How to Speak Clearly & With Confidence | Matt Abrahams
Andrew Huberman: Do you ever recommend people memorize speeches?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你曾经建议人们背诵演讲吗？
Matt Abrahams: Never.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：从来没有。
The reason memorizing is so bad is it burdens your cognitive load.
记忆力如此糟糕的原因是它加重了你的认知负担。
You've created the right way to say it, and you're constantly comparing what you wanted to say to what you're actually saying.
你已经创造了正确的表达方式，并且不断将你想说的话与你实际所说的话进行比较。
So having a roadmap, having a structure, having some familiarity with some ideas are important.
因此，制定路线图、制定结构、熟悉一些想法非常重要。
If there are certain words that you really want to get across or certain data, have a note card, read it.
如果您确实想了解某些单词或某些数据，请准备一张记事卡并阅读它。
I'd rather you do that than put the cognitive burden on yourself of memorizing.
我宁愿你这样做，也不愿把记忆的认知负担加在自己身上。
Andrew Huberman: Several people asked about how best to communicate with people who are not very good at communicating.
Andrew Huberman：有几个人问如何最好地与不擅长沟通的人沟通。
Matt Abrahams: I would encourage people to lead with questions.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我鼓励人们用问题来引导。
Draw the other person out.
把对方拉出来。
Often, if you can get them talking about something that's important to them or connected to what you want, then you can engage in that conversation.
通常，如果您能让他们谈论对他们来说很重要或与您想要的内容相关的事情，那么您就可以参与该对话。
So again, it's pre-work, it's thinking about what's of value.
再说一遍，这是工作前的事情，要考虑什么是有价值的。
Lead with questions, and then as soon as the person responds, give them space to tell more.
以问题引导，一旦对方做出回应，就给他们空间来讲述更多内容。
Matt Abrahams: My mother-in-law had a black belt in small talk.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我的岳母是闲聊黑带。
She was amazing.
她太棒了。
She was from the Midwest.
她来自中西部。
Every time she'd fly out to visit, she'd come off the plane with three new best friends, and her secret, and you mentioned this earlier, were three words: "Tell me more." Once somebody answers a question, give them that space to say more, and that really draws them out and gives you some ideas of what's important to them, so you can latch on and talk about it more.
每次她飞出去探望时，她都会和三个新的最好的朋友一起下飞机，而她的秘密，你之前提到过，就是三个字：“告诉我更多。”一旦有人回答了问题，给他们空间说更多，这确实能吸引他们的注意力，并让你了解对他们来说重要的事情，这样你就可以抓住并更多地谈论它。
So lead with questions, give space for more communication.
因此，以问题引导，为更多的沟通留出空间。
That's how you draw somebody who might be reticent or not comfortable speaking.
这就是你如何画出一个沉默寡言或不善于说话的人。
Andrew Huberman: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
Andrew Huberman：欢迎来到 Huberman 实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
Andrew Huberman: I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，我是斯坦福大学医学院的神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Matt Abrahams from Stanford Graduate School of Business.
今天我的嘉宾是斯坦福大学商学院的马特·亚伯拉罕斯。
Matt is an expert in speaking and communication on stage, online, in person, and in all circumstances.
马特是舞台、网络、面对面以及各种情况下演讲和沟通的专家。
Andrew Huberman: During today's episode, we discuss how to become a better communicator, everything from protocols that work to eliminate "ums," how to deal with on-stage fright, how to practice speaking more clearly, and equally important, how to remember important facts and synthesize information that you learn from others.
安德鲁·休伯曼：在今天的节目中，我们讨论如何成为一个更好的沟通者，从消除“嗯”的协议、如何应对舞台恐惧、如何练习更清晰地说话，以及同样重要的，如何记住重要事实并综合从他人那里学到的信息。
Humans are extremely visual, and we are extremely verbal, and what we hear sticks with us, and how things are said matters tremendously, too.
人类的视觉能力非常强，我们的语言能力也非常强，我们所听到的内容会牢牢记住，而说话的方式也非常重要。
Andrew Huberman: We all register people's levels of confidence or anxiety when they speak, and that determines what we remember and what we forget, and also what we remember and forget about them.
Andrew Huberman：我们都会记录人们说话时的自信或焦虑程度，这决定了我们记住什么和忘记什么，以及我们记住和忘记他们的什么。
During today's episode, Matt explains tools that have been proven to work, that you can practice alone, or that you can use in real time to improve your communication skills.
在今天的节目中，马特解释了已被证明有效的工具，您可以单独练习，或者可以实时使用这些工具来提高您的沟通技巧。
He also explains what it really means to communicate authentically.
他还解释了真诚沟通的真正含义。
We hear about authenticity all the time, but Matt makes clear exactly what that is, how to tap into it, and how to deliver information in your own unique voice.
我们一直听说真实性，但马特明确说明了真实性是什么、如何利用它以及如何以自己独特的声音传递信息。
Andrew Huberman: He also offers great tools for when things go wrong and how to recover from those situations with grace.
Andrew Huberman：他还提供了一些很好的工具，帮助我们在出现问题时以及如何优雅地从这些情况中恢复过来。
Matt Abrahams is considered one of the foremost experts in communication, and I'm sure that everyone, women, men, young and old, will benefit from what he teaches today.
马特·亚伯拉罕被认为是最重要的沟通专家之一，我相信每个人，无论男女老少，都会从他今天的教学中受益。
Andrew Huberman: Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
Andrew Huberman：在我们开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors.
为了与这个主题保持一致，今天的节目确实有赞助商。
Andrew Huberman: And now for my discussion with Matt Abrahams.
安德鲁·休伯曼：现在我与马特·亚伯拉罕进行讨论。
Matt Abrahams, welcome.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯，欢迎。
Matt Abrahams: Thanks, Andrew.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：谢谢，安德鲁。
I'm thrilled to be here.
我很高兴来到这里。
Andrew Huberman: Teach us how to communicate better, but please do it in the context of not just public speaking but one-on-one interactions, spontaneous interactions, as well as planned interactions.
Andrew Huberman：教我们如何更好地沟通，但请不仅仅是在公开演讲的背景下进行，而是在一对一的互动、自发的互动以及有计划的互动中进行。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Basically, I'm asking you to solve a number of problems that people have, but I think we often hear that one of the major fears people have is public speaking.
安德鲁·休伯曼：基本上，我要求你解决人们遇到的许多问题，但我认为我们经常听到人们最担心的问题之一是公开演讲。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But I think it's highly contextual, right?
Andrew Huberman：但我认为这是高度相关的，对吗？
Like, when we think public speaking, we think, being forced out on a stage to talk about a topic we don't know or something, but what do you think that fear of public speaking is really about?
就像，当我们想到公开演讲时，我们会想，被迫上台谈论我们不知道的话题或其他什么，但你认为对公开演讲的恐惧到底是什么？
Is it the fear of being shamed, of saying something stupid, of dissolving into a puddle of our own tears on stage?
是害怕被羞辱、害怕说些蠢话、害怕在舞台上化成一滩泪水吗？
What is it?
它是什么？
Because in some sense, it's kind of illogical.
因为从某种意义上来说，这是不合逻辑的。
Matt Abrahams: Well, those of us who study this believe it actually has an evolutionary basis, that when our species was hanging around in groups of about 150 people, your relative status meant everything, and I'm not talking about who has the fancy car or who gets the most likes on social media.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯，我们这些研究这个问题的人相信它实际上有进化基础，当我们的物种以大约 150 人为单位闲逛时，你的相对地位就意味着一切，我不是在谈论谁拥有豪华汽车或谁在社交媒体上获得最多的赞。
It's who got access to resources, food, shelter, reproduction, and if you did something that put your status at risk, that could be really bad news for you.
是谁获得了资源、食物、住所、繁殖，如果你做了一些让你的地位处于危险之中的事情，那对你来说可能是一个真正的坏消息。
So, those of us who study this believe it's ingrained in who we are to be very sensitive to anything that puts our status at risk, and that can be being up in front of a big crowd or talking to my boss about an important issue.
因此，我们这些研究这一问题的人相信，我们对任何危及我们地位的事情都非常敏感，这可能是在一大群人面前或与我的老板谈论一个重要问题。
All of those put us at risk.
所有这些都使我们处于危险之中。
Andrew Huberman: We often hear that what is being said is perhaps not as important as how it's being said.
Andrew Huberman：我们经常听说，所说的内容可能并不重要，重要的是如何说。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: The timbre of one's voice, the eye contact, the body language, et cetera.
Andrew Huberman：一个人的音色、眼神交流、肢体语言等等。
Whenever I hear that, I often think, it's kind of a skewed perspective.
每当我听到这句话时，我常常想，这是一种扭曲的观点。
It's got to be the sum total of it all, right?
它必须是所有内容的总和，对吧？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, absolutely.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，绝对是。
I mean, what you say is really important.
我的意思是，你说的话真的很重要。
If it doesn't make sense, if it's not logical, if it's confusing, that puts you in a bad light.
如果它没有意义，如果不符合逻辑，如果它令人困惑，那就会让你处于不利的境地。
But similarly, how you say it, if you're confident, if you're upright, if you use a strong voice, that matters, too.
但同样，你怎么说，是否自信，是否正直，是否使用强有力的声音，这也很重要。
So those of us who do what I do are really intent in helping people not only craft messages that are meaningful, but to deliver them in a way that can actually be connected, authentic, and engaging.
因此，我们这些从事我所做工作的人不仅致力于帮助人们制作有意义的信息，而且以一种真正具有联系性、真实性和吸引力的方式传递这些信息。
Both are important.
两者都很重要。
Andrew Huberman: So, when I think about online communications and in-person communications, where somebody is on a stage, and they're selected to talk about something, and the expectation is that they're going to engage us.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以，当我想到在线交流和面对面交流时，有人在舞台上，他们被选中谈论一些事情，我们期望他们能够与我们互动。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I like to think of this concept that a friend told me about, you know, that the first thing we want to know as an audience member is, has this person earned the right to have my time?
安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢思考一个朋友告诉我的这个概念，你知道，作为观众，我们首先想知道的是，这个人是否有权享受我的时间？
So, typically, people will talk about their titles and their experience, and so how much of the fear of public speaking do you think comes from people's kind of need to kind of explain or justify that they've earned the right to actually take your time and talk to you.
因此，通常情况下，人们会谈论他们的头衔和经验，所以你认为人们对公开演讲的恐惧有多少是来自于人们需要解释或证明他们已经赢得了真正花时间与你交谈的权利。
Because you hear a lot of filling of credentials and things like that.
因为你会听到很多填写凭证之类的事情。
Let me just sort of counter that with the possibility that came to me, which is that people don't want to hear that at all.
让我用我想到的可能性来反驳这一点，那就是人们根本不想听到这个。
They just want to hear what somebody has to say.
他们只是想听听别人说什么。
Matt Abrahams: Right, and I tend to agree with that.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，我倾向于同意这一点。
I coach my students, the folks I work with in the corporate world, that what's really important is connection.
我指导我的学生以及在企业界与我一起工作的人们，真正重要的是联系。
So, if you can show that you have some value to bring by getting people engaged with your topic and showing that there is relevance and salience for them, that's all that really matters.
因此，如果您能够通过让人们参与您的主题并表明对他们来说具有相关性和显着性，从而表明您可以带来一些价值，那么这才是真正重要的。
Your credibility, while it informs what you say, doesn't need to be the first thing you say.
你的可信度虽然会影响你所说的话，但并不一定是你所说的第一件事。
I'm on a personal mission to stop presentations and meetings from starting with people just giving their credentials, telling the titles of what they're saying.
我个人的使命是阻止人们在演讲和会议时仅仅提供他们的凭据，告诉他们所说内容的标题。
Get us hooked.
让我们着迷。
I tell people it's like an action movie.
我告诉人们这就像一部动作片。
How does every action movie you've ever seen start?
您看过的每一部动作片都是如何开始的？
With action.
用行动。
Do something that engages the audience.
做一些吸引观众的事情。
Matt Abrahams: I'm not saying crash a car and jump out of a plane, but make a provocative statement, ask a question, give some interesting statistics, show what you're saying means for the people, and then you're enabled to engage them in a dialogue, and that's where connection happens.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我并不是说撞车然后从飞机上跳下来，而是发表一个挑衅性的声明，提出一个问题，提供一些有趣的统计数据，展示你所说的对人们意味着什么，然后你就可以让他们参与对话，这就是联系发生的地方。
So credentialing is important, but it doesn't happen right away.
因此，认证很重要，但它不会立即发生。
You demonstrate your credibility.
你展示了你的可信度。
Matt Abrahams: I teach my students that there are two types of credibility.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我告诉我的学生，可信度有两种类型。
There's your career and college credibility, something you'd see in your LinkedIn profile or your resume, and then what I call Costco Credibility.
这是你的职业和大学信誉，你可以在 LinkedIn 个人资料或简历中看到的东西，然后是我所说的 Costco 信誉。
You know, when you go to Costco, they give you free samples?
你知道，当你去 Costco 时，他们会给你免费样品吗？
You try it, you like it.
你尝试一下，你就会喜欢它。
Show people through the questions you ask, through the engagement you have, through the relevance you bring, that's how you build credibility.
通过你提出的问题、通过你的参与度、通过你带来的相关性向人们展示，这就是你建立可信度的方式。
Andrew Huberman: I totally agree, and this raises the issue not only of credibility, but of authenticity.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我完全同意，这不仅提出了可信度问题，还提出了真实性问题。
We hear so much about authenticity, authenticity, and I've been thinking a lot about that recently.
我们听到了很多关于真实性、真实性的说法，最近我对此进行了很多思考。
What is this authenticity thing, in terms of people being able to tap into it, or maybe that runs counter to authenticity, like you're not supposed to tap into anything, you're supposed to just be you?
就人们能够利用它而言，这个真实性是什么？或者也许这与真实性背道而驰，就像你不应该利用任何东西，你应该只是你自己？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, so I think it comes down to really understanding what's important to you and what you stand for, and coming from that place.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，所以我认为这取决于真正了解什么对你来说是重要的，你代表什么，以及来自那个地方。
So, what does that mean?
那么，这意味着什么呢？
That means when you're talking about anything, on a big stage or in a one-on-one interaction, understanding where the value is for you, and then articulating that in as clear a way as possible.
这意味着当你在大舞台上或在一对一的互动中谈论任何事情时，要了解对你来说价值在哪里，然后以尽可能清晰的方式阐明这一点。
So just be true to your beliefs, but you have to first understand and take the time to think about what those are.
因此，只要忠于你的信念，但你必须首先理解并花时间思考这些信念是什么。
Many of us are nervous or so worried about getting through all our material, we don't focus on coming from a firm, clear, connected place.
我们中的许多人都对读完所有材料感到紧张或担心，我们没有专注于来自一个坚定、清晰、相互联系的地方。
So, it really has to do with introspection first, and then you convert that into something that's meaningful for the audience.
所以，这确实首先与内省有关，然后将其转化为对观众有意义的东西。
That's what I think authenticity is.
我认为这就是真实性。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I feel like part of this authenticity thing that we're exploring also has to do with the person delivering the information, that they're doing it in a way where they are not constantly monitoring what the audience thinks of them.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：是的，我觉得我们正在探索的真实性的一部分也与提供信息的人有关，他们这样做的方式并不总是监视观众对他们的看法。
This seems to be central to effective communication, that monitoring for one's performance, and other people's perception of them trying to get a running score of how well they're doing, really runs counter to effective communication.
这似乎是有效沟通的核心，监控一个人的表现以及其他人对他们的看法，试图获得他们做得如何的运行分数，实际上与有效沟通背道而驰。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely, 100%.
马特·亚伯拉罕：当然，100%。
The more we are in our heads judging and evaluating, the more difficult it is to be present and connected to somebody.
我们在头脑中判断和评估的次数越多，与某人相处并与之建立联系就越困难。
I do this activity in my class on the first day that really shows how in our heads we can get.
我第一天在课堂上做了这个活动，它真正展示了我们的头脑如何发挥作用。
I borrowed this from improvisation.
这是我从即兴创作中借来的。
I have my students stand up, and for 15 seconds, they just point at different objects in the room, and the only rule is to call it something that it is not.
我让我的学生站起来，在 15 秒的时间里，他们只是指着房间里的不同物体，唯一的规则就是称其为某物，但它不是。
Andrew Huberman: Mm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
Matt Abrahams: So, you point at the ceiling, and you call it a car.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，你指着天花板，然后称它为汽车。
You point at the floor, and you call it a calculator.
你指着地板，你称它为计算器。
And for 15 seconds, this is very challenging.
而15秒，这是非常具有挑战性的。
I had a student once who's pointing at a chair.
我曾经有一个学生指着一把椅子。
Nothing's coming out of his mouth, and I go up, I say, "What's going on?" He said, "I'm not being wrong enough." I gave no rubric, no requirements.
他嘴里什么也没说，我走上前去，问道：“发生了什么事？”他说：“我错得还不够多。”我没有给出标题，没有要求。
I said, "Tell me more." He said, "Well, I was going to call the chair a cat, but a cat has four legs, and a chair has four legs.
我说：“告诉我更多。”他说：“好吧，我本来打算称这把椅子为猫，但猫有四条腿，椅子也有四条腿。
I'm not being wrong enough.
我错得还不够多。
Sometimes a cat sits on a chair.
有时一只猫坐在椅子上。
I'm not being wrong enough."
我错的还不够多。”
Matt Abrahams: We are all on this continuum he's on, judging and evaluating.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我们都在他所处的连续体上，进行判断和评估。
He's clearly several standard deviations away from most of us, but we all carry around this judgment in our head, and what it does is it locks us internally and not allows us to be external.
显然，他与我们大多数人相差几个标准差，但我们的头脑中都带着这样的判断，它的作用是将我们锁在内部，不允许我们外在。
So, you're absolutely right.
所以，你是完全正确的。
And when I'm focused on judging what I'm saying, I'm using precious cognitive bandwidth that I could be spending on making sure you clearly understand my message.
当我专注于判断我所说的内容时，我正在使用宝贵的认知带宽，我可以将其用于确保您清楚地理解我的信息。
This is why memorizing what you're trying to say works against you, because that precious cognitive bandwidth, trying to get it right, gets in the way of actually doing it.
这就是为什么记住你想说的话对你不利，因为试图正确表达的宝贵认知带宽会妨碍你真正做到这一点。
So, we need to train ourselves to understand that the magic of communication happens in the moment and not what's happening in your head before.
因此，我们需要训练自己了解沟通的魔力发生在当下，而不是之前发生在你脑海中的事情。
Andrew Huberman: What a great exercise.
安德鲁·休伯曼：多么棒的练习啊。
Do you recommend people do that on their own if they're trying to-
你是否建议人们自己这样做，如果他们想-
Matt Abrahams: As long as they're not driving.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：只要他们不开车。
And you know who's really good at this?
你知道谁最擅长这个吗？
Andrew Huberman: "That's not a red light, that's a green light."
安德鲁·休伯曼：“那不是红灯，而是绿灯。”
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, exactly.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，完全正确。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, exactly.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，完全正确。
Matt Abrahams: Children are fantastic at this because they don't have the inhibitions that we do.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：孩子们在这方面非常棒，因为他们没有我们那样的压抑。
Andrew Huberman: Mm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
Matt Abrahams: But anything that gets you to disrupt the judgment and evaluation that you do can be really helpful.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：但是任何能让你扰乱你所做的判断和评估的事情都可能非常有帮助。
Andrew Huberman: Mm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
Matt Abrahams: So if just a simple game like that, other improv activities as well, it just gets you to see, here's what I'm doing, this is my pattern, my habit.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，如果只是一个像这样的简单游戏，还有其他即兴活动，它会让你看到，这就是我正在做的事情，这是我的模式，我的习惯。
It identifies the heuristics that we carry around that actually get in the way of our communication.
它识别出我们随身携带的实际上妨碍我们沟通的启发法。
Andrew Huberman: Oh, that's so cool.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，那太酷了。
I sometimes like to play the game that I played when I was a kid, where you look at clouds, and you try and see what they look like, and it's so much fun.
我有时喜欢玩小时候玩的游戏，你可以看着云，尝试看看它们是什么样子，这非常有趣。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And it's a very childlike game.
Andrew Huberman：这是一个非常孩子气的游戏。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But it forces you to see clouds differently, the contours become certain things.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但它迫使你以不同的方式看待云，轮廓变成了某些东西。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And then, it's interesting.
Andrew Huberman：然后，这很有趣。
It almost always...
它几乎总是...
If you do this with somebody else, it's kind of fun to do.
如果你和其他人一起做这件事，那就很有趣。
It gives way to narration, where it looks like one cloud is eating another cloud.
它让位给旁白，看起来就像一朵云正在吃掉另一朵云。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: You start creating this narrative.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你开始创造这个叙述。
Right?
正确的？
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And, I did this recently with someone, and it was a lot of fun.
Andrew Huberman：而且，我最近和某人一起做了这个，这很有趣。
And then at some point, you're like, "Wow, that really looks like..."
然后在某个时候，你会想，“哇，那真的看起来像......”
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And then, you know, whatever it was that, that we happen to see.
安德鲁·休伯曼：然后，你知道，无论我们碰巧看到了什么。
Matt Abrahams: What I think enables that, and what allows you to have that fun, is that you're suspending judgment for a little bit, and you're just letting things flow freely.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为能够做到这一点，并且让你享受这种乐趣的原因是，你暂时搁置了判断，只是让事情自由流动。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: And it is in doing that, that you begin to build a confidence in what happens in the moment.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：正是在这样做的过程中，你开始对当下发生的事情建立信心。
A lot of my work recently has been on spontaneous speaking, speaking in the moment, and you can actually prepare to be spontaneous.
我最近的很多工作都是关于即兴演讲，即刻演讲，你实际上可以准备好即兴演讲。
If you think of an athlete, they do a lot of drills, and a lot of repetitive motions, so when they're in the game, they can respond appropriately.
如果你想到一个运动员，他们会做很多练习，做很多重复动作，所以当他们在比赛中时，他们可以做出适当的反应。
You can do the same thing with your speaking, but part of it is that mindset you have to take.
你可以在演讲中做同样的事情，但其中一部分是你必须采取的心态。
Get out of your own way, see what happens in the moment, and that frees you up to do what needs to be done when you're in that interaction.
摆脱你自己的方式，看看当下发生了什么，这样你就可以在互动中腾出时间去做需要做的事情。
Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Eight Sleep.
Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下，并向我们的赞助商“八睡”表示感谢。
Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep-tracking capacity.
八睡眠公司生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能的智能床垫套。
One of the best ways to ensure you get a great night's sleep is to make sure that the temperature of your sleeping environment is correct, and that's because in order to fall asleep and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about one to three degrees.
确保您睡个好觉的最佳方法之一是确保睡眠环境的温度正确，这是因为为了入睡并保持深度睡眠，您的体温实际上必须下降约一到三度。
And in order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature actually has to increase by about one to three degrees.
为了醒来时感觉神清气爽、精力充沛，您的体温实际上必须升高约一到三度。
Eight Sleep automatically regulates the temperature of your bed throughout the night, according to your unique needs.
八睡眠会根据您的独特需求自动调节整个晚上的床温。
Andrew Huberman: I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for nearly five years now, and it has completely transformed and improved the quality of my sleep.
Andrew Huberman：我已经睡在八睡眠床垫罩上近五年了，它彻底改变并改善了我的睡眠质量。
The latest Eight Sleep model is the Pod 5.
最新的八睡眠型号是 Pod 5。
This is what I'm now sleeping on, and I absolutely love it.
这就是我现在睡觉的地方，我非常喜欢它。
It has so many incredible features.
它有很多令人难以置信的功能。
For instance, the Pod 5 has a feature called Autopilot, which is an AI engine that learns your sleep patterns and then adjusts the temperature of your sleeping environment across different sleep stages.
例如，Pod 5有一个名为Autopilot的功能，这是一个人工智能引擎，可以学习你的睡眠模式，然后在不同的睡眠阶段调整你的睡眠环境温度。
It'll even elevate your head if you're snoring, and it makes other shifts to optimize your sleep.
如果您打鼾，它甚至会抬高您的头部，并进行其他转换以优化您的睡眠。
Andrew Huberman: If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, go to eightsleep.com/huberman to get up to $700 off the Pod 5 Ultra.
Andrew Huberman：如果您想尝试八睡眠，请访问八睡眠.com/huberman，Pod 5 Ultra 最高可享受 700 美元优惠。
This is Eight Sleep's biggest sale of the year.
这是“Eight Sleep”今年最大的一次促销活动。
It goes from now until December 1st, 2025.
有效期为即日起至2025年12月1日。
Eight Sleep ships to many countries worldwide, including Mexico and the UAE.
八号睡眠船运往世界各地的许多国家，包括墨西哥和阿联酋。
Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $700 now through December 1st, 2025.
同样，从现在到 2025 年 12 月 1 日，八睡眠.com/huberman 最多可节省 700 美元。
Andrew Huberman: Today's episode is also brought to us by BetterHelp.
Andrew Huberman：今天的节目也是由 BetterHelp 为我们带来的。
BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online.
BetterHelp 提供由持证治疗师完全在线进行的专业治疗。
Now, I've been doing weekly therapy for well over 30 years, and I've found it to be an extremely important component to my overall health.
现在，我每周进行一次治疗已经有 30 多年了，我发现它对我的整体健康来说是极其重要的组成部分。
There are essentially three things that great therapy provides.
伟大的治疗本质上可以提供三件事。
First, it provides good rapport with somebody that you can trust and discuss issues with.
首先，它与您可以信任并讨论问题的人建立了良好的融洽关系。
Second of all, it provides support in the form of emotional support or directed guidance.
其次，它以情感支持或定向指导的形式提供支持。
Andrew Huberman: And third, expert therapy provides useful insights, insights that can allow you to make changes to and improve your life, not just your emotional life and your relationship life, but also your professional life.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：第三，专家治疗提供了有用的见解，这些见解可以让你改变和改善你的生活，不仅仅是你的情感生活和人际关系生活，还有你的职业生活。
With BetterHelp, they make it very easy to find an expert therapist that can help provide the benefits that come from effective therapy.
通过 BetterHelp，他们可以轻松找到专业治疗师，帮助提供有效治疗带来的好处。
Also, because BetterHelp is done entirely online, it's very time efficient.
此外，由于 BetterHelp 完全在线完成，因此非常省时。
There's no driving to a therapist's office, looking for parking, et cetera.
无需开车去治疗师办公室、寻找停车位等。
If you'd like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month.
如果您想尝试 BetterHelp，请访问 betterhelp.com/huberman，第一个月可享受 10% 的折扣。
Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman.
再说一次，这是 betterhelp.com/huberman。
Andrew Huberman: When I do public lectures or when we do live events, sometimes do some crowd work, where I'll just cold call for...
Andrew Huberman：当我做公开讲座或当我们做现场活动时，有时会做一些人群工作，我会冷酷地呼吁......
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I usually ask for a body part, and I'm always afraid of what body parts will come up.
Andrew Huberman：我通常会要求提供身体部位，但我总是担心会出现什么身体部位。
Matt Abrahams: That's a brave cold call.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：这是一个勇敢的推销电话。
Andrew Huberman: And then I try and weave it to some real neuroscience or health-related fact.
Andrew Huberman：然后我尝试将其与一些真正的神经科学或健康相关的事实结合起来。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And it's always a lot of fun, but I do it as a way to break up the cadence.
Andrew Huberman：这总是很有趣，但我这样做是为了打破节奏。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Uh-huh.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Sometimes I think the difficulty in public speaking comes from the fact that as we go out there, we've done some preparation.
安德鲁·休伯曼：有时我认为公开演讲的困难来自于这样一个事实：当我们出去时，我们已经做了一些准备。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Maybe, we've memorized it.
Andrew Huberman：也许，我们已经记住了。
I typically don't.
我通常不会。
But we have some sense of what we're going to say, beginning, middle, end, et cetera.
但我们对要说什么、开头、中间、结尾等等都有一定的感觉。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: What's on the slides, but that the cadence can become so regular that we lose people.
Andrew Huberman：幻灯片上的内容是，节奏可能变得如此规律，以至于我们会失去人员。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And breaking up that cadence can be helpful, I think.
Andrew Huberman：我认为打破这种节奏可能会有所帮助。
And when I step back from public speaking experiences, both as the speaker, but also as an audience member, I feel like there's a almost a song-like nature to a talk, where it has an opener, and then it has a quicker pace, and then it repeats itself, and it's got some melodies and rhythms.
当我从公开演讲的经历中退一步，无论是作为演讲者，还是作为一名听众，我觉得演讲几乎有一种像歌曲一样的性质，它有一个开场白，然后它有一个更快的节奏，然后它自我重复，它有一些旋律和节奏。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And I like to think that really effective podcasting, not to make ourselves conscious of what we're doing here, has some of the same.
Andrew Huberman：我喜欢认为真正有效的播客，而不是让我们自己意识到我们在这里所做的事情，有一些相同的地方。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, I want to tell you a story that relates to that, but at some point, I'm going to shout out the word "earlobe," and I want to hear how you respond to that, because I'm amazed that you get up and ask people to call out body parts.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，我想告诉你一个与此相关的故事，但在某些时候，我会喊出“耳垂”这个词，我想听听你对此有何反应，因为我很惊讶你站起来并要求人们说出身体部位。
I did some work, when I was researching my recent book, where I interviewed the gentleman who's in charge of all LEGO manuals.
当我研究我最近的书时，我做了一些工作，采访了负责所有乐高手册的绅士。
I don't know if you've ever built LEGO or not, but-
我不知道你是否曾经搭建过乐高，但是-
Andrew Huberman: When I was a kid, yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：当我还是个孩子的时候，是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Their manuals have no words, and I've always been fascinated by it.
他们的手册没有文字，我一直对它很着迷。
Andrew Huberman: Love them.
安德鲁·休伯曼：爱他们。
Matt Abrahams: In my class, I will do a lesson where I will bring in a LEGO manual and an IKEA manual, which is, they're antithetical, and I have my students just discuss communication using these as two representations of ways to get information across.
马特·亚伯拉罕：在我的课堂上，我将做一堂课，我将引入乐高手册和宜家手册，也就是说，它们是对立的，我让我的学生使用它们作为获取信息的两种表示方式来讨论沟通。
The gentleman who runs that group shared with me that LEGO manual designers see the manual as a story, as a narrative.
负责该小组的那位先生与我分享，乐高手册设计师将手册视为一个故事，一个叙述。
All you're doing is putting pieces together.
你所做的就是将各个部分拼凑在一起。
Matt Abrahams: But what they found is, if you put all the same steps in the same order, you could...
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：但他们发现，如果你按照相同的顺序执行所有相同的步骤，你可以......
Each step could be the same number of moves with the same number of pieces.
每个步骤可以是相同数量的移动和相同数量的棋子。
People have a very different experience than if you give some moves that have a lot of hard, detailed work, some that are simpler, some that are faster.
如果你给出一些需要大量艰苦、细致工作的动作，一些更简单，一些更快，人们会有一种非常不同的体验。
So that rhythm you're talking about builds that motivation, builds that sense of accomplishment.
所以你所说的节奏可以建立动力，建立成就感。
They're looking to bring emotion into the act of building Lego models.
他们希望将情感带入乐高模型的建造过程中。
Andrew Huberman: Wow!
安德鲁·休伯曼：哇！
Matt Abrahams: Isn't that interesting?
马特·亚伯拉罕：这不是很有趣吗？
And that just emphasizes what you were talking about.
这只是强调了你正在谈论的内容。
Andrew Huberman: Is it the Scandinavians that-
安德鲁·休伯曼：是斯堪的纳维亚人吗-
Matt Abrahams: It's out of Denmark, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，它来自丹麦。
Andrew Huberman: Oh, okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，好吧。
My stepmom will be very pleased that we're talking about Lego.
我的继母会很高兴我们谈论乐高。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: She's Danish.
安德鲁·休伯曼：她是丹麦人。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是啊，是啊，是啊。
Andrew Huberman: Amazing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, isn't that fascinating?
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，这不是很有趣吗？
And if you can do it with a manual that has no words, that just has you putting bricks together, think about what you could do in your communication, one-on-one or one-to-many.
如果你可以用一本没有任何文字的手册来做到这一点，只需将积木放在一起，请考虑一下你可以在一对一或一对多的沟通中做什么。
What you're talking about, the rhythm, the patterns, the pattern disruption, all of that can lead to that engagement.
你所说的节奏、模式、模式破坏，所有这些都可以带来参与。
Andrew Huberman: I think about the way that we learn things as kids, like, the ABCs.
