The Science & Process of Healing from Grief

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

Today, we are discussing grief.

今天，我们来讨论悲伤。

Grief is a natural emotion that most everybody experiences at some point in their life.

悲伤是一种自然的情绪，大多数人都会在生命中的某个时刻经历过。

However, grief is something that still mystifies most people.

然而，悲伤仍然让大多数人感到困惑。

For instance, we often wonder why getting over the loss of somebody or a pet is so absolutely crushing.

例如，我们经常想知道为什么从失去某人或宠物的痛苦中走出来会如此令人心碎。

In some cases, it's obvious, because we had a very close relationship to that person or animal, but in other cases, it's bewildering, because somehow despite our best efforts, we are unable to reframe and shift our mind to the idea that the person or animal that at one point was here and so very present is now gone.

在某些情况下，这是显而易见的，因为我们与那个人或动物有非常密切的关系，但在其他情况下，这是令人困惑的，因为尽管我们尽了最大努力，但我们无法重新构建和转移我们的思想，认为曾经在这里并且非常存在的人或动物现在已经消失了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Today, we are going to discuss how we conceptualize grief, both at an emotional and at a logical level.

今天，我们将讨论如何在情感和逻辑层面上概念化悲伤。

I'm going to teach you about the neuroscience and the psychology of grief, and incredible findings that have been made in just a few key laboratories that point to the fact that we essentially map our experience of people in three dimensions.

我将教你们有关神经科学和悲伤心理学的知识，以及在几个关键实验室中取得的令人难以置信的发现，这些发现表明我们本质上是在三个维度上绘制人们的体验。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'll just give you a little hint of what those dimensions are.

我只是给你一些关于这些尺寸的提示。

They relate to space, where people are; time, when people are — I'll explain what that means; and a dimension called closeness.

它们与空间有关，即人们所在的地方；时间，当人们——我会解释这意味着什么；以及一个叫做“亲密”的维度。

And how those three dimensions of space, time, and closeness are what establish very close bonds with people, and are what require remapping, reorganization within our emotional framework and our logical framework, when we lose somebody for whatever reason.

当我们因某种原因失去某人时，空间、时间和亲密感这三个维度如何与人们建立非常紧密的联系，以及如何在我们的情感框架和逻辑框架内重新映射、重组。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Within that understanding, I'm confident that you will have greater insight into the grief process.

在这种理解下，我相信你会对悲伤的过程有更深入的了解。

And should you ever find yourself within the grief process, as I imagine most everyone will at some point, you'll be able to navigate that process in what psychologists and neuroscientists deem to be the most healthy way of going through grief.

如果你发现自己处于悲伤的过程中，就像我想象大多数人都会在某个时刻一样，你将能够以心理学家和神经科学家认为的最健康的方式度过悲伤的过程。

Indeed, moving through grief requires a specific form of neuroplasticity, a reordering of brain connections, and also the connections between the brain and body.

事实上，摆脱悲伤需要特定形式的神经可塑性、大脑连接的重新排序以及大脑和身体之间的连接。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm going to teach you about all of that today, so you're going to learn a lot of scientific information.

今天我将教你所有这些，所以你将学到很多科学信息。

You will also learn a lot of tools that you can put in your kit of emotional, and, really, emotional-physical tools that will allow you to move through grief in this healthy way that I referred to earlier.

你还将学到很多工具，你可以将它们放入你的情感工具包中，实际上，情感-身体工具可以让你以我之前提到的健康方式度过悲伤。

I'll also point out some of the myths about grief.

我还将指出一些关于悲伤的神话。

For instance, many of you have probably heard that there are designated stages of grief that everybody moves through.

例如，你们中的许多人可能听说过每个人都会经历指定的悲伤阶段。

Turns out that recent research refutes that idea.

事实证明，最近的研究驳斥了这个想法。

There are different stages of grief, but not everybody experiences all of them, and hardly ever does somebody move through all of those linearly, meaning in the same order.

悲伤有不同的阶段，但并不是每个人都会经历所有这些阶段，而且几乎没有人以相同的顺序线性地经历所有这些阶段。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I also want to point out that for many of you that are not experiencing grief in this moment, there's an important scientific literature that teaches us that how we show up to grief, meaning our psychological and our biological state that we happen to be in when a loss occurs, strongly dictates whether or not we end up in what's called complicated or noncomplicated grief.

我还想指出，对于许多此刻没有经历悲伤的人来说，有一篇重要的科学文献告诉我们，我们如何表现出悲伤，即当失去亲人时我们所处的心理和生物状态，强烈决定我们最终是否会陷入所谓的复杂或非复杂的悲伤。

And noncomplicated grief is a form of grief that is very prolonged and, in fact, often requires that people get substantial professional help.

简单的悲伤是一种持续时间非常长的悲伤形式，事实上，通常需要人们获得大量的专业帮助。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So whether or not you're experiencing grief that's mild, moderate, or very intense right now, or whether or not you are not experiencing any grief at all, you're going to learn scientific information and tools that will help you navigate through this process that we call grief.

因此，无论您现在是否正在经历轻度、中度或非常强烈的悲伤，或者无论您是否根本没有经历任何悲伤，您都将学习科学信息和工具，以帮助您度过这个我们称之为悲伤的过程。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。

In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay, let's talk about grief.

好吧，我们来谈谈悲伤吧。

I just want to remind you that everybody at some point in their life experiences grief, either mild grief, moderate grief, or extreme grief.

我只是想提醒你，每个人在生命中的某个时刻都会经历悲伤，无论是轻度悲伤、中度悲伤还是极度悲伤。

And it's somewhat obvious, but worth stating nonetheless, that how intense grief feels and how long it lasts scales with how close we were with somebody.

这是显而易见的，但仍然值得一提的是，悲伤的感觉有多强烈以及持续的时间长短取决于我们与某人的亲密程度。

And if you learn that the person who works at the coffee shop or that you see at the coffee shop on a regular basis happened to pass away or tragically get killed in a car accident, that can be quite upsetting.

如果您得知在咖啡店工作的人或您经常在咖啡店见到的人碰巧去世或在车祸中不幸身亡，那可能会非常令人沮丧。

It can be somewhat disorienting to you, if you, for instance, just saw them yesterday or they seemed perfectly fine when you saw them last.

例如，如果您昨天刚刚看到它们，或者当您上次看到它们时它们看起来很好，这可能会让您感到有些迷失方向。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But of course, the grief that results from the loss of somebody to whom you have that level of attachment is far and away different than the level of grief that you would experience from the death of a very close loved one, a sibling, a parent; God forbid, a child.

但是，当然，失去你所依恋的人所带来的悲伤与你因失去一位非常亲密的亲人、兄弟姐妹、父母而经历的悲伤程度有很大不同。上帝保佑，一个孩子。

When that type of loss occurs, it's often the case that our entire relationship to life feels different.

当发生这种类型的损失时，我们与生活的整个关系通常会感觉不同。

Places and things that at once brought us joy and laughter, now bring the opposite.

那些曾经给我们带来欢乐和欢笑的地方和事物，现在却带来了相反的结果。

They bring us intense feelings of sadness and loss.

它们给我们带来强烈的悲伤和失落的感觉。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Psychologists and neuroscientists distinguish between complicated grief and noncomplicated grief.

心理学家和神经科学家区分复杂性悲伤和非复杂性悲伤。

They are very similar at the outset.

它们一开始就非常相似。

One of the fundamental differences between them, however, is that complicated grief, which occurs in about one in 10 people, is a situation in which grief does not seem to resolve itself even after a prolonged period of time.

然而，它们之间的根本区别之一是，大约十分之一的人会出现复杂的悲伤，这种情况即使在很长一段时间后悲伤似乎也无法自行解决。

Later in the episode, I'll point you to the actual tests that are used.

在本集中稍后，我将向您介绍所使用的实际测试。

I've provided links to those in the show note captions that will allow you to distinguish between complicated and noncomplicated grief.

我提供了节目注释标题中的链接，使您能够区分复杂和非复杂的悲伤。

These arrive through the important research of the world-class grief researchers that are out there, and the psychologists that treat grief.

这些都是通过世界一流的悲伤研究人员和治疗悲伤的心理学家的重要研究得出的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The important thing to point out is that grief is a process.

需要指出的重要一点是，悲伤是一个过程。

Like any biological or psychological event, it has a beginning, a middle, and an end.

就像任何生物或心理事件一样，它有开始、中间和结束。

And I do believe that being able to orient, in terms of where you are in that process, can be immensely beneficial.

我确实相信，能够根据自己在这个过程中所处的位置来确定方向，是非常有益的。

Not just for predicting how long it's going to last, but in order to conceptualize the person or animal that you lost in a way that allows you to best preserve their memory while maintaining your own functional capacity in life.

不仅仅是为了预测它会持续多久，而是为了以一种可以让你最好地保存他们的记忆的方式概念化你失去的人或动物，同时保持你自己的生活功能。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Along those lines, I want to point out that grief and depression, while they can feel quite similar in certain ways and have overlapping symptomology, loss of appetite, challenges sleeping, crying in the middle of the day for no apparent reason, et cetera they are distinctly different processes.

沿着这些思路，我想指出，悲伤和抑郁虽然在某些方面感觉非常相似，并且有重叠的症状，比如食欲不振、睡眠困难、无缘无故地在中午哭泣等等，但它们是截然不同的过程。

The modern research teaches us, for instance, that grief rarely responds well to antidepressants, whereas depression can often respond well to antidepressants.

例如，现代研究告诉我们，悲伤很少对抗抑郁药物有良好的反应，而抑郁症通常对抗抑郁药物有良好的反应。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Everything we know and understand about grief is that it is a distinct psychological and physiological event in the brain and body from depression.

我们对悲伤的了解和理解是，它是大脑和身体中与抑郁截然不同的心理和生理事件。

Rather, perhaps the best way to think about grief is that it is actually a motivational state.

相反，也许思考悲伤的最好方式是，它实际上是一种动机状态。

It is a yearning, it is a desire for something.

这是一种向往，是一种对某事的渴望。

And somewhat surprisingly, it's not just a desire to have that person back or to have that animal back.

令人有些惊讶的是，这不仅仅是渴望让那个人回来或让那个动物回来。

You might think, "Well, that's crazy, of course it is."

你可能会想：“嗯，这当然很疯狂。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But, of course, there are instances in which someone passing away or an animal passing away is actually providing relief for that person, because of where they happen to be in their life.

但是，当然，在某些情况下，某人的去世或一只动物的去世实际上是在为该人提供安慰，因为他们碰巧处于生活中的位置。

Today, I'll teach you about grief as a motivational process, because grief as a motivational process really is the way that scientists and psychologists now conceptualize grief and the treatments for grief, so that people can move through them effectively.

今天，我将向您介绍悲伤作为一种动机过程，因为悲伤作为一种动机过程确实是科学家和心理学家现在概念化悲伤和悲伤治疗的方式，以便人们可以有效地度过悲伤。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

As we wade into this important topic, I'd like to emphasize some of the common myths and misunderstandings about grief.

当我们深入讨论这个重要的话题时，我想强调一些关于悲伤的常见神话和误解。

Some of the myths and misunderstanding arrive from the beautiful work of Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, a psychologist who wrote the famous book "On Death and Dying." And I should emphasize that while Kübler-Ross was a real pioneer in establishing that there are indeed different stages of grief, the modern science, both psychology and neuroscience, point to the fact that not everybody experiences all of the stages that Kübler-Ross defined, nor do they move through those stages in a linear manner.

一些神话和误解来自伊丽莎白·库伯勒-罗斯（Elisabeth Kübler-Ross）的精美著作，她是一位心理学家，撰写了著名的著作《论死亡与临终》。我要强调的是，虽然库伯勒-罗斯是确立悲伤确实存在不同阶段的真正先驱，但现代科学，包括心理学和神经科学，都指出，并不是每个人都会经历库伯勒-罗斯定义的所有阶段，也不是以线性方式经历这些阶段。

Sometimes they're out of sequence.

有时它们的顺序不正确。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'll just highlight the five stages that Kübler-Ross illustrated, because some people really do experience all of them.

我将重点介绍库伯勒-罗斯所阐述的五个阶段，因为有些人确实经历了所有这些阶段。

Sometimes in the order I'll read them, but, again, oftentimes they don't.

有时我会按顺序阅读它们，但同样，通常它们不会。

The different stages of grief, very quickly, are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

悲伤的不同阶段很快就是否认、愤怒、讨价还价、抑郁和接受。

In the Kübler-Ross model, denial is always the first stage, and denial is just as it sounds, this disbelief.

在库伯勒-罗斯模型中，否认始终是第一阶段，而否认正如其听起来那样，就是这种怀疑。

It cannot be.

不可能。

There's no way; a refusal to accept the new reality that the person or animal is gone.

没有办法；拒绝接受人或动物已经消失的新现实。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The second stage, anger, is one in which the individual recognizes that the person is indeed gone or the animal is gone, but their body and their mind go into a motivated state.

第二阶段，愤怒，是个体认识到人确实消失了或动物消失了，但他们的身体和思想进入一种激励状态的阶段。

This is important; we're going to return to this idea of grief as a motivated state that involves action plans in more depth as we go further.

这很重要；我们将回到悲伤作为一种积极状态的想法，随着我们的进一步深入，它涉及更深入的行动计划。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then, the third stage is bargaining, what's sometimes called the negotiating phase.

然后，第三阶段是讨价还价，有时称为谈判阶段。

This idea that, "Well, if I had just done this," or, "If they had just done that," or, "If I'd called more." Or somehow refusing to accept the reality, so in a way, this can be blended with denial in thinking, "Well, if I just don't think about, it won't be real," this kind of thing.

这个想法是，“好吧，如果我刚刚做了这个，”或者，“如果他们刚刚做了那个，”或者，“如果我打电话更多。”或者以某种方式拒绝接受现实，所以在某种程度上，这可以与否认的想法混合在一起，“好吧，如果我不去想，它就不会是真实的，”这种事情。

So, again, stages can be blended or braided together, because emotions are complex, right?

所以，再说一次，阶段可以混合或编织在一起，因为情绪很复杂，对吗？

Even though there are different stages to this process, they can sometimes be melded together.

尽管这个过程有不同的阶段，但有时它们可​​以融合在一起。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The fourth stage of depression that Kübler-Ross described is one of "Why go on living?

库伯勒-罗斯描述的抑郁症的第四阶段是“为什么要继续生活？

Why should I go on living?

我为什么要继续活下去？

Why should I continue in this grief-stricken state that seems to deprive me of all the richness of life that I experienced when the person or animal was still here?" And then the fifth stage is acceptance.

为什么我要继续处于这种悲伤的状态，这种状态似乎剥夺了我在这个人或动物还在这里时所经历的所有丰富的生活？”然后第五阶段是接受。

This internalization, not just cognitively, not just thinking, but emotionally that it's going to be okay, that not just "this too shall pass," but that it has passed.

这种内化，不仅仅是认知上，不仅仅是思考，而是情感上，一切都会好起来的，不仅仅是“这也会过去”，而是它已经过去了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So again, the five stages of grief that Kübler-Ross defined were immensely important as a critical parsing of the different stages that one could move through.

再说一次，库伯勒-罗斯定义的悲伤的五个阶段对于人们可能经历的不同阶段的批判性解析非常重要。

But, unfortunately, those five stages were sort of taken to be gospel for a long time, and we now know, based on neuroimaging, based on more in-depth psychological evaluation, and, frankly, more researchers and clinicians moving into this area and observing that while much of what Kübler-Ross described does hold true, it's not always the case.

但不幸的是，这五个阶段长期以来被认为是福音，我们现在知道，基于神经影像学，基于更深入的心理评估，坦率地说，更多的研究人员和临床医生进入这一领域并观察到，虽然库伯勒-罗斯描述的大部分内容确实成立，但情况并非总是如此。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And in fact, the contour of the grief process actually has a lot of dimensions that are not encapsulated by those five stages.

事实上，悲伤过程的轮廓实际上有很多维度没有被这五个阶段所概括。

There's also a lot of variation depending on whether or not the loss is due to old age, disease, whether or not there was suffering prior or not, suicide or nonsuicide-type deaths and losses, and even grief about nondeath losses, a relationship breakup or something of that sort, or even homesickness and things of that sort.

还有很多差异，取决于损失是否是由于年老、疾病、之前是否遭受过痛苦、自杀或非自杀型死亡和损失，甚至是对非死亡损失的悲伤、关系破裂或类似的事情，甚至是思乡之类的事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So I do want to tip our hats to the incredible work of Elisabeth Kübler-Ross.

因此，我确实想向伊丽莎白·库伯勒-罗斯 (Elisabeth Kübler-Ross) 的出色工作致敬。

By no means am I or do other researchers try and discount her incredible contributions, but I think nowadays we have a different and, frankly, a better understanding of what the grief process is like, and as a consequence, better tools to move through grief.

我或其他研究人员绝不试图贬低她令人难以置信的贡献，但我认为现在我们对悲伤的过程有了不同的、坦率地说更好的理解，因此，我们有了更好的工具来度过悲伤。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In order to really understand what grief is in your brain and body, and how to best navigate grief, I'd like you to do an experiment with me.

为了真正了解你的大脑和身体中的悲伤是什么，以及如何最好地应对悲伤，我希望你和我一起做一个实验。

For the next five minutes or so, I'd like you to at least try to discard of all prior notions of grief as just a state of sadness.

在接下来的五分钟左右的时间里，我希望你至少尝试放弃所有先前认为悲伤只是一种悲伤状态的想法。

I want to acknowledge that it is and does involve sadness, but for right now, let's think about grief as a motivational state, as a desire for something specific.

我想承认它确实涉及悲伤，但现在，让我们将悲伤视为一种动机状态，作为对特定事物的渴望。

In fact, I'd like you to think about grief as an attempt to reach out and get something that you very much want.

事实上，我希望你将悲伤视为一种尝试去获取你非常想要的东西。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Imagine yourself extremely thirsty, for instance, on a very hot day, and a glass of water is right in front of you, and it's a beautiful, clean glass of water, and it's completely full, and you so badly want to drink that water.

想象一下你自己非常口渴，例如，在一个非常热的天，一杯水就在你面前，这是一杯漂亮、干净的水，而且它已经满了，你非常想喝那水。

But no matter how intensely you want it, and no matter how hard you try and reach it, it always shifts just outside your reach.

但无论你多么强烈地想要它，无论你多么努力地尝试去实现它，它总是超出你的能力范围。

So if you can imagine that, even just a little bit, you are touching into the experience of grief.

因此，如果你能想象，哪怕只是一点点，你就正在经历悲伤的经历。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

How do I know this?

我怎么知道这个？

Well, I know this because brain-imaging studies involving what's called functional magnetic resonance imaging, fMRI — in which you can evaluate which brain areas are more active than others according to blood flow, which correlates with neural activity and so forth — teach us that the brain areas that are associated with motivation and craving and pursuit are some of the primary brain areas and circuits that are activated in states of grief.

嗯，我知道这一点，因为大脑成像研究涉及所谓的功能性磁共振成像（fMRI）——你可以根据血流量评估哪些大脑区域比其他区域更活跃，而血流量与神经活动等相关——告诉我们，与动机、渴望和追求相关的大脑区域是在悲伤状态下被激活的一些主要大脑区域和回路。

I'd like to share an important paper with you, and it is one of the first to illustrate the fact that grief is not just a state of sadness and pain.

我想与您分享一篇重要的论文，它是第一篇说明悲伤不仅仅是悲伤和痛苦的状态这一事实的论文之一。

It is indeed a state of yearning and desire of something that is just outside your reach, and unfortunately, will always be just outside your reach until you remap your relationship to that person or thing.

这确实是一种对某种超出你能力范围的事物的向往和渴望，不幸的是，除非你重新映射你与那个人或事的关系，否则它永远是你能力之外的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The title of this paper is posed first as a question, so that's why I'll read it as such.

本文的标题首先是作为一个问题提出的，因此我将这样阅读它。

The title is "Craving love?

标题是《渴望爱情？

Enduring grief activates brain's reward center," and the first author of this paper is Mary-Frances O'Connor.

持久的悲伤会激活大脑的奖励中心。”这篇论文的第一作者是玛丽-弗朗西斯·奥康纳。

She's a professor of psychology at the University of Arizona, and one of the world leaders in the study of grief from a neuroscience perspective.

她是亚利桑那大学的心理学教授，也是从神经科学角度研究悲伤的世界领先者之一。

With some luck, we'll get her here on the podcast as a guest.

如果运气好的话，我们会让她作为嘉宾出现在播客上。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, this paper has several important features.

现在，这篇论文有几个重要的特点。

I'll just highlight a few.

我只强调几个。

One of the features of this paper that's not surprising is they found that people who are in a state of grief are in a state of pain.

这篇论文的一个不足为奇的特点是，他们发现处于悲伤状态的人实际上处于痛苦状态。

That is, brain areas associated with pain, actual physical pain, are more active than in nongrieving individuals.

也就是说，与疼痛（实际的身体疼痛）相关的大脑区域比非悲伤个体更活跃。

However, they also found that people who are experiencing what's called complicated grief showed reward-related activity in a brain area called the nucleus accumbens.

然而，他们还发现，正在经历所谓的复杂悲伤的人在称为伏隔核的大脑区域表现出与奖励相关的活动。

What is reward-related activity?

什么是奖励相关活动？

Reward-related activity is activity of neurons that's associated with motivational states.

奖励相关活动是与动机状态相关的神经元活动。

And the nucleus accumbens is a brain center in which dopamine has the effect of creating a motivated state.

伏隔核是大脑中枢，多巴胺在其中具有创造动机状态的作用。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If ever you thought that dopamine was only associated with feeling good — you hear about dopamine hits — well, this paper and papers like it firmly tell us that dopamine is not about feeling good.

如果你曾经认为多巴胺只与感觉良好有关——你听说过多巴胺的影响——那么，这篇论文和类似的论文坚定地告诉我们，多巴胺与感觉良好无关。

Dopamine is about placing us into a state of desiring things and seeking things.

多巴胺会让我们进入一种渴望事物和寻求事物的状态。

This is true in addiction.

对于成瘾来说也是如此。

This is true when we're hungry and we want to eat.

当我们饿了并且想吃东西时，情况就是如此。

This is true when we want to reproduce.

当我们想要重现时确实如此。

This is true in every state in which we are reaching for something outside our immediate ability to give that thing to ourselves.

在任何一种状态下，当我们追求的东西超出了我们直接给予自己的能力时，情况都是如此。

This is very important to understand if you want to understand grief and how to move through grief.

如果您想了解悲伤以及如何度过悲伤，了解这一点非常重要。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Grief is not just about sadness.

