Using Salt to Optimize Mental & Physical Performance

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。

I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

Today we are going to discuss salt, also referred to as sodium.

今天我们要讨论的是盐，也称为钠。

Most of us think of salt as something that we put on and in our food, maybe something to avoid, maybe some of you are actually trying to get more salt, some of you are trying to get less salt.

我们大多数人都认为盐是我们放在食物中的东西，也许是需要避免的东西，也许你们中的一些人实际上试图摄入更多的盐，而有些人则试图摄入更少的盐。

We all seem to associate salt with things like blood pressure, et cetera.

我们似乎都将盐与血压等联系在一起。

Today we are going to go down a different set of avenues related to salt.

今天我们将探讨与盐有关的另一条途径。

We will certainly cover how salt regulates blood pressure, we are also going to talk about how the brain regulates our appetite for salt or our aversion for salt.

我们肯定会讨论盐如何调节血压，我们还将讨论大脑如何调节我们对盐的食欲或对盐的厌恶。

We are also going to talk about how our sensing of salty tastes actually mediates how much sugar we crave and whether or not we ingest more or less sugar than we actually need.

我们还将讨论我们对咸味的感觉实际上如何调节我们渴望多少糖，以及我们摄入的糖是否比我们实际需要的多或少。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So what you're going to learn today is that the so-called salt system, meaning the cells and connections in our brain and body that mediate salt craving and avoidance, are regulating many aspects of our health and our ability to perform in various contexts.

因此，您今天要了解的是所谓的盐系统，即我们大脑和身体中调节盐渴望和避免盐的细胞和连接，正在调节我们健康的许多方面以及我们在各种情况下的表现能力。

Things like athletic performance, things like cognitive performance.

比如运动表现，比如认知表现。

We're also going to talk about aging and dementia and avoiding aging and dementia, and what role salt and salt avoidance might play in that.

我们还将讨论衰老和痴呆症以及避免衰老和痴呆症，以及盐和避免盐在其中可能发挥的作用。

We're going to touch on some themes that for some of you might seem controversial, and indeed, if they are controversial, I'll be sure to highlight them as such.

我们将讨论一些主题，对于你们中的一些人来说可能看起来有争议，事实上，如果它们有争议，我一定会强调它们。

I'm going to cover a lot of new data that point to the possibility, I want to emphasize the "possibility," that for some people, more salt might help them in terms of health, cognitive and bodily functioning.

我将介绍许多指向这种可能性的新数据，我想强调“可能性”，即对于某些人来说，更多的盐可能对他们的健康、认知和身体功能有帮助。

And for other people, less salt is going to be better.

对于其他人来说，少盐会更好。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm going to talk about what the various parameters are.

我来谈谈各个参数是什么。

I'm going to give you some guidelines that, in concert with your physician, who you should absolutely talk to before adding or changing anything to your diet or supplementation regime, can help you arrive at salt intake that's going to optimize your mental, physical health and performance.

我将为您提供一些指导原则，在添加或改变您的饮食或补充剂方案之前，您绝对应该咨询您的医生，这些指导原则可以帮助您达到盐的摄入量，从而优化您的心理、身体健康和表现。

So we're going to cover neurobiology, we're going to cover hormone biology, we're going to talk about liver function, we're going to talk about kidney function, and of course, brain function.

所以我们将讨论神经生物学，我们将讨论激素生物学，我们将讨论肝功能，我们将讨论肾功能，当然还有大脑功能。

I'm excited to share this information with you today.

我很高兴今天与您分享这些信息。

I'm certain you're going to come away with a lot of information and actionable items.

我确信您会得到大量信息和可操作的项目。

Before we dive into the topic of today's episode, I want to highlight a really exciting new study.

在我们深入探讨今天这一集的主题之前，我想强调一项非常令人兴奋的新研究。

This is a study from Diego Bohórquez' lab at Duke University.

这是杜克大学迭戈·博霍尔克斯实验室的一项研究。

The Bohórquez Lab studies interactions between the gut and the brain and has made some incredible discoveries of the so-called neuropod cells.

博霍尔克斯实验室研究肠道和大脑之间的相互作用，并对所谓的神经足细胞做出了一些令人难以置信的发现。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Neuropod cells are neurons, nerve cells, that reside in our gut and that detect things like fatty acids, amino acids — and some neuropod cells sense sugar.

神经足细胞是神经元，神经细胞，存在于我们的肠道中，可以检测脂肪酸、氨基酸等物质，并且一些神经足细胞可以感知糖。

Previous work from this laboratory has shown that when we ingest sugar, these neuropod cells respond to that sugar and send electrical signals up a little wire that we call an axon, through the vagus nerve, for those of you that want to know, and into the brain.

该实验室之前的研究表明，当我们摄入糖时，这些神经足细胞会对糖做出反应，并通过一根我们称之为轴突的小电线，通过迷走神经，将电信号发送到大脑。

And through subsequent stations of neural processing evoke the release of dopamine.

并通过随后的神经处理站激发多巴胺的释放。

Dopamine is a molecule known to promote craving and motivation and, indeed, action.

多巴胺是一种已知能促进渴望和动机，甚至行动的分子。

And what these neuropod cells that send sugar are thought to do is to promote seeking and consumption, eating, of more sugary foods.

人们认为这些发送糖分的神经足细胞的作用是促进寻找和消费、食用更多含糖食物。

Now, the incredible thing is that it's all subconscious.

现在，令人难以置信的是，这一切都是潜意识的。

This is a taste system in the gut that is not available to your conscious awareness.

这是肠道中的味觉系统，您的意识无法感知到。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now of course, when you ingest sweet foods, you taste them on your mouth too.

当然，当你吃甜食时，你也会在嘴里尝到它们的味道。

And so part of the reason that you crave sweet foods perhaps is because they taste good to you and the other reason is that these neuropod cells are driving a chemical craving below your conscious detection.

因此，你渴望甜食的部分原因可能是因为它们对你来说味道很好，另一个原因是这些神经足细胞在你的意识察觉不到的情况下驱动着化学渴望。

So there are really two systems.

所以实际上有两个系统。

Your gut is sensing at a subconscious level what's in it and sending signals to your brain that work in concert, in parallel, with the signals coming from your mouth and your experience of the taste of the food.

您的肠道在潜意识层面感知其中的内容，并向您的大脑发送信号，这些信号与来自您口腔的信号以及您对食物味道的体验同时协同工作。

Now, that alone is incredible and has been the subject of many important landmark papers over the last decade or so.

现在，仅此一项就令人难以置信，并成为过去十年左右许多重要里程碑论文的主题。

You can imagine how the system would be very important for things like hidden sugars, when nowadays in a lot of processed foods, they're putting hidden sugars, they're putting a lot of things that cause your gut to send signals to your brain that make you crave more of those foods.

你可以想象这个系统对于像隐藏糖这样的东西非常重要，现在在很多加工食品中，他们都添加了隐藏糖，他们添加了很多东西，这些东西会导致你的肠道向你的大脑发送信号，让你渴望更多这些食物。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So for those of you that really love sugar, just understand it's not just about how that sugar tastes.

因此，对于那些真正喜欢糖的人来说，只要明白这不仅仅是糖的味道如何。

The new study from the Bohórquez Lab deserves attention, I believe.

我认为，博霍尔克斯实验室的新研究值得关注。

This is a paper published just recently, February 25th, this year, 2022, in Nature Neuroscience, an excellent journal, and the title of the paper is "The preference for sugar over sweetener depends on a gut sensor cell." The Bohórquez lab has now discovered a neuropod cell, meaning a category of neurons, that can distinguish between sweet things in the gut that contain calories — for instance sugar — and things in the gut that are sweet but do not contain calories — artificial sweeteners like aspartame, sucralose, and so forth.

这是最近，今年2022年2月25日，发表在优秀期刊《自然神经科学》上的一篇论文，论文标题是“对糖而非甜味剂的偏好取决于肠道传感器细胞”。 Bohórquez 实验室现在发现了一种神经足细胞，即一类神经元，它可以区分肠道中含有卡路里的甜食（例如糖）和肠道中的甜味但不含卡路里的食物（人造甜味剂，如阿斯巴甜、三氯蔗糖等）。

There are also, of course, nonartificial, noncaloric sweeteners like stevia, monkfruit, et cetera.

当然，还有非人造、无热量的甜味剂，如甜叶菊、蒙克果等。

They did not explore the full gallery of artificial sweeteners.

他们没有探索完整的人造甜味剂库。

What they did find, however, ought to pertain to all forms of sweet noncaloric substances.

然而，他们确实发现的应该涉及所有形式的甜味无热量物质。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What they discovered was that there is a signature pattern of signals sent from the gut to the brain when we ingest artificial or noncaloric sweeteners.

他们发现，当我们摄入人造或无热量甜味剂时，从肠道发送到大脑的信号存在一种特征模式。

This is important because what it says is that at a subconscious level, the gut can distinguish between sweet things that contain calories and sweet things that do not.

这很重要，因为它所说的是，在潜意识水平上，肠道可以区分含有卡路里的甜食和不含卡路里的甜食。

Now, what the downstream consequences of this sensing is or what they are isn't yet clear.

现在，这种感知的下游后果是什么或它们是什么尚不清楚。

Now, I believe everyone should be aware of these kinds of studies for a couple of reasons.

现在，我相信每个人都应该了解此类研究，原因有几个。

First of all, it's important to understand that what you crave, meaning the foods you crave and the drinks you crave, is in part due to your conscious experience of the taste of those things, but also due to biochemical and neural events that start in the body and impinge on your brain and cause you to seek out certain things even though you might not know why you're seeking out more sugar.

首先，重要的是要明白，你渴望的东西，即你渴望的食物和你渴望的饮料，部分是由于你对这些东西味道的有意识体验，但也是由于身体中开始的生化和神经事件影响你的大脑，导致你寻找某些东西，即使你可能不知道为什么你要寻找更多的糖。

You find that you're craving a lot of sugar or you're craving a lot of foods with artificial sweeteners, and you don't necessarily know why.

您发现自己想吃很多糖，或者想吃很多含有人造甜味剂的食物，但您不一定知道原因。

Now, artificial sweeteners themselves are a somewhat controversial topic.

现在，人工甜味剂本身是一个颇具争议的话题。

I want to highlight that.

我想强调这一点。

Some months back, I described a study from Yale University about how one can condition the insulin system.

几个月前，我描述了耶鲁大学的一项关于如何调节胰岛素系统的研究。

Insulin is involved in mobilizing of blood sugar, and so forth, in the body, as many of you know, and I described some studies that were done from Yale University School of Medicine looking at how artificial sweeteners can actually evoke an insulin response under certain conditions.

正如你们许多人所知，胰岛素参与体内血糖的调动等，我描述了耶鲁大学医学院进行的一些研究，研究人工甜味剂如何在某些条件下实际上引起胰岛素反应。

Now, a couple of key things.

现在，有一些关键的事情。

I got a little bit of pushback after covering those studies, and I encourage pushback all the time.

在报道这些研究后，我遇到了一些阻力，但我一直鼓励阻力。

Pushback is one of those things that forces all of us to drill deeper into a topic.

阻力是迫使我们所有人深入研究某个主题的因素之一。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I want to be clear, first of all, I am not one to demonize artificial sweeteners.

我想澄清的是，首先，我并不是妖魔化人工甜味剂的人。

There is evidence in animal models that artificial sweeteners can disrupt the gut microbiome, but those were fairly high doses of artificial sweeteners, and it's unclear if the same thing pertains to humans.

动物模型中有证据表明，人工甜味剂会破坏肠道微生物群，但这些人工甜味剂的剂量相当高，目前还不清楚同样的情况是否适用于人类。

Still unclear; I should say has not been investigated thoroughly.

仍不清楚；应该说还没有调查彻底。

Some people don't like the taste of artificial sweeteners, some people do.

有些人不喜欢人工甜味剂的味道，有些人喜欢。

Some people find that they really help them avoid excessive caloric intake.

有些人发现它们确实可以帮助他们避免过多的热量摄入。

Some people believe, and yet I should emphasize there still isn't evidence, that they can adjust the insulin response in all people.

有些人相信，但我应该强调，仍然没有证据表明它们可以调整所有人的胰岛素反应。

I just want to repeat that three times so that people are clear on that fact.

我只想重复三遍，以便人们清楚这一事实。

What these new data emphasize, however, is that we need to understand how artificial sweeteners are consumed at the level of the gut, or I should say registered at the level of the gut and how that changes brain function.

然而，这些新数据强调的是，我们需要了解人造甜味剂是如何在肠道水平上被消耗的，或者我应该说是在肠道水平上记录的，以及它如何改变大脑功能。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because one thing that I'm familiar with and that many people report is that when they first taste artificial sweeteners, they taste sort of not right to them.

因为我熟悉并且许多人报告的一件事是，当他们第一次品尝人造甜味剂时，他们的味道有点不对劲。

They don't like the taste, but over time, they actually start to crave that taste.

他们不喜欢这种味道，但随着时间的推移，他们实际上开始渴望那种味道。

I've experienced this.

我有过这样的经历。

I used to drink a lot of diet sodas when I was in graduate school, so this would be aspartame and I found that I actually needed them.

我在读研究生时曾经喝过很多无糖汽水，所以这就是阿斯巴甜，我发现我确实需要它们。

Now, maybe it was the caffeine, maybe I just like the sweet taste or the carbonation.

现在，也许是咖啡因，也许我只是喜欢甜味或碳酸化。

We actually have a drive for carbonation, which is a topic of a future episode.

我们实际上有碳酸化的动力，这是未来剧集的主题。

But when I finally quit them for reasons that were independent of any fear of artificial sweeteners, I found that I didn't like the taste.

但当我最终出于与对人造甜味剂的恐惧无关的原因戒掉它们时，我发现我不喜欢这种味道。

Nowadays, I only occasionally drink a diet soda.

现在，我只是偶尔喝无糖汽水。

I usually do that if I'm on a plane and there's nothing else available to me.

如果我在飞机上并且没有其他可用的时间，我通常会这样做。

So I don't demonize them.

所以我不会妖魔化他们。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I might drink one every once in a while, no big deal.

偶尔喝一瓶也没什么大不了的。

I also want to be clear, I consume stevia on a number of different supplements and foods that I consume.

我还想澄清的是，我在许多不同的补充剂和食物中摄入甜叶菊。

Stevia, of course, is a plant-based noncaloric sweetener.

当然，甜叶菊是一种植物性无热量甜味剂。

So I myself consume artificial sweeteners.

所以我自己食用人造甜味剂。

Many people hate them, many people like them and find them useful for their nutrition and, in fact, to keep their caloric intake in a range that's right for them.

许多人讨厌它们，许多人喜欢它们，并发现它们对营养很有用，事实上，可以将热量摄入保持在适合他们的范围内。

And many people like myself are curious about them and somewhat wary of them and yet continue to consume them in small amounts.

许多像我这样的人对它们感到好奇，并对它们有些警惕，但仍然少量食用它们。

I think most people probably fall into that category.

我想大多数人可能都属于这一类。

I should also mention that many food manufacturers put artificial sweeteners, such as sucralose, et cetera into foods, and it's always been unclear as to why they might want to do that.

我还应该提到，许多食品制造商在食品中添加了人工甜味剂，例如三氯蔗糖等，但一直不清楚他们为什么要这样做。

And yet we know that the sweet taste consumption, even if it doesn't contain calories, can drive more craving of sweet foods.

然而我们知道，甜味的消费，即使不含热量，也会引发更多对甜食的渴望。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So there may be a logic or a strategy to why they do that.

所以他们这样做可能有逻辑或策略。

Again, a topic for exploration on today's podcast and in future podcasts because where we're headed today is a discussion about how salt and salt sensing, both consciously and unconsciously can adjust our craving for other things like sugar and water, and so on.

再次，这是今天和未来播客的探索主题，因为我们今天的主题是讨论盐和盐感知如何有意识和无意识地调整我们对糖和水等其他事物的渴望。

So I want to highlight this beautiful work from the Bohórquez Lab.

所以我想重点介绍 Bohórquez 实验室的这项精美作品。

I will put a link to the study.

我将放置该研究的链接。

I want to open this as a chapter for further exploration.

我想以此作为进一步探索的一章。

I like to think that the listeners of this podcast are looking for answers where we have answers, but are also, I would hope, excited about some of the new and emerging themes in what we call nutritional neurobiology.

我喜欢认为这个播客的听众正在寻找我们有答案的答案，但我希望，他们也对我们所谓的营养神经生物学中的一些新的和正在出现的主题感到兴奋。

And indeed, the Bohórquez Lab really stands as one of the premier laboratories out there that's looking at how foods as consumed in the gut are modifying our nervous system, the foods we crave and how we utilize those foods.

事实上，博霍尔克斯实验室确实是最重要的实验室之一，致力于研究肠道中消耗的食物如何改变我们的神经系统、我们渴望的食物以及我们如何利用这些食物。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。

In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。

Today's episode is also brought to us by LMNT.

今天的节目也是LMNT给我们带来的。

LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and none of the things you don't.

LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，它拥有您需要的一切，也没有您不需要的东西。

That means it has salt, magnesium and potassium, so-called electrolytes which are critical for neuronal function and a lot of other biological functions.

这意味着它含有盐、镁和钾，即所谓的电解质，对神经元功能和许多其他生物功能至关重要。

As I mentioned on the podcast before, I'm a fan of salt.

正如我之前在播客中提到的，我是盐的粉丝。

I believe in ingesting appropriate amounts of salt.

我相信摄入适量的盐。

And by appropriate, I mean depending on what your background blood pressure happens to be, what your activity levels are, how much you sweat, what your cognitive and physical demands are.

我所说的适当，是指取决于您的背景血压、您的活动水平、出汗量、您的认知和身体需求。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Today we're going to talk about how to determine what those needs are.

今天我们将讨论如何确定这些需求是什么。

I'm always trying to stay on top of my hydration.

我总是努力保持水分充足。

And as you'll also learn about today, salt and water intake and hydration are intimately related.

正如您今天还将了解到的那样，盐和水的摄入量与水合作用密切相关。

With LMNT, I'm sure to get the potassium, the sodium, and the magnesium that I need.

通过 LMNT，我一定能获得所需的钾、钠和镁。

And I do that in a great-tasting drink.

我在一杯美味的饮料中做到了这一点。

And as I mentioned before, it has no sugar.

正如我之前提到的，它不含糖。

If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com.

如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com。

That's drinklmnt.com/huberman, to claim a free LMNT sample pack.

请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman，索取免费的 LMNT 样品包。

You only cover the cost of shipping, otherwise it's completely free.

您只需支付运费，否则完全免费。

Again, that's drinklmnt, lmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack of element.

再次强调，请通过 Drinklmnt、lmnt.com/huberman 索取免费的元素样品包。

Okay, let's talk about salt.

好吧，我们来谈谈盐。

Salt has many important functions in the brain and body.

盐在大脑和身体中具有许多重要的功能。

For instance, it regulates fluid balance, how much fluid you desire and how much fluid you excrete.

例如，它调节液体平衡、您想要多少液体以及您排出多少液体。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It also regulates your desire for salt itself, meaning your salt appetite.

它还调节您对盐本身的渴望，即您的盐食欲。

You have a homeostatically driven salt appetite.

您的盐食欲是由体内平衡驱动的。

I'll talk about the mechanisms today, make them all very clear.

我今天就讲一下这个机制，把它讲得很清楚。

What that means is that you crave salty things, beverages and foods, when your salt stores are low, and you tend to avoid salty beverages and foods when your salt stores are high, although that's not always the case.

这意味着，当你的盐储存量较低时，你会渴望咸味的食物、饮料和食物，而当你的盐储存量较高时，你往往会避免咸味的饮料和食物，尽管情况并非总是如此。

There are circumstances where you'll continue to crave salt even though you don't need salt, or indeed, even if you need to eliminate salt from your system.

在某些情况下，即使您不需要盐，或者实际上，即使您需要从体内消除盐，您仍会继续渴望盐。

Salt also regulates your appetite for other nutrients, things like sugar, things like carbohydrates.

盐还可以调节您对其他营养素的食欲，例如糖、碳水化合物等。

And today, we'll explore all of that.

今天，我们将探讨这一切。

Technically, salt is a mineral, and I should mention that when I say salt, I am indeed referring to sodium in most cases, although I will be clear to distinguish salt from sodium, meaning table salt from sodium.

从技术上讲，盐是一种矿物质，我应该提到，当我说盐时，在大多数情况下我确实指的是钠，尽管我会清楚地区分盐和钠，即食盐和钠。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Most people don't realize this, but one gram of table salt contains about 388 milligrams of sodium.

大多数人没有意识到这一点，一克食盐含有约 388 毫克钠。

So technically we should be talking about sodium today and not salt.

所以从技术上讲，我们今天应该谈论钠而不是盐。

I will use them interchangeably unless I'm referring to some specific recommendations or ideas about trying to define your ideal salt aka sodium intake.

我将互换使用它们，除非我指的是一些关于尝试定义理想盐（又称钠）摄入量的具体建议或想法。

Okay, so this is important.

好的，所以这很重要。

I think right off the bat, a lot of people get themselves into a place of confusion and potentially even to a place of trouble by thinking that table salt in grams always equates to sodium in grams, and that's simply not the case.

我认为，很多人一开始就陷入了困惑，甚至可能陷入麻烦，因为他们认为以克为单位的食盐总是等于以克为单位的钠，但事实并非如此。

Today, we're going to explore the neural mechanisms by which we regulate our salt appetite and the way that the brain and body interact in the context of salt seeking, salt avoidance, how to determine when we need more salt, when we need less salt.

今天，我们将探讨调节盐食欲的神经机制，以及在寻盐、避盐的背景下大脑和身体相互作用的方式，如何确定何时需要更多的盐，何时需要更少的盐。

We'll talk about kidney function.

我们来谈谈肾功能。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We'll get into all of it, and we're going to do it very systematically.

我们将深入研究所有这一切，并且我们将非常系统地进行。

So let's start in the brain.

那么让我们从大脑开始。

We all harbor small sets of neurons — we call these sets of neurons nuclei, meaning little clusters of neurons — that sense the levels of salt in our brain and body.

我们都拥有一小组神经元——我们将这些神经元组称为细胞核，意思是小神经元簇——感知我们大脑和身体中的盐分水平。

There are a couple brain regions that do this, and these brain regions are very special because they lack biological fences around them that other brain areas have.