Andrew Huberman：我想到了我们小时候学习事物的方式，比如 ABC。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Not just a string of letters, but it has prosody, right?
Andrew Huberman：不仅仅是一串字母，还有韵律，对吧？
There's inflections, and A, B, C, D.
有词形变化，A、B、C、D。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, right.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，没错。
Andrew Huberman: Everyone knows that, right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：每个人都知道，对吧？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: As opposed to just A, B, C, D.
Andrew Huberman：而不只是 A、B、C、D。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Kids don't learn that way.
Andrew Huberman：孩子们不是这样学习的。
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely, and putting things to music, putting things visually, are lots of ways to help you remember.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：当然，将事物放入音乐中，将事物视觉化，是帮助你记住的很多方法。
Andrew Huberman: These days, we hear a lot about the fact that people want short-form content.
Andrew Huberman：如今，我们经常听到人们想要简短的内容。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And yet people, I can attest, listen to long-form podcasts and are still doing that.
Andrew Huberman：然而，我可以证明，人们收听长篇播客并且仍在这样做。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So, I have a theory that's not based on any data that I've seen, that people need a lot of updating of visual information nowadays.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，我有一个理论，该理论并非基于我所见过的任何数据，即人们现在需要大量更新视觉信息。
You know, they're scrolling Instagram, they're scrolling TikTok, they're updating, "Ah, I don't like this YouTube video," switching to another one very fast.
你知道，他们在浏览 Instagram、在浏览 TikTok、在更新，“啊，我不喜欢这个 YouTube 视频”，然后很快切换到另一个视频。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But with audio, long-form, continuous presence of the same voices or voice works.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但是对于音频，相同声音或声音作品的长篇、连续存在。
It's very soothing, and we get into a groove with that.
这非常舒缓，我们对此很熟悉。
And I actually played this game.
而我确实玩过这个游戏。
I decided to just listen to the audio coming through on Instagram Reels, and just flipped them.
我决定只听 Instagram Reels 上传来的音频，然后翻转它们。
Matt Abrahams: Huh.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And by the fifth one, it was incredibly jarring.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：到了第五个，它变得令人难以置信的不和谐。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It's really disruptive.
Andrew Huberman：这确实具有破坏性。
It's like, who are these voices, now these voices?
就像，这些声音是谁？现在这些声音是谁？
But the visuals are very easy to track.
但视觉效果很容易追踪。
Matt Abrahams: Interesting.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：有趣。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman: And so, I think that it's correct that we can really update, and we like the novelty of new visual information, but that audio content needs to spool out over long periods of time, or else it actually is quite aversive to us.
Andrew Huberman：所以，我认为我们确实可以更新，这是正确的，我们喜欢新视觉信息的新颖性，但音频内容需要长时间播放，否则实际上对我们来说是相当反感的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, I heard somebody once say that the difference of all the senses, our auditory sense requires us to slow down more than anything else to actually pay attention, and I think there's something about that slowing down that makes us more engaged with audio.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，我曾经听有人说过，所有感官都是不同的，我们的听觉需要我们放慢速度来真正集中注意力，我认为放慢速度会让我们更加关注音频。
And I think you're right.
我认为你是对的。
I mean, when my teaching has...
我的意思是，当我的教学...
I'm curious if your teaching has had to change.
我很好奇你的教学是否需要改变。
As I teach younger generations of students, I have to change things up so much more frequently.
当我教年轻一代的学生时，我必须更频繁地改变事情。
Somebody who took my class 15 years ago would be, "Oh, my goodness, what are you doing?" But in a two-hour class, I change things up, like, seven times.
15 年前上过我的课的人会说：“哦，天哪，你在做什么？”但在两小时的课程中，我改变了大约七次。
So, we go from a mini lecture to watching a video, to partnering with somebody, just to keep the students engaged because that's where they're at.
因此，我们从小型讲座到观看视频，再到与某人合作，只是为了让学生保持参与，因为这就是他们所处的位置。
They need that switching to help engage.
他们需要这种转变来帮助参与。
Andrew Huberman: Well, I teach medical students neural development and a few other things and I use slides heavily there.
Andrew Huberman：嗯，我教医科学生神经发育和其他一些东西，我在那里大量使用幻灯片。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But what I've realized over the years is that if there's too much information on a slide, they're not going to hear anything I say.
Andrew Huberman：但多年来我意识到，如果幻灯片上的信息太多，他们就不会听到我说的任何内容。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And that if you switch a slide, people, as somebody who studied vision, this makes perfect sense.
Andrew Huberman：如果你换一张幻灯片，作为研究视觉的人，这是完全有道理的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: People will orient towards the new visual information, and they won't hear what you're saying in the transition.
Andrew Huberman：人们会转向新的视觉信息，但在过渡过程中他们不会听到你在说什么。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: The other thing that I'm really obsessed by, because I got my start teaching online on Instagram by doing drawings of different aspects of the nervous system and talking about them, is that there's this sweet spot when you're going to teach something with a visual, I've realized.
Andrew Huberman：我真正着迷的另一件事是，我意识到，当你用视觉来教授一些东西时，有一个最佳点，因为我是通过画神经系统不同方面的图画并谈论它们来开始在 Instagram 上进行在线教学的。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: That, for instance, if I were to draw an area of the brain or a brain circuit accurately with a lot of detailed information, it's too much.
Andrew Huberman：例如，如果我要用大量详细信息准确地绘制大脑的一个区域或大脑回路，那就太多了。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: There's less learning in that case, as opposed to sparser representation of the key elements.
Andrew Huberman：在这种情况下，学习的内容较少，而不是关键元素的稀疏表示。
But if I go to ball and stick model and just triangles and circles, it doesn't work as well.
但是，如果我使用球和棒模型以及三角形和圆形，则效果不佳。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So, there's this sweet spot where there's just enough detail, but not too much, where people can hear what you're saying, see the labels, see the stuff, and it gets imprinted in their brain.
Andrew Huberman：所以，有一个最佳点，即有足够的细节，但又不过多，人们可以听到你在说什么，看到标签，看到东西，然后它就会印在他们的大脑中。
Matt Abrahams: Mm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And when you look back historically, I'm obsessed with the history of medicine and the history of teaching medicine.
安德鲁·休伯曼：当你回顾历史时，我对医学史和医学教学史着迷。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: When you look at the diagrams that have really propagated through time in the field of medicine, they're extremely sparse.
Andrew Huberman：当你看一下医学领域中真正随时间传播的图表时，它们非常稀疏。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: They accurately represent just a few elements of, say, the immune system, and they're not the little bubble diagrams, like, "I'm a macrophage," "I'm a glial cell." Like, uh-uh.
Andrew Huberman：它们准确地代表了免疫系统等的几个要素，而且它们不是小气泡图，例如“我是巨噬细胞”，“我是神经胶质细胞”。就像，呃呃。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Like, those little cartoons don't work, at least in the long run, nor does showing all the detail that's there.
安德鲁·休伯曼：就像，那些小漫画不起作用，至少从长远来看，也没有展示其中的所有细节。
Matt Abrahams: Right, right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对，对。
Andrew Huberman: And you're just like, whoa, that's just like drinking from a fire hose.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你就像，哇，这就像从消防水带里喝水一样。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And so, the really good teachers and anatomists were able to just give the appropriate dose of information and not any more.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以，真正优秀的老师和解剖学家能够只提供适当剂量的信息，而不是更多。
Kind of like a great chef would just have, like, not over-spice something, and it's not easy.
有点像一个伟大的厨师不会在某些东西上加太多香料，这并不容易。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: No.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：不。
Andrew Huberman: And you sort of have to be the teacher and the student at the same time to be able to do this.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你必须同时成为老师和学生才能做到这一点。
Matt Abrahams: Well, I think you're hitting on what's an essential element of any effective communication, which is really understanding your audience and their needs.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯，我认为你抓住了任何有效沟通的基本要素，那就是真正理解你的受众和他们的需求。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: You know, so many of us define success in communication as just getting the information out.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：你知道，我们很多人将沟通的成功定义为只是将信息传达出去。
"I'm successful because what I had in mind is now out."
“我成功了，因为我的想法现在已经实现了。”
Andrew Huberman: I've made that mistake many times.
Andrew Huberman：我多次犯过这样的错误。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, right.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，没错。
It's more about what do I need to say so that my audience understands it better?
更多的是我需要说什么才能让我的听众更好地理解？
It's not about what I want, it's about what you need.
这不是我想要什么，而是你需要什么。
So I have to do reconnaissance, reflection, and research to really think about how best to craft my message, be it a drawing or an important point I'm trying to make through my words.
因此，我必须进行勘察、反思和研究，以真正思考如何最好地传达我的信息，无论是绘画还是我试图通过文字表达的重要观点。
You really have to think about your audience, and most people don't.
你确实必须考虑你的观众，而大多数人却没有。
Most people are just so worried about getting the content out, they don't think about how it lands.
大多数人只是担心内容的发布，而没有考虑内容如何落地。
Matt Abrahams: Success is if your audience takes what you've said, and they're able to do something with it and understand it.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：成功是指你的听众接受了你所说的内容，并且他们能够用它做一些事情并理解它。
You know, the F word of all communication is fidelity.
你知道，所有沟通的最重要的一句话就是忠诚。
It's about accuracy and clarity of transmitting ideas, and if you're not in sync with what your audience needs, then you're in trouble.
这关系到传达想法的准确性和清晰度，如果您与受众的需求不同步，那么您就会遇到麻烦。
Most of us create one message and just deliver it to multiple audiences, and think we've been successful because we got it out.
我们大多数人都会创建一条消息，然后将其传递给多个受众，并认为我们已经成功了，因为我们把它传达了出来。
That's the wrong way to think about it.
这是错误的思考方式。
Andrew Huberman: So, if you're willing, could we just take a couple of minutes and explore some of the tools and practices and then go back to some of the theory, and then back to the tools and practices?
Andrew Huberman：那么，如果您愿意，我们可以花几分钟时间探索一些工具和实践，然后回到一些理论，然后再回到工具和实践吗？
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：当然。
Andrew Huberman: I love this exercise you said of, like, I'll point to the mug, and I'll just try not to judge myself, and I'll say bulldog, because that just is kind of like where, you know...
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我喜欢你说的这个练习，比如，我会指着杯子，我会尽量不评判自己，我会说斗牛犬，因为这有点像，你知道......
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, .
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，。
Andrew Huberman: I'm like Bart Simpson doing the Rorschach test.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我就像巴特·辛普森做罗夏墨迹测验。
Butterfinger, Butterfinger.
黄油指，黄油指。
Like, bulldog, bulldog, bulldog.
就像，斗牛犬，斗牛犬，斗牛犬。
But what is that exercise good for, and when could and should somebody apply it on their own or with other people?
但这种练习有什么好处？什么时候可以并且应该有人自己或与其他人一起应用它？
Matt Abrahams: That's an exercise that I use for two reasons.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我使用这个练习有两个原因。
I use it to show that we have a tremendous amount of judgment that we make when we communicate.
我用它来表明我们在沟通时会做出大量的判断。
Because if you ask somebody, "Why is it so hard to call something something it's not?" They'll say, "Well, that's not what I'm used to," or, "I want it to be better than something else I was thinking." The other thing that I use it for is to help elucidate how we heuristically think in these challenging situations.
因为如果你问某人：“为什么说某件事不是某件事这么难？”他们会说，“嗯，这不是我习惯的，”或者，“我希望它比我想到的其他东西更好。”我用它的另一件事是帮助阐明我们在这些具有挑战性的情况下如何启发式思考。
Matt Abrahams: So invariably, when I do this in my class, I'll say, "Were you using any tools to help you figure out what to say?" And people say, "Yeah, I went in the category of colors," or in your case, the category of species of dog.
马特·亚伯拉罕：所以，当我在课堂上这样做时，我总是会说，“你是否使用过任何工具来帮助你弄清楚该说什么？”人们说，“是的，我进入了颜色类别”，或者在你的例子中，进入了狗的种类类别。
These are heuristics.
这些都是启发式的。
Our brain is trying to help us, and heuristics are very important.
我们的大脑正在努力帮助我们，启发法非常重要。
If we didn't have them, we wouldn't be able to make decisions.
如果没有它们，我们就无法做出决定。
But sometimes a heuristic locks you into a way of thinking.
但有时启发式方法会让你陷入一种思维方式。
Matt Abrahams: So, let's imagine you and I come out of a meeting, and you turn to me, and you say, "Hey, Matt, how do you think that meeting went?" I immediately say, "Andrew wants feedback," and I can itemize all the things that went wrong or all the things we could have done better.
马特·亚伯拉罕：那么，让我们想象一下，你和我在一次会议结束后，你转向我，说：“嘿，马特，你认为会议进行得怎么样？”我立即说，“安德鲁想要反馈”，我可以逐项列出所有出错的事情或所有我们可以做得更好的事情。
But had I been really listening, not locked into that heuristic of feedback, I might have noticed that you were looking down.
但如果我真的在听，而不是陷入启发式的反馈中，我可能会注意到你正在往下看。
You were speaking more slowly and softly than usual.
你说话比平时更慢、更轻。
Andrew Huberman: Mm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Maybe what you wanted in that moment was not feedback, but what you wanted was support because you knew the meeting went bad.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：也许那一刻你想要的不是反馈，而是支持，因为你知道会议进展得很糟糕。
So, if I lock into a heuristic too soon and not understand that I locked into that heuristic, I might take our communication in a direction that isn't productive or could be harmful.
因此，如果我过早地陷入启发式，并且不明白我陷入了这种启发式，我可能会将我们的沟通引向没有成效或可能有害的方向。
The situation I just described to you actually happened to me with a colleague, and I itemized all the things that we did wrong.
我刚才给大家描述的情况，其实是我和一个同事发生的，我把我们做错的事情都一一列举了。
It took me six months to repair that relationship because he didn't want to hear what went wrong.
我花了六个月的时间来修复这段关系，因为他不想听到出了什么问题。
He knew.
他知道。
He wanted me to give some support in that moment.
他希望我在那一刻给予一些支持。
So, that exercise is to help us understand that we do a lot of judging that we don't need to do, and that we have these heuristics or patterns that we get into that don't allow us to be present and respond to what's needed.
所以，这个练习是为了帮助我们理解，我们做了很多不需要做的判断，并且我们所陷入的这些启发法或模式不允许我们在场并响应需要的事情。
Andrew Huberman: Could you define heuristic?
Andrew Huberman：您能定义启发式吗？
I believe I know what it means.
我相信我知道这意味着什么。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, so...
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，所以……
Andrew Huberman: So it sounds like...
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以听起来……
You mentioned heuristic and pattern as kind of synonymous, but maybe just define it for people.
您提到启发式和模式是同义词，但也许只是为人们定义它。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: So to me, a heuristic is a tool that we use, often unconsciously, to help us reduce the uncertainty in a particular situation.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以对我来说，启发式是我们经常无意识地使用的一种工具，可以帮助我们减少特定情况下的不确定性。
So, for example, imagine I'm in the grocery store, and I'm trying to pick out the best tomato sauce or the best ketchup.
例如，假设我在杂货店，我正在尝试挑选最好的番茄酱或最好的番茄酱。
I might use a heuristic of which is the cheapest.
我可能会使用最便宜的启发式方法。
How many offerings from one brand are there?
一个品牌有多少种产品？
That must be the best brand to buy.
那一定是最好买的品牌了。
So, these are mental shortcuts that we use to help us in uncertain situations.
所以，这些是我们在不确定的情况下用来帮助我们的心理捷径。
Andrew Huberman: I'm recalling a story where, when I was a junior professor, meaning before I had tenure, my first graduate student, who's now a phenomenal professor in her own lab at the University of Utah, excuse me, we were in my office.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：我回想起一个故事，当我还是一名初级教授时，也就是说在我获得终身教职之前，我的第一个研究生，现在是犹他大学她自己的实验室的一位杰出教授，请原谅，我们在我的办公室里。
And we were talking about something related to her first manuscript.
我们正在谈论与她的第一篇手稿相关的事情。
And I went on this long description of what we would need to do with the analysis, and this and that, and she sat very quietly, and then she said to me, "Could you be more specific?" And I thought, "Oh, my goodness, I just spoke for five minutes," and I think what she's asking is, "What in the world are you saying?"
我继续长篇大论地描述我们需要做什么分析，以及这个和那个，她非常安静地坐着，然后她对我说：“你能说得更具体一些吗？”我想，“哦，天哪，我才讲了五分钟，”我想她问的是，“你到底在说什么？”
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Which is probably what she was asking.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这可能就是她想问的。
She's probably going to chuckle when she hears this.
听到这话，她大概会笑吧。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And she had this amazing way of asking questions like that.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：她提出这样的问题的方式很神奇。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: She would say, for instance, "Tell me more."
安德鲁·胡伯曼：例如，她会说，“告诉我更多。”
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Or "What exactly do you want me to do for these experiments in the next couple of weeks?"
Andrew Huberman：或者“你到底希望我在接下来的几周内为这些实验做什么？”
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And then she'd usually tell me a better idea, as all great graduate students do.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：然后她通常会告诉我一个更好的想法，就像所有优秀的研究生所做的那样。
But I feel like that's a bit of this.
但我觉得这就是一点点。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: It's that I was coming to it from the perspective of, kind of a fluency of this sort of expectation that we both were on the same page, and we weren't.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：我是从这样的角度来看待这个问题的，即我们都在同一页面上的这种期望的流畅性，但我们没有。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Not because I was the professor and she was the student.
安德鲁·休伯曼：不是因为我是教授而她是学生。
Actually, she was closer to the data than I was because she collected the data.
事实上，她比我更接近数据，因为她收集了数据。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But that's the sort of interaction that one-on-one you can catch, and you can course-correct.
Andrew Huberman：但这就是你可以捕捉到的一对一互动，并且可以纠正方向。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But in public speaking, oftentimes people just get off stage, and they either realize it went poorly or they get feedback that it went poorly.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但在公开演讲中，人们常常刚下台，他们要么意识到演讲很糟糕，要么得到反馈说演讲很糟糕。
My postdoc advisor once said, "If you get questions after a talk, it means you did well."
我的博士后导师曾经说过：“如果你在演讲后提出问题，那就意味着你做得很好。”
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, absolutely.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，绝对是。
Andrew Huberman: "If you don't, it means they just want to get rid of you and have you go off stage."
安德鲁·休伯曼：“如果你不这样做，那就意味着他们只是想摆脱你并让你离开舞台。”
Matt Abrahams: Right, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：对，是的。
Andrew Huberman: So now, when I get questions after a talk, I'm like, "Okay, excellent." Like, that means you engaged people.
Andrew Huberman：所以现在，当我在演讲后收到问题时，我会说，“好吧，太棒了。”就像，这意味着你吸引了人们。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: They have questions.
安德鲁·休伯曼：他们有问题。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So, take note of that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，请注意这一点。
If people have questions, it's very likely you bull's-eyed it.
如果人们有疑问，很可能是你看错了。
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely, and you're highlighting that if we get into our heads, we're not able to assess what's going on in the moment.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：当然，你强调的是，如果我们陷入困境，我们就无法评估当下正在发生的事情。
A lot of communication is responding, and so I need to be present enough to see how my audience is responding.
很多沟通都是在回应，所以我需要足够多的时间来观察我的听众的反应。
Are they looking confused?
他们看起来很困惑吗？
Do they look upset?
他们看起来很沮丧吗？
Then I can adjust and adapt.
然后我就可以调整和适应。
So, we have to be in that moment enough to be present, so we can respond, and the preparation work we do in advance helps us be better prepared.
所以，我们必须在那个时刻有足够的时间在场，这样我们才能做出反应，而我们提前做的准备工作可以帮助我们做好更好的准备。
Matt Abrahams: Now, I would argue that in the example you just gave with your former graduate student, part of the issue that I think she might have been having is when you relayed the information, it was just a list or litany of things, and our brains aren't very good at remembering lists.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：现在，我想说，在你刚刚给你的前研究生的例子中，我认为她可能遇到的部分问题是，当你传达信息时，这只是一个列表或一连串的事情，而我们的大脑不太擅长记住列表。
I mean, I always will joke with my students, "When you go to the grocery store, how many items do you need to buy before you have to write something down?" For me, it's three.
我的意思是，我总是会和我的学生开玩笑，“当你去杂货店时，你需要买多少东西才能写下来？”对我来说，是三个。
I just can't remember much in lists.
我只是记不清列表中的太多内容。
Matt Abrahams: If you provide a structure to the information, it makes it much easier.
Matt Abrahams：如果你为信息提供一个结构，它就会变得容易得多。
It increases processing ability.
它增加了处理能力。
So, a structure is nothing more than a logical connection of ideas.
因此，结构只不过是思想的逻辑连接。
Everybody listening has seen structure.
每个听的人都看到了结构。
If you've ever watched a television ad, most ads are in the structure of problem, solution, benefit.
如果您曾经看过电视广告，大多数广告的结构都是问题、解决方案、利益。
There's some issue or challenge in the world, the product or service makes it better, and you benefit in some way.
世界上存在一些问题或挑战，产品或服务使其变得更好，您会以某种方式受益。
That's a structure.
那是一个结构。
There's a logical connection.
这是有逻辑联系的。
It's like a story.
这就像一个故事。
It's a beginning, middle, and an end, and our brains are wired for that.
这是一个开始、中间和结束，我们的大脑为此而生。
We understand story better than just a random list of things.
我们比随机列出的事物更能理解故事。
I'll joke with my students, bullets kill, don't put a lot of bullet points on a slide because you're not helping yourself.
我会和我的学生开玩笑，子弹杀人，不要在幻灯片上放很多要点，因为你没有帮助自己。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: So, in that interaction you had with your graduate student, I wonder if she would've understood it better had you structured the information in a way that's logical.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，在您与研究生的互动中，我想知道如果您以合乎逻辑的方式构建信息，她是否会更好地理解。
A great structure for that might have been three questions: What?
一个很好的结构可能是三个问题：什么？
So what?
所以呢？
Now what?
现在怎么办？
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Here's what I want you to do, here's why it's important, here's the next steps to help you accomplish it.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：这就是我希望您做的事情，这就是它的重要性，这是帮助您实现这一目标的后续步骤。
All of a sudden, it becomes easier for me to digest and understand.
突然间，我变得更容易消化和理解了。
So, structure is critical to helping get messages across.
因此，结构对于帮助传达信息至关重要。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, across those first five years of having my lab, I learned that the best way to interact with students in post-docs, the most effective way, was to have them stand at the whiteboard in my office and write things down as we talked about a project.
Andrew Huberman：是的，在建立实验室的头五年里，我了解到与博士后学生互动的最佳方式、最有效的方式，就是让他们站在我办公室的白板前，在我们谈论项目时写下内容。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And the things they would write down, we would eventually cross some things out, maybe make some edits, but those were the, as we call the do outs, that they were going to take to the next phase of experiments.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：他们会写下的东西，我们最终会划掉一些东西，也许会进行一些编辑，但这些就是我们所说的“做的事情”，他们将把它们带入下一阶段的实验。
Matt Abrahams: Uh-huh.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: By putting them in control of what the critical information was, they could also stop me and say, "What would happen here?"
安德鲁·胡伯曼：通过让他们控制关键信息，他们还可以阻止我说：“这里会发生什么？”
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: So, that's a very dynamic interaction.
Andrew Huberman：所以，这是一种非常动态的互动。
It's not a typical lecture-type interaction, but I've found that that works really well in other types of situations, too.
这不是典型的讲座式互动，但我发现这在其他类型的情况下也非常有效。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Where the person can take notes, can ask questions about things that were unclear, but where I get a strong sense of what their takeaway was and also where I fell short or perhaps, in rare cases, succeeded in communicating what I was trying to communicate.
Andrew Huberman：人们可以做笔记，可以就不清楚的事情提出问题，但我可以强烈地意识到他们的收获是什么，以及我的不足之处，或者在极少数情况下，成功地传达了我想要传达的内容。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, right.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，没错。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
I love that you are taking the time to have those interactions, where you get feedback in real time, and there are things you can build into more formal or bigger types of communication situations.
我喜欢你花时间进行这些互动，你可以实时获得反馈，并且有些东西可以构建到更正式或更大规模的沟通情境中。
I can take polls.
我可以进行民意调查。
I can have people partner or pair with each other and share some information back.
我可以让人们互相合作或结对，并分享一些信息。
There are virtual tools that allow you to do lots of things.
有一些虚拟工具可以让您做很多事情。
People can give you reactions as you're communicating.
当你交流时，人们可以给你反应。
There are ways to get feedback in real time that allow you to adjust and adapt.
有多种方法可以获得实时反馈，以便您进行调整和适应。
But one, you have to build in those opportunities in the structure, and two, you have to be present enough to pay attention to what's going on.
但第一，你必须在结构中建立这些机会，第二，你必须有足够的时间关注正在发生的事情。
Andrew Huberman: Do you recommend people tape themselves giving lectures and then review those videos?
Andrew Huberman：您是否建议人们录制自己演讲的视频，然后回顾这些视频？
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：当然。
I make all of my students, as part of the work that they do, they have...
我让我所有的学生，作为他们所做工作的一部分，他们......
Anytime they do a public presentation, it could be a panel simulation, a meeting simulation, a speech, they digitally record themselves, and they have to watch it three times: once with sound only, no video; once with video only, no sound; and then once both together.
任何时候他们做公开演讲，可能是小组模拟，会议模拟，演讲，他们自己进行数字录音，他们必须看三遍：一次只有声音，没有视频；一次只有声音，没有视频；第三次只有声音，没有视频。一次只有视频，没有声音；然后两者在一起一次。
And anybody who does this will notice different things, both positive and negative.
任何这样做的人都会注意到不同的事情，包括积极的和消极的。
I tell everybody, "It's like going to the dentist.
我告诉大家，“这就像去看牙医。
Nobody likes going, but everybody's really glad they've been," because you see so much, and you learn, and I know many great communication teachers.
没有人喜欢去，但每个人都很高兴他们去过，”因为你看到了很多，你学到了很多，而且我认识很多优秀的沟通老师。
The best teacher is watching yourself communicate.
最好的老师就是观察自己的沟通。
I assume you've watched yourself.
我想你已经观察过自己了。
Have you learned things when you watch what you see?
当你观看所见所闻时，你学到了东西吗？
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, well, yeah, I will listen to podcasts with guests, and I do listen to solos to try and see where I can improve.
Andrew Huberman：是的，嗯，是的，我会和嘉宾一起听播客，我也会听独奏来尝试看看我可以改进的地方。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: I have one or two people who I seek feedback from and I have always done my best to implement that feedback.
Andrew Huberman：我会向一两个人寻求反馈，并且我一直尽力落实这些反馈。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, I'm not going to share what some of the things were because some of it was subtle, and I never would've observed in myself, and then turned out to be very useful.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，我不会分享其中的一些内容，因为其中一些内容很微妙，我自己永远不会观察到，然后结果证明它们非常有用。
Matt Abrahams: Sure.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：当然。
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman: When I think of effective communication on stage or in a podcast or in any form really, I feel like it's really about getting outside the self-judgment.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：当我想到舞台上、播客或任何形式的有效沟通时，我觉得这实际上是为了摆脱自我判断。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And at the same time, you have to be connected to your audience.
安德鲁·休伯曼：同时，你必须与观众保持联系。
I mean, and this is especially difficult on podcasts, where it's a solo podcast, I'm talking to a camera, but I just imagine it's an audience, like a classroom.
我的意思是，这在播客上尤其困难，因为这是一个单独的播客，我正在对着摄像机说话，但我只是想象这是一个观众，就像一间教室。
Matt Abrahams: That's right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：没错。
Andrew Huberman: And yet hands aren't going up, at least not then.
Andrew Huberman：然而，人们并没有举手，至少当时没有。
They go up when we post it, and you see the comments and critiques from time to time as well.
当我们发布它时，它们就会上升，你也会时不时地看到评论和批评。
And those are very useful.
这些非常有用。
I mean, coming from the landscape of teaching in the classroom, large lectures, small lectures, and doing peer-reviewed science, you get a very thick skin.
我的意思是，从课堂教学、大型讲座、小型讲座以及进行同行评审的科学来看，你的脸皮很厚。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And yet nothing quite prepares you for being public-facing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：然而，没有什么能让你做好面对公众的准备。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And now, everybody's public-facing unless they block their comments section.
Andrew Huberman：现在，每个人都面向公众，除非他们屏蔽评论部分。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, everybody out there, the mom posting the cake she made for her kids, and the kid posting the birthday party photo, that everybody's public-facing now.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，每个人，妈妈张贴她为孩子们做的蛋糕，孩子张贴生日派对照片，现在每个人都面向公众。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And so I think it gives people a thicker skin, but I think for a lot of people, it can be damaging for them.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以我认为它让人脸皮更厚，但我认为对很多人来说，这可能会对他们造成伤害。
Matt Abrahams: I like, though, that you are taking the time to reflect and seek feedback.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：不过，我喜欢你花时间反思并寻求反馈。
I often say the only way you get better at communication is three things: repetition, reflection, and feedback.
我经常说，提高沟通能力的唯一方法是三件事：重复、反思和反馈。
You've got to practice.
你必须练习。
Nobody has ever thought their way to better communication.
没有人想过如何更好地沟通。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: You have to do it.
马特·亚伯拉罕：你必须这么做。
You have to reflect.
你必须反思。
You know that definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results?
你知道疯狂的定义吗，一遍又一遍地做同样的事情，却期待不同的结果？
That's how many people communicate.
很多人都是这样交流的。
Matt Abrahams: Every night before I go to bed, I spend one minute writing down what went well and what didn't go well in my communication that day, and every Sunday, I spend five minutes going back over the previous week, and I make a plan for the following week.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：每天晚上睡觉前，我都会花一分钟写下当天沟通中哪些进展顺利，哪些进展不顺利，每个周日，我都会花五分钟回顾上周的情况，并制定下周的计划。
I'm not saying I'm a great communicator, but I certainly believe I'm a better communicator because I've been doing that practice for years.
我并不是说我是一个出色的沟通者，但我当然相信我是一个更好的沟通者，因为我多年来一直在这样做。
Andrew Huberman: You do that every week?
Andrew Huberman：你每周都这样做吗？
Every day, every day-
每一天，每一天——
Matt Abrahams: Every day, every day.
马特·亚伯拉罕：每一天，每一天。
I have a journal.
我有一本日记。
I write down one or two things that I thought went well, and one or two things I thought didn't go well, and then I pick one on a Sunday, I review them, and it has helped me.
我写下一两件我认为进展顺利的事情，以及一两件我认为进展不顺利的事情，然后我在周日挑选一件，我回顾它们，这对我很有帮助。
And then the final step in that is feedback.
最后一步是反馈。
You have to have trusted others who can give you honest feedback.
您必须信任能够给您诚实反馈的其他人。
But yeah, that reflection practice I've been doing for a long time.
但是，是的，我已经做了很长时间的反思练习。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: How long?
安德鲁·休伯曼：需要多长时间？
Matt Abrahams: Probably...
马特·亚伯拉罕：可能……
I think it was after my kids were, so probably at least 15, 16 years.
我想那是在我的孩子们出生之后，所以可能至少 15、16 年了。
Andrew Huberman: Awesome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Well, this is why you're a Stanford professor.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯，这就是你成为斯坦福大学教授的原因。
This is one of the great pleasures of being at Stanford.
这是在斯坦福大学的一大乐趣。
I mean, we're not at Stanford at this moment.
我的意思是，我们现在不在斯坦福大学。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Right.
正确的。
Andrew Huberman: But I have to say, I mean, there are other great universities on the planet, but I love it because everybody who's on the faculty there, and the students, I mean, the students are really the phenoms of the place, let's be honest.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但我不得不说，我的意思是，这个星球上还有其他伟大的大学，但我喜欢它，因为那里的每个教职人员和学生，我的意思是，说实话，学生真的是这个地方的天才。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, oh-
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，哦-
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Is so committed to their craft.
Andrew Huberman：非常专注于他们的技艺。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Also true elsewhere, but since Stanford's the experience I know, it's just so awesome.
Andrew Huberman：在其他地方也是如此，但由于斯坦福大学是我所知道的经历，它真是太棒了。
You teach communication, and you're taking notes on your own communication every day and reviewing at the end of the week.
你教授沟通，你每天都会记录自己的沟通并在周末进行复习。
Matt Abrahams: Correct.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：正确。
Andrew Huberman: Fantastic.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
Yeah, I think feedback is great.
