Mark Zuckerberg & Dr. Priscilla Chan: Curing All Human Diseases & the Future of Health & Technology

I'm Andrew Huberman.

我是安德鲁·休伯曼。

And I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是斯坦福大学医学院的神经生物学和眼科教授。

My guests today are Mark Zuckerberg and Dr. Priscilla Chan.

今天我的客人是马克·扎克伯格和普莉希拉·陈博士。

Mark Zuckerberg, as everybody knows, founded the company Facebook.

众所周知，马克·扎克伯格创立了 Facebook 公司。

He is now the CEO of Meta, which includes Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, and other technology platforms.

他现在是 Meta 的首席执行官，该公司旗下包括 Facebook、Instagram、WhatsApp 和其他技术平台。

Dr. Priscilla Chan graduated from Harvard and went on to do her medical degree at the University of California San Francisco.

Priscilla Chan 博士毕业于哈佛大学，随后在加州大学旧金山分校攻读医学学位。

Mark Zuckerberg and Dr. Priscilla Chan are married and the co-founders of the CZI, or Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, a philanthropic organization whose stated goal is to cure all human diseases.

马克·扎克伯格 (Mark Zuckerberg) 和普里西拉·陈 (Priscilla Chan) 博士已婚，并且是 CZI（或陈·扎克伯格倡议）的联合创始人，这是一个慈善组织，其既定目标是治愈所有人类疾病。

The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative is accomplishing that by providing critical funding not available elsewhere, as well as a novel framework for discovery of the basic functioning of cells, cataloging all the different human cell types, as well as providing AI, or artificial intelligence, platforms to mine all of that data to discover new pathways and cures for all human diseases.

陈·扎克伯格计划正在通过提供其他地方无法提供的关键资金、用于发现细胞基本功能的新颖框架、对所有不同的人类细胞类型进行编目、以及提供人工智能平台来挖掘所有这些数据以发现所有人类疾病的新途径和治疗方法来实现这一目标。

The first hour of today's discussion is held with both Dr. Priscilla Chan and Mark Zuckerberg, during which we discuss the CZI and what it really means to try and cure all human diseases.

今天讨论的第一个小时是由 Priscilla Chan 博士和马克·扎克伯格共同进行，期间我们讨论了 CZI 以及尝试治愈所有人类疾病的真正含义。

We talk about the motivational backbone for the CZI that extends well into each of their personal histories.

我们谈论 CZI 的激励支柱，这种支柱深入到他们每个人的个人经历中。

Indeed, you'll learn quite a lot about Dr. Priscilla Chan, who has, I must say, an absolutely incredible family story leading up to her role as a physician and her motivations for the CZI and beyond.

事实上，您会了解到很多关于 Priscilla Chan 医生的信息，我必须说，她有一个绝对令人难以置信的家庭故事，导致她成为一名医生，以及她对 CZI 及其他方面的动机。

And you'll learn from Mark, how he is bringing an engineering and AI perspective to the discovery of new cures for human disease.

您将从 Mark 那里了解到他如何将工程和人工智能的视角应用于发现人类疾病的新疗法。

The second half of today's discussion is just between Mark Zuckerberg and me, during which we discuss various Meta Platforms, including, of course, social media platforms, and their effects on mental health in children and adults.

今天讨论的后半部分是马克·扎克伯格和我之间的，期间我们讨论了各种元平台，当然包括社交媒体平台，以及它们对儿童和成人心理健康的影响。

We also discuss VR, Virtual Reality, as well as augmented and mixed reality.

我们还讨论 VR、虚拟现实以及增强现实和混合现实。

And we discuss AI, Artificial Intelligence, and how it stands to transform not just our online experiences with social media and other technologies, but how it stands to potentially transform every aspect of everyday life.

我们讨论人工智能，以及它如何不仅改变我们通过社交媒体和其他技术的在线体验，而且还如何潜在地改变日常生活的各个方面。

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。

In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。

Our first sponsor is Eight Sleep.

我们的第一个赞助商是八睡。

Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.

August Sleep 生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能的智能床垫套。

I've spoken many times before on this podcast about the fact that getting a great night's sleep really is the foundation of mental health, physical health and performance.

我之前在这个播客上多次说过，睡个好觉确实是心理健康、身体健康和表现的基础。

One of the key things to getting a great night's sleep is to make sure that the temperature of your sleeping environment is correct.

获得良好睡眠的关键之一是确保睡眠环境的温度正确。

And that's because in order to fall and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about 1 to 3 degrees.

这是因为为了入睡并保持深度睡眠，您的体温实际上必须下降约 1 到 3 度。

And in order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature actually has to increase by about 1 to 3 degrees.

为了醒来时感觉神清气爽、精力充沛，您的体温实际上必须升高约 1 到 3 度。

With Eight Sleep, you can program the temperature of your sleeping environment in the beginning, middle, and end of your night.

通过“八睡眠”，您可以在晚上的开始、中间和结束时设置睡眠环境的温度。

It has a number of other features, like tracking the amount of rapid eye movement and slow wave sleep that you get, things that are essential to really dialing in the perfect night's sleep for you.

它还有许多其他功能，例如跟踪您获得的快速眼动和慢波睡眠的数量，这些功能对于真正为您带来完美的夜间睡眠至关重要。

I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for well over two years now.

我已经睡在八睡床罩上两年多了。

And it has greatly improved my sleep.

而且它极大地改善了我的睡眠。

I fall asleep far more quickly.

我入睡的速度更快。

I wake up far less often in the middle of the night.

我半夜醒来的次数要少得多。

And I wake up feeling far more refreshed than I ever did prior to using an Eight Sleep mattress cover.

我醒来时感觉比使用八睡眠床垫套之前更加神清气爽。

If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, you can go to eightsleep.com/huberman to save $150 off their Pod 3 cover.

如果您想尝试八睡眠，您可以访问八睡眠.com/huberman，在其 Pod 3 封面上可节省 150 美元。

Eight Sleep currently ships to the USA, Canada, UK, select countries in the EU, and Australia.

八睡眠目前运往美国、加拿大、英国、欧盟部分国家和澳大利亚。

Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman.

再说一遍，这是八睡眠.com/huberman。

Today's episode is also brought to us by LMNT.

今天的节目也是LMNT给我们带来的。

LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.

LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。

That means plenty of electrolytes-- sodium, magnesium and potassium-- and no sugar.

这意味着需要大量的电解质——钠、镁和钾——并且不含糖。

The electrolytes are absolutely essential for the functioning of every cell in your body.

电解质对于体内每个细胞的功能至关重要。

And your neurons, your nerve cells, rely on sodium, magnesium and potassium in order to communicate with one another electrically and chemically.

你的神经元、神经细胞依靠钠、镁和钾来相互进行电气和化学通讯。

LMNT contains the optimal ratio of electrolytes for the functioning of neurons and the other cells of your body.

LMNT 含有适合神经元和身体其他细胞功能的最佳电解质比例。

Every morning, I drink a packet of LMNT dissolved in about 32 ounces of water.

每天早上，我都会喝一包溶解在约 32 盎司水中的 LMNT。

I do that just for general hydration and to make sure that I have adequate electrolytes for any activities that day.

我这样做只是为了补充水分，并确保我有足够的电解质来进行当天的任何活动。

I'll often also have an LMNT packet, or even two packets, in 32 to 60 ounces of water if I'm exercising very hard and certainly if I'm sweating a lot, in order to make sure that I replace those electrolytes.

如果我运动非常剧烈，当然如果我出汗很多，我通常还会在 32 至 60 盎司水中准备一包或什至两包 LMNT，以确保补充这些电解质。

If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman to get a free sample pack with your purchase.

如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman，在购买时获取免费样品包。

Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman.

再说一遍，这是 Drinklmnt.com/huberman。

I'm pleased to announce that we will be hosting four live events in Australia, each of which is entitled The Brain Body Contract, during which I will share science and science-related tools for mental health, physical health, and performance.

我很高兴地宣布，我们将在澳大利亚举办四场现场活动，每场活动的标题都是“脑体契约”，在此期间我将分享有关心理健康、身体健康和表现的科学和科学相关工具。

There will also be a live question and answer session.

还将举行现场问答环节。

We have limited tickets still available for the event in Melbourne on February 10, as well as the event in Brisbane on February 24.

2 月 10 日在墨尔本举行的活动以及 2 月 24 日在布里斯班举行的活动的门票仍然有限。

Our event in Sydney, at the Sydney Opera House, sold out very quickly.

我们在悉尼的悉尼歌剧院举办的活动很快就卖完了。

So as a consequence, we've now scheduled a second event in Sydney at the Aware Super Theatre on February 18.

因此，我们现在计划于 2 月 18 日在悉尼 Aware Super Theater 举办第二场活动。

To access tickets to any of these events, you can go to hubermanlab.com/events and use the code Huberman at checkout.

要获取任何这些活动的门票，您可以访问 hubermanlab.com/events 并在结帐时使用代码 Huberman。

I hope to see you there.

我希望在那里见到你。

And as always, thank you for your interest in science.

一如既往，感谢您对科学的兴趣。

And now, for my discussion with Mark Zuckerberg and Dr. Priscilla Chan.

现在，我与马克·扎克伯格和普里西拉·陈博士进行了讨论。

Priscilla, Mark, so great to meet you.

普里西拉，马克，很高兴见到你们。

And thank you for having me here in your home.

感谢您邀请我来到您家。

Mark has been a builder throughout his career.

马克在他的整个职业生涯中一直是一名建筑商。

And what could we do if we actually put together a team to build tools, do great science?

如果我们真的组建一个团队来构建工具、从事伟大的科学研究，我们能做什么？

And so within our science portfolio, we've really been focused on what some people think is either an incredibly audacious goal or an inevitable goal.

因此，在我们的科学组合中，我们真正关注的是一些人认为要么是极其大胆的目标，要么是不可避免的目标。

But I think about it as something that will happen if we continue focusing on it, which is to be able to cure, prevent, or manage all disease by the end of the century.

但我认为，如果我们继续关注它，那就会发生一些事情，那就是到本世纪末能够治愈、预防或控制所有疾病。

And so that's what we launched in 2015.

这就是我们在 2015 年推出的产品。

We do work in three ways.

我们通过三种方式开展工作。

We fund great scientists.

我们资助伟大的科学家。

We build tools-- right now, software tools to help move science along and make it easier for scientists to do their work.

我们构建工具——现在是软件工具来帮助推动科学发展，让科学家更容易地完成他们的工作。

And we do science.

我们做科学。

You mentioned Stanford being an important pillar for our science work.

您提到斯坦福大学是我们科学工作的重要支柱。

We've built what we call biohubs, institutes where teams can take on grand challenges to do work that wouldn't be possible in a single lab or within a single discipline.

我们建立了所谓的生物中心和研究所，团队可以在其中接受巨大的挑战，完成在单个实验室或单个学科内不可能完成的工作。

And our first biohub was launched in San Francisco, a collaboration between Stanford, UC Berkeley, and UCSF.

我们的第一个生物中心在旧金山成立，由斯坦福大学、加州大学伯克利分校和加州大学旧金山分校合作建立。

What I'm basically saying is, how are you attacking this?

我基本上想说的是，你如何攻击这个？

My belief is that the cell sits at the center of all discussion about disease, given that our body is made up of cells and different types of cells.

我相信，鉴于我们的身体是由细胞和不同类型的细胞组成的，细胞是所有有关疾病讨论的中心。

So maybe you could just illuminate for us a little bit of what the cell is, in your mind, as it relates to disease and how one goes about understanding disease in the context of cells because, ultimately, that's what we're made up of.

所以也许你可以为我们阐明一点你心目中的细胞是什么，因为它与疾病有关，以及人们如何在细胞的背景下理解疾病，因为最终，这就是我们的组成部分。

And we spent a lot of time, when we were getting started with this, looking at the history of science and trying to understand the trends and how they've played out over time.

当我们开始研究这个问题时，我们花了很多时间来研究科学的历史，并试图了解趋势以及它们如何随着时间的推移而发挥作用。

And if you look over this very long-term arc, most large-scale discoveries are preceded by the invention of a new tool or a new way to see something.

如果你观察这个非常长期的弧线，大多数大规模发现之前都会出现新工具或观察事物的新方法。

And it's not just in biology, right?

这不仅仅是在生物学中，对吧？

It's like having a telescope came before a lot of discoveries in astronomy and astrophysics.

这就像在天文学和天体物理学的许多发现之前就有望远镜一样。

But similarly, the microscope and just different ways to observe things or different platforms, like the ability to do vaccines preceded the ability to cure a lot of different things.

但同样地，显微镜和观察事物的不同方式或不同的平台，比如制造疫苗的能力先于治愈许多不同事物的能力。

So this is the engineering part that you were talking about, about building tools.

这就是您所说的工程部分，关于构建工具。

We view our goal is to try to bring together some scientific and engineering knowledge to build tools that empower the whole field.

我们认为我们的目标是尝试汇集一些科学和工程知识来构建为整个领域提供支持的工具。

And that's the big arc and a lot of the things that we're focused on, including the work in single cell and cell understanding, which you can jump in and get into that if you want.

这就是我们关注的大弧线和很多事情，包括单细胞和细胞理解方面的工作，如果你愿意的话，你可以直接参与其中。

But yeah, I think I think we generally agree with the premise that if you want to understand this stuff from first principles-- people study organs a lot right.

但是，是的，我想我们普遍同意这样一个前提：如果你想从第一原理来理解这些东西——人们对器官的研究非常正确。

You study how things present across the body.

您研究事物在身体中的呈现方式。

But there's not a very widespread understanding of how each cell operates.

但对于每个细胞的运作方式还没有非常广泛的了解。

And this is a big part of some of the initial work that we tried to do on the Human Cell Atlas and understanding what are the different cells.

这是我们试图在人类细胞图谱上所做的一些初步工作的重要组成部分，并了解什么是不同的细胞。

And there's a bunch more work that we want to do to carry that forward.

为了推进这一目标，我们还有很多工作要做。

But overall, I think, when we think about the next 10 years here of this long arc to try to empower the community to be able to cure, prevent or manage all diseases, we think that the next 10 years should really be primarily about being able to measure and observe more things in human biology.

但总的来说，我认为，当我们思考接下来的 10 年，试图让社区能够治愈、预防或管理所有疾病时，我们认为接下来的 10 年实际上应该主要是能够测量和观察人类生物学中的更多事物。

There are a lot of limits to that.

这有很多限制。

It's like you want to look at something through a microscope, you can't usually see living tissues because it's hard to see through skin or things like that.

就像你想通过显微镜观察某些东西一样，你通常看不到活体组织，因为很难透过皮肤或类似的东西看到。

So there are a lot of different techniques that will help us observe different things.

因此，有很多不同的技术可以帮助我们观察不同的事物。

And this is where the engineering background comes in a bit because-- I mean, when I think about this is from the perspective of how you'd write code or something, the idea of trying to debug or fix a code base, but not be able to step through the code line by line, it's not going to happen, right?

这就是工程背景的用武之地，因为——我的意思是，当我从如何编写代码或其他东西的角度思考这个问题时，尝试调试或修复代码库的想法，但无法逐行执行代码，这是不会发生的，对吗？

And at the beginning of any big project that we do at Meta, we like to spend a bunch of the time up front just trying to instrument things and understand what are we going to look at and how are we going to measure things so we know we're making progress and know what to optimize.

