Ido Portal: The Science & Practice of Movement
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
Today my guest is Ido Portal.
今天我的嘉宾是 Ido Portal。
Ido Portal is somebody who truly defies formal definition.
Ido Portal 是一个真正挑战正式定义的人。
He is, however, accredited by many to be the world expert in all things movement.
然而，他被许多人认可为万物运动的世界专家。
Movement is one of the more fascinating and important aspects of our nervous system.
运动是我们神经系统中最迷人和最重要的方面之一。
In fact, it was the great Nobel Prize winner Sherrington that said, "Movement is the final common path." And what he was referring to is the fact that so much of our nervous system is dedicated to movement, and, in particular, that the human nervous system can generate the greatest variety of forms of movement.
事实上，伟大的诺贝尔奖获得者谢林顿说过，“运动是最后的共同道路”。他指的是这样一个事实，即我们的神经系统的大部分都致力于运动，特别是人类神经系统可以产生最多种形式的运动。
We can run, we can jump, we can crawl, we can move at different speeds.
我们可以跑，我们可以跳，我们可以爬，我们可以以不同的速度移动。
Far more variation in movement and different types and speeds of movement than any other animal in the animal kingdom can perform.
运动的变化以及运动的不同类型和速度比动物王国中的任何其他动物都要多得多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
My interest in bringing Ido Portal onto this podcast stemmed from a discussion about just that, about Sherrington and the enormous range of movements that humans can engage in.
我对将 Ido Portal 引入这个播客的兴趣源于对谢林顿以及人类可以参与的各种运动的讨论。
Ido is both a practitioner and an intellectual.
伊多既是实践者，又是知识分子。
We all know what a practitioner is, it's somebody who walks the walk, who actually performs the thing that they are knowledgeable about.
我们都知道什么是实践者，是一个言出必行、实际做他们所了解的事情的人。
And indeed, Ido has studied capoeira, a number of other martial arts, dance, gymnastics, various forms of sport.
事实上，伊多学习了卡波耶拉、许多其他武术、舞蹈、体操和各种形式的运动。
He's trained top athletes like Conor McGregor, and he has many, many other credits to his name as a practitioner and teacher.
他训练过像康纳·麦格雷戈这样的顶级运动员，作为实践者和老师，他还有很多很多其他的功劳。
However, he is also a true intellectual of movement.
然而，他也是一位真正的运动知识分子。
I define an intellectual as somebody who can both think about and talk about a subject at multiple levels of granularity.
我将知识分子定义为能够在多个粒度级别上思考和谈论某个主题的人。
That is with exquisite detail and with exquisite simplicity, depending on their audience and depending on the topic at hand.
这是精致的细节和精致的简单，取决于他们的受众和手头的主题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And as you'll soon hear from my discussion with Ido, he is both a practitioner and a true intellectual of all things movement.
正如您很快就会从我与 Ido 的讨论中听到的那样，他既是万物运动的实践者，也是真正的知识分子。
Today, through our discussion, you will learn how the nervous system generates movement, and the different forms of movement, the different speeds of movement.
今天，通过我们的讨论，您将了解神经系统如何产生运动，以及不同的运动形式、不同的运动速度。
You're also going to get an incredible insight through Ido's mind and eyes of how movement can serve us in the various contexts of life, not just in sport, not just in exercise, but in every aspect of our lives.
您还将通过伊多的思想和眼睛获得令人难以置信的洞察力，了解运动如何在生活的各个方面为我们服务，不仅仅是在运动中，不仅仅是在锻炼中，而是在我们生活的各个方面。
From the time we get up in the morning until the time we go to sleep at night, how we engage with others, how we engage with ourselves, indeed, how movement even informs relationships of different kinds.
从我们早上起床到晚上睡觉，我们如何与他人交往，如何与自己交往，事实上，运动甚至如何影响不同类型的关系。
I found our discussion to be one of the most enlightening and interesting discussions that I've ever had.
我发现我们的讨论是我所经历过的最有启发性和最有趣的讨论之一。
Not just about movement, but about the nervous system.
不仅与运动有关，还与神经系统有关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I can assure you that by the end of this episode, you will not only learn a tremendous amount about movement through the eyes and mind of the one and only Ido Portal, but you also will learn a tremendous amount of neuroscience.
我可以向你保证，在这一集结束时，你不仅会通过唯一的 Ido Portal 的眼睛和思想学到大量关于运动的知识，而且你还将学到大量的神经科学知识。
About how the cells, and circuits, and hormones, and neurotransmitters of your body assist in creating the various forms of movement that you can generate, that you're trying to learn and generate, and that perhaps you should think about trying to learn and generate.
关于你身体的细胞、回路、激素和神经递质如何协助创造你可以产生、你正在尝试学习和产生的各种形式的运动，也许你应该考虑尝试学习和产生。
And indeed, you'll learn some protocols and tools for how to do that.
事实上，您将学习一些如何做到这一点的协议和工具。
In science, we have a phrase ...
在科学上，我们有一个短语...
Actually, it's a title that's reserved for only the rarest of individuals.
事实上，这是一个只为最稀有的人保留的头衔。
We say that somebody is an N-of-1, meaning a sample size of one.
我们说某人是 N-of-1，意思是样本量为 1。
And as you'll soon learn, Ido Portal is truly an N-of-1.
您很快就会了解到，Ido Portal 确实是 N-of-1。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
And now for my discussion with Ido Portal.
现在我与 Ido Portal 进行讨论。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Ido, thank you for coming here today.
伊多，谢谢你今天来到这里。
I've been looking forward to sitting down with you to talk for a very long time.
我长期以来一直期待着与您坐下来交谈。
I was first exposed to your work from my post or a podcast, I believe, of ...
我第一次接触到你的作品是通过我的帖子或播客，我相信是......
You had a group of people walking down handrails, literally the handrails along stairwells, and as a, I don't want to say former skateboarder — once a skateboarder, always a skateboarder.
一群人沿着扶手走，实际上是沿着楼梯间的扶手，作为一个，我不想说前滑板运动员 - 曾经是滑板运动员，永远是滑板运动员。
As a skateboarder, handrails have a particular meaning.
作为一名滑板手，扶手有着特殊的意义。
But I was really struck by, first of all, the incredible range of skill that people had, and yet their willingness to do this.
但令我震惊的是，首先，人们拥有令人难以置信的广泛技能，而且他们愿意这样做。
I think of handrails, and walking on handrails or skateboarding on handrails as a potential hazard, and yet some of the incredible proficiency that some of the people there, including yourself, had.
我认为扶手，在扶手上行走或在扶手上滑板是一种潜在的危险，但那里的一些人，包括你自己，都拥有令人难以置信的熟练程度。
So like many people, I was drawn to your practice and your work initially through a wide-eyed, "Wow, they're doing some incredible stuff on natural objects," much as skateboarders or parkour folks do.
所以像很多人一样，我最初被你的实践和作品所吸引，是因为我睁大了眼睛，“哇，他们在自然物体上做了一些令人难以置信的事情”，就像滑板运动员或跑酷爱好者所做的那样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But over the years, we've been in communication, and I've come to realize that you're a true intellectual of the topic of movement.
但多年来，我们一直在沟通，我逐渐意识到您是运动主题的真正知识分子。
And I define an intellectual as somebody who can understand a topic at multiple levels of granularity, detailed general specific connections, et cetera.
我将知识分子定义为能够在多个粒度级别、详细的一般特定联系等方面理解某个主题的人。
So to start off, could you share with us your conception of this idea of movement?
首先，您能与我们分享一下您对这种运动理念的看法吗？
Obviously, movement involves translation through space, but when you talk about a movement practice, what are you really thinking about?
显然，运动涉及到空间的平移，但是当你谈论运动练习时，你真正想到的是什么？
What are we talking about when we talk about a movement practice?
当我们谈论动作练习时我们在谈论什么？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
It's a big question.
这是一个大问题。
I somehow left the definition, the very tight definition of it, out for myself, because I felt it was starting to constrict me and be around me, and I let the practice itself really define it.
我不知何故把它的定义，非常严格的定义，留给了自己，因为我觉得它开始限制我并围绕着我，而我让实践本身真正定义它。
But I think part of our sense of everything is actually a sense of movement, and then the stillness in the background of that.
但我认为我们对一切事物的感觉的一部分实际上是一种运动感，然后是运动背景中的静止感。
So for me, this is the entity that I refer to as movement, and using that perspective for self-evolution, development.
所以对我来说，这就是我所说的运动实体，并利用这种视角进行自我进化、发展。
Of course, the physical side, but also movement of emotions, movement of thoughts, and any other movement streams.
当然，身体方面，还包括情绪的运动、思想的运动以及任何其他运动流。
And by switching these layers, and examining it from different places, you get a better and better sense of it.
通过切换这些层，并从不同的地方检查它，你会对它有越来越好的认识。
I think the visuals nowadays, and media are what defines for people, in the beginning, things.
我认为现在的视觉效果和媒体最初定义了人们和事物。
And then little by little, with experience, they can dive deeper, which is good.
然后随着经验的积累，他们可以逐渐深入，这很好。
There is some aspect, sexy aspect or not so sexy aspect, and then you pull on it, and you start to examine and dive deeper, and then you receive the gift of finding out more.
有一些方面，性感的方面或不那么性感的方面，然后你拉动它，你开始检查并深入研究，然后你会收到发现更多的礼物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I heard you say once that we are not just a brain with a body, but we are a body with a brain, which I absolutely love, because as a student and a researcher of the nervous system, I never think about the brain as its own isolated thing.
我听你说过一次，我们不仅仅是一个有身体的大脑，而且我们是一个有大脑的身体，我非常喜欢这一点，因为作为一名学生和神经系统的研究者，我从不认为大脑是一个独立的东西。
I think about the nervous system, and the fact that the brain and the spinal cord are connected to the body and the body is connected to the brain.
我想到了神经系统，大脑和脊髓与身体相连，而身体又与大脑相连。
In every direction everything truly is connected at the physical level, physiological level.
在每个方向上，一切都在物理层面、生理层面上真正地相互联系。
Could you just share for a moment how you think about this body-brain relationship, in terms of ...
您能简单分享一下您对这种身体与大脑关系的看法吗？
You mentioned movement of emotions, movement of the body, that you can't really separate the two.
你提到情绪的运动、身体的运动，你无法真正将两者分开。
And for the typical person who's listening to this, they might not immediately understand what that means.
对于普通人来说，他们可能不会立即理解这意味着什么。
Maybe it's something that has to be experienced, but when we think about the body and the brain, and the whole thing working as one cohesive whole, what does that mean to you?
也许这是必须经历的事情，但是当我们想到身体和大脑，以及整个事情作为一个有凝聚力的整体运作时，这对你意味着什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or put simply, when you do a movement practice, what are you focusing on?
或者简单地说，当你练习动作时，你关注的是什么？
Are you focusing on the movement of your limbs?
你的注意力集中在四肢的运动上吗？
I have to imagine that's true, but are you also focusing on how that makes you feel or how your feelings make you move?
我必须想象这是真的，但你是否也在关注这给你带来的感受，或者你的感受如何让你感动？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Okay.
好的。
Okay, so some thoughts.
好吧，有一些想法。
I will try not to answer any of your questions during this interview, but I will definitely give some thoughts, and then we can play with it.
在这次采访中我会尽量不回答你们的任何问题，但我肯定会给出一些想法，然后我们就可以一起玩了。
I think these definitions and, in general, the limitation of words ends up creating some kind of a corruptive process.
我认为这些定义以及一般而言的词语限制最终会造成某种腐败过程。
Words corrupt us and corrupt our understanding.
言语腐蚀我们，腐蚀我们的理解。
So I think the brain-body, this Cartesian state of mind and thinking brought a lot of good, but also brought a lot of problems.
所以我觉得大脑身体一体，这种笛卡尔的心态和思维带来了很多好处，但也带来了很多问题。
And movement, for me, is the entity that ties everything together.
对我来说，运动是将一切联系在一起的实体。
It's the magic, it's the thoughts anima, it's when the coin spins and you see both sides appear at the same time.
这是魔法，这是思想阿尼玛，这是当硬币旋转时你会看到两面同时出现。
It's a beautiful analogy from a friend of mine, Dr. Rasmus Ölme.
这是我的朋友 Rasmus Ölme 博士提出的一个美丽的比喻。
So the mind and body are one of those pairs, and I call it the movement-body-mind system.
所以思想和身体是其中一对，我称之为运动-身体-思想系统。
So when it's integrated, it's in motion.
因此，当它集成时，它就处于运动状态。
There is also a stillness that appears there, of course, without it there can be no motion.
当然，那里也出现了一种静止，没有它就不可能有运动。
But maybe that is a very good way to start to think of things.
但也许这是开始思考问题的一个很好的方式。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
There is no really pure mental processes, cognitive processes.
不存在真正纯粹的心理过程、认知过程。
There is no pure physical processes.