是的，我认为反馈很棒。
I think that being a selective filter for feedback is great.
我认为作为反馈的选择性过滤器很棒。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman: I do like to listen to other lectures.
Andrew Huberman：我确实喜欢听其他讲座。
I listen to a lot of lectures that perhaps other people would find boring based on content or delivery.
我听了很多讲座，根据内容或授课方式，其他人可能会觉得无聊。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And I learn a lot from people's styles.
Andrew Huberman：我从人们的风格中学到了很多东西。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: You know, it's also interesting to pull from the communication styles of people in really distant genres.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你知道，从非常遥远的流派中借鉴人们的沟通方式也很有趣。
I won't mention some of these, but if you look at different fields of entertainment and communication, some people use more physicality.
我不会提及其中的一些，但如果你看看娱乐和交流的不同领域，有些人会使用更多的身体接触。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Some people are more rigid.
Andrew Huberman：有些人比较刻板。
I think there's a lot to be learned from exploring these other landscapes.
我认为探索这些其他景观可以学到很多东西。
Matt Abrahams: I 100% agree.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我100%同意。
I'm very fortunate that the podcast I host, I get to interview some of the world's best communicators, and it is such a treat to not only engage them in thinking through their craft, but seeing them do it and observe the different ways people do things.
我很幸运，在我主持的播客中，我能够采访一些世界上最优秀的沟通者，这真是一种享受，不仅让他们通过自己的技巧进行思考，而且看到他们这样做并观察人们做事的不同方式。
And it doesn't have to be somebody who's famous or has a whole bunch of notoriety.
而且不一定是名人或臭名昭著的人。
Matt Abrahams: One of my son's kindergarten teachers taught me so much about how to stay calm under pressure, how to monitor and manage and facilitate interaction.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我儿子的一位幼儿园老师教了我很多关于如何在压力下保持冷静、如何监控和管理以及促进互动的知识。
We just have to pay attention to it and be open to it, not so that we copy, but so that we get ideas and we see how people do things.
我们只需要关注它并对它持开放态度，不是为了复制，而是为了获得想法并了解人们是如何做事的。
The way you break down complex biological processes, I find amazing in terms of the accessibility that you bring to it.
我发现你分解复杂生物过程的方式所带来的可访问性令人惊叹。
Matt Abrahams: That's a skill that somebody who is programming, some programmer somewhere, could use to explain to their end users how this works.
Matt Abrahams：这是一项编程技能，可以用来向最终用户解释其工作原理。
We need to borrow and understand what people do.
我们需要借鉴并了解人们的行为。
We get caught up in our own way of doing it, and watching others, I think, is the best way to do it.
我们陷入自己的做事方式中，我认为观察别人是最好的方式。
Andrew Huberman: Long ago, I realized that when there's a certain amount of energy in the body, what we call autonomic arousal or sympathetic tone or whatever, people say fight or flight.
安德鲁·休伯曼：很久以前，我意识到，当体内有一定量的能量时，我们所说的自主唤醒或交感神经张力或其他什么，人们会说“战斗或逃跑”。
But when there's a lot of energy in the body, which is often the case when we're going to give a talk or we're in a novel situation, it doesn't have to be on stage, that allowing oneself to physically move, to walk, to pace, to gesticulate, helps dispel some of that energy and makes it a lot easier to deliver the information than we're to just sit really still and try and funnel all that through one's mouth.
但是，当体内有大量能量时，通常是我们要发表演讲或处于新情况时的情况，不一定非要在舞台上，允许自己身体移动、行走、踱步、打手势，有助于驱散一些能量，并且比我们只是静静地坐着并试图通过嘴传达所有信息更容易传递信息。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：对吗？
When we're calm and relaxed, we can sit back and just move our mouth and our eyes a little bit and our head a little bit.
当我们平静和放松时，我们可以坐下来，稍微移动一下我们的嘴、眼睛和头部。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So I've seen that some of the best public speakers know when to pace, know when to stand rigid, and it may be rehearsed, I don't know, but they're not running against their natural tendency in those moments.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以我看到一些最优秀的公共演讲者知道什么时候要加快脚步，知道什么时候要保持僵硬，而且可能是经过排练的，我不知道，但他们在那些时刻并没有违背自己的自然倾向。
Like, there's this one neuroscientist, he's actually been a guest on this podcast before.
就像，有一位神经科学家，他实际上以前是这个播客的嘉宾。
Andrew Huberman: I won't embarrass him by saying who it is, and he has so much mental vigor and energy, and the first time I saw him give a talk was actually at Harvard Medical School for the 50th anniversary of a foundation.
Andrew Huberman：我不会因为说出他是谁而让他感到尴尬，他精力充沛，精力充沛，我第一次看到他演讲是在哈佛医学院的一个基金会成立 50 周年纪念日。
And he got up there, and he grabbed the microphone, and he gave the talk like this.
他站起来，抓起麦克风，像这样发表演讲。
And I thought to myself, "He's going to eat the microphone.
我心想：“他会吃掉麦克风。
He's going to eat the microphone." And he gave the most spectacular talk, and he was funneling all his energy into that microphone.
他要把麦克风吃掉。”他发表了最精彩的演讲，他将所有的精力都集中到了麦克风上。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And I realized, this guy isn't moving at all, but I thought it was totally reasonable that at some point, he was just going to take a huge chunk out of the thing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我意识到，这个家伙根本没有动，但我认为在某个时候，他只是要从这东西中取出一大块，这是完全合理的。
And of course, he didn't.
当然，他没有。
I thought, "Wow, he brought us all to that one location."
我想，“哇，他把我们都带到了那个地方。”
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Now, clearly, he's a very experienced and skilled communicator.
Andrew Huberman：现在，很明显，他是一位经验丰富且熟练的沟通者。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But he's also an expert in that topic.
Andrew Huberman：但他也是该主题的专家。
And this is the thing that I always would remind my students and postdocs who had some understandable stage fright.
这是我总是提醒我的学生和博士后的事情，他们有一些可以理解的怯场。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: There's no way that you aren't among at least the top three people in the room in terms of the knowledge of what you're talking about.
Andrew Huberman：就您所谈论内容的了解而言，您至少是房间里排名前三的人之一。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：对吗？
Like, probably have the most knowledge, but maybe someone else is an expert there, which can be a little scary.
就像，可能拥有最多的知识，但也许其他人是那里的专家，这可能有点可怕。
Matt Abrahams: Mm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But at least you're then sort of their peer.
Andrew Huberman：但至少你是他们的同辈。
So to remind oneself that in most situations where we're public speaking, you're among the top experts in that.
因此，要提醒自己，在大多数公开演讲的情况下，您都是这方面的顶尖专家。
You've spent the most time with the material, at least compared to the audience.
至少与观众相比，您在材料上花费的时间最多。
Matt Abrahams: Well, and I would add to that often when we're in those situations, the audience actually wants to learn from us.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯，我经常补充一点，当我们处于这种情况时，观众实际上想向我们学习。
They're there because they want to take value from us.
他们在那里是因为他们想从我们身上获取价值。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: They're not there to critique and judge and evaluate, although that can happen.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：他们不是来批评、判断和评估的，尽管这可能会发生。
People don't like watching people fail and flail.
人们不喜欢看到人们失败和失败。
We want to get some value, and if you remind yourself that "I have value to bring," and the audience wants that value, that can reduce some of the temperature of that.
我们想要获得一些价值，如果你提醒自己“我可以带来价值”，并且观众想要这种价值，那就可以降低一些温度。
With regard to movement, I think movement is great.
关于运动，我认为运动很棒。
You just don't want it to be distracting.
你只是不想让它分散你的注意力。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: So there's some rules or ideas around movement.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以关于运动有一些规则或想法。
So move when appropriate during transitions.
因此，在过渡期间适当移动。
You know, stand-up comedians have a rule that they try to follow, is you never want to walk during the punchline.
你知道，单口喜剧演员有一个他们试图遵循的规则，那就是你永远不想在笑点中走动。
You want to land the punchline.
你想要抓住笑点。
All of us, when we communicate, have punchlines.
我们所有人在交流时都会有妙语。
We have things that really, we want to have land.
我们拥有真正想要的土地。
Stand still during that, but as you're doing the setup, move side to side.
在此期间保持静止，但在进行设置时，请左右移动。
When you start, come in and move forward.
当你开始时，进来并继续前进。
Matt Abrahams: So movement can help you with that anxiety, but it also can help your audience understand what's important and what's not important.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以动作可以帮助你缓解焦虑，但它也可以帮助你的观众了解什么是重要的，什么是不重要的。
So if I'm transitioning from one point to the next, and I physically move or I turn my body at the table if I'm seated, that signals information to you that's helpful for you to know we're moving from one place to the next.
因此，如果我从一个点过渡到下一个点，并且如果我坐下来，我会身体移动或在桌子上转动身体，这会向您发出信息，这有助于您知道我们正在从一个地方移动到下一个地方。
So use this need to move in a purposeful way.
因此，利用这种需要，有目的地行动。
Andrew Huberman: I didn't realize that comedians don't deliver the punchline while moving, but now that makes perfect sense.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我没有意识到喜剧演员不会在移动时说出笑点，但现在这是完全有道理的。
Matt Abrahams: Right, because you're distracting your audience.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，因为你分散了观众的注意力。
Even Chris Rock, who moves a lot, will sometimes stop during the punchline.
即使是动作频繁的克里斯·洛克，有时也会在笑点处停下来。
Andrew Huberman: We've known for a long time that there are things that we can do to improve our sleep, and that includes things that we can take, things like magnesium threonate, theanine, chamomile extract, and glycine, along with lesser-known things like saffron and valerian root.
Andrew Huberman：我们很早就知道我们可以采取一些措施来改善睡眠，其中包括我们可以服用的东西，例如苏糖酸镁、茶氨酸、洋甘菊提取物和甘氨酸，以及一些不太为人所知的东西，例如藏红花和缬草根。
These are all clinically supported ingredients that can help you fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up feeling more refreshed.
这些都是经过临床支持的成分，可以帮助您入睡、保持睡眠状态，并且醒来时感觉更加神清气爽。
Andrew Huberman: I'm excited to share that our longtime sponsor, AG1, just created a new product called AGZ, a nightly drink designed to help you get better sleep and have you wake up feeling super refreshed.
Andrew Huberman：我很高兴与大家分享，我们的长期赞助商 AG1 刚刚开发了一款名为 AGZ 的新产品，这是一种夜间饮料，旨在帮助您获得更好的睡眠，让您醒来时感觉神清气爽。
Over the past few years, I've worked with the team at AG1 to help create this new AGZ formula.
在过去的几年里，我与 AG1 的团队合作，帮助创建了这个新的 AGZ 公式。
It has the best sleep-supporting compounds in exactly the right ratios in one easy-to-drink mix.
它在一种易于饮用的混合物中以完全正确的比例含有最好的睡眠支持化合物。
This removes all the complexity of trying to forage the vast landscape of supplements focused on sleep and figuring out the right dosages and which ones to take for you.
这消除了尝试寻找大量针对睡眠的补充剂以及确定正确剂量和适合您服用的补充剂的所有复杂性。
Andrew Huberman: AGZ is, to my knowledge, the most comprehensive sleep supplement on the market.
Andrew Huberman：据我所知，AGZ 是市场上最全面的睡眠补充剂。
I take it 30 to 60 minutes before sleep, it's delicious, by the way, and it dramatically increases both the quality and the depth of my sleep.
我在睡前 30 到 60 分钟服用它，顺便说一句，它很美味，而且它极大地提高了我的睡眠质量和深度。
I know that both from my subjective experience of my sleep and because I track my sleep.
我知道这一点，既来自我对睡眠的主观体验，也因为我跟踪了我的睡眠。
I'm excited for everyone to try this new AGZ formulation and to enjoy the benefits of better sleep.
我很高兴每个人都能尝试这种新的 AGZ 配方并享受更好睡眠的好处。
AGZ is available in chocolate, chocolate mint, and mixed berry flavors, and as I mentioned before, they're all extremely delicious.
AGZ 有巧克力、巧克力薄荷和混合浆果口味，正如我之前提到的，它们都非常美味。
Andrew Huberman: My favorite of the three has to be, I think, chocolate mint, but I really like them all.
Andrew Huberman：我认为这三者中我最喜欢的是巧克力薄荷，但我真的很喜欢它们。
If you'd like to try AGZ, go to drinkagz.com/huberman to get a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AGZ，请访问 Drinkagz.com/huberman 以获得特别优惠。
Again, that's drinkagz.com/huberman.
再说一遍，这是 Drinkagz.com/huberman。
Andrew Huberman: Today's episode is also brought to us by Joovv.
Andrew Huberman：今天的节目也是 Joovv 为我们带来的。
Joovv makes medical-grade red light therapy devices.
Joovv 生产医疗级红光治疗设备。
Now, if there's one thing that I have consistently emphasized on this podcast, it is the incredible impact that light can have on our biology.
现在，如果我在这个播客中一直强调一件事，那就是光对我们的生物学产生的令人难以置信的影响。
Andrew Huberman: Now, in addition to sunlight, red light and near-infrared light sources have been shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of cellular and organ health, including faster muscle recovery, improved skin health and wound healing, improvements in acne, reduced pain and inflammation, even mitochondrial function, and improved vision itself.
Andrew Huberman：现在，除了阳光之外，红光和近红外光源已被证明对改善细胞和器官健康的许多方面具有积极作用，包括更快的肌肉恢复、改善皮肤健康和伤口愈合、改善痤疮、减少疼痛和炎症，甚至线粒体功能和改善视力本身。
Andrew Huberman: What sets Joovv lights apart, and why they're my preferred red light therapy device, is that they use clinically proven wavelengths, meaning specific wavelengths of red light and near-infrared light in combination to trigger the optimal cellular adaptations.
Andrew Huberman：Joovv 灯的与众不同之处以及它们成为我首选的红光治疗设备的原因在于它们使用经过临床验证的波长，这意味着特定波长的红光和近红外光相结合可以触发最佳的细胞适应。
Personally, I use the Joovv whole-body panel about three to four times a week, and I use the Joovv handheld light both at home and when I travel.
就我个人而言，我每周大约使用 Joovv 全身面板三到四次，在家和旅行时我都会使用 Joovv 手持灯。
Right now, Joovv is having their biggest sale of the year.
目前，Joovv 正在进行今年最大的促销活动。
Andrew Huberman: From now through December 1st, 2025, you can save up to $1,000 on select Joovv devices during their Black Friday sale.
Andrew Huberman：从现在到 2025 年 12 月 1 日，在黑色星期五促销期间购买精选 Joovv 设备最多可节省 1,000 美元。
Just go to joovv.com/huberman.
只需访问 joovv.com/huberman。
That's J-O-O-V-V.com/huberman.
那是 J-O-O-V-V.com/huberman。
Some exclusions apply.
一些例外情况适用。
Andrew Huberman: I wonder if you've observed in the classroom that social media and other newer forms of content are changing people's expectations of how engaging something should be, because the on-ramp to social media is a very fast one.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我想知道你是否在课堂上观察到社交媒体和其他新形式的内容正在改变人们对某事物的吸引力的期望，因为社交媒体的入口非常快。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I've never observed anything that brings people to focus so quickly unless it's seeing something really disturbing, which nobody wants to see.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我从来没有观察到任何东西能让人们如此迅速地集中注意力，除非它看到了真正令人不安的东西，而没有人想看到它。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But if you suddenly see two cars crash, you're completely focused on that.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：但是如果你突然看到两辆车相撞，你就会完全集中注意力。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: You're not going to go back to what you were doing.
Andrew Huberman：你不会再回到你正在做的事情了。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But setting aside bad events, traumatic events, social media has an incredibly smooth and fast on-ramp to a focal point, which has got you in the box.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：但是，抛开糟糕的事件、创伤性事件不谈，社交媒体有一个令人难以置信的平稳和快速的通道，可以到达焦点，让你进入禁区。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: A book doesn't typically do that for people.
Andrew Huberman：一本书通常不会为人们做到这一点。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: So what's happening now in terms of what you observe with the audience's expectation of how engaging something needs to be?
安德鲁·休伯曼：那么，根据您观察到的观众对某件事需要有多吸引人的期望，现在发生了什么？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, so I see this play out in a couple ways.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，所以我认为这会以多种方式发生。
One, when you think about a multigenerational workforce or a place where multi-generations are together, people of our vintage, although I'm older than you are, expect relationships and communication to unfold in a certain way.
第一，当你想到多代劳动力或多代聚集的地方时，我们这个年龄段的人，尽管我比你年长，但期望关系和沟通以某种方式展开。
And I think younger generations expect things to be quicker and more transactional.
我认为年轻一代希望事情变得更快、更具交易性。
And when we come together, that can breed misunderstanding and sometimes conflict.
当我们走到一起时，可能会产生误解，有时甚至会产生冲突。
Matt Abrahams: So I see it play out there, and I find it really interesting, and I try to coach the students I have that they have to be appreciative of the ways in which people connect and the ways in which people expect information to come in.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以我看到它在那里发挥作用，我发现它真的很有趣，我尝试指导我的学生，他们必须欣赏人们之间的联系方式以及人们期望信息进入的方式。
You know, if you're just going to keep texting me things, and I actually want you to pick up the phone so I can hear it in your own voice, that's going to cause some issues.
你知道，如果你只是继续给我发短信，而我实际上希望你拿起电话，这样我就能听到你自己的声音，这会引起一些问题。
So we have to appreciate that others have different ways of taking in information.
因此，我们必须认识到其他人有不同的获取信息的方式。
Matt Abrahams: I find that many of the younger students that I communicate with, it's hard for them to do some of the initial work that we have to do in relationship building, trust building just because they expect things and are used to things happening really fast.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我发现与我交流的许多年轻学生，他们很难做我们在建立关系、建立信任方面必须做的一些初步工作，只是因为他们期待事情并习惯事情发生得非常快。
And a lot of communication, a lot of connection, at least at first, takes time.
大量的沟通、大量的联系，至少在一开始，需要时间。
Matt Abrahams: So it's helping people appreciate that the time spent up front can lead to the exciting and in-depth connection that comes later.
马特·亚伯拉罕（Matt Abrahams）：因此，它帮助人们认识到，预先花费的时间可以带来随后令人兴奋和深入的联系。
So it is changing for sure.
所以它肯定正在改变。
Andrew Huberman: I was trying to think before our conversation, what would be the one piece of advice to give people so that they are more at ease with communicating in novel environments, on stage or off stage?
Andrew Huberman：在我们谈话之前，我试图思考，可以给人们什么建议，以便他们在舞台上或舞台下的新环境中更轻松地进行交流？
And what popped to mind for me was to be friendly with people.
我突然想到的是与人友好。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I'm naturally pretty friendly.
Andrew Huberman：我天生就很友好。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Like, if I'm getting a coffee, I'll be like, "How's your day going?"
Andrew Huberman：就像，如果我要喝咖啡，我会问，“你今天过得怎么样？”
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Or like, I will ask that, and I'm genuinely curious, "How's your day going?"
安德鲁·休伯曼：或者，我会问这个问题，我真的很好奇，“你今天过得怎么样？”
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Now, it's rare that somebody says like, "Today sucks." Occasionally, they do.
安德鲁·休伯曼：现在，很少有人说“今天很糟糕”。有时，他们会这样做。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Usually they say, "Oh, it's pretty good."
安德鲁·胡伯曼：通常他们会说，“哦，这很好。”
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Like, "How are you doing?" But in an Uber, for instance, I often find myself in conversation with people.
安德鲁·休伯曼：就像，“你好吗？”但例如，在优步中，我经常发现自己在与人交谈。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Like, conversation is pretty fluid for me.
Andrew Huberman：就像，对话对我来说非常流畅。
I realize for other people it's not.
我意识到对其他人来说并非如此。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: People won't believe this, but I'm actually very introverted.
Andrew Huberman：人们不会相信这一点，但我实际上非常内向。
I spend a lot of time by myself, but I like people, and I'm reasonably friendly, and they're friendly with me.
我花了很多时间独自一人，但我喜欢人们，而且我相当友好，他们对我也很友好。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: So, I think being friendly helps you get good at communication.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，我认为友善可以帮助你善于沟通。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Wouldn't you say?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你不这么认为吗？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
No, absolutely.
不，绝对是。
I mean, my answer to that question would be curiosity.
我的意思是，我对这个问题的回答是好奇。
Andrew Huberman: Mm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Lead with curiosity, ask questions, observe things, point them out.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：以好奇心引导，提出问题，观察事物，指出它们。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Matt Abrahams: You know, a lot of people hate small talk because they don't know how to do it.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：你知道，很多人讨厌闲聊，因为他们不知道该怎么做。
But if you lead with curiosity, if you ask a question and you observe, that's where I think we can make it move forward in a way that's more fluid and more comfortable for people.
但如果你带着好奇心，如果你提出问题并观察，我认为我们可以让它以一种对人们来说更流畅、更舒适的方式向前发展。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: And quite frankly, people are most at ease talking about themselves.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：坦率地说，人们最轻松地谈论自己。
And so if you can get people talking about something that's important to them.
因此，如果你能让人们谈论对他们来说重要的事情。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: And then there's a whole science behind conversation, and people who study conversation look at turn-taking.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：对话背后有一整套科学，研究对话的人会关注轮流对话。
Because if you think about it, conversation is just taking turns.
因为如果你仔细想想，谈话只是轮流进行。
There are turns that are supportive, where you say something, and I support what you say.
有些时候是支持性的，你说一些话，我支持你说的话。
So you might say, "Hey, Matt, I just got back from Maui." And I could say, "Oh, that's great.
所以你可能会说，“嘿，马特，我刚从毛伊岛回来。”我可以说：“哦，那太好了。
Where'd you stay?
你住在哪里？
What did you do?" Or I could say, which is the other type of turn, which is switching, I could say, "Oh, I just got back from Costa Rica." And a good conversation does both.
你做了什么？”或者我可以说，这是另一种类型的转弯，即转换，我可以说，“哦，我刚从哥斯达黎加回来。”良好的对话可以做到这两点。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: So being curious and then managing the switching and supporting turns allow for that conversation not only to develop, but it allows you to get closer and more intimate, if you will, closer in terms of trust-building and the relationship you have.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：因此，保持好奇心，然后管理转换和支持轮流，不仅可以促进对话的发展，而且可以让你们变得更加亲密，如果你愿意的话，在建立信任和建立关系方面更加亲密。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, almost always in Los Angeles, I ask my Uber driver where they're from because oftentimes it seems they have accents and I can't place the accent.
Andrew Huberman：是的，几乎总是在洛杉矶，我问我的 Uber 司机他们来自哪里，因为通常他们似乎有口音，而我无法确定口音。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And almost always, I learn about a great restaurant based on their ethnicity, right?
Andrew Huberman：我几乎总是根据他们的种族来了解一家很棒的餐厅，对吧？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I found what I think is the best Armenian restaurant in Los Angeles as a consequence of a great Uber ride.
Andrew Huberman：通过一次很棒的优步之旅，我找到了我认为是洛杉矶最好的亚美尼亚餐厅。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So yeah, leading with curiosity.
Andrew Huberman：是的，带着好奇心来引导。
I don't say, "Where's the best restaurant?"
我不会说：“最好的餐馆在哪里？”
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: I think it inevitably leads to food, it seems.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我认为这似乎不可避免地会导致食物。
Dogs or food.
狗或食物。
Andrew Huberman: I'm curious about linearity versus non-linearities in storytelling.
Andrew Huberman：我对讲故事中的线性与非线性感到好奇。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: You know, some people have a style where they can spin a lot of plates simultaneously, as I imagine it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你知道，有些人有一种可以同时旋转很多盘子的风格，正如我想象的那样。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: You know, they can start one thread, maybe open up a couple other threads.
Andrew Huberman：你知道，他们可以启动一个线程，也许还可以打开几个其他线程。
Some people have a very linear style.
有些人的风格非常线性。
Some people won't reference things they said earlier.
有些人不会引用他们之前说过的话。
Some people will constantly reference things they said earlier.
有些人会不断引用他们之前说过的话。
I suppose it depends, but in general, if one is trying to communicate information, what's best from the standpoint of people learning the information?
我想这要看情况，但总的来说，如果一个人试图传达信息，从人们学习信息的角度来看，什么是最好的？
Matt Abrahams: So as a teacher, as somebody who's trying to convey information that's important to people, I believe a linear approach that clearly lays out the foundations and builds is probably best to help people really understand.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：因此，作为一名教师，作为一个试图向人们传达重要信息的人，我相信清晰地奠定基础和构建的线性方法可能最能帮助人们真正理解。
Often in educating, you're layering, you're scaffolding, and that leads to a linear approach.
通常在教育中，你是分层的，你是脚手架的，这导致了线性方法。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: That said, the more spurious approach, the approach that has lots of different avenues, can be much more engaging and can also be successful.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：也就是说，更虚假的方法，有很多不同途径的方法，可以更有吸引力，也可以成功。
And it really doesn't have to be either/or.
而且它确实不必是非此即彼。
I think you can have a high-level linear view, that you're taking your audience on that journey, but at different points, you can branch off and share some interesting information.
我认为你可以有一个高层次的线性视图，你正在带领你的观众踏上这段旅程，但在不同的时刻，你可以分支并分享一些有趣的信息。
Matt Abrahams: You know, I see being a good speaker as like being a good tour guide, and I actually was a tour guide at one point in my life.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：你知道，我认为成为一名优秀的演讲者就像成为一名优秀的导游一样，事实上，我一生中曾经是一名导游。
A good tour guide does a really nice job of setting expectations of where you're going.
一个好的导游在设定你要去的地方的期望方面做得非常好。
Most people won't go on a tour if they don't know where they're going.
如果不知道要去哪里，大多数人都不会去旅行。
If I showed up and said, "I'm your tour guide, let's go," you might say, "Eh, I don't know where we're going." But if I say, "Hey, we're going to do this and this, and we're not going to do that," then you can relax and feel comfortable and come with me.
如果我出现并说：“我是你的导游，我们走吧”，你可能会说，“呃，我不知道我们要去哪里。”但如果我说，“嘿，我们要做这个、做这个，我们不会做那个”，那么你就可以放松下来，感到舒服，跟我来。
And I let you know at each point where we're moving to the next place.
我会在每个地点让您知道我们要转移到下一个地点。
Matt Abrahams: But along the way, we can meander, we can wander, we can go check out some things and come back.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：但一路上，我们可以蜿蜒，我们可以徘徊，我们可以去看看一些东西然后回来。
So as long as people have directionality and everything fits as a larger narrative, I think you can play with either of these.
因此，只要人们有方向性并且一切都符合更大的叙述，我认为你可以使用其中任何一个。
But when it comes to strict education, I think we've got good evidence that a linear approach that scaffolds is really what's most helpful.
但当谈到严格的教育时，我认为我们有充分的证据表明，支架式的线性方法确实是最有帮助的。
Andrew Huberman: Do you think that if people want to get better at communication, they should practice being a tour guide?
Andrew Huberman：你认为如果人们想要更好地沟通，他们应该练习当导游吗？
Matt Abrahams: I think adopting that mindset that, "Hey, taking you through my material, I'm like a tour guide." How would a tour guide explain this?
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为要采取这样的心态：“嘿，带你浏览我的材料，我就像一名导游。”导游会如何解释这一点？
They would introduce at the beginning, set expectations.
他们会在一开始就介绍，设定期望。
They'd make sure that you understand why we're moving from one place to the next.
他们会确保您了解我们为什么要从一个地方搬到另一个地方。
And when you're done, they really want you to take something away of value.
当你完成后，他们真的希望你拿走一些有价值的东西。
I mean, most tours end up in the gift shop, right?
我的意思是，大多数旅行最终都会在礼品店结束，对吧？
Your gift to your audience is something they can take away and do something with.
你给观众的礼物是他们可以拿走并做一些事情的东西。
So I think using that analogy, seeing what your job is through that lens, can be really helpful.
所以我认为使用这个类比，通过这个镜头了解你的工作是什么，真的很有帮助。
Andrew Huberman: I'm remembering back to grade school, where we were asked to bring an object that was really important to us, and then kids would get up in front of the classroom.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我记得小学时，我们被要求带一个对我们来说非常重要的物品，然后孩子们会站在教室前面。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: And of course, what a beautiful exercise for kids to partake in, because of course, they know more about that object than anybody.
安德鲁·休伯曼：当然，对于孩子们来说，这是一个多么美妙的练习，因为当然，他们比任何人都更了解这个物体。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But I remember seeing or hearing different styles.
Andrew Huberman：但我记得看到或听到过不同的风格。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Some people would get in there and be like, "This is mine," or whatever.
Andrew Huberman：有些人会进去说，“这是我的”，或者其他什么。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: "My transformer," and they're really out there with it, or "This is my goldfish." I saw a goldfish.
Andrew Huberman：“我的变形金刚”，他们真的很喜欢它，或者“这是我的金鱼。”我看到了一条金鱼。
And then occasionally-- not so occasionally, you get this kid that would say, "Well, this is my pen," and then you're like, "Speak up."
然后偶尔——不是那么偶尔，你会遇到一个孩子，他会说，“好吧，这是我的笔，”然后你就会说，“说出来。”
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And they're just not comfortable sharing their clearly intimate knowledge about this object and why it's important.
Andrew Huberman：他们只是不愿意分享他们对这个物体及其重要性的明显熟悉的知识。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, you can just tell, they're closed up.
Andrew Huberman：我的意思是，你可以看出，他们已经关门了。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And so you tell them to speak louder, and then they'd speak louder.
Andrew Huberman：所以你告诉他们大声说话，然后他们就会大声说话。
But I think that's a lot of people.
但我认为这样的人很多。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Like, they're just not comfortable projecting their thoughts out into the room.
Andrew Huberman：就像，他们只是不愿意将自己的想法投射到房间里。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: What is the, quote-unquote, "solution," or how do we make space for these people?
Andrew Huberman：“解决方案”是什么，或者我们如何为这些人腾出空间？
I'm not saying this for politically correct reasons, but I wholeheartedly believe that these people harbor tons of useful knowledge.
我这么说并不是出于政治正确的原因，但我全心全意地相信这些人拥有大量有用的知识。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Oh, absolutely.
马特·亚伯拉罕：哦，当然。
Andrew Huberman: Maybe they want to get that knowledge out, but maybe that's just not the medium for them.
Andrew Huberman：也许他们想传播这些知识，但也许这不是他们的媒介。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Maybe they write, or maybe they just don't want to share their favorite object.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：也许他们会写，或者也许他们只是不想分享他们最喜欢的东西。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So I'm sure you encounter people like this.
Andrew Huberman：所以我确信你会遇到这样的人。
Matt Abrahams: Oh, absolutely.
马特·亚伯拉罕：哦，当然。
Andrew Huberman: But by virtue of the fact that they're going into a particular job or line of work, they're told they have to get good at speaking to a whole room.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：但由于他们要从事特定的工作或工作，他们被告知必须善于与整个房间交谈。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, and I think that's unfortunate when people say, "You must be better at this." There are lots of ways to communicate, and everybody should find a vehicle in a way that's helpful for them.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，我认为当人们说“你必须在这方面做得更好”时，这是不幸的。沟通的方式有很多种，每个人都应该找到对自己有帮助的方式。
There are some roles that require certain types of communication, and if that isn't something you're comfortable with, maybe you look at a different role.
有些角色需要特定类型的沟通，如果您对此不满意，也许您会考虑其他角色。
But I believe we can all learn and develop our communication skills.
但我相信我们都可以学习和发展我们的沟通技巧。
Matt Abrahams: I've spent much of my career helping people feel more comfortable and confident speaking in front of others, working on anxiety that goes around it, helping people to see that there are lots of ways to communicate.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：我职业生涯的大部分时间都花在帮助人们在别人面前演讲时感到更加自在和自信，努力消除与之相关的焦虑，帮助人们看到有很多沟通方式。
Maybe I don't have to hold this object up and make it about me and my object.
也许我不必举起这个物体并让它成为关于我和我的物体的事情。
Maybe I tell a story about the object, or I tell a story about how I came to have the object.
也许我会讲一个关于该物体的故事，或者我会讲一个关于我如何拥有该物体的故事。
So it's less about me, and it's more about the story.
所以这不是关于我，而是更多关于故事。
Matt Abrahams: If we can get people to distance themselves sometimes from the fear itself and get others engaged, it can work really well.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：如果我们有时能让人们远离恐惧本身并让其他人参与进来，那么效果会非常好。
I coached a very senior leader at a very big company everybody's familiar with, and he was really, really nervous, and as he got promoted, he had larger and larger audiences.