悲伤不仅仅是悲伤。

It is a state of sadness.

这是一种悲伤的状态。

Hence, the activation of brain areas associated with pain.

因此，与疼痛相关的大脑区域被激活。

And it is a state of desire and reaching for something.

这是一种渴望并追求某事的状态。

And for those of you that have experienced grief, I think that will resonate with you.

对于那些经历过悲伤的人来说，我认为这会引起你们的共鸣。

In that understanding that grief is both a state of pain but also a state of wanting, and in the understanding that when we lose somebody, either because of breakup or because of death, or if an animal dies or gets taken away or is missing, that state of wanting and desire drives an activation state within us.

理解悲伤既是一种痛苦的状态，也是一种想要的状态，并且理解当我们失去某人时，无论是因为分手还是因为死亡，或者如果动物死亡或被带走或失踪，这种想要和欲望的状态会驱动我们内心的激活状态。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, the key thing to understand is that the activation of those reward centers and the involvement of dopamine puts us into an anticipatory state, a state of waiting for something to happen.

现在，要理解的关键是，这些奖励中心的激活和多巴胺的参与使我们进入一种预期状态，一种等待某事发生的状态。

It also puts us into a state of action or desiring action.

它还使我们进入行动或渴望行动的状态。

Our body and our mind are what I like to refer to as center of mass forward.

我喜欢将我们的身体和思想称为前进的质心。

We are seeking how to resolve the craving, even if we know that is impossible.

我们正在寻求如何解决这种渴望，即使我们知道这是不可能的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Why do I say that?

我为什么这么说呢？

Well, we understand, also on the basis of brain-imaging studies and also some studies in animals that I'll describe in a moment, that in order to understand grief, we have to understand how attachments are represented in our brain.

嗯，我们知道，基于大脑成像研究以及我稍后将描述的一些动物研究，为了理解悲伤，我们必须了解依恋在我们的大脑中是如何表达的。

And it turns out that both attachments and the breaking of attachments in healthy ways are governed by three important, what we call, dimensions.

事实证明，依恋和以健康的方式打破依恋都受到三个重要维度的控制，即我们所说的维度。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

A dimension is just some feature of the world that's represented in our brain.

维度只是我们大脑中所代表的世界的一些特征。

So for instance, the color red doesn't exist in your brain.

举例来说，红色在你的大脑中并不存在。

You happen to have cells, neurons in your eye that respond best to long wavelengths of light, and those long wavelengths of light happen to be what are reflected off things that are perceived as red.

你的眼睛里恰好有对长波长光反应最好的细胞、神经元，而这些长波长光恰好是被感知为红色的物体反射的光。

So in your mind, you have a notion of red.

所以在你的脑海里，你有一个红色的概念。

I know this is a little bit abstract, but you're not actually lighting up red neurons in your brain, and that's why you see red.

我知道这有点抽象，但你实际上并没有点亮大脑中的红色神经元，这就是你看到红色的原因。

You are lighting up neurons in your brain that represent the presence of red things in your environment.

您正在点亮大脑中的神经元，这些神经元代表您的环境中存在红色物体。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Similarly, we have neurons and maps, or, we say, representations of other dimensions.

类似地，我们有神经元和地图，或者我们说，其他维度的表示。

We have dimensions of touch.

我们有触摸的维度。

We have dimensions of sound.

我们有声音的维度。

And as I'll now teach you, we have three dimensions that define our relationship to people and animals and things.

正如我现在要教你的，我们有三个维度来定义我们与人、动物和事物的关系。

And when those people, animals, and things are within our immediate vicinity, or if we know how we could access them, if somebody's still alive, there's generally some way to access them, unless they're refusing to interact with us.

当这些人、动物和事物在我们附近时，或者如果我们知道如何访问它们，如果有人还活着，通常有某种方式可以访问它们，除非他们拒绝与我们互动。

Well, when we understand that, our motivational states can operate in a way that's logical.

好吧，当我们理解这一点时，我们的动机状态就可以以合乎逻辑的方式运作。

We know that, for instance, if we want to find our mother, brother, sister, significant other, dog, cat, parrot, et cetera we have to go through a certain set of steps.

例如，我们知道，如果我们想找到我们的母亲、兄弟、姐妹、重要的其他人、狗、猫、鹦鹉等，我们必须执行一组特定的步骤。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What are those three dimensions?

这三个维度是什么？

And how do they work?

它们是如何工作的？

And that's what I'm going to teach you now.

这就是我现在要教你的。

So at risk of sounding a little bit too reductionist, we are now going to describe your relationship to anything, everything, and anyone in these three dimensions.

因此，冒着听起来有点过于还原论的风险，我们现在将在这三个维度中描述你与任何事物、所有事物和任何人的关系。

How can we do that?

我们怎样才能做到这一点？

Why would we even want to do that?

我们为什么要这么做？

Why would we want to rob the complexity of relationships of their contour and their detail?

为什么我们要剥夺其轮廓和细节关系的复杂性？

Well, if we can understand the dimensions in which we map our relationship to people, animals, and things, then we can understand why it is that when those people, animals, or things are not accessible to us, why it hurts so much.

好吧，如果我们能够理解我们与人、动物和事物的关系的维度，那么我们就能理解为什么当我们无法接近这些人、动物或事物时，为什么会如此痛苦。

And why it takes a certain amount of time in order to understand, if you will, or remap our association to them.

以及为什么需要一定的时间才能理解（如果您愿意的话）或重新映射我们与它们的关联。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I promise that in grasping the information I'm about to give you, you will be able to better orient in the grief process, and you'll be able to move through it more effectively.

我保证，在掌握了我将要向您提供的信息后，您将能够更好地适应悲伤过程，并且能够更有效地度过它。

The three dimensions of relating to someone or an animal or a thing are space, time, and closeness.

与某人、动物或事物相关的三个维度是空间、时间和亲密程度。

And in order to illustrate each one and how they work together to support relationships and their involvement in the grieving process, I'm going to tell you about an experiment.

为了说明每个人以及他们如何共同努力支持人际关系以及他们对悲伤过程的参与，我将向您介绍一个实验。

This experiment was actually done.

这个实验确实做了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The experiment involves putting people into a brain scanner that allows the researcher to evaluate brain activity in different areas, in fact, can look in a very nonbiased way, not make any predictions about which brain areas are going to be involved.

该实验涉及将人们放入大脑扫描仪中，使研究人员能够评估不同区域的大脑活动，事实上，可以以非常公正的方式进行观察，而不是对哪些大脑区域将受到影响做出任何预测。

And the experiment is the following: The person, I should say, the research subject, first sees images of things that reside at different distances from one another.

实验如下：这个人，我应该说，研究对象，首先看到彼此距离不同的事物的图像。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And when I say things, these are objects.

当我说事物时，这些都是物体。

So in one case, it's a beach or a parking lot with bowling balls set at different distances from one another.

因此，在一种情况下，这是一个海滩或停车场，保龄球彼此之间的距离不同。

Their brain is imaged, and as their brain is imaged, they see different pictures of different scenes: the beach, the parking lot, et cetera bowling balls spaced in different ways, close together, far apart, regularly spaced, nonregularly spaced.

他们的大脑被成像，当他们的大脑被成像时，他们看到不同场景的不同图片：海滩、停车场等等，保龄球以不同的方式间隔，靠近，远离，规则间隔，不规则间隔。

When one does this sort of experiment, you see a lot of brain areas activated, not surprisingly, the visual cortex, the area of the brain that is responsible for creating visual perceptions, but also a brain area that seems uniquely tuned to the distance between you and the objects.

当人们进行此类实验时，你会看到许多大脑区域被激活，这并不奇怪，视觉皮层是大脑中负责产生视觉感知的区域，但也是一个似乎对你与物体之间的距离进行独特调节的大脑区域。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So whether or not the bowling balls are far away or close together from one another, and whether or not they're far away or close to you physically.

因此，无论保龄球彼此之间的距离是否远或近，以及它们在物理上是否离您远或近。

So, literally, the distance between you and these objects.

所以，从字面上看，就是你和这些物体之间的距离。

We'll refer to that measure, that dimension, as we call it, as proximity.

我们将把这个度量、那个维度称为接近度。

Okay?

好的？

Whether or not it's very close to you, high degree of proximity, or far away, low proximity, but it's simply physical space.

无论它是否离你很近，接近度高，或者很远，接近度低，但这只是物理空间。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Then subjects listen to tones.

然后受试者听音调。

Those tones also are spaced from one another.

这些音调也彼此间隔开。

So it could be something as simple as my hand meeting the table top that I happen to be sitting in front of.

所以这可能是很简单的事情，比如我的手碰到了我碰巧坐在前面的桌面。

So it's ...

所以这是...

they image the brain.

他们对大脑进行想象。

Of course, areas of the brain that are associated with auditory perception are active, not surprisingly.

当然，大脑中与听觉相关的区域是活跃的，这并不奇怪。

But as they evaluate different types of sounds and patterns of sounds, for instance, they can start to parse brain areas that seem uniquely tuned to the spacing of sounds, independent of what sounds are coming in.

但是，例如，当他们评估不同类型的声音和声音模式时，他们可以开始解析似乎专门针对声音间隔进行调整的大脑区域，而与传入的声音无关。

So whether or not it's musical notes or my hand hitting the table or human speech, they identify a brain region that is uniquely tuned.

因此，无论是音符、我的手敲击桌子还是人类的言语，它们都能识别出经过独特调整的大脑区域。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That is, it becomes active specifically in response to changes in the spacing between sounds, much in the same way as they could identify brain regions that were only activated when there were changes in the distance between objects, such as the bowling balls that I used in the previous example.

也就是说，它会专门针对声音之间的间距变化而变得活跃，就像它们可以识别仅在物体之间的距离发生变化时激活的大脑区域一样，例如我在前面的例子中使用的保龄球。

And then the subjects saw a different set of images.

然后受试者看到了一组不同的图像。

The images that they saw were of people and of faces, and some of the images that they saw were of people's faces right up close, and other images were of people at a distance, where you could see the whole body of the person.

他们看到的图像是人、脸，有的图像是近距离的人脸，有的图像是远处的人，可以看到人的全身。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, they also varied the emotional relationship to those people.

现在，他们也改变了与这些人的情感关系。

That is they were able to get photographs from these research subjects' lives, so they could show them pictures of, for instance, their sister or some random person off the street.

也就是说，他们能够从这些研究对象的生活中获取照片，这样他们就可以向他们展示他们的姐妹或街上随机的某个人的照片。

They could show them pictures of a parent or of a neighbor or of a celebrity that's well-known or of somebody that they didn't know at all.

他们可以给他们看父母、邻居、知名名人或他们根本不认识的人的照片。

So they were able to vary both the position of the person, close or far, and they were able to vary the emotional distance to the person.

因此，他们能够改变人的位置（近或远），并且能够改变与人的情感距离。

Which is this dimension that I'm referring to as closeness, which is not physical closeness, but how attached or how well you know somebody.

我所说的亲密程度就是这个维度，不是身体上的亲密程度，而是你对某人的依恋程度或了解程度。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, this is maybe sounding like a somewhat complicated experiment, but the takeaway from this experiment is exquisitely simple and exquisitely important.

现在，这可能听起来像是一个有点复杂的实验，但这个实验的结论非常简单而且非常重要。

The result was that in all three conditions, changes in the physical spacing of these objects, changes in the temporal, that is the time spacing of these sounds, and changes in the emotional distance between the subject and different people, the same brain area was uniquely activated.

结果是，在所有三种条件下，这些物体的物理间距的变化、时间的变化（即这些声音的时间间隔的变化）以及受试者与不同人之间的情感距离的变化，相同的大脑区域被独特地激活。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, that is an incredible thing to find, because what it suggests is that, yes, of course, there are brain areas that are associated with representation of visual objects.

现在，这是一个令人难以置信的发现，因为它表明，是的，当然，存在与视觉对象的表征相关的大脑区域。

And that, yes, of course, there are brain areas associated with representation of different sounds.

是的，当然，大脑中存在与不同声音的表征相关的区域。

And, of course, there are brain areas associated with faces.

当然，还有一些与面部相关的大脑区域。

We now know this.

我们现在知道了这一点。

In fact, there's something called the fusiform face area, which is uniquely tuned to faces.

事实上，有一种叫做梭形面部区域的东西，它专门针对面部进行调整。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But at the same time, there is a unique brain region that is activated in all three of the conditions I described, that has to do with how far you are from somebody both in space, in time, and in terms of emotional closeness.

但与此同时，有一个独特的大脑区域在我描述的所有三种情况下都会被激活，这与你在空间、时间和情感上与某人的距离有多远有关。

And that brain area, it turns out, is a brain area called the inferior parietal lobule, the inferior parietal lobule.

事实证明，那个大脑区域是一个叫做顶下小叶的大脑区域，顶下小叶。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, you don't need to know where the inferior parietal lobule is.

现在，您不需要知道顶下小叶在哪里。

In fact, you don't even need to know the name of this brain area.

事实上，你甚至不需要知道这个大脑区域的名称。

What you do need to know, however, if you want to understand grief and how to move through grief, is that your map of people is not a map of emotional closeness per se.

然而，如果你想理解悲伤以及如何度过悲伤，你需要知道的是，你的人脉图本身并不是一张情感亲密的地图。

It is a map of emotional closeness, what we call attachment, that is interwoven, that is braided in in a very intimate way with your map of where they are in physical space and where they are in time, when you saw them last, when you're likely to see them again.

这是一张情感亲密的地图，我们称之为依恋，它是交织在一起的，以一种非常亲密的方式与你的地图编织在一起，显示他们在物理空间中的位置，他们在时间上的位置，你最后一次看到他们的时间，当你可能再次看到他们的时候。

And if you were to want to see them, how much time it would take to reach them or for them to reach you.

如果您想见他们，需要多长时间才能到达他们或他们到达您那里。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, earlier I said that one of the key functions of our nervous system is to be able to make predictions.

现在，我之前说过，我们神经系统的关键功能之一是能够做出预测。

And so it's somewhat obvious, but nonetheless important to state and restate that one of the most powerful aspects of our attachments to people, animals, and things is our ability to predict what it would take to see them again.

因此，这有点明显，但仍然重要的是要声明和重申，我们对人、动物和事物的依恋最强大的方面之一是我们有能力预测再次见到它们需要什么。

And when we are going to see them again.

当我们再次见到他们时。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In fact, we could say that our ability to locate someone or an animal or a thing in space and time, where they are and how long it would take for us to reach them or them to reach us, is a prediction of the requirements to engage in the attachment.

事实上，我们可以说，我们在空间和时间上定位某人或动物或事物的能力，他们在哪里，以及我们需要多长时间才能到达他们或他们到达我们，是对参与依恋的要求的预测。

In order to illustrate this at a little bit more depth, let's just do a fill-in-the-blank experiment.

为了更深入地说明这一点，我们来做一个填空实验。

You can do this now in real time.

您现在可以实时执行此操作。

I want you to think of somebody that you either rely on or that you care about very, very much.

我希望你能想起一个你非常依赖或者非常关心的人。

And I'll just allow you to fill in the blank on this sentence.

我只允许你填写这句话的空白。

If I want to see blank, the person or animal, I could see them within blank amount of time.

如果我想看到空白的人或动物，我可以在空白的时间内看到它们。

If right now you wanted to see this person or animal or maybe even a thing, how long would it take you to reach them?

如果现在你想见这个人或动物或者甚至是一个东西，你需要多长时间才能到达他们？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Could be a day, could be a second, could be there right next to you, all you'd have to do is turn your head.

可能是一天，可能是一秒钟，可能就在你身边，你所要做的就是转过头。

Now, answer this, if this person were to travel halfway around the world and land in their plane, I would expect to hear from them within blank minutes of them landing.

现在，回答这个问题，如果这个人要环游半个世界并乘坐他们的飞机降落，我希望在他们降落后的空白几分钟内收到他们的消息。

Okay.

好的。

The answers to this, of course, will differ.

当然，这个问题的答案会有所不同。

Now, I'd like you to answer this question: "If I'd like to find myself, it would take me X amount of time." And, of course, if you're listening to this and you're understanding it and you're of a rational mind, the answer to that should be zero seconds, instantaneous.

现在，我希望你回答这个问题：“如果我想找到自己，我需要X时间。”当然，如果你正在听这个并且你正在理解它并且你有一个理性的头脑，那么答案应该是零秒，即刻。

You are always able to locate yourself in space and time, provided you are in the appropriate state of mind, meaning not asleep, for instance.

只要你处于适当的心态，例如没有睡着，你总是能够在空间和时间中定位自己。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That last question might seem somewhat silly, but it's a fundamentally important one, because it illustrates the extremes at which we map our relationship to ourselves relative to other people and things.

最后一个问题可能看起来有些愚蠢，但它是一个根本上重要的问题，因为它说明了我们相对于其他人和事物来映射我们与自己的关系的极端情况。

Now, if all of this sounds like a bunch of neuro psychobabble parsing of the obvious, I'd encourage you to suspend that belief for the moment.

现在，如果所有这些听起来像是一堆对显而易见的神经心理学的胡言乱语的解析，我鼓励你暂时搁置这种信念。

Because if you understand that all relationships are mapped in the brain and body through these three dimensions, space, time, and closeness, or proximity of space, proximity in time, and proximity of attachment, how close or rich or bonded you are to someone, well, if you can understand that, then it almost becomes obvious, or at least it becomes intuitive as to why after the loss of somebody, in particular a death or the loss of an animal, this map has to be reordered.

因为如果你明白，所有的关系都是通过这三个维度，空间、时间和亲密程度，或者空间的接近程度、时间的接近程度和依恋的接近程度，在大脑和身体中映射出来的，你与某人的亲密程度、丰富程度或联系程度，那么，如果你能理解这一点，那么它几乎变得显而易见，或者至少变得直观，为什么在失去某人，特别是死亡或失去动物后，这张地图必须重新排序。

Why?

为什么？

Because if we are attached to someone or an animal at a deep level, it is almost always on the basis of a lot of what we call episodic experience.

因为如果我们对某人或某种动物有深刻的依恋，那么它几乎总是建立在许多我们所谓的情景经验的基础上。

A lot of episodic memories, memories of things that happened.

很多情景记忆，对发生过的事情的记忆。

Episodic memories are literally the conscious recollection of your experience of somebody or an animal or a thing.

情景记忆实际上是你对某人、动物或事物的经历的有意识的回忆。

And within that memory, you have an understanding of what has happened with them in association to you, what's going on with them, where it happened, when it happened.

在这段记忆中，你可以了解与你相关的他们所发生的事情，他们正在发生什么，发生在哪里，发生的时间。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You have a rich knowledge database that we call implicit knowledge — you might not be aware of it all the time, but it's within you — of what this person is like and what they're doing in their life.

你有一个丰富的知识数据库，我们称之为隐性知识——你可能不会一直意识到它，但它就在你的内心——关于这个人是什么样的人以及他们在生活中所做的事情。

When somebody is taken away from us, for whatever reason, episodic memories persist for some period of time, and they are still linked to our feelings of attachment.

当某人因某种原因被从我们身边带走时，情景记忆会持续一段时间，并且仍然与我们的依恋感联系在一起。

Grief is the process of uncoupling, unbraiding, and untangling that relationship between where people are in space, in time, and our attachment to them.

悲伤是解开、解开和理清人们在空间、时间上的位置和我们对他们的依恋之间关系的过程。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What I mean by this is when somebody or an animal or a thing is taken from us, either by decision or by death or by circumstance, well, in that case, our entire memory bank and our ability to predict where and when they will be, and therefore when we can feed our attachment to them again, that whole map is obliterated, except that the attachment itself has not been disrupted.

我的意思是，当某人、一只动物或一件东西从我们身边被夺走时，无论是由于决定、死亡还是环境，那么，在这种情况下，我们的整个记忆库以及我们预测它们何时何地的能力，因此当我们再次对它们产生依恋时，整个地图就会被抹去，除了依恋本身没有被破坏。

Assuming that you are deeply attached to someone or an animal or a thing, that attachment persists, and the grief process is one in which you have to reorder your understanding of them in space and in time.

假设你深深地依恋某人、一只动物或一件事，这种依恋会持续存在，而悲伤的过程就是你必须在空间和时间上重新安排你对它们的理解的过程。

This is very, very hard to do, and for some people, it's almost impossible to do, at least at the outset of grief.

这是非常非常难做到的，对于某些人来说，这几乎是不可能做到的，至少在悲伤开始时是这样。

This in a very-

这在一个非常-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

At least at the outset of grief.

至少在悲伤开始时是这样。

This in a very neurosciencey way explains this stage that Kübler-Ross described, which many, again, not all, but many people experience, which is one of denial.

这以一种非常神经科学的方式解释了库伯勒-罗斯所描述的这个阶段，同样，很多人，不是全部，但很多人都经历过这个阶段，这是一种否认。

"How could it be?

“怎么可能呢？

Why?" Well, when we have a rich catalog of experiences with somebody or of them, ideas about them and what they do, how they spend their day, what they do and don't do, where they do it, et cetera well, that memory bank is not just flushed out the moment that we learn that they're no longer with us.

为什么？”好吧，当我们拥有与某人或他们的经历的丰富目录，关于他们的想法以及他们做什么，他们如何度过一天，他们做什么和不做什么，他们在哪里做等等，那么记忆库不会在我们得知他们不再和我们在一起的那一刻就被冲掉。

What happens is the brain continues to make these predictions that they will be in a certain place, or a certain time, that they'll be in a certain time zone, or they'll walk in the door any moment.

发生的事情是大脑继续做出这些预测，他们将在某个地方，或某个时间，他们将在某个时区，或者他们将在任何时刻走进门。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

All of those predictions still hold.

所有这些预测仍然成立。

The neural activity continues.

神经活动仍在继续。

We call this reverberatory activity.

我们称这种活动为反射活动。

That explains the yearning for and the desire to interact and yet it's just beyond our reach, because once they're gone, our brain still functions in a way, these neural circuits still function in a way that put us into an action state of seeking them, looking for them in the same location, expecting them to contact us at whatever frequency that we were used to hearing from them or that we could reach out to them and reliably get a response.

这就解释了我们对互动的渴望和渴望，但它却超出了我们的能力范围，因为一旦它们消失，我们的大脑仍然以某种方式运作，这些神经回路仍然以某种方式运作，让我们进入寻找它们的行动状态，在同一个位置寻找它们，期望它们以我们习惯于听到它们的频率联系我们，或者我们可以联系它们并可靠地得到回应。

It is immensely disorienting, in other words, to maintain a close attachment, and at the same time to not be able to make predictions about where that person, animal or thing is in space and time.

