Tony Hawk: Harnessing Passion, Drive & Persistence for Lifelong Success

Andrew Huberman: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

Andrew Huberman：欢迎来到 Huberman 实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。

I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

Today, my guest is Tony Hawk.

今天，我的嘉宾是托尼·霍克。

Tony Hawk is one of the most celebrated and accomplished professional skateboarders of all time.

托尼·霍克 (Tony Hawk) 是有史以来最著名、最有成就的职业滑板手之一。

For more than 40 years, he has been at the forefront of the sport and I don't mean just doing a sport for more than 40 years, I truly mean he has been at the forefront of skateboarding, developing new maneuvers, aka tricks that include incredible feats like the 900, a 900-degree spin in the air, as well as numerous other maneuvers that have really pushed the entire sport forward.

40 多年来，他一直处于这项运动的最前沿，我并不是说 40 多年来只是从事一项运动，我真正的意思是他一直处于滑板运动的最前沿，开发新的动作，也就是技巧，包括 900、空中 900 度旋转等令人难以置信的壮举，以及许多其他真正推动整个运动向前发展的动作。

He has also completely popularized the sport through his video game and through his ambassadorship for skateboarding.

他还通过他的电子游戏和滑板大使的身份彻底普及了这项运动。

In fact, few, if any, names are as synonymous with skateboarding in the general public as Tony Hawk.

事实上，很少有人能像托尼·霍克那样成为大众滑板运动的代名词。

And he is oh so deserved of that title, because for more than 40 years, he has shown up as the consummate professional.

他当之无愧地获得这个称号，因为 40 多年来，他一直表现得堪称完美的专业人士。

He is kind, he is respectful, and he is completely committed to his craft, and that shows up in every aspect of his life.

他很友善，他很尊重人，并且完全致力于他的手艺，这体现在他生活的各个方面。

He still, to this day, skateboards daily.

直到今天，他仍然每天玩滑板。

And as you'll soon learn, he recently suffered a major injury, a complete break of his femur, that is the bone in his upper leg.

您很快就会了解到，他最近受了重伤，股骨（即大腿上的骨头）完全骨折。

And this is what many people would consider a career-ending injury.

这就是很多人认为终结职业生涯的伤病。

Not only did Tony come back from that injury, but he went back to the very trick on which he broke his femur and recently completed that trick.

托尼不仅从伤病中恢复过来，而且他又回到了他股骨骨折的那个动作，并且最近完成了那个动作。

That is a 540, or so-called McTwist.

那是 540，或所谓的 McTwist。

I mention this because at every level of his life, Tony has demonstrated himself to be somebody with incredible drive, incredible vision and incredible persistence.

我提到这一点是因为托尼在他人生的各个阶段都证明了自己是一个具有令人难以置信的动力、令人难以置信的远见和令人难以置信的毅力的人。

And today we talk about that drive, vision and persistence, and we talk about what it takes to set a goal and to continually evolve one's goal and to continually progress as a basically young preteen, as a teenager, as a young adult, as an adult, and, well, let's face it, as a 55-year-old man, he is now heading a little bit past middle-aged, although we do hope that he lives forever.

今天我们谈论这种动力、愿景和毅力，我们谈论如何设定一个目标，不断发展自己的目标，并不断进步，作为一个基本上年轻的青春期前，作为一个青少年，作为一个年轻人，作为一个成年人，好吧，让我们面对现实吧，作为一个55岁的男人，他现在已经过了中年了，尽管我们确实希望他永远活着。

Tony Hawk, aka the Birdman, really does seem to be superhuman.

托尼·霍克，又名“鸟人”，看起来确实是超人。

But as you'll learn today, he is oh so human in the way that he shares his own experience and shares with you the ways in which we can each and all look at what we do and think about what we want to achieve and put our minds and our bodies to those goals and achieve them.

但正如您今天将了解到的那样，他是如此人性化，因为他分享了自己的经验，并与您分享了我们每个人如何看待我们所做的事情，思考我们想要实现的目标，并将我们的思想和身体投入到这些目标并实现它们。

I confess that today's discussion with Tony Hawk was a particularly thrilling one for me to have.

我承认今天与托尼·霍克的讨论对我来说特别激动人心。

I grew up in the sport of skateboarding, so I had met Tony previously.

我是在滑板运动中长大的，所以我以前见过托尼。

Although he doesn't remember it, that was many years ago.

虽然他不记得了，但那是很多年前的事了。

In fact, I met his parents.

事实上，我见过他的父母。

You'll learn more about that story during today's episode, but I was aware, of course, of Tony's accomplishments.

在今天的节目中，您将了解更多关于这个故事的信息，但我当然知道托尼的成就。

I was also aware of his philanthropy, so he has a skatepark foundation.

我也知道他的慈善事业，所以他有一个滑板公园基金会。

I also listened to his podcast with another professional skateboarder, Jason Ellis, called Hawk vs Wolf.

我还听了他和另一位职业滑板手 Jason Ellis 的播客，名为 Hawk vs Wolf。

We provided a link to that podcast in the show note captions as well.

我们还在节目注释标题中提供了该播客的链接。

But never before have I had the opportunity to sit down and talk to the Tony Hawk and learn from him.

但我以前从未有机会坐下来与托尼·霍克交谈并向他学习。

So I was absolutely delighted to have this conversation, and it far exceeded my already lofty expectations.

所以我非常高兴能进行这次谈话，它远远超出了我本来就很高的期望。

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。

In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。

Our first sponsor is LMNT.

我们的第一个赞助商是LMNT。

LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.

LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。

That means plenty of electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, but no sugar.

这意味着需要大量的电解质、钠、镁和钾，但不含糖。

The electrolytes and hydration are absolutely key for mental health, physical health, and performance.

电解质和水合作用对于心理健康、身体健康和表现绝对关键。

Even a slight degree of dehydration can impair our ability to think, our energy levels and our physical performance.

即使是轻微程度的脱水也会损害我们的思考能力、能量水平和身体表现。

LMNT makes it very easy to achieve proper hydration, and it does so by including the three electrolytes in the exact ratios they need to be present.

LMNT 可以非常容易地实现适当的水合，并且它通过以所需存在的精确比例包含三种电解质来实现这一点。

I drink LMNT first thing in the morning when I wake up.

我早上起床后第一件事就是喝 LMNT。

I usually mix it with about 16 to 32oz of water.

我通常将其与大约 16 至 32 盎司的水混合。

If I'm exercising, I'll drink one while I'm exercising, and I tend to drink one after exercising as well.

如果我在运动，我会在运动时喝一瓶，而且我也倾向于在运动后喝一瓶。

Now, many people are scared off by the idea of ingesting sodium because obviously we don't want to consume sodium in excess.

现在，许多人对摄入钠的想法感到害怕，因为显然我们不想摄入过量的钠。

However, for people that have normal blood pressure, and especially for people that are consuming very clean diets, that is consuming not so many processed foods or highly processed foods, oftentimes we are not getting enough sodium, magnesium, and potassium, and we can suffer as a consequence.

然而，对于血压正常的人来说，尤其是那些饮食非常干净的人，即没有食用太多加工食品或高度加工食品的人，我们通常无法摄入足够的钠、镁和钾，因此我们可能会遭受痛苦。

And with LMNT simply by mixing in water, it tastes delicious.

LMNT只需与水混合，味道鲜美。

It's very easy to get that proper hydration.

获得适当的水分非常容易。

If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt, that's LMNT.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with your purchase.

如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt（即 LMNT.com/huberman），在购买时领取免费的 LMNT 样品包。

Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman

再说一遍，这是 Drinklmnt.com/huberman

Today's episode is also brought to us by ROKA.

今天的节目也是ROKA给我们带来的。

ROKA makes eyeglasses and sunglasses that are of the absolute highest quality.

ROKA 生产绝对最高品质的眼镜和太阳镜。

I've spent a lifetime working on the biology of the visual system, and I can tell you that your visual system has to contend with an enormous number of challenges in order for you to be able to see clearly.

我一生都在研究视觉系统的生物学，我可以告诉你，你的视觉系统必须应对大量的挑战，才能让你看得清楚。

ROKA understands this and has developed their eyeglasses and sunglasses so that you always see with perfect clarity.

ROKA 深知这一点，并开发了眼镜和太阳镜，让您始终拥有完美的清晰度。

In addition, they are extremely lightweight, and they won't slip off your face if you get sweaty.

此外，它们非常轻巧，即使出汗也不会从脸上滑落。

Indeed, ROKA eyeglasses and sunglasses were initially designed for performance in sports, but now they include aesthetics and styles that are really designed to be worn anytime.

事实上，ROKA 眼镜和太阳镜最初是为运动表现而设计的，但现在它们包含了真正适合随时佩戴的美学和款式。

I, for instance, wear readers at night.

例如，我晚上会戴阅读器。

I'll sometimes wear sunglasses during the day when I drive.

白天开车时我有时会戴太阳镜。

And of course, I do not wear sunglasses when I do my morning sunlight viewing, which I highly recommend everyone do their morning sunlight viewing.

当然，我在早晨观看阳光时不会戴墨镜，我强烈建议每个人都进行早晨阳光观看。

If you'd like to try ROKA eyeglasses or sunglasses, you can go to ROKA, that's roka.com, and enter the code HUBERMAN to save 20% off your first order.

如果您想尝试 ROKA 眼镜或太阳镜，可以访问 ROKA（即 roka.com），然后输入代码 HUBERMAN，即可在首次订单时享受 20% 的折扣。

Again, that's roka.com.

再说一遍，那就是 roka.com。

Enter the code HUBERMAN at checkout.

结帐时输入代码 HUBERMAN。

And now for my discussion with Tony Hawk.

现在我与托尼·霍克进行讨论。

Tony Hawk, welcome.

托尼霍克，欢迎。

Tony Hawk: Thanks.

托尼·霍克：谢谢。

Andrew Huberman: I'm particularly thrilled to have this conversation because I've tracked your career for a very long time.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：我对这次谈话感到特别兴奋，因为我很长时间以来一直在关注你的职业生涯。

Grew up in the skateboard thing.

从小就喜欢滑板。

Tony Hawk: I know.

托尼·霍克：我知道。

Andrew Huberman: Had your poster on my wall.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我的墙上贴着你的海报。

Tony Hawk: Oh, thank you.

托尼·霍克：哦，谢谢。

Andrew Huberman: Your name is synonymous with skateboarding, as you know.

Andrew Huberman：如你所知，你的名字是滑板运动的代名词。

I think a question that probably get asked from time to time, but let's just clarify the data from the outset.

我认为这个问题可能会不时被问到，但让我们从一开始就澄清一下数据。

Tony Hawk is your real name, right?

托尼·霍克是你的真名，对吧？

Tony Hawk: Yes.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Anthony Frank Hawk.

安东尼·弗兰克·霍克。

But I never went by Anthony.

但我从来没有去过安东尼。

I mean, my parents call me Tony since I could remember.

我的意思是，从我记事起，我的父母就叫我托尼。

Andrew Huberman: It's a fitting name, given the sport and what you do.

Andrew Huberman：考虑到这项运动和你所做的事情，这是一个合适的名字。

And we will get into this a little bit later when we talk about family and parenting and parents.

稍后当我们谈论家庭、养育子女和父母时，我们将讨论这一点。

But I'll allude to the story now that when I was 14 years old that your parents took me in.

但现在我要提一下我14岁时你父母收留我的故事。

I slept in your bed, in your home.

我睡在你的床上，睡在你的家里。

Tony Hawk: Wild.

托尼·霍克：狂野。

Andrew Huberman: Not with you in it, but surrounded by a near infinite number of trophies.

Andrew Huberman：不是你在里面，而是被几乎无限数量的奖杯包围着。

Tony Hawk: It must have been right after I moved out.

托尼·霍克：肯定是在我搬出去之后。

Andrew Huberman: This would be, I was 14 years old.

Andrew Huberman：当时我 14 岁。

Maybe I'll just tell the story now very briefly.

也许我现在就简单地讲一下这个故事。

I was 14 years old.

那年我14岁。

I was at a contest at Linda Vista Boys Club.

我参加了琳达维斯塔男孩俱乐部的一场比赛。

Everyone left.

所有人都离开了。

Me and another kid named Billy Waldman were still there.

我和另一个名叫比利·沃尔德曼的孩子还在那里。

Your dad said, where are you going?

你爸爸说，你去哪儿？

It was clear that I didn't know where I was going.

很明显，我不知道自己要去哪里。

My life was ...

我的生活是...

I was a wayward youth at that time, and so they took me in for a night, maybe even two nights.

那时我是个任性的年轻人，他们就收留我一晚，甚至两晚。

Your mom, Nancy, and your dad, Frank, were so gracious, brought me into your home, took me to dinner.

你的妈妈南希和你的爸爸弗兰克非常亲切，带我到你家，带我去吃晚饭。

I don't recall.

我不记得了。

Tony Hawk: I mean, that tracks, that would definitely.

托尼·霍克：我的意思是，那肯定是的。

My dad and my mom together would be doing that.

我爸爸和我妈妈会一起做那件事。

Yes.

是的。

Andrew Huberman: Incredible people.

安德鲁·休伯曼：不可思议的人。

And we'll get back to that story later because you and I actually met the next day in Fallbrook at your ramp.

我们稍后会再回到这个故事，因为你和我实际上是第二天在福尔布鲁克在你的坡道上见面的。

Tony Hawk: So it had to been '88, '89.

托尼·霍克：所以那一定是 88 年、89 年。

Andrew Huberman: I'm going to say '89.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我会说“89”。

Tony Hawk: Okay.

托尼·霍克：好的。

Andrew Huberman: And it must have been one of the either NSA or Castle contests that your dad was very active in.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这一定是你父亲非常活跃的 NSA 或 Castle 竞赛之一。

Well, we'll get back to that, but I have so many questions that relate to skateboarding, to you, and really, as a neuroscientist, to the whole concept of a life of continual progression, because whether or not people listening to this and watching this are skateboarders or not, and I imagine that most of them are not, it's absolutely clear that you've been in this game a very long time and that you've somehow managed to continue to progress over and over to come back from very severe injuries and somehow keep getting better and better.

好吧，我们会回过头来，但我有很多与滑板相关的问题，对你来说，实际上，作为一名神经科学家，对不断进步的生活的整个概念有很多疑问，因为无论听这个和观看这个的人是否是滑板手，我想他们中的大多数人都不是，很明显，你已经参加这个游戏很长时间了，而且你已经以某种方式设法不断地不断进步，从非常严重的伤病中恢复过来，不知何故不断变得越来越好。

So the first question I have is about the younger version of you.

所以我的第一个问题是关于年轻版的你。

Did you have any sort of self-concept, like, I want to be a pro athlete, or I want to be a skateboarder, or I want to have a video game named after me.

你有没有任何自我概念，比如，我想成为一名职业运动员，或者我想成为一名滑板运动员，或者我想要一款以我的名字命名的视频游戏。

Tony Hawk: Tony Hawk : Andrew Huberman: Right, exactly.

托尼·霍克： 托尼·霍克： 安德鲁·休伯曼： 是的，完全正确。

But if you can think back to maybe even pre skateboarding, do you remember what your self-concept was?

但如果你回想一下滑板之前的情况，你还记得你的自我概念是什么吗？

This notion of, like, I have a self, and I'm either similar or different to other kids in some way.

这种观念，比如，我有一个自我，我在某些方面与其他孩子相似或不同。

Tony Hawk: When I was young, I was put in a lot of advanced classes, and not that that felt like a badge of honor.

托尼·霍克：当我年轻的时候，我被安排参加了很多高级课程，但这并不是一种荣誉徽章。

It felt more like I was just classified as a nerd.

感觉更像是我被归类为书呆子。

But then I thought, okay, well, that's my strength, so I'll lean into that.

但后来我想，好吧，这就是我的强项，所以我会依靠它。

And I thought that maybe I would be a teacher because I thought, well, I get all these concepts, and I think I could relate them to kids or to my peers because I helped a lot of my classmates through some classes.

我想也许我会成为一名老师，因为我想，好吧，我得到了所有这些概念，我想我可以将它们与孩子或我的同龄人联系起来，因为我通过一些课程帮助了很多同学。

So that's all I really had.

这就是我真正拥有的一切。

I didn't know.

我不知道。

And then when I would play sports, I would be okay.

然后当我参加体育运动时，我就没事了。

I wasn't terrible, but I wasn't the VIP or the MVP.

我并不糟糕，但我不是 VIP 或 MVP。

And so I was just kind of playing basketball, playing baseball.

所以我只是打篮球、打棒球。

And then when I found skateboard, it was pretty obvious that that was what I wanted to do once I got on a skateboard and realized that I could maneuver it and do things that were unique.

然后当我发现滑板时，很明显，一旦我登上滑板并意识到我可以操纵它并做一些独特的事情，这就是我想做的事情。

Not that they were moving the needle or anyone cared, but they were unique in the sense of, like, I've never seen one do this, and this feels awesome.

并不是说他们正在改变方向或有人关心，但他们是独一无二的，就像，我从未见过有人这样做，这感觉棒极了。

And so I just want to do this.

所以我只想这样做。

And so I didn't think that this is my career.

所以我不认为这是我的职业。

I was ten, so I just thought, this is my hobby, this is my thing, and I don't want to play these other sports anymore.

我当时十岁，所以我想，这是我的爱好，这是我的事，我不想再参加其他运动了。

Andrew Huberman: Did you stop playing all the other sports?

安德鲁·休伯曼：你停止参加所有其他运动了吗？

Tony Hawk: Yes.

托尼·霍克：是的。

I quit Little League in the middle of the season when my dad had been appointed president of that chapter of Little League.

当我父亲被任命为少年棒球联盟分会主席时，我在赛季中期退出了少年棒球联盟。

Because he was the coach, he was always very involved in all of his kids.

因为他是教练，所以他总是非常关心他所有的孩子。

I have three siblings, so he was always very supportive, whatever they were doing.

我有三个兄弟姐妹，所以无论他们做什么，他总是非常支持。

And then when I was playing baseball, he became the coach because he had time, and he was doing that.

然后当我打棒球时，他成为了教练，因为他有时间，而且他正在这样做。

He was almost retired, and then he was such a prominent figure in the Little League.

他快要退役了，然后他在少年棒球联盟中成了如此显赫的人物。

They said, oh, you're president now?

他们说，哦，你现在是总统了？

And so then someone else was coach, and then I was skating, and I was over it.

然后其他人担任教练，然后我开始滑冰，然后我就结束了。

Andrew Huberman: Did you immediately start skateboarding in the parks on transition, as we say, or were you pushing around in the driveway like most kids?

Andrew Huberman：正如我们所说，你是在过渡时立即开始在公园里玩滑板，还是像大多数孩子一样在车道上推来推去？

Tony Hawk: I was transportation, and skating was kind of a fad.

托尼·霍克：我从事交通工具，滑冰是一种时尚。

So I started in '78, roughly, maybe '77 even.

所以我从 78 年开始，大概是 77 年。

And it was kind of a fad.

这是一种时尚。

So kids just had skateboards, and they would all cruise around.

所以孩子们只要有滑板，他们就会四处游荡。

It was the '70s, so everyone had a bike, right?

那是 70 年代，所以每个人都有一辆自行车，对吗？

And you knew where all the kids were because the bikes were in the front lawn.

你知道所有孩子在哪里，因为自行车就在前面的草坪上。

And then at some point, that kind of turned into skating.

然后在某个时候，这变成了滑冰。

So everyone had a skateboard.

于是每个人都有了一块滑板。

They were all like, shitty JCPenney or big box store skateboards.

它们就像是劣质的 JCPenney 或大卖场的滑板。

No one had a really good one, not in my area.

没有人拥有真正好的，不是在我的地区。

But then at some point, we were just looking at these magazines of people skating, and everyone's skating in pools, because that was the Dogtown and Z-Boys era, and it was like, these guys are like, where do we do that?

但后来在某个时候，我们只是看这些人们滑冰的杂志，每个人都在泳池里滑冰，因为那是 Dogtown 和 Z-Boys 时代，就像，这些家伙就像，我们在哪里做呢？

And then the skate park opened up in San Diego.

然后滑板公园在圣地亚哥开业。

Andrew Huberman: That was Del Mar Skatepark.

Andrew Huberman：那是德尔马滑板公园。

Tony Hawk: Oasis.

托尼·霍克：绿洲。

Andrew Huberman: Skate Ranch.

安德鲁·休伯曼：滑板牧场。

Tony Hawk: Oasis Skatepark was the first one in our area, actually, I take that back.

托尼·霍克：绿洲滑板公园是我们地区的第一个滑板公园，实际上，我收回这句话。

Spring Valley was the first skatepark.

Spring Valley 是第一个滑板公园。

I tried to go there, and I was nine, and you had to be 10.

我试着去那里，当时我九岁，而你必须十岁。

And I remember sitting in the parking lot looking over the fence, and my dad didn't realize what the age, because my dad would have easily lied for me, but he didn't realize there was an age limit, and he said, how old is he?

我记得坐在停车场越过栅栏看，我爸爸没有意识到我的年龄，因为我爸爸很容易对我撒谎，但他没有意识到有年龄限制，他说，他多大了？

Nine.

九。

Oh, sorry, he can't come.

哦，抱歉，他不能来。

And then they closed not long after.

然后不久之后他们就关门了。

So wham.

所以砰。

I never got to skate Spring Valley.

我从来没有去过春谷滑冰。

Andrew Huberman: Because I think of you as synonymous with Del Mar Skate Ranch.

Andrew Huberman：因为我认为您是 Del Mar Skate Ranch 的代名词。

Tony Hawk: Sure.

托尼·霍克：当然。

Well, that came later because Oasis Skatepark was open.

嗯，那是后来的事，因为绿洲滑板公园开放了。

So this is when I first went, was like '78.

这是我第一次去的时候，就像 78 年一样。

A friend of mine was going, and he said, I'm going to go to the skatepark.

我的一个朋友要去，他说，我要去滑板公园。

So I had to go get ...

所以我必须去取...

such a hassle.

这么麻烦。

Like, I had to go get the authorization form.

就像，我必须去获取授权表。

I had to get it notarized by the bank, by my parents to go there.

我必须经过银行和我父母的公证才能去那里。

And then I went.

然后我就去了。

And that was my epiphany.

这就是我的顿悟。

When I first saw people flying around in person, I was like, this is what I'm doing for as long as I could possibly do it, because it looked like magic.

当我第一次看到人们亲自飞来飞去时，我想，这就是我尽可能长时间做的事情，因为它看起来像魔法。

It really did.

确实如此。

It looked like they were flying on magic carpets.

看起来他们就像是在魔毯上飞翔。

And it spoke to me in the sense of being a daredevil, but also doing it individually, not relying on my team, not getting hassled by a coach.

这对我来说是一个勇敢的人，但也是单独做的，不依赖我的团队，不被教练打扰。

It was just like, oh, I can be part of the scene, but do it my own way.

就像，哦，我可以成为场景的一部分，但以我自己的方式去做。

And then I skated Oasis as much as I could whenever I could.

然后我尽可能多地在 Oasis 上滑冰。

Get your rides there.

在那里乘车。

And then my parents moved to North County, San Diego, when I was in high school, mostly because they were just chasing kind of real estate deals.

然后，当我上高中时，我的父母搬到了圣地亚哥北县，主要是因为他们只是在追逐某种房地产交易。

And so I got lucky that Del Mar Skate Ranch was right there.

所以我很幸运，德尔马滑板牧场就在那里。

Every other park closed, but Del Mar Skate Ranch remained open.

其他所有公园都关闭了，但德尔马滑板牧场仍然开放。

So, I mean, there was a bit of luck to all that.

所以，我的意思是，这一切都有一点运气。

And it was based on geography.

它是基于地理的。

Andrew Huberman: Your dad's involvement is interesting because I got into skateboarding.

Andrew Huberman：你父亲的参与很有趣，因为我开始玩滑板。

Know, my dad wasn't around that much at that time.

要知道，当时我爸爸并不在身边。

A lot of kids get into skateboarding because it doesn't require parent involvement.

许多孩子开始玩滑板是因为它不需要父母的参与。

Was it unusual to have parental involvement at that stage?

在那个阶段有父母参与是不寻常的吗？

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Andrew Huberman: I mean, I remember Frank.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我是说，我记得弗兰克。

And by the way, I remember Frank and Nancy, your parents, with such fondness, not just because they took me in, but I remember thinking, like, they were at times the only point of stability in a landscape of, like, 200 people where, as you know, there could be potential chaos of any kind.

顺便说一句，我记得弗兰克和南希，你的父母，他们如此喜爱，不仅仅是因为他们收留了我，而且我记得我当时想，他们有时是在大约 200 人的环境中唯一的稳定点，正如你所知，那里可能存在任何潜在的混乱。

Tony Hawk: Always.

托尼·霍克：总是。

Andrew Huberman: And your dad had this way of moving about.

安德鲁·休伯曼：你父亲就有这种移动方式。

I recall that he wasn't afraid to say what he thought.

我记得他并不害怕说出自己的想法。

Like, hey, don't do that.

就像，嘿，别这样做。

Like, impose some regulation at these contests.

比如，对这些比赛施加一些监管。

And at the same time, it seemed he also understood that this was a sport unlike other sports.

同时，他似乎也明白，这是一项不同于其他运动的运动。

Like, you're not going to regulate kids like me at the time or you're not going to try and control people.

就像，你当时不会去监管像我这样的孩子，或者你不会试图控制人们。

So what was it like to have your dad involved?

那么让你父亲参与进来感觉如何？

And the reason I ask is that you're a parent.

我问的原因是你是父母。

We'll talk more about parenting.

我们将更多地谈论育儿问题。

But also, it seems that he went from saying, okay, Little League, other sports, which is more typical, to okay, this kind of unusual sport, skateboarding.

而且，他似乎从说“好吧，少年棒球联盟，其他更典型的运动”，变成了“好吧，滑板这种不寻常的运动”。

But your mere interest in it was enough to get him excited or motivated enough to take you around to these places.

但仅仅你对此感兴趣就足以让他兴奋或有动力带你去这些地方。

That's pretty special.

这很特别。

Tony Hawk: It was, and in that respect, it was great to have his support and to rely on him for that.

托尼·霍克：是的，从这方面来说，得到他的支持并依靠他真是太好了。

The fact that he was always around and that he was in charge of a lot of the events, that sucked because it just marked me as one being favorited and spoiled.

事实上，他总是在身边，而且他负责很多事情，这很糟糕，因为这只是标志着我是一个被宠爱和被宠坏的人。

And most of my friends, their parents didn't want them skating.

我的大多数朋友，他们的父母都不希望他们滑冰。

So even though they were stoked that my dad was doing this kind of thing and giving that kind of support, they still were like, your dad's here.

因此，尽管他们对我父亲做这种事情并提供这种支持感到兴奋，但他们仍然会说，你父亲在这里。

This is our thing.

这是我们的事。

This is our scene.

这就是我们的场景。

This is our getaway from our parents.

这是我们远离父母的地方。

I didn't really have a choice in the matter.

在这件事上我真的没有选择。

I did at some point tell him my concerns and my frustrations with it, but he didn't really want to hear it.

我确实在某个时候告诉过他我的担忧和沮丧，但他并不是真的想听。

He was very much steadfast, like, well, I've been coming this far.

他非常坚定，就像，好吧，我已经走了这么远了。

We can keep our distance at these events, but people are relying on me to organize them, and so I just had to suck it up for a while.

我们可以在这些活动中保持距离，但人们依靠我来组织这些活动，所以我只能忍耐一段时间。

Andrew Huberman: Did it push you harder?

Andrew Huberman：这让你更加努力了吗？

If you could prove yourself with the skateboarding, then you didn't have to worry about any claims of favoritism, because ultimately, you can't fake skateboarding, right?

