The Science of Love, Desire and Attachment
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
Today, we are going to talk about the psychology and the biology of desire, love, and attachment.
今天，我们将讨论欲望、爱和依恋的心理学和生物学。
Today, happens to be Valentine's Day, 2022.
今天，恰巧是 2022 年情人节。
However, the themes we are going to discuss pertain to desire, love, and attachment on any given day.
然而，我们要讨论的主题与任何一天的欲望、爱和依恋有关。
And indeed, the mechanisms we are going to discuss almost certainly were at play thousands of years ago, hundreds of years ago, and no doubt will still be at play in our minds and in our bodies and in our psychologies for the decade, centuries, and thousands of years to come.
事实上，我们将要讨论的机制几乎肯定在几千年前、几百年前就已经发挥作用，并且毫无疑问在未来的十年、几个世纪和几千年里仍然会在我们的思想、我们的身体和我们的心理中发挥作用。
Indeed, today, I want to focus on core mechanisms that lead individuals to seek out other individuals with whom to mate with, with whom to have children with, or not, with whom to enter short or long-term relationships with, and perhaps to end those relationships or to seek relationships on the side, so-called infidelity.
事实上，今天，我想重点关注核心机制，这些机制导致个人寻找其他人与之交配，与谁生孩子，或不与谁建立短期或长期关系，也许结束这些关系或寻求副业，即所谓的不忠。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm certainly not going to encourage or discourage any of these behaviors.
我当然不会鼓励或阻止任何这些行为。
I'm simply going to cover the peer-reviewed scientific data on all these aspects of desire, love, and attachment.
我只是要介绍有关欲望、爱和依恋所有这些方面的经过同行评审的科学数据。
I'm going to discuss how our childhood attachment styles, as they're called, influence our adult attachment styles.
我将讨论我们的童年依恋风格（所谓的）如何影响我们的成人依恋风格。
Yes, you heard that right.
是的，你没听错。
How we attached or did not attach to primary caregivers in our childhood has much to do with how we attach or fail to attach to romantic partners as adults because the same neural circuits, the neurons and their connections in the brain and body that underlie attachment between infant and caregiver, between toddler and parent or other caregiver, and during adolescence and in our teenage years, are repurposed for adult romantic attachments.
我们在童年时期对主要照顾者的依恋或不依恋，与我们成年后如何依恋或不依恋浪漫伴侣有很大关系，因为婴儿和照顾者之间、幼儿和父母或其他照顾者之间、青春期和十几岁的时候，大脑和身体中构成依恋的神经回路、神经元及其在大脑和身体中的连接，都被重新用于成人浪漫依恋。
I know that might be a little eerie to think about, but, indeed, that is true.
我知道这可能有点奇怪，但确实如此。
Now, the fortunate thing is that, regardless of our childhood attachment styles and experiences, the neural circuits for desire, love, and attachment are quite plastic.
现在，幸运的是，无论我们童年的依恋风格和经历如何，欲望、爱和依恋的神经回路都是相当可塑的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They are amenable to change in response to both what we think and what we feel, as well, as what we do.
他们愿意根据我们的想法和感受以及我们的行为而做出改变。
However, all three aspects that we are discussing today, desire, love, and attachment, are also strongly biologically driven.
然而，我们今天讨论的所有三个方面，欲望、爱和执着，也是强烈的生物学驱动的。
We are going to talk about biological mechanisms such as hormones, biological mechanisms such as neurochemicals, things like dopamine, oxytocin, and serotonin, and neural circuits, brain areas, and, indeed, areas of the body that interact with the brain that control whether or not we desire somebody or not, whether or not we lose or increase our desire for somebody over time, whether or not we fall in love, what love means, and whether or not the relationships we form continue to include the elements of desire and love over time or not.
我们将讨论荷尔蒙等生物机制，神经化学物质等生物机制，多巴胺、催产素和血清素等生物机制，以及神经回路、大脑区域，以及与大脑相互作用的身体区域，这些区域控制我们是否渴望某个人，我们是否随着时间的推移失去或增加对某人的渴望，我们是否坠入爱河，爱意味着什么，以及我们形成的关系是否随着时间的推移继续包含欲望和爱的元素或不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In order to illustrate just how powerfully our biology can shape our perception of the attractiveness of other people, I want to share with you the results of a couple of studies.
为了说明我们的生物学如何强大地影响我们对其他人吸引力的看法，我想与您分享几项研究的结果。
Both studies explore how people rate other people's attractiveness, and in both studies, the major variable is that women are at different stages of their menstrual cycle.
这两项研究都探讨了人们如何评价他人的吸引力，在这两项研究中，主要变量是女性处于月经周期的不同阶段。
Now, in the first study, men are rating the attractiveness of women according to the smell of those women.
现在，在第一项研究中，男性根据女性的气味来评估女性的吸引力。
Now, they're not smelling them directly, they're smelling clothing that women wore for a couple of days at different phases of their menstrual cycle.
现在，他们不再直接闻它们，而是闻女性在月经周期不同阶段穿了几天的衣服。
And what they find is that men will rate the odors of women as most attractive if those women wore those shirts, that clothing, in the preovulatory phase of their cycle.
他们发现，如果女性在月经周期的排卵前阶段穿着那些衬衫、那些衣服，男性就会认为女性的气味最具吸引力。
Okay?
好的？
So this is not to say that men do not find women attractive at other stages of their cycle.
因此，这并不是说男性在月经周期的其他阶段不觉得女性有吸引力。
It is to say that men find women's odors particularly attractive if those odors were worn by women that are in the preovulatory phase of their menstrual cycle.
也就是说，如果处于月经周期排卵前阶段的女性身上有女性的气味，男性会觉得女性的气味特别有吸引力。
Okay?
好的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, there was also a study that was done where women at different stages of their menstrual cycle are rating the odors of men.
现在，还进行了一项研究，女性在月经周期的不同阶段对男性的气味进行评分。
And a similar but mirror symmetric result was found, such that women who are in the preovulatory phase of their menstrual cycle will rate men's odors as more attractive than at other stages of their cycle.
还发现了类似但镜像对称的结果，即处于月经周期排卵前阶段的女性会认为男性的气味比周期其他阶段更具吸引力。
So the simple way to put this is that there seems to be something special about the preovulatory phase of a woman's menstrual cycle that makes men rate them as more attractive during that time, and women rate men as more attractive during that particular time, as well.
因此，简单地说，女性月经周期的排卵前阶段似乎有一些特殊之处，使得男性在这段时间内认为她们更具吸引力，而女性也认为男性在该特定时间段更具吸引力。
So this is a bidirectional effect.
所以这是一个双向效应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The way that the second study was done, where women are rating men, was not just to smell the odors of those men on T-shirts.
第二项研究的方式是，女性对男性进行评分，而不仅仅是闻 T 恤上男性的气味。
They did that, but they correlated that with whether or not the shirts were worn by men that were particularly physically symmetrical.
他们这样做了，但他们将这与这些衬衫是否由身体特别对称的男性穿着相关。
They actually had these men divided into groups.
他们实际上把这些人分成了几组。
It was more of a continuum rather, rated according to body symmetry and face symmetry, and women preferred more-symmetrical men when they were doing the preference test during the preovulatory phase of their cycle.
相反，它更像是一个连续体，根据身体对称性和面部对称性进行评级，并且女性在周期的排卵前阶段进行偏好测试时更喜欢更对称的男性。
So, again, the point is that that preovulatory phase of the cycle seems to create a bidirectional mutual attractiveness.
因此，重点是周期的排卵前阶段似乎会产生双向的相互吸引力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, also extremely interesting is that this effect does really seem to have something to do with ovulation because in both studies, they had women that were taking oral contraception or not, and what they found was if a woman is taking oral contraception, it prevented that peak and perceived attractiveness by the men.
现在，同样非常有趣的是，这种效应似乎确实与排卵有关，因为在这两项研究中，女性是否服用口服避孕药，他们发现，如果女性服用口服避孕药，就会阻止男性达到峰值和感知到的吸引力。
Meaning, men no longer perceived a woman to be more attractive at a particular phase of their cycle.
这意味着，男性不再认为女性在其周期的特定阶段更具吸引力。
And also, women taking oral contraception no longer preferred the odors of more-symmetrical men during the preovulatory phase of their cycle.
此外，服用口服避孕药的女性在月经周期的排卵前阶段不再喜欢更对称的男性的气味。
Now, I want to make sure that it's especially clear that it is not the case that oral contraception reduced the perception of a woman as attractive.
现在，我想确保特别清楚的是，口服避孕药并没有降低女性吸引力的看法。
That did not happen in these studies.
在这些研究中并没有发生这种情况。
It reduced the further increase in a male's perception of her as attractive, and if women took oral contraception, it prevented them from preferring more-symmetrical men, based on the odors of those men.
它减少了男性对她的吸引力的进一步增加，如果女性服用口服避孕药，它会阻止她们根据男性的气味来选择更对称的男性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, I realize there are a lot of variables here.
现在，我意识到这里有很多变数。
We've got odors, we've got symmetry, we've got menstrual cycle, preovulatory, nonpreovulatory, and we have whether or not people are taking contraception or not.
我们有气味，我们有对称性，我们有月经周期，排卵前，非排卵前，我们还有人们是否采取避孕措施。
But the basic finding is that depending on where women are in their menstrual cycle influences both men's perception of them as attractive and their perception of men as attractive, and oral contraception eliminates that effect.
但基本发现是，女性在月经周期中所处的位置会影响男性对她们的吸引力的看法，也会影响男性对男性吸引力的看法，而口服避孕药消除了这种影响。
So I share with you those data to illustrate that we often think that somebody is attractive or not, based on, I don't know how, they look, their skin, their hair, et cetera but it also illustrates that their odor is a powerful cue for some people more than others.
因此，我与大家分享这些数据是为了说明，我们经常根据（我不知道如何）某人的外表、皮肤、头发等来判断某人是否有吸引力，但这也说明了，他们的气味对某些人来说比其他人更能提供强有力的暗示。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some of us tend to be more olfactory-driven than others, although if you watched the Huberman Lab podcast episode that I did with Professor David Buss, from the University of Texas, Austin, who is a luminary in the field of evolutionary psychology and has studied mate choice and mate selection bias over decades.
我们中的一些人往往比其他人更受嗅觉驱动，尽管如果你观看了我与德克萨斯大学奥斯汀分校的大卫·巴斯教授一起制作的休伯曼实验室播客节目，他是进化心理学领域的杰出人物，几十年来一直在研究配偶选择和配偶选择偏见。
He's really one of the founders of that field.
他确实是该领域的创始人之一。
He emphasized findings that odor for many people is a maker or a deal breaker.
他强调研究结果表明，对于许多人来说，气味既是交易的促成者，也是交易的破坏者。
Meaning, there are some people that, even if somebody has all the characteristics that they're looking for in terms of kindness and attractiveness and values and other features that would and should be a very high priority in selecting a mate, that if someone does not like the way that person smells, their innate body odor independent of colognes and perfumes and soaps, et cetera that that's often a complete and total deal breaker.
意思是说，有些人认为，即使某人拥有他们所寻找的所有特征，包括善良、吸引力、价值观和其他特征，这些特征在选择伴侣时将并且应该成为非常重要的优先事项，但如果某人不喜欢这个人的气味，他们天生的体味独立于古龙水、香水和肥皂，等等，这通常会彻底破坏交易。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm sure there are some of you that can relate to that, and there are some of you, perhaps, for which that is not the case, and you can't even imagine that being such a powerful variable.
我确信你们中的一些人可能会涉及到这一点，但也许你们中的一些人并非如此，您甚至无法想象这是一个如此强大的变量。
And yet, the data suggests that indeed it is a powerful variable for many people out there.
然而，数据表明，对于许多人来说，这确实是一个强大的变量。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's talk about desire, love, and attachment.
我们来谈谈欲望、爱和执着。
And of course, these are topics that grab tremendous interest, so it's worth us defining our terms a little bit before going any further.
当然，这些主题引起了极大的兴趣，因此值得我们在进一步讨论之前稍微定义一下我们的术语。
Of course, we can have many different kinds of loves.
当然，我们可以有很多种不同的爱。
There's romantic love, there's love of family — so-called familial love.
有浪漫的爱情，有家庭的爱——所谓的亲情。
There's love of pets.
有对宠物的喜爱。
We can even love objects, or we can feel as if we love objects.
我们甚至可以爱物体，或者我们可以感觉好像我们爱物体。
We can love certain activities.
我们可以喜欢某些活动。
We can have friends that we love, and so on and so forth.
我们可以有我们所爱的朋友，等等。
The word love is used to encompass a lot of different types of relationships.
爱这个词用来涵盖许多不同类型的关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Today, we are mainly going to be focused on romantic love and the neural mechanisms of romantic love.
今天我们主要关注浪漫爱情以及浪漫爱情的神经机制。
I want to acknowledge here at the outset that most of the studies of romantic love have focused on monogamous heterosexual love.
我首先要承认，大多数浪漫爱情的研究都集中在一夫一妻制的异性恋上。
And also, when we talk about studies focused on desire and attractiveness and attachment, that's also the case, and that simply reflects the general bias of the literature over the last 50 to 100 years.
而且，当我们谈论关注欲望、吸引力和依恋的研究时，情况也是如此，这只是反映了过去 50 到 100 年来文献的普遍偏见。
It does, of course, not rule out that similar or different mechanisms could be at play in nonmonogamous relationships, in homosexual relationships, or in relationships of any kind or variation.
当然，它并不排除类似或不同的机制可能在非一夫一妻制关系、同性恋关系或任何种类或变异的关系中发挥作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's also worth us defining our terms around desire.
我们也值得围绕欲望定义我们的术语。
It can mean lust.
它可能意味着欲望。
It can mean the desire for long-term partnership.
这可能意味着对长期合作伙伴关系的渴望。
So we need to define our terms, and throughout I will do my best to very carefully define what I mean by desire, what I mean by love, and what I mean by attachment.
所以我们需要定义我们的术语，自始至终我都会尽我最大的努力来非常仔细地定义我所说的欲望、我所说的爱和我所说的依恋。
The formal study of love and desire and attachment goes back to the early 1900s.
对爱、欲望和依恋的正式研究可以追溯到 1900 年代初期。
One of the classic studies on this is entitled "Love and Desire." It was published in 1912 and really focused on two opposing themes within romance.
关于这一点的经典研究之一是《爱与欲望》。它出版于 1912 年，真正关注浪漫主义中的两个对立主题。
One is love, which in that paper was really meant to include attachment and dependence or interdependence between individuals, right?
一是爱，在那篇论文中，它的真正含义是包括个体之间的依恋和依赖或相互依赖，对吗？
And the other end of the spectrum being desire or the sexual desire for another.
光谱的另一端是对他人的欲望或性欲。
And romance was meant to encapsulate both those things, love and desire.
浪漫就是要概括这些东西：爱和欲望。
And for much of the 1900s, it was thought that love and desire were on sort of opposing ends or in kind of a push-pull, and it was the dynamic push and pull between love and desire that one could define romance.
在 1900 年代的大部分时间里，人们认为爱和欲望是对立的，或者是推拉的，而正是爱和欲望之间的动态推拉才可以定义浪漫。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that actually led to much of what's out there in the psychological literature.
这实际上导致了心理学文献中的大部分内容。
Today, we are going to explore some neurobiological studies, some studies of the endocrine system, meaning the hormone system, that actually support that general model.
今天，我们将探讨一些神经生物学研究，一些内分泌系统（即激素系统）的研究，这些研究实际上支持了这个一般模型。
And I'll point you toward what I think is a very useful book in thinking about how relationships can both form and last over long periods of time and how those relationships can include both desire and interdependence.
我将向您推荐一本我认为非常有用的书，它可以帮助您思考关系如何形成并长期持续，以及这些关系如何包含欲望和相互依赖。
I'll also talk about some studies that have really focused on why relationships succeed and why they fail, and how that relates to whether or not there are sufficient amounts of attachment and desire.
我还将讨论一些研究，这些研究真正关注人际关系为何成功和失败，以及这与是否有足够的依恋和欲望之间的关系。
So today we're going to talk about the science, and indeed, you'll also get some tools.
所以今天我们要谈谈科学，事实上，你也会得到一些工具。
Those tools should be useful to you, whether or not you happen to be in a relationship or not, whether or not you're seeking a relationship or not.
这些工具应该对您有用，无论您是否处于恋爱关系中，无论您是否正在寻求恋爱关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to begin with an anecdote, and this is not an anecdote about my relationship history.
我想从一件轶事开始，这不是关于我的恋爱史的轶事。
It's a anecdote about my scientific history.
这是关于我的科学史的轶事。
When I started graduate school, the chairman of the department I was in at the time said to me, "You know, most PhDs last longer than most marriages." And indeed, he was right.
当我开始读研究生时，当时我所在系的系主任对我说：“你知道，大多数博士学位比大多数婚姻持续得更久。”事实上，他是对的。
And also, most marriages in this country end in divorce.
而且，这个国家的大多数婚姻都以离婚告终。
I think it's about 50%, with a slight skew toward more ending in divorce than persist until "death do them part." But nonetheless, it's about half.
我认为这个比例大约是 50%，稍微倾向于以离婚告终，而不是坚持到“死亡将他们分开”。但尽管如此，也只有一半左右。
And most marriages end before the eight-year period is up.
大多数婚姻在八年期限结束之前就结束了。
Most PhDs take anywhere from four to nine years.
大多数博士学位需要四到九年的时间。
So there was a bit of a smearing of averages there, but the point he was trying to make really landed home for me.
因此，这里的平均值有些模糊，但他试图表达的观点对我来说确实很重要。
It did not scare me of out of relationships, nor did it scare me out of a PhD, obviously.
显然，它并没有吓到我放弃人际关系，也没有吓到我放弃博士学位。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What it did illustrate was that there's something about our attachment machinery that can be very, very compelling, such that people take on tremendous levels of commitment.
它确实说明了我们的依恋机制中存在一些非常非常引人注目的东西，因此人们会做出巨大的承诺。
I have to imagine that most people enter marriages assuming that they're going to stay in those marriages.
我不得不想象，大多数人在结婚时都假设他们会维持这种婚姻。
I don't think most people enter marriages thinking they're going to get divorced, but that if 50% of those commitments end in divorce, there must also be mechanisms by which our attachments can break.
我不认为大多数人在结婚时就认为他们会离婚，但如果 50% 的承诺以离婚告终，那么也必须有一些机制可以打破我们的依恋。
And today we're going to talk about both the forming of attachments and the breaking of attachments, what can prevent those breaks in attachments, and indeed, what can lead to reattachments.
今天我们要讨论执着的形成和执着的破除，什么可以防止执着的破除，以及什么可以导致重新执着。
There are biological mechanisms to desire, love and attachment.
欲望、爱和依恋都有生物机制。
That's abundantly clear.
这非常清楚。
Now, there's a robust and very large literature in animal models.
现在，关于动物模型有大量可靠且大量的文献。
What I mean by that are field studies and laboratory studies in primates of different kinds such as macaque monkeys or bonobos.
我的意思是对不同种类的灵长类动物（如猕猴或倭黑猩猩）进行实地研究和实验室研究。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
People have looked at these sorts of things, believe or not, in ducks, in laboratory mice, in different types of birds, et cetera.
不管你信不信，人们已经在鸭子、实验室老鼠、不同类型的鸟类等身上观察过这些事情。
And if you look at that literature, you can essentially find biological examples in the animal kingdom for just about any behavior that you can easily map to human behavior.
如果你查看这些文献，你基本上可以在动物王国中找到任何可以轻松映射到人类行为的行为的生物学例子。
So for instance, there's a species of animal called the prairie vole.
举例来说，有一种动物叫做草原田鼠。
In one portion of the United States, this prairie vole species is monogamous.
在美国的一部分地区，这种草原田鼠物种是一夫一妻制的。
They only mate with one other prairie vole, only raise young with one other prairie vole for their entire life.
它们一生只与另一只草原田鼠交配，只与另一只草原田鼠一起抚养幼崽。
And in another region of the United States, the same species of animal, the prairie vole, will mate with many individuals.
在美国的另一个地区，同一种动物——草原田鼠——会与许多个体交配。
They're nonmonogamous.
他们是非一夫一妻制的。
And the major difference, at least as far as we know, between the prairie voles in one location and another location, is the levels of a molecule called vasopressin in the brain and body.
至少据我们所知，一个地点和另一个地点的草原田鼠之间的主要区别在于大脑和身体中一种称为加压素的分子的水平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Vasopressin is present in humans.
加压素存在于人类体内。
It has numerous biological roles.
它具有许多生物学作用。
It's responsible, for instance, for controlling the amount of urine that you excrete, the amount of water that you retain, and for sexual desire as well as mate seeking.
例如，它负责控制排泄的尿液量、保留的水量、性欲以及寻找配偶。
Levels of vasopressin in prairie voles are strongly determinant of whether or not a prairie vole is going to be monogamous or nonmonogamous.
草原田鼠体内加压素的水平很大程度上决定了草原田鼠是一夫一妻制还是非一夫一妻制。
Why do I raise this?
我为什么要提出这个问题？
Well, I raise this because the literature on prairie voles is quite beautiful and has been discussed quite a lot in the popular press.
嗯，我提出这个问题是因为有关草原田鼠的文献非常精彩，并且在大众媒体上进行了很多讨论。
You can look it up with easily, just web engine search.
您只需通过网络引擎搜索即可轻松查找。
You'll find lots of information about this, lots of news articles about this, and lots of interpretations as to how vasopressin might be involved in similar or different mechanisms in humans.
您会找到大量有关此的信息、大量有关此的新闻文章，以及关于加压素如何参与人类相似或不同机制的大量解释。
Now, I don't have a problem with mapping animal studies to humans.
现在，我对将动物研究映射到人类没有问题。
I think there's certainly a place for that.
我认为这肯定有一席之地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But if you just sort of lean back and look at the giant mass of studies in animals and their mating behavior and their mate selection behavior, you can essentially find examples of anything.
但如果你稍微放松一下，看看对动物及其交配行为和择偶行为的大量研究，你基本上可以找到任何例子。
You can find examples of polygamy, you can find examples of cheating, of infidelity.
你可以找到一夫多妻制的例子，你可以找到欺骗、不忠的例子。
You can find examples of all sorts of different behaviors that in your own mind you can map to human behavior.
您可以找到各种不同行为的示例，您可以在自己的脑海中将其映射到人类行为。
But it's really hard to make the leap from animal models to humans in any kind of direct way.
但以任何直接方式从动物模型跨越到人类确实很难。
And so thankfully, there's been tremendous work done in the last mainly 20 years or so, looking at human mate selection, human desire, human love, and human attachment.
值得庆幸的是，在过去大约 20 年左右的时间里，人们在人类的择偶、人类的欲望、人类的爱和人类的依恋方面做了大量的工作。
So we're mainly going to focus on those studies today, and, where appropriate, we will map those findings back to the findings in animals to see if there's some universal truths or some universal principles about how the neural circuits and biological mechanisms work.
因此，我们今天主要关注这些研究，并且在适当的情况下，我们会将这些发现映射回动物身上的发现，看看是否存在一些关于神经回路和生物机制如何工作的普遍真理或普遍原则。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But by and large, we're going to focus on human studies today.
但总的来说，我们今天将重点关注人类研究。
So unless I say otherwise, the data that I'm referring to today are entirely from human beings.
所以除非我另有说明，我今天所指的数据完全来自人类。
So let's talk about attachment and attachment styles.
那么我们来谈谈依恋和依恋风格。
And this will offer you the opportunity to answer some important questions for yourself, such as what is my, meaning your, attachment style in relationship.
这将使您有机会为自己回答一些重要问题，例如关系中我的（即您的）依恋风格是什么。
One of the most robust findings in the field of psychology is this notion of attachment styles.
心理学领域最有力的发现之一就是依恋风格的概念。
And this was something that was discovered through a beautiful set of studies that were done by Mary Ainsworth in the 1980s, in which she developed a laboratory condition called the Strange Situation task.
这是玛丽·安斯沃斯 (Mary Ainsworth) 在 20 世纪 80 年代所做的一系列精彩研究中发现的，她在其中开发了一种名为“奇怪情况任务”的实验室条件。
Now, the Strange Situation task has been studied over and over again in different cultures, in different locations throughout the world.
现在，“奇怪的情况”任务已在世界各地不同的文化、不同的地点被反复研究。
And in preparing for this episode, I actually spoke to three different psychologists.
在准备这一集的过程中，我实际上采访了三位不同的心理学家。
I spoke to a psychoanalyst.
我和一位精神分析师交谈过。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I spoke to a cognitive behavioral psychologist, and I actually spoke to a psychiatrist — excuse me, not a psychologist, but a psychiatrist with a medical degree — and asked, "Is the Strange Situation task and the various attachment styles that emerge from that task, are those still considered valid?" And indeed, all three of them said if ever there was a literature in psychology that is absolutely tamped down and has a firm basis in both data and real-world principles and real-world examples, it's this notion of attachment styles.
我和一位认知行为心理学家交谈过，实际上我和一位精神病学家交谈过——对不起，不是心理学家，而是一位拥有医学学位的精神病学家——并问道：“奇怪情境任务以及该任务中出现的各种依恋风格是否仍然被认为是有效的？”事实上，他们三人都表示，如果有一种心理学文献是绝对被压制的，并且在数据、现实世界的原则和现实世界的例子中都有坚实的基础，那就是依恋风格的概念。
So what is the Strange Situation task?
那么奇怪的情况任务是什么？
The Strange Situation task involves a parent, typically a mother, in the studies that were done, but a parent or other caregiver bringing their child, their actual child into a laboratory.
奇怪情况任务涉及父母，通常是母亲，参与已完成的研究，但父母或其他看护者将他们的孩子（他们真正的孩子）带入实验室。
And there's a room with a stranger, and the mother enters the room with the child, and there's some toys in the room, and typically the mother and the stranger will talk.
有一个房间里有一个陌生人，母亲带着孩子进入房间，房间里有一些玩具，通常母亲和陌生人会说话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Obviously, the stranger is part of the experiment.
显然，陌生人是实验的一部分。
It's not just some random person off the street.
这不仅仅是街上某个随机的人。
And the child is allowed to move about the room.
孩子可以在房间里走动。
They can observe the mother interacting with the other person or not.
他们可以观察母亲是否与他人互动。
They can play with toys or not.