在 Meta 所做的任何大型项目开始时，我们喜欢预先花大量时间尝试检测事物并了解我们要查看什么以及如何衡量事物，以便我们知道我们正在取得进展并知道要优化哪些内容。

And this is such a long-term journey that we think that it actually makes sense to take the next 10 years to build those kinds of tools for biology and understanding just how the human body works in action.

这是一个如此漫长的旅程，我们认为在未来 10 年里构建此类生物学工具并了解人体如何运作实际上是有意义的。

And a big part of that is, cells.

其中很大一部分是细胞。

I don't know.

我不知道。

Do you want to jump and talk about some of the efforts?

你想跳出来谈谈一些努力吗？

The other component is you want to be able to see things, as you pointed out.

正如您所指出的，另一个组成部分是您希望能够看到事物。

So you want to know that normal disease process-- like, what is a healthy cell?

所以你想知道正常的疾病过程——比如，什么是健康细胞？

What's a diseased cell?

什么是病变细胞？

Are cells constantly being bombarded with challenges and then repairing those?

细胞是否不断受到挑战的轰炸，然后进行修复？

And then what we call cancer is just a runaway train of those challenges not being met by the cell itself or something like that?

那么我们所说的癌症只是细胞本身无法应对的那些挑战的失控列车或类似的东西？

So better imaging tools.

所以更好的成像工具。

And then it sounds like there's not just a hardware component, but a software component.

听起来不仅有硬件组件，还有软件组件。

This is where AI comes in.

这就是人工智能发挥作用的地方。

So maybe, at some point, we can break this up into two, three different avenues.

因此，也许在某个时候，我们可以将其分为两、三种不同的途径。

One is understanding disease processes and healthy processes.

一是了解疾病过程和健康过程。

We'll lump those together.

我们将把它们放在一起。

Then there's hardware-- so microscopes, lenses, digital deconvolution, ways of seeing things in bolder relief and more precision.

然后是硬件——显微镜、镜头、数字反卷积、更大胆、更精确地观察事物的方式。

And then there's how to manage all the data.

然后是如何管理所有数据。

And then I love the idea that maybe AI could do what human brains can't do alone, like manage understanding of the data because it's one thing to organize data.

然后我喜欢这样的想法：也许人工智能可以做人类大脑无法单独完成的事情，比如管理对数据的理解，因为组织数据是一回事。

It's another to say, oh, this as you point out in the analogy with code, that this particular gene and that particular gene are potentially interesting, whereas a human being would never make that potential connection.

另一种说法是，哦，正如您在与代码的类比中指出的那样，这个特定的基因和那个特定的基因可能是有趣的，而人类永远不会建立这种潜在的联系。

Our first neuroscience RFA was aimed towards incentivizing people from different backgrounds-- immunologists, microbiologists-- to come and look at how our nervous system works and how to keep it healthy.

我们的第一个神经科学 RFA 旨在激励来自不同背景的人们（免疫学家、微生物学家）来研究我们的神经系统如何工作以及如何保持其健康。

Or we ask that our grantees participate in the pre-print movement to accelerate the rate of sharing knowledge and actually others being able to build upon science.

或者我们要求我们的受资助者参与预印本运动，以加快知识共享的速度，并让其他人能够在科学的基础上进一步发展。

So that's the funding that we do.

这就是我们所做的资金。

In terms of building, we build software and hardware, like you mentioned.

在构建方面，我们构建软件和硬件，就像您提到的那样。

We put together teams that can build tools that are more durable and scalable than someone in a single lab might be incentivized to do.

我们组建的团队可以构建比单个实验室中的人员更耐用和可扩展的工具。

There's a ton of great ideas.

有很多很棒的想法。

And nowadays, most scientists can tinker and build something useful for their lab.

如今，大多数科学家都可以修补和构建对他们的实验室有用的东西。

But it's really hard for them to be able to share that tool sometimes beyond their own laptop or forget the next Lab over or across the globe.

但对他们来说，有时很难在自己的笔记本电脑之外共享该工具，或者忘记全球范围内的下一个实验室。

So we partner with scientists to see what is useful, what kinds of tools.

因此，我们与科学家合作，看看什么是有用的，什么类型的工具。

In imaging, Napari, it's a useful image annotation tool that is born from an open source community.

在成像领域，Napari 是一款有用的图像注释工具，诞生于开源社区。

And how can we contribute to that?

我们如何为此做出贡献？

Or a CELLxGENE, which works on single cell data sets.

或者是 CELLxGENE，它适用于单细胞数据集。

And how can we make it build a useful tool so that scientists can share data sets, analyze their own and contribute to a larger corpus of information?

我们如何才能让它构建一个有用的工具，以便科学家可以共享数据集、分析自己的数据集并为更大的信息库做出贡献？

So we have software teams that are building, collaborating with scientists to make sure that we're building easy to use, durable, translatable tools across the scientific community in the areas that we work in.

因此，我们的软件团队正在与科学家合作，以确保我们在我们工作领域的整个科学界构建易于使用、耐用、可翻译的工具。

We also have institutes-- this is where the imaging work comes in-- where we are proud owners of an electron microscope right now.

我们也有研究所——这就是成像工作的所在——我们现在自豪地拥有电子显微镜。

It's going to be installed at our imaging institute.

它将安装在我们的成像研究所。

And that will really contribute to the way where we can see work differently.

这确实有助于我们以不同的方式看待工作。

But more hardware does need to be developed.

但确实需要开发更多的硬件。

We're partnering with the fantastic scientists in the biohub network to build a mini-phase plate to increase to align the electrons through the electron microscope to be able to increase the resolution, so we can see in sharper detail.

我们正在与 Biohub 网络中出色的科学家合作，构建一个迷你相位板，以通过电子显微镜增强电子排列，从而提高分辨率，这样我们就可以看到更清晰的细节。

So there's a lot of innovative work within the network that's happening.

因此，网络内正在发生许多创新工作。

And these institutes have grand challenges that they're working on.

这些机构正在应对巨大的挑战。

Back to your question about cells, cells are just the smallest unit that are alive.

回到你关于细胞的问题，细胞只是生命的最小单位。

And your body, all of our bodies, have many, many, many cells.

你的身体，我们所有的身体，都有很多很多细胞。

Some estimate of like 37 trillion cells, different cells in your body.

据估计，您体内有 37 万亿个不同的细胞。

And what are they all doing?

他们都在做什么？

And what do they look like when you're healthy?

当你健康时，它们会是什么样子？

What do they look like when you're sick?

当你生病时，他们会是什么样子？

And where we're at right now with our understanding of cells and what happens when you get sick is basically we've gotten pretty good at, from the Human Genome Project, looking at how different mutations in your genetic code lead for you to be more susceptible to get sick or directly cause you to get sick.

我们现在对细胞以及生病时会发生什么的了解基本上是我们在人类基因组计划中非常擅长的，研究遗传密码中的不同突变如何导致您更容易生病或直接导致您生病。

So we go from a mutation in your DNA to, wow, you now have Huntington's disease, for instance.

例如，我们从 DNA 突变变成，哇，你现在患有亨廷顿氏舞蹈症。

And there's a lot that happens in the middle.

中间发生了很多事情。

And that's one of the questions that we're going after at CZI, is what actually happens.

这就是我们 CZI 正在研究的问题之一，那就是实际发生的情况。

So an analogy that I like to use to share with my friends is, right now, say we have a recipe for a cake.

因此，我现在喜欢与朋友分享的一个类比是，假设我们有一个蛋糕的食谱。

We know there's a typo in the recipe.

我们知道食谱中有错字。

And then the cake is awful.

然后蛋糕就很糟糕了。

That's all we know.

这就是我们所知道的。

We don't know how the chef interprets the typo.

我们不知道厨师如何解释这个拼写错误。

We don't know what happens in the oven.

我们不知道烤箱里会发生什么。

And we don't actually know how it's exactly connected to how the cake didn't turn out or how you had expected it.

我们实际上并不知道它与蛋糕的失败或你的预期如何完全相关。

A lot of that is unknown.

其中很多都是未知的。

But we can actually systematically try to break this down.

但我们实际上可以系统地尝试打破这个问题。

And one segment of that journey that we're looking at is how that mutation gets translated and acted upon in your cells.

我们正在研究的这一旅程的一部分是突变如何在细胞中翻译并发挥作用。

And all of your cells have what's called mRNA.

你所有的细胞都含有所谓的 mRNA。

mRNA are the actual instructions that are taken from the DNA.

mRNA 是从 DNA 中获取的实际指令。

And our work in Single-Cell is looking at how every cell in your body is actually interpreting your DNA slightly differently and what happens when healthy cells are interpreting the DNA instructions and when sick cells are interpreting those directions.

我们在单细胞方面的工作是研究你体内的每个细胞实际上如何稍微不同地解释你的 DNA，以及当健康细胞解释 DNA 指令和当患病细胞解释这些方向时会发生什么。

And that is a ton of data.

这是大量的数据。

I just told you, there's 37 trillion cells.

我刚才告诉过你，有37万亿个细胞。

There's different large sets of mRNA in each cell.

每个细胞中都有不同的大组 mRNA。

But the work that we've been funding is looking at how-- first of all, gathering that information.

但我们一直资助的工作首先是研究如何收集这些信息。

We've been incredibly lucky to be part of a very fast-moving field where we've gone from, in 2017, funding some methods work to now having really not complete, but nearly complete atlases of how the human body works, how flies work, how mice work at the single-cell level and being able to then try to piece together how does that all come together when you're healthy and when you're sick.

我们非常幸运能够成为一个快速发展的领域的一部分，从 2017 年资助一些方法工作到现在，我们已经有了真正不完整但几乎完整的图谱，展示了人体如何工作、苍蝇如何工作、小鼠如何在单细胞水平上工作，然后能够尝试拼凑出当你健康和生病时，所有这些是如何结合在一起的。

And the neat thing about the inflection point where we're at in AI is that I can't look at this data and make sense of it.

我们所处的人工智能拐点的妙处在于，我无法查看这些数据并理解它。

There's just too much of it.

实在是太多了。

And biology is complex.

生物学是复杂的。

Human bodies are complex.

人体是复杂的。

We need this much information.

我们需要这么多信息。

But the use of large language models can help us actually look at that data and gain insights, look at what trends are consistent with health and what trends are unsuspected.

但使用大型语言模型可以帮助我们实际查看这些数据并获得见解，看看哪些趋势与健康相符，哪些趋势是不可预测的。

And eventually, our hope, through the use of these data sets that we've helped curate and the application of large language models, is to be able to formulate a virtual cell, a cell that's completely built off of the data sets of what we know about the human body, but allows us to manipulate, and learn faster and try new things to help move science and then medicine along.

最终，我们希望通过使用我们帮助管理的这些数据集和大型语言模型的应用，能够构建一个虚拟细胞，一个完全基于我们所了解的人体数据集构建的细胞，但允许我们更快地操作、学习和尝试新事物，以帮助推动科学和医学的发展。

So now, you've got 18 types.

现在，您有 18 种类型。

Each one is going to express many, many different genes and mRNAs.

每一种基因都会表达很多很多不同的基因和 mRNA。

And perhaps one of them is responsible for what we see in advanced type 2 diabetes, or in other forms of obesity, or where people can't lay down fat cells, which turns out to be just as detrimental in those extreme cases.

也许其中之一就是我们在晚期 2 型糖尿病、其他形式的肥胖症或人们无法沉积脂肪细胞的情况下所看到的情况的原因，事实证明，在这些极端情况下，这同样是有害的。

So now, you've got all these lists of genes.

现在，您已经获得了所有这些基因列表。

But I always thought of single cell sequencing as necessary, but not sufficient, right?

但我一直认为单细胞测序是必要的，但还不够，对吗？

You need the information, but it doesn't resolve the problem.

您需要这些信息，但这并不能解决问题。

And I think of it more as a hypothesis-generating experiment.

我认为它更像是一个假设生成实验。

OK, so you have all these genes.

好的，所以你拥有所有这些基因。

And you can say, well, this gene is particularly elevated in the diabetic cell type of, let's say, one of these fat cells or muscle cells for that matter, whereas it's not in non-diabetics.

你可以说，这个基因在糖尿病细胞类型中特别升高，比如说，这些脂肪细胞或肌肉细胞之一，而在非糖尿病细胞中则不然。

So then of the millions of different cells, maybe only five of them differ dramatically.

因此，在数百万个不同的细胞中，也许只有五个细胞存在显着差异。

So then you generate a hypothesis.

然后你就产生了一个假设。

Oh, it's the ones that differ dramatically that are important.

哦，重要的是那些截然不同的东西。

But maybe one of those genes, when it's only 50% changed, has a huge effect because of some network biology effect.

但也许这些基因之一，当它只发生了 50% 的变化时，由于某种网络生物学效应而产生了巨大的影响。

And so I guess what I'm trying to get to here is how does one meet that challenge.

所以我想我在这里想要探讨的是如何应对这一挑战。

And can AI help resolve that challenge by essentially placing those lists of genes into 10,000 hypotheses?

人工智能能否通过将这些基因列表放入 10,000 个假设中来帮助解决这一挑战？

Because I'll tell you that the graduate students and postdocs in my lab get a chance to test one hypothesis at a time.

因为我会告诉你，我实验室的研究生和博士后有机会一次检验一个假设。

And we actually have built a tool at CZI called CELLxGENE, where you can put in the mutation that you're interested in.

实际上，我们在 CZI 构建了一个名为 CELLxGENE 的工具，您可以在其中放入您感兴趣的突变。

And it gives you a heat map of cross cell types of which cell types are expressing the gene that you're interested in.

它为您提供了跨细胞类型的热图，其中哪些细胞类型表达您感兴趣的基因。

And so then you can start looking at, OK, if I look at gene X and I know it's related to heart disease-- but if you look at the heat map, it's also spiking in the pancreas.

然后你就可以开始观察，好吧，如果我观察 X 基因，我知道它与心脏病有关，但如果你观察热图，它也会在胰腺中出现峰值。

That allows you to generate a hypothesis.

这可以让你产生一个假设。

Why?

为什么？

And what happens when this gene is mutated and the function of your pancreas?

当这个基因发生突变时，你的胰腺功能会发生什么变化？

Really exciting way to look and ask questions differently.

以不同的方式看待和提出问题真是令人兴奋。

And you can also imagine a world where if you're trying to develop a therapy, a drug, and the goal is to treat the function in the heart, but you know that it's also really active in the pancreas again.

你也可以想象一个世界，如果你试图开发一种疗法、一种药物，目标是治疗心脏功能，但你知道它在胰腺中也再次非常活跃。

So is there going to be an unexpected side effect that you should think about as you're bringing this drug to clinical trials?

那么，当您将该药物用于临床试验时，是否会出现意想不到的副作用？

So it's an incredibly exciting tool and one that's only going to get better as we get more and more sophisticated ways to analyze the data.

因此，这是一个令人难以置信的令人兴奋的工具，并且随着我们获得越来越复杂的数据分析方法，它只会变得更好。

What you just said also bridges the divide between single cells, organs and systems, right?

你刚才说的也弥合了单细胞、器官和系统之间的鸿沟，对吗？

Because ultimately, cells make up organs.

因为最终，细胞构成了器官。

Organs make up systems.

器官组成系统。

And they're all talking to one another.

他们都在互相交谈。

And everyone nowadays is familiar with gut-brain axis or the microbiome being so important.

如今每个人都熟悉肠脑轴或微生物组的重要性。

But rarely is the discussion between organs discussed, so to speak.

但可以说，机关之间的讨论很少被讨论。

So I think it's wonderful.