如果你能用滑板来证明自己，那么你就不用担心任何偏袒的说法，因为最终你不能假滑板，对吧？

I mean, there's no deep fake version of skateboarding.

我的意思是，滑板运动不存在深假版本。

You either can do it or you can't do it, and it's shown in real time.

您要么可以做，要么不能做，并且会实时显示。

And I suppose back then, I recall you were quite a bit skinny or skinnier.

我想那时候，我记得你有点瘦或者更瘦。

Tony Hawk: Oh, yeah.

托尼·霍克：哦，是的。

I had all kinds of things going against me at the time.

当时我遇到了各种各样的事情。

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman: I mean, I don't think people will realize this unless they've met you in person, but nowadays, there are a few taller skateboarders out there because the sport's grown so much.

Andrew Huberman：我的意思是，我认为人们不会意识到这一点，除非他们亲自见过你，但现在，有一些更高的滑板运动员，因为这项运动发展得如此之快。

But you're pretty tall.

但你长得相当高。

You're like six three.

你就像六三。

Tony Hawk: But I was not.

托尼·霍克：但我不是。

When I was growing, when I was that age, I was very small and kind of concerningly small, because by the time I got to be 16, I looked like I was 13.

当我成长的时候，当我那个年纪的时候，我非常小，而且小得令人担忧，因为当我16岁的时候，我看起来就像13岁一样。

I used to get pulled over, literally, like, I had a car that I bought with my earnings.

我曾经被拦下来，从字面上看，就像我用我的收入买了一辆车。

I had a Honda Civic 1977 CVCC.

我有一辆本田思域 1977 CVCC。

And I would get pulled over, and then the cops would be like, how old are you?

我会被拦下来，然后警察会问，你多大了？

Sixteen.

十六。

Well, you looked like you were 13 back there.

嗯，那时候你看起来就像 13 岁一样。

And then I shot up around age 17.

然后我在 17 岁左右开始猛增。

Andrew Huberman: Okay, so that's interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的，这很有趣。

And we can get back to this when we talk about your almost remarkable levels of ability to recover from physical injuries, because, well, I'll just share a little bit of biological theory here, which is that there are a lot of people that study longevity, and perhaps the fastest rate of aging that we ever undergo is puberty.

当我们谈论你从身体伤害中恢复的几乎惊人的能力时，我们可以回到这个话题，因为，好吧，我在这里只分享一点生物学理论，那就是有很多人研究长寿，也许我们经历过的最快衰老速度是青春期。

Right.

正确的。

If you think about a kid before puberty, kid after puberty, it's like different human being, psychologically, often physically as well.

如果你想想青春期前的孩子和青春期后的孩子，他们就像不同的人，在心理上，通常在身体上也是如此。

Some people have a longer arc of puberty than others, and that does seem to correlate with a longer life.

有些人的青春期弧度比其他人更长，这似乎确实与更长的寿命相关。

And so it's kind of interesting.

这很有趣。

Some kids hit puberty and they go through all the markers of puberty in, like, one summer.

有些孩子进入青春期，他们在一个夏天就经历了青春期的所有标志。

Other kids, it's very, very long.

其他孩子，它非常非常长。

And it sounds like we don't have to talk about when you hit puberty and the other markers, but it sounds like your growth spurt occurred late.

听起来我们不必谈论你何时进入青春期和其他标志，但听起来你的生长突增发生得很晚。

That's a terrific marker of a long life, by the way, because what it reflects is the onset of a big burst of growth hormone out of the pituitary and the brain.

顺便说一句，这是长寿的一个极好的标志，因为它反映的是垂体和大脑中生长激素的大量爆发。

And if you continue to grow for a long period of time, that indicates it gives you a little bit of the slope of the line.

如果你继续增长很长一段时间，那就表明它给了你一点线的斜率。

Does that make sense?

这有道理吗？

Tony Hawk: Oh, yeah.

托尼·霍克：哦，是的。

Andrew Huberman: So this may have important and fortunate consequences.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以这可能会产生重要而幸运的后果。

So at 17, you shot up.

所以17岁时，你突然崛起。

Am I correct in remembering?

我记得正确吗？

Maybe you said it, maybe somebody else did, that you were, forgive me, but so skinny when you were a kid, that you actually wore elbow pads as knee pads.

也许你这么说，也许别人这么说，你是，原谅我，但你小时候太瘦了，以至于你实际上把护肘当作护膝。

Tony Hawk: Yeah, that's a true story for sure.

托尼·霍克：是的，这确实是一个真实的故事。

And I took inspiration from others that I identified with, namely Steve Caballero, because he was already an established pro when I started to come up in the ranks or even get noticed at all.

我从我认同的其他人那里获得了灵感，即史蒂夫·卡瓦列罗（Steve Caballero），因为当我开始在行列中崭露头角甚至受到关注时，他已经是一名成熟的职业选手了。

And he was wearing elbow pads on his knees in this full-page picture of him in Winchester doing a backseat air.

在这张他在温彻斯特后座上表演的整版照片中，他的膝盖上戴着护肘。

And I was like, that, I want to do that.

我当时想，我想这么做。

And he's small, and I feel like that's my goal.

而且他还小，我觉得这就是我的目标。

I didn't say, like, if he can do that, I can do it.

我并没有说，如果他能做到，我也能做到。

It was just more like, oh, I identify with that, and that gives me hope.

这更像是，哦，我认同这一点，这给了我希望。

Andrew Huberman: And as I recall, Stevie also has a pretty severe scoliosis, right?

安德鲁·胡伯曼：我记得，史蒂夫也有相当严重的脊柱侧弯，对吧？

At one point, he was turned pretty tight to the right or left, I don't recall which.

有一次，他的身体向左或向右转得很紧，我不记得是哪一个了。

I mean, still, incredible skateboarder.

我的意思是，仍然是令人难以置信的滑板手。

Love Stevie.

爱史蒂夫。

He's a Nor Cal guy.

他是北加州人。

So I grew up in Nor Cal.

所以我在北加州长大。

Tony Hawk: I know whatever he had is from birth, but it was more that his size, and I didn't even know he was not many, but he's, like, four years older than me, so I just was like, oh, there's small guys doing that.

托尼·霍克：我知道他从出生起就有什么，但更重要的是他的身材，我什至不知道他并不多，但他比我大四岁，所以我只是想，哦，有小家伙在这样做。

I can do it.

我能做到。

Maybe.

或许。

But when I got tall, when I went through puberty, suddenly I had all these tricks, and then suddenly I had the strength and the height that gave me confidence.

但当我长高时，当我经历青春期时，突然我有了所有这些技巧，然后突然我有了给我信心的力量和身高。

And so all of a sudden it was like, oh, I can go way higher now.

突然之间，我就觉得，哦，我现在可以走得更高了。

And I'm comfortable with these tricks, these intricate board maneuvers and stuff.

我对这些技巧、这些复杂的棋盘动作和东西很满意。

So that was a huge advantage to me.

所以这对我来说是一个巨大的优势。

The smaller stuff felt different after that, which was harder.

之后较小的东西感觉不同，这更难。

But being able to blast eight feet in the air as opposed to four feet in the air was a huge advantage.

但能够在空中爆炸八英尺而不是在空中爆炸四英尺是一个巨大的优势。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

Isn't that wild when the nervous system knows how to do something and then your body changes and you can do the same thing, but with so much more force?

当神经系统知道如何做某事，然后你的身体发生变化，你可以做同样的事情，但用更大的力量时，这不是很疯狂吗？

Tony Hawk: Even the bowls look smaller.

托尼·霍克：连碗都看起来更小了。

When I would stand on top of them, I was like, wait, this isn't that big.

当我站在它们上面时，我想，等等，这并没有那么大。

Andrew Huberman: It's wild.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这很疯狂。

Well, the reason I ask about this, I think people listening generally seem to assume that if you become a Stanford professor, you become a professional skateboarder or you professional soccer player, that you were just fated to become that..

好吧，我问这个问题的原因是，我认为人们普遍认为，如果你成为斯坦福大学教授，你会成为一名职业滑板运动员或职业足球运动员，你注定会成为那样的人。

And it's clear that it's the confluence of so many different factors.

很明显，这是许多不同因素共同作用的结果。

But one of the consistent factors, for sure, is a sense that you just really love doing it.

但毫无疑问，一致的因素之一是你真的很喜欢这样做。

I mean, I can't imagine getting proficient or excellent at anything without loving doing it.

我的意思是，我无法想象如果不热爱某件事，就能精通或出色地完成某件事。

And so, still, at this time, when you were, let's say, 14,15, did you have any concept of a pro model?

那么，在这个时候，比如说，当你14,15岁的时候，你对职业模特有什么概念吗？

None of that.

都不是。

Tony Hawk: Well, there was none of that to be had.

托尼·霍克：好吧，这些都没有。

So we didn't have these great aspirations because no one had really done that before.

所以我们没有这些远大的抱负，因为以前没有人真正做到过这一点。

You could have some success.

你可能会取得一些成功。

Yes, you could have maybe a signature model, but even the top sales of skateboarding then wasn't a career.

是的，你也许可以拥有一个签名款，但即使当时滑板销量最高也不是一种职业。

The prize money was $150 for first place, 100 for second, 50 for third.

奖金为第一名150美元，第二名100美元，第三名50美元。

Andrew Huberman: A couple of tanks of gas, some food.

安德鲁·休伯曼：几箱汽油，一些食物。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

So let's put it this way.

那么让我们这样说吧。

I turned pro when I was 14.

我 14 岁时转为职业球员。

By the time I was 15 and a half, and I had a learner's permit and I could drive a scooter, I had $600 in my bank account, and I used that to buy a Honda Express moped.

当我 15 岁半时，我获得了学习许可证并且可以驾驶踏板车，我的银行帐户中有 600 美元，我用它购买了一辆 Honda Express 轻便摩托车。

For a year and a half, that was my earnings, was $600.

一年半的时间里，我的收入是 600 美元。

Andrew Huberman: So clearly money wasn't the dopamine hit, it was the actual skateboarding.

Andrew Huberman：很明显，金钱并不是多巴胺的刺激，而是真正的滑板运动。

Tony Hawk: Sure.

托尼·霍克：当然。

And that's what I mean, though, there was no goal of that because it just didn't exist.

这就是我的意思，不过，没有目标，因为它根本不存在。

So I didn't care.

所以我不在乎。

Are you kidding me?

你在开玩笑吧？

I have my own vehicle at age 15, like I was living large.

我 15 岁时就拥有了自己的车辆，就像我过着奢侈的生活一样。

I could get to the skate park on my own.

我可以自己去滑板公园。

That was amazing.

太棒了。

Andrew Huberman: To be 14 and be a professional at anything.

Andrew Huberman：14 岁时，成为任何事情的专业人士。

Must be a trip, so to speak.

可以这么说，一定是一次旅行。

But what I'm wondering about, because I came up when your early cohort with Powell Peralta.

但我想知道的是，因为我是在你们早期与鲍威尔·佩拉尔塔（Powell Peralta）同组时提出的。

So for those that don't know, so-called Bones Brigade, right.

所以对于那些不知道的人来说，所谓的骨头旅，对吧。

I guess it was a total, what, like six, seven guys?

我猜总共有六、七个人吧？

There were some that were a little more peripheral than others.

有些比其他的更外围。

There are about six, seven core guys in the various videos.

各种视频中大约有六、七个核心人物。

I mean, you guys were famous, right?

我是说，你们都很出名，对吧？

You had posters on kids' walls who skateboarded.

孩子们的墙上贴有滑板海报。

There was a second, or maybe it was a third surge of popularity in skateboarding because it would sort of surge in general popularity, then disappear and come back as it has over decades.

滑板运动出现了第二次，或者可能是第三次流行，因为它会在总体流行度上激增，然后消失并卷土重来，就像几十年来那样。

It keeps coming and going to some extent.

在某种程度上，它不断来来去去。

Did you have a conscious awareness of just how much attention was being placed on photos of you, videos of you?

您是否有意识地意识到您的照片、视频受到了多少关注？

And I'm just wondering about the younger version of you, whether or not you realize what was happening.

我只是想知道年轻时的你，是否意识到发生了什么。

And the reason I ask is because you've always seemed to me somebody who, through interviews, through videos, through our interactions, and for those who've known you much longer than I have, just very grounded, like, not caught up in it.

我之所以问这个问题，是因为在我看来，通过采访、通过视频、通过我们的互动，对于那些比我认识你更久的人来说，你一直是一个非常脚踏实地的人，不会陷入其中。

We've never seen headlines about you kind of just blowing all your money or wrecking cars and destroying your life.

我们从未见过关于你花光所有钱或毁坏汽车并毁掉你生活的头条新闻。

I mean, I'm sure you've made mistakes like any of us, but.

我的意思是，我确信你也像我们一样犯过错误，但是。

But you seem to have avoided a lot of the pitfalls of, quote, unquote, famous people and celebrities.

但你似乎已经避免了很多名人和名人的陷阱。

And yet you were a famous person from a very young age.

然而你从很小的时候起就是一个名人。

Tony Hawk: Yeah, well, I think it was ...

托尼·霍克：是的，嗯，我认为这是......

that was never a goal.

这从来就不是一个目标。

And then when I had a sense of it, I was very uncomfortable.

然后当我有这种感觉时，我感到非常不舒服。

I mean, I was happy.

我是说，我很高兴。

I was happy to be successful.

我很高兴能够成功。

I was happy that people recognized me.

我很高兴人们认出了我。

That was amazing.

太棒了。

Just because I was good at skateboarding, I never imagined something like that, but I was always very.

只是因为我擅长滑板，我从来没有想象过这样的事情，但我总是很擅长。

I mean, some people thought that I was sort of almost, like, pompous or arrogant because I wasn't interacting, because I was walled off.

我的意思是，有些人认为我有点自大或傲慢，因为我没有互动，因为我被隔离了。

I was like, I don't know what to do.

我当时想，我不知道该怎么办。

Andrew Huberman: Gosh, this is the last words I would ever use to describe you.

安德鲁·休伯曼：天哪，这是我用来形容你的最后一句话。

Tony Hawk: I think it was just more that people would see me.

托尼·霍克：我认为只是为了让人们更多地看到我。

Like, I'd go to a ramp.

就像，我会去坡道。

I didn't know anybody, and I would just start skating, and I'd do all my stuff.

我不认识任何人，我就开始滑冰，做我所有的事情。

And they were like, oh, he doesn't even talk to anyone.

他们就像，哦，他甚至不和任何人说话。

And I was like, I don't know what to do.

我当时想，我不知道该怎么办。

I don't know how to act.

我不知道该如何行动。

Andrew Huberman: Also, you're 14 years old, right?

Andrew Huberman：另外，你今年 14 岁了，对吧？

Tony Hawk: So Stacy broke me out of that, because I remember one time there was a kid that was just staring at me, like, hold my skateboard.

托尼·霍克：所以史黛西让我摆脱了这个困境，因为我记得有一次有一个孩子只是盯着我看，就像握住我的滑板一样。

He had my signature model, and he said, go say hi to that guy.

他有我的签名模型，他说，去跟那个家伙打个招呼吧。

Are you sure?

你确定吗？

He wants to interact with you.

他想和你互动。

Just go high-five him or anything.

跟他击掌或者其他什么的就行了。

And I learned to sort of break out of my comfort zone by doing that enough.

我学会了通过做得足够多来突破我的舒适区。

But my first go-around, I mean, that was sort of my first wave of fame.

但我的第一次复飞，我的意思是，那是我的第一波成名。

I'd say the Bones Brigade years.

我想说的是骨头旅时代。

And we were so young that we thought, this is forever.

我们还那么年轻，我们以为，这就是永远。

And so we were definitely careless with our money, with our actions.

所以我们对我们的钱和我们的行为肯定是粗心的。

And at some point, my dad saw that he didn't think it was going to be long term, because no one had a long-term career, right?

在某些时候，我父亲发现他认为这不会是长期的，因为没有人拥有长期的职业生涯，对吧？

So he encouraged me to invest, to get property, like, to buy a house.

所以他鼓励我投资，获得财产，比如买房子。

That was my saving grace, because I definitely was spending.

这是我的可取之处，因为我确实在花钱。

.

。

Andrew Huberman: On cars and things of that sort?

Andrew Huberman：关于汽车和类似的东西？

Tony Hawk: Yeah, a car.

托尼·霍克：是的，一辆车。

Like, kind of a little bit beyond my means.

就像，有点超出了我的能力范围。

I wasn't really, considering.

我真的没有考虑过。

All my money was 1099 income, so we weren't paying taxes on anything.

我所有的钱都是1099的收入，所以我们没有为任何东西缴税。

And at the end of the year, it would be like, oh, you owe this much.

到了年底，你就会觉得，哦，你欠了这么多。

Like, wait, what are you talking about?

就像，等等，你在说什么？

For instance, hey, do you want to go to Hawaii?

例如，嘿，你想去夏威夷吗？

Yeah.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Invite everyone.

邀请大家。

We're all going to Hawaii.

我们都要去夏威夷。

Let's rent a place.

我们租个地方吧。

You know, and it was on me because I had the means.

你知道，这是我的责任，因为我有办法。

Andrew Huberman: You mentioned Stacy.

安德鲁·休伯曼：你提到了史黛西。

We should probably clarify for people.

我们或许应该向人们澄清。

Tony's referring to the great Stacy Peralta.

托尼指的是伟大的史黛西·佩拉尔塔。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

He was the one who put me on the Bones Brigade when I was still considered sort of a circus act.

当我还被认为是马戏表演时，他就是把我安排到骨头旅的人。

You know, my skating was not really established.

你知道，我的滑冰还没有真正建立起来。

The stuff that I was doing was largely made fun of because people thought that what I was doing was just more like a freak show.

我所做的事情很大程度上被取笑，因为人们认为我所做的更像是一场怪胎表演。

Andrew Huberman: Can you explain more?

安德鲁·休伯曼：你能解释更多吗？

And let me just tell you that my first recollection of you, that I still have that image in my mind, is the finger flip air.

让我告诉你，我对你的第一个记忆，我的脑海里仍然有那个形象，就是手指翻转空气。

Right?

正确的？

So for folks that aren't familiar with skateboarding, people ride around on transition or in the street, handrails, stairs.

因此，对于那些不熟悉滑板的人来说，人们会在过渡时或在街道、扶手、楼梯上骑行。

People probably familiar with all those things.

人们可能熟悉所有这些事情。

But skateboarders will ride up toward the top of the pool or the ramp, and they'll do something on the so-called lip or the coping.

但滑板者会滑向泳池顶部或坡道，他们会在所谓的边缘或顶部做一些事情。

That's to ride at the edge of it, or they'll go above it, like, in the air.

那就是骑在它的边缘，否则他们会飞到它上面，就像在空中一样。

But I recall seeing you do the finger flip air.

但我记得看到你做手指翻转动作。

I'd never seen anyone flip a board in the air.

我从未见过有人在空中翻转棋盘。

I'd seen people do varials.

我见过人们做变量。

So move it.

所以移动它。

This is going to be complicated for people just listening, but just flip it upside down and then catch it in and finger flip air.

对于只听的人来说这会很复杂，但只需将其颠倒过来，然后将其抓住并用手指翻转空气即可。

I remember that was a jaw drop, right?

我记得那是下巴都掉下来了，对吧？

It was like, so if that was considered circus era or circus-like, then I don't know what it was being compared to, because at the time, we probably watched that.

就像，如果那被认为是马戏时代或类似马戏团的东西，那么我不知道它与什么相比，因为当时我们可能看过那个。

It was in slow motion, as I recall.

我记得那是慢动作。

And we probably watched it 3000 times that summer.

那个夏天我们可能看了 3000 遍。

There was a big group of us that all started skateboarding that summer.

那年夏天，我们一大群人都开始玩滑板。

Tony Hawk: I would say kind of just before that, in that window is when people were more giving me flak for what I was doing, because I was mostly doing board variation stuff, but I still didn't have the height.

托尼·霍克：我想说的是，就在那之前，在那个窗口期，人们对我所做的事情给予了更多的批评，因为我主要是在做董事会变化的事情，但我仍然没有足够的高度。

The height in terms of getting in the air.

就进入空中而言的高度。

So I was doing all this stuff kind of right at coping level.

所以我在应对层面上做了所有这些事情。

And so people weren't taking it into consideration or giving it much merit because it was just like, oh, he's doing a little board twist or a board turn.

所以人们并没有考虑到它，也没有给予它太多的优点，因为这就像，哦，他正在做一点板扭转或板转动。

And then when I started to get some height, around the time you saw and started doing those tricks visibly way up high, that's when the shift happened in terms of more acceptance.

然后当我开始达到一定高度时，大约在你看到并开始明显地在高处做这些技巧的时候，就在更多接受度方面发生了转变。

But I was still labeled as, like, a trick skater, robot skater.

但我仍然被贴上特技滑冰运动员、机器人滑冰运动员的标签。

And then you had Christian Hosoi, who was all style, airs higher than anyone.

然后是克里斯蒂安·细井（Christian Hosoi），他很有风格，气质比任何人都高。

Anytime he did a trick, it was going to be so flashy and so amazing.

每当他表演一个技巧时，它都会那么华丽，那么令人惊叹。

Andrew Huberman: And rock star personality.

Andrew Huberman：还有摇滚明星的个性。

Tony Hawk: And rock star personality.

托尼·霍克：还有摇滚明星的个性。

And so in that era, it was very divided.

所以在那个时代，是非常分裂的。

It was like no one liked us both, you know what I mean?

就好像没有人喜欢我们两个，你知道我的意思吗？

It was just so strange to be of that age and of doing something that had never really been established, and then suddenly I'm pitted against another skater, and we're just trying to make our way through teen years and skateboarding.

在那个年纪，做一些从未真正建立起来的事情真是太奇怪了，然后突然我与另一个滑手竞争，我们只是试图度过青少年时期和滑板。

It was hard.

这很难。

I got bullied.

我被欺负了。

Yes, I was successful.

是的，我成功了。

Yes, I was-- But Thrasher Magazine would talk shit about my performance when I would win.

是的，我是——但是当我获胜时，Thrasher 杂志会谈论我的表现。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I remember that because I was from Northern California, and Thrasher Magazine was a skateboard magazine from Northern California.

Andrew Huberman：是的，我记得，因为我来自北加州，Thrasher Magazine 是北加州的一份滑板杂志。

I actually wrote for them for a while when I was a postdoc to make some extra money under a different name, folks.

伙计们，当我还是一名博士后时，我实际上为他们写过一段时间，以用不同的名字赚一些额外的钱。

But you can try and find those articles.

但您可以尝试找到这些文章。

They're out there.

他们就在那里。

And then in Southern California, it was Skateboarder Mag, TransWorld, mostly TransWorld Skateboarding.

然后在南加州，有《Skateboarder Mag》、《TransWorld》，主要是《TransWorld Skateboarding》。

Tony Hawk: Yeah, it was TransWorld Skateboarding and Thrasher Magazine were the two the rivals, right?

Tony Hawk：是的，TransWorld Skateboarding 和 Thrasher Magazine 是两个竞争对手，对吧？

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman: So, yeah, I recall some of those things that were said.

Andrew Huberman：所以，是的，我记得其中一些内容。

It just is amazing to me, but it brings about a really important lesson, which is that kid that gets made fun of, if they're determined and they love what they're doing, that's going to be the kid that blows everyone away later.

这对我来说真是太神奇了，但它带来了一个非常重要的教训，那就是那个被取笑的孩子，如果他们下定决心并且热爱他们正在做的事情，那将是那个让每个人都惊叹不已的孩子。

And I know this for sure because I'll never forget.

我确信这一点，因为我永远不会忘记。

Do you remember the Back to the City contests that were held in San Francisco?

您还记得在旧金山举行的“重返城市”比赛吗？

So I went to those.

所以我去了那些。

They were in the drain fountains in front of City Hall.

他们在市政厅前面的排水喷泉里。

I remember getting there one day, and there was this guy with kind of like Afro-like hair pushing around, and he was doing what are called daffies.

我记得有一天到达那里，有一个有着非洲式头发的家伙在四处走动，他正在做一种所谓的“达菲”。

He had two skateboards, and he was kind of like weaving around.

他有两个滑板，他有点喜欢四处走动。

And I remember know San Francisco's got its issues now, but back then it was rough also for different reasons.

我记得旧金山现在遇到了问题，但当时由于不同的原因也很困难。

I remember thinking, like, this guy's going to get beat up.

我记得我当时想，这家伙会被殴打的。

I hung out with the Embarcadero crew.

我和内河码头的船员一起出去玩。

I was like, this guy's going to get beat down.

我当时想，这家伙会被打败的。

That guy was Mark Gonzales.

那个人就是马克·冈萨雷斯。

Tony Hawk: Oh, yeah.

托尼·霍克：哦，是的。

Andrew Huberman: So one of the greatest, perhaps the greatest street skateboarder, if you can't really define these things, greatest and whatnot in skateboarding, you know, I remember thinking, this guy's just a kook.

Andrew Huberman：所以，最伟大的，也许是最伟大的街头滑板手之一，如果你不能真正定义这些东西，滑板运动中最伟大的东西，你知道，我记得我想，这家伙只是一个怪人。

And then I realized who it was.

然后我意识到那是谁了。

And then I realized he was just like any other kid there at some level.

然后我意识到他在某种程度上和那里的其他孩子一样。

And then a lot of the kids that got teased early on, they stuck with it.

然后很多早期被嘲笑的孩子，他们坚持了下来。

Five years later, I'm seeing them in the magazines, and I think about this with podcasting, too.

五年后，我在杂志上看到了他们，我也在播客中思考了这一点。

There have been some podcasters that have reached out early on and had questions, and I look at their stuff, and one's initial impression can be like, what are they doing here?

有一些播客很早就联系了我并提出了问题，我看了他们的东西，人们的初步印象可能是，他们在这里做什么？

And then you just see them two years later, three years later, and they're doing amazingly well.

然后你会在两年后、三年后看到他们，他们的表现非常好。

And you're like, this guy or gal is here for good.

你会想，这个男人或女孩永远在这里。

They're probably going to be top of the game in a few years.

他们可能会在几年内成为游戏中的佼佼者。

So you never count anybody out.

所以你永远不会把任何人排除在外。

When you would go to sleep at night in that era, were you, like, laying on the pillow going like, oh, my God, people hate me.

在那个时代，当你晚上睡觉时，你是否会躺在枕头上说，哦，天啊，人们讨厌我。

There's stuff in the magazines.

杂志上有一些东西。

I got to push harder.

我必须加倍努力。

This is hard.

这很难。

Did you talk to your dad about it?

你和你爸爸谈过这件事吗？

I mean, again, it's a lot to bear.

我的意思是，再一次，这需要承受很多。

Even as an adult, I can only imagine what it's like to bear as a 15-year-old kid.

即使作为一个成年人，我也只能想象作为一个15岁的孩子承受的感觉。

Tony Hawk: I didn't really have a support group or any resource to voice those concerns.

托尼·霍克：我确实没有支持小组或任何资源来表达这些担忧。

I just knew I wanted to keep getting better.

我只知道我想继续变得更好。

That was it.

就是这样。

And so, if anything, if I was worried about those voices, if I was worried about whatever take people had on me, I knew I was just going to go back to the skate park and learn more tricks.

所以，如果有的话，如果我担心这些声音，如果我担心人们对我的看法，我知道我只是要回到滑板公园并学习更多技巧。

And at some point, I had so much of that as a foundation that it was sort of undeniable that, well, he can do all this stuff and he doesn't just do it at his home park.