我在一家大家都很熟悉的大公司里辅导过一位非常高级的领导者，他真的非常非常紧张，而且随着他的升职，他的听众也越来越多。
And what he would do, what we worked on doing, in essence, distracting the audience right at the beginning.
他会做什么，我们正在做什么，本质上从一开始就分散了观众的注意力。
He would start by saying, "Let's watch this 30-second video."
他首先会说：“让我们看这个 30 秒的视频。”
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: And then when the video was over, he became a facilitator of what just happened.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：视频结束后，他成为了刚刚发生的事情的推动者。
"So what did you think?
“那你觉得怎么样？
What does this mean?" And he was much more comfortable facilitating interaction than actually being the center of attention.
这是什么意思？”他更愿意促进互动，而不是真正成为关注的焦点。
So there are a lot of things we can do that accomplish the goal of communicating the information, that's not about the spotlight being on me communicating it.
因此，我们可以做很多事情来实现传达信息的目标，而不是让聚光灯集中在我传达信息上。
And I want to share one example of, or take the story about, the kids doing show-and-tell.
我想分享一个孩子们进行展示和讲述的例子，或者说一个关于孩子们的故事。
I used to do that in my undergraduate classes that I taught, but I had a wrinkle on it.
我曾经在我所教的本科生课程中这样做过，但我对此有一些困惑。
Matt Abrahams: I'd have people bring in an object, and they'd have to share it.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我会让人们带来一个物体，他们必须分享它。
I had them use that what, so what, now what structure.
我让他们使用那个什么，那什么，现在什么结构。
And then, I had them tell about an object that they thought about bringing in, but they didn't.
然后，我让他们讲述一个他们想带进来的物品，但他们没有。
So then they had to say what that object was and why they chose not to bring it in, and that was far more illuminating about the person.
因此，他们必须说出那个物体是什么以及为什么他们选择不把它带进来，这对这个人来说更具启发性。
And we talk about authenticity.
我们谈论真实性。
Matt Abrahams: People just emoted in a way that they didn't when they had this thing that, "I've made sure to think about this, and it's going to make me look good, and I've architected my conversation about this one object." But when they talked about the other object, their passion came out, their conversational nature came out.
马特·亚伯拉罕：人们只是以一种他们在拥有这件事时没有的方式表达，“我一定要考虑这个，这会让我看起来很好，而且我已经设计了关于这个物体的对话。”但当他们谈论另一个物体时，他们的热情就出来了，他们的谈话本性就出来了。
It was really illuminating to do that.
这样做确实很有启发。
Andrew Huberman: My graduate advisor told me that she'd much rather give a talk to an entire room full of people or an empty room than to one person.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的研究生导师告诉我，她宁愿对一整个房间或一个空房间进行演讲，也不愿对一个人进行演讲。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It's hard to do it for one person.
Andrew Huberman：一个人很难做到这一点。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I think she's unique in that sense.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我认为她在这个意义上是独一无二的。
I think most people are terrified of giving a talk to a room full of people.
我认为大多数人都害怕在满屋子的人面前演讲。
I still don't know why, but that's not because it's easy for me.
我仍然不知道为什么，但这并不是因为这对我来说很容易。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: I just, I wonder what it is.
Andrew Huberman：我只是，我想知道它是什么。
I mean, you said there's this evolutionary basis for it.
我的意思是，你说它有这个进化基础。
Matt Abrahams: I think it's that.
马特·亚伯拉罕：我想就是这样。
I think the consequences seem more real when you're in front of more people.
我认为当你在更多人面前时，后果看起来更真实。
For me, personally, the group size that's most anxiety-provoking is between 10 or 12.
就我个人而言，最令人焦虑的团体规模是 10 到 12 人之间。
Once you get above 12, 20, or 100,000 people, it becomes, to me, more anonymous.
一旦人数超过 12、20 或 100,000 人，对我来说，就变得更加匿名。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: But it's that 10 to 12 range that's most difficult.
Matt Abrahams：但是 10 到 12 的范围是最困难的。
So, in terms of how you can best practice, vocalizing it is the most important part.
因此，就如何最好地练习而言，发声是最重要的部分。
Andrew Huberman: Say it out loud.
安德鲁·休伯曼：大声说出来。
Matt Abrahams: Say it out loud.
马特·亚伯拉罕：大声说出来。
You know, I'm amazingly eloquent in my mind.
你知道，我的头脑非常雄辩。
I'm not always as lucky when I open up my mouth, so you have to actually say it out loud.
当我张开嘴时，我并不总是那么幸运，所以你必须实际大声说出来。
We make so many assumptions in our minds and connect dots that when we actually speak it, we realize they don't do that.
我们在脑海中做出如此多的假设并将点联系起来，以至于当我们真正说出这些想法时，我们意识到他们并没有这样做。
Recording yourself, obviously, and listening, getting trusted others, you just have to get it out.
显然，给自己录音，然后倾听，获得信任的其他人，你只需要把它说出来。
And this isn't just for big public speaking.
这不仅仅适用于大型公开演讲。
I mean, this is high-stakes interpersonal communication.
我的意思是，这是高风险的人际沟通。
Maybe I want to ask my boss for a raise.
也许我想向老板要求加薪。
Matt Abrahams: Maybe I have to give some feedback to a colleague that's not great.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：也许我必须向同事提供一些不太好的反馈。
I have to practice this stuff, and I have to think about not only what I am going to say, but I also have to anticipate the responses and maybe role-play some of that as well.
我必须练习这些东西，我不仅要考虑我要说什么，而且我还必须预测人们的反应，也许还需要进行一些角色扮演。
You know, athletes do lots of drills, so when they're in the game, they can play it well.
你知道，运动员做了很多训练，所以当他们参加比赛时，他们可以打得很好。
We need to do the same thing.
我们需要做同样的事情。
Matt Abrahams: It amazes me when I work with senior leaders of companies, and they'll say, "Oh, I practiced the presentation once or twice, and I'm ready to go." And I think about a stand-up comedian, how many times they practice their routine over and over again.
马特·亚伯拉罕：当我与公司的高级领导一起工作时，我感到很惊讶，他们会说，“哦，我练习了演示一两次，我已经准备好了。”我想到一个单口喜剧演员，他们一遍又一遍地练习他们的套路有多少次。
How can in just one or two times flipping through the slides you have that content?
怎么可能只翻一两次幻灯片就能看到这些内容呢？
So getting it out, practicing it, getting the reps, absolutely important.
所以把它拿出来，练习它，得到代表，绝对重要。
One person, 10 people, nobody, it needs to be practiced.
一个人，十个人，没有人，都需要练习。
Andrew Huberman: We do think we know how to say something until reality hits us square in the face.
Andrew Huberman：我们确实认为我们知道如何说些什么，直到现实打在我们脸上。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It's almost like if we read a word many, many times, and we think we know how to pronounce it.
Andrew Huberman：这几乎就像我们多次阅读一个单词，并且我们认为我们知道如何发音。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And then at some point, we're required to pronounce it, or we pronounce it incorrectly.
Andrew Huberman：然后在某些时候，我们需要发音，否则我们就会发音错误。
And then we realize we've been essentially pronouncing it in our head incorrectly for a very, very long time.
然后我们意识到，很长一段时间以来，我们脑子里的发音基本上都是错误的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: You and I talked prior, and I shared with you I've done martial arts for a long time.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：你和我之前谈过，我告诉你我练习武术很长时间了。
And when you learn a new move, you learn it in the air, and you can become really great...
当你学习一个新动作时，你可以在空中学习它，你可以变得非常伟大......
You can do that move really well, but then when you meet another person and have to practice that move, that's where reality sets in, and that's exactly what you're talking about.
你可以很好地完成这个动作，但是当你遇到另一个人并且必须练习这个动作时，这就是现实，这正是你所说的。
You have to experience it in reality, in the real world, and then you see where you're really at.
你必须在现实中、在现实世界中体验它，然后你才能看到你真正所处的位置。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
I'm not a martial artist, but years ago, I spent a little time in a boxing gym, and I can tell you, shadow boxing is not the same as getting hit.
我不是武术家，但几年前，我在拳击馆呆过一段时间，我可以告诉你，太极拳与被击中不同。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And the heavy bag doesn't hit back.
Andrew Huberman：沉重的袋子不会反击。
I mean, it has some physical weight to it that's different than shadowboxing, but it's a whole other experience.
我的意思是，它有一些与太极拳不同的物理重量，但这是一种完全不同的体验。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Exactly.
马特·亚伯拉罕：没错。
Andrew Huberman: Like anything.
安德鲁·休伯曼：就像任何事情一样。
Matt Abrahams: It's that feedback.
马特·亚伯拉罕：就是这样的反馈。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I've been really intrigued by the famous choreographer, Twyla Tharp.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我对著名编舞家特怀拉·撒普很感兴趣。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: She's now in her 80s.
Andrew Huberman：她现在已经 80 多岁了。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: She's incredible and has said and written incredible things about choreography.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：她很不可思议，并且在编舞方面说了和写了一些令人难以置信的事情。
And she said that she has this practice where she'll sort of develop a dance routine, then go through it in her head, then because she was a dancer, she can try it.
她说她有这样的练习，她会制定一个舞蹈动作，然后在脑子里过一遍，然后因为她是一名舞者，所以她可以尝试一下。
And then she has people do it, and then imagine it, and then they iterate thousands and thousands and thousands of times before they actually even perform it once in front of a small audience, and not publicly.
然后她让人去做，然后想象，然后他们迭代成千上万次，然后才真正在一小群观众面前表演一次，而不是公开表演。
Andrew Huberman: So it's an incredible thing that we would expect ourselves to be able to get up and communicate information really well without having done that.
Andrew Huberman：因此，我们希望自己能够在没有这样做的情况下站起来并很好地传达信息，这是一件令人难以置信的事情。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: One new world that I think is really interesting with regard to this rehearsal is there's some VR tools now that you can actually don and practice the presentation, and you can see a simulated audience.
Matt Abrahams：我认为这次排练中真正有趣的一个新世界是，现在有了一些 VR 工具，你可以实际佩戴并练习演示，并且可以看到模拟的观众。
And with some of these tools, you can actually program the audience's responses.
通过其中一些工具，您实际上可以对观众的反应进行编程。
You can say they're favorable or they're ignoring you, so you can desensitize yourself, and I think that's a really interesting vehicle for people, especially people who are phobic, to desensitize, to get in the goggles and practice the presentation.
你可以说他们喜欢你，也可以说他们忽视你，这样你就可以让自己变得不敏感，我认为这对于人们，尤其是那些有恐惧症的人来说，是一个非常有趣的工具，可以让他们变得不敏感，戴上护目镜并练习演示。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: And some of them you can actually, if you have slides, you can upload the slides, and you can practice referring to them.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：其中一些实际上是可以的，如果你有幻灯片，你可以上传幻灯片，然后你可以练习参考它们。
So I think it's not only in reality, but in virtual reality, we can practice and prepare, too.
所以我认为不仅是在现实中，在虚拟现实中，我们也可以练习和准备。
Andrew Huberman: Do you think that if somebody wants to get more fluid at presenting information, that they could find a friend who would select an object in the room for them at random, and then they'd have to give a brief improv talk about it or something like that?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你是否认为如果有人想要更流畅地呈现信息，他们可以找一个朋友为他们随机选择房间里的一个物体，然后他们必须就它进行简短的即兴演讲或类似的东西？
Just to get comfortable taking on topics with some level of fluidity.
只是为了能够轻松地处理具有一定流动性的话题。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, I think improvisation is a wonderful way to get better at communicating, because improv isn't about being funny.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，我认为即兴创作是更好地沟通的好方法，因为即兴创作并不是为了搞笑。
Improv is about being in the moment and responding to what's needed.
即兴表演就是活在当下并对需要的事情做出反应。
And so yeah, doing anything like that.
是的，做类似的事情。
You don't even need a friend.
你甚至不需要朋友。
You can just look at an object and start talking about it.
你可以只看一个物体并开始谈论它。
Describe it.
描述一下。
Share a story about it.
分享一个关于它的故事。
All of that could be useful.
所有这些都可能有用。
You could flip open a book and pick a word, and then just talk about what that word means.
你可以翻开一本书并选择一个单词，然后谈论该单词的含义。
Those are some of those agility drills that can help you be better when you're put on the spot, and it builds confidence, too.
这些是一些敏捷性训练，可以帮助你在现场时表现得更好，而且还能建立信心。
Matt Abrahams: It's like, "I can do that.
马特·亚伯拉罕：就像，“我能做到。
If I can do this when I pick a random word, I can do this when somebody asks me a question that I know a lot about the topic on." So it's a way of building confidence and helping with that in-the-moment processing.
如果我能在随机选择一个单词时做到这一点，那么当有人问我一个我对该主题非常了解的问题时我也能做到这一点。”因此，这是一种建立信心并帮助进行即时处理的方法。
Andrew Huberman: I feel like people over the age of 15 are not terribly comfortable embracing these theater-like games because it seems childlike.
Andrew Huberman：我觉得 15 岁以上的人不太愿意接受这些戏剧般的游戏，因为它看起来很孩子气。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But it's actually that childlike level of curiosity and communication that you're seeking when you're going to be an effective communicator.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：但实际上，当你想成为一名有效的沟通者时，你所寻求的就是孩子般的好奇心和沟通水平。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
A class I co-teach at Stanford, through their continuing studies program, is called Improvisationally Speaking.
我在斯坦福大学通过他们的继续学习项目共同教授的一门课程叫做即兴演讲。
I partner with a gentleman named Adam Tobin, who's an excellent improviser, and together I bring the communication piece.
我与一位名叫亚当·托宾（Adam Tobin）的绅士搭档，他是一位出色的即兴演奏家，我一起带来了交流作品。
And it's a way of giving people baby steps and permission to do some of these improv games, because we directly link a particular improv activity to a specific communication need, and when people see that, they open up.
这是一种允许人们进行一些即兴游戏的方式，因为我们直接将特定的即兴活动与特定的沟通需求联系起来，当人们看到这一点时，他们就会敞开心扉。
Matt Abrahams: At Stanford's Graduate School of Business, there are several courses that bring in improvisational ideas into very serious things, how to be a manager and adapt to management skills through improv, how to demonstrate your status and power through some of the things that improv teaches.
Matt Abrahams：在斯坦福大学商学院，有几门课程将即兴的想法带入非常严肃的事情中，如何成为一名经理并通过即兴发挥来适应管理技能，如何通过即兴教授的一些东西来展示你的地位和权力。
So taking improv, or at least understanding some of those principles, certainly can help.
因此，即兴发挥，或者至少理解其中一些原则，肯定会有所帮助。
Andrew Huberman: When I think about the truly archival, important information on the internet, very few things break through.
Andrew Huberman：当我思考互联网上真正的档案、重要信息时，很少有什么东西能够突破。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I sometimes play this game.
Andrew Huberman：我有时会玩这个游戏。
I think, "What is true legacy content on the internet?" And one of the things that breaks through is Steve Jobs' 2015, I think it was, commencement speech at Stanford.
我想，“互联网上真正的遗留内容是什么？”其中一件具有突破性的事情是史蒂夫·乔布斯 (Steve Jobs) 在 2015 年斯坦福大学的毕业典礼演讲，我认为是这样。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: The "I Have a Dream" speech, obviously, by Martin Luther King.
安德鲁·休伯曼：显然，马丁·路德·金的“我有一个梦想”演讲。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: JFK said some pretty important things.
安德鲁·休伯曼：肯尼迪说了一些非常重要的事情。
Matt Abrahams: Yes, yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: Those were written speeches.
安德鲁·休伯曼：那些是书面演讲。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And they're reading from a script, and they include a story in many cases.
安德鲁·休伯曼：他们正在阅读剧本，并且在很多情况下都包含一个故事。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So it fits, and yet in the Jobs speech, which I've listened to many times, he's reading from a piece of paper.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以这很合适，但在我听过很多次的乔布斯演讲中，他是在读一张纸。
So it runs counter to a lot of what we're talking about, and yet, it's extremely effective communication.
所以它与我们谈论的很多内容背道而驰，然而，这是非常有效的沟通。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Why do you think those examples, let's just say JFK, Martin Luther King, Steve Jobs...
安德鲁·休伯曼：你为什么会想到这些例子，比如说肯尼迪、马丁·路德·金、史蒂夫·乔布斯……
I should probably include a few others, but those are the ones that come to mind.
我可能应该包括其他一些，但这些是我想到的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Why do you think those are, at least, among the most effective incidents of great communication that linger in people's minds?
安德鲁·休伯曼：为什么你认为这些至少是在人们脑海中挥之不去的最有效的良好沟通事件之一？
Matt Abrahams: Well, there are several factors.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯，有几个因素。
One, I think, is that they're incredibly well-written.
我认为，其一是它们写得非常好。
They are poetic.
他们很有诗意。
They are aspirational.
他们是有抱负的。
They use rhetorical flourishes that make them memorable, repetition, alliteration, things like that.
他们使用令人难忘的华丽修辞、重复、头韵等等。
They also are in a context and in a time when those messages were really important and needed, and though they echo, they connect at a level of what's going on in the zeitgeist of the moment.
它们也处于这些信息非常重要和需要的背景和时代，尽管它们有所呼应，但它们在当前时代精神的层面上产生了联系。
Matt Abrahams: JFK's moonshot speech, Martin Luther King's civil rights speech.
马特·亚伯拉罕：肯尼迪的登月演讲，马丁·路德·金的民权演讲。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Steve Jobs's "I would argue what was going on in the economy and the environment at that time." That message really resonated.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：史蒂夫·乔布斯的“我会争论当时的经济和环境发生了什么。”这则消息确实引起了共鸣。
So I think it's a match of context and timing.
所以我认为这是背景和时机的匹配。
It's a match of really important ideas presented in a really important way with specific rhetorical flourishes that really make them memorable.
这是以非常重要的方式呈现的非常重要的想法与真正令人难忘的特定修辞的结合。
Matt Abrahams: And I think also the character that those people brought to it also makes a difference as well.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为这些人带来的性格也产生了影响。
I think other people could say those words and not have the same impact.
我认为其他人可能会说这些话，但不会产生同样的影响。
Andrew Huberman: I'm having a hard time coming up with a memory from the last 5 to 10 years of really important public communication moments.
Andrew Huberman：我很难回忆起过去 5 到 10 年中真正重要的公共沟通时刻。
I can remember certain things happening that were televised and online, but those were more things that happened.
我记得电视和网上发生的某些事情，但发生的事情更多。
Matt Abrahams: I think we're getting noisier.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为我们变得越来越吵闹。
Not I think, I know we're getting noisier.
我想不是，我知道我们变得越来越吵闹。
There are more messages out there.
还有更多消息。
Even in the case of Steve Jobs, which was the most recent in the example you gave, things weren't as noisy.
即使就史蒂夫·乔布斯（Steve Jobs）而言（您给出的例子中最近的一个），事情也没有那么吵闹。
It wasn't as crowded, right?
那里没那么拥挤，对吧？
And so I think it's hard to hear those phrases or those speeches in these environments where there's so much noise going on.
因此，我认为在噪音如此之大的环境中很难听到这些短语或演讲。
Andrew Huberman: Certainly, when we observe traumatic events, those are flashbulb memories.
安德鲁·休伯曼：当然，当我们观察创伤事件时，这些都是闪光灯记忆。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: I remember the shuttle disaster.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我记得航天飞机灾难。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Certainly 9/11.
安德鲁·休伯曼：当然是 9/11。
I think the most salient recent one would be the assassination, excuse me, of Charlie Kirk.
对不起，我认为最近最突出的事件是查理·柯克的暗杀事件。
You know, everyone knew about that.
你知道，每个人都知道这一点。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And it was on video.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这是在视频中。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：对吗？
It's such a different thing for people to see a grainy video versus a high-definition video, which is what we see now.
人们看到颗粒状视频与我们现在看到的高清视频是完全不同的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: So that in some sense, it creates this different threshold for what's memorable.
Andrew Huberman：所以从某种意义上说，它为令人难忘的事情创造了不同的门槛。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And those are all tragic events.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这些都是悲剧事件。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: JFK's assassination, it's this grainy video, and somebody shot at a distance, and very few things get in the domain of not tragic, not traumatic get a big signal-to-noise that really lasts long.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：肯尼迪遇刺事件，这是一段颗粒状的视频，有人在远处拍摄，很少有事情能在不悲剧、不创伤的范围内获得真正持续很长时间的大信噪比。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: I think that's true, and I think people...
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为这是真的，而且我认为人们......
That we don't have the...
原来我们没有...
People who aren't referring to the same channels, so people are getting the information differently as well.
人们引用的渠道不同，因此获取信息的方式也不同。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: And that's also dividing our attention, so we're not seeing these things really bubble up.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：这也分散了我们的注意力，所以我们没有看到这些事情真正出现。
But I do think it's also a commentary on where we're at as a society as well.
但我确实认为这也是对我们社会现状的评论。
I think it would be lovely if we heard more and more positive speeches that resonate with people that we're citing and quoting years from now.
我认为，如果我们能听到越来越多的积极的演讲，这些演讲能与我们今后不断引用的人们产生共鸣，那就太好了。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I think about this a lot.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我想了很多。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I think about the non-bad events that get a big signal with noise.
Andrew Huberman：我想到的是那些在噪音中产生大信号的非坏事件。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And there are...
安德鲁·休伯曼：还有……
None that come to mind right now.
目前没有想到。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Forgive me, folks, if I'm missing some recent thing where some puppy did a super cute thing, but there are so many millions of those videos that I think we've become saturated.
安德鲁·休伯曼：请原谅我，伙计们，如果我错过了最近一些小狗做了一件超级可爱的事情的事情，但这些视频有数百万个，我认为我们已经饱和了。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It's like the information equivalent of highly processed food.
Andrew Huberman：这就像高度加工食品的信息等价物。
Like, our senses have been dulled.
就像，我们的感官已经迟钝了。
Matt Abrahams: I think there's some truth in that, and I also think we're moving away from traditional oration as it used to be done, right?
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为这有一定道理，而且我也认为我们正在摆脱过去的传统演讲方式，对吧？
There just aren't forums for that.
只是没有相关的论坛。
You can watch some TED Talks.
你可以观看一些 TED 演讲。
There are some amazing TED Talks out there and other talks of that caliber.
有一些精彩的 TED 演讲以及其他类似级别的演讲。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: But I don't know that any have risen to the level that you're referring to.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：但我不知道有没有达到你所说的水平。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I think Brené Brown's TED Talk on vulnerability is one of the ones that I think is really legacy.
Andrew Huberman：是的，我认为 Brené Brown 关于脆弱性的 TED 演讲是我认为真正值得传承的演讲之一。
Matt Abrahams: Mm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Most people younger than 18 probably haven't heard it, but anyway, we'll put a link to it.
Andrew Huberman：大多数 18 岁以下的人可能没有听说过，但无论如何，我们都会放一个链接。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And then there are a bunch of other really great TED Talks as well.
Andrew Huberman：还有很多其他非常精彩的 TED 演讲。
You have an amazing TED Talk.
你有一场精彩的 TED 演讲。
Matt Abrahams: Well, thank you.
马特·亚伯拉罕：好的，谢谢。
Andrew Huberman: I saw one talk online with 24 million views.
Andrew Huberman：我在网上看到一场演讲，观看次数达 2400 万次。
It's not a trivial number of views.
这可不是小数目。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And it was an hour-long conversation about effective communication.
Andrew Huberman：这是一个关于有效沟通的长达一个小时的对话。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So clearly, people care about effective communication.
Andrew Huberman：很明显，人们关心有效的沟通。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Do you think that people being good at one-on-one conversation makes them better at on-stage conversation, or do you think these are two completely different skills?
Andrew Huberman：你认为擅长一对一对话的人是否会在舞台上的对话中表现得更好，或者你认为这是两种完全不同的技能？
Matt Abrahams: I get this question a lot.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我经常被问到这个问题。
I think there's a Venn diagram.
我认为有一个维恩图。
There are people who are able to connect one-on-one in a way that's hard to do on a stage.
有些人能够以一种在舞台上很难做到的方式进行一对一的交流。
A lot of it has to do with what academics call immediacy.
其中很大一部分与学术界所说的即时性有关。
I'm present with you, I'm focused.
我在你身边，我很专注。
We're engaged in that way, and that doesn't necessarily translate on a big stage or in a meeting.
我们以这种方式参与，但这并不一定会在大舞台或会议上体现出来。
But some of the skills do translate.
但有些技能确实可以转化。
Matt Abrahams: It's having structure, having focus in terms of a goal for what you're saying, being able to start in a way that's compelling.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：它有结构，有重点在你所说的目标上，能够以一种令人信服的方式开始。
So it's a Venn diagram, and there are people who can command a presence on a stage, and you put them in front of one person, and they don't know how to respond.
所以这是一个维恩图，有些人可以在舞台上占据一席之地，当你把他们放在一个人面前时，他们不知道如何回应。
So in terms of messaging, I think there's a lot of overlap.
因此，就消息传递而言，我认为存在很多重叠之处。
In terms of presence, I think it really varies a lot.
就存在感而言，我认为确实有很大差异。
But I believe everybody can learn to be better at communication.
但我相信每个人都可以学会更好地沟通。
Matt Abrahams: I wouldn't do what I do if I didn't believe that.
马特·亚伯拉罕：如果我不相信这一点，我就不会做我所做的事情。
So if you are good interpersonally but not so good in front of a large group, use the skills you have.
因此，如果您善于人际交往，但在一大群人面前表现不佳，请利用您拥有的技能。
Find a path to hone and develop those skills in a different environment.
找到一条在不同环境中磨练和发展这些技能的途径。
And similarly, if you're good on a big stage, let's take what you do there and find avenues to help you interpersonally.
同样，如果您擅长在大舞台上表演，那么我们就以您在那里所做的事情为基础，找到在人际交往方面为您提供帮助的途径。
But they're not always the same, and there are some people who are good at both.
但它们并不总是相同的，并且有些人两者都擅长。
Andrew Huberman: I'm excited to share that Mateína, the yerba mate drink I helped create, is now available at Whole Foods stores nationwide.
Andrew Huberman：我很高兴与大家分享，我帮助创造的马黛茶饮料 Mateína 现已在全国 Whole Foods 商店出售。
Longtime listeners of this podcast know that yerba mate is my preferred caffeine source.
这个播客的长期听众都知道马黛茶是我最喜欢的咖啡因来源。
It provides smooth energy without giving you the jitters, and it has a lot of other potential benefits, including helping to regulate your blood sugar, improving digestion, mild appetite suppression, and much more.
它提供平稳的能量，不会让您感到紧张，而且它还有很多其他潜在的好处，包括帮助调节血糖、改善消化、轻度抑制食欲等等。
Mateína is my absolute favorite of all the yerba mate brands out there, and I've tried them all.
在所有马黛茶品牌中，Mateína 绝对是我最喜欢的，而且我都尝试过。
Andrew Huberman: Given my love for Mateína, I decided to become a part-owner in the business, and I helped them create their new line of products, which are all entirely zero-sugar.
Andrew Huberman：鉴于我对 Mateína 的热爱，我决定成为该公司的股东，并帮助他们创建了完全零糖的新产品系列。
These zero-sugar cold brew Mateína flavors are fantastic.
这些零糖冷萃咖啡 Mateína 口味非常棒。
I drink at least three cans of them every single day.
我每天至少喝三罐。
You'll often see them on the table during my podcast recordings.
在我录制播客时，您经常会在桌子上看到它们。
I absolutely love the product, and I'm proud to now have it sold at Whole Foods.
我非常喜欢这个产品，我很自豪现在它在全食超市出售。
So check out Mateína at Whole Foods stores nationwide.
因此，请前往全国 Whole Foods 商店购买 Mateína。
It's cold-brewed with the absolute best ingredients.
它是用绝对最好的原料冷酿的。
It has zero sugar, and it tastes amazing.
它是零糖的，而且味道棒极了。
And if you don't have a Whole Foods near you, you can also buy it online at drinkmateina.com.
如果您附近没有 Whole Foods，您也可以在 Drinkmateina.com 上在线购买。
Andrew Huberman: These days, we hear quite often about neurotypical and neuroatypical.
Andrew Huberman：如今，我们经常听到有关神经典型和神经非典型的说法。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And I do think there's a distinct difference in the conversational style, the amount of prosody.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我确实认为对话风格和韵律数量存在明显差异。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I don't want to say affect, because I have some close friends who are neuroatypical, and they tell me, and I believe them, that they have every bit as much emotion underneath their voice as somebody who's, like, really sharing that emotion in these inflections of voice, and their bodily movements.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我不想说情感，因为我有一些神经非典型的亲密朋友，他们告诉我，我相信他们，他们的声音背后隐藏着与那些在声音的变化和身体动作中真正分享这种情感的人一样多的情感。
Matt Abrahams: Hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Do you think that we need to adjust our kind of concept of what effective communication is, based on this, what seems to be an expansion of, at least, the understanding of neurotypical and neuroatypical?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你认为我们是否需要调整我们关于有效沟通的概念，在此基础上，至少是对神经典型和神经非典型的理解的扩展？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, I certainly don't mean to conflate neurodiversity, and introversion, and extroversion.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，我当然不想将神经多样性、内向和外向混为一谈。
But the question you're asking to me is, I hear it as a similar way, is "Is there one right way to communicate or one better way, and people who don't communicate that way, are they at a disadvantage?"
但你问我的问题是，我听到的是类似的方式，是“是否有一种正确的沟通方式或更好的方式，而那些不以这种方式沟通的人，他们是否处于劣势？”
Matt Abrahams: I think there are expectations for what effective communication is.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为人们对什么是有效沟通有期望。
But I think we can expand it, and there is value for people regardless of if it's neurodiversity or introversion, for example.
但我认为我们可以扩展它，并且无论它是神经多样性还是内向性，对人们来说都是有价值的。
Extroversion tends to get rewarded just because you hear it, you see it.
外向的人往往会因为听到、看到而获得奖励。
But I think there are things that we can learn from people who are neurodiverse that can help to really connect and be better communicators.
但我认为我们可以从神经多元化的人身上学到一些东西，这些东西可以帮助我们真正建立联系并成为更好的沟通者。
Matt Abrahams: So too, in the way that folks who are highly introverted communicate can help.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：高度内向的人的沟通方式也能提供帮助。
There is certainly no one right way to communicate.
当然，没有一种正确的沟通方式。
There are better ways and worst ways, and regardless of where you are in terms of introversion, extroversion, or neurodiversity, you can communicate effectively.
有更好的方法和最差的方法，无论你处于内向、外向或神经多样性方面，你都可以有效地沟通。
Play to your strengths.
发挥你的优势。
There are things that introverts do that are amazing, that really help move communication forward.
内向的人会做一些令人惊奇的事情，它们确实有助于促进沟通。
People with certain types of neurodiversity, in terms of the creativity or the level of detail with which they communicate, can be really helpful.
具有某些类型的神经多样性的人，无论是在创造力还是沟通的细节程度方面，都非常有帮助。
We just have to find those advantages and lean into them to help.
我们只需要找到这些优势并利用它们来提供帮助。
Andrew Huberman: I find that when it comes to podcast guests, if somebody wrote a book at some point, they tend to be pretty comfortable podcasting,
安德鲁·休伯曼：我发现，当谈到播客嘉宾时，如果有人在某个时候写了一本书，他们往往会很舒服地播客，
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: independent of whether they've been on a lot of podcasts before.
Andrew Huberman：与他们之前是否上过很多播客无关。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Which raises the question: Is the practice of writing out one's thoughts, by hand or typing them out, an effective way to prepare to speak or just get better at speaking generally?
安德鲁·休伯曼：这就提出了一个问题：用手或打字写下自己的想法的做法是准备演讲还是只是提高一般演讲水平的有效方法吗？
And I do understand that eventually, if you want to get better at push-ups, you've got to do push-ups.
我确实明白，如果你想在俯卧撑方面做得更好，你就必须做俯卧撑。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: If you want to get speaking, you have to speak.
安德鲁·休伯曼：如果你想发言，你就必须发言。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But do you think writing and transferring ideas onto paper helps people become better communicators?
安德鲁·休伯曼：但是你认为将想法写在纸上并转移到纸上有助于人们成为更好的沟通者吗？
Matt Abrahams: Short answer is yes, but I think it's a two-part process.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：简短的回答是肯定的，但我认为这是一个由两部分组成的过程。
The first part is the thought process that goes into what you're going to write.