有几个大脑区域可以做到这一点，这些大脑区域非常特殊，因为它们周围缺乏其他大脑区域所具有的生物围栏。

And those fences, or I should say that fence, goes by a particular name, and that name is the blood brain barrier, or BBB.

这些栅栏，或者我应该说栅栏，有一个特定的名称，这个名称就是血脑屏障，或 BBB。

Most substances that are circulating around in your body do not have access to the brain.

大多数在体内循环的物质无法进入大脑。

In particular, large molecules can't just pass into the brain.

特别是大分子不能直接进入大脑。

The brain is a privileged organ in this sense.

从这个意义上说，大脑是一个享有特权的器官。

There are a couple other organs that are privileged and that have very strict barriers, very particular fences, if you will.

还有一些其他机构享有特权，并且有非常严格的障碍，如果你愿意的话，可以说有非常特殊的栅栏。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And those other organs include things like the ovaries and testes, and that makes sense for the following reason.

这些其他器官包括卵巢和睾丸等，这是有道理的，原因如下。

First of all, the brain, at least most of the brain, cannot regenerate after injury.

首先，大脑，至少是大部分大脑，受伤后无法再生。

You just simply can't replace brain cells after injury.

受伤后你根本无法更换脑细胞。

I know people get really excited about neurogenesis, the birth of new neurons.

我知道人们对神经发生、新神经元的诞生感到非常兴奋。

And indeed, neurogenesis has been demonstrated in animal models, and to some extent it exists in humans in a few places, for instance, the olfactory bulb, where neurons are responsible for detecting odorants in the environment, for smell that is, and in a little subregion of the hippocampus, a memory area, there's probably some neurogenesis, but the bulk of really good data out there point to the fact that in humans, there's not much turnover of neurons.

事实上，神经发生已经在动物模型中得到证实，并且在某种程度上它存在于人类的几个地方，例如嗅球，其中神经元负责检测环境中的气味，即气味，在海马体的一个小分区（记忆区域）中，可能存在一些神经发生，但大量真正好的数据表明，在人类中，神经元的周转并不多。

What that means is that the neurons you're born with are the ones that you're going to be using most, if not all of your life.

这意味着，你与生俱来的神经元是你一生中使用最多的神经元，甚至是一生中使用最多的神经元。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In fact, you're born with many more neurons than you'll have later.

事实上，你生来就有比以后更多的神经元。

And there's a process of naturally occurring cell death called apoptosis that occurs during development.

在发育过程中，有一个自然发生的细胞死亡过程，称为细胞凋亡。

So you actually are born with many more neurons than you have later in life, and that's the reflection of a normal healthy process of nerve cell elimination.

所以，你出生时的神经元数量实际上比以后的生活要多得多，这是神经细胞消除的正常健康过程的反映。

So the estimates vary, but anywhere from a third to maybe even half or even two-thirds of neurons, depending on the brain area, are just going to die across development.

因此，估计有所不同，但根据大脑区域的不同，三分之一到一半甚至三分之二的神经元都会在发育过程中死亡。

That might sound terrible, but that's actually one of the ways in which you go from being kind of like a little potato bug flopping around helplessly in your crib to being an organism that can walk and talk and articulate and calculate math, or do whatever it is that you do for a living.

这听起来可能很糟糕，但这实际上是你从一个像一只在婴儿床上无助地扑腾的小土豆虫，变成一个可以走路、说话、表达和计算数学，或者做任何你为生的事情的有机体的方法之一。

So the brain has a set of elements, these nerve cells and other cells, and it needs to use those for the entire lifespan.

因此，大脑有一组元素，这些神经细胞和其他细胞，并且需要在整个生命周期中使用这些元素。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So having a BBB, a blood brain barrier around the brain is absolutely critical.

因此，拥有 BBB（大脑周围的血脑屏障）绝对至关重要。

The ovaries and testes have a barrier for, we assume, the reason that they contain the genetic material by which we can pass on our genes to our offspring, progeny — meaning make children — and those children will have our genes, or at least half of them, the other half from the partner, of course.

我们认为，卵巢和睾丸有一个障碍，因为它们含有遗传物质，我们可以通过这些遗传物质将我们的基因传递给我们的后代，即生下孩子，而这些孩子将拥有我们的基因，或者至少一半，当然，另一半来自伴侣。

If the cells within the ovaries and testes are mutated, well then you can get mutations in offspring.

如果卵巢和睾丸内的细胞发生突变，那么您的后代就会发生突变。

So, that's very costly in the evolutionary sense.

所以，从进化的角度来看，这是非常昂贵的。

So it makes sense that you would have a barrier from the blood.

因此，您存在血液屏障是有道理的。

So if you ingest what's called a mutagen, if you ingest something that can mutate the genes of cells, you can imagine why there would be a premium on not allowing those mutagens to get into the brain, the ovaries or the testes.

因此，如果你摄入所谓的诱变剂，如果你摄入一些可以使细胞基因突变的东西，你可以想象为什么不允许这些诱变剂进入大脑、卵巢或睾丸会产生额外费用。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay?

好吧？

So the brain has this BBB, this blood brain barrier around it, which makes it very hard for substances to pass into the brain unless those substances are very small or those substances and molecules are critically required for brain function.

因此，大脑周围有血脑屏障，即血脑屏障，这使得物质很难进入大脑，除非这些物质非常小，或者这些物质和分子是大脑功能所必需的。

However, there are a couple of regions in the brain that have a fence around them, but that fence is weaker, okay?

然而，大脑中有几个区域周围有栅栏，但栅栏较弱，好吗？

It's sort of like going from a really big wall, thick, electronic, 24-hour surveillance fence, where nothing can pass through except only the exclusive cargo that's allowed to go through to having a little cyclone fence with a couple holes in it, or it's a kind of a picket fence that's falling over, and substances can move freely in from the blood circulating in the body into the brain.

这有点像从一堵非常大的墙，厚厚的电子24小时监控栅栏，除了允许通过的专有货物之外，没有任何东西可以通过，到有一个带有几个孔的小旋风栅栏，或者它是一种正在倒塌的尖桩栅栏，物质可以自由地从体内循环的血液进入大脑。

And it turns out that the areas of the brain that monitor salt balance and other features of what's happening in the body at the level of what we call osmolarity, at the concentration of salt, reside in these little sets of neurons that sit just on the other side of these weak fences.

事实证明，大脑中负责监测盐平衡和体内发生的其他特征的区域，即我们所说的渗透压水平（即盐浓度），就位于这些薄弱栅栏另一侧的小组神经元中。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And the most important and famous of these, for sake of today's conversation, is one called OVLT.

为了今天的讨论，其中最重要和最著名的是 OVLT。

OVLT stands for the organum vasculosum of the lateral terminalis.

OVLT 代表侧终末血管器。

It is what's called a circumventricular organ.

这就是所谓的室周器官。

Why circumventricular?

为什么是室周？

Well, not to bog you down with neuroanatomy, but your brain is a big squishy mass of neurons and other cell types, but it has to be nourished.

好吧，并不是要让你陷入神经解剖学的困境，但你的大脑是一大堆柔软的神经元和其他细胞类型，但它必须得到滋养。

And through the middle of that brain, there is a tube.

大脑的中间有一根管子。

There's a hollow that creates spaces, and those spaces are called ventricles.

有一个空洞创造了空间，这些空间称为心室。

The ventricles are spaces in which cerebral spinal fluid circulates, and it nourishes the brain.

脑室是脑脊液循环的空间，它为大脑提供营养。

It does a number of other things as well.

它还可以做一些其他的事情。

The circumventricular organs are areas of the brain that are near that circulating fluid, and that circulating fluid has access to the bloodstream and the bloodstream has access to it.

室周器官是大脑中靠近循环液的区域，循环液可以进入血流，而血流也可以进入循环液。

And this structure that I'm referring to, OVLT, organ vasculosum of the lateral terminalis, has neurons that can sense the contents of the blood and to some extent the cerebral spinal fluid.

我所指的这种结构，OVLT，即侧终末血管器官，具有可以感知血液内容物以及在某种程度上感知脑脊液内容物的神经元。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There are a couple other brain areas that can do this as well.

还有其他几个大脑区域也可以做到这一点。

They go also by the name of circumventricular organs, and I'll talk about the names of some of those other areas, but for today, and I think for sake of most of the discussion, understand that the OVLT is special.

它们也被称为室周器官，我将讨论其中一些其他区域的名称，但今天，我认为为了大多数讨论的目的，请理解 OVLT 是特殊的。

Why?

为什么？

Because it doesn't have this thick barrier fence, which sounds like a bad thing, and yet it's a terrific border detector.

因为它没有厚厚的栅栏，这听起来像是一件坏事，但它是一个很棒的边境探测器。

The neurons in that region are able to pay attention to what's passing through in the bloodstream and can detect, for instance, if the levels of sodium in the bloodstream are too low, if the level of blood pressure in the body is too low or too high, and then the OVLT can send signals to other brain areas.

该区域的神经元能够关注血液中流经的情况，并且可以检测血液中的钠含量是否过低、体内的血压水平是否过低或过高，然后 OVLT 可以向其他大脑区域发送信号。

And then those other brain areas can do things like release hormones that can go and act on tissues in what we call the periphery in the body.

然后其他大脑区域可以做一些事情，比如释放激素，这些激素可以作用于我们所谓的身体外围组织。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And for instance, have the kidneys secrete more urine to get rid of excessive salt in the body, or have the kidneys hold on to urine to hold on whatever water or fluid that one might need.

例如，让肾脏分泌更多的尿液来排出体内过多的盐，或者让肾脏保留尿液以保留人们可能需要的任何水或液体。

So before I go any deeper into this pathway, just understand that the OVLT has a very limited barrier.

因此，在我深入探讨这条途径之前，请先了解 OVLT 的障碍非常有限。

It can detect things in the bloodstream.

它可以检测血液中的物质。

And this incredible area of the brain almost single-handedly sets off the cascades of things that allow you to regulate your salt balance, which turns out to be absolutely critical, not just for your ability to think and for your neurons to work, but indeed for all of life.

大脑的这个令人难以置信的区域几乎单枪匹马地引发了一系列的事情，让你能够调节你的盐平衡，事实证明，这绝对是至关重要的，不仅对你的思考能力和神经元的工作能力，而且对整个生命来说都是如此。

If the OVLT doesn't function correctly, you're effectively dead or dead soon.

如果 OVLT 无法正常工作，您实际上已经死亡或很快就会死亡。

So this is a very important brain region.

所以这是一个非常重要的大脑区域。

So let's talk about the function of the OVLT and flesh out some of the other aspects of its circuitry, of its communication with other brain areas and with the body in the context of something that we are all familiar with, which is thirst.

因此，让我们谈谈 OVLT 的功能，并以我们都熟悉的口渴为背景，充实其电路的其他一些方面，以及它与其他大脑区域和身体的通信。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Have you ever wondered just why you get thirsty?

你有没有想过你为什么会口渴？

Well, it's because neurons in your OVLT are detecting changes in your bloodstream, which detect global changes within your body.

嗯，这是因为 OVLT 中的神经元正在检测您血液中的变化，从而检测您体内的整体变化。

And in response to that, your OVLT sets off certain events within your brain and body that make you either want to drink more fluid or just stop drinking fluid.

作为回应，您的 OVLT 会在您的大脑和身体内引发某些事件，使您要么想要喝更多的液体，要么干脆停止喝液体。

There are two main kinds of thirst.

口渴主要有两种。

The first one is called osmotic thirst, and the second is called hypovolemic thirst.

第一种称为渗透性口渴，第二种称为低血容量性口渴。

Osmotic thirst has to do with a concentration of salt in your bloodstream.

渗透性口渴与血液中盐的浓度有关。

So let's say you ingest something very salty.

假设您摄入了非常咸的东西。

Let's say you ingest a big bag of ...

假设您吞下一大袋...

I confess, I don't eat these very often, but I really like those kettle potato chips, and they're pretty salty.

我承认，我不常吃这些，但我真的很喜欢那些水壶薯片，而且它们很咸。

I've never actually measured how much sodium is in them.

我从来没有真正测量过其中含有多少钠。

I'm sure the information is there.

我确信信息就在那里。

Every once in a while, if I'm particularly interested in doing so, I'll just down a bag of those things.

每隔一段时间，如果我特别感兴趣的话，我就会放下一袋这些东西。

And I really like them, and they're very salty, but they almost always make me feel thirsty.

我真的很喜欢它们，它们很咸，但它们几乎总是让我感到口渴。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And the reason is that by eating those, I've ingested a lot of sodium.

原因是通过吃这些，我摄入了大量的钠。

Again, not a frequent occurrence for me, but happens every now and again.

同样，这对我来说不是经常发生，但时不时会发生。

And I don't have too much shame about that because I think I have a pretty healthy relationship to food and I enjoy them, and I understand that it will drive salt levels up in my bloodstream, and that will cause me to be thirsty, but why?

我对此并没有太多的羞愧，因为我认为我与食物有非常健康的关系，我喜欢它们，而且我知道它会提高我血液中的盐含量，这会导致我口渴，但为什么呢？

Because neurons in the OVLT come in two main varieties, one variety senses the osmolarity of the blood that's getting across that weak little fence that we talked about before.

因为 OVLT 中的神经元有两种主要类型，其中一种可以感知穿过我们之前讨论过的那道薄弱小栅栏的血液渗透压。

And when the osmolarity, meaning the salt concentration of the blood is high, it activates these specific neurons in the OVLT.

当渗透压（即血液中的盐浓度）较高时，它会激活 OVLT 中的这些特定神经元。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And by activates, I mean it causes them to send electrical potentials, literally send electrical signals to other brain areas and those other brain areas inspire a number of different downstream events.

我所说的激活，是指它使它们发送电势，实际上是向其他大脑区域发送电信号，而这些其他大脑区域激发了许多不同的下游事件。

So what are those other brain areas?

那么其他大脑区域是什么呢？

Well, the OVLT signals to an area called the supraoptic nucleus.

OVLT 向称为视上核的区域发出信号。

The name and why it's called the supraoptic nucleus is not necessarily important.

视上核的名称及其为何被称为视上核并不一定重要。

It also signals to the so-called paraventricular nucleus, another nucleus that sits near the ventricles and can monitor the qualities, the chemical qualities of the cerebral spinal fluid, as well as probably the bloodstream as well.

它还向所谓的室旁核发出信号，室旁核是位于心室附近的另一个核，可以监测脑脊液的质量、化学质量，也可能监测血流。

And the consequence of that communication is that a particular hormone is eventually released from the posterior pituitary.

这种交流的结果是，一种特定的激素最终从垂体后叶释放出来。

Now, the pituitary is a gland that sits near the roof of your mouth.

现在，垂体是一个位于口腔顶部附近的腺体。

It releases all sorts of things like growth hormone and luteinizing hormone.

它释放各种物质，如生长激素和黄体生成素。

Luteinizing hormone will stimulate things like estrogen and testosterone production and release from the ovaries and testes, and so on.

黄体生成素会刺激卵巢和睾丸产生和释放雌激素和睾酮等物质。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The pituitary has a bunch of different compartments and functions, but what's really cool about the pituitary is that certain regions of the pituitary actually contain the axons, the wires of neurons, and the neurons reside in the brain.

垂体有许多不同的区室和功能，但垂体真正酷的是，垂体的某些区域实际上包含轴突、神经元线，而神经元驻留在大脑中。

And so the supraoptic nucleus gets a signal from the OVLT.

因此，视上核从 OVLT 获取信号。

The signal is purely in the form of electrical activity.

该信号纯粹是电活动的形式。

Remember, neurons aren't talking in one another about what's happening out there.

请记住，神经元不会相互谈论外面发生的事情。

They're not saying, "Psst, hey, there's too much salt in the bloodstream.

他们并不是说：“嘿，血液中的盐分太多了。

Let's do something about it." All they receive are so-called action potential, waves of electricity.

让我们做点什么吧。”他们接收到的只是所谓的动作电位，即电波。

The neurons in the supraoptic nucleus then release their own electrical signals within the pituitary, and some of those neurons and nearby neurons are capable of releasing hormones as well as electrical signals.

然后，视上核中的神经元在垂体内释放自己的电信号，其中一些神经元和附近的神经元能够释放激素和电信号。

So from the pituitary, there's a hormonal signal that's released called vasopressin.

因此，垂体会释放一种称为加压素的激素信号。

Vasopressin also goes by the name antidiuretic hormone, and antidiuretic hormone has the capacity to either restrict the amount of urine that we secrete, or when that system is turned off, to increase the amount of urine that we secrete.

加压素也被称为抗利尿激素，抗利尿激素能够限制我们分泌的尿液量，或者当该系统关闭时，增加我们分泌的尿液量。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So there's a complicated set of cascades that's evoked by having high salt concentration in the blood.

因此，血液中高盐浓度会引发一系列复杂的级联反应。

There's also a complicated set of cascades that are evoked by having low concentrations of sodium in the blood, but the pathway is nonetheless the same.

血液中钠浓度低也会引发一系列复杂的级联反应，但途径仍然相同。

It's OVLT is detecting those osmolarity changes, communicating to the supraoptic nucleus.

OVLT 正在检测这些渗透压的变化，并与视上核进行通信。

Supraoptic nucleus is either causing the release of or is releasing vasopressin, antidiuretic hormone, or that system is shut off so that the antidiuretic hormone is not secreted, which would allow urine to flow more freely, right?

视上核要么引起抗利尿激素的释放，要么正在释放抗利尿激素，或者该系统被关闭，从而不分泌抗利尿激素，这将使尿液更自由地流动，对吗？

Antidiuretic means anti release of urine, and by shutting that off, you are going to cause the release of urine.

抗利尿剂意味着阻止尿液的释放，通过关闭它，你将导致尿液的释放。

You're sort of allowing a system to flow, so to speak.

可以这么说，你有点让系统流动。

The second category of thirst is hypovolemic thirst.

第二类口渴是低血容量性口渴。

Hypovolemic thirst occurs when there's a drop in blood pressure.

当血压下降时，就会出现低血容量性口渴。

Okay?

好的？

So the OVLT, as I mentioned before, can sense osmolarity based on the fact that it has these neurons that can detect how much salt is in the bloodstream.

因此，正如我之前提到的，OVLT 可以感知渗透压，因为它的神经元可以检测血液中的盐含量。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But the OVLT also harbors neurons that are of the baroreceptor, mechanoreceptor category.

但 OVLT 还包含属于压力感受器、机械感受器类别的神经元。

Now, more on baroreceptors and mechanoreceptors later, but baroreceptors are essentially a receptor, meaning a protein that's in a cell, that responds to changes in blood pressure.

现在，稍后将详细介绍压力感受器和机械感受器，但压力感受器本质上是一种受体，即细胞中的一种蛋白质，可对血压的变化做出反应。

So there are a number of things that can cause decreases in blood pressure.

因此，有很多因素会导致血压下降。

Some of those include, for instance, if you lose a lot of blood, right?

其中一些包括，例如，如果您失血过多，对吗？

If you're bleeding quite a lot, or in some cases if you vomit quite a lot, or if you have extensive diarrhea, or any combination of those.

如果您流血较多，或者在某些情况下呕吐较多，或者严重腹泻，或者以上情况的任意组合。

And there are other things that can reduce blood volume, and we will talk about some of those later, but in the classic case of hypovolemic thirst, one is simply losing blood and therefore blood pressure goes down.

还有其他一些因素可以减少血容量，我们稍后会讨论其中的一些，但在低血容量性口渴的典型情况下，人们只是失血，因此血压下降。

So very simple to imagine in your mind.

在你的脑海中想象非常简单。

You have these pipes, which are the arteries, veins, and capillaries, and when you lose some blood volume, the pressure in those arteries, veins and capillaries goes down.

你有这些管道，即动脉、静脉和毛细血管，当你失去一些血容量时，这些动脉、静脉和毛细血管的压力就会下降。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

OVLT has neurons that can sense that reduction in blood pressure because of the presence of baroreceptors in OVLT.

由于 OVLT 中存在压力感受器，OVLT 中的神经元可以感知血压的降低。

There are other elements that also play into the response to what we call hypovolemic thirst.

还有其他因素也会影响我们所谓的低血容量性口渴的反应。

For instance, the kidney will secrete something called renin.

例如，肾脏会分泌一种叫做肾素的物质。

Renin will activate something called angiotensin II, from the lungs of all things, amazing.

肾素会激活一种叫做血管紧张素II的东西，来自肺部的万物，令人惊奇。

And angiotensin II itself can act on OVLT, organ vasculosum and lateral terminalis, which in turn will create thirst.

而血管紧张素II本身可以作用于OVLT、血管器官和侧终叶，进而产生口渴感。

Okay?

好的？

So in both cases, right, the osmolarity sensing system, meaning osmotic thirst, and in hypovolemic thirst, where blood pressure has dropped, the end result is a desire to drink more, and that desire to drink more comes through a variety of pathways that are both direct and indirect, include vasopressin and don't include vasopressin, but I think for just sake of general example, and even for those of you that don't have any biology background or physiology background, just understand that there are two main types of thirst.

因此，在这两种情况下，渗透压传感系统，意味着渗透性口渴，而在低血容量口渴中，血压下降，最终结果是想要喝更多，而这种喝更多的欲望是通过各种直接和间接的途径产生的，包括加压素和不包括加压素，但我认为只是为了一般性的例子，即使对于那些没有任何生物学背景或生理学背景的人来说，只要理解有两个口渴的主要类型。

Both types of thirst, osmotic thirst and hypovolemic thirst, are not just about seeking water, but they also are about seeking salt.

渗透性口渴和低血容量性口渴这两种类型的口渴，不仅仅是寻求水，而且还涉及盐。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In very general terms, salt, aka sodium, can help retain water.

一般来说，盐（又名钠）可以帮助保留水分。

Now, that doesn't mean that salt always retains water.

现在，这并不意味着盐总是保留水。

If you have excessive amounts of salt, will you retain excessive amounts of water?

如果你摄入过多的盐，你会保留过多的水分吗？

Well, sort of, as we'll soon learn, it's all contextual, but for most cases, we can say that by having salt in our system, our brain and our body can function normally, provided the levels of salt are adequate and not too high or too low, and thirst, while we often think of it as just a way to bring fluid into our body, is designed as a kind of a interoceptive perception.

好吧，正如我们很快就会了解到的那样，这都是与背景有关的，但在大多数情况下，我们可以说，通过我们的系统中含有盐，只要盐的含量足够并且不太高或太低，我们的大脑和我们的身体就可以正常运作，而口渴，虽然我们经常认为它只是将液体带入我们身体的一种方式，但它被设计为一种内感受知觉。

What I mean by that, interoception, as many of you know now from listening to this podcast, is a paying of attention or a recognition rather, a conscious recognition of the events going on within our body.