所以我认为这很棒。

So that tool was generated by CZI.

所以该工具是由 CZI 生成的。

Or CCI funded that tool?

或者 CCI 资助了该工具？

Now, I, like most everybody try to get optimal nutrition from whole foods, ideally mostly from minimally processed or non processed foods.

现在，我和大多数人一样尝试从天然食品中获取最佳营养，最好是从最低限度加工或未加工的食品中获取最佳营养。

However, one of the challenges that I and so many other people face is getting enough servings of high quality fruits and vegetables per day, as well as fiber and probiotics that often accompany those fruits and vegetables.

然而，我和其他许多人面临的挑战之一是每天获取足够的优质水果和蔬菜，以及通常伴随这些水果和蔬菜的纤维和益生菌。

That's why, way back in 2012, long before I ever had a podcast, I started drinking AG1.

这就是为什么早在 2012 年，早在我有播客之前，我就开始喝 AG1。

And so I'm delighted that AG1 is sponsoring the Huberman Lab podcast.

因此，我很高兴 AG1 赞助 Huberman Lab 播客。

The reason I started taking AG1 and the reason I still drink AG1 once or twice a day is that it provides all of my foundational nutritional needs.

我开始服用 AG1 的原因以及我仍然每天喝一到两次 AG1 的原因是它可以满足我所有的基本营养需求。

That is, it provides insurance that I get the proper amounts of those vitamins, minerals, probiotics and fiber to ensure optimal mental health, physical health and performance.

也就是说，它可以保证我获得适量的维生素、矿物质、益生菌和纤维，以确保最佳的心理健康、身体健康和表现。

If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.

如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。

They're giving away five free travel packs plus a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2.

他们赠送五个免费旅行包以及一年的维生素 D3 K2。

Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman to claim that special offer.

再次强调，您可以通过 Drinkag1.com/huberman 领取特别优惠。

So from all the work that we've done and funded on the Human Cell Atlas, there is a large corpus of data that you can now train a kind of large-scale model on.

因此，从我们在人类细胞图谱上所做和资助的所有工作来看，有一个庞大的数据集，您现在可以在其上训练一种大型模型。

And one of the things that we're doing at CZI, which I think is pretty exciting, is building what we think is one of the largest non-profit life sciences AI clusters.

我们在 CZI 正在做的事情之一，我认为非常令人兴奋，就是建立我们认为最大的非营利生命科学人工智能集群之一。

It's on the order of 1,000 GPUs.

大约有 1,000 个 GPU。

And it's larger than what most people have access to in academia that you can do serious engineering work on.

它比大多数人在学术界所能接触到的东西要大，你可以在上面进行严肃的工程工作。

And by basically training a model with all of the Human Cell Atlas Data and a bunch of other inputs as well, we think you'll be able to basically imagine all of the different types of cells and all the different states that they can be in, and when they're healthy and diseased, and how they'll interact with different-- interact with each other, interact with different potential drugs.

通过使用所有人类细胞图谱数据和一堆其他输入来基本上训练一个模型，我们认为您将能够基本上想象所有不同类型的细胞和它们可能处于的所有不同状态，以及它们何时健康和患病，以及它们如何与不同的相互作用——彼此相互作用，与不同的潜在药物相互作用。

But I think the state of LLMs, I think this is where it's helpful to understand-- have a good understanding and be grounded in the modern state of AI.

但我认为法学硕士的现状，我认为这是有助于理解的地方——有一个良好的理解并扎根于人工智能的现代状态。

I mean, these things are not foolproof.

我的意思是，这些事情并不是万无一失的。

I mean, one of the flaws of modern LLMs is they hallucinate.

我的意思是，现代法学硕士的缺陷之一是他们产生幻觉。

So the question is, how do you make it so that that can be an advantage rather than a disadvantage?

所以问题是，如何才能使它成为优势而不是劣势？

And I think the way that it ends up being an advantage is when they help you imagine a bunch of states that someone could be in, but then you, as the scientist or engineer, go and validate that those are true, whether they're solutions to how a protein can be folded or possible states that a cell could be in when it's interacting with other things.

我认为它最终成为优势的方式是，当他们帮助你想象某人可能处于的一系列状态，然后你作为科学家或工程师去验证这些状态是否正确，无论它们是蛋白质如何折叠的解决方案，还是细胞在与其他事物相互作用时可能处于的状态。

But we're not yet at the state with AI that you can just take the outputs of these things as gospel and run from there.

但我们还没有达到人工智能的状态，你可以把这些东西的输出当作福音并从那里逃跑。

But they are very good, I think as you said, hypothesis generators or possible solution generators that then you can go validate.

但我认为正如你所说，它们非常好，假设生成器或可能的解决方案生成器，然后你可以去验证。

So I think that that's a very powerful thing that we can basically-- building on the first five years of science work around the Human Cell Atlas and all the data that's been built out-- carry that forward into something that I think is going to be a very novel tool going forward.

所以我认为这是一件非常强大的事情，我们基本上可以——以人类细胞图谱周围的前五年科学工作和所有已建立的数据为基础——将其发展成我认为未来将成为一个非常新颖的工具。

And that's the type of thing that I think we're set up to do well.

我认为这就是我们准备做得很好的事情。

I mean, you had this exchange a little while back about funding levels and how CZI is just a drop in the bucket compared to NIH.

我的意思是，你们不久前就资金水平以及 CZI 与 NIH 相比只是九牛一毛的问题进行了交流。

The thing that I think we can do that's different is funding some of these longer term, bigger projects.

我认为我们可以做的不同的事情是资助一些长期的、更大的项目。

It is hard to galvanize the and pull together the energy to do that.

激发并聚集能量来做到这一点是很困难的。

And it's a lot of what most science funding is, relatively small projects that are exploring things over relatively short time horizons.

大多数科学资助都是相对较小的项目，在相对较短的时间内探索事物。

And one of the things that we try to do is build these tools over 5, 10, 15-year periods.

我们尝试做的事情之一是在 5 年、10 年、15 年的时间内构建这些工具。

They're often projects that require hundreds of millions of dollars of funding and world-class engineering teams and infrastructure to do.

它们通常需要数亿美元的资金以及世界一流的工程团队和基础设施才能完成。

And that, I think, is a pretty cool contribution to the field that I think is-- there aren't as many other folks who are doing that kind of thing.

我认为，这是对该领域的一个非常酷的贡献——没有那么多人在做这类事情。

But that's one of the reasons why I'm personally excited about the virtual cell stuff because it just this perfect intersection of all the stuff that we've done in single cell, the previous collaborations that we've done with the field and bringing together the industry and AI expertise around this.

但这就是我个人对虚拟细胞感到兴奋的原因之一，因为它是我们在单细胞中所做的所有事情、我们之前与该领域所做的合作以及围绕此将行业和人工智能专业知识结合在一起的完美交集。

And it's wonderful, on the one hand, because it allows for that image we have of a scientist tinkering away or the people in their lab, and then the eurekas.

一方面，这很美妙，因为它让我们能够想象出一位科学家正在修修补补，或者他们实验室里的人们，然后是尤里卡。

And that hopefully translates to better human health.

这有望转化为更好的人类健康。

But I think, in my opinion, we've moved past that model as the most effective model or the only model that should be explored.

但我认为，在我看来，我们已经超越了该模型，将其作为最有效的模型或唯一应该探索的模型。

And the idea was the tinkerer in the garage, the inventor.

这个想法是车库里的修补匠，发明家。

And then people often forget that to implement all the technologies they discovered took enormous factories and warehouses.

然后人们常常忘记，要实施他们发现的所有技术需要巨大的工厂和仓库。

So there's a similarity there to Facebook, Meta, et cetera.

所以这与 Facebook、Meta 等有相似之处。

But I think, in science, we imagine that the scientists alone in their laboratory and those eureka moments.

但我认为，在科学中，我们想象科学家们独自在他们的实验室里，以及那些灵光一现的时刻。

But I think, nowadays, the big questions really require extensive collaboration and certainly tool development.

但我认为，如今，重大问题确实需要广泛的协作，当然还需要工具开发。

And one of the tools that you keep coming back to is these LLMs, these large language models.

你不断回来使用的工具之一就是这些法学硕士，这些大型语言模型。

And maybe you could just elaborate, for those that aren't familiar.

也许您可以为那些不熟悉的人详细说明。

What is a large language model?

什么是大语言模型？

For the uninformed, what is it?

对于不知情的人来说，这是什么？

And what does it allow us to do that different, other types of AI don't allow?

它能让我们做哪些其他类型的人工智能不允许做的事情？

Or more importantly, perhaps what does it allow us to do that a bunch of really smart people, highly informed in a given area of science, staring at the data-- what can it do that they can't do?

或者更重要的是，也许它能让我们做些什么，一群真正聪明的人，在特定科学领域知识渊博，盯着数据——它能做什么而他们不能做？

And it was this huge breakthrough because before then there was somewhat of a cap where if you fed more data into a Neural Network past some point, it didn't really glean more insights from it, whereas transformers just-- we haven't seen the end of how big that can scale to yet.

这是一个巨大的突破，因为在此之前存在一定的上限，如果你在某个时刻向神经网络输入更多的数据，它并没有真正从中收集到更多的见解，而 Transformer 只是——我们还没有看到它可以扩展到多大的极限。

I mean, I think that there's a chance that we run into some ceiling.

我的意思是，我认为我们有可能遇到一些上限。

Or is there some kind of fundamental limit to this architecture that we just haven't reached yet?

或者这个架构是否存在某种我们尚未达到的基本限制？

And once we get a little bit further in building them out, then we'll reach that.

一旦我们进一步构建它们，我们就会实现这一目标。

And then we'll need a few more leaps before we get to the level of AI that I think will unlock a ton of really futuristic and amazing things.

然后，在我们达到人工智能的水平之前，我们还需要一些飞跃，我认为人工智能将解锁大量真正的未来主义和令人惊奇的事物。

But there's no doubt that even just being able to process the amount of data that we can now with this model architecture has unlocked a lot of new use cases.

但毫无疑问，即使我们现在能够使用这种模型架构处理大量数据，也已经解锁了许多新的用例。

And the reason why they're called large language models is because one of the first uses of them is people basically feed in all of the language from, basically, the world wide web.

它们之所以被称为大型语言模型，是因为它们的最初用途之一是人们基本上从万维网获取所有语言。

And you can think about them as basically prediction machines.

你可以将它们视为基本上的预测机器。

You put in a prompt.

你输入一个提示。

And it can basically predict a version of what should come next.

它基本上可以预测接下来会发生什么的版本。

So you type in a headline for a news story.

因此，您输入新闻报道的标题。

And it can predict what it thinks the story should be.

它可以预测它认为的故事应该是什么。

Or you could train it so that it could be a chat, bot where, OK, if you're prompted with this question, you, can get this response.

或者你可以训练它，使它成为一个聊天机器人，好吧，如果系统提示你这个问题，你可以得到这个答复。

But one of the interesting things is it turns out that there's actually nothing specific to using human language in it.

但有趣的事情之一是，事实证明其中实际上没有任何特定于使用人类语言的内容。

So if instead of feeding it human language, if you use that model architecture for a network and instead you feed it all of the Human Cell Atlas Data, then if you prompt it with a state of a cell, it can spit out different versions of how that cell can interact or different states that the cell could be in next when it interacts with different things.

因此，如果您不向其提供人类语言，而是使用该网络模型架构，而是向其提供所有人类细胞图谱数据，那么如果您用细胞状态提示它，它可以吐出该细胞如何相互作用的不同版本，或者细胞在与不同事物相互作用时可能处于的不同状态。

And then let's say you teach it about something in English, but then you also give it a bunch of examples of people speaking Italian.

然后假设你用英语教它一些东西，但你也给了它一堆人们说意大利语的例子。

It'll actually be able to explain the thing that it learned in English in Italian.

它实际上能够用意大利语解释用英语学到的东西。

So the crossover and just the pattern recognition is the thing that is pretty profound and powerful about this.

因此，交叉和模式识别是非常深刻和强大的。

But it really does apply to a lot of different things.

但它确实适用于很多不同的事情。

Another example in the scientific community has been the work that AlphaFold, basically the folks at DeepMind, have done on protein folding.

科学界的另一个例子是 AlphaFold（基本上是 DeepMind 的人员）在蛋白质折叠方面所做的工作。

It's just basically a lot of the same model architecture.

它基本上只是很多相同的模型架构。

But instead of language, there they fold they fed in all of these protein data.

但他们输入的不是语言，而是所有这些蛋白质数据。

And you can give it a state.

你可以给它一个状态。

And it can spit out solutions to how those proteins get folded.

它可以给出这些蛋白质如何折叠的解决方案。

So it's very powerful.

所以它非常强大。

I don't think we know yet, as an industry, what the natural limits of it are.

我认为我们还不知道作为一个行业，它的自然限制是什么。

I think that that's one of the things that's pretty exciting about the current state.

我认为这是当前状态中非常令人兴奋的事情之一。

But it's certainly allows you to solve problems that just weren't solved with the generation of machine learning that came before it.

但它确实可以让你解决前一代机器学习无法解决的问题。

One thing that's funny in basic science is we've basically cured every single disease in mice.

基础科学中有趣的一件事是我们基本上治愈了小鼠的每一种疾病。

We know what's going on when they have a number of diseases because they're used as a model organism.

我们知道当它们患有多种疾病时会发生什么，因为它们被用作模式生物。

But they are not humans.

但他们不是人类。

And a lot of times, that research is relevant, but not directly one-to-one translatable to humans.

很多时候，这些研究是相关的，但不能直接一对一地转化为人类。

So you just have to be really careful about making sure that it actually works for humans.

所以你必须非常小心，确保它确实对人类有效。

So I know that the initial CZI Biohub, gratefully, included Stanford.

所以我知道，谢天谢地，最初的 CZI Biohub 就包括斯坦福大学。

We'll put that first in the list, but also UCSF, forgive me.

我们会把它放在列表的第一位，还有 UCSF，请原谅我。

I have many friends at UCSF and also Berkeley.

我在加州大学旧金山分校和伯克利分校有很多朋友。

But there are now some additional institutions involved.

但现在还有一些其他机构参与其中。

So maybe you could talk about that, and what motivated the decision to branch outside the Bay Area and why you selected those particular additional institutions to be included.

所以也许你可以谈谈这一点，是什么促使你决定在湾区以外设立分支机构，以及为什么你选择将这些特定的额外机构纳入其中。

We just put that request for proposal out there with our San Francisco Biohub as an example, where they've done incredible work in single cell biology and infectious disease.

我们只是以我们的旧金山生物中心为例提出了提案请求，他们在单细胞生物学和传染病方面做了令人难以置信的工作。

And we got-- I want to say-- like 57 proposals from over 150 institutions.

我想说的是，我们收到了来自 150 多个机构的 57 份提案。

A lot of ideas came together.

很多想法汇集在一起​​。

And we were so, so excited that we've been able to launch Chicago and New York.

我们非常非常兴奋能够推出芝加哥和纽约。

Chicago is a collaboration between UIUC, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, and University of Chicago and Northwestern.

芝加哥大学是伊利诺伊大学香槟分校、伊利诺伊大学厄巴纳-香槟分校、芝加哥大学和西北大学之间的合作项目。

Obviously, these universities are multifaceted.

显然，这些大学是多方面的。

But if I were to describe them by their stereotypical strength, Northwestern has an incredible medical system and hospital system.

但如果我用他们刻板的实力来形容他们，西北大学拥有令人难以置信的医疗系统和医院系统。

University of Chicago brings to the table incredible basic science strengths.