换句话说，保持紧密的依恋，同时又无法预测那个人、动物或事物在空间和时间上的位置，这是非常令人迷失方向的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, if this seems somewhat abstract, I'm going to continue to flesh it out.

现在，如果这看起来有点抽象，我将继续充实它。

Actually, right now, I'd like to flesh it out with a real-world example of grief and loss that comes to us from perhaps one of the greatest minds in human history and somebody who was intensely grounded in reality and logic, and, indeed, the physics of the world.

事实上，现在，我想用一个真实世界的悲伤和失落的例子来充实它，这个例子可能来自人类历史上最伟大的思想家之一，也是一个深深扎根于现实和逻辑以及世界物理学的人。

The person I'm referring to is none other than the Nobel Prize-winning physicist Richard Feynman.

我指的这个人不是别人，正是诺贝尔物理学奖获得者理查德·费曼。

Many of you are probably familiar with Richard Feynman, some of you perhaps are not.

你们中的许多人可能熟悉理查德·费曼，但也有一些人可能不熟悉。

Richard Feynman was a Nobel Prize-winning physicist known for his thick New York accent.

理查德·费曼是一位诺贝尔奖获得者、物理学家，以其浓重的纽约口音而闻名。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

He was actually not from Brooklyn, as many people think.

他实际上并不像许多人认为的那样来自布鲁克林。

He was actually from Far Rockaway in Long Island.

他实际上来自长岛的远洛克威。

Thick New York accent, very personable, exceptional teacher, brilliant mind, hence the Nobel Prize in physics.

浓重的纽约口音，非常风度翩翩，杰出的老师，聪明的头脑，因此获得了诺贝尔物理学奖。

Also, a quite funny and amusing person, told great anecdotes, et cetera.

此外，一个非常有趣的人，讲述了伟大的轶事等等。

Feynman had a childhood sweetheart who turned out to be his first wife, her name was Arline.

费曼有一个青梅竹马的恋人，后来成为他的第一任妻子，她的名字叫阿琳。

It was well-known that Feynman was absolutely in love with her.

众所周知，费曼绝对爱上了她。

He would talk about her all the time.

他会一直谈论她。

She had a profound influence on him and his thinking and ultimately on his public education efforts later.

她对他和他的思想，并最终对他后来的公共教育工作产生了深远的影响。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If you haven't already read books such as "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman," or "What Do You Care What Other People Think?" I encourage you to do so.

如果您还没有读过《费曼先生，你肯定在开玩笑》或《你在乎别人怎么想吗？》等书。我鼓励你这样做。

In fact that quote, "What do you care what other people think?" is actually a quote not of Feynman, but of his first wife, Arline, who sadly died at a very young age from tuberculosis.

事实上，那句话是“你在乎别人怎么想吗？”这句话实际上不是费曼的名言，而是他的第一任妻子阿琳的名言，她在很小的时候就因肺结核不幸去世。

Why am I sharing Feynman's story of loss of his first bride?

我为什么要分享费曼失去第一任新娘的故事？

Well, the reason is Feynman continued to write letters to Arline for a long period of time.

嗯，原因是费曼在很长一段时间内继续给阿琳写信。

This is well-known only because after Feynman died, it was discovered that he kept an archive of letters to his deceased first wife.

之所以众所周知，是因为费曼去世后，人们发现他保存了一份写给已故第一任妻子的信件档案。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Even though he did eventually marry and, in fact, had many relationships with many people, and I think was married twice more, maybe it was once, maybe it was twice, the intensity of his grief, but also his lack of ability to transition his mind to a place where he understood that Arline had died is one of the more profound examples of this inability to reconcile the logical world and the emotional world.

尽管他最终结婚了，而且事实上与很多人建立了很多关系，而且我认为他又结婚了两次，也许是一次，也许是两次，他的悲伤的强度，但他缺乏能力将自己的思想转移到他理解阿琳已经去世的地方，这是这种无法调和逻辑世界和情感世界的更深刻的例子之一。

I'm now going to read to you a letter that Feynman wrote to Arline.

我现在要给你们读一封费曼写给阿琳的信。

This was discovered after Feynman's death when they went through his desk and his belongings.

费曼死后，他们在检查他的办公桌和随身物品时发现了这一点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

As I read this, you're going to hear some of the typical narrative of grief that is not unique to Feynman and his dead wife.

当我读到这篇文章时，你会听到一些典型的悲伤叙述，这并不是费曼和他死去的妻子所独有的。

But there are also some elements in there that I think you'll recognize as highlighting this disbelief and this dissociation between the reality of somebody's location in space and time and the emotional attachment that they hold for us, and therein lies the information about how to better navigate grief.

但其中也有一些元素，我认为你会认识到，它们强调了某人在时空位置的现实与他们对我们的情感依恋之间的怀疑和分离，其中蕴含着如何更好地应对悲伤的信息。

So now I'm reading from the letter.

现在我正在读这封信。

This was a letter dated October 17th, 1946.

这是一封日期为 1946 年 10 月 17 日的信。

It's not terribly long, but bear with me.

虽然不是很长，但请耐心等待。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

"Dear Arline, I adore you, Sweetheart.

“亲爱的阿琳，我爱你，甜心。

I know how much you like to hear that, but I don't only write it because you like it.

我知道你有多喜欢听这个，但我写它不仅仅是因为你喜欢它。

I write it because it makes me warm all over inside to write it to you.

我写这封信是因为写给你让我内心感到温暖。

It is such a terribly long time since I last wrote to you, almost two years, but I know you'll excuse me because you understand how I am, stubborn and realistic, and I thought there was no sense to writing.

自从我上次给你写信以来已经过去了很长时间，差不多两年了，但我知道你会原谅我，因为你了解我的性格，固执而现实，而我认为写信没有意义。

But now I know, my darling wife, that it is the right thing to do what I have delayed in doing and that I have done so much in the past.

但现在我知道，我亲爱的妻子，做我迟迟没有做的事情是正确的，而且我过去已经做了很多事情。

I wanted to tell you I love you.

我想告诉你我爱你。

I want to love you.

我想爱你。

I will always love you."

我会永远爱你。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So here we can hear the intense emotional attachment that clearly has persisted.

所以在这里我们可以听到明显持续存在的强烈的情感依恋。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

"I find it hard to understand in my mind what it means to love you after you are dead, but I still want to comfort and take care of you, and I want you to love me and care for me.

“我心里很难理解你死后爱你意味着什么，但我还是想安慰你、照顾你，也想让你爱我、关心我。

I want to have problems to discuss with you.

有问题想和你讨论。

I want to do little projects with you.

我想和你一起做一些小项目。

I never thought until just now that we can do that.

直到现在我才想到我们可以做到这一点。

What should we do?

我们应该做什么？

We started to learn to make clothes together or learn Chinese or getting a movie projector.

我们开始一起学习做衣服或者学习中文或者买电影放映机。

Can't I do something now?

我现在不能做点什么吗？

No, I am alone without you and you were the idea woman and the general instigator of all our wild adventures.

不，没有你，我孤身一人，而你是我们所有疯狂冒险的创意女人和总煽动者。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

"When you were sick, you worried because you could not give me something that you wanted and you thought I needed.

“当你生病时，你会担心，因为你无法给我你想要的东西，而你认为我需要。

You needn't have worried.

你不必担心。

Just as I told you then, there was no real need because I loved you in so many ways so much, and now it is clearly even more true.

正如我当时告诉你的那样，没有真正的必要，因为我在很多方面都非常爱你，现在显然更加真实。

You can give me nothing now, yet I love you so that you stand in the way of my loving anything else.

你现在不能给我什么，但我爱你，以至于你妨碍了我爱其他任何东西。

But I wanted you to stand there.

但我希望你站在那里。

You dead are so much better than anyone else alive."

你死了比任何活着的人都要好得多。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So you can really appreciate the depth and intensity of the attachment; despite two years' time, it clearly has not waned.

这样你才能真正体会到执着的深度和强度；尽管已经过去两年了，但它显然并没有减弱。

I'll read the final paragraph now.

我现在将阅读最后一段。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

"I know you'll assure me that I am foolish and that you want me to have full happiness and don't want to be in my way.

“我知道你会向我保证我很愚蠢，你希望我拥有充分的幸福并且不想妨碍我。

I bet you are surprised that I don't even have a girlfriend except you, Sweetheart, after two years.

我敢打赌你一定会感到惊讶，两年后我除了你之外连女朋友都没有，甜心。

But you can't help it, Darling, nor can I.

但你无能为力，亲爱的，我也无能为力。

I don't understand it for I've met many girls and very nice ones and I don't want to remain alone, but in two or three meetings, they all seem ashes.

我不明白，因为我见过很多女孩，而且都是非常好的女孩，我不想独自一人，但在两三次见面中，她们都显得灰飞烟灭。

You only are left to me.

你就只剩下我一个人了。

You are real.

你是真实的。

My darling wife, I do adore you.

我亲爱的妻子，我真的很爱你。

I love my wife.

我爱我的妻子。

My wife is dead.

我的妻子死了。

Rich.

富有的。

P.S., please excuse my not mailing this, but I don't know your new address."

P.S.，请原谅我没有邮寄这个，但我不知道你的新地址。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So there's a lot contained in this letter.

所以这封信里包含了很多内容。

We could parse it line by line, but I think it's fair to say that clearly there's an immense attachment that's been maintained.

我们可以逐行解析它，但我认为可以公平地说，显然存在着巨大的依恋。

So that's that dimension of closeness of attachment.

这就是依恋的紧密程度。

Clearly, there's an understanding that she's dead.

显然，大家都知道她已经死了。

In fact, the last line of this love letter is "My wife is dead," right?

事实上，这封情书的最后一行是“我的妻子死了”，对吗？

He now moves her into the third person, in fact, in that final line.

事实上，他现在把她换成了第三人称，也就是最后一行。

So he understands this, and yet he maintains the attachment.

所以他明白这一点，但他仍然执着。

The very last portion of the letter, the P.S., the postscript, "I don't know your new address," right?

信的最后一部分，附言，附言，“我不知道你的新地址”，对吗？

Somewhat humorous in the typical vein of a Feynman writing or speech.

有点幽默，符合费曼写作或演讲的典型风格。

He always had an intensely amusing and playful sense of humor, and yet there's something really contained in this.

他总是有一种非常有趣和顽皮的幽默感，但其中确实包含着一些东西。

I don't think we're reading into this too much in that he doesn't know where to find her.

我不认为我们对此有过多的解读，因为他不知道在哪里可以找到她。

He feels her as very real, and yet he doesn't know where to find her.

他觉得她很真实，但他不知道在哪里可以找到她。

He doesn't know her address.

他不知道她的地址。

He obviously knows she's dead, so there's nowhere to mail it to.

他显然知道她死了，所以无处可寄。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The reason I shared this letter with you as opposed to one of the almost infinite number of other letters that have been written by poets and authors and scientists and everyday people is that it really encapsulates all three dimensions of attachment and grief.

我之所以与你们分享这封信，而不是诗人、作家、科学家和普通人写的几乎无数的其他信件，是因为它真正概括了依恋和悲伤的所有三个维度。

These notions of space, where is something or somebody?

这些空间概念，某物或某人在哪里？

Time, this dimension of how long would it take me to reach them or for them to reach me?

时间，这个维度，我需要多长时间才能到达他们或者他们到达我？

What would it take in terms of time to be reunited?

重新团聚需要多长时间？

Then that last dimension of closeness.

然后是最后一个维度的亲密感。

The letter beautifully illustrates the fact that in grief, we maintain that sense of closeness, and yet we have to uncouple it from these other two dimensions, as we're referring to space and time.

这封信完美地说明了这样一个事实：在悲伤中，我们保持着那种亲密感，但我们必须将其与其他两个维度（因为我们指的是空间和时间）脱钩。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So with this current understanding in mind, a few things start to become obvious and entirely normal to us, in the best and most healthy sense of the word normal.

因此，有了目前的理解，有些事情开始变得明显，对我们来说完全正常，从正常这个词的最佳和最健康的意义上来说。

For instance, if you've lost somebody or an animal or even a thing that was vitally important to you, it should make perfect sense to you as to why you keep looking for that person.

例如，如果你失去了某人或一只动物，甚至是一件对你来说至关重要的东西，你应该很清楚为什么你一直在寻找那个人。

I recall this in my own life.

我在自己的生活中回忆起这一点。

I `had the unfortunate circumstance of ...

我遇到了不幸的情况......

my graduate advisor, who I was very close with, died quite young of breast cancer.

我与我关系非常密切的研究生导师在很年轻的时候就因乳腺癌去世了。

Her daughter, she actually has two daughters, kept her cellphone and would occasionally call me.

她的女儿，其实她有两个女儿，她的手机一直留着，偶尔也会给我打电话。

I had a quite close relationship to their family.

我和他们的家人关系非常密切。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

When it would come in, the number would pop up on my phone of not the daughter, but the name that showed up was of my graduate advisor.

当它进来时，我的手机上会弹出这个号码，不是女儿的号码，而是显示我研究生导师的名字。

So for years after she died, my initial impulse when the phone would ring was, "Oh my goodness, she's calling." It was a reflexive excitement because I truly always enjoyed hearing from her.

因此，在她去世后的几年里，当电话响起时，我的第一反应就是：“天哪，她打电话来了。”这是一种反射性的兴奋，因为我真的很喜欢听到她的消息。

She was a wonderful, incredibly wonderful person, I should say.

我应该说，她是一个非常棒的人。

Similarly, when somebody passes away, we will find ourselves looking into a room expecting to see them there or expecting them to knock on the door any moment or to call on Sunday morning as it were.

同样，当有人去世时，我们会发现自己正在走进一个房间，期待在那里见到他们，或者期待他们随时敲门，或者就像周日早上打电话一样。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Those expectations, those predictions that the brain is making, are entirely normal because they are based on that deep catalog of episodic memory that you maintain about that person.

大脑做出的那些期望、那些预测是完全正常的，因为它们基于你对那个人维持的深层情景记忆目录。

Again, the depth and richness of that catalog scaling, of course, in direct relation to how close you were with that person, right?

再说一遍，目录规模的深度和丰富性当然与您与那个人的亲密程度直接相关，对吗？

Closer to somebody means more information about them.

离某人更近意味着更多关于他们的信息。

More information about them means your brain has a lot of implicit unconscious notions of when and where and how they show up.

有关它们的更多信息意味着您的大脑对它们何时、何地以及如何出现有很多隐含的无意识概念。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So the fact that your brain and, indeed, sometimes your body reacts to the expectation that they'll be there is entirely normal.

因此，你的大脑，有时甚至是你的身体，对它们会在那里的预期做出反应，这是完全正常的。

It's simply an activation of this map that involves closeness, space and time.

这只是这张地图的激活，涉及到亲密性、空间和时间。

Not surprisingly then, the reordering of that map that's required in order to move through the grieving process is going to involve some remapping.

毫不奇怪，为了度过悲伤的过程所需的地图重新排序将涉及一些重新映射。

You, as the person grieving, have the opportunity to ask which node, as it's called, which element or dimension within that map are you going to focus on.

作为悲伤的人，您有机会询问您将关注该地图中的哪个节点（即所谓的）哪个元素或维度。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Some people really try hard to disengage with and remap their sense of emotional closeness to the person, that is it's so unbelievably overwhelming to them that the person is no longer accessible that they try and change their ideas about how close they really were.

有些人真的很努力地想要脱离并重新映射他们与这个人的情感亲密感，这对他们来说是如此令人难以置信的压倒性的，以至于这个人不再是可以接近的，以至于他们试图改变他们对他们真正的亲密程度的想法。

They try and change their emotional attachment to the person after they've died.

他们在死后尝试改变对人的情感依恋。

Clearly in the example that I gave in the Feynman letter, that's not the case.

显然，在我在费曼信中给出的例子中，情况并非如此。

The attachment seems indeed quite fixed and not going anywhere.

该附件似乎确实非常固定，不会去任何地方。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Psychologists and neuroscientists generally agree that the best way to approach moving through grief is actually to remap these dimensions while maintaining the close sense of attachment to the person by not in any way trying to undermine the intensity of the attachment or how important it was to you.

心理学家和神经科学家普遍认为，摆脱悲伤的最佳方法实际上是重新映射这些维度，同时保持与人的密切依恋感，不要以任何方式试图削弱依恋的强度或它对你的重要性。

So we'll now talk about how that process works and the different entry points, as they're called, to engaging in that process.

因此，我们现在将讨论该流程如何运作以及参与该流程的不同切入点（即所谓的切入点）。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So one straightforward way to think about this state of mind and body that we call grief is that the idea that someone or an animal or a thing simply does not exist anymore is not something that the brain can easily conceptualize.

因此，思考这种我们称之为悲伤的身心状态的一种直接方法是，大脑无法轻易地概念化某人、动物或事物根本不存在的想法。

The reason for that is that we, as beings that have a brain, and a brain as an organ that makes predictions tends to rely more on experience than knowledge.

原因是，我们作为有大脑的生物，而大脑作为做出预测的器官，往往更多地依赖于经验而不是知识。

In other words, the knowledge that someone or an animal or a thing is gone, that it doesn't exist, at least not in the dimensionality that we were accustomed to relating to them in, is something that we can understand logically, but that emotionally is very hard to undo and from a memory perspective is very hard to undo.

换句话说，知道某人、一只动物或一件事已经消失，它不存在，至少在我们习惯于与他们联系的维度中不存在，这是我们可以从逻辑上理解的东西，但在情感上很难撤销，从记忆的角度来看也很难撤销。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So it's not just that we are in a state of emotional disbelief, it's that we have neurons, literally nerve cells and neural circuits, connections between nerve cells that are dedicated to this vast implicit knowledge of all the things we know about that person, animal or thing.

所以，这不仅仅是我们处于一种情感上的怀疑状态，而是我们有神经元，字面意思是神经细胞和神经回路，神经细胞之间的连接致力于我们所知道的关于那个人、动物或事物的所有事情的巨大隐性知识。

Just because they are no longer in the dimensionality, meaning in the configuration, alive or present in our life, that they were before, doesn't eliminate those memories.

仅仅因为它们不再处于以前的维度，即不再存在于我们的生活中，也就是说不再存在于我们的生活中，并不能消除这些记忆。

Those memories persist.

那些记忆依然存在。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So anytime we call to mind the person's name, or we call to mind things that remind us of them, or we suddenly feel the desire to engage with them, the memories, those episodic implicit memories, as they're called, all that menu and library of knowledge slams us straight in the face and pushes us into a mode of wanting to act in a way that's consistent with them still being here in the way that all that knowledge told us they were when we acquired it.

因此，每当我们想起那个人的名字，或者想起那些让我们想起他们的事情，或者我们突然感到想要与他们接触时，这些记忆，那些所谓的情景性隐性记忆，所有这些菜单和知识库都会直接打在我们脸上，并迫使我们进入一种想要以一种与他们仍然存在的方式一致的方式行事，就像所有知识告诉我们的那样，他们在我们获得它时的方式。

That's a very long-winded way of saying that there's nothing wrong about the emotional state when we are in a state of grief.

这是一种非常冗长的说法，表明当我们处于悲伤状态时，情绪状态没有任何问题。

In fact, quite the opposite.

事实上，恰恰相反。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But there is something wrong about the memories because the memories are based on our prior knowledge of them and those memories actually do not apply to our current knowledge of them.

但这些记忆是有问题的，因为这些记忆是基于我们先前对它们的了解，而这些记忆实际上并不适用于我们当前对它们的了解。

Again, even though our brain is a prediction machine and it's a very good one, it's not perfect.

再说一次，尽管我们的大脑是一台预测机器，而且它非常好，但它并不完美。

In fact, it's far from perfect.

事实上，它远非完美。

So really, moving through grief is a process of understanding how relationships are mapped in the brain, space, time and closeness — also called attachment — understanding those three dimensions, understanding that they are closely linked, and then understanding that simply the knowledge that somebody or something or an animal isn't accessible to us does not allow us to discard of all the knowledge that we have.

所以，实际上，度过悲伤是一个理解关系如何在大脑、空间、时间和亲密关系（也称为依恋）中映射的过程，理解这三个维度，理解它们是紧密相连的，然后理解，仅仅知道某人、某物或动物是我们无法接触到的，并不会让我们放弃我们所拥有的所有知识。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

As a consequence, our brain is constantly generating expectations of how to access them, even if we know that's completely irrational.

因此，我们的大脑不断地产生如何访问它们的期望，即使我们知道这是完全不合理的。

Now, this should, I would hope, assist you in moving through grief.

现在，我希望这可以帮助您走出悲伤。

It's not a tool of the sort of like a switch that you can flip and suddenly not feel grief, but it does point to a specific set of mechanisms or a specific set of steps that you can engage in order to start to move through the grieving process in the most adaptive and effective way, and in a way that still holds in mind your close attachment to the person.

它不是一种像开关那样的工具，你可以扳动开关，突然不再感到悲伤，但它确实指出了一组特定的机制或一组特定的步骤，你可以参与这些机制或步骤，以便开始以最适应性和最有效的方式度过悲伤的过程，并且以一种仍然牢记你对这个人的密切依恋的方式。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So let's talk about some of the tools for adaptively moving through grief.

那么让我们来谈谈一些适应性地度过悲伤的工具。

These are tools gleaned from the research psychology, the clinical psychology, and the neuroscience literature.

这些是从研究心理学、临床心理学和神经科学文献中收集的工具。

So I've synthesized my understanding of those three literatures to provide the tools that I'm about to describe.

因此，我综合了我对这三篇文献的理解，以提供我将要描述的工具。

The first one involves the acknowledgement and really the understanding that you don't want to disengage or dismantle your real attachment to someone, an animal or a thing.

第一个涉及承认并真正理解你不想脱离或消除你对某人、动物或事物的真正依恋。

That's a real thing, and there is actually no adaptive reason to try and persuade yourself or numb yourself or somehow avoid the thinking of just how much they meant to you.

这是真实的事情，实际上没有适应性的理由去尝试说服自己或麻木自己或以某种方式避免思考他们对你有多重要。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What is important, however, is that you make some effort to shift your mindset and your understanding of that person in a way that holds in mind that, yes indeed, the attachment is very real, and in some cases is very, very intense, but is now going to be uncoupled from the other two dimensions of the map, namely space and time.

然而，重要的是，你要努力改变你的心态和对那个人的理解，记住，是的，这种依恋是非常真实的，在某些情况下非常非常强烈，但现在将与地图的其他两个维度，即空间和时间脱钩。

So again, just to make absolutely clear, there's no reason to try and convince yourself that you weren't actually that close to this person or them to you.

