Science of Social Bonding in Family, Friendship & Romantic Love

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

Today's episode is about the biology, psychology, and practices of social bonding.

今天的节目是关于社会联系的生物学、心理学和实践的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

From the day we are born until the day we die, the quality of our social bonds dictates much of our quality of life.

从我们出生的那一天到我们死亡的那一天，我们的社会纽带的质量在很大程度上决定了我们的生活质量。

It should therefore be no surprise that our brain, and indeed much of our entire nervous system, is wired for social bonds.

因此，我们的大脑，甚至整个神经系统的大部分，都与社会联系紧密相连，也就不足为奇了。

Now, social bonds occur between infant and parent.

现在，婴儿和父母之间出现了社会纽带。

There are even particular wiring diagrams within the brain and spinal cord and body that are oriented towards the specific bonds that occur between infant and mother, as well as infant and father.

大脑、脊髓和身体内甚至存在特定的接线图，这些接线图针对婴儿和母亲以及婴儿和父亲之间发生的特定联系。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And we have specific brain circuitries for friendship, specific brain circuitries that are activated in romantic relationships.

我们有用于友谊的特定大脑回路，在浪漫关系中被激活的特定大脑回路。

And, as it goes, specific brain circuitries that are activated when we break up with a romantic partner, or when they break up with us, or when somebody passes away, moves away or otherwise leaves our lives in one form or another.

而且，当我们与恋人分手，或者当他们与我们分手，或者当某人去世、搬走或以其他方式离开我们的生活时，特定的大脑回路就会被激活。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Today we are going to talk about those brain and nervous system circuitries.

今天我们要讨论的是大脑和神经系统电路。

We are also going to talk about the neurochemicals and hormones that underlie their function, and we are going to touch on a number of important and actionable tools that you can apply in everyday life.

我们还将讨论构成其功能的神经化学物质和激素，并且我们将讨论一些可以在日常生活中应用的重要且可操作的工具。

And because we are headed into the holiday, the New Year's and Christmas holiday, that you can deploy in your various interactions with family members and friends.

因为我们即将进入假期、新年和圣诞节假期，所以您可以在与家人和朋友的各种互动中进行部署。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And should you not be spending time with family members and friends, today we are also going to talk about how to achieve social bonds out of the context of family and romantic partnership and friendship.

如果您不花时间与家人和朋友在一起，今天我们还将讨论如何在家庭、浪漫伙伴关系和友谊的背景下建立社会纽带。

So, today's episode is going to include a lot of science, a lot of actionable tools, and I'm confident that you will come away from today's episode with tremendous knowledge about how you function.

所以，今天的节目将包括大量的科学知识、大量可操作的工具，我相信您在看完今天的节目后会对自己的运作方式有大量的了解。

For instance, if you're an introvert or an extrovert, why is that?

例如，如果你是一个内向的人或一个外向的人，为什么会这样？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Turns out there may be a neurochemical basis for that.

事实证明，这可能有神经化学基础。

Maybe you're somebody that really enjoys social media, maybe you're somebody that doesn't.

也许您是真正喜欢社交媒体的人，也许您是不喜欢社交媒体的人。

Today I'm going to talk about a gene or a set of genes that predicts whether or not you will follow more people, or seek out more online social interactions or fewer.

今天我要谈谈一个或一组基因，它可以预测你是否会关注更多的人，或者寻求更多或更少的在线社交互动。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Believe it or not, there's biology around that now and it's excellent peer-reviewed work.

不管你相信与否，现在生物学已经围绕这个问题展开了，而且这是经过同行评审的优秀作品。

We will also talk about how bonds are broken and why breakups can be so painful, not just romantic breakups but breakups of friendships and coworkers, and how to move through those more seamlessly.

我们还将讨论纽带是如何破裂的，为什么分手会如此痛苦，不仅仅是浪漫的分手，还有友谊和同事的分手，以及如何更顺利地度过这些。

So, regardless of your age and regardless of whether or not you are in a romantic partnership of one form or another or not, I do believe this episode will be useful to you as you explore the social bonds that already exist in your life and as you seek out new and changing social bonds.

因此，无论您的年龄如何，也无论您是否处于某种形式的浪漫伴侣关系中，我确实相信，当您探索生活中已经存在的社会纽带以及寻找新的、不断变化的社会纽带时，这一集对您很有用。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is however part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。

In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Let's talk about the biology of social bonding, and I want to point out that I use the word "bonding" intentionally.

让我们谈谈社会联系的生物学，我想指出我故意使用“联系”这个词。

It's a verb.

这是一个动词。

And in biology, we want to think about verbs because everything in biology is a process, it's not an event.

在生物学中，我们想要考虑动词，因为生物学中的一切都是一个过程，而不是一个事件。

And when we think about things in biology as a process, that means it's going to have multiple steps.

当我们将生物学中的事物视为一个过程时，这意味着它将有多个步骤。

And today we are going to explore the steps, start to finish, of social bonding, meaning how social bonds are established, how they are maintained, how they are broken, and how they are reestablished.

今天我们将探讨社会联系的各个步骤，即社会联系如何建立、如何维持、如何打破以及如何重建。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now an important feature of biology generally, but in particular as it relates to social bonding, is that the neural circuits, meaning the brain areas and neurons and the hormones, things like oxytocin, which we'll talk about today, and the other chemicals in the brain and body that are responsible for the process we call social bonding, are not unique to particular social bonds.

现在，生物学的一个重要特征，特别是与社会联系相关的一个重要特征是，神经回路，即大脑区域、神经元和激素，比如我们今天要讨论的催产素，以及大脑和身体中负责我们所谓的社会联系过程的其他化学物质，并不是特定社会联系所独有的。

They are generic.

它们是通用的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What I mean by that is that the same brain circuits that are responsible for establishing a bond between parent and child are actually repurposed in romantic relationships.

我的意思是，负责在父母和孩子之间建立联系的大脑回路实际上在浪漫关系中被重新利用。

Now this might not come as a surprise to many of you.

现在，这对你们中的许多人来说可能并不感到惊讶。

Many of you are probably familiar with this idea of securely attached people versus anxious attached people versus avoidant attached people.

你们中的许多人可能都熟悉安全型依恋者与焦虑型依恋者与回避型依恋者的概念。

We're going to touch on that a little bit, but all of that has roots in whether or not children and parents formed healthy social bonds, or whether or not they had challenged social bonds.

我们将稍微触及这一点，但所有这些都根源于孩子和父母是否形成了健康的社会纽带，或者他们是否挑战了社会纽带。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now it's clear from the scientific and psychological literature that just because you might have had a not-so-great or even terrible social bond with a parent or with some other caretaker or loved one as a child, that doesn't fate you to have poor social bonds as an adult.

现在，从科学和心理学文献中可以清楚地看出，仅仅因为你在童年时与父母、其他看护者或亲人之间的社会关系可能不太好，甚至很糟糕，这并不意味着你在成年后就会有不良的社会关系。

There's a lot of plasticity in the system, meaning it can change, it can rewire in response to experience.

系统有很多可塑性，这意味着它可以改变，可以根据经验重新连接。

And as we will soon discover, there are specific components within the neural circuits of your brain that are responsible for social bonding, that allow you to place subjective labels on why you are doing certain things and to rewire the neural circuits for social bonding.

我们很快就会发现，大脑的神经回路中有一些特定的成分负责社会联系，它们可以让你为自己为什么要做某些事情贴上主观标签，并重新连接神经回路以实现社会联系。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, we're going to touch on all of that today.

所以，我们今天将讨论所有这些。

But the important feature really to point out is that we don't have 12 different circuits in the brain and body for different types of social bonds.

但真正需要指出的重要特征是，我们的大脑和身体中并没有 12 种不同的回路来处理不同类型的社会纽带。

We have one, and there's some universal features that underlie all forms of social bonds.

我们有一个，并且所有形式的社会纽带都具有一些普遍特征。

So, we're going to start by exploring what those neural circuits are, and then we are going to see how they plug into different types of social bonds.

因此，我们将首先探索这些神经回路是什么，然后我们将了解它们如何插入不同类型的社会纽带。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then we are going to explore things like in introversion, extroversion.

然后我们将探索内向、外向等事物。

We're even going to touch on a little bit about things like trauma bonds, healthy bonds, and various other aspects of how humans can bond to one another.

我们甚至会涉及一些关于创伤纽带、健康纽带以及人类如何相互联系的其他各个方面的事情。

And, as you'll soon discover, there is a unique chemical signature of all bonding of all kinds, and you're going to learn how to modulate that chemical signature.

而且，您很快就会发现，所有类型的键合都有独特的化学特征，您将学习如何调节该化学特征。

Before we talk about social bonding, I want to talk about its mirror image, which is lack of social bonding or social isolation.

在我们谈论社会联系之前，我想谈谈它的镜像，即缺乏社会联系或社会孤立。

Now, for better or for worse, there is a tremendous literature on the biology of social isolation and all of the terrible things that happen when animals or humans are socially isolated at particular phases of life.

现在，无论好坏，有大量关于社会孤立生物学的文献，以及动物或人类在生命的特定阶段被社会孤立时发生的所有可怕的事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, for those of you that are introverts, you are not necessarily damaging yourself by deciding to spend less time with other people.

现在，对于那些性格内向的人来说，决定减少与他人相处的时间并不一定会损害自己。

Many people like time alone.

许多人喜欢独处的时间。

I personally am an introvert.

我个人是一个内向的人。

I get a thrill out of spending time with one or two close friends, but I enjoy a lot of time by myself.

与一两个亲密的朋友共度时光让我感到兴奋，但我也享受很多独处的时间。

I like to socialize, so I wouldn't call myself an extreme introvert, but I know there's some extreme introverts out there.

我喜欢社交，所以我不会称自己为极端内向的人，但我知道外面有一些极端内向的人。

But when we talk about social isolation, what we're referring to is when animals or humans are restricted from having the social contacts that they would prefer to have.

但当我们谈论社会隔离时，我们指的是动物或人类被限制进行他们想要的社会接触。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And to just briefly touch on the major takeaways from this literature, which spans back a hundred years or more, being socially isolated is stressful.

简单地谈谈这些可以追溯到一百年前或更久以前的文献的主要要点，社会孤立是有压力的。

And one of the hallmark features of social isolation is chronically elevated stress hormones, like adrenaline, also called epinephrine; like cortisol, a stress hormone that at healthy levels is good for combating inflammation, helps us have energy early in the day, focus throughout the day.

社会孤立的标志之一是压力荷尔蒙长期升高，例如肾上腺素，也称为肾上腺素；就像皮质醇一样，它是一种压力荷尔蒙，在健康水平下有助于对抗炎症，帮助我们在一天的早些时候充满活力，全天集中注意力。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But if cortisol is elevated for too long, which is the consequence of social isolation, the immune system suffers and other chemicals start to be released in the brain and body that are designed to motivate the organism, animal or human, to seek out social bonds.

但是，如果皮质醇升高的时间太长（这是社会孤立的结果），免疫系统就会受到影响，大脑和身体中就会开始释放其他化学物质，这些化学物质旨在激励生物体（动物或人类）寻求社会联系。

An example of one such chemical is a peptide called tachykinin.

此类化学物质的一个例子是一种称为速激肽的肽。

Tachykinin is present in flies, in mice and in humans, and under conditions of social isolation, its levels go up.

速激肽存在于苍蝇、小鼠和人类体内，在社会隔离的条件下，其水平会上升。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And because of the brain areas that contain receptors for tachykinin, people start feeling very aggressive and irritable after social isolation.

由于大脑区域含有速激肽受体，人们在社会隔离后开始感到非常有攻击性和易怒。

Now, that should be a little bit counterintuitive to you.

现在，这对你来说应该有点违反直觉。

You would think if you isolate an animal or human and then you give them the opportunity for social interaction, they should behave very well.

你可能会认为，如果你隔离动物或人类，然后给他们社交互动的机会，他们应该表现得很好。

They should be thrilled.

他们应该感到兴奋。

They're finally getting the nourishment, the social nourishment that they've been lacking for so long.

他们终于得到了营养，他们长期以来一直缺乏的社会营养。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It turns out that's not the case.

事实证明并非如此。

Chronic social isolation changes the nature of the brain and body such that it makes social connection harder, and it makes the person who's been isolated irritable, even aggressive with other people.

长期的社会孤立会改变大脑和身体的性质，使社会联系变得更加困难，并使被孤立的人变得烦躁，甚至对其他人具有攻击性。

Now, I don't want to go too deeply into the biology of social isolation, because it doesn't actually afford us that much insight into what healthy social bonding looks like.

现在，我不想太深入地探讨社会孤立的生物学原理，因为它实际上并不能让我们深入了解健康的社会联系是什么样的。

So, today we're going to focus more on the functional biology, dual meaning of the word "functional," as opposed to the pathology of social isolation.

因此，今天我们将更多地关注功能生物学，即“功能”一词的双重含义，而不是社会孤立的病理学。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

However, I do want to point out that social isolation starts to deteriorate certain aspects of brain and body pretty quickly, but how quickly depends again on how introverted or extroverted somebody is.

然而，我确实想指出，社会隔离很快就会开始使大脑和身体的某些方面恶化，但恶化的速度又取决于一个人的内向或外向程度。

So, if you're somebody who's socially isolated for the holidays or has been socially isolated for a period of time and is craving social contact, that is a healthy craving.

所以，如果你是一个在假期与社会隔离的人，或者已经与社会隔离一段时间并且渴望社交接触的人，那么这是一种健康的渴望。

And as we'll learn next, the healthy craving for social contact has a very specific brain circuit, has a very specific neurochemical signature associated with it, and has some remarkable features that you can leverage in social contacts of all kinds.

正如我们接下来将了解到的，对社交接触的健康渴望具有非常特定的大脑回路，具有与之相关的非常特定的神经化学特征，并且具有一些可以在各种社交接触中利用的显着特征。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I think some of the more important and exciting work on social bonding comes from the laboratory of Kay Tye.

我认为一些关于社会联系的更重要和令人兴奋的工作来自 Kay Tye 的实验室。

Kay is a professor at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies, she's an investigator with the Howard Hughes Medical Institute.

凯是索尔克生物研究所的教授，也是霍华德休斯医学研究所的研究员。

And in recent years, I would say in about the last five or six years, her laboratory has made a fundamental discovery as to why we seek out and put so much effort into social bonds.

近年来，我想说的是在过去的五六年里，她的实验室已经有了一个根本性的发现，解释了为什么我们会寻求并为社会纽带投入如此多的努力。

And the key discovery that she made is that, much like hunger, much like temperature, much like thirst, we have brain circuits that are devoted to what's called a social homeostasis.

她的关键发现是，就像饥饿、温度、口渴一样，我们的大脑回路致力于所谓的社会稳态。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Many of you have probably heard about homeostasis before.

你们中的许多人以前可能听说过体内平衡。

Homeostasis is the characteristic of various biological circuits and even individual cells to try and maintain a certain level.

稳态是各种生物回路甚至单个细胞试图维持一定水平的特征。

It's most easily thought of in the context of hunger.

在饥饿的背景下最容易想到它。

If you don't eat for a while, your drive to pursue food and think about food and make food and spend money on food, and indeed to enjoy food, goes up.

如果你有一段时间不吃东西，你追求食物、思考食物、制作食物、花钱买食物以及享受食物的动力就会增强。

Whereas when you're well-fed, you don't tend to seek out food with as much vigor or as much intensity; you wouldn't invest as much time, effort, money, et cetera.

然而，当你吃得饱饱的时候，你就不会那么有活力或那么强烈地去寻找食物；你不会投入那么多的时间、精力、金钱等等。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, homeostasis is the aspect of cells, tissues, and organisms to seek some sort of balance to regulate themselves.

因此，体内平衡是细胞、组织和生物体寻求某种平衡来调节自身的方面。

In a crude way you can think about the thermostat on your home as a homeostatic circuit.

粗略地说，您可以将家里的恒温器视为稳态电路。

When the temperature goes up a little bit, it cools things down to maintain a certain temperature.

当温度稍微升高时，它会冷却物体以保持一定的温度。

When the room gets cold, it hits a certain level and a sensor detects that, it clicks on, and then the heat goes on to maintain a certain set temperature.

当房间变冷时，温度达到一定水平，传感器检测到这一点，它会发出咔嗒声，然后继续加热以保持一定的设定温度。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, that's a simple way of thinking about homeostasis.

所以，这是一种思考体内平衡的简单方法。

Every homeostatic circuit has three components, or at least three.

每个稳态电路都具有三个或至少三个组件。

One is a detector, meaning the organism or the thermostat on your wall has to have some way of detecting what's going on in the environment, in the context of social bonding, whether or not you are interacting with others and whether or not those interactions are going well.

一种是探测器，这意味着你墙上的生物体或恒温器必须有某种方式来探测环境中、在社会联系的背景下发生的事情，无论你是否与他人互动，以及这些互动是否进展顺利。

So, that has to be detected.

所以，必须检测到这一点。

That's the first thing.

