Protect & Improve Your Hearing & Brain Health | Dr. Konstantina Stankovic
Konstantina Stankovic: So now, there is mounting evidence for a strong link between hearing loss and dementia.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：现在，越来越多的证据表明听力损失和痴呆症之间存在密切联系。
It's not that everyone with hearing loss will develop dementia.
并不是每个听力损失的人都会患上痴呆症。
However, we are trying to identify who is at risk.
然而，我们正在努力确定谁处于危险之中。
Hearing loss is a huge problem.
听力损失是一个大问题。
It currently affects one and a half billion people and disables half a billion of them.
目前它影响着 1.5 亿人，并导致 1.5 亿人残疾。
And the World Health Organization estimates that another billion will be affected by 2050.
世界卫生组织估计，到 2050 年，将有另外 10 亿人受到影响。
Andrew Huberman: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
Andrew Huberman：欢迎来到 Huberman 实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Dr. Konstantina Stankovic.
今天我的客人是康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇博士。
She is a medical doctor and researcher, and the chair of the Department of Otolaryngology, Head, and Neck Surgery at Stanford School of Medicine.
她是一名医生和研究员，也是斯坦福大学医学院耳鼻喉科、头颈外科系主任。
Andrew Huberman: Today, we discuss hearing and how to protect yours, as well as how to deal with common problems related to hearing like tinnitus, or ringing of the ears, which is a very debilitating condition that many millions of people suffer from.
安德鲁·休伯曼：今天，我们讨论听力以及如何保护您的听力，以及如何处理与听力相关的常见问题，例如耳鸣或耳鸣，这是数百万人遭受的一种非常令人衰弱的疾病。
Most of us don't think about our hearing very often, unless it's compromised.
我们大多数人都不会经常考虑我们的听力，除非听力受到损害。
And yet, we now know that our ability to hear clearly, in many ways, drives our ability to think and engage with the world, which is, of course, not to say that deaf people don't have excellent cognition and the ability to engage with the world.
然而，我们现在知道，我们清晰聆听的能力在很多方面推动了我们思考和与世界互动的能力，当然，这并不是说聋人没有出色的认知和与世界互动的能力。
Andrew Huberman: But they, of course, compensate for that hearing loss with the use of sign language and lip reading.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但是他们当然可以通过使用手语和唇读来弥补听力损失。
Most people, of course, have the ability to hear, and yet don't know that even subtle deficits in hearing can lead to focus issues, mild cognitive impairment, and more serious hearing loss is directly related to dementia.
当然，大多数人都有听力，但他们不知道，即使是轻微的听力缺陷也会导致注意力问题、轻度认知障碍，而更严重的听力损失则与痴呆症直接相关。
Andrew Huberman: And while until recently, we thought about partial hearing loss as really something that accompanies aging, it turns out that for various reasons related to loud environments, the use of headphones, et cetera, progressive subtle hearing loss is occurring much earlier in people's lives, even as early as childhood.
Andrew Huberman：虽然直到最近，我们还认为部分听力损失实际上是伴随衰老而来的，但事实证明，由于与嘈杂环境、使用耳机等相关的各种原因，进行性轻微听力损失在人们生命的早期就发生了，甚至早在童年时期就发生了。
Today, you're going to learn from one of the top experts in the world how your auditory system works.
今天，您将向世界顶级专家之一学习您的听觉系统如何工作。
Andrew Huberman: We'll talk about how it works from the time you were in your mother's womb; yes indeed, you could hear quite well even within your mother's womb, all the way through adolescence and into old age.
Andrew Huberman：我们将讨论从你在母亲子宫里开始它是如何运作的；是的，确实如此，即使在母亲的子宫里，从青春期到老年，你的听力都很好。
And you're going to learn the specific things that you can do to protect your hearing.
您将了解可以采取哪些具体措施来保护您的听力。
And I'm certain that you'll realize that some or many of the things that you're doing are subtly or not so subtly damaging your hearing.
我确信您会意识到您所做的一些或许多事情正在微妙或不那么微妙地损害您的听力。
And fortunately, you can remedy that very easily.
幸运的是，您可以很容易地解决这个问题。
We talk about some of the behavioral protocols that are backed by science, as well as things like the use of magnesium to protect against hearing loss.
我们讨论一些有科学依据的行为方案，以及使用镁来防止听力损失等。
Andrew Huberman: And of course, we talk about tinnitus, this very common condition of ringing in the ears, and how you can remedy it.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：当然，我们谈论耳鸣，这是一种非常常见的耳鸣症状，以及如何治疗它。
Thanks to Dr. Stankovic, this is both a fascinating and incredibly important conversation, relevant to people of all ages.
感谢斯坦科维奇博士，这是一次引人入胜且极其重要的对话，与所有年龄段的人都相关。
The information she shares is not covered in traditional public health announcements, but it absolutely should be, because it's not just about protecting your ability to hear.
她分享的信息并未包含在传统的公共卫生公告中，但绝对应该包含在内，因为这不仅仅是为了保护您的听力。
It's about protecting your brain function more broadly.
这是为了更广泛地保护您的大脑功能。
Andrew Huberman: So today's discussion is going to teach you about how your auditory system works, how to take care of it, how to remedy any partial hearing loss that you might have already experienced, and in doing so, how to take care of your brain health and cognition.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以今天的讨论将教您有关听觉系统如何工作、如何照顾它、如何补救您可能已经经历过的部分听力损失，以及如何照顾您的大脑健康和认知。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。
In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors.
为了与这个主题保持一致，今天的节目确实有赞助商。
Andrew Huberman: And now for my discussion with Dr. Konstantina Stankovic.
Andrew Huberman：现在我与 Konstantina Stankovic 博士进行了讨论。
Dr. Konstantina Stankovic, welcome.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇博士，欢迎光临。
Konstantina Stankovic: Thank you.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：谢谢。
Andrew Huberman: Most of us don't think about our hearing often enough.
Andrew Huberman：我们大多数人都没有经常考虑我们的听力。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Except, now, everyone is using headphones or listening to things very loud, or most people are living in quite loud environments.
Andrew Huberman：除了现在，每个人都在使用耳机或非常大声地听东西，或者大多数人都生活在非常吵闹的环境中。
I was in New York last week.
上周我在纽约。
I've been in Chicago, San Francisco.
我去过芝加哥、旧金山。
These are really loud cities.
这些都是非常吵闹的城市。
Andrew Huberman: And even if one goes out into the countryside, you know, if you're listening to music loudly, which can be fun, feels good, if you like loud music, classical or rock and roll or otherwise, I have a feeling you're going to tell us that it's not good for our hearing and that losing our hearing is not good for a bunch of other things.
安德鲁·休伯曼：即使一个人去乡村，你知道，如果你大声听音乐，这很有趣，感觉很好，如果你喜欢大声的音乐，古典音乐或摇滚乐或其他音乐，我有一种感觉，你会告诉我们，这对我们的听力不好，失去听力对很多其他事情都不好。
Tell us about hearing loss.
告诉我们有关听力损失的信息。
How do we avoid it?
我们该如何避免呢？
Konstantina Stankovic: Absolutely.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：当然。
So hearing loss is a huge problem.
所以听力损失是一个大问题。
It currently affects one and a half billion people and disables half a billion of them.
目前它影响着 1.5 亿人，并使 1.5 亿人致残。
And the World Health Organization estimates that another billion will be affected by 2050.
世界卫生组织估计，到 2050 年，还将有另外 10 亿人受到影响。
So, this is an enormous issue, and it's really underappreciated and stigmatized, and lots of people live in silence.
所以，这是一个巨大的问题，而且确实没有得到充分重视和污名化，很多人都生活在沉默中。
Konstantina Stankovic: For example, for those who have problems with their vision, they wear glasses, and glasses can restore their vision back to normal, to the point that people now wear glasses even if they don't need them.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：比如，对于那些视力有问题的人来说，他们戴眼镜，眼镜可以使他们的视力恢复正常，以至于现在人们即使不需要眼镜也戴眼镜。
It's a fashion statement.
这是一种时尚宣言。
However, that's not the case for hearing loss, and it's because hearing aids are aids, like the name says.
然而，听力损失的情况并非如此，因为助听器就像它的名字所说的那样，就是辅助工具。
They don't restore hearing back to normal.
它们不会使听力恢复正常。
So to answer your question, I think we really should review how hearing works.
因此，为了回答你的问题，我认为我们真的应该回顾一下听力是如何工作的。
Konstantina Stankovic: So the way we hear is when sound comes and travels down the ear canal, it vibrates the eardrum.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以我们听到的方式是当声音传入并沿着耳道传播时，它会振动耳膜。
The fancy term for it is the tympanic membrane.
它的奇特术语是鼓膜。
That sets in motion the smallest bones in the body.
这会启动体内最小的骨骼。
They're called the malleus, incus, and stapes, which is Latin for the hammer, the anvil, and the stir bone.
它们被称为锤骨、砧骨和镫骨，拉丁语中的意思是锤子、砧子和搅拌骨。
Konstantina Stankovic: As they vibrate, they set in motion fluids in the inner ear, and this is where these incredibly delicate sensory cells reside.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：当它们振动时，它们会引起内耳中的液体运动，而这就是这些极其脆弱的感觉细胞所在的地方。
They're called hair cells, but that has nothing to do with this hair.
它们被称为毛细胞，但这与头发无关。
Konstantina Stankovic: And as they deflect their sensors on top of their surface, which are called stereocilia, that leads to flow of ionic current and release of neurotransmitter and excitation of the auditory nerve, which then sends signals all the way to the brain.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：当它们偏转其表面上的传感器（称为静纤毛）时，会导致离子电流流动、神经递质释放和听觉神经兴奋，然后听觉神经将信号一路发送到大脑。
Konstantina Stankovic: So in the inner ear, occurs this, it's called mechano-electrical transduction, because we are converting a mechanical stimulus into an electrical one.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：在内耳中会发生这种情况，这被称为机械电传导，因为我们正在将机械刺激转换为电刺激。
And there are two broad categories of hearing loss.
听力损失分为两大类。
One is the so-called conductive hearing loss and the other is sensory neural hearing loss.
一种是所谓的传导性听力损失，另一种是感觉神经性听力损失。
The conductive hearing loss, affects the ability of sounds to be conducted to the inner ear.
传导性听力损失会影响声音传导至内耳的能力。
Konstantina Stankovic: That can be if there is a hole in the eardrum or there's fluid behind the eardrum, or these hearing bones don't vibrate, they're frozen, because of a disease process.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这可能是因为鼓膜上有一个洞，或者鼓膜后面有液体，或者这些听骨不振动，它们由于疾病过程而被冻结。
There are surgical treatment options for that type of hearing loss, and non-surgicals, which include amplification with hearing aids.
对于这种类型的听力损失，有手术治疗选择和非手术治疗方法，其中包括使用助听器放大声音。
So that's an easier type of hearing loss to have.
所以这是一种更容易出现听力损失的类型。
But the more common type of hearing loss is the sensory neural hearing loss.
但更常见的听力损失类型是感觉神经性听力损失。
Konstantina Stankovic: It's the one that originates from the inner ear.
Konstantina Stankovic：这是源自内耳的声音。
And why it's been so challenging to study and to crack that nut is because it's tiny.
为什么研究和破解这个难题如此具有挑战性，因为它很小。
It's a tiny organ, it's encased in the densest bone in the body, and it's located deep in the base of the skull.
它是一个微小的器官，包裹在身体最致密的骨头中，位于颅骨底部深处。
You may even ask, “How tiny?” If you take a penny, then you'll notice that Lincoln is on a penny.
你甚至可能会问：“有多小？”如果你拿一分钱，你就会发现林肯就在一分钱上。
Konstantina Stankovic: So the human organ of hearing, which is called the cochlea, in cross-section, is the size of Lincoln's upper face on a penny.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：人体听觉器官（称为耳蜗）的横截面大小相当于一分硬币上林肯上脸的大小。
Andrew Huberman: Wow, that's small.
Andrew Huberman：哇，那很小。
Konstantina Stankovic: Super small.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：超级小。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And that organ is filled with fluid.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：那个器官充满了液体。
How much fluid?
多少液体？
What's your guess?
你的猜测是什么？
What's the volume of this inner ear fluid?
内耳液体的体积是多少？
It even has a fancy term, it's called perilymph and endolymph.
它甚至有一个奇特的术语，称为外淋巴和内淋巴。
There are two types of fluid.
有两种类型的流体。
But that doesn't matter.
但这并不重要。
What matters is the scale.
重要的是规模。
So, how much fluid do you think there is?
那么，您认为有多少液体？
Andrew Huberman: I'm guessing the equivalent of one, less than one drop out of an eyedropper.
Andrew Huberman：我猜相当于从滴管中滴出一滴，不到一滴。
Konstantina Stankovic: That's pretty close.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：非常接近了。
It's actually the equivalent of three raindrops.
它实际上相当于三个雨滴。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
Konstantina Stankovic: So about 140 microliters.
Konstantina Stankovic：大约 140 微升。
So this is an organ that's amazing.
所以这是一个令人惊奇的器官。
It is the most sensitive sensory organ.
它是最敏感的感觉器官。
It can detect displacements that are on the order of the diameter of a hydrogen atom.
它可以检测氢原子直径数量级的位移。
That's astounding.
太令人震惊了。
Konstantina Stankovic: If you just think in terms of electronic chips, the traces are now on the order of one nanometer, which is the size of five silicon atoms.
Konstantina Stankovic：如果你只考虑电子芯片，那么现在的痕迹约为一纳米，相当于五个硅原子的大小。
But the ear can detect displacements that are one-tenth of that.
但耳朵可以检测到的位移仅为其十分之一。
Andrew Huberman: So, at the angstrom level?
Andrew Huberman：那么，在埃级？
Konstantina Stankovic: Sub-angstrom level.
Konstantina Stankovic：亚埃级。
Andrew Huberman: Sub-angstrom?
Andrew Huberman：亚埃？
Konstantina Stankovic: Sub-angstrom level.
Konstantina Stankovic：亚埃级。
It's really phenomenal.
这真是太神奇了。
And another example to really highlight the sensitivity of this organ, if you have a trained violinist, if they move their finger by only a micron, so that's a millionth of a meter, the ear can perceive that as a change in pitch.
另一个真正强调这个器官敏感性的例子，如果你有一个训练有素的小提琴手，如果他们只移动手指一微米，即百万分之一米，耳朵就能将其感知为音高的变化。
Andrew Huberman: Amazing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
Konstantina Stankovic: You can't see that with your naked eye, but the ear can perceive it.
Konstantina Stankovic：肉眼看不到这一点，但耳朵可以感知到。
So these examples really highlight how delicate this organ is.
所以这些例子确实凸显了这个器官是多么脆弱。
And another absolutely stunning thing about the ear is that there are these cells, there are sensory cells that we talked about, but they are called inner and outer hair cells.
关于耳朵的另一个绝对令人惊叹的事情是，有这些细胞，有我们谈到的感觉细胞，但它们被称为内毛细胞和外毛细胞。
And what's special about these outer hair cells, they actually move, but they move at audio frequencies.
这些外毛细胞的特别之处在于，它们实际上会移动，但它们以音频频率移动。
Konstantina Stankovic: So what does that mean?
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：那这是什么意思？
To put it in perspective, let's say that the heart beats at 60 beats per minute, which is one hertz.
换个角度来说，假设心脏每分钟跳动 60 次，即 1 赫兹。
If the heart starts beating at two hertz, 120 beats per minute, that's arrhythmia, that could be life-threatening.
如果心脏开始以 2 赫兹（即每分钟 120 次）的速度跳动，那就是心律失常，可能会危及生命。
Well, these cells in the inner ear move, in humans, up to 20,000 hertz, and in bats, up to 100,000 hertz.
嗯，人类内耳中的这些细胞的移动速度高达 20,000 赫兹，而蝙蝠的移动速度则高达 100,000 赫兹。
Konstantina Stankovic: So this is to tell you how incredible this system is, and it's designed to let us detect sounds, and, it's evolved so that we can detect sounds at any point in a day or night.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以这是为了告诉你这个系统是多么令人难以置信，它的设计目的是让我们检测声音，并且它的发展使我们可以在白天或晚上的任何时间检测声音。
Sound travels through any media, sound travels around obstacles.
声音可以通过任何介质传播，也可以绕过障碍物传播。
It's really essential for survival.
这对于生存确实至关重要。
Konstantina Stankovic: There are species that don't even have vision, they are blind, and they are surviving superbly well because of their incredibly astute sense of hearing, like bats or moles.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：有些物种甚至没有视力，它们是盲人，但由于它们的听觉极其敏锐，它们生存得非常好，比如蝙蝠或鼹鼠。
Andrew Huberman: Can I just ask a question about sound waves themselves?
Andrew Huberman：我可以问一个关于声波本身的问题吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Could you differentiate for us how high versus low frequency sounds, travel further or have a greater propensity to impact the movement of the eardrum; which you beautifully explained is the consequence of, a bunch of mechanical features and the, the endolymph, and you said the other lymph?
Andrew Huberman：您能否为我们区分声音的高频与低频、传播距离或影响耳膜运动的倾向？你完美地解释了这是一堆机械特征和内淋巴的结果，你说的是其他淋巴？
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯
Konstantina Stankovic: Perilymph.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：外淋巴。
Andrew Huberman: Perilymph.
安德鲁·休伯曼：外淋巴。
So, I want people to get this image in their mind that sound waves, not voices, not music, but sound waves are traveling through space, arrive to the ear, and then they are converted into a mechanical pressure that changes over time, like the beating of a drum, eardrum, that then is converted into pressure within this lymph fluid, which then moves these little hair, quote unquote “hair cells,” which then activates neuronal signals, they go up to the brain and it;
所以，我希望人们在脑海中形成这样的图像：声波，不是声音，不是音乐，而是声波穿过空间，到达耳朵，然后它们被转换成随时间变化的机械压力，就像鼓、鼓膜的敲击声，然后转换成淋巴液内的压力，然后移动这些小毛发，引用未引用的“毛细胞”，然后激活神经元信号，它们上升到大脑；
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Remarkably, I mean, to this day, I'm a, you know, neuroscientist, and it still blows my mind that then we perceive language, we perceive music, we recognize a cry versus laughter.
安德鲁·休伯曼：值得注意的是，我的意思是，直到今天，我是一名神经科学家，我们感知语言、感知音乐、识别哭声与笑声，这仍然让我震惊。
And it all happens very, very fast.
这一切发生得非常非常快。
I think most people don't think about hearing that way, and so could you explain for us the elements within sound waves that create this incredible architecture that we call the perception of hearing?
我认为大多数人不会以这种方式思考听力，所以您能为我们解释一下声波中的元素，这些元素创造了我们称之为听觉感知的令人难以置信的结构吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Sounds as they set in motion the tympanic membrane, the eardrum, and then lead to motion of hearing bones; there are different modes of vibration depending on both sound intensity and frequency.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇（Konstantina Stankovic）：声音使鼓膜、鼓膜运动，然后导致听骨运动；根据声音强度和频率，有不同的振动模式。
Once they get transmitted to vibration within the inner ear, everything is tuned in the inner ear.
一旦它们传递到内耳内的振动，一切都会在内耳中进行调整。
So the cochlea is a coiled organ.
所以耳蜗是一个盘绕的器官。
Konstantina Stankovic: Cochlea even means snail in Greek.
Konstantina Stankovic：Cochlea 在希腊语中甚至意味着蜗牛。
So now if you uncoil it, then it's a tube, and high frequencies are encoded at the base, close to the middle ear and low frequencies, far away at the apex.
所以现在如果你把它展开，那么它就是一根管子，高频在靠近中耳的底部编码，低频在远离顶点的地方编码。
And so when sound waves come in, if they have high frequency, they will cause primarily vibration at the base of the cochlea.
因此，当声波进入时，如果它们具有高频，它们将主要引起耳蜗底部的振动。
Konstantina Stankovic: If they have low frequency, they have to travel all the way up, and this is where speech resides, at higher frequencies.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：如果它们的频率较低，它们就必须一直向上传播，这就是高频语音所在的位置。
It's interesting that the high frequency, end of the cochlea, tends to be more vulnerable to various insults like noise levels that you pointed out; certain drugs and aging.
有趣的是，耳蜗末端的高频往往更容易受到各种侮辱，例如您指出的噪音水平；某些药物与衰老。
Konstantina Stankovic: Now, in terms of music being so essential for being human and our ability to communicate, this is a podcast, so it highlights how important our ability to communicate and hear that communication; is essential.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：现在，就音乐对于人类和我们的沟通能力如此重要而言，这是一个播客，因此它强调了我们沟通和听到这种沟通的能力有多么重要；是必不可少的。
It can create vivid experiences.
它可以创造生动的体验。
It can be very engaging even without seeing people.
即使没有见到人，它也可以非常吸引人。
Konstantina Stankovic: And looking at that throughout history, for example; Socrates in ancient Greece said, “Speak so that I can see you.” And then in the medieval years, it was a French writer and physician François Rabelais, who said; “Of all the senses, hearing is the fittest for the reception of the arts, sciences and disciplines.”
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：例如，纵观历史；古希腊的苏格拉底说：“请说话，以便我能看到你。”然后在中世纪，法国作家兼医生弗朗索瓦·拉伯雷（François Rabelais）说过： “在所有感官中，听觉最适合接受艺术、科学和学科。”
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And then 500 years later, Helen Keller, who was both blind and deaf and is one of the most celebrated people of the 20th century said, “Deafness is a worse misfortune because it separates you from people as opposed to things.” So, that gets at your question of why is hearing important for us?
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：500 年后，既盲又聋、20 世纪最著名的人物之一海伦·凯勒说：“耳聋是一种更糟糕的不幸，因为它将你与人而不是物分开。”那么，这就引出了您的问题：为什么听力对我们很重要？
Konstantina Stankovic: It's important not only to communicate; that's direct relevance, but there are indirect major effects on how we feel on our emotional, relational and cognitive well-being.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：重要的不仅是沟通，还有。这是直接相关的，但对我们的情感、关系和认知健康的感受也有间接的重大影响。
Andrew Huberman: In today's financial landscape of constant market shifts and chaotic news, it's easy to feel uncertain about where to keep your money.
Andrew Huberman：在当今市场不断变化、新闻混乱的金融环境中，人们很容易不确定该把钱放在哪里。
However, saving and investing does not have to be complicated.
然而，储蓄和投资并不一定很复杂。
There's a solution that can help you take control of your finances while still managing risk, and that's Wealthfront.
有一种解决方案可以帮助您控制财务，同时仍然管理风险，这就是 Wealthfront。
I've trusted Wealthfront with my finances for nearly a decade.
近十年来，我一直信任 Wealthfront 来管理我的财务。
With the Wealthfront cash account, I can earn 3.75% APY, annual percentage yield, on my cash from program banks.
通过 Wealthfront 现金账户，我可以从计划银行获得 3.75% APY（年收益率）。
Andrew Huberman: I know my money is growing until I'm ready to spend it or invest it.
Andrew Huberman：我知道我的钱会不断增长，直到我准备好花钱或投资为止。
With my Wealthfront cash account, my money is eligible for up to $8 million in FDIC insurance through program banks, which adds an extra layer of security.
凭借我的 Wealthfront 现金账户，我的资金有资格通过计划银行获得高达 800 万美元的 FDIC 保险，这增加了额外的安全保障。
One of the features I love about Wealthfront is that I have access to instant no-fee withdrawals to eligible accounts 24/7.
我喜欢 Wealthfront 的功能之一是我可以 24/7 即时免费提款到符合条件的账户。
That means I can move my money where I need it without waiting even in volatile conditions.
这意味着即使在不稳定的情况下，我也可以将资金转移到需要的地方，而无需等待。
Andrew Huberman: And when I'm ready to transition from saving to investing, Wealthfront lets me seamlessly transfer my funds into one of their expert built portfolios.
Andrew Huberman：当我准备从储蓄过渡到投资时，Wealthfront 可以让我将资金无缝转移到他们专家构建的投资组合之一。
Right now, Wealthfront is offering Huberman Lab podcast listeners an additional half percent boost over the base rate for three months, meaning you can get 4.25% APY on up to $250,000 in deposits.
目前，Wealthfront 为 Huberman Lab 播客听众提供了三个月基本费率的额外 0.5% 的提升，这意味着您最多 250,000 美元的存款可以获得 4.25% 的年利率。
More than one million people already trust Wealthfront to save more, earn more, and build long-term wealth with confidence.
已有超过一百万人相信 Wealthfront 能够满怀信心地储蓄更多、赚取更多收入并建立长期财富。
Andrew Huberman: If you'd like to try Wealthfront, go to wealthfront.com/huberman to receive the boosted APY offer and start earning 4.25% APY today.
Andrew Huberman：如果您想尝试Wealthfront，请访问wealthfront.com/huberman 以获得APY 提升优惠，并从今天开始赚取4.25% APY。
That's wealthfront.com/huberman to get started.
请从 Fortunefront.com/huberman 开始。
This is a paid testimonial of Wealthfront.
这是 Wealthfront 的付费推荐。
Client experiences will vary.
客户体验会有所不同。
Wealthfront brokerage isn't a bank.
Wealthfront 经纪公司不是银行。
The APY is subject to change.
APY 可能会发生变化。
For more information, see the episode description.
有关更多信息，请参阅剧集描述。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Our Place.
今天的节目也是由我们的地方给我们带来的。
Our Place makes my favorite pots, pans, and other cookware.
我们的地方生产我最喜欢的锅、平底锅和其他炊具。
Andrew Huberman: Surprisingly, toxic compounds such as PFAS or forever chemicals are still found in 80% of non-stick pans, as well as utensils, appliances and countless other kitchen products.
Andrew Huberman：令人惊讶的是，80% 的不粘锅以及器皿、电器和无数其他厨房产品中仍然含有 PFAS 或永久化学物质等有毒化合物。
As I've discussed before in this podcast, these PFAS or forever chemicals like Teflon have been linked to major health issues such as hormone disruption, gut microbiome disruption, fertility issues, and many other health problems.
正如我之前在本播客中讨论过的，这些 PFAS 或永久性化学物质（如特氟龙）与荷尔蒙紊乱、肠道微生物组破坏、生育问题和许多其他健康问题等重大健康问题有关。
So it's really important to try and avoid them.
因此，尝试避免它们非常重要。
This is why I'm a huge fan of Our Place.
这就是为什么我是《我们的地方》的超级粉丝。
Andrew Huberman: Our Place products are made with the highest quality materials and are all completely PFAS and toxin-free.
Andrew Huberman：我们的 Place 产品采用最优质的材料制成，并且完全不含 PFAS 和毒素。
I especially love their Titanium Always Pan Pro.
我特别喜欢他们的 Titanium Always Pan Pro。
It's the first non-stick pan made with zero chemicals and zero coating.
这是第一个采用零化学品和零涂层制成的不粘锅。
Instead, it uses pure titanium.
相反，它使用纯钛。
This means it has no harmful forever chemicals and does not degrade or lose its non-stick effect over time.
这意味着它不含永久有害的化学物质，并且不会随着时间的推移而降解或失去其不粘效果。
It's also beautiful to look at.
看起来也很漂亮。
I cook eggs in my Titanium Always Pan Pro almost every morning.
我几乎每天早上都会用 Titanium Always Pan Pro 煮鸡蛋。
The design allows for the eggs to cook perfectly without sticking to the pan.
该设计使鸡蛋能够完美烹饪而不会粘在锅上。
Andrew Huberman: I also cook burgers and steaks in it, and it puts a really nice sear on the meat.
Andrew Huberman：我还用它来做汉堡和牛排，它给肉带来了非常好的烤焦效果。
But again, nothing sticks to it, so it's really easy to clean and it's even dishwasher safe.
但同样，没有任何东西粘在上面，所以它非常容易清洁，甚至可以用洗碗机清洗。
I love it, and I basically use it constantly.
我很喜欢它，而且我基本上一直在使用它。
Our Place now has a full line of Titanium Pro Cookware that uses its first of its kind titanium non-stick technology.
