The Most Effective Weight Training, Cardio & Nutrition for Women | Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
As a woman, if I honestly thought there were things we should do differently to optimize our results, of course, I would be doing them myself and telling other women to do them, too.
作为一名女性，如果我真的认为我们应该做一些不同的事情来优化我们的结果，当然，我会自己做这些事情，并告诉其他女性也这样做。
The narrative that women need a sex-specific program or nutrient timing guidance or a particular intensity of exercise or rep range or all of it, it makes women feel like they're being spoken to and being considered, and they're part of this community instead of, "Oh, just do what your boyfriend does," or what your husband does.
女性需要针对特定性别的计划或营养时间指导或特定强度的运动或重复范围或所有这些的叙述，这让女性感觉她们正在与她们交谈并被考虑，她们是这个社区的一部分，而不是“哦，就做你男朋友做的事”或你丈夫做的事。
So the narrative is very much women are not men, and so obviously women need something different.
因此，人们的叙述很大程度上是女性不是男性，因此显然女性需要一些不同的东西。
The data says men and women respond to exercise very similarly.
数据显示，男性和女性对运动的反应非常相似。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple.
今天我的客人是劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士。
She holds a PhD in integrative physiology and is a certified strength and conditioning specialist.
她拥有综合生理学博士学位，并且是经过认证的体能专家。
She is an expert in both the science and practice of building muscle and strength, cardiovascular fitness, and the relationship between hormones and exercise.
她是增强肌肉和力量、心血管健康以及激素与运动之间关系的科学和实践方面的专家。
Today's discussion is focused on fitness for women and how it overlaps directly with the same things that men should do for their fitness.
今天的讨论重点是女性健身，以及它如何与男性健身应该做的事情直接重叠。
Therefore, today's discussion is relevant to both women and men.
因此，今天的讨论对女性和男性都有意义。
Dr. Colenso-Semple explains how to structure your ideal training routine according to the time you have available and your health and fitness goals.
Colenso-Semple 博士解释了如何根据您的可用时间以及您的健康和健身目标来构建理想的训练计划。
She also clearly explains what the science says about if and when women's hormone cycles, life stages such as menopause, and things like birth control should actually impact how women should train and when.
她还清楚地解释了科学关于女性荷尔蒙周期是否以及何时、更年期等生命阶段以及节育等因素实际上应该影响女性应该如何训练以及何时训练的说法。
As we all know, information about best practices for fitness, nutrition, and health are hotly debated online.
众所周知，有关健身、营养和健康最佳实践的信息在网上引起了激烈的争论。
Dr. Colenso-Semple has become one of the most trusted voices for explaining what the science says about women's specific fitness, as well as for delivering clear, actionable evidence for protocols that work in the real world.
科伦索-森普尔博士已成为最值得信赖的声音之一，他解释了科学对女性特定健康的看法，并为现实世界中有效的方案提供了清晰、可操作的证据。
It was a true honor and pleasure to host her on the podcast.
能够在播客上接待她真是我的荣幸和高兴。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors.
为了与这个主题保持一致，今天的节目确实有赞助商。
And now for my discussion with Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple.
现在我与 Lauren Colenso-Semple 博士进行讨论。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple, welcome.
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士，欢迎光临。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Very excited to have you here.
很高兴你能来到这里。
To kick things off, is there anything fundamentally different about muscle tissue in men and women?
首先，男性和女性的肌肉组织有什么根本不同吗？
And if not at the cellular level, in terms of the hormone receptors that they express or the hormones that they're exposed to in a way that should change people's behavior about how to exercise.
即使不是在细胞水平上，就它们表达的激素受体或它们接触的激素而言，它们应该会改变人们的锻炼行为。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
When we look at how the muscle responds, so we look at muscle protein synthesis in response to exercise or nutrition, there are no differences.
当我们观察肌肉如何反应时，即我们观察肌肉蛋白质合成对运动或营养的反应时，没有任何差异。
Very similar protein metabolism response, very similar growth response.
非常相似的蛋白质代谢反应，非常相似的生长反应。
The major difference, and this is hormone related, is the baseline muscularity, because during puberty, when men experience a surge in testosterone, that coincides with an increase in muscle mass.
主要的差异（与激素相关）是基线肌肉强度，因为在青春期，当男性睾酮水平激增时，肌肉质量也随之增加。
So if you take an untrained adult man and an untrained adult woman, there will be a disparity in their baseline muscle mass, and that is due to differences in testosterone.
因此，如果你选取一个未经训练的成年男性和一个未经训练的成年女性，他们的基线肌肉质量将会存在差异，这是由于睾丸激素的差异造成的。
However, once they start training, they will gain similar relative size.
然而，一旦他们开始训练，他们就会获得相似的相对大小。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So not that I'm suggesting people get into competitive bodybuilding and use steroids, although some people might make that their life choice.
因此，我并不是建议人们参加竞技健美比赛并使用类固醇，尽管有些人可能会以此为人生选择。
The vast majority of people won't.
绝大多数人不会。
But if we were to look at female bodybuilders at any point in the last 30 years or so, it's very clear that with chemical augmentation, which is typically increasing testosterone or some testosterone-like derivative, that women can achieve a very impressive level of muscularity that in many ways rivals what certainly men who are not taking anabolic steroids can achieve.
但如果我们观察过去 30 年左右的女性健美运动员，就会发现，通过化学增肌（通常是增加睾酮或某种睾酮样衍生物），女性可以达到非常令人印象深刻的肌肉水平，在很多方面可以与不服用合成代谢类固醇的男性相媲美。
What does that tell us?
这告诉我们什么？
The fact that the addition of androgens, testosterone, and testosterone-like derivatives can take female musculature and make it look essentially like male musculature.
事实上，添加雄激素、睾酮和睾酮样衍生物可以使女性肌肉组织看起来基本上像男性肌肉组织。
Does that tell us anything interesting that informs the non-steroid user, the non-bodybuilder?
这是否告诉我们任何有趣的事情可以告知非类固醇使用者、非健美运动员？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Not so much because we're talking about those supraphysiological levels, and that's the real game changer.
不那么重要，因为我们正在谈论那些超生理水平，而这才是真正的游戏规则改变者。
So if we think about even with men, what is the normal range of testosterone, we don't see this relationship between, oh, you're closer to 900 and you are going to respond better to resistance training.
因此，如果我们考虑一下，即使是男性，睾丸激素的正常范围是多少，我们也不会看到，哦，你接近 900 和你对阻力训练的反应会更好之间存在这种关系。
So as long as you're within that wide normal range, there doesn't seem to be a predictability of your response to training.
因此，只要您处于较宽的正常范围内，您对训练的反应似乎就无法预测。
However, once we get into those supraphysiological levels and we're taking that exogenous hormone, then yes, we are going to develop levels of muscularity that wouldn't necessarily be possible.
然而，一旦我们进入超生理水平并且我们服用外源性激素，那么是的，我们将发展出不一定可能的肌肉水平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You said several things very interesting.
你说了几件事非常有趣。
If I understood correctly, if a male is somewhere in the reference range, so typically I believe that's somewhere between 300 nanograms per deciliter and 900 nanograms per deciliter, maybe in some countries it goes up to 1,200.
如果我理解正确的话，如果男性处于参考范围内，那么我通常认为该值介于 300 纳克/分升和 900 纳克/分升之间，也许在某些国家/地区可能会达到 1,200。
But in any case, that a male with 400 nanogram per deciliter testosterone versus 600, it's not as if the male with 600 can make ...
但无论如何，睾酮水平为 400 纳克/分升的男性与 600 纳克/分升睾酮水平的男性相比，睾酮水平为 600 纳克/分升的男性并不可能......
that much more muscle growth.
更多的肌肉生长。
And the same is true for women?
对于女性来说也是如此吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
That's right.
没错。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So as long as you're within that broad normal range, and of course, what's normal for you differs from what's normal for someone else.
因此，只要您处于广泛的正常范围内，当然，您的正常范围与其他人的正常范围不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So if there are changes that might impact you because now you're below what is your normal, then that can manifest in a variety of ways, but there isn't this clear linear relationship where we would say, "Oh, let's measure your testosterone.
因此，如果出现可能影响您的变化，因为您现在的水平低于正常水平，那么这可能会以多种方式体现出来，但不存在这种明确的线性关系，我们会说，“哦，让我们测量一下您的睾酮水平。
You are going to be a hard gainer," or, "You're going to put on mass really easily."
你将成为一个很难增重的人，”或者，“你将很容易增加体重。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If we were to just look at people who are not chemically augmented in any way, not know their testosterone in any way, and here I'm referring to women specifically, how much individual variation is there, or what's known about the individual variation among women in terms of the amount of potential to grow muscle and strength?
如果我们只观察那些没有以任何方式进行化学增强的人，不以任何方式了解他们的睾丸激素，在这里我特别指的是女性，那么存在多少个体差异，或者就增长肌肉和力量的潜力而言，女性之间的个体差异是多少？
Is it true that some women have a much greater potential to build muscle mass that's independent of their testosterone levels?
某些女性是否具有更大的增肌潜力，且与她们的睾丸激素水平无关？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I'd say yes, it's independent of the testosterone levels, but we're going to start with different baselines, and then it depends on the stimulus that you are using for growth.
我想说是的，它与睾酮水平无关，但我们将从不同的基线开始，然后取决于您用于增长的刺激。
And some people are adapting to that growth stimulus to a greater extent than others, but part of that is effective, consistent, progressive training, and then part of it is arguably some genetic factors.
有些人比其他人更能适应这种成长刺激，但其中一部分是有效的、持续的、渐进的训练，还有一部分可以说是一些遗传因素。
But when we even look at the molecular level, say fiber type differences, we see adaptation in both sexes that is quite dramatic.
但当我们甚至在分子水平上观察时，比如纤维类型的差异，我们发现两性的适应都是相当戏剧性的。
And that tells us that both men and women have the potential for large adaptations in either direction, whether we're saying to endurance type training or resistance type training.
这告诉我们，无论是耐力型训练还是阻力型训练，男性和女性都具有在任一方向进行较大适应的潜力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I would like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Joovv.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Joovv。
Joovv makes medical grade red light therapy devices.
Joovv 生产医疗级红光治疗设备。
Now, if there's one thing that I have consistently emphasized on this podcast is the incredible impact that light can have on our biology and our health.
现在，如果我在这个播客中一直强调一件事，那就是光对我们的生物学和健康产生的令人难以置信的影响。
Now, in addition to sunlight, which I've talked about a lot on this podcast, red light, near-infrared, and infrared light have been specifically shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of cellular and organ health.
现在，除了我在这个播客中多次谈论的阳光之外，红光、近红外光和红外光已被具体证明对改善细胞和器官健康的许多方面具有积极作用。
These include faster muscle recovery, improved skin health, wound healing, improvements in acne, reduced pain and inflammation, improved mitochondrial function, and even improvements in vision.
这些包括更快的肌肉恢复、改善皮肤健康、伤口愈合、改善痤疮、减少疼痛和炎症、改善线粒体功能，甚至改善视力。
Nowadays, there are a lot of red light devices out there, but what sets Joovv lights apart, and why they're my preferred red light therapy device, is that they use clinically proven wavelengths, meaning they use the specific wavelengths of red light, near-infrared, and infrared light in combination to trigger the optimal cellular adaptations.
如今，市面上有很多红光设备，但 Joovv 灯的与众不同之处以及它们成为我首选红光治疗设备的原因在于它们使用经过临床验证的波长，这意味着它们结合使用特定波长的红光、近红外光和红外光来触发最佳的细胞适应。
Personally, I use the Joovv whole body panel about three to four times a week, usually for about 10 to 20 minutes per session, and I use the Joovv handheld light both at home and when I travel.
就我个人而言，我每周使用 Joovv 全身面板大约三到四次，通常每次大约 10 到 20 分钟，并且我在家和旅行时都使用 Joovv 手持灯。
If you would like to try Joovv, they're offering up to $400 off select products for listeners of this podcast.
如果您想尝试 Joovv，他们将为该播客的听众提供精选产品高达 400 美元的折扣。
To learn more, visit Joovv, spelled J-O-O-V-V, .com/huberman.
要了解更多信息，请访问 Joovv，拼写为 J-O-O-V-V，.com/huberman。
Again, that's J-O-O-V-V, .com/huberman.
再说一次，这是 J-O-O-V-V，.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep.
今天的节目也是八觉给我们带来的。
Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.
August Sleep 生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能的智能床垫套。
One of the best ways to ensure you get a great night's sleep is to make sure that the temperature of your sleeping environment is correct.
确保您睡个好觉的最佳方法之一是确保睡眠环境的温度正确。
And that's because in order to fall asleep and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about one to three degrees.
这是因为为了入睡并保持深度睡眠，您的体温实际上必须下降约一到三度。
And in order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature actually has to increase by about one to three degrees.
为了醒来时感觉神清气爽、精力充沛，您的体温实际上必须升高约一到三度。
Eight Sleep automatically regulates the temperature of your bed throughout the night according to your unique needs.
八睡眠会根据您的独特需求自动调节整个晚上的床温。
I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for nearly five years now, and it has completely transformed and improved the quality of my sleep.
我已经睡在八睡眠床垫罩上近五年了，它彻底改变并改善了我的睡眠质量。
The latest Eight Sleep model is the Pod 5.
最新的八睡眠型号是 Pod 5。
This is what I'm now sleeping on, and I absolutely love it.
这就是我现在睡觉的地方，我非常喜欢它。
It has so many incredible features.
它有很多令人难以置信的功能。
For instance, the Pod 5 has a feature called Autopilot, which is an AI engine that learns your sleep patterns and then adjusts the temperature of your sleeping environment across different sleep stages.
例如，Pod 5有一个名为Autopilot的功能，这是一个人工智能引擎，可以学习你的睡眠模式，然后在不同的睡眠阶段调整你的睡眠环境温度。
It'll even elevate your head if you're snoring, and it makes other shifts to optimize your sleep.
如果您打鼾，它甚至会抬高您的头部，并进行其他转换以优化您的睡眠。
If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, go to eightsleep.com/huberman to get up to $350 off the new Pod 5.
如果您想尝试八睡眠，请访问八睡眠.com/huberman，新款 Pod 5 最高可享受 350 美元优惠。
Eight Sleep ships to many countries worldwide, including Mexico and the UAE.
八号睡眠船运往世界各地的许多国家，包括墨西哥和阿联酋。
Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $350.
同样，访问八睡眠.com/huberman 最多可节省 350 美元。
I want to put aside the use of exogenous testosterone therapy, although we can return to that a little bit later because it seems to be a popular theme in women's health circles now, especially in the perimenopause and menopause conversation.
我想把外源性睾酮疗法的使用放在一边，尽管我们可以稍后再回到这个话题，因为它似乎是现在女性健康界的一个流行主题，特别是在围绝经期和更年期的谈话中。
But it's well known from studies, I believe that were exclusively carried out in men, that training a certain way, sprints, resistance training, and we talk about exactly how, can increase circulating testosterone in meaningful ways that can feed back on psychology and can feed back on growth and strength development, et cetera.
但从研究中众所周知，我相信这些研究都是在男性中进行的，以某种方式进行训练，冲刺，阻力训练，以及我们确切讨论的方法，可以以有意义的方式增加循环睾酮，可以反馈心理，可以反馈生长和力量发展等等。
Have the same studies been carried out in women?
在女性中也进行过同样的研究吗？
In other words, if a woman lifts weights in a certain manner for 45 minutes or 60 minutes, do we expect a big surge in her circulating levels of testosterone?
换句话说，如果一名女性以某种方式举重 45 分钟或 60 分钟，我们是否会期望她的循环睾酮水平大幅上升？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Well, the circulating levels are already quite low, and one of the issues here is that the way testosterone has been measured in women for a very long time is such that the assays are not capable of detecting some of these normal low levels.
嗯，循环水平已经相当低了，这里的问题之一是，很长一段时间以来测量女性睾酮的方式使得检测无法检测到一些正常的低水平。
So we know a lot less about those lower circulating levels of testosterone in women than I think People acknowledge.
因此，我们对女性睾酮循环水平较低的了解比我认为人们所承认的要少得多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
But more importantly, that acute response to exercise, that increase in post-exercise testosterone, growth hormone, et cetera, people used to think that was the driver of hypertrophy.
但更重要的是，对运动的敏锐反应，运动后睾酮、生长激素等的增加，人们过去认为这是肥大的驱动因素。
And so there were all of these training styles to sort of maximize that response.
因此，所有这些训练方式都可以最大限度地提高这种反应。
And so people would promote high-rep training or super sets, and they'd say, "Oh, this is going to really maximize that response." But what we know now is that response, although acutely, it's not the driver of growth long term.
因此，人们会提倡高次数训练或超级组，他们会说，“哦，这真的会最大限度地提高反应。”但我们现在知道的是，这种反应虽然很尖锐，但它并不是长期增长的驱动力。
And so it doesn't really make sense to chase that short-term response because it's not predictive of longer-term adaptation.
因此，追求短期反应并没有意义，因为它不能预测长期适应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Until fairly recently, women doing resistance training, especially heavy for them, somewhere between 70 and 90% of a one-rep max or even a one-rep max, so heavy for them-
直到最近，女性进行阻力训练，对她们来说特别重，大约是一次最大次数的 70% 到 90%，甚至是一次最大次数，对她们来说太重了——
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
was scary for a lot of women.
对很多女性来说都是可怕的。
I've women in my family, and they're like, "I don't want to lift weights.
我家里有女性，她们会说，“我不想举重。
I don't want to get too big." This was a common statement.
我不想变得太大。”这是一个常见的说法。
What do you think changed?
你认为改变了什么？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I think part of it was the introduction of the bikini category in competitive bodybuilding, because that was a level of muscularity that people didn't look at and say, "Oh, that's bulky." That was, "Oh, she looks good in a bikini." And so people wanted to look like that, realized that they needed to lift weights to do it, and it kind of opened up a door for resistance training being more feminine.
我认为部分原因是在竞技健美中引入了比基尼类别，因为人们不会看到这种肌肉水平并说：“哦，那太笨重了。”那就是，“哦，她穿比基尼很好看。”所以人们希望看起来像那样，意识到他们需要举重才能做到这一点，这为阻力训练变得更加女性化打开了大门。
I think that in combination with the introduction of more group fitness that had resistance training components, CrossFit, which a lot of women were drawn to, I think all of that has made women feel more empowered to lift weights and less fearful of the results.
我认为，结合引入更多具有阻力训练成分的团体健身和 CrossFit（吸引了很多女性），我认为所有这些都让女性感觉更有能力举重，并且不再那么担心结果。
Although, I think there is still a sentiment in some circles that lifting weights or lifting too heavy is going to make you huge instead of, quote-unquote, "toned." Also, where are all of these bulky women?
尽管如此，我认为在某些圈子里仍然存在一种观点，认为举重或举得太重会让你变得巨大，而不是“健美”。还有，这些身材魁梧的女人都在哪里？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
How often do you walk down the street and see an incredibly jacked woman?
你有多少次走在街上，看到一个被打扮得难以置信的女人？
It's very, very rare.
这是非常非常罕见的。
And so clearly, no one is getting huge by accident.
很明显，没有人的成长是偶然的。
You're not getting extremely muscular without working really, really hard and often incorporating some pharmacological help.
如果不非常非常努力地锻炼并且经常结合一些药物的帮助，你就不会变得非常肌肉发达。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For a woman who's not currently doing resistance training, maybe we could talk to her for a second.
对于目前没有进行阻力训练的女性，也许我们可以和她谈谈。
At what age is too early for a woman to do resistance training?
女性多大年龄开始进行抗阻训练为时过早？
What does the data say?
数据说明了什么？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I think as a cultural stereotype that at least in high school, the girls didn't belong in the weight room.
我认为作为一种文化刻板印象，至少在高中，女孩不属于举重室。
That was certainly my experience growing up.
这当然是我的成长经历。
Now I think that's shifting, and so it's not that it's unsafe, it's just that it wasn't done.
现在我认为这种情况正在发生变化，所以并不是说它不安全，而是它还没有完成。
And so people weren't teaching teenage girls how to lift weights.
所以人们并没有教十几岁的女孩如何举重。
And there's a lot of advantages to that, especially if you're playing sports, because we have female athletes who are teenagers and then going into college and continuing to play their sports, and there can be not only a performance improvement, but also an injury reduction from doing some resistance training along with your sports-specific training.
这样做有很多好处，特别是如果你参加体育运动，因为我们有十几岁的女运动员，然后进入大学并继续参加他们的运动，不仅可以提高表现，而且可以通过在运动专项训练中进行一些阻力训练来减少伤害。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So I think it's certainly valuable to start younger.
所以我认为年轻时开始肯定是有价值的。
Also from a habit-building perspective, because I know if you're somebody who has gone decades without ever doing a lot of structured exercise or without ever lifting weights, it can feel kind of daunting and intimidating to learn the new skill.
另外，从养成习惯的角度来看，因为我知道如果你几十年来从未进行过大量的结构化锻炼或从未举重过，那么学习这项新技能可能会让人感到畏惧和恐惧。
That said, we know that you can gain muscle anytime, even if you start at 70.
也就是说，我们知道您可以随时增加肌肉，即使您从 70 岁开始也是如此。
So it's not that it's ever too late to start, but if we start earlier, we are building muscle in the way that you're building a savings account or a retirement account.
因此，并不是说现在开始就太晚了，而是如果我们早点开始，我们就会像建立储蓄账户或退休账户一样增强实力。
Because if we're not lifting weights and if we're not physically active, then we do start to lose muscle with age, and later in life, it does become a problem.
因为如果我们不举重并且不进行身体活动，那么我们确实会随着年龄的增长而开始失去肌肉，而在以后的生活中，这确实会成为一个问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I wonder if resistance training should be taught earlier.
我想知道是否应该更早教授阻力训练。
It doesn't sound like it should be avoided for young girls.
听起来年轻女孩不应该避免这样做。
Is that correct?
这是正确的吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah, I think if we see a young kid doing a barbell squat, there's something kind of jarring about that.
是的，我认为如果我们看到一个小孩子做杠铃深蹲，就会有些不和谐。
But think about all the kids we see all the time on the monkey bars, essentially doing pull-ups or muscle-ups, and developing a lot of upper body strength.
但想想我们经常在单杠上看到的所有孩子，主要是做引体向上或双力臂，并增强上半身的力量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
And certainly, young gymnasts have been doing that for a very long time.
当然，年轻的体操运动员这样做已经很长时间了。
So it's not that there isn't any sort of resistance training going around or happening in childhood, it's just not the structured training that we think when we talk about lifting weights.
所以，并不是说童年时期没有任何形式的阻力训练，只是不是我们在谈论举重时所想到的结构化训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's an excellent point, and it makes me realize that probably early in development, boys and girls are doing resistance training at the level of pull-ups and monkey bars and all the rest to the same extent, maybe even the girls a bit more if the boys are all playing video games or, I don't know.
这是一个很好的观点，它让我意识到，可能在发展的早期，男孩和女孩都在进行引体向上和单杠水平的阻力训练，其他所有训练都达到相同的程度，如果男孩都在玩电子游戏，甚至女孩可能会做更多一点，或者我不知道。
Who knows?
谁知道？
But then there's a drop-off because of this, what really is just a cultural stereotype that boys are going to go to the gym and girls aren't, although that seems to be changing.
但由于这个原因，情况有所下降，这实际上只是一种文化刻板印象，即男孩会去健身房而女孩不会，尽管这种情况似乎正在改变。
Okay, well, that's a bit of the sociology around resistance training in young girls.
好吧，这就是关于年轻女孩阻力训练的一些社会学知识。
What about a woman in her teens, 20s, 30s, or older who's just never done formal resistance training, perhaps has done other forms of exercise.
对于一个十几岁、二十多岁、三十多岁或更年长的女性来说，她们从未接受过正式的阻力训练，也许做过其他形式的锻炼，情况又如何呢？
How should she think about starting resistance training?
她应该如何考虑开始阻力训练？
We could break this down into days per week, sets and reps, et cetera, but what's the general contour of a really good starter program for a woman at essentially any age?
我们可以将其分解为每周的天数、组数和次数等等，但是对于任何年龄段的女性来说，真正好的入门计划的总体轮廓是什么？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Historically, I think women have been told that exercise is for weight loss.
从历史上看，我认为女性被告知运动是为了减肥。
And so it's really important that we start to shift that narrative because resistance training isn't about being smaller.
因此，我们开始改变这种说法非常重要，因为阻力训练并不是为了变小。
It's not about the number on the scale.
这与体重秤上的数字无关。
So we want to think about getting bigger, about growing muscle.
所以我们想要考虑变大、增加肌肉。
And in order to do that, we need to challenge the muscle in a way that is a sufficient stimulus for growth.
为了做到这一点，我们需要以足以刺激生长的方式挑战肌肉。
So if we think about a full body training program, we want to target all of the major muscle groups, and a challenging load will differ depending on the exercise and the muscle groups that we're targeting.