这是第一件事。

Then there has to be a control center.

那么就必须有一个控制中心。

That's the second thing.

这是第二件事。

And the control center is the one that makes the adjustments to, in the case of social bonding, to your behavior and to your psychology.

在社会联系的情况下，控制中心负责对你的行为和心理进行调整。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, you'll soon learn that there are ways in which the more time that you spend alone, the more motivated you are to seek out the pictures of faces, the interactions with actual people, physical contact and so forth.

所以，你很快就会发现，你独处的时间越多，你就越有动力去寻找面孔照片、与真实的人的互动、身体接触等等。

Now that might seem obvious to you, but thanks to the work of Kay Tye and others, it's remarkable to learn that there are specific brain centers that are adjusting our psychology and biology so that we seek out bonds more aggressively, or maybe we don't, because we are perfectly sated or satiated with respect to how much contact we've had with other people.

这对你来说似乎是显而易见的，但由于凯·泰和其他人的工作，值得注意的是，有特定的大脑中心正在调整我们的心理和生物学，以便我们更积极地寻找联系，或者也许我们不会，因为我们对与他人的接触程度感到完全满意或满足。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, the third component of this homeostatic circuit is the effector.

现在，该稳态电路的第三个组件是效应器。

The effector is actually what drives the behavioral response.

效应器实际上是驱动行为反应的因素。

It's what leads you to pick up your social media and start scrolling.

它会引导您拿起社交媒体并开始滚动。

It's what leads you to text a friend.

这会引导您给朋友发短信。

It's what leads you to call a friend or make plans, and what leads you to follow through on those plans.

它引导您打电话给朋友或制定计划，并引导您执行这些计划。

So, again, those three components are a detector, a control center, and an effector.

因此，这三个组件是探测器、控制中心和效应器。

And as you'll soon learn, the neural circuit that controls this social homeostasis actually has a fourth component, and that fourth component is one that places subjective understanding as to why you are doing what you are doing and establishes your place in a hierarchy.

正如你很快就会了解到的，控制这种社会稳态的神经回路实际上有第四个组成部分，而第四个组成部分是对你为什么要做你正在做的事情的主观理解，并在层次结构中建立你的位置。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now I know the word hierarchy can be a little bit of a barbed wire one, because people immediately start thinking about boss and subordinate, or in couples, a leader and a follower.

现在我知道等级制度这个词可能有点像铁丝网，因为人们立即开始思考老板和下属，或者一对夫妇，一个领导者和一个追随者。

But when we talk about social hierarchies in the context of human interactions, social hierarchies are very plastic, meaning in one setting, one person can be the leader.

但是，当我们在人类互动的背景下谈论社会等级制度时，社会等级制度是非常可塑的，这意味着在一种环境下，一个人可以成为领导者。

In another setting, the other person can be the leader.

在另一种情况下，另一个人可以成为领导者。

You probably have groups of friends or family members where you're constantly passing the baton as to who's going to drive, who's going to navigate, who's going to pick the restaurant, who's going to clear the dishes, and who's going to do certain activities and not others.

你可能有一群朋友或家人，你不断地传递接力棒，决定谁来开车、谁来导航、谁来挑选餐厅、谁来清理碗碟、以及谁来进行某些活动而不是其他活动。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, hierarchies are very dynamic, and as a consequence, social bonding has to be very plastic and very fluid so that you move from one environment to the next.

因此，等级制度是非常动态的，因此，社会联系必须具有很强的可塑性和流动性，这样你才能从一种环境转移到另一种环境。

Even with the same people, you have to be able to make those adjustments.

即使是同一个人，你也必须能够做出这些调整。

And in the case of the social homeostasis circuit, those adjustments are made by a particular brain structure I've talked about on this podcast before, it's called the prefrontal cortex.

就社会稳态回路而言，这些调整是由我之前在这个播客中讨论过的特定大脑结构进行的，它被称为前额皮质。

It is the seat of our higher consciousness, if you will.

如果你愿意的话，它是我们更高意识的所在地。

It's what allows us to place subjective labels on things so we are not strictly input, output, we are not robotic.

它让我们能够给事物贴上主观标签，这样我们就不是严格的输入、输出，我们不是机器人。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Meaning if you go to dinner with a friend and they are exceptional at choosing restaurants, well, in the context of this social homeostasis circuit, your prefrontal cortex would allow them to pick the restaurant because basically they are dominant over you in their capacity to pick good restaurants, at least in this example.

这意味着，如果你和朋友一起去吃饭，而他们在选择餐厅方面表现出色，那么，在这种社会稳态循环的背景下，你的前额叶皮层将允许他们选择餐厅，因为基本上他们在选择好餐厅的能力上比你占主导地位，至少在这个例子中是这样。

Whereas as you leave that restaurant, and perhaps you are navigating to where to get a drink after dinner or where to walk through the city, perhaps you have the better sense of direction.

当您离开那家餐厅时，也许您正在导航到晚餐后去哪里喝一杯或去哪里漫步穿过城市，也许您有更好的方向感。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so then the social bonding has to be maintained as you switch the hierarchy.

因此，当你切换等级制度时，必须保持社会联系。

So, that's the role of that fourth element, the prefrontal cortex.

这就是第四个元素——前额皮质的作用。

Now, I just briefly want to touch on some of the brain areas that, thanks to the work of Kay Tye and others, we now know underlie the detection, control and response.

现在，我只想简单地谈谈一些大脑区域，由于 Kay Tye 和其他人的工作，我们现在知道这些区域是检测、控制和响应的基础。

I call them the detector, control center and effector.

我称它们为探测器、控制中心和效应器。

Because inside of that description isn't just a bunch of names of neural structures, there are also hints as to what the underlying neurochemicals are.

因为该描述中不仅仅是一堆神经结构的名称，还暗示了潜在的神经化学物质是什么。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And by understanding what the neurochemicals are, you can start to think about tools that you can use to form social bonds and maintain social bonds in better, healthier ways.

通过了解神经化学物质是什么，您可以开始思考可以用来形成社会纽带并以更好、更健康的方式维持社会纽带的工具。

So, let's talk about the detector first.

那么，我们先来谈谈探测器。

Now, keep in mind that you have your senses: you have your vision, you have your hearing, you have touch, you have smell, you have taste.

现在，请记住，您有自己的感官：您有视觉，您有听觉，您有触觉，您有嗅觉，您有味觉。

Sensation, as I've talked about many times before in the podcast, but I'll just remind you, sensation is the conversion of physical stimuli in the environment into electrical and chemical signals in your nervous system.

感觉，正如我之前在播客中多次谈到的那样，但我只是提醒您，感觉是将环境中的物理刺激转化为神经系统中的电信号和化学信号。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The language of the nervous system is electrical and chemical signals.

神经系统的语言是电信号和化学信号。

So, photons of light are converted to electrical and chemical signals.

因此，光的光子被转换为电信号和化学信号。

Pressure on the skin or light touch on the skin is converted into electrical and chemical signals, and so on and so forth.

皮肤上的压力或皮肤上的轻触被转换成电信号和化学信号，等等。

So, all of that, of course, is flowing into the nervous system.

所以，所有这些当然都会流入神经系统。

But the detector that underlies social homeostasis involves mainly two structures.

但社会稳态的探测器主要涉及两种结构。

One is called the ACC, the anterior cingulate cortex, and the other is the BLA, basolateral amygdala.

一个称为 ACC（前扣带皮层），另一个称为 BLA（基底外侧杏仁核）。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And when you hear the word amygdala, you're probably thinking fear.

当你听到杏仁核这个词时，你可能会想到恐惧。

But today, as you'll see, the amygdala actually has many different subcompartments and components, and there's a reason why the basolateral amygdala, which is associated with certain aspects of aversive behaviors, meaning moving away from certain types of things or interactions, there's a reason why the BLA is such an integral part of the detector system, and that's because just as it's important to form healthy social bonds, it's vitally important to try and avoid unhealthy social bonds.

但今天，正如你所看到的，杏仁核实际上有许多不同的子区和组件，基底外侧杏仁核与厌恶行为的某些方面相关，意味着远离某些类型的事物或互动，而 BLA 是探测器系统不可或缺的一部分，这是有原因的，因为就像形成健康的社会纽带很重要一样，尝试避免不健康的行为也至关重要。社会纽带。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so the basolateral amygdala is mainly associated with these aversive-type responses of just moving away from certain things.

因此，基底外侧杏仁核主要与远离某些事物的厌恶型反应有关。

The control center in the social homeostasis circuit involves a brain area called the lateral hypothalamus and the periventricular hypothalamus.

社会稳态回路中的控制中心涉及称为外侧下丘脑和室周下丘脑的大脑区域。

The lateral hypothalamus and the periventricular hypothalamus contain neurons that are able to access the hormone system in order to influence the release of things like oxytocin, which is a hormone neuropeptide.

下丘脑外侧和室周下丘脑含有能够进入激素系统的神经元，以影响催产素（一种激素神经肽）等物质的释放。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's part hormone, part neurotransmitter.

它部分是激素，部分是神经递质。

It's kind of a hybrid.

这是一种混合体。

We're going to talk a lot about oxytocin today.

今天我们要谈谈催产素。

So, we've got the ACC and the BLA.

所以，我们有 ACC 和 BLA。

These are our areas that are mainly involved in moving away from things, although also toward them — that's the detector.

这些是我们主要涉及远离事物的区域，但也涉及到它们——这就是探测器。

Then we've got the control center, which is in the hypothalamus.

然后我们有控制中心，位于下丘脑。

And then there's a very special and important area associated with social bonding that I want everyone to learn, which is the dorsal raphe nucleus, or DRN.

然后，我希望每个人都了解一个与社会联系相关的非常特殊且重要的领域，即中缝背核（DRN）。

Dorsal raphe nucleus.

中缝背核。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The dorsal raphe nucleus is a small collection of neurons in the midbrain, so it's deep in the brain, and most of the time when you hear about raphe, R-A-P-H-E, by the way, raphe nucleus, you're talking about serotonin.

中缝背核是中脑中一小部分神经元的集合，所以它位于大脑深处，大多数时候当你听到中缝核，R-A-P-H-E，顺便说一句，中缝核，你谈论的是血清素。

Serotonin is a neuromodulator that is often associated with feelings of satiety after eating, warmth, basically satisfaction with things that you already have.

血清素是一种神经调节剂，通常与饭后的饱腹感、温暖感以及对已有事物的基本满足感相关。

However, within this dorsal raphe nucleus, there is a small subset of neurons that release dopamine.

然而，在中缝背核内，有一小部分神经元释放多巴胺。

Dopamine is a neuromodulator most often associated with movement, craving, motivation and desire.

多巴胺是一种神经调节剂，通常与运动、渴望、动机和欲望相关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And the neurocircuits that are rich with dopamine are things like the substantia nigra, the mesolimbic dopamine system, the VTA, the nucleus accumbens, et cetera.

富含多巴胺的神经回路有黑质、中脑边缘多巴胺系统、VTA、伏隔核等。

Those names don't have to mean anything to you.

这些名字对你来说不一定有任何意义。

However, this unique population of dopamine neurons in the raphe is truly unique in that it's responsible for mediating what I've been calling social homeostasis.

然而，中缝中这种独特的多巴胺神经元群确实是独一无二的，因为它负责调节我所说的社会稳态。

It is the effector or the response that mediates social homeostasis.

它是调节社会稳态的效应器或反应。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, I haven't told you exactly what social homeostasis is.

现在，我还没有告诉你到底什么是社会稳态。

Social homeostasis, just like hunger, is the process by which when you lack social interaction, you start to crave it.

社会稳态，就像饥饿一样，是当你缺乏社交互动时，你开始渴望社交互动的过程。

What's very interesting about the fact that there are dopamine neurons in this raphe structure, that is the effector for social homeostasis, is that what this means is that when you are not interacting with people at a frequency or intensity that is right for you, dopamine is released into the brain.

非常有趣的是，这个中缝结构中存在多巴胺神经元，即社会稳态的效应器，这意味着当你没有以适合你的频率或强度与人互动时，多巴胺会释放到大脑中。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In most popular conversations about dopamine, and even in scientific circles, when you hear dopamine release, you think about reward or feeling good because, indeed, many behaviors and drugs of abuse increase dopamine.

在有关多巴胺的最流行的对话中，甚至在科学界，当您听到多巴胺释放时，您会想到奖励或感觉良好，因为事实上，许多行为和滥用药物都会增加多巴胺。

It's one of the reasons they have so much addictive potential.

这是它们具有如此大的成瘾潜力的原因之一。

However, dopamine is not associated with feeling good.

然而，多巴胺与感觉良好无关。

It is actually the neurochemical that's responsible for movement toward things that feel good.

实际上，神经化学物质负责朝着感觉良好的事物运动。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So to zoom out and conceptualize what we have here, we have a brain area that is a detector that either will move us toward or away from certain types of experiences or sensations.

因此，为了缩小并概念化我们这里所拥有的东西，我们有一个大脑区域，它是一个探测器，可以让我们接近或远离某些类型的体验或感觉。

We have a control center that is going to release certain hormones and neuropeptides into our brain and blood, depending on the sorts of interactions that we happen to be having.

我们有一个控制中心，它将根据我们碰巧发生的相互作用的类型，将某些激素和神经肽释放到我们的大脑和血液中。

And we have this response system, which is the dorsal raphe nucleus that contains dopamine neurons.

我们有这个反应系统，它是含有多巴胺神经元的中缝背核。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And when we are not interacting with people at the frequency or intensity that we crave, dopamine is released, and that dopamine causes us to seek out social interactions of particular kinds.

当我们没有以我们渴望的频率或强度与人互动时，多巴胺就会被释放，而多巴胺会促使我们寻找特定类型的社交互动。

So, let's talk about what social homeostasis is and how it plays out.

那么，让我们来谈谈什么是社会稳态以及它是如何发挥作用的。

And again, let's use hunger as an example.

让我们再次以饥饿为例。

So, let's say you're a person who eats every three or four hours regularly.

假设您是一个每隔三四个小时吃一次饭的人。

So, on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, you're just accustomed to eating every three or four hours.

所以，在周一、周二、周三、周四，你就习惯了每三四个小时吃一次东西。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If just suddenly I steal your meal out of the fridge at work, something I would not do, but just for sake of mental experimentation, that would probably cause you to go and seek out food through some other route.

如果我在工作时突然从冰箱里偷你的饭菜，我不会这样做，但只是为了进行心理实验，这可能会导致你通过其他途径去寻找食物。

You might buy food, you'd probably be upset first, but then you'd go buy food or replace the food that you were going to eat.

你可能会买食物，一开始你可能会感到不安，但随后你会去买食物或更换你要吃的食物。

You'd be hungry for that food.

你会很饿的。

And indeed, there are hormonal-type mechanisms and other mechanisms that when we eat regularly and we predict that food is coming in, we actually start secreting insulin, which is for mobilizing blood sugar.

事实上，存在激素型机制和其他机制，当我们定期进食并预测食物即将进入时，我们实际上开始分泌胰岛素，这是为了调动血糖。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There are hormones in the bloodstream that make us hungry on a regular clocklike schedule, and you would seek out more food.

血液中的荷尔蒙会让我们有规律地感到饥饿，你会寻找更多的食物。

Similarly, if you're somebody who is accustomed to a lot of social interaction, and suddenly I take away that social interaction, you would feel kind of let down.

同样，如果你是一个习惯了很多社交互动的人，突然我取消了这种社交互动，你会感到有点失望。

You would crave a replacement social interaction.

你会渴望一种替代性的社交互动。

You might be upset that you had a lunch date with a friend, you're used to having lunch with them every Wednesday, and they cancel and you would crave the interaction.

您可能会因为与朋友共进午餐而感到不安，您习惯于每周三与他们共进午餐，而他们取消了，而您会渴望互动。

This is called a prosocial craving.

这就是所谓的亲社会渴望。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And indeed, this is what you see in animals and humans.

事实上，这就是你在动物和人类身上看到的。

If you, what's called acutely isolate them, which is just a fancy scientific word of saying deprive them of social interactions on a short-term basis, they start engaging in prosocial behaviors.

如果你，所谓的“严重孤立”他们，这只是一个奇特的科学术语，意思是在短期内剥夺他们的社交互动，他们就会开始从事亲社会行为。

They start texting other people, they start seeking out social interactions of different kinds.

他们开始给其他人发短信，开始寻找不同类型的社交互动。

And that makes perfect sense, right?

这很有道理，对吧？

But thought of from the different side, you could also imagine how if you're getting a social interaction with somebody on a daily or weekly basis and suddenly you remove that interaction, well, then people might not care.

但从不同的角度考虑，你也可以想象，如果你每天或每周与某人进行社交互动，然后突然取消这种互动，那么人们可能不会在意。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

They might just think, "Well, I'll get the interaction tomorrow, or the next day, or the next day," because they're sated, much in the same way that the person who eats very regularly might say, "Well, I ate four hours ago, and I'll eat eight hours later, no big deal." But that's not what happens.