我们的地方现在拥有全系列的钛专业炊具，采用其首创的钛不粘技术。
So if you're looking for non-toxic, long-lasting pots and pans, go to fromourplace.com/huberman and use the code HUBERMAN at checkout.
因此，如果您正在寻找无毒、耐用的锅碗瓢盆，请访问 fromourplace.com/huberman 并在结帐时使用代码 HUBERMAN。
Andrew Huberman: With a 100-day risk free trial, free shipping and free returns, you can experience this terrific cookware with zero risk.
Andrew Huberman：通过 100 天无风险试用、免费送货和免费退货，您可以零风险体验这款出色的炊具。
Andrew Huberman: I'd like to return to this close relationship between what we hear and how we feel.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我想回到我们所听到的和我们所感受到的之间的密切关系。
But, before we do that; let's say I were in the wilderness and I was lost and I was trying to find my way back and I was out of water, and I spot somebody on the horizon, and I wanted to call out to them with the greatest probability that they could hear me.
但是，在我们这样做之前；假设我在荒野中迷路了，我试图找到回去的路，但我没了水，我发现地平线上有人，我想以他们能听到我的最大可能性呼唤他们。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Would I call out in a higher pitched, lower pitched, or whatever my typical voice happened to be, assuming that I'm going to call out at the greatest intensity in either case?
Andrew Huberman：假设我在任何一种情况下都会以最大强度大声喊叫，我会用更高的音调、更低的音调还是任何我典型的声音来喊叫？
Which sound frequency is going to travel furthest and/or have the greatest likelihood of reaching somebody's ears and having them perceive it?
哪种声音频率传播最远和/或最有可能到达某人的耳朵并让他们感知？
Konstantina Stankovic: You partly answered your question because sound intensity is the key, and as humans, we can produce only sounds of certain frequencies and throughout history, people have used horns.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：您部分回答了您的问题，因为声音强度是关键，而作为人类，我们只能发出特定频率的声音，并且在整个历史上，人们都使用喇叭。
Horns really work.
喇叭确实有用。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And so that, that would be the first thing that you do, and you can even create it like this yourself to project-
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，这将是你要做的第一件事，你甚至可以自己创建这样的项目来投影-
Andrew Huberman: --Okay, put your hands on either side of your mouth.
Andrew Huberman：——好吧，把手放在嘴的两侧。
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly, to project, but if you have a longer horn, use that.
Konstantina Stankovic：没错，是为了投射，但如果你有一个更长的号角，就用它。
That really works.
这确实有效。
In terms of our human ability to detect tones, in every species, it's a sensitivity curve.
就我们人类检测音调的能力而言，在每个物种中，它都是一条灵敏度曲线。
So, when we test hearing in clinic, we test it only up to eight kilohertz, but we can hear up to 20,000 hertz.
所以，当我们在临床测试听力时，我们只测试到八千赫兹，但我们可以听到高达20,000赫兹的声音。
And it's because most of speech really lives below that frequency.
这是因为大多数语音实际上都低于该频率。
Konstantina Stankovic: Lots of speech lives between 250 hertz and 4,000 hertz.
Konstantina Stankovic：很多语音的频率都在 250 赫兹到 4,000 赫兹之间。
And if you speak at those levels, which we do because that's what we do as humans, women can have more high-pitched voices or children can have more high-pitched voices, but it's still in the range of optimal human hearing.
如果你以这些水平说话，我们这样做是因为这就是我们作为人类所做的，女性可以有更高音调的声音，或者儿童可以有更高音调的声音，但它仍然在人类最佳听力范围内。
That's what you would need to do.
这就是你需要做的。
Konstantina Stankovic: So then all you have to do when you're in a situation like that is speak as loudly as you can, and if you can, find a horn so that it amplifies.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，当你处于这种情况时，你所要做的就是尽可能大声说话，如果可以的话，找到一个喇叭，以便放大声音。
Andrew Huberman: And if you don't have a horn, put your hand on either sides of your mouth; which we do intuitively.
Andrew Huberman：如果你没有喇叭，请将手放在嘴的两侧；我们凭直觉这样做。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Intuitively, exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：凭直觉，完全正确。
Andrew Huberman: And if we need to hear something at a distance, we put our hand to our ear, in order to create a temporarily larger ear.
安德鲁·休伯曼：如果我们需要听到远处的声音，我们就会把手放在耳朵上，以暂时变大耳朵。
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
Konstantina Stankovic: And that works too.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这也有效。
It absolutely works.
它绝对有效。
Our patients tell us it works.
我们的患者告诉我们它有效。
Sometimes in the clinic, if people don't have a hearing aid and they are really hard of hearing and they don't know how to lip read, and they don't want to be reading what's being written, that's what they do, and it really makes a difference.
有时在诊所里，如果人们没有助听器，他们听力确实很差，他们不知道如何唇读，他们也不想阅读所写的内容，他们就会这么做，这确实会产生影响。
Andrew Huberman: Because it's capturing the sound waves into a funnel.
Andrew Huberman：因为它将声波捕获到漏斗中。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes, exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的，完全正确。
Andrew Huberman: Other animals, most famously the desert fox or the fennec fox have these really cute tall ears that they can direct independently.
安德鲁·休伯曼：其他动物，最著名的是沙漠狐或耳廓狐，它们有非常可爱的高耳朵，可以独立指挥。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Am I correct in thinking that some people can move their ears and other people can't?
Andrew Huberman：我认为有些人可以移动耳朵而其他人则不能，这样的想法正确吗？
I don't think I can do it.
我想我做不到。
I've never practiced it.
我从来没有实践过。
It didn't seem like a worthwhile thing to try and generate that skill.
尝试并产生这种技能似乎并不值得。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But I know people, that can move their ears either together or independently a little bit.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但我认识一些人，他们的耳朵可以一起移动，也可以独立移动一点。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Is this a vestigial thing from, I don't know, from some other animal that we once were?
安德鲁·休伯曼：我不知道，这是我们曾经的其他动物的遗迹吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah, it's vestigial.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的，这是退化的。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Some people indeed can do it.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：有些人确实可以做到。
It's not common, and as far as we know, doesn't convey any advantage in modern world to human hearing.
这并不常见，而且据我们所知，它在现代世界中并没有给人类听力带来任何优势。
Andrew Huberman: I know this might seem like a silly question, but based on the pure mechanics of everything we're talking about, especially ears, do people with larger ears hear better than people with smaller ears?
Andrew Huberman：我知道这似乎是一个愚蠢的问题，但基于我们所讨论的一切的纯粹机制，尤其是耳朵，耳朵较大的人比耳朵较小的人听得更好吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: I don't think that's been studied.
Konstantina Stankovic：我认为还没有对此进行过研究。
Andrew Huberman: Oh, okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，好吧。
Konstantina Stankovic: I, certainly haven't come across data to support that.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我当然没有找到支持这一点的数据。
In human body, things tend to be very proportional, and they grow with time.
在人体中，事物往往是非常成比例的，并且它们随着时间的推移而增长。
Children tend to, reach their adult ear size around age 10.
儿童往往在 10 岁左右达到成人耳朵的大小。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: So for example, those who are born without the outer ear altogether, that's called microtia, we can make it, but the timing of surgery has to be conducted appropriately so that you don't give them too small of an ear if you operate too early.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：比如说，那些天生没有外耳的人，也就是所谓的小耳症，我们可以做到，但手术的时机必须适当，这样如果手术太早，就不会让他们的耳朵太小。
Andrew Huberman: These days, there's a lot of content online about how different sounds can impact the emotionality of kids, independent of learning, sort of innate sound-emotion relationships.
Andrew Huberman：如今，网上有很多内容介绍不同的声音如何影响孩子的情绪，与学习无关，是一种与生俱来的声音与情绪的关系。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯，嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I actually don't know whether or not these, these posts are ethical or not.
Andrew Huberman：我实际上不知道这些帖子是否道德。
It's hard for me to know because what they show is babies, it's typically a series of clips with babies, where they'll say something.
我很难知道，因为他们展示的是婴儿，通常是一系列有婴儿的剪辑，他们会在其中说些什么。
I forget what it is, and it's probably best that I forget so that people don't do this and try it, 'cause I don't know the ethics around it.
我忘记了它是什么，而且最好我忘记，这样人们就不会这样做并尝试它，因为我不知道它的道德规范。
But they'll say something to their kid, and it's not a word.
但他们会对孩子说些什么，但不是一个字。
It's like, it's a sound, and the kid will suddenly either be terrified or suddenly be really happy, and there's no indication that that sound is a scary sound or a happy sound.
就像，这是一个声音，孩子会突然感到害怕或突然非常高兴，并且没有迹象表明该声音是可怕的声音或快乐的声音。
It's not like they're screaming at the kid or barking at the kid, so it seems to be that they're, people have learned to tap into these frequencies, and intensities, but it tends to be pretty low intensity, at least by my listen of these things.
这不像他们对孩子尖叫或对孩子吠叫，所以人们似乎已经学会利用这些频率和强度，但强度往往相当低，至少从我听到的这些事情来看是这样。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman: But; very strong coupling of sound and emotion, independent of learning, and I say independent of learning because, of course, I hear certain pieces of music and they really move me emotionally, but I have a relationship to that music that I formed over time, or it's similar to a different piece I heard over time.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但是；声音和情感的耦合非常强，独立于学习，我说独立于学习是因为，当然，我听到某些音乐片段，它们确实在情感上感动了我，但我与随着时间的推移形成的音乐有一种关系，或者它与我随着时间的推移听到的不同的音乐相似。
What is known about the convergence of sound information and emotion?
关于声音信息和情感的融合，我们知道多少？
And let's leave outside, you know, big loud bangs or, you know, high shrill things that really, like, impact our pain system.
让我们把那些确实会影响我们的疼痛系统的巨响或者尖锐的声音留在外面。
So, is there something known about how different sounds impact emotionality?
那么，是否有关于不同声音如何影响情绪的已知信息？
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯
Konstantina Stankovic: Oh yes!
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：哦，是的！
Absolutely.
绝对地。
That, really; the brain has evolved to perceive and manage sensory inputs.
那个，真的；大脑已经进化到能够感知和管理感官输入。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And sound is one of these sensory inputs, and it's critical for emotional well-being.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：声音是感官输入之一，它对于情绪健康至关重要。
We have thus far talked about the periphery, what happens in the inner ear and how those signals are then transmitted all the way to the brain.
到目前为止，我们已经讨论了外周、内耳发生的情况以及这些信号如何一路传输到大脑。
Well, there are numerous relay stations from the ear to the brain, to the cortex.
嗯，从耳朵到大脑，再到皮质，有无数的中继站。
They are in the, brain stem and midbrain all the way to the cortex.
它们位于脑干和中脑，一直到皮质。
Konstantina Stankovic: And these auditory pathways have very strong links with emotional pathways and the limbic system.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这些听觉通路与情感通路和边缘系统有很强的联系。
And in fact, that's why music, hearing music can really move us.
事实上，这就是为什么音乐、听音乐能够真正感动我们。
That's why, remarkable speeches of impressive leaders can get people aroused and motivated to do something.
这就是为什么，令人印象深刻的领导人的精彩演讲可以激发人们的热情并激励他们去做某事。
Konstantina Stankovic: So that link between hearing and emotion is really strong, well-established, and sometimes can be detrimental, for example, for people with tinnitus.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇（Konstantina Stankovic）：因此，听力和情感之间的联系确实很强、很明确，但有时可能是有害的，例如，对于耳鸣患者来说。
So tinnitus, it's a phantom sound.
所以耳鸣，是幻音。
It's produced by the brain, typically in response to a reduced input to the brain.
它是由大脑产生的，通常是对大脑输入减少的反应。
So the brain makes up the sound that it's normally not detecting.
因此，大脑会发出通常无法检测到的声音。
Konstantina Stankovic: It's similar to phantom limb pain, where people don't have an arm or a leg, but they can still perceive pain in the limb that they don't have.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这类似于幻肢痛，人们没有手臂或腿，但他们仍然可以感知到他们没有的肢体的疼痛。
So now, some people with tinnitus can just put it in the background.
所以现在，一些耳鸣的人可以把它放在后台。
They can ignore it.
他们可以忽略它。
They are reassured by knowing that it's not life-threatening and it's fine.
当他们知道这不会危及生命并且没事时，他们就放心了。
But there are people who can't handle it.
但也有人无法应对。
They are really severely disabled by it, and some are suicidal, which is a huge spectrum.
他们确实因此而严重残疾，有些人有自杀倾向，这是一个很大的范围。
And why is that?
这是为什么呢？
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: So clearly, these circuits in the brain are differently connected for different people.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：很明显，不同的人大脑中的这些回路有不同的连接方式。
And in some, that emotional component is really amplified.
在某些情况下，这种情感成分确实被放大了。
Andrew Huberman: Interesting.
安德鲁·休伯曼：有趣。
Many people have heard of ASMR.
很多人都听说过 ASMR。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Auditory sensory meridian reflex, I think it's called.
Andrew Huberman：我认为它被称为听觉感觉经络反射。
This is something that, sure there are accounts online where people will whisper, or they'll scratch, or they'll scratch a microphone.
当然，网上有一些帐户，人们会窃窃私语，或者他们会刮擦，或者他们会刮擦麦克风。
I won't do it here.
我不会在这里做。
Some people find certain sounds extremely pleasant.
有些人发现某些声音非常令人愉悦。
Other people find the same sounds extremely aversive.
其他人则觉得同样的声音极其令人厌恶。
Andrew Huberman: Actually, I was thinking for a moment about fingers on a chalkboard.
安德鲁·休伯曼：实际上，我想了一下黑板上的手指。
And it's enough to make me cringe.
这足以让我感到畏缩。
Like, my, I tighten up.
就像，我的，我收紧了。
It's like, it's a, as if I'm ready to get, you know, hit by something.
就好像，就好像我已经准备好，你知道，被什么东西击中。
I think many people hearing this will imagine that sound.
我想很多人听到这个都会想象那个声音。
It's the same thing.
这是同样的事情。
Konstantina Stankovic: Ah!
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：啊！
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah!
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的！
Andrew Huberman: Is the relationship between our cringing, our physical cringing, and these high-frequency sounds, is that a pain offset mechanism?
安德鲁·休伯曼：我们的畏缩、身体的畏缩和这些高频声音之间的关系是一种疼痛抵消机制吗？
You know, in other words, in the visual system, if you just show someone a really bright light, they'll raise their hands.
换句话说，在视觉系统中，如果你向某人展示非常明亮的光，他们就会举手。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm hmm, mm hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯，嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: They'll turn, turn away.
安德鲁·休伯曼：他们会转身，转身离开。
It's to protect their retinas.
这是为了保护他们的视网膜。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And it's a reflex.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这是一种反射。
It's a hardwired reflex.
这是一种硬连线反射。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And when we're sick, incidentally, there's a, this incredible reflex pathway that sort of becomes unveiled that we always have, which gives us photophobia.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：顺便说一句，当我们生病时，我们总是有一条令人难以置信的反射通路，它会暴露出来，这会让我们畏光。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Bright light that we normally might like, suddenly becomes aversive, and it can give us headaches and this kind of thing.
Andrew Huberman：我们通常喜欢的明亮光线突然变得令人厌恶，它会让我们头痛之类的事情。
Are there similar pathways in the auditory system?
听觉系统中是否也存在类似的通路？
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯，嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: There are.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：有。
There is this phenomenon of hyperacusis or even phonophobia.
存在这种听觉过敏甚至恐声症的现象。
And when it comes to hyperacusis, it frequently accompanies hearing loss.
当谈到听觉过敏时，它经常伴随着听力损失。
And really, what happens in people with hearing loss is that sounds have to be loud enough for them to hear them.
事实上，对于听力损失的人来说，声音必须足够大才能让他们听到。
But if they are too loud, that can be painful, very uncomfortable.
但如果声音太大，就会很痛苦、很不舒服。
Konstantina Stankovic: So their dynamic range of hearing is reduced.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以他们的听力动态范围降低了。
And, pretty much everybody with hearing loss experiences that.
而且，几乎每个患有听力损失的人都会经历过这种情况。
Now, to have a real fear of sound, phonophobia, that's not common, and it's usually linked with some underlying mental health condition.
现在，对声音产生真正的恐惧，即声音恐惧症，这种情况并不常见，而且通常与某些潜在的心理健康状况有关。
It's more common in people with obsessive-compulsive, disorder or personality trait and other conditions.
多见于有强迫症、精神障碍或人格特质等病症的人。
Andrew Huberman: So interesting how the timbre of somebody's voice leaves a mark on us.
Andrew Huberman：很有趣的是，某人的音色如何在我们身上留下印记。
Pleasant or unpleasant.
令人愉快或不愉快。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And going back to what you said earlier about hearing being so important and, you know, historically people really identifying that, I think we're all familiar with, something somebody said; perhaps by virtue of the way they said it and/or what they said, kind of ringing in our ears, keeping...
安德鲁·胡伯曼：回到你之前所说的听力是如此重要，你知道，历史上人们确实认识到这一点，我想我们都熟悉，有人说过的话；也许凭借他们说话的方式和/或他们所说的内容，有点在我们耳边响起，让……
You know we...
你知道我们...
It's hard to forget those things.
很难忘记这些事情。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Things we see, believe it or not, are pretty easy to unsee over time.
安德鲁·休伯曼：无论你信不信，我们看到的东西随着时间的推移很容易消失。
Some things that are very extreme, can leave a, you know; a post-traumatic stress stamp.
有些事情很极端，可以留下一个，你知道；创伤后压力印记。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But if you think about the number of violent and challenging images that we're bombarded with all the time, I mean, if you just go on X nowadays, I mean, it's very hard to not see something you didn't want to see.
Andrew Huberman：但是如果你想想我们一直受到的暴力和具有挑战性的图像的数量，我的意思是，如果你现在只是继续 X，我的意思是，很难不看到你不想看到的东西。
But you can kind of suppress that over time.
但随着时间的推移，你可以抑制这种情况。
It takes work.
这需要工作。
But if you hear something that's very disturbing, it's very hard to unhear it.
但如果你听到一些非常令人不安的事情，就很难不听到它。
It stays in our memory banks, quite a long time.
它在我们的记忆库中保留了相当长的时间。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: ...
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：...
but you are correct, and that can be true for both unpleasant and pleasant experiences.
但你是对的，对于不愉快和愉快的经历来说都是如此。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And you are absolutely correct that it goes into our memory bank.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：你说得对，它进入了我们的记忆库。
And how do we know that?
我们怎么知道这一点？
There are people who are profoundly deaf, and if they have been profoundly deaf for many years, and now they are becoming a candidate for having cochlear implant surgery, and that's surgery that bypasses any cells in the inner ear that could be missing or nonfunctional, and it directly electrically stimulates the auditory nerve.
有些人是重度耳聋，如果他们已经重度耳聋很多年了，现在他们正在成为人工耳蜗植入手术的候选人，这种手术绕过内耳中可能缺失或无功能的任何细胞，直接电刺激听觉神经。
Konstantina Stankovic: Before they have that cochlear implant surgery when they've been profoundly deaf, they can have memories of music that they used to listen to.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：在他们进行人工耳蜗植入手术之前，当他们已经严重失聪时，他们可以对过去听过的音乐有记忆。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, these are auditory hallucinations, but they are different...
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，这些都是幻听，但它们是不同的......
They're musical hallucinations.
它们是音乐幻觉。
They're not like auditory hallucinations that people with schizophrenia have.
它们不像精神分裂症患者的幻听。
They're not hearing voices.
他们听不到声音。
They're hearing symphonies and concerts in their head, whatever music they used to listen to.
他们在脑海中听到交响乐和音乐会，无论他们以前听什么音乐。
And what's fascinating is after they get the cochlear implant, and now they can hear speech, those musical hallucinations go away.
令人着迷的是，在他们植入人工耳蜗后，现在他们可以听到讲话了，那些音乐幻觉就消失了。
Andrew Huberman: Amazing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Amazing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
We'll get back to cochlear implants because I have a couple of friends in the deaf community, and my understanding is there's a very divergent stance on the cochlear implant within the deaf community, in part because the deaf community forms a lot of within-community and outside-of-community bonds through lip reading and through sign language and the cochlear implant really transforms the way they interact with the world.
我们将回到人工耳蜗，因为我在聋人社区中有几个朋友，我的理解是，聋人社区内对人工耳蜗的立场非常不同，部分原因是聋人社区通过唇读和手语形成了许多社区内和社区外的联系，而人工耳蜗确实改变了他们与世界互动的方式。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So we'll get back to that a little bit later.
Andrew Huberman：我们稍后再讨论这个问题。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: It's an interesting and, I must say, I was about to say controversial topic, but I've been really positively surprised, actually, how people in the deaf community are very open about talking about deafness, and repair of deafness, and whether or not they would want it or not want it.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：这是一个有趣的话题，我必须说，我本来要说一个有争议的话题，但实际上，我真的很惊讶，聋人社区的人们非常开放地谈论耳聋和耳聋的修复，以及他们是否想要它。
Andrew Huberman: Whereas, from my work as a vision scientist, most of the people in the low-vision, no-vision community, would say if they could get vision back or if they could get vision, they would take it, although they're...
安德鲁·休伯曼：然而，从我作为一名视觉科学家的工作来看，低视力、无视力群体中的大多数人都会说，如果他们能够恢复视力，或者如果他们能够获得视力，他们会接受它，尽管他们......
Right now, the technologies don't quite exist to go from completely blind throughout one's life to seeing, although those may be coming.
目前，让一个人一生从完全失明到恢复视力的技术还不存在，尽管这些技术可能即将到来。
In the meantime, let's talk about hearing loss.
与此同时，我们来谈谈听力损失。
Andrew Huberman: Let's talk about what happens when we go to a loud concert.
安德鲁·休伯曼：让我们来谈谈当我们去听一场吵闹的音乐会时会发生什么。
I fear I've done this, and you get too close to the speakers or they're just turned up too loud, and the acoustics of the room make it such that you have ringing in your ears the next day.
我担心我已经这样做了，而您离扬声器太近，或者扬声器开得太大声，房间的音响效果会让您第二天耳鸣。
If you have ringing in your ears after a concert or some other auditory experience, does that mean that some level of permanent damage was done?
如果您在音乐会或其他听觉体验后出现耳鸣，这是否意味着已经造成某种程度的永久性损伤？
Konstantina Stankovic: Possibly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：有可能。
Konstantina Stankovic: And why I say possibly is that until, maybe 10 years ago, we thought that if you go to a concert like that, you have ringing in your ears, you may even feel like your ear is clogged, and then it goes away, that that is temporary threshold shift.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：为什么我说可能是因为，直到大约十年前，我们认为如果你去参加这样的音乐会，你的耳鸣，你甚至可能感觉你的耳朵被堵塞，然后它就消失了，那是暂时的阈值转移。
But now we know that some forms of temporary threshold shift are in fact permanent.
但现在我们知道，某些形式的临时阈值转变实际上是永久性的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Although your hearing may come back, and in fact we can see it on audiometric testing, we now know that the wheel has been set in motion, where synapses that connect these sensory cells to neurons that contact them have been damaged or destroyed by loud sound.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：虽然你的听力可能会恢复，事实上我们可以在听力测试中看到它，但我们现在知道轮子已经开始转动，连接这些感觉细胞和接触它们的神经元的突触已被大声的声音损坏或破坏。
Konstantina Stankovic: It takes them a long time to degenerate, and in fact, it's led to the concept of the so-called hidden hearing loss.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：它们需要很长时间才能退化，事实上，这导致了所谓隐性听力损失的概念。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, there is obvious hearing loss that you can measure on audiograms, but now we have a new appreciation for the type of hearing loss that you are describing, and it's more common among young people, and if they go through standard audiometric testing, it'll be perfect.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，你可以通过听力图来测量明显的听力损失，但现在我们对你所描述的听力损失类型有了新的认识，而且这种情况在年轻人中更常见，如果他们接受标准听力测试，那就完美了。
All of their audiometric thresholds are fine.
他们所有的听力阈值都很好。
However, they report that they cannot hear clearly in a noisy background, or they have this tinnitus that they didn't have before.
然而，他们报告说，他们在嘈杂的背景下听不清楚，或者出现以前没有的耳鸣。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, what's now emerging from both animal and clinical data is that, indeed, there are anatomical correlates of this damage, and it typically involves synapses between sensory cells and neurons, or it may even involve hair cells and neurons themselves.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，现在从动物和临床数据中得出的结论是，这种损伤确实存在解剖学相关性，它通常涉及感觉细胞和神经元之间的突触，甚至可能涉及毛细胞和神经元本身。
So, what is the loud noise level?
那么，噪音水平是多少呢？
That was one of your questions.
这是你的问题之一。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: For example, right now we are speaking at about 60 decibel in terms of sound pressure level.
Konstantina Stankovic：例如，现在我们所说的声压级约为 60 分贝。
And what does that mean?
这意味着什么？
Decibel, it's a logarithmic scale because we had to compress an enormous scale that's really a million-fold from the softest sound to the loudest sound that we can hear.
分贝，它是一个对数尺度，因为我们必须压缩一个巨大的尺度，从最柔和的声音到我们能听到的最响亮的声音，实际上是一百万倍。
We compressed it to a linear scale.
我们将其压缩为线性比例。
That looks linear, it's not, but it's a logarithmic scale.
这看起来是线性的，其实不是，但它是一个对数尺度。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: So that's what DB is, and we can hear anywhere between 0 to 120 decibel and louder.
Konstantina Stankovic：这就是 DB，我们可以听到 0 到 120 分贝甚至更大的声音。
We can even hear a jet engine, and that's 140 decibel.
我们甚至可以听到喷气发动机的声音，那是 140 分贝。
And to calibrate us, if I'm now speaking at around 60 decibel, to come here, I had to take a plane, and the noise in the cabin is typically around 80 decibel.
为了校准我们，如果我现在以 60 分贝左右的声音说话，来到这里，我必须乘坐飞机，而机舱内的噪音通常约为 80 分贝。
If you drive a motorcycle, it's about 100 decibel.
如果你开摩托车的话，大约是100分贝。
Konstantina Stankovic: If you go to a concert that you have referred to, it's not uncommon that it's between 110 and 120 decibel, and jet engine is around 140 decibel.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：如果你去听你提到的一场音乐会，110 到 120 分贝之间的情况并不少见，喷气发动机的噪音在 140 分贝左右。
And the loudest noise level ever achieved at a football stadium was in Kansas City, and it was 142 decibel.
堪萨斯城足球场的噪音水平达到了 142 分贝。
That is deafening.
那是震耳欲聋的。
It's literally deafening because it's again, a logarithmic scale.
它确实是震耳欲聋的，因为它又是一个对数刻度。
Andrew Huberman: Literally deafening?
安德鲁·休伯曼：真的震耳欲聋？
Konstantina Stankovic: So, for every three decibel increase in sound intensity, you have to half the time exposure that's safe.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：因此，声音强度每增加三分贝，您就必须将安全的暴露时间减少一半。
So now, back to your question, what is safe?
现在，回到你的问题，什么是安全的？
Roughly speaking, 80 decibel is fine for eight hours.
粗略来说，80分贝八小时就可以了。
Konstantina Stankovic: But for any three decibel increase, you have to half it, which means 83 decibel is okay for four hours, 86 for two hours, 89 for one hour, 92 for half an hour.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：但是对于任何三分贝的增加，你都必须将其减半，这意味着 83 分贝可以持续四个小时，86 分贝可以持续两小时，89 分贝可以持续一小时，92 分贝可以持续半小时。
Well, most of music concerts that use amplified music are above 92 decibel.
嗯，大多数使用扩音音乐的音乐会都在92分贝以上。
But it's not that everyone develops hearing loss, and it's not that we have to stop enjoying music concerts at all.
但这并不是每个人都会出现听力损失，也不是我们必须完全停止欣赏音乐会。
Konstantina Stankovic: It's just that we have to take precautionary measures.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：只是我们必须采取预防措施。
First of all, why does music have to be that loud?
首先，为什么音乐必须那么大声？
It's kind of a peer pressure phenomenon because most people don't even enjoy it when it's that loud, but they feel like they should because somehow it's a kind of being youthful.