因此，如果我们考虑全身训练计划，我们希望针对所有主要肌肉群，并且具有挑战性的负荷将根据运动和我们所针对的肌肉群的不同而有所不同。
And we can train in low, moderate, or high rep ranges, but we need to train close enough to failure, meaning if we can only do 10 and not an 11th, that's failure.
我们可以在低、中或高次数范围内进行训练，但我们需要训练得足够接近力竭，这意味着如果我们只能做 10 次而不是 11 次，那就是失败。
So we can stop at maybe eight or nine, and that's an appropriate stimulus.
所以我们可以在八点或九点停下来，这是一个适当的刺激。
But if we finish that set of 10, and we could easily do another 10, then that load is too light.
但如果我们完成了这组 10 次，并且我们可以轻松地再做 10 次，那么这个负担就太轻了。
So making sure that we are doing a full body training program, targeting all the major muscle groups, that we're using appropriate loads, and we're progressing over time, because what you'll be able to do, whether it's load or number of repetitions this month, will change next month and the month after.
因此，请确保我们正在针对所有主要肌肉群进行全身训练计划，确保我们使用适当的负荷，并且随着时间的推移我们会取得进展，因为你能够做的事情，无论是本月的负荷还是重复次数，都会在下个月和下个月发生变化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You mentioned full body program.
您提到了全身计划。
Does the entire body have to be trained each session, or could somebody use a so-called split, like chest and back one day, rest, legs the next day, rest, shoulders and arms, calves, some ab work, stretch, repeat.
每次训练都必须训练整个身体吗？或者有人可以使用所谓的分割训练，比如一天胸部和背部，休息，第二天腿部，休息，肩膀和手臂，小腿，一些腹肌训练，伸展，重复。
That sort of thing?
那种事？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
If you're only going to train two or three times a week, I think it's better to do a full body session because you're hitting all those major muscle groups at an appropriate number of times per week.
如果您每周只训练两到三次，我认为最好进行全身训练，因为您每周会以适当的次数锻炼所有主要肌肉群。
If you want to train more often than that, it does make sense to split it up.
如果你想训练得更频繁，那么将其分开确实有意义。
So if you're training four days per week, I would do maybe upper body, lower body, upper body, lower body.
因此，如果你每周训练四天，我可能会训练上半身、下半身、上半身、下半身。
If you're training five days or six days per week, then we might split it up even more the way that you suggested.
如果您每周训练五天或六天，那么我们可能会按照您建议的方式将其分开。
And there are also options depending on your personal goals.
根据您的个人目标，还有一些选择。
And so if we're thinking about muscle growth for overall health, then maybe we're not doing as many exercises, like accessory type exercises.
因此，如果我们考虑肌肉生长以促进整体健康，那么也许我们不会做那么多练习，例如辅助类型的练习。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
But if we're thinking about changing the physique with resistance training, then we might tailor the program to your goals and preferences and work a little bit more on those muscle groups that are important to you.
但如果我们正在考虑通过阻力训练来改变体质，那么我们可能会根据您的目标和偏好定制计划，并更多地锻炼对您重要的肌肉群。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For sake of example then, I'll just try and build a structure around what you're saying.
为了举例，我将尝试围绕您所说的内容构建一个结构。
Let's say a woman decides to do a Monday, Wednesday, Friday whole body workout each time, take the weekends off.
假设一位女士决定周一、周三、周五每次进行全身锻炼，周末休息。
Obviously, the days that it starts could shift.
显然，它开始的日子可能会改变。
But due to schedule or other things, sometimes it's a Monday, Friday, sometimes it's a Monday, Wednesday, sometimes they hit Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
但由于日程或其他原因，有时是周一、周五，有时是周一、周三，有时又碰上周一、周三、周五。
Seems like a reasonable framework.
看起来是一个合理的框架。
Would you suggest training the entire body all three, or in some cases two days per week using the same exercises to target the same muscle groups each time?
您是否建议对整个身体进行全部三项训练，或者在某些情况下每周训练两天，每次使用相同的练习来针对相同的肌肉群？
Meaning if she squats on Monday for her quads and, of course, also for other muscle groups, hamstrings and glutes, certain lower back are going to get hit too, but should she squat again on Wednesday and Friday, or do you recommend varying the movement per muscle group?
这意味着，如果她周一深蹲锻炼股四头肌，当然还有其他肌肉群、腿筋和臀肌，某些下背部也会受到打击，但她应该在周三和周五再次深蹲吗？或者您是否建议改变每个肌肉群的运动？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
It's an option to do either.
两者都可以选择。
I think there's an element of personal preference.
我认为这里面有个人喜好的因素。
If you're working on improving squat strength, then you probably do want to squat more than once per week because practicing the movement is important.
如果您正在努力提高深蹲力量，那么您可能确实希望每周深蹲一次以上，因为练习这个动作很重要。
But if we're talking about muscle growth, then we have a lot of options.
但如果我们谈论的是肌肉生长，那么我们有很多选择。
And so you can do barbell work, you can do machine work, you can do dumbbells, and we can break it up if you wanted more variety by saying, okay, Monday your lower body exercises are going to be a squat, and on Wednesday we'll do a good morning, and we'll work more of the posterior chain, or Friday maybe we'll do more of a glute-dominant exercise, and we'll do some hip thrusts.
所以你可以做杠铃训练，你可以做机器训练，你可以做哑铃训练，如果你想要更多的变化，我们可以把它分解为，好吧，周一你的下半身练习将是深蹲，周三我们会做一个早上好，我们会更多地锻炼后链，或者周五我们可能会做更多的臀肌主导练习，我们会做一些臀部推力。
And so I think it depends how many exercises you're doing in a session, and then how long the workout's going to be before we decide how we're going to split that up.
所以我认为这取决于你在一次训练中做了多少练习，然后在我们决定如何分配之前训练需要多长时间。
And so you could do a more quad-dominant movement like a squat, a lunge, a leg press, a step up, and also do more of a glute, hamstring dominant movement like a good morning or a stiff leg deadlift and do both in the same session, or you could split those up and have more of a quad-dominant day and a more hamstring, glute-dominant day.
因此，你可以做更多股四头肌主导的运动，如深蹲、弓箭步、压腿、上台阶，也可以做更多以臀肌、腿筋为主的运动，如早安或僵腿硬拉，并在同一训练中完成这两项运动，或者你可以将这些分开，安排更多的股四头肌主导运动和更多的腿筋、臀肌主导运动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Got it.
明白了。
I'm going to drill down a little bit more into specifics because I anticipate that's what people will want, and it's probably the first time we've had somebody so well qualified to get into these specifics about resistance training on this podcast, specifically for women.
我将更深入地了解细节，因为我预计这就是人们想要的，这可能是我们第一次有这么有资格的人在这个播客上深入了解有关阻力训练的细节，特别是针对女性的阻力训练。
Although, you're going to tell us later that the words "specifically for women" is dangerous language.
不过，你稍后会告诉我们，“专门针对女性”这个词是危险的语言。
We'll get back to that.
我们稍后再讨论这一点。
Okay, so let's assume two or three days per week, whole body workouts.
好吧，我们假设每周有两三天进行全身锻炼。
One could vary or keep the exercises per muscle group the same.
人们可以改变或保持每个肌肉群的锻炼相同。
How many work sets after a sufficient warm-up?
充分热身后做多少组？
And when I think of warm-up, I'll take the liberty here and you can tell me where I'm wrong.
当我想到热身时，我会在这里冒昧地说，你可以告诉我哪里错了。
I think, okay, a light set to kind of remind yourself what the mechanics are, get some blood flow going, see if anything feels like it might need another light warm-up set, and just kind of like a stretching out.
我想，好吧，一套灯光可以提醒自己机制是什么，让血液流动起来，看看是否有什么感觉可能需要另一套灯光热身，就像伸展一下一样。
Then a moderate set, like 50% of your one-rep max, something where you could do 10 to 15 reps, but maybe you do seven or eight, or maybe even a little heavier.
然后是适度的一组，比如最多一次重复的 50%，你可以做 10 到 15 次，但也许你可以做七到八次，甚至可能更重一点。
And then Move to the work set.
然后移动到工作集。
The work set that's taken within two failure or within a rep or two just shy of failure.
在两次失败或一两次差点失败的情况下完成的工作组。
How many work sets after a sufficient warm-up for that muscle group?
该肌肉群经过充分热身后需要做多少组训练？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
At least two.
至少两个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I prefer three.
我更喜欢三个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
You could do four.
你可以做四个。
Beyond that is probably overkill.
除此之外可能就有点矫枉过正了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that's assuming one exercise for that muscle group for the entire workout.
假设整个锻炼过程中该肌肉群只进行一项锻炼。
So three to four sets per muscle group, per workout.
因此，每次锻炼每个肌肉群三到四组。
Each muscle two to three times per week.
每块肌肉每周锻炼两到三次。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
With the understanding that many exercises work more than one muscle group.
了解许多练习可以锻炼多个肌肉群。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So if I'm doing a leg extension, then I know I'm specifically working the quads.
因此，如果我正在做腿部伸展运动，那么我知道我正在专门锻炼股四头肌。
But if I'm doing a leg press or a squat, then yes, I'm working the quads, but I'm also working the glutes.
但如果我做压腿或深蹲，那么是的，我在锻炼股四头肌，但我也在锻炼臀肌。
And you can kind of say, well, is that a half a set for the glutes?
你可以说，好吧，这是针对臀肌的半组吗？
Is that a full set for the glutes?
这是臀肌的全套吗？
And same thing if we're doing a bench press.
如果我们做卧推也是同样的事情。
Yes, you're working your chest, you're working your delts, you're also working your triceps.
是的，你正在锻炼你的胸部，你正在锻炼你的三角肌，你也在锻炼你的三头肌。
So, is that a full set for the triceps, or is it just a tricep push down that I'm going to consider a set for the triceps?
那么，这是三头肌的全套训练，还是只是三头肌下推，我要考虑一套三头肌训练？
So, it gets a little bit murky when we think about exercises that work multiple muscle groups.
因此，当我们想到锻炼多个肌肉群的运动时，它就变得有点模糊了。
But I think if we focus on those compound movements, the bench press, the squats, the deadlifts, then we should think in that range.
但我认为，如果我们专注于那些复合动作，卧推、深蹲、硬拉，那么我们应该在这个范围内思考。
That we're doing at least two, preferably three, but beyond four, probably unnecessary.
我们至少要做两项，最好是三项，但超过四项，可能就没必要了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, at three workouts per week, that's getting anywhere from 9 to 12 sets for the quads.
嗯，每周锻炼 3 次，股四头肌训练量为 9 到 12 组。
That's a fair amount of work.
这是相当大量的工作。
If one were to collapse all of that into a single workout, that's a lot of quad work.
如果要将所有这些都集中到一次锻炼中，那么股四头肌的训练量就很大。
What sort of rest intervals between sets?
组间休息间隔是怎样的？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I prefer auto-regulation for rest.
我更喜欢自动调节休息。
I think if you have strength specific goals, meaning you're really working on a one-rep max deadlift, let's say.
我认为，如果你有具体的力量目标，这意味着你真的在练习一次最大硬拉，比方说。
In order to repeat that type of performance, you will need longer rest, maybe four minutes, five minutes.
为了重复这种类型的表演，你需要更长的休息时间，也许四分钟，五分钟。
It depends.
这取决于。
But for an average gym session, using some machines or using some dumbbells, then two minutes is probably fine for most people.
但对于一般的健身课程，使用一些机器或使用一些哑铃，那么两分钟对大多数人来说可能就足够了。
And once you've been training for a while, you'll know when you're ready.
一旦你训练了一段时间，你就会知道自己什么时候准备好了。
But if it makes you feel better to set the timer, then I'd say two minutes for most exercises.
但如果设置计时器让你感觉更好，那么我建议大多数练习都设置两分钟。
Maybe three minutes for something like a squat or a deadlift.
也许三分钟可以进行深蹲或硬拉等动作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is there anything of value that can be done during the rest period other than rest and change the weight, of course?
当然，除了休息和改变体重之外，休息期间还有什么有价值的事情可以做吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
If you want to maximize time efficiency, then we might consider agonist-antagonist supersets.
如果你想最大化时间效率，那么我们可以考虑激动剂-拮抗剂超组。
So when you look at somebody doing a bench press or chest press, and then instead of resting for the two to three minutes and then doing the next set, they go and they do a row.
因此，当你看到有人在做卧推或胸部推举时，他们不是休息两到三分钟然后再做下一组，而是继续做一排。
And so you're going back and forth, and you're pairing a push and a pull, and that doesn't seem to interfere with adaptation or even acute performance the same way it would if you didn't rest in between your straight sets of bench press.
所以你要来回移动，并且将推和拉配对，这似乎不会干扰适应甚至敏锐的表现，就像你在两次卧推之间不休息一样。
So that can be a really viable way to train, especially if you are crunched for time.
因此，这可能是一种非常可行的训练方式，尤其是在您时间紧迫的情况下。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So maybe a bench press or some other press type movement, dumbbell incline presses, whatever she selects, and then move immediately from there to a pull down.
因此，也许是卧推或其他推举类型的运动，哑铃上斜推举，无论她选择什么，然后立即从那里转向下拉。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then wait out the remainder of the rest interval and then do another superset, that sort of arrangement?
然后等待剩余的休息时间，然后做另一个超级组，这样的安排？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Super setting or doing an exercise that normally you would rest two or three minutes between and instead resting a minute, then going doing the antagonistic muscle and back, also prevents getting lost in your phone because you're on task.
超级设置或做一项通常需要休息两到三分钟的练习，而不是休息一分钟，然后再做对抗性肌肉和背部运动，也可以防止你因为正在执行任务而迷失在手机中。
It's amazing how much longer workouts get when one starts texting or paying attention to other things.
令人惊奇的是，当一个人开始发短信或关注其他事情时，锻炼时间会延长得多。
And the switching back of focus from exercise to phone is...
将注意力从运动转移到手机上是......
I don't know any good studies on this, but it can't be healthy.
我不知道这方面有什么好的研究，但它不可能是健康的。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah.
是的。
There are also studies about stretching in between-
还有关于中间拉伸的研究-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
...
...
or doing some sort of active recovery type work in between.
或者在两者之间做一些积极的恢复类型的工作。
We don't have enough data to say that's necessarily beneficial.
我们没有足够的数据表明这一定是有益的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
But I think if people are thinking, "I don't want to sit and rest and do nothing," then the superset or even a circuit type of structure is probably a better way to go.
但我认为，如果人们在想，“我不想坐下来休息，什么也不做”，那么超级组甚至循环式的结构可能是更好的选择。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What about pushing past failure?
克服失败怎么样？
Some assisted reps, AKA forced reps, done in reasonably good form, so injury isn't a risk.
一些辅助重复，又称为强制重复，以相当好的形式完成，因此不会有受伤的风险。
Drop sets where you immediately lower the weight and get a few more reps after failure.
减少组数，立即降低重量，并在失败后多做几次。
Are you a fan of these so-called intensity techniques?
您是这些所谓的强度技术的粉丝吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I think forced reps we're not getting much benefit from other than it can be fun if you're working with a training partner.
我认为强制次数除了与训练伙伴一起工作会很有趣之外，我们并没有从中得到太多好处。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Drop sets are a good kind of finisher because they can-- Especially if you're doing a cable type exercise.
递减组是一种很好的终结者，因为它们可以——特别是当你进行绳索式练习时。
I'm not going to say drop sets are better than straight sets, but it is a way to add some kind of variety into, especially the last set of a workout.
我并不是说递减组比直组更好，但这是一种增加某种变化的方法，尤其是训练的最后一组。
Or if you're doing exercises that are just more conducive to drop sets, like a bicep curl or a leg extension or something that's really easy to immediately drop the weight and go to the next.
或者，如果你正在做更有利于递减组的练习，例如二头肌弯举或腿部伸展或其他非常容易立即放下重量并进行下一个练习。
So it's not better, but it's certainly a tool, and it fits into that time efficient strategy.
所以它并不是更好，但它确实是一种工具，并且它适合那种节省时间的策略。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For the longest time, I thought time under tension and moving the weight really slow was of value.
在很长一段时间里，我认为处于紧张状态和缓慢移动重物的时间是有价值的。
I know that everyone should control the weight so that you don't get injured, no dropping the weight and swinging it back up and this kind of thing.
我知道每个人都应该控制重量，这样你就不会受伤，不要把重量放下来再摆回来之类的事情。
But assuming that the weight is under control, meaning momentum isn't doing most of the work, you're being careful to protect your form and posture, et cetera.
但假设重量得到控制，这意味着动量并没有完成大部分工作，你就会小心地保护你的形状和姿势等等。
Is there a best rate of movement for the resistance?
抵抗运动是否存在最佳移动速度？
Should we emphasize the lowering phase, et cetera?
我们是否应该强调降低阶段等等？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
There's always going to be a harder part of the movement and an easier part of the movement.
运动中总会有较难的部分和较容易的部分。
So we should move the weight as quickly as we can during that difficult phase, and then control on the easier phase.
因此，我们应该在困难阶段尽快移动重量，然后在较容易的阶段进行控制。
But trying to intentionally slow down either direction is not particularly advantageous, especially if we think about standing up from a squat.
但试图故意减慢任一方向的速度并不是特别有利，特别是当我们考虑从蹲下站起来时。
We want to stand up from the bottom of the squat as quickly as we can under load.
我们希望在负重的情况下尽快从深蹲底部站起来。
If we have a lot of load, we're not going to stand up super fast, but we should be thinking, "Stand up." Because if we don't, we're less likely to be able to complete that repetition.
如果我们负重很大，我们不会很快站起来，但我们应该想，“站起来”。因为如果我们不这样做，我们就不太可能完成该重复。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think this is a really important point that most non-muscle physiologists, exercise physiologists have not been trained on, but I'm hearing more about this these days, that trying to move the weight as fast as one can, under control, against resistance, should be the mindset inside of the set.
我认为这是非常重要的一点，大多数非肌肉生理学家、运动生理学家都没有接受过培训，但这些天我听到了更多关于这一点的信息，即在控制下、抵抗阻力的情况下，尝试尽可能快地移动重量，应该成为团队内部的心态。
Is that correct?
这是正确的吗？
I want to make sure I'm not contorting your words at all.
我想确保我没有歪曲你的话。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
That's right.
没错。
And when you think about doing a set of 10, by the time you get to seven, eight, nine, the weight is already moving more slowly.
当你考虑做一组 10 次时，当你做到 7、8、9 次时，重量已经移动得更慢了。
You're starting to grind it out because it's getting more and more challenging.
你开始努力解决它，因为它变得越来越具有挑战性。
And so if you are using a load that is appropriate, then the time it takes for you to complete that rep will inevitably get a little bit longer, but that's not something you're doing intentionally.
因此，如果你使用合适的负荷，那么完成该次数所需的时间将不可避免地变得更长，但这不是你故意做的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Got it.
明白了。
Getting really granular here, but I get asked these questions all the time, and as it relates to women's training specifically, you'd be amazed that people are coming to me for that, but almost certainly so that I could ask you, partial repetitions and isometric holds, do they have any value?
在这里变得非常细致，但我总是被问到这些问题，因为它与女性训练特别相关，你会惊讶于人们来找我，但几乎可以肯定的是，这样我就可以问你，部分重复和等距保持，它们有任何价值吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
The problem with doing partial repetitions or even playing with tempo is that it's really difficult to replicate consistently.
进行部分重复甚至节奏演奏的问题在于，很难一致地进行复制。
And so I mentioned earlier that we want to progress over time, and if we're standardizing the range of motion, and we're standardizing the exercise, and we're standardizing the tempo, then it's easy to say, "Okay, I'm using two and a half more pounds this week.
所以我之前提到过，我们希望随着时间的推移取得进步，如果我们标准化运动范围，标准化锻炼，标准化节奏，那么很容易说，“好吧，这周我要多用两磅半的重量。
I've progressed." If we're playing around with all of these variables and then we're trying to add load, it starts to get a little tricky because you're saying, "I know I'm using more load, but am I cutting the range of motion short in order to lift more?
我进步了。”如果我们考虑所有这些变量，然后尝试增加负载，事情就会开始变得有点棘手，因为你会说，“我知道我使用了更多负载，但我是否会缩短运动范围以举起更多重量？
Am I speeding up the reps in order to lift more?" So we want to introduce fewer variables to make sure that we are progressing, whether it's a rep or load.
我是否加快重复次数以举起更多重量？”因此，我们希望引入更少的变量，以确保我们取得进展，无论是代表还是负荷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Repetition ranges.
重复范围。
Earlier you said getting close to failure or going to failure is the critical component, but within a pretty broad range.
早些时候您说过接近失败或即将失败是关键因素，但范围相当广泛。
Do you think it's necessary to limit oneself to certain repetition ranges on the order of a workout, the week, the month, a phase of the year?
您认为有必要将自己限制在一定的重复范围内，例如锻炼顺序、每周、每月、一年中的某个阶段吗？
Are repetition ranges between three and five compatible with repetition ranges for other muscle groups?
三到五次的重复范围与其他肌肉群的重复范围兼容吗？
Are the same in the same week of 10 to 15?
同一周的10到15是否相同？
I think there's a lot of vagueness around this for women and for men.
我认为对于女性和男性来说，这方面有很多模糊之处。
You hear, "Oh, low reps get you strong but don't grow muscle," and then you hear, "Higher reps, as long as you go to failure, they'll grow muscle." And that's all fine and good, but no one really has ever said clearly how to vary this stuff in a way that allows for the best progress.
你会听到，“哦，低次数可以让你变得强壮，但不会增长肌肉”，然后你会听到，“更高的次数，只要你力竭，它们就会增长肌肉。”这一切都很好，但没有人真正清楚地说过如何以一种能够取得最佳进展的方式改变这些东西。
And I realize that's a lot to ask you to tackle in one answer, but you have the mic.
我意识到需要你在一个答案中解决很多问题，但你有麦克风。
What are your thoughts on repetition ranges and how to vary them, and when?
您对重复范围有何想法以及如何改变它们以及何时改变？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
We used to think, and they used to teach all the personal trainers this, there was a strength endurance continuum such that you're doing one to five reps and you're building strength, and then you're doing something kind of moderate range up to 12, and that's hypertrophy.
我们曾经认为，他们曾经教所有的私人教练这一点，有一个力量耐力连续体，这样你可以做一到五次，你可以增强力量，然后你可以做一些中等范围的动作，最多 12 次，这就是肥大。
And then beyond that, 12 to 20, that's muscular endurance.
除此之外，12 到 20，这就是肌肉耐力。
And our understanding of that has evolved.
我们对此的理解已经演变。
Certainly, if you're training for maximal strength, i.e. a one-rep max, then you need to be training in those lower rep ranges because that is a sport-specific training.
当然，如果您正在训练最大力量，即最多一次重复，那么您需要在较低的次数范围内进行训练，因为这是一项针对特定运动的训练。
And so it's not that if you do sets of 10, your one-rep max won't get stronger.
因此，并不是说如果你做 10 组，你的单次最大次数就不会变得更强。
It will.
会的。
But to maximize your one-rep max, then we need to do some very high load, very low rep training.
但为了最大限度地提高单次次数上限，我们需要进行一些非常高负荷、非常低次数的训练。
If the goal is hypertrophy, we have way more flexibility because we do see similar growth whether you're training in those high load, low rep ranges or the lower load, high rep ranges, and anything in between, provided that we train close enough to failure.
如果目标是增肌，我们就有更大的灵活性，因为无论您是在高负荷、低次数范围内进行训练，还是在较低负荷、高次数范围内进行训练，以及介于两者之间的任何训练，只要我们训练得足够接近力竭，我们都会看到类似的增长。
However, we need to think about overall volume, because that's very important for growth.
然而，我们需要考虑总体数量，因为这对于增长非常重要。
So if we're doing sets of three, we're going to need to do a lot of sets of three to accomplish the same overall volume that we would get by doing sets of eight or 10.
因此，如果我们做三组，我们需要做很多三组，才能达到与八组或十组相同的总训练量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That last point, I'm so grateful you said that.
最后一点，我很感激你这么说。
I used to hear the late Charles Poliquin say this, that if you're going to use higher repetitions, let's say between eight and 15, which for me seems like high repetitions, you can, I don't want to say get away with, but you could do two or three sets per muscle group, or per exercise, and maybe two exercises for a muscle group.
我曾经听已故的 Charles Poliquin 说过这样的话，如果你要使用更高的重复次数，比如说 8 到 15 次，这对我来说似乎是高重复次数，你可以，我不想说侥幸逃脱，但你可以为每个肌肉群或每个练习做两到三组，也许一个肌肉群做两次练习。
Whereas if you're going to train in the three to six rep range, you might need to do eight sets.
然而，如果您要进行三到六次的训练，则可能需要做八组。
And because typically one rests longer in between sets with heavier loads, those are two very different workouts.
而且由于通常在负荷较重的组之间休息时间较长，因此这是两种截然不同的训练。
One is actually much more efficient than the other, even though it gets you something slightly different.
一种实际上比另一种更有效率，尽管它给你带来的东西略有不同。
I'm sure people are wondering, and I know you don't want to bias people's choices, but do you have a favorite repetition range for you, for your level of experience these days?