不存在纯粹的物理过程。
Everything touches everything, there is a wholeness, and that wholeness is in motion.
一切都触及一切，有一个整体，而这个整体是在运动的。
Yeah, the movement practice takes these beats and examines them.
是的，运动练习采用这些节拍并检查它们。
And here is a pragmatic thing, the scientist, the cerebral thinking about movement.
这是一个务实的事情，科学家，对运动的大脑思考。
This is important.
这很重要。
The emotional side, coloring, feeling the colors and the textures of motion.
情感方面，色彩，感觉颜色和运动的纹理。
A lot of people who are involved with the movement practice never end up feeling emotions, really focusing on how it makes you feel or how it feels itself.
许多参与运动练习的人永远不会感受到情绪，真正关注的是它给你带来的感受或它本身的感受。
And then the actual movement, the action.
然后是实际的动作、行动。
So it's action, emotion, and thought.
所以它是行动、情感和思想。
And those are three streams of movement, and they interlace together into this braided experience, and whole experience.
这就是三个运动流，它们交织在一起形成这种编织的体验和整个体验。
And I try to bring all these aspects into my practice and the way that I live my life.
我尝试将所有这些方面融入到我的实践和生活方式中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think most people who embark on a movement practice will first want to know which movements to do.
我想大多数开始练习动作的人首先会想知道该做哪些动作。
Squats, planks, push-ups, pirouettes, pick your movement, it could be any movement.
深蹲、平板支撑、俯卧撑、旋转，选择你的动作，可以是任何动作。
Are there any sort of just basic entry points that you believe everybody should walk through as they embrace a movement practice the first time, and maybe even every time they do a movement practice?
您认为每个人在第一次进行动作练习时，甚至每次进行动作练习时，都应该经历一些基本的切入点吗？
I mean, earlier today, I had the great privilege of being guided through a long series of movement practices, and yet the first practice we did involved, at first anyway, stillness, not movement.
我的意思是，今天早些时候，我有幸在指导下进行了一系列的运动练习，但我们所做的第一次练习，无论如何，一开始都是静止的，而不是运动。
So if you would, could you inform us how people should think about approaching a movement practice?
那么，如果您愿意，您能否告诉我们人们应该如何考虑进行运动练习？
What is the first layer of any good movement practice?
任何好的运动练习的第一层是什么？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
So you touch the word movements, and it's important for me to separate it from the word Movement with a capital M.
所以当你接触到“movements”这个词时，对我来说，用大写的“M”将它与“Movementation”这个词分开是很重要的。
Movements are the containers, and Movement is the content, and the content cannot be carried in any way without containers.
运动是容器，运动是内容，没有容器就无法承载内容。
So the first entry point is to choose containers, and then the second thing, to make sure, is to put specific content into those containers and then enjoy them.
所以第一个切入点是选择容器，然后第二件事就是确保将特定内容放入这些容器中，然后享受它们。
I tell people that it's like a cup of water, and you're being handed that cup of water.
我告诉人们，这就像一杯水，而你正在被递给你那杯水。
And nowadays, very often people will start to chew on the cup instead of drinking the water, making it yours, discard the cup.
如今，人们常常开始咀嚼杯子而不是喝水，把水变成你的，扔掉杯子。
And then maybe later, you want to have bone broth or soup, so you use a different container, a bowl.
也许稍后，你想要骨头汤或汤，所以你使用不同的容器，一个碗。
So a movement practice, to start, can start from anywhere.
因此，运动练习可以从任何地方开始。
It's a rhizome, it's an open system, it has no center, it's decentralized, and it can be approached from anywhere.
它是一个根茎，它是一个开放的系统，它没有中心，它是分散的，并且可以从任何地方接近它。
And that's its magic, and that's the benefit of it.
这就是它的魔力，这就是它的好处。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Some people find the body a good entry point.
有些人发现身体是一个很好的切入点。
Some people don't even enter from the body, sometimes you can enter from other perspectives.
有的人甚至不从身体进入，有时你可以从其他角度进入。
And then inside the body, for example, where should we enter if we decided to take the body approach?
然后在身体内部，例如，如果我们决定采用身体方法，我们应该进入哪里？
The spine can be a nice decision, but some will choose just the pelvis.
脊柱可能是一个不错的选择，但有些人会只选择骨盆。
Any one of those points are valid, and then playfulness can be an entry point and attribute.
其中任何一点都是有效的，那么好玩性就可以作为切入点和属性。
And this is so open.
这是如此开放。
So I don't want to limit people and limit their minds in the way that they engage with the practice, but I also want to encourage the self-inquiry, "Am I doing movements practice or am I doing a Movement practice?"
所以我不想限制人们参与练习的方式，限制他们的思想，但我也想鼓励自我探究，“我是在做动作练习还是在做动作练习？”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So could you help me distinguish the two a little bit further?
那么你能帮我进一步区分两者吗？
I think I understand the difference between the noun versus the verbs.
我想我理解名词与动词之间的区别。
And in some ways here, we are dealing with the challenge of the barriers that language present to something that's physical.
在某种程度上，我们正在应对语言对物理事物带来的障碍的挑战。
I mean, indeed, there may not be a ...
我的意思是，确实，可能没有...
I have to assume there is no perfect verbal language for movement, there are certain movements that defy language.
我必须假设不存在完美的动作语言，有些动作是违背语言的。
I could say somebody jumped at a particular trajectory, at a particular speed, and moved this limb and that limb, but by fractionating it, something is most definitely lost.
我可以说有人以特定的轨迹、特定的速度跳跃，并移动这个肢体和那个肢体，但通过将其分解，肯定会丢失一些东西。
So if someone wanted to, let's say, get in better touch with their "body," in quotes, in order to explore the infinite space that is movement, how might they begin to approach that?
因此，如果有人想要更好地接触他们的“身体”（用引号引起来），以便探索运动的无限空间，他们如何开始接近这一目标？
Does he begin with an awareness, with practice, or both?
他是从意识开始，还是从练习开始，还是两者兼而有之？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
It begins with education, that's probably the most stable point of entry.
它从教育开始，这可能是最稳定的切入点。
Awareness to something as a concept, that it is a concept, that there is a validity or ...
意识到某事物作为一个概念，它是一个概念，有一个有效性或......
Because sometimes people look for that, to looking at this entity, this open entity.
因为有时人们会寻找这个实体，这个开放的实体。
And that's part of the reason why answering questions is not something I can do or even attempt to do.
这就是为什么回答问题不是我可以做或什至尝试做的事情的部分原因。
I believe in the power of the noncomplete process, like making this table, but leaving something undone, not perfecting the product.
我相信不完整过程的力量，就像制作这张桌子，但留下一些未完成的东西，而不是完善产品。
Why?
为什么？
Because it offers some kind of a dynamic nature of evolution that naturally unravels from it.
因为它提供了某种进化的动态本质，可以自然地从中揭示出来。
Almost like ...
几乎就像...
Sometimes I count reps and I'll only count to nine, because it tends to leave people in the count, and it keeps going instead of giving them the 10.
有时我数重复次数，但只会数到九，因为这往往会让人们继续数下去，而不是给他们数十。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Everyone wants to end on 10.
每个人都希望在10点结束。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yeah, which is because of the decimal system, et cetera.
是的，这是因为十进制系统等等。
So all kinds of things like that is also important with the movement idea, is to discuss, to examine, to look, to taste, to try, but then also not to try to capture, because if you ...
因此，诸如此类的各种事情对于运动理念也很重要，就是讨论、检查、观察、品尝、尝试，但也不要试图捕捉，因为如果你……
Like the invisible loop of Hoffstadt, if you look at it too closely, it's gone.
就像霍夫施塔特的隐形环一样，如果你看得太近，它就消失了。
But if you look away, it functions and exists just like us, very powerfully, and obviously gives us the experiences that we have.
但如果你把目光移开，它的功能和存在就像我们一样，非常强大，并且显然给了我们我们所拥有的经验。
So when people enter movement practice, it is about education, bringing some awareness to the fact that they are living in a body, that they are living in motion, that their mind is a type of movement, that their life is a type of movement.
因此，当人们进入运动实践时，它是关于教育的，让人们意识到他们生活在一个身体中，他们生活在运动中，他们的思想是一种运动，他们的生活是一种运动。
Bringing attention to the movement of the emotions as well, bringing just attention to the fact that things are in motion.
也要注意情绪的运动，只注意事物正在运动的事实。
The Heraclitis panta rei, all in flux.
Heraclitis panta rei，一切都在变化。
Nothing stops besides something that is the background of it, and allows it to express, and this is the beauty of things.
除了作为背景的东西之外，没有什么会停止，并允许它表达，这就是事物的美。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
And this, for me, is the movement practice.
对我来说，这就是运动练习。
Is this examination and bringing this awareness into things.
这是检查并将这种意识带入事物中吗？
As we sit now here, I'm also aware of my body.
当我们现在坐在这里时，我也意识到我的身体。
I'm also aware of the way that things make me feel, the way that your face is communicating to me, and I'm not just in some limited and very verbal, overly verbal state, because it misses a lot of the beautiful flux.
我也意识到事物给我带来的感受，你的脸与我交流的方式，我不只是处于某种有限的、非常言语的、过度言语的状态，因为它错过了很多美丽的变化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm going to inject some, or project some ideas and perhaps you would tell me if they're ridiculous, potentially useful, or useful.
我将注入一些或提出一些想法，也许你会告诉我它们是否荒谬、是否可能有用或有用。
As I understand, what we're talking about now and what we've discussed earlier is that movement can and should be incorporated into one's entire life.
据我了解，我们现在和之前讨论的都是运动可以而且应该融入到一个人的整个生活中。
I've even heard you say that even before getting out of bed in the morning, one can experience movement, and it doesn't necessarily have to be of the intimate kind with somebody else, it can be paying attention to the rhythm of one's breath, or how you get out of the bed, or ...
我什至听你说，早上起床之前，就可以体验到运动，而且不一定是和别人亲密的那种，可以是注意呼吸的节奏，也可以是如何起床的，或者……
Actually in anticipation of you arriving here today, I noticed that as I was going up and down the stairs in this house, that I was injecting a little bit of playfulness in the way that I might have many, many decades ago, but haven't for a very long time.
事实上，在期待你今天到达这里的过程中，我注意到，当我在这座房子里上下楼梯时，我注入了一点乐趣，就像很多很多几十年前我可能有的那样，但已经很长一段时间没有了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I asked myself whether or not that's what Ido is referring to when he talks about threading this body awareness throughout the day as opposed to, but of course not exclusive from just saying, "I have 45 minutes, I'm going to do movement practice before I shower and have some dinner." I have to imagine both are helpful, but in terms of moving through the day and having bodily awareness, clearly there are an infinite number of ways one could do that.
我问自己，这是否就是 Ido 所说的全天贯穿身体意识时所指的意思，而不是（但当然不排除）只是说“我有 45 分钟的时间，我要在洗澡和吃晚饭之前进行运动练习。”我必须想象两者都有帮助，但就度过一天和拥有身体意识而言，显然有无数种方法可以做到这一点。
Maybe you could just share a few.
也许你可以分享一些。
You mentioned ...
你提到...
I mean, one could pay attention to their breath, could pay attention to posture, and this notion of play is a very attractive, or as we say in science, it's a sticky concept, a concept that draws one in.
我的意思是，人们可以注意自己的呼吸，可以注意姿势，这种游戏的概念非常有吸引力，或者正如我们在科学中所说的，这是一个粘性的概念，一个吸引人的概念。
Maybe if you would, could you share with us just some ideas to get people thinking about or maybe even incorporating movement practice into their day, and maybe even touch on the potential role of play or playfulness?
如果您愿意的话，您能否与我们分享一些想法，让人们思考，甚至将运动练习融入到他们的日常生活中，甚至可能触及游戏或娱乐的潜在作用？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Okay.
好的。
Yeah, those are some good directions.
是的，这些都是一些很好的方向。
I think one thing is what you call wordlessness.
我认为有一件事就是你所说的无言。
I have been recommending to people nonverbal experiences, and the awareness of the body, which is not really the awareness of the body, as you know.
我一直在向人们推荐非语言体验和身体意识，正如你所知，这并不是真正的身体意识。
Not purely or not fully.
不纯粹或不完全。
The awareness of motion is a very good way to start to bring awareness to that layer, and that layer will start to get clarified more and more and more the more you practice.
运动意识是开始将意识带入该层的一个非常好的方法，并且随着您练习的增多，该层将开始变得越来越清晰。
And then it will enable, for most people, a safe haven away from many states and difficulties, and will unlock a lot of potential attributes and strengths, and freshness, and a lot of beautiful things.
然后，它将为大多数人提供一个远离许多状态和困难的避风港，并将释放出许多潜在的属性和优势、新鲜感和许多美丽的事物。
Really, one of the really perspectives about who we are comes from a person who influenced my thinking a lot, Moshé Feldenkrais, the late Moshé Feldenkrais.