他们可能只是想，“好吧，我明天、后天或后天就会得到互动”，因为他们已经满足了，就像经常吃饭的人可能会说，“好吧，我四个小时前吃过饭，八小时后我会吃东西，没什么大不了的。”但事实并非如此。

There's a prediction that we are going to have certain types of interactions, and when those interactions don't happen, we replace that lack of interaction with a drive and a motivation to seek out social interaction.

有人预测我们将进行某些类型的互动，当这些互动没有发生时，我们就会用寻求社交互动的动力和动机来取代互动的缺乏。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And that drive in motivation is caused by or, I should say, is driven by dopamine release from that dorsal raphe.

这种动机的驱动力是由中缝背侧释放的多巴胺引起的，或者，我应该说，是由中缝背侧释放的多巴胺驱动的。

And so the takeaway is that when we lack social interaction that we expect, we become prosocial.

所以结论是，当我们缺乏我们所期望的社交互动时，我们就会变得亲社会。

However, if we are chronically socially isolated, meaning we don't have interactions with people for a long time, we become actually more introverted.

然而，如果我们长期处于社会孤立状态，也就是说我们很长时间没有与人互动，我们实际上会变得更加内向。

This is separate from all of the tachykinin stuff that I talked about earlier, or falling into states of chronic stress, but it's well-established now that in humans and in animals, if you don't give them enough social interaction, they actually become antisocial.

这与我之前谈到的所有速激肽物质或陷入慢性压力状态不同，但现在已经确定的是，在人类和动物中，如果你不给他们足够的社交互动，他们实际上会变得反社会。

And so this is actually a little bit like what one might see with long-term fasting.

所以这实际上有点像长期禁食时可能看到的情况。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I gave the example of eating every four hours.

我举了每四个小时吃一次的例子。

Now let's give the parallel example of somebody who's been fasting perhaps for two or three days.

现在让我们举一个类似的例子，某人已经禁食了两三天。

If they're expecting to eat and then the meal doesn't arrive, they are not necessarily going to immediately try and seek out food.

如果他们想要吃饭，但饭菜没有送来，他们不一定会立即尝试寻找食物。

And that's a little bit counterintuitive.

这有点违反直觉。

You would've thought, "Well, they haven't eaten in a very long time, they're going to be very motivated to seek out food," but no, they are accustomed to fasting.

你可能会想，“好吧，他们已经很长时间没有吃东西了，他们会非常有动力去寻找食物，”但事实并非如此，他们已经习惯了禁食。

Similarly, the social homeostasis circuit works in a way such that when we don't have social interactions for a very long time, we start to lose our craving for social interactions.

同样，社会稳态回路的工作方式是，当我们很长时间没有社交互动时，我们就会开始失去对社交互动的渴望。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Let's look at the social homeostasis circuit through the lens of what's commonly called introversion and extroversion.

让我们从通常所说的内向性和外向性的角度来看看社会稳态回路。

Now, typically when we hear about introverts, we think about the quiet person at the party, or the person that doesn't want to go out at all.

现在，通常当我们听到内向的人时，我们会想到聚会上安静的人，或者根本不想出去的人。

And we think about an extrovert as somebody who's really social, the so-called social butterfly, who enjoys social interactions, that's really chatty, is kind of life-of-the-part-type person.

我们认为外向的人是真正善于社交的人，即所谓的社交蝴蝶，他们喜欢社交互动，非常健谈，是一种生活中的角色类型的人。

That's the cliche, or the pop psychology cliche.

这是陈词滥调，或者是流行心理学的陈词滥调。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But actually, in the psychology literature, that's not really the way it holds up.

但实际上，在心理学文献中，事实并非如此。

Many people who appear introverted are actually extroverted.

许多看似内向的人实际上是外向的。

The quiet person at a party could be an extrovert, except that they just don't talk very much.

聚会上安静的人可能是一个外向的人，只不过他们不太说话。

The characteristic of an extrovert is somebody that gets energy or feels good from social interactions.

外向的人的特点是从社交互动中获得能量或感觉良好。

They sort of get a lift, and we can predict that that lift occurs because of some release of dopamine within their brain and body.

他们在某种程度上得到了提升，我们可以预测这种提升的发生是因为他们的大脑和身体内释放了一些多巴胺。

And indeed, there's evidence for that.

事实上，有证据表明这一点。

Neuroimaging studies support that, other forms of biological analysis support that as well.

神经影像学研究支持这一点，其他形式的生物分析也支持这一点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We can also imagine that the person who's talking a lot is somebody who's very extroverted, but oftentimes people who talk a lot for their work, or there's somebody who's very social when you interact with them, that person gets back to their car and is absolutely depleted and exhausted by that interaction, or all sorts of social interactions.

我们还可以想象，说话很多的人是一个非常外向的人，但通常是因为工作而说话很多的人，或者当你与他们互动时，有一个非常社交的人，那个人回到他们的车里，因为这种互动或各种社交互动而绝对精疲力尽。

So, we really can't predict whether or not somebody is an introvert or an extrovert simply based on their behavior.

所以，我们真的不能仅仅根据一个人的行为来预测他是内向还是外向。

It's really more of an internal, subjective label.

它实际上更多的是一个内部的、主观的标签。

However, if we look at introversion and extroversion through this lens of the social homeostatic setpoint, and we think about dopamine as this molecule that drives motivation to seek out social interactions, what we can reasonably assume is that introverts are people that when they engage in certain forms of social interaction, either the amount of dopamine that's released is greater than it is in an extrovert, that's right, I said greater than it is in an extrovert, and so they actually feel quite motivated, but also satisfied by very brief, or we could say sparse, social interactions.

然而，如果我们通过社会稳态设定点的视角来看待内向和外向，并且我们将多巴胺视为驱动动机寻求社交互动的分子，我们可以合理地假设内向的人是这样的人，当他们参与某些形式的社交互动时，释放的多巴胺量大于外向的人，是的，我说比外向的人多，所以他们实际上感觉很有动力，但也满足于非常简短的，或者我们可以说稀疏的社交互动。

They don't need a lot of social engagement to feel sated.

他们不需要太多的社交活动就能感到满足。

Again, the parallel example would be hunger.

同样，类似的例子是饥饿。

This would be somebody who doesn't need to eat much in order to feel satisfied, whereas the extrovert, we can reasonably assume, releases less dopamine in response to an individual social interaction, and so they need much more social interaction in order to feel filled up by that interaction.

这些人不需要吃太多就能感到满足，而我们可以合理地假设，外向的人在个体社交互动中释放的多巴胺较少，因此他们需要更多的社交互动才能通过这种互动感到充实。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And indeed, this is supported by the neurobiological imaging studies.

事实上，这得到了神经生物学成像研究的支持。

So, rather than thinking about introverts and extroverts as chatty versus quiet, it's useful to think about people, maybe yourself, maybe other people you know, as how much social interaction they need in order to bring this social homeostasis into balance.

因此，与其将内向者和外向者视为健谈与安静，不如考虑一下人们（也许是你自己，也许是你认识的其他人），他们需要多少社交互动才能使这种社会稳态达到平衡。

Now there's the fourth component of this social homeostasis circuit that I mentioned before, and that's the prefrontal cortex.

现在有我之前提到的社会稳态回路的第四个组成部分，那就是前额皮质。

The prefrontal cortex is involved in thinking and planning and action, and it has extensive connections with areas of the brain like the hypothalamus, which is responsible for a lot of motivated drives.

前额叶皮层参与思考、计划和行动，它与下丘脑等大脑区域有着广泛的联系，下丘脑负责许多积极的驱动力。

It also has connections with the various reward centers of the brain, and it can act as an accelerator, meaning it can encourage more electrical activity of other brain centers, or as a brake on those brain centers.

它还与大脑的各个奖励中心有联系，它可以充当加速器，这意味着它可以鼓励其他大脑中心进行更多的电活动，或者充当这些大脑中心的制动器。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

A really good example, it's kind of a trivial one in the context of today's discussion, but it's a concrete one so I'll use it, would be I know many people out there use cold showers as a way to stimulate metabolism and build up resilience, and this sort of thing.

一个非常好的例子，在今天讨论的背景下，这是一个微不足道的例子，但它是一个具体的例子，所以我会使用它，我知道很多人使用冷水淋浴作为刺激新陈代谢和增强弹性的一种方式，诸如此类的事情。

If you get into a very cold shower and you feel as if you want to get out, but you force yourself to stay in, you're forcing yourself to stay in because your prefrontal cortex is placing some subjective label on that experience.

如果你洗了个很冷的澡，感觉好像想出去，但你强迫自己呆在里面，那么你就是在强迫自己呆在里面，因为你的前额叶皮层给这种经历贴上了一些主观标签。

Either you're doing it for a certain benefit, or you've got a timer and you're using the timer as the regulator of how long you're going to stay in.

要么你这样做是为了某种利益，要么你有一个计时器，并且你使用计时器作为你要呆在里面多长时间的调节器。

Basically, you're overriding reflexes, and that's the main function of the prefrontal cortex.

基本上，你正在超越反射，这是前额皮质的主要功能。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But as I mentioned earlier, the prefrontal cortex components that wire into the social homeostasis circuit are responsible for evaluating where you are in a given hierarchy, and that affords you a ton of flexibility in terms of the types of social interactions that you can engage in and whether or not you're going to spend time with certain people or not, whether or not you're going to engage and then disengage.

但正如我之前提到的，连接到社会稳态回路的前额叶皮层组件负责评估你在给定层次中的位置，这为你可以参与的社交互动类型、是否要与某些人共度时光、是否要参与然后脱离等方面提供了很大的灵活性。

What do I mean by this?

我这是什么意思？

Well, let's say you're an extroverted person, you're somebody that likes a lot of social interaction, and you get a lot of dopamine release, on whole, from a lot of social interaction.

好吧，假设你是一个外向的人，你是一个喜欢大量社交互动的人，并且总的来说，你从大量社交互动中释放了大量的多巴胺。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, maybe one interaction with a teller at the supermarket isn't really going to give you much dopamine, but going to a party will give you more dopamine, and so you seek out these larger social interactions.

所以，也许在超市与柜员的一次互动并不会真正给你带来太多的多巴胺，但参加聚会会给你更多的多巴胺，所以你会寻求这些更大的社交互动。

However, you might go to a party where somebody says something, or you see somebody there that you'd much prefer not to see, and therefore you decide to leave.

然而，你可能会去参加一个聚会，有人说了些什么，或者你在那里看到了你不愿意见到的人，因此你决定离开。

The deciding to leave is regulated by that prefrontal cortex component.

离开的决定是由前额皮质部分调节的。

So, it's important to understand that just because there's a homeostatic circuit that involves areas like the amygdala and the hypothalamus and these deep brain regions like the dorsal raphe, as a human being you have flexibility over your social interactions, and that flexibility arrives from those prefrontal circuits.

因此，重要的是要理解，仅仅因为存在一个涉及杏仁核和下丘脑等区域以及中缝背侧等大脑深层区域的稳态回路，作为一个人，您在社交互动中具有灵活性，而这种灵活性来自这些前额叶回路。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, there's a ton of subjective nature to it.

所以，它有很多主观性。

There's a lot of context to it.

这有很多背景。

So, while there are some predictable elements of these circuits, they are not simply what we would call plug and chug.

因此，虽然这些电路有一些可预测的元素，但它们不仅仅是我们所说的即插即用。

You have flexibility.

你有灵活性。

You are able to say, "I love parties, but I really don't want to go to that party because so and so is there." Or, "I very much don't like going across town in traffic, but I'm going to do it today because a certain collection of people or perhaps a certain individual will be at that particular party."

你可以说：“我喜欢聚会，但我真的不想去那个聚会，因为那里有某某。”或者，“我非常不喜欢在交通中穿过城镇，但我今天会这样做，因为某个人或某个人会参加那个特定的聚会。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so the prefrontal cortex, again, is what allows you that subjective ruling or ruling over what would otherwise just be reflexes.

因此，前额叶皮层再次让你能够对本来只是反射的事物进行主观统治或统治。

So, now I'd like to drill a little bit deeper into this incredible neural structure that is the dorsal raphe nucleus and this small collection of neurons, the dopamine neurons of the dorsal raphe, because while it's a small collection, they are very powerful.

所以，现在我想更深入地研究这个令人难以置信的神经结构，即中缝背核和这一小群神经元，即中缝背侧的多巴胺神经元，因为虽然它是一个小集合，但它们非常强大。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Loneliness has been defined by the great psychologist John Cacioppo as the distress that results from discrepancies between ideal and perceived social relationships.

伟大的心理学家约翰·卡西奥波将孤独定义为由于理想的社会关系与感知的社会关系之间的差异而产生的痛苦。

Let me repeat that.

让我重复一遍。

Loneliness is not just being isolated.

孤独不仅仅是被孤立。

Loneliness, as he defines it, is the distress that results from discrepancies between ideal and perceived social relationships.

正如他所定义的，孤独是由于理想的社会关系与感知的社会关系之间的差异而产生的痛苦。

It's when we expect things to be one way and they're actually another way, and which way we expect them to be and which way they turn out again is highly subjective.

当我们期望事情是这样的，而它们实际上是另一种方式时，我们期望它们是哪种方式以及它们再次变成哪种方式是非常主观的。

What you expect from friendships and what other people expect from friendships could be entirely different.

你对友谊的期望和其他人对友谊的期望可能完全不同。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But the circuit that underlies friendship bonding is exactly the same, and it is this dorsal raphe nucleus and the dopamine neurons in that nucleus that underlie the bond that is social friendship and all types of social bonds.

但构成友谊纽带的回路是完全相同的，正是中缝背核和该核中的多巴胺神经元构成了社会友谊和所有类型的社会纽带的纽带。

There's a key finding in the literature.

文献中有一个重要发现。

The title of this paper is "Dorsal raphe dopamine neurons represent the experience of social isolation." This is a paper from Kay Tye's lab.

这篇论文的标题是“中缝背侧多巴胺神经元代表社会孤立的经历”。这是 Kay Tye 实验室的论文。

The first author is Matthews, Gillian Matthews, to be specific.

第一作者具体来说是马修斯，吉莉安·马修斯。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What they did is they were able to selectively activate the dopamine neurons in the dorsal raphe nucleus, and when they did that, they induced a loneliness-like state.

他们所做的是能够选择性地激活中缝背核中的多巴胺神经元，当他们这样做时，他们诱导了一种类似孤独的状态。

Now, how did they know it was a loneliness-like state?

那么，他们怎么知道这是一种类似孤独的状态呢？

They knew because it motivated the seeking out of social connections.

他们知道，因为这激发了人们寻求社会关系。

This is the kind of social hunger that I was referring to before.

这就是我之前提到的那种社会饥饿。

Whereas when the dopamine neurons of the dorsal raphe are inhibited, meaning their activity is quieted, that suppressed a loneliness state.

而当中缝背侧的多巴胺神经元受到抑制时，意味着它们的活动安静下来，就会抑制孤独状态。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, that's a little counterintuitive, right?

那么，这有点违反直觉，对吧？

It's a group of neurons that when activated makes you feel lonely.

这是一组神经元，当被激活时会让你感到孤独。

And when this brain area is not activated, it suppresses loneliness.

当这个大脑区域没有被激活时，它就会抑制孤独感。

But if you think about it, that's exactly the kind of circuit that you would want in order to drive social behavior.

但如果你仔细想想，这正是你想要的驱动社会行为的电路。

When you're feeling lonely, dopamine is released and it causes you to go out and seek social interactions.

当你感到孤独时，多巴胺就会被释放，它会让你出去寻求社交互动。

When this brain area has enough social interactions — it's sort of a figure of speech, brain areas don't have enough social interactions — but when enough social interactions have happened that the neurons in this brain area shut down their production of dopamine, well, the loneliness state turns off.

当这个大脑区域有足够的社交互动时——这有点比喻，大脑区域没有足够的社交互动——但是当发生足够的社交互动时，这个大脑区域的神经元就会停止产生多巴胺，孤独状态就会关闭。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, what we think of as loneliness, as this big dark cloud or fog in our psychological landscape, boils down to a very small set of neurons releasing a specific neurochemical for motivation.

因此，我们所认为的孤独，就像我们心理景观中的大乌云或迷雾，可以归结为一小部分神经元释放一种特定的神经化学物质来获得动力。

And to me this really changes the way that we think about loneliness and that we think about social interactions.

对我来说，这确实改变了我们思考孤独和社交互动的方式。

There's so much subjective landscape to loneliness and to social interactions.

孤独和社交互动有很多主观因素。

But at the end of the day, what it really is is that we are all social animals to some extent or another, and we all crave social interactions to some extent or another, although the extent will vary depending on where you are in the introversion-extroversion continuum, and it is indeed a continuum.

但归根结底，事实是，我们在某种程度上都是社会性动物，我们都渴望在某种程度上进行社会互动，尽管程度会根据你在内向-外向连续体中的位置而有所不同，而它确实是一个连续体。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, the other aspect of the study that was really important gets back to that issue of hierarchy and social rank.