我确信人们想知道，我知道您不想让人们的选择产生偏见，但是根据您目前的经验水平，您有最喜欢的重复范围吗？
What do you typically select?
您通常会选择什么？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I typically do something in the 6 to 12, depending on the exercise.
我通常会在 6 到 12 天内进行一些活动，具体取决于练习。
But I think some exercises are fun to do 15 reps of, and some are not.
但我认为有些练习重复 15 次会很有趣，而有些则不然。
So I think if you're doing something like face pulls for your rear delts or leg extensions, I would never say, "Yeah, do a set of three." But if you're doing squats, I don't want to do a set of 20 squats ever, and most people don't.
所以我认为，如果你正在做诸如面拉等三角肌后束或腿部伸展动作，我绝不会说，“是的，做一组三个。”但如果你在做深蹲，我不想做一组 20 次的深蹲，而且大多数人也不会这样做。
So I think we can, for most people, say, all right, somewhere in the 6 to 12-ish is a good sweet spot.
所以我认为，对于大多数人来说，好吧，6 到 12 左右的某个地方是一个很好的最佳点。
If you're new, I'd say go 8 to 12 because we want to get really comfortable with the movement pattern.
如果你是新手，我会建议选择 8 到 12，因为我们想要真正适应运动模式。
And so if you're only doing sets of four or sets of five, then you're not repeating the movement enough to get really proficient with the technique.
因此，如果您只做四组或五组，那么您就没有足够重复该动作来真正精通该技术。
So I'd love for those people to start in a moderate rep range.
所以我希望这些人从适度的代表范围开始。
I think also if you go beyond that, then there's more of a chance of form failure and injury risk.
我认为如果你超出了这个范围，那么出现形式失败和受伤风险的可能性就会更大。
And so we want to be really proficient in the moderate rep range before we start exploring those lower or higher rep ranges.
因此，在开始探索较低或较高的次数范围之前，我们希望真正精通中等次数范围。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you think it's valuable for women to vary the repetition, or men, to vary the repetition ranges week by week?
您认为女性每周改变重复次数是否有价值，男性每周改变重复范围是否有价值？
Like, okay, this week I'm going to train 6 to 10 reps on everything.
就像，好吧，这周我将对所有事情进行 6 到 10 次训练。
Or I'm going to go 3 to 5 reps on everything for three weeks, then I'm going to switch to 6 to 8 for three weeks, and then I'm going to go 10 to 15 for three weeks, and then repeat.
或者我会在三周内对所有事情进行 3 到 5 次重复，然后我会在三周内改为 6 到 8 次重复，然后我会在三周内进行 10 到 15 次重复，然后重复。
Is there any known value for hypertrophy and strength training to doing it, sticking with one thing, and then systematically varying every, say, three weeks?
增肌和力量训练有什么已知的价值吗？坚持做一件事，然后每三周系统地改变一次？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
You can do it that way.
你可以这样做。
I prefer to combine it into the week.
我更喜欢将其合并到一周中。
So if, let's say we're doing squats twice a week, then let's do a lower rep set day and a moderate rep set day.
因此，如果我们每周做两次深蹲，那么我们就做一个较低次数的训练日和一个中等次数的训练日。
And you can do that for all of your main compound lifts, and that adds some variety, but also means you have the data to make sure that you're progressing in each of those rep ranges simultaneously.
您可以对所有主要的复合举重进行此操作，这增加了一些多样性，但也意味着您拥有数据来确保您同时在每个代表范围内取得进展。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Whereas if we were to do sets of six for three weeks and then move to sets of 12, then I don't really have that anchor point for am I making progress because now I'm doing that lift in another rep range.
然而，如果我们要在三周内做六组，然后转向十二组，那么我真的没有那个锚点来判断我是否取得了进步，因为现在我正在另一个代表范围内进行举重。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're a regular listener of the "Huberman Lab" podcast, you've no doubt heard me talk about the vitamin mineral probiotic drink AG1.
如果您是“Huberman Lab”播客的常客，您无疑听过我谈论过维生素矿物质益生菌饮料 AG1。
And if you've been on the fence about it, now's an awesome time to give it a try.
如果您一直对此持观望态度，那么现在正是尝试的好时机。
For the next few weeks, AG1 is giving away a full supplement package with your first subscription to AG1.
在接下来的几周内，AG1 将在您首次订阅 AG1 时赠送完整的补充包。
They're giving away a free bottle of vitamin D3+K2, a bottle of omega-3 fish oil capsules, and a sample pack of the new sleep formula, AGZ, which by the way, is now the only sleep supplement I take.
他们免费赠送一瓶维生素 D3+K2、一瓶 omega-3 鱼油胶囊和新睡眠配方 AGZ 样品包，顺便说一下，它是我现在唯一服用的睡眠补充剂。
It's fantastic.
太棒了。
My sleep on AGZ is out of this world good.
我在 AGZ 的睡眠质量非常好。
AGZ is a drink, so it eliminates the need to take a lot of pills.
AGZ 是一种饮料，因此无需服用大量药片。
It tastes great, and like I said, it has me sleeping incredibly well, waking up more refreshed than ever.
它味道好极了，就像我说的，它让我睡得非常好，醒来时比以往任何时候都精神焕发。
I absolutely love it.
我非常喜欢它。
Again, this is a limited time offer, so make sure to go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get started today.
再次强调，这是限时优惠，因此请务必立即访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 开始。
A moment ago, you said something, and I'm so grateful that you said this because I don't think it's ever been communicated as clearly as you did, and I would just want to double-click on it.
刚才，你说了一些话，我很感激你这么说，因为我认为它从来没有像你那样清晰地传达过，我只想双击它。
There's this assumption that heavier sets, and I'm not referring to one to three reps, let's say in the five to eight repetition range, final repetitions, close to failure or failure, that somehow they are more dangerous than high repetition sets.
有这样的假设，即较重的组数，我指的不是一到三次重复，比方说，在五到八次重复范围内，最后的重复，接近失败或失败，不知何故，它们比高重复组数更危险。
In my experience, high repetitions from 15 to 25, especially on compound movements, get people hurt at least as often as the heavy stuff, and I think it's because, I'm guessing here, but that it's hard to concentrate and generate perfect form on a very high repetition set.
根据我的经验，15 到 25 次的高重复次数，尤其是复合动作，至少会像大重量一样让人受伤，我想这是因为，我在这里猜测，但在非常高的重复次数上很难集中注意力并形成完美的形式。
And compound movements are where you can get hurt.
而复合动作是你可能受伤的地方。
You can get hurt on isolation movements, but multi-joint movements done for 20 reps, unless you're really locked in mentally, that's often where people get injured is my observation.
你可能会因为孤立动作而受伤，但根据我的观察，多关节动作重复 20 次之后，除非你真的在精神上陷入困境，否则这往往是人们受伤的地方。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I think it's an equal opportunity game.
我认为这是一场机会均等的游戏。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
We really need to make sure that form is dialed in and that you have a spotter or a training partner if appropriate, depending on the lift that you're doing.
我们确实需要确保该表格已拨入，并且您有一名观察员或训练伙伴（如果合适），具体取决于您正在做的举重。
Because if you're doing high rep deadlifts, for example, you do have more opportunities to lift the weight in such a way that you just tweak something.
因为例如，如果您正在进行高次数硬拉，您确实有更多机会以只需调整一些东西的方式举起重量。
And sometimes if people are doing those lower rep heavier sets, they're more likely to take that moment, reset, lock in, and then perform the next rep.
有时，如果人们正在做那些低次数、大重量的组，他们更有可能抓住那一刻，重置，锁定，然后执行下一个次数。
And it's a bit easier to rush the set and not force yourself to reset and focus on those form cues when you're using a load that doesn't require you to do so.
当你使用不需要你这样做的负载时，匆忙进行设置而不是强迫自己重置并专注于这些形式提示会更容易一些。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Yes.
是的。
Recently, there was a pretty avid debate online about heavy weights versus not heavy weights, especially for older folks, and since now I'm 50, I place myself in that category.
最近，网上有一场关于大重量和非大重量的激烈争论，尤其是对于老年人来说，而现在我已经 50 岁了，我把自己归入这一类。
I'm a big fan of low repetitions but not Three or less.
我非常喜欢低重复次数，但不喜欢重复次数为 3 次或更少。
But let's just say some of my peers feel that that's super dangerous not to recommend five to eight repetition range.
但我想说的是，我的一些同行认为不推荐五到八次重复范围是非常危险的。
It could be that some people are just better at quote unquote "locking everything in" and getting really focused and doing a proper set when there's fewer repetitions than...
可能有些人更擅长“锁定所有内容”，并在重复次数少于……时真正集中注意力并做正确的一组动作。
And some people might be great at...
有些人可能很擅长...
I realize that doing 20 repetitions of stiff-legged deadlifts and every repetition is just beautiful.
我意识到，重复做 20 次直腿硬拉，每一次重复都是美妙的。
But isn't there the idea that some of the smaller supporting muscles can fatigue as a set goes on and make one susceptible to injury?
但是，是否有这样的想法：随着一组动作的进行，一些较小的支撑肌肉会疲劳并使人容易受伤？
Or is that just like jock science?
或者这就像体育科学一样？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
No matter what, we need to make sure that we're appropriately warmed up and that we're using proper technique.
无论如何，我们需要确保我们进行了适当的热身并且使用了正确的技术。
So if you try to go do a one-rep max or a set of three and you're not properly warmed up, I'm concerned.
因此，如果你尝试最多做一次或一组三次，但没有进行适当的热身，我会担心。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
But assuming all else is equal, then depending on the exercise, we also have to think of overall systemic fatigue, even fatigue on the cardiovascular system if you're doing 30 squats.
但假设其他条件都相同，那么根据运动的不同，我们还必须考虑整体全身疲劳，甚至如果你做了 30 次深蹲，心血管系统也会出现疲劳。
You might be out of breath before your legs give out, and that can introduce another mental challenge to the set.
在双腿无力之前，你可能会气喘吁吁，这可能会给团队带来另一个心理挑战。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Excellent point.
很棒的一点。
I hadn't considered that.
我没有考虑到这一点。
I also don't enjoy 20-repetition squats.
我也不喜欢重复 20 次的深蹲。
Although on the belt squat, I'm finding, let's just say, some personal growth through them, mental personal growth.
虽然在腰带深蹲中，我发现，可以说，通过它们，我发现了一些个人成长，心理上的个人成长。
It's a whole different thing to do high-repetition leg work.
进行高重复腿部训练是完全不同的事情。
And it is very cardiovascular.
而且非常有心血管作用。
Speaking of which, I think most people nowadays, men and women, understand that cardiovascular exercise is important as well.
说到这里，我想现在大多数人，无论男女，都明白心血管锻炼也很重要。
And I realize that term pisses off the endurance athletes because what is cardiovascular exercise?
我意识到这个词激怒了耐力运动员，因为什么是心血管运动？
I'm talking about something that you can repeat for six minutes or more, continuously, gets heart rate elevated and so on.
我说的是一些你可以连续重复六分钟或更长时间的事情，可以提高心率等等。
I think most people think of this as cardio.
我想大多数人都认为这是有氧运动。
How do you recommend scheduling cardio with the two or three day per week resistance training?
您建议如何安排每周两到三天的有氧运动和阻力训练？
Does it matter if somebody does it before or after their weight training on a given day?
如果有人在某一天的举重训练之前或之后进行锻炼，这有什么关系吗？
Can they do it on the same day?
他们可以在同一天做吗？
Would they be better off doing it on other days?
如果他们在其他日子这样做会更好吗？
What are the guidelines?
指导方针是什么？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So the concept of kind of the interference effect or issues with concurrent training come from the idea that you have both endurance training goals and resistance training goals, and that if you perform those too close together, that the endurance training might blunt some of that hypertrophic adaptation.
因此，干扰效应或并发训练问题的概念来自于这样的想法：你同时拥有耐力训练目标和阻力训练目标，如果你同时执行这些目标太接近，那么耐力训练可能会削弱一些肥大适应。
We see that could be true if you're doing very high volume work and you're stacking it very close together.
我们发现，如果您正在做大量工作并且将其非常紧密地堆叠在一起，那么这可能是正确的。
So assuming your hypertrophy or strength is the goal, then we would want to perform that first and, if possible, separate them by at least several hours.
因此，假设您的目标是肥大或力量，那么我们希望首先执行此操作，并且如果可能的话，将它们分开至少几个小时。
But we really don't run into true interference effect type results unless we're doing tons of training and you're doing your sprints before you do your leg workout.
但我们确实不会遇到真正的干扰效应类型的结果，除非我们进行大量训练并且在进行腿部锻炼之前进行冲刺。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I would avoid that.
我会避免这种情况。
I think we also need to think about whether we have endurance training goals, or we're just trying to be fit for health.
我认为我们还需要考虑我们是否有耐力训练目标，或者我们只是想保持健康。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Most people listening to this probably would like to get stronger, probably would like to add muscle to specific muscles, and maybe have it in mind, and we'll get here in a moment, to deliberately not add muscle to other muscles, and to be what they consider lean enough, and that want to be fit.
大多数听这个的人可能都想变得更强壮，可能想为特定的肌肉增加肌肉，也许已经记住了这一点，我们稍后会讲到，故意不为其他肌肉增加肌肉，并成为他们认为足够瘦的人，并且想要保持健康。
I always think of the general life requirements, like you want to be able to carry your suitcase or bag, and if you have to run for the plane, that you can do it without coughing up a lung.
我总是想到一般的生活要求，比如你希望能够携带你的行李箱或包，如果你必须跑去赶飞机，你可以在不咳出肺的情况下做到这一点。
Pick things up and not get injured.
捡起东西，不要受伤。
Sprint if you need to.
如果需要的话，冲刺。
Play a game of Frisbee or soccer or volleyball, a pickup game at the picnic or something.
玩一场飞盘、足球、排球、野餐时的临时游戏什么的。
Go for a hike, maybe with a kid on your back, maybe with a backpack if you don't have kids.
去远足，也许背着孩子，如果你没有孩子，也许背着背包。
I think these sort of like just ability to go out on a Sunday and take a long hike with a pack without having to train for it.
我认为这有点像周日出去背着背包进行长途徒步旅行而无需训练的能力。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The ability to sprint for the plane without dying when you arrive there.
能够在到达飞机后不死的情况下冲向飞机。
These kinds of things, to me, are the real-life metrics.
对我来说，这些都是现实生活中的指标。
I feel like that's what most people want.
我觉得这就是大多数人想要的。
And then, of course, some people want to run marathons and be powerlifters and Alex Honnold just scaled a tower in Taipei without any ropes.
当然，有些人想跑马拉松并成为举重运动员，而 Alex Honnold 刚刚在没有任何绳索的情况下攀登了台北的一座塔。
So there's a huge range.
所以范围很大。
But I think what I described, I think, is where most of us are at.
但我认为我所描述的正是我们大多数人的处境。
What do you think most women are at?
你认为大多数女性都在做什么？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Lifting weights is so important because we don't have a lifestyle fun equivalent activity.
举重是如此重要，因为我们没有与生活方式同等的有趣活动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
But I don't think we all need to be going for a jog or spending an hour on the elliptical if we prefer playing tennis or going for bike rides with friends or going for hikes or something that is physically active and enjoyable and that we will be more likely to do consistently.
但我不认为我们都需要去慢跑或在椭圆机上花一个小时，如果我们更喜欢打网球或与朋友一起骑自行车或去远足或进行一些身体活动和愉快的事情，并且我们更有可能坚持这样做。
So there is an element of that that can be really freeing for people because they think, "Oh, well, then I don't need to worry about adding these structured cardio sessions in my week.
因此，其中有一个因素可以真正让人们自由，因为他们会想，“哦，好吧，那么我就不需要担心在一周中添加这些结构化的有氧运动了。
I'm just going to do those outdoor physical activities with friends that I'm enjoying and also benefiting from."
我只是要和朋友们一起进行那些我喜欢并从中受益的户外体育活动。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
What are the data on walking?
步行的数据有哪些？
I've heard 7,000 steps or so per day is a good number to shoot for.
我听说每天 7,000 步左右是一个不错的目标。
I heard that the 10,000 number was just kind of thrown out there the same way that eight hours of intermittent fasting was just kind of thrown out there.
我听说 10,000 这个数字就被扔在那里了，就像八小时间歇性禁食被扔在那里一样。
We'll get back to that.
我们稍后再讨论这一点。
How important and helpful is walking for women in particular?
步行对于女性来说有多重要和有帮助？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I like to think of walking as something you can do that is not structured exercise, and so we're not thinking about meeting a step count necessarily.
我喜欢将步行视为您可以做的事情，而不是结构化锻炼，因此我们不一定要考虑步数。
You can do that, but people who focus on something like step counts usually do so for a few months and then stop.
你可以这样做，但是那些专注于步数统计之类的人通常会这样做几个月，然后就停止了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Because being kind of obsessive about tracking that metric gets a little old.
因为痴迷于跟踪该指标已经有点过时了。
And it's important to think not only about hitting one target, whether it's minutes of exercise per week or step count or heart rate goal, but what are we doing for the other hours in the day?
重要的是，不仅要考虑达到一个目标，无论是每周锻炼的分钟数、步数还是心率目标，还要考虑一天中的其他时间我们在做什么？
So I think somebody who isn't active at all, going from doing very few steps to getting it up to 4,000, 5,000, 6,000 steps, yes, we're going to see a huge benefit.
所以我认为对于那些根本不活跃的人来说，从很少的步数到增加到 4,000、5,000、6,000 步，是的，我们将会看到巨大的好处。
But if you're somebody who is physically active in a variety of ways and you are moving throughout the day, not necessarily focusing purely on steps, then that metric of step count is a little bit less useful because we are getting in that overall activity that is going to be beneficial for health.
但如果你是一个以多种方式进行身体活动的人，并且你整天都在运动，不一定只关注步数，那么步数指标就没那么有用了，因为我们正在进行的总体活动对健康有益。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what I'm hearing is if a woman is in the gym two or three days per week, lifting the way that you described, and has some outdoor or indoor social sport-type activities that she enjoys, there's no need to specifically add cardio unless there's an endurance goal or a sprint competition goal.
所以我听到的是，如果一位女性每周在健身房锻炼两到三天，按照您所描述的方式进行举重，并进行一些她喜欢的户外或室内社交运动类型的活动，则无需专门添加有氧运动，除非有耐力目标或短跑比赛目标。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah, and I think a lot of people are adding cardio for weight loss goals, and that is a bit of a fool's errand because the fat loss that we will get from just adding exercise is pretty disappointing relative to the fat loss that we will see when we adjust our nutrition.
是的，我认为很多人为了减肥目标而增加有氧运动，这有点愚蠢，因为与我们调整营养时看到的脂肪减少相比，仅增加运动所减少的脂肪是相当令人失望的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What about getting up toward max heart rate for sake of the dreaded VO2 max?
为了达到可怕的最大摄氧量，提高心率怎么样？
No, I don't say dreaded.
不，我不是说害怕。
I just think it's funny because five years ago, no one was talking about heart rate variability and VO2 max.
我只是觉得这很有趣，因为五年前，没有人谈论心率变异性和最大摄氧量。
Again, I'm not trying to inject male fitness or my routine into it, but by virtue of what I've learned in the course of the podcast and also what I enjoy, I make it a point to get on the Airdyne bike or some other thing I can do at max effort or close to it without getting injured, and do a 30-second sprint, 30-second rest, 30-second sprint for at least once a week, ideally twice.
再说一次，我并不是想在其中注入男性健身或我的日常习惯，但凭借我在播客过程中学到的东西以及我喜欢的东西，我把骑Airdyne自行车或其他我可以尽最大努力或接近它而不受伤的事情作为重点，每周至少一次进行30秒冲刺，30秒休息，30秒冲刺，最好是两次。
I'm assuming, and you tell me, you have the credentials here, I'm assuming that by getting my heart rate way up for a couple of minutes each week, that I'm doing myself some benefit separate from my resistance training.
我假设，你告诉我，你在这里有资格，我假设通过每周提高我的心率几分钟，除了阻力训练之外，我还为自己带来了一些好处。
Is that true?
这是真的吗？
Because I'm not a calorie counter, kind of an intuitive sense of what I need, but I see at the end of those workouts, it says I burned 100 calories, which is, I walk, I eat 100 calories of blueberries in one pass by the blueberry basket.
因为我不是一个卡路里计数器，对我需要什么有一种直觉，但我看到在这些锻炼结束时，它说我燃烧了 100 卡路里，也就是说，我走路，我在经过蓝莓篮时吃了 100 卡路里的蓝莓。
So I'm not trying to do it for caloric burn's sake.
所以我并不是为了燃烧卡路里而尝试这样做。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah.
是的。
The value of the really high-intensity stuff is time efficiency.
真正高强度的事情的价值在于时间效率。
So if we look at those adaptations to endurance exercise, or if we're going to just say cardio broadly, then you can get those by doing more long-form moderate intensity.
因此，如果我们看看对耐力运动的适应，或者如果我们只是广义地说有氧运动，那么您可以通过进行更长时间的中等强度运动来获得这些适应。
You can also get those by doing higher intensity for shorter amounts of time.
您还可以通过在较短的时间内进行更高强度的训练来获得这些效果。
So it's not that it's magic in terms of the adaptation, but you're able to get more bang for your buck because you're doing that higher intensity, and you don't need to do it for quite as long.
所以这并不是说它在适应方面有魔力，而是你能够获得更多的回报，因为你正在做更高的强度，而且你不需要做那么长时间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's talk about the somewhat barbed wire topic these days about variations in hormones as they relate to the menstrual cycle and training requirements.
让我们来谈谈这些天关于激素变化的有点铁丝网的话题，因为它们与月经周期和训练要求有关。
There's a lot of assumptions about this, there's a lot of conjecture, and I do believe there's also a lot of outright fabrication, not because anyone necessarily wants to mislead, but I don't think anyone has spent as much time with the data on this as you have.
对此有很多假设，有很多猜想，而且我确实相信也有很多彻头彻尾的捏造，并不是因为有人一定想误导，但我认为没有人像你一样花那么多时间在这方面的数据上。
So should women train differently depending on where they are in their menstrual cycle?
那么女性是否应该根据月经周期的不同阶段进行不同的训练呢？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
The short answer is no. The conversation around the menstrual cycle is good.
简短的回答是否定的。围绕月经周期的对话很好。
I think it's good that we're talking about it.
我认为我们讨论这个问题很好。
It's good that people feel comfortable discussing it with their coach.
人们能够轻松地与教练讨论这个问题，这是件好事。
The unfortunate shift of because you have a menstrual cycle and because hormones are fluctuating, you need to change how you are exercising, is way too simplistic and doesn't align with the data that we have.
不幸的是，因为你有月经周期，而且荷尔蒙在波动，你需要改变你的锻炼方式，但这种转变太简单化了，与我们现有的数据不符。
So instead of worrying about whether you're in this phase or that phase or whether estradiol is high or low, I would really focus on how you feel.
因此，我不会担心您是否处于这个阶段或那个阶段，或者雌二醇是否高或低，我会真正关注您的感受。
Train hard, train consistently, train progressively.
刻苦训练、持续训练、循序渐进训练。
If at some point in your cycle you experience menstrual symptoms or fatigue or a lack of motivation that you relate to menstruation, then having an option to skip a workout or adjust the exercises that you're doing for that workout or do another form of exercise that day is completely fine.
如果在您的周期中的某个时刻，您出现月经症状或疲劳或缺乏与月经相关的动力，那么可以选择跳过锻炼或调整您为该锻炼进行的锻炼或当天进行其他形式的锻炼是完全可以的。
I'm not saying you have to grind it out, push through, but you are not less capable that day because you have your menstrual period or because the hormone profile has shifted in one direction or another.
我并不是说你必须努力克服它，坚持下去，但你那天的能力并不会因为你有月经期或因为荷尔蒙分布向一个方向或另一个方向发生变化而减弱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's a broader conversation around this, I think, about when to push through internal resistance, either just kind of general malaise, like one doesn't feel well or didn't sleep well, whether or not one is feeling run down.
我认为，围绕这个问题有一个更广泛的讨论，关于何时克服内部阻力，要么只是一种全身不适，比如一个人感觉不舒服或睡不好，无论一个人是否感到精疲力竭。
Maybe we can kind of tuck that into this conversation about ways to vary training or not vary training according to phase of the menstrual cycle.
也许我们可以将其纳入有关如何根据月经周期阶段改变训练或不改变训练的对话中。
Let's say somebody is not feeling as rested as they normally do or would like to.
假设某人感觉没有像平常或想要的那样休息。
And I say that because people assume you need eight hours of sleep, right?
我这么说是因为人们认为你需要八小时的睡眠，对吧？
One might need eight, they might need 10.
一个人可能需要 8 个，也可能需要 10 个。
I'm fine on six and a half to seven.
六点半到七点我没问题。
I prefer eight, but actually six and a half to seven, I'm good.
我更喜欢八岁，但实际上六岁半到七岁，我都很好。
Five, that's a whole other issue.
