Male Roles, Obligations and Options for Building a Fulfilling Life | Scott Galloway
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
And this is the goal.
这就是目标。
The goal is no, because you're going to get nos.
目标是“不”，因为你会得到“不”。
And then I'm going to call you after you've made the approach.
当你接近之后我会打电话给你。
You're going to text me, "I did an approach." "Did you get a no?" "Yeah, I got a no." That's exactly the point.
你要给我发短信，“我采取了一种方法。” “你得到拒绝了吗？” “是的，我得到了拒绝。”这正是重点。
That's the goal.
这就是目标。
Because everyone you admire, everyone you think has killed it, the only thing I can guarantee you is there were a ton of nos in getting to one of the top 10 podcasts in the world, getting to a person as a partner who's higher character and hotter than you, getting to make more money than you would've ever guessed that person would've made.
因为你钦佩的每个人，你认为的每个人都杀死了它，我唯一可以向你保证的是，要进入世界十大播客之一，要找到一个比你品格更高、更性感的人作为合作伙伴，要赚到比你想象的更多的钱，这个人会赚到更多的钱。
The only thing that got them there was the willingness and the endurance to anticipate no.
唯一让他们做到这一点的是愿意和忍耐去预见不会。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Scott Galloway.
今天我的客人是斯科特·加洛韦。
Scott Galloway is a professor at New York University's Stern School of Business and one of the world's leading public educators on intelligent life design, including finances, relationships, and as today's conversation also covers, on the sociopolitical landscape.
斯科特·加洛韦 (Scott Galloway) 是纽约大学斯特恩商学院的教授，也是智能生活设计领域世界领先的公共教育家之一，智能生活设计包括财务、人际关系，以及今天的对话所涉及的社会政治格局。
Today, we mainly talk about masculinity and what men, young and old, and everything in between, are facing today in terms of their roles to take in work, in relationships, and their health.
今天，我们主要讨论男性气质，以及男性，无论年轻还是年长，以及介于两者之间的所有男性，在他们在工作、人际关系和健康中所扮演的角色方面所面临的问题。
And today, we don't just review the data.
今天，我们不只是审查数据。
You'll hear statistics, so Scott is very grounded in quantitative data, which is important.
你会听到统计数据，所以斯科特非常注重定量数据，这很重要。
But he also shares several clear, actionable steps that you can take daily to ensure that you're making progress in work and relationships and finances.
但他还分享了一些清晰、可行的步骤，您可以每天采取这些步骤，以确保您在工作、人际关系和财务方面取得进展。
We also get into a bit of debate, or more, about things like alcohol, the benevolence or lack thereof of big tech and social media, and we talk a lot about the male-female dynamics in terms of the consequences of single-mom homes and divorce, but just generally male-female dynamics.
我们还就酒精、大型科技和社交媒体的仁慈或缺乏等问题进行了一些辩论，或者更多，我们谈论了很多关于单亲妈妈家庭和离婚后果的男女动态，但只是一般的男女动态。
So while today's episode does include a lot of exploration of different topics that frankly I didn't anticipate, it's also very proactive.
因此，虽然今天的节目确实包含了很多对不同主题的探索，坦率地说，这是我没有预料到的，但它也非常积极主动。
Scott delineates the things that you can do and frankly should do each day.
斯科特描述了你每天可以做的事情以及坦率地说应该做的事情。
These aren't just lists or hacks, but effective tools that come from knowledge, data, his deep thinking, and that reflect the landscape we are in now.
这些不仅仅是列表或黑客，而是来自知识、数据和他的深刻思考的有效工具，反映了我们现在所处的环境。
I'm very grateful that Scott took the time for this conversation.
我非常感谢斯科特花时间进行这次谈话。
You'll see that we agree on many things.
你会发现我们在很多事情上都达成了共识。
We disagree on several.
我们在几个方面存在分歧。
He's a very deep thinker, extremely smart, obviously.
显然，他是一位非常深刻的思想家，非常聪明。
He also cares about people.
他也很关心人。
That comes through over and over again, and he's extremely generous today on your behalf with indeed tough love knowledge.
这一遍又一遍地发生，今天他对你非常慷慨，拥有真正深厚的爱情知识。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors.
为了与这个主题保持一致，今天的节目确实有赞助商。
And now for my discussion with Scott Galloway.
现在我与斯科特·加洛韦进行讨论。
Scott Galloway, welcome.
斯科特·加洛韦，欢迎。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Thanks, man.
谢谢，伙计。
It's good to see you.
很高兴见到你。
Actually, I was nervous driving over here.
事实上，我开车来这里很紧张。
I like you and respect you and was thinking, I was trying to figure out why I was nervous, and I really want to do well today.
我喜欢你，尊重你，我在想，我试图找出我为什么紧张，我今天真的很想做得好。
And the last time I had this feeling was when I was going to do Rich Roll's podcast.
上次我有这种感觉是在我准备做 Rich Roll 的播客时。
Like you, I really like and respect Rich, and I remember thinking, I had that same feeling, I wanted to do well.
和你一样，我真的很喜欢并尊重里奇，我记得我当时想，我也有同样的感觉，我想做得很好。
Anyways, good to be here.
不管怎样，很高兴来到这里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
Well, great to have you here.
嗯，很高兴你能来到这里。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Despite my nerves.
尽管我很紧张。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's funny you say that because I was coming here and I was thinking, yeah, I look up to Scott.
你这么说很有趣，因为我刚来到这里，我就想，是的，我尊敬斯科特。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Oh, thanks.
哦，谢谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I respect him, and we've had one conversation prior to this that ended up being quite extended conversation.
我尊重他，在此之前我们已经进行过一次谈话，最终谈话内容相当长。
And I told Rob right before coming in here, our producer, I'm super fired up to-
在来这里之前我告诉罗布，我们的制作人，我非常兴奋——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Thanks, man
谢谢，伙计
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to learn from you and-
向你学习并且-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Good
好
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
just sit down and chat with you.
坐下来和你聊天。
So I actually am going to do something differently this podcast than any other podcast, which is the question I'm about to ask or-
所以我实际上会在这个播客中做一些与其他播客不同的事情，这就是我要问的问题或者-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the kind of thing I'm about to pose, I normally would do off camera.
我要摆出的那种姿势，我通常会在镜头外做。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm going to do it on camera, which is coming in here today, it occurred to me that we, as a, how old are you?
我将在今天来到这里的摄像机上进行拍摄，我突然想到我们，作为一个，你多大了？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I'm going to be 62 in November.
到11月我就62岁了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
62.
62.
You look great, man.
你看起来棒极了，伙计。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Thanks, man.
谢谢，伙计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You can share what you're doing if we get the time, fitness-wise.
如果我们有时间的话，您可以分享您正在做的健身方面的事情。
I'm 50, and the risk we run into, I realize, is that when I was 16, 20, 30, et cetera, yes, I wanted knowledge-
我已经 50 岁了，我意识到，我们遇到的风险是，当我 16 岁、20 岁、30 岁等等时，是的，我想要知识——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
maybe even wisdom from elders, but I also knew with certainty that they didn't understand a thing about what it was like to be that age at that time.
甚至可能是长辈的智慧，但我也确信他们根本不了解当时那个年龄是什么样的。
So I realized that as much as we might think we know, we don't know what it's like to be 16, 25, 30, 40-year-old men, and we'll also talk about women today-
所以我意识到，尽管我们认为我们知道的很多，但我们并不知道 16、25、30、40 岁的男性是什么样子，今天我们还将谈论女性——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but probably mostly men, in 2026.
但到 2026 年，可能主要是男性。
And so how do we reconcile that in a discussion like this?
那么在这样的讨论中我们如何协调这一点呢？
I just wanted to ask you, how do you think about that?
我只是想问你，你怎么看待这个问题？
Because so much of your content and what you're teaching out there is about timeless truths, but there's also a lot of things that are happening now, not just pain points, but maybe opportunities that, I don't know.
因为你的很多内容和你所教授的内容都是关于永恒的真理，但现在也有很多事情正在发生，不仅仅是痛点，也许还有我不知道的机会。
How do you think about do we really know?
你觉得我们真的知道吗？
How should we pass along information in a way that's truly useful to people?
我们应该如何以对人们真正有用的方式传递信息？
Because that's what obviously we both want this to be about.
因为这显然是我们都希望的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Well, just what you said.
嗯，就是你说的那样。
You can't fully relate to a 16 if you're not 16 years old and know what they're going through.
如果你不是 16 岁，也不知道他们正在经历什么，你就无法完全理解 16 岁的人。
And you guys are skateboarders, and when I was 16, I got home, and it was either watch cartoons until my mom got home or it was take risks and go out and find friends and do things.
你们都是滑板爱好者，当我 16 岁的时候，我回到家，要么看动画片直到我妈妈回家，要么冒险出去找朋友做事。
And now there's so much temptation at home between big tech and having a casino in your pocket, a Netflix in your pocket, and porn in your pocket.
现在，在家里，大科技和口袋里的赌场、口袋里的 Netflix 和口袋里的色情片之间存在着如此多的诱惑。
It's just hard to relate to what they go through.
很难理解他们所经历的事情。
I think the first thing is just acknowledging you don't know what you don't know, and then turning to data because there are people who look at the data.
我认为第一件事就是承认你不知道你不知道什么，然后转向数据，因为有人会查看数据。
And I try to counter my biases or my uninformed theses with data.
我尝试用数据来反驳我的偏见或无知的论点。
And so I try to find good people, good research, and inform it.
因此，我尝试寻找优秀的人才、优秀的研究，并为其提供信息。
Also, it helps I have 15 and 18-year-old sons.
此外，它对我 15 岁和 18 岁的儿子也有帮助。
I ask them a lot.
我问了他们很多。
I observe them a lot.
我经常观察他们。
I hang out with them a lot.
我经常和他们一起出去玩。
And you start to pick up on stuff.
然后你开始了解一些东西。
But I think the first is just being open to people pushing back and recognizing, unfortunately, every once in a while in the comment when someone points something out and going, if it really hurts and it's upsetting, it's usually because they're right And they found some soft tissue, and they pressed on it.
但我认为第一个就是对人们反驳并认识到，不幸的是，每隔一段时间，在评论中，当有人指出一些事情并继续进行时，如果它真的很痛并且令人不安，那通常是因为他们是对的，他们发现了一些软组织，然后按了它。
And I try to be open to learning and just acknowledging when I got it wrong.
我尝试以开放的态度去学习，并在犯错时勇于承认。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What do you think are the, could be three, could be five, could be 10 things that all males should strive to check the boxes on in order to have a good life?
您认为所有男性为了过上美好生活都应该努力做到的三件事、五件事、十件事是什么？
Not just to be great in some particular role, but what are the macronutrients, in your opinion-
在您看来，不仅仅是在某个特定角色中表现出色，而且还有哪些常量营养素——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of becoming a healthy, happy, fulfilled male?
成为一个健康、快乐、充实的男性？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I think every person, not just every man, needs a code.
我认为每个人，不仅仅是每个人，都需要一个密码。
And that is you're going to be faced with hundreds of decisions each day, and you want to make, generally speaking, a higher proportion of good decisions than the peer group, right?
也就是说，你每天都会面临数百个决定，而且一般来说，你想要做出比同龄人更高比例的正确决定，对吗？
So what helps is a code.
所以有帮助的是代码。
Some people get that code from religion, the military, their really strong family connections.
有些人从宗教、军队、他们真正牢固的家庭关系中获得了这种密码。
I actually got my first code from my first job.
实际上，我从第一份工作中获得了第一个代码。
I worked at Morgan Stanley, and there was just a certain level of professionalism.
我在摩根士丹利工作，有一定程度的专业精神。
I got code from sports at UCLA.
我从加州大学洛杉矶分校的体育运动中获得了代码。
But I wonder, there's so many lost men right now, I wonder if masculinity can be a code or some sort of aspirational form of masculinity where people born as males might have an easier time leaning in.
但我想知道，现在有这么多迷失的男人，我想知道男性气质是否可以成为一种代码或某种令人向往的男性气质形式，让出生为男性的人可能更容易融入其中。
And I should also say that I don't think masculinity or femininity are sequestered to people born as males or females.
我还应该说，我不认为男性气质或女性气质是与生来为男性或女性的人隔绝的。
I'm drawn to men who are more feminine as friends.
作为朋友，我更喜欢更具女性气质的男人。
My close friends kind of take care of me and are more nurturing.
我的亲密朋友很照顾我，也更有教养。
But I think for young men, if they feel like they can lean into some positive masculine attributes, it could serve as a code.
但我认为对于年轻人来说，如果他们觉得自己可以倾向于一些积极的男性特质，那么它可以作为一种代码。
So I loosely break it down into three very reductive qualities, and that is the first is to be a provider.
所以我把它大致分为三个非常简单的品质，第一个就是成为一个提供者。
I'm not talking about the way the world is, but the way the world should be.
我不是在谈论世界是怎样的，而是世界应该是怎样的。
I think every young man should have a plan and have an assumption that at some point he will have to be the economic lead or provider for his family.
我认为每个年轻人都应该有一个计划，并假设在某个时候他必须成为家庭的经济支柱或养家糊口。
Sometimes that means getting out of the way of your partner who's better at that whole money thing.
有时，这意味着要让开你的伴侣，因为他在金钱方面更擅长。
Sometimes it means providing more domestic or emotional support and labor if your partner's accelerating economically.
有时，如果你的伴侣经济加速发展，这意味着提供更多的家庭或情感支持和劳动力。
When my partner had a kid, she was working at Goldman Sachs.
当我的伴侣生孩子时，她在高盛工作。
She was making more money than me.
她赚的钱比我多。
I was a new academic at NYU.
我是纽约大学的一名新学者。
I was making $160,000 living in New York, which may sound like a lot of money, but it wasn't.
我在纽约的生活收入为 16 万美元，这听起来可能是很多钱，但事实并非如此。
And she was making substantially more.
而且她的收入也大幅增加。
So I tried to pick up slack and provide more labor at home and take charge of our finances.
所以我试图弥补不足，在家里提供更多劳动力并负责我们的财务。
But I think at the outset, trying to find a plan to be economically relevant in a capitalist society is really important because whether we like to admit it or not, a male from a self-esteem standpoint, from a sexual currency standpoint, from the esteem of the tribe or the society, is going to be disproportionately evaluated based on your economic viability.
但我认为，从一开始，试图找到一个与资本主义社会经济相关的计划确实很重要，因为无论我们是否愿意承认，从自尊的角度、从性货币的角度、从部落或社会的尊重来看，一个男性将根据你的经济生存能力受到不成比例的评估。
So from an early age, try and have a plan.
因此，从小就尝试并制定计划。
You may not have to stick to that plan.
您可能不必遵守该计划。
I'm not saying you got to go to Harvard and go to work at Goldman Sachs, but maybe you're going to go to trade school, learn how to install an energy-efficient HVAC, but you just need a plan to be moving towards something.
我并不是说你必须去哈佛并在高盛工作，但也许你要去贸易学校，学习如何安装节能的暖通空调，但你只需要一个计划来朝着某事迈进。
The second is protector.
第二个是保护者。
If you think about the most masculine jobs, fireman, cop, military, the notion is you develop skills and strengths such that you can protect others.
如果你想想最男性化的工作，消防员、警察、军人，你就会发现你可以培养技能和优势，从而保护他人。
And the most, if you will, manly, masculine, satisfied I ever feel is a night when I feel as if my family feels protected.
如果你愿意的话，我感到最有男子气概、最有男子气概、最满足的是一个我觉得我的家人感到受到保护的夜晚。
The kids are asleep, my partner feels loved and supported, and I've been able to, hopefully through partnership, through economic viability, been able to provide a warm, comfortable life for them so they can focus on the things that are important to them.
孩子们都睡着了，我的伴侣感到被爱和支持，我希望通过合作伙伴关系，通过经济可行性，能够为他们提供温暖、舒适的生活，这样他们就可以专注于对他们来说重要的事情。
And I think unfortunately a lot of men that we should look up to, whether it's the president, I apologize for getting political, or the wealthiest man in the world who are naturally going to be seen as male role models, they seem to have skipped the protection part.
我认为不幸的是，我们应该尊敬的很多男性，无论是总统（我为参与政治而道歉），还是世界上最富有的人，他们自然会被视为男性榜样，他们似乎跳过了保护部分。
That the whole shooting match, the whole reason you make money, that's the means, but the ends is such that you can protect others.
整个射击比赛，你赚钱的全部原因，这就是手段，但目的是你可以保护别人。
I find that's the most rewarding thing in the world.
我发现这是世界上最有价值的事情。
And then finally, procreator.
最后，生育者。
And that is, I think we need to stop demonizing young men's desire for relationships and sexual desires.
也就是说，我认为我们需要停止妖魔化年轻人对人际关系和性欲的渴望。
I think a young man wanting to have sex can be a tremendous motivator to be a better man.
我认为一个想要发生性行为的年轻人可以成为成为一个更好的男人的巨大动力。
It's like fire.
就像火一样。
It can be incredibly destructive, but if you put it in a steel casing with spark plugs, it can create tremendous progress.
它可能具有令人难以置信的破坏性，但如果将其放入带有火花塞的钢制外壳中，它可以创造巨大的进步。
And the story I use is that I was at the Raleigh Hotel in Miami, and I saw a very attractive woman.
我用的故事是，我在迈阿密的罗利酒店，我看到了一位非常有魅力的女人。
And it was the middle of the day, and without the benefit of alcohol, I didn't have the confidence to approach her, but I promised myself I was going to approach her.
当时是中午，没有酒精的帮助，我没有信心接近她，但我向自己保证我会接近她。
And then I went out to get my car from the valet and was sitting under the car, and I'm like, "God, you're such a fucking wimp." So I ran back in, went up to her and said, "Hi, I'm Scott.
然后我出去向代客泊车取车，坐在车底下，我心想：“天哪，你真是个窝囊废。”于是我跑回去，走到她跟前说：“嗨，我是斯科特。
Where are you from?" Anyways, long story short, 18 months later, our son's middle name born was Raleigh.
你是哪里人？”不管怎样，长话短说，18 个月后，我们儿子的中间名出生了，叫罗利 (Raleigh)。
And I didn't look at her, Andrew, and think, "I'd really like lower rates on auto insurance." I looked at her and thought, "I'd really like to have sex with her." And I think young men's desire for relationships and sex, if channeled correctly, makes you want to be a better man.
安德鲁，我没有看着她，然后想：“我真的希望汽车保险费率更低。”我看着她，心想：“我真的很想和她发生性关系。”我认为，年轻人对人际关系和性的渴望，如果引导得当，会让你想成为一个更好的男人。
Have a kindness practice.
进行善意练习。
Demonstrate excellence.
展现卓越。
Shower, for God's sakes.
淋浴，看在上帝的份上。
Work out.
锻炼。
Have a plan.
有一个计划。
Have resilience.
有韧性。
Have perseverance.
有毅力。
Demonstrate excellence.
展现卓越。
So in sum, provider, protector, procreator.
总而言之，提供者、保护者、创造者。
Where I think I missed it in the book, and I'd love your response because I'm open to criticism here, is one, that's what worked for me, and I think a lot of younger people, there's different forms of masculinity that don't necessarily involve being economically secure or finding a mate.
我想我在书中错过了这一点，我希望你能做出回应，因为我愿意接受批评，这是对我有用的，我认为很多年轻人，有不同形式的男子气概，不一定涉及经济安全或寻找伴侣。
And also, the component I've really missed is service.
而且，我真正怀念的部分是服务。
And I think a great one question or proxy for masculinity in terms of what you do every day is are you optimizing for attention or service?
我认为，就你每天所做的事情而言，衡量男性气质的一个重要问题或代表是，你是否在优化注意力或服务？
Right?
正确的？
And then the litmus test that Richard Reeves kind of gave me, who's sort of my Yoda on this stuff, is this notion of surplus value.
然后理查德·里夫斯（Richard Reeves）给我的试金石就是剩余价值的概念，他在这方面有点像我的尤达（Yoda）。
That some men are born males, but they die never having become men.
有些人生来就是男性，但他们死后却从未成为男性。
It's not about a religious ceremony, an age, or some sort of experience or ritual.
这与宗教仪式、时代或某种经历或仪式无关。
It's about at some point, can you honestly look in the mirror and say
大约在某个时刻，你能诚实地看着镜子说
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
I add surplus value.
我添加剩余价值。
I create more tax revenue and jobs than I absorb.
我创造的税收和就业机会比我吸收的还要多。
Everyone absorbs tax revenue if you're in America.
如果你在美国，每个人都会吸收税收。
I listen to more people complain than I complain, right?
我听到的抱怨比我抱怨的还多，对吗？
I love more people than love me.
我爱的人多于爱我的人。
And I didn't get that, I don't think I really became a man well into my 40s because I took a capitalist approach to relationships.
我不明白这一点，我认为我在 40 多岁的时候并没有真正成为一个男人，因为我对人际关系采取了资本主义的态度。
I always wanted more.
我总是想要更多。
I wanted a girlfriend that was better to me than I was to her.
我想要一个对我比我对她更好的女朋友。
I wanted a job where I was getting paid more maybe than I was contributing.
我想要一份报酬可能比我贡献更多的工作。
And then what you realize as you get older is the whole shooting match is to create surplus value, be a better friend, be a better partner.
随着年龄的增长，你会意识到整个射击比赛就是为了创造剩余价值，成为更好的朋友，成为更好的合作伙伴。
There's no way my kids will ever be able to return as much as I've invested in them.
我的孩子们永远不可能得到我在他们身上投资的那么多回报。
The Hallmark Channel and insurance commercials will tell me that I'll have these moments, and I get those.
霍尔马克频道和保险广告会告诉我，我会拥有这些时刻，我明白了。
But my kids are never up at 2:00 a.m.
但我的孩子们从来不会在凌晨 2:00 起床。
worried about me.
担心我。
They just aren't.
他们只是不是。
Right?
正确的？
I would say to them, "You're adding negative value." Just be clear.
我会对他们说，“你正在增加负价值。”只要说清楚。
You go to these amazing schools, all these talented people, negative value.
你就读于这些令人惊叹的学校，所有这些才华横溢的人，都是负价值的。
Me and your mom, we are constantly investing in you.
我和你妈妈，我们一直在为你投资。
This would be impossible for you to pay us back.
这对你来说是不可能偿还给我们的。
What I figured out is that's the whole shooting match, is I'm finally, Andrew, finally at a place of surplus value.
我发现这就是整个射击比赛，安德鲁，我终于到达了一个具有剩余价值的地方。
I apologize for the word salad.
我为沙拉这个词道歉。
Provider, protector, procreator.
提供者、保护者、生育者。
Are you optimizing for service, not attention?
您是在优化服务而不是关注度吗？
And can you really say that you add surplus value?
你真的可以说你增加了剩余价值吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break to acknowledge one of our sponsors, David.
我想稍微休息一下，向我们的赞助商之一大卫表示感谢。
David makes protein bars unlike any other.
大卫制作的蛋白质棒与众不同。
Their newest bar, the Bronze Bar, has 20 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar.
他们最新的 Bronze Bar 含有 20 克蛋白质，仅 150 卡路里，零克糖。
I have to say, these are the best-tasting protein bars I've ever had, and I've tried a lot of protein bars over the years.
我不得不说，这些是我吃过的味道最好的蛋白质棒，这些年来我尝试过很多蛋白质棒。
These new David bars have a marshmallow base, and they're covered in chocolate coating, and they're absolutely incredible.
这些新的大卫巧克力棒有一个棉花糖底座，上面覆盖着巧克力涂层，它们绝对令人难以置信。
I, of course, eat regular whole foods.
当然，我经常吃天然食品。
I eat meat, chicken, fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables, et cetera.
我吃肉、鸡肉、鱼、鸡蛋、水果、蔬菜等等。
But I also make it a point to eat one or two David bars per day as a snack, which makes it easy to hit my protein goal of one gram of protein per pound of body weight.
但我也强调每天吃一两块大卫棒作为零食，这样很容易达到我每磅体重一克蛋白质的蛋白质目标。
And that allows me to take in the protein I need without consuming excess calories.
这使我能够摄入所需的蛋白质，而不会消耗过多的热量。
I love all the David Bronze Bar flavors, including Cookie Dough, Caramel Chocolate, Double Chocolate, Peanut Butter Chocolate.
我喜欢大卫青铜棒的所有口味，包括饼干面团、焦糖巧克力、双重巧克力、花生酱巧克力。
They all actually taste like candy bars.
它们实际上尝起来都像棒棒糖。
Again, they're amazing.
再说一次，他们太棒了。
But again, they have no sugar, and they have 20 grams of protein with just 150 calories.
但同样，它们不含糖，并且含有 20 克蛋白质，只有 150 卡路里热量。
If you'd like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 David，可以访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
Right now, David is offering a deal where if you buy four cartons, you get the fifth carton for free.
现在，大卫正在提供一项优惠，如果您购买四箱，您可以免费获得第五箱。
You can also find David on Amazon or in stores such as Target, Walmart, and Kroger.
您还可以在亚马逊或 Target、沃尔玛和克罗格等商店找到 David。
Again, to get the fifth carton for free, go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
同样，要免费获得第五箱，请访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Wealthfront.
今天的节目也是由 Wealthfront 为我们带来的。
In today's financial landscape of constant market shifts and chaotic news, it's easy to feel uncertain about how to save and invest your money.
在当今市场不断变化、新闻混乱的金融环境中，人们很容易对如何储蓄和投资感到不确定。
Wealthfront is the solution that helps you take control of your money while managing risk.
Wealthfront 是帮助您在管理风险的同时掌控资金的解决方案。
For nearly a decade, I've trusted Wealthfront to navigate this volatility.
近十年来，我一直相信 Wealthfront 能够应对这种波动。
With the Wealthfront cash account, I can earn 3.3% annual percentage yield, or APY, on my cash from program banks.
通过 Wealthfront 现金账户，我可以从计划银行获得 3.3% 的年化收益率 (APY)。
And I know my money is growing until I'm ready to spend it or invest it.
我知道我的钱会不断增长，直到我准备好花钱或投资为止。
One of the features I love about Wealthfront is that I have access to instant, no-fee withdrawals to eligible accounts 24/7.
我喜欢 Wealthfront 的功能之一是我可以 24/7 即时、免费提款到符合条件的账户。
That means I can move my money where I need it without waiting.
这意味着我可以将资金转移到需要的地方，而无需等待。
And when I'm ready to transition from saving to investing, Wealthfront lets me seamlessly transfer my funds into one of their expert-built portfolios.
当我准备好从储蓄过渡到投资时，Wealthfront 可以让我无缝地将资金转移到他们专家构建的投资组合之一。
For a limited time, Wealthfront is offering the Huberman Lab audience an exclusive 0.75% APY boost over the base rate for three months.
在有限的时间内，Wealthfront 为 Huberman Lab 受众提供三个月内比基本费率独家 0.75% 的年化年利率提升。
Meaning you can get up to 4.05% variable APY on up to $150,000 in deposits.
这意味着您最多可获得 150,000 美元的存款，获得高达 4.05% 的可变年利率。
Over one million people already trust Wealthfront to save more, earn more, and build long-term wealth with confidence.
超过一百万人已经相信 Wealthfront 能够充满信心地储蓄更多、赚取更多并建立长期财富。
If you'd like to try Wealthfront, you can go to wealthfront.com/huberman to receive the boost offer and start earning 4.05% variable APY today.
如果您想尝试Wealthfront，您可以访问wealthfront.com/huberman 获取提升优惠，并立即开始赚取4.05% 的可变年利率。
That's wealthfront.com/huberman to get started.
请从 Fortunefront.com/huberman 开始。
This is a paid testimonial of Wealthfront.
这是 Wealthfront 的付费推荐。
Client experiences will vary.
客户体验会有所不同。
Wealthfront brokerage is not a bank.
Wealthfront 经纪公司不是银行。
The base APY is as of January 30th, 2026, and subject to change.
基本 APY 截至 2026 年 1 月 30 日，可能会发生变化。
For more information, please see the episode description.
欲了解更多信息，请参阅剧集描述。
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
I love all that.
我喜欢这一切。
I don't have anything to add.
我没有什么要补充的。
I do have two questions and one reflection.
我确实有两个问题和一个反思。
The reflection is that what you started with, that every day you're making decisions all day long, and you want more of those to be good decisions than bad decisions relative to your peers.
反思是，你一开始就知道，你每天都在做出决定，并且相对于你的同事，你希望这些决定更多是好的决定，而不是坏的决定。
I think that's a terrific way to think about striving, and I've never heard it posed that way, so I really just want to bold, underline, and highlight that for everyone.
我认为这是思考奋斗的绝佳方式，而且我从未听说过这样的说法，所以我真的只想向每个人大胆、强调和强调这一点。
For the eighth-grader, for the 12th-grader, for the college junior, the 40-year-old man, make better decisions than the average around you.
对于八年级学生、十二年级学生、大学三年级学生、四十岁的男人来说，比周围的平均人做出更好的决定。
The problem I have, I guess I do have one caveat here is that most people won't remember this, but that show "Jerry Springer," I think was so popular because people like to focus on all the people doing worse than them because it makes it easy to stay right where you're at.
我遇到的问题是，我想我确实有一个警告是，大多数人不会记得这一点，但我认为《杰里·斯普林格》那个节目非常受欢迎，因为人们喜欢关注所有比他们做得更差的人，因为它让你很容易呆在原地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
So who are the comparison points that one can keep in mind as they strive to make these better decisions each day?
那么，当人们每天努力做出更好的决定时，可以记住哪些比较点呢？
Because I think that first statement you made is touching into some serious wisdom.
因为我认为你的第一句话触及了一些严肃的智慧。
So who is the comparison point, and how do you keep that framed?
那么谁是比较点，你如何保持这一框架呢？
Because you study markets, you understand markets.
因为你研究市场，所以你了解市场。
What's the market comparison point in this make more better decisions than worse ones relative to the average as you progress through your day?
随着一天的进展，相对于平均水平，做出更多更好的决策而不是做出更差的决策，市场比较点是多少？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it's really important to, you're talking a little bit about role models and references.
我认为这非常重要，你谈论了一些关于榜样和参考的内容。
And so first off, one myth I think we need to dispel is that success equals exploitation.
首先，我认为我们需要消除的一个神话是成功等于剥削。
There's a very unhealthy zeitgeist, especially from the far left, that anyone who's very successful is exploiting others
有一种非常不健康的时代精神，尤其是来自极左派，认为任何非常成功的人都在剥削他人
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
And I think we need to puncture that narrative and say you should strive to be successful.
我认为我们需要打破这种说法，并说你应该努力取得成功。
And success might mean certain things for other people.
成功对其他人来说可能意味着某些事情。
I didn't grow up with money, so for me, success for most of my life was trying to get economic security.
我并不是在金钱的陪伴下长大的，所以对我来说，我一生中大部分时间的成功就是试图获得经济保障。
Anxiety plagued my mom and I, economic anxiety, and it was like a ghost following us around telling us we weren't worthy.
焦虑困扰着我和妈妈，经济焦虑，就像一个幽灵跟着我们，告诉我们我们不值得。
So my role models were always people who'd figured out economic success.
所以我的榜样总是那些在经济上取得成功的人。
And people have to pick their own role models.
人们必须选择自己的榜样。
I always thought masculinity was getting back in someone's face who didn't give me the respect I thought I deserved.
我一直认为男子气概是回到那些没有给予我我认为应得的尊重的人的脸上。
I was that asshole that when someone cut me off in traffic, felt like I needed to speed up and cut them off.
我就是那个混蛋，当有人在交通中挡住我的路时，我觉得我需要加速并挡住他们。
That if the Delta ticket counter representative wasn't kind to me or was busy, I would get back in their face.
如果达美航空售票柜台代表对我不友善或者很忙，我就会当着他们的面报复。
It's like, "Well, do you realize I'm a 1K member?" And then, a decent reference point is just men you admire, and they're everywhere, that perhaps can take blows.
就像，“好吧，你知道我是 1K 会员吗？”然后，一个不错的参考点就是你钦佩的男人，他们无处不在，也许会受到打击。
They realize someone might be having a bad day.
他们意识到某人可能今天过得很糟糕。
But you said something that inspired a thought and that what I just outlined is pretty meta.
但你说了一些启发了我的想法，我刚才概述的内容非常元。
Kind of themes that sometimes aren't that actionable.
这类主题有时并不那么可行。
So I just want to bring it down one level.
所以我只想把它降低一级。
As we were talking about off mic, I try and mentor two or three young men at any given time.
当我们谈论麦克风时，我尝试在任何特定时间指导两到三个年轻人。
And these are young men that quite frankly need mentoring.
坦率地说，这些年轻人需要指导。
They're struggling.
他们正在挣扎。
Most of them might be still living at home.
他们中的大多数人可能还住在家里。
These aren't people who went to Brown and are working at Goldman Sachs.
这些人并不是在布朗大学就读并在高盛工作的人。
And so just some more tactical things that I think serve as a reference point for how you succeed or how you make progress.
因此，我认为一些更具战术性的事情可以作为你如何成功或如何取得进步的参考点。
The first thing I do, the first hack is I say, "Unlock your phone," and I'm going to look at it.
我做的第一件事，第一个黑客就是我说，“解锁你的手机”，然后我要看看它。
And there's a little bit of nervousness.
还有一点点紧张。
So what I do to loosen them up or lubricate it is I say, "Okay, let me tell you two things." First is I gamble.
因此，为了放松或润滑它们，我会说：“好吧，让我告诉你两件事。”首先是我赌博。
I don't gamble on FanDuel.
我不会在 FanDuel 上赌博。
I gamble with options.
我用选择来赌博。
I know it's stupid.