我的意思是，内感受，正如你们许多人现在通过收听这个播客所知道的那样，是一种关注或一种识别，而是一种对我们体内正在发生的事件的有意识的识别。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So when we are thirsty, it's a certain form of interoception.

所以当我们口渴时，这是某种形式的内感受。

We go, "Oh, I need something," or, "I crave something." You may not know exactly what you need, but when you are thirsty, you're not just seeking water, you are also seeking to balance your osmolarity, which means you may be seeking salty fluids or foods.

我们会说，“哦，我需要一些东西”，或者“我渴望一些东西”。您可能并不确切知道自己需要什么，但是当您口渴时，您不仅仅是在寻找水，您还在寻求平衡渗透压，这意味着您可能正在寻找咸味液体或食物。

In some cases you'll try and accomplish this by eating, or it may be that you're trying to avoid, or you'll be inspired to avoid salty fluids and foods.

在某些情况下，您会尝试通过饮食来实现这一目标，或者您可能试图避免，或者您会受到启发而避免吃咸味的液体和食物。

But ...

但是...

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Prior to avoid salty fluids and foods.

之前避免咸味液体和食物。

But if you want to understand sodium and its roles in the body, you have to understand thirst.

但如果你想了解钠及其在体内的作用，你就必须了解口渴。

And if you want understand thirst, you have to understand how fluid balance is regulated in the body.

如果你想了解口渴，你就必须了解体内液体平衡是如何调节的。

That's not surprising at all.

这一点也不奇怪。

But sodium and water work together in order to generate what we call thirst.

但是钠和水一起作用会产生我们所说的口渴。

Sodium and water work together in order to either retain water or inspire us to let go of water, to urinate.

钠和水共同作用，以保留水分或促使我们排出水分、排尿。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So before we can dive into the specifics around salt and how to use salt for performance and various recommendations and things to avoid, we need to drill a little bit deeper into this fluid balance mechanism in the body.

因此，在我们深入了解盐的细节、如何使用盐来提高性能以及各种建议和应避免的事情之前，我们需要更深入地了解体内的这种液体平衡机制。

And for that reason, we have to pay at least a little bit of attention to the kidney.

因此，我们必须至少对肾脏给予一点关注。

The kidney is an incredible organ, and one of the reasons the kidney is so amazing is that it's responsible for both retaining, holding onto, or allowing the release of various substances from the body.

肾脏是一个令人难以置信的器官，肾脏如此神奇的原因之一是它负责保留、保留或允许从体内释放各种物质。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Substances like glucose or amino acids, urea, uric acid, salt, potassium, magnesium.

葡萄糖或氨基酸、尿素、尿酸、盐、钾、镁等物质。

It's basically a filter, but it's a very, very intelligent filter.

它基本上是一个过滤器，但它是一个非常非常智能的过滤器。

I mean intelligent meaning it doesn't have its own mind, but the way it works is really beautiful.

我的意思是智能意味着它没有自己的思想，但它的工作方式确实很漂亮。

Basically, blood enters the kidney and it goes through a series of tubes which are arranged into loops.

基本上，血液进入肾脏并通过一系列排列成环的管道。

If you want to look more into this, there's the beautiful Loop of Henle and other aspects of the kidney design that allow certain substances to be retained and other substances to be released, depending on how concentrated those substances are in the blood.

如果你想更多地了解这一点，有美丽的亨利环和肾脏设计的其他方面，它们允许保留某些物质并释放其他物质，具体取决于这些物质在血液中的浓度。

The kidney responds to a number of hormonal signals, including vasopressin, in order to, for instance — antidiuretic hormone — in order to hold onto more fluid if that's what your brain and body need.

肾脏会对多种激素信号做出反应，包括抗利尿激素，包括抗利尿激素，以便保留更多的液体（如果这是您的大脑和身体所需要的）。

And it responds to other hormonal signals as well.

它也会对其他荷尔蒙信号做出反应。

So it's a pretty complex organ.

所以它是一个非常复杂的器官。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Nonetheless, there's a key point which I already mentioned that I think most people don't realize.

尽管如此，我已经提到了一个关键点，我认为大多数人都没有意识到。

This is actually something that I like to tell kids when I meet them, provided that they're of appropriate age.

这实际上是我在见到孩子时喜欢告诉他们的事情，只要他们处于适当的年龄。

I'll say ...

我会说...

oftentimes when kids learn I'm a scientist, they'll ...

通常当孩子们知道我是一名科学家时，他们会......

they'll ask a question about something related to science, and hopefully for my sake, it's something about neuroscience.

他们会问一些与科学相关的问题，希望是关于神经科学的问题。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But one thing that I'll tell kids, I'll say, "Do you know that your urine, your pee is actually filtered blood?" And occasionally that will really terrify a kid, but that also occasionally really terrifies an adult.

但我会告诉孩子们一件事，我会说，“你知道你的尿液，你的小便实际上是过滤后的血液吗？”有时这确实会吓到孩子，但有时也会真正吓到成年人。

But indeed, your urine is filtered blood, basically blood gets into the kidney, the kidney's going to filter out certain things, certain things are going to be allowed to pass through and others are not.

但事实上，你的尿液是过滤后的血液，基本上血液进入肾脏，肾脏会过滤掉某些东西，某些东西将被允许通过，而另一些则不允许。

Okay?

好的？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So the way the kidney is designed is that about 90% of the stuff that's absorbed from the blood is going to be absorbed early in this series of tubes.

因此，肾脏的设计方式是，从血液中吸收的大约 90% 的物质将在这一系列管道中尽早被吸收。

And only a small percentage is going to be regulated or worked out as you get into what's called the distal kidney.

当你进入所谓的远端肾脏时，只有一小部分会受到调节或解决。

Distal just means the furthest part away.

远端只是指距离最远的部分。

Okay?

好的？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The proximal is up close.

近端是近距离的。

So like your shoulder is proximal to your midline of your body, and your hand is distal.

就像您的肩膀靠近身体中线，而您的手位于远端一样。

So in biological terms, you hear about proximal distal, which just means near or far from.

因此，用生物学术语来说，您听到的“近端”和“远端”只是意味着“接近”或“远离”。

So just to give a really simple example, let's say that you are very low on fluid, you haven't had much to drink in a while.

举一个非常简单的例子，假设您的液体含量非常低，您已经有一段时间没有喝太多水了。

Maybe you're walking around on a hot day.

也许您在大热天四处走动。

Chances are that the neurons in your OVLT will sense the increase in osmolarity.

OVLT 中的神经元很可能会感觉到渗透压的增加。

Right?

正确的？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The concentration of salt is going to be increased relative to the fluid volume that's circulating.

相对于循环的液体体积，盐的浓度将会增加。

This of course assumes that you haven't excreted a lot of sodium for one reason or another, but that increase in osmolarity is detected by the OVLT.

当然，这是假设您由于某种原因没有排出大量钠，但 OVLT 可以检测到渗透压的增加。

The OVLT is going to signal a bunch of different cascades through the supraoptic nucleus, et cetera.

OVLT 将通过视上核等发出一系列不同的级联信号。

And then vasopressin is going to be released into the bloodstream.

然后加压素将被释放到血液中。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And vasopressin, again, also called antidiuretic hormone, is going to act on the kidney and change the kidney's function in a couple of different ways.

加压素也称为抗利尿激素，它将作用于肾脏并以几种不同的方式改变肾脏的功能。

Some mechanical, some chemical.

有些是机械的，有些是化学的。

Okay?

好的？

In order to make sure that your kidney does not release much water.

以确保您的肾脏不会释放太多水分。

Doesn't make you want to urinate.

不会让你想小便。

And in fact, even if you would try to urinate, your body's going to tend to hold onto its fluid stores.

事实上，即使您尝试排尿，您的身体也会倾向于保留其储存的液体。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay?

好吧？

So very simple, straightforward example.

这是一个非常简单、直接的例子。

We can also give the other example whereby if you are ingesting a lot, a lot, a lot of water and it's not a particularly hot day and you're not sweating very much.

我们还可以举另一个例子，如果你摄入了很多、很多、很多的水，而且天气不是特别热，你出汗也不是很多。

Let's assume your salt intake is constant or is low for whatever reason.

假设您的盐摄入量是恒定的或由于某种原因而较低。

Well then, the osmolarity, the salt concentration in your blood is going to be lower.

那么，血液中的渗透压、盐浓度将会降低。

Your OVLT will detect that, because of these osmosensing neurons in your OVLT.

由于 OVLT 中有这些渗透感应神经元，您的 OVLT 会检测到这一点。

Your OVLT will fail to signal to the supraoptic nucleus, and there will not be the release of vasopressin antidiuretic hormone.

您的 OVLT 将无法向视上核发出信号，并且不会释放加压素抗利尿激素。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And you can excrete all the water that your body wants to excrete, meaning you'll be able to urinate.

您可以排出身体想要排出的所有水分，这意味着您可以排尿。

There's no holding onto water at the level of the kidney.

肾脏层面无法保留水分。

Okay?

好的？

Very simple examples, but hopefully it illustrates how events within the blood, meaning the concentration of salt relative to the amount of fluid, right?

非常简单的例子，但希望它能说明血液中的事件，即盐浓度相对于液体量的变化，对吧？

That's what osmolarity is, is detected by the OVLT.

这就是渗透压，由 OVLT 检测。

The brain then communicates to the pituitary.

然后大脑与垂体进行通信。

The pituitary sends a hormone out in the blood and the hormone acts on the kidney to either hold onto or let go of fluid.

垂体向血液中释放一种激素，该激素作用于肾脏以保留或释放液体。

Meaning to prevent you from wanting to urinate or from stimulating you to want to urinate.

意思是阻止您想要排尿或刺激您想要排尿。

Very, very simple kind of yes, no type situation here.

这里非常非常简单，是的，没有类型的情况。

There's a lot of nuance to this.

这有很多细微差别。

In reality there are a lot of other hormones in this pathway, but I think for at least this stage of the discussion, this should be sufficient.

事实上，这条途径中还有很多其他激素，但我认为至少对于这个阶段的讨论来说，这应该足够了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Some of you may have noticed that a molecule we've been talking a lot about today, vasopressin, was also mentioned on a previous episode of the Huberman Lab podcast, but in a very different context.

你们中的一些人可能已经注意到，我们今天经常谈论的一种分子，即加压素，在休伯曼实验室播客的前一集中也提到过，但背景却截然不同。

The molecule I'm referring to is vasopressin, and as I mentioned, it's a hormone involved in antidiuresis, meaning preventing urination.

我指的分子是加压素，正如我提到的，它是一种参与抗利尿作用的激素，意思是防止排尿。

It's an antidiuretic.

它是一种抗利尿剂。

But we also talked about vasopressin in the context of desire, love, and attachment.

但我们也在欲望、爱和依恋的背景下讨论了加压素。

We talked about it in the context of monogamy and nonmonogamy in a species of animal called the prairie vole.

我们在一种叫做草原田鼠的动物的一夫一妻制和非一夫一妻制的背景下讨论了这个问题。

You can check out that episode.

你可以看看那一集。

I believe vasopressin and the nonmonogamous prairie voles are mentioned in the timestamp.

我相信时间戳中提到了加压素和非一夫一妻制的草原田鼠。

So it should be easy to find.

所以应该很容易找到。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Vasopressin is made at multiple locations in the nervous system.

加压素是在神经系统的多个位置产生的。

Mainly the supraoptic nucleus, and indeed, it's also involved in aspects of sexual behavior and mating.

主要是视上核，事实上，它也涉及性行为和交配方面。

Now it does that through mechanisms that are distinct from its antidiuretic effects.

现在它通过不同于抗利尿作用的机制来实现这一点。

In fact, there are people who take vasopressin as an aphrodisiac.

事实上，有人服用加压素作为春药。

Now, I'm certainly not suggesting people do that, but I have all the confidence in the world that the moment I talk about vasopressin, someone in the comments is going to say, "What do you think about vasopressin nasal sprays and this kind of thing?" Vasopressin and, indeed, oxytocin, another hormone that's involved in pair-bonding and various aspects of brain and body function, are available as nasal sprays.

现在，我当然不是建议人们这样做，但我对世界充满信心，当我谈论加压素时，评论中的某人会说，“你对加压素鼻喷雾剂和这类东西有何看法？”加压素和催产素（另一种参与配对以及大脑和身体功能各个方面的激素）都可以作为鼻喷雾剂使用。

That can get up into the deep recesses of the brain and it can impact some of these core, what we call hypothalamic functions.

它可以进入大脑深处，影响其中一些核心功能，即我们所说的下丘脑功能。

These primitive drives and hypothalamic functions.

这些原始驱动力和下丘脑功能。

I would encourage a lot of caution.

我会鼓励大家保持谨慎。

Maybe even extreme caution in recreational use of things like vasopressin and oxytocin.

在娱乐性使用加压素和催产素等药物时甚至可能要极其谨慎。

Unless you are working with an MD and they prescribe it, or they really know what they're doing.

除非你与医学博士一起工作并且他们开了药，否则他们真的知道自己在做什么。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

These are powerful hormones that have a lot of different effects on the brain and body.

这些是强大的激素，对大脑和身体有很多不同的影响。

The way that vasopressin, meaning antidiuretic hormone, prevents the release of fluid as urine from the body is pretty interesting.

加压素（意思是抗利尿激素）阻止液体以尿液形式从体内释放的方式非常有趣。

It acts directly on the kidney.

它直接作用于肾脏。

So as I mentioned before, blood flows into the kidney.

正如我之前提到的，血液流入肾脏。

A number of things are retained in the early part of the kidney.

许多东西被保留在肾脏的早期部分。

Vasopressin acts at a fairly distal, meaning kind of end-game, part of the loops of tubes through the kidney, and it increases the permeability of those tubes.

加压素作用于相当远端，即最终游戏，是穿过肾脏的管环的一部分，它增加了这些管的通透性。

In other words, it makes sure that the fluid that would otherwise pass into a collecting duct and then go out to the bladder never actually makes it to the bladder.

换句话说，它确保原本会进入集合管然后进入膀胱的液体实际上不会到达膀胱。

I point this out because what antidiuretic hormone does is it prevents the bladder from filling at all.

我指出这一点是因为抗利尿激素的作用是完全阻止膀胱充盈。

It's not as if it locks fluid in the bladder and prevents you from urinating.

它并不是说它会将液体锁在膀胱中并阻止您排尿。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I think the way I've been describing things up until now, and the way you'll hear about antidiuretic hormone, might sound like it kind of locks up the bladder or prevents you from being able to urinate, but you have a full bladder.

我认为到目前为止我所描述的方式，以及您将听到的抗利尿激素的方式，可能听起来像是它会锁住膀胱或阻止您排尿，但您的膀胱已充满。

That would be very uncomfortable.

那样会很不舒服。

That's not the way it works.

这不是它的工作方式。

It actually causes the tubes headed towards the bladder from the kidney to become permeable.

它实际上导致从肾脏通向膀胱的管道变得可渗透。

Meaning to allow fluid to go back into the bloodstream, into the rest of the body, so that fluid never actually fills the bladder, and so you never feel the urge to urinate.

意思是让液体回到血液中，进入身体的其他部位，这样液体就不会真正充满膀胱，这样你就不会感到小便的冲动。

Now, this is an episode about salt.

现在，这是关于盐的一集。

A key thing to understand about the kidney is that the kidney uses sodium in order to conserve water.

了解肾脏的一个关键点是，肾脏使用钠来保存水分。

Which has everything to do with the fact that sodium can actually hold water.

这与钠实际上可以容纳水这一事实有关。

Put differently, water tends to follow sodium.

换句话说，水往往跟随钠。

So where we have sodium, we tend to have water, and sodium, when it's concentrated, can hold onto water.

因此，只要有钠，就会有水，而钠在浓缩时可以保留水。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And that's one of the main ways that the kidney holds onto water in the body.

这是肾脏保持体内水分的主要方式之一。

And as we'll soon learn, there is no simple and direct formula to say, for instance, okay, if salt levels are high, a lot of water is retained, and if salt levels are low, a lot of water is released.

我们很快就会了解到，没有简单直接的公式可以说，例如，如果盐含量高，就会保留大量的水，如果盐含量低，就会释放大量的水。

On the one hand, that can be true, but it's also the case because these systems are homeostatic, meaning they're always seeking balance, both within system, within the salt system, and between systems, the salt and water system.

一方面，这可能是真的，但情况也是如此，因为这些系统是稳态的，这意味着它们总是在系统内部、盐系统内以及系统之间、盐和水系统之间寻求平衡。

It's also the case often that if we have enough sodium, well then we can secrete sodium and some water will follow.

通常情况下，如果我们有足够的钠，那么我们就可以分泌钠，随之而来的是一些水。

Or if we don't have enough sodium, then yes, indeed, because we're not holding on to water, more fluid can be excreted.

或者，如果我们没有足够的钠，那么是的，确实，因为我们没有保留水，所以可以排出更多的液体。

But if that condition of low sodium lasts long enough, then we start to retain water because the body recognizes, ah, salt is low and water is being excreted, and eventually a system will kick in to retain water.

但如果这种低钠状态持续足够长的时间，那么我们就会开始保留水分，因为身体认识到，啊，盐含量低，水正在被排出体外，最终系统会启动以保留水分。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So I'd love to give you a simple black-and-white, yes or no answer for low sodium, high sodium, moderate sodium and water balance.

因此，我很乐意为您提供一个关于低钠、高钠、中等钠和水平衡的简单黑白答案，是或否。

But it's all contextual.

但这都是上下文相关的。

And when I say contextual, I mean it will depend on blood pressure, hypertension, prehypertension, if that's there, maybe normal tension, hormone levels, exercise, et cetera, et cetera.

当我说上下文时，我的意思是这取决于血压、高血压、高血压前期，如果有的话，可能是正常的紧张、激素水平、运动等等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

A pretty good example of how complicated this can all be is one that some of you may be familiar with.

你们中有些人可能熟悉的一个很好的例子说明了这一切是多么复杂。

It's pretty well-known that during certain phases of the menstrual cycle when estrogen and progesterone and other hormones are fluctuating, that water can be retained in the body.

众所周知，在月经周期的某些阶段，当雌激素、黄体酮和其他激素发生波动时，水会滞留在体内。

It's what's called edema or a swelling sometimes.

有时这就是所谓的水肿或肿胀。

So the common assumption, and indeed, it can be true, that when estrogen levels are high, there's water retention in the body.

因此，普遍的假设是，当雌激素水平高时，体内就会滞留水分，这实际上可能是正确的。

Also in males, if estrogen levels are high, there can be water retention in the body.

同样在男性中，如果雌激素水平高，体内可能会出现水潴留。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This is one of the reasons why athletes, and in particular body builders who take anabolic steroids like testosterone, which can be converted into estrogens, sometimes they'll look ...

这就是为什么运动员，特别是服用睾酮等合成代谢类固醇（可以转化为雌激素）的健美运动员，有时他们看起来......

they'll walk around, they look like they were partially inflated.

他们会四处走动，看起来像是部分充气的。

They look like they're going to pop, and it's ...

它们看起来就像要爆炸一样，而且是......

and it looks like a swelling of the skin.

看起来像是皮肤肿胀。

Not just because they have large muscles, and that's not always, but often water retention due to testosterone conversion into estrogen.

不仅仅是因为他们有大块肌肉（而且并不总是如此），而且通常是由于睾酮转化为雌激素而导致水分滞留。

Now, that all sounds consistent.

现在，这一切听起来都是一致的。

Right?

正确的？

Estrogen levels fluctuated in the menstrual cycle.

雌激素水平在月经周期中波动。

In males where there's an increase in estrogen, there's retention of water, but actually estrogen acts as a diuretic.

在雌激素增加的男性中，水分会滞留，但实际上雌激素起到利尿剂的作用。

So one would think, okay, when estrogen levels go up, there should be a lot of fluid excreted.

所以人们会想，好吧，当雌激素水平升高时，应该会排出大量液体。

But I bring up this example to point out that it's a very complicated and dynamic balance between hormones and salt and fluid.

但我举这个例子是想指出，激素、盐和液体之间存在着非常复杂和动态的平衡。

You can't draw a one-to-one relationship there, and that turns out to be a very important point.

你不能在那里建立一对一的关系，事实证明这是非常重要的一点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And we can use that not as a way to further complicate things, but as a way to understand under which context less sodium intake or more sodium intake can be beneficial.

我们不能用它来使事情进一步复杂化，而是作为一种方式来了解在什么情况下减少钠摄入量或更多钠摄入量可能是有益的。

So that's where I'd like to turn our attention now.

这就是我现在想把我们的注意力转向的地方。

So how much salt do we need, and what can we trust in terms of trying to guide our ingestion of salt?

那么我们需要多少盐，我们可以相信什么来指导我们摄入盐呢？

First of all, I want to be very, very clear that there are a number of people out there that have prehypertension or hypertension.

首先，我想非常非常清楚地知道，有很多人患有高血压前期或高血压。

You need to know if you have prehypertension or hypertension.

您需要知道您是否患有高血压前期或高血压。

You need to know if you have normal tension, meaning normal blood pressure.

您需要知道您的紧张程度是否正常，即血压是否正常。

Everyone should know their blood pressure.

每个人都应该知道自己的血压。

It's absolutely a crucial measurement that has a lot of impact on your immediate and long-term health outcomes.

这绝对是一项重要的衡量标准，对您的近期和长期健康结果有很大影响。

It informs a lot about what you should do.

它告诉我们很多关于你应该做什么的信息。

Should you be doing more cardiovascular exercise?

你应该做更多的心血管运动吗？

Should you be ingesting more or less salt?

应该多吃盐还是少吃盐？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Should you be adjusting any number of different lifestyle factors?

您是否应该调整许多不同的生活方式因素？

So you need to know that.

所以你需要知道这一点。

And without knowing what your blood pressure is, I can't give a one-size-fits-all recommendation.

在不知道您的血压是多少的情况下，我无法给出一刀切的建议。

And indeed, I'm not going to give medical recommendations.

事实上，我不会提供医疗建议。

I'm simply going to spell out what I know about the research, which hopefully will point you in the direction of figuring out what's right for you in terms of salt and, indeed, fluid intake.

我只是简单地阐述一下我对这项研究的了解，希望它能为您指明方向，找出最适合您的盐摄入量和液体摄入量。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There is a school of thought that everybody is consuming too much salt.