再次强调一下，没有理由试图说服自己，你实际上与这个人或他们与你并不那么亲密。

There's no reason to try and reduce the intensity of that attachment.

没有理由尝试降低这种依恋的强度。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

To the contrary, you want to anchor yourself to that attachment, but you want to make sure that your thoughts about the person and your feelings about the person are not oriented toward, or in reference to, I should say, that map, that deep catalog of memories that you had.

相反，你想把自己锚定在那种依恋上，但你想确保你对这个人的想法和你对这个人的感受不是面向的，或者我应该说，不是参考那张地图，你拥有的那份深刻的记忆目录。

Now, this is not simply a fancy way of saying don't live in the past.

现在，这不仅仅是一种表达“不要活在过去”的奇特说法。

This is saying you need to maintain your sense of attachment, but you need to start making predictions and understanding about how you're going to engage with that attachment, how you're going to feel those things without the expectation that things that once happen before are going to happen again.

这就是说，你需要保持你的依恋感，但你需要开始做出预测并理解你将如何处理这种依恋，你将如何感受这些事情，而不是期望以前发生过的事情会再次发生。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So it's a complicated process, you can imagine, but you really want to hold and register two things at once.

所以这是一个复杂的过程，你可以想象，但你真的想同时保存和注册两件事。

It's sort of like spinning two plates at once, and therefore it's going to feel like effort.

这有点像同时旋转两个盘子，因此感觉很费力。

One way to do this is to set aside a dedicated period of time of maybe five or 10, maybe even as much as 30 minutes, or depending on your capacity, 30 to 45 minutes, in which you are going to feel deeply into your closeness and your attachment to that person, animal or thing.

一种方法是专门留出一段时间，可能是 5 到 10 分钟，甚至可能长达 30 分钟，或者根据你的能力，30 到 45 分钟，在这段时间里，你会深深地感受到你对那个人、动物或事物的亲密和依恋。

But you are consciously going to try and prevent yourself from thinking about a couple of categories of things.

但你会有意识地尝试阻止自己思考几类事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

First of all, you want to actively try and disengage from any attempt to engage in what's called counterfactual thinking, the "what ifs." "What if I had called them a day earlier?

首先，你要积极尝试并摆脱任何所谓的反事实思维，即“假设”的尝试。 “如果我早一天给他们打电话怎么办？

What if they had taken a different route home?

如果他们走不同的路线回家怎么办？

What if I had taken a different route home?" These counterfactual modes of thinking are an infinite landscape of possibility, and they are very closely tied to guilt.

如果我走不同的路线回家怎么办？”这些反事实的思维模式是无限可能的景观，并且它们与内疚密切相关。

Guilt is an interesting emotion.

内疚是一种有趣的情绪。

We should probably do an entire episode about guilt.

我们或许应该拍一整集关于内疚的内容。

But guilt, as defined by psychologists and neuroscientists, is actually a way of assigning ourselves more agency, more capability of controlling reality than actually exists.

但根据心理学家和神经科学家的定义，内疚实际上是一种给自己赋予比实际存在更多的能动性、更多的能力来控制现实的方式。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's a very slippery slope.

这是一个非常滑的斜坡。

I want to be clear, it's not the case that guilt is never an appropriate response, but in the context of grieving, guilt is very precarious because in thinking, "I could have done this," or, "if I had only done that," you are essentially exploring an infinite landscape of things that you can never refute.

我想澄清的是，并不是说内疚永远不是一个适当的反应，而是在悲伤的情况下，内疚是非常不稳定的，因为在思考“我本来可以这样做”或“如果我只这样做”时，你本质上是在探索一个你永远无法反驳的事物的无限景观。

You will never know that had you not gone down a different path or they had not taken a particular path in life that things would've turned out different, but you can't know that it would've worked as well, meaning you actually don't know that your what ifs are true, and you don't know that they're not true.

你永远不会知道，如果你没有走不同的道路，或者他们没有走特定的人生道路，事情会变得不同，但你无法知道它也会起作用，这意味着你实际上不知道你的假设是真的，你也不知道它们不是真的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So as an infinite space, it's a very precarious one, and it will not allow you to uncouple that intense emotional attachment that I'm telling you is actually vital to hold onto from that catalog of episodic memory that you've established.

因此，作为一个无限的空间，它是一个非常不稳定的空间，它不会让你解开那种强烈的情感依恋，我告诉你，这种依恋实际上对于保持你已经建立的情景记忆目录至关重要。

In fact, it's going to strengthen those bonds.

事实上，它将加强这些联系。

So in this dedicated five or 10 or 30, whatever period of time you can tolerate and maintain focus, the idea is to think about your attachment in a rich way and to perhaps even experience that in your brain and body.

因此，在这个专门的五个、十个或三十个时间段中，无论你能忍受并保持专注的时间段，我们的想法都是以丰富的方式思考你的依恋，甚至可能在你的大脑和身体中体验它。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I think if you're in a stage of grief, that actually will be fairly reflexive to do, but to try as much as possible to hold that grief in the present and to be connected to your immediate physical environment.

我认为，如果你正处于悲伤的阶段，这实际上是相当本能的，但要尽可能地尝试将悲伤留在当下，并与你眼前的物理环境联系起来。

So you want to orient yourself in current space and time rather than focus on memories or what you would've liked to see happen or the wish that they were still there, while at the same time thinking about the depth and richness of that attachment.

因此，你想要在当前的空间和时间中定位自己，而不是专注于记忆或你希望看到发生的事情或希望它们仍然存在，同时思考这种依恋的深度和丰富性。

This is obviously a tightrope walk, so to speak.

可以说，这显然是走钢丝。

It's an emotionally challenging and sometimes even will be experienced as a physically challenging tool or experience.

这是一种情感上的挑战，有时甚至会被视为一种身体上的挑战工具或体验。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But in our understanding of how attachments and grief are represented in the brain, this can be an immensely beneficial practice because it is the first step, and indeed it represents many of the steps in the voyage from the initial shock of loss to our ability to hold in mind somebody or an animal or a thing in a way that still allows us to feel the depth and fullness of connection to them without feeling the yearning, that reaching for the glass of water, that unfortunately will never be resolved.

但在我们对大脑中依恋和悲伤如何表达的理解中，这可能是一个非常有益的实践，因为它是第一步，实际上它代表了从最初的失落震惊到我们能够以某种方式记住某人、一只动物或一件事物的旅程中的许多步骤，这种方式仍然让我们能够感受到与他们的联系的深度和充分性，而不会感到渴望，即伸手去拿一杯水，不幸的是，这种渴望永远不会得到解决。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Keep in mind that as you embark on this process, it is entirely normal for your mind to flip into various states of expectation that they're suddenly going to be there.

请记住，当您开始这个过程时，您的思想会进入各种期望状态，认为它们会突然出现，这是完全正常的。

In fact, because of the closeness of these three dimensions in the map — space, time and attachment — it's entirely normal that when you start to think about your attachment to somebody or an animal or a thing, that you almost start to experience them as present in that environment.

事实上，由于地图上这三个维度的紧密性——空间、时间和依恋——当你开始思考你对某人、动物或事物的依恋时，你几乎开始体验到它们存在于那个环境中，这是完全正常的。

I'll share with you as somewhat bizarre, or it sounds bizarre to articulate out loud, but many of you perhaps will resonate with this.

我将与你们分享有点奇怪，或者大声说出来听起来很奇怪，但你们中的许多人可能会对此产生共鸣。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

For years after my graduate advisor died, I would get an experience of someone touching the back of my neck when I would think about her.

在我的研究生导师去世后的很多年里，当我想起她时，我都会有一种有人抚摸我脖子后面的感觉。

That was not an experience I ever had with her, right?

那不是我和她在一起的经历，对吗？

It was a professional relationship.

这是一种职业关系。

I don't ever recall her touching in the back of my neck or me touching the back of my neck in her presence, at least not on a regular basis.

我不记得她在我面前抚摸过我的脖子后面，或者我在她在场的情况下抚摸过我的脖子后面，至少不是经常这样。

So it was very perplexing to me.

所以这让我非常困惑。

Then I encountered this incredible literature on grief, which said the following, "Grief in many ways is like a phantom limb." For those of you that aren't familiar, many people who experience amputation of a limb, either through surgery or accident or otherwise, will feel in a very genuine way that the limb is still present, even though when they look for the limb, it's not there.

然后我遇到了关于悲伤的令人难以置信的文献，其中写道：“悲伤在很多方面就像幻肢。”对于那些不熟悉的人来说，许多经历过截肢的人，无论是通过手术、事故还是其他方式，都会以一种非常真实的方式感觉到肢体仍然存在，即使当他们寻找肢体时，它并不在那里。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So they can feel pain in limbs, they can feel the sensation of touch.

所以他们可以感觉到四肢的疼痛，他们可以感觉到触觉。

There's some famous experiments from the neurologist, and my former colleague at University of California San Diego, who goes by his last name, Ramachandran; some people just call him Rama.

神经学家和我在加州大学圣地亚哥分校的前同事（他的姓拉马钱德兰）做了一些著名的实验；有些人只是称他为罗摩。

He's an incredible scientist and has done a lot of really important work, in particular on phantom limb, among other things, and has done some beautiful experiments showing that people who have phantom limb pain or that are experiencing different sensations in their phantom limb, that can be very intrusive, much in the same way that expecting someone to walk through the door who you happen to know is deceased can be very intrusive.

他是一位令人难以置信的科学家，做了很多非常重要的工作，特别是在幻肢方面，除其他外，并且做了一些漂亮的实验，表明患有幻肢疼痛或在幻肢中经历不同感觉的人，这可能是非常侵入性的，就像期望某人走进你碰巧知道已经去世的门可能是非常侵入性的一样。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Ramachandran has done beautiful experiments showing that if you give people what's called a mirror box — this is a box in which you insert an intact limb and there are some mirrors that give you the visual impression that the other limb is still present, and you move the intact limb, and you get a mirror image of the nonexistent, but nonetheless, visual image of the phantom limb moving — that you can resolve some of the pain of a limb that feels otherwise cramped up.

拉马钱德兰做了一些精彩的实验，结果表明，如果你给人们一个所谓的镜盒——在这个盒子里你插入了一个完整的肢体，里面有一些镜子，给你视觉印象，认为另一条肢体仍然存在，然后你移动完整的肢体，你会得到一个不存在的镜像，但仍然是幻肢移动的视觉图像——你可以解决感觉痉挛的肢体的一些疼痛。

In other words, the visual perception can reverse some of these phantom sensations.

换句话说，视觉感知可以逆转其中一些幻觉。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In many ways, the phantom limb scenario and what I described about a sensation of being touched on the back of the neck, or this feeling that we have when we engage in the thinking and the emotions of our attachment to someone, an animal or a thing, is very much like a phantom limb, only it exists in the emotional space and it exists because it is reactivation of these maps about space, time and person.

在很多方面，幻肢场景以及我所描述的颈后被触摸的感觉，或者当我们进行思考和对某人、动物或事物的依恋的情感时所产生的这种感觉，非常像幻肢，只是它存在于情感空间中，它存在是因为它是关于空间、时间和人的这些地图的重新激活。

So if the process of moving through grief adaptively in a healthy way involves maintaining the attachment, but uncoupling that attachment from the space and time representation of that person, animal or thing that we had before, well then the question becomes, Where should we place our expectation of them, right?

因此，如果以健康的方式适应性地度过悲伤的过程涉及维持依恋，但将这种依恋与我们以前拥有的那个人、动物或事物的空间和时间表征脱钩，那么问题就变成了，我们应该把我们对它们的期望放在哪里，对吗？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, that of course, will vary from person to person.

当然，这会因人而异。

Some people with particular religious beliefs will indeed believe that the soul of the person, the molecules of the person, have been reordered and exist in some sort of either distributed domain, that they are in everything or they are in one location.

一些具有特定宗教信仰的人确实会相信人的灵魂、人的分子已经被重新排序并存在于某种分布式域中，它们存在于一切事物中，或者它们位于一个位置。

I'm not here to speak to that one way or the other.

我来这里并不是为了以某种方式谈论这个问题。

There's no good experiment I know either to prove or disprove that, nor would I want to.

据我所知，没有什么好的实验可以证明或反驳这一点，我也不想这么做。

It's not the job of science, frankly.

坦率地说，这不是科学的工作。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

However, allowing ourselves to place notions of where that person, animal or thing is in their current new configuration, whatever that might be, ashes to ashes, dust to dust; or that the person's soul comes out of their body, these are all the different variations that people hear, or some people think, "Well, it's just molecules, and they disintegrate and are reordered and come up as the plants and the trees." Again, a near infinite number of possibilities, and it depends a lot on personal belief.

然而，让我们自己去想象那个人、动物或事物在当前新形态中的位置，无论它是什么，尘归尘，尘归尘；或者人的灵魂从身体中出来，这些都是人们听到的不同变化，或者有些人认为，“嗯，这只是分子，它们分解并重新排序，然后以植物和树木的形式出现。”同样，可能性几乎是无限的，这在很大程度上取决于个人信仰。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It is however essential that no matter what you believe, that you have some firm representation of where that person, animal or thing is so that you can plug it into this map, this three-dimensional map of space, time and attachment.

然而，无论你相信什么，你都必须对那个人、动物或事物的位置有一些明确的表示，这样你就可以将其插入这张地图，这张空间、时间和依恋的三维地图中，这一点很重要。

The process of moving through grief can't simply be that we hold onto the attachment and we discard with any understanding of where they are in space and time.

度过悲伤的过程不能简单地是我们抓住依恋，然后在不了解它们在空间和时间上的位置的情况下抛弃它。

Actually, the letter that Feynman wrote to his deceased wife, Arline, again so beautifully and really poignantly illustrates the fact that he doesn't really know where to find her.

事实上，费曼写给已故妻子阿琳的信再次如此美丽而深刻地说明了一个事实：他真的不知道在哪里可以找到她。

On the one hand, he really understands that she's gone, and on the other hand, he understands that he still very much expects her to be there, that he would like to mail the letter.

一方面，他真的明白她已经走了，另一方面，他也明白，他还是很期待她在，他想把信寄出去。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But then of course, in this final somewhat humorous line, he doesn't know where to send the letter, he tells us.

但当然，在最后这句有点幽默的台词中，他告诉我们，他不知道该把信寄到哪里。

What's very clear and I think is very healthy is the fact that the emotional bond is still there, that that is maintained.

非常清楚且我认为非常健康的事实是，情感纽带仍然存在，并且得以维持。

So this tool, if you will, of dedicated blocks of time for really spending some effort, and it is indeed effort, to access the emotional connection while starting to uncouple the other nodes of the map, as it were, is something that is hard.

因此，如果你愿意的话，这个工具需要专门花费一些时间来真正花费一些努力，而且确实是努力，在开始解开地图的其他节点的同时访问情感联系，可以说是很难的。

You should expect it to be hard.

你应该预料到这会很困难。

But in terms of the options one has in order to deal with grief, it is indeed the most adaptive way to go about it.

但就人们应对悲伤的选择而言，这确实是最具适应性的方式。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You're not trying to avoid thinking about it.

你并没有试图回避去思考它。

You're not engaging in this counterfactual thinking, the what if, what if, what if.

你不会陷入这种反事实的思维，“如果，如果，如果”。

You're not drowning it out with substances or delusion or with other ways of distracting yourself.

你不会用物质、妄想或其他分散自己注意力的方式来淹没它。

So in that sense, it is truly adaptive.

所以从这个意义上说，它是真正具有适应性的。

Now, of course, I don't want to imply that I'm a clinical psychologist.

当然，现在我不想暗示我是一名临床心理学家。

I'm certainly not.

我当然不是。

There is absolutely a place for working with a trained professional to move through grief, especially these situations, these one in 10 people who deal with what's called complicated grief or very prolonged grief.

绝对有一个地方可以与训练有素的专业人员一起度过悲伤，尤其是在这些情况下，十分之一的人正在处理所谓的复杂悲伤或长期悲伤。

Those are somewhat different things, but in general point to the fact that there are people who have an exceptionally hard time moving through grief.

这些事情有些不同，但总的来说都表明了这样一个事实：有些人在经历悲伤时经历了异常艰难的时期。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We'll talk about who those people are and ways to move through them with or without a professional to assist you.

我们将讨论这些人是谁，以及在有或没有专业人士帮助的情况下解决这些问题的方法。

But nonetheless, we're starting to understand on the basis of neuroscience what some of the more adaptive and functional ways of moving through grief are.

但尽管如此，我们开始在神经科学的基础上了解一些更具适应性和功能性的度过悲伤的方法是什么。

In order to really understand how a tool of the sort that we're describing ought to work and what it's designed to accomplish at a mechanistic level, I'd like to teach you about a very important aspect of your brain function that has everything to do with grief and the process of moving through grief, but has a lot to do with other aspects of our life experience as well.

为了真正理解我们所描述的这种工具应该如何工作以及它在机械层面上的设计目的，我想教你大脑功能的一个非常重要的方面，它与悲伤和度过悲伤的过程密切相关，但也与我们生活经历的其他方面有很大关系。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Some of you are probably familiar with a brain area called the hippocampus.

你们中的一些人可能熟悉称为海马体的大脑区域。

The hippocampus is a structure that's involved in the formation of new memories, but not the maintenance of memories.

海马体是一个参与新记忆形成的结构，但不参与记忆的维持。

I discussed the hippocampus in detail in our episode on memory and our episode with our guest Dr. Wendy Suzuki from New York University, an expert on learning and memory.

我在关于记忆的节目以及与来自纽约大学的学习和记忆专家温迪铃木博士的节目中详细讨论了海马体。

During those two discussions, I did not, however, touch into what the different cell types are in the hippocampus and the different roles they perform.

然而，在这两次讨论中，我没有触及海马体中的不同细胞类型以及它们所扮演的不同角色。

It turns out that there are indeed different cell types in the hippocampus, and they perform very different roles that are absolutely central to the grief process.

事实证明，海马体中确实存在不同的细胞类型，它们发挥着非常不同的作用，而这些作用对于悲伤过程来说绝对是核心。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We have cells in our hippocampus, meaning you have cells in your hippocampus — these cells are neurons, nerve cells — that fire anytime, and when we say fire, I should just remind you, I mean have electrical activity anytime that we enter a particular familiar location.

我们的海马体中有细胞，这意味着你的海马体中有细胞 - 这些细胞是神经元，神经细胞 - 随时都会放电，当我们说火时，我应该提醒你，我的意思是我们进入特定熟悉位置的任何时候都有电活动。

So for instance, think about your bedroom and think about where the bed is.

例如，想想你的卧室，想想床在哪里。

As you're doing that, these so-called place cells are firing, not necessarily to represent that it's a bed at that location, but to represent the location itself.

当你这样做时，这些所谓的位置细胞会放电，不一定代表该位置是一张床，而是代表该位置本身。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We also have neurons in our hippocampus, and elsewhere in our brain, I should say, that represent proximity.

我应该说，我们的海马体和大脑其他地方也有代表接近度的神经元。

So, for instance, if you were to wake up in the middle of the night and walk into the kitchen.

举例来说，如果您在半夜醒来并走进厨房。

and it's somewhat dark.

而且有点暗。

and you orient toward the sink to get yourself a glass of water or to the refrigerator to get yourself something to drink or to eat, as you get close to the sink or the refrigerator, there are neurons in your hippocampus that are going to start engaging electrical activity because you are in the mirror expected proximity of the sink or refrigerator and where they are, hence the word expected.

当你靠近水槽或冰箱时，你的海马体中的神经元将开始参与电活动，因为镜子中的你预计会接近水槽或冰箱以及它们所在的位置，因此出现了“预期”这个词。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, that all seems fine and good.

现在，一切看起来都很好。

You've got neurons that represent where things are, and sort of goes without saying that those same neurons map to our emotional attachments.

你有代表事物所在位置的神经元，不用说，这些神经元也映射到我们的情感依恋。

We generally know where to find our loved ones, even if they don't live with us, we generally know what city they're in.

我们通常知道在哪里可以找到我们所爱的人，即使他们不住在我们身边，我们通常也知道他们在哪个城市。

Even if they're traveling, we generally have a sense ...

即使他们在旅行，我们通常也会有一种感觉......

PART 1 OF 3 ENDS Andrew Huberman:

第 1 部分（共 3 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：

We generally know what city they're in.

我们通常知道他们在哪个城市。

Even if they're traveling, we generally have a sense of where they're traveling or the general area in which they're traveling.

即使他们在旅行，我们通常也知道他们正在旅行的地点或他们正在旅行的大致区域。

Place cells and proximity cells are involved in that kind of mapping and representations as well.

位置细胞和邻近细胞也参与这种映射和表示。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, there's a third kind of cell that's particularly important for the sort of tool that we were talking about earlier, that tool of holding on to the emotional attachment to somebody and yet trying to deliberately remap our understanding of where they are in space and time.

现在，有第三种细胞对于我们之前讨论的那种工具特别重要，这种工具可以保持对某人的情感依恋，但又试图故意重新映射我们对他们在空间和时间上的位置的理解。

That has to do with a category of cells called trace cells.

这与一类称为微量细胞的细胞有关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Trace cells were discovered by a number of laboratories.

许多实验室发现了微量细胞。

I think the most renowned of those is the Moser laboratory.

我认为其中最著名的是莫泽实验室。

The Mosers are a couple ...

莫瑟夫妇是一对...

actually they were a couple.

实际上他们是一对。

They're now, I think, amicably separated or divorced.

我认为他们现在已经友好分居或离婚了。

That's not what this episode's about.

这不是本集的主题。

If I have that wrong, forgive me, Edvard and Britt, are their names.

如果我错了，请原谅我，爱德华和布里特，是他们的名字。

Their relationship isn't what's important, except what is important is the work that they did together in one form or another, which was very important work establishing this category of cells in the, not just in the hippocampus, but in an area of the brain called the entorhinal cortex, that act as a sort of coordinate system to orient us in space and time.

它们之间的关系并不重要，重要的是它们以某种形式一起完成的工作，这是非常重要的工作，不仅在海马体中，而且在大脑中称为内嗅皮层的区域中建立了此类细胞，它充当了一种坐标系，为我们在空间和时间上定位。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Trace cells are activated when we expect something to be at a given location but it's not there.

当我们期望某个特定位置有某物但它并不存在时，追踪细胞就会被激活。

Experiments done in their laboratory and in other laboratories have shown that, for instance, if you give a rodent — or frankly, a person, an object that always resides at the same location, and we reach to it in order to access it ...