我知道这很愚蠢。
I know I'm going to lose money over the long term.
我知道从长远来看我会赔钱。
I'm a smart guy.
我是一个聪明人。
I love markets.
我喜欢市场。
But that dopamine hit I get is too seductive.
但我感受到的多巴胺太诱人了。
So I sell calls and puts.
所以我卖出看涨期权和看跌期权。
I consume porn.
我消费色情片。
That's an embarrassing thing to say at 61, but yeah, I still consume porn.
61 岁了，说这样的话有点尴尬，但是，是的，我仍然看色情片。
But I tell them that, and it lubricates or it makes them more comfortable.
但我告诉他们这一点，这可以润滑或者让他们更舒服。
I open their phone.
我打开他们的手机。
Everyone has an advantage.
每个人都有优势。
Most young men who are not excelling, if you will, by traditional Western capitalist standards, their advantage is capital, specifically their human capital.
如果你愿意的话，按照传统的西方资本主义标准，大多数不优秀的年轻人，他们的优势是资本，特别是人力资本。
They have time.
他们有时间。
And within about five to seven minutes, I can find eight hours of time from TikTok, from X, from porn, from gambling sites, from YouTube.
在大约五到七分钟内，我可以从 TikTok、X、色情、赌博网站、YouTube 找到八个小时的时间。
I'm like, "We're going to find eight hours.
我想，“我们要找到八个小时。
You tell me where we're going to reduce this eight hours.
你告诉我我们要在哪里减少这八个小时。
And next week I'm going to check, and we're going to reallocate that capital into three things." The first is we're going to get really fucking strong.
下周我将进行检查，我们将把资金重新分配到三件事上。”首先，我们要变得非常强大。
I just think the best antidepressant is moving weights, building some bulk, or running far.
我只是认为最好的抗抑郁药是举重、增肌或长距离跑步。
I've jokingly said every man under the age of 30 should aspire to be able to walk into any room and know if shit got real, they could kill and eat everybody or outrun them.
我开玩笑地说，每个 30 岁以下的男人都应该渴望能够走进任何一个房间，并知道如果事情是真的，他们可以杀死并吃掉所有人，或者超越他们。
There's different forms of fitness.
健身有不同的形式。
You can be fast, you can be flexible, you can be strong.
你可以很快，你可以灵活，你可以坚强。
But there's no excuse.
但没有任何借口。
The male form is blessed with more bone density, double twitch muscle, all the things you talk about, this incredible substance that pours over it called testosterone.
男性形态拥有更高的骨密度、双抽动肌肉，所有你谈论的东西，这种令人难以置信的物质，称为睾丸激素。
You're going to look back when you're my age and think, "Why wasn't I just fast, sleek, a monster, just strong?" So we're going to work out at least three times a week.
当你到了我这个年纪的时候，你会回想起来，“为什么我不是又快又漂亮，像怪物一样强壮呢？”所以我们每周至少锻炼三次。
The second thing is we got to make some money, and I want you to make money outside your house.
第二件事是我们必须赚钱，我希望你在屋外赚钱。
I don't care if you're a Lyft driver, TaskRabbit, or Panera's hiring people at 18 bucks an hour, and only one out of 10 that accept a job actually show up the first day.
我不在乎你是 Lyft 司机、TaskRabbit 还是 Panera 以每小时 18 美元的价格雇用员工，而接受工作的人中只有十分之一实际上会在第一天出现。
So if you really make the effort, you can make decent money.
所以只要你真的努力，你就能赚到可观的钱。
And the great thing about getting a taste for the flesh of money is you start learning how to make more money.
尝到金钱的滋味的好处是你开始学习如何赚更多的钱。
If you want to make a lot of money, unless you're smart enough to be born to rich parents, start off by making a little bit of money, and you'll start to figure out capitalism.
如果你想赚很多钱，除非你足够聪明，出生在富有的父母，否则从赚一点钱开始，你就会开始了解资本主义。
Right?
正确的？
And the final thing is, at least three times a month, we're going to put ourselves in a group setting where we are trying to achieve something great in the agency of others, a nonprofit, a church group, a sports league, a writing club.
最后一件事是，每个月至少三次，我们将把自己置于一个团体环境中，我们试图在其他机构、非营利组织、教会团体、体育联盟、写作俱乐部的机构中取得伟大的成就。
And then the second phase of that is we're going to do something what I call is the approach.
然后第二阶段是我们要做一些我称之为方法的事情。
"Hey man, do you want to go watch the Jets game?" Right?
“嘿伙计，你想去看喷气机队的比赛吗？”正确的？
An expression of friendship.
一种友谊的表达。
And then if you're really comfortable, an expression of romantic interest while making them feel safe.
然后，如果你真的感到舒服，可以表达浪漫的兴趣，同时让他们感到安全。
"Would you like to grab a coffee sometime?" And this is the goal.
“你想找个时间喝杯咖啡吗？”这就是目标。
The goal is no, because you're going to get nos.
目标是“不”，因为你会得到“不”。
And then I'm going to call you after you've made the approach.
当你接近之后我会打电话给你。
You're going to text me, "I did an approach." Did you get a no?
你要给我发短信，“我采取了一种方法。”你收到否了吗？
"Yeah, I got a no." That's exactly the point.
“是的，我得到了拒绝。”这正是重点。
That's the goal.
这就是目标。
Because everyone you admire, everyone you think has killed it, the only thing I can guarantee you is there were a shit ton of nos in getting to one of the top 10 podcasts in the world, getting to a person as a partner who's higher character and hotter than you, getting to make more money than you would have ever guessed that person would have made.
因为你钦佩的每个人，你认为的每个人都杀死了它，我唯一可以向你保证的是，要进入世界十大播客之一，要找到一个比你品格更高、更性感的人作为合作伙伴，要赚到比你想象的更多的钱，这个人会赚到更多的钱。
The only thing that got them there was the willingness and the endurance to anticipate no. And unfortunately, big tech is setting up an algorithm that convinces you that a frictionless life is a good life and that you never need to endure no. And what you end up with is a lack of skills to persevere, to realize you're okay.
唯一让他们做到这一点的是愿意和忍耐去预见不会。不幸的是，大型科技公司正在建立一种算法，让你相信无摩擦的生活就是美好的生活，你永远不需要忍受“不”。而你最终得到的结果是缺乏坚持下去的技能，无法意识到自己没事。
And that's what I ask the kids the next day.
这就是我第二天问孩子们的问题。
"Are you okay?" "Yeah, I'm bummed out." But you're okay.
“你还好吗？” “是啊，我很沮丧。”但你没事。
If a man under the age of 30 works out three times a week, works 30 hours a week outside of the house, right, and is volunteering, that immediately puts him in the top 8% of all young men.
如果一个 30 岁以下的男性每周锻炼 3 次，每周在屋外工作 30 小时（对），并且做志愿者，那么他立即跻身所有年轻人的前 8% 之列。
And I apologize for the word salad here, but something I hate is the incel movement.
我为这里的“沙拉”这个词表示歉意，但我讨厌的是非自愿独身运动。
Involuntarily celibate.
不由自主地独身。
Right?
正确的？
Throughout history, 99% of men have been involuntarily celibate for most of their lives.
纵观历史，99%的男性一生中的大部分时间都是非自愿的独身。
There's few things young men would rather be doing than having sex.
没有什么事情是年轻人比做爱更愿意做的。
Only 40% of men have reproduced throughout history, 80% of women.
历史上只有 40% 的男性生育过后代，而女性则为 80%。
So no man has a birthright to reproduce.
因此，没有人有与生俱来的繁衍权利。
In the West, it's actually now 75%.
在西方，现在实际上是 75%。
So young men have more agency than they ever have.
因此，年轻人比以往任何时候都拥有更多的代理权。
Now, if you do those things, right Just those three things, work outside of the house, work out, have a kindness practice, volunteer in the service of others, you're immediately going to put yourself in the top decile of young men.
现在，如果你做了这些事情，对吧，就这三件事，在屋外工作，锻炼身体，进行善行，自愿为他人服务，你就会立即将自己置于年轻人的前十分之一之列。
And if you're in the top decile of young men, I can guarantee you, over time, you will become voluntarily incelibate, which is awesome, because you'll establish a relationship.
如果你是最优秀的年轻人，我可以向你保证，随着时间的推移，你会自愿独身，这太棒了，因为你会建立一种关系。
And young men under the age of 30, a lot of the research shows, benefit more from a relationship than women, yet only one in three men under the age of 30 is in a relationship, whereas two in three women are in a relationship.
许多研究表明，30 岁以下的年轻男性比女性从恋爱关系中受益更多，但 30 岁以下的男性中只有三分之一处于恋爱关系中，而女性中有三分之二处于恋爱关系中。
And you think, "Well, Scott, that's mathematically impossible." It's not, because women are dating older because they want more economically and emotionally viable men.
你会想，“好吧，斯科特，这在数学上是不可能的。”事实并非如此，因为女性约会年龄更大的人是因为她们想要在经济上和情感上更有活力的男性。
So I'll circle back to the more tactical recommendations.
因此，我将回到更具战术性的建议。
Get fit, start making some money, have a plan, and start doing things in the agency of others.
健身，开始赚钱，制定计划，并开始在别人的代理下做事。
I think the ultimate hack for depression, or if you're feeling bad about yourself, is to start helping others and to always keep in mind, and this is the hard part, that the Antichrist of your progress as a young man, the devil, the fucking enemy, the villain here, the Bond villain with trillions of dollars is big tech.
我认为治疗抑郁症的终极方法，或者如果你对自己感觉不好，就是开始帮助别人，并始终牢记，这是最困难的部分，作为一个年轻人，你进步的反基督者，魔鬼，该死的敌人，这里的恶棍，拥有数万亿美元的邦德恶棍是大型科技。
They are trying to figure out with AI, a million times a second, how to convince you to spend one more second a day on your phone sequestered from your relationships, because they're a shareholder value.
他们试图用人工智能每秒一百万次来弄清楚如何说服你每天多花一秒钟在手机上，远离你的人际关系，因为它们是股东价值。
40% of the S&P is 10 companies whose sole mission is to monetize your time.
标准普尔 40% 的股票是 10 家公司，它们的唯一使命就是将您的时间货币化。
And unfortunately, they're not bad people, but what they're doing has resulted in a small group, a cohort of men, it's not small, millions of men who are evolving into a new species of asocial, asexual males who wake up at the age of 30 thinking they've had a frictionless life, living at home, obese, anxious and depressed, having never developed the skills that they need to do well professionally, personally.
不幸的是，他们不是坏人，但他们所做的事情导致了一小群人，一群男人，这并不小，数以百万计的男人正在进化成一种新的不合群、无性的男性，他们在30岁时醒来，认为自己过着无摩擦的生活，住在家里，肥胖、焦虑和抑郁，从未发展出他们在职业和个人方面表现出色所需的技能。
So big tech is not your friend.
所以大型科技公司不是你的朋友。
If you do not figure out how to modulate big tech products, whether it's Instagram or YouTube, you are falling into a trap of eventually being sequestered and not developing the skills to establish the most important thing in life, and that is relationships.
如果你不知道如何调整大型科技产品，无论是 Instagram 还是 YouTube，你就会陷入最终被孤立的陷阱，而无法培养建立生活中最重要的事情的技能，那就是人际关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Two questions about big tech, and I'll just push back a little bit-
关于大型科技的两个问题，我会稍微反驳一下-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
on the big tech thing, not because I'm afraid of big tech.
关于大型科技的事情，并不是因为我害怕大型科技。
I did grow up in Silicon Valley, so I-
我确实在硅谷长大，所以我-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Well, and you're at Stanford
好吧，你在斯坦福大学
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
yeah, invariably have a different relationship to it.
是的，总是有不同的关系。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm not name-dropping.
我并不是在指名道姓。
I happen to be close with some of the people that run these companies or are in number two or number four slots or, in some cases, who run the companies.
我碰巧与这些公司的一些经营者关系密切，或者是第二或第四位的人，或者在某些情况下，与这些公司的经营者关系密切。
One who I've never met, who I'll just raise first, is who you referred to earlier, the richest man in the world is Elon Musk.
我从未见过，我先提一下，就是你刚才提到的，世界上最富有的人是埃隆·马斯克。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I was frankly a little bit surprised that you called him out when discussing the importance of being a protector.
坦率地说，我对你在讨论成为保护者的重要性时把他叫出来感到有点惊讶。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I understand the political side.
我了解政治方面。
Well, let's just-
好吧，让我们——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for the moment, we'll just set Trump aside.
目前，我们将特朗普放在一边。
Very polarizing figure.
非常两极分化的人物。
Happy to go there if you want, but I know your stance on him.
如果你愿意的话我很乐意去那里，但我知道你对他的立场。
But the mention of Elon as a non-protector surprised me-
但提到埃隆作为非保护者让我感到惊讶——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because I think of Elon as somebody who seems to love his children very much.
因为我认为埃隆似乎非常爱他的孩子。
He's organized family differently than most-
他组织家庭的方式与大多数人不同——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but he certainly has the capacity to take care of them, who is committed to big projects.
但他当然有能力照顾他们，他们致力于大项目。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, a superhuman level of output in terms of just Neuralink, the field that I'm closest to.
我的意思是，仅就 Neuralink 而言，就达到了超人水平的输出，这是我最接近的领域。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Phenomenal progress, and that's just one of the SpaceX, Neuralink, Tesla, X, et cetera.
惊人的进步，而这只是 SpaceX、Neuralink、Tesla、X 等公司之一。
So I'm just curious what motivated that-
所以我只是好奇是什么动机-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that makes you because I don't see him as a non-protector.
这就是你，因为我不认为他是一个非保护者。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know that I see him as a protector of a particular kind in his personal life, but I don't have access to that.
我不知道我是否将他视为他个人生活中某种特定类型的保护者，但我无权接触到这一点。
But in terms of his motivation to protect our species-
但就他保护我们物种的动机而言——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I personally believe his desire to get to Mars is a genuine one-
我个人相信他想去火星的愿望是真诚的——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to have an option for humanity.
为人类提供一个选择。
So I see him as a protector, and I'll probably piss off a lot of people by saying this, but that doesn't mean I universally adopt everything he says and does.
所以我把他视为一个保护者，我这样说可能会激怒很多人，但这并不意味着我普遍采用他所说和所做的一切。
But I see him as kind of an awesome figure in our history who's like, "Let's get to Mars in case this Earth thing doesn't work out." And also, "Let's get to Mars because it's awesome."
但我认为他是我们历史上一位了不起的人物，他会说：“我们去火星吧，以防地球上的事情行不通。”而且，“让我们去火星吧，因为它太棒了。”
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I think that's an entirely fair viewpoint, and you're adding nuance to it.
我认为这是一个完全公平的观点，而你正在为其添加细微差别。
So let's talk about Elon Musk.
那么我们来谈谈埃隆·马斯克。
If I had a red button that I could push and get rid of all of big tech or Elon Musk, somehow he could float away like a Gabriel Garcia Marquez character and not die, but just not have happened, I wouldn't press the button.
如果我有一个红色按钮，我可以按下它并摆脱所有大型科技或埃隆·马斯克，不知何故，他可以像加布里埃尔·加西亚·马尔克斯的角色一样漂浮而不会死，但只是没有发生，我不会按下按钮。
I think big tech and Elon Musk are net goods for the world.
我认为大型科技公司和埃隆·马斯克对世界来说是净货。
We're going to get to EVs, we're going to get to Mars faster because of Elon Musk.
由于埃隆·马斯克，我们将获得电动汽车，我们将更快到达火星。
He inspired the EV race, which is good for the world.
他激发了电动汽车竞赛的灵感，这对世界有好处。
The problem is with the word net, and as it relates to masculinity and as a role model for young men, he's probably one of the best role models in terms of being super aggressive, taking risks, ignoring the noise, and just being laser-like focus, telling an amazing story, garnering capital.
问题出在“网络”这个词上，因为它与男性气质有关，而且作为年轻人的榜样，他可能是最好的榜样之一，因为他具有超强的攻击性、敢于冒险、忽视噪音、激光般的专注、讲述一个令人惊叹的故事、获得资本。
I mean, there's just no getting around it.
我的意思是，这是无法回避的。
The guy's just an inspiration.
这家伙只是一个灵感。
I think the whole shooting match is if you become the richest man in the world, I think you move to protection.
我认为整个射击比赛是如果你成为世界首富，我认为你会转向保护。
I would argue that he's not a great role model and that he has not done a great job of convincing younger men that protection and taking care of others, I think the way he acquits himself online by punching down.
我认为他不是一个伟大的榜样，他没有很好地说服年轻人保护和照顾他人，我认为他在网上通过打击来证明自己无罪。
When he says something mean about somebody, and I know this and I'm fine because I have money and I'm not dependent upon any one person's opinion of me, but if he says something negative about you and calls you names, his 120 million followers come for you.
当他说某人的坏话时，我知道这一点，我很好，因为我有钱，而且我不依赖任何人对我的看法，但如果他说你的坏话并辱骂你，他的 1.2 亿粉丝就会来找你。
And I think as a general rule, and this is true for everybody, but especially for men, you never punch down.
我认为作为一般规则，这对每个人来说都是如此，但特别是对于男性来说，你永远不会打倒。
You just don't.
你只是不这样做。
I'm openly, I make personal attacks on people.
我公开地对人进行人身攻击。
This is technically a personal attack on Elon Musk.
从技术上讲，这是对埃隆·马斯克的人身攻击。
To call someone not a good role model, that's a personal attack.
称某人不是好榜样，这是人身攻击。
But I never make personal attacks of anyone who isn't Markedly more powerful than me.
但我绝不会人身攻击那些不明显比我强大的人。
And I find that a lot of these people, Donald Trump and Elon Musk, have no problem punching down.
我发现这些人中的很多人，比如唐纳德·特朗普和埃隆·马斯克，都可以毫无问题地进行打击。
So again, it goes back to this.
那么，又回到了这一点。
Is he a net good for the world?
他对世界有好处吗？
I acknowledge the point, and I would even argue, yeah, he is.
我承认这一点，我什至会争辩说，是的，他是。
He should also be held accountable for his blessings.
他也应该为他的祝福负责。
I can't stand the fact that he shitposts America and the government.
我无法忍受他对美国和政府的胡言乱语。
If you look at the most successful companies in the world, they're littered up and down the coast we're on right now, whether it's Qualcomm in San Diego, SpaceX and Snap here, head north to Salesforce and Meta and Google.
如果你看看世界上最成功的公司，它们就遍布在我们现在所处的海岸线，无论是圣地亚哥的高通公司、这里的 SpaceX 和 Snap，还是向北的 Salesforce、Meta 和 Google。
Keep going, you hit Amazon and Microsoft, and then it stops once you get to the Canadian border.
继续前进，你会碰到亚马逊和微软，然后一旦到达加拿大边境，它就会停止。
And then you have to go all the way up to Lululemon to find a multibillion-dollar company.
然后你必须一路走到 Lululemon 才能找到一家价值数十亿美元的公司。
Come back down to where you teach at UC San Diego and those great companies, and it stops, and you got to go to another 7,000 kilometers to get to Mercado Libre in Buenos Aires.
回到你在加州大学圣地亚哥分校和那些伟大公司任教的地方，然后它就停下来了，你必须再行驶 7,000 公里才能到达布宜诺斯艾利斯的自由市场 (Mercado Libre)。
There's something about America that creates unbelievable opportunity, that creates the wealthiest men in the world.
美国有一些东西可以创造令人难以置信的机会，创造出世界上最富有的人。
And I find that these tech brothers have a total lack of appreciation for the sacrifices and the system built in America, and are the first to shitpost the government and complain about regulation and things getting in the way.
我发现这些科技兄弟完全不欣赏美国的牺牲和建立的系统，并且是第一个向政府发牢骚并抱怨监管和阻碍的事情的人。
I find that especially obnoxious.
我觉得这特别令人讨厌。
But let me acknowledge the point.
但让我承认这一点。
I think on the whole, Elon Musk and big tech are a net good for the world, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold them accountable and ask, "Why would you do these things when you're so blessed?"
我认为总的来说，埃隆·马斯克和大型科技公司对世界来说是净利，但这并不意味着我们不应该追究他们的责任，并问：“当你如此幸运时，你为什么要做这些事情？”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So this gets to the heart of something that I think is extremely important, which is we're living in the age of everything pretty much being public about public figures.
因此，这触及了我认为极其重要的核心问题，那就是我们生活在一个几乎所有关于公众人物的事情都公开的时代。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not everything, but-
不是一切，但是——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
A lot
很多
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
many more facets of their lives than ever before in history, in part because they share many more facets of their lives.
他们生活中的方方面面比历史上任何时候都多，部分原因是他们有更多共同的生活方方面面。
It's not just that stuff gets unearthed.
这不仅仅是东西被挖掘出来的问题。
It's like they're talking about their company.
就像他们在谈论他们的公司一样。
They're also in the role of arguing with their ex sometimes online.
有时他们还会在网上与前任争吵。
You see that.
你看到了。
Their kids sometimes will be a parent who they are.
他们的孩子有时会成为他们自己的父母。
It's interesting, my dad, a first-generation immigrant who came here, became a scientist, and he's from Argentina, and along these lines, he always said it was funny to him that when you would go to somebody's office in the United States, a professor or a businessman-
有趣的是，我的父亲是第一代移民，来到这里，成为一名科学家，他来自阿根廷，沿着这些思路，他总是说，当你去美国某人的办公室时，一位教授或一位商人，这对他来说很有趣-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or something, the picture of his family was facing out.
或者别的什么，他家人的照片朝外。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He said that was so weird.
他说这太奇怪了。
He said in Argentina, your picture of your wife and your kids-
他在阿根廷说，你的妻子和孩子的照片——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah, look out
是啊，小心点
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and your dog was facing in.
而你的狗面朝内。
That's yours.
那是你的。
You don't share-
你不分享-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that with a person coming to your office.
有人来到你的办公室。
Who would do that?
谁会这么做？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This oversharing thing, when you look back, is a longstanding theme in American business, and it shows up even more so, of course, online.
当你回顾过去时，这种过度分享的现象是美国商界的一个长期主题，当然，在网上更是如此。
So to me, this idea of, okay, Elon, for instance, but very different role model figure, someone that I consider a close friend, Jocko Willink.
所以对我来说，这个想法是，好吧，例如埃隆，但非常不同的榜样人物，我认为是密友的乔科·威林克。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Incredibly impressive, true warrior.
令人难以置信的真正的战士。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great dad, great husband.
伟大的父亲，伟大的丈夫。
I know his family.
我认识他的家人。
Amazing human being in so many ways, and he's kind of like the tough football coach that a lot of guys didn't have at younger ages.
他在很多方面都是一个了不起的人，他有点像很多人年轻时所没有的强硬的足球教练。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think that's one of the reasons people gravitate towards him.
我认为这是人们被他吸引的原因之一。
You don't wonder whether or not he really can do what he says you ought to do because he does it every day-
你不会怀疑他是否真的能做到他说你应该做的事情，因为他每天都这样做——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and he posts it on his watch.
他把它贴在手表上。
So Jocko's a really good example of somebody that people admire, and I consider Jocko one example.
因此，乔科是人们钦佩的一个很好的例子，我认为乔科就是一个例子。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So why not look at public figures-
那么为什么不看看公众人物呢——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you and perhaps even me, for instance, and just look at these people as a buffet of options to adopt certain traits but not others.
例如，你，也许甚至是我，只是将这些人视为采用某些特征而不是其他特征的自助餐。
Be doing great things, and assuming that the other things they're doing aren't truly atrocious, right?
做伟大的事情，并假设他们正在做的其他事情并不是真正残暴，对吧？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, criminal, atrocious.
我的意思是，犯罪，残暴。
I don't know that we're asking the people who are role models, leaders, business leaders, I don't think we're placing a reasonable expectation on them.
我不知道我们是否在询问那些榜样、领导者、商业领袖，我认为我们没有对他们提出合理的期望。
I don't say this for any personal reasons.
我这么说并不是出于任何个人原因。
I've known I'm replete with flaws for the very long time.
我很长时间以来都知道自己充满了缺陷。
So I don't claim to not have them, never have.
所以我并不声称没有它们，从来没有。
But then young guys might be thinking, "Well, I have to be perfect, too.
但年轻人可能会想，“好吧，我也必须完美。
And if I'm not perfect and I don't have 150 million followers, I better have a fraternity of people to protect me." This is the kind of underlying current that I think has driven the toxic end of the, hate the word, the manosphere.
如果我不完美，也没有 1.5 亿粉丝，我最好有一群人来保护我。”我认为，正是这种潜在的电流驱动了“讨厌这个词”“马诺圈”的有毒结局。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I hate it because it's become too mishmashy.
我讨厌它，因为它变得太杂乱了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's not even a continuum.
它甚至不是一个连续体。
It's just a mess.
这只是一团糟。
So what do you have to say and think about the expectation that the leaders of the world, the role models, not have these flaws?
那么，对于世界领导人、榜样不存在这些缺陷的期望，您有什么想说和思考的呢？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
At the same time telling guys, "Hey, ask and get told no."
同时告诉大家，“嘿，问一下，然后被告知不行。”
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You and I both know, I don't know if it's real-world data or if it's statistical data, but I have many women friends in my life, and I have a sister.
你我都知道，我不知道这是真实数据还是统计数据，但我一生中有很多女性朋友，我还有一个妹妹。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If an attractive guy rolls up on a woman and says, "Hey, you want to get coffee sometime?"
如果一个有魅力的男人对一个女人说：“嘿，你想找个时间喝杯咖啡吗？”
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
It's romantic.
很浪漫。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's romantic.
很浪漫。
If a guy that's not attractive does that-
如果一个没有魅力的男人这样做——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
It's creepy.
真是令人毛骨悚然。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it's creepy.
太可怕了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So how do you tell a guy that isn't good-looking-
那么如何告诉一个长得不好看的人——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to do that and then not be called a creep?
这样做然后就不会被称为蠕虫？
And not just be called a creep, but be called a creep on an app, which isn't just designed to prevent sexual assault, but is also designed to share information about who to date and not to date.
不仅仅是被称为“蠕变者”，而是在应用程序上被称为“蠕变者”，该应用程序不仅旨在防止性侵犯，而且还旨在分享有关与谁约会和不与谁约会的信息。
I'm told by young guys, I'm not on dating apps, but that guys get blacklisted, basically.
年轻人告诉我，我不使用约会应用程序，但基本上这些人都会被列入黑名单。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not because of sexual assault, but because they get called out as a bad kisser, he didn't smell so good or something.
不是因为性侵犯，而是因为他们被称为接吻不好，他闻起来不太好或者什么的。
This is the stuff that used to be in private discussions among women.
这是过去女性之间私下讨论的话题。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I know this because I have a sister, right?
我知道这一点是因为我有一个妹妹，对吗？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Women talk.
女人说话。
I listen through the wall, right?
我隔着墙听，对吗？
I know what they talk about.
我知道他们在说什么。
And now it's public.
现在它是公开的。
There's parallel construction here.
这里有并行构造。
I'm sure you're tracking it.
我确信你正在追踪它。
But for everyone listening, it's like this is a serious problem.
但对于每个听的人来说，这似乎是一个严重的问题。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Can't we acknowledge that somebody like Elon, let's just stay on that example, is a phenom that probably has never existed in at least 100 years-
难道我们不能承认像埃隆这样的人，让我们继续举这个例子，是一个可能至少在 100 年内从未存在过的天才吗？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
has huge vision.
有远大的愿景。
Sure, he might have some issues in his life that are none of my business, and yet he has a lot of good example to set for young men.
当然，他生活中可能会遇到一些与我无关的问题，但他为年轻人树立了很多好榜样。
I believe that.
我相信这一点。
And it also gives permission to not be perfect without harming people.
它还允许在不伤害他人的情况下不完美。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
So acknowledge the point, and there's a lot there.
所以承认这一点，里面有很多东西。
But I still think if someone is constantly optimizing for attention to draw cheap capital to his firms and is very open and very critical of others, and is probably the most dominant force in electing the next president, that we should pay very close attention to his activities, whether it's reported addiction to ketamine and sleeping with a loaded gun next to his bed and not living with any of his children, whether it's-
但我仍然认为，如果有人不断优化注意力以吸引廉价资本进入他的公司，并且非常开放，对他人非常挑剔，并且可能是选举下一任总统的最主要力量，那么我们应该非常密切地关注他的活动，无论是否有报道称他对氯胺酮成瘾，是否在床边带着上膛的枪睡觉，是否与他的任何孩子住在一起，无论是-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You think that should be public fair game?
你认为这应该是公共公平游戏吗？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I think if he wants to put certain aspects of his life out there constantly for affirmation, that that type of scrutiny is probably fair game.
我认为，如果他想不断地把他生活中的某些方面放在外面寻求肯定，那么这种类型的审查可能是公平的游戏。
I also acknowledge the point that people are human, and you need to have some grace and say, "Well, unless you're perfect, try and learn from people, try and understand them, and try and demonstrate some grace." The other thing, going back to big tech, is that we have connected economic value to tearing down people.
我也承认人都是人，你需要有一些优雅，然后说：“好吧，除非你是完美的，否则请尝试向人们学习，尝试理解他们，并尝试表现出一些优雅。”另一件事，回到大型科技公司，我们已经将经济价值与拆台联系起来。
So you've had bestsellers.
所以你已经有了畅销书。
I've had bestsellers.
我有过畅销书。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
My book hasn't come out yet.
我的书还没有出版。
I hope for it to be a bestseller.
我希望它能成为畅销书。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Do you have a book out?
你出书了吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, it comes out in September.
不，九月份就出来了。
It's been delayed for a while, but I appreciate the-
虽然推迟了一段时间，但我很感激——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I feel like I've already read it.
我感觉我已经读过了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. Well, God willing, it does well.
不，好吧，上帝保佑，效果很好。
If it doesn't, it doesn't.
如果没有，那就没有。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Let me prepare, because I don't know you well, but I do know you.
让我做好准备，因为我不太了解你，但我确实了解你。
I get the sense that, like me, a lot of the criticism doesn't just bounce right off you, that you take this stuff to heart, and sometimes it upsets you.
我有一种感觉，像我一样，很多批评并不只是从你身上反弹过来，你把这些事情记在心里，有时它会让你心烦意乱。
I know what a book I'll say.
我知道我会说什么书。
It upsets me.
这让我心烦意乱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some of it does, but it's not the criticism that people think upsets me that upsets me.
有些确实如此，但并不是人们认为让我不安的批评让我不安。
But that's a different story.
但那是另一回事了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Your book will be a bestseller.
你的书将成为畅销书。
You could put out, I don't know, the script of "The Sound of Music," and it's going to be a bestseller.
我不知道，你可以推出《音乐之声》的剧本，它将会成为畅销书。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It'll be better than if I had done that, but not better than "The Sound of Music."
这会比我这样做更好，但不会比《音乐之声》更好。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
There you go.
就这样吧。
And this is what TikTok and YouTube, the algorithms, someone will immediately say, "This is why Andrew Huberman's book is bullshit." Because if they put a well-known figure's name in front of a best-selling book and says bullshit and creates antagonism and comments, the algorithms pick up on that, optimize it, it'll get millions of views, which is more Nissan ads and more shareholder value.
这就是 TikTok 和 YouTube 的算法，有人会立即说，“这就是为什么安德鲁·胡伯曼的书是废话。”因为如果他们把一个知名人物的名字放在一本畅销书前面，说废话，制造对抗和评论，算法就会吸收这一点，对其进行优化，它将获得数百万的浏览量，这就是更多的日产广告和更多的股东价值。
So there is not only a healthy check on people's power, more scrutiny.
因此，不仅要对人们的权力进行健康的检查，还要进行更多的审查。
The president should get a lot of scrutiny.
总统应该受到更多的审查。
The president deserves to have his business and personal life, to a certain extent, at least where it demonstrates character, looked into and examined.
总统的商业和个人生活应该在某种程度上受到审视和审查，至少在表现出个性的地方如此。
And I think a certain amount of power and healthy check on power is probably a healthy thing.
我认为一定数量的权力和对权力的健康检查可能是一件健康的事情。
Unfortunately, now, there's economic incentive around tearing people down.
不幸的是，现在有经济动机围绕着拆毁人们。
I don't know about you, I do have a real fear.
我不了解你，我真的很害怕。
I am highly imperfect, professionally and personally.
无论是在职业上还是在个人方面，我都非常不完美。
I've engaged in a lot of professional and personal behavior that I am not proud of.
我从事了很多我并不引以为豪的职业和个人行为。
I've been divorced.
我已经离婚了。
I haven't been as kind to people that have worked for me as I should have been, and I'm worried it's all going to come crashing down.
我对那些为我工作过的人没有像我应该的那样友善，我担心这一切都会崩溃。
And a lot of times, I feel like the stuff I'm saying on podcasts like this, I'm trying to portray myself as being better than I actually am.
很多时候，我觉得我在这样的播客上所说的东西，我试图把自己描绘成比实际情况更好的人。
I have huge imposter syndrome.
我患有严重的冒名顶替综合症。
And big tech has an economic incentive in trying to find as many guardians of gotcha pins as possible, because if you get to a certain point of fame or credibility, there's just too much money in trying to find the soft tissue on you.
大型科技公司有经济动机试图找到尽可能多的陷阱徽章守护者，因为如果你达到了一定的名气或可信度，那么试图找到你身上的软组织就会有太多的钱。
So there's a very unhealthy attribute in our society where we're all just waiting for bad news, and there's economic incentive to say, "Well, this person isn't perfect.
因此，我们的社会有一个非常不健康的属性，我们都在等待坏消息，并且有经济动机说：“嗯，这个人并不完美。
Look what this person did." So I agree with you.
