How to Make Yourself Unbreakable | DJ Shipley
DJ Shipley: I had a lot of emotional stuff happen to me in that second deployment.
DJ Shipley：在第二次部署中，我发生了很多情绪化的事情。
You know, my idol, Matty Roberts, I've talked about him a couple of times.
你知道，我的偶像马蒂·罗伯茨，我已经谈论过他好几次了。
I really, really hung onto that dude.
我真的真的很迷恋那个家伙。
He was my true north.
他是我真正的北方。
He was the guy.
他就是那个人。
And when he got shot up...
而当他被击中时...
When you see it happen...
当你看到它发生时...
You know, but I think that was the closest call for a fire mission the entire Iraq War.
你知道，但我认为这是整个伊拉克战争中最接近的一次火力任务。
Like, inside of 15 meters.
比如，15米以内。
DJ Shipley: I mean, Corey Mike, Mike from the AC-130 gunship, it was on top of you.
DJ Shipley：我的意思是，科里·迈克，来自 AC-130 武装直升机的迈克，它就在你上面。
A belt-fed machine gun just chewing us up.
一挺弹链供弹机枪正在吞噬我们。
Everybody shot up except for me and one other guy, and we're all crowded behind this tractor tire.
除了我和另一个人之外，每个人都跳了起来，我们都挤在拖拉机轮胎后面。
Just...
只是...
you felt like a victim.
你感觉自己像个受害者。
Like, I felt helpless.
就像，我感到无助。
I'm getting rounds poured all over me, and at a certain point, you just go, 'I'd rather run back into the front of this thing and get killed with all of them than be the lone survivor.'
我身上到处都是子弹，到了某个时刻，你就会说，“我宁愿跑回这东西前面，和所有人一起被杀，也不愿成为唯一的幸存者。”
Andrew Huberman: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
Andrew Huberman：欢迎来到 Huberman 实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is DJ Shipley.
今天我的嘉宾是 DJ Shipley。
DJ Shipley is a retired Navy SEAL who served for 17 years, much of that time as a Tier 1 operator, meaning part of an elite, highly selective special operations unit within the SEALS.
DJ 希普利 (DJ Shipley) 是一名退役海豹突击队队员，服役 17 年，其中大部分时间担任一级特勤人员，这意味着海豹突击队内精锐、精挑细选的特种作战部队的一部分。
Andrew Huberman: In recent years, DJ has emerged as a top public educator on the topics of how to structure your days to maximize your mindset for the sake of physical and mental health, as well as performance in work or school, and to best support and build your closest relationships.
Andrew Huberman：近年来，DJ 已成为顶级公共教育家，其主题是如何安排您的一天，最大限度地发挥您的心态，以实现身心健康、工作或学校表现，以及如何最好地支持和建立您最亲密的关系。
As you'll soon learn from DJ, there are key points in your day when you can take specific physical steps, including but not limited to physical exercise, to shift your mind away from rumination, distraction, and frustration to a state of immense clarity, focus, and drive.
正如您很快就会从 DJ 学到的那样，在一天中的某些关键时刻，您可以采取特定的身体步骤（包括但不限于体育锻炼），将您的思绪从沉思、分心和沮丧中转移到极其清晰、专注和动力的状态。
Andrew Huberman: Through trial and error, DJ has figured out, and he shares with us, how that process is done and how you can do it too, right down to the details.
Andrew Huberman：通过反复试验，DJ 已经弄清楚了，他与我们分享了这个过程是如何完成的，以及你也可以如何做到这一点，直到细节。
What he describes goes way beyond a standard morning routine or evening routine, and most importantly, is accessible to all of us.
他所描述的内容远远超出了标准的早晨例行公事或晚上例行公事，最重要的是，我们所有人都可以理解。
You also won't hear any cliches or fluff in today's discussion.
在今天的讨论中您也不会听到任何陈词滥调或废话。
DJ is very specific about what to do and when, and how in order to become the best possible version of yourself.
DJ 对于做什么、何时做以及如何做非常明确，以便成为最好的自己。
Andrew Huberman: You'll often hear those words out there, how to become the best version of yourself or reach your potential, but what DJ does so beautifully is he explains exactly how to do that.
Andrew Huberman：你经常会听到这样的话，如何成为最好的自己或发挥自己的潜力，但 DJ 做得如此美妙的是他准确地解释了如何做到这一点。
And he shares his story of how he joined and moved through the SEAL teams and the victories, but of course, also the immense challenges and losses that he and his teammates experienced.
他分享了他如何加入海豹突击队并在海豹突击队中度过的故事以及所取得的胜利，当然也包括他和他的队友所经历的巨大挑战和损失。
We also discuss addiction, PTSD, and depression, and new paths for overcoming those.
我们还讨论了成瘾、创伤后应激障碍和抑郁症，以及克服这些问题的新途径。
Andrew Huberman: In particular, a new medical treatment, ibogaine, followed by DMT, and how that's being used to help veterans overcome addiction, PTSD, and suicidality.
Andrew Huberman：特别是一种新的治疗方法，伊博加因，随后是 DMT，以及如何使用它来帮助退伍军人克服成瘾、创伤后应激障碍和自杀倾向。
I've paid close attention to that work over the last five years because the brain imaging aspect is being done by my colleague, Dr. Nolan Williams, at Stanford.
过去五年我一直密切关注这项工作，因为大脑成像方面是由我在斯坦福大学的同事诺兰·威廉姆斯博士完成的。
I should mention that the ibogaine/DMT process we discuss is not a recreational one.
我应该指出，我们讨论的伊博加因/DMT 过程并不是娱乐性的。
Rather, it's being done as part of clinical trials and dedicated research studies.
相反，它是作为临床试验和专门研究的一部分进行的。
Andrew Huberman: DJ explains that process firsthand, and at the same time, I should mention that ibogaine and DMT are still illegal in the United States.
Andrew Huberman：DJ 亲自解释了这个过程，同时我应该提到伊博加因和 DMT 在美国仍然是非法的。
They are not FDA-approved, so no one should explore their use outside of these clinical trials.
它们未经 FDA 批准，因此任何人都不应在这些临床试验之外探索它们的用途。
However, the FDA is looking seriously at these compounds, and approval for them seems quite likely in the next 12 months or so.
然而，FDA 正在认真研究这些化合物，并且很可能在未来 12 个月左右的时间内批准它们。
Today's discussion is one that anybody, male, female, young, or old, can benefit from.
今天的讨论适合任何人，无论男性、女性、年轻人还是老年人，都可以从中受益。
Andrew Huberman: DJ has immense knowledge, he has immense experience, and he has an incredible ability to take what he's learned and turn it into actionable steps so you can improve your mental health, physical health, and performance, and become the best possible version of yourself.
Andrew Huberman：DJ 拥有丰富的知识，他有丰富的经验，他有令人难以置信的能力，将他所学到的知识转化为可行的步骤，这样你就可以改善你的心理健康、身体健康和表现，并成为最好的自己。
Andrew Huberman: Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
Andrew Huberman：在我们开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。
Andrew Huberman: In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors.
Andrew Huberman：为了与这个主题保持一致，今天的节目确实有赞助商。
And now for my discussion with DJ Shipley.
现在是我与 DJ Shipley 的讨论。
Andrew Huberman: DJ Shipley, welcome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：DJ Shipley，欢迎。
DJ Shipley: Thank you so much for having me, man.
DJ Shipley：非常感谢你邀请我，伙计。
Andrew Huberman: Let's talk about mental health, physical health, and spiritual health, but not all at once.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我们来谈谈心理健康、身体健康和精神健康，但不要同时讨论。
You talk a lot about and you post a lot about mental health, but I've noticed that a lot of that takes on a sort of a protocolly approach where you use physical steps to approach mental health and vice versa.
你谈论了很多关于心理健康的内容，也发布了很多关于心理健康的内容，但我注意到其中很多都采取了一种协议方法，即你使用身体步骤来接近心理健康，反之亦然。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So, what's your framework on this thing that we call mental health?
安德鲁·休伯曼：那么，您对我们所说的心理健康问题的框架是什么？
I'm not asking you to solve the mental health crisis in one swoop, but when you think about your own mental health, the people close to you, people you've worked with in the teams, you know, how do you approach mental health as a concept and as an actionable thing?
我并不是要求你一下子解决心理健康危机，但是当你思考你自己的心理健康、你身边的人、你在团队中共事过的人时，你知道，你如何将心理健康作为一个概念和一个可行的事情来对待？
DJ Shipley: I've lived so many different stages in my life.
DJ Shipley：我的人生经历了很多不同的阶段。
High points and low points, and everything in between.
高点和低点，以及介于两者之间的一切。
And at my lowest point, I had no physical connection.
在我最低谷的时候，我没有任何身体上的联系。
I was either down hard with an injury, coming back from surgery, and then my mental health rapidly declined right after that.
我要么因受伤而心情沉重，要么从手术中恢复，然后我的心理健康状况在那之后迅速下降。
And for someone who never suffered from mental health issues, it's shocking, and you feel like you're the only person going through it, especially when you come from a subculture of special operations.
对于从未遭受过心理健康问题的人来说，这是令人震惊的，你会觉得自己是唯一经历过这种情况的人，尤其是当你来自特种部队的亚文化时。
Nobody ever talks about it.
从来没有人谈论过它。
DJ Shipley: So when you find yourself in that dark room alone, really contemplating some terrible things, it's hard to wrap your head around because you're the only person that's ever gone through it.
DJ Shipley：所以，当你发现自己独自在那个黑暗的房间里，真正思考一些可怕的事情时，你很难集中注意力，因为你是唯一经历过这些的人。
And, you know, I had some really good strength coaches and coming back from injuries, and the better I got physically, my mental health naturally just started to pull out of it, but everything we did was for the group.
而且，你知道，我有一些非常好的力量教练，从伤病中恢复过来，我的身体状况越好，我的心理健康自然就开始摆脱困境，但我们所做的一切都是为了团队。
So, all my physical attributes, everything I'm training, is for the betterment of the group.
所以，我所有的身体素质，我正在训练的一切，都是为了球队的进步。
DJ Shipley: Now it's the betterment of my family, of my tribe, of whatever I have, but, you know, I talk about this thing, stacking up micro wins.
DJ Shipley：现在是我的家庭、我的部落、我所拥有的一切的改善，但是，你知道，我谈论这件事，积累微胜利。
My morning routine is structured in a way to where I can do that same routine everywhere I go, everywhere.
我早上的例行公事是这样安排的，无论我走到哪里，无论在哪里，我都可以做同样的例行公事。
At any point of the day, I can lock that thing in, but it all starts with an evening routine.
在一天中的任何时候，我都可以锁定那件事，但这一切都从晚上的例行公事开始。
So when my phone goes off at 5:00 AM, and I spring feet out of bed, I know exactly what I'm going to do for the next 12 minutes to put myself in a position to not be stressed.
因此，当我的手机在凌晨 5:00 响起时，我从床上跳起来，我清楚地知道在接下来的 12 分钟内我要做什么，以使自己处于一个没有压力的位置。
DJ Shipley: I have to power down my home life and I've just have to think about what's coming next.
DJ Shipley：我必须停止我的家庭生活，我只需要考虑接下来会发生什么。
So laying out the clothes the night before, my bottle of water is filled, my pills are out, my toothbrush is out, everything is set so as soon as I get up...
于是前一天晚上把衣服铺好，水瓶装满，药丸拿出来，牙刷拿出来，一切都准备好了，所以我一起床……
By the time I get to making my morning cup of coffee, I've done 25 things inside of my control.
当我早上开始煮咖啡时，我已经做了 25 件我能控制的事情。
Andrew Huberman: Do you know off the top of your head what those things are right now that maybe you could just list them off?
Andrew Huberman：你现在是否清楚地知道这些东西是什么，也许你可以将它们列出来？
You said your alarm clock goes off at 5:00 AM.
你说你的闹钟在凌晨 5:00 响。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And that's regardless of when you went to sleep?
Andrew Huberman：这与你什么时候睡觉无关？
DJ Shipley: Regardless of when I went to sleep, typically.
DJ Shipley：通常不管我什么时候睡觉。
I mean, if I'm out here, I'm on a different time zone, and I can change it, but for the most part-
我的意思是，如果我在这里，我在不同的时区，我可以改变它，但在大多数情况下-
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Sure.
安德鲁·休伯曼：当然。
Andrew Huberman: But if you get to bed at midnight or you get to bed at 9:00 PM or you get to bed at 2:00 AM, alarm goes off at 5:00 AM, you're up?
Andrew Huberman：但是，如果您在午夜上床睡觉，或者您在晚上 9:00 上床睡觉，或者您在凌晨 2:00 上床睡觉，闹钟在凌晨 5:00 响起，您就起床了吗？
DJ Shipley: And my wife gave me this the other day.
DJ Shipley：前几天我妻子给了我这个。
I came home on a red-eye.
我红眼回家了。
I didn't walk through the door until 2:30 in the morning.
直到凌晨2点30分我才走进门。
And the alarm clock goes off at 5:00, and she rolls over and she's like, "What are you doing?" "I'm going to work." And she's like, "You can take a day off." I'm like, "No, I'm not taking a day off." These last five days are the first time in as long as I can, in 20 years, that I've actually taken five days of not working out when I have the physical ability to do it.
闹钟在 5:00 响了，她翻了个身，问道：“你在做什么？” “我要去工作了。”她说：“你可以休息一天。”我说：“不，我不会休息一天。”过去的五天是我 20 年来第一次在身体有能力的情况下连续五天不锻炼。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I've never taken five days off, because I'm so afraid my mental health will drop.
DJ Shipley：我从来没有休息过五天，因为我很害怕我的心理健康状况会下降。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Something will happen if I leave that routine.
DJ Shipley：如果我放弃这种习惯，就会发生一些事情。
So I wake up, unplug my phone, shut off the alarm.
所以我醒来，拔掉手机插头，关掉闹钟。
I walk in, toothpaste on the toothbrush.
我走进去，牙刷上沾着牙膏。
I go to the bathroom.
我去洗手间。
While I'm brushing my teeth, spit it out, all the pills I have to take in the morning, you know, vitamin D, all the stuff I take, and then I get dressed.
当我刷牙的时候，把早上吃的所有药吐出来，你知道的，维生素D，我吃的所有东西，然后我穿好衣服。
Left sock, right sock, right shoe.
左袜子，右袜子，右鞋子。
Everything I do, I do it in a very specific order.
我所做的每一件事，都是按照非常特定的顺序进行的。
Even the way I put on my bracelets.
甚至我戴手镯的方式。
If I put them on in the wrong order, I'll stop and I'll de-jock them all and I'll re-don them just because that's one simple thing.
如果我以错误的顺序穿上它们，我会停下来，让它们全部放松，然后重新穿上它们，因为这是一件简单的事情。
I'm not rushed.
我不着急。
DJ Shipley: I'm not under duress.
DJ Shipley：我没有受到胁迫。
I'm in control this entire timeline, and that way, when I get to the kitchen, I don't feel like I'm frantic, 'Where are my keys?
我掌控着整个时间线，这样，当我到达厨房时，我就不会感到疯狂，‘我的钥匙在哪里？
Where's my wallet?
我的钱包在哪里？
Where's my bag?' Everything's in a system right now to where I can step in that car, I'm not stuck behind a school bus, my car has gas in it, my phone's at 100%.
我的包在哪里？现在一切都在一个系统中，我可以走进那辆车，我不会被困在校车后面，我的车里有汽油，我的手机电量为 100%。
DJ Shipley: Because we've all been there.
DJ Shipley：因为我们都经历过。
Everybody's a normal person.
每个人都是一个正常人。
I wake up.
我醒了。
My wife wants to have a 15-minute conversation.
我妻子想要进行 15 分钟的谈话。
That puts me behind that school bus that I'm typically not behind.
这让我落后于我通常不会落后的校车。
Now I'm late for my first meeting.
现在我第一次开会就迟到了。
I have to rush through my workout.
我必须赶紧完成我的锻炼。
I don't have time to take a shower.
我没有时间洗澡。
DJ Shipley: All that is going to cascade, and it's going to put me to be the person I don't want to be when I have to walk into that first meeting.
DJ Shipley：所有这些都会连锁反应，当我必须走进第一次会议时，这会让我成为我不想成为的人。
It's like, I'm trying to optimize everything that's within my control, so when I step through the threshold, this is the DJ that I'm purposely presenting to you right now, under my control.
就像，我正在尝试优化我控制范围内的一切，所以当我跨过门槛时，这就是我现在特意向您展示的 DJ，在我的控制之下。
And that really sets the entire framework for the whole day of being in a good headspace.
这确实为一整天处于良好的头脑空间奠定了整个框架。
I'm controlling the things that are controllable and the things that I can't control, I don't think about them anymore.
能控制的事情我控制，不能控制的事情我不再去想。
I block them out.
我把他们挡在外面。
Andrew Huberman: I love the regimen and your adherence to it.
Andrew Huberman：我喜欢这个养生法以及你对它的坚持。
I'm curious about your mindset when the alarm goes off.
我很好奇闹钟响起时你的心态。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Meaning, where is your head?
Andrew Huberman：意思是，你的头在哪里？
I guess, I know you're human and I understand enough about the brain to make an assumption, which is that you don't wake up every morning with the alarm going off at 5:00 thinking, 'Great.
我想，我知道你是人类，而且我对大脑有足够的了解，可以做出一个假设，那就是你不会每天早上 5:00 闹钟响起时就想：“太好了。”
I'm going to get up and just roll right into the day,' that there may be times when you consider going into fetal position.
我要站起来，直接滚到这一天，”有时您可能会考虑采取胎儿姿势。
You know, it's warm under those covers.
你知道，被子下面很温暖。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But also that your mind, like anyone else's, probably starts spinning.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但你的思维也可能像其他人一样开始旋转。
It leaps to the past, leaps to the...
它跳跃到过去，跳跃到……
You know, a little more stress than you'd like, a little more lethargy, this kind of thing.
你知道，压力比你想要的要大一点，更加昏昏欲睡，诸如此类的事情。
Do you purposely stack up to-dos so that you stay out of all of that?
你是否故意堆积待办事项，以免自己插手所有事情？
And if some of that persists as you're brushing your teeth, what's the way of dealing with that?
如果您在刷牙时仍然存在某些问题，该如何处理？
DJ Shipley: I just keep pushing.
DJ Shipley：我只是不断推动。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I just keep myself in motion the entire time, and I talk about dials, not switches, a lot with people.
DJ Shipley：我一直让自己保持运动状态，我经常与人谈论旋钮，而不是开关。
And it sounds selfish, but I have to be selfish right now in order to be selfless later.
这听起来很自私，但我必须现在自私，以便以后变得无私。
DJ Shipley: So I tell guys, you know, "As soon as that alarm clock goes off, I'm not thinking about my wife, I'm not thinking about my kids.
DJ Shipley：所以我告诉大家，你知道，“闹钟一响，我就不会想到我的妻子，我不会想到我的孩子。
I'm thinking about being as efficient as humanly possible, and I'm trying to hit that gym so I unrack at 07:00 the best version of me.
我正在考虑尽可能提高效率，并且正在尝试去健身房，所以我在 07:00 展现出最好的自己。
And I can't do it if I'm thinking about a fight or an argument we had with the wife the night before, the kids, and this and that."
如果我想到前一天晚上我们与妻子、孩子们的争吵或争吵，以及这个那个，我就无法做到这一点。”
DJ Shipley: I have to be selfish right now because this is the only block I'm going to have for me to optimize myself, because at 10:00 AM, I'm going to get pulled from 50 different directions.
DJ Shipley：我现在必须自私，因为这是我优化自己的唯一障碍，因为在上午 10:00，我会被从 50 个不同的方向拉扯。
It's the exact same thing when I go home.
当我回家时，情况完全一样。
So now, between the hours of 10:00 AM and 6:00 PM, I'm only thinking about work.
所以现在，上午 10:00 到下午 6:00 之间，我只想着工作。
I don't think about my wife, don't think about my kids.
我不考虑我的妻子，不考虑我的孩子。
I only think about the team and everything we're trying to do.
我只考虑团队和我们正在努力做的一切。
DJ Shipley: At 6:00, you can watch, and I tell everybody, "If you would put a hidden camera in my car, it'd break the internet." I do it every day.
DJ Shipley：6:00，你们可以观看，我告诉大家，“如果你们在我的车里装一个隐藏的摄像头，就会破坏互联网。”我每天都这样做。
I slam that car into park.
我把那辆车撞进公园。
I put my phone on do not disturb.
我把手机设为请勿打扰。
I check social.
我检查社交。
I check all my texts.
我检查我所有的短信。
I'm good.
我很好。
There's no phone calls and I've got a 12-minute drive from door to door.
没有电话，我从一个门到另一个门需要 12 分钟的车程。
Those 12 minutes, I put on Chris Stapleton, something that makes me feel good, that calms me down, and I pre-rehearse everything that's going to happen the moment I hit that garage door opener.
在那 12 分钟里，我穿上了克里斯·斯台普顿 (Chris Stapleton)，这让我感觉良好，让我平静下来，我预先演练了在我按下车库门开启器的那一刻将要发生的一切。
Andrew Huberman: Really?
安德鲁·休伯曼：真的吗？
DJ Shipley: I do it every single day.
DJ Shipley：我每天都这样做。
Andrew Huberman: I realize it's personal, but to the extent that you're willing, maybe share a couple of what you're rehearsing.
Andrew Huberman：我知道这是个人的，但如果你愿意的话，也许可以分享一些你正在排练的内容。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: I pull onto the driveway.
DJ Shipley：我把车开到车道上。
I slam it back in park.
我把它摔回公园。
I check my phone one more time and I tell myself, "You're only going to have three hours, from 6:00 to 9:00, to be the person they need you to be.
我再次查看手机，告诉自己：“你只有三个小时的时间，从 6:00 到 9:00，来成为他们需要你成为的人。
You have to be a full-time dad right now.
你现在必须成为一名全职爸爸。
You have to be a full-time husband." And I don't get it right every time.
你必须成为一个全职丈夫。”而且我并不是每次都做对。
Some days, I drag that stuff home with me, two-hand texting frantically, but I really try not to.
有时，我会拖着这些东西回家，疯狂地两只手发短信，但我真的尽量不这样做。
And before I hit that garage door, I tell myself, like, "They don't know what's going on.
在我敲车库门之前，我告诉自己，“他们不知道发生了什么。
They don't know the stress you're at, at work.
他们不知道你在工作中承受的压力。
She's had her own day.
她也有属于自己的一天。
They've had their own day."
他们也有属于自己的一天。”
DJ Shipley: You know, I've got a daughter in seventh grade, I've got another one in second grade.
DJ Shipley：你知道，我有一个七年级的女儿，还有一个二年级的女儿。
We have to work through this whole thing together, and it's like, what version of me do I want to present to them right now?
我们必须一起解决这整件事，就像，我现在想向他们展示什么样的我？
I'm going to walk in, bag's over my right shoulder, I'm going to clear the threshold, and make an immediate 90-degree turn, and there's going to be that seven-year-old, and she's a huge ball of energy.
我要走进去，包放在我的右肩上，我要跨过门槛，然后立即进行 90 度转弯，就会看到那个七岁的孩子，她充满了能量。
She gets all shaken.
她浑身都动摇了。
She runs at me at full blast, and I pick her up, shake her, kiss her, like, 100% love.
她全力冲向我，我抱起她，摇晃她，亲吻她，就像百分百的爱一样。
Take an immediate right in the kitchen, there's my oldest, usually eating something before homework's about to start.
立即右转进入厨房，那里是我最年长的孩子，通常在作业开始前吃点东西。
DJ Shipley: Give her a kiss, give her a hug, ask her how her day was.
DJ Shipley：给她一个吻，给她一个拥抱，问她今天过得怎么样。
Straight to the room to see my wife, because she gets like a 30-minute buffer before she has to go upstairs and lock in with seventh-grade homework.
直接去房间见我的妻子，因为在她必须上楼完成七年级作业之前，她有 30 分钟的缓冲时间。
Check her, "What do you need?
询问她：“你需要什么？
If you can fold the towels, if you can start dinner, done."
如果你能折叠毛巾，如果你能开始吃晚饭，那就完成了。”
DJ Shipley: Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
DJ 希普利：繁荣，繁荣，繁荣，繁荣，繁荣。
So, my last interaction in the morning was positive.
所以，我早上的最后一次互动是积极的。
I left on a positive note.
我留下了积极的印象。
The first interaction you're getting at the end of the day is in a positive note, regardless of how I'm feeling.
无论我的感受如何，您在一天结束时获得的第一次互动都是积极的。
If I have to fake it, I'll fake it.
如果我必须伪造它，我就会伪造它。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I got three hours, and if you space over the course of five days, I don't have a lot of time to make positive memories.
DJ Shipley：我只有三个小时，如果你在五天内留出空间，我就没有太多时间来留下积极的回忆。
Just because of work and stress and everything else.
只是因为工作、压力和其他一切。
I'm trying to maximize those three hours, and then when I do, it feels like you can do no wrong.
我试图最大限度地利用这三个小时，然后当我这样做时，感觉你不会做错事。
But every night after we finish dinner, me and my wife do a 20-minute walk.
但每天晚上吃完晚饭后，我和妻子都会散步 20 分钟。
Ten minutes for her, so as soon as we start it, "Tell me about your day." Everything she wants to vent through, everything we have to get caught up on, we hit the halfway mark right around this park, and then it's my turn for 10 minutes.
她十分钟，所以我们一开始，“告诉我你今天的情况。”她想要发泄的一切，我们必须赶上的一切，我们就在这个公园周围到达了一半，然后轮到我了 10 分钟。
DJ Shipley: An average human can walk a mile in 20 minutes, helps circadian rhythm, helps digestion, I mean, mental clarity.
DJ Shipley：普通人可以在 20 分钟内走一英里，有助于昼夜节律，有助于消化，我的意思是，头脑清晰。
I'm not on my phone.
我不在手机上。
There's no stimulus.
没什么刺激啊
I'm watching the sunset.
我正在看日落。
But now it's 20 minutes just for us to reconnect, and we do it every single day.
但现在我们只需 20 分钟即可重新连接，而且我们每天都会这样做。
Unless it's a torrential downpour, we're doing it every single night, and our marriage has never been better.
除非是倾盆大雨，否则我们每天晚上都会这样做，我们的婚姻从未如此美好。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: My physical health has never been better, and then my time with my kids, I can be accountable for every single minute in my day.
DJ Shipley：我的身体健康状况从未如此好过，而且我和孩子们在一起的时间，我可以对一天中的每一分钟负责。
Did I maximize that opportunity?
我是否最大化了这个机会？
No. Why?
不，为什么？
Because I drug that dude home with me from 2:30 in the afternoon, I drug him all the way home till 6:00.
因为我从下午 2:30 开始给那个家伙下药，所以我一直给他下药直到 6:00。
DJ Shipley: That's not who they need.
DJ Shipley：那不是他们需要的人。
They don't need a commando.
他们不需要突击队。
They don't need a business owner.
他们不需要企业主。
They don't need an entrepreneur.
他们不需要企业家。
They need a dude that's going to have a tea party right now, or a guy that's going to talk about how difficult navigating seventh grade is.
他们需要一个马上就要开茶话会的人，或者一个会谈论七年级的学习有多么困难的人。
DJ Shipley: Like, she really needs a husband that's going to be fully present, because I haven't been for the majority of our marriage.
DJ Shipley：就像，她真的需要一个能够完全在场的丈夫，因为在我们婚姻的大部分时间里我都没有在场。
I've been gone, you know, 300 days out of the year.
你知道，一年中我已经离开了 300 天。
She really just needs a buddy who's going to help parent, and if I'm not mentally there, I'm never going to get there.
她真的只需要一个能帮助父母的伙伴，如果我精神上不在那里，我永远不会到达那里。
So I set conditions to where I can be the person I need to be, no matter what threshold I'm walking through, and it's been hugely beneficial for me.
因此，我设定了一些条件，让我能够成为我需要成为的人，无论我正在经历什么门槛，这对我来说非常有益。
Andrew Huberman: Perhaps one of the most underestimated but powerful tools to improve your mental health, your physical performance, and your cognitive performance is ensuring you get enough hydration every day.
Andrew Huberman：也许最被低估但最强大的改善心理健康、身体表现和认知表现的工具之一就是确保你每天摄入足够的水分。
The unfortunate reality, however, is that tap water often contains contaminants that negatively impact our health.
然而不幸的现实是，自来水通常含有对我们的健康产生负面影响的污染物。
So, while we're trying to get great hydration, that can cause serious problems.
因此，当我们努力补充水分时，这可能会导致严重的问题。
Andrew Huberman: In fact, a 2020 study by the Environmental Working Group estimated that more than 200 million Americans are exposed to PFAS chemicals, also known as forever chemicals, through drinking tap water.
Andrew Huberman：事实上，环境工作组 2020 年的一项研究估计，超过 2 亿美国人通过饮用自来水接触到 PFAS 化学物质，也称为永久化学物质。
These forever chemicals are linked to serious health issues, such as hormone disruption, gut microbiome disruption, fertility issues, and many other health problems, some of which are just now coming to light.
这些永久性化学物质与严重的健康问题有关，例如激素紊乱、肠道微生物组紊乱、生育问题和许多其他健康问题，其中一些问题刚刚被发现。
Andrew Huberman: For all these reasons, I was thrilled when I came across Rorra water filters, and now they're a sponsor of this podcast.
Andrew Huberman：出于所有这些原因，当我遇到 Rorra 滤水器时，我感到很兴奋，现在他们是这个播客的赞助商。
Rorra makes what I believe are the best water filters on the market.
我认为 Rorra 制造的是市场上最好的滤水器。
I've been using the Rorra countertop system for almost a year now.
我使用 Rorra 台面系统已经快一年了。
Andrew Huberman: Rorra’s filtration technology removes harmful substances, including endocrine disruptors and disinfection byproducts, while preserving beneficial minerals like magnesium and calcium.
Andrew Huberman：Rorra 的过滤技术可以去除有害物质，包括内分泌干扰物和消毒副产物，同时保留镁和钙等有益矿物质。
It requires no installation or plumbing, so it's extremely convenient.
它不需要安装或管道，因此非常方便。
It's built from medical-grade stainless steel, and it fits beautifully on your countertop.
它由医用级不锈钢制成，非常适合放在您的台面上。
It's something that you would want to have in your kitchen.
这是您希望在厨房里拥有的东西。
What's additionally impressive to me is Rorra’s transparency.
另外令我印象深刻的是罗拉的透明度。
You can find all of their independent third-party test results right on their website, and they report reduction data over the full life of the filter.
您可以在他们的网站上找到他们所有的独立第三方测试结果，并且他们报告过滤器整个使用寿命期间的减少数据。
Andrew Huberman: If you'd like to try Rorra, you can go to rorra.com/huberman and get an exclusive discount.
Andrew Huberman：如果您想尝试 Rorra，您可以访问 rorra.com/huberman 并获得独家折扣。
Again, that's Rorra, R-O-R-R-A, dot-com/huberman.
再说一遍，这是 Rorra、R-O-R-R-A、dot-com/huberman。
Andrew Huberman: Today's episode is also brought to us by BetterHelp.
Andrew Huberman：今天的节目也是由 BetterHelp 为我们带来的。
BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online.
BetterHelp 提供由持证治疗师完全在线进行的专业治疗。
I personally have been doing therapy for well over 35 years.
我个人从事治疗已经超过 35 年了。
I find it to be an extremely important component to overall health.
我发现它是整体健康极其重要的组成部分。
Andrew Huberman: In fact, I consider doing regular therapy just as important as getting regular exercise, including cardiovascular exercise and resistance training, which, of course, I also do every week.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：事实上，我认为定期治疗与定期锻炼一样重要，包括心血管锻炼和阻力训练，当然，我每周也会进行这些锻炼。
There are essentially three things that great therapy provides.
伟大的治疗本质上可以提供三件事。
Andrew Huberman: First of all, great therapy provides good rapport with somebody that you can really trust and discuss any issues with.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：首先，出色的治疗可以与您真正信任的人建立良好的融洽关系并与之讨论任何问题。
Second of all, it can provide support in the form of emotional guidance or directed guidance toward specific actions you want to take in your life.
其次，它可以以情感指导或针对您想要在生活中采取的具体行动的定向指导的形式提供支持。
And third, expert therapy can provide you with useful insights, insights that can allow you to make changes to improve your life, not just at the emotional level, but also your relationship life, your professional life, and on and on.
第三，专家治疗可以为您提供有用的见解，这些见解可以让您做出改变以改善您的生活，不仅是在情感层面，还包括您的人际关系生活、职业生活等等。
Andrew Huberman: With BetterHelp, they make it very easy to find an expert therapist that can help provide these benefits that come through expert therapy, and it's carried out entirely online, so it's extremely convenient.
Andrew Huberman：通过 BetterHelp，他们可以很容易地找到一位专家治疗师，可以帮助提供通过专家治疗带来的这些好处，并且完全在线进行，因此非常方便。
If you'd like to try BetterHelp, you can go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month.
如果您想尝试 BetterHelp，可以访问 betterhelp.com/huberman，第一个月可享受 10% 的折扣。
Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman.
再说一次，这是 betterhelp.com/huberman。
Andrew Huberman: What an awesome example.
安德鲁·休伯曼：多么棒的例子啊。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And the two dos are super impressive.
Andrew Huberman：这两件事令人印象深刻。
I wonder if we could just explore a little bit of the to-not dos.
我想知道我们是否可以探讨一些不该做的事情。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: A lot of what you described, it's clear.
Andrew Huberman：你所描述的很多内容都很清楚。
It requires having the phone away.
它需要把手机拿开。
I mean, I could go on and on about phones, but the incoming is incessant, right?
我的意思是，我可以不停地谈论电话，但来电却源源不断，对吗？
You know, and the temptation is really tough to deal with.
你知道，这种诱惑确实很难应对。
So when you walk in the door, because you're with family, phone is in the car, or it's just shut off.
所以当你走进门时，因为你和家人在一起，手机在车里，或者只是关机了。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: During the day, when you're going about your work, is it understood that if your wife wants to get ahold of you, she can, but there's a high threshold for that?
安德鲁·休伯曼：白天，当你忙于工作时，如果你的妻子想联系你，她可以，但门槛很高，这是否可以理解？
Because I think a lot of couples get into, you know, just pinging each other here and there, this and that.
因为我认为很多情侣都会，你知道，只是到处互相敲击，这样那样。
Even in business teams, there's a lot of unnecessary communication.
即使在业务团队中，也存在很多不必要的沟通。
DJ Shipley: I'm fortunate now that my wife actually works inside the business, so she gets it, and she knows that once I lock in, when that camera turns on, that microphone goes on, you have to leave me alone.
DJ Shipley：我现在很幸运，我的妻子实际上在这个行业工作，所以她明白了，她知道一旦我锁定，当摄像机打开，麦克风打开时，你就必须让我一个人呆着。
And I tell people, like, "I'm not trained to do this." I'm a normal dude, so I'm really susceptible to negative energy, and they know better.
我告诉人们，“我没有接受过这样做的训练。”我是一个普通人，所以我很容易受到负能量的影响，他们更清楚。
Don't slam me with something negative before I have to turn that microphone on, because I'm not going to be able to compartmentalize it all the way.
在我必须打开麦克风之前，请不要用负面的东西来攻击我，因为我无法将其完全划分开来。
I need to be the best version of me right now, so wait till I'm done and then deliver the bad news.
我现在需要成为最好的自己，所以等我完成后，再传达坏消息。
And she's the same way.
而她也是同样的情况。
She's an absolute gangster, and she knows.
她绝对是个黑帮，她知道。
DJ Shipley: She's like, "Hey, when you get done today, we have to talk." I'm like, "What is it?" And she says, "Nothing bad." It'll definitely be something bad, but she doesn't even give me an inkling because she knows it'll rob me of bandwidth.
DJ Shipley：她就像是，“嘿，当你今天完成后，我们必须谈谈。”我想，“这是什么？”她说：“没什么不好的。”这肯定会是件坏事，但她甚至没有给我任何暗示，因为她知道这会抢走我的带宽。
She's like, "Go do what you do.
她就像是，“去做你该做的事吧。
As soon as you get done, we'll talk." And on that 20-minute walk, she'll drop it.
等你忙完了，我们再聊。”在那20分钟的步行中，她会放弃它。
But now we're here.
但现在我们来了。
I'm in a clear headspace.
我处于一个清晰的头脑空间。
I've had a productive day.
我度过了富有成效的一天。
We've had a great 10 minutes into this.
我们度过了愉快的 10 分钟。
Now hit me with the bad news.
现在告诉我一个坏消息。
Last 10 minutes, we'll solve it together.
最后10分钟，我们一起解决。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: But not getting on that social media first thing in the morning.
DJ Shipley：但早上第一件事不是上社交媒体。
I used to be the guy.
我曾经是那个家伙。
I'd roll over.
我会翻身。
I'd immediately open up Instagram, and I'm checking it.
我会立即打开 Instagram，然后查看它。
What are the comments?
有什么评论？
How's the posting doing?
发帖进展如何？
How's this?
这怎么样？
How's that?
怎么样？
You'll stay there for 40 minutes.
您将在那里停留 40 分钟。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And then if you see something negative, I'll ride that, I'll wear that jacket all day long.
DJ Shipley：如果你看到一些负面的东西，我会骑它，我会整天穿着那件夹克。
I can't get it away from me.
我无法把它从我身边夺走。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: So, I don't take a Zoom call, I don't take a phone call.
DJ Shipley：所以，我不接 Zoom 电话，我不接电话。
There's nothing that happens inside of my orbit before 10:00 AM.
上午 10:00 之前我的轨道内没有发生任何事情。
From 7:00 to 10:00, that's my morning block.
从 7:00 到 10:00，这是我的早上时段。
I've got the whole team in there.
我整个团队都在里面。
We do fitness from 7:00 to 9:00.
我们从7:00到9:00进行健身。
I make them all do a 20-minute walk.
我让他们都步行 20 分钟。
I make the whole team protein shakes.
我为整个团队制作蛋白质奶昔。
I take a shower, and at 10:00 AM, I walk out.
我洗了个澡，上午 10:00 出门。
"Hit me with it.
“用它来打我吧。
What have we got to do?
我们必须做什么？
We're going to range in my training, and we're shooting content.
我们将进行训练，并拍摄内容。
What are we doing right now?
我们现在在做什么？
You have full bandwidth until I leave here."
在我离开这里之前，你拥有完整的带宽。”
DJ Shipley: And if I run till midnight, we run till midnight, but you have both barrels of me at 100% because I've controlled that entire morning routine.
DJ Shipley：如果我跑到午夜，我们就会跑到午夜，但是我的两桶能量都处于 100%，因为我已经控制了整个早上的例行公事。
And it's been the best thing that's ever happened to us.
这是我们经历过的最好的事情。
But you have to be consistent.
但你必须保持一致。
It's like everything else.
就像其他一切一样。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: What's the best diet?
DJ Shipley：最好的饮食是什么？
The one you'll stick to.
是你会坚持下去的那一个。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And that morning routine has been the biggest game-changer I've had.
DJ Shipley：早上的例行公事是我经历过的最大的改变。
Andrew Huberman: That's awesome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
I feel like the teams, and I've been fortunate to know and work with some folks from the teams, seem to have what I call kind of an 'unconscious genius,' as a whole, as a system.
我觉得这些团队，而且我很幸运能够认识团队中的一些人并与他们一起工作，作为一个整体，作为一个系统，似乎拥有我所谓的“无意识天才”。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: We could talk about buds, we could talk about selection for Tier 1 stuff, we could talk about any of that, and we will.
Andrew Huberman：我们可以谈论芽，我们可以谈论一级材料的选择，我们可以谈论任何这些，我们会的。
But it seems to me that a lot of the practices that are built up in the teams and in team guys who are successful when they transition out are built around this notion I just call 'unconscious genius,' where they weren't thinking about, like, 'What's the underlying neural circuitry?' Or this and that.
但在我看来，团队中以及在转型后取得成功的团队成员中建立的许多实践都是围绕这个我称之为“无意识天才”的概念建立的，他们没有考虑“潜在的神经回路是什么？”或者这个那个。
And everything you describe, by the way, is, is extremely actionable for anybody.
顺便说一句，你所描述的一切对于任何人来说都是极其可行的。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I love that you told us, and I'm going to underscore this, highlight it, and bold it right now, is that it doesn't matter if you went to bed at 2:30 AM or you went to bed at midnight, you're getting up at the same time.
Andrew Huberman：我喜欢你告诉我们的，我要强调这一点，现在就大胆强调，无论你是在凌晨 2:30 上床睡觉还是在午夜上床睡觉，你都会在同一时间起床。
It's actually critical for keeping sleep rhythms healthy.
它实际上对于保持健康的睡眠节律至关重要。
And one thing from the literature I'll just share is that it's clear that if people have the same wake-up time each day, that whatever sleep they get prior to that wake-up time, you get the maximum amount of growth hormone release that's possible, which is, of course, crucial for recovery.
我要分享的文献中的一件事是，很明显，如果人们每天都有相同的起床时间，那么无论他们在起床时间之前获得多少睡眠，都会获得尽可能多的生长激素释放，这当然对恢复至关重要。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Not just growing muscles, but recovery, et cetera.
Andrew Huberman：不仅仅是增长肌肉，还有恢复等等。
So there's that.
所以就是这样。
You guys came to that.
你们就是这么过来的。
There's that kind of, you didn't need to know the science.
就是这样，你不需要了解科学。
You just arrived at it.
你刚刚到达。
But also, the brain is so context-dependent.
而且，大脑也非常依赖于环境。
And throughout your description, I keep hearing that, you know, if there's...
在你的描述中，我不断听到，你知道，如果有......
you'll wear that jacket all day long.
你会整天穿着那件夹克。
Like, it can pull you in.
就像，它可以吸引你。
I mean, you're a strong-minded individual, you know how to control your own behavior, clearly, but you are susceptible like anybody else.
我的意思是，你是一个意志坚强的人，你清楚地知道如何控制自己的行为，但你和其他人一样容易受到影响。
Andrew Huberman: And I always think of mental states as that, you know, we can either be like a ball bearing on a flat surface, where that ball bearing can go anywhere with even just the slightest tilt or even a breeze, versus little dimples in that surface, where it can kind of reside, but it can get blown out or pushed out easily.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我总是认为精神状态是这样的，你知道，我们可以像平坦表面上的滚珠轴承一样，即使只有最轻微的倾斜，甚至微风，滚珠轴承也可以去任何地方，而不是表面上的小凹坑，它可以驻留在其中，但很容易被吹出或推出。
And ultimately, what we're all seeking is to drop like a ball bearing into a trench.
最终，我们都在寻求像滚珠轴承一样掉入沟渠中。
Andrew Huberman: And rage bait and numbing out, which are the two kinds of core features of social media, except there's this other opportunity to learn.
安德鲁·休伯曼：愤怒诱饵和麻木是社交媒体的两种核心特征，除了还有其他学习机会。
I feel like those drop us immediately into that trench.
我觉得那些立即让我们陷入了困境。
And so, I feel like our brain wants to be the ball bearing at the bottom of that trench.
所以，我觉得我们的大脑想成为沟渠底部的滚珠轴承。
But it's tempting to not do the work to get there.
但人们很容易不去努力去实现这一目标。
Andrew Huberman: And so, there are things in the world, highly processed, highly palatable foods, you know, certain aspects of social media, because I don't think all of it is unhealthy, that provide that opportunity to drop into that trench.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，世界上有一些东西，高度加工的、高度美味的食物，你知道，社交媒体的某些方面，因为我不认为所有这些都是不健康的，这提供了陷入困境的机会。
And so, clearly, the unconscious genius here is that you arrived at, it seems, an understanding that you're very context dependent.
因此，很明显，这里的无意识天才在于，你似乎理解了自己非常依赖于环境。
You know?
你知道？
It's not that you're so robust internally that you can throw anything your way.
这并不是说你内心强大到可以随心所欲地扔任何东西。
Andrew Huberman: It's exactly because you're, if I may, you're not that robust internally, that you understand the brain, that you can't let anything come your way.
安德鲁·休伯曼：正是因为你，如果可以的话，你的内在并不那么强大，你了解大脑，所以你不能让任何事情顺你的意。
But if you set the context internally, then the rest of your day is maybe not a breeze, but it's workable.
但如果你在内部设置了上下文，那么你这一天剩下的时间可能不会轻而易举，但它是可行的。
And you'll stay that ball bearing in the trench that you're determining.
您将把滚珠轴承留在您确定的沟槽中。
Do I have that right?
我有这个权利吗？
DJ Shipley: Exactly.
DJ 希普利：没错。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
So, I think this is important, because I think a lot of people hear about special operators and high performers and their structure and their routine, and they assume, they wake up and they're like, 'Into the day, nothing's going to bother me.' It's because things have the potential to bother you that you have to structure it that way.
所以，我认为这很重要，因为我认为很多人听说过特殊操作员和高绩效人员以及他们的结构和日常工作，他们认为，他们醒来后会说，“到今天，没有什么会打扰我。”因为事情有可能让你烦恼，所以你必须以这种方式构建它。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
For me, that's very helpful to hear.
对我来说，听到这些非常有帮助。
And I think you're also defining the difference between an artist.
我认为你也在定义艺术家之间的区别。
I know a lot of artists.
我认识很多艺术家。
They kind of float about their day, they're two hours late to things, and then the stuff emerges, right?
他们一天中的生活有些飘忽不定，他们迟到了两个小时，然后事情就出现了，对吗？
I mean, I can tell you stories about people in Los Angeles and how meeting times, and I'm a little guilty of this, but it's incredible the way that things just kind of orbit around certain people.
我的意思是，我可以告诉你关于洛杉矶人们的故事以及如何聚会，我对此感到有点内疚，但事情围绕某些人运行的方式令人难以置信。
But then they bring the magic, and so the world continues to orbit around them, versus an operator.
但随后他们带来了魔力，因此世界继续围绕他们运行，而不是操作员。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And I feel like everything you described is like the essence of being an operator.
Andrew Huberman：我觉得你所描述的一切就像作为一名操作员的本质。
You're approaching your civilian life the same way, presumably, you did your operating life.
大概，你正在以同样的方式对待你的平民生活，就像你对待你的工作生活一样。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So, let's say you have a morning where something goes wrong.
Andrew Huberman：那么，假设您有一天早上出了点问题。
There's no toothpaste in the toothbrush.
牙刷里没有牙膏。
Or something more serious.
或者更严重的事情。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Like your wife really needs to talk about something.
安德鲁·休伯曼：就像你的妻子真的需要谈谈一些事情一样。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Maybe she's so, you know, together that that never happens.
安德鲁·休伯曼：也许她是如此，你知道，在一起，这样的事情永远不会发生。
Will you forego those minutes, or how do you deal with that?
你会放弃这些时间吗？或者你会如何处理？
DJ Shipley: The situation really dictates.
DJ Shipley：情况确实决定了。
When I was in, I wouldn't.
我进去的时候，我不会。
I'd wake up before everybody else is in there, and it's a lot of stuff I tell to the new guys in special operations, like, "If you sacrifice your sleep, when it doesn't affect anyone else, you can really lay the foundation for greatness." Right?
我会在其他人之前醒来，我会告诉特种部队的新人很多东西，比如，“如果你牺牲你的睡眠，当它不影响其他任何人时，你真的可以为伟大奠定基础。”正确的？
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: "Your first four years, don't rush to make her your girlfriend.
DJ Shipley：“你的头四年，不要急于让她成为你的女朋友。
Don't make her your wife.
别让她成为你的妻子。
Don't have a kid.
不要有孩子。
Don't get a dog.
别养狗。
Just focus on being a Green Beret.
只要专注于成为一名绿色贝雷帽即可。
Focus on being a Navy SEAL and just do that.
专注于成为一名海豹突击队队员，然后就去做吧。
Then, when that girlfriend turns into a fiancée, you can have the bandwidth to do them both."
然后，当那个女朋友变成未婚妻时，你就可以拥有足够的带宽来同时完成这两件事。”
DJ Shipley: It's very hard to do that job, you know, build that boat at the high seas, and now you're dragging your wife into it.
DJ Shipley：做这项工作非常困难，你知道，在公海上建造那艘船，现在你要把你的妻子拖进去。
It's hard to do.
这很难做到。
But the situation dictates.
但形势所迫。
If it's something I really have to solve, we really have to solve it.
如果这是我确实必须解决的问题，我们也确实必须解决它。
But she knows, no matter what, I'm unracking at 07.
但她知道，无论如何，我在 07 岁时就已经开始工作了。
DJ Shipley: I'm not missing this for you, I'm not missing it for everybody else, because she knows what's going to happen.
DJ Shipley：我不会为你而想念这个，我也不会为其他人而想念这个，因为她知道会发生什么。
So, she'll either grab me at lunch, "Hey, do you have a block here we can talk?" For sure.
所以，她要么会在午餐时抓住我，“嘿，你有时间我们可以谈谈吗？”一定。
We'll maybe start the initial conversation.
我们也许会开始最初的对话。
If it starts going south or I think it's going to take long, I'll look down at my watch, like, "Honey, I have to go.
如果天气开始向南移动或者我认为需要很长时间，我会低头看看手表，就像，“亲爱的，我必须走了。
I got 12 minutes to be there." She's like, "Okay.
我还有 12 分钟到达那里。”她就像是，“好吧。
We'll catch you for lunch." "Cool." And we'll go.
我们来接你吃午饭。” “凉爽的。”我们就走吧。
I can't miss morning movement.
我不能错过早晨的运动。
I can't do it.
我做不到。
That will ruin my day.
那会毁了我的一天。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And if I'm rushed through morning movement, if somebody comes in, somebody beats on the door, and they're like, "Hey, we were in the neighborhood, just wanted to come see you, can we talk for 20 minutes?" "No. You can't.
DJ Shipley：如果我早上的活动很匆忙，如果有人进来，有人敲门，他们会说，“嘿，我们在附近，只是想来看你，我们可以聊 20 分钟吗？” “不。你不能。
No. I'm sorry.
不，对不起。
And I know it sounds bad.
我知道这听起来很糟糕。
You can't, because I know what happens if I miss this day.
你不能，因为我知道如果我错过这一天会发生什么。
And I'm not willing to take the chance on you right now.
我现在不愿意给你机会。
You can wait an hour.
你可以等一个小时。
Wait till I'm done."
等我说完了。”
DJ Shipley: But it's hard.
DJ Shipley：但这很难。
You know, and now we've kind of restructured the whole day to where I can get my time in in the morning, and I can leave with just enough time to see my kids wake up now.
你知道，现在我们已经调整了一整天的时间，让我可以在早上享受我的时间，我可以离开，有足够的时间看到我的孩子们醒来。
DJ Shipley: They're pouring cereal, so now I get that little dopamine hit of seeing them, and I kick off their morning in a positive way.
DJ Shipley：他们正在倒麦片，所以现在看到他们我会产生一点多巴胺的刺激，我以积极的方式开始他们的早晨。
Right?
正确的？
I'm doing red light therapy in the morning.
我早上正在做红光疗法。
I'm still going to unrack at 0:07.
我还是要在 0:07 开架。
I'm still getting up at 5:00, but now I'm just in the house getting everything processed.
我仍然在 5:00 起床，但现在我只是在家里处理所有事情。
I'm going to leave on my terms, and that way, they get to see me first thing in the morning.
我要按照我的条件离开，这样他们早上第一件事就能见到我。
I only get three hours at night.
我晚上只有三个小时的时间。
Well, if I get 30 minutes in the morning, stacked over the course of a year, that's a huge difference.
好吧，如果我每天早上抽出 30 分钟的时间，累积起来一年的时间，那就是一个巨大的差异。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It's like we've restructured the entire day, with the whole team also on that exact same schedule.
DJ Shipley：就好像我们重新安排了一整天的时间，整个团队也遵循完全相同的时间表。
Right?
正确的？
And it's not just me, it's not just my world.
这不仅仅是我，这不仅仅是我的世界。
I mean, business partners, Cole, and everybody else, everybody who does that morning block of fitness, that's why I've been pushing it this whole time.
我的意思是，商业伙伴、科尔和其他所有人，每个早上进行健身的人，这就是我一直在推动它的原因。
And if you look at anybody in the military, anybody in the fire department, anybody in special operations, the military in general, everybody's day always starts with fitness.
如果你看看军队中的任何人、消防部门的任何人、特种部队的任何人、整个军队，每个人的一天总是从健身开始。
When you're in boot camp, you wake up, you do a workout, and then you eat.
当你在新兵训练营时，你醒来，锻炼，然后吃饭。
DJ Shipley: When you go into BUD/S, you wake up, you work out essentially all day long, and go to sleep.
DJ Shipley：当你进入 BUD/S 时，你会醒来，基本上一整天都在锻炼，然后就去睡觉。
It's the same thing.
这是同样的事情。
When you get to the SEAL team, you do the same thing.
当你加入海豹突击队时，你也会做同样的事情。
Everybody wakes up, everybody does fitness, the very first thing, and then we start our day.
每个人都起床，每个人都做健身，这是第一件事，然后我们就开始新的一天。
It's been really successful.
这真的很成功。
Why would I ever break that?
我为什么要打破这个？
DJ Shipley: When you see guys, when they transition out, they get away from it.
DJ Shipley：当你看到一些人，当他们转型时，他们就会摆脱它。
They gain a bunch of weight.
他们体重增加了很多。
They start drinking.
他们开始喝酒。
"You working out five days a week?" "No." "Why?
“你每周锻炼五天吗？” “不。” “为什么？
You've been doing it since you were 17 years old.
你从17岁就开始这么做了。
Why would you break it now?
为什么现在要打破它？
Why?"
为什么？”
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, why do you think that, that happens?
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，你认为为什么会发生这种情况？
DJ Shipley: I think guys use excuses, injuries, limitations, and lack of motivation.
DJ Shipley：我认为人们会利用借口、伤病、限制和缺乏动力。
Like, 'Oh, there's no reason for me to be in shape.' Longevity of life.
就像，“哦，我没有理由保持身材。”长寿。
Everybody says, "Oh, I'd take a bullet for my kids." You won't lose 40 pounds for them.
每个人都说：“哦，我愿意为我的孩子们挡子弹。”你不会因为它们减掉 40 磅。
You won't prolong life.
你不会延长生命。
If you think you're a real asset to your family, why wouldn't you try to maximize that time?
如果您认为自己是家庭的真正财富，为什么不尝试最大限度地利用这些时间呢？
So I look at them now.
所以我现在看着他们。
It doesn't take a whole lot.
这并不需要太多。
Like, you don't have to be David Goggins.
就像，你不必成为大卫·戈金斯。
You don't have to run 100 miles a day.
你不必每天跑100英里。
You can wake up and do a 20-minute walk every single day, and you'll be better off for it.
你可以每天起床后步行 20 分钟，这样你的健康状况会更好。
DJ Shipley: You could grab a set of kettlebells.
DJ Shipley：你可以拿一套壶铃。
Thirty minutes in your garage.
在你的车库里呆了三十分钟。
That is something every single day that makes you exponentially better, just through the repetition of being there, being present, being a little selfish right now so you can be selfish later.
这就是每天都会让你指数级地变得更好的事情，只是通过重复存在，存在，现在有点自私，这样你以后就可以自私。
So for me, if I don't get that workout in, and everybody's got stuff going on, I do too.