他们可以玩玩具，也可以不玩。
But then at some point the mother leaves, and then at some point later, designated by the experimenter, the mother comes back.
但在某个时刻，母亲离开了，然后在实验者指定的某个时刻，母亲又回来了。
And what is measured in these studies is both how the child, the toddler, reacts to the mother leaving and how the child reacts to the mother returning at the end of the experiment.
这些研究测量的是孩子（幼儿）对母亲离开的反应，以及孩子对实验结束后母亲回来的反应。
And oftentimes this will have two or three different phases, where the mother will bring the child in, then leave, then come back in and leave.
通常，这会分为两个或三个不同的阶段，母亲将孩子带进来，然后离开，然后再回来并离开。
There are also studies in which the behavior of the child with the stranger is also examined.
还有一些研究还检查了孩子与陌生人相处时的行为。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there are a lot of variations of this, but the basic findings are that toddlers, children, fall into four different categories of attachment style, and that these attachment styles can predict many features of adolescent, teen, young adult, and even adult attachment styles, not in strange situations of the sort that I just described, but in romantic attachments.
因此，这方面有很多变化，但基本的发现是，幼儿、儿童可以分为四种不同的依恋风格类别，这些依恋风格可以预测青少年、青少年、青年甚至成人依恋风格的许多特征，不是在我刚才描述的那种奇怪的情况下，而是在浪漫的依恋中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I should mention also that attachment style is plastic, meaning it can change across the lifespan.
我还应该提到，依恋风格是可塑的，这意味着它可以在整个生命周期中发生变化。
So as I describe the results, I describe the different attachment styles that are out there.
因此，当我描述结果时，我描述了现有的不同依恋风格。
And if any of those resonate with you or bring to mind certain people in your life, please do not assume that those attachment styles are rigid and fixed for the entire lifespan.
如果其中任何一个与您产生共鸣或让您想起生活中的某些人，请不要认为这些依恋方式是僵化的并且在整个生命周期中都是固定的。
There are also terrific data that indicate that through specific processes, both psychological and some biological adjustments, that people can change their attachment style, and that, indeed, people who have different attachment styles can change the attachment styles of others.
还有一些很棒的数据表明，通过特定的过程，包括心理和某些生物的调整，人们可以改变他们的依恋风格，而且确实，具有不同依恋风格的人可以改变他人的依恋风格。
But just to make very clear what the results of the study were, I want to review what the four different attachment styles are, and typically people fall into one group or another, but not several.
但为了弄清楚研究的结果是什么，我想回顾一下四种不同的依恋风格是什么，通常人们会分为一组或另一组，而不是几种。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the four patterns of attachment that were revealed by these studies, again, were revealed by examining the behavior of the child in response to the mother leaving and the mother returning, and the child's response to the stranger that is in the room with them.
因此，这些研究揭示的四种依恋模式再次是通过检查孩子对母亲离开和母亲返回的反应以及孩子对与他们一起在房间里的陌生人的反应来揭示的。
The first style is the so-called secure attachment style.
第一种样式是所谓的安全附件样式。
In the nomenclature of this kind of study, these are the so-called B babies, as in the letter B, bulldog B — not for bulldogs, but just to designate this category.
在此类研究的命名法中，这些是所谓的 B 婴儿，如字母 B 中的“斗牛犬 B”——不是针对斗牛犬，而是为了指定这一类别。
The secure attachment style is one in which the child will engage with the stranger, with the experimenter, while the parent is present in the room.
安全依恋风格是一种当父母在房间时，孩子会与陌生人、实验者互动的风格。
But that when the parent, typically it's a mother, but when the parent or other caregiver leaves, the child does get visibly upset.
但是，当父母（通常是母亲）离开时，孩子确实会明显感到不安。
They might whine, they might cry, they might even tantrum a bit.
他们可能会发牢骚，他们可能会哭泣，他们甚至可能会发脾气。
However, when the caregiver, meaning the mother or father or other caregiver returns, the child visibly expresses happiness that the caregiver has returned.
然而，当照顾者，即母亲或父亲或其他照顾者返回时，孩子明显地表达了照顾者回来的快乐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay?
好吧？
So that's the hallmark of the secure attachment style.
这就是安全附件风格的标志。
And again, this is all preverbal.
再说一遍，这都是前言。
This is happening long before the child can express how they feel with words.
这种情况早在孩子能够用语言表达他们的感受之前就发生了。
And the interpretation of this is that the secure child feels confident that the caregiver is available and will be responsive to their needs and their communications, so that when the child whines or is distressed, the parent doesn't come right back into the room.
对此的解释是，有安全感的孩子相信看护者随时待命，并且会对他们的需求和沟通做出回应，这样当孩子抱怨或感到苦恼时，父母就不会立即回到房间。
But at some point they do, and they seem to have a sense of trust that if the parent or caregiver leaves, that the parent will come back and that they're happy that they do.
但在某些时候他们会这样做，而且他们似乎有一种信任感，认为如果父母或照顾者离开，父母会回来，并且他们很高兴他们这样做。
These children are also very good at exploring novel environments after the parent is gone and while the parent is there.
这些孩子也非常擅长在父母离开后以及父母在场时探索新的环境。
And almost always when the parent is there, they will explore more broadly, literally in space, they'll venture out further than they will when the parent is gone.
而且几乎总是当父母在那里时，他们会进行更广泛的探索，实际上是在太空中，他们会比父母不在时冒险走得更远。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They also tend to engage with the caregiver in a way that's not immediately and completely trusting, but that over time seems to evolve from one in which they're kind of suspicious of this person to one in which they're at least somewhat trusting.
他们也倾向于以一种不会立即完全信任的方式与照顾者打交道，但随着时间的推移，这种方式似乎会从他们对这个人有点怀疑的方式演变为他们至少在某种程度上信任的方式。
Okay, so those are the general contours of the secure attachment style.
好的，这些就是安全附件样式的一般轮廓。
And fortunately nowadays, there are physiological studies measuring things like heart rate and breathing and other measures that correlate with the subjective assessment of what these children are feeling.
幸运的是，现在有一些生理学研究可以测量心率和呼吸等指标，以及与这些孩子的感受的主观评估相关的其他指标。
Okay, so first category is secure attached.
好的，第一类是安全连接的。
The second category is a so-called anxious, avoidant, or insecurely attached, which are the category A babies.
第二类是所谓的焦虑型、回避型或不安全型依恋型婴儿，即A类婴儿。
The children with anxious, avoidant, insecure attachment patterns generally tend to avoid or ignore the caregiver, all right, meaning the parent, and show very little emotion when the parent leaves or returns.
具有焦虑、回避、不安全依恋模式的孩子通常倾向于回避或忽视照顾者，好吧，指的是父母，当父母离开或返回时，他们几乎不会表现出任何情绪。
So this is the reason they call them avoidant or anxious, avoidant, and kind of insecure.
所以这就是他们称他们为回避型或焦虑型、回避型和缺乏安全感的原因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There isn't this happiness or joy that the parent is back.
父母回来了，没有这种幸福或喜悦。
They don't seem to express that.
他们似乎没有表达这一点。
They do not exhibit distress on separation, and they generally tend to have some tendency to approach the caregiver when they return, but there doesn't seem to be a general expression of joy.
他们在分离时不会表现出痛苦，而且当他们返回时，他们通常倾向于接近照顾者，但似乎没有普遍表达喜悦。
And again, physiological measures support that as well.
生理测量也支持这一点。
Things like changes in heart rate tend to be less dramatic in the anxious, avoidant, insecure attachment style than in the secure attachment style.
在焦虑、回避、不安全的依恋风格中，诸如心率变化之类的事情往往不如在安全依恋风格中那么剧烈。
Okay, so that's the second one.
好的，这是第二个。
The third category is the so-called anxious, ambivalent slash resistant insecure category.
第三类是所谓的焦虑型、矛盾型、抗拒型、不安全型。
Okay, I didn't name these categories, so you have to blame others in this one instance.
好吧，我没有说出这些类别，所以在这种情况下你必须责怪其他人。
For everything else, blame me, but in this instance, you have to blame the psychologists that name this category.
对于其他一切，都怪我，但在这种情况下，你必须责怪命名这一类别的心理学家。
The anxious, ambivalent slash resistant insecure category, also called the C babies, for the letter C, just as a categorization.
焦虑的、矛盾的、抗拒斜线的不安全类别，也称为 C 婴儿，字母 C，只是作为一种分类。
The anxious, ambivalent, resistant, insecure toddlers really show distress even before separation from their mother or other caregiver.
即使在与母亲或其他照顾者分离之前，焦虑、矛盾、抗拒、缺乏安全感的幼儿也会表现出痛苦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they tend to be very clingy and difficult to comfort when the caregiver returns.
当照顾者回来时，它们往往非常粘人，很难安慰。
Okay?
好的？
So they're distressed even before the mother leaves the room, and they tend to be very clingy and really hard to calm down when the mother returns.
因此，在母亲离开房间之前，它们就很苦恼，而且当母亲回来时，它们往往非常粘人，很难平静下来。
They tend to show either what seems to be resentment in response to the parent's absence.
他们倾向于表现出对父母缺席的不满。
We don't really know what they're feeling, or some sort of helpless passivity.
我们真的不知道他们的感受是什么，或者某种无助的被动。
And there's actually subcategorizations that the psychologists have come up, with C1 subtypes and C2 subtypes.
事实上，心理学家已经提出了一些子分类，即 C1 亚型和 C2 亚型。
We don't have to get bogged down in that, but just know that there isn't one absolute measure that says, "Oh, well, this person is anxious, ambivalent, resistant, insecure." They could be somewhat passive, or they could be seem somewhat angry at the caregiver.
我们不必深陷其中，但要知道，没有一种绝对的衡量标准可以说：“哦，好吧，这个人焦虑、矛盾、抗拒、缺乏安全感。”他们可能有些被动，或者看起来对看护者有些生气。
But the basic idea is that before and after the separation, they are clingy and difficult to comfort.
但基本的想法是，在分开之前和之后，他们都很粘人，很难安慰。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They just can't seem to calm themselves down.
他们似乎无法让自己平静下来。
And physiological measures of heart rate and hormone measurements such as cortisol also support that statement.
心率的生理测量和皮质醇等激素测量也支持这一说法。
And the third category of attachment style is the so-called disorganized, or disoriented, or D, for the letter D, babies.
第三类依恋类型是所谓的无组织性或迷失方向，或D，字母D，婴儿。
This is a categorization that was added later to this Strange Situation task that is a real hallmark of developmental psychology studies.
这是后来添加到奇怪情境任务中的分类，这是发展心理学研究的真正标志。
It was developed by Mary Ainsworth's graduate student, Mary Main, who I actually had the great fortune of taking a course from and learning from when I was a graduate student at Berkeley many years ago.
它是由 Mary Ainsworth 的研究生 Mary Main 开发的，很多年前，当我在伯克利读研究生时，我有幸从她那里学习了课程并从中学习。
And this fourth categorization was controversial for a while, but now is generally accepted.
第四种分类曾一度引起争议，但现在已被普遍接受。
The key feature of the disorganized, disoriented category is that the toddlers tend to be tense, and they tend to encompass a lot of kind of odd physical postures.
杂乱无章、迷失方向的类别的主要特征是幼儿往往很紧张，并且他们往往会出现很多奇怪的身体姿势。
They tend to hunch their shoulders, they'll put their hands behind their neck, they'll cock their head to the side.
他们倾向于耸肩，把手放在脖子后面，把头歪到一边。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For those of you listening, I'm doing this on the video version.
对于那些正在听的人，我正在视频版本中这样做。
It's not ...
这不是...
you don't have to go see that.
你不必去看那个。
But for those of you that are watching this on video, they tend to kind of constrain their body size a bit and go into odd postures that they normally wouldn't do anywhere else.
但对于那些在视频中观看此视频的人来说，他们往往会稍微限制自己的身体尺寸，并采取他们通常在其他地方不会做的奇怪姿势。
So this is why it's called the disorganized or disoriented category.
这就是为什么它被称为无组织或迷失方向的类别。
It seems like these children just don't really know how to react to a separation, and they just start to manifest behaviors and emotional tones that aren't observed in other situations.
这些孩子似乎并不真正知道如何对分离做出反应，他们只是开始表现出在其他情况下观察不到的行为和情绪基调。
Okay, so we've got our four categories.
好的，我们已经有了四个类别。
I'll try and use the shortest possible names for each category.
我将尝试为每个类别使用尽可能短的名称。
We've got category one, which is securely attached.
我们有第一类，它是牢固连接的。
We've got category two, which is insecurely attached, also sometimes called anxious, avoidant.
我们有第二类，即不安全依恋，有时也称为焦虑型、回避型。
Then we've got category three, which is the resistant insecure category, which is anxious, ambivalent.
然后我们有第三类，这是抵抗的不安全类别，它是焦虑的、矛盾的。
And then there's this fourth category, the disorganized, disoriented category, or the so-called D babies.
然后是第四类，无组织、迷失方向的类别，或所谓的 D 婴儿。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, what's interesting about this from the perspective of desire, love and attachment is that the categorizations of children into one of these four different categories as toddlers is strongly predictive of their attachment style in romantic partnerships later in life, which is, to me, both amazing and surprising and not surprising all at the same time.
现在，从欲望、爱和依恋的角度来看，有趣的是，在幼儿时期将孩子分类为这四个不同类别之一，强烈地预测了他们在以后的生活中浪漫伙伴关系中的依恋风格，这对我来说既令人惊讶又令人惊讶，同时又不足为奇。
Amazing, because it means that, first of all, we are relatively hardwired for attachment.
令人惊奇的是，因为这意味着，首先，我们对于依恋是相对天生的。
I think that that's incredible and beautiful, that we have designated neurons, nerve cells, and hormonal systems that are there to ensure that we have some sort of response to a caregiver being there or not being there or returning or leaving.
我认为这是令人难以置信和美丽的，我们指定了神经元、神经细胞和激素系统，以确保我们对护理人员在场或不在场、返回或离开有某种反应。
But also that the same neural circuitries, the same hormonal responses, are at least in some way repurposed for entirely different types of attachments later in life.
但同样的神经回路，同样的荷尔蒙反应，至少在某种程度上会在以后的生活中被重新用于完全不同类型的依恋。
So when we hear the psychologists talk about how we formed a template early in life based on experiences that were even preverbal, before we had language, and those templates are superimposed on our relationships, or we should say our later relationships are superimposed on those templates, there really is a basis for that.
因此，当我们听到心理学家谈论我们如何在生命早期根据甚至在语言出现之前的经历形成模板时，这些模板叠加在我们的关系上，或者我们应该说我们后来的关系叠加在这些模板上，这确实是有基础的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We now have neuroimaging studies to support, for instance the work of Allan Schore from UCLA, showing that when a mother and child interact, either through very soothing interactions like bottle feeding or breastfeeding or singing to one's baby or putting them to sleep, that the brain of the child and the brain of the mother are entering a coordinated state of relaxation.
我们现在有神经影像学研究来支持，例如加州大学洛杉矶分校艾伦·肖尔（Allan Schore）的研究表明，当母亲和孩子互动时，无论是通过奶瓶喂养或母乳喂养等非常舒缓的互动，还是给婴儿唱歌或让他们入睡，孩子的大脑和母亲的大脑正在进入协调的放松状态。
And it's not one direction, mother to child.
从母亲到孩子，这不是一个方向。
The child is also calming the mother.
孩子也在安抚母亲。
Typically, these studies were done with mothers, again, sometimes with fathers, but typically with mothers.
通常，这些研究是针对母亲进行的，有时是针对父亲，但通常是针对母亲。
And in addition to that, when the mother or other caregiver acts very excited and raises their voice or puts a lilt in their voice or widens their eyes, that the child will do the same.
除此之外，当母亲或其他照顾者表现得非常兴奋并提高声音或轻快地说话或睁大眼睛时，孩子也会做同样的事情。
And again, there's a bidirectional interaction in that case of excitement.
再说一遍，在兴奋的情况下存在双向互动。
And there's the release of neurochemicals like dopamine into the bloodstream.
多巴胺等神经化学物质会释放到血液中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whereas in the relaxation scenario and the soothing scenario, we know the release of things like serotonin and oxytocin.
而在放松场景和舒缓场景中，我们知道血清素和催产素等物质的释放。
So the neural systems for attachment and the neural systems for what we call autonomic arousal, for being alert and calm, don't act in a vacuum.
因此，负责依恋的神经系统和负责自主唤醒、保持警觉和冷静的神经系统并不是在真空中发挥作用。
They are tethered to other people in our environment.
他们与我们环境中的其他人联系在一起。
And of course, we know this, right?
当然，我们知道这一点，对吧？
We sometimes hear the statement, "No one can make you feel anything." I've always had a little bit of a problem with that statement.
我们有时会听到这样一句话：“没有人能让你有任何感觉。”我一直对这句话有一点疑问。
I don't think I'm contradicting anyone in particular, but you hear that a lot.
我不认为我特别反对任何人，但你经常听到这样的说法。
"No one can make you feel anything." Indeed, they can, right?
“没有人能让你有任何感觉。”确实，他们可以，对吧？
A physical injury can make you feel something.
身体伤害会让你感觉到一些东西。
If somebody says something that you very much like, it can make you feel something.
如果有人说了一些你非常喜欢的话，它会让你有某种感觉。
And if somebody says something that you very much dislike, it will make you feel something.
如果有人说了一些你非常不喜欢的话，它会让你有某种感觉。
So the idea that no one can make us feel anything isn't actually true.
因此，没有人能让我们感受到任何事情的想法实际上是不正确的。
Our nervous system
我们的神经系统
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Make us feel anything isn't actually true.
让我们觉得一切都不是真的。
Our nervous system is tethered to the nervous systems of others, and that is true from the very earliest stages of our lives.
我们的神经系统与他人的神经系统息息相关，从我们生命的最初阶段开始就是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In this case, we're talking about how our templates for attachment in romantic relationships, how we find them, how we maintain them and, indeed, how we break them and reform them, is based on a template that was established through an entirely different set of priorities, which was how we feel safe and secure in novel environments, depending on whether or not our primary caregiver is there or not.
在这种情况下，我们谈论的是我们在浪漫关系中的依恋模板，我们如何找到它们，我们如何维持它们，以及我们如何打破它们并改革它们，是基于通过完全不同的优先级集建立的模板，这就是我们在新环境中感到安全和有保障的方式，具体取决于我们的主要照顾者是否在那里。
Neuroimaging supports that.
神经影像学支持这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When I say neuroimaging, I mean brain scans support that.
当我说神经影像学时，我的意思是脑部扫描支持这一点。
Measures of hormones in the body and brain support that.
身体和大脑中激素的测量结果支持了这一点。
Measures of neurochemicals support that.
神经化学物质的测量结果支持了这一点。
There's simply no way around this truth that we have a set of roadmaps in our mind that are reused for entirely different purposes later in life.
我们脑子里有一套路线图，在以后的生活中会被重复用于完全不同的目的，这一事实根本无法回避。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That is vitally important to understand because if one is successful in forming romantic attachments, maintaining them, et cetera or not does, in fact, reflect the earlier templates that you've created.
理解这一点非常重要，因为如果一个人成功地形成、维持浪漫依恋等等，事实上，这反映了你之前创建的模板。
As I've mentioned before, the good news is that these templates can shift over time.
正如我之前提到的，好消息是这些模板可以随着时间的推移而改变。
One of the more powerful ways to shift those templates over time is purely by the knowledge that they exist and the understanding that those templates are malleable.
随着时间的推移改变这些模板的更强大的方法之一是纯粹通过了解它们的存在以及理解这些模板是可塑的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They can change through the process of neuroplasticity.
它们可以通过神经可塑性过程发生变化。
Again, neuroplasticity is just a rewiring of nerve connections.
同样，神经可塑性只是神经连接的重新布线。
That is very much present in childhood, but also very much present in adulthood.
这在童年时期很常见，在成年时期也很常见。
If you're somebody who you think falls into category one, two, three or four, or you know somebody or are involved with somebody who falls into category one, two, three and four, the mere knowledge of that can be very useful.
如果您认为自己属于第一类、第二类、第三类或第四类，或者您认识属于第一类、第二类、第三类或第四类的人或与属于第一类、第二类、第三类和第四类的人有关系，那么仅仅了解这一点就非常有用。
You might ask, "Well, what do I do with that knowledge?"
你可能会问：“那么，我该如何利用这些知识呢？”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Fortunately, both psychologists and biologists have started to leverage that knowledge toward establishing better, more secure bonds in adult romantic relationships.
幸运的是，心理学家和生物学家已经开始利用这些知识在成人恋爱关系中建立更好、更安全的纽带。
There's a book that has really tapped into this.
有本书真正探讨了这一点。
I think it's the first book that has really addressed this head on.
我认为这是第一本真正正面解决这个问题的书。
That book comes from two Columbia professors.
那本书来自哥伦比亚大学的两位教授。
The title of the book is "Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help You Find — and Keep — Love."
这本书的标题是“依恋：成人依恋的新科学以及它如何帮助你找到并保持爱”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The authors of this book are Amir Levine and Rachel Heller.
本书的作者是阿米尔·莱文和雷切尔·海勒。
Again, both of them are skilled academics and researchers who have really taken the literature that I described on the Strange Situation task and mapped it to adult attachment styles.
再说一遍，他们都是熟练的学者和研究人员，他们真正采用了我在陌生情境任务中描述的文献，并将其映射到成人依恋风格。
Also, they've mapped out ways that they've observed in their clinical practice and that is laboratory supported.
此外，他们还制定了在临床实践中观察到的并得到实验室支持的方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For instance, people that have an anxious, ambivalent or what we would call an insecure attachment style, or for people that fall into the disorganized or disoriented attachment style, how they can modify that attachment style in or out of relationships in order to establish what I think everybody wants, which is secure attachment.
例如，对于具有焦虑、矛盾或我们所说的不安全依恋风格的人，或者对于陷入无组织或迷失方向的依恋风格的人，他们如何在关系中或关系外修改这种依恋风格，以建立我认为每个人都想要的东西，即安全依恋。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Why does everybody want that?
为什么每个人都想要这样？
Secure attachment allows people to be both in relationship, or if they choose to be on their own; or to be in a relationship, but physically separated from somebody else or even emotionally separated from somebody else and maintain what we call a stable autonomic equilibrium, the ability to remain calm, clear-headed.
安全依恋可以让人们既可以处于恋爱关系中，也可以选择独处；或者处于一段关系中，但在身体上与其他人分离，甚至在情感上与其他人分离，并保持我们所说的稳定的自主平衡，即保持冷静、头脑清醒的能力。
You might not like what's happening, but you're able to navigate that with some sense of clarity and not excessive discomfort.
你可能不喜欢正在发生的事情，但你能够以某种清晰的感觉来应对，而不是过度不适。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is there a goal in all of this stuff about love, desire and attachment?
所有这些关于爱、欲望和依恋的东西有一个目标吗？
Indeed, there is.
确实有。
The secure attachment style is the one that leads to the most stable and predictable long-term relationship.
安全依恋风格是一种能够带来最稳定、最可预测的长期关系的风格。
Put differently, babies, toddlers, adolescents, teens and young adults that have a secure attachment style are more likely to find and form long-term relationships than are people in the other categories.
换句话说，具有安全依恋风格的婴儿、幼儿、青少年和年轻人比其他类别的人更有可能找到并形成长期关系。
People in other categories can learn and eventually migrate into the secure attachment style.
其他类别的人可以学习并最终迁移到安全依恋风格。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think that book, "Attached," I have no affiliation to the authors or the book itself.
我认为那本书，“附件”，我与作者或书本身没有任何关系。
I should just mention that.
我应该提一下。
"Attached: The new Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help You Find — and Keep — Love," really, it sounds very pop psychology-esque, but it is really grounded in the research psychology literature.
“附件：成人依恋的新科学及其如何帮助你找到并保持爱情”，确实，这听起来很流行心理学，但它确实扎根于研究心理学文献。
There's also some interesting biology there.
那里还有一些有趣的生物学。
Another point to make about attachment styles is that it is possible.
关于依恋风格的另一点是它是可能的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some of you may be familiar with circumstances whereby people who are securely attached, either because they grew up in an environment where secure attachment was cultivated or because they developed that on their own, can also migrate out of the securely attached category into insecurely attached or into avoidant types of attachment styles as teens or as young adults or as adults at any age or any stage of life, by virtue of being with somebody who has a different perhaps less adaptive attachment style, right?
你们中的一些人可能熟悉这样的情况，安全依恋的人，无论是因为他们在培养安全依恋的环境中长大，还是因为他们自己发展了安全依恋，也可以在青少年、年轻人或任何年龄或任何人生阶段的成年人中，从安全依恋类别迁移到不安全依恋或回避型依恋风格，因为与具有不同的、也许适应性较差的依恋风格的人在一起，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What this means is that if you have or you develop a secure attachment style, it's vitally important to protect that attachment style because it is possible to become anxiously attached even if you grew up in a stable attachment framework.
这意味着，如果您拥有或正在发展一种安全的依恋风格，那么保护这种依恋风格就至关重要，因为即使您在稳定的依恋框架中长大，也有可能变得焦虑依恋。
Again, this can happen at any stage.
同样，这可能发生在任何阶段。
If you're interested in attachment styles and how they influence adult romantic attachments and, certainly, if you are a parent, I would encourage you to check out the book "Attached."
如果您对依恋风格以及它们如何影响成人浪漫依恋感兴趣，当然，如果您是父母，我会鼓励您查看《依恋》一书。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Again, it's quite good and I think that it offers a number of actionable tools to both form and hold onto secure attachment styles.
再说一次，它非常好，我认为它提供了许多可操作的工具来形成和保持安全的附件样式。
I mentioned that the neural circuits for child, parent or child-caregiver attachment are repurposed for romantic attachment later in life.
我提到过，儿童、父母或儿童照顾者依恋的神经回路在以后的生活中被重新用于浪漫依恋。
What are these neural circuits?
这些神经回路是什么？
What do they do?
他们做什么？
It's so attractive, if you will, to think about a brain area that controls love or a brain area that controls desire or a brain area that controls attachment, but it simply doesn't work that way.
如果你愿意的话，想象一下控制爱情的大脑区域、控制欲望的大脑区域或控制依恋的大脑区域是非常有吸引力的，但它根本不是这样运作的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As I've talked about before on this podcast and I will say again and again because it will persist to be true long after I'm gone, is that no one brain area can give rise to anything as complex as desire or love or attachment.