在某些时候，我有这么多作为基础，这是不可否认的，嗯，他可以做所有这些事情，而且他不仅仅在他的家乡公园做。

And I think that's probably when the tide turned for me, is when I started to do well at other events, namely Upland Pipeline, which was for the most part the most frightening pool that we could ride.

我认为这可能是我的潮流发生转变的时候，就是我开始在其他赛事中表现出色的时候，即高地管道赛，这在很大程度上是我们可以骑的最可怕的游泳池。

Andrew Huberman: The thing was big, but I also recall the hips, as they're called, like the transitions, the way they match up were super tight.

Andrew Huberman：事情很大，但我也记得臀部，就像它们的过渡一样，它们匹配的方式非常紧密。

Tony Hawk: Lot of vert, giant coping, super rough.

托尼霍克：很多垂直，巨大的顶部，超级粗糙。

Like if you fell in Upland, you're getting chewed up.

就像如果你跌倒在高地，你就会被咬碎一样。

It's pulling your knee pads down.

它正在拉低你的护膝。

Andrew Huberman: I didn't know that because from the photos I wouldn't know that.

Andrew Huberman：我不知道这一点，因为从照片中我不会知道这一点。

Tony Hawk: Oh, it was treacherous.

托尼·霍克：哦，这太危险了。

It really was.

确实如此。

And I wanted to do well at the event and I would drive up there every weekend.

我想在这次活动中表现出色，每个周末我都会开车去那里。

My friend Greg Smith was a freestyler, but he lived near Upland, and so I would go drive Friday after school, straight to Upland, skate at night, skate Saturday all day, skate Sunday early, and then drive home because I live in San Diego, and I just made it my mission to figure that thing out because that was the proving ground for me.

我的朋友格雷格·史密斯是一名自由泳运动员，但他住在高地附近，所以我会在周五放学后开车，直接去高地，晚上滑冰，周六全天滑冰，周日早点滑冰，然后开车回家，因为我住在圣地亚哥，我只是把弄清楚这一点作为我的使命，因为那是我的试验场。

So if I could skate that, I could go skate anything.

所以如果我能滑冰，我就可以滑任何东西。

Andrew Huberman: As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 daily since 2012.

Andrew Huberman：正如你们很多人所知，自 2012 年以来我一直每天服用 AG1。

So I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast.

所以我很高兴他们赞助这个播客。

AG1 is a vitamin, mineral, probiotic drink that's designed to meet all of your foundational nutrition needs.

AG1 是一种维生素、矿物质、益生菌饮料，旨在满足您的所有基本营养需求。

Now, of course, I try to get enough servings of vitamins and minerals through whole food sources that include vegetables and fruits every day, but oftentimes I simply can't get enough servings.

当然，现在我尝试每天通过包括蔬菜和水果在内的天然食物来源获取足够的维生素和矿物质，但通常我根本无法获取足够的份量。

But with AG1, I'm sure to get enough vitamins and minerals and the probiotics that I need.

但有了 AG1，我肯定能获得足够的维生素和矿物质以及我需要的益生菌。

And it also contains adaptogens to help buffer stress.

它还含有适应原来帮助缓解压力。

Simply put, I always feel better when I take AG1.

简而言之，当我服用 AG1 时，我总是感觉更好。

I have more focus and energy and I sleep better, and it also happens to taste great.

我更加专注和精力充沛，睡得更好，而且味道也很好。

For all these reasons, whenever I'm asked, if you could take just one supplement, what would it be?

出于所有这些原因，每当我被问到，如果你只能服用一种补充剂，你会选择什么？

I answer AG1.

我回答AG1。

If you'd like to try AG1, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.

如果您想尝试 AG1，请访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 以获得特别优惠。

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从即日起至 2023 年 8 月 12 日，AG1 将赠送 10 个免费旅行包以及一年的维生素 D3 K2。

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同样，如果您访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman，您还可以获得 10 个免费旅行包以及一年维生素 D3 K2 的特别优惠。

So it's clear you had an enormous drive.

所以很明显你有巨大的动力。

Let's talk a little bit about the process of trying tricks and the anxiety associated with it.

我们来谈谈尝试技巧的过程以及与之相关的焦虑。

Did you, and do you have a sort of systematic process?

你有吗？你有某种系统化的流程吗？

Was it, I'm going to learn the basics first.

是吗，我先去学基础知识。

Like, did you say that?

比如说，你是这么说的吗？

Did you say, okay, I'm going to learn how to do stuff at coping level.

你是不是说，好吧，我要学习如何在应对水平上做事。

Then I'm going to do a little air, then I'm going to go bigger.

然后我会做一点空气，然后我会做更大的。

I'm going to do this?

我要做这个吗？

Or did you just sort of try what you wanted to try?

或者你只是尝试了你想尝试的事情？

And you obviously weren't haphazard about it.

而且你显然不是偶然的。

It seems you're pretty systematic about exploring what's possible and then pushing forward little by little.

看起来你非常系统地探索可能性，然后一点一点地推进。

But, yeah, Maybe you could talk a little bit about how you have conceptualized.

但是，是的，也许你可以谈谈你是如何概念化的。

Okay, tomorrow I want to try this.

好吧，明天我想试试这个。

Tony Hawk: It comes in different forms, but for the most part, I think about how I could combine existing tricks.

托尼·霍克：它有不同的形式，但在大多数情况下，我思考如何结合现有的技巧。

And would this trick work going into this trick?

这个技巧在这个技巧中会起作用吗？

And could your body position shift, or would it all work in unison?

你的身体位置会改变吗？或者这一切会协调一致吗？

And when I approach a new trick, I'm saying more in the last 20 years, my thought process is, I have all the pieces to this.

当我尝试一个新技巧时，我会说过去 20 年里更多的事情，我的思考过程是，我已经掌握了所有的细节。

I've done every bit of it.

我已经做到了每一点。

I've done the first part of the trick in another form, I've done the second part or the grinding of it or whatever, usually in some other basic way.

我已经以另一种形式完成了技巧的第一部分，我已经完成了第二部分或打磨它或其他什么，通常以其他一些基本方式。

And then the landing is, well, the landing is from whatever that is.

然后着陆是，好吧，着陆是来自任何东西。

And if you can throw all those things together and make the timing work, it's going to work.

如果你能把所有这些事情放在一起并安排好时间，那么它就会成功。

And I never went at something with some haphazard approach or throwing caution to the wind, like, hope this, see what happens.

我从来没有采取随意的方法或把谨慎抛在脑后，比如，希望如此，看看会发生什么。

It's always very much like, I know I have all these things and so I just have to put them together.

总是很像，我知道我拥有所有这些东西，所以我只需要把它们放在一起。

And I mean, now things are so technical that my same approach that I'm doing hundreds of times, one of them just works.

我的意思是，现在事情变得如此技术性，以至于我已经做过数百次的相同方法，其中一个就行得通。

And it's not because I committed to that one.

这并不是因为我承诺了这一点。

It's because of some tiny fractional adjustment that happened that I didn't even know happened, and it just worked.

这是因为发生了一些微小的部分调整，我什至不知道发生了，但它就起作用了。

And that kind of is the curse of what tricks are now.

这就是现在伎俩的诅咒。

Because there are plenty of moves that I've done over the last ten years, even that I only did once because it was too fucking hard to get to and I didn't learn from that one make.

因为在过去的十年里我做了很多动作，即使我只做了一次，因为它太他妈难了，而且我没有从那个动作中学到东西。

And that's hard to accept because in the past I was learning tricks to have them in my arsenal, that I could just throw them down at a competition or a demo.

这很难接受，因为过去我正在学习技巧，以便将它们放入我的武器库中，我可以在比赛或演示中将它们扔掉。

I've got that in my pocket.

我把它放在口袋里了。

These days?

这些日子？

Like that trick, for instance.

例如，像那个把戏。

I did a 360 shove-it, 5-0 to fakie.

我做了一个 360 度全推，5-0 战胜了 fakie。

Andrew Huberman: Let's break that down.

Andrew Huberman：让我们来分解一下。

360 shove-it.

360度推力。

So who's going to take this on?

那么谁来承担这件事呢？

I'll let you take this on.

我会让你承担这件事。

I can try from my knowledge and perspective, but why don't --

我可以从我的知识和角度尝试，但为什么不——

Tony Hawk: 360 shove-it is pushing the board with your feet and letting it spin a full 360 rotation under your feet and then landing back on it.

托尼霍克：360 度推力——用脚推动木板，让它在你脚下旋转 360 度，然后再落地。

It's a trick that people do, usually on flat ground.

这是人们通常在平地上做的把戏。

I've learned to do it up on the vert walls.

我学会了在垂直墙上做这件事。

Like, I can do 360 shove-it kind of in the air, but I'm doing that.

就像，我可以在空中进行 360 度旋转，但我正在这样做。

I'm doing a 360 shove-it, and then I'm landing on my truck, right.

我正在做一个 360 度推力，然后我降落在我的卡车上，对吧。

Andrew Huberman: Like the axle between the wheels on.

Andrew Huberman：就像车轮之间的轴一样。

Tony Hawk: One axle in what we call 5-0 position, which is basically a wheelie on the truck.

托尼·霍克：一根轴处于我们所说的 5-0 位置，这基本上是卡车上的前轮离地。

So everything is so precise.

所以一切都是那么精确。

I got to do a 360 shove-it at exactly a certain spot on the wall.

我必须在墙上的某个特定位置进行 360 度推力。

I've got to catch it so that my truck lands when my foot hits it, I can't push it into the truck because that screws up my balance.

我必须抓住它，这样当我的脚碰到它时，我的卡车就能着陆，我不能将它推入卡车，因为这会破坏我的平衡。

So it has to land on the truck.

所以它必须降落在卡车上。

I have to land with my weight perfectly set back enough that I can come in backwards because I'm doing this trick and I'm going to come in fakie, right.

我必须在着陆时将体重完美地向后倾斜，这样我才能向后进入，因为我正在做这个动作，而且我会以fakie的方式进入，对吧。

360 shove-it, 5-0 to coming in forward is a whole different beast.

360°全速进攻，5-0的进攻，是完全不同的野兽。

I could probably do that just in a few tries.

我可能只需尝试几次就能做到这一点。

But the idea that I have to land on this thing, balance on it like a teeter totter, and then reverse my energy and come in fakie.

但我的想法是，我必须降落在这个东西上，像跷跷板一样在上面保持平衡，然后扭转我的能量并进入 fakie。

Andrew Huberman: Backward.

安德鲁·休伯曼：落后。

Tony Hawk: It's so hard.

托尼·霍克：这太难了。

It's so hard to get into the right position.

想要进入正确的位置是非常困难的。

So anytime I try it, there's like a one in ten chance I'm even going to get into the position I need.

因此，每当我尝试时，我什至有十分之一的机会进入我需要的位置。

And that's the one I have to commit to.

这就是我必须承诺的。

So every time I do it, it's so intense, and it takes so much commitment and so much mind ...

所以每次我做这件事的时候，它都是如此强烈，需要如此多的承诺和如此多的心思......

I don't even know how to explain it.

我什至不知道如何解释。

That you have shut everything else out except this one moment and this one fractional piece that you have to make work.

你已经把其他一切都排除在外，除了这一刻和你必须完成的这一小部分。

And I've done it once, and I would love to do it again, but I know what it's going to.

我已经做过一次了，我很想再做一次，但我知道会发生什么。

It's going to take the same amount of effort.

这将需要付出同样的努力。

I didn't learn from that one that I made some trick that makes it happen every time.

我没有从那个人身上学到我做了一些技巧，让它每次都发生。

It's all so technical and there's so many things that can go wrong that I'll accept that, okay.

这一切都太技术性了，而且有很多事情可能会出错，所以我会接受这一点，好吧。

I did it once.

我做过一次。

Andrew Huberman: In thinking about the 360 shove-it, 5-0 fakie, was that something that you thought of the night before?

Andrew Huberman：在思考 360 度全推、5-0 fakie 时，你前一天晚上也想到过这个吗？

You decide that day?

那天你决定吗？

Do you ever use visualization?

你曾经使用过可视化吗？

Have you ever had learning come to you in a dream or find that you try, try, tried something, went to sleep that night, next day, made it?

你是否曾经在梦中经历过学习，或者发现你尝试、尝试、尝试某件事，那天晚上睡觉，第二天就成功了？

Anything like that?

有这样的事吗？

Tony Hawk: Yes.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of the night and I'll write down something because it's like, oh, there's this trick.

有时我会在半夜醒来，然后写下一些东西，因为它就像，哦，有这个技巧。

Oh, I think I could do that.

哦，我想我可以做到。

Yeah.

是的。

Okay, I'm going to write it down.

好吧，我要把它写下来。

Andrew Huberman: So you dream about skateboarding from time to time?

Andrew Huberman：所以你时不时会梦想滑板？

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Well, yeah, that has shifted a bit after I got hurt, but, yeah.

嗯，是的，在我受伤后情况发生了一些变化，但是，是的。

I used to dream that I can't skate, like I'm trying and that it feels like the ramp's made of carpet.

我曾经梦见我不能滑冰，就像我正在尝试的那样，感觉就像坡道是用地毯做的。

I can't get the speed, I can't get the timing.

我无法掌握速度，也无法掌握时间。

And then as I went through this traumatic injury, my dreams shifted to, wow, I can skate.

然后，当我经历了这次创伤性伤害时，我的梦想变成了，哇，我可以滑冰了。

I can do all my tricks again.

我可以再次施展我所有的伎俩。

Andrew Huberman: Oh, interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，有趣。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Andrew Huberman: A little piece of science around the can't-skate piece, or when people feel like they're bolted down in a dream or they can't run away.

Andrew Huberman：关于不能滑冰的部分的一小段科学，或者当人们感觉自己被困在梦中或无法逃跑时。

There's this one phase of sleep called rapid eye movement sleep, where the brain is very active.

有一个睡眠阶段称为快速眼动睡眠，此时大脑非常活跃。

The dreams associated with it tend to be very vivid, and at the same time, we are completely paralyzed.

与之相关的梦往往非常生动，但与此同时，我们却完全瘫痪了。

And the idea is that no one really knows why, but that it's the case that we're paralyzed to prevent us from acting out our dreams.

这个想法是，没有人真正知道为什么，但事实就是我们瘫痪了，阻止我们实现我们的梦想。

It's also an interesting neurochemical phenomenon because during these rapid eye movement dreams, they tend to be very intense, but the body can't release adrenaline.

这也是一种有趣的神经化学现象，因为在这些快速眼球运动的梦中，它们往往非常强烈，但身体无法释放肾上腺素。

So it's almost like its own form of trauma therapy.

所以它几乎就像是一种自己的创伤治疗形式。

It's like you're experiencing this intense thing in your mind, but your body can't react.

就好像你的头脑正在经历这种强烈的事情，但你的身体却无法做出反应。

And so oftentimes people have argued that that's why you feel like you want to move and you can't, because you actually can't.

人们常常争辩说，这就是为什么你感觉自己想要搬家却不能搬家，因为你实际上不能搬家。

Some people have woken up while still a bit paralyzed in REM.

有些人在快速眼动睡眠中仍然有点麻痹的时候就醒了。

Have you ever had that happen where you wake up?

你醒来的时候有过这样的经历吗？

Tony Hawk: But actually, a couple of my kids have struggled with that a couple of times.

托尼·霍克：但实际上，我的几个孩子曾多次为此苦苦挣扎。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

REM interference, it's called.

这就是所谓的快速眼动干扰。

It's not dangerous, and usually people can jolt themselves out, but it's kind of terrifying.

这并不危险，通常人们可以把自己摇醒，但这有点可怕。

So that's interesting.

这很有趣。

So we'll get to a discussion about the recent injury, and thankfully, recovery from the injury — not miraculous, because that makes it seem as if it's surprising.

因此，我们将讨论最近的伤病，值得庆幸的是，从伤病中恢复——这并不奇迹，因为这让人看起来很惊讶。

Frankly, I'm not surprised that you've recovered, but it is spectacular the way you have.

坦白说，我对你的康复并不感到惊讶，但你的康复方式真是令人惊叹。

But you're saying that in your dreams before the injury, you would think about skateboarding, but you felt like there was a kind of can't do it.

但你是说受伤前在梦里会想到滑板，但感觉有一种做不到的感觉。

Tony Hawk: When I was doing it in my dream, there was always some roadblock that I just could like, why can't I get any speed?

托尼·霍克：当我在梦中做这件事时，总有一些我想要的障碍，为什么我无法获得任何速度？

Why can't I snap or do this trick?

为什么我不能捕捉或执行此技巧？

It's more in the moments where — twilight moments where I'm kind of awake and I'm thinking about tricks, that everything else falls away and I can actually focus on what kind of new moves to come up with.

更多的是在黄昏时刻，我有点清醒，正在思考技巧，其他一切都会消失，我实际上可以专注于想出什么样的新动作。

An example of that was recently, I went to the X Games in Japan a few weeks ago, and I was thinking I was going to go more to show my support because they had a vert event.

一个例子是最近，几周前我去了日本的 X Games，我想我应该去更多的地方来表达我的支持，因为他们有一个 vert 活动。

There's not a lot of vert events anymore.

不再有很多垂直事件了。

So if there's a vert event, it's kind of like, if you build it, I will come because I want to show my support.

因此，如果有 vert 活动，就像是，如果你构建了它，我就会来，因为我想表达我的支持。

That's kind of where my heart is.

这就是我的心所在。

And they had a best trick event, and I thought, man, maybe I could get in the best trick.

他们举办了一场最佳特技比赛，我想，伙计，也许我可以参加最好的特技比赛。

Is there anything new, though?

不过，有什么新的东西吗？

And I'm still recovering from my leg.

我的腿还在恢复中。

And then at some point I was falling asleep and I thought, oh, I could do that trick and come in 180.

然后在某个时候，我快要睡着了，我想，哦，我可以做这个动作，然后以 180 度的速度来。

I know I could do that with my current state and not getting that much speed.

我知道以我目前的状态，我可以做到这一点，但速度不会那么快。

So to explain what I was doing is half cab body varial to backside blunt.

因此，要解释一下我所做的就是将驾驶室车身的一半变钝到背面变钝。

Andrew Huberman: Okay, we can walk through this.

Andrew Huberman：好的，我们可以逐步解决这个问题。

Half cab has come up backwards.

半个驾驶室已经向后升起。

Go 360 right.

向右旋转 360 度。

So half of that would go one.

所以一半就变成了一个。

Tony Hawk: As I approach the top of the ramp, I body varial.

托尼·霍克：当我接近坡道顶部时，我身体变差。

That means I jump around and then I jump around on my board, and then I make sure that it lands with my two trucks out and my tail on the coping, which is very precarious.

这意味着我跳来跳去，然后在滑板上跳来跳去，然后我确保它落地时我的两辆卡车都在外面，我的尾巴在顶部，这是非常危险的。

And I've done that and come in fakie before.

我以前也这么做过，而且也曾加入过 fakie。

Andrew Huberman: That's the blunt piece.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这是最钝的部分。

Tony Hawk: That's the blunt.

托尼·霍克：这是直言不讳的。

So I've done that.

所以我就这么做了。

And then you have to use your feet to lift up the board.

然后你必须用脚抬起木板。

Come and fakie, right?

来fakie吧？

I've done that twice.

我已经这样做过两次了。

And I thought, well, wonder if there's something I could do like that.

我想，好吧，想知道我是否可以做一些类似的事情。

And then I realized that if I just keep coming around and I come in backside direction, that keeps my body spinning and that might actually be easier.

然后我意识到，如果我继续转过来并且朝后方向走，这会让我的身体保持旋转，这实际上可能会更容易。

It wasn't, but I figured it out.

事实并非如此，但我想通了。

Andrew Huberman: I think I saw a clip of this on Instagram.

Andrew Huberman：我想我在 Instagram 上看到了这段视频。

Tony Hawk: I did it.

托尼·霍克：我做到了。

Yeah, I did it.

是的，我做到了。

X Games.

X游戏。

And I was like, it was my last run.

我当时想，这是我最后一次跑步。

It didn't move the needle.

它没有移动针。

I got seventh place.

我得了第七名。

But for me it was a huge moment.

但对我来说，这是一个重要的时刻。

Andrew Huberman: It felt amazing, I bet.

Andrew Huberman：我敢打赌，感觉棒极了。

Tony Hawk: Oh, yeah, for sure.

托尼·霍克：哦，是的，当然。

It was like weeks of preparation and trying to figure this thing out.

这就像几周的准备并试图解决这个问题。

I made it twice before the event on my own, alone on my ramp.

在活动开始前，我独自一人在坡道上完成了两次。

But that's just an example of.

但这只是一个例子。

I was literally falling asleep and then all of a sudden it was like half cab body varial backside blunt.

我真的快要睡着了，然后突然之间，就像半个驾驶室车身变钝了一样。

Andrew Huberman: I love it.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢它。

That liminal state between wakefulness and sleep is such a beautiful state that if one is open to ideas showing up there, they almost always do.

清醒和睡眠之间的临界状态是一种如此美妙的状态，如果一个人对其中出现的想法持开放态度，他们几乎总是会这样做。

Tony Hawk: I start trying it the next morning.

托尼·霍克：我第二天早上就开始尝试。

Andrew Huberman: Do you ever find that when you're taking walks or in the shower or not thinking about skateboarding?

Andrew Huberman：当你散步、洗澡或者不去想滑板时，你有没有发现过这种情况？

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

It's usually in the sort of mundane moments that I get inspiration.

我通常是在平凡的时刻获得灵感。

Andrew Huberman: Do you have practices for pure relaxation aside from socialization?

Andrew Huberman：除了社交之外，你还有纯粹放松的做法吗？

Tony Hawk: I know.

托尼·霍克：我知道。

I think that's something I've been lacking.

我想这是我一直所欠缺的。

I never was good at warming up, stretching, post warmup, or relaxing ...

我从来都不擅长热身、伸展、热身后或放松......

meditation.

冥想。

Nothing.

没有什么。

I go skate and it's on.

我去滑冰，它就开始了。

And as I've gotten older, I realize that's not the best technique.

随着年龄的增长，我意识到这不是最好的技术。

But it's worked so far.

但到目前为止它已经奏效了。

Andrew Huberman: It has worked.

安德鲁·休伯曼：它已经奏效了。

So for you, it's go, hopefully a little bit of warmup if you.

所以对你来说，开始吧，希望能有一点热身。

Tony Hawk: I have more of a sort of OCD warmup run that I use to gauge how I'm feeling, but I kind of have to get through that.

托尼·霍克：我有更多的强迫症热身跑，我用它来衡量我的感受，但我必须克服它。

Andrew Huberman: Like a surgeon.

安德鲁·休伯曼：就像一名外科医生。

When a surgeon's about to do a surgery, they don't warm up.

当外科医生即将进行手术时，他们不会进行热身。

They just check off the various boxes of this is here, that's there, make sure that they're comfortable in their environment and then they do the lifesaving work.

他们只是勾选这里、那里的各个方框，确保他们在自己的环境中感到舒适，然后他们就开始拯救生命的工作。

Tony Hawk: Yeah, I'd say my warmup run is kind of basic tricks, but they give me a sense of how stiff or what I need to adjust for for the rest of the day.

托尼·霍克：是的，我会说我的热身跑是一种基本技巧，但它们让我知道今天剩下的时间有多么僵硬或需要调整什么。

So I guess it's not so OCD, but I definitely feel like I got to go through that routine.

所以我想这并不是那么强迫症，但我绝对觉得我必须经历这个例行公事。

Andrew Huberman: What feels the best?

Andrew Huberman：什么感觉最好？

I know that making a new trick feels incredible, especially if you've been at it a long time.

我知道创造一个新技巧感觉不可思议，尤其是如果你已经练习了很长时间的话。

Dialing it in so that you can do it again and again is its own form of reward.

拨动它，让你可以一次又一次地这样做，这本身就是一种奖励。

But what is the maybe list of two or three things that just feels so good?

但是，可能有两三件让人感觉如此美好的事情是什么？

Tony Hawk: Well, that for sure learning new tricks.

托尼·霍克：嗯，那肯定是在学习新技巧。

Not even that it's something that I created, but just doing something that I've never done before.

甚至不是我创造的东西，而只是做一些我以前从未做过的事情。

When I first learned varials.

当我第一次学习变量时。

Backside varials, no one had done backside varials before.

背面变量，以前没有人做过背面变量。

They'd only done them frontside.

他们只在正面做了。

And a varial is where you reach down, grab your board, jump in the air, and then turn it 180 under your feet.

变速是指你向下伸手，抓住你的冲浪板，跳到空中，然后将它在你的脚下旋转 180 度。

It's like a shove-it, but you're guiding with your hand.

这就像推，但你用手引导。

I learned that halfway up the pool, the main pool at Oasis with no one around.

我在泳池的半路上得知，绿洲的主泳池周围没有人。

And the feeling I got when I rode away was something that I had never experienced.

当我骑马离开时的感觉是我从未经历过的。

And it is literally the buzz that I've been chasing ever since, because it was like I created something.

从那时起，这就是我一直在追逐的嗡嗡声，因为它就像我创造了一些东西。

Andrew Huberman: Varials below coping was the butt.

Andrew Huberman：顶部下方的变体是屁股。

Tony Hawk: That was it.

托尼·霍克：就是这样。

It really was.

确实如此。

And if you saw a video of it, you'd be like, that thing?

如果你看到它的视频，你会想，那个东西？

What can I say?

我能说什么？

It was the first time that I thought of it.

这是我第一次想到这一点。

I went through all the motions of it.

我经历了所有的动作。

I did the work and I figured it out and no one cared.

我做了这项工作，我解决了这个问题，但没有人关心。

But at some point, I was able to do it six feet in the air and do a full 360 varial.

但在某个时刻，我能够在六英尺高的空中完成 360 度全方位旋转。

And so that was the building block.

这就是构建块。

But that feeling was like no other.

但那种感觉是独一无二的。

I'd say that.

我会这么说。

And then just even to strip everything else away, the most basic tricks, like a backside ollie, is a no-handed aerial.

然后，即使抛开其他一切，最基本的技巧，比如后侧奥利，就是徒手空中技巧。

That used to be what it was called, backside no-handed aerial.

这就是所谓的“背面无手天线”。

It feels so good because even to this day, people say, how does the board stay on your feet?

这种感觉非常好，因为即使到了今天，人们仍然会说，滑板是如何保持站立的？

And I can't even tell you how the board stays on my feet.

我什至无法告诉你滑板是如何保持在我的脚上的。

I know how to maneuver it and I know how to keep the pressure on it and the friction going.

我知道如何操纵它，我知道如何保持对它的压力和摩擦力。

And backside ollie's is like, I think it's like a marvel of physics.

奥利的背面就像，我认为这就像物理学的奇迹。

And a clean backside ollie, to me, feels good as anything.

对我来说，干净的背面奥利感觉很好。

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman: It's a beautiful thing to behold.

Andrew Huberman：这是一件美丽的事情。

I confess, I've never done a legitimate backside ollie on vert.

我承认，我从来没有在垂直方向上做过合法的后侧奥利。

On a miniramp, sure, but not on vert.

当然，在小坡道上，但不是在垂直坡道上。

So I can't relate to the feeling.

所以我无法体会这种感觉。

But love, love, love the fact that you brought us back to that early varial-below-coping feeling, and that that marks the essence of what feels so good when you do something else.

但是，爱，爱，爱你让我们回到了早期的那种“低于应对”的感觉，这标志着当你做其他事情时感觉如此好的本质。

As a neuroscientist, I see as a chemical stamp.

作为一名神经科学家，我将其视为化学印记。

It's like a chemical fingerprint of progress, right?

这就像进步的化学指纹，对吧？

And I'm also delighted to hear that it still feels that good to do these things, because I don't think anyone can have the kind of lifelong progression that you've had, and it's still going, without not just love of the thing, but love of the feeling that it brings when no one's around.