五，那是另一个问题了。
So should women push through a day of a workout if they got maybe an hour or two less than their normal ration of sleep that they need?
那么，如果女性的睡眠时间比正常睡眠量少一两个小时，她们是否应该坚持一天的锻炼呢？
Or are they putting themselves in some sort of danger if they do that?
或者如果他们这样做的话，他们是否会将自己置于某种危险之中？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
There's no danger.
没有危险。
You might feel worse.
你可能会感觉更糟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
But subjective measures of performance are different often from objective measures of performance, and that goes for the menstrual cycle symptoms and other factors as well.
但主观表现衡量标准通常与客观表现衡量标准不同，月经周期症状和其他因素也是如此。
So you might go in and deadlift the same weight as last week and you'd say, "Wow, this feels really heavy," or, "The weight's moving really slow this morning," but you're still lifting it.
因此，你可能会硬拉与上周相同的重量，然后你会说，“哇，这感觉真的很重”，或者“今天早上重量移动得很慢”，但你仍然在举起它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So objectively, the performance was the same.
所以客观来说，表现是一样的。
It's just your experience of what it felt like differs.
这只是您对感觉的体验有所不同。
It feels harder today.
今天感觉更难了。
To your point, that can be the case for a variety of reasons.
就您而言，出现这种情况可能有多种原因。
We can be underslept, or we are jet lagged, or we're stressed about something work-related and feeling distracted.
我们可能会睡眠不足，或者时差反应，或者我们对与工作相关的事情感到压力并感到心烦意乱。
There's a lot of reasons why we don't have a 10 out of 10 workout every single time we go to the gym.
有很多原因导致我们每次去健身房时没有进行十分之十的锻炼。
So I think there's an argument to be made to, yeah, push forward, just do it anyway.
所以我认为有一个论点是，是的，继续前进，无论如何都要做。
Even a subpar workout is better than no workout at all.
即使是低于标准的锻炼也比完全不锻炼要好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In your experience and observation, do you think that women who take up resistance training enjoy it on average?
根据您的经验和观察，您认为接受阻力训练的女性平均喜欢它吗？
Do they tend to enjoy it, or do they tend to enjoy the feeling afterwards?
他们倾向于享受它，还是倾向于享受事后的感觉？
How do you feel about resistance training?
您对阻力训练有何看法？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I think it's particularly powerful for women because, and I alluded to this earlier, there's a history of marketing ineffective programs to women or encouraging them to constantly switch it up.
我认为这对女性尤其重要，因为我之前提到过，向女性推销无效的计划或鼓励她们不断改变计划的历史悠久。
Try this new group fitness class, or try this new at-home video workout.
尝试这个新的团体健身课程，或者尝试这个新的家庭视频锻炼。
And they never really see the results that they are hoping to see.
他们从来没有真正看到他们希望看到的结果。
And so you're just program hopping and disappointed and feeling like, "I'm putting in all this work, I'm doing the thing, and I'm not seeing results." When you stick to a good resistance training program for long enough, not only do you start to see results in the way that your body looks, because muscle growth can change your body composition and can change your physique, but you also have this empowering feeling of progression over time.
所以你只是在计划跳跃和失望，感觉就像，“我投入了所有这些工作，我正在做这件事，但我没有看到结果。”当您坚持足够长的时间进行良好的阻力训练计划时，您不仅会开始看到身体看起来的结果，因为肌肉生长可以改变您的身体成分并可以改变您的体质，而且随着时间的推移，您还会有这种进步的感觉。
I can get stronger.
我可以变得更强。
I can do more.
我可以做更多。
And that keeps you coming back.
这会让你回来。
It's really motivating.
这真的很激励人心。
So I think that can be really powerful that you feel like you're getting something out of what you're putting in, and you're more likely to stick to it long term.
所以我认为这真的很强大，让你觉得你从你的投入中得到了一些东西，而且你更有可能长期坚持下去。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For anyone, but since we're talking mainly about women's resistance training today, do you think there's value to spending two or three weeks, maybe less, maybe more, just learning movements properly before getting into the whole business of progressive overload?
对于任何人来说，但既然我们今天主要讨论的是女性阻力训练，你认为在进入渐进式超负荷的整个过程之前，花两到三周（也许更少，也许更多）正确学习动作是否有价值？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yes, because the problem is you start to see, oh, I can do more than I did last week, and then you think, oh, well, this is linear, right?
是的，因为问题是你开始看到，哦，我可以比上周做更多的事情，然后你会想，哦，好吧，这是线性的，对吗？
And so you think, I can add 10 pounds every week forever.
所以你想，我可以永远每周增加 10 磅。
It doesn't work like that.
它不是那样工作的。
So inevitably, you end up training, or many of us have trained in such a way that we injured something, tweaked something, form failed because we got so focused on just lifting more weight.
所以不可避免地，你最终会接受训练，或者我们中的许多人都以这样的方式训练，以至于我们受伤了一些东西，调整了一些东西，形式失败了，因为我们太专注于举起更多的重量。
So I agree that a slower progression could be better, but that's also the power of just trying to add another rep instead of trying to add weight week in and week out.
所以我同意缓慢的进展可能会更好，但这也是尝试增加另一次代表而不是尝试每周增加重量的力量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We're all told we just kind of need to exercise, and there's examples of how to do movements, but it'd be wonderful if there was kind of getting the basics.
我们都被告知我们只是需要锻炼，并且有如何进行运动的示例，但如果能够了解基础知识那就太好了。
Like a sprinter doesn't just go sprint.
就像短跑运动员不只是短跑一样。
They learn how to do all these drills and move into it.
他们学习如何进行所有这些练习并投入其中。
And some of these things are complex, and it's not just about avoiding injury.
其中一些事情很复杂，这不仅仅是为了避免受伤。
It's about getting the most out of the exercise over time.
这是为了随着时间的推移充分利用锻炼。
That's kind of how I'm thinking about this.
我就是这么想的。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I think it's also making sure that you are using proper technique and full range of motion, because that's one of the other things that is often the first to go when we really try to load up.
我认为这也是确保你使用正确的技术和全方位的运动，因为这是当我们真正尝试加载时通常首先要做的事情之一。
And you see this with people squatting and benching all the time.
你会看到人们一直蹲着、坐在长凳上。
They're just adding another plate, but then cutting the range of motion short to accommodate that additional load.
他们只是添加另一个板，然后缩短运动范围以适应额外的负载。
And so that's not really progressive overload because you changed your range of motion.
所以这并不是真正的渐进式超负荷，因为你改变了你的运动范围。
So I think especially if a lift is technically demanding, something like a hinge, deadlift, good morning.
所以我认为特别是如果举重对技术要求很高，比如铰链、硬拉，早上好。
For a lot of people who've never done that movement pattern, it can be really difficult to just develop that kinesthetic awareness of where am I in space?
对于很多从未做过这种运动模式的人来说，仅仅培养我在太空中的位置的动觉意识可能真的很困难？
Am I bending my knees too much or not enough?
我的膝盖弯曲得太多还是不够？
Am I starting to round my upper back?
我的上背部开始变圆吗？
And when you can really understand the proper form, then you know how to load it.
当您真正理解正确的形式时，您就知道如何加载它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If a woman just feels lousy at one particular phase of her cycle, and that's a consistent month-to-month thing for her, and she doesn't want to train during that time, it sounded like there's no issue with that, that you're not suggesting that women push through that necessarily, that they We're on the West Coast, that they honor their feelings.
如果一个女人只是在她周期的某个特定阶段感觉很糟糕，这对她来说是每个月都会发生的事情，而且她不想在那段时间训练，听起来这没有问题，你并不是在建议女性一定要坚持下去，我们在西海岸，她们尊重自己的感受。
That's how the people speak out here.
这里的人就是这么说话的。
That they honor their feelings as opposed to push against the sense like this is just a tough time to do this.
他们尊重自己的感受，而不是像这样抵制这种感觉，但现在很难做到这一点。
But you're from New York, and you're giving me this look now where people are just listening.
但你来自纽约，你现在给我的表情是人们只是在听。
Lauren's looking at me like, "Yeah, that sounds like a I don't know." But I don't want to put words in your mouth.
劳伦看着我，好像在说：“是啊，听起来我不知道。”但我不想把话塞到你嘴里。
What are you thinking?
你在想什么？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Well, I'll tell you this.
好吧，我会告诉你这一点。
We have survey data looking at how many people report experiencing menstrual symptoms, things like cramps and low back pain, lack of motivation, irritability, and 75, 80% of women report feeling those symptoms, and none of them report changing their training in response to those symptoms.
我们有调查数据，了解有多少人报告经历过月经症状，如抽筋和腰痛、缺乏动力、烦躁，75%、80% 的女性报告感觉到这些症状，但没有人报告说为了应对这些症状而改变训练。
So, and not to say that you shouldn't, but typically, at least where the data shows, it's not that common that people are overhauling their training, even in response to menstrual symptoms.
所以，并不是说你不应该这样做，但通常情况下，至少在数据显示的情况下，人们彻底改变训练的情况并不常见，即使是为了应对月经症状。
That said, most people experience them for one or two days, so we're only talking about skipping or adjusting one, maybe two workouts.
也就是说，大多数人都会经历一两天，所以我们只讨论跳过或调整一次，也许两次锻炼。
So I don't feel that strongly about it either way.
所以无论哪种方式我都没有那么强烈的感觉。
I think it's up to you.
我认为这取决于你。
And like I said, there will be a variety of reasons within any given month why we show up to the gym and we don't feel our best, and some of those days, again, for a variety of reasons, we might decide to make some adjustments, and other days we might just decide to push through, and both are completely acceptable.
就像我说的，在任何一个月内，都会有各种各样的原因，导致我们去健身房却感觉不太好，而其中一些日子，同样，出于各种原因，我们可能决定做出一些调整，而其他日子我们可能只是决定坚持下去，而这两种情况都是完全可以接受的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's an unfortunate reality, but tap water often contains contaminants that negatively impact our health.
这是一个不幸的现实，但自来水通常含有对我们的健康产生负面影响的污染物。
In fact, a 2020 study by the Environmental Working Group estimated that more than 200 million Americans are exposed to PFAS chemicals, also known as forever chemicals, through drinking of tap water.
事实上，环境工作组 2020 年的一项研究估计，超过 2 亿美国人通过饮用自来水接触到 PFAS 化学物质（也称为永久化学物质）。
These forever chemicals are linked to serious health issues such as hormone disruption, gut microbiome disruption, fertility issues, and many other health problems.
这些永久性化学物质与严重的健康问题有关，例如激素紊乱、肠道微生物组破坏、生育问题和许多其他健康问题。
The Environmental Working Group has also shown that over 122 million Americans drink tap water with high levels of chemicals known to cause cancer.
环境工作组还表明，超过 1.22 亿美国人饮用的自来水含有大量已知致癌化学物质。
It's for all these reasons that I'm thrilled to have Rorra as a sponsor of this podcast.
出于所有这些原因，我很高兴 Rorra 作为这个播客的赞助商。
I've been using the Rorra countertop system for almost a year now.
我使用 Rorra 台面系统已经快一年了。
Rorra's filtration technology removes harmful substances, including endocrine disruptors and disinfection byproducts, while preserving beneficial minerals like magnesium and calcium.
Rorra 的过滤技术可去除有害物质，包括内分泌干扰物和消毒副产物，同时保留镁和钙等有益矿物质。
It requires no installation or plumbing, it's built from medical-grade stainless steel, and its sleek design fits beautifully on your countertop.
它不需要安装或管道，由医用级不锈钢制成，其时尚的设计非常适合您的台面。
In fact, I consider it a welcome addition to my kitchen.
事实上，我认为它对我的厨房来说是一个受欢迎的补充。
It looks great, and the water is delicious.
看起来很棒，水也很美味。
If you'd like to try Rorra, you can go to rorra.com/huberman and get an exclusive discount.
如果您想尝试 Rorra，可以访问 rorra.com/huberman 并获得独家折扣。
Again, that's Rorra, R-O-R-R-A.com/huberman.
再说一次，那是 Rorra，R-O-R-R-A.com/huberman。
If I'm not mistaken, you've looked at the data on the relationship between hormone-based contraception and effects of exercise.
如果我没记错的话，您已经查看了有关激素避孕与运动效果之间关系的数据。
And I want to be very clear, I said hormone-based contraception because there are so many different forms of contraception, some of which are hormone-based, some of which aren't.
我想说得很清楚，我说基于激素的避孕是因为有很多不同形式的避孕方法，其中一些是基于激素的，有些则不是。
And of course, within the domain of hormone-based, you've got estrogen-based, progestin-based, and there's others as well.
当然，在基于激素的领域内，有基于雌激素的、基于孕激素的，还有其他的。
What are the general and more specific takeaways from that literature?
该文献的一般性和更具体的结论是什么？
Does hormone-based contraception impact the adaptation to exercise, the motivation to exercise, or anything else that women should be aware of?
基于激素的避孕是否会影响对运动的适应、运动的动机或女性应该注意的其他事项？
What do the data say?
数据说明了什么？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
The majority of these studies are on folks taking combined oral contraceptive pills.
这些研究大部分是针对服用复方口服避孕药的人。
So this wouldn't apply to something like a hormonal IUD, or there's a patch that people are using now that it's a more modern take.
因此，这不适用于激素宫内节育器之类的东西，或者人们现在正在使用的补丁，它是一种更现代的方式。
But there is enough data at this point to say when it comes to strength, hypertrophy, power, we're not seeing combined oral contraceptive pills move the needle in either direction.
但目前有足够的数据表明，当谈到力量、肥大、爆发力时，我们没有看到复方口服避孕药向任何一个方向移动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
And there were appropriate hypotheses to say, "Oh, maybe this could be detrimental," or, "Maybe this could be beneficial." But what we see similar to the influence of the endogenous hormone fluctuations, which are quite substantial, if those aren't affecting performance or exercise-induced adaptations, it's not that shocking that the hormonal contraceptives wouldn't move the needle to a great extent either.
并且有适当的假设可以说，“哦，也许这可能是有害的”，或者“也许这可能是有益的”。但我们所看到的与内源性激素波动的影响类似，内源性激素波动的影响相当大，如果这些不影响表现或运动引起的适应，那么激素避孕药不会在很大程度上发挥作用也就不足为奇了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it's an excellent point.
是的，这是一个很好的观点。
If one just looks at the plot of estrogen levels or progesterone levels across the different phases of the menstrual cycle is these are enormous differences.
如果只看月经周期不同阶段的雌激素水平或孕激素水平图，就会发现这些差异是巨大的。
Likewise for testosterone and other hormones in women.
女性的睾酮和其他激素也是如此。
And you're making the point that hormone-based pill contraception isn't making changes in hormones of at least that magnitude, and so there's no reason to expect that it should impact at least ability.
你的观点是，基于激素的避孕药不会使激素发生至少那么大的变化，因此没有理由期望它至少会影响能力。
I can think of motivation to train, ability somehow, like if it relates somehow to contractility of the muscles or tendon strength or something, and then the actual adaptation.
我可以想到训练的动机、能力，比如它是否与肌肉的收缩力或肌腱的力量或其他东西有关，然后是实际的适应。
So it sounds like none of these things block the adaptation to exercise, the increase in muscle size or strength or both.
所以听起来这些事情都不会阻碍对运动的适应、肌肉大小或力量的增加或两者兼而有之。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
That's right.
没错。
And I would say if you're just starting a contraceptive pill, some people have symptoms and side effects, some of which are kind of attenuated over time and some of which are not, and you need to switch to something else.
我想说的是，如果您刚刚开始服用避孕药，有些人会出现症状和副作用，其中一些会随着时间的推移而减弱，而另一些则不会，您需要改用其他药物。
So you might for a short term because that pill is not a good fit for you, then there could be some short-term influence in that sense.
因此，您可能会短期服用，因为该药不太适合您，那么从这个意义上讲，可能会产生一些短期影响。
But on the flip side, a lot of people go on a hormonal contraceptive because they have really severe menstrual symptoms, and then that can be helpful in relieving that pain.
但另一方面，很多人服用激素避孕药是因为她们有非常严重的月经症状，这有助于缓解疼痛。
And so then you might be willing to go to the gym more frequently during the week where you have your menstrual period.
因此，您可能愿意在经期的那一周更频繁地去健身房。
So I think we can think about those kind of practical implications.
所以我认为我们可以考虑这些实际影响。
But in terms of just the hormones themselves and the fact that we're down-regulating the endogenous hormone production by introducing these synthetic hormones, that doesn't seem to impact performance or adaptations to exercise.
但就激素本身而言，以及我们通过引入这些合成激素来下调内源性激素产生的事实，这似乎不会影响表现或对运动的适应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What, if any, are the really good data around the relationship between perimenopause and menopause and the hormone changes that tend to occur, let's assume without hormone replacement therapy for the moment, and training?
如果有的话，关于围绝经期和更年期之间的关系以及可能发生的激素变化的真正好的数据是什么（如果有的话），让我们假设目前没有激素替代疗法和训练？
Should women change their training as they enter perimenopause, menopause?
女性在进入围绝经期、更年期时是否应该改变训练方式？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
There's no reason to change your training because we still want the same adaptations.
没有理由改变你的训练，因为我们仍然想要同样的适应。
We want to increase and maintain muscle size and strength.
我们想要增加并保持肌肉的大小和力量。
We want to reduce fall risk and fracture risk, maintain bone density.
我们希望降低跌倒风险和骨折风险，保持骨密度。
And so resistance training is going to be a really key component of an exercise program for somebody pre- and post-menopause.
因此，阻力训练将成为绝经前后人士锻炼计划的一个非常重要的组成部分。
I think the idea that somehow the hormonal changes would influence muscle are really tied to that same thought process that cycle syncing is based on.
我认为荷尔蒙变化会以某种方式影响肌肉的想法确实与周期同步所基于的相同思维过程有关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
And so it comes down to this hypothesis that there's this relationship between estrogen and muscle.
因此，我们可以得出这样的假设：雌激素和肌肉之间存在这种关系。
And so if estrogen is declining with menopause, then that would have some effect on muscle.
因此，如果雌激素随着更年期而下降，那么就会对肌肉产生一些影响。
But we don't see that.
但我们没有看到这一点。
We see age-related muscle loss that is exacerbated by physical inactivity.
我们发现与年龄相关的肌肉损失因缺乏身体活动而加剧。
But you look at lean mass across the menopause transition, and that in and of itself isn't accelerating the loss of muscle.
但你观察更年期过渡期间的瘦体重，你会发现它本身并没有加速肌肉的流失。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think for understandable reasons, there's this correlation that people draw between hormones and muscle.
我认为出于可以理解的原因，人们在激素和肌肉之间建立了这种关联。
And since resistance training is more kind of muscle-oriented, in people's minds anyway, you got tendon and bone, et cetera, than cardiovascular training.
由于阻力训练更以肌肉为导向，因此在人们看来，与心血管训练相比，你有肌腱和骨骼等。
It's a silly thing, but we kind of make that association.
这是一件愚蠢的事情，但我们确实建立了这种联系。
All these things around women's fitness, it's like should training change during different phases of the menstrual cycle?
所有这些围绕女性健身的事情，就像在月经周期的不同阶段训练是否应该改变？
Because after all, the menstrual cycle is hormones.
因为毕竟月经周期是荷尔蒙的作用。
Hormones affect how one feels, but also muscle.
荷尔蒙会影响一个人的感觉，也会影响肌肉。
Here we are back to muscle.
在这里我们又回到了肌肉。
The changes in muscle size and strength as one ages, in my understanding, are just as much a function of atrophy of nerve-to-muscle connections, the strength of those, as they are some drop in hormones.
根据我的理解，随着年龄的增长，肌肉大小和力量的变化既是神经与肌肉连接萎缩的结果，也是神经与肌肉连接强度的萎缩的结果，也是荷尔蒙下降的结果。
And I think it's never really been stated out loud, so I just want your thoughts on this.
我认为这从来没有被真正大声说过，所以我只想听听你对此的看法。
Do you think that if people understood that a lot of muscle and strength loss is inactivity, as you said, and inactivity brings a weakening of the nerve-to-muscle connection, that it might help us get away a little bit from this idea that everything about muscles is hormones, and everything about hormones is muscle?
你是否认为，如果人们明白，大量肌肉和力量的损失是由于不活动造成的，正如你所说，而不活动会削弱神经与肌肉的联系，那么这可能会帮助我们摆脱“肌肉的一切都是激素，激素的一切都是肌肉”的想法吗？
Now, they're equally important.
现在，它们同样重要。
I realize I'm leading the witness here a little bit, but I'll just out you.
我意识到我稍微引导了证人，但我会把你赶出去。
Your father's a neuroscientist.
你父亲是一位神经科学家。
How important is the nervous system and the changes that the nervous system normally undergoes as one ages important here?
神经系统有多重要以及神经系统随着年龄的增长而通常发生的变化在这里很重要？
Is that what we're trying to do, or are we trying to offset some of that?
这是我们正在努力做的事情，还是我们正在努力抵消其中的一些影响？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
It's important too because we need to maintain those connections for all movement patterns, right?
这也很重要，因为我们需要为所有运动模式维持这些联系，对吗？
And so when we see long periods of physical inactivity, think immobilization or bed rest, the rate at which you lose muscle is shocking.
因此，当我们看到长时间不运动时，想想固定或卧床休息，你失去肌肉的速度是令人震惊的。
It's really, really dramatic.
这真的非常非常戏剧化。
And so we know that is a very extreme model of atrophy that we want to avoid.
所以我们知道这是一种我们想要避免的非常极端的萎缩模型。
But there are other versions of that in just daily kind of sedentary life.
但在日常生活中久坐的生活中还有其他版本。
You're not on bed rest, and you're not technically immobilized, but you're moving so infrequently that you are exacerbating muscle loss.
您没有卧床休息，从技术上讲您也没有被固定，但您移动的频率太低，从而加剧了肌肉损失。
And even if you are just physically active, even if you're not lifting weights, you're much more likely to maintain that muscle.
即使你只是进行身体活动，即使你没有举重，你也更有可能保持肌肉。
But once you stop being physically active, then we run into a lot of problems.
但一旦你停止身体活动，我们就会遇到很多问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If more people understood the neural aspect of all this exercise stuff and muscle and how that relates to fitness and brain health, I think it would help men and women kind of get around this thing that you mentioned earlier.
如果更多的人了解所有这些运动和肌肉的神经方面以及它与健身和大脑健康的关系，我认为这将有助于男性和女性绕过您之前提到的这个问题。
It's just kind of hovering in my mind that so much of the way that fitness has presented, exercise has been presented to women is around weight loss.
我脑海中一直萦绕着这样的想法：健身、锻炼向女性展示的大部分方式都是围绕减肥。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And now the conversation seems to be changing.
现在谈话似乎正在发生变化。
It's about longevity, it's about maintaining muscle, it's about maintaining brain health and not getting injured.
这关系到长寿，关系到维持肌肉，关系到保持大脑健康和不受伤。
And so it seems like it's morphing slightly.
所以看起来它正在轻微变形。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I think that is missed in resistance training because we just think about it at the muscle level.
我认为阻力训练中忽略了这一点，因为我们只是在肌肉层面考虑它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
But when we think about motor unit recruitment, that is a neural pathway.
但当我们考虑运动单位募集时，这是一条神经通路。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
And we need all of those to stay intact to perform any kind of motor function.
我们需要所有这些保持完整才能执行任何类型的运动功能。
And so when we are lifting weights, we're not exclusively building muscle, and that's why we see tendon adaptations, bone adaptations, everything is connected.
因此，当我们举重时，我们不仅仅是在锻炼肌肉，这就是为什么我们看到肌腱适应、骨骼适应，一切都是相互关联的。
And it's also why if you're somebody who is aging, but you're physically active in a way that requires a certain type of coordination, maybe it's pickleball, that that is really helpful as well.
这也是为什么如果你是一个上了年纪的人，但你的身体活动需要某种类型的协调性，也许是泡菜球，那也确实很有帮助。
I think the idea that you have to go to the gym is intimidating for some people because a lot of women in their minds think that they're going to be the only woman in the gym That's less and less true, but in my experience, the weight room is still probably a male-dominated section of the gym.
我认为必须去健身房的想法对某些人来说是令人生畏的，因为很多女性认为自己将成为健身房中唯一的女性。这越来越不真实，但根据我的经验，举重室可能仍然是健身房中男性主导的部分。
I think the biggest fear is not knowing what to do.
我认为最大的恐惧是不知道该怎么做。
And machines can be a really good place to start if you're somebody who doesn't want to work with a trainer and is a little bit nervous about trying to self-teach those movement patterns with barbells or dumbbells.
如果您不想与教练一起工作，并且对尝试用杠铃或哑铃自学这些运动模式感到有点紧张，那么机器可能是一个非常好的起点。
A lot of commercial gyms these days have a circuit of machines, and you can start there and kind of get comfortable with those movement patterns, get comfortable with what is challenging, what is close to failure, and then progress to some of these other exercises and equipment.