有一种观点认为每个人都摄入了过多的盐。

And I do want to highlight the fact that there are dozens, if not hundreds of quality papers that point to the fact that a "high salt diet" can be bad for various organs and tissues in the body, including the brain.

我确实想强调这样一个事实，即有数十篇甚至数百篇高质量论文指出“高盐饮食”可能对身体的各个器官和组织有害，包括大脑。

It just so happens that because fluid balance, both inside and outside of cells, is crucial — not just for your heart and for your lungs and for your liver and for all the organs of your body, but also for your brain — that if the salt concentration inside of cells in your brain becomes too high, neurons suffer.

碰巧的是，由于细胞内部和外部的液体平衡至关重要——不仅对您的心脏、肺、肝脏和身体的所有器官，而且对您的大脑也至关重要——如果大脑细胞内的盐浓度过高，神经元就会受到影响。

Right?

正确的？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

They will draw fluid into those cells, because water tends to follow salt, as I mentioned before, and those cells can swell.

它们会将液体吸入这些细胞，因为水往往会跟随盐，正如我之前提到的，这些细胞会膨胀。

You can literally get swelling of brain tissue.

您实际上可能会出现脑组织肿胀。

Conversely, if salt levels are too low inside of cells in any tissue of the body, but in the brain included, then the cells of the body and brain can shrink.

相反，如果身体任何组织（包括大脑）的细胞内盐含量过低，那么身体和大脑的细胞就会萎缩。

Because water is pulled into the extracellular space, away from cells, and indeed, under those conditions, brain function can suffer, and indeed, the overall health of the brain can suffer.

因为水被吸入细胞外空间，远离细胞，事实上，在这种情况下，大脑功能可能会受到影响，事实上，大脑的整体健康也会受到影响。

So there are many reports out there indicating both in experimental models and to some extent in humans that overconsumption of salt is bad for brain function and longevity.

因此，有许多报告表明，无论是在实验模型中，还是在某种程度上，在人类中，过量食用盐都不利于大脑功能和寿命。

And yet there is also decent evidence in both animal models and humans that if salt consumption is too low, then brain health and longevity will suffer as will other organs and tissues of the body.

然而，在动物模型和人类身上也有充分的证据表明，如果盐摄入量太低，那么大脑健康和寿命就会受到影响，身体的其他器官和组织也会受到影响。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So like most things in biology, you don't want things too high or too low.

因此，就像生物学中的大多数事情一样，你不希望事情太高或太低。

Now, I would say that the vast majority of studies out there point to the fact that a high-salt diet is detrimental to brain health and function.

现在，我想说的是，绝大多数研究都指出高盐饮食不利于大脑健康和功能。

Most of the studies have focused on that aspect of salt balance and its consequences on brain function.

大多数研究都集中在盐平衡的方面及其对大脑功能的影响。

One critical issue with many of those studies, however, is that the high-salt diet is often coupled to other elements of diet that are also unhealthy.

然而，其中许多研究的一个关键问题是，高盐饮食通常与其他不健康的饮食元素相结合。

Things like excessively high levels of carbohydrates or fats or combinations of carbohydrates and fats.

例如碳水化合物或脂肪含量过高或碳水化合物和脂肪的组合。

And so while I know there are many burning questions out there about how much salt one needs if they are on a low-carbohydrate diet or if they are fasting or if they are on a vegan diet.

因此，虽然我知道有很多紧迫的问题，关于一个人如果采用低碳水化合物饮食、禁食或纯素食饮食，需要多少盐。

There have simply not been many studies that have explored the low-, moderate- and high-salt conditions on a backdrop of very controlled nutrition.

在营养严格控制的背景下探索低盐、中盐和高盐条件的研究并不多。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And that's probably reflective of the fact that there are not a lot of very well-controlled nutrition studies out there.

这可能反映了这样一个事实：目前还没有很多控制良好的营养研究。

There are some, of course, but it's very hard to get people to adhere to nutritional plans in a very strict way, and to do that for sufficient periods of time that would allow the various health outcomes to occur.

当然有一些，但很难让人们以非常严格的方式遵守营养计划，并坚持足够长的时间以实现各种健康结果。

Nonetheless, there's some interesting reports that indicate that the amount of salt intake can indeed predict health outcomes, or what we call hazardous events, things like cardiovascular events and stroke, and so forth.

尽管如此，有一些有趣的报告表明，盐摄入量确实可以预测健康结果，或者我们所说的危险事件，如心血管事件和中风等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And what's interesting is that, indeed, a lower, I'm not saying low, right, because I don't believe that you want your diet to be truly low in anything except perhaps poison.

有趣的是，确实，较低，我不是说低，对吧，因为我不相信你希望你的饮食中的任何东西都真正低，除了毒物。

But a lower-salt diet can reduce the number of these so-called hazardous events, but it's somewhat of a shallow U-shaped function.

但低盐饮食可以减少这些所谓的危险事件的数量，但这在某种程度上是一个浅U形函数。

Such that, yes, indeed, a high salt intake can be very detrimental for your health, both in terms of cardiovascular events, stroke and other deleterious health events, but somewhere in the middle, that actually sits quite to the right — meaning higher than what is typically recommended for salt intake — can actually reduce the number of these hazardous events.

因此，是的，确实，高盐摄入量可能对您的健康非常不利，无论是心血管事件、中风还是其他有害健康事件，但在中间的某个位置，实际上正好位于右侧（意味着高于通常建议的盐摄入量），实际上可以减少这些危险事件的数量。

At least some reports point to that.

至少有一些报告指出了这一点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so I want to emphasize what one of those particular reports says, and I also want to be sure to counter it from the perspective of the context that that study was said in.

因此，我想强调其中一篇特定报告的内容，并且我也想确保从该研究的背景角度反驳它。

Because again, my goal here is not to give you a strict set of recommendations at all.

因为再次强调，我的目标根本不是给您提供一套严格的建议。

It's to point you to the literature, try and make that literature as clear as possible and allow you to evaluate for yourself.

它会向您指出文献，并尝试使该文献尽可能清晰，并让您自己进行评估。

And I don't just say that to protect us, I say that to protect you because indeed you are responsible for your health and your health choices.

我这样说不仅是为了保护我们，也是为了保护你，因为你确实要对自己的健康和健康选择负责。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So the paper that I'm referring to is a very interesting one.

所以我提到的这篇论文是一篇非常有趣的论文。

We of course never want to put too much weight on any one report, but this is a paper that was published in 2011 in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

我们当然不想过分重视任何一份报告，但这是 2011 年发表在《美国医学会杂志》上的一篇论文。

The title of the paper is "Urinary sodium and potassium excretion and a risk of cardiovascular events." We have not talked much about potassium yet, but sodium and potassium tend to work in concert in the brain and body in order to regulate various physiological functions and health.

论文的标题是“尿钠和钾排泄与心血管事件的风险”。我们还没有过多谈论钾，但钠和钾往往在大脑和身体中协同作用，以调节各种生理功能和健康。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And we'll talk more about potassium as time goes on.

随着时间的推移，我们将更多地讨论钾。

The key plot or set of data in this study, for those of you that want to look it up — we will link to it, and there are a lot of data in here — but is figure one, which is basically evaluating the amount of urinary excretion of sodium.

这项研究中的关键图或数据集，对于那些想要查找的人来说——我们将链接到它，这里有很多数据——但就是图一，它基本上是评估尿液中钠的排泄量。

Which is a somewhat indirect but nonetheless valuable measure of how much sodium people were ingesting.

这是一个间接但仍然有价值的衡量人们摄入钠量的方法。

And plotted against that is what they call the hazard ratio.

并根据这一点绘制出他们所说的风险比。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And the hazard ratio points to the composite of cardiovascular death, stroke, myocardial infarction — and an infarct is an injury — and hospitalization for congestive heart failure.

风险比指向心血管死亡、中风、心肌梗塞（梗塞是一种伤害）以及因充血性心力衰竭住院的综合风险。

And what it points to is the fact that the hazard ratio is lowish at sodium excretion of about two grams per day.

它指出的事实是，每天钠排泄量约为 2 克时，风险比较低。

But then continues to go down until about 4.5 to five grams per day.

但随后继续下降，直至每天约 4.5 至 5 克。

That remember, this is sodium excretion, so it's reflective of how much sodium was in the body, which is reflective of how much sodium was ingested, and then the hazard ratio increases fairly dramatically, a very steep slope heading anywhere from seven to eight to 10 and out towards 12 grams of sodium excretion per day.

请记住，这是钠排泄，因此它反映了体内钠的含量，也反映了摄入的钠量，然后风险比显着增加，一个非常陡峭的斜率，从 7 克到 8 克，再到 10 克，每天的钠排泄量为 12 克。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So the simplest way to interpret these data are that at fairly low levels of sodium, meaning at about two grams per day, you run fewer health risks, but the number of risk continues to decline as you move towards four and five grams per day.

因此，解释这些数据的最简单方法是，在钠含量相当低的情况下，即每天大约两克，您面临的健康风险就会减少，但随着您每天摄入四克和五克，风险的数量就会继续下降。

And then as you increase your salt intake further, then the risk dramatically increases.

然后，当您进一步增加盐摄入量时，风险就会急剧增加。

So no study is holy, nor is any figure in any study or any collection of studies holy.

因此，没有一项研究是神圣的，任何研究中的任何人物或任何研究集合中的任何人物也不是神圣的。

Rather, we always want to look at what the bulk of data in a particular field reveal.

相反，我们总是想看看特定领域的大量数据揭示了什么。

Nonetheless, I think the plot that we described, meaning the graph that we described, is pretty interesting.

尽管如此，我认为我们描述的情节，即我们描述的图表，非常有趣。

In light of the 2020 to 2025 dietary recommendations for Americans, which is that people consume no more than 2.3 grams, meaning 2300 milligrams of sodium per day.

根据2020年至2025年美国人的饮食建议，人们的钠摄入量不超过2.3克，即每天摄入2300毫克钠。

That's about a half a teaspoon of salt per day.

这大约是每天半茶匙的盐。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, most people are probably consuming more than that because of the fact that they are ingesting processed foods, and processed foods tend to have more salt in them than nonprocessed foods.

现在，大多数人的消费量可能超过这个数字，因为他们正在摄入加工食品，而加工食品往往比非加工食品含有更多的盐。

Now, of course, that's not always the case, right?

当然，现在情况并非总是如此，对吧？

Sea salt is not a processed food in most cases.

在大多数情况下，海盐不是加工食品。

And there are a lot of unprocessed foods that can be high in sodium, but processed foods in particular tend to have a lot of sodium.

许多未加工食品的钠含量可能很高，但加工食品往往含有大量钠。

You can see this simply by looking at the packaging of any number of different foods.

只需查看多种不同食品的包装即可看出这一点。

But if we are to take this number of 2.3 grams, that's the recommended cutoff for ingestion of sodium.

但如果我们要摄入 2.3 克这个数字，那就是建议的钠摄入量临界值。

It actually falls in a portion of the curve that we were talking about a moment ago.

它实际上落在我们刚才讨论的曲线的一部分。

That indeed is associated with low hazard, low incidence of hazardous outcomes, cardiovascular event, stroke, et cetera.

这确实与低危险、低危险结果发生率、心血管事件、中风等相关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But according to that plot, the ingestion of four or five grams of sodium, almost double or more sodium than is currently recommended, is associated with even lower numbers of hazardous events.

但根据该图，摄入四到五克钠（几乎是目前建议钠的两倍或更多）与更少的危险事件相关。

So we need to think about this.

所以我们需要思考这个问题。

And we need to explore it in the context of other studies, of course, and we need to evaluate it in terms of this thing that we've been going back to again and again, which is context.

当然，我们需要在其他研究的背景下探索它，我们需要根据我们一次又一次回顾的这个东西来评估它，这就是背景。

Right?

正确的？

These recommendations of 2.3-gram-per-day cutoff is in the context of a landscape where some people do, indeed, have hypertension or prehypertension.

这些每日摄入量 2.3 克的建议是在某些人确实患有高血压或高血压前期的情况下提出的。

The incidence of hypertension has gone up dramatically in the last a hundred years and seems to continue to go up.

过去一百年来，高血压的发病率急剧上升，而且似乎还在继续上升。

Whether or not that's because of increased salt intake or whether or not it's because of increased salt intake and other things such as highly processed foods, that isn't clear.

这是否是因为盐摄入量增加，或者是否因为盐摄入量增加以及其他因素（例如精加工食品）导致，目前尚不清楚。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Again, pointing to the challenge in doing these epidemiological studies and really parsing what aspects of a change in some health metric is due to.

再次指出进行这些流行病学研究并真正解析某些健康指标变化的原因的挑战。

For instance, the ingestion of more sugars versus more salts, or simply because of the ingestion of more salt.

例如，摄入更多的糖与更多的盐，或者仅仅是因为摄入更多的盐。

It's a complicated, almost barbed-wire topic by now.

到目前为止，这是一个复杂的、几乎是铁丝网的话题。

But we can start to pull apart that barbed-wire tangle and start to evaluate some of the other people in other conditions that exist out there, maybe for you, that actually warrant more sodium intake and where more sodium intake might actually be beneficial.

但我们可以开始拆开铁丝网的纠缠，并开始评估其他一些处于其他条件下的人，也许对你来说，这些条件实际上需要更多的钠摄入量，并且更多的钠摄入量实际上可能是有益的。

So again, I want to be very, very clear that you need to know your blood pressure.

再次强调，我想非常非常清楚地表明，您需要了解自己的血压。

If you have high blood pressure or you're prehypertensive, you should be especially cautious about doing anything that increases your blood pressure.

如果您患有高血压或处于高血压前期，则应特别谨慎地对待任何会导致血压升高的行为。

And as always, you want to, of course, talk to your doctor about doing anything that could adjust your health in any direction.

当然，与往常一样，您当然想与您的医生讨论做任何可以在任何方向上调整您的健康的事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But nonetheless, there are some important papers that have been published in recent years.

尽管如此，近年来还是发表了一些重要的论文。

I want to point to one of them in particular.

我想特别指出其中之一。

This is a paper that was published in the journal Autonomic Neuroscience: Basic and Clinical.

这是一篇发表在《自主神经科学：基础与临床》杂志上的论文。

Because this paper, like several other papers, asked the question, and indeed they ask the question in the title, it's a review: "Dietary sodium and health: How much is too much for those with orthostatic disorders?"

因为这篇论文和其他几篇论文一样，提出了这个问题，而且他们确实在标题中提出了这个问题，这是一篇评论：“膳食钠与健康：对于患有体位障碍的人来说，多少算是太多？”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, orthostatic disorders come in a bunch of different varieties, and we're going to talk about those in a moment.

现在，直立障碍有多种不同的类型，我们稍后将讨论这些类型。

But there are a number of people out there that have low blood pressure, right?

但有很多人患有低血压，对吗？

People that get dizzy when they stand up.

站起来就会头晕的人。

People that are feeling chronically fatigued, and in some cases, not all those groups can actually benefit from increasing their sodium intake.

长期感到疲劳的人，在某些情况下，并非所有这些群体都能从增加钠摄入量中真正受益。

Several episodes ago on the Huberman Lab podcast, I gave what is just clearly what we call "anecdata," which is not even really data — it's just anecdotal data — of an individual who was always feeling hungry and craving sugar, and based on the fact that they also had low blood pressure, I had them talk to a physician and they got permission to try a little mini experiment on themselves.

几集前，在 Huberman Lab 播客上，我给出了我们所说的“轶事数据”，这甚至不是真正的数据——它只是轶事数据——关于一个总是感到饥饿和渴望糖的人，基于他们也有低血压的事实，我让他们与医生交谈，他们获准在自己身上尝试一个小实验。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so they did, and that mini experiment was anytime they felt like they were craving sugar or they were feeling a little lightheaded and dizzy, rather than reaching for something with caloric intake, they took a little bit of sea salt, a little pinch of sea salt, and put it into some water and drank it.

于是他们就这么做了，这个小实验是，每当他们觉得自己想吃糖，或者感觉有点头晕目眩时，他们就拿一点海盐，一小撮海盐，然后把它放进水里喝下去，而不是去吃一些含有热量的东西。

Or in the case of this individual, they would actually take a little sea-salt packet and they would actually just down a sea-salt packet.

或者对于这个人来说，他们实际上会拿一点海盐包，而且他们实际上只会吞下一包海盐。

And for them, that provided tremendous relief for their dizziness.

对于他们来说，这极大地缓解了他们的头晕。

But that, of course, was in the context of somewhat abnormally low blood pressure.

当然，这是在血压有些异常低的情况下发生的。

So I don't think that they are alone in the fact that many people out there suffer from a low-blood-pressure condition.

因此，我认为他们并不孤单，许多人都患有低血压。

Many people out there suffer from a high-blood-pressure condition.

许多人患有高血压。

So, know your blood pressure and understand that blood pressure in part is regulated by your sodium intake and your sodium balance.

因此，了解您的血压并了解血压部分受您的钠摄入量和钠平衡调节。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Why?

为什么？

Well, because of the osmolarity of blood that we talked about before.

嗯，因为我们之前讨论过血液的渗透压。

Where if you have a certain concentration of sodium, meaning sufficient sodium in your bloodstream, that will tend to draw water into the bloodstream, and essentially the pipes that are your capillaries, arteries and veins will be full.

如果你有一定浓度的钠，这意味着你的血液中有足够的钠，这往往会将水吸入血液中，基本上你的毛细血管、动脉和静脉的管道就会充满。

The blood pressure will get up to your head.

血压会上升到你的头上。

Whereas some people, their blood pressure is low because the osmolarity of their blood is low.

而有些人的血压低是因为血液的渗透压低。

And that can have a number of downstream consequences.

这可能会产生许多下游后果。

I should also mention it can be the consequence itself of challenges or even deficits in kidney function, but all of these organs are working together.

我还应该提到，这可能是肾功能挑战甚至缺陷本身的结果，但所有这些器官都在协同工作。

So the encouragement here is not necessarily to ingest more sodium.

所以这里鼓励的不一定是摄入更多的钠。

It's to know your blood pressure and to address whether or not an increase in sodium intake would actually benefit your blood pressure in a way that could relieve some of the dizziness and other symptoms of things like orthostatic disorders.

这是为了了解您的血压，并确定增加钠摄入量是否真的有利于您的血压，从而缓解一些头晕和直立障碍等其他症状。

But of course, to do that in a safe context and to never play games with your blood sugar or your blood osmolarity.

但当然，要在安全的情况下做到这一点，并且永远不要玩弄血糖或血液渗透压的游戏。

That could set your system down a cascade of negative events.

这可能会让你的系统发生一系列负面事件。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Let's look at what the current recommendations are for people that suffer from orthostatic disorders like orthostatic hypo, meaning too low tension, orthostatic hypotension, postural tachycardia syndrome, some refer to as pots, P-O-T-S, or idiopathic orthostatic tachycardia and syncope.

让我们看看目前对患有直立性障碍的人有哪些建议，例如直立性低血压（即张力过低）、直立性低血压、体位性心动过速综合征（有些人称为 Pot、P-O-T-S 或特发性直立性心动过速和晕厥）。

These have the incredibly elaborate names.

这些都有令人难以置信的复杂名称。

Those groups are often told to increase their salt intake in order to combat their symptoms.

这些群体经常被告知要增加盐摄入量以对抗症状。

The American Society of Hypertension recommends anywhere from 6,000 to 10,000, these are very high levels, so this is six grams to 10 grams of salt per day.

美国高血压协会建议摄入 6,000 至 10,000 克盐，这是非常高的水平，因此每天摄入盐量为 6 克至 10 克。

Keeping in mind, again, that salt is not the same as sodium.

再次记住，盐与钠不同。

So that equates to about 2,400 to 4,000 milligrams of sodium per day.

这相当于每天大约 2,400 至 4,000 毫克钠。

Again, if you want to learn more about this and get more of the citations, I'll refer you back to this study on dietary sodium and health.

再说一遍，如果您想了解更多相关信息并获得更多引用，我会推荐您回到这项关于膳食钠与健康的研究。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

How much is too much for those with orthostatic disorders?

对于患有直立障碍的人来说多少算是太多？

We will put a link to this in the caption show notes.

我们将在标题显示注释中放置一个链接。

So, that's not just in the U.S. The salt recommendations from the Canadian Cardiovascular Society are 10,000 milligrams of salt per day.

所以，这不仅仅是在美国。加拿大心血管协会的盐建议是每天 10,000 毫克盐。

So four grams of sodium is what that equates to, and on and on and on.

所以四克钠相当于，等等。

For things like POTS, for these postural syndromes that result from, or I should say from these syndromes that involve low blood pressure when people stand up or in certain postures.

对于像 POTS 这样的事情，对于这些由人们站立或处于某些姿势时出现低血压引起的姿势综合症，或者我应该说是这些综合症引起的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So I point out this paper, and I point out these higher salt recommendations to emphasize again that context is vital.

因此，我指出这篇论文，并指出这些高盐建议，以再次强调背景至关重要。

Right?

正确的？

That people with high blood pressure are going to need certain amounts of salt intake.

高血压患者需要摄入一定量的盐。

People with lower blood pressure and maybe with some of these postural orthostatic syndromes are going to need higher amounts of salt.

血压较低的人以及可能患有某些体位直立综合征的人将需要更多的盐。

And for most people out there, you're going to need to evaluate how much salt intake is going to allow your brain and body to function optimally.

对于大多数人来说，您需要评估摄入多少盐才能让您的大脑和身体发挥最佳功能。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And there are some fairly straightforward ways to explore that.

有一些相当简单的方法可以探索这一点。

And there are some ways to explore that in the context of what you already know about thirst and salt appetite that can make that exploration one in which it's not going to be a constant wandering around in the dark, and where you can figure out what's right for you.

在你已经了解口渴和盐的食欲的背景下，有一些方法可以让你的探索不再是在黑暗中不断徘徊，而是可以找到适合你的东西。

For most people, a moderate increase in salt intake is not going to be detrimental provided that you consume enough fluids, in particular water.

对于大多数人来说，只要摄入足够的液体（尤其是水），适度增加盐摄入量就不会有害。

Okay?

好的？

Meaning if you happen to overeat salt a bit, you will get thirsty, you will ingest more water, and you will excrete the excess sodium.

这意味着如果你碰巧吃太多盐，你就会口渴，你会摄入更多的水，并且会排出多余的钠。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There is evidence that the body can store sodium in various organs.

有证据表明身体可以在各个器官中储存钠。

That storage of sodium may or may not be a detrimental thing.