在他们的实验室和其他实验室进行的实验表明，例如，如果你给一只啮齿动物——或者坦率地说，一个人，一个总是位于同一位置的物体，而我们伸手去接触它......

let's say where your coffee maker is in the morning.

假设早上你的咖啡机在哪里。

I do a pour-over coffee.

我做手冲咖啡。

If I'm drinking coffee or maté, I'll do a pour-over.

如果我喝咖啡或马黛茶，我会手冲咖啡。

It's always more or less in the same location, and so there are place cells and proximity cells that relate to my being able to find that pour-over coffee cone thing.

它总是或多或少地在同一个位置，所以位置细胞和邻近细胞与我能够找到那个手冲咖啡筒的东西有关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

However, if I were to go to that location and it wasn't there, the trace cells, these neurons in my hippocampus and entorhinal cortex and elsewhere — because again, these cells are connected by way of circuitry, by way of connections — those trace cells would fire.

然而，如果我要去那个位置，而它不在那里，那么微量细胞、我的海马体、内嗅皮层和其他地方的这些神经元——因为这些细胞再次通过电路、连接的方式连接起来——这些微量细胞就会放电。

We could even call it a trace circuit.

我们甚至可以将其称为跟踪电路。

It's a circuit that has an expectation that something will be in a location, but when something is not at that location, this circuit becomes active.

这是一个预期某物将位于某个位置的电路​​，但是当某物不在该位置时，该电路就会激活。

This is important because what we're talking about here is a neural circuit and a set of neurons that are responsible not for the presence of something, but the absence of something.

这很重要，因为我们在这里讨论的是一个神经回路和一组神经元，它们不负责某物的存在，而是负责某物的不存在。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We have every reason to believe based on neuroimaging studies and studies in animal models that trace cells become very active in the immediate stage after the loss of a loved one.

根据神经影像学研究和动物模型研究，我们有充分的理由相信，微量细胞在失去亲人后的第一阶段变得非常活跃。

That the brain and our maps of the person, place, or thing that we know cognitively, we understand, we even believe they are gone, they are not accessible for whatever reason, death or otherwise — and yet we have neurons that are firing to reveal that absence to us.

大脑和我们认知上认识的人、地点或事物的地图，我们理解，我们甚至相信它们已经消失了，无论出于何种原因，死亡或其他原因，它们都无法访问——但我们有神经元在放电，向我们揭示这种缺失。

These neurons are closely associated with neurons that tell us where things ought to be.

这些神经元与告诉我们事物应该在哪里的神经元密切相关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So if you feel the expectation, or you sense that somebody should walk through the door any moment or call at any moment or be next to you when you wake up, and yet you cognitively understand that they won't, that there's no real reason why they should because they are indeed gone, you are not crazy.

因此，如果你感受到这种期待，或者你感觉到有人应该随时走进门，或者随时打电话，或者当你醒来时在你身边，但你在认知上明白他们不会，没有真正的理由他们应该这样做，因为他们确实已经走了，你并没有疯。

In fact, it's simply a reflection of the normal functioning of these trace cells and trace circuits.

事实上，这只是这些微量单元和微量电路正常功能的反映。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now I'd like to consider why two people, both who are intensely attached to a person that is no longer there, can experience the grief of the loss of that person in such different ways.

现在我想思考一下，为什么两个人，都对一个已经不在的人有着强烈的依恋，却能以如此不同的方式体验失去那个人的悲伤。

This is often observed.

人们经常观察到这一点。

You can have, God forbid, incredibly sadly, in cases where a child is lost, where both parents are grieving intensely, but one seems to feel it at an emotional depth and level that seems distinct from the other.

上帝保佑，在孩子失踪的情况下，父母双方都极度悲伤，但其中一个人的情感深度和水平似乎与另一个人不同，你可能会感到难以置信的悲伤。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, of course, keep in mind that we never really know how other people are feeling.

当然，请记住，我们永远不会真正了解其他人的感受。

This is something actually that was raised in the episode where I interviewed a psychiatrist and researcher colleague of mine from Stanford, Karl Deisseroth, a psychiatrist.

这实际上是在我采访斯坦福大学的一位精神病学家和研究员同事卡尔·代瑟罗斯（Karl Deisseroth）的一集中提出的，他是一位精神病学家。

I heard him say once that we really don't know how other people feel.

我曾听他说过，我们真的不知道别人的感受。

In fact, a lot of the times we don't even really know how we feel, or at least describing that is quite challenging with language often.

事实上，很多时候我们甚至不知道自己的感受如何，或者至少用语言来描述这种感受常常是相当具有挑战性的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Indeed, that is the case.

确实如此。

We don't really know how other people feel.

我们真的不知道其他人的感受如何。

There's no clear way of knowing that the expression someone else has, or whether or not they're crying or not, or their body language really represents how they feel inside, so that is important to keep in mind.

没有明确的方法可以知道别人的表情，或者他们是否在哭泣，或者他们的肢体语言是否真正代表了他们内心的感受，所以记住这一点很重要。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Nonetheless, there does seem to be a sort of a split among people, and, indeed, among animals as well, even within a species, in terms of how intensely they feel the yearning aspect of grief.

尽管如此，人类之间似乎确实存在某种分歧，事实上，动物之间也是如此，甚至在一个物种内部，就人们对悲伤的渴望的感受有多强烈而言。

It appears based on a number of different lines of evidence that that relates to this molecule that some of you have probably heard of, which is oxytocin.

它的出现是基于许多不同的证据，表明这与你们中的一些人可能听说过的这种分子有关，即催产素。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Oxytocin is a hormone/peptide — a peptide just means a protein, generally a small protein, and a hormone is generally something that functions at numerous locations in the body to impact numerous organs and areas of the brain.

催产素是一种激素/肽——肽只是指一种蛋白质，通常是一种小蛋白质，而激素通常是在身体的许多部位发挥作用，影响大脑的许多器官和区域的东西。

A peptide can be a hormone and a hormone can be a peptide.

肽可以是激素，激素也可以是肽。

They're not mutually exclusive.

它们并不相互排斥。

Oxytocin has a variety of roles in the brain and body.

催产素在大脑和身体中具有多种作用。

It's involved in milk letdown during lactation; it's involved in pair bonding, both in males and females; it's involved in bonding of parent to child and, indeed, between romantic partners, et cetera, et cetera.

它与哺乳期间的乳汁分泌有关；它与男性和女性的配对关系有关；它涉及父母与孩子之间的联系，事实上，也涉及浪漫伴侣之间的联系，等等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Let's talk about some of the animal models that inform us about the potential roles of oxytocin in the grieving process.

让我们来谈谈一些动物模型，它们告诉我们催产素在悲伤过程中的潜在作用。

There's a species of animal called the prairie vole, and believe it or not, the prairie vole has been studied fairly extensively by neuroscience and psychology researchers.

有一种动物叫做草原田鼠，不管你信不信，神经科学和心理学研究人员已经对草原田鼠进行了相当广泛的研究。

In fact, our former Director of the National Institutes of Mental Health, Tom Insel, his laboratory focused quite heavily on prairie voles.

事实上，我们的国家心理健康研究所前所长汤姆·英塞尔（Tom Insel）的实验室非常关注草原田鼠。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Prairie voles are one species of animal.

草原田鼠是动物的一种。

But depending on where they live, you find that some prairie voles are monogamous; that is, they mate with the same prairie vole for life, they raise litters of little prairie voles for life.

但根据它们生活的地方，你会发现一些草原田鼠是一夫一妻制的；也就是说，它们与同一只草原田鼠终生交配，终生养育一窝小草原田鼠。

Other prairie voles, generally that live in different locations in the wild, are nonmonogamous, sometimes called polygamous.

其他草原田鼠通常生活在野外的不同地点，是非一夫一妻制的，有时称为一夫多妻制。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The neurochemical and circuit basis for this monogamy versus nonmonogamy are quite interesting.

这种一夫一妻制与非一夫一妻制的神经化学和回路基础非常有趣。

However, in the context of grief and attachment, the prairie voles have taught us a lot.

然而，在悲伤和依恋的背景下，草原田鼠教会了我们很多东西。

They've taught us a lot through the following experiment.

他们通过以下实验教会了我们很多东西。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You take two prairie voles that are coupled up, so these would be monogamous prairie voles that have established a couple-dom, I guess you would call that a prairie vole-dom anyway.

你拿两只配对的草原田鼠，所以这些将是一夫一妻制的草原田鼠，它们已经建立了一个夫妻领地，我想你无论如何都会称其为草原田鼠领地。

Put them in a cage together.

将它们一起关在笼子里。

They mate together, they raise young together, and then you separate them.

它们一起交配，一起抚养幼崽，然后你把它们分开。

You literally put a physical barrier between the two of them, and you can evaluate how strongly one prairie vole will work to get access to the other prairie vole.

实际上，您在两者之间设置了物理屏障，然后您可以评估一只草原田鼠为接近另一只草原田鼠而付出的努力有多大。

This is sort of the Romeo and Juliet of prairie vole experiments.

这有点像草原田鼠实验中的罗密欧与朱丽叶。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What you observe is that the monogamous prairie voles will work very hard to get back to their mate, to get access to their mate.

你观察到的是，一夫一妻制的草原田鼠会非常努力地回到他们的配偶身边，接近他们的配偶。

They will lever press, they'll even walk across a metal plate that they get an electrical shock.

他们会按下杠杆，甚至会走过金属板而受到电击。

They'll work very, very hard.

他们会非常非常努力地工作。

They will cross rivers and valleys, if you will.

如果你愿意的话，他们将穿越河流和山谷。

In the experimental context, that is.

在实验环境中，就是这样。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The polygamous prairie voles — and again, we don't know if they're polyamorous.

一夫多妻制的草原田鼠——再说一次，我们不知道它们是否是一夫多妻制的。

We don't know what they feel, right?

我们不知道他们的感受，对吗？

We don't know if they're in love or if they're motivated simply for other things.

我们不知道他们是否相爱，或者他们是否只是因为其他事情而受到激励。

But the nonmonogamous prairie voles will not work as hard to access a prairie vole partner.

但非一夫一妻制的草原田鼠不会那么努力地接近草原田鼠伴侣。

Now, you could argue that's because they expect that there will be other prairie vole partners, but even if they've never experienced another prairie vole partner, they won't work quite as hard to get back in connection with this other prairie vole, to mate or otherwise.

现在，你可能会说，这是因为它们期望会有其他草原田鼠伴侣，但即使它们从未经历过另一个草原田鼠伴侣，它们也不会那么努力地与其他草原田鼠建立联系，进行交配或其他活动。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This turns out to be interesting when you start to explore the patterns of so-called oxytocin receptors in the brain.

当你开始探索大脑中所谓的催产素受体的模式时，这会变得很有趣。

To make a long story short and to also bridge to the human literature, it turns out that the monogamous prairie voles have far more oxytocin receptors in this brain area that I mentioned earlier, the nucleus accumbens.

长话短说，也为了与人类文献联系起来，事实证明，一夫一妻制的草原田鼠在我之前提到的伏隔核大脑区域有更多的催产素受体。

Again, to remind you, the nucleus accumbens is the brain area associated with motivation, craving, and pursuit.

再次提醒您，伏隔核是与动机、渴望和追求相关的大脑区域。

So it's as if the monogamous prairie voles have a capacity to link the attachment circuitry and the molecules of attachment — in this case, oxytocin — to reward pathways and to motivational pathways.

因此，一夫一妻制的草原田鼠似乎有能力将附着电路和附着分子（在本例中为催产素）连接起来，以奖励途径和动机途径。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Polygamous, or we should say nonmonogamous prairie voles, do as well.

一夫多妻制，或者我们应该说非一夫一妻制的草原田鼠，也是如此。

However, they have less oxytocin receptors.

然而，它们的催产素受体较少。

So in other words, nonmonogamous prairie voles seem to have less yearning for attachment overall, at least to a single individual prairie vole.

换句话说，非一夫一妻制的草原田鼠似乎对整体依恋的渴望较少，至少对单个草原田鼠来说是如此。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

When we look at the human literature in terms of oxytocin receptor expression and brain imaging experiments and so on, what you find is the same.

当我们从催产素受体表达和脑成像实验等方面查看人类文献时，您发现的是相同的。

That people that experience intense grief and a deep yearning and a motivation to reconnect with the person, animal, or thing that is lost in many cases have heightened levels of oxytocin, specifically — or I should say oxytocin receptors, to be exact — specifically within the brain regions associated with craving and pursuit.

那些经历过强烈悲伤和深深的渴望以及与失去的人、动物或事物重新建立联系的动机的人，在许多情况下，催产素的水平会升高，特别是在与渴望和追求相关的大脑区域——或者我应该说催产素受体，准确地说。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So for those of you that find yourself in this kind of stuck mode, this persistence of trying to reach into the past or wishful thinking, this counterfactual thinking, "If only, if only, if only," you don't necessarily want to pathologize that thinking.

因此，对于那些发现自己陷入这种困境的人来说，这种坚持试图触及过去或一厢情愿的想法，这种反事实的思维，“如果只是，如果只是，如果只是”，你不一定想让这种想法病态化。

First of all, we should acknowledge that it's not necessarily adaptive.

首先，我们应该承认它不一定是适应性的。

In fact, in the complete loss of somebody, or if somebody says they don't want anything to do with you ever again, by all means, if that's expressed clearly, then you need to accept that reality.

事实上，在完全失去某人的情况下，或者如果有人说他们不想再与你有任何关系，无论如何，如果明确表达了这一点，那么你需要接受这个现实。

But the yearning, the desire and the impulsivity, that kind of leaning in and at an almost reflexive way, to try and access that person again, to text them, to want to hear from them, could — and I have to highlight could — reflect the fact that you just so happen to have more oxytocin receptors or maybe more oxytocin overall in this brain area that's associated with motivation and pursuit.

但是渴望、欲望和冲动，那种以一种近乎条件反射的方式，尝试再次联系那个人，给他们发短信，想听到他们的消息，可以——而且我必须强调可以——反映出这样一个事实：你恰好在这个与动机和追求相关的大脑区域有更多的催产素受体，或者整体上可能有更多的催产素。

It does not necessarily mean that you are more capable of attachment than people who move through grief more quickly.

这并不一定意味着你比那些更快地度过悲伤的人更有能力依恋。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I should say that people move through grief at different rates, even if two people lost the same person or same animal.

我应该说，即使两个人失去了同一个人或同一只动物，人们以不同的速度经历悲伤。

People move through this at different rates.

人们以不同的速度经历这个过程。

Some of that is no doubt psychological, but some of it no doubt is also neurochemical and biological.

其中一些无疑是心理上的，但其中一些无疑也是神经化学和生物学上的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In sharing this with you, I hope it sheds some understanding and perhaps even some compassion for people who are moving through things more quickly or in a different way.

在与您分享这一点时，我希望它能为那些更快或以不同方式度过难关的人们带来一些理解，甚至可能是一些同情。

Of course, it should also, I would hope, shed compassion and understanding for people that seem incapable of moving on, it's taking them far longer to move on.

当然，我希望它也应该对那些似乎无法继续前进的人表示同情和理解，因为他们需要更长的时间才能继续前进。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Earlier we talked about complicated grief, noncomplicated grief and prolonged grief disorder.

早些时候我们讨论了复杂性悲伤、非复杂性悲伤和长期悲伤障碍。

I should say that the precise divisions between these categories is not very precise.

应该说，这些类别之间的精确划分并不是很精确。

It takes a really trained expert to be able to identify whether or not somebody is in the prolonged grief disorder category, complicated, or noncomplicated grief.

需要训练有素的专家才能识别某人是否属于长期悲伤障碍、复杂悲伤或非复杂悲伤。

There's actually a set of questionnaires that I invite you to answer if you like.

实际上有一组调查问卷，如果您愿意的话，我邀请您回答。

They were provided, or I should say I accessed them through a public site on Mary-Frances O'Connor's webpage.

它们是提供的，或者我应该说我是通过玛丽-弗朗西斯·奥康纳网页上的公共网站访问它们的。

We'll put them in the show note captions.

我们会将它们放在节目注释标题中。

You actually can submit those answers in an anonymous way to a study that she's doing.

实际上，您可以以匿名方式将这些答案提交给她正在进行的研究。

She has several surveys — one for loss of a romantic relationship, other for loss due to death of somebody, and still another one that relates to home sickness.

她有几项调查——一项是关于失去恋爱关系的调查，另一项是关于因某人死亡而造成的损失，还有一项与思乡病有关。

It's also available in several different languages.

它还提供多种不同语言版本。

I'll provide a link to that website.

我将提供该网站的链接。

It's very easy to download.

下载非常简单。

There's no cost to that at all.

这样做根本不需要任何成本。

You can contribute to the scientific data collection process if you like.

如果您愿意，您可以为科学数据收集过程做出贡献。

I do believe that you get your scores back or an interpretation of your scores by participating there.

我确实相信，通过参加那里，您可以得到您的分数或对您分数的解释。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

When Mary-Frances O'Connor hopefully comes on the podcast, she can tell us some more of the detail about separating out this prolonged grief disorder, complicated and uncomplicated grief.

当玛丽-弗朗西斯·奥康纳（Mary-Frances O'Connor）出现在播客中时，她可以告诉我们更多关于区分这种长期悲伤障碍、复杂和简单悲伤的细节。

But in the meantime, it's very clear that people move through grief at different rates.

但与此同时，很明显人们以不同的速度度过悲伤。

As I mentioned just a moment ago, that this is entirely normal, probably has a basis in neurochemicals and hormones such as oxytocin.

正如我刚才提到的，这是完全正常的，可能有神经化学物质和催产素等激素的基础。

There are probably other reasons as well.

可能还有其他原因。

In fact, we can assume with almost certainty that there are other reasons as well.

事实上，我们几乎可以肯定地假设还有其他原因。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Nonetheless, I think it is really important to think about why some people might have a harder time moving through grief due to life circumstance, innate differences, and so on.

尽管如此，我认为思考为什么有些人可能会因为生活环境、先天差异等原因而难以度过悲伤是非常重要的。

There's a very nice set of studies, but one in particular, entitled "Catecholamine predictors of complicated grief outcomes." Here again, the first author is Mary-Frances O'Connor, reminding us that she's done so much important work in this area.

有一组非常好的研究，但特别是一项题为“复杂悲伤结果的儿茶酚胺预测因子”的研究。再次，第一作者是玛丽-弗朗西斯·奥康纳，提醒我们她在这一领域做了很多重要的工作。

This paper has several conclusions, but one of the key conclusions is that this particular category of molecules we call the catecholamines: the catecholamines include epinephrine, which is also adrenaline; norepinephrine, which is noradrenaline; and dopamine, which you've learned about before.

这篇论文有几个结论，但关键结论之一是我们称之为儿茶酚胺的这一特殊分子类别：儿茶酚胺包括肾上腺素，也就是肾上腺素；去甲肾上腺素，即去甲肾上腺素；和多巴胺，你之前已经了解过。

Here, I'm just going to paraphrase, or I'll read directly, actually.

在这里，我只是转述一下，或者我直接读一下。

What they found was that participants ...

他们发现参与者...

again, this is human subjects ...

再说一遍，这是人类主题......

with the highest levels of epinephrine, of adrenaline, pretreatment had the highest levels of complicated grief symptoms posttreatment, and that could account for their baseline level of symptoms.

由于肾上腺素水平最高，治疗前的复杂悲伤症状水平最高，这可以解释他们症状的基线水平。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What this means is that people that have a lot of circulating adrenaline, we might even call these people who are, or typically reside at a higher level of autonomic arousal — we have an autonomic nervous system that dictates how calm or alert or stressed we happen to be just at baseline — people who tend to be more alert and anxious at baseline prior to any grief episode tend to have, or statistically on average we should say, are more likely to experience complicated grief and maybe even prolonged grief symptoms.

这意味着，那些循环中肾上腺素较多的人，我们甚至可以称这些人处于或通常处于较高水平的自主唤醒状态——我们有一个自主神经系统，它决定了我们在基线时的平静、警觉或压力程度——在任何悲伤发作之前在基线时往往更加警觉和焦虑的人往往有，或者从统计上来看，我们应该说，更有可能经历复杂的悲伤，甚至可能是长期的悲伤症状。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If you're somebody that is anticipating losing someone or an animal or a thing at some point, and I think that really means everybody, utilizing tools to adjust your epinephrine, your adrenaline levels down, has a number of important benefits — improving sleep, health metrics, et cetera.

如果你预计在某个时候会失去某人、一只动物或一件事，我认为这确实意味着每个人，利用工具来调整你的肾上腺素，降低你的肾上腺素水平，有很多重要的好处——改善睡眠、健康指标等等。

There are tools to do that.

有一些工具可以做到这一点。

We have an episode on mastering stress that you can find at our website, hubermanlab.com.

我们有一集关于控制压力的节目，您可以在我们的网站 hubermanlab.com 上找到。

It has a lot of behavioral tools that are backed by science, some of work that was done in my laboratory, but certainly other laboratories as well that will allow you to control your autonomic nervous system both in real time and reduce the overall level of stress and even chronic activation of the so-called sympathetic arm or the autonomic nervous system, which is just fancy geek-speak for saying there are tools to help you be calm, not just for sake of navigating daily stress, but as this paper illustrates, for anticipating the fact that at some point you will lose somebody, an animal or a thing, and there is a way to move through that process that we call healthy normal grieving.

它有很多有科学支持的行为工具，其中一些工作是在我的实验室完成的，当然也有其他实验室，它们可以让你实时控制你的自主神经系统，降低整体压力水平，甚至减少所谓交感神经臂或自主神经系统的慢性激活，这只是奇特的极客说法，说有一些工具可以帮助你保持冷静，不仅仅是为了应对日常压力，而且正如本文所阐述的那样，为了预测这样一个事实：在某些时候，你会失去某人、一只动物或一件东西，有一种方法可以度过这个过程，我们称之为健康的正常悲伤。

Then there's the so-called complicated grief for prolonged grief disorders that reflect immense challenge in moving through grief at a reasonable rate.

然后是所谓的复杂悲伤，即长期悲伤障碍，反映了以合理的速度度过悲伤的巨大挑战。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So you can somewhat inoculate yourself against complicated or prolonged grief by reducing your resting levels of, or your preloss levels of epinephrine, of adrenaline.

因此，您可以通过降低静息状态下的肾上腺素水平或肾上腺素丢失前的水平，在一定程度上预防复杂或长期的悲伤。

Again, there are excellent tools to do that.

同样，有一些优秀的工具可以做到这一点。

I won't review them here, for sake of time, but they're time-stamped and you can access those easily.

由于时间原因，我不会在这里对它们进行审查，但它们带有时间戳，您可以轻松访问它们。

Again, zero-cost tools.