如今，许多商业健身房都有一系列机器，您可以从那里开始，熟悉这些运动模式，熟悉具有挑战性的事物，接近失败的事物，然后进行其他一些练习和设备。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
When I've tried to encourage female family members to weight train, like, "I don't want to go to a gym." Like, "Why not?" They're like, "I like my yoga class.
当我试图鼓励女性家庭成员进行重量训练时，比如，“我不想去健身房。”就像，“为什么不呢？”他们就像，“我喜欢我的瑜伽课。
I like Pilates.
我喜欢普拉提。
I like going for hikes." What do you think are some things that women could do to sort of lower those barriers for people?
我喜欢去远足。”您认为女性可以做哪些事情来降低人们的障碍？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Starting with group fitness, because even though most group fitness classes are suboptimal from the perspective of a sound resistance training program, it gets you into the gym.
从团体健身开始，因为即使从健全的阻力训练计划的角度来看，大多数团体健身课程都不是最佳的，但它可以让你进入健身房。
It gets you feeling comfortable.
它让你感觉很舒服。
It will teach you some of those movement patterns that we've discussed.
它将教您一些我们讨论过的运动模式。
And then maybe after class, you and a couple of friends that you've made in class can go and try out a couple of machines.
然后也许下课后，你和你在课堂上结识的几个朋友可以去尝试几台机器。
And so you can kind of ease into it that way.
所以你可以这样轻松地进入它。
And people gravitate towards group fitness because it's social, and you have an appointment because you have to be there at a specific time.
人们倾向于集体健身，因为它是社交性的，而且你有预约，因为你必须在特定的时间去那里。
So that can be another good kind of entry point to get you going to the gym without feeling overwhelmed by exercises you're not sure how to perform or equipment that you're not sure how to use.
因此，这可能是另一种很好的切入点，让您去健身房时不会因不确定如何进行的锻炼或不确定如何使用的设备而感到不知所措。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In terms of the relationship between hormones, menstrual cycle, and training, I know I'm staying on this, but it comes up on social media.
就荷尔蒙、月经周期和训练之间的关系而言，我知道我会坚持下去，但它出现在社交媒体上。
I don't know what percentage of questions that you get on social media relate to hormones and training as they relate to one another.
我不知道你在社交媒体上收到的与激素和训练相关的问题占多大比例，因为它们是相互关联的。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
It's a lot.
很多。
I think now more than ever, you're just seeing more and more of this messaging pop up.
我认为现在你会比以往任何时候都看到越来越多的此类消息弹出。
And with the menstrual cycle, it's not only about exercise.
对于月经周期来说，这不仅仅是锻炼的问题。
I see the way you should eat differently due to cycle phase, the way you should work differently, the way you should socialize differently.
我认为，由于周期阶段，你应该以不同的方式饮食，你应该以不同的方式工作，你应该以不同的方式进行社交。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
There are all of these messages that are saying you need to kind of overhaul this aspect of your life to align with these phases.
所有这些信息都表明你需要彻底改变生活的这一方面，以适应这些阶段。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is there any evidence that resistance training can help ameliorate some of the negative symptoms of certain phases of the cycle that women might be experiencing?
是否有任何证据表明阻力训练可以帮助改善女性可能经历的月经周期某些阶段的一些负面症状？
In other words, do they often feel better by training during the most difficult phase of their cycle?
换句话说，他们是否经常通过在周期中最困难的阶段进行训练而感觉更好？
Has that ever been demonstrated?
这有被证明过吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Not with resistance training specifically, but with physical activity, sure.
当然，不是专门针对阻力训练，而是针对体育活动。
It can definitely help, because if you have something like cramps, then just kind of doing something to increase blood flow, even if it's going for a walk, can be helpful.
这绝对有帮助，因为如果你有抽筋之类的情况，那么只要做一些增加血液流动的事情，即使是散步，也会有帮助。
And it also kind of gets your mind off of it, so you're not actually sitting there kind of focusing on the fact that you're uncomfortable.
而且它也会让你忘记它，所以你实际上并没有坐在那里专注于你不舒服的事实。
And it depends on the person, but I think some sort of physical activity can be beneficial, and that's something that you should consider exploring, whether it's resistance training or anything else.
这取决于人，但我认为某种体育活动可能是有益的，这是你应该考虑探索的事情，无论是阻力训练还是其他什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What about the nutrition aspect and the menstrual cycle?
营养方面和月经周期怎么样？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
The nutrition data is pretty poor because, as is most nutrition data, it's kind of self-report.
营养数据非常糟糕，因为与大多数营养数据一样，它是一种自我报告。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
And so we're saying observationally, people tend to eat a little bit more in this phase versus that phase on average, based on self-reported food diaries.
因此，我们观察到，根据自我报告的食物日记，人们在这个阶段平均比那个阶段吃得更多一些。
Does that mean that you should change caloric intake or protein intake or carbohydrate intake?
这是否意味着您应该改变热量摄入量或蛋白质摄入量或碳水化合物摄入量？
We don't have the data to support any of that.
我们没有数据支持任何这些。
And a lot of it comes back to this theory that you have a kind of anabolic phase or a catabolic phase, and so that extended from, "Oh, you should focus on more resistance training during this phase" to, "Oh, well, then you must need more protein in this other phase."
很多都回到了这个理论，即你有一种合成代谢阶段或分解代谢阶段，因此从“哦，你应该在这个阶段专注于更多的阻力训练”扩展到“哦，好吧，那么你在另一个阶段必须需要更多的蛋白质”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So what kind of started as a hypothesis about anabolic and catabolic states has twisted into changing your exercise program and changing your diet, among other things.
因此，最初作为关于合成代谢和分解代谢状态的假设已经转变为改变你的锻炼计划和改变你的饮食等等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I spoke to a couple different women prior to sitting down with you today because I needed data from actual women as opposed to my ideas about what they might be thinking, or what I see online.
在今天与你们坐下来之前，我与几位不同的女性进行了交谈，因为我需要来自真实女性的数据，而不是我对她们可能在想什么或我在网上看到的内容的想法。
These are people I'm close with, and I believe they were honest with me.
这些都是我很亲近的人，我相信他们对我很诚实。
And it wasn't an enormous poll.
这并不是一次大规模的民意调查。
This is not an official study.
这不是一项官方研究。
But I heard something at least three times out of the five people I spoke to, and it was this: "I know I should lift weights, but I feel like I get enough muscle training from my Pilates or yoga." And I said, "Yeah, but couldn't those things be really different than resistance training?" And the answer that I got back was similar in several cases, which was, "Yeah, but my Pilates teacher, she looks awesome, and she has tons of energy, and she's 10 years older than me, and I want to look like her, so I'm going to do Pilates." And I said, "Well, does she lift weights?" And she said, "No, she just does Pilates." And then I said, "Well, I wonder if she did gymnastics when we were younger." And then pretty soon, I'm now the guy having this conversation, trying to essentially negotiate something I have no interest in negotiating.
但在与我交谈的五个人中，我至少听到了三句话，那就是：“我知道我应该举重，但我觉得我从普拉提或瑜伽中得到了足够的肌肉训练。”我说：“是的，但是这些东西难道就不能和阻力训练有什么不同吗？”在几个案例中我得到的答案都是相似的，那就是，“是的，但是我的普拉提老师，她看起来棒极了，而且她有很多能量，而且她比我大10岁，我想看起来像她，所以我要去学普拉提。”我说：“那么，她举重吗？”她说：“不，她只是做普拉提。”然后我说：“嗯，我想知道我们年轻时她是否练过体操。”很快，我就成为了进行这次对话的人，试图本质上谈判一些我没有兴趣谈判的事情。
But it gave me a window into something that I think might be pretty common, which is that We all look at somebody and what they're doing and we go, "Oh, that seems like a look that is reasonable and attractive, and I would want that.
但它给了我一个窗口，让我看到一些我认为可能很常见的东西，那就是我们都看着某人和他们正在做的事情，我们会说，“哦，这看起来是合理且有吸引力的，我想要那样。
And they seem to be kicking butt in life and happy, and I'm going to just do that." And so what do you say to women who perhaps think they're as muscular as they want to be now, doing Pilates and walking, and maybe doing some other activities, but they're not doing resistance training.
他们的生活似乎很顺利而且很快乐，我就会这么做。”那么，对于那些可能认为自己像现在想要的那样肌肉发达、做普拉提和散步，也许还做一些其他活动，但她们没有进行阻力训练的女性，你有什么想说的呢？
Is there some reason why they should be motivated to also resistance train?
是否有某种原因应该激励他们进行阻力训练？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
What you're describing is very common, and unfortunately for the vast majority of people, they then go and do the exercise class or follow what this person eats in a day, and they never end up looking like that person.
你所描述的情况很常见，不幸的是，对于绝大多数人来说，他们然后去参加锻炼课程或遵循这个人一天吃的东西，但他们永远不会看起来像那个人。
Because we have genetic factors, nutritional factors, exercise factors, and sometimes no matter what, we're not going to have the body of this other person.
因为我们有遗传因素、营养因素、运动因素，有时无论如何，我们都不会拥有另一个人的身体。
But Pilates is particularly guilty of promising these dramatic changes in body composition, and that if you do this class, that you're going to get toned, you're going to increase your muscle mass and get these long, lean lines, or you'll look like a dancer.
但普拉提尤其因承诺身体成分的这些巨大变化而感到内疚，如果你参加这门课，你就会变得健美，你会增加你的肌肉质量并获得这些又长又瘦的线条，否则你会看起来像一个舞者。
And so when we use that word, which we don't, toned, but when people use it, they mean increase muscle size and decrease body fat.
因此，当我们使用这个词时（我们不使用“toned”），但当人们使用它时，他们的意思是增加肌肉大小并减少身体脂肪。
And the most effective and efficient way to accomplish that is through resistance training to increase muscle size and through nutritional adjustments to decrease body fat.
实现这一目标的最有效和高效的方法是通过阻力训练来增加肌肉大小，并通过营养调整来减少体内脂肪。
Even if you're happy doing the Pilates and walking right now, and I'm not saying give that up, because I'm a fan of all physical activity that people enjoy, but it is not sufficient resistance, it's not progressive resistance to stave off that age-related muscle loss that I mentioned.
即使你现在很高兴做普拉提和散步，我并不是说放弃，因为我是人们喜欢的所有体育活动的粉丝，但这不是足够的阻力，也不是渐进的阻力来避免我提到的与年龄相关的肌肉损失。
All we need is two 20-minute workouts per week, full body resistance training, to make a pretty powerful impact on trying to attenuate some of that decline.
我们所需要的只是每周两次每次 20 分钟的锻炼，全身阻力训练，以对减缓这种衰退产生相当大的影响。
And losing muscle mass, increasing fall risk, fracture risk, all of those downstream health effects that lead to an existence in your 80s or 90s that is not very functionally independent, we don't want that.
肌肉质量下降、跌倒风险增加、骨折风险增加，所有这些下游健康影响都会导致你在 80 多岁或 90 多岁的时候在功能上不再独立，我们不希望这样。
And so if we know we can implement this and it's not that much of a time investment, it's not that much of a financial investment, it's kind of a no-brainer.
因此，如果我们知道我们可以实现这一点，而且这不是太多的时间投资，也不是太多的财务投资，这是理所当然的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm so glad you mentioned the genetic piece, because genetics are huge when it comes to lean mass to non-lean mass body ratio.
我很高兴你提到了基因部分，因为当谈到去脂体重与非去脂体重的比例时，遗传学是巨大的。
Obviously, people over-consume calories, they're going to gain weight.
显然，人们摄入过多的卡路里，他们就会增加体重。
Some people more quickly than others, perhaps.
也许有些人比其他人更快。
But it's such a big factor.
但这是一个很大的因素。
It seems to me that so is someone having done strength and speed sports when they were younger.
在我看来，年轻时做过力量和速度运动的人也是如此。
You look at someone who was a gymnast, a sprinter, a pole vaulter, a competitive tennis player, any kind of speed type movement, and I've noticed even when they just do yoga or something in their 30s, I know this because as a graduate student, as you know, when I was in my 20s and then a postdoc in my 30s, I was exercising less, and the people around you are exercising less, so you're just doing experiments all the time and studying all the time.
你看看那些曾经是体操运动员、短跑运动员、撑竿跳高运动员、竞技网球运动员、任何类型的速度型运动的人，我注意到，即使他们在 30 多岁的时候只做瑜伽或其他运动，我知道这一点，因为作为一名研究生，如你所知，当我 20 多岁，然后是 30 多岁的博士后时，我锻炼得较少，而你周围的人锻炼得也较少，所以你只是在做实验时间和所有时间都在学习。
And some people just seem to stay really fit through that, and you go, "What do you do?" And they're like, "Oh, these days I just do yoga." "Did you play a sport in high school?" "Yeah, I was D1 soccer, gymnast." And I do think that people who play these competitive sports early in life, they hold onto a certain amount of musculature.
有些人似乎通过这一切仍然保持健康，然后你就会问：“你是做什么的？”他们就像，“哦，这些天我只做瑜伽。” “你高中时参加过体育运动吗？” “是的，我是 D1 足球运动员、体操运动员。”我确实认为，在生命早期参加这些竞技运动的人，他们会保持一定量的肌肉组织。
Now, maybe there's a selection bias that led them to be a D1 athlete combined with training.
现在，也许存在选择偏差，导致他们成为 D1 运动员并接受训练。
So they had genetics that then they built on.
所以他们有他们赖以生存的遗传学。
But I feel like these situations are very misleading, and with men, it tends to be misleading where somebody is extremely muscular and lean.
但我觉得这些情况非常具有误导性，对于男性来说，如果某人肌肉非常发达且瘦弱，那么往往会产生误导。
I think of my friend Naseem.
我想起了我的朋友纳西姆。
He does a podcast with Mark Bell.
他与马克·贝尔一起制作播客。
Seem is completely steroid and TRT free.
似乎完全不含类固醇和 TRT。
He really is.
他确实是。
I believe him, and actually to speak to your earlier point, his testosterone, he's shown his charts, is somewhere in the mid fives.
我相信他，实际上，就你之前的观点而言，他的睾丸激素，他展示了他的图表，在五岁左右。
The guy, his muscle density is insane.
这家伙，他的肌肉密度太疯狂了。
He walks around with 8% body fat.
他走路时体脂只有 8%。
He's a terrific athlete, et cetera.
他是一位出色的运动员，等等。
He has genetic gifts that he's built upon with very hard work.
他拥有遗传天赋，这是他通过努力工作建立起来的。
So I can't look at him and say, "Oh, I'm going to just do what he does." The parallel in women's fitness, and I don't want to discount the women out there who want to be very muscular, but let's just consider the averages here.
所以我不能看着他说：“哦，我要做他做的事。”女性健身方面的相似之处，我不想低估那些想要变得肌肉发达的女性，但让我们只考虑这里的平均值。
They might look at their Pilates teacher, and she might've been a gymnast who was also slightly genetically gifted and now can just do that.
他们可能会看看他们的普拉提老师，她可能是一名体操运动员，也有轻微的遗传天赋，现在可以做到这一点。
No one talks about this, and it really contorts people's thinking and people are trying to figure out what to do, what to eat, et cetera.
没有人谈论这个，它确实扭曲了人们的思维，人们试图弄清楚该做什么、吃什么等等。
So I'd love for you to elaborate on this a bit more if you think it's appropriate.
因此，如果您认为合适的话，我希望您能详细说明这一点。
But no one acknowledges this.
但没有人承认这一点。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I share your hypothesis about the activity you do as a kid.
我同意你对你小时候所做的活动的假设。
Even if you don't become an elite athlete, I think that is something that does kind of stick with you.
即使你没有成为一名精英运动员，我认为这也会让你难以忘怀。
And let's say you were a child gymnast and then you pick up lifting in your 20s.
假设您是一名儿童体操运动员，然后在 20 多岁时开始练习举重。
I see women develop that upper body strength a lot more easily because I think they were doing that in childhood.
我发现女性更容易发展上半身力量，因为我认为她们在童年时期就这样做了。
The genetic variability is huge because it's the structure, our bone structure, our muscle insertions The size of our waist.
遗传变异性很大，因为它的结构、我们的骨骼结构、我们的肌肉插入、我们腰部的尺寸。
There are certain things that we can't change.
有些事情是我们无法改变的。
You can't change your shape.
你无法改变你的形状。
Yes, we can gain fat, lose fat, gain muscle, lose muscle, but some people have naturally broader shoulders or have delt insertions that mean they have that look of these capped shoulders, or they just don't carry a lot of body fat on their arms or on their legs.
是的，我们可以增加脂肪，减少脂肪，增加肌肉，减少肌肉，但有些人天生就有更宽的肩膀，或者有三角肌插入，这意味着他们的肩膀看起来很窄，或者他们只是手臂或腿上没有大量的身体脂肪。
And so, where we tend to store fat or distribute that fat varies from person to person.
因此，我们倾向于储存脂肪或分配脂肪的地方因人而异。
The place in which we lose fat first and last will vary, and often when you compare yourself to somebody with a very different structure, perhaps they have a metabolism that allows for them to maintain a certain body weight or a certain body fat at a really comfortable caloric intake.
我们首先和最后减掉脂肪的地方会有所不同，通常当你将自己与结构非常不同的人进行比较时，也许他们的新陈代谢允许他们在非常舒适的热量摄入下保持一定的体重或一定的身体脂肪。
Whereas for you to maintain that certain level of body size or body fat would require a very uncomfortable, unsustainable level of caloric intake, and that is just is what it is.
然而，要保持一定水平的体型或体脂，就需要非常不舒服、不可持续的热量摄入水平，而事实就是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In the old days of fitness, meaning when I started in the '90s, it's not old days, but here I am.
在过去的健身时代，即我在 90 年代开始健身的时候，那不是过去的时代，但我现在就在这里。
There was this idea of ectomorph, endomorph, and mesomorph.
有外胚型、内胚型和中胚型的概念。
We don't hear that anymore.
我们不再听到这样的声音了。
Ectomorph being very thin, long, sinewy muscles, small joints, quote unquote, "hard gainer." There was mesomorph, which is the kind of more muscular, somewhat lean perhaps.
外胚型的人非常瘦、长、肌肉发达、关节小，引用原话是“很难获得成功的人”。有中胚型，即肌肉更加发达，也许有些瘦。
And then there was the endomorph idea, somebody carrying a lot of excess body fat kind of idea.
然后就有了内胚型的想法，即某人体内有大量多余的脂肪。
Is that just completely irrelevant now in terms of picking training programs?
现在就选择培训项目而言，这是否完全无关？
Have we just really landed in a place where it's all about, "Hey, listen, if you're a endomorph, you're eating more than you should.
我们是否真的陷入了这样一个境地：“嘿，听着，如果你是一个内胚型人，你吃的就比你应该吃的多了。
There's muscle under there, perhaps.
也许下面有肌肉。
If you're an ectomorph, you're just maintaining a very low body weight.
如果您是外胚型，您只是保持非常低的体重。
You need to lift more and eat more." Is there any reality to this?
你需要举更多的东西，吃更多的东西。”这有什么现实意义吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I could be wrong, but I think those labels and those descriptors don't even come from any sort of physiology, research, or framework.
我可能是错的，但我认为这些标签和描述符甚至不是来自任何生理学、研究或框架。
I think they come from psychology, which makes no sense given that we're using them to describe how one might expect to adapt to training.
我认为它们来自心理学，考虑到我们用它们来描述人们期望如何适应训练，这是没有意义的。
You can say, oh, if you're somebody who is kind of skinny, maybe you can expect to be a hard gainer, but sometimes that's not the case at all.
你可以说，哦，如果你是一个有点瘦的人，也许你可以期望成为一个很难增肌的人，但有时情况根本不是这样。
You see teenage boys that were kind of skin and bones and lanky, and then they start lifting, and they blow up.
你会看到十几岁的男孩骨瘦如柴，瘦长，然后他们开始举重，然后爆炸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, I raised my hand right as you said blow up.
哦，当你说炸毁时我就举起了手。
I didn't blow up, but I was 6'1", 150 pounds.
我没有爆炸，但我身高 6 英尺 1 英寸，体重 150 磅。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And in my first year of training, I think I put on like 25, 30 pounds of, maybe it wasn't all muscle, but that didn't continue.
在我训练的第一年，我想我增加了大约 25 到 30 磅，也许这并不全是肌肉，但这种情况并没有持续下去。
It definitely can happen.
这绝对有可能发生。
But I also knew guys that when we finished junior high school, they were built even though they had never touched a weight.
但我也知道，当我们初中毕业时，即使他们从未接触过重物，他们也已经建成了。
They were like my bulldog, Costello, who had these huge forearms, he never touched a weight.
他们就像我的斗牛犬科斯特洛，有巨大的前臂，但他从来没有碰过重物。
So I do think the genetic variation piece is huge.
所以我确实认为遗传变异是巨大的。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
There's also the height component, too, though.
不过，还有高度因素。
Because if you think about if you are 5'6" and you have the same kind of relative muscle mass as somebody who is 5'11", you are going to look way more muscular than the tall counterpart.
因为如果你考虑一下，如果你身高 5 英尺 6 英寸，并且你的相对肌肉质量与身高 5 英尺 11 英寸的人相同，那么你看起来会比高个子的人肌肉发达得多。
So if the person who's 5'11" or 6'2" wants to look really muscular, they're going to have to put on a lot of mass because they're taller.
因此，如果身高 5 英尺 11 英寸或 6 英尺 2 英寸的人想要看起来非常肌肉发达，他们就必须增加大量的体重，因为他们更高。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
Last year, I became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
去年，在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我成为了 Function 成员。
Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health.
Function 提供 100 多项高级实验室测试，为您提供整个身体健康状况的关键快照。
This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more.
此快照为您提供有关心脏健康、激素健康、免疫功能、营养水平等方面的见解。
They've also recently added tests for toxins, such as BPA exposure from harmful plastics, and tests for PFAS, or forever chemicals.
他们最近还增加了毒素测试，例如有害塑料中的 BPA 暴露，以及 PFAS 或永久化学物质的测试。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas.
Function 不仅提供对您的身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标记物的测试，而且还分析这些结果并提供相关领域专家的顶级医生的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量升高。
Function not only helped me detect that but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, I'd been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification.
功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，还提供了如何最好地降低汞含量的见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼消费，我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力多吃绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒。
And I should say, by taking a second Function test, that approach worked.
我应该说，通过进行第二次功能测试，这种方法奏效了。
Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important.
全面的血液检测至关重要。
There are so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test.
有很多与您的心理和身体健康相关的事情只能通过血液检查来检测。
The problem is blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated.
问题是血液检测一直非常昂贵且复杂。
In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost.
相比之下，Function 的简单性和成本水平给我留下了深刻的印象。
It is very affordable.
这是非常实惠的。
As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
因此，我决定加入他们的科学顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Function，可以访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman podcast listeners.
Function 目前有超过 250,000 人的等待名单，但他们正在为 Huberman 播客听众提供早期访问服务。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
So let's talk about training fasted or not training fasted.
那么我们来谈谈空腹训练或不空腹训练。
I'm chuckling because there are these times when I think, oh, recently it got really intense online.
我笑了，因为有时我会想，哦，最近网上的事情变得非常激烈。
Should women train fasted or not train fasted?
女性应该空腹训练还是不空腹训练？
Coming from the world of research science, which we both do, these, quote unquote, "battles" online, they're like nothing because in the end, it really boils down to what do we know, what do we not know?
来自研究科学研究的世界，我们都在做这些，网上的“战斗”，它们毫无意义，因为最终，它真的归结为我们知道什么，我们不知道什么？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Battles in science get down to two people looking at the same graph and arguing about it, like that one piece of data out on the plot.
科学领域的斗争归结为两个人看着同一张图表并争论它，就像图中的一个数据一样。
We're not really arguing data when we're arguing mass experience.
当我们争论大众经验时，我们并不是在争论数据。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What is the data, the laboratory data, on women training fasted in terms of fat loss, muscle gain, strength gain, and just whether or not it's a good or bad idea on the whole?
关于女性禁食训练在减脂、增肌、增力量方面的数据、实验室数据是什么？总体来说这是好是坏？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I'm glad you bring up the data piece, because in some of these conversations, there's a lot of extrapolation of a potential mechanism, and that's not where we lean when we develop our recommendations about exercise and nutrition.
我很高兴你提出了这些数据，因为在其中一些对话中，有很多对潜在机制的推断，而这并不是我们在制定有关运动和营养的建议时所依赖的。
We need to look at the data in the population of interest, humans, measuring the outcome we are interested in using the intervention that we're discussing.
我们需要查看感兴趣的人群（人类）的数据，衡量我们感兴趣的使用我们正在讨论的干预措施的结果。
So in the case of fed and fasted-state training, this has been looked at on longer-term studies, so consistent fasted-state training, not just an acute bout of fasted-state training.
因此，就进食和禁食状态训练而言，我们已经在长期研究中对此进行了研究，因此一致的禁食状态训练，而不仅仅是急性的禁食状态训练。
And the muscle growth and fat loss adaptations to exercise are the same in men and in women.
男性和女性对运动的肌肉生长和脂肪减少适应是相同的。
And there was a school of thought that fasted training might be beneficial for fat loss, so like 2012 maybe.