钠的储存可能是有害的，也可能不是有害的。

In general, excess storage of sodium in tissues and organs of the brain and body is not thought to be good for long-term health.

一般来说，大脑和身体的组织和器官中钠的过量储存被认为不利于长期健康。

So eating much more sodium than you need for long periods of time is, indeed, bad for you.

因此，长期摄入过多的钠确实对身体有害。

Earlier I mentioned that salt and your hunger and thirst for salt is homeostatically regulated.

之前我提到过盐和你对盐的饥饿和口渴是通过体内平衡调节的。

And indeed, that's the case.

事实确实如此。

Much like temperature is homeostatically regulated.

就像温度是稳态调节的一样。

What that means is if you pay attention to it, if your salt levels are low, you will.

这意味着如果你注意它，如果你的盐含量很低，你就会的。

PART 1 OF 3 ENDS Andrew Huberman:

第 1 部分（共 3 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：

If your salt levels are low, you will tend to crave salt and salty beverages and salty foods.

如果您的盐含量较低，您会倾向于渴望盐以及咸味饮料和咸味食物。

And in most cases you should probably follow that craving, provided those salty beverages and salty foods are not bringing in a lot of other things, or anything, ideally, that's bad for you.

在大多数情况下，你可能应该遵循这种渴望，前提是这些咸饮料和咸食物不会带来很多其他东西，或者任何理想情况下对你有害的东西。

So I think it's fair to say that whether or not you're vegan, vegetarian, carnivore, or omnivore, that we should all try to limit our ingestion of processed foods.

所以我认为可以公平地说，无论你是素食主义者、素食主义者、肉食动物还是杂食动物，我们都应该尽量限制加工食品的摄入。

My read of the literature is that sure, some processed foods are acceptable for us and aren't going to kill us outright, but that for most people in the world, eating fewer processed foods is just going to be a good thing to do.

我读到的文献是肯定的，一些加工食品对我们来说是可以接受的，并且不会彻底杀死我们，但对于世界上大多数人来说，少吃加工食品只是一件好事。

So following your salt hunger and thirst, in most cases, is going to be beneficial, provided that it's in the context of eating healthy, nonprocessed foods, on whatever backdrop of nutritional and dietary recommendations is right for you.

因此，在大多数情况下，只要在吃健康、非加工食品的背景下，在任何适合您的营养和饮食建议的背景下，遵循您的盐饥渴感，都是有益的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I simply can't tell you what to eat and what not to eat, because I acknowledge the fact that some people are vegans because of ethical reasons related to animals, or some people are vegans because of reasons related to the climate and the environment.

我只是无法告诉你吃什么和不吃什么，因为我承认有些人是因为与动物有关的道德原因而成为素食主义者，或者有些人是因为与气候和环境有关的原因而成为素食主义者。

Other people do it for specific health reasons.

其他人这样做是出于特定的健康原因。

Likewise, I know plenty of people that eat meat and avoid vegetables, believe it or not.

同样，无论你信不信，我认识很多人吃肉而不吃蔬菜。

And I know people that eat both, and they do this often — each, I should say all, citing literature that supports their particular camp and their particular view.

我知道有人两者都吃，而且他们经常这样做——我应该说，每个人都引用支持他们特定阵营和特定观点的文献。

It's not a territory I want to get into.

这不是我想涉足的领域。

But with respect to salt intake, and the fact that salt intake is homeostatically regulated, it is the case that if you're craving salt, you probably need it.

但就盐摄入量而言，以及盐摄入量是体内平衡调节的事实，如果您渴望盐，您可能需要它。

So for those of you that are sweating excessively or even if you're in a very hot environment and you're not exercising, and you're just losing water and salt from your system, remember also that you can be in a very cold environment.

因此，对于那些出汗过多的人，或者即使您处于非常热的环境中并且没有锻炼，而只是从系统中流失水和盐，也要记住您可能处于非常冷的环境中。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Very cold, dry environments often go together, and you can be losing a lot of fluids from your body.

非常寒冷、干燥的环境经常伴随而来，你可能会从体内流失大量液体。

And you will crave fluids and salt even though it's cold, and you're not actually noticeably perspiring.

即使天气很冷，你也会渴望液体和盐，而且你实际上并没有明显出汗。

So if you're exercising a lot, if you're in a particular cold, dry environment or a particular hot environment, you ought to be ingesting sufficient amounts of salt and fluid.

因此，如果您经常锻炼，如果您处于特别寒冷、干燥的环境或特别炎热的环境中，您应该摄入足够量的盐和液体。

A rule of thumb for exercise-based replenishment of fluid comes from what I, some episodes back, referred to as the Galpin equation.

基于运动补充液体的经验法则来自于我在某些情节中所说的加尔平方程。

The Galpin equation, I named it after Andy Galpin, and I think that is the appropriate attribution there.

加尔平方程，我以安迪·加尔平的名字命名，我认为这是合适的归属。

Andy Galpin is an exercise physiologist at Cal State, Fullerton, I believe, and he's going to be a podcast guest here on the Huberman Lab podcast.

我相信安迪·加尔平是加州州立大学富勒顿分校的运动生理学家，他将成为休伯曼实验室播客的播客嘉宾。

He's an exceptional muscle physiologist.

他是一位杰出的肌肉生理学家。

He also lives in the practical realm, where he gives recommendations about exercise to expert athletes, as well as the everyday person.

他还生活在实践领域，向专业运动员以及普通人提供有关锻炼的建议。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So the Galpin equation is based on the fact that we lose about one to five pounds of water per hour, which can definitely impact our mental capacity and our physical performance.

因此，加尔平方程基于这样一个事实：我们每小时失去大约一到五磅的水，这肯定会影响我们的心理能力和身体表现。

And the reason that loss of water from our system impacts mental capacity and physical performance has a lot to do with literally the changes in the volume of those cells, the size of those cells, based on how much sodium is contained in or outside those cells.

我们身体系统中水分的流失会影响精神能力和身体表现，这与这些细胞体积的变化有很大关系，这些细胞的大小取决于这些细胞内部或外部含有多少钠。

And something that I've alluded to before on the podcast, and I'll talk about more in a moment, which is that neurons signal to one another by way of electricity, through something called the action potential, and that actually requires sodium and potassium and magnesium.

我之前在播客中提到过，稍后我会详细讨论，即神经元通过电流、通过称为动作电位的东西相互发送信号，这实际上需要钠、钾和镁。

So the Galpin equation suggests that we start exercise hydrated with electrolytes, not just with water.

因此，加尔平方程建议我们开始运动时补充电解质，而不仅仅是水。

So that means water that has some sodium, potassium and magnesium.

这意味着水中含有一些钠、钾和镁。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There are simple, low-cost ways to do that we'll talk about.

我们将讨论一些简单、低成本的方法。

And the formula for hydration, the so-called Galpin equation, is your body weight in pounds divided by 30 equals the ounces of fluid you should drink every 15 minutes.

水合作用的公式，即所谓的加尔平方程，是您的体重（磅）除以 30，等于您每 15 分钟应喝的液体量（盎司）。

That may turn out to be more fluid than you can comfortably consume during the activity that you're performing.

这可能会导致您在活动期间无法轻松摄入更多液体。

Now, the Galpin equation is mainly designed for exercise, but I think is actually a very good rule of thumb for time that you need to engage mental capacity, not just physical performance.

现在，加尔平方程主要是为锻炼而设计的，但我认为这实际上是一个非常好的时间经验法则，你需要调动心理能力，而不仅仅是身体表现。

Your body weight in pounds divided by 30 equals the amount, the ounces of fluid you should drink every 15 minutes, does not necessarily mean you have to ingest it every 15 minutes on the dot.

您的体重（磅）除以 30 等于每 15 分钟应饮用的液体量（盎司），但这并不一定意味着您必须每 15 分钟立即摄入液体。

And I think many activities, physical activities, but also cognitive activities like Zoom meetings or in-person meetings or lecturing or running or cycling are going to make it complicated to ingest the appropriate amount of fluid every 15 minutes on the dot.

我认为许多活动，体力活动，还有认知活动，如 Zoom 会议、面对面会议、演讲、跑步或骑自行车，都会让每 15 分钟即刻摄入适量的液体变得复杂。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm not going to speak for Andy, for Dr. Galpin, but I think he would probably agree that these are averages to shoot for, and that unless you're hyperneurotic, the idea is to make sure that you're entering the activity, cognitive or physical, sufficiently hydrated, and that throughout that activity you're hydrating regularly.

我不会代表安迪和加尔平博士发言，但我认为他可能会同意这些是平均水平，除非你神经过敏，否则我们的想法是确保你在参加活动时，无论是认知上还是身体上，都有足够的水分，并且在整个活动过程中定期补充水分。

And it points to the fact that most people are probably underhydrating, but not just underhydrating from the perspective of not ingesting enough water, that they're probably not getting enough electrolytes as well: sodium, potassium and magnesium.

它指出了这样一个事实：大多数人可能水分不足，但不仅仅是从没有摄入足够水的角度来看水分不足，他们也可能没有获得足够的电解质：钠、钾和镁。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So I've said two somewhat contradictory things.

所以我说了两件有些矛盾的话。

On the one hand I've said, follow your salt appetite.

一方面，我说过，遵循你的盐胃口。

Follow your salt thirst.

跟随你的盐渴。

If you're craving salt, ingest some salt until you stop craving the salt.

如果您想吃盐，请摄入一些盐，直到您不再想吃盐为止。

On the other hand, I've given you this fairly specific recommendation based on the Galpin equation, that you should ingest your body weight in pounds divided by 30.

另一方面，我根据加尔平方程给了你这个相当具体的建议，你应该摄入你的体重（以磅为单位除以 30）。

That's how many ounces of fluid you should drink every 15 minutes, which I'm guessing for most people is going to be more fluid than they're currently drinking, on average.

这就是您每 15 分钟应该喝多少盎司的液体，我猜对大多数人来说，平均而言，这将比他们目前喝的液体更多。

And so how could it be that you can have a recommendation for what's optimal that's different than the amount that you would reflexively drink?

那么，你怎么可能得到与你本能地喝水量不同的最佳建议呢？

And it has to do with the fact that a lot of the hormone systems like vasopressin, antidiuretic hormone, other hormones like aldosterone, and a lot of the neural and hormonal signals that govern salt and water balance are fairly slow to kick in.

这与许多激素系统（如加压素、抗利尿激素、醛固酮等其他激素）以及许多控制盐和水平衡的神经和激素信号的启动速度相当缓慢有关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So for instance, if you eat a fairly salty meal and you sense that salt, meaning you detect it and perceive it because the food tastes salty, you'll probably want to drink a fair amount of fluid with it.

举例来说，如果你吃了一顿相当咸的饭菜，并且你感觉到了盐，这意味着你检测到它并感知到它，因为食物尝起来很咸，你可能会想喝大量的液体。

Whereas if some of the salt is disguised by other flavors, something that we'll talk about in a few minutes when we talk about the neural representation of things like salty and sweet, well then you might not notice that something's salty.

然而，如果一些盐被其他味道所掩盖，那么我们将在几分钟内讨论咸和甜等事物的神经表征时讨论这一点，那么您可能不会注意到某些东西是咸的。

And then a few minutes or hours after ingesting that meal, you might feel very, very tired.

吃完这顿饭几分钟或几小时后，您可能会感到非常非常疲倦。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You might even wonder whether or not it's because of some blood sugar effect.

您甚至可能想知道这是否是由于血糖的影响。

Maybe it's a crash in blood sugar, you might think, or something else related to that meal.

您可能会想，这可能是血糖急剧下降，或者是与这顿饭有关的其他原因。

Or maybe you think it's because of some other event in your life, but actually what has happened is you're dehydrated, because you didn't recognize that you needed to drink more fluids.

或者您可能认为这是因为生活中的其他事件造成的，但实际上发生的情况是您脱水了，因为您没有意识到自己需要喝更多的液体。

So I want to acknowledge the contradiction in the idea that everything is homeostatically regulated, and therefore you are aware of what you need, and the counterargument that, "Ah, you need to follow these strict recommendations." It is actually going to be somewhere in between.

所以我想承认一切都是稳态调节的这一观点的矛盾，因此你知道你需要什么，以及反驳说，“啊，你需要遵循这些严格的建议。”它实际上介于两者之间。

And of course, your body and brain can start to adapt to certain levels of salt intake.

当然，您的身体和大脑可以开始适应一定水平的盐摄入量。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There's now a fairly famous study that was done in Germany which looked at different phases of salt intake, meaning they had subjects ingest either 12 grams of salt per day or nine grams per day or six grams per day for fairly long periods of time, and they collected urine for testing.

德国现在有一项相当著名的研究，研究了盐摄入的不同阶段，这意味着他们让受试者在相当长的一段时间内每天摄入 12 克盐、每天 9 克或 6 克盐，并收集尿液进行测试。

This was actually a very controlled study.

这实际上是一项非常对照的研究。

I'm just going to paraphrase from the National Institutes of Health report on this study, because they did a very nice write-up of it.

我只想转述美国国立卫生研究院关于这项研究的报告，因为他们对此做了很好的报道。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And they say that a big surprise of these results is that whatever the level of salt that was consumed, sodium was stored and released from the subjects' bodies in fairly regular weekly and monthly patterns, meaning people tended to adapt to a certain level of salt intake, and then it led to a fairly constant amount of salt retention and urine fluid excretion.

他们表示，这些结果的一个大惊喜是，无论摄入的盐量是多少，钠都会以每周和每月相当规律的方式从受试者体内储存和释放，这意味着人们倾向于适应一定水平的盐摄入量，然后导致盐潴留和尿液排泄量相当恒定。

And that's because of the various hormones like aldosterone, which regulate sodium excretion from the kidney, and glucocorticoids, which we'll talk about more in a moment, which help regulate metabolism.

这是因为各种激素，例如醛固酮（调节肾脏钠排泄）和糖皮质激素（我们稍后会详细讨论），它们有助于调节新陈代谢。

Glucocorticoids are released from the adrenal glands, which ride atop of the kidneys.

糖皮质激素从位于肾脏顶部的肾上腺释放。

And there's a very close relationship between the stress system, glucocorticoids and the salt system.

压力系统、糖皮质激素和盐系统之间存在非常密切的关系。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So the reason why your salt appetite isn't a perfect readout of how much salt you should ingest and why it might be helpful to follow some of these formulas like the Galpin equation, especially if you're engaging in exercise, where you're going to be perspiring of course, is that your body will tend to adapt to a certain amount of salt intake over time, and then your appetite for salt won't necessarily be the best indication of how much salt you should ingest or avoid.

因此，为什么您的盐食欲并不能完美地表明您应该摄入多少盐，以及为什么遵循加尔平方程等一些公式可能会有所帮助，尤其是当您正在进行运动时，当然您会出汗，原因是随着时间的推移，您的身体会倾向于适应一定量的盐摄入量，然后您对盐的胃口不一定是您应该摄入或避免多少盐的最佳指示。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Before I move on, I want to really reemphasize the fact that inside of the Galpin equation, there is that mention of every 15 minutes.

在继续之前，我想再次强调这样一个事实：在 Galpin 方程中，每 15 分钟就会提到一次。

And people have come back to me again and again about this saying, "I can't drink that much water every 15 minutes.

人们一次又一次地向我询问这句话：“我不能每 15 分钟喝那么多水。

It's too much volume of fluid in my stomach.

我胃里的液体太多了。

I can't run with that, et cetera." Remember, these are averages, so that's what you want to average around a particular activity.

我不能接受这样的事情，等等。”请记住，这些是平均值，因此这就是您想要围绕特定活动计算的平均值。

These are not strict recommendations, where a buzzer goes off and every 15 minutes you have to chug that exact amount of electrolyte-containing solution.

这些并不是严格的建议，蜂鸣器会响起，并且每 15 分钟您就必须喝下准确数量的含电解质溶液。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Another key feature of the study that I was referring to before, which incidentally was published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation, is that the body regulates its salt and water balance not just by excreting sodium, right, but by retaining or releasing water.

我之前提到的这项研究的另一个关键特征是，身体不仅通过排泄钠来调节盐和水的平衡，还通过保留或释放水来调节盐和水的平衡，对吧。

And this is because of the relationship between sodium and water that we were talking about before.

这是因为我们之前讨论过钠和水之间的关系。

And the advantage of this mechanism, they state, here I'm paraphrasing, is that the long-term maintenance of body fluids is not as dependent on external water as once believed.

他们指出，这种机制的优点是，体液的长期维持并不像人们曾经认为的那样依赖于外部水。

Right?

正确的？

What the system probably evolved to do was to adjust to different levels of sodium availability in the environment.

该系统的进化可能是为了适应环境中不同水平的钠可用性。

And that raises a really key element of salt and its importance in human history and human evolution and human health.

这就提出了盐的一个真正关键的元素及其在人类历史、人类进化和人类健康中的重要性。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We haven't talked too much about this, and there are several very good books about the history of salt.

我们没有过多谈论这一点，并且有几本关于盐的历史的非常好的书籍。

Salt was a very valuable and heavily sought-after substance throughout much of human history, so much so that there are actually written reports of people being paid for labor in the form of salt.

在人类历史的大部分时间里，盐都是一种非常有价值且广受欢迎的物质，以至于实际上有书面报告表明人们以盐的形式获得劳动报酬。

And salt, when it's scarce, has been quite expensive in certain regions of the world, especially regions located further away from the sea.

在世界某些地区，特别是距离海洋较远的地区，盐在稀缺的情况下非常昂贵。

And a friend of mine who has deep roots within the culinary community told me about traveling to somewhat impoverished areas of Europe some years ago and going into homes where in the middle of the kitchen table there was a fish, a salty fish hanging from a thread above the table.

我的一位在烹饪界有着深厚根基的朋友告诉我，几年前，我曾去过欧洲有些贫困的地区，走进一些家庭，厨房的桌子中间有一条鱼，一条咸鱼挂在桌子上方的一根线上。

And that because of a lack of availability of table salt, the common practice was to take any food that needed some salt for additional flavoring, and to actually rub that food on this salty fish, or to squeeze the fish a bit onto the food substance in order to get salt from it.

由于缺乏食盐，常见的做法是采取任何需要盐来额外调味的食物，然后将这些食物实际擦在咸鱼上，或者将鱼挤到食物物质上，以便从中获取盐。

So, that's a very kind of extreme example.

所以，这是一个非常极端的例子。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Nowadays we kind of take salt for granted, and most of the discussion out there is about excess salt.

如今，我们认为盐是理所当然的，大多数讨论都是关于盐过量的。

But as I'm pointing out, that salt for a long time has been a very sought-after commodity, and one that people really cherished for their health.

但正如我所指出的，盐长期以来一直是一种非常抢手的商品，人们非常珍惜它的健康。

In the episode that I did on metabolism, I talked about the relationship between salt and iodine.

在我做的关于新陈代谢的节目中，我谈到了盐和碘之间的关系。

If you're interested in iodine and whether or not iodized salt or noniodized salt is best or required, I'd encourage you to listen to that episode, which was about, again, metabolism.

如果您对碘感兴趣，以及碘盐或非碘盐是最好还是必需的，我鼓励您听那一集，它又是关于新陈代谢的。

Some people may need more iodine intake.

有些人可能需要摄入更多的碘。

Some people perhaps do not.

有些人也许不这么认为。

Some people might even want to ingest things like kelp.

有些人甚至可能想摄入海带之类的东西。

Some people might not.

有些人可能不会。

So please listen to that episode if you're interested in the iodine aspects of salt, which have direct impact on thyroid hormone and thyroid function, which of course relates to metabolism.

因此，如果您对盐中的碘含量感兴趣，请听这一集，它对甲状腺激素和甲状腺功能有直接影响，当然与新陈代谢有关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Nowadays, there's a lot of interest in and even a kind of proliferation of what I call fancy salts.

如今，人们对我所说的“花式盐”产生了很大的兴趣，甚至出现了某种程度的扩散。

So whether or not you should be ingesting sea salts or whether or not common table salt will suffice.

因此，您是否应该摄入海盐，或者普通食盐是否就足够了。

In most cases, for what we're discussing here, common table salt is fine.

在大多数情况下，对于我们在这里讨论的内容，普通食盐就可以了。

But I should point out that sea salt often contains other minerals which can be very useful, and we will do entire episodes on those other minerals.

但我应该指出，海盐通常含有其他非常有用的矿物质，我们将针对这些其他矿物质进行整个剧集。

So sea salt can contain dozens or more of minerals, some of which can be quite valuable to our health, others of which are less important and only need to be consumed in trace amounts.

因此，海盐可以含有数十种或更多的矿物质，其中一些对我们的健康非常有价值，另一些则不太重要，只需要摄入微量。

But you're not going to get many minerals, if any, from common table salt.

但你不会从普通食盐中获得很多矿物质（如果有的话）。

And that's why, in addition to the pretty colors, and perhaps, some people report that it actually tastes better, some of these so-called fancy salts or sea salts, you might want to consume a more advanced form of salt, if you will.

这就是为什么，除了漂亮的颜色之外，也许有些人报告说它实际上味道更好，其中一些所谓的花式盐或海盐，如果您愿意的话，您可能想食用更高级的盐。

Although, I suppose it's actually the more primitive of a form of salt, if it's actually the one that comes from the ocean.

不过，我认为它实际上是一种更原始​​的盐，如果它实际上是来自海洋的盐的话。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So we've all heard about how excess salt, it's bad for blood pressure, it can damage the heart, the brain, et cetera.

我们都听说过过量的盐对血压不利，还会损害心脏、大脑等。

I do want to give some voice to situations where too little salt can actually cause problems.

我确实想对盐太少实际上会导致问题的情况发表一些看法。

And this has everything to do with the nervous system.

这与神经系统有很大关系。

So without getting into excessive amounts of detail, the kidneys, as we talked about before, are going to regulate salt and fluid balance.

因此，无需过多讨论细节，正如我们之前讨论的，肾脏将调节盐和液体平衡。

The adrenal glands, which ride atop the kidneys, are going to make glucocorticoids like aldosterone.

位于肾脏顶部的肾上腺会产生醛固酮等糖皮质激素。

And those are going to directly impact things like fluid balance.

这些将直接影响体液平衡等问题。

And in part they do that by regulating how much craving for and tolerance of salty solutions we have.

在某种程度上，他们通过调节我们对盐溶液的渴望和耐受程度来做到这一点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And there's some really nice studies that have looked at so-called adrenalectomies.