第一部分是你要写的内容的思考过程。
Having written some books, I know you're writing a book; you think differently about your content.
写过一些书后，我知道你正在写一本书；你对你的内容有不同的看法。
You have to think about the audience.
你必须考虑观众。
You have to think about, "How do these pieces fit together?
你必须思考，“这些部分如何组合在一起？
Is there a scaffolding that's needed?" So, it's the thought process that helps.
需要脚手架吗？”所以，思维过程是有帮助的。
Matt Abrahams: But then the actual putting pen to paper, fingers on keyboards, when you have to make word choice, when you have to think about the syntax, the grammar.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：但是当你实际用笔写在纸上，手指放在键盘上，当你必须选择单词时，当你必须考虑句法、语法时。
You are more intimately involved with your content than you are when you're just thinking about the ideas.
与仅仅思考想法时相比，您会更密切地参与内容。
So, I think at both levels, it's helping you hone your message.
所以，我认为在这两个层面上，它都可以帮助你完善你的信息。
Matt Abrahams: I'm a very nervous writer.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我是一个非常紧张的作家。
I'm not a very nervous speaker.
我不是一个很紧张的演讲者。
I am very nervous about what I write.
我对自己写的东西感到非常紧张。
But I'm a better editor than I am writer, and that editing process really trains your brain to be ready to respond to questions, to focus on information.
但我是一个比作家更好的编辑，编辑过程确实训练你的大脑准备好回答问题，专注于信息。
And so, I think each of those steps, the ideation, the actual crafting, and then the editing, prepares you to communicate better.
因此，我认为每一个步骤，从构思、实际制作到编辑，都能让你为更好地沟通做好准备。
And all of us can use different parts of those.
我们所有人都可以使用其中的不同部分。
You don't have to write a book to be able to use those skills to speak better.
您不必写一本书就能够使用这些技能来更好地说话。
Andrew Huberman: I used to prepare my scientific talks by building the slides.
Andrew Huberman：我过去常常通过制作幻灯片来准备我的科学演讲。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman: And I required that there be nothing else going on in the room, because in my head, I'm thinking about what I'm going to say as I build the slides.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我要求房间里不能有其他事情发生，因为在我制作幻灯片时，我的脑海里正在思考我要说的内容。
So, the building of the slides oneself, including sometimes the illustrations, et cetera, was an important part of preparing the talk.
因此，自己制作幻灯片（有时包括插图等）是准备演讲的重要部分。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: I find that if I can just cut and paste figures, it's much worse.
Andrew Huberman：我发现如果我只能剪切和粘贴数字，情况会更糟。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, I call it a "Franken-deck." People accumulate different slides and slam them all together, like Frankenstein was an amalgamation.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，我称之为“弗兰肯套牌”。人们积累不同的幻灯片并将它们猛烈地撞击在一起，就像弗兰肯斯坦是一个融合体一样。
There's no story there.
那里没有故事。
There's no thought process that ties it all together.
没有任何思维过程将所有这些联系在一起。
So, the slide was the manifestation of your thought process.
所以，幻灯片是你思维过程的体现。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: And that's why I think it was so useful to you.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：这就是为什么我认为它对你如此有用。
Andrew Huberman: Can I share a story?
安德鲁·休伯曼：我可以分享一个故事吗？
Matt Abrahams: Sure.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：当然。
Andrew Huberman: You're the guest, but I really want your thoughts on this.
Andrew Huberman：你是客人，但我真的想听听你对此的看法。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: We have a colleague at Stanford.
Andrew Huberman：我们在斯坦福大学有一位同事。
His name escapes me, forgive me, but years ago, we were "Pew Fellows," which was this group where you-
我忘记了他的名字，请原谅我，但几年前，我们是“皮尤研究员”，在这个组织里，你——
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, congratulations.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，恭喜。
Andrew Huberman: Thank you.
安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I still don't know how it happened for me, but it happened.
Andrew Huberman：我仍然不知道这件事是如何发生在我身上的，但它确实发生了。
Anyway, we had to give our talks the fourth year.
无论如何，我们必须在第四年进行会谈。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And talk about being in a room full of people where you're like, "Whoa!" "There's some serious..." So, people from all around the country, and, you know, it's not just neuroscience.
Andrew Huberman：谈论一下当你在一个挤满人的房间里时，你会说“哇！” “有一些严重的......”所以，来自全国各地的人们，而且，你知道，这不仅仅是神经科学。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And so, you know, you're humbled to be there.
Andrew Huberman：所以，你知道，你很荣幸能来到这里。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I don't care how good you are; many people in the room are going to be better than you.
Andrew Huberman：我不在乎你有多优秀；我不在乎你有多优秀。房间里的很多人都会比你更好。
Matt Abrahams: Mm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: There's this one guy.
安德鲁·休伯曼：有这么一个人。
He's now a faculty member at Stanford.
他现在是斯坦福大学的一名教员。
And for his talk, he got up there, and he said, "Rather than show you a bunch of data, I'm going to play you a movie and a song."
在演讲中，他站起来说道：“我不会向你展示一堆数据，而是给你播放一部电影和一首歌。”
Matt Abrahams: Hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And he put up this video of these oil droplets bumping into one another, and the sound or the song corresponded to the oil droplets bumping into one another.
安德鲁·休伯曼：他发布了这些油滴相互碰撞的视频，声音或歌曲对应于油滴相互碰撞。
And my first thought was, "This guy's crazy." Like, he's legitimately crazy, or he just kind of doesn't care.
我的第一个想法是：“这家伙疯了。”就像，他确实疯了，或者他只是不在乎。
Matt Abrahams: Hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And this is pretty cool.
Andrew Huberman：这非常酷。
But then he went on to give a talk about how he was using sound in order to develop novel molecules.
但随后他继续讲述了他如何利用声音来开发新型分子。
He went on to win a MacArthur Genius Award.
他后来赢得了麦克阿瑟天才奖。
He's built $1 microscopes and centrifuges that they're using in Africa to diagnose diseases in areas that have very little funding.
他花费 1 美元建造了显微镜和离心机，在非洲用于诊断资金匮乏地区的疾病。
He's one of those.
他就是其中之一。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman: And I remember thinking, like, "Wow!
安德鲁·休伯曼：我记得我当时想，“哇！
This guy is incredible."
这家伙太不可思议了。”
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Just spectacular levels of communication ability.
Andrew Huberman：沟通能力非常出色。
I think he actually is a genius.
我认为他实际上是一个天才。
Matt Abrahams: Hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: You know, these Genius Awards, it's kind of a funny name, right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你知道，这些天才奖的名字有点有趣，对吧？
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And I realized-
安德鲁·休伯曼：我意识到-
Matt Abrahams: I wouldn't know, no I never got one.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我不知道，不，我从来没有得到过。
Andrew Huberman: What's that?
安德鲁·休伯曼： 那是什么？
Matt Abrahams: I never got one.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我从来没有得到过。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, me either.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我也是。
Matt Abrahams: Not yet.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：还没有。
Yeah, so.
是的，所以。
Andrew Huberman: And I think some people that get them are geniuses, and I think some are not, frankly, you know.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我认为有些人是天才，坦率地说，我认为有些人不是天才。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But that talk was really...
安德鲁·胡伯曼：但那次谈话真的......
It wasn't just humbling, it was really eye-opening for me.
这不仅让我感到谦卑，还让我大开眼界。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Because it made me realize that if somebody has true command of the material, and they believe in their own unique vision enough, that you really can use something as what seems as vague as a bunch of oil droplets bumping into one...
安德鲁·休伯曼：因为它让我意识到，如果有人真正掌握了材料，并且他们足够相信自己独特的愿景，那么你真的可以使用一些看起来模糊的东西，就像一堆油滴撞到一个......
I mean, it was pretty, but it looked like a lava lamp, frankly, and some music.
我的意思是，它很漂亮，但坦白说，它看起来像一盏熔岩灯，还有一些音乐。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But it was the perfect bring-around because it was such a high signal-to-noise.
Andrew Huberman：但它是完美的，因为它的信噪比非常高。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And hats off to him.
Andrew Huberman：向他致敬。
He's amazing.
他太棒了。
If people try to do that, and it doesn't work, it fails spectacularly.
如果人们试图这样做，但没有成功，那就是彻底的失败。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: If it works, it succeeds spectacularly.
Andrew Huberman：如果它有效，它就会取得巨大成功。
So, do you think there's something to...
那么，你认为有什么可以...
You know, whether or not we should stay conventional, or we should try hooks like that?
你知道，我们是否应该保持传统，或者我们应该尝试这样的钩子？
I never once thought I should do something like that when giving a talk.
我从来没有想过在演讲时我应该做这样的事情。
But it was...
但那是...
I mean, you can probably tell by the way I'm relaying the story.
我的意思是，你可能可以从我讲述故事的方式中看出。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It still sits in my body as one of the more fantastic experiences in my entire academic career.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：它仍然存在于我的身体里，是我整个学术生涯中最美妙的经历之一。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So, like, that was incredible, and I'll never forget it.
Andrew Huberman：所以，这太不可思议了，我永远不会忘记它。
Matt Abrahams: I think what that particular talk did, is it violated expectations.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为那个特别的演讲的作用是不是违反了预期。
And in so doing, it made it stand out.
这样一来，它就脱颖而出了。
Should people test boundaries and push things in communication?
人们应该测试界限并推动沟通吗？
I think they should.
我认为他们应该。
But I think we need to be a little thoughtful about that, and perhaps A/B test them, run them by some other people.
但我认为我们需要对此深思熟虑，也许可以对它们进行 A/B 测试，并由其他人运行它们。
Say, "I'm thinking of doing this.
说：“我正在考虑这样做。
What do you think?" And make sure that the risk you're taking is calculated.
你觉得怎么样？”并确保您所承担的风险经过计算。
Matt Abrahams: I have this conversation all the time with my students, and the people I coach around humor.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我一直与我的学生以及我辅导的人围绕幽默进行这样的对话。
Now, I'm not saying telling a joke is similar to your experience, but it involves risk, and if it works, humor is an amazing way to connect.
现在，我并不是说讲笑话与您的经历相似，但它涉及风险，如果有效，幽默是一种令人惊奇的联系方式。
But if it fails, it's a great way to disconnect.
但如果失败了，这是断开连接的好方法。
So, you have to think it through.
所以，你必须考虑清楚。
You have to understand the costs and the benefits, and I think test it out on a few people, and then see what happens.
你必须了解成本和收益，我认为在几个人身上进行测试，然后看看会发生什么。
Matt Abrahams: It sounds like this person not only had violated expectations, but they were able to give you a visceral experience of what it was that they were studying.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：听起来这个人不仅违反了预期，而且还能够让你对他们正在研究的内容有一种发自内心的体验。
So, it wasn't just a concept, which many of these...
所以，这不仅仅是一个概念，其中许多......
You and I both attend lots of academic talks.
你和我都参加了很多学术讲座。
I mean, it can get very theoretical, very conceptual, but made it very tangible.
我的意思是，它可以变得非常理论化、非常概念化，但又变得非常具体。
And because of that, that was helpful to the goal that they were trying to achieve.
正因为如此，这对他们试图实现的目标很有帮助。
Matt Abrahams: So, I often challenge people: How could you communicate this information in a way that really gets people engaged and involved?
马特·亚伯拉罕：所以，我经常挑战人们：如何才能以真正让人们参与和参与的方式传达这些信息？
Could you do something on a whiteboard?
你能在白板上做点什么吗？
Could you use an analogy?
你能用一个比喻吗？
Is there a story you could tell or a question you can ask, rather than just detailing the information?
您是否可以讲述一个故事或可以提出一个问题，而不仅仅是详细说明信息？
So, do something that violates an expectation, but it's in line with, and supports the goal that you have.
因此，做一些违反期望的事情，但它符合并支持你的目标。
Andrew Huberman: Do you think that some introspection about who one is, is helpful?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你认为对自己是谁进行一些反省有帮助吗？
You know, I couldn't give that talk.
你知道，我不能发表这样的演讲。
Even if I had half the knowledge, I couldn't give that talk.
即使我有一半的知识，我也无法发表这样的演讲。
I can give the talk that I give.
我可以发表我的演讲。
And sometimes I wonder whether even if a talk is very dry, it works because the person is dry.
有时我想，即使演讲很枯燥，是否也能奏效，因为这个人很枯燥。
Matt Abrahams: Hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Or if somebody is more theatrical, it works because the person is theatrical outside of the talk.
安德鲁·休伯曼：或者如果某人比较戏剧化，那么它会起作用，因为这个人在演讲之外也很戏剧化。
This kind of brings us back to authenticity.
这让我们回到了真实性。
Matt Abrahams: Hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Sometimes I wonder if people just need to figure out who they are and how they process information in the world, and just try and share that.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：有时我想知道人们是否只需要弄清楚他们是谁以及他们如何处理世界上的信息，然后尝试分享这些信息。
The same way that a musician would share their song or an artist would share their visual art, or some other form of art, because that's the filter that they experience the world through.
就像音乐家分享他们的歌曲或艺术家分享他们的视觉艺术或其他形式的艺术一样，因为这是他们体验世界的过滤器。
I mean, I think a lot of times we want to hear things because we want to access these other portals that we can't get to.
我的意思是，我想很多时候我们想听到一些事情是因为我们想访问我们无法访问的其他门户。
Matt Abrahams: I think understanding what works for you and where your strengths are, is absolutely important, but at the same time, you don't know where some of those strengths are if you don't try other things.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为了解什么对你有用以及你的优势在哪里绝对重要，但与此同时，如果你不尝试其他事情，你就不知道其中一些优势在哪里。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: And that's why, coming back to this notion of improv as that one example, you don't know until you do it, where your comfort levels are and where those boundaries are.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：这就是为什么，回到即兴创作的概念作为一个例子，在你这样做之前你不知道你的舒适度在哪里以及那些界限在哪里。
And you might learn that there are some things you can do really well, that would help you be a better communicator.
您可能会发现有些事情您可以做得很好，这将帮助您成为更好的沟通者。
So, absolutely investigating what works for you, and leveraging that is important, but also expand a little bit to see where you can grow.
因此，绝对调查什么对你有用，并利用它很重要，但也要扩展一点，看看你可以在哪里成长。
Matt Abrahams: I think the work you do, the work I try to do in terms of podcasting, and writing, and teaching, we're trying to expose people to more information that they could then adapt and adopt, so that they can perhaps expand the way they communicate, they research, whatever it is.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为你所做的工作，我在播客、写作和教学方面所做的工作，我们试图让人们接触更多的信息，然后他们可以适应和采用这些信息，这样他们也许可以扩展他们交流、研究的方式，无论是什么。
So, I think you do have to absolutely play to your strengths, but you have to explore what those strengths might be as well.
所以，我认为你确实必须充分发挥自己的优势，但你也必须探索这些优势可能是什么。
I'd hate for everybody just to do only what they're good at.
我讨厌每个人都只做他们擅长的事情。
Andrew Huberman: Can we talk about damage control?
Andrew Huberman：我们能谈谈损害控制吗？
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I do think having coached students and postdocs through public speaking and having seen one complete meltdown-
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我确实认为，通过公开演讲指导学生和博士后，并目睹了一场彻底的崩溃——
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman: This person's now a professor.
Andrew Huberman：这个人现在是一名教授。
He's doing incredible work.
他正在做令人难以置信的工作。
He went on to get a job and everything, but during a practice talk, in front of a small number of people, it was, like, total meltdown.
后来他找到了一份工作等等，但在一次练习演讲中，在少数人面前，他完全崩溃了。
Total meltdown, no recovery, we had to just delay and do it another time, despite-
彻底崩溃，无法恢复，我们不得不推迟并再次进行，尽管-
Matt Abrahams: So, he literally just stopped talking and walked off the-
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，他真的停止说话并走开了——
Andrew Huberman: He froze, and he apologized, and then we said, "No, it's fine."
安德鲁·胡伯曼：他愣住了，他道歉了，然后我们说，“不，没关系。”
Matt Abrahams: Okay.
马特·亚伯拉罕：好的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, it was a small venue, and then we tried to encourage him along, and maybe he hadn't slept well.
Andrew Huberman：我的意思是，那是一个小场地，然后我们试图鼓励他，也许他睡得不好。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: He had a lot going on.
安德鲁·休伯曼：他发生了很多事情。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Right.
正确的。
Andrew Huberman: But it ended with him sitting on the side of the stage, asking everyone to please leave.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但最后他坐在舞台一侧，要求大家离开。
Matt Abrahams: Oh, okay.
马特·亚伯拉罕：哦，好吧。
Andrew Huberman: So, it was heavy.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，它很重。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: It was heavy, and it was very important for us to all get back in the room again.
Andrew Huberman：这很重，对我们来说再次回到房间非常重要。
Andrew Huberman: And he did that, and then he went on the job market, and he got a position, and he's a tenured faculty member someplace now.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：他做到了，然后他进入了就业市场，他得到了一个职位，现在他是某个地方的终身教员。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Great.
马特·亚伯拉罕：太棒了。
Andrew Huberman: He recovered himself as...
安德鲁·胡伯曼：他恢复了自己……
You know, we all have bad days, but I think hearing that, some people are probably like, "Oh, my goodness!"
你知道，我们都有糟糕的日子，但我想听到这个消息，有些人可能会说，“哦，天哪！”
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: What to do if one does forget what they're trying to say on stage?
Andrew Huberman：如果有人忘记了他们在舞台上想说的话怎么办？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Or just choke?
安德鲁·休伯曼：或者只是窒息？
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I recommend if people are nervous, that they actually have some outlet for that movement, as I talked about before.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我建议，如果人们感到紧张，他们实际上可以为该运动找到一些发泄途径，正如我之前谈到的。
Matt Abrahams: Yes, yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: Pacing or even bouncing one's knee behind the podium, very effective at dispelling energy and getting one to relax.
Andrew Huberman：在讲台后面踱步，甚至用膝盖弹跳，非常有效地驱散能量并让人放松。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: I just think it's been a useful tool for me, and I think for others I've suggested to as well.
Andrew Huberman：我认为这对我来说是一个有用的工具，我认为对其他人来说也是如此。
But how bad do you think it is if somebody suddenly stops on stage and just says, "Sorry, I've lost my train of thought," and goes back to it?
但是，如果有人突然在舞台上停下来，只是说：“对不起，我失去了思路”，然后又回到了原来的状态，你认为这有多糟糕？
Do you think it humanizes them, or do you think that it actually is deadly for the message?
你认为这会让他们变得人性化，还是你认为这实际上对信息来说是致命的？
Matt Abrahams: Like with my students, I have to say it depends.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：就像我的学生一样，我不得不说这要看情况。
It depends on the circumstance that you're in.
这取决于你所处的环境。
I do believe that audiences are more forgiving.
我相信观众会更加宽容。
What I advise the people I teach and coach to do in those moments is, instead of saying, "Oh, I forgot what I want to say," why not say, "I get sometimes so passionate about what I say, I get a little ahead of myself"?
我建议我所教导和指导的人在这些时刻不要说，“哦，我忘了我想说的是什么”，为什么不说，“我有时对我所说的充满热情，我有点超前了”？
Which is likely true, and use that as a reason to reset.
这可能是真的，并以此作为重置的理由。
Matt Abrahams: Let me share with you what I advise people to do to avoid blanking out, and then what to do if you do blank out.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：让我与您分享我建议人们如何避免出现空白，以及如果您出现空白该怎么办。
First and foremost, avoid memorizing.
首先，也是最重要的一点，避免死记硬背。
Memorizing invites blanking out.
记住会导致空白。
So let's not memorize.
所以我们就不要去记忆了。
Let's have a clear structure, a roadmap, but we don't know every word that we're going to say.
让我们有一个清晰的结构、一个路线图，但我们不知道我们要说的每一个字。
Matt Abrahams: The fear of blanking out leads and increases the likelihood of blanking out.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：害怕消除线索并增加了消除线索的可能性。
So, let's not worry about blanking out as much as we do.
所以，我们不必像我们一样担心空白。
How do we do that?
我们该怎么做呢？
We rationalize.
我们合理化。
I ask everybody to think about, "What is the likelihood in this upcoming communication, whatever it is, one-on-one, big presentation, that you'll blank out?" Most people say maybe 20%.
我请大家想一想，“在即将到来的沟通中，无论是什么，一对一的大型演讲，你会一片空白的可能性有多大？”大多数人说可能是20%。
Well, that means 80% of the time you're not going to blank out.
嗯，这意味着 80% 的时间你不会陷入空白。
I'm not a betting person; I'd take those odds.
我不是一个赌博的人；我会接受这些赔率。
Matt Abrahams: So, realizing that it's not as likely to happen, that's step one.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，意识到这种情况不太可能发生，这是第一步。
Step two, ask yourself, "If it were to happen, what's the worst thing that would happen for me?" Well, it would be incredibly embarrassing, it would be awkward, and it might have some short-term implications.
第二步，问自己：“如果发生这种情况，对我来说最糟糕的事情是什么？”嗯，这会非常尴尬、尴尬，而且可能会产生一些短期影响。
Matt Abrahams: But who in their life hasn't been embarrassed, been in situations that are awkward, and had short-term implications?
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：但是谁的一生中没有经历过尴尬、尴尬的情况以及短期影响呢？
So, when you put it in that context, all of a sudden, blanking out isn't as likely as you think, and it's not as bad as you think.
所以，当你把它放在这样的背景下时，突然间，空白并不像你想象的那么可能，也不像你想象的那么糟糕。
That reduces the stress you have about doing it, which reduces the likelihood.
这会减少你这样做的压力，从而降低可能性。
Matt Abrahams: So, by not memorizing and rationalizing, you can actually reduce the likelihood of blanking out.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，通过不记忆和合理化，你实际上可以减少大脑空白的可能性。
Now, let's say the worst happens: You blank out.
现在，假设最坏的情况发生了：你一片空白。
You don't know what to say.
你不知道该说什么。
First and best thing to do is just what you'd do if you lose your phone or lose your keys: Retrace your steps.
首先要做的也是最好的事情就是如果您丢失手机或钥匙，您会做的事情：原路返回。
Repeat what you just said.
重复你刚才说的话。
Most of us can remember what we just said, and then that gets us back on track.
我们大多数人都能记住我们刚刚说过的话，然后这会让我们回到正轨。
Matt Abrahams: If that doesn't work, the final rip cord, I think you can pull, is to distract your audience.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：如果这不起作用，我认为你可以拉动最后的绳索，以分散观众的注意力。
What does that mean?
这意味着什么？
Ask a question.
问一个问题。
This will happen to me.
这会发生在我身上。
I teach the same class a lot.
我在同一堂课上教了很多次。
Sometimes I can't remember, "Did I say this this time?" I just need a moment to think.
有时我记不起，“这次我说过这个吗？”我只需要一点时间思考。
I'll just pause, and I'll ask my students a question.
我会暂停一下，然后问我的学生一个问题。
Matt Abrahams: They think that's logical.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：他们认为这是合乎逻辑的。
Anybody can come up with a question.
任何人都可以提出问题。
If you ever hear me, anybody listening, if you ever hear me say, "I want to pause for a moment, and have you think about what we've just discussed can be applied to your life." That means I have forgotten what I want to say next.
如果你听过我的话，任何人听过，如果你听过我说，“我想暂停一下，让你想想我们刚才讨论的内容可以应用到你的生活中。”这意味着我已经忘记接下来要说什么了。
In my mind, I'm like, "What the heck do I say next?" Most of the people in my audience are like, "How would I apply that in my life?
我心里想，“接下来我该说什么？”我的听众中的大多数人都会说，“我将如何将其应用到我的生活中？
That's great." It gives me that fraction of a second, gives me that sense of control.
那太好了。”它给了我那一瞬间，给了我那种控制感。
Matt Abrahams: Most of us can leverage a question to buy us that time.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我们大多数人都可以利用一个问题来赢得时间。
So, let's not say, "Oh, my goodness, I've forgotten.
所以，我们不要说：“哦，天哪，我忘了。
It's the worst thing ever." "I get passionate sometimes, I get ahead of myself, give me a moment." Or just ask a question.
这是有史以来最糟糕的事情。” “我有时会变得充满激情，我会超前，给我一点时间。”或者只是问一个问题。
It's similar to...
它类似于...
I advise people who are nervous speakers never to say, "Oh, excuse me, I'm so nervous." A lot of people try to pre-apologize for their nervousness, and all they do is prime us to pay attention to everything they do that's nervous.
我建议那些紧张的演讲者永远不要说：“哦，对不起，我太紧张了。”很多人试图为自己的紧张预先道歉，而他们所做的只是让我们注意他们所做的一切紧张的事情。
So, let's not call attention to the mistakes we make.
所以，我们不要让人们注意到我们所犯的错误。
Let's just do what we can to get through them, and that's going to help.
让我们尽我们所能来度过难关，这将会有所帮助。
Andrew Huberman: Great advice that I'm sure will help a lot of people.
Andrew Huberman：很好的建议，我相信会对很多人有所帮助。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: I hope so.
马特·亚伯拉罕：我希望如此。
Andrew Huberman: The most spectacular example of a recovery I've ever seen was actually a job talk at Stanford.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我见过的最引人注目的复苏例子实际上是斯坦福大学的一次工作演讲。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I don't know if I should include this person's name.
Andrew Huberman：我不知道是否应该包括这个人的名字。
He's now a professor at UNC Chapel Hill, but he could have been a faculty member at Stanford because of, I think, the data, but also what happened was he spilled water into his laptop during the talk.
他现在是北卡罗来纳大学教堂山分校的教授，但我认为他本来可以成为斯坦福大学的一名教员，因为这些数据，而且他在演讲期间把水洒进了笔记本电脑。
Matt Abrahams: Oh!
马特·亚伯拉罕：哦！
Andrew Huberman: You know, they have a podium, where everyone's given water, in case you get thirsty.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你知道，他们有一个讲台，每个人都可以喝水，以防口渴。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Keep the water below, folks.
Andrew Huberman：伙计们，把水保持在下面。
And he spilled it, but the way he handled it was so cool.
他把它洒了，但他处理的方式很酷。
Matt Abrahams: What'd he do?
马特·亚伯拉罕：他做了什么？
Andrew Huberman: It spilled.
安德鲁·休伯曼：它溢出了。
He didn't say anything.
他什么也没说。
He took the bottle, put the cap back on, put it underneath, reached underneath, and there was no towel.
他接过瓶子，盖上瓶盖，放到下面，伸手到下面，却没有毛巾。
He said, "Could somebody, perhaps, get me a paper towel or a towel?"
他说：“也许有人能给我一张纸巾或毛巾吗？”
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: They brought him a towel.
安德鲁·休伯曼：他们给他带来了一条毛巾。
He sopped up whatever moisture was on his laptop.
他吸干了笔记本电脑上的水分。
He said nothing the entire time.
他自始至终什么也没说。
This is Mark Zylka.
这是马克·齐尔卡。
He's a total bada**.
他真是个坏蛋**。
And then he went back and finished his talk.
然后他就回去继续讲完了。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It was like...
安德鲁·休伯曼：这就像......
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: That was awesome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：那太棒了。
Matt Abrahams: Composed under pressure.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：在压力下保持镇定。
Andrew Huberman: That was awesome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：那太棒了。
Matt Abrahams: You know, contingency planning is a really important part of all communication; thinking about what could happen that would lead this conversation or communication in one direction or the other, positive or negative?
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：你知道，应急计划是所有沟通中非常重要的一部分；想一想会发生什么事情会导致这次对话或沟通朝一个方向或另一个方向发展，无论是积极的还是消极的？
How would I respond?
我该如何回应？
It makes sense.
这是有道理的。
You know, when you plan a trip, a vacation, you think about what happens if the flight's delayed?
您知道，当您计划旅行、度假时，您会考虑如果航班延误会发生什么？
What happens if the room isn't ready?
如果房间还没有准备好怎么办？
We should do that in our communication as well, not to script it out, but just to be ready.
我们在沟通中也应该这样做，不是照本宣科，而只是做好准备。
Matt Abrahams: So, I think everybody listening now, "What would you do if your technology didn't work in that moment?" Think about it.
马特·亚伯拉罕：所以，我想现在每个人都在听，“如果你的技术在那一刻不起作用，你会怎么做？”想一想。
And then when it happens, you've got that recovery plan, and you just build that confidence.
然后当它发生时，你就制定了恢复计划，并且建立了信心。
Perhaps, he had thought about, "What happens if I can't use my tech?" And that's what helped him be calm.
也许，他曾想过，“如果我不能使用我的技术会怎样？”这就是帮助他保持冷静的原因。
Andrew Huberman: Incidentally, he works on pain.
安德鲁·休伯曼：顺便说一句，他致力于治疗疼痛。
Matt Abrahams: Okay.
马特·亚伯拉罕：好的。
Andrew Huberman: I don't know what that's worth.
Andrew Huberman：我不知道那值多少钱。
But it was just an awesome display of calm under pressure.
但这只是在压力下表现出的冷静。
Matt Abrahams: Confidence.
马特·亚伯拉罕：信心。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman: Or something under pressure.
Andrew Huberman：或者压力下的事情。
I think it was the fact that he just kept things moving forward.
我认为这是他让事情继续前进的事实。
Matt Abrahams: And stood in silence.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：静静地站着。
The ability to stand in silence in front of people demonstrates confidence in so many ways.
在人们面前保持沉默的能力在很多方面都表现出了自信。
And so, the fact that he was able to take care of business in silence, I think, added to that.
因此，我认为，他能够默默地处理事务这一事实也增加了这一点。
Andrew Huberman: I feel like when people get nervous, their voice gets up into their heads.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我觉得当人们感到紧张时，他们的声音就会出现在他们的脑海中。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: They start going up on their tiptoes, and they start asphyxiating themselves by speaking much higher than their natural tone of voice is.
安德鲁·休伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：他们开始踮起脚尖，说话的声音比他们的自然语气高得多，他们开始让自己窒息。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So, sometimes I encourage people to slow down, and try and drop their voice down further into their throat and chest a little bit.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，有时我鼓励人们放慢速度，尝试将声音进一步降低到喉咙和胸部。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: It can be artificial, like there's one very salient example of a former CEO, who perhaps didn't have the voice that they spoke with.
Andrew Huberman：这可能是人为的，就像有一个非常突出的例子，一位前首席执行官可能没有与他们交谈的声音。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But assuming it's still your voice, right?
Andrew Huberman：但假设这仍然是你的声音，对吧？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Oh, absolutely.
马特·亚伯拉罕：哦，当然。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah?
安德鲁·休伯曼：是吗？
Matt Abrahams: You taught me, when you were a guest on my show, a lot about breath and how breath can impact not only your confidence and the anxiety you feel, but also how doing breathwork can really help you still your whole body.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：当你作为我的节目的嘉宾时，你教了我很多关于呼吸的知识，以及呼吸如何不仅影响你的信心和你感受到的焦虑，而且还告诉我呼吸如何真正帮助你平静你的整个身体。
And allow your natural voice to come out.
并让您自然的声音发出来。
Because when we get anxious, we breathe shallow, less air is being pushed out, it's being pushed out faster, and our voice starts sounding like this.
因为当我们感到焦虑时，我们呼吸变浅，排出的空气更少，排出的速度更快，我们的声音开始听起来像这样。
And sometimes this is actually really appropriate.
有时这实际上是非常合适的。
If I'm really excited about something, I should sound like this, but I want it under my control.
如果我真的对某件事感到兴奋，我应该听起来像这样，但我希望它在我的控制之下。
So, breathwork and having an authentic, natural voice is really important.
因此，呼吸和拥有真实、自然的声音非常重要。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, one thing you might find interesting, that's come out in the literature since the last time we spoke, is that, while the physiological side, double inhale, long exhale, is still the best way to calm down quickly, turns out that all exhale-emphasized breathing slows the heart down.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：是的，你可能会觉得有趣的一件事是，自从我们上次谈话以来，文献中出现了这一点，那就是，虽然生理方面的双吸气、长呼气仍然是快速平静下来的最佳方法，但事实证明，所有强调呼气的呼吸都会减慢心率。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Hmm, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯，是的。
Andrew Huberman: Just subtly, but significantly enough that it helps you calm down.
Andrew Huberman：虽然很微妙，但足以帮助你平静下来。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So, if people can't remember what breathwork to do, physiological side, just emphasize an exhale.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，如果人们不记得要做什么呼吸，生理方面，只需强调呼气即可。
Extend it, make it a little bit more vigorous.