再次强调，零成本工具。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Going back to this paper, "Catecholamine predictors of complicated grief treatment outcomes," should say that not only did participants with the highest levels of adrenaline have the highest levels of complicated grief symptoms posttreatment, but the predictive relationship between these two things, adrenaline and complicated grief, was not seen in depression.

回到这篇论文，“复杂悲伤治疗结果的儿茶酚胺预测因素”应该说，不仅肾上腺素水平最高的参与者在治疗后复杂悲伤症状的水平最高，而且肾上腺素和复杂悲伤这两者之间的预测关系在抑郁症中也没有发现。

I find that incredibly interesting because it further separates depression from grieving and grieving from depression.

我发现这非常有趣，因为它进一步区分了抑郁与悲伤以及悲伤与抑郁。

A resounding theme again and again.

一次又一次响亮的主题。

Grieving is not depression and depression is not necessarily grieving.

悲伤不是抑郁，抑郁也不一定是悲伤。

They can coexist, but they are separable as well and indeed reflect separate brain circuitries entirely.

它们可以共存，但它们也是可分离的，并且实际上完全反映了独立的大脑回路。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The conclusion they draw is that the present study supports the hypothesis that catecholamine levels — again, epinephrine, dopamine, norepinephrine are the catecholamines — are affected by bereavement and in turn can affect the ability of those with complicated grief to benefit from psychotherapy.

他们得出的结论是，本研究支持这样的假设：儿茶酚胺水平（肾上腺素、多巴胺、去甲肾上腺素都是儿茶酚胺）受到丧亲之痛的影响，进而影响那些患有复杂悲伤的人从心理治疗中受益的能力。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What does all this mean?

这一切意味着什么？

What this means is we can prepare ourselves to be in a better state to access, yes, access grief when it's appropriate, and, indeed, grief is the appropriate response when we lose someone, an animal or a thing that we are closely attached to.

这意味着我们可以让自己处于更好的状态，在适当的时候去承受悲伤，事实上，当我们失去某人、一只动物或我们密切依恋的事物时，悲伤是适当的反应。

And yet to be able to move through that at a pace and in a way that is most adaptive for us.

但我们仍然能够以最适合我们的速度和方式度过这一时期。

To just again highlight what adaptive means, it does not mean dissociating from the attachment to the person, animal, or thing.

再次强调适应性的含义，它并不意味着脱离对人、动物或事物的依恋。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I just want to pause for a second and mention why I keep repeating person, animal, or thing.

我只是想暂停一下并提及为什么我不断重复人、动物或事物。

I'm saying that because while grieving the loss of a person or a relationship with a person — doesn't have to be through death, of course, but death or otherwise — is something that we all can intuitively understand even if we haven't experienced it, we are capable of achieving great attachments to animals as well.

我之所以这么说，是因为虽然我们对失去一个人或与一个人的关系感到悲伤——当然不一定是通过死亡，但死亡或其他方式——是我们所有人都能直观理解的事情，即使我们没有经历过，但我们也有能力对动物产生强烈的依恋。

While the loss of a thing, of an object, in no way, shape, or form approximates the loss of a person or an animal — I would never suggest that it does — it would also be naive and unfair of me or anyone else to suggest that things can't hold immense importance to us and that the loss of them can't feel quite significant and invoke the grieving process.

虽然失去一个东西、一个物体，无论以何种方式、形状或形式，都与失去一个人或一只动物相似——我绝不会这么认为——但如果我或其他任何人认为这些东西对我们来说不那么重要，并且失去它们不会感到非常重要并引发悲伤过程，那也是天真和不公平的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This isn't always about materialism.

这并不总是与唯物主义有关。

Sometimes it's purely about the sentimental attachment.

有时纯粹是出于感情上的依恋。

For instance, the loss of a wedding ring or an engagement ring that was very meaningful to you; or an article of clothing or a painting; or even a small, seemingly important object to somebody else but something that held great meaning to you.

例如，丢失了对您来说非常有意义的结婚戒指或订婚戒指；或一件衣服或一幅画；甚至是对别人来说看似重要但对你来说却意义重大的小东西。

Maybe a seashell that you collected with somebody on the beach and then somehow it gets lost, and it's the relationship with that person that's contained within that object for you as a representation within that object that's important.

也许你和某人在海滩上收集了一个贝壳，然后不知何故它丢失了，而对于你来说，包含在该对象中的与该人的关系作为该对象中的表示很重要。

That's the reason why I keep saying person, animal, or thing.

这就是为什么我一直说人、动物或事物的原因。

I think it's only fair to include things in that category, but of course with the understanding that they don't hold the absolute same magnitude as the loss of a being.

我认为将事物归入该类别是公平的，但当然要理解它们与生命的损失并不具有绝对相同的程度。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

One thing that we ought to consider for a moment is whether or not the depth of attachment that you have to somebody predicts how long it will take for you to move through the loss of that person.

我们应该暂时考虑的一件事是，你对某人的依恋深度是否可以预测你需要多长时间才能走出失去那个人的痛苦。

We often hear this.

我们经常听到这样的说法。

Actually, I can remember some years ago, at the end of a relationship, a friend and colleague of mine saying, "For every year that you were together, it's going to take you one month to get over that person." I thought, "Where in the world do those data come from?" And this is what I call anecdata, or collective data where ...

事实上，我记得几年前，在一段关系结束时，我的一位朋友兼同事对我说：“你们在一起的每一年，你都需要一个月的时间才能忘记那个人。”我想，“这些数据到底从哪里来？”这就是我所说的轶事或集体数据……

this is like phrases such as "absence makes the heart grow fonder." Indeed, sometimes absence can make the heart grow fonder, in the context of two living people or people in a loving relationship or even in the context of grief and loss.

这就像“缺席使心变得更亲近”这样的短语。事实上，有时，在两个活着的人或处于恋爱关系中的人，甚至在悲伤和失落的情况下，缺席可以让心变得更加亲密。

But of course, there's "absence makes the heart grow fonder," and then you also will hear "out of sight, out of mind." If you've been listening to this episode, clearly "out of sight" does not mean "out of mind" or out of emotional connection.

但当然，有“缺席使心变得更亲近”，然后你也会听到“眼不见心不烦”。如果您一直在听这一集，那么显然“看不见”并不意味着“心不在焉”或失去情感联系。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

These sayings of well, "It takes x number of months for a number of years," or "Out of sight, out of mind," or "Absence makes the heart grow fonder," they really don't hold a lot of meaning, at least not for somebody like me who likes science.

好吧，“几年需要几个月”，或者“眼不见心不烦”，或者“缺席使心变得更亲近”，它们确实没有多大意义，至少对于像我这样喜欢科学的人来说没有多大意义。

Because science is at least geared toward or aims towards establishing things in fact, not opinion, but also because science allows you to make predictions.

因为科学至少是面向或旨在建立事实，而不是观点，而且因为科学允许你做出预测。

It allows you to orient yourself in a process and make predictions and understand.

它可以让您在流程中定位自己并做出预测和理解。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So what are we to think of people who seem very, very attached to somebody; they break up and they seem just crushed, devastated, but three weeks later they're in a new relationship and they seem perfectly fine?

那么我们该如何看待那些看起来非常非常依恋某人的人呢？他们分手了，他们看起来很沮丧，很沮丧，但三周后他们就建立了新的关系，而且看起来一切都很好？

Or somebody whose spouse dies and then suddenly they're in a new relationship.

或者有人的配偶去世了，然后他们突然建立了新的关系。

I think there are rates of transition, if you will, that suggest some dysfunction, pathology, et cetera.

我认为，如果你愿意的话，有一些转变率表明存在一些功能障碍、病理学等。

But here we aren't in a position to judge, we're only in a position to speculate about this, and I think we can reasonably speculate that it sort of makes sense why someone who has an intense attachment to somebody might be able to form intense attachments generally, right?

但在这里我们无法做出判断，我们只能对此进行推测，而且我认为我们可以合理地推测，为什么对某人有强烈依恋的人通常能够形成强烈的依恋，这是有道理的，对吗？

That they aren't restricted to one person, whereas other people who have an intense attachment to somebody might find themselves entirely incapable of moving on or it would take them a very long time.

他们并不局限于一个人，而其他对某人有强烈依恋的人可能会发现自己完全无法继续前进，或者需要很长时间。

Hence, the lines in the Feynman letter to Arline about, he had met various other young women, they seemed perfectly nice and yet they were meaningless to him in the shadow of her memory, or we should say in the light of Arline's memory, or the memory of Arline, rather.

因此，费曼在写给阿琳的信中说，他遇到了许多其他的年轻女子，她们看起来非常友善，但在她的记忆的阴影下，她们对他来说毫无意义，或者我们应该说，根据阿琳的记忆，或者更确切地说，根据阿琳的记忆。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

These dimensionalities of attachment, they cut in every direction.

这些依恋的维度，它们从各个方向切入。

I don't think any well-trained psychologist or neuroscientist would ever say, "Oh, if you are somebody who becomes very attached, therefore it's very hard to move on." I think that could be true.

我不认为任何训练有素的心理学家或神经科学家会说：“哦，如果你是一个非常依恋的人，那么就很难继续前进。”我认为这可能是真的。

It could also be that if you're somebody who has a great capacity for attachment, you have a great capacity for attachment overall.

也可能是，如果你是一个具有很强依恋能力的人，那么你整体上也有很强的依恋能力。

Neuroscience nor psychology is really in a position to judge certainly, but it's also not in a position to make those kinds of predictions.

神经科学和心理学确实无法做出肯定的判断，但也无法做出此类预测。

At least, the field as it stands right now of attachment and grieving can't really speak to why that's the case.

至少，目前的依恋和悲伤领域并不能真正解释为什么会出现这种情况。

That's my attempt to depathologize some of what we observe.

这是我试图对我们所观察到的一些现象进行去病态化的尝试。

Although I have to confess from a just sort of everyday stance that sometimes the rate in which people move out of attachments and grieving can be somewhat eerie.

尽管我不得不从日常立场承认，有时人们摆脱依恋和悲伤的速度可能有点令人毛骨悚然。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'd like to take a moment and explore this idea that allowing ourselves to really feel the attachment to somebody can accelerate or at least support adaptive transitioning through grief.

我想花点时间探讨一下这个想法，即让自己真正感受到对某人的依恋可以加速或至少支持通过悲伤进行适应性转变。

There's a really wonderful study that on the face of it appears to be a what we call negative result.

有一项非常精彩的研究，从表面上看似乎是我们所说的负面结果。

A negative result is when a hypothesis is posed and then turns out the hypothesis is not true.

否定的结果是提出假设但结果证明该假设不正确。

But as is the case with so many interesting scientific findings, often when there's a negative result, there's a more interesting result nested in that negative outcome.

但正如许多有趣的科学发现一样，通常当出现负面结果时，该负面结果中隐藏着更有趣的结果。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This is the case in a particular paper I'll share with you now.

我现在将与您分享的一篇特定论文就是这种情况。

There's a paper published in the journal Biological Psychology.

《生物心理学》杂志上发表了一篇论文。

Again, the title is posed as a question, which is "Emotional disclosure for whom?

标题再次提出一个问题，即“为谁而情感表露？

A study of vagal tone in bereavement." What this study explored was whether or not written disclosure of the emotional connection to somebody that was lost would be effective as a way for people to move through the grieving process.

丧亲之痛中迷走神经张力的研究。”这项研究探讨的是，以书面形式披露与失去亲人的情感联系是否可以有效地帮助人们度过悲伤的过程。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The study also explored the so-called vagus nerve.

该研究还探讨了所谓的迷走神经。

The vagus nerve is an extensive nerve pathway that is bidirectional between brain and body, so brain to body and body to brain.

迷走神经是大脑和身体之间的广泛神经通路，即大脑到身体和身体到大脑。

It generally is associated with calming effects on our brain and body, although that's certainly not always the case.

它通常与我们的大脑和身体的镇静作用有关，尽管情况并非总是如此。

The way to think about it in terms of what we're going to talk about now is heart rate and heart rate variability.

我们现在要讨论的问题是心率和心率变异性。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In very simplistic terms, if your heart was just allowed to beat at its sort of default rate, that rate would be rather high because of the activation of the so-called sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system, the alertness component of the autonomic nervous system.

用非常简单的术语来说，如果你的心脏只允许以其默认频率跳动，那么该频率会相当高，因为自主神经系统的所谓交感神经臂（自主神经系统的警觉部分）被激活。

The parasympathetic nervous system, as it's called, involves calming.

所谓的副交感神经系统涉及镇静作用。

We sometimes hear sympathetic is for stress or fight-or-flight.

我们有时听到同情是为了应对压力或战斗或逃跑。

It's for a lot of other things as well, I should mention.

我应该提一下，它也适用于很多其他事情。

It is not for sympathy.

这不是为了博取同情。

Sympa means together and it reflects the activity of a bunch of neurons being active at the same time or together, sympa.

Sympa 的意思是“在一起”，它反映了一堆神经元同时或一起活跃的活动，sympa。

Whereas parasympathetic is often associated with rest-and-digest functions, or calming functions, although it is certainly involved in other things as well.

而副交感神经通常与休息和消化功能或镇静功能相关，尽管它肯定也涉及其他事情。

So sympathetic nervous system drives alertness, panic, stress, et cetera; parasympathetic nervous system, meaning a distinct set of neurons, drive calming, falling asleep, digestion, sexual arousal, for that matter, and so on.

因此，交感神经系统会引起警觉、恐慌、压力等；副交感神经系统，即一组独特的神经元，负责镇静、入睡、消化、性唤起等。

So it's sort of like a seesaw of alertness and calm, alertness and calm, sympathetic and parasympathetic, back and forth.

所以这有点像警惕和冷静、警惕和冷静、同情和副交感神经的跷跷板，来来回回。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The vagus nerve is generally associated with parasympathetic functions and has the capacity to slow down our heart rate, in particular by exhales.

迷走神经通常与副交感神经功能相关，并且能够减慢我们的心率，特别是通过呼气。

Just simply because of the movement of the diaphragm and its relationship to the heart and the thoracic cavity, exhales result in slowing down of the heart rate.

仅仅因为隔膜的运动及其与心脏和胸腔的关系，呼气会导致心率减慢。

This is what we call an increased vagal tone.

这就是我们所说的迷走神经张力增强。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Let me explain for a moment, and actually here's a tool you can use not just in terms of navigating grief, but in terms of stress modulation, generally.

让我解释一下，实际上，这里有一个工具，您不仅可以在缓解悲伤方面使用，而且通常可以在压力调节方面使用。

We have a muscle called the diaphragm.

我们有一块叫做横膈膜的肌肉。

When we inhale, whether or not it's through our mouth or nose, our diaphragm moves down.

当我们吸气时，无论是通过嘴还是鼻子，我们的隔膜都会向下移动。

As a consequence, there is more space overall in the thoracic cavity.

因此，胸腔内总体上有更多的空间。

The heart gets a little bit bigger, believe it or not, volume-wise.

不管你信不信，心脏的体积变大了一点。

Blood flows more slowly through that large volume, and there's a signal conveyed from the nervous system to the heart to speed the heart up.

血液在如此大的体积中流动得更慢，并且有信号从神经系统传递到心脏以加速心跳。

So inhales literally speed your heart up.

所以吸气确实会加速你的心跳。

When you exhale, the diaphragm moves up, and as a consequence, there's less space in the thoracic cavity.

当你呼气时，隔膜向上移动，因此胸腔内的空间较小。

Heart gets a little bit smaller, the existing blood volume in the heart at that time moves more quickly through that small volume.

心脏变小了一点，此时心脏中现有的血容量在那个小体积中移动得更快。

A given amount of blood volume make the compartments in the heart smaller, and the blood moves more quickly through that volume.

一定量的血容量使心脏中的室变小，并且血液在该容量中的流动速度更快。

As a consequence, the nervous system sends a signal to the heart via the vagus and other pathways to slow the heart down.

因此，神经系统通过迷走神经和其他途径向心脏发送信号，以减慢心脏速度。

In other words, exhales slow the heart down.

换句话说，呼气会使心跳减慢。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That process, that relationship between inhale speeding the heart up and exhale slowing the heart down is something called respiratory sinus arrhythmia.

这个过程，即吸气使心率加快和呼气使心率减慢之间的关系，称为呼吸性窦性心律失常。

Some people are able to engage respiratory sinus arrhythmia more naturally, more reflexively than others.

有些人比其他人能够更自然、更本能地应对呼吸性窦性心律失常。

You can actually train this by consciously thinking about slowing your heart rate while you exhale and consciously thinking about increasing your heart rate as you inhale.

实际上，您可以通过在呼气时有意识地考虑减慢心率并在吸气时有意识地考虑增加心率来进行训练。

You can literally strengthen these pathways.

您确实可以加强这些途径。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, respiratory sinus arrhythmia and the ability to slow your heart rate with exhales is one dimension of what's called vagal tone, or your ability to control your overall level of activation of alertness and stress with these vagus nerve pathways.

现在，呼吸性窦性心律失常和通过呼气减慢心率的能力是所谓迷走神经张力的一个维度，或者是您通过这些迷走神经通路控制警觉性和压力的总体激活水平的能力。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Vagal tone is something that varies from person to person.

迷走神经张力因人而异。

If you've trained up or you've thought about your relationship between breath and heart rate, you can improve vagal tone.

如果您已经接受过训练或者考虑过呼吸与心率之间的关系，则可以改善迷走神经张力。

Some people have very robust vagal tone without having done any training, other people have less of it, et cetera.

有些人在没有接受任何训练的情况下就有非常强的迷走神经张力，而另一些人的迷走神经张力则较少，等等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'll just paraphrase from this paper and you'll see where this takes us in terms of navigating grief, because it's quite important.

我将简单地解释一下这篇论文，你就会看到这对我们在应对悲伤方面的意义，因为它非常重要。

The vagus nerve provides inhibitory regulatory influence on the heart, allowing the heart rate to increase rapidly through vagal withdrawal — that means kind of coming off the brake of the parasympathetic nervous system, as in response to a stressor in one's environment.

迷走神经对心脏产生抑制性调节影响，通过迷走神经收缩使心率迅速增加——这意味着副交感神经系统的制动，就像对环境中的压力源做出反应一样。

When you're stressed, you rarely take the opportunity, if it's an immediate stress or threat, to actively exhale, although that would be a great tool to use, and, in fact, we promote that tool in our mastering stress episode.

当你感到压力时，如果是直接的压力或威胁，你很少会抓住机会主动呼气，尽管这将是一个很好的工具，事实上，我们在掌握压力的过程中推广了该工具。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Vagal withdrawal usually co-occurs with an increase in sympathetic activation of the heart — you now know what that is — or is known as the fight-or-flight response.

迷走神经退缩通常与心脏交感神经激活的增加同时发生——你现在知道那是什么了——或者被称为战斗或逃跑反应。

Vagal tone reflects the degree to which there is tonic, meaning ongoing, vagal influence on the heart.

迷走神经张力反映了强直的程度，即迷走神经对心脏的持续影响。

So when you have a high degree of vagal tone, it means that you are always activating that brake on your stress system, just at default.

因此，当你的迷走神经张力很高时，这意味着你总是在默认情况下激活压力系统的刹车。

Some people just happen to do that more, other people need to practice long-exhale breathing in order to build up vagal tone, something that's very useful to do whether you're grieving or not.

有些人只是碰巧这样做得更多，而另一些人则需要练习长呼气呼吸以增强迷走神经张力，无论您是否悲伤，这都非常有用。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, in this study, what they did is they had people, and I should say it was 35 participants, go through a writing exercise for a period of weeks.

现在，在这项研究中，他们所做的是让人们，我应该说是 35 名参与者，进行为期几周的写作练习。

They actually wrote about three times per week.

他们实际上每周写大约三遍。

Then there was a follow-up at some period of time, and then again about a month later.

然后在一段时间进行一次后续行动，然后大约一个月后再次进行。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There were two different groups.

有两个不同的群体。

One group was in the so-called written disclosure group.

其中一组属于所谓的书面披露组。

What they did is they, on day one, they would write about what happened when a loved one died.

他们所做的是，在第一天，他们会写下亲人去世时发生的事情。

Indeed, they used people who had experienced real loss.

事实上，他们使用了经历过真正损失的人。

They were asked to talk about and write about their deepest emotions and thoughts about it, memories of their loved one.

他们被要求谈论并写下他们最深的情感和想法，以及对亲人的回忆。

Very intense stuff, if you think about it, if they're in the immediate period of having lost someone.

如果你想一想，如果他们正处于失去某人的时期，那是非常紧张的事情。

Then they actually were asked to write a letter to the person that they lost.

然后他们实际上被要求给他们失去的人写一封信。

Again, a very intense exercise to go through if you did indeed lose somebody as these subjects had.

如果你确实像这些受试者那样失去了某人，那么这又是一次非常激烈的练习。

Then of course there was the testing some period of time later, and I'll tell you what that testing involved.

当然一段时间之后还有测试，我会告诉你测试都涉及到什么。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The other group was a so-called control group where they were simply told to write about how they use their time — so an emotionally kind of empty writing exercise, if you will.

另一组是所谓的对照组，他们只是被要求写下他们如何利用自己的时间——如果你愿意的话，这是一种情感上的空洞写作练习。

They described what they would do today after they woke up, et cetera — no heavy emotional content and so on.

他们描述了今天醒来后要做的事情等等——没有沉重的情感内容等等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, as I mentioned earlier, the immediate results of this study were a negative result, meaning no effect.

现在，正如我之前提到的，这项研究的直接结果是负面结果，意味着没有效果。

The disclosure ...

该披露...

we should say, the emotionally intense writing group and the control group did not differ at baseline on any symptom measures or psychological variables, they tell us.

他们告诉我们，我们应该说，情绪强烈的写作组和对照组在任何症状测量或心理变量上的基线没有差异。

At least at face value, somewhat disappointingly, there really wasn't any kind of difference in outcome between the group that wrote about very emotional intense stuff versus nonemotionally intense.

至少从表面上看，有些令人失望的是，写出情感强烈的内容与非情感强烈的内容的小组之间的结果确实没有任何差异。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, what I didn't tell you thus far is why they had them do this ...

现在，到目前为止我没有告诉你的是为什么他们让他们这样做......

PART 2 OF 3 ENDS Andrew Huberman:

第 2 部分（共 3 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：

Now what I didn't tell you thus far is why they had them do this exercise at all.

到目前为止我没有告诉你的是他们为什么让他们做这个练习。

They had them do this exercise, because many of the effective practices for moving through grief involve, as I mentioned earlier, getting close to and actually deliberately experiencing the attachment that one has to that person that was lost, not distracting oneself, not getting into this counterfactual thinking, the "what if, what if, what if," but rather thinking about, or in this case, writing about the real attachment.