确实，关于我们是谁的真正观点之一来自于对我的思想影响很大的人，Moshé Feldenkrais，已故的 Moshé Feldenkrais。
And he talks about the body as the core.
他谈到身体是核心。
Three elements: the core nervous system.
三要素：核心神经系统。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Two is the mechanical system of muscle, skeleton, et cetera.
二是肌肉、骨骼等机械系统。
And the third is the environment, which is a unique way to look at it.
第三是环境，这是一种独特的看待环境的方式。
And it talks about how the nervous system is both get receiving information from the outside and from the inside, and in the first years of life, you work a lot on differentiating those, what is me and what is not me.
它讲述了神经系统如何从外部和内部接收信息，在生命的最初几年，你花了很多功夫来区分这些信息，什么是我，什么不是我。
And I think Movement, when you feel Movement, you feel the Movement of the outside that is, of course, arriving to you, and receiving this, and also your own internal Movement, and the same can be said for stillness.
我认为运动，当你感受到运动时，你会感受到外部的运动，当然，它到达了你，并接受了它，还有你自己的内部运动，对于静止也可以这样说。
So bringing the attention into those layers, it's a tricky thing.
因此，将注意力引入这些层是一件棘手的事情。
It's one of those elusive things to look at, but it's definitely of huge benefit to start to train it, start to practice it.
这是那些难以捉摸的事情之一，但开始训练它、开始练习它绝对是有巨大好处的。
To feel, not our thoughts, not necessarily our body, but to start to recognize the dynamic nature, the flux, the motion, and it occurs in all these layers.
去感受，不是我们的思想，不一定是我们的身体，而是开始认识到动态的本质、流动、运动，它发生在所有这些层中。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
So you will need to find it in multiple locations before you start to more and more make it your own, make it really yours.
因此，您需要在多个位置找到它，然后才能开始越来越多地将其变成您自己的，使其真正属于您。
How?
如何？
For example, simple pragmatic things.
例如，简单实用的事情。
I used to do this.
我曾经这样做过。
I spent some time in Hong Kong, would need to get my practice in, but I'm really turned off from commercial gyms, and there is not a lot of nature accessible there, so I would just strap on my bag and I would walk the streets of Hong Kong, which are very crowded, and then I would try to avoid touching anyone.
我在香港呆了一段时间，需要练习，但我真的对商业健身房很排斥，那里也没有太多的自然环境，所以我会背上包，走在香港的街道上，那里非常拥挤，然后我会尽量避免接触任何人。
And it would be two hours of just moving ...
而且光是搬家就需要两个小时……
Involved, fully involved, fully in my body, and experiencing beautiful things, and enjoying and developing myself as well in all kinds of scenarios, up and down, and in the escalators, and off ...
投入、全身心投入、全身心地投入到自己的身体中，体验美好的事物，在各种场景中，上下、自动扶梯上、下，享受和发展自己……
So this is an example of a way to practice.
所以这是一个练习方法的例子。
And then the way that we are sitting.
然后是我们坐的方式。
These chairs, for example, our chairs are not very dynamic, but there is rocking chairs.
这些椅子，比如我们的椅子不是很有动感，但是有摇椅。
And this is something I recommend for a lot of kids.
这是我向很多孩子推荐的。
In schools I used to rock on the chair, which is very common.
在学校里，我常常在椅子上摇晃，这很常见。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I used to have my skateboard underneath my chair and roll it back and forth, and the teacher would tell me to stop.
我曾经把滑板放在椅子下面来回滚动，老师就会叫我停下来。
And I would just slowly, little by little, trying to get the most subtle movement I could without them telling me they were going to take it away, or try.
我会慢慢地、一点一点地尝试做出最微妙的动作，而他们不会告诉我他们要把它拿走，或者尝试一下。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Which is probably horrible advice and instruction, just like sit up straight and chew with your mouth closed, because they remove a lot of the self-education, and a lot of the self-development, and the practicum and discoveries that are necessary, and even will damage focus and thinking processes in some ways.
这可能是可怕的建议和指导，就像坐直并闭上嘴咀嚼一样，因为它们消除了很多自我教育，很多自我发展，以及必要的实践和发现，甚至会在某些方面损害注意力和思维过程。
So, for example, I would make the chairs even more mobile, and I would support more motion, and then I would be able to bring attention there, but I would also be able to bring attention away from it into other things.
所以，举例来说，我会让椅子更加移动，我会支持更多的运动，然后我就能够将注意力集中在那里，但我也能够将注意力从它转移到其他事情上。
And it keeps refreshing me so I don't become stale, the water doesn't stand, this is the beauty of movement.
它不断地让我精神焕发，这样我就不会变得陈旧，水不会停滞，这就是运动的美丽。
So you can focus for long periods of time and do incredible things with the mind, with focus, with awareness, attention, and it's with skin in the game.
所以你可以长时间集中注意力，用头脑、专注、意识、注意力做出令人难以置信的事情，这是与游戏中的利益相关。
So I'm not talking as some meditator and he's describing the act of being very focused, but then I put a stick on the edge of his fingers and I tell him, "Balance it." Everyone can do it for 10 seconds.
所以我不是以冥想者的身份说话，他是在描述非常专注的行为，但然后我把一根棍子放在他的手指边缘，告诉他，“平衡它。”每个人都可以做10秒。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
And I tell him, "Okay, now hold it 10 minutes." And you see that the skill has ...
我告诉他，“好吧，现在坚持 10 分钟。”而且你会看到该技能...
He has no skin in the game.
他没有参与其中。
It wasn't developed in various scenarios, so there is a delusion that start to develop, and that's how ...
它不是在各种场景中开发的，所以有一种错觉开始发展，这就是......
Movement keeps me very honest and humble, in the way that I view humility, and in a way that protects me and keeps me fresh.
运动让我变得非常诚实和谦虚，以我看待谦逊的方式，以一种保护我并让我保持新鲜感的方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love the example of moving through the crowded street with a backpack, because of the way in which it's completely adaptive to the situation you happen to be in, and highlights the fact that one doesn't need a gym or any specific scenario.
我喜欢背着背包穿过拥挤的街道的例子，因为它完全适应你所处的情况，并强调了一个事实，即人们不需要健身房或任何特定场景。
Although, we will certainly touch on ideal learning circumstances for movement and some of the work that you're doing, of course.
尽管如此，我们当然会涉及运动的理想学习环境以及您正在做的一些工作。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
The less of your own personal practice and understanding and knowledge you've done, the more toys you need.
你自己的个人实践、理解和知识越少，你需要的玩具就越多。
The more you've really worked on yourself, the more high-tech you are.
你对自己付出的努力越多，你的技术含量就越高。
The more low-tech are your tools, the more high-tech you are.
你的工具科技含量越低，你的科技含量就越高。
And this is the most advanced technology, by far, on this planet.
这是迄今为止这个星球上最先进的技术。
With all the advancement, it doesn't even start to scratch, and you know it, from the way that we understand the eyes all the way to ...
随着所有的进步，它甚至没有开始刮擦，你知道这一点，从我们理解眼睛的方式一直到......
With all due respect to the Boston robotics, a five-year-old motion, movements or animal motion, was very underdeveloped, still relatively, to us as systems, so important to remind ourselves.
尽管对波士顿机器人技术抱有应有的尊重，但五年前的运动、运动或动物运动，对于我们作为系统来说仍然非常不发达，仍然相对而言，因此提醒我们自己非常重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A lot can be done with the body and gravity.
身体和重力可以做很多事情。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Floor.
地板。
A piece of floor, piece of wall, a corner of a room is a beautiful scenario which you can discover in and play in.
一块地板，一块墙，一个房间的一角都是一个美丽的场景，你可以在其中发现和玩耍。
But we are not so developed, so we don't see those options.
但我们还没有那么发达，所以我们看不到这些选择。
And this is something that I try to stimulate, and that's why I made it a point to avoid any of the big sponsorship and high-tech tools.
这是我试图激发的东西，这就是为什么我强调要避免任何大型赞助和高科技工具。
And I, on point, brought a stick into big conventions, or sometimes I use a shirt with holes in it, just like a used shirt, as a point to make when I'm addressing a crowd, to keep things where it's important.
我在大型会议上会带上一根棍子，或者有时我会使用一件有洞的衬衫，就像一件旧衬衫一样，作为我在向人群讲话时要表达的观点，以将重要的事情保留在重要的地方。
And it's important ...
这很重要......
We are important and our experience is important, and we have to be very careful.
我们很重要，我们的经验很重要，我们必须非常小心。
These habits and these directions, they come from, many times, good intention, but they are the devil many times.
这些习惯和这些方向，很多时候来自善意，但很多时候它们是魔鬼。
They turn into the devil, just like our technology nowadays, and what is happening with people with depression, with meaninglessness, also with the body in various perspectives, or even ...
他们变成了魔鬼，就像我们现在的科技一样，那些患有抑郁症、毫无意义的人、以及各种角度的身体、甚至……的人正在发生什么。
I will also flip it into high-performance sports and their price, because for me this is not the movement practice, it erases the person in the center of it.
我也会把它变成高性能运动和它们的价格，因为对我来说这不是运动练习，它抹去了处于运动中心的人。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
And then came places like skateboarding, or breakdancing, where somebody with a disability becomes the best in the world, turns it into the biggest advantage, but you would never be accepted into gymnastics class, and I love that.
然后出现了像滑板或霹雳舞这样的地方，残疾人成为世界上最好的人，将其变成最大的优势，但你永远不会被体操班录取，我喜欢这样。
And that change, to place change in the center, it's important.
这种变化，将变化置于中心位置，这一点很重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You touched on mention of a few sports, maybe it was Charles Poliquin, or maybe it was another trainer, that I heard once say that for kids, one of the worst things they can do is overspecialize in a particular sport.
你提到了一些运动，也许是查尔斯·波利昆，或者也许是另一位教练，我曾经听人说过，对于孩子来说，他们能做的最糟糕的事情之一就是过度专注于某项特定运动。
The idea being that it leads to improvements in performance in a very narrow domain, but they raised the idea that it perhaps also constrains the development of the nervous system such that certain emotional states, certain intellectual abilities, will forever be shut off because of the intense plasticity that occurs early in life.
他们的想法是，它会在一个非常狭窄的领域带来表现的改善，但他们提出了这样的想法，即它可能也会限制神经系统的发展，使得某些情绪状态、某些智力能力将永远被关闭，因为生命早期发生的强烈可塑性。
The more I learn from you, the more I'm thinking that that statement really should be extended to all of life.
我从你身上学到的东西越多，我就越觉得这句话真的应该推广到生活的各个方面。
And I love to remind people, because I started off as a developmental neurobiologist, that development doesn't start and end, you don't have childhood and adulthood, our life is one long developmental arc from birth until death, however long that might be.
我喜欢提醒人们，因为我一开始是一名发育神经生物学家，发育没有开始和结束，你没有童年和成年，我们的生命是从出生到死亡的一个漫长的发展弧，无论有多长。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if one is going to be antispecialist, maybe even we call that a generalist, what does that look like?
因此，如果一个人要成为反专业人士，甚至我们可能称其为通才，那会是什么样子呢？
What are the different domains of movement practice?
运动练习有哪些不同领域？
And as I ask this, I realize I am in serious danger of fractionating movement into a list of words like strength, and speed, and explosiveness, and suppleness, a word that I've heard you use before.
当我问这个问题时，我意识到我正面临着将运动分解成一系列单词的严重危险，比如力量、速度、爆发力和柔软度，我以前听过你用过这个词。
And yet I think for most people, because we think in words often, some of those categories can be useful.
但我认为对于大多数人来说，因为我们经常用文字思考，其中一些类别可能是有用的。
So let's say I was going to embark on a movement practice, or a child was going to embark on a movement practice, either throughout the day or for a dedicated period of time, what are the sorts of categories of movement that I might want to think about?
假设我要开始一项运动练习，或者一个孩子要开始一项运动练习，无论是全天还是专门的一段时间，我可能想要考虑哪些类型的运动？
Ballistic movement, smooth movement.
弹道运动，运动平稳。
Maybe you could just enrich us with some of the landscape around that.
也许你可以用周围的一些风景来丰富我们。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Okay.
好的。
First, I'll address the first part that you mentioned, and I've learned from you about certain changes in the way that things develop later in life versus earlier in life.
首先，我将解决你提到的第一部分，我从你那里了解到晚年事物发展方式与早年相比的某些变化。
And you're right, it is something that Charles Poliquin also mentioned, and I learned from back in the day as well from him, which can seem dark a bit and kind of hopeless, but then you should go beyond that.
你是对的，查尔斯·波利昆也提到过这一点，我当时也从他那里学到了这一点，这可能看起来有点黑暗，有点绝望，但你应该超越这一点。
One thing that does seem to appear for me, when I look around, is this ...