我也很高兴听到做这些事情仍然感觉很好，因为我不认为任何人都能拥有你所拥有的那种终生进步，而且它仍在继续，不仅仅是对这件事的热爱，而且是对它在没有人在身边时带来的感觉的热爱。

Because you said skating your ramp by yourself.

因为你说你自己在坡道上滑冰。

So how often are you on your ramp with no one's filming for Instagram?

那么，您有多少次在无人拍摄 Instagram 的情况下在坡道上拍摄呢？

Nothing for a video, nothing for a video game.

没有什么适合视频，也没有什么适合视频游戏。

None of that.

都不是。

Maybe there's ...

也许有...

maybe other guys are around, gals around.

也许周围还有其他男人、女孩。

We'll talk about gals, too, because one of the big shifts in skateboarding since I started is that there's some amazing female skateboarders now.

我们也会谈论女孩，因为自从我开始滑板以来，滑板运动的一大变化就是现在出现了一些令人惊叹的女性滑板运动员。

There's a young lady, in fact, that's been skateboarding at your ramp.

事实上，有一位年轻女士一直在你的坡道上玩滑板。

Forgive me, I can't remember her name.

原谅我，我记不起她的名字了。

Tony Hawk: Is it Reese?

托尼·霍克：是里斯吗？

Andrew Huberman: Reese.

安德鲁·休伯曼：里斯。

Tony Hawk: Reese Nelson.

托尼·霍克：里斯·尼尔森。

Andrew Huberman: Goodness.

安德鲁·休伯曼：天哪。

Goodness gracious.

善良仁慈。

Tony Hawk: I know.

托尼·霍克：我知道。

Andrew Huberman: She is so good.

安德鲁·休伯曼：她太棒了。

Tony Hawk: So good.

托尼·霍克：太好了。

Andrew Huberman: So good.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太好了。

So we'll get back to that.

所以我们会回到这个话题。

But I think that people starting any kind of sport or academic career or business or anything, I think people assume that you go from zero to 100 somehow and that there are these people that are just selected by genetics or by luck or by some combination of things to just get it and be better than everybody else.

但我认为，当人们开始任何类型的体育、学术生涯、商业或其他任何事情时，我认为人们会假设你以某种方式从零到一百，并且这些人只是通过基因、运气或某些因素的组合而被选中，只是为了获得它并比其他人更好。

But it's clear that you've spent a lot of time alone driving someplace to skate the next day or alone at the ramp.

但很明显，你花了很多时间独自开车去某个地方第二天滑冰，或者独自在坡道上。

So do you ever reflect on that kind of drive and what that's all about, or is it just so intrinsic to who you are?

那么你有没有反思过这种动力以及它的含义，或者它只是你的本质吗？

Tony Hawk: It's more innate.

托尼·霍克：这更与生俱来。

I don't think about it.

我不考虑这个。

I just know I have to do it.

我只知道我必须这么做。

We can get into it with my injury, but to go back to what you're saying is you're saying that people think that, oh, you were chosen for this, or genetics, whatever.

我们可以讨论我的伤病，但回到你所说的，你是说人们认为，哦，你被选中是因为这个，或者基因，等等。

If you saw--

如果你看到——

Andrew Huberman: Your last name is Hawk after --

安德鲁·休伯曼：你的姓氏是霍克，之后——

Tony Hawk: If you saw me skate when I first started skating, there was no way you'd think that I was a natural or that I had any future in it.

托尼·霍克：如果你在我刚开始滑冰时看到我滑冰，你绝对不会认为我是天生的，或者我有任何未来。

I was all gangly.

我身材瘦长。

I was all over the place.

我到处都是。

I was eating shit left and right.

我左顾右盼地吃屎。

I wasn't good.

我不好。

I wasn't.

我不是。

I wasn't a natural.

我本来就不是一个天生的人

I've seen people that are naturals, and I've seen that how they don't have that drive, they don't have the discipline, and it's not wasted, but they don't take advantage of what they have naturally and for whatever reason.

我见过一些天生的人，我见过他们没有那种动力，他们没有纪律，也没有浪费，但他们没有利用他们天生的优势，无论出于什么原因。

I don't fault anyone for it, but I've seen both sides of it, and I've also seen other skaters who are just driven and who are not really good, kind of sloppy, and become the best.

我不会因此而责怪任何人，但我已经看到了它的两面，我也看到了其他滑冰运动员，他们只是被驱使，他们并不真正优秀，有点马虎，但却成为了最好的。

Andrew Reynolds, when we put him on our team, he was just like me, super gangly.

安德鲁·雷诺兹，当我们把他加入我们的团队时，他就像我一样，超级瘦长。

His board's bouncing around, but he's trying every single trick.

他的棋盘一直在变化，但他正在尝试每一个技巧。

And every time he'd send me a video, it's some new technique that he's figured out.

每次他给我发视频时，都是他想出的新技术。

And he didn't really, by the untrained eye, he didn't have the skill set for.

从未经训练的人看来，他实际上并不具备所需的技能。

And then he became the boss.

然后他就成了老板。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

So I think it's just you have to give that as much weight as natural talent, if not more.

所以我认为你必须给予天赋与天赋同等的重视，甚至更多。

I'd say more, yeah.

我还想多说一点，是的。

Andrew Huberman: I would certainly say more for science and the people who are in the lab late at night and early in the morning and drilling away.

Andrew Huberman：我当然会为科学和那些深夜和清晨在实验室钻探的人们说更多。

Not always the smartest.

并不总是最聪明的。

Certainly not the dumbest, but smart enough to show up when other people are leaving and continue.

当然不是最愚蠢的，但足够聪明，可以在其他人离开时出现并继续前进。

And I think there has to be a little bit of friction internally, maybe externally also, but just some friction.

我认为内部一定有一点摩擦，也许外部也有，但只是一些摩擦。

Some "I'm going to show you."

有些“我要给你看。”

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Okay.

好的。

My best example of that, and I haven't talked about this yet because I did it privately, but I broke my leg doing a McTwist, something that I've done thousands of times.

我最好的例子，我还没有谈论过这个，因为我私下做过，但我在做 McTwist 时摔断了腿，我已经做过数千次了。

Andrew Huberman: In 540.

安德鲁·休伯曼：540 年。

Tony Hawk: 540.

托尼·霍克：540。

Yeah.

是的。

So it's a one-and-a-half spin in the backside direction, but that particular grab that you do makes it a McTwist because it makes you kind of flip upside down.

所以这是向后方向旋转一圈半，但你所做的特殊抓握使其成为旋转，因为它会让你上下翻转。

So it's kind of a one-and-a-half somersault.

所以这有点像一个半跟头。

It's not my trick.

这不是我的伎俩。

It's Mike McGill's trick.

这是迈克·麦吉尔的把戏。

I learned it not long after he created it in 1984.

他 1984 年创作它后不久我就学会了它。

Been doing it ever since.

从那时起就一直这样做。

I'm talking about 40 years of McTwist, right?

我说的是 McTwist 的 40 年历史，对吗？

I've gotten hurt once or twice, but not bad.

我受过一两次伤，但不严重。

Anyway, I fucked around and found out.

无论如何，我搞砸了并发现了。

Did one with no speed last year, thinking I could do it like I was still 20, and got tangled up and broke my femur.

去年我做了一次没有速度的动作，以为我可以像20岁那样做，结果被缠住并折断了我的股骨。

I had a super long recovery.

我的康复时间超长。

I had a false start.

我有一个错误的开始。

I had a nonunion fracture, which means my bone never connected back to itself, and it kept pushing itself further away.

我的骨折不愈合，这意味着我的骨头永远不会自行连接，并且它会不断将自己推得更远。

And that's all in the past.

而那都是过去的事了。

I got a second surgery in November, and all along in the back of my head is, I got to get back to 540, I have to.

我在 11 月份进行了第二次手术，我的脑海里一直在想，我必须回到 540，我必须这样做。

And I can't explain why I have to.

我无法解释为什么我必须这样做。

I hate that it means that much to me, but it's in here.

我讨厌它对我来说意义重大，但它就在这里。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

It's not a sense of pride.

这不是一种自豪感。

It's not like I have to prove this to anyone.

我不必向任何人证明这一点。

I just have to do it.

我只得这么做。

And last week, I did it.

上周，我做到了。

It was so scary.

太可怕了。

And I prepped for it, even down to my diet.

我为此做好了准备，甚至包括我的饮食。

And I stopped drinking altogether.

我完全戒酒了。

And I was like, every time I go to the ramp, I'm just trying 540s, like, to get the spin, to get the landing zone, with no intention of making it, just that I had to get there.

我当时想，每次我去坡道时，我只是尝试 540 秒，比如，获得旋转，到达着陆区，无意成功，只是我必须到达那里。

And then I had to have this heart-to-heart with my wife that she doesn't want to see me get hurt.

然后我必须和我的妻子谈心，她不想看到我受伤。

She doesn't want to see me risking myself at this age anymore.

她不想看到我在这个年纪再冒险了。

She doesn't want to live through another traumatic injury with me.

她不想和我一起经历另一次创伤。

And I had to tell her, like, I have to do this.

我必须告诉她，我必须这样做。

She was gracious and accepting, and that's all I could ask for.

她很和蔼可亲，乐于接受，这就是我所能要求的。

It wasn't like she was like, yeah, you got to go do it, was like, okay, that's who you are.

她并不是说，是的，你必须去做，而是说，好吧，这就是你。

And so she was there.

所以她就在那里。

She was my only spectator.

她是我唯一的观众。

Andrew Huberman: So good.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太好了。

I confess I've seen a video of this, and my first response was F yes.

我承认我看过这个视频，我的第一反应是“是”。

And my second response was, that was really high.

我的第二个回答是，这确实很高。

Like, this is no, just-above-coping 540.

就像，这不是，只是高于应对 540。

This is a head-high 540.

这是一个令人头高的540。

Tony Hawk: I'm not going to make the same mistake I did last time where I tried it low, thinking I just get away with it, anymore.

托尼·霍克：我不会再犯上次那样的错误了，当时我尝试把它调低，以为我可以侥幸逃脱。

So going high was more of a safety measure, which is ironic.

所以走高更多的是一种安全措施，这很讽刺。

The bigger the ramps for me, the safer it is because I have a better landing zone.

对我来说坡道越大，就越安全，因为我有更好的着陆区。

I have more time in the air to adjust.

我有更多的时间在空中进行调整。

And even though it looks spectacular and he's six feet in the air, it's just like, no, I need that.

尽管它看起来很壮观，而且他在空中有六英尺，但就像，不，我需要它。

I can't skate some eight-foot pool.

我不会在八英尺的泳池里滑冰。

I have no landing zone.

我没有着陆区。

I'm too tall.

我太高了。

I move too slowly now to do that kind of stuff.

我现在动作太慢了，做不了那种事。

So that's why you don't see me, like, in the park events, stuff like that.

所以这就是为什么你看不到我，比如，在公园活动中，类似的事情。

You're going to see me on this 14-foot vert ramp because that's my happy place and that's where I'm safe.

你会在这个 14 英尺的垂直坡道上看到我，因为那是我快乐的地方，也是我安全的地方。

But also having my wife there, I just knew I wasn't going to get hurt in front of her because I would have been such trouble.

但有我的妻子在那里，我就知道我不会在她面前受伤，因为我会很麻烦。

Andrew Huberman: The emotional support and pressure is a real thing in the best ways.

Andrew Huberman：情感支持和压力是真实存在的最好的方式。

Not to focus on the bad aspects of the injury, because there are plenty.

不要把注意力集中在伤害的不好的方面，因为有很多。

Yeah.

是的。

I recall you and I communicated not long after, let's call it what it was, the first break, and I remember you said to me over text, you said, how long before I'm skateboarding again?

我记得你和我沟通不久之后，就这么说吧，第一次休息，我记得你通过短信对我说，你说，我多久才能再次滑板？

And I said, skateboarding as in pushing or skateboarding as in what you do on vert?

我说，滑板就像推动一样，还是滑板就像你在垂直方向上所做的那样？

And you said, what I do on vert.

你说，我在 vert.x 上做什么？

And I said, well, it seems you are doing a lot of things.

我说，好吧，看来你做了很多事情。

You were doing deliberate cold, deliberate heat, pressure.

你故意冷、热、压力。

You did a number of things.

你做了很多事情。

I mean, you're not haphazard about your career and your body and your health, and we'll get into that a little bit later, some of the things that you've enjoyed as beneficial for you.

我的意思是，你对你的职业、你的身体和你的健康并不是随意的，我们稍后会讨论一些你喜欢的对你有益的事情。

But you said, I'm calling it at two months.

但你说，我会在两个月后打电话。

And I said, okay, I believe it.

我说，好吧，我相信。

And then I recall that was it the Oscars or some other award event where you came out about a week later, you came out there, you walked out, this broken femur, and you weren't using any support to walk out.

然后我记得那是奥斯卡颁奖典礼或其他颁奖活动，大约一周后，你出来了，你走出去，股骨骨折了，你没有使用任何支撑来走出去。

So you clearly ditched whatever support you might have been using, which I think is awesome, by the way.

所以你显然放弃了你可能一直在使用的任何支持，顺便说一句，我认为这很棒。

And then pretty soon I was seeing videos of you dropping in.

然后很快我就看到了你进来的视频。

I'm seeing videos of you doing kick turns below coping.

我看到你在牙冠下方做踢腿转身的视频。

I'm seeing videos of you at coping.

我正在看你应对的视频。

And we have a friend in common, the skateboard, and generally photographer Mike Blabac.

我们有一个共同的朋友，滑板和摄影师 Mike Blabac。

And I remember texting Mike, I was like, Tony's back already.

我记得给迈克发短信，我当时想，托尼已经回来了。

This is superhuman rates of healing, and I think it is superhuman rates of healing.

这是超人的治愈速度，我认为这是超人的治愈速度。

Then you mentioned that you damaged, broke, broke the femur again.

然后你提到你的股骨再次受损、骨折、骨折。

So did you allow more rest the second time?

那么第二次你有更多的休息时间吗？

What was driving you to get back in it so quickly?

是什么促使您如此迅速地重新投入其中？

Tony Hawk: The first go around, I just didn't listen to any of the professional advice because I thought, well, I've come this far and I've always been able to push through broken pelvis, broken elbow, knee surgeries.

托尼·霍克：第一次来时，我只是没有听任何专业建议，因为我想，好吧，我已经走了这么远，我总是能够完成骨盆骨折、肘部骨折、膝盖手术。

And the timeline is always very shortened for me because I just get back out there and I get the healing started.

对我来说，时间总是很短，因为我只要回到那里，我就开始康复。

But I also am comfortable with what people think is extremely risky.

但我也对人们认为风险极高的事情感到满意。

But in this instance, I wanted to get back out there right away.

但在这种情况下，我想立即回到那里。

And not long after the Academy Awards, I was actually walking with a cane at that time, and I ditched the cane just to walk out on stage to present the award.

奥斯卡颁奖典礼结束后不久，我当时实际上是拄着拐杖走路的，我扔掉拐杖只是为了走上舞台颁奖。

So that was my big coming out moment, but it was kind of forced.

所以那是我出柜的重要时刻，但这有点被迫。

And as soon as I walked off the stage, I grabbed my cane and I was hobbling in the backstage.

当我走下舞台时，我抓起手杖，一瘸一拐地走在后台。

But I was skating kind of a miniramp, and I was already struggling because I couldn't put my weight on my front foot because my bone still had not connected to itself.

但我在滑冰时有点像迷你坡道，而且我已经很挣扎了，因为我无法将重量放在前脚上，因为我的骨头还没有连接到自身。

So there's a gap in the bone, but there's a nail, what they call a nail or big piece of metal that's holding them in place.

所以骨头上有一个缺口，但有一个钉子，他们称之为钉子或大块金属，将它们固定在适当的位置。

But I didn't realize how careful I needed to be with that because it was so precarious.

但我没有意识到我需要多么小心，因为它是如此不稳定。

And I decided, I'm going to drop in on the miniramp.

我决定，我要顺路去小坡道。

I think I'm ready.

我想我已经准备好了。

And it wasn't the drop in on the miniramp, it was me getting to the top of the miniramp and stepping off my board.

这不是在迷你坡道上降落，而是我到达迷你坡道的顶部并从滑板上走下来。

Andrew Huberman: It's always that kind of stuff.

Andrew Huberman：总是这样的事情。

Tony Hawk: But I just stepped off my board like I would do any other day.

托尼·霍克：但我就像其他日子一样离开了董事会。

But I didn't think I led with my front foot and I felt the bone move in that moment.

但我不认为我是用前脚领先的，那一刻我感觉到骨头在移动。

I felt it either twist or get out of place.

我感觉它要么扭曲，要么不合适。

And I was in total denial for months because I just said, oh, it just hurts now.

几个月来我完全否认，因为我只是说，哦，现在很痛。

I got a minor setback and then I finally, eight months into my recovery, seven months into my recovery, I was always in pain.

我经历了一次小小的挫折，然后我终于在康复八个月、康复七个月后，我总是处于痛苦之中。

My skating wasn't progressing.

我的滑冰没有进步。

I couldn't get speed, and by all measures, I should be back.

我无法加快速度，但从各方面来看，我应该回来了。

At least I'd be back to a level that I feel good about.

至少我会回到我感觉良好的水平。

And I went and got X-rays, and they said, your bone never connected.

我去拍了 X 光片，他们说，你的骨头从未连接过。

You have a nonunion fracture.

您的骨折不愈合。

And every time I skated, so my bone's like this.

每次我滑冰的时候，我的骨头都是这样的。

Every time I skated, I was pushing it further away.

每次我滑冰时，我都把它推得更远。

And so my bone was like this on the last X-ray, and that was the hard truth.

所以我的骨头在最后一次 X 光检查中是这样的，这是残酷的事实。

Andrew Huberman: So for those listening, just laterally displaced, think about a pipe that's broken in the middle and just one's offset to the other.

Andrew Huberman：所以对于那些只是横向移位的听众来说，想象一下中间破裂的管道，并且只是一个偏移到另一个。

Tony Hawk: And as I keep skating, and I could force my skate, like, I kind of learned this hack where I can put 75% of my weight on my back foot and 25% of my front foot and do what I wanted to do, but it wasn't where I thought I'd be, and it just hurt all the time.

托尼·霍克：当我继续滑冰时，我可以强迫我的滑冰，就像，我学会了这个技巧，我可以将 75% 的重量放在后脚上，25% 的前脚上，做我想做的事情，但这不是我想象的地方，而且一直很痛。

I mean, it really was like, that was my trigger because I have a pretty high tolerance to pain, and it was always hurt.

我的意思是，这确实是我的触发因素，因为我对疼痛有很高的耐受力，而且总是受伤。

I would dread going to the airport knowing I had to walk to a gate, so I knew something was wrong there.

我害怕去机场，因为我知道我必须步行到登机口，所以我知道那里出了问题。

I went to a specialist that deals in nonunion fractures, and he had a very pragmatic, factual approach, and it was like, oh, I would do this.

我去找了一位治疗不愈合骨折的专家，他有一种非常务实、务实的方法，就像，哦，我会这样做。

I'm going take to that nail out.

我要把那个钉子去掉。

I'm take the other hardware out and put it together, and you cannot move for two months.

我要把其他硬件拿出来组装起来，两个月之内你不能动。

Andrew Huberman: Did you obey that?

安德鲁·休伯曼：你遵守了吗？

Tony Hawk: I did.

托尼·霍克：我做到了。

Andrew Huberman: Really?

安德鲁·休伯曼：真的吗？

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

I was not going to risk that again.

我不会再冒这样的风险了。

Andrew Huberman: And do you prioritize things like sleep, nutrition, just generally.

Andrew Huberman：一般来说，你会优先考虑睡眠、营养等事情吗？

And did you emphasize those things while you were recovering from the injury?

当你从伤病中恢复时，你有强调这些事情吗？

Tony Hawk: Yeah, I was very disciplined in my diet, in my schedule, in my sleep.

托尼·霍克：是的，我在饮食、日程安排和睡眠方面都非常自律。

Surprisingly, I was very busy because I do speaking engagements, and suddenly my speaking engagements were getting booked left and right.

令人惊讶的是，我很忙，因为我有演讲约会，突然之间我的演讲约会就被订满了。

I mean, to the point where I did a tour through Europe last summer of speaking engagements.

我的意思是，去年夏天我在欧洲进行了演讲活动。

So that was a silver lining, I guess, to my idle time.

所以我想，这对我的空闲时间来说是一线希望。

And I leaned into it, I made myself available, and it's good money, and it's fun to interact.

我投入其中，我让自己变得可用，这是很好的钱，而且互动很有趣。

But all through that, of course, in the back of my head, I was like, when can I skate?

当然，在整个过程中，我在心里想，我什么时候可以滑冰？

When can I skate?

我什么时候可以滑冰？

And then when I finally started skating, it was night and day with my leg.

当我终于开始滑冰时，我的腿日夜不停地工作。

I felt like I could lean forward.

我感觉我可以向前倾。

Suddenly, I was learning tricks every session, relearning tricks.

突然之间，我每次都在学习技巧，重新学习技巧。

So I'm just lucky that I got to live in this time of modern medicine.

所以我很幸运能够生活在现代医学的这个时代。

Andrew Huberman: Was that two months?

安德鲁·休伯曼：那是两个月吗？

The longest you've ever gone without skateboarding vert?

你最长没有玩过滑板吗？

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Without skating at all.

根本不用滑冰。

Andrew Huberman: Not even just pushing around.

Andrew Huberman：甚至不只是四处推动。

Tony Hawk: No.

托尼·霍克：不。

Andrew Huberman: Good for you for obeying doctor's orders.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：你遵守医生的医嘱对你有好处。

Tony Hawk: Finally.

托尼·霍克：终于。

Andrew Huberman: And also good for you for deciding that your rate of recovery is going to be whatever it is for you.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：这对你来说也有好处，因为你决定你的康复率将是适合你的。

Because I feel like I'm hearing both things.

因为我觉得我听到了这两件事。

On the one hand, you listen to the medical professionals.

一方面，您听取医疗专业人士的意见。

On the other hand, I'm not hearing, oh, I looked at the average rate of recovery from this kind of fracture, this and that.

另一方面，我没有听到，哦，我查看了这种骨折的平均恢复率，这个那个。

It's as if you decided two things at once, that there are experts who have something to offer me here, I'll follow their advice.

就好像你同时决定了两件事，这里有专家可以向我提供一些东西，我会听从他们的建议。

And yet I'm the expert at myself here.

但我自己就是这方面的专家。

I'm putting myself in your first person.

我把自己置于你的第一人称中。

Tony's the expert in Tony.

托尼是托尼方面的专家。

And I'm going to make sure that I come back 100% or better.

我会确保我以 100% 或更好的状态回来。

Tony Hawk: Yeah, not better.

托尼·霍克：是的，没有更好。

And I have come to terms with that because I know that I'm not going to be pushing myself the way that I did before I got hurt anymore.

我已经接受了这一点，因为我知道我不会再像受伤之前那样强迫自己了。

There are some tricks now that are way more difficult just because whatever, something changed in my body and for instance, I can't grab slob, I can't do it consistently.

现在有一些技巧变得更加困难，只是因为无论如何，我的身体发生了一些变化，例如，我无法抓住懒惰的东西，我无法始终如一地做到这一点。

That used to be my go-to grab, could do that anytime.

这曾经是我的首选，随时都可以做到。

Over 60-foot gaps, whatever.

无论如何，超过 60 英尺的间隙。

I knew where my board was, I knew that was going to hold on to my feet.

我知道我的滑板在哪里，我知道它会固定住我的脚。

And half the time I try to grab that way now I don't reach it or I grab my foot instead and I can't make the adjustment to fix it.

有一半的时间我试图以这种方式抓住，但现在我够不到它，或者我抓住了我的脚，但我无法做出调整来修复它。

And so I've just sort of come to terms with, well, that's not the go-to grab anymore.

所以我已经接受了，嗯，这不再是首选了。

And that's okay.

没关系。

I had a good run.

我跑得很好。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

Your kit is pretty vast, so there's a lot of other things to reach, too, aside from the 540, which, by the way, congratulations.

你的套件相当庞大，所以除了 540 之外，还有很多其他东西需要接触，顺便说一句，恭喜你。

Tony Hawk: Thank you.

托尼·霍克：谢谢。

Andrew Huberman: Not only is it a 540, but done at least head high.

Andrew Huberman：它不仅是 540，而且至少做得很高。

I've seen it with my own eyes and under really great circumstances.

我亲眼目睹了这一切，而且是在非常好的情况下发生的。

Your wife there, just the two of you, and the trick that broke the femur in the first place.

你的妻子在那里，只有你们两个，还有最初弄断股骨的把戏。

So congratulations on that.

所以恭喜你。

Tony Hawk: Thank you.

托尼·霍克：谢谢。

Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, InsideTracker.

Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 InsideTracker。

InsideTracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and help you meet your health goals.

InsideTracker 是一个个性化营养平台，可分析您的血液和 DNA 数据，帮助您更好地了解您的身体并帮助您实现健康目标。

I'm a big believer in getting regular blood work done for the simple reason that many of the factors that impact your immediate and long-term health can only be analyzed from a quality blood test.

我坚信定期进行血液检查，原因很简单，影响您当前和长期健康的许多因素只能通过高质量的血液测试来分析。

However, with a lot of blood tests out there, you get information back about blood lipids, about hormones and so on, but you don't know what to do with that information.

然而，通过大量的血液测试，您可以获得有关血脂、激素等的信息，但您不知道如何处理这些信息。

With InsideTracker, they have a personalized platform that makes it very easy to understand your data, that is, to understand what those lipids, what those hormone levels, etc., mean, and behavioral, supplement, nutrition and other protocols to adjust those numbers to bring them into the ranges that are ideal for your immediate and long-term health.

借助 InsideTracker，他们拥有一个个性化平台，可以轻松了解您的数据，即了解这些血脂、激素水平等的含义，并通过行为、补充剂、营养和其他协议来调整这些数字，使其达到适合您近期和长期健康的理想范围。

InsideTracker's ultimate plan now includes measures of both Apo B and of insulin, which are key indicators of cardiovascular health and energy regulation.

InsideTracker 的最终计划现在包括 Apo B 和胰岛素的测量，它们是心血管健康和能量调节的关键指标。

If you'd like to try InsideTracker, you can visit insidetracker.com/huberman to get 20% off any of InsideTracker's plans.

如果您想尝试 InsideTracker，可以访问 insidetracker.com/huberman，享受任何 InsideTracker 计划 20% 的折扣。

Again, that's insidetracker.com/huberman to get 20% off.

同样，在 insidetracker.com/huberman 上可以获得 20% 的折扣。

Are there other things that you're thinking?

你还有其他的想法吗？

Can't wait to get back to that.

迫不及待地想回到那个。

Let's set aside slob airs for now.

我们暂时抛开懒惰的架子吧。

Tony Hawk: Yeah, I want to get my handplants back the way I used to do them.

托尼·霍克：是的，我想让我的手植物恢复到以前的样子。

I have yet ...

我还...

Yeah, it's so in vert, like one-handed handstand.

是的，它是垂直的，就像单手倒立一样。

I can do them now, but I've.

我现在可以做到，但我已经做到了。

Andrew Huberman: Seen you do them recently.

Andrew Huberman：最近看到你这样做了。

Tony Hawk: Yeah, but they used to be my signature was a tuck knee invert and flopped all the way back, and I can't get a hold of my board to pull it all the way back like I used to.

托尼·霍克：是的，但我的标志性动作是膝内翻，然后一直向后翻，而我无法像以前那样抓住我的冲浪板将其向后拉。

If I can get that, I'll feel like that's it.