看看这个人做了什么。”所以我同意你的观点。
We need to demonstrate a little bit more grace.
我们需要表现出更多一点的恩典。
Something I really hate about my party, I consider myself a proud progressive, is these purity tests, right?
我真的很讨厌我的政党，我认为自己是一个自豪的进步人士，这些纯度测试是吧？
I put out a picture of me and a bunch of buddies that I went to UCLA with.
我放了一张我和一群一起去加州大学洛杉矶分校的朋友的照片。
One's an aircraft carrier pilot, one's an ophthalmologist.
一个是航母飞行员，一个是眼科医生。
It was a picture of all of us, and I've said, "Find impressive men and befriend them."
这是我们所有人的照片，我说过，“找到令人印象深刻的男人并与他们成为朋友。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think I saw that post.
我想我看到了那个帖子。
You were the one towering over the rest of them.
你是那个比其他人高耸的人。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
I think I've shrunk.
我想我已经缩水了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Huh?
啊？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Isn't that weird?
这不是很奇怪吗？
I've shrunk.
我已经缩水了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're a tall guy.
你是个高个子。
No, I don't think you...
不，我不认为你...
I only know you now, but-
我现在才认识你，但是——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I was 6'3" in college.
我在大学时身高 6 英尺 3 英寸。
I'm 6'1" and a half now.
我现在身高 6 英尺 1 英寸半。
It's nice I'm at an age where I'm shrinking.
还好我到了一个正在萎缩的年纪。
Anyways, and I knew I was just waiting for it.
不管怎样，我知道我只是在等待。
"White privilege." "What a douchebag." Just all the comments and all the sort of people coming after you, right?
“白人特权。” “真是个混蛋。”只是所有的评论和所有追随你的人，对吧？
Or people who can't just say, "Oh, good for you.
或者那些不能只是说：“哦，对你有好处。
Well done." And that's just part of it, and that's a small price to pay for a certain level of success.
干得好。”这只是其中的一部分，对于取得一定程度的成功来说，这只是一个很小的代价。
But the algorithms immediately grab that and elevate it, because there's money in antagonism.
但算法会立即抓住这一点并提升它，因为对抗可以赚钱。
A thoughtful, nuanced conversation online and a positive reinforcing comment, that doesn't tickle the sensors.
一次深思熟虑、细致入微的在线对话和积极强化的评论，不会激起传感器的兴趣。
If you can create a fight online, if you say mRNA vaccines alter your DNA, you're going to get a lot of comments, and the algorithms love that, and it'll elevate it.
如果你可以在网上发起一场战斗，如果你说 mRNA 疫苗改变了你的 DNA，你就会收到很多评论，算法喜欢这一点，它会提升它。
So unfortunately, we have attached 40% of the market value of the S&P to incendiary content that tears us apart, and the result is people now don't believe that Russian troops pouring over the border in Ukraine is their enemy.
不幸的是，我们将标准普尔市值的 40% 归入了那些让我们分裂的煽动性内容，结果是人们现在不相信越过乌克兰边境涌入的俄罗斯军队是他们的敌人。
They believe that their neighbor with a Trump sign is their real enemy, or someone who doesn't believe your ideology around gender politics is your enemy.
他们认为带有特朗普标志的邻居才是他们真正的敌人，或者不相信你的性别政治意识形态的人才是你的敌人。
And unfortunately, it's being, I believe, and I know this sounds paranoid, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong, these poorest platforms that have an economic incentive and antagonistic content are being fueled by bad actors, whether it's the GRU or the CCP, who look at America and say, "We can't beat them economically, we can't beat them kinetically, so let's get them to hate each other." And that is Americans now perceive other Americans as the biggest threat.
不幸的是，我相信，我知道这听起来有些偏执，但这并不意味着我错了，这些拥有经济激励和敌对内容的最贫穷的平台正在受到不良行为者的推动，无论是格鲁乌还是中共，他们看着美国说，“我们无法在经济上击败他们，我们无法在动力上击败他们，所以让他们互相仇恨吧。”这就是美国人现在将其他美国人视为最大的威胁。
So one, it is healthy to look at powerful people that have huge influence, such as you, and to a lesser extent, me, and question their beliefs and write critical articles of them.
因此，观察具有巨大影响力的有权势的人（例如你，以及较小程度上的我），质疑他们的信仰并撰写批评文章是健康的。
It crushed me when the, I can't remember if it was "The Atlantic" or "The New Yorker," came out with sort of a critical review of my book.
当我不记得是《大西洋月刊》还是《纽约客》对我的书进行批评性评论时，我感到很震惊。
It was really upsetting to me, and I think part of the thing that was so upsetting was And we were talking about this off mic.
这真的让我感到不安，我认为令人不安的部分原因是我们正在谈论这个关闭麦克风的事情。
It meant some of it was true.
这意味着其中一些是真的。
That's healthy.
这很健康。
It's healthy when there's thoughtful criticism around your book.
当你的书受到深思熟虑的批评时，这是健康的。
But when I have hundreds of comments accusing me of shit that never happened, and then you look at it and it's Dog Mom Wisconsin 331 with three followers, that's a bot.
但是，当我有数百条评论指责我从未发生过的事情时，然后你看一下，它是狗妈妈威斯康星州 331 和三个追随者，那就是一个机器人。
And the fact that these platforms choose not to screen out those bots because they know more incendiary comments that create more comments and more Nissan ads, I think that is tearing at the fabric of America.
事实上，这些平台选择不屏蔽这些机器人，因为它们知道更多煽动性评论，这些评论会产生更多评论和更多日产广告，我认为这正在撕裂美国的结构。
But I just want to acknowledge the point.
但我只是想承认这一点。
I think maturity is realizing people aren't perfect, learn from them what you can.
我认为成熟就是认识到人并不完美，向他们学习你能学到的东西。
But I do think the wealthiest man in the world and the president should be held to a higher standard.
但我确实认为世界上最富有的人和总统应该遵守更高的标准。
I think they have extraordinary blessings.
我认为他们有非凡的祝福。
I think their decisions matter, and I think the scrutiny they come under is warranted.
我认为他们的决定很重要，而且我认为他们受到的审查是有必要的。
And I will say this, I think the president, to a certain extent, Elon Musk, have created a lot of cloud cover for our imperfections.
我想说的是，我认为总统，在某种程度上，埃隆·马斯克，为我们的缺陷制造了很多乌云。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 for nearly 15 years now.
你们很多人都知道，我服用 AG1 已有近 15 年了。
I discovered it way back in 2012, long before I ever had a podcast, and I've been taking it every day since.
我早在 2012 年就发现了它，那时我还没有播客，从那时起我就每天都在听它。
The reason I started taking it, and the reason I still take it, is because AG1 is, to my knowledge, the highest quality and most comprehensive of the foundational nutritional supplements on the market.
我开始服用它的原因，以及我仍然服用它的原因，是因为据我所知，AG1是市场上质量最高、最全面的基础营养补充剂。
It combines vitamins, minerals, prebiotics, probiotics, and adaptogens into a single scoop that's easy to drink and it tastes great.
它将维生素、矿物质、益生元、益生菌和适应原结合到一勺中，易于饮用，味道极佳。
It's designed to support things like gut health, immune health, and overall energy, and it does so by helping to fill any gaps you might have in your daily nutrition.
它旨在支持肠道健康、免疫健康和整体能量等，并通过帮助填补您日常营养中可能存在的任何缺口来实现这一目标。
Now, of course, everyone should strive to eat nutritious whole foods.
当然，现在每个人都应该努力吃有营养的天然食品。
I certainly do that every day.
我当然每天都这样做。
But I'm often asked, if you could take just one supplement, what would that supplement be?
但我经常被问到，如果您只能服用一种补充剂，那么该补充剂会是什么？
And my answer is always AG1, because it has just been oh-so critical to supporting all aspects of my physical health, mental health, and performance.
我的答案始终是 AG1，因为它对于支持我的身体健康、心理健康和表现的各个方面都非常重要。
I know this from my own experience with AG1, and I continually hear this from other people who use AG1 daily.
我从自己使用 AG1 的经验中了解到这一点，并且我不断从其他每天使用 AG1 的人那里听到这一点。
If you would like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 以获得特别优惠。
For a limited time, AG1 is giving away six free travel packs of AG1 and a bottle of vitamin D3+K2 with your subscription.
限时订阅后，AG1 将赠送 6 个免费 AG1 旅行包和一瓶维生素 D3+K2。
Again, that's drinkag1, with the numeral one, .com/huberman to get six free travel packs and a bottle of vitamin D3+K2 with your subscription.
再次强调，这是 Drinkag1，通过数字 1 .com/huberman 订阅即可获得六个免费旅行包和一瓶维生素 D3+K2。
I disagree vehemently with one point, which is that I'm more influential than you are.
我强烈不同意一点，那就是我比你更有影响力。
You're incredibly influential.
你的影响力非常大。
In fact, an ex-girlfriend's sister, who went to NYU, asked me if I knew who you were.
事实上，一位去纽约大学的前女友的姐姐问我是否知道你是谁。
I said, "Of course." And she said, her words, "For our generation, Scott is like a father to us." And she happens to be in venture capital, so maybe there's a finance link there, too.
我说：“当然。”她用她的话来说：“对于我们这一代人来说，斯科特就像我们的父亲。”而且她恰好从事风险投资，所以也许那里也有金融联系。
But I pressed on that a little bit and just asked, and she said, "Yeah, we look up to him.
但我稍微追问了一下，然后就问了，她说：“是的，我们尊敬他。
We listen to him.
我们听他的。
He's very paternal to us." So I thought you might appreciate that.
他对我们很有慈父般的感觉。”所以我想你可能会欣赏这一点。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I do appreciate that.
我确实很欣赏这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Coming from a woman as well.
也来自于一个女人。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I'd appreciate it more if she'd said older brother.
如果她说哥哥的话我会更感激。
I'm very conscious of my age now, but...
我现在很清楚自己的年龄，但是...
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Are you?
你是吗？
Really?
真的吗？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Oh, 100%.
哦，100%。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're in your 60s.
你已经 60 多岁了。
You're super fit.
你超级适合。
You've got two healthy boys.
你有两个健康的男孩。
You're in a happy relationship.
你们的关系很幸福。
You got huge reach.
你的影响力很大。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Going on.
继续。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I imagine your bank accounts are fine, and you're actively engaged in service.
我想你的银行账户没问题，而且你也积极参与服务。
In my eyes, you're doing great.
在我眼里，你做得很好。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I appreciate that, but I'd rather be in this spot at 40, at 41, not 61.
我很感激这一点，但我宁愿在 40 岁、41 岁时处于这个位置，而不是 61 岁。
I'm very self-conscious about my age.
我对自己的年龄非常在意。
But I just want to go back to something I think that gets in the way of success and has been a huge unlock for me is, but your fear, your fear of criticism.
但我只想回到我认为阻碍成功并对我来说是一个巨大的解脱的事情，那就是你的恐惧，你对批评的恐惧。
If you're going to be successful, you're going to face criticism.
如果你想成功，你就会面临批评。
Starting a business is subjecting yourself to public failure.
创业就是让自己遭受公众的失败。
I want to go back to something you said about approaching women and guys being afraid to be that guy.
我想回到你所说的关于接近女人和男人害怕成为那个人的事情。
I think some of that is a little bit exaggerated.
我认为有些说法有点夸张。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
And that most women, if you are respectful, the vast majority of women, if you are respectful and approach a woman at a bar, "Hi, how are you?" And she's not interested, you're going to be fine, and you're both going to be fine.
大多数女性，如果你很尊重，绝大多数女性，如果你很尊重，在酒吧里接近一个女人，“嗨，你好吗？”她不感兴趣，你会好起来的，你们俩都会好起来的。
And just as I think there's two myths that are damaging to the mating market, which is really upsetting to me, one, that men think that all women are looking to, or a lot of women are looking to embarrass them, and they might get canceled professionally.
正如我认为有两个神话正在损害择偶市场，这确实让我感到不安，其一，男人认为所有女人都在寻求，或者很多女人都想让他们难堪，他们可能会在职业上被取消。
If you're respectful to a woman and approach her and make her feel safe, and then if she's not interested, politely exit, you're going to be fine, and so is she.
如果你尊重一个女人，接近她，让她感到安全，然后如果她不感兴趣，礼貌地退出，你会没事的，她也是。
And I don't buy that you're taking your career in your hands.
我不同意你把自己的职业生涯掌握在自己手中。
I think that's just bullshit and an excuse to be an incel.
我认为这只是胡说八道，是成为非自愿者的借口。
I just don't buy it.
我就是不买。
And two, what really has been an enormous unlock for me is I believe in my atheism.
第二，对我来说真正重要的是我相信我的无神论。
I believe at some point I'm going to look into my kids' eyes and know our relationship is coming to an end.
我相信在某个时刻，我会看着孩子的眼睛，知道我们的关系即将结束。
I was fucking their age.
我他妈的就是他们这个年纪。
You got a bunch of young dudes in here who look like former Abercrombie & Fitch models.
这里有一群看起来像 Abercrombie & Fitch 前模特的年轻小伙子。
I remember, they look like they're 25, they're probably 35.
我记得，他们看上去25岁，大概35岁。
It was yesterday I was their age, which means just in an instant, I'm going to be, again, at that moment where I know I don't have much time left.
昨天我就到了他们的年龄，这意味着就在一瞬间，我将再次处于那个我知道我所剩时间不多的时刻。
And in 100 years, no one's going to give a shit what I said or thought or did or the mistakes I made.
一百年后，没有人会在意我所说、所想、所做或所犯的错误。
And embracing that and accepting that has given me so much courage, right?
拥抱这一点并接受这一点给了我很大的勇气，对吗？
To start businesses, to make dumb investments that might be crazy, to tell men in my life finally that I love them or I'm impressed with them.
创业，进行可能疯狂的愚蠢投资，最终告诉我生命中的男人我爱他们或者我对他们印象深刻。
When I was their age, I had this weird sense of masculinity that if I said, "Oh, dude, look how handsome this dude is," that it took away from my prestige somehow, that I couldn't tell people they were impressive.
当我在他们这个年纪的时候，我有一种奇怪的男子气概，如果我说，“哦，伙计，看看这个家伙多帅”，它就会以某种方式剥夺我的威望，我无法告诉人们他们令人印象深刻。
I couldn't tell a woman, "God, I'm just crazy about you, and I would give anything to spend more time with you," because I was worried that she wouldn't return my affection, and I would be just too hurt, and I had to be cool and not need her.
我不能对一个女人说：“上帝啊，我为你着迷，我愿意付出一切来与你共度更多时光。”因为我担心她不会回报我的爱，而我会太受伤，我必须保持冷静，不需要她。
All this bullshit that got in the way of me really having a good life.
所有这些废话都妨碍了我真正过上美好的生活。
And what I realized is every failure I've had, people go, "Oh, his business went bankrupt.
我意识到我经历的每一次失败，人们都会说，“哦，他的公司破产了。
Okay." And then they go back to thinking about themselves.
好吧。”然后他们又回过头来思考自己。
So everyone you're worried about really doesn't give a shit about you.
所以你担心的每个人都不在乎你。
And by the way, the dude that's not very good-looking and is with a ridiculously high character hot woman is one of two things, has rich parents, or two Or two, is willing to endure rejection.
顺便说一句，长得不太好看的家伙，性格高得离谱的辣妹，只有两种情况之一，有有钱的父母，或者两两个，愿意忍受拒绝。
So I just don't buy that myth of the man risking his personal and professional reputation, I don't think that's true.
所以我不相信这个人拿自己的个人和职业声誉冒险的神话，我认为那不是真的。
On the other side, the myth I hate, I don't know if you've seen this.
另一方面，我讨厌的神话，我不知道你是否见过这个。
On TikTok, a lot of women are saying, "I don't date because the risks of being unalived," which I guess is the woke version of saying murdered-
在 TikTok 上，很多女性都在说，“我不约会，因为存在死后的风险”，我猜这就是“被谋杀”的醒悟版本——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it's because on social media platforms, if you say murder or suicide-
我认为这是因为在社交媒体平台上，如果你说谋杀或自杀——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Oh, it goes right down?
哦，就这样下去了？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know if it actually does, but it's this idea that, yeah, that it's going to be ranked down.
我不知道它是否真的如此，但正是这个想法，是的，它的排名将会下降。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Here's the data.
这是数据。
Okay.
好的。
If 2,500 women a year are murdered by men, that's way too many.
如果每年有 2,500 名女性被男性谋杀，那就太多了。
It's a huge problem.
这是一个大问题。
Sexual assault is a bigger problem.
性侵犯是一个更大的问题。
The majority of women who are murdered are murdered by someone they know.
大多数被谋杀的妇女都是被她们认识的人谋杀的。
So the reality is, a small number of women are murdered on dates with strangers.
所以现实是，有少数女性在与陌生人约会时被谋杀。
It just doesn't happen that often.
只是这种情况并不经常发生。
And 40,000 men a year kill themselves.
每年有 40,000 人自杀。
So if you go on a date with a man, the man is 16 times more likely to go home and hurt himself than hurt you.
因此，如果你和一个男人约会，这个男人回家后伤害自己的可能性比伤害你的可能性高 16 倍。
So what I would say to men is make the approach, take the risk, and as long as you're respectful, you're going to be fine and so is she, and you are not taking your professional or personal reputation into your hands.
所以我要对男人说的是，主动接近，承担风险，只要你尊重，你就会没事，她也是，你不会把你的职业或个人声誉掌握在你的手中。
And what I would say to women is if you go on a date with a guy that you met on an app, there's all sorts of digital breadcrumbs, and it's a lot.
我想对女性说的是，如果你和一个在应用程序上认识的男人约会，就会有各种各样的数字面包屑，而且数量很多。
And I can statistically prove this.
我可以通过统计证明这一点。
The ride over in Uber, the Uber was a lot more dangerous than the date itself, and you are more likely to die of choking during dinner than to be hurt by that man.
乘坐 Uber 过来，Uber 比约会本身危险得多，你更有可能在晚餐时窒息而死，而不是被那个男人伤害。
So what I hate is that there's all this inflammatory content being boosted on online media that's getting in the way of the most rewarding thing in life, and that is to find someone who you are physically attracted to, who you sync up with spiritually, and you decide to build a life together.
所以我讨厌的是，网络媒体上充斥着煽动性的内容，这些内容妨碍了生活中最有价值的事情，那就是找到一个你在身体上被吸引、在精神上与你同步的人，然后你决定一起建立一个生活。
And not enough of that is happening.
但这种情况发生的还不够多。
We're in a sex recession, right?
我们正处于性衰退期，对吗？
And online is making it worse.
而在线则让情况变得更糟。
The dating apps have an incentive in you finding a bigger, better deal.
约会应用程序会激励你找到更大、更好的交易。
And the genders have done an amazing job of convincing each other it's the other's fault.
两性在说服对方这是对方的错方面做得非常出色。
And I think one of the big foci that need to be really pay more attention to is what I call renewal of alliances.
我认为真正需要更多关注的一大焦点是我所说的联盟更新。
I'd love to see a renewal of alliances between us and our great allies in Europe.
我很高兴看到我们和我们在欧洲的伟大盟友之间重新建立联盟。
Renewal of allies who are moderates.
温和派盟友的更新。
I know nothing about you.
我对你一无所知。
I just can't believe you're an extremist on the left or the right.
我简直不敢相信你是左翼或右翼的极端分子。
I just don't-
我只是不-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Bullseye
靶心
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
There needs to be a renewal of alliances between what I'll call moderate lefties like me and moderate conservatives that are everywhere.
像我这样的温和左派和无处不在的温和保守派之间需要重建联盟。
Look, we're all Americans, but the most important alliance that needs renewal is the greatest alliance in history, hands down.
看，我们都是美国人，但需要更新的最重要的联盟无疑是历史上最伟大的联盟。
And it's the alliance between men and women.
这是男人和女人之间的联盟。
The integration of female and male energy, the ability to find someone you want to procreate with, to build something together, that is the most rewarding thing in life, and I can prove it's key to the species' progress and existence.
女性和男性能量的融合，能够找到想要与之繁衍后代的人，共同建设一些东西，这是生命中最有价值的事情，我可以证明这是物种进步和存在的关键。
And men and women have been taught not to trust each other and to blame each other.
男人和女人都被教导不要互相信任并互相指责。
I hate the fucking manosphere, and I hate the, quite frankly, some of the reactionary notion on the left where it's misandry cosplaying as social commentary.
我讨厌他妈的马诺圈，而且坦率地说，我讨厌左派的一些反动观念，即把厌男角色扮演作为社会评论。
There's a lot of bullshit misandry online where you're assuming every young man is a predator, and quite frankly, that every billionaire is evil or that every white person is racist.
网上有很多胡言乱语，你假设每个年轻人都是掠夺者，坦率地说，每个亿万富翁都是邪恶的，或者每个白人都是种族主义者。
But the alliance between men and women needs to be reformed.
但男女之间的联盟需要改革。
It's the greatest alliance in history.
这是历史上最伟大的联盟。
And online, it's teaching men to blame women for their problems.
在网上，它教导男性将自己的问题归咎于女性。
No. Women's ascent saved our ass.
不，女性的攀登救了我们的命。
Women in the factory in World War II is the reason we won the war in four years, not in seven.
第二次世界大战中工厂里的女性是我们在四年而不是七年内赢得战争的原因。
Women going into the workforce in the '70s and '80s and protections of their rights for fair pay is the reason we're not a second-tier power to China right now.
女性在 70 年代和 80 年代进入劳动力市场并保护她们获得公平报酬的权利是我们现在不是中国的二线强国的原因。
If women hadn't ascended, we'd be really squarely and duly fucked, right?
如果女性没有崛起，我们就会被彻底地操蛋，对吧？
And their ascent is in no way inversely correlated or correlated to men's descent.
她们的上升与男性的下降绝没有任何负相关或相关关系。
Men have to stop that bullshit.
男人必须停止这种胡言乱语。
An immigrant didn't take your job.
移民没有抢走你的工作。
He made it such that you could have lower rent, a meal for a reasonable price, and have someone take care of your mother when she's older.
他让你可以享受更低的房租，以合理的价格吃一顿饭，并在你母亲年长时有人照顾她。
And at the same time, if you're having romantic problems, it's not her fault.
与此同时，如果你遇到爱情问题，那不是她的错。
Women are ascending, and naturally, they have higher standards because they're no longer economically dependent upon men, which should be a motivator for men to level up, not to start blaming women.
女性正在上升，自然地，她们有更高的标准，因为她们在经济上不再依赖男性，这应该成为男性提升水平的动力，而不是开始指责女性。
And all this shit is being totally inflamed and taken totally out of proportion by online because it creates more tension, it's interesting, it's novel, and it creates more Nissan ads.
所有这些狗屎都在网上被完全煽动和完全不成比例，因为它制造了更多的紧张感，它很有趣，它很新颖，而且它创造了更多的日产广告。
But I'm trying to figure out what is the economic incentive to try and figure out a way to get more men and women appreciating the other gender beyond just the basics, right?
但我试图弄清楚什么是经济动机，试图找到一种方法让更多的男人和女人超越基本的欣赏异性，对吗？
How do we renew that alliance?
我们如何更新这种联盟？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love that statement.
我喜欢这句话。
I saw somewhere, of all places, on X.
我在 X 上看到了某个地方，在所有地方中。
Every once in a while, you encounter something that really sticks with you.
每隔一段时间，你就会遇到一些真正让你印象深刻的事情。
Every once in a while, there's a gem that just falls through, really makes you think.
每隔一段时间，就会有一颗宝石掉落下来，真的会让你思考。
And I don't know who this person was.
而且我不知道这个人是谁。
Might've been an account with one follower.
可能是一个只有一名关注者的帐户。
And it landed in front of me, and it said, "The way you destroy a society is to get the men and women to hate each other."
它落在我面前，上面写着：“摧毁一个社会的方式就是让男人和女人互相仇恨。”
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Interesting.
有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And as a biologist, first and foremost, I thought, "Well, that makes perfect sense." Right?
作为一名生物学家，首先也是最重要的是，我想，“嗯，这很有道理。”正确的？
If you want to eradicate a population of any species, you get the males and the females to start hating each other, not just because they don't mate, but because you throw off the mating dynamics in a way that then can create infighting among the males, we see that too, infighting among the women.
如果你想消灭任何物种的种群，你就会让雄性和雌性开始互相憎恨，不仅仅是因为它们不交配，而是因为你以一种可能造成雄性之间的内讧的方式摆脱了交配动态，我们也看到了，雌性之间的内讧。
Although, I don't know, I think that there's a lot to explore around this sort of what the standard is that we're holding the opposite sex to.
虽然我不知道，但我认为围绕我们对异性的标准是什么，还有很多值得探索的地方。
It's an interesting question.
这是一个有趣的问题。
I can't say I've really evolved my thinking around this enough to maybe dive into it, but I know you've thought about this.
我不能说我已经围绕这个问题真正发展了我的想法，足以深入研究它，但我知道你已经考虑过这个问题。
I think a lot of males hide behind this notion that they have to be everything.
我认为很多男性都隐藏着“他们必须成为一切”的观念。
They have to be tall.
他们必须很高。
They have to be rich.
他们必须富有。
They have to be jacked.
他们必须被劫持。
They have to be kind.
他们必须友善。
They have to be...
他们必须是...
Hopefully everyone's kind, but-
希望每个人都友善，但是-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you know what I mean, that they can't say the wrong thing even once.
你知道我的意思，他们一次也不能说错话。
So they're hiding behind that And if they go out and look, they'll get plenty of evidence for that.
所以他们躲在后面 如果他们出去寻找，他们会得到足够的证据。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
No protectors, no this.
没有保护者，就没有这个。
Actually, I did something I rarely do, which is I brought my phone into this.
事实上，我做了一件我很少做的事，那就是我把手机带进去了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because right before I came in here, a woman that I've known for 20 years wrote and asked me if I would ask you a question.
因为就在我来这里之前，一位我认识了 20 年的女士写信问我是否可以问你一个问题。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Wow.
哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's directly related to this, so I'm going to do this.
这与此直接相关，所以我将这样做。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of course, I'm not going to say who this person is.
当然，我不会说这个人是谁。
And she said, because I mentioned that I'm speaking to you today, and she said, "Please tell Scott that I'd personally like to thank him for his efforts encouraging men to embrace their duties as protectors, providers, and generally just being accountable, because we have a serious shortage among hetero dudes," she lives in San Francisco, "particularly in the Bay Area." And I said, "Will do, but can you tell me what you mean by accountable?
她说，因为我提到我今天要和你说话，她说，“请告诉斯科特，我个人要感谢他努力鼓励男人承担起保护者、供养者的职责，并且通常只是承担责任，因为我们严重缺乏异性恋男人，”她住在旧金山，“尤其是在湾区。”我说：“可以，但是你能告诉我负责任是什么意思吗？
Serious question, I want to make sure I'm specific." She said, "When I say accountability, I'm referring to the fact that many times in romantic relationships, men seem to want to avoid feelings of shame and guilt to such a degree that they often respond to their partner's feelings towards them without empathy or accountability.
严肃的问题，我想确保我说得具体。”她说：“当我说责任时，我指的是这样一个事实：在恋爱关系中，很多时候，男人似乎想要避免羞耻和内疚感，以至于他们经常在没有同理心或责任的情况下回应伴侣对他们的感受。
I find that here in," okay, San Francisco, there are many women in San Francisco.
我发现在旧金山，”好吧，旧金山有很多女性。
I don't think I outed her here.
我不认为我在这里揭露了她。
"Or perhaps all major US metros, chivalry is dead.
“或者也许美国所有主要都会区的骑士精神都已消亡。
Men are afraid to assert their desires because they don't want the obligation that it might entail." Interesting.
男人害怕表达自己的愿望，因为他们不想承担由此带来的义务。”有趣的。
"They give up when something requires internal growth or leveling up.
“当某些事情需要内部成长或升级时，他们就会放弃。
They shy away from acting protective of their partners in favor of egalitarian dynamics, which is flawed since men clearly have more physical strength." Oh my God, this goes on and on.
她们回避保护伴侣，而倾向于平等主义，这是有缺陷的，因为男性显然拥有更多的体力。”天啊，这样的事还在继续。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is almost overwhelming me, but I think I can grapple with it.
这几乎让我不知所措，但我想我可以克服它。
Oh, thank you.
哦，谢谢。
I swear I didn't plant this.
我发誓这不是我种的。
She said, "None of this has ever applied to you, in case you're curious." Thank you for that one, by the way.
她说：“如果你好奇的话，这些都不适用于你。”顺便说一句，谢谢你。
She says, "They're wimpy.
她说：“他们很懦弱。
They avoid relationships that require work and responsibility because they don't want to feel inadequate.
他们避免需要工作和责任的关系，因为他们不想感到自己不足。
They avoid difficult conversations and repair because they don't want to feel shame or guilt.
他们避免困难的谈话和修复，因为他们不想感到羞耻或内疚。
They avoid asking for anything explicitly because they don't want to feel obligated, or complimenting a woman, or giving her flowers or romance.
他们避免明确要求任何东西，因为他们不想感到有义务，或赞美女人，或给她鲜花或浪漫。
They're all scared to do it.
他们都害怕这样做。
It's so odd." Anyway, that's it.
太奇怪了。”无论如何，就是这样。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
That's all, huh?
仅此而已，是吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
So I'm hearing that second part for the first time.
所以我是第一次听到第二部分。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The long part.
长的部分。
And I have to say, if I were a 25-year-old guy now-
我不得不说，如果我现在是一个 25 岁的人——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I'd be like, "Whoa."
我会说，“哇。”
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's a lot.
就这么多了。
Okay.
好的。
There's something there.
那里有东西。
They want me to bring flowers, be romantic, be affectionate.
他们希望我带花，要浪漫，要深情。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Clearly, there's a reference towards being sexually proactive there.
显然，这里提到了性方面的主动性。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And yet assume responsibility, level up, be empathic.
但还要承担责任、提升水平、具有同理心。
I'm not trying to defend or attack this person who I'm close to in my life, but that's a lot.
我并不是想捍卫或攻击这个我生命中亲近的人，但这已经很多了。
That's a tall building right there to scale for a guy who's trying to figure out how to work out three times a week, get off porn.
对于一个想弄清楚如何每周锻炼三次、摆脱色情的人来说，那是一栋高楼。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Anyway, I thought I'd share that and just get your reflections.
不管怎样，我想我应该分享这一点并听取你们的想法。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
First off, I think that we all have a set of insecurities around not living up, mostly because, again, I really do think Big Tech, while it's a net good, incredible economic growth, job growth, I connect with my buddies from college, I get to build a business and market it less expensively.
首先，我认为我们都有一系列关于不生活的不安全感，主要是因为，我真的认为大型科技公司，虽然它是一个净好的，令人难以置信的经济增长，就业增长，我与我大学的朋友联系，我可以建立一个企业并以更便宜的价格营销它。
I can break through voices that can bubble up just based on their talent.
我可以突破那些仅凭他们的天赋就能冒出的声音。
Teen suicide has skyrocketed since social went on mobile.
自从社交网络进入移动设备以来，青少年自杀率急剧上升。
It's not the only reason, but it's either number one or number two, according to my colleague Jonathan Haidt and Jean Twenge at San Diego State.
我在圣地亚哥州立大学的同事乔纳森·海特和让·特温格表示，这不是唯一的原因，但它要么是第一，要么是第二。
I don't believe there's any reason that anyone under the age of 16 should be on social media where young girls are encouraged to sexualize themselves, where if they start having suicidal ideation, they are sent an email that says verbatim, "Here are some images on suicide we thought you might find interesting."
我不认为任何 16 岁以下的人都应该使用那些鼓励年轻女孩将自己性感化的社交媒体，如果她们开始有自杀意念，就会收到一封电子邮件，逐字逐句地写着：“这里有一些关于自杀的图片，我们认为您可能会感兴趣。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, nice.
哦，不错。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
But also, it's created unreasonable expectations for a lot of young men and young women about what they need to look like.
但同时，它也让很多年轻男性和年轻女性对自己的外表产生了不合理的期望。
If they haven't made millions of dollars, if they aren't on a private jet going to Coachella, if they don't have a boyfriend with a six-pack, if they don't look just amazing all the time.
如果他们没有赚到数百万美元，如果他们没有乘坐私人飞机去科切拉音乐节，如果他们没有拥有六块腹肌的男朋友，如果他们不是一直看起来都很棒。
I think it creates tremendous anxiety and unreasonable expectations.
我认为这会造成巨大的焦虑和不合理的期望。
So I would argue that, okay, so who's at fault?
所以我会争辩说，好吧，那么谁有错呢？
We're at fault.
我们有错。
In that as we keep hoping or waiting for the better angels of tech CEOs to show up, that's not going to happen.
当我们一直希望或等待更好的科技首席执行官天使出现时，这不会发生。
I've been working my whole life with CEOs.
我一生都在与首席执行官一起工作。
They're going to make incremental decisions to do whatever moves the stock price up.
他们将做出增量决策，采取任何能够推动股价上涨的措施。
That's their job.
那是他们的工作。
That's capitalism.
这就是资本主义。
Their job is to take a set of resources, figure out an offering where they get more than they paid to garner those resources, and create shareholder value.
他们的工作是获取一组资源，找出一种产品，使他们获得的收益超过为获取这些资源而付出的成本，并创造股东价值。
They will do anything to do that.
他们会不择手段地做到这一点。
That's their job.
那是他们的工作。
And then we're supposed to tax them such that we can build our roads, take care of our veterans, and have a set of laws so they don't get out of control.