当我环顾四周时，我似乎确实看到了一件事，那就是……
The concepts of unique postures, and I think this is true for postures of thought, emotional postures, and movement postures.
独特姿势的概念，我认为对于思想姿势、情感姿势和运动姿势来说都是如此。
Truly, earlier in life, we are creating these unique postures, and they get into these drawers, or like a language — letters.
确实，在生命的早期，我们正在创造这些独特的姿势，它们进入这些抽屉，或者像一种语言——字母。
Later in life, the process moves more towards integration of these unique postures into all different organizations.
在以后的生活中，这个过程更加倾向于将这些独特的姿势整合到所有不同的组织中。
The beauty of it is that you can use very few postures to create many possibilities, just like lib needs search for a language that contains one symbol only versus two, which he discovered.
它的美妙之处在于你可以用很少的姿势来创造多种可能性，就像他发现的 lib 需要搜索一种只包含一个符号而不包含两个符号的语言一样。
And this is something that is often seen, you take someone who moves in a certain way, and you teach him all these-
这是经常看到的事情，你带一个以某种方式移动的人，然后你教他所有这些——
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
...
...
and who moves in a certain way and you teach him all these new sports or techniques, but essentially, if you look deeply and you're sensitive, you see it's the same postures that he will have to work with till the end of his life, the same thinking postures, and this is really problematic where we are not freeing the mind beyond a scaffolding of thinking and we are actually letting go of the content.
如果你以某种方式移动，你教他所有这些新的运动或技巧，但本质上，如果你深入观察并且你很敏感，你会发现他将不得不使用相同的姿势直到生命的尽头，相同的思维姿势，这确实是有问题的，因为我们没有将思想解放到思维的脚手架之外，而我们实际上是在放弃内容。
We get more and more focused on the way of thinking versus the thinking itself or habitual ways and forms of thinking, associated thinking, et cetera.
我们越来越关注思维方式，而不是思维本身或思维的习惯方式和形式、关联思维等等。
Emotionally, the same.
情感上，是一样的。
We are constructing these emotional postures, and then we have to go through the rest of our lives working with that.
我们正在构建这些情绪姿势，然后我们必须在余生中与之相处。
This is the dark side.
这是黑暗的一面。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
But of course there are always possibilities, both I think invading this early system to some extent, even if it's 5% or 7% or whatever percent, and also on the freeing yourself of going beyond all postures, period, working with the postures you have, but towards a postureless way of doing things.
但当然总是有可能性的，我认为在某种程度上侵入这个早期的系统，即使是 5% 或 7% 或任何百分比，而且也让自己摆脱所有姿势，时期，用你所拥有的姿势工作，但走向一种无姿势的做事方式。
This is something interesting when people work with movement, but finally are able to go into Movement, and this magic starts to happen, and then the techniques fall apart and something appears and it's a face change, it's a transformation.
当人们与运动一起工作时，这是一件有趣的事情，但最终能够进入运动，这种魔力开始发生，然后技术崩溃，出现一些东西，这是一个面孔的变化，这是一个转变。
It's a binary moment.
这是一个二元时刻。
There is a jump there, for sure, and it's very rare to see both in thinking and emotionally and other ways.
当然，那里有一个跳跃，而且在思维、情感和其他方面都很少见。
We have many names for it and some talk about enlightenment and some talk about all kind of processes related to it.
我们对它有很多名称，有些谈论启蒙，有些谈论与之相关的各种过程。
I think most of them are shadows of the sun, but it's not the sun itself, really.
我认为它们中的大多数都是太阳的影子，但实际上它并不是太阳本身。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Then talking about ways of thinking about movement, this is where I use something I call my slice and dice.
然后谈论思考运动的方式，这就是我使用我称之为“切片和骰子”的东西的地方。
Because of the problem of using words and definitions and categories, I try to create a lot of them and I write them on the paper and then I crumble them, throw them into the bin, and I keep doing it all my life.
由于使用单词、定义和类别的问题，我尝试创建很多它们，然后将它们写在纸上，然后将它们粉碎，扔进垃圾箱，我一生都在这样做。
The writing them down and the geeking on it is very important.
把它们写下来并对其进行极客研究非常重要。
Also very important, to let it go.
同样非常重要的是，放手。
I tell people, forgetting is not the same as never knowing it.
我告诉人们，忘记并不等于从不知道。
The crumbling and throwing away is a form of forgetting, but it leaves some kind of a homeopathic trace behind.
破碎和丢弃是一种遗忘，但它会留下某种顺势疗法的痕迹。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Let's take some slice and dice and try to look at it.
让我们把一些切片和切块试着看一下。
Here is a physical one, contraction, relaxation.
这是物理上的，收缩，放松。
That's a spectrum and pretty much everything falls on this spectrum.
这是一个范围，几乎所有东西都落在这个范围内。
Also in terms of analyzing a person or yourself, you can tell me if you feel closer to this side or closer to that side.
另外在分析一个人或者你自己的时候，你可以告诉我你是感觉更接近这一面还是更接近那一边。
Then it allows you to examine your practices.
然后它可以让你检查你的实践。
How many of the practices are moving you to towards balance?
有多少练习可以让您走向平衡？
How many it's your addiction of just doing what you're good at versus what you need?
有多少是你沉迷于只做自己擅长的事情而不是做自己需要的事情？
Here is another example, physical culture.
这是另一个例子，体育文化。
We have the dance, really, working with internal concepts and expressing them, abstract concepts, expression.
我们确实有舞蹈，处理内部概念并表达它们，抽象概念，表达。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Second perspective, the Marshal concept, but not in the sense of just fighting, but also partnering, working with another person, a dynamic entity that is communicating with you.
第二个视角，元帅概念，但不仅仅是战斗的意义上，而且还包括与另一个人合作、合作，一个与你沟通的动态实体。
The third one is I call the elements, working with the environment.
第三个是我所说的元素，与环境一起工作。
The next one is a somatic one, is the internal practice, and of course, there are all gray zones.
接下来是躯体的，是内功，当然都是有灰色地带的。
Another one is object manipulatory, which you can think of it also as the environment, but it's more small objects, heavy objects, many objects, few objects.
另一种是物体操纵，你也可以把它想象成环境，但更多的是小物体、重物体、多物体、少物体。
Then you can look at this way of thinking and you can say, "I have many of my practices in this direction," and you can draw it for yourself.
那么你可以看这个思维方式，你可以说“我有很多这个方向的实践”，你可以自己画出来。
That's another perspective, and this way, I use dozens of perspectives and with the years, it gives people a sense of where they want to go, how they want to do it and what they need to address versus what they like to address, et cetera.
这是另一种观点，通过这种方式，我使用了数十种观点，多年来，它让人们了解他们想去哪里，他们想如何做，以及他们需要解决什么问题以及他们喜欢解决什么问题，等等。
Is it helpful?
有帮助吗？
PART 1 OF 5 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 1 部分（共 5 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
Very helpful.
非常有帮助。
Those different bins are very helpful.
这些不同的垃圾箱非常有帮助。
I really appreciate that you mentioned that people will often practice what they're good at as opposed to what they need.
我真的很感激你提到人们经常会练习他们擅长的事情，而不是他们需要的事情。
In gym culture, we refer to this as the guy that always skips leg day-type person, right?
在健身房文化中，我们将这种人称为总是跳过腿日类型的人，对吧？
Big upper body, skinny legs.
上半身大，腿细。
Or you'll see people that have these enormous thick torsos and they're bench pressing all day, but they clearly need to pull on an object every once in a while to create some balance.
或者你会看到人们有着巨大而厚实的躯干，他们整天都在卧推，但他们显然需要时不时地拉动一个物体来创造一些平衡。
But they don't do it because for whatever reason they have an obsession with moving greater and greater poundage or something like that, which in certain sports, like power lifting where esthetics aren't the goal and it's simply to push more weight off one's chest, you could imagine that there's something beneficial there.
但他们不这样做，因为无论出于什么原因，他们痴迷于移动越来越大的磅数或类似的东西，在某些运动中，例如力量举重，美观不是目标，它只是将更多的重量从胸部推开，你可以想象那里有一些有益的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
However, I think that it's really important in intellectual endeavors and in movement endeavors, if I understand correctly, to bring oneself to a place of real challenge on a regular basis.
然而，我认为，如果我理解正确的话，在智力努力和运动努力中，定期让自己面临真正的挑战是非常重要的。
In fact, earlier today I was in a state of constant challenge because it was all new to me, and as much as I told myself, "Beginner's mind, beginner's mind, beginner's mind," it's hard, I confess, to not want to do well, to perform well, right?
事实上，今天早些时候，我一直处于不断挑战的状态，因为这对我来说都是新的，尽管我告诉自己，“初学者的心态，初学者的心态，初学者的心态”，我承认，不想做得好，表现好，是很难的，对吗？
I think that's a natural and healthy thing,
我认为这是一件自然而健康的事情
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Not only natural, it is necessary, but I want you to keep it on that side and to bring something to balance it.
这不仅是自然的，也是必要的，但我希望你保持这一点，并带来一些东西来平衡它。
If there is not this challenge, the process will not work.
如果没有这个挑战，这个过程就无法进行。
It has to be this scale, and you're talking about scales of pain, pleasure.
它必须是这个尺度，而你谈论的是痛苦、快乐的尺度。
This is another scale and this discomfort, again, is necessary and should be recognized as, "I'm in the right place." When it becomes too high and I'm unable to resolve, to make any progress, I went overboard.
这是另一个尺度，这种不适再次是必要的，应该被视为“我在正确的地方”。当它变得太高而我无法下定决心、无法取得任何进展时，我就太过分了。
But when it's not present, I don't do nothing here, nothing that I'm truly interested in.
但当它不存在时，我不会在这里做任何事情，也不会做任何我真正感兴趣的事情。
I'm just gratifying myself, wankery.
我只是在满足自己，狂妄自大。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
In essence, it's not about searching for the discomfort, but it's a marker.
从本质上讲，这不是寻找不适，而是一个标记。
I think the question should be, Who am I serving?
我认为问题应该是，我在为谁服务？
Because people do not serve themselves, in essence.
因为从本质上讲，人们并不为自己服务。
They serve part, parts of it, some kind of a fraction of themselves and this separation of oneself from oneself, and this is also a result of the practice, a good practice.
他们服务于一部分，一部分，自己的某种一小部分，以及这种自我与自我的分离，这也是修行的结果，一个好的修行。
I think maybe the biggest gift I received from the practice is I can say, although it will take maybe a certain context, I'm not my friend.
我想也许我从实践中收到的最大礼物是我可以说，尽管这可能需要一定的背景，但我不是我的朋友。
At times, I am, but many times I am not my friend.
有时，我是，但很多时候我不是我的朋友。
By creating this separation, I can assume a certain stability in the face of everything, all the way up to our own mortality and death and maybe beyond, who knows?
通过创造这种分离，我可以在面对一切时保持一定的稳定性，一直到我们自己的死亡和死亡，甚至可能超越，谁知道呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was a striking moment for me earlier today when I was really challenged with one of the practices we were doing, and you said, "This is exactly what I experienced this morning, Andrew." That's what you said.
今天早些时候，这对我来说是一个引人注目的时刻，当时我正在做的一项练习确实面临着挑战，你说：“这正是我今天早上所经历的，安德鲁。”这就是你说的。
I couldn't imagine that you were having challenges doing what I was attempting to do, and of course, you were.
我无法想象你在做我想做的事情时遇到了挑战，当然，你确实遇到了挑战。
I believe what you were referring to is that you had put yourself at that edge earlier in the day in which you were making failures, you were failing to execute the way that you were attempting to execute movement.
我相信你所指的是，你在失败的那天早些时候就把自己置于了边缘，你未能执行你试图执行动作的方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just to inject some neuroscience and neuroplasticity there — I can't help myself, this is what I do after all.
只是为了在那里注入一些神经科学和神经可塑性——我无法控制自己，毕竟这就是我所做的。
There are beautiful data in animals and humans showing that in the seconds and minutes after a failed attempt at a motor execution of something, the forebrain is in a heightened state of focus, and when you hear it, it suddenly makes perfect sense.
动物和人类身上的数据表明，在尝试运动执行某件事失败后的几秒钟和几分钟内，前脑处于高度集中的状态，当你听到它时，它突然变得非常有意义。
Of course, why would the nervous system change unless it got a cue to change?
当然，如果没有得到改变的提示，神经系统为什么会改变呢？
The cue almost always comes in the form of frustration, the ...
暗示几乎总是以沮丧的形式出现，...
Or as we said earlier, Nah.
或者正如我们之前所说，不。
The Nah signal is the one that preps you to extract more learning from the subsequent trials, and yet for a lot of people, they feel that failure to execute or even to approximate execution, and they feel and experience the negative signal, and they lean out of the practice.