有一些非常好的研究涉及所谓的肾上腺切除术。

Now this is an extreme case, and it's typically done in animal models, but it illustrates the role of the adrenals in salt preference.

这是一个极端的例子，通常是在动物模型中进行的，但它说明了肾上腺在盐偏好中的作用。

Basically when the glucocorticoid system, meaning the release of these particular hormones from the adrenal glands, is eliminated by adrenalectomy — ectomy means removal — then the threshold for what's considered too salty really shifts.

基本上，当糖皮质激素系统（即从肾上腺释放这些特定激素）通过肾上腺切除术消除时（切除意味着切除），那么被认为太咸的阈值就会真正发生变化。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So typically when the adrenals are intact, an animal or a human will prefer a mildly salty to moderately salty solution if given a choice.

因此，通常当肾上腺完好无损时，如果有选择的话，动物或人类会更喜欢微咸溶液而不是中咸溶液。

And at some point it's so salty that it just feels aversive, just like taking a gulp of seawater is almost always aversive.

在某些时候，它太咸了，让人感觉厌恶，就像喝一口海水几乎总是让人厌恶一样。

I can't think of an instance where it's not aversive, and actually, drinking seawater can kill you because of the high osmolarity of seawater.

我想不出一个不令人厌恶的例子，事实上，由于海水的渗透压很高，喝海水会致命。

You certainly don't want to drink seawater.

你肯定不想喝海水。

Under conditions where the adrenals are missing, animals and humans will tend to prefer a higher-sodium-concentration fluid, and they will be will willing to tolerate ingesting very high concentrations of sodium.

在肾上腺缺失的情况下，动物和人类往往更喜欢钠浓度较高的液体，并且他们愿意忍受摄入非常高浓度的钠。

Now, that's a very crude experiment and not one that you want to do, I promise you, but I mention it because it illustrates the very direct relationship between the stress system, which is the glucocorticoid system, and the salt-craving system.

现在，这是一个非常粗糙的实验，不是你想做的，我向你保证，但我提到它是因为它说明了压力系统（糖皮质激素系统）和盐渴望系统之间非常直接的关系。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And this actually makes sense.

这实际上是有道理的。

Earlier, as we were talking about hypovolemic thirst, when there's a loss of blood pressure, usually due to a loss of blood from the body, there's a salt craving in order to bring that blood volume back up, because by ingesting salt, you bring fluid into the bloodstream, you're increasing that blood pressure, and you can restore the blood that's lost.

早些时候，当我们谈论低血容量性口渴时，当血压下降时，通常是由于体内失血，就会对盐产生渴望，以便使血容量恢复，因为通过摄入盐，你将液体带入血液，你增加了血压，你可以恢复失去的血液。

Now, there are many examples where if sodium levels get too low in the bloodstream, either because people are ingesting too little salt or they are ingesting too much water and therefore excreting too much salt, that it can cause stress and anxiety.

现在，有很多例子表明，如果血液中的钠含量过低，要么是因为人们摄入的盐太少，要么是摄入太多的水，因此排出了太多的盐，就会导致压力和焦虑。

There's some really nice data that point to the fact that low dietary sodium can actually exacerbate anxiety in animal models.

有一些非常好的数据表明，低钠饮食实际上会加剧动物模型的焦虑。

And to some extent there's evidence for this in humans as well, and that should not come as a surprise.

在某种程度上，人类也有证据表明这一点，这不足为奇。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The whole basis for a relationship between the adrenal system, these glucocorticoids, things like aldosterone, and the craving for sodium is that the stress system is a generic system designed to deal with various challenges to the organism, to you or to me or to an animal.

肾上腺系统、这些糖皮质激素、醛固酮等物质以及对钠的渴望之间关系的整个基础是，压力系统是一个通用系统，旨在应对有机体（无论是对你、对我还是对动物）的各种挑战。

And those challenges can arrive in many different forms.

这些挑战可以以多种不同的形式出现。

It can be an infection.

这可能是一种感染。

It can be famine.

这可能是饥荒。

It can be lack of water, and so on.

可能是缺水等等。

But in general, the stress response is one of elevated heart rate, elevated blood pressure and an ability to maintain movement and resistance to that challenge.

但总的来说，压力反应是心率升高、血压升高以及保持运动和抵抗挑战的能力。

Okay?

好的？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I've said this before, but I'll emphasize it again.

我之前已经说过这一点，但我会再次强调。

There's this common misperception that stress makes us sick.

人们普遍存在一种误解，认为压力会使我们生病。

And indeed, if stress lasts too long, it has a number of negative effects on our health.

事实上，如果压力持续太久，就会对我们的健康产生许多负面影响。

But more often than not, if we're pushing, pushing, pushing, we're studying or taking care of somebody or traveling like crazy, we don't tend to get sick under those conditions.

但通常情况下，如果我们拼命努力、学习、照顾某人或疯狂旅行，在这些情况下我们就不会生病。

But as soon as we stop, as soon as we reduce our adrenaline output, as soon as we reduce our glucocorticoid output from our adrenals, then we will get sick.

但一旦我们停止，一旦我们减少肾上腺素的分泌，一旦我们减少肾上腺的糖皮质激素分泌，我们就会生病。

That's a very common occurrence, and it's because stress actually activates our immune system in the short term.

这是一种非常常见的现象，因为压力实际上会在短期内激活我们的免疫系统。

So I'd like to try and dispel this myth that stress actually suppresses the immune system, at least not in the short term.

因此，我想尝试消除这种误解，即压力实际上会抑制免疫系统，至少在短期内不会。

For long-term stress, it's a different issue.

对于长期压力来说，这是一个不同的问题。

You don't want long-term, ongoing stress, especially of several weeks or more.

您不希望承受长期持续的压力，尤其是几周或更长时间的压力。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Nonetheless, it makes sense that bringing sodium into the body would be at least one way that we would be wired to counteract or to resist stressors.

尽管如此，将钠带入体内至少是我们抵消或抵抗压力源的一种方式，这是有道理的。

Right?

正确的？

Stressors being the things on the outside coming at us.

压力源是来自外界的事物。

So it could be a stressful relationship, a stressful job situation, again, infection, and so on.

因此，这可能是一段充满压力的关系、一个充满压力的工作环境、感染等等。

It's clear from a number of studies that if sodium levels are too low, that our ability to meet stress challenges is impaired.

许多研究清楚地表明，如果钠含量太低，我们应对压力挑战的能力就会受到损害。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, that doesn't mean to place your sodium intake cosmically high, but it does point to the fact that if you're feeling anxious, perhaps from low blood pressure — which can also give symptoms of anxiety, as we talked about before — but even if it's independent of low blood pressure, that slightly increasing sodium intake, again, I would encourage people to do this not in the context of processed foods and drinks, but ideally in the form of maybe a little bit of sea salt in water or salting one's food a little bit more, that that can stabilize blood pressure and one's ability to lean into stressors and challenges.

现在，这并不意味着你的钠摄入量很高，但它确实指出了一个事实，如果你感到焦虑，可能是因为低血压——这也可能会带来焦虑症状，正如我们之前讨论过的——但即使它与低血压无关，稍微增加钠摄入量，我还是鼓励人们不要在加工食品和饮料的情况下这样做，但理想的形式是在水中加入一点海盐或在食物中加一点盐。更重要的是，这可以稳定血压以及一个人应对压力和挑战的能力。

And I say this because I think that most people assume that adding salt is always bad, when in fact that's simply not the case.

我这么说是因为我认为大多数人认为加盐总是不好的，但事实并非如此。

There are conditions such as when we are under stress challenge, when there's a natural craving for more sodium, and that natural craving for more sodium is hardwired into us as a way to meet that challenge.

在某些情况下，例如当我们面临压力挑战时，当我们自然渴望更多的钠时，而对更多钠的自然渴望是我们与生俱来的，作为应对这一挑战的一种方式。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So it's hard for me to know whether or not people out there, especially the listeners of this podcast, are getting too much, just enough, or too little sodium.

因此，我很难知道人们，尤其是这个播客的听众，摄入的钠是否过多、刚刚够或太少。

So I can't know that.

所以我无法知道这一点。

I'm shouting into a tunnel here.

我正在对着隧道大喊。

You have to decide how much sodium you are ingesting.

您必须决定摄入多少钠。

But I think that there's some, for most people, especially people who are not hypertensive, prehypertensive, there's some wiggle room to explore whether more intake of sodium could actually be beneficial for suppressing some of the anxiety responses that they might feel under conditions of stress.

但我认为，对于大多数人，尤其是那些没有高血压、高血压前期的人来说，有一些回旋余地来探索摄入更多的钠是否真的有利于抑制他们在压力条件下可能感受到的一些焦虑反应。

Again, more studies need to be done, certainly more studies in humans need to be done.

同样，还需要进行更多的研究，当然需要对人类进行更多的研究。

But the relationship between stress and sodium intake and the fact that additional sodium intake may be beneficial and, indeed, is naturally stimulated by stress, shouldn't be necessarily looked at as a pathological event.

但压力和钠摄入量之间的关系，以及额外摄入钠可能是有益的，而且实际上是由压力自然刺激的事实，不应被视为一种病理事件。

I know when some people get stressed, they crave salty foods.

我知道当有些人感到压力时，他们会想吃咸的食物。

That's actually a hardwired biological phenomenon that you see not just in humans, but in animals, because this is a very primitive mechanism whereby your body is preparing to meet any additional challenges and stressors.

这实际上是一种固有的生物现象，不仅在人类身上看到，在动物身上也有这种现象，因为这是一种非常原始的机制，您的身体正在准备应对任何额外的挑战和压力。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, we can't have a discussion about sodium without having a discussion about the other electrolytes, magnesium and potassium.

现在，我们不能在不讨论其他电解质（镁和钾）的情况下讨论钠。

Magnesium is important enough and an extensive enough topic that we should probably do an entire episode just on magnesium.

镁是一个足够重要、足够广泛的话题，我们可能应该用一整集来专门讨论镁。

For purposes of today's discussion, I just will briefly touch on some of the forms of magnesium that we've discussed on the podcast before in different contexts.

为了今天讨论的目的，我将简要介绍一下我们之前在播客上在不同背景下讨论过的镁的一些形式。

I want to emphasize that many people are probably getting enough magnesium in their diet, that they don't need to supplement magnesium.

我想强调的是，许多人可能从饮食中摄入了足够的镁，他们不需要补充镁。

Some people, however, opt to supplement magnesium in ways that can support them.

然而，有些人选择以支持他们的方式补充镁。

And there are many different forms of magnesium.

镁有许多不同的形式。

And just in very brief passing, I'll just say that there is some evidence that you can reduce muscle soreness from exercise by ingestion of magnesium malate, M-A-L-A-T-E.

简单地说，我只想说，有一些证据表明，您可以通过摄入苹果酸镁 M-A-L-A-T-E 来减轻运动引起的肌肉酸痛。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I've talked before about magnesium threonate, T-H-R-E-N-O-A-T-E, magnesium threonate, for sake of promoting the transition into sleep and for depth of sleep.

我之前谈到过苏糖酸镁，T-H-R-E-N-O-A-T-E，苏糖酸镁，是为了促进睡眠过渡和睡眠深度。

And perhaps — again, highlighted perhaps, because right now it's mainly animal studies and ongoing human studies, but the data aren't all in — perhaps magnesium threonate can be used as a way to support cognitive function and longevity.

也许——再次强调，因为目前主要是动物研究和正在进行的人类研究，但数据并不全部——也许苏糖酸镁可以用作支持认知功能和长寿的一种方式。

That was discussed in the episode with Dr. Jack Feldman from UCLA.

这一集与加州大学洛杉矶分校的杰克·费尔德曼博士讨论了这一点。

Typically, magnesium threonate is taken 30 to 60 minutes before bedtime, in order to encourage sleep.

通常，睡前 30 至 60 分钟服用苏糖酸镁，以促进睡眠。

You can go to our Neural Network Newsletter and look for the one on sleep.

您可以访问我们的神经网络通讯并查找有关睡眠的通讯。

And you can see the recommendations, or I should say the options for that, because again, you should always check with your physician.

你可以看到建议，或者我应该说选项，因为同样，你应该经常咨询你的医生。

Those aren't strict across-the-board recommendations.

这些并不是严格的全面建议。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then there are other forms of magnesium.

还有其他形式的镁。

Magnesium bisglycinate, which is somewhat of an alternative to threonate, not known to have cognitive-enhancing effects, but seems at least on par with magnesium threonate in terms of promoting transition into and depth of sleep, and so on.

双甘氨酸镁在某种程度上是苏糖酸盐的替代品，尚不清楚它是否具有认知增强作用，但在促进睡眠过渡和睡眠深度等方面似乎至少与苏糖酸镁相当。

There are other forms of magnesium, magnesium citrate, which has other functions.

还有其他形式的镁，柠檬酸镁，具有其他功能。

Actually, magnesium citrate is a fairly effective laxative, not known to promote sleep and things of that sort.

事实上，柠檬酸镁是一种相当有效的泻药，但不知道它能促进睡眠等。

So a lot of different forms of magnesium, and there are still other forms out there.

镁有很多不同的形式，而且还有其他形式。

Many people are not getting enough magnesium, many people are.

许多人没有摄入足够的镁，很多人都摄入了足够的镁。

Okay, so that's magnesium.

好吧，这就是镁。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Anytime we're talking about sodium balance, we have to take into consideration potassium, because the way that the kidney works and the way that sodium balance is regulated, both in the body and the brain, is that sodium and potassium are working in close concert with one another.

每当我们谈论钠平衡时，我们都必须考虑到钾，因为在身体和大脑中，肾脏的工作方式和钠平衡的调节方式是钠和钾相互密切配合。

There are a lot of different recommendations about ratios out there, and they range widely from two-to-one ratio of potassium to sodium.

关于钾与钠的比例有很多不同的建议，范围很广，从钾与钠的二比一比例不等。

I've heard it in the other direction too.

我也从另一个方向听到过。

I've heard a two-to-one sodium to potassium.

我听说过钠与钾的二比一。

The recommendations vary.

建议各不相同。

One of the sponsors of this podcast, for instance, LMNT, which I've talked about in this episode and before, the ratio there is a gram of sodium to 200 milligrams of potassium, 60 milligrams of magnesium.

这个播客的赞助商之一，例如LMNT，我在这一集和之前谈到过，一克钠与200毫克钾、60毫克镁的比例。

So there they've opted for a five-to-one ratio of sodium to potassium.

因此，他们选择了钠与钾的五比一的比例。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And of course, many people opt to make their own hydration electrolyte formulas, they'll put sea salt into some water, maybe even ingest a potassium tablet.

当然，许多人选择制作自己的水合电解质配方，他们会将海盐放入水中，甚至可能服用钾片。

It all depends on the context.

这一切都取决于上下文。

And an important contextual element is your diet.

一个重要的背景因素是你的饮食。

So for instance, carbohydrates hold water in the body.

例如，碳水化合物在体内保存水分。

So regardless of how much salt and how much fluid you're ingesting, if you're ingesting carbohydrate and you drink fluids, water, some of that fluid is going to be retained in the body.

因此，无论您摄入多少盐和多少液体，如果您摄入碳水化合物并饮用液体、水，那么一些液体将保留在体内。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, for people that are following low-carbohydrate diets, one of the most immediate effects of a low-carbohydrate diet is that you're going to excrete more water.

现在，对于遵循低碳水化合物饮食的人来说，低碳水化合物饮食最直接的影响之一就是你会排出更多的水。

And so under those conditions, you're also going to lose not just water, but you'll probably also lose sodium and potassium.

因此，在这些条件下，您不仅会失去水，而且可能还会失去钠和钾。

And so people, many people in fact, find that when they are in a lower- or low-carbohydrate diet, then they need to make sure that they're getting enough sodium and enough potassium.

因此，人们，实际上是很多人，发现当他们采用低碳水化合物或低碳水化合物饮食时，他们需要确保摄入足够的钠和钾。

And some people do that by taking 99 milligram potassium tablets every time they eat.

有些人通过每次吃饭时服用 99 毫克钾片来做到这一点。

Some people do that by ingesting more foods that contain potassium.

有些人通过摄入更多含钾食物来做到这一点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And of course, some people who are on low-carbohydrate diets do ingest vegetables or other forms of food that carry along with them potassium.

当然，一些低碳水化合物饮食的人确实会摄入蔬菜或其他含有钾的食物。

So it's quite variable from person to person.

所以这个因人而异。

I mean, you can imagine if carbohydrate holds water, water and salt balance and potassium go hand in hand and hand, that if you're on a low-carbohydrate diet, that you might need to adjust your salt intake and potassium.

我的意思是，你可以想象，如果碳水化合物保持水分，水盐平衡和钾齐头并进，如果你采用低碳水化合物饮食，你可能需要调整你的盐摄入量和钾。

And conversely that if you're on a carbohydrate-rich diet or a moderate carbohydrate diet, then you may need to ingest less sodium and less potassium.

相反，如果您采用富含碳水化合物的饮食或中等碳水化合物的饮食，那么您可能需要摄入更少的钠和钾。

And in fact, a certain amount of water is probably coming in through the foods you eat as well.

事实上，一定量的水也可能通过您吃的食物进入。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So I don't say all this to confuse you.

所以我说这些并不是为了让你感到困惑。

Again, I say this because it all depends on the context.

我再说一遍，因为这一切都取决于上下文。

I'll give yet another context that I think is fairly common nowadays, which is many people are following a pattern of eating that more or less resembles intermittent fasting or at least time-restricted feeding.

我将给出另一个我认为现在相当普遍的背景，即许多人遵循的饮食模式或多或少类似于间歇性禁食或至少是限时进食。

So they're eating between particular feeding windows, and then in the certain parts of the 24-hour cycle, not just sleep, but during certain parts of their waking cycle, they're also actively avoiding food, banking on I think either the possible, I want to say possible, longevity-promoting effects of intermittent fasting or, and/or I should say, they are banking on the fact that for many people, not eating is easier than portion control for certain parts of the day.

因此，他们在特定的进食窗口之间进食，然后在 24 小时周期的某些部分，不仅仅是睡眠，而且在清醒周期的某些部分，他们也会主动避免食物，指望我认为间歇性禁食可能产生的、我想说可能的、促进长寿的效果，或者，和/或我应该说，他们指望这样一个事实，即对于许多人来说，在一天中的某些部分，不吃东西比控制食量更容易。

And so they find it beneficial to limit calories overall to a given amount, depending on what their goals are, by not consuming food for certain periods of the day.

因此，他们发现，根据他们的目标，在一天中的某些时段不吃食物，将总体卡路里限制在给定量是有益的。

But usually during those periods of the day, they're consuming fluids.

但通常在一天中的这些时段，他们会消耗液体。

And oftentimes those fluids include not just water, but caffeine.

通常这些液体不仅包括水，还包括咖啡因。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And caffeine is a diuretic.

咖啡因是一种利尿剂。

It actually causes the excretion of fluids from the body, in part because it causes the excretion of sodium.

它实际上会导致体内液体的排泄，部分原因是它会导致钠的排泄。

All of that to say that if you're somebody who, for instance, eats your first meal around noon or 1:00 or 2:00 p.m., and you're fasting for the early part of the day, and you're drinking coffee or tea or and/or ingesting a lot of water, you are going to be excreting sodium along with that water.

所有这些都说明，如果您在中午或下午 1:00 或 2:00 左右吃第一顿饭，并且您在一天的早些时候禁食，并且喝咖啡或茶或和/或摄入大量水，那么您将随水一起排出钠。

And so many people, including myself, find that it's useful, especially when I'm drinking caffeine during that so-called fasting or non-food-intake part of time-restricted feeding, that I'm making sure to get enough salt either in the form of something like LMNT, an electrolyte drink, or putting some sea salt into some water.

很多人，包括我自己，都发现它很有用，特别是当我在所谓的禁食或限时喂养期间不摄入食物时喝咖啡因时，我会确保以 LMNT（一种电解质饮料）的形式摄入足够的盐，或者在水中加入一些海盐。

Or certainly anytime one is ingesting caffeine, replacing some of the lost water by increasing one's water intake.

或者当然，任何时候人们摄入咖啡因，都会通过增加水的摄入量来补充一些流失的水分。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There's some simple rules of thumb around this that I think can get most people into a place where they're more comfortable and functioning better, which is for every ounce of coffee or tea that you drink, I should say caffeinated coffee or tea that you drink, that you consume one-and-a-half times as much water.

我认为有一些简单的经验法则可以让大多数人变得更舒适、功能更好，也就是说，每喝一盎司咖啡或茶，我应该说，每喝一盎司含咖啡因的咖啡或茶，你就会消耗一倍半的水。

So let's say you have an eight-ounce coffee, try and drink about, you don't have to be exact, but try and drink about a 12-ounce glass of water, and you might want to put a tiny bit of sodium into that.

假设你喝了一杯 8 盎司的咖啡，尝试喝大约 12 盎司的水，你可能需要在其中加入一点点钠。

By a tiny bit, I just mean a tiny pinch of sodium.

一点点，我指的是一小撮钠。

Because remember, even if we're talking about increasing the amount of sodium intake overall, the total amount of sodium contained in salt is sufficiently high that even just a quarter teaspoon is going to really start to move that number up towards that range that's still within the safe range, but if you keep doing that all day long, you're very quickly going to get into that excessive salt intake range that is deleterious for health.

因为请记住，即使我们谈论的是增加钠的总体摄入量，盐中所含的钠总量也足够高，即使只有四分之一茶匙，也能真正开始将钠摄入量提高到仍在安全范围内的范围，但如果你整天这样做，你很快就会进入对健康有害的过量盐摄入范围。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So again, if you're consuming more caffeine, you're going to be excreting water and salt and potassium, and so you're going to have to find ways to bring water, salt, and potassium back in.

再说一次，如果你摄入更多的咖啡因，你就会排出水、盐和钾，所以你必须想办法把水、盐和钾带回来。

Again, this has to be evaluated for each of your own individual situations.

同样，这必须根据您自己的具体情况进行评估。

If you're exercising fasted, and you're doing that after drinking caffeine, then before, during, and certainly after exercise, you're going to want to replenish the fluids and electrolytes that you lost, including sodium.

如果你在喝咖啡因后禁食锻炼，那么在运动前、运动中，当然还有运动后，你会想要补充流失的液体和电解质，包括钠。

So you can imagine how this all starts to become pretty dizzying, and yet it doesn't have to be dizzy.

所以你可以想象这一切是如何开始变得相当令人眼花缭乱的，但它不一定是令人眼花缭乱的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We can provide some useful ranges that for most people will work.