所以对我来说，如果我不参加锻炼，而每个人都有事情要做，我也会这样做。
If I don't get that block of fitness in, I will think about that all day long.
如果我没有得到锻炼，我会整天思考这个问题。
I'll think about it for weeks.
我会考虑几个星期。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: We go back, the next time we hit that muscle group, I don't get the same numbers I thought I would.
DJ Shipley：我们回去，下次我们锻炼那个肌肉群时，我没有得到与我想象的相同的数字。
Well, that's because I took Monday off.
嗯，那是因为我周一休息了。
I'm never going to put myself in that position.
我永远不会把自己置于那样的境地。
I don't want to have to have that excuse, so I set the foundation, I lay it down, I stamp it on a piece of paper.
我不想有这样的借口，所以我奠定了基础，把它放下，我把它印在一张纸上。
That's what I'm doing.
这就是我正在做的事情。
I'm not compromising on it.
我不会对此妥协。
And it's been great for us.
这对我们来说很棒。
Andrew Huberman: That's awesome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
I mean, as somebody who got into resistance training in his teens and running.
我的意思是，作为一个十几岁就开始进行阻力训练和跑步的人。
I confess, over the years, I felt some guilt around working out, because in my community of scientists, now I have a much broader community.
我承认，多年来，我对锻炼感到有些内疚，因为在我的科学家社区中，现在我有了更广泛的社区。
You know, you go to meetings.
你知道，你去参加会议。
Everyone's sitting all day and eating bad food, and then it was happy hour.
每个人都整天坐着吃着难吃的食物，然后就是欢乐时光了。
I was never much of a drinker, but I would participate a bit until eventually I just stopped drinking entirely.
我从来不怎么喝酒，但我会参与一些，直到最终我完全戒酒。
Andrew Huberman: And occasionally I would sneak off during some of the, I'll just be honest, the weak talks.
安德鲁·休伯曼：老实说，偶尔我会在一些薄弱的谈话中偷偷溜走。
I was like, 'I've seen this person speak before.
我当时想，‘我以前见过这个人说话。
I'm going to get a workout in.' And only once did I ever run into a colleague in the gym at one of these places, and we both were like, it was like getting caught doing something bad.
我要去锻炼一下。我只在其中一个地方的健身房里遇到过一位同事，我们俩都觉得，这就像被抓到做坏事一样。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But then the years went by, and I saw my colleagues start to die.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但随着时间的流逝，我看到我的同事们开始死去。
I saw my colleagues start to get sick.
我看到我的同事开始生病。
I saw my colleagues start to resemble melted candles.
我看到我的同事们开始变得像融化的蜡烛。
And these were people that had a lot of robustness, and they also had a lot to offer, and families and friends.
这些人都很坚强，他们也有很多可以提供的东西，还有家人和朋友。
And so, I think nowadays people think about physical fitness a little bit differently.
所以，我认为现在人们对身体健康的看法有点不同。
They understand it's an investment, and therefore, it's beneficial to the people around you.
他们明白这是一项投资，因此对您周围的人有益。
Andrew Huberman: But I still see a lot of people kind of couch it, especially with respect to anything that relates to muscle, as kind of selfish and narcissistic, and this kind of thing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但我仍然看到很多人对此抱有某种态度，特别是在与肌肉有关的任何事情上，认为这是一种自私和自恋，诸如此类的事情。
And I think it's so important that people understand the mental health benefits, but also the benefits that it can bring to the people in your life.
我认为让人们了解它对心理健康的好处以及它能给你生活中的人带来的好处非常重要。
And not just longevity, but just the person that it brings.
不仅仅是长寿，还有它带来的人。
You really understand yourself.
你真的很了解自己。
In the back of my mind, I'm thinking about, you know, the oracle, "Know thyself." It's like so important.
在我的内心深处，我正在思考，你知道，神谕，“认识你自己”。好像很重要一样
Andrew Huberman: If you don't get that workout, you're going to have to force out being the best husband, the best dad, the best teammate.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：如果你没有得到锻炼，你将不得不被迫放弃成为最好的丈夫、最好的父亲、最好的队友。
And if you do get that workout, they still get that best dad, everything, but it's that much more genuine, and it probably is in abundance.
如果你真的得到了锻炼，他们仍然会得到最好的爸爸，一切，但它更加真诚，而且可能是丰富的。
DJ Shipley: One of the things that nobody ever talks about is your body awareness.
DJ Shipley：没人谈论的事情之一就是你的身体意识。
When you do fitness for a long time, 50 years old, you've been doing fitness for a very long time, you are so in tune with that vessel that when something does pop up, you identify it right away.
当你健身很长时间的时候，50岁，你已经健身很长时间了，你和那个血管非常协调，当有东西突然出现时，你马上就能认出来。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: When you don't, you're like, "Um, my back kind of hurts." "Where?" "Uh..." You don't know.
DJ Shipley：当你不这样做时，你会说，“嗯，我的背有点疼。” “在哪里？” “呃……”你不知道。
I'm in tune with that thing so well that when I walk into a doctor, I'm like, "Take a needle three inches down, rotate it over 45 degrees, and that's where it is." I'm like, "Okay, this is it."
我对这件事非常适应，以至于当我走进医生那里时，我会说，“拿一根针向下三英寸，将其旋转 45 度，那就是它所在的位置。”我想，“好吧，就是这样。”
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I'm so in tune with it.
DJ Shipley：我非常喜欢它。
So when anything pops up, I can diagnose it.
所以当出现任何问题时，我可以诊断它。
I can walk in and give them actual feedback on what's happening.
我可以走进去，向他们提供有关正在发生的事情的实际反馈。
I'm not just sitting on the couch all day long just...
我不是整天坐在沙发上...
"Like, uh, my neck kind of hurts." "No, I know exactly what it is." I'm doing a full diagnostic approach the entire day.
“呃，我的脖子有点疼。” “不，我很清楚那是什么。”我一整天都在进行全面的诊断方法。
DJ Shipley: And that's why I've got Vernon.
DJ Shipley：这就是我选择 Vernon 的原因。
He's the best strength coach in the world, and if I didn't have that guy, I would be...
他是世界上最好的力量教练，如果我没有那个人，我就会……
I mean, he's brought me back from the dead more times than I can count.
我的意思是，他让我起死回生的次数多得我数不清。
But it's five days a week.
但一周有五天。
He's in there every day.
他每天都在那里。
So if I walk in and I've got a slight limp on my left side, he's like, "Hey, my man, come over here.
所以，如果我走进去，发现我的左侧有点跛，他就会说：“嘿，伙计，过来一下。
What is that?" And I was like, "Oh, nothing." He said, "Bruised heel?" "Yeah, how'd you know it was a bruised heel?" He's like, "I watched that broad jump on Friday.
那是什么？”我当时想，“哦，没什么。”他说：“脚后跟擦伤了？” “是啊，你怎么知道那是脚后跟擦伤的？”他说，“我周五看了跳远比赛。
Like you landed a little funky.
就像你落地时有点时髦。
I wanted to see if it was going to mess with you."
我想看看它会不会给你带来麻烦。”
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: He IDed it.
DJ Shipley：他发现了。
I IDed it.
我查出来了
I just wasn't going to say anything.
我只是不想说什么。
"Okay, what are you going to do about it?" Right?
“好吧，你打算怎么办？”正确的？
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Be proact- instead of reactive.
DJ Shipley：要主动，而不是被动。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: But that's because you're chipping away, and you know, you understand yourself so well because you are constantly in tune with your body, and people just forget about it.
DJ Shipley：但那是因为你正在逐渐进步，而且你知道，你非常了解自己，因为你不断地与自己的身体保持一致，而人们却忘记了这一点。
Like, "Why aren't you sleeping?" "Well, I had caffeine at 4:00." Oh, I'm accountable for everything I put in my body and then everything that comes out of me.
比如“你怎么还不睡觉？” “嗯，我在 4:00 喝了咖啡因。”哦，我对我放入体内的一切以及从我体内排出的一切负责。
The gym's just one of the methods that really ties them all together for me.
对我来说，健身房只是真正将它们联系在一起的方法之一。
Andrew Huberman: The body awareness piece, I think, is something that we should also underscore a bit.
Andrew Huberman：我认为，我们也应该强调一下身体意识。
I think one thing that happens if people don't develop body awareness is that they don't learn the difference between something that hurts and an injury.
我认为，如果人们不培养身体意识，就会发生一件事，那就是他们不了解疼痛和受伤之间的区别。
A few years ago, right before going on Cam Hanes' podcast where you carry that rock...
几年前，就在你带着那块石头上 Cam Hanes 的播客之前……
I was about to say he makes you carry the rock, but you don't have to.
我本来想说他让你搬石头，但你不必这么做。
You carry the rock up.
你把石头搬上来。
The thing's heavy.
东西很重。
It's 72 pounds.
这是 72 磅。
DJ Shipley: Mm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Slippery.
安德鲁·休伯曼：很滑。
It's muddy.
是泥泞的。
It's 1,000 feet of elevation.
海拔 1,000 英尺。
And people do it, right?
人们也这样做，对吗？
You can do it.
你可以做到的。
But I'd popped a hamstring on the hamstring curl machine a couple of days before.
但几天前我在腿筋弯举机上拉伤了腿筋。
DJ Shipley: Oh.
DJ 希普利：哦。
Andrew Huberman: But I didn't pop pop it.
Andrew Huberman：但我没有弹出它。
It didn't unravel up the tendon.
它并没有解开肌腱。
So I was like, "I'm just not going to talk about it.
所以我想，“我只是不打算谈论它。
I'm not going to say anything.
我不会说什么。
I'm not going to..." Because that's going to create its own thing.
我不会……”因为那会创造出它自己的东西。
I was like, "I'm hurt.
我当时想，“我受伤了。
It hurt, but I'm not injured." And knowing that line is really important, because if you are injured, it'd be the stupidest thing in the world to carry that rock up that hill, right?
很痛，但我没有受伤。”知道那条线真的很重要，因为如果你受伤了，把那块石头搬上山将是世界上最愚蠢的事情，对吧？
If you end up out for six months, potentially, or four months...
如果你最终缺席六个月，可能，或者四个月......
I had, years ago, a back pain, kind of sciatica thing, and I couldn't stand up.
几年前，我患有背痛，有点坐骨神经痛，而且无法站立。
Actually, it was online.
事实上，它是在线的。
It was Instagram.
这是Instagram。
And I have no business affiliation to this kid, but there was a...
我和这个孩子没有任何商业关系，但是有一个......
I think he's a chiropractor.
我认为他是一名脊椎按摩师。
He has this channel called RehabFix.
他有一个名为 RehabFix 的频道。
And he convinced me that what I need to do is some updog things.
他让我相信我需要做一些积极向上的事情。
It looks like you're kind of humping the floor.
看起来你有点像在拱地板。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Your pelvis is down and you're pushing up and you're...
Andrew Huberman：你的骨盆向下，你向上推，你......
Repeat those as kind of like lizard push-ups, you know?
重复这些就像蜥蜴俯卧撑，你知道吗？
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And then against the wall if you can't actually do that from the floor.
Andrew Huberman：如果你实际上无法在地板上做到这一点，那么就靠在墙上。
Within three days, it resolved itself.
三天之内，事情就自行解决了。
DJ Shipley: Hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And I was thinking about pain meds, which I don't like to take.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我在考虑止痛药，但我不喜欢服用。
In fact, I avoid them entirely.
事实上，我完全避开它们。
I was thinking, "Well, am I going to have to have surgery?" I mean, I could not stand up.
我在想，“那么，我必须接受手术吗？”我的意思是，我无法站起来。
I couldn't move.
我无法动弹。
I couldn't do it.
我做不到。
And I realized then, I was like, "Okay, the line between hurt and truly injured is often kind of blurry, and you need to be able to work through that space." And you think about this and it...
然后我意识到，我想，“好吧，受伤和真正受伤之间的界限通常是模糊的，你需要能够穿越这个空间。”你想想这个……
Through one lens and it sounds like a selfish thing, "Oh, it's all about being able to work out more." If you think about it through another lens, people who think they're injured or who are in pain and don't resolve that, are very difficult to be around, very difficult.
从一个角度来看，这听起来像是一件自私的事情，“哦，这都是为了能够锻炼更多。”如果你从另一个角度思考，那些认为自己受伤或处于痛苦之中却无法解决问题的人，是很难相处的，非常困难的。
I've been that person.
我就是那个人。
It's just everything grates on you.
只是一切都让你烦恼。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And male, female, young, or old, people now, they'll talk about their neck, or they can't sleep right.
Andrew Huberman：现在，无论男性、女性、年轻人还是老年人，他们都会谈论自己的脖子，否则他们就无法入睡。
And I think being able to suck stuff up is really great.
我认为能够吸收东西真的很棒。
It's also important to know when you have a real issue.
了解何时遇到真正的问题也很重要。
And so the body awareness thing, I think, is a gift to one's self.
因此，我认为，身体意识是给自己的礼物。
You can avoid a lot of costs, a lot of unnecessary medical interventions.
您可以避免很多费用和很多不必要的医疗干预。
You can know when it's time to take action with proper medical intervention.
您可以知道何时需要采取适当的医疗干预措施。
But also, it really allows you to be in life with people without being the person that's always complaining about stuff or is just difficult.
而且，它确实让你能够与人相处，而不是成为一个总是抱怨事情或只是困难的人。
I think a lot of people who are difficult are in pain, and they don't know how to resolve that pain.
我认为很多困难的人都处于痛苦之中，他们不知道如何解决这种痛苦。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And they think they have a problem with pain, so then they take pain medication, and that's a whole cycle.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：他们认为自己有疼痛问题，所以他们服用止痛药，这是一个完整的周期。
So, I just wanted to underscore kind of where we're headed here, it seems, again and again, is with what seems selfish is actually one of the most selfless things you can do.
所以，我只是想强调我们的前进方向，似乎一次又一次，看似自私的事情实际上是你能做的最无私的事情之一。
Let's talk about what you call "Unracking at 07:00."
我们来谈谈所谓的“07:00 开架”。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Tier one operator.
Andrew Huberman：一级运营商。
Former tier one operator.
前一级运营商。
The lingo.
行话。
So that...
所以说...
I'm guessing, is that unracking the weight?
我猜，这是在减轻体重吗？
That's when the workout starts.
那就是锻炼开始的时候。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Phone is off?
安德鲁·休伯曼：电话关机了？
DJ Shipley: Phone's on because we run an app on it.
DJ Shipley：电话已打开，因为我们在上面运行了一个应用程序。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
DJ Shipley: Because we have Vernon Griffith.
DJ Shipley：因为我们有弗农·格里菲斯。
Andrew Huberman: But you're not looking at text messages?
Andrew Huberman：但是你不看短信吗？
DJ Shipley: No.
DJ 希普利：不。
Andrew Huberman: And you're not shooting selfies of your calves and biceps?
Andrew Huberman：你不会拍小腿和二头肌的自拍照吗？
DJ Shipley: No.
DJ 希普利：不。
Andrew Huberman: Right.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对。
I point that out in semi-jest because I always joke that the first rep of every set now seems to be guys in the gym taking pictures of themselves.
我半开玩笑地指出这一点，因为我总是开玩笑说，现在每组的第一个代表似乎都是在健身房里给自己拍照的人。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: The last rep of every set seems to be guys taking pictures of themselves.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：每组的最后一次似乎都是人们给自己拍照。
So 07:00, so what's that workout look like?
07:00，那锻炼是什么样的？
You're doing it five days a week.
你每周做五天。
I know it's going to be different for different people, but you have this program that I really want to explore with you today about how to measure progress, and set standards, and meet new standards, higher standards.
我知道对于不同的人来说情况会有所不同，但是我今天真的想与大家探讨这个计划，了解如何衡量进展，设定标准，并满足新的标准，更高的标准。
What does that workout look like for you?
对你来说，这项锻炼是什么样的？
DJ Shipley: So I linked up with Vernon right when I was getting medically retired around 2019.
DJ Shipley：所以，当我在 2019 年左右因病退休时，我就与 Vernon 建立了联系。
I came back from a gnarly shoulder injury.
我从肩膀严重受伤中恢复过来。
I blew it.
我搞砸了。
I had a dislocation.
我脱臼了。
It came through my armpit, shredded out everything.
它穿过我的腋窝，撕碎了一切。
And I went from about 215 to about 180 pounds.
我的体重从 215 磅左右减到了 180 磅左右。
Got stuck in a rehab clinic in Bethesda, Maryland for 31 days in-patient, and I came out like death warmed over.
我在马里兰州贝塞斯达的一家康复诊所住院了 31 天，出来时感觉死亡已经结束了。
Worst I've ever been in my life.
我一生中经历过的最糟糕的事情。
Worst my mental health has ever been.
我的心理健康状况是有史以来最糟糕的。
I did not want to play the game anymore.
我不想再玩游戏了。
And Navy SEAL Foundation hooked you up with this physical rehabilitation program in Virginia Beach ran by a former SEAL, and Vernon was the lead strength conditioning coach.
海豹突击队基金会为您推荐了一项在弗吉尼亚海滩举办的体能康复计划，该计划由一名前海豹突击队员负责，弗农是首席体能教练。
And he was my coach.
他是我的教练。
And we walked in.
我们走进去。
We did full-body assessments.
我们做了全身评估。
And what's interesting about him is he took all your limitations and developed concepts and movements to establish confidence in that area.
他的有趣之处在于，他克服了你所有的局限性，并发展了概念和动作，以在该领域建立信心。
DJ Shipley: So when I came back, day one he's like, "Okay, let's try to hang from the bar." I looked right at him, "No." He's like, "What?" "No, I'm not hanging from that bar.
DJ Shipley：所以当我回来的第一天，他就说，“好吧，让我们试着挂在吧台上。”我直视他：“没有。”他说：“什么？” “不，我不会挂在那个酒吧上。
I'm done.
我完成了。
I've done more pull-ups than most people on the planet.
我做的引体向上比地球上大多数人都多。
My pull-up days are done, man.
我的引体向上日子已经结束了，伙计。
I'm not doing it again." He goes, "You gotta trust me." I was like, "Well, it's not going to happen on day one." Slowly but surely, I mean, he's at the point where he's holding my knees.
我不会再这样做了。”他说：“你必须相信我。”我当时想，“好吧，这不会在第一天发生。”慢慢地，但可以肯定的是，我的意思是，他已经到了他握住我膝盖的地步。
I can't even extend my arm overhead.
我什至无法将手臂伸过头顶。
I'm so-
我是这样的——
Andrew Huberman: That's humbling.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这真是令人谦卑。
For a guy that was a tier one operator, that's humbling.
对于一个曾经是一级运营商的人来说，这是令人羞愧的。
DJ Shipley: I was so bound up by fear that he was going to come...
DJ Shipley：我非常害怕他会来……
Because that was my first shoulder surgery, and if you've never had one, shoulder surgeries are the worst rehab I've ever had.
因为那是我第一次接受肩部手术，如果你从未做过肩部手术，那么肩部手术是我经历过的最糟糕的康复治疗。
And I've had a lot of them.
我已经有很多了。
The shoulder rehab was brutal, and I didn't want it to pop.
肩部康复是残酷的，我不想让它破裂。
And I'd extend, and I couldn't do it.
我想延长，但我做不到。
I couldn't do it.
我做不到。
And he's like, "You just gotta trust me, man.
他说：“你必须相信我，伙计。
Like, doctor cleared you.
就像，医生让你痊愈了。
The anchors have set.
锚已经固定。
Everything is there, but you cannot go through the rest of your life like this." He's like, "You're not even 40." He's like, "Do you want to go another 40 years without doing a pull-up?
一切都已经有了，但你不能就这样度过余生。”他说：“你还不到40岁。”他说：“你想再过 40 年不做引体向上吗？
You're going to have to trust me." He'd pick me up by the legs.
你必须相信我。”他会抓住我的腿把我抱起来。
I'd put my arm on there, and he'd slowly but surely start to extend me down until we got full range of motion.
我把手臂放在那里，他会慢慢地但肯定地开始将我向下延伸，直到我们得到充分的运动范围。
And we did that for days and weeks.
我们这样做了几天甚至几周。
Then we went to a band.
然后我们去了一个乐队。
Then we took the band off.
然后我们把乐队解散了。
"I just want you to hang.
“我只是想让你挂起来。
Now we're going to focus on going back up." And we built back to...
现在我们要集中精力恢复。”我们又回到了...
I mean, I can do sets of 25 pull-ups now because then-
我的意思是，我现在可以做 25 组引体向上，因为那时-
Andrew Huberman: You're pulling your weight, which is what right now?
Andrew Huberman：你正在尽自己的努力，这就是现在的情况？
DJ Shipley: I'm like 215.
DJ Shipley：我大概 215 岁。
Andrew Huberman: You're 6'1" and 215?
Andrew Huberman：你身高 6 英尺 1 英寸，身高 215 英寸？
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And you're doing sets of 20?
Andrew Huberman：你要做 20 组吗？
DJ Shipley: Yeah, 20, 25.
DJ Shipley：是的，20、25。
Andrew Huberman: Non-kip pull-up?
Andrew Huberman：非跳动引体向上？
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
And it's all bouncing back from him, but the whole program he did...
这一切都从他身上反弹回来，但他所做的整个计划......
Because I'm not a unicorn by any means, but I've had all the injuries that everybody else has had.
因为我无论如何都不是独角兽，但我受过其他人都受过的伤。
I've had double hip surgery, I've had double shoulder surgery, I've had my abdomen blown through a couple of times.
我做过双髋手术，做过双肩手术，腹部也被炸过几次。
I've had them all.
我已经全部拥有了。
I've had thumbs, I've had to rebuild my own structure-
我有拇指，我必须重建我自己的结构-
Andrew Huberman: Blown through, blown through, boom.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：吹了，吹了，繁荣。
DJ Shipley: I mean, just everything.
DJ Shipley：我的意思是，一切。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: When I got electrocuted, it blew out everything and we had to rebuild that entire thing.
DJ Shipley：当我触电时，一切都被毁了，我们必须重建整个东西。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: So all the guys that are in this process, if you're a SWAT team, a fireman on a SEAL team, anybody in between, we've all got injuries that become limitations, and we just avoid them.
DJ Shipley：所以所有参与这个过程的人，如果你是特警队、海豹突击队的消防员，或者介于两者之间的任何人，我们都会遇到伤病，这些伤病会成为限制，我们只是避免它们。
You can't avoid them forever, and this program is designed to get you back in shape.
您无法永远避免它们，该计划旨在帮助您恢复体形。
And it grows with you as you go, so every single week you're chasing numbers from the week before and pushing.
随着你的进步，它会随着你的成长而增长，所以每一周你都在追逐前一周的数字并推动。
On the days you don't have it, on the days you wake up and you're bound up just lacking motivation, we're going in with 100% of what we have to offer.
在你没有动力的日子里，在你醒来发现你缺乏动力的日子里，我们将提供 100% 的服务。
That might be 75%.
这可能是 75%。
I'm giving 100% of the 75% I have today.
我今天所拥有的 75% 中，我将付出 100%。
But Monday's a pull day from the floor, usually trap bar deadlifts, and we do those because of all the injuries.
但周一是地板上的拉力日，通常是斜方杠硬拉，我们之所以这么做是因为受伤了。
I've got a really long torso.
我的躯干很长。
It puts my back at a weird precarious situation, so we do trap bar deadlifts.
这让我的背部处于一种奇怪的危险境地，所以我们做斜杠硬拉。
We do those, a lot of pull-up work, a lot of grip work, a lot of core stability stuff.
我们做这些，大量的引体向上工作，大量的握力工作，大量的核心稳定性工作。
DJ Shipley: Tuesday's a press day, heavy upper body, bench, incline, that kind of stuff.
DJ Shipley：周二是新闻发布会，上半身很重，长凳，倾斜，诸如此类。
Wednesday's an upper body, lower body disassociation.
周三是上半身、下半身分离。
So we get the upper body moving in one direction, the lower body moving the other.
所以我们让上半身向一个方向移动，下半身向另一个方向移动。
A lot of core-
很多核心——
Andrew Huberman: You got any example of that?
Andrew Huberman：你有什么例子吗？
DJ Shipley: We'll do a lot of banded work.
DJ Shipley：我们会做很多乐队工作。
We'll drop down to a knee, like almost in a shooting position, and we'll do cross body pulls with bands, resistance training, but just-
我们会跪下，就像几乎处于射击位置一样，我们会用弹力带进行交叉身体拉动，阻力训练，但只是——
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So rotational stuff and sort of anti-rotation stuff?
Andrew Huberman：旋转的东西和反旋转的东西？
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Yep.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Okay.
好的。
DJ Shipley: On that day, we'll do plyo stuff, box jumps, height, distance, and broad jump, that kind of stuff.
DJ Shipley：那天，我们会做强化训练、跳箱、高度、距离和跳远，诸如此类的训练。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Farmer's carry, walks, and all the stuff, just trying to connect all the dots.
DJ Shipley：农民的搬运、行走以及所有的东西，只是试图将所有的点连接起来。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Thursday is the most brutal leg day you've ever had, and it's amazing.
DJ Shipley：周四是你经历过的最残酷的腿部日，这太棒了。
We got a belt squat machine.
我们有一台腰带深蹲机。
So anybody who walks in, regardless of the injuries and limitations you have, we have equipment to accommodate that.
因此，任何走进来的人，无论您是否受伤和受到限制，我们都有设备来适应。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
And when you say brutal leg day...
当你说残酷的腿部日时......
DJ Shipley: It just-
DJ Shipley：它只是-
Andrew Huberman: I have a belt squat.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我有腰带深蹲。
I love that thing.
我喜欢那个东西。
I love throwing a lot of weight on that thing.
我喜欢在这件事上施加很大的压力。
It's nice, it doesn't load the spine up, but yeah, I like to think it's brutal.
这很好，它不会给脊柱带来负担，但是，是的，我喜欢认为这很残酷。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Can you describe?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你能描述一下吗？
Are you talking about like an hour and a half, two hours of low weight-
你是说一个半小时、两个小时的低体重吗？
DJ Shipley: It's usually from seven to nine.
DJ Shipley：通常是七点到九点。
DJ Shipley: High weight, pretty high repetitions.
DJ Shipley：重量大，重复次数相当高。
Andrew Huberman: So high weight, high repetitions?
Andrew Huberman：如此高的重量、高的重复次数？
DJ Shipley: Trying to.
DJ 希普利：正在努力。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: Always trying to push, but a lot of single leg movements, Bulgarian split squats.
DJ Shipley：总是尝试推，但有很多单腿动作，保加利亚分腿深蹲。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: A lot of lunges, a lot of lunges with heavy weight.
DJ Shipley：大量弓步，大量大重量弓步。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: 70 pounds in each hand, for me, that's a lot of weight.
DJ Shipley：每只手 70 磅，对我来说，这是很大的重量。
Andrew Huberman: So not calf raises, leg curls.
Andrew Huberman：所以不是提踵，而是腿弯举。
DJ Shipley: No.
DJ 希普利：不。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: But some days we'll do a feel-good day.
DJ Shipley：但有些日子我们会感觉良好。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Like some days we'll come in, he'll take a pulse of the whole room, and he'll go...
DJ Shipley：就像有一天我们会进来一样，他会测量整个房间的脉搏，然后他就会走......
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: We're all going to hit the same muscle groups.
DJ Shipley：我们都会锻炼相同的肌肉群。
We're just going to do it more traditional.
我们只是要做更传统的事情。
So we're going to do hamstring curls, leg extensions.
所以我们要做腿筋弯举和腿部伸展运动。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: We're going to do belt squats, we're going to do pulsing lunges, really just pump the blood flow, and just chase a really good pump.
DJ Shipley：我们要做腰带深蹲，我们要做脉冲弓步，只是泵血，追求真正好的泵血。
Everybody loves doing that.
每个人都喜欢这样做。
And Fridays are really...
而周五真的是...
It's a feel-good day.
这真是一个自我感觉良好的一天。
It's an arm day.
今天是手臂日。
We'll do some shoulders, some accessory work, and then we add in sprints in between, probably two to three days a week.
我们会做一些肩部训练和一些辅助训练，然后我们在中间添加冲刺训练，大概每周两到三天。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: 200 meter repeats, 300 meter repeats.
DJ Shipley：200 米重复、300 米重复。
Andrew Huberman: Done where in the workout?
Andrew Huberman：训练在哪里完成？
In between sets?
在两组之间？
DJ Shipley: At the end.
DJ 希普利：最后。
Andrew Huberman: At the end?
安德鲁·休伯曼：最后呢？
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
We always save it at the end, and we always did that with military, too.
我们总是在最后保存它，我们也总是在军事上这样做。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It always ends with a run.
DJ Shipley：总是以跑步结束。
And I've tried every combination, doing sprints, pre and post, and it really just zaps the workout for me.
我尝试了每一种组合，进行冲刺、赛前和赛后，但它确实让我的锻炼大打折扣。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, Pavel Tsatsouline, you know, the Pavel Tsatsouline sat in that chair right where you're at now and said, if your goal is hypertrophy and you're going to come into a pumping workout, doesn't really matter if you do cardio first or last, but if you're serious about strength and performance and form, then do your cardio after, if at all.
Andrew Huberman：是的，Pavel Tsatsouline，你知道，Pavel Tsatsouline 坐在你现在所在的椅子上，他说，如果你的目标是增肌，并且你要进行抽水锻炼，那么你先做有氧运动还是最后做有氧运动并不重要，但如果你认真对待力量、表现和形式，那么之后再做有氧运动，如果有的话。
Because a lot of times those kettlebell workouts or some of these leg workouts, they're not, "cardio", but they definitely get heart rate up in a serious way.
因为很多时候这些壶铃锻炼或一些腿部锻炼，它们不是“有氧运动”，但它们肯定会严重提高心率。
DJ Shipley: So on Wednesday, if we're doing a sprint workout, it might be 10 by 40, 50 meter sprints.
DJ Shipley：周三，如果我们进行短跑训练，可能是 10 x 40、50 米的短跑。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Right?
DJ 希普利：对吗？
Nothing crazy.
没什么疯狂的。
We'll do that at the very beginning, get the fast twitch muscle fibers going, and then we'll do whatever the normal Wednesday workout is.
我们将从一开始就这样做，让快肌纤维活动起来，然后我们将进行周三正常的锻炼。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And then we go to the flat range every Wednesday.
DJ Shipley：然后我们每周三都会进入平坦范围。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: So we train.
DJ Shipley：所以我们训练。
We bring him out too, so all the stance, the grip, the presentation, everything we talk about in a tactical setting, he's there with us.
我们也把他带了出来，所以所有的姿势、握力、演示，以及我们在战术环境中谈论的一切，他都在我们身边。
So when I talk about flexing your right glute to add stability to a stable shooting platform, he's there driving home, "This is why it's important.
因此，当我谈到弯曲右臀以增加稳定射击平台的稳定性时，他正在开车回家，“这就是为什么它很重要。
Think big toe down, drive your heel down." So I mean, he's as much of a coach as I am on the flat range, but he can connect the dots so well, and that's why I love him, is he's not going to let you take that limitation and then live it forever.
想想大脚趾向下，脚后跟向下。”所以我的意思是，他和我一样是平地训练场上的教练，但他可以很好地将各个点连接起来，这就是我爱他的原因，因为他不会让你接受这种限制，然后永远生活下去。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: You don't want to be like that, and it doesn't help that he's bigger, stronger, faster than everybody else.
DJ Shipley：你不想成为那样的人，而且他比其他人更大、更强、更快也无济于事。
So you've always got a good lifting buddy to kind of chase.
所以你总是有一个很好的举重伙伴来追逐。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: He always pushes you.
DJ Shipley：他总是鞭策你。
But he's so good at navigating human terrain, because some days I'll walk in and whatever's happened over the week, he'll see me in the morning, he'll look at me like, "How we holding up?" I'm like, "100%." "Yeah, you ain't...
但他非常擅长驾驭人类的地形，因为有时候我会走进去，无论一周内发生了什么，他都会在早上看到我，他会看着我，就像在说：“我们坚持得怎么样？”我想，“100%”。 “是啊，你不是...
Come over here.
过来吧。
What's going on?" I'll talk to him, he's like, "We'll shake it all out.
发生了什么事？”我会和他谈谈，他说，“我们会把一切都解决掉。
We've got two hours here, just us, nothing else matters.
我们在这里只有两个小时，只有我们自己，其他都不重要。
Let's just focus on this." And I find myself pacing a lot, so in between sets I'll block out everything else.
让我们只关注这一点。”我发现自己经常踱步，所以在两组之间我会屏蔽掉其他一切。
I'm not thinking about social, I'm not thinking about my wife, not thinking about the business.
我不考虑社交，不考虑妻子，不考虑生意。
I'm thinking about putting myself in the best mental spot to pull that off the floor at 100% with no distractions.
我正在考虑让自己处于最佳的精神状态，以 100% 的状态完成任务，不受任何干扰。
And I think that's why I like it so much, because it allows me to isolate my thoughts.
我想这就是我如此喜欢它的原因，因为它让我能够孤立自己的想法。
Nothing else matters.
其他都不重要。
You don't matter.
你没关系。
This doesn't matter, just that movement.
这不重要，重要的是那个动作。
Let me get through that to the best of my ability.
让我尽我最大的能力来解决这个问题。
Set it down, recock, walk around, get ready for the next one.
放下它，重新拉紧，四处走动，为下一个做好准备。
Here we go.
我们开始吧。
DJ Shipley: Eight reps, I'm going to put so much intent behind this pull that if I get eight or 12, it doesn't matter.
DJ Shipley： 8 次，我会在这次拉力背后投入如此多的精力，如果我得到 8 次或 12 次，那并不重要。
Every single one is all out.
每一个都已经出局了。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And Dorian Yates talks about it.
DJ Shipley：Dorian Yates 也谈到了这一点。
Intensity is what really drives him.
强度才是真正驱动他的动力。
Andrew Huberman: Right.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对。
DJ Shipley: I really try to drive intent behind everything I do now.
DJ Shipley：我真的尽力在我现在所做的一切背后推动意图。
And yeah, he's a huge...
是的，他是一个巨大的...
DJ Shipley: Man, I can't tell you how many times he's brought me back, I mean, the worst injuries you can imagine.
DJ Shipley：伙计，我无法告诉你他带我回来多少次，我的意思是，你能想象到的最严重的伤害。
And he's there every single time, and I think that's why so many people get on with it, because they see the injuries you've gone through and it's like, "Well, you can still perform at a high level." "Only because I'm..." I don't want to say I'm even ego-driven.
他每次都在那里，我想这就是为什么这么多人坚持下去的原因，因为他们看到你所经历的伤病，就像，“好吧，你仍然可以发挥高水平。” “只是因为我……”我什至不想说我是自我驱动的。
I've been so ingrained in the sitting with routine that it doesn't matter what injuries I've had.
我已经习惯了坐着，所以无论我受过什么伤都没关系。
I mean, I come out and...
我的意思是，我出来后...
We've got pictures of me in there in double slings.
我们有我穿着双吊带的照片。
Like when I got electrocuted, double slings.
就像我触电一样，双吊带。
I can't even tie my shoes; he's tying my shoes.
我什至不会系鞋带；他正在帮我系鞋带。
Like he's putting the belt squat on me.
就像他把深蹲带绑在我身上一样。
I'm squatting down, he's clipping it in, he's unracking it, the entire thing.
我蹲下来，他把它夹进去，他把它拆开，整个事情。
He's my guy.
他是我的人。
Andrew Huberman: Tell us his first and last name.
安德鲁·休伯曼：告诉我们他的名字和姓氏。
DJ Shipley: Vernon Griffith.
DJ 希普利：弗农·格里菲斯。
Andrew Huberman: And you met him when you were injured, right?
Andrew Huberman：你受伤时遇见了他，对吧？
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And he's a former operator as well?
Andrew Huberman：他也是一名前接线员？
DJ Shipley: He's not.
DJ Shipley：他不是。
So his business partner was a former operator.
所以他的商业伙伴是前经营者。
He was actually in the Air Force.
他实际上在空军。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And transitioned out, got his strength and conditioning, all his quals.
DJ Shipley：然后转型了，得到了他的力量和体能，以及他所有的素质。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And he's got such an interesting look to mobility, impact...
DJ Shipley：他对机动性、影响力的看法非常有趣......
And the high-level athletes that come through him, and that's really what it is.
以及通过他培养出来的高水平运动员，这就是事实。
He gets big guys tricked into doing mobility and liking it because nobody wants to do mobility.
他让大人物被骗去做流动性并喜欢它，因为没有人愿意做流动性。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It's not a sexy thing to do.
DJ Shipley：这不是一件性感的事情。
We get first round draft picks that are pouring through that gym all week long.
我们得到的第一轮选秀权整周都在健身房里涌来。
And you see them because it's the truth.
你看到它们是因为这是事实。
We're trying to keep you at a super high level as long as humanly possible.
我们正在努力让您尽可能长时间地保持超高水平。
The average guy that plays in the NFL, what, three years?
普通人在 NFL 打球三年？
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: But I'm trying to keep you in there for 12.
DJ Shipley：但我想让你留在那里 12 个小时。
How are we going to do it?
我们要怎么做呢？
You have to maintain that vessel at a super high level because all these young kids are trying to knock you off the team, and then the reality of the sport is trying to knock you off the team as well.
你必须将这艘船保持在超高水平，因为所有这些年轻的孩子都试图将你从团队中剔除，然后这项运动的现实也试图将你从团队中剔除。
So we got to keep you really, really mobile and healthy.
因此，我们必须让您保持真正的活动能力和健康。
And I've never seen anybody that can connect dots better than that guy.
我从来没有见过任何人比那个人更能把点连起来。
He's an absolute lifesaver.
他绝对是救星。
Andrew Huberman: We've known for a long time that there are things that we can do to improve our sleep, and that includes things that we can take, things like magnesium threonate, theanine, chamomile extract, and glycine, along with lesser-known things like saffron and valerian root.
Andrew Huberman：我们很早就知道我们可以采取一些措施来改善睡眠，其中包括我们可以服用的东西，例如苏糖酸镁、茶氨酸、洋甘菊提取物和甘氨酸，以及一些不太为人所知的东西，例如藏红花和缬草根。
These are all clinically supported ingredients that can help you fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up feeling more refreshed.
这些都是经过临床支持的成分，可以帮助您入睡、保持睡眠状态，并且醒来时感觉更加神清气爽。
I'm excited to share that our longtime sponsor, AG1, just created a new product called AGZ, a nightly drink designed to help you get better sleep and have you wake up feeling super refreshed.
我很高兴与大家分享，我们的长期赞助商 AG1 刚刚创造了一款名为 AGZ 的新产品，这是一种夜间饮料，旨在帮助您获得更好的睡眠，让您醒来时感觉神清气爽。
Over the past few years, I've worked with the team at AG1 to help create this new AGZ formula.
在过去的几年里，我与 AG1 的团队合作，帮助创建了这个新的 AGZ 公式。
It has the best sleep-supporting compounds in exactly the right ratios in one easy-to-drink mix.
它在一种易于饮用的混合物中以完全正确的比例含有最好的睡眠支持化合物。
This removes all the complexity of trying to forage the vast landscape of supplements focused on sleep and figuring out the right dosages and which ones to take for you.
这消除了尝试寻找大量针对睡眠的补充剂以及确定正确剂量和适合您服用的补充剂的所有复杂性。
AGZ is, to my knowledge, the most comprehensive sleep supplement on the market.
据我所知，AGZ 是市场上最全面的睡眠补充剂。
Andrew Huberman: I take it 30 to 60 minutes before sleep, it's delicious by the way, and it dramatically increases both the quality and the depth of my sleep.
Andrew Huberman：我在睡前 30 到 60 分钟服用它，顺便说一句，它很美味，而且它极大地提高了我的睡眠质量和深度。
I know that both from my subjective experience of my sleep, and because I track my sleep.
我知道这一点，既来自我对睡眠的主观体验，也因为我跟踪了我的睡眠。
I'm excited for everyone to try this new AGZ formulation and to enjoy the benefits of better sleep.
我很高兴每个人都能尝试这种新的 AGZ 配方并享受更好睡眠的好处。
AGZ is available in chocolate, chocolate mint, and mixed berry flavors.
AGZ 有巧克力、巧克力薄荷和混合浆果口味。
And as I mentioned before, they're all extremely delicious.
正如我之前提到的，它们都非常美味。
My favorite of the three has to be, I think, chocolate mint, but I really like them all.
我认为这三者中我最喜欢的是巧克力薄荷，但我真的很喜欢它们。
If you'd like to try AGZ, go to drinkagz.com/huberman to get a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AGZ，请访问 Drinkagz.com/huberman 以获得特别优惠。
Again, that's drinkagz.com/huberman.
再说一遍，这是 Drinkagz.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep.
今天的节目也是八觉给我们带来的。
Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.
August Sleep 生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能的智能床垫套。
One of the best ways to ensure a great night's sleep is to make sure that the temperature of your sleeping environment is correct.
确保一夜好眠的最佳方法之一是确保睡眠环境的温度正确。
And that's because in order to fall and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about one to three degrees.
这是因为为了入睡并保持深度睡眠，您的体温实际上必须下降约一到三度。
Andrew Huberman: And in order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature actually has to increase by about one to three degrees.
Andrew Huberman：为了醒来时感觉神清气爽、精力充沛，你的体温实际上必须升高约一到三度。
Eight Sleep automatically regulates the temperature of your bed throughout the night according to your unique needs.
八睡眠会根据您的独特需求自动调节整个晚上的床温。
Eight Sleep has just launched their latest model, the Pod 5, and the Pod 5 has several new important features.
八睡眠刚刚推出了他们的最新型号 Pod 5，Pod 5 有几个新的重要功能。
One of these new features is called Auto Pilot.
这些新功能之一称为自动驾驶仪。
Auto Pilot is an AI engine that learns your sleep patterns to adjust the temperature of your sleeping environment across different sleep stages.
Auto Pilot 是一款人工智能引擎，可以学习您的睡眠模式，从而调整不同睡眠阶段的睡眠环境温度。
It also elevates your head if you're snoring, and it makes other shifts to optimize your sleep.
如果您打鼾，它还会抬高您的头部，并进行其他转换以优化您的睡眠。
The base on the Pod 5 also has an integrated speaker that syncs to the Eight Sleep app and can play audio to support relaxation and recovery.
Pod 5 的底座还配有一个集成扬声器，可与八睡眠应用程序同步，并可以播放音频以支持放松和恢复。
The audio catalog includes several NSDR, non-sleep deep rest, scripts that I worked on with Eight Sleep to record.
音频目录包括几个 NSDR、非睡眠深度休息以及我与“八睡眠”一起录制的脚本。
If you're not familiar, NSDR involves listening to an audio script that walks you through a deep body relaxation combined with some very simple breathing exercises.
如果您不熟悉，NSDR 涉及聆听音频脚本，该音频脚本将引导您进行深度身体放松，并结合一些非常简单的呼吸练习。
Andrew Huberman: It's an extremely powerful tool that anyone can benefit from the first time and every time.
Andrew Huberman：这是一个极其强大的工具，任何人第一次和每次都可以从中受益。
If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, go to eightsleep.com/huberman to get up to $350 off the new Pod 5.
如果您想尝试八睡眠，请访问八睡眠.com/huberman，新款 Pod 5 最高可享受 350 美元优惠。
Eight Sleep ships to many countries worldwide, including Mexico and the UAE.
八号睡眠船运往世界各地的许多国家，包括墨西哥和阿联酋。
Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $350.
同样，访问八睡眠.com/huberman 最多可节省 350 美元。
Andrew Huberman: The way you describe him and your interactions with him, it almost takes on a sort of a mythical-like quality.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你描述他的方式以及你与他的互动，几乎呈现出一种神话般的品质。
I mean, like we could be talking about a movie, but this is real.
我的意思是，就像我们在谈论一部电影一样，但这是真实的。
And when we'll talk about just how real it is, where some very real things have happened to you by virtue of the high-risk, high-consequence career that you undertook.
当我们谈论它是多么真实时，由于你从事的高风险、高后果的职业，一些非常真实的事情发生在你身上。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But when you hear about this person who's able to bring back a high performer and then get him to exceed his previous notions of what he could do under conditions of duress and hopelessness, this is real life though.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：但是当你听说这个人能够带回一个高绩效的人，然后让他超越他之前在胁迫和绝望的条件下可以做的事情的想法时，这就是现实生活。
This is not Star Wars.
这不是星球大战。
This is real life.
这就是现实生活。
And so without ever having met him, I can feel the respect, and the admiration, and the gratitude you have for him.
因此，即使没有见过他，我也能感受到你对他的尊重、钦佩和感激。
And I'm sure everyone else can, too.
我相信其他人也可以。
This is the stuff of mythology, but it's real.
这是神话中的东西，但却是真实的。
So, here's what I know about you.
这就是我对你的了解。
You live in Virginia Beach.
你住在弗吉尼亚海滩。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: At one point you were interested in skateboarding and partook in skateboarding.
Andrew Huberman：您曾经对滑板感兴趣并参与过滑板运动。
At some point you decided to become a Navy SEAL.
在某个时刻，你决定成为一名海豹突击队队员。
At some point you got electrocuted.
在某个时刻，你触电了。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Fill in the blanks for us.
Andrew Huberman：为我们填补空白。
DJ Shipley: Yeah, man.
DJ 希普利：是的，伙计。
I was born in San Diego, California.
我出生在加利福尼亚州圣地亚哥。
My dad was a SEAL.
我父亲是一名海豹突击队员。
My mom was in the Navy.
我妈妈在海军。
So when my dad graduated, my mom was nine months pregnant with me.
所以当我爸爸毕业时，我妈妈已经怀着我九个月了。
So his whole first four years at the West Coast SEAL Teams, I was one of the only kids there.
所以他在西海岸海豹突击队的头四年里，我是那里唯一的孩子之一。
So kind of grew up in the culture, really ingrained into it.
所以在这种文化中长大，真的根深蒂固。
My first bottle-
我的第一瓶——
Andrew Huberman: On Coronado?
安德鲁·休伯曼：在科罗纳多？
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
It's my first bottle, I'm wearing a SEAL Team One onesie.
这是我的第一瓶，我穿着海豹突击队连体衣。
Andrew Huberman: You literally were raised on Coronado.
Andrew Huberman：你确实是在科罗纳多长大的。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
So I did that.
所以我就这么做了。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: We moved to the East Coast.
DJ Shipley：我们搬到了东海岸。
He got transitioned over to the East Coast.
他被转移到东海岸。
I grew up the rest of my time there, fell in love with skateboarding.
我在那里长大，并爱上了滑板。
That's all I wanted to do; I wanted to go pro.
这就是我想做的；我想成为职业选手。
Got into a fight with the old man around 15 years old, something like that, and he signed me up for summer school to graduate early.
和15岁左右的老头打架之类的，他给我报名了暑期学校，以便提前毕业。
So I graduated at 17, hit delayed entry program, joined the Navy a month later.
所以我 17 岁毕业，参加了延迟入职计划，一个月后加入了海军。
Andrew Huberman: Was that a contentious interaction?
Andrew Huberman：这是一次有争议的互动吗？
DJ Shipley: Oh, yeah.
DJ 希普利：哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman: Skateboarding was clearly not the right career for you.
Andrew Huberman：滑板显然不适合你。
I mean, I'm sure you would have done exceedingly well there, but having grown up a bit in that culture and also knowing a bit about the culture, you eventually decided on...
我的意思是，我确信你在那里会做得非常好，但在那种文化中长大了一点，也了解了一些文化，你最终决定......
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It's hard to say which one is the better career choice.
Andrew Huberman：很难说哪一个是更好的职业选择。
One is definitely more life-threatening in many ways.
从很多方面来说，其中之一肯定更具生命危险。
But you just said, "Okay, like, you're a Navy SEAL, you want me to be a Navy SEAL, so I'm going to hang it up?"
但你只是说，“好吧，就像，你是一名海豹突击队队员，你希望我成为一名海豹突击队队员，所以我要把它挂掉？”
DJ Shipley: It was always in the back of your mind, like that was always what you thought you were going to do.
DJ Shipley：它总是在你的脑海里，就像你一直认为你要做的那样。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: But at 15 years old, in your mind, you can do them both.
DJ Shipley：但是在 15 岁的时候，在你看来，你可以两者兼得。
You're like, "Oh, I can be a professional skateboarder, and then I can be a Navy SEAL later." You don't realize what it actually takes to do it even though you grew up in the culture.
你会说，“哦，我可以成为一名职业滑板手，然后我可以成为一名海豹突击队队员。”即使你是在这种文化中长大的，你也不会意识到要做到这一点实际上需要什么。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: So when that happened, the other towers had just fell, I was 17 years old, delayed entry program, straight out to Coronado, got through SEAL training, came back to the East Coast where I've been essentially my whole life, and, yeah, joined the Navy in 2002 and I got medically retired in 2019, right around 17 years.
DJ Shipley：所以当这种情况发生时，其他塔楼刚刚倒塌，我当时 17 岁，推迟了入职计划，直接前往科罗纳多，完成了海豹突击队训练，回到东海岸，在那里我基本上度过了一生，是的，我于 2002 年加入了海军，我于 2019 年因病退休，大约 17 年。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I think it was 16 years and 10 months, or something like that.
DJ Shipley：我想那是 16 年零 10 个月，或者类似的时间。
Andrew Huberman: Can I ask you about BUD/S?
Andrew Huberman：我可以问你关于 BUD/S 的事情吗？
A lot of people have heard of BUD/S, and they understand that it has a hell week with minimal, if any, sleep, maybe an hour or two tops, but probably not even that.
很多人都听说过 BUD/S，他们知道这是地狱般的一周，睡眠时间极少（如果有的话），最多可能是一两个小时，但可能连这个都没有。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: How hard was BUD/S relative to other things that you did in the teams?
Andrew Huberman：相对于你在团队中所做的其他事情来说，BUD/S 有多难？
I've heard people say it was the hardest thing they ever did.
我听人们说这是他们做过的最困难的事情。
I've heard some people say it was extremely hard, but not nearly as difficult as some aspect of, like, guys who hate the jungle and humidity are like, "That was worse."
我听有些人说这非常困难，但在某些方面并不像那些讨厌丛林和潮湿的人那样困难，“那更糟糕。”
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And you never know if people are joking around.
Andrew Huberman：你永远不知道人们是否在开玩笑。
Did you learn a lot in BUD/S about yourself?
您在 BUD/S 学到了很多关于自己的知识吗？
DJ Shipley: If you can make it through BUD/S, you can do anything.
DJ Shipley：如果你能通过 BUD/S，你就可以做任何事。
It is such a brutal program, and I just...
这是一个如此残酷的计划，而我只是......
A hell week just secured...
地狱般的一周刚刚过去……
And I saw a bunch of the guys, took them out to dinner the other night, and I was explaining to a group of civilians that were out there with them, like their parents, like, "You guys all see it.
那天晚上我看到了一群人，带他们出去吃饭，我向一群和他们在一起的平民解释，就像他们的父母一样，“你们都看到了。
Every single person does that pipeline." It's not just BUD/S.
每个人都在做这条管道。”这不仅仅是 BUD/S。
It's the Q course for Green Berets, it's RIP for the Rangers, MARSOC selection.
这是绿色贝雷帽的 Q 课程，是游骑兵队的安息，MARSOC 的选拔。
Every single kid that's doing that selection program is the biggest deal in his hometown, the biggest thing in his high school.
每一个参加选拔计划的孩子都是他家乡最重要的事情，也是他高中最重要的事情。
Everybody knows he's going, and the amount of external pressure that's riding on that kid, unless you've done it, you have no idea.
每个人都知道他要去，以及那个孩子承受的外部压力有多大，除非你已经做到了，否则你不知道。
You just don't.
你只是不这样做。
It's like playing D1 college ball.
这就像打 D1 大学球一样。
Everyone in your family is expecting you to be a pro.
你家里的每个人都希望你成为一名职业选手。
They're expecting you to be in the NFL.
他们期待你加入 NFL。
And if you don't get drafted, it's like, "Oh my God." It's so much pressure on you, and it's the same way.
如果你没有被选中，那就像是，“天哪。”你的压力太大了，也是一样的。
Andrew Huberman: And it's self-selection because people quit.
Andrew Huberman：这是自我选择，因为人们会放弃。
DJ Shipley: It is.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: In general, they're not asked to leave, although that can happen.
Andrew Huberman：一般来说，他们不会被要求离开，尽管这种情况可能会发生。
DJ Shipley: Exactly.
DJ 希普利：没错。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So if somebody doesn't make it through BUD/S, it means they quit.
Andrew Huberman：所以如果有人没有通过 BUD/S，就意味着他们退出了。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Pretty much.
差不多了。
And it's a lot of pressure, right?
而且压力很大，对吧？
The GWOT just kicking off, all the instructors were coming back from Afghanistan, and they were larger than life.
GWOT 刚刚开始，所有教官都从阿富汗回来，他们的表现都非常出色。
I mean, you really looked up to them.
我的意思是，你真的很尊敬他们。
And I was just very fortunate that I grew up in the culture, and I knew a lot of the guys going in, so I knew what the in-state was.
我很幸运，我是在这种文化中长大的，而且我认识很多进入其中的人，所以我知道州内是什么。
Most of these kids are from Biloxi, Mississippi.
这些孩子大多数来自密西西比州比洛克西。
You've never even seen a Navy SEAL in real life until you showed up here.
在您出现在这里之前，您在现实生活中甚至从未见过海豹突击队。
I grew up with one.
我和一个人一起长大。
All my family friends were SEALs.
我所有的家人朋友都是海豹突击队员。
We didn't have a single civilian friend growing up.
我们成长过程中没有一个平民朋友。
The only thing I'd been around were commandos, so...
我周围唯一的人就是突击队员，所以...
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I felt really natural around that environment, but I knew it was going to suck.
DJ Shipley：我在那种环境下感觉很自然，但我知道这会很糟糕。
I just knew it was.
我只知道是这样。
Andrew Huberman: Did your dad have you running with him and doing push-ups and things like that at home?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你爸爸有让你和他一起跑步、做俯卧撑之类的吗？
DJ Shipley: No.
DJ 希普利：不。
Andrew Huberman: Or was it mow the lawn and then go skateboarding, you know?
Andrew Huberman：或者是修剪草坪然后去玩滑板，你知道吗？
DJ Shipley: Mow the lawn and go skateboarding and then as we transitioned, we got closer, it was turn it on, download the Stew Smith "Guide to Navy SEAL" prep, and did that like everybody else did.
DJ Shipley：修剪草坪，去玩滑板，然后当我们过渡时，我们更接近了，打开它，下载 Stew Smith“海豹突击队指南”准备，然后像其他人一样做。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And it's a phenomenal program for anybody who's trying to go.
DJ Shipley：对于任何想要去的人来说，这都是一个非凡的节目。
But I was so young, I was so immature, didn't have a cellphone, didn't have a car.
但我当时太年轻，太不成熟，没有手机，没有车。
I lived on the barracks and the only thing you had to do was get through the program.
我住在军营里，你唯一要做的就是完成这个计划。
But what I will say, is the 17-year-old me that showed up in 2002, if I would try to be a Navy SEAL in 2025, they wouldn't even take me.