“不”信号是让你从后续试验中获取更多知识的信号，但对于很多人来说，他们感到无法执行甚至接近执行，他们感受到并体验到负面信号，然后他们就放弃了实践。
They start to depart either mentally or physically or both.
他们开始在精神上或身体上或两者上都离开。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If there's anything I think that perhaps we can offer as this understanding that that edge, as some people call it, or that failures aren't just necessary, they are part of the learning process.
如果有什么我认为也许我们可以提供这样的理解，那就是这种优势，正如一些人所说的那样，或者失败不仅仅是必要的，它们是学习过程的一部分。
They are the entry gate to neuroplasticity.
它们是神经可塑性的入口。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yes, contextualizing or recontextualizing that sensation is something I work a lot with and I just reminder to people and I also remind it to myself, and if it wasn't difficult and we didn't need to redo it again and again, we wouldn't be, again, on this correct scale which is dynamic and moving, just like rolling downhill.
是的，将这种感觉情境化或重新情境化是我经常做的事情，我只是提醒人们，我也提醒自己，如果这不困难，我们不需要一次又一次地重做，我们就不会再次处于这个动态和移动的正确尺度上，就像滚下山一样。
There is definitely a necessity to succeed, to orient, there is certain aspects that you want to achieve, but then there is also the letting go of it and the de-ambitioning of it.
肯定有必要取得成功，确定方向，有某些方面是你想要实现的，但也有放弃它和消除它的野心。
Within that tension, the plus and the minus, comes movement.
在这种张力中，有正负，就有运动。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Again, if I stretch it too far away, or if I increase one of them too much, then I would have some issues.
再说一次，如果我把它拉得太远，或者如果我把其中一个增加太多，那么我就会遇到一些问题。
But you will, with practice, learn to recognize the optimal point of progression.
但通过练习，你将学会识别最佳的进步点。
Of course, it takes many years and a lot of play and exposure to get a sense of it, regardless of the layer in which it is applied.
当然，无论它应用在哪个层，都需要多年的时间、大量的玩耍和接触才能获得它的感觉。
I'm sure in your field and in your pursuits, you are already aware of it and applying it in your life, talking about focus, talking about ways of thinking, creativity, et cetera.
我确信在你的领域和你的追求中，你已经意识到它并将其应用到你的生活中，谈论焦点，谈论思维方式，创造力等等。
But then it's enough that I pull into another perspective and you will see that people are specialists and then they don't have, really, the real essence of the concept.
但只要我换个角度看，你就会发现，人们都是专家，但他们实际上并没有这个概念的真正本质。
It's not theirs.
这不是他们的。
It's applied specifically.
是专门应用的。
The one who changes all the time gets the general component because what appears when everything changes, that is that new entity.
一直在变化的人获得了通用组件，因为当一切都发生变化时，就会出现新的实体。
Everything changes, something stays.
一切都变了，但有些东西依然存在。
That's what we want to get.
这就是我们想要得到的。
This concept and this understanding,
这个概念和这个理解，
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've heard this statement before, we are just a meat vehicle, we're just a sack of cells, and I truly despise that statement because first of all, it deprives us of all meaning in, of our lives, and we can go down the route of philosophy as to whether or not there's meaning or not.
我以前听过这样的说法，我们只是一个肉食载体，我们只是一袋细胞，我真的很鄙视这种说法，因为首先，它剥夺了我们生命中的所有意义，我们可以沿着哲学的道路去思考是否存在意义。
But more importantly, it divorces us from the idea that the body and brain are interconnected and have at least equal value at any one moment, that they're informing each other.
但更重要的是，它使我们摆脱了这样的观念：身体和大脑是相互联系的，并且在任何时刻都至少具有同等的价值，它们正在互相通知。
Emotions inform movement.
情绪影响运动。
Movement informs emotions.
运动传达情绪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One thing that I've heard you say before and I'd really love to hear you embellish on is this important principle that human beings are truly unique in terms of the enormous range of movements that we can perform, and yet we are excellent, maybe superior to all other species at certain types of movement.
我以前听你说过一件事，我真的很想听你补充一下，那就是这个重要原则，即人类在我们可以执行的大量运动方面确实是独一无二的，但我们很优秀，在某些类型的运动上可能优于所有其他物种。
The one that comes to mind is walking, striding.
我想到的是行走、大步走。
Maybe we could just explore that idea because obviously a cheetah is very fast, the gibbon seems to have a lot of proficiency at grabbing and swinging from branches, but human beings perform an enormous, or can potentially perform an enormous array of movements.
也许我们可以探索这个想法，因为显然猎豹速度非常快，长臂猿似乎非常擅长抓取和摆动树枝，但人类可以执行巨大的或可能执行一系列巨大的动作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you think all human beings are potentially able to explore all the different types of movement?
您认为所有人类都有可能探索所有不同类型的运动吗？
If so, how does one approach that?
如果是这样，人们该如何处理呢？
Basically what I'm doing is I'm tabling a concept which is not range of motion.
基本上我正在做的是提出一个不是运动范围的概念。
For the gym rats, discard range of motion.
对于健身房老鼠，放弃运动范围。
I'm talking about the variety of movements.
我说的是各种动作。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
First, it's not important what I think, if it's possible or not possible or if it's even possible for you or not possible for you.
首先，我的想法并不重要，无论它是否可能，或者对于你来说是否可能。
What is important is what you truly want to do, what you truly are after.
重要的是你真正想做的事、真正追求的东西。
It's important for me because many times, this way of thinking about things is already limited.
这对我来说很重要，因为很多时候，这种思考事物的方式已经是有限的。
I like to say a man doesn't go to the ocean to empty it with a spoon.
我想说，一个人不会去大海里用勺子倒空它。
A lot of the types of dressing up of the concept nowadays is trying to fit an elephant into the hole in the needle.
如今，许多装扮的概念都是试图将大象放入针孔中。
For example, the concept of practice and then our lives, as if we have a life, we have some kind of a stream of behaviors.
比如说修行的理念，然后是我们的生活，就好像我们有一个生命，我们有某种流的行为。
There is an argument of free will, et cetera.
有自由意志的争论，等等。
There is a multiplicity, definitely.
肯定存在多样性。
A man is a legion.
一个人就是一个军团。
That's the real meaning of that phrase.
这就是这句话的真正含义。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
One day you wake up like this, I say, "Andrew, let's meet tomorrow at 7:00 a.m.," but I don't know who's going to wake up tomorrow.
有一天，你像这样醒来，我说，“安德鲁，我们明天早上 7:00 见面吧”，但我不知道明天谁会醒来。
Then you send me a text message, "Oh, I'm feeling off," at 6:55 and go back to sleep.
然后你在 6:55 给我发一条短信，“哦，我感觉不太舒服”，然后回去睡觉。
Examining that and seeing that I think frees you up eventually and start to orient you in a better direction.
我认为检查并发现这一点最终会让你解放出来，并开始引导你走向更好的方向。
What do you want to do, but in the orientation of also what you need to do, what you sense and what you are developing as an evolutionary direction for you, this is the important bit.
你想做什么，但也以你需要做什么、你感觉到什么以及你正在发展什么作为你的进化方向为导向，这是重要的一点。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Is it possible for everyone to engage in certain specific physical movement?
每个人都可以进行某些特定的身体运动吗？
For example, in Scandinavian countries, the squat is not very approachable, it's very difficult.
例如，在斯堪的纳维亚国家，深蹲就不是很平易近人，非常困难。
They are more built for dragging heavy things, and also in this climate, I guess it makes less sense to squat because you're going to freeze there.
它们更适合拖动重物，而且在这种气候下，我想蹲着就没有意义，因为你会被冻在那里。
Then you see the squat in warm climates, and it's so open and accessible.
然后你会看到温暖气候下的深蹲，它是如此开放和方便。
They're very good deadlifters usually, not good squatters and-
他们通常是非常好的硬拉运动员，而不是好的深蹲运动员，而且——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They want to get away from the ground.
他们想要离开地面。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yeah.
是的。
The shallow hip socket, which allows one activity, but then the stability of the deep hip socket architecture of the hip, the femur heads, the Q angles, the shapes, et cetera.
浅髋关节窝允许进行一项活动，但也允许髋部深髋关节窝结构、股骨头、Q 角、形状等的稳定性。
We are all unique and are certain elements which, for example, my squat challenges, for most people, there is something there.
我们都是独一无二的，都有某些元素，例如我的深蹲挑战，对于大多数人来说，都有一些东西。
But-
但是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Could you remind people what the squat challenge is?
你能提醒人们什么是深蹲挑战吗？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
The squat was my attempt to bring a new, fresh state of mind into the word "squat." Not as a strength element, but it's a fundamental resting position, really.
深蹲是我试图给“深蹲”这个词带来一种新的、新鲜的心态。不是作为一个力量元素，但它确实是一个基本的休息位置。
Actually should be one of the most abundant ones.
实际上应该是最丰富的之一。
We replaced it with sitting, which doesn't work well if you're in a natural environment.
我们用坐姿代替了它，但如果你处于自然环境中，坐姿效果不佳。
It's not very comfortable, actually, to sit for long periods of time, rocks and different terrain, so you end up lying down, standing and squatting a lot.
事实上，长时间坐着并不是很舒服，岩石和不同的地形，所以你最终会躺下、站立和蹲下。
Also, when you're moving low and dynamic, even collecting berries, the squat is much more dynamic and open.
此外，当你的动作低且充满活力时，甚至是收集浆果时，深蹲也会更加充满活力和开放。
Then elimination is happening there, it's such a fundamental thing and we totally eliminated it.
然后消除就在那里发生，这是一个非常基本的事情，我们完全消除了它。
We eliminated many other things, overhead movements, behind the back, all kinds of back realm, what I call the back realm is totally absent in people's awareness.
我们取消了很多其他的东西，头顶的动作，背后的动作，各种背部境界，我所说的背部境界，在人们的意识中是完全不存在的。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
That was my attempt to bring it back into people, and I recommend, in order to really get the transformation going, to accumulate 30 minutes a day in the squat position, unloaded, just resting down, not correct, not error.
这是我试图将其带回人们身上的尝试，我建议，为了真正实现转变，每天积累 30 分钟的蹲姿，卸下重担，只是休息，不是正确的，也不是错误的。
Many people make this mistake, they didn't read through the whole thing.
很多人都犯了这个错误，他们没有通读全文。
It's just resting down there.
它只是在下面休息。
Of course, you have to be mindful of dosages.
当然，一定要注意剂量。
Some people will get hurt if they try to do it too quickly.
有些人如果做得太快就会受伤。
They might need a buildup process towards it.
他们可能需要一个积累过程。
Also, I'm not talking about 30 minutes straight, but accumulation throughout the day, and this does a lot of good, for digestive problems, for lower back pain, for hip pains, for knees and generally for aging because it's basically folding your body in the most basic way.
另外，我说的不是连续 30 分钟，而是全天的积累，这对治疗消化问题、下背部疼痛、臀部疼痛、膝盖疼痛以及一般的衰老有很大好处，因为它基本上是以最基本的方式折叠你的身体。
Are you folding your body?
你折叠身体吗？
If you're not folding your body, you will lose the foldability of your body, and this is probably the easiest and the most abundant way to fold the body.
如果你不折叠身体，你就会失去身体的可折叠性，而这可能是最简单、最丰富的身体折叠方式。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
But this is an example of something that can be very useful with many, many people, but there will always be unique individuals which need something else.
但这是一个对很多人都非常有用的例子，但总会有独特的个人需要其他东西。
There are benefits in examining things, and also there are benefits in getting hurt, which is not often discussed, especially not in these parts.
检查事物有好处，受伤也有好处，但这一点不常被讨论，尤其是在这些部分。
I'm one of the only ones as a teacher that says I injured many of my students, and if I did not do that, I would be totally useless for them as well.
作为一名老师，我是唯一一个说我伤害了很多学生的人，如果我不这样做，我对他们来说也将毫无用处。
The totally safe system has nothing to offer practically.
完全安全的系统实际上没有什么可提供的。
Nothing is totally safe, and, of course, we don't approach it with a ballsy or machoistic thing, but we are aware that sometimes we have to go beyond the boundaries, and hopefully those would be the small injuries that will help us avoid the big injuries.
没有什么是完全安全的，当然，我们不会以勇敢或大男子主义的方式来对待它，但我们知道有时我们必须超越界限，希望这些小伤害将帮助我们避免大伤害。
But if you try to avoid the small injuries, maybe you'll get those big injuries in there.
但如果你试图避免小伤，也许你会受到大伤。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Examining which types and forms of movement, the location of the body, speed of execution, the type of organization of the body, which is a whole thing that we can discuss, all of this is up for the grabs and something that we have to create individual relationship with, hopefully with good guidance where we can get the right scenarios.