这是一种同侪压力现象，因为大多数人甚至不喜欢它那么大声，但他们觉得他们应该这样做，因为某种程度上这是一种年轻。
Andrew Huberman: I have an idea.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我有一个想法。
Konstantina Stankovic: Uh-huh.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But it's just a speculation.
Andrew Huberman：但这只是一个猜测。
Part of it, I think, is to drown out other sounds in the crowd in the same way that if you go to a party, and they dim the lights on the dance floor, partially because of people's self-consciousness, but people are more likely to dance when they're, not every, like, movement of the dance is being detected, right, than bright lights and...
我认为，其中一部分是为了淹没人群中的其他声音，就像你去参加聚会一样，他们会调暗舞池的灯光，部分原因是人们的自我意识，但人们更有可能在检测到舞蹈动作时跳舞，对吧，而不是明亮的灯光……
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Like, when the lights come up at the end of a night of dancing or a bar, you kind of feel like, “Okay, party's over.”
Andrew Huberman：就像，当一晚的舞蹈或酒吧结束时灯光亮起时，你会感觉，“好吧，派对结束了。”
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：对吗？
And that's what they're trying to signal.
这就是他们试图发出的信号。
Andrew Huberman: So, part of it is probably to drown out the micro-conversations going around.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，部分原因可能是为了掩盖周围的微观对话。
And I think the other part is that, I do think that, like with highly palatable food, there's been this sort of drift of setting higher and higher thresholds of what's normal, and that people many times go to concerts because they want to feel the music at the level of an intense sound wave.
我认为另一部分是，我确实认为，就像非常美味的食物一样，存在着这种对正常阈值设定越来越高的倾向，人们很多时候去听音乐会是因为他们想在强烈的声波水平上感受音乐。
Especially, like, I mean, if you live in California, probably anywhere in the country, but you're familiar with someone pulling up next to you, and really blasting the bass in their car and your whole car is shaking, and they're obviously enjoying it, and to you, it's aversive or you like it, depending on who you are.
特别是，我的意思是，如果你住在加利福尼亚州，可能在这个国家的任何地方，但你熟悉有人在你旁边停下来，在他们的车里大声播放低音，你的整辆车都在震动，他们显然很享受它，而对你来说，这是令人厌恶的还是你喜欢它，这取决于你是谁。
Andrew Huberman: But most of the time, we don't want other people's sound experiences encroaching on ours at that kind of whole vehicle level.
Andrew Huberman：但大多数时候，我们不希望其他人的声音体验在整车层面上侵犯我们的体验。
So yeah, I think it's this notion that we can't feel the music unless it's very loud.
所以，是的，我认为这就是我们无法感受到音乐的原因，除非音乐非常响亮。
Again, it's a speculation.
再次强调，这只是猜测。
Konstantina Stankovic: There is something to it because it turns out that at loud enough sound intensities, the vestibular system is stimulated as well.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这是有道理的，因为事实证明，在足够大的声音强度下，前庭系统也会受到刺激。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And there are experiments in animals that have shown this unequivocally.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：动物实验已经明确地证明了这一点。
So, there are vestibular or balance neurons that actually respond to loud sound.
因此，前庭或平衡神经元实际上对响亮的声音做出反应。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: So yes, there is a component of that.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的，其中有一部分。
However, we talked about initially how delicate this organ is.
然而，我们最初讨论过这个器官是多么脆弱。
Again, it can detect sub-angstrom displacements, and now you are literally hammering it with this blast noise.
同样，它可以检测亚埃位移，现在你实际上是在用爆炸噪音锤击它。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: It's like an elephant in a china shop.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这就像瓷器店里的大象。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: And that is not good, and that's what contributes to some hearing loss.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这不好，这会导致一些听力损失。
So, what can you do to protect your hearing if you're going to a loud concert like that?
那么，如果您要参加这样一场吵闹的音乐会，您可以采取什么措施来保护您的听力呢？
Definitely wear earplugs.
一定要戴耳塞。
You can even measure sound intensities if you want to be very quantitative about it, because now you have a rough formula.
如果您想要非常定量地测量声音强度，您甚至可以测量声音强度，因为现在您有了一个粗略的公式。
You can get a dB app on your phone.
您可以在手机上安装 dB 应用程序。
It's free.
它是免费的。
You can measure it.
你可以测量一下。
Konstantina Stankovic: And let's say if it's 120 decibel at the concert you're using, then wear earplugs that provide at least 30 decibel of attenuation.
Konstantina Stankovic：假设您在音乐会上使用的噪音为 120 分贝，则佩戴至少可衰减 30 分贝的耳塞。
When you buy these earplugs in a store, it tells you what degree of attenuation they provide, and it can be anywhere from 10 to 30.
当您在商店购买这些耳塞时，它会告诉您它们提供的衰减程度，可以是 10 到 30 之间的任何值。
Musicians' earplugs usually provide about 14 decibel of attenuation, so clearly that wouldn't be good enough for this event.
音乐家的耳塞通常提供大约 14 分贝的衰减，显然这对于这次活动来说还不够好。
Konstantina Stankovic: And you have to put them in correctly, because if they don't fit in, it doesn't matter what the number says, they're not protecting you.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：你必须正确地放置它们，因为如果它们不适合，那么无论数字是什么，它们都不能保护你。
So, that's one thing that you could do.
所以，这是你可以做的一件事。
Another thing that you can do is take magnesium before going to a loud concert, and this is because studies have shown that magnesium can protect against noise-induced hearing loss.
您可以做的另一件事是在去喧闹的音乐会之前服用镁，这是因为研究表明镁可以防止噪音引起的听力损失。
Konstantina Stankovic: And the studies were done in countries where they have mandatory military service.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这些研究是在实行义务兵役制的国家进行的。
And they literally grouped people into those who received magnesium before those exercises, and those who didn't, and everybody was exposed to the same artillery and explosions as a part of preparation.
他们实际上将人们分为在练习前接受镁治疗的人和没有接受镁治疗的人，作为准备的一部分，每个人都暴露在相同的炮火和爆炸中。
Those who took magnesium beforehand had less hearing loss.
那些预先服用镁的人听力损失较少。
Konstantina Stankovic: Also, what measurements have shown in animal models is that after noise trauma, is the levels of magnesium that change the most in the cochlea, in the organ of hearing, more than any other ion that's been studied.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：此外，动物模型中的测量结果表明，在噪音创伤后，耳蜗和听觉器官中镁的水平变化最大，超过任何其他已研究的离子。
Konstantina Stankovic: And also, what large-scale human population studies have shown is that those with higher magnesium serum levels or higher magnesium intake tend to have better hearing.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：而且，大规模人群研究表明，血清镁水平较高或镁摄入量较高的人往往有更好的听力。
Konstantina Stankovic: However, that needs to be further studied and replicated because the precise dose is really not known or the formulation.
Konstantina Stankovic：然而，这需要进一步研究和复制，因为确切的剂量或配方确实未知。
Because, as you know, there are many different kinds of magnesium and magnesium is good for your whole body, but depending on the formulation, it may be better for the gut versus the musculoskeletal system versus the brain, and different formulations have been studied in different scenarios.
因为，如您所知，镁有很多种，镁对您的整个身体都有好处，但根据配方的不同，它可能对肠道、肌肉骨骼系统和大脑更好，并且在不同的情况下研究了不同的配方。
Konstantina Stankovic: What we now think is that magnesium threonate is most efficient in crossing the blood-brain barrier, so we think it's probably the best for hearing protection, but that study is yet to be conducted.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们现在认为苏糖酸镁在穿过血脑屏障方面最有效，因此我们认为它可能是保护听力的最佳选择，但该研究尚未进行。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Incredible.
安德鲁·休伯曼：难以置信。
I've been taking magnesium threonate for, gosh, well over a decade because I learned that it was the form that most readily crosses the blood-brain barrier.
天啊，我服用苏糖酸镁已有十多年了，因为我了解到它是最容易穿过血脑屏障的形式。
I was interested in the cognitive-enhancing effects.
我对认知增强效果很感兴趣。
I take it about 30 to 60 minutes before sleep, and it does seem to make me a little bit, a little bit more drowsy and does seem to improve the architecture of my sleep, slow-wave and REM sleep measured, et cetera.
我在睡前大约 30 到 60 分钟服用它，它似乎确实让我变得有点、更困了，而且似乎确实改善了我的睡眠结构、慢波睡眠和快速眼动睡眠测量等。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I know a lot of people take magnesium bisglycinate as an alternative.
Andrew Huberman：我知道很多人都服用双甘氨酸镁作为替代品。
As far as I know, those are interchangeable.
据我所知，这些是可以互换的。
I think it's wonderful if people are getting enough magnesium from their diet, and if they need to supplement, they think about that.
我认为，如果人们能够从饮食中获取足够的镁，那就太好了，如果他们需要补充，他们会考虑这一点。
Andrew Huberman: I'm struck by these studies on magnesium because, you know, in the visual system, the field of ophthalmology has been sort of reluctant to embrace supplementation with things except for a few things.
Andrew Huberman：我对这些关于镁的研究感到震惊，因为，你知道，在视觉系统中，眼科领域一直不愿意接受除了少数物质之外的其他物质的补充。
Everyone knows you need enough vitamin A, and carrots are good for your vision and this kind of thing, but it's a fat-soluble vitamin, so you don't want to overdo it.
每个人都知道你需要足够的维生素A，而胡萝卜对你的视力和这种东西有好处，但它是脂溶性维生素，所以你不想过量。
Andrew Huberman: But nowadays, there's a kind of an emerging sense from some of our colleagues in ophthalmology at Stanford that some of the things found in supplement form actually can help protect the retinal cells, which is a sort of correlate of the hair cells, in the context of hearing loss.
Andrew Huberman：但是如今，我们斯坦福大学眼科的一些同事有一种新的感觉，即补充剂形式中发现的一些物质实际上可以帮助保护视网膜细胞，在听力损失的情况下，视网膜细胞是毛细胞的一种相关细胞。
So, I'm curious as to why magnesium would do this.
所以，我很好奇为什么镁会这样做。
Andrew Huberman: Is it something about the lymph, that they sort of the chemical architecture of the cochlear environment?
Andrew Huberman：淋巴是耳蜗环境的化学结构吗？
Is it happening at the level of the brain?
它发生在大脑层面吗？
Maybe we don't know, but it's very interesting.
也许我们不知道，但这很有趣。
Konstantina Stankovic: I think it's probably both, at both levels.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我认为可能两者兼而有之，在两个层面上都是如此。
And by the way, going back to supplementation, really the best way is to have a healthy diet.
顺便说一句，回到补充，最好的方法确实是健康的饮食。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And numerous studies have shown is that what we absorb through a healthy diet is better than supplementation, and supplements are not really strictly regulated in the way that other prescription medications are.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：大量研究表明，我们通过健康饮食吸收的东西比补充剂更好，而且补充剂并没有像其他处方药那样受到严格监管。
So, what the label says on a box could be all over the map.
因此，盒子上的标签内容可能会遍布整个地图。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, you need to go with a trusted brand.
Andrew Huberman：是的，你需要选择值得信赖的品牌。
Some companies get third-party testing, but I completely agree that the supplement industry is replete with all sorts of things, especially, for instance, melatonin.
有些公司进行了第三方测试，但我完全同意补充品行业充满了各种各样的东西，尤其是褪黑激素。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: You know, the great sleep scientist, Matt Walker, author of “Why We Sleep,” et cetera, has cited experiments where they look at bottles of melatonin labeled as one milligram, three milligrams, five milligrams, 10 milligrams, and the actual amount in one pill or capsule can be off by 85% in either direction.
安德鲁·休伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：你知道，伟大的睡眠科学家马特·沃克（Matt Walker）是《我们为什么睡觉》等书的作者，他引用了一些实验，他们观察了标签为一毫克、三毫克、五毫克、十毫克的褪黑激素瓶，结果发现一颗药丸或胶囊中的实际含量可能会减少 85%。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: In either direction.
安德鲁·休伯曼：无论哪个方向。
Either much less than you thought or much more.
要么比你想象的少得多，要么比你想象的多得多。
Actually, that reminds me to ask, is there any evidence that taking magnesium can help slow, reverse, or prevent tinnitus?
实际上，这让我想问，是否有任何证据表明服用镁可以帮助减缓、逆转或预防耳鸣？
Because I know many people are really struggling with tinnitus.
因为我知道很多人都在与耳鸣作斗争。
Konstantina Stankovic: What is known is that for some people with tinnitus, in the setting of migraine, magnesium supplementation really helps.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：众所周知，对于一些患有耳鸣、偏头痛的人来说，补充镁确实有帮助。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: As you know, magnesium can do magic for people with migraines, along with a healthy diet, and coenzyme Q10, and B complex, or at least B12 vitamin.
Konstantina Stankovic：如您所知，镁、健康饮食、辅酶 Q10 和 B 复合物，或至少 B12 维生素，对偏头痛患者有神奇功效。
So, that is the standard part of armamentarium to treat migraines.
所以，这是治疗偏头痛的标准装备。
Konstantina Stankovic: And some people with migraines have tinnitus during their exacerbations, as well as auditory fluctuations, and some people get really dizzy.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：有些偏头痛患者在恶化期间会出现耳鸣，以及听觉波动，有些人会感到非常头晕。
And this is where thorough evaluation is really key because someone may assume that the problem is in the inner ear, but the problem is really in the brain.
这就是彻底评估真正关键的地方，因为有人可能认为问题出在内耳，但问题实际上出在大脑中。
And then going back to foods that are good for you that are better than a supplement, given this unregulated nature of the supplements.
然后回到对您有益的食物，这些食物比补充剂更好，因为补充剂具有不受监管的性质。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: They include seeds and nuts and fish, especially salmon, and then green leafy veggies, like, spinach.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：它们包括种子、坚果和鱼类，尤其是鲑鱼，然后是绿叶蔬菜，例如菠菜。
They are all rich in magnesium.
它们都富含镁。
But it's all common sense.
但这都是常识。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Basically, what's good for your body is good for your hearing.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：基本上，对你的身体有益的东西对你的听力也有好处。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Although, having done many episodes on nutrition and talked to experts in nutrition, the number of people that really go out of their way to make sure they get enough green leafy vegetables, fiber, and meet their protein quota per day, which, nowadays, there's a kind of controversy about how much protein, but, you know, most people just don't do the common sense things.
虽然，在做了很多关于营养的节目并与营养专家交谈后，有多少人真正不遗余力地确保自己摄入足够的绿叶蔬菜、纤维，并达到每天的蛋白质配额，而现在，对于多少蛋白质存在着某种争议，但是，你知道，大多数人只是不做常识性的事情。
Andrew Huberman: So what I've learned is everyone, including myself, needs to be reminded to get sunlight, you know, set our circadian rhythm, not be on screens too late, get enough magnesium, ideally from food.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以我学到的是，每个人，包括我自己，都需要被提醒去获取阳光，你知道，设置我们的昼夜节律，不要太晚看屏幕，获取足够的镁，最好是从食物中获取。
I completely agree that supplements are useful in the context of when you're already doing things correctly with your nutrition, or sometimes it's the case that when people are traveling or they're overly busy, they're just not paying enough attention to the foods they're eating, but that's not a long-term solution.
我完全同意，当您已经正确地利用营养时，或者有时当人们在旅行或过于忙碌时，他们只是没有对所吃的食物给予足够的关注，那么补充剂是有用的，但这不是一个长期的解决方案。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So, I completely agree.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，我完全同意。
Green leafy vegetables, fish.
绿叶蔬菜、鱼。
And this information's now easy to find online, right?
现在很容易在网上找到这些信息，对吧？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Which forms of magnesium.
Andrew Huberman：镁有哪些形式？
So, for people that have tinnitus or that don't want to get tinnitus, do you see any harm in them, kind of emphasizing magnesium intake through food and/or supplementation?
那么，对于患有耳鸣或不想耳鸣的人来说，强调通过食物和/或补充剂摄入镁有什么害处吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: That really hasn't been studied for any type of tinnitus.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：确实还没有针对任何类型的耳鸣进行过研究。
It's been studied in the context of migraine, and there, it really helps.
它已经在偏头痛的背景下进行了研究，并且确实有帮助。
And tinnitus, it's an umbrella term.
耳鸣是一个总称。
Just like sensory neural hearing loss, it's an umbrella term.
就像感觉神经性听力损失一样，它是一个总称。
Andrew Huberman: I see.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我明白了。
Konstantina Stankovic: It encompasses lots of different conditions.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：它包含许多不同的条件。
When it comes to hearing loss, there are already more than 200 genes identified to cause hearing loss, and that's the genetic component.
说到听力损失，已经确定了超过 200 个基因会导致听力损失，这就是遗传因素。
But then there are environmental components to hearing loss, which include noise trauma that we talked about, aging, infection.
但听力损失也有环境因素，包括我们谈到的噪音创伤、衰老、感染。
Lots of different infectious diseases can cause hearing loss, not only viruses from the herpes family.
许多不同的传染病都会导致听力损失，而不仅仅是疱疹病毒。
Like herpes simplex virus, which causes a cold sore, or cytomegalovirus, which is the most common congenital infectious cause of hearing loss.
比如引起唇疱疹的单纯疱疹病毒，或导致听力损失的最常见先天性感染原因的巨细胞病毒。
Andrew Huberman: CMV is very common, right?
Andrew Huberman：CMV 很常见，对吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
Andrew Huberman: Something like 80 to 90% of adults in the United States carry CMV.
Andrew Huberman：美国 80% 到 90% 的成年人都携带 CMV。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: What does that mean?
安德鲁·休伯曼：这是什么意思？
That, at one point, they had the CMV virus, and they felt it as a cold or a flu, but it was CMV?
在某一时刻，他们感染了巨细胞病毒（CMV）病毒，他们感觉像是感冒或流感，但那是巨细胞病毒（CMV）？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Indeed.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：确实如此。
And some of these viruses, they stay dormant and live with us forever.
其中一些病毒处于休眠状态并永远与我们生活在一起。
And then when the immune system gets weakened, then they can wreak havoc.
当免疫系统被削弱时，它们就会造成严重破坏。
And some of the other viruses from the herpes family, like, Epstein-Barr virus, EBV, it's actually linked to different cancer types, including nasopharyngeal cancer.
疱疹家族的其他一些病毒，例如 Epstein-Barr 病毒、EBV，实际上与不同的癌症类型有关，包括鼻咽癌。
So, that's yet another cause of hearing loss, infectious hearing loss.
所以，这是听力损失的另一个原因，传染性听力损失。
Konstantina Stankovic: Then there is immunologic hearing loss, when there is no infection, but it's an inflammation, such as in people with celiac disease or rheumatoid arthritis.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：当没有感染时，就会出现免疫性听力损失，但这是一种炎症，例如患有乳糜泻或类风湿关节炎的人。
They may have a higher predisposition to developing hearing loss, not only because the little tiny joints in the middle ear become fixed and don't vibrate as well, but also because the inner ear is injured.
他们可能更容易出现听力损失，不仅因为中耳的微小关节变得固定并且不再振动，还因为内耳受伤。
So, when we now say sensory neural hearing loss, we actually cannot specifically say exactly what's wrong.
所以，当我们现在说感觉神经性听力损失时，我们实际上并不能具体地说到底出了什么问题。
Andrew Huberman: It's like a fever.
安德鲁·休伯曼：就像发烧一样。
Could come from any number of things.
可能来自许多事物。
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
Andrew Huberman: Interesting.
安德鲁·休伯曼：有趣。
Konstantina Stankovic: And the reason for that really goes back to the tiny size of the inner ear, to the point that, if you image it using the current state-of-the-art imaging tools that include computer tomography, or a CT scan, or MRI, which is Magnetic Resonance Imaging, you don't see cells in the living human inner ear.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：其原因实际上可以追溯到内耳的微小尺寸，以至于如果您使用当前最先进的成像工具（包括计算机断层扫描、CT 扫描或 MRI，即磁共振成像）对其进行成像，您将看不到活人内耳中的细胞。
You just see a gray or white blob.
您只会看到一个灰色或白色的斑点。
Konstantina Stankovic: And the organ is too small to be detectable by technologies of that resolution.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这个器官太小，无法通过这种分辨率的技术检测到。
Another issue is that you cannot biopsy it.
另一个问题是您无法对其进行活检。
It's so tiny that if you did a tissue biopsy, you would destroy it.
它是如此之小，如果你进行组织活检，你就会破坏它。
So that has really stimulated lots of very promising research in the area to improve diagnostics for hearing loss, which includes both high-resolution imaging of the inner ear and liquid biopsy as opposed to tissue biopsy.
因此，这确实刺激了该领域许多非常有前途的研究，以改善听力损失的诊断，其中包括内耳的高分辨率成像和液体活检（而不是组织活检）。
Konstantina Stankovic: And we have shown that if you take as little as half a microliter of that fluid perilymph, we can detect molecular differences between mice, with or without hearing loss.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们已经证明，只要抽取半微升的外淋巴液，我们就可以检测到小鼠之间的分子差异，无论小鼠是否患有听力损失。
However, we have also collected this fluid from patients who undergo ear surgery.
然而，我们也从接受耳部手术的患者身上收集了这种液体。
Konstantina Stankovic: It's either when we perform cochlear implantation for those who are profoundly deaf, or we literally have to drill through the inner ear to get to the brainstem, because they have a tumor, such as a vestibular schwannoma or an acoustic neuroma, which is a tumor that causes hearing loss.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：要么是我们为那些严重失聪的人进行人工耳蜗植入，要么我们实际上必须钻通内耳才能到达脑干，因为他们患有肿瘤，例如前庭神经鞘瘤或听神经瘤，这是一种导致听力损失的肿瘤。
So, in these two instances, we can actually get inner ear fluid, and we can study it, and we can see differences.
所以，在这两种情况下，我们实际上可以获得内耳液体，我们可以研究它，我们可以看到差异。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, I think that's a promising direction on the horizon.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，我认为这是一个有希望的方向。
Another diagnostic possibility is genetic testing.
另一种诊断可能性是基因检测。
That's relevant for people in whom there is a family history of hearing loss.
这对于有听力损失家族史的人来说是相关的。
But today, when we test for known deafness-causing genes, it comes back with a definitive answer only in 50% of people.
但今天，当我们测试已知的导致耳聋的基因时，只有 50% 的人才能得到明确的答案。
Konstantina Stankovic: And in another 50%, it often lists lots of variants of unknown significance.
Konstantina Stankovic：在另外 50% 中，它经常列出许多意义不明的变体。
They are so common that we even use an acronym, VUSs.
它们非常常见，以至于我们甚至使用缩写词 VUS。
And some people will have tens, if not hundreds, of these variants of unknown significance.
有些人会拥有数十个（如果不是数百个）这些意义不明的变体。
So, what do you make of that?
那么，你对此有何看法？
Konstantina Stankovic: You just shrug your shoulders, and at this point, we say, “Well, we don't know.” But now, one exciting research direction that we are pursuing with other investigators at Stanford, and in collaboration with Google, is to use AI to help us figure out which of these variants of unknown significance is actually significant.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：你只是耸耸肩，此时我们会说，“好吧，我们不知道。”但现在，我们正在与斯坦福大学的其他研究人员以及谷歌合作，共同追求一个令人兴奋的研究方向，那就是使用人工智能来帮助我们找出这些未知意义的变体中哪些实际上是重要的。
And by using those tools, we can establish the diagnosis in 80% of people.
通过使用这些工具，我们可以对 80% 的人进行诊断。
Konstantina Stankovic: So now that's for hearing loss, and you really asked about tinnitus, but this is really to tell you that both of these terms are huge umbrella terms, and it's been super frustrating not having the ability to establish a precise diagnosis to guide therapy.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：现在这是针对听力损失的，你确实问过耳鸣，但这实际上是想告诉你，这两个术语都是巨大的总括术语，而且没有能力建立精确的诊断来指导治疗，这真是令人沮丧。
So, tinnitus is an even bigger black box.
所以，耳鸣是一个更大的黑匣子。
Andrew Huberman: We've known for a long time that there are things that we can do to improve our sleep.
Andrew Huberman：我们很早就知道可以采取一些措施来改善睡眠。
And that includes things that we can take, things like magnesium threonate, theanine, chamomile extract, and glycine, along with lesser-known things like saffron and valerian root.
这包括我们可以服用的东西，如苏糖酸镁、茶氨酸、洋甘菊提取物和甘氨酸，以及鲜为人知的东西，如藏红花和缬草根。
These are all clinically supported ingredients that can help you fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up feeling more refreshed.
这些都是经过临床支持的成分，可以帮助您入睡、保持睡眠状态，并且醒来时感觉更加神清气爽。
I'm excited to share that our longtime sponsor AG1 just created a new product called AGZ, a nightly drink designed to help you get better sleep and have you wake up feeling super refreshed.
我很高兴与大家分享，我们的长期赞助商 AG1 刚刚推出了一款名为 AGZ 的新产品，这是一种夜间饮料，旨在帮助您获得更好的睡眠，让您醒来时感觉神清气爽。
Andrew Huberman: Over the past few years, I've worked with the team at AG1 to help create this new AGZ formula.
Andrew Huberman：在过去的几年里，我与 AG1 的团队合作，帮助创建了这个新的 AGZ 公式。
It has the best sleep-supporting compounds in exactly the right ratios in one easy-to-drink mix.
它在一种易于饮用的混合物中以完全正确的比例含有最好的睡眠支持化合物。
This removes all the complexity of trying to forage the vast landscape of supplements focused on sleep, and figuring out the right dosages and which ones to take for you.
这消除了尝试寻找大量针对睡眠的补充剂、确定正确剂量以及适合您服用的补充剂的所有复杂性。
Andrew Huberman: AGZ is, to my knowledge, the most comprehensive sleep supplement on the market.
Andrew Huberman：据我所知，AGZ 是市场上最全面的睡眠补充剂。
I take it 30 to 60 minutes before sleep.
我在睡前 30 到 60 分钟服用。
It's delicious, by the way.
顺便说一句，它很好吃。
And it dramatically increases both the quality and the depth of my sleep.
它极大地提高了我的睡眠质量和深度。
I know that both from my subjective experience of my sleep, and because I track my sleep.
我知道这一点，既来自我对睡眠的主观体验，也因为我跟踪了我的睡眠。
I'm excited for everyone to try this new AGZ formulation and to enjoy the benefits of better sleep.
我很高兴每个人都能尝试这种新的 AGZ 配方并享受更好睡眠的好处。
Andrew Huberman: AGZ is available in chocolate, chocolate mint, and mixed berry flavors.
Andrew Huberman：AGZ 有巧克力、巧克力薄荷和混合浆果口味。
And as I mentioned before, they're all extremely delicious.
正如我之前提到的，它们都非常美味。
My favorite of the three has to be...
这三个里面我最喜欢的一定是...
I think, chocolate mint, but I really like them all.
我想是巧克力薄荷，但我真的很喜欢它们。
If you'd like to try AGZ, go to drinkagz.com/huberman to get a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AGZ，请访问 Drinkagz.com/huberman 以获得特别优惠。
Again, that's drinkagz.com/huberman.
再说一遍，这是 Drinkagz.com/huberman。
Andrew Huberman: Today's episode is also brought to us by David.
安德鲁·休伯曼：今天的节目也是大卫给我们带来的。
David makes a protein bar unlike any other.
大卫制作的蛋白质棒与众不同。
It has 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar.
它含有 28 克蛋白质，仅 150 卡路里，零克糖。
That's right, 28 grams of protein and 75% of its calories come from protein.
没错，28克蛋白质，其75%的热量都来自于蛋白质。
That's 50% higher than the next closest protein bar.
这比第二接近的蛋白质棒高出 50%。
These bars from David also taste amazing.
大卫的这些酒吧味道也很棒。
Andrew Huberman: Right now, my favorite flavor is the new cinnamon roll flavor, but I also like the chocolate chip cookie dough flavor, and I also like the salted peanut butter flavor.
Andrew Huberman：现在，我最喜欢的口味是新的肉桂卷口味，但我也喜欢巧克力曲奇面团口味，我也喜欢咸花生酱口味。
Basically, I like all the flavors.
基本上所有的口味我都喜欢。
They're all delicious.