芝加哥大学拥有令人难以置信的基础科学优势。

University of Illinois is a computing powerhouse.

伊利诺伊大学是计算强国。

And so they came together and proposed that they were going to start thinking about cells in tissue, so one of the layers that you just alluded to.

因此，他们聚集在一起，提议他们将开始考虑组织中的细胞，即您刚才提到的一层。

So how do the cells that we know behave and act differently when they come together as a tissue?

那么，当我们所知道的细胞作为组织聚集在一起时，它们的行为和行为有何不同？

And one of the first tissues that they're starting with is skin.

他们首先使用的组织之一是皮肤。

So they've already been able to, as a collaboration under the leadership, of Shana Kelly design engineered skin tissue.

因此，他们已经能够在 Shana Kelly 的领导下合作设计工程皮肤组织。

The architecture looks the same as what's in you and I.

该架构看起来与你我的架构相同。

And what they've done is built these super, super thin sensors.

他们所做的就是建造这些超超薄的传感器。

And they embed these sensors throughout the layers of this engineered tissue.

他们将这些传感器嵌入到这种工程组织的各个层中。

And they read out the data.

他们读出了数据。

They want to see what these cells are secreting, how these cells talk to each other and what happens when these cells get inflamed.

他们想看看这些细胞正在分泌什么，这些细胞如何相互交谈，以及当这些细胞发炎时会发生什么。

Inflammation is an incredibly important process that drives 50% of all deaths.

炎症是一个极其重要的过程，50% 的死亡都是由炎症引起的。

And so this is another disease-agnostic approach.

所以这是另一种与疾病无关的方法。

We want to understand inflammation.

我们想了解炎症。

And they're going to get a ton of information out from these sensors that tell you what happens when something goes awry because right now we can say, when you have an allergic reaction, your skin gets red and puffy.

他们将从这些传感器中获取大量信息，告诉您出现问题时会发生什么，因为现在我们可以说，当您出现过敏反应时，您的皮肤会变红和浮肿。

But what is the earliest signal of that?

但最早的信号是什么？

And these sensors can look at the behaviors of these cells over time.

这些传感器可以观察这些细胞随时间的行为。

And then you can apply a large language model to look at the earliest statistically significant changes that can allow you to intervene as early as possible.

然后，您可以应用大型语言模型来查看最早的统计显着变化，以便您尽早进行干预。

So that's what Chicago's doing.

这就是芝加哥正在做的事情。

They're starting in the skin cells.

它们从皮肤细胞开始。

They're also looking at the neuromuscular junction, which is the connection between where a neuron attaches to a muscle and tells the muscle how to behave-- super important in things like ALS, but also in aging.

他们还在研究神经肌肉接头，它是神经元附着在肌肉上并告诉肌肉如何行为之间的联系——这对于 ALS 等疾病非常重要，而且对于衰老也很重要。

The slowed transmission of information across that neuromuscular junction is what causes old people to fall.

神经肌肉接头信息传输减慢是导致老年人跌倒的原因。

Their brain cannot trigger their muscles to react fast enough.

他们的大脑无法触发肌肉做出足够快的反应。

And so we want to be able to embed these sensors to understand how these different, interconnected systems within our bodies work together.

因此，我们希望能够嵌入这些传感器，以了解我们体内这些不同的、相互关联的系统如何协同工作。

In New York, they're doing a related, but equally exciting project where they're engineering individual cells to be able to go in and identify changes in a human body.

在纽约，他们正在进行一个相关但同样令人兴奋的项目，他们正在设计单个细胞，使其能够进入并识别人体的变化。

So what they'll do is-- they're calling it--

所以他们要做的是——他们称之为——

So you can engineer an immune cell to go in your body and look inside your coronary arteries and say, are these arteries healthy?

因此，你可以设计一种免疫细胞进入你的体内，观察你的冠状动脉内部，然后问，这些动脉是否健康？

Or are there plaques?

或者有牌匾吗？

Because plaques lead to blockage, which lead to heart attacks.

因为斑块会导致堵塞，从而导致心脏病发作。

And the cell can then record that information and report it back out.

然后细胞可以记录该信息并将其报告回来。

That's the first half of what the New York Biohub is going to do.

这是纽约生物中心要做的前半部分。

But it's both mind blowing and it feels like sci-fi.

但这既令人兴奋又感觉像科幻小说。

But science is actually in a place where if you really push a group of incredibly qualified scientists say, could you do this if given the chance, the answer is like probably.

但科学实际上处于一个这样的境地：如果你真的推动一群非常有资格的科学家说，如果有机会你能做到这一点，答案是可能的。

Give us enough time, the bright team and resources.

给我们足够的时间、聪明的团队和资源。

It's doable.

这是可行的。

I mean, it's a very interesting decision to do this in the context of an existing framework of graduate students that need to do their thesis and get a first author paper because there's a whole set of structures within academia that I think both facilitate, but also limit the progression of science.

我的意思是，在需要完成论文并获得第一作者论文的研究生现有框架的背景下，这是一个非常有趣的决定，因为学术界有一整套结构，我认为它们既促进又限制了科学的进步。

That independent investigator model that we talked about a little bit earlier, it's so core to the way science has been done.

我们之前谈到的独立研究者模型是科学研究方式的核心。

This is very different and frankly sounds far more efficient, if I'm to be completely honest.

如果我完全诚实的话，这是非常不同的，坦率地说听起来更有效率。

And we'll see if I renew my NIH funding after saying that.

我们会看看我说完之后是否会更新我的国家卫生研究院资助。

But I think we all want the same thing.

但我认为我们都想要同样的东西。

As scientists and as humans, we want to understand the way we work.

作为科学家和人类，我们希望了解我们的工作方式。

And we want healthy people to persist to be healthy.

我们希望健康的人能够坚持健康。

And we want sick people to get healthy.

我们希望病人能够康复。

I mean, that's really ultimately the goal.

我的意思是，这确实是最终目标。

It's not super complicated.

这并不是超级复杂。

It's just hard to do.

只是很难做到。

And it's not that the biohub model-- we don't think it's the best or only model.

这并不是生物中心模型——我们认为它不是最好的或唯一的模型。

But we found that it was a really interesting way to unlock a bunch of collaboration and bring some technical resources that allow for this longer term development.

但我们发现这是一种非常有趣的方式来解锁大量协作并带来一些技术资源以实现长期开发。

And it's not something that is widely being pursued across the rest of the field.

这并不是其他领域广泛追求的事情。

So we figured, OK, this is an interesting thing that we can help push on.

所以我们想，好吧，这是一件有趣的事情，我们可以帮助推动。

But I mean, yeah, we do believe in the collaboration.

但我的意思是，是的，我们确实相信合作。

But I also think that we come at this with-- we don't think that the way that we're pursuing this is the only way to do this or the way that everyone should do it.

但我也认为，我们不认为我们追求这一目标的方式是实现这一目标的唯一方法，也不是每个人都应该这样做的方式。

We're pretty aware of what is the rest of the ecosystem and how we can play a unique role in it.

我们非常清楚生态系统的其余部分是什么，以及我们如何在其中发挥独特的作用。

I mean, it's still one of the most deadliest of the cancers.

我的意思是，它仍然是最致命的癌症之一。

And there are others that you certainly wouldn't want to get.

还有其他一些您肯定不想得到的。

But that's among the ones you wouldn't want to get the most.

但这是您最不想得到的。

So you discover that.

所以你发现了这一点。

And then and the idea is that, OK, then AI reveals some potential drug targets that then bear out in vitro, in a dish and in a mouse model.

然后，我们的想法是，好吧，然后人工智能会揭示一些潜在的药物靶点，然后在体外、培养皿和小鼠模型中证实这些靶点。

How is the actual implementation to drug discovery?

药物发现的实际实施情况如何？

Or maybe this target is druggable, maybe it's not.

或者这个目标可能是可药物的，也可能不是。

Maybe it requires some other approach-- laser ablation approach or something.

也许它需要一些其他方法——激光烧蚀方法或其他方法。

We don't know.

我们不知道。

But ultimately, is CZI going to be involved in the implementation of new therapeutics?

但最终，CZI 是否会参与新疗法的实施？

Is that the idea?

是这个想法吗？

We have, through our Rare As One portfolio, funded patient advocates to create rare disease organizations where patients come together and actually pool their collective experience.

我们通过 Rare As One 投资组合资助患者倡导者创建罕见病组织，让患者聚集在一起，真正汇集他们的集体经验。

They build bioregistries, registries of their natural history.

他们建立了生物登记处，即自然历史登记处。

And they both partner with researchers to do the research about their disease and with drug developers to incentivize drug developers to focus on what they may need for their disease.

他们都与研究人员合作对他们的疾病进行研究，并与药物开发商合作，激励药物开发商专注于他们的疾病可能需要的药物。

And one thing that's important to point out is that rare diseases aren't rare.

需要指出的重要一点是，罕见疾病并不罕见。

There are over 7,000 rare diseases and collectively impact many, many individuals.

有 7,000 多种罕见疾病，共同影响着许许多多的人。

And I think the thing that's, from a basic science perspective, the incredibly fascinating thing about rare diseases is that they're actually windows to how the body normally should work.

我认为，从基础科学的角度来看，罕见疾病的令人难以置信的迷人之处在于，它们实际上是了解身体正常运作方式的窗口。

And so there are often mutations that when genes that when they're mutated cause very specific diseases, but that tell you how the normal biology works as well.

因此，经常会出现一些突变，当基因突变时，它们会导致非常特殊的疾病，但这也会告诉你正常的生物学是如何运作的。

And I think, for you, it's like being able to improve the lives of individuals, whether it's students at any of the schools that you've started or any of the stuff that we've supported through the education work, which isn't the goal here, or just being able to improve people's lives in that way I think is the thing that I've seen be super passionate about.

我认为，对你来说，这就像能够改善个人的生活，无论是你创办的任何一所学校的学生，还是我们通过教育工作支持的任何东西，这不是这里的目标，或者只是能够以这种方式改善人们的生活，我认为这是我所看到的超级热衷的事情。

I don't know.

我不知道。

Do you agree with that characterization?

您同意这种描述吗？

I'm trying I'm trying to--

我正在努力 我正在努力——

One, the future can be better than the present, in terms of treating disease, maybe even, you said, eliminating diseases, all diseases.

第一，未来可以比现在更好，在治疗疾病方面，甚至可能，你说，消除疾病，所有疾病。

I love that optimism.

我喜欢这种乐观。

And there's a tractable path to do it.

并且有一条容易处理的路径来做到这一点。

We're going to put literally money, and time, and energy, and people, and technology and AI behind that.

我们将投入金钱、时间、精力、人力、技术和人工智能来支持它。

And so I have to ask, was having children a significant modifier in terms of your view of the future?

所以我不得不问，生孩子对你对未来的看法有很大的影响吗？

Like wow, you hear all this doom and gloom.

就像哇，你听到所有这些厄运和阴郁。

What's the future going to be like for them?

他们的未来会怎样？

Did you sit back and think, what would it look like if there was a future with no diseases?

你是否坐下来想一想，如果未来没有疾病，那会是什么样子？

Is that the future, we want our children in?

这就是我们希望我们的孩子进入的未来吗？

I mean, I'm voting a big yes.

我的意思是，我投了赞成票。

So we're not we're not going to debate that at all.

所以我们不会，我们根本不会争论这个问题。

But was having children an inspiration for the CZI in some way?

但生孩子在某种程度上是 CZI 的灵感来源吗？

And so my grandparents, both sets of grandparents who knew each other, decided that there was a better future out there.

因此，我的祖父母，两对彼此认识的祖父母，认为那里有更好的未来。

And they were willing to take risks for it.

他们愿意为此承担风险。

But they were afraid of losing all of their kids.

但他们害怕失去所有的孩子。

My dad is one of six.

我的父亲是六个人之一。

My mom is one of 10.

我妈妈是这10人之一。

And so they decided that there was something out there in this bleak time.

所以他们决定在这个凄凉的时期里有一些东西。

And they paired up their kids, one from each family, and sent them out on these little boats before the internet, before cell phones, and just said, we'll see you on the other side.

他们将每个家庭的孩子配对，在没有互联网、没有手机之前将他们送上这些小船，然后说，我们会在另一边见。

Now, a major problem with a lot of blood tests out there, however, is that you get information back about metabolic factors, lipids, and hormones and so forth.

然而，现在大量血液检测的一个主要问题是，您无法获得有关代谢因素、血脂和激素等的信息。

But you don't know what to do with that information.

但您不知道如何处理这些信息。

With InsideTracker, they make it very easy because they have a personalized platform that allows you to see the levels of all those things-- metabolic factors, lipids, hormones, et cetera.

有了 InsideTracker，他们就让这一切变得非常容易，因为他们有一个个性化的平台，可以让你看到所有这些东西的水平——代谢因素、脂质、激素等等。

But it gives you specific directives that you can follow that relate to nutrition, behavioral modification, supplements, et cetera that can help you bring those numbers into the ranges that are optimal for you.

但它为您提供了可以遵循的与营养、行为改变、补充剂等相关的具体指示，可以帮助您将这些数字调整到最适合您的范围。

If you'd like to try InsideTracker, you can go to insidetracker.com/huberman to get 20% off any of InsideTracker's plans.

如果您想尝试 InsideTracker，您可以访问 insidetracker.com/huberman，享受任何 InsideTracker 计划 20% 的折扣。

Again, that's insidetracker.com/huberman.

同样，这是 insidetracker.com/huberman。

And now for my discussion with Mark Zuckerberg.

现在我与马克·扎克伯格进行讨论。

Slight shift of topic here-- you're extremely well-known for your role in technology development.

这里稍微转移一下话题——您因在技术开发中的角色而闻名。

But by virtue of your personal interests and also where Meta technology interfaces with mental health and physical health, you're starting to become synonymous with health, whether you realize it or not.

但凭借您的个人兴趣以及元技术与心理健康和身体健康的结合，无论您是否意识到，您都开始成为健康的代名词。

Part of that is because there's posts, footage of you rolling jiu jitsu.

部分原因是因为有一些帖子和你打柔术的镜头。

You won a jiu jitsu competition recently.

您最近赢得了柔术比赛。

You're doing other forms of martial arts, water sports, including surfing, and on and on.

你正在做其他形式的武术、水上运动，包括冲浪等等。

So you're doing it yourself.

所以你自己做吧。

But maybe we could just start off with technology and get this issue out of the way first, which is that I think many people assume that technology, especially technology that involves a screen, excuse me, of any kind is going to be detrimental to our health.

但也许我们可以从技术开始，首先解决这个问题，我认为很多人认为技术，特别是涉及屏幕的技术，对不起，任何类型的技术都会对我们的健康有害。

But that doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

但情况并非一定如此。

So could you explain how you see technology meshing with, inhibiting, or maybe even promoting physical and mental health?

那么您能否解释一下您认为技术如何与身心健康相结合、抑制甚至促进身心健康？

And there's a lot of research that basically suggests that it's the relationships that we have and the friendships that bring the most happiness in our lives and, at some level, end up even correlating with living a longer and healthier life because that grounding that you have in community ends up being important for that.

有很多研究基本上表明，我们拥有的人际关系和友谊给我们的生活带来了最大的幸福，并且在某种程度上，最终甚至与更长寿、更健康的生活相关，因为你在社区中的基础对此至关重要。

So I think that aspect of social media, which is the ability to connect with people, to understand what's going on in people's lives, have empathy for them, communicate what's going on with your life, express that, that's generally positive.