检查运动的类型和形式、身体的位置、执行的速度、身体的组织类型，这是我们可以讨论的一整件事，所有这些都是可以把握的，也是我们必须与之建立个人关系的东西，希望有良好的指导，我们可以得到正确的场景。
A facilitator of good scenarios for our learning, which is what I try to do, and less of a technical state of mind, do this ABC or chunking.
为我们的学习提供良好的场景的促进者，这就是我试图做的，而不是技术性的心态，做这个 ABC 或组块。
What I really dislike for a long time is many people, they tell me, "Have you met this guy?
我很长一段时间以来真正讨厌的是很多人，他们告诉我，“你见过这个人吗？
He is an amazing teacher because he chunked the process into these bits," and not even in the correct places to chunk.
他是一位了不起的老师，因为他将整个过程分解成这些片段，”甚至没有在正确的位置进行分解。
It doesn't offer, it locks us, this state of mind.
它不提供，而是锁定我们这种心态。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
I talk about the chemistry model.
我谈论化学模型。
I call it my chemistry model, where an atom, a molecule and then a compound is conceptualized versus just chunking.
我称之为我的化学模型，其中原子、分子和化合物被概念化，而不是仅仅分块。
There is an actual evolution, I call it also sketch learning.
有一个实际的进化，我也称之为素描学习。
I'm not going to try to draw you.
我不会尝试画你。
If I know anything about art and drawing, I'm going to start by capturing something very rough, and I need to practice that first, that dynamic entity, before I go into the rendering and the shading, et cetera.
如果我对艺术和绘画有所了解，我将首先捕捉一些非常粗糙的东西，并且我需要首先练习动态实体，然后再进行渲染和着色等。
The same way to learn things, big picture to small details.
学习事物的方式是一样的，从大局到小细节。
Unlike many of my teachers that I ran into and I say with the greatest respect because I don't know who taught me more, my good teachers or my worst teachers, but some of them just teach from the small details into a big picture that never arrives.
与我遇到的许多老师不同，我怀着最大的敬意说，因为我不知道谁教了我更多，我的好老师还是我最差的老师，但他们中的一些人只是从小细节教到永远不会到达的大局。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Given that humans can generate such a broad array of types of movement, run, jump, duck, squat, leap, all these types of movements, do you think there's value in observing the movements of other animal species?
鉴于人类可以产生如此广泛的运动类型，跑、跳、躲、蹲、跳跃，所有这些类型的运动，你认为观察其他动物物种的运动是否有价值？
I know I certainly enjoy watching other animals move.
我知道我当然喜欢看其他动物移动。
I think one of the more spectacular animal facts that was shared with me is when I was a graduate student, someone down the hall was working on the little pedals of the chameleon, which can walk up walls, and it was a great mystery whether or not they were suction, but turns out they can do it in a vacuum, so it's not suction, whether or not there was some sticky substance, and it turned out ...
我认为与我分享的更壮观的动物事实之一是当我还是一名研究生时，大厅里有人正在研究变色龙的小踏板，它可以爬上墙壁，它们是否具有吸力是一个很大的谜，但事实证明他们可以在真空中做到这一点，所以它不是吸力，无论是否有一些粘性物质，结果是......
I don't know, I feel compelled to share this with you, so I'm going to do it because I have a feeling it will lead us to an insight of some sort.
我不知道，我觉得有必要与你们分享这一点，所以我会这么做，因为我有一种感觉，这会让我们获得某种洞察力。
Those little tiny petals are so thin and so close together that the chameleon actually sticks to the wall by what are called Van der Waals forces, meaning it's a very weak molecular force, but strong enough to stick to the wall because they are actually exchanging molecules with the surface they're on.
这些小花瓣非常薄，而且靠得很近，以至于变色龙实际上是通过所谓的范德华力粘在墙上，这意味着它是一种非常弱的分子力，但足够强大，可以粘在墙上，因为它们实际上正在与它们所在的表面交换分子。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Wow.
哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Obviously, we can't do that, and yet I spent hours, because they were in the lab next door, watching videos of these little chameleons walk, and the articulation of these feet is incredible because they're literally rolling those little petals along in a way that kind of defies anything else I've ever seen.
显然，我们做不到这一点，但我花了几个小时，因为他们在隔壁的实验室里，观看这些小变色龙行走的视频，这些脚的关节令人难以置信，因为它们实际上以一种我从未见过的方式滚动这些小花瓣。
I told myself this was useful, A, because I thought it was interesting, but B, because I never really thought about how I articulate my foot.
我告诉自己这很有用，A，因为我认为这很有趣，但是 B，因为我从来没有真正考虑过如何表达我的脚。
I've thought about being a heel striker or a toe striker when I run, and no one can tell me which one I'm supposed to be.
当我跑步时，我想过成为脚后跟着地者或脚趾着地者，但没有人能告诉我我应该成为哪一个。
Maybe you can tell me.
也许你可以告诉我。
But the point is, or I suppose the question is, do you think there's value in observing the extremes of animal kingdom movement as a way to inform the play space and the exploration space of our own human movement practice?
但重点是，或者我认为问题是，你认为观察动物界运动的极端情况作为了解我们人类运动实践的游戏空间和探索空间的一种方式是否有价值？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
I think so.
我想是的。
I think first, it's inspiring.
我认为首先，它是鼓舞人心的。
It opens up.
它打开了。
But I will take it away from the romantic point of view, and I would offer another way to examine.
但我会把它从浪漫的角度移开，我会提供另一种检验方式。
All these movements exist in us in ways, in certain ways, like the work of on the spine, the spinal engine, and to see how these old ways of moving, even all the way up to exoskeletons and primary, very ancient or even single cell things are still within us to a certain extent.
所有这些运动都以某种方式存在于我们体内，就像脊柱、脊椎发动机的工作一样，看看这些古老的运动方式，甚至一直到外骨骼和原始的、非常古老的、甚至单细胞的东西，在某种程度上仍然存在于我们体内。
Then, of course, this gets developed.
然后，当然，这就会得到发展。
The Darwinian state of mind got stuck for many years on the survival of the fetus.
达尔文主义的心态多年来一直停留在胎儿的生存上。
But actually, I always believed in, and I saw some information about it lately, that mutation is the heart of the model, not survival of the fetus.
但实际上，我一直相信，而且我最近看到了一些相关信息，突变是模型的核心，而不是胎儿的生存。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
People often hear the word mutation and they think mutations are bad.
人们经常听到突变这个词，他们认为突变是不好的。
There are maladaptive mutations and then there are adaptive mutations, for sure.
当然，有适应不良突变，也有适应性突变。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
It displaces the word "change" in the heart of it, what it wants to do, change.
它取代了它核心的“改变”这个词，它想做的就是改变。
It does not want to become better.
它不想变得更好。
There is an inherent change in it, and then of course they become better at X, Y, Z, fittest, is the secondary perspective that arrives in relation to certain things.
其中有一个内在的变化，然后当然他们在X、Y、Z方面变得更好，最适合，是与某些事物相关的次要视角。
But there is still a stronger, more ancient driving force into the process.
但这一过程中仍然存在着更强大、更古老的驱动力。
For me, this is cool to see these animals take it all the way to this extreme, but it's also still reflecting within us.
对我来说，看到这些动物把它做到如此极端是很酷的，但这也仍然反映在我们身上。
I love to do, for example, I introduce with people spinal waves and by bringing these waves into the body, sometimes you get weird experiences like emotional releases and other times it can become an incredible tool to help an athlete which specialized and reached the top of the top and then you defrag his system a little bit and offer him some freshness and some segmental movement, and first you fuck him up.
例如，我喜欢做的事情是，我向人们介绍脊椎波，通过将这些波带入体内，有时你会得到奇怪的体验，比如情绪释放，有时它可以成为一个令人难以置信的工具，帮助一个专业化并达到顶峰的运动员，然后你稍微整理一下他的系统，为他提供一些新鲜感和一些分段运动，然后你首先把他搞砸了。
That's usually the case.
通常情况就是这样。
Technically he's off, his coordination is off, but later the growth will arrive.
从技术上来说，他已经不行了，他的协调性也已经不行了，但稍后成长就会到来。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
It's a form of playfulness, it's a form of examining things regardless of their success or failure, more understanding that change is important.
这是一种玩乐的形式，是一种审视事物的形式，无论其成功或失败，更多地理解改变的重要性。
Then after that we can also look at the more competitive state of mind and the more success and failure orientation.
然后我们还可以看更多的竞争心态和更多的成功与失败导向。
But there is no game without change.
但没有变化就没有游戏。
This is the primary one and that's why I say, okay, you want to succeed in the tasks, like we did earlier, but you stayed within the game to sustain the game, the infinite versus finite game perspective.
这是首要的，这就是为什么我说，好吧，你想在任务中取得成功，就像我们之前所做的那样，但你留在游戏中以维持游戏，无限与有限的游戏视角。
To sustain the game means to continue to change, continue to transform.
维持游戏意味着持续改变、持续转型。
Then to win the game sometimes mean game over.
然后，赢得比赛有时就意味着比赛结束。
Within that tension, I think it's beautiful to play and to exist and to be.
在这种张力中，我认为玩耍、存在和存在都是美好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You mentioned something that for me is an incredibly important concept for a couple of reasons and you mentioned these spinal waves.
你提到了一些对我来说是一个非常重要的概念，原因有几个，你提到了这些脊髓波。
I have to assume that's taking the torso, for us movement morons, I'll just refer to in course terms, instead of thoracic spine.
我必须假设这是躯干，对于我们运动白痴来说，我只是在课程术语中提及，而不是胸椎。
I mean, we'll stay away from the technical anatomy.
我的意思是，我们将远离技术剖析。
The torso and creating movement either side to side, undulation or arching and extension of the spine.
躯干并产生左右运动、起伏或拱形以及脊柱的伸展。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Dorsal, ventral, side to side, rotational as well, spiraling
背侧、腹侧、左右、旋转、螺旋
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Have you ever had the experience of yourself or other people engaging those types of movements and experiencing particular categories of emotions?
您是否有过自己或其他人参与这些类型的动作并经历特定类别的情绪的经历？
I have a particular reason for asking this.
我问这个问题是有特殊原因的。
There's no right or wrong answer, of course, but I'm just curious whether or not movement of, let's call it the core of the body, things close to the midline as opposed to far away from the midline, like the digits.
当然，没有正确或错误的答案，但我只是好奇是否有运动，我们称之为身体的核心，靠近中线的东西，而不是远离中线的东西，比如数字。
Do you have any evidence that that can evoke a certain category of emotional states?
你有任何证据表明这可以唤起某种类型的情绪状态吗？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Evidence, I have none, but I have experience and I have some thoughts about it.
证据，我没有，但我有经验，我对此有一些想法。
Ida Rolf is known to have created Rolfing or structural integration, said the issues are in the tissues.
众所周知，艾达·罗尔夫（Ida Rolf）创造了罗尔芬（Rolfing）或结构整合，他说问题出在组织中。
The spine is us, as you know.
如你所知，脊柱就是我们。
You can take an arm off, a limb.
你可以砍掉一只手臂，一条肢体。
There's been attempts but there is no brainy alone, this cerebral thing alone.
尝试过，但没有单独的大脑，只有大脑的东西。
The spine and the maybe more parts and systems inside the torso are important.
脊柱以及躯干内可能更多的部分和系统都很重要。
That's why I like to start from that core entity.
这就是为什么我喜欢从核心实体开始。
Then these little fluctuations, they unblock things, that they start to move things, and you can avoid, funny enough, mobilizing those areas by doing big frame motions and competitive motions and techniques all your life.
然后这些小小的波动，它们会解除障碍，开始移动物体，有趣的是，你可以通过一生中进行大框架运动和竞争性运动和技巧来避免调动这些区域。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Most yogis, for example, they look extremely mobile.
例如，大多数瑜伽修行者看起来都非常活跃。
But then when you're actually going into what I call the small frame ...
但当你真正进入我所说的小框架时......
I borrowed this from Chinese martial arts, small frame, big frame, the big frame is these big changes of our total body in space posture.
我借用了中国武术的这个，小架，大架，大架就是我们整个身体在空间姿势上的这些大的变化。
Then the small frame is barely moving but mobilizing the little bits that comprise the same pretty much posture.
然后这个小框架几乎没有移动，但调动了组成几乎相同姿势的小部分。
These are very beneficial, and it has totally disappeared from our physical culture.
这些都是非常有益的，而且它已经从我们的体育文化中完全消失了。
When you introduce it back, the small frame offers the big frame, but the big frame doesn't offer the small frame because, of course, the small detail come together into the big picture.
当你介绍回来的时候，小框架提供了大框架，但是大框架不提供小框架，因为当然，小细节汇集到大画面中。
If I want to place my body in a specific position and I have all these bits moving well, I can construct it in whatever way I want.
如果我想将我的身体放在一个特定的位置，并且我让所有这些部分都移动良好，我可以按照我想要的任何方式构建它。
But if I just work on the big one, most chances are I just mobilize certain areas while other areas are totally held or blocked and then I'm specialized one more time.