现在，这项研究真正重要的另一个方面又回到了等级制度和社会等级的问题。

What they found is that depending on where you see yourself in the social rank, the dopamine neurons in the raphe will lead to one consequence or another, meaning moving toward social interactions or moving away from them.

他们发现，根据你对自己的社会地位的看法，中缝中的多巴胺神经元会导致一种或另一种后果，这意味着走向社会互动或远离社会互动。

So, the whole system is set up so that you have a ton of flexibility and control over social interactions.

因此，整个系统的设置是为了让您对社交互动拥有大量的灵活性和控制力。

So, just a couple of key points and actionable takeaways based on the information I've offered up until now.

因此，根据我迄今为止提供的信息，仅介绍几个要点和可操作的要点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If you think of yourself as an introvert, it's very likely that you get a lot of dopamine from a few or minimal social interactions.

如果您认为自己是一个内向的人，那么您很可能从几次或很少的社交互动中获得大量的多巴胺。

Whereas if you're an extrovert, contrary to what you might think, social interactions are not going to flood your system with dopamine.

然而，如果你是一个外向的人，与你想象的相反，社交互动不会让你的系统充满多巴胺。

They actually are going to lead to less dopamine release than it would for an introvert, and therefore you're going to need a lot more social interactions in order to feel filled up by those interactions.

实际上，与内向的人相比，它们会导致多巴胺释放更少，因此您将需要更多的社交互动，才能因这些互动而感到充实。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, I've been drawing a lot of parallels between this social seeking or avoiding social isolation and hunger, but is that really the case?

现在，我已经在这种社会寻求或避免社会孤立与饥饿之间进行了很多相似之处，但事实真的是这样吗？

And could it be that there are actually interactions between the different drives?

不同驱动器之间是否真的存在相互作用？

Meaning could social isolation or the desire to seek out social interactions actually relate to the hunger system and vice versa?

这意味着社会孤立或寻求社会互动的愿望实际上与饥饿系统有关，反之亦然吗？

And indeed the answer is yes.

事实上，答案是肯定的。

We don't have 50 different homeostatic systems and 50 different neurochemicals to underlie our drive to eat, our drive for romantic interactions, our drive for friendship interactions.

我们没有 50 种不同的稳态系统和 50 种不同的神经化学物质来支撑我们的饮食动力、浪漫互动的动力、友谊互动的动力。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We have essentially one, maybe two, and they all funnel into the same dopamine system.

我们基本上有一个，也许两个，它们都流入同一个多巴胺系统。

And there's a beautiful paper that illustrates some of the crossover between these different homeostatic drives.

有一篇漂亮的论文阐述了这些不同的稳态驱动之间的一些交叉。

The title of the paper is, "Acute social isolation evokes midbrain craving responses similar to hunger." This is from Rebecca Saxe's lab at MIT, Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

论文的标题是：“急性社会孤立会引起中脑类似于饥饿的渴望反应。”这是来自麻省理工学院 MIT 的 Rebecca Saxe 实验室。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Dr. Kay Tye is also an author on this paper.

Kay Tye 博士也是这篇论文的作者之一。

The paper was published in Nature Neuroscience.

该论文发表在《自然神经科学》杂志上。

It's a really terrific paper.

这真是一篇很棒的论文。

Just to briefly summarize what they did, they took people that were categorized as socially connected, healthy human adults.

为了简要总结他们所做的事情，他们选择了那些被归类为有社会联系的健康成年人。

So, these are people that are used to pretty frequent social interactions, and they socially isolated them for about 10 hours, and they had no opportunity to access social media, email, fiction reading even, and certainly didn't have the opportunity to interact with people face to face.

所以，这些人习惯了相当频繁的社交互动，他们将他们社交隔离了大约10个小时，他们没有机会访问社交媒体、电子邮件、甚至小说阅读，当然也没有机会与人面对面互动。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, what this did is it increased social craving, both subjectively, the people said that they were now craving social interactions, and then they did brain imaging in response to images of people, people interacting, food, flowers, other types of stimuli; some of the stimuli — or these images that we call them stimuli, but they're images really — had a lot of social engagement going on in them, others did not.

所以，这增加了社交渴望，无论是主观上，人们说他们现在渴望社交互动，然后他们根据人的图像、人们互动、食物、鲜花和其他类型的刺激进行大脑成像；一些刺激——或者这些我们称之为刺激的图像，但它们确实是图像——其中有很多社交参与，而另一些则没有。

Some had a lot of faces showing, others did not.

有些人有很多面孔露面，有些则没有。

And as you might suspect, there was activation of many of the brain areas that we've talked about earlier, dorsal raphe nucleus and other brain areas associated with dopaminergic neurons, when the socially isolated people viewed social cues, people interacting, faces, and so on, and less so for things like flowers.

正如你可能怀疑的那样，当社交孤立的人看到社交线索、人们互动、面孔等时，我们之前讨论过的许多大脑区域、中缝背核和其他与多巴胺能神经元相关的大脑区域都会被激活，而当看到花朵之类的东西时，这种情况则较少。

However, they also had increased responses to images of food, which is interesting and actually is consistent with the literature that when people are socially isolated, they often will start eating more, or they will change the nature of the foods that they eat.

然而，他们对食物图像的反应也有所增加，这很有趣，实际上与文献一致，即当人们在社会上孤立时，他们通常会开始吃得更多，或者他们会改变所吃食物的性质。

Now we think of that as comfort foods or soothing oneself through eating rather than social interaction, as a kind of pathology.

现在我们认为这是安慰食物或通过饮食而不是社交互动来安慰自己，作为一种病态。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But while it might not be healthy, depending on the context and the person, it's really important to understand that the reason that happens is because we have a common circuit and that the system, meaning the person, is actually craving dopamine release.

但是，虽然这可能不健康，具体取决于环境和人，但真正重要的是要了解发生这种情况的原因是因为我们有一个共同的回路，并且系统（即人）实际上渴望释放多巴胺。

They don't consciously know this.

他们不自觉地知道这一点。

This is all subconsciously carried out, but they're craving dopamine release, and if they can't get it from social interactions as they normally would, they'll start seeking it from food.

这一切都是在潜意识中进行的，但他们渴望释放多巴胺，如果他们不能像平常那样从社交互动中获得多巴胺，他们就会开始从食物中寻找。

Now, they did an important reverse experiment, as well, where they had subjects go on 10 hours of food fasting.

现在，他们还做了一项重要的反向实验，让受试者进行 10 小时的禁食。

Now, these were not people that were familiar with fasting, they weren't doing intermittent fasting, they were eating more typical meal schedules, and so that created increased hunger, et cetera, but it also increased their appetite, if you will, for social interactions.

现在，这些人并不熟悉禁食，他们没有进行间歇性禁食，他们吃的是更典型的膳食计划，因此增加了饥饿感，等等，但如果你愿意的话，这也增加了他们对社交互动的食欲。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so the important point here is that there's a common biology, there's a common circuitry that underlies homeostatic craving of things that maintain us as individuals and as a species, and it really places social interactions as right up there in the list of things that we could consider so vital for our survival and for our health.

所以这里重要的一点是，有一个共同的生物学，有一个共同的电路，它是对维持我们作为个体和物种的事物的稳态渴望的基础，它确实将社会互动放在我们认为对我们的生存和健康至关重要的事物列表中。

Things like food, water, social interactions sit within a top tier amongst each other, and they use the same common circuitry, dorsal raphe dopamine neurons, in addition to other structures in order to create this drive to seek out certain types of stimuli.

食物、水、社交互动等事物位于彼此的顶层，它们使用相同的共同电路、中缝背侧多巴胺神经元以及其他结构来产生这种寻找某些类型刺激的动力。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, this is a very reductionist view of social bonding.

现在，这是一种非常简化的社会联系观点。

I realize that, but it's important to realize that while we place all this subjective context, "Oh, I miss this person," or, "I really would like to avoid that person." At the end of the day, it really all funnels into a system whereby a single neurochemical is either being released and motivating us to seek out more of a particular type of interaction, or is not released and therefore we are perfectly comfortable staying exactly where we are.

我意识到这一点，但重要的是要认识到，当我们放置所有这些主观背景时，“哦，我想念这个人”，或者“我真的想避开那个人”。归根结底，这一切实际上都集中到了一个系统中，在该系统中，一种神经化学物质要么被释放并激励我们寻求更多特定类型的互动，要么不被释放，因此我们非常舒服地呆在原地。

As I say this, some of you are probably thinking, "Oh, that's probably what happens when you fall in love."

当我这么说时，你们中的一些人可能会想，“哦，这可能就是当你坠入爱河时会发生的事情。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And indeed, that's the case.

事实确实如此。

When people enter romantic relationships that to them are very satisfying, there's this period that ...

当人们进入令他们非常满意的恋爱关系时，就会有一段时期......

the theory is that it lasts anywhere from six days to six months, although some people report that this feeling can last many, many years, even decades, of just feeling completely filled up and sated by the experience of being with that person, so much so that cravings for food are reduced, cravings for sleep are reduced.

从理论上讲，这种感觉会持续六天到六个月，尽管有些人报告说，这种感觉可以持续很多年，甚至几十年，只是因为与那个人在一起的经历而感到完全充实和满足，以至于对食物的渴望减少了，对睡眠的渴望也减少了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, there's all sorts of activities and things that go along with new romantic partnerships that take up time, that might get in the way of things like sleep or things like food.

现在，与新的浪漫伙伴关系相关的各种活动和事情都会占用时间，可能会妨碍睡眠或食物等事情。

But the point is that dopamine is the final common pathway by which we seek out things, and we end up feeling as if we are satisfied by certain types of interactions.

但重点是，多巴胺是我们寻找事物的最终共同途径，我们最终会感觉好像对某些类型的互动感到满意。

Now, similarly, if you've ever been isolated for a long period of time, your focus might have shifted to what you're going to eat, what you're going to cook for dinner in a much more heightened way.

现在，类似地，如果你已经被隔离了很长一段时间，你的注意力可能会转移到你要吃什么，你要以更高度的方式做晚餐。

The importance of those sensory stimuli and those types of interactions, and indeed the taste of food itself expands.

这些感官刺激和相互作用的重要性，甚至食物本身的味道都在扩大。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, normally when we are in social relationships that are ones that are familiar to us, we have a balance of these different drives.

因此，通常当我们处于我们熟悉的社会关系中时，我们会在这些不同的驱动力之间取得平衡。

But when one particular drive takes over and we are very focused on it, because they all funnel into the same circuitry, there really isn't the seeking out of certain types of behaviors like food seeking when we're newly in love.

但是，当一种特定的驱动力占据主导地位并且我们非常关注它时，因为它们都汇集到同一个电路中，所以当我们刚恋爱时，实际上不会寻求某些类型的行为，例如寻找食物。

Now, that doesn't mean that food won't taste good to us, so that we don't seek it.

现在，这并不意味着食物对我们来说味道不好，所以我们不会去寻找它。

And indeed there are experiments that have been done where if people have just fallen in love, the taste of a strawberry can just be incredible.

事实上，已经做过一些实验，如果人们刚刚坠入爱河，草莓的味道就会令人难以置信。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The other effect of dopamine is that it changes the way that we interpret sensory stimuli.

多巴胺的另一个作用是它改变了我们解释感官刺激的方式。

Our detectors actually change when we are in heightened states of dopaminergic activity or drive.

当我们处于多巴胺能活动或驱动力的增强状态时，我们的探测器实际上会发生变化。

Basically what this means is that things seem better than they would when we have less dopamine in our system.

基本上，这意味着事情看起来比我们系统中多巴胺较少时要好。

The point here is that there's a lot of crossover, there's a lot of meshing together of different homeostatic drives that they don't exist in separate channels, and it's only under conditions in which one particular homeostatic drive is kind of being played out to the extreme, such as the example of falling in love, that we tend to avoid or overlook the other homeostatic drives, and that's because, simply, we're getting enough dopamine we don't need any more.

这里的要点是，存在很多交叉，不同的稳态驱动力有很多啮合在一起，它们不存在于单独的通道中，只有在一种特定的稳态驱动力发挥到极致的情况下，例如坠入爱河的例子，我们才会倾向于避免或忽视其他稳态驱动力，这是因为，简单地说，我们已经获得了足够的多巴胺，我们不再需要了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Up until now, I've been focused on the organizational logic of social bonding, which is really just nerd-speak for how is it that we form bonds, avoid bonds?

到目前为止，我一直关注社会联系的组织逻辑，这实际上只是书呆子所说的我们如何形成联系、避免联系？

Why do people seek out more or fewer bonds than others, et cetera?

为什么人们会比其他人寻求更多或更少的债券等等？

Now I'd like to shift gears a bit and focus on what are some things that we can do to encourage the formation of healthy bonds?

现在我想稍微改变一下思路，重点讨论我们可以做哪些事情来鼓励形成健康的纽带？

There's a beautiful study that was published in Cell Reports, Cell Press journal, excellent journal.

有一项精彩的研究发表在 Cell Reports 上，Cell Press 杂志，优秀的杂志。

The title of this paper is "Conscious processing of narrative stimuli synchronizes heart rate between individuals."

这篇论文的标题是“叙事刺激的有意识处理使个体之间的心率同步”。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I mentioned this on a previous podcast, but I'd like to mention it again and go into a little bit more depth, because it points to specific actionable items that we can all use in order to enhance the quality and depth of social bonds of all kinds.

我在之前的播客中提到过这一点，但我想再次提及并更深入一些，因为它指出了我们都可以使用的具体可操作项目，以提高各种社会纽带的质量和深度。

Now, this study involved a very simple type of experiment.

现在，这项研究涉及一种非常简单的实验。

They had people listen to a story, everybody in the study listened to the same story, but they listened to that story at different times and indeed in different locations.

他们让人们听一个故事，研究中的每个人都听同一个故事，但他们在不同的时间、不同的地点听这个故事。

So, different people, same story, and they measured things like heart rate, they measured breathing, et cetera.

因此，不同的人，相同的故事，他们测量心率、呼吸等数据。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, what was the motivation for doing this?

现在，这样做的动机是什么？

Well, there's a long-standing literature showing that our physiology, things like our heart rate, our breathing, our skin conductance, meaning the amount of sweating, can be synchronized between individuals, and that synchronization can occur according to a variety of different things.

嗯，有一个长期的文献表明，我们的生理机能，比如心率、呼吸、皮肤电导（即出汗量）可以在个体之间同步，而且这种同步可以根据各种不同的因素而发生。

There have been studies that have people look at one another, and they look and actually see that their pupil size of their eyes starts to synchronize.

有研究让人们互相看着对方，他们看并且实际上看到他们眼睛的瞳孔大小开始同步。

People's breathing can synchronize, people's body temperatures can even start to synchronize, or at least shifts in body temperature can synchronize.

人们的呼吸可以同步，人们的体温甚至可以开始同步，或者至少体温的变化可以同步。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

One person gets cooler, the other person gets cooler.

一个人变得更酷，另一个人也变得更酷。

A lot of this is subconscious.

其中很多都是潜意识的。

Some of it can be detected by conscious cues like flushing of the skin or actually seeing someone's pupils change.

其中一些可以通过有意识的暗示来检测，例如皮肤潮红或实际看到某人的瞳孔变化。

But actually the pupil reflex is a really good example whereby, except for rare cases and certain highly trained individuals, most people can't control their pupil reflexes in a very deliberate way.

但实际上，瞳孔反射是一个很好的例子，除了极少数情况和某些训练有素的个人之外，大多数人无法以非常刻意的方式控制他们的瞳孔反射。

It's truly a reflex.

这确实是一种条件反射。

It's an autonomic reflex.

这是一种自主反射。

So, there's a lot of literature showing that within small groups or two people, these physiological signals can be synchronized.

因此，有大量文献表明，在小组或两个人内，这些生理信号可以同步。

What this study found was that when people listen to the same story, but at different times, their heart rates start to synchronize.

这项研究发现，当人们在不同时间听同一个故事时，他们的心率开始同步。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This is incredible, because people are listening to the story at different times, but the gaps between their heart beats become very stereotyped and map almost precisely onto one another.

这是令人难以置信的，因为人们在不同的时间听这个故事，但他们的心跳之间的间隙变得非常刻板，几乎精确地相互映射。

That's incredible.

那真是难以置信。

Now, we also know from an extensive literature that the quality and perceived depth of a social bond correlates very strongly with how much physiological synchronization there is between individuals.

现在，我们还从大量文献中了解到，社会纽带的质量和感知深度与个体之间的生理同步程度密切相关。

In other words, when your bodies feel the same, you tend to feel more bonded to somebody else.

换句话说，当你们的身体感觉相同时，你往往会感觉与别人的联系更加紧密。

And so this whole thing is a rather circular argument.

所以这整件事是一个相当循环的论证。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

When you feel closer to somebody else, your physiologies synchronize, and the reverse is true as well.