但我要说的是，2002 年出现的 17 岁的我，如果我想在 2025 年成为一名海豹突击队队员，他们甚至不会接受我。
My performance scores, like you have to pass a screen test, push-ups, pull-ups, run, swim, the whole thing.
我的表现得分，就像你必须通过屏幕测试一样，俯卧撑、引体向上、跑步、游泳，所有的事情。
Your scores now have to be so competitive, they wouldn't have even taken me.
你现在的成绩一定很有竞争力，他们根本不会录取我。
Andrew Huberman: Oh, so the standards have changed?
Andrew Huberman：哦，那么标准已经改变了？
DJ Shipley: The standards are the same, but the people going through the program are so better prepared, they wouldn't even take you.
DJ Shipley：标准是一样的，但是参加这个项目的人准备得更好，他们甚至不会带你去。
So if you're not 120 push-ups, 120...
所以如果你不是120个俯卧撑，120...
They don't even look at you.
他们甚至不看你一眼。
Like for me, I basically barely scratched through.
就像我一样，我基本上是勉强通过的。
I was a strong swimmer, but technique wasn't my thing.
我是一名游泳健将，但技术不是我的强项。
And until you take the test, you don't realize how hard it is, and I got through it, and I went on to BUD/S and I was successful, but I was by no means a star athlete.
在你参加考试之前，你不会意识到它有多难，我通过了它，然后我继续参加了 BUD/S，我取得了成功，但我绝不是一个明星运动员。
And you have guys, you know, Coleman Ruiz, Naval Academy.
还有海军学院的科尔曼·鲁伊斯（Coleman Ruiz）。
They are freaks.
他们是怪人。
They're phenoms.
他们是天才。
They are professional athletes.
他们是职业运动员。
And there you are, 6'1", 145 pounds, pot-smoking skateboarder.
这就是你，身高 6 英尺 1 英寸、体重 145 磅、吸大麻的滑板手。
We are not on the same level.
我们不在同一水平线上。
But mentally, you couldn't mess with me.
但在精神上，你不能惹我。
I didn't care.
我不在乎。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Like we're getting surf tortured, and you'd watch these guys who were just these studs get up and quit, and you're like, "It's not going to stop." And I felt like I always had the inside scoop, like, "If you think this is going to end, it's not." My dad did a lot of diving.
DJ Shipley：就像我们在冲浪中受到折磨一样，你会看到这些家伙站起来然后退出，你会想，“这不会停止。”我觉得我总是掌握内幕消息，比如，“如果你认为这会结束，但事实并非如此。”我爸爸经常潜水。
I was like, "I've seen the conditions; they dive in breaking through the ice.
我当时想，“我已经看到了条件；他们潜入破冰区。
Like, it is only going to get worse, dude.
就像，情况只会变得更糟，伙计。
If this phases you, this is not the program for you." And I was right.
如果你处于这个阶段，那么这不是适合你的计划。”我是对的。
If that phases you, the SEAL Team's going to chew you alive.
如果这让你陷入困境，海豹突击队就会把你活活嚼烂。
So not everybody should make it through that program.
因此，并不是每个人都应该通过该计划。
I was just fortunate enough that...
我只是很幸运...
Just good enough to get by, and maturity came later, but BUD/S was definitely not the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
勉强过得去，成熟后来也来了，但 BUD/S 绝对不是我做过的最难的事情。
At the time, it was.
当时，确实如此。
And when you get through it and you see all the...
当你经历它时，你会看到所有...
I mean, you start with 200 and something people, you graduate less than 20.
我的意思是，你从 200 人开始，毕业时还不到 20 人。
It's 200 of the most physically capable people of that year in the United States Navy, and they couldn't make it.
这是美国海军当年体力最强的200人，但他们没能成功。
Andrew Huberman: Did any of the people that not made it through as well as who made it through surprise you?
Andrew Huberman：那些没有成功的人和成功的人有没有让你感到惊讶？
For not making it through or making it through?
是因为没有通过还是通过了？
DJ Shipley: Not making it through, for sure.
DJ Shipley：肯定不会成功。
I mean, all the guys that...
我的意思是，所有这些人...
You've been around them.
你一直在他们身边。
Andrew Huberman: The Captain Americas.
安德鲁·休伯曼：美国队长。
Yeah.
是的。
DJ Shipley: Navy SEALs have a certain look.
DJ Shipley：海豹突击队有特定的外观。
They have a certain mystique, a certain aura, and they do in training too.
他们有一定的神秘感、一定的光环，在训练中也是如此。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It's not like you just develop that.
DJ Shipley：这并不是你自己开发的。
You've had it your whole life.
你一生都经历过这样的事。
And there were definitely guys you'd look at that looked like Dolph Lundgren from "Rocky 4." You'd look at him, you're like, "Oh, that dude is definitely gonna make it." He's gone in 20 minutes.
你肯定会看到一些看起来像《洛奇 4》中的杜夫·龙格尔的人。你看着他，你会想，“哦，那家伙肯定会成功的。” 20分钟后他就走了。
You're like, "How?
你会说，“怎么样？
He passed everything." They're like, "He didn't like that cold water." Like, "Okay." And then you see another guy who was in worse shape than me, barely squeaked by everything, and he is the hardest dude you ever met in your life.
他通过了一切。”他们就像，“他不喜欢那冷水。”就像，“好吧。”然后你看到另一个比我状况更糟糕的人，几乎没有被一切惊呆，他是你一生中遇到的最难相处的人。
Nothing phases him.
没有什么能影响他。
Every run, every swim, just miserable, he doesn't care.
每次跑步，每次游泳，只是痛苦，他不在乎。
He-
他——
Andrew Huberman: You just kind of...
安德鲁·休伯曼：你只是……
It sounds like you have to not mind being miserable.
听起来你不必介意痛苦。
DJ Shipley: You have to get used to it.
DJ Shipley：你必须习惯它。
You have to embrace it.
你必须拥抱它。
It's going to suck.
它会很糟糕。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It's supposed to.
DJ Shipley：应该是这样。
And you've just got to tell yourself, "It's worth the price of admission.
你只需告诉自己，“这是值得的入场费。
It's gonna be miserable.
会很惨的
You bought the ticket, you're gonna get the whole show, and it's totally worth it.
你买了票，就可以观看整个演出，这是完全值得的。
But you've got to be there at the end."
但最后你必须到场。”
Andrew Huberman: You mentioned Coleman Ruiz, who's been a guest on this podcast, is a good friend of mine, and yours as well, and you worked with him.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你提到了科尔曼·鲁伊斯，他是这个播客的嘉宾，他是我的好朋友，也是你的好朋友，你和他一起工作过。
And I'm probably going to get this a little bit wrong, but I think once he said...
我可能会有点误解，但我想一旦他说……
Because I think he was an instructor at BUD/S also for a short while.
因为我认为他也曾在 BUD/S 担任过一段时间的讲师。
DJ Shipley: I think he was.
DJ Shipley：我想他是。
Andrew Huberman: And I think he said, "When you look at the guys that make it through BUD/S, nine times out of ten, they've had one or at least one of the following three things: either spent some serious time in detention in high school, played a varsity sport in high school, divorced parents." And that raises a whole bunch of other questions about friction, and kind of, for lack of a better way to put it, some internal sense of like, "F you, I'm going to push through this anyway," or just, "F you," to something.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我想他说过，“当你看看那些通过 BUD/S 的人时，十分之九的人都经历过以下三件事中的一件或至少一件：要么在高中被拘留了一段严重的时间，要么在高中参加了校队运动，要么父母离婚。”这就引发了一大堆关于摩擦的其他问题，而且，由于缺乏更好的表达方式，一些内心的感觉，比如“F你，我无论如何都会完成这件事”，或者只是“F你”对某件事。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So when you're going...
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以当你要去的时候……
So let's assume that Coleman, given the fact that he's not a scientist, he was a former operator, so he knows.
因此，让我们假设科尔曼，鉴于他不是科学家，他曾是一名操作员，所以他知道。
Do you think that there were moments, or many moments where it was you against them?
你认为在某些时刻，或者很多时刻，是你与他们对抗的吗？
Like, you and your teammates, because you're on a boat crew or whatever with your teammates, you're working as a team and learning how to do that.
就像你和你的队友一样，因为你和你的队友一起在船上或其他什么地方，所以你作为一个团队工作并学习如何做到这一点。
It's not just about you; it's about the group.
这不仅与你有关；也与你有关。这是关于团体的。
And it's about you, and it's about the expectation.
这与你有关，与期望有关。
But how many different bins of motivation do you have to access to get through BUD/S?
但是，要通过 BUD/S，您需要获得多少种不同的动力呢？
And is, "F you," to the instructors or whoever, to the cold water, is that a critical bin?
对教练或任何人说“F you”，对冷水，这是一个关键的垃圾箱吗？
DJ Shipley: It is and it isn't.
DJ Shipley：是的，也不是。
Because sometimes you get caught up in the moment, you don't even think about it, you just want to finish that evolution.
因为有时你会陷入当下，你甚至不去想它，你只想完成这个进化。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: So when you're doing a four-mile timed run...
DJ Shipley：所以当你进行四英里定时跑步时......
That was one of the big things, is you have to do a four-mile timed run.
这是一件大事，你必须进行四英里的定时跑步。
It's got to be, I think, a seven-minute mile or less.
我想，这必须是七分钟一英里或更短的时间。
And nowhere in there does it say the condition of the beach matters.
那里没有任何地方说海滩的状况很重要。
So if it's high tide, low tide, you have to run it on the berm and soft sand.
所以如果涨潮、退潮，你就得在护堤和松软的沙滩上跑。
The time standard's a time standard.
时间标准就是时间标准。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And talk to anybody.
DJ Shipley：与任何人交谈。
At any point in that training, you are going to hit a wall where you think your heart's going to stop.
在训练的任何时候，你都会遇到让你心跳停止的墙。
Like, "If I take one more step, I'll die right here."
就像，“如果我再迈出一步，我就会死在这里。”
Andrew Huberman: Because your heart rate's so high.
安德鲁·休伯曼：因为你的心率太高了。
DJ Shipley: And you're like, "I can't do it." And at some point, you just don't care.
DJ Shipley：你会说，“我做不到。”在某些时候，你只是不在乎。
You're like, "I'd rather fall stone-cold dead in front of all of them and die right here than I would failing or quitting."
你会说，“我宁愿在他们所有人面前冷酷地死去，然后就死在这里，也不愿失败或放弃。”
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, at least you don't have to go home head hanging in shame.
Andrew Huberman：是的，至少你不用羞愧地回家。
DJ Shipley: Exactly.
DJ 希普利：没错。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: And you just push anyway.
DJ Shipley：无论如何你都要推动。
Sometimes you'll get it, you'll be getting surf tortured by the instructors, and you're just laying on that 60-degree water, just miserable.
有时候你会明白的，你会被冲浪教练折磨，而你只是躺在60度的水里，很痛苦。
And I tell this story quite a bit.
我讲了很多这个故事。
We had dudes getting up and leaving, mass exits, just...
我们有伙计们起身离开，大规模退出，只是……
And the biggest, strongest dudes.
还有最大、最强的家伙。
It's broad daylight.
已经是大白天了。
70 degrees on Coronado Island, the most beautiful day you've ever seen.
科罗纳多岛 70 度，这是您见过的最美的一天。
We're laying there just jackhammering.
我们躺在那里只是用手提钻敲打。
And you look over and all the West Coast SEAL teams are out to your right.
你看过去，所有西海岸海豹突击队都在你的右边。
And you can see SEAL Team One out there doing log PT for their morning PT.
你可以看到海豹突击队一队在那里为他们的早上 PT 做记录 PT。
And you could look down the left and you see the Hotel Del and this little, what I call a seven-year-old with a big pink flamingo, jumping in the water, having the best time of their life.
你可以向左看，你会看到德尔酒店，还有这个小孩子，我称之为一个七岁的孩子，带着一只粉红色的大火烈鸟，跳进水里，享受着他们一生中最美好的时光。
And I'm like, "It's all about your perspective."
我想，“这完全取决于你的观点。”
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Could be a palace or a prison.
DJ Shipley：可能是宫殿或监狱。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: However you want to see it right now.
DJ Shipley：不过你现在就想看。
That, they're still doing it.
那，他们仍然在这样做。
Andrew Huberman: That's funny.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这很有趣。
DJ Shipley: That kid, time of their life, and we're in the exact same water.
DJ Shipley：那个孩子，他们生命中的那段时光，我们都在同一个水里。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Just change your mindset.
DJ Shipley：只要改变你的心态即可。
This is all part of the process, and if you want to wear that shiny gold thing on your chest, you must do this.
这都是整个过程的一部分，如果你想把那个闪闪发光的金色东西戴在胸前，你必须这样做。
Just do it.
就做吧。
And I remember that was one of the things, like, "You're not going to break me.
我记得那是其中一件事，就像，“你不会击垮我。
No matter what you say, I'll die right here in this water.
不管你说什么，我都会死在这水里。
I don't care." And that kind of mindset has really been beneficial throughout the entire process.
我不在乎。”这种心态在整个过程中确实是有益的。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Because there are parts of BUD/S and parts of being in special operations where you think it's going to kill you.
DJ Shipley：因为 BUD/S 的某些部分和特种部队的某些部分会让你认为这会杀了你。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And then at a certain point, you just don't care.
DJ Shipley：然后在某个时刻，你就不在乎了。
"If it kills me, it kills me.
“如果它杀了我，那就杀了我。
I don't care." And you get through it.
我不在乎。”然后你就克服了它。
Like, "I'm so terrified of heights.
就像，“我非常恐高。
Like, I can't jump out of the back of this airplane." You watch 15 guys go in front of you and you get right to the ramp, and you go, "I don't care." And for whatever reason, they just jump.
就像，我不能从这架飞机的后部跳下来。”你看着 15 个家伙走在你前面，然后你径直走到坡道上，然后你说，“我不在乎。”不管出于什么原因，他们只是跳了下去。
Like, "What made you jump?" "Everybody else did it.
比如，“是什么让你跳起来？” “其他人都这么做了。
I didn't want to be the guy who said no." Sometimes that performance anxiety, that pressure to perform on demand, it gets you through the hump and it shows you, "If it can be done by a human being, I can do it."
我不想成为那个说不的人。”有时候，那种表现焦虑、那种按需表现的压力，它可以帮助你度过难关，它向你表明，“如果这件事可以由人类完成，我也能做到。”
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And it just rings true.
DJ Shipley：听起来确实如此。
It's like, "How far can you run?" "As far as I have to." "Well, how fast can you run?" "As fast as I can.
就像“你能跑多远？” “尽我所能。” “那么，你能跑多快？” “尽可能快。
Like, if you can run that, I can run it.
就像，如果你能运行它，我就能运行它。
If you can get up and over that mountain, I can do it too." "How you going to do it?" "One step at a time, brother.
如果你能爬上那座山，我也能做到。” “你打算怎么做？” “一步一步，兄弟。
Here we go." And it makes you so mentally resilient.
我们开始吧。”这让你的精神恢复能力很强。
And I think that's really the defining factor, is you can make them believe in their mind they can get through anything.
我认为这确实是决定性因素，就是你可以让他们相信自己可以克服任何困难。
Now collectively as a group, now you stack 25 of those true believers together, you can do anything.
现在作为一个集体，现在你将 25 个真正的信徒聚集在一起，你可以做任何事情。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And I've seen some dudes do some Herculean feats, and they do it just because they're too afraid to say no. "Can you do that?" "Yep." "You sure?" "If it can be done, I'll do it." I've seen it time and time again.
DJ Shipley：我见过一些人做出了一些艰巨的壮举，他们这样做只是因为他们太害怕而不敢拒绝。 “你能做到吗？” “是的。” “你确定？” “如果能做到的话，我就去做。”我已经一次又一次地看到它。
But yeah, I mean, everybody hits those moments in BUD/S where it's just, "I cannot believe I'm doing this right now." But it's magic once you get through it.
但是，是的，我的意思是，每个人在 BUD/S 中都会遇到这样的时刻，“我不敢相信我现在正在做这件事。”但一旦你克服了它，它就会变得神奇。
Andrew Huberman: It's awesome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
I mean, I think setting a threshold for, "If it kills me, it kills me," is, in many contexts, unhealthy, but in that context is, yeah, I guess healthy, adaptive.
我的意思是，我认为设定一个阈值，“如果它杀了我，它就会杀了我”，在许多情况下是不健康的，但在这种情况下，是的，我认为是健康的、适应性的。
Let's call it adaptive.
我们称之为自适应。
I'm not going to decide what's healthy or unhealthy.
我不会决定什么是健康或不健康。
I'm sure some people are listening to this and they're thinking, "Oh, God, like this is how guys get themselves killed." And indeed, outside of the context of BUD/S, sometimes guys do dumb stuff.
我确信有些人听到这个之后会想：“哦，天哪，这就是人们自杀的方式。”事实上，在 BUD/S 的背景之外，有时人们会做出愚蠢的事情。
I always say there's something about having a Y chromosome that through...
我总是说，拥有一条 Y 染色体会...
You know, I wasn't around tens of thousands of years ago, but I'm guessing the first Homo sapien male who picked up a rock, the first thing he did was hit himself in the head with it and was like, "Ouch."
你知道，我不在几万年前，但我猜第一个捡起一块石头的男性智人，他做的第一件事就是用石头击中自己的头部，然后说“哎哟”。
DJ Shipley: Oh.
DJ 希普利：哦。
Andrew Huberman: Then he hit the guy next to him with it.
Andrew Huberman：然后他用它击中了他旁边的人。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And he went, "Ouch." And then they decided to take it and throw it against a wall and see what happens, and on and on, and here we are.
安德鲁·休伯曼：然后他说，“哎哟。”然后他们决定把它扔到墙上，看看会发生什么，就这样，我们就到了。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And obviously, those with two X chromosomes took a different path, and we need the collaboration in order to survive as a species, obviously.
Andrew Huberman：显然，那些拥有两条 X 染色体的人走了一条不同的道路，显然，我们需要合作才能作为一个物种生存。
DJ Shipley: Right.
DJ 希普利：对。
Andrew Huberman: But there's something about that, "Let's just see what happens if," and, "If it kills me, it kills me," that actually is a core feature of human evolution that's brought us to some incredible positive places.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：但是，“让我们看看如果会发生什么”，“如果它杀了我，它就会杀了我”，这实际上是人类进化的核心特征，它把我们带到了一些令人难以置信的积极的地方。
So clearly BUD/S is one such microenvironment.
显然，BUD/S 就是这样的微环境之一。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So you make it through.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以你成功了。
And then I realize there are a lot of other iterations.
然后我意识到还有很多其他的迭代。
There's jump school, and there are a bunch of other things, and you go off and you start OPing right away?
有跳槽学校，还有很多其他事情，然后你就开始OPing？
DJ Shipley: Yeah, I get stationed at SEAL Team 10 in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and we deploy in 2005.
DJ Shipley：是的，我驻扎在弗吉尼亚州弗吉尼亚海滩的海豹突击队第 10 分队，我们于 2005 年部署。
The Iraq war had just kicked off, so we...
伊拉克战争刚刚开始，所以我们...
I check in, and it was early '04, and we deployed in...
我登记入住，那是 04 年初，我们部署在...
Yeah, we deployed probably seven months later and sent out.
是的，我们大约七个月后部署并发送出去。
Iraq was phenomenal.
伊拉克是非凡的。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Everything you ever wanted it to be, scary, like you don't know anything.
DJ Shipley：你想要的一切，可怕的，就像你什么都不知道一样。
The IEDs are really bad, and just being a really young kid, I mean, I was stormtrooping out in Iraq and 19 years old.
简易爆炸装置真的很糟糕，我是说，作为一个非常小的孩子，我当时 19 岁，正在伊拉克参加冲锋队。
You forget how young you are at 19.
你忘记了自己19岁是多么年轻。
Andrew Huberman: So you're 19, you're kicking doors down, driving Humvees, blowing stuff up, and seeing friends get blown up.
Andrew Huberman：所以你才 19 岁，你会踢门、开悍马车、炸毁东西，并看到朋友被炸毁。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: If you talk to anybody who was in Iraq, the chances of you not hitting an IED were so rare, and we never hit one.
DJ 希普利：如果你和任何在伊拉克的人交谈，你会发现你没有击中简易爆炸装置的可能性非常小，而我们从来没有击中过。
They'd hit the convoy in front of us, the one behind us.
他们击中了我们前面和后面的车队。
We'd get delayed at the gate for two minutes, we'd turn, and boom, they'd go off in front of you.
我们在门口耽搁了两分钟，然后我们就转身，然后砰的一声，他们就在你面前走了。
They're just not hitting...
他们只是不打...
They're hitting everybody else but you.
他们打除了你以外的所有人。
And you would tell yourself things like, "Oh, the reason they're not doing it is 'cause we look so aggressive because we have flames and death skulls on the Humvees." It's not that, man.
你会告诉自己，“哦，他们不这样做的原因是我们看起来很有侵略性，因为我们的悍马车上有火焰和死亡头骨。”不是那样的，伙计。
It's just not your time.
只是现在还不是你的时间。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: You can be the best trained dude in the world and that IED hits you, the lights are over.
DJ Shipley：你可以成为世界上训练有素的人，但简易爆炸装置袭击了你，灯光就结束了。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And on that deployment, we lost all the guys in Operation Red Wings in Afghanistan.
DJ Shipley：在那次部署中，我们失去了阿富汗红翼行动中的所有人员。
That was the other half of our SEAL team.
那是我们海豹突击队的另一半。
Andrew Huberman: That wasn't an IED, that was the-
Andrew Huberman：那不是简易爆炸装置，那是-
DJ Shipley: That was a helicopter that got shot down.
DJ Shipley：那是一架被击落的直升机。
Andrew Huberman: Now, I don't know whether or not to call it famous or infamous, forgive me.
Andrew Huberman：现在，我不知道该称其为著名还是臭名昭著，请原谅我。
I'm going to step in it one way or the other.
我将以一种或另一种方式介入其中。
"Lone Survivor."
“孤独的幸存者。”
DJ Shipley: Mm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Amazing book, I should say.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我应该说，这是一本很棒的书。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I really enjoyed the book.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我真的很喜欢这本书。
The movie does, I think, a pretty good job of extracting some of the key moments from the book, but more than a movie or a book, it's a true story.
我认为这部电影很好地提取了书中的一些关键时刻，但它不仅仅是一部电影或一本书，它是一个真实的故事。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And that's the four guys that got...
安德鲁·休伯曼：这就是那四个人……
The three of them got killed on the ground, and then one helicopter blown up attempting to come save them.
三人倒地身亡，一架试图救援他们的直升机被炸毁。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: To save the one guy.
安德鲁·休伯曼：为了拯救一个人。
DJ Shipley: Save the one guy.
DJ Shipley：救救那个人。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, Marcus.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，马库斯。
DJ Shipley: And that was so hard to wrap your head around as a 19-year-old because you've got to think, you know, in my mind, I'd essentially been in the community for 19 years up to that point.
DJ Shipley：作为一个 19 岁的孩子，这很难理解，因为你必须思考，你知道，在我看来，到那时我已经在社区工作了 19 年了。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And during my dad's time, it was peacetime the whole time, so you weren't going to funerals all day long.
DJ Shipley：在我父亲的时代，一直都是和平时期，所以你不会整天去参加葬礼。
Navy SEALs getting killed was like folklore.
海豹突击队被杀就像民间传说。
It's like, "Oh, it's a bad parachute accident." We had Neil Roberts got killed in the early GWOT in Afghanistan, Robert's Ridge, if you ever heard of that story.
就像，“哦，这是一次严重的降落伞事故。”如果你听说过这个故事的话，我们让尼尔·罗伯茨在阿富汗早期的 GWOT 中被杀，罗伯特岭。
That's a gnarly one.
这是一个粗糙的。
Russell got the Medal of Honor.
拉塞尔获得荣誉勋章。
John Chapman, the Air Force guy, got the Medal of Honor.
空军人员约翰·查普曼获得了荣誉勋章。
Gnarly firefight.
激烈的交火。
But outside of that, it wasn't happening very often, and then when all those guys got killed in one shot, it was like a slap of reality.
但除此之外，这种情况并不经常发生，然后当所有这些人都被一枪杀死时，这就像现实的一记耳光。
They were the best dudes you've ever seen.
他们是你见过的最好的家伙。
Like, unbelievably trained, unbelievable experience, and they're gone in an instant.
就像，令人难以置信的训练，令人难以置信的经历，他们瞬间就消失了。
No goodbye, no fanfare, no holding him like, "Tell my mother..." It's nothing like Hollywood.
没有告别，没有大张旗鼓，没有像“告诉我妈妈……”那样抱住他，这与好莱坞完全不同。
They're gone.
他们走了。
Andrew Huberman: And that was kept under wraps for a long time before the book and the movie.
安德鲁·休伯曼：在这本书和电影出现之前，这一点已经被保密了很长一段时间。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: People really didn't know.
Andrew Huberman：人们真的不知道。
There wasn't a lot of discussion about SEALs and-
关于海豹突击队的讨论并不多，而且——
DJ Shipley: No.
DJ 希普利：不。
Andrew Huberman: Well, yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯，是的。
DJ Shipley: It wasn't in popular culture, and when the book came out, it started to gain steam, and people started to read more about it.
DJ Shipley：这并不属于流行文化，当这本书出版时，它开始受到关注，人们开始阅读更多相关内容。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: But for being inside the SEAL teams, that was your own private 9/11.
DJ Shipley：但是对于海豹突击队来说，那是你自己的 9/11 事件。
Every single SEAL cried in an instant, throwing up.
每个海豹突击队员都立刻哭了起来，呕吐了。
Just you cannot believe that just happened.
只是你无法相信刚刚发生的事情。
And then for everybody else who's still fighting the war, you have to try to explain to your wife and your family why that's not going to happen to you, and it's a lie.
然后，对于仍在参加战争的其他人来说，您必须尝试向您的妻子和家人解释为什么这种情况不会发生在您身上，这是一个谎言。
It's not like they did anything wrong.
他们又没有做错什么。
That's just the way it is.
事情就是这样。
Sometimes it just happens.
有时它就发生了。
Andrew Huberman: You were married at this point?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你当时已经结婚了？
DJ Shipley: I wasn't.
DJ 希普利：我没有。
Single, thank God.
单身，感谢上帝。
Andrew Huberman: Intentionally?
安德鲁·休伯曼：故意的？
DJ Shipley: Intentionally.
DJ 希普利：故意的。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
I tried to wait as long as humanly possible and try to do that.
我试着尽可能地等待并尝试这样做。
Good advice, but, you know, it's hard.
很好的建议，但是，你知道，这很难。
It's hard to do that job at full-time and trying to be a full-time boyfriend that turns into a fiancé that turns into a husband, turns into a father.
全职做这份工作很难，并试图成为一个全职男朋友，变成一个未婚夫，变成一个丈夫，变成一个父亲。
It's very hard unless you're able to compartmentalize really, really well.
除非你能够非常非常好地进行划分，否则这是非常困难的。
And fortunately for us, that's the thing you're the best at, is I can wall it off so fast and never think about you again.
对我们来说幸运的是，这就是你最擅长的事情，我可以如此迅速地将其隔离开来，再也不会想起你。
Now when you transition out of the military, that's not really a super power anymore.
现在，当你从军队退役时，那不再是真正的超级大国了。
But in the moment, it served you.
但此刻，它对你有用。
Andrew Huberman: So as more and more guys are getting killed, did you find that getting into action each day, the same way that you describe civilian life now, and getting into action each day, being really adaptive, did you find that that was key to being able to not go down mental traps?
安德鲁·休伯曼：随着越来越多的人被杀，你是否发现每天采取行动，就像你现在描述平民生活一样，每天采取行动，真正适应，你是否发现这是能够不陷入精神陷阱的关键？
And at the same time, I acknowledge that you must have also just been really busy.
同时，我承认您一定也很忙。
There's stuff coming at you all the time...
总有一些东西向你袭来...
I mean, it sounds cold, but just because guys get killed doesn't mean that the oping stops.
我的意思是，这听起来很冷，但仅仅因为有人被杀并不意味着行动就会停止。
In fact, it probably picks up even more.
事实上，它可能会增加更多。
DJ Shipley: You go out the next night.
DJ Shipley：你第二天晚上出去。
You have to.
你必须这样做。
You've got to keep going, you've got to get back on the horse.
你必须继续前进，你必须重新上马。
Keep on going.
继续前进。
The last thing that we wanted is those guys get killed, "Well, let's pull them all back.
我们最不想看到的就是那些家伙被杀，“好吧，让我们把他们全部拉回来。
Let's take, you know, six months to, you know, regroup." No. No. "We gotta go out right now." Same thing with the parachute accident.
让我们用六个月的时间重新组合。”不，不。“我们现在必须出去。”降落伞事故也是如此。
I told you about the electro-- "I gotta do it right away.
我告诉过你有关电子的事——“我必须马上做。
If I don't get back on the horse, I'll just build up this dread, and I'll lose my confidence in the whole process.
如果我不重新上马，我就会增强这种恐惧，并且我会对整个过程失去信心。
Like, we have to go." And NSW did, everybody did.
就像，我们得走了。”新南威尔士州做到了，每个人都做到了。
Full gas, full steam ahead, let's go, and just kept going.
加油，全速前进，我们走吧，继续前进。
We did another one in 2007.
2007 年我们又做了一次。
If you've seen the stuff with Jason Redman, I talked about my buddy Matty getting shot up.
如果你看过杰森·雷德曼的作品，我谈到了我的好友马蒂被枪杀的事。
That 2007 deployment was dicey, but it's the same thing-
2007 年的部署很冒险，但都是一样的——
Andrew Huberman: Two of your close friends.
Andrew Huberman：你的两个亲密朋友。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
And-
还有——
Andrew Huberman: Pretty mangled.
安德鲁·休伯曼：相当糟糕。
DJ Shipley: Oh.
DJ 希普利：哦。
Crazy mangled.
疯狂的被毁了。
And you start to find out really, really fast that it doesn't matter how much you train.
你很快就会发现，训练多少并不重要。
If your number's called, you're getting pulled.
如果你的号码被叫到，你就会被拉走。
And it's hard to justify because now you have a girlfriend, you have all this stuff, and people are dying, and you have to reassure them why it's not going to happen to you, and you get really good at compartmentalization.
这很难证明是合理的，因为现在你有了女朋友，你拥有了所有这些东西，人们正在死去，你必须向他们保证为什么这种事不会发生在你身上，而且你真的很擅长区分。
Like, I can't control that.
就像，我无法控制这一点。
The only thing I can control is this.
我唯一能控制的就是这个。
I'm shooting as much as I can, I'm doing as much CQB as I can, I'm jumping as much as I can, I'm around the boys building team camaraderie as much as humanly possible because I can't control anything else.
我尽可能多地投篮，我尽可能多地进行CQB，我尽可能多地跳跃，我尽可能地与男孩们建立团队友情，因为我无法控制其他任何事情。
Control the things you can control, building confidence.
控制你能控制的事情，建立信心。
But reality, when it slaps, it slaps hard and definitely slapped us.
但现实，它打的时候，是狠狠的，而且肯定是打在我们身上的。
Andrew Huberman: As the public understanding of what the SEALs even were and are started to grow and change, and the movies, the "Lone Survivor" movie, and...
安德鲁·胡伯曼：随着公众对海豹突击队的过去和现在的了解开始增长和变化，电影、《孤独的幸存者》电影……
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I actually think, again, they did a good job with the movie.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我实际上再次认为他们在这部电影上做得很好。
I know the book and the movie were approved by the military, so there was a lot of kind of vetting of the material, but I think it hit powerfully.
我知道这本书和电影都得到了军方的批准，所以对材料进行了很多审查，但我认为它的影响力很大。
At the time, I was living in San Diego, so the movie theaters were packed, but that was true everywhere.
当时，我住在圣地亚哥，所以电影院里挤满了人，但到处都是如此。
DJ Shipley: Hm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: It made a big impact.
安德鲁·休伯曼：它产生了很大的影响。
But then with like the Bin Laden thing, televising the White House watching, I feel like the whole world came to understand that there were these guys called Navy SEALs, and they're doing this really dangerous stuff, taking out bad guys.
但后来像本·拉登事件一样，在白宫电视上观看，我觉得全世界都开始明白，有这些被称为海豹突击队的人，他们正在做这种非常危险的事情，消灭坏人。
Was there anything that changed about the job just knowing that it wasn't as vaulted as it once was?
仅仅知道这份工作不再像以前那样拱形，是否有什么改变？
I mean, what you're doing is vaulted on a day-to-day basis, but, you know, just this idea, like, this is in movies, and there it is on the cover of CNN.
我的意思是，你所做的事情是在日常基础上进行的，但是，你知道，只是这个想法，就像，这是在电影中，而且它出现在 CNN 的封面上。
There's Obama and Secretary of Defense watching the op, and people at...
奥巴马和国防部长正在观看这次行动，人们......
Then there's a movie made about it very quickly, and it was all happening.
然后很快就有一部关于这件事的电影上映了，这一切都发生了。
It was weird, in real time and on the movies, and it just...
这很奇怪，无论是在现实生活中还是在电影中，而且它只是......
Andrew Huberman: For a civilian, it was a little bit of a mind bend.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对于一个平民来说，这有点令人费解。
I can't even imagine what it was like if that's your job.
我什至无法想象如果那是你的工作会是什么样子。
And so much of being able to perform the job well relies on people not knowing what you're doing and how you do it.
能否出色地完成工作很大程度上取决于人们不知道你在做什么以及如何做。
What was that like?
那是什么样子的？
DJ Shipley: Terrible.
DJ 希普利：太糟糕了。
I mean, the very next day you couldn't drive on the compound.
我的意思是，第二天你就不能在院子里开车了。
Every news channel across America was sitting outside of that thing, and not only are they taking photos of everybody that comes in, they know what you look like.
美国各地的每个新闻频道都坐在那个东西外面，他们不仅给进来的每个人拍照，他们还知道你长什么样。
They're looking for guys with long hair, beards, covered in tattoos, driving jacked-up pickup trucks.
他们正在寻找长发、长胡子、满身纹身、驾驶自升式皮卡车的人。
That's what they're looking for.
这就是他们正在寻找的。
And now you can't go anywhere.
现在你哪儿也去不了。
Now they're going out in town to all the bars and restaurants you go to, and they're pulling you aside asking you...
现在他们去城里所有你去的酒吧和餐馆，他们把你拉到一边问你……
It's very uncomfortable.
很不舒服。
They'll see wives in there with a little trident stick on the back of their car.
他们会看到车后面插着一根小三叉戟的妻子们。
They'll nail her in the Whole Foods parking lot.
他们会把她钉在全食超市的停车场。
"Is your husband a Navy SEAL?" Nobody's ever done this before.
“你丈夫是海豹突击队队员吗？”以前没有人这样做过。
It's like mum's the word.
就像妈妈说的那样。
Everybody kind of just collapsed on ourselves and really, really tried to hush this thing down, but it made the job very, very difficult.
每个人都崩溃了，真的，真的试图让这件事安静下来，但这让工作变得非常非常困难。
It felt like you were just under a microscope the entire time.
感觉就像你一直在显微镜下一样。
And then when Extortion happened, then everybody started that, "It was an inside job." Come on, man.
然后当勒索发生时，每个人都开始说，“这是内部工作。”来吧，伙计。
Andrew Huberman: I know it's probably not something you want to get into, but maybe just explain for people what Extortion 17 was, and why that was so additionally impactful, after what happened with Operation Red Wings?
Andrew Huberman：我知道这可能不是您想要讨论的内容，但也许只是向人们解释一下勒索 17 是什么，以及在红翼行动发生事件之后为什么它如此具有额外的影响力？
DJ Shipley: Yeah, I mean, we had Operation Red Wings that happened June 28th, 2005.
DJ Shipley：是的，我的意思是，我们于 2005 年 6 月 28 日进行了红翼行动。
You had a bunch of really historic things that led up after that.
之后发生了很多真正具有历史意义的事情。
You had the rescue of Captain Phillips in 2009.
2009 年，您救出了菲利普斯船长。
That was a huge milestone win, like, "Everybody's cool, yeah, yeah, yeah."
这是一个巨大的里程碑式的胜利，就像，“每个人都很酷，是啊，是啊，是啊。”
Andrew Huberman: And they made a movie.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：他们拍了一部电影。
DJ Shipley: They made a movie, and it's great...
DJ Shipley：他们拍了一部电影，非常棒……
But nobody in the Teams is on social media.
但团队中没有人使用社交媒体。
I didn't watch a YouTube video my entire time in the SEAL Teams.
我在海豹突击队的整个时间里都没有看过 YouTube 视频。
What would I watch a YouTube video for?
我看 YouTube 视频的目的是什么？
Nobody knew how bad it was spinning outside of your control.
没有人知道事情在你的控制之外旋转得有多糟糕。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Nobody.
DJ 希普利：没有人。
Bin Laden happens...
本·拉登发生了...
And then August 6th, 2011, we lose an entire troop of guys in Afghanistan.
2011 年 8 月 6 日，我们在阿富汗失去了整支部队。
Helo gets shot down, kills them all in an instant, killed 31 total people, and it was like we were reliving June 28th again, but now it's double as bad.
Helo 被击落，瞬间杀死了所有人，总共杀死了 31 人，就像我们再次重温 6 月 28 日，但现在情况更加糟糕。
And now you truly have the best that have ever suited up.
现在您确实拥有了有史以来最好的套装。
If you look at the experience level they have, most of those guys were pre-9/11 guys, 10, 12 combat rotations...
如果你看看他们的经验水平，大多数人都是 9/11 之前的人，10、12 个战斗轮换……
Gone.
走了。
You'll never replace it.
你永远不会取代它。
Never.
绝不。
You've never filled that void since that moment.
从那一刻起你就再也没有填补过那个空白。
And then you have all these people just hateful rhetorically.
然后你就会看到所有这些人都充满仇恨的言辞。
"Oh, it was an inside job," and, you know, "They knew too much.
“哦，这是内部工作，”而且，你知道，“他们知道得太多了。
They were on the Bin Laden raid so we killed them." Do you know how hard that is to live in Virginia Beach doing that job seeing those wives at Whole Foods wearing a memorial T-shirt knowing you're saying that?
他们参与了本·拉登的突袭行动，所以我们杀死了他们。”你知道住在弗吉尼亚海滩做这份工作，看着全食超市的那些妻子穿着纪念 T 恤，知道你这么说有多难吗？
DJ Shipley: Do you know what that does to a family?
DJ Shipley：你知道这对一个家庭意味着什么吗？
Do you know what that does to little kids who wake up and they read the comment section?
你知道这对醒来后阅读评论部分的小孩子有什么影响吗？
"Mom, was Dad killed?" "Yeah." "Was he killed by the government?" That's what they read because that's what you're saying, and it's not the truth.
“妈妈，爸爸被杀了吗？” “是的。” “他是被政府杀的吗？”这就是他们读到的内容，因为这就是你所说的，而这不是事实。
It's just not.
事实并非如此。
That was an op that went wrong.
那是一个错误的操作。
It's a dangerous job and when you fly in those big gigantic black helicopters and they're slow to land, you can shoot them and that's what happened.
这是一项危险的工作，当你驾驶那些巨大的黑色直升机飞行并且它们着陆缓慢时，你可以射击它们，这就是发生的事情。
And it's as simple as that.
就这么简单。
It's a dangerous job.
这是一项危险的工作。
Like what are you going to do?
比如你要做什么？
But it is very hard to live in Virginia Beach.
但在弗吉尼亚海滩生活是非常困难的。
It is so small.
它是如此之小。
Everywhere you go it's around you.
无论你走到哪里，它都在你身边。
I mean, you're sifting through black T-shirts all day long.
我的意思是，你整天都在筛选黑色 T 恤。
Which memorial shirt are you going to wear?
你会穿哪件纪念衬衫？
It just is.
确实如此。
And now you get there, now people are starting to erode that from you, and it really starts to lose your confidence.
现在你到了那里，现在人们开始侵蚀你的信心，你真的开始失去信心。
So for me, now I'm married, I'm in the organization.
所以对我来说，现在我结婚了，我加入了组织。
DJ Shipley: We had to fill a lot of those guys from other squadrons, and one of my best friends had to go over, and unfortunately, he got killed in December 8th, 2012 on a hostage rescue.
DJ Shipley：我们不得不补充很多来自其他中队的人，我最好的朋友之一也不得不过去，不幸的是，他在 2012 年 12 月 8 日的一次人质营救中丧生。
Ed Byers got the Medal of Honor for that operation.
埃德·拜尔斯因这次行动获得了荣誉勋章。
My buddy got the Navy Cross, and we went to BUD/S together.
我的朋友获得了海军十字勋章，我们一起去了BUD/S。
His name was Nic Cheque.
他的名字叫尼克·切克。
One of the greatest, most pure operators you have ever met.
你见过的最伟大、最纯粹的干员之一。
Came from Pennsylvania, big wrestler, always in a gym, always training.
来自宾夕法尼亚州，大摔跤手，总是在健身房，总是训练。
He represented what the essence of being a Navy SEAL was, and everyone knew it.
他代表了海豹突击队的本质，每个人都知道这一点。
When he died, a piece of me died that I've never gotten back.
当他死后，我的一部分就死了，再也无法恢复。
And I'm trying not to cry.
我努力不哭。
The hardest thing I've ever had to do was look at my wife and tell her that it wasn't going to happen to me after he died.
我做过的最困难的事情就是看着我的妻子，告诉她他死后这种事不会发生在我身上。
Andrew Huberman: Mm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
DJ Shipley: Because he was the true north.
DJ Shipley：因为他是真正的北方人。
So when she looks at me and she goes, "Well, the reason you're away from us, the reason you spend 300 days on the road is because you're perfecting this craft because you say it buys down the risk." What about that?
所以当她看着我时，她说道：“嗯，你离开我们的原因，你在路上度过 300 天的原因是因为你正在完善这门手艺，因为你说它可以降低风险。”那又怎样呢？
And you can't justify it.
你无法证明它是合理的。
You just look at her and you're like...
你只要看着她，你就会觉得……
"I just hope it's not my time.
“我只是希望这不是我的时间。
I'm just going to try to exhaust all my resources for now to put myself in the best position, surrounded by the best people, to buy down as much risk as humanly possible.
我现在只想尽力用尽我所有的资源，让自己处于最佳位置，周围都是最优秀的人，尽可能降低风险。
If my number is called, it's called." What do you want me to do?
如果我的号码被叫到，就被叫到了。”你想让我做什么？
And that's where the compartmentalization really took hold.
这就是区隔化真正发挥作用的地方。
You have to be able to leave Virginia Beach, your wife, your two kids, and completely block them out.
你必须能够离开弗吉尼亚海滩、你的妻子、你的两个孩子，并完全将他们拒之门外。
I can't run through that door with bullets coming out of it thinking about my wife and kids and how I'm going to orphan them.
我不能带着子弹从那扇门跑出去，想着我的妻子和孩子，以及我将如何让他们成为孤儿。
You can't.
你不能。
I don't have pictures in my room.
我的房间里没有照片。
I'm not trying to FaceTime all the time.
我不会一直尝试使用 FaceTime。
I'm trying to separate myself out so I can just do this job.
我正在努力把自己分开，这样我就可以做这份工作。
And it makes you really distant.
这让你们变得非常疏远。
It makes you not be the person you want to be or the person you used to be because you can't.
它让你不再是你想成为的人，或者是你曾经成为的人，因为你做不到。
Andrew Huberman: Well, you're being the person you need to be in order to eventually be able to go back and become the person you want to be, is what it sounds like to me.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好吧，你正在成为你需要成为的人，以便最终能够回去并成为你想成为的人，这对我来说是这样的。
DJ Shipley: And, you know, I say to the guys now, and it'll sound messed up, so forgive me, but I never chased a guy who had a perfect family.
DJ Shipley：而且，你知道，我现在对这些人说，听起来很混乱，所以请原谅我，但我从来没有追过一个拥有完美家庭的人。
There was never a Navy SEAL I ever wanted to emulate who had the picture perfect family, ever.
我从来没有想过效仿拥有完美家庭的海豹突击队员。
They were all either on their second marriage, bad relationship with their kids because they were so devout at work, and you looked at them like, "That's a master class." It's like watching Tiger Woods drag around his golf bag.
他们要么是第二次婚姻，要么因为工作太投入而与孩子关系不好，而你看着他们就像是，“那是大师班。”这就像看着老虎伍兹拖着他的高尔夫球包一样。
Like, that's the best it's ever been, ever.
就像，这是有史以来最好的。
And he has no 50/50.
而且他没有 50/50。
There is no dial for that man.
那个人没有电话号码。
He is living this at 100%, and the moment he retires, I really hope he takes all that energy, all that focus, and becomes a better husband and father.
他百分百地过着这样的生活，在他退休的那一刻，我真的希望他能拿出所有的精力、所有的注意力，成为一个更好的丈夫和父亲。
But you can't do it both ways.
但你不能两者兼得。
My mind has come to change now.
我的想法现在已经改变了。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: But I've never seen it.
DJ Shipley：但我从未见过。
And I most certainly had no balance.
我肯定没有平衡。
I wasn't even trying to find balance.
我什至没有试图找到平衡。
I was trying to wall them off as much as humanly possible to focus on the task at hand, because any distraction was dangerous.
我试图尽可能地将他们隔开，以便专注于手头的任务，因为任何分心都是危险的。
And it's hard to do, but it was necessary at the time.
而且这很难做到，但在当时是必要的。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I don't know any high performers, especially ultra high performers, and especially ultra high performers in high risk, high consequence careers, that don't have some unresolved dark aspect of themselves or their life or something that...
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我不知道有哪个高绩效者，特别是超高绩效者，特别是从事高风险、高后果职业的超高绩效者，他们自己或他们的生活中没有一些未解决的黑暗面或......
I mean, you mentioned Tiger, you know, it's public knowledge he had issues outside of his golf game, and sounds like he's resolved those.
我的意思是，你提到了老虎，你知道，众所周知，他在高尔夫比赛之外遇到了问题，而且听起来他已经解决了这些问题。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I think he got married again recently, and I think everyone should wish him the best, and them the best.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我认为他最近又结婚了，我认为每个人都应该祝他一切顺利，他们也一切顺利。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It's like, especially in the United States, we hold people up, and we expect perfection from our so-called heroes, historically, as well as ones that are alive.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这就像，特别是在美国，我们让人们保持高尚，我们期望历史上所谓的英雄以及活着的英雄都是完美的。
And perfection doesn't exist, right?
完美并不存在，对吧？
DJ Shipley: Right.
DJ 希普利：对。
Andrew Huberman: Because so much of what's required from high performance is total focus, total compartmentalization, and that being a human being is a lot more complicated than that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：因为高性能所要求的很多东西就是全神贯注、完全划分，而作为一个人比这要复杂得多。
It's something, I think, to keep in mind.
我认为，这是需要牢记的事情。
I also just want to just briefly double-click on this thing about comments.
我也只想简单地双击有关评论的内容。
You know, I'm not going to tell people to stop saying mean stuff about me if they want to, or mean stuff about somebody.
你知道，我不会告诉人们如果愿意的话就不要再说我的坏话，或者说别人的坏话。
They're going to do it anyway.
无论如何他们都会这么做。
It's not the issue.
这不是问题。
But when it comes to kids reading about their dead parents, their dead dads in this case, and last week we had a public assassination.
但当谈到孩子们读到他们死去的父母、他们死去的父亲的故事时，上周我们发生了一起公开暗杀事件。
It was a dead dad.
那是一个死去的父亲。
And people making up theories, and coming up with ideas that they somehow know things that other people don't know.
人们编造理论，提出他们以某种方式知道其他人不知道的事情的想法。
Andrew Huberman: And sometimes these people have a professional background in politics, or in the military, or in law enforcement, and it adds additional weight to these theories.
安德鲁·休伯曼：有时这些人有政治、军事或执法方面的专业背景，这增加了这些理论的分量。
But the repercussions on the kids and family and the legacy is, it's really bad.
但这对孩子、家庭和遗产的影响是非常糟糕的。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It's really bad.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这真的很糟糕。
It's a shame there isn't a thicker filter.
可惜没有更厚的滤镜。
I'm all for free speech, 100% for free speech, but there's a lot of damage done with those thumb clicks that I don't think people can really comprehend.
我完全支持言论自由，100%支持言论自由，但是这些拇指点击造成的损害很大，我认为人们无法真正理解。
So I'm glad you pointed that out.
所以我很高兴你指出了这一点。
DJ Shipley: Yeah, I mean, just imagine it.
DJ Shipley：是的，我的意思是，想象一下。
Like you're a 14-year-old kid and you've grown up worshiping your father, and he gets killed in Afghanistan, and you see a post about him.
就像你是一个 14 岁的孩子，你从小就崇拜你的父亲，他在阿富汗被杀，你看到了一篇关于他的帖子。
You start to read down like, "He was killed by his government, by this and this." "Mom?
你开始往下读，“他被他的政府杀了，被这个和这个杀了。” “妈妈？
Mom?" It raises doubt.
妈妈？”这引起了怀疑。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And then that little seed of doubt is going to be with him forever.
DJ Shipley：然后那颗怀疑的种子将永远伴随着他。
It takes the entire collective to be like, "Listen to me.
需要整个集体都这样说：“听我说。
They've never even met a Navy SEAL team.
他们甚至从未见过海豹突击队。
That's some kid in the middle of nowhere who's typing in his mother's basement who's just writing some hateful stuff.
那是一个在偏僻的地方的孩子，他在他母亲的地下室里打字，写着一些可恶的东西。
It's not real." It's hard to block it out when there's 500 of them.
这不是真的。”当有 500 个的时候，就很难阻挡它了。
Andrew Huberman: Or guys that were in the military that didn't make it through selection, they're pissed.
安德鲁·休伯曼：或者那些在军队中没有通过选拔的人，他们很生气。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Or have some resentment for some guy that was jacked in high school who said something and they didn't get the date, or...
安德鲁·休伯曼：或者对某个在高中时被骗的人怀有一些怨恨，他说了一些话，但他们没有得到约会，或者……
DJ Shipley: Yep, this guy stole your girlfriend.
DJ Shipley：是的，这家伙偷了你的女朋友。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, it's like the ego and resent are a bitter combination.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，自我和怨恨是一个痛苦的组合。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: It can last a lifetime.
Andrew Huberman：它可以持续一生。
Negative comments many times are irrelevant, but in this context, have a potential lasting, very corrosive aspect.
很多时候，负面评论是无关紧要的，但在这种情况下，负面评论具有潜在的持久性、非常具有腐蚀性的一面。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.
Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下，并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
Last year I became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
去年，在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我成为了一名功能成员。
Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health.
Function 提供 100 多项高级实验室测试，为您提供整个身体健康状况的关键快照。
This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more.
此快照为您提供有关心脏健康、激素健康、免疫功能、营养水平等方面的见解。
They've also recently added tests for toxins such as BPA exposure from harmful plastics, and tests for PFAS or forever chemicals.
他们最近还增加了毒素测试，例如有害塑料中的 BPA 暴露，以及 PFAS 或永久化学物质的测试。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas.
Function 不仅提供对您的身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标记物的测试，而且还分析这些结果并提供相关领域专家的顶级医生的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量升高。
Andrew Huberman: Function not only helped me detect that, but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, I'd been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-Acetyl Cysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification.
Andrew Huberman：功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，而且还提供了如何最好地降低汞含量的见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼消费，我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力多吃绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒。
And I should say, by taking a second Function test, that approach worked.
我应该说，通过进行第二次功能测试，这种方法奏效了。
Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important.
全面的血液检测至关重要。
There are so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test.
有很多与您的心理和身体健康相关的事情只能通过血液检查来检测。
The problem is, blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated.
问题是，血液检测一直非常昂贵且复杂。
In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost.
相比之下，Function 的简单性和成本水平给我留下了深刻的印象。
It is very affordable.
这是非常实惠的。
As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
因此，我决定加入他们的科学顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Function，可以访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman podcast listeners.
Function 目前有超过 250,000 人的等待名单，但他们正在为 Huberman 播客听众提供早期访问服务。
Andrew Huberman: Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
Andrew Huberman：再次强调，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
Andrew Huberman: So you're oping.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以你正在行动。
Guys are dying, you now have a family.
伙计们快要死了，你们现在有了家庭。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And it's in your family lineage to do this job.
Andrew Huberman：这项工作是你家族的血统。
I'm curious, was the fact that your dad was a team guide, did that feel like pressure, or did it feel like buoyancy?
我很好奇，你爸爸是一名团队指导，这感觉是压力还是浮力？
Or neither?
或者两者都不是？
DJ Shipley: It felt normal.
DJ Shipley：感觉很正常。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Did you feel like you had to outdo him in the...
你是否觉得你必须在...上超越他
I would ask that of anyone, military or not.
我会问任何人，无论是否是军人。
There's this notion...
有这样一个观念...
Well, let me just briefly back up.
好吧，让我简单回顾一下。
A friend recently, we were talking about kids and family and building family, and he said, "You don't want a son, you got daughters." He has all daughters.
最近，一个朋友，我们在谈论孩子和家庭以及建立家庭，他说，“你不想要儿子，你想要女儿。”他有所有的女儿。
And I go, "No, you know, I think I'd like, you know, one of each, but who cares?
我说：“不，你知道，我想我想要，你知道，每样一个，但谁在乎呢？
I'd have daughters, I'd have sons, you know, I don't care." And he said, "No, 'cause if you have a son, he's gonna try and be better than you, and then you're gonna be in conflict." And I almost said, "No," and then I was like, "My dad's a scientist."
我会有女儿，我会有儿子，你知道，我不在乎。”他说，“不，因为如果你有一个儿子，他会努力比你更好，然后你们就会陷入冲突。”我差点就说“不”，然后我就说，“我爸爸是一名科学家。”
DJ Shipley: Mm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And so I was like, there's a point in your life where you go, "Can I fill those shoes?
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以我想，在你生命中的某个时刻你会说，“我可以填补这些空缺吗？
Can I exceed those shoes?" It's natural human son-to-father behavior, I think.
我能超越那双鞋吗？”我认为这是人类儿子对父亲的自然行为。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：对吗？
And so was there ever a moment where you're like, "I gotta exceed," or was it irrelevant?
那么是否有过这样的时刻，你会说“我必须超越”，或者这是否无关紧要？
DJ Shipley: I think it was irrelevant, but just because of the timing you came in, you know, he spent his entire time at peacetime.
DJ Shipley：我认为这无关紧要，但只是因为你进来的时间，你知道，他整个时间都在和平时期度过。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I did nothing but combat the entire time.
DJ Shipley：我一直在战斗，什么也没做。
Andrew Huberman: Yep.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: A lot of deployments back and back, never took a shore duty station.
DJ Shipley：来来回回进行了很多部署，从未到过岸上工作地点。
Just by that amount of experience, you already surpassed it.
光凭这点经验，你就已经超越了。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It doesn't need to be said.
DJ Shipley：这个不用说。
Andrew Huberman: Why not leave?
安德鲁·休伯曼：为什么不离开呢？
One of your closest mentors and friends gets killed.
你最亲密的导师和朋友之一被杀。
DJ Shipley: Mm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, the retirement plan, I'm guessing, is pretty good, but it's not that awesome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，我猜退休计划相当不错，但并不是那么棒。
DJ Shipley: No.