正如我之前在这个播客上谈到的那样，我会一次又一次地说，因为在我去世后很长一段时间它仍然是正确的，那就是没有任何一个大脑区域可以产生像欲望、爱或依恋这样复杂的东西。
Instead, there are multiple brain areas that through their coordinated action create a sort of a song that we call desire, or a song that we call love, or a song that we call attachment.
相反，有多个大脑区域通过它们的协调行动创造出一首我们称之为欲望的歌曲，或者一首我们称之为爱的歌曲，或者一首我们称之为依恋的歌曲。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not a literal song, although there are songs about desire, love and attachment, of course.
当然，这不是一首真正的歌曲，尽管也有一些关于欲望、爱和依恋的歌曲。
Many songs, some good, some not so good, but rather different brain areas being active in different sequences and with different intensities can make us feel as if we are in the mode that we call desire or in the mode of love or in the mode of attachment.
许多歌曲，有些好，有些不太好，而是不同的大脑区域以不同的顺序和不同的强度活跃，可以让我们感觉好像处于我们所谓的欲望模式或爱模式或依恋模式中。
Beneath all of that is this element of autonomic arousal.
所有这一切的背后都是自主神经唤醒的因素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to focus on autonomic arousal just for a bit longer because it really is one of the three core elements by which we form and maintain loving attachments and by which we break loving attachments.
我想多花一点时间关注自主唤醒，因为它确实是我们形成和维持爱的依恋以及打破爱的依恋的三个核心要素之一。
The autonomic nervous system, as the name suggests, is automatic.
自主神经系统，顾名思义，是自动的。
In fact, that's what autonomic means.
事实上，这就是自主的意思。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, it's actually the case that we can control our autonomic nervous system to some degree or another, but the autonomic nervous system controls things like digestion, our breathing, whether or not we're conscious of that breathing or not.
现在，实际上我们可以在某种程度上控制我们的自主神经系统，但自主神经系统控制着消化、呼吸等事情，无论我们是否意识到呼吸。
It controls things like how alert we are or how sleepy we are.
它控制着我们的警觉程度或困倦程度等事情。
The autonomic nervous system, as I just briefly described earlier, is really something that we come into the world with.
正如我之前简单描述的那样，自主神经系统确实是我们来到这个世界上的东西。
It's hardwired.
它是硬连线的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All the elements are there, but through interactions with our parent, either soothing interactions or fun, playful interactions, or dare I say, scary interactions, our autonomic nervous system gets tuned up.
所有元素都在那里，但通过与父母的互动，无论是舒缓的互动还是有趣、好玩的互动，或者我敢说，可怕的互动，我们的自主神经系统都会得到调整。
Meaning we each develop a tendency to either be more alert and anxious or more calm or kind of a balance of alert and calm.
这意味着我们每个人都倾向于变得更加警觉和焦虑，或者更加冷静，或者是警觉和冷静之间的平衡。
Now, of course, this changes across each day.
当然，现在这种情况每天都在变化。
Depending how tired we are late in the day, if we've been awake for a while, we tend to get sleepy early in the day.
根据我们在一天晚些时候的疲劳程度，如果我们已经醒了一段时间，我们往往会在一天的早些时候感到困倦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If we're very rested, we tend to wake up and feel very alert.
如果我们休息得很好，我们醒来后往往会感到非常警觉。
The way to think about the autonomic nervous system is kind of a seesaw.
思考自主神经系统的方式有点像跷跷板。
We go back and forth between being very alert.
我们在非常警觉之间来回徘徊。
We can be alert and calm, or we can be very, very alert.
我们可以保持警惕和冷静，也可以非常非常警惕。
We can be in a state of panic.
我们可能会处于恐慌状态。
We can be fast asleep.
我们可以睡得很熟。
So we can be extremely calm or we can just be kind of sleepy.
所以我们可以非常平静，也可以只是有点困。
Semi-calm, but still also alert.
半平静，但仍保持警觉。
Think about it like a seesaw.
像跷跷板一样思考。
That seesaw has a hinge and that hinge defines how tight or loose that seesaw is, how readily it can tilt back and forth.
该跷跷板有一个铰链，该铰链定义了跷跷板的松紧程度，以及它前后倾斜的容易程度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Our autonomic tone is how tight that hinge is.
我们的自主音调是铰链的紧密程度。
There are biological mechanisms to explain this, but here, I just want to stay with the analogy of the seesaw for now.
有生物学机制可以解释这一点，但在这里，我现在只想继续用跷跷板进行类比。
The interactions between child and caregiver early in life take the child and the caregiver from one end of the seesaw to the other.
孩子和照顾者在生命早期的互动将孩子和照顾者从跷跷板的一端带到另一端。
From being very alert in a state of play, for instance, to being nursed and being very soothed until we go to sleep.
例如，从在游戏状态下非常警觉，到在我们入睡之前受到护理和非常安抚。
Of course, we each have a seesaw.
当然，我们每个人都有一个跷跷板。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The parent and the child has a seesaw and they're interacting.
父母和孩子有一个跷跷板，他们正在互动。
What do I mean by that?
我这么说是什么意思？
There are beautiful studies and beautiful, not in the sense that they focused on a pleasant topic, but beautiful because they were done so beautifully well, that looked at, for instance, the response of mothers and their physiologies and the response of children and their physiologies during the bombing of cities during World War II.
有一些美丽的研究，而且美丽，不是因为它们专注于一个令人愉快的话题，而是因为它们做得非常好，例如，研究了二战期间城市轰炸期间母亲及其生理机能的反应以及儿童及其生理机能的反应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
An unpleasant situation.
一个不愉快的情况。
What was revealed during the course of these studies was that if the mothers were very stressed during an onslaught of bombing of the city, the children's physiologies tended to be stressed also and persisted in being stressed long after that stressful episode was done.
这些研究过程中发现，如果母亲在城市轰炸期间承受很大的压力，那么孩子的生理机能也会受到压力，并且在压力事件结束后很长时间内仍会持续承受压力。
They actually followed that these children well out for many decades afterwards.
事实上，他们在几十年后就发现这些孩子过得很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Conversely, if the parent, and in this case again, it was mothers that were explored in these studies, had turned this whole business of going into the bomb shelters into somewhat of a game, right?
相反，如果父母（在本例中又是这些研究中探讨的母亲）将进入防空洞的整个过程变成了某种游戏，对吧？
Taking it seriously, but essentially telling the children, "Okay.
认真对待它，但本质上是告诉孩子们：“好吧。
It's time to go," but not expressing much stress or distress.
是时候走了”，但没有表现出太大的压力或痛苦。
The children also didn't develop much stress or distress or trauma.
孩子们也没有承受太大的压力、痛苦或创伤。
Now, there were exceptions to this of course, but in general, that was the rule.
当然，也有例外，但总的来说，这就是规则。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That the autonomic nervous systems of children tend to mimic the autonomic nervous systems of the primary caregiver.
儿童的自主神经系统倾向于模仿主要照顾者的自主神经系统。
The mechanisms by which this occurs has been explored.
已经探索了这种情况发生的机制。
Again, I just referred to the beautiful work of Allan Schore at University of California, Los Angeles.
再说一遍，我刚才提到了加州大学洛杉矶分校艾伦·肖尔 (Allan Schore) 的精彩工作。
Again, his name is Schore.
再说一次，他的名字叫肖尔。
Spelled S-C-H-O-R-E.
拼写为 S-C-H-O-R-E。
I'm looking down briefly at the floor here because I'll just reach for the book.
我低头看了一眼地板，因为我只想伸手去拿书。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He has a wonderful book called, "Right Brain Psychotherapy." It's a little bit technical, but if you're interested in some of the studies, this book, "Right Brain Psychotherapy," details how everything from nursing of children to play-time behavior to strange situation-type task behavior that we talked about before, which of course occurs when children get dropped off at daycare or nursery school or with babysitters, et cetera.
他有一本很棒的书，名叫《右脑心理治疗》。这有点技术性，但如果你对某些研究感兴趣，这本书《右脑心理治疗》详细介绍了从护理儿童到游戏时间行为，再到我们之前讨论过的奇怪情景型任务行为，这当然发生在孩子们被送到日托或托儿所或保姆等处时。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Indeed, all types of caregiver-child interactions tune up that autonomic nervous system so that the child ends up with an autonomic nervous system that either tends to lean more towards alert and anxious or can be very alert, but calm or can be very calm and hard to budge.
事实上，所有类型的看护者与儿童的互动都会调节自主神经系统，从而使孩子最终形成一种自主神经系统，要么更倾向于警觉和焦虑，要么非常警觉但平静，要么非常平静且难以动摇。
Again, it's the tightness of that hinge that really underlies these attachment styles that we were talking about earlier.
同样，铰链的紧密度才是我们之前讨论的这些连接方式的真正基础。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not on this episode of the Huberman Lab podcast, but on many other previous episodes such as the Master Stress episode or some of the optimized health episodes.
不是在休伯曼实验室播客的这一集中，而是在许多其他以前的剧集中，例如“大师压力”剧集或一些优化的健康剧集。
You can find these if you want at hubermanlab.com.
如果需要，您可以在 hubermanlab.com 上找到这些内容。
A lot of the tools and techniques that are recommended there have to do with readjusting the autonomic nervous system in deliberate ways as an adult.
那里推荐的许多工具和技术都与成年人有意识地重新调整自主神经系统有关。
Again, I won't go into the specific tools, but for instance, the physiological sigh.
再说一次，我不会讨论具体的工具，但例如生理叹息。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This tool that I've talked about extensively of two inhales through the nose as deeply as you can on the first one, sneaking in a little bit more air on the second one and then a long exhale through the mouth is a way of adjusting that autonomic seesaw.
我已经广泛讨论过这个工具，即在第一次时通过鼻子尽可能深地吸气，在第二次时潜入更多的空气，然后通过嘴长时间呼气，这是调整自主跷跷板的一种方法。
It tends to make us more calm.
它往往会让我们更加平静。
It activates what we call the parasympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system, which is just fancy nerd-speak for "It's a quick way to calm yourself down," right?
它激活了我们所说的自主神经系统的副交感神经，这只是书呆子所说的“这是让自己平静下来的快速方法”，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Things like ice baths or cold showers or cold immersion or deliberate hyperventilation by contrast or ways in which we can deliberately increase the level of our so-called sympathetic arm of our autonomic nervous system to make ourselves more alert.
相比之下，冰浴或冷水淋浴或冷水浸泡或故意过度换气，或者我们可以故意提高自主神经系统的所谓交感神经臂水平以使自己更加警觉的方式。
Why would you want to do that?
你为什么要这么做？
You can do that to be more alert, to be more awake, if you like, or as a form of self-induced stress inoculation to be able to tolerate higher levels of adrenaline by making it a practice that you self-direct.
如果你愿意的话，你可以这样做是为了更加警觉，更加清醒，或者作为一种自我诱导的压力接种形式，通过使其成为一种自我指导的练习，能够耐受更高水平的肾上腺素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The reason those tools are out there is because many of us, for whatever reason, we don't have to blame anyone, but because of our childhood templates, because of things that happened and didn't happen in terms of our interactions with caregivers, have autonomic nervous systems that are tilted to one side or the other more than we would like or in which the hinge that I'm talking about in this analogy is too loose or that is too tight.
这些工具之所以存在，是因为我们中的许多人，无论出于什么原因，我们都不必责怪任何人，但因为我们的童年模板，因为我们与照顾者的互动中发生和未发生的事情，我们的自主神经系统比我们想要的更倾向于一侧或另一侧，或者我在这个类比中谈论的铰链太松或太紧。
We're sort of stuck in a mode of anxiousness or stuck in a mode of lack of energy.
我们有点陷入焦虑或缺乏活力的状态。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's what those tools are really about.
这就是这些工具的真正用途。
At a deeper level, the autonomic nervous system is really the system that governs how we will react in response to a romantic partner being present or leaving.
从更深层次来说，自主神经系统实际上是控制我们对浪漫伴侣的出现或离开做出反应的系统。
I don't necessarily mean leaving the relationship entirely, although it could mean that, right?
我不一定意味着完全离开这段关系，尽管这可能意味着，对吗？
We know people.
我们认识人。
I'm sure people that upon the end of a relationship that they wanted very much are absolutely crushed.
我确信人们在结束一段他们非常想要的关系后绝对会崩溃。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Actually, in researching this episode there, I discovered there's an extensive literature finding that the feelings that one has after a breakup are very much like a clinical depression in many cases.
事实上，在研究这一事件时，我发现有大量文献发现，在很多情况下，分手后的感受非常像临床抑郁症。
There are individuals that can look at a breakup as a transient event that they don't interpret as going to mean so much for all aspects of their life or reshaping their view of themselves.
有些人可能将分手视为短暂事件，他们认为分手对他们生活的各个方面都没有多大意义，也不会重塑他们对自己的看法。
Why?
为什么？
We have different levels of autonomic function.
我们有不同程度的自主功能。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Depending on where our seesaw is, if you will, some of us become extremely distraught and can't recalibrate ourselves, can't adjust ourselves down from stress to calm or can't take ourselves from exhausted to more alert if we need to do that on our own.
如果你愿意的话，这取决于我们的跷跷板的位置，我们中的一些人会变得极度心烦意乱，无法重新调整自己，无法将自己从压力调整到平静，或者无法让自己从疲惫状态变得更加警觉（如果我们需要自己做到这一点）。
That's why tools for doing that exist.
这就是为什么存在这样做的工具。
Attachment itself is about where our autonomic nervous system resides.
依恋本身与我们的自主神经系统所在的位置有关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If I were to offer a set of tools around these topics of desire, love and attachment, I would say, first of all, you might want to think about whether or not you fall into the secure, insecure or other attachment styles.
如果我要围绕欲望、爱和依恋这些主题提供一套工具，我会说，首先，你可能要考虑一下你是否陷入安全型、不安全型或其他依恋类型。
Second, I think it is vitally important for all of us, but certainly for people that are in relationships or seeking relationships to be able to at least have some recognition of where our autonomic nervous system tends to reside, both in terms of when we are with somebody and when they leave.
其次，我认为这对我们所有人都至关重要，但对于正在恋爱或寻求恋爱的人来说，至少能够对我们的自主神经系统的驻留位置有一定的认识，包括我们何时与某人在一起以及何时他们离开。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When we are apart for long periods of time, can we calm ourselves?
当我们长时间分开时，我们能平静自己吗？
Can we self-soothe?
我们可以自我安慰吗？
Are we very much dependent on the presence of another in order to feel soothed?
我们是否非常依赖他人的存在才能感到安慰？
Now, I absolutely want to emphasize that there is nothing wrong.
现在，我绝对想强调，没有任何问题。
In fact, there's everything right with feeling great in the presence of somebody else.
事实上，有别人在场时感觉良好是完全正确的。
That is actually a hallmark of strong and quality attachments.
这实际上是强烈而优质的依恋的标志。
These days, we hear the term "codependent" a lot.
如今，我们经常听到“相互依赖”这个词。
I believe the term was first coined by Pia Mellody.
我相信这个术语是由 Pia Melody 首先创造的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It actually does occupy an important role in the world of trauma, trauma healing, so-called trauma bonding, topics of another episode.
它实际上确实在创伤、创伤愈合、所谓的创伤联结、另一集的主题的世界中占据着重要作用。
I actually did an episode on fear and trauma, and we will do one all about trauma bonding with an expert at some point in the future.
事实上，我制作了一集关于恐惧和创伤的剧集，我们将在未来的某个时候制作一个关于与专家建立创伤联系的剧集。
Codependence and codependency, the term can sometimes be misinterpreted as any dependence on another, isn't good.
相互依赖和相互依赖这个术语有时会被误解为对他人的任何依赖都是不好的。
Interdependence, healthy interdependence, of course, is good.
相互依存，健康的相互依存，当然是好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It is the hallmark of healthy child-parent relations, sibling relations and romantic relations.
这是健康的亲子关系、兄弟姐妹关系和浪漫关系的标志。
A key element of healthy interdependence is that, yes, our autonomic nervous system is adjusted by the presence of another, but that also that we can adjust our own autonomic nervous system even in the absence of that person.
健康的相互依赖的一个关键要素是，是的，我们的自主神经系统会因另一个人的存在而进行调整，但即使在那个人不在的情况下，我们也可以调整自己的自主神经系统。
That if the person goes away temporarily or permanently, that we can still regulate our own autonomic nervous system, both from states of stress to states of calm, both from states of exhaustion to states of more alertness.
如果这个人暂时或永久离开，我们仍然可以调节自己的自主神经系统，从压力状态到平静状态，从疲惫状态到更加警觉状态。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of course, we all need sleep to go from exhaustion to alertness, but what I'm referring to here is the ability to regulate when distraught or regulate when fatigued or feeling depressed.
当然，我们都需要睡眠才能从疲惫转为警觉，但我在这里指的是在心烦意乱时进行调节或在疲劳或感到沮丧时进行调节的能力。
That is and is all about the autonomic nervous system.
这就是自主神经系统的全部内容。
As we talk about attachment styles, when we talk about infant and toddler and adult attachment styles, what we are really talking about is a complex set of neural circuitries.
当我们谈论依恋风格时，当我们谈论婴幼儿和成人依恋风格时，我们真正谈论的是一组复杂的神经回路。
One of those neural circuitries, which is absolutely crucial, is this autonomic nervous system.
其中一个绝对重要的神经回路就是自主神经系统。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If the autonomic nervous system is one key component of desire, love and attachment, what are the other two?
如果自主神经系统是欲望、爱和依恋的关键组成部分之一，那么另外两个是什么？
What I'm going to tell you next is largely the pioneering work of Helen Fisher, who is really an anthropologist who's become a bit of a neuroscientist and has collaborated with neuroscientists to establish brain areas and neural circuits that are associated with different aspects of attachment, love and desire.
接下来我要告诉你的主要是海伦·费舍尔的开创性工作，她实际上是一位人类学家，现在已经成为一位神经科学家，并与神经科学家合作建立了与依恋、爱和欲望的不同方面相关的大脑区域和神经回路。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think the first really high-quality study of neural circuits associated with these themes was a paper published in 2005 in a very fine anatomical journal, perhaps the best neuroanatomical journal, which is the Journal of Comparative Neurology.
我认为第一篇真正高质量的与这些主题相关的神经回路研究是 2005 年发表在一本非常优秀的解剖学杂志上的一篇论文，它可能是最好的神经解剖学杂志，即《比较神经学杂志》。
The Journal of Comparative Neurology has been around for more than a hundred years and is considered the archival location for placing really high-quality anatomy.
《比较神经学杂志》已经存在一百多年了，被认为是放置真正高质量解剖学的档案位置。
They have tremendously high standards.
他们有非常高的标准。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The study that I'm referring to is entitled, "Romantic love: An fMRI, ...
我指的这项研究的标题是“浪漫的爱情：功能磁共振成像，......
," meaning functional magnetic resonance imaging, " ...
，”意思是功能磁共振成像，“......
study of a neural mechanism for mate choice." Dr. Fisher is an author on this paper, as is Arthur Aron and Lucy Brown.
研究配偶选择的神经机制。” Fisher 博士是本文的作者，Arthur Aron 和 Lucy Brown 也是该论文的作者。
All very fine researchers.
都是非常优秀的研究人员。
This study, as well as several other studies using magnetic resonance imaging, things like EEG, neuroanatomical tracing, et cetera have identified a large number of brain areas that are associated with different aspects of desire, love and attachment.
这项研究以及其他几项使用磁共振成像、脑电图、神经解剖追踪等的研究已经确定了大量与欲望、爱和依恋的不同方面相关的大脑区域。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'll just throw out a few names of those brain areas and what they control and then I'll tell you how those anchor to the other two categories of neural circuits essential for desire, love and attachment.
我只会列出这些大脑区域的一些名称以及它们控制的内容，然后我会告诉你这些区域如何锚定到对欲望、爱和依恋至关重要的其他两类神经回路。
Not surprisingly, the dopamine system in the brain is associated with desire, love and attachment.
毫不奇怪，大脑中的多巴胺系统与欲望、爱和依恋有关。
Mainly with desire, although to some extent, love.
主要是欲望，虽然在某种程度上是爱。
Dopamine is a neurochemical sometimes associated with reward.
多巴胺是一种神经化学物质，有时与奖励有关。
As some of you have heard me say before, it is mainly a molecule of motivation, craving and pursuit.
正如你们中有些人之前听我说过的，它主要是一个动机、渴望和追求的分子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That motivation, craving and pursuit that relates to dopamine is not unique to attachment or love or sex or mating, et cetera.
与多巴胺相关的动机、渴望和追求并不是依恋、爱、性或交配等所独有的。
It is a universal generic currency in the brain for pursuing something.
它是大脑中用于追求某种事物的通用通用货币。
Food when you're hungry, a mate when you want one, two mates when you want two, warmth when you're cold, et cetera, et cetera.
当你饿的时候有食物，当你想要一个的时候有一个伴侣，当你想要两个的时候有两个伴侣，当你冷的时候有温暖，等等，等等。
Okay?
好的？
It's not for one specific purpose, but the brain areas associated with dopamine involve, for instance, the ventral tegmental area, the substantia nigra, areas of that sort, the basal ganglia.
它不是为了一个特定的目的，但与多巴胺相关的大脑区域涉及，例如，腹侧被盖区、黑质、基底神经节等区域。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You don't need to know these names.
你不需要知道这些名字。
Just understand that these are networks of neurons that tend to put the person, you, into a state of forward action and pursuit and craving and motivation.
只要明白，这些神经元网络往往会让你，进入一种向前行动、追求、渴望和动机的状态。
They are not about being quiescent, relaxed, et cetera.
它们并不是要安静、放松等等。
The neural circuits for quiescence and relaxation are most associated with love and attachment, not surprisingly.
毫不奇怪，平静和放松的神经回路与爱和依恋最相关。
There, the neurochemical serotonin and, to some extent, oxytocin are the predominant neurochemicals involved.
在那里，神经化学物质血清素和在某种程度上催产素是主要的神经化学物质。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Those are released from brain areas such as the raphe nucleus in the back of the brain.
这些是从大脑区域（例如大脑后部的中缝核）释放的。
You may have heard that the majority of serotonin in your body is made in your gut, and, indeed, that's true.
您可能听说过，您体内的大部分血清素是在肠道中产生的，确实如此。
I hate to break it to you, the serotonin in your gut is not responsible for your feelings of love and attachment, at least not to a high degree.
我不想告诉你，你肠道中的血清素并不负责你的爱和依恋的感觉，至少不是在很大程度上。
That's mainly going to be the reflection of neurons in your brain that make serotonin.
这主要是大脑中产生血清素的神经元的反映。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are other areas of the brain that make serotonin as well, and oxytocin as well, but they tend to be associated with the kind of warmth and calm and the soothing that we feel in the presence of another.
大脑的其他区域也会产生血清素和催产素，但它们往往与我们在他人面前感受到的温暖、平静和舒缓有关。
Again, these are not strictly divided circuits.
同样，这些不是严格划分的电路。
We can have dopamine and serotonin present in our brain and body at the same time to equal or different degrees.
我们的大脑和身体中可以同时存在相同或不同程度的多巴胺和血清素。
We will return in a little bit to what happens when levels of dopamine are very high and levels of serotonin are low and vice versa, and so on.
我们稍后会回顾一下当多巴胺水平很高而血清素水平很低时会发生什么，反之亦然，等等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Including in states of neurochemically modified states, as it were, when we talk about things like MDMA, so-called ecstasy.
包括在神经化学修饰状态下，当我们谈论 MDMA（所谓的摇头丸）之类的东西时。
In the meantime, I want to just discuss the two neural circuits that use dopamine, that use serotonin and oxytocin and that collaborate with the autonomic nervous system to drive what we call desire, love and attachment.
与此同时，我想讨论一下使用多巴胺的两个神经回路，它们使用血清素和催产素，并与自主神经系统协作来驱动我们所说的欲望、爱和依恋。
The three circuits are autonomic nervous system, we talked about that one.
这三个回路是自主神经系统，我们谈到了那个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Then there's the nervous system components or the neural circuits for empathy, for being able to see and respond to and, indeed, match the emotional tone or the autonomic tone of another.
然后是用于同理心的神经系统组件或神经回路，用于能够看到并做出反应，并且实际上匹配另一个人的情绪基调或自主基调。
Then there's the third category and this might surprise some of you, it certainly surprised me, but the data point to the fact that the third neural circuit that's very important for establishing bonds is one associated with positive delusions.
然后是第三类，这可能会让你们中的一些人感到惊讶，这当然让我感到惊讶，但数据表明，对于建立联系非常重要的第三个神经回路是与积极妄想相关的神经回路。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Given that the neural circuits for empathy are absolutely crucial for falling in love and maintaining stable attachments, I'd like to talk about those neural circuits and what they are.
鉴于同理心神经回路对于坠入爱河和维持稳定的依恋绝对至关重要，我想谈谈这些神经回路以及它们是什么。
Now, often when we hear empathy, we think, "Oh, empathy is really about listening to and really understanding what somebody else is feeling.
现在，当我们听到同理心时，我们常常会想：“哦，同理心实际上是倾听并真正理解别人的感受。
Maybe even feeling what they're feeling." Indeed, that's the case.
也许甚至能感受到他们的感受。”确实如此。
What do we mean by that, right?
我们这是什么意思，对吧？
What is it to feel what another feels?
感受别人的感受是什么？
What it means is that their seesaw is driving your seesaw.
这意味着他们的跷跷板正在驱动你的跷跷板。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Your seesaw is somehow driving their seesaw.
你的跷跷板在某种程度上驱动着他们的跷跷板。
That there's a match in terms of the tilt of those seesaws.
那些跷跷板的倾斜度是匹配的。
Now, it doesn't have to be an exact match, right?
现在，它不必是完全匹配的，对吧？
If someone that you really care about is very, very stressed, you could also become very stressed.
如果你真正关心的人压力非常非常大，你也可能会变得非常有压力。
That's a form of empathic matching, and there are, indeed, neural circuits for that.
这是移情匹配的一种形式，而且确实存在这样的神经回路。
I'll describe what those neural circuits are in a moment.
稍后我将描述这些神经回路。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sometimes, the best role for us to take is actually one in which we are calm when the person that we care about or that we are romantically involved with is very, very anxious.