它们都很好吃。
Also, big news, David bars are now back in stock.
另外，还有一个大消息，大卫金条现在又重新有货了。
They were sold out for several months because they are that popular, but they are now back in stock.
由于它们太受欢迎，它们被抢购一空几个月，但现在又有货了。
Andrew Huberman: By eating a David bar, I'm able to get 28 grams of protein in the calories of a snack, which makes it very easy for me to meet my protein goals of one gram of protein per pound of body weight per day, and to do so without eating excess calories.
Andrew Huberman：通过吃 David 能量棒，我可以在一份零食的卡路里中获取 28 克蛋白质，这使我很容易实现每天每磅体重 1 克蛋白质的蛋白质目标，并且无需摄入过多卡路里。
I generally eat a David bar most afternoons, and I always keep them with me when I'm away from home or traveling because they're incredibly convenient to get enough protein.
我通常大多数下午都会吃大卫棒，当我出门在外或旅行时，我总是随身携带它们，因为它们非常方便地获取足够的蛋白质。
As I mentioned, they're incredibly delicious.
正如我提到的，它们非常美味。
And given that 28 grams of protein, they're pretty filling for just 150 calories, so they're great between meals as well.
考虑到它们含有 28 克蛋白质，仅需 150 卡路里热量就已经很饱了，所以在两餐之间食用也很不错。
Andrew Huberman: If you'd like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
Andrew Huberman：如果您想尝试 David，可以访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
Again, that's davidprotein.com/huberman.
同样，这是 david Protein.com/huberman。
Andrew Huberman: What you're saying is extremely important, both by virtue of what you're explaining in terms of the different types of hearing loss, new novel ways to detect hearing loss, and hopefully treat hearing loss, but also that we lack subtyping of what we broadly call hearing loss or sensory hearing loss or tinnitus.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你所说的非常重要，一方面是因为你所解释的不同类型的听力损失、检测听力损失的新方法以及希望治疗听力损失的方法，另一方面是因为我们缺乏对我们广泛所说的听力损失或感觉性听力损失或耳鸣的亚型。
Andrew Huberman: This is a ubiquitous problem in the health space.
Andrew Huberman：这是健康领域普遍存在的问题。
I had our colleague, Mike Snyder from the Department of Genetics on, just recently.
就在最近，我们的同事、遗传学系的迈克·斯奈德（Mike Snyder）也来了。
That episode came out and, he said, you know, we have to stop talking about blood glucose responses, you know?
那集播出后，他说，你知道，我们必须停止谈论血糖反应，你知道吗？
Some people spike to potatoes.
有些人喜欢吃土豆。
Other people spike to grapes.
其他人则喜欢吃葡萄。
We actually have grape spikers versus potato spikers, and they need different things.
实际上，我们有葡萄穗和土豆穗，它们需要不同的东西。
Same thing, we hear fiber is great for us, and I agree.
同样，我们听说光纤对我们很有好处，我同意。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: We need fiber.
Andrew Huberman：我们需要纤维。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Some people experience a profound reduction in inflammation when they eat certain types of fiber.
Andrew Huberman：有些人在食用某些类型的纤维后，炎症会明显减轻。
Some people experience significant inflammation, whole-body inflammation, when they eat other types of fiber.
有些人在吃其他类型的纤维时会出现严重的炎症，全身炎症。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: This was actually studied by Justin Sonnenburg and Chris Gardner in their now becoming classic study about the value of low sugar fermented foods.
安德鲁·休伯曼：贾斯汀·索南伯格和克里斯·加德纳在他们关于低糖发酵食品价值的经典研究中实际上对此进行了研究。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Which were great for the microbiome, but the fiber group actually, the inflamatome in some people shows marked increase.
Andrew Huberman：这对微生物组来说非常好，但实际上纤维组，某些人的炎症组显示出显着增加。
Do we say fiber is bad?
我们说纤维不好吗？
No.
不。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: It depends on the type of fiber.
Andrew Huberman：这取决于纤维的类型。
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
Andrew Huberman: And on and on, and we can talk about...
Andrew Huberman：等等，我们可以谈论......
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It's like when people say color blindness, I would say, “Well, like, which kind?” I mean, there's so many types of color blindness.
安德鲁·休伯曼：就像当人们说色盲时，我会说，“嗯，比如，哪种？”我的意思是，色盲有很多种类型。
So, it's very important that you're highlighting this for vision as well.
因此，强调这一点对于愿景也非常重要。
I definitely want to ask something about tinnitus, because I went into the literature.
我确实想问一些关于耳鸣的问题，因为我研究了文献。
This was a while ago, and just was trying to explore for what's being done or what's been tested in the nutrition and supplementation space, just because that was, happened to be what I was looking at.
这是不久前的事，我只是想探索营养和补充剂领域正在做什么或已经测试了什么，只是因为那恰好是我所关注的。
Andrew Huberman: And it seems that there are a few studies.
Andrew Huberman：似乎有一些研究。
I don't know how powerful these studies are, but a few studies that suggest that perhaps low-dose melatonin might help.
我不知道这些研究有多强大，但一些研究表明低剂量褪黑激素可能会有所帮助。
But then I realize it's very difficult to separate those out from improvements in sleep because the people were taking the melatonin before sleep.
但后来我意识到很难将这些与睡眠的改善分开，因为人们在睡前服用褪黑激素。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And then we know that anytime you sleep less, your inflammation goes up, you have a bunch of gut issues, and whole body issues.
安德鲁·休伯曼：然后我们知道，只要你睡眠不足，你的炎症就会加剧，你就会出现一系列肠道问题和全身问题。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So, is there any evidence that there's anything that people could safely experiment with?
Andrew Huberman：那么，有没有证据表明人们可以安全地进行任何实验？
Perhaps magnesium, if they choose through diet or supplementation, or both.
也许是镁，如果他们选择通过饮食或补充剂，或两者兼而有之。
But is there any indication that people can take something, or is it really the case that they need to go see a proper auditory neurophysiologist or clinician like you, and get treated for tinnitus?
但是否有任何迹象表明人们可以服用某些药物，或者他们确实需要去看像您这样的合适的听觉神经生理学家或临床医生，并接受耳鸣治疗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah, it's the latter that they need to really be evaluated.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的，他们真正需要评估的是后者。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And what studies have shown and systematic reviews, and meta-analyses, that none of this supplementation makes a difference for tinnitus.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：研究表明，系统评价和荟萃分析表明，这些补充剂对耳鸣没有任何影响。
Andrew Huberman: That's a real shame.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这真是太遗憾了。
Konstantina Stankovic: It's a shame, and it's also potentially a methodological issue because again, everything was lumped under the same umbrella.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这是一种耻辱，而且这也可能是一个方法论问题，因为所有事情都被归为同一类。
But it is conceivable that different subtypes may respond to certain interventions.
但可以想象，不同的亚型可能会对某些干预措施产生反应。
But because we don't know how to identify these subtypes, we are lumping them all together.
但因为我们不知道如何识别这些亚型，所以我们将它们混为一谈。
So, when you lump them all together, and put all studies together that have ever been done, and perform meta-analysis, then it sounds like none of them make a difference.
因此，当你将它们全部放在一起，并将所有已完成的研究放在一起并进行荟萃分析时，听起来它们都没有什么区别。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, to the point that the American Academy of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery really endorses two main interventions.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，美国耳鼻喉头颈外科学会确实支持两种主要干预措施。
One is amplification with a hearing aid for those who need it, and two is cognitive behavioral therapy.
一是为有需要的人提供助听器扩音，二是认知行为疗法。
Those two interventions have actually shown to make a difference.
这两项干预措施实际上已显示出效果。
There are other things that have been tried.
还有其他一些事情已经尝试过。
Some people take things on their own.
有些人自己做事。
Konstantina Stankovic: There is anecdotal reports of potential benefit, but that hasn't panned out in large-scale epidemiologic studies that have had the appropriate control group.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：有一些关于潜在益处的轶事报道，但在有适当对照组的大规模流行病学研究中尚未得到证实。
Andrew Huberman: Thank you for that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢你。
When Michael Kilgard was a guest on this podcast, he's an auditory...
当迈克尔·基尔加德 (Michael Kilgard) 做客这个播客时，他是一个听觉......
Well, he's a neuroplasticity guy, but has spent most of his time in the auditory system, now vagus nerve system.
嗯，他是一个神经可塑性专家，但大部分时间都花在听觉系统上，现在是迷走神经系统上。
But he's from Mike Merzenich lineage.
但他来自迈克·梅策尼奇（Mike Merzenich）血统。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: He emphasized that people who have tinnitus, the fact that they think about it and pay attention to it tends to exacerbate the circuitry.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：他强调，患有耳鸣的人，他们思考并关注耳鸣的事实往往会加剧电路。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And it sounds like a brush-off, but he really encouraged people to try and not think about it, try to distract themselves, because that could help prevent some of the, you know, ramping up of what you and I call, the gain of those circuits.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这听起来像是一种拒绝，但他确实鼓励人们尝试不去想它，尝试分散自己的注意力，因为这可以帮助防止一些，你知道的，你和我所说的那些电路的增益的增加。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And people don't like that answer, and I can understand why they don't like it, because it's like, “Well, you don't want me to think about this loud ringing in my ears?” And he's saying, “Yeah, until you get a treatment, a proper treatment, you need to try and not think about it, because thinking about it makes it worse.” Which, of course, for some people, makes it worse.
安德鲁·休伯曼：人们不喜欢这个答案，我可以理解为什么他们不喜欢它，因为这就像，“好吧，你不想让我考虑我耳边的响亮的铃声吗？”他说，“是的，在你得到治疗、适当的治疗之前，你需要尝试不去想它，因为思考它会让情况变得更糟。”当然，对于某些人来说，这会让情况变得更糟。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But nonetheless, I think it's a very important message, that if you have tinnitus, to do everything you possibly can to try and distract yourself from it, and then pursue proper treatment.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但尽管如此，我认为这是一个非常重要的信息，如果您有耳鸣，请尽一切可能尝试分散自己的注意力，然后寻求适当的治疗。
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly, and in fact, that's what we recommend in the clinic as well.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：确实如此，事实上，这也是我们在诊所所建议的。
And lots of people find it reassuring, because we first have to do a complete and thorough evaluation, which includes examination of the ears, examination of the whole head and neck, hearing testing, to make sure that there is no asymmetry, or difference between the two ears.
而且很多人都觉得放心，因为我们首先要做一个完整彻底的评估，包括耳朵检查、整个头部和颈部的检查、听力测试，以确保两耳没有不对称或差异。
If there is a significant asymmetry, that triggers imaging or additional testing, like auditory brainstem evoked response testing.
如果存在明显的不对称，则会触发成像或其他测试，例如听觉脑干诱发反应测试。
Konstantina Stankovic: And imaging, it's typically MRI, and this is where we are looking for these tumors that could cause hearing loss.
Konstantina Stankovic：影像学，通常是 MRI，这就是我们寻找可能导致听力损失的肿瘤的地方。
They're super rare, so I don't want people to be stressing out and thinking they have that, but it's important to rule out.
它们非常罕见，所以我不想让人们感到压力并认为他们有这种情况，但重要的是要排除这种情况。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, indeed, once we find that there is no tumor, then we do try to reassure patients and explain that tinnitus is indeed a phantom sound produced by the brain, and why it makes it, and the more you think about it, the more you reinforce that circuit, just like you said.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，事实上，一旦我们发现没有肿瘤，我们就会尝试安抚患者，并解释耳鸣确实是大脑产生的幻音，以及为什么会产生这种声音，你越想它，你就越加强这个电路，就像你说的那样。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, if you are occupied by other things, or you have background noise, it lessens it.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，如果你被其他事情占据，或者你有背景噪音，它会减轻它。
And we already know that this is true, in terms of experiments that have been conducted, and that has been shown by electrophysiology, by imaging, even in people.
我们已经知道，根据已经进行的实验，电生理学、成像甚至在人类身上都证明了这一点。
Konstantina Stankovic: In people with tinnitus with normal audiometric thresholds, you can see hyperactivity in auditory centers in the brain, and in particular, the area that has been imaged is the inferior colliculus.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：在听力阈值正常的耳鸣患者中，您可以看到大脑听觉中枢的过度活跃，特别是成像的区域是下丘。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And so, we know that there is hyperactivity.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，我们知道存在多动症。
Also, most of the brain works on the principle of inhibition.
此外，大多数大脑都是按照抑制原理工作的。
Now, what has been shown in animal studies is that loud noise, which causes tinnitus, can lead to loss of that inhibition, so that can lead to hyperactivity.
现在，动物研究表明，引起耳鸣的噪音会导致这种抑制作用的丧失，从而导致多动症。
Konstantina Stankovic: But tinnitus can also be due to increased synchrony, and that informs different strategies going forward.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：但是耳鸣也可能是由于同步性增加造成的，这为未来采取不同的策略提供了信息。
But at this day and age, really the best treatment option for tinnitus is a cochlear implant.
但在当今时代，真正治疗耳鸣的最佳选择是人工耳蜗。
However, most people don't need a cochlear implant.
然而，大多数人不需要人工耳蜗。
Andrew Huberman: Right.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对。
Konstantina Stankovic: And why do I say that?
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我为什么这么说？
Because we know that 75% of people, with tinnitus, who undergo cochlear implantation because they have severe or profound hearing loss get better.
因为我们知道，75% 的耳鸣患者因严重或极重度听力损失而接受人工耳蜗植入后病情会有所好转。
And in 10% of those, it goes away altogether.
而在其中 10% 的人中，这种现象完全消失了。
So, it tells you that if you improve function at the periphery, the brain recalibrates and takes care of it.
所以，它告诉你，如果你改善外围功能，大脑就会重新校准并处理它。
Andrew Huberman: Which is great.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这太棒了。
Konstantina Stankovic: Which is great, indeed.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这确实很棒。
And that's why we are so enthusiastic about all the research that's happening at Stanford, and across the world, to regenerate and restore function in the inner ear, because that then facilitates the brain's adaptability to take care of itself.
这就是为什么我们对斯坦福大学和世界各地正在进行的所有研究如此热衷，这些研究旨在再生和恢复内耳功能，因为这可以促进大脑自我照顾的适应性。
Andrew Huberman: The brain is so smart.
安德鲁·休伯曼：大脑非常聪明。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I'll never forget these studies.
Andrew Huberman：我永远不会忘记这些研究。
Maybe it was Tomaso Poggio who authored these studies.
也许这些研究的作者是托马索·波吉奥。
I don't recall.
我不记得了。
But where people would wear inverting glasses.
但那里的人会戴倒转眼镜。
So, they put on glasses, and then for a couple days, the entire world looks upside down.
于是，他们戴上眼镜，然后几天，整个世界看起来都颠倒了。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And you would think this would be very debilitating, and you would think that people perhaps might learn how to, you know, pour water in a way that adjusts for that.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你会认为这会让人非常虚弱，你会认为人们也许可以学习如何，你知道，以一种适应这种情况的方式倒水。
But actually, the brain just flips the image back.
但实际上，大脑只是将图像翻转回来。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It does a complete reversal, which is incredible, because our eye actually inverts images coming into the brain, and our brain does the same thing.
Andrew Huberman：它实现了完全逆转，这令人难以置信，因为我们的眼睛实际上颠倒了进入大脑的图像，而我们的大脑也做了同样的事情。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It does it all the time.
Andrew Huberman：它一直都是这样。
Our brain is incredible with respect to this ability.
我们的大脑的这种能力令人难以置信。
I have to ask, with respect to headphones, how do I know if I'm listening to my headphones too loudly?
我想问一下，关于耳机，我怎么知道我用耳机听歌的声音是否太大了？
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Because I used to assume that if I use...
Andrew Huberman：因为我曾经假设如果我使用......
I use corded headphones.
我使用有线耳机。
I don't like the Bluetooth headphones for reasons related to...
我不喜欢蓝牙耳机，原因如下...
Anytime I use the Bluetooth headphones, I get a swelling of the lymph behind my ear, not the sort of lymph that we're talking about in the inner ear, and it's a quite consistent effect, and I think it's a heat effect.
每当我使用蓝牙耳机时，我的耳后都会出现淋巴肿胀，而不是我们所说的内耳淋巴肿胀，这是一个相当一致的效应，我认为这是一种热效应。
Some people will say, “Oh, it's EMS,” but I'm pretty sure it's a heat effect.
有些人会说，“哦，这是 EMS”，但我很确定这是热效应。
So, I don't like them.
所以，我不喜欢他们。
Andrew Huberman: I don't like having my ears plugged with those things.
Andrew Huberman：我不喜欢我的耳朵被这些东西塞住。
It doesn't sound as well to me as corded headphones.
对我来说，它听起来不如有线耳机。
And I also was always losing the non-corded ones.
而且我也总是丢失不带绳的。
I used to assume that there's no way that the phone manufacturer would let me turn up my phone loud enough to cause damage to my ears.
我曾经以为手机制造商不会让我把手机音量调到足以对我的耳朵造成伤害的程度。
How could that possibly be?
怎么可能？
Everything's regulated.
一切都受到监管。
But I recently learned that it's very easy to exceed the threshold of safety by going not even to the maximum volume of what I'm listening to.
但我最近了解到，即使不开到我正在听的最大音量，也很容易超过安全阈值。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
And, it's so interesting, that observation that you have made, because these regulations are different in different countries.
而且，你的观察非常有趣，因为不同国家的这些规定是不同的。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, even the same manufacturer of phones will set up the threshold at a lower level for the European market than for the American market.
Konstantina Stankovic：所以，即使是同一家手机制造商，欧洲市场的门槛也会比美国市场低。
Andrew Huberman: Wild.
安德鲁·休伯曼：狂野。
Konstantina Stankovic: Because the assumption is that Americans like it louder.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：因为人们认为美国人更喜欢大声。
Andrew Huberman: They definitely talk louder than many, not all, but many areas of the world.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：他们的声音肯定比世界上许多地区（不是全部，但很多地区）的声音更大。
I was recently in Italy, and went to this farmer's market.
我最近在意大利，去了这个农贸市场。
Konstantina Stankovic: Uh-huh.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And then I was indoors elsewhere.
安德鲁·休伯曼：然后我在其他地方的室内。
The Italians talk a lot.
意大利人话很多。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
And loudly.
而且大声。
Andrew Huberman: And they gesticulate a lot.
Andrew Huberman：他们经常打手势。
And the noise level got up there, but at one point I was like, “Wow, you know, it's so pleasant.” It's not super loud.
噪音水平升高了，但有一次我想，“哇，你知道，这真是太令人愉快了。”声音不是很大。
And then I landed in New York City, a city I love.
然后我降落在纽约市，一座我热爱的城市。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And I was indoors, an environment shielded from outdoor sounds.
Andrew Huberman：我当时在室内，环境隔绝了室外的声音。
I was like, “Wow, people are super loud here.”
我当时想，“哇，这里的人超级吵闹。”
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And there are a couple other cities where I've really noticed that.
Andrew Huberman：我在其他几个城市也确实注意到了这一点。
And this isn't a knock on New York City, but boy, Americans can be really loud.
这并不是对纽约市的攻击，但天哪，美国人的声音可真大。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And to your question, it's not really the headphone style.
Konstantina Stankovic：对于你的问题，这并不是真正的耳机风格。
It's really the sound level.
确实是声级。
And you can measure it.
你可以测量它。
You can measure it on your dB meter that you can download on your phone, if you don't have it already.
您可以使用 dB 计进行测量，如果您还没有的话，您可以将其下载到手机上。
And again, the safe rule of thumb is 80 decibel is safe for eight hours.
再次强调，安全的经验法则是 80 分贝的声音在八小时内是安全的。
And then for every three decibel increase in sound level, you have to halve it.
然后，声级每增加三分贝，就必须将其减半。
Andrew Huberman: Halve that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：减半。
Andrew Huberman: But what if I don't use this decibel meter app?
Andrew Huberman：但是如果我不使用这个分贝计应用程序怎么办？
What if I'm lazy and I...
如果我很懒并且我...
Konstantina Stankovic: So, then, if anyone can hear what you are listening to who's standing by you, it's too loud.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：那么，如果有人能听到站在你旁边的人正在听的内容，那就太大声了。
So, that's a good rule of thumb.
所以，这是一个很好的经验法则。
Andrew Huberman: Great.
安德鲁·休伯曼： 太好了。
So, parents, take note.
所以，家长们要注意了。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Exactly, take note.
确实如此，请注意。
If you can hear your child's music or podcast that they're listening to through the headphones that they are wearing, too loud.
如果您可以通过孩子佩戴的耳机听到他们正在收听的音乐或播客，则说明声音太大。
Andrew Huberman: Is there any detriment to listening in one ear?
Andrew Huberman：用一只耳朵聆听有什么害处吗？
Like setting up a strong asymmetry of sound input over time.
就像随着时间的推移设置声音输入的强烈不对称性一样。
You know, a lot of people will go with one earbud, or they'll let one AirPod dangle out.
您知道，很多人会佩戴一只耳塞式耳机，或者让一只 AirPod 挂在外面。
Not AirPod, but one headphone dangle out.
不是 AirPod，而是一只耳机悬在外面。
Is there any detriment to that?
这样做有什么坏处吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Not really, as long as it's at the safe sound levels.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：不完全是，只要处于安全的声音水平即可。
It's really all about what is the sound level that's damaging, and it's not the same level for all.
实际上，问题在于什么程度的声音具有破坏性，而且并不是所有声音的声级都相同。
In fact, if you have a construction worker, and you have two of them being exposed to exactly the same levels of noise, one may lose hearing very quickly, and the other may work in that environment for 20 years and have really mild hearing loss.
事实上，如果您有一名建筑工人，并且其中两人暴露在完全相同的噪音水平下，其中一个可能会很快丧失听力，而另一个可能在该环境中工作了 20 年，听力损失非常轻微。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, very roughly, we categorize them into those with tough versus tender ears.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，非常粗略地，我们将它们分为耳朵坚韧和耳朵柔软的两类。
That's super simplification, but it tells you that there must be a genetic predisposition to their vulnerability, because they had the same environmental exposure.
这是超级简单化的说法，但它告诉你，他们的脆弱性一定存在遗传倾向，因为他们暴露在相同的环境中。
And now we are uncovering genes that are contributing to this vulnerability, and it's not one.
现在我们正在发现导致这种脆弱性的基因，但它不是一个。
It seems like it's several different genes that are working together to orchestrate this sensitivity.
似乎是几个不同的基因共同作用来协调这种敏感性。
Konstantina Stankovic: What we have also learned, from both human and animal studies, is that children are definitely more vulnerable.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：从人类和动物研究中我们还了解到，儿童肯定更容易受到伤害。
So, another take home lesson for the parents, what may be comfortable for an adult may be too loud for children.
因此，给父母的另一个教训是，对于成年人来说可能舒适的声音对于孩子来说可能太大了。
And it's another important message for how loud different events are in elementary schools or middle schools, because by the time they are high schoolers, auditory sensitivities are changing.
这是另一个重要的信息，表明不同的活动在小学或中学的影响力有多大，因为当他们成为高中生时，听觉敏感性正在发生变化。
But there are numerous studies that have shown that younger people or younger animals are more vulnerable to noise levels.
但有大量研究表明，年轻人或年幼的动物更容易受到噪音水平的影响。
Andrew Huberman: When I was in graduate school many moons ago, I took a great auditory neuroscience class from Erv Hafter.
Andrew Huberman：很多个月前，当我在读研究生时，我参加了 Erv Hafter 的一门很棒的听觉神经科学课程。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Who's, you know, kind of one of the...
安德鲁·休伯曼：你知道，他是其中之一……
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: A legend.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：传奇人物。
Andrew Huberman: A legend, and a wonderful person, and a brilliant and just a wonderful person, and he can move his ears.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：一个传奇人物，一个了不起的人，一个才华横溢且非常出色的人，他可以移动他的耳朵。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: He pointed that out.
安德鲁·休伯曼：他指出了这一点。
He could move his ears.
他的耳朵可以动。
And I recall him describing something called the two-hit model, which has parallels to concussion.
我记得他描述了一种称为二次打击模型的东西，它与脑震荡有相似之处。
And I get asked this a lot.
我经常被问到这个问题。
Someone will say, you know, they had a bike accident or something, or have had a slip and a fall, or maybe they played a sport and they had a concussion.
有人会说，你知道，他们发生了自行车事故或其他什么事情，或者滑倒了，或者他们参加了一项运动并且遭受了脑震荡。
What should they do?
他们应该做什么？
Andrew Huberman: And the first thing I always say, based on my understanding of concussion, and all my colleagues, our colleagues, support this statement, is don't get another concussion, especially not anytime soon.
安德鲁·休伯曼：根据我对脑震荡的理解，我总是说的第一件事就是不要再遭受脑震荡，尤其是不要很快发生。
Now, people don't like that answer when it comes to a particular sport, but oftentimes the advice is, you got to stop playing the sport, because if you get another concussion soon, you're going to have serious issues down the line, maybe even sooner.
现在，当谈到某项特定运动时，人们不喜欢这个答案，但通常的建议是，你必须停止参加这项运动，因为如果你很快再次遭受脑震荡，你将会遇到严重的问题，甚至可能更快。
Andrew Huberman: But I recall Erv telling us about this notion that if you leave a concert, and the next morning you notice that your ears feel like they're a little bit cloud, like you have earplugs in and you don't, or if you hear a little bit of ringing in your ears, that you need to be especially careful about getting another high threshold sound arriving at your ears, because the vulnerability is there.
Andrew Huberman：但我记得 Erv 告诉我们这个概念，如果你离开一场音乐会，第二天早上你会发现你的耳朵感觉有点云，就像你戴了耳塞但没有，或者如果你听到耳朵里有一点铃声，你需要特别小心，不要让另一个高阈值声音到达你的耳朵，因为脆弱性就在那里。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And two sub-threshold insults, as they're called, right, to the cochlea, to the hair cells, each of which is not sufficient to cause damage.
Andrew Huberman：还有两种亚阈值损伤，正如它们所说的那样，对耳蜗和毛细胞，每种损伤都不足以造成损害。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: If they occurred too closely together in time, you can get very potent damage that's irreversible.
Andrew Huberman：如果它们在时间上发生得太接近，你可能会受到不可逆转的非常严重的损害。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And so, I wonder if...
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，我想知道是否......
It makes perfect sense in the context of, like, concussion, which we raised as the parallel example.
这在我们作为平行例子提出的脑震荡的背景下是完全有意义的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And he had some interesting experiments.
Andrew Huberman：他做了一些有趣的实验。
I think these were done in guinea pigs actually, but they also see this in industrial workers, where they have some ringing in their ears after a long week of being on the construction site.
我认为这些实际上是在豚鼠身上完成的，但他们也在产业工人身上看到了这一点，他们在建筑工地待了漫长的一周后，耳朵里有些嗡嗡作响。
They'll go to a concert, and sure, they could have gone to the concert at another time, and it wouldn't have been an issue.
他们会去听音乐会，当然，他们可以在其他时间去听音乐会，这不会是一个问题。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: They certainly could recover from their work week.
Andrew Huberman：他们当然可以从一周的工作中恢复过来。
But you put those two things too close together in time, and they end up deaf.
但如果你把这两件事放在一起太近了，他们最终就会充耳不闻。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
It's adding insult to injury.
这是雪上加霜。
And indeed, then the effect can be synergistic, as opposed to additive.
事实上，这种效果可以是协同的，而不是相加的。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I think about this a lot, because I like going to concerts.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我经常考虑这个问题，因为我喜欢去音乐会。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I also have friends that are musicians, and I notice all the musicians wear earplugs, because they're very interested in keeping their ears healthy to be able to create music and listen to the subtleties as they write music.
Andrew Huberman：我也有一些音乐家朋友，我注意到所有音乐家都戴着耳塞，因为他们非常有兴趣保持耳朵健康，以便能够创作音乐并在创作音乐时聆听微妙之处。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So, I think that there's this idea that, that wearing earplugs is kind of nerdy or not cool, but the very people producing the music that people are listening to, these are rock and roll musicians, they're all very, very careful with their hearing.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以，我认为有这样一种想法，戴耳塞有点书呆子或不酷，但那些制作人们正在听的音乐的人，这些都是摇滚音乐家，他们都非常非常小心自己的听力。
They're not messing around.