DJ 希普利：不。
Andrew Huberman: That's a plug for the military to increase the retirement salaries, and...
安德鲁·胡伯曼：这是军队增加退休工资的一个插头，而且......
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: You get some medical care, right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你得到一些医疗护理，对吧？
Some things come to your family for staying in 20 years, I think it is.
有些东西你的家人会在20年后留下来，我想是的。
But did the thought ever cross your mind like, "Hey, guys are dropping off and you're right in the center of it," maybe leave?
但你的脑海中是否曾经闪过这样的想法：“嘿，大家都在下车，而你就在其中，”也许要离开？
DJ Shipley: No.
DJ 希普利：不。
Andrew Huberman: Not for a moment?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：暂时没有？
DJ Shipley: No.
DJ 希普利：不。
Andrew Huberman: I should have known that wasn't going to be the answer.
Andrew Huberman：我早该知道这不会是答案。
DJ Shipley: At that time, it's so different because a lot of people think about special operations in the Global War on Terror is the Marines pushing through Fallujah.
DJ Shipley：当时情况非常不同，因为很多人认为全球反恐战争中的特种行动是海军陆战队在费卢杰推进。
Broad daylight, just getting smashed.
大白天的，刚刚被砸了。
Those are the bravest dudes that served during the GWOT.
这些是在 GWOT 期间服役的最勇敢的人。
Andrew Huberman: The Marines.
安德鲁·休伯曼：海军陆战队。
DJ Shipley: There is nothing more impressive than a 19-year-old Marine and the things they'll do.
DJ Shipley：没有什么比 19 岁的海军陆战队员和他们所做的事情更令人印象深刻的了。
Like, they just are.
就像，他们就是这样。
They're heroes of mine.
他们是我的英雄。
My experience in a GWOT was very different.
我在 GWOT 中的经历非常不同。
It's always at night, it's always select targets.
总是在晚上，总是在选择目标。
It's not like they're like, "Hey, you and your team are going to go raid this village." No, we're going for a very, very specific person.
他们并不是说，“嘿，你和你的团队要去袭击这个村庄。”不，我们要找一个非常非常具体的人。
And then when you look at it, Hemingway said it best, "Once you've hunted our men long enough and liked it, you'll never care for anything else thereafter." There is nothing like hunting a human being who's hunting you.
然后当你看到它时，海明威说得最好：“一旦你追捕我们的人足够长的时间并且喜欢它，此后你就永远不会关心其他任何事情。”没有什么比追捕正在追捕你的人更好的了。
Nothing.
没有什么。
And you are so afraid you're going to miss it, so that's why you hide injuries, you don't get surgery.
你非常害怕你会错过它，所以这就是为什么你隐藏伤病，你不接受手术。
You do everything you can to put yourself in position to be on the op, to not miss the deployment.
你会尽一切努力让自己处于执行任务的位置，以免错过部署。
DJ Shipley: And I think that's what it is in the essence is, you know, you have all the intel folks and all the technology that are giving you this one thing, and you just stare at them.
DJ Shipley：我认为本质上就是这样，你知道，你拥有所有的情报人员和所有技术，可以为你提供这件事，而你只是盯着他们看。
"I know everything about you.
“我知道你的一切。
Where you live, your secondary house, everybody you talk to, you're right-handed, left-handed, how many windows, how many doors, the inward opening, outward openings, are there storm doors?
你住的地方，你的第二个房子，你说话的每个人，你是右撇子，左撇子，有多少窗户，有多少门，向内的开口，向外的开口，有防风门吗？
What's the windows made...
窗户是做什么的...
I know everything about you, and then we know exactly when we're going to go get you.
我了解你的一切，然后我们就确切地知道什么时候去抓你。
We know you're bad, and we know everything you've done.
我们知道你很坏，我们也知道你所做的一切。
I know everything you've said on that phone for the last six months.
我知道过去六个月你在电话里所说的一切。
I know everything there is to know about you, and we are coming to get you." And when you're successful, it becomes addictive, and you just keep chasing that feeling like, "I am pulling these people off the earth, and it makes a difference.
我知道关于你的一切，我们会来抓你的。”当你成功时，它就会让人上瘾，你就会继续追逐这样的感觉，“我正在把这些人从地球上拉出来，这会带来不同。
I'm not just carpet bombing anything.
我不只是地毯式轰炸任何东西。
Like, that one singular dude has done all of this.
就像，那个独特的家伙已经完成了所有这一切。
We have to remove him.
我们必须除掉他。
Let's go." And it makes you feel like you're important.
我们走吧。”这会让你觉得自己很重要。
DJ Shipley: It makes you feel like people actually need you, and you chase it for as long as possible.
DJ Shipley：这让你感觉人们真的需要你，并且你会尽可能长时间地追逐它。
My buddy Jimmy Hatch wrote a book called "Chasing a Dragon," and that's what it's like.
我的朋友吉米·哈奇写了一本叫做《追龙》的书，内容就是这样。
You chase them long enough, you'll find them, and you don't want to jump off that train.
你追他们足够长的时间，你就会找到他们，而你不想从火车上跳下来。
You're so afraid, and the Teams and the military does a really good job of painting a narrative that, "If you leave this, your life is over.
你非常害怕，而团队和军队确实很好地描绘了这样一个故事：“如果你离开这个，你的生命就结束了。
There's nothing that's going to surpass this.
没有什么能超越这个。
The SEAL teams are the only thing you know how to do, and it's the only thing you'll ever feel at home." And it's the truth.
海豹突击队是你唯一知道如何做的事情，也是你唯一能感到宾至如归的事情。”这是事实。
You get guys to get out and they go work at Goldman Sachs, and they do this, and they do that.
你让人们出去，他们去高盛工作，他们这样做，他们这样做。
If you really get a couple beers in them and you sit down, they're miserable.
如果你真的给他们喝了几杯啤酒然后坐下来，他们就会很痛苦。
They miss it.
他们想念它。
Even all the stuff you didn't like, the things you hated about the military and the people you hated working for, at the end of the...
甚至所有你不喜欢的东西，你讨厌军队的事情以及你讨厌为之工作的人，在最后......
You don't remember any of that.
这些你都不记得了。
You only remember the good times.
你只记得美好的时光。
DJ Shipley: And because you had the entire time at war, the whole aspect, the whole career was just amazing.
DJ Shipley：因为你在战争中度过了整个时期，整个方面，整个职业生涯都非常棒。
You know, standing on the shoulders of giants.
你知道，站在巨人的肩膀上。
I've got to work with people that are the greatest thing you'll never get to see.
我必须和那些你永远看不到的最伟大的人一起工作。
There are 12 people on the planet that were there that saw that thing, and we won't even address it because it's not cool if you address it.
这个星球上有 12 个人看到了那件事，我们甚至不会解决它，因为如果你解决它，那就不酷了。
Like, "I cannot believe you just pulled that off.
就像，“我不敢相信你竟然成功了。
That's the most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life, and you don't even talk about it." The regular people never get to see the level of detail that goes into doing that job.
这是我一生中见过的最令人印象深刻的事情，而你甚至不谈论它。”普通人永远无法看到完成这项工作的细节程度。
They see it on a flat range shoot or whatever, and they're like, "Oh, I can do that." Bet you can't jump out of 35,000 feet at night into a place you've never seen, and then do it.
他们在平地拍摄或其他什么地方看到它，然后他们会说，“哦，我能做到。”我敢打赌，你不可能在夜间从 35,000 英尺的高空跳到一个你从未见过的地方，然后就这么做。
Bet you can't do that.
我打赌你做不到。
Do you know how hard it is to put yourself in a position to do that operation?
你知道让自己去做这个手术有多难吗？
They have no idea, like-
他们不知道，比如——
Andrew Huberman: Well, and they're shooting back at you.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯，他们正在反击你。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: There's that piece.
安德鲁·休伯曼：就是那件作品。
DJ Shipley: You have a two-way range.
DJ Shipley：你有一个双向范围。
Andrew Huberman: The targets on a flat range don't shoot back.
Andrew Huberman：平坦范围内的目标不会还击。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Right.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对。
DJ Shipley: This is a two-way range, this isn't airsoft, this is not "Call of Duty." Like, those are real people, and that dude has five kids, and he's going through that threshold regardless of what's coming at him without a second thought.
DJ Shipley：这是双向射程，这不是气枪，这不是“使命召唤”。就像，那些都是真实的人，那个家伙有五个孩子，无论发生什么，他都会毫不犹豫地度过这个门槛。
It's amazing to see.
看到这真是太神奇了。
And you know, I said to a group of guys the other day, when the tower fell, I've never felt more patriotic in my life.
你知道，有一天我对一群人说，当塔倒塌时，我一生中从未感到如此爱国。
In those moments, you never think about the flag.
在那些时刻，你永远不会想到旗帜。
You never think about the American people, you never think about that.
你永远不会想到美国人民，你永远不会想到这一点。
You think you do it for the country.
你以为你这样做是为了国家。
You really do it, and you stay doing it for the culture.
你确实这样做了，并且为了文化而继续这样做。
The culture of the SEAL teams was worth every ounce you had to pay for it.
海豹突击队的文化是值得你付出的每一分钱的。
And every other group will tell you the exact same thing.
其他所有团体都会告诉你完全相同的事情。
The culture's what keeps you there.
文化是让你留在那里的原因。
You're so afraid to leave it because you know you're never going to find it anywhere else.
你非常害怕离开它，因为你知道你永远无法在其他地方找到它。
And I was the same way.
我也是同样的情况。
I mean, when me and my old lady were going through our worst moments I told her, it's like, "If you don't like the train, jump.
我的意思是，当我和我的老太太经历最糟糕的时刻时，我告诉她，“如果你不喜欢火车，那就跳吧。
I'm not stopping for you.
我不会为你停下来。
I'm not."
我不是。”
DJ Shipley: And that's why I was really concerned when we first got together, because she was married to Danny Dietz, who was on Operation Red Wings, on the ground.
DJ Shipley：这就是为什么当我们第一次聚在一起时我真的很担心，因为她嫁给了丹尼·迪茨（Danny Dietz），丹尼·迪茨在地面上参加红翼行动。
Her dad was a SEAL.
她的父亲是一名海豹突击队队员。
We're embedded in this thing.
我们已经融入到这件事中了。
Andrew Huberman: Oh, wow.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，哇。
So you guys both came up in it?
所以你们俩都来了？
Wow.
哇。
DJ Shipley: Oh, yeah, man.
DJ Shipley：哦，是的，伙计。
We're embedded in this, and I met her three years after Danny passed.
我们已经融入其中，丹尼去世三年后我遇见了她。
I didn't know Danny, I didn't know her.
我不认识丹尼，也不认识她。
Mutual friends, we connected around 2008, '9.
我们是共同的朋友，我们在 2008 年 9 月左右建立了联系。
And I told her when we first...
当我们第一次时我告诉她...
I fell in love with her instantly, and it scared me.
我立刻就爱上了她，这让我感到害怕。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Because I was getting ready to screen and try to go to the tier one command, and the pace was so fast and I was so worried that she'd look at me one day and go, "I can't do this again." And I wasn't going to leave it for her, and I told her that.
DJ Shipley：因为我正准备进行筛查并尝试前往一级指挥部，节奏太快了，我非常担心有一天她会看着我说：“我不能再这样做了。”我不会把它留给她，我告诉了她。
It's like, "Don't ever ask me to leave, because I won't.
就像是，“永远不要让我离开，因为我不会。
If you don't want to do this, I get it.
如果你不想这样做，我明白。
Like, we can be best friends, we can do whatever, but I'm not leaving this for you." And that was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do.
就像，我们可以成为最好的朋友，我们可以做任何事，但我不会把这个留给你。”这是我做过的最困难的事情之一。
And for whatever reason, she's a unicorn.
不管出于什么原因，她都是独角兽。
She has been the quintessential team wife, above and beyond.
她是典型的团队妻子，超越一切。
Every deployment, full steam ahead.
每一次部署，都全力以赴。
Hot water heater blows up, tree falls through the minivan, she doesn't even tell me, she just solves it.
热水器爆炸了，树从小型货车上掉了下来，她甚至没有告诉我，她只是解决了问题。
She's amazing.
她太棒了。
DJ Shipley: And I still blocked her out like I did everything else because I still thought that my love for her was a distraction.
DJ Shipley：我仍然像做其他事情一样将她拒之门外，因为我仍然认为我对她的爱会分散我的注意力。
And like, those are the times I look back on and I regret.
就像，那些是我回顾起来感到后悔的时刻。
But in the moment, I don't think I'd change it.
但目前，我不认为我会改变它。
I don't think I could.
我不认为我可以。
I don't think I could do that job at the level that was required to do it, and have that love hanging around my neck.
我认为我无法以所需的水平完成这项工作，并且无法将这份爱挂在我的脖子上。
I couldn't do it.
我做不到。
It all ended up working out in the wash, but it's hard, man.
这一切最终都在洗涤中解决了，但这很难，伙计。
It's hard to sit there and just wait for your number to get called and just hope it doesn't.
坐在那里等待你的号码被叫到并希望它不会被叫到是很困难的。
Because I mean, the best dudes in the world are getting killed.
因为我的意思是，世界上最好的人都被杀了。
And you can't just...
而且你不能只是...
It's not lack of training, it's not lack of funding, it's not lack of experience, it's not lack of commitment.
这不是缺乏培训，不是缺乏资金，不是缺乏经验，不是缺乏承诺。
What is it?
它是什么？
It's a dangerous job, man.
这是一项危险的工作，伙计。
That's what it is.
就是这样。
It's a super dangerous job, and people are trying to kill you all day long.
这是一项超级危险的工作，人们整天都想杀了你。
You just hope that you're better than they are.
你只是希望你比他们更好。
But some days it happens regardless.
但有些日子，无论如何，这种情况都会发生。
And it's hard.
这很难。
It's hard putting guys in the ground.
把人埋在地下很难。
Especially when you've grown up with them your whole life.
尤其是当你和他们一起长大的时候。
Andrew Huberman: Well, you definitely picked the right woman.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：嗯，你绝对选对了女人。
DJ Shipley: I lassoed a unicorn.
DJ Shipley：我套住了一只独角兽。
I did.
我做到了。
Unbelievable.
难以置信。
Andrew Huberman: I have a good friend...
安德鲁·休伯曼：我有一个好朋友......
Because I know you've got daughters.
因为我知道你有女儿。
And he said, "You want to marry a woman, that were you to have daughters with her, you'd be very happy if they turned out like her."
他说：“你想娶一个女人，如果你和她生下女儿，如果她们长得像她，你会很高兴。”
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Which is one of the best pieces of advice that I didn't hear until fairly recently.
Andrew Huberman：这是我直到最近才听到的最好的建议之一。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And the moment I heard it, I was like, "Wow, that's really good." You know, they don't tell us that in high school.
安德鲁·休伯曼：当我听到它的那一刻，我就想，“哇，那真的很棒。”你知道，他们在高中时不会告诉我们这些。
DJ Shipley: No, they don't.
DJ Shipley：不，他们没有。
No, they don't.
不，他们没有。
Andrew Huberman: But clearly you bullseyed on that one.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但显然你在这一点上胡言乱语。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So you're oping, you're alive, guys are dying, you got a family.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以你在行动，你还活着，人们正在死去，你有一个家庭。
And it sounds like you love it, too.
听起来你也喜欢它。
You're loving the work.
你热爱这份工作。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Which is so key.
Andrew Huberman：这非常关键。
Right?
正确的？
I don't...
我不...
Because in moments of stress, and all the other stuff that's clearly important, love of country, flags, and all that stuff, it sounds like it's necessary, but it's not sufficient in those moments.
因为在有压力的时刻，所有其他显然重要的东西，对国家的热爱，国旗，以及所有这些东西，听起来似乎是必要的，但在那些时刻这是不够的。
The culture is really the glue.
文化确实是粘合剂。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Then you start incurring some damage.
Andrew Huberman：然后你就会开始受到一些损害。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So what do you see in your mind as kind of the first high impact event that's not someone else dying?
安德鲁·休伯曼：那么，您认为第一个没有其他人死亡的高影响事件是什么？
That your body is starting to take a toll?
您的身体开始受到损害吗？
DJ Shipley: Hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
DJ Shipley: I had a lot of emotional stuff happen to me in that second deployment.
DJ Shipley：在第二次部署中，我发生了很多情绪化的事情。
My idol, Matty Roberts, I've talked about him a couple of times...
我的偶像马蒂·罗伯茨，我已经谈过他好几次了……
I really, really hung onto that dude.
我真的真的很迷恋那个家伙。
He was my true north.
他是我真正的北方。
He was the guy.
他就是那个人。
And when he got shot up...
而当他被击中时...
When you see it happen, you know, his arm shot off, it flipped around his shoulder, it looked like his arm was completely gone.
当你看到它发生时，你知道，他的手臂被击飞，绕过他的肩膀，看起来他的手臂完全消失了。
My fingers were inside his arm, we're trying to solve this thing, they're shooting at us from really, really close proximity.
我的手指在他的手臂里，我们正在努力解决这个问题，他们从非常非常近的距离向我们射击。
And I think it still has the record...
我认为它仍然有记录......
I'd have to ask J.
我得问问J。
Redman, but I think that was the closest call for fire mission the entire Iraq war.
雷德曼，但我认为这是整个伊拉克战争中最接近的火力任务。
Like, inside of 15 meters.
比如，15米以内。
I mean, 40 Mike Mike from AC-130 gunship.
我的意思是，来自 AC-130 武装直升机的 40 名迈克·迈克。
It was on top of you.
它就在你上面。
A belt fed machine gun just chewing us up.
一挺弹带供弹机枪正在吞噬我们。
DJ Shipley: Everybody shot up except for me and one other guy, and we're all crowded behind this tractor tire just...
DJ Shipley：除了我和另外一个人，每个人都开枪了，我们都挤在拖拉机轮胎后面......
You felt like a victim.
你感觉自己像个受害者。
And at one point, right when the initial contact happened, I sprinted to a tree and got a piece of cover.
有一次，就在第一次接触发生时，我冲到一棵树上，找到了一块掩护物。
So there's me, three guys that are all shot up, and one other guy who's behind this tractor tire.
所以有我，三个都被枪杀的人，还有一个在拖拉机轮胎后面的人。
And I'm screaming at him like, "Hey, I've got an out.
我对他尖叫，“嘿，我已经出局了。
Come over here." And he screams, "I'm Black Hawk Down, like, nope.
过来一下吧。”他尖叫道：“我是黑鹰坠落，就像，不。
Come to me." And you're looking back at it, you can see all the muzzle flash.
到我这里来吧。”当你回头看时，你可以看到所有的枪口闪光。
And just the way it happened, you had blue forces or friendlies that were in behind him, so you couldn't shoot into this because you knew there were friendlies who were back there.
事情就这样发生了，你有蓝色部队或友军在他身后，所以你不能射击，因为你知道后面有友军。
Andrew Huberman: Hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
DJ Shipley: So you're in this weird dance where I can't do anything.
DJ Shipley：所以你在这种奇怪的舞蹈中，我无能为力。
Like, I felt helpless.
就像，我感到无助。
I'm getting rounds poured all over me, and at a certain point you just go, "I'd rather run back into the front of this thing and get killed with all of them than be the lone survivor.
我的身上到处都是子弹，到了某个时刻你就会说，“我宁愿跑回这东西的前面，和他们一起被杀，也不愿成为唯一的幸存者。
I don't want to walk through this.
我不想经历这个。
I don't want to live with the survivor's guilt.
我不想带着幸存者的愧疚生活。
I'd rather just run back up, and let's just catch it and be done with it." And I ran right back into the center of it and dropped down behind that tire, and started working all the guys back and putting on tourniquets, and QuikClot, and all the stuff.
我宁愿跑回来，让我们抓住它并解决掉它。”我就跑回了它的中心，落在那个轮胎后面，开始让所有的人都回来，戴上止血带、QuikClot 和所有的东西。
When I came back from that, I was mentally scarred for the rest of my life.
当我从那件事中回来时，我的余生在精神上都受到了创伤。
And I just never ever processed it.
我只是从来没有处理过它。
I just blocked it off.
我刚刚把它屏蔽了。
Andrew Huberman: Because it was so close?
Andrew Huberman：因为距离太近了？
DJ Shipley: I think because it was the first time I felt helpless.
DJ Shipley：我想是因为这是我第一次感到无助。
Like, I was just waiting to die, right?
就像，我只是在等死，对吧？
The guy that I looked up to, that I wanted to be like, he was a physical representation of what I thought the essence of being a Navy SEAL was.
我尊敬的那个人，我想成为的那个人，他是我认为海豹突击队本质的代表。
And he's dying in my arms, and I can't shoot back.
他就死在我怀里，而我却无法还手。
We're hunkered down, and rounds are just skipping all over you, and you're just...
我们蹲下来，子弹在你身上跳来跳去，而你只是……
DJ Shipley: If that JTAC hadn't called in a fire mission, we'd all be dead.
DJ Shipley：如果 JTAC 没有呼叫火力任务，我们就都死了。
I mean, it's only a matter of time before he stands up and just realizes he can just walk us down.
我的意思是，他站起来并意识到他可以带我们走下去只是时间问题。
There's no illume.
没有任何照明。
Night vision's all messed up at this point.
夜视功能此时已经完全混乱了。
I mean, everything that could have went wrong, went wrong, and now we're inside of 10 meters getting pounded by a belt-fed machine gun.
我的意思是，一切可能出错的地方都出错了，现在我们在 10 米之内遭到了弹链供弹机枪的猛烈攻击。
DJ Shipley: You can't move.
DJ Shipley：你不能动。
And it was the first time in my life when I truly felt helpless.
这是我一生中第一次真正感到无助。
And everything worked out.
一切顺利。
Everybody ended up surviving it.
每个人最终都幸存下来。
We got them in the helicopter and did all that.
我们把他们带上直升机并完成了这一切。
I just think I never got an opportunity to ever talk about it.
我只是觉得我从来没有机会谈论它。
DJ Shipley: And when I went back home, you know, you're taking a shower.
DJ Shipley：当我回到家时，你知道，你正在洗澡。
The showers in Iraq aren't the best, as you can imagine, and I'm standing there in ankle-deep sludge water that's just filled with blood.
正如你可以想象的那样，伊拉克的淋浴不是最好的，而我站在齐脚踝深的污泥水中，里面充满了血。
I mean, it's all in my mouth, it's all over my hair, and I remember taking the shower and just seeing it all and not knowing if he lived or not.
我的意思是，它都在我嘴里，都在我的头发上，我记得洗澡时看到了这一切，却不知道他是否还活着。
And thinking, 'Do I want to be washing this off?' Because if they call me in 20 minutes and tell me he's dead, this is the last piece of him I have.
并想，“我想把它洗掉吗？”因为如果他们在 20 分钟内打电话给我并告诉我他死了，这就是我所拥有的他的最后一部分。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: So I saved the cammies, I saved the boots, I saved the shirts, I saved everything I wore.
DJ Shipley：所以我拯救了吊带背心，我拯救了靴子，我拯救了衬衫，我拯救了我穿的所有东西。
I shoved it all in a bag, and I kept it in case he died.
我把所有东西都塞进袋子里，留着以防万一他死了。
But it was hard, man.
但这很难，伙计。
The back of that helicopter looked like 'Black Hawk Down.' Just blowout kits and tourniquets and magazines and rounds all over it, and just the most blood I've ever seen.
那架直升机的后部看起来像“黑鹰坠落”。到处都是防喷套件、止血带、弹匣和子弹，还有我见过的最多的血。
And you're just slipping and sliding in it, just like out of the movies.
你就在里面滑来滑去，就像电影里的一样。
And it's not.
但事实并非如此。
It's dudes you've wrapped your arms around and told you I've loved you 100 times.
是你们张开双臂告诉你们我爱你们100次的伙计们。
DJ Shipley: You're like, 'This is not what I thought it was going to be like.' I didn't think this was going to be like this.
DJ Shipley：你会说，“这不是我想象的那样。”我没想到事情会变成这样。
I didn't because I'd never seen it.
我没有，因为我从来没有见过。
My dad has never been through that.
我爸爸从来没有经历过这种事。
None of his friends ever went through that.
他的朋友们都没有经历过这种事。
Now I am this 20-year-old kid, and this is what I'm living with.
现在我是一个20岁的孩子，这就是我的生活。
And it was hard because you got to walk back in, and the culture of the SEAL team says, "We're not talking about that." Nobody's ever addressing that.
这很困难，因为你必须回去，而海豹突击队的文化说，“我们不是在谈论这个。”从来没有人解决过这个问题。
DJ Shipley: When you see him, you know, you always make a joke like, "Hey, did you scream any louder?
DJ Shipley：当你看到他时，你知道，你总是会开玩笑，“嘿，你尖叫得更大声了吗？
Like, I'm surprised we all didn't get killed by how loud you were yelling." You always make a joke about it.
就像，我很惊讶我们都没有被你大喊大叫而杀死。”你总是拿这件事开玩笑。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It wasn't a joke, man.
DJ Shipley：这不是玩笑，伙计。
I was traumatized.
我受到了创伤。
Like, I worshipped that guy.
就像，我崇拜那个家伙。
And to see the reality, like he's not Superman, and neither am I.
看到现实，就像他不是超人一样，我也不是。
Fortunately for me, he did the most heroic thing I've ever seen, and that moment has stuck with me forever.
对我来说幸运的是，他做了我见过的最英勇的事情，那一刻永远铭记在心。
DJ Shipley: When that initial contact happened, everybody got shot, including him.
DJ Shipley：当第一次接触发生时，每个人都被枪杀，包括他。
He stood back up and ran forward and grabbed our corpsman, who was all shot up, and started dragging him back, and I watched it happen.
他站了起来，向前跑去，抓住了我们中弹的医护兵，开始把他拖回来，我看着这一切发生。
DJ Shipley: Gets shot again, and it spins him, drops him on the floor, and he gets right back up.
DJ Shipley：再次中弹，他旋转起来，摔在地板上，然后他又站了起来。
Picks him up again, gets shot.
再次把他抱起来，被枪杀。
Arm spins over his shoulder, keeps dragging him back.
手臂在他的肩膀上旋转，不断把他拖回来。
Gets shot again, hits the ground, gets back up, keeps dragging him.
再次中弹，摔倒在地，爬起来，继续拖着他。
And so, at no point was he ever going to leave that dude.
所以，他永远不会离开那个家伙。
Could he have?
他可以吗？
Yeah.
是的。
He could have run and dove behind that tractor tire and sent me out there to go fetch him.
他本可以跑到拖拉机轮胎后面，然后派我去接他。
He was so committed to the process of 'I am never going to leave you.'
他非常致力于“我永远不会离开你”的过程。
DJ Shipley: If he had taken one right in the head and he would have died right then.
DJ Shipley：如果他的头部中了一枪，他就会立刻死掉。
He would have never batted an eye about it.
他对此绝不会眨眼睛。
If he had known the outcome, he would have went in anyway.
如果他知道结果的话，他无论如何都会进去的。
DJ Shipley: And that part has stuck with me the entire time.
DJ Shipley：这部分一直困扰着我。
Like, a true believer will go further than anyone else in the moment of total duress because they're conditioned to it.
就像，一个真正的信徒在完全受到胁迫的时刻会比其他人走得更远，因为他们已经习惯了。
He's already made up in his mind, "How far are you willing to go?" "The entire way right now.
他已经下定决心了：“你愿意走多远？” “现在全程。
I'm just looking for an opportunity to prove it." And that was his moment to prove it, and he proved it to everybody.
我只是在寻找机会来证明这一点。”那是他证明这一点的时刻，他向所有人证明了这一点。
DJ Shipley: And still to this day, I mean, probably still my biggest inspiration in the entire team is Matt Roberts.
DJ Shipley：直到今天，我的意思是，整个团队中我最大的灵感仍然是马特·罗伯茨。
Unbelievable human.
令人难以置信的人类。
Not trying to get emotional, but yeah.
并不是想表达情绪，但是是的。
Just an amazing human.
只是一个了不起的人。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, intense in every way to hear about, so I can only imagine what it's like to be there, and your reverence for people around you who do amazing things is super impressive.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：我的意思是，在各个方面都很强烈，所以我只能想象在那里的感觉，而且你对周围做出惊人事情的人的尊敬令人印象深刻。
I notice you're constantly noticing the people that you've been blessed to be around that show you things.
我注意到你经常注意到那些你有幸身边的人向你展示一些东西。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And the extent to which you internalize it is awesome.
Andrew Huberman：你将其内在化的程度是非常棒的。
I realize it also carries some weight when they're not doing well.
我意识到，当他们表现不佳时，它也会带来一些影响。
It's so interesting.
太有趣了。
I hope people hear what I'm hearing.
我希望人们能听到我所听到的。
I'm sure they are, which is that, it's never about you.
我确信他们是，就是这样，这与你无关。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: It's always about seeing this other person that you, you know, were like of almost a superhero status.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你总是会看到另一个人，你知道，他几乎就像一个超级英雄。
They're human, and it sort of brings reality back, but all the while, you're a central figure in this interaction.
他们是人类，这有点带回现实，但一直以来，你都是这种互动的中心人物。
This wasn't like watching it on an iPad from a distance and wishing you could do something.
这不像是在远处用 iPad 观看并希望自己能做点什么。
You're in there too, and that's not lost on us as you tell this.
你也在那里，当你讲述这件事时，我们并没有忘记这一点。
Andrew Huberman: So, you're carrying this in your head, and you're still going back out.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，你脑子里一直记着这个，但你还是要回去。
So you didn't process it then.
所以你当时没有处理它。
Let's talk about you getting electrocuted.
我们来谈谈你触电的事吧。
DJ Shipley: Mm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Because you keep OOPing.
Andrew Huberman：因为你一直在进行 OOP。
Fortunately, you're not killed.
幸运的是，你没有被杀。
And then you're pretty close to the time when you can leave feeling like you've done sufficient time in the teams.
然后你就差不多可以离开了，感觉自己已经在团队中度过了足够的时间。
You've done your work.
你已经完成你的工作了。
Was there a desire to stay in past 20 years, or were you-
过去20年里你是否有留下来的愿望，或者你——
DJ Shipley: Oh, yeah.
DJ 希普利：哦，是的。
I never planned on getting out.
我从来没有打算出去。
Never.
绝不。
I...
我...
Nope.
不。
Andrew Huberman: You wanted to be one of these so-called 'Bullfrogs,' one of these guys.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你想成为这些所谓的“牛蛙”中的一员，这些人中的一员。
DJ Shipley: Yeah, or-
DJ Shipley：是的，或者-
Andrew Huberman: I know one I won't mention his name because it...
Andrew Huberman：我知道一个我不会提及他的名字，因为它......
he won't appreciate it.
他不会感激的。
Andrew Huberman: But he did something like 32 years or something, and he's a friend.
Andrew Huberman：但他做了大约 32 年之类的事情，而且他是一个朋友。
I actually asked him once what his training regimen is.
我实际上曾经问过他他的训练方案是什么。
He's getting up there now.
他现在正站起来。
He's going to give me s*** for saying that, but he's in great shape, obviously.
他会因为我这么说而骂我，但显然他的状态很好。
And he says he finds some way to make sure that he's breathing super hard and his heart rate is maxed for an hour a day.
他说他找到了一些方法来确保他的呼吸非常困难并且他的心率每天有一个小时达到最高。
Just work out.
锻炼一下吧。
I'm like, it doesn't get any simpler than that.
我想，没有比这更简单的了。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I didn't ask him the variety of things he's done to accomplish that, but I think it's running, I think it's lifting heavy objects, I think it's swimming, I think it's...
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我没有问他为实现这一目标所做的各种事情，但我认为是跑步，我认为是举起重物，我认为是游泳，我认为是......
But, yeah, it doesn't get any simpler than that.
但是，是的，没有比这更简单的了。
In addition to his physical durability, his mental durability, he says, is directly linked to that.
他说，除了他的身体耐力之外，他的精神耐力也与之直接相关。
An hour a day, breathing as hard as he can at max heart rate.
每天一小时，以最大心率尽力呼吸。
Andrew Huberman: That's that sort of Bullfrog mentality.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这就是那种牛蛙心态。
DJ Shipley: Pretty simple.
DJ Shipley：很简单。
Andrew Huberman: So you wanted to be one of those guys, but you decided at some point, it might be wise to lean into the family life?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以你想成为这些人中的一员，但你在某个时候决定，融入家庭生活可能是明智的？
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: No. No. God, no. Nope.
DJ Shipley：不，不，上帝，不。没有。
I-
我-
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
DJ Shipley: So...
DJ 希普利：所以……
my-
我的-
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
Bad guess, Andrew.
猜错了，安德鲁。
Yeah.
是的。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
My first major injury, I made it all the way through.
我第一次受重伤，但我还是挺过来了。
You know, I came in 2002.
你知道，我是 2002 年来的。
In 2010, I was going through selection for the Tier One organization, and about three-quarters of the way through.
2010 年，我正在经历一级组织的选拔，现在已经完成了大约四分之三。
We do a big skydive block out in Arizona, and I love jumping, it's my jam, and I had a bad landing.
我们在亚利桑那州进行了一次大型跳伞活动，我喜欢跳跃，这是我的爱好，但我着陆得很糟糕。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Downwind landing, hit this ravine, and I snapped my femoral neck, broke that thing.
DJ Shipley：顺风着陆，撞到了这个峡谷，我折断了我的股骨颈，打破了那个东西。
And I was so afraid they were going to wash me out of the program.
我非常害怕他们会把我从这个项目中剔除。
I just didn't say anything.
我只是什么也没说。
DJ Shipley: So I can barely walk.
DJ Shipley：所以我几乎无法行走。
I can't drive a car.
我不会开车。
I mean, it's full atrophy.
我的意思是，它完全萎缩了。
It's bad, and I'm jacked up on so many Toradols, Tramadols and 800 milligram Motrin that I'm able to get through and jump.
情况很糟糕，我服用了很多托拉多、曲马多和 800 毫克美林，所以我能够熬过去并跳起来。
They know something's wrong with me, but they know I'm not going to quit.
他们知道我出了问题，但他们知道我不会放弃。
They know I'm not going to ask for any help, so as long as I can pass the evolutions, we're good, and all I have to do is jump.
他们知道我不会寻求任何帮助，所以只要我能通过进化就可以了，我所要做的就是跳下去。
DJ Shipley: We graduate that, you know, we get drafted into all the different organizations you're going to go to, and I walked into rehab and I went, "Okay, now that that's over, my back's broken." And they were like, "Oh.
DJ Shipley：我们毕业了，你知道，我们被选入你要去的所有不同的组织，然后我走进康复中心，我说，“好吧，现在一切都结束了，我的背断了。”他们就像，“哦。
Why do you say that?" And they told him, like, we got an MRI on my hip when we were in Arizona, and nothing showed up.
为什么这么说？”他们告诉他，我们在亚利桑那州时对我的臀部进行了核磁共振检查，但什么也没显示出来。
They were like, "We think you tore your hip flexor." And I was like, "Oh, if I tore my hip flexor, I don't care.
他们的反应是，“我们认为你的髋屈肌撕裂了。”我当时想，“哦，如果我髋部屈肌撕裂，我不在乎。
We're good." I thought it was my back.
我们很好。”我以为那是我的背。
We get home, they run new images, and my femoral neck is snapped off, and you know the deal.
我们回到家，他们运行了新的图像，我的股骨颈被折断了，你知道是怎么回事。
DJ Shipley: You lose a femoral neck, blood supply, total hip replacement, and you're out of the military.
DJ Shipley：你失去了股骨颈、血液供应、全髋关节置换术，然后你就退出了军队。
And I walked in, saw the doctor, and he's sitting there in front of my command master chief and all the rehab guys, and he goes, "Hey, we got emergency surgery for you tomorrow morning at 07." I went, "No." And he's like, "What?" "I'm not getting surgery.
我走进去，看到了医生，他坐在我的指挥长和所有康复人员面前，他说，“嘿，我们明天早上 7 点为你做紧急手术。”我说：“不。”他说：“什么？” “我不会接受手术。
I've never had surgery.
我从来没有做过手术。
I'm not getting surgery.
我不会接受手术。
Nope, I got deployment coming up, I'm not doing that."
不，我即将进行部署，我不会这样做。”
DJ Shipley: And my command master chief looked at me, and he goes, "Um, let me rephrase this.
DJ 希普利：我的指挥长看着我，然后说道：“嗯，让我重新表述一下。
You're getting surgery tomorrow at 07.
你明天七点就要接受手术。
If you don't, I'm going to s*** candy out of the program." It's like, "Oh.
如果你不这样做，我就把糖果从程序中剔除。”就像，“哦。
Okay, what is it?" And he's like, "15 inches of titanium, three lag bolts, we're going to pump them in there.
好吧，那是什么？”他说，“15 英寸的钛金属，三个方头螺栓，我们要把它们泵入那里。
Here's a rehab protocol.
这是康复方案。
You're still going to deploy in..." You know, I think it was a month and a half, and we did.
你仍然要部署......”你知道，我认为那是一个半月，我们做到了。
But I got through, from the time I broke it, I did another 85 skydives on it.
但我还是挺过来了，从我摔坏它开始，我又用它跳了 85 次。
DJ Shipley: Went through Utah, I mean, up and, up and down that crazy elevation, just really just sucking it up, but it was a test for mental resiliency.
DJ Shipley：穿过犹他州，我的意思是，在那个疯狂的高度上上下下，真的只是忍受它，但这是对心理弹性的考验。
How far are you willing to push to be a part of the organization the entire way?
为了成为组织的一部分，你愿意付出多大的努力？
Andrew Huberman: Did your team teammates know you had a broken femur?
Andrew Huberman：你的队友知道你股骨骨折吗？
DJ Shipley: Oh yeah.
DJ 希普利：哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
DJ Shipley: We did the emergency surgery.
DJ Shipley：我们做了紧急手术。
It had a nasty complication, got infected, you know, wound vacs, the whole thing, and they were so cool.
它有一个严重的并发症，被感染，你知道，伤口真空吸尘器，整个事情，而且它们太酷了。
DJ Shipley: They flew a rehab guy over to Afghanistan with me, and that's how we tested out.
DJ Shipley：他们派了一名康复人员和我一起飞往阿富汗，这就是我们进行测试的方式。
And, you know, the final test, like, we're doing VO2 maxes and broad jumps and all the things to make sure your hip can take it.
而且，你知道，最后的测试，比如，我们正在做最大摄氧量和跳远以及所有确保你的臀部可以承受的事情。
And the very last thing was this huge box, probably a 48-inch box.
最后就是这个巨大的盒子，大概是48英寸的盒子。
DJ Shipley: I've got a full kit on, and he looks at me, his name is Mike, and he goes, "Okay, we're going to have you drop off this and land on the bad leg." And he goes, "DJ, do not step off that box if you don't think it'll hold." I knew it wouldn't hold.
DJ Shipley：我已经穿上了全套装备，他看着我，他的名字叫迈克，然后说道：“好吧，我们会让你把这个放下来，用坏腿着陆。”他说：“DJ，如果你认为它装不下，就不要离开那个盒子。”我知道它不会坚持下去。
There's no way it's going to hold.
没有办法坚持下去。
Like, it feels so bad inside me.
就像，我内心感觉很糟糕。
Stepped off it.
走下了它。
Boom.
繁荣。
Hit.
打。
It felt like a bolt of lightning went through me.
感觉就像一道闪电穿过我。
Andrew Huberman: Mm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
DJ Shipley: And I looked at him, and he went, "How do you feel?" I went, "100%." Got my stuff, got in the helicopter.
DJ Shipley：我看着他，他问道，“你感觉怎么样？”我说：“100%。”拿到我的东西，上了直升机。
Made it through all that.
熬过了这一切。
The screws ended up backing out, going through my IT band a couple of months later.
几个月后，螺丝最终脱落，穿过我的 IT 带。
Had to have another surgery, and it was just a long history of things that happened to me, but it really got you used to...
不得不再做一次手术，这只是发生在我身上的一段很长的历史，但它确实让你习惯了......
We talked about it before.
我们之前谈过。
Are you hurt or are you injured?
你受伤了还是受伤了？
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I got to the point very, very fast in the SEAL teams.
DJ Shipley：我在海豹突击队中非常非常快地谈到了这一点。
I could not tell the difference.
我无法区分。
I don't know the difference.
我不知道有什么区别。
Everything hurts.
一切都很痛。
Everything's got a limitation, and I'm just pushing through it regardless.
凡事都有一个限度，我只是不顾一切地突破它。
And again, it's not like I'm a unicorn.
再说一遍，我并不是独角兽。
The amount of people who need major reconstructive surgeries, eight out of ten.
需要进行大型重建手术的人数，十分之八。
Everybody needs it.
每个人都需要它。
And they just don't do it because you have a deployment coming up or you have a trip you can't miss.
他们只是因为你即将进行部署或者你有一个不能错过的旅行而这样做。
There's something going on to where you can't miss it, so you sacrifice yourself.
有些事情正在发生，你无法错过，所以你牺牲了自己。
Just don't do it.
只是不要这样做。
The same thing was happening.
同样的事情也发生了。
DJ Shipley: So, I had a gnarly shoulder dislocation.
DJ Shipley：所以，我的肩膀脱臼了。
Blew it out, had to have major reconstructive surgery.
毁掉了，必须进行重大重建手术。
I had an admin wound, four rounds of plastic surgery, couldn't get it to close, and all the complications are happening.
我有一个管理伤口，做了四轮整形手术，无法让它闭合，所有的并发症都在发生。
After the shoulder surgery, it was so bad that medical retirement was imminent.
肩部手术后，情况非常糟糕，医疗退休迫在眉睫。
So, "Hey, we're going to medically retire you.
所以，“嘿，我们要让你因病退休。
Same benefits if you do 20 years, but you can't do this job anymore." They wanted to fuse my lower back, my neck, shoulder surgery, shoulder surgery, double hip surgery.
如果你干了 20 年，也会得到同样的好处，但你不能再做这份工作了。”他们想要融合我的下背部、颈部、肩部手术、肩部手术、双髋部手术。
DJ Shipley: So, I had three years of surgeries lined up, and it's like, 'I'm not going to sit here in rehab for three years doing surgeries, taking up a slot.
DJ Shipley：所以，我已经准备了三年的手术，就像是，‘我不会在康复中心坐三年的时间做手术，占据一个位置。
I'm not doing it.' I was like, 'I'll just get out.
我不这样做。我当时想，‘我就出去吧。
I'll retire and I'll deal with it on my own.' That's kind of the whole process, so I got put on a laundry list of medications.
我会退休，我会自己处理这件事。”这就是整个过程，所以我被列入了一份药物清单。
Sixty-something pills a day, probably 25, 30 different prescriptions we were on.
每天服用六十多种药片，可能有 25、30 种不同的处方。
Andrew Huberman: Goodness.
安德鲁·休伯曼：天哪。
DJ Shipley: I mean, Cymbalta, Adderall, Gabapentin, heavy, heavy doses.
DJ Shipley：我的意思是，Cymbalta、Adderall、加巴喷丁，非常非常大的剂量。
Andrew Huberman: Cymbalta?
安德鲁·休伯曼：辛巴塔？
They got you on antidepressants?
他们让你服用抗抑郁药吗？
DJ Shipley: Oh, yeah.
DJ 希普利：哦，是的。
And yeah, Cymbalta, when you come off Cymbalta, it gives you the jolts.
是的，Cymbalta，当你离开 Cymbalta 时，它会给你带来震动。
Andrew Huberman: Oh.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哦。
DJ Shipley: Yeah, Cymbalta's a treat.
DJ Shipley：是的，Cymbalta 是一种享受。
Lyrica.
抒情诗。
I've been on everything.
我已经经历了一切。
Amitriptyline to sleep, taking a heavy dose of those.
阿米替林入睡，服用大剂量的那些。
Ambien, obviously.
显然是安必恩。
Everything.
一切。
Everything in between, you take it all, and you don't realize that you're smashed all day because you're not hitting alcohol.
介于两者之间的一切，你都接受了，你没有意识到你一整天都崩溃了，因为你没有喝酒。
You don't realize that you're processing pharmaceuticals 24 hours a day, every single day, 52 weeks out of the year.
您没有意识到您一年中 52 周、每天 24 小时都在处理药品。
You don't realize it.
你没有意识到这一点。
You're not sober.
你不清醒。
And that was my hardest thing to kind of walk away with.
这是我最难摆脱的事情。
I came out of this rehab program.
我从这个康复计划中出来了。
They put me on these medications, and I felt like a million bucks.
他们让我服用这些药物，我感觉自己就像赚了一百万美元一样。
DJ Shipley: I got really hurt in 2013.
DJ Shipley：2013 年我受了很大的伤。
Amnesia, forgetting where I was at, and when I went down, they gave me these pills, and I felt like Jesus came down and touched me.
失忆症，忘记了我在哪里，当我倒下时，他们给了我这些药片，我感觉耶稣降临并触摸了我。
"You gave me Adderall and Cymbalta." It's like, "Okay, what else do you have?" "Oh, we got this, we got this, we got..." "Give them to me." "Stellate ganglion blocks in my throat." "Give it to me." "Reiki." "Give it to me.
“你给了我阿得拉和欣百达。”就像，“好吧，你还有什么？” “哦，我们得到了这个，我们得到了这个，我们得到了……”“把它们给我。” “星状神经节卡住了我的喉咙。” “给我吧。” “灵气。” “给我吧。
Anything you have, I'll do it."
只要你有什么，我都会做。”
DJ Shipley: There's not a protocol on the planet I have not done, and I've done them at 100% full value.
DJ Shipley：世界上没有我没有完成的协议，而且我已经以 100% 的全部价值完成了它们。
And they buy you a little bit of relief.
他们会给你带来一点安慰。
We got to the point where I was taking so many different medications.
我们已经到了我服用多种不同药物的地步。
A bunch of them you were not allowed to take together.
其中一堆你不被允许带在一起。
And I had a new doctor come in.
一位新医生进来了。
He's trying to refill all my prescriptions, and he's like, "You can't take these four medications in combination." He's like, "It'll give you a stroke, DJ.
他试图补充我所有的处方，他说，“你不能同时服用这四种药物。”他说，“这会让你中风，DJ。
It'll kill you." And I went, "Well, it's 2019.
它会杀了你。”我说：“好吧，现在是 2019 年了。
I've been taking them since 2010.
我从 2010 年起就开始服用它们。
Like, I have to keep taking them." He's like, "You're going to have to do a med washout."
就像，我必须继续服用它们。”他说，“你必须接受药物清洗。”
DJ Shipley: They sent me down to Walter Reed, the 7 East, it's a neurobehavioral ward.
DJ Shipley：他们把我送到了 Walter Reed，7 East，那是一个神经行为病房。
I don't know that.
我不知道。
I think it's like a team guy clinic where we're going to go work on shoulder mobility and whatever else.
我认为这就像一个团队诊所，我们将在那里进行肩部活动度和其他方面的研究。
Because I just came after-
因为我刚刚来——
Andrew Huberman: Sorry, that laugh, couldn't help it.
Andrew Huberman：抱歉，我忍不住笑了。
DJ Shipley: Oh, I mean, you know, I was...
DJ Shipley：哦，我的意思是，你知道，我...
You don't know, right?
你不知道，对吧？
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I don't know.
DJ 希普利：我不知道。
I go down there.
我去那里。
They start taking my shoelaces.
他们开始拿走我的鞋带。
They take everything I have, I'm like, "What is this?" I mean, there are fighter pilots who are in there.
他们拿走了我拥有的一切，我想，“这是什么？”我的意思是，里面有战斗机飞行员。
There are Green Berets who are in there.
里面有绿色贝雷帽。
Andrew Huberman: You're like, "I went through SERE school.
Andrew Huberman：你会说，“我上过 SERE 学校。
I don't need this."
我不需要这个。”
Andrew Huberman: SERE's kind of like...
Andrew Huberman：SERE 有点像......
it's torture training.
这是酷刑训练。
Yeah.
是的。
DJ Shipley: Yeah, and I'm like, "I don't know why I'm doing this." They don't tell me it's a neurobehavioral ward.
DJ Shipley：是的，我想，“我不知道我为什么要这样做。”他们没有告诉我这是神经行为病房。
They tell me it's for a med washout.
他们告诉我这是为了药物冲洗。
He's like, "Hey, you're going to go there." He's like, "You're going to focus on shoulder rehab," because there was a gnarly shoulder surgery.
他就像，“嘿，你要去那里。”他说，“你要专注于肩部康复，”因为有一个粗糙的肩部手术。
He's like, "They're going to focus on that.
他说：“他们会专注于此。
We'll get you washed out of all these meds.
我们会让你摆脱所有这些药物。
We'll come back.
我们会回来的。
You'll be in a good spot.
你会处于一个好位置。
Medical retirement, transition to next phase." I'm like, "Awesome."
医疗退休，过渡到下一阶段。”我说：“太棒了。”
DJ Shipley: I went into that hospital broken.
DJ Shipley：我走进那家医院时精神崩溃了。
My eyes were jet black.
我的眼睛是漆黑的。
I was 180 pounds, just death warmed over.
我那时体重 180 磅，死亡刚刚结束。
I didn't want to do anything.
我什么也不想做。
And I lay in that hospital bed, and I had the most amazing nursing staff.
我躺在医院的病床上，身边有最出色的护理人员。
I lay down on that bed, and I started getting sick.
我躺在那张床上，开始生病。
And I was like, 'Oh, f***ing food poisoning.' Throwing up, pissing myself.
我当时想，“哦，该死的食物中毒。”呕吐，生我自己的气。
DJ Shipley: I mean, the whole thing.
DJ Shipley：我的意思是，整个事情。
And I remember throwing up in this bucket, and this beautiful Black nurse has this wet washcloth, and she's washing my face off, and I was like, "I don't know what I ate." I was like, "I'm so sorry." I was like, "I feel so embarrassed." And she's like, "It's okay.
我记得我吐在这个桶里，这位美丽的黑人护士拿着湿毛巾，她正在给我洗脸，我当时想，“我不知道我吃了什么。”我当时想，“我很抱歉。”我当时想，“我感到很尴尬。”她说：“没关系。
It's okay." I was like, "I haven't eaten anything." I was like, "I never get food poisoned." And she's like, "Oh, honey, it's okay." And I can remember the look she gave me, like, "You have no idea why you're here."
没关系。”我当时就想：“我什么都没吃。”我当时想，“我从来没有食物中毒过。”她说：“哦，亲爱的，没关系。”我还记得她给我的表情，就像“你不知道你为什么在这里。”
Andrew Huberman: Wow.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哇。
DJ Shipley: I was like that for probably 10 days.
DJ Shipley：我大概有 10 天都是这样。
Around the 10th or 11th day, I finally came out of my room.
大约第十天或第十一天的时候，我终于从房间里出来了。
I got sunglasses on.
我戴上了太阳镜。
My photophobia was so bad.
我的畏光症非常严重。
If you shine light in my eyes, I'd throw up.
如果你用光照射我的眼睛，我就会呕吐。
And with my TBI, it was controlling everything I had.
有了我的创伤性脑损伤，它控制了我所拥有的一切。
I wasn't sleeping, had insomnia, had everything you could have.
我没有睡觉，失眠了，拥有了你能拥有的一切。
And that was the first time in a decade I had been truly sober.
那是十年来我第一次真正清醒。
No booze, no nicotine, no pharmaceuticals of any kind, and that was my baseline.
不喝酒，不吸尼古丁，不吸任何药物，这就是我的底线。
DJ Shipley: And if you had given me the ability, I would have closed out that chapter right then.
DJ Shipley：如果你给了我这种能力，我就会立即结束这一章。
I was done.
我已经完成了。
I could not believe what I had done to myself, what I had turned myself into, and there's no way to get better.
我不敢相信我对自己做了什么，我把自己变成了什么样，而且没有办法变得更好。
Like, I'm stuck like this, and now you're going to kick me out of the only thing that I've ever loved.
就像，我就这样被困住了，现在你要把我从我唯一热爱的事情中踢出来。
What am I supposed to do now?
我现在该怎么办？
Rock bottom.
最低点。
DJ Shipley: And we started spinning up art therapy.
DJ Shipley：我们开始开展艺术治疗。
So I'd been there before.
所以我以前去过那里。
We'd done art therapy before, and I found it really beneficial, and actually, the Red Cross used to bring me in dogs.
我们以前做过艺术治疗，我发现它确实有益，实际上，红十字会曾经给我带狗。
They'd bring me in a Saint Bernard, drop him in my bedroom, and I'd do dog therapy for a little bit.
他们会给我带来一只圣伯纳犬，把他放在我的卧室里，然后我会做一点狗治疗。
And she's like, "Do you want to do art therapy?" And I was like, "I'd love to." And she's like, "Well, what do you want?" And I was like, "I'd really love a skateboard." And they snuck me out of that hospital, not supposed to, and they drove me down to this little skate shop right outside of Walter Reed.
她说：“你想做艺术治疗吗？”我当时想，“我很乐意。”她说：“那么，你想要什么？”我当时想，“我真的很喜欢滑板。”他们把我从那家医院偷偷带了出来，这是不应该的，他们开车送我到沃尔特·里德郊外的一家小滑板店。
DJ Shipley: And there's a skate shop there, and I walk in, you know, I've got my gown stuff on, like I'm all jacked up.
DJ Shipley：那里有一家滑板店，我走进去，你知道，我已经穿上了礼服，就像我很兴奋一样。
Hair's super long, beard's long.
头发超级长，胡子也很长。
I looked like a hobo.
我看起来像个流浪汉。
And I told the guy my story.
我把我的故事告诉了那个人。
I was like, "Hey, I grew up skateboarding.
我当时想，“嘿，我是玩滑板长大的。
Like, it was my passion, and I really would love to have a skateboard just to paint and do art therapy."
就像，这是我的热情，我真的很想拥有一块滑板来绘画和进行艺术治疗。”
Andrew Huberman: "Yeah, because I got a couple bolts in my femur that ripped through a couple tendons and, you know, I just got detoxed and didn't realize it."
安德鲁·休伯曼：“是的，因为我的股骨上有几个螺栓，撕裂了几根肌腱，你知道，我刚刚戒毒，但没有意识到这一点。”
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: "And and I'm here.
安德鲁·休伯曼：“我就在这里。
Can I ride a skateboard?" Love it.
我可以骑滑板吗？”爱它。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
So, he gives me a bunch of blank skateboards, and I go back and I'm papier-mache.
所以，他给了我一堆空白滑板，我回去后发现我已经是纸浆了。
I'm doing hands coming out of them.
我正在做从他们身上伸出的手。
Just a bunch of really dark, demonic stuff, but I felt so good.
虽然只是一堆非常黑暗、恶魔般的东西，但我感觉很好。
When I came out, my best friend Cole Fackler, the same guy I started Trybe Skates and GVRs with.
当我出柜时，我最好的朋友 Cole Fackler，就是我一起创办 Trybe Skates 和 GVR 的那个人。
We went to BUD/S together.
我们一起去了BUD/S。
He grew up in Virginia Beach with me, and so, we've been thick as thieves for 25 years now.
他和我一起在弗吉尼亚海滩长大，所以我们已经像小偷一样亲密了 25 年。
DJ Shipley: And he's like, "Well, open up an LLC." He opens up the backside, and he's like, "Let's just make skateboarding your art therapy." So we had an artist come on board.