延长它，让它更有活力一点。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: If you need to be covert about it, maybe just extend it a little bit, maybe walk back to the podium or away, and do that long exhale.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：如果你需要隐藏起来，也许只是延长一点，也许走回讲台或离开，然后长长地呼气。
That seems to really make a big difference because you're offloading carbon dioxide, but also there's this pathway through the vagus nerve that literally slows your heart rate down when you exhale.
这似乎真的有很大的不同，因为你正在排出二氧化碳，而且还有一条穿过迷走神经的通路，当你呼气时，它确实会减慢你的心率。
It's pretty spectacular that we have these mechanisms in us, you know?
我们体内有这些机制真是太壮观了，你知道吗？
Matt Abrahams: I think it's fantastic, and I give credit to you at every single lecture I give when I talk about anxiety.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：我认为这太棒了，当我谈论焦虑时，我在每次演讲中都会赞扬你。
I talk about what you shared with me.
我谈论你与我分享的内容。
It's all about the exhale, and I will always say, "The rule of thumb," and then I'll joke, "The rule of lung, is you want your exhale to always be longer than your inhale to help you calm down." And people have found that liberating.
一切都与呼气有关，我总是会说，“经验法则”，然后我会开玩笑说，“肺的法则，就是你希望呼气总是比吸气长，以帮助你平静下来。”人们发现这是一种解放。
So I appreciate that you shared that with me, and know that others are taking advantage of that.
所以我很感激你与我分享这一点，并且知道其他人正在利用这一点。
Andrew Huberman: You're welcome, and it came from a place of need, that I came across those tools.
Andrew Huberman：不客气，我是出于需要才发现了这些工具的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Because I think that we can prepare, prepare, prepare.
安德鲁·休伯曼：因为我认为我们可以准备、准备、再准备。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But it's the knowledge that things happen in the moment that we can't control.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但我们知道事情会在我们无法控制的那一刻发生。
Matt Abrahams: That's right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：没错。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, that's the really scary thing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，这才是真正可怕的事情。
Right?
正确的？
Matt Abrahams: That's right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：没错。
And if you think about it, most of our communication is that it's spontaneous.
如果你仔细想想，我们大多数的交流都是自发的。
We don't know what's going to happen.
我们不知道会发生什么。
I mean, a lot of what you and I have been talking about is planned communication.
我的意思是，你和我一直在谈论的很多内容都是有计划的沟通。
It's the presentation, the pitch, the meeting with an agenda.
这是演示、推介、有议程的会议。
But most of our communication is spontaneous.
但我们大多数的交流都是自发的。
We don't know how it's going to unfold.
我们不知道事情会如何发展。
You ask me a question.
你问我一个问题。
I don't know what that question is.
我不知道这个问题是什么。
I don't even know if I know the answer.
我什至不知道我是否知道答案。
You ask me for feedback.
你向我寻求反馈。
I make a mistake.
我犯了一个错误。
I have to fix it.
我必须解决它。
Matt Abrahams: Most of our communication is spontaneous, and getting comfortable with that discomfort of not knowing how this will transpire is a big part of the mindset shift that you have to have to do better in spontaneous speaking.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我们大多数的交流都是自发的，适应不知道这将如何发生的不适是心态转变的一个重要组成部分，你必须在自发的演讲中做得更好。
Andrew Huberman: Beta blockers, yes.
Andrew Huberman：β受体阻滞剂，是的。
Beta blockers, no.
β受体阻滞剂，不。
Matt Abrahams: No. So, I have a heart condition, and I take beta blockers regularly.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：不。所以，我有心脏病，我定期服用β受体阻滞剂。
And I see how it slows down your thinking and your body.
我看到它如何减慢你的思维和身体。
I'm not a fan.
我不是粉丝。
I think cognitive behavioral ways of managing anxiety, much better.
我认为管理焦虑的认知行为方法要好得多。
Matt Abrahams: I'm not a medical doctor, obviously.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：显然，我不是一名医生。
There are some people for whom beta blockers might work, but I actively discourage people if they're just wanting to take it to manage anxiety.
有些人可能会使用β受体阻滞剂，但如果人们只是想用它来控制焦虑，我会积极劝阻他们。
I think there are so many other things we can do first, before you have to go there.
我认为在你必须去那里之前我们可以先做很多其他的事情。
But my experience has been, it makes me fuzzy, and I'm not as quick.
但我的经验是，这让我变得模糊，而且我没那么快。
Andrew Huberman: Which makes sense, because you're not getting as much oxygen and blood to your brain.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这是有道理的，因为你的大脑没有获得足够的氧气和血液。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Getting a great night's sleep the night before clearly helps.
Andrew Huberman：前一天晚上睡个好觉显然有帮助。
What do you do, or recommend for people that get a lousy night's sleep the night before?
对于前一天晚上睡不好的人，您会做什么或推荐什么？
Matt Abrahams: Well, I would like to ask you that question.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯，我想问你这个问题。
I am an awful sleeper.
我的睡眠质量很差。
I am a really, really-
我真的是一个——
Andrew Huberman: Oh, we can fix that.
Andrew Huberman：哦，我们可以解决这个问题。
Matt Abrahams: Good.
马特·亚伯拉罕：很好。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Well, let's fix that today, because I am a lousy sleeper.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：好吧，我们今天就解决这个问题，因为我睡眠质量很差。
Absolutely, it is better to get a good night's sleep than it is to stay up all night cramming.
当然，睡个好觉比熬夜补习要好。
I tell everybody to train for a big communication event, like you would train for a sporting event.
我告诉大家为大型交流活动进行训练，就像为体育赛事进行训练一样。
You need to eat well.
你需要吃得好。
I call it communication hygiene.
我称之为沟通卫生。
You need to eat well, sleep well, exercise.
你需要吃得好，睡得好，锻炼身体。
It is much better to stay on routine, than to deviate from your routine.
保持常规比偏离常规要好得多。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: There is some research around caffeine consumption.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：有一些关于咖啡因摄入的研究。
Caffeine consumption is actually really good when you're ideating for creativity.
当你在构思创意时，摄入咖啡因实际上非常有好处。
When you actually go to present, you shouldn't deviate from whatever your standard protocol is for caffeine.
当你真正去演讲时，你不应该偏离咖啡因的标准协议。
You shouldn't all of a sudden go cold turkey.
你不应该突然戒掉。
But taking additional caffeine because you didn't sleep well the night before can just agitate you during the presentation and communication.
但因为前一天晚上没睡好而额外摄入咖啡因只会让你在演讲和交流过程中感到不安。
So, getting a good night's sleep is great.
所以，睡个好觉是很棒的。
I am not the best person to give advice on how to do it.
我不是提供建议的最佳人选。
Andrew Huberman: Well, we could have a long discussion about this.
Andrew Huberman：嗯，我们可以对此进行长时间的讨论。
We're going to save some of it for afterwards.
我们将保存一些以供以后使用。
Matt Abrahams: And I listen to you-
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我听你的——
Andrew Huberman: I would say the couple of things that have helped me over the years, traveling to give talks, both for the podcast and academic stuff, et cetera, is if you're going to stay in a hotel, pull the plug on the alarm clock in the hotel.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我想说，多年来对我有帮助的几件事，比如旅行做播客和学术演讲等等，就是如果你要住在酒店，请关掉酒店的闹钟。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Use your phone instead.
Andrew Huberman：请改用手机。
Put it on airplane mode, use that phone.
将其设置为飞行模式，然后使用该手机。
Why?
为什么？
Because I've been woken up many times at 4:00 in the morning, because someone prior to me had set the alarm clock.
因为我已经在凌晨4:00被叫醒很多次了，因为有人在我之前定好了闹钟。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: That just happened the other week with me.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：那是我前一周发生的事情。
Andrew Huberman: Okay, I always unplug that.
Andrew Huberman：好的，我总是拔掉插头。
I actually cover all the bright lights in the room.
我实际上遮住了房间里所有明亮的灯光。
I put a towel by the door crack.
我在门缝旁放了一条毛巾。
Matt Abrahams: Ah, okay.
马特·亚伯拉罕：啊，好吧。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, an eye mask is ideal.
Andrew Huberman：我的意思是，眼罩是理想的选择。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: I try to ask for a room away from the elevator, because that'll keep you up all night.
Andrew Huberman：我试着要一间远离电梯的房间，因为那会让你彻夜难眠。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Those are just some of the zero-cost things that are very helpful.
Andrew Huberman：这些只是一些非常有帮助的零成本的东西。
But the number one thing to recover sleep that you didn't get is this non-sleep deep rest, AKA Yoga Nidra practice.
但你没有得到的恢复睡眠的第一件事就是这种非睡眠深度休息，又名瑜伽休息练习。
Yoga Nidra is the thousands of year old practice of doing long exhale breathing.
瑜伽休息术是一种有着数千年历史的长呼气练习。
It's a 10 to 30-minute practice.
这是一个 10 到 30 分钟的练习。
Andrew Huberman: We can provide some links to scripts for these that are excellent, where you're slowing your heart rate down, you're doing a body scan, but the goal during Yoga Nidra is to stay awake with your body relaxed.
Andrew Huberman：我们可以提供一些优秀脚本的链接，例如减慢心率、进行身体扫描，但瑜伽休息术期间的目标是在身体放松的情况下保持清醒。
And it teaches you how to fall asleep more easily.
它还会教您如何更轻松地入睡。
Matt Abrahams: Hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I would argue, based on experience, that Yoga Nidra and NSDR, which is essentially the same thing, but we've removed the intentions, and I just call it non-sleep deep rest, these are zero-cost scripts out there.
Andrew Huberman：根据经验，我认为 Yoga Nidra 和 NSDR 本质上是同一件事，但我们已经消除了意图，我只是将其称为非睡眠深度休息，这些都是零成本脚本。
Matt Abrahams: Hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: My voice, other people's voice, also teaches you how to be very alert and very relaxed in your body at the same time, which is a very valuable skill for a lot of different venues, including public speaking.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我的声音，其他人的声音，也教你如何同时让你的身体保持非常警觉和放松，这对于很多不同的场合，包括公开演讲来说，都是一项非常有价值的技能。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So, it will get you better at falling and falling back asleep.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，它会让你更好地入睡和重新入睡。
So, I can send some to you.
所以，我可以寄一些给你。
Matt Abrahams: Awesome.
马特·亚伯拉罕：太棒了。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，是的。
Matt Abrahams: I'm going to partake as soon as we're done.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我们一结束我就会参加。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, and of course, you're not drinking much caffeine, right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，当然，你没有喝太多咖啡因，对吧？
You said you only drink-
你说你只喝酒-
Matt Abrahams: I do one cup of tea a day.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我每天喝一杯茶。
Andrew Huberman: So, it can't be overconsumption of caffeine?
安德鲁·休伯曼：那么，这不可能是咖啡因摄入过量？
Matt Abrahams: No, it's my...
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：不，这是我的……
I get in my head, and I think too much.
我脑子里乱七八糟，想得太多了。
Andrew Huberman: Your forebrain's working too hard.
Andrew Huberman：你的前脑工作得太辛苦了。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: Yoga Nidra will help with that.
Andrew Huberman：瑜伽休息术会对此有所帮助。
Matt Abrahams: Excellent.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：太棒了。
Andrew Huberman: Because the essence of Yoga Nidra and NSDR, forgive me, but it works so well, and it's zero cost.
Andrew Huberman：因为瑜伽休息术和 NSDR 的本质，请原谅我，但它效果很好，而且是零成本。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So it's one of these things, like, I'm not trying to pitch anything, you know, where you have to go pay for something.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以这是其中一件事，就像，我不想推销任何东西，你知道，你必须去付费。
Matt Abrahams: I'm always-
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我总是——
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I didn't develop it.
Andrew Huberman：它不是我开发的。
It's been around for a long time.
它已经存在很长时间了。
There's this instruction in Yoga Nidra that's also in these NSDRs, where you teach yourself to move your brain from a state of thinking and doing, to just being and feeling, to literally get out of thought.
瑜伽休息术中有这样的指导，这些 NSDR 中也有这样的指导，你可以教自己将大脑从思考和行动的状态转移到只是存在和感觉，真正摆脱思想。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And to do that is very difficult, unless you give your brain enough to do.
Andrew Huberman：要做到这一点非常困难，除非你有足够的大脑去做。
And this is why NSDR instructs you to do a kind of focused body scan and relaxation, because if you just try and not think, it doesn't work.
这就是为什么 NSDR 指导您进行集中身体扫描和放松，因为如果您只是尝试而不思考，那是行不通的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
You think about not thinking.
你想想就不想想。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
There's also some really interesting data on the vestibular system in falling asleep.
还有一些关于入睡时前庭系统的非常有趣的数据。
I'll share this now, just so you can try it.
我现在就分享这个，这样你就可以尝试一下。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: I did this last night.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我昨晚做了这个。
I woke up at once in the middle of the night.
半夜我一下子就醒了。
Keep your eyes closed.
闭上眼睛。
If you have to get up and use the restroom, do that first.
如果您必须起身去洗手间，请先这样做。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But keep your eyes closed, and move your eyes slowly from side to side.
Andrew Huberman：但是闭上眼睛，慢慢地从一侧移动到另一侧。
This is not EMDR.
这不是 EMDR。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But move your eyes from side to side, then move them up with your eyelids still closed, down, roll them left or counterclockwise, roll them right, clockwise, and then try and cross them a little bit, like stare at the bridge of your nose and exhale.
Andrew Huberman：但是将你的眼睛从一侧移动到另一侧，然后在眼睑仍然闭合的情况下向上移动它们，向下移动它们，向左或逆时针转动它们，向右转动它们，顺时针，然后尝试稍微交叉它们，就像盯着鼻梁并呼气一样。
Now, this might sound crazy.
现在，这听起来可能很疯狂。
It sounds completely wacky, right?
听起来很古怪，对吧？
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But what it does is it takes your vestibular system into a state, we know this based on data, that mimics the state you're trying to achieve, which is that you need to forget about your body's position.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：但它的作用是让你的前庭系统进入一种状态，我们根据数据知道这一点，模仿你试图达到的状态，也就是说你需要忘记你身体的位置。
Matt Abrahams: Oh!
马特·亚伯拉罕：哦！
Andrew Huberman: You can't fall asleep if you're thinking about your body position.
Andrew Huberman：如果你想着自己的身体姿势，你就无法入睡。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: In fact, one of the prerequisites to falling asleep is forgetting about that, which is why, there are now also data showing that rocking back and forth, the reason it's effective at making babies and adults fall asleep, they have beds that actually rock from side to side, is because you forget about your body position when your whole body is in motion.
Andrew Huberman：事实上，入睡的先决条件之一就是忘记这一点，这就是为什么，现在也有数据表明，来回摇晃，之所以能有效地让婴儿和成人入睡，他们的床实际上是左右摇晃的，是因为当你的整个身体在运动时，你忘记了自己的身体姿势。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Huh.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So, try this, and I think you'll find that it will greatly facilitate falling or falling back asleep.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，试试这个，我想你会发现它会极大地促进入睡或重新入睡。
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：当然。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Matt Abrahams: Tonight I'm putting it into practice.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：今晚我将把它付诸实践。
I get free consulting here.
我在这里得到免费咨询。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, sure.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，当然。
Matt Abrahams: Thank you.
马特·亚伯拉罕：谢谢。
Andrew Huberman: Sure, sure.
安德鲁·休伯曼：当然，当然。
Yeah, because I think that a decent night's sleep the night before is great; otherwise, do NSDR in the morning or before a talk if you can.
是的，因为我认为前一天晚上睡个好觉是很棒的；否则，如果可以的话，请在早上或演讲前进行 NSDR。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I think anything to bring your level of autonomic arousal down if you're sleep-deprived can help bring more ease to the public speaking.
Andrew Huberman：我认为，如果你睡眠不足，任何能够降低你的自主唤醒水平的方法都可以帮助你更轻松地进行公开演讲。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Yep.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Something else that I really encourage people to do to help is to have a conversation prior to whatever the big communication is.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我真正鼓励人们做的另一件事是在进行重大沟通之前进行对话。
Andrew Huberman: Oh, yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，是的。
This is huge.
这是巨大的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Matt Abrahams: To connect with people, have a conversation.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：要与人联系，就要进行对话。
Whenever I do a keynote, whenever I'm doing a big presentation, I will always be talking to people.
每当我做主题演讲，每当我做大型演讲时，我总是会与人们交谈。
Sometimes, I have to go find them, because I'm behind stage, and I've got to wait till the big introduction.
有时，我必须去找他们，因为我在后台，而且我必须等到大型介绍。
I'll go find somebody and just have a conversation.
我去找个人谈谈。
Andrew Huberman: Mm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
Matt Abrahams: That focus and present orientation that it brings, and just that act of speaking, I am so amazed at...
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：它所带来的专注和当下的方向，以及说话的行为，让我感到非常惊讶......
You know, anybody who does any athletics or music, you know you should warm up first, but people don't warm up before they speak.
你知道，任何从事体育或音乐活动的人都知道你应该先热身，但人们在说话之前不会热身。
They think they can go from silence to brilliance without it.
他们认为，没有它，他们就能从沉默走向辉煌。
Matt Abrahams: Having a communication with somebody, as mundane as you want it, can really help.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：与某人进行沟通，无论你想要多么平凡，都会很有帮助。
Do you use this technique?
你使用这种技术吗？
It looked like it resonated with you.
看起来它引起了你的共鸣。
Andrew Huberman: Absolutely, because I've often, and I still spend a lot of time preparing for podcasts and doing things in isolation.
Andrew Huberman：当然，因为我经常而且现在仍然花很多时间准备播客并单独做事情。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And I've noticed that if I do that for too long, and then I go to the corner cafe, the conversation with the barista feels like, "What is going on here?" Because you're in your head.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我注意到，如果我这样做太久，然后我去街角的咖啡馆，与咖啡师的对话感觉就像是，“这里发生了什么事？”因为你在你的脑子里。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Then it starts to feel like relief, and then your brain shifts to a different state.
安德鲁·休伯曼：然后你开始感觉如释重负，然后你的大脑就会转变为不同的状态。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: A long time ago, I realized that having some form of communication en route to a talk or something can be very helpful.
Andrew Huberman：很久以前，我意识到在演讲或其他活动中进行某种形式的沟通会非常有帮助。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: I've found, and I'd be curious what you think, that part of that is the speaking, part of it is also the taking turns piece.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我发现，我很好奇你的想法，其中一部分是演讲，一部分也是轮流的部分。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Because we're going to be speaking, it's generally just us speaking.
Andrew Huberman：因为我们要发言，所以通常只有我们自己发言。
But that really...
但那确实...
Getting into a conversation where I listen to what's coming back, forces me to also practice withholding speech.
在进行对话时，我要倾听对方的反馈，这也迫使我练习不说话。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Because I feel like a lot of bad talks are when people are just kind of fire-hosing, or they're adding little elements to the sentences where they don't need them.
安德鲁·休伯曼：因为我觉得很多糟糕的谈话都是在人们只是在喷水灭火，或者他们在句子中添加一些他们不需要的元素时发生的。
And it's just nervous.
它只是紧张。
It's just nervousness.
这只是紧张而已。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Filling the space.
填充空间。
Andrew Huberman: Filling the space.
安德鲁·休伯曼：填补空间。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: So, there's some...
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，有一些......
Like you said, you need to warm up.
就像你说的，你需要热身。
Matt Abrahams: Right, and that turn-taking, that switching, is engaging for the brain.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，这种轮流、这种转换对大脑来说很有吸引力。
I would suggest, though, that when you are up on a stage giving a big presentation, leading a big meeting, you can actually engage in dialogue.
不过，我建议，当你在舞台上进行大型演讲、主持大型会议时，你实际上可以进行对话。
It's not just calling on people, but you can also ask them.
不仅仅是打电话给别人，你也可以询问他们。
You can say, "Imagine what it would be like if..." and now you're imagining it.
你可以说，“想象一下如果……会是什么样子”，现在你正在想象它。
You're responding, even though I'm not hearing it.
你正在回应，尽管我没有听到。
Matt Abrahams: I can use an analogy or tell a story.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我可以用一个类比或讲一个故事。
We are communicating, taking turns.
我们正在交流，轮流进行。
In essence, you're just not responding vocally to me.
本质上，你只是没有对我做出口头回应。
So, a big challenge is to be engaging, and there are several ways to do it.
因此，一个巨大的挑战是保持参与，有多种方法可以做到这一点。
There's physical engagement, getting people doing something.
有身体接触，让人们做某事。
There's mental engagement, using analogies, stories, and questions.
有心理参与，使用类比、故事和问题。
There's linguistic engagement, taking people into the future or the past by saying, "Picture this," or "Imagine how it used to be." Those are ways of getting a dialogue going, even though the other person isn't speaking back, versus just me broadcasting information.
有语言参与，通过说“想象一下这个”或“想象一下它曾经是什么样子”将人们带入未来或过去。这些都是让对话继续进行的方法，即使对方没有回应，而不是只有我在广播信息。
Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.
Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下，并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
Last year, I became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
去年，在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我成为了 Function 成员。
Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests, that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health.
Function 提供 100 多项高级实验室测试，为您提供整个身体健康状况的关键快照。
This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more.
此快照为您提供有关心脏健康、激素健康、免疫功能、营养水平等方面的见解。
Andrew Huberman: They've also recently added tests for toxins, such as BPA exposure from harmful plastics, and tests for PFAS, or forever chemicals.
Andrew Huberman：他们最近还增加了毒素测试，例如有害塑料中的 BPA 暴露，以及 PFAS 或永久化学物质的测试。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are experts in the relevant areas.
Function 不仅提供对您的身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标志物的测试，还分析这些结果并提供相关领域专家顶级医生的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量升高。
Andrew Huberman: Function not only helped me detect that, but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, I'd been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification.
Andrew Huberman：功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，而且还提供了如何最好地降低汞含量的见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼摄入量，我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力多吃绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒。
And I should say, by taking a second Function test, that approach worked.
我应该说，通过进行第二次功能测试，这种方法奏效了。
Andrew Huberman: Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important.
Andrew Huberman：全面的血液检测至关重要。
There are so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test.
有很多与您的心理和身体健康相关的事情只能通过血液检查来检测。
The problem is, blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated.
问题是，血液检测一直非常昂贵且复杂。
In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost.
相比之下，Function 的简单性和成本水平给我留下了深刻的印象。
It is very affordable.
这是非常实惠的。
As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
因此，我决定加入他们的科学顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
Andrew Huberman: If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
Andrew Huberman：如果您想尝试 Function，可以访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people.
目前，Function 的等候名单已超过 250,000 人。
But they're offering early access to Huberman Podcast listeners.
但他们正在为 Huberman 播客听众提供早期访问服务。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
Andrew Huberman: I'd love your thoughts on an experience that I've had, that I think many people have, where one of the most terrifying things is when you are in a small room, maybe 10, 15, 20 people, and they say, "We're going to go around the table.
Andrew Huberman：我想听听你对我所经历过的经历的看法，我想很多人都有过这种经历，最可怕的事情之一就是当你在一个小房间里，可能有 10、15、20 个人，他们说，“我们要围着桌子转。
Introduce yourself, who you are."
自我介绍一下，你是谁。”
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Like, I want to go first, because if I have to hear people go, and then it's coming around, I don't know why, but some circuit must ramp up where as soon as I start speaking, I'm, like, hearing my own voice.
安德鲁·休伯曼：就像，我想先走，因为如果我必须听到人们走，然后它就会出现，我不知道为什么，但是一旦我开始说话，我就会听到自己的声音。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And I don't have any problem with public speaking, and guess, people haven't noticed.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我对公开演讲没有任何问题，我猜，人们还没有注意到。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But there's something about that anticipation, without it being my turn to speak, that makes it, like, really awkward.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但是，在轮不到我发言的情况下，这种期待让事情变得非常尴尬。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And then I realized at some point, if I just focus on myself and just really listen to what people are saying.
安德鲁·休伯曼：然后我在某个时候意识到，如果我只关注自己并真正倾听人们在说什么。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: When it comes around, you just say, "I'm Andrew," or "You're whoever," and then you share the information that needs to be shared.
Andrew Huberman：当它出现时，你只需说，“我是安德鲁”或“你是谁”，然后你分享需要分享的信息。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But if I'm anticipating having to speak, it's terrifying.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但如果我预计必须发言，那就太可怕了。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
It's that build-up, because it's getting closer, and closer, and closer.
就是这样的积累，因为它越来越近，越来越近，越来越近。
And the anxiety that you're feeling is getting stronger and stronger.
而且你感受到的焦虑感越来越强烈。
I don't like "Go around the room and introduce yourself." If there's a need for people to do that, I will always have people partner up or get in groups of three, and then have somebody introduce somebody else.
我不喜欢“在房间里走一圈并自我介绍”。如果有人需要这样做，我总是会让人结伴或三人一组，然后让人介绍其他人。
It's just much easier.
这更容易。
Matt Abrahams: I do exactly, and I coach exactly what you do.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我做的正是，我指导的也正是你所做的。
I tell people, "Listen to everybody else, and think to yourself a question you would ask them based on what they've said," because that causes you really to focus on what they're saying.
我告诉人们，“听听其他人的意见，然后根据他们所说的内容对自己思考一个你会问他们的问题”，因为这会让你真正专注于他们所说的内容。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: So, you're not getting into your head, and you're not really living at the peak of all the anxiety feelings you're having.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，你并没有进入你的头脑，你也没有真正生活在你所拥有的所有焦虑感的顶峰。
Matt Abrahams: Now, to help people introduce themselves.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：现在，帮助人们介绍自己。
I have a way I like to teach people to introduce themselves.
我有一种我喜欢教人们自我介绍的方法。
Don't start with your name.
不要以你的名字开头。
Start with something you care about, you're passionate about, something that interests you, and then say who you are.
从你关心的、你热衷的、你感兴趣的事情开始，然后说出你是谁。
For two reasons.
有两个原因。
There's actually a third.
其实还有第三个。
Matt Abrahams: First is, you're going to stand out, because nobody does this, so people are actually going to remember you.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：首先，你会脱颖而出，因为没有人这样做，所以人们实际上会记住你。
Second, if you start with something you're passionate about, you care about, you can use emotion and inflect your voice.
其次，如果你从你热爱、关心的事情开始，你可以运用情感并改变你的声音。
It's very hard to inflect your voice when you say your name.
当你说出你的名字时，很难改变你的声音。
And then finally, if you're a non-native speaker or you're speaking to non-native speakers who might have an accent, hearing something in advance primes our brain to say, "Oh, that's how that person speaks," so we'll actually pay attention and understand their name more.
最后，如果你是非母语人士，或者你正在与可能有口音的非母语人士交谈，提前听到一些东西会让我们的大脑说，“哦，那个人就是这样说话的”，所以我们实际上会更多地关注并理解他们的名字。
Matt Abrahams: I don't know about you, but when people with accents introduce themselves to me, sometimes it's hard for me to remember their name because my brain is trying to get used to, "That's how they speak." So, you're helping everybody.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我不了解你，但是当有口音的人向我介绍自己时，有时我很难记住他们的名字，因为我的大脑试图习惯“他们就是这样说话的”。所以，你正在帮助每个人。
So, when I introduce myself, I don't say, "I'm Matt Abrahams." I say, "I'm somebody who's passionate about communication.
因此，当我介绍自己时，我不会说“我是马特·亚伯拉罕”。我说：“我是一个热衷于沟通的人。
My name's Matt Abrahams," and then I'll say something else.
我叫马特·亚伯拉罕”，然后我会说点别的。
Andrew Huberman: You'll do this at a party?
Andrew Huberman：你会在聚会上这样做吗？
Matt Abrahams: Well, as sort of-
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯，有点-
Andrew Huberman: Or social setting?
Andrew Huberman：或者社交环境？
Matt Abrahams: So, I envision what you were saying as more like a meeting, not a party.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，我认为你所说的更像是一次会议，而不是一场聚会。
Andrew Huberman: Ah, right, right.
安德鲁·休伯曼：啊，对，对。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I have got you.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我找到你了。
Matt Abrahams: But even at a party, I might talk about the environment first, or connect myself to the environment before I say my name.
Matt Abrahams：但即使在聚会上，我也可能会先谈论环境，或者在说出我的名字之前将自己与环境联系起来。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, but I think leading with something that you care about, or are concerned about, or something in the environment, before you say your name, is a much better way to introduce yourself.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，但我认为在说出自己的名字之前，先介绍一下您关心的事情或环境中的事情，是更好的自我介绍方式。
It can't be too long, but it can really help.
虽然不会太长，但确实很有帮助。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Try it, the next time you introduce yourself.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：下次自我介绍时试试吧。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Yeah, no, it's an interesting one.
是的，不，这是一个有趣的事情。
I miss having a dog, because the dog could absorb a lot of the awkwardness.
我怀念养狗，因为狗可以吸收很多尴尬。
Matt Abrahams: Oh, yeah?
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：哦，是吗？
Andrew Huberman: He was just so handsome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：他真是太帅了。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah?
马特·亚伯拉罕：是吗？
Andrew Huberman: People had to look at him.
安德鲁·休伯曼：人们不得不看着他。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: You know?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你知道吗？
Matt Abrahams: Having a young child does the same thing.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：拥有一个年幼的孩子也能起到同样的作用。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Like, kids are a wonderful bridge to all sorts of things.
就像，孩子是通向各种事物的美妙桥梁。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: But you can find those bridges in lots of things.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：但是你可以在很多事情中找到这些桥梁。
Yeah.
是的。
A now dear, close friend of mine, I met waiting in line...
我现在亲爱的、亲密的朋友，我在排队时遇到的……
I was at a conference.
我当时正在参加一个会议。
You know these academic conferences.
你知道这些学术会议。
We were at some buffet line.
我们在一些自助餐排队。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: And I didn't know anybody.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我谁也不认识。
I was sent by my department.
我是我部门派来的。
And there's this guy standing next to me.
还有这个人站在我旁边。
We were standing too close, where we kind of had to talk.
我们站得太近了，我们不得不说话。
Matt Abrahams: And I just looked around the room, and I noticed that lots of people were wearing different shades of blue, and I just said, "Did I miss the memo about wearing blue?" And he looks around, and he said, "Yeah, that's weird." And we started a conversation there.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我环顾房间，发现很多人都穿着不同深浅的蓝色，我只是说，“我错过了关于穿蓝色的备忘录吗？”他环顾四周，说道：“是的，这很奇怪。”我们在那里开始了谈话。
Matt Abrahams: I didn't need a dog.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我不需要狗。
I didn't need a kid.
我不需要孩子。
I just made an observation, and that broke the ice enough for us to talk, and now we're good friends.
我刚刚做了一个观察，这打破了僵局，足以让我们交谈，现在我们是好朋友了。
Whenever I travel to where he is, I visit.
每当我去他所在的地方时，我都会去拜访。
Matt Abrahams: Whenever he's out here, he visits.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：每当他来这里时，他都会来拜访。
Andrew Huberman: Hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
Matt Abrahams: So, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves around this initiation of communication, and just being inquisitive and commenting on something in the environment can help.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，我们在这种沟通的开始上给自己施加了很大的压力，只要保持好奇心并对环境中的某些事物进行评论就会有所帮助。
Andrew Huberman: Can we do the British wind-up?
安德鲁·休伯曼：我们可以结束英国的活动吗？
A lot of people won't know what that is.
很多人不知道那是什么。
There's this much older lady that lives in my neighborhood, and she has this little, tiny dog.
我家附近住着一位年长的女士，她养了一只小狗。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And I figure if I just walk over to her, she's going to be a little scared.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我想如果我走到她身边，她会有点害怕。
But I see her often.
但我经常见到她。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And so do a wind-up.
Andrew Huberman：结束也是如此。
I walked over to her, and I said, "Wait, is that the dog that mauled that kid over in Inglewood?" And she was like, "You're pulling my leg." And then we become friends, right?
我走到她身边，说道：“等等，就是那只狗在英格尔伍德咬伤了那个孩子吗？”她说：“你在开我的玩笑。”然后我们就成为朋友了，对吗？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: No, because I'm not going to just walk up to her and be, "Hey, can..."
安德鲁·胡伯曼：不，因为我不会走到她面前说：“嘿，可以……”
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Because it's like someone looming on you.
Andrew Huberman：因为就像有人在你身边若隐若现。
Matt Abrahams: Oh, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：哦，是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman: It's a little scary, right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：有点吓人，对吧？
So I stole the wind.
所以我偷了风。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: In Britain, I think they call it a wind-up.
Andrew Huberman：在英国，我认为他们称之为“结束”。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：对吗？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: So I wasn't trying to be funny, I really like this lady, and her dog is super cute.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以我并不是想搞笑，我真的很喜欢这位女士，而且她的狗超级可爱。
And clearly, I need to get another dog.