他们不是在胡闹。
And some of the earplugs now actually go pretty far in, so you don't have to...
现在有些耳塞实际上已经塞得很远了，所以你不必......
You know, maybe the other people don't even know you have them in.
你知道，也许其他人甚至不知道你有它们。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Do those work as well?
安德鲁·休伯曼：这些也有效吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: They do.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
It really depends on whether they are fitted properly, and how much attenuation they are designed to provide.
这实际上取决于它们是否安装正确，以及它们设计提供的衰减量。
Because some provide only 10 to 15 decibel of attenuation, and others provide 30 decibel of attenuation.
因为有些只提供10到15分贝的衰减，而另一些则提供30分贝的衰减。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And depending on the ambient noise levels, one versus the other may work.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：根据环境噪音水平，其中一种可能会起作用。
Andrew Huberman: In the visual system, we know that if you're in a dark environment, or a dim environment for a while, and you transition out of that environment, the eyes are particularly sensitive for the first moments.
Andrew Huberman：在视觉系统中，我们知道，如果你处于黑暗环境中，或者在昏暗的环境中一段时间，然后你从该环境中过渡出来，眼睛在最初的时刻会特别敏感。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Is that also true for the auditory system?
Andrew Huberman：听觉系统也是如此吗？
So, if I wear earplugs, and then take them out, do I need to be especially careful about...
那么，如果我戴上耳塞，然后把它们摘下来，是不是需要特别小心……
In other words, are my ears more susceptible than they normally would be, if I'm coming from a very quiet environment, or a noise cancellation headphone environment?
换句话说，如果我来自非常安静的环境或使用降噪耳机的环境，我的耳朵是否比平时更容易受到影响？
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: They are.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
And the way we know that is from people who have hyperacusis, that we alluded to before, and they are just so uncomfortable being in loud environments, or even what we consider normal auditory environments, that they wear earplugs.
我们知道这一点的方式是来自我们之前提到过的患有听觉过敏的人，他们在嘈杂的环境中感到非常不舒服，甚至在我们认为的正常听觉环境中，所以他们戴着耳塞。
But then when they pull them out, everything is unbearably loud.
但当他们把它们拉出来时，一切都变得难以忍受。
So, in fact, the first thing, in terms of counseling them, we say, “Well, take out your earplugs.
所以，事实上，就咨询他们而言，我们说的第一件事是：“好吧，拿出你的耳塞。
You have to get used to the normal listening environments.”
你必须习惯正常的聆听环境。”
Konstantina Stankovic: And we already know that the brain is amazing.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们已经知道大脑是神奇的。
It can get used to different stimuli, and it's important that it gets natural input so that it can work normally.
它可以适应不同的刺激，重要的是它获得自然输入才能正常工作。
Otherwise, indeed, it can calibrate in ways that are unhealthy.
否则，它确实会以不健康的方式进行校准。
Andrew Huberman: I know the fetus can hear.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我知道胎儿可以听到声音。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: At what stage does the fetus begin to hear or sense mechanical waves at the level of the cochlea?
Andrew Huberman：胎儿在什么阶段开始听到或感觉到耳蜗水平的机械波？
Konstantina Stankovic: In the second trimester.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：在妊娠中期。
Andrew Huberman: Wow.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哇。
Konstantina Stankovic: And the organ of hearing is fully formed in utero, fully formed.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：听觉器官在子宫内就已经完全形成，完全形成。
Andrew Huberman: Babies come into the world, ready to go.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：婴儿来到这个世界，就准备好了。
Konstantina Stankovic: Listening, ready to go.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：听着，准备出发。
And again, they hear in the womb.
再一次，他们在子宫里听到了。
It's amazing.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman: Amazing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
So, all this stuff about, you know, mothers talking to their unborn, in embryo, and fathers too presumably, but especially mothers.
所以，所有这些都是关于母亲与未出生的胚胎交谈的事情，父亲也可能如此，但尤其是母亲。
Konstantina Stankovic: That's right.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
Andrew Huberman: They're closer.
Andrew Huberman：他们更接近了。
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
Exactly.
确切地。
Andrew Huberman: They have more opportunities for it.
Andrew Huberman：他们有更多机会。
What are the thresholds?
门槛是什么？
And the reason I ask is, I mean, can they hear a whisper?
我问的原因是，他们能听到耳语吗？
What can they hear?
他们能听到什么？
Konstantina Stankovic: As you can imagine, challenging experiments to perform, and some are based on electrophysiologic data, and others are done based on imaging, and there's only so much you can do to pregnant women, for safety reasons.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：正如你可以想象的那样，进行具有挑战性的实验，有些是基于电生理数据，有些是基于成像，出于安全原因，你对孕妇能做的只有这么多。
So, it's actually hard to precisely answer your question, but what is clear, that the fetus can hear the mother's voice.
所以，其实很难准确地回答你的问题，但可以明确的是，胎儿可以听到母亲的声音。
So, anything that's of that same intensity, the fetus can hear.
因此，任何具有相同强度的声音，胎儿都能听到。
Andrew Huberman: For me, as somebody who's long been interested in and worked on plasticity, it absolutely has to be the case that the infant's auditory cortex is tuned to the precise frequencies and other aspects of mother's voice in particular.
Andrew Huberman：对我来说，作为一个长期对可塑性感兴趣并致力于研究的人，婴儿的听觉皮层绝对必须适应母亲声音的精确频率和其他方面。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, I think every mother would say, “Of course.” But, you know, what's intuitive is not always scientifically supported, and what's scientifically supported is not always intuitive.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，我想每个母亲都会说：“当然。”但是，你知道，直觉并不总是得到科学支持，而科学支持的并不总是直觉。
So, it's nice when the two things match.
所以，当这两件事匹配时就好了。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Fascinating.
安德鲁·休伯曼：令人着迷。
Second trimester.
第二个三个月。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Wow.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哇。
Andrew Huberman: This might seem like a bit of an unfair leap, but dogs have very sensitive ears.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这可能看起来有点不公平，但狗的耳朵非常敏感。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Are we subjecting them to hearing damage?
Andrew Huberman：我们是否让他们的听力受损？
I know this is more for the veterinary crowd, but I'm about to get another dog, and my last dog, he always seemed to ignore me no matter what.
我知道这更适合兽医人群，但我即将再养一只狗，也是我的最后一只狗，无论如何，他似乎总是忽视我。
He was a bulldog, so that was part of his personality to pretend he couldn't hear.
他是一只斗牛犬，所以假装听不见是他性格的一部分。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But should we be more thoughtful about the hearing of our cats, and dogs, and other animals?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：但是我们应该更加考虑猫、狗和其他动物的听力吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Of all animals, absolutely.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：在所有动物中，绝对如此。
And the most striking example is actually sea animals, like whales and dolphins.
最引人注目的例子实际上是海洋动物，如鲸鱼和海豚。
All of that noise generated by big ships and motorized vehicles that are in the water are damaging their hearing and modes of communication, to astounding and scary ways.
水中的大型船舶和机动车辆产生的所有噪音正在以令人震惊和可怕的方式损害他们的听力和交流方式。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: It's really unfair that we are doing that to the world around us.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们对周围的世界这样做确实不公平。
So, now whales are getting lost, because they communicate by sending and receiving these sound waves really long distances, miles away, and now you find them lost.
所以，现在鲸鱼正在迷路，因为它们通过发送和接收这些声波进行交流，距离很远，几英里远，现在你发现它们迷路了。
They can't find their crew, the rest of their family, if you call it that.
他们找不到他们的船员，他们的家人，如果你这么说的话。
And if they're in a quiet environment, the way they used to communicate before the modern industrial world, they function completely differently.
如果他们处于一个安静的环境中，就像他们在现代工业世界之前进行交流的方式一样，他们的功能就会完全不同。
Andrew Huberman: Wow, so sound pollution in the ocean is a very real thing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哇，海洋中的声音污染是一个非常真实的事情。
Konstantina Stankovic: Very real, yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：非常真实，是的。
It's actually messing their navigation.
这实际上扰乱了他们的导航。
Andrew Huberman: Wow.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哇。
It's incredible, because I think the paper was published a few weeks ago, that light pollution is disrupting the duration over which songbirds are singing.
令人难以置信的是，因为我认为这篇论文是在几周前发表的，光污染正在扰乱鸣禽的歌唱时间。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And it turns out they're singing longer throughout the year than they normally would.
安德鲁·休伯曼：事实证明，他们全年唱歌的时间比平时要长。
And everyone goes, “Oh, nice, songbirds singing.”
每个人都会说：“哦，太好了，鸣禽在唱歌。”
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But it's screwing up all the mating patterns, and the migration patterns.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但这破坏了所有的交配模式和迁徙模式。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, we may see the eradication of many species, which I hope people realize is not just about being able to see them in a zoo, or appreciate a photograph of them.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我的意思是，我们可能会看到许多物种被消灭，我希望人们意识到这不仅仅是能够在动物园里看到它们，或者欣赏它们的照片。
I mean, every animal impacts the ecosystem of another So, I think it's so important what you're saying.
我的意思是，每种动物都会影响另一种动物的生态系统，所以，我认为你所说的非常重要。
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Are there any efforts being made to try and create limitations on where sound pollution or how much sound pollution can occur in the oceans?
Andrew Huberman：是否正在努力尝试对海洋中可能发生声音污染的位置或声音污染的程度进行限制？
I know it's hard to regulate.
我知道这很难监管。
Konstantina Stankovic: It's hard, because it's not even tightly regulated for people on land.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这很难，因为它甚至没有对陆地上的人们进行严格的监管。
Andrew Huberman: Good point.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好点。
Yeah.
是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: And there's a lot of room for improvement.
Konstantina Stankovic：还有很大的改进空间。
For example, you have mentioned that you've traveled the world.
例如，您提到您已经环游世界。
You have noticed that in Western Europe, amplified music is not allowed on the streets.
您已经注意到，在西欧，街道上不允许播放放大的音乐。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: But in the United States, and you mentioned New York, you can have any artist amp up the volume to any level they want.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：但在美国，你提到了纽约，你可以让任何艺术家将音量提高到他们想要的任何水平。
Andrew Huberman: Or Venice Beach, people bike around with speakers blasting.
Andrew Huberman：或者威尼斯海滩，人们骑着自行车四处走动，扬声器震耳欲聋。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
It's completely unregulated.
这是完全不受监管的。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: And when I have approached some people about this topic, then I was told, “Well, this is a free country.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：当我就这个话题与一些人接触时，他们告诉我，“嗯，这是一个自由的国家。
People should be allowed to do whatever they want.
人们应该被允许做任何他们想做的事。
And if they choose one behavior, then it's up to them.
如果他们选择一种行为，那就由他们自己决定。
They know the consequences.” So, there are pros and cons to that, because as physicians and scientists, we also know what's good for people.
他们知道后果。”所以，这有利有弊，因为作为医生和科学家，我们也知道什么对人们有好处。
Konstantina Stankovic: And if that information is not widely disseminated, or if it's not widely accessible, which our conversation today clearly illustrates it's not, then having some regulation in place to protect us all is a good thing.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：如果这些信息没有广泛传播，或者没有广泛获取（我们今天的谈话清楚地表明了这一点），那么制定一些监管措施来保护我们所有人就是一件好事。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I mean, we don't allow people to dump certain chemicals into the sewer, go down the drain, because we understand the toxicity of that.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：是的，我的意思是，我们不允许人们将某些化学物质倒入下水道，排入下水道，因为我们了解其毒性。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: What we're talking about here is sensory-induced damage to the nervous system.
Andrew Huberman：我们在这里讨论的是感觉引起的神经系统损伤。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, which is no joke.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，这不是开玩笑。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: It's just as serious to me as a chemical that somebody might put into, you know, the drinking water, and you don't want that.
Andrew Huberman：对我来说，这就像有人可能会放入饮用水中的化学物质一样严重，而你不希望这样。
So, I think it's very important that we're highlighting these topics.
因此，我认为我们强调这些主题非常重要。
Konstantina Stankovic: That directly links to what you mentioned before, the importance of hearing for emotional communication, for relational wellbeing, and for cognition.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这与您之前提到的听力对于情感交流、关系健康和认知的重要性直接相关。
So, now there's mounting evidence for a strong link between hearing loss and dementia.
因此，现在越来越多的证据表明听力损失和痴呆症之间存在密切联系。
It's not that everyone with hearing loss will develop dementia.
并不是每个听力损失的人都会患上痴呆症。
So, I really want the listeners to feel reassured that they don't need to run home and purchase hearing aids right away.
所以，我真的希望听众感到放心，他们不需要立即跑回家购买助听器。
Konstantina Stankovic: It's just not the case.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：事实并非如此。
However, we are trying to identify who is at risk, and the standard tests are not that helpful in that regard, because if you get just the standard audiometric testing, where you're in a sound booth and they play different tones, and you raise your hand if you hear it, and then you have a plot generated, it turns out that you can have 90% of neurons gone and your audiometric thresholds could be normal.
然而，我们正试图确定谁有风险，而标准测试在这方面并没有多大帮助，因为如果你只进行标准听力测试，你在一个录音室，他们播放不同的音调，如果你听到它就举手，然后你就会生成一个绘图，结果证明你可以有 90% 的神经元消失，你的听力阈值可能是正常的。
Konstantina Stankovic: And it's because the auditory system is so exquisitely sensitive, that there is tremendous redundancy in it.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：正是因为听觉系统非常敏感，所以其中存在巨大的冗余。
And we talked about sensory cells, how they are connected to the brain by the auditory nerve.
我们讨论了感觉细胞，它们如何通过听觉神经与大脑连接。
It turns out that 10 different nerve fibers contact a single sensory cell.
事实证明，同一个感觉细胞有 10 条不同的神经纤维接触。
Do you need all 10 of them to perceive sound?
你需要全部 10 个来感知声音吗？
No, you need one.
不，你需要一个。
However, you need all 10 of them if you are in a noisy environment.
但是，如果您处于嘈杂的环境中，则需要全部 10 个。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, going back then to the link between hearing loss and cognitive decline, we are now using different tests to identify people who are at risk.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：那么，回到听力损失和认知能力下降之间的联系，我们现在正在使用不同的测试来识别处于危险之中的人。
And studies, such as testing speech in noise, or the ability to understand words in a noisy environment, as opposed to in a quiet environment turns out to be helpful.
而研究，例如测试噪音中的语音，或者在噪音环境中理解单词的能力，而不是在安静的环境中，结果证明是有帮助的。
It's not so simple.
事情没那么简单。
It's not there is one test that has perfect sensitivity and specificity, but the field has recognized the need to develop better hearing tests, which are being developed.
并不是有一种测试具有完美的灵敏度和特异性，但该领域已经认识到需要开发更好的听力测试，并且正在开发这种测试。
Andrew Huberman: I love hearing that, no pun intended, because when I was a kid, I remember they would take you out of class, you'd get onto, it was typically a bus or a van, and you'd sit there, and then you'd do the hearing test.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢听这个，没有双关语，因为当我还是个孩子的时候，我记得他们会带你离开课堂，你会上车，通常是一辆公共汽车或一辆货车，你会坐在那里，然后你会做听力测试。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: While that was appreciated, it was not very sophisticated.
Andrew Huberman：虽然这一点受到赞赏，但它并不是很复杂。
I like to know that there's been an evolution.
我想知道已经发生了演变。
That brings up an interesting scientific phenomenon as well, which is the cocktail party effect.
这也带来了一个有趣的科学现象，那就是鸡尾酒会效应。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Here, you and I are sitting in a room that is essentially silent, except for a few noises around us from time to time, but if we go to a loud environment, within a few moments, we can hold a conversation and essentially rule out all the other sounds.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：在这里，你和我坐在一个基本上安静的房间里，除了我们周围时不时的一些噪音，但如果我们去一个吵闹的环境，几分钟之内，我们就可以进行对话并基本上排除所有其他声音。
Do we know where in the brain that occurs?
我们知道它发生在大脑的哪个部位吗？
My guess is, it's a circuit or network-wide phenomenon, but that's a brain thing.
我的猜测是，这是一种电路或网络范围的现象，但这是大脑的问题。
Konstantina Stankovic: It's a brain thing.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这是一个大脑的问题。
It's a circuit.
这是一个电路。
And it's absolutely essential for understanding speech in noise.
这对于理解噪声中的语音是绝对必要的。
In fact, people with hearing loss typically experience problems understanding speech in noise.
事实上，听力损失的人通常会遇到在噪音中理解语音的问题。
They have no problem in a quiet and facing you.
他们安静地面对你没有任何问题。
Konstantina Stankovic: In fact, that's a big message for everyone who is listening, that it's more important to face someone and speak slowly if they have hearing loss than speaking loudly, I mean, than yelling.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：事实上，这对每个正在倾听的人来说都是一个重要信息，如果他们有听力损失，面对某人并缓慢说话比大声说话更重要，我的意思是，比大喊大叫更重要。
And so, if someone has hearing loss, and you are trying to talk to them with water running, or a TV on, or you're trying to talk to them from a different room, forget about it.
因此，如果某人有听力损失，而您试图在流水或开着电视的情况下与他们交谈，或者您试图在另一个房间与他们交谈，那就别想了。
You really have to face them, and it has to be quiet, and you have to slow down, and then they can really understand so much more.
你真的必须面对他们，而且必须安静，你必须放慢脚步，然后他们才能真正理解更多。
Andrew Huberman: Thank you for that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢你。
I have a family member who is suffering from some moderate hearing loss, and I do notice that if there's anything going on in the background while we're on a phone call, or even in person, they get discombobulated, and they're very cognitively sharp.
我有一个家庭成员患有中度听力损失，我确实注意到，如果我们打电话时，甚至面对面时，如果背景发生任何事情，他们就会感到混乱，而且他们的认知能力非常敏锐。
But the relationship between hearing loss and loss of cognition, what we call age-related dementia.
但听力损失和认知损失之间的关系，我们称之为年龄相关性痴呆。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: People normally hear the word dementia, and they think, “Oh, Alzheimer's.” But the reality is we're all going to lose some cognition, speed, or some other aspect of it, with time.
安德鲁·休伯曼：人们通常听到痴呆症这个词，他们会想，“哦，阿尔茨海默氏症。”但现实是，随着时间的推移，我们都会失去一些认知、速度或其他方面。
And it seems that vision loss and hearing loss are profoundly linked to age-related dementia.
视力丧失和听力丧失似乎与年龄相关的痴呆症密切相关。
Andrew Huberman: And I wonder if you could just speculate on whether you think that has to do with how hearing loss, in this case, you know, changes our behaviors, and then causes loss of neurons in other areas of the brain, in the same way that, for instance, if I had chronic ankle pain on my left side, I'd probably take the stairs less.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我想知道你是否可以推测一下，你是否认为这与听力损失有关，在这种情况下，你知道，改变我们的行为，然后导致大脑其他区域的神经元损失，就像，例如，如果我的左侧脚踝有慢性疼痛，我可能会减少爬楼梯的次数。
I would, at first, probably push myself to do it, but at some point I would probably take the stairs less.
一开始我可能会强迫自己去做，但到了某个时候我可能会少走楼梯。
Andrew Huberman: So, then you say, “When you take the stairs less, you get less fit, cardiovascular fitness declines over time.” And, you know, did the ankle actually cause the cardiovascular issue, not directly, but indirectly in the same way that if hearing is challenging, we're less likely to interact socially, which also feeds back on dementia.
安德鲁·休伯曼：那么，你会说，“当你少走楼梯时，你的健康状况就会变差，心血管健康状况会随着时间的推移而下降。”而且，你知道，脚踝实际上不是直接引起心血管问题，而是间接引起心血管问题，就像如果听力受到挑战，我们就不太可能进行社交互动，这也会导致痴呆症。
Is that how it works, or is there a direct link to unplugging some of the auditory input?
这是它的工作原理吗，还是有直接的链接来拔掉一些听觉输入？
Konstantina Stankovic: We think that it's both.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们认为两者都是。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: However, the direct link has not been established yet.
Konstantina Stankovic：但是，直接联系尚未建立。
Lots of studies are being done, both in people and in animal models, trying to really establish the direct link.
人们正在对人类和动物模型进行大量研究，试图真正建立直接联系。
So, there are data supporting it and refuting it, so that's why it's an active area of research.
因此，有数据支持它，也有反驳它的数据，这就是为什么它是一个活跃的研究领域。
Konstantina Stankovic: The indirect link is super well established, because we know that hearing loss leads to social isolation, to depression, and cognitive decline.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：间接联系是非常明确的，因为我们知道听力损失会导致社会孤立、抑郁和认知能力下降。
In fact, the cost of unaddressed hearing loss is the staggering nearly trillion dollars annually.
事实上，每年因未解决的听力损失造成的损失高达近万亿美元。
Andrew Huberman: Trillion?
安德鲁·休伯曼：一万亿？
Konstantina Stankovic: Trillion.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：万亿。
Andrew Huberman: With a T?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：有一个T？
Konstantina Stankovic: Absolutely.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：当然。
Andrew Huberman: Whoa!
安德鲁·休伯曼：哇！
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes, and it's because people have issues getting employed.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的，这是因为人们在就业方面遇到问题。
They may not get the best jobs that they would like to be qualified for.
他们可能无法获得他们想要的最好的工作。
All of arrangements that have to be done to make them as fully functional as possible are very costly.
为了使它们尽可能充分发挥作用而必须进行的所有安排都非常昂贵。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, indeed, it's an enormous problem that really needs more focus, more attention, and more research to develop new therapies.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，确实，这是一个巨大的问题，确实需要更多的关注、更多的关注和更多的研究来开发新疗法。
Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsor, Joovv.
Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 Joovv。
Joovv makes medical grade red light therapy devices.
Joovv 生产医疗级红光治疗设备。
Now, if there's one thing that I have consistently emphasized on this podcast, it is the incredible impact that light can have on our biology.
现在，如果我在这个播客中一直强调一件事，那就是光对我们的生物学产生的令人难以置信的影响。
Andrew Huberman: Now, in addition to sunlight, red light and near infrared light sources have been shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of cellular and organ health, including faster muscle recovery, improved skin health and wound healing, improvements in acne, reduced pain and inflammation, even mitochondrial function, and improving vision itself.
Andrew Huberman：现在，除了阳光之外，红光和近红外光源已被证明对改善细胞和器官健康的许多方面具有积极作用，包括更快的肌肉恢复、改善皮肤健康和伤口愈合、改善痤疮、减少疼痛和炎症，甚至线粒体功能，以及改善视力本身。
Andrew Huberman: What sets Joovv lights apart, and why they're my preferred red light therapy device, is that they use clinically proven wavelengths, meaning specific wavelengths of red light and near infrared light in combination, to trigger the optimal cellar adaptations.
Andrew Huberman：Joovv 灯的与众不同之处以及它们成为我首选红光治疗设备的原因在于它们使用经过临床验证的波长，即特定波长的红光和近红外光的组合，以触发最佳的酒窖适应。
Personally, I use the Joovv whole body panel about three to four times a week, and I use the Joovv handheld light both at home, and when I travel.
就我个人而言，我每周大约使用 Joovv 全身面板三到四次，在家和旅行时我都会使用 Joovv 手持灯。
If you'd like to try Joovv, you can go to Joovv, spelled J-O-O-V-V.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Joovv，可以访问 Joovv（拼写为 J-O-O-V-V.com/huberman）。
Andrew Huberman: Joovv is offering an exclusive discount to all Huberman Lab listeners with up to $400 off Joovv products.
Andrew Huberman：Joovv 为所有 Huberman Lab 听众提供独家折扣，Joovv 产品最高可享受 400 美元的折扣。
Again, that's Joovv, spelled J-O-O-V-V .com/huberman to get up to $400 off.
同样，这是 Joovv，拼写为 J-O-O-V-V .com/huberman，最高可享受 400 美元折扣。
Andrew Huberman: Do non-deaf, non-hearing impaired people lipread?
Andrew Huberman：非聋哑人会读唇语吗？
Are we always lipreading a little bit and we don't realize it?
我们是否总是在读唇语而自己却没有意识到？
Konstantina Stankovic: Some people are better than others, and as we've been discussing all along, it's not that one size fits all.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：有些人比其他人更好，正如我们一直在讨论的那样，并不是一刀切的。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: All of us are a little different, and some people are better at some things than others, and people lipread to different degrees, depending on all sorts of things.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们所有人都有点不同，有些人在某些事情上比其他人更擅长，人们的唇读程度也不同，具体取决于各种事情。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Their innate predisposition, their potential hearing loss that they may not even know, their artistic nature where they are analyzing a face all the time, their engagement and interest in what's being said.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：他们与生俱来的倾向，他们可能甚至不知道的潜在听力损失，他们一直在分析面孔的艺术本质，他们对所说内容的参与和兴趣。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, going back to your question about the cocktail party environment, it's a problem for standard hearing aids in an environment like that, because they tend to amplify everything, including that background noise.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：那么，回到你关于鸡尾酒会环境的问题，在这样的环境中标准助听器是一个问题，因为它们往往会放大一切，包括背景噪音。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, that has led to a new generation of hearing aids that are AI informed, and really are performing auditory scene analysis in real time, to pick up signal from noise and reduce amplification of the noise, and reduce feedback.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：因此，这催生了新一代人工智能助听器，它们真正实时执行听觉场景分析，从噪声中拾取信号，减少噪声放大，并减少反馈。
So, that's an active area of research.
所以，这是一个活跃的研究领域。
The latest data very promising.
最新数据非常有希望。
Konstantina Stankovic: However, what's still needed is large scale controlled studies comparing traditional versus AI enhanced hearing aids.
Konstantina Stankovic：然而，仍然需要进行大规模对照研究，比较传统助听器与人工智能增强助听器。
And, indeed, that auditory scene analysis in a cocktail party environment is a problem.
事实上，鸡尾酒会环境中的听觉场景分析是一个问题。
For example, directional hearing aids can address it to a point, I mean, hearing aids that have directional microphones, if you know who you want to be listening to, because then you face them.
例如，定向助听器可以将其定位到一个点，我的意思是，带有定向麦克风的助听器，如果你知道你想听谁说话，因为那时你面对他们。
Konstantina Stankovic: However, you may also want to be hearing someone who's talking behind your back, and you don't realize it until you hear the first sentence or two that they have said.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：然而，您可能也想听到有人在背后说话，直到您听到他们所说的第一句话或第二句话时您才会意识到这一点。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, if you have purely directional microphones, you're not even aware that that's happening.
Konstantina Stankovic：所以，如果您有纯定向麦克风，您甚至不会意识到这种情况正在发生。
And that's why hearing aids with directional microphones are loved by some, and not by others.
这就是为什么带有定向麦克风的助听器受到一些人的喜爱，而不是其他人的原因。
So, again, really all of this highlights that we are all a little different, and it calls for personalized approaches that are tailored to a given individual's makeup, and needs, and preferences.
所以，再次强调，所有这些确实都凸显了我们都有一点不同，它需要针对特定个人的化妆、需求和偏好量身定制的个性化方法。
Andrew Huberman: I'm a big proponent of trying to get great sleep, enough sleep.
Andrew Huberman：我非常支持获得良好的睡眠，充足的睡眠。
It's a challenge for everybody but it's definitely worth striving towards because it's really the foundation of mental and physical health, right?
这对每个人来说都是一个挑战，但绝对值得努力，因为它确实是身心健康的基础，对吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I think everyone agrees on that nowadays.
Andrew Huberman：我想现在每个人都同意这一点。
Again, hat tip to Matt Walker for really being the first, about 10 years ago, to really bring it out of the scientific community, because it was Dr. Dement at Stanford and others who did all this pioneering work.