DJ Shipley：他说，“好吧，开一家有限责任公司。”他打开背面，说道：“让我们把滑板变成你的艺术疗法吧。”所以我们请了一位艺术家加入。
We'd start drawing, you know, motivational things, you know, old school UDT stuff for firemen, stuff for police officers, memorial skateboards.
我们开始画，你知道，激励人心的东西，你知道的，消防员的老式 UDT 东西，警察的东西，纪念滑板。
And then I found fracture burning.
然后我发现骨折处有烧灼感。
So you essentially take a microwave transformer, pull it out, and you hook it up to jumper cables.
因此，您实际上需要一个微波变压器，将其拉出，然后将其连接到跨接电缆上。
And then run a lead out to an octopus outlet, like 110.
然后连接到章鱼出口，例如 110。
DJ Shipley: So when I clip it on top of the wood and I pour an electrolyte solution on it, Coca-Cola, baking soda with warm water is my favorite, and I hit it.
DJ Shipley：所以当我把它夹在木头上并在上面倒上电解质溶液时，可口可乐、小苏打和温水是我的最爱，我就这么做了。
It'll burn the wood grain, and they'll connect.
它会燃烧木纹，然后它们就会连接起来。
Scrub all that out, fill it with resin, just make these beautiful pieces, and that was my art therapy.
把所有的东西擦掉，用树脂填充，制作这些漂亮的作品，这就是我的艺术疗法。
I could sit there and burn skateboards all day, every day.
我可以每天坐在那儿烧滑板一整天。
It was amazing.
太棒了。
Like, it truly changed my life.
就像，它确实改变了我的生活。
And I don't know why.
我不知道为什么。
I didn't grow up around electricity.
我并不是在电的环境下长大的。
Obviously, I'm not very good at it.
显然，我不太擅长。
DJ Shipley: And it was something about having to sit there and sand the lacquer off that skateboard.
DJ Shipley：这就是必须坐在那里打磨滑板上的漆。
I mean, I'd buy brand new skateboards.
我的意思是，我会买全新的滑板。
I'd sand the entire graphic off of it, and then we'd burn them.
我会把整个图形打磨掉，然后我们把它们烧掉。
You have to sand them off.
你必须把它们打磨掉。
You'd have to rinse them, wait 24 hours, pour the resin, wait 24 hours, sand them off, pour it again, 24 hours.
你必须冲洗它们，等待 24 小时，倒入树脂，等待 24 小时，打磨掉它们，再次倒入，24 小时。
I mean, it's a seven-day process to make one board.
我的意思是，制作一块板需要 7 天的时间。
And we'd bring in guys who were transitioning.
我们会引进正在转型的人。
DJ Shipley: They'd do it too.
DJ Shipley：他们也会这样做。
It was their form of art therapy, and I felt like I was making a difference.
这是他们的艺术治疗形式，我觉得我正在做出改变。
And I'm scheduled to retire at the end of August 2019.
我计划于 2019 年 8 月底退休。
This is Father's Day.
这是父亲节。
So was that in the-
也是如此——
Andrew Huberman: It's, like, mid-June.
Andrew Huberman：大概是六月中旬。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Something like that?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：类似的事情？
DJ Shipley: Right before I'm scheduled to retire.
DJ Shipley：就在我计划退休之前。
Father's Day morning, around 9:00 AM.
父亲节早上，上午 9:00 左右。
I've been up since 5:00, burning skateboards.
我从 5:00 就起床了，烧着滑板。
I got a big bay window that looks out my backyard, and I've got these see-saws set up with these boards.
我有一扇大凸窗，可以看到后院，我还用这些木板搭建了跷跷板。
And I've got an EOD guy, an explosive ordnance guy from the Navy.
我有一个排爆人员，一个来自海军的爆炸物人员。
He's making paddles for retirement.
他正在为退休做桨。
So he comes over.
于是他就过来了。
They're covered in lacquer.
它们被漆覆盖。
And I'm like, "Yo, my man, I can't burn them while they have the lacquer." So he's got a sander out.
我想，“哟，我的朋友，当他们有漆的时候我不能烧掉它们。”所以他拿出了打磨机。
I'd been burning, so I unplugged my machine.
我一直在燃烧，所以我拔掉了机器的电源。
DJ Shipley: He plugs into my octopus outlet and is sanding down the lacquer.
DJ Shipley：他插入我的章鱼插座并正在打磨漆。
When he's done, I'll clip in.
等他说完了，我就插进去。
I'll burn them real quick.
我会很快把它们烧掉。
He'll finish them off.
他会解决掉他们的。
And my wife, I'll never forget.
还有我的妻子，我永远不会忘记。
I look up, and she bangs on the window, and she's like, "It's Father's Day.
我抬起头，她敲着窗户，说道：“今天是父亲节。
We're supposed to go eat brunch." And I was like, "Last burn.
我们该去吃早午餐了。”我当时想，“最后一次烧伤。
Last burn." He had unplugged the sander and plugged my machine into the octopus outlet, and now there's a charge going to it.
最后一次烧伤。”他拔掉了打磨机的插头，将我的机器插入了章鱼插座，现在可以充电了。
It's sitting on the ground.
它坐在地上。
I don't know it.
我不知道。
DJ Shipley: And the way I run the protocol is there's no electricity running to it, so I mean, you can put these things in your mouth.
DJ Shipley：我运行协议的方式是不通电，所以我的意思是，你可以把这些东西放进嘴里。
There's no electricity.
没有电了。
So I pick them up to adjust them because then I'm going to walk back, plug it in, and everybody's clear.
所以我拿起它们来调整它们，因为然后我要走回去，插上电源，然后每个人都清楚了。
Flick the outlet.
轻弹出口。
And when I readjusted them, the whole thing lit me up.
当我重新调整它们时，整个事情都照亮了我。
I had them in both hands.
我双手都拿着它们。
Andrew Huberman: You closed the circuit.
Andrew Huberman：你关闭了电路。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
So they were live on the leads just sitting on the ground.
所以他们只是坐在地上，就在现场。
I didn't know it.
我不知道。
So I went to readjust them.
所以我去重新调整它们。
I made contact with them, and it spun me around, and I faced them about this far away.
我和他们接触了，它让我旋转，我在这么远的地方面对着他们。
And I can remember the back of my head was trying to touch my tailbone, and I was trying to fight it.
我记得我的后脑勺试图触碰我的尾骨，而我试图与之抗争。
I could feel my teeth heating up.
我能感觉到我的牙齿在发热。
And I was squeezing this thing as hard as I could, and I heard a pop, pop.
我尽我所能地挤压这个东西，然后我听到了“砰”的一声，“砰”的一声。
And I step back.
我退后一步。
That was my collarbone shattering from the flex.
那是我的锁骨因弯曲而碎裂。
My scapula.
我的肩胛骨。
They both shattered.
他们都崩溃了。
But in the process, you take a hose and you wash off all the ash.
但在这个过程中，你用软管冲洗掉所有的灰烬。
So right behind me is ankle-deep standing water.
所以我身后是齐脚踝深的积水。
Andrew Huberman: Oh, Jesus.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，天啊。
DJ Shipley: And now I'm holding onto this thing.
DJ Shipley：现在我抓住了这件事。
I step back, and my wife, both my kids are turned around watching me from eight feet away.
我退后一步，我的妻子和我的两个孩子都转过身来，在八英尺外看着我。
I pop up, I levitate, and it launches me about 20 feet across my backyard, still holding onto the leads.
我弹出来，悬浮起来，它把我抛到了后院大约 20 英尺的地方，我仍然抓住了绳子。
He, thank God, has the wherewithal to unplug it.
感谢上帝，他有足够的资金来拔掉电源。
So when I wake up, my hair's standing straight up.
所以当我醒来时，我的头发都竖起来了。
My hands are smoking, and I exhale.
我的手在冒烟，我呼气。
I went...
我去了...
And all this smoke came out of my mouth.
所有这些烟雾都是从我嘴里冒出来的。
DJ Shipley: And I remember lying on the ground, and he's right in my face, and he goes, "Do you know where you're at?" And I said, "On the ground." And he went, "Can you move?" And I went, "My shoulder's dislocated, for sure." And he went, "Can you sit up?" And I went, "Help me." And he pulled me up, and as soon as he put pressure on there, I could feel my scapula just gravel.
DJ Shipley：我记得我躺在地上，他就在我面前，他说：“你知道你在哪里吗？”我说：“在地面上。”他说：“你能动一下吗？”我说：“我的肩膀肯定脱臼了。”他说：“你能坐起来吗？”我说：“帮帮我。”他把我拉起来，一旦他对那里施加压力，我就能感觉到我的肩胛骨变成了碎石。
I could feel this all hinging in there.
我能感觉到这一切都在那里。
My hands are smoking, like...
我的手在冒烟，就像...
So it blew out of my finger, blew out of this thumb.
所以它从我的手指中吹出来，从这个拇指中吹出来。
It fused my tendon to the nerve bundle, so it was stuck like this.
它把我的肌腱和神经束融合在一起了，所以就这样卡住了。
DJ Shipley: I couldn't move anything up here.
DJ Shipley：我无法移动这里的任何东西。
He stands me up and I tell him, "I'm going to drive myself to the hospital." My wife is freaking out.
他让我站起来，我告诉他：“我要自己开车去医院。”我的妻子吓坏了。
They're trying to unplug the machine, you know.
你知道，他们正试图拔掉机器的插头。
My kids are running out there, and I don't want them to see me like this.
我的孩子们都跑出去了，我不想让他们看到我这个样子。
I don't have a shirt on.
我没穿衬衫。
I don't even have shoes on.
我连鞋都没穿。
I just got a pair of shorts, and my shorts were on fire.
我刚买了一条短裤，我的短裤着火了。
DJ Shipley: So I had little ingrown hairs in my thighs.
DJ Shipley：所以我的大腿上有一些向内生长的毛发。
Electricity was shooting out of those and caught my shorts on fire.
电流从里面射出，烧着了我的短裤。
Anywhere I had them.
任何我有它们的地方。
So out the top of my head, one next to my nether region.
所以在我的头顶上，一个靠近我的下体区域。
I mean, just exit shots coming out of my body.
我的意思是，只是从我的身体里射出镜头。
And I don't know anything about electricity, but it's not good.
而且我对电一窍不通，但是不好。
And I take a turn, and I've probably have to walk maybe 35, 40 feet to my car.
当我转弯时，我可能需要步行 35、40 英尺才能到达我的车。
So he's in there with my wife, trying to get the keys, trying to get me in there.
所以他和我的妻子在那里，试图拿到钥匙，试图让我进去。
DJ Shipley: And I turn and I step to the door.
DJ Shipley：然后我转身向门口走去。
Have you seen 'Kill Bill?'
你看过《杀死比尔》吗？
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Remember the five-finger death touch?
DJ Shipley：还记得五指死亡之触吗？
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Five steps?
DJ Shipley：五步？
I took one step and everything went...
我迈出一步，一切就都过去了……
I took another one, and it started closing in.
我又拿了一张，它开始靠近。
Everything started going black.
一切开始变黑。
And I was like, "Oh, God." Third step, and I was like, "Oh, no." Fourth, fifth, and I'm looking through a toilet paper straw, and I'm like, "Oh, my God." I took one more step and everything went black.
我当时想，“哦，上帝。”第三步，我想，“哦，不。”第四，第五，我正在透过卫生纸吸管看，我就像，“哦，天哪。”我又向前走了一步，一切都变黑了。
And I was in total blindness standing out there.
我站在那儿完全失明了。
I'm opening my eyes as wide as I can, and I'm panicking.
我尽可能地睁大眼睛，我很恐慌。
I can hear my wife running through the house screaming.
我能听到我妻子尖叫着跑过房子。
DJ Shipley: I can hear him running around screaming, trying to get everything together, and I'm stuck on the side of my house like this, just shaking.
DJ Shipley：我能听到他尖叫着跑来跑去，试图让一切恢复正常，而我就这样被困在房子的一边，浑身发抖。
I can't see anything.
我什么也看不见。
And I started power breathing as deep and as hard as I could, and I saw a little speck of light.
我开始尽我所能地深呼吸，然后我看到了一点光点。
And I just kept doing it, just forcing it.
我只是继续这样做，只是强迫这样做。
Inhaled through my nose and mouth, just power as much as I can.
通过我的鼻子和嘴巴吸入，尽我所能。
And it started to open up, open up, open up.
它开始开放，开放，开放。
And probably 20 breaths into it, it was like I had superhuman vision.
大约二十次呼吸后，我就好像拥有了超人的视力。
It was like I was interconnected with everything on the planet.
就好像我与地球上的一切都有联系。
DJ Shipley: It was like I had a DMT trip.
DJ Shipley：这就像我进行了一次 DMT 之旅。
Everything was super vibrant.
一切都超级充满活力。
I was totally aware of my whole body.
我完全清楚自己的整个身体。
I knew everything that had just happened to me.
我知道刚刚发生在我身上的一切。
I could recall things from the past.
我能回忆起过去的事情。
And I knew everything was going to be fine.
我知道一切都会好起来的。
I'm good.
我很好。
I walk right over to the truck.
我径直走向卡车。
I open up the car.
我打开车。
I get inside it.
我进去了。
We hit every single speed bump and pothole from there until the ER.
从那里到急诊室，我们遇到了每一个减速带和坑洼。
Just jostling around me, and you can hear this-
只要在我身边推推搡搡，你就能听到——
Andrew Huberman: Just to remind you, your shoulder was a little messed up.
安德鲁·休伯曼：只是提醒你一下，你的肩膀有点乱。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Shoulders, excuse me.
安德鲁·休伯曼：肩膀，对不起。
DJ Shipley: Shoulders.
DJ 希普利：肩膀。
Andrew Huberman: Plural.
安德鲁·休伯曼：复数。
DJ Shipley: So I walk through the ER, and Princess Anne Sentara in Virginia Beach has an amazing staff.
DJ Shipley：我走过急诊室，弗吉尼亚海滩的安妮·森塔拉公主拥有一支出色的工作人员。
What they also have is a staff of really, really beautiful nurses.
他们还拥有一批非常非常漂亮的护士。
But now it's COVID, so now everybody has a mask on, and all you can see are their eyes.
但现在是新冠肺炎，所以现在每个人都戴着口罩，你只能看到他们的眼睛。
And they had the most beautiful eyes I've ever seen.
他们有我见过的最美丽的眼睛。
And I'm lying on my back, you know.
我仰面躺着，你知道。
I walk in and they can see it, like...
我走进去，他们可以看到它，就像......
One of the nurses made a comment.
一位护士发表了评论。
She's like, "Who brought in barbecue?" And it's my hands.
她就像，“谁带来了烧烤？”这是我的手。
DJ Shipley: Like, they're melted.
DJ Shipley：就像，它们融化了。
They're smoking.
他们在抽烟。
Andrew Huberman: Jesus.
安德鲁·休伯曼：天啊。
DJ Shipley: It's so bad.
DJ Shipley：太糟糕了。
It's making me nauseous to think about it.
这让我想起来就恶心。
They get me on that table and I'll never forget.
他们让我坐在那张桌子上，我永远不会忘记。
This nurse came over and spun her face in, and she goes, "I'm so surprised you still have a penis." I said, "What?" And she went, "Honey, when you get electrocuted, usually fingers come off, your nose comes off, everything comes off of you." And she's like, "As far as we can tell, you're intact.
这位护士走过来，把脸转了过来，说道：“我很惊讶你还有阴茎。”我说：“什么？”她说：“亲爱的，当你触电时，通常手指会脱落，你的鼻子会脱落，你的一切都会脱落。”她说：“据我们所知，你完好无损。
You haven't lost anything right now." She's like, "Move your fingers." I'm moving everything.
你现在并没有失去任何东西。”她就像是，“动动你的手指。”我正在移动所有东西。
Open my mouth.
张开我的嘴。
"Can you hear?" I can hear, and she's like, "Okay.
“你能听到吗？”我能听到，她说：“好吧。
DJ Shipley: Well, here we go.
DJ Shipley：好吧，我们开始吧。
"They transfer me.
“他们把我转移了。
I think I took an ambulance ride.
我想我坐了救护车。
I kind of blacked out for a little bit, and then I woke up in the burn unit in Norfolk, and I had this specialist come in.
我昏迷了一会儿，然后我在诺福克的烧伤科醒来，这位专家进来了。
My wife is now with me.
我的妻子现在和我在一起。
We're lying there, double slings, you know, trying to identify how bad everything is.
你知道，我们躺在那里，双吊带，试图确定一切有多糟糕。
They know we've had to do an emergency surgery on all this, and he goes, "DJ..." So this is after my two months with Vernon.
他们知道我们必须对这一切进行紧急手术，他说，“DJ……”这是我和弗农在一起两个月之后的事。
So, this is the best physical condition I've ever been in.
所以，这是我有史以来最好的身体状况。
DJ Shipley: I came from 180, now I'm 220, 6% body fat.
DJ Shipley：我从180岁开始，现在220岁，体脂为6%。
I'm in phenomenal shape.
我的身材非常好。
Like, I don't need to retire.
比如说，我不需要退休。
I could probably still suit it up again, and now I'm lying in this hospital bed.
我也许还能再穿上它，现在我躺在医院的病床上。
I'll have to show you the photos.
我得给你看照片。
And he walks in, and he's like, "Do you know what rhabdo is?" And I said, "Yeah." And he goes, "When you get electrocuted, your body releases an enzyme everybody has, but it multiplies rapidly, and your muscles liquify and they go toxic.
他走进来，问道：“你知道横纹肌是什么吗？”我说：“是的。”他说：“当你触电时，你的身体会释放一种每个人都有的酶，但它会迅速繁殖，你的肌肉会液化并有毒。
Then they go septic, and you die.
然后他们就会化脓，然后你就死了。
Your issue is you're a big dude.
你的问题是你是个大佬。
If these enzyme markers hit this level, I'd have to start cutting stuff out of you, man."
如果这些酶标记物达到这个水平，我就得开始从你身上切除东西了，伙计。”
Andrew Huberman: Taking muscle off?
安德鲁·休伯曼：减少肌肉？
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
He's like, "Pecs, lats, shoulders, delts, hamstrings, quads." Like, "So every hour, I'm coming back here, and we have to start doing these enzyme markers." So I'm lying in that bed.
他说，“胸肌、背阔肌、肩膀、三角肌、腿筋、股四头肌。”就像，“所以每小时，我都会回到这里，我们必须开始做这些酶标记。”所以我躺在那张床上。
Can't move, I can't run, I can't do anything, and I'm looking at my wife, and I'm just imagining Dr. Kevorkian coming in here and chopping me up into little pieces.
我不能动，我不能跑，我不能做任何事，我看着我的妻子，我只是想象着凯沃尔基安医生进来，把我切成小块。
I've never been in a low spot like that.
我从来没有陷入过这样的低谷。
Outside of being stuck behind that tire with Maddie, this was the first time since then when I was a true victim of circumstance.
除了和麦迪一起被困在轮胎后面之外，这是自那以后我第一次成为环境的真正受害者。
There's nothing I can do to prevent this.
我无能为力阻止这一切。
DJ Shipley: There's no magic pill I can take.
DJ Shipley：我没有什么灵丹妙药可以服用。
There's nowhere to run.
无处可逃。
There's nothing I can do.
我无能为力。
I'm either going to lie in this hospital bed, or I'm going to let that dude come in here and chop me up into pieces.
我要么躺在病床上，要么让那个家伙进来把我撕成碎片。
And I'm just consumed with anger, guilt, and envy.
我只是被愤怒、内疚和嫉妒所吞噬。
I just don't want to be here right now.
我只是现在不想待在这里。
DJ Shipley: And he came back in an hour, and he's like, "Levels are good.
DJ Shipley：一个小时后他回来了，他说，“水平很好。
Levels are good." Came back next hour, "Levels are good." Third hour, fourth hour, fifth hour, and he's like, "DJ, every person on the planet has this enzyme in their body.
水平很好。” 下一个小时回来，“水平很好。” 第三个小时，第四个小时，第五个小时，他说，“DJ，地球上的每个人体内都有这种酶。
Everyone.
每个人。
And not only is yours not climbing, not increasing, there's not a trace of it in your body now." He's like, "I've never seen anything like it." He's like, "Tomorrow morning, you're free to go."
你的不仅没有爬升，没有增加，现在你的身体里也没有任何痕迹。”他就像，“我从来没有见过这样的事情。”他就像，“明天早上，你可以自由走了。”
Andrew Huberman: Hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
DJ Shipley: "Okay." They planned the surgery.
DJ 希普利：“好的。”他们计划了手术。
They put in two plates, 20-something screws, did the whole thing, but didn't have to chop me up.
他们装上两块板子，拧上二十多个螺丝，完成了整个过程，但不必把我砍碎。
And from talking to all the other people, typically, people get electrocuted by one touch.
通常，在与其他人交谈时，人们一碰就会触电。
So this arm comes off, you know, rib cages blow open.
所以这只手臂脱落了，你知道，肋骨被炸开。
They were like, "We don't know if it's because you had leads in both hands and you just completed a circuit and were to ride it.
他们就像是，“我们不知道这是否是因为你双手都握有铅，并且你刚刚完成了一圈并要骑它。
We don't know what would have happened if you had held it for another second and a half.
我们不知道如果你再坚持一秒半会发生什么。
Was your heart starting and stopping just the perfect timing?
您的心脏开始和停止的时机是否恰到好处？
All the stars had to align for you to be here right now, and it's a medical mystery."
所有的星星都必须对齐才能让你现在在这里，这是一个医学之谜。”
DJ Shipley: So, I took it with that.
DJ Shipley：所以，我接受了。
Medical mystery.
医学之谜。
And now we're here.
现在我们到了。
But I had to walk back in.
但我不得不走回去。
So I get dropped off at my house, and this is where Vernon really comes into play.
所以我会被送到我家，这就是弗农真正发挥作用的地方。
I'm sitting in my house in double slings.
我穿着双吊带坐在家里。
I've got two kids.
我有两个孩子。
I've got a wife.
我有一个妻子。
I've got no income.
我没有收入。
I've got no job.
我没有工作。
I've got no one who can hire me, and I can't do anything physically.
我没有人可以雇用我，而且我也不能做任何体力活。
Nothing.
什么也没有。
DJ Shipley: I'm just lying in there in mental health straight down the tube, and I'm lying there at my kitchen table just feeling absolutely the worst I've ever felt.
DJ Shipley：我只是躺在那里，精神健康状况一直很糟糕，而且我躺在厨房的桌子旁，感觉绝对是我所经历过的最糟糕的感觉。
And I get a...
我得到一个...
Gimp up to the door, open up the door, and there's my trainer, Vernon.
走到门口，打开门，我的教练弗农就在那儿。
DJ Shipley: He's like, "Uh, how are we doing, big guy?" "Not good." He gives me this half-a**ed hug, and we walk into the kitchen.
DJ Shipley：他就像是，“呃，我们怎么样，大家伙？” “不好。”他给了我这个半**的拥抱，然后我们走进了厨房。
And we're sitting down, and he's like, "Talk me through it." I was like, "I can't do anything." He's like, "Okay.
我们坐下来，他说，“跟我谈谈。”我当时想，“我什么也做不了。”他就像是，“好吧。
Well, now that we've established that, what can you do?" I was like, "Nothing." He's like, "Well, can you make a fist?" You know, my hands are all bandaged up, and I was like, "Yeah," and he goes, "Can you move your wrist?" I'm like, "Yeah," and he went, "Can you walk?" I'm like, "I can walk." He's like, "Perfect."
好吧，既然我们已经确定了，你能做什么？”我说，“没什么。”他说，“好吧，你能握紧拳头吗？”你知道，我的手都缠着绷带，我说，“是的，”他说，“你能移动你的手腕吗？”我说，“是的，”他说，“你能走路吗？”我说，“我能走路。”他说，“完美。”
DJ Shipley: Pulls out his back pocket this little blue two-pound dumbbell, and he sticks it in my fingertips, and he's like, "Curl it," and I curled up, and I did a wrist curl, and he went, "Roll your hand over." "Okay." "So we can do grip, and we can walk.
DJ Shipley：从他的后袋里拿出这个两磅重的蓝色小哑铃，然后他把它放在我的指尖上，他说，“把它卷起来，”我蜷缩起来，我做了一个手腕卷曲，然后他说，“把你的手卷过来。” “好的。” “所以我们可以抓地力，也可以行走。
Here we go," and we did that every single day until I could pressurize my upper body enough to where a sneeze wouldn't cripple me, and then we were straight back in the gym.
开始吧。”我们每天都这样做，直到我能够给上半身施加足够的压力，打喷嚏不会让我瘫痪，然后我们就直接回到健身房。
So I'd walk in double slings.
所以我会穿着双吊带走路。
He's like, "The only thing we can do is belt squats, lunges, mobility.
他说，“我们唯一能做的就是腰带深蹲、弓步、灵活性。
That's all we're going to do."
这就是我们要做的全部。”
Andrew Huberman: You were belt squatting in double slings?
Andrew Huberman：你穿着双吊带进行深蹲吗？
DJ Shipley: Uh-huh.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: That's awesome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
DJ Shipley: But I'd walk in-
DJ Shipley：但我会走进-
Andrew Huberman: Not holding...
安德鲁·休伯曼：不持有……
So you're not holding onto the holds, none of that?
所以你没有坚持下去，不是吗？
DJ Shipley: I can't do anything.
DJ Shipley：我无能为力。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: So, I'd literally walk in.
DJ Shipley：所以，我真的会走进去。
I'd step through like a hula hoop.
我会像呼拉圈一样跨过去。
He would bring it up around me.
他会在我周围提起这件事。
I'd step on the platform.
我会踏上平台。
I'd squat down.
我就蹲下来。
He'd clip me in.
他会把我夹进去。
I'd stand up.
我会站起来。
He'd unrack it.
他会把它拆开。
I'd do my set, re-rack it.
我会做我的一套，重新架起来。
He'd take the belt off me, over and over, and he rebuilt me back every single day, five days a week, and we have never missed a session together since 2019.
他会一遍又一遍地把我的腰带解开，然后他每天都会让我重新恢复过来，每周五天，自 2019 年以来，我们从未错过过一起训练。
Never.
从来没有。
Saved my life, man.
救了我的命，伙计。
Andrew Huberman: That is awesome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
DJ Shipley: He's been more of a life coach than a strength coach.
DJ Shipley：他更像是一位生活教练，而不是一位力量教练。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Yeah, it's unbelievable.
DJ Shipley：是的，这令人难以置信。
And without him, if he hadn't walked in with that two-pound dumbbell, there's no telling where I'd be right now.
没有他，如果他没有带着那个两磅重的哑铃走进来，我不知道我现在会在哪里。
I told that story at the Tactical Strength Condition Conference.
我在战术实力条件会议上讲过这个故事。
Like, no one does that.
就像，没有人这样做。
No one is going to come over during that moment and push you.
在那一刻没有人会过来推你。
Everybody's going to walk over and put the "I'm so sorry for you.
每个人都会走过去并说：“我为你感到难过。
Oh, I can't believe this happened." Not him.
哦，我不敢相信这件事发生了。”不是他。
He's like, "Control things you can control.
他就像是，“控制你能控制的事情。
Can you make a fist?
你能握紧拳头吗？
Can you turn your wrist?
你能转动手腕吗？
Wrist curls and 20-minute walks, here we go," and that's what he did every single day.
手腕弯举和 20 分钟步行，开始吧。”这就是他每天所做的事情。
Bounced it all the way back.
一路弹了回来。
I mean, he's been there.
我的意思是，他去过那里。
DJ Shipley: Had to get a surgery on my hand, had to rebuild this whole hand, all the strength, and everything we've had to do.
DJ Shipley：我的手必须接受手术，必须重建整只手、所有的力量以及我们必须做的一切。
The stomach, the kidney, everything in between, he's been there for.
胃、肾，以及介于两者之间的一切，他都在那里。
Andrew Huberman: How many years ago was that?
安德鲁·休伯曼：那是多少年前的事了？
Roughly?
大概？
DJ Shipley: That was in 2019, so what is that?
DJ Shipley：那是在 2019 年，那是什么？
Andrew Huberman: It wasn't that long ago.
Andrew Huberman：那是不久前的事。
DJ Shipley: Six years.
DJ 希普利：六年。
Andrew Huberman: And now you're feeling great.
Andrew Huberman：现在你感觉很棒。
DJ Shipley: Oh yeah.
DJ 希普利：哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman: Super robust.
安德鲁·休伯曼：超级强大。
We'll talk about your training now and what people can do with that training.
我们现在将讨论您的培训以及人们可以通过该培训做什么。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I've gleaned a lot of really useful information from your current training program about setting standards and...
Andrew Huberman：我从你们当前的培训计划中收集到了很多关于制定标准和……的非常有用的信息。
DJ Shipley: Hm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: That is a wild ride.
Andrew Huberman：这是一次疯狂的旅程。
DJ Shipley: I always say like, "At least give me a cool story with it." Like, I got the skinny thing going on, not a cool story.
DJ Shipley：我总是说，“至少给我一个很酷的故事。”就像，我正在经历一些瘦弱的事情，这不是一个很酷的故事。
Electrocution, it's a cool story, you know, it's a feel-good story at the end, it wasn't going through it, but, you know, surround yourself with people better than you, and they'll definitely pull you out of the depths of despair.
触电，这是一个很酷的故事，你知道，这是一个结局让人感觉良好的故事，它没有经历过，但是，你知道，让自己周围都是比你更好的人，他们一定会把你从绝望的深渊中拉出来。
Andrew Huberman: I mean, it's an amazing story.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，这是一个了不起的故事。
At one point, when you made the return to the skateboarding thing, I thought, "Oh, you're going to start skateboarding again, you're feeling better." But it almost killed you-
有一次，当你重新开始玩滑板时，我想，“哦，你又要开始玩滑板了，你感觉好多了。”但它差点杀了你——
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: ...
安德鲁·休伯曼：...
and it didn't even have trucks and wheels on the thing yet.
它甚至还没有卡车和轮子。
DJ Shipley: Exactly.
DJ 希普利：没错。
Andrew Huberman: Oh, man.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，伙计。
I'm going to take a second to absorb all that.
我要花一点时间来消化所有这些。
I was going to ask you this later when we talk about Ibogaine and DMT, and some of the emerging therapeutics for PTSD, substance abuse, and other things that veterans are really fully embracing now and are making a clear march toward broader treatment of mental health issues.
稍后当我们谈论伊博加因和 DMT，以及一些治疗创伤后应激障碍、药物滥用和其他退伍军人现在真正完全接受的疗法并正在朝着更广泛的心理健康问题治疗迈出明确的步伐时，我打算问你这个问题。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But I'll ask you now, and I'll probably ask you again later.
Andrew Huberman：但我现在会问你，稍后我可能会再问你。
At any point in this, or headed into this whole set of things, setbacks and comebacks, did you have feelings of higher power?
在这一切的任何时刻，或者在面对这整套事情、挫折和东山再起时，你是否有一种更高的力量的感觉？
I mean, I don't want to put you on the spot, but were you raised religious?
我的意思是，我不想让你难堪，但你是在宗教背景下长大的吗？
Do you believe in God?
你相信上帝吗？
Any of that?
有这样的吗？
Andrew Huberman: I mean, you know, were it not for the fact that a very, very seriously scientifically educated friend of mine, Stanford Medical School, Harvard Medical, who was a lifetime atheist turned to me recently and he said, in his words, "I believe in miracles." And I said, "Miracle miracles or medical miracles?" And he said, "Miracle miracles." I said, "Really?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我的意思是，你知道，如果不是我的一位非常非常受过科学教育的朋友，斯坦福医学院，哈佛医学院，他是一位终身无神论者，最近转向我，用他的话说，“我相信奇迹。”我说：“奇迹还是医学奇迹？”他说：“奇迹奇迹。”我说：“真的吗？
You of all people?" And he said, "Yeah, I believe in it." And I said, "How?" And he said, "Because..." I don't want to reveal who this person is out of, you know, it's his right to talk about these things, but he said because of his math training.
你在所有人中？”他说，“是的，我相信它。”我说，“怎么会？”他说，“因为……”我不想透露这个人是谁，你知道，谈论这些事情是他的权利，但他说是因为他接受过数学训练。
Andrew Huberman: He said, you know, that some of the things he's seen and experienced have exceeded probability statistics that it's impossible, literally impossible for these things to happen.
安德鲁·休伯曼：他说，你知道，他所看到和经历的一些事情已经超出了概率统计，这些事情是不可能发生的，实际上是不可能发生的。
This isn't, you know, one in a trillion or one in 10 trillion.
你知道，这不是万亿分之一或十万亿分之一。
That some of these miracles go beyond what chance could provide, intersecting chances.
其中一些奇迹超出了机会所能提供的范围，交叉的机会。
Andrew Huberman: And so, you know, to hear a story like yours, people will come up with their own interpretations, and I'm a scientist, so I believe in science.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以，你知道，听到像你这样的故事，人们会提出自己的解释，而我是一名科学家，所以我相信科学。
I do happen to believe in God, but it's an individual choice for everybody.
我确实相信上帝，但这是每个人的个人选择。
But did you ever step back and wonder whether or not, in addition to Vernon, in addition to Matty, in addition to your teammates, in addition to your wife, whose father happened to be a team guy, I mean there's some things around Virginia Beach that could have predicted that perhaps, but did you ever pause and just go, "Yeah, maybe there are forces beyond everything I can see that are watching out for me"?
但你有没有退后一步想知道，除了弗农，除了马蒂，除了你的队友，除了你的妻子（她的父亲恰好是一名团队成员），我的意思是，弗吉尼亚海滩周围的一些东西也许可以预测到这一点，但你是否曾经停下来，然后说，“是的，也许有超越我所能看到的一切力量在监视着我”？
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Because you've had a number of second, third, fourth chances that it's starting to sound miraculous.
安德鲁·休伯曼：因为你已经有很多第二次、第三次、第四次机会，这听起来很神奇。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: They are.
DJ 希普利：是的。
We didn't grow up religious at all.
我们从小就没有宗教信仰。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I was always spiritual.
DJ Shipley：我一直都很有灵性。
Always.
总是。
And I mean, you experience things in life that can't be explained, and then when you see religious people, they're like, "Well, that's a miracle." And you're like, "Is it a miracle or am I just lucky?" And you start to look at it, and then you do 5-MeO-DMT and you realize like, yeah, it's got to be real.
我的意思是，你在生活中经历了无法解释的事情，然后当你看到宗教人士时，他们会说，“嗯，这是一个奇迹。”你会想，“这是奇迹还是我只是幸运？”然后你开始观察它，然后进行 5-MeO-DMT，然后你意识到，是的，它一定是真实的。
Like, there has to be a higher power, there has to be something that's pulling the strings, that's making this happen, like divine intervention.
就像，必须有更高的力量，必须有某种东西在幕后操纵，使这一切发生，比如神圣的干预。
There's no reason I should be here after that.
在那之后我就没有理由再来这里了。
DJ Shipley: After this, this, you add up all these things, like there's not a chance.
DJ Shipley：在这之后，你把所有这些东西加起来，就像没有机会一样。
Like, why?
比如，为什么？
Like, what am I supposed to be doing here?
比如，我应该在这里做什么？
How am I supposed to pay that forward?
我应该如何支付这笔费用？
Like, if somebody's pulling the strings to make sure I'm sitting in this seat, what am I doing to make sure I'm not wasting this opportunity?
就像，如果有人在幕后操纵以确保我坐在这个座位上，我该怎么做才能确保我不会浪费这个机会？
DJ Shipley: But I mean, it definitely makes you question.
DJ Shipley：但我的意思是，这肯定会让你产生疑问。
I mean, I definitely see why guys get, I don't want to say hung up on religion, but when they really buy in, they really turn the page and you're like, "How much of that is just for TV?" None of it with that guy.
我的意思是，我绝对明白为什么人们会，我不想说对宗教的迷恋，但当他们真正接受时，他们真的翻了一页，你会想，“其中有多少只是为了电视？”与那个家伙无关。
Right?
对吗？
Like, he felt it, he saw the change and I mean, I've seen too many miracles happen to believe that somebody's not behind it, something's not behind it.
就像，他感觉到了，他看到了变化，我的意思是，我见过太多的奇迹，相信这背后不是有人，不是某些东西。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Yeah, appreciate you sharing that.
是的，感谢您分享这一点。
I realize that, especially on a science health podcast, and we talk about other things, but I've talked about it more and more recently just that, I mean, I can't help but be a curious human being and wonder about these things.
我意识到这一点，特别是在科学健康播客上，我们谈论其他事情，但我最近越来越多地谈论它，我的意思是，我情不自禁地成为一个好奇的人并对这些事情感到好奇。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Whatever the case may be, you made it through.
Andrew Huberman：无论情况如何，你都挺过来了。
You retired.
你退休了。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I couldn't imagine.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我无法想象。
If your wife had heard that you were not going to retire, I mean, I like to think that nothing can break your guys' marriage, but man, that's a lot to bear.
如果你的妻子听说你不打算退休，我的意思是，我喜欢认为没有什么可以破坏你们的婚姻，但是伙计，这需要承受很多。
DJ Shipley: She was over it.
DJ Shipley：她已经克服了。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Andrew Huberman: With the kids seeing this.
Andrew Huberman：孩子们看到了这个。
DJ Shipley: She was over it.
DJ Shipley：她已经克服了。
DJ Shipley: Yeah, you know, and I had turned myself into something I wasn't proud of.
DJ Shipley：是的，你知道，我把自己变成了一个我并不引以为傲的东西。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: You know, I talk about dials, not switches.
DJ Shipley：你知道，我谈论的是旋钮，而不是开关。
Being able to power it down, power it up, and power it off.
能够关闭、开启和关闭电源。
I never did that.
我从来没有这样做过。
So, she got to see the transition from being at SEAL Team 10, and then going over to the tier one organization, and what that does with you.
因此，她见证了从海豹突击队 10 队到一级组织的转变，以及这对你有何影响。
The pressure to perform, the performance on demand, it changes you.
表现的压力，按需表现，它改变了你。
It has to.
必须如此。
You can't be the same person you were at 17, 19, 20, and then do that job.
你不可能还是 17、19、20 岁时的那个人，然后做那份工作。
You can't.
你不能。
You have to be able to change.
你必须能够改变。
DJ Shipley: And I think a lot of that, it was just wearing her down.
DJ Shipley：我认为很多这样的事情让她疲惫不堪。
I mean, I was gone so much, and a lot of that I try to explain to the guys now, like, "Don't do what I did." I would go on every single trip I could because I was living these multiple different lives.
我的意思是，我离开了太多次，现在我试图向大家解释很多事情，比如，“不要做我所做的事情。”我会尽可能去旅行，因为我过着多种不同的生活。
Like, I would go out to Arizona and I would skydive for months on end, right?
就像，我会去亚利桑那州，连续几个月跳伞，对吧？
I mean, God, I think I did almost 4,000 jumps in seven years.
我的意思是，天哪，我想我在 7 年内完成了近 4,000 次跳跃。
We went, we turned the page.
我们走了，我们翻过这一页。
DJ Shipley: And that's deploying, that's every other training trip, that's just sacrificing every weekend and making big pushes out there.
DJ Shipley：这就是部署，这就是每一次其他的训练旅行，这就是牺牲每个周末并在那里大力推动。
But when you go, no one knows who you are.
但当你走了之后，没有人知道你是谁。
They don't know what you do for a job, they just think you're a normal skydiver.
他们不知道你做什么工作，他们只是认为你是一名普通的跳伞运动员。
Like, we're doing these big wave formations and, you know, trying out for world records and doing all this stuff, and it's amazing.
就像，我们正在做这些大波浪的形成，你知道，尝试打破世界纪录并做所有这些事情，这真是太棒了。
But it just takes you so far away from that person I have to be in Virginia Beach, you become addicted to it.
但它只会让你远离弗吉尼亚海滩的那个人，你就会沉迷其中。
DJ Shipley: And then when I go here, I can be someone else completely.
DJ Shipley：然后当我来到这里时，我就可以完全成为另一个人。
No one knows who I am.
没有人知道我是谁。
I go on this trip, no one knows who I am.
我踏上这次旅行，没有人知道我是谁。
You don't talk about the job you do, you make up a line.
你不会谈论你所做的工作，你会编造一条台词。
I'll throw them out there and it'll make them all mad.
我会把他们扔出去，这会让他们都生气。
We tell everybody you're part of the Red Bull Air Force.
我们告诉大家您是红牛空军的一员。
Andrew Huberman: Red Bull Air Force?
安德鲁·休伯曼：红牛空军？
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Like, we skydive with all the boys, we know them all.
就像，我们和所有男孩一起跳伞，我们都认识他们。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And because you skydive enough, you can speak the lingo.
DJ Shipley：因为你跳伞次数足够多，所以你会说行话。
Like, they see you out in all the drop zones.
就像，他们在所有的降落区看到你。
You can fake that really, really well.
你可以假装得非常非常好。
Some guys will be a hot air balloon pilot, you'll be an MMA fighter, you'll be a hockey team where we had real long hair.
有些人会成为一名热气球飞行员，你会成为一名综合格斗选手，你会成为一支曲棍球队，我们都留着真正的长发。
You can adopt these different personas, and I think a lot of that is just trying to compartmentalize what you have back home, so I don't have to think about it.
你可以采用这些不同的角色，我认为其中很多只是试图划分你在家里拥有的东西，所以我不必考虑它。
DJ Shipley: Because literally, I mean, your buddies will tell you, you'll be sitting on the couch at 2:00 in the afternoon, and when that pager goes off, you're gone, right now.
DJ Shipley：因为从字面上看，我的意思是，你的朋友会告诉你，你将在下午 2:00 坐在沙发上，当寻呼机响起时，你就离开了，就在此时此刻。
Like, you got 30 minutes.
比如，你有 30 分钟的时间。
There's no goodbye, there's no, "Oh, let me swing by work real quick and give you one kiss." I'm going fishing.
没有告别，没有“哦，让我快点下班，给你一个吻。”我要去钓鱼。
Jump in a car and you're gone, and you got to be able to shut it off.
跳进一辆车，你就走了，你必须能够把它关掉。
It's very, very hard to do when you're just so obsessed with being the best husband, the best father.
当你如此痴迷于成为最好的丈夫、最好的父亲时，这是非常非常难的。
You can't shut that off.
你无法将其关闭。
DJ Shipley: The whole flight in just thinking about it, I'm like, "If this happens, this happens, how my daughter's gonna react." Like, "Oh, my God, they're going to come here.
DJ Shipley：在整个飞行过程中，我就想，“如果发生这种情况，发生这种情况，我女儿会如何反应。”就像，“哦，天哪，他们要来这里。
What point of the day is she going to get the news?
她今天什么时候会收到消息？
I'm not going to be there for their marriage, I'm not going to be there for this, this." You start to think about everything you're going to miss.
我不会参加他们的婚礼，我不会参加这个、这个。”你开始思考你会错过的一切。
Clouds your judgment, and it makes you hesitate at that moment.
模糊了你的判断力，让你在那一刻犹豫不决。
You can't.
你不能。
You can't hesitate, especially when no one else does, and you paint that in your mind.
你不能犹豫，尤其是当没有人这样做的时候，你把这一点记在心里。
Nobody else in here is thinking about being a full-time dad or a full-time husband right now.
现在这里没有其他人考虑成为一名全职爸爸或全职丈夫。
DJ Shipley: Nobody cares if I'm a 63% husband.
DJ Shipley：没有人关心我是否是 63% 的丈夫。
Nobody cares.
没人关心。
They need me to do this job at 100% because that's what this craft deserves.
他们需要我 100% 地完成这项工作，因为这是这门手艺应得的。
But it turns you into something you don't want to be long-term.
但它会让你变成你不想长期存在的人。
It's hard, man.
这很难，伙计。
But she was done.
但她已经完成了。
She was begging for me to hang it up, because all of our friends are dying.
她恳求我把它挂掉，因为我们所有的朋友都快要死了。
And then all the guys that transition out and they start doing contracting jobs, they're getting killed, they're getting shot, we're picking them up from the hospital.
然后所有转出的人开始做承包工作，他们被杀，他们被枪杀，我们从医院接他们。
What else you want me to do?
你还想让我做什么？
There's no retirement club.
没有退休俱乐部。
You want me to work at Home Depot?
你想让我在家得宝工作吗？
What do you want me to do?
你想让我做什么？
I only know how to do this one thing, and that was the plan.
我只知道如何做这一件事，那就是计划。
I was going to retire and start contracting with one of the government agencies and essentially do the same job I do now, just make a little bit better money, a little bit better schedule, and one thing led to another, and ended up not doing it.
我本来打算退休，开始与一个政府机构签订合同，基本上做我现在做的同样的工作，只是赚更多一点的钱，更好一点的时间表，一件事导致了另一件事，最终没有做。
Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, ROKA.
Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 ROKA。
ROKA makes eyeglasses and sunglasses that are of the absolute highest quality.
ROKA 生产绝对最高品质的眼镜和太阳镜。
I'm excited to share that ROKA and I recently teamed up to create a new pair of red lens glasses.
我很高兴与大家分享，我和 ROKA 最近联手打造了一副新的红色镜片眼镜。
These red lens glasses are meant to be worn in the evening after the sun goes down.
这些红色镜片的眼镜适合在晚上太阳落山后佩戴。
They filter out short wavelength light that comes from screens and from LED lights, which are the most common indoor lighting nowadays.
它们过滤掉来自屏幕和 LED 灯的短波长光，这是当今最常见的室内照明。
I want to emphasize, ROKA red lens glasses are not traditional blue blockers.
我想强调的是，ROKA 红镜片眼镜不是传统的防蓝光眼镜。
Andrew Huberman: They do filter out blue light, but they filter out a lot more than just blue light.
Andrew Huberman：它们确实过滤掉蓝光，但它们过滤的不仅仅是蓝光。
In fact, they filter out the full range of short wavelength light that suppresses the hormone melatonin.
事实上，它们会过滤掉所有抑制褪黑激素的短波长光。
By the way, you want melatonin high in the evening and at night.
顺便说一句，您需要在傍晚和夜间获得高浓度的褪黑激素。
Makes it easy to fall and stay asleep.
让人很容易入睡并保持睡眠状态。
And those short wavelengths trigger increases in cortisol.
这些短波长会引发皮质醇的增加。
Increases in cortisol are great in the early part of the day, but you do not want increases in cortisol in the evening and at night.
一天中的早些时候，皮质醇会大量增加，但您不希望傍晚和晚上皮质醇会增加。
Andrew Huberman: These ROKA red lens glasses ensure normal, healthy increases in melatonin and that your cortisol levels stay low, which is, again, what you want in the evening and at night.
Andrew Huberman：这些 ROKA 红色镜片眼镜可确保褪黑激素正常、健康地增加，并使您的皮质醇水平保持在较低水平，这也是您在晚上和晚上想要的。
In doing so, these ROKA red lens glasses really help you calm down and improve your transition to sleep.
通过这样做，这些 ROKA 红色镜片眼镜确实可以帮助您平静下来并改善您的睡眠过渡。
ROKA red lens glasses also look great.
ROKA 红色镜片眼镜也很好看。
They have a ton of different frames to select from, and you can wear them out to dinner or concerts and you can still see things.
他们有很多不同的镜框可供选择，你可以戴着它们去参加晚宴或音乐会，但你仍然可以看到东西。
Andrew Huberman: I don't recommend you wear them while driving, just for safety purposes, but if you're out to dinner, you're at a concert, you're at a friend's house, or you're just at home, pop those ROKA red lens glasses on and you'll really notice the difference in terms of your levels of calm and all the sleep stuff I mentioned earlier.
Andrew Huberman：我不建议您在开车时佩戴它们，只是为了安全起见，但如果您出去吃饭、听音乐会、在朋友家，或者只是在家，戴上 ROKA 红色镜片眼镜，您会真正注意到我之前提到的平静程度和睡眠质量方面的差异。
So, it really is possible to support your biology, be scientific about it, and remain social at the same time, if you like.
因此，如果您愿意，确实可以支持您的生物学，对其进行科学研究，同时保持社交性。
If you'd like to try ROKA, go to roka.com, that's R-O-K-A .com, and enter the code HUBERMAN to save 20% off your first order.
如果您想尝试 ROKA，请访问 roka.com（即 R-O-K-A .com），然后输入代码 HUBERMAN，即可在首次订单时享受 20% 的折扣。
Again, that's roka.com, and enter the code HUBERMAN at checkout.
同样，这是 roka.com，并在结帐时输入代码 HUBERMAN。
Andrew Huberman: I want to talk about ibogaine, DMT, mental health.
Andrew Huberman：我想谈谈伊博加因、DMT、心理健康。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: But first, I want to talk a little bit about posture.
Andrew Huberman：但首先，我想谈谈姿势。
DJ Shipley: Mm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Recently, I heard you talking about physical posture in the gym, literally form and how upright one is with their stance or squat, and how that translates to mental posture.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：最近，我听到你谈论健身房中的身体姿势，字面上的形式以及一个人的站姿或蹲姿如何直立，以及如何转化为心理姿势。
And it was the first time I've ever heard anyone talk about translating the physical into the mental in this way.
这是我第一次听到有人谈论以这种方式将身体转化为精神。
So, if you don't mind, how do you think about mental posture and physical posture, and how the two intersect?
那么，如果你不介意的话，你如何看待心理姿势和身体姿势，以及两者如何交叉？
DJ Shipley: I think in that analogy, the metaphor I used, physical posture, if you think if I stand feet shoulder width apart and I put a barbell on me, you slide on 45s, I'm strong, two more 45s, I'm strong.
DJ Shipley：我认为在这个类比中，我使用的比喻，身体姿势，如果你认为如果我双脚分开与肩同宽，然后在身上放一个杠铃，你滑到 45 秒，我很强壮，再做两个 45 秒，我很强壮。
You could load up 800, 900 pounds and I could sit there and hold it.
你可以装载 800、900 磅，我可以坐在那里拿着它。
Or if you put 315 pounds on it, I can drop butt the floor and I can squat it.
或者如果你在上面放 315 磅，我就可以用屁股摔在地板上，然后我就可以蹲下它。
If I hold it at 90 degrees and you add on a 45, it feels like a ton.
如果我把它保持在 90 度，再加上 45 度，感觉就像一吨。
You start adding on 10s, everything starts to quiver.
当你开始增加 10 秒时，一切都开始颤抖。
DJ Shipley: I use the same thing as my mental health.
DJ Shipley：我使用与我的心理健康相同的东西。
If I wake up in the morning, I've set my morning routine and I'm firing on all eight cylinders, you can stack on everything on top of me.
如果我早上醒来，我已经设定了早上的例行公事，并且我正在所有八个气缸上点火，那么您可以将所有东西都堆放在我身上。
Because I'm in an optimal state, I can take it just like I'm in a full posture.
因为我处于最佳状态，所以我可以像处于完整姿势一样接受它。
Just keep giving it to me, keep giving it to me.
只要继续给我，继续给我。
DJ Shipley: If I wake up, my morning routine's not there, I start reading some hateful stuff in the morning, don't have a good input with my wife first thing, I'm stuck behind the school bus, late for my first meeting, now you hand me a parking ticket, it feels like the world is collapsing on top of me and I can't do anything for it.
DJ Shipley：如果我醒来，我的早晨例行公事就不存在了，我早上开始读一些可恶的东西，第一件事没有与我的妻子进行良好的沟通，我被困在校车后面，我的第一次会议迟到了，现在你递给我一张停车罚单，感觉就像世界在我身上塌陷，我对此无能为力。
So, throughout the entire day, that's the whole purpose of the micro win kind of formula.
所以，一整天，这就是微赢公式的全部目的。
Stack up as many wins to put yourself in an optimal headspace because reality isn't going to know, it's going to smack you either way.
积累尽可能多的胜利，让自己处于最佳的状态，因为现实不会知道，无论如何它都会打击你。
DJ Shipley: And if I keep myself blocking everything that's externally toxic to me, when something does get put on me that I have to wear, I'm in a good posture to put it on.
DJ Shipley：如果我一直阻止所有对我来说有毒的外部事物，那么当我必须穿某些东西时，我就能以良好的姿势穿上它。
That jacket might weigh 55 pounds, I put it on and I'm still strong because I've been dropping off everything that I don't need to wear all day long.
那件夹克可能重 55 磅，我穿上它，我仍然很强壮，因为我已经脱掉了整天不需要穿的所有东西。
Yeah, I mean, but you'll see it, I mean, I know you see it, you analyze people all day long, when people are in a negative headspace, their posture changes.
是的，我的意思是，但你会看到它，我的意思是，我知道你会看到它，你整天分析人们，当人们处于消极的顶空时，他们的姿势会改变。
Their head drops, their shoulders roll forward, they're always looking at the ground, they're never up processing information.
他们低着头，肩膀前倾，总是看着地面，从不抬头处理信息。
It's because they're dragging whatever just happened all day long.
因为他们整天都在拖着刚刚发生的事情。
DJ Shipley: Now you add in one more thing, your mom's got cancer.
DJ Shipley：现在你再加一件事，你妈妈得了癌症。
It's like, "Oh." Your wife's going to leave you, "Oh." Your kids are so...
就像是“哦”。你的妻子要离开你了，“哦。”你的孩子真是...
"Oh." Everything just starts to weigh down on you, and it feels like something you'll never get past, insurmountable at some point.
“哦。”一切都开始压在你身上，感觉就像是你永远无法克服的事情，在某些时候是无法克服的。
And that's all because you will start to let it slowly but surely chip away at you.
这都是因为你会开始让它慢慢地但肯定地蚕食你。
DJ Shipley: It's like, control the things you can control, and the things you can't control, you either avoid them completely or you take them as that's the reality you have to live through right now.
DJ Shipley：就像，控制你能控制的事情，以及你无法控制的事情，你要么完全避免它们，要么接受它们，因为这就是你现在必须经历的现实。
I don't know why you have cancer, but you do, and you got to get through it.
我不知道你为什么得了癌症，但你确实得了，而且你必须克服它。
Okay.
好的。
Well, what positive things do I have?
那么，我有哪些积极的事情呢？
Great relationship with my wife, great relationship with my kids, great relationship with my friends, my social circle has shrunk, everyone around me is better than me and they want me to be better.
与妻子的关系很好，与孩子的关系很好，与朋友的关系也很好，我的社交圈缩小了，我周围的每个人都比我好，他们希望我变得更好。
Okay.
好的。
DJ Shipley: Well, I can take on a whole lot if I don't have a tight circle, no relationship with my wife, ostracized from my kids, everything.
DJ Shipley：好吧，如果我没有一个紧密的圈子，与我的妻子没有关系，被我的孩子们排斥等等，我可以承担很多事情。
Now you start to add on that external stress, it cripples me really, really fast, and I know I'm not the only one.
现在你开始增加外部压力，它让我真的非常快地瘫痪，而且我知道我不是唯一一个。
So, when I say it to everybody, like, whatever you have going on right now, whatever is absorbing all your bandwidth, it's us too.
所以，当我对每个人说，无论你们现在发生了什么，无论什么占用了你们所有的带宽，也是我们。
But you're choosing to wear that jacket all day.
但你选择整天穿着那件夹克。
You're putting on another one, and then another one, and then you add the external pressure of having to provide for a family and be, you know, that emotionally stable figure for the household.