所以我认为社交媒体的这一方面，即与人们联系、了解人们生活中发生的事情、对他们产生同理心、交流你的生活中发生的事情、表达这一点的能力，这通常是积极的。

There are ways that it can be negative, in terms of bad interactions, things like bullying, which we can talk about because there's a lot that we've done to basically make sure that people can be safe from that and give people tools and give kids the ability to have the right parental controls.

在某些方面，它可能是负面的，就不良互动而言，比如欺凌，我们可以谈论这些，因为我们已经做了很多工作，基本上确保人们可以免受欺凌，并为人们提供工具，让孩子有能力进行正确的家长控制。

Their parents can oversee that.

他们的父母可以监督这一点。

But that's the interacting with people side.

但这就是与人互动的一面。

There's another side of all of this, which I think of as just passive consumption, which, at its best, is entertainment.

这一切还有另一面，我认为这只是被动消费，最好的情况是娱乐。

And entertainment is an important human thing, too.

娱乐也是人类的一件重要事情。

But I don't think that that has quite the same association with the long-term well-being and health benefits as being able to help people connect with other people does.

但我认为这与长期福祉和健康益处的关系并不像能够帮助人们与他人建立联系一样。

And I think, at its worst, some of the stuff we see online-- I think, these days, a lot of the news is just so relentlessly negative that it's just hard to come away from an experience where looking at the news for half an hour and feel better about the world.

我认为，在最糟糕的情况下，我们在网上看到的一些内容——我认为，现在很多新闻都是如此无情的负面新闻，以至于很难摆脱看半个小时新闻并对世界感觉更好的经历。

So I think that there's a mix on this.

所以我认为这是一个混合的问题。

I think the more that social media is about connecting with people and the more that when you're consuming and using the media part of social media to learn about things that enrich you and can provide inspiration or education as opposed to things that just leave you with a more toxic feeling, that's the balance that we try to get right across our products.

我认为社交媒体越是与人建立联系，越是当你消费和使用社交媒体的媒体部分来了解那些可以丰富你、可以提供灵感或教育的东西，而不是那些只会让你产生更有害感觉的东西时，这就是我们试图在我们的产品中达到的平衡。

And I think we're pretty aligned with the community because, at the end of the day, I mean, people don't want to use a product and come away feeling bad.

我认为我们与社区非常一致，因为归根结底，我的意思是，人们不想使用产品并在离开时感觉很糟糕。

There's a lot that people talk about-- evaluate a lot of these products in terms of information and utility.

人们谈论了很多——从信息和实用性方面评估很多这些产品。

But I think it's as important, when you're designing a product, to think about what kind of feeling you're creating with the people who use it, whether that's an aesthetic sense when you're designing hardware, or just what do you make people feel.

但我认为同样重要的是，当你设计产品时，要考虑你为使用它的人创造了什么样的感觉，无论是设计硬件时的美感，还是只是让人们有什么感觉。

And generally, people don't want to feel bad, right?

一般来说，人们不想感觉不好，对吗？

That doesn't mean that we want to shelter people from bad things that are happening in the world.

这并不意味着我们要保护人们免受世界上正在发生的坏事的影响。

But I don't really think that-- it's not what people want for us to just be just showing all this super negative stuff all day long.

但我真的不这么认为——人们不希望我们整天展示所有这些超级负面的东西。

So we work hard on all these different problems-- making sure that we're helping connect people as best as possible, helping make sure that we give people good tools to block people who might be bullying them, or harass them, or especially for younger folks, anyone under the age of 16 defaults into an experience where their experience is private.

因此，我们努力解决所有这些不同的问题——确保我们尽可能地帮助人们建立联系，帮助确保我们为人们提供良好的工具来阻止可能欺负他们或骚扰他们的人，或者特别是对于年轻人来说，任何 16 岁以下的人都会默认获得私密的体验。

We have all these parental tools.

我们拥有所有这些家长工具。

So that way, parents can understand what their children are up to in a good balance.

这样，父母就可以很好地平衡地了解孩子在做什么。

And then on the other side, we try to give people tools to understand how they're spending their time.

另一方面，我们尝试为人们提供工具来了解他们如何度过时间。

We try to give people tools so that if you're a teen and you're stuck in some loop of just looking at one type of content, we'll nudge you and say, hey, you've been looking at content of this type for a while.

我们尝试为人们提供工具，这样，如果您是青少年，并且陷入了只查看一种类型内容的循环，我们会轻推您并说，嘿，您已经查看这种类型的内容有一段时间了。

How about something else?

还有其他的怎么样？

And here's a bunch of other examples.

这里还有很多其他例子。

So I think that there are things that you can do to push this in a positive direction.

所以我认为你可以采取一些措施来推动这一事情朝着积极的方向发展。

But I think it just starts with having a more nuanced view of this isn't all good or all bad.

但我认为这只是从更细致地看待这件事开始，这并不全是好或都是坏。

And the more that you can make it a positive thing, the better this will be for all the people who use our products.

你越能让它成为一件积极的事情，这对所有使用我们产品的人来说就越好。

I can think of experiences that are a little bit like highly processed food, where it tastes good at the time.

我能想到的体验有点像高度加工的食品，当时的味道很好。

It's highly engrossing.

这是非常引人入胜的。

But it it's not necessarily nutritious.

但它不一定有营养。

And you don't feel very good afterwards.

然后你感觉不太好。

So for me, that would be the little collage of default options to click on in Instagram.

所以对我来说，这就是 Instagram 中点击默认选项的小拼贴画。

Occasionally, I notice-- and this just reflects my failure, not Instagram's, that there are a lot of street fight things, like people beating people up on the street.

偶尔，我注意到——这只是反映了我的失败，而不是 Instagram 的失败，有很多街头斗殴的事情，比如人们在街上殴打别人。

And I have to say, these have a very strong gravitational pull.

我不得不说，它们具有非常强大的引力。

I'm not somebody that enjoys seeing violence, per se.

我本身并不是一个喜欢看到暴力的人。

But you know I find myself-- I'll click on one of these, like what happened?

但你知道我发现自己——我会点击其中一个，就像发生了什么一样？

And I'll see someone get hit.

我会看到有人被击中。

And there's a little melee on the street or something.

街上发生了一些混战什么的。

And those seem to be offered to me a lot lately.

最近似乎有很多人向我提供这些。

And again, this is my fault.

再说一遍，这是我的错。

It reflects my prior searching experience.

它反映了我之前的搜索经验。

But I noticed that it has a bit of a gravitational pull, where I didn't learn anything.

但我注意到它有一点引力，我没有学到任何东西。

It's not teaching me any useful street self-defense skills of any kind.

它没有教我任何有用的街头自卫技能。

And at the same time, I also really enjoy some of the cute animal stuff.

同时，我也很喜欢一些可爱的动物东西。

And so I get a lot of those also.

所以我也得到了很多这样的东西。

So there's this polarized collage that's offered to me that reflects my prior search behavior.

因此，我得到了这张两极分化的拼贴画，它反映了我之前的搜索行为。

You could argue that the cute animal stuff is just entertainment.

你可能会说可爱的动物只是娱乐而已。

But actually, it fills me with a feeling, in some cases, that truly delights me.

但实际上，在某些情况下，它让我充满了一种真正让我高兴的感觉。

I delight in animals.

我喜欢动物。

And we're not just talking about kittens.

我们谈论的不仅仅是小猫。

I mean, animals I've never seen before, interactions between animals I've never seen before that truly delight me.

我的意思是，我以前从未见过的动物，我以前从未见过的动物之间的互动真的让我很高兴。

They energize me in a positive way that when I leave Instagram, I do think I'm better off.

他们以积极的方式激励我，当我离开 Instagram 时，我确实认为自己过得更好。

So I'm grateful for the algorithm in that sense.

所以从这个意义上来说，我很感激这个算法。

But I guess, the direct question is, is the algorithm just reflective of what one has been looking at a lot prior to that moment where they log on?

但我想，直接的问题是，该算法是否只反映了人们在登录之前经常查看的内容？

Or is it also trying to do exactly what you described, which is trying to give people a good-feeling experience that leads to more good feelings?

或者它是否也在尝试做你所描述的事情，即试图给人们一种良好的感觉体验，从而带来更多的良好感觉？

So the naive version of this stuff, the 10-year-old version was like, oh, people seem to be clicking on this.

所以这个东西的幼稚版本，10 年前的版本就像，哦，人们似乎在点击这个。

Maybe that's good.

也许这样很好。

But it's actually a pretty straightforward exercise to instrument the system to realize that, hey, people click on this, and then they don't really spend a lot of time reading the news after clicking on it.

但这实际上是一个非常简单的练习，让系统意识到，嘿，人们点击这个，然后他们在点击它后并没有真正花很多时间阅读新闻。

And after they do this a few times, it doesn't really correlate with them saying that they're having a good experience.

当他们这样做了几次之后，这与他们所说的良好体验并没有真正的关联。

Some of how we measure this is just by looking at how people use the services.

我们衡量这一点的一些方法只是通过观察人们如何使用这些服务。

But I think it's also important to balance that by having real people come in and tell us, OK-- we show them, here are the stories that we could have showed you, which of these are most meaningful to you, or would make it so that you have the best experience, and just mapping the algorithm and what we do to that ground truth of what people say that they want.

但我认为平衡这一点也很重要，让真实的人进来告诉我们，好吧——我们向他们展示，这是我们可以向你展示的故事，其中哪些对你来说最有意义，或者会让你拥有最好的体验，然后将算法和我们所做的事情映射到人们所说的他们想要的基本事实。

So I think that, through a set of things like that, we really have made large steps to minimize things like clickbait over time.

所以我认为，通过一系列类似的事情，我们确实已经迈出了很大的一步，随着时间的推移，尽量减少标题诱饵之类的事情。

It's not like gone from the internet.

这并不像从互联网上消失了。

But I think we've done a good job of minimizing it on our services.

但我认为我们在最大限度地减少服务中的这种情况方面做得很好。

Within that though, I do think that we need to be pretty careful about not being paternalistic about what makes different people feel good.

不过，我确实认为我们需要非常小心，不要在让不同的人感觉良好的问题上表现出家长式的作风。

So I mean, I don't know that everyone feels good about cute animals.

所以我的意思是，我不知道每个人都对可爱的动物感觉良好。

I mean, I can't imagine that people would feel really bad about it.

我的意思是，我无法想象人们会对此感到非常难过。

But maybe they don't have as profound of a positive reaction to it as you just expressed.

但也许他们对此的积极反应并不像你刚才所说的那么深刻。

And I don't know.

我不知道。

Maybe people who are more into fighting would look at the street fighting videos-- assuming that they're within our community standards.

也许更喜欢打架的人会看街头打架视频——假设它们符合我们的社区标准。

I think that there's a level of violence that we just don't want to be showing at all.

我认为我们根本不想表现出一定程度的暴力。

But that's a separate question.

但这是一个单独的问题。

But if they are, I mean, then it's like-- I mean, I'm pretty into MMA.

但如果是的话，我的意思是，那么就像——我的意思是，我非常喜欢 MMA。

I don't get a lot of street fighting videos.

我没有看到很多街头打斗视频。

But if I did, maybe I'd feel like I was learning something from that.

但如果我这样做了，也许我会觉得我从中学到了一些东西。

I think at various times in the company's history, we've been a little bit too paternalistic about saying, this is good content, this is bad, you should like this, this is unhealthy for you.

我认为在公司历史上的不同时期，我们都有点过于家长式地认为，这是好内容，这是坏内容，你应该喜欢这个，这对你来说是不健康的。

And I think that we want to look at the long-term effects.

我认为我们想要看看长期影响。

You don't want to get stuck in a short term loop of like, OK, just because you did this today doesn't mean it's what you aspire for yourself over time.

你不想陷入短期循环，比如，好吧，仅仅因为你今天做了这件事并不意味着这就是你随着时间的推移所渴望的。

But I think, as long as you look at the long-term of what people both say they want and what they do, giving people a fair amount of latitude to like the things that they like, I just think feels like the right set of values to bring to this.

但我认为，只要你从长远来看人们所说的他们想要的和他们所做的，给予人们相当大的自由度来喜欢他们喜欢的东西，我只是认为感觉这是一套正确的价值观。

Now, of course, that doesn't go for everything.

当然，这并不适用于一切。

There are things that are truly off limits and things that-- like bullying, for example, or things that are really inciting violence, things like that.

有些事情确实是禁止的，比如欺凌，或者真正煽动暴力的事情，诸如此类。

I mean, we have the whole community standards around this.

我的意思是，我们有围绕此的整个社区标准。

But I think, except for those things which I would hope that most people can agree, OK, bullying is bad-- I hope that 100% of people agree with that.

但我想，除了那些我希望大多数人都能同意的事情之外，好吧，欺凌是不好的——我希望100%的人都同意这一点。

And not 100%, maybe 99%.

而且不是 100%，也许是 99%。

Except for the things that kind of get that very-- that feel pretty extreme and bad like that, I think you want to give people space to like what they want to like.

除了那些感觉非常极端和糟糕的事情之外，我认为你应该给人们空间去喜欢他们想要喜欢的东西。

One thing that came about in that conversation, however, was I realized there are all these tools.

然而，在那次谈话中发生的一件事是，我意识到有所有这些工具。

But do people really know that these tools exist?

但人们真的知道这些工具的存在吗？

And I think about my own experience with Instagram.

我想到了我自己使用 Instagram 的经历。

I love watching Adam Mosseri's Friday Q&As because he explains a lot of the tools that I didn't know existed.

我喜欢观看 Adam Mosseri 的周五问答，因为他解释了很多我不知道存在的工具。

And if people haven't seen that, I highly recommend they watch that.

如果人们还没有看过，我强烈建议他们观看。

I think he takes questions on Thursdays and answers them most every Fridays.

我认为他在星期四回答问题，并在每个星期五回答问题。

So if I'm not aware of the tools without watching that, that exists for adults, how does Meta look at the challenge of making sure that people know that there are all these tools-- I mean, dozens and dozens of very useful tools?

因此，如果我不看这些工具就不会意识到这些工具是为成年人而存在的，那么 Meta 如何看待确保人们知道有所有这些工具的挑战——我的意思是，有几十种非常有用的工具？

But I think most of us just know the hashtag, the tag, the click, stories versus feed.

但我认为我们大多数人只知道主题标签、标签、点击、故事与提要。

We now know that-- I also post to Threads.

我们现在知道了——我也在线程中发帖。

I mean, so we know the major channels and tools.

我的意思是，我们知道主要的渠道和工具。

But this is like owning a vehicle that has incredible features that one doesn't realize can take you off road, can allow your vehicle to fly.

但这就像拥有一辆具有令人难以置信的功能的车辆，人们没有意识到它可以让你离开道路，可以让你的车辆飞行。

I mean, there's a lot there.

我的意思是，那里有很多东西。

So what do you think could be done to get that information out?

那么您认为可以采取什么措施来获取这些信息呢？

Maybe this conversation could cue people to .

也许这次谈话可以提示人们。

So yeah, I mean, I think part of this is we probably just need to get out and talk to people more about it.

所以，是的，我的意思是，我认为部分原因是我们可能只需要出去与人们更多地谈论这件事。

And then there's an in-product aspect, which is if you're a teen and you sign up, we take you through a pretty extensive experience that tries to outline some of this.