显然，我需要再养一只狗。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: If one thing has come from this interview, it's Andrew needs another dog.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：如果说这次采访有什么意义的话，那就是安德鲁需要另一只狗。
Andrew Huberman: Thanks to you, many more things have come from this interview of far more utility as well.
安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢你，这次采访带来了更多有用的东西。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But, I don't suggest anyone smoke, but I think back in the day, this was the whole thing of people bumming a smoke.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但是，我不建议任何人吸烟，但我想在过去，这就是人们吸烟的全部内容。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: They'd take breaks.
Andrew Huberman：他们会休息。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I worked a job where I did some packaging and building of scooters and wagons at a toy store in downtown Palo Alto.
Andrew Huberman：我在帕洛阿尔托市中心的一家玩具店从事摩托车和货车的包装和制造工作。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Ah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：啊。
Andrew Huberman: And on breaks, you'd go into the alley, and there were people working at the bakery next door, and you'd strike up a conversation.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：在休息的时候，你会走进小巷，看到隔壁面包店有人在工作，然后你就会开始交谈。
I didn't smoke, but you'd strike up a conversation, and then you'd get to know somebody by name.
我不抽烟，但你们会开始交谈，然后你们就会认识某人的名字。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Right
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：对
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But nowadays people are often in their phones.
Andrew Huberman：但现在人们经常使用手机。
Matt Abrahams: We use the phone as a pacifier and as a way of not having to engage.
马特·亚伯拉罕（Matt Abrahams）：我们使用手机作为安抚奶嘴，并作为一种不必参与的方式。
I have encouraged my two kids to help them get out of this cycle, to show something that you're looking at on the phone.
我鼓励我的两个孩子帮助他们摆脱这个循环，展示你在手机上看到的东西。
Invite someone, "Hey, this is pretty cool.
邀请某人，“嘿，这太酷了。
What do you think?
你觉得怎么样？
Check out this meme." So use the phone, as you're saying, that cigarettes used to serve as a way to initiate conversation, as long as it's appropriate.
看看这个表情包。”因此，正如您所说，使用电话，香烟曾经是一种发起谈话的方式，只要合适即可。
Matt Abrahams: And it's funny, I know exactly the toy store you're talking about because I know that bakery no longer exists, but I used to go there all the time.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：很有趣，我确切地知道你所说的玩具店，因为我知道面包店不再存在，但我以前经常去那里。
Andrew Huberman: They closed Prolific Oven?
Andrew Huberman：他们关闭了 Prolific Oven？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, it's gone.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，它消失了。
Andrew Huberman: Oh.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哦。
Matt Abrahams: It's now a great restaurant, by the way.
Matt Abrahams：顺便说一句，现在它是一家很棒的餐厅。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I guess we can say, because it was Palo Alto Toy and Sport World.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我想我们可以这么说，因为这是帕洛阿尔托玩具和体育世界。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It was one of the oldest businesses.
Andrew Huberman：这是最古老的企业之一。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: They had a skateboard shop in the back, but prior to working in the skateboard shop, I sold shoes, and I used to build wagons.
Andrew Huberman：他们后面有一家滑板店，但在滑板店工作之前，我卖过鞋子，也曾经制造过马车。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Radio Flyer wagons and tricycles and stuff like that.
Andrew Huberman：无线电传单货车和三轮车之类的东西。
Matt Abrahams: I used to go there as a kid because we not only would get a toy, but we'd get to have a treat, too.
马特·亚伯拉罕（Matt Abrahams）：我小时候经常去那里，因为我们不仅可以得到玩具，而且还可以享受美食。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Oh, yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，是的。
Matt Abrahams: So yeah, those were fun outings.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，那些都是有趣的郊游。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, that place was cool.
Andrew Huberman：是的，那个地方很酷。
It was family-owned.
它是家族所有的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: All right, well, now we're taking people down memory lane here.
Andrew Huberman：好吧，现在我们要带人们回忆起这里。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman: But if in downtown Palo Alto, you can check it out.
Andrew Huberman：但是如果在帕洛阿尔托市中心，你可以去看看。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I think the sign is still there, but-
安德鲁·休伯曼：我认为标志仍然在那里，但是-
Matt Abrahams: It might be.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：可能是这样。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And that actually brings up something useful.
Andrew Huberman：这实际上带来了一些有用的东西。
I mean, I had jobs where I was a...
我的意思是，我的工作是...
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: They didn't call it a barista then, but I worked at a muffin shop around the corner, which then got me that job, I think, from a conversation across the counter.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：当时他们并不称其为咖啡师，但我在拐角处的一家松饼店工作，然后我想，通过柜台对面的谈话，我得到了这份工作。
I think my niece worked a job at selling frozen yogurt before she went off to college recently.
我想我的侄女最近上大学之前从事过销售冷冻酸奶的工作。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So, get a job.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，找份工作吧。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
No, I think-
不，我认为——
Andrew Huberman: As a kid, get a job where you interact with people.
Andrew Huberman：小时候，找一份与人互动的工作。
Matt Abrahams: Having a job where you're in customer service as a kid is so educational for so many reasons, communication being an important one.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：小时候从事客户服务工作非常有教育意义，原因有很多，沟通是其中一个重要因素。
You learn how to communicate with a lot of different people.
您将学习如何与许多不同的人沟通。
You learn how to be in service of other people's needs in that moment.
在那一刻，您将学习如何满足他人的需求。
I think it's wonderful.
我认为这很棒。
My first job, and a job I had a lot during high school, I worked at an athletic club, folding towels.
我的第一份工作，也是我在高中期间做过的很多工作，是在一家体育俱乐部工作，负责折叠毛巾。
And when people would come in, I would give them the towel, and we'd have some small talk.
当人们进来时，我会给他们毛巾，然后我们会闲聊一些。
It taught me to be very comfortable.
它教会我变得非常舒服。
Matt Abrahams: I had to announce...
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我必须宣布......
I mean, this sounds so silly, but I, "The gym is closing in 30 minutes." But as a high school student, I had to say that with 100 people in the gym?
我的意思是，这听起来很傻，但我，“健身房 30 分钟后就要关门了。”但作为一名高中生，我不得不说，体育馆里有 100 个人？
That was nerve-racking, but that was part of my desensitization.
这很伤脑筋，但这是我脱敏的一部分。
Andrew Huberman: So cool.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太酷了。
Yeah, I think that...
是的，我认为...
I don't want to sound old because I am old.
我不想让自己听起来很老，因为我已经老了。
I'm 50 now.
我现在50岁了。
But I feel good.
但我感觉很好。
Matt Abrahams: You're young, Andrew.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：你还年轻，安德鲁。
Andrew Huberman: I feel good.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我感觉很好。
I'm going to go another 50 years.
我还要再过50年。
That's the goal.
这就是目标。
Matt Abrahams: Good.
马特·亚伯拉罕：很好。
Andrew Huberman: Hopefully, healthy all along.
安德鲁·休伯曼：希望一直健康。
But I think being a camp counselor is the perfect example of doing something you barely understand how to do and having to project confidence doing it.
但我认为，作为一名营地辅导员是一个完美的例子，你可以做一些你几乎不知道如何做的事情，并且必须表现出自信去做这件事。
Matt Abrahams: Oh, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, they teach you a few things at least when I did it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，至少当我这样做时，他们教了你一些东西。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But it's like suddenly you're in charge of all these lives.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但这就像突然之间你就掌控了所有这些生活。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, if you think about it, it's pretty wild.
Andrew Huberman：我的意思是，如果你仔细想想，就会发现这非常疯狂。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But by the second session, you're in a groove.
Andrew Huberman：但是到了第二节课时，你就已经进入最佳状态了。
Matt Abrahams: Okay.
马特·亚伯拉罕：好的。
Andrew Huberman: Like, you're telling people what to do, when to listen, letting them do what they want, when they want.
Andrew Huberman：就像，你告诉人们该做什么，何时倾听，让他们在他们想要的时候做他们想做的事。
You can't use harsh forms of communication.
你不能使用粗暴的沟通方式。
Matt Abrahams: And you need to adapt and adjust.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：你需要适应和调整。
Andrew Huberman: But you need to keep them safe, so you need to use your voice appropriately.
Andrew Huberman：但是你需要保证他们的安全，所以你需要适当地使用你的声音。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Oh, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman: Raise it when it's necessary, if somebody's in danger, that kind of thing.
Andrew Huberman：如果有人处于危险之中，必要时就举起它。
So, doing that sort of thing, I think, is how we learn how to communicate.
所以，我认为，做这类事情就是我们学习如何沟通的方式。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Oh, absolutely, and unfortunately, some of those opportunities and jobs are changing, and we have to find other vehicles to help people.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：哦，当然，不幸的是，其中一些机会和工作正在发生变化，我们必须找到其他工具来帮助人们。
When I left high-tech, I taught high school for two years before I graduated to do what I'm doing now, and I learned so much about communication teaching 14, 15-year-olds that I never learned working in adults' running organizations like I did.
当我离开高科技行业时，我在高中教了两年书，然后毕业了，开始做我现在正在做的事情，我学到了很多关于 14、15 岁孩子沟通教学的知识，以至于我从来没有像我一样在成人运营组织中工作过。
So getting these opportunities is precious, yet we don't have a lot of those opportunities.
因此，获得这些机会是宝贵的，但我们的机会并不多。
Matt Abrahams: One thing I think we can all do with the younger generation, and even colleagues we have, is role model and talk through some of the things that we're thinking about in terms of our communication.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为我们都可以对年轻一代甚至我们的同事做的一件事就是树立榜样，并讨论我们在沟通方面正在考虑的一些事情。
So I, with my children, will often say, "I have to have a difficult conversation tomorrow with a colleague or with a boss, and I'm really worried about this, or I'm thinking about saying it this way." We don't often get meta about our communication, and yet they're learnings that we can pass along.
所以我和我的孩子们经常会说，“我明天要和同事或者老板进行一次艰难的谈话，我真的很担心这个，或者我正在考虑这样说。”我们并不经常了解我们的沟通的元数据，但他们是我们可以传递的知识。
Matt Abrahams: And you saw it, I see it where we're both affiliated with our teaching.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：你看到了，我也看到了，我们都隶属于我们的教学。
I mean, people are brilliant, and they're really good communicators, but they weren't always that way.
我的意思是，人们都很聪明，而且他们确实是很好的沟通者，但他们并不总是这样。
They had to learn, and they had to do it.
他们必须学习，而且必须这样做。
And when you start talking to people, which I have the advantage of doing, is asking them, "How did you get to do that?
当你开始与人们交谈时，我有这样做的优势，那就问他们：“你是如何做到这一点的？
What do you do?" There's so much richness in that, and I think we just have to open up that conversation, role model it, but also talk about it with the younger people in your life, the people you're trying to build up, and that'll really help.
你做什么？”这其中有很多丰富的内容，我认为我们只需要展开对话，树立榜样，而且还要与你生活中的年轻人、你想要建立的人谈论它，这真的会有帮助。
Andrew Huberman: Do you think by virtue of the pandemic and the lockdowns and social media, that there is a swath of people right now who really don't know how to engage the same way that people even younger than them do?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：您是否认为，由于疫情、封锁和社交媒体的影响，现在有很多人真的不知道如何像比他们更年轻的人那样参与进来？
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So this isn't an ageist thing.
Andrew Huberman：所以这不是年龄歧视的问题。
Matt Abrahams: Mm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: It's really that they missed out on an opportunity to engage.
Andrew Huberman：他们确实错过了参与的机会。
They talk...
他们说话...
What is it, the Gen Z stare?
Z世代的凝视是什么？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Is that a real thing?
安德鲁·休伯曼：这是真的吗？
Matt Abrahams: I don't know about the Gen Z stare, but I do think there are critical periods in development, not just in kids.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：我不知道 Z 世代的目光如何，但我确实认为发展中存在关键时期，而不仅仅是孩子。
Andrew Huberman: Sure.
安德鲁·休伯曼：当然。
Matt Abrahams: And I think that generation of kids lost a critical development.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为那一代孩子失去了关键的发展。
One of my sons was in high school, and high school is a great place to learn about yourself and about communication, and if you're doing it through a screen, that's a very different experience.
我的一个儿子正在上高中，高中是了解自己和沟通的好地方，如果你通过屏幕进行这些操作，那是一种非常不同的体验。
Matt Abrahams: Now, I think he's a very good communicator, but they missed on an opportunity.
马特·亚伯拉罕：现在，我认为他是一个非常好的沟通者，但他们错过了一个机会。
A lot of how you learn is by testing and trying things out, and if you've lost a couple of years of that testing, puts you at a disadvantage.
你学习的很多方式都是通过测试和尝试，如果你失去了几年的测试机会，你就会处于不利地位。
Matt Abrahams: I know because of what I do, we can build that back and learn it, but there is a whole swath of people who had to struggle in a way most of us didn't.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我知道，因为我所做的事情，我们可以重建并学习它，但有很多人不得不以我们大多数人没有经历过的方式奋斗。
Andrew Huberman: My graduate advisor, who I really admire very much, she's passed away, but I've always admired her was once described by somebody, I think quite aptly, as quiet but not shy.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的研究生导师，我真的非常钦佩，她已经去世了，但我一直很钦佩她，曾经有人形容她，我认为很恰当，安静但不害羞。
Matt Abrahams: Mm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And I realize it's a very powerful phenotype.
Andrew Huberman：我意识到这是一种非常强大的表型。
And I mention it because some people listening to this conversation might think, "I'm just not that chatty."
我之所以提到这一点，是因为有些人听了这段对话可能会想：“我只是没那么健谈。”
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But they're not necessarily shy.
Andrew Huberman：但他们并不一定害羞。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Like, they're perfectly happy to be in conversation and be quiet until there's something that they want to say.
安德鲁·休伯曼：就像，他们非常乐意进行交谈并保持安静，直到有话要说。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And sometimes she wouldn't say anything, and sometimes she would say things, and indeed, she was very, very smart, but she's also very at ease.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：有时她什么也不说，有时她会说些什么，事实上，她非常非常聪明，但她也很放松。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: So I came to learn that there are people who are quiet, but not shy.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以我开始了解到有些人很安静，但并不害羞。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And I think that's a phenotype we don't often acknowledge when we hear about introverted, extroverted.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我认为，当我们听到内向和外向时，我们通常不会承认这是一种表型。
Matt Abrahams: My father was exactly that way.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我的父亲就是这样。
My father, most intelligent person I've ever known.
我的父亲，我所认识的最聪明的人。
He was very quiet, but he wasn't shy, and if he had something to say, he would say it, and it would often be very profound.
他很安静，但并不害羞，有话就说，而且往往很深刻。
And it was the way he lived in the world, and people appreciated it, and he leaned into it.
这就是他在世界上的生活方式，人们欣赏它，他也倾向于这种方式。
He had opportunities to speak and would sit back, and I learned a lot from him, that sometimes the most effective communication is to just listen and be present.
他有机会发言并且会坐下来，我从他身上学到了很多，有时最有效的沟通就是倾听并在场。
Matt Abrahams: So I agree that there are people who have a lot of value to add, and they just might be reticent in the moment.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以我同意有些人有很多价值可以增加，但他们目前可能会保持沉默。
And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
我不认为这有什么问题。
We need diversity not only of ideas and opinions, but diversity in the way we communicate.
我们不仅需要思想和观点的多样性，还需要沟通方式的多样性。
We hold in our culture, this notion that the extroverted, confident person is the right way to communicate, and that's not always true.
在我们的文化中，我们坚信外向、自信的人才是正确的沟通方式，但事实并非总是如此。
Matt Abrahams: You can get into a lot of trouble, especially extroverts who speak first and think second.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：你可能会遇到很多麻烦，尤其是那些先说话后思考的外向者。
Andrew Huberman: Especially nowadays where everything's recorded.
Andrew Huberman：尤其是现在一切都会被记录下来。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: People will say stupid things that they wish they hadn't said.
Andrew Huberman：人们会说一些他们希望自己没有说过的愚蠢的话。
I mean, chairs of departments, fortunately not at Stanford, but chairs of major university departments have gotten themselves fired by being too loose with their thumbs on what was formerly called Twitter.
我的意思是，院系主任，幸运的是不是在斯坦福大学，但主要大学院系的主任却因为对以前称为推特的网站过于宽松而被解雇。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I know at least one prominent example, and you just go like, "What were you thinking?"
安德鲁·休伯曼：我至少知道一个突出的例子，你就会说：“你在想什么？”
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And apparently they weren't filtering well enough.
Andrew Huberman：显然他们的过滤不够好。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Brilliant people.
安德鲁·休伯曼：才华横溢的人。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And it wasn't even something that it was clear they really believed.
安德鲁·休伯曼：而且这甚至不是他们真正相信的事情。
They just said something really offensive and really stupid.
他们只是说了一些非常无礼和非常愚蠢的话。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: And it's like, at least at that time, it was sufficient for them to lose their position.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：至少在当时，他们失去自己的位置就足够了。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
I wasn't into anything nefarious or bad.
我不喜欢任何邪恶或坏事。
I was a good kid growing up, but I can't imagine growing up with everything being recorded.
我在成长过程中是一个好孩子，但我无法想象在一切都被记录下来的情况下成长。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, it's probably a tense time for a lot of people, but people seem to be vocalizing and sharing more as opposed to less.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，对于很多人来说这可能是一个紧张的时期，但人们似乎在发声和分享更多，而不是更少。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: Although I suppose there's a sampling bias, because we're not hearing from the quiet ones without social media accounts.
安德鲁·休伯曼：虽然我认为存在抽样偏差，因为我们没有听到没有社交媒体帐户的安静人士的声音。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I feel like almost everyone has a social media account now.
Andrew Huberman：我觉得现在几乎每个人都有社交媒体帐户。
Matt Abrahams: What I do admire about all of this social media is how people who are younger than I am, at least, are able to manage their presence in so many different domains.
马特·亚伯拉罕：我对所有这些社交媒体真正钦佩的是，至少比我年轻的人能够在如此多的不同领域管理自己的存在。
Andrew Huberman: Mm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
Matt Abrahams: I can barely show up dressed appropriately for a conversation.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我几乎无法穿着得体参加谈话。
They're able to manage their presence on different platforms, some virtually, some in person, and that's an art.
他们能够管理自己在不同平台上的存在，有些是虚拟的，有些是面对面的，这是一门艺术。
That's a skill, to be able to project yourself in different ways, in different venues.
这是一种技能，能够在不同的场所以不同的方式展示自己。
And again, I'm not saying be disingenuous or inauthentic, but there's a skill there.
再说一遍，我并不是说不诚实或不真实，但这是有技巧的。
Matt Abrahams: I coach a lot of senior leaders who I'm trying to coach to really be mindful of your presence, how you show up, what it means.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我指导了很多高级领导者，我试图指导他们真正注意你的存在，你的表现，以及它的意义。
And I see in my students, who are generally in their mid to late 20s, who this comes easy to them.
我在我的学生中看到，他们通常都在 20 多岁左右，这对他们来说很容易。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: This is just something they know how to do.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：这只是他们知道该怎么做的事情。
So, I'm not bashing social media ever, but I do think that there's some skills that come with it that others could benefit from.
所以，我从来没有抨击社交媒体，但我确实认为社交媒体带来的一些技能可以让其他人受益。
Andrew Huberman: Maybe that's why the younger generation is so much better at it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：也许这就是为什么年轻一代在这方面做得更好的原因。
Because I see my peers from high school.
因为我看到了高中的同龄人。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I see people 10 years, 20 years older than I am that seem to have an immense need to be seen on social media.
Andrew Huberman：我看到比我大 10 岁、20 岁的人似乎非常需要在社交媒体上被看到。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And it's part of my job which is why I do it.
Andrew Huberman：这是我工作的一部分，这就是我这样做的原因。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: But prior to that, I didn't really have social media accounts or didn't use them.
Andrew Huberman：但在此之前，我并没有真正拥有社交媒体帐户或没有使用它们。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But in any case, there's no judgment from me on that.
Andrew Huberman：但无论如何，我对此没有任何判断。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I agree, it's a lot of cognitive load.
Andrew Huberman：我同意，这是很大的认知负担。
Matt Abrahams: It is, but they are able to switch in and out of that in a way that is hard for me and certainly hard for some of the people I work with.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：是的，但他们能够以一种对我来说很难，对我的一些同事来说也很难的方式来切换。
Andrew Huberman: I'm curious about martial arts and running.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我对武术和跑步很好奇。
But in particular, martial arts.
但特别是武术。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Do you think that playing a sport or engaging in martial arts can actually teach you how to be more comfortable in your physical body in a way that transfers to public speaking, one-on-one communication, small group communication, just presence, posture, and stance?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你认为参加运动或武术实际上可以教会你如何让自己的身体更加舒适，从而转化为公开演讲、一对一沟通、小组沟通、存在感、姿势和立场吗？
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
I enjoy the question, thank you.
我很喜欢这个问题，谢谢。
I don't often talk about my martial arts.
我不常谈论我的武术。
I've been doing it over 40 years, and it's a very much a part of who I am, and I absolutely think what I've learned in the martial arts has helped me do better at what I do, and I think what I do has helped me be better in the martial arts.
我从事这项运动已有 40 多年了，这是我的一部分，我绝对认为我在武术中学到的东西帮助我在我所做的事情上做得更好，我认为我所做的也帮助我在武术方面做得更好。
There is a presence and a connection that you need to have to do martial arts well, especially when you're working with somebody else.
想要做好武术，你需要有一种存在感和一种联系，尤其是当你和别人一起工作时。
It gives a kind of confidence that I know I can handle myself in circumstances.
它给了我一种信心，让我知道我可以在各种情况下处理好自己。
Matt Abrahams: I don't expect to be attacked, but I know that in a situation where things go sideways, that I can have some presence about myself, and that confidence is invaluable in everything I do.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我不希望受到攻击，但我知道，在事情出岔子的情况下，我可以保持一定的风度，而这种信心对我所做的一切都是无价的。
And martial arts is really a form of communication.
武术实际上是一种交流形式。
I'm observing what my opponent or that my training partner is doing.
我正在观察我的对手或我的训练伙伴正在做什么。
I am trying to connect and anticipate the next move, but not get locked into it.
我试图连接并预测下一步的行动，但不被束缚。
It really trains your brain and your body to be responsive and to be open.
它确实可以训练你的大脑和身体的反应能力和开放性。
Matt Abrahams: People focus a lot on the martial, but the art side, as I get older, is what really attracts me.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：人们非常关注武术，但随着我年龄的增长，艺术方面才是真正吸引我的地方。
Art is about expression, style, connection, and that, to me, as I've matured in my training, has really become this new wealth of knowledge.
艺术是关于表达、风格、联系，对我来说，随着我在训练中的成熟，这些已经真正成为新的知识财富。
Somebody said, "You've been studying the same thing for 40 years." It's not the same thing.
有人说：“你研究同一件事已经40年了。”这不是同一件事。
It changes.
它改变了。
It's multiple levels and ways of uncovering, so I think it's great.
它有多个层次和多种揭示方式，所以我认为这很棒。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: I think everybody should have some physical activity they do that helps them in whatever professional activity or their personal lives.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我认为每个人都应该进行一些身体活动，这对他们的职业活动或个人生活有帮助。
You can learn so much about yourself and how to connect with others.
您可以了解自己以及如何与他人联系。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I think there's tremendous learning in, for lack of a better term, exercise, but there's something unique about martial arts or a sport, not to say that running isn't a sport.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我认为，由于缺乏更好的术语，锻炼可以学到很多东西，但是武术或一项运动有其独特之处，并不是说跑步不是一项运动。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It can be or that resistance training isn't a sport.
Andrew Huberman：阻力训练可能不是一项运动。
It can be.
可以的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: But I think if people are just exercising and only viewing it through that lens, that they're not gleaning the full benefit.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但我认为，如果人们只是锻炼并且只通过这个镜头来看待它，他们就不会获得全部好处。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I actually try and make my resistance training sessions a sort of meditation.
Andrew Huberman：我实际上尝试让我的阻力训练课程成为一种冥想。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I don't allow myself to text or, in most cases, bring in too much other information.
Andrew Huberman：我不允许自己发短信，或者在大多数情况下，带入太多其他信息。
I'll listen to music or a podcast.
我会听音乐或播客。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But I'm careful with that.
Andrew Huberman：但我对此很谨慎。
I want to focus on what I'm doing, and I think it's great practice for cognitive pursuits.
我想专注于我正在做的事情，我认为这对于认知追求来说是很好的练习。
Matt Abrahams: My running is my meditation.
马特·亚伯拉罕：我的跑步就是我的冥想。
When I run, I might listen to something, but I really meditate.
当我跑步时，我可能会听一些东西，但我真的会冥想。
I find I'm very creative as a result of it, and when I don't do it, I miss it.
我发现我因此变得非常有创造力，当我不这样做时，我就会怀念它。
One area that I like about the martial arts, at least in the styles I've trained in, they vary in terms of their activity.
我喜欢武术的一个领域，至少在我所训练的风格中，它们的活动各不相同。
So some of the stuff is completely spontaneous.
所以有些事情是完全自发的。
You're sparring.
你们在打架。
It's spontaneous.
这是自发的。
There are some rules, but you're sparring.
有一些规则，但你是在陪练。
Matt Abrahams: And in the style I train, there are things called katas or forms, where essentially a pre-arranged dance of moves, longer, everything is scripted.
马特·亚伯拉罕：在我训练的风格中，有一种叫做“型”或“形式”的东西，本质上是一种预先安排的舞蹈动作，时间更长，一切都是有脚本的。
And then in my style, we do these things called self-defense techniques, where you practice certain moves to get out of.
然后按照我的风格，我们做这些称为自卫技术的事情，你可以练习某些动作来摆脱困境。
Each of those is training you a different way of thinking and being, just like there are different ways of thinking and being in communication.
每一个都在训练你不同的思维和存在方式，就像沟通时有不同的思维和存在方式一样。
Matt Abrahams: Sometimes it's completely spontaneous.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：有时这完全是自发的。
Sometimes I'm giving prepared remarks.
有时我会发表事先准备好的言论。
Sometimes it's Q&A, where I'm saying some things I've prepared, but others I haven't.
有时是问答，我会说一些我已经准备好的事情，但另一些我还没有准备。
So finding vehicles to help you train in different ways, cross-training, if you will, for your communication, can really help.
因此，寻找工具来帮助您以不同的方式进行训练，交叉训练（如果您愿意的话）对于您的沟通确实会有帮助。
Andrew Huberman: Fantastic, and I really like this idea that we need to consider the different styles of different audiences.
Andrew Huberman：太棒了，我真的很喜欢这个想法，我们需要考虑不同观众的不同风格。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Along those lines, I solicited for questions from the audience on social media, and there's some terrific questions here.
安德鲁·休伯曼：沿着这些思路，我在社交媒体上向观众征求问题，这里有一些很棒的问题。
Matt Abrahams: Great.
马特·亚伯拉罕：太棒了。
Andrew Huberman: Terrific because I know they relate to questions that many other people are sure to have as well.
Andrew Huberman：太棒了，因为我知道它们与许多其他人也肯定有的问题有关。
To kick it off, somebody asked, "Why do you think women apologize before sharing their opinions?
首先，有人问：“你认为为什么女性在分享自己的观点之前要道歉？
What should they do instead?" Do you observe this?
他们应该做什么呢？”你观察到这一点吗？
Matt Abrahams: I see this often.
马特·亚伯拉罕：我经常看到这种情况。
Apologizing is a way of trying to connect, yet I think it can backfire.
道歉是一种试图建立联系的方式，但我认为这可能会适得其反。
So instead of saying, "I'm sorry," or, "I didn't do work," start with something that you're confident in.
因此，不要说“对不起”或“我没有做工作”，而是从你有信心的事情开始。
And if you do need to apologize because there's something you didn't do or you need to do, have that come later.
如果您确实需要道歉，因为您没有做或需要做某件事，请稍后再道歉。
Matt Abrahams: The way you start an interaction sets the tone for the whole interaction, and if I start by putting myself one down because I'm not prepared, or I should have done this differently, then our interaction is going to be very different.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：你开始互动的方式为整个互动定下了基调，如果我因为没有准备好而一开始就贬低自己，或者我应该以不同的方式做这件事，那么我们的互动将会非常不同。
So start with something that you're comfortable with and confident in, and then if you need to apologize, apologize later.
因此，从您感到满意和有信心的事情开始，然后如果您需要道歉，请稍后再道歉。
It really makes a big difference.
这确实有很大的不同。
Andrew Huberman: I'm going to layer in an additional question.
Andrew Huberman：我要提出一个附加问题。
I've seen people give talks that begin with, "I didn't sleep that well last night," or, "I'm jet-lagged, so forgive me if I blank, blank, and blank."
我见过有人在演讲时这样开头：“我昨晚睡得不太好”，或者“我要倒时差，如果我一片空白，一片空白，一片空白，请原谅我。”
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Basically, trying to preload the talk with maybe a buffer so that if they make a mistake, they're more protected.
Andrew Huberman：基本上，尝试在演讲中预先加载一个缓冲区，这样如果他们犯了错误，他们就会受到更多保护。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It drives me crazy, but maybe I'm just crazy anyway.
Andrew Huberman：这让我发疯，但也许我只是疯了。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: No, it bothers me, too.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：不，这也让我烦恼。
Andrew, my wife taught me a long time ago, I can't pre-apologize, and that's what people are trying to do.
安德鲁，我的妻子很久以前就教我，我不能预先道歉，而这正是人们试图做的。
Right?
正确的？
And all you do in those circumstances is prime people to pay attention to whatever it is you're doing.
在这种情况下，你所做的就是让人们注意你正在做的事情。
So if I say, "I didn't sleep well," then people are going to be looking, "Oh, he's stuttering over his words.
因此，如果我说，“我睡得不好”，那么人们就会认为，“哦，他说话结巴了。
He's stumbling." You want people to focus on your message.
他绊倒了。”您希望人们关注您的信息。
Don't pre-apologize.
不要预先道歉。
Just get to what you're doing, and if something comes up, you get to decide in the moment.
专注于你正在做的事情，如果出现什么情况，你就可以立即做出决定。
"Do I address it, or do I just keep going?"
“我该解决这个问题，还是继续前进？”
Andrew Huberman: How to communicate well across cultures and accents?
Andrew Huberman：如何跨文化和口音进行良好的沟通？
You talked a little bit about this earlier, but maybe we could revisit that.
您之前谈到过这一点，但也许我们可以重新讨论一下。
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: So, culture and context loom large in all communication.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：因此，文化和背景在所有沟通中都很重要。
And when I talk about culture, I'm not just talking about country of origin.
当我谈论文化时，我不仅仅谈论原籍国。
Different organizations have different cultures.
不同的组织有不同的文化。
Different departments within organizations have cultures.
组织内的不同部门有文化。
Different generations have different cultures.
不同的世代有不同的文化。
So we just have to be sensitive to that.
所以我们必须对此保持敏感。
Our messages have to play differently.
我们的信息必须以不同的方式发挥。
So whenever we communicate, we have to think about who we're communicating to and the context and culture in which we're communicating.
因此，每当我们沟通时，我们都必须考虑我们正在与谁沟通以及我们沟通的背景和文化。
Matt Abrahams: We live in a diverse society, in a diverse world, where we hear lots of viewpoints, lots of people from different places.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我们生活在一个多元化的社会，一个多元化的世界，我们听到很多观点，很多来自不同地方的人。
Accents loom large.
口音显得很大。
On my show, "Think Fast, Talk Smart," I've interviewed a lot of people who are experts in non-native speaking, and what they all tell me is, the goal of a non-native speaker is not to sound like a native speaker.
在我的节目“快速思考，聪明说话”中，我采访了很多非母语专家，他们都告诉我，非母语人士的目标不是听起来像母语人士。
It's impossible.
这是不可能的。
It can't be.
不可能。
You're not a native speaker.
你不是母语人士。
Rather, focus on getting your message across.
相反，专注于传达您的信息。
Take the pressure off of yourself.
减轻自己的压力。
Matt Abrahams: So what does that mean?
马特·亚伯拉罕：那这是什么意思？
That means I might make my point, and then what I do is I repeat it with a story, or I give an example, or I tell an analogy.
这意味着我可能会阐述我的观点，然后我所做的就是用一个故事重复它，或者我举一个例子，或者我讲一个类比。
It's about getting the point across, not about worrying about, I'm using exactly the right word and the right syntax?