有时，对我们来说最好的角色实际上是当我们关心的人或与我们恋爱的人非常非常焦虑时，我们保持冷静。
In a few minutes, I'll talk about how matching of emotional tone can be good or bad for the stability of a relationship, and complementarity of autonomic matching can be good or bad.
几分钟后，我将讨论情绪基调的匹配对于关系的稳定性可能是好还是坏，以及自主匹配的互补性可能是好还是坏。
In other words, sometimes it's beneficial for a relationship to go into the same state as the other.
换句话说，有时一段关系进入与另一方相同的状态是有益的。
Sometimes, it's more beneficial for us to not go into the same state as the other.
有时，不进入与对方相同的状态对我们更有利。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The important feature here is that when we talk about emotional matching or empathy, or going into the same state or not going into the same state, what we are really talking about is whether or not the autonomic seesaw of one individual is driving the autonomic seesaw of the other individual.
这里的重要特征是，当我们谈论情感匹配或同理心，或者进入相同状态或不进入相同状态时，我们真正谈论的是一个人的自主跷跷板是否正在驱动另一个人的自主跷跷板。
This is a vital principle for how we fall in love and form attachments.
这是我们如何坠入爱河并形成依恋的重要原则。
It's actually a part of the desire and mating process itself.
它实际上是欲望和交配过程本身的一部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I would go so far as to say that one of the prerequisites to the propagation and expansion of our species is this notion of autonomic regulation and, to some extent, matching of autonomic nervous systems.
我什至可以说，我们物种繁殖和扩张的先决条件之一就是自主调节的概念，以及在某种程度上自主神经系统的匹配。
Let me explain what I mean.
让我解释一下我的意思。
Last I checked, the only way that new humans can be created is by way of sperm meeting egg.
上次我检查过，创造新人类的唯一方法是精子与卵子相遇。
Either in body or in dish, but sperm meets egg, and then, typically, nine months later, we have a human baby.
无论是在体内还是在培养皿中，精子与卵子相遇，通常九个月后，我们就会生出一个人类婴儿。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The process of bringing sperm to egg, mating behavior, sex behavior in humans is one of autonomic regulation.
人类将精子带入卵子、交配行为、性行为的过程都是自主调节的过程之一。
What I mean by that is the process of finding a mate, and in this case I mean actually someone to mate with, typically, while scenarios vary, typically is one of elevated autonomic arousal.
我的意思是寻找伴侣的过程，在这种情况下，我指的是实际上要与之交配的人，虽然情况各不相同，但通常是一种增强的自主神经唤醒。
Meaning increased activation of the so-called sympathetic nervous system.
意味着所谓的交感神经系统的激活增加。
This is related to dopamine release, and it's related to epinephrine release.
这与多巴胺的释放有关，也与肾上腺素的释放有关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There has to be a pursuit, or at least there has to be a mobilization to arrive in the same location whereby one can mate, right?
必须有一种追求，或者至少必须有一种动员才能到达可以交配的同一地点，对吧？
That almost always is the case.
情况几乎总是如此。
However, the sexual arousal itself is, in both males and females, is actually driven primarily by the parasympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system.
然而，无论男性还是女性，性唤起本身实际上主要是由自主神经系统的副交感神经驱动的。
While pursuit is one of alertness and sympathetic drive, as we say, again, sympathy is not really what's at play here.
虽然追求是一种警觉和同情心的驱动力，但正如我们所说，同情心并不是真正起作用的。
The word sympa means together.
sympa 这个词的意思是在一起。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The activation of the autonomic nervous system toward more alert state is because of a sympathetic nervous system, meaning the coactivation together of many neurons in the brain and spinal cord.
自主神经系统向更警觉状态的激活是由于交感神经系统，这意味着大脑和脊髓中的许多神经元共同激活。
The actual physiological arousal state that we call sexual arousal is predominantly parasympathetically driven.
我们称之为性唤起的实际生理唤起状态主要是副交感神经驱动的。
Okay?
好的？
To be quite direct about this, if the sympathetic nervous system activation is too high, the sexual arousal response cannot happen in either males or in females.
直接地说，如果交感神经系统激活太高，无论男性还是女性都不会发生性唤起反应。
It's inhibited.
它被抑制了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
However, the orgasm and ejaculation response, which if you think about it, is required for sperm to meet egg, is sympathetic-driven.
然而，仔细想想，精子与卵子相遇所需的性高潮和射精反应是交感神经驱动的。
After orgasm and ejaculation, the parasympathetic nervous system kicks back in, and there's a calming and relaxation.
性高潮和射精后，副交感神经系统重新启动，带来平静和放松。
The arc of mating involves sympathetic arousal, okay?
交配的弧线涉及交感神经的唤起，好吗？
Not sympathy, but alertness and arousal for pursuit.
不是同情，而是警觉和追求的唤醒。
Then a tilt of the seesaw, at least to some degree for arousal of the sort that we typically hear of, of sexual arousal.
然后是跷跷板的倾斜，至少在某种程度上是为了我们通常听到的那种性唤起。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Then at the point of orgasm and ejaculation, is back to a sympathetic response.
然后在性高潮和射精时，又回到交感神经反应。
How can I say that?
我怎么能这么说呢？
How do I know that?
我怎么知道呢？
The sympathetic nervous system, meaning neurons within the sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system, are what drive ejaculation and orgasm.
交感神经系统，即自主神经系统交感臂内的神经元，是驱动射精和性高潮的因素。
Then afterward, there's a return to increased parasympathetic activation.
然后，副交感神经的激活又恢复增加。
We don't know for sure why that happens, but it's thought that in species that pair-bond, humans, generally a pair-bond, not always.
我们不确定为什么会发生这种情况，但人们认为，在配对的物种中，人类通常是配对的，但并非总是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The return to more parasympathetic activation after orgasm and ejaculation is thought to increase the exchange of pheromonal odors and to increase pillow talk and pair-bonding of different kinds.
性高潮和射精后副交感神经恢复更多的激活被认为会增加信息素气味的交换，并增加枕边谈话和不同种类的夫妻关系。
Okay?
好的？
That's the seesaw going back and forth, is actually built into the process by which our entire species propagates.
这就是来回的跷跷板，实际上是我们整个物种繁殖过程中的一部分。
In some ways, every human is required to navigate that process if they want their offspring to persist.
在某些方面，如果每个人都希望自己的后代能够延续下去，就必须经历这个过程。
Of course, nowadays, there are technologies like in vitro fertilization, intrauterine insemination.
当然，现在有体外受精、宫腔内人工授精等技术。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are a variety of ways that technology has allowed people to circumvent the actual physical mating process in the way that I described.
技术可以通过多种方式让人们以我所描述的方式规避实际的物理交配过程。
By and large, that's the way it's done.
总的来说，事情就是这样完成的。
Certainly, that's the way it was done historically for, if not tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years.
当然，这就是历史上的做法，即使不是数万年或数十万年。
That process is also what happens in all mammalian species that mate.
这个过程也发生在所有交配的哺乳动物物种中。
Okay?
好的？
I'm overlooking an entire literature of animal studies; the classic studies of this were done by two individuals.
我忽略了整个动物研究文献；这方面的经典研究是由两个人完成的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'll just briefly mention them in case you want to look at the literature.
如果您想查看文献，我将简要提及它们。
There's a guy at the Rockefeller University named Donald Pfaff, P-F-A-F-F, who has done beautiful studies identifying the neural circuitry of what's called the lordosis response.
洛克菲勒大学有一个名叫唐纳德·普法夫（Donald Pfaff）的人，他做了出色的研究，确定了所谓的脊柱前凸反应的神经回路。
Unlike in humans, the mating behavior of animals is rather stereotyped in terms of the positions that they occupy.
与人类不同，动物的交配行为根据其所处的位置而相当固定。
The lordosis response is a kind of a U-shaping or a bending up of the hind quarters of, typically of rodents, but of other animals as well.
脊柱前凸反应是一种 U 形或后躯弯曲的现象，通常是啮齿类动物，但也适用于其他动物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The male mounting is almost always from behind, except in some species of primates.
除某些灵长类动物外，雄性几乎总是从后面骑上。
That lordosis response is only going to occur during particular phases of the estrous cycle.
这种脊柱前凸反应只会发生在动情周期的特定阶段。
The estrous cycle is sort of the analog to the menstrual cycle, but it's not 28 days.
发情周期有点类似于月经周期，但不是 28 天。
It's four days or some other duration in other animals, depending on the animal.
对于其他动物来说，这个时间是四天或其他持续时间，具体取决于动物。
The lordosis response is strongly regulated by odors, by contact and is estrogen and testosterone-controlled.
脊柱前凸反应受到气味、接触的强烈调节，并且受雌激素和睾酮的控制。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The male portion of the mating sequence in animals, the mounting and thrusting and ejaculation, as they're called, or mounting, thrusting, intromission and ejaculation, those are the four scientific categories that have been described.
动物交配过程中的雄性部分，即所谓的骑乘、插入和射精，或者骑乘、插入、插入和射精，这些是已描述的四个科学类别。
That's present in rodents and also in-
它存在于啮齿动物中，也存在于-
PART 1 OF 4 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 1 部分（共 4 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
Stories that have been described.
已经描述过的故事。
That's presence in rodents and also in dogs, where it was primarily studied by Frank Beach, who was at University of California, Berkeley, for a long time.
这种现象存在于啮齿类动物和狗身上，主要由加州大学伯克利分校的弗兰克·比奇（Frank Beach）长期研究。
And the entire literature around the neural circuitry for sexual and mating behavior in animals largely stemmed from the work of Donald and Frank Beach and their scientific offspring, not their actual offspring.
围绕动物性行为和交配行为的神经回路的全部文献很大程度上源于唐纳德和弗兰克·比奇及其科学后代的工作，而不是他们真正的后代。
You can look at that literature if you like.
如果你愿意的话，你可以看看那些文献。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There have been human neuroimaging studies of the process that I described a few minutes ago, believe it or not.
不管你信不信，已经对我几分钟前描述的过程进行了人类神经影像学研究。
Of people in brain scanners, not necessarily mating with other people, but going through that arc of arousal, sympathetic activation during orgasm or, and then the postejaculatory or orgasmic phase in both men and women and the brain areas associated with those have all been mapped out now.
在大脑扫描仪中，人们不一定要与其他人交配，但男性和女性都会经历性唤起、交感神经激活的弧线，然后是射精后或性高潮阶段，以及与这些相关的大脑区域，现在都已被绘制出来。
The spinal cord areas that control things like erection, vaginal lubrication, and orgasm, those have also been mapped out.
控制勃起、阴道润滑和性高潮等的脊髓区域也已被绘制出来。
And this has all been explored from the perspective of both basic science, just to get an understanding of how our species has sexual interactions and reproduces, but also from the perspective of, for instance, trying to repair sexual function after spinal cord injury, which is a prominent concern for a lot of people, depending on where they have their injury, but in the number of people that have spinal cord injuries.
这一切都是从基础科学的角度进行探索的，只是为了了解我们的物种如何进行性相互作用和繁殖，而且还从例如脊髓损伤后尝试修复性功能的角度进行了探索，这对很多人来说是一个突出的担忧，这取决于他们受伤的部位，但取决于脊髓损伤的人数。
So this is both vital biological and clinical data.
所以这都是重要的生物学和临床数据。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The neural circuits for everything that I just described reside in the autonomic nervous system and are coordinated with the neural circuits that are associated with empathy.
我刚才描述的所有事物的神经回路都存在于自主神经系统中，并与与同理心相关的神经回路协调一致。
The neural circuits for empathy, again, there are many, but mainly two structures that you should know about: the prefrontal cortex, which is how we perceive things outside of us and make decisions on the basis of those perceptions, how we organize those decisions.
同样，同理心的神经回路有很多，但主要是两个你应该了解的结构：前额叶皮层，它是我们感知外部事物并根据这些感知做出决定的方式，以及我们如何组织这些决定的方式。
And an area of the brain called the insula, I-N-S-U-L-A.
大脑的一个区域称为岛叶，I-N-S-U-L-A。
The insula is a really interesting brain area that allows us to interocept, to pay attention to what's going on inside our body and to split some of our attention to exterocept.
岛叶是一个非常有趣的大脑区域，它使我们能够进行内感受，关注我们体内发生的事情，并将我们的一些注意力分散到外感受上。
And the mating dance, whether or not it's the dinner and date portion of the mating dance or the actual physical dance part of the main dance, or actual mating and sexual behavior, kissing or otherwise, that is a coordinated activity of two bodies; typically it's two.
而求偶舞，无论是求偶舞的晚餐和约会部分，还是主舞的实际身体舞蹈部分，或者是实际的交配和性行为，接吻或其他，都是两个身体的协调活动；通常是两个。
I realize sometimes it's more, sometimes it's only one, but typically it's two bodies, and at least in the framework we're using here, that coordinated dance is one in which the autonomic nervous system of one individual, in general, is coordinating with the autonomic nervous system of the other individual.
我意识到有时它更多，有时它只有一个，但通常它是两个身体，至少在我们在这里使用的框架中，协调舞蹈是一个人的自主神经系统通常与另一个人的自主神经系统协调的舞蹈。
And the insula is essentially splitting one's attention between how we feel ourselves, how our body feels, what we're thinking, with the thinking and the bodily sensations of the other.
脑岛本质上是将一个人的注意力分散在我们自己的感觉、身体的感觉、我们的想法以及他人的想法和身体感觉之间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that can be communicated obviously through words.
这可以通过言语明显地传达出来。
It can be communicated through sounds, it can be communicated through touch, and it can be communicated through a number of more subtle cues like pupil size or whether or not, certainly in cases where we recognize the person and we kind of know their responses, their autonomic responses under different conditions, we can assess it, is the person comfortable.
它可以通过声音来传达，可以通过触摸来传达，还可以通过许多更微妙的线索来传达，比如瞳孔大小，或者，当然，在我们认出这个人的情况下，我们知道他们的反应，他们在不同条件下的自主反应，我们可以评估它，这个人是否舒服。
Are they uncomfortable?
他们不舒服吗？
Are they more focused on me or on themselves?
他们更关注我还是他们自己？
This is the coordinated silent dance that if we look at in neurobiological terms, we can really see is all about the autonomic nervous system, whether or not it's time to tip the seesaw to one side or the other, depending on whether or not the other person's seesaw is tilted higher or lower than the other.
这是一种协调的无声舞蹈，如果我们从神经生物学的角度来看，我们真的可以看到，这一切都与自主神经系统有关，是否该将跷跷板向一侧或另一侧倾斜，取决于另一个人的跷跷板是否比另一个人倾斜得更高或更低。
Okay, so we have the autonomic nervous system, and then we have this thing that we're calling empathy, which is really about autonomic matching.
好的，我们有自主神经系统，然后我们有我们称之为同理心的东西，这实际上与自主匹配有关。
And again, the insula and the prefrontal cortex are neural circuits that are crucial for autonomic matching, because they allow us to say, "What's out there and do I want to match to it or not?" Okay?
再次强调，岛叶和前额叶皮层是对于自主匹配至关重要的神经回路，因为它们让我们能够说：“外面有什么，我是否想要匹配它？”好的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then the third category of neural circuit that Helen Fisher and others have found to be important for desire, love, and attachment is the neural circuit associated with self-delusion.
海伦·费舍尔和其他人发现对欲望、爱情和依恋很重要的第三类神经回路是与自我欺骗相关的神经回路。
Well, what do we mean by that?
那么，我们这是什么意思呢？
Well, first of all, self-delusion implies a kind of cynicism about love and attachment.
嗯，首先，自欺欺人意味着一种对爱和依恋的愤世嫉俗。
And I think it was George Bernard Shaw that said, "Love is really about overestimating the differences between individuals." Actually, when I hear that, and as I say it, I really don't like that quote.
我认为萧伯纳曾说过：“爱情实际上就是高估个体之间的差异。”事实上，当我听到这句话时，正如我所说的那样，我真的不喜欢这句话。
I have no bone to pick with George Bernard Shaw, but what it suggests, and I think what he meant was that in love and attachment, we tend to put so much value in the other that we forget that many of the processes that are going on in our brain and body actually could be evoked by many other people too.
我对萧伯纳没有什么意见，但它所暗示的，我认为他的意思是，在爱和依恋中，我们往往太看重对方，以至于我们忘记了我们大脑和身体中发生的许多过程实际上也可以由许多其他人引起。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I think it somewhat overlooks the enormous power of attachment, and the ways in which somebody smell, somebody's voice, somebody's everything, or somebody's particular thing or things can really become so vital for our autonomic nervous system to feel soothed, and to feel elated, et cetera.
但我认为它在某种程度上忽视了依恋的巨大力量，以及某人的气味、某人的声音、某人的一切、或者某人的某件事物对于我们的自主神经系统感到安抚、感到高兴等等变得如此重要的方式。
So I think that while the quote is accurate, in the one sense, I think it does overlook the neural circuits for attachment and just how deeply wired those can become for us.
所以我认为，虽然这句话是准确的，但从某种意义上说，我认为它确实忽视了依恋的神经回路，以及这些神经回路对我们来说有多深的连接。
So I will balance that quote with an enormous number of other quotes that I won't mention, but that you can find out there, that really point to how incredible the person is that one tends to be attached to that.
因此，我将把这句话与大量我不会提及的其他引言进行平衡，但你可以在那里找到，这确实表明了一个人倾向于依附于此的人是多么令人难以置信。
There's really only one or several of people that could ever exist that could evoke those feelings from us.
实际上只有一个或几个人能够唤起我们的这种感觉。
And of course, you can read your Neruda poetry, and you can find these things all over the place in music, and poetry and writing.
当然，你可以阅读聂鲁达的诗歌，你可以在音乐、诗歌和写作中找到这些东西。
So for every cynical quote about these neural circuits being generic and could be activated by anybody, I think you'll find an ample number of opposing quotes that these neural circuits can only be activated by that special someone, or that particular person, or maybe in just a small set of those people.
因此，对于每一个关于这些神经回路是通用的并且可以被任何人激活的愤世嫉俗的引用，我想你会发现大量相反的引用，即这些神经回路只能由那个特殊的人，或者那个特定的人，或者可能只是这些人中的一小部分人激活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what of delusion?
那么妄想又如何呢？
Well, the work of Helen Fisher and others has really pointed to the fact that desire, love, and attachment are three separate phases of what we call romantic relationships.
嗯，海伦·费舍尔和其他人的工作确实指出了这样一个事实：欲望、爱和依恋是我们所谓的浪漫关系的三个不同阶段。
That typically, not always, but typically, desire tends to come first, or falls in the early phase, that the process of romantic/sexual interactions, it doesn't necessarily have to be sex itself, but certainly something that involves intimacy of some kind, right?
通常，并非总是，但通常，欲望往往是第一位的，或者在早期阶段出现，在浪漫/性互动的过程中，它不一定必须是性本身，但肯定涉及某种亲密关系，对吗？
And generally, touch of some kind eventually transitions into what we call love, which eventually transitions into what we call attachment.
一般来说，某种接触最终会转变为我们所说的爱，最终转变为我们所说的依恋。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I should just mention touch because touch is a fundamental aspect of this whole process.
我应该提到触摸，因为触摸是整个过程的一个基本方面。
There's an article, a research article, I should say, the title of it is "Relationship-specific encoding of social touch in somatosensory and insular cortices," "cortices" being cortexes, plural, cortices, And again, there's our friend the insula.
有一篇文章，一篇研究文章，我应该说，它的标题是“体感和岛叶皮质中社交接触的特定关系编码”，“皮质”是皮质，复数，皮质，还有我们的朋友岛叶。
So this is a study that explored what brain areas and what body areas are activated by specific forms of attachment and social touch.
因此，这是一项研究，探讨特定形式的依恋和社交接触会激活哪些大脑区域和哪些身体区域。
And what they found, not surprisingly, is that the areas of the brain that are associated with touch, the somatosensory areas, but more interestingly, the insula cortex, are strongly activated by touch.
毫不奇怪，他们发现大脑中与触摸相关的区域（体感区域，但更有趣的是岛叶皮层）会被触摸强烈激活。
So touch and the amount of touching, and proximity, and skin contact, not surprisingly activates brain areas associated with somatosensory touch, but also the insular cortex, which again is this brain area that links the internal — our feelings about what's going on inside us and at the surface of our skin — with events external.
因此，触摸、触摸的次数、接近度和皮肤接触，毫不奇怪地激活了与体感触摸相关的大脑区域，同时也激活了岛叶皮层，岛叶皮层又是一个将内部（我们对内部和皮肤表面发生的事情的感觉）与外部事件联系起来的大脑区域。
And they found activation of a number of brain areas: the amygdala, orbital, frontal cortex, and so on and so on.
他们发现许多大脑区域被激活：杏仁核、眼眶、额叶皮层等等。
That's not as essential as just understanding that the insula is the place in which we start to take our experience of our internal landscape, attach that to our perceptions of the external landscape, and then assign that a value or assign that some sort of interpretation.
这并不重要，重要的是要了解岛叶是我们开始获取内部景观经验的地方，将其与我们对外部景观的感知联系起来，然后赋予其价值或赋予某种解释。
And positive delusion is predictive of long-term attachment.
积极的妄想预示着长期的依恋。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What do we mean by positive delusion?
积极妄想是什么意思？
Positive delusion is the contradiction of that George Bernard Shaw quote.
积极的错觉是萧伯纳名言的矛盾之处。
It's the belief that only this person can make me feel this way.
我相信只有这个人才能让我有这样的感觉。
This other person holds the capacity to make me feel this way physically, or emotionally or both.
这个人有能力让我在身体上、情感上或两者上都有这种感觉。
And so as we move from desire, to love, to attachment, our brain circuitry is literally getting tuned up such that that individual that we happen to be attached to, again here thinking about monogamous relationships, but I guess for a nonmonogamous relationship it'd be individuals, is and are the way in which our autonomic nervous system can be regulated.
因此，当我们从欲望，到爱，到依恋时，我们的大脑回路实际上正在调整，这样我们碰巧依恋的那个人，再次在这里考虑一夫一妻制的关系，但我想对于非一夫一妻制的关系来说，它是个体，是我们的自主神经系统可以调节的方式。
They actually get access to our control panel.
他们实际上可以访问我们的控制面板。
So it's our autonomic nervous system, empathy and this positive delusion.
所以这是我们的自主神经系统、同理心和这种积极的错觉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, positive delusion is critical.
现在，积极的妄想至关重要。
If you look at the stability of relationships over time, something that's been extensively studied mainly by psychologists, but now also by neurobiologists, what you find is that there are some key features of interactions between individuals that predict that a relationship will last, and those are many, but mainly fall under this category of positive delusions.
如果你观察关系随着时间的推移的稳定性，这主要是心理学家广泛研究的，但现在神经生物学家也对此进行了广泛研究，你会发现个体之间的互动有一些关键特征可以预测一段关系会持续下去，这些特征很多，但主要属于积极妄想的范畴。
I'll return to those and what those exactly look like, but there are also just a handful of things that predict that a relationship will fail over time.
我将回到这些以及它们到底是什么样子，但也只有少数事情可以预测一段关系会随着时间的推移而失败。
This is largely the work of the Gottmans, it's actually a husband and wife team up at the University of Washington in Seattle.
这主要是 Gottman 夫妇的作品，实际上是西雅图华盛顿大学的一对夫妻团队的作品。
The Gottmans have run a laboratory in the Department of Psychology for a long time.
戈特曼夫妇长期在心理学系经营一个实验室。
They've also done a lot of public facing work around relationships, and they've talked about the various aspects of relationships and interactions between people that predict either staying together or breaking up.
他们还围绕人际关系做了很多面向公众的工作，他们讨论了人们之间关系和互动的各个方面，这些方面预测着要么在一起要么分手。
So much so that they've established a method by which they can look at video interactions between couples and with very high degree of certainty, predict whether or not those couples will stay together or break up over time.
以至于他们建立了一种方法，可以通过观察情侣之间的视频互动，并以非常高的确定性预测这些情侣是否会随着时间的推移继续在一起或分手。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they've identified what they call the Four Horsemen of relationships.
他们已经确定了所谓的关系四骑士。
These are things that essentially almost always predict that a couple will break up.
这些事情基本上总是预示着一对情侣将会分手。
And I think the current number on this is that Gottman can predict divorce with 94% accuracy, which if you think about it, is pretty remarkable.
我认为目前的数据是，戈特曼可以以 94% 的准确率预测离婚，如果你仔细想想，这是相当了不起的。
So even though these are purely psychological studies — I'm not aware of any analyses of underlying physiology — there are some things that they can observe between couples that can lead them to predict whether or not a couple will stay together or break up, with 94% accuracy.
因此，尽管这些纯粹是心理学研究——我不知道有任何对潜在生理学的分析——但他们可以在夫妻之间观察到一些事情，这些事情可以让他们预测夫妻是否会继续在一起还是分手，准确率高达 94%。
So what are those things?
那么那些东西是什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Those four behaviors, what they call the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse for relationships are, one: criticism, two: defensiveness, three: stonewalling, and four: contempt.
这四种行为，他们称之为人际关系中的天启四骑士，一是批评，二是防御，三是阻挠，四是蔑视。
With contempt being the most powerful predictor of breaking up.
蔑视是分手最有力的预兆。
Criticism, of course, does not mean that there's no place for criticism in stable relationships.
当然，批评并不意味着在稳定的关系中没有批评的余地。
Of course there is.
当然有。
It has to do with how frequent and how intensely that criticism is voiced.
这与批评的频率和强烈程度有关。
Defensiveness, of course, defensiveness we know as the sort of lack of ability to hear another or to adopt their stance.
当然，防御性，我们所知道的防御性是缺乏倾听他人意见或采取他们的立场的能力。
So lack of empathy, I think, is one way to interpret defensiveness.
因此，我认为缺乏同理心是解释防御性的一种方式。
Stonewalling, which is actually another form of lack of empathy; it's a turning off of this neural circuit that's so critical for desire, love, and attachment.
拖延，这实际上是缺乏同理心的另一种形式；这是对欲望、爱和依恋至关重要的神经回路的关闭。
The stonewalling essentially means the emotional response or the request of another is completely cut off.