然后我们应该向他们征税，这样我们就可以修建道路，照顾我们的退伍军人，并制定一套法律，这样他们就不会失控。
So that they don't lie and say, "No, smoking's not addictive." And then our mothers, our sisters, and our dads start dying, right?
这样他们就不会撒谎说：“不，吸烟不会上瘾。”然后我们的母亲、我们的姐妹和我们的父亲开始死去，对吧？
We have regulation.
我们有监管。
We are net beneficiaries from fossil fuels and pesticides, but we still have an EPA and an FDA.
我们是化石燃料和农药的净受益者，但我们仍然有 EPA 和 FDA。
There's absolutely no regulation on Big Tech.
对大型科技公司绝对没有任何监管。
There's more regulation in this mic than there is on Big Tech because they have weaponized Washington and money and Citizens United.
这个麦克风的监管比大型科技公司的监管更多，因为它们已经将华盛顿、金钱和公民联盟武器化了。
There are more full-time lobbyists living in Washington, DC, working for Amazon, one company, than there are sitting US senators.
居住在华盛顿特区、为亚马逊公司工作的全职说客数量比在任的美国参议员还要多。
So they have very effectively avoided all regulation to the point where they basically run unfettered, whether it's bots, whether it's harm to children, whether it's letting bad actors try and influence elections.
因此，他们非常有效地避免了所有监管，以至于他们基本上不受限制地运行，无论是机器人，无论是对儿童的伤害，还是让不良行为者试图影响选举。
And in my opinion, if your content can be reverse engineered to self-harm among teens, if we could prove statistically that your podcast was resulting in self-harm among teenage girls, this podcast would be shut down.
在我看来，如果你的内容可以被逆向工程到青少年中的自残，如果我们可以从统计数据上证明你的播客导致了十几岁女孩的自残，那么这个播客就会被关闭。
You would be sued, and you would eventually decide to go out of business.
你会被起诉，最终你会决定倒闭。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, if we were harming people, appropriately so.
好吧，如果我们伤害了人，那就适当吧。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I would argue Big Tech does that and more every day.
我认为大型科技公司每天都在这样做，甚至更多。
And these cases that just came down, actually one in LA, that found Google liable.
刚刚审理的这些案件，实际上是洛杉矶的一桩，认定谷歌负有责任。
Do you realize that the New Mexico attorney general, do you know what he did in his case?
你知道新墨西哥州总检察长，你知道他在这起案件中做了什么吗？
He created an account posing as a 12-year-old girl And within minutes, he was getting messages and solicitations from known sexual abusers.
他冒充 12 岁女孩创建了一个帐户，几分钟之内，他就收到了来自已知性虐待者的信息和招揽。
That was their first piece of evidence, that if you create an account and you say you're a 12-year-old girl, within hours they were getting overtures from known sexual predators.
这是他们的第一个证据，即如果你创建一个帐户并说你是一名 12 岁女孩，那么几个小时内他们就会收到已知性掠夺者的示好。
So the fact that this company can target you and know that I'm wearing Warby Parkers and start serving me ads by looking at the screen, or know that I'm at Coachella listening to David Byrne and start serving me albums of David Byrne's greatest hits, then they can figure out that a 12-year-old girl shouldn't be getting overtures from 55-year-old men.
因此，事实上，这家公司可以瞄准你，知道我穿着 Warby Parkers 并开始通过看屏幕向我提供广告，或者知道我在 Coachella 听 David Byrne 并开始向我提供 David Byrne 最热门歌曲的专辑，然后他们就会发现一个 12 岁的女孩不应该受到 55 岁男人的示好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'll bracket that sentence, that very fair and very important statement, that if there were some balance of optimization towards real protections, that that is important.
我将把这句话放在括号里，这是一个非常公平且非常重要的声明，如果在真正的保护方面存在一些优化平衡，那就很重要。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
But they made, I think, $11 billion last year from people under the age of 18.
但我认为，他们去年从 18 岁以下人群那里赚取了 110 亿美元。
But you asked who's to blame?
但你问这是谁的错？
We're to blame, because we haven't elected people who are willing to hold these companies accountable, and their sole mission is to get reelected.
我们应该受到责备，因为我们没有选出愿意让这些公司承担责任的人，而他们唯一的使命就是连任。
And in 97% of elections, whoever raises the most money gets reelected.
在 97% 的选举中，谁筹集的资金最多，谁就能连任。
And these companies are now the fastest growing expense line amongst big tech isn't AI as a percentage basis, it isn't R&D, isn't CapEx, it's lobbying.
这些公司现在是大型科技公司中增长最快的支出项目，不是以百分比为基础的人工智能，不是研发，不是资本支出，而是游说。
Because the greatest ROI in history is spending money on politicians.
因为历史上最大的投资回报率就是把钱花在政客身上。
I give money to politicians because I'm getting more politically active, and it doesn't surprise me that they're whores.
我给政客钱是因为我在政治上变得更加活跃，而且他们是妓女我并不感到惊讶。
The most disappointing thing is what cheap whores they are.
最令人失望的是她们是多么廉价的妓女。
If I give $50,000 to a senator, he'll have dinner with me when he's in New York, or she.
如果我给一位参议员 50,000 美元，他在纽约时会与我共进晚餐，或者她。
Because they have to.
因为他们必须这样做。
Because the system is set up such that whoever raises the most money gets elected, and big tech has figured that out.
因为这个系统的设置是，谁筹集的资金最多，谁就当选，而大型科技公司已经意识到了这一点。
So until we have the judgment to elect people who are willing to stand up to big tech and actually implement safe and common sense regulation, I don't want them to go out of business.
因此，在我们有判断力选出愿意对抗大型科技并实际实施安全和常识性监管的人之前，我不希望他们倒闭。
Let our thoroughbreds run.
让我们的纯种马奔跑吧。
I actually believe the American model of less regulation versus more is one of the reasons we're much more successful than Europe, which hasn't grown in 20 years.
事实上，我相信美国的监管较少与监管较多的模式是我们比欧洲更成功的原因之一，欧洲已经 20 年没有增长了。
But this has gotten to a point where we seem to have a total lack of regard for our children's well-being and the fact that Americans hate each other, and that we're kind of eating ourselves from the inside out.
但现在已经到了这样的地步：我们似乎完全不关心孩子们的福祉，事实上，美国人彼此仇恨，我们从内到外都在自食其果。
So again, we need an EPA and an FDA or some sort of equivalent for big tech, especially with AI.
再说一次，我们需要 EPA 和 FDA 或类似的大型科技机构，尤其是人工智能。
But I want to acknowledge the point.
但我想承认这一点。
None of this could have happened without fossil fuels.
如果没有化石燃料，这一切都不会发生。
There is a trade-off here, right?
这里有一个权衡，对吗？
Pesticides are important for our food safety, but there is an FDA.
农药对我们的食品安全很重要，但有 FDA。
We have decided to just let big tech run unfettered, and I think it's been gotten to the point where it's pretty damaging for society.
我们决定让大型科技不受限制地运行，我认为它已经到了对社会造成相当大损害的地步。
I think we've robbed kids.
我认为我们抢劫了孩子。
My kids are in the kill zone, 15 and 18.
我的两个孩子分别是 15 岁和 18 岁，正处于死亡地带。
I think they've been robbed of a lot of their youth.
我觉得他们的青春被剥夺了很多。
I understand this shit, and I have a son who has device addiction, who will lie, take his phone, say he doesn't feel well, take his phone into the bathroom for 45 minutes, and I have to bang on the door and jokingly scream, "Start masturbating," because this kid is addicted to TikTok.
我理解这一点，我有一个对设备成瘾的儿子，他会撒谎，拿走他的手机，说他感觉不舒服，带着手机进浴室45分钟，我不得不敲门并开玩笑地尖叫，“开始自慰”，因为这孩子沉迷于TikTok。
What the British did to the Chinese in terms of getting them addicted to opium, I think that the Chinese, via porous platforms that are shareholder driven in the GRU, are addicting our youth, and we're going to raise a generation of civic, nonprofit, and military leaders who fucking hate America.
英国人对中国人所做的让他们对鸦片上瘾，我认为中国人通过格鲁乌股东驱动的漏洞百出的平台，正在让我们的年轻人上瘾，我们将培养出一代讨厌美国的公民、非营利组织和军事领导人。
We are teaching kids to hate each other, hate America, hate every special interest group, hate every ideology that doesn't fit their own, and there's no grace around what it means now, fortunate are we to be American.
我们正在教孩子们互相憎恨，憎恨美国，憎恨每一个特殊利益集团，憎恨每一种不适合他们自己的意识形态，而现在这意味着什么都没有恩典，幸运的是我们是美国人。
And I think at the center of it is a total lack of regulation amongst these incredibly brilliant companies.
我认为问题的核心是这些极其出色的公司完全缺乏监管。
The most technologically sophisticated, deepest pocketed companies in the world are trying to sequester our youth from us, and they're stealing youth.
世界上技术最先进、财力最雄厚的公司正试图从我们身边夺走我们的青春，而他们正在窃取青春。
The number of kids who see their friends every day has been cut in half the last 20 years.
过去 20 年来，每天见到朋友的孩子数量减少了一半。
Men between the ages of 20 and 30 are spending less time outdoors, Andrew, than prison inmates.
安德鲁，20 岁到 30 岁之间的男性户外活动时间比监狱囚犯要少。
We are robbing youth because we refuse to regulate these companies.
我们正在掠夺年轻人，因为我们拒绝监管这些公司。
So do I want these companies to go away?
那么我希望这些公司消失吗？
Do I think they're bad people?
我认为他们是坏人吗？
No, but we have a system that values wealth and shareholder value above all.
不，但我们有一个重视财富和股东价值高于一切的体系。
And so tech CEOs and their boards will make a series of incremental decisions regardless of the damage to the public, and we have a set of elected leaders that don't do their job, and that is they're there to prevent a tragedy to the commons, and it's Democrats and Republicans.
因此，科技公司的首席执行官及其董事会将做出一系列渐进的决定，无论对公众造成的损害如何，我们有一群民选领导人不履行自己的职责，他们的职责是防止公共悲剧发生，而他们是民主党人和共和党人。
So it comes down to very boring shit.
所以这归结为非常无聊的狗屎。
Unless we reform Citizens United, unless we de-gerrymander the United States Congress, money is going to win, and these companies have more money.
除非我们改革公民联合组织，除非我们取消美国国会的选区划分，否则钱就会获胜，而这些公司就会有更多的钱。
But no, I would push back.
但不，我会反击。
I think these companies are starting to do a lot of damage to our youth.
我认为这些公司开始对我们的年轻人造成很大的伤害。
I'm worried my kids are going to grow up so used to getting dopa so easily and squeezing it so fast, and this is your field, that we're flushing into society a series of young people who are so ready for addiction because they're so used to getting an automatic dopa by just flipping out their phone really fast.
我担心我的孩子长大后会习惯于如此轻松地获得多巴并如此快速地服用，这是你的领域，我们正在将一系列准备上瘾的年轻人涌入社会，因为他们习惯于通过快速翻动手机来获得自动多巴。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One thing that I don't think I've emphasized enough on this podcast, certainly not this, but other episodes as well, is a kind of reframe around the dopamine and phones.
我认为我在这个播客中强调得不够多的一件事，当然不是这个，而是其他剧集，是一种围绕多巴胺和手机的重新构建。
I'm not trying to correct you here, but I think it might be helpful for this discussion and for people listening too.
我并不是想在这里纠正你，但我认为这可能对这次讨论以及对听众有所帮助。
We need to move our minds away from the idea that the phone is providing these dopamine hits, because it's not.
我们需要摆脱手机提供这些多巴胺的想法，因为事实并非如此。
The behavior with social media, but phones generally-
社交媒体的行为，但通常是手机——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is a lot more akin to true clinical grade obsessive compulsive disorder.
更类似于真正的临床级强迫症。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Colleagues of mine that work on obsessive compulsive disorder, I just want to give a shout-out to the pioneer of this field was a woman I just adored, Judith Rapoport.
我的同事们致力于研究强迫症，我只想向这个领域的先驱者大声喊叫，她是我刚刚崇拜的一位女性，朱迪思·拉波波特 (Judith Rapoport)。
She passed away recently.
她最近去世了。
People can look up her obit.
人们可以查阅她的讣告。
There's a really nice one in the "Times." Identified the brain structures associated with this thing that we call OCD, right?
《泰晤士报》上有一篇非常好的文章。确定了与我们称之为强迫症的东西相关的大脑结构，对吧？
Hand washing, scratching, hair pulling, all the variations of it.
洗手、抓挠、拉头发，诸如此类。
What defines obsessive compulsive disorder is that the engagement in the behavior The compulsion doesn't relieve the obsession.
强迫症的定义是，参与强迫行为并不能缓解强迫症。
So to call someone OCD because they need everything perfect, but then when it's perfect, they're like, "Okay, I can relax." That's not OCD.
所以称某人为强迫症是因为他们需要一切完美，但当一切都完美时，他们会说，“好吧，我可以放松了。”那不是强迫症。
OCD is when you engage in a compulsive behavior over and over again, and all it does is serve to reinforce the obsession.
强迫症是指你一遍又一遍地从事强迫行为，而它所做的只是强化这种强迫行为。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That, to me, more closely mimics what I see in terms of phone use-
对我来说，这更接近于我在手机使用方面所看到的情况——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
than the idea that it's like, "No way, this amazing thing on the phone." That comes every once in a while, but after you've spent a day or so on social media or on YouTube, we are all engaging in a much more passive, slow degradation kind of way that I'm sure impacts the dopamine pathway.
而不是“不可能，手机上有这么神奇的东西”这样的想法。这种情况每隔一段时间就会发生一次，但是当你在社交媒体或 YouTube 上呆了一天左右之后，我们都会陷入一种更加被动、缓慢的退化方式，我确信这会影响多巴胺通路。
In fact, OCD is directly tied to the dopamine pathway, so I'm not divorcing it from dopamine.
事实上，强迫症与多巴胺通路直接相关，所以我不会将它与多巴胺分开。
But I think if we started to look at our relationship to the phone as more of an induced obsessive compulsive disorder-
但我认为，如果我们开始将我们与手机的关系视为一种诱发的强迫症——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
than an addiction, I actually think that's one of the potential ways out.
比起上瘾，我实际上认为这是潜在的出路之一。
Not just because words matter and concepts matter, but because I think in order to get out of that loop, you have to see yourself from the outside, and you have to realize that you're being hijacked.
不仅因为言语和概念很重要，而且因为我认为为了摆脱这个循环，你必须从外部看待自己，你必须意识到你被劫持了。
I think right now there's just so much incentive for being on it, for being in the bathroom, looking at the phone.
我认为现在有太多的动机去使用它，去浴室，看手机。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Look, I'm not addicted to my phone, but I will tell you, there are days when I feel like I pick up that thing even though I don't want to.
听着，我对手机并不上瘾，但我会告诉你，有时候我觉得我拿起了那个东西，尽管我不想。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that's different than addiction.
这与成瘾不同。
I know what addiction feels like.
我知道上瘾是什么感觉。
That's not addiction.
那不是成瘾。
That's happening just reflexively.
这只是条件反射地发生。
People aren't even thinking about it.
人们甚至没有考虑过它。
The lack of awareness is just not there.
缺乏意识并不存在。
So forgive me for going on this tangent, but as you're saying everything today, I'm trying to think solutions.
所以请原谅我跑题了，但正如你今天所说的一切，我正在努力思考解决方案。
And I know Mark.
我认识马克。
I actually am friendly with Mark, so-
我实际上和马克很友好，所以-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I think they care.
我认为他们关心。
I do think they care.
我确实认为他们关心。
I think they've created something so big that it's very hard to navigate and keep up with shareholders and all this stuff.
我认为他们创造了如此庞大的东西，以至于很难驾驭并跟上股东和所有这些东西的步伐。
But I would love to see the world's relationship to their phones and social media change so that it is more in our individual control-
但我希望看到世界与手机和社交媒体的关系发生变化，以便更多地由我们个人控制——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
more benevolent.
更加仁慈。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
But that's against their economic interest, and they'll fight that tooth and nail.
但这违背了他们的经济利益，他们会竭尽全力与之抗争。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I wonder if there is a way to incentivize that.
但我想知道是否有一种方法可以激励这一点。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Well, let's talk about that.
好吧，我们来谈谈这个吧。
So-
所以——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm trying to think of solutions.
我正在尝试思考解决方案。
Yeah.
是的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
So let's move to solutions.
那么让我们转向解决方案。
One, antitrust.
一、反垄断。
I don't think Meta should've ever been allowed to buy Instagram.
我认为 Meta 不应该被允许购买 Instagram。
I think their ability, their scale of data suppresses any formidable competitor.
我认为他们的能力、他们的数据规模压制了任何强大的竞争对手。
Two-thirds of all social media now goes to one company.
现在所有社交媒体的三分之二都流向一家公司。
And with a lack of competition, there's really no oxygen for a company that might say, "We're not going to allow 18-year-olds on here.
由于缺乏竞争，一家可能会说“我们不会允许 18 岁的人加入这里”的公司确实没有氧气。
Any content that's incendiary, anything that looks like it's been weaponized by bots or might be from a bad foreign actor, we're not going to allow it." I think there's a lot of parents and a lot of people who would like to be on that platform.
任何煽动性的内容，任何看起来像是被机器人武器化或可能来自不良外国演员的内容，我们都不会允许。”我认为有很多家长和很多人都想加入这个平台。
The game's over.
游戏结束了。
They've won.
他们赢了。
I don't think Google should've been allowed to buy YouTube.
我认为 Google 不应该被允许购买 YouTube。
And people say, "Well, they're great companies." If YouTube was divested from Google, the next day, YouTube would decide to start a basic search algorithm, and Google would start another video platform, and we'd have two competitors, and there'd be lower rents on labor and on advertisers.
人们说：“嗯，他们是伟大的公司。”如果 YouTube 从 Google 剥离，第二天 YouTube 将决定启动基本搜索算法，而 Google 将启动另一个视频平台，我们就会有两个竞争对手，劳动力和广告商的租金也会降低。
Competition is an amazing thing.
竞争是一件了不起的事情。
These companies are a set of distinct monopolies that extract rents from labor, from the consumer, and from the wellbeing of America.
这些公司是一组独特的垄断企业，它们从劳动力、消费者和美国的福祉中榨取租金。
So antitrust, Senator Klobuchar's done great work here.
因此，在反垄断方面，参议员克洛布彻（Klobuchar）在这里做了出色的工作。
Basically, she says, "I'm overrun." She's like, "I got a staff of 60 people.
基本上，她说，“我已经超支了。”她说，“我有 60 名员工。
There are 200 lawyers hired by Meta and Facebook who are doing nothing but getting in the way of anything to do with antitrust and giving money to people who will delay and obfuscate anything around antitrust." Two, removal of Section 230 for algorithmically elevated content.
Meta 和 Facebook 雇佣了 200 名律师，他们除了妨碍任何与反垄断有关的事情，并向那些拖延和混淆反垄断相关事情的人提供金钱之外，什么也没做。”第二，删除通过算法提升内容的第 230 条。
Their basic premise is, "We're not a media company.
他们的基本前提是：“我们不是一家媒体公司。
We're just a platform.
我们只是一个平台。
We're just putting stuff on a board." Well, okay, but if you decide this content gets more views, they elevate it.
我们只是把东西放在板上。”好吧，但是如果你认为此内容会获得更多观看次数，他们就会提升它。
They make the decision to elevate it.
他们决定提升它。
And sometimes the content they elevate is not good for the mental health of America.
有时他们提升的内容不利于美国人的心理健康。
It tears at the fabric of America.
它撕裂了美国的结构。
I think if you algorithmically elevate content, you should be subject to the same liability as, say, News Corp.
我认为，如果你通过算法提升内容，你应该承担与新闻集团相同的责任。
When News Corp and Fox told its on-air anchors to repeat a lie that they knew was a lie, that Smartmatic voting machines had been weaponized by Hugo Chávez, and they knew it was a lie, and then Smartmatic sues them and says, "You caused us economic harm," they had to pay a $750 million fine.
当新闻集团和福克斯告诉其直播主播重复他们明知是谎言的谎言时，Smartmatic 投票机已被乌戈·查韦斯武器化，他们也知道这是谎言，然后 Smartmatic 起诉他们并说，“你们给我们造成了经济损失”，他们不得不支付 7.5 亿美元的罚款。
What happened on Fox was a dumpster fire compared to the nuclear mushroom cloud of what happened on Facebook that day.
与当天 Facebook 上发生的核蘑菇云事件相比，Fox 上发生的事情就像一场垃圾箱火灾。
But these nascent platforms, which in 1997, we were trying to give them running room, those protections are in place for tech platforms that are not in place for media companies.
但是这些新兴平台，在 1997 年，我们试图给它们提供运行空间，这些保护措施适用于科技平台，而媒体公司却没有。
So if you algorithmically elevate content, you are now a media company.
因此，如果您通过算法提升内容，那么您现在就是一家媒体公司。
You should be subject to the same liability as every other media company.
您应该承担与其他媒体公司相同的责任。
And then finally, three, age gate this shit.
最后，三，年龄门这个狗屎。
The downside of Instagram and YouTube for 15-year-olds is way greater than the upside.
对于 15 岁的年轻人来说，Instagram 和 YouTube 的弊大于利。
And people who say to me, "Scott, this is about parenting," that's a tell for they don't have kids.
人们对我说，“斯科特，这是关于养育子女的”，这是因为他们没有孩子。
This is where they get their homework, and my colleague at NYU, Adam Alter, who also has an appointment at the psychology department, said, "When you take kids off of screens totally, it actually is more damaging to their mental health because they're ostracized from all social activity." And what's happened, the greatest uptick in school scores in recent history is when they do what my buddy Jonathan Haidt suggests these schools do, and they ban their phones.
这是他们做作业的地方，我在纽约大学的同事亚当·阿尔特（Adam Alter）也有心理学系的预约，他说：“当你让孩子们完全远离屏幕时，实际上对他们的心理健康造成的损害更大，因为他们被排斥在所有社交活动之外。”发生的事情是，近代历史上学校成绩最大的上升是当他们按照我的朋友乔纳森·海特建议这些学校所做的那样时，他们禁止使用手机。
So I think there are common sense solutions that keep a lot of the good stuff these companies do while recognizing, well, maybe a 14-year-old shouldn't be spending seven hours a day on TikTok or Instagram while his or her single mother is at work and can't police it.
因此，我认为有一些常识性的解决方案可以保留这些公司所做的很多好东西，同时认识到，也许一个 14 岁的孩子不应该每天花 7 个小时在 TikTok 或 Instagram 上，而他或她的单亲母亲却在工作，无法监管。
So I think there are common sense solutions and a meeting of the minds here, but everything I propose, they will spend tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars to get in the way of and make sure it never happens again.
因此，我认为这里有常识性的解决方案和共识，但我提出的所有建议，他们都会花费数千万甚至数亿美元来阻止并确保这种情况不再发生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I really appreciate your answer.
我真的很感谢你的回答。
I like to think that they are listening, especially in the wake of these recent lawsuits, where they had to pay out, granted, a drop in the ocean compared to their total revenue, but those were very public cases, and maybe I'm overly optimistic.
我喜欢认为他们正在倾听，特别是在最近的这些诉讼之后，他们不得不支付的费用，理所当然，与他们的总收入相比只是九牛一毛，但这些都是非常公开的案件，也许我过于乐观了。
I like to think that They care enough to pay attention.
我喜欢认为他们足够关心和关注。
Look, many of those guys, it's mostly guys running those companies now.
看，这些人中有很多人，现在主要是这些人在经营这些公司。
YouTube used to be a woman, but now almost all of them are run by guys.
YouTube 曾经是女性经营的，但现在几乎全部由男性经营。
They have kids.
他们有孩子。
I can guarantee their kids don't spend a ton of time on their phones.
我可以保证他们的孩子不会在手机上花费大量时间。
That they're-
他们是——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
They send them to schools where they're not allowed to be on screens.
他们把他们送到不允许他们出现在屏幕上的学校。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
They're doing their job.
他们正在做他们的工作。
We're not doing ours.
我们没有做我们自己的事。
I don't even kind of resent them.
我什至不讨厌他们。
I think Mark Zuckerberg has been especially damaging, but they're doing their job.
我认为马克·扎克伯格的破坏性尤其大，但他们正在尽自己的职责。
Capitalist society has to have for-profit companies that, within the bounds of law, make a lot of money.
资本主义社会必须有营利性公司，在法律范围内赚很多钱。
Look, you can't have a Navy, you can't have innovation, you can't have parks unless you have the tax revenue to support this shit.
听着，除非你有税收来支持这些东西，否则你不可能拥有海军，你不可能拥有创新，你也不可能拥有公园。
So we need our thoroughbreds to run.
所以我们需要纯种马来奔跑。
They're great companies, but there's basic common sense regulation that should be applied that they've managed to delay and obfuscate and ensure it never happens to them.
他们是伟大的公司，但应该应用一些基本的常识性法规，他们已经设法推迟和混淆并确保这种情况永远不会发生在他们身上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Function.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 Function。
Function provides over 160 advanced lab tests to give you a clear snapshot of your bodily health.
功能提供超过 160 项高级实验室测试，让您清晰了解自己的身体健康状况。
This snapshot gives insights into your heart health, hormone health, autoimmune function, nutrient levels, and much more.
此快照可深入了解您的心脏健康、激素健康、自身免疫功能、营养水平等。
They've also recently added access to advanced MRI and CT scans.
他们最近还增加了先进的 MRI 和 CT 扫描的访问权限。
Function not only provides testing of over 160 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, it also analyzes these results and provides recommendations for improving your health from top doctors.
Function 不仅提供对您身心健康至关重要的 160 多种生物标记物的测试，还分析这些结果并提供顶级医生改善您健康的建议。
For example, in a recent test with Function, I learned that some of my blood lipids were slightly out of range.
例如，在最近的一次 Function 测试中，我发现我的一些血脂稍微超出了范围。
As a result, I decided to start supplementing with nattokinase, which can naturally help reduce LDL cholesterol, and it did.
因此，我决定开始补充纳豆激酶，它自然可以帮助降低低密度脂蛋白胆固醇，而且确实如此。
In a follow-up test, I could confirm that this strategy worked.
在后续测试中，我可以确认这个策略是有效的。
My blood lipids are now back where I want them, in range.
我的血脂现在回到了我想要的范围内。
Comprehensive lab testing of the sort that Function offers is so important for health.
Function 提供的全面实验室测试对于健康非常重要。
And while I've been doing it for years, it's always been overly complicated and expensive.
虽然我已经这样做了很多年，但它总是过于复杂和昂贵。
But now with Function, it's extremely easy and affordable.
但现在有了 Function，它变得非常简单且经济实惠。
To learn more, visit functionhealth.com/huberman and use the code Huberman for a $50 credit towards your membership.
要了解更多信息，请访问 functionhealth.com/huberman 并使用代码 Huberman 获得 50 美元的会员积分。
Glad you mentioned the Navy.
很高兴你提到海军。
Recently, I was invited out to the Naval Academy in Annapolis, and had the privilege of giving a talk to 4,000 midshipmen, which includes both young men and women.
最近，我受邀前往安纳波利斯海军学院，并有幸向 4,000 名海军见习官发表演讲，其中包括年轻男女。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was an amazing experience.
这是一次奇妙的经历。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I bet.
我敢打赌。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'll tell you this.
我会告诉你这一点。
A guy who's been a guest on this podcast was the one that organized this, Coleman Ruiz.
组织这个播客的是科尔曼·鲁伊斯（Coleman Ruiz），他是这个播客的嘉宾。
He has an amazing life story.
他有一个令人惊奇的人生故事。
He's not particularly public-facing, but amazing story of his own life.
他并不是特别面向公众，但他自己的人生故事却令人惊叹。
Okay, so you go there and all these young men and women are, of course, in their cadet fatigues and-
好吧，你去那里，所有这些年轻男女当然都穿着军校迷彩服，而且——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
going about.
正在走动。
They live two to a dorm room.
他们两人住一间宿舍。
They do PT, physical activity, every morning at 5:00 a.m.
他们每天早上 5:00 进行 PT（身体活动）。
Lunch was the most incredible experience.
午餐是最令人难以置信的经历。
You walk into a dining hall with thousands of men and women, tons of noise.
你走进一个餐厅，里面有成千上万的男人和女人，一片喧闹。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A bell goes off, everyone's quiet, everyone sits down.
铃声响起，大家安静下来，大家坐下。
A bell goes off, everyone starts eating.
铃声响起，大家开始吃饭。
Fifteen minutes later, bell goes off, everyone stands up and walks out.
十五分钟后，铃声响起，大家起身向外走去。
Everyone has to play a sport competitively.
每个人都必须参加一项有竞争力的运动。
Everyone there is forbidden from using their phone-
那里的每个人都被禁止使用手机-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
most all of the day and night.
大部分时间都是白天和晚上。
One member of this dorm room might be studying while their roommate is sleeping.
该宿舍的一名成员可能正在学习，而他们的室友正在睡觉。
Every single question was about how to be a better human being physically, mentally, emotionally.
每个问题都是关于如何在身体、心理和情感上成为一个更好的人。
And this visit was right in the early days of the recent war with Iran, so they had a lot to worry about, and they're very close to all these things.
这次访问正值最近与伊朗的战争初期，所以他们有很多事情需要担心，而且他们已经非常接近所有这些事情了。
A young woman came up to me and told me that she's part of the space program now.
一位年轻女士走过来告诉我，她现在是太空计划的一部分。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The military space program.
军事太空计划。
Amazing.
惊人的。
Just the complete contrast to everything that we're talking about.
与我们正在谈论的一切形成鲜明对比。
And I thought to myself, "Goodness, young people like this still exist."
我心里想：“天啊，这样的年轻人还存在。”
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All firm handshakes, all eye contact.
所有的握手，所有的目光接触。
And by the way, every color you could possibly imagine.
顺便说一下，你能想象到的每一种颜色都有。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Every color you could possibly imagine.
你能想象到的每一种颜色。
Every stature you could possibly imagine.
您能想象到的各种身材。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Every income class.
每个收入阶层。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Every income class.
每个收入阶层。
I would ask people, "Where are you from?" Part of the meet and greet.
我会问人们：“你从哪里来？”见面打招呼的一部分。
The problem was they were like, my problem is I actually want to know about-
问题是他们就像，我的问题是我实际上想知道-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where people are from, what their name is, what they're interested in.
人们来自哪里，他们叫什么，他们对什么感兴趣。
That can just take days, right?
这可能只需要几天时间，对吗？
But it was incredible.
但这太不可思议了。
And I thought to myself, "Okay, there's hope." We came out of there, our team was like, "Yeah." There's hope.
我心想：“好吧，还有希望。”我们离开那里，我们的团队就像，“是的。”还有希望。
Okay, it's associated with the military.
好吧，这和军队有关。
I'm sure people will scratch at that point, but thank God that these kids and this thing that we call the Navy exists.
我相信人们会在这一点上挠痒痒，但感谢上帝，这些孩子和我们称之为海军的东西存在。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because it was so inspiring.
因为它太鼓舞人心了。
It made me level up as a 50-year-old man who thinks he's got his shit mostly together, emphasis on mostly.
这让我成为一个 50 岁的男人，他认为自己已经把事情搞定了，重点是大部分。
I was like, "Whoa, I need to step it up." Now, probably their only, quote unquote, "flaw" was I did a poll.
我当时想，“哇，我需要加紧努力。”现在，他们唯一的“缺陷”可能是我做了一项民意调查。
There were a lot of questions about nicotine.
关于尼古丁有很多疑问。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I asked approximately what percentage of the room takes nicotine every day, and I would say about 20 to 30% of the hands in the room went up.
我问房间里大约有多少人每天吸食尼古丁，我会说房间里大约有 20% 到 30% 的人举手了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nicotine is in major use in young people.
尼古丁主要用于年轻人。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Are they using the, I forget what it's called, pouches?
他们用的是我忘了叫什么的袋子吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The oral nicotine.
口服尼古丁。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Which, by the way, don't cause cancer, but yes, it's very addictive, raises blood pressure, and I'm not encouraging people to do it.
顺便说一句，这不会导致癌症，但是，是的，它很容易上瘾，会升高血压，我不鼓励人们这样做。
But this brings me around to a separate point.
但这让我想到了一个单独的观点。
I just wanted to kind of paint that picture.
我只是想画出那幅画。
But to a separate point, you and I have never had a public argument, nor are we going to now, about alcohol or about cannabis.
但另外一点，你和我从未就酒精或大麻问题进行过公开争论，现在也不会。
But you and I share somewhat different views on alcohol.
但你和我对酒精的看法有些不同。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've been very vocal, and perhaps our most popular episode ever-
我一直非常直言不讳，也许是我们有史以来最受欢迎的一集——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
was the episode on alcohol.
是关于酒精的一集。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I didn't foresee that.
我没有预见到这一点。
And the deal is zero is better than any if we're strictly looking at health.
如果我们严格考虑健康问题，零交易比任何交易都要好。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Two per week is probably fine.
每周两次可能就可以了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're going to drink more, you should probably do a bunch of other things to reduce inflammation and offset it and get good sleep and et cetera.
如果你想喝更多的酒，你可能应该做一些其他的事情来减少炎症和抵消炎症，并获得良好的睡眠等等。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm not telling people what to do.
我不会告诉人们该做什么。
They should just know what they're doing.
他们应该只知道自己在做什么。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You've made the argument quite aptly that alcohol can be an important social lubricant for-
你非常恰当地提出了酒精可以成为重要的社交润滑剂的论点——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
young and older people-
年轻人和老年人——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
so that they can socialize and have a life.