这是为了表达观点，而不是担心，我使用了正确的单词和正确的语法？
And the reality is, I don't know about you, but a lot of native speakers of English, they don't speak English so well either themselves.
现实是，我不了解你，但很多以英语为母语的人，他们自己的英语也说得不好。
So I think it's all about getting your point across and using repetition and other tools to help.
所以我认为关键是要让别人明白你的观点并使用重复和其他工具来提供帮助。
Andrew Huberman: How to deal with interrupting?
Andrew Huberman：如何处理打扰？
We have a colleague at Stanford, by the way, that told me, "If they interrupt, it's a sign of interest," which helped the interactions.
顺便说一句，我们在斯坦福大学的一位同事告诉我，“如果他们打断，那就是兴趣的表现”，这有助于互动。
But the question here is, how should we handle interruptions?
但这里的问题是，我们应该如何处理中断？
We still want to make the interrupter feel heard in most cases, but sometimes it can be distracting.
在大多数情况下，我们仍然想让打断者感觉被听到，但有时它可能会分散注意力。
Matt Abrahams: Two ways: First, set expectations up front.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：有两种方法：首先，预先设定期望。
Setting boundaries can be helpful.
设定界限可能会有所帮助。
So if I'm going into a situation, I might say, "I want to spend the first five minutes laying the foundation to what I'm going to say, and then I'd love to take your questions." So if the person does interrupt, they're violating an expectation that was set, and that puts you in a better position to maybe shut it down.
因此，如果我遇到某种情况，我可能会说：“我想花前五分钟为我要说的话奠定基础，然后我很乐意回答您的问题。”因此，如果这个人确实打断了谈话，那么他们就违反了既定的期望，这让你更有可能阻止它。
You can say, "Thank you.
你可以说：“谢谢你。
I hear you're really anxious.
听说你真的很着急。
I really want to get through this material." So setting boundaries can help.
我真的很想读完这些材料。”因此，设定界限会有所帮助。
I believe one of the most useful communication tools is paraphrasing.
我相信最有用的沟通工具之一是释义。
Matt Abrahams: Paraphrasing is where you take what somebody has said, you synthesize it, and you distill it down to something important.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：释义是指你将某人所说的话进行综合，然后将其提炼成重要的东西。
If somebody interrupts you, you can take the floor back by paraphrasing what they've said and moving back on.
如果有人打断你，你可以通过解释他们所说的话来重新发言，然后继续。
So if I'm talking about the financial implications of something, and you come in and give me your opinion, and you interrupt me, and I can say, "Cost is really important," and in fact, I just took it back from you.
因此，如果我正在谈论某件事的财务影响，你进来给我你的意见，然后你打断了我，我可以说，“成本真的很重要”，事实上，我只是从你那里收回了它。
Matt Abrahams: If you are somebody who wants to just share your overwhelming knowledge, and you're one of those people who bloviates, I can stop that by interrupting with a paraphrase.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：如果你只是想分享你压倒性的知识，而你又是那些夸夸其谈的人之一，我可以通过解释来打断你。
I can say, "That point you just made about X, really important.
我可以说，“你刚才关于 X 的观点非常重要。
We're going to talk about that next on the agenda." I think paraphrasing is the most polite way to get control back, be it from an interrupter or somebody who's just talking too much.
我们将在议程上讨论下一个问题。”我认为释义是重新获得控制权的最礼貌的方式，无论是来自打断者还是说话太多的人。
Matt Abrahams: It can feel uncomfortable to interrupt somebody with a paraphrase, but if you're in front of a room of people or a meeting, not doing it is actually more rude to the other people than it is being rude to the person who spoke.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：用释义打断某人可能会让人感觉不舒服，但如果你在一个房间或一个会议面前，不这样做实际上对其他人比对说话的人无礼更无礼。
So, paraphrasing, I think, gets you out of those circumstances.
因此，我认为，释义可以让你摆脱这些情况。
Andrew Huberman: Someone said, "How do I prepare for a speech?" I think there's a lot that goes into that, but perhaps there's a shorter answer that you could give us, a sort of key bins of preparation.
安德鲁·休伯曼：有人问：“我如何准备演讲？”我认为这涉及很多内容，但也许您可以给我们一个更简短的答案，一种关键的准备箱。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：当然。
Let me give you a few top things.
让我给你一些最重要的事情。
First and foremost, you have to think about who is the audience I'm speaking to?
首先，你必须考虑我正在演讲的听众是谁？
What's important and relevant to them related to the topic I want to speak on?
与我要谈论的主题相关的什么对他们来说是重要且相关的？
All of us, when we communicate, suffer from the curse of knowledge and the curse of passion.
我们所有人在交流时都会遭受知识的诅咒和激情的诅咒。
We know a lot about what we're saying, and we care a lot about it, and because of that, we can make assumptions, start too deep, et cetera.
我们对我们所说的内容了解很多，并且我们非常关心它，因此，我们可以做出假设，开始得太深，等等。
First, think about your audience relative to your topic.
首先，考虑一下与你的主题相关的受众。
That's number one.
这是第一。
Number two, come up with a clear goal.
第二，制定明确的目标。
Matt Abrahams: Many of us take our audience on a journey of our discovery of what we want to say as we're saying it.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我们中的许多人都会带着观众踏上一段发现自己想说的话的旅程。
We don't have a clear path.
我们没有明确的道路。
To me, a goal has three parts: information, emotion, and action.
对我来说，目标由三部分组成：信息、情感和行动。
What do I want them to know?
我想让他们知道什么？
How do I want them to feel?
我希望他们有什么感觉？
And what do I want them to do?
我希望他们做什么？
Once you have an understanding of your audience and your goal, then apply a structure.
一旦您了解了您的受众和目标，就可以应用一个结构。
Don't just list and itemize information.
不要只是列出并逐项列出信息。
Problem, solution, benefit.
问题、解决方案、收益。
Past, present, future.
过去、现在、未来。
What, so what, now what?
什么，那又怎样，现在怎么办？
There are myriad structures.
有无数的结构。
Matt Abrahams: If you do that, you will have content that's meaningful to your audience and increases the likelihood of fidelity of the communication.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：如果你这样做，你将拥有对你的受众有意义的内容，并增加沟通保真度的可能性。
Then you have to practice.
然后你必须练习。
It's not enough to have a good message, you have to practice the delivery.
光有好的信息是不够的，你还必须练习如何传达信息。
If you do those things, you will give better talks, you will have better conversations, and better meetings.
如果你做了这些事情，你就会进行更好的演讲、更好的对话和更好的会议。
Andrew Huberman: I was thinking about something a few moments ago.
Andrew Huberman：我刚才在想一件事。
For people who are afraid of public speaking because they might choke or dissolve into a puddle of their own tears on stage, or freeze or whatever.
对于那些害怕公开演讲的人来说，因为他们可能会在舞台上窒息或融化成自己的泪水，或者冻结或其他什么。
Do you think it's useful?
你觉得有用吗？
I would think it would be useful to try and think about what you want to happen as opposed to what you don't want to happen.
我认为尝试思考你想要发生什么而不是你不想发生什么会很有用。
Matt Abrahams: That's right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：没错。
That's right.
这是正确的。
A lot of people envision the worst, and they self-create that.
很多人都设想了最坏的情况，然后他们自己创造了这种情况。
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
这是一个自我实现的预言。
Imagine what the potential could be.
想象一下潜力有多大。
Set yourself for that positive expectation.
为自己设定积极的期望。
And it doesn't have to be, "This is going to be the best communication ever." Just be, "I'm going to add value.
而且不一定是“这将是有史以来最好的沟通”。只是，“我要增加价值。
People are going to learn something.
人们将会学到一些东西。
People won't make a mistake that I'm advising them to avoid." Just have a positive outcome in mind, and that can really help.
人们不会犯我建议他们避免的错误。”只要心中有一个积极的结果，这确实会有帮助。
Matt Abrahams: So, thinking about what value is in it for you and for your audience before you communicate can really make a big difference.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，在交流之前考虑一下它对你和你的听众有什么价值，确实会产生很大的影响。
Andrew Huberman: A few people asked questions that relate to interpersonal relations that you may be equipped to solve for them.
安德鲁·休伯曼：有些人问了与人际关系有关的问题，你可能有能力为他们解决。
But how should I win an argument without losing somebody?
但我该如何在不失去某人的情况下赢得一场争论呢？
Is that a different podcast?
这是一个不同的播客吗？
Matt Abrahams: That would be a whole different podcast.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：那将是一个完全不同的播客。
Here's what I'll tell you, though: listening is important.
不过，我要告诉你的是：倾听很重要。
A lot of our arguments are over things that, that really don't exist.
我们的很多争论都是针对那些实际上不存在的事情。
I've done some mediation work in my life, and the number one thing I make people do when I bring two people who disagree together is I make each listen to the other, and often the argument disappears.
我一生中做过一些调解工作，当我把两个意见不同的人聚集在一起时，我让人们做的第一件事就是让每个人都倾听对方的意见，而争论往往就会消失。
People didn't realize that.
人们没有意识到这一点。
And the second bit of advice, I learned this from two friends of mine, and my wife and I deploy this a lot.
第二个建议是我从我的两个朋友那里学到的，我和我的妻子经常采用这一点。
Matt Abrahams: When we are set up to have a disagreement, we each declare how important whatever the issue is to us is.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：当我们出现分歧时，我们每个人都会宣称，无论这个问题对我们来说有多重要。
Because we assume, if I'm really passionate about something, I assume when we're arguing that you're equally as passionate, but that's not always true.
因为我们假设，如果我真的对某件事充满热情，我会假设当我们争论时你也同样充满热情，但这并不总是正确的。
But if I come at you with my full passion, and you're not as passionate, I'm going to make you more passionate, so all of a sudden we're fighting.
但如果我带着全部的热情来找你，而你没有那么热情，我会让你更加热情，所以突然之间我们就吵起来了。
Matt Abrahams: So if I want to go out to Chinese food, and my wife wants to go out to Mexican food, I might say, "For me, Chinese food is an eight, because I really have been craving it." She says, "Mexican food for me is a three today." There's no fight, there's no argument.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，如果我想去吃中餐，而我的妻子想出去吃墨西哥菜，我可能会说，“对我来说，中餐是八分，因为我真的很想吃它。”她说：“今天的墨西哥菜对我来说是三份。”没有战斗，没有争论。
But if she says it's an eight, and I say it's an eight, then we have the issue.
但如果她说是八，而我说是八，那么我们就有问题了。
So, understanding the prioritization and really listening to understand what's involved, you can mitigate a lot of the conflict that you're having.
因此，了解优先级并真正倾听并了解所涉及的内容，您可以减轻很多冲突。
Andrew Huberman: Somebody asked, "How do I get rid of filler words?
Andrew Huberman：有人问：“我如何摆脱填充词？
Um, like, et cetera."
嗯，比如等等。”
Matt Abrahams: I had a guest on my show, she's a psycholinguist, and she helped me realize that filler words are not bad.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我的节目中有一位嘉宾，她是一位心理语言学家，她帮助我意识到填充词也不错。
Filler words are actually helpful.
填充词实际上很有帮助。
They do things for us.
他们为我们做事。
They save the space.
他们节省空间。
So if I'm not done talking, and I don't want others to interrupt, I say, "Um," and "Uh." There's research in the child development literature that says, when we speak to kids, before we say a new term or give a new idea, we will often preface it with a filler word, "um," or "uh."
因此，如果我没说完，并且不想让别人打断，我会说“嗯”和“呃”。儿童发展文献中的一项研究表明，当我们与孩子交谈时，在说出新术语或提出新想法之前，我们通常会用填充词“嗯”或“呃”作为开头。
Matt Abrahams: We signal what's coming next is important, and I think that's why it drives us nuts when somebody says so many filler words, because we've been trained as kids that something important follows it, and when all that follows it is another "um," we get frustrated.
马特·亚伯拉罕：我们发出信号，表明接下来发生的事情很重要，我认为这就是为什么当有人说这么多填充词时，我们会发疯，因为我们从小就接受过训练，知道接下来会发生一些重要的事情，而当接下来发生的只是另一个“嗯”时，我们会感到沮丧。
So the goal is not to eliminate these; the goal is to make them not distracting.
所以我们的目标不是消除这些；而是目标是让它们不分散注意力。
In fact, playwrights and screenwriters will actually add filler words to make it sound human.
事实上，剧作家和编剧实际上会添加填充词，使其听起来更人性化。
Matt Abrahams: The best way I know to reduce filler words, especially the ones that are most annoying, and those are the ones that sit in silence.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：我知道减少填充词的最好方法，尤其是那些最烦人的填充词，以及那些保持沉默的填充词。
So I'm done speaking, and then I start speaking again.
我讲完了，然后我又开始讲了。
Those are the ones that really stand out, is a breath technique.
这些才是真正引人注目的，那就是呼吸技巧。
Matt Abrahams: I learned this from somebody who has been teaching communication skills for a long, long time.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我从一位长期教授沟通技巧的人那里学到了这一点。
His name is Jerry Weissmann, and it's called landing phrases.
他的名字叫杰里·韦斯曼，这就是所谓的着陆短语。
When we speak, we need to be pushing air out.
当我们说话时，我们需要将空气排出。
If I am inhaling, I can't speak.
如果我吸气，我就无法说话。
I invite everybody listening and watching to try to say, "um," while inhaling.
我邀请每个聆听和观看的人在吸气时尝试说“嗯”。
You can't do it.
你做不到。
Matt Abrahams: So if I train myself at the end of my sentences and phrases to land the phrase, to be out of breath, I have to inhale.
马特·亚伯拉罕：所以，如果我训练自己在句子和短语的末尾找到短语，要上气不接下气，我就必须吸气。
Not only can I not say, "um," I can't say anything, I build in a pause.
我不仅不能说“嗯”，我什么也不能说，我停顿了一下。
So as you speak, train yourself to land.
所以当你说话的时候，训练自己着陆。
And the reason I call it landing a phrase, it's like a gymnast who does all those flips and twirls, and then they stick the landing.
我之所以称其为着陆短语，就像体操运动员做了所有这些翻转和旋转，然后他们坚持着陆。
So at the end of each of my phrases, I'm completely out of breath.
所以在我的每句话结束时，我都气喘吁吁。
I inhale, and then I start speaking again.
我吸气，然后又开始说话。
You can reduce significantly the filler words.
您可以显着减少填充词。
Matt Abrahams: Now, you have to practice this, and the way I teach everybody to practice, look at your calendar or schedule every day, and once a day, read out loud everything on your schedule, and at the end of each one, land the phrase.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：现在，你必须练习这个，以及我教每个人练习的方式，每天查看你的日历或日程安排，每天一次，大声读出你日程安排上的所有内容，并在每个结尾处记住这句话。
So I might say, "Going to lunch with Andrew.
所以我可能会说，“和安德鲁一起吃午饭。
Working out at the gym.
在健身房锻炼。
Seeing my son for dinner." At the end of each one of those phrases, I've landed my phrase.
来看我儿子吃饭。”在每一个短语的末尾，我都找到了我的短语。
I'm out of breath.
我气喘吁吁了。
I'm training myself how to do that.
我正在训练自己如何做到这一点。
You'll get rid of many of your filler words.
您将摆脱许多填充词。
Andrew Huberman: Fantastic.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
I'm going to try to do that.
我将尝试这样做。
Matt Abrahams: You don't have many filler words.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：你没有太多的填充词。
Andrew Huberman: I have to check some recordings of the podcast.
Andrew Huberman：我必须检查播客的一些录音。
Someone wants to know how to tell a story without turning it into a sermon.
有人想知道如何讲故事而不把它变成布道。
Matt Abrahams: Ah.
马特·亚伯拉罕：啊。
Andrew Huberman: How to know when it's going on too long.
Andrew Huberman：如何知道何时持续时间过长。
Matt Abrahams: There are two ways to answer that question.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：有两种方法可以回答这个问题。
One is about time.
一是关于时间。
How long does it take?
多久时间？
My mother has a wonderful saying.
我妈妈有一句话说得很精彩。
She likes to say, "Tell the time, don't build the clock." Many of us are clock builders when we communicate.
她喜欢说：“告诉时间，不要建造时钟。”当我们沟通时，我们中的许多人都是时钟建造者。
We say much more than we need to.
我们说的比我们需要说的多得多。
So if you have to tell a story, think about what's the most critical few.
因此，如果你必须讲一个故事，请考虑一下最关键的几个故事。
In the military, they talk about bottom line up front.
在军队中，他们预先谈论底线。
Get that bottom line up there.
把底线放在那儿。
So, don't say more than you need to.
所以，不要说超出你需要的内容。
Matt Abrahams: The other part is you have to make the story engaging and relevant to the people you're talking to.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：另一部分是你必须让故事引人入胜并与你正在交谈的人相关。
A lot of people have such a preamble to get to the start.
很多人都有这样的序言来开始。
A colleague of mine likes to talk about parachuting in.
我的一位同事喜欢谈论跳伞。
Just jump right in and then build the rest of the story.
直接跳进去，然后构建故事的其余部分。
A lot of us, "Well, it was a rainy day, and then it was this, and it was that, it was that." Just get to the story first.
我们很多人，“好吧，那是一个下雨天，然后是这个，又是那个，又是那个。”先讲故事吧。
So if you parachute in, and you remind yourself to be concise and clear, you're going to tell more engaging and better stories.
因此，如果你跳伞，并提醒自己要简洁明了，你就会讲出更吸引人、更好的故事。
Andrew Huberman: Several people asked how to ask for a raise.
Andrew Huberman：有几个人问如何要求加薪。
Hmm.
唔。
Matt Abrahams: There are several characteristics I'd like people to think about when you ask for something that you want, especially from a boss or an authority figure.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：当你提出你想要的东西时，尤其是向老板或权威人物提出要求时，我希望人们考虑几个特征。
First, think about context.
首先，考虑一下背景。
Look at your boss's schedule before you ask for a raise.
在要求加薪之前先看看老板的日程安排。
Are you the fifth meeting in a row before you go in?
你们是在进去之前连续第五次见面吗？
Maybe it's better to go tomorrow when you're early.
也许你明天早点去会更好。
So context matters.
所以背景很重要。
I have a colleague who studied parole decisions judges make, and he found that decisions are different before lunch and after lunch, even though the cases are the same.
我有一位同事研究了法官做出的假释决定，他发现午餐前和午餐后的决定是不同的，即使案件相同。
Matt Abrahams: When you ask, you have to think about that.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：当你问的时候，你必须考虑这一点。
Second, when positioning yourself, think about from your boss's perspective, what are the criteria they would think about in terms of giving a raise?
其次，在给自己定位的时候，站在老板的角度想一想，他们在加薪时会考虑什么标准？
Often, we come and say, "Well, I've done this, and I've done this, and I've done this, and this colleague got that." Think about what value you have brought to them.
通常，我们会说：“好吧，我已经做到了这个，我已经做到了这个，我已经做到了这个，而这位同事做到了。”想想你给他们带来了什么价值。
So approach it from their perspective, and think about how you can position it so that you are demonstrating your value, again, from their perspective.
因此，从他们的角度来看待它，并思考如何定位它，以便再次从他们的角度展示你的价值。
Matt Abrahams: And you should practice.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：你应该练习。
You should role-play.
你应该进行角色扮演。
Talk to other people.
与其他人交谈。
Say, "I'm thinking of saying this," just so the words come out instead of just thinking in your head what you want to say.
说：“我正在考虑说这个”，这样的话就可以说出来，而不是仅仅在脑子里思考你想说的话。
Andrew Huberman: Several people asked about how best to communicate with people who are not very good at communicating.
Andrew Huberman：有几个人问如何最好地与不擅长沟通的人沟通。
Matt Abrahams: That's a hard one.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：这很难。
I would encourage people to lead with questions.
我鼓励人们用问题来引导。
Draw the other person out.
把对方拉出来。
Often, if you can get them talking about something that's important to them or connected to what you want, then you can engage in that conversation.
通常，如果您能让他们谈论对他们来说很重要或与您想要的内容相关的事情，那么您就可以参与该对话。
So again, it's pre-work, it's thinking about what's of value.
再说一遍，这是工作前的事情，要考虑什么是有价值的。
Lead with questions, and then as soon as the person responds, give them space to tell more.
以问题引导，一旦对方做出回应，就给他们空间来讲述更多内容。
My mother-in-law had a black belt in small talk.
我的婆婆闲聊是黑带。
She was amazing.
她太棒了。
She was from the Midwest.
她来自中西部。
Matt Abrahams: Every time she'd fly out to visit, she'd come off the plane with three new best friends, and her secret, and you mentioned this earlier, were three words: Tell me more.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：每次她飞出去拜访时，她都会和三个新的最好的朋友一起下飞机，而她的秘密，你之前提到的，就是三个字：告诉我更多。
Once somebody answers a question, give them that space to say more, and that really draws them out and gives you some ideas of what's important to them, so you can latch on and talk about it more.
一旦有人回答了问题，给他们空间说更多，这确实能吸引他们的注意力，并让你了解对他们来说重要的事情，这样你就可以抓住并更多地谈论它。
So, lead with questions, give space for more communication.
因此，以问题引导，为更多的沟通留出空间。
That's how you draw somebody who might be reticent or not comfortable speaking.
这就是你如何画出一个沉默寡言或不善于说话的人。
Andrew Huberman: Do you ever recommend people memorize speeches?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你曾经建议人们背诵演讲吗？
Matt Abrahams: Never.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：从来没有。
There are times where I recommend being very familiar with how you start.
有时我建议您非常熟悉如何开始。
The point where people are most nervous about speaking is about 30 seconds before, and about a minute into what they're doing.
人们对讲话最紧张的时刻是在他们正在做的事情开始前大约 30 秒以及开始后大约一分钟。
So, you can be very familiar, but the reason memorizing is so bad is it burdens your cognitive load.
所以，你可以非常熟悉，但记忆力如此糟糕的原因是它加重了你的认知负担。
You've created the right way to say it, and you're constantly comparing what you wanted to say to what you're actually saying.
你已经创造了正确的表达方式，并且不断将你想说的话与你实际所说的话进行比较。
Matt Abrahams: So having a roadmap, having a structure, and having some familiarity with some ideas are important.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：因此，制定路线图、制定结构并熟悉某些想法非常重要。
If there are certain words that you really want to get across or certain data, have a note card, read it.
如果您确实想了解某些单词或某些数据，请准备一张记事卡并阅读它。
I'd rather you do that than put the cognitive burden on yourself of memorizing.
我宁愿你这样做，也不愿把记忆的认知负担加在自己身上。
Andrew Huberman: We talked a little bit about this earlier, but maybe we can just recap and add anything that you want to the question that's very common here, which is, how to reduce pre-talk anxiety.
Andrew Huberman：我们之前对此进行了一些讨论，但也许我们可以回顾一下，并在此处非常常见的问题中添加您想要的任何内容，即如何减少演讲前的焦虑。
Matt Abrahams: Mm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And it could be public speaking, or it could be one-on-one communication.
Andrew Huberman：这可以是公开演讲，也可以是一对一的沟通。
Matt Abrahams: We could talk a lot about this, and when you were on my show, Andrew, we talked about some of the biological things you can do.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我们可以就此讨论很多，安德鲁，当你参加我的节目时，我们讨论了你可以做的一些生物学事情。
When it comes to managing anxiety, you have to manage both symptoms and sources.
在管理焦虑方面，您必须同时管理症状和来源。
The symptoms are the things you physiologically experience.
症状是您生理上经历的事情。
You have shared great advice on breathing, et cetera.
您分享了有关呼吸等方面的很好的建议。
I'll give one example: When I get really nervous, I perspire and blush.
我举一个例子：当我非常紧张时，我会出汗、脸红。
A great way to manage that is to cool yourself down.
解决这个问题的一个好方法就是让自己冷静下来。
The reason you're perspiring and blushing is your heart rate's going up, your body's tensing up.
你出汗和脸红的原因是你的心率加快，你的身体紧张。
It's like when you exercise.
就像你运动时一样。
The palms of your hand are thermoregulators for your body.
手掌是身体的温度调节器。
Matt Abrahams: Anybody who's ever held warm coffee or tea on a cold morning has felt themselves warm up.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯（Matt Abrahams）：任何在寒冷的早晨喝过热咖啡或茶的人都会感到自己暖和起来。
I will always hold something cold before I speak, and it helps cool me down.
在说话之前我总是会拿着一些冷的东西，这有助于让我冷静下来。
Andrew Huberman: Mm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
Matt Abrahams: I blush and perspire less.
马特·亚伯拉罕：我脸红，出汗也少了。
So there are things we can do to manage physical symptoms.
因此，我们可以采取一些措施来控制身体症状。
The breathwork that you talk about is really helpful.
你所说的呼吸练习确实很有帮助。
But we also have to think about sources, the things that initiate and exacerbate our anxiety.
但我们也必须考虑根源，即引发和加剧我们焦虑的因素。
I'll give one example.
我举一个例子。
Many of us are made nervous by the goal that we have.
我们中的许多人都因我们的目标而感到紧张。
I advocate for having a goal when you communicate, but sometimes that goal makes us nervous.
我主张沟通时要有一个目标，但有时这个目标会让我们紧张。
Matt Abrahams: My students are afraid they're not going to get a good grade.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：我的学生担心他们不会取得好成绩。
The entrepreneurs I coach are afraid they're not going to get funding.
我指导的企业家担心他们无法获得资金。
The people listening might be afraid their boss isn't going to support their idea.
倾听的人可能担心他们的老板不会支持他们的想法。
So we're made nervous by a potential negative future outcome.
因此，我们对未来潜在的负面结果感到紧张。
So, the way to counteract that is to become present-oriented.
因此，解决这个问题的方法就是变得以当下为导向。
Lots of ways to do that.
有很多方法可以做到这一点。
You can do deep breathing, you can walk around the building, have a conversation with somebody.
你可以深呼吸，你可以在大楼里走动，与某人交谈。
I tell people, "Do what athletes do.
我告诉人们，“做运动员所做的事。
Listen to a song or a playlist that helps you get focused."
听一首有助于你集中注意力的歌曲或播放列表。”
Matt Abrahams: Start at 100 and count backward by a challenging number.
Matt Abrahams：从 100 开始，倒数一个具有挑战性的数字。
Like, try seventeens.
比如，尝试十七岁。
Really helps to focus and be present-oriented.
确实有助于集中注意力并注重当下。
My favorite way, and this is going to sound really silly, I like to say tongue twisters out loud.
我最喜欢的方式是，这听起来真的很傻，我喜欢大声说绕口令。
You can't say a tongue twister right and not be present-oriented, and it warms up your voice.
你不可能在说绕口令时不注重当下，这会让你的声音变得温暖。
It's an opportunity to warm up.
这是一个热身的机会。
So before I ever do any of my podcast interviews or a big talk, I will say a tongue twister out loud three times fast, and it gets me present and warms me up.
因此，在我进行任何播客采访或大型演讲之前，我会快速大声说三遍绕口令，这会让我保持专注并让我感到温暖。
Matt Abrahams: So, to manage anxiety, you have to manage symptoms and some of the things that initiate and exacerbate.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：所以，为了控制焦虑，你必须控制症状以及一些引发和加剧的事情。
There are a whole bunch of those, and if you do it, you begin to create for yourself an anxiety management plan, and you can invoke that plan.
有很多这样的方法，如果你这样做了，你就开始为自己制定一个焦虑管理计划，并且你可以调用该计划。
And actually, just having that plan helps reduce the anxiety you have.
事实上，制定这个计划就有助于减少你的焦虑。
The very first thing we do in my strategic communication class is we have our students create an anxiety management plan.
我们在战略沟通课上做的第一件事就是让学生制定焦虑管理计划。
Matt Abrahams: And not only does it help them in the course.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：这不仅对他们的课程有帮助。
I have students years later say, "My grandmother passed away.
多年后，我的学生们说：“我的祖母去世了。
I used the anxiety management plan to help with the eulogy," or, "I'm doing a best man toast, and I'm using it." Giving yourself tools to help manage anxiety is one of the biggest gifts you can give to yourself.
我使用焦虑管理计划来帮助悼词，”或者，“我正在做伴郎祝酒，我正在使用它。”为自己提供帮助管理焦虑的工具是您可以送给自己的最大礼物之一。
Andrew Huberman: Fantastic.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
Matt Abrahams: Mm.
马特·亚伯拉罕：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: These are incredible bits and, frankly, entire meals of advice for people.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：这些都是令人难以置信的建议，坦率地说，是为人们提供的全部建议。
Public communication and just one-on-one communication and everything in between is so important, and people really carry around a lot of fear and anxiety about them, but you've given us a ton of practical tools, and I know these are time-tested, and there are data on many of them.
公共沟通和一对一的沟通以及介于两者之间的一切都非常重要，人们确实对它们抱有很多恐惧和焦虑，但你给了我们大量实用的工具，我知道这些工具是经过时间考验的，并且其中许多都有数据。
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
马特·亚伯拉罕斯：嗯嗯。
Matt Abrahams: Yes.
马特·亚伯拉罕：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And the real-world data are really what count the most.
Andrew Huberman：现实世界的数据确实是最重要的。
Matt Abrahams: Right.
马特·亚伯拉罕：对。
Andrew Huberman: So I want to thank you for coming here today to share them with us, also for the books that you've written.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以我要感谢您今天来到这里与我们分享这些内容，还有您写的书。
We'll put links to those in the show note captions, and that you continue to get out there and on here as a public educator.
我们将在节目注释标题中添加指向这些内容的链接，并且您将继续作为公共教育者走出去。
There are many people and books talking about these topics, but you've clearly thrown yourself into these as the guy who's really tackling them for the greater good.
有很多人和书在谈论这些话题，但你显然已经投入到这些话题中，作为一个真正为了更大的利益而解决这些问题的人。
Andrew Huberman: So, I really appreciate the breadth and specificity of what you've shared, and I know everyone else will as well, and I know that they're going to apply them.
Andrew Huberman：所以，我真的很欣赏你分享的内容的广度和特殊性，我知道其他人也会如此，而且我知道他们会应用它们。
So, my goal was to do this outro without saying "um" once.
所以，我的目标是在完成这个结尾时一次不说“嗯”。
I guess I just said "um."
我想我只是说了“嗯”。
Matt Abrahams: You did it well.
马特·亚伯拉罕：你做得很好。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Very fluent.
非常流利。
Andrew Huberman: Come back again.
安德鲁·休伯曼：再回来吧。
Matt Abrahams: I'd love to.
马特·亚伯拉罕：我很愿意。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Andrew Huberman: Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Matt Abrahams.
Andrew Huberman：感谢您参加今天与 Matt Abrahams 的讨论。
To learn more about his work and to find links to the various resources we discussed, please see the show note caption.
要了解有关他的工作的更多信息并查找我们讨论的各种资源的链接，请参阅节目注释标题。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the Follow button on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请通过单击 Spotify 和 Apple 上的“关注”按钮来关注播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review, and you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您可以给我们留下五星级的评论，现在您可以在 Spotify 和 Apple 上给我们留下评论。
Andrew Huberman: Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
Andrew Huberman：另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast, guests, or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客、嘉宾或您希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑的主题有意见，请将这些内容放在 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body."
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。
Andrew Huberman: This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience, and it covers protocols for everything from sleep, to exercise, to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
Andrew Huberman：这是一本我花了五年多时间编写的书，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验，涵盖了从睡眠、锻炼、压力控制、与注意力和动机相关的各个方面的方案，当然，我还为所包含的方案提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There, you can find links to various vendors.
在那里，您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Andrew Huberman: Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." And if you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
安德鲁·休伯曼：同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 hubermanlab。
So that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客上的信息不同。
Again, it's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
再说一遍，所有社交媒体平台上都是 hubermanlab。
Andrew Huberman: And if you haven't already subscribed to our "Neural Network Newsletter," the "Neural Network Newsletter" is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries, as well as what we call protocols in the form of one to three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep, how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
Andrew Huberman：如果您还没有订阅我们的“神经网络时事通讯”，那么“神经网络时事通讯”是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要，以及我们所说的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议，涵盖从如何优化睡眠、如何优化多巴胺、故意冷暴露等所有内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training.
我们有一个基本的健身方案，涵盖心血管训练和阻力训练。
All of that is available completely zero cost.
所有这些都是完全零成本可用的。
Andrew Huberman: You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the Menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to Newsletter, and enter your email.
Andrew Huberman：您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的“菜单”选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯，然后输入您的电子邮件即可。
And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Matt Abrahams.
再次感谢您参加今天与马特·亚伯拉罕斯的讨论。
And last, but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但同样重要的是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。