再次向马特·沃克致敬，大约 10 年前，他是第一个真正将其带出科学界的人，因为正是斯坦福大学的德门特博士和其他人完成了所有这些开创性工作。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman: And he himself was a physician and he was saying, many deaths, sadly, of patients are due to sleep deprivation and fatigue of physicians and nurses, and it's a serious issue.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：他本人是一名医生，他说，可悲的是，许多患者的死亡是由于医生和护士的睡眠不足和疲劳造成的，这是一个严重的问题。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And that's just leaving aside all the other health issues.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这还没有考虑所有其他健康问题。
Andrew Huberman: One of the things that I've done, really in the last six months, to try and improve my sleep, and it's worked tremendously well, is to use earplugs when I sleep.
Andrew Huberman：在过去的六个月里，我为尝试改善睡眠所做的事情之一就是在睡觉时使用耳塞，效果非常好。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And the motivation for this came from...
Andrew Huberman：这样做的动机来自......
There's this wild study published a couple of years ago in “Nature Neuroscience” that shows that people can actually answer simple math problems in their sleep, in REM sleep, because you're paralyzed in REM sleep, they have to answer a different way, but we're still hearing a lot in our sleep.
几年前发表在《自然神经科学》上的一项疯狂研究表明，人们实际上可以在睡眠中、在快速眼动睡眠中回答简单的数学问题，因为你在快速眼动睡眠中陷入瘫痪，他们必须以不同的方式回答，但我们在睡眠中仍然听到很多东西。
So many people with sleep disturbances actually could resolve those by wearing earplugs.
许多有睡眠障碍的人实际上可以通过戴耳塞来解决这些问题。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I've been using the wax earplugs that fill the space quite a lot, and I noticed something, that I put them in and for the first minute or two, I hear my heartbeat.
Andrew Huberman：我一直在使用充满空间的蜡耳塞，我注意到一些东西，我把它们放进去，在最初的一两分钟里，我听到了我的心跳。
Boom, boom.
繁荣，繁荣。
And it's very distracting.
这非常分散注意力。
But then it cancels out.
但随后它就抵消了。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So I offer that if people are having trouble sleeping, you might try...
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以我建议，如果人们睡眠有困难，你可以尝试......
The earplugs thing actually might help.
耳塞实际上可能会有帮助。
The other thing is that we don't tend to hear our own voice.
另一件事是我们不倾向于听到自己的声音。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: We cancel it out.
Andrew Huberman：我们取消它。
Like, I'm not listening to my voice in the room.
就像，我没有在房间里听自己的声音。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But of course, I can hear it if I try.
Andrew Huberman：当然，如果我尝试的话我就能听到。
So normally, how do we notch out our own voice given that our voice is encompassing a ton of different frequencies?
那么通常情况下，考虑到我们的声音包含大量不同的频率，我们如何区分自己的声音呢？
Andrew Huberman: It has a dominant frequency, I guess in your world they call it what, a frequency envelope?
Andrew Huberman：它有一个主频率，我想在你的世界里他们称之为什么，频率包络？
But I can speak a little bit higher, I can go a little bit lower.
但我可以说得高一点，也可以说低一点。
So, how does that work in real time?
那么，它是如何实时工作的呢？
That's incredible.
那真是难以置信。
Konstantina Stankovic: It is incredible.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这太不可思议了。
And you actually bring two really interesting points, one about sleep.
您实际上提出了两个非常有趣的观点，其中之一是关于睡眠的。
So, what studies have shown is that the ideal sleeping environment is what bears do when they hibernate.
因此，研究表明，理想的睡眠环境是熊冬眠时的环境。
It's three things.
这是三件事。
It has to be quiet, dark, and cold.
它必须安静、黑暗、寒冷。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And that's perfect for sleeping for months.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这非常适合睡几个月。
Andrew Huberman: Love it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：喜欢。
Konstantina Stankovic: But then when it comes to not hearing ourselves, actually some people do, and that's very disturbing.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：但是当谈到听不到自己的声音时，实际上有些人会听到，这非常令人不安。
And that can occur if there are basically two things.
如果基本上有两件事就会发生这种情况。
One, it can be that they are missing a part of the bone that covers the bony balance canal, one of the canals.
第一，可能是它们缺失了覆盖骨平衡管（骨平衡管之一）的骨头的一部分。
Konstantina Stankovic: We have focused on talking about the hearing part of the inner ear, but the inner ear has one organ of hearing and five organs of balance, two organs that detect linear acceleration, one in a horizontal and the other in the vertical plane.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们重点讨论了内耳的听觉部分，但内耳有一个听觉器官和五个平衡器官，两个器官检测线性加速度，一个在水平面，另一个在垂直面。
Andrew Huberman: So either going for-- Like imagine someone hitting the gas on a car versus bouncing on a trampoline.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以要么——就像想象一下有人在汽车上踩油门，而不是在蹦床上弹跳。
Konstantina Stankovic: Taking an elevator.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：乘坐电梯。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, taking an elevator, bouncing on a trampoline.
Andrew Huberman：是的，乘坐电梯，在蹦床上弹跳。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: And then there are three organs that detect angular acceleration.
Konstantina Stankovic：然后是三个检测角加速度的器官。
And these are the three semicircular canals.
这是三个半规管。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So the pitch of the nod, the shaking the head, I guess its yaw, right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以点头、摇头的音调，我猜是偏航，对吧？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yaw.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：偏航。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: That's right, yaw, and roll, right?
Andrew Huberman：没错，偏航和滚转，对吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
Andrew Huberman: Which is the cute puppy thing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这是可爱的小狗。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Okay.
好的。
Got it.
知道了。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
So what can happen is that, over that superior semicircular canal, that bone can be missing partly and people can have superhuman hearing.
因此，可能发生的情况是，在上半规管上，骨头可能会部分缺失，而人们却可以拥有超人的听力。
They can hear everything.
他们能听到一切。
They can hear their eyeballs moving.
他们可以听到眼球转动的声音。
Andrew Huberman: Whoa!
安德鲁·休伯曼：哇！
Konstantina Stankovic: They can hear their footsteps.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：他们能听到自己的脚步声。
Andrew Huberman: Wow.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哇。
Konstantina Stankovic: If they're taking a shower, it's deafeningly loud.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：如果他们正在洗澡，声音会震耳欲聋。
They really can't take it.
他们实在受不了。
If an ambulance drives by, they start spinning.
如果救护车驶过，它们就会开始旋转。
If they are straining on the toilet, they start spinning and can pass out.
如果他们在马桶上用力，他们就会开始旋转并可能昏倒。
Konstantina Stankovic: So that's called superior semicircular canal dehiscence, and it was actually discovered by our dean, Dean of the School of Medicine, Lloyd Minor, when he was at Hopkins University.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这就是所谓的上半规管裂开，它实际上是由我们的院长、医学院院长劳埃德·米纳（Lloyd Minor）在霍普金斯大学时发现的。
Andrew Huberman: Amazing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
Konstantina Stankovic: And it-
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：而且它-
Andrew Huberman: Right on, Dean Minor.
Andrew Huberman：好的，Dean Minor。
Not just saying that because he's our dean, but that's...
这么说不仅仅是因为他是我们的院长，而是……
Konstantina Stankovic: But because he was such an astute physician, where he listened to a patient, because before him, when patients like that would come to our office, I mean, what would be your knee-jerk reflex?
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：但是因为他是一位非常精明的医生，他会倾听病人的意见，因为在他之前，当这样的病人来到我们的办公室时，我的意思是，你的下意识反应是什么？
Andrew Huberman: Whoa!
安德鲁·休伯曼：哇！
Andrew Huberman: You'd be like, “Come on.”
安德鲁·休伯曼：你会说，“来吧。”
Konstantina Stankovic: “Come on.” Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：“来吧。”确切地。
“Really?”
“真的吗？”
Andrew Huberman: You'd be like, “Okay, maybe we get someone from psych over here to evaluate them, or maybe they're a hypochondriac.”
安德鲁·休伯曼：你可能会说，“好吧，也许我们请心理学界的人来评估他们，或者他们可能是疑病症患者。”
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: But what Lloyd heard and paid attention to, is that the patient said, “When I hear a loud sound, I feel that my eyes are moving and my vision becomes blurry.”
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：但劳埃德听到并注意到的是，病人说，“当我听到很大的声音时，我感觉我的眼睛在移动，我的视力变得模糊。”
Konstantina Stankovic: And so Lloyd thought, “Really?
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：劳埃德想，“真的吗？
So let me put loud sound in your ear,” which he did, and he noticed that the patient's eyes started moving in the vertical direction.
所以让我在你耳边放响亮的声音，”他这样做了，他注意到病人的眼睛开始在垂直方向移动。
Konstantina Stankovic: So there is this vestibulo-ocular reflex, and he figured, well, then the superior semicircular canal must be involved, and that led to imaging that had to be really developed so that it's fine cuts through the appropriate plane, and then you could really see the missing bone, and then he developed surgery to fix the problem.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以存在这种前庭眼反射，他认为，好吧，那么上半规管必须受到影响，这导致必须真正开发成像技术，以便它可以通过适当的平面进行精细切割，然后你可以真正看到缺失的骨头，然后他开发了手术来解决这个问题。
And now, we can help people like that who actually do hear their bodily sounds that are too disturbing to them.
现在，我们可以帮助那些确实听到了令他们感到太不安的身体声音的人。
Konstantina Stankovic: However, we don't do that surgery lightly because clearly, it has some risks like any surgery.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：但是，我们不会轻易进行该手术，因为显然，它与任何手术一样都有一些风险。
There are two ways of doing this.
有两种方法可以做到这一点。
One is through the middle cranial fossa, which entails lifting of the brain to identify the dehiscence and then plugging it or resurfacing it, and then letting the brain fall down again, or we can approach it through the ear, so drilling from behind the ear.
一种是通过中颅窝，需要抬起大脑来识别裂口，然后将其堵塞或重新铺平，然后让大脑再次落下，或者我们可以通过耳朵接近它，从耳后钻孔。
Konstantina Stankovic: But normally, that surgery is really reserved for those with intractable vestibular symptoms.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：但通常情况下，这种手术实际上是为那些患有顽固性前庭症状的人保留的。
They just can't function in the normal world because if someone yells next to them or an ambulance drives by, they just start spinning.
它们无法在正常世界中发挥作用，因为如果有人在它们旁边大喊大叫或救护车驶过，它们就会开始旋转。
Andrew Huberman: Awesome clinical work and science and discovery and description of this, incredible.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：令人惊叹的临床工作和科学以及对此的发现和描述，令人难以置信。
I knew Lloyd worked on the vestibular system and the hearing system, but I wasn't aware of that, so...
我知道劳埃德研究前庭系统和听力系统，但我不知道，所以……
Very, very cool.
非常非常酷。
I'm struck by a number of things.
我对很多事情感到震惊。
You raised the relationship between the visual system and the balance system, the vestibular system, and the hearing system.
您提出了视觉系统和平衡系统、前庭系统和听觉系统之间的关系。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Do we have any idea why the auditory system and the vestibular system co-evolved in the inner ear, in the cochlea?
Andrew Huberman：我们知道为什么听觉系统和前庭系统在内耳、耳蜗中共同进化吗？
Is it just a function of neighborhood, or is there something fundamental there that perhaps we can glean from other species, that tells us, “Oh, this is...” Sort of like with the eye and the pineal.
它只是邻居的功能，还是有一些我们可以从其他物种那里收集到的基本东西，告诉我们，“哦，这是……”有点像眼睛和松果体。
Andrew Huberman: The human pineal is deep in the brain, almost certainly doesn't have access to light, but in birds, the skull is thin.
安德鲁·休伯曼：人类的松果体位于大脑深处，几乎可以肯定无法接触到光线，但鸟类的头骨很薄。
Sunlight can go through the skull, and the pineal is a light-sensitive organ.
阳光可以穿过头骨，而松果体是感光器官。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: We have a light-sensitive pineal, but it gets light information indirectly through the eyes.
Andrew Huberman：我们有一个对光敏感的松果体，但它通过眼睛间接获取光信息。
Over time, as we grew bigger, thicker brains, it just went deeper and deeper, and you need to do that.
随着时间的推移，我们的大脑变得越来越大、越来越厚，它也变得越来越深，你需要这样做。
So did the auditory system and the vestibular system start from the same origin and split?
那么听觉系统和前庭系统是不是同源又分裂呢？
Konstantina Stankovic: They both sense vibration, and vibration is such a fundamental phenomenon, if you think about it in terms of the universe.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：它们都能感知振动，如果你从宇宙的角度来思考，振动是一种基本现象。
It's these vibrations that are everywhere around us, electromagnetic vibrations.
这些振动在我们周围无处不在，即电磁振动。
Konstantina Stankovic: We're talking about sound vibrations, but now we can even convert these electromagnetic vibrations from the depths of the universe to sound so that we can hear gravitational waves, which is really interesting.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们谈论的是声音振动，但现在我们甚至可以将这些来自宇宙深处的电磁振动转换为声音，这样我们就可以听到引力波，这真的很有趣。
So this idea of being able to detect vibration is very deeply fundamental.
因此，能够检测振动的想法是非常基础的。
And even bacteria can detect vibration.
甚至细菌也能检测到振动。
They have those little flagella that allow them to move around.
它们有小鞭毛，可以让它们四处移动。
Konstantina Stankovic: And fish, for example, we talked about fish and other species that live in the seas and oceans.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：以鱼类为例，我们讨论了鱼类和生活在海洋中的其他物种。
They have this lateral line organ along their side that detects vibration, and it's very similar to the sensory cells in the inner ear to the point that we sometimes use, for example, zebra fish as animal models because they are transparent.
它们的侧面有一个侧线器官，可以检测振动，它与内耳中的感觉细胞非常相似，以至于我们有时使用斑马鱼作为动物模型，因为它们是透明的。
Konstantina Stankovic: You can see through them and you can literally see these hair cells in the lateral line organ, and test for drugs that may be toxic to the ear, although they also have the ear.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：你可以透过它们看到，你可以从字面上看到侧线器官中的这些毛细胞，并测试可能对耳朵有毒的药物，尽管它们也有耳朵。
So yes, there is this profound, deep connectedness, and in the human auditory versus vestibular system, those cells look very similar.
所以，是的，存在着这种深刻的联系，在人类听觉系统和前庭系统中，这些细胞看起来非常相似。
Konstantina Stankovic: We talked about inner versus outer hair cells in the auditory system.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们讨论了听觉系统中的内毛细胞和外毛细胞。
Inner hair cells are flask-shaped, and outer hair cells are more like cylinder or cigar-shaped.
内毛细胞呈烧瓶状，外毛细胞更像圆柱体或雪茄状。
Similarly, in the vestibular system, there are type one and type two hair cells.
同样，在前庭系统中，也有一型和二型毛细胞。
Andrew Huberman: Beautiful.
安德鲁·休伯曼：美丽。
Konstantina Stankovic: And they detect vibration at different frequencies.
Konstantina Stankovic：他们检测不同频率的振动。
The vestibular system is a lower-frequency system compared to the auditory system.
与听觉系统相比，前庭系统是一个低频系统。
But what's fascinating is that there's some data showing that even stimulation that's non-auditory can still be very impactful on our functioning and perception.
但令人着迷的是，有一些数据表明，即使是非听觉刺激仍然可以对我们的功能和感知产生非常大的影响。
Konstantina Stankovic: And there's some data showing that people who live close to windmills have described some disturbances that they initially couldn't really explain, and then it turns out that that can stimulate stimulation of the vestibular system, and it's all connected.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：有一些数据表明，住在风车附近的人们描述了一些他们最初无法真正解释的干扰，然后事实证明这可以刺激前庭系统，而且这一切都是相互关联的。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: I mean, the whole body is connected.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我的意思是，整个身体是相连的。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Out of convenience, we have decided to sub-specialize in ear physiology and surgery versus eye versus liver, but really, it's all interconnected.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇（Konstantina Stankovic）：为了方便起见，我们决定将耳朵生理学和手术与眼睛和肝脏进行亚专业化，但实际上，它们都是相互关联的。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, you can't live in northern California, which is where I grew up, for too long before somebody exposes you to sound therapy.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：是的，你不能在我长大的北加州生活太久，然后才会有人让你接受声音治疗。
And at first it seems a little silly, right?
乍一看似乎有点傻，对吧？
If you're not familiar with it, and I'm not about to say it's silly, I'm actually about to say the opposite.
如果你不熟悉它，我并不是要说它很愚蠢，我实际上要说相反的。
They're doing these sound bowls, and if I just take a step back from it, it's like, of course, sound is going to impact the way I feel.
他们正在做这些声音碗，如果我退后一步，当然，声音会影响我的感受。
That's why I listen to music that I love.
这就是为什么我听我喜欢的音乐。
Sometimes it's the lyrics in the music, but oftentimes it's the components of the music.
有时是音乐中的歌词，但更多时候是音乐的组成部分。
Andrew Huberman: And some years ago, I was very interested in kind of layers of sophistication within sensory systems.
Andrew Huberman：几年前，我对感觉系统中的复杂层次非常感兴趣。
Like, we have aspects of our visual system that encode day and night, the circadian system.
就像，我们的视觉系统有编码白天和黑夜的部分，即昼夜节律系统。
We have aspects that relate to color vision, form, et cetera.
我们有与色觉、形状等相关的方面。
Likewise, in the auditory system, you have sort of more primitive reflex type things, like a really loud noise, you orient towards it and away from...
同样，在听觉系统中，你有一些更原始的反射类型的东西，比如非常大的噪音，你会朝向它并远离......
You want to locate it, you want to know where it is, and you want to make sure it doesn't damage you.
您想要找到它，想要知道它在哪里，并且想要确保它不会伤害您。
Same thing with a bright light, you shield yourself from it.
对于强光也是如此，你可以保护自己免受它的伤害。
Andrew Huberman: I find it very interesting, I would just love your thoughts on this, that music that has a lot of low-frequency bass tones tends to evoke people to dance with a lot of trunk and what we would call proximal musculature, which is nerd speak for movement of the core muscles, and then muscles closer to the midline.
Andrew Huberman：我觉得这很有趣，我很喜欢你对此的想法，具有大量低频低音的音乐往往会唤起人们用大量躯干和我们所说的近端肌肉组织跳舞，这是书呆子所说的核心肌肉的运动，然后是靠近中线的肌肉。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Whereas high-frequency music, people, when they hear high-frequency music, will actually often raise a hand and start moving their fingers.
Andrew Huberman：而高频音乐，人们在听到高频音乐时，实际上经常会举起手并开始移动手指。
It's as if they're playing the music, but if you look at different forms of dance, and I've been doing this in anticipation of a guest coming to the podcast who's a world-renowned choreographer, you can see when low-frequency sounds are played, bass drums and things of that sort, the movements tend to be very proximal musculature dominated, whereas when high-frequency sounds are made, people will actually lift themselves up.
就好像他们在演奏音乐，但如果你观察不同形式的舞蹈，我一直在期待一位世界著名编舞家来到播客，你会发现当播放低频声音、低音鼓之类的东西时，动作往往是由近端肌肉组织主导，而当发出高频声音时，人们实际上会抬起自己。
Andrew Huberman: If you watch ballet, which I've been watching more and more ballet recently for this reason, and they're moving the digits on their fingers.
安德鲁·休伯曼：如果你看芭蕾舞，因为这个原因我最近看的芭蕾舞越来越多，他们正在移动手指上的手指。
It's really incredible.
实在是太不可思议了。
Almost like the sound frequency map is correlated with a body frequency map.
几乎就像声音频率图与身体频率图相关一样。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And you can look at hip hop, you can look at classical, you can look at Gregorian chants.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你可以看看嘻哈音乐，你可以看看古典音乐，你可以看看格里高利圣歌。
I've been obsessed lately with Russian choir music because this Werner Herzog movie used it, and I was like, “This is beautiful.” And it encompasses a huge range of sound, oh my goodness.
我最近沉迷于俄罗斯合唱音乐，因为沃纳·赫尔佐格的电影使用了它，我当时想，“这太美了。”它包含了很大的声音范围，天哪。
Our bodies have a frequency map.
我们的身体有一个频率图。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And it sounds crazy, but we're neuroscientists, so I can say this kind of thing with some degree of assuredness that I'm not crazy, at least not in this dimension.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这听起来很疯狂，但我们是神经科学家，所以我可以在某种程度上确信我没有疯，至少在这个维度上没有疯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: What are your thoughts about this?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你对此有何看法？
Konstantina Stankovic: It is fascinating because really, vibration is around all of us.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这很有趣，因为实际上，振动就在我们所有人周围。
We are exposed to vibration all the time.
我们无时无刻都处于振动之中。
Different things do happen at different time points, and there seems to be this really fascinating frequency pattern to it.
不同的事情确实会在不同的时间点发生，而且似乎有一种非常令人着迷的频率模式。
We already know that circadian rhythm exists, even in the inner ear.
我们已经知道昼夜节律的存在，甚至在内耳中也是如此。
Konstantina Stankovic: We know that certain drugs are more effective if they are given at certain times of the day.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们知道某些药物如果在一天中的特定时间服用会更有效。
So yeah, there is something to be studied even more, but keeping within the realm of what's manageable at this point in time, I will say that von Békésy was a physicist and he studied the auditory system because he worked for a telephone company, and he was charged by making better devices for communication, and he said he reached a limit in terms of what he can do as a physicist.
所以，是的，还有更多的东西需要研究，但在目前可以管理的范围内，我会说冯·贝克西是一名物理学家，他研究听觉系统，因为他在一家电话公司工作，他负责制造更好的通信设备，他说他作为一名物理学家的能力达到了极限。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, he needed to understand how the system worked, and he started performing these experiments in human temporal bones.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，他需要了解该系统是如何工作的，他开始在人类颞骨中进行这些实验。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, they are collected when people die of unrelated causes and they donate their ears for study, and he was playing sounds of different frequencies, and noticed that those of high frequencies stimulated the basal turn, the basal portion of the cochlea, and those of low frequencies stimulated the high end.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，当人们死于不相关的原因时，他们会收集这些声音，并捐献耳朵进行研究，他播放不同频率的声音，并注意到高频刺激耳蜗的基底转，而低频刺激高频。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, because of his seminal contributions to understanding how the auditory system and description of this place frequency map, plus other things that he did, such as discovering that there is a biological battery in the inner ear, where you have 100 millivolts of positive potential, which is really unheard of...
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，因为他对理解听觉系统和描述这个地方频率图的方式做出了开创性的贡献，再加上他所做的其他事情，例如发现内耳中有一个生物电池，其中有 100 毫伏的正电位，这确实是闻所未闻的......
Everywhere else in the body, cells are bathed in fluid, and the potential of that fluid outside of them is typically around zero.
在身体的其他地方，细胞都沐浴在液体中，而细胞外液体的电势通常为零左右。
So-
所以——
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, we should explain for a second, sorry to interrupt, but just very briefly, when we're talking about membrane potential, some people will know what that is.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：是的，我们应该解释一下，抱歉打扰，但非常简单，当我们谈论膜电位时，有些人会知道那是什么。
We're essentially talking about how charged a battery is.
我们本质上是在讨论电池的充电情况。
It's opportunity to create electricity of a given amplitude essentially.
这本质上是产生给定幅度电力的机会。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It's a potential.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这是一种潜力。
And you're saying in the inner ear, the membrane potentials are very, very high.
你是说在内耳中，膜电位非常非常高。
Konstantina Stankovic: Extracellular.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：细胞外。
Andrew Huberman: Extracellular?
安德鲁·休伯曼：细胞外？
Konstantina Stankovic: Extracellular.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：细胞外。
So normally, cells have some resting potential, which is usually negative-
所以通常情况下，细胞有一些静息电位，通常是负值-
Andrew Huberman: 60, 80, yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：60、80，是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
But now, on top of it, you have 100 millivolts of extracellular potential.
但现在，除此之外，您还有 100 毫伏的细胞外电位。
So, there's a difference that really drives ionic current through these sensory cells is really large, and that contributes to this exquisite sensitivity of the inner ear.
因此，真正驱动离子电流通过这些感觉细胞的差异非常大，这有助于内耳的这种精致的敏感性。
Andrew Huberman: He discovered that?
安德鲁·休伯曼：他发现了？
Von Békésy discovered it?
冯·贝克西发现了它？
Konstantina Stankovic: He discovered the endocochlear potential.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：他发现了耳蜗内的潜力。
He was the first to measure it.
他是第一个测量它的人。
So, for these contributions, he actually won a Nobel Prize.
所以，由于这些贡献，他实际上获得了诺贝尔奖。
So, by studying frequency, because you started talking about frequency and how there may be a whole hearing-to-body frequency map, I think it's a fascinating phenomenon because at least the auditory system is all functioning based on frequency, and in fact, understanding that place frequency map has been essential for the introduction and success of cochlear implants because cochlear implants rely on that.
因此，通过研究频率，因为你开始谈论频率以及如何存在完整的听力到身体频率图，我认为这是一个令人着迷的现象，因为至少听觉系统都是基于频率发挥作用的，事实上，理解频率图对于人工耳蜗的引入和成功至关重要，因为人工耳蜗依赖于此。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Cochlear implants pick up sound from the environment via microphone, and then process it into different frequency bands, and then that is delivered to the intracochlear electrode that directly electrically stimulates the auditory nerve.
Konstantina Stankovic：人工耳蜗通过麦克风从环境中拾取声音，然后将其处理成不同的频段，然后传送到耳蜗内电极，直接电刺激听觉神经。
So, if you're hearing high frequencies, then it's only the electrodes that are encoding high frequencies that are transmitting that information.
因此，如果您听到高频，那么只有编码高频的电极才能传输该信息。
Konstantina Stankovic: And so it all ties it together and really highlights how important it is to do fundamental research that is sometimes even curiosity-driven, to really lead to major advancements in terms of therapies for people, and many times, that curiosity-driven research and its potential impact on therapies for humans is unknowable.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以这一切都将它们联系在一起，并真正强调了进行有时甚至是好奇心驱动的基础研究的重要性，以真正导致人类治疗方面的重大进步，而且很多时候，好奇心驱动的研究及其对人类治疗的潜在影响是不可知的。
Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, LMNT.
Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下，并向我们的赞助商之一 LMNT 表示感谢。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。
That means the electrolytes sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质中钠、镁和钾的比例都正确，但不含糖。
Proper hydration is critical for brain and body function.
适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体功能至关重要。
Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish your cognitive and physical performance.
即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低您的认知和身体表现。
It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.
获得充足的电解质也很重要。
Andrew Huberman: The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are vital for the functioning of all cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.
Andrew Huberman：电解质、钠、镁和钾对于体内所有细胞的功能至关重要，尤其是神经元或神经细胞。
Drinking LMNT makes it very easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.
饮用 LMNT 可以轻松确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。
My days tend to start really fast, meaning I have to jump right into work or right into exercise.
我的日子往往开始得很快，这意味着我必须立即投入工作或立即锻炼。
So to make sure that I'm hydrated and I have sufficient electrolytes, when I first wake up in the morning, I drink 16 to 32 ounces of water with an LMNT packet dissolved in it.
因此，为了确保我有足够的水分和足够的电解质，当我早上第一次醒来时，我会喝 16 至 32 盎司的水，其中溶解有 LMNT 包。
Andrew Huberman: I also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes.
Andrew Huberman：我在进行任何体育锻炼时都会饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT，尤其是在炎热的日子里，当我大量出汗并失去水和电解质时。
LMNT has a bunch of great-tasting flavors.
LMNT 有很多美味的口味。
In fact, I love them all.
事实上，我爱他们所有人。
I love the watermelon, the raspberry, the citrus, and I really love the lemonade flavor.
我喜欢西瓜、覆盆子、柑橘，而且我真的很喜欢柠檬水的味道。
Frankly, I love all of them, but if I had to pick one, I'd probably say watermelon or lemonade.
坦率地说，我喜欢所有这些，但如果我必须选择一个，我可能会说西瓜或柠檬水。
It used to just be watermelon, but now they came out with lemonade, and now I love them both.
以前只有西瓜，但现在他们出了柠檬水，现在我都喜欢它们。
And as I say, I basically love them all.
正如我所说，我基本上都喜欢他们。
Can't go wrong.
不会出错。
Andrew Huberman: So if you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with any purchase.
Andrew Huberman：因此，如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman，购买任意商品即可领取免费的 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。
Andrew Huberman: No, I completely agree.