你穿上另一件，然后又一件，然后你又增加了必须养家糊口的外部压力，你知道，成为家庭中情绪稳定的人物。
It's hard to do all day long, and a lot of people lose sight of it, and I think that's why so many people close their chapter early.
整天做起来很难，很多人都忽视了它，我想这就是为什么很多人提前结束他们的章节的原因。
They opt for suicide because they think, "There's no way I can right this ship.
他们选择自杀是因为他们认为：“我无法纠正这艘船。
Like, it's gone too far right now, and I don't want to have to sit here and rebuild it," and they close the chapter out.
就像，现在已经太过分了，我不想坐在这里重建它，”然后他们结束了这一章。
DJ Shipley: It's like, if we could have eliminated all those things and given yourself a breath of fresh air, would you have done the same thing?
DJ Shipley：就像，如果我们可以消除所有这些东西并给自己呼吸新鲜空气，你会做同样的事情吗？
If I would have grabbed you right before the moment, be like, "This isn't permanent.
如果我在这一刻之前抓住你，请说：“这不是永久性的。
You can fix this right now, you just have to change these aspects," they would.
你现在就可以解决这个问题，你只需要改变这些方面，”他们会说。
In the moment, though, and I've been there, you don't have the clarity.
但目前，我也经历过，你还不清楚。
You don't have the vision.
你没有远见。
And a guy told me a long time ago, he goes, "I think a lot of people want to hit the reset button on the Nintendo.
很久以前，一个人告诉我，“我想很多人都想按下任天堂的重置按钮。
Cha-ching, restart.
查清，重新开始。
Restart the game." You're not restarting the game.
重新开始游戏。”你不会重新开始游戏。
It's over forever.
一切都永远结束了。
And I hate seeing people do it.
我讨厌看到人们这样做。
I think now, you know, after I've come out of the medicine, I've done a bunch of therapy and cut out a lot of toxicity out of my life, I've gotten that breath of fresh air.
我想现在，你知道，在我戒掉药物之后，我做了一系列的治疗，并从我的生活中排除了很多毒性，我已经呼吸到了新鲜空气。
DJ Shipley: You know, I told Marcus and Amber Capone when I came out of the treatment, "I'm going to jump on the nearest building, I'm going to shout it from the rooftops, like, this will help." There is a way out of this funk, it's just one step further than you've currently gone.
DJ 希普利：你知道，当我结束治疗时，我告诉马库斯和安布尔·卡彭，“我要跳到最近的建筑物上，我要从屋顶上大喊，就像，这会有所帮助。”有一种方法可以摆脱这种恐惧，它只是比你目前所走的更进一步。
There's light at the end of that tunnel, just one step further, one step further, and just continuously going, it'll get better.
隧道尽头有光明，只要再进一步，再进一步，只要不断前行，就会变得更好。
DJ Shipley: But, yeah, for me, posture is a huge thing.
DJ Shipley：但是，是的，对我来说，姿势是一件大事。
I mean, in combatives it's a huge thing, in processing information it's a huge thing, in dealing with stress it's a huge thing.
我的意思是，在战斗中，这是一件大事，在处理信息中，这是一件大事，在处理压力方面，这是一件大事。
I can't let myself collapse, because once you start adding another pound to me, it hits me to the floor really fast.
我不能让自己崩溃，因为一旦你开始给我增加一磅，它就会很快地将我击倒在地板上。
So, control the things you can control, and a lot of it is just your posture and your perspective.
所以，控制你能控制的事情，很多只是你的姿势和视角。
Andrew Huberman: Great message.
安德鲁·休伯曼：很好的信息。
Would you agree that lying down in bed on one's phone, on social media is a very dangerous posture?
你是否同意躺在床上玩手机、玩社交媒体是一种非常危险的姿势？
Because I would argue that.
因为我会争论这一点。
DJ Shipley: Yes.
DJ 希普利：是的。
And I also tell guys, "If you are going to lay in the fetal position and tweet out how bad your mental health is, stop.
我还告诉大家，“如果你打算以胎儿的姿势躺着并在推特上发布你的心理健康状况有多糟糕，请停止。
Go to a Starbucks, go to Whole Foods, walk around and see normal human interaction and tell a stranger you're suffering from mental health." They don't do it.
去星巴克，去全食超市，四处走走，看看正常的人际交往，并告诉陌生人你患有心理健康问题。”他们不这样做。
You're just going to sit there in a fetal position feeling sorry for yourself and you think it'll get better tomorrow.
你会像胎儿一样坐在那里，为自己感到难过，并认为明天会好起来。
It won't.
不会的。
I've already lived that life, I've already painted the picture for you.
我已经经历过那样的生活，我已经为你描绘了这幅画。
I've played you the movie, you've watched it.
我给你放过这部电影，你也看过。
It's not going to work.
这是行不通的。
DJ Shipley: You're going to have to get out of that bed and you're going to have to do something every single day that brings you out of that dark depression.
DJ Shipley：你必须从床上爬起来，你必须每天做一些事情来让你摆脱那种黑暗的抑郁。
And for me, it's physical movement.
对我来说，这是身体运动。
If you have the ability to move, move.
如果你有能力移动，就移动。
Don't lay in that bed, don't just sit there and scroll.
不要躺在床上，不要只是坐在那里滚动。
You know, Vernon says it, your diet's important.
你知道，弗农说，你的饮食很重要。
Not what you eat, but what you consume.
不是你吃什么，而是你消费什么。
Visually, audio, like the music you listen to.
视觉上、听觉上，就像你听的音乐一样。
We all know, there's some music you listen to that just changes you ever so slightly.
我们都知道，有些音乐你听后只会对你产生轻微的改变。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Is that the person I need to be walking through this door?
DJ Shipley：这是我需要走进这扇门的人吗？
Do I need to blare Megadeth right now?
我现在需要大声喊出 Megadeth 吗？
No. I need to play Ludovico, that's what I need.
不，我需要扮演卢多维科，这就是我所需要的。
I need to walk into this room at 100% full capacity and just receive whatever energy is in the room right now.
我需要以 100% 满负荷走进这个房间，并接收房间里现在的任何能量。
It's hard to do if I'm in the depths of despair right now.
如果我现在正处于绝望的深渊，那是很难做到的。
So, yeah, I try to put myself in a position where I have optimal posture all day.
所以，是的，我试着让自己整天保持最佳姿势。
Andrew Huberman: You mentioned Marcus and Amber Capone.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你提到了马库斯和安布尔·卡彭。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Now's probably a good time for us to just reference-
Andrew Huberman：现在可能是我们参考一下的好时机——
DJ Shipley: Mm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: ...
安德鲁·休伯曼：...
who they are and the work that you guys have been doing.
他们是谁以及你们一直在做的工作。
And any time I sort of plug something or mention something, I want to be very clear, I don't have any formal affiliation to this upcoming Netflix show?
每当我插入某些内容或提及某些内容时，我都想非常明确地表明，我与这部即将推出的 Netflix 节目没有任何正式的隶属关系？
Movie?
电影？
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Film.
DJ 希普利：电影。
Andrew Huberman: It's a film, excuse me, to this upcoming Netflix film.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对不起，这是一部即将上映的 Netflix 电影的电影。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: But it's going to be an incredible film.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但这将是一部令人难以置信的电影。
I know this because I've seen bits of it.
我知道这一点，因为我已经看到了一些。
Maybe just mention who Marcus and Amber Capone are, and what they've been doing, and the film.
也许只提一下马库斯和安布尔·卡彭是谁，他们一直在做什么，以及这部电影。
I do think this is something everyone should see.
我确实认为这是每个人都应该看到的。
I'm definitely going to see it.
我一定会去看的。
And I'll just say that I think their organization, Veteran Solutions, is one I've been paying attention to and trying to support in ways I can over the last, gosh, it's been three, four years.
我只想说，我认为他们的组织，Veteran Solutions，是我在过去一直关注并试图以我力所能及的方式支持的组织，天哪，已经三四年了。
And so maybe tell us about Marcus and Amber and the film.
那么也许可以给我们介绍一下马库斯和安布尔以及这部电影。
DJ Shipley: So, Marcus joined the SEAL Teams right pre-9/11.
DJ Shipley：所以，Marcus 在 9/11 之前就加入了海豹突击队。
Married Amber, had a baby right when the SEAL Teams got stationed on the East Coast with me at SEAL Team 10.
当我和海豹突击队第 10 分队一起驻扎在东海岸时，与安布尔结婚并生了孩子。
And you could watch him change throughout the years, like everybody else, but because he's such a big polarizing figure, he's hard to miss.
你可以看到他这些年来的变化，就像其他人一样，但因为他是一个两极分化的人物，所以很难忽视他。
I mean, he's probably 6'5", 240.
我的意思是，他可能身高 6 英尺 5 英寸，240 英寸。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, he's a big dude.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，他是个大人物。
DJ Shipley: He's a big guy and he was extremely intimidating.
DJ Shipley：他是个大块头，而且非常令人生畏。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: But he always had a light in his eyes.
DJ Shipley：但他的眼睛里总是闪烁着光芒。
He always seemed like a dude you wanted to be around.
他看起来总是像一个你想和他在一起的家伙。
And after the conflicts and the multiple deployments, I mean, you'd see him out in town and his eyes got jet black.
我的意思是，在冲突和多次部署之后，你会在城里看到他，他的眼睛变得漆黑。
And he would be a guy that if you were walking on the street and you saw him come out, just the way he looked at you, you would cross the street.
他会是这样一个人，如果你走在街上，看到他出来，就像他看你的样子，你就会过马路。
And he became one of those guys, I give you the analogy walking to the SPCA and you see that pit bull, ears been shaved off, there's scars all over his face.
他成为了那些人中的一员，我给你打个比方，步行到防止虐待动物协会，你会看到那只斗牛犬，耳朵被剃掉了，脸上满是伤疤。
You're not going to put your hand in that cage.
你不会把你的手放进那个笼子里。
Marcus Capone was like that.
马库斯·卡彭就是这样的人。
DJ Shipley: He leaves the SEAL Teams, has a very rocky transition, gets a job in finance, moves around, and you hear it through the rumor mill about how bad he's doing.
DJ 希普利：他离开了海豹突击队，经历了一个非常艰难的过渡，找到了一份金融工作，四处走动，你可以通过谣言听到他做得有多糟糕。
Drinking, just not the person you wanted him to be, and definitely not the transition you wanted for him.
喝酒，只是不是你想要他成为的人，也绝对不是你想要他的转变。
And then it got so bad, you know, suicide was definitely on the table, circling the drain, drinking way too much, just toxic in every way you can imagine.
然后事情变得如此糟糕，你知道，自杀肯定是摆在桌面上的，绕着下水道转，喝得太多，在你能想象的各种方面都是有毒的。
And Amber, being the angel that she is, started to research different solutions.
安布尔作为天使，开始研究不同的解决方案。
He did MeRT, meditation, yoga, talk therapy, drugs, did everything you could, and she found ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT, and convinced him to go down there.
他做了MeRT、冥想、瑜伽、谈话疗法、药物，做了你能做的一切，她找到了伊博加因和5-MeO-DMT，并说服他去那里。
DJ Shipley: And it was one of those things, much like mine, "You're going to go do this treatment, and this is our last attempt, and if this doesn't work, I'm leaving you." And for a team wife to throw in the towel after the career is over, that lets you know how bad it is, because they have combated that entire thing.
DJ Shipley：这是其中一件事，就像我的一样，“你要去接受这种治疗，这是我们最后的尝试，如果这不起作用，我就会离开你。”对于一个球队妻子来说，在职业生涯结束后认输，这让你知道事情有多糟糕，因为他们已经与这一切作斗争了。
I mean, they were in the heart of NSW, in the heart of the GWOT, and buried more friends than you'd ever care to count.
我的意思是，他们在新南威尔士州的中心，在 GWOT 的中心，埋葬的朋友多得你无法数算。
And after all of that, she's finally going to throw in the towel.
经历了这一切之后，她终于要认输了。
That's how bad he's gotten.
他的处境就是这么糟糕。
DJ Shipley: And, you know, you hear that he came back and you wouldn't even recognize him.
DJ Shipley：而且，你知道，你听说他回来了，但你甚至认不出他了。
Like, you won't believe what Marcus Capone looks like.
就像，你不会相信马库斯·卡彭的样子。
And I hadn't seen him, but you got to understand, coming from the East Coast, and I'm an idealist, like, I'm a true believer, and when you hear that Marcus left the East Coast and went to the West Coast and now he's doing yoga, meditation, and smoking toad venom, you're like, "West Coast, typical.
我没有见过他，但你必须明白，我来自东海岸，我是一个理想主义者，就像，我是一个真正的信徒，当你听说马库斯离开东海岸去了西海岸，现在他正在做瑜伽、冥想和吸蟾蜍毒液时，你会说，“西海岸，典型的。
I knew you'd turn him." And then you see him and you're like, "That's the best version of Marcus I've ever seen."
我知道你会改变他。”然后你看到他，你会想，“这是我见过的最好的马库斯版本。”
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And he's not a pacifist.
DJ Shipley：他不是和平主义者。
He can still roll that dial all the way over, but he has full control over it.
他仍然可以将那个转盘完全滚动，但他可以完全控制它。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: You know, 20 years old, flipped the Navy SEAL switch and just lived that life to the fullest.
DJ Shipley：你知道，20 岁的时候，我就加入了海豹突击队，并且过着充实的生活。
Never had a balance point.
从来没有一个平衡点。
Never needed one, never tried to adopt one.
从来不需要一个，也从未尝试过收养一个。
So, during my whole transition...
所以，在我的整个转变过程中...
I'll say when he got out, they sat dormant on that medication for a while, because it was so out there and you didn't want to shock the culture, you didn't want to shock the community, and it's taboo.
我会说，当他出狱后，他们在这种药物上休眠了一段时间，因为它是如此存在，你不想震惊文化，你不想震惊社区，这是禁忌。
I mean, doing psychedelics is not a thing that Navy SEALs do.
我的意思是，迷幻药不是海豹突击队做的事情。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, and ibogaine is a 22-hour psychedelic.
Andrew Huberman：是的，伊博加因是一种 22 小时迷幻药。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: It's very esoteric.
Andrew Huberman：这是非常深奥的。
Most people have heard of psilocybin or even LSD or MDMA.
大多数人都听说过裸盖菇素，甚至 LSD 或 MDMA。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: And DMT, I mean, this is as far out there as you possibly can go.
Andrew Huberman：DMT，我的意思是，这是你能到达的最远的地方。
I'm sure someone sitting there is like, "No, there's some chemical made in..." You know?
我确信坐在那里的人会说，“不，有一些化学物质是......”你知道吗？
But it's extreme.
但这是极端的。
It's extreme.
这是极端的。
DJ Shipley: It is extreme.
DJ Shipley：这很极端。
And just like the SEAL Teams, you do everything to the extreme, and that's where you go.
就像海豹突击队一样，你把每件事都做到极致，这就是你的目标。
Andrew Huberman: There seems to be a theme there, yeah.
Andrew Huberman：是的，那里似乎有一个主题。
DJ Shipley: And, you know, I was going through a similar thing.
DJ Shipley：而且，你知道，我也经历过类似的事情。
But when they came out, one of his very good friends, Chad Wilkinson, committed suicide.
但当他们出来时，他的一位好朋友查德·威尔金森自杀了。
And I think enough was enough.
我认为已经足够了。
And that was one of his best friends, and it crippled him.
那是他最好的朋友之一，这让他瘫痪了。
And when you see him get the news, you can watch at this...
当你看到他得到消息时，你可以看这个......
Oh God, I'm gonna try not to cry.
天哪，我会努力不哭。
You can watch that loss affect him in a way that nobody else will understand.
你可以看到这次损失对他的影响是其他人无法理解的。
And he knew he was holding onto this secret.
他知道他一直保守着这个秘密。
Like, "This saved my life, and if I would have given that to him, he'd still be here and I know it.
就像，“这救了我的命，如果我把它给了他，他仍然会在这里，我知道这一点。
What am I gonna do?
我要做什么？
I got to start a 501(c)(3) and I got to start saving as many people as humanly possible.
我必须启动 501(c)(3)，并开始尽可能多地拯救人们。
And selfishly, I'm gonna save as many SEALs as humanly possible."
自私地说，我会尽我所能拯救尽可能多的海豹突击队员。”
DJ Shipley: And once he saved one, saved two, three, four, five, Army Rangers, Green Berets, fighter pilots, they all just start pouring in here.
DJ Shipley：一旦他救了一名、两名、三名、四名、五名陆军游骑兵、绿色贝雷帽、战斗机飞行员，他们就开始涌入这里。
It's the same trauma.
这是同样的创伤。
It doesn't matter how you got it.
你如何得到它并不重要。
You're at the brink of it, and you're going to close this chapter out, and this medicine is going to give you that breath, it's going to give you that relief to not do it.
你正处于它的边缘，你将结束这一章，这种药会让你喘口气，它会给你一种解脱，让你不再那么做。
And they made this little infomercial that was on social media talking about psychedelics.
他们在社交媒体上制作了这个小型电视广告，谈论迷幻药。
And I had heard about it and I kind of whitewashed it, and my wife was at the same point.
我听说过这件事，我有点粉饰它，我的妻子也有同样的想法。
She was getting ready to leave me and take the two kids, and, "I can't do this anymore." And we laid in bed one night and she watched it, and she was crying.
她正准备离开我并带着两个孩子，然后，“我不能再这样做了。”一天晚上我们躺在床上，她看着这部电影，哭了。
And she leaned over and she made me watch it, and I started bawling because I could see the difference.
她俯身让我看，我开始大哭，因为我能看出其中的差别。
DJ Shipley: The last time I saw Marcus and this Marcus is very, very different.
DJ Shipley：我上次见到马库斯时和这次的马库斯非常非常不同。
And she looked over and she goes, "If you love me, you'll go." I went, "I'll go do psychedelics with my friends in Mexico, sure." I never thought it would do anything because I had messed up so much until that point.
她看了看，说道：“如果你爱我，你就会走。”我说：“当然，我会和我在墨西哥的朋友一起去服用迷幻药。”我从来没想过它会起到任何作用，因为在那之前我已经搞砸了很多事情。
All the pharmaceuticals, all the mistakes I had made, the infidelity, everything had led me up to that point, and I had that secret inside me, and I did not have the strength to tell her.
所有的药物，我犯下的所有错误，不忠，一切都让我走到了这一步，我心里有这个秘密，但我没有力量告诉她。
I didn't want to break her heart about all the things I had messed up.
我不想因为我搞砸的所有事情而让她心碎。
And for me, if you think me going down to Mexico is going to save our marriage, I will 100% do it, but I never thought for a chance it would.
对我来说，如果你认为我去墨西哥会挽救我们的婚姻，我百分百会这么做，但我从来没有想过会这么做。
Never.
从来没有。
DJ Shipley: And I went down there with a bunch of guys that were legends inside of the community and, you know, Ambio, Trevor, Jose, Jonathan, Brianna, everybody at Ambio Life Sciences, they run the best facility I've ever been a part of in any facility.
DJ Shipley：我和一群社区内的传奇人物一起去那里，你知道，Ambio、Trevor、Jose、Jonathan、Brianna，以及 Ambio Life Sciences 的每个人，他们运营着我曾参与过的最好的设施。
DJ Shipley: That medicine is so strong, and I think that's why guys get such relief.
DJ Shipley：这种药物非常有效，我认为这就是为什么人们会得到如此缓解。
It's the only thing stronger than your ego because you've turned yourself into this vessel you think represents the essence of what being a Navy SEAL is.
这是唯一比你的自我更强大的东西，因为你已经把自己变成了这艘船，你认为它代表了海豹突击队的本质。
You're hard, you're determined, you'll never lose.
你很努力，你有决心，你永远不会失败。
Like, you'll, you'll sacrifice everything right now if the group asks you to do it.
就像，如果团队要求你这样做，你现在就会牺牲一切。
But you won't do it for yourself.
但你不会为自己做这件事。
You'll never put your individual needs above the needs of the group, and this is one point where you have to.
你永远不会将个人需求置于团队需求之上，这是你必须这样做的一点。
You have to go for the good of the group, I have to suck up my ego, got to suck up my pride, and I have to try to kill it right now.
你必须为了团队的利益而努力，我必须放下我的自我，必须放下我的骄傲，我现在必须尝试消灭它。
And we went down there and took that medicine.
我们就去那里服用了那种药。
DJ Shipley: I had a combatives instructor, his name's Tom Kier from Sayoc Tactical Group.
DJ Shipley：我有一位格斗教练，他的名字叫 Tom Kier，来自 Sayoc 战术小组。
If you've ever watched the movie "The Hunted" with Benicio del Toro, the knife fighting, that's what they do and they are the best in the world.
如果你看过本尼西奥·德尔·托罗主演的电影《猎杀》中的刀战，那他们就是这么做的，他们是世界上最好的。
And Tom Kier is a knowledge transfer specialist.
汤姆·基尔（Tom Kier）是一位知识转移专家。
He's changed my life and mindset more than anybody else on the planet.
他对我的生活和心态的改变比地球上任何人都大。
And he told me a quote the other day and it references this kind of, and we were talking about experience, and he goes, "If you understand, no explanation is needed.
前几天他告诉我一句话，它提到了这种情况，我们正在谈论经验，他说：“如果你理解，就不需要解释。
If you don't understand, no explanation is possible." And that came from Dave Joyce, another Sayoc disciple, and it's the truest thing I've ever heard.
如果你不明白，就不可能有任何解释。”这句话出自萨约克的另一位弟子戴夫·乔伊斯之口，这是我听过的最真实的话。
DJ Shipley: Unless you've done Ibogaine, unless you've done psychedelics in a therapeutic setting, you'll have no idea how powerful it is.
DJ Shipley：除非你使用过伊博加因，除非你在治疗环境中使用过迷幻药，否则你不会知道它有多强大。
And when I woke up that next day, everything I had ever done, negative, positive erased, everything negative, every conversation, every bad deed, every time I've hurt anybody, every time I've made my wife cry, every time I've not been present was in the forefront of my mind.
当我第二天醒来时，我曾经做过的所有事情，消极的、积极的都被抹去了，所有消极的事情，每一次谈话，每一次坏事，每次我伤害过任何人，每次我让我的妻子哭泣，每次我不在场的时候都在我的脑海中浮现。
And I felt absolutely terrible.
我感觉非常糟糕。
I felt like a monster for everything I had done, every time I had not been present, every time I had sacrificed them for this thing.
每次我不在场，每次我为这件事牺牲他们，我都觉得自己像个怪物。
I didn't want to go home.
我不想回家。
DJ Shipley: And at the same token, it was the only time in my life I'd ever been homesick.
DJ Shipley：同样，这是我一生中唯一一次想家。
I wanted to teleport and go home and wrap my arms around those three.
我想传送回家，用双臂拥抱那三个人。
But I was so embarrassed at everything that I had done, there's no way I can do it.
但我对自己所做的一切感到非常尴尬，我没有办法做到。
I can't go home and break their heart.
我不能回家伤他们的心。
And you have the gray day after you do Ibogaine.
服用伊博加因后，你会迎来灰暗的一天。
I mean, it feels like you got hit by a freight train just in your feels, dudes are throwing up all day, depending on how your experience is.
我的意思是，感觉就像你被货运列车撞到一样，伙计们整天都在呕吐，这取决于你的经历如何。
DJ Shipley: The next day you do 5-MeO-DMT and that's the ego death.
DJ Shipley：第二天你做 5-MeO-DMT，这就是自我死亡。
You know, comes the Sonoran Desert toad, they milk out the poison glands and that's essentially what you're smoking, and it's pretty intimidating, looks like you're smoking crack rock.
你知道，索诺兰沙漠蟾蜍来了，它们会挤出毒腺，这基本上就是你吸的东西，它非常吓人，看起来就像你在吸裂纹岩石。
And that experience, when you smoke that, it must be like either what finding religion or what dying's like.
当你抽烟时，那种体验一定就像寻找宗教或死亡的感觉。
Andrew Huberman: Well, you almost died with the electrocution.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好吧，你差点就触电身亡了。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And we had a very accomplished neuroscientist on the podcast, Christof Koch, he's been studying consciousness for a long time and he talked about his experiences on 5-MeO-DMT, total dissolution of self, total dissolution of space and time, but he described that his mind was still there, but nothing else was there.
Andrew Huberman：我们的播客中有一位非常有成就的神经科学家，Christof Koch，他研究意识很长时间了，他谈到了他在 5-MeO-DMT 上的经历，自我完全消解，空间和时间完全消解，但他描述说他的思想仍然在那里，但没有其他东西在那里。
Andrew Huberman: And again, if someone hasn't done it...
Andrew Huberman：再说一遍，如果有人还没有这样做......
I've never done it, but if someone hasn't done it, I'm guessing that no description will suffice.
我从来没有这样做过，但如果有人没有这样做过，我猜任何描述都不够。
I've heard it, like, from another team guy being described as being strapped to the shock wave of an atom bomb.
我从另一个团队成员那里听说过，他被描述为被绑在原子弹的冲击波上。
I'm like, you know, I've heard a bunch of different descriptions.
我想，你知道，我听过很多不同的描述。
DJ Shipley: Hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: When you come out of that experience, however, how did that reframe the electrocution, the loss of...
安德鲁·休伯曼：然而，当你从那次经历中走出来时，你会如何重新定义触电、失去……
I mean, we could spend three days talking about every single guy that you know that's been killed and still probably only touch on a small number of them, sadly.
我的意思是，我们可以花三天的时间谈论你知道的每一个被杀的人，但遗憾的是，仍然可能只触及其中的一小部分人。
You know?
你知道吗？
So, how does all that get reframed coming out of an experience like that?
那么，如何从这样的经历中重新构建所有这些呢？
DJ Shipley: The biggest concern doing Ibogaine was that you were going to be stuck inside of your own thoughts.
DJ Shipley：做伊博加因最大的担忧是你会陷入自己的想法之中。
Everybody you had lost, you were just going to relive it, you were going to be in the back of that helicopter, you were just going to have to relive that for 24 straight hours.
你失去的每个人，你都将重温它，你将坐在直升机的后部，你将不得不连续 24 小时重温它。
And I will tell you that not a single person that I have ever done Ibogaine with has ever had any military experience.
我会告诉你，和我一起做伊博加因的人中没有一个人有过任何军事经验。
It's always been your childhood, and then a reflection of what you've done to your wife and kids.
这一直是你的童年，然后反映你对妻子和孩子所做的事情。
It gaps it.
它有间隙。
So I've done Ibogaine four times.
所以我已经做了四次伊博加因。
I have never had a singular military experience, ever.
我从来没有过一次独特的军事经历。
Nothing.
什么也没有。
Andrew Huberman: Childhood?
安德鲁·休伯曼：童年？
DJ Shipley: Childhood.
DJ 希普利：童年。
Andrew Huberman: Big time.
安德鲁·休伯曼： 很棒。
DJ Shipley: Childhood, and then in the actual medicine, it would allow me to relive past events with my father, with my mother, hard conversations, you know, blowups, arguments, screaming, smashing.
DJ Shipley：童年，然后在真正的医学领域，它会让我重温过去与父亲、母亲的经历，艰难的对话，你知道，爆发、争吵、尖叫、粉碎。
Andrew Huberman: Things you had forgotten?
Andrew Huberman：你忘记了什么？
DJ Shipley: Things I had forgotten.
DJ Shipley：我已经忘记的事情了。
Things that were never on my conscious mind.
那些从未在我的意识中出现过的事情。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: And now I'm reliving them.
DJ Shipley：现在我正在重温它们。
And then it would shift, and it would be me doing that exact same thing to my wife, to my kids.
然后事情就会发生变化，我会对我的妻子、我的孩子做同样的事情。
And then it'll put you in their position.
然后它会将你置于他们的位置。
So, when I'm screaming, I'm projecting just this hate and this venom is shooting out of me, I can be that seven-year-old little girl, and I can feel how frightened she is by what she's watching her father turn into.
所以，当我尖叫时，我投射出这种仇恨，这种毒液从我体内射出，我可以成为那个七岁的小女孩，我可以感觉到她看到她父亲变成什么样子而感到多么害怕。
Andrew Huberman: So real empathy.
安德鲁·休伯曼：非常真实的同理心。
DJ Shipley: That is what it is.
DJ Shipley：就是这样。
You become so empathetic to everyone and everything, and it's the forefront of your mind, like, "I don't want to go home because now I know what I've done.
你变得对每个人、每件事都充满同理心，这是你脑海中最重要的想法，就像，“我不想回家，因为现在我知道我做了什么。
I can't mask it anymore.
我无法再掩饰它了。
There's no more compartmentalization.
不再有区隔。
I've done all those things, I've said that terrible stuff, and I'm never going to be able to re-earn my seat at the table." And it's one of those weird predicaments where I want to go home but I don't because I don't want to face that I actually did and said that.
我做过所有这些事情，我说过那些可怕的话，我永远无法重新赢得我在谈判桌上的席位。”这是一种奇怪的困境，我想回家，但我没有回家，因为我不想面对我实际上做了和说过的事情。
DJ Shipley: It's like, out of every good thing I've ever done, it all got erased on that moment.
DJ Shipley：就好像，我做过的每一件好事，在那一刻都被抹去了。
The only thing we're gonna focus on is all the bad stuff you've ever done and said.
我们唯一要关注的是你曾经做过和说过的所有坏事。
So, when we came into 5-MeO, I did six rounds of 5-MeO my first time down there.
所以，当我们进入 5-MeO 时，我第一次在那里进行了六轮 5-MeO。
Every single one is the most painful thing you've ever been a part of.
每一件事情都是你经历过的最痛苦的事情。
DJ Shipley: And Trevor says it beautifully down at Ambio, he said, "Whatever's going to happen, let it happen.
DJ Shipley：Trevor 在 Ambio 的演讲中说得很漂亮，他说：“无论发生什么，就让它发生吧。
If you think you're gonna explode, explode.
如果你认为你会爆炸，那就爆炸吧。
If you think you're gonna die, die.
如果你认为你会死，那就去死吧。
If you think you're gonna drown or blast off in the stratosphere, do it.
如果你认为自己会淹死或在平流层中升空，那就去做吧。
Don't try to control it.
不要试图控制它。
That medicine will take you exactly where you need to go, you just have to let it." And every time I would, I would start, I would scream, and then I would cry and convulse, throw up, and I'd wake up and I'd look around and he'd look at me again, "Hit him again." And I'd do it again, and I'd do it again.
这种药会准确地带你去你需要去的地方，你只需要让它去。”每次我会开始，我会尖叫，然后我会哭泣，抽搐，呕吐，然后我醒来，我环顾四周，他会再次看着我，“再打他一次。”我会再做一次，我会再做一次。
DJ Shipley: And it was the very last time I did 5-MeO, and you got to understand, I was super depressed and I was most certainly suicidal, I did not want to come home and face reality, and I took that last one and right before I did, I can't remember if it was the nurse, because we used to have team guys who would sit there and hold space for you, not taking the medicine, just they were there to basically safeguard the house so you could just focus on you, because it's hard to be put under essentially anesthesia in a foreign country and you don't know what's gonna happen to you.
DJ Shipley：这是我最后一次做 5-MeO，你要明白，我非常沮丧，我肯定有自杀倾向，我不想回家面对现实，我在做之前就做了最后一次，我不记得是不是护士，因为我们过去有团队成员，他们会坐在那里为你留出空间，不吃药，只是他们在那里基本上保护房子，这样你就可以专注于自己，因为这很难在国外基本上处于麻醉状态，你不知道会发生什么。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: So, just comforting knowing there's team guys around you.
DJ Shipley：所以，知道你周围有团队成员，我感到很欣慰。
And it was either the nurse or one of the team guys goes, "You want to kill yourself, right?" I said, "Yeah." And he goes, "Then do it.
要么是护士，要么是一名队员说，“你想自杀，对吧？”我说：“是啊。”他说：“那就去做吧。
Do it with this right here." And I changed my intention for the medicine and I told myself it was this pink toxin, this purple toxin, I'm going to inhale it and I'm gonna coat my entire body with this and I'm gonna kill myself right here so I don't have to go home, and that changed the entire experience for me.
就在这里用这个做吧。”我改变了我对药物的意图，我告诉自己这是这种粉红色的毒素，这种紫色的毒素，我要吸入它，我要用它覆盖我的整个身体，我要在这里自杀，这样我就不必回家了，这改变了我的整个经历。
DJ Shipley: Everything shrunk down jet black, and a single white pixel showed up and it exploded and it looked like it was Star Trek taking off, all the tracers and everything, it felt like your sternum broke open and your soul left your body and it was the true ego death, and it went from screaming, thrashing, to complete bliss, and love, and affection, and empathy, and compassion, and everything.
DJ Shipley：一切都缩小成了乌黑，一个白色的像素出现了，然后爆炸了，看起来就像是《星际迷航》起飞，所有的示踪剂和一切，感觉就像你的胸骨破裂了，你的灵魂离开了你的身体，这是真正的自我死亡，它从尖叫、殴打，到完全的幸福、爱、感情、同理心、同情心，以及一切。
And I woke up and I looked at him and I could not believe the way...
我醒了，看着他，我简直不敢相信……
Instantly, I mean, the most sober you've ever been.
我的意思是，瞬间你就变得最清醒了。
You're not on any medication, not cannabis, not Adderall, nothing.
你没有服用任何药物，没有大麻，没有阿得拉，什么都没有。
You can't be on any medication when you go down there, so this is true sobriety at its finest, and when you wake up, it's exactly like the electrocution.
当你下去的时候你不能服用任何药物，所以这是最好的真正清醒，当你醒来时，就像触电一样。
Everything is more vibrant, the table edges are slick and clean, like I can feel the taste and the texture and I can feel the energy coming out of everybody, and it's like, "I can tell her.
一切都更加充满活力，桌子边缘光滑干净，就像我能感觉到味道和质地，我能感觉到每个人散发出的能量，就像，“我可以告诉她。
I can go home and I can confess everything right now because I understand that I have done more good than bad."
我现在可以回家了，我可以承认一切，因为我知道我做的好事多于坏事。”
DJ Shipley: And she's going to see it.
DJ Shipley：她会看到的。
She just has to see the new me.
她只需要看到新的我。
And we went home and, you know, everything kind of unfolded and all my past indiscretions came to life and it was the darkest moment for me because I didn't think she was going to take me back.
我们回家了，你知道，一切都展开了，我过去所有的轻率行为都浮现出来，这对我来说是最黑暗的时刻，因为我认为她不会把我带回来。
And she ends up pulling my sunglasses off.
最后她把我的太阳镜摘了下来。
She pulls them off, and looks at me, and essentially collapsed in my arms.
她把它们脱下来，看着我，然后倒在了我的怀里。
Like, I was back.
就像，我回来了。
I'd been gone for 15 years and now I'm home and the greatest thing that's ever happened to me.
我离开已经 15 年了，现在我回家了，这是我经历过的最伟大的事情。
And if I wouldn't have gone down to Mexico, there was no talk therapy, there was no meditation, there was no cold plunge that was going to get me there.
如果我不去墨西哥，就没有谈话疗法，没有冥想，也没有冷水潜水可以让我到达那里。
It was something stronger than me.
那是比我更强的东西。
DJ Shipley: And when you look back, I'd been building that physical vessel, this mental resilient vessel this entire time so nothing could break me, and I needed something stronger than that to break me.
DJ Shipley：当你回头看时，我一直在建造那个物理容器，这个精神上有弹性的容器，所以没有什么可以摧毁我，而我需要比这更强大的东西来摧毁我。
And the moment it did, my whole life changed.
当它发生的那一刻，我的整个生活都改变了。
Everything changed.
一切都变了。
And I really became an advocate for the medicine, because I'd been there.
我确实成为了这种药物的倡导者，因为我曾经在那里。
I'd been sitting in my guest room with that pistol in my lap, staring around the ceiling wondering where my brain matter's going to go, and what my wife's going to see, and how she's going to have to clean it up and resell the house and just all the things.
我坐在我的客房里，腿上放着那把手枪，盯着天花板，想知道我的大脑会去哪里，我的妻子会看到什么，以及她将如何清理它并转售房子和所有的东西。
DJ Shipley: I mean, that's where you're at, and that's where a lot of guys are, and they don't believe they can get a breath of fresh air, and that medicine will give it to you.
DJ Shipley：我的意思是，这就是你所在的地方，这就是很多人所在的地方，他们不相信自己可以呼吸新鲜空气，也不相信药物会给你带来新鲜空气。
It is not a cure-all.
它不是包治百病的灵丹妙药。
Even you have to go back and restructure your entire life and cut out the toxicity.
甚至你也必须回去重新调整你的整个生活并消除毒性。
That was one of the most powerful things we did is I came back from that medicine, I sat down on the edge of that bed with my wife after we had gone through everything I had done, and I went through my phone and we blocked and deleted about 150 people out of my life.
这是我们做的最有力的事情之一，我从药物中回来，在经历了我所做的一切之后，我和我的妻子坐在床边，我通过我的手机，我们屏蔽并删除了我生活中的大约 150 个人。
Best thing I ever did.
我做过的最好的事情。
Like, you're never coming back in here.
就像，你永远不会回到这里。
I've been trying to foster and save that relationship for the better part of a decade.
十年来的大部分时间里，我一直在努力培养和保存这种关系。
I'm not doing it anymore.
我不再这样做了。
You're robbing bandwidth and you're robbing the little time I have left on this planet that I'm going to try to devote to my family, because I have to re-earn this seat at the table every single day, and it gave me the ability to do that.
你在抢夺带宽，也在抢夺我在这个星球上所剩不多的时间，而我将努力把这些时间奉献给我的家人，因为我每天都必须重新赢得这个席位，而这让我有能力做到这一点。
DJ Shipley: And I came home, started preaching about the medicine, and then as I started to tell guys, you'd see guys that were interested and they were like, "Well, if it worked for him," because I'm a true believer, I'm devout, and they're like, "If it worked for him, it'll work for me," but they're scared to go.
DJ Shipley：我回到家，开始宣讲这种药物，然后当我开始告诉大家时，你会看到有兴趣的人，他们会说，“好吧，如果这对他有用，”因为我是一个真正的信徒，我很虔诚，他们会说，“如果这对他有效，也会对我有用，”但他们不敢去。
So, I was probably home maybe a month or two, I went right back down and I essentially hosted one.
所以，我可能在家呆了一两个月，然后我就回去了，我基本上主持了一次。
I'm cooking breakfast for the boys, I'm cleaning snot off of them, I'm doing the whole thing just trying to push them.
我正在为孩子们做早餐，清理他们身上的鼻涕，我所做的一切只是为了推动他们。
And slowly but surely, you start saving guys 10 guys at a time over and over.
慢慢地，但可以肯定的是，你开始一次又一次地拯救 10 个人。
DJ Shipley: And, you know, that's really all because of Marcus and Amber.
DJ Shipley：而且，你知道，这都是因为 Marcus 和 Amber。
If they would not have made that little infomercial airing out all their dirty laundry and how open and transparent he was, like, that is not the Navy SEAL way, that is not how you're supposed to do it, and when he did it, it was so empowering to me.
如果他们不会制作那个小小的电视广告来揭露他们所有的脏衣服以及他是多么的开放和透明，就像，这不是海豹突击队的方式，这不是你应该这样做的方式，当他这样做时，这对我来说是如此的有力量。
I mean, I looked up to him.
我的意思是，我仰视他。
I mean, he was on his second deployment when I came in and, you know, Marcus is larger than life to me.
我的意思是，当我进来时，他正在进行第二次部署，你知道，马库斯对我来说意义重大。
So, when you see that openness, that transparency, I can do that.
所以，当你看到这种开放性、那种透明度时，我就能做到。
I can do that too.
我也能做到。
And if I do that, some kid going through the exact same thing as me that's stuck on that island alone will see me and go, "If he can do it, I can do it."
如果我这样做，某个和我经历完全相同的事情、独自困在那个岛上的孩子会看到我并说：“如果他能做到，我也能做到。”
DJ Shipley: You got to want to change, and you have to put steps in place to where you can live at full value.
DJ Shipley：你必须想要改变，你必须采取措施，让你能够充分享受生活。
The morning routine.
早上的例行公事。
I don't break it because I know what happens if I don't have it.
我不会破坏它，因为我知道如果没有它会发生什么。
The worst I've ever been, I wasn't living that morning routine.
我经历过的最糟糕的事情是，我没有过早上的例行公事。
I was still working out, but it was chaotic at best, right?
我仍在锻炼，但充其量只是混乱，对吧？
Like, my range wasn't there, my combatives wasn't there.
就像，我的射程不在那里，我的战斗力不在那里。
I slowly let it drift away to where I was a shell of myself.
我慢慢地让它飘走，变成我自己的躯壳。
And once I got that breath of fresh air, I am never going back.
一旦我呼吸到新鲜空气，我就再也不会回去了。
I mean, I just came back on Saturday.
我是说，我周六才回来。
I went back down again.
我又回去了。
Took down a bunch of veterans, a bunch of civilians that were down there and it's so interesting to see because you have fighter pilots that are down there, you have normal housewives that have drinking problems, toxic marriage, sexual abuse, all this different stuff and everybody's ended up at the exact same spot.
击落了一群退伍军人，一群平民，这很有趣，因为那里有战斗机飞行员，有酗酒问题、有毒婚姻、性虐待等问题的普通家庭主妇，所有这些不同的东西，每个人最终都在同一个地方。
We've tried everything.
我们已经尝试了一切。
DJ Shipley: We tried the drugs, we tried the talk therapy, the cold plunges, the saunas, all that.
DJ Shipley：我们尝试过药物、谈话疗法、冷水浴、桑拿等等。
And it's helping, but it's not getting us over the goal line.
它确实有帮助，但并没有让我们越过目标线。
And when those people wake up the very next day, they are at total rock bottom.
当这些人第二天醒来时，他们已经完全陷入了谷底。
And when they come out of that 5-MeO-DMT, their feet don't hit the ground for months.
当他们从 5-MeO-DMT 中恢复过来后，他们的脚几个月都不会着地。
You are on cloud nine and you cannot believe how good you feel.
你在云九上，你无法相信自己的感觉有多好。
I just want the world to be able to experience that.
我只是希望世界能够体验到这一点。
It doesn't matter what trauma you have going on, it's not a Navy SEAL medicine or a medicine for special operation.
无论你遭受什么创伤，它都不是海豹突击队药物或特种手术药物。
This is a medicine to save humanity, and if you are at the bottom of the barrel right now, they'll save you.
这是拯救人类的良药，如果你现在处于困境，他们会拯救你。
DJ Shipley: I mean, I went on 60 pills a day.
DJ Shipley：我是说，我每天服用 60 粒药。
I'm not on anything.
我什么都不干。
Not a single pain med.
没有一颗止痛药。
I mean, I've got more screws in me than a Home Depot and I feel like a million bucks but, you know, for me, my family deserved it.
我的意思是，我身上的螺丝比家得宝还多，我感觉自己像一百万美元，但你知道，对我来说，我的家人应得的。
And if I have to go down there and go through all that trauma over a five-day period to give them a better version of myself, I'll do it every single time.
如果我必须去那里，在五天内经历所有的创伤，让他们看到更好的自己，我每次都会这样做。
That juice is so worth the squeeze.
那果汁非常值得榨。
But it's scary, man.
但这很可怕，伙计。
It is.
这是。
Because you're afraid.
因为你害怕。
DJ Shipley: And when I talk to guys, they're so afraid they're going to come out of it and be a pacifist.
DJ Shipley：当我和人们交谈时，他们非常害怕自己会摆脱困境并成为和平主义者。
They're afraid they're going to lose the edge and like, "Well, what if you did that medicine while you were in the teams, could you still do that job?" 100%.
他们担心自己会失去优势，然后想，“好吧，如果你在团队中服用了那种药，你还能做那份工作吗？” 100%。
I just wouldn't have drug them home with me.
我只是不会让他们跟我一起回家。
I could have done that job and then powered it off, and I could have done my same routine now and I could have went home and been a full-time husband or full-time father.
我本可以完成那项工作，然后将其关闭，我现在可以做同样的例行公事，我可以回家并成为一名全职丈夫或全职父亲。
I could still compartmentalize it when I went to work, and I could just focus on work, because I'm running on dials and not switches.
当我去上班时，我仍然可以将其划分，并且我可以专注于工作，因为我是在转盘上而不是开关上运行。
DJ Shipley: You can't just turn it on and shut it off.
DJ Shipley：你不能只是打开然后关闭它。
You can't.
你不能。
You got to be able to back it off slowly, and that's why I use that drive into work every day.
你必须能够慢慢地放松下来，这就是为什么我每天都用这种动力去工作。
I'm not thinking about my family in three, two, one.
我不会考虑我的三二一家庭。
All I'm thinking about is the lift, because that's the only priority I have.
我只想着电梯，因为这是我唯一优先考虑的事情。
Once a lift is done, what's the piece of content we're shooting?
电梯完成后，我们要拍摄的内容是什么？
What's the training course we're doing?
我们正在做的培训课程是什么？
Who do I need to be when I walk through that threshold?
当我跨过那道门槛时，我需要成为谁？
And that medicine really gave me the ability to navigate between those spaces better than anything else I've ever found, and I'm so thankful for it.
这种药物确实让我能够在这些空间之间导航，比我发现的任何其他药物都更好，对此我非常感激。
DJ Shipley: I know it sounds hokey and I am not that guy, you know, yoga and, you know, crystal.
DJ Shipley：我知道这听起来很做作，而且我不是那种瑜伽和水晶的人。
I'm not that dude.
我不是那个家伙。
And it's very foofoo.
这非常 foofoo 。
A lot of it is and a lot of people practicing that stuff, they push it so far out in the left that you think that you're going to end up like one of the Lost Boys and running around the rainforest with feathers hanging out of your hair.
很多都是这样，很多人都在练习这些东西，他们把它推到左边太远，以至于你认为你最终会像迷失男孩中的一个一样，在雨林中奔跑，头发上挂着羽毛。
It's not like that.
事情不是那样的。
It's not like that at all.
根本不是那样的。
DJ Shipley: It's an amazing facility, it's an amazing program, and I'm just so thankful that they had the ability to share that message.
DJ Shipley：这是一个令人惊叹的设施，这是一个令人惊叹的节目，我非常感谢他们有能力分享这一信息。
If they wouldn't have, we'd be in the exact same position.
如果他们不这样做，我们就会处于完全相同的境地。
I think they've put I think 3,000 or 4,000 people through that medicine in the last, I think three years.
我认为在过去三年里，他们已经让 3,000 或 4,000 人接受了这种药物治疗。
They're absolutely saving people's lives.
他们绝对是在拯救人们的生命。
Andrew Huberman: It's been remarkable to see the growth of Veteran Solutions.
Andrew Huberman：看到 Veteran Solutions 的成长是非常了不起的。
Again, I have no formal affiliation, it's just something that I observed and I really respect.
再说一次，我没有正式的隶属关系，这只是我观察到的并且我真正尊重的事情。
And my colleague, who's been a guest on this podcast, Dr. Nolan Williams, he's a triple board certified physician, he's my colleague at Stanford, and, you know, a couple of reflections that I think perhaps are also important for people listening to hear, because you said go down there, it's done in Mexico, because it's still not legalized in the United States.
我的同事诺兰·威廉姆斯博士是这个播客的嘉宾，他是一名经过三重委员会认证的医生，他是我在斯坦福大学的同事，你知道，我认为一些想法对于听众来说可能也很重要，因为你说去那里，这是在墨西哥完成的，因为它在美国仍然没有合法化。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: It requires supervision.
Andrew Huberman：这需要监督。
This is very different even than psilocybin, MDMA, LSD.
这甚至与裸盖菇素、MDMA、LSD 都非常不同。
There's really no recreational use of these things that is reasonable or safe.
这些东西确实没有合理或安全的娱乐用途。
So, I'm not saying that just to protect myself, I'm saying that to protect people listening.
所以，我这么说并不是为了保护自己，而是为了保护倾听的人。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: That said, you know, Nolan and I have talked a lot about this.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：也就是说，你知道，诺兰和我已经就此谈了很多。
He's the one scanning guys that go down there and come back, and I think it's fair to say that pretty much every positive shift, whether it's an improvement or a cure from a mental health issue, is brain plasticity, something gets rewired.
他是那个去那里扫描然后回来的人，我认为可以公平地说，几乎每一个积极的转变，无论是心理健康问题的改善还是治愈，都是大脑的可塑性，某些东西被重新连接。
And these are tools to enable brain plasticity.
这些都是实现大脑可塑性的工具。
And I think it's helpful, perhaps, for people to hear it that way because psychedelic sounds like tie-dye, sounds like kaleidoscope, sounds like magic carpet, sounds like the '60s, sounds like people staring at the sun burning their eyes out and then talking about how they've seen God and everyone else needs to have the same experience, summer of love, dirty feet and all that.
我认为这对人们来说也许是有帮助的，因为迷幻听起来像扎染，听起来像万花筒，听起来像魔毯，听起来像 60 年代，听起来就像人们盯着太阳灼伤眼睛，然后谈论他们如何看到上帝，其他人都需要有同样的经历，爱的夏天，肮脏的脚等等。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
It is amazing to me that the veterans community and a bipartisan effort, I will say, this is one of the few truly bipartisan efforts out there, everything is so polarized, but former Governor Rick Perry of Texas, who is self-described knuckle-dragging Republican, he said that, I'm not saying that about him, he says it every time, has fully embraced ibogaine, and heart medicine, it's sometimes called MDMA therapies as well and has been really working with people on the Democratic side of the aisle to try and get FDA approval for this stuff in the United States, for the treatment of veterans and other people with substance use and severe trauma issues first.
让我感到惊讶的是，退伍军人社区和两党的努力，我会说，这是为数不多的真正的两党努力之一，一切都是如此两极分化，但是德克萨斯州前州长里克·佩里，他自称是顽固的共和党人，他说，我不是说他，他每次都这么说，完全接受伊博加因和心脏医学，有时也被称为摇头丸疗法，并且一直在与人们真正合作民主党一方试图在美国获得 FDA 批准这种药物，首先用于治疗退伍军人和其他有药物滥用和严重创伤问题的人。
And then it will be explored how this could wick out into the broader population.
然后我们将探讨如何将其渗透到更广泛的人群中。
Andrew Huberman: But I just think of them as incredibly powerful tools for brain plasticity.
Andrew Huberman：但我只是认为它们是大脑可塑性的极其强大的工具。
And then maybe that just kind of softens for people in their minds a little bit of just how wild and crazy it is.
然后，也许这会让人们的内心变得柔软一些，因为它是多么狂野和疯狂。
I mean, the experiences are extreme, as you said, it's challenging to be in the ibogaine.
我的意思是，这些经历是极端的，正如你所说，进入伊博加因是具有挑战性的。
Heard that from everyone who's done it.
从所有做过这件事的人那里听说过。
I haven't yet done ibogaine.
我还没做伊博加因。
At some point I will, but I've certainly done therapeutic sessions with MDMA, therapeutic, and high-dose psilocybin and it can be terrifying, and you need someone there to help guide you through it at times.
在某些时候我会的，但我确实已经用摇头丸、治疗剂和高剂量裸盖菇素进行了治疗，这可能会很可怕，有时你需要有人帮助指导你完成它。
Andrew Huberman: But I'm so happy that Marcus and Amber undertook this project, that you joined up with that project, and the Netflix movie.
Andrew Huberman：但我很高兴 Marcus 和 Amber 承担了这个项目，也很高兴你们加入了这个项目以及 Netflix 电影。
We'll provide a link to it if it's out.
如果它出来了，我们会提供一个链接。
Otherwise, we'll just cue people to the fact that they should definitely watch this.
否则，我们只会提示人们他们绝对应该观看此内容。
It's an extremely compelling and important story for people to hear.
对于人们来说，这是一个非常引人注目且重要的故事。
Andrew Huberman: I can't help but mention just because I've had the great experience of being able to interact with some of the people around this, and the effort is so wholehearted and it's so deeply rooted in trying to help people, and I think that's really important for people to hear too, because any time there's a business association with things, people start to color that.
Andrew Huberman：我忍不住要提一下，因为我有过与周围的一些人互动的丰富经验，而且我的努力是如此全心全意，而且深深扎根于帮助人们，我认为这对人们来说也很重要，因为任何时候与事物有商业联系的时候，人们都会开始着色。
There's just so much pure intent in all of this.
所有这一切都充满了纯粹的意图。
I also have gotten to know Sarah Wilkinson a little bit.
我也对莎拉·威尔金森有了一些了解。
DJ Shipley: She's amazing.
DJ Shipley：她太棒了。
Andrew Huberman: She's amazing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：她太棒了。
Chad's wife.
查德的妻子。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: First through Veteran Solutions and, you know, she's an amazing woman, you know, and I think it's been challenging to see all these guys that he was friends with get better, right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：首先是通过退伍军人解决方案，你知道，她是一位了不起的女人，我认为看到他的这些朋友变得更好是很有挑战性的，对吧？
And it's so tragic that someone has to take their own life for things like this to eventually get stimulated.
这是如此悲惨，有人必须自杀才能让这样的事情最终受到刺激。
But the amount of good that Veteran Solutions is catalyzing is really spectacular, and so I'm glad we're taking some time to talk about it, and I think it's been discussed on other podcasts, and I think this movement's just going to grow.
但退伍军人解决方案所催化的善意数量确实非常惊人，因此我很高兴我们花一些时间来讨论它，我认为其他播客上也对此进行了讨论，而且我认为这一运动将会不断发展。
I think it's broken through now.
我想现在已经突破了。
DJ Shipley: It has.
DJ Shipley：确实如此。
Andrew Huberman: And hopefully this will continue to help it break through.
Andrew Huberman：希望这将继续帮助它取得突破。
DJ Shipley: When the whole thing first started, John Shank and Bonnie Koen reached out about doing the film "In Ways and War," and they actually kind of tricked me to be a part of it.
DJ Shipley：当整个事情刚开始时，John Shank 和 Bonnie Koen 主动联系制作电影《In Ways and War》，他们实际上是在欺骗我参与其中。
They told me that Marcus and Amber were spearheading this project, so I was like, "If Marcus and Amber are in, I'm in.
他们告诉我马库斯和安布尔是这个项目的带头人，所以我想，“如果马库斯和安布尔参与，我就参与。
I owe them anyway, they saved me, I'm into it." That wasn't really the case.
无论如何，我都欠他们的，他们救了我，我很乐意。”事实并非如此。
They spearheaded me, I'm on board, and then they convinced Marcus and Amber to join on board, and now it's essentially his whole story unfiltered, unbiased, my whole story, and then us going back for my buddy Matty and how all our lives are entangled in teams and just all the trauma we all share, and how we're all getting through it.
他们带头我，我加入了，然后他们说服了马库斯和安布尔加入，现在这基本上是他的整个故事，未经过滤，不带偏见，我的整个故事，然后我们回到我的好友马蒂那里，我们所有人的生活如何纠缠在团队中，我们共同经历的所有创伤，以及我们如何度过它。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: But, you know, it kills addiction in one shot, which is crazy.
DJ Shipley：但是，你知道，它可以一举消除毒瘾，这太疯狂了。
People that are addicted to heroin.
对海洛因上瘾的人。
Like, I dipped Copenhagen for 17 years, never wanted to quit.