这样他们就可以社交并拥有自己的生活。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I worry that if young people now drink more, they're going to end up drinking alone.
我担心如果年轻人现在喝酒更多，他们最终会独自喝酒。
They're going to end up-
他们最终会——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
masturbating to porn more alone.
更孤独地自慰色情。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're going to end up with more hangovers after all their alone behavior.
在经历了所有的孤独行为之后，他们最终会经历更多的宿醉。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think what you've argued for is the notion of healthy fraternity, healthy dating, and socializing.
我认为你所争论的是健康的兄弟情谊、健康的约会和社交的概念。
You've mentioned bars a couple times.
您曾多次提到酒吧。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Alcohol as something that can bring people together in a positive way.
酒精可以让人们以积极的方式聚集在一起。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you don't mind, if you could elaborate on that, and maybe I'll just toss out cannabis as another one-
如果你不介意的话，如果你能详细说明一下，也许我会扔掉大麻作为另一种——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because cannabis has problems and I'll acknowledge benefits of its own.
因为大麻有问题，但我承认它本身的好处。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
So I want to go to the first thing.
所以我想谈谈第一件事。
First is, I want to just touch on Navy.
首先，我想谈谈海军。
I went to Annapolis when I was 17, and it was because my dad was looking to get out of paying for college and decided I should go to Annapolis, and he took me, and we did a tour.
我 17 岁的时候去了安纳波利斯，因为我父亲想摆脱大学学费，所以决定我应该去安纳波利斯，他带我去，我们去了一趟。
And we weren't very sophisticated, and it became so clear so fast that I was totally unqualified for Annapolis.
我们还不是很老练，而且事情很快就变得如此明显，以至于我完全没有资格参加安纳波利斯。
Like the kids, the average SAT, these are the finest young men and women in the world.
就像孩子们的平均 SAT 成绩一样，他们是世界上最优秀的年轻男女。
And also, you have to get a recommendation from a senator, and it was just so ridiculous that we were even there.
而且，你必须得到参议员的推荐，而我们甚至在那里，这真是太荒谬了。
I was just not of that quality and that standard, but my dad was in the Royal Navy and decided, "Go to Annapolis because we don't have to pay for it." Anyways, but that was the last time I was at Annapolis.
我只是不具备那样的素质和标准，但我的父亲在皇家海军服役，他决定，“去安纳波利斯，因为我们不需要为此付费。”无论如何，但那是我最后一次来到安纳波利斯。
But if I could have one policy, so I'm advising a lot of Democrats running for president, which is like 40 of them right now, who all claim they're not running.
但如果我能制定一项政策，那么我建议很多民主党人竞选总统，目前大约有 40 人，他们都声称自己不参加竞选。
They're all running.
他们都在奔跑。
If you call me and say you're really interested in my viewpoint, it means you want my money and you're running for president, and I just say, "Look, that's fine.
如果你打电话给我并说你对我的观点真的感兴趣，那就意味着你想要我的钱并且你正在竞选总统，我只是说，“听着，那很好。
Come on the podcast and I'll write you a check." If I could have one policy, one blanket, if I had a magic wand, one policy, it'd be mandatory national service.
来播客吧，我会给你写一张支票。”如果我能有一项政策，一条毯子，如果我有一根魔杖，一项政策，那就是义务兵役。
If you look at the lowest levels of young adult depression in the West, it's two countries, it's Israel and Singapore.
如果你看看西方年轻人抑郁症水平最低的国家，那就是以色列和新加坡这两个国家。
And despite all the existential threats facing Israel, what does mandatory national service do?
尽管以色列面临着所有的生存威胁，但义务兵役有什么作用呢？
It gives you the sense that you're serving the agency of something bigger than yourself.
它让你感觉你正在为比你自己更大的机构服务。
It gives you purpose.
它给你目标。
You're handling dangerous equipment.
您正在处理危险设备。
It's the great equalizer.
这是伟大的均衡器。
You don't care that this gay kid is totally different than you.
你不在乎这个同性恋孩子与你完全不同。
You respond to his or her character and competence.
您对他或她的性格和能力做出回应。
Because if you're getting fired on, you don't give a shit how rich their father is.
因为如果你被解雇了，你根本不在乎他们的父亲有多富有。
All you want to know is, is this person good at what they do?
你想知道的是，这个人擅长他们所做的事情吗？
And you put people's lives in your hands, and they put their life in your hands, and you're serving in the agency of something bigger than yourself.
你把人们的生命放在你的手中，他们也把他们的生命放在你的手中，而你正在为比你自己更大的机构服务。
I spent time with an IDF battalion in Israel and had the same kind of experience it sounds like you had at Annapolis.
我在以色列的一个以色列国防军营待过一段时间，并且有过与您在安纳波利斯相同的经历。
These are young, beautiful, fit people outside all day meeting friends, mentors, and mates.
这些人年轻、美丽、健康，整天在外面结识朋友、导师和伴侣。
In Singapore, the president there, who's arguably one of the greatest leaders of the last century, said, "This is the most religiously diverse society in the world.
在新加坡，可以说是上世纪最伟大领导人之一的总统说：“这是世界上宗教最多元化的社会。
We're going to have ethnic violence.
我们将会发生种族暴力。
There'll be a strong man who will weaponize this diversity and get people to turn against each other.
将会有一个强者将这种多样性武器化，让人们互相敌对。
So we need a different religion, and it's going to be the flag.
所以我们需要一个不同的宗教，它就是旗帜。
And we need to get people praying to the flag again." And if you look at the great legislation in America in the '60s and '70s, which was probably the most productive, unified time in America, it's because many of our elected leaders had all served in the same uniform, and they saw themselves as Americans before they saw themselves as Republicans or Democrats.
我们需要让人们再次向国旗祈祷。”如果你看看美国在 60 年代和 70 年代的伟大立法，那可能是美国最富有成效、最统一的时期，这是因为我们许多当选的领导人都穿着同样的制服，他们在将自己视为共和党人或民主党人之前先将自己视为美国人。
And I'm not just saying military service, senior care, donating time at a no-kill animal shelter, being a smokejumper.
我所说的不仅仅是服兵役、老年护理、在无杀戮动物收容所捐献时间、成为一名空降灭火员。
There's a lot of ways to serve.
服务的方式有很多种。
But I think young Americans would benefit so enormously from getting outside of their own circle and seeing just how wonderful America and Americans are, and having a chance.
但我认为，年轻的美国人如果走出自己的圈子，看到美国和美国人有多么美好，并有机会，将会受益匪浅。
And not only that, people say, "Well, it's easy for you to say.
不仅如此，人们还说：“嗯，你说起来很容易。
You've aged out." I can tell you, as a father of boys, if we set it up well and invested in it, I think they would really enjoy a rotation through different parts of America and different opportunities to serve.
你已经老了。”我可以告诉你，作为男孩的父亲，如果我们设置得好并对此进行投资，我认为他们会真正享受到美国不同地区的轮换和不同的服务机会。
So the one thing I would do, going back to Annapolis and the IDF and what they do in Singapore, is mandatory national service.
因此，我要做的一件事是，回到安纳波利斯和以色列国防军以及他们在新加坡所做的事情，那就是义务兵役。
On drinking, first, my acknowledgment, as it relates to the intake of any substance, if it's Andrew Huberman or Scott Galloway, defer to Andrew Huberman's advice.
关于饮酒，首先，我承认，因为它与任何物质的摄入有关，如果是安德鲁·胡伯曼或斯科特·加洛韦，请听从安德鲁·胡伯曼的建议。
I just want to say that upfront.
我只是想提前说一下。
You just have the qualifications and the domain expertise here.
您只拥有这里的资格和领域专业知识。
I think, personally, the risks to a 25-year-old liver are dwarfed by the risks of social isolation.
我个人认为，25 岁的肝脏所面临的风险与社会隔离的风险相形见绌。
And I worry that with 40% fewer pubs now post-COVID in Britain and a lack of mating and a lack of connection, that the data I've seen, and correct me if I'm wrong, that 95% of people are able to integrate alcohol and drugs into their life without serious consequences.
我担心，新冠疫情过后，英国的酒吧数量减少了 40%，而且缺乏交配和联系，根据我看到的数据（如果我错了请纠正我），95% 的人能够将酒精和毒品融入他们的生活，而不会造成严重后果。
If you have a history of addiction, if you, for whatever reason, don't enjoy it, then by all means, avoid it.
如果您有成瘾史，如果您出于某种原因不喜欢它，那么请务必避免它。
If people are telling you that you're having an issue or a problem, or it's getting in the way of your work life, or you're one of those people that gets violent or mean under the influence, then for God's sakes, tone it down.
如果人们告诉你，你遇到了麻烦或问题，或者它妨碍了你的工作生活，或者你是那些在影响下变得暴力或刻薄的人之一，那么看在上帝的份上，把声音调低一些。
But what I ask people is to look back on their younger days and say, "What is the most important thing in your life?" Relationships, friendships, finding someone to mate with.
但我要求人们回顾自己的年轻时光并问自己：“你生命中最重要的事情是什么？”人际关系、友谊、寻找伴侣。
And I ask them, did alcohol play a role?
我问他们，酒精起作用了吗？
It's not easy to come in and lean in for a kiss without a glass of wine.
如果不喝一杯酒，进来亲吻是不容易的。
Or let me put it this way, it is easier with a glass of wine.
或者让我这样说，喝一杯酒更容易。
It's a lot of fun.
这很有趣。
I smoked a lot of pot, and I drank a lot of alcohol in my 20s and in college, and it created a lot of wonderful bonding moments.
我在 20 多岁和大学期间吸了很多大麻，喝了很多酒，这创造了很多美妙的亲密时刻。
And so what I'm saying, there's a balance and a trade-off, and what I would suggest is that everyone needs to make their own decision.
所以我想说的是，这是一个平衡和权衡，我建议每个人都需要做出自己的决定。
But what scares me is the anti-alcohol movement in remote work has led to a level of isolation and fewer moments where people can bond, where people are willing to take a risk and go up to a strange person and say, "Hey, what's going on?" So I worry that the anti-alcohol movement, what I see among young people is that while they've demonized alcohol, it's not that they're not getting high, they're just doing a shit ton of drugs.
但令我害怕的是，远程工作中的反酒精运动导致了一定程度的孤立，人们可以建立联系的时刻越来越少，人们愿意冒险走到一个陌生人面前问：“嘿，发生了什么事？”所以我担心反酒精运动，我在年轻人中看到的是，虽然他们妖魔化了酒精，但这并不是说他们没有吸毒，而是他们吸食了大量毒品。
And the thing I don't like about many of these drugs is that they're more solo activity or small group activity.
我不喜欢这些药物的一点是它们更多是单独活动或小团体活动。
I think alcohol is a group of people, I like to think, meeting new strangers.
我认为酒精是一群人，我喜欢认为，结识新的陌生人。
Whereas when I was in college, all the dudes who were doing cocaine, well, it was because they had no sexual currency, and they would sequester a woman who liked cocaine and go into a bathroom.
而当我上大学时，所有吸食可卡因的家伙，嗯，那是因为他们没有性货币，他们会隔离一个喜欢可卡因的女人并进入浴室。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's creepy as fuck
这真他妈的令人毛骨悚然
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Totally creepy as fuck.
完全令人毛骨悚然。
And eventually everyone's like, "If a dude's into cocaine, it means he has no game." I find with people when they do drugs, it's a small group of people, and they sequester, and it's isolating.
最终每个人都会说，“如果一个人沉迷于可卡因，那就意味着他没有游戏可玩。”我发现当人们吸毒时，只有一小群人，他们会隔离，这是孤立的。
Whereas with alcohol, and to a certain extent with marijuana, I found it's more social and more bonding.
而酒精，以及某种程度上的大麻，我发现它更具有社交性和联系性。
So absolutely be cognizant of your addiction history.
因此，一定要了解您的成瘾史。
Absolutely be mindful of that or any other substance you're addicted to.
绝对要注意这种物质或任何其他让你上瘾的物质。
But I believe, and I've said this, and I've said this on Bill Maher a bunch, and I've gotten some shit, but I think there's some truth here.
但我相信，我已经说过这个，我已经在比尔·马赫身上说过很多次了，我得到了一些狗屎，但我认为这里有一些事实。
I think young people need to drink more, go out, and make a series of bad decisions that might pay off.
我认为年轻人需要多喝酒、出去走走、做出一系列可能会带来回报的错误决定。
I don't think there's anything wrong with some alcohol.
我不认为喝点酒有什么问题。
I worry that the risks of loneliness far outweigh the risks of alcohol, and that alcohol has been demonized as something that if you take one drink of alcohol, you're going to get cancer or you're going to become an addict.
我担心孤独的风险远远超过酒精的风险，而且酒精已被妖魔化为“如果你喝一杯酒，你就会得癌症或者你就会上瘾”。
And I don't think the data's there to support that.
我认为没有数据支持这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I really appreciate the candid expression of where you stand.
我真的很欣赏你坦诚表达自己的立场。
I agree that isolation is worse than alcohol, and it's compounded by alcohol.
我同意孤立比酒精更糟糕，而且酒精还会加剧这种情况。
So to make that point clear, I went to UC Santa Barbara.
为了弄清楚这一点，我去了加州大学圣巴巴拉分校。
We majored in drinking.
我们的专业是喝酒。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Speaking of alcohol .
说到酒精。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was part of the general education.
这是普通教育的一部分。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I remember they had sand in the dorms, so I'm like, "Why didn't I go to school here?"
我记得宿舍里有沙子，所以我想，“我为什么不在这里上学？”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, it did select for alcoholism if people had that predisposition, and you had to be disciplined to get your work done.
好吧，如果人们有酗酒的倾向，它确实会选择酗酒，而且你必须遵守纪律才能完成工作。
My messaging around alcohol was intended to land in three places.
我关于酒精的信息旨在传播到三个地方。
One, people who don't like drinking but felt that they had to, got a great reason to not drink.
第一，那些不喜欢喝酒但又觉得必须喝酒的人有充分的理由不喝酒。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Many, many people wrote to me and said, "Thank you.
很多很多人写信给我说：“谢谢你。
I always feel like garbage after drinking."
喝完酒后我总感觉自己像个垃圾。”
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"I don't want to drink.
“我不想喝酒。
Now I understand why I feel like garbage." It's not that I was casting it toward a particular age group, but there are many people who hit their 40s or 50s and they're like, "God, I'm aging fast, and I look like shit, and I sleep like shit, and my workouts are no good," and you might be drinking too much, right?
现在我明白为什么我感觉自己像个垃圾了。”这并不是说我要针对某个特定的年龄段，而是有很多人到了 40 多岁或 50 多岁，他们会说，“天啊，我老得很快，我看起来很糟糕，我睡得很糟糕，我的锻炼也很糟糕，”你可能喝得太多了，对吧？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then there are the optimizers.
然后是优化器。
There are people that are really just going for maximum vitality, not just longevity, but maximum vitality, which is, to me, one of the most important things.
有些人真的只是追求最大的活力，不仅仅是长寿，而是最大的活力，对我来说，这是最重要的事情之一。
In any case, people should do as they wish but know what they're doing, provided they're not harming anyone else.
无论如何，人们应该按照自己的意愿行事，但要知道自己在做什么，前提是不伤害他人。
There's one thing that I want to kind of lump in with this discussion about alcohol-
在这次关于酒精的讨论中，我想强调一件事——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and your statement, which on the top contour I totally agree with.
以及你的说法，我完全同意你的说法。
Go out, drink, and make a few bad decisions, and probably some good ones.
出去喝酒，做出一些错误的决定，也可能做出一些好的决定。
But-
但是——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Bad-ish.
不好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Bad-ish, right.
很糟糕，对吧。
So this is the thing.
所以这就是事情。
Phones.
电话。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Somebody says the wrong thing, they loosen up too much.
有人说错话了，他们太放松了。
Now it's not a problem.
现在这不是问题了。
Three years ago, you might be sitting in front of HR.
三年前，你可能坐在人力资源部面前。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Your classmates might isolate you, right?
你的同学可能会孤立你，对吗？
You were in a fraternity.
你在兄弟会里。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I wasn't in a fraternity.
我没有加入兄弟会。
I grew up in the fraternity of skateboarding, punk rock music-
我在滑板、朋克摇滚音乐的氛围中长大——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and just the fraternity of Y chromosomes.
以及 Y 染色体的兄弟情谊。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Guys drink, they start saying stupid shit.
伙计们喝了酒，他们就开始说些蠢话。
With phones around, stupid shit is recorded.
有了手机，愚蠢的事情就会被记录下来。
When stupid shit is recorded, it can be very harmful.
当愚蠢的狗屎被记录下来时，它可能是非常有害的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And when you're drinking, you make less filtered decisions about what to say-
当你喝酒的时候，你会更少地决定要说什么——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
than when you're not drinking.
比你不喝酒的时候
So I'm not pushing back in a sense, but I could understand why a guy in his 20s or 30s would be afraid.
所以我并不是在某种意义上反驳，但我可以理解为什么一个 20 多岁或 30 多岁的男人会害怕。
A guy that would never-
一个永远不会-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
ever, ever push himself on a woman, let alone something far worse, would never, ever drug somebody or anything.
永远、永远把自己强加给一个女人，更不用说更糟糕的事情了，永远、永远不会给某人或任何东西下毒。
So I'm not talking about the Bill Cosby examples of this.
所以我不是在谈论比尔科斯比的例子。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm talking about the fear that exists in a lot of young guys, and probably should exist in a lot of young women too nowadays-
我说的是许多年轻人中存在的恐惧，现在可能也应该存在许多年轻女性中——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
based on what we've observed in cancel culture.
基于我们在取消文化中观察到的情况。
In particular, I'm just going to say a lot of white women-
特别是，我想说很多白人女性——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
are afraid of the Karen movement.
害怕克伦运动。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
That if they say anything, I think even beloved Billie Eilish, whose music I love, was called out for something, she did a sort of impersonation of a Asian person at some point.
如果他们说什么的话，我想即使是我喜爱的比莉·艾利什（Billie Eilish），我喜欢她的音乐，也被要求做一些事情，她在某些时候模仿了一个亚洲人。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Always going to happen to famous people.
总是会发生在名人身上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Okay.
好的。
Always going to happen, right?
总会发生的，对吧？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But people see famous people get into these situations-
但人们看到名人陷入这些境地——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like, oh my gosh.
就像，天哪。
So do I think Billie Eilish is a ra-- no, and I love her music, and she was mortified, and she apologized.
所以我认为 Billie Eilish 是个 ra-- 不，我喜欢她的音乐，她感到羞愧，并且道歉了。
But it's enough to make people go-
但也足以让人去——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
100%
100%
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
"And maybe I just stay in my room and scroll on Instagram," you know?
“也许我只是呆在房间里刷 Instagram，”你知道吗？
So you can kind of get why the fear of drinking might also compound some of this social media stuff that we're talking about.
所以你可以理解为什么对饮酒的恐惧也可能加剧我们正在谈论的一些社交媒体内容。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
So I want to acknowledge the point.
所以我想承认这一点。
I would like to say, or I hope, that at some point, I'm really glad a camera wasn't following me around 24 by 7 when I was 18.
我想说，或者我希望，在某个时刻，我真的很高兴在我 18 岁的时候，相机没有在 24 点乘 7 点跟踪我。
I can't imagine-
我无法想象-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That one time you said that one dumb thing, right?
那一次你说了一件蠢事，对吧？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I just can't imagine.
我简直无法想象。
What I do think we are headed to, though, I'd like to think, is that in an era of social media and phones, that slowly but surely we're heading to a point of more grace where we forgive people, especially young people.
不过，我确实认为，在社交媒体和手机盛行的时代，我们正在走向一个更加优雅的阶段，我们会原谅人们，尤其是年轻人。
And there's been a bunch of movements where a lot of young people did things I really disagreed with on campus after October the 7th.
10 月 7 日之后，校园里发生了很多运动，很多年轻人做了我非常不同意的事情。
I was less angry at them than some of the faculty, because I'm like, I cut an 18-year-old a lot of grace, right?
与一些教员相比，我对他们的愤怒更少，因为我想，我让一个 18 岁的年轻人失去了很多恩典，对吧？
Or I try to.
或者我尝试这样做。
The thing I would push back on is that I think there's certain looking glasses into people's soul, and one is how they treat their pets and how they behave when they're drunk.
我要反驳的是，我认为人们的灵魂有一定的观察镜，其中之一是他们如何对待他们的宠物以及他们喝醉时的行为方式。
And what I find is for every person who would say something stupid, there's more people when they get drunk who say, "You know, I just think you're wonderful.
我发现，对于每一个会说蠢话的人来说，有更多的人在喝醉后会说：“你知道，我只是觉得你很棒。
I'm so impressed by you." Or walk up to a woman and say, "I just love your dress," or, "God, you have such a beautiful smile." Or just walk up to her to begin with and say, and express interest.
我对你印象很深刻。”或者走到一位女士面前说：“我就是喜欢你的衣服”，或者“天啊，你的笑容真美丽。”或者直接走到她面前并说，并表达兴趣。
Expressing interest to someone is a wonderful thing.
向某人表达兴趣是一件美妙的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or, "Do you want to dance?"
或者，“你想跳舞吗？”
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
It says, "I saw you, and by the way you move and the way you smile, I want you.
它说：“我看到了你，从你移动的方式和微笑的方式，我想要你。
I'm interested in you." That's a wonderful fucking thing.
我对你感兴趣。”这真是他妈的一件美妙的事情。
And so my sense is that for every negative thing, it may, of course, increase someone's...
所以我的感觉是，对于每一件负面的事情，它当然可能会增加某人的……
If someone's bad judgment is revealed in an awful way, they got bigger problems than alcohol.
如果某人的错误判断以一种可怕的方式暴露出来，他们就会遇到比酒精更严重的问题。
What it also does is lower inhibitions, and I generally think the majority of people are good people.
它还可以降低抑制力，我通常认为大多数人都是好人。
And I have found that the majority of my friends, and the majority of people I'm with When they have a little bit of alcohol, it lowers their inhibitions, and they're more likely to hug you, and they're more likely to say how much they appreciate the friendship.
我发现我的大多数朋友，以及与我在一起的大多数人，当他们喝一点酒时，他们的抑制力就会降低，他们更有可能拥抱你，他们更有可能表达他们是多么欣赏这种友谊。
When I was younger, I don't know if you ever did this, when I had a few drinks, I used to call my mom, and tell her how much she meant to me.
当我年轻的时候，我不知道你是否曾经这样做过，当我喝了几杯酒后，我常常打电话给我妈妈，告诉她她对我有多重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Don't let my mom hear that, please.
请不要让我妈妈听到。
I didn't.
我没有。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
But I think that alcohol, to a certain extent, without getting into issues of abuse, which are much bigger, lowers your inhibitions, but you get to see, to a certain extent, that real person.
但我认为，酒精在某种程度上，在不涉及更大的虐待问题的情况下，会降低你的抑制力，但在某种程度上，你会看到那个真实的人。
And I know a lot of people will say, "Well, that's pathetic that you have to be the real you under the influence." But I think a lot of people reveal some wonderful things about themselves, and also have the courage to reveal those things to other people.
我知道很多人会说：“好吧，在酒精的影响下你必须做真实的自己，这太可悲了。”但我认为很多人都会透露自己的一些精彩的事情，并且也有勇气向其他人透露这些事情。
And I worry that there's so many barriers now that young people just aren't connecting.
我担心现在存在太多障碍，年轻人无法相互联系。
So I just want to acknowledge the point.
所以我只想承认这一点。
I think you have to be really cognizant.
我认为你必须真正认识到。
It's not a great idea, unless you know you can handle alcohol, to drink at work, at a professional function.
这不是一个好主意，除非你知道自己可以控制酒精，可以在工作中、在专业场合喝酒。
It can fuck up your whole career.
它可能会搞砸你的整个职业生涯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh.
哦。
One thing that I observed coming up through the academic ranks, and I could not believe it, that at every gathering where you have graduate students and faculty members and postdocs, it was like the happy hour was the highlight of the meeting for many people.
我在学术界观察到一件事，我简直不敢相信，在每次有研究生、教员和博士后的聚会上，对许多人来说，欢乐时光似乎是会议的亮点。
And it became the place where, in theory, everyone meets at the bar to talk about the data from the day, right?
从理论上讲，这里成了每个人在酒吧聚会讨论当天数据的地方，对吧？
Like at these meetings.
就像在这些会议上一样。
In reality, 90% of the problems that existed between faculty and students and postdocs and faculty and faculty that were independently married and all that stuff, alcohol facilitated that.
事实上，教师与学生、博士后、独立婚姻的教师与教师之间存在的90%的问题，都是酒精促成的。
I really believe that.
我真的相信这一点。
I saw it over and over and over again.
我一遍又一遍地看到它。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
It caused a lot of problems.
这引起了很多问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Caused an immense number of problems, and it was funded by grants.
造成了大量问题，并且是由赠款资助的。
I'm a big proponent of trying to...
我非常支持尝试...
And I have worked very hard on the phone to try and keep NIH funding at least to not getting cut, and it looks like it hasn't, to not get the indirects cut.
我在电话中非常努力地试图保持 NIH 的资金至少不被削减，而且看起来没有，不被间接削减。
This is the kind of academic inside ball stuff, but looks like could be far better, but at least the cuts that were going to happen didn't happen.
这是一种学术内线的东西，但看起来可能会好得多，但至少即将发生的削减没有发生。
So the NIH funded my career.
所以美国国立卫生研究院资助了我的职业生涯。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the NIH.
如果没有 NIH，我就不会在这里。
I had grants, reviewed grants, et cetera.
我有补助金，审查补助金等等。
But the idea that you could spend money on alcohol way back when, and then people were gathering around alcohol, it created a lot of problems.
但是，当人们聚集在酒精周围时，你可以花钱买酒的想法产生了很多问题。
Now, students drinking with other students, less of an issue, right?
现在，学生们和其他学生一起喝酒，不是什么问题了，对吧？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Well, let me propose something to get your reaction.
好吧，让我提出一些建议来征求您的反应。
I think they should study and thoughtfully consider lowering the drinking age back to 18.
我认为他们应该研究并深思熟虑地考虑将饮酒年龄降至18岁。
I live in the UK.
我住在英国。
I can see by your face where this is going.
我从你的脸上就能看出事情的进展。
I live in the UK.
我住在英国。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Military, drinking age 18.
军人，18岁饮酒。
I like some of the things I've heard.
我喜欢我听到的一些事情。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Well, if you're in the military, you can drink under the age of 21, because the idea is that if you're going to die for your country, you're adult enough to order a drink.
好吧，如果你在军队，你可以在 21 岁以下喝酒，因为这个想法是，如果你要为你的国家而死，你就已经足够成熟了，可以点一杯饮料。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
At least the logic is there.
至少逻辑是有的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
That makes sense, right?
这有道理，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
But in the UK, if you're with an adult at a meal, you can order a beer at 17, and even without an adult, at the age of 18 in a pub, you can order a beer.
但在英国，如果有成人一起吃饭，17岁就可以点啤酒，即使没有成人，18岁在酒吧也可以点啤酒。
And when my son comes home, he doesn't do it as often as I would like, but when my son comes home on the weekends from boarding school, I like to take him to a local pub, and we have a beer.
当我儿子回家时，他并不像我希望的那样经常这样做，但是当我儿子周末从寄宿学校回家时，我喜欢带他去当地的酒吧，我们一起喝啤酒。
And I found out that after one beer, he's more inclined to tell me a little bit about what's going on with him.
我发现喝完一杯啤酒后，他更愿意告诉我一些他的近况。
And as a father, all you really want, you just really want conversation with your kids.
作为一名父亲，您真正想要的只是与孩子交谈。
You want to know what's going on with them.
你想知道他们发生了什么事。
And so he doesn't get drunk.
所以他不会喝醉。
He's not into alcohol.
他不喜欢喝酒。
He listens to you.
他听你的。
He listens to other people.
他听别人的。
He's very wary of it.
他对此非常警惕。
But I find that easing young men and young women into alcohol as opposed to 21, and then they kind of go, I don't know.
但我发现，与 21 岁相比，让年轻男性和年轻女性更容易酗酒，然后他们就开始酗酒，我不知道。
I wonder if we should be lowering the drinking age.
我想知道我们是否应该降低饮酒年龄。
And the reason we raised it was Mothers Against Drunk Driving were very effective and very on point because of all the young people who were dying in automobile accidents.
我们提出这个问题的原因是“母亲反对酒后驾驶”非常有效，而且非常切中要害，因为所有年轻人都死于车祸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I remember that era.
我记得那个时代。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I think it's gone way down because of Uber and because of airbags.
我认为由于 Uber 和安全气囊，它已经大幅下降。
So I'm proposing, would it make sense to do a study on whether you'd have more social connection and perhaps less alcoholism later in life if you let kids ease into it at the age of 18?
所以我建议，如果你让孩子在 18 岁时开始酗酒，你是否会在以后的生活中拥有更多的社交关系，并且可能会更少地酗酒，这是否有意义？
And if they can be drafted, the administration is proposing they be drafted, so if a kid can be drafted, shouldn't he or she have the judgment to know when they can order a beer or not?
如果他们可以被征召入伍，政府建议他们被征召入伍，所以如果一个孩子可以被征召入伍，他或她难道不应该有判断力来知道他们什么时候可以点啤酒吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All great arguments.
所有伟大的论点。
I didn't know we were going to end up here.
我不知道我们会在这里结束。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Well, you talk about cannabis.
好吧，你谈论大麻。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I want to get your view.
我想听听你的看法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I smoked a shit ton of pot in college.
我在大学里抽了很多大麻。
I could make a bong out of any household item.
我可以用任何家居用品制作水枪。
I learned every line from "Planet of the Apes."
我从《猩球崛起》中学到了每句台词。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You know how to make a pipe out of an apple.
你知道如何用苹果制作烟斗。
That's a very '90s trick.
这是一个非常90年代的技巧。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Dude, that's sophomore.
兄弟，那是二年级的吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, all right.
好吧，好吧。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I can go much better than that.
我可以做得更好。
Anyways, but then 22, got a job at Morgan Stanley, got very focused on getting my shit together, and I basically didn't smoke for 20 or 25 years.
不管怎样，但是22岁时，我在摩根士丹利找到了一份工作，非常专注于整理我的狗屎，而且我基本上有20或25年没有吸烟了。
Now, I have trouble sleeping.
现在，我睡眠困难。
I have trouble winding my brain down, and I take edibles.
我很难让自己的大脑放松下来，所以我会吃东西。
I do edibles probably twice a week.
我大概一周吃两次。
If I'm amped or think I'm going to have a tough time sleeping, I'll take a five milligram edible, the stuff that takes you down.
如果我很兴奋或者觉得自己会很难入睡，我会服用五毫克的食物，这会让你情绪低落。
I forget which one that is.
我忘记那是哪一个了。
And it's been an enhancement to my life.
这增强了我的生活。
But I'm reading a lot of stuff about potential psychosis or whatever.
但我读了很多关于潜在精神病或其他什么的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not for you.
不适合你。
The psychosis predisposition doesn't apply.
精神病倾向不适用。
You would already know.
你已经知道了。
You'd be psychotic by now.
你现在一定是精神病了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
There you go.
就这样吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Or I just haven't acknowledged it.
或者只是我还没有承认而已。
But it's been accretive to my life.
但它对我的生活有所裨益。
I really enjoy THC, and I do it packaged, so I know where it's come from.
我真的很喜欢 THC，而且我把它包装起来，所以我知道它来自哪里。
I like edibles because I like the dosing of it.
我喜欢吃东西，因为我喜欢它的剂量。
But I would argue that THC is something, when my mom had stomach cancer, I was living with her, and the only thing that worked for her nausea was marijuana.
但我认为四氢大麻酚是一种东西，当我妈妈得胃癌时，我和她住在一起，唯一能缓解她恶心的东西就是大麻。
And I found myself literally, Andrew, on the streets of downtown Las Vegas trying to score marijuana because I was too scared to travel with it.
安德鲁，我发现自己在拉斯维加斯市中心的街道上试图吸食大麻，因为我太害怕了，不敢携带大麻旅行。
And this was July of 2004, and I thought, "Jesus Christ, here I am on a street corner in this weird place in Vegas trying to score marijuana for my mom who has stomach cancer." So I think there's some benefits to...
那是 2004 年 7 月，我想，“天哪，我在拉斯维加斯这个奇怪地方的街角，试图为我患有胃癌的妈妈获取大麻。”所以我认为有一些好处...
Well, I'll stop there.
好吧，我就到此为止。
The THC usage, I enjoy.
THC 的使用，我喜欢。
I think it's been additive to my life.
我认为它对我的生活有所帮助。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, LMNT.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 LMNT。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的比例都正确，但不含糖。
Proper hydration is critical for brain and body function.
适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体功能至关重要。
Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish your cognitive and physical performance.
即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低您的认知和身体表现。
It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.
获得充足的电解质也很重要。
The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are vital for the functioning of all cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.
电解质（钠、镁和钾）对于体内所有细胞（尤其是神经元或神经细胞）的功能至关重要。
Drinking LMNT makes it very easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.
饮用 LMNT 可以轻松确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。
My days tend to start really fast, meaning I have to jump right into work or right into exercise.
我的日子往往开始得很快，这意味着我必须立即投入工作或立即锻炼。
So to make sure that I'm hydrated and I have sufficient electrolytes, when I first wake up in the morning, I drink 16 to 32 ounces of water with an LMNT packet dissolved in it.
因此，为了确保我有足够的水分和足够的电解质，当我早上第一次醒来时，我会喝 16 至 32 盎司的水，其中溶解有 LMNT 包。
I also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes.