有一个学派认为禁食训练可能有益于减脂，也许就像 2012 年那样。
And everyone was doing fasted cardio thinking it was going to accelerate their fat loss because they were exercising in a fasted state and oxidizing more fat because they were fasted acutely.
每个人都在进行空腹有氧运动，认为这会加速他们的减脂，因为他们在空腹状态下锻炼，并且因为剧烈空腹而氧化更多的脂肪。
Turns out that acute fat oxidation or fat oxidation post-workout isn't meaningful enough to offset the rest of the metabolism throughout the day such that you don't lose more body fat long term.
事实证明，急性脂肪氧化或锻炼后的脂肪氧化不足以抵消全天其余的新陈代谢，因此从长远来看，您不会失去更多的身体脂肪。
Now the pendulum has kind of swung in the other direction, and the argument is that if you're training fasted, you're going to gain fat or lose muscle.
现在，钟摆已经朝另一个方向摆动了，争论的焦点是，如果你禁食训练，你就会增加脂肪或减少肌肉。
And that doesn't make a whole lot of sense either because when we wake up in the morning, we ate dinner last night.
这也没有多大意义，因为当我们早上醒来时，我们昨晚吃了晚饭。
We have stored glycogen, and most resistance training sessions aren't extremely glycogen depleting anyway.
我们已经储存了糖原，而且大多数阻力训练课程并不会极度消耗糖原。
So unless we're going to do some really long-form endurance training, in which case, yeah, it's probably wise to have something to eat beforehand to fuel that long session, the decision to train fed or fasted should be based on personal preference.
因此，除非我们要做一些真正长时间的耐力训练，在这种情况下，是的，提前吃点东西来补充长时间的训练可能是明智的，那么进食或禁食训练的决定应该基于个人喜好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you have a personal preference?
您有个人偏好吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
If I go in the morning, I always train fasted.
如果我早上去，我总是空腹训练。
If I go later in the day, I've eaten.
如果我当天晚些时候去的话，我已经吃过饭了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Caffeine before you train?
训练前喝咖啡因？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Always.
总是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
For the just general alertness or also performance-enhancing effects of caffeine?
咖啡因只是为了提高警觉性还是提高表现？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I notice more the general alertness, but it's probably hard to separate those.
我更注意到普遍的警觉性，但可能很难区分它们。
I think we see more performance benefits if you go from being caffeine naive, and I am not.
我认为，如果你不再只接触咖啡因，我们会看到更多的性能优势，但我不是。
I'm very habituated at this point, so I'm probably not seeing that many performance benefits.
我现在已经非常习惯了，所以我可能没有看到那么多的性能优势。
But yeah, I definitely feel it when I don't have caffeine pre-workout.
但是，是的，当我在锻炼前不摄入咖啡因时，我确实有这种感觉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
90% of adults in the world drink caffeine every day, and it turns out one of the hardest things to do about running a study on caffeine is getting people to not drink caffeine for two weeks to do a washout because otherwise you end up studying caffeine withdrawal versus people who are continuing to drink caffeine.
世界上 90% 的成年人每天都会喝咖啡因，事实证明，进行一项关于咖啡因的研究最困难的事情之一就是让人们两周内不喝咖啡因来进行清除，否则你最终会研究咖啡因戒断和继续喝咖啡因的人。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I spend a lot of time with this literature, and it's a maddening literature.
我花了很多时间研究这些文学作品，这是一部令人发狂的文学作品。
I'm right there with you, a total caffeine addict, and I'm cool.
我就在你身边，一个彻底的咖啡因成瘾者，我很酷。
So I'm Andrew.
所以我是安德鲁。
I'm a caffeine addict and proud of it.
我是一个咖啡因成瘾者并为此感到自豪。
So if you were going to ingest food before you train, and given that most resistance training sessions are not glycogen depleting, which you said, is there any advantage to having some starchy carbohydrate before resistance training that's independent of glycogen?
因此，如果您要在训练前摄入食物，并且考虑到大多数阻力训练课程不会消耗糖原（正如您所说），那么在阻力训练之前吃一些独立于糖原的淀粉类碳水化合物有什么好处吗？
Is there any value to eating a given food before training?
在训练前吃特定的食物有什么价值吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Might make you feel better.
可能会让你感觉好一点。
You might feel like you have more energy.
您可能会觉得自己有更多精力。
You might feel better in the gym.
你在健身房可能会感觉更好。
Other people feel like they have GI issues if they eat too close to a workout, and so they prefer to eat afterwards.
其他人则认为，如果在锻炼前后进食太接近，就会出现胃肠道问题，因此他们更喜欢在锻炼后进食。
So I think if you are someone who wants to experiment with both, then have at it.
所以我认为如果你想同时尝试这两种方法，那就尝试一下吧。
But for resistance training, the composition of the meal you're eating pre-workout is very unlikely to be used as fuel in that workout.
但对于阻力训练来说，锻炼前所吃的膳食成分不太可能在锻炼中用作燃料。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Really?
真的吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Well, if we are eating right before we train, then we still need to digest and absorb those nutrients.
好吧，如果我们在训练前吃东西，那么我们仍然需要消化和吸收这些营养。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So I guess it depends what it is that we're consuming.
所以我想这取决于我们消费的是什么。
If you're consuming one of those liquid packs that people consume during a marathon.
如果您正在服用人们在马拉松比赛中服用的液体包装之一。
Do you know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, the GU packs?
是啊，GU包？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So that's really-
所以这真的是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Got you
得到你了
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
...
...
fast-generating.
快速生成。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
But if we're going to have some oats or something, then if I'm eating my oats and going to the gym, I'm probably not using that as my fuel for that workout.
但如果我们要吃一些燕麦或其他东西，那么如果我吃燕麦并去健身房，我可能不会用它作为锻炼的燃料。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What about post-workout nutrition?
运动后的营养怎么样？
For many years, there were all sorts of ideas.
多年来，有各种各样的想法。
You have a unique opportunity to store more glycogen.
您有一个独特的机会来储存更多糖原。
To this day, I still have some fruit and some starch and a protein drink after I train.
直到今天，训练后我仍然会喝一些水果、一些淀粉和蛋白质饮料。
Does it matter if it's in the first 30 to 90 minutes in terms of the adaptation?
就适应而言，是否在前 30 到 90 分钟有关系吗？
This is all independent of hunger and kind of what makes one feel better.
这一切都与饥饿无关，并且能让人感觉更好。
I'm just thinking in terms of recovering more quickly to be able to train again and get back to work and do other things.
我只是在考虑更快地恢复，以便能够再次训练并回去工作并做其他事情。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So the training is the stimulus for the adaptation or muscle growth, if we're talking about resistance training.
因此，如果我们谈论阻力训练，训练就是适应或肌肉生长的刺激。
And then the nutrition or the dietary protein can kind of optimize our results from that stimulus.
然后营养或膳食蛋白质可以优化我们从这种刺激中得到的结果。
And There was once a school of thought that there was this anabolic window, and it was very narrow, and you needed to slam that protein shake the second you left the gym, or why did you even bother lifting that day?
曾经有一个学派认为，有一个合成代谢窗口，而且它非常窄，你需要在离开健身房的那一刻猛烈地喝蛋白质奶昔，或者为什么你那天还要费心举重呢？
It turns out that post-resistance training, that window, that elevated protein synthesis, is long-lasting.
事实证明，抗阻训练后的蛋白质合成增加的窗口期是持久的。
We've measured this and see that it's still elevated even 24 hours after your session.
我们对此进行了测量，发现即使在训练后 24 小时，它仍然升高。
Not that I'm suggesting you wait 24 hours to eat, but this indicates that whether you're eating within 30 minutes or three hours, that's not going to affect the extent to which that dietary protein can support your muscle adaptations.
我并不是建议您等待 24 小时才进食，但这表明无论您是在 30 分钟还是 3 小时内进食，都不会影响膳食蛋白质支持您肌肉适应的程度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I saw a study, I think it was about a year and a half ago, that asserted that post-resistance training, and I forget how long they waited post-resistance training, but some period of time after resistance training that men and women can assimilate up to 100 grams of protein, whereas previously we thought that one could only assimilate 30 grams of protein per feeding.
我看到一项研究，我想是大约一年半前，断言抗阻训练后，我忘了他们抗阻训练后等了多久，但抗阻训练后一段时间，男性和女性最多可以吸收100克蛋白质，而之前我们认为每次喂食只能吸收30克蛋白质。
Whatever became of the 30-gram limit, and how does exercise impact the amount of protein one can and perhaps should ingest?
无论 30 克的限制如何，运动如何影响一个人可以或应该摄入的蛋白质量？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Well, when we think about the protein that we're actually able to absorb and utilize for muscle adaptation, it's a different question of how much can we consume and absorb?
好吧，当我们考虑我们实际上能够吸收和利用肌肉适应的蛋白质时，这是一个不同的问题：我们可以消耗和吸收多少？
Because not all of the protein that we consume is going straight into the muscle.
因为并非我们消耗的所有蛋白质都会直接进入肌肉。
So it's not that we should worry so much about maximizing per-meal protein so much as per day, per week consistent protein intake, and that will, again, support the adaptations from the stimulus that we're getting from our training.
因此，我们不应该太担心每餐蛋白质的最大化，而应该担心每天、每周持续的蛋白质摄入量，这将再次支持我们从训练中获得的刺激的适应。
But the idea that we're somehow gaming the system with timing or dosing, it's really we need to kind of pull back the lens and think more big picture of, okay, if I'm aiming for this overall protein intake, then practically it probably makes sense for me to split that up into a couple of meals, so what does that look like?
但是，我们在某种程度上用时间或剂量来玩弄系统的想法，我们确实需要拉回镜头并思考更宏观的情况，好吧，如果我的目标是总体蛋白质摄入量，那么实际上我将其分成几餐可能是有意义的，那么那是什么样子的呢？
And then can I do that consistently?
然后我可以始终如一地这样做吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Creatine is really big these days.
现在肌酸真的很重要。
Everyone's talking about creatine, it seems.
似乎每个人都在谈论肌酸。
Creatine has been around a long time.
肌酸已经存在很长时间了。
What can it do for muscle and strength?
它对肌肉和力量有什么作用？
What do we know it can do for brain function?
我们知道它对大脑功能有什么作用？
And is there anything different about the creatine women should take or the amount of creatine women should take or when they should take it?
女性应该服用的肌酸或女性应该服用的肌酸的量或何时服用有什么不同吗？
I'm not familiar with this aspect of the creatine literature at all, but I hear about creatine just about every day.
我对肌酸文献的这方面根本不熟悉，但我几乎每天都会听说肌酸。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah, it's having a renaissance, but for women.
是的，它正在复兴，但对于女性来说。
It's still the same, it's just creatine monohydrate, often packaged in gummy form, which you should be careful about because gummy supplements often don't contain the dose that they claim to contain.
它仍然是一样的，它只是一水肌酸，通常以软糖形式包装，您应该小心，因为软糖补充剂通常不含有他们声称含有的剂量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Someone actually analyzed a bunch of creatine gummies, top-selling brands on Amazon, and some of them contained virtually no creatine.
有人实际上分析了一堆亚马逊上最畅销品牌的肌酸软糖，其中一些几乎不含肌酸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really?
真的吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah.
是的。
So be careful-
所以要小心——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow
哇
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
...
...
about the gummies.
关于软糖。
They spray the gummy with a kind of solution on top afterwards, and so it can...
之后他们在软糖顶部喷洒一种溶液，这样它就可以......
Anyway.
无论如何。
I would go with a powder form of creatine monohydrate over a gummy.
我会选择粉末状的一水肌酸和软糖。
It can get you an extra rep or two in the gym or cut a second off your sprint.
它可以让你在健身房里多做一两次，或者缩短你的冲刺时间。
We're talking adaptations of that nature.
我们正在谈论这种性质的适应。
It's very safe.
这是非常安全的。
It's well-studied, and so if you're somebody who is training and you're interested, then I think it's worth taking, and the kind of standard recommendation would be five grams per day.
它经过了充分研究，因此，如果您正在接受培训并且您对此感兴趣，那么我认为它值得服用，并且标准建议是每天五克。
And if you're not exercising, I really wouldn't bother taking creatine.
如果你不锻炼，我真的不会费心服用肌酸。
It's not going to just increase muscle mass when you don't have the stimulus for muscle growth.
当你没有肌肉生长的刺激时，它不会仅仅增加肌肉质量。
So this is an appropriate supplement for people who are exercising.
因此，对于正在锻炼的人来说，这是一个合适的补充品。
And the claims about brain health, I think, are premature because the data that we have to date are people in some kind of a deficit.
我认为，关于大脑健康的说法还为时过早，因为我们迄今为止掌握的数据都是存在某种缺陷的人。
So they were Alzheimer's patients.
所以他们是阿尔茨海默氏症患者。
They were clinically depressed and also taking SSRIs.
他们患有临床抑郁症，并且还服用 SSRIs。
They were undergoing extreme sleep deprivation.
他们正经历着极度的睡眠不足。
They had a traumatic brain injury.
他们患有脑外伤。
This is really interesting literature, but I think it's been repackaged to tell people that you're getting some sort of cognitive boost with creatine, and that's not the same as, "Oh, this could be helpful for these clinical populations with some sort of potential brain creatine deficit."
这是非常有趣的文献，但我认为它被重新包装是为了告诉人们肌酸可以增强你的认知能力，这与“哦，这可能对这些患有某种潜在脑肌酸缺陷的临床人群有帮助”不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It will increase creatinine levels on a blood chart.
它会增加血液图表上的肌酐水平。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Often it will, yes.
通常会的，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because that will spike into the, quote-unquote, "red zone." It'll spike high.
因为这将进入“红色区域”。会飙升得很高。
My understanding is there's no reason to be concerned about that if that spike of the creatinine levels are because of taking creatine.
我的理解是，如果肌酐水平升高是因为服用肌酸，则没有理由担心。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
That's right, and you just need to tell your physician that you're taking it because otherwise they likely would be concerned.
是的，你只需要告诉你的医生你正在服用它，否则他们可能会担心。
But it's normal.
但这是正常的。
That's just breaking down creatine.
这只是分解肌酸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And is it still true that the long-term data show no danger of taking creatine on the order of five grams per day for years?
长期数据表明多年来每天服用 5 克肌酸不会有任何危险，这仍然是真的吗？
Is that still true?
这仍然是真的吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
That's still true.
这仍然是事实。
It's one of the most studied supplements out there.
它是研究最多的补充剂之一。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's your take on the various forms of creatine?
您对各种形式的肌酸有何看法？
Monohydrate is the most typical form, but I see a lot of different versions.
一水合物是最典型的形式，但我看到了很多不同的版本。
I won't name brands, not because I'm trying to hide them, because I can't remember.
我不会说出品牌的名字，不是因为我想隐藏它们，而是因为我不记得了。
But some people want more water drawn to the muscle and less subcutaneous water.
但有些人希望更多的水被吸入肌肉，而更少的皮下水。
Is there any evidence that it can be directed that way by way of the form of creatine?
是否有任何证据表明可以通过肌酸的形式来实现这一目标？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
No. Creatine monohydrate is definitely the most studied form, and so people are trying to introduce these with the kind of claim that somehow it would be better or that you won't bloat as much.
不。一水肌酸绝对是研究最多的形式，因此人们试图在引入这些形式时声称它会更好或者你不会那么膨胀。
I've seen that particularly marketed to women.
我看到它特别针对女性。
But it doesn't really end up working that way, because just because it's breaking down more in your liquid, it doesn't mean that it's absorbed differently when you actually consume it.
但它最终并不会真正以这种方式起作用，因为仅仅因为它在你的液体中分解得更多，并不意味着当你实际食用它时它的吸收会有所不同。
So even if you were to just dry scoop creatine and just chase it with water, the results are the same as if you blend it up until there's literally no bits left in the glass.
因此，即使您只是干舀肌酸并用水冲走，结果与将其混合直到玻璃杯中几乎没有任何残留物一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For two scientists to have an, "I have a friend who told me" kind of conversation is a little bit non-scientific.
对于两位科学家来说，“我有一个朋友告诉我”这样的对话有点不科学。
But I have a friend, she's a woman, she started taking creatine, she started resistance training, not in that order, and she's getting great results and loves it, and she's totally into the fact that now she can do three full range pull-ups, and it's just awesome to see her progression and hear her excitement around it.
但我有一个朋友，她是个女人，她开始服用肌酸，她开始阻力训练，但不是按这个顺序，她取得了很好的成绩并且很喜欢它，她完全喜欢这样的事实，现在她可以做三个全方位引体向上，看到她的进步并听到她对此的兴奋真是太棒了。
She was fit before, and now she's just really charged up about this.
她以前身体很好，现在她对此感到非常兴奋。
And she said she was reporting her experience.
她说她正在报告她的经历。
She said, "When I take five grams of creatine, I feel like it kind of makes me blurry, like there's a lot of subcutaneous water I hold."
她说：“当我服用五克肌酸时，我觉得它让我变得模糊，就像我的皮下储存了很多水一样。”
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"Then when I take three, that doesn't happen." This is a more general question that I have about how to deal with people's individual experience.
“然后当我拿三个时，这种情况就不会发生。”这是我关于如何处理人们的个人经历的一个更普遍的问题。
You never want to argue with somebody's individual experience.
你永远不想与某人的个人经历争论。
I believe her.
我相信她。
She knows her better than anyone, and yet my understanding is that there's no data to support that.
她比任何人都了解她，但我的理解是没有数据支持这一点。
So I'm asking you about creatine, but thematically, I'm asking you as a scientist who's online dealing with questions all the time, who has her own individual experience, how do you want people to think about a situation like that?
所以我问你关于肌酸的问题，但从主题上来说，我问你作为一个一直在网上处理问题的科学家，有自己的个人经历，你希望人们如何思考这样的情况？
For creatine, but for anything.
对于肌酸，但对于任何东西。
Some people say, "Hey, I take creatine and I lose hair." And you're like, "Well, there's no evidence of that." But then they go, "No, I think my hair falls out." What do you do?
有些人说，“嘿，我服用肌酸，然后我就掉头发了。”你会说，“好吧，没有证据表明这一点。”但他们接着说：“不，我想我的头发掉了。”你做什么？
How do you specifically deal with that?
你具体是如何处理的？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Well, I think some people are online for others to validate their own personal experiences, and in that situation, you say, "I respect your experience," and you walk away.
嗯，我认为有些人上网是为了让其他人验证自己的个人经历，在这种情况下，你说：“我尊重你的经历”，然后你就走开。
There are other people who are online with genuine questions, sometimes because they've heard that this was their friend's experience, or they've seen another post about it, and they're actually open to the information.
还有其他人在网上提出了真正的问题，有时是因为他们听说这是他们朋友的经历，或者他们看到了另一篇关于此事的帖子，并且他们实际上对这些信息持开放态度。
And those are the people that are worth the time investment to connect with because they're genuinely interested in the science and interested in learning, and it's not about proving them wrong, because that's a losing battle.
这些人值得花时间去联系，因为他们真正对科学感兴趣，对学习感兴趣，而不是证明他们错了，因为这是一场失败的战斗。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There is another phenomenon, not just online, where there's a lot of distrust in formal academic science nowadays.
还有另一种现象，不仅仅是在网上，现在人们对正式的学术科学存在很多不信任。
There are a lot of reasons for this, social media being one of them, but this was building up for a long period of time.
造成这种情况的原因有很多，社交媒体就是其中之一，但这种情况已经积累了很长一段时间。
And I think as a woman in this area of research and public education, I think it's tricky when we look back 25 years and we were told, "Oh, yeah.
我认为，作为一名从事这一研究和公共教育领域的女性，当我们回顾 25 年前并被告知“哦，是的”时，我认为这很棘手。
If you work out with weights, put on muscle, but then it all turns to fat if you stop." It's like, "If you take creatine, it's going to destroy your kidneys.
如果你进行举重锻炼，会增加肌肉，但如果你停止的话，它就会变成脂肪。”这就像，“如果你服用肌酸，它会破坏你的肾脏。
It's going to mess up your hormone cycles, especially if you're a woman, then it's going to mess with pregnant..." Are there any things that you hear circulating now that you would like to see explored in a formal, rigorous way because you think they could really help clarify and help people?
它会扰乱你的荷尔蒙周期，特别是如果你是一名女性，那么它会扰乱你的怀孕……”你现在听到的有哪些事情你希望看到以正式、严格的方式进行探讨，因为你认为它们真的可以帮助澄清和帮助人们？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I think we don't understand a lot about these body composition changes that some women experience and others don't through the menopause transition.
我认为我们不太了解一些女性在更年期过渡期间经历的身体成分变化，而另一些女性却没有。
And one of the big complaints that a lot of women have is this kind of redistribution of body fat or preferential growth of body fat in the midsection.
许多女性最大的抱怨之一就是这种身体脂肪的重新分配或身体脂肪优先生长在腹部。
And you could speculate that it's estrogen receptor-related perhaps, but we don't have human data to support that.
你可以推测它可能与雌激素受体有关，但我们没有人类数据来支持这一点。
And whenever you make a claim about estrogen specifically or loss of estrogen, then you have to think, well, if it's only that, then it should be everybody who experiences it, because post-menopause, you're on the same boat, right?
每当你专门提出有关雌激素或雌激素丧失的说法时，你必须想，好吧，如果只是这样，那么每个人都应该经历过这种情况，因为绝经后，你在同一条船上，对吗？
And so it has to be more complicated than that.
所以事情一定比这更复杂。
And most things, as you know, physiologically, it's rarely just one thing-
正如你所知，大多数事情，从生理角度来说，很少只是一件事——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
...
...
and that one thing can explain.
有一件事可以解释。
So I think that deserves more exploration.
所以我认为这值得更多的探索。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
And I think we need to do a better job with science communication because unfortunately, the internet is sort of taking it by storm, and on one hand, I'm thinking it's cool that there's this interest in science, that people want that PubMed ID, and people are asking for data.
我认为我们需要在科学传播方面做得更好，因为不幸的是，互联网正在掀起一场风暴，一方面，我认为人们对科学感兴趣，人们想要 PubMed ID，人们索要数据，这很酷。
But the flip side of it is that not everybody has the tool or the skill set to interpret the full paper.
但另一方面是，并不是每个人都拥有解读全文的工具或技能。
And so then people are using science as a way to cherry-pick or to Promote a message that isn't really reflective of the literature as a whole.
因此，人们利用科学作为一种方式来挑选或推广一种并不能真正反映整个文献的信息。
And that's really challenging for the confused woman on social media, for the fitness coach or personal trainer who is trying to help that woman out, and for the scientist who looks around and says, "Hey, this is sort of a weaponization of science because you're not being true to the literature." That said, an individual study is not designed to tell any one person exactly how to eat or how to train or how many steps to take or what supplements to take.
对于社交媒体上困惑的女性、试图帮助该女性摆脱困境的健身教练或私人教练，以及环顾四周并说“嘿，这有点像科学武器化，因为你不忠实于文献”的科学家来说，这确实是一个挑战。也就是说，一项单独的研究并不是为了告诉任何人到底如何饮食、如何训练、需要采取多少步骤或需要服用什么补充剂。
So yes, we need to be evidence-based.
所以是的，我们需要以证据为基础。
Yes, we need to be honest about what the science says, what we do and do not know, but of course, there's going to be a component of individualization when you actually make decisions about what behaviors to engage in.
是的，我们需要诚实地对待科学所说的、我们所做的和不知道的事情，但是，当然，当你真正决定要采取哪些行为时，就会有个性化的一个组成部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Spectacular answer.
精彩的答案。
I would love to see the study that you described done.
我很乐意看到你所描述的研究完成。
Is it possible to look at receptor distributions in adult humans using some imaging technique, or do you have to biopsy fat and muscle from the midsection to get a sense of estrogen receptor density and saturation?
是否可以使用某种成像技术来观察成年人的受体分布，或者是否必须对腹部的脂肪和肌肉进行活检才能了解雌激素受体的密度和饱和度？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
The biopsy would be the way to go.
活检是可行的方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Unfortunately.
不幸的是。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
And a fat biopsy is even more uncomfortable than a muscle biopsy.
脂肪活检甚至比肌肉活检更不舒服。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Ouch.
哎呀。
Yeah.
是的。
Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were imaging techniques that would allow people to go into a scanner and you'd get distribution of estrogen receptors, distribution of testosterone receptors, and saturation, how many bound?
如果有成像技术可以让人们进入扫描仪并获得雌激素受体的分布、睾酮受体的分布以及饱和度（有多少结合），那不是很棒吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That'd be wonderful.
那太好了。
Medical imaging can get us there, I think.
我认为医学成像可以帮助我们实现这一目标。
Hopefully.
希望如此。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah, it would be really powerful because even when we think about any biopsy study, we're taking 50 to 100 milligrams of tissue out of a single muscle or site, and then making a lot of extrapolations based on this tiny amount of tissue.
是的，这将非常强大，因为即使我们考虑任何活检研究，我们也会从单个肌肉或部位中取出 50 到 100 毫克的组织，然后根据这一微小的组织进行大量的推断。
We're saying, "Is this representative of the whole muscle?