然后是产品内的方面，如果您是青少年并且注册了，我们将带您经历相当广泛的体验，试图概述其中的一些内容。

But that has limits, too, because when you sign up for a new thing, if you're bombarded with here's a list of features, you're like, OK, I just signed up for this.

但这也有局限性，因为当你注册一个新东西时，如果你被这里的功能列表轰炸，你会想，好吧，我刚刚注册了这个。

I don't really understand much about what the service is.

我不太了解这项服务是什么。

Let me go find some people to follow who are my friends on here before I learn about controls to prevent people from harassing me or something.

在我了解防止人们骚扰我或其他什么的控制措施之前，让我先去找一些我的朋友来关注。

That's why I think it's really important to also show a bunch of these tools in context.

这就是为什么我认为在上下文中展示这些工具非常重要。

So if you're looking at comments, and if you go to delete a comment, or you go to edit something, try to give people prompts in line.

因此，如果您正在查看评论，并且要删除评论或编辑某些内容，请尝试向人们提供排队提示。

It's like, hey, did that you can manage things in these ways around that?

就像，嘿，你能用这些方式来管理事情吗？

Or when you're in the inbox and you're filtering something, remind people in line.

或者，当您在收件箱中过滤某些内容时，提醒排队的人。

So just because of the number of people who use the products and the level of nuance around each of the controls, I think the vast majority of that education, I think, needs to happen in the product.

因此，仅仅因为使用产品的人数以及每个控件的细微差别，我认为绝大多数教育都需要在产品中进行。

But I do think that through conversations like this and others that we need to be doing, I think we can create a broader awareness that those things exist so that way at least people are primed so that way when those things pop up in the product people, they're like, oh yeah, I knew that there was this control.

但我确实认为，通过这样的对话以及我们需要做的其他对话，我认为我们可以更广泛地认识到这些东西的存在，这样至少人们就做好了准备，这样当这些东西突然出现在产品人员中时，他们就会说，哦，是的，我知道有这种控制。

And here's how I would use that.

这就是我将如何使用它。

And that's why I think some stuff like restrict or just filtering, like I just don't want to see as much stuff about this topic-- people like using different tools for very subtle reasons.

这就是为什么我认为一些东西，比如限制或只是过滤，就像我只是不想看到太多关于这个主题的东西——人们出于非常微妙的原因喜欢使用不同的工具。

I mean, maybe you want the content to not show up, but you don't want the person who's posting the content to know that you don't want it to show up.

我的意思是，也许您希望内容不显示，但您不希望发布内容的人知道您不希望内容显示。

Maybe you don't want to get the messages in your main inbox, but you don't want to tell the person actually that you're not friends or something like that.

也许您不想在主收件箱中收到邮件，但您不想实际上告诉对方您不是朋友或类似的事情。

You actually need to give people different tools that have different levels of power and nuance around how the social dynamics around using them play out in order to really allow people to tailor the experience in the ways that they want.

实际上，您需要为人们提供不同的工具，这些工具具有不同级别的功能和围绕使用它们的社交动态如何发挥作用的细微差别，以便真正允许人们以他们想要的方式定制体验。

It's tough, though, to answer the question that you were talking about before.

不过，要回答你之前提到的问题还是很困难的。

Is there an amount of time which is too much?

是否有太多的时间？

Because it does really get to what you're doing.

因为它确实适合你正在做的事情。

If you fast forward beyond just the apps that we have today to an experience that is like a social experience in the future of the augmented reality glasses or something that we're building, a lot of this is going to be you're interacting with people in the way that you would physically as if you were like hanging out with friends or working with people.

如果你快速超越我们今天拥有的应用程序，获得类似于未来增强现实眼镜或我们正在构建的东西的社交体验，那么很多事情将是你与人们的互动方式，就像你与朋友一起出去玩或与人一起工作一样。

But now, they can show up as holograms.

但现在，它们可以显示为全息图。

And you can feel like you're present right there with them, no matter where they actually are.

无论他们实际上身在何处，您都会感觉自己就在他们身边。

And the question is, is there too much time to spend interacting with people like that?

问题是，与这样的人互动是否有太多时间？

Well, at the limit, if we can get that experience to be as rich and giving you as good of a sense of presence as you would have if you were physically there with someone, then I don't see why you would want to restrict the amount that people use that technology to any less than what would be the amount of time that you'd be comfortable interacting with people physically, which obviously is not going to be 24 hours a day.

好吧，在极限情况下，如果我们能够让这种体验变得丰富，并给你一种与某人在一起时一样好的临场感，那么我不明白为什么你会想要限制人们使用该技术的时间，使其少于你愿意与人进行身体互动的时间，这显然不会是一天 24 小时。

You have to do other stuff.

你必须做其他事情。

You have work.

你有工作。

You need to sleep.

你需要睡觉。

But I think it really gets to how you're using these things, whereas if what you're primarily using the services for is you're getting stuck in loops reading news or something that is really getting you into a negative mental state, then I don't know.

但我认为这真的取决于你如何使用这些东西，而如果你使用这些服务的主要目的是你陷入循环阅读新闻或真正让你陷入消极精神状态的东西，那么我不知道。

I mean, I think that there's probably a relatively short period of time that maybe that's a good thing that you want to be doing.

我的意思是，我认为可能有一个相对较短的时间，也许这是你想做的一件好事。

But again, even then it's not zero because just because news might make you unhappy doesn't mean that the answer is to be unaware of negative things that are happening in the world.

但同样，即使如此，它也不是零，因为仅仅因为新闻可能让你不高兴并不意味着答案就是不知道世界上正在发生的负面事情。

I just think that different people have different tolerances for what they can take on that.

我只是认为不同的人对自己能承受的事情有不同的容忍度。

And I think it's generally having some awareness is probably good, as long as it's not more than you're constitutionally able to take.

我认为一般来说有一些意识可能是好的，只要它不超过你的体质所能承受的范围。

So I don't know.

所以我不知道。

I try not be too paternalistic about this as our approach.

作为我们的方法，我尽量不要过于家长式作风。

But we want to empower people by giving them the tools, both people and, if you're a teen, your parents to have tools to understand what you're experiencing and how you're using these things, and then go from there.

但我们希望通过为人们提供工具来赋予人们权力，无论是个人，还是你的父母（如果你是青少年），都有工具来了解你正在经历的事情以及你如何使用这些东西，然后从那里开始。

I find great papers, great ideas.

我发现很棒的论文、很棒的想法。

I think comments are a great source of feedback.

我认为评论是反馈的重要来源。

And I'm not just saying that because you're sitting here.

我这么说并不是因为你坐在这里。

I mean, Instagram in particular, but other Meta platforms have been tremendously helpful for me to get science and health information out.

我的意思是，尤其是 Instagram，但其他 Meta 平台对我获取科学和健康信息也有很大帮助。

One of the things that I'm really excited about, which I only had the chance to try for the first time today, is your new VR platform, the newest Oculus.

我真正兴奋的一件事是你们的新 VR 平台，即最新的 Oculus，我今天才有机会第一次尝试。

And then we can talk about the glasses, the Ray-Bans.

然后我们可以谈谈眼镜，雷朋眼镜。

All of that seems to have been dealt with in this new iteration of VR.

所有这些似乎都在 VR 的新迭代中得到了解决。

I didn't come out of it feeling dizzy at all.

我完全没有感到头晕。

I didn't feel like I was reentering the room in a way that was really jarring.

我不觉得自己以一种非常不和谐的方式重新进入房间。

Going into it is obviously, Whoa, this is a different world.

走进去，显然，哇，这是一个不同的世界。

But you can look to your left and say, oh, someone just came in the door.

但你可以向左边看，然后说，哦，有人刚进门。

Hey, how's it going?

嘿，怎么样？

Hold on, I'm playing this game, just as it was when I was a kid playing in Nintendo and someone would walk in.

等等，我正在玩这个游戏，就像我小时候玩任天堂一样，有人会走进来。

It's fully engrossing.

这是完全令人着迷的。

But you'd be like, hold on.

但你会想，等等。

And you see they're there.

你看到他们就在那里。

So first of all, bravo, incredible.

首先，太棒了，令人难以置信。

And then the next question is, what do we even call this experience?

下一个问题是，我们如何称呼这种体验？

Because it is truly really mixed.

因为它真的很混合。

It's a truly mixed reality experience.

这是真正的混合现实体验。

But like that art on the wall, I mean, that doesn't need to physically be there.

但就像墙上的艺术一样，我的意思是，它不需要实际存在。

So I think that that's the augmented reality experience that we're moving towards.

所以我认为这就是我们正在努力实现的增强现实体验。

And then we've had these headsets that historically we think about as VR.

然后我们就有了这些耳机，历史上我们将其视为虚拟现实。

And that has been something that is like a fully immersive experience.

这就像一种完全身临其境的体验。

But now, we're getting something that's a hybrid in between the two and capable of both, which is a headset that can do both virtual reality and some of these augmented reality experiences.

但现在，我们得到了一种介于两者之间的混合体，并且能够同时实现这两种功能，这是一款既可以实现虚拟现实又可以实现增强现实体验的耳机。

And I think that that's really powerful, both because you're going to get new applications that allow people to collaborate together.

我认为这非常强大，因为您将获得允许人们一起协作的新应用程序。

And maybe the two of us are here physically, but someone joins us and it's their avatar there.

也许我们两个人都在这里，但有人加入了我们，那是他们的化身。

Or maybe it's some version in the future.

或者也许是未来的某个版本。

You're having a team meeting.

你正在开团队会议。

And you have some people there physically.

那里有一些人。

And you have some people dialing in.

有一些人正在拨通电话。

And they're basically like a hologram, there virtually.

它们基本上就像全息图，几乎就在那里。

But then you also have some AI personas that are on your team that are helping you do different things.

但你的团队中也有一些人工智能角色可以帮助你做不同的事情。

And they can be embodied as avatars and around the table meeting with you.

他们可以化身为你的化身，围坐在桌子旁与你会面。

So I don't know.

所以我不知道。

Maybe in the future, people will have that experience where you can feel like you're kind of sitting there.

也许在未来，人们会有那种感觉，就像你坐在那里一样。

And it's and it's even easier, and lighter weight and safer.

而且它更加简单、重量更轻、更安全。

And if you're not having a good experience, you can just teleport out of there and be gone.

如果您没有获得良好的体验，您可以直接传送离开那里并离开。

But yeah, I think that this will be an interesting question in the future.

但是，是的，我认为这在未来将是一个有趣的问题。

There are clearly a lot of things that are only possible physically that-- or are so much better physically.

显然，很多事情只有在物理上才可能实现，或者在物理上要好得多。

And then there are all these things that we're building up that can be digital experiences.

我们正在构建的所有这些东西都可以成为数字体验。

But it's this weird artifact of how this stuff has been developed that the digital world and the physical world exist in these completely different planes.

但正是这种奇怪的东西是如何开发的，数字世界和物理世界存在于这些完全不同的平面中。

When you want to interact with the digital world-- we do it all the time.

当您想与数字世界互动时，我们一直都会这样做。

But we pull out a small screen.

但我们拿出一个小屏幕。

Or we have a big screen.

或者我们有一个大屏幕。

And just basically, we're interacting with the digital world through these screens.

基本上，我们通过这些屏幕与数字世界互动。

But I think if we fast forward a decade or more, I think one of the really interesting questions about what is the world that we're going to live in, I think it's going to increasingly be this mesh of the physical and digital worlds that will allow us to feel, A, that the world that we're in is just a lot richer because there can be all these things that people create that are just so much easier to do digitally than physically.

但我认为，如果我们快进十年或更长时间，我认为真正有趣的问题之一是我们将生活在一个什么样的世界，我认为物理世界和数字世界将越来越多地融合在一起，这将使我们感到，A，我们所处的世界要丰富得多，因为人们创造的所有这些东西在数字上比在物理上更容易实现。

But B, you're going to have a real physical sense of presence with these things and not feel like interacting in the digital world is taking you away from the physical world, which today is just so much viscerally richer and more powerful.

但是B，你会对这些东西有一种真实的物理存在感，并且不会觉得在数字世界中互动会让你远离物理世界，而今天的物理世界在本质上更加丰富和强大。

I think the digital world will be embedded in that and will feel just as vivid in a lot of ways.

我认为数字世界将融入其中，并且在很多方面都会感觉同样生动。

So that's why I always think-- when you were saying before, you felt like you could look around and see the real room.

所以这就是为什么我总是想——当你之前说的时候，你觉得你可以环顾四周，看到真正的房间。

I actually think there's an interesting kind of philosophical distinction between the real room and the physical room, which historically I think people would have said those are the same thing.

事实上，我认为真实的房间和物理房间之间存在着一种有趣的哲学区别，从历史上看，我认为人们会说它们是同一件事。

But I actually think, in the future, the real room is going to be the combination of the physical world with all the digital artifacts and objects that are in there that you can interact with them and feel present, whereas the physical world is just the part that's physically there.

但我实际上认为，在未来，真实的房间将是物理世界与所有数字文物和物体的结合，你可以与它们互动并感觉存在，而物理世界只是物理存在的部分。

And I think it's possible to build a real world that's the sum of these two that will actually be more profound experience than what we have today.

我认为有可能建立一个现实世界，它是这两者的总和，实际上将比我们今天所拥有的体验更深刻。

And I think there's something about the mesh of the physical room and the virtual experience that makes it neither of one world or the other.

我认为物理房间和虚拟体验的网格使得它既不是一个世界也不是另一个世界。

I mean, I really felt at the interface of those.

我的意思是，我真的对这些的界面有感觉。

And I certainly got presence, this feeling of forgetting that I was in a virtual experience and got my heart rate up pretty quickly.

我确实感受到了存在感，这种忘记自己处于虚拟体验中的感觉，并且我的心率很快就加快了。

We had to stop because we were going to start recording.

我们不得不停下来，因为我们要开始录音。

But I would do that for a good 45 minutes in the morning.

但我早上会花 45 分钟这样做。

And there's no amount of money you could pay me truly to look at a screen while pedaling on a bike or running on a treadmill.

而且你付不了多少钱才能真正让我在骑自行车或在跑步机上跑步时看屏幕。

So again, bravo, I think it's going to be very useful.

再说一遍，太棒了，我认为这将非常有用。

It's going to get people moving their bodies more, which certainly-- social media, up until now, and a lot of technologies have been accused of limiting the amount of physical activity that both children and adults are engaged in.

这会让人们更多地活动身体，当然，到目前为止，社交媒体和许多技术都被指责限制了儿童和成人所从事的身体活动量。

And we know we need physical activity.

我们知道我们需要体力活动。

You're a big proponent of and practitioner of physical activity.

您是体育活动的大力支持者和实践者。

So is this a major goal of Meta, to get people moving their bodies more and getting their heart rates up and so on?

那么，让人们更多地活动身体、提高心率等等，这是 Meta 的主要目标吗？

And I think building a computer for your whole body and not just for your mind is very fitting with this worldview that the actual essence of you, if you want to be present with another person, if you want to be fully engaged in experience is not just-- it's not just a video conference call that looks at your face and where you can share ideas.

我认为，为你的整个身体而不仅仅是为你的思想打造一台计算机非常符合这种世界观，即如果你想与另一个人在一起，如果你想完全参与体验，那么你的真正本质不仅仅是——它不仅仅是一个看着你的脸以及你可以分享想法的视频电话会议。

It's something that you can engage your whole body.

这是你可以全身心投入的事情。

So, yeah I mean, I think being physical is very important to me.

所以，是的，我的意思是，我认为身体素质对我来说非常重要。

I mean, that's a lot of the most fun stuff that I get to do.