我还会在进行任何体育锻炼时饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT，尤其是在炎热的日子里，当我大量出汗并失去水和电解质时。
LMNT has a bunch of great-tasting flavors.
LMNT 有很多美味的口味。
In fact, I love them all.
事实上，我爱他们所有人。
I love the watermelon, the raspberry, the citrus, and I really love the lemonade flavor.
我喜欢西瓜、覆盆子、柑橘，而且我真的很喜欢柠檬水的味道。
So if you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with any purchase.
因此，如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman，购买任意商品即可领取免费的 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。
Yeah, I think with THC, it's highly individual.
是的，我认为 THC 是非常个性化的。
Young males in particular who have a predisposition, genetic predisposition to psychosis or bipolar disorder need to be really careful, especially with high concentration THC, not just the edibles, but they do need to be careful.
尤其是年轻男性，他们有精神病或双相情感障碍的倾向、遗传倾向，需要非常小心，尤其是高浓度的 THC，不仅仅是食物，但他们确实需要小心。
I think that, again, mostly young men who are challenged with apathy, obesity, self-loathing, porn, masturbation addiction shouldn't be using THC.
我再次认为，大多数面临冷漠、肥胖、自我厌恶、色情、手淫成瘾问题的年轻男性不应该使用 THC。
I think high agency, that seems to be the term nowadays, right?
我认为高代理，这似乎是现在的术语，对吗？
The guys that you mentor a year in who are working out three times a week, and they have a goal, and they're hopefully seeking or in a relationship.
你指导了一年的那些每周锻炼三次的人，他们有一个目标，并且希望他们正在寻求或建立关系。
They have a different self-view of themselves, and yeah, I don't see why that couldn't be a part of their week.
他们对自己有不同的自我看法，是的，我不明白为什么这不能成为他们一周的一部分。
It'll nuke their REM sleep.
它会破坏他们的快速眼动睡眠。
To be specific, if they come off, their dreams are going to be wild because they'll get more REM sleep.
具体来说，如果他们脱落，他们的梦想将会变得疯狂，因为他们将获得更多的快速眼动睡眠。
But creatives, there are a number of creatives who can use it appropriately to increase focus, get them out of anxiety, or get them to cope with anxiety.
但是创意人员，有很多创意人员可以适当地利用它来增加注意力，让他们摆脱焦虑，或者让他们应对焦虑。
And then there's just as many people that take it, and it makes them incredibly anxious.
然后有同样多的人接受它，这让他们非常焦虑。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
So I think it's sort of on what backdrop.
所以我认为这是在什么背景下发生的。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
And I think the alcohol thing also is on what backdrop.
我认为酒精事件也是在什么背景下发生的。
If somebody's overweight, not working out.
如果有人超重，就不锻炼。
A guy in their 20s or 30s that's dealing with-- Let's just paint a picture here.
一个 20 多岁或 30 多岁的人正在处理——让我们在这里画一幅图画。
He's playing video games.
他正在玩电子游戏。
He's not morbidly obese or anything, but he's kind of overweight.
他并没有病态肥胖什么的，但他有点超重了。
He's out of shape, yeah.
他的身材已经不行了，是的。
And he feels like shit.
他感觉就像屎一样。
He shouldn't be drinking and smoking weed.
他不应该喝酒和吸大麻。
Yeah, you got it.
是的，你明白了。
He should be going to the gym and get himself in shape and then maybe have a couple beers a week with his buddies.
他应该去健身房锻炼身体，然后每周和朋友们喝几杯啤酒。
So the context really matters.
所以背景确实很重要。
Well, I would argue never do substances alone.
好吧，我认为永远不要单独做物质。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
And during the week, try not to do substances if you got to be on point the next day.
在这一周中，如果第二天必须准时，尽量不要做任何事情。
That it's something to be-- It's a recreation.
这是一件值得的事情——这是一种娱乐。
The thing I'm curious to get your take on is one of the things I'm working with some young men on is, I think the most under-researched addiction is porn, and my fear is that, if you look at what, again, I go back to big tech.
我很想知道你的看法，我正在与一些年轻人合作的一件事是，我认为研究最不足的成瘾是色情，我担心的是，如果你再看看什么，我会回到大型科技公司。
Big tech's trying to convince young men, why go through the pecking order and the effort of trying to develop a friend group when you have Reddit and Discord?
大型科技公司正试图说服年轻人，当你有 Reddit 和 Discord 的时候，为什么要费力去建立一个朋友圈呢？
Why go through the bullshit of putting on a tie and trying to go into the office and make a good living and navigate the corporate world when you think you can make money trading stocks or crypto on Robinhood or Coinbase?
当你认为可以在 Robinhood 或 Coinbase 上交易股票或加密货币赚钱时，为什么要费尽心思打上领带，试图进入办公室，过上好日子，并在企业界中游刃有余呢？
And why would you go through the effort, the expense, the potential rejection of trying to have a kindness practice, look good, work out, endure rejection, all the expenditures of going out and trying to get a date when you have lifelike porn?
当你拥有栩栩如生的色情片时，为什么你还要付出努力、花费、尝试进行善行、看起来不错、锻炼身体、忍受拒绝、外出和试图约会的所有支出？
And I'll use myself as an example.
我将以我自己为例。
When I was at UCLA, I graduated from UCLA with a 2.27 GPA, which isn't easy because it means you almost-- I failed nine classes, right?
当我在 UCLA 时，我以 2.27 GPA 的成绩从 UCLA 毕业，这并不容易，因为这意味着我几乎 - 我九门课不及格，对吗？
And I still graduated.
而且我还是毕业了。
And by the way, talk about a different age.
顺便说一下不同的年龄。
We're both children of the University of California, UC San Diego.
我们都是加州大学圣地亚哥分校的孩子。
Talk about how blessed we are.
谈论我们是多么幸运。
Talk about what hurricane-like winds we had in our sails to prosperity.
谈谈我们在走向繁荣的过程中遇到了怎样的飓风。
When I applied to UCLA, admissions rate was 74%, now it's nine.
当我申请加州大学洛杉矶分校时，录取率是74%，现在是9%。
Graduated with a 2.27.
毕业成绩为2.27。
You know what happened?
你知道发生了什么吗？
Berkeley let me into graduate school with a 2.27 GPA.
伯克利让我以 2.27 的 GPA 进入研究生院。
But anyways, back to UCLA.
但无论如何，回到加州大学洛杉矶分校。
One of my motivators for going on campus was that there was a non-zero probability that I might meet a woman, establish contact with her, see my buddies, maybe get her to a fraternity party or get her to go on a date with me, and maybe at some point be physical with her.
我进入校园的动机之一是，我有非零的可能性遇到一个女人，与她建立联系，见到我的朋友，也许让她参加兄弟会聚会，或者让她和我约会，也许在某个时候与她发生身体接触。
That was an enormous motivator for me.
这对我来说是一个巨大的动力。
If I had lifelike porn on my phone, on my computer screen 24 by seven, I don't know if I would've been as motivated to go on campus as much, and there was little margin for error in terms of going on campus a few less times.
如果我的手机上、我的电脑屏幕上有栩栩如生的色情片，二十四小时乘七点，我不知道我是否会有同样的动力去校园，而且在少去校园几次方面几乎没有犯错的余地。
And I worry that that mojo, that desire to quite frankly go out and make your own bad porn, is being reduced so much with lifelike porn that men aren't evolving into risk-taking, aggressive in a positive way men who are motivated to dress well, to work out, to approach strange women, to go through-- It is hard.
我担心那种魔力，那种想要坦白地出去制作自己的糟糕色情片的愿望，正在被栩栩如生的色情片所削弱，以至于男人不会进化成敢于冒险、积极进取的男人，他们有动力穿得好，去锻炼，去接近陌生的女人，去经历——这很难。
It is hard to find a partner.
很难找到合作伙伴。
And what I say to these men is, "Welcome to the fucking work week.
我对这些人说的是，“欢迎来到他妈的工作周。
It's been hard forever.
一直以来都很难。
That's the whole point." Women are choosier than men, and there's a reason, right?
这就是重点。”女人比男人更挑剔，这是有原因的，对吧？
We're trying to spread our seed to the four corners of the Earth.
我们正试图将我们的种子传播到地球的四个角落。
They put up a much finer screen to pick the smartest, fastest, and strongest seed, and that's the reason why our kids are going to be smarter and taller than us.
他们设置了更精细的屏幕来挑选最聪明、最快和最强的种子，这就是为什么我们的孩子会比我们更聪明、更高的原因。
That's the way of the world.
这就是世界的方式。
But when you reduce that desire, it's going to get in the way of not only you finding a mate, but developing the skills to be successful in all other parts of your life.
但是，当你减少这种欲望时，它不仅会妨碍你寻找伴侣，还会妨碍你发展在生活的其他方面取得成功的技能。
So back to the basic premise, I wonder and worry if porn is the most under-researched addiction and the damage it's having on young men.
回到基本前提，我想知道并担心色情是否是研究最不足的成瘾及其对年轻人造成的伤害。
Because
因为
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
What I see amongst my colleagues, and I'd be curious if...
我在同事中看到了什么，我很好奇……
I actually spoke to a really thoughtful woman about this who's an addiction professor at Stanford.
事实上，我和一位非常有思想的女士谈过这个问题，她是斯坦福大学的成瘾学教授。
I'm sure you know her.
我确信你认识她。
I forget her name.
我忘记了她的名字。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Anna Lembke.
安娜·伦布克。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Anna Lembke.
安娜·伦布克。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
She runs our dual diagnosis addiction-
她经营我们的双重诊断成瘾-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Fantastic
太棒了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
amazing woman, amazing human being.
了不起的女人，了不起的人类。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Immediately when we got off the podcast, said to me, "If your marijuana ever becomes a problem, just call me." And she was sincere.
当我们结束播客时，他立即对我说：“如果你的大麻成为问题，请给我打电话。”而且她是真诚的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's totally-
这完全是——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
And I'm like-
我就像——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's totally Anna
这完全就是安娜
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
...
...
and I'm like, "Do you sense?"
我说：“你感觉到了吗？”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's totally Anna.
这完全就是安娜。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
And immediately, I'm like-
立刻，我就像——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
She's the real deal
她是货真价实的
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
...
...
I'm like, "Do you sense it's a problem?" I'm like, "Hold me, Anna." Anyways, but I don't think there's enough really good research out there on porn because I don't think people want to be known as the porn professor.
我说：“你觉得这是一个问题吗？”我想，“抱紧我，安娜。”不管怎样，但我认为关于色情片的研究还不够多，因为我认为人们不想被称为色情片教授。
And so I worry that we really don't know the impact.
所以我担心我们真的不知道影响。
And what I see anecdotally is that I see a lot of young men who don't have that healthy fire because they think, "Oh..." It's like in the last 20 years, the guys who didn't have their own game or didn't want to be that successful, they would go to some low-income country and basically become expats.
有趣的是，我看到很多年轻人没有那种健康的热情，因为他们想，“哦......”就像在过去的 20 年里，那些没有自己的比赛或不想那么成功的人，他们会去一些低收入国家，基本上成为外籍人士。
This has become, I think, a much broader version of that, that rather than level up, you'd rather just sit home and get a reasonable facsimile of a relationship or sex with porn.
我认为，这已经成为一个更广泛的版本，你宁愿坐在家里，得到一个合理的色情关系或性行为的传真，而不是升级。
I wonder if that is more damaging than people estimate right now.
我想知道这是否比人们现在估计的更具破坏性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It's a really important topic, and it's one that people contact me about all the time.
这是一个非常重要的话题，也是人们一直联系我讨论的话题。
Your analogy of what's happening with porn to sexpats, we should probably explain what's...
你对色情片与性爱者所发生的事情的类比，我们也许应该解释一下......
Expats are people that leave the United States.
外籍人士是指离开美国的人。
I'm not sure everyone's going to follow that one.
我不确定每个人都会遵循这一点。
And sexpats, it's this community of people that I think they go to Southeast Asia or something-
还有性伴侣，我认为他们就是这个群体去东南亚之类的——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or South America, where they can essentially buy whatever experience they want.
或者南美，在那里他们基本上可以购买他们想要的任何体验。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In general, I have to assume, I've truly never done this, nor do I have any interest, but I have to assume that these are men who just basically figure, well, that's low effort once they have the money, and real dating, real sex, if I may -
总的来说，我必须假设，我真的从来没有这样做过，也没有任何兴趣，但我必须假设这些男人基本上认为，好吧，一旦他们有钱了，真正的约会，真正的性爱，如果我可以-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Is an effort
是一种努力
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it takes some work and it takes some learning-
这需要一些工作，需要一些学习——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
especially if you want to be told genuinely, "Good job," and know that it's true.
尤其是如果您希望别人真诚地告诉您“干得好”，并且知道这是真的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You have to get some reps in there.
你必须在那里找一些代表。
So, put your ego on the line.
所以，把你的自我置于危险之中。
Learn to communicate, learn to listen, all that stuff.
学会沟通，学会倾听，诸如此类。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
That's right.
没错。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The idea that porn is the much broader and more destructive analogous thing, I think, is bullseye.
我认为，认为色情是更广泛、更具破坏性的类似事物的想法是正中靶心。
The moment you said it, I'm like, I think people need to hear that.
当你说出这句话的那一刻，我想，我认为人们需要听到这一点。
Do you want to be that guy?
你想成为那样的人吗？
I think with any behavioral change, the neuroscientist in me says, okay, we have circuits for things that are aversive to us.
我认为，对于任何行为改变，我内心的神经科学家都会说，好吧，我们有处理那些令我们厌恶的事物的回路。
You have to engage the aversion, and you have to engage the appetitive aspect, right?
你必须投入厌恶方面，并且你必须投入食欲方面，对吗？
So that there's a win, and then there's something to avoid.
这样就有了胜利，然后就有了需要避免的事情。
I really think in order to get any real behavioral change, you need to push away from something and towards something else.
我真的认为，为了获得任何真正的行为改变，你需要摆脱某些事物并转向其他事物。
Okay, so I think that porn, it's our most fundamental wiring.
好吧，我认为色情是我们最基本的联系。
The two circuits in the brain that really crank out dopamine-
大脑中真正产生多巴胺的两个回路——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
okay, circuits for reproduction-
好的，复制电路-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
sex-
性别-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and anger.
和愤怒。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's this incredible study by a very controversial guy named Robert Heath in the 1960s.
20 世纪 60 年代，一位名叫罗伯特·希思 (Robert Heath) 的非常有争议的人进行了一项令人难以置信的研究。
He was a neurosurgeon who would stimulate different areas of the brain, and unfortunately, he was into conversion therapy.
他是一名神经外科医生，会刺激大脑的不同区域，不幸的是，他热衷于转化疗法。
So, he appropriately got run out of science for trying to make gay people straight by stimulating certain areas of the brain.
因此，他试图通过刺激大脑的某些区域来使同性恋者变直，因此理所当然地被科学淘汰了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah, good luck with that.
是的，祝你好运。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
He was kind of a piece of shit person, but again, let's look at what he did separate from that.
他是一个很糟糕的人，但是，让我们再看看他除了这个之外还做了什么。
Immediately, people were like, "I don't care about his data." But he gave people with electrodes in their brain, in certain studies, the option to stimulate anywhere they wanted.
人们立刻就说：“我不在乎他的数据。”但在某些研究中，他为大脑中装有电极的人们提供了在他们想要的任何地方进行刺激的选择。
They could stimulate and get sexual arousal.
他们可以刺激并获得性唤起。
They could get laughter.
他们可以获得笑声。
They could feel drunk.
他们可能会感觉喝醉了。
All the things we're talking about, really.
我们正在谈论的所有事情，真的。
They could feel soothing of the sort that their mother was holding them.
他们能感受到母亲抱着他们的那种安慰。
The area that they chose to stimulate the most is in the central midline nucleus of the thalamus, an area that my lab has spent a lot of time on in other situations, and they would just lever press and lever press and lever press for the feeling of mild frustration and anger.
他们选择刺激最多的区域是丘脑的中央中线核，我的实验室在其他情况下花了很多时间研究这个区域，他们只会不断地按压杠杆，以获得轻微的沮丧和愤怒的感觉。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because the arousal associated with it is its own reinforcement.
因为与之相关的唤醒本身就是强化。
As a student of mine who's now hopefully soon to be a faculty member, I won't name the university, but she has an offer from a phenomenal university.
作为我的一名学生，现在希望很快就能成为一名教员，我不会透露哪所大学的名字，但她收到了一所非凡大学的录取通知书。
Her name is Lindsay Salay, and she's worked on this in a very, very mechanistic way.
她的名字叫 Lindsay Salay，她以非常非常机械的方式从事这方面的工作。
When we're angry, when we're frustrated, the link to the dopamine circuitry is just pounded out.
当我们生气、沮丧时，与多巴胺回路的联系就会被破坏。
We just all day long.
我们只是整天。
And what's amazing is it doesn't attenuate.
令人惊奇的是它并没有减弱。
There's no threshold for anger.
愤怒没有门槛。
The more angry you get, the more frustrated you get, the more arousal you feel from that-
你越生气，你越沮丧，你就越感到兴奋——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you never satiate.
你永远不会满足。
There's no post-coital bliss.
没有性交后的幸福。
There's no, my belly is so full, I feel like I'm going to explode.
不行，肚子太饱了，感觉要爆炸了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so this gets to the social media thing, too.
这也涉及到社交媒体的问题。
That's the circuit that I worry about, and I think that's the circuit that, yes, I think big tech has tapped into, whether they want to or not, and I think that that's the one we really have to be careful of.
这就是我担心的电路，我认为这就是大型科技公司已经利用的电路，无论他们是否愿意，我认为这是我们真正必须小心的电路。
And I've experienced it myself.
我自己也经历过。
I think I actually, in this moment, am experiencing a little bit of it, like that kind of arousal of like, yes-
我想我实际上，在这一刻，正在经历一点点，就像那种唤醒，是的——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the forward center of mass that we feel, but when it's fuck them, like fuck the Republicans, or fuck the left, or the extreme woke.
我们感受到的前进的质量中心，但是当它去他妈的他们时，就像他妈的共和党人，或者他妈的左派，或者极端醒来。
People are just high all day long on their own anger-
人们整天都在为自己的愤怒而亢奋——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Hmm
嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and frustration, and I think we just see it everywhere.
和挫败感，我想我们随处可见。
And I raise my hand.
我举起了手。
I'm sure I'm guilty of this at times, too.
我确信我有时也对此感到内疚。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah, that's illuminating because I correlate my anger to a pathway to feeling depressed.
是的，这很有启发性，因为我将愤怒与感到抑郁的途径联系起来。
I struggle with anger and depression, and it usually starts as something triggers me, I get really angry, and then I feel like my blood turns to some sort of corrosive acid, and it just wears me down.
我与愤怒和抑郁作斗争，通常是在某些事情触发我的时候开始的，我真的很生气，然后我感觉我的血液变成了某种腐蚀性的酸，这让我疲惫不堪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's adrenaline.
那是肾上腺素。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
And I'm just depleted for two or three days.
而且我只用了两三天就精疲力竭了。
So I have a practice around trying to calm my anger, but just hearing you say that, occasionally on one of my podcasts, when I see something that's inherently wrong, and I point it out, or unjust, I do feel like a rush, like I'm being a leader or a baller or pointing something out.
所以我有一种练习，试图平息我的愤怒，但只是听到你这么说，偶尔在我的一个播客上，当我看到一些本质上错误的东西，我指出它，或者不公正，我确实感觉很匆忙，就像我是一个领导者或一个球员或指出一些东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, you are.
嗯，你是。
I will say, testosterone-
我会说，睾酮——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a conversation we've had a little bit before offline, at the level of the brain, it makes effort feel good.
我们之前在线下进行过一次对话，在大脑层面上，这让努力感觉良好。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Anyway, I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent, but I'd like your thoughts about how Testosterone can be leveraged for good versus bad, and maybe even, I don't know that we put everyone on testosterone.
不管怎样，我不想离题太多，但我想听听你对如何利用睾酮来做好事和做坏事的想法，甚至，我不知道我们是否让每个人都服用睾酮。
I'm not suggesting that.
我并不是这么建议的。
It can nuke your fertility if you don't do other things to offset it.
如果您不采取其他措施来抵消它，它可能会损害您的生育能力。
So, kids, be careful.
所以，孩子们，要小心。
But what are your thoughts on testosterone and just sort of proactive male behavior, testosterone in adults, older generations taking testosterone?
但是，您对睾酮、男性主动行为、成人睾酮、老一辈服用睾酮的看法如何？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Well, I'm one of them.
嗯，我是其中之一。
I'm on T therapy, and I do it because I quite frankly want to feel younger.
我接受 T 疗法，坦率地说，我这样做是因为我想感觉更年轻。
It makes me stronger in the gym, better erections, even weird things like my skin.
它让我在健身房里变得更强壮，勃起更好，甚至像我的皮肤这样奇怪的东西。
The way I would describe T therapy is it just kind of took me back three or five years in the gym.
我对 T 疗法的描述是，它让我回到了三五年的健身房时光。
So I'm an advocate for it.
所以我是它的倡导者。
You should do it under the guidance of a doctor, which I'm doing, but I'm a fan of it.
你应该在医生的指导下进行，我正在这样做，但我很喜欢它。
And I think you've done really interesting work about hormone replacement therapy.
我认为您在激素替代疗法方面做了非常有趣的工作。
I've listened to a lot of your work on it.
我听过你的很多关于这方面的工作。
The argument around testosterone and masculinity, I think, is a really important one in the political spectrum because to the far right's credit, they recognized the problem with young men before anybody else.
我认为，围绕睾丸激素和男子气概的争论在政治领域是一个非常重要的争论，因为极右翼值得称赞的是，他们比其他任何人都认识到了年轻人的问题。
The problem is they conflate masculinity with coarseness and cruelty, and their solution was to take non-whites and women back to the '50s.
问题是他们将男子气概与粗俗和残忍混为一谈，他们的解决方案是将非白人和女性带回到 50 年代。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some of them.
其中一些。
I'm not trying to protect them, but I would say, I don't know his political leanings, but my friend Jocko Willink has daughters.
我并不是想保护他们，但我想说，我不知道他的政治倾向，但我的朋友乔科·威林克有女儿。
He's not that guy you just described.
他不是你刚才描述的那个人。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
No, I'm talking about the far right.
不，我说的是极右翼。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Far right.
最右边。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I'm talking about whether it's Donald Trump or, quote unquote, "the traditional manosphere." It's about the subordination of women, and it's about demonstrating a certain harshness and coarseness and, I would argue, cruelty, and conflating that with masculinity.
我说的是唐纳德·特朗普，还是“传统的马诺圈”。这是关于女性的从属地位，是关于表现出一定的严厉和粗俗，我认为是残忍，并将其与男性气质混为一谈。
Whereas the far left, and this isn't helpful either, their advice to young men is to act more like a woman, and that they conflate masculinity with toxicity.
而极左派，这也没有帮助，他们对年轻男性的建议是表现得更像女性，并且他们将男性气概与毒性混为一谈。
And there has to be something in the middle.
中间一定有一些东西。
There has to be an aspirational form of masculinity, and I would argue that we need to celebrate that initiation, aggressiveness.
必须有一种令人向往的男子气概，我认为我们需要庆祝这种主动性和进取性。
Jimmy Carr, who's one of my idols now, says, "All right, you can demonstrate cruelty or you can demonstrate valor.
吉米·卡尔现在是我的偶像之一，他说：“好吧，你可以表现出残忍，也可以表现出勇气。
You can be a lover or you can be an addict." And Richard Reeves has this great saying.
你可以成为一个情人，也可以成为一个瘾君子。”理查德·里夫斯有这句伟大的话。
He's like, "You want a man to be invaluable in a shipwreck but acceptable at a dance." So there is a certain needle to be threaded here, but the Carnegie Award, which is given out to people who put their own physical safety in danger to save someone else's physical safety.
他说，“你希望一个男人在海难中发挥无价的作用，但在舞会上却可以接受。”所以这里有一定的线索，但卡内基奖是颁发给那些将自己的人身安全置于危险之中以拯救他人人身安全的人的。
It's literally the running into a burning house award.
这实际上是“闯入着火的房子”奖。
You see a car on fire, you put your own safety in harm's way to try and protect someone else's physical well-being.
你看到一辆汽车着火了，你冒着自己的安全去试图保护别人的身体健康。
They gave out 83 awards last year.
去年他们颁发了 83 个奖项。
75 of them were men.
其中 75 名是男性。
Men are more prone to take those types of not only bad risks, but good risks, and we need to celebrate that.
男性更容易承担这些类型的风险，不仅是坏风险，而且是好的风险，我们需要庆祝这一点。
Now, you need both.
现在，你两者都需要。
You need both, by the way, on the combat field because men are more likely to rush out and try and save their comrade, but women are more likely to say, "Let's not be stupid.
顺便说一句，在战场上两者都需要，因为男性更有可能冲出去试图拯救他们的战友，但女性更有可能说：“我们别犯傻了。
Let's think this through." You need both of those.
让我们考虑一下这个问题。”这两个你都需要。
This is the great thing, is that both energy when they come together make a better world, but we seem to be very suspicious of that masculine energy right now.
这是一件伟大的事情，两种能量结合在一起会创造一个更美好的世界，但我们现在似乎对这种男性能量非常怀疑。
And I think it needs to be celebrated.
我认为这需要庆祝。
There needs to be someone who sees movement in the tribe and immediately grabs the spear and goes and tries and kill it for the benefit of the community, who wants to put people on Mars and makes these crazy, ridiculous investments that make no sense and is super aggressive around these things.
需要有人看到部落里的动静，立即抓住长矛，为了社区的利益而试图杀死它，他想把人送上火星，并做出这些疯狂、荒谬的投资，这些投资毫无意义，而且在这些事情上超级激进。
I think that's a wonderful energy.
我认为这是一种奇妙的能量。
And when I went to the Democratic National Convention, I saw a parade of special interest groups talking about the very real issues they all face, but I didn't see one mention of the group that has fallen further faster than any group in recent history, and that is young men.
当我去参加民主党全国代表大会时，我看到一群特殊利益集团在谈论他们都面临的非常现实的问题，但我没有看到一个人提到这个群体比近代历史上任何群体跌落得更快，那就是年轻人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I think that's because based on the feedback I've received, for instance, when we had Terry Real on the podcast, who talks about some balance of masculine and feminine phenotypes and therapy and partner-to-partner communication and these kinds of things.
嗯，我认为这是因为根据我收到的反馈，例如，当我们在播客上邀请特里·雷亚尔（Terry Real）时，他谈论了男性和女性表型、治疗以及伴侣间沟通等的一些平衡。
The pushback that I always get, or I got there, not because of Terry specifically, was as long as we can't talk about toxic femininity, these were clearly men writing to me-
我总是遇到的阻力，或者说我遇到的阻力，不是因为特里，而是只要我们不能谈论有毒的女性气质，这些显然是男人写信给我-
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
then this whole discussion feels imbalanced.
那么整个讨论就会感觉不平衡。
That's how they feel.
他们就是这样的感觉。
They feel like there's this idea that there are good men and there are bad men and there are really bad men.
他们觉得有这样一种观念：有好人，有坏人，还有真正的坏人。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Totally agree.
完全同意。
I've got the optics of a macaque monkey blindfolded on LSD when it comes to certain members of our species.
当涉及到我们物种的某些成员时，我的感觉就像一只被蒙住眼睛的猕猴服用了LSD。
But when it comes to men, I grew up in a big group of boys, et cetera, a big group of men.
但说到男人，我是在一大群男孩中长大的，等等，一大群男人。
I get it.
我得到它。
That statement is true.
这句话是真的。
There are great ones, there are eh ones, and then there are really bad dudes.
有伟大的人，有呃的人，还有非常糟糕的人。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So when you talk about manosphere, I would say, if I had my way, manosphere would apply to just the really bad ones because that name has become synonymous with really bad men.
所以当你谈论manosphere时，我会说，如果我有办法的话，manosphere将只适用于真正坏的人，因为这个名字已经成为真正坏人的代名词。
Okay, we can come back to that perhaps.
好吧，也许我们可以回到这个话题。
But there is this issue that no one is allowed to say there's wonderful femininity, there's women with issues, right?
但有一个问题，没有人可以说有美妙的女性气质，有有问题的女性，对吗？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then there's bad women.
然后还有坏女人。
You're not allowed to say it.
你不被允许说出来。
The only women that I can have that conversation with are lesbians.
我唯一能与之交谈的女性是女同性恋。
They were the ones who explained to me, "There are truly bad women." And I said, "Well, how come no one talks about that except lesbians?" And they said, "Ah, because we are living in a time now where men talking about women or having things they wish for women to do differently-"
她们向我解释说：“世界上确实有坏女人。”我说：“好吧，为什么除了女同性恋之外没有人谈论这个？”他们说，“啊，因为我们现在生活在一个男人谈论女人或者希望女人做不同的事情的时代——”
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
itself is seen as toxic, that women feel, this is what I was told, so I'm regurgitating, that they've suffered so much at the hands of men that we need like a good 20 or 30 years before we're-
女性觉得它本身就被视为有毒，这就是我被告知的，所以我反省，她们在男人手中遭受了如此多的痛苦，我们需要大约20或30年才能——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
To catch up
赶上
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
ready to get to that conversation.
准备好开始对话了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which, of course, for young men growing up, just makes them feel like, okay, it's all on us.
当然，对于成长中的年轻人来说，这只会让他们觉得，好吧，这一切都在我们身上。
And that's good.
这很好。
Agency advocacy for one's own life is important.
机构为自己的生活辩护很重要。
Stay out of the really bad men category and ideally the not so good men category, too.
远离真正的坏男人类别，最好也远离不太好的男人类别。
But the polarization, I think, is set by the fact that, sure, we can talk about toxic masculinity, we can talk about the male crisis, but why aren't we talking about the suicide rate?
但我认为，两极分化是由这样一个事实造成的：当然，我们可以谈论有毒的男子气概，我们可以谈论男性危机，但为什么我们不谈论自杀率呢？
Well, because women's issues, I think in a good way, we're still thinking that we need to protect and provide for the women and the children in our society.
嗯，因为妇女问题，我认为从一个好的方面来说，我们仍然认为我们需要保护和提供社会中的妇女和儿童。
We're holding that in the highest regard.
我们对此表示最崇高的敬意。
They get the life rafts when the Titanic goes down.
当泰坦尼克号沉没时，他们得到了救生筏。
So It's complicated, and there's a lot of off-limits terms, and I'm glad that they're coming up today just organically, because those off-limits terms, I think, are the potential bridges between where we sit now, where we look at men and we go, "Oh, shit, they're a mess." Some of them are just downright awful.
所以这很复杂，有很多禁区条款，我很高兴今天它们有机地出现，因为我认为这些禁区条款是我们现在所处的位置、我们看待男人的位置和我们之间的潜在桥梁，“哦，操，他们一团糟。”其中一些简直太糟糕了。
We look over here and we go, "Man, they're really dissatisfied." The assumption is if a woman is dissatisfied or somehow not doing well, that a man failed.
我们看看这里，然后说：“伙计，他们真的很不满意。”人们的假设是，如果一个女人不满意或者不知何故做得不好，那么男人就失败了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's a presumption that a lot of people make.
这是很多人都会做出的假设。
I don't make that presumption.
我不做这个假设。
And I can look back to times in my youth where '90s narrative probably fed that a bit.
我可以回顾一下我年轻时的时光，90 年代的叙事可能对此有所助益。
But now, I think we need to really pull back the veil and go, take a real hard look at ourselves and try and do this mesh that we're talking about.
但现在，我认为我们需要真正揭开面纱，认真审视自己，并尝试做我们正在谈论的这个网格。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah, the only way you get there is with data.
是的，实现这一目标的唯一方法就是数据。
So from 1945 to 2000, America registered a third of the world's economic growth, a third of its prosperity with only 5% of the population.
因此，从 1945 年到 2000 年，美国仅用 5% 的人口就实现了世界经济增长的三分之一、繁荣的三分之一。
So we had 6X the growth of the rest of the world, right?
所以我们的增长是世界其他地区的 6 倍，对吗？
And within that 6X, the majority of that prosperity was sequestered to the one-third of the population that were white, male, and heterosexual.
在这 6X 中，大部分繁荣都被三分之一的白人、男性和异性恋人口所掌握。
It was just a lot harder to participate in that uplift if you weren't in that group.
如果你不在那个群体中，那么参与这种提升就会困难得多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
So men of my generation, born with my sexual orientation, skin color, and gender, arguably had 15 to 18X the winds in their sails.
因此，我们这一代的男人，天生具有我的性取向、肤色和性别，可以说他们的航行有 15 到 18 倍的风。
The question is, should a young man now pay the price for my privilege?
问题是，一个年轻人现在应该为我的特权付出代价吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
And I understand the gag reflex when I start talking or advocating for men, because they look at me and they said, "You had an unfair advantage." 100% guilty as charged.
我理解当我开始谈论或为男性辩护时的呕吐反射，因为他们看着我说，“你有不公平的优势。”被指控100%有罪。
But now, a young man who is four times as likely to kill himself, three times as likely to be addicted, 12 times as likely to be incarcerated, and men of my generation aren't stepping up and providing the mentorship or voting for the programs that might take a little bit of money away from my generation to support all young people and bring them up.
但现在，一个年轻人自杀的可能性是普通人的四倍，上瘾的可能性是普通人的三倍，被监禁的可能性是普通人的十二倍，而我们这一代的男性并没有挺身而出，为这些项目提供指导或投票，而这些项目可能会从我们这一代人身上拿走一点钱来支持所有年轻人并抚养他们。
And most of the programs and policies I advocate for would advocate for all young people.