当你感觉与别人更亲近时，你们的生理机能就会同步，反之亦然。

When your physiologies are synchronized, you feel closer to other people.

当你们的生理机能同步时，你会感觉与其他人更亲近。

This is what I call the concert phenomenon.

这就是我所说的音乐会现象。

If you ever go to see your favorite band or you go to a concert that you particularly love, you'll often look over at somebody and you'll see them enjoying the same thing, and they're often in a similar state as you are.

如果你去看你最喜欢的乐队，或者去听你特别喜欢的音乐会，你经常会看到某人，你会看到他们在享受同样的事情，他们往往和你处于相似的状态。

Maybe the favorite song comes on and you actually feel connected to that person.

也许最喜欢的歌曲一响起，你就会真正感受到与那个人的联系。

You feel like obviously there's a shared experience, but there's also a shared physiological response to that experience.

你感觉显然有一种共同的经历，但对这种经历也有一种共同的生理反应。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so this can happen in mass with large groups of people, or it can happen just between two individuals.

因此，这种情况可能会发生在一大群人之间，也可能发生在两个人之间。

And as the study points out, it can actually happen between individuals, without them actually interacting with one another, when the story they are listening to is the anchor or the driver of their physiology.

正如研究指出的那样，当他们正在听的故事是他们生理机能的锚点或驱动力时，这种情况实际上可能发生在个体之间，而无需他们彼此真正互动。

This really points to the fact that the body and the brain are reciprocally connected.

这确实表明身体和大脑是相互联系的。

Yes indeed, what we think, what we hear, what we feel drives our physiology, our heartbeat, our respiration, et cetera.

是的，确实，我们的所想、所闻、所感驱动着我们的生理、心跳、呼吸等等。

But our heartbeat and respiration also are influencing our state of mind.

但我们的心跳和呼吸也会影响我们的精神状态。

And in this case, it's encouraging certain types of social bonds when our heart rates are synchronized.

在这种情况下，当我们的心率同步时，它会鼓励某些类型的社会联系。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You can leverage this.

您可以利用这一点。

How can you leverage this?

您如何利用这一点？

Well, let's take a upcoming example of the holidays.

好吧，让我们以即将到来的假期为例。

There's a joke, I think it was Ram Dass, a Buddhist philosopher-type, that said, "If you think you're enlightened, go visit your parents." And I think what he was referring to is that some people, not all people, have challenging relationships with their parents.

有一个笑话，我想是拉姆·达斯（Ram Dass），一位佛教哲学家，说的：“如果你认为自己开悟了，就去拜访你的父母。”我认为他指的是有些人，而不是所有人，与父母的关系充满挑战。

We're going to talk about child-parent attachment and interactions in a few minutes, but some people have a wonderful relationship to both their parents, and more power to them.

我们将在几分钟内讨论孩子与父母的依恋和互动，但有些人与父母双方都有很好的关系，并且对他们有更多的权力。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I think that's wonderful.

我认为那太好了。

We should all be so lucky.

我们都应该如此幸运。

Many people have challenged relationships with their parents, or they have a great relationship with their parents, but their parents know or they know how to drive that dart right into that particular soft piece of psychological flesh by saying just the slightest thing, or even by raising their eyebrow, or rolling their eyes, or the tone in which they do something.

许多人与父母的关系受到挑战，或者他们与父母的关系很好，但他们的父母知道或他们知道如何通过说一些最轻微的事情，甚至通过扬起眉毛，或翻白眼，或他们做某事的语气，将这种飞镖直接刺入那个特定的柔软的心理肉体。

This is also true between siblings.

兄弟姐妹之间也是如此。

I think many of you can think of examples where this is true.

我想你们很多人都能想到确实如此的例子。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Many people, when they interact with others, expect that the mere interaction with the other person is going to create this sense of bonding.

许多人在与他人互动时，期望仅仅与他人互动就能产生这种联系感。

And often that is the case.

通常情况就是这样。

For instance, if people are involved in intimate disclosure, if people enjoy each other's company so much that just the mere sight of somebody evokes great feelings and it's mutual, that often can happen.

例如，如果人们进行亲密的披露，如果人们非常喜欢彼此的陪伴，以至于仅仅看到某人就会唤起强烈的感情，并且这是相互的，那么这种情况经常会发生。

But in many types of social interactions, it's not the direct interaction with that person that makes us feel close to them, but rather it's shared experience.

但在许多类型的社交互动中，让我们感到亲近的并不是与那个人的直接互动，而是共享的经历。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And shared experience is shared physiology.

共同的经验就是共同的生理学。

That's the point I'm trying to make by way of this study about conscious processing of narrative stimuli synchronizes heart rate of different individuals.

这就是我试图通过这项关于叙事刺激的有意识处理使不同个体的心率同步的研究来阐明的观点。

So, for instance, if you have a somewhat challenged or somewhat, let's call it a slight friction in getting close with somebody, or it can be a challenging interaction, oftentimes it's very useful to focus outward on some other common narrative.

因此，举例来说，如果你在与某人的亲密关系中遇到了一些挑战，或者我们称之为轻微的摩擦，或者这可能是一种具有挑战性的互动，那么通常将注意力集中在其他一些常见的叙述上是非常有用的。

A movie.

一部电影。

Oftentimes people will watch a game together.

人们常常会一起观看比赛。

Actually, there's a lot of critique that people or families will focus outward too much on external events, but these external events can be observing the grandchild and how wonderful they are, or observing the meal and how wonderful it is.

事实上，有很多批评认为人们或家庭会过度关注外部事件，但这些外部事件可以是观察孙子以及他们有多棒，或者观察这顿饭以及它有多棒。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Or, as we commonly see in various traditions, there's a story that's repeated each year, certainly in the upcoming holidays there's Christmas stories, there are themes and traditions, and those themes and traditions anchor a number of different aspects of our psychology.

或者，正如我们在各种传统中常见的那样，每年都会重复一个故事，当然在即将到来的假期中也会有圣诞节故事，有主题和传统，而这些主题和传统锚定了我们心理的许多不同方面。

They're really wonderful.

他们真的很棒。

They thread through the ages really, and allow us to link our own experiences up with previous generations and experiences.

它们确实贯穿了各个时代，让我们能够将自己的经历与前几代人和经历联系起来。

But in addition to that, they synchronize our physiologies.

但除此之外，它们还同步我们的生理机能。

And so sometimes it can be useful rather than expecting others to shift our physiology in the way that we wish, or us shifting their physiologies in the way that we wish and then expecting some bond to mushroom out of that in some beautiful way, to focus on some external stimulus, to focus on something that will synchronize the physiologies of both people.

因此，有时它是有用的，而不是期望别人按照我们希望的方式改变我们的生理机能，或者我们按照我们希望的方式改变他们的生理机能，然后期望某种联系以某种美丽的方式从中涌现出来，专注于一些外部刺激，专注于能够同步双方生理机能的事情。

That can act as a bridge in order to establish social bonds.

这可以充当建立社会纽带的桥梁。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And this is not a hack or a work-around for making terrible relationships good.

这并不是让糟糕的关系变得美好的黑客手段或解决方法。

This is actually at the seat of what we come away from a social interaction with, as feeling, "Wow, that was a really wonderful time." Often a really wonderful time can be by virtue of the specific things that were said, or the specific things that one engaged in.

这实际上是我们在社交互动中感到“哇，那真是一段美妙的时光”的原因。通常，一段真正美好的时光可以通过所说的具体事情或所做的具体事情来实现。

But more often than not, the final common pathway, we should say, of great experiences was a great physiological experience and a shared physiological experience.

但更多时候，我们应该说，伟大经历的最终共同途径是伟大的生理体验和共同的生理体验。

I have a short anecdote that relates to this.

我有一个与此相关的小轶事。

I have an older sibling, and she used to say that when she was in college, the best dates that she ever went on were dates where she was asked to go out and listen to music.

我有一个姐姐，她常说，当她上大学时，她经历过的最好的约会就是邀请她出去听音乐的约会。

She pointed out, however, that oftentimes the guys that would ask her out would take her to jazz clubs.

然而她指出，约她出去的人通常会带她去爵士俱乐部。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

She always had the theory that they would ask her to jazz clubs because at jazz clubs typically you would sit down, and then she had to conclude that they couldn't dance.

她总是有这样的理论：他们会邀请她去爵士俱乐部，因为在爵士俱乐部通常你会坐下来，然后她不得不得出结论，他们不能跳舞。

My sister likes to dance.

我姐姐喜欢跳舞。

And so anytime someone actually had the nerve to take her dancing, those turned out to be particularly, let's just say satisfying dates and relationships.

因此，每当有人真正有勇气带她跳舞时，结果都是特别的，让我们说令人满意的约会和关系。

At least they lasted longer.

至少他们持续的时间更长。

That's all I know about them.

这就是我对他们的全部了解。

That's all I want to know about them, she's my sister after all.

这就是我想知道的关于他们的一切，毕竟她是我的妹妹。

But the theory behind whoever was asking her out on these dates was the right one, which is that if you want to bond with somebody, you create a common physiological response through a common and shared experience.

但无论是谁在这些约会中约她出去，背后的理论都是正确的，那就是如果你想与某人建立联系，你就可以通过共同的、共同的经历创造出共同的生理反应。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And that is often a good entryway into establishing whether or not, it's always a question, whether or not there can be common physiological experience between two individuals.

这通常是一个很好的切入点，可以确定两个人之间是否存在共同的生理体验，这始终是一个问题。

Up until now we've been talking about social bonding through the lens of neural circuits that are already established.

到目前为止，我们一直通过已经建立的神经回路来讨论社会联系。

However, early in the episode I mentioned that these very neural circuits that are responsible for social bonding in adult forms of attachment, be it romantic, or friendship, or otherwise, are actually established during development.

然而，在本集的早期，我提到，这些负责成人依恋形式的社会联系的神经回路，无论是浪漫的、友谊的还是其他的，实际上是在发育过程中建立的。

One of the more important, and I think exciting, areas of early attachment as it relates to adult attachment, comes to us from the work of Allan Schore.

艾伦·肖尔 (Allan Schore) 的工作为我们提供了与成人依恋相关的更重要且我认为令人兴奋的早期依恋领域之一。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Allan Schore, spelled A-L-L-A-N, Schore, S-C-H-O-R-E, is a psychoanalyst who also has deep understanding of neurobiology of attachment, both in childhood and in adulthood.

艾伦·肖尔（Allan Schore），拼写为 A-L-L-A-N，Schore，S-C-H-O-R-E，是一位精神分析师，对童年和成年时期的依恋神经生物学也有深刻的理解。

And he's focused a lot on differences between right brain and left brain forms of attachment.

他非常关注右脑和左脑依恋形式之间的差异。

Now, in a early episode of the Huberman Lab podcast, I touched into the fact that most of what's discussed in the general public and sort of pop psychology, and even in some neurobiology courses, about right brain versus left brain and one side of the brain being more emotional and the other side being more rational, is completely wrong.

现在，在休伯曼实验室播客的前一集中，我谈到了这样一个事实：公众和流行心理学中，甚至在一些神经生物学课程中讨论的大部分关于右脑与左脑以及大脑的一侧更情绪化而另一侧更理性的讨论都是完全错误的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Most of what I see out there is actually backwards to the way things actually work.

我所看到的大部分内容实际上都与事物实际运作的方式相反。

And while there is some, what we call, lateralization of function, meaning certain brain functions are handled by neurons on one side of the brain or the other, the idea that one side of your brain is emotional and the other side of your brain is rational is just simply not true.

虽然存在一些我们所说的功能偏侧化，这意味着某些大脑功能是由大脑一侧或另一侧的神经元处理的，但大脑的一侧是情感的，而大脑的另一侧是理性的这种想法根本不正确。

However, the work of Allan Schore points to some very concrete neural circuits that do have a lateralization bias, meaning they are more right brain than left brain, or more left brain than right brain, that underlies certain forms of attachment between child and parent, in particular child and mother.

然而，艾伦·肖尔（Allan Schore）的研究指出，一些非常具体的神经回路确实存在侧化偏差，这意味着它们的右脑作用多于左脑，或者左脑作用多于右脑，这是儿童与父母（尤其是儿童与母亲）之间某些形式依恋的基础。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And that these right brainisms, if you will, and left brainisms for attachment get played out again and again in our forms of attachment as adults.

如果你愿意的话，这些右脑主义和左脑主义在我们作为成年人的依恋形式中一次又一次地发挥作用。

So, I'd like to talk about that work briefly now, because I think it really points to a number of important features of how we establish bonds and the different routes to establishing bonds.

所以，我现在想简单地谈谈这项工作，因为我认为它确实指出了我们如何建立联系以及建立联系的不同途径的许多重要特征。

So, within the field of psychoanalysis, there's been a long-standing discussion, of course, about the so-called unconscious or subconscious, the things that we are not aware of.

因此，在精神分析领域，当然，对于所谓的无意识或潜意识，即我们不知道的事物，存在着长期的讨论。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And I think there's growing evidence pointing to the fact that at least one major component of the subconscious or the unconscious is the so-called autonomic nervous system.

我认为越来越多的证据表明，潜意识或无意识的至少一个主要组成部分是所谓的自主神经系统。

The autonomic nervous system is the portion of our nervous system that controls our reflexive breathing, our heart rate, our skin conductance, meaning our sweating, pupil size.

自主神经系统是我们神经系统的一部分，控制着我们的反射性呼吸、心率、皮肤电导，即我们的出汗、瞳孔大小。

It's the aspect of our nervous system that makes us more alert or more calm.

这是我们神经系统的一个方面，使我们更加警觉或更冷静。

It's the so-called sympathetic, meaning for alertness, or parasympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system — parasympathetic for more calming responses.

这就是所谓的交感神经，意思是警觉性，或者是自主神经系统的副交感神经分支——副交感神经负责更平静的反应。

Now, what Dr. Schore's work and the work of others is now showing is that early infant-parent, in particular infant-mother, attachment involves a coordination or synchronization of these right brain circuits and these left brain circuits as they relate to the autonomic nervous system.

现在，肖尔博士和其他人的工作表明，早期的婴儿-父母，特别是婴儿-母亲的依恋涉及这些右脑回路和左脑回路的协调或同步，因为它们与自主神经系统有关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

How does this play out?

结果如何？

Well, it plays out where early on as an infant, when you're born, you're truly helpless.

好吧，当你还是个婴儿的时候，当你出生的时候，你真的很无助。

You can't feed yourself, you can't warm yourself, you can't change yourself, and you certainly can't ambulate, walk anywhere to get the things that you need.

你不能自己吃饭，不能取暖，不能改变自己，当然也不能走动，走到任何地方去拿你需要的东西。

All of those functions, all of those needs rather, are met by your primary caretaker.

所有这些功能，更确切地说，所有这些需求，都由您的主要看护者满足。

Typically, that's the mother.

通常，那个人就是母亲。

Fathers, of course, play a role also, but because of breastfeeding or even bottle feeding, typically mothers play a more prominent role.

当然，父亲也发挥着重要作用，但由于母乳喂养甚至奶瓶喂养，母亲通常扮演更重要的角色。

I realize there are exceptions, but that's the general rule.

我知道也有例外，但这是一般规则。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There are now brain imaging studies examining the brains of infants and the brains of mothers as they interact and showing that the physical contact between the two, the breathing of the mother and child, the heart rate of the mother and child, and indeed the pupil size of the mother and child, are actually actively getting coordinated.

现在有脑成像研究检查婴儿的大脑和母亲的大脑在互动时的情况，结果表明，两者之间的身体接触、母亲和孩子的呼吸、母亲和孩子的心率，以及母亲和孩子的瞳孔大小，实际上正在积极协调。

In other words, the mother is regulating the infant's autonomic nervous system, primarily, and the infant is also regulating the mother's autonomic nervous system.

换句话说，母亲主要在调节婴儿的自主神经系统，婴儿也在调节母亲的自主神经系统。

A small coo from a baby or a cry, which is a stress cry from a baby, will definitely regulate the autonomic nervous system of the mother.

婴儿的一声小咕咕声或婴儿的哭声（婴儿的压力哭声）肯定会调节母亲的自主神经系统。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This whole right brain system is directly tapped into the so-called oxytocin system, and we'll talk more about oxytocin in a moment.

整个右脑系统直接接入所谓的催产素系统，稍后我们将详细讨论催产素。

Oxytocin, again, being this peptide hormone that is involved in social bonds of all kinds, but that, at least in early childhood, is very closely associated with milk let-down and milk production.

催产素又是一种参与各种社会关系的肽类激素，但至少在儿童早期，它与泌乳和产奶密切相关。

There's actually a lot of stimulation of oxytocin release in the mother by nursing, itself.

实际上，哺乳本身就可以大量刺激母亲释放催产素。

So, physical contact with the nipple and by the contact of skin between baby and mother.

因此，婴儿与母亲之间通过乳头的身体接触以及皮肤的接触。

And there's specificity there.

那里有特殊性。

It's not just any baby that can evoke the most amount of oxytocin release from the mother.