就像，我在哥本哈根待了 17 年，从未想过放弃。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I woke up the very next morning from ibogaine and never had a dip since.
DJ Shipley：我第二天早上从伊博加因中醒来，从那以后就再也没有下过水。
Andrew Huberman: That's so wild.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这太疯狂了。
DJ Shipley: And I want to dip.
DJ Shipley：我想泡一下。
Like, I miss it.
就像，我想念它。
And as soon as I smell it, I can't do it.
而且一闻到这个味道，我就做不到了。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It's like, I didn't drink coffee for six months.
DJ Shipley：就像，我已经六个月没有喝咖啡了。
It's like, I want to drink coffee and then I have no desire.
就像，我想喝咖啡，然后就没有欲望了。
My energy levels are through the roof, like everything is better and like, I kind of just want to be normal again.
我的能量水平达到了顶峰，就像一切都变得更好了，就像，我只是想再次恢复正常。
And it's like slow but surely introduce coffee and whatever else, but you have no addictions.
这就像缓慢但肯定地引入咖啡和其他东西，但你不会上瘾。
And I was at the bottom of the barrel.
而我则处于桶底。
I mean, I was taking extreme doses of gabapentin, tramadol, Toradol, everything else and you know, tramadol is not habit forming.
我的意思是，我服用了大剂量的加巴喷丁、曲马多、托拉多以及其他药物，你知道，曲马多不会形成习惯。
Yeah, take it for 12 years and tell me it's not.
是啊，等了12年再告诉我事实并非如此。
Like, it most certainly is.
就像，它肯定是。
And to be able to whitewash all of that gone in one shot, I mean, the doctors told me I was never getting off those meds.
我的意思是，为了能够一击解决所有问题，医生告诉我我永远无法摆脱这些药物。
Never.
绝不。
Like, if you want to function in society, you have to take these medications for the rest of your life.
就像，如果你想在社会上发挥作用，你就必须终生服用这些药物。
And I was fine with it.
我对此很满意。
I'm totally good.
我完全好了。
DJ Shipley: And then on the backside, you see that it doesn't matter if I was drinking a 12-pack a day or if I was just popping these 60 pills, I was under the influence of something all day, every day, for 15 years.
DJ Shipley：从背面看，无论我是每天喝 12 包还是只是服用这 60 粒药，我每天都受到某种东西的影响，持续了 15 年。
That's not how I want to be.
这不是我想要的样子。
It's not how I want to live my next 40 years.
这不是我想要的下一个四十年的生活。
It's like it's really put me in a position where I'm so hyper-aware of everything that I input and then everything that I output.
就好像它真的让我对我输入的所有内容以及我输出的所有内容都非常了解。
Like, it gives you complete control.
就像，它给你完全的控制权。
And I think some guys just need that breath of fresh air, they need that instant relief to go, "Okay.
我认为有些人只是需要呼吸新鲜空气，他们需要即时的缓解，然后说：“好吧。
Okay.
好的。
I could live with this now." And if you just keep living that positive lifestyle, it'll become your new norm.
我现在可以忍受这个了。”如果你继续保持这种积极的生活方式，它就会成为你的新常态。
Right?
正确的？
But you have to really want to change.
但你必须真正想要改变。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
For me, I've never found anything that powerful in my life.
对我来说，我一生中从未发现过如此强大的东西。
Because a lot of guys are scared.
因为很多人都害怕。
They're scared about going down to Mexico and whatever it is.
他们害怕去墨西哥什么的。
There's a 25-person staff in that house with you.
那栋房子里有 25 名工作人员和你在一起。
Three paramedics, three RNs.
三名护理人员，三名注册护士。
They've got cardiac.
他们有心脏病。
They have everybody in there.
他们所有人都在里面。
The chefs in there are amazing.
里面的厨师都很棒。
Michelin star quality, the food you eat, and there's indoor swimming pools.
米其林星级品质，您吃的食物，还有室内游泳池。
There's a Reiki lady in there that will crack your soul open in 15 seconds flat.
那里有一位灵气女士，可以在 15 秒内打开你的灵魂。
I never thought Reiki was a thing until she puts her hands on you.
在她把手放在你身上之前，我从来没想过灵气是什么东西。
Massage therapy, the breath work.
按摩疗法，呼吸疗法。
I mean, it's a whole holistic approach.
我的意思是，这是一个整体的方法。
Because you've never just allowed yourself to be vulnerable in that position, and once you are, they just start to unravel you so fast.
因为你从来不会让自己处于那种境地，一旦你变得脆弱，他们就会很快地让你崩溃。
And that medicine's really the catalyst for the whole thing.
这种药物确实是整个事情的催化剂。
DJ Shipley: And once you see what you can be, like, "I can be the same guy that I was.
DJ Shipley：一旦你看到自己能成为什么样的人，你就会说：“我可以成为以前的我。
Now, I can just control him." I think that's what a lot of guys lose when they leave the teams.
现在，我只能控制他了。”我认为这就是很多人离开球队后所失去的。
Like, "Well, I built myself into this, because of that.
就像，“嗯，正因为如此，我把自己融入了这个领域。
Well, I can't take that with me, so what do I do with this?
好吧，我不能带走它，那我该怎么办呢？
My wife doesn't want this.
我妻子不想要这个。
I don't want this.
我不想要这个。
My kids can't build a relationship with this.
我的孩子无法与此建立关系。
What am I supposed to do now?" And that's when people make those rash decisions is they don't know where to go.
我现在该怎么办？”当人们做出那些鲁莽的决定时，他们不知道该去哪里。
And I think that's what's so powerful about the medicine is that's the only thing stronger than the ego you've built up, purpose-built, is that medicine.
我认为这就是药物的强大之处在于，唯一比你所建立的、专门建立的自我更强大的东西就是药物。
Yeah, changed my life for sure.
是的，确实改变了我的生活。
It's been great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman: Where my mind goes is, you know, people who aren't in the military these days are also really struggling.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：我的想法是，你知道，现在那些不在军队服役的人也确实在挣扎。
Also.
还。
I can point out.
我可以指出。
And, you know, the United States in particular, like, we're at a pretty dark moment.
而且，你知道，尤其是美国，我们正处于一个非常黑暗的时刻。
It took me a while to actually, like, really internalize that.
我花了一段时间才真正将这一点内化。
I was like, "Man." Like, last week, the Charlie Kirk thing, same week or just a few days before, that woman getting killed on the light rail.
我当时想，“伙计。”就像上周查理柯克事件一样，同一周或几天前，那个女人在轻轨上被杀。
You've got conflicts all over the world.
世界各地都有冲突。
You've got a ton of domestic unrest.
你们国内有很多动荡。
And people have come on this podcast and argued that, you know, in the last century, there were a lot more deaths due to war and this kind of thing.
人们来到这个播客并争论说，你知道，在上个世纪，由于战争和此类事情造成了更多的死亡。
Andrew Huberman: And, you know, statistics are one thing, and they're important, but seeing people murdered in cold blood in either very deliberate or in what seemed like almost kind of random, like, "Okay, there was a person there so he killed her.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你知道，统计数据是一回事，而且很重要，但是看到人们被冷血地谋杀，要么是非常故意的，要么是看起来几乎是随机的，就像，“好吧，那里有一个人，所以他杀了她。
If it were someone else, they might have killed.
换了别人，说不定就杀了。
Maybe not." Who knows what the motivation was?
也许不会。”谁知道动机是什么？
You know, and to think about how traumas like that, just the pain of the world can be lifted.
你知道，想想这样的创伤如何才能解除世界的痛苦。
It's hard to imagine it happening en masse, right?
很难想象它会集体发生，对吧？
It's hard, and yet I think we all deep down know that that has to happen.
这很难，但我认为我们内心深处都知道这必须发生。
Andrew Huberman: And I think an attention to what young people are exposed to and trying to save them is, you know, the best thing about our species, right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：我认为关注年轻人所面临的问题并试图拯救他们是我们这个物种最好的事情，对吧？
Protect our young.
保护我们的年轻人。
Put them into a world that's better than the way we found it.
让他们进入一个比我们发现的更好的世界。
And at the same time, what you're describing kind of sounds like the medicine, for lack of a better way to put it, that the society and like this kind of global consciousness really needs.
与此同时，你所描述的听起来有点像社会和这种全球意识真正需要的药物，因为缺乏更好的表达方式。
Andrew Huberman: I've said before, and I'll say it again, I think if you look at humans across history, we've always had conflict.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我以前说过，现在我再说一遍，我认为如果你纵观历史上的人类，我们总是存在冲突。
We've always created trauma for each other.
我们总是给彼此制造创伤。
We've not ever really been perfect, ever.
我们从来都不是真正完美的。
We're not perfect.
我们并不完美。
We're flawed.
我们有缺陷。
We're all flawed.
我们都有缺陷。
I think that's important to remember.
我认为记住这一点很重要。
And that things will improve over time.
随着时间的推移，情况会有所改善。
Perhaps it's going to be like a sawtooth up into the right kind of graph, but you wonder if there was going to be a massive shift in collective consciousness and people were going to really heal their traumas and really start to see other people differently.
也许它会像锯齿一样进入正确的图表，但你想知道集体意识是否会发生巨大转变，人们会真正治愈他们的创伤，并真正开始以不同的方式看待其他人。
Now, that's going to require some very powerful tools.
现在，这将需要一些非常强大的工具。
Andrew Huberman: And I just can't help but think there is no magic solution.
Andrew Huberman：我只是忍不住认为没有神奇的解决方案。
People have to want to change and on and on, but the ibogaine sounds like a special tool, different than the other psychedelics, because of the amount of attention and detail that's required to keep people safe while they do it, you need, you know, heart monitoring and it's a medical treatment in many ways.
人们必须不断地想要改变，但伊博加因听起来像是一种特殊的工具，与其他致幻剂不同，因为在这样做时需要大量的关注和细节来保证人们的安全，你需要，你知道，心脏监测，它在很多方面都是一种医疗方法。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I think we should probably talk about it and frame it that way going forward.
Andrew Huberman：我认为我们应该讨论一下并以这种方式继续前进。
It's a medical treatment.
这是一种医疗。
The word psychedelic is a very loaded phrase and it's one of the things that I worry about, in terms of trying to get ibogaine and other treatments implemented more broadly, in the same way that when about 10 years ago we would think about breath work and I wanted to study respiration physiology in my lab.
迷幻这个词是一个非常沉重的短语，它是我担心的事情之一，因为试图让伊博加因和其他治疗更广泛地实施，就像大约 10 年前我们会考虑呼吸工作一样，我想在我的实验室研究呼吸生理学。
Calling it respiration physiology, you know, we have a clinical trial that we published on that.
你知道，我们称之为呼吸生理学，我们发表了一项临床试验。
If we called it breath work, it's kind of wacky.
如果我们称之为呼吸练习，那就有点古怪了。
You call it respiration physiology, which is also true, people are more willing to embrace it.
你称之为呼吸生理学，这也是事实，人们更愿意拥抱它。
Andrew Huberman: So, these to me are neuroplasticity tools to help rewire one's brain for the better and I am very hopeful that what you've done...
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以，对我来说，这些是神经可塑性工具，可以帮助重新连接一个人的大脑，使其变得更好，我非常希望你所做的......
I mean, again, thank you.
我的意思是，再次谢谢你。
You know, it's like, you know, we always thank people for their service, but here now you've got people that served who are now going into this highly novel, at least for Americans, treatment to help cure trauma and addiction and you guys are first in.
你知道，就像，你知道，我们总是感谢人们的服务，但现在这里有一些服务过的人，他们现在正在进入这种高度新颖的治疗方法，至少对美国人来说，帮助治愈创伤和成瘾，而你们是第一个。
DJ Shipley: Right.
DJ 希普利：对。
Andrew Huberman: And Marcus and Amber are, you know, early and first in.
Andrew Huberman：你知道，Marcus 和 Amber 很早就开始了。
And people will argue, you know, these things have been around for a long time in native cultures, and in jungles.
人们会争论，你知道，这些东西在本土文化和丛林中已经存在很长时间了。
And I will say, just like meditation, just like yoga nidra, just like hydrotherapy, light therapy, it's exactly because it's been shrouded in complicated language that it isn't more broadly implemented.
我想说，就像冥想，就像瑜伽休息术，就像水疗、光疗一样，正是因为它被复杂的语言所笼罩，所以它没有得到更广泛的实施。
And I'm willing to say that a thousand times over.
我愿意说一千遍以上。
If we truly care about people, we don't care what it's called.
如果我们真正关心别人，我们就不会关心它的名字。
Sure, we want to pay respect to people that developed these things long ago, but enough is enough.
当然，我们想向很久以前开发这些东西的人表示敬意，但已经足够了。
Like, it's not about getting credit, it's about getting it out there.
就像，这不是为了获得信誉，而是为了将其传播出去。
DJ Shipley: And you're exactly right.
DJ Shipley：你说得完全正确。
When you say psychedelics, everybody automatically labels it a certain way.
当你提到迷幻药时，每个人都会自动以某种方式给它贴上标签。
And one of the best quotes I've ever heard is we gave ibogaine to my buddy, Matty, and he woke up next day and he goes, "There is nothing recreational about that." Nope, like, there isn't.
我听过的最好的引言之一是我们给了我的朋友马蒂伊博加因，他第二天醒来后说：“这没有什么娱乐性的。”不，好像没有。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Terrifying.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太可怕了。
DJ Shipley: It can be.
DJ 希普利：可以。
Some people wake up and it's bliss the entire time and I'm so glad you have that.
有些人一觉醒来，整个过程都是幸福的，我很高兴你能拥有这样的感觉。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯。
DJ Shipley: But if you were laying in Stanford right now, and you gave me ibogaine, hooked up the heart rate monitors, you were running a study, they wouldn't bat an eyelid.
DJ Shipley：但是如果你现在躺在斯坦福大学，给我伊博加因，连接上心率监测器，你正在进行一项研究，他们不会眨眼。
Be like, "Oh, yeah.
就像，“哦，是的。
It's the same thing."
这是同样的事情。”
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: You have the same people around you, they're taking detailed notes, everything you say, I mean, you might as well be at a clinic.
DJ Shipley：你周围有同样的人，他们正在做详细的笔记，你所说的一切，我的意思是，你还不如在诊所。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: You are.
DJ 希普利：是的。
It's in a beautiful house, beautiful staff, and the entire thing, but that's what it is.
它在一栋漂亮的房子里，有漂亮的员工，一切都如此，但事实就是如此。
This is a treatment.
这是一种治疗。
This is not a bunch of guys eating, smoking, doing whatever, peyote in the middle of the desert.
这不是一群在沙漠中吃东西、抽烟、做任何事的家伙。
It's not what that is.
事实并非如此。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: This is a very structured thing, because you have some serious trauma.
DJ Shipley：这是一件非常结构化的事情，因为你受到了一些严重的创伤。
I think a lot of people label it like, "Oh, this is for guys with PTSD." I didn't go down there for PTSD.
我认为很多人给它贴上这样的标签：“哦，这是为患有创伤后应激障碍的人准备的。”我去那里不是因为创伤后应激障碍。
I went down there for whatever I've turned into, I was trying to get rid of that.
无论我变成什么样子，我都去那里，我试图摆脱它。
And I'll tell you before, nothing in my military career has ever come up.
我之前就告诉过你，我的军事生涯中从来没有发生过任何事情。
None of it.
都没有。
That's not what haunts me.
这不是困扰我的问题。
That's not what plagues me at night.
这并不是晚上困扰我的事情。
It's not what keeps me up till 2:00, 3:00 in the morning.
这并不是让我熬夜到凌晨 2:00、3:00 的原因。
That's not that.
不是那样的。
And I've resolved all the things that was troubling me.
我已经解决了所有困扰我的事情。
And it's because that medicine's so powerful.
也是因为那药力太强大了。
I just hope more people will get ahold of it.
我只是希望更多的人能够掌握它。
And I think if we had the right people putting out the right message on the right platforms, people would get ahold of it.
我认为，如果我们有合适的人在合适的平台上发布合适的信息，人们就会抓住它。
So many people want to hear hate speech.
很多人想听到仇恨言论。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Like, negativity goes a lot more than positivity a lot of the times because people hang onto that.
DJ Shipley：比如，很多时候消极情绪比积极情绪要多得多，因为人们坚持这一点。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It's like, you know, I read something, they were talking about the best public speakers in human history, and Hitler was in the top five.
DJ Shipley：就像，你知道，我读过一些东西，他们在谈论人类历史上最好的公共演讲家，而希特勒名列前五。
And you're like, well, just imagine if he was preaching positivity.
你会想，好吧，想象一下他是否在宣扬积极性。
He could've turned that entire country and really given them something to hang onto.
他本可以改变整个国家，真正给他们一些可以依靠的东西。
He just didn't.
他只是没有。
And you wish that he would've been preaching the Gospel.
你希望他一直在传播福音。
You wish he would've been preaching love and kindness for all of humanity, and then what would've happened in World War II wouldn't have happened.
你希望他一直宣扬对全人类的爱和仁慈，那么第二次世界大战中发生的事情就不会发生。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, humans have an appetite for that anger.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，人类对这种愤怒有胃口。
There's a famous experiment by a guy named Robert Heath, he was a neuroscientist, a neurosurgeon, and very controversial guy for all sorts of reasons.
有一个著名的实验是由一个名叫罗伯特·希思的人进行的，他是一位神经科学家，一位神经外科医生，并且由于各种原因而非常有争议。
But he ran an experiment on humans where he was in the brain stimulating different brain areas, and he would implant little electrodes, these are in humans, and people had the opportunity then later to stimulate different brain areas.
但他对人类进行了一项实验，他在大脑中刺激不同的大脑区域，他会植入小电极，这些电极是在人类身上，后来人们有机会刺激不同的大脑区域。
And different brain areas, when stimulated, evoke different subjective experiences.
不同的大脑区域在受到刺激时会引发不同的主观体验。
So, they'd hit a lever, they'd feel kind of drunk.
所以，他们会敲击杠杆，他们会感觉有点醉了。
Hit another lever, they'd feel sexual arousal.
按下另一个杠杆，他们就会感到性唤起。
Hit another lever, they'd feel laughter.
敲击另一个杠杆，他们会感到笑声。
Others, they'd feel, well, less well.
其他人则感觉不太好。
Andrew Huberman: Do you know the number one brain area?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你知道第一大大脑区域吗？
There weren't many subjects in this, it's a difficult experiment to do, but the number one brain area that these subjects all wanted to hit again and again and again was an area of what's called the midline thalamus that evokes feelings of mild anger and frustration.
这个实验的受试者并不多，这是一个很难做的实验，但这些受试者都想一次又一次地击中的第一个大脑区域是所谓的中线丘脑区域，它会唤起轻微的愤怒和沮丧的感觉。
It's linked to the dopamine system, and it's associated with drive, and it's what we learn, if we're adaptive, to funnel into creating things, building things, doing things.
它与多巴胺系统相关，与内驱力相关，如果我们有适应能力，它就是我们所学到的，可以用来创造事物、建造事物、做事。
But it's very clear that we are hardwired to be pulled into environments and discourses that evoke anger.
但很明显，我们生来就容易陷入引发愤怒的环境和话语中。
Andrew Huberman: I feel like anger and numbing out are the two most dangerous things.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我觉得愤怒和麻木是两种最危险的事情。
And look, I love social media, teach on social media, but being online makes it very easy to feel anger and to numb out.
看，我喜欢社交媒体，在社交媒体上教学，但上网很容易让人感到愤怒和麻木。
And, you know, it's the ultimate drug really to offer that, in my opinion.
而且，你知道，在我看来，这是真正能提供这种效果的终极药物。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And then there's this other lane of life, right, which is harder to access, where the real richness is, where the real stuff is, where real meaning comes from, where time doesn't just disappear, and where you build things that are lasting and that if I die in 10 seconds, I'll know that I'd spent some time in that lane or enough to know that, like, that's where the really good stuff is.
安德鲁·休伯曼：然后还有另一条生活小道，对吧，它更难进入，那里是真正的丰富，哪里是真正的东西，哪里是真正的意义，哪里是时间不会消失的地方，哪里是你创造持久的东西的地方，如果我在 10 秒内死掉，我就会知道我在那条路上花了一些时间，或者足够知道，就像，那才是真正好东西的地方。
And it's a bit more difficult or a lot more difficult to access, but that's real life.
这有点困难，或者更难接近，但这就是现实生活。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And the rest is a game that's being played on us that takes advantage of some hard wiring that I wish didn't exist, but it exists in all of us.
Andrew Huberman：剩下的就是一场在我们身上玩的游戏，它利用了一些我希望不存在的硬连线，但它存在于我们所有人身上。
And I think if we knew that that existed in all of us, just like we have a appetite for sugar, you know, it's hardwired, that we would make better choices.
我认为，如果我们知道这一点存在于我们所有人身上，就像我们对糖的胃口一样，你知道，这是与生俱来的，我们就会做出更好的选择。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So, I'm so glad that you've done ibogaine and DMT in that setting, and that you guys are getting the message out there.
Andrew Huberman：所以，我很高兴你们在这种情况下服用了伊博加因和 DMT，并且你们正在传达信息。
And I don't know what the broader implementation looks like, but I like to think that with collaboration with Nolan, what's happening with Veteran Solutions, Ambio, and other clinics like it, and really good, for once, really good politicians on both sides of the aisle arguing for this, I'm hopeful.
我不知道更广泛的实施是什么样子，但我喜欢认为，通过与诺兰的合作，Veteran Solutions、Ambio 和其他类似的诊所正在发生什么，而且真的很好，这一次，两党都非常优秀的政治家都在争论这一点，我对此充满希望。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I fully support my tax dollars going to the expansion of this.
Andrew Huberman：我完全支持我的税款用于扩大这一项目。
I really do.
我真的这么做。
DJ Shipley: They've been spending a lot of time in the Beltway getting funding, you know, clinical trials, research, doing the entire thing, and they've got a whole coalition now.
DJ Shipley：他们在环城公路上花了很多时间来获取资金，你知道，临床试验、研究，做所有的事情，他们现在已经有了一个完整的联盟。
Navy SEAL Foundation stepped up, the Green Beret Foundation, I think might be the Recon Foundation and Wounded Warrior Project, they all came to a coalition.
海豹突击队基金会挺身而出，绿色贝雷帽基金会，我想可能是侦察基金会和受伤战士项目，他们都结成了联盟。
They're all going to get behind this and all kind of push the exact same message.
他们都会支持这一点，并传达完全相同的信息。
Let's get the funding, let's get the research, let's prove that it works, and hopefully bring it to the U.S. Like, if we have to start with the veterans, because it's a smaller population, less than 1% of the population.
让我们获得资金，让我们进行研究，让我们证明它是有效的，并希望将其带到美国。就像，如果我们必须从退伍军人开始，因为它的人口较少，不到人口的 1%。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Let's target them.
DJ Shipley：让我们瞄准他们。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Let's get first responders and let's open this thing up and, you know, Marcus is doing a lot to really beat that war drum, and I'm just so thankful.
DJ Shipley：让我们派出急救人员，让我们打开这件事，你知道，马库斯正在做很多事情来真正敲响战鼓，我非常感激。
And one of the things he said when we went down there, because you don't realize how palpable toxicity is.
这是我们去那里时他说的一件事，因为你没有意识到毒性有多么明显。
Like, you want to be hateful sometimes, and they're like, "Hurt people hurt people." You've been hurt and now you want someone else to feel that exact same thing, so when you see something hateful on social media, what's the first thing you do?
就像，有时你想变得可恨，而他们就像，“伤害别人就会伤害别人。”您受到了伤害，现在您希望其他人也有同样的感受，所以当您在社交媒体上看到可恨的内容时，您要做的第一件事是什么？
You go to the comments section and you read.
你去评论部分然后阅读。
"Yep, I feel that too.
“是的，我也有这样的感觉。
I like that comment.
我喜欢那个评论。
I'm going to comment underneath it.
我要在下面评论。
Yep.
是的。
Yep." You just start to project that hate over and over and over again.
是的。”你只是开始一遍又一遍地投射这种仇恨。
DJ Shipley: If I look at it, I'm not going to get involved in that.
DJ Shipley：如果我看一下，我就不会参与其中。
Actually, I'm just going to unfollow this person, because every time I see you, you're saying something hateful.
其实我只是想取消关注这个人，因为每次我看到你，你都在说一些可恶的话。
Slow but sure, it's getting out of that toxicity.
缓慢但肯定的是，它正在摆脱那种毒性。
It allows the best form of you to continue to go forward.
它让你以最好的状态继续前进。
But, yeah, I mean, you have to protect your peace.
但是，是的，我的意思是，你必须保护你的和平。
You got to surround yourself with positive people that are better than you that want to try to drag you up that hill, and thank God for people like that, because, man, I mean, if you haven't been there, if you have not been that only guy on the island alone, because I mean, I often say I was the first guy in the SEAL teams to suffer with depression, anxiety, and suicide ideation, because I had never heard of it before.
你必须让自己周围都是积极的人，他们比你更好，想把你拖上那座山，并感谢上帝有这样的人，因为，伙计，我的意思是，如果你没有去过那里，如果你不是岛上唯一的人，因为我的意思是，我经常说我是海豹突击队中第一个患有抑郁、焦虑和自杀意念的人，因为我以前从未听说过。
Right?
正确的？
DJ Shipley: So, I'm in my living room.
DJ Shipley：所以，我在客厅里。
My wife's not there, and we talk about dogs.
我妻子不在，我们谈论狗。
One of the number one reasons I never did it was when I would get to the point where I had made up my mind, that dog would walk in that room and drop his head on my lap and look at me.
我从未这样做的首要原因之一是，当我下定决心时，那只狗会走进那个房间，把头放在我的腿上，看着我。
It's like, "Oh.
就像，“哦。
Not today." I'd get up and I'd go on a walk with the dog.
不是今天。”我会起床，带着狗去散步。
Andrew Huberman: With your Japanese Mastiff?
安德鲁·休伯曼：和你的日本獒一起吗？
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Amazing breed, folks.
Andrew Huberman：伙计们，真是令人惊奇的品种。
I just learned about it today.
我今天才知道。
I absolutely want one of these.
我绝对想要其中之一。
What is the proper name?
正确的名字是什么？
DJ Shipley: Tosa Inu.
DJ 希普利：土佐犬。
Andrew Huberman: They are beautiful beasts.
安德鲁·休伯曼：它们是美丽的野兽。
DJ Shipley: They are amazing.
DJ Shipley：他们太棒了。
Yeah, so my wife's first husband, Danny, they had a Japanese Mastiff and an Old English Bulldog, so when he passed, I met Patsy three years later, those are the dogs I inherited, and you couldn't pick a better dog breed.
是的，我妻子的第一任丈夫丹尼，他们有一只日本獒犬和一只古老的英国斗牛犬，所以当他去世时，三年后我遇到了帕西，这些是我继承的狗，你找不到更好的狗品种了。
It was the most beautiful dog I've ever seen.
这是我见过的最漂亮的狗。
It looked like a Bengal tiger.
它看起来像一只孟加拉虎。
I mean, 200 pounds, but a gentle giant.
我的意思是，200磅，但是一个温柔的巨人。
But one of those things when you walk in the house and that thing sees you, your heart just goes to 180, you're like, "I'm so happy to be home and see this dog right now." It's like it pulls you out of a depression.
但是其中一件事是，当你走进房子，那个东西看到你时，你的心跳就会达到 180 度，你会说，“我很高兴现在能回家看到这只狗。”就好像它能把你从抑郁中拉出来。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I mean, therapy dogs are a real thing, and you know, shout out to the Red Cross.
DJ Shipley：我的意思是，治疗犬是真实存在的，你知道，向红十字会大声喊叫。
I didn't know what the Red Cross did in, you know, 2020.
我不知道 2020 年红十字会做了什么。
Like, what do you do?
比如，你做什么？
They bring in dogs in the hospital beds is what they do for sure.
他们肯定会把狗带进医院的病床上。
They did it for me.
他们为我做到了。
And there's nothing like laying in a hospital bed, you've been throwing up for a week, and you don't have your cellphone.
没有什么比躺在医院病床上、呕吐了一个星期、却没有手机更好的了。
You can't call your wife, and they bring in some giant Saint Bernard that jumps into bed with you, and it is heaven on earth.
你不能打电话给你的妻子，他们会带来一些巨大的圣伯纳犬，它会跳到你的床上，这是人间天堂。
It is.
这是。
It's like that little bit gets you through the hump.
就好像这一点就能帮助你度过难关。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: "What do you bring me tomorrow?" It's like, "We got some Cocker Spaniels." Like, "Bring him in here.
DJ Shipley：“明天你给我带来什么？”就像，“我们有一些可卡犬。”就像，“把他带到这里来。
I don't care what it is now." It's like I just need, I need a dog.
我不在乎现在是什么。”就好像我只需要，我需要一只狗。
I need something that makes me feel better.
我需要一些让我感觉更好的东西。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman: Dogs are amazing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：狗太棒了。
DJ Shipley: They are.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: An Old English Bulldog, just like Costello there.
安德鲁·休伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：一只古老的英国斗牛犬，就像那里的科斯特洛一样。
I mean, those are my people, my creatures.
我的意思是，那些是我的人民，我的创造物。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I just might get a Japanese Mastiff.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我可能会养一只日本獒。
DJ Shipley: You should.
DJ 希普利：你应该这样做。
Andrew Huberman: I'd like to talk about your standards.
Andrew Huberman：我想谈谈您的标准。
DJ Shipley: Mm.
DJ 希普利：嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I've heard you say, "Worst situation is being a big fish in a small pond."
安德鲁·休伯曼：我听你说过，“最糟糕的情况就是成为小池塘里的大鱼。”
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Not many people say that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：没有多少人这么说。
Let's talk about standards, first starting with physical standards, and let's actually get back to the program just briefly.
让我们来谈谈标准，首先从物理标准开始，然后让我们简单地回到该程序。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: You mentioned the five-day-a-week program.
Andrew Huberman：您提到了每周五天的计划。
A little while ago, I saw you put out a fit test, basically, that's designed to be done any time, no preparation, after you've done...
不久前，我看到你做了一个适合性测试，基本上，它是设计成随时进行的，无需任何准备，在你完成后......
It's GBRS?
是GBRS吗？
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Is your program.
Andrew Huberman：是你的程序。
I'm going to sign up for this.
我要报名参加这个。
This is not a promotional.
这不是促销。
I'm just going to do it.
我就去做吧。
I'm going to pay full price.
我要支付全价。
I'm going to insist on paying full price like everyone else.
我会像其他人一样坚持支付全价。
I'm doing this because I turn 50 in about a week, and I want to stay fit going forward, and let me see if I got this right.
我这样做是因为大约一周后我就满 50 岁了，我想继续保持健康，让我看看我是否做对了。
It involves a broad jump, some pull-ups, some push-ups.
它涉及跳远、一些引体向上、一些俯卧撑。
Will you walk us through what the test is and what the program actually provides?
您能否向我们介绍一下测试是什么以及该计划实际提供了什么？
Because I know a lot of people listening are already exercising and are attached to their program, right?
因为我知道很多听众已经在锻炼并且喜欢他们的节目，对吧？
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Guys are like, "I want more lower bicep, rear delt stuff," but this is different.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：大家会说，“我想要更多的二头肌下部、三角肌后束的东西”，但这是不同的。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: This is about all-around functional fitness at any age, men or women.
Andrew Huberman：这是关于任何年龄、男性或女性的全面功能健身。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So, what's the program?
安德鲁·休伯曼：那么，计划是什么？
DJ Shipley: So, we started that program as like a recovery from injury, right?
DJ Shipley：所以，我们开始这个计划就像从伤病中恢复一样，对吗？
I'm just trying to maintain a high standard.
我只是想保持高标准。
I've had a high standard physically since I was 17, right?
我从17岁起身体素质就很高了，对吧？
I've gotten better.
我已经好起来了。
I've had really, really high points and low points, coming back from injury, but I wanted something to be able to maintain a high standard.
从伤病中恢复以来，我经历过非常非常高的分数和低点，但我想要一些能够保持高标准的东西。
And when we got out, you start working with SWAT teams, SEAL teams, every team in between, firemen, and everybody else, and it's such a physical component that cannot be ignored.
当我们出去后，你开始与特警队、海豹突击队、中间的每个团队、消防员和其他所有人一起工作，这是一个不容忽视的身体组成部分。
But so many people in the '80s, '90s, even the early 2000s, like, "Good is good enough." Like, have you ever seen the show "Rescue Me?"
但很多 80 年代、90 年代、甚至 2000 年代初的人都喜欢“好就足够了”。比如，你看过《救救我》这个节目吗？
Andrew Huberman: Mm-mm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Dennis Leary and a bunch of guys, a bunch of firemen in New York, and they had the fat firemen, big handlebar mustaches.
DJ Shipley：丹尼斯·利里（Dennis Leary）和一群人，纽约的一群消防员，他们有胖胖的消防员，大八字胡。
You had the young guys, and you see all this stuff.
你有年轻人，你看到了所有这些东西。
And now if you look at the majority of firemen, they look like professional...
现在如果你看看大多数消防员，他们看起来很专业......
They look like CrossFitters.
他们看起来像 CrossFitter。
Like, they're in shape because they understand we've got so much data on human potential and how to get there: nutrition, sleep, recovery, training protocols.
就像，他们之所以保持健康，是因为他们知道我们拥有大量关于人类潜力以及如何实现这些潜力的数据：营养、睡眠、恢复、训练方案。
And they realize that you are your first lifeline.
他们意识到你是你的第一条生命线。
Your physical vessel is the thing you can get in the airport through TSA.
您可以通过 TSA 在机场获得您的实体船只。
I can get it in the White House.
我可以在白宫拿到它。
I don't need to bring any tools with me.
我不需要带任何工具。
This is a really, really good tool, and it's always with me if I keep it at a high level.
这是一个非常非常好的工具，如果我保持高水平，它就会一直伴随着我。
DJ Shipley: So, we're going through here and, you know, the majority of the military screen tests and SWAT teams, it's all body weight.
DJ Shipley：所以，我们正在经历这里，你知道，大多数军事屏幕测试和特警队，都是体重。
Push-ups, pull-ups, running.
俯卧撑、引体向上、跑步。
The SEAL teams and special operations swim test, and that's about it.
海豹突击队和特种部队进行游泳测试，仅此而已。
You'll do O courses and some other stuff, but the majority of it, that's just what it is.
你会学习 O 课程和其他一些东西，但大部分内容就是这样。
Well, it's not reality.
嗯，这不是现实。
You don't walk around, there's no weigh-in.
你不用四处走动，也无需称重。
You don't walk in in a pair of board shorts and weigh in.
你不会穿着短裤走进去称重。
I mean, you're wearing body armor, helmets, you know, pano night vision.
我的意思是，你穿着防弹衣、头盔，你知道，还有全景夜视仪。
Like, it's a lot of heavy stuff you have to carry, so you're always under an extreme load.
比如，你必须搬运很多重物，所以你总是承受着极大的负担。
But the physical standard was so high as a tier one level.
但身体素质却高达一阶级别。
I mean, the entire force is, but you have to maintain such a high level because everybody else is around you.
我的意思是，整个力量都是，但你必须保持如此高的水平，因为其他人都在你周围。
DJ Shipley: So, when I'm looking at all these SWAT team guys, I'm like, "If you had a physical standard every SWAT team in the country held, if the lowest dude on the team could pass this test, the top guys are at this super elite level.
DJ Shipley：所以，当我看着所有这些特警队员时，我想，“如果你有一个全国每个特警队都达到的身体标准，如果队中最低的家伙能够通过这项测试，那么顶尖的家伙就达到了超级精英的水平。
You're so well-rounded, you can solve anything physically." And that's one of the big things in the military is you never want to have to say no. "Can you 25 guys get up over this mountain and assault that target by 0400 in the morning?" If it can be done physically, we can do it, no matter what.
你太全面了，你可以用身体解决任何问题。”军队里最重要的事情之一就是你永远不想说不。 “你们25个人能在凌晨0400点翻过这座山攻击那个目标吗？”如果可以在物理上完成，我们就可以做到，无论如何。
We'll find a way.
我们会找到办法的。
Move heaven and earth, we'll get it done.
移动天地，我们就能完成它。
It's really, really hard to make a good decision on the backside when you are so physically taxed, because no decision you're ever going to make is without being under extreme duress.
当你身体承受如此大的负担时，真的很难在背后做出正确的决定，因为你做出的任何决定都是在极度压力下做出的。
If we elevate the physical standard, we can make better mental.
如果我们提高身体标准，我们就能改善心理水平。
I mean, we can.
我的意思是，我们可以。
We can make better decisions through mental clarity when we're not just sucking wind.
当我们不只是在胡思乱想时，我们可以通过头脑清醒做出更好的决定。
Andrew Huberman: Also true very much so in civilian life.
Andrew Huberman：在平民生活中也是如此。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：对吗？
DJ Shipley: Everywhere.
DJ 希普利：无处不在。
Like, EMTs, I mean, business, entrepreneurship.
就像急救人员一样，我的意思是商业、创业。
Andrew Huberman: Right.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对。
Andrew Huberman: School teachers.
安德鲁·休伯曼：学校教师。
DJ Shipley: School teachers.
DJ Shipley：学校老师。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: Everybody.
DJ 希普利：大家。
Right?
正确的？
If you're not physically labored, you can make better decisions, so that's the whole goal.
如果你没有体力劳动，你就可以做出更好的决定，所以这就是整个目标。
I don't care if you're a 45-year-old fireman that has an extra 35 pounds of weight on you, or if you're a 19-year-old kid who's in their prime, if you have to run up ten flights of stairs carrying that hose, when you get to the top, execute a good decision.
我不在乎你是否是一名 45 岁的消防员，体重增加了 35 磅，或者如果你是一个 19 岁的正值青春年华的孩子，如果你必须带着水管跑上十层楼梯，当你到达顶部时，请执行一个好的决定。
The guy whose heart rate isn't at 180 is going to make a better decision.
心率不在 180 的人会做出更好的决定。
They just are, and we all know it.
他们就是这样，我们都知道。
DJ Shipley: So, let's set a standard that, you know, I don't care if it's Wednesday, if it's 2:00 in the morning on a Saturday, if you spring out of bed and take this test, you should be able to pass it no matter what.
DJ Shipley：所以，让我们设定一个标准，我不在乎是否是周三，是否是周六凌晨 2:00，如果你从床上跳起来参加这项测试，无论如何你都应该能够通过。
Now, what level are we trying to adhere?
现在，我们要努力坚持什么水平？
As high as humanly possible.
人类所能达到的最高水平。
If I hit the elite standard right now, in three weeks I should hit the elite again.
如果我现在达到精英标准，三周后我应该再次达到精英标准。
If I start to taper off, why?
如果我开始逐渐减少，为什么？
Lack of sleep, poor nutrition, you know, just really crazy op tempo, I'm in the red the whole time.
睡眠不足、营养不良，你知道，节奏太疯狂，我一直处于亏损状态。
Okay, maybe I need to take a couple days off, get back on my training plan to maintain that high level, but we do a broad jump, so power output on the floor in a dynamic fashion, landing, proprioception.
好吧，也许我需要休息几天，重新开始我的训练计划以保持高水平，但我们会进行跳远，因此以动态的方式在地板上输出功率，着陆，本体感觉。
Andrew Huberman: So, just have people stand on a line, jump as far forward as they possibly can.
Andrew Huberman：所以，让人们站在一条线上，尽可能向前跳。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And the lowest standard is your height.
Andrew Huberman：最低标准是你的身高。
DJ Shipley: ...
DJ 希普利：...
your height, right?
你的身高，对吗？
So, if I'm six foot tall, I should be able to broad jump past 6 foot.
因此，如果我身高 6 英尺，我应该能够跳远超过 6 英尺。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: What's the next level up from that?
Andrew Huberman：接下来的水平是什么？
DJ Shipley: 1 foot.
DJ 希普利：1 英尺。
Andrew Huberman: 1 foot past your height?
Andrew Huberman：比你的身高高一英尺？
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
So, 7 feet would be, you know, middle of the road.
所以，7 英尺就是道路的中间。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
DJ Shipley: If I can jump 8 feet, that's really the standard.
DJ Shipley：如果我能跳 8 英尺，那就真的是标准了。
Like, for me, I'm trying to get to a 10-foot broad jump.
就像，对我来说，我正在努力达到 10 英尺跳远。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Like, I want to hit 10 feet, and I want to hold that as long as humanly possible.
DJ Shipley：比如，我想达到 10 英尺，并且我想尽可能长时间地保持这个高度。
Andrew Huberman: And you can swing your arms, no running start, but you just swing your arms forward, jump as-
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你可以摆动你的手臂，不需要跑步开始，但你只需向前摆动你的手臂，然后跳跃-
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: Swing your arms, jump, feet low to the ground, dynamic fashion.
DJ Shipley：摆动双臂、跳跃、双脚着地，动感时尚。
And I always tell the guys, "In reality, you are not going to have time to negotiate the obstacle.
我总是告诉这些人，“实际上，你不会有时间去克服障碍。
Andrew Huberman: Yep.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: You are not going to be able to run up to that ditch and stop and look at it and go, "Okay, I need to get...
DJ Shipley：你不可能跑到那条沟里停下来看看它然后说，“好吧，我需要......
I need to back it up a little bit." You're going to have to go.
我需要稍微支持一下。”你得走了。
DJ Shipley: As a cop chasing this kid down in the city park, you're going to have to scale that 8-foot fence right now.
DJ Shipley：作为一名警察在城市公园追赶这个孩子，你现在必须翻越 8 英尺高的栅栏。
Not look for a step stool, not, "Oh, what can I climb on to get over this?" You're going to have to hit that thing at full value and go up and over it.
不是寻找梯凳，也不是“哦，我能爬上什么来克服这个困难呢？”你必须全力以赴地击中那个东西，然后向上并超越它。
DJ Shipley: You should have the physical ability to do that.
DJ Shipley：你应该有能力做到这一点。
So, we have a broad jump.
所以，我们有一个很大的跳跃。
And a lot of people, Vernon has a really good thing about monkey bars.
对于很多人来说，弗农都非常喜欢单杠。
DJ Shipley: Like, everybody was swinging on monkey bars when you were a kid, and at a certain point in adulthood, you stop doing it.
DJ Shipley：就像，当你还是个孩子的时候，每个人都在单杠上荡秋千，而在成年的某个时刻，你就不再这样做了。
But you'll look at your kid, nine years old, swinging on a monkey bar, just like, "Oh, you're doing it wrong.
但你会看着你九岁的孩子在单杠上荡秋千，就像，“哦，你做错了。
Do it this way."
就这样吧。”
DJ Shipley: Well, jump up there and show them.
DJ Shipley：好吧，跳到那里给他们看。
If you haven't been on monkey bars in 40 years, expect to be humbled really, really fast.
如果您已经 40 年没有去过单杠了，那么您很快就会变得谦虚。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It's like, you use it or lose it.
DJ Shipley：就像，你要么使用它，要么失去它。
It's going to happen.
这将会发生。
So, we're always trying to test ourselves, like, what is going to make me a dynamic participant throughout the whole process?
所以，我们总是试图测试自己，比如，什么能让我在整个过程中成为一个充满活力的参与者？
Broad jump's a really good expression.
跳远真是一个很好的表达方式。
DJ Shipley: We have that.
DJ Shipley：我们有。
In the SEAL teams, we had a legacy test, it was a body weight bench press.
在海豹突击队中，我们进行了一项传统测试，那就是自重卧推。
NFL, it's a 225 bench press.
NFL，是225卧推。
It's not fair for me to give 225 to a kid that weighs 160 pounds, so-
对我来说给一个 160 磅重的孩子 225 是不公平的，所以-
Andrew Huberman: Or a 140-pound woman or a 50-pound woman.
Andrew Huberman：或者 140 磅重的女性或 50 磅重的女性。
Yeah.
是的。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: Your body weight, though.
DJ Shipley：不过，你的体重。
And we go minimum standard, 10 repetitions.
我们采用最低标准，重复 10 次。
Andrew Huberman: 10 repetition single set with your body weight.
Andrew Huberman：根据自己的体重重复 10 组。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
That's minimum standard.
这是最低标准。
15, next level up.
15、再上一个台阶。
20 plus is elite.
20+就是精英。
If you can bench press your body weight 20 times, you are in top tier.
如果你能卧推你的体重20次，那么你就处于顶级水平。
Andrew Huberman: This is full range of movement.
Andrew Huberman：这是全方位的运动。
Bar touches your chest, you're pressing out, all the way to straight arm.
杠铃触碰你的胸部，你用力向外推，直到手臂伸直。
DJ Shipley: All the way.
DJ 希普利：一路走来。
So, 20 reps on that.
所以，重复 20 次。
Pull-ups with no weight.
无负重引体向上。
And we do that because so many guys have so many injuries.
我们这样做是因为很多人都受伤了。
So many shoulder injuries.
肩膀受伤这么多。
DJ Shipley: And if your technique isn't there and you're dropping out of the hole, I don't want you to dislocate and jam up a shoulder.
DJ Shipley：如果你的技术不到位并且你从洞里掉下来，我不希望你脱臼并卡住肩膀。
So, pull-ups are in there.
所以，引体向上就在那里。
We have a farmer's carry.
我们有一个农民的携带。
Andrew Huberman: How many pull-ups, are the-
Andrew Huberman：有多少引体向上，是-
DJ Shipley: 10, 15, and 20 plus.
DJ Shipley：10、15 和 20 以上。
Andrew Huberman: So, 10 with your body weight, 15 is the next level up, and then 20 plus is elite.
Andrew Huberman：所以，10 与你的体重有关，15 是下一个级别，然后 20 以上就是精英。
Okay.
好的。
DJ Shipley: Twenty after that.
DJ Shipley：二十之后。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
And in a perfect world, we do it with weight.
在一个完美的世界里，我们是通过重量来做到这一点的。
In the SEAL teams, we add weight to it.
在海豹突击队中，我们增加了它的分量。
But for everybody, if you can do 20 straight dead hang pull-ups, you're at the top of the physical game, this lesson.
但对于每个人来说，如果你能连续做 20 个直立引体向上，那么在本课中，你就处于体能游戏的顶端。
Andrew Huberman: No kip.
安德鲁·休伯曼：不可以。
Chin clears the bar.
下巴清除了酒吧。
DJ Shipley: Chin clears the bar.
DJ Shipley：下巴超越了标准。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
DJ Shipley: We do a farmer's carry.
DJ Shipley：我们做农民的搬运工作。
So, with your body weight, so if you weigh 200 pounds, you have a 100-pound dumbbell in each hand.
所以，以你的体重来说，如果你的体重是200磅，那么你每只手上都有一个100磅的哑铃。
You get up and you walk it as far as you can.
你站起来，尽可能地走远。
I'd have to look at the exact feet measurement, but I think the elite is almost 300 feet.
我得看看准确的英尺测量值，但我认为精英版几乎是 300 英尺。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: 275 and 250, somewhere around there.
DJ Shipley：275 和 250，就在附近。
And it's not an easy thing to do, but we work so much grip for the pull-ups and everything else.
这不是一件容易的事，但我们在引体向上和其他动作上花了很多力气。
Like, grip matters.
就像，抓地力很重要。
We say that a lot.
我们经常这么说。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It's very hard to climb up a caving ladder on the side of a cruise ship when it's underway.
DJ Shipley：当游轮航行时，爬上游轮侧面的探洞梯是非常困难的。
Your grip's the only thing that's going to get you there, so we really put a lot of focus on gripping.
你的抓握力是唯一能让你到达那里的东西，所以我们真的非常关注抓握力。
DJ Shipley: Firemen need it.
DJ Shipley：消防员需要它。
Cops need it.
警察需要它。
If I'm trying to manipulate a full-grown man through time and space against their will, your grip is a key factor in that.
如果我试图违背一个成年男子的意愿，在时间和空间上操纵他，那么你的抓握就是一个关键因素。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: You ask anybody who grapples.
DJ Shipley：你去问任何一个擒抱的人。
When somebody who grapples, and they know how to use it, grabs ahold of you, you instantly know you're in a world of hurt.
当有人用格斗技术抓住你并且知道如何使用它时，你立刻就会知道你正处于一个受伤的世界。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: You grab some NCAA wrestler, and he grabs a hold of you, the first thing you feel is his hands.
DJ Shipley：你抓住某个 NCAA 摔跤手，他也抓住你，你首先感觉到的是他的手。
"Oh, no. I'm just grabbing a hold of a grizzly bear right now, this is not going to be good." We need everybody to have that same strength.
“哦，不。我现在只是抓住一只灰熊，这不会很好。”我们需要每个人都有同样的力量。
Andrew Huberman: Also, someone's got to open the pickle jar.
安德鲁·休伯曼：另外，必须有人打开泡菜罐。
DJ Shipley: Exactly.
DJ 希普利：没错。
Got to be able to open the pickle jar.
必须能够打开泡菜罐子。
But when you pick up that weight, everything's in it.
但当你拿起这个重量时，一切都在其中。
Your core's in there.
你的核心就在那里。
Your posture really matters, upright.
你的姿势真的很重要，直立。
I've got to be able to control my breathing, ocular focus.
我必须能够控制我的呼吸、眼睛的焦点。
Where am I looking?
我在看哪里？
DJ Shipley: And then how long can I hold onto this?
DJ Shipley：那我能坚持多久？
So, I've got to keep a rigid frame.
所以，我必须保持一个刚性的框架。
I can't lean over and let it take control of me.
我不能俯身让它控制我。
I can't lean back.
我无法向后靠。
I've got to be present throughout the entire movement, and then just push.
我必须参与整个运动，然后推动。
So, we've got that.
所以，我们已经做到了。
We've got a trap bar deadlift.
我们有一个陷阱杠硬拉。
DJ Shipley: We use the trap bar because the majority of guys in that career, they've already got some injuries stacked up.
DJ Shipley：我们使用陷阱杆是因为职业生涯中的大多数人都已经受到了一些伤害。
And we actually put 45-pound bumper plates to pull from a little bit of an elevation because I've got a really long torso.
实际上，我们放置了 45 磅重的保险杠板，以便从一点高度拉动，因为我的躯干非常长。
DJ Shipley: And the big thing we push in that program is we want you to be able to train 52 weeks out of the year.
DJ Shipley：我们在该计划中推动的最重要的事情是我们希望您能够在一年中训练 52 周。
There is no off-season for a fireman.
消防员没有淡季。
There's no off-season for a SWAT team guy.
对于特警队员来说，没有休赛期。
There's no off-season for an Army Ranger.
陆军游骑兵没有淡季。
DJ Shipley: And if you get jammed up in the gym, and I've done it really bad, the mission doesn't care.
DJ Shipley：如果你被困在健身房里，而我做得很糟糕，任务也不在乎。
You have to go anyway.
无论如何你都得走。
And now you're not at 100%.
现在你还没有达到100%。
And the entire patrol in, you're thinking about your lower back and if you're going to be able to perform on target.
在整个巡逻过程中，您都会考虑自己的下背部以及是否能够达到目标。
DJ Shipley: We can't have that.
DJ Shipley：我们不能这样。
We're trying to increase your confidence, never decrease it.
我们正在努力增强您的信心，而不是降低它。
So, that's why we pull from that.
所以，这就是我们从中汲取灵感的原因。
That is one and a half times your body weight is the minimum standard.
最低标准是你体重的一倍半。
Andrew Huberman: For how many repetitions?
Andrew Huberman：重复多少次？
DJ Shipley: Five.
DJ 希普利：五个。
Andrew Huberman: One and a half times your body weight?
Andrew Huberman：你体重的一倍半？
Okay.
好的。
DJ Shipley: And then two times your body weight, and I think it's two and a half times your body weight is the elite, for a set of five.
DJ Shipley：然后是你体重的两倍，我认为是你体重的两倍半是精英，一组五个。
You know, you can obviously do more.
你知道，你显然可以做得更多。
I think I did a set of 12 in that video.
我想我在那个视频中做了一组 12 个。
But it's just-
但这只是——
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: ...
DJ 希普利：...
can I pick up double body weight under control without slamming on the ground, proper form, in control the entire time?
我可以在不猛烈撞击地面的情况下，以适当的形式，始终控制住双倍体重吗？
So, we add in all those.
所以，我们添加所有这些。
DJ Shipley: So, the broad jump, the farmer's carry, the body weight bench, the pull-ups, the trap bar deadlift, and we have an 800-meter run.
DJ Shipley：所以，跳远、农夫负重训练、引体向上、斜杠硬拉，还有 800 米跑。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: We also have a plank for time.
DJ Shipley：我们还有一个时间板。
So, a minute and a half, two minutes...
那么，一分半钟、两分钟……
No, it's two minutes, two and a half minutes, and three minutes, so I'm-
不，是两分钟、两分半钟和三分钟，所以我——
Andrew Huberman: Just on the forearms, the planking?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：就在前臂上，木板？
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: However you want to hold it.
DJ Shipley：但是你想握住它。
DJ Shipley: And we were going to do sit-ups originally, but sit-ups is such a hip flexor-dominant position.
DJ Shipley：我们原本打算做仰卧起坐，但仰卧起坐是髋部屈肌主导的姿势。
Because I have that long torso, if I don't anchor my feet, 50 sit-ups is really, really hard for me.
因为我的躯干那么长，如果我不固定我的脚，50个仰卧起坐对我来说真的很难。
And how do you gauge it?
你如何衡量它？
Are your hands interlocked behind your back?
你的双手是否在背后交叉？
DJ Shipley: There's a whole bunch of different ways to cheat it.
DJ Shipley：有很多不同的方法可以欺骗它。
It's very hard to cheat a plank.
欺骗平板支撑是非常困难的。
But your core is so important.
但你的核心是如此重要。
And that's something Vernon got me doing.
这就是弗农让我做的事情。
I had a lot of lower back injuries, as we all do.
和我们所有人一样，我的腰部也受过很多伤。
I started walking around with my core at, like, 40 to 50% flexed all day, every day.
我开始每天都以 40% 到 50% 的弯曲度四处走动。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: My lower back issues went away instantly.
DJ Shipley：我的下背部问题立即消失了。
So, I walk around with a little bit of tension all day long.
所以，我整天都带着一点紧张的心情走来走去。
Just imagine walking around the pool with your shirt off.
想象一下脱掉衬衫在泳池周围散步。
A little bit of tension in your abs, and it protects my lower back.
你的腹肌有一点紧张，它可以保护我的下背部。
So, we always say be an active participant throughout the entire movement.
所以，我们总是说要积极参与整个运动。
DJ Shipley: I'm never going to let my core go to jello because then my lower back will spasm.
DJ Shipley：我永远不会让我的核心变成果冻，因为那样我的下背部会痉挛。
Everything is locked in, everything's in control, my intensity's there, my focus is there, and I've blocked out all the stray voltage.
一切都被锁定，一切都在控制之中，我的强度在那里，我的焦点在那里，并且我已经屏蔽了所有的杂散电压。
So we get through that, and then we do an 800-meter run.
所以我们完成了这个任务，然后进行 800 米跑。
DJ Shipley: I wanted to do 400-meter repeats, do a 400, stop, as long as it took you to run, execute another one in the same amount of time.
DJ Shipley：我想做 400 米重复，做 400 米，停下来，只要你跑完，在同样的时间内执行另一次。
DJ Shipley: Well, the SWAT team, they have an 800-meter run.