如果我能得到它，我会觉得就这样了。

That was the last milestone.

这是最后一个里程碑。

Andrew Huberman: I'm not here to diagnose and treat these specific skateboard trick-isms, but between what you said about the slob air and what you're saying about this, it seems like there's something about getting your front hand around and pulling it back behind you.

Andrew Huberman：我不是来诊断和治疗这些特定的滑板技巧的，但是在你所说的邋遢空气和你所说的这之间，似乎有一些关于让你的前手转过来并将其拉回身后的东西。

So maybe this is like the way that the femur is lining up with your pelvis and maybe some off-ramp something-or-other physical therapy could do it.

所以也许这就像股骨与骨盆对齐的方式，也许一些坡道或其他物理疗法可以做到这一点。

Tony Hawk: I'm actually working with at best core, he is a doctor of physical therapy and he has helped me immensely through my recovery.

托尼·霍克：实际上，我正在与最好的核心一起工作，他是一位物理治疗医生，他在我的康复过程中为我提供了巨大帮助。

And when I'm frustrated with this motion or that's the same grab actually, as the McTwist, he worked on me before it and was just contorting my body and my leg into these positions that I don't really even get to when I'm skating, just to prepare me for that.

当我对这个动作感到沮丧时，或者实际上与 McTwist 一样的抓握动作，他在这之前对我进行了训练，只是将我的身体和腿扭曲到这些位置，而我在滑冰时甚至没有达到这些位置，只是为了让我做好准备。

And he did, but that's what it took.

他做到了，但这就是所需要的。

Andrew Huberman: It's interesting that we're talking about skateboarding and we're also talking about physical therapists.

Andrew Huberman：有趣的是，我们正在谈论滑板，我们也在谈论物理治疗师。

We're talking about nutrition, we're talking about sleep.

我们正在谈论营养，我们正在谈论睡眠。

Tony Hawk: So growing up, none of that, never imagined any.

托尼·霍克：所以在成长过程中，这些都没有，也没有想象过。

Andrew Huberman: And I'm chuckling because growing up in skateboarding early on, for me, not quite as early as you, but pretty early, twelve and got out of it and back.

Andrew Huberman：我笑了，因为我很早就开始玩滑板了，对我来说，虽然不像你那么早，但也很早，十二岁就摆脱了滑板，然后又回来了。

And yes, I can still do a thing or two here and there, but that's not the point.

是的，我仍然可以到处做一两件事，但这不是重点。

The point is that the nutrition consisted largely of fast food or whatever was around.

关键是营养主要由快餐或周围的任何东西组成。

Cigarettes and beer were sort of the energy drinks and supplements of the times.

香烟和啤酒是当时的能量饮料和补充剂。

This has fortunately changed, but there was essentially no health-promoting tools or aspects to it at all.

幸运的是，这种情况已经改变，但基本上没有任何促进健康的工具或方面。

But that was back then.

但那是那时的事了。

But then over time, it seems it's evolved.

但随着时间的推移，它似乎已经进化了。

Like now.

就像现在一样。

I saw a couple of posts from Stevie Williams, like, he's in the gym.

我看到史蒂夫·威廉姆斯的几篇帖子，比如他在健身房。

Tony Hawk: Sure.

托尼·霍克：当然。

Andrew Huberman: I think I saw Danny Way early on working with Paul Chek and doing some balance work, neck work, because he had broken his neck, surfing and things of that sort.

Andrew Huberman：我想我很早就看到 Danny Way 和 Paul Chek 一起工作，做了一些平衡训练、颈部训练，因为他在冲浪和诸如此类的事情上摔断了脖子。

So there seems to have been a big shift over the last 15-20 years where skateboarders are taking good care of their bodies, like other athletes, thinking about the resilience of their bodies, and also generally taking better care, like a lot of them opt not to drink and do drugs and all those sorts of things.

因此，在过去的 15-20 年里似乎发生了很大的转变，滑板运动员像其他运动员一样，开始好好照顾自己的身体，考虑自己身体的弹性，并且通常也会更好地照顾自己，就像他们中的许多人选择不喝酒、不吸毒以及诸如此类的事情。

How does it strike you to see the way that skateboarding has evolved towards the option to be much healthier and treat it like a serious sport where you're a serious athlete?

看到滑板运动已经朝着更加健康的方向发展，并且将其视为一项严肃的运动（而您是一名认真的运动员），您有何感想？

A word that even 15 years ago, 20 years ago, if you called a skateboarder an athlete, some people might even be offended by, people in skateboarding, right?

这个词即使在15年前、20年前，如果你称滑板手为运动员，有些人甚至可能会被冒犯，滑板界的人，对吧？

Tony Hawk: Absolutely.

托尼·霍克：当然。

Yeah.

是的。

Well, to answer your question, in the early days, that was part of the scene and the culture, just because it was the antithesis to organized team sports and mainstream culture.

好吧，回答你的问题，在早期，这是场景和文化的一部分，只是因为它是有组织的团队运动和主流文化的对立面。

And so it was just like, yeah, this is what we do.

所以就像，是的，这就是我们所做的。

Fuck it, who cares?

去他妈的，谁在乎呢？

We drank and we'd skate and everyone ...

我们喝酒，我们会滑冰，每个人......

It was Wild West, right?

那是狂野西部，对吧？

But as I never fell into that deeply, because I saw how it affected people's performances and the skating itself was paramount to me.

但我从来没有陷得那么深，因为我看到它如何影响人们的表现，而滑冰本身对我来说至关重要。

That is what I wanted to focus on, that's what I wanted to be good at.

这就是我想要专注的事情，这就是我想要擅长的事情。

And I saw people partying and partying their skills away.

我看到人们在聚会上尽情发挥他们的技能。

So I had at least that forethought.

所以我至少有这样的先见之明。

And then as skating got more established, popular, more of a career option, then people started taking it more seriously, especially competitors.

然后，随着滑冰变得更加成熟、流行，更多地成为一种职业选择，人们开始更加认真地对待它，尤其是竞争对手。

But there's such a wide swath of what skateboarding is, and it's a big tent.

但滑板运动的范围非常广泛，而且它是一个大帐篷。

So to say that it's more organized.

可以说它更有组织性。

Yes, it's more organized over here.

是的，这里更有组织性。

There's still all these skaters over here partying, hopping fences, don't care about contests, don't want sponsors.

这里仍然有所有这些滑冰者参加派对，跳过栅栏，不关心比赛，不需要赞助商。

Andrew Huberman: Well like GX1000.

Andrew Huberman：就像 GX1000 一样。

Like those kids that bomb hills in San Francisco.

就像那些在旧金山轰炸山丘的孩子一样。

Tony Hawk: But that's what I love about it, is the diversity of it all.

托尼·霍克：但这就是我喜欢它的原因，就是它的多样性。

And we're all part of this scene.

我们都是这个场景的一部分。

So I was a competitor.

所以我是一个竞争对手。

That was my path to success.

这就是我的成功之路。

And so I appreciate that people take it more seriously now and that they do have trainer, they have resources.

所以我很感激人们现在更加认真地对待它，他们确实有培训师，他们有资源。

I mean, they have sponsors that will pay for this kind of stuff.

我的意思是，他们有赞助商愿意支付此类费用。

There was no such thing at our biggest skate contest.

我们最大的滑冰比赛中没有这样的事情。

We were all staying at Stacy Peralta's parents house the night before, and he would take us out to get spaghetti because he thought carbohydrates was going to give us energy the next day.

前一天晚上我们都住在史黛西·佩拉尔塔父母家，他会带我们出去吃意大利面，因为他认为碳水化合物会给我们第二天提供能量。

That was the extent of training in 1983, right?

这就是1983年的训练程度吧？

But nowadays we're treated like high elite athletes because they are like, if you really look at people that are at the top of their field, people like Nyjah Huston, you know what I mean?

但现在我们被当作高级运动员对待，因为他们就像，如果你真正看看那些处于各自领域的顶尖人物，像尼贾·休斯顿这样的人，你知道我的意思吗？

The dude is a machine.

这家伙是一台机器。

He is one of the most precise skaters that we've ever seen, or precise athletes this side of Nadia Comăneci.

他是我们见过的最精确的滑冰运动员之一，或者说是纳迪亚·科默内奇这一边最精确的运动员。

Yes, I'm aging myself, but what I'm saying is this takes hardcore dedication, precision athleticism and devotion.

是的，我自己正在变老，但我想说的是，这需要坚定的奉献精神、精确的运动能力和奉献精神。

And so now they have the resources to back that up and to keep it going longer.

因此，现在他们有资源来支持这一计划并使其持续更长时间。

I mean, yeah.

我的意思是，是的。

Would I be able to do this now, especially after getting hurt, without the help of a doctor of physical training?

如果没有体能训练医生的帮助，我现在能做到这一点吗？尤其是在受伤之后？

Probably not.

可能不会。

I'd do it on some level, but I wouldn't get to where I am now.

我会在某种程度上做到这一点，但我不会达到现在的水平。

And so, hey, I think it's awesome.

所以，嘿，我认为这太棒了。

I never wanted to covet skateboarding as this thing that no one else can.

我从来没想过要觊觎滑板这件事，因为这是别人做不到的。

Like a gatekeeper to it, no one else can touch it.

就像它的看门人一样，任何人都无法触及它。

I always thought there was something of skateboarding that was magical and that was good for mental health, and that required such passion.

我一直认为滑板有一些神奇的东西，对心理健康有益，而且需要这样的热情。

And I never understood why it didn't get bigger through those lean years.

我一直不明白为什么它在那些不景气的岁月里没有变得更大。

I was always like, kids.

我总是这样，孩子们。

This speaks to kids.

这是对孩子们说的。

It's daredevil and it's active and it's exciting, and you can do it as a group, but you can do it your own way.

这是大胆的、活跃的、令人兴奋的，你可以作为一个团队来做，但你也可以用自己的方式来做。

And I don't know, all those things.

我不知道，所有这些事情。

It took a long time for everyone else to figure it out.

其他人花了很长时间才弄清楚。

They definitely figured it out.

他们肯定想通了。

I mean, nowadays, skaters are the cool kids in school.

我的意思是，如今，滑冰运动员是学校里最酷的孩子。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, it's in the Olympics.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，这是在奥运会上。

There was always discussion.

总是有讨论。

Would it be.

会不会是。

It was an exhibition sport in the Olympics at one point?

它曾经是奥运会的一项表演运动？

Tony Hawk: No.

托尼·霍克：不。

Andrew Huberman: Oh, I thought it was.

安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，我想是的。

Maybe it had a run at potentially being an exhibition.

也许它有可能成为一场展览。

Tony Hawk: There was talk of that.

托尼·霍克：有过这样的讨论。

Andrew Huberman: Got it.

安德鲁·休伯曼：明白了。

Tony Hawk: But it never did.

托尼·霍克：但从来没有。

At some point, especially in the late '90s, early 2000s, skating was getting appreciated and kind of reached that threshold of, is it mainstream?

在某些时候，特别是在 90 年代末、2000 年代初，滑冰越来越受到重视，并达到了这样的门槛：它是主流吗？

Well, it's on McDonald's commercials, so I guess that's pretty mainstream.

嗯，这是麦当劳的广告，所以我想这是相当主流的。

And so we already had come of age, and it was like, we don't need the Olympics.

所以我们已经成年了，我们不需要奥运会。

We're already more popular than a lot of Olympic sports, right?

我们已经比很多奥林匹克运动项目更受欢迎了，对吧？

So why do we need their validation?

那么为什么我们需要他们的验证呢？

And then at some point, it became like the power dynamic shifted and it was like, oh, they need our cool factor.

然后在某个时刻，权力动态发生了变化，就像，哦，他们需要我们的酷元素。

We don't need their validation.

我们不需要他们的验证。

And it was like, yeah, okay, you guys want it?

就像，是的，好吧，你们想要它吗？

Sure, go ahead.

当然，继续吧。

Hold the events, hold the qualifiers.

举办赛事，举办预选赛。

We'll participate, but we don't need this.

我们会参与，但我们不需要这个。

Andrew Huberman: Well, you've been an amazing ambassador for the sport that's driven so much of that wider acceptance and progression and invitation into different domains.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：嗯，你是这项运动的出色大使，推动了这项运动更广泛的接受、进步和邀请进入不同的领域。

One of the things that I definitely want to talk about is the video game, because I think that the video game changed a lot of things for the general public in terms of their perception of skateboarding.

我绝对想谈论的一件事是电子游戏，因为我认为电子游戏改变了公众对滑板的看法。

I mean, what it allowed, of course, is this is obvious, but it allowed kids that weren't going to bang up their shins or walk in with a broken wrist or all skinned up to do incredible tricks, but in silico, on a screen, right.

我的意思是，它所允许的，当然，这是显而易见的，但它允许那些不会撞到小腿、手腕骨折或赤身裸体走进去的孩子们可以做出令人难以置信的特技，但在电脑上，在屏幕上，对吧。

And to pretend that they are the pro skateboarder, that's essentially what video games are about.

假装自己是职业滑板手，这就是电子游戏的本质。

And yet, when you can see something, just like you can imagine it in a dream or while you're falling asleep and you can see something and hear in air quotes, do something in a video game, it also is going to inspire a number of kids to go outside and grab a real skateboard and try that, or try something like that.

然而，当你可以看到某些东西时，就像你在梦中或入睡时想象的那样，你可以看到某些东西并听到空气中的引言，在电子游戏中做一些事情，它也会激励许多孩子走到外面，抓起一个真正的滑板并尝试一下，或者尝试类似的东西。

So clearly, the video game was a catalyst for what I consider now the wide acceptance of skateboarding as a sport in all its various forms.

很明显，电子游戏是我现在认为滑板作为一项各种形式的运动被广泛接受的催化剂。

Could you just talk for a little bit about the genesis of the video game?

您能简单谈谈电子游戏的起源吗？

Were you into video games prior to the video game?

在玩电子游戏之前您就喜欢电子游戏吗？

Were you into technology generally and what sort of motivated the interest in the video game?

您总体上对技术感兴趣吗？是什么激发了您对视频游戏的兴趣？

Because it certainly has changed the face of actual skateboarding and the perception of skateboarding.

因为它确实改变了实际滑板运动的面貌和人们对滑板运动的看法。

Tony Hawk: Well, I've been into video games since the get-go.

托尼·霍克：嗯，我从一开始就沉迷于电子游戏。

I mean, I was a kid playing Pong, Pacman, Missile Command, Q*bert, you name it, and then getting the home systems, Intellivision, Super NES, Commodore 64.

我的意思是，我小时候玩 Pong、Pacman、Missile Command、Q*bert，凡是你能想到的，然后又买了家用系统、Intellivision、Super NES、Commodore 64。

Sega.

世嘉。

Sega, yeah.

世嘉，是的。

And I always loved technology.

我一直热爱科技。

So when I finally started making money in the '80s, my first kind of big purchase in terms of electronics was Commodore Amiga, which was considered one of the highest end home computers alongside Mac, but more graphic oriented and more game oriented.

因此，当我最终在 80 年代开始赚钱时，我在电子产品方面的第一笔大宗购买是 Commodore Amiga，它被认为是与 Mac 齐名的最高端家用电脑之一，但更注重图形和游戏。

And so I was always into that idea that you could do this kind of stuff at home, not just in arcades.

所以我一直认为你可以在家里做这种事情，而不仅仅是在游乐场。

And then I got a call from a PC programmer that wanted to pitch a skate game and had a crude engine of a skater that would cruise around, go ride in bowls and stuff like that.

然后我接到了一位 PC 程序员的电话，他想要推出一款滑板游戏，并拥有一个粗糙的滑板引擎，可以四处游走，在碗里骑行等等。

And it was all keyboard controlled.

这一切都是键盘控制的。

It was clunky, but it was something.

它很笨重，但它很重要。

And the last thing that we had as skating was 720 in the arcade or Skate or Die!

我们滑冰的最后一件事是街机里的 720 或“Skate or Die”！

for home systems for Commodore 64.

适用于 Commodore 64 的家庭系统。

That was like the last thing that had happened for skateboarding in video games.

这就像电子游戏中滑板发生的最后一件事。

And so I went with him.

于是我就和他一起去了。

I was excited to get, like, I got to, we got to go to Nintendo and pitch it.

我很高兴能够，就像，我必须，我们必须去任天堂并推销它。

We went to Midway, we went to all these different console and software manufacturers, and we're just told that this is a bad idea.

我们去了中途岛，我们去了所有这些不同的控制台和软件制造商，我们只是被告知这是一个坏主意。

Skateboarding is not popular.

滑板运动并不流行。

Home video games are barely a thing.

家庭视频游戏几乎不值一提。

Why would anyone want to buy a video game about skateboarding?

为什么有人想购买有关滑板的视频游戏？

Someone said those exact words to me at Midway, and so he got frustrated and he needed to find a job, and I was just kind of free floating.

有人在中途岛对我说了这些话，所以他很沮丧，他需要找一份工作，而我只是自由浮动。

So I said, okay.

所以我说，好吧。

He goes, well, I'm not going to do this, but I feel like you've established yourself, at least in the video game world industry, that you're interested in doing something.

他说，好吧，我不会这样做，但我觉得你已经确立了自己的立场，至少在视频游戏行业，你对做某事感兴趣。

So maybe if someone does something, they'll call you.

所以也许如果有人做了某事，他们就会给你打电话。

And I was like, yeah, right.

我当时想，是的，对。

Sure enough, like a year later, Activision called me and they said, hey, we heard you want to do a video game.

果然，大约一年后，动视给我打电话，他们说，嘿，我们听说你想做一款视频游戏。

I said, well, yes, I would love to work on a video game.

我说，嗯，是的，我很想从事电子游戏的工作。

I'm not a programmer or anything.

我不是程序员什么的。

They said, we have something we're working on and we'd like to show it to you.

他们说，我们正在研究一些东西，我们想向您展示。

And so I went up to Activision.

于是我就去了动视公司。

They were working on a skate game, but it was based on an engine of a game that was already released called Apocalypse, starring Bruce Willis.

他们当时正在开发一款滑板游戏，但它是基于已经发布的由布鲁斯·威利斯主演的名为《Apocalypse》的游戏引擎。

So the first version of my game was Bruce Willis on a skateboard with a gun strapped to his back in a desert wasteland doing kick flips.

所以我的游戏的第一个版本是布鲁斯·威利斯背着枪在滑板上在沙漠荒地上做踢腿空翻。

And it was awesome.

太棒了。

It was truly like, I picked it up and I got past that visual, and then I started playing it, and it was intuitive.

真的就像，我拿起它，我就超越了视觉效果，然后我开始玩它，它很直观。

The motion felt right, the engine was right.

动作感觉正确，引擎也正确。

And I was like, this is the baseline of something special.

我当时想，这是一些特殊事物的基线。

I didn't think it was going to be some big hit.

我没想到它会引起很大的轰动。

I just thought, this is going to be appreciated by skateboarders.

我只是想，这会受到滑板爱好者的赞赏。

And that was my goal the entire development process, which was about a year and a half, after I signed on through that year and a half, we were going back and forth.

这就是我整个开发过程的目标，大约一年半，在我签约后的一年半里，我们来来回回。

They would FedEx me builds on CDs, I had a modified PlayStation.

他们会用联邦快递给我制作 CD，我有一个修改过的 PlayStation。

I would play it, make notes, and I thought, man, skaters are going to dig this.

我会玩它，做笔记，我想，伙计，滑冰者们会喜欢这个的。

And that was it.

就是这样。

And skating wasn't even that popular.

滑冰甚至还没有那么流行。

It was starting to get some traction.

它开始受到一些关注。

Andrew Huberman: What year was this again?

安德鲁·休伯曼：今年又是哪一年？

Tony Hawk: Like '98.

托尼·霍克：就像 98 年那样。

So it was like X Games were starting to come into the fold.

所以 X Games 似乎开始进入市场。

People were taking note of what skateboarding had become at that point.

人们开始关注滑板运动在那时的发展。

And then I thought, this is going to be cool.

然后我想，这会很酷。

Skaters are going to like it.

滑冰者一定会喜欢它。

And then not long before the release, they called me and they said, hey, we want to offer you a buyout of future royalties for this game because I think people are going to like it.

然后在发布前不久，他们打电话给我说，嘿，我们想为你提供这款游戏未来版税的买断，因为我认为人们会喜欢它。

And I was like, what does that mean?

我当时想，这是什么意思？

They go, we'll give you a half a million dollars.

他们走了，我们给你五十万美元。

And then you don't get royalties going forward, but you get that money up front.

然后你就不会再获得版税，但你会预先得到这笔钱。

And at that time in my life, to hear someone say half a million dollars seriously sounded like a half a billion dollars.

在我生命中的那个时候，听到有人认真地说五十万美元听起来就像五亿美元。

No one had ever talked about numbers that big to me.

从来没有人谈论过对我来说这么大的数字。

Andrew Huberman: Well, also, '98 was a little bit of a quiet time for vert skateboarding, too, right?

Andrew Huberman：嗯，98 年对于垂直滑板来说也是一段安静的时光，对吧？

Tony Hawk: Sure.

托尼·霍克：当然。

Yeah.

是的。

It was all skateboarding in general.

总体而言，这都是滑板运动。

Luckily, vert skating still was a thing because of inline skating.

幸运的是，由于直排轮滑，垂直滑冰仍然很受欢迎。

Because inline skating was huge, right?

因为直排轮滑规模很大，对吗？

Late '90s, and they were all vert.

90 年代末，他们都是垂直的。

And so we, as skaters, got to sort of ride those coattails because it was like, hey, there are vert ramps, because everyone's rollerblading.

因此，作为滑冰运动员，我们必须搭上这些顺风车，因为就像，嘿，有垂直坡道，因为每个人都在滑旱冰。

Andrew Huberman: I forgot about that.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我忘了这一点。

Tony Hawk: That did.

托尼·霍克：确实如此。

And I have.

我有。

Honestly, I was the special guest at a couple of inline rollerblade shows where it was like, this is team Rollerblade Live, and special guest Tony Hawk, the skateboarder.

老实说，我是几场直排轮滑鞋表演的特邀嘉宾，感觉这是 Rollerblade Live 团队，还有特邀嘉宾托尼·霍克，滑板手。

And I was right.

我是对的。

All right.

好的。

Dropping in.

掉进去。

But it paid the bills.

但它支付了账单。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

Tony Hawk: So to answer, from what you're saying, vert skating was a thing, at least established in the X Games, which was something and enough for us to make a living.

托尼·霍克：所以回答一下，从你的说法来看，垂直滑冰是一件事，至少是在 X Games 中确立的，这足以让我们谋生。

So when they offered me this money, I actually was in a pretty good place in terms of, I don't know, my options and my trajectory.

因此，当他们向我提供这笔钱时，我不知道，就我的选择和轨迹而言，我实际上处于一个非常好的位置。

And I felt like.

我觉得。

And I had just bought a new home, and I thought, I'm going to take a chance and just see what happens.

我刚刚买了一套新房，我想，我要冒险一下，看看会发生什么。

And that was the best financial decision I ever made.

这是我做过的最好的财务决定。

Andrew Huberman: Took the equity.

安德鲁·休伯曼：获得了股权。

Tony Hawk: Yeah, I just let it ride.

托尼·霍克：是的，我只是顺其自然。

I was like, no, I want to see what happens with this.

我当时想，不，我想看看会发生什么。

And as soon as the game was released, it was getting stellar reviews.

而且游戏一经发布，就获得了好评。

And then I remember the very next week after it was released, Neversoft saying, okay, we're working on number two.

然后我记得就在它发布后的下一周，Neversoft 说，好吧，我们正在开发第二个。

What do you want to do?

你想让我做什么？

Like, what do you mean?

比如，你什么意思？

Well, yeah, we're doing a sequel with what?

嗯，是的，我们正在拍什么续集？

Awesome.

惊人的。

And then we end up doing like ten.

然后我们最终做了大约十个。

Andrew Huberman: Amazing.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。

Tony Hawk: Crazy.

托尼·霍克：疯了。

Andrew Huberman: Amazing.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。

I'm thinking about your decision to not take the cash and to see how it would go.

我正在考虑你不拿现金的决定，看看会怎样。

I'm thinking about your decision to buy a car at 16 and, as a consequence, get pulled over because you looked younger.

我在想你 16 岁时决定买一辆车，结果因为你看起来更年轻而被拦了下来。

I'm thinking about the time when, through the graciousness of your parents, who took me in because I had no money to get back up to Northern California and they couldn't get a hold of my mom.

我在想，在你父母的仁慈之下，他们收留了我，因为我没有钱回到北加州，而且他们也联系不到我妈妈。

They took me to your home.

他们带我去你家。

But then they took me to where you were living the next day, which was in Fallbrook.

但第二天他们带我去了你住的地方，在福尔布鲁克。

You don't remember this, but I do.

你不记得了，但我记得。

And I know you've heard this story before, so forgive me, because most people listening haven't.

我知道你以前听过这个故事，所以请原谅我，因为大多数人都没有听过。

But I remember getting driven up to Fallbrook.

但我记得我开车去福尔布鲁克。

You had the ramps in your backyard.

你的后院有坡道。

I walked in, got introduced to you, you were very gracious, said, hello, what's up?

我走进去，被介绍给你，你很客气，说，你好，有什么事吗？

Said, feel free to push around on the ramps.

说着，随意在坡道上推来推去。

It was a spine.

那是一根脊柱。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Two ramps.

安德鲁·休伯曼：两个坡道。

Back to back, folks.

背靠背，伙计们。

Spine.

脊柱。

Sorry, nomenclature.

抱歉，命名法。

I think Ray Underhill was there.

我认为雷·昂德希尔也在场。

Tony Hawk: Yeah, he lived there for a while.

托尼·霍克：是的，他在那里住了一段时间。

Andrew Huberman: And as I recall, you had pretty vast music collection.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：我记得，你有相当丰富的音乐收藏。

And we'll talk about music.

我们会谈论音乐。

But it also seemed there was a couple cars in the driveway and whatnot.

但车道上似乎也有几辆车之类的。

But it's clear to me, based on a number of things and that interaction and what I observed there, that either you had someone in your ear, either your dad or your mom, or both, or maybe it had been Stacy, or maybe it was somebody else who was advising you to make very good financial decisions, like not spend all your money or continue to spend all your money to invest in things.

但根据很多事情、这种互动以及我在那里观察到的情况，我很清楚，要么有人在你耳边，要么是你的爸爸，要么是你的妈妈，或者两者兼而有之，或者可能是史黛西，或者可能是其他人建议你做出非常好的财务决定，比如不要花掉你所有的钱，或者继续花掉你所有的钱来投资。

Or maybe it was just instilled in you at a young age.

或者也许它只是在年轻时灌输给你的。

Who knows?

谁知道？

I'm asking because I think so many people burn their early success.

我这么问是因为我认为很多人都毁掉了他们早期的成功。

What represents a lot of wealth for them early on.

这对于他们早期来说代表着大量的财富。

They burn that, or they start making just bad decisions.

他们会烧毁它，或者开始做出错误的决定。

You explained before why you tended to avoid drugs and alcohol and certainly any severe relationship to drugs or alcohol that would keep you from progressing and skateboarding.

您之前解释过为什么您倾向于避免毒品和酒精，当然，与毒品或酒精的任何严重关系都会阻碍您进步和滑板。

But the ability to make really good decisions as a young, famous athlete is more rare than it is common, even when people have coaches.

但作为一名年轻的著名运动员，能够做出真正正确的决定的情况比常见的情况更为罕见，即使人们有教练。

So I'm curious, where did that shrewdness and that prudence come from?