我倡导的大多数计划和政策都会支持所有年轻人。
The average seven-year-old is 72% wealthier than the seven-year-old 40 years ago.
7 岁儿童的平均财富比 40 年前的 7 岁儿童富裕 72%。
The 25-year-old is 24% less wealthy.
25 岁的人的财富减少了 24%。
And then every day at Speedball with 110 notifications telling them that they're failing.
然后，Speedball 每天都会收到 110 条通知，告诉他们失败了。
And what do you know?
你知道什么？
They're the most obese, depressed, and anxious generation we've had in a long time.
他们是我们长期以来最肥胖、最抑郁、最焦虑的一代。
And there really isn't an honest conversation.
而且确实没有诚实的对话。
And I've said this on stage, and it gets some pushback.
我在台上说过这句话，但遭到了一些反对。
I'll say, I think women make better managers.
我想说的是，我认为女性能成为更好的管理者。
I think that they are more emotionally in touch with other people.
我认为他们与其他人有更多的情感联系。
They have higher EQ.
他们有更高的情商。
I think they'll probably make better doctors and lawyers.
我认为他们可能会成为更好的医生和律师。
I think their attention to detail, genetically or anthropologically, whatever you want to call it, their bedside manner, and there's more women in both law school and medical school now, especially medical school.
我认为他们对细节的关注，无论是从遗传学还是人类学角度，无论你想怎么称呼它，他们的床边态度，现在法学院和医学院都有更多的女性，尤其是医学院。
If I say that, women are better managers, will make better doctors, nodding, everyone.
如果我这么说，女性会成为更好的管理者，也会成为更好的医生，大家点头。
The women agree, and the guys will look around and go nod, right?
女人们同意了，男人们就会环顾四周并点头，对吗？
If I say, men on average make better entrepreneurs, and that's not to say that women shouldn't be offered the same opportunities, and they haven't been, right?
如果我说，男性平均能成为更好的企业家，这并不是说女性不应该获得同样的机会，而且她们也没有这样做，对吗？
95% of the capital has been not only allocated to men, but the majority of it has been allocated by men who went to one or two schools, Harvard and Stanford.
95%的资本不仅分配给了男性，而且大部分分配给了曾就读于一两所学校，哈佛和斯坦福的男性。
There's a, "I don't feel safe around you."
有一句话是“我在你身边感觉不安全”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Who doesn't feel safe around you?
谁在你身边感到不安全？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
It's fine to say women make better X, Y, and Z.
可以说女性在 X、Y 和 Z 方面都做得更好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
To say men are better at anything-
要说男人在任何事情上都更擅长——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, if you said it on X-
好吧，如果你在 X 上这么说的话——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Better combat soldiers
更好的战斗士兵
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Let's be honest, if you said it on X, everyone would be like, "Cool.
老实说，如果你在 X 上这么说，每个人都会说：“酷。
Males make better entrepreneurs." If you said it in a room...
男性是更好的企业家。”如果你在房间里说的话...
Again, I don't want to make this political, but we can't avoid this.
再说一次，我不想让这件事变得政治化，但我们无法避免这一点。
If you said it among a more center to right-leaning crowd-
如果你是在中间偏右的人群中这么说的——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I think you'd probably get less pushback also from women.
我认为女性对你的抵制也可能会更少。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I think that's fair.
我认为这是公平的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm not saying it's who you're hanging out with.
我并不是说你和谁一起出去玩。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
No, that's a fair point.
不，这是一个公平的观点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I barely hang out with anybody, so I've got a very small world, but-
我几乎不和任何人出去玩，所以我的世界很小，但是——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Well, but to your point, if you go to the Democratic national website, dnc.org, and they changed this, but I talked about this a lot on CNN, left-leaning website.
好吧，但就你的观点而言，如果你去民主党国家网站 dnc.org，他们会改变这一点，但我在 CNN 这个左倾网站上谈论了很多。
They have a page saying, "Who we serve," and they outline 16 special interest groups: veterans, the disabled, Black Americans, Native Americans, seniors.
他们有一个页面写着“我们为谁服务”，并概述了 16 个特殊利益群体：退伍军人、残疾人、美国黑人、美国原住民、老年人。
And I added it up, and it was 74% of the population.
我加起来，是人口的 74%。
And when you say you're advocating for 74% of the population, you're not advocating for 74%, you're discriminating against 26%.
当你说你为 74% 的人辩护时，你并不是在为 74% 的人辩护，而是在歧视 26% 的人。
And basically, the only people they didn't mention were young men.
基本上，他们唯一没有提到的就是年轻人。
So I understand the notion that men have had so much disproportionate advantage that there needs to be a catch-up period, but I would argue it's gone a little bit overboard.
所以我理解这样一种观念，即男性拥有如此多的不成比例的优势，需要一个追赶期，但我认为这有点过头了。
Our school system, K through 12, I would argue, is biased against boys.
我认为，我们的学校系统，从幼儿园到十二年级，对男孩有偏见。
A boy is twice as likely to be suspended on a behavior-adjusted basis as a girl.
根据行为调整，男孩被停学的可能性是女孩的两倍。
A Black boy, five times as likely.
黑人男孩，可能性是黑人男孩的五倍。
70 to 80% of K through 12 teachers are women.
幼儿园至 12 名教师中 70% 至 80% 是女性。
Who do people naturally advocate for?
人们自然会拥护谁？
The people that remind them of themselves at that age.
那些让他们想起那个年纪的自己的人。
Seven in 10 high school valedictorians are girls.
十分之七的高中毕业生致辞者是女孩。
It's now 60/40 female/male in college.
现在大学里男女比例为 60/40。
And so the bottom line is we level the playing field and there's a little bit of bias, and women have totally blown by men.
所以最重要的是，我们创造了公平的竞争环境，但存在一点偏见，女性完全被男性打败了。
Fine.
美好的。
More power to them.
给他们更多的权力。
But what do we do now that young men just, quite frankly, don't have obvious paths to prosperity, and young people aren't as economically prosperous relative as they used to be, and young men are disproportionately evaluated in society, especially in the mating market, on their economic viability.
但坦率地说，年轻人没有明显的致富之路，年轻人在经济上也不像以前那样富裕，而且社会上尤其是婚介市场上对年轻人的经济生存能力的评价过高，我们现在该怎么办？
And I get a ton of pushback saying, "No, I'm just looking for an emotionally in touch male." I think that is such bullshit.
我遭到很多人的反对，说：“不，我只是在寻找一个情感上有联系的男性。”我认为这真是废话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, it's total bullshit.
哦，这完全是胡说八道。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
There's still economic hypergamy.
经济上仍然存在一夫多妻制。
Educational hypergamy has leveled out.
教育上的一夫多妻制已经趋于平稳。
There's a lot of people who, women who will marry a guy who didn't go to college or...
有很多人，女人会嫁给一个没有上过大学或......
Educational hypergamy has vastly reduced.
教育上的一夫多妻制已经大大减少。
But in cities where women make as much as men, so there's an equality, if you find a couple, twice as many couples, the male earns more money than the woman.
但在城市里，女性挣得和男性一样多，所以这是平等的，如果你找到一对夫妇，两倍的夫妇，男性比女性赚更多的钱。
Economic hypergamy is still in absolutely full force.
经济上的一夫多妻制仍然完全有效。
So if we don't figure out a way To level up all young people economically such that there's more paths for economic viability for young men, I think it's just going to tear at our society.
因此，如果我们不找到一种方法来提高所有年轻人的经济水平，从而为年轻人提供更多的经济生存途径，我认为这只会撕裂我们的社会。
We're going to have lower birth rates, fewer people to support the very expensive programs, which make up 40% of our government spending now on people over the age of 65, and we're going to have real issues.
我们的出生率将会降低，支持非常昂贵的项目的人数将会减少，这些项目目前占我们政府对 65 岁以上人群的支出的 40%，我们将会遇到真正的问题。
And people say, "Well, that's repackaged violence, that men are more violent." I'm like, "No, it's just the reality." If you look at every unstable, violent society in history, it always has one thing at the core of it, and that is a group of young men with a lack of economic or romantic opportunities.
人们说，“嗯，这是重新包装的暴力，男人更暴力。”我想，“不，这只是现实。”如果你看看历史上每一个不稳定、暴力的社会，它的核心总是有一个东西，那就是一群缺乏经济或浪漫机会的年轻人。
I don't care if it's Weimar Germany or some of the most unstable places in the Middle East or Africa.
我不在乎这是德国魏玛还是中东或非洲一些最不稳定的地方。
When you have the most dangerous person in the world is a young man who is lonely and broke, and we are producing way too many of them.
当世界上最危险的人是一个孤独且破产的年轻人时，我们正在生产太多这样的人。
And by the way, I don't think the remedy here is affirmative action for men.
顺便说一句，我不认为这里的补救措施是针对男性的平权行动。
I just think that's too politicized.
我只是觉得这太政治化了。
But we have to stop transferring wealth from people their age to people my age.
但我们必须停止将财富从同龄人转移到我这个年龄的人身上。
Why the hell are we transferring every year $1.3 trillion from a generation that is the most anxious, depressed, and obese in American history to the wealthiest generation in the history of the planet, called Social Security?
为什么我们每年要把 1.3 万亿美元从美国历史上最焦虑、抑郁和肥胖的一代转移到地球历史上最富有的一代，即社会保障？
That's the third rail in politics.
这是政治中的第三条轨道。
I'm not suggesting anyone should die in poverty.
我并不是建议任何人都应该死于贫困。
Should you and I get Social Security?
你和我应该领取社会保障吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No.
不。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't need it.
我不需要它。
No, I don't need that.
不，我不需要那个。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I mean probably a third of seniors really don't need Social Security.
我的意思是，可能有三分之一的老年人确实不需要社会保障。
But you get near that, you can't get elected, right?
但如果你接近这个目标，你就无法当选，对吗？
40% of all government spending is going to people over the age of 65.
政府总支出的 40% 流向了 65 岁以上的人群。
It's going to be 50% within 10 years.
10年内将达到50%。
We spend more money on ICE than we spend on children.
我们在 ICE 上花的钱比在孩子身上花的钱还多。
My generation, I don't even think of us-- I'm on the edge of Gen X, baby boomer.
我这一代人，我什至没有想到我们——我处于 X 一代、婴儿潮一代的边缘。
The best way to describe my generation would be the vampire generation.
描述我们这一代的最好方式就是吸血鬼一代。
We were never drafted into war.
我们从未被征召入伍。
We never really had to serve.
我们从来没有真正需要服务。
And what has my economic complexion been in America?
我在美国的经济状况如何？
Unprecedented prosperity, but the lowest taxes in modern history.
前所未有的繁荣，却是现代史上最低的税收。
So a lot of these solutions, I just think, are common sense.
因此，我认为其中很多解决方案都是常识。
We need to do away...
我们需要摆脱...
Social Security tax.
社会保障税。
6% up to 160,000.
6% 至 160,000。
So a kid working for me making 150 or 160K, good living, they pay $9,000.
因此，一个为我工作的孩子年薪 15 万或 16 万，生活不错，他们支付 9,000 美元。
I make a lot more than that.
我赚的比那多得多。
I pay $9,000 because it tops out at 160 grand.
我付了 9,000 美元，因为它的最高价格为 160 格兰德。
Why does that make any sense?
为什么这有意义？
Two biggest tax deductions, mortgage interest rate and capital gains.
两项最大的税收减免，抵押贷款利率和资本利得。
Who owns homes and stocks?
谁拥有房屋和股票？
People our age.
我们这个年纪的人。
Who rents and makes their money from current income?
谁通过当前收入租房并赚钱？
All the dudes in this office, the young kids, right?
这间办公室里所有的人，还有小孩子，对吧？
We are literally transferring trillions of dollars from young people to old people, and we wonder why young men feel anxious when they are dispurposed.
我们实际上正在将数万亿美元从年轻人转移到老年人身上，我们想知道为什么年轻人在失去目标时会感到焦虑。
75% of women say economic viability is key to a mate.
75% 的女性表示，经济能力是择偶的关键。
It's only 25% of men.
男性中只有25%。
Women still look at men as economic providers.
女性仍然将男性视为经济提供者。
And so you have this entire generation of young men who feel like they have no purpose, no on-ramps to the middle class, and are being evaluated on a set of criteria that get harder and harder for them each year.
因此，这一代年轻人感觉自己没有目标，没有通往中产阶级的通道，并且根据一套对他们来说每年都变得越来越难的标准进行评估。
And then this unbelievable set of expectations that they're taught they should have because it seems like everyone else is making a million dollars selling ETH or is in amazing shape or has a ridiculously hot boyfriend or girlfriend and has artist passes to Coachella.
然后，他们被教导应该拥有这一系列令人难以置信的期望，因为似乎其他人都通过出售 ETH 赚了 100 万美元，或者拥有令人惊叹的身材，或者拥有一个非常性感的男朋友或女朋友，并且拥有科切拉音乐节的艺术家通行证。
So it'd be shocking if they weren't depressed and obese.
因此，如果他们没有抑郁和肥胖，那就令人震惊了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
The analogy that comes to mind is academic science.
我想到的类比是学术科学。
I used to joke, the advantage of having a dad who was a scientist who was also a little bit irreverent was that I grew up around an understanding of how academics works, and early on, I thought, as much as I love my colleagues, a lot of them need to retire.
我曾经开玩笑说，有一个既是科学家又有点不敬的父亲的好处是，我是在对学术如何运作的理解中长大的，很早就我想，尽管我很爱我的同事，但他们中的很多人都需要退休。
They just need to go.
他们只需要离开。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the reason they need to go is because they were having three, four, two to four NIH grants, like million-dollar-a-year grants.
他们需要离开的原因是因为他们有三、四、两到四项国家卫生研究院的资助，比如每年数百万美元的资助。
And that itself isn't a problem except that there wasn't enough money for young investigators, and so fields die, and science dies.
这本身并不是问题，只是没有足够的资金资助年轻的研究人员，因此领域消亡，科学消亡。
They don't retire.
他们不会退休。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so it was very interesting.
这非常有趣。
Right before the Trump administration came in, I started logging into these NIH hearings, and I think our previous NIH director, and I will go on record in saying, and our current NIH director, Jay Bhattacharya, both very good directors in different ways, trying to do important different things.
就在特朗普政府上台之前，我开始登录 NIH 听证会，我认为我们的前任 NIH 主任，我将公开表示，我们现任的 NIH 主任杰伊·巴塔查亚 (Jay Bhattacharya) 都是以不同方式表现出色的主任，试图做重要的不同事情。
And you'll notice the budget was not cut under Jay, and IDC, for the academics out there, was not cut.
您会注意到，在 Jay 的领导下，预算没有被削减，对于学术界来说，IDC 也没有被削减。
But an interesting problem was outed at the end of Carolyn's role at NIH, the former director, and it was the following.
但在卡罗琳（Carolyn）担任美国国立卫生研究院（NIH）前任所长一职结束时，出现了一个有趣的问题，如下所示。
Someone said, "What is the deal?
有人说：“这有什么关系？
Why are people living longer and young people are killing themselves?
为什么人们越来越长寿，而年轻人却自杀？
And we have all these mental health issues, mostly among men, but also among young women." And she said, "It is true that we've been very successful in medicine at getting people 65 and older to live much, much longer, to treat late-stage diabetes, to treat cancer, to treat...
我们面临所有这些心理健康问题，主要是男性，但也有年轻女性。”她说：“确实，我们在医学方面非常成功，让 65 岁及以上的人活得更久，治疗晚期糖尿病，治疗癌症，治疗......
We don't have cures for these things, but we've extended life for the older generation and, to a large degree, the quality of life, especially if they're willing to get sunlight, exercise, probably not drink alcohol at that age or drink a lot less, not smoke." People are living longer and longer and longer, and tons of research money is being poured into this.
我们无法治愈这些疾病，但我们延长了老一辈的寿命，并在很大程度上提高了生活质量，特别是如果他们愿意接受阳光、锻炼身体，在那个年龄可能不喝酒或少喝酒，不吸烟。”人们的寿命越来越长，大量的研究资金正在投入其中。
There's this enormous gap where many of the problems that are most important to young people to thrive in every way, not just health, but mental health, et cetera, they're just not even being studied.
存在着巨大的差距，许多对于年轻人在各方面茁壮成长最重要的问题，不仅是健康，还有心理健康等等，甚至都没有得到研究。
So there's this top weighting of age and of seniority, clearly in what you're describing, but also in the science that we're funding, and that clearly, clearly harms young people because no one's studying porn addiction in a serious way at scale.
因此，年龄和资历的最高权重，显然在你所描述的内容中，而且在我们资助的科学中，这显然伤害了年轻人，因为没有人大规模地认真研究色情成瘾。
Nobody's studying social media addiction in a serious way at scale.
没有人大规模地认真研究社交媒体成瘾。
I think what Jonathan's done is fantastic, and others are now getting involved in this.
我认为乔纳森所做的事情非常棒，其他人现在也参与其中。
But it's a problem if you look at the numbers as serious as cancer for people who are in their 50s and older.
但如果你看看 50 多岁及以上的人患上癌症一样严重的数字，那就是一个问题了。
And actually, cancers and diabetes and deaths of despair, as our previous surgeon general pointed out, are among the greatest killers of young people.
事实上，正如我们前任卫生局局长指出的那样，癌症、糖尿病和绝望死亡是年轻人的最大杀手。
So we've totally lost perspective in many ways.
所以我们在很多方面完全失去了观点。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Agreed.
同意。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know what to do about Social Security.
我不知道社保该怎么办。
That's your domain, not mine.
那是你的领域，不是我的。
But I vote very strongly for What they do in Japan, force scientists to retire.
但我强烈支持他们在日本所做的事情，迫使科学家退休。
I'm going to earn some hate from my colleagues, but anyway, force them to retire at 65.
我会招致同事的一些仇恨，但无论如何，迫使他们在 65 岁退休。
They still collect a salary and in many cases, a pension if they're state-funded schools.
如果他们是国家资助的学校，他们仍然领取工资，在许多情况下还领取养老金。
They still have healthcare.
他们仍然有医疗保健。
Their kids still probably went to college partially for free, the inside ball of these schools that you and I work at, right?
他们的孩子可能仍然部分免费上大学，这是你和我工作的这些学校的内部球，对吧？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This whole network.
这整个网络。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
And they got in.
他们进去了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they got in.
他们进去了。
And so let them retire.
所以让他们退休吧。
Let them keep their office.
让他们保留他们的办公室。
I do believe there's a lot of wisdom in the older generations, but I was quite happy to-
我确实相信老一辈人有很多智慧，但我很高兴——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
There was your land acknowledgement.
这是你的土地确认书。
Let me go on a sidebar.
让我去侧边栏吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I just want to say there were senior faculty members like Lubert Stryer, I'll just call these people out, who wrote the book "Biochemistry" and-
好吧，我只想说有像 Lubert Stryer 这样的高级教职人员，我就把这些人叫出来，他们写了《生物化学》一书，而且——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
they were so.
他们就是这样。
Lubert retired, closed his lab.
鲁伯特退休了，关闭了他的实验室。
He made a bunch of money at Affymetrix, the gene chip company.
他在基因芯片公司 Affymetrix 赚了很多钱。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he used to come around to the lab and go, "Hey, what are you guys working on?" He would talk to the students and give them amazing ideas.
他常常来到实验室说：“嘿，你们在做什么？”他会与学生交谈并给他们提出惊人的想法。
I think that generational wisdom passed down is great, but guess what he wasn't doing?
我认为代代相传的智慧是伟大的，但你猜他没有做什么？
Consuming grant dollars, consuming square footage on campus.
消耗补助金，消耗校园面积。
He was shedding knowledge for free because the system had taken care of him.
他无偿地传播知识，因为系统已经照顾了他。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah, he's a Yoda.
是的，他是尤达。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He's a Yoda.
他是尤达。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
But he's an outlier.
但他是个异类。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
So you work at Stanford, one of the finest faculties ever assembled.
所以你在斯坦福大学工作，这是有史以来最优秀的院系之一。
NYU at the business school, we have an outstanding faculty.
纽约大学商学院，我们拥有一支优秀的师资队伍。
I would argue one of the best in the world, not because it's our fault, but because every great faculty member loves the idea of coming and spending four, eight, 10 years in New York and living in SoHo.
我认为这是世界上最好的大学之一，不是因为这是我们的错，而是因为每一位优秀的教员都喜欢来到纽约并在 SoHo 生活四年、八年、十年的想法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it's pretty good.
是的，非常好。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
That's our advantage.
这就是我们的优势。
"Hey, come here.
“嘿，过来一下。
We'll give you free housing.
我们将为您提供免费住房。
You and your wife, your kids are out of the house.
你和你的妻子、你的孩子都不在家。
Come teach accounting here." We get amazing faculty.
来这里教会计吧。”我们拥有令人惊叹的师资力量。
A third should be put on a fucking ice floe.
第三个应该放在他妈的浮冰上。
They get to a point where they aren't adding as much value.
他们已经到了无法增加太多价值的地步。
They were the bomb on GAAP 1 accounting in 1988.
它们是 1988 年 GAAP 1 会计上的炸弹。
They get tenure, and they won't leave.
他们获得终身教职，并且不会离开。
And they leave feet first.
他们首先离开脚。
And the result is young people who could bring a certain creativity, a new way of looking at things, there's no room for them to come up.
结果是年轻人可以带来一定的创造力，一种看待事物的新方式，但他们没有发挥的空间。
And I want to go back to the notion of vampire generation.
我想回到吸血鬼一代的概念。
We talk about sunlight, being social, eating well, sleeping well, all the keys, right?
我们谈论阳光、社交、吃得好、睡得好，所有这些都是关键，对吧？
I would argue the number one predictor of longevity is one thing, money.
我认为长寿的首要预测因素是一件事，那就是金钱。
China's gone from an average life expectancy of 47 to 77 in 6 years as their wealth has gone up.
随着财富的增加，中国的平均预期寿命在六年内从 47 岁增至 77 岁。
You're in the bottom decile, I believe, of income, you live 12 years less long than someone in the upper decile, right?
我相信，你的收入处于最低十分之一，你的寿命比较高十分之一的人少 12 年，对吧？
It's about money.
这是关于钱的。
And all we have done is not only suck money from young to old, we have sucked life because we are so selfish and so unwilling to pay it forward.
我们所做的一切不仅是从年轻到年老地吸取金钱，我们还吸取了生命，因为我们是如此自私，如此不愿意将其传递下去。
Old people elect even older people to vote themselves more money.
老年人甚至会选举年长的人为自己投更多的钱。
And what they are doing, maybe unwittingly, but they are doing it, is they are robbing life and happiness from young people and transferring it to old people.
他们正在做的事情，也许是无意的，但他们正在这样做，他们正在剥夺年轻人的生命和幸福，并将其转移给老年人。
There not only needs to be term limits.
不仅需要有任期限制。
Washington, D.C., the people allocating capital has become a cross between "The Golden Girls" and "The Land of the Walking Dead." Enough already.
华盛顿特区，人们分配资本已经成为“黄金女郎”和“行尸走肉之地”的混合体。已经够了。
We have totally robbed not only money, we have robbed life and health from young people because money in our society is health.
我们不仅剥夺了年轻人的金钱，还剥夺了年轻人的生命和健康，因为在我们的社会里，金钱就是健康。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How do we create financial incentives inside of uniqueness?
我们如何在独特性中创造经济激励？
I think that's what makes the United States great, because I saw social media that way, but I will say that's because it worked out that way for me.
我认为这就是美国之所以伟大的原因，因为我就是这样看待社交媒体的，但我会说那是因为它对我来说是这样的。
I love learning.
我热爱学习。
I love teaching.
我热爱教学。
I flipped on a camera, and I started the podcast with that guy sitting over there, and it worked out great.
我打开相机，开始和坐在那儿的那个人一起播客，效果很好。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
The way I would describe the transition that's been bad for America is that back when I was growing up, America had a commitment to and even loved the unremarkable.
我对这种对美国不利的转变的描述是，在我成长的过程中，美国一直致力于甚至热爱平淡无奇的事物。
I was remarkably unremarkable.
我实在是太不起眼了。
And that's not a humble brag.
这可不是谦虚的吹牛。
I got 1130 on the SAT.
我的 SAT 成绩是 1130。
I had a 3.1 GPA.
我的 GPA 是 3.1。
We didn't have any money.
我们没有钱。
But this is what I got.
但这就是我得到的。
I got assisted lunch, right?
我得到了协助午餐，对吗？
And the great state of California used to send coupons to my house that were the same color as the kids would buy in school, so I wouldn't be embarrassed, right?
伟大的加利福尼亚州过去常常向我家寄送优惠券，这些优惠券的颜色与孩子们在学校购买的颜色相同，这样我就不会感到尴尬，对吧？
I got Pell Grants.
我获得了佩尔助学金。
I got accepted to UCLA on appeal, 74% admissions rate.
我通过上诉被加州大学洛杉矶分校录取，录取率 74%。
I was one of the 26% that didn't get in.
我是那 26% 没有进入的人之一。
And I was in Solomon Sheldon, came home really upset one day and said, "Is this my life?" I was always told I was funny.
我在《所罗门·谢尔顿》中，有一天回到家非常沮丧，我说：“这就是我的生活吗？”我总是被告知我很有趣。
I wanted to be a doctor.
我想成为一名医生。
And my mom said, "Well, is there an appeal process?" And I remember the day the admissions director called me and said, "You're not qualified, but you're a son of California, and we're going to give you a shot."
我妈妈说：“那么，有上诉程序吗？”我记得那天招生主任打电话给我说：“你没有资格，但你是加州的儿子，我们会给你一个机会。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Son of California.
加利福尼亚州的儿子。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Son of California.
加利福尼亚州的儿子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Imagine that.
想象一下。
Yeah.
是的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
What a great statement.
多么好的声明啊。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I get emotional just thinking about it.
一想到这个我就很激动。
And then I got, as I said, I got into Berkeley.
然后，正如我所说，我进入了伯克利。
And this is a brag and a flex, but I'm going to make it.
这是一种吹牛和变通，但我会成功的。
I've given 20 million bucks back to the University of California in the last five years.
过去五年我向加州大学回馈了 2000 万美元。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Awesome.
太棒了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
So it's worked out for all of us.
所以这对我们所有人来说都是可行的。
America isn't about identifying a super class of rich kids and the freakishly remarkable.
美国并不是要找出超级富家子弟和杰出人物。
It's about betting on unremarkable kids.
这是关于把赌注押在不起眼的孩子身上。
So this is what we need to do.
所以这就是我们需要做的。
If you're a university and you have more than a billion-dollar endowment and you're not growing your freshman class faster than population, you're a hedge fund with classes, and you should lose your tax-free status.
如果你是一所大学，拥有超过十亿美元的捐赠基金，并且你的新生班级增长速度没有超过人口增长速度，那么你就是一个有班级的对冲基金，你应该失去免税地位。
If 20% of your degrees aren't for non-traditional things such as nursing or specialty construction or vocational programming, you don't get access to tax-free money.
如果你 20% 的学位不是用于非传统领域，例如护理或专业建设或职业规划，你就无法获得免税资金。
In my opinion, mandatory national service.
在我看来，义务兵役。
I think there's a ton of things we need to do.
我认为我们需要做很多事情。
I think we should tax the shit out of private schools and reinvest that in public schools.
我认为我们应该对私立学校征税，然后将其重新投资于公立学校。
We need to disassociate house property taxes from the quality of the schools.
我们需要将房产税与学校质量分开。
Think about the disadvantage.
想想缺点吧。
The average public school spends $15,000 a year on a kid.
公立学校平均每年在一个孩子身上花费 15,000 美元。
The schools in poor areas, $9,000.
贫困地区学校，9000美元。
The average private school spends $72,000 a year per student.
私立学校平均每个学生每年花费 72,000 美元。
So if you're fortunate enough to go to a private school, like my kids, we're spending 850 grand on them, and some kids were spending 120 grand.
所以，如果你有幸能像我的孩子一样去私立学校，我们会在他们身上花费 850 格兰德，有些孩子会花费 120 格兰德。
And you want that kid to compete against another kid to get into an elite university?
你想让那个孩子与另一个孩子竞争进入精英大学吗？
And we all tell ourselves this myth now that, oh, with AI, college doesn't matter.
现在我们都告诉自己这个神话，哦，有了人工智能，大学并不重要。
It's never been more important.
它从未如此重要。
And if you had a drug that can make it twice as likely that you get married, half as likely that you kill yourself, three times as likely that you become a millionaire, ten times as likely that you run for office, four times as likely that you become an officer in the military Three times less likely that you become obese.
如果你有一种药物，可以使你结婚的可能性提高两倍，自杀的可能性降低一半，成为百万富翁的可能性提高三倍，竞选公职的可能性提高十倍，成为军官的可能性提高四倍，肥胖的可能性降低三倍。
Would you hoard that drug?
你会囤积那种药吗？
And then when someone gets into the working environment or the economy, would you create a tax policy that just transfers money from you to the wealthiest generation in the world?
然后，当有人进入工作环境或经济时，您会制定一项税收政策，将钱从您那里转移到世界上最富有的一代吗？
There's just so many basic common sense solution around higher ed and K through 12 that we come up with all these reasons.
关于高等教育和 K 到 12 年级有很多基本常识解决方案，因此我们提出了所有这些原因。
We use terms like network effects or globalization or tech, and it's nothing but thinly veiled bullshit to transfer more money.
我们使用诸如网络效应、全球化或科技之类的术语，而这只不过是不加掩饰地胡说八道，以转移更多的资金。
The bottom 99% in young people are just nutrition for older people.
年轻人中最底层的99%只是老年人的营养。
And to me, it's fairly obvious.
对我来说，这是相当明显的。
They're just common sense solutions.
它们只是常识性的解决方案。
And higher ed has become, unfortunately, an emblematic of the rejection LVMH-ing of America, where you either, at the age of 18, have to be freakishly remarkable.
不幸的是，高等教育已经成为美国拒绝 LVMH 的象征，在美国，你要么在 18 岁，就必须表现得异常出色。
Are you captain of your lacrosse team and building wells in Africa?
您是长曲棍球队的队长并在非洲打井吗？
Then fine, come in, and we'll put you on a glide path to potentially being a billionaire or president.
那么好吧，进来吧，我们将帮助您走上成为亿万富翁或总统的潜在道路。
But say you're unremarkable, sorry, you're shit out of luck.
但如果说你不起眼的话，抱歉，你运气太差了。
Maybe you can build a data center somewhere and maybe get into the middle class.
也许你可以在某个地方建立一个数据中心，也许可以进入中产阶级。
And by the way, we don't even have an apprentice culture in this environment.
顺便说一句，我们在这种环境下甚至没有学徒文化。
So many parents feel so shamed when their kid doesn't get into elite university.
很多家长在孩子没能进入名牌大学时感到非常羞愧。
11% of LinkedIn profiles in Germany and the UK say apprentice.
德国和英国 11% 的 LinkedIn 个人资料显示“学徒”。
It's 3% here because parents feel shamed if their kid doesn't get into an elite university.
这里是 3%，因为如果孩子没有进入精英大学，家长会感到羞耻。
We need to dramatically expand vocational programming, freshman classes, and stop this insane transfer of wealth and health from young people to old people.
我们需要大幅扩大职业规划、新生课程，并阻止财富和健康从年轻人向老年人的疯狂转移。
And higher ed, unfortunately, our industry, is at the tip of the spear of fomenting this rejectionist bullshit culture where we've identified we're the arbiters of success.
不幸的是，我们的高等教育行业正处于煽动这种拒绝主义废话文化的尖端，我们认为自己是成功的仲裁者。
You know who gets into Stanford and NYU?
你知道谁能进入斯坦福大学和纽约大学吗？
Two cohorts, the children of rich people, you're 77 times more likely to get into an elite university if you're in the top 1% household, or the freakishly remarkable.
两组富人的孩子，如果你属于最优秀的 1% 家庭，或者是极其杰出的家庭，那么你进入精英大学的可能性要高出 77 倍。
And here's the thing, I can prove to us all mathematically that 99% of our children are not in the top 1%.
事情是这样的，我可以用数学方法向我们所有人证明，我们 99% 的孩子都不是前 1% 的人。
America loved the unremarkable when I was a kid.
当我还是个孩子的时候，美国就喜欢平淡无奇的东西。
It's fallen out of love with the unremarkable.
它已经不再喜欢那些不起眼的东西了。
Is America about identifying a super class to become billionaires, or is it about planting as many seeds as possible?
美国是要找出一个超级阶层成为亿万富翁，还是要播下尽可能多的种子？
Because no one can be the arbiter of greatness at 18.
因为没有人能在 18 岁时成为伟大的仲裁者。
No one was going to see me at 18 and go, "Someday you might have an impact, and you'll be wealthy." No one would've known that.
没有人会在我 18 岁的时候看到我说：“有一天你可能会产生影响，而且你会变得富有。”没有人会知道这一点。
And we've decided, no, we're about the children of rich people, and we're about the freakishly remarkable, and everybody else, in my opinion, hopefully gets to the middle class.
我们决定，不，我们是关于富人的孩子，我们是关于那些异常杰出的人，在我看来，其他人都希望进入中产阶级。
But if you don't, there's big tech waiting there to addict you.
但如果你不这样做，就有大科技等着你让你上瘾。
There's a tax policy that might impoverish you.
有一项税收政策可能会让你陷入贫困。
People say about young people they're entitled.
人们说年轻人有权利。
I think they're entitled to be enraged.
我认为他们有权利感到愤怒。
I can't imagine the rage they must feel right now.