并不是任何婴儿都能引起母亲释放最多的催产素。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, however, there are examples where just holding a child will evoke oxytocin release in the nonparent or somebody other than the parent.

然而，现在有一些例子表明，仅仅抱着孩子就会引起非父母或父母以外的人释放催产素。

I think most people experience that.

我想大多数人都会有这样的经历。

That's the new-puppy or new-baby phenomenon, because indeed puppies can evoke oxytocin release as well.

这就是新小狗或新婴儿现象，因为小狗确实也能引起催产素的释放。

The point is not that oxytocin is only released in response to the primary relationship or the mother and their child, but rather that the amount of oxytocin scales with how closely related one is to that particular child and vice versa.

问题不在于催产素仅针对主要关系或母亲及其孩子而释放，而在于催产素的量与一个人与该特定孩子的关系密切程度成正比，反之亦然。

So, there's oxytocin release occurring in both the child and the mother.

因此，孩子和母亲都会释放催产素。

So, this right brain system is an emotional but autonomic system.

所以，这个右脑系统是一个情感但自主的系统。

It is below our conscious detection.

它低于我们有意识的检测。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, as we get older, there's another system that starts to come into play in parent-child interactions, and this also comes into play in sibling interactions, and so forth, and that's the left brain system, as described by Allan Schore.

现在，随着我们年龄的增长，还有另一个系统开始在亲子互动中发挥作用，这也在兄弟姐妹互动中发挥作用，等等，这就是左脑系统，正如艾伦·肖尔所描述的那样。

Now again, this isn't about emotion versus rationality.

再说一次，这不是情感与理性的问题。

This is about autonomic versus more conscious forms of bonding.

这是关于自主与更有意识的结合形式。

So, on the left brain circuit side, there is evidence for, based on neuroimaging studies, but also animal studies, to support the idea that on the left brain side of things, there is a processing more of narratives that are very concrete, logical narratives.

因此，在左脑回路方面，基于神经影像学研究和动物研究，有证据支持这样的观点：在事物的左脑一侧，有更多的叙事处理，这些叙事是非常具体、逻辑性的叙事。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And again, I have to zoom out and just really tamp down the idea that it's not that one side of the brain is emotional and the other side is rational, but rather that these two things are happening in parallel, and that there's a bit of a dominance for the left brain circuitry to be involved in the kinds of bonding that are associated with prediction and reward.

再说一次，我必须缩小范围，真正压制这样的想法，即大脑的一侧不是感性的，另一侧是理性的，而是这两件事是并行发生的，并且左脑电路在与预测和奖励相关的联系中具有一定的主导地位。

So, a good example would be reading to a child every night, sitting there and reading.

因此，一个很好的例子就是每天晚上给孩子读书，坐在那里读书。

I can recall reading to my niece and seeing her parents read to her, and she had no clue whatsoever with what they were saying, because she ...

我记得给我侄女读书，看到她的父母给她读书，而她对他们在说什么一无所知，因为她......

Well, at least I don't know, but she certainly couldn't speak.

好吧，至少我不知道，但她肯定不能说话。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But she liked looking at the pictures, and it was a very predictable interaction.

但她喜欢看照片，这是一种非常可预测的互动。

It was, out come the book; it was usually, here's the bath, then there's the pajamas, then there's the lights go down, then out comes the book, and then there's the interaction between parent and child, which of course usually also involves physical contact.

是的，这本书出来了；通常是，这里是洗澡，然后是睡衣，然后是灯灭，然后是书出来，然后是父母和孩子之间的互动，当然通常也涉及身体接触。

So, it's not like the right brain system and the left brain system are operating separately; they're operating in parallel.

所以，右脑系统和左脑系统并不是分开运作的，而是不同的。他们并行运作。

But that prediction and reward, kids like to be read to, is generally mediated by this left brain system.

但孩子们喜欢听的预测和奖励通常是由左脑系统调节的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And this carries on as children get older and as parents take on and evolve their parenting roles.

随着孩子年龄的增长以及父母承担和发展他们的养育角色，这种情况会持续下去。

It's very apparent that healthy social bonding between children and caretaker relies on the fact that both this right brain system and the left brain system are engaged, that there's a synchronization of autonomic function, meaning a joining together an actual somatic feeling, and that there's a synchronization of experience that's more about some outward or external stimulus like reading a book, or watching a show together, or enjoying some common experience of a meal together.

很明显，儿童和看护者之间的健康社会联系依赖于这样一个事实：右脑系统和左脑系统都参与其中，自主功能的同步，意味着将实际的躯体感觉结合在一起，以及体验的同步，更多的是一些外在或外部的刺激，比如读书，一起看节目，或者一起享受一些共同的用餐体验。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And of course, as children get older, they're able to access more and more cognitively sophisticated things.

当然，随着孩子年龄的增长，他们能够接触到越来越多认知复杂的事物。

You can watch a movie with them and they'll make predictions about which characters are going to show up, for instance.

例如，你可以和他们一起看电影，他们会预测哪些角色将出现。

Or you can take them to a concert, and they can appreciate the concert or play in that concert, and they appreciate that they're being appreciated.

或者你可以带他们去听音乐会，他们可以欣赏音乐会或在音乐会中演奏，他们会感激自己受到赞赏。

So, there are a million different ...

所以，有一百万种不同的......

there's infinite number of examples here, but the idea is that there are two parallel circuits that are important for establishing bonds and that this is set up very early on in childhood, and that it's neither emotional nor rational, but both.

这里有无数的例子，但我们的想法是，有两个平行的回路对于建立联系很重要，而且这是在童年早期就建立起来的，它既不是情感的，也不是理性的，而是两者兼而有之。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, both of these circuits tap into the circuitry that we talked about earlier where dopamine is released and molecules like serotonin, which again is a neuromodulator more associated with feelings of warmth, comfort, and satisfaction with our immediate surroundings and possessions rather than seeking of things and motivation and drive to go look for things, as is the case with dopamine.

现在，这两个回路都进入了我们之前讨论过的释放多巴胺和血清素等分子的回路，血清素也是一种神经调节剂，与我们周围的环境和财产的温暖、舒适和满足感更相关，而不是像多巴胺那样寻求事物、动机和动力去寻找事物。

So, there's still interactions with those systems, but the work of Allan Schore has stimulated a lot of interest in what are these circuits that underlie these autonomic bonding, this matching of heart rate and breathing.

因此，这些系统仍然存在相互作用，但艾伦·肖尔的工作激发了人们对这些自主神经联系、心率和呼吸匹配背后的回路的极大兴趣。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And what are the neural circuits that underlie this bonding, or this synchronization of experience on the left brain side?

这种联系或左脑侧经验同步的神经回路是什么？

And the reason I find this model so attractive is that it's very clear that healthy child-parent bonds are established not by one or the other of these right brain or left brain systems, but by both.

我觉得这个模型如此有吸引力的原因是，很明显，健康的亲子关系不是由右脑或左脑系统中的一个或另一个建立的，而是由两者共同建立的。

And there isn't enough time to go into it right now, but some of you are probably familiar with this idea of anxious attached versus avoidant attached versus, there's a kind of dissociative attached model of infant- parent bonding.

现在没有足够的时间来讨论这个问题，但是你们中的一些人可能熟悉焦虑型依恋与回避型依恋的概念，还有一种婴儿-父母关系的分离型依恋模型。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Just briefly, what's becoming clear from the neurobiological imaging studies is that as people start to advance into adolescence and adulthood and well into their elderly years, the same circuits that were active and established in childhood are repurposed for other forms of attachment.

简而言之，从神经生物学成像研究中可以清楚地看出，随着人们开始进入青春期、成年期以及老年，在童年时期活跃和建立的相同回路会被重新用于其他形式的依恋。

And that to have truly complete bonds with other individuals, but in particular with romantic partners, it's important that there be both synchronization of physiology and synchronization of these more, I guess we could call them, more rational or predictive type circuits.

为了与其他个体建立真正完整的联系，特别是与浪漫伴侣，重要的是生理学同步和这些更多的同步，我想我们可以称之为更理性或预测型回路。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, we can leverage this information.

因此，我们可以利用这些信息。

We can start to think about what sorts of bonds to us feel very enriching and very complete.

我们可以开始思考什么样的联系让我们感到非常丰富和完整。

We know that we can have, for instance, an emotional connection with somebody, but we can also have a cognitive connection with somebody.

例如，我们知道我们可以与某人建立情感联系，但我们也可以与某人建立认知联系。

I have many colleagues with whom I have deep intellectual connection and convergence with.

我有很多同事，与我有着深厚的知识联系和共识。

I wouldn't say that I have deep emotional connection with most of them.

我不会说我与他们中的大多数人有着深厚的情感联系。

A few of them, yes, but most of them, no. Others in my life, for instance, I have a deep emotional connection to but not a lot of deep cognitive connection to.

其中一些是，但大多数，不是。例如，我生活中的其他人与我有深厚的情感联系，但没有很多深刻的认知联系。

A good example would be the connection that I had with my bulldog, who unfortunately passed away.

一个很好的例子就是我和我的斗牛犬的联系，它不幸去世了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But Costello, we had a very close emotional connection, right?

但是科斯特洛，我们有非常密切的情感联系，对吧？

It was based on touch, it was based on our walks, it was based on fun.

它基于触摸，基于我们的散步，基于乐趣。

It was very autonomic.

这是非常自主的。

We rarely discussed, if ever, what we were doing.

我们很少讨论（如果有的话）我们正在做的事情。

We had a felt relationship as opposed to a cognitive relationship.

我们之间是一种感觉关系，而不是认知关系。

And while I'm half kidding about that as an example, it's a really good example.

虽然我半开玩笑地举了这个例子，但这确实是一个很好的例子。

It was a very real bond.

这是一种非常真实的纽带。

And in fact, just as a brief anecdote, I can remember when Costello was a puppy and I was entirely responsible for his well-being.

事实上，就像一个简短的轶事一样，我记得科斯特洛还是一只小狗的时候，我对他的健康负有全部责任。

I, like any parent of any infant, I lost my appetite for those few weeks when I was house training him, and I seemed to lose all ability to process any cognitive information.

我，就像任何婴儿的父母一样，在我在家训练他的那几周里，我失去了食欲，而且我似乎失去了处理任何认知信息的所有能力。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, I was also sleep-deprived, but I was entirely focused on the autonomic bond that we were forming.

现在，我也睡眠不足，但我完全专注于我们正在形成的自主联系。

Now, thankfully, that eventually was established pretty quickly.

现在，值得庆幸的是，这一点最终很快就确定了。

Basically, I went on to just basically feed him, walk him, and do everything for him.

基本上，我只是喂他，遛他，为他做一切。

And we had a wonderful relationship.

我们的关系非常好。

Now it's very clear that what we're talking about here is a form of empathy.

现在很明显，我们在这里谈论的是一种同理心。

Empathy is the ability to feel, or at least think we feel, what others feel.

同理心是感受他人感受的能力，或者至少是我们认为自己感受的能力。

Because, again, as my colleague and the great bioengineer and psychiatrist at Stanford, Karl Deisseroth, has said, and he was a guest on this podcast, we really don't know how other people feel.

因为，正如我的同事、斯坦福大学伟大的生物工程师和精神病学家卡尔·戴瑟罗斯（Karl Deisseroth）所说，他是这个播客的嘉宾，我们真的不知道其他人的感受。

We just get the sense that perhaps we are feeling the same thing or we're feeling something different, and we infer or we project what they might be thinking.

我们只是感觉到，也许我们正在感受相同的事情，或者我们正在感受不同的东西，然后我们推断或预测他们可能在想什么。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Empathy is this sense that we are sensing what other people are sensing.

同理心是指我们正在感知其他人正在感知的东西。

And there's no real way to verify that except if you're measuring physiologies, you could get some insight into that.

没有真正的方法可以验证这一点，除非您正在测量生理学，否则您可以对此有所了解。

In the clinical psychology and in the neurobiological literature now, it's understood that there is both emotional empathy, like actually feeling what somebody is feeling, and what is now called cognitive empathy.

现在的临床心理学和神经生物学文献中，人们认为既有情感同理心，比如实际感受到某人的感受，也有现在所谓的认知同理心。

Cognitive empathy is this idea that we both see and experience something the same way at a mental level.

认知同理心是指我们在心理层面以相同的方式看待和体验某些事物。

Emotional empathy is this idea that, yes, I can feel what you feel at a visceral, somatic or autonomic level.

情感同理心是指，是的，我可以在内脏、躯体或自主水平上感受到你的感受。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And it's absolutely clear that strong social bonds between children and caretaker involve both emotional empathy, this autonomic function, and cognitive empathy.

很明显，儿童和看护者之间牢固的社会联系涉及情感同理心、这种自主功能和认知同理心。

That there's a mutual understanding of how the other person feels and how the other person thinks in order to be able to make predictions about what they're going to do.

相互理解对方的感受和想法，以便能够预测他们将要做什么。

It's also very clear, based on the emerging literature, that romantic relationships and, to some extent, friendships, although friendships have been explored a bit less in the literature, that emotional empathy and cognitive empathy are both required in order to establish what we call a trusting social bond.

根据新兴文献，很明显，浪漫关系以及某种程度上的友谊，尽管文献中对友谊的探讨较少，但情感同理心和认知同理心都是建立我们所谓的信任社会纽带所必需的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And there's some beautiful experiments done, using neuroimaging, of two individuals playing a trust game, essentially a game where you're trying to predict the other person's behavior, whether or not they will behave in a trustworthy way.

使用神经影像学进行了一些漂亮的实验，两个人玩信任游戏，本质上是一个你试图预测另一个人的行为的游戏，无论他们是否会以值得信赖的方式行事。

And these experiments tend to use real money.

而且这些实验往往使用真金白银。

So, there's actually something at stake.

所以，实际上有一些事情处于危险之中。

And you can more or less predict whether or not somebody feels a lot of trust for somebody else and whether or not they believe they will act in a trustworthy manner based on whether or not they have high levels of both cognitive empathy and emotional empathy.

你或多或少可以根据某人是否具有高水平的认知同理心和情感同理心来预测某人是否对其他人有很大的信任，以及他们是否相信自己会以值得信赖的方式行事。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, for those of you that are seeking to establish deeper bonds or bonds of any kind, it's important that you think about synchronization of bodily states, we talked about that earlier, and synchronization of cognitive states.

因此，对于那些寻求建立更深层次的联系或任何类型的联系的人来说，重要的是要考虑我们之前讨论过的身体状态的同步以及认知状态的同步。

Now that doesn't mean you have to agree on everything.

这并不意味着你们必须在所有事情上都达成一致。

In fact, oftentimes people who feel very close to one another, cognitively and emotionally, argue about all sorts of things and disagree about a lot of things.

事实上，在认知和情感上彼此感觉非常亲近的人常常会在很多事情上争论并存在分歧。

In fact, we probably know, I certainly know people and couples that seem to bond through arguing, which is an interesting phenotype in itself.

事实上，我们可能知道，我当然认识一些似乎通过争吵而建立联系的人和夫妇，这本身就是一种有趣的表型。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But the point isn't that there be total convergence of opinion or stance, but rather that we understand how the other feels and we believe that they understand how we feel, that we understand how the other person thinks, and that they think that we understand how they think.

但关键并不在于意见或立场完全一致，而是我们理解对方的感受，并且我们相信他们理解我们的感受，我们理解对方的想法，并且他们认为我们理解他们的想法。

So, it's a reciprocal loop between two people that involves this cognition and involves emotion, and it's grounded, as Dr. Schore has pointed out, in our earliest forms of attachment.

因此，这是两个人之间的相互循环，涉及这种认知和情感，并且正如肖尔博士指出的那样，它植根于我们最早的依恋形式。

And that makes perfect sense, because the same sorts of circuits that are responsible for social homeostasis, the right brain and left brain circuits that are responsible for infant-mother attachment and then later for more intellectual or predictive-type attachments between child and caregiver, are the exact same circuits that we superimpose into all other types of relationships throughout the rest of our life.

这是完全有道理的，因为负责社会稳态的相同类型的回路，负责婴儿与母亲依恋的右脑和左脑回路，以及后来负责孩子和照顾者之间更多智力或预测型依恋的回路，与我们在余生中叠加到所有其他类型的关系中的回路完全相同。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And I should just mention that for those of you that might be thinking that you had a less than satisfactory infant-caretaker interaction or form of attachment, you are not alone.

我只想提一下，对于那些可能认为自己与婴儿看护者的互动或依恋形式不太令人满意的人来说，你并不孤单。

And in fact, much of the work that Dr. Schore focuses on is about how those early circumstances can be understood and rewired toward the development of healthy adult attachment.

事实上，肖尔博士关注的大部分工作都是关于如何理解这些早期环境并重新调整以发展健康的成人依恋。

And if you want to check out his work, he's actually got a few YouTube videos out there.

如果您想查看他的作品，他实际上有一些 YouTube 视频。

Again, it's Allan Schore, spelled S-C-H-O-R-E.