所以我很好奇，这种精明和谨慎从何而来？

And was Frank, your dad, and maybe Nancy also advising you all along?

弗兰克、你的父亲，也许南希也一直在为你提供建议吗？

Like, hey, think smart, be smart, because clearly you've made some very smart decisions.

就像，嘿，聪明地思考，聪明地做事，因为显然你已经做出了一些非常明智的决定。

Tony Hawk: He was definitely a guide in it.

托尼·霍克：他绝对是其中的向导。

He was the first one who said, you should probably buy real estate.

他是第一个说，你应该购买房地产的人。

I was 17, so I didn't even know that was possible.

当时我17岁，所以我什至不知道这是可能的。

But he co-signed and made it possible.

但他共同签署并使其成为可能。

But then after that, I ended up buying that home that you went to, and it was a four-acre property, and we built these ramps on it.

但在那之后，我最终买了你去的那个房子，那是一处四英亩的土地，我们在上面建了这些坡道。

And that was amazing and definitely helped propel my skating to a different level than I ever imagined.

这真是太棒了，而且确实帮助我将滑冰提升到了一个超乎我想象的水平。

But at some point, that was just a drain, and it was a drain financially, and I was living beyond my means, and my income kept dropping because we're talking about ...

但在某些时候，这只是一种消耗，而且是经济上的消耗，我的生活入不敷出，我的收入不断下降，因为我们正在谈论......

Not long after that was '91, '92, the slowest days of skating.

不久之后就是91、92年，滑冰运动最慢的日子。

And I've got this giant mortgage, and I've got this property and these ramps that I can't afford to upkeep.

我有巨额抵押贷款，还有这处房产和这些坡道，但我无力维护。

I can barely afford my water bill at one point.

我一度几乎付不起水费。

And so what you saw might have seemed stable, but behind the scenes, it was starting to unravel.

所以你所看到的可能看起来很稳定，但在幕后，它开始瓦解。

Andrew Huberman: Birdhouse hadn't been started.

Andrew Huberman：鸟舍尚未启动。

Tony Hawk: Birdhouse was started in '92.

Tony Hawk: Birdhouse 于 92 年开始运营。

And when I started Birdhouse, I took the equity from that house to start it, because I burned through my savings from trying to keep this place going.

当我创办 Birdhouse 时，我拿走了那所房子的股权来创办它，因为我为了维持这个地方而耗尽了我的积蓄。

So I took a second mortgage out on that house, or I took my equity out, started Birdhouse, sold the house for what I had taken out, and then moved to my original place that I had when I was in high school and just pulled back on expenses.

所以我对那所房子进行了第二次抵押贷款，或者我拿出了我的股权，创办了 Birdhouse，以我取出的价格卖掉了房子，然后搬到了我高中时的原来住处，只是节省了开支。

I think that was when I really became shrewd, because I had to.

我想那是我真正变得精明的时候，因为我不得不这样做。

I had a first child.

我有第一个孩子。

I had an income that was very uncertain, very fluctuating, and I was just eating Taco Bell and Top Ramen and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and not spending anything and taking every job, like the most random demo requests, or we want you to be a consultant on this commercial, because I'm 24, I'm too old to be the guy skating, because it has to be youth, right?

我的收入非常不确定，波动很大，我只是吃塔可钟、顶级拉面、花生酱和果冻三明治，不花任何钱，接受每一份工作，就像最随机的演示请求，或者我们希望你成为这个广告的顾问，因为我 24 岁，我太老了，不能成为滑冰的人，因为它必须是年轻人，对吗？

But they're like, well, we want to see what's possible.

但他们说，好吧，我们想看看有什么可能。

So can you come up the day before and show us the ropes?

那么你能在前一天来给我们演示一下吗？

And so I would be the stunt skater that's filling in to show them the angles and stuff, and then they would go hire Chet Thomas as the young kid, and then I would stand around.

所以我会成为一名特技滑冰运动员，向他们展示角度和东西，然后他们会聘请切特·托马斯作为小孩，然后我会站在旁边。

I was getting paid.

我得到了报酬。

I didn't care.

我不在乎。

Andrew Huberman: I think I remember those commercials.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我想我记得那些广告。

It was a cereal commercial, something like that.

这是一个谷物广告，类似的东西。

Tony Hawk: The cereal commercial was Chris Miller, Frosted Flakes, and I was Tony the Tiger.

托尼·霍克：麦片广告是克里斯·米勒的《磨砂薄片》，我是托尼老虎。

Andrew Huberman: So cow guys, you, Chet, throughout the Birdhouse, which is your company, but without telling people, what is it skateboard company.

Andrew Huberman：所以各位牛人，你们，Chet，整个 Birdhouse，这是你们的公司，但没有告诉人们，它是什么滑板公司。

I remember Willy Santos was early on.

我记得威利·桑托斯很早就来了。

I remember he's a super nice kid.

我记得他是一个非常好的孩子。

Used to see him at the contest.

以前在比赛时见过他。

I remember thinking, well, Tony Hawk has his own company for skateboarders.

我记得我当时想，好吧，托尼·霍克有自己的滑板公司。

Tony Hawk: We had a team, Willy was a maestro.

托尼·霍克：我们有一个团队，威利是一位大师。

Jeremy Klein, legendary street pioneer.

Jeremy Klein，传奇街头先锋。

Steve Berra, who's kind of a, we called ATV, but street and vert.

史蒂夫·贝拉（Steve Berra），我们称之为 ATV，但是街头和垂直。

We had Ocean Howell, who was like our number one amateur.

我们有海洋·豪厄尔（Ocean Howell），他就像我们的头号业余选手。

We had Andrew Reynolds, Matt Beach.

我们有安德鲁·雷诺兹、马特·比奇。

We had a team.

我们有一个团队。

It was full on.

它已经满了。

Andrew Huberman: Was it fun to move from rider to also rider, but team manager, owner.

安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：从骑手转变为骑手，同时也是车队经理和老板，这很有趣吗？

Tony Hawk: Was it fun?

托尼·霍克：好玩吗？

It was just necessary.

这只是必要的。

I can't say it was fun.

我不能说这很有趣。

I mean, yeah, it was fun because we were still just kind of reckless and driving, six of us in a van, driving to skate shops across the country and begging them for $300 so that we could get gas and food and a hotel room and get on our way.

我的意思是，是的，这很有趣，因为我们仍然鲁莽地开车，我们六个人开着一辆面包车，开车去全国各地的滑板店，向他们乞讨 300 美元，这样我们就可以得到汽油、食物和酒店房间，然后上路。

I don't know.

我不知道。

But for me, it just felt like a necessity.

但对我来说，这感觉像是一种必需品。

That was what I had to do to make a brand happen, and so I was willing to do it.

这就是我要打造一个品牌所必须要做的，所以我愿意这样做。

But it was exhausting.

但这很累。

Yeah, because I had to be the coach and the tour manager and the skater.

是的，因为我必须担任教练、巡回赛经理和滑冰运动员。

I was putting myself out there on the worst conditions and just rolling my ankle left and right, and it was all street, and it just wasn't my thing.

我把自己置于最糟糕的条件下，只是左右滚动我的脚踝，这都是街头的，这不是我的事。

It was hard, but I loved it.

这很难，但我喜欢它。

I made it happen.

我做到了。

Andrew Huberman: In my mind, I'm thinking you had to be Tony Hawk, the skateboarder, Frank Hawk, the organizer, and Stacy Peralta, because Stacy had been a pro skateboarder.

Andrew Huberman：在我看来，我认为你必须是滑板运动员托尼·霍克（Tony Hawk）、组织者弗兰克·霍克（Frank Hawk）和史黛西·佩拉尔塔（Stacy Peralta），因为史黛西曾经是一名职业滑板运动员。

I still think of him as a skateboarder, even though he's filmmaker.

尽管他是电影制片人，但我仍然认为他是一名滑板手。

Right?

正确的？

A skateboarder.

一个滑板手。

Just like I still think of Spike Jones as a skateboarder, BMXer, filmmaker.

就像我仍然认为斯派克·琼斯是一名滑板运动员、BMX 运动员、电影制片人一样。

Seems like you had to integrate all of those.

看来你必须整合所有这些。

And I mentioned that because I am curious.

我提到这一点是因为我很好奇。

I think a lot of people are probably curious.

我想很多人可能都很好奇。

Are you the type of person, like, sit back in a chair at night and think, like, okay, how am I going to do this?

你是那种晚上坐在椅子上想，好吧，我该怎么做的人？

Are you contemplative, or is it really you just identify what needs to be done this year and over the next three years and set your milestones kind of short.

你是在沉思，还是真的只是确定今年和未来三年需要做什么，并把你的里程碑设定得有点短。

Tony Hawk: Mean now or back then?

托尼·霍克：是指现在还是那时？

Andrew Huberman: Back then.

安德鲁·休伯曼：那时候。

Tony Hawk: Oh, no. Everything was just in the moment.

托尼·霍克：哦，不。一切都只是当下。

We got to get here.

我们必须到达这里。

We got to get to Dallas by tomorrow.

我们明天必须到达达拉斯。

As soon as this demo is over, get in the van.

演示结束后，立即上车。

We're going.

我们走了。

We got to get a hotel room.

我们得找个酒店房间。

It was just stuff like that.

就是这样的事情。

It was very much.

非常多。

But I think I learned to respect punctuality because I travelled with plenty of skaters that were not and didn't care and show up late and was like, dude, and I don't know these guys.

但我想我学会了尊重准时，因为我和很多滑冰者一起旅行，他们不关心也不关心，迟到了，就像，伙计，我不认识这些人。

And then when I was in charge.

然后当我负责的时候。

It was like, we're going to be on time because we have to respect other people's time.

就像，我们要准时，因为我们必须尊重别人的时间。

And we said, we're going to be here at three o'clock, we're going to be here at three o'clock, and that's not easy with a skate crew.

我们说，我们要在三点钟到达这里，我们要在三点钟到达这里，这对于滑冰队来说并不容易。

Andrew Huberman: No. Mike Blabac, who, as you know, is integral to the Huberman Lab podcast.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：不。迈克·布拉巴克，如你所知，他是胡伯曼实验室播客的组成部分。

I talk about that.

我谈论这个。

We've got some other guys that came over from DC as filmers and editors for us, and they're so punctual and they're so on it.

我们还有其他一些从 DC 过来为我们担任电影制片人和剪辑师的人，他们非常准时，而且非常热心。

And I notice you showed up early today, right on time or early by five minutes.

我注意到你今天很早就出现了，准时或早了五分钟。

And that is a distinguishing factor, I think, in any occupation, but especially in skateboarding, where there's this kind of looseness.

我认为，在任何职业中，这都是一个显着因素，尤其是在滑板运动中，那里存在着这种松散性。

Tony Hawk: Sure.

托尼·霍克：当然。

Andrew Huberman: And so if you do show up on time, it really means a lot the professionalism that was instilled in you.

Andrew Huberman：所以如果你确实准时出现，这确实意味着你被灌输了很多专业精神。

It's clear the different places where that's showing up mentioned the shrewdness about the business decisions.

很明显，不同的地方都提到了商业决策的精明性。

I'm curious about another aspect of that, which is maybe a little more cryptic, which is whether or not it was the CD collection that I saw or your mention of the car, your interest in video games.

我很好奇其中的另一个方面，这可能有点神秘，那就是我看到的 CD 收藏还是你提到的汽车，你对视频游戏的兴趣。

It seems that one thing that you've done that a lot of guys that I knew, because back then, by the way, it was mostly guys, now, as we said, women doing it, too.

似乎我认识的很多男人都做过一件事，因为那时，顺便说一句，主要是男人，现在，正如我们所说，女人也在做。

Women and girls.

妇女和女孩。

It seems like you have a lot of other hobbies and interests, music, etc., but that we never heard about you getting distracted or pulled down those lines.

看起来你还有很多其他的爱好和兴趣、音乐等等，但我们从未听说过你会分心或拉低这些界限。

We didn't hear about you going and surfing and getting hurt.

我们没有听说你去冲浪并受伤了。

Surfing so that you couldn't skate, or getting really into motorcycles or racing cars.

冲浪以至于你无法滑冰，或者真正喜欢摩托车或赛车。

Right.

正确的。

Some people went hard left out of skateboarding into that.

有些人彻底放弃了滑板运动。

Like Ken Block, the late, great Ken Block.

就像肯·布洛克，已故的、伟大的肯·布洛克。

But that became his main thing.

但这成了他的主要事情。

Seems like you knew that skateboarding was the mainframe and stayed with that, and yet you have a lot of other interests.

看起来你知道滑板是主流并坚持下去，但你还有很多其他兴趣。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Well, with other sports, especially like motocross, I have this huge respect for motocross.

嗯，对于其他运动，尤其是越野摩托车，我非常尊重越野摩托车。

I think it's super exciting.

我认为这非常令人兴奋。

I would love to do it, and I know that I would not escape unscathed.

我很乐意这样做，而且我知道我不会毫发无伤。

Like, I would definitely want to learn the tricks, do whips and flips and whatever, and I'm going to get hurt, and I don't want to risk my skate career for that.

就像，我肯定想学习技巧，做鞭子和翻转等等，但我会受伤，我不想为此拿我的滑冰生涯冒险。

So I purposely pulled away from that type of thing.

所以我故意远离这类事情。

The last knee surgery I had is because I overshot a jump in Mammoth on my snowboard.

我最后一次进行膝盖手术是因为我在滑雪板上滑过猛犸象的跳跃。

So that was a lesson.

所以这是一个教训。

It was like, don't, what are you doing?

就像，不要，你在做什么？

Andrew Huberman: Just cruise.

安德鲁·休伯曼：只是巡航。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Stay on the ground, hit the powder.

站在地面上，击打粉末。

Andrew Huberman: Right.

安德鲁·休伯曼：对。

Tony Hawk: Free ride with your bros.

托尼·霍克：和你的兄弟一起免费骑行。

Because I learned my lesson.

因为我吸取了教训。

Yeah, you're right.

是的，你是对的。

But at the same time, I still love going surfing and snowboarding.

但与此同时，我仍然喜欢冲浪和滑雪。

I don't do them as much, obviously, but those were part of what I did all growing up, and they're important to me.

显然，我不经常做这些事情，但这些是我成长过程中所做的事情的一部分，它们对我来说很重要。

I did do a couple of celebrity car races, like a NASCAR race, and I totaled a car in the Long Beach Grand Prix because this dude ran me into the wall, and it was like, well, that was fun, but I don't have the bandwidth to get that serious about it.

我确实参加过几场名人赛车比赛，比如纳斯卡比赛，我在长滩大奖赛上撞坏了一辆汽车，因为这个家伙把我撞到了墙上，这就像，嗯，这很有趣，但我没有足够的带宽来认真对待它。

Andrew Huberman: And now you have a family, of course, too.

安德鲁·休伯曼：当然，现在你也有了家庭。

Tony Hawk: Of course.

托尼·霍克：当然。

Yeah.

是的。

And those things, as fun as they are and, I don't know, as sort of auxiliary as they are, they require a lot of time.

这些东西，尽管它们很有趣，而且，我不知道，尽管它们是一种辅助，但它们需要很多时间。

I mean just for instance, that Long Beach Grand Prix, they want you to go stay in Palmdale for, like, a week and a half and train and figure out how to truly know how to drive and be safe.

我的意思是，例如，长滩大奖赛，他们希望你去帕姆代尔呆一个半星期，接受训练，弄清楚如何真正知道如何驾驶和安全。

And it's like, I don't got time for that.

就像，我没有时间这样做。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, that's time you're not skateboarding.

Andrew Huberman：是的，到时候你就不再玩滑板了。

Tony Hawk: Or with your family.

托尼·霍克：或者和你的家人一起。

Andrew Huberman: Right.

安德鲁·休伯曼：对。

Yeah, right.

是的，对。

I feel the same way.

我也有同样的感觉。

If I get pulled away from reading papers and prepping podcasts and reading the latest research and thinking about experiments we could do, then, for more than a couple of days, I start feeling the itch.

如果我从阅读论文、准备播客、阅读最新研究和思考我们可以做的实验中抽身出来，那么，在超过几天的时间里，我就会开始感到痒痒。

I have a feeling this stuff is programmed into one's nervous system after a while.

我有一种感觉，一段时间后，这些东西就会被编程到一个人的神经系统中。

Like, you've been skateboarding for so long that if you go a few days, it probably just your system is, like, depriving you of water or something.

就像，你玩滑板已经很长时间了，如果你玩了几天，可能只是你的系统缺水或其他什么东西。

Tony Hawk: Yeah, for sure.

托尼·霍克：是的，当然。

Well, just for instance, our ramp is being torn down on Sunday.

举例来说，我们的坡道将在周日被拆除。

Today is Friday.

今天是星期五。

Our ramp is being torn down on Sunday at 10:00 a.m.

我们的坡道将于周日上午 10:00 拆除。

To be moved to Salt Lake City for our big vert event.

将移师盐湖城参加我们的大型垂直活动。

I'm going there at 8:30 so I can get a session before it gets torn down.

我将于 8:30 去那里，这样我就可以在它被拆除之前进行一次会议。

Andrew Huberman: I love it.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢它。

Tony Hawk: On Father's Day.

托尼·霍克：在父亲节。

That's my Father's Day.

那是我的父亲节。

I'm going to work at 8:30 a.m.

我早上 8:30 去上班

On Sunday.

周日。

Andrew Huberman: I love it.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢它。

Speaking of family and lineage, tell us about your kids.

说到家庭和血统，请告诉我们您的孩子。

You've got some talented skateboarders in your family besides yourself.

除了你自己之外，你家里还有一些才华横溢的滑板运动员。

Tony Hawk: I do.

托尼·霍克：我愿意。

Well, I have four of my own, and I have two step kids, and they all skate.

嗯，我自己有四个孩子，还有两个继子，他们都滑冰。

My daughter, not so much anymore, but all the boys, five boys, are all really into it.

我的女儿，不再那么喜欢了，但是所有的男孩，五个男孩，都非常喜欢它。

My oldest son is the most.

我的大儿子是最多的。

He's the most prominent because he turned pro and has his own following, has a name for himself.

他是最著名的，因为他转为职业球员，有自己的追随者，有自己的名字。

Riley.

莱利。

And he's 30.

而且他已经30岁了。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, he kills it on street.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，他在街上杀人。

He's a big street skateboarder.

他是一位街头滑板高手。

Tony Hawk: He does, yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的，他确实如此。

But they're all good.

但他们都很好。

They're all good skaters in their own ways.

他们都是以自己的方式表现出色的滑冰运动员。

And it's so fun.

这太有趣了。

Of course, they're surrounded by it their whole life, especially Riley.

当然，他们一生都被它包围着，尤其是莱利。

Because when he was young, I didn't really have the means to have childcare or whatever, so I just had to take him with me on tours and whatnot.

因为当他年轻的时候，我真的没有办法照顾孩子或其他什么，所以我只能带他去旅游什么的。

So he was always around it.

所以他总是在它周围。

So he got good at it by default.

所以他默认就擅长了。

But at some point started to shy away from it because he felt the pressure in my shadow, and it was like, this isn't fun.

但在某个时候，他开始回避它，因为他感受到了我阴影中的压力，就像，这并不有趣。

People expect me to be super good or I have to do this stuff.

人们期望我表现得非常出色，否则我就必须做这些事情。

And so he went, shied away from it, but then found a bunch of his friends in high school.

于是他就离开了，回避了它，但后来发现了他的一群高中朋友。

They love skating.

他们喜欢滑冰。

He's still good at it.

他还是很擅长的。

So he found his crew, and they have all found their crews completely independent of me.

所以他找到了他的船员，他们都发现他们的船员完全独立于我。

And so when we go on vacation, for instance last year we were in, or two years ago we were on the Big Island, Hawaii.

所以当我们去度假时，例如去年我们在，或者两年前我们在夏威夷大岛。

They want to go to skate parks.

他们想去滑板公园。

I don't want to go to skate parks.

我不想去滑板公园。

I'm on vacation.

我在度假。

Andrew Huberman: It's also little harsh stuff.

Andrew Huberman：这也有点刺耳。

It's a great way to get hurt, right?

这是一种很好的受伤方式，对吧？

Tony Hawk: What's that?

托尼·霍克：那是什么？

Andrew Huberman: Over in Hawaii?

安德鲁·休伯曼：在夏威夷吗？

It's all weather worn.

都是天气磨损的。

Tony Hawk: Oh, yeah.

托尼·霍克：哦，是的。

And it's not even my scene.

这甚至不是我的场景。

I'm, so I'm their chauffeur and I'm their filmer.

我是，所以我是他们的司机，我是他们的摄影师。

Andrew Huberman: I love it.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢它。

Tony Hawk: That's my vacation.

托尼·霍克：那是我的假期。

But because they all love it so much, you know what?

但因为他们都非常喜欢它，你知道吗？

It just.

只是。

It's so.

是这样的。

How could I ever ask for more?

我怎么能要求更多呢？

It's amazing.

太棒了。

Andrew Huberman: Let's talk about Frank and Nancy a little bit.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我们来谈谈弗兰克和南希。

Just because I have this kind of odd connection to your family through, it's really two- or three-day interaction changed my life forever.

仅仅因为我和你的家人有这种奇怪的联系，两三天的互动就永远改变了我的生活。

Meeting you was spectacular as a young skateboarding kid.

作为一个年轻的滑板孩子，见到你真是太棒了。

But also just the idea that someone would literally take me into their home.

但也只是有人真的会带我去他们家的想法。

I mean, they had every reason to not trust me.

我的意思是，他们有充分的理由不信任我。

First of all, I was hanging out with Billy Waldman.

首先，我和比利·沃尔德曼一起出去玩。

No explanation needed.

无需解释。

The people who knew Billy, I hope he's doing well.

认识比利的人，我希望他一切都好。

I haven't heard anything about him, but I hope he's doing well.

我没有听说过他的任何消息，但我希望他一切都好。

But we were wild.

但我们很疯狂。

But he basically took me into your home.

但他基本上带我进了你家。

He and Nancy took me, know, fed us or fed me.

他和南希带了我，知道，喂了我们或喂了我。

I had another friend with me.

我还有另一个朋友和我一起。

You know, I just have to say, as you're describing your family, I can only imagine what it must have been like for Frank and Nancy to see you have your kids, did they get to live long enough to see that Riley and your other kids were skateboarders?

你知道，我只想说，当你描述你的家庭时，我只能想象弗兰克和南希看到你有孩子时会是什么样子，他们是否能活到看到莱利和你的其他孩子都是滑板运动员？

Tony Hawk: My dad met Riley, but my dad passed away when Riley was two.

托尼·霍克：我父亲遇见了莱利，但我父亲在莱利两岁时就去世了。

So he's the only one of my kids that he met.

所以他是我的孩子中他见过的唯一一个。

My older sibling had kids, so he met two of his other grandkids besides Riley.

我的哥哥有孩子了，所以他遇到了除了莱利之外的另外两个孙子。

My mom got to see some of Riley's success, but she suffered from Alzheimer's, dementia, and so things slipped away.

我妈妈看到了莱利的一些成功，但她患有阿尔茨海默氏症和痴呆症，所以事情就这样过去了。

But I think that my dad would not believe that skateboarding is in the Olympics.

但我想我爸爸不会相信滑板运动进入了奥运会。

To him, that is the top of the mountain, because he was really into other sports.

对他来说，那是山顶，因为他真的很喜欢其他运动。

He loved sports.

他热爱运动。

He loved the Olympics.

他热爱奥运会。

He loved watching football.

他喜欢看足球比赛。

He loved watching baseball.

他喜欢看棒球比赛。

He loved when the Olympics were on.

他喜欢奥运会举行的时候。

He loved the competition element and the hype of it.

他喜欢竞争元素和它的炒作。

And I think there was part of him that felt like, why isn't skateboarding in this?

我认为他心里有一部分感觉，为什么滑板不在其中？

But he knew that there were so many hurdles to get through and so much more acceptance that needed to happen, and I don't think he imagined would ever happen.

但他知道有很多障碍需要克服，需要更多的接受，而我认为他想象不到会发生。

Andrew Huberman: He was a special guy.

安德鲁·休伯曼：他是一个特别的人。

I can still hear his voice.

我仍然能听到他的声音。

He was a very large guy, too.

他也是一个非常大的人。

I don't know if I was just smaller then.

不知道那时我是不是还小。

I definitely was smaller.

我肯定更小。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Andrew Huberman: No, he had, like, a big presence.

安德鲁·休伯曼：不，他的影响力很大。

And I know I've told you this many times before, this is actually how we got reconnected.

我知道我之前已经告诉过你很多次了，这实际上就是我们重新建立联系的方式。

I sent you a direct message and said, hey, I met your parents.

我给你发了一条私信，说，嘿，我见过你的父母。

In fact, they took me into your home, and I'm telling the truth.

事实上，他们把我带到你家，我说的是实话。

And you'll know I'm telling the truth, because they took me to dinner, and they ordered black coffee after dinner.

你会知道我说的是实话，因为他们带我去吃晚饭，晚饭后他们点了黑咖啡。

And for years, I would order black coffee after dinner.

多年来，我都会在晚饭后点黑咖啡。

As a kid, you're just so impressionable.

作为一个孩子，你真是太容易受影响了。

These really nice people took me in.

这些非常好的人收留了我。

I was like, wow, this is what a really healthy family looks like.

我当时想，哇，这就是一个真正健康的家庭的样子。

I'm grateful to have loving parents, always did.

我很感激有慈爱的父母，一直都是。

But I didn't have the healthy family structure.

但我没有健康的家庭结构。

So for me, it was like, oh, my goodness, these people drink black coffee in the afternoon.

所以对我来说，就像，哦，天哪，这些人下午喝黑咖啡。

This must be what healthy families do.

这应该是健康家庭应该做的事情。

So, by the way, folks, don't drink caffeine within eight hours of going to do sleep.

所以，顺便说一句，各位，睡觉前八小时内不要喝咖啡因。

Tony Hawk: Andrew Huberman: It doesn't seem to be holding you back, individualize, but, yeah, it's spectacular that this lineage, you know, Frank to you and I mentioned and Nancy, because it seems like while she might not have been at the contest and running around setting up tables and doing all like, she clearly was supportive as well.

托尼·霍克：安德鲁·胡伯曼：这似乎并没有阻碍你，个性化，但是，是的，你知道，弗兰克对你和我提到的这个血统是壮观的，还有南希，因为看起来虽然她可能没有参加比赛，没有跑来跑去摆桌子，做所有类似的事情，但她显然也很支持。

Tony Hawk: Oh she was.

托尼·霍克：哦，她是。

At a lot of the events, too.

在很多活动中也是如此。

I mean, they needed all hands on deck when it started getting big and no one was taking salaries.

我的意思是，当公司开始变大并且没有人拿薪水时，他们需要所有人齐心协力。

That was the thing is that people thought, like, oh, your dad's, like, cashing in.

事情是这样的，人们认为，哦，你爸爸，就像，赚钱。

He never took up money for any of that.

他从来没有为这些事情收过钱。

And he took so much shit.

他还拿了那么多狗屎。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

He just loved it.

他只是喜欢它。

Andrew Huberman: It was for you, I have to imagine.

Andrew Huberman：我想这是给你的。

Tony Hawk: It was for me, and it was also for the misfits that I surrounded myself with.

托尼·霍克：这是为了我，也是为了那些我周围不合群的人。

And even though he was brash and I don't know, what's the word, he was foreboding and intimidating and whatever else, he did it for all those kids that were kind of lost, like you.

尽管他很傲慢，我不知道该用什么词来形容，但他有一种不祥的预感和恐吓感，不管怎样，他这样做是为了所有那些像你一样迷失的孩子。

I mean, really, he loved that it brought them together, that it gave them a sense of self, it gave them a sense of purpose.