我们可以提供一些对大多数人都适用的有用范围。

And so let's talk about what those ranges are, and I'm going to point you to a resource that explores what those ranges are in these various contexts of nutrition, exercise, and so on.

因此，让我们来谈谈这些范围是什么，我将向您介绍一个资源，该资源探讨了这些范围在营养、锻炼等不同背景下的范围。

The resource is a book that was authored by Dr. James DiNicolantonio.

该资源是由 James DiNicolantonio 博士撰写的一本书。

He's not a medical doctor, he's a scientist, so he's cardiovascular physiology, as well, I believe, as a doctor of pharmacy.

他不是一名医生，他是一名科学家，所以他是心血管生理学的，我相信，作为一名药学博士。

And the title of the book is "The Salt Fix." "The Salt Fix" is an interesting read, because it points to, first of all, the history of salt in society and as it relates to health.

这本书的标题是“盐修复”。 《盐修复》是一本有趣的读物，因为它首先指出了盐在社会中的历史以及它与健康的关系。

It actually emphasizes some of the major missteps, maybe even pretty drastic errors, that have been made in terms of trying to interpret the role that salt has in various ...

它实际上强调了一些重大失误，甚至可能是相当严重的错误，这些错误是在试图解释盐在各种……中的作用方面所犯的。

PART 2 OF 3 ENDS Andrew Huberman:

第 2 部分（共 3 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：

...

...

trying to interpret the role that salt has in various diseases and emphasizes some of the ways in which perhaps increasing salt can actually improve health outcomes.

试图解释盐在各种疾病中的作用，并强调增加盐可能实际上可以改善健康结果的一些方式。

And I think it strikes a pretty nice balance between what's commonly known about salt and what I believe ought to be known about salt, or at least taken into consideration.

我认为它在人们对盐的普遍了解和我认为应该了解或至少考虑到的盐之间取得了很好的平衡。

The book does provide certain recommendations, and I actually reached out to the author.

这本书确实提供了一些建议，我实际上联系了作者。

I've never met him in person or talked to him directly.

我从未见过他本人或直接与他交谈过。

And I asked him outright, I said, "How much salt do you recommend people take on average?" And he gave, of course, the appropriate caveats about prehypertension, hypertension, et cetera but made a recommendation, which I'll just share with you.

我直接问他，我说：“你建议人们平均摄入多少盐？”当然，他对高血压前期、高血压等提出了适当的警告，但也提出了建议，我将与您分享。

And if you want to learn more about the support for this recommendation, you can check out his book.

如果你想了解更多关于这个建议的支持，你可以看看他的书。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The recommendation he made was anywhere from 8 to 12 grams of salt a day, which corresponds to 3.2 to 4.8 grams of sodium.

他建议每天摄入 8 至 12 克盐，相当于 3.2 至 4.8 克钠。

So going back to the current recommendations that we talked about before, 2.3 grams of sodium per day, this is about one-and-a-half times to double the amount of sodium that's currently recommended in most circles.

回到我们之前讨论过的当前建议，每天 2.3 克钠，这大约是目前大多数圈子推荐的钠含量的一倍半。

And what this corresponds to is about 1.5 to 2 teaspoons of salt per day to arrive at that 3.2 to 4.8 grams of sodium.

这相当于每天摄入 1.5 至 2 茶匙盐，即可获得 3.2 至 4.8 克钠。

Again, this is the recommendation that was passed along for most people, most conditions, barring specific health issues.

同样，这是针对大多数人、大多数情况的建议，除非有特定的健康问题。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, what was also interesting is he pointed to a sodium-to-potassium ratio, which is 4 grams of potassium, and he also mentioned 400 milligrams of magnesium and pointed out, and I generally agree here, that many people are deficient in magnesium.

现在，同样有趣的是，他指出了钠与钾的比例，即 4 克钾，他还提到了 400 毫克镁，并指出，我基本上同意这一点，很多人都缺乏镁。

So again, that was a 3.2 to 4.8 grams of sodium, 4 grams of potassium.

同样，钠含量为 3.2 至 4.8 克，钾含量为 4 克。

You might think, "Well, gosh, that's one-and-a-half to two times the current recommendation." But we can go back to that study that was mentioned earlier in the episode, that 2011 study, where I described this sort of J-shaped curve, in which, when you look at the occurrence of these negative health events, they were fairly low at low-sodium intake, lower still at slightly higher-sodium intake, much in line with the recommendations that are made or that Dr. DiNicolantonio passed along to me.

您可能会想，“好吧，天哪，这是当前建议的一倍半到两倍。”但我们可以回到本集前面提到的那项研究，即 2011 年的研究，我在其中描述了这种 J 形曲线，其中，当你观察这些负面健康事件的发生率时，你会发现，在低钠摄入量时，这些负面健康事件的发生率相当低，在钠摄入量稍高时，它们的发生率更低，这与 DiNicolantonio 博士向我提出的建议非常一致。

And then those health risks increase quite substantially as one moves out past 6 grams of sodium, 7 grams of sodium per day.

当一个人每天摄入的钠超过 6 克或 7 克时，这些健康风险就会大幅增加。

That's when things really do seem to get hazardous.

那时事情似乎确实变得危险了。

And really, it makes sense, I think, given the consensus around this, to really avoid very high salt intake.

事实上，我认为，考虑到对此的共识，真正避免高盐摄入量是有道理的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

"The Salt Fix" describes the rationale behind those recommendations.

“盐修复”描述了这些建议背后的基本原理。

"The Salt Fix" also describes in quite beautiful detail the relationship between salt intake, potassium intake, and the relationship to the sugar consumption system.

《盐修复》还非常详细地描述了盐摄入量、钾摄入量以及与糖消耗系统之间的关系。

I'd like to pick up on this idea of the relationship between salt and sugar because I think that one key aspect of the way that salt can work and can benefit us or can harm us has to do with the way that sodium and sugar are regulated and actually perceived by the brain and how under conditions of certain levels of sodium intake we might be inspired to seek more sugar or to crave sweets more or less.

我想谈谈盐和糖之间的关系，因为我认为盐发挥作用、对我们有益或对我们有害的方式的一个关键方面与钠和糖的调节方式以及大脑实际感知的方式有关，以及在一定水平的钠摄入量的条件下，我们如何可能受到启发去寻求更多的糖或或多或少地渴望甜食。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Up until now, we've been talking about salt as a substance and a way to regulate fluid balance and blood volume, and so on.

到目前为止，我们一直在谈论盐作为一种物质以及调节体液平衡和血容量等的一种方式。

We haven't talked a lot about salt as a taste or the taste of things that are salty, and yet we know that we have salt receptors, meaning neurons that fire action potentials when salty substances are detected, much in the same way that we have sweet detectors and bitter detectors, and we have detectors of umami, the savory flavor, on our tongue.

我们没有太多谈论盐作为一种味道或咸味东西的味道，但我们知道我们有盐受体，这意味着当检测到咸味物质时会激发动作电位的神经元，就像我们有甜味探测器和苦味探测器一样，我们的舌头上也有鲜味探测器。

And earlier, at the beginning of the episode, I talked about the fact that we have sweet receptors, neurons that respond to the presence of sugar, or even noncaloric sweet things in the gut, and that signals up to the brain, through the vagus nerve, and those signals converge on pathways that relate to dopamine, and so on.

早些时候，在本集的开头，我谈到了这样一个事实：我们有甜味受体，神经元对肠道中的糖甚至无热量甜味物质的存在做出反应，并通过迷走神经向大脑发出信号，这些信号汇聚在与多巴胺相关的通路上，等等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Well, we also have salt sensors at various locations throughout our digestive tract.

嗯，我们消化道的各个位置也有盐传感器。

Although, the sensation and the taste of salt actually exerts a very robust effect on certain areas of the brain that can either make us crave more or sate, meaning fulfill, our desire for salt.

尽管如此，盐的感觉和味道实际上对大脑的某些区域产生了非常强烈的影响，可以使我们渴望更多或满足（意思是满足）我们对盐的渴望。

And you can imagine why this would be important.

您可以想象为什么这很重要。

Your brain actually has to register whether or not you're bringing in salt in order to know whether or not you are going to crave salt more or not.

实际上，你的大脑必须记录你是否摄入了盐，才能知道你是否会更加渴望盐。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And beautiful work that's been done by the Zuker Lab, Z-U-K-E-R, Zuker Lab at Columbia University, as well as many other labs, have used imaging techniques and other techniques, such as molecular biology, to define these so-called parallel pathways.

Zuker 实验室、Z-U-K-E-R、哥伦比亚大学 Zuker 实验室以及许多其他实验室所做的出色工作，使用成像技术和其他技术（例如分子生物学）来定义这些所谓的并行路径。

Parallel meaning pathways that represent sweet or the presence of sweet taste in the mouth and gut.

代表甜味或口腔和肠道中存在甜味的平行意义通路。

Parallel pathways meaning neural circuits that represent the presence of salty tastes in the mouth and gut, and so on, and that those go into the brain, move up through brain stem centers and up to the neocortex, indeed where our seat of our conscious perception is, to give us a sense and a perception of the components of the foods that we happen to be ingesting, and a sense and a perception of the fluids and the components of those fluids that we happen to be ingesting.

平行通路意味着代表口腔和肠道等中存在咸味的神经回路，这些神经回路进入大脑，通过脑干中心向上移动到新皮质，实际上是我们有意识感知的所在地，让我们对我们碰巧摄入的食物成分有感觉和知觉，以及对我们碰巧摄入的液体和这些液体成分的感觉和知觉。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, parallel pathways, as I'm describing them, are a fundamental feature of every sensory system, not just the taste system, but also the visual system.

现在，正如我所描述的，平行通路是每个感觉系统的基本特征，不仅是味觉系统，而且是视觉系统。

We have parallel pathways for perceiving dark objects versus light objects, for perceiving red versus green, et cetera.

我们在感知深色物体与浅色物体、感知红色与绿色等方面有平行的路径。

This is a fundamental feature of how we are built and how our nervous system works.

这是我们的构造和神经系统如何运作的一个基本特征。

And in the taste system, much like in these other systems, these pathways are indeed parallel, but they converge, and they can influence one another.

在味觉系统中，就像在其他系统中一样，这些路径确实是平行的，但它们会聚合，并且可以相互影响。

And I think the simplest way to put this is in the context, first, of the visual system, whereby your ability to detect the color red has everything to do with the fact that you have neurons in your eye that absorb long wavelengths of light that we call reds, red wavelengths of light, which are longer wavelengths than, say, blue light, which is shorter wavelength.

我认为最简单的说法是首先在视觉系统的背景下，您检测红色的能力与您眼睛中的神经元吸收长波长的光（我们称之为红色）的事实有关，红色波长的光，其波长比蓝光（波长较短）更长。

But it is really the comparison of the electrical activity of the neurons that absorb red light with the activity of the neurons that absorb green light which actually gives you the perception of red.

但实际上，正是吸收红光的神经元的电活动与吸收绿光的神经元的活动的比较，才让你真正感受到红色。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So that might seem a little counterintuitive, but indeed, it's not.

这可能看起来有点违反直觉，但事实上并非如此。

It's actually because something is red and has less greenness that we perceive it as more red than the green.

实际上，因为某些东西是红色的并且绿色较少，所以我们认为它比绿色更红。

And this is actually the way that your entire nervous system works, is that we aren't really good at evaluating absolute levels of anything in the context of perception, it's only by comparison.

这实际上是整个神经系统的工作方式，我们并不擅长在感知的背景下评估任何事物的绝对水平，而只是通过比较。

And actually, there's a fun experiment that you can do.

事实上，你可以做一个有趣的实验。

I think you could probably find it easily online, but you could also do this experiment at home.

我想你可以很容易地在网上找到它，但你也可以在家里做这个实验。

You can stare at something that's red, or green for that matter, for a while.

你可以盯着红色或绿色的东西看一会儿。

So you make an active decision to not blink and to stare at something that's red, and then you look away from that thing, and you'll actually see a green afterimage of that red object.

所以你主动决定不眨眼，盯着红色的东西，然后你把目光从那个东西上移开，你实际上会看到那个红色物体的绿色残像。

Conversely, if you look at something that's green for a while and you stare at it and you look away, you will see the red afterimage of that thing.

相反，如果你盯着绿色的东西看了一会儿，然后盯着它看，然后把目光移开，你会看到那个东西的红色残像。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, the taste system doesn't have quite the same aftertaste-type effect, but nonetheless, the pathways, the parallel pathways for salty and the parallel pathways for sweet and bitter, and so on, can actually interact.

现在，味觉系统并不具有完全相同的余味类型效应，但尽管如此，咸味的平行通路以及甜味和苦味的平行通路等实际上可以相互作用。

And this has important relevance in the context of food choices and sugar craving.

这与食物选择和对糖的渴望有着重要的相关性。

One of the things that's commonplace nowadays is in many processed foods there is a business, literally, a business of putting so-called hidden sugars — and these hidden sugars are not always in the form of caloric sugars, they're sometimes in the form of artificial sweeteners — into various foods.

如今很常见的一件事是，在许多加工食品中，有一种业务，从字面上看，就是一种将所谓的隐藏糖——这些隐藏糖并不总是以热量糖的形式，它们有时以人造甜味剂的形式——放入各种食品中的业务。

And you might say, "Well, why would they put more sugar into a food and then disguise the sugary taste, given that sweet tastes often compel people to eat more of these things?" Well, it's a way actually of bypassing some of the homeostatic mechanisms for sweet.

你可能会说，“既然甜味常常迫使人们吃更多这些东西，为什么他们会在食物中加入更多的糖，然后掩盖含糖的味道呢？”嗯，这实际上是绕过一些甜味稳态机制的一种方法。

Even though we might think that the more sweet stuff we eat, the more sweet stuff we crave, in general people have a threshold, whereby they say, "Okay, I've had enough sugary stuff."

尽管我们可能认为我们吃的甜食越多，我们就越渴望甜食，但一般来说，人们都有一个阈值，他们会说：“好吧，我已经吃够了含糖的东西。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You can actually experience this.

你可以实际体验一下这一点。

If you ever feel like something is really, really sweet, take a little sip of water with a little bit of lemon juice in it or vinegar, and it will quickly quench that overly sweet sensation or perception.

如果你觉得某样东西真的非常甜，喝一小口水，加一点柠檬汁或醋，它会很快消除那种过甜的感觉或感觉。

It'll disappear almost immediately.

它几乎会立即消失。

There's actually a practice in fancy meals of cleansing the palette through the ingestion of different foods.

实际上，在美食中存在一种通过摄入不同食物来清洁调色板的做法。

And that's the same idea, that you're cleansing the palate, you're actually neutralizing the previous taste so then they can bring yet another dish to overindulge you in decadence, and so forth.

这是同样的想法，你在净化味觉，你实际上是在中和以前的味道，这样他们就可以带来另一道菜让你过度沉迷于颓废，等等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So these sensory systems interact in this way by putting sugars into foods and hiding the sugary taste of those foods.

因此，这些感觉系统通过将糖放入食物中并隐藏这些食物的含糖味道来以这种方式相互作用。

Those foods, even if they contain artificial sweeteners, can activate the sorts of neurons that we talked about at the beginning of the episode, like the neuropod cells, that will then signal to the brain to release more dopamine and make you crave more of that food, whereas had you been able to perceive the true sweetness of that food, you might have consumed less.

这些食物，即使它们含有人工甜味剂，也可以激活我们在剧集开始时谈到的神经元，比如神经足细胞，然后它们会向大脑发出信号，释放更多的多巴胺，让你渴望更多的食物，而如果你能够感知到食物的真正甜味，你可能会吃得更少。

And indeed, that's what happens.

事实上，事情就是这样发生的。

So these hidden sugars are kind of diabolical.

所以这些隐藏的糖是一种恶魔。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Why am I talking about all of this in the context of an episode on salt?

为什么我要在关于盐的一集的背景下谈论所有这些？

Well, as many of you have probably noticed, a lot of foods out there contain a salty-sweet combination.

嗯，正如你们许多人可能已经注意到的那样，很多食物都含有咸甜组合。

And it's that combination of salty and sweet which can actually lead you to consume more of the salty-sweet food than you would have if it had just been sweet or it had just been salty.

正是这种咸味和甜味的结合，实际上会导致你摄入更多的咸甜食物，而不是仅仅吃甜的或咸的食物。

And that's because both sweet taste and salty taste have a homeostatic balance.

这是因为甜味和咸味都具有稳态平衡。

So if you ingest something that's very, very salty, pretty soon your appetite for salty foods will be reduced.

因此，如果您摄入非常非常咸的东西，很快您对咸食物的胃口就会减少。

But if you mask some of that with sweet, well, because of the interactions of these parallel pathways, you somewhat shut down your perception of how much salt you're ingesting.

但如果你用甜味掩盖其中的一些，那么，由于这些平行途径的相互作用，你会在某种程度上关闭对自己摄入了多少盐的感知。

Or conversely, by ingesting some salt with sweet foods, you mask some of the sweetness of the sweet foods that you're tasting, and you will continue to indulge in those foods.

或者相反，通过在甜食中摄入一些盐，您可以掩盖您正在品尝的甜食的一些甜味，并且您将继续沉迷于这些食物。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So salty-sweet interactions can be very diabolical, they can also be very tasty, but they can be very diabolical in terms of inspiring you to eat more of a particular food than you would otherwise if you were just following your homeostatic salt- or your homeostatic sugar-balance systems.

因此，咸甜相互作用可以是非常邪恶的，它们也可以非常美味，但它们可以非常邪恶地激励您吃更多特定的食物，而不是如果您只是遵循体内平衡盐或体内平衡糖平衡系统。

And the beautiful imaging work that's been done by the Zuker Lab and other labs has actually been able to reveal how some of this might work, by showing, for instance, that a certain ensemble, meaning a certain group of neurons, is activated by a sweet taste.

Zuker 实验室和其他实验室所做的精美成像工作实际上已经能够揭示其中一些可能如何发挥作用，例如，通过显示特定的整体（即特定的神经元组）被甜味激活。

And a nonoverlapping, distinct set of neurons just nearby, sitting cheek to jowl with those other neurons, would be activated by salty taste, and yet others by bitter taste, et cetera.

附近有一组不重叠的、独特的神经元，与其他神经元紧挨着，咸味会激活，而苦味会激活其他神经元，等等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So there's a separate map of these different parallel pathways, but that when foods or fluids are ingested that are both salty and sweet, you get a yet entirely different ensemble of neurons activated.

因此，这些不同的平行通路有一个单独的地图，但是当摄入咸和甜的食物或液体时，你会激活一组完全不同的神经元。

So your brain, whether or not it's for your visual system or your auditory system or your taste system, has a way of representing the pure form of taste, salty, sweet, bitter, et cetera and has a way of representing their combinations.

所以你的大脑，无论是视觉系统、听觉系统还是味觉系统，都有一种方式来代表味道的纯粹形式，咸的、甜的、苦的等等，并且有一种方式来代表它们的组合。

And food manufacturers have exploited this to a large degree.

食品制造商在很大程度上利用了这一点。

I mention all of this because if you're somebody who's looking to explore either increasing or decreasing your sodium intake for health benefits, for performance benefits, in many ways it is useful to do that in the context of a fairly pure, meaning unprocessed, food intake background, whether or not that's keto, carnivore, omnivore, intermittent fasting, or what have you, it doesn't really matter.

我提到所有这些是因为，如果你是一个想要探索增加或减少钠摄入量以获得健康益处、性能益处的人，那么在很多方面，在相当纯粹的、未加工的食物摄入背景下这样做是有用的，无论是生酮、肉食动物、杂食动物、间歇性禁食，还是你有什么，这并不重要。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But the closer that foods are to their basic form and taste, meaning not combinations of large amounts of ingredients, and certainly avoiding highly processed foods, the more quickly you're going to be able to hone in on your specific salt appetite and salt needs, which as I've pointed out numerous times throughout this episode, are going to vary from person to person, depending on nutrition, depending on activity, depending on hormone status, or even portion of your menstrual cycle, for that matter.

但是，食物越接近它们的基本形式和味道，意味着不是大量成分的组合，当然也要避免高度加工的食物，你就能越快地磨练你特定的盐食欲和盐需求，正如我在本集中多次指出的那样，这将因人而异，取决于营养，取决于活动，取决于激素状态，甚至取决于你的月经周期的一部分。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So if you want to hone in on the appropriate amount of sodium for you, yes, blood pressure is going to be an important metric to pay attention to as you go along.

因此，如果您想确定适合自己的钠摄入量，是的，血压将是您在饮食过程中需要注意的一个重要指标。

And the parameters for healthy blood pressure ranges are readily available online, so I'll let you refer to those in order to determine those for yourself.

健康血压范围的参数很容易在网上找到，所以我会让你参考这些参数，以便自己确定。

But in determining whether or not increasing your salt intake might be beneficial, for instance, for reducing anxiety a bit or for increasing blood pressure to offset some of these postural syndromes where you get dizzy, et cetera, for improving sports performance or cognitive performance, I can only recommend that you do this in a fairly clean context where you're not trying to do this by ingesting a bunch of salty foods or salty-sweet foods, et cetera.

但在确定增加盐摄入量是否有益时，例如，为了减少一点焦虑，或者为了增加血压以抵消一些使你头晕的姿势综合症，等等，为了提高运动表现或认知能力，我只能建议你在一个相当干净的环境中这样做，不要试图通过摄入一堆咸味食物或咸甜食物等来做到这一点。

And indeed, many people find, and it's reviewed a bit and some of the data are reviewed in the book "The Salt Fix," that when people increase their salt intake in a backdrop of relatively unprocessed foods, that sugar cravings can indeed be vastly reduced.

事实上，许多人发现，并且在《盐修复》一书中回顾了一些数据，当人们在相对未经加工的食物的背景下增加盐的摄入量时，对糖的渴望确实可以大大减少。

And that makes sense, given the way that these neural pathways for salty and sweet interact.

考虑到这些咸味和甜味的神经通路相互作用的方式，这是有道理的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now thus far, I've already covered quite a lot of material, but I would be completely remiss if I didn't emphasize the crucial role that sodium plays in the way that neurons function.

到目前为止，我已经介绍了相当多的材料，但如果我不强调钠在神经元功能中发挥的关键作用，那我就完全失职了。

In fact, sodium is one of the key elements that allows neurons to function at all, and that's by way of engaging what we call the action potential.

事实上，钠是神经元发挥功能的关键元素之一，这是通过激活我们所说的动作电位来实现的。

The action potential is the firing of electrical activity by neurons.