DJ Shipley：嗯，特警队，他们有 800 米的跑步。
We're like, "Well, since you already do it, I don't need a guy that can run a marathon.
我们会说，“好吧，既然你已经做到了，我不需要一个能跑马拉松的人。
DJ Shipley: I need a guy that can throw a 200-pound guy over his shoulders, run him up 10 flights of stairs, and make a good decision." So, being a marathon runner, while it might be great for you, it doesn't really give me everything I need.
DJ Shipley：我需要一个能够将 200 磅重的人扛在肩上，让他跑上 10 层楼梯，并做出正确决定的人。”所以，作为一名马拉松运动员，虽然这对你来说可能很棒，但它并不能真正给我所需的一切。
DJ Shipley: I really need that hybrid athlete.
DJ Shipley：我真的需要那个混合型运动员。
And that 800 meter, I didn't realize, and then I talked to everybody who's a distance runner, the 800 is brutal.
那个 800 米，我没有意识到，然后我和所有长跑运动员交谈，800 米是残酷的。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: It's too fast to fully sprint and you can't slow down because that time metric, I think, is 3:15, three minutes, and 2:45 to be the elite.
DJ Shipley：完全冲刺太快了，你不能放慢速度，因为我认为时间标准是 3 分 15 秒，三分钟，2 分 45 秒才能成为精英。
So, I think I'm in, like, the 2:40 range right now, but I haven't run it since I snapped my hip.
所以，我想我现在大概在 2 分 40 秒的范围内，但自从我摔断臀部后我就再也没有跑过。
DJ Shipley: Other than sprints, I don't distance run because it hurts my hip too bad.
DJ Shipley：除了短跑之外，我不进行长跑，因为它对我的臀部伤害太大。
But I'm able to get through it.
但我能够挺过去。
I've got a laundry list of injuries and we did that entire test cold bore.
我有一份受伤清单，我们进行了整个冷孔测试。
DJ Shipley: We basically wrote it down and the whole thing, when I sat down with Vernon, I was like, "I need something to drive to." I do better when there's a target goal on the wall.
DJ Shipley：我们基本上把它写下来，整个事情，当我和 Vernon 坐下来时，我想，“我需要开车去某个地方。”当墙上有目标时我会做得更好。
Like two years ago, it was a 400-pound bench press.
和两年前一样，还是400磅的卧推。
DJ Shipley: I have never been able to bench press 400 pounds, I've missed it every time, my shoulders are all blown out.
DJ Shipley：我从来没有能够卧推400磅，每次都错过了，我的肩膀都被炸掉了。
And I was like, "With all the injuries, I want to press 400 pounds one time before I hang it up forever."
我当时想，“尽管受了这么多伤，我想在永远挂起之前先举一次 400 磅的重量。”
DJ Shipley: We train the entire year, hit 407, re-racked it.
DJ Shipley：我们训练了一整年，达到了 407，然后重新进行训练。
Now what?
现在怎么办？
I need to hold a high standard.
我需要保持高标准。
And what is it?
那是什么？
DJ Shipley: Well, if I was on a SEAL team or a SWAT team and every dude could pass that test, we have a physical dynasty, because not everyone can.
DJ Shipley：嗯，如果我在海豹突击队或特警队，并且每个人都能通过测试，那么我们就有了一个物理王朝，因为不是每个人都能做到。
But it gives you something.
但它给了你一些东西。
You'd look at me and it's like, "I've got a laundry list of injuries, dude.
你会看着我，就像是，“我有一份伤病清单，伙计。
I'm on the wrong side of 40 right now.
我现在正处于40岁的错误一边。
DJ Shipley: I've never taken my foot off the gas.
DJ Shipley：我从来没有离开过油门。
And neither should you.
你也不应该。
You're 22 years old, you should be running circles around me.
你都22岁了，应该围着我转圈。
And if you're not, just because you don't care enough." Like no one has slapped you, and that's the whole concept of Be a Pro.
如果你不是，那只是因为你不够在乎。”就像没有人打过你一巴掌一样，这就是“成为专业人士”的全部理念。
DJ Shipley: Everything I'm doing is putting me in position to be the best version of myself because the team deserves it.
DJ Shipley：我所做的一切都是为了让我成为最好的自己，因为团队应得的。
Everything I do, everything I say, everything I represent should be putting the group in a better position.
我所做的一切、我所说的一切、我所代表的一切都应该让团队处于更好的位置。
DJ Shipley: And for us, because it's such a dangerous job, your physical readiness, it can't be ignored.
DJ Shipley：对我们来说，因为这是一项非常危险的工作，所以你的身体准备情况不容忽视。
That is the one thing that everyone should be able to count on.
这是每个人都应该能够信赖的一件事。
DJ Shipley: And they should look at you.
DJ Shipley：他们应该看着你。
Well, I know John cares.
嗯，我知道约翰很关心。
Look at him, he didn't wake up like that.
你看他，还没醒呢。
That dude is in the gym five days a week because he wants to be the best fireman he can possibly be.
那家伙每周去健身房五天，因为他想成为最好的消防员。
DJ Shipley: And that's what we push out.
DJ Shipley：这就是我们推出的。
And the standard has been great.
而且标准非常好。
I mean, a lot of guys get super humbled by him, and you know some guys lie because I see their numbers, like, "There's no way you did that," but it keeps them honest.
我的意思是，很多人都对他感到非常谦卑，你知道有些人撒谎是因为我看到他们的数据，比如，“你不可能这么做”，但这让他们保持诚实。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, and it's tough.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，这很难。
I mean, I looked at those numbers.
我的意思是，我查看了这些数字。
I mean, I think most people who've been training regularly will find that maybe two or three of the things come naturally to them-
我的意思是，我认为大多数定期训练的人会发现，也许其中两三件事对他们来说是很自然的——
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: ...
安德鲁·休伯曼：...
and others are difficult, because everyone's got different- Like, I have a really short torso, long arms, so certain things are easier, certain things are harder.
有些事情很困难，因为每个人都有所不同——比如，我的躯干很短，手臂很长，所以某些事情更容易，某些事情更难。
Like-
就像-
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: ...
安德鲁·休伯曼：...
I think that's what I really like about it, it's spread out across the table so that no one person can dominate just by virtue of some previous sport history or natural proclivity based on body shape or something.
我认为这就是我真正喜欢它的地方，它分布在桌子上，这样任何人都不能仅仅凭借以前的运动历史或基于体型或其他东西的自然倾向来占据主导地位。
Andrew Huberman: How often are you having people self-test on this?
Andrew Huberman：您多久让人们对此进行自我测试？
DJ Shipley: We tell the guys whenever they're ready.
DJ Shipley：只要他们准备好，我们就会通知他们。
We did a 12-week block on it, and I've been traveling a lot, so haven't really been able to retest.
我们为此进行了 12 周的测试，而且我经常出差，所以还没有真正能够重新测试。
We're coming up on it in maybe the next two weeks or so.
我们可能会在接下来的两周左右讨论这个问题。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Going to retest just to see where it's at.
DJ Shipley：要重新测试看看它在哪里。
But that was the interesting thing is, I called back to the command, to our strength conditioning coaches, and I pulled out all my scores from a test that's very, very similar, body weight bench, max pull-ups, did the whole thing.
但有趣的是，我给指挥部打电话给我们的体能教练，我从一个非常非常相似的测试中拿出了我所有的分数，体重卧推，最大引体向上，完成了整个过程。
DJ Shipley: My numbers now, 15 years later, some are better than they were when I was in my 20s.
DJ Shipley：15 年后，我现在的数据有些比我 20 多岁时的数据要好。
Andrew Huberman: Awesome.
安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。
DJ Shipley: And it's like, I'm not training for that.
DJ Shipley：我的训练并不是为了这个。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: This is just the program.
DJ Shipley：这只是节目。
It keeps me at a super high level.
它使我保持在超高水平。
And we had a doctor from Duke University come down and do some CQB testing on me, and we had to test VO2 max.
我们请了杜克大学的一位医生来对我进行一些 CQB 测试，我们必须测试最大摄氧量。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I haven't trained for VO2 max in 20 years, and my VO2 max is still on the top 0.0001% of the Earth.
DJ Shipley：我已经 20 年没有进行过最大摄氧量训练了，而我的最大摄氧量仍然处于地球前 0.0001% 的水平。
All the elite athletes, "I don't train VO2 max."
所有的精英运动员，“我不训练最大摄氧量。”
DJ Shipley: And my breathing is so inefficient, and that's what he laughed about.
DJ Shipley：我的呼吸效率很低，这就是他笑的原因。
You're ultra sounding my diaphragm, and he's like, "Your breathing's terrible.
你用超音波探测我的横膈膜，他说：“你的呼吸很糟糕。
DJ Shipley: But it translates to where your VO2 max is awesome." He's like, "You can live forever.
DJ Shipley：但这意味着你的最大摄氧量非常棒。”他说，“你可以永远活下去。
That's how we determine how long you're going to live for is VO2 max, and your VO2 max is through the roof."
这就是我们确定您的最大摄氧量能活多久的方式，而您的最大摄氧量已经达到极限。”
DJ Shipley: I don't train it.
DJ Shipley：我不训练它。
If you just do the program, maintain it consistently, it'll give you such a well-rounded approach to everything.
如果你只是执行该计划并始终如一地维护它，它将为你提供处理一切事情的全面方法。
And that's the big thing is I don't want to have to say no.
最重要的是我不想说不。
DJ Shipley: "Hey, can you pick that up?" Yeah.
DJ Shipley：“嘿，你能接一下吗？”是的。
"Can you jump over that?" Yeah.
“你能跳过那个吗？”是的。
"Can you move that out of the way?" Yep.
“你能把它移开吗？”是的。
"Can you move him through time and space?" Yep.
“你能让他穿越时空吗？”是的。
Andrew Huberman: Also helps because you have kids and they, you know-
安德鲁·休伯曼：也有帮助，因为你有孩子，他们，你知道-
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: ...
安德鲁·休伯曼：...
swimming, playing, running around.
游泳、玩耍、奔跑。
And also setting a high standard within the family.
并在家庭内部树立了高标准。
Andrew Huberman: You know, I think there are always two sides to the fitness/nutrition conversation.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你知道，我认为健身/营养对话总是有两个方面。
Andrew Huberman: One is, I'll just say it, I feel like the standards in the United States have drifted so far in terms of what we consider healthy, what we're willing to accept.
安德鲁·休伯曼：一是，我只想说，我觉得美国的标准在我们认为健康的、我们愿意接受的方面已经发生了很大的变化。
Andrew Huberman: My dad, who is not, he's a first-generation immigrant here, I'll never forget, in the, I think it was in the mid '90s or something, he said to me, he said, "You know, today I went..." He was talking about himself, he said, "I went to the movies and I saw people in pajamas."
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的父亲不是，他是这里的第一代移民，我永远不会忘记，在 90 年代中期左右，他对我说，“你知道，今天我去了……”他在谈论自己，他说，“我去看电影，看到人们穿着睡衣。”
Andrew Huberman: And I was like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "People go to the movies now as if they just woke up, in their slippers and pajamas."
安德鲁·休伯曼：我当时想，“你是什么意思？”他说，“现在人们穿着拖鞋和睡衣去看电影，就像刚睡醒一样。”
Andrew Huberman: And I said, "Oh, yeah?" And he said, "This is the beginning of the end."
安德鲁·休伯曼：我说，“哦，是吗？”他说：“这是终结的开始。”
Andrew Huberman: He said, "Because when that slips, then pretty soon it's like, you're willing to tolerate things on the street, then people aren't weeding their lawns, and then pretty soon, it just breeds this general disinterest in taking care of things."
安德鲁·胡伯曼：他说，“因为当这种情况发生时，很快就会出现这样的情况，你愿意容忍街上的事情，然后人们就不再给草坪除草，然后很快，它就会滋生出对照顾事物的普遍不感兴趣。”
Andrew Huberman: And then, I can't link it directly to people going to the movies in their pajamas, but...
安德鲁·休伯曼：然后，我无法将其直接与穿着睡衣去看电影的人联系起来，但是......
Andrew Huberman: And everyone likes to be comfortable, so, yeah, I don't think he was saying everyone should avoid wearing sweatpants, but I think what he was saying is, you know, etiquette and self-care and self-respect is projected outward.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：每个人都喜欢舒服，所以，是的，我不认为他是在说每个人都应该避免穿运动裤，但我认为他所说的是，你知道，礼仪、自我保健和自尊是向外投射的。
So that's one side of it, right?
这是一方面，对吗？
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: 35% of the United States is obese, not just overweight, but obese.
Andrew Huberman：美国有 35% 的人肥胖，不仅仅是超重，而且肥胖。
On the other side is the opportunity, right?
另一方面就是机会，对吗？
So it's always good to think about the opportunity.
因此，考虑一下机会总是好的。
Andrew Huberman: And, the program that you're offering, it clearly is great for first responders and people with high-intensity, high-demand work.
Andrew Huberman：而且，您提供的计划显然非常适合急救人员和从事高强度、高要求工作的人员。
Andrew Huberman: But the reason I'm interested in it is because I want to be fit for the next 50 years, and so I'm going to try it because I want to train to be able to do these things when I'm 70 or 80 or 90.
Andrew Huberman：但我对此感兴趣的原因是因为我想在未来 50 年保持健康，所以我要尝试一下，因为我想通过训练在 70 岁、80 岁或 90 岁的时候能够做这些事情。
Andrew Huberman: I figure if I get out that far, it's kind of like, "How could I possibly do it then?" Well, by doing it every day until then, right?
Andrew Huberman：我想如果我走出那么远，就会有点像，“那我怎么可能做到呢？”好吧，在那之前每天都这样做，对吗？
That's obvious.
这是显而易见的。
The solution's obvious.
解决方案是显而易见的。
So is this a program that women, men,-
这是一个让女性、男性——
DJ Shipley: Everybody's on it.
DJ Shipley：每个人都在关注。
Andrew Huberman: ...
安德鲁·休伯曼：...
anyone could do?
任何人都可以做吗？
And the training doesn't just center around these movements?
而且训练不只是围绕这些动作？
DJ Shipley: No, no, no.
DJ 希普利：不，不，不。
Andrew Huberman: It centers around the five-day-a-week program.
Andrew Huberman：它以每周五天的计划为中心。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And my understanding is there's tutorial in there.
Andrew Huberman：我的理解是那里有教程。
Like, you get some support.
就像，你得到一些支持。
Because I think this is really what's missing from most online programs.
因为我认为这确实是大多数在线程序所缺少的。
DJ Shipley: All the support.
DJ Shipley：所有的支持。
Andrew Huberman: Because anyone can go to YouTube or look online and go, "You know, what's the..." We even have a foundational fitness protocol.
Andrew Huberman：因为任何人都可以访问 YouTube 或在线查看，然后说“你知道，那是什么……”我们甚至有一个基本的健身协议。
It's what I've been doing for the last 30-something years, and I'm starting to modify that now based on the GBRS and this fit test.
这就是我过去 30 多年一直在做的事情，现在我开始根据 GBRS 和这个适合性测试对其进行修改。
Andrew Huberman: But it's a whole other thing to have support and have people working with you, because this is about not being the only fish in the pond.
Andrew Huberman：但是获得支持并让人们与你一起工作完全是另一回事，因为这并不是池塘里唯一的鱼。
DJ Shipley: One of the things that program does better than anything else I've ever seen is, there's probably 800 to 1,000 movement tutorials.
DJ Shipley：该程序比我见过的任何其他程序都做得更好，其中之一是，可能有 800 到 1,000 个动作教程。
They're either guided by me, with Vernon doing all the coaching cues, "Big toe down.
他们要么由我指导，由弗农执行所有的教练提示，“大脚趾朝下。
Feel this.
感受一下这个。
Roll this hip over.
把这个臀部翻过来。
You'll feel this."
你会感觉到这一点。”
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: He navigates it so well verbally and physically.
DJ Shipley：他在语言和身体上都驾驭得很好。
You can watch him.
你可以观察他。
He'll manipulate me, demonstrating exactly what you'll feel and touch.
他会操纵我，准确地展示你的感受和触摸。
Then the message board on the back side.
然后是背面的留言板。
DJ Shipley: So when you finish the workout, everybody else who's done that workout, all, you know, thousands of people, they comment on how they're feeling.
DJ Shipley：所以当你完成锻炼时，所有完成锻炼的人，所有，你知道，成千上万的人，他们都会评论他们的感受。
DJ Shipley: And he'll read them.
DJ Shipley：他会读它们。
He's like, "Hey, guys.
他就像是，“嘿，伙计们。
Looks like everybody's getting a little fatigued after the last couple of weeks, after this power block we just did.
经过过去几周，在我们刚刚完成的能量块之后，看起来每个人都有点疲劳了。
Hey, we're going to taper off for the next five days.
嘿，我们将在接下来的五天内逐渐减少。
DJ Shipley: We're going to regroup, and the following Monday, we're going to push, and this is what we're going to do." So he'll sprinkle in more running.
DJ Shipley：我们要重新集结，下周一我们要努力，这就是我们要做的。”所以他会投入更多的跑步。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: You know, when summertime comes around, we'll start to add on a little bit more, but we add in 20-minute walks every day so everybody gets them right after you leave.
DJ Shipley：你知道，当夏季到来时，我们会开始增加一些步行时间，但我们每天都会增加 20 分钟的步行时间，这样每个人在你离开后就可以得到它们。
I steal a bunch of stuff from you.
我偷了你的一堆东西。
DJ Shipley: Like, shit can of sunglasses, let's get some vitamin D, straighten your eyes first thing in the morning, set circadian rhythm.
DJ Shipley：就像，该死的太阳镜，让我们吃点维生素 D，早上第一件事就是伸直眼睛，设定昼夜节律。
I do the same thing at night.
我晚上也做同样的事情。
It's like, they've all been saying the same thing, man.
就像，他们都在说同样的话，伙计。
DJ Shipley: If you just make it part of your routine, and Schwarzenegger says it too.
DJ Shipley：如果你只是让它成为你日常生活的一部分，施瓦辛格也这么说。
Like, "Hey, did you work out yesterday?" "Uh-huh.
比如，“嘿，你昨天锻炼了吗？” “嗯嗯。
I'm going to work out tomorrow and the next day.
明天和后天我要去锻炼。
I brush my teeth twice a day too.
我也每天刷两次牙。
I'm going to continue doing it.
我将继续这样做。
DJ Shipley: It's part of my routine, and I'm not going to miss it." I've been doing this, and I haven't missed a session for six years, and I am not going to miss one tomorrow.
DJ Shipley：这是我日常工作的一部分，我不会错过它。”我一直在这样做，六年来我没有错过任何一场会议，明天我也不会错过任何一场。
Why would I?
我为什么要这么做？
You're seeing what it's doing for me.
你已经看到它对我有什么作用了。
DJ Shipley: I mean, I've got a laundry list of injuries, and I'm still able to perform at a super high level because I'm not taking my foot off the gas.
DJ Shipley：我的意思是，我已经收到了一长串的伤病清单，但我仍然能够发挥超高水平，因为我没有放松警惕。
There's nothing magical about me.
我没有什么神奇的。
I'm the most normal dude you'll ever meet.
我是你见过的最正常的人。
DJ Shipley: But I mean, we have 65, 70-year-olds on that program.
DJ Shipley：但我的意思是，我们有 65 岁、70 岁的人参与该计划。
And if you can't do one, if you have a limitation, so do we.
如果您做不到，如果您有限制，我们也有。
You can do a drop-down menu, and there'll be 40 different exercises to pick from.
你可以做一个下拉菜单，有 40 种不同的练习可供选择。
DJ Shipley: So if I go to a hotel gym, I don't have it, very first thing I do.
DJ Shipley：所以如果我去酒店健身房，我做的第一件事就是没有健身房。
I walk down, I scan the whole thing, I send it to Vernon.
我走下来，扫描了整个内容，然后将其发送给弗农。
He's like, "Ooh.
他就像是，“哦。
Only dumbbells to 50, huh?" It's like, "Yeah." And he'll send me a workout.
只有哑铃到50，是吧？”就像是，“是的。”他会给我发一份锻炼报告。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Or I'll just drop down the menu.
DJ Shipley：或者我直接下拉菜单。
Like, "Okay, well, because today's my leg day, I'm actually going to do Friday's workout, and I'll shift Thursday because I'll be home at my home gym.
就像，“好吧，因为今天是我的腿部训练日，我实际上要进行周五的锻炼，周四我会轮班，因为我会在家里的健身房。
I'll do Thursday's workout on Friday."
我会在周五进行周四的训练。”
DJ Shipley: Get playful with it.
DJ Shipley：玩起来吧。
Andrew Huberman: So it's flexible.
Andrew Huberman：所以它很灵活。
DJ Shipley: Oh, it's flexible.
DJ Shipley：噢，这很灵活。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, it's so important.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，这非常重要。
I mean, I think really, standards are what we all need for ourselves, and standards are what, honestly, I think this country needs.
我的意思是，我认为确实，标准是我们自己所需要的，老实说，我认为标准也是这个国家所需要的。
Andrew Huberman: And it's tricky because within this new administration, the whole notion of MAHA quickly got kind of stained by the politicizing of the motives and all that.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：这很棘手，因为在这个新政府中，MAHA 的整个概念很快就被动机的政治化等所玷污。
Andrew Huberman: In the end, people need to eat better, train better, and there are real medical issues out there people are contending with.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：最后，人们需要吃得更好，训练得更好，而且人们正在应对真正的医疗问题。
But just imagine if people actually started to take their physical body seriously.
但试想一下，如果人们真的开始认真对待自己的身体的话。
Andrew Huberman: You know, this is something I really want to, I'm going to say it again later, but I want to say it now very clearly.
Andrew Huberman：你知道，这是我真正想说的，我稍后会再说一遍，但我现在想说得非常清楚。
Andrew Huberman: One thing that I think is so absolutely clear from everything you said about your backstory, where you're at now,
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：我认为从你所说的关于你的背景故事以及你现在所处的位置中可以清楚地看到一件事，
Andrew Huberman: the ibogaine work, your care for first responders, your care for your teammates, your family, is that you take yourself seriously.
Andrew Huberman：伊博加因的工作，你对急救人员的关心，你对你的队友，你的家人的关心，就是你认真对待自己。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So for you, it's a yeah.
Andrew Huberman：所以对你来说，这是肯定的。
I think most people take their feelings seriously.
我认为大多数人都会认真对待自己的感受。
They take their responses to what's going on in their life seriously.
他们认真对待生活中发生的事情。
Andrew Huberman: You know, at the center of our consciousness, a previous guest said, is our ego, the us, the me.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你知道，在我们意识的中心，一位之前的客人说过，是我们的自我、我们、我。
We're all like that to some extent.
在某种程度上我们都是这样的。
Andrew Huberman: But taking oneself seriously as a form of self-respect and building up one's ability to support others and to do important things for other people in our life, our family, and for the world,
安德鲁·休伯曼：但是，认真对待自己是一种自尊，培养一个人支持他人的能力，为我们生活中的其他人、我们的家庭和世界做重要的事情，
Andrew Huberman: is so key, and I feel like taking oneself seriously is the cornerstone of everything I've heard you say today and everything you're doing.
安德鲁·休伯曼：非常关键，我觉得认真对待自己是我今天听到你所说的一切和你所做的一切的基石。
That it's not taking a feeling in a moment seriously.
它没有认真对待某一时刻的感觉。
Andrew Huberman: In fact, sometimes it's about doing that, and sometimes it's about going, "No. I'm going to push that aside, and I'm going to brush my teeth.
安德鲁·休伯曼：事实上，有时是这样做，有时是说，“不。我要把它放在一边，我要去刷牙。
I'm going to lean into that.
我会倾向于这一点。
I'm going to do...
我要做...
not do what I prefer to do in the moment so that I can really show up." But that we need to take ourselves seriously.
不要做我现在更喜欢做的事情，这样我才能真正出现。”但我们需要认真对待自己。
DJ Shipley: Yep.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: You do.
DJ 希普利：是的。
You have to, and I have this big thing I do.
你必须这样做，而我有一件大事要做。
I've been asked to do a lot of motivational speaking lately and a lot of that, and I tell this story about a kid that grows up wanting to be a fireman and how he got inspired by a fireman,
最近我被要求做很多励志演讲，很多这样的演讲，我讲述了一个关于一个孩子长大后想成为一名消防员的故事，以及他如何受到消防员的启发，
DJ Shipley: because that guy was a physical representation of what that kid thought a fireman would be.
DJ Shipley：因为那个家伙代表了那个孩子心目中的消防员。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: Look the part, act the part, he's heroic, he might as well put a red cape on this kid and send him through the door.
DJ Shipley：看起来像那个角色，演那个角色，他很英雄，他还不如给这孩子穿上红色斗篷，然后送他进门。
I mean, that's what it is, but that's you representing everything you think a fireman should be, not just what you say, what you wear, how you speak.
我的意思是，事情就是这样，但你代表了你认为消防员应有的一切，而不仅仅是你所说的、你穿的、你说话的方式。
DJ Shipley: Do everything.
DJ 希普利：做一切。
So for me, anybody who I meet, I'm giving you both barrels right now because I am trying to live
所以对我来说，我遇到的任何人，我现在都给你两桶，因为我正在努力生活
DJ Shipley: the actual life that I think I should be living, that translates all the positive stuff I'm trying to put out.
DJ Shipley：我认为我应该过的实际生活，它体现了我想要表达的所有积极的东西。
DJ Shipley: If you saw me and I was 50 pounds overweight, at a bar, drinking my twelfth beer, talking about mental health, you wouldn't take me serious.
DJ Shipley：如果你看到我超重 50 磅，在酒吧里喝着第十二杯啤酒，谈论心理健康，你就不会认真对待我。
Andrew Huberman: Talking about how you were a Navy SEAL back when.
安德鲁·休伯曼：谈谈你当时是如何成为一名海豹突击队队员的。
DJ Shipley: That does nothing for them.
DJ Shipley：这对他们没有任何帮助。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: It's like, that's not how I identify.
DJ Shipley：这就像，这不是我的认同方式。
Yeah a did that job and, yeah, you think that gives me credibility.
是的，我做了那项工作，是的，你认为这给了我可信度。
I don't care about that a bit.
我一点儿也不关心这个。
That doesn't give me credibility.
这不给我可信度。
DJ Shipley: The way I live my life now, my daily routine gives me the credibility, because no matter who you are, you can adopt that same lifestyle, that same routine.
DJ Shipley：我现在的生活方式，我的日常生活给了我可信度，因为无论你是谁，你都可以采用同样的生活方式，同样的日常生活。
DJ Shipley: You can grab it as a housewife.
DJ Shipley：作为家庭主妇你可以抓住它。
You can wake up early and go out and do a 20-minute walk every single morning before your kids wake up.
您可以早起，每天早上在孩子醒来之前出去散步 20 分钟。
You're just refusing to do it.
你只是拒绝这样做。
I don't know why.
我不知道为什么。
DJ Shipley: But I promise you, if every single person ever watches this, you wake up and do a 20-minute walk in the morning and one after dinner, and you do it for seven days, on the eighth day the world doesn't fall apart.
DJ Shipley：但我向你保证，如果每个人都看过这个，你早上起床后散步 20 分钟，晚饭后散步 1 次，持续 7 天，到第八天世界就不会崩溃。
DJ Shipley: It only gets better the more you do it.
DJ Shipley：做得越多，效果就会越好。
It just will.
它只会。
People just don't want to put in the work.
人们只是不想投入工作。
They want this quick fix.
他们想要这个快速解决方案。
They want Ozempic.
他们想要臭氧。
They want this.
他们想要这个。
Andrew Huberman: Or they're saying, and I hear this, and it's trickier for me because I'm late to the game on kids and family, but mark my words.
安德鲁·休伯曼：或者他们说，我听到了这个，这对我来说比较棘手，因为我在孩子和家庭问题上迟到了，但请记住我的话。
But in your case, you've already had kids.
但就你而言，你已经有了孩子。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: You got a wife.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你有妻子了。
You have a functioning family and a very busy, demanding career, and a previous career that carries with it incredible experiences but also challenges that you're resolving now and you've resolved, and you have a mission in the world.
你有一个正常运转的家庭，有一个非常忙碌、要求很高的职业，之前的职业带来了令人难以置信的经历，但也有你现在正在解决和已经解决的挑战，你在这个世界上有一个使命。
Andrew Huberman: And so a lot of times I'll hear people say, "Well, that's easy for you to say because you don't have kids." And then I'm kind of muted at that moment, and I want to respond and say,
安德鲁·休伯曼：很多时候我会听到人们说，“嗯，这对你来说很容易说，因为你没有孩子。”然后我在那一刻有点沉默，我想回应说，
Andrew Huberman: "Listen, when I was a graduate student, I worked 100 hours a week," but I was in my 20s and I didn't have kids, so I have very little ammunition there.
Andrew Huberman：“听着，当我还是一名研究生时，我每周工作 100 个小时，”但我当时 20 多岁，没有孩子，所以我的弹药很少。
Andrew Huberman: In your case, however, you have kids and you're getting up and you're doing two 20-minute walks, and you're including your family in these practices too.
Andrew Huberman：然而，就你而言，你有孩子，你要起床，进行两次 20 分钟的散步，并且你也让你的家人参与这些练习。
Andrew Huberman: You said your evening walks with your wife are a crucial part of your connection.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你说晚上和妻子一起散步是你们关系的重要组成部分。
DJ Shipley: If anyone is struggling with building that bridge, especially guys transitioning out of the military or a career, you watch it with Tom Brady and everybody else, when they leave the thing they were put on this earth to do, there is a fall from grace that can't be ignored, and most of the time that splits with the wife, right?
DJ Shipley：如果有人正在努力建立这座桥梁，特别是那些从军队或职业生涯中过渡出来的人，你可以和汤姆·布雷迪和其他人一起观看，当他们离开他们在这个地球上要做的事情时，就会有不可忽视的失宠，而且大多数时候都会与妻子分手，对吗？
DJ Shipley: Like the person you are now, she's not used to you being home, and now you don't have anything.
DJ Shipley：就像你现在这样，她不习惯你在家，而现在你什么都没有。
If you are struggling to rebuild that connection with your wife, with your partner, that 20-minute walk has saved my marriage.
如果你正在努力重建与妻子、伴侣的联系，那 20 分钟的步行就拯救了我的婚姻。
I have given it to thousands of people.
我已经把它送给了成千上万的人。
DJ Shipley: That right there, if I could give everybody a gift, the power of that 20-minute walk.
DJ Shipley：就是这样，如果我能给每个人一份礼物，那就是 20 分钟步行的力量。
It's changed my whole life, man.
它改变了我的一生，伙计。
That is the one constant thing I don't compromise on.
这是我不会妥协的一件事。
DJ Shipley: I mean, even to the point where, as dumb as it may be when I'm walking through the Atlanta airport, I don't get on the little conveyor belt.
DJ Shipley：我的意思是，即使当我走过亚特兰大机场时，我也不会走上小传送带，尽管这可能很愚蠢。
I'm not doing that.
我不会那样做。
I'll walk from Terminal E all the way to Terminal A because it's a 20-minute power push.
我将从 E 航站楼一直步行到 A 航站楼，因为需要 20 分钟的动力推动。
DJ Shipley: I do it, and I film it on social media.
DJ Shipley：我这样做，并在社交媒体上拍摄。
I'm getting my steps in no matter what.
无论如何，我都会迈出步伐。
I'm not on my phone.
我不在手机上。
I'm showing you you can find the time.
我告诉你你可以找到时间。
DJ Shipley: Instead of sitting there at Starbucks for 45 minutes waiting on my flight, I'll just walk back and forth.
DJ Shipley：我不会在星巴克等待 45 分钟的航班，而是步行来回。
I just got a 40-minute walk in straight.
我刚刚直走40分钟。
I'm good.
我很好。
So when I get back home, it's 2:30 in the morning, I don't feel guilty I haven't done anything physical today.
所以当我回到家时，已经是凌晨 2:30，我并不因为今天没有做任何体力活动而感到内疚。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: I wake up in the morning, 5:00 AM, and I gear it up and I spin it again, so you can find the time rarely.
DJ Shipley：我早上 5:00 起床，然后将其准备好并再次旋转，因此您很少有时间。
You have to make the time.
你必须腾出时间。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: If you're waiting for it just to pop up and be like, "Oh, here's a free 20-minute block," you're not going to have it, and people just...
DJ Shipley：如果你只是等待它突然出现并说“哦，这是一个免费的 20 分钟时间段”，那么你就不会拥有它，而人们只是......
That's the thing I can't get past.
这是我过不去的事。
They're like, "Oh, you know, I can't wake up that early."
他们会说，“哦，你知道，我不能起那么早。”
DJ Shipley: You have a $1,000 smartphone that does anything.
DJ Shipley：你拥有一部 1,000 美元的智能手机，可以做任何事情。
There's not a question you can ask it it doesn't have the answer to, and there's a clock on it.
你可以问它任何问题，它都没有答案，而且上面有一个时钟。
If you set it, it'll go off.
如果你设置了它，它就会消失。
DJ Shipley: When it goes off, get out of bed.
DJ Shipley：声音响起时，起床。
Like I've been doing it my whole life.
就像我一生都在这样做一样。
I don't understand it.
我不明白。
They just don't want to.
他们只是不想。
They've never felt the power of being in control of the small things.
他们从来没有感受到控制小事情的力量。
DJ Shipley: Why stack up the micro wins?
DJ Shipley：为什么要积累微胜利？
Lay out your clothes the night before.
前一天晚上把衣服放好。
I mean, how many people wake up 20 minutes before they're supposed to leave the door just frantic like, "Where's my black shirt?
我的意思是，有多少人在出门前 20 分钟醒来，疯狂地想：“我的黑衬衫呢？
Where's my black shirt?
我的黑衬衫在哪里？
Ooh, where are my shoes?
哦，我的鞋子在哪里？
Where are my car keys?" Like that's a terrible way to start the day-
我的车钥匙在哪里？”就像这样开始新的一天是一个糟糕的方式——
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: ...
DJ 希普利：...
but you're the one who's doing that.
但你就是这样做的人。
If you just spend 10 minutes the night before, take your shower, lay out the clothes, put them in the logical order you're about to get them dressed in next morning, and go, you'd be surprised how fast you're actually making a cup of coffee.
如果你前一天晚上花 10 分钟，洗个澡，把衣服摆好，按照第二天早上要穿的逻辑顺序摆放好，然后就走，你会惊讶地发现你煮一杯咖啡的速度有多快。
DJ Shipley: You're like, "Man, I did my entire morning routine in less than five minutes." Mm-hmm.
DJ Shipley：你会说，“伙计，我在不到五分钟的时间内就完成了整个早上的例行公事。”嗯嗯。
What do I do with my next 40?
接下来的40年我该做什么？
Whatever you want.
任何你想要的。
Do 10 minutes of meditation.
进行 10 分钟的冥想。
DJ Shipley: Sit there in a dark room and just tell yourself 10 things you're truly grateful for.
DJ Shipley：坐在黑暗的房间里，告诉自己 10 件你真正感激的事情。
Like, "I am so glad I have my wife.
就像，“我很高兴我有我的妻子。
DJ Shipley: I'm so glad I have two healthy kids.
DJ Shipley：我很高兴我有两个健康的孩子。
I'm so glad I have a company.
我很高兴我有一家公司。
I'm so glad I have two arms and two legs.
我很高兴我有两条胳膊和两条腿。
I'm so glad I'm still alive." Cool.
我很高兴我还活着。”凉爽的。
What are you going to do?
你会怎样做？
"I'm going to make the most out of it." Go to work and do that.
“我将充分利用它。”去工作并这样做。
DJ Shipley: People just don't want to make the time because they've never seen the example.
DJ Shipley：人们只是不想抽出时间，因为他们从未见过这个例子。
So a lot of stuff we try to put out is I'm trying to be a physical representation of what I'm trying to mass produce.
所以我们试图推出的很多东西都是我试图成为我想要批量生产的东西的物理代表。
DJ Shipley: Physically strong, mentally resilient, capable, patriotic Americans, that's what I'm trying to do.
DJ Shipley：身体强壮、精神坚韧、有能力、爱国的美国人，这就是我想要做的。
I just want you to have accountability.
我只是希望你有责任感。
DJ Shipley: I've accounted for all my failures, all my successes, and everything else in between, and I'll show them exactly what happens when you do it wrong.
DJ Shipley：我已经解释了我所有的失败、所有的成功以及其间的所有其他事情，我将向他们展示当你做错时会发生什么。
DJ Shipley: And I think that's what a lot of people like the most about it, is I will tell you all my deepest, darkest secrets because you're going to learn a lot more from those than you are about climbing Everest.
DJ Shipley：我认为这是很多人最喜欢的一点，就是我会告诉你我所有最深、最黑暗的秘密，因为你会从这些秘密中学到比攀登珠穆朗玛峰更多的东西。
Like everybody wants to see the picture at the top of the mountain.
就像每个人都想看到山顶的照片一样。
DJ Shipley: They don't want to hear about how many Sherpas you lost on the way to the top.
DJ Shipley：他们不想听你在通往顶峰的路上失去了多少夏尔巴协作。
They don't want to hear about that.
他们不想听到这个。
I do.
我愿意。
I want to hear about the real struggle, like how hard is it to be you?
我想听听真正的挣扎，比如成为你有多难？
Talk me through it.
跟我讲讲吧。
DJ Shipley: I can learn so much from the hardships of people, and just unfortunately, we're in a place now where not too many people are willing to share it.
DJ Shipley：我可以从人们的艰辛中学到很多东西，但不幸的是，我们现在处于一个没有太多人愿意分享的地方。
But, yeah, just trying to help out as many people as possible before I hang this whole thing up and retire.
但是，是的，在我结束这一切并退休之前，我只是想帮助尽可能多的人。
Andrew Huberman: Man, well, you are absolutely helping a ton of people, and today's discussion is just going to amplify that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：伙计，你绝对帮助了很多人，今天的讨论只会放大这一点。
I have to say I'm immensely grateful for you.
我不得不说我非常感谢你。
Andrew Huberman: I felt a kinship with you from the very first time I saw you on Sean's podcast because you mentioned the skateboarding thing, and I think I heard the words that you prefer dogs to people sometimes.
Andrew Huberman：从第一次在 Sean 的播客上看到你时，我就对你产生了一种亲切感，因为你提到了滑板的事情，而且我想我听到了这样的话：有时你更喜欢狗而不是人。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: I think you've embraced people as well.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我认为你也拥抱了人们。
And your love of dogs, that was the hook, and then, we have some common friends in the Teams community that I respect very much, some of whom have been guests, others who are still behind the veil.
你对狗的热爱，这就是吸引人的地方，然后，我们在 Teams 社区中有一些我非常尊重的共同朋友，其中一些人是客人，另一些人仍然是幕后黑手。
Andrew Huberman: But your message is so important.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但是你的信息非常重要。
You have very high standards for yourself, and you meet those standards, and you're constantly trying to meet and exceed those standards.
你对自己有很高的标准，并且你满足了这些标准，并且你不断地努力满足和超越这些标准。
Andrew Huberman: And it's also very clear that you've learned, this is this unconscious genius part about, maybe it's teams, maybe it's just some people in it, but it's clearly very alive in you,
安德鲁·休伯曼：很明显，你已经了解到，这就是无意识的天才部分，也许是团队，也许只是其中的一些人，但它显然在你身上非常活跃，
Andrew Huberman: that you learn to use physical decisions, real world, actionable, implementable decisions
Andrew Huberman：你学会使用物理决策、现实世界、可操作、可实施的决策
Andrew Huberman: to create internal change so that you can engage with the world in more functional and more meaningful ways.
Andrew Huberman：创造内部变革，以便您能够以更实用、更有意义的方式与世界互动。
It's like the waking up early thing.
这就像早起的事情。
Andrew Huberman: I confess I've been a little weak on the waking up early thing, prioritizing sleep, and this kind of thing.
Andrew Huberman：我承认我在早起、优先睡眠等方面有点软弱。
And there's also a strong antidepressant effect of waking up early that I've noticed, and that exists in the literature.
我注意到早起也有很强的抗抑郁作用，这在文献中也有记载。
DJ Shipley: Mm-hmm.
DJ 希普利：嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman: So I'm going to get back to that.
Andrew Huberman：所以我要回到这个话题。
I'm definitely going to do the GBRS program.
我肯定会参加 GBRS 计划。
I'm hoping other people will as well.
我希望其他人也能这样做。
Again, it's not a promotional for that.
再说一次，这不是促销。
Andrew Huberman: I think how amazing would it be if, as a country, people started to really take their physical body seriously, not expect some package to arrive on their doorstep if they were to take that pill or that thing, and suddenly they were going to be healthy?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我想，如果作为一个国家，人们开始真正认真对待自己的身体，而不是指望服用那种药片或那种东西会收到一些包裹，然后突然间他们就会变得健康，那该有多神奇？
Andrew Huberman: And instead, to really just lean into these 20-minute walks, sunlight, the GBRS program sounds like an awesome way to get all around fitness and to maintain that for a lifetime.
Andrew Huberman：相反，要真正依靠这些 20 分钟的步行、阳光，GBRS 计划听起来是一种全面健身并终生保持健身的好方法。
I just want to thank you for everything you're doing.
我只想感谢你所做的一切。
Andrew Huberman: You've definitely opened up on an emotional level to the world today and elsewhere.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你在情感层面上确实向当今世界和其他地方敞开了心扉。
You've opened up your protocols.
你已经开放了你的协议。
Andrew Huberman: You've made it very clear that you're human, that you're not perfect, and that despite all that, you're still going to keep striving, striving, striving.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你已经非常清楚地表明你是人类，你并不完美，尽管如此，你仍然会继续努力，努力，努力。
Andrew Huberman: It's a magnificent example at every level.
Andrew Huberman：这在各个层面都是一个出色的例子。
So I'm really, really grateful for coming out here.
所以我真的非常非常感谢来到这里。
DJ Shipley: I appreciate that.
DJ 希普利：我很欣赏这一点。
DJ Shipley: I got something I want to give you.
DJ Shipley：我有东西想给你。
Andrew Huberman: For me?
安德鲁·休伯曼：对我来说？
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: Slide you those.
DJ Shipley：给你滑那些。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
DJ Shipley: So I'm going to tell you the backstory real quick.
DJ Shipley：所以我要快速告诉你背景故事。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: So we started doing in-house embroidery, and we wanted to do an American flag hat, but we sit down with Tyler Milliken.
DJ Shipley：所以我们开始做内部刺绣，我们想做一顶美国国旗帽子，但我们和泰勒·米利肯坐在一起。
DJ Shipley: He runs all our stuff, and we've got an apprentice, Sophia, that does all our embroidery in-house, six-head embroidery machine, and we wanted to do an American flag hat.
DJ Shipley：他负责我们所有的工作，我们有一个学徒 Sophia，她负责我们所有的内部刺绣，六头刺绣机，我们想做一顶美国国旗帽子。
And I got so...
而我却如此...
I'm going to try not to get upset.
我会努力不让自己难过。
DJ Shipley: I get so sick of people ordering American flag patches off Amazon from China and border stitching them on hats and letting that be a patriotic symbol.
DJ Shipley：我厌倦了人们从中国亚马逊订购美国国旗补丁，然后将它们缝在帽子上，并让它成为爱国的象征。
It drives-
它驱动——
Andrew Huberman: Is that how it's typically done?
Andrew Huberman：通常都是这样做的吗？
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
I mean, you can go to Amazon.
我的意思是，你可以去亚马逊。
I can buy 500 of those for-
我可以买 500 个——
Andrew Huberman: And those are made in China?
Andrew Huberman：那些是中国制造的？
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Got it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：明白了。
DJ Shipley: And I can border stitch them on there.
DJ Shipley：我可以把它们缝在那里。
I can hot glue them on there.
我可以将它们热粘在那里。
And we've got this embroidery machine, and Tyler's a wizard with just embroidery files and everything else, and we were like, "Let's make the American flag hat.
我们有这台刺绣机，泰勒是个巫师，只有刺绣文件和其他所有东西，我们就像，“让我们制作美国国旗帽子。
It's not going to be a border stitch.
它不会是边界针迹。
It's not going to be a patch we sew on this thing.
这不会是我们在这东西上缝的补丁。
DJ Shipley: Like, what's it going to be?" And he looked right at me, and he goes, "I can make you the hat, but we are never going to make money on it." And I was like, "I'm not about making money."
DJ Shipley：比如说，会是什么？”他直视着我，说道：“我可以给你做帽子，但我们永远不会靠它赚钱。”我当时想，“我不是为了赚钱。”
DJ Shipley: And he's like, "Well, I can't mass produce them either." I was like, "The hat and the story I'm going to tell is not meant for mass production."
DJ Shipley：他说，“好吧，我也无法大规模生产它们。”我当时想，“我要讲的帽子和故事不适合大规模生产。”
DJ Shipley: So when he launched those hats, that hat is almost 24,000 individual stitches.
DJ Shipley：所以当他推出这些帽子时，那顶帽子几乎有 24,000 针。
It takes 60 minutes just to make the flag.
仅制作一面旗帜就需要 60 分钟。
DJ Shipley: The quality control that goes inside that, if a single thread is pulled, rolled, anything, we cancel it.
DJ Shipley：内部的质量控制，如果一根线被拉动，卷起，任何东西，我们都会取消它。
We toss it.
我们把它扔掉。
DJ Shipley: But that hat, and I say it's a-
DJ Shipley：但是那顶帽子，我说它是-
Andrew Huberman: Oh, it's actually stitched into the back.
Andrew Huberman：哦，它实际上是缝在后面的。
I see what you're saying.
我明白你在说什么。
It's not a patch stitched onto a hat.
它不是缝在帽子上的补丁。
It is the hat.
这是帽子。
DJ Shipley: Yeah.
DJ 希普利：是的。
DJ Shipley: No.
DJ 希普利：不。
DJ Shipley: It is.
DJ 希普利：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
DJ Shipley: And-
DJ 希普利：还有-
Andrew Huberman: Got it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：明白了。
DJ Shipley: You know, when we first dropped those things, I told everybody.
DJ Shipley：你知道，当我们第一次放弃这些东西时，我告诉了所有人。
I was like, "This hat is for the people that get emotional when they hear the national anthem.
我当时想，“这顶帽子是为那些听到国歌时情绪激动的人准备的。
DJ Shipley: This hat is for the people whose children say the Pledge of Allegiance with hand over heart, that go to the baseball games, they have a visceral response when they hear the national anthem played.
DJ Shipley：这顶帽子是为那些孩子们全心全意地宣读效忠誓言、去看棒球比赛的人而设计的，当他们听到国歌响起时，他们会做出本能的反应。
They're not kneeling at football games.
他们不会在足球比赛中下跪。
They're not playing all the left side and right side.
他们并没有打所有的左侧和右侧。
DJ Shipley: They are patriotic Americans." And I told him, "If you are going to wear this hat and let anything poisonous come out of your mouth while you're wearing that hat, I will fly there, and I'll snatch it off your head.
DJ Shipley：他们是爱国的美国人。”我告诉他，“如果你要戴上这顶帽子，并在戴上那顶帽子时让任何有毒的东西从你嘴里流出来，我会飞到那里，把它从你的头上夺下来。
DJ Shipley: Everything you're going to do needs to represent what you think the essence of America is.
DJ Shipley：你要做的每一件事都需要代表你认为的美国本质。
DJ Shipley: Everything that flows out of your mouth while you're wearing that hat better be done with dignity and respect because a lot of brave men and women have sacrificed everything just for that little piece of cloth." So we don't mass produce them.
DJ 希普利：当你戴着那顶帽子时，从你嘴里流出的一切都最好带着尊严和尊重来完成，因为很多勇敢的男人和女人为了那一小块布牺牲了一切。”所以我们不会批量生产它们。
We drop them a couple times a year.
我们每年都会丢掉它们几次。
DJ Shipley: We'll do like a Be A Pro drop couple different times, and they fly like wildfire.
DJ Shipley：我们会像 Be A Pro 那样做几次不同的事情，他们会像野火一样飞翔。
And it's so cool to see because the people that know, they know.
看到这真是太酷了，因为知道的人，他们都知道。
DJ Shipley: Like, we have done so much for that flag, and I hate seeing it being misrepresented in any way, shape, or form.
DJ Shipley：就像，我们为这面旗帜做了很多事情，我讨厌看到它以任何方式、形状或形式被歪曲。
You do it in a beautiful light.
你在美丽的光线下做这件事。
I would love for you to have those.
我希望你能拥有这些。
DJ Shipley: So those came from the boys at GBRS, and I know that when you wear them, you'll preach the gospel and you'll represent the American people in a beautiful way, but if you don't, I will fly out here, and I'll snatch them off your head like I will anybody else.
DJ Shipley：这些来自 GBRS 的男孩们，我知道当你戴上它们时，你会传播福音，你会以一种美丽的方式代表美国人民，但如果你不这样做，我会飞到这里，我会把它们从你头上夺走，就像我抢其他人一样。
But-
但是——
Andrew Huberman: I believe you.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我相信你。
DJ Shipley: But those things, those represent, we've got a bunch of patriots and a bunch of veterans that work inside with us, so every time we do that drop, the entire company, when we're 40-something people strong now, and when that hat comes out,
DJ Shipley：但是那些东西，那些代表着，我们有一群爱国者和一群退伍军人在我们内部工作，所以每次我们这样做时，整个公司，当我们现在有 40 多岁的人时，当那顶帽子出现时，
DJ Shipley: everybody can feel it.
DJ Shipley：每个人都能感觉到。
Like beating the war drum on just being a good patriot, and I know I isolate it for just Americans, but the overall message is I want everyone to be a patriot.
就像敲响战鼓，让自己成为一名优秀的爱国者一样，我知道我只是将其孤立于美国人，但总体信息是我希望每个人都成为爱国者。
DJ Shipley: Everyone in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, France, if you have ownership and you are patriotic of where you come from, you represent it so much better than anyone else.
DJ Shipley：英国、澳大利亚、新西兰、加拿大、法国的每个人，如果你拥有所有权并且你爱国你的家乡，那么你比其他任何人都更好地代表它。
DJ Shipley: If I've never met a person from Australia, and I go there and I meet one person, it's a positive experience, for the rest of my days, I'll talk about that experience.
DJ Shipley：如果我从未见过来自澳大利亚的人，但我去那里遇到了一个人，这是一次积极的经历，在我余下的日子里，我会谈论这段经历。
Andrew Huberman: Mm-hmm.
安德鲁·休伯曼：嗯嗯。
DJ Shipley: So when I wear that hat, I try to represent what I want the American people to be like.
DJ Shipley：所以当我戴上那顶帽子时，我试图代表我希望美国人民是什么样子。
So when somebody meets me from, you know, Zimbabwe, and I'm wearing that hat, that interaction is going to be the best I can possibly be because of the weight of that thing sitting on my head.
因此，当有人遇见我时，你知道，津巴布韦，而我戴着那顶帽子，这种互动将是我所能做到的最好的，因为那东西坐在我头上的重量。
DJ Shipley: Yeah, when I came out here, you know, I was telling the boys, like, "I've got to bring Andrew a hat." And they spun them up real quick.
DJ Shipley：是的，当我来到这里时，你知道，我告诉男孩们，“我必须给安德鲁带一顶帽子。”他们很快就把它们旋转起来。
We don't drop those things till November, but I wanted you to have the first one.
直到十一月我们才会放弃这些东西，但我希望你拥有第一个。
So thank you for everything, and thanks for having me on, man.
所以谢谢你所做的一切，也谢谢你邀请我，伙计。
Andrew Huberman: Oh, man.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，伙计。
Thank you.
谢谢。
I'm honored.
我很荣幸。
I will wear it, and I will meet, and I will strive to exceed the standard that you describe, and I fully believe that if I don't, you'll come out here and kick my ass.
我会穿它，我会见面，我会努力超越你所描述的标准，我完全相信，如果我不这样做，你就会出来踢我的屁股。
DJ Shipley: Humbled.
DJ 希普利：谦卑。
DJ Shipley: I will.
DJ 希普利：我会的。
Andrew Huberman: That's part of the deal.
Andrew Huberman：这是协议的一部分。
We can also provide a link to where you guys make these.
我们还可以提供一个链接，指向你们制作这些的地方。
Andrew Huberman: And, yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Again, I just really want to thank you.
再次，我真的很想感谢你。
It's clear that quality and standards is in your DNA, and it's in, more importantly, it's in everything you do, right down to the hats.
很明显，质量和标准存在于您的 DNA 中，更重要的是，它存在于您所做的每一件事中，甚至从头至尾。
Andrew Huberman: So, thank you so much, DJ.
Andrew Huberman：非常感谢你，DJ。
Come back again.
再回来吧。
DJ Shipley: I will.
DJ 希普利：我会的。
Thank you so much.
太感谢了。
Andrew Huberman: Thank you.
安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢。
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with DJ Shipley.
感谢您参加今天与 DJ Shipley 的讨论。
To find links to his website as well as the links to the fitness program that we described, please see the show note captions.
要查找他的网站的链接以及我们描述的健身计划的链接，请参阅节目注释标题。
Andrew Huberman: If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
Andrew Huberman：如果您正在学习或喜欢这个播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请通过单击 Spotify 和 Apple 上的关注按钮来关注播客。
Andrew Huberman: And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review, and you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
Andrew Huberman：在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们留下五星级的评论，现在您可以在 Spotify 和 Apple 上给我们留下评论。
Andrew Huberman: Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
Andrew Huberman：另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
Andrew Huberman: If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast, or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
Andrew Huberman：如果您对我有疑问或对播客有意见，或者您希望我在 Huberman Lab 播客中考虑嘉宾或主题，请将这些内容放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
Andrew Huberman: I do read all the comments.
Andrew Huberman：我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body."
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。
Andrew Huberman: This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience.
Andrew Huberman：这本书是我花了五年多时间编写的，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验。
Andrew Huberman: And it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation.
Andrew Huberman：它涵盖了从睡眠到锻炼再到压力控制的所有协议，以及与注意力和动机相关的协议。
And of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
当然，我还为所包含的协议提供了科学依据。
Andrew Huberman: The book is now available by pre-sale at protocolsbook.com.
Andrew Huberman：这本书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There, you can find links to various vendors.
在那里，您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Andrew Huberman: Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." And if you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all social media platforms, so that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
安德鲁·休伯曼：同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 hubermanlab，包括 Instagram、X、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
Andrew Huberman: And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast.
Andrew Huberman：在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与 Huberman 实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与 Huberman 实验室播客上的信息不同。
Again, it's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
再说一遍，所有社交媒体平台上都是 hubermanlab。
Andrew Huberman: And if you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as what we call protocols in the form of one to three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep,
Andrew Huberman：如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及我们所说的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议，涵盖从如何优化睡眠、
Andrew Huberman: how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
Andrew Huberman：如何优化多巴胺，故意冷暴露。
We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training.
我们有一个基本的健身方案，涵盖心血管训练和阻力训练。
All of that is available completely zero cost.
所有这些都是完全零成本可用的。
Andrew Huberman: You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to newsletter, and enter your email.
Andrew Huberman：您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的菜单选项卡，向下滚动到时事通讯，然后输入您的电子邮件即可。
And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Andrew Huberman: Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with DJ Shipley.
Andrew Huberman：再次感谢您参加今天与 DJ Shipley 的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。