阻挠本质上意味着情绪反应或另一个人的请求被完全切断。
So I don't think there's been brain imaging of this, but I think we can reasonably imagine that it involves untethering your insula response from the other and what they're dealing with and focusing your insular response, no pun intended, on your own internal state or perhaps the state of someone else entirely.
所以我不认为有这方面的大脑成像，但我认为我们可以合理地想象，它涉及将你的岛叶反应从其他人以及他们正在处理的事情中解脱出来，并将你的岛叶反应（没有双关语）集中在你自己的内部状态或可能完全是别人的状态上。
We'll talk about infidelity in a moment.
我们稍后会讨论不忠。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then contempt.
然后就是鄙视。
And contempt has actually been referred to as the sulfuric acid of relationship.
而蔑视实际上已经被称为硫酸的关系。
I didn't say that, but Gottman and colleagues have, that it is such a powerful predictor of divorce and breakups in the future.
我没有这么说，但戈特曼和同事们说过，它是未来离婚和分手的有力预测因素。
And contempt, of course, by definition is the feeling that a person or thing is beneath consideration, worthlessness or deserving scorn.
当然，根据定义，蔑视是指认为一个人或一件事受到重视、毫无价值或值得蔑视的感觉。
And apparently they can identify this in the videos of couples having discussions and interacting, by very elaborate eye rolls, by expressions of anger in one individual when their partner is actually expressing enthusiasm or excitement about something.
显然，他们可以在夫妻讨论和互动的视频中识别这一点，通过非常精细的翻白眼，当他们的伴侣实际上对某件事表达热情或兴奋时，一个人表达愤怒。
It's the, "Oh yeah, you would say that." Or deep-seated resentment toward the other, so much so that it's apparent that one kind of actively dislikes the other partner.
就是“哦，是的，你会这么说。”或者对另一方根深蒂固的怨恨，以至于明显地一种积极地不喜欢另一方。
So, contempt.
所以，鄙视。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Disregard for something that should be taken into account is the other way to think about it.
忽视应该考虑的事情是另一种思考方式。
That runs counter to all of the neural circuits, all three of the neural circuits that we talked about before.
这与所有神经回路，我们之前讨论过的所有三个神经回路背道而驰。
It certainly, it is the antithesis of empathy.
当然，它是同理心的对立面。
It is anything but a positive delusion; it's really looking at the other individual, either accurately or inaccurately, as somebody that you kind of despise.
这绝不是一种积极的错觉。它实际上是把另一个人，无论是准确的还是不准确的，视为你所鄙视的人。
And then, it is an absolute inversion of the autonomic seesaw matching that I was talking about before.
然后，这就是我之前谈到的自主跷跷板匹配的绝对反转。
It's a dissociating of your seesaw from their seesaw.
这是你的跷跷板与他们的跷跷板的分离。
They're very excited about something, you're unexcited by it.
他们对某件事非常兴奋，而你却对此不兴奋。
In fact, it's an inversion of their seesaw, where they're excited, you're down.
事实上，这是他们的跷跷板的倒置，他们兴奋，你沮丧。
They're down, you are up.
他们倒下了，你却起来了。
Okay?
好的？
So it's basically an inversion of all of the neural circuits that Helen Fisher and others have identified as critical for desire, love, and attachment, and therefore, it's not surprising that it is so strongly predictive of breakups.
因此，这基本上是海伦·费舍尔和其他人认为对欲望、爱情和依恋至关重要的所有神经回路的反转，因此，它如此强烈地预测分手也就不足为奇了。
And in the case of married couples, of divorce.
对于已婚夫妇来说，离婚也是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For those of you that are interested in the work of the Gottmans and similar work, they've written several popular books.
对于那些对戈特曼夫妇的作品和类似作品感兴趣的人，他们写了几本受欢迎的书籍。
They're fairly easy to find; we can link to one of those in the caption, but they've also developed some quite interesting online resources in their so-called Love Lab.
它们很容易找到；我们可以链接到标题中的其中一个，但他们还在所谓的“爱情实验室”中开发了一些非常有趣的在线资源。
I guess it's fortunate that they didn't call it the Hate Lab or the Breakup Lab, because they've focused a lot on what predicts breakups, but they've also written extensively, and researched extensively, in peer-reviewed studies, what makes people find appropriate partners for them and to maintain those partnerships over time.
我想幸运的是，他们没有将其称为“仇恨实验室”或“分手实验室”，因为他们非常关注预测分手的因素，但他们也在同行评审的研究中进行了大量的写作和研究，了解是什么让人们为他们找到合适的伴侣，并随着时间的推移维持这些伙伴关系。
So you can search for "Love Lab, University of Washington, Gottman," or any number of their various books.
因此，您可以搜索“Love Lab，华盛顿大学戈特曼分校”或任意数量的各种书籍。
I think you'll find some useful resources there.
我想您会在那里找到一些有用的资源。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to shift back to the work of Helen Fisher.
我想回到海伦·费舍尔的作品上。
She's made some very interesting statements and some very interesting observations that, at least to my mind, map very well onto the knowledge of neural circuitry, both in humans and in nonhuman primates and in other species.
她做了一些非常有趣的陈述和一些非常有趣的观察，至少在我看来，这些都很好地映射了人类、非人类灵长类动物和其他物种的神经回路知识。
I realized that she's not the only name in the game, but she's made some observations that I think are very, as we say, parsimonious, meaning they allow us to organize a lot of this stuff into some distinct frameworks.
我意识到她并不是游戏中唯一的名字，但她提出了一些我认为非常简约的观察，这意味着它们允许我们将很多这样的东西组织到一些不同的框架中。
She's also done some really beautiful studies that involve data from millions, or even tens of millions of individuals on dating sites, so I'm going to share those with you in a moment.
她还做了一些非常精彩的研究，涉及约会网站上数百万甚至数千万个人的数据，所以我稍后将与您分享这些数据。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But before I do that, I just want to paraphrase Dr. Fisher, who said that sex drive or desire, the pursuit of someone to mate with, meaning to mate the verb, not necessarily to find a mate, may be, she didn't say definitively, but maybe a way to forage for potential love partners.
但在我这样做之前，我只想解释费舍尔博士的说法，她说，性冲动或欲望，追求与之交配的人，意思是“交配”动词，不一定是为了找到一个伴侣，也许是，她没有明确地说，但也许是寻找潜在爱情伴侣的一种方式。
That the arc of this whole business is really the order that we're describing it, that it's desire, then love and then attachment.
整个事情的弧线实际上就是我们所描述的顺序，即欲望，然后是爱，然后是依恋。
And that oftentimes, people can get confused, You may know some of these people, you may be one of these individuals who might confuse desire for attachment, or might confuse love for attachment, but that there's a sequence of recruitment of these neural circuits that's established first from the pursuit of someone to mate with.
人们常常会感到困惑，你可能认识其中一些人，你可能是这些人中的一员，他们可能会混淆对依恋的渴望，或者可能会将爱与依恋混淆，但这些神经回路的招募顺序是首先从追求某人交配而建立的。
And she's placed in the context of more modern dating themes where depending on culture, people might explore several, maybe many, many individuals before quote, unquote settling down with somebody, at least for some period of time.
她被置于更现代的约会主题的背景下，根据文化的不同，人们可能会在引用或取消引用与某人安定下来之前探索几个，也许很多很多人，至少在一段时间内是这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think that's an interesting framework, because it circumvents a lot of the, frankly, unanswerable questions about whether or not humans were meant to be monogamous or whether or not they weren't.
我认为这是一个有趣的框架，因为坦率地说，它回避了许多无法回答的问题，例如人类是否应该实行一夫一妻制。
Those are conversations that hold cultural context, that hold all sorts of contexts that really can't be addressed in a laboratory setting.
这些对话包含文化背景，包含各种在实验室环境中无法解决的背景。
But this idea that sex drive is a way to forage for potential love partners, and that love is a kind of litmus test for whether or not longer term or deeper attachments can and will form is one that at least makes sense to me.
但性欲是寻找潜在爱情伴侣的一种方式，而爱情是一种试金石，可以检验是否能够形成更长期或更深入的依恋，这种想法至少对我来说是有意义的。
Later in the episode we'll talk about this notion of sex drive and desire.
在本集后面，我们将讨论性欲和欲望的概念。
I'll actually talk about some tools that have very strong data, really, to support them in terms of things that people can do or take to increase libido, both men and women, because there's actually quite good data on that now.
实际上，我会谈论一些拥有非常强大数据的工具，以支持人们可以做或采取的事情来增加男性和女性的性欲，因为现在实际上有相当好的数据。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But in the meantime, I want to talk about some of the work that Dr. Fisher has done in terms of categorizing people into ...
但与此同时，我想谈谈费舍尔博士在将人们分类为……方面所做的一些工作。
again, we have four groups.
同样，我们有四个小组。
These are distinct from the A, B, C, and D attachment styles described earlier, although as I described them, you might be able to map them somewhat onto those.
这些与前面描述的 A、B、C 和 D 附件样式不同，尽管正如我所描述的，您也许能够将它们映射到这些样式上。
And these four groups are groups that were defined through her studies of people that were or are, I don't know if they were or if they are still on match.com, but a very extensive data set.
这四个群体是通过她对曾经或现在的人的研究来定义的，我不知道他们是否曾经或仍然在 match.com 上，但这是一个非常广泛的数据集。
So again, millions if not tens of millions of individuals.
再说一次，即使不是数千万，也有数百万人。
The number I heard her quote, and forgive me if this is not accurate, is that in upwards of 40 million individuals, in terms of whether or not their neurochemical and hormone systems are tuned toward particular types of behaviors.
我听到她引用的数字是，如果这不准确，请原谅我，在超过 4000 万人中，他们的神经化学和激素系统是否针对特定类型的行为进行了调整。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What do I mean by that?
我这么说是什么意思？
Well, both men and women, males and females, have both testosterone and estrogen, typically.
嗯，男性和女性，男性和女性，通常都含有睾酮和雌激素。
Again, these are averages, but typically men have more testosterone than they do estrogen, and they have more testosterone than do women and less estrogen than do women.
同样，这些只是平均值，但通常男性的睾酮水平高于雌激素水平，并且他们的睾酮水平高于女性，而雌激素水平则低于女性。
Typically, women have more estrogen than they do testosterone, again averages, and they have less testosterone than men, more estrogen than men and so on and so forth.
通常情况下，女性体内的雌激素含量比睾酮含量高，同样是平均水平，她们的睾酮含量比男性少，雌激素比男性多，依此类推。
But both hormone systems are active in both sets of individuals.
但两种激素系统在两组个体中都很活跃。
And of course, all humans, as far as we know, manufacture both dopamine and serotonin.
当然，据我们所知，所有人类都会产生多巴胺和血清素。
Dopamine, as I mentioned earlier, has a number of effects in the brain and body, but one of the primary effects is that it places us into states of motivation and pursuit for various things.
正如我之前提到的，多巴胺对大脑和身体有多种影响，但主要影响之一是它使我们进入对各种事物的动力和追求状态。
There is a somewhat close relationship between the dopamine system and the testosterone system in the hypothalamus, this brain area above the roof of your mouth and the pituitary gland, which is responsible for making hormones that make the ovaries and or testes secrete testosterone or estrogen.
下丘脑中的多巴胺系统和睾酮系统之间存在某种密切的关系，下丘脑是口腔顶部上方的大脑区域和脑下垂体，负责制造使卵巢和/或睾丸分泌睾酮或雌激素的激素。
So there's a lot of signaling that occurs, such that dopamine and testosterone tend to operate as kind of close cousins in a system of pursuit.
因此，会发生很多信号传导，例如多巴胺和睾酮在追求系统中往往像近亲一样发挥作用。
And conversely, the serotonin system tends to, on average, collaborate with the estrogen system to impart certain physiological functions and behaviors.
相反，平均而言，血清素系统倾向于与雌激素系统协作，以赋予某些生理功能和行为。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So these aren't hard and fast, or I guess better stated, these aren't strict black-and-white categorizations, but I think those general themes hold when you look at the animal and human data.
因此，这些并不是一成不变的，或者我想更好地说，这些不是严格的黑白分类，但我认为当你查看动物和人类数据时，这些一般主题是成立的。
So, Dr. Fisher has taken some liberties, but I think they are what I would call logically and scientifically and neurobiologically grounded liberties in classifying individuals who are on these dating sites, according to the types of things they report about themselves and the type of people they tend to match with on these dating sites, and created these four categories.
因此，费舍尔博士采取了一些自由，但我认为这些自由是我所谓的逻辑上、科学上和神经生物学基础上的自由，根据他们报告的有关自己的事情类型以及他们在这些交友网站上倾向于匹配的人的类型，对这些交友网站上的个人进行分类，并创建了这四个类别。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The four categories are, she calls one the Dopamine Category.
她将这四个类别称为“多巴胺类别”。
So these are people who would have high dopamine, and again, that's just a name.
所以这些人的多巴胺水平很高，再说一次，这只是一个名字。
It doesn't mean they have low anything else, but they are high on the dopamine scale.
这并不意味着他们的其他物质水平较低，但他们的多巴胺水平较高。
People who rate high on the dopamine scale tend to be what the scientists and psychologists call, "high sensation seeking," "novel seeking," they like new things, they like spontaneity, they tend to be very adventurous, and I think that's largely true if you look at conditions where dopamine is supraphysiological, it's elevated beyond abnormal levels.
多巴胺水平高的人往往是科学家和心理学家所说的“寻求高感觉”、“寻求新奇”，他们喜欢新事物，他们喜欢自发性，他们往往非常喜欢冒险，我认为如果你观察多巴胺超生理的情况，这在很大程度上是正确的，它升高到超出了异常水平。
Things like mania, or when people take certain drugs of abuse like cocaine or amphetamine that really raise dopamine levels up very, very high for some period of time, they do tend to increase energy, motivation, and novelty seeking.
像躁狂症这样的事情，或者当人们服用某些滥用药物（如可卡因或安非他明）在一段时间内确实使多巴胺水平非常非常高时，他们确实会增加精力、动力和对新奇事物的追求。
And of course drugs like amphetamine and cocaine have all sorts of deleterious effects that I don't need to go into here, but it's worth pointing out.
当然，像安非他明和可卡因这样的药物具有各种有害作用，我不需要在这里详细说明，但值得指出。
But they don't tend to make people calm and relaxed and seek soothing interactions.
但它们往往不会让人平静和放松，也不会寻求舒缓的互动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Conversely, the group that Dr. Fisher calls the Serotonin Group tend to be more grounded in soothing activities, quiescent-type activities, on average, they tend to like rules and follow rules.
相反，费舍尔博士称之为“血清素组”的群体往往更注重舒缓活动、静止型活动，平均而言，他们倾向于喜欢规则并遵守规则。
They tend to be homebodies, this sort of thing.
他们往往是宅男，诸如此类。
They're really, you can imagine them the sort of stable types, but they really like stability, they're not really into spontaneity as much.
他们确实是，你可以想象他们是那种稳定的类型，但他们真的喜欢稳定，他们不太喜欢自发性。
Again, averages.
再次，平均。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then she created two other categories, the Testosterone Category of high testosterone.
然后她创建了另外两个类别，即高睾酮的睾酮类别。
This again could be males or females.
这又可能是男性或女性。
And then the Estrogen Category again could be males or females.
然后雌激素类别又可以是男性或女性。
And she gave these different names that I won't go into here, you can look up her work online, but names like the Director, and the Follower and things like that.
她给了这些不同的名字，我不会在这里详细介绍，你可以在网上查找她的作品，但是像“导演”、“追随者”之类的名字。
But I don't really want to use those as much as I want to stick to the biological terms.
但我真的不想使用这些，因为我想坚持生物学术语。
So we have dopamine, serotonin, testosterone, and estrogen.
所以我们有多巴胺、血清素、睾酮和雌激素。
Now that might seem like an unfair kind of overgeneralization, but what's interesting is not necessarily the name or the neurochemical system.
现在这似乎是一种不公平的过度概括，但有趣的不一定是名称或神经化学系统。
Those could have just been called category one, two, three and four for all that matters here; what is interesting is seeing how those different groups of individuals that she absolutely can categorize based on their self-reported preferences about behaviors and certain kinds of interactions, how those groups tend to pair up with people in the same or opposite categories.
对于这里重要的所有内容，这些可以被称为第一类、第二类、第三类和第四类；有趣的是，她可以根据自我报告的对行为和某些类型的互动的偏好对不同的个人群体进行分类，以及这些群体如何倾向于与相同或相反类别的人配对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what her studies reveal is that people that fall into the high sensation-seeking, novelty-seeking, spontaneity category, the one that she calls the high dopamine category, tend to pair up with, at least in the short term, tend to pair up with people who are also in that dopaminergic category.
因此，她的研究表明，那些属于高度寻求感觉、寻求新奇、自发性类别（她称之为高多巴胺类别）的人，倾向于与同样属于该多巴胺类别的人配对，至少在短期内是这样。
So, these would be people that would spontaneously take a trip, or explore something new or a new restaurant.
因此，这些人会自发地去旅行，或者探索新事物或新餐厅。
They tend to be creative and explorative types.
他们往往是富有创造力和探索精神的类型。
So, that group on average, tends to date and mate and potentially form long-term relationships within category.
因此，该群体平均倾向于约会和交配，并有可能在类别内形成长期关系。
Again, averages.
再次，平均。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Individuals that she placed into the serotonin group or the, what she hypothesized would be a high serotonin group, again, they didn't measure serotonin, but people that tend to place value on stability, on rules, on certain forms of kind of traditional organization at home and in relationships, those people also tended to pair up with, select, date, we presume mate with, and form stable relationships with people in the same category.
她将其归入血清素组或她假设的高血清素组的人，同样，他们没有测量血清素，但那些倾向于重视稳定性、规则、家庭和人际关系中某些形式的传统组织的人，这些人也倾向于与同一类别的人配对、选择、约会，我们认为与之配对，并与同一类别的人形成稳定的关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, individuals in the other two categories, the high testosterone group, and again, testosterone wasn't measured, but she called it the high testosterone group, but these are people that tend to be very directive, they tend to know what they want, and are comfortable telling other people what they want and from them, these are individuals that in her studies and in other studies, tend to be a little bit challenging, meaning not necessarily challenging to be around, but they tend to challenge other people, kind of push them in order to expand their boundaries, either for sake of the relationship or just in general.
现在，其他两类中的个体，即高睾酮组，同样，睾酮没有被测量，但她称之为高睾酮组，但这些人往往很有指导性，他们往往知道自己想要什么，并且很乐意告诉别人他们想要什么，从他们那里，这些人在她的研究和其他研究中，往往有点挑战性，这意味着不一定具有挑战性，但他们倾向于挑战其他人，有点推动他们以扩大他们的界限，要么是为了关系，要么只是一般而言。
And the people they tend to push, the people that they pair up with, which are the people in the estrogen category, which she called high estrogen.
他们倾向于推动的人，与他们配对的人，都是雌激素类别的人，她称之为高雌激素。
Again, they didn't measure estrogen, but the people in the estrogen category were the ones that describe themselves, and their choices in life and their preferences as being nurturing.
同样，他们没有测量雌激素，但雌激素类别中的人是那些描述自己、以及他们在生活中的选择和他们的偏好的人。
They actually seem to like it when someone else is making the major decisions.
他们实际上似乎喜欢由其他人做出重大决定。
Not every decision, they certainly like to be heard, of course, in terms of their preferences, but that those two types, what she called the testosterone and the estrogen-type tend to pair up.
当然，并不是每一个决定都喜欢被听到，当然，就他们的喜好而言，但这两种类型，她所说的睾丸激素和雌激素类型往往是配对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So why are these categorizations and these averages interesting to me, at least interesting enough to convey to you?
那么，为什么这些分类和这些平均值对我来说很有趣，至少足以传达给你呢？
The reason they're interesting to me is again, not because of their names, these molecules were not measured in these individuals, but that they once again bring us to the themes that we addressed before, which are the autonomic nervous system and whether or not it tends to be shifted more towards alertness and action, or more towards kind of a stable equilibrium, or more towards kind of calm, and whether or not individuals are selecting for people who have autonomic nervous systems that are more or less like theirs before they even meet.
我对它们感兴趣的原因又不是因为它们的名字，这些分子没有在这些个体中进行测量，而是它们再次把我们带到了我们之前讨论过的主题，即自主神经系统，以及它是否倾向于更多地转向警觉和行动，或者更倾向于某种稳定的平衡，或更倾向于平静，以及个体是否会在他们见面之前选择具有或多或少类似于他们的自主神经系统的人。
Right?
正确的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So again, going back to the seesaw analogy, it's almost like people who have the kind of flat seesaw: alert but calm, but not extremely alert, not extremely overly calm in situations, but kind of in the middle, seem to be seeking out people that are also at that kind of autonomic equilibrium.
再次回到跷跷板的类比，这几乎就像有那种扁平跷跷板的人：警觉但冷静，但不是极度警觉，在情况下不是极度过度冷静，而是介于中间，似乎正在寻找同样处于这种自主平衡状态的人。
People in what she called the dopamine category, which are really ...
她所谓的多巴胺类别的人，实际上是......
can just be described as high sensation-seeking, novelty-seeking, they seem to want to pair with one another.
可以用高度追求感觉、追求新奇来形容，他们似乎想要彼此配对。
So there's a selection for similar, in two of the groups, autonomic tone.
因此，在两组中选择相似的自主音调。
I find that very interesting because in that decision or that preference for similar autonomic tone, it essentially eliminates a lot of the requirement for figuring out how to match one's autonomic nervous system to another; they simply find someone with a similar tendency.
我发现这非常有趣，因为在这个决定或对类似自主神经基调的偏好中，它基本上消除了弄清楚如何将一个人的自主神经系统与另一个人的自主神经系统相匹配的很多要求；他们只是找到有类似倾向的人。
Whereas in the other two groups that she called testosterone and estrogen, the director type and the nurturing kind of somewhat follower type, there's an establishment of balance, but not in between two individuals as a match, but rather, on the whole in the relationship, one person is kind of driving the novelty seeking and the course of decisions, and actions, and the other person is essentially agreeing to those.
而在她称之为睾丸激素和雌激素的另外两组中，即导演型和培养型有点追随者型，存在一种平衡的建立，但不是在两个人之间作为匹配，而是在整个关系中，一个人在某种程度上推动了新奇的寻求以及决策和行动的过程，而另一个人基本上同意这些。
Now, assuming that those decisions are good for both people.
现在，假设这些决定对双方都有好处。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I emphasize, "Good for both people" because one of the themes that Dr. Fisher underscores that I'd like to underscore here as well is that it need not be the case that people pair up exactly according to these categorizations that I've described: dopamine with dopamine, serotonin with serotonin, testosterone with estrogen, and so on.
我强调，“对双方都有好处”，因为费舍尔博士强调的主题之一，我也想在这里强调的是，人们不必完全按照我所描述的这些分类进行配对：多巴胺与多巴胺，血清素与血清素，睾酮与雌激素，等等。
What is important is that there be a recognition and a respect for the other types, or a recognition and a respect for the fact that both are of the same type.
重要的是对其他类型的认识和尊重，或者对两者属于同一类型这一事实的认识和尊重。
You could actually imagine, for instance, that two people of this high sensation-seeking, novelty-seeking could have a terrifically exciting relationship, but that it actually might be a relationship in which the financial stability isn't quite there, or in which the basic stability isn't there.
例如，你实际上可以想象，两个高度追求感觉、追求新奇的人可能会拥有一种非常令人兴奋的关系，但实际上这种关系可能不具备财务稳定性，或者不具备基本稳定性。
You could imagine, for instance, a situation in which a relationship between two people of what she called the high serotonin preference would have a relationship that was actually kind of dull, in which both of them found themselves kind of bored at some point, or in which there wasn't enough of the dynamic tension that sometimes is required in order to keep this cycle of desire, love, and attachment going.
例如，你可以想象这样一种情况，两个人之间的关系，她所说的高血清素偏好，实际上是一种乏味的关系，他们俩都在某个时刻发现自己有点无聊，或者没有足够的动态张力，而这种张力有时是维持欲望、爱和依恋的循环所必需的。
Something that we will talk about in a moment.
我们稍后会讨论一些事情。
So-
所以——
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 2 部分（共 4 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
...
...
love and attachment going, something that we will talk about in a moment.
爱和依恋的发生，我们稍后会讨论。
So, the point here is not that one should necessarily pair up according to these arrangements that I described.
因此，这里的要点并不是必须按照我描述的这些安排进行配对。
The point is that, on average, that's what tends to happen, and that through a recognition that these categorizations exist, similar to the recognition that the type A, B, C, and D infant and toddler-type attachments exist, that we can gain better self-awareness of who we are and how we tend to show up in romantic attachments, and thereby navigate healthier mate seeking, healthier breakups, if the case dictates it, and in some cases, healthy long-term relationships by understanding that the other person can either be similar or complementary to us.
关键是，平均而言，这就是往往会发生的情况，并且通过认识到这些分类的存在，类似于认识到 A、B、C 和 D 型婴儿和幼儿型依恋的存在，我们可以更好地了解自己是谁以及我们倾向于如何在浪漫依恋中表现出来，从而引导更健康的择偶、更健康的分手（如果情况需要的话），并且在某些情况下，通过了解对方可以建立健康的长期关系。与我们相似或互补。
One is neither better than the other.
其中一个并不比另一个更好。
It's simply the case that in all romantic attachments from the initial inception of that romantic attachment, desire, love and attachment, there is an autonomic coordination.
情况很简单，在所有浪漫的依恋中，从最初的浪漫依恋、欲望、爱和依恋开始，就存在着一种自主协调。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of course there's coordination of all sorts of other things like food, sex and sleep and finances and where people are going to live and many other features, but that at the core of all that is a seeking of either autonomic likeness or autonomic differences.
当然，还有各种其他事物的协调，例如食物、性、睡眠、财务、人们将居住的地方以及许多其他特征，但这一切的核心是寻求自主相似或自主差异。
I think that recognition can be extremely valuable in thinking about tools to enter and maintain relationships if one thinks about their autonomic nervous system not simply as something that is driven by external people and events, but that we can actually gain some control over through techniques of the sort that I talked about earlier and on previous podcasts.
我认为，如果一个人不仅将自主神经系统视为由外部人和事件驱动的东西，而且我们实际上可以通过我之前和之前的播客中谈到的那种技术来获得一些控制权，那么在思考进入和维持关系的工具时，认可是非常有价值的。
But also generally, if we are able to adjust our autonomic nervous system in order to at least appreciate or get some empathy into what someone else is experiencing, then we gain actual cognitive empathy.