我无法想象他们现在一定感到多么愤怒。
That they look up, they look sideways, and they see all this prosperity, and they look at my generation and see the benefits we've accrued, and we want to spend $2 trillion a year on their credit card?
他们向上看，向侧面看，他们看到了所有这些繁荣，他们看到了我们这一代，看到了我们所获得的利益，我们想每年在他们的信用卡上花费 2 万亿美元？
We spend $7 trillion a year.
我们每年花费 7 万亿美元。
We take in $5 trillion, and that incremental $2 trillion is all going to seniors.
我们吸收了 5 万亿美元，新增的 2 万亿美元将全部流向老年人。
I'm in the club doing rails of ketamine and champagne, and the closest a young person gets is they get to throw their credit card in, and I'll keep swiping it.
我在俱乐部里喝氯胺酮和香槟，年轻人最接近的就是把信用卡扔进去，我会继续刷卡。
It is literally morally corrupt what we are doing in terms of deficit spending and how we are prioritizing our budget.
我们在赤字支出和预算优先顺序方面所做的事情实际上是道德败坏的。
Our budget reflects our values, and our values are all fucked up and have said, "Let's party," right?
我们的预算反映了我们的价值观，而我们的价值观都搞砸了，还说“让我们聚会吧”，对吧？
The baby boomers.
婴儿潮一代。
"Let's party like there's no tomorrow, and the young people, well, they're going to have to clean up the house, and the garage is on fire, and the dogs are going to be pregnant, but that's their problem because I'll be dead by then." This generation, my generation, for some reason, does not feel the same obligation to pay it forward or back and create infrastructure and investments for young people.
“让我们像没有明天一样参加派对，年轻人，好吧，他们将不得不清理房子，车库着火了，狗将怀孕，但这是他们的问题，因为到那时我就死了。”出于某种原因，我们这一代人并不觉得有同样的义务向前或向后偿还以及为年轻人创建基础设施和投资。
And to me, it feels fairly obvious, and the solutions are fairly common sense.
对我来说，这感觉相当明显，而且解决方案也是相当常识性的。
But we'll have thoughtful conversations, and Social Security will be a third rail, and we'll have thoughtful reasons for why when I sell my business, the first $10 million should be tax-free.
但我们会进行深思熟虑的对话，社会保障将成为第三条轨道，我们会有深思熟虑的理由来解释为什么当我出售我的企业时，前 1000 万美元应该免税。
The last business I sold, first $10 million is tax-free.
我上次出售的生意中，前 1000 万美元是免税的。
What the actual fuck?
到底是什么鬼？
They say, "Well, Scott, entrepreneurs are more productive.
他们说：“斯科特，企业家的生产力更高。
We want to unleash our productivity, our most productive." I had no idea what tax-- People don't start businesses because of tax policy.
我们希望释放我们的生产力，我们最高效的生产力。”我不知道什么税收——人们不会因为税收政策而开办企业。
Did you know about 1202?
你知道1202吗？
If you sell this business, the first $10 million is tax-free if it's a C-corp.
如果您出售该企业，并且是 C 型企业，那么前 1000 万美元是免税的。
That's not why people start businesses.
这不是人们创业的原因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No.
不。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
But every day, there are new tax policies that do one thing, transfer money from those dudes to us.
但每天都有新的税收政策做一件事，就是把钱从那些人那里转移到我们身上。
More me than you because you're 10 years younger than me.
我比你多，因为你比我小10岁。
It needs to stop.
它需要停止。
There's basic tax policy, basic health and human services policy, right?
有基本的税收政策、基本的健康和公共服务政策，对吧？
Why on earth, you're a doctor, for God's sakes, we spend $13,000 per individual for more obesity, more anxiety, more depression than every other G6 nation.
到底为什么，你是一名医生，看在上帝的份上，我们每个人花费 13,000 美元来治疗比其他六国集团国家更多的肥胖、更多的焦虑和更多的抑郁症。
We should absolutely have nationalized socialized healthcare.
我们绝对应该将医疗保健国有化。
The bottom 99%, again, are just a fucking body bag of nutrition for the top 1%.
再说一次，底层 99% 的人只不过是顶层 1% 人的一个他妈的营养袋。
Monetizing healthcare, I'll put that to you.
将医疗保健货币化，我会把它告诉你。
I absolutely think we need single-payer socialized medicine right now.
我绝对认为我们现在需要单一付款人的社会化医疗。
I think it is indefensible, the healthcare in this country.
我认为这个国家的医疗保健是站不住脚的。
40%, I apologize, I'm going off-script here.
40%，我很抱歉，我在这里脱离了剧本。
40% of households, medical or dental debt.
40%的家庭有医疗或牙科债务。
You don't have kids.
你没有孩子。
Do you realize what kind of shame you would feel as a father if your 16-year-old girl gets a screaming toothache and you have to go into debt to get her a root canal, and that hangs over you for the next two or three years?
你是否意识到，如果你 16 岁的女儿牙疼得厉害，而你不得不负债累累才能给她做根管治疗，而这在接下来的两三年里一直困扰着你，你作为一个父亲会感到多么羞耻？
The third-
第三个——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I'm all for robbing it from Social Security because I like that idea.
好吧，我完全赞成从社会保障中剥夺它，因为我喜欢这个主意。
The moment you say nationalized healthcare, I think, "Oh, boy, here we go again." But I like the idea of robbing it from Social Security.
当你说医疗保健国有化时，我想，“哦，天哪，我们又来了。”但我喜欢从社会保障中剥夺它的想法。
I'm not talking about taking old people and turning them out to pasture and letting them wander the streets, mumbling to themselves.
我并不是说要把老人带到牧场去放牧，让他们在街上闲逛，自言自语。
I do think that taking care of the older generation is important, but I do think we are a very top-heavy culture, and maybe because I want to, I consider you Gen X as opposed to boomer.
我确实认为照顾老一代很重要，但我确实认为我们是一个非常头重脚轻的文化，也许是因为我想，我认为你们是 X 一代，而不是婴儿潮一代。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I appreciate that.
我很欣赏这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I really do, and actually, it raised a question for me.
我确实这样做，实际上，它向我提出了一个问题。
Feel free to say pass, you don't want to answer.
随意说通过，你不想回答。
But earlier, you said you're somewhat, I don't know, bashful, or you have this issue around your age.
但早些时候，你说你有点，我不知道，害羞，或者你在你的年龄有这个问题。
My friend Kelly Starrett, who's a PhD in physiology, amazing trainer and stuff, he said the best thing about turning 50 when I was turning 50, he's like, "You're going to be among the best in shape for your decade." And I think, look, you look great for a 40-year-old.
我的朋友凯利·斯塔雷特 (Kelly Starrett) 是一位生理学博士，也是一位出色的教练，他在我 50 岁的时候说过 50 岁最棒的一句话，他说，“你将成为这十年中体形最好的人之一。”我认为，看，对于 40 岁的人来说，你看起来很棒。
You're killing it.
你正在杀了它。
You're fit, all this stuff.
你很健康，所有这些东西。
But I wonder, is this kind of shame around it because your peer group kind of sucks in the way that you're describing, or is this actually about age?
但我想知道，这种耻辱是因为你的同龄人群体像你所描述的那样糟糕，还是这实际上与年龄有关？
Because to me, one of the most best things is to feel like your friends, your people, the people you associate with are awesome.
因为对我来说，最好的事情之一就是感觉你的朋友、你的人、与你交往的人都很棒。
And your generation, I think Gen X is an incredible generation.
而你们这一代，我认为 X 一代是令人难以置信的一代。
As this conversation continues, I'm thinking more and more about the responsibility and both the failures and the opportunities to remedy things for the next generation.
随着谈话的继续，我越来越多地思考责任、失败以及为下一代补救的机会。
That's how we started this conversation.
我们就是这样开始这次谈话的。
So two questions there.
那么有两个问题。
First of all, is that what that's about?
首先，是这样的吗？
Like your peers kind of suck and you don't want to be a part of it?
就像你的同龄人有点糟糕而你不想成为其中的一部分？
Because I consider you Gen X, and I'm not just trying to, what do the kids say, glaze you here.
因为我认为你们是 X 世代，我不只是想用孩子们怎么说来让你们感到困惑。
You're winning on every dimension, and you got two what sounds like healthy, productive boys.
你在各个方面都取得了胜利，而且你有两个听起来健康、高效的男孩。
You got it all, man.
你已经得到了一切，伙计。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I think a lot of it comes down to very just base things, and that is a fear of death.
我认为其中很多都归结为非常基本的事情，那就是对死亡的恐惧。
I'm afraid of getting old and being unhealthy.
我害怕变老和不健康。
I don't mind the death part.
我不介意死亡部分。
Also, just a fear of just wanting to feel young and vigorous and masculine and feel like that's slipping away from me.
另外，我只是担心自己想要感觉年轻、充满活力、有男子气概，但感觉这些正在从我身边溜走。
Biology's undefeated.
生物学是不败的。
So I think I'm a little bit youth obsessed and a little bit ageist.
所以我认为我有点痴迷青春，也有点年龄歧视。
So I think I have just a fear of aging.
所以我想我只是害怕衰老。
But just the call out about paying it forward and the call out to your...
但只是呼吁将其转发并呼吁您的......
I know a lot of young men and a lot of successful men listen to this podcast.
我认识很多年轻人和很多成功人士都听这个播客。
I think my generation on a lot of levels, we're talking about tax policy, but men aren't stepping up with respect to young men.
我认为我们这一代人在很多层面上都在谈论税收政策，但男性并没有对年轻人采取行动。
If you look at the single point of failure, if you were to reverse engineer when a boy comes off the tracks, it's when he loses a male role model through either death, divorce, or abandonment.
如果你看一下单点失败，如果你要对一个男孩偏离轨道时进行逆向工程，那就是当他因死亡、离婚或遗弃而失去男性榜样时。
When a boy loses a male role model, and 90% of the time, a single-parent home is headed by a woman, as mine was, at that moment, he becomes more likely to be incarcerated than graduate from college.
当一个男孩失去男性榜样时，90%的情况下，单亲家庭都是由女性领导的，就像我的那样，在那一刻，他更有可能被监禁而不是大学毕业。
And men aren't stepping up.
而男性并没有挺身而出。
There's three times as many women applying to be big sisters in New York as there are men applying to be big brothers.
在纽约，申请成为“大姐姐”的女性人数是申请成为“大哥哥”的男性人数的三倍。
And some of it is a taboo that men are concerned or self-conscious about expressing an interest to get involved in a boy's life because of sexual abuse from the Catholic Church and Michael Jackson and the rest, but there are a ton of men out there in their 30s, I think you have a bunch of them working with you, that may or may not have kids of their own.
由于天主教会和迈克尔杰克逊等人的性虐待，男性担心或自觉地表达参与男孩生活的兴趣是一种禁忌，但有很多30多岁的男性，我想你有很多人在和你一起工作，他们可能有也可能没有自己的孩子。
You don't have to be CEO of Goldman Sachs.
你不必成为高盛的首席执行官。
You don't have to have a degree in adolescent psychiatry.
您不必拥有青少年精神病学学位。
You just have to be a good man trying to live a virtuous life.
你只需要成为一个好人，努力过上有道德的生活。
And as someone who mentors young men, I can tell you it is so easy to add value.
作为一个指导年轻人的人，我可以告诉你，增加价值是很容易的。
Just showing an interest, answering basic questions.
只是表现出兴趣，回答基本问题。
This is a question I literally got now six weeks ago from a young man I'm mentoring.
这是我六周前从我所指导的一位年轻人那里真正提出的问题。
"I'm on this new diet.
“我正在采用这种新的饮食习惯。
I'm just drinking pineapple juice and creatine." Okay.
我只是喝菠萝汁和肌酸。”好的。
I don't have a medical degree, and I can tell you that's wrong.
我没有医学学位，我可以告诉你这是错误的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Another question I got eight weeks ago.
我八周前收到的另一个问题。
"I saw this amazing thing.
“我看到了这个惊人的事情。
I'm moving to Alaska, Scott." "What?
我要搬到阿拉斯加，斯科特。” “什么？
You're moving to Alaska?" "I saw this amazing thing on National Geographic.
你要搬到阿拉斯加吗？” “我在《国家地理》杂志上看到了这个令人惊奇的事情。
I've decided I want to move to Alaska." "You have a good job and your mom is sick, right?" "Yeah." "Why are you moving to Alaska?
我决定搬到阿拉斯加。” “你有一份好工作，但你妈妈生病了，对吗？” “是的。” “你为什么要搬到阿拉斯加？
You're going to quit your job and move to..." If you just ask basic questions, you add value to these young men's lives.
你将辞掉工作，搬到……”如果你只问基本问题，你就会为这些年轻人的生活增添价值。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Just real basic stuff.
只是真正的基本东西。
"Well, I'm feeling depressed." "Did you get outside?
“嗯，我心情郁闷。” “你出去了吗？
Are you working out?" There needs to be a societal zeitgeist that a moment a young man doesn't have men in his life, that the tribe moves in and injects young men into their life.
你在锻炼吗？”需要有一种社会时代精神，当一个年轻人的生活中没有男人的时候，部落就会进入并将年轻人注入他们的生活。
And the call out to men is, there's this great quote in one of the Paul West Anderson movies, "Magnolia," where the guy says, "I have love to give.
保罗·韦斯特·安德森 (Paul West Anderson) 的一部电影《木兰花》中有一句精彩的台词，其中对男人的呼唤是：“我有爱给予。
I just don't know where to give it.
我只是不知道该给哪里。
I just don't know where to put it." And such a wonderful statement.
我只是不知道该把它放在哪里。”这是一个如此精彩的声明。
I think there's so many men out there that have real...
我想世界上有很多男人都拥有真正的...
I think some of the most rewarding types of love is to give fraternal and paternal love.
我认为最有价值的爱就是给予兄弟情和父爱。
My purpose, my thing in life is to try and prepare my men for others, prepare my boys for others.
我的目标，我生命中的事情就是努力让我的男人为他人做好准备，让我的孩子们为他人做好准备。
That's my job.
这就是我的工作。
It gives me purpose.
它给了我目标。
I think there's so many men out there that could offer so much fraternal and paternal love to a young man or a boy, and they don't do it, either because they're too lazy or they're not stepping up, or they're worried that people will suspect them of something.
我认为有很多男人可以向一个年轻人或一个男孩提供如此多的兄弟情和父爱，但他们没有这样做，要么是因为他们太懒了，要么是他们没有站出来，或者是他们担心人们会怀疑他们的某些事情。
And there's so much need, and this is what you do.
有如此多的需要，这就是你所做的。
You find a single mother in your workplace and say, "Going to a game, does your son want to join me or join me and my boys?
你在工作场所找到一位单亲妈妈，她说：“去看一场比赛，你的儿子想和我一起看还是想和我和我的孩子们一起看？
Does your son want to hang out?" Washing your car, going to a game, whatever it is.
你儿子想出去玩吗？”洗车、看比赛，无论做什么。
In my opinion, that is the easiest solve that doesn't involve the government right now.
在我看来，这是目前不涉及政府的最简单的解决方案。
But the bottom line is, men of our age aren't stepping up, and I couch it in masculinity.
但底线是，我们这个年纪的男人并没有挺身而出，而我则以男子气概来表达。
You take care of yourself.
你照顾好自己。
That's the first circle.
这是第一个圆圈。
You affix your own oxygen mask.
您戴上自己的氧气面罩。
You can't take care of other people unless you're economically and emotionally somewhat viable.
除非你在经济上和情感上都有一定的生存能力，否则你无法照顾其他人。
You take care of your family, you take care of extended family, you take care of your community.
你照顾你的家人，你照顾大家庭，你照顾你的社区。
But the ultimate expression of masculinity is to get involved in the life of a child that isn't yours.
但男子气概的最终表现是参与一个不属于你的孩子的生活。
And not enough men are doing it.
但这样做的人还不够多。
Even really successful men, they're not stepping up.
即使是真正成功的男人，他们也不会挺身而出。
They're not helping young men.
他们没有帮助年轻人。
And the easiest thing to do, and it's so rewarding.
这是最容易做的事情，而且非常有益。
I can tell you, it makes me feel, and I don't do enough of it, but I do mentor young men.
我可以告诉你，这让我感觉到，虽然我做得还不够，但我确实指导年轻人。
It's just so easy to add value.
增值就是这么容易。
They make such stupid fucking decisions.
他们做出如此愚蠢的决定。
My job with my sons is to be their prefrontal cortex.
我对儿子们的工作就是成为他们的前额皮质。
"No, you have to wear shoes to school.
“不行，你必须穿鞋去学校。
I know this is right.
我知道这是对的。
Wear shoes to school." So anyways, the call out, if we want better men, we have to be better men.
穿鞋去学校。”所以无论如何，我们要大声疾呼，如果我们想要更好的男人，我们就必须成为更好的男人。
I don't think you can really hit the pinnacle of what it means to be successful in masculinity unless you're involved in the life of a child that isn't yours.
我认为除非你参与到一个不属于你的孩子的生活中，否则你无法真正达到成功男子气概的顶峰。
We have the most single-parent homes of any nation in the world.
我们拥有世界上单亲家庭最多的国家。
We used to be number two to Sweden.
我们曾经是瑞典的第二名。
We passed them two years ago.
两年前我们就通过了它们。
But that's what I would call, I constantly talk about government fixes because I'm a lefty.
但这就是我所说的，我经常谈论政府的修复措施，因为我是左撇子。
The easiest societal fix is quite frankly, is just male mentorship.
坦率地说，最简单的社会解决办法就是男性指导。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes, yes, and yes.
是的，是的，是的。
Totally agree.
完全同意。
I was very proactive in going out and seeking them.
我非常主动地出去寻找他们。
One feature of that, that I just wonder if we can kind of superimpose or superimpose some solutions on top of, would be a better way to put it is, for instance, I had no interest in playing football, but kept getting hurt skateboarding, so I learned how to weight lift and make my body stronger from the football coach, who was this amazing guy who wrote the original script for "Mr. Mom."
其中一个特点，我只是想知道我们是否可以叠加或叠加一些解决方案，这将是一个更好的表达方式，例如，我对踢足球没有兴趣，但玩滑板总是受伤，所以我从足球教练那里学会了如何举重并让我的身体变得更强，他是一个了不起的人，为“妈妈先生”写了原始剧本。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He wrote a play, "Wait Till Your Mother Gets Home" that became "Mr. Mom." He's like big buff guy's wife-
他写了一部戏剧《等到你妈妈回家》，后来成为《妈妈先生》。他就像一个大胖子的妻子——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Michael Keaton, Teri Garr
迈克尔·基顿，特瑞·加尔
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Teri, right.
泰瑞，对吧。
That's right.
这是正确的。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So people say he didn't write that, but This guy, Bob Peters, was a physical specimen, and he also played the piano, and he raised these kids, and his wife dared him.
所以人们说这不是他写的，但是鲍勃·彼得斯这个人是一个身体标本，他还会弹钢琴，他抚养了这些孩子，他的妻子向他挑战。
She said in the early '70s, she said, "You couldn't do what I do." And so that was how the whole thing came to, he realized, "You're right.
她在 70 年代初说过，“你做不到我做的事。”整件事就是这样发生的，他意识到，“你是对的。
It's really, really tough." So, I went to him for working out advice, but not for other sources of advice.
这真的非常非常困难。”所以，我去找他寻求建议，但没有寻求其他来源的建议。
I went to different men for different sources of mentorship.
我向不同的人寻求不同的指导来源。
It'll become clear what I'm saying here in a moment.
一会儿我在这里所说的就会变得清楚。
My academic advisor, my PhD advisor, was an incredible woman, so I was mentored by women, too, but that's characteristic of academia.
我的学术导师，我的博士导师，是一位令人难以置信的女性，所以我也受到女性的指导，但这是学术界的特征。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Was your father very involved in your life?
你的父亲对你的生活影响很大吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He was.
他是。
My parents split up in adolescence, and so we had our challenges over the years.
我的父母在青少年时期就分手了，所以多年来我们都面临着挑战。
Over time, my dad, being a scientist, first-generation immigrant, he-
随着时间的推移，我的父亲，作为一名科学家，第一代移民，他——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
How old were you when your parents split up?
你父母离婚时你几岁？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
14.
14.
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
And did other men kind of move in, or was your father still very involved?
其他男人是否也搬进来了，还是你父亲仍然积极参与其中？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I sought out other mentors at that point.
那时我寻找了其他导师。
I resented science.
我讨厌科学。
I resented what he was a part of.
我对他所参与的事情感到不满。
We eventually made amends.
我们最终做出了弥补。
He's actually been a guest on the podcast.
他实际上是播客的嘉宾。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Hm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He's a physicist.
他是一位物理学家。
Really helped me understand his trajectory, and we've worked out our stuff.
确实帮助我了解了他的轨迹，我们已经解决了我们的问题。
But at that time, it was skateboarding, it was lifting weights, it was, I want to become a firefighter.
但那时候，是滑板，是举重，是，我想成为一名消防员。
I actually took fire science courses and did that, and then eventually tripped and fell into science and menteed myself to a wonderful professor at Santa Barbara, and then the story unfolds.
事实上，我参加了消防科学课程并做到了这一点，然后最终绊倒并陷入了科学，并向圣巴巴拉的一位出色的教授推荐了自己，然后故事就展开了。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You know?
你知道吗？
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
And you're going to gag on this, but you're exceptional.
你可能会对此感到窒息，但你很出色。
Most 14-year-olds aren't exceptional and go out and find mentors.
大多数 14 岁的孩子并不例外，他们都会出去寻找导师。
Mentors have to find them, because most 14-year-olds don't even know they need mentors.
导师必须找到他们，因为大多数 14 岁的孩子甚至不知道他们需要导师。
They don't even know the concept.
他们甚至不知道这个概念。
And my mom was smart enough to get men involved in my life really quickly, and it was everything for me.
我妈妈很聪明，能够很快让男人介入我的生活，这对我来说就是一切。
Everything.
一切。
My mom's boyfriend gave me 200 bucks, and I started asking about stocks, and he said, "If you haven't spent this or bought stocks by the time I'm here next weekend, I'm taking it back." So I went to Westwood and Wilshire Boulevard and walked into Dean Witter, and this guy with a big Jewfro came walking out, Sy Sero, and said, "Hi, I'm Sy Sero." And every day I would call, I didn't have a lot of friends at 13, him from the Emerson Junior High payphone, 20 cents, and he'd give me lessons on the market.
我妈妈的男朋友给了我 200 美元，我开始询问股票的情况，他说：“如果到下周末我来的时候你还没有花这笔钱或买股票，我就把钱收回来。”于是我去了 Westwood 和 Wilshire Boulevard，走进 Dean Witter，一个拿着大犹太人的家伙 Sy Sero 走了出来，说：“嗨，我是 Sy Sero。”我每天都会打电话，13 岁的时候我没有很多朋友，他是艾默生初中公用电话的，20 美分，他会给我上市场方面的课程。
I bought-
我买了-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amazing
太棒了
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
...
...
12 shares of Columbia Pictures, and he'd be like, "Close Encounters of the Third Kind is a hit.
12股哥伦比亚影业公司的股票，他会说，“《第三类接触》很受欢迎。
That's why the stock is up.
这就是股票上涨的原因。
Casey's Shadow is a bomb.
凯西的影子是一颗炸弹。
When there's more buyers for the stock and fewer sellers, the stock goes up." And he taught me about markets.
当股票的买家增多而卖家减少时，股价就会上涨。”他教我有关市场的知识。
I've been investing in stocks since I was 13.
我从 13 岁起就开始投资股票。
I've made a lot of money selling my companies.
我通过出售我的公司赚了很多钱。
I've made a shit ton of money investing in stocks.
我投资股票赚了很多钱。
And just this guy, and by the way, he came to one of my live podcasts about two years ago.
顺便说一下，就是这个人，大约两年前他来到了我的一个现场播客。
He's now 82.
他现在82岁了。
Just this guy's interest in me, it just meant the world.
只是这个家伙对我的兴趣，就意味着整个世界。
And also, and this is a weird story, but he recently just passed away.
而且，这是一个奇怪的故事，但他最近刚刚去世。
You know how in media there's that second family people talk about, the dude who has a family and you find out he has a second family?
你知道媒体上人们谈论的第二个家庭吗？一个有家庭的家伙，你发现他有第二个家庭？
My mom and I were the second family.
我和妈妈是第二个家庭。
My mom's boyfriend and my male role model had a family.
我妈妈的男朋友和我的男性榜样有一个家庭。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Unbeknownst to her.
她不知道。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
No, unbeknownst to her.
不，她不知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
But we didn't have any money, and I'm not going to judge my mom, and I'm not going to judge him, and he was actually a really good man to me.
但我们没有钱，我不会评判我妈妈，我也不会评判他，他对我来说实际上是一个非常好的人。
He was really a good mentor, but he was only around every other weekend.
他确实是一位很好的导师，但他只是每隔一个周末才来一次。
But my athletic coaches took a really nice, active role in my life.
但我的体育教练在我的生活中发挥了非常积极、积极的作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
And when I think about what it would've been like, because the reality is, you have this healthy instinct as a boy to start rejecting your parents at a certain age.
当我想到那会是什么样子时，因为现实是，作为一个男孩，你有这种健康的本能，在某个年龄开始拒绝你的父母。
And not only that, I see it with my boys.
不仅如此，我在我的孩子们身上也看到了这一点。
Their mom's voice literally becomes white noise to them.
他们妈妈的声音对他们来说简直就是白噪音。
They stop hearing it, and they take her seriously, or literally, but not seriously.
他们不再听到她的声音，他们认真地对待她，或者说字面意义上的，但并不认真。
But even just saying that boys needed men five years ago, this dialogue has come so far, was triggering to some people.
但即使五年前只是说男孩需要男人，这种对话到目前为止已经引起了一些人的注意。
What, women can't raise good men?
什么，女人养不出好男人？
No, my mom raised me, light of my life.
不，我妈妈养育了我，她是我生命的光辉。
But if I had not had a bunch of men who just naturally stepped in...
但如果我没有一群人自然地介入......
There was a guy across the hall who noticed that it was just me and my mom.
大厅对面有一个人注意到只有我和我妈妈。
He would come over with his girlfriend to me every other week and say, "Do you want to come horseback riding with us?" Right?
他每隔一周就会和他的女朋友过来找我说：“你想和我们一起去骑马吗？”正确的？
Because he knew I was being raised by my mom.
因为他知道我是妈妈带大的。
It was a natural instinct for him to come over-
对他来说，克服困难是一种本能——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
...
...
and take me out.
带我出去。
And I worry that we've lost that, that we don't have enough male mentors.
我担心我们已经失去了这一点，我们没有足够的男性导师。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
We're going to have to do 10 podcasts.
我们需要制作 10 个播客。
I've got so many more questions, and I didn't get to a lot of things.
我还有很多问题，但很多事情我都没有得到解答。
Scott, I have to say, it's been amazing to get to just sit with you-
斯科特，我不得不说，能和你坐在一起真是太棒了——
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Thanks, brother
谢谢，兄弟
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and learn from you.
并向你学习。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm delighted that we had this conversation.
我很高兴我们进行了这次谈话。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I appreciate that.
我很欣赏这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the fact that we had it, I don't know how polarized people view us as, but that alone was important to me.
事实上，我们拥有它，我不知道人们如何看待我们，但这对我来说很重要。
But I'm going to think a lot about many of the things you've said.
但我会认真思考你所说的许多事情。
You've talked about having a code, the notion of really being a provider and a protector, building a financial foundation for oneself, putting service over attention to self, and just so many things of value.
您谈到了制定准则、真正成为提供者和保护者的概念、为自己建立财务基础、将服务置于对自我的关注之上，以及许多有价值的东西。
This is one that I know many people are going to come back to over and over again.
我知道很多人都会一遍又一遍地回顾这一点。
And I'm just grateful for you doing what you do.
我很感激你所做的事情。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You defy all the stereotypes of the groups that people assign you to, which, those are my favorite kind of people.
你打破了人们对你所属群体的所有刻板印象，这些是我最喜欢的人。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
I appreciate that.
我很欣赏这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And again, you're killing it on the health front.
再说一次，你在健康方面正在扼杀它。
Whatever you're doing, man.
不管你在做什么，伙计。
It's probably your boys.
可能是你的孩子们。
They're probably like, "This is what it's like to have vigor," and you're like
他们可能会说，“这就是充满活力的感觉”，而你就像
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Well, tonight I'll go through everything I do, and I want you to edit it, but just in the mutual fan club here, one of the things I don't like about podcasting is it's emblematic of American politics, and that is, the more outrageous you are-
好吧，今晚我会回顾一下我所做的一切，我希望你能编辑它，但就在这里的共同粉丝俱乐部来说，我不喜欢播客的一件事是它是美国政治的象征，也就是说，你越是离谱——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
...
...
the more ratings you get.
您获得的评分越多。
So the podcasting algorithms encourage people to say outrageous things, and sometimes they're not very informed.
因此，播客算法鼓励人们说出离谱的话，而有时他们并不了解情况。
And I'm guilty of this sometimes.
有时我对此感到内疚。
I've fallen to this Dunning-Kruger, where I think I know something about something because I know a decent amount about marketing or business.
我陷入了邓宁-克鲁格的困境，我认为我对某事有所了解，因为我对营销或商业了解相当多。
And I think in our leaders, we need to make intelligence and honesty and science cool again, and you're doing that.
我认为在我们的领导人中，我们需要让智慧、诚实和科学再次变得酷炫，而你们正在这样做。
And I worry sometimes a lot of our most senior elected officials on the health side are now making intelligence or science cool again.
我担心有时我们在健康方面的许多最高级民选官员现在正在让情报或科学再次变得酷炫。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have friends there, and I'll just tell like they're not biologists.
我在那里有朋友，我会像他们不是生物学家一样讲述。
They need to talk to the biologists.
他们需要与生物学家交谈。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Well, that's my point.
嗯，这就是我的观点。
You have real domain expertise.
您拥有真正的领域专业知识。
I think you are making science and intelligence cool again, and I think the nation is in desperate need of that.
我认为你们正在让科学和情报再次变得酷炫，我认为这个国家迫切需要它。
That certification, domain expertise, being measured about your comments, citing data, putting out disclosures, telling me, "No, Scott, you don't understand dopa.
这种认证、领域专业知识、对你的评论进行衡量、引用数据、披露信息，告诉我，“不，斯科特，你不了解多巴。
This is what actually is going on." I think that's important.
这就是实际发生的情况。”我认为这很重要。
And so I think you're a really positive influence for young people who are getting seduced by the algorithms, and there's got to be people like you out there that young men aspire to be more like that say, "No, training, domain expertise, being measured, and science matter." You're making that cool again.
所以我认为你对那些被算法所吸引的年轻人来说是一个非常积极的影响，而且一定有像你这样的人，年轻人渴望成为这样的人，“不，培训、领域专业知识、被衡量和科学很重要。”你又让这件事变得很酷了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, thank you.
嗯，谢谢。
Well, it's a labor of love and a bit of a compulsion, so I plan to continue, but I'm excited for whatever comes next, and especially in these very tense political years.
嗯，这是一种爱的劳动，也有一点强迫，所以我计划继续下去，但我对接下来发生的一切感到兴奋，尤其是在这些非常紧张的政治年份。
You're a brave one.
你是一个勇敢的人。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Go on.
继续吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You got balls and brains, man.
你有胆量有头脑，伙计。
That's how I'll wrap this one.
这就是我将如何包装这个。
You got balls and brains.
你有胆量和大脑。
I've been thinking the whole time, and you're willing to take risks and make mistakes, and clearly, you're making more better decisions than less good ones on average compared to your peer group and then some.
我一直在思考，你愿意承担风险和犯错误，而且显然，与你的同龄人相比，你平均做出的更好的决定多于做出的不好的决定。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Hope so.
希望如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Come back again.
再回来吧。
Appreciate it.
欣赏它。
Scott Galloway:
斯科特·加洛韦：
Thanks again, Andrew.
再次感谢，安德鲁。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Scott Galloway.
感谢您参加今天与斯科特·加洛韦的讨论。
To find links to his new book and to find links to his various podcasts and other resources, please see the show note captions.
要查找他的新书的链接以及他的各种播客和其他资源的链接，请参阅节目注释标题。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请通过单击 Spotify 和 Apple 上的关注按钮来关注播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review, and you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您可以给我们留下五星级的评论，现在您可以在 Spotify 和 Apple 上给我们留下评论。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客或嘉宾有意见，或者您希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑的主题，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience, and it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这是我花了五年多时间编写的一本书，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验，涵盖了从睡眠到运动到压力控制的各个方面的方案，以及与注意力和动机相关的方案，当然，我还为所包含的方案提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." And if you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 hubermanlab。
So that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客上的信息不同。
Again, it's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
再说一遍，所有社交媒体平台上都是 hubermanlab。
And if you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as what we call protocols in the form of one- to three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep, how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及我们所说的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议，涵盖从如何优化睡眠、如何优化多巴胺、故意冷暴露等所有内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training.
我们有一个基本的健身方案，涵盖心血管训练和阻力训练。
All of that is available completely zero cost.
所有这些都是完全零成本可用的。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the Menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to Newsletter, and enter your email.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的“菜单”选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯，然后输入您的电子邮件即可。
And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Scott Galloway.
再次感谢您参加今天与斯科特·加洛韦的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。
Speaker 4:
演讲者4：
Booking.com is the easiest way from a day surrounded by noise to a stay surrounded by nature.
Booking.com 是让您远离喧嚣的一天，享受大自然环绕的住宿的最简单方式。
That's nice.
那很好。
Go on, book it.
来吧，预订吧。
It's easy.
这很容易。
Booking.com.
预订网站。
Booking dot yeah.
预订点是的。