我们说，“这是整块肌肉的代表吗？
Is this representative of other muscles in the body?" And if we're doing a kind of pre-post design, then when you go back in, is it possible that the adaptations along that same muscle could vary slightly?
这是身体其他肌肉的代表吗？”如果我们正在进行某种前后设计，那么当您返回时，同一块肌肉的适应是否可能会略有不同？
So there's a lot of limitations to what is a very cool, very valuable technique.
因此，这项非常酷、非常有价值的技术存在很多限制。
But I think when we talk about a biopsy and what we're getting from that, we do need to acknowledge that we're making a lot of assumptions based on that tiny amount of tissue.
但我认为，当我们谈论活检以及从中得到什么时，我们确实需要承认，我们是根据那少量的组织做出了很多假设。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Earlier, you said that where people store fat has a genetic component.
早些时候，您说过人们储存脂肪的地方有遗传成分。
So as uncomfortable as the experiment might seem to people, is it fair to say if you want to know where you have a propensity to store fat, look at your parents?
因此，尽管这个实验可能会让人们感到不舒服，但如果你想知道自己在哪里储存脂肪的倾向，可以公平地说，看看你的父母吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Maybe.
也许吧。
But there are lifestyle considerations certainly that go along with that.
但随之而来的当然还有生活方式方面的考虑。
So I think genetics is our starting point, but it doesn't dictate our endpoint.
所以我认为遗传学是我们的起点，但它并不决定我们的终点。
And so if you have parents who have never really paid attention to their diet, have never really engaged in sport or structured exercise or resistance training, then how they fare through the aging process does not have to be the same experience for you.
因此，如果你的父母从未真正关注过自己的饮食，从未真正参与过运动或结构化锻炼或阻力训练，那么他们在衰老过程中的经历对你来说不一定是一样的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm just trying to think of how the site of fat storage would be encoded genetically.
我只是想思考脂肪储存部位是如何通过基因编码的。
I'm guessing more adipocytes at certain locations.
我猜某些位置有更多的脂肪细胞。
Of course, there's a male-female difference.
当然，男女之间也有差异。
There tends to be a male-female difference that presumably depends on androgen and estrogen receptors, but I'm not an expert in that issue specifically.
男性和女性之间往往存在差异，这可能取决于雄激素和雌激素受体，但我并不是这个问题的专家。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Some would hypothesize that though there's a kind of reproductive advantage to having more fat around the hips, and so then across the menopause transition, when you no longer have that reproductive function, then that explains the reason why you would start to gain more fat around the midsection and lose fat around the hips.
有些人会假设，虽然臀部周围有更多的脂肪有一种生殖优势，所以在更年期过渡期间，当你不再有这种生殖功能时，这就解释了为什么你会开始在腹部周围增加更多的脂肪，而在臀部周围减少脂肪。
Do we have the data to support that?
我们有数据支持吗？
Not really.
并不真地。
This is more kind of looking back at evolutionary biology and kind of trying to piece things together as to why it might be the case.
这更像是对进化生物学的回顾，并试图将事情拼凑起来，解释为什么会出现这种情况。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
That said, not all men have what we would say male pattern fat distribution, and not all women have what we would say-
也就是说，并不是所有男性都有我们所说的男性脂肪分布模式，也不是所有女性都有我们所说的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
...
...
is female pattern fat distribution.
是女性模式脂肪分布。
So yes, you're right that there's a tendency to have one or the other, but it's not necessarily a one size fits all.
所以，是的，你是对的，倾向于选择其中之一，但不一定是放之四海而皆准的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Speaking of hormones, let's talk about the most barbed wire hormone of them all, which is cortisol.
说到荷尔蒙，我们来谈谈所有荷尔蒙中最铁丝网的荷尔蒙，那就是皮质醇。
I won't belabor this conversation with this because I've said it many times before, but you want high cortisol in the morning.
我不会用这个来详细说明这次谈话，因为我之前已经说过很多次了，但你早上想要高皮质醇。
It's why you wake up in the morning.
这就是你早上醒来的原因。
You want your cortisol low at night before you go to sleep, in the last hours before sleep.
你希望你的皮质醇在晚上睡觉前、睡觉前的最后几个小时处于低水平。
That sets you up for a lot of great things, and that's true for men and women.
这会让你为很多伟大的事情做好准备，对于男人和女人来说都是如此。
But cortisol and women and women's fitness has become a real hotbed of misinformation.
但皮质醇和女性以及女性健身已经成为错误信息的真正温床。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's the first time I've ever used that word on this podcast.
这是我第一次在这个播客上使用这个词。
Misinformation.
误传。
It's such a loaded word, but I think it's appropriate here because you hear all the time, if you stress, your cortisol goes up.
这是一个很沉重的词，但我认为用在这里很合适，因为你经常听到，如果你有压力，你的皮质醇就会上升。
People will say if you cold plunge, your cortisol goes up, and if your cortisol goes up, you're going to get moon face, and you're going to store body fat around your midsection.
人们会说，如果你冷跳，你的皮质醇就会上升，如果你的皮质醇上升，你就会变成圆脸，你的身体就会在腹部周围储存脂肪。
Which is true if somebody has Cushing's syndrome, which is pathologically high levels of cortisol.
如果某人患有库欣综合症，即病理性皮质醇水平过高，情况就是如此。
But Please clarify, educate.
但请澄清，教育。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And you hear, "Oh, never do zone two training because of cortisol.
你会听到，“哦，因为皮质醇，永远不要进行第二区训练。
Don't do high-intensity training because of cortisol." And so then you're stuck with these women who are thinking that any intensity is bad because of cortisol.
不要因为皮质醇而进行高强度训练。”那么你就陷入了这些女性的困境，她们认为任何强度的运动都是有害的，因为皮质醇。
As you said, this is real manifestations of Cushing syndrome that are being kind of twisted to say, "Hey, are you a little stressed?
正如你所说，这是库欣综合症的真实表现，有点扭曲地说，“嘿，你有一点压力吗？
Have you gained some fat around your midsection?
你的腹部周围有脂肪增加吗？
It must be cortisol." So it's a really compelling pitch to people, usually to sell them some ineffective cortisol-reducing supplement, which we don't need, and they don't work.
一定是皮质醇。”因此，这对人们来说是一个非常有吸引力的推销，通常是向他们出售一些无效的降低皮质醇的补充剂，我们不需要这些补充剂，而且它们也不起作用。
If you actually have chronically elevated cortisol, then you need to be treated with medication, not some natural supplement.
如果您的皮质醇确实长期升高，那么您需要接受药物治疗，而不是某些天然补充剂。
So, I think the important point here is that those cortisol increases are normal and necessary.
所以，我认为这里重要的一点是皮质醇的增加是正常且必要的。
It's also necessary for blood pressure regulation, blood glucose regulation.
它对于血压调节、血糖调节也是必要的。
That's important for exercise.
这对锻炼很重要。
And those acute fluctuations are not contributing to fat storage or inability to lose fat.
这些剧烈的波动不会导致脂肪储存或无法减掉脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Presumably, in the population of people who try and self-soothe with eating excess calories when they're stressed, that the correlation just becomes, to them, obvious, but it's like cryptic correlation, as we call it, right?
据推测，对于那些在压力下尝试通过摄入过量卡路里来自我安慰的人来说，这种相关性对他们来说变得显而易见，但这就像我们所说的神秘相关性，对吗？
Because two things are happening.
因为有两件事正在发生。
They're stressed, and they're eating more.
他们压力很大，吃得更多。
And yes, their cortisol is probably elevated.
是的，他们的皮质醇可能会升高。
So it all hangs together rationally, but the food part is never really discussed.
所以这一切都是理性地结合在一起的，但食物部分从未真正被讨论过。
How being stressed causes some people to eat far less, and how being stressed causes some people to eat far more, in particular, unhealthy foods.
压力如何导致一些人吃得更少，而压力如何导致一些人吃得更多，特别是不健康的食物。
So I feel like the real-world puzzle pieces kind of fit together at the level of kind of perfect storm of people thinking that cortisol is the culprit, forgetting what cortisol does to eating when food is most likely the...
所以我觉得现实世界的拼图碎片在人们认为皮质醇是罪魁祸首的完美风暴的水平上组合在一起，忘记了皮质醇对饮食的影响，而食物很可能是......
I don't like to call food a culprit, but in this instance, I think it's appropriate.
我不喜欢称食物为罪魁祸首，但在这种情况下，我认为这是合适的。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Well, I think that is not an exciting message that makes you feel like-
好吧，我认为这并不是一个令人兴奋的消息，不会让你感觉——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really?
真的吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So if you say, "Oh, what's your diet look like?" As humans, we want a different answer.
所以如果你说，“哦，你的饮食是什么样的？”作为人类，我们想要一个不同的答案。
We want to look for something else to blame.
我们想寻找其他的罪魁祸首。
And so the flavor of this year, or maybe the last couple of years, has definitely been cortisol.
因此，今年或过去几年的风味肯定是皮质醇。
Maybe we'll move on to blame a different hormone in-
也许我们会继续指责另一种激素——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
...
...
in 2026.
2026年。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just as supplements go through broad trends, hormones go through broad trends, neurotransmitters.
正如补充剂经历了广泛的趋势一样，激素和神经递质也经历了广泛的趋势。
Like a few years back, it was all oxytocin.
就像几年前一样，一切都是催产素。
Everything was oxytocin.
一切都是催产素。
Then it was serotonin.
然后是血清素。
Dopamine had its big moments, and then now it really does seem to be like cortisol is the thing.
多巴胺有过它的重要时刻，现在看来皮质醇确实是关键。
And I'm only being half facetious.
我只是半开玩笑。
I love that people are interested in this stuff, and they want to learn.
我喜欢人们对这些东西感兴趣，并且他们想学习。
I think you can't give them so much detail that they dissolve into a puddle of their own confusion, and yet the oversimplification can be tough.
我认为你不能给他们太多细节，以免他们陷入自己的混乱之中，但过于简单化可能会很困难。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
And Cushing syndrome is not very common.
而且库欣综合症并不常见。
It's typically a manifestation of somebody who's taking a lot of steroids, and then you're ending up with this chronically elevated cortisol as a side effect.
这通常是服用大量类固醇的人的表现，然后你最终会得到皮质醇长期升高的副作用。
And so it's not the case that everybody on the internet actually has Cushing syndrome and should be concerned and needs to go see an endocrinologist.
因此，并不是互联网上的每个人实际上都患有库欣综合征，并且应该担心并需要去看内分泌科医生。
It's more the case that people are, again, borrowing from some of the side effects of Cushing syndrome and then kind of tugging at people's vulnerabilities and desires to change their body composition and saying, "It's not your behaviors.
更常见的情况是，人们再次借鉴库欣综合症的一些副作用，然后利用人们的脆弱性和改变身体成分的愿望，并说：“这不是你的行为。
It's not your lifestyle.
这不是你的生活方式。
It's your cortisol."
这是你的皮质醇。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
As you and I both know, a good, solid resistance training session of about 30 minutes to an hour will triple or quadruple circulating cortisol levels.
正如你我都知道的那样，一次大约 30 分钟到一小时的良好、扎实的阻力训练将使循环皮质醇水平提高三倍或四倍。
I think if people understood that, they might look at cortisol a little bit differently.
我认为如果人们理解这一点，他们对皮质醇的看法可能会有所不同。
How do you think people should feel when they finish a workout?
您认为人们完成锻炼后应该有什么感觉？
I know that might seem very subjective, but it's something that we can all get in touch with because I know that if I train for an hour or 75 minutes, I feel great.
我知道这可能看起来非常主观，但这是我们都可以接触到的，因为我知道如果我训练一个小时或 75 分钟，我感觉很棒。
If I push hard past 90 minutes in the gym, I'm pretty depleted for a while, and oftentimes that leads to less progress and minor, I think, more susceptibility to infection and things like that.
如果我在健身房里坚持超过 90 分钟，我会在一段时间内感到非常疲惫，而且我认为这通常会导致进展缓慢，甚至更容易受到感染之类的事情。
Is it reasonable to assume that cortisol is somehow involved?
假设皮质醇以某种方式参与其中是否合理？
Is over-training at the level of an individual workout a real thing?
个人锻炼水平上的过度训练是真的吗？
Most importantly, how should people walk out of the gym feeling, assuming they're sleeping well and the rest of their life is in order?
最重要的是，假设人们睡得很好并且余生都井然有序，那么他们走出健身房时应该有什么感觉？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I think most people are not at risk of over-training.
我认为大多数人并没有过度训练的风险。
I think especially your average female population.
我认为尤其是你们的平均女性人口。
I think there are issues with female athletes, certainly, but I think there's a lot of concern about needing recovery or inflammation that it's probably overblown because true over-training, we get red flags that would manifest in other ways.
我认为女运动员确实存在问题，但我认为人们对需要恢复或炎症有很多担忧，这可能被夸大了，因为真正的过度训练，我们会收到会以其他方式表现出来的危险信号。
So you would have difficulty sleeping, or you would feel sore for days and really under-recovered or under the weather, and those might be some signs that you're really overdoing it.
因此，您可能会难以入睡，或者会连续几天感到酸痛并且恢复不足或身体不适，而这些可能表明您确实做得太过分了。
So I think it's probably not an issue for most people, but I think some days it depends on when we're training, what time of day we're training, and that might dictate your personal decisions for How hard to push and how long to train.
所以我认为这对大多数人来说可能不是问题，但我认为有时候这取决于我们训练的时间、训练的时间，这可能会决定你的个人决定，比如推的力度和训练的时间。
There are some people if they train in the evening, then that disrupts their sleep.
有些人如果在晚上训练，就会扰乱他们的睡眠。
And there are other people who when they train in the morning and feel like that's a great start to their day, really pushes energy and productivity for the rest of the day.
还有一些人，当他们早上训练时，感觉这是一天的良好开始，确实会在一天中剩下的时间里充满能量和生产力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Are you a morning trainer or an evening trainer?
您是早间教练还是晚间教练？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I prefer mornings.
我更喜欢早晨。
I'll go in the afternoon.
我下午就去
I won't go in the evening.
晚上我不会去。
I don't like it.
我不喜欢它。
What about you?
你呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I used to train in the afternoon, evenings when I was in college, and then over the years I've just shifted to training in the morning.
当我上大学时，我曾经在下午和晚上训练，然后这些年来我只是转向早上训练。
I would like everyone to ask themselves the following question.
我希望每个人都问自己以下问题。
If you train at different times of day, does it impact your energy the rest of the day?
如果您在一天中的不同时间进行训练，是否会影响您当天其余时间的精力？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because what I've found, and this is less about my experience, the reason I like to prompt people's questions about themselves is, if I do resistance training before, say, 10:00 a.m., I have more energy all day long.
因为我发现，这与我的经历无关，我喜欢促使人们对自己提出问题的原因是，如果我在上午 10:00 之前进行阻力训练，我一整天都会有更多的精力。
If I do it somewhere around noon, 2:00 p.m., afterwards I'm just beat.
如果我在中午、下午 2:00 左右做这件事，之后我就会被打败。
And I like to think that I'm, dare I say, riding the morning cortisol wave, and I'm collapsing whatever cortisol I'm getting from my training into that, and I just feel really good.
我喜欢认为，我敢说，我正乘着早晨的皮质醇浪潮，我正在将训练中获得的皮质醇分解成那样，我感觉非常好。
I don't like to train after 2:00 p.m.
我不喜欢下午 2:00 以后训练
because I like to drink a lot of caffeine before I train, and it messes up my sleep.
因为我喜欢在训练前喝很多咖啡因，这会扰乱我的睡眠。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do not like to train uncaffeinated.
我不喜欢在不喝咖啡的情况下训练。
So that's the biggie for me.
这对我来说是最重要的。
But in college when I was more of going to sleep at midnight, 1:00 a.m.
但在大学里，我更喜欢在午夜、凌晨 1:00 睡觉。
and sleeping in till 8:00 or 9:00 because I could afford to do that, I'd go to the gym at night and it's also when it was social and-
睡到 8:00 或 9:00 因为我负担得起，我会在晚上去健身房，而且也是在社交的时候——
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I think some of those factors change over time.
我认为其中一些因素会随着时间而改变。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah, I think one thing to keep in mind for people is if you are used to training at a certain time of day and then you switch it, particularly if you transition from late afternoon or evening training to morning training, you might see a kind of hit in performance initially, but that should resolve in a couple of weeks.
是的，我认为人们要记住的一件事是，如果你习惯了在一天中的某个时间训练，然后你改变它，特别是如果你从下午晚些时候或晚上训练过渡到早上训练，你可能会看到最初的表现有所下降，但这应该会在几周内解决。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Cardio I'll do whenever, because I don't need caffeine to do it.
有氧运动我随时都会做，因为我不需要咖啡因来做它。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Oh.
哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I prefer caffeine to do it.
但我更喜欢咖啡因来做到这一点。
Prefer caffeine for most things.
对于大多数事情来说，更喜欢咖啡因。
What are your thoughts on hormone therapies that are not replacement?
您对非替代性激素疗法有何看法？
And I'm not talking about blasting anabolic steroids.
我不是在谈论爆破合成代谢类固醇。
I'm talking about, because this is happening now en masse with women-
我说的是，因为这种情况现在在女性中大量发生——
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because of the understandable interest in hormone replacement therapy for perimenopause, menopause, estrogen therapy, testosterone therapy.
因为人们对围绝经期、更年期激素替代疗法、雌激素疗法、睾酮疗法的兴趣是可以理解的。
So for a woman who feels like, hey, they're feeling less vigor, their sleep, muscle, et cetera, and it's very easy nowadays to find a doctor to prescribe them estrogen or testosterone cream or a injection, and they're like, "I feel awesome." I talked to someone the other day.
因此，对于一个感觉自己活力、睡眠、肌肉等方面都较差的女性来说，现在很容易找到医生给她们开雌激素或睾酮霜或注射剂，她们会说，“我感觉棒极了。”前几天我和某人交谈过。
"I'm taking this pr-" I think it's progesterone.
“我正在服用这个药物——”我认为它是黄体酮。
And she said, "I feel awesome.
她说：“我感觉棒极了。
The progesterone thing fixed my sleep.
黄体酮的东西改善了我的睡眠。
I have so much energy.
我有这么多的能量。
I'm up in the morning." She's like, "I feel like I did in my 30s." Now we're not talking supplements.
我早上起来了。”她说，“我感觉就像我30多岁的时候一样。”现在我们不是在谈论补充剂。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Talking prescription drugs.
谈论处方药。
But none of them had a measurable deficiency.
但他们都没有明显的缺陷。
They're just giving some, what I call, hormone augmentation.
他们只是给予一些我所说的激素增强剂。
And the language gets tricky here.
这里的语言变得很棘手。
They're just augmenting their hormone levels, so they're going from whatever they were to higher.
他们只是增加了荷尔蒙水平，所以他们的水平会从原来的水平变得更高。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they are thrilled about it.
他们对此感到兴奋。
I don't know that they're not creating other issues, but I think we're going to see tons of this in the years to come.
我不知道他们是否会造成其他问题，但我认为在未来几年我们会看到大量这样的问题。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Menopause hormone therapy, as you said, is not intended to replace, because you're not supposed to have the same hormone levels after menopause as you did pre-menopause.
正如您所说，更年期激素疗法并不是为了替代，因为绝经后您的激素水平不应该与绝经前相同。
So the goal there with these estrogen-based therapies is really to target symptoms, not to treat to a hormone level.
因此，这些基于雌激素的疗法的目标实际上是针对症状，而不是治疗到激素水平。
And there's a wealth of data that this can be really effective for symptom management, which has a ton of downstream effects.
有大量数据表明，这对于症状管理确实有效，并且会产生大量下游影响。
So we don't have good data to suggest that it is going to attenuate the loss of muscle mass or increase muscle mass.
因此，我们没有足够的数据表明它会减少肌肉质量的损失或增加肌肉质量。
But if you're somebody who is suffering with hot flashes and poor sleep and night sweats, and then you can get some relief from that, then certainly you're more likely to be adherent to your diet or going to the gym with greater frequency and feeling better.
但如果你患有潮热、睡眠质量差和盗汗等症状，然后你可以从中得到一些缓解，那么你当然更有可能坚持你的饮食或更频繁地去健身房，并且感觉更好。
And so we can't discount the ability to lean on some of these to improve the way that you feel.
因此，我们不能低估依靠其中一些方法来改善您的感受的能力。
The testosterone conversation gets a little bit trickier because right now it's really only kind of proven to be effective for low sexual desire, low libido in women.
关于睾酮的讨论变得有点棘手，因为目前它确实只是被证明对女性性欲低下、性欲低下有效。
And so there are a lot of people who are experimenting with it for other reasons, but we need to remember that the testosterone levels that people are using or should be using for this kind of supplement are fairly low because you're trying to treat to low normal.
因此，有很多人出于其他原因正在尝试使用它，但我们需要记住，人们正在使用或应该使用这种补充剂的睾酮水平相当低，因为你试图将其治疗到较低的正常水平。
And then if you start to go beyond that low normal, then we can get a lot of those unwanted side effects that we would get if we were taking testosterone for the bodybuilding purpose.
然后，如果你开始超出正常水平，那么我们可能会出现很多不必要的副作用，如果我们为了健美目的而服用睾酮，就会出现这些副作用。
And so you might see voice deepening or unwanted hair growth.
因此，您可能会看到声音变低或毛发生长。
So that's typically why, if you're a woman, you'd only want to use this in really low doses.
因此，这通常就是为什么，如果您是女性，您只想以非常低的剂量使用它。
And we don't have the evidence to say that that low dose is going to do anything for muscle.
我们没有证据表明低剂量对肌肉有任何作用。
And it's probably not worth the risk to take the high dose when you could just lift weights.
当你只能举重时，可能不值得冒险服用高剂量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When you could just lift weights.
当你可以举重的时候。
Thank you for entertaining that somewhat tricky question, because I think we're in a whole new self-directed medical care landscape, meaning even if people are working with doctors, they can generally find a doctor to make them feel better, even if it's not dealing with the specific issue?
感谢您提出这个有点棘手的问题，因为我认为我们正处于一个全新的自我导向的医疗保健环境中，这意味着即使人们与医生合作，他们通常也可以找到一位医生让他们感觉更好，即使它不处理具体问题？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
We need to be careful with the hormone therapy conversation, though, because the data to date doesn't support the use of it for preventing cognitive decline or preventing cardiovascular disease.
不过，我们需要谨慎对待激素疗法的讨论，因为迄今为止的数据并不支持使用激素疗法来预防认知能力下降或预防心血管疾病。
And there's a lot of messaging out there that is sort of telling women, "If you don't take hormone therapy, you're doomed." And that's not accurate.
有很多信息在告诉女性，“如果你不接受激素治疗，你就注定失败。”这并不准确。
And some women can't take hormone therapy.
有些女性不能接受激素治疗。
So we need to kind of hold two truths, where this is really powerful and can be really effective for symptoms.
因此，我们需要把握两个事实，即这确实非常强大，并且对症状确实有效。
Perhaps down the road, we'll learn that it has these other benefits, or it could go the other direction.
也许在未来，我们会了解到它还有这些其他好处，或者它可能会走向另一个方向。
We don't know.
我们不知道。
But prematurely making claims about all of these benefits, that it's going to improve your lifespan, increase longevity, prevent disease, that's not accurate.
但过早地宣称所有这些好处，即它会延长你的寿命、延长寿命、预防疾病，这是不准确的。
And women need to understand that something can be really valuable, but not a panacea.
女性需要明白，有些东西可能确实有价值，但不是万能药。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or do you feel isolated because you won't join this, "Hey, things are different for women" message?
或者您是否因为不加入“嘿，女性的情况有所不同”这一信息而感到孤立？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Well, if it were true, I would say it.
好吧，如果这是真的，我会这么说。
When I got into this field, of course, that was a question.
当然，当我进入这个领域时，这是一个问题。
That was one of the major questions that I had.
这是我的主要问题之一。
And at the time, there were reasonable hypotheses to explore.
当时，有合理的假设可供探索。
And as scientists, we test those, and then we look at the data, and we form our opinions based on the data.
作为科学家，我们测试这些，然后查看数据，并根据数据形成我们的意见。
As a woman, if I honestly thought there were things we should do differently to optimize our results, of course, I would be doing them myself and telling other women to do them, too.
作为一名女性，如果我真的认为我们应该做一些不同的事情来优化我们的结果，当然，我会自己做这些事情，并告诉其他女性也这样做。
But the narrative that women need a sex-specific program or nutrient timing guidance or a particular intensity of exercise or rep range or all of it, it makes women feel like they're being spoken to and being considered, and they're in they're part of this community instead of, "Oh, just do what your boyfriend does or what your husband does." So the narrative is very much, we know this works for men, but women are not men, and so obviously women need something different.