我的意思是，真的，他喜欢它让他们聚集在一起，它给了他们一种自我意识，它给了他们一种使命感。

He saw that because he was that.

他看到了这一点，因为他就是那样。

He really had a rough childhood, and he did everything he could through his adult life to make up for it with his own kids and with the kids that they surround themselves with.

他的童年确实很艰难，他在成年后尽了一切努力来弥补自己的孩子和周围的孩子。

So that's what he loved about it.

这就是他喜欢的地方。

Of course.

当然。

He loved seeing me thrive, too, but he loved that he created this safe space and this sense of community.

他也喜欢看到我茁壮成长，但他喜欢他创造的这个安全的空间和这种社区意识。

And so my mom.

我的妈妈也是如此。

My mom, that was her thing, was getting people together, gatherings.

我妈妈，那是她的事，就是把人们聚集在一起，聚会。

Oh, we should all get together.

哦，我们都应该聚在一起。

Even my siblings and I, as much as we want to emulate our parents, we don't do it as much as they did, and we regret that.

即使是我和我的兄弟姐妹，尽管我们很想效仿我们的父母，但我们并没有像他们那样做，我们对此感到遗憾。

Andrew Huberman: Well, there's still time.

安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯，还有时间。

Tony Hawk: No, I mean, we do, but it's tricky.

托尼·霍克：不，我的意思是，我们这样做，但这很棘手。

We're all in different areas.

我们都在不同的领域。

Andrew Huberman: Sure.

安德鲁·休伯曼：当然。

Yeah.

是的。

The person that comes to mind when I think about your dad.

当我想到你父亲时，我就会想到这个人。

I'm forgetting the movie, but there's this one Clint Eastwood movie where he lives in a neighborhood where I think it's a bunch of young gangsters.

我忘记了这部电影，但有一部克林特·伊斯特伍德的电影，他住在一个我认为是一群年轻歹徒的社区。

Tony Hawk: El Camino.

托尼·霍克：《埃尔卡米诺》。

Andrew Huberman: El Camino, yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：《埃尔卡米诺》，是的。

And I just remember there's that scene of Clint coming out on his porch and just standing really upright.

我只记得克林特走出门廊，笔直地站着的场景。

Everything in his front lawn is everything super manicured and just standing there like this immense presence.

他前面草坪上的一切都经过精心修剪，就像一个巨大的存在一样站在那里。

And that's how I remember Frank Hawk.

这就是我对弗兰克·霍克的记忆。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

But he was a total softie.

但他是个十足的软蛋。

That's the thing.

就是这样。

It was all a front.

这全是幌子。

Andrew Huberman: Well, he was certainly very --

安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯，他确实非常——

Tony Hawk: You got to see that side of him where it's just like, oh, yeah.

托尼·霍克：你必须看到他的另一面，就像，哦，是的。

Come on, we'll take you out.

来吧，我们带你出去。

You want to go see Tony's place?

你想去托尼家看看吗？

Let's go.

我们走吧。

That's not some hard ass.

这不是什么难事。

Andrew Huberman: Well, there's a tail end of the story, too, where he actually called my mom, and I think there may have been a statement or two about, hey, this kid's 14.

安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯，故事还有一个结尾，他实际上给我妈妈打电话，我想可能有一两句话是关于，嘿，这个孩子 14 岁。

Like, he can't be in Linda Vista Boys Club, taking the bus back to Lancaster, etc. May have been some discussion like that, but then they also paid for me to go home.

比如，他不能在琳达维斯塔男孩俱乐部，不能坐公共汽车回兰卡斯特，等等。可能有过类似的讨论，但后来他们也付钱让我回家。

Tony Hawk: Oh yeah.

托尼·霍克：哦，是的。

Andrew Huberman: They flew me home.

安德鲁·休伯曼：他们带我回家。

So I think I owe you a couple hundred bucks for a Southwest flight or whatever airline it was.

所以我想我欠你几百美元的西南航空或任何航空公司的航班费用。

Well, it's fun.

嗯，这很有趣。

And I think, important to reminisce about these people, because they aren't just your parents, but they've done so much.

我认为，回忆这些人很重要，因为他们不仅仅是你的父母，而且他们做了很多事情。

And through you.

并通过你。

I really think that emotions and stories are really like the equivalent of energy in humans when people talk about energy, because that gets carried forward.

我真的认为，当人们谈论能量时，情感和故事真的就像人类的能量一样，因为它会被传承下去。

Speaking of which, we share a common love of some particular music.

说到这里，我们对某些特定的音乐有着共同的爱好。

Are you somebody who listens to music to inspire you to get amped up to go skateboard?

您是一个通过听音乐来激励自己去滑板的人吗？

Is music an important part of your life?

音乐是你生活的重要组成部分吗？

Tony Hawk: Yeah, let's put it this way.

托尼·霍克：是的，我们这样说吧。

I had a playlist for my 540 the other day.

前几天我有一个 540 的播放列表。

Andrew Huberman: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

Tony Hawk: Fine-tuned to that trick and what would get me motivated and hyped to do it.

托尼·霍克：对这个技巧进行了微调，以及什么会让我有动力和兴奋去做它。

Andrew Huberman: You don't have to share with us what's on the playlist unless you choose to.

Andrew Huberman：除非您选择，否则您不必与我们分享播放列表上的内容。

Tony Hawk: Oh man.

托尼·霍克：天哪。

Andrew Huberman: But was it high energy, low energy?

Andrew Huberman：但是它是高能量还是低能量？

Tony Hawk: High energy.

托尼·霍克：精力充沛。

Well, and some meaningful songs like New Order "Ceremony," and, let's see, Nine Inch Nails "Getting Smaller." Because that was a song we used in one of our big skate tours, and it was one of the most high energy sections of the show.

好吧，还有一些有意义的歌曲，比如 New Order 的《Ceremony》，还有，让我们看看，九寸钉的《Getting Smaller》。因为那是我们在一次大型滑板巡演中使用的歌曲，也是节目中能量最高的部分之一。

Gosh, I can't go through all of them.

天哪，我无法全部看完。

I forget.

我忘记了。

Gang of Four.

四人帮。

Wait, Gang of Four is ...

等等，四人帮是……

shit, I forgot.

妈的，我忘了。

What is it?

它是什么？

Oh, "I Found That Essence Rare." Fires up.

哦，“我发现这种精华很罕见。”火起来了

So I had, like, ten that were just going to.

所以我有大约十个。

If any of those played, I'm going to make it.

如果其中任何一个参加了，我都会参加。

And I knew that it was about an hour and a half, and that's as long as I'm going to try it before I'm too tired.

我知道大约需要一个半小时，只要在我太累之前我就可以尝试一下。

Andrew Huberman: So you're listening in the warehouse, on random?

Andrew Huberman：所以你是在仓库里随机监听的？

Tony Hawk: In the warehouse.

托尼·霍克：在仓库里。

And then the song that I made it to was off of that Prodigy album, "The Fat of the Land," and it's called "Climbatize." It's instrumental.

然后我创作的歌曲来自 Prodigy 专辑“The Fat of the Land”，它的名字是“Climbatize”。这是有帮助的。

I used it for a Birdhouse edit when 411 was the thing.

当 411 流行时，我用它来进行 Birdhouse 编辑。

Andrew Huberman: 411 were these little video-newsletter type things.

Andrew Huberman：411 是这些视频通讯类型的小东西。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

So when that song came on, I was feeling it.

所以当这首歌响起的时候，我就有这样的感觉。

I made it.

我做到了。

Andrew Huberman: Fantastic.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。

I love this because the neuroscientist in me is immediately going to say, we have this brain that loves to take in information and discard other information.

我喜欢这个，因为我内心的神经科学家会立即说，我们的大脑喜欢吸收信息并丢弃其他信息。

But paired association is so strong.

但配对关联是如此强烈。

And when you couple that with some sense of reward, like the making of the varial below coping early in life, or making the 540 as a comeback to the injury, after the injury, it --

当你将其与某种奖励感结合起来时，例如在生命早期进行下面的变体应对，或者在受伤后进行 540 作为伤病复出，它——

Tony Hawk: Was almost like I loved all that music, but I was indoctrinated by it through the skate parks, because that was the soundtrack to the skate.

托尼·霍克：就像我喜欢所有这些音乐一样，但我是通过滑板公园被灌输的，因为那是滑板的配乐。

It was punk music.

这是朋克音乐。

It was Sex Pistols and 999 and Black Flag and Devo and X and Buzzcocks.

是 Sex Pistols、999、Black Flag、Devo、X 和 Buzzcocks。

That's what I kept hearing, and that's what I associate with my best of times.

这就是我一直听到的，这就是我与我最好的时光联系在一起的。

Andrew Huberman: It's in your nervous system.

Andrew Huberman：它在你的神经系统中。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Andrew Huberman: There's a few voices.

Andrew Huberman：有一些声音。

Rancid and Tim Armstrong.

兰西德和蒂姆·阿姆斯特朗。

Tony Hawk: Operation Ivy.

托尼·霍克：常春藤行动。

Andrew Huberman: Operation Ivy.

安德鲁·休伯曼：常春藤行动。

Tony Hawk: Tim's "Sound System" was on that playlist.

托尼·霍克：蒂姆的“声音系统”就在那个播放列表上。

Was on the 540 playlist.

位于 540 个播放列表中。

Andrew Huberman: All right.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

Tim will be so happy to hear that.

蒂姆听到这个会很高兴。

And Matt Freeman, the bass player, and Jesse Michaels is now playing again with Tim, the lead singer of Operation Ivy.

贝斯手马特·弗里曼和杰西·迈克尔斯现在再次与常春藤行动的主唱蒂姆一起演奏。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

With their new gig.

带着他们的新演出。

What's it called?

它叫什么？

Andrew Huberman: They had a name, and then they changed it.

Andrew Huberman：他们有一个名字，然后他们改变了它。

Initially, it was.

最初是这样。

I don't want to say because they changed it for a reason, but we --

我不想说，因为他们改变它是有原因的，但我们——

Tony Hawk: I know they're making new music.

托尼·霍克：我知道他们正在制作新音乐。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

Which is amazing.

这太棒了。

Operation Ivy is incredible.

常春藤行动令人难以置信。

My yearbook photo for I think two years running was the cover of Operation Ivy because I didn't show up for the yearbook photo.

我想连续两年我的年鉴照片都是常春藤行动的封面，因为我没有出现在年鉴照片中。

Speaking of which, did you show up for your yearbook photos or did you graduate high school?

说到这里，你出现在你的年鉴照片中还是你高中毕业了？

Tony Hawk: I graduated high school, but I didn't go to any of the events, prom, or any of the auxiliary.

托尼·霍克：我高中毕业，但我没有参加任何活动、舞会或任何辅助活动。

I was an outcast.

我是一个被遗弃的人。

Even though I had success in skating, skating wasn't cool, and I was not homies with anyone at school except for two other skaters.

尽管我在滑冰方面取得了成功，但滑冰并不酷，而且除了另外两名滑冰运动员之外，我在学校里与任何人都不是朋友。

And we felt very ostracized.

我们感到非常被排斥。

Yeah, I did show up for the graduation because my mom and dad wanted to see it.

是的，我确实参加了毕业典礼，因为我爸爸妈妈想看。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, likewise, I graduated, but I could tell you more about the curbs in the parking lot of my high school than I could about anything that happened in the class.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，同样，我毕业了，但我可以告诉你更多有关我高中停车场路缘石的信息，而不是课堂上发生的任何事情。

Tony Hawk: Man, I broke so many sprinkler heads because the sprinkler heads were right next to the curb, and there was a double-sided curb.

托尼·霍克：伙计，我打破了很多洒水喷头，因为洒水喷头就在路缘旁边，而且有双面路缘。

And so if you boardslide, because I'd go there early and boardslide, and then I'd just, like, lean too far in and break the sprinkler head and never got caught.

所以，如果你滑倒，因为我会早点去那里滑倒，然后我就会，喜欢，靠得太远，打破洒水喷头，但永远不会被抓住。

Andrew Huberman: What high school?

安德鲁·休伯曼：什么高中？

Tony Hawk: Well, I went to a couple.

托尼·霍克：嗯，我去了几个。

I went to Serra High School originally.

我原本就读于塞拉高中。

Then I went to San Dieguito High School, which is in North County, and then I ended up at Torrey Pines.

然后我去了北县的圣迭吉托高中，最后我去了多利松。

I got so bullied at San Dieguito that I requested to be transferred because I couldn't survive there as a skater.

我在圣迪吉托受到了很大的欺负，所以我要求转学，因为我无法以滑冰运动员的身份在那里生存。

I would have to hide my skateboard in the bushes before class and then go find it after school so that people wouldn't target me.

我必须在上课前把滑板藏在灌木丛里，然后放学后去找它，这样人们就不会针对我。

Andrew Huberman: The '80s were rough.

Andrew Huberman：80 年代很艰难。

It was like a John Hughes film, for sure.

当然，这就像约翰·休斯的电影。

Tony Hawk: It was jocks versus nerds.

托尼·霍克：这是运动员与书呆子的较量。

And then skaters were, like, not even considered in that realm because they're going to get hammered because there were so few of us.

然后滑冰者甚至没有被考虑在那个领域，因为他们会受到打击，因为我们人太少了。

Andrew Huberman: Well, things have changed.

安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯，事情已经改变了。

And not only have things have changed such that skateboarding is far more popular and respected.

事情不仅发生了变化，滑板运动也变得更加流行和受到尊重。

And at least one mark of that is in the Olympics.

其中至少一个标志就是奥运会。

Although there are other marks of respect, certainly, but a huge evolution that I've observed is when I was skateboarding as a 14-year-old and close to my 20s and then took some time off, for sure.

虽然当然还有其他尊重的标志，但我观察到的一个巨大的演变是当我 14 岁、接近 20 多岁的时候玩滑板，然后休息了一段时间，这是肯定的。

Hardly any girls.

几乎没有女孩。

Hardly any women.

几乎没有女人。

There were a few, like Cara-Beth Burnside.

其中有一些，比如卡拉-贝丝·伯恩赛德。

They got teased, ridiculed.

他们被嘲笑、被嘲笑。

It was hard on them.

这对他们来说很难。

Tony Hawk: Super hard.

托尼·霍克：超级难。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, super hard.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，超级难。

Now, largely through Instagram, but some other channels as well.

现在，主要是通过 Instagram，但也有一些其他渠道。

You can see this young girl, Reese on vert, skateboarding better than a lot of grown men who have been skateboarding for decades, I mean.

我的意思是，你可以看到这个年轻的女孩，Reese 在垂直方向上，比许多已经玩滑板几十年的成年男子更好地玩滑板。

And then there are a number of other ones in street skateboarding and also taking really hard slams.

还有一些街头滑板的其他人也获得了真正的大满贯。

This is a complete revision of the recent history of skateboarding.

这是对滑板运动近代历史的彻底修订。

So, thoughts on that and on Reese, and there are a few others.

所以，关于这个和里斯的想法，还有其他一些想法。

Is it Lizzie, who took a really bad fall that was filmed?

是被拍到摔得很惨的莉齐吗？

Tony Hawk: Broke the neck off her femur.

托尼·霍克：把她股骨上的脖子折断了。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, these are tough ladies.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，这些都是坚强的女士。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Doing it.

安德鲁·休伯曼：去做吧。

And for coming back.

以及为了回来。

Tony Hawk: Lizzie did the loop.

托尼·霍克：莉齐完成了循环。

She did the full 360 loop.

她完成了完整的 360 度循环。

First woman to ever do it.

第一个做到这一点的女性。

Andrew Huberman: So what do you think changed that, paved the way?

安德鲁·休伯曼：那么你认为是什么改变了这一点，并铺平了道路？

Is it just a critical mass of females doing it?

仅仅是有一定数量的女性在这样做吗？

Is it that Sky Brown?

是那个天棕吗？

Tony Hawk: For sure.

托尼·霍克：当然。

There were the pioneers, people like Cara-Beth Burnside, and there's so many others.

其中有先驱者，如卡拉-贝丝·伯恩赛德 (Cara-Beth Burnside) 等人，还有很多其他人。

Pattie Hoffman was one of the first vert skaters, too, who ...

帕蒂·霍夫曼 (Pattie Hoffman) 也是最早的垂直滑冰运动员之一，她...

They planted the seed.

他们播下了种子。

And then there were other women that took inspiration, like, oh, girls can do this, even though they're largely outnumbered and they get hassled, for sure.

然后还有其他女性受到了启发，比如，哦，女孩可以做到这一点，尽管她们在数量上远远落后，而且肯定会遇到麻烦。

And then through the street era, people like Elissa Steamer, who paved the way for legit street skating.

然后到了街头滑冰时代，像 Elissa Steamer 这样的人为合法的街头滑冰铺平了道路。

But then through the years, it started to become more common, more accepted, which is dumb to say, because it should have always been accepted.

但多年来，它开始变得更加普遍，更加被接受，这说起来很愚蠢，因为它应该一直被接受。

But the thing that really tipped the scale was when everything was leading up to the Olympics, there had to be equal divisions in equal disciplines for men and women.

但真正扭转局面的是，当一切都在为奥运会做准备时，男女必须在平等的项目中进行平等的分组。

And suddenly there was no question of, should we have a women's event?

突然间，我们应该举办女子比赛吗？

Like, no, we have to have a women's event, because that's the road to qualifying for the Olympic stage and Vans Park Series.

就像，不，我们必须举办女子比赛，因为这是获得奥运会舞台和 Vans 公园系列赛资格的道路。

To their credit, they were holding events simultaneously.

值得赞扬的是，他们同时举办活动。

Not that were Olympic qualifiers, but just their own.

那不是奥运会预选赛，而是他们自己的预选赛。

And they said these events are equal across the board, equal prize money, equal attention.

他们说这些赛事在各个方面都是平等的，奖金平等，关注度平等。

I mean, it was just like.

我的意思是，就像这样。

That was just matter of fact.

这只是事实而已。

And that shifted a lot.

这发生了很大变化。

It really did.

确实如此。

Now, if you go to a skate park, you see plenty of women there.

现在，如果你去滑板公园，你会看到那里有很多女性。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, it's awesome.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，太棒了。

Tony Hawk: Literal women, like moms, there are older women that are learning how to skate.

托尼·霍克：真正的女性，就像妈妈一样，有一些年长的女性正在学习如何滑冰。

It's awesome.

太棒了。

Andrew Huberman: Not that it matters so much, but does anyone claim to be the first female do 540 on vert?

Andrew Huberman：这并不是那么重要，但是有人声称自己是第一个在 vert 上做 540 的女性吗？

Is that sort of a known.

这是已知的吗？

Tony Hawk: That would be Lyn-Z Adams.

托尼·霍克：那就是 Lyn-Z Adams。

Andrew Huberman: Fantastic.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。

Tony Hawk: And she did that.

托尼·霍克：她做到了。

I'll tell you how she did that.

我会告诉你她是怎么做到的。

She was trying it.

她正在尝试。

So she's trying to McTwist.

所以她正在尝试麦克扭转。

She's married to Travis Pastrana.

她嫁给了特拉维斯·帕斯特拉纳。

It's like the elite action sports couple.

这就像精英极限运动情侣。

And she was trying them.

她正在尝试它们。

She was getting pretty close.

她已经非常接近了。

And then we did a big exhibition in Paris at the Grand Palais on behalf of Quicksilver.

然后我们代表 Quicksilver 在巴黎大皇宫举办了一场大型展览。

It was a huge event.

这是一件大事。

They put a halfpipe up and we did this giant show.

他们架起U形管，我们表演了这场大型表演。

There were thousands of people there, and it was very much unspoken but expected that I was going to do a 900 at this event.

那里有成千上万的人，虽然没有说出口，但我预计我会在这次活动中完成 900 米的比赛。

I think it was.

我想是的。

I want to say it was 2010, maybe.

我想说那是2010年，也许吧。

No, like 2009.

不，就像2009年那样。

And the organizers were kind of like, okay, so we're going to do this.

组织者的反应是，好吧，所以我们就这么做。

And then at some point you do a 900.

然后在某个时刻你会做900。

And I was like, I can't guarantee that ever.

我当时想，我不能保证这一点。

Like, every time I've ever made it, it's been pretty spontaneous.

就像，每次我成功的时候，都是很自发的。

I've set out to do it and I've come up short.

我已经着手去做了，但我却未能如愿。

I can't guarantee it.

我不能保证。

I'll try.

我会尽力。

I'll try.

我会尽力。

And they're like, yeah, okay.

他们说，是的，好吧。

And so I knew the whole time that we're skating, I was like, okay, everyone's expecting this.

所以我知道我们滑冰的整个过程中，我就想，好吧，每个人都在期待这一点。

So I kind of went through the motions of doing my exhibition tricks, playing the hits, and then started trying 900s.

所以我就开始表演我的表演技巧，演奏热门曲目，然后开始尝试 900 度。

And at the same time, Lyn-Z started trying 540s because she was feeling that energy.

与此同时，Lyn-Z 开始尝试 540，因为她感受到了那种能量。

And so it was this sort of not battle, but definitely we were trading hits.

所以这不是一场战斗，但我们肯定是在交易命中。

It was like, all right, here goes Tony.

就好像，好吧，托尼来了。

Suddenly you missed it.

突然你就错过了。

And here goes Lyn-Z.

Lyn-Z 来了。

Oh, she missed it.

哦，她错过了。

And then she almost made one.

然后她差一点就做出来了。

Like, was riding down and then fell at the flat bottom.

就像，骑着下来，然后摔在平坦的底部。

It was like, oh, and then I made 900, and it was kind of the showstopper because that's what they expected.

就好像，哦，然后我赚了 900，这有点令人震惊，因为这就是他们所期望的。

And everyone's going crazy and whatever.

每个人都会发疯等等。

People are coming down off the ramp, knee sliding down, and we're saying goodbye to the crowd.

人们从坡道上下来，膝盖滑落，我们正在向人群告别。

And I look up and Lyn-Z puts her tail out.

我抬头一看，Lyn-Z 伸出了尾巴。

There's still people standing on the ramp.

坡道上还站着人。

And she puts her tail out.

她伸出尾巴。

And I was like, I think Lyn-Z wants to try it again.

我当时想，我想 Lyn-Z 想要再试一次。

Here we go.

开始了。

I'm on the mic now.

我现在正在麦克风上。

She made it.

她做到了。

Andrew Huberman: Love it.

安德鲁·休伯曼：喜欢。

Tony Hawk: She stole the show, like, without question.

托尼·霍克：毫无疑问，她抢尽了风头。

It was huge.

它是巨大的。

You can look it up on YouTube.

你可以在 YouTube 上查找。

Like it's there.

就像它就在那里一样。

Lyn-Z Adams, first 540.

Lyn-Z Adams，第 540 页。

It was awesome.

太棒了。

And then she made it and we all grabbed her and put her on her shoulders.

然后她成功了，我们都抓住了她，把她放在肩膀上。

Andrew Huberman: That is awesome.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。

Tony Hawk: It was pretty cool.

托尼·霍克：太酷了。

Andrew Huberman: That is awesome.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。

Because these things are like the four-minute mile as a barrier.

因为这些东西就像四分钟一英里一样是一个障碍。

Then people break that barrier and then other people break that barrier.

然后人们打破了这个障碍，然后其他人也打破了这个障碍。

I've watched enough of skateboarding in recent years.

近年来我已经看够滑板了。

Like the Sky Brown thing.

比如天棕色的东西。

She's phenomenal.

她太棒了。

And actually saw her family out to dinner here in Los Angeles and with her brother.

实际上还看到她的家人和她的兄弟一起在洛杉矶共进晚餐。

And folks are really gracious.

人们真的很仁慈。

Really nice.

真的很好。

And there again, parents going to the skate park.

再一次，父母去滑板公园。

After all, she couldn't drive herself.

毕竟她自己不会开车。

I think she's, at that time, she was probably like nine.

我想她那时大概九岁吧。

Tony Hawk: Probably one of the biggest shifts, too is that parents encourage their kids to skate now.

托尼·霍克：也许最大的转变之一就是父母现在鼓励孩子们滑冰。

Could you imagine that when we were young?

你能想象我们年轻的时候吗？

Never.

绝不。

Andrew Huberman: No. There were so many factors telling us not to, which just made us want to do it more.

Andrew Huberman：不。有很多因素告诉我们不要这样做，这只是让我们更想做。

Tony Hawk: Sure.

托尼·霍克：当然。

But now kids are like, parents are pushing them into it.

但现在孩子们就像是父母强迫他们这样做。

Get out there, learn tricks.

走出去，学习技巧。

It's like, wait, that's not what we're supposed to be doing.

就像，等等，这不是我们应该做的。

But it's cool that.

但这很酷。

I think the really cool factor of all that is there are definitely people our age.

我认为最酷的因素是肯定有我们这个年纪的人。

I'm grouping you into my age category.

我将你归入我的年龄组。

Andrew Huberman: Forty-seven.

安德鲁·休伯曼：四十七。

Tony Hawk: All right, close enough.

托尼·霍克：好吧，足够接近了。

But that have kids and skateboarding was such a special time in our life.

但有了孩子和滑板是我们生命中非常特别的时光。

And then they're rediscovering it through their kids and they're skating together.

然后他们通过孩子重新发现了这一点，并且一起滑冰。

And I think that's just so amazing that someone of our age would be like, you know what?

我认为这真是太神奇了，我们这个年纪的人会说，你知道吗？

I used to do that.

我曾经这样做过。

You're into that.

你很喜欢那个。

Let's go.

我们走吧。

And then you could show your kid how to do a sweeper.

然后你可以向你的孩子展示如何扫地。

Andrew Huberman: I could probably do that.

Andrew Huberman：我也许可以做到。

I don't have kids yet, but when I do, I intend on being healthy enough and to do a sweeper.

我还没有孩子，但当我有了孩子时，我打算保持足够健康并做一名清扫工。

People can look up sweeper.

人们可以查找扫地机。

We don't have to explain it for them, but little layback grind or a sweeper.

我们不需要向他们解释，但只需一点点悠闲的磨练或清扫器即可。

Yeah.

是的。

Because they wouldn't think to do it.

因为他们不会想到这样做。

Tony Hawk: No. And they are doing all these difficult flip tricks and that's not my scene.

托尼·霍克：不。他们正在做所有这些困难的翻转技巧，那不是我的场景。

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman: What's your go-to on a Game of Skate if you're going to really take out the younger generation?

Andrew Huberman：如果你真的想打败年轻一代，你在滑冰比赛中的首选是什么？

Tony Hawk: I can do impossibles, pretty regularly.

托尼·霍克：我经常能完成不可能的事情。

Andrew Huberman: On transition.

安德鲁·休伯曼：关于转型。

Tony Hawk: I can do them on flat.

托尼·霍克：我可以在平地上做。

Andrew Huberman: So this is where basically you scrape the back of the ...

安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：所以这基本上就是你刮擦背部的地方......

It's an ollie, really, but it wraps around the back board.

它确实是奥利，但它包裹着背板。

Tony Hawk: Wraps over your foot.

托尼·霍克：包住你的脚。

Yeah, that's kind of my sneak attack on Games of Skate.

是的，这就是我对《滑板游戏》的偷袭。

Andrew Huberman: Does Rodney Mullen get credit for that trick?

安德鲁·休伯曼：罗德尼·马伦因这个技巧而受到赞扬吗？

Tony Hawk: Oh, yes.

托尼·霍克：哦，是的。

Andrew Huberman: That's a Rodney.

安德鲁·休伯曼：那是罗德尼。

Are you still in touch with Rodney?

你和罗德尼还有联系吗？

Tony Hawk: Absolutely.