他们让他们做这个练习，因为正如我之前提到的，摆脱悲伤的许多有效做法都涉及，接近并实际刻意地体验一个人对失去的人的依恋，不要分散自己的注意力，不要陷入这种反事实的思维，“如果，如果，如果，会怎么样”，而是思考，或者在这种情况下，写下真正的依恋。

The initial idea was if people write about this attachment, that they're going to experience this attachment, and that will serve them in some or many ways in terms of moving through grief.

最初的想法是，如果人们写下这种依恋，他们就会体验到这种依恋，这将以某种或多种方式帮助他们度过悲伤。

And that wasn't what they found.

但他们发现的并非如此。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

They found no difference between the two groups, until they explored who had higher vagal tone, who had a greater degree of so-called respiratory sinus arrhythmia.

他们发现两组之间没有差异，直到他们探究了谁的迷走神经张力较高，谁的所谓呼吸性窦性心律失常程度较高。

In other words, who was able to modulate their state using their breathing and their body?

换句话说，谁能够通过自己的呼吸和身体来调节自己的状态呢？

And what they discovered was that a subset of individuals who had a high degree of vagal tone seemed to get more benefit from this writing-type exercise.

他们发现，迷走神经张力较高的一部分人似乎从这种写作类型的练习中获益更多。

Now, this is one study and I would consider it fairly preliminary, with 35 subjects, although it's a study unto itself and I think a quite nice one.

现在，这是一项研究，我认为它相当初步，有 35 个科目，尽管它本身就是一项研究，而且我认为这是一项相当不错的研究。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And it really set the stage for a number of other studies that followed from this group and other groups, that really point to the fact that, yes, indeed, accessing these states of emotionality by writing or thinking about somebody is quite powerful in terms of engaging the bodily states and the mind states associated with the attachment.

它确实为该小组和其他小组进行的许多其他研究奠定了基础，这些研究确实指出了这样一个事实：是的，确实，通过写作或思考某人来访问这些情绪状态在参与与依恋相关的身体状态和精神状态方面非常强大。

And that is very beneficial for moving through grief.

这对于度过悲伤非常有益。

That is very beneficial for sensing the attachment, and now it makes perfect sense as to why some people would benefit from that practice more than others, because some people are able to access more real somatic feelings of attachment by writing about the attachment, or by thinking about it, than others.

这对于感知依恋非常有益，现在就可以完全理解为什么有些人会比其他人从这种练习中受益更多，因为有些人比其他人能够通过写下或思考依恋来获得更真实的躯体依恋感受。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This brings us back to an earlier discussion we were having, where we were talking about how some people seem to move through things very quickly, or don't seem to be grieving constantly, and a spouse or a family member of that person might think, "Gosh, why aren't you upset?

这让我们回到了之前的讨论，当时我们谈论的是有些人似乎很快就能度过难关，或者似乎并不经常悲伤，而那个人的配偶或家庭成员可能会想，“天哪，你为什么不难过？

How is it that you can be functional and I'm not?" or "How is it that you can be functional?" There can even be fractures in families and relationships on the basis of differences in rates of grieving and so on.

为什么你能发挥作用，而我却不能？”或“你怎样才能发挥作用？”由于悲伤率等的差异，甚至可能导致家庭和关系破裂。

Well, some of this, again, probably relates to psychology and the different attachments that people had to the person, or animal or thing that was lost, but it no doubt also has to do with how much of a mind-body connection, how much vagal tone exists in the person when they suddenly found themselves in the grief episode.

好吧，其中一些可能又与心理学以及人们对失去的人、动物或事物的不同依恋有关，但毫无疑问，这也与当人突然发现自己处于悲伤之中时，人的身心联系有多少、迷走神经张力有多少有关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This actually offers multiple opportunities.

这实际上提供了多种机会。

If you're somebody, for instance, who is grieving so intensely and so often that you're finding it immensely difficult to move through grief at a reasonable rate, and you might even say or find yourself diagnosed with prolonged grief disorder or with complicated grief syndrome in a way that's really impairing your adaptive functioning in life, well then it's not clear to me, at least by my read of the data, that you would want to engage in a lot of practices to increase the mind-body relationship and feeling so much of this attachment, because you're already feeling an immense amount of it.

例如，如果你是一个如此强烈、如此频繁地悲伤的人，你发现很难以合理的速度度过悲伤，你甚至可能会说或发现自己被诊断出患有长期悲伤障碍或复杂的悲伤综合症，这确实损害了你在生活中的适应性功能，那么我不清楚，至少从我读到的数据来看，你并不清楚你是否想要进行大量的练习来增加身心关系并感受到如此多的这种依恋，因为你已经感受到了很多。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Whereas other people who are feeling challenged in accessing the feelings of attachment, and perhaps not functioning well as a consequence of that, might find that practicing breathing in order to encourage respiratory sinus arrhythmia, again focusing on slowing your heart rate consciously while you exhale, and concentrating on increasing your heart rate as you inhale.

而其他在获得依恋感方面感到困难并且可能因此而无法正常工作的人可能会发现练习呼吸以促进呼吸性窦性心律失常，再次专注于在呼气时有意识地减慢心率，并在吸气时专注于提高心率。

Even just as a brief practice of even just one to three minutes or one to five minutes every once in a while or per day, that could be immensely beneficial in building this mind-body relationship.

即使只是偶尔或每天进行一到三分钟或一到五分钟的简短练习，这对于建立这种身心关系也非常有益。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because again, what this paper really points to, and set off a number of other investigations related to, is that for those that can really feel the relationship between breathing heart rate, what we call vagal tone, well those people are going to be in a better position to move through grief, not because they are disengaging from the feelings of attachment, but because they are better able to access those feelings of attachment.

因为，这篇论文真正指出的，并引发了许多其他相关的调查，是对于那些能够真正感受到呼吸心率（我们所说的迷走神经张力）之间关系的人来说，这些人将能够更好地度过悲伤，不是因为他们摆脱了依恋的感觉，而是因为他们能够更好地获得这些依恋的感觉。

What this relates to, of course, is that tripartite map, that three-part map that we talked about earlier, that representation of space: where things are, where the person is, where their belongings are, where their car is, where their bicycle is.

当然，这涉及的是三部分地图，我们之前讨论过的三部分地图，空间的表示：事物在哪里，人在哪里，他们的财物在哪里，他们的汽车在哪里，他们的自行车在哪里。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Time: when you were expecting to see them on a regular basis, when they would call, when they would come home from work, et cetera.

时间：你期望定期见到他们的时间、他们打电话的时间、他们下班回家的时间等等。

And that third node, or that third dimension, of attachment, which is literally attachment and closeness — well, what we're talking about here is anchoring to that attachment and really feeling into that, but then disengaging from the space-and-time map that we call episodic memory, that menu of prior experiences that keeps us in many ways maladaptively in an expectation of what never can be again.

依恋的第三个节点，或者说第三个维度，字面意义上的依恋和亲密感——好吧，我们在这里谈论的是锚定在这种依恋上，并真正感受到它，但随后脱离了我们称之为情景记忆的时空地图，即先前经历的菜单，它让我们在很多方面不适应地期待着永远不会再发生的事情。

Now I'd like to take a moment and consider some of the tools that you can access that support healthy transitioning through grief.

现在，我想花点时间考虑一下您可以使用的一些工具，以支持健康地度过悲伤的过渡。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And these are tools distinct from that neural map, that space-time-closeness-attachment map that we were talking about before.

这些工具不同于我们之前讨论的神经图、时空紧密依恋图。

Rather, it's important to remind ourselves that everything exists in a context of our baseline physiology.

相反，重要的是要提醒自己，一切都存在于我们的基线生理学背景下。

And I'm certainly not going to be the first or the last to tell you that everything in life, learning, relationships with people that are still around, our health in every way, immune system, et cetera function far better when we're sleeping really well and when we are generally awake during the daytime and asleep at night.

我当然不会是第一个或最后一个告诉你，当我们睡得很好并且当我们通常白天醒着、晚上睡着时，生活中的一切、学习、与周围人的关系、我们各方面的健康、免疫系统等等都会发挥更好的作用。

I realize there are shift workers out there.

我意识到那里有轮班工人。

people who are traveling and are jet lagged.

正在旅行且时差反应的人。

First of all, thank you, shift workers.

首先谢谢轮班工人。

We rely on you.

我们依靠你。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We have an episode all about jet lag and shift work for you, and for trying to maintain the best possible mental and physical health in the face of ongoing shift work and jet lag.

我们为您准备了一集关于时差和轮班工作的节目，以及在面对持续的轮班工作和时差时努力保持最佳的心理和身体健康。

You can find that episode on our website, hubermanlab.com, lots of behavioral tools, some other tools as well.

您可以在我们的网站 hubermanlab.com 上找到该剧集，其中有很多行为工具，还有一些其他工具。

Nonetheless, human beings are diurnal.

尽管如此，人类还是昼夜节律的。

We were really designed to be awake mostly in the day and asleep at night.

我们确实被设计为白天大部分时间醒着，晚上睡觉。

There are rare exceptions to this where people like to stay up late and sleep in late, but we are a diurnal species by way of our genetic wiring and our neural circuit wiring.

很少有例外，人们喜欢熬夜和睡得很晚，但从我们的基因线路和神经回路线路来看，我们是昼夜物种。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There's a particular feature to our diurnal, and diurnal meaning the opposite of nocturnal, our diurnal pattern of the release of a hormone called cortisol.

我们的昼夜活动有一个特殊的特征，而昼夜活动与夜间活动相反，我们的昼夜活动模式是释放一种叫做皮质醇的激素。

Cortisol is a stress hormone, it's sometimes called, but cortisol has a lot of other effects, many of which are positive.

皮质醇是一种压力荷尔蒙，有时也被称为皮质醇，但皮质醇还有很多其他作用，其中许多是积极的。

Cortisol, for instance, protects us against infection.

例如，皮质醇可以保护我们免受感染。

It can help us in terms of waking up in the morning.

它可以帮助我们早上醒来。

In fact, the pulse, as it's called, or the spike in cortisol early in the day is part of the reason we wake up.

事实上，所谓的脉搏，或者说是清晨皮质醇的峰值，是我们醒来的部分原因。

It's linked to our increase in temperature rhythms and can further increase our temperature, which leads to waking and so on.

它与我们体温节律的增加有关，可以进一步升高我们的体温，从而导致醒来等。

The typical pattern of cortisol in a healthy individual, and we really can say physically and emotionally healthy individual, is that cortisol is going to be somewhat high right around waking and then is going to be highest as it ever will be in the 24-hour period about 45 minutes postwaking, not exactly 45 minutes, but about 45 minutes.

健康个体（我们确实可以说身体和情绪健康的个体）的皮质醇典型模式是，在醒来时皮质醇会有些高，然后在醒来后约 45 分钟（不完全是 45 分钟，而是大约 45 分钟）的 24 小时内达到最高水平。

And then it will drop gradually, such that by about 4:00 p.m.

然后它会逐渐下降，到下午 4:00 左右。

in the afternoon, which is actually when body temperature tends to start to drop as well, cortisol tends to be very low, and then remains low in a healthy individual, such that at 9:00 p.m., it's very low.

下午，实际上也是体温开始下降的时候，皮质醇往往非常低，然后在健康个体中保持较低水平，例如晚上 9:00，皮质醇非常低。

And throughout the night as we sleep, it's very low.

整个晚上，当我们睡觉时，温度都非常低。

In fact, spikes or pulses in 9:00 p.m.

事实上，晚上 9:00 会出现尖峰或脉冲。

cortisol are a fairly reliable biomarker readout of certain forms of depression and chronic anxiety.

皮质醇是某些形式的抑郁症和慢性焦虑症的相当可靠的生物标志物读数。

This relates to the beautiful work of my colleagues at Stanford and Stanford School of Medicine, Dr. David Spiegel, who's been on this podcast, and Dr. Robert Sapolsky, who has also been on this podcast.

这与我在斯坦福大学和斯坦福大学医学院的同事们所做的出色工作有关，他们是参与这个播客的大卫·斯皮格尔博士和参与这个播客的罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There's a very interesting paper exploring the relationship between cortisol rhythms and grieving, in particular complicated versus noncomplicated grieving.

有一篇非常有趣的论文探讨了皮质醇节律与悲伤之间的关系，特别是复杂与非复杂悲伤之间的关系。

Again, complicated grieving being the form of grieving that reflects an immense challenge of people moving through the grieving process, such that it really needs to be dealt with, right?

再说一遍，复杂的悲伤是悲伤的一种形式，反映了人们在悲伤过程中面临的巨大挑战，因此确实需要处理，对吧？

Again grieving is healthy, but complicated grieving is a prolonged grieving, and has other dimensions as well.

同样，悲伤是健康的，但复杂的悲伤是一种长期的悲伤，并且还有其他方面。

Hence, the name "complicated." The title of this paper is "Diurnal cortisol in complicated and non-complicated grief: Slope differences across the day."

因此，名称为“复杂”。这篇论文的标题是“复杂和非复杂悲伤中的昼夜皮质醇：全天的斜率差异”。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And the figure to orient to in this paper if you do decide to check it out, and we'll put a link to it, is figure one, which beautifully shows, or I should say very clearly shows, that in individuals that are experiencing complicated grief, there's the same general contour of high cortisol upon waking, even higher about 45 minutes after waking.

如果您决定查看的话，本文中的图就是图一，我们将提供一个链接，它精美地显示，或者我应该说非常清楚地显示，在经历复杂悲伤的个体中，醒来时皮质醇水平相同，在醒来后约 45 分钟甚至更高。

And then a reduction in cortisol by 4:00 p.m., and even further reduction by 9:00 p.m.

然后，皮质醇在下午 4:00 之前降低，甚至在晚上 9:00 之前进一步降低。

So, just as it were in a typical individual or somebody who is a noncomplicated grieving.

所以，就像一个典型的个人或一个没有复杂悲伤的人一样。

However, when you compare the cortisol levels between people experiencing complicated grieving versus noncomplicated grieving, what you find is the 4:00 p.m.

然而，当您比较经历复杂悲伤的人和非复杂悲伤的人之间的皮质醇水平时，您会发现下午 4:00 是下午 4:00。

and 9:00 p.m.

和晚上 9:00

cortisol levels are significantly higher than they are in the noncomplicated grieving group.

皮质醇水平明显高于无并发症的悲伤组。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This raises a very interesting idea and relates very closely to what we were talking about with vagal tone.

这提出了一个非常有趣的想法，并且与我们正在谈论的迷走神经张力密切相关。

You could imagine a situation in which people who are experiencing complicated grief have higher levels of afternoon and nighttime cortisol because they are in complicated grief, but you could also imagine the opposite, that they're experiencing complicated grief because of the fact that they have elevated cortisol.

你可以想象这样一种情况，正在经历复杂悲伤的人下午和夜间的皮质醇水平较高，因为他们处于复杂的悲伤之中，但你也可以想象相反的情况，他们正在经历复杂的悲伤，因为他们的皮质醇水平升高。

Now, it's very likely that it's bidirectional, that the answer isn't one or the other but both, that complicated grief changes patterns of cortisol, and that patterns of cortisol change the likelihood that one has complicated grief.

现在，它很可能是双向的，答案不是一个或另一个，而是两者兼而有之，复杂的悲伤改变了皮质醇的模式，而皮质醇的模式改变了一个人患有复杂悲伤的可能性。

That's the most logical interpretation of data like these.

这是对此类数据最合乎逻辑的解释。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

However, when taken along with the data on vagal tone, that people who have a higher level of vagal tone are better able to navigate situations of the sort that we're talking about.

然而，当结合迷走神经张力的数据时，迷走神经张力水平较高的人能够更好地应对我们正在讨论的那种情况。

And that some people perhaps have oxytocin receptors, or patterns of catecholamines or epinephrine that position them to be more likely to grieve in a particular way.

有些人可能有催产素受体，或者儿茶酚胺或肾上腺素的模式，使他们更有可能以某种特定的方式悲伤。

We arrive at a scenario where it makes very good sense to think about modulating, that is controlling the foundation of your life in a way that establishes cortisol rhythms and sleep patterns, and patterns of autonomic arousal and catecholamine release, that position you to navigate the grief process in the best possible way.

我们面临这样一个场景，考虑调节是非常有意义的，即以建立皮质醇节律和睡眠模式以及自主唤醒和儿茶酚胺释放模式的方式控制你的生活基础，使你能够以最佳方式应对悲伤过程。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If that was a complicated mouthful to digest, let me restate it in a simpler way.

如果这听起来很复杂，难以消化，那么让我用更简单的方式重述一下。

If you are somebody who is heading into grief, or is challenged with grief, complicated grief or otherwise, prolonged grief or otherwise, getting adequate sleep at night and establishing as normal a pattern of cortisol as possible is going to be very important.

如果您正在陷入悲伤，或面临悲伤、复杂悲伤或其他情况、长期悲伤或其他情况的挑战，那么晚上获得充足的睡眠并尽可能建立正常的皮质醇模式将非常重要。

And there's a very simple, straightforward way to do this, and I apologize to the listeners of this podcast in advance if I sound like a repeating record, but the most powerful way to do this is to view sunlight very close to waking.

有一种非常简单、直接的方法可以做到这一点，如果我听起来像一个重复的唱片，我提前向这个播客的听众表示歉意，但最有效的方法是在非常接近醒来时观看阳光。

It does not have to be right at sunrise.

它不一定是在日出时。

But when you get up in the morning, if the sun isn't out, please turn on as many bright lights as possible in your environment.

但当你早上起床时，如果太阳还没有出来，请在你的环境中打开尽可能多的明亮灯光。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then once the sun is out, try and get some bright sunlight in your eyes.

然后，一旦太阳出来，试着让一些明亮的阳光照射到你的眼睛上。

Never look at any light so bright that it's painful to look at, sunlight or otherwise.

永远不要看任何明亮到让人感到痛苦的光线，无论是阳光还是其他光线。

If you live in an area of the world where there isn't a lot of sunlight, please keep in mind that sunlight coming through cloud cover is going to still be a very effective mechanism for establishing this cortisol rhythm.

如果您生活在世界上阳光不足的地区，请记住，穿过云层的阳光仍然是建立皮质醇节律的非常有效的机制。

Why do I say this thing about sunlight over and over and over again?

为什么我要一遍又一遍地谈论阳光呢？

Well, having an early-day cortisol peak and a very low cortisol level late in the day, 4:00 p.m.

嗯，皮质醇在清晨达到峰值，而在当天晚些时候（下午 4:00）皮质醇水平非常低。

and 9:00 p.m., is immensely beneficial.

晚上 9:00 非常有益。

It reflects a properly regulated autonomic nervous system.

它反映了自主神经系统的适当调节。

It means being alert during the day, and your ability to sleep at night is tightly correlated to this viewing of sunlight in the morning.

这意味着白天要保持警觉，而您晚上的睡眠能力与早上看到的阳光密切相关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If you have additional questions about this or these protocols, please see our mastering sleep episode, also at hubermanlab.com.

如果您对这个或这些协议还有其他疑问，请参阅我们的掌握睡眠章节，也位于 hubermanlab.com。

But in brief, you don't want to wear sunglasses when you do this.

但简而言之，执行此操作时您不想戴太阳镜。

You do not want to do this through a window, or a windshield.

您不想通过窗户或挡风玻璃执行此操作。

It is 50 times less effective, at least, because of filtering of the proper wavelengths.

由于过滤了适当的波长，其效率至少降低了 50 倍。

It is fine to wear eyeglasses, meaning corrective lenses or contacts, even if they have UV protection.

戴眼镜是可以的，即矫正镜片或隐形眼镜，即使它们具有紫外线防护功能。

Again, sunlight is best ten minutes to 30 minutes, depending on how bright it is outside and so on and so forth.

同样，阳光最好是十分钟到三十分钟，具体取决于外面的亮度等等。

I keep coming back to this protocol because, first of all, it is a zero-cost, but very effective way to regulate things like cortisol rhythms, melatonin rhythms, wakefulness during the day, ease of falling asleep at night and so on.

我不断回到这个协议，因为首先，它是一种零成本但非常有效的方法来调节皮质醇节律、褪黑激素节律、白天的清醒度、夜间入睡的容易程度等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And second of all, because I want to emphasize this idea of modulation.

其次，因为我想强调调制的想法。

There are processes in our brain and body which directly mediate some psychological effect or physiological effect, right?

我们的大脑和身体中有一些过程直接介导某些心理效应或生理效应，对吗？

Dopamine is directly involved in motivation.

多巴胺直接参与动机。

If you're somebody who struggles with motivation, your dopamine system is likely to be dysregulated in some way, and there are behavioral tools and other tools to adjust that.

如果你是一个在动力方面挣扎的人，你的多巴胺系统可能会以某种方式失调，并且有行为工具和其他工具可以调整它。

We had an episode on dopamine, motivation and drive that talks extensively about those tools.

我们有一集关于多巴胺、动机和动力，广泛讨论了这些工具。

However, the process of grief can't be distilled down to one molecule, one circuit, such that we can say, "Oh, you know, take this supplement or eat this diet, or exercise in the following way and you'll recover from grief more quickly."

然而，悲伤的过程不能被简化为一个分子、一个回路，这样我们就可以说，“哦，你知道，服用这种补充剂或吃这种饮食，或者按照以下方式锻炼，你会更快地从悲伤中恢复过来。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's simply not the case.

事实并非如此。

It is the case however that proper sleep at night sets the foundation for the proper emotional tone to be able to navigate physical, psychological, and other types of challenges.

然而，晚上适当的睡眠为适当的情绪基调奠定了基础，以便能够应对身体、心理和其他类型的挑战。

And not incidentally, sleep at night, I should say sufficient duration and quality of sleep at night, is the way in which you engage neuroplasticity, the reordering of neural connections.

并非偶然，晚上的睡眠，我应该说晚上充足的睡眠时间和质量，是你参与神经可塑性、神经连接重新排序的方式。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And everything we've been talking about today — about reordering of the maps in your mind, this tripartite three-part map of space, time and closeness — involves neuroplasticity, the reconfiguring of connections between neurons, strengthening certain pathways and not strengthening others, actively trying to disengage from the what if, this counterintuitive thinking, actively trying to disengage from the expectations that someone will be there.

我们今天所讨论的一切——关于你脑海中地图的重新排序，这张由空间、时间和亲密关系组成的三部分地图——涉及神经可塑性、神经元之间连接的重新配置、加强某些路径而不是加强其他路径、积极尝试摆脱“假设”这种违反直觉的思维，积极尝试摆脱对有人会在那里的期望。

Although when you find yourself doing that, understanding why it's so reflexive and normal to do that.