安德鲁·休伯曼：不，我完全同意。
Much of what we know about how to treat strabismus and amblyopia and visual cataracts and all this was born out of David Hubel and Torsten Wiesel trying to figure out how the visual system works.
我们所知道的关于如何治疗斜视、弱视和视觉白内障的大部分知识都源于大卫·胡贝尔和托斯顿·维塞尔试图弄清楚视觉系统如何工作。
Andrew Huberman: I guess the crowd in the auditory system, it's a little bit broader, but certainly von Békésy would be one.
Andrew Huberman：我想听觉系统中的人群，范围更广一些，但 von Békésy 肯定是其中之一。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: David Corey's done beautiful work.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：大卫·科里（David Corey）做得非常出色。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Hudspeth.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哈德斯佩斯。
These are names for the kind of inside ball of Hafter and others.
这些是哈夫特等人的内线球的名称。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But I feel like the auditory system didn't get as much attention as the visual system for a long time because we are such visual creatures.
Andrew Huberman：但我觉得听觉系统在很长一段时间内没有像视觉系统那样受到那么多关注，因为我们都是视觉生物。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But the more I learn about the auditory system from you and the more I think about the incredible ways in which it shapes our emotionality at unconscious levels, as well as conscious levels, the more I'm convinced that it's driving a lot of social development and mental health, and in some cases, mental illness.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但是，我从你那里对听觉系统了解得越多，对它在无意识层面和意识层面上塑造我们情绪的不可思议的方式了解得越多，我就越相信它正在推动社会发展和心理健康，在某些情况下，还会推动精神疾病。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: We've talked before on this podcast about developmental challenges with social interactions.
Andrew Huberman：我们之前在这个播客中讨论过社交互动的发展挑战。
Nowadays, the word autism is used too broadly.
如今，自闭症这个词的使用过于广泛。
Talk about subtyping, right?
谈论子类型，对吗？
So I'm going to set that aside, but I'm going to keep that kind of in reference for people, because what I've been learning is that many of the challenges that kids who have social interaction challenges have relate to them feeling overwhelmed by the sensory environment.
所以我要把它放在一边，但我会为人们保留这种参考，因为我一直在学习的是，有社交互动挑战的孩子所面临的许多挑战都与他们感觉被感官环境压垮有关。
And some of it's vestibular, and a lot of it's auditory.
其中一些是前庭的，还有很多是听觉的。
Andrew Huberman: They're not walking into a room and going, “Oh, there's too much black on the wall.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：他们不会走进一个房间然后说：“哦，墙上的黑色太多了。
It's uncomfortable.” And I don't know if it's the noise, or what to other people isn't noise, but to them is noise.
这很不舒服。”我不知道这是否是噪音，或者对其他人来说不是噪音，但对他们来说就是噪音。
And I feel like if we all spent a day listening to the experience of these kids, the way they experience life, we would develop tremendous empathy for them.
我觉得如果我们都花一天的时间倾听这些孩子的经历，他们体验生活的方式，我们就会对他们产生巨大的同情心。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：对吗？
In the same way that, and I've never done this experiment, I probably should, but if you spend time with people in the low vision, no vision community, try and go about your day with no vision.
同样，我从来没有做过这个实验，我可能应该这样做，但如果你花时间与低视力、无视力社区的人在一起，请尝试在没有视力的情况下度过你的一天。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: A seeing eye dog can help, there are new technologies that additionally can help, but it's very challenging.
Andrew Huberman：导盲犬可以提供帮助，还有新技术可以提供帮助，但这非常具有挑战性。
Simple things for everybody else are made very, very challenging and time-consuming.
对其他人来说很简单的事情变得非常非常具有挑战性和耗时。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So, I wonder what is known about the relationship between auditory development and social cognitive development and mental health?
安德鲁·休伯曼：那么，我想知道关于听觉发展、社会认知发展和心理健康之间的关系，我们了解多少？
Konstantina Stankovic: There are really strong ties, and it's a very active area of research.
Konstantina Stankovic：两者之间的联系确实很紧密，而且这是一个非常活跃的研究领域。
And like you said, hearing is such an essential sense, and hypersensitivity and sensory hypersensitivity or dysfunction beyond hearing can be a part of both mental health disorders, as well as on the other end of the spectrum, developmental disorders.
就像你说的，听力是一种重要的感觉，超敏反应和感觉超敏反应或听力以外的功能障碍可能是精神健康障碍以及发育障碍的一部分。
Konstantina Stankovic: And I think it really calls for, first of all, greater awareness.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我认为这确实需要首先提高认识。
And a part of what we are doing today is really bringing it up to the known, because so many people are really stigmatized because you don't have a label on your forehead that you have hearing loss.
我们今天所做的一部分工作就是真正让人们知道这一点，因为很多人真的因为额头上没有贴有听力损失的标签而受到侮辱。
It's invisible.
它是看不见的。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And people are afraid to admit that they have hearing loss because they are concerned about how they'll be perceived.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：人们害怕承认自己有听力损失，因为他们担心别人会如何看待他们。
And for a long time, it's been linked automatically to losing your marbles.
很长一段时间以来，人们都会自动将它与失去弹珠联系起来。
Konstantina Stankovic: And it's a part of why people in a social situation where they don't hear and they are having a gathering with friends, and then they're initially just nodding their head, and then they feel isolated because they're just nodding their head, and then they respond to what they think was said, and then it turns out it was something completely tangential, and then they decide, “I don't even want to be a part of this anymore.” And that's how they become withdrawn and isolated, at least a part of the reason.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这就是为什么人们在一个听不到声音的社交场合与朋友聚会，然后他们最初只是点头，然后他们感到孤立，因为他们只是点头，然后他们对他们认为说的话做出回应，然后事实证明这是完全无关的事情，然后他们决定，“我什至不想再成为其中的一部分。”这就是他们变得孤僻和孤立的原因，至少是部分原因。
Konstantina Stankovic: And similarly, if you're hypersensitive to everything around you, you want to avoid that kind of a situation.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：同样，如果你对周围的一切都非常敏感，你就会想避免这种情况。
And I think we definitely need better education, we need better ways to measure these things and quantify them.
我认为我们肯定需要更好的教育，我们需要更好的方法来衡量这些事情并量化它们。
We talked about tinnitus.
我们谈论了耳鸣。
We don't really have a way to quantify tinnitus, to measure it precisely, objectively in a robust fashion.
我们确实没有办法量化耳鸣，以稳健的方式精确、客观地测量耳鸣。
Konstantina Stankovic: And we need these types of tests for all of the sensory perceptions that we are discussing, because senses are really essential for function of the brain.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们需要对我们正在讨论的所有感官知觉进行这些类型的测试，因为感官对于大脑的功能确实至关重要。
And like I said before, the brain has really evolved to perceive and manage senses, and it also provides a tremendous therapeutic potential because it's easier to fix sensory dysfunction than to fix brain function.
正如我之前所说，大脑确实已经进化到能够感知和管理感官，而且它还提供了巨大的治疗潜力，因为修复感觉功能障碍比修复大脑功能更容易。
Konstantina Stankovic: But the brain will take care of it if it's given corrected input, and we already know that from the tremendous success of cochlear implants, which are the most successful neural prosthesis out there.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：但是，如果给予正确的输入，大脑就会处理它，我们已经从人工耳蜗的巨大成功中知道了这一点，人工耳蜗是目前最成功的神经假体。
There are more people with cochlear implants than all other neural prosthesis combined.
植入人工耳蜗的人数比所有其他神经假体的总和还多。
Andrew Huberman: Does insurance cover the cochlear implant?
Andrew Huberman：保险涵盖人工耳蜗吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
It does.
确实如此。
Andrew Huberman: It's not an outpatient...
安德鲁·休伯曼：这不是门诊......
Konstantina Stankovic: It is.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So, you can go in and out the same day?
Andrew Huberman：那么，你可以在同一天进出吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah, and out the same day.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的，同一天就出去了。
It takes only an hour or two.
只需要一两个小时。
By now it's become routine.
现在这已经成为惯例。
Andrew Huberman: Really?
安德鲁·休伯曼：真的吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I assumed you were going under general anesthesia.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我以为你要接受全身麻醉。
Konstantina Stankovic: You are.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
Konstantina Stankovic: You are.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But you're up and back?
Andrew Huberman：但是你又回来了？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes, you're up and back-
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的，你回来了-
Andrew Huberman: Excuse me, you're down and back.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对不起，你心情低落，回来了。
Yeah.
是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: You're down and back.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：你情绪低落，又回来了。
It's very delicate.
它非常精致。
It's done under the microscope.
这是在显微镜下完成的。
Relevantly, it was ear surgeons who were the first to introduce a microscope in the operating room.
与此相关的是，耳外科医生首先在手术室中引入了显微镜。
Andrew Huberman: Is that right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：是这样吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: And that was 100 years ago, and it's for a reason because-
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：那是 100 年前的事了，这是有原因的，因为-
Andrew Huberman: It was only 100 years ago?
Andrew Huberman：那只是 100 年前吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Before that, they were naked eyeballing it?
Andrew Huberman：在此之前，他们是裸眼观察的吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
And in fact, you were kind of considered a lesser surgeon if you used a microscope when it was introduced, because the thinking was, “Well, your vision is not good enough or you are not good enough.” So interestingly enough, there was some backlash before widespread adoption, and now, of course, you can't imagine doing anything precise, surgically, without the use of a microscope, whether it's ear surgery or brain surgery or microvascular tissue transfer.
事实上，如果你在显微镜出现时使用显微镜，你会被认为是一个较小的外科医生，因为人们的想法是，“好吧，你的视力不够好，或者你不够好。”有趣的是，在广泛采用之前，存在一些强烈反对，当然，现在，你无法想象在不使用显微镜的情况下通过手术进行任何精确的手术，无论是耳部手术、脑部手术还是微血管组织移植。
Andrew Huberman: Even my dermatologist has these things that go down over his glasses so he can see more.
Andrew Huberman：就连我的皮肤科医生也把这些东西戴在眼镜上，这样他就能看到更多。
I want my surgeon using a microscope or magnifier of some sort.
我希望我的外科医生使用某种显微镜或放大镜。
Do men or women, on average, these are always averages, hear better?
平均而言，男性或女性（这些总是平均值）听力更好吗？
Meaning with more sensitivity, can detect either different frequencies or thresholds of sounds as compared to the other group?
意味着与其他组相比，具有更高的灵敏度，可以检测到不同频率或阈值的声音吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: What we know is that women tend to have better hearing premenopausally, but post-menopausally, they catch up to men.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们知道，女性在绝经前的听力往往更好，但在绝经后，她们会赶上男性。
So there are data showing that estrogen contributes to better hearing and now, larger-scale epidemiologic studies are being conducted.
因此，有数据表明雌激素有助于改善听力，现在正在进行更大规模的流行病学研究。
As you know, for the longest time women were not really studied in lots of clinical trials.
如您所知，很长一段时间以来，女性并没有在大量临床试验中得到真正的研究。
Konstantina Stankovic: Most of clinical trials decades ago involved only men.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：几十年前的大多数临床试验只涉及男性。
We already know from those studies that, for example, for a heart attack, how a woman presents with a heart attack would be very different than a man, where the classical description of a-
我们已经从这些研究中知道，例如，对于心脏病发作，女性心脏病发作的表现与男性有很大不同，男性的经典描述是——
Andrew Huberman: Pain down the left arm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：左臂疼痛。
Konstantina Stankovic: On the left arm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：在左臂上。
Andrew Huberman: Elephant stepping on the chest type feeling.
Andrew Huberman：大象踩胸式的感觉。
Konstantina Stankovic: Exactly.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：没错。
Many-
许多-
Andrew Huberman: What is it in women?
安德鲁·休伯曼：女性的本质是什么？
Konstantina Stankovic: They may not have discomfort, but no elephant pressing, no pain in the arm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：他们可能没有不适，但没有大象压迫，手臂没有疼痛。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And so, we are only now starting to understand all these differences, how different diseases manifest in men versus women, and how they respond to different medications and different treatments.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：因此，我们现在才开始了解所有这些差异，不同疾病在男性和女性中的表现，以及他们对不同药物和不同治疗的反应。
And back to your question, what do we know about auditory sensitivity?
回到你的问题，我们对听觉敏感性了解多少？
We do know that women tend to have better hearing premenopausally.
我们确实知道，女性在绝经前往往听力更好。
Konstantina Stankovic: Now, does that have to do with environmental exposure?
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：现在，这与环境暴露有关吗？
That has to be factored in because traditionally, men have been more involved in occupations that entail large noise exposures such as military or construction.
必须考虑到这一点，因为传统上，男性更多地从事需要大量噪音暴露的职业，例如军事或建筑业。
Konstantina Stankovic: But these days, everybody is exposed to recreationally loud music and noise levels, so I think these studies need to be conducted with proper controls and proper sample sizes to really answer some of the questions you're asking.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：但如今，每个人都接触到娱乐性的响亮音乐和噪音水平，所以我认为这些研究需要在适当的控制和适当的样本量下进行，才能真正回答你提出的一些问题。
Andrew Huberman: If we were to look at the average adolescent males and females, they would have essentially equivalent hearing ability.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：如果我们观察平均的青春期男性和女性，他们的听力基本相当。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: As they approach their 20s, 30s, 40s, those lines start to diverge, such that men have-
安德鲁·休伯曼：当他们接近 20 多岁、30 多岁、40 多岁时，这些界限开始出现分歧，以至于男人——
Konstantina Stankovic: Diverge, yeah.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：分歧，是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Higher thresholds, which means worse hearing on average.
Konstantina Stankovic：阈值越高，意味着平均听力越差。
Andrew Huberman: Great.
安德鲁·休伯曼： 太好了。
Andrew Huberman: Great.
安德鲁·休伯曼： 太好了。
Okay, thank you for that.
好的，谢谢你。
I mean, not great for me, I'm a male, but great for the clarity.
我的意思是，这对我来说不是很好，因为我是男性，但对于清晰度来说很好。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And then at perimenopause, menopause, women's thresholds go up, which means their hearing gets worse, which suggests, all other factors removed, that something about loss of estrogen or things in the estrogen-related pathways is causing that loss of hearing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：然后在围绝经期、更年期，女性的阈值上升，这意味着她们的听力变差，这表明，排除所有其他因素，雌激素的丧失或雌激素相关途径中的某些东西导致了听力丧失。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And presumably nowadays with hormone replacement therapy becoming more prominent, the sort of recapture of hearing could be examined, and hopefully that experiment is done.
安德鲁·休伯曼：想必现在随着激素替代疗法变得越来越突出，可以检查听力的重新恢复，并希望该实验能够完成。
Konstantina Stankovic: That is now being studied because anything can be a treatment and a poison.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：现在正在研究这个问题，因为任何东西都可以是一种治疗方法，也可以是一种毒药。
So, whatever you are using, you have to look at pros and cons, and hormone replacement therapy can be very helpful in certain situations and also carries risks in other situations.
因此，无论您使用什么，都必须考虑利弊，激素替代疗法在某些情况下非常有帮助，但在其他情况下也存在风险。
And it's having that discussion of what are the pros and cons for a given individual and does it make sense?
它正在讨论对于特定个人来说利弊是什么，这是否有意义？
Konstantina Stankovic: And the discussion that we are having really highlights the need for having more types of these studies.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们正在进行的讨论确实强调了进行更多类型的研究的必要性。
However, the good news is that losing hearing as we age is not necessarily a given.
然而，好消息是，随着年龄的增长，听力丧失并不一定是理所当然的。
There are tribes in Africa where they're not exposed to modern, loud environments and they have normal hearing even into their 80s.
非洲有一些部落，他们没有接触过现代、喧闹的环境，即使到了 80 多岁，听力也正常。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, environment clearly plays a very important role, plus everything else that we take, which includes all sorts of drugs.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，环境显然起着非常重要的作用，加上我们服用的其他一切，其中包括各种药物。
For example, we and others have shown that regular intake of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medications like ibuprofen increases the likelihood of developing hearing loss.
例如，我们和其他人已经证明，定期服用布洛芬等非甾体抗炎药物会增加发生听力损失的可能性。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And what is regular use?
Konstantina Stankovic：什么是常规使用？
It's at least twice a week.
每周至少两次。
Andrew Huberman: For all ages?
Andrew Huberman：适合所有年龄段？
Konstantina Stankovic: For all ages.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：适合所有年龄段。
That's been studied in men and women.
这已经在男性和女性身上进行了研究。
For younger people, it seems like they are a little more vulnerable.
对于年轻人来说，他们似乎更脆弱一些。
The good news is that most of that hearing loss is reversible.
好消息是大部分听力损失是可逆的。
But there are other medications that affect our hearing.
但还有其他药物会影响我们的听力。
Andrew Huberman: Aspirin, in kids, right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：阿司匹林，对孩子来说，对吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Aspirin.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：阿司匹林。
Andrew Huberman: Don't they warn against kids taking aspirin for this very reason?
安德鲁·休伯曼：他们难道不警告孩子不要因为这个原因服用阿司匹林吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: It's for Reye's syndrome because that-
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这是针对雷氏综合症的，因为-
Andrew Huberman: How common is Reye's syndrome?
Andrew Huberman：雷氏综合症有多常见？
Konstantina Stankovic: It's not common.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这并不常见。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
Konstantina Stankovic: And that's different.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：那是不同的。
It's not specifically for hearing loss.
它不是专门针对听力损失的。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: However, in addition to these anti-inflammatory medications, there are others.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：然而，除了这些抗炎药物之外，还有其他药物。
There are certain antibiotics that have increased risk of causing hearing loss, like gentamicin.
有些抗生素会增加导致听力损失的风险，例如庆大霉素。
There are certain diuretics, like furosemide, that causes hearing loss.
有些利尿剂（例如呋塞米）会导致听力损失。
There are drugs that are used to treat erectile dysfunction that can cause sudden hearing loss.
有些药物用于治疗可能导致突发性听力损失的勃起功能障碍。
Most of the time, that's reversible if people stop taking them.
大多数时候，如果人们停止服用它们，这种情况是可逆的。
So what I'm saying is that there is, as always, genetic predisposition and then the environment.
所以我想说的是，一如既往，先有遗传倾向，然后是环境。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And the environment can include what we take, what we eat, what our lifestyle is, what noise levels we're exposed to, what drugs we take, and all of that impacts our genetic predisposition.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：环境可以包括我们服用什么、吃什么、我们的生活方式、我们接触的噪音水平、我们服用什么药物，所有这些都会影响我们的遗传倾向。
Andrew Huberman: What about environmental exposures to chemicals?
Andrew Huberman：环境中化学品的暴露情况如何？
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: These days, there's a lot of discussion about pesticides, which I think is an important discussion.
Andrew Huberman：这些天，有很多关于农药的讨论，我认为这是一个重要的讨论。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: There's a lot of discussion about food dyes, which, at least to my view, while I support a careful analysis of that, I think in terms of overall health there, if I were in charge, and I'm not in charge, I perhaps would emphasize slightly different things first.
Andrew Huberman：关于食用染料有很多讨论，至少在我看来，虽然我支持对此进行仔细分析，但我认为就整体健康而言，如果我负责，或者我不负责，我可能会首先强调略有不同的事情。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But hey, you know, I'm not complaining if people are trying to clean up the food supply.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但是，嘿，你知道，如果人们试图清理食品供应，我并不是在抱怨。
Just would hope that we would also pay attention to the kinds of environmental toxins that we know at low or moderate exposure can cause loss of neurons.
只是希望我们也能关注那些我们知道在低度或中度接触下会导致神经元损失的环境毒素。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Because ultimately, you know, for the neuroscientists and for you, the clinical and researcher-oriented person, neurons don't regenerate.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：因为最终，你知道，对于神经科学家和你，临床和研究人员来说，神经元不会再生。
A couple in the nose regenerate, some in the dentate gyrus, but, you know, I...
鼻子中的一些再生了，齿状回中的一些再生了，但是，你知道，我...
Unfortunately, so much has been made of so-called neurogenesis.
不幸的是，关于所谓的神经发生已经做了很多研究。
While an exciting topic, neurons in the adult brain and even in the adolescent brain, they don't regenerate.
虽然这是一个令人兴奋的话题，但成人大脑甚至青少年大脑中的神经元都不会再生。
And so anything that kills neurons is bad.
所以任何杀死神经元的东西都是不好的。
It's that simple.
就是这么简单。
So what do we know about, like, bus exhaust, car exhaust, any kind of environmental pollutants that could kill neurons specifically in the auditory system?
那么，我们对公共汽车尾气、汽车尾气以及任何可能杀死听觉系统神经元的环境污染物了解多少？
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Do we know...
安德鲁·休伯曼：我们知道吗……
Is there anything being done there?
那里有什么事情正在做吗？
Is the toxicology being done?
毒理学正在进行吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Some.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：一些。
So for example, heavy metals are known to be toxic to neurons in the ear, as well as other neurons-
例如，众所周知，重金属对耳朵的神经元以及其他神经元有毒——
Andrew Huberman: So lead?
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以领先？
Konstantina Stankovic: Lead, mercury...
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：铅、汞……
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: We talked about drugs.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们谈论了毒品。
So for example, platinum-containing compounds, which are typically used to treat cancer, are toxic to the ear and auditory neurons in addition to other neurons throughout the body.
例如，通常用于治疗癌症的含铂化合物除了对全身其他神经元有毒之外，还对耳朵和听觉神经元有毒。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: In terms of other environmental pollutants that are now gaining more and more interest, it's plastic, micro and nanoplastics.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：就目前越来越受到人们关注的其他环境污染物而言，塑料、微塑料和纳米塑料。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: They are everywhere.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：他们无处不在。
Long-term effects of that are unknown.
其长期影响尚不清楚。
We have performed a study where we exposed sensory hair cells to micro and nanoplastics.
我们进行了一项研究，将感觉毛细胞暴露于微米和纳米塑料中。
In fact, we exposed the entire inner ear, and it was striking to see that they were preferentially taken up by hair cells.
事实上，我们暴露了整个内耳，令人惊讶的是它们优先被毛细胞占据。
What that means for function, we don't know, but it was striking.
我们不知道这对功能意味着什么，但它是惊人的。
So, we don't even know what we are doing to ourselves, and it's scary because plastic is everywhere.
所以，我们甚至不知道我们对自己做了什么，这很可怕，因为塑料无处不在。
It's released at very high levels at extremes of temperature, so you definitely don't want to put a food-containing plastic container into a microwave to heat it up, because then even more plastic gets released.
它在极端温度下会以非常高的水平释放，因此您绝对不想将装有食物的塑料容器放入微波炉中加热，因为这样会释放出更多的塑料。
Andrew Huberman: Or even cook hot food and then put it into plastic and then consume it.
Andrew Huberman：或者甚至煮热的食物，然后将其放入塑料中，然后食用。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: You know, I sometimes will order food delivery, not that often, but oftentimes, excellent, you know, they're doing all the right things with the foods in terms organic sourcing and free-range meat and eggs, and then, you know, it arrives hot in a plastic container.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你知道，我有时会叫外卖，虽然不是那么频繁，但很多时候，非常棒，你知道，他们在有机采购和自由放养的肉和鸡蛋方面对食物做了所有正确的事情，然后，你知道，它装在塑料容器中热腾腾地送达。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And, you know, you're the second person to come on this podcast to emphasize this point.
安德鲁·休伯曼：而且，你知道，你是第二个在这个播客上强调这一点的人。
The previous one was Dr. Shanna Swan, who's written about this extensively, as well as declining fertility rates and how it relates to endocrine disruptors.
上一位是 Shanna Swan 博士，她撰写了大量有关这一问题的文章，以及生育率下降及其与内分泌干扰物的关系。
You know, what used to be considered kind of like, maybe or fringy type analysis of this is becoming mainstream science.
你知道，过去被认为是类似、也许或边缘类型的分析正在成为主流科学。
I mean, she's run a serious laboratory for a long time.
我的意思是，她经营一个严肃的实验室很长时间了。
Andrew Huberman: So, I'm so glad that you're highlighting this point.
Andrew Huberman：所以，我很高兴你强调了这一点。
I make it a point to avoid drinking out of disposable plastic bottles.
我强调避免使用一次性塑料瓶饮用。
I confess, if I'm very, very thirsty and it's the only thing available, I'll do it, but I really try to avoid it.
我承认，如果我非常非常口渴，而且这是唯一可用的方法，我会这样做，但我真的尽力避免这样做。
It's also about generating less waste.
这也是为了减少废物的产生。
So the two, you know, it's a twofer if you avoid those.
所以这两者，你知道，如果你避免这些，那就是两全其美了。
The micro and nanoplastics being taken up by hair cells is very interesting.
毛细胞吸收的微米和纳米塑料非常有趣。
Andrew Huberman: Concerning but interesting, and I have to wonder, given what you said before about the external environment of those cells when they're in the body and how much charge there is there, you kind of have to wonder if the neurons that are most metabolically active and most sensitive in the body are the ones that are most readily going to be taking up toxins because they're the most active.
Andrew Huberman：这很有趣，但我不得不想知道，鉴于您之前所说的这些细胞在体内时的外部环境以及其中有多少电荷，您不得不想知道体内代谢最活跃和最敏感的神经元是否是最容易吸收毒素的神经元，因为它们是最活跃的。
Konstantina Stankovic: And auditory neurons are the most active because they have spontaneous firing rates that are really high, hundreds of spikes per second.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：听觉神经元是最活跃的，因为它们的自发放电率非常高，每秒数百个尖峰。
Andrew Huberman: Really?
安德鲁·休伯曼：真的吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yeah, because they-
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的，因为他们-
Andrew Huberman: I always thought it was the visual cells, but I'm happy to know it's the auditory cells.
Andrew Huberman：我一直以为是视觉细胞，但我很高兴知道是听觉细胞。
Konstantina Stankovic: They have to be active all the time.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：他们必须始终保持活跃。
Because then it's easier to respond quickly, because if you're completely turned off and now a sound comes, it's a higher activation energy than if you're always active, and then a sound comes in.
因为这样就更容易快速做出反应，因为如果你完全关闭并且现在有声音出现，那么它的激活能量比你始终处于活动状态然后有声音出现时更高。
So, the threshold at detecting that is lower.
因此，检测的阈值较低。
Andrew Huberman: Interesting.
安德鲁·休伯曼：有趣。
We've talked a lot about the things that we can do to damage our auditory system, ways to avoid those.
我们已经讨论了很多可以做的事情来损害我们的听觉系统，以及避免这些事情的方法。
Actually, before I move on, I should ask you, are there any other drugs or things that you might put into the absolutely avoid, maybe avoid because we're looking into it?
事实上，在我继续之前，我应该问你，是否有任何其他药物或东西你可能会绝对避免，也许避免，因为我们正在调查它？
You know, people...
你知道，人们...
We're not trying to create hypochondriasis here, but I think people who listen to this podcast often are interested in things that they can do to take better care of themselves.
我们并不是想在这里制造疑病症，但我认为听这个播客的人通常会对他们可以做的事情来更好地照顾自己感兴趣。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And if there are commonly used medications or environmental exposures that they should be thinking about, we'd want to highlight that.
Andrew Huberman：如果他们应该考虑哪些常用药物或环境暴露，我们想强调这一点。
So, you said ibuprofen is one.
所以，你说布洛芬是其中之一。
Konstantina Stankovic: And all of those drugs in that category, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medications.
Konstantina Stankovic：以及该类别中的所有药物，非甾体类抗炎药物。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: That includes acetaminophen as well.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这也包括对乙酰氨基酚。
Andrew Huberman: What are some good alternatives?
Andrew Huberman：有哪些好的选择？
You're a physician so, I mean-
你是一名医生，所以我的意思是-
Konstantina Stankovic: So, if you need to take drugs, you take them.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，如果你需要吸毒，你就服用它们。
It's just not good to develop a habit of taking a drug on a regular basis if you don't need it.
如果不需要的话，养成定期服用药物的习惯是不好的。
Andrew Huberman: Got it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：明白了。
Konstantina Stankovic: And that has become sort of a norm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这已经成为一种常态。
For example, there's this Tylenol PM where they put Benadryl into it so that it would help people sleep.