我的意思是，这是我能做的很多最有趣的事情。

It's a really important part of how I personally balance my energy levels and just get a diversity of experiences because I could spend all my time running the company.

这是我个人如何平衡自己的精力水平并获得多样化经验的一个非常重要的部分，因为我可以把所有的时间都花在经营公司上。

But I think it's good for people to do some different things and compete in different areas or learn different things.

但我认为人们做一些不同的事情并在不同的领域竞争或学习不同的东西是有好处的。

And all of that is good.

所有这些都很好。

If people want to do really intense workouts with the work that we're doing with Quest or with eventual AR glasses, great.

如果人们想通过我们使用 Quest 或最终的 AR 眼镜进行真正剧烈的锻炼，那就太好了。

But even if you don't want to do a really intense workout, I think just having a computing environment and platform which is inherently physical captures more of the essence of what we are as people than any of the previous computing platforms that we've had to date.

但即使你不想进行真正激烈的锻炼，我认为仅仅拥有一个本质上是物理的计算环境和平台比我们迄今为止所拥有的任何以前的计算平台都更能捕捉到我们作为人的本质。

So you're actually lifting physical weights.

所以你实际上是在举重。

But it's telling you whether or not you're breaking form.

但它可以告诉你你是否正在打破状态。

I mean, there's just so much that could be done inside of there.

我的意思是，里面可以做的事情实在是太多了。

And then my mind just starts to spiral into, wow, this is very likely to transform what we think of as, quote unquote, "exercise."

然后我的思绪开始盘旋，哇，这很可能会改变我们对“锻炼”的看法。

But some things are still going to be hard.

但有些事情仍然会很困难。

So you mentioned boxing.

所以你提到了拳击。

That one works pretty well because we understand your head position.

这个效果很好，因为我们了解您的头部位置。

We understand your hands.

我们了解您的双手。

And now, we're increasingly understanding your body position.

现在，我们越来越了解您的身体姿势。

But let's say you want to expand that to Muay Thai or kickboxing.

但假设您想将其扩展到泰拳或跆拳道。

OK.

好的。

So legs, that's a different part of tracking.

所以腿，这是跟踪的不同部分。

That's harder because that's out of the field of view more of the time.

这更困难，因为更多时候它不在视野范围内。

But there's also the element of resistance.

但也有阻力的因素。

So you can throw a punch, and retract it, and shadow box and do that without upsetting your physical balance that much.

所以你可以打出一拳，然后收回它，然后用影子盒子做这件事，而不会过多地扰乱你的身体平衡。

But if you want to throw a roundhouse kick and there's no one there, then, I mean, the standard way that you do it when you're shadowboxing is you basically do a little 360.

但是，如果你想打回旋踢，而那里没有人，那么，我的意思是，你打太极拳时的标准方法是基本上做一点 360 度旋转。

But I don't know.

但我不知道。

Is that going to feel great?

那感觉会很棒吗？

I mean, I think there's a question about what that experience should be.

我的意思是，我认为存在一个关于这种体验应该是什么的问题。

And then if you want to go even further, if you want to get grappling to work, I'm not even sure how you would do that without having resistance of understanding what the force is applied to you would be.

然后，如果你想走得更远，如果你想开始擒抱工作，我什至不确定你会如何做到这一点，而不需要理解施加在你身上的力是什么。

And then you get into, OK, maybe you're going to have some kind of bodysuit that can apply haptics.

然后你就会想，好吧，也许你会拥有某种可以应用触觉的紧身衣。

But I'm not even sure that even a pretty advanced haptic system is going to be able to be quite good enough to simulate the actual forces that would be applied to you in a grappling scenario.

但我什至不确定即使是相当先进的触觉系统是否能够足够好来模拟在擒抱场景中施加到你身上的实际力量。

So this is part of what's fun about technology, though, is you keep on getting new capabilities.

因此，这就是技术的乐趣之一，不过，你不断获得新的功能。

And then you need to figure out what things you can do with them.

然后你需要弄清楚你可以用它们做什么。

So I think it's really neat that we can do boxing.

所以我认为我们能打拳击真是太好了。

And we can do the supernatural thing.

我们可以做超自然的事情。

And there's a bunch of awesome cardio, and dancing and things like that.

还有很多很棒的有氧运动、舞蹈等等。

And then there's also still so much more to do that I'm excited to get to over time.

此外，还有很多事情要做，我很高兴随着时间的推移能够完成这些工作。

But it's a long journey.

但这是一个漫长的旅程。

But for people who don't have the space for it, or who can't afford to buy a piano, or just aren't sure that they would want to make that investment at the beginning of learning how to play piano, I think, in the future, you'll have the option of just buying an app or a hologram piano which will be a lot more affordable.

但对于那些没有空间的人，或者买不起钢琴的人，或者只是不确定自己是否愿意在开始学习弹钢琴时进行投资的人，我认为，将来，你可以选择只购买应用程序或全息钢琴，这会更便宜。

And I think that's going to unlock a ton of creativity too because instead of the market for piano makers being constrained to like a relatively small set of experts who have perfected that craft, you're going to have kids or developers all around the world designing crazy designs for potential keyboards and pianos that look nothing like what we've seen before, but maybe bring even more joy or even more fun into the world where you have fewer of these physical constraints.

我认为这也将释放出大量的创造力，因为钢琴制造商的市场不再局限于一小部分完善了工艺的专家，而是让世界各地的孩子或开发人员为潜在的键盘和钢琴设计疯狂的设计，这些设计看起来与我们以前见过的完全不同，但可能会给这个物理限制更少的世界带来更多的欢乐或更多的乐趣。

So I think there's going to be a lot of wild stuff to explore.

所以我认为将会有很多野生的东西值得探索。

And by the way, I'm not getting paid to say any of this.

顺便说一句，我说这些话并没有得到报酬。

I'm just still blown away by this.

我仍然对此感到震惊。

Folks, I want a these very badly.

伙计们，我非常想要这些。

I could hear, OK, I'm selecting those now-- or that music now.

我可以听到，好吧，我现在正在选择那些——或者现在的音乐。

And then I could hear it in the background.

然后我就可以在背景中听到它。

But then I could still have a conversation.

但那时我仍然可以交谈。

So this was neither headphones in nor headphones out.

所以这既不是耳机输入也不是耳机输出。

And I could say, wait, pause the music.

我可以说，等等，暂停音乐。

And it would pause.

它会暂停。

And the best part was I didn't have to, quote unquote, "leave the room" mentally.

最棒的是我不必在心里“离开房间”。

I didn't even have to take out a phone.

我什至不用拿出手机。

It was all interfaced through this very local environment in and around the head.

这一切都是通过头部内部和周围的本地环境进行连接的。

And as a neuroscientist, I'm fascinated by this because, of course, all of our perceptions-- auditory, visual et cetera-- are occurring inside the casing of this thing we call a skull.

作为一名神经科学家，我对此很着迷，因为当然，我们所有的感知——听觉、视觉等等——都发生在我们称之为头骨的外壳内。

But maybe you could comment on the origin of that design for you, the ideas behind that, and where you think it could go because I'm sure I'm just scratching the surface.

但也许你可以评论一下你的设计的起源、背后的想法，以及你认为它会走向何方，因为我确信我只是触及了表面。

Now, that said, there's a bunch of really hard technology problems to address in order to be able to get to this point where you can put full holograms in the world.

话虽如此，为了能够在世界上放置完整的全息图，还有很多非常困难的技术问题需要解决。

You're basically miniaturizing a supercomputer and putting it into a glasses so that the glasses still look stylish and normal.

你基本上是将超级计算机小型化并将其放入眼镜中，这样眼镜仍然看起来时尚而正常。

And that's a really hard technology problem.

这是一个非常困难的技术问题。

Making things small is really hard.

把事情变小真的很难。

A holographic display is different from what our industry has optimized for for 30 or 40 years now, building screens.

全息显示器与我们行业优化了 30 或 40 年的屏幕不同。

There's a whole industrial process around that goes into phones, and TVs, and computers, and increasingly so many things that have different screens.

手机、电视、电脑以及越来越多具有不同屏幕的产品都有一个完整的工业流程。

There's a whole pipeline that's gotten very good at making that kind of screen.

有一个完整的流程非常擅长制作这种屏幕。

And the holographic displays are just a completely different thing because it's not a screen.

全息显示器是完全不同的东西，因为它不是屏幕。

It's a thing that you can shoot light into through a laser or some other kind of projector.

你可以通过激光或其他类型的投影仪将光射入它。

And it can place that as an object in the world.

它可以将其作为一个对象放置在世界中。

So that's going to need to be this whole other industrial process that gets built up to doing that in an efficient way.

因此，这将需要建立一个完整的其他工业流程，以有效的方式做到这一点。

So all that said, we're basically taking two different approaches towards building this at once.

综上所述，我们基本上同时采用两种不同的方法来构建它。

One is we are trying to keep in mind what is the long-term thing that-- it's not super far off.

一是我们正在努力牢记什么是长期的事情——它并不遥远。

Within a few years, I think we'll have something that's a first version of this full vision that I'm talking about.

几年之内，我认为我们将拥有我正在谈论的完整愿景的第一个版本。

I mean, we have something that's working internally that we use as a dev kit.

我的意思是，我们有一些内部运行的东西可以用作开发工具包。

But that one, that's a big challenge.

但这是一个很大的挑战。

It's going to be more expensive.

它会更贵。

And it's harder to get all the pieces working.

而且让所有部分都正常工作更加困难。

The other approach has been, all right, let's start with what we know we can put into a pair of stylish sunglasses today and just make them as smart as we can.

另一种方法是，好吧，让我们从我们知道今天可以放入一副时尚太阳镜中的东西开始，并让它们尽可能智能。

So for the first version, we worked with-- we did this collaboration with Ray-Ban because that's well-accepted.

因此，对于第一个版本，我们与雷朋进行了合作，因为这很容易被接受。

These are well-designed glasses.

这些是设计精良的眼镜。

They're classic.

它们很经典。

People have used them for decades.

人们已经使用它们数十年了。

For the first version, we got a sensor on the front, so you could capture moments without having to take your phone out of your pocket.

对于第一个版本，我们在前面安装了一个传感器，因此您无需从口袋中取出手机即可捕捉精彩瞬间。

So you got photos and videos.

所以你有照片和视频。

You had the speaker and the microphone, so you can listen to music.

您有扬声器和麦克风，因此您可以听音乐。

You could communicate with it.

你可以和它交流。

But that was the first version of it.

但这是它的第一个版本。

We had a lot of the basics there.

我们在那里有很多基础知识。

But we saw how people used it.

但我们看到了人们如何使用它。

And we tuned it.

我们调整了它。

We made the camera twice as good for this new version that we made.

对于我们制作的这个新版本，我们将相机的性能提高了一倍。

The audio is a lot crisper for the use cases that we saw that people actually used, which is-- some of it is listening to music.

对于我们看到人们实际使用的用例来说，音频更加清晰，其中一些是听音乐。

But a lot of it is people want to take calls on their glasses.

但其中很多是人们想通过眼镜接听电话。

They want to listen to podcasts.

他们想听播客。

But the biggest thing that I think is interesting is the ability to get AI running on it, which it doesn't just run on the glasses.

但我认为最有趣的是让人工智能在其上运行的能力，它不仅仅在眼镜上运行。

It also kind of proxies through your phone.

它还通过您的手机进行代理。

But I mean, with all the advances in LLMs-- we talked about this a bit in the first part of the conversation.

但我的意思是，随着法学硕士的所有进步——我们在谈话的第一部分讨论了这一点。

Having the ability to have your Meta AI assistant that you can just talk to and basically ask any question throughout the day is-- I think it'd be really fascinating.

如果你能够拥有元人工智能助手，你可以全天与它交谈并基本上提出任何问题，我认为这真的很令人着迷。

And like you were saying about how we process the world as people, eventually, I think you're going to want your AI assistant to be able to see what you see and hear what you hear.

就像你所说的我们作为人如何处理世界一样，最终，我认为你会希望你的人工智能助手能够看到你所看到的，听到你所听到的。

Maybe not all the time.

也许并非总是如此。

But you're going to want to be able to tell it to go into a mode where it can see what you see and hear what you hear.

但你会希望能够告诉它进入一种模式，让它可以看到你所看到的，听到你所听到的。

And what's the device design that best positions an AI assistant to be able to see what you see and hear what you hear so it can best help you?

什么样的设备设计才能最好地让人工智能助手能够看到你所看到的、听到你所听到的，从而最好地为你提供帮助？

Well, that's glasses, where it basically has a sensor to be able to see what you see and a microphone that is close to your ears that can hear what you hear.

嗯，这就是眼镜，它基本上有一个传感器，可以看到你看到的东西，还有一个靠近你耳朵的麦克风，可以听到你听到的东西。

The other design goal is, like you said, to keep you present in the world.

正如您所说，另一个设计目标是让您保持存在于世界中。

So I think one of the issues with phones is they pull you away from what's physically happening around you.

所以我认为手机的问题之一是它们让你远离周围发生的事情。

And I don't think that the next generation of computing will do that.

我认为下一代计算不会做到这一点。

But somehow, it feels important to post our unique experience.

但不知何故，发布我们独特的经历感觉很重要。

With glasses, that would essentially smooth that gap completely.

戴上眼镜，这基本上可以完全消除这个差距。

You could just worry about it later, download it then.

您可以稍后再担心，然后下载。

There are issues, I realize, with glasses because they are so seamless with everyday experience, even though you and I aren't wearing them now.

我意识到，眼镜存在一些问题，因为它们与日常体验是如此无缝，即使你和我现在没有佩戴它们。

It's very common for people to wear glasses-- issues of recording and consent.

人们戴眼镜很常见——记录和同意的问题。

.

。

So I mean, the current Ray-Ban Meta glasses are $299.

所以我的意思是，目前的 Ray-Ban Meta 眼镜售价 299 美元。

I think when we have one that has a display in it, it'll probably be some amount more than that.

我认为当我们拥有一个带有显示器的设备时，它的数量可能会比这个多一些。

But it'll also be more powerful.

但它也会更强大。

So I think that people will choose what they want to use based on what the capabilities are that they want and what they can afford.

所以我认为人们会根据他们想要的功能和他们能负担得起的能力来选择他们想要使用的东西。

But a lot of our goal in building things is we try to make things that can be accessible to everyone.

但我们构建产品的很多目标是努力打造每个人都可以使用的产品。

Our game as a company isn't to build things and then charge a premium price for it.

作为一家公司，我们的游戏并不是建造东西然后收取高价。

We try to build things that then everyone can use, and then become more useful because a very large number of people are using them.

我们尝试构建每个人都可以使用的东西，然后变得更有用，因为有很多人在使用它们。

So it's just a very different approach.

所以这只是一种非常不同的方法。

We're not like Apple or some of these companies that just try to make something and then sell it for as much as they can, which, I mean, they're a great company.

我们不像苹果或其中一些公司，只是试图制造一些东西，然后尽可能多地出售它，我的意思是，他们是一家伟大的公司。

So I mean, I think that model is fine, too.

所以我的意思是，我认为这个模型也很好。

But our approach is going to be we want stuff that can be affordable so that way everyone in the world can use it.

但我们的方法是我们想要负担得起的东西，这样世界上的每个人都可以使用它。

And on the positive side, we know, based on some really large clinical trials, that kids who spend-- and adults who spend two hours a day or more out of doors don't experience that and maybe even reverse their myopia.