动作电位是神经元发出的电活动。

Neurons can engage electrical activity in a number of different ways.

神经元可以通过多种不同的方式参与电活动。

They have graded potentials, they have gap junctions.

它们具有分级电位，它们具有间隙连接。

There's a whole landscape of different electrophysiology of neurons that I don't want to go into just yet, at least not in this episode, but the action potential is the fundamental way in which neurons communicate with one another.

我还不想深入探讨神经元的不同电生理学的整个景观，至少在这一集中不是这样，但动作电位是神经元相互交流的基本方式。

They're sometimes called spikes, it's just kind of nomenclature that neuroscientists use.

它们有时被称为尖峰，这只是神经科学家使用的一种术语。

I'm just going to briefly describe the action potential and the role that sodium plays.

我将简要描述动作电位和钠所起的作用。

And this will involve a little bit of chemistry, but I promise it will be accessible to anyone, even if you don't have a chemistry or a physics background or electrophysiology background.

这将涉及一点化学知识，但我保证任何人都可以理解它，即使您没有化学或物理背景或电生理学背景。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Neurons have an inside and an outside.

神经元有内部和外部。

And inside are things like your genetic material.

里面是像你的遗传物质这样的东西。

They have a bunch of things floating around in there that allow those cells to function.

它们里面漂浮着一堆东西，使这些细胞能够发挥作用。

And they tend to have this wire extending out of them, sometimes a very long wire, sometimes a short one, that we call the axon.

它们往往有一根线延伸出来，有时是很长的线，有时是很短的线，我们称之为轴突。

And at the end of that wire, that axon, they release little packets of chemicals that either cause the next neuron to fire action potentials or prevent the next neuron from firing action potentials.

在那根电线的末端，即轴突，它们释放出小包化学物质，这些化学物质要么导致下一个神经元激发动作电位，要么阻止下一个神经元激发动作电位。

So they kind of vomit out these little packets of chemicals that either inspire or suppress action potentials in other neurons.

因此，它们会吐出这些小包化学物质，这些化学物质会激发或抑制其他神经元的动作电位。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The way that that whole process occurs is that a given neuron needs to change its electrical activity.

整个过程发生的方式是给定的神经元需要改变其电活动。

So normally, neurons are hanging out, and they have what we call a negative charge.

所以正常情况下，神经元是闲置的，它们带有我们所说的负电荷。

And the reason they have a negative charge is that the inside of the cell has things floating around in it, like potassium, a little bit of sodium, and some stuff like chloride.

它们带负电荷的原因是细胞内部漂浮着一些东西，比如钾、一点钠和一些东西，比如氯化物。

Just imagine these as little balls of stuff, and if they have a negative charge on them, then the inside of the cell is going to tend to be more negative, and outside of the cell, it turns out you're going to have a bunch of stuff that's positively charged.

想象一下这些东西的小球，如果它们上面带负电荷，那么细胞内部往往会带更多的负电荷，而在细胞外部，结果会出现一堆带正电荷的东西。

And one of the main factors in creating that positive charge is sodium.

产生正电荷的主要因素之一是钠。

Sodium carries a positive charge.

钠带有正电荷。

So you have neurons that you can just imagine, for sake of this discussion, you can just imagine as a sphere with a little wire sticking out of it.

因此，您可以想象神经元，为了便于讨论，您可以将其想象为一个球体，其中伸出一根小电线。

You can put a little minus on the inside for negative.

你可以在里面加一点负号作为负数。

You can put a little plus on the outside for positive.

你可以在外面加一点点以表示积极。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And when that neuron is stimulated by another neuron, if the stimulation, the electrical stimulation, is sufficiently high, meaning enough little packets of neurotransmitter have been vomited onto its surface at sufficient concentration, what happens is little pores, little spaces, little gaps open up in the membrane of that cell that separates the inside from the outside.

当该神经元受到另一个神经元的刺激时，如果刺激（即电刺激）足够高，意味着足够多的小包神经递质以足够的浓度被吐到其表面，就会发生在该细胞的膜上打开小孔、小空间、小间隙，将内部与外部分开。

And because it's positive, there's a lot of positive charge outside and there's a lot of negative inside, it's like a boulder running downhill, all the stuff tends to rush downhill.

因为它是正的，所以外面有很多正电荷，里面有很多负电荷，就像一块下坡的巨石，所有的东西都会冲下坡。

It tries to create even amounts of charge.

它试图产生均匀的电荷。

So it's negative on the inside, positive on the outside.

所以它的内部是消极的，外部是积极的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And what happens is sodium rushes into the cell carrying a lot of charge into the cell.

发生的情况是钠冲入细胞，并携带大量电荷进入细胞。

And as a consequence, the charge of that cell goes from negative, actually very negative, to quite positive.

结果，该细胞的电荷从负（实际上非​​常负）变为非常正。

And if it hits a certain threshold of positive charge because of all the sodium ions going into the cell, then it fires what's called an action potential, and it vomits out its own set of chemicals onto the next neuron.

如果由于所有钠离子进入细胞而达到一定的正电荷阈值，那么它就会激发所谓的动作电位，并将自己的一组化学物质吐到下一个神经元上。

And so it sets off a chain of one neuron goes from negative to positive, vomits out chemicals onto the next one.

因此，它引发了一个神经元链从负向正向转变，将化学物质吐出到下一个神经元上。

The next neuron, that binds to receptors or enters the cell and that cell goes from negative to positive charge, vomits its contents onto the next cell, and so on, and so forth.

下一个神经元与受体结合或进入细胞，并且该细胞从负电荷变为正电荷，将其内容物吐到下一个细胞上，依此类推。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Sodium rushing into the cell, therefore, is the way that the action potential is stimulated.

因此，钠冲入细胞是刺激动作电位的方式。

In other words, sodium is the way that neurons communicate with one another.

换句话说，钠是神经元相互交流的方式。

Now, the neurons don't stay in a positive charge, otherwise they would just keep vomiting out their contents.

现在，神经元不再保持正电荷，否则它们只会不断吐出它们的内容物。

But they need to maintain some of that and they need to go back to preparing to do it the next time and the next time by resting a bit.

但他们需要保持一些这样的状态，并且需要休息一下，为下一次和下一次做准备。

And it turns out that the way they restore their charge is by pushing that sodium back out of the cell.

事实证明，它们恢复电荷的方式是将钠推回细胞外。

There are mechanisms in place to do that, things like the so-called sodium-potassium pump.

有一些机制可以做到这一点，比如所谓的钠钾泵。

There's a change in the levels of the potassium across the cell membrane, and so on, and so forth.

细胞膜上的钾含量发生了变化，等等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If you want to look at a demonstration of this, you can put into a web browser the action potential.

如果您想查看此演示，您可以将动作电位放入网络浏览器中。

You'll find some beautiful descriptions there on YouTube and elsewhere.

您会在 YouTube 和其他地方找到一些精彩的描述。

Maybe sometime on Instagram I'll do a description with a diagram because I realize a number of people are just listening to this.

也许有一天我会在 Instagram 上用图表进行描述，因为我意识到很多人只是在听这个。

I can't do that here.

我在这里不能这样做。

I won't do that here because I want everyone to be able to get the same amount of material, regardless of whether or not they're watching or listening to this.

我不会在这里这样做，因为我希望每个人都能够获得相同数量的材料，无论他们是否正在观看或收听此内容。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But the point I'd like to make, at least as it relates to this episode on salt, is that having sufficient levels of salt in your system allows your brain to function, allows your nervous system to function at all.

但我想指出的一点是，至少在与盐有关的这一事件中，您的系统中含有足够的盐可以让您的大脑正常运转，让您的神经系统正常运转。

Again, this is the most basic aspect of nervous system function.

同样，这是神经系统功能最基本的方面。

And there are cases where this whole system gets disrupted, and that brings us to the topic of sodium and water balance.

在某些情况下，整个系统会受到干扰，这让我们想到了钠和水平衡的话题。

As many of you have probably heard, but hopefully if you haven't, you'll take this message seriously.

你们中的许多人可能都听说过，但希望如果您还没有听说过，您会认真对待此消息。

If you drink too much water, especially in a short amount of time, you can actually kill yourself, right?

如果你喝太多水，尤其是在短时间内喝太多水，你实际上可能会自杀，对吧？

And we certainly don't want that to happen.

我们当然不希望这种情况发生。

If you ingest a lot of water in a very short period of time, something called hypernatremia, you will excrete a lot of sodium very quickly, and your ability to regulate kidney function will be disrupted.

如果你在很短的时间内摄入大量的水，即所谓的高钠血症，你会很快排出大量的钠，你调节肾功能的能力就会受到干扰。

But in addition to that, your brain can actually stop functioning.

但除此之外，你的大脑实际上可能会停止运作。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So people have actually consumed water to excess, especially after sports events, and so forth.

因此，人们实际上消耗了过量的水，尤其是在体育赛事之后等等。

And if that water doesn't contain sufficient electrolytes, you can actually shut down neurons' ability to function at all by disrupting this balance of sodium and potassium and the amount of extracellular sodium and neurons' ability to signal to one another through action potentials.

如果水中不含足够的电解质，实际上可以通过破坏钠和钾的平衡以及细胞外钠的量和神经元通过动作电位向彼此发送信号的能力来完全关闭神经元的功能。

And I can't emphasize the importance of action potentials enough.

我怎么强调动作电位的重要性都不为过。

They are the way that I can lift my pen right now, they're the way that I can speak, they're the way that you breathe.

它们是我现在提笔的方式，它们是我说话的方式，它们是你呼吸的方式。

They literally control all aspects of your nervous system function.

它们确实控制着神经系统功能的各个方面。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, it takes quite a lot of water intake before you excrete enough sodium that your nervous system is going to shut down.

现在，您需要摄入大量的水才能排出足够的钠以使您的神经系统停止运转。

And I certainly don't want to give the impression that simply by ingesting more sodium, your neurons will work better.

我当然不想给人留下这样的印象：只要摄入更多的钠，你的神经元就会更好地工作。

But it absolutely is the case that if you don't ingest enough sodium that your neurons won't function as well as they could, and that if your sodium levels are made too low, by hemorrhage or by ingesting so much water, fluid that you excrete excess amounts of sodium, or through any other mechanism, that is, then indeed, your neurons won't be able to fire action potentials, and your brain and nervous system simply won't work.

但绝对的情况是，如果你没有摄入足够的钠，你的神经元将无法发挥应有的功能，并且如果你的钠水平过低，由于出血或摄入过多的水、液体而导致你排出过量的钠，或者通过任何其他机制，那么你的神经元实际上将无法激发动作电位，你的大脑和神经系统根本无法工作。

And that's one of the primary reasons why dehydration leads to confusion and dizziness and lack of coordination.

这就是脱水导致混乱、头晕和缺乏协调性的主要原因之一。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And I've talked about this a bit in the episode on endurance, but there are instances in which competitive athletes have come into the stadium to finish a final lap of a long-endurance race and are completely disoriented and actually can't find their way to the finish line.

我在关于耐力的一集中谈到了这一点，但有些情况下，竞技运动员进入体育场完成长耐力比赛的最后一圈，却完全迷失了方向，实际上找不到到达终点线的路。

It might sound like a silly, crazy example, but there are examples of people having severe mental issues and physical issues postexercise when that exercise involved a ton of sweating or hot environments or insufficient ingestion of fluids and electrolytes, because included in the electrolyte formula, of course, is sodium.

这听起来可能是一个愚蠢、疯狂的例子，但有一些例子表明，当运动涉及大量出汗或炎热的环境或液体和电解质摄入不足时，人们在运动后会出现严重的精神问题和身体问题，因为当然，电解质配方中包含钠。

And as you just learned, sodium is absolutely crucial for neurons to function.

正如您刚刚了解到的，钠对于神经元的功能绝对至关重要。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So to briefly recap some of what I've talked about today, we talked about how the brain monitors the amount of salt in your brain and body, and how that relates to thirst and the drive to consume more fluid and/or salty fluids.

因此，为了简要回顾一下我今天所讨论的一些内容，我们讨论了大脑如何监测大脑和身体中的盐含量，以及它与口渴以及消耗更多液体和/或咸味液体的动力之间的关系。

We also talked a little bit about the hormones that come from the brain and operate at the level of the kidney in order to either retain or allow water to leave your system.

我们还讨论了一些来自大脑并在肾脏水平发挥作用的激素，以保留或允许水离开您的系统。

We talked a little bit about the function of the kidney itself, a beautiful organ.

我们讨论了肾脏本身的功能，肾脏是一个美丽的器官。

We talked about the relationship between salt intake and various health parameters, and how a particular range of salt intake might be optimal depending on the context in which that range is being consumed, meaning, depending on whether or not you're hypertensive, prehypertensive, or normal tension.

我们讨论了盐摄入量与各种健康参数之间的关系，以及特定范围的盐摄入量如何可能是最佳的，具体取决于该范围的摄入环境，也就是说，取决于您是否患有高血压、高血压前期或正常紧张。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We talked about fluid intake and electrolyte intake, so sodium, potassium, and magnesium in the context of athletic or sports performance, but also in terms of maintaining cognitive function.

我们讨论了液体摄入量和电解质摄入量，以及运动或运动表现方面的钠、钾和镁，而且还讨论了维持认知功能。

We talked about the Galpin equation, which you could easily adapt to your body weight and to your circumstances.

我们讨论了加尔平方程，您可以轻松地适应您的体重和环境。

Of course, adjusting the amount of fluid and electrolyte intake upwards if you're exercising or working in very hot environments, downwards, maybe if you're in less hot environments where you're sweating less and so on.

当然，如果您在非常热的环境中锻炼或工作，则向上调整液体和电解质的摄入量；如果您处于不太热的环境中出汗较少等情况，则可能会向下调整液体和电解质的摄入量。

We also talked about the relationship between the stress system and the salt-craving system and why those two systems interact, and why for some people who may suffer a bit from anxiety or under conditions of stress, increasing salt intake, provided it's done through healthy means, might actually be beneficial.

我们还讨论了压力系统和盐渴望系统之间的关系，以及为什么这两个系统相互作用，以及为什么对于一些可能患有焦虑症或处于压力条件下的人来说，增加盐摄入量（如果通过健康的方式完成）实际上可能是有益的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We also talked about conditions in which increasing salt intake might be beneficial for offsetting low blood pressure and some of these postural syndromes that can lead people to dizziness, and so forth.

我们还讨论了增加盐摄入量可能有益于抵消低血压的情况，以及一些可能导致人们头晕的姿势综合症等。

These are things that have to be explored on an individual basis and, of course, have to be explored with the support of your doctor.

这些事情必须根据个人情况进行探索，当然也必须在医生的支持下进行探索。

I mentioned "The Salt Fix," which I think is an interesting read, keeping in mind that a lot of the information in there runs counter to the typical narrative that you hear around salt, but nonetheless has some very interesting points that you might want to consider, and certainly will broaden your view of the history of and the applications of salt as it relates to a great number of health and performance metrics.

我提到了《盐修复》，我认为这是一本有趣的读物，请记住，其中的许多信息与您听到的有关盐的典型叙述背道而驰，但仍然有一些非常有趣的观点您可能需要考虑，并且肯定会拓宽您对盐的历史和应用的看法，因为它与大量的健康和性能指标相关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We also talked about the perception of salt, meaning the perception of salty taste and how the perception of salty taste and the perception of other tastes, like sweet, can interact with one another to drive things like increased sugar intake when you're not even aware of it, and indeed, how the combination of salty and sweet taste can bias you towards craving more, for instance, processed foods, and why that might be a good thing to avoid.

我们还讨论了对盐的感知，即对咸味的感知，以及对咸味的感知和对甜味等其他味道的感知如何相互作用，从而在您甚至没有意识到的情况下导致糖摄入量增加等，事实上，咸味和甜味的结合如何使您偏向于渴望更多，例如加工食品，以及为什么这可能是一件应该避免的事情。

And of course, we talked about salt and its critical role in the action potential, the fundamental way in which the nervous system functions at all.

当然，我们讨论了盐及其在动作电位中的关键作用，动作电位是神经系统发挥作用的基本方式。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So my hope for you in listening to this episode is that you consider a question, and that question is, what salt intake is best for you, and that you place that question in the context of your fluid intake, you place that in the context of the diet you're following, the amount of caffeine you might be ingesting, and the diuretic effects of caffeine, and crucially that you place that in the context of the electrolytes more generally, meaning sodium, potassium, and magnesium.

所以我希望你在听这一集的时候考虑一个问题，这个问题是，什么盐的摄入量最适合你，你把这个问题放在你的液体摄入量的背景下，你把它放在你所遵循的饮食的背景下，你可能摄入的咖啡因的量，以及咖啡因的利尿作用，最重要的是，你把它放在更普遍的电解质的背景下，即钠、钾和镁。

Someday there will be an online program or an app, I imagine, where one could put a bunch of different parameters in about their particular health status, their particular diet, their particular exercise, et cetera.

我想，有一天将会有一个在线程序或应用程序，人们可以在其中输入一堆关于他们特定的健康状况、特定的饮食、特定的运动等等的不同参数。

Maybe it would all be run by AI algorithm or something, where it would monitor all of that for us, and then it would spit out for us a precise amount of sodium that we should take in each day.

也许这一切都会由人工智能算法或其他东西来运行，它会为我们监控所有这些，然后它会为我们吐出我们每天应该摄入的精确量的钠。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Unfortunately, no such tool or device exists right now, and so all of us have to figure out the appropriate amount of sodium intake for ourselves, and that has to be done under these contextual considerations.

不幸的是，目前还没有这样的工具或设备，因此我们所有人都必须计算出适合自己的钠摄入量，并且必须在这些背景考虑下完成。

Who knows, maybe one of you will design such an app or such a device.

谁知道呢，也许你们中的一个人会设计这样的应用程序或这样的设备。

I think it would be very useful.

我认为这会非常有用。

If nothing else, today's discussion ought to illuminate the fact that some strict recommendation of salt intake cannot be made universally across the board for everybody.

如果不出意外的话，今天的讨论应该阐明这样一个事实：一些严格的盐摄入量建议不能普遍适用于所有人。

There's just simply no way that could be done.

根本没有办法做到这一点。

And yet, I think most of what we've learned about salt in the general discussions around health are that it's this evil substance.

然而，我认为我们在有关健康的一般讨论中对盐的了解大多是它是一种邪恶的物质。

Nothing could be further from the truth.

事实并非如此。

It's an incredible substance.

这是一种令人难以置信的物质。

Our physiology is dependent on it, our cognition is dependent on it.

我们的生理机能依赖于它，我们的认知也依赖于它。

Indeed, our mental and physical health and our performance in essentially all aspects of life is dependent on it.

事实上，我们的身心健康以及我们在生活的各个方面的表现基本上都取决于它。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And I hope I've been able to illuminate some of the beautiful ways in which the brain and the bodily organs interact in order to help us regulate this thing that we call sodium balance.

我希望我能够阐明大脑和身体器官相互作用的一些美丽方式，以帮助我们调节我们称之为钠平衡的东西。

And the fact that we have neurons in our brain that are both tuned to the levels of salt in our body and positioned in a location in the brain that allows them to detect the levels of salt in our body and to drive the intake of more or less salt and more or less fluid and other electrolytes, really just points to the beauty of the system that we've all evolved that allows us to interact with our environment and make adjustments according to the context of our daily and ongoing life.

事实上，我们大脑中的神经元既能适应我们体内的盐含量，又能定位在大脑中的某个位置，使它们能够检测我们体内的盐含量，并驱动摄入更多或更少的盐、更多或更少的液体和其他电解质，这实际上表明了我们所进化的系统的美妙之处，它使我们能够与环境互动，并根据我们的日常生活和持续生活的背景进行调整。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.

如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。

That's a terrific, zero-cost way to support us.

这是支持我们的绝佳且零成本的方式。

In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on Spotify and/or Apple.

此外，请订阅 Spotify 和/或 Apple 上的播客。

And on Apple, you have the opportunity to leave us up to a five-star review, and you can also leave us a comment.

而在苹果上，您有机会给我们留下五星级的评价，也可以给我们留下评论。

The best place to leave us comments, however, is on the YouTube channel.

不过，给我们留下评论的最佳地点是 YouTube 频道。

There, you can make suggestions about future podcast guests that you'd like us to interview, future podcast topics that you'd like us to cover, and of course, you can give us feedback about the content of this or other podcasts.

在那里，您可以就您希望我们采访的未来播客嘉宾、您希望我们涵盖的未来播客主题提出建议，当然，您也可以向我们提供有关此播客或其他播客内容的反馈。

We do read all those comments.

我们确实阅读了所有这些评论。

Please also check out our sponsors mentioned at the beginning of today's episode.

另请查看今天节目开头提到的我们的赞助商。

That's the best way to support this podcast.

这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If you're not already following Huberman Lab on Instagram and Twitter, please do so.

如果您还没有在 Instagram 和 Twitter 上关注 Huberman Lab，请立即关注。

There, I cover science and science-based tools that sometimes overlaps with the content of this podcast, but sometimes is distinct from the content of this podcast.

在那里，我介绍了科学和基于科学的工具，这些工具有时与该播客的内容重叠，但有时与该播客的内容不同。

We also have a Neural Network Newsletter.

我们还有神经网络通讯。

The Neural Network Newsletter comes out once a month.

神经网络通讯每月出版一次。

It is zero cost.

这是零成本。

You sign up for it by providing your email.

您可以通过提供您的电子邮件进行注册。

We do not share your email with anybody.

我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。

The privacy policy is made very clear, and you can sign up for the Neural Network Newsletter by going to hubermanlab.com.

隐私政策非常明确，您可以访问 hubermanlab.com 订阅神经网络新闻通讯。

Just go into the menu, scroll down to Neural Network, and you can sign up.

只需进入菜单，向下滚动到“神经网络”，您就可以注册。

And even without signing up, you can access some of the previous newsletters if you'd like to see what they are like.

即使没有注册，如果您想了解一些以前的时事通讯，也可以访问它们。

We include short summaries from podcasts, some key takeaways, and some resources and tools that you won't find anywhere else.

我们提供了播客的简短摘要、一些关键要点以及一些您在其他地方找不到的资源和工具。

Thank you once again for joining me today to discuss the neuroscience and the physiology around salt and its many incredible influences on our brain and body.

再次感谢您今天与我一起讨论盐的神经科学和生理学及其对我们的大脑和身体的许多令人难以置信的影响。

And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.

最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。

PART 3 OF 3 ENDS

第 3 部分（共 3 部分）结束