又是艾伦·肖尔（Allan Schore），拼写为 S-C-H-O-R-E。

I'd love to get him as a guest on the podcast.

我很想让他作为播客的嘉宾。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

He also has a book, it's called, "Right Brain Psychotherapy," and it's an excellent book.

他还有一本书，叫做《右脑心理治疗》，这是一本很棒的书。

It's actually pretty accessible, even if you don't have a background in biology or psychology.

即使您没有生物学或心理学背景，它实际上也很容易理解。

I found it to be very interesting.

我发现这很有趣。

There are a lot of excellent references.

有很多优秀的参考资料。

And again, if you're listening, Dr. Schore, or you know Allan Schore, we'd love to get you on the podcast.

再说一次，如果您正在听，肖尔博士，或者您认识艾伦·肖尔，我们很乐意让您加入播客。

One of the key themes to understand about biological processes is that they often work on short timescales and longer timescales.

了解生物过程的关键主题之一是它们通常在短时间尺度和较长时间尺度上起作用。

And up until now, we've mainly been talking about the stuff that happens on short timescales.

到目前为止，我们主要讨论的是短时间范围内发生的事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, the kind of synchronization of heart rate, or activation of a given set of neurons that dump some dopamine and causes us to seek out more social interaction or less, for instance.

例如，心率的同步，或者一组特定神经元的激活，会释放一些多巴胺，导致我们寻求更多或更少的社交互动。

But every biological circuit and function needs to have long-standing effects as well.

但每一个生物回路和功能都需要产生长期影响。

And typically when you're thinking about long-standing effects in the brain and body, you start looking towards the hormone system.

通常，当您考虑对大脑和身体的长期影响时，您会开始关注激素系统。

It's not always the case, but more often than not, neurotransmitters and neuromodulators are pretty quick, whereas hormones have longer-lasting effects.

情况并非总是如此，但通常情况下，神经递质和神经调节剂的作用相当快，而激素则具有更持久的作用。

In fact, a lot of hormones can actually travel to the nucleus of a cell and actually change which genes are expressed.

事实上，许多激素实际上可以进入细胞核并改变基因的表达。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, if ever there was a hormone or hormone-like molecule that's associated with social bonding, it's oxytocin.

因此，如果有一种激素或类似激素的分子与社会联系有关，那就是催产素。

And oxytocin has gotten a ton of interest in the popular press.

催产素引起了大众媒体的极大兴趣。

I don't know why that is, but perhaps it's because of all the incredible things that oxytocin is associated with.

我不知道为什么会这样，但也许是因为催产素与所有令人难以置信的事情有关。

And it is indeed a lot of things.

而且确实是很多事情。

So, for instance, oxytocin is released in the brain and binds to receptors in different locations in the body.

例如，催产素在大脑中释放，并与身体不同部位的受体结合。

And the moment you hear "different locations in the body receptors," you should think, "Well, it's going to have lots of different effects." And indeed it does.

当你听到“身体感受器的不同位置”时，你应该想，“嗯，它会产生很多不同的影响。”确实如此。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Oxytocin is involved in orgasm; it's involved in social recognition.

催产素与性高潮有关。它涉及社会认可。

That's right, when you see people that you consider your people, your team, your group, your friends, oxytocin is released, even if you don't come into physical contact with them.

没错，当你看到那些你认为是你的人、你的团队、你的团体、你的朋友的人时，催产素就会被释放，即使你没有与他们进行身体接触。

Oxytocin is also associated with pair-bonding, the feeling that they are "your person," and that you are "their person," as a common language people use.

催产素还与夫妻关系有关，感觉他们是“你的人”，而你是“他们的人”，这是人们使用的共同语言。

It's also associated with honesty.

它还与诚实有关。

Believe it or not, there are experiments that show that if people receive oxytocin through an inhalation spray, that they will be more honest and forthcoming about certain things.

不管你相信与否，有实验表明，如果人们通过吸入喷雾接受催产素，他们会对某些事情更加诚实和坦率。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And the oxytocin system and variants in the oxytocin system have also been associated with autism and various autism spectrum disorders.

催产素系统和催产素系统的变异体也与自闭症和各种自闭症谱系障碍有关。

So, there's a huge range of behaviors that it's involved in because you have receptors for oxytocin and lots of different brain structures and areas of the body that do different things.

所以，它涉及到各种各样的行为，因为你有催产素的受体，还有许多不同的大脑结构和身体区域来做不同的事情。

However, there's some very consistent effects of oxytocin that are worth just listing off.

然而，催产素有一些非常一致的作用，值得一一列举。

And then I'm going to talk about two separate pathways by which oxytocin can manifest its effects and how you can actually regulate oxytocin in ways that are interesting and perhaps useful as well.

然后我将讨论催产素发挥其作用的两种不同途径，以及如何以有趣且可能也有用的方式实际调节催产素。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

First of all, oxytocin is involved in the milk let-down reflex, lactation.

首先，催产素参与泌乳反射、哺乳。

This makes perfect sense.

这是完全有道理的。

There needs to be a cue by which the suckling on the nipple, of the infant, causes the release or let-down of milk.

需要有一个提示，通过婴儿的乳头吮吸，可以引起乳汁的释放或流出。

And milk let-down in lactation is controlled by prolactin, another hormone, but also oxytocin.

哺乳期的乳汁分泌量是由催乳素控制的，催乳素是另一种激素，也是催产素。

Oxytocin is also involved in uterine contraction during childbirth.

催产素还参与分娩过程中的子宫收缩。

It's involved in cervical dilation, to allow the baby to pass out of the birth canal.

它参与宫颈扩张，让婴儿顺利排出产道。

So, it's involved in induction of breastfeeding and of labor, which is remarkable and especially remarkable given that in males, or at least in some male animals, and in some male humans, and I do want to say some, and I'll get back to this, it can be involved in the erection response.

因此，它涉及母乳喂养和分娩的诱导，这是值得注意的，尤其是考虑到在男性中，或者至少在一些雄性动物中，以及在一些男性人类中，我确实想说一些，我会回到这一点，它可以参与勃起反应。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It can be involved in the orgasm response in both males and females.

它可以参与男性和女性的性高潮反应。

Although there, there's a very interesting difference.

尽管如此，还是有一个非常有趣的区别。

There's a little bit of controversy about this, but it does appear that in females, sexual stimulation and orgasm cause the release of oxytocin, whereas in males, sexual stimulation does not cause the release of oxytocin, but rather a different molecule, vasopressin, is triggered by sexual stimulation.

对此存在一些争议，但确实表明，在女性中，性刺激和性高潮会导致催产素的释放，而在男性中，性刺激不会导致催产素的释放，而是由性刺激触发另一种分子，即加压素。

But orgasm does trigger the release of oxytocin in males, but with a delay of about 30 minutes.

但性高潮确实会引发男性催产素的释放，但会延迟约 30 分钟。

Why that is and the specific function of that is not clear, but it does seem that oxytocin is involved in the sexual response in both males and females.

为什么会这样以及它的具体功能尚不清楚，但催产素似乎确实参与了男性和女性的性反应。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The main types of interactions that release oxytocin at high levels are, first of all, that the interaction be between individuals that see each other as very closely associated, right?

首先，释放高水平催产素的相互作用的主要类型是，彼此视为密切相关的个体之间的相互作用，对吗？

So, a, infant and mother are very closely associated, whether or not it's an adopted infant or not.

所以，婴儿和母亲的关系非常密切，无论它是否是领养的婴儿。

Oftentimes they're in close contact, oftentimes they are from the very body of the other.

通常他们是密切接触的，通常他们来自对方的身体。

And so the amount or the amplitude of oxytocin release tends to scale with how closely associated individuals are.

因此，催产素释放的量或幅度往往与个体的联系密切程度成正比。

Just the sight of one's baby or smell of one's baby can evoke oxytocin release and vice versa from the mother.

只要看到婴儿或闻到婴儿的气味就能引起母亲释放催产素，反之亦然。

Physical contact, even more so.

身体接触更是如此。

In romantic partners, physical contact, even the sight of a picture of a partner can evoke oxytocin release and sexual desire, also trust.

在浪漫的伴侣中，身体接触，甚至看到伴侣的照片都能唤起催产素的释放和性欲，也能引起信任。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So, there's this whole collection of psychological and physiological things that are packaged into the oxytocin system.

因此，催产素系统中包含了整个心理和生理事物的集合。

It's not just a one-way system.

这不仅仅是一个单向系统。

Now, a lot of people out there have written to me asking about inhalant oxytocin, asking whether or not that can actually increase the depth or rate of pair-bonding.

现在，很多人写信给我询问吸入催产素的情况，询问这是否真的可以增加夫妻关系的深度或速度。

And there does seem to be some evidence for that.

似乎确实有一些证据可以证明这一点。

Now, I think in most places, oxytocin is prescription, although it might be over the counter in others.

现在，我认为在大多数地方，催产素都是处方药，尽管在其他地方可能是非处方药。

I don't know.

我不知道。

You have to check where you are.

你必须检查一下你在哪里。

As far as I know you can't just go out and buy oxytocin nasal spray, although you may be able to.

据我所知，你不能直接出去购买催产素鼻喷雾剂，尽管你也许可以。

Forgive me, I'm naive to that point.

原谅我，在这一点上我很天真。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But it's interesting to note that some drugs that are being used in clinical trials for things like trauma and are also used in clinical therapeutic settings for increasing bonding, in particular MDMA, also called ecstasy, increase dopamine and serotonin.

但值得注意的是，一些用于治疗创伤等临床试验的药物，也用于临床治疗环境中以增加联系，特别是摇头丸，也称为摇头丸，可以增加多巴胺和血清素。

We know this.

我们知道这一点。

Dopamine and serotonin have a vast number of effects throughout the brain and body that I've talked about some of them today and in other podcasts.

多巴胺和血清素对整个大脑和身体有很多影响，我今天和其他播客中已经谈到了其中的一些影响。

But one of the lesser appreciated effects of MDMA is that it causes huge increases, massive increases in the amount of oxytocin that's released into the brain and body.

但摇头丸的一个不太为人所知的作用是，它会导致释放到大脑和身体中的催产素数量大幅增加。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And MDMA-assisted psychotherapy, while still illegal, as far as I know, certainly in the United States but in most places throughout the world, is being explored in clinical trials, not just for trauma, not just for depression, not just for eating disorders, but also for reestablishing what seem to be fractured or challenged bonds between romantic partners.

据我所知，摇头丸辅助心理治疗虽然仍然是非法的，但在美国乃至全世界大多数地方，都在临床试验中进行探索，不仅用于治疗创伤、抑郁、饮食失调，还用于重建浪漫伴侣之间似乎破裂或受到挑战的纽带。

And while most of the attention has been focused on the dopaminergic and serotonergic aspects of the MDMA response, it's clear to me, based on my read of the literature, that the enormously elevated oxytocin that occurs during the consumption of MDMA is part of the reason why people experience during the MDMA session, and post-MDMA session, a much greater degree and depth of kinship or feeling of connection with that person.

虽然大多数注意力都集中在 MDMA 反应的多巴胺能和血清素能方面，但根据我对文献的阅读，我很清楚，服用 MDMA 期间产生的催产素大幅升高是人们在 MDMA 期间和 MDMA 后体验到与该人更大程度和更深入的亲缘关系或联系感的部分原因。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And it's important to point out that that feeling of connection is of the autonomic type that I was referring to earlier, ala Allan Schore's work.

重要的是要指出，这种联系的感觉属于我之前提到的自主类型，阿拉·肖尔（Allan Schore）的作品。

That it's not of the, "Oh, we think about things the exact same way.

这不是“哦，我们思考问题的方式完全相同。

We agree on everything now." It's more of that their physiologies are synchronized.

我们现在在所有事情上都达成了一致。”更重要的是他们的生理机能是同步的。

So much so that even in individuals within a couple where one does a therapeutic session and the other does not, they still both feel quite more bonded to the other.

以至于即使在一对夫妇中，一个人进行治疗而另一个人没有，他们仍然感觉彼此之间的联系更加紧密。

Now, oftentimes in the clinical therapeutic setting, both members of a couple or romantic partnership, whatever form it may take, are consuming MDMA and then, thereby, experiencing elevated oxytocin, and this enhanced sense of bonding.

现在，在临床治疗环境中，夫妻或浪漫伴侣的双方，无论采取何种形式，都经常服用摇头丸，从而体验到催产素升高，以及这种增强的联系感。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And again, it's this autonomic bonding, but it's so powerful, meaning the oxytocin response is so powerful that it doesn't even require that both individuals experience this huge inflection in oxytocin.

再说一遍，这是这种自主神经联系，但它是如此强大，意味着催产素反应如此强大，甚至不需要两个人都经历催产素的巨大变化。

And that's because one person's physiology is influencing the other, and oxytocin is this kind of bridging signal that occurs in both nervous systems, synchronizes things like heartbeat.

这是因为一个人的生理机能正在影响另一个人，而催产素是一种发生在两个神经系统中的桥梁信号，可以同步心跳等事物。

Obviously it's associated with touch.

显然，它与触摸有关。

And so if people are touching or people are engaging in the sorts of behaviors that I mentioned earlier that can increase oxytocin further, that's going to further increase the depth of the bond.

因此，如果人们进行触摸或进行我之前提到的那种可以进一步增加催产素的行为，这将进一步增加联系的深度。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But the point here is that there's actually a hormonal glue between individuals, infant and mother, friends, teammates, romantic partners, and so on.

但这里的要点是，个体之间、婴儿和母亲、朋友、队友、浪漫伴侣等之间实际上存在着荷尔蒙粘合剂。

And that hormonal glue is oxytocin.

这种荷尔蒙胶就是催产素。

Now, people vary in the extent to which they feel or have the capacity to feel bonded to anyone, and it is now generally understood that some of that variation might depend on variations in oxytocin receptors or what are called gene polymorphisms for oxytocin.

现在，人们感觉或有能力感觉与任何人有联系的程度各不相同，现在人们普遍认为，其中一些变化可能取决于催产素受体的变化或所谓的催产素基因多态性。

Genes can have a number of different sequences in them, their nucleotide sequences.

基因中可以有许多不同的序列，即它们的核苷酸序列。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We won't go into genetics right now: As and Gs and Cs and Ts in various combinations are what make up the genes.

我们现在不讨论遗传学：As、Gs、Cs 和 Ts 的各种组合构成了基因。

Genes are transcribed into RNA.

基因被转录成RNA。

RNA is translated into proteins that affect cells.

RNA 被翻译成影响细胞的蛋白质。

The oxytocin gene and codes for oxytocin and variants in that gene change the amount and function of oxytocin.

催产素基因和编码催产素的基因以及该基因的变体改变催产素的量和功能。

There's a really interesting study published just this last year in a relatively new journal.

去年，一本相对较新的期刊上发表了一项非常有趣的研究。

That journal has a kind of a unusual name, it's Heliyon, I think it's Heliyon and not Heliyon, but Heliyon, H-E-L-I-Y-O-N.

那本杂志有一个不寻常的名字，它是Heliyon，我认为是Heliyon而不是Heliyon，而是Heliyon，H-E-L-I-Y-O-N。

This is a Cell Press journal.

这是细胞出版社的期刊。

As far as I can tell it's a very solid journal.

据我所知，这是一本非常可靠的期刊。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Certainly the Cell Press label is very stringent, and this paper is entitled, "The relation between oxytocin receptor gene polymorphisms, ..." which just means changes in genes or variations in genes, "...

当然，Cell Press的标签是非常严格的，这篇论文的标题是“催产素受体基因多态性之间的关系，……”，这只是指基因的变化或基因的变异，“……

adult attachment, and Instagram sociability: An exploratory analysis." It's a really wild study, but I like the study.

成人依恋和 Instagram 社交能力：探索性分析。”这是一项非常疯狂的研究，但我喜欢这项研究。

It's very thorough.

非常彻底。

First author, last name, Carollo, C-A-R-O-L-L-O.

第一作者，姓氏，Carollo，C-A-R-O-L-L-O。

And what they found was that by analyzing the genetics of different individuals who are on social media and looking at how many people those individuals follow and how many people follow them, and what they come up with is a so-called social desirability index.

他们发现，通过分析社交媒体上不同个人的基因，并观察这些人关注了多少人，以及有多少人关注他们，他们得出了所谓的社会期望指数。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

They were able to correlate in a very straightforward way that people that carry certain variants in the oxytocin and oxytocin receptor genes actually seek out more online social Instagram interactions.

他们能够以一种非常直接的方式关联起来，即携带催产素和催产素受体基因某些变异的人实际上会寻求更多的 Instagram 在线社交互动。

So, some people I know, I won't name their names, only follow anywhere from zero to six accounts, other people follow thousands of accounts.

所以，对于我认识的一些人，我不会说出他们的名字，只会关注零到六个帐户，其他人则关注数千个帐户。

And they take the ratio of how many accounts people follow versus how many followers they have, arguably not a perfect measure, but a nice one in the sense that you can do this in a completely unbiased way with many, many thousands of subjects.