但如果我只做大事，很可能我只是动员某些区域，而其他区域则完全被控制或封锁，然后我又专业化了一次。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Take me out of this realm and I'll have difficulties.
带我离开这个领域，我会遇到困难。
What will sit there in this stagnation and motion?
在这种停滞和运动中将会有什么？
Material, thoughts, traumas.
物质、思想、创伤。
That's why people get discharges.
这就是人们出院的原因。
The memory is not what we think it is.
记忆并不是我们想象的那样。
That's how I believe.
我就是这么相信的。
It is stored in everywhere, and I've had those experiences.
它无处不在，我也有过这样的经历。
A lot of people have the opposite.
很多人的情况恰恰相反。
When a certain emotion is evoked, they start to undulate the spine.
当某种情绪被唤起时，它们开始使脊柱起伏。
This can be worked from this direction or from this direction, and I believe by applying such a practice, it is wise, you basically turn over the land and you are allowing things to shift.
这可以从这个方向或从这个方向开始，我相信通过应用这样的做法，这是明智的，你基本上翻转了土地，你让事情发生了变化。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
You are allowing things to shift and to move and to adapt, so I highly recommend it.
你允许事物发生变化、移动和适应，所以我强烈推荐它。
We teach it in a very elaborate and gradual way.
我们以非常详尽和渐进的方式教授它。
This is needed really because people, when they just go into some general recommendation, they usually just get stuck into a new pattern.
这确实是必要的，因为当人们只是接受一些一般性的建议时，他们通常会陷入一种新的模式。
"That's spinal wave.
“那是脊髓波。
Okay, that's it."
好吧，就这样了。”
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
I've been using, again, the slice and dice, teaching dozens of systems of moving the torso until a person is freed to really move the torso.
我一直在使用切片和骰子，教授数十种移动躯干的系统，直到一个人能够自由地真正移动躯干。
The language is created, the small enough units are created in your understanding from all these systems, and then you improvise.
语言被创建，足够小的单元被创建在你对所有这些系统的理解中，然后你即兴创作。
You reach the highest level of the practice.
你达到了修行的最高水平。
PART 2 OF 5 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 2 部分（共 5 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
I love the answer.
我喜欢这个答案。
Let me tell you a bit of why I asked.
让我告诉你我为什么问这个问题。
There's a principle in neuroscience, but especially in neuroevolution, they call it evo-devo, sometimes evolution and development, how those link.
神经科学中有一个原则，特别是在神经进化中，他们称之为“evo-devo”，有时是“进化”和“发展”，以及它们之间的联系。
We have motor neurons, as you know, but for the audience, that live in our spinal cord that cause transmission and contraction of the muscles, allow us to move our limbs.
如您所知，我们有运动神经元，但对于观众来说，它们生活在我们的脊髓中，导致肌肉的传输和收缩，使我们能够移动四肢。
And then we have motor neurons up here called upper motor neurons that control the motor lower ones.
然后我们这里有运动神经元，称为上运动神经元，控制下运动神经元。
Once something is reflexive or learned, we're not thinking about it, so to speak.
可以这么说，一旦某件事是反射性的或习得的，我们就不会去思考它。
We mainly use the lower motor neurons.
我们主要使用下运动神经元。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We know this because you can do an experiment ...
我们知道这一点是因为你可以做一个实验......
It's a rather barbaric experiment, but it's been done many times called creating a decerebrate cat.
这是一个相当野蛮的实验，但它已经被做了很多次，称为创造一只去大脑的猫。
You actually remove the neocortex, and these cats will walk on a treadmill.
你实际上移除了新皮质，这些猫就会在跑步机上行走。
It's called fictive motion.
这称为虚构运动。
No problem at all.
完全没问题。
There are human beings who don't have a neocortex or much of their neocortex is missing, they generate perfectly fine movement.
有些人没有新皮质或大部分新皮质缺失，但他们能产生完美的精细运动。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
The pattern has been downloaded.
图案已下载。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's right, and it's truly downloaded into the spine and the connection between the spine and muscles.
没错，而且是真正下载到了脊柱以及脊柱和肌肉的连接处。
Now the motor neurons that control the spinal waves, as you call them, are of a particular category.
现在，控制脊髓波的运动神经元（正如你们所说的那样）属于特定类别。
They have a molecular signature, a physiological signature.
它们有分子特征、生理特征。
They were identified by, he's dead now, a biologist at Columbia University named Tom Jessell, and many of his scientific offspring.
它们是由哥伦比亚大学的一位名叫汤姆·杰塞尔的生物学家和他的许多科学后代识别出来的，他现在已经去世了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Here's what's interesting in fish or in animals that really only have the opportunity to undulate and flap their little fins, though motor neurons that control undulation in those animals are identical molecularly to the motor neurons that control the spinal undulation in humans.
这就是鱼类或动物中有趣的地方，它们实际上只有机会起伏和拍打它们的小鳍，尽管这些动物中控制波动的运动神经元在分子上与人类控制脊柱波动的运动神经元相同。
What's been added in human evolution are extra rows, literally categories of molecularly distinct neurons, so that as you move from the center of the body outward, unlike a fish which can move its fins, but can't actually arti ...
人类进化中增加的是额外的行，字面上是分子上不同的神经元的类别，因此当你从身体中心向外移动时，不像鱼可以移动它的鳍，但实际上不能人工移动......
it doesn't have digits.
它没有数字。
We have special motor neurons to move these little bits, these bits, these bits.
我们有特殊的运动神经元来移动这些小点、这些点、这些点。
I can't do a spinal wave, but I can do the mudras thing, the belly thing.
我不会做脊椎波，但我可以做手印、腹部的事情。
That comes from seeing the movie ET when I was a kid and puffing out my stomach and then realizing that I could wave it, but only in one direction, apparently not up.
这来自于我小时候看电影《外星人》时，我挺起肚子，然后意识到我可以挥动它，但只能朝一个方向，显然不能向上。
Anyway, the yogis out there can chuckle at that, but ...
无论如何，那里的瑜伽修行者可能会对此发笑，但是......
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
The yogis actually do it to the side.
瑜伽修行者实际上是在侧面做的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, do they?
哦，是吗？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know if I can do that.
我不知道我是否能做到这一点。
Anyway, my spinal wave is weak, but I'll work on it.
无论如何，我的脊椎电波很弱，但我会努力的。
But what I find so interesting about these layers of, I don't want to say sophistication, but with evolution came the addition of more pools of opportunity.
但我发现这些层次如此有趣，我不想说其复杂性，但随着进化而来的是更多机会的增加。
These motor neuron pools, as they're called, they're opportunity to engage in new, more elaborate types of movement.
这些运动神经元池，正如它们的名字，是参与新的、更复杂的运动类型的机会。
With each new pool came the opportunity to create combinations of new movement.
每个新池都有创造新动作组合的机会。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The reason I asked you why spinal waves create one category of movement is that if you touch a fish on one side of its body, it moves to the opposite side.
我问你为什么脊椎波会产生一种运动的原因是，如果你触摸鱼身体的一侧，它就会移动到另一侧。
It never moves toward it.
它永远不会走向它。
But earlier we were doing a practice somewhat similar of testing this similar reflex, and sometimes I or someone will move toward a touch.
但早些时候我们做了一个有点类似的练习来测试这种类似的反射，有时我或某人会走向触摸。
We don't deviate to the opposite side.
我们不会偏向对立面。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have this untested, at least formally tested, hypothesis that movements of small digits and portions of our distal, as they're called — far from the midline — body parts evoke different sensations, maybe even far more subtle sensations than movements of the core of our body and the stuff closer to the spine.
我有一个未经测试（至少是正式测试过）的假设，即小手指和我们远端部分（远离中线）的运动会引起不同的感觉，甚至可能比我们身体核心和靠近脊柱的东西的运动更微妙的感觉。
Again, it's just a theory, but I'm grateful for your answer because it lands at least in the general vector direction of my idea here.
再说一次，这只是一个理论，但我很感激你的回答，因为它至少落在我的想法的总体向量方向上。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
The central orientation is mostly gone from our culture.
中心导向基本上已经从我们的文化中消失了。
We don't even walk, basically, these days.
这些天我们基本上都不走路了。
If you look at traditional culture, the amount of walking you do on a rest day ...
如果你看看传统文化，你在休息日的步行量......
It's huge.
它是巨大的。
We started to create technologies to bring everything into the periphery, controlling it with the fingertips, et cetera.
我们开始创造技术，将一切带入外围，用指尖控制等等。
We have incredible neurological development relating to this, but our central patterns, swimming, running, jumping, throwing.
我们拥有与此相关的令人难以置信的神经系统发育，但我们的中心模式是游泳、跑步、跳跃、投掷。
Throwing is not pushing away.
扔并不是推开。
That's an example, right?
这是一个例子，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people, when you give them a ball to throw, you can tell if they've never thrown a ball before.
有些人，当你给他们一个球让他们投掷时，你可以看出他们以前是否从未投过球。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
They throw like a girl.
他们像女孩一样投球。
That is often said here in the U.S. It's, of course, unfair, but it relates to experience, that this is less maybe promoted or offered for females.
在美国这里经常这样说。当然，这是不公平的，但这与经验有关，这对于女性来说可能不太提倡或提供。
You get this peripheral pattern instead of a central generated pattern that progresses towards the extremities.
您会得到这种外围模式，而不是向四肢发展的中心生成模式。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
One thing I wanted to ask you is, an area that is not often mentioned is that some of these ancient patterns and systems are primary in many ways.
我想问你的一件事是，一个不常被提及的领域是，其中一些古老的模式和系统在很多方面都是主要的。
Hence, those newer developments inside of us are constrained by using the connections running through these ancient systems.
因此，我们内部的那些新发展受到使用贯穿这些古老系统的连接的限制。
Hence, we are much more limited by the gene pool.
因此，我们受到基因库的限制更大。
We are hitchhikers on a piece of DNA, I like to say.
我想说，我们是 DNA 片段的搭便车者。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
That gene pool is driving something so primary that even when you are in the driver's seat in your eyes, you're actually not, or you're being totally constrained by that.
基因库正在驱动一些如此重要的东西，即使你在你眼中坐在驾驶座上，你实际上也不是，或者你完全受到它的限制。
I wanted to hear about this.
我想听听这个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Recently we had a guest on the podcast named Erich Jarvis.
最近，我们的播客上邀请了一位名叫埃里希·贾维斯（Erich Jarvis）的嘉宾。
He's a professor at Rockefeller who was offered a position to dance with the Alvin Ailey dance company, an accomplished dancer and comes from a musical family, chose to become a neuroscientist instead and studied speech and language.
他是洛克菲勒大学的一名教授，曾获得阿尔文·艾利舞蹈团的舞蹈职位，他是一位出色的舞者，出身于音乐世家，但他选择成为一名神经科学家，研究言语和语言。
He said something incredible, several incredible things, really looking forward to getting your reflections on.
他说了一些令人难以置信的事情，几件令人难以置信的事情，真的很期待得到你的反思。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
First of all, he said that when you look at the species in the kingdom of animals, including us, that have elaborate language and true song, they all also have the capacity to dance.
首先，他说，你看动物王国里的物种，包括我们，有精致的语言和真实的歌声，它们也都有跳舞的能力。
It turns out hummingbirds actually have a dance and a song capacity that perhaps, and this is the going idea now in neuroscience and evolution of the brain, that singing actually came before finally articulated speech and language.
事实证明，蜂鸟实际上具有跳舞和唱歌的能力，这也许是神经科学和大脑进化中现在流行的想法，唱歌实际上是在最终清晰的言语和语言之前出现的。
That voice evolved first to sing to communicate, I mean to enunciate Ugh or Uh or Mmm, but then song may have come first.
这种声音首先进化为通过唱歌来交流，我的意思是发出“呃”或“呃”或“嗯”的声音，但歌曲可能是先出现的。
Where you have song, you have dance and the capacity to dance, which of course is movement of the body.
哪里有歌曲，哪里就有舞蹈，并且有跳舞的能力，这当然是身体的运动。
Where you have song and dance, you always find that those species can generate elaborate language.
凡是有歌舞的地方，你总会发现这些物种能产生复杂的语言。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now the simple version of this is, okay, sophisticated brains tend to create clusters of sophisticated capabilities.
现在的简单版本是，好吧，复杂的大脑往往会创建复杂功能的集群。
But the other possibility, and it's the one that Jarvis proposes, and I think it's in line with what you're perhaps raising here, is the idea that movement of the body and range and sophistication of movement of the body through all these different systems may have actually promoted or even driven the evolution of the things that we think of as speech and language and the ability to have multiple words for the same concept or to have elaborate articulation of speech.