但一般来说，如果我们能够调整我们的自主神经系统，以便至少欣赏或对其他人正在经历的事情产生一些同理心，那么我们就获得了真正的认知同理心。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This episode isn't about empathy per se, but the theme keeps coming up again and again, and I think it's worth mentioning that when you talk to psychologists, whether or not they're psychoanalysts or from another source of training, what you find is that they don't talk about empathy as a general term.
这一集本身并不是关于同理心，但这个主题不断出现，我认为值得一提的是，当你与心理学家交谈时，无论他们是精神分析师还是来自其他培训来源，你会发现他们不会将同理心作为一个通用术语来谈论。
They will talk about emotional empathy, they'll talk about cognitive empathy.
他们会谈论情感同理心，他们会谈论认知同理心。
And what I'm talking about here today is that yet a third category that is very strongly determinant of relationship dynamics, and that's autonomic empathy.
我今天在这里谈论的是第三个类别，它对关系动态具有非常强烈的决定性作用，那就是自主同理心。
I'm a biologist, I'm not a psychologist, so I love mechanism.
我是一名生物学家，不是心理学家，所以我喜欢机制。
Fortunately, there are studies that have been done recently using modern techniques to look at neural mechanisms of romantic attachment.
幸运的是，最近有一些研究使用现代技术来研究浪漫依恋的神经机制。
I mentioned earlier some of the brain imaging studies that have been done on child and mother, literally imaging the activity of neurons in the brain as child is nursing or as a mother is soothing baby, and as you learned earlier, baby is soothing mother as well.
我之前提到过一些针对孩子和母亲进行的大脑成像研究，实际上是对孩子在哺乳时或母亲在安抚婴儿时大脑中神经元的活动进行成像，正如您之前了解到的，婴儿也在安抚母亲。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Those are remarkable studies.
这些都是非凡的研究。
You may have seen some of these pictures online.
您可能在网上看过其中一些图片。
You can see the kind of silhouette of the infant and mother and their brains and even some of the brain activation patterns, really, really beautiful studies.
你可以看到婴儿和母亲的轮廓以及他们的大脑，甚至一些大脑激活模式，真的非常漂亮的研究。
Similar studies have been done in romantic couples with those couples either touching one another, touching and kissing, or in clever, I think, control experiments of the person just touching a pillow or something, or kissing a pillow in order to try and create the most reasonable control for what are actually pretty complicated interpersonal dynamics to do in a brain imaging scanner.
在浪漫的情侣中也进行了类似的研究，这些情侣要么互相触摸，触摸和亲吻，要么进行巧妙的控制实验，我认为，控制实验的人只是触摸枕头或其他东西，或者亲吻枕头，以便尝试为大脑成像扫描仪中实际上相当复杂的人际动态创建最合理的控制。
But some of the other studies that have been done recently involved so called EEG, so these are electrical recordings that are done noninvasively, putting a bunch of electrodes on the outside of the scalp.
但最近进行的其他一些研究涉及所谓的脑电图，因此这些是非侵入性进行的电记录，将一堆电极放在头皮外部。
EEG is useful in that you can do it noninvasively.
脑电图很有用，因为您可以无创地进行。
You can do it while people are moving and doing things, kissing, touching, et cetera.
你可以在人们移动、做事、接吻、触摸等时进行。
It doesn't allow one to image or to evaluate neural activity very deeply in the brain, so you can miss out on a lot of things.
它不允许人们对大脑深处的神经活动进行成像或评估，因此你可能会错过很多事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's sort of like looking at the wave structure on the ocean without actually looking into the depths of the ocean, so you can miss certain things, but if you see things, generally you trust they are there, but you can't see what you don't see.
这有点像在没有真正观察海洋深处的情况下观察海洋上的波浪结构，所以你可能会错过某些东西，但如果你看到东西，通常你相信它们在那里，但你看不到你没有看到的东西。
Nonetheless, there's some studies that I'll just point you to and that form the segue for what I'm going to discuss in a moment, which is a study published in Scientific Reports, in 2021, entitled, "Investigating real-life emotions in romantic couples: A mobile EEG study." This is, as the title suggests, having people wear these EEG caps of electrodes, engage in very passionate emotional kisses, emotional speech toward one another, standing at different distances.
尽管如此，我只想向您指出一些研究，这些研究构成了我稍后要讨论的内容，这是一项发表在 2021 年《科学报告》上的研究，题为“调查浪漫情侣的现实生活情绪：一项移动脑电图研究”。正如标题所暗示的，这是让人们佩戴这些脑电图电极帽，进行非常热情的情感亲吻，彼此进行情感演讲，站在不同的距离。
So, a lot of cool stuff that you can do that you really couldn't do in a brain scanner, because in a brain scanner, people have to be there usually in a bite bar.
所以，你可以做很多很酷的事情，但在脑部扫描仪中确实无法做到，因为在脑部扫描仪中，人们通常必须在咬吧里。
They're actually jaw fixed like this.
他们的下巴实际上是这样固定的。
I've been in one of these things.
我曾经经历过其中一件事情。
There's not a lot of moving around to be had, at least not using the current technology.
不需要太多的移动，至少不使用当前的技术。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In any case, what they found was there is a shift in brain waves, brain states.
无论如何，他们发现脑电波和大脑状态发生了变化。
Things like alpha waves, just a particular frequency of brain waves in the neocortex, the outer shell of the brain just beneath the skull.
像阿尔法波这样的东西，只是新皮质中脑电波的特定频率，新皮质是颅骨下方大脑的外壳。
In people that are kissing or in people that are engaged in romantic speech, or I didn't actually hear what they said to one another, but what the couple, seems exciting romantic and arousing to them, they see more alpha wave activity compared to the control conditions.
在接吻的人或正在进行浪漫演讲的人中，或者我实际上没有听到他们彼此说了什么，但是这对夫妇似乎令人兴奋的浪漫和唤起他们的东西，与控制条件相比，他们看到更多的阿尔法波活动。
There was some what we call lateralization, where the left hemisphere was more active than the right, and so forth.
有一些我们所说的偏侧化，即左半球比右半球更活跃，等等。
These studies are important because we know that the autonomic nervous systems of individuals tend to start to collaborate and actually synchronize at the level of heartbeats, at the level of breathing during romantic interactions of different kinds.
这些研究很重要，因为我们知道，在不同类型的浪漫互动中，个体的自主神经系统往往会开始协作，并在心跳水平、呼吸水平上实际上实现同步。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But these studies are some of the first of their kind to start looking at neural synchronization between individuals.
但这些研究是此类研究中首次开始研究个体之间神经同步的研究。
Now, the simple version of looking at this, and the way I would've thought this would all go was, okay, two people start kissing, they start talking about what they find particularly romantic and arousing for them, and their brainwaves will just match to one another.
现在，看这个问题的简单版本，以及我认为这一切都会发生的方式是，好吧，两个人开始接吻，他们开始谈论他们认为特别浪漫和兴奋的事情，他们的脑电波将彼此匹配。
That's really the basis of romantic attachment and romantic engagement, and that sort of thing.
这确实是浪漫依恋和浪漫订婚之类的基础。
But it turns out that the opposite is true.
但事实证明事实恰恰相反。
A really nice study published in a really fine journal, Cerebral Cortex is a journal that I've known about for many years, they publish strong anatomy, physiology and neuroimaging, there's a study that was published, first author Kaji Murra, and this paper really points ...
一项非常好的研究发表在一本非常好的期刊上，《大脑皮层》是一本我已经知道很多年的期刊，他们发表了强大的解剖学、生理学和神经影像学文章，有一项研究已经发表，第一作者 Kaji Murra，这篇论文确实指出了......
again, this is 2021, and the title of this paper is "Brain knows who is on the same wavelength: Resting-state connectivity can predict compatibility of female-male relationship."
再说一遍，现在是 2021 年，这篇论文的标题是“大脑知道谁在同一波长上：静息状态连接可以预测女性与男性关系的兼容性”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, what this study did was a little bit different.
现在，这项研究所做的有点不同。
They looked at the resting or default mode activity of the brain.
他们观察了大脑在休息或默认模式下的活动。
So, rather than evoked activity, as it's called, where people are kissing or are engaged in some sort of activity, this was a neuroimaging study, not EEG, but fMRI, functional magnetic resident imaging, which is similar to EEG in principle, but allows you to look deep into the brain, and it has a very good resolution in time and space, so fast events can be monitored, and the precise location of those events can be monitored somewhat better than EEG.
所以，这不是所谓的诱发活动，即人们接吻或从事某种活动，而是一项神经影像学研究，不是脑电图，而是功能磁共振成像，功能性磁驻留成像，它在原理上与脑电图类似，但可以让你深入大脑，并且它在时间和空间上有很好的分辨率，因此可以监控快速事件，并且可以比脑电图更好地监控这些事件的精确位置。
There are exceptions to this, so for you EEGers out there, EEG, don't come after me with electrodes.
也有例外，所以对于你们脑电图爱好者来说，脑电图，不要拿着电极来追我。
Just understand that fMRI gives you a fuller picture of what's going on, and what Kaji Murra et al.
只需了解功能磁共振成像可以让您更全面地了解正在发生的事情以及 Kaji Murra 等人所做的事情。
found was that contrary to what your reflexive prediction might be, people tend to select people that have resting brain states that are different than theirs, or sometimes they found that are actually opposite to their own resting brain state.
我们发现，与你的反射性预测相反，人们倾向于选择那些与自己的静息大脑状态不同的人，或者有时他们发现实际上与自己的静息大脑状态相反。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You might say, "Well, that doesn't make any sense.
你可能会说：“好吧，这没有任何意义。
I thought this is all about autonomic coordination." But actually, if we go back to Helen Fisher's categorizations of the dopamine types, the sensation-seeking types, that is serotonin, the stable rule-following types, testosterone and estrogen types, remember that the two categories that she called testosterone and estrogen type, the director and the follower, the nurturer, I guess it would be the more accurate way, the director and the nurturer, those tend to pair up across categories, not within category.
我认为这完全取决于自主协调。”但实际上，如果我们回到海伦·费舍尔对多巴胺类型、感觉寻求类型（即血清素）、稳定的规则遵循类型、睾酮和雌激素类型的分类，请记住她称之为睾酮和雌激素类型的两个类别，即指导者和追随者、养育者，我想这将是更准确的方式，即引导者和养育者，它们倾向于跨类别配对，而不是在类别内配对。
So, I think what's really needed for this field, which to my knowledge hasn't happened yet, is to really start to map the neuroanatomical and neurophysiological findings of, in this case, that resting brain state is in one form in one individual, and they tend to seek out people whose resting brain state is different than theirs, not similar.
因此，我认为这个领域真正需要的是真正开始绘制神经解剖学和神经生理学发现，在这种情况下，静息大脑状态在一个人身上以一种形式存在，据我所知，这还没有发生，他们倾向于寻找静息大脑状态与他们不同而不是相似的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That needs to be mapped onto the more subjective psychological categorizations that Helen Fisher, and indeed, the Gottmans and others have created.
这需要映射到海伦·费舍尔以及戈特曼夫妇和其他人创建的更主观的心理分类上。
That's sort of the state of the field now.
这就是目前该领域的现状。
I mention this not to confuse you, but to the contrary, to illustrate that it's not just about finding someone just like you, and it's not just about finding someone who's opposite to you.
我提到这一点并不是为了迷惑你，而是为了说明，这不仅仅是要找到一个和你一样的人，也不仅仅是要找到一个与你相反的人。
This is actually the reason that I decided to become a biologist at some point in my life, which is that we can find verbal sayings and stories and examples to support just about anything.
这实际上是我决定在人生的某个时刻成为一名生物学家的原因，因为我们可以找到口头说法、故事和例子来支持任何事情。
This is not a knock on the field of psychology, as you can probably tell from today's episode.
从今天的节目中您可能可以看出，这并不是对心理学领域的攻击。
I have great respect for and reverence for the field of psychology, especially its collaboration with neuroscience and vice versa.
我非常尊重和崇敬心理学领域，尤其是它与神经科学的合作，反之亦然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But in the popular culture, we can find examples and sayings that support essentially anything as it relates to a relationship.
但在流行文化中，我们可以找到基本上支持任何与关系相关的例子和说法。
For instance, I've heard, and you've probably heard, absence makes the heart grow fonder.
例如，我听说过，你也可能听说过，缺席会让心变得更亲近。
Indeed, I've experienced that and I believe it's true.
确实，我经历过这一点，并且我相信这是真的。
But I also have experienced and I believe to be true that out of sight, out of mind also exists, and that there will be a biological mechanism for that.
但我也经历过，而且我相信这是真的，眼不见心不烦也存在，而且会有一种生物机制。
The point here is that matching of same to same or same to different can both be effective in creating the desire, love, attachment process.
这里的要点是，相同与相同或相同与不同的匹配都可以有效地创造欲望、爱、依恋过程。
It's a matter of who is looking for same and who is looking for different.
问题在于谁在寻找相同的东西，谁在寻找不同的东西。
There I think Dr. Fisher and the work of these neurophysiologists and brain imagers really does point in a direction whereby there is not one form of attachment that is going to be wholly above all else and will predict good outcomes.
我认为费舍尔博士以及这些神经生理学家和大脑成像仪的工作确实指出了一个方向，即没有一种依恋形式可以完全高于一切并预测良好的结果。
There is not going to be a case in which opposites attract and that's always the best rule to follow.
不会出现异性相吸的情况，这始终是最好遵循的规则。
Sometimes it will, sometimes it won't.
有时会，有时不会。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There is also not the case that people tend to pair up with similar.
也不存在人们倾向于与相似的人配对的情况。
Sometimes it will be the case, sometimes it won't.
有时会这样，有时不会。
Now, there are certain statistics that support that statement.
现在，有一些统计数据支持这一说法。
For instance, on average, people pair up with individuals of similar educational background, income and attractiveness.
例如，平均而言，人们会与具有相似教育背景、收入和吸引力的人配对。
That is true on average, but it's not always the case.
平均而言确实如此，但情况并非总是如此。
Again, a knowledge of and a respect for the different categorizations of attachment, the different categorizations of mate-seeking described by Fisher and others, and the recognition that matching of autonomic nervous systems, but also mismatching of resting state brain networks are all at play in driving what we are calling desire, love, and attachment.
同样，对依恋的不同分类、费舍尔等人所描述的求偶的不同分类的了解和尊重，以及认识到自主神经系统的匹配，以及静息状态大脑网络的不匹配，都在驱动我们所谓的欲望、爱和依恋的过程中发挥作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, in keeping with the exploration of the fact that there's a saying or a book or a song or an example of pretty much any relationship dynamic, I want to now talk about an article that came out a little over 10 years ago that talked about the universality of love and the ability to fall in love.
因此，为了与对几乎所有关系动态都有一句谚语、一本书、一首歌或一个例子这一事实的探索保持一致，我现在想谈谈十多年前发表的一篇文章，其中谈到了爱的普遍性和坠入爱河的能力。
This would be very much in line with the George Bernard Shaw quote that I mentioned earlier, that love is really overestimating the differences between individuals.
这非常符合我之前提到的萧伯纳的名言，即爱情确实高估了个体之间的差异。
Again, I should say that is not something that I personally believe, although maybe I'm just deluding myself.
再说一次，我应该说，这不是我个人相信的事情，尽管也许我只是在欺骗自己。
I like to think that the people that we fall in love with are really special for us, that they could not easily be replaced with anybody else.
我喜欢认为我们爱上的人对我们来说真的很特别，他们不能轻易被其他人取代。
That's simply my stance.
这就是我的立场。
I'm not basing that on any hardcore neurobiological mechanism.
我并不是基于任何核心神经生物学机制。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But nonetheless, an article was published in The New York Times in 2015 that related to some psychological studies that were done, as well as some clinical work, as well as what I would call pop psychology or things that fall outside the domains of academic science.
但尽管如此，2015 年《纽约时报》发表了一篇文章，涉及一些已经完成的心理学研究、一些临床工作，以及我所说的流行心理学或不属于学术科学领域的东西。
The whole basis of this article was 36 questions that lead to love.
这篇文章的全部基础是 36 个通往爱情的问题。
It involved a listing out, indeed, of 36 questions divided into set one, set two, and set three, that progress from somewhat ordinary questions about life experience and self-report to more, let's call them deep questions about people's values and things that are emotionally close to them.
事实上，它列出了 36 个问题，分为第一组、第二组和第三组，这些问题从一些关于生活经历和自我报告的普通问题发展到更多，让我们称之为关于人们的价值观和情感上与他们密切相关的事物的深刻问题。
I'll just give an example of a few of these.
我仅举其中几个例子。
You can find this easily online by just putting it into your search engine, 36 questions that lead to love.
只需将其放入搜索引擎中，您就可以轻松地在网上找到此内容，即 36 条引发爱情的问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some of the questions in set number one were, for instance, what would constitute a perfect day for you?
例如，第一组中的一些问题对您来说是完美的一天？
For what in your life do you feel most grateful?
在你的一生中，你最感激的是什么？
Kind of standard questionnaire stuff.
一种标准问卷的东西。
In set two, what is your most treasured memory?
第二集，你最珍贵的记忆是什么？
What was your most terrible memory?
你最可怕的记忆是什么？
These, as you can tell, are drilling a little bit deeper into one's personal experience and emotional system.
正如你所知，这些正在更深入地探究一个人的个人经历和情感系统。
Then set three, questions 25 through 36, are things, what is a very embarrassing moment in your life?
然后设置三，问题25到36，是事情，什么是你生活中非常尴尬的时刻？
When did you last cry in front of another person and by yourself?
您最后一次在别人面前哭泣是什么时候？
What is something that's too serious to be joked about?
有什么事情太严重而不能开玩笑？
So, it's going deeper into one's emotional system.
所以，它正在深入一个人的情感系统。
Even questions like, of all the people in your family, whose death would you find most disturbing and why?
甚至像这样的问题，在你家里的所有人中，你觉得谁的死最令人不安，为什么？
So, pretty heavy stuff there at the end.
所以，最后有相当沉重的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, the reason this article got so much traction and the reason I'm bringing it up today is that there was a statement that was made in and around this article that if two people went on a date or simply sat down and asked each other these questions, and each answered these questions and the other was paying attention carefully, and at some level emotionally responding or not responding, but certainly paying attention to the answers of the other person, that by the end of that exchange, where one person asks 36 questions and the other person answers all 36, and then the other person asks all 36 and the other person answers all 36, that they would fall in love, which seems like kind of a ridiculous thing.
现在，这篇文章受到如此大的关注以及我今天提出它的原因是，在这篇文章中和周围有一个声明，如果两个人去约会或只是坐下来互相问这些问题，并且每个人都回答了这些问题，而另一个人则仔细地注意，并且在某种程度上情绪化地回应或不回应，但肯定会注意对方的答案，那么到交流结束时，一个人问了 36 个问题，另一个人回答了全部 36 个问题，并且然后另一个人问全部36个，另一个人回答全部36个，他们会坠入爱河，这似乎是一件可笑的事情。
Yet, it is the case that people who go through this exercise report feeling as if they know the other person quite well and feeling certain levels of attachment or even love and desire for the other person that they would not have predicted, excuse me, would not have predicted had they not gone through that process.
然而，事实是，经历过这个练习的人报告说，他们感觉好像他们非常了解对方，并对对方产生一定程度的依恋，甚至是爱和渴望，这是他们无法预料到的，对不起，如果他们没有经历这个过程，他们就不会预料到。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, what's going on in this exchange of questions and answers of a progressively more emotional and deep level?
那么，这种日益情感化、更深层次的问答交流到底发生了什么？
Well, what I predict is going on is that inside of that exchange, people are creating a sort of delusional story about the nature of the exchange being a reflection of some deeper attachment.
嗯，我预测正在发生的是，在这种交流中，人们正在创造一种妄想的故事，认为这种交流的本质是某种更深层次依恋的反映。
So, even though people are just exchanging words, they're not physically touching, at least not at the point where they're running these kinds of questionnaire studies, they may touch afterwards for all I know, and probably did in some cases, but they're not exchanging life experience in an immediate way.
因此，即使人们只是交换言语，他们也不会进行身体接触，至少在进行此类问卷调查时不会，据我所知，他们之后可能会接触，并且在某些情况下可能会接触，但他们不会立即交换生活经历。
They're not actually going off into the world and doing things together yet.
他们还没有真正走向世界并一起做事。
They are simply exchanging narrative.
他们只是在交换叙述。
But we know, based on recent studies, and I've covered this before on this podcast, but I'll mention again, there was a study published in Cell Reports, Cell Press journal, excellent journal, showing that when individuals listen to the same narrative, their heart rates tend to synchronize or at least follow a very similar pattern, even if they're not in the same room listening to a given narrative.
但我们知道，根据最近的研究，我之前在这个播客上已经介绍过这一点，但我会再次提到，有一项研究发表在《细胞报告》（Cell Reports）、《细胞新闻》（Cell Press）杂志、优秀杂志上，表明当个体听相同的叙述时，他们的心率往往会同步或至少遵循非常相似的模式，即使他们不在同一个房间里听特定的叙述。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whereas in this case, people are facing one another, listening to the narratives of each other.
而在这种情况下，人们面对面，聆听彼此的叙述。
Certainly they are having autonomic responses, and it stands to reason that their autonomic nervous systems are synchronizing much in the same way that the Cell Reports study found that people will synchronize their autonomic nervous systems to a shared heard story from another.
当然，他们有自主反应，而且按理说，他们的自主神经系统正在同步，就像细胞报告研究发现的那样，人们会将他们的自主神经系统同步到另一个人分享的听到的故事。
In other words, whether or not we hear a story, watch a movie, listen to a song or exchange our own individual stories, our autonomic nervous systems have the potential to map onto one another.
换句话说，无论我们是否听故事、看电影、听歌曲或交换我们自己的个人故事，我们的自主神经系统都有可能相互映射。
So, I'm not all that surprised that people find that they "fall in love" after answering these questions to one another, because essentially the way these questions are laid out is they establish a narrative.
因此，当人们发现他们在互相回答这些问题后“坠入爱河”时，我并不感到惊讶，因为从本质上讲，这些问题的提出方式是它们建立了一种叙述。
They establish a very personal narrative, and the other person is listening very closely.
他们建立了非常个人化的叙述，而对方则非常仔细地倾听。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We don't have physiological or brain imaging studies to support what I'm about to say, but the reasonable interpretation is that that's causing some sort of autonomic synchronization.
我们没有生理学或大脑成像研究来支持我要说的话，但合理的解释是，这导致了某种自主同步。
So, if you want to try this on a date, or even it's actually been hypothesized that this could be useful for existing couples even if they already know the answers to some of these questions, and that doesn't surprise me either.
所以，如果你想在约会时尝试这个，或者甚至实际上有人假设这对现有夫妇可能有用，即使他们已经知道其中一些问题的答案，这也不会让我感到惊讶。
I think the autonomic coordination is present during mating behavior, it's present during shared experience of the outside world, movies, concerts, watching one's children with somebody else, et cetera, and it's established by sharing one's own narrative of their own personal experience.
我认为自主协调存在于交配行为中，存在于共同体验外部世界、电影、音乐会、与他人一起观看自己的孩子等过程中，并且它是通过分享自己对自己个人经历的叙述而建立的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, I don't want to seem overly reductionist.
所以，我不想显得过于还原论。
I'll never propose that all of our sensation, perception, action and experience in life boils down to us just being bags of chemicals and the action of those chemicals or any aspect of our nervous system, and yet in looking across the psychological literature of development of attachment, in the psychological literature of adult and romantic attachment and what makes and breaks those attachments, it's very clear to me, and I think courses through the literature at multiple levels, that autonomic coordination is absolutely key for the establishment of desire, love, and attachment.
我永远不会认为我们生活中所有的感觉、知觉、行动和经历都可以归结为我们只是一袋化学物质以及这些化学物质的作用或我们神经系统的任何方面，然而，在纵观依恋发展的心理学文献中，在成人和浪漫依恋的心理学文献中，以及是什么造成和破坏这些依恋的心理学文献中，我很清楚，而且我认为通过多个层面的文献课程，自主协调绝对是建立欲望、爱和依恋的关键。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In fact, I talked earlier about how our actual conception is born out of autonomic coordination of one sort or another.
事实上，我之前谈到过我们的实际概念是如何从某种自主协调中诞生的。
So, again, it doesn't necessarily mean that autonomic nervous systems always be synchronized.
因此，这并不一定意味着自主神经系统总是同步的。
In the case of the two categorizations that Fisher proposed of the director/testosterone type and the nurturing follower/estrogen type, it was actually the coordination, but in opposite directions of individuals that fall into each of those categories that led to more stable attachments or the seeking out of those attachments, I should say.
就费舍尔提出的导演/睾酮类型和培育追随者/雌激素类型的两种分类而言，我应该说，实际上是属于这些类别的个体之间的协调，但方向相反，导致了更稳定的依恋或对这些依恋的寻求。
But nonetheless, it's at least, to my mind, very clear that autonomic coordination is a hallmark feature of desire, a hallmark feature of what we call love, and a hallmark feature of what we call attachment, and that the breaking of attachments or the failures of desire, the failures of love and the failures of attachment over time, in line with the work of Gottman and others, and in even just simply what's required for mating behavior, is also reflected in the autonomic nervous system.
但尽管如此，至少在我看来，非常清楚的是，自主协调是欲望的标志性特征，是我们所谓的爱的标志性特征，也是我们所谓的依恋的标志性特征，随着时间的推移，依恋的破裂或欲望的失败、爱的失败和依恋的失败，与戈特曼和其他人的工作一致，甚至只是交配行为所需的东西，也反映在自主神经系统中。
But in that case, a failure to coordinate the autonomic nervous systems in some sort of concerted way.
但在这种情况下，自主神经系统无法以某种一致的方式协调。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Any discussion about desire, love and attachment would be incomplete if we didn't talk about the dreaded infidelity and cheating.
如果我们不谈论可怕的不忠和欺骗，任何关于欲望、爱和依恋的讨论都是不完整的。
Much has been made of infidelity and cheating, and whether or not people who are higher on dopamine and sensation seeking tend to cheat more or less.
关于不忠和欺骗的问题已经有很多，以及多巴胺和感觉寻求较高的人是否或多或少倾向于欺骗。
Frankly, I don't think there's any solid evidence for that.