尽管当你发现自己这样做时，要理解为什么这样做是本能的、正常的。

Actively trying to lean into the real attachment to somebody, animal or thing and yet, at the same time, not diluting yourself and undermining the whole process of grieving by trying to imagine that they are in fact still truly there, right?

积极尝试建立对某人、动物或事物的真正依恋，但同时，不要试图想象他们实际上仍然真实存在，从而淡化自己并破坏整个悲伤的过程，对吧？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's a very narrow knife edge of a process, which is why it's so challenging.

这是一个非常狭窄的过程，这就是为什么它如此具有挑战性。

Regulating your cortisol rhythm through viewing sunlight early in the day, and I should also say avoiding bright lights from artificial sources in the evening, generally 10:00 p.m.

通过在一天中早些时候观察阳光来调节皮质醇节律，我还应该说，在晚上（通常是晚上 10:00）避免来自人造光源的强光。

to 4:00 a.m., but certainly in the evening, trying to dim lights in your immediate environment, trying to avoid bright screens, bright artificial lights as much as possible, and accessing that deep sleep.

到凌晨 4:00，但当然是晚上，尝试调暗周围环境的灯光，尽量避免明亮的屏幕、明亮的人造光，并进入深度睡眠。

That's modulating it, setting an overall autonomic state, or an overall autonomic landscape would be the better way to describe it, that's going to allow you to sleep and get neuroplasticity, sleep and be in the best emotional state to navigate the grieving process.

这就是调节它，设置一个整体的自主状态，或者一个整体的自主景观将是描述它的更好的方式，这将让你入睡并获得神经可塑性，睡眠并处于最佳的情绪状态来应对悲伤过程。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because it's only fair to say that the grieving process, as we're describing it is hard, and not just because it's emotionally hard — it's cognitively hard.

因为可以公平地说，正如我们所描述的那样，悲伤的过程是艰难的，不仅仅是因为它在情感上很困难，而且在认知上也很困难。

You just think about what's required to move through grief properly, if you will.

如果你愿意的话，你只需想想如何才能正确地度过悲伤。

It's thinking about and actually physically experiencing the depth, the full depth of the attachment to the person.

它是思考并实际体验对人的依恋的深度、全部深度。

While at the same time, trying to uncouple from that rich menu, that catalog of episodic memories that can date back many, many years and have so much richness, so many predictions form on the basis of those episodic memories, and actively trying to distance ourselves from those memories by being very anchored in the fact that we are present.

与此同时，试图从那个丰富的菜单中解脱出来，那个可以追溯到很多很多年前并且具有如此丰富的内容的情景记忆目录，如此多的预测是在这些情景记忆的基础上形成的，并积极地试图通过非常扎根于我们存在的事实来使自己与这些记忆保持距离。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We are the person alone in that room or, in some cases, with a bereavement group in that room, or with other people that are mourning the loss of that individual, animal or thing.

我们是那个房间里独自一人的人，或者在某些情况下，与一个失去亲人的人一起在那个房间里，或者与其他人一起哀悼失去那个人、动物或事物。

And that knife edge of feeling the intense attachment while also disengaging from all the things that led to that attachment.

感受到强烈的依恋，同时也摆脱所有导致这种依恋的事物。

Well, it's understandable why that would be so challenging.

嗯，这是可以理解的，为什么这会如此具有挑战性。

And it should also be understandable why positioning yourself to be able to do that in the best possible way requires proper sleep.

为什么要让自己能够以最好的方式做到这一点需要适当的睡眠，这也是可以理解的。

What are the tools that we can think about using in terms of healthy adaptive moving through grief, trying to avoid complicated grief and prolonged grief disorders?

我们可以考虑使用哪些工具来健康地适应悲伤，试图避免复杂的悲伤和长期的悲伤障碍？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Realize that word disorder implies all sorts of things, but again, those are just naming categorizations that people come up with that I think fairly reflect the fact that some people have more challenge moving through grieving than others.

意识到词序混乱意味着各种各样的事情，但同样，这些只是人们提出的命名分类，我认为公平地反映了这样一个事实，即有些人比其他人在经历悲伤时面临更多的挑战。

And for some people, it can be very extended.

对于某些人来说，它可以很长。

I think the common misunderstanding is that proper grieving involves moving through something quickly.

我认为常见的误解是，适当的悲伤意味着快速经历一些事情。

We're certainly not saying that.

我们当然不是这么说的。

However, it is very clear that some people can get stuck, and that process of getting stuck, you should now understand, has a lot to do with maintaining or reactivating those episodic memories, those expectations of where somebody will be in space and time.

然而，很明显，有些人可能会陷入困境，而你现在应该明白，陷入困境的过程与维持或重新激活那些情景记忆，以及对某人在空间和时间中的位置的期望有很大关系。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What can we say about the tools for moving through grief?

对于摆脱悲伤的工具我们能说些什么？

Clearly, it's a value to dedicate some period of time, perhaps every day, perhaps every other day, depending on your capacity and schedule.

显然，投入一段时间是有价值的，也许是每天，也许是每隔一天，这取决于你的能力和日程安排。

These could be periods of time ranging anywhere from five to 45 minutes, maybe longer.

这些时间段可能从 5 到 45 分钟不等，甚至可能更长。

These blocks of time would be appropriately described as rational grieving, right?

这些时间段可以被恰当地描述为理性悲伤，对吧？

Rational grieving is a clear acceptance of the new reality that the person, animal or thing no longer exists in the same space-time dimensionality that we knew them before, and yet holding onto and anchoring to the attachment that we had.

理性悲伤是对新现实的明确接受，即人、动物或事物不再存在于我们以前认识的同一时空维度中，但仍坚持并锚定我们所拥有的依恋。

This is, again, not an unhealthy anchoring to the attachment.

再说一次，这并不是一种不健康的依恋锚定。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This is really anchoring to the depth and the intensity of the attachment that existed, as a way to, for lack of a better way to put it, push off from those episodic memories, to distance ourselves from them, because those episodic memories are the ones that lead us to look for the person in our current reality.

这确实锚定了存在的依恋的深度和强度，作为一种方式，因为缺乏更好的方式来表达它，从那些情景记忆中推开，与它们保持距离，因为那些情景记忆是引导我们在当前现实中寻找那个人的记忆。

And assuming this is a real and complete loss, those sorts of expectations are maladaptive.

假设这是真正的、彻底的损失，那么这种期望就是不适应的。

They do not serve us well.

他们没有很好地为我们服务。

The second aspect of this is to understand that the node of the map, the component of the neural map that you're anchoring to, is a very real component of you.

第二个方面是要了解地图的节点，即您锚定的神经地图的组成部分，是您的一个非常真实的组成部分。

These are literally cells that represent the depth of attachment.

这些细胞实际上代表了依恋的深度。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

They are linked up with your emotional centers in the brain, and, indeed, they're linked up with your body.

它们与你大脑中的情感中心相连，事实上，它们也与你的身体相连。

I think one of the things that comes up so often when people are grieving is, Why does it hurt so much.

我认为，当人们悲伤时，经常出现的一件事是，为什么会这么痛。

Well, that hurt is that yearning.

嗯，那种伤害就是那种渴望。

It's that anticipation of action that you want to engage in, but some part of you at least knows that it leads nowhere.

你想要参与的是对行动的预期，但你的某些部分至少知道它不会有任何结果。

It's that reaching for that glass of water in a desert of thirst, and you know you can't have it.

就是在口渴的沙漠中伸手去拿那杯水，但你知道你无法得到它。

That's why it hurts so badly, because the systems of your brain and body are in a place of anticipation, of readiness.

这就是为什么它会如此疼痛，因为你的大脑和身体系统都处于期待和准备状态。

And given the activation of these brain-reward systems like the nucleus accumbens; given your now understanding of oxytocin being more enriched in the nucleus accumbens of some individuals, as opposed to others, it should make perfect sense as to why it's so painful in your body.

鉴于伏隔核等大脑奖励系统的激活；鉴于您现在了解催产素在某些人的伏核中比其他人更丰富，这应该完全可以理解为什么它在您的身体中如此痛苦。

We talked a moment ago about the importance of accessing quality sleep on a regular basis; gave you at least one tool to do that.

刚才我们谈到了定期获得优质睡眠的重要性；至少给了你一个工具来做到这一点。

There are, again, a rich array of tools to do that in the mastering sleep episode, and, again, highlighting the importance of sleep for not just emotion regulation and autonomic control, which is so vital, but also for making sure that neuroplasticity takes place.

在掌握睡眠过程中，有一系列丰富的工具可以做到这一点，并且再次强调睡眠不仅对于情绪调节和自主控制至关重要，而且对于确保神经可塑性的发生也很重要。

Because again, neuroplasticity is a two-part process.

因为神经可塑性是一个由两部分组成的过程。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There's the triggering of the plasticity, which in the case of the things we're talking about today, will be naturally activated by the practice of a dedicated focusing on the attachment, feeling the attachment to the person, maybe even writing about the attachment to the person as was described in that previous study, but also just ...

这是可塑性的触发，就我们今天讨论的事情而言，它会通过专注于依恋的练习而自然地激活，感受对人的依恋，甚至可能像之前的研究中描述的那样写下对人的依恋，但也只是……

the plasticity is triggered by the mere loss of that person, the intensity of that experience.

可塑性是由失去那个人、那种经历的强度而引发的。

But neuroplasticity, the literal rewiring of connections, occurs during deep sleep and in what I call non-sleep deep rest, or NSDR.

但神经可塑性，即字面上的连接重新布线，发生在深度睡眠期间，以及我所说的非睡眠深度休息（NSDR）中。

And you can find NSDR scripts.

您还可以找到 NSDR 脚本。

These are short behavioral protocols that you do for 10 to 30 minutes at some point throughout the day, maybe even multiple times through day, that have been shown to accelerate neuroplasticity.

这些是简短的行为方案，您可以在一天中的某个时间执行 10 到 30 分钟，甚至可能在一天中执行多次，已被证明可以加速神经可塑性。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, having such a practice can be very useful, and understand that it involves some cognitive work.

因此，进行这样的练习可能非常有用，并且要了解它涉及一些认知工作。

We have to hold onto the attachment and imagine, and feel, as much as we can, the attachment, while also being extremely rationally grounded and trying to not try to hold onto the past, trying to not anticipate the person walking in the room.

我们必须抓住这种依恋，尽可能多地想象和感受这种依恋，同时也要极其理性地扎根，尽量不要试图抓住过去，尽量不要去预料走进房间的人。

This is very hard because when we think about the attachment, the attachment tends to drag with it those episodic memories, that rich catalog of experiences.

这是非常困难的，因为当我们想到依恋时，依恋往往会拖拽那些情景记忆，那些丰富的经历。

The expectation that they will walk in the room is perfectly natural.

他们会走进房间的期望是非常自然的。

The hard cognitive work is to experience the deep emotional attachment.

艰苦的认知工作是体验深厚的情感依恋。

While at the same time, severing from or distancing ourselves from these expectations that they'll suddenly show up in our reality.

同时，与这些突然出现在我们现实中的期望断绝或疏远。

When in fact, they won't.

事实上，他们不会。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And we talked about preparing ourselves for grief, right?

我们谈到了为悲伤做好准备，对吧？

If we have a loved one that's dying, or we anticipate that at some point, we are going to have a loss of some sort, could be death, could be a loss of another type, breakup, et cetera that we can prepare ourselves to grieve more adaptively by regulating the level of catecholamines, in particular epinephrine; that was well described in the study that I referred to earlier.

如果我们有一个即将去世的亲人，或者我们预计在某个时候，我们将遭受某种形式的损失，可能是死亡，也可能是另一种类型的损失，分手等等，我们可以通过调节儿茶酚胺，特别是肾上腺素的水平，让自己做好准备，以更适应性的方式应对悲伤；我之前提到的研究对此进行了很好的描述。

And tools such as the one found in our mastering stress episode and tools of the sort that we talked about today, increasing that vagal tone by actively building up the relationship between exhales and slowing down of the heart rate, so-called respiratory sinus arrhythmia, those things could be very useful tools.

诸如我们在控制压力发作中发现的工具和我们今天讨论的那种工具，通过积极建立呼气和减慢心率之间的关系来增加迷走神经张力，即所谓的呼吸性窦性心律失常，这些东西可能是非常有用的工具。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We can actually encourage our nervous system and build our nervous system, and build our mind to prepare for grief when it inevitably will come.

实际上，我们可以鼓励我们的神经系统，建立我们的神经系统，并建立我们的思想，为悲伤不可避免地到来时做好准备。

Again, this is not about buffering ourselves from the realities of life.

再说一次，这并不是为了让我们免受现实生活的影响。

This is not about engaging from grief as a real and important process, and, indeed, it is a real and important process to engage in.

这并不是说摆脱悲伤是一个真实而重要的过程，事实上，这是一个真实而重要的过程。

Those that enter denial or try and distract themselves with substances, or thinking, or distracting of your behavior, substances or otherwise, won't move through grief as well, as adaptively as those who embrace a process of the sort that I'm describing here.

那些否认或试图用物质、思考或分散自己的行为、物质或其他方式分散自己注意力的人，也不会像那些接受我在这里描述的那种过程的人那样适应性地度过悲伤。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And of course, I want to restate again that even though grief and depression are now known to be fundamentally different, even though people move through the different stages of grief at different rates and sometimes skip stages, et cetera it is often important to access a trained professional psychologist or psychiatrist, or both, or bereavement group, or all of the above, in order to get the proper support for grieving.

当然，我想再次重申，尽管现在人们知道悲伤和抑郁有本质上的不同，尽管人们以不同的速度经历悲伤的不同阶段，有时甚至跳过阶段等等，但为了获得悲伤的适当支持，寻求训练有素的专业心理学家或精神科医生，或两者，或丧亲团体，或以上所有人员的帮助通常很重要。

This is a podcast about science and science-based tools, but I absolutely want to emphasize that there are terrific resources out there that you can access.

这是一个关于科学和基于科学的工具的播客，但我绝对想强调的是，您可以访问很多很棒的资源。

I don't say this in any kind of glib or pass-the-buck kind of way.

我这么说并不是以任何油嘴滑舌或推卸责任的方式。

There are wonderful trained therapists, bereavement groups, psychiatrists that are expert in navigating these sorts of things.

有训练有素的优秀治疗师、丧亲团体、精神科医生，他们都是解决此类问题的专家。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I like to think that the tools that we've talked about today would be not only compatible, but would be complementary to the sorts of approaches that they take.

我认为我们今天讨论的工具不仅是兼容的，而且是对它们所采用的各种方法的补充。

And as we think about this process of grief, as we all should at some point in our lives, because we all, indeed, will experience grief in one form or another, I would hope that the information that we discussed today would not only give you some tools, but hopefully give you a better understanding of not just the people that you've lost, or that you stand to lose, not just the animals that you've lost and stand to lose, but also give you a sense of why it is that the people who are still in your life and that you're attached to, the animals that are still in your life that you're attached to, have such profound meaning for you.

当我们思考这个悲伤的过程时，正如我们所有人在生命中的某个时刻都应该思考的那样，因为我们所有人确实都会经历某种形式的悲伤，我希望我们今天讨论的信息不仅能给你一些工具，而且希望能让你更好地理解，不仅是你失去的人，或者你即将失去的人，不仅仅是你已经失去和即将失去的动物，而且还让你了解为什么那些仍然在你生命中的人和你正在失去的人。依恋，仍然存在于你生活中的你所依恋的动物，对你来说具有如此深刻的意义。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And I would encourage you to not lean away from, but rather to lean into the building of those episodic memories, to build up a richer and richer set of experiences and emotional attachments.

我鼓励你不要逃避，而是要努力构建那些情景记忆，建立越来越丰富的经历和情感依恋。

Because while the process of grieving is in direct relation to how close we are attached to people, there are ways to move through it.

因为虽然悲伤的过程与我们与人的亲密程度直接相关，但有一些方法可以度过这个过程。

And of course, it is the depth of our attachments and the number and the depth of meaning of experiences that we share with others and with animals that makes life so rich and worth living.

当然，正是我们依恋的深度，以及我们与他人和动物分享的经验的数量和意义的深度，使生活变得如此丰富和值得过。

I just want to take a moment and say thank you for being willing to explore this rather complicated and sometimes extremely challenging thing that we call grief from the perspective, or through the lens, of neuroscience and psychology.

我只是想花一点时间对您表示感谢，感谢您愿意从神经科学和心理学的角度或镜头来探索这个相当复杂且有时极具挑战性的事情，我们称之为悲伤。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I certainly learned a lot in exploring this literature.

我在探索这些文献的过程中确实学到了很多东西。

I also really look forward to hosting people like Dr. O'Connor on the podcast, and others on the podcast who've done such beautiful work in this area.

我也非常期待在播客中接待像奥康纳博士这样的人，以及播客中在该领域做出如此出色工作的其他人。

I've put out the request, and hopefully they'll join us soon to further elaborate and teach us about this fundamental component of our lives.

我已经提出了请求，希望他们很快就能加入我们，进一步阐述并教导我们生活中的这一基本组成部分。

If you are learning from it or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to us on YouTube.

如果您正在从中学习或喜欢这个播客，请在 YouTube 上订阅我们。

That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.

这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。

In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on Spotify and Apple.

此外，请订阅 Spotify 和 Apple 上的播客。

And at both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.

在 Spotify 和 Apple，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If you have comments and suggestions, feedback, or you'd like to see a particular guest on this podcast, please put those suggestions, comments, and feedback in the comments section on YouTube.

如果您有意见、建议、反馈，或者您希望在此播客中看到特定嘉宾，请将这些建议、意见和反馈放入 YouTube 的评论部分。

In addition, please check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning of today's podcast.

另外，请查看今天播客开头提到的赞助商。

That's the best way to support us.

这是支持我们的最好方式。

Not during today's episode, but on many previous episodes of the Huberman Lab podcast, we've discussed supplements.

不是在今天的节目中，而是在 Huberman Lab 播客的许多之前的节目中，我们讨论了补充剂。

While supplements aren't necessary for everybody, many people derive tremendous benefit from them for things like easing and accelerating the transition time into sleep and getting better, deeper sleep, as well as things such as focus, et cetera.

虽然补充剂并不是每个人都需要的，但许多人从它们中获得了巨大的好处，例如缓解和加速进入睡眠的过渡时间、获得更好、更深的睡眠，以及注意力等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We've partnered with Momentous supplements, because Momentous supplements first of all are extremely high quality.

我们与 Momentous 补充剂合作，因为 Momentous 补充剂首先质量非常高。

That's obviously important.

这显然很重要。

Also, they ship internationally.

此外，他们还进行国际运输。

We had heard from many of you that you were having trouble accessing some of the supplements that were described on the Huberman Lab podcast because you did not live in the U.S. Momentous ships both within the U.S. and abroad.

我们从你们中的许多人那里听说，你们在获取 Huberman Lab 播客中描述的一些补充剂时遇到了困难，因为你们并不居住在美国境内和国外的美国重大船舶上。

And many of you have also requested that there be a single site where you could access all of the supplements that we've talked about on the Huberman Lab podcast.

你们中的许多人还要求有一个网站，您可以在其中访问我们在 Huberman 实验室播客上讨论过的所有补充品。

Right now at livemomentous.com/huberman, you can find a subset of the supplements that have been described on this podcast.

现在，您可以在 livemomentous.com/huberman 找到此播客中描述的补充品的子集。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Again, all of the very highest quality, each single-ingredient supplements — that turns out to be very important if you're trying to develop the proper array of supplements for you.

再次强调，所有最高品质、每种单一成分的补充剂 - 如果您想为自己开发合适的补充剂系列，那么这一点非常重要。

It's not helpful to have supplements that include many ingredients.

服用含有多种成分的补充剂是没有帮助的。

So, we encourage Momentous to have single-ingredient supplements with dosages that allow you to build up from the minimal effective dose and so on, and the catalog of supplements they're going to add to that location, livemomentous.com/huberman, is going to expand in the weeks and months to come.

因此，我们鼓励 Momentous 提供单一成分的补充剂，其剂量允许您从最小有效剂量等开始累积，并且他们将添加到该位置的补充剂目录，livemomentous.com/huberman，将在未来几周和几个月内扩大。

And we expect that in fairly short amount of time, all of the supplements that we've described on the Huberman Lab podcast will be there.

我们预计，在相当短的时间内，我们在 Huberman 实验室播客上描述的所有补充剂都会出现。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If you're not already following Huberman Lab on Instagram and Twitter, I post science and science-related tools at Huberman Lab on Instagram, also at Huberman Lab on Twitter.

如果您还没有在 Instagram 和 Twitter 上关注 Huberman Lab，我会在 Instagram 和 Twitter 上发布 Huberman Lab 的科学和科学相关工具。

Oftentimes, that material will overlap somewhat with the content covered on this podcast.

通常，该材料会与该播客所涵盖的内容有所重叠。

But more often than not, what I'm covering on Instagram and Twitter is distinct from the information I cover on the Huberman Lab podcast.

但通常情况下，我在 Instagram 和 Twitter 上报道的内容与我在 Huberman Lab 播客上报道的信息不同。

We also have a newsletter that has summaries of podcasts and points to specific protocols, and links that could be useful to you.

我们还有一份时事通讯，其中包含播客摘要并指向特定协议，以及可能对您有用的链接。

That is the Neural Network Newsletter, and you can find it at Hubermanlab.com.

这就是《神经网络通讯》，您可以在 Hubermanlab.com 上找到它。

Go to the menu, go to "newsletter." You can sign up simply by giving us your email.

转到菜单，转到“时事通讯”。您只需向我们提供您的电子邮件即可注册。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We do not share your email with anybody else.

我们不会与其他人分享您的电子邮件。

Our privacy policy is there, and is made very clear.

我们的隐私政策就在那里，并且非常明确。

You can also see some newsletters of months' past.

您还可以查看过去几个月的一些时事通讯。

So, you can assess whether or not you really do want to sign up, although I like to think that you will.

因此，您可以评估自己是否真的想注册，尽管我认为您会这样做。

Again, zero cost, total privacy of your email account, and many people find those summaries and takeaway tools to be very useful in navigating these admittedly long podcast episodes.

同样，零成本、电子邮件帐户的完全隐私，许多人发现这些摘要和外卖工具在浏览这些公认的长播客节目时非常有用。

And last, but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.

最后但同样重要的是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。

PART 3 OF 3 ENDS

第 3 部分（共 3 部分）结束