他们采用了人们关注的帐户数量与他们拥有的关注者数量的比率，这可以说不是一个完美的衡量标准，但从某种意义上说，这是一个很好的衡量标准，因为你可以以完全公正的方式对成千上万的主题进行测量。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then they were able to get genomic analysis from a number of these subjects.

然后他们能够对其中一些受试者进行基因组分析。

And it turns out that people who have, let's say, higher levels of oxytocin function, or potential levels of oxytocin function, actively seek out more social interactions on social media.

事实证明，具有较高催产素功能水平或潜在催产素功能水平的人会积极在社交媒体上寻求更多的社交互动。

So this, I think, represents an important first in the area of how social media and data from social media are starting to merge with biological data in terms of predicting how avidly people will seek out social interactions of an online type.

因此，我认为，这代表了社交媒体和来自社交媒体的数据如何开始与生物数据融合，以预测人们如何热衷于寻求在线类型的社交互动。

And nowadays we hear a lot about how online we are connected, but we're not really ...

如今，我们听到很多关于我们如何在网上相互联系的说法，但我们并没有真正......

we're, what is it?

我们，这是什么？

We're communicating, but we're not connected or the connections aren't real.

我们正在沟通，但我们没有联系或者联系不是真实的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I think we're going to need to revisit that.

我认为我们需要重新审视这一点。

While I'm certainly a believer in the idea that face-to-face communication and common interactions with people standing in the same space or playing sports together, enjoying music together, enjoying meals together is vitally important, there's an entire generation or several generations of people that are coming up who much of their social interaction has been online.

虽然我坚信与站在同一个空间或一起做运动、一起享受音乐、一起用餐的人们进行面对面的交流和共同互动是至关重要的，但未来整整一代人或几代人的大部分社交互动都是在网上进行的。

And if you think about it, all of the things that we've spelled out earlier about common mental narrative, this left brain system, ala Allan Schore, or autonomic bonding, or synchronization of heartbeats according to common stories, all that is happening in online social interactions.

如果你想一想，我们之前阐述过的关于常见心理叙事的所有内容，左脑系统，阿拉·肖尔（Allan Schore），或自主神经联系，或根据常见故事进行心跳同步，所有这些都发生在在线社交互动中。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

When a thousand of us look at the exact same Instagram post, yes, we will have a thousand independent responses to that, but chances are many of us have a similar or same response based on the data that we talked about earlier in synchronization of heartbeats.

当我们一千个人查看完全相同的 Instagram 帖子时，是的，我们会对此有一千个独立的反应，但根据我们之前讨论的心跳同步数据，我们中的许多人很可能会做出类似或相同的反应。

And so we are socially bonded with other people through social media, and it's very apparent that the oxytocin system is playing some role in that.

因此，我们通过社交媒体与其他人建立了社会联系，很明显，催产素系统在其中发挥了一定的作用。

And this, if we zoom out, makes perfect sense because again, dopamine, serotonin, prolactin, oxytocin, none of these systems were placed in us or are organized within us in order to encourage specific and only specific types of social interactions.

如果我们缩小范围，这是完全有道理的，因为多巴胺、血清素、催乳素、催产素，这些系统都没有被放置在我们体内或在我们体内组织起来，以鼓励特定且仅特定类型的社交互动。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The one that we can say is absolutely critical is the child-parent interaction, because children simply can't take care of themselves, they need a caretaker.

我们可以说绝对关键的是孩子与父母的互动，因为孩子根本无法照顾自己，他们需要一个看护者。

I should have said caretaker, not parent.

我应该说看护人，而不是父母。

But infants, if they're not taken care of, will die.

但婴儿如果不得到照顾，就会死亡。

But beyond that, we have evolved or come to realize many different types of social interactions, and online interactions nowadays are very, very common.

但除此之外，我们已经发展或认识到许多不同类型的社交互动，而如今的在线互动非常非常普遍。

I'm certainly involved in them.

我当然也参与其中。

I'm guessing you're involved in them as well.

我猜你也参与其中。

We're involved in one right now, for example.

例如，我们现在正在参与其中一项活动。

The oxytocin system is absolutely threaded through and largely responsible for those types of social bonds as well.

催产素系统绝对贯穿并在很大程度上负责这些类型的社会纽带。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And incidentally, "Oxytocin" is the name of the fifth song on Billie Eilish's second album, "Happier Than Ever." So, we've covered a lot about the biology and indeed the neural circuitry and neurochemistry and neuroendocrinology of social bonding.

顺便说一句，“Oxytocin”是 Billie Eilish 第二张专辑“Happier Than Ever”中第五首歌的名称。所以，我们已经讨论了很多关于社会联系的生物学以及神经回路、神经化学和神经内分泌学的内容。

I want to make sure that I highlight the key features that go into any and all of your social bonds.

我想确保我强调了所有社会纽带的关键特征。

First of all, all social bonds have the potential to include both what we called emotional empathy and cognitive empathy.

首先，所有的社会纽带都有可能包括我们所说的情感同理心和认知同理心。

And so if you are interested in establishing and deepening social bonds of any kind, it's important that you put some effort toward this thing that we call emotional empathy, which is really about sharing autonomic experience.

因此，如果您有兴趣建立和加深任何形式的社会纽带，那么重要的是您要为我们称之为情感同理心的东西付出一些努力，这实际上是关于分享自主经验。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, depending on the relationship, that will take on different context, what's appropriate in one type of bond is not going to be appropriate in another type of bond.

现在，根据关系的不同，在不同的背景下，适合一种类型的债券的内容不一定适合另一种类型的债券。

Physical contact, for instance, is appropriate for certain types of bonds and not for others.

例如，身体接触适合某些类型的债券，但不适用于其他类型的债券。

Nonetheless, emotional empathy and the synchronization of autonomic function — heart rate, breathing, et cetera — can be best accomplished by paying attention to external events, in particular narrative story, music.

尽管如此，情感同理心和自主功能的同步（心率、呼吸等）可以通过关注外部事件（特别是叙事故事、音乐）来最好地实现。

and perhaps sports or other types of experience, as an external stimulus to drive synchrony of those internal states.

也许还有运动或其他类型的体验，作为驱动这些内部状态同步的外部刺激。

The other aspect of forming deep bonds is cognitive empathy.

形成深厚联系的另一个方面是认知同理心。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Again, cognitive empathy is not about agreeing on things or viewing things the exact same way.

再说一遍，认知同理心并不是同意事物或以完全相同的方式看待事物。

It's about really gaining understanding of how somebody else thinks about something, really paying attention to that, and then paying attention to how you think about and feel about something.

这是关于真正了解别人如何看待某件事，真正关注它，然后关注你如何思考和感受某件事。

So, that's what cognitive empathy is.

所以，这就是认知同理心。

So, emotional and cognitive empathy together are what make up these really robust bonds of various kinds.

因此，情感和认知同理心共同构成了这些真正牢固的各种纽带。

Now, we also talked about introversion and extroversion, and I'd like to try and dismantle the common misperceptions about introversion and extroversion because when we look at the neural circuitry, as you recall, introverts are not people that don't like social interaction.

现在，我们还讨论了内向和外向，我想尝试消除关于内向和外向的常见误解，因为当我们观察神经回路时，正如你所记得的，内向的人并不是不喜欢社交的人。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's just that they feel filled up, or sated, by less social interaction than would be an extrovert.

只是与外向的人相比，他们因较少的社交互动而感到充实或满足。

And that's because, at least according to the social homeostasis circuit model, they actually get more dopamine from less social interaction.

这是因为，至少根据社会稳态回路模型，他们实际上从较少的社交互动中获得了更多的多巴胺。

It's like somebody who's sated by less amount of food.

这就像一个人吃较少的食物就感到饱了。

Doesn't mean they don't have the same appetite, it just means that they get more from less.

并不意味着他们没有相同的胃口，只是意味着他们从更少中获得更多。

Whereas extroverts get less dopamine release from an equivalent amount of social interaction.

而外向的人在等量的社交互动中释放的多巴胺较少。

And of course, these aren't precise measurements, but on the whole, extroverts need more social interaction, more frequent, more long-lasting, et cetera, in order to achieve that dopamine threshold because, again, dopamine is driving that craving of social interaction.

当然，这些并不是精确的测量，但总的来说，外向的人需要更多、更频繁、更持久的社交互动，等等，才能达到多巴胺阈值，因为多巴胺再次驱动了对社交互动的渴望。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And once it's met, then people don't feel like they have to seek social interaction as much.

一旦满足了这一点，人们就不会觉得自己必须那么多地寻求社交互动。

So, for those of you that feel as if you're an introvert or extrovert, or that know introverts and extroverts, it's not about how verbal people are, it's not about how much they seek out social interactions per se, it's about how much social interaction is enough for the given person.

因此，对于那些感觉自己是内向者还是外向者，或者了解内向者和外向者的人来说，重要的不是人们的言语能力，也不是他们本身寻求社交互动的程度，而是关于对于特定的人来说多少社交互动就足够了。

Now, the whole reason for providing this framework, this biological circuitry, et cetera, is not to simply put a reductionist view on things that you already realized and knew, but rather to give you some leverage points to understand how is it that you form social bonds?

现在，提供这个框架、这个生物电路等等的全部原因，并不是简单地对你已经意识到和知道的事情采取还原论观点，而是给你一些杠杆点来理解你是如何形成社会纽带的？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

How is it that you might be challenged in forming certain types of social bonds?

您在形成某些类型的社会纽带方面可能会遇到哪些挑战？

And to think about entry points to both establishing and reinforcing social bonds of different kinds.

并考虑建立和加强不同类型的社会纽带的切入点。

Hopefully it will also give you insight into why breakups, whether it be between friendships or romantic partners, can be so painful.

希望它还能让您深入了解为什么分手（无论是友谊还是浪漫伴侣之间）会如此痛苦。

A breakup of any kind involves both a breaking of that emotional empathy and that cognitive empathy.

任何形式的分手都涉及情感同理心和认知同理心的破坏。

And indeed, it has a neurobiological and hormonal underpinning, right?

事实上，它有神经生物学和荷尔蒙的基础，对吗？

We go into some sense a social isolation, even if we're surrounded by other types of people.

即使我们被其他类型的人包围，我们也会在某种意义上陷入社会孤立。

If one of our major sources of oxytocin or one of our major sources of dopamine suddenly is not around, that is incredibly devastating to a nervous system.

如果我们的催产素的主要来源之一或多巴胺的主要来源之一突然不存在，这对神经系统来说是极其毁灭性的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And to borrow from the great psychologist and neurobiologist Lisa Feldman Barrett, who says, "We are not just individuals.

借用伟大的心理学家和神经生物学家丽莎·费尔德曼·巴雷特的话来说，“我们不仅仅是个体。

We are nervous systems influencing other nervous systems and their nervous systems are influencing us." I think that's the right way to think about it.

我们是影响其他神经系统的神经系统，而它们的神经系统也在影响我们。”我认为这是正确的思考方式。

So, it should come as no surprise that breakups of various kinds are very challenging, regardless of what underlaid that breakup, whether or not somebody moving or an actual decision of one person to leave the relationship or both, et cetera.

因此，毫不奇怪，各种分手都非常具有挑战性，无论分手的原因是什么，无论有人是否搬家，或者一个人实际决定离开这段关系，或者两者兼而有之，等等。

On the more positive side, largely biological, but to some extent psychological view of social bonding will also allow you to orient in this vast landscape that we call social bonds, to understand why it is perhaps that you seek out so many online interactions.

从更积极的方面来看，主要是生物学的，但在某种程度上，社会联系的心理学观点也将让你在我们称之为社会联系的广阔景观中定位，理解为什么你可能会寻求如此多的在线互动。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Maybe you have the oxytocin polymorphism that causes you to want to follow more accounts or interact more with people and comment more, respond to comments.

也许您有催产素多态性，导致您想要关注更多帐户或与人进行更多互动并进行更多评论、回复评论。

Who knows?

谁知道？

I'm also hoping that it will allow you to get a lens into how you can strengthen the social bonds that you want to strengthen and to establish new social bonds that you want to establish.

我还希望它能让您了解如何加强您想要加强的社会纽带以及如何建立您想要建立的新社会纽带。

None of this is meant to manipulate or leverage social bonds that wouldn't otherwise form.

所有这些都不是为了操纵或利用原本不会形成的社会纽带。

To the contrary, it's about identifying what are the specific routes by which social bonds are created and allowing you, I hope, to work with people that you feel challenged in forming social bonds with, or maybe deciding to completely divorce from those social bonds entirely because there's absolutely no hope of ever forming emotional or cognitive empathy.

相反，它是关于确定建立社会纽带的具体途径，并允许你，我希望，与那些你觉得在建立社会纽带方面面临挑战的人一起工作，或者可能决定完全脱离这些社会纽带，因为绝对没有希望形成情感或认知同理心。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I certainly acknowledge that that could be the case too.

我当然承认情况也可能如此。

So, there's both a light and a dark and a gray zone to this entire thing that we call social bonding.

因此，我们称之为社会联系的整个事物既有光明区，也有黑暗区和灰色地带。

What is not graded but is absolute, as they say, is that social bonds are vitally important to us as a species, whether or not they are at a distance over social media, whether or not they are in close proximity, actual physical contact, today what I've really tried to illustrate is that there are a common set of biological, neurochemical and hormonal underpinnings to what we call social bonding.

正如他们所说，没有分级但绝对的是，社会纽带对我们作为一个物种至关重要，无论它们是否通过社交媒体保持距离，无论它们是否接近，是否有实际的身体接触，今天我真正试图说明的是，我们所谓的社会纽带有一套共同的生物、神经化学和荷尔蒙基础。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so while it is complex and it is subjective; it involves the hierarchies, it involves our previous upbringing, it involves our goals, et cetera; it is not infinitely complex.

因此，虽然它很复杂而且很主观；它涉及等级制度，涉及我们以前的成长经历，涉及我们的目标等等；它并不是无限复杂的。

And in that sense it is tractable.

从这个意义上说，它是容易处理的。

Hopefully I've offered you some levers or some entry points under which you can both understand and move towards social bonds that would be more satisfying and more gratifying for you.

希望我为您提供了一些杠杆或切入点，您可以在这些杠杆或切入点下理解并走向对您来说更令人满意和更满意的社会纽带。

That's certainly one of the goals.

这当然是目标之一。

The other one is that hopefully if you're a clinician, or simply the friend that people go to, or the family member that people go to when they are challenged through various challenges in social bonds, that you can start to perhaps pass along some of the information as a way of people understanding what they're going through as they are breaking up, but also as they are falling in love, as they are forming attachments, and as they are being challenged with attachments.

另一个是，希望如果你是一名临床医生，或者只是人们去找的朋友，或者当人们在社会纽带中遇到各种挑战时去找的家庭成员，你可以开始传递一些信息，作为人们理解他们在分手时所经历的事情的一种方式，也是在他们坠入爱河时，在他们形成依恋时，以及在他们受到依恋挑战时的一种方式。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's my hope, and especially as you head into the holidays and end of year, but also as it continues into 2022, I would hope that you would take this knowledge and apply it in any of the ways that you feel are meaningful and adaptive for you.

这是我的希望，尤其是当您进入假期和年底时，而且随着这种情况持续到 2022 年，我希望您能够掌握这些知识，并以您认为对您有意义且适合您的任何方式应用它。

If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.

如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。

That really helps us.

这确实对我们有帮助。

In addition, please put comments in the comment section on YouTube if you have them, and if you have suggestions for future podcast guests that you'd like us to host on the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comment section as well.

此外，如果您有评论，请在 YouTube 的评论部分中发表评论；如果您对希望我们在 Huberman Lab 播客上主持的未来播客嘉宾有建议，也请在评论部分中提出。

We do eventually read all the comments.

我们最终确实阅读了所有评论。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In addition, please subscribe to the Huberman Lab podcast on Apple and/or Spotify.

此外，请订阅 Apple 和/或 Spotify 上的 Huberman Lab 播客。

And on Apple, you have the opportunity to leave us up to a five-star review and a comment if you like.

在 Apple 上，如果您愿意，您有机会给我们留下五星级的评论和评论。

Please also check out our sponsors mentioned at the beginning of the podcast.

另请查看播客开头提到的我们的赞助商。

That's perhaps the best way to support this podcast.

这也许是支持这个播客的最佳方式。

If you're not already following Huberman Lab on Instagram and Twitter, please do so.

如果您还没有在 Instagram 和 Twitter 上关注 Huberman Lab，请立即关注。

On Instagram I regularly teach short snippets about neuroscience and neuroscience-related tools.

我经常在 Instagram 上教授有关神经科学和神经科学相关工具的简短片段。

Some of that information overlaps with what's covered on the podcast.

其中一些信息与播客中涵盖的内容重叠。

Often it does not.

通常情况并非如此。

So, check us out at Huberman Lab on Instagram and on Twitter.

因此，请在 Instagram 和 Twitter 上查看 Huberman Lab 的我们。

And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.

最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。