坦率地说，我认为没有任何确凿的证据证明这一点。
I think there are a lot of examples that we can draw from in our own lives and in the lives of others that would generally support one or the other model.
我认为我们可以从自己的生活和他人的生活中汲取很多例子，这些例子通常会支持其中一种模型。
But I'm not aware of any decent physiological studies or psychological studies that really point to that.
但我不知道有任何像样的生理学研究或心理学研究真正指出了这一点。
For instance, I would never say that the serotonergic phenotype, as described by Fisher, is less prone to cheat, or that the people who have an insecure attachment are more likely to cheat, for instance.
例如，我永远不会说费舍尔所描述的血清素表型不太容易作弊，或者有不安全依恋的人更有可能作弊。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't think those correlations have been drawn in any kind of meaningful way yet, so I would be cautious about assigning them without that evidence.
我认为这些相关性还没有以任何有意义的方式得出，所以在没有这些证据的情况下我会谨慎地分配它们。
However, there are some interesting studies involving, again, neuroimaging and some subjective measures in humans, meaning asking them questions, that there are good ways to tease out lies from truths in these sorts of studies, and whether or not people tend to find their partner or others more or less attractive depending on how people feel about themselves.
然而，有一些有趣的研究再次涉及人类的神经影像学和一些主观测量，这意味着向他们提出问题，在这些类型的研究中，有很好的方法来区分谎言和真相，以及人们是否倾向于认为他们的伴侣或其他人更具吸引力或不那么有吸引力，这取决于人们对自己的感觉。
I think this is a very interesting aspect to desire, love, and attachment for the following reason.
我认为这是欲望、爱和执着的一个非常有趣的方面，原因如下。
You hear a lot out there that in order to form a really strong relationship, you have to have a good relationship with yourself, or you have to love yourself.
你听到很多人说，为了建立真正牢固的关系，你必须与自己建立良好的关系，或者你必须爱自己。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or you often hear, for instance, that it's exactly when you're not looking for a relationship that you're going to find one.
或者你经常听说，当你不寻找一段关系时，你就会找到一段关系。
You hear this stuff, right?
你听到过这些东西，对吗？
But none of that is really grounded in any studies.
但这些都没有真正基于任何研究。
Again, that's like out of sight, out of mind, or absence makes the heart grow fonder.
再说一次，这就像看不见，心不在焉，或者缺席会让心变得更亲近。
There are many life examples to support those statements, and there are many life examples to support statements to the opposite.
有很多生活例子可以支持这些陈述，也有很多生活例子可以支持相反的陈述。
There's a particular study that I found, this was published in Frontiers in Psychology, but it's a experimental study that involves neuroimaging.
我发现了一项特殊的研究，发表在《心理学前沿》上，但这是一项涉及神经影像学的实验研究。
The title of this study is "Manipulation of self-expansion alters responses to attractive alternative partners." I love the design of this study.
这项研究的标题是“自我扩张的操纵改变了对有吸引力的替代伴侣的反应”。我喜欢这项研究的设计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What they did in this study is they took couples, and they evaluated members of that relationship for what's called self-expansion.
他们在这项研究中所做的是，他们以夫妻为对象，评估了这种关系中的成员的所谓自我扩展。
Now, self-expansion is a metric that involves one's perception of self as seen through the relationship to the other.
现在，自我扩展是一个衡量标准，涉及一个人通过与他人的关系来看待自我的看法。
This is something that was developed by ...
这是由...开发的东西
the authors Aron and Aron, so they have the same last name, so I'm assuming this was either a sibling team or a somehow related team or a romantic couple team, A-R-O-N and A-R-O-N.
作者是 Aron 和 Aron，所以他们有相同的姓氏，所以我假设这是一个兄弟团队或某种相关团队或浪漫情侣团队，A-R-O-N 和 A-R-O-N。
Aron and Aron in 1986 proposed this self-expansion model of close relationships, and they proposed that people are motivated to enter relationships, I'm reading here, "In order to enhance the self and increase self-efficacy." In other words, that one of the reasons why many people enter relationships is that it makes us feel good about ourselves and more capable.
Aron和Aron在1986年提出了这种亲密关系的自我扩展模型，他们提出人们有动机进入关系，我在这里读的是“为了增强自我，增加自我效能”。换句话说，许多人建立人际关系的原因之一是它让我们自我感觉良好并且更有能力。
I would see that as a healthy interdependence, not necessarily codependence.
我认为这是一种健康的相互依赖，而不一定是相互依赖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is especially strong at the beginning of a relationship, it turns out, when people are forming pair bonds, and it's the case that pleasure, arousal and excitement, again, all hallmark features of autonomic nervous system function, pleasure, arousal, and excitement give rise to self-expansion, meaning to self-efficacy.
事实证明，这种现象在关系刚开始时尤其强烈，当人们形成配对关系时，快乐、兴奋和兴奋就会出现，同样，自主神经系统功能、快乐、兴奋和兴奋的所有标志性特征都会引起自我扩展，即自我效能感。
What this self-expansion model is really about is how great other people that we are close to and romantically attached to can potentially make us feel in terms of what they say, in terms of what they do, in terms of the way in which we believe they feel about us.
这种自我扩展模型的真正意义在于，我们所亲近和浪漫地依恋的其他人可以通过他们所说的话、所做的事情以及我们相信他们对我们的感觉来让我们感受到多么伟大。
So, it doesn't necessarily have to involve explicit statements of them telling us how great we are or them doing great gestures for us, but how we actually feel they feel about us turns out to be a very strong parameter in terms of how we feel about ourselves and the relationship overall.
因此，不一定要明确地告诉我们，他们告诉我们我们有多棒，或者他们为我们做出了伟大的举动，但我们实际上感受到他们对我们的感觉，却是我们对自己和整个关系的感觉的一个非常重要的参数。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, some of you out there are probably thinking, "Oh, yeah, isn't there this thing, the love languages?" Right?
现在，你们中的一些人可能会想，“哦，是的，不是有爱情语言这个东西吗？”正确的？
I don't have any neuroscience to support ...
我没有任何神经科学来支持......
I think the love languages, I'm not super familiar with this, I didn't list it out, but that some people, their autonomic nervous system, if you will, tends to be very responsive to gifts or to quality time or to physical touch or acts of kindness.
我认为爱的语言，我对此不是很熟悉，我没有列出来，但有些人，他们的自主神经系统，如果你愿意的话，往往对礼物、美好时光、身体接触或善意行为非常敏感。
I think I've got a few of these right?
我想我已经有一些了，对吗？
I probably have a few wrong.
我可能有一些错误。
Anyway, they're easy to find online.
不管怎样，他们很容易在网上找到。
People do tend to have a bias toward two or three of these things that are especially meaningful for them.
人们确实倾向于偏向于其中两三件对他们特别有意义的事情。
When I hear meaningful, I hear they tend to push the autonomic nervous system and neurochemical systems of the brain and body in a direction that makes us feel good as opposed to lousy or neutral.
当我听到有意义的声音时，我听说它们倾向于将大脑和身体的自主神经系统和神经化学系统推向让我们感觉良好的方向，而不是糟糕或中立的方向。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In any event, this study looked at whether or not people have high levels of self-expansion through the actions or statements of their significant other, and how that influences their perception of people outside the relationship, meaning how attractive they perceive people outside the relationship to be.
无论如何，这项研究着眼于人们是否通过重要他人的行为或陈述实现了高水平的自我扩张，以及这如何影响他们对关系之外的人的看法，这意味着他们认为关系之外的人有多有吸引力。
Turns out to be strongly influenced by, A, whether or not their self-expansion is very strongly driven by the other person that they are involved with, that they're in the romantic relationship with, and whether or not that's being expressed to them.
事实证明，他们的自我扩张是否受到与他们相关的其他人的强烈影响，是否受到他们处于浪漫关系中的另一个人的强烈影响，以及是否向他们表达了这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Here's how the study went.
研究是这样进行的。
First of all, they rated or categorized individuals on the basis of this self-expansion metric.
首先，他们根据这种自我扩展指标对个人进行评级或分类。
Some people have more of a potential to experience self-expansion through others.
有些人更有可能通过他人体验自我扩张。
Some of us feel great about ourselves and we're kind of topped off, others don't feel so great about themselves, but they can feel much better in response to praise and particular praise or self-expansion-type behaviors or statements from people that we really care about.
我们中的一些人对自己感觉很好，我们有点自我感觉良好，另一些人对自己感觉不太好，但是当我们真正关心的人的赞美和特别的赞美或自我扩展型行为或陈述时，他们会感觉更好。
Still, other people are a mixture of the two, moderate levels of both.
尽管如此，其他人却是两者的混合体，两者的水平都处于中等水平。
They rated them on this scale, and then they had people experience self-expansion narratives.
他们按照这个量表对他们进行评分，然后让人们体验自我扩展的叙述。
They heard their significant others say really terrific things about them and about the relationship in particular, that the relationship that they have was exciting, novel and challenging, so that was one form of self-expansion, and they went into some detail as to why that was the case in their particular relationship, or they heard a narrative from their significant other about strong feelings of love between the two that had been experienced previously in the relationship.
他们听到他们的另一半对他们，特别是对这段关系说了一些很棒的事情，他们的关系是令人兴奋的、新颖的和具有挑战性的，所以这是自我扩展的一种形式，他们会详细解释为什么在他们的特定关系中会出现这种情况，或者他们听到他们的另一半讲述两人之间在之前的关系中经历过的强烈的爱的感觉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, on the one case, it's directed more towards them, and in the other case it's more about the relationship itself.
因此，在一种情况下，它更多地针对他们，而在另一种情况下，它更多地涉及关系本身。
Then they did brain imaging of one person in the relationship while that person assessed the attractiveness of people outside the relationship, and what they found was that people who were primed for this self-expansion had lower activation of brain areas associated with assessing others' attractiveness than did the people who experienced a lot of self-expansion.
然后，他们对恋爱关系中的一个人进行了大脑成像，同时该人评估了恋爱关系之外的人的吸引力，他们发现，与经历过大量自我扩张的人相比，准备进行自我扩张的人与评估他人吸引力相关的大脑区域的激活程度较低。
Now, the takeaway from that, at least the way I read this study, is if you're with somebody who really benefits from or experiences a lot of self-expansion, unless you really want them to pay attention to the attractiveness of other people, it stands to reason that they would benefit from more self-expansion-type gestures or statements, not so much centered on the relationship.
现在，至少我阅读这项研究的方式是，如果你和一个真正受益于或经历了很多自我扩张的人在一起，除非你真的希望他们关注其他人的吸引力，否则他们会从更多的自我扩张型姿态或陈述中受益，而不是太以关系为中心，这是理所当然的。
"We have such a great relationship," "There's so much love, it's so great."
“我们的关系非常好，”“有这么多的爱，真是太棒了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That too, but in the context of this study and these findings, that the person is really terrific, that the relationship that they've created together is really exciting, novel and challenging, that there's a narrative around the relationship that really has a lot to do with the dynamics between the individuals, in particular, that the person who really likes self-expansion is vital to that dynamic.
也是如此，但在这项研究和这些发现的背景下，这个人真的很棒，他们一起建立的关系真的很令人兴奋、新颖和具有挑战性，围绕这种关系的叙述确实与个体之间的动态有很大关系，特别是真正喜欢自我扩张的人对于这种动态至关重要。
Okay?
好的？
So, it's not looking down at the relationship as a set of equals, there is sort of this bias written into this of that this person is really essential for the relationship.
因此，这并不是将这种关系视为平等的关系，而是存在某种偏见，即这个人对于这种关系确实至关重要。
I'm not saying this is something that anyone has to do.
我并不是说这是任何人都必须做的事情。
I'm not saying this is right or wrong.
我并不是说这是对还是错。
This is just what the data say.
这就是数据所说的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But what's remarkable is that in the absence of those statements, people that rate high on this scale of self-expansion rate attractive alternative partners as more attractive.
但值得注意的是，在没有这些陈述的情况下，在这种自我扩张率上评价较高的人会认为替代性伴侣更具吸引力。
Now, that's interesting to me because it means that their actual perception of others is changing.
现在，这对我来说很有趣，因为这意味着他们对他人的实际看法正在改变。
It's not that their opportunity to see others is changing, right?
并不是说他们见到别人的机会变了，对吧？
This is not a matter of them somehow getting access or no access to attractive alternative partners.
这不是他们以某种方式获得或无法获得有吸引力的替代合作伙伴的问题。
Again, attractive alternative partner is literally the language in the title of this paper.
再次强调，有吸引力的替代伴侣实际上是本文标题中的语言。
They're still seeing all these attractive people, it's just that if they're feeling "filled up," psychologically filled up, emotionally filled up, autonomically enhanced, in the language that we're using today, by this self-expansion narrative, well then the same set of attractive faces appear less attractive to a given individual.
他们仍然看到所有这些有魅力的人，只是如果他们感觉“充实”，心理上充实，情感上充实，自主性增强，用我们今天使用的语言来说，通过这种自我扩展的叙述，那么同一组有吸引力的面孔对特定个人来说似乎就不那么有吸引力了。
Now, whether or not this predicts cheating or loyalty, I certainly can't say.
现在，我当然不能说这是否预示着欺骗或忠诚。
That would be very hard to assess in neuroimaging.
这在神经影像学中很难评估。
There, of course, people rarely, if ever, report accurately their cheating behavior.
当然，在那里，人们很少（如果有的话）准确地报告他们的作弊行为。
There's some studies in which confidentiality-
有一些研究表明保密性——
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
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their cheating behavior.
他们的作弊行为。
There's some studies in which confidentiality is assured to the point where people seem to be more trusting and willing to reveal cheating behavior.
在一些研究中，保密性得到了保证，以至于人们似乎更加信任并愿意揭露作弊行为。
But if you look at the statistics on cheating behavior, it's very hard to track because people lie all the time about their cheating in and outside of the context of psychological and neuroimaging studies.
但如果你看一下作弊行为的统计数据，就会发现很难追踪，因为人们在心理学和神经影像学研究的背景下和之外总是在作弊问题上撒谎。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I find this study, again, the title "Manipulation of self-expansion alters responses to attractive alternative partners," to be absolutely fascinating because, again, it points to the fact that the interactions with our significant others shapes our autonomic arousal, shapes our perception of self, and thereby shapes our perception of other potential partners in the outside world or shuts us down to the potential of other people in the outside world.
但我再次发现这项研究的标题“自我扩张的操纵改变了对有吸引力的替代伴侣的反应”绝对令人着迷，因为它再次指出了这样一个事实：与我们重要的其他人的互动塑造了我们的自主唤醒，塑造了我们对自我的认知，从而塑造了我们对外部世界其他潜在伴侣的看法，或者使我们对外部世界其他人的潜力关闭。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So when I hear statements such as "It's important that you love yourself in order to really fall in love with somebody else," or, "It is when one is not looking for a relationship that they're most likely to fall in love and form a stable relationship," I can filter that through these findings to say that it's really the person who needs a lot of self-expansion-stimulating statements or actions coming from other people that is most prone to seeing other potential partners out in the world as attractive.
因此，当我听到诸如“爱自己才能真正爱上别人”之类的说法，或者“当一个人不寻找一段关系时，他们最有可能坠入爱河并形成稳定的关系”之类的说法时，我可以通过这些发现进行过滤，说真正需要来自其他人的大量自我扩张的陈述或行动的人最容易将世界上其他潜在合作伙伴视为有吸引力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And in this sense, we can return to the autonomic nervous system as kind of a glass, that it can be filled up through various contexts.
从这个意义上说，我们可以回到自主神经系统作为一个玻璃杯，它可以通过不同的环境来填充。
It can be filled up through our own ability to regulate it.
它可以通过我们自己的调节能力来填补。
It can be filled up through other people's ability to enhance our sense of well-being.
它可以通过其他人的能力来填补，从而增强我们的幸福感。
And in some sense, this points to an idea where it is true that the better that we can feel about ourselves in the absence of any self-expansion-type input from somebody else really does place us on more stable ground, such that when we do receive that praise or we do receive those acts of kindness or service or physical touch, or whatever they are, that we are able to further enhance the way that we feel, but that we don't necessarily tether all of our feelings of self-worth or self-expansion to that one individual.
从某种意义上说，这指向了一种观点，即在没有其他人的任何自我扩展型输入的情况下，我们对自己的感觉越好，确实会让我们处于更稳定的基础上，这样，当我们确实收到赞美或我们确实收到那些善意、服务或身体接触或其他任何行为时，我们能够进一步增强我们的感受方式，但我们不一定将所有自我价值或自我扩展的感觉都束缚在那个感觉上。个人的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So you might think that if person A can only receive the self-expansion from the statements, from the action of the person they're involved with, person B, that that will form a very stable bond.
所以你可能会认为，如果甲只能从与他们有关的人乙的陈述和行动中获得自我扩展，那就会形成非常稳定的联系。
But what this study points to is the fact that that's a very unstable bond.
但这项研究指出，这是一种非常不稳定的债券。
That person A is actually very susceptible to the attractiveness of others because they're so desperately attached to this notion of self-expansion, even if they don't realize it.
事实上，A 人非常容易受到他人吸引力的影响，因为他们非常执着于自我扩张的观念，即使他们没有意识到这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so this really does point to the idea that while it is important to link our autonomic nervous systems to establish desire, love, and attachment, that we want to have a stable internal representation of ourselves, a stable autonomic nervous system, to some degree or another, so that we can be in stable, romantic partnership with another individual if that's what we're really trying to do.
因此，这确实指出了这样一个想法：虽然连接我们的自主神经系统来建立欲望、爱和依恋很重要，但我们希望在某种程度上有一个稳定的自我内在表征，一个稳定的自主神经系统，这样我们就可以与另一个人建立稳定、浪漫的伙伴关系，如果这就是我们真正想要做的。
So until now, I've been weaving together studies from the field of experimental psychology and the fields of neuroscience, in particular neuroimaging.
所以到目前为止，我一直在将实验心理学领域和神经科学领域（特别是神经影像学）的研究结合在一起。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But if you recall back to the very beginning of the episode when I was discussing how odors and how hormones, and how even birth control can shape people's ratings of attractiveness of others, you'll realize that there's a deeper layer to all this, which is that our biology that resides below our conscious awareness, things like our hormones, things like pheromones even are shaping the way that we choose, interpret, and act with other potential romantic partners or the romantic partners that we already have.
但如果你回想起这一集的一开始，当我讨论气味和荷尔蒙，甚至节育如何影响人们对他人吸引力的评价时，你会意识到这一切还有更深层次的内容，那就是我们的生物学存在于我们的意识意识之下，像我们的荷尔蒙、信息素这样的东西甚至正在塑造我们选择、解释和与其他潜在的浪漫伴侣或我们已经拥有的浪漫伴侣一起行动的方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, this cannot be overemphasized.
现在，这一点怎么强调都不为过。
No matter how much we would like to create a sort of top-down description, meaning from the cortex and our understanding of things onto what we find attractive, who we find attractive, what we enjoy, what we don't enjoy in the pursuit and romantic interactions with others, there always seems to be, and, indeed, there always is a deeper layer in which our subconscious processing drives us to find a particular person to be particular attractive or in which we have chemistry with somebody or in which we lack chemistry with somebody.
无论我们多么想创造一种自上而下的描述，即从大脑皮层和我们对事物的理解到我们觉得有吸引力的东西、我们觉得有吸引力的人、我们喜欢什么、我们不喜欢什么，在追求和与他人的浪漫互动中，似乎总是存在，而且事实上，总是有一个更深的层次，我们的潜意识处理驱使我们发现某个特定的人特别有吸引力，或者我们与某人有化学反应，或者我们与某人缺乏化学反应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I would say that one of the more exciting, fascinating, and, indeed, mysterious aspects of desire, love and attachment are those subconscious processes, those things that we call chemistry.
我想说，欲望、爱和依恋中更令人兴奋、更迷人、更神秘的方面之一就是那些潜意识的过程，我们称之为化学的东西。
I mean, people will report, for instance, that somebody's smell is just absolutely positively intoxicating for them or that somebody's smell is absolutely repulsive to them and they don't know why.
我的意思是，人们会报告，例如，某人的气味对他们来说绝对令人陶醉，或者某人的气味对他们来说绝对令人厌恶，但他们不知道为什么。
That the taste of someone's breath, and I don't mean that in any kind of unpoetic sense.
那是某人呼吸的味道，我并不是指任何不诗意的意思。
I literally mean the taste of somebody's breath in some cases can be very exciting to somebody.
我的字面意思是，在某些情况下，某人呼吸的味道可能会让某人非常兴奋。
And believe it or not, we can taste each other's breath.
不管你信不信，我们都能尝到彼此的呼吸。
I talked about this in the chemical-sensing episode some months back, but we actually have receptors for taste and smell that engage in coordinated action such that we can't really separate taste and smell at some level.
我在几个月前的化学传感章节中谈到过这一点，但我们实际上有味觉和嗅觉的受体，它们参与协调行动，因此我们无法在某种程度上真正区分味觉和嗅觉。
And this is especially true when it comes to the formation of romantic relationships and what we call chemistry.
当涉及到浪漫关系的形成和我们所说的化学反应时尤其如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, is chemistry absolutely required for forming stable attachments for love and for desire?
现在，化学对于形成爱和欲望的稳定依恋来说是绝对必要的吗？
No, of course they're not.
不，他们当然不是。
But in general, these are primitive mechanisms that exist in all animals.
但总的来说，这些是所有动物中都存在的原始机制。
They exist in special forms in humans, but that they drive us toward behaviors that will, as the theory goes, lead to love and attachment, not always.
它们以特殊的形式存在于人类身上，但它们驱使我们采取一些行为，正如理论所说，这些行为会导致爱和依恋，但并不总是如此。
As Dr. Fisher pointed out, that sex and sex drive is one way to explore potential love relationships and to explore potential attachments, which of course are major investments that extend well beyond one night or a week or a vacation or even a year.
正如费舍尔博士指出的，性和性冲动是探索潜在爱情关系和潜在依恋的一种方式，这当然是远远超出一晚、一周、一个假期甚至一年的重大投资。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When we talk about stable attachments in general, that means long-term attachments in humans.
当我们一般谈论稳定依恋时，这意味着人类的长期依恋。
Now, there is a biology to all of that chemistry stuff.
现在，所有这些化学东西都有生物学的意义。
And the studies of oral contraception and men finding women more attractive at certain phases of their menstrual cycle and women finding men more attractive at certain phases of the women's menstrual cycle point to the incredible power of those deeper biological mechanisms.
对口服避孕药的研究以及男性发现女性在月经周期的某些阶段更具吸引力以及女性发现男性在女性月经周期的某些阶段更具吸引力的研究都表明了这些更深层次的生物机制的不可思议的力量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In the Huberman Lab podcast, I discussed both science and science-based tools.
在休伯曼实验室播客中，我讨论了科学和基于科学的工具。
And so I'd be remiss if I didn't actually cover some of the tools that relate to those deeper biological mechanisms, how the hormones testosterone and estrogen are almost always the first biological chemicals and hormones that are mentioned and described and explored when thinking about desire and love and attachment too, for that matter.
因此，如果我没有真正涵盖一些与更深层次的生物机制相关的工具，那么我就失职了，在思考欲望、爱和依恋时，睾丸激素和雌激素几乎总是第一个被提及、描述和探索的生物化学物质和激素。
Since love and attachment stem from desire.
因为爱和执着源于欲望。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I did an entire episode about the biology of testosterone and estrogen and ways to optimize testosterone and estrogen.
我做了一整集关于睾酮和雌激素的生物学以及优化睾酮和雌激素的方法。
You can easily find that episode at hubermanlab.com.
您可以在 hubermanlab.com 轻松找到该剧集。
It's stamped there.
它被印在那里。
You can find all sorts of information about how certain behaviors or absence of behaviors drive up or down testosterone and estrogen.
您可以找到有关某些行为或缺乏行为如何导致睾酮和雌激素升高或降低的各种信息。
I also dispel some myths about sexual behavior and things like masturbation and how they relate to testosterone and estrogen, as well as some myths about how those hormones change across the lifespan.
我还消除了一些关于性行为和手淫等事情的神话，以及它们与睾酮和雌激素的关系，以及关于这些激素在整个生命周期中如何变化的一些神话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I also talk about the role of exercise.
我还讲一下运动的作用。
I talk about supplementation, and I also talk a little bit about hormone replacement therapy, although that will be the topic for a future episode.
我谈论了补充，我也谈论了一些激素替代疗法，尽管这将是未来一集的主题。
So if you're interested in the biology of testosterone and estrogen, two hormones that absolutely influence things like libido and desire, please check out that episode as well as what I'm going to talk about in just a moment here.
因此，如果您对睾酮和雌激素（这两种绝对影响性欲和欲望等事物的激素）的生物学感兴趣，请查看该集以及我稍后要讨论的内容。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The simple stereotyped version of the hormones testosterone and estrogen are that testosterone drives libido or increases it, aka sex drive, and that estrogen somehow blunts it or is not involved in libido and sex drive.
睾酮和雌激素激素的简单刻板版本是，睾酮驱动性欲或增加性欲，又名性欲，而雌激素以某种方式削弱性欲或不参与性欲和性欲。
And that is simply not the case.
但事实并非如此。
As I describe in that testosterone and estrogen optimization episode, and as I'll tell you now, yes, testosterone and some of its other forms like dihydrotestosterone are strongly related to libido and sex drive and the pursuit and ability to mate.
正如我在睾酮和雌激素优化那一集中所描述的，以及我现在要告诉你的，是的，睾酮和它的一些其他形式（如二氢睾酮）与性欲和性欲以及交配的追求和能力密切相关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
However, the hormone estrogen is also strongly associated with libido and mating behavior.
然而，雌激素也与性欲和交配行为密切相关。
So much so that for people that either chemically or for some other reason have very low estrogen, libido can severely suffer.
如此之多，以至于对于化学原因或其他原因雌激素水平很低的人来说，性欲会受到严重影响。
So it's a coordinated dance of estrogen and testosterone in both males and females that leads to libido or sex drive.
因此，男性和女性体内雌激素和睾酮的协调作用会导致性欲或性欲。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I absolutely wanted to make clear that it's not a simple relationship between testosterone and sex drive or estrogen and sex drive.