例如，他们在 Tylenol PM 中加入了 Benadryl，这样可以帮助人们入睡。
Well, that's a bad habit.
嗯，这是一个坏习惯。
Do you need Tylenol or do you need Benadryl?
您需要泰诺还是苯那君？
What do you need?
你需要什么？
Or do you need either?
或者你也需要吗？
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And we talked about good diet, lifestyle, exercise.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们讨论了良好的饮食、生活方式和锻炼。
If you exercise during the day, you'll sleep better, so you don't need these other band-aids really.
如果你白天锻炼，你会睡得更好，所以你真的不需要这些其他创可贴。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
I totally agree, by the way.
顺便说一句，我完全同意。
Yeah.
是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: So then it's considering the whole patient, their needs, their priorities, their lifestyle, and helping them understand how to manage that in the healthiest way possible.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：因此，要考虑整个患者、他们的需求、优先事项、生活方式，并帮助他们了解如何以尽可能最健康的方式进行管理。
Because we really aim to keep people healthy, as opposed to letting them get sick and that sickness getting out of control, and then trying to fix the problem, because then it's a much more challenging problem to fix.
因为我们真正的目标是保持人们的健康，而不是让他们生病并且疾病失控，然后试图解决问题，因为这样解决问题就更具挑战性。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: We're talking about the auditory system.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们谈论的是听觉系统。
It's much easier to intervene if these cells are still there as opposed to if they are gone.
如果这些细胞仍然存在，那么干预比它们消失要容易得多。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: If they are gone, they do not spontaneously regenerate in mammals.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：如果它们消失了，它们就不会在哺乳动物中自发再生。
However, in birds...
然而，在鸟类中...
And you talked about birds and songbirds.
你谈到了鸟类和鸣禽。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
This is Ed Rubel's work, right?
这是艾德·鲁贝尔的作品，对吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Konstantina Stankovic: Indeed.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：确实如此。
And numerous studies have shown that birds really regenerate their hair cells.
大量研究表明鸟类的毛细胞确实可以再生。
And one of our investigators at Stanford, Stefan Heller, recently published a paper describing the specific pathways that are absolutely essential for this in birds.
我们斯坦福大学的一位研究人员 Stefan Heller 最近发表了一篇论文，描述了鸟类中对此绝对重要的特定途径。
So in birds, we really have nailed it in terms of understanding the specifics.
因此，在鸟类身上，我们确实已经了解了具体细节。
And birds do it quickly.
鸟类很快就能做到这一点。
They regenerate their hair cells within days.
他们的毛细胞在几天内就会再生。
Within a month, they're done.
一个月之内，他们就完成了。
But humans don't.
但人类却没有。
However, by understanding how birds do it, we can now start to think, can we reawaken these pathways in mammals, in humans?
然而，通过了解鸟类是如何做到这一点的，我们现在可以开始思考，我们能否重新唤醒哺乳动物和人类的这些途径？
Konstantina Stankovic: And can we do it in a very precise fashion so that we turn them on when needed and turn them off afterwards?
Konstantina Stankovic：我们能否以非常精确的方式做到这一点，以便我们在需要时打开它们并在需要后关闭它们？
Because cancer is regeneration gone awry.
因为癌症是再生出了问题。
So if we let these cells continue to divide and generate more cells in an uncontrollable fashion, that's a problem.
因此，如果我们让这些细胞继续分裂并以不可控的方式产生更多细胞，那就是一个问题。
What's also really interesting is that there isn't a primary cancer of the inner ear.
真正有趣的是，内耳不存在原发性癌症。
Andrew Huberman: Hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And that's really cool.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这真的很酷。
That's another fascinating thing that could be used to potentially even develop new cancer therapies since there is an organ that doesn't get it.
这是另一个令人着迷的东西，甚至可以用来开发新的癌症疗法，因为有一个器官无法获得它。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I think most people heard at some point that sharks don't get cancer, everyone was obsessed with shark cartilage.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我想大多数人都曾听说过鲨鱼不会得癌症，每个人都对鲨鱼软骨着迷。
That's not the direction to go to avoid cancer, folks.
伙计们，这不是避免癌症的方向。
Very interesting that the ear doesn't develop cancers.
非常有趣的是，耳朵不会患癌症。
I feel like there are two areas, at least from the neck up, that are so fascinating that we need to understand.
我觉得有两个区域，至少从颈部以上，非常迷人，我们需要了解。
One is this, the inability of cancers to develop in the ear.
其中之一是癌症无法在耳朵中发展。
So interesting.
太有趣了。
Andrew Huberman: And the other is, someone pointed this out, I think this was a lab at Stanford, that our mouth is open a lot of the day and exposed to the environment.
安德鲁·休伯曼：另一个是，有人指出了这一点，我认为这是斯坦福大学的一个实验室，我们的嘴一天中很多时候都张开并暴露在环境中。
It's a moist, warm environment.
这是一个潮湿、温暖的环境。
That combination of features means that it should be filled with infections all the time.
这种特征的结合意味着它应该一直充满感染。
And yet if we get a cut in our mouth, we bite down on our lip or something, it hurts, you get...
然而，如果我们的嘴被割伤，我们咬住嘴唇或其他什么东西，就会很痛，你会……
It heals very fast with often, not always, no infection.
它愈合得非常快，通常（并非总是）没有感染。
Andrew Huberman: It's an incredible area.
Andrew Huberman：这是一个令人难以置信的领域。
And it's our gut exposed to the world.
这是我们暴露在世界面前的直觉。
We don't like to think about this, the top part of our gut pathway exposed to the world.
我们不喜欢去想这个，我们的肠道通路的顶端部分暴露在世人面前。
And it doesn't tend to collect infections nearly as easily as other areas of the body.
而且它不像身体其他部位那样容易感染。
And wounds heal, often, with minimal or no scar.
伤口通常会愈合，疤痕极小或没有疤痕。
Fascinating.
迷人。
I know this is a discussion about the auditory system, but I feel like here we're sort of getting into the fascination about science and medicine and what we don't know.
我知道这是关于听觉系统的讨论，但我觉得我们在这里有点陷入对科学和医学以及我们不知道的事物的迷恋。
Konstantina Stankovic: It is.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And it's so important that we parse this, because there may be molecules within the mouth that could lead to robust wound healing for people with burns, for people with deformities, you know, repair of neural tissues.
Andrew Huberman：我们解析这一点非常重要，因为口腔内可能存在一些分子，可以使烧伤者、畸形者的伤口愈合，你知道，神经组织的修复。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, I have a feeling there's an immense number of important discoveries to be made there.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，我有一种感觉，那里有大量重要的发现有待实现。
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
And before I comment on that, I'll just clarify that there is no cancer of the inner ear.
在对此发表评论之前，我先澄清一下，不存在内耳癌。
Andrew Huberman: Inner ear.
安德鲁·休伯曼：内耳。
Konstantina Stankovic: There can be cancer of the outer ear, which is the auricle or the ear canal, but we're really talking about the inner ear.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：外耳（即耳廓或耳道）可能患有癌症，但我们实际上谈论的是内耳。
Andrew Huberman: Got it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：明白了。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: In terms of this remarkable microenvironment within the head and neck region, yes, it's one of a kind, and at least in part, it has to do with the remarkable blood supply to the area and the lymphatic system.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：就头颈部区域内这种非凡的微环境而言，是的，它是独一无二的，并且至少部分地与该区域和淋巴系统的卓越血液供应有关。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: There is a very dense lymphatic system in the head and neck region.
Konstantina Stankovic：头颈部有非常密集的淋巴系统。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: We even call it a Waldeyer ring.
Konstantina Stankovic：我们甚至称其为 Waldeyer 戒指。
It includes the adenoid, which is the gland that sits at the back of the nose, plus the tonsils that sit at the back of your throat, plus all of these lymph nodes throughout the head and neck region.
它包括腺样体，即位于鼻子后部的腺体，加上位于喉咙后部的扁桃体，以及整个头部和颈部区域的所有这些淋巴结。
And indeed, in reconstructive surgery of the head and neck, we capitalize on that ability to heal quickly without an infection, because sometimes people develop cancer of their jaw or of their tongue, and a part of the jaw or the whole jaw has to be removed, or the tongue has to be removed, a part or a whole tongue.
事实上，在头部和颈部的重建手术中，我们利用了这种在不感染的情况下快速愈合的能力，因为有时人们的下巴或舌头会患上癌症，必须切除部分下巴或整个下巴，或者必须切除舌头，部分或整个舌头。
So, how do you reconstruct that?
那么，你如何重建它？
We reconstruct that by borrowing tissue from somewhere else.
我们通过从其他地方借用组织来重建它。
We can use tissue from the leg, that's called fibula free flap, or from the radial forearm, or any other part of the body, and we bring it in.
我们可以使用腿部的组织，即所谓的腓骨游离瓣，或前臂桡侧的组织，或身体的任何其他部位的组织，然后我们将其带入。
Konstantina Stankovic: So now, you are bringing sterile tissue into a super dirty environment that you're describing that's rich in these microbes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：现在，您正在将无菌组织带入一个超级肮脏的环境中，您所描述的环境富含这些微生物。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: You sew it all together, artery to artery, vein to vein, nerve to nerve, you close it up, and it heals beautifully most of the time, and people do not need extra antibiotics than what's typically prescribed for every surgery, just a short perioperative course.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：你把它们缝合在一起，动脉到动脉，静脉到静脉，神经到神经，你把它缝合起来，大多数时候它都能很好地愈合，而且人们不需要比每次手术通常处方的额外抗生素，只需要一个简短的围手术期。
Andrew Huberman: Amazing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
Konstantina Stankovic: So, indeed, this area of the body, the head and neck, which is in our turf, that's what otolaryngology, head and neck surgery, is, is super inspiring and really motivating to understand, and really ripe for even deeper discoveries than what have been done to accelerate progress, not only in the head and neck region, but throughout the body.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，事实上，身体的这个区域，头颈，在我们的地盘上，这就是耳鼻喉科、头颈外科，是非常鼓舞人心的，真正激发人们的理解，并且真正成熟的时机，比为加速进展所做的更深入的发现，不仅在头颈区域，而且在整个身体。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Fantastic.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
I love it.
我喜欢它。
And we are not here to beat the drum again, no pun intended, for support of basic research to fund important treatments for disease, but there's just so much to discover that we clearly, clearly need to discover.
我们来这里并不是为了支持基础研究以资助疾病的重要治疗方法，这不是双关语，但我们显然需要发现太多东西有待发现。
I want to ask about plasticity of the auditory system in the other direction, meaning in the direction of positive change.
我想问一下听觉系统在另一个方向上的可塑性，即积极变化的方向。
Let's say, as an adult, or a young person, we decide to start listening to a new form of music, but really paying attention, or we learn a new language, or we just expose ourself to some healthy, appropriate volume levels of sound and type of sound.
比方说，作为一个成年人，或者一个年轻人，我们决定开始听一种新形式的音乐，但真正集中注意力，或者我们学习一门新语言，或者我们只是让自己接触一些健康、适当的声音音量和声音类型。
Andrew Huberman: How much plasticity is there in the auditory system, and can that be beneficial for cognition?
Andrew Huberman：听觉系统的可塑性有多大，这对认知有益吗？
Konstantina Stankovic: Yes.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, there are a lot of nice studies showing that, you know, people who play music or people especially who play music with others where you need to coordinate action, brain plasticity is more...
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，有很多很好的研究表明，你知道，演奏音乐的人，或者特别是与其他人一起演奏音乐、需要协调行动的人，大脑可塑性更强……
is sort of opened up, if you will.
如果你愿意的话，它有点开放。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: What's known about shaping of the auditory system?
Andrew Huberman：关于听觉系统的塑造，我们知道什么？
And here, I might even just go a step further and ask you if you're willing...
在这里，我什至可以更进一步问你是否愿意……
I'm sure you do all the things to take care of your auditory system, and I'm sure you tell the people in your life to take care of their auditory system, but what sorts of things do you do to enrich your auditory system?
我确信你做了所有的事情来照顾你的听觉系统，我确信你告诉你生活中的人要照顾他们的听觉系统，但是你做了哪些事情来丰富你的听觉系统呢？
Konstantina Stankovic: That's a great question, and I agree with you.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：这是一个很好的问题，我同意你的观点。
I love to listen to music like you.
我和你一样喜欢听音乐。
I also love to sing.
我也喜欢唱歌。
I used to play the piano.
我以前弹钢琴。
I hope to get back to it.
我希望能回到它。
It's been a very busy life.
这是一个非常忙碌的生活。
But I really love being immersed in music.
但我真的很喜欢沉浸在音乐中。
In fact, that's one of the main reasons that I pursued this field.
事实上，这是我从事这个领域的主要原因之一。
It was my love of music and the appreciation of how important it is for human connection, and it's for a reason that no culture has ever existed without music, and that dates back to 40 millennia.
这是我对音乐的热爱以及对音乐对于人际关系的重要性的认识，这是因为没有音乐就没有任何文化存在，这一点可以追溯到 40 千年前。
So, music perception and language have been so essential for us as humans.
因此，音乐感知和语言对于我们人类来说非常重要。
That's unique to us.
这对我们来说是独一无二的。
Konstantina Stankovic: And we, as clinicians, know that auditory training is very helpful.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：作为临床医生，我们知道听觉训练非常有帮助。
For example, we talked about people sometimes needing cochlear implants.
例如，我们谈到人们有时需要人工耳蜗。
Well, those who are musically trained, they tend to do better in terms of their appreciation of music after cochlear implantation.
嗯，那些受过音乐训练的人，在植入人工耳蜗后，他们对音乐的欣赏能力往往会更好。
On average, people cannot really appreciate music after cochlear implantation on average.
平均而言，人工耳蜗植入后人们无法真正欣赏音乐。
They can appreciate rhythm, but not tonality of it.
他们可以欣赏节奏，但不能欣赏它的调性。
But there are those who can.
但有些人可以。
They can actually go back to playing the instruments they were playing.
他们实际上可以回去演奏他们正在演奏的乐器。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: And we definitely now have growing evidence that the more you train your brain to be sensitive to different inputs, which in this case includes music, the better it responds when challenged.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我们现在确实有越来越多的证据表明，你越多地训练你的大脑对不同的输入（在本例中包括音乐）敏感，它在受到挑战时的反应就越好。
Andrew Huberman: Incredible.
安德鲁·休伯曼：难以置信。
In the last couple of years, I've been asked a lot about and I've experimented a bit with things like binaural beats for focus during, you know, learning and things of that sort.
在过去的几年里，我被问了很多关于学习和类似事情的问题，我也尝试了一些诸如双耳节拍之类的东西来集中注意力。
My read of the literature is that certain sounds, white noise, brown noise, pink noise, people will wonder what is brown noise, but different frequencies added or deleted, but white noise essentially all the sound frequencies played at an appropriate volume to not damage your ears.
我读到的文献是，某些声音，白噪声，棕色噪声，粉红噪声，人们会想知道什么是棕色噪声，只是添加或删除了不同的频率，但白噪声本质上是把所有声音频率都以适当的音量播放，不损伤耳朵。
Andrew Huberman: Binaural beats, et cetera, there are some modest effects in some studies.
Andrew Huberman：双耳节拍等，在一些研究中存在一些适度的影响。
But I'm curious what your take is on, you know, just auditory environments and learning at the social level.
但我很好奇你对听觉环境和社会层面的学习有何看法。
So, nowadays people text a lot.
所以，现在人们发短信很多。
That's devoid of auditory information.
这缺乏听觉信息。
I grew up in the era of people actually having phone calls, but there you don't see the mouth move.
我是在人们实际打电话的时代长大的，但在那里你看不到嘴巴在动。
Andrew Huberman: So, you know, my grandparents probably would've said, “Oh, you're not actually interacting with people.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，你知道，我的祖父母可能会说，“哦，你实际上并没有与人互动。
You're just talking on the phone.” And now I'm saying, “You're not even talking on the phone.
你只是在打电话而已。”现在我说：“你甚至不打电话。
You're just texting.” But we do seem to be separating the different senses from one another more and more.
你只是发短信而已。”但我们似乎确实越来越将不同的感官彼此分开。
Do you think with AI there's an opportunity for people, at some point soon perhaps, to receive a text from someone and see a video of them actually talking, in a way that's very realistic even though they didn't take a video of themselves, right?
你认为人工智能有机会让人们在不久的将来收到某人发来的短信并观看他们实际说话的视频吗？即使他们没有拍摄自己的视频，但这种方式也非常逼真，对吗？
Andrew Huberman: Like, there's actually a company out there where you can give them 10 minutes of video, and then you authorize them.
Andrew Huberman：就像，实际上有一家公司，你可以给他们 10 分钟的视频，然后你授权他们。
And then after that, they will generate a very accurate video of you saying anything you want in Word document form or whatever, and you can use that.
然后，他们会生成一个非常准确的视频，其中您可以以 Word 文档形式或其他形式说出您想要的任何内容，您可以使用它。
It would look just like this.
它看起来就像这样。
You have pupil dilation and inflection and everything's...
你有瞳孔扩张和屈折，一切都......
It's not perfect, but it's pretty darn close.
它并不完美，但已经非常接近了。
Andrew Huberman: So I imagine pretty soon, text messages will be...
Andrew Huberman：所以我想很快，短信就会......
Your son or daughter or spouse can go, “Hey, how's it going?” And they're like, “Hey, can you pick up some milk or eggs at the store after?
你的儿子、女儿或配偶可以说：“嘿，怎么样？”他们会说，“嘿，你可以之后去商店买一些牛奶或鸡蛋吗？
What time are you going to be home?” And they will have written that or spoken that, but it will look as if it's a video of them.
你打算什么时候回家？”他们会写下或说出这些内容，但看起来就像是他们的视频。
Do you think that's going to be better than where we're at now?
您认为这会比我们现在的情况更好吗？
Because right now there's a lot of splitting of the different senses.
因为现在不同的感官有很多分裂。
Konstantina Stankovic: I think it's a really interesting question.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：我认为这是一个非常有趣的问题。
There is a splitting of the senses.
感官出现分裂。
I think integrating senses is really important, and we already know that.
我认为整合感官非常重要，我们已经知道这一点。
There are people who, if they lose their hearing, they are devastated.
有些人如果失去听力，就会崩溃。
They really can't function.
他们确实无法发挥作用。
And there are others who adapt to it.
还有其他人适应它。
We think that it has to do with sensory integration.
我们认为这与感觉统合有关。
Those who are really reliant on one sense, if they lose it, then they can't function well.
那些真正依赖一种感觉的人，如果失去了这种感觉，那么他们就无法很好地发挥作用。
But those who have exercised various senses, then the other senses can pitch in to provide to fill the gap.
但如果那些已经锻炼了各种感官的人，那么其他感官就可以发挥作用来填补这个空白。
So I think it's going to be a fascinating world, and the popularity of podcasts highlights the growing interest in the auditory system.
所以我认为这将是一个令人着迷的世界，播客的流行凸显了人们对听觉系统日益增长的兴趣。
Konstantina Stankovic: And in fact, I was talking to a colleague whose son is now applying to colleges, and the colleague was really concerned because he never saw his son studying and said, “I don't know how you'll do.” And the son nailed the exam.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：事实上，我正在和一位同事交谈，他的儿子现在正在申请大学，这位同事非常担心，因为他从未见过他的儿子学习，并说：“我不知道你会怎么做。”儿子考试也顺利通过了。
And so the question was, “And when did you study?
所以问题是，“你什么时候学习的？
I've never seen you read a book.” And the son just said, “Well, who reads books these days?
我从来没见过你读过书。”儿子只是说：“现在谁读书了？
You just listen to the stuff.”
你只要听听那些东西就可以了。”
Konstantina Stankovic: So, he was studying all the material through podcasts, and prepared for the test really well.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：所以，他通过播客学习了所有材料，并为测试做好了充分的准备。
So as human species, we are adaptable.
因此，作为人类，我们具有很强的适应能力。
I think when you mention AI, we now are at an inflection point.
我认为当你提到人工智能时，我们现在正处于一个拐点。
And in fact, an essay was written that actually won the New York Times Essay Award last year, by Aschenbrenner, who talked about AI and its transformative impact on humankind.
事实上，阿申布伦纳去年写的一篇文章赢得了《纽约时报》论文奖，他谈论了人工智能及其对人类的变革性影响。
Konstantina Stankovic: And one of the graphs talked about, how long does it take for something to double the economy?
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：其中一张图表谈到，经济增长一倍需要多长时间？
So he looked at hunting, for example.
例如，他着眼于狩猎。
For hunting, it took quarter of a millennium to double the economic impact.
对于狩猎来说，花了四分之一个世纪的时间才使经济影响翻倍。
But then as new and new technology was introduced, it took less and less.
但随着新技术的引入，所需时间越来越少。
So, when you look at scientific discoveries, it takes about 60 years.
所以，当你看科学发现时，大约需要 60 年的时间。
So that's on the order of a lifespan.
所以这是一个生命周期的量级。
Konstantina Stankovic: For technological advances, it takes only 15 years to double the economy.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：就技术进步而言，只需15年即可使经济翻一番。
And now with AI and superintelligence on the horizon, the question is, are we really at this inflection point where the growth of human progress has been increasing at a steady pace, and now it's about to take off in ways that we can't even imagine.
现在，随着人工智能和超级智能的出现，问题是，我们真的处于这个拐点吗？人类进步一直在稳步增长，现在即将以我们无法想象的方式起飞。
Andrew Huberman: Super exciting.
安德鲁·休伯曼：超级令人兴奋。
Well, before we wrap here, I want to just toss out a couple of things that I heard, and I want to make sure that I have this correctly, but also just want to highlight them, because they are things that I'm going to definitely change in my behavior.
好吧，在我们结束之前，我想抛出一些我听到的事情，我想确保我的理解是正确的，但也只是想强调它们，因为它们是我肯定会改变我的行为的事情。
One is to really be thoughtful about the level of volume I use with headphones and just noise pollution around me in general.
一是要真正考虑我使用耳机的音量水平以及我周围的噪音污染。
This isn't just a function of age, I turn 50 in a couple of weeks, but just because hearing is so fundamental to how we experience life.
这不仅仅是年龄的函数，几周后我就满 50 岁了，而是因为听力对于我们体验生活至关重要。
And I think, unlike vision loss, people don't really conceptualize just how detrimental hearing loss can be.
我认为，与视力丧失不同，人们并没有真正概念化听力损失的危害有多大。
And so I'm going to do that.
所以我要这么做。
Andrew Huberman: I also really took note of the fact that you said when you talk to somebody who has difficulty hearing, the point is not to talk louder and certainly not to gesticulate more or something, but the idea is to slow down and try as much as one can to eliminate background noises.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我还真正注意到这样一个事实，您说当您与听力有困难的人交谈时，重点不是大声说话，当然也不是做更多手势或其他东西，而是要放慢速度并尽可能消除背景噪音。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Great.
安德鲁·休伯曼： 太好了。
That's going to help a lot of interactions.
这将有助于很多互动。
The other one is I think...
另一种是我认为...
I know I have developed a much greater appreciation for the auditory system as a consequence of this conversation.
我知道，通过这次谈话，我对听觉系统有了更大的认识。
I mean, I always loved the auditory system.
我的意思是，我一直很喜欢听觉系统。
I have to admit part of it is Erv Hafter, because we're talking here about somebody that nobody knows who he is.
我必须承认其中一部分是埃尔夫·哈夫特（Erv Hafter），因为我们在这里谈论的是一个没人知道他是谁的人。
He's just a very colorful and very kind character, and has immense amounts of enthusiasm.
他是一个非常丰富多彩、非常善良的人物，并且充满热情。
And so I was intrigued by the auditory system.
所以我对听觉系统很感兴趣。
Maybe in a different lifetime I would have worked on it.
也许在不同的一生中我会致力于它。
But I think until this discussion with you today, I didn't appreciate the incredible richness within it that it offers essentially every domain of life.
但我认为，直到今天与你们进行讨论之前，我还没有意识到它所蕴含的令人难以置信的丰富性，它几乎涵盖了生活的各个领域。
I mean, from the second trimester, we're listening to stuff, mostly our mom, okay?
我的意思是，从怀孕中期开始，我们就开始听一些东西，主要是我们妈妈的，好吗？
Andrew Huberman: We're hearing stuff.
Andrew Huberman：我们听到了一些东西。
I intentionally did not ask you to comment on whether or not men or women listen better as opposed to hear better.
我故意没有让你评论男人或女人是否听得更好，而不是听得更好。
We'll leave that for another time.
我们下次再说吧。
But then we enter the world and we're exposed to all these auditory environments which shape our brain.
但当我们进入这个世界后，我们就会接触到所有这些塑造我们大脑的听觉环境。
And you've just beautifully illustrated the functioning of the auditory system, the structure of the auditory system, the things that we can do to protect it, the things that we can do to enrich it.
你刚刚精美地阐释了听觉系统的功能、听觉系统的结构、我们可以做些什么来保护它、我们可以做些什么来丰富它。
And as you pointed out, this is an evolving field.
正如您所指出的，这是一个不断发展的领域。
So, first of all, thank you so much for coming here today to share this immense and valuable knowledge with us.
首先，非常感谢您今天来到这里与我们分享这些丰富而宝贵的知识。
Andrew Huberman: Please come back and update us on the discoveries coming soon.
Andrew Huberman：请回来向我们通报即将到来的最新发现。
And also, we will highlight your work and the ongoing work.
此外，我们还将重点介绍您的工作和正在进行的工作。
This is super important clinically at every level.
这在临床的各个层面都非常重要。
Mental health, we talked about cancers.
心理健康，我们谈论了癌症。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, it's incredible the number of different areas of health and well-being...
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我的意思是，健康和福祉的不同领域的数量令人难以置信......
We talked about nutrition even, that intersect with the auditory system.
我们甚至讨论了与听觉系统相交叉的营养。
Konstantina Stankovic: Mm-hmm.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So thank you so much.
安德鲁·休伯曼：非常感谢。
It's been wonderful.
太棒了。
Konstantina Stankovic: Thank you so much for having me.
康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇：非常感谢您邀请我。
What a pleasure, and I look forward to staying in touch.
真是太高兴了，我期待着保持联系。
Andrew Huberman: Great.
安德鲁·休伯曼： 太好了。
Will do.
会做。
Andrew Huberman: Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Konstantina Stankovic.
Andrew Huberman：感谢您参加今天与 Konstantina Stankovic 博士的讨论。
To learn more about her work, please see the links in the show note captions.
要了解有关她的作品的更多信息，请参阅演出注释标题中的链接。
If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请通过单击 Spotify 和 Apple 上的关注按钮来关注播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review, and you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您可以给我们留下五星级的评论，现在您可以在 Spotify 和 Apple 上给我们留下评论。
Andrew Huberman: Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
Andrew Huberman：另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast, or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comment section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问或对播客有意见，或者您希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑嘉宾或主题，请将这些内容放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
Andrew Huberman: It's entitled “Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body.” This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience.
Andrew Huberman：它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这本书是我花了五年多时间编写的，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验。
And it covers protocols for everything from sleep, to exercise, to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它涵盖了从睡眠、锻炼、压力控制、与注意力和动机相关的各个方面的协议，当然，我还为所包含的协议提供了科学依据。
Andrew Huberman: The book is now available by pre-sale at protocolsbook.com.
Andrew Huberman：这本书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called “Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body.” And if you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 hubermanlab。
So that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客上的信息不同。
Andrew Huberman: Again, it's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
Andrew Huberman：再说一次，所有社交媒体平台上都是 hubermanlab。
And if you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as what we call protocols in the form of one to three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep, how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及我们所说的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议，涵盖从如何优化睡眠、如何优化多巴胺、故意冷暴露等所有内容。
Andrew Huberman: We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training.
Andrew Huberman：我们有一个基本的健身方案，涵盖心血管训练和阻力训练。
All of that is available completely zero cost.
所有这些都是完全零成本可用的。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to newsletter, and enter your email.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的菜单选项卡，向下滚动到时事通讯，然后输入您的电子邮件即可。
And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Konstantina Stankovic.
再次感谢您参加今天与康斯坦蒂娜·斯坦科维奇博士的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。