但另一种可能性，也就是贾维斯提出的可能性，我认为它与你在这里提出的可能是一致的，那就是身体的运动以及身体通过所有这些不同系统运动的范围和复杂性实际上可能促进甚至驱动了我们所认为的言语和语言的进化，以及为同一概念使用多个单词或详细表达言语的能力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I find this incredibly attractive as an idea because certainly as a hierarchy of needs, we needed to move first to survive and to made and to flee and to attack.
我发现这个想法非常有吸引力，因为当然作为需求层次，我们需要首先行动才能生存、制造、逃离和攻击。
It makes perfect sense to me that the layers would be built up fundamentally from the body to the mind and not the other way around.
对我来说，完全有道理的是，这些层次将从根本上从身体到心灵建立起来，而不是相反。
That's one piece.
那是一件。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The other piece, which I'll just share for any reflections you might have, that just blew me away, was Jarvis told me that when we read, and this has been done experimentally, if one records the EMG, the low-level muscular activity in the larynx and pharynx, we are actually repeating the words that we read, but so subtly so that we don't actually speak them out unless there's some sort of neurologic deficit, which some people have.
另一篇让我震惊的文章是贾维斯告诉我的，当我们阅读时，这是通过实验完成的，如果记录肌电图，即喉部和咽部的低水平肌肉活动，我们实际上是在重复我们读到的单词，但非常微妙，以至于我们实际上不会说出来，除非有某种神经系统缺陷，而有些人有这种缺陷。
Some people mumble while they read.
有些人读书时会咕哝。
But what that tells me is that language is movement and movement is language.
但这告诉我的是，语言就是运动，运动就是语言。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Again, we have this convergence, but at a very basic level, I'd love your reflections on ...
再说一次，我们有这种趋同，但在一个非常基本的层面上，我希望你能反思......
Those are all his ideas, I want to say.
我想说，这都是他的想法。
I'm just repeating what he said and not nearly as precisely as he did, but how do you think of movement as either the foundation of language or as its own language that perhaps even defies words?
我只是重复他所说的话，但并不像他说的那么精确，但是你如何看待运动作为语言的基础，或者作为它自己的语言，甚至可能藐视言语？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Wow, those are beautiful perspectives and I definitely feel the same.
哇，这些都是美丽的视角，我也有同样的感觉。
There's a lot to say about singing and dancing as well also as a form of ancient programs of transmission.
关于歌唱和舞蹈以及古代传播节目的一种形式，有很多话要说。
Sometimes there is these, in some ancient practices, the mantras.
有时，在一些古老的实践中，有这些咒语。
People don't realize that they are tantric practices.
人们没有意识到它们是密宗修行。
They contain a form of vibrating and breathing all tied together into a very elaborate way to promote a certain effect.
它们包含一种振动和呼吸的形式，所有这些都以一种非常复杂的方式结合在一起，以促进某种效果。
How would you do something like this in ancient times?
在古代你会怎么做这样的事呢？
This is ingenious.
这很巧妙。
Even until today we need a full book to describe something like this and it wouldn't work as well.
即使直到今天我们也需要一本完整的书来描述这样的事情，但它也行不通。
It's like a very ancient form of transmission.
这就像一种非常古老的传播形式。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
The more accurate we became with the language, the more dead it became because it is less of a movement entity.
我们对语言的掌握越准确，它就越死气沉沉，因为它不再是一个运动实体。
It is less of a dynamic entity from its nature.
从本质上来说，它并不是一个动态实体。
That's why Yukio Mishima says it's corrupting.
这就是为什么三岛由纪夫说它正在腐败。
It corrupts us.
它腐蚀了我们。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Definitely, the conducing force or the primary force for me is movement that is experienced.
当然，对我来说，引导力或主要力量是体验到的运动。
Every time we talk about movement, basically even now we are spilling it into a container to call it what it is, but it is beyond that.
每次我们谈论运动时，基本上即使现在我们也将其倒入容器中以称呼它是什么，但它超出了这个范围。
Then it is applied into dancing, into singing, into language.
然后它被应用到舞蹈、歌唱、语言中。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
There is no other language that I see as a primary mode, and this is a nature of space, time, things moving.
我认为没有其他语言是主要模式，这是空间、时间和事物移动的本质。
I think everything moves into the direction of understanding that more and more, and maybe it's not so popular to call it movement, or people have some connotations.
我觉得一切都在朝着越来越了解的方向发展，也许现在还没有那么流行叫它运动，或者人们有一些内涵。
It's okay.
没关系。
You can throw away this word and put another word, and we probably need to do that also regularly.
你可以扔掉这个词并放入另一个词，我们可能也需要定期这样做。
I start to see the end of this word for me.
我开始看到这个词的结尾。
Things get corrupted again, overused, abused, and then we need a new word.
事物再次被破坏、过度使用、滥用，然后我们需要一个新词。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Even that word is only needed for communication and for specific processes of education, exchange.
即使这个词也只是在沟通和教育、交流的特定过程中才需要。
It's important to stay within the experiences.
留在体验中很重要。
It's important to continue to promote scenarios in which the experience is primary.
继续推广以体验为主的场景很重要。
More open experience, let's say, and not try to hold down and define overly accurately, or if it's done, throwing it away and starting again.
比方说，更开放的体验，而不是试图抑制和过于准确地定义，或者如果完成了，就扔掉它并重新开始。
There is no winning concept.
没有获胜的概念。
You got to the winning concept, you got nothing.
你得到了制胜的概念，但你一无所获。
You were able to grab it, you were able to ...
你能够抓住它，你能够......
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
This is very science, right?
这很科学，对吧？
"We got it, we got it." Then it turns out to be nothing.
“我们明白了，我们明白了。”然后结果就没什么了。
More and more time passes, I feel science is becoming more humble and things are being discussed in this way because really what the science do report that the sun came up certain amount of billions of times and then tomorrow it will come up again.
时间越来越长，我觉得科学变得越来越谦虚，事情正在以这种方式进行讨论，因为科学确实报告说太阳升起了数十亿次，然后明天它会再次升起。
Statistics.
统计数据。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it's good prediction.
是的，这是一个很好的预测。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yeah, but we can go beyond.
是的，但我们可以超越。
There is something inside of us that can go beyond.
我们内心有一些东西可以超越。
Hard to communicate.
很难沟通。
I can't offer it right now here, but I have the experience, and thankfully I have a practice and a way to sense it, to feel it, and to reexamine it, and then we can talk about it and have something from that.
我现在不能在这里提供它，但我有经验，值得庆幸的是，我有练习和方法来感知它，感受它，重新审视它，然后我们可以讨论它并从中得到一些东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Edward Wilson, the great sociobiologist, he actually founded the field of sociobiology, E.O.
爱德华·威尔逊（Edward Wilson），伟大的社会生物学家，他实际上创立了社会生物学领域，E.O.
Wilson, they call him Edward Wilson, had this beautiful word and indeed named a book.
威尔逊，他们叫他爱德华·威尔逊，有一个美丽的词，确实被命名为一本书。
Actually the word was better than the book, sorry, Wilson, but the book was a little bit meandering for my taste.
事实上，这个词比这本书更好，对不起，威尔逊，但这本书对我来说有点曲折。
But then again, he's the Harvard professor, not me.
但话又说回来，他是哈佛教授，不是我。
Well, Stanford's pretty darn good.
嗯，斯坦福大学相当不错。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This word is consilience.
这个词就是顺从。
This idea of a leaping together of divergent forms of knowledge to create a truly valuable concept, which I love.
我喜欢这种将不同形式的知识跨越在一起创造出真正有价值的概念的想法。
I love it because, of course, I'm formally trained as a scientist.
我喜欢它，当然，因为我接受过正式的科学家培训。
I look at things mainly through the lens of neuroscience, but experience is real and observation is real.
我主要通过神经科学的视角来看待事物，但经验是真实的，观察也是真实的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Even in the field of medicine, you have double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trials, and then you have case studies.
即使在医学领域，也有双盲安慰剂对照临床试验，然后有案例研究。
N-of-1, right?
N-of-1，对吗？
Not often discussed, right?
不常讨论，对吧？
H.M., the most famous example in neuroscience of a patient that had no hippocampus, informed us more about the process of memory and indeed the function of the hippocampus than thousands of independent experiments that followed.
H.M. 是神经科学领域最著名的例子，他的例子是一位没有海马体的患者，它比随后进行的数千个独立实验让我们更多地了解了记忆过程以及海马体的功能。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You can't have one.
你不能拥有一个。
You need all these different forms of exploration, which is ...
你需要所有这些不同形式的探索，这是......
I think we share the belief, if I may, that convergent forms of knowledge, eventually this process of consilience can eject a new concept.
我认为，如果可以的话，我们都相信知识的趋同形式，最终这个一致的过程可以推出一个新的概念。
Yet the challenge again is that if we don't have a language for it, it becomes hard to transmit.
然而，再次面临的挑战是，如果我们没有语言，它就很难传播。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of the things that I find incredibly, I'll use this word again, sticky, is this notion of movement culture.
我发现令人难以置信的事情之一，我将再次使用这个词，粘性，是运动文化的概念。
I don't know who coined that phrase.
我不知道这句话是谁创造的。
I've seen it in the circles and accounts around your Instagram account and others.
我在你的 Instagram 帐户和其他帐户周围的圈子和帐户中看到过它。
I don't know if that's a phrase that you coined, but this idea of engaging in movement practice with others, whether or not it's dance or other movement practices, because it's so dynamic.
我不知道这是否是你创造的一个短语，但与他人一起进行动作练习的想法，无论是舞蹈还是其他动作练习，因为它是如此充满活力。
There's the unpredictability of it.
这其中存在不可预测性。
Like today, two practitioners at vastly different levels of knowledge and experience in movement practice, there's information, I like to think, to be gained from both sides.
就像今天一样，两位练习者在运动练习中的知识和经验水平截然不同，我认为，可以从双方获得信息。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One thing that I've heard you say before, which really resonated with me is this idea that people maybe particularly in the U.S. have this concept of, "Oh, I have my yoga friends.
我以前听你说过一件事，这确实引起了我的共鸣，那就是人们可能特别是在美国有这样的概念：“哦，我有我的瑜伽朋友。
The people I dance with are distinct from my family friends." But as you pointed out, gathering around movement is an age-old tradition.
和我跳舞的人与我的家人朋友不同。”但正如你所指出的，围绕运动聚集是一个古老的传统。
Perhaps we're better off not thinking about people we exercise with or train with, but that friendship and connection made through movement is perhaps the most valuable form of connection.
也许我们最好不要考虑与我们一起锻炼或训练的人，但通过运动建立的友谊和联系可能是最有价值的联系形式。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yeah, I think it's a product of those practices that are maybe not so aware or not so movement-oriented in the open sense, and then you get this sensation with people, but alone we do nothing, so much so that we are never alone also on the inside, and we will manufacture and produce entities inside.
是的，我认为这是那些在开放意义上可能不那么有意识或不那么以运动为导向的实践的产物，然后你会与人们产生这种感觉，但独自一人我们什么也不做，以至于我们在内部也永远不会孤单，我们将在内部制造和生产实体。
We're constantly in a dynamic exchange, cultural exchange.
我们不断地处于动态的交流、文化交流中。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Practically, I learned this lesson in capoeira.
实际上，我在卡波耶拉中学到了这一课。
It's a cultural manifestation.
这是一种文化表现。
Things happen within this context.
事情就是在这样的背景下发生的。
We rub against reality.
我们与现实擦肩而过。
We rub against each other.
我们互相摩擦。
There movement occurs and there insight is to be gained and development happens and then comes other thoughts, collective knowledge versus self-knowledge.
运动发生，洞察力获得，发展发生，然后出现其他想法，集体知识与自我知识。
We are transmitting knowledge.
我们正在传播知识。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
If we go on top of some mountain, 20 people, 20 normal individuals, and we spend 20 years just fighting — four hours in the morning, four hours in the afternoon — and we do it for 20 years, but we're isolated from any other source of knowledge.
如果我们去一座山顶，20个人，20个正常人，我们花了20年的时间去奋斗——早上四个小时，下午四个小时——我们就这样奋斗了20年，但我们与任何其他知识来源隔绝了。
We would still not reach anything that a very young fighter these days has.
我们仍然无法达到当今非常年轻的战士所能达到的水平。
We will be unable to develop those techniques, those insights.
我们将无法开发那些技术、那些见解。
That's where collective knowledge comes in and transmission jumps us forward.
这就是集体知识发挥作用的地方，而传播则推动我们前进。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
But what is the problem with that?
但这有什么问题呢？
Staying within just those technical constraints and never making it yours.
仅限于这些技术限制，永远不要让它成为你的。
That's the part of self-knowledge.
这就是自我认识的一部分。
The digestion of this collective information until it becomes digested and becomes part of yourselves, and then you are it versus you are doing it.
消化这些集体信息，直到它被消化并成为你们自己的一部分，然后你就是它，而不是你正在做它。
This is a clear separation that you can see in sports on a very high level and on a not-