但是，女性需要针对特定性别的计划或营养时间指导或特定强度的运动或重复范围或所有这些的叙述，这让女性感觉自己正在与自己交谈并被考虑，并且她们是这个社区的一部分，而不是“哦，只要做你男朋友或你丈夫所做的事情即可。”所以叙述非常多，我们知道这对男性有效，但女性不是男性，所以显然女性需要不同的东西。
The data says men and women respond to exercise very similarly.
数据显示，男性和女性对运动的反应非常相似。
I think the fitness space is so saturated that a lot of people think they need to kind of reinvent the wheel or that message that you and I have discussed, which is consistent, effective, progressive training.
我认为健身空间已经如此饱和，以至于很多人认为他们需要重新发明轮子，或者你和我讨论过的信息，即一致、有效、渐进的训练。
It's not exciting enough.
还不够刺激。
That doesn't give you the edge, and so you need something else, and that something else is often misinformation or something that just overcomplicates everything and makes...
这不会给你带来优势，所以你需要其他东西，而其他东西通常是错误信息，或者只是使一切变得过于复杂并使得......
But when it's more complicated, people are convinced that you know something they don't.
但当事情变得更加复杂时，人们就会相信你知道一些他们不知道的事情。
That's why misinformation spreads.
这就是错误信息传播的原因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't think it could be made any clearer, and I appreciate your directness about it.
我认为这已经不能说得更清楚了，我很欣赏你对此的直接态度。
The scientist in you, the person who looks at data, comes absolutely clear in that statement.
你身上的科学家、观察数据的人，在这句话中表现得非常清楚。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
And I'll say this.
我会这么说。
When I explored menstrual cycle phases, yes, I was interested in would there be differences in these different hormone profiles?
当我探索月经周期阶段时，是的，我感兴趣的是这些不同的激素分布是否存在差异？
But the other reason, the more exciting take-home from the fact that there was no difference, is one of the biggest reasons why we don't have as much data in female participants is because of the challenge associated with standardizing the testing and the training and the recruitment for people with equal length phases and standardizing ovulation timing and excluding people who are on contraceptives.
但另一个原因，更令人兴奋的事实是，没有差异，这是我们没有那么多女性参与者数据的最大原因之一，因为标准化测试、培训和招募具有相同长度阶段的人、标准化排卵时间和排除服用避孕药的人等方面存在挑战。
It adds in a whole study on top of a study.
它在一项研究之上添加了一项完整的研究。
And so if we don't have to do that anymore, think about all the research we can do in women or in mixed sex samples or in combined people on and off contraceptives, especially for sports science labs with fewer resources.
因此，如果我们不再需要这样做，请考虑我们可以在女性或混合性别样本或服用和未服用避孕药的人群中进行的所有研究，特别是对于资源较少的运动科学实验室。
They can be part of that mission to do more research in women if we don't have to worry about what was a huge barrier historically.
如果我们不必担心历史上的巨大障碍，他们可以成为对女性进行更多研究的使命的一部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are more funds now being directed towards studies that include women or are solely directed at women's health and fitness.
现在有更多的资金用于包括女性在内的研究或专门针对女性健康和健身的研究。
Having not come through science through that portal, I'm curious about how experiments are done in terms of resistance training and muscle growth and strength increases.
由于没有通过该门户网站进行科学学习，我很好奇如何在阻力训练、肌肉生长和力量增加方面进行实验。
I'm familiar with some of Brad's work and your work.
我熟悉布拉德和你的一些工作。
Do you think it replicates the gym well enough?
你认为它足够好地复制健身房吗？
I'm not being critical.
我并不是在批评。
I've seen studies where it's like, "Oh, leg extension" and then you're looking at one-rep max on the curl or...
我看过一些研究，就像“哦，腿部伸展”，然后你会看到弯举最多重复一次，或者……
I'm not saying you guys did those studies, but a lot of times I think untrained subjects who then train for eight weeks doing something, and it's hard for me to know if it really carries over.
我并不是说你们做了这些研究，但很多时候我认为未经训练的受试者然后训练八周做某事，我很难知道它是否真的会延续下去。
It could.
可以的。
I ran a lab where we used VR to study stress.
我经营了一个实验室，我们使用虚拟现实来研究压力。
You'd say, "Well, is that real?" It's better than just showing people pictures on a screen But it's not like real-life stress.
你会说：“嗯，这是真的吗？”这比仅仅在屏幕上向人们展示图片要好，但这与现实生活中的压力不同。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We had a falling thing and, yeah, people think they're falling.
我们有一个坠落的东西，是的，人们认为他们正在坠落。
We actually had people fall physically in the lab, because the visual world's going up in VR, but it's not like falling off a building.
事实上，我们让人们在实验室里摔倒，因为视觉世界在 VR 中不断提升，但这并不像从建筑物上摔下来。
So are the studies of resistance training that one can do in a gym/lab, do you like them?
那么，阻力训练的研究可以在健身房/实验室进行，你喜欢吗？
Are you satisfied with what's there in a lot of cases?
您对很多情况下的情况感到满意吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Well, I've been involved in those more real-world gym-like program studies, and with that increase in ecological validity, you sacrifice some of the measurements that you can do.
嗯，我参与了那些更真实的类似健身房的项目研究，随着生态有效性的增加，你牺牲了一些你可以做的测量。
You take away some of that really tight control, or within subject designs where you're having one leg perform one protocol and another leg perform another.
您取消了一些真正严格的控制，或者在主题设计中，您让一条腿执行一项协议，另一条腿执行另一项协议。
So I think there's a time and a place for both, but if we want to look at molecular signaling, if we want to do these tighter controls where we just want to know that there was a sufficient exercise stimulus, and it's not necessarily about the fact that it was a leg extension versus a real-world leg training program-
所以我认为两者都有时间和地点，但如果我们想研究分子信号传导，如果我们想做这些更严格的控制，我们只想知道是否有足够的运动刺激，而这不一定是腿部伸展与现实世界的腿部训练计划的事实 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
...
...
then those are better.
那么那些就更好了。
Because that kind of a study is not designed to say, "And therefore, everyone should do unilateral leg extensions." It's designed to say, "Under these conditions, with this hormone profile or with this infusion of nutrition, then what happens to protein synthesis?" And that can be powerful and controlled in a way that a lot of the more translational exercise science studies are not.
因为这类研究的目的并不是说“因此，每个人都应该做单侧腿部伸展运动”。它的目的是说，“在这些条件下，在这种激素分布或这种营养输入下，蛋白质合成会发生什么？”而且它的威力和控制方式是许多转化性运动科学研究所不具备的。
So I think both are important, but it really depends on the research question as to which is the most appropriate design.
所以我认为两者都很重要，但这实际上取决于研究问题，即哪个是最合适的设计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How long have you been training?
你训练了多长时间？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
14 years, something like that.
14年，就这样吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So with that caveat, people are going to want to know- ...
因此，有了这个警告，人们会想知道——......
what is your general routine now, and how much does it look like or differ from what you described earlier?
你现在的日常习惯是什么？它与你之前描述的有什么相似或不同？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
It's definitely changed over the years.
这些年来它肯定发生了变化。
I went through phases of really trying to maximize strength, and I got injured a lot.
我经历了真正努力最大化力量的阶段，但我受伤了很多。
And then when I've been in phases of doing data collection, I've had to really scale back from my training because your schedule is not your own.
然后，当我进入数据收集阶段时，我不得不真正缩减训练规模，因为你的日程安排不是你自己的。
Now I'm at a point where I like more frequency, so I tend to go more often, but not necessarily for really long sessions.
现在我正处于一个喜欢更多频率的阶段，所以我倾向于更频繁地去，但不一定是很长时间的会议。
So I go for a half hour, sometimes 45 minutes, but I like to go more frequently because then I feel like I'm better at keeping up with the habit.
所以我会花半小时，有时 45 分钟，但我喜欢更频繁地去，因为这样我觉得我能更好地保持这个习惯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
And so right now I do a split of an upper body push, an upper body pull, and a lower body, and I just kind of rotate through that.
所以现在我会分开进行上半身推、上半身拉和下半身，然后我就通过这些进行旋转。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So do you take a day off after six days of that?
那么六天之后你会休息一天吗？
So push, pull, legs, push, pull, legs, take a day off?
那么推、拉、腿、推、拉、腿，休息一天吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Or sometimes I'll do push, pull, legs, and take a day off, and then push, pull, legs, and take another day off.
或者有时我会做推、拉、腿，然后休息一天，然后再推、拉、腿，然后再休息一天。
I'm not as strict with it-
我对它没那么严格-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
...
...
because it does depend on my weekly schedule.
因为这确实取决于我每周的日程安排。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
But that rotation kind of allows me to always be able to go in and pick up where I left off.
但这种轮换让我总是能够继续我上次停下来的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you're doing the sets presumably the way you described before, getting close to failure or going to failure?
你大概是按照你之前描述的方式做组，接近失败还是即将失败？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah, I will typically get close to failure.
是的，我通常会接近失败。
Occasionally I will go to failure.
有时我会走向失败。
It kind of depends on the exercise.
这有点取决于练习。
I think if you're doing something particularly machine-based, then going to failure is pretty risk-free.
我认为，如果你正在做一些特别基于机器的事情，那么失败是相当没有风险的。
Either the weight moves or it doesn't.
重量要么移动，要么不移动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And cardio in addition to that?
除此之外还有有氧运动吗？
Dedicated cardio?
专门做有氧运动？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I will do some, but not regularly, because I tend to be physically active hiking with my dogs, and I prefer to be outside if I can, getting my physical activity than on a StairMaster, on an incline treadmill.
我会做一些，但不是经常做，因为我倾向于和我的狗一起徒步旅行，如果可以的话，我更喜欢在户外进行身体活动，而不是在 StairMaster 上，在倾斜的跑步机上。
But I'll do it if the weather is bad.
但如果天气不好的话我会这么做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think the routine you just described sounds really doable.
我认为你刚才描述的例程听起来确实可行。
The routine you described earlier sounds really doable.
您之前描述的例程听起来确实可行。
Do you think mobility work is important for women or men?
您认为流动工作对女性重要还是对男性重要？
Dedicated mobility work.
专门的流动性工作。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Not really, because I think if you are doing full body training through a full range of motion, then as you are warming up with those lighter sets and making sure that you are moving through your full range of motion, you're already getting that built-in mobility work.
不是真的，因为我认为如果你正在通过全方位的运动进行全身训练，那么当你用那些较轻的组进行热身并确保你正在进行全方位的运动时，你已经得到了内置的灵活性训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
So if it makes you feel good, then great, but I think a dynamic general warm-up versus a specific let's do some of the target exercise with lighter loads and move through that, they can be equally effective.
所以，如果它让你感觉良好，那就太好了，但我认为动态的一般热身与特定的让我们用较轻的负荷做一些目标练习并完成它，它们可以同样有效。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to make sure I double-click on something you said earlier.
我想确保我双击了您之前所说的内容。
You said the long-term outcomes of these hormone replacement therapy studies on women do not show improvements in cognition, et cetera.
您说这些针对女性的激素替代疗法研究的长期结果并未显示出认知等方面的改善。
My understanding of that large data set was that women who started hormone replacement therapy as they entered menopause fared better than those that didn't.
我对这个大数据集的理解是，进入更年期时开始激素替代疗法的女性比那些没有开始激素替代疗法的女性表现更好。
But those that started it after menopause, it didn't turn out well.
但那些在更年期后开始使用的人，结果并不好。
Maybe I'm not up on the latest of these.
也许我不了解最新的这些。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Well, it depends which outcome you're interested in.
好吧，这取决于您对哪个结果感兴趣。
But one of the biggest Issues historically was in the early 2000s, Women's Health Initiative was doing a set of studies looking at hormone therapy.
但历史上最大的问题之一是在 2000 年代初期，女性健康倡议正在进行一系列关于激素疗法的研究。
It was older versions of hormone therapy, but ultimately, the goal was to evaluate the utility of that estrogen-based hormone therapy for reduced risk of cardiovascular disease.
这是激素疗法的旧版本，但最终的目标是评估基于雌激素的激素疗法在降低心血管疾病风险方面的效用。
And they stopped one of the trials early because they saw that it wasn't reducing risk, and that perhaps it was going in the other direction, and so they couldn't ethically continue the trial.
他们提前停止了其中一项试验，因为他们发现这并没有降低风险，而且可能会朝另一个方向发展，因此他们无法在道德上继续进行试验。
But the media had a field day with this and kind of twisted things and then the message to the public was that hormone therapy causes heart disease, hormone therapy causes cancer.
但媒体对这种扭曲的事情大肆宣传，然后向公众传达的信息是激素疗法会导致心脏病，激素疗法会导致癌症。
And it took a lot of years to really unpack that, to say, "Okay, what does the data actually say?
我们花了很多年的时间才真正解开这个谜团，然后说：“好吧，数据实际上说明了什么？
What was that study designed to assess?" Because it's one of the largest data sets to date on all sorts of outcome measures.
这项研究旨在评估什么？”因为它是迄今为止关于各种结果指标的最大数据集之一。
But what it doesn't say is a blanket statement, hormone therapy is terrible for this person or for that reason, or here is when everyone needs to start it.
但它没有说的是一个笼统的声明，激素疗法对于这个人或出于这个原因是可怕的，或者这是每个人都需要开始的时候。
Because, to your point, there were people who were at a variety of ages and menopause status.
因为，就你而言，有些人处于不同的年龄和更年期状态。
So there's work that has come out since looking more specifically at outcomes like muscle mass, bone density, cognitive health.
因此，自从更具体地研究肌肉质量、骨密度、认知健康等结果以来，已经出现了一些工作。
And then there's also trials that are more observational in nature or cross-sectional and saying, "Oh, can we look at this to identify some patterns that we could then go investigate in a clinical trial?" And there's a tendency to kind of jump the gun and say, "Well, based on this potential pattern, then it looks like there might be this health benefit." And then the message gets misconstrued into, "If you take it, you'll never get Alzheimer's, or you'll never get dementia," and that's not an appropriate representation of the data.
还有一些试验本质上更具观察性或横截面，并说：“哦，我们可以看看这个来确定一些模式，然后我们可以在临床试验中进行研究吗？”人们倾向于说，“好吧，根据这种潜在的模式，那么看起来可能会对健康有益。”然后该信息被误解为“如果你服用它，你将永远不会患上阿尔茨海默氏症，或者你永远不会患上痴呆症”，而这并不是数据的适当表示。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm just curious, so deliberate cold exposure.
我只是好奇，所以故意暴露在寒冷中。
Yay, nay, meh, depends?
是的，不，嗯，取决于？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Depends.
视情况而定。
I think the most compelling benefits are probably the kind of mental clarity and psychological well-being as opposed to the physiology.
我认为最引人注目的好处可能是头脑清晰和心理健康，而不是生理上的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Zone 2?
2区？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
It's fine.
没关系。
It's certainly necessary with long-term endurance training goals, but if you prefer higher intensity or other forms of moderate physical activity, then do that instead.
对于长期耐力训练目标来说，这当然是必要的，但如果您更喜欢更高强度或其他形式的适度体力活动，那就这样做吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Weight vests.
重量背心。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Skip.
跳过。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really?
真的吗？
I'm surprised too.
我也很惊讶。
Please tell me more.
请告诉我更多。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Because weighted vests are being marketed to women as an alternative for resistance training.
因为加重背心正在向女性推销，作为阻力训练的替代品。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh.
哦。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Walking with a weighted vest.
穿着加重背心行走。
And so walking with a weighted vest is not going to improve muscle or bone.
因此，穿着加重背心走路并不会改善肌肉或骨骼。
It's not the appropriate stimulus.
这不是适当的刺激。
So if you want to use the vest to maybe do some squats or lunges or jumping exercises, then that might be an appropriate use case for it.
因此，如果您想使用背心进行一些下蹲、弓步或跳跃练习，那么这可能是一个合适的用例。
But just going on walks with a weighted vest is not a substitute for resistance training.
但仅仅穿着加重背心散步并不能替代阻力训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Arm hang test as an indirect measure of longevity.
手臂悬挂测试作为寿命的间接衡量标准。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I would skip that.
我会跳过那个。
I think we have a lot of data in grip strength because grip strength is really easy to measure in clinical settings in people who have never exercised, including people who are on bed rest.
我认为我们有很多关于握力的数据，因为在临床环境中，对于从未锻炼过的人（包括卧床休息的人）来说，握力确实很容易测量。
So we know there's a relationship between grip strength and, quote-unquote, longevity because grip strength is a proxy for overall strength.
所以我们知道握力和寿命之间存在关系，因为握力是整体力量的代表。
So instead of worrying about testing or training grip strength, we should be focusing on doing our full body resistance training.
因此，我们不应该担心测试或训练握力，而应该专注于进行全身阻力训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Jumping up onto or off of things specifically to get a longevity or safety effect.
专门跳上或跳下物体以获得长寿或安全效果。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I'd rather incorporate some sort of balance training into your resistance training session.
我宁愿将某种平衡训练纳入您的阻力训练课程中。
So we could do that through unilateral exercises or through something like a walking lunge, and then we're making sure that we're kind of working in full ranges of motion in different planes of motion.
因此，我们可以通过单侧练习或弓箭步之类的方式来做到这一点，然后我们确保我们在不同的运动平面上进行全方位的运动。
Because that way, if we have good balance and we have our strength and muscle mass, and we're able to coordinate that movement, then if we start to fall, we'll also be able to catch ourselves.
因为这样，如果我们有良好的平衡，我们有力量和肌肉质量，并且我们能够协调该运动，那么如果我们开始跌倒，我们也能够抓住自己。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Dedicated abdominal work, and if it's a yes, what's your favorite recommendation?
专门的腹部锻炼，如果是的话，您最喜欢的建议是什么？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Any kind of abdominal exercise is not going to burn off your belly fat.
任何类型的腹部运动都不会燃烧腹部脂肪。
So if you want to hypertrophy your rectus abdominis, then you need to treat it like any other muscle group and load it progressively.
因此，如果您想使腹直肌肥大，那么您需要像对待任何其他肌肉群一样对待它，并逐步对其施加负荷。
But I think most women who are doing hundreds of crunches are hoping that it's going to make them leaner, not that it's going to grow their abs.
但我认为大多数做数百次仰卧起坐的女性都希望这能让她们变得更瘦，而不是让她们的腹肌变大。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Favorite exercise that you don't see people doing that they might want to try with the appropriate instruction?
您最喜欢但没有看到人们在做但他们可能想在适当的指导下尝试的运动？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just like a fun one that you like or...
就像你喜欢的一个有趣的或......
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
I like a single leg RDL, Romanian deadlift, and you can hold onto something.
我喜欢单腿 RDL、罗马尼亚硬拉，而且你可以抓住一些东西。
And so you're getting kind of a good glute and hamstring on a single side, and you can also incorporate a kind of balance component into that if you don't want to hold onto something for stability.
所以你在单侧得到了很好的臀肌和腿筋，如果你不想抓住某些东西来保持稳定，你也可以在其中加入一种平衡成分。
I like to put one of those barbell pads on a low bar in a squat rack.
我喜欢将其中一个杠铃垫放在深蹲架的低杆上。
So then you can put the top of your foot on the pad, and then it's more comfortable than putting your foot on the bench.
那么你就可以把脚面放在垫子上，然后就比把脚放在长凳上舒服多了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And do you hold the dumbbell on the side that's doing the work or on the side with the leg back when you do those?
当你做这些动作时，你是把哑铃握在做动作的一侧还是腿向后的一侧？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
You can do it either way.
无论哪种方式你都可以做到。
I prefer to hold it on the same side.
我更喜欢把它放在同一侧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Last question.
最后一个问题。
Is there anything that's been scientifically shown to accelerate recovery from resistance training?
科学证明有什么东西可以加速阻力训练的恢复吗？
Not just move out soreness, although if it does that, great, but to accelerate recovery, meaning to get you from the stimulus to the adaptation more quickly.
不仅仅是消除酸痛（尽管如果能做到这一点那就太好了），而是加速恢复，意味着让你更快地从刺激到适应。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
A lot to attenuate soreness, but to accelerate the adaptation?
减轻疼痛很多，但加速适应？
If you want to accelerate recovery, then you're potentially compromising adaptation.
如果你想加速恢复，那么你可能会牺牲适应能力。
So ice baths are a perfect example of that.
所以冰浴就是一个完美的例子。
You're getting more recovery, but you're possibly blunting the hypertrophic stimulus.
你会得到更多的恢复，但你可能会减弱肥厚刺激。
So same with NSAIDs.
NSAID 也是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Same with NSAIDs.
与非甾体抗炎药相同。
Yeah.
是的。
They will block hypertrophy because they reduce inflammation.
它们会阻止肥大，因为它们可以减少炎症。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Right.
对。
And we want that inflammation, at least short term.
我们希望这种炎症，至少是短期的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, Lauren, Dr. Colenso Simple, this was amazing.
好吧，劳伦，科伦索·简单博士，这太棒了。
First of all, thank you so much for coming here and talking with us, with the audience today.
首先，非常感谢您今天来到这里与我们、与观众交谈。
Thank you for being a rational, scientific voice online.
感谢您在网上发出理性、科学的声音。
I will say with a high degree of confidence that what you described before, that it's very hard to get attention for the basics and for what's known in a landscape where other things seem to lend favor.
我会非常有信心地说，正如您之前所描述的那样，在其他事物似乎有利的情况下，很难引起人们对基础知识和已知事物的关注。
I think there's been a lot of that now, and I'm confident that you're going to be the signal in a lot of noise, so that things invert.
我认为现在已经有很多这样的事情了，我相信你会成为很多噪音中的信号，所以事情会发生逆转。
And it's a wonderful thing that you're doing what you're doing.
你正在做你正在做的事情，这是一件很棒的事情。
I really appreciate the clarity of your answers, and I also have to say I really appreciate your Instagram, et cetera.
我真的很感谢你清晰的答案，我也不得不说我真的很感谢你的 Instagram 等等。
Are there other things that you're doing now that people can find you?
您现在还在做其他事情以便人们可以找到您吗？
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I write a monthly research review with three other PhDs, Eric Trexler, Eric Helms, and Michael Zordos.
我与另外三位博士（埃里克·特雷克斯勒、埃里克·赫尔姆斯和迈克尔·佐多斯）每月撰写一份研究评论。
And we release that, like I said, monthly, and it's all sorts of topics in health, fitness, wellness.
正如我所说，我们每月发布一次，涉及健康、健身、保健等各种主题。
And we kind of break down the latest science and give you actionable take-home.
我们会分解最新的科学知识，并为您提供可操作的收获。
So if you're someone who likes the deep dive into the science and also wants to know in the context of the literature as a whole, what should I do?
因此，如果您是一个喜欢深入研究科学并且也想了解整个文献背景的人，我该怎么办？
Then check out Mass Research Review.
然后查看《大众研究评论》。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
All right.
好的。
We'll put a link to that also.
我们也会添加一个链接。
Well, thank you so much.
嗯，非常感谢。
Definitely come back when there are more data to discuss.
当有更多数据可供讨论时一定会回来。
I'm sure it won't be long.
我相信不会太久。
And it'll be interesting to see how the landscape changes.
看看情况如何变化将会很有趣。
But like I said before, thanks for being the signal and the noise.
但就像我之前说的，感谢你成为信号和噪音。
Appreciate you.
感谢你。
Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple:
劳伦·科伦索-森普尔博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Lauren Colenso Semple.
感谢您参加今天与 Lauren Colenso Semple 博士的讨论。
To learn more about her work, please see the links in the show note captions.
要了解有关她的作品的更多信息，请参阅演出注释标题中的链接。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请通过单击 Spotify 和 Apple 上的关注按钮来关注播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review, and you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您可以给我们留下五星级的评论，现在您可以在 Spotify 和 Apple 上给我们留下评论。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客或嘉宾有意见，或者您希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑的主题，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这本书是我花了五年多时间编写的，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验。
And it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它涵盖了从睡眠到运动再到压力控制的所有协议，以及与注意力和动机相关的协议，当然，我为所包含的协议提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." And if you're not already following me on social media, I am Huberman Lab on all social media platforms.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 Huberman Lab。
So that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客上的信息不同。
Again, it's Huberman Lab on all social media platforms.
同样，所有社交媒体平台上都是 Huberman Lab。
And if you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as what we call protocols in the form of one to three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep, how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及我们所说的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议，涵盖从如何优化睡眠、如何优化多巴胺、故意冷暴露等所有内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training.
我们有一个基本的健身方案，涵盖心血管训练和阻力训练。
All of that is available completely zero cost.
所有这些都是完全零成本可用的。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to Newsletter, and enter your email.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的菜单选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯，然后输入您的电子邮件。
And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Lauren Colenso Semple.
再次感谢您参加今天与 Lauren Colenso Semple 博士的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
You want to impress them on a first date but also play it cool.
你想在第一次约会时给他们留下深刻的印象，但也要表现得冷静。
So what do you do?
那么你做什么呢？
I'm Ruthie Thorpe, and I wrote and read a real love story about a Hinge couple that navigated exactly that.
我是露丝·索普（Ruthie Thorpe），我写过并读过一个关于一对铰链夫妇的真实爱情故事，正是这样的故事。
Listen to the free audiobook now.
立即收听免费有声读物。