从积极的一面来看，我们知道，根据一些非常大型的临床试验，每天在户外度过两个小时或更长时间的孩子和成年人不会经历这种情况，甚至可能逆转他们的近视。

And it has something to do with exposure to sunlight.

而且和暴露在阳光下也有关系。

But it has a lot to do with long view, viewing things at a distance greater than three or four feet away.

但这与远视有很大关系，即在三四英尺以外的距离观察事物。

And with the glasses, I realize, one could actually do digital work out of doors.

我意识到，有了这副眼镜，人们实际上可以在户外进行数字工作。

It could measure and tell you how much time you've spent looking at things up close versus far away.

它可以测量并告诉你你花在近距离和远处观察事物的时间。

I mean, this is just another example that leaps to mind.

我的意思是，这只是另一个浮现在脑海中的例子。

But in accessing the visual system, you're effectively accessing the whole brain because it's the only two bits of brain that are outside the cranial vault.

但在访问视觉系统时，您实际上是在访问整个大脑，因为它是大脑中唯一位于颅顶之外的两个部分。

So it just seems like putting technology right at the level of the eyes, seeing what the eyes see, has just got to be the best way to go.

因此，将技术放在眼睛的水平上，看到眼睛看到的东西，似乎是最好的方法。

But there's additional information there, such as what are you focusing on in your world.

但那里还有其他信息，例如您在自己的世界中关注什么。

How much of your time is spent looking at things far away versus up close?

你花多少时间观察远处的事物，而不是花在近距离观察的时间？

How much social time did you have today?

今天你有多少社交时间？

It's really tricky to get that with a phone.

用手机来实现这一点确实很困难。

If my phone were right in front of us as if we were at a standard lunch nowadays, certainly in Silicon Valley, and then we're peering at our phones, I mean, how much real direct attention and was in the conversation at hand versus something else?

如果我的手机就在我们面前，就像我们现在正在吃标准午餐一样，当然是在硅谷，然后我们盯着手机，我的意思是，与其他事情相比，手头的对话中有多少真正的直接关注？

You can get issues of where are you placing your attention by virtue of where you're placing your eyes.

你可以根据你的眼睛放在哪里来判断你的注意力放在哪里。

And I think that information is not accessible with a phone in your pocket or in front of you.

我认为，通过口袋里或面前的手机无法获取信息。

Yeah, I mean, a little bit, but not nearly as rich and complete information as one gets when you're really pulling the data from the level of vision and what kids and adults are actually looking at and attending to.

是的，我的意思是，有一点，但当你真正从视觉层面提取数据以及孩子和成人实际看到和关注的内容时，你所获得的信息并不那么丰富和完整。

So if you want to just look at something and select it by looking at it with your eyes rather than having to drag a controller over or pick up a hologram or anything like that, you can do that with eye tracking.

因此，如果您只想查看某些内容并通过用眼睛查看来选择它，而不是拖动控制器或拿起全息图或类似的东西，您可以通过眼动追踪来做到这一点。

So that's a pretty profound and cool experience, too, as well as just understanding what you're looking at so that way you're not wasting compute power drawing pixels and high resolution in a part of the world that's going to be in your peripheral vision.

因此，这也是一种非常深刻和很酷的体验，并且只是了解您所看到的内容，这样您就不会浪费计算能力在您的周边视觉中的世界部分中绘制像素和高分辨率。

So yeah, all of these things, there are interesting design and technology trade-offs, where if you want the external sensor, that's one thing.

所以，是的，所有这些事情，都有有趣的设计和技术权衡，如果你想要外部传感器，这是一回事。

If you also want the eye tracking, now that's a different set of sensors.

如果您还想要眼球追踪，那么现在这是一组不同的传感器。

Each one of these consumes compute, which consumes battery.

其中每一项都会消耗计算量，从而消耗电池。

They take up more space.

它们占用更多空间。

So it's like, where are the eye tracking sensors going to be?

那么，眼球追踪传感器将在哪里？

It's like, well, you want to make sure that the rim of the glasses is actually quite thin because-- I mean, there's a variance of how thick can glasses be before they look more like goggles than glasses.

就像，嗯，你想确保眼镜的边缘实际上很薄，因为——我的意思是，在眼镜看起来更像护目镜而不是眼镜之前，眼镜的厚度是有差异的。

So I think that there's this whole space.

所以我认为整个空间都是存在的。

And I think people are going to end up choosing what product makes sense for them.

我认为人们最终会选择对他们有意义的产品。

Maybe they want something that's more powerful, that has more of the sensors, but it's going to be a little more expensive, maybe like slightly thicker.

也许他们想要更强大的东西，有更多的传感器，但它会更贵一点，也许稍微厚一点。

Or maybe you want a more basic thing that just looks very similar to what Ray-Ban glasses are that people have been wearing for decades but has AI in it and you can capture moments without having to take your phone out and send them to people.

或者，也许您想要一种更基本的东西，看起来与人们几十年来一直佩戴的雷朋眼镜非常相似，但它具有人工智能，您可以捕捉瞬间，而无需拿出手机并将其发送给人们。

In the latest version, we got the ability in to live stream.

在最新版本中，我们获得了直播功能。

I think that that's pretty crazy, that now you can be-- going back to your concert case or whatever else you're doing, you can be doing sports or watching your kids play something.

我认为这非常疯狂，现在你可以 - 回到你的音乐会案例或任何其他你正在做的事情，你可以做运动或看你的孩子玩东西。

And you can be watching.

你可以观看。

And you can be live streaming it to your family group, so people can see it.

您可以将其直播到您的家庭群组，以便人们可以看到。

I think that stuff is-- I think that's pretty cool, that you basically have a normal looking glasses at this point that can live stream and has an AI assistant.

我认为这非常酷，你现在基本上拥有一副正常的眼镜，可以进行直播并且有人工智能助手。

So the stuff is making a lot faster progress in a lot of ways than I would have thought.

因此，这些东西在很多方面取得的进展比我想象的要快得多。

And I don't know.

我不知道。

I think people are going to like this version.

我认为人们会喜欢这个版本。

But there's a lot more still to do.

但还有很多事情要做。

For instance, I get asked a lot of questions.

例如，我被问了很多问题。

I don't have the opportunity to respond to all those questions.

我没有机会回答所有这些问题。

But with things like ChatGPT, people are trying to generate answers to those questions on other platforms.

但通过像 ChatGPT 这样的东西，人们试图在其他平台上找到这些问题的答案。

Will I have the opportunity to soon have an AI version of myself where people can ask me questions about what I recommend for sleep and circadian rhythm, fitness, mental health, et cetera based on content I've already generated that will be accurate so they could just ask my avatar?

我是否有机会很快拥有一个人工智能版本的自己，人们可以根据我已经生成的准确内容向我询问关于睡眠和昼夜节律、健身、心理健康等的建议，以便他们可以直接询问我的化身？

So for one, I think it's really important that-- it's not that there's a bunch of versions of you.

因此，我认为非常重要的是——并不是你有很多版本。

It's that if anyone is creating an AI assistant version of you, it should be something that you control.

也就是说，如果有人要创建一个你的人工智能助手版本，它应该是你可以控制的东西。

I think there are some platforms that are out there today that just let people like make-- I don't know-- an AI bought of me or other figures.

我认为现在有一些平台可以让人们制作——我不知道——购买我或其他人物的人工智能。

And it's like, I don't know.

就像，我不知道。

I mean, we have platform policies for-- and for decades, since the beginning of the company at this point, which is almost 20 years, that basically don't allow impersonation.

我的意思是，我们的平台政策已经有几十年了，从公司成立到现在，已经近 20 年了，基本上不允许假冒行为。

Real identity is like one of the core aspects that our company was started on.

真实身份就像我们公司成立的核心方面之一。

You want to authentically be yourself.

你想成为真正的自己。

So yeah, I think if you're almost any creator, being able to engage your community-- and there's just going to be more demand to interact with you than you have hours in the day.

所以，是的，我认为如果你几乎是任何创作者，都能够参与到你的社区中——而且与你互动的需求将会比你一天中的时间还要多。

So there are both people who out there who would benefit from being able to talk to an AI version of you.

因此，如果能够与人工智能版本的你交谈，那么这两个人都会受益。

And I think you, and other creators, would benefit from being able to keep your community engaged and service that demand that people have to engage with you.

我认为您和其他创作者如果能够保持社区的参与度并提供需要人们与您互动的服务，将会受益匪浅。

But you're going to want to know that that AI version of you or assistant is going to represent you the way that you would want.

但你会想知道你或助手的人工智能版本会按照你想要的方式代表你。

And there are a lot of things that are awesome about these modern LLMs.

这些现代法学硕士有很多令人惊叹的地方。

But having perfect predictability about how it's going to represent something is not one of the current strengths.

但对于如何表示某物具有完美的可预测性并不是当前的优势之一。

So I think that there's some work that needs to get done there.

所以我认为那里需要完成一些工作。

I don't think it needs to be 100% perfect all the time.

我认为它不需要一直100%完美。

But you need to have very good confidence, I would say, that it's going to represent you the way that you'd want for you to want to turn it on, which, again, you should have control over whether you turn it on.

但我想说，你需要有很大的信心，它会以你想要的方式代表你，让你想要打开它，同样，你应该能够控制是否打开它。

So we wanted to start in a different place, which I think is a somewhat easier problem, which is creating new characters for AI personas.

所以我们想从一个不同的地方开始，我认为这是一个更容易的问题，即为人工智能角色创建新的角色。

So that way, it's not-- we built one of the AIs is like a chef.

这样一来，我们就构建了一个人工智能，就像厨师一样。

And they can help you come up with things that you could cook and can help you cook them.

他们可以帮助你想出可以烹饪的东西，也可以帮助你烹饪。

There's a couple of people that are interested in different types of fitness that can help you plan out your workouts or help with recovery or different things like that.

有一些人对不同类型的健身感兴趣，可以帮助您计划锻炼或帮助恢复或类似的事情。

There's an AI that's focused on DIY crafts.

有一个专注于 DIY 工艺品的人工智能。

There's somebody who's a travel expert that can help you make travel plans or give you ideas.

有人是旅行专家，可以帮助您制定旅行计划或为您提供建议。

But the key thing about all of these is they're not modeled off of existing people.

但所有这些的关键在于，他们并不是以现有的人为蓝本的。

So they don't have to have 100% fidelity to making sure that they never say something that a real person who they're modeled after would never say because they're just made up characters.

因此，他们不必百分百保真，以确保他们永远不会说出他们所模仿的真人永远不会说的话，因为他们只是虚构的角色。

So I think that that's a somewhat easier problem.

所以我认为这是一个更容易的问题。

And we actually got a bunch of different well-known people to play those characters because we thought that would make it more fun.

实际上，我们请了一群不同的知名人士来扮演这些角色，因为我们认为这会让事情变得更有趣。

So there's like Snoop Dogg is the dungeon master.

所以史努比狗狗就是地下城的主人。

So you can drop him into a thread and play text-based games.

所以你可以把他放到一个线程中并玩基于文本的游戏。

And I do this with my daughter when I tuck her in at night.

晚上我给女儿盖被子时，我也会这样做。

And she just loves storytelling.

她只是喜欢讲故事。

And it's like Snoop Dogg, as the dungeon master, will come up with here's what's happening next.

就像史努比狗狗，作为地下城的主人，会想出接下来会发生什么。

And she's like, OK, I turn into a mermaid.

她说，好吧，我变成了美人鱼。

And then I like swim across the bay.

然后我喜欢游过海湾。

And I go and find the treasure chest and unlock it.

我去找宝箱并打开它。

And it's like, and then Snoop Dogg just always will have a next version of the-- a next iteration on the story.

就像，然后史努比狗狗总是会有下一个版本——故事的下一个迭代。

So I mean, it's stuff that's fun.

所以我的意思是，这是有趣的事情。

But it's not actually Snoop Dogg.

但它实际上并不是史努比狗狗。

He's just the actor who's playing the dungeon master, which makes it more fun.

他只是扮演地下城主的演员，这使得它更有趣。

So I think that's probably the right place to start, is you can build versions of these characters that people can interact with doing different things.

所以我认为这可能是正确的起点，你可以构建这些角色的版本，人们可以与它们进行交互，做不同的事情。

But I think where you want to get over time is to the place where any creator or any small business can very easily just create an AI assistant that can represent them and interact with your community or customers, if you're a business, and basically just help you grow your enterprise.

但我认为，随着时间的推移，你想要达到的目标是，任何创造者或任何小企业都可以很容易地创建一个人工智能助手，它可以代表他们并与你的社区或客户互动，如果你是一家企业，基本上只是帮助你发展你的企业。

So I think that's going to be cool.

所以我认为这会很酷。

It's a long-term project.

这是一个长期项目。

I think we'll have more progress on it to report on next year.

我认为明年我们会在这方面取得更多进展并进行报告。

But I think that's coming.

但我认为那即将到来。

Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.

另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。

That's the best way to support this podcast.

这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。

If you have questions for me, or comments about the podcast, or guests that you'd like me to consider hosting on the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comment section on YouTube.

如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客有意见，或者希望我考虑在 Huberman Lab 播客上主持嘉宾，请将这些内容放入 YouTube 的评论部分。

I do read all the comments.

我确实阅读了所有评论。

Not during today's episode, but on many previous episodes of the Huberman Lab podcast, we discuss supplements.

不是在今天的节目中，而是在 Huberman Lab 播客的许多之前的节目中，我们讨论了补充剂。

While supplements aren't necessary for everybody, many people derive tremendous benefit from them for things like enhancing sleep, hormone support, and improving focus.

虽然补充剂并不是每个人都需要的，但许多人从它们中获得了巨大的好处，例如增强睡眠、激素支持和提高注意力。

If you'd like to learn more about the supplements discussed on the Huberman Lab podcast, you can go to live momentous-- spelled O-U-S-- so livemomentous.com/huberman.

如果您想了解有关 Huberman Lab 播客上讨论的补充剂的更多信息，您可以访问 live momentous（拼写为 O-U-S），即 livemomentous.com/huberman。

If you're not already following me on social media, it's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.

如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，那么所有社交媒体平台上都有 hubermanlab。

So that's Instagram, Twitter-- now called X-- Threads, Facebook, LinkedIn.

这就是 Instagram、Twitter（现在称为 X）、Threads、Facebook、LinkedIn。

And on all those places, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the content on the Huberman Lab podcast.

在所有这些地方，我讨论了科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容不同。

So again, it's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.

再说一遍，所有社交媒体平台上都是 hubermanlab。

If you haven't already subscribed to our monthly Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a completely zero-cost newsletter that gives you podcast summaries as well as toolkits in the form of brief PDFs.

如果您还没有订阅我们的每月神经网络通讯，神经网络通讯是完全零成本的通讯，它为您提供播客摘要以及简短 PDF 形式的工具包。

We have toolkits related to optimizing sleep, regulating dopamine, deliberate cold exposure, fitness, mental health, learning, and neuroplasticity and much more.

我们拥有与优化睡眠、调节多巴胺、刻意寒冷暴露、健身、心理健康、学习和神经可塑性等相关的工具包。

Again, it's completely zero-cost to sign up.

再次强调，注册完全是零成本。

You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go over to the Menu tab, scroll down to newsletter and supply your email.

您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到“菜单”选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯并提供您的电子邮件即可。

I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.

我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。

Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Mark Zuckerberg and Dr. Priscilla Chan.

再次感谢您参加今天与马克·扎克伯格和普里西拉·陈博士的讨论。

And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.

最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。