所以我绝对想澄清的是，睾丸激素和性欲或雌激素和性欲之间并不是简单的关系。
Both are required at appropriate ratios.
两者都需要以适当的比例。
Now, with that said, there are things that can shift libido in both men and women in the direction of more desire or more desire to mate.
话虽如此，有些东西可以改变男性和女性的性欲，使其产生更多的欲望或更多的交配欲望。
Either to seek mates or to mate with existing partners.
要么寻找伴侣，要么与现有的伴侣交配。
And there's a quite solid literature around a few of those substances.
关于其中一些物质有相当可靠的文献。
Now, a common misconception is that because dopamine is involved in motivation and drive, that simply increasing dopamine through any number of different mechanisms or tools will increase libido and sex drive, and that's simply not the case either.
现在，一个常见的误解是，由于多巴胺参与动机和驱动力，因此简单地通过多种不同的机制或工具增加多巴胺就会增加性欲和性欲，但事实并非如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It is true that some level of dopamine or increase in dopamine is required for increases in libido.
确实，性欲的增加需要一定水平的多巴胺或多巴胺的增加。
However, because of dopamine's relationship to the autonomic nervous system and because the autonomic nervous system is so intimately involved, no pun intended, in sexual activity, in seeking and actual mating behavior, as I described earlier, it's actually the case that if people drive their dopamine system too high, they will be in states of arousal that are high enough such that they seek and want sexual activity, but they can't actually engage the parasympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system sufficient to become physically aroused.
然而，由于多巴胺与自主神经系统的关系，并且由于自主神经系统与性活动、寻求和实际交配行为密切相关，没有双关语的意思，正如我之前所描述的，实际上，如果人们将多巴胺系统驱动得太高，他们就会处于足够高的唤醒状态，以至于他们寻求并想要性活动，但他们实际上无法充分利用自主神经系统的副交感臂来使身体变得兴奋。激起。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, there's a whole description of this that awaits us in a future episode, but I'll summarize now by saying for people that are taking substances just simply to increase dopamine in order to increase libido, that can be a potentially hazardous route to follow.
现在，对此有一个完整的描述，在未来的剧集中等待着我们，但我现在总结一下，对于那些只是为了增加多巴胺以增加性欲而服用药物的人来说，这可能是一条潜在危险的途径。
Because depending on whether or not that dopamine level is high enough that it puts them into a mode of seeking mates or mating, but they can't adjust their autonomic nervous system during actual mating behavior, what essentially is I'm saying is it can place people into a chronic pursuit, but an inability to perform sexually.
因为取决于多巴胺水平是否足够高，使他们进入一种寻找伴侣或交配的模式，但他们在实际交配行为中无法调整他们的自主神经系统，我的本质是说，它可以使人们陷入长期的追求，但无法进行性行为。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this is true for men and women.
对于男性和女性来说都是如此。
So I would just caution people against just thinking, "Oh, a lack of libido is simply a lack of dopamine." That is not the case.
所以我只是提醒人们不要只是想，“哦，缺乏性欲只是缺乏多巴胺。”事实并非如此。
It could be from lower levels of dopamine, but it could also be for other reasons.
这可能是由于多巴胺水平较低，但也可能是其他原因。
And so these systems, these signaling systems and these neurochemicals are very intricate.
因此，这些系统、信号系统和神经化学物质非常复杂。
And just simply ramping up dopamine has actually been found, for instance, in amphetamine and cocaine users, there's a phenomenon in which they become hyperaroused but can't perform sexually.
实际上已经发现，仅仅简单地增加多巴胺，例如，在安非他明和可卡因使用者中，存在一种现象，他们变得过度兴奋，但无法进行性行为。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is also true for people who take elevated levels of other recreational drugs or who take antidepressants that increase the dopamine system too much.
对于服用高浓度其他娱乐性药物或服用过多增加多巴胺系统的抗抑郁药的人来说也是如此。
Dosage has to be worked out with your physician, with your psychiatrist, such that mood is enhanced and the various aspects of a healthy well-being, mind and body are enhanced, but not so much so that what we call the arousal arc is locked with the seesaw in the sympathetic drive position such that sexual arousal can't occur.
剂量必须与你的医生和精神科医生一起制定，这样可以增强情绪，增强健康福祉、身心健康的各个方面，但又不能太多，以至于我们所说的性唤起弧被锁在交感神经驱动位置的跷跷板上，从而无法发生性唤起。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So this is an important point to make because I think that a lot of people are under the impression that if they just drive up testosterone, increase dopamine and generally get themselves into high states of autonomic arousal, that that's going to increase their libido.
所以这是一个重要的观点，因为我认为很多人都有这样的印象：如果他们只是提高睾丸激素，增加多巴胺并通常让自己进入自主神经兴奋的高度状态，那就会增加他们的性欲。
But that's simply not the way the system works.
但这根本不是系统的工作方式。
It's that seesaw and that seesawing back and forth that is the arc of arousal that we talked about earlier.
正是这种跷跷板和来回的跷跷板，就是我们之前谈到的唤醒弧线。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, there are substances, legal over-the-counter substances that fall under the categorization of supplements that do, indeed, increase libido and arousal.
现在，有些物质，合法的非处方药，属于补充剂类别，确实可以增加性欲和性唤起。
And so I'm going to talk about some of those in the context of peer-reviewed literature now.
因此，我现在将在同行评审文献的背景下讨论其中的一些内容。
I want to be clear, however, that these are by no means required.
然而，我想澄清的是，这些绝不是必需的。
Many people have healthy libidos or have libidos that are healthy for their life and what they need and want.
许多人都有健康的性欲，或者有对他们的生活和他们需要和想要的健康的性欲。
And as always, in any discussion about supplementation, you absolutely have to check with your physician.
与往常一样，在任何有关补充剂的讨论中，您绝对必须咨询您的医生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't just say that to protect us.
我这么说不仅仅是为了保护我们。
I say that to protect you.
我这么说是为了保护你。
Your health and well-being is dependent on you doing certain things and not doing others, and everybody is different.
您的健康和幸福取决于您做某些事情而不做其他事情，每个人都是不同的。
Nonetheless, there are studies that point to specific substances that are sold over the counter that at least in the United States are legal and that have been shown to be statistically significant in increasing measures of libido.
尽管如此，有研究指出，在柜台出售的特定物质至少在美国是合法的，并且已被证明在增加性欲方面具有统计学意义。
There are many such substances, but three that in particular have good peer-reviewed research to support them are maca, M-A-C-A, which is actually a root.
此类物质有很多，但其中三种物质尤其得到了良好的同行评审研究的支持，它们是玛卡（maca）、M-A-C-A，它实际上是一种根。
Tongkat Ali, also sometimes called Longjack — I didn't name them, forgive me — and Tribulus, or Tribulus, it's sometimes called.
东革阿里，有时也被称为 Longjack——我没有命名它们，请原谅我——还有蒺藜，或蒺藜，有时也被称为。
I'm going to talk about each of these in sequence.
我将按顺序讨论其中的每一个。
But on the whole, studies on maca are quite convincing that consumption of two to three grams per day of maca, which generally is sold as a powder or a capsule, typically consumed early in the day because it can be somewhat of a stimulant, meaning it can increase alertness and you wouldn't want it to interfere with sleep by taking it too late in the day.
但总体而言，关于玛卡的研究非常令人信服，每天食用两到三克玛卡（通常以粉末或胶囊形式出售），通常在一天的早些时候食用，因为它可能具有一定的兴奋剂作用，这意味着它可以提高警觉性，并且您不希望在一天中太晚服用它而干扰睡眠。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But in studies that include both men and women of durations anywhere from eight to 12 weeks, of athletes and nonathletes and different variations of maca, turns out there's black maca, red maca, yellow maca.
但在针对男性和女性、持续时间为 8 至 12 周、运动员和非运动员以及玛卡的不同变体的研究中，结果发现玛卡有黑玛卡、红玛卡和黄玛卡。
There are a bunch of different forms of maca, but that they can increase subjective reports of sexual desire, independent of hormone systems, meaning it does not seem, at least based on the existing literature, that maca increases testosterone or changes estrogen, at least not on the time scales that these studies were done or with the measures that were performed in these studies.
玛卡有多种不同形式，但它们可以增加对性欲的主观报告，与激素系统无关，这意味着至少根据现有文献，玛卡似乎不会增加睾酮或改变雌激素，至少在这些研究进行的时间范围内或在这些研究中进行的测量中没有。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But that maca, again consumed it in doses of anywhere from two to three grams per day, has been shown to significantly increase libido.
但事实证明，玛咖每天摄入两到三克的剂量可以显着提高性欲。
And in fact, those doses of maca have been shown to offset so-called SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction.
事实上，这些剂量的玛咖已被证明可以抵消所谓的 SSRI 引起的性功能障碍。
So there are various routes to sexual dysfunction.
因此，导致性功能障碍的途径有多种。
The SSRIs are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
SSRIs 是选择性血清素再摄取抑制剂。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They go by name brands like Prozac and Zoloft, and there are many others now and generic forms, and so forth.
它们的品牌有百忧解（Prozac）和左洛复（Zoloft），现在还有许多其他品牌和通用形式，等等。
Those don't always, I should point out, lead to sexual dysfunction.
我应该指出，这些并不总是导致性功能障碍。
There's a dose dependence.
有剂量依赖性。
Some people do quite well on SSRIs and don't have any issues with sexual function.
有些人服用 SSRI 后效果很好，并且没有任何性功能问题。
Other people suffer quite a lot from sexual dysfunction while taking SSRIs.
其他人在服用 SSRIs 时会遭受性功能障碍的困扰。
Highly variable — you need to work with a physician, a qualified psychiatrist.
变化很大——你需要与医生、合格的精神科医生一起工作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But nonetheless, everything I've been saying about maca thus far has also been explored in the context of SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction.
但尽管如此，到目前为止我所说的关于玛咖的一切也是在 SSRI 引起的性功能障碍的背景下进行探讨的。
The paper that I'm referring to here is a double-blind randomized pilot dose-finding study of maca root.
我在这里指的论文是玛卡根的双盲随机试验剂量探索研究。
It goes by the name Lepidium meyenii.
它的名字叫Lepidium meyenii。
These always have fancy names and the Latin names in biology are always more complicated, but it's maca root — for the management of SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction.
它们总是有奇特的名字，生物学中的拉丁名字总是更复杂，但它是玛卡根——用于治疗 SSRI 引起的性功能障碍。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
First author is Dording, D-O-R-D-I-N-G.
第一作者是 Dording，D-O-R-D-I-N-G。
This was a study done at Mass General, which is one of the satellite locations around Harvard Med.
这是在麻省总医院进行的一项研究，麻省总医院是哈佛医学院周围的卫星地点之一。
It's associated with Harvard Med, that found significant improvements in libido when people were taking a pretty low dose.
它与哈佛医学研究有关，该研究发现，当人们服用相当低的剂量时，性欲显着改善。
It was actually, in this case, just 1.5 grams per day, up to a high dose, three grams per day of maca, and they were doing this in 20 remitted depressed outpatients.
实际上，在本例中，每天只服用 1.5 克玛卡，最高剂量为每天 3 克玛卡，他们在 20 名抑郁症缓解的门诊患者中进行了这种治疗。
So these are people that had depression.
这些都是患有抑郁症的人。
Their depression was successfully treated with SSRIs, but they were suffering from some of these SSRI-related sexual effects, and maca seemed to offset some of those effects significantly in this population.
他们的抑郁症已被 SSRI 成功治疗，但他们也遭受了一些与 SSRI 相关的性影响，而玛卡似乎可以在该人群中显着抵消其中的一些影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The other studies exploring the lack of effect on serum testosterone in adult healthy men was a 12-week study, again, consuming anywhere from 1.5 to three milligrams...
其他研究对成年健康男性的血清睾酮缺乏影响，也是一项为期 12 周的研究，摄入量为 1.5 至 3 毫克……
Excuse me, 1,500 milligrams to 3,000 milligrams, or placebo.
打扰一下，1,500 毫克到 3,000 毫克，或者安慰剂。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So again, this is 1.5 up to three grams of maca or placebo, and they rated sexual desire, depression and other measures such as testosterone in the blood.
再说一遍，这是 1.5 至 3 克的玛卡或安慰剂，他们评估了性欲、抑郁和血液中睾酮等其他指标。
Again, no change in testosterone or estrogen, estradiol levels in men treated with maca and those treated with placebo.
同样，接受玛卡治疗的男性和接受安慰剂治疗的男性的睾酮或雌激素、雌二醇水平没有变化。
But nonetheless, there was a significant and positive effect on libido with this dosage of 1.5 to three grams per day of maca.
尽管如此，每天服用 1.5 至 3 克的玛卡剂量对性欲有显着且积极的影响。
And there are several other studies that also show this.
还有其他几项研究也证明了这一点。
Again, in people that are taking SSRIs and people that are not taking SSRIs.
同样，在服用 SSRI 的人和未服用 SSRI 的人中。
In chronically overtrained athletes, this was also found to be the case.
在长期过度训练的运动员中也发现了这种情况。
So seems like across the board, maca is a fairly useful supplement for those that are seeking to increase the libido, and there are fewer studies involving women, but there are a few such studies that also point to the same general positive effect on libido in women taking maca at equivalent doses to those I just described.
因此，总的来说，玛卡对于那些寻求增加性欲的人来说是一种相当有用的补充剂，涉及女性的研究较少，但有一些这样的研究也表明，服用与我刚才描述的剂量相当的玛卡的女性对性欲具有同样的积极作用。
I think it's noteworthy that maca supplementation does not seem to adjust testosterone or estrogen levels to any significant degree, but it does change libido.
我认为值得注意的是，玛咖补充剂似乎并没有在任何显着程度上调整睾酮或雌激素水平，但它确实改变了性欲。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think that points to the fact that there are multiple systems in the brain and body that influence libido, not just testosterone and estrogen.
我认为这表明大脑和身体中有多个系统影响性欲，而不仅仅是睾酮和雌激素。
And indeed, we know that to be the case.
事实上，我们知道情况确实如此。
Things like PEA, which is a substance found in chocolate and is a substance that some people supplement, is known, for instance, to increase sexual desire.
像豌豆这样的物质（巧克力中的一种物质，也是一些人补充的物质）已知可以增加性欲。
But also the perception of sexual experiences as more stimulating, for instance.
例如，人们也认为性经历更具刺激性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there are a lot of pathways in the brain, in particular in the hypothalamus, this ancient area of our brain that harbors neurons and hormone-secreting cells, including neurons that can shape our perceptions of even just our tactile experience of others and their attractiveness and, indeed, can shift levels of desire independent of changing levels of circulating hormones.
因此，大脑中有很多通路，特别是下丘脑，这是我们大脑中的一个古老区域，拥有神经元和激素分泌细胞，其中的神经元可以塑造我们对他人的触觉体验及其吸引力的感知，而且事实上，可以独立于循环激素水平的变化而改变欲望水平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Another substance that has been shown to increase libido across a range of human populations is so-called Tongkat Ali.
另一种已被证明可以提高一系列人群性欲的物质是所谓的东革阿里。
I've talked a little bit about this before on the Huberman Lab podcast in reference to testosterone, and I've talked about it extensively as a guest on other podcasts.
我之前在 Huberman Lab 播客上谈过一些关于睾酮的问题，并且我作为其他播客的嘉宾也广泛谈论过这一点。
Tongkat Ali goes by a number of different names.
东革阿里有许多不同的名称。
One of them is exceedingly difficult for me to pronounce.
其中一个对我来说非常难发音。
It's Eurycoma longifolia, also called longjack, but Tongkat Ali is the typical name.
它是Eurycoma longifolia，也称为longjack，但东革阿里是典型的名称。
This is an herb.
这是一种草药。
There's a Malaysian version and an Indonesian version.
有马来西亚版本和印度尼西亚版本。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
My understanding is that the Indonesian variety of Tongkat Ali is the one that is most potent for its effects on libido.
我的理解是，印度尼西亚品种的东革阿里是对性欲影响最有效的一种。
Previously, I've talked about Tongkat Ali taken in 400 milligram per day capsules as a means to increase the amount of free, meaning unbound testosterone.
之前，我曾讨论过每天服用 400 毫克东革阿里胶囊，作为增加游离睾酮（即未结合睾酮）量的方法。
So testosterone has a both bound form and an unbound form.
因此，睾酮有结合形式和非结合形式。
Very briefly the bound form is bound to albumin in the blood or to so-called sex hormone-binding globulin.
简而言之，结合形式与血液中的白蛋白或所谓的性激素结合球蛋白结合。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When it's bound, it can't be biologically active at many cells.
当它被结合时，它在许多细胞中就不再具有生物活性。
It is important that some of it be bound in order to get a sort of time release and proper distribution of testosterone through the body, but is the unbound free testosterone that can really have its most potent effects.
重要的是，其中一些睾酮必须被结合，以便睾酮在体内得到某种时间释放和适当的分布，但真正可以发挥最有效作用的是未结合的游离睾酮。
And there's some evidence that Tongkat Ali can increase the amount of unbound so-called free testosterone by lowering sex hormone-binding globulin, although it is almost certain that it has other routes of mechanism as well.
有一些证据表明东革阿里可以通过降低性激素结合球蛋白来增加未结合的所谓游离睾酮的量，尽管几乎可以肯定它还有其他机制途径。
Nonetheless, there are some reports of Tongkat Ali increasing libido.
尽管如此，有一些报道称东革阿里可以增强性欲。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One particular article, last author, or I should say last name of first author, excuse me, Ismal, I-S-M-A-L.
一篇特定的文章，最后一位作者，或者我应该说第一作者的姓氏，对不起，Ismal，I-S-M-A-L。
This was published in Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine, this is from 2012, reports a significant increase in libido and sexual function.
这是发表在循证补充和替代医学上的，这是从 2012 年开始的，报告了性欲和性功能的显着增加。
There are other such studies, not a lot of them, not as many robust controlled, quality peer-reviewed studies as there are from maca.
还有其他类似的研究，但数量不多，也不像玛卡那样有那么多稳健的对照、高质量的同行评审研究。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nonetheless, a number of people, men and women that I know do take Tongkat Ali, and it seems to work well for them.
尽管如此，我认识的许多人，无论男女，都服用东革阿里，而且它似乎对他们很有效。
The question always comes up around discussion of supplements.
这个问题总是围绕补充剂的讨论而出现。
Do you need to cycle these things?
你需要循环这些东西吗？
The only way to determine that is really to do your blood work, monitor liver enzymes, monitor hormone levels, and so forth.
确定这一点的唯一方法是进行血液检查、监测肝酶、监测激素水平等等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I simply can't say whether or not you need to or you don't need to cycle them.
所以我根本不能说你是否需要或不需要循环它们。
Typically, Tongkat Ali and maca are not cycled in any regular kind of way that I'm aware of, but again, you really need to check with your doctor if you're going to initiate taking any of these things, and you certainly should do your best to monitor your blood work as well as subjective measures in evaluating whether or not they're working for you, safe for you, and so forth.
通常情况下，东革阿里和玛卡不会以我所知道的任何常规方式循环，但同样，如果您打算开始服用任何这些东西，您确实需要咨询您的医生，并且您当然应该尽力监测您的血液检查以及主观措施来评估它们是否对您有效、对您安全等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The third and final substance slash supplement that I want to touch on as it relates to libido is called Tribulus terrestris.
我想谈的第三种也是最后一种与性欲有关的物质斜线补充剂称为蒺藜。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So that's T-R-I-B-U-L-U-S, terrestris, T-E-R-R-E-S-T-R-I-S.
这就是 T-R-I-B-U-L-U-S，terrestris，T-E-R-R-E-S-T-R-I-S。
This is a commonly sold over-the-counter supplement for increasing testosterone for fitness purposes, and so on.
这是一种常见的非处方补充剂，用于增加睾丸激素以达到健身目的等。
Whether or not it actually does that to a meaningful degree isn't clear, but I'm aware of four peer-reviewed studies that were focused on both males and females ranging anywhere from 18 years old all the way up to 65 plus.
目前还不清楚它是否真的能达到有意义的程度，但我知道有四项同行评审的研究针对男性和女性，年龄范围从 18 岁一直到 65 岁以上。
They say 65 plus.
他们说65以上。
I guess that could be 70, could be 80, I don't know.
我猜可能是70，也可能是80，我不知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But a fairly broad age range, where people took anywhere from 750 milligrams per day divided into three equal doses.
但年龄范围相当广泛，人们每天服用 750 毫克不等，分为三个等剂量。
So 750 total per day divided into three equal doses of Tribulus or placebo for 120 days.
因此，每天总计 750 粒，分为三份等剂量的蒺藜或安慰剂，持续 120 天。
This particular study was focused on females, and according to the female sexual function index questionnaire, no significant difference between any of the groups.
这项特殊的研究主要针对女性，根据女性性功能指数调查问卷，各组之间没有显着差异。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
However, free and bioavailable testosterone increased in the group taking Tribulus terrestris.
然而，服用蒺藜的组中游离睾酮和生物可利用睾酮有所增加。
Total testosterone did not reach statistical significance.
总睾酮未达到统计学显着性。
So this is sort of the inverse of what we see with maca, where there do seem to be increases in testosterone, which would predict that there would be increase in libido.
因此，这与我们在玛卡中看到的情况相反，玛卡中的睾酮似乎确实有所增加，这预示着性欲会增加。
In this case, this was postmenopausal women, there was no increase in libido.
在这种情况下，这是绝经后的女性，性欲没有增加。
There was an increase in testosterone.
睾酮水平有所增加。
I mention it only because there might be instances in which people want to increase their testosterone.
我提到它只是因为在某些情况下人们可能想要增加睾丸激素。
It does seem that Tribulus, at least in that population, is capable of doing that.
蒺藜似乎确实有能力做到这一点，至少在该人群中是这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, there's a separate study that was done, a double-blind study lasting anywhere from one to six months that had a clear and significant increase in libido.
现在，已经完成了一项单独的研究，一项持续一到六个月的双盲研究，显示性欲明显显着增加。
Now, this was taking six grams, so that's 6,000 milligrams, of Tribulus root for 60 days, and it did seem to increase various aspects of sexual function.
现在，服用 6 克（即 6,000 毫克）蒺藜根 60 天，它似乎确实增强了性功能的各个方面。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there was what appeared to be a substantial 16.3% increase in testosterone.
睾酮水平似乎大幅增加了 16.3%。
But in this particular study, because of the variability across individuals, that did not actually arrive at statistical significance.
但在这项特定的研究中，由于个体之间存在差异，实际上并没有达到统计显着性。
Now, there were a number of other studies that explored the role of Tribulus, in particular in females, and one of those studies was a study that was actually quite short.
现在，还有许多其他研究探讨了蒺藜的作用，特别是对女性的作用，其中一项研究实际上是相当短的。
It was two to four weeks.
那是两到四个星期。
It involved 67 subjects.
它涉及67个科目。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
These were subjects that had experienced a loss of libido and took Tribulus divided into two equal doses, compared that to placebo.
这些受试者经历了性欲减退，并将蒺藜分为两份等剂量服用，与安慰剂进行比较。
And they did see a significant improvement in these measures of sexual desire and function on this female sexual function index.
他们确实看到这些女性性功能指数的性欲和功能指标有了显着改善。
So there is some evidence that Tribulus can be effective in increasing testosterone in certain populations, in increasing sexual desire and function in certain populations, in particular in females.
因此，有一些证据表明蒺藜可以有效增加某些人群的睾酮水平，提高某些人群的性欲和性功能，特别是女性。
I think more studies are certainly needed.
我认为确实需要更多的研究。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But these three substances slash supplements, maca, Tongkat Ali, in particular Indonesian Tongkat Ali, and Tribulus, can indeed create significant increases in sexual desire, and in some cases by adjusting the testosterone and estrogen system in some cases, not by adjusting the testosterone and estrogen system.
但这三种物质大幅补品，玛咖、东革阿里，特别是印尼东革阿里、蒺藜，确实可以使性欲显着增加，而且在某些情况下是通过调节睾酮和雌激素系统，在某些情况下不是通过调节睾酮和雌激素系统。
Again, pointing to the complexity of neurochemicals and features that adjust things like libido, aka desire.
再次指出神经化学物质的复杂性和调节性欲（又名欲望）等事物的功能。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we covered a lot of material today related to desire, love, and attachment, and yet I acknowledge that it is not exhaustive of the vast landscape that is the psychology and biology of desire, love, and attachment.
因此，我们今天讨论了很多与欲望、爱和依恋相关的材料，但我承认，这并没有详尽地阐述欲望、爱和依恋的心理学和生物学的广阔前景。
Nonetheless, I hope that you found the information interesting and hopefully actionable in some cases toward the relationships of your past, of present, and potentially for the relationships of your future.
尽管如此，我希望你觉得这些信息很有趣，并且在某些情况下对于你过去、现在的关系以及可能对你未来的关系来说是可行的。
If you're enjoying and/or learning from this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您喜欢此播客和/或从中学习，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a very straightforward, zero-cost way to support us, and it really does help us.
这是一种非常简单、零成本的支持方式，而且确实对我们有帮助。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In addition, please subscribe to our podcast on Apple and Spotify, and on Apple, you have the opportunity to leave us up to a five-star review.
此外，请订阅我们在 Apple 和 Spotify 上的播客，在 Apple 上，您有机会给我们留下五星级的评论。
In addition, please leave us comments, feedback, and suggestions for future guests in the comment section on YouTube.
此外，请在 YouTube 的评论部分给我们留下评论、反馈和对未来嘉宾的建议。
We do read all of those comments.
我们确实阅读了所有这些评论。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning of today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头提到的赞助商。
That is the best way to support the Huberman Lab podcast.
这是支持 Huberman 实验室播客的最佳方式。
Please also follow us on Instagram and Twitter.
也请在 Instagram 和 Twitter 上关注我们。
I teach neuroscience and neuroscience-related tools on both Instagram and Twitter.
我在 Instagram 和 Twitter 上教授神经科学和神经科学相关工具。
Some of that material overlaps with material covered on the podcast.
其中一些材料与播客上覆盖的材料重叠。
Some of it is unique material only covered on Instagram and Twitter.
其中一些是仅在 Instagram 和 Twitter 上报道的独特材料。
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion about desire, love, and attachment.
感谢您参加今天关于欲望、爱和执着的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。
PART 4 OF 4 ENDS
第 4 部分（共 4 部分）结束