托尼·霍克：当然。

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

He's somebody that certainly deserves mention in the pioneering of tricks.

在技​​巧的开拓方面，他无疑是值得一提的人。

Tony Hawk: He's the godfather of modern skateboarding.

托尼霍克：他是现代滑板的教父。

Andrew Huberman: I think of Rodney, you and Mark Gonzales, "Gonz," as like the guys that I'm honored drove the progression in different, partially overlapping directions that set the template for essentially --

安德鲁·休伯曼：我想到罗德尼、你和马克·冈萨雷斯，“冈兹”，就像我很荣幸的那些人一样，他们在不同的、部分重叠的方向上推动了进展，这些方向本质上设定了模板——

Tony Hawk: I learned fingertips because of Rodney.

托尼·霍克：因为罗德尼，我学会了指尖。

Like, the first trick you saw me do.

就像，你看到我做的第一个把戏。

I learned that because I saw Rodney do it on the ground.

我之所以知道这一点是因为我看到罗德尼在地面上这样做。

And I thought, well, I can't do it on the ground, but I have plenty of time in the air to do it.

我想，好吧，我不能在地面上做到这一点，但我有足够的时间在空中做到这一点。

Andrew Huberman: It's awesome.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。

It's awesome that Stacy put you guys together.

史黛西把你们聚在一起真是太棒了。

We mentioned Bones Brigade, but we didn't really talk about the architecture of it from the perspective of skateboard progression.

我们提到了《Bones Brigade》，但我们并没有真正从滑板进展的角度谈论它的架构。

But it was kind of like any good band.

但这有点像任何优秀的乐队。

It seemed like there was really good chemistry interpersonally, but also that each person had something unique.

人与人之间似乎确实有很好的化学反应，但每个人都有独特的东西。

You skated the way you did.

你按照你的方式滑冰。

Mike skated the way he did, Steve the way he did.

迈克以他的方式滑冰，史蒂夫也以他的方式滑冰。

And Rodney --

还有罗德尼——

Tony Hawk: We respected each other, but we also fed off each other.

托尼·霍克：我们互相尊重，但我们也互相帮助。

Andrew Huberman: Tommy Guerrero, because growing up in the Bay Area, in fact, Tommy skating the hills of San Francisco in those videos makes it look easy.

安德鲁·休伯曼：汤米·格雷罗，因为汤米在湾区长大，事实上，汤米在这些视频中在旧金山的山上滑冰让它看起来很容易。

But those hills are rough, they're dangerous, and they have real life obstacles like moving buses.

但这些山丘崎岖不平，很危险，而且还有现实生活中的障碍，比如移动的公共汽车。

You'll notice he wasn't stopping at stop signs, so it's fantastic.

你会注意到他并没有在停车标志处停下来，所以这太棒了。

We could reminisce about all these angles.

我们可以回忆所有这些角度。

But the point being that spending time with people who do similar things or the same thing but do it differently is one of the best ways to progress.

但重点是，花时间与做类似事情或做同样事情但做事方式不同的人在一起是进步的最佳方法之一。

This is why I routinely fly to Texas and hang out with Peter Attia, another podcaster, Lex Friedman.

这就是为什么我经常飞往德克萨斯州并与另一位播客莱克斯·弗里德曼（Lex Friedman）彼得·阿蒂亚（Peter Attia）一起出去玩。

Just because they do things differently than I do.

只是因为他们做事与我不同。

Where do you draw sort of peripheral inspiration from?

你从哪里汲取外围灵感？

Now, I know you see Jimmy Wilkins at your ramp quite a lot.

现在，我知道你经常在坡道上看到吉米·威尔金斯。

The phenom Jimmy Wilkins.

天才吉米·威尔金斯。

It's kind of eerie how good that kid is.

真是奇怪，这小子的身手竟然这么好。

Who else are you spending time with besides Reese?

除了里斯之外，你还和谁一起度过时光？

And one of the reasons I asked this is that skateboarding is unique among many sports in that a given session, a gathering to skateboard, will include an enormous --

我问这个问题的原因之一是，滑板运动在众多运动中是独一无二的，因为一场特定的比赛，一场滑板聚会，将包括一个巨大的——

Tony Hawk: Fifty-five-year-old men and ten-year-old girls.

托尼·霍克：五十五岁的男人和十岁的女孩。

Andrew Huberman: Exactly.

安德鲁·休伯曼：没错。

Yes.

是的。

Which is incredible.

这是令人难以置信的。

You don't think about soccer, a serious game of soccer between professional soccer --

你不会想到足球，职业足球之间的一场严肃的足球比赛——

Tony Hawk: But also, it's not even that we're skating together.

托尼·霍克：而且，我们甚至不是在一起滑冰。

It's that we are communicating and influencing each other.

就是我们在互相沟通、互相影响。

The last conversation I had with Reese was, she's talking about, like, are you going to try to do 540s again?

我和 Reese 的最后一次谈话是，她说，你打算再尝试一次 540 度吗？

I go, yeah, I'm kind of working on it.

我去，是的，我正在努力。

She goes, well, I think because she saw me try one, she goes, I think you need to pull out a little more.

她说，好吧，我想因为她看到我尝试了一个，她说，我认为你需要再拿出一点。

And she was right.

她是对的。

Andrew Huberman: And she's how old again?

安德鲁·休伯曼：她又多大了？

Tony Hawk: She's ten.

托尼·霍克：她十岁了。

And I didn't even consider that because I'm just back in my mode, and I'm not taking into consideration that I don't have the snap that I had before I got hurt.

我什至没有考虑到这一点，因为我刚刚回到我的模式，而且我没有考虑到我没有受伤之前的快照。

That was one key to me making it.

这是我成功的关键之一。

But to me, that's representative of skateboarding and the inclusivity of it and the diversity of it.

但对我来说，这代表了滑板运动及其包容性和多样性。

Where it's me, I'm 55, there's 30-year-old pros that are at the top of the game.

就我而言，我已经 55 岁了，周围都是 30 岁的职业选手，他们都处于比赛的顶端。

There are 17-year-old up-and-comers, men, women, ten-year-old girl that is doing tricks that we've never even thought of or want to do.

有 17 岁的后起之秀，男人，女人，十岁的女孩，他们正在做我们从未想过或想做的事情。

And it's all part of the whole mix.

这是整个组合的一部分。

Andrew Huberman: That's really beautiful.

安德鲁·休伯曼：那真的很漂亮。

I want to ask you about memorabilia.

我想问你一些关于纪念品的事情。

Not a topic that I think about much, but I think in a prior conversation of ours, you mentioned something about this.

这不是我想太多的话题，但我想在我们之前的谈话中，你提到过一些关于这个的事情。

So there are skateboard collectors, there are people that collect stickers, skateboards.

所以有滑板收藏家，有人收集贴纸、滑板。

There's a whole market and world for this.

这有一个完整的市场和世界。

And in addition to people wanting selfies with you when they see you, I imagine there's a long history and continued tradition of people taking a pen, putting your hand, and saying, can you sign this?

除了人们在看到你时想要与你合影之外，我想人们拿起笔，把手放在你的手上，然后说，你能在上面签名吗？这有着悠久的历史和持续的传统。

Right ?

正确的 ？

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Because you are in this very small but very clearly esteemed group of people where your signature increases the value of things.

安德鲁·休伯曼：因为你在这个很小但非常受人尊敬的群体中，你的签名会增加事物的价值。

So how does that work and how does that feel?

那么它是如何运作的以及感觉如何？

Like if a skateboarder who, there are the telltale signs of who is and who isn't, right, if they walk up to you and they're like, hey, will you sign this?

就像一个滑板手，有迹象表明谁是谁不是，对吧，如果他们走到你面前，他们会说，嘿，你会签这个吗？

Do you feel good about signing it, or is that something that you refrain from?

您对签署该协议感到满意吗？还是您不愿意这样做？

And if somebody's just merely a collector, a trader, and they're trying to build their portfolio, so to speak, you can probably also sense that.

如果某人只是一个收藏家、交易员，并且他们正在尝试建立自己的投资组合，可以这么说，你也可能会感觉到这一点。

So I'm not trying to put you in the hot seat here.

所以我并不是想让你陷入困境。

Tony Hawk: Well, to answer your question, through the years, I was always open to that, and I'm happy to, especially when people are skaters or skate fans and whatnot.

托尼·霍克：嗯，回答你的问题，多年来，我一直对此持开放态度，我很高兴这样做，特别是当人们是滑冰运动员或滑冰迷之类的时候。

In the last three years, there has been this new element of resellers, of people that just go buy signature stuff.

在过去的三年里，出现了这种新的经销商因素，人们只是去购买标志性的东西。

They have nothing to do with skating.

他们与滑冰无关。

They don't care about skateboarding at all.

他们根本不关心滑板。

They just want to get my signature on an item and sell it.

他们只是想在一件物品上得到我的签名并出售它。

And they usually do it on eBay or through their own channels.

他们通常在 eBay 上或通过自己的渠道进行操作。

That's fine.

没关系。

At some point, like a few years ago, I respected the hustle.

在某些时候，就像几年前一样，我尊重这种忙碌。

These guys, they knew that I was going to be at this event.

这些人，他们知道我会参加这个活动。

Okay, they're outside waiting.

好的，他们在外面等着。

They've been waiting for hours.

他们已经等了几个小时了。

I'll sign a couple of things.

我会签署一些东西。

But in recent months, even they have figured out how to get my flight info.

但最近几个月，他们也想出了如何获取我的航班信息。

Like, some hacked into my actual airline accounts.

比如，有些人侵入了我的实际航空公司账户。

Some have sources at certain airports that get the manifests and they sell the information.

有些人在某些机场有消息来源，可以获取舱单并出售这些信息。

I found all this out because I've actually held a couple of them accountable because I said, look, I'm not going to sign this until you tell me how you knew I was going to be here.

我发现这一切是因为我实际上已经让他们中的几个人承担了责任，因为我说，听着，除非你告诉我你是如何知道我会在这里的，否则我不会签署这个。

I have no business here.

我这里没有事。

I'm here to visit family.

我来这里探望家人。

No one knows I'm coming here.

没有人知道我要来这里。

Oh, well, we saw -- Friends said they saw you at the Detroit airport.

哦，好吧，我们看到——朋友们说他们在底特律机场看到了你。

Like, no, they didn't.

就像，不，他们没有。

They wouldn't know where I'm going to anyway.

反正他们也不知道我要去哪里。

Like, well, I saw it on Twitter.

就像，好吧，我在推特上看到了它。

You didn't see it on Twitter?

你没在 Twitter 上看到吗？

I'm on Twitter.

我在推特上。

Tell me the truth.

告诉我真相。

There's a guy from TMZ that gets flight info and he sells it to us.

TMZ 有个家伙获取了航班信息，然后将其卖给了我们。

Okay, thank you.

好的，谢谢。

But that has increased to a point where it's not sustainable.

但这种情况已经发展到不可持续的地步。

I can't please everyone.

我无法取悦所有人。

The last time I flew out of Chicago, there were about 15 people.

上次我飞离芝加哥时，大约有 15 人。

One guy had a shopping cart full of skateboards and they all bum rushed me at security before I went through security thinking that I'm going to sign stuff.

一个人推着一辆装满滑板的购物车，他们在我通过安检之前就冲我去安检，以为我要签东西。

I'm like, you guys, I can't do that.

我想，你们，我做不到。

I'm going to miss my flight and I can't delineate who.

我要错过航班了，但我无法确定是谁错过了航班。

I'm sorry.

对不起。

You guys have sabotaged yourselves.

你们已经破坏了自己。

I don't know what to say.

我不知道该说什么。

And then I went through security and there were four dudes waiting at the gate.

然后我通过了安检，有四个人在门口等着。

They had bought tickets, airline tickets, so that it could be past security that they.

他们买了机票，机票，这样就可以通过安检。

Airline tickets they're not going to use to chase this.

他们不会用机票来追求这个。

Andrew Huberman: Wow.

安德鲁·休伯曼：哇。

Tony Hawk: People want my autograph, but it's weird and it's intrusive and it's kind of creepy.

托尼·霍克：人们想要我的签名，但这很奇怪，很侵入性，而且有点令人毛骨悚然。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, just tell them that a neuroscientist told you that you got to get that slob air, right?

安德鲁·胡伯曼：是的，只要告诉他们一位神经科学家告诉你，你必须得到那种邋遢的空气，对吧？

And if you sign too many autographs that you're never going to get chances --

如果你签名太多，你就永远没有机会——

Tony Hawk: Of getting it back.

托尼·霍克：把它找回来。

Andrew Huberman: You're not going to get the tuck knee.

Andrew Huberman：你不会屈膝的。

You're just not going to do the flap knee in vert.

你只是不会在垂直方向做翻膝动作。

You're just not going to get anyway.

无论如何你都不会得到。

Tony Hawk: It's just a really weird new thing that is weird that has popped up.

托尼·霍克：这只是一个非常奇怪的新事物的出现。

And other than that, the tricky part is when there is a public thing or a public exhibition or whatever to try to figure out who is the true skate fans and who aren't.

除此之外，棘手的部分是当有公共活动或公共展览或其他任何活动时，试图找出谁是真正的滑冰爱好者，谁不是。

Usually they're pretty identifiable, but it has ruined the experience for people who truly are that grew up skating.

通常它们很容易辨认，但这却毁了真正从小滑冰长大的人的体验。

Andrew Huberman: Well, thanks for sharing that.

安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯，谢谢您的分享。

And we won't tell everyone what the telltale signs are so that these people don't exploit them.

我们不会告诉所有人这些迹象是什么，以免这些人利用它们。

The skateboarders, the real fans, will know.

滑板手、真正的粉丝会知道的。

They won't have to worry about whether or not they represent accurately, because you just will.

他们不必担心自己的表述是否准确，因为您会担心。

On the positive side, something I've been wanting to learn more about from you is your philanthropic efforts.

从积极的一面来看，我一直想从您那里更多地了解您的慈善事业。

I think Kevin Rose, who's in the tech sector, was the first to mention to me that you guys have done some philanthropy together.

我认为科技行业的凯文·罗斯（Kevin Rose）是第一个向我提到你们一起做过一些慈善事业的人。

And maybe you've done some with Jim Thiebaud as well.

也许你也和 Jim Thiebaud 做过一些事情。

The great Jim Thiebaud.

伟大的吉姆·蒂博。

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

托尼·霍克：是的。

Well, both Jim and Kevin were board members.

嗯，吉姆和凯文都是董事会成员。

Jim is the current board member of the Skateboard Project.

吉姆是滑板项目的现任董事会成员。

Andrew Huberman: Tell us about the Skateboard Project.

Andrew Huberman：请给我们介绍一下滑板项目。

Tony Hawk: It's my nonprofit and we try to develop public skate parks in underserved areas, but more so by supporting the community and giving them the resources to do so.

托尼·霍克：这是我的非营利组织，我们尝试在服务不足的地区开发公共滑板公园，但更多的是通过支持社区并为他们提供资源来实现这一目标。

So groups that are trying to get skate parks in the area, we are the resource center for them.

因此，对于那些试图在该地区建立滑板公园的团体，我们是他们的资源中心。

We'll give them advice, we'll give them funding, we'll give them our stamp of approval, and that can go a long way.

我们会给他们建议，给他们资金，给他们批准，这会大有帮助。

And to date, we've helped to fund over almost 1000 skate parks now, and 700 or 800 of which are open.

迄今为止，我们已帮助资助了近 1000 个滑板公园，其中 700 或 800 个已开放。

I mean, it's my proudest work, for sure.

我的意思是，这当然是我最自豪的作品。

And it's because I never took for granted the fact that I grew up near a skate park.

这是因为我从来没有理所当然地认为我是在滑板公园附近长大的。

And that was my home away from home.

那是我的家外之家。

That was where I found my sense of community, my sense of identity.

在那里我找到了我的社区意识、我的认同感。

My crew.

我的船员们。

And so many kids choose to skateboard, but have no support in doing so.

很多孩子选择玩滑板，但却得不到支持。

And so those skate parks are a lifeline.

所以这些滑板公园是一条生命线。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I can attest.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我可以证明。

They absolutely save lives, there's no question.

他们绝对可以拯救生命，这是毫无疑问的。

Where can people find out more about your foundation?

人们可以在哪里找到有关您基金会的更多信息？

We can provide a link, but --

我们可以提供一个链接，但是——

Tony Hawk: Skatepark.org.

托尼·霍克：Skatepark.org。

Andrew Huberman: So where does the funding for these parks actually come from?

Andrew Huberman：那么这些公园的资金实际上来自哪里？

Tony Hawk: It comes from donations from supporters, it comes from fundraisers, some corporate.

托尼·霍克：它来自支持者的捐款，来自筹款活动，一些企业。

Sometimes funding is funneled through us for specific regions.

有时，资金是通过我们为特定地区输送的。

Like we have a built to play project that's in Michigan and New York, and that's funded by the Ralph C.

就像我们在密歇根和纽约有一个由 Ralph C.

Wilson, Jr Foundation.

小威尔逊基金会。

So they give us the funding and then we have to give it to that area.

所以他们给我们资金，然后我们必须把资金提供给那个领域。

But it's easy because there's plenty of projects, and now there's an abundance of skate parks in those areas.

但这很容易，因为有很多项目，而且现在这些地区有大量的滑板公园。

Andrew Huberman: Love it.

安德鲁·休伯曼：喜欢。

Thank you for doing that, for organizing around that.

感谢您所做的一切，感谢您围绕此进行组织。

Tony Hawk: And I get to get more places to skate.

托尼·霍克：我可以去更多地方滑冰。

Andrew Huberman: I'm curious what's in the immediate horizon, right these days, you probably have the option to say yes to things and no to things.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我很好奇近期会发生什么，现在，你可能可以选择对某些事情说“是”，对某些事情说“不”。

You have a family, you have your skateboard career.

你有一个家庭，你有你的滑板事业。

Where do you place your priorities in terms of how to carve up your day or your week?

在如何分配一天或一周方面，您将优先考虑的事项放在哪里？

I mean, what would you like to make sure that you do, or as much of the hours of your waking day for the next, let's just say five years.

我的意思是，你想确保你做什么，或者接下来你每天醒着的时间，我们就说五年吧。

If you want to extend that out, you can.

如果你想延长它，你可以。

Tony Hawk: Well, I want to be available to my kids first and foremost, and we still have one at home for the next four years, so I will make sure that I'm available to her.

托尼·霍克：嗯，我首先想为我的孩子们提供帮助，而且在接下来的四年里我们家里仍然有一个孩子，所以我会确保我可以为她服务。

And in terms of career, I never had great aspirations.

而在事业方面，我从来没有什么远大的抱负。

Like, I never thought, okay, this is what I want to accomplish.

就像，我从来没有想过，好吧，这就是我想要实现的目标。

It was always just very more trick-specific oriented.

它总是更加以特定技巧为导向。

So it was always like, I want to try this and this and this.

所以总是这样，我想尝试这个、这个、这个。

I would like to continue skating.

我想继续滑冰。

I don't know if I'll be able to skate at the level I'm skating right now in five years, but I know that I'll still be on the ramp.

我不知道五年后我是否能够达到现在的滑冰水平，但我知道我仍然会处于坡道上。

I may not be doing it in public, trying to advocate for public skate parks, doing more with the foundation and whatever.

我可能不会在公共场合这样做，尝试倡导公共滑板公园，为基金会做更多事情等等。

I think the way I prioritize my time is what will resonate the furthest and have the best impact on skateboarding in general.

我认为我优先考虑时间的方式是最能引起共鸣并对滑板运动产生最大影响的方式。

I do feel that I've come to a point where, yes, I'm some unofficial ambassador to skateboarding, and I want to represent it well.

我确实觉得我已经到了这样一个地步：是的，我是滑板运动的非官方大使，我想很好地代表它。

I want to be fair in that skateboarding is all kinds of different things.

公平地说，滑板是各种各样不同的事情。

It's not just X Games or Olympics or whatnot.

这不仅仅是极限运动会或奥运会之类的。

It represents a true culture, and I want to project that as much as I can and make sure that people understand that that's also positive.

它代表了一种真正的文化，我想尽我所能地展示这一点，并确保人们理解这也是积极的。

Really, everything that I'm doing now is just kind of fun.

真的，我现在所做的一切都很有趣。

I would say in the last five to ten years is the first time I've truly enjoyed what skateboarding has provided me in terms of opportunity and what it brings to me and what it means to my family.

我想说，在过去的五到十年里，这是我第一次真正享受滑板为我提供的机会、它给我带来的东西以及它对我的家人的意义。

I have a much better appreciation, understanding for it.

我对它有了更好的欣赏和理解。

And these days, it's just like everything's kind of just gravy.

如今，一切都像是肉汁一样。

It's just so fun.

真是太有趣了。

I can't believe I could still do it for a living.

我不敢相信我还能以此为生。

It's crazy.

太疯狂了。

I'm 55 years old, and I truly ride my skateboard as a career.

我今年 55 岁了，我确实把滑板当成一种职业。

Like, that's nuts, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

就像，这太疯狂了，我不会有任何其他方式。

Andrew Huberman: Well, it certainly is earned.

Andrew Huberman：嗯，这当然是赚来的。

And I just want to say thank you for a number of things.

我只想对很多事情表示感谢。

First of all, thank you for going to the skate park.

首先，感谢您来到滑板公园。

Thank you for picking this trajectory.

感谢您选择这条轨迹。

Thank you for inspiring me and so many other young people and old people, older people over so many decades now, both with what you did on a skateboard and off the skateboard, and including your resilience and determination to push and continue to progress to the point where you were badly injured, and then to push through that, come back, at least match what you did previously, and I would wager that you will exceed your prior skill level going forward.

感谢你们激励了我和许多其他年轻人、老年人、老年人，几十年来，无论是在滑板上还是在滑板外，你们的韧性和决心，推动并继续进步，直到你们受了重伤，然后克服这一点，回来，至少与你们以前所做的一样，我敢打赌，你们未来的技能水平将会超过你们之前的水平。

So I want to thank you for your resilience.

所以我要感谢你的韧性。

I know it comes from an intrinsic drive, your love of skateboarding.

我知道它来自于内在的动力，你对滑板的热爱。

It just absolutely comes through.

它绝对成功了。

I share in some of that, of course, having grown up in it, but not nearly as much as you, but also just your willingness to stretch out into these different areas, like the video game thing or talk about X Games, the Olympics, because that did allow for a lot of growth and lateral movement of skateboarding.

当然，我也认同其中的一些观点，因为我是在其中长大的，但不像你那么多，但也只是你愿意扩展到这些不同的领域，比如电子游戏或谈论极限运动、奥运会，因为这确实让滑板运动有了很大的发展和横向移动。

And at the same time, just as you said, to bring it right back to the fact that skateboarding isn't one thing.

与此同时，正如你所说，让我们回到滑板不是一回事这一事实。

It is not like other sports.

它不像其他运动。

It's its own sport, and it's its own lifestyle.

这是它自己的运动，也是它自己的生活方式。

It's its own thing.

这是它自己的事。

And we do consider you the ambassador for skateboarding and --

我们确实认为你是滑板运动的大使——

Tony Hawk: I appreciate it.

托尼·霍克：我很感激。

Andrew Huberman: I speak for many people, and I say that we're very grateful that you are, because you bring that shrewdness and that prudence to it, but also that get after it punk rock spirit and the goodness that your parents instilled in you clearly comes through everything from the philanthropy and onward.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我代表很多人发言，我说我们非常感谢你，因为你带来了精明和谨慎，而且还带来了朋克摇滚精神和你父母灌输给你的善良，这显然来自于慈善事业及以后的一切。

So I can't say enough positive things or express enough gratitude for what you've done and for your time here.

因此，我无法对你们所做的一切和在这里度过的时光说足够多的积极的话或表达足够的感激之情。

Your legacy in skateboarding, but also just in the game of life, is clearly cemented.

您在滑板运动以及生活游戏中的遗产显然得到了巩固。

So thank you.

所以谢谢你。

Tony Hawk: Oh, thank you.

托尼·霍克：哦，谢谢。

And I appreciate that the ethos of skateboarding shines through on your show and just your crew here, clearly a lot of them come from the skateboard world, so you're still supporting it, whether you know it or not.

我很欣赏滑板精神在你的节目和这里的工作人员中闪耀，显然他们中的很多人都来自滑板世界，所以无论你是否知道，你仍然支持它。

Andrew Huberman: Thanks so much, and hopefully you'll come back and we'll do it again.

Andrew Huberman：非常感谢，希望您能回来，我们会再做一次。

Tony Hawk: All right, sounds good.

托尼·霍克：好吧，听起来不错。

Andrew Huberman: Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Tony Hawk.

Andrew Huberman：感谢您参加今天与托尼·霍克的讨论。

If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.

如果您正在学习或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。

That's a terrific, zero-cost way to support us.

这是支持我们的绝佳且零成本的方式。

In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on Spotify and Apple, and on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.

此外，请订阅 Spotify 和 Apple 上的播客，在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们留下五星级的评论。

If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests that you'd like me to consider hosting on the Huberman Lab Podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.

如果您对我有疑问或对您希望我考虑在 Huberman 实验室播客上主持的播客或嘉宾有意见，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。

I do read all the comments.

我确实阅读了所有评论。

Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.

另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。

That's the best way to support this podcast, not on today's podcast, but on many previous episodes of the Huberman Lab podcast.

这是支持这个播客的最佳方式，不是在今天的播客上，而是在胡伯曼实验室播客的许多以前的剧集上。

We discuss supplements — while supplements aren't necessary for everybody, many people derive tremendous benefit from them for things like improving sleep, hormone support and focus.

我们讨论补充剂——虽然补充剂并不是每个人都需要的，但许多人从它们中获得了巨大的好处，例如改善睡眠、激素支持和注意力集中。

The Huberman Lab podcast has partnered with Momentous supplements.

Huberman Lab 播客与 Momentous 补充剂合作。

If you'd like to access the supplements discussed on the Huberman Lab podcast, you can go to livemomentous, spelled O-U-S.

如果您想访问 Huberman Lab 播客上讨论的补充内容，您可以访问 livemomentous，拼写为 O-U-S。

So it's livemomentous.com/huberman, and you can also receive 20% off.

所以它是 livemomentous.com/huberman，您还可以获得 20% 的折扣。

Again, that's livemomentous, spelled O-U-S.com/huberman.

再次强调，这很生动，拼写为 O-U-S.com/huberman。

If you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, our Neural Network Newsletter is a completely zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes summaries of podcast episodes as well as protocols, that is, short PDFs describing, for instance, tools to improve sleep, tools to improve neuroplasticity.

如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，我们的神经网络时事通讯是完全零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客剧集和协议的摘要，即描述改善睡眠的工具、改善神经可塑性的工具等的简短 PDF。

We talk about deliberate cold exposure, fitness, various aspects of mental health, again, all completely zero-cost.

我们再次谈论刻意的寒冷暴露、健身、心理健康的各个方面，所有这些都是完全零成本的。

And to sign up, you simply go to hubermanlab.com, go over to the menu in the corner, scroll down to newsletter, and provide your email.

要注册，您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到角落的菜单，向下滚动到时事通讯，然后提供您的电子邮件。

We do not share your email with anybody.

我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。

If you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all platforms.

如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有平台上的 hubermanlab。

So that's Instagram, Twitter threads, Linkedin, and Facebook.

这就是 Instagram、Twitter 帖子、Linkedin 和 Facebook。

And at all of those places I talk about science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the content of the Huberman Lab podcast.

在所有这些地方，我都谈论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容不同。

Again, it's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.

再说一遍，所有社交媒体平台上都是 hubermanlab。

Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Tony Hawk.

感谢您参加今天与托尼·霍克的讨论。

And last, but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.

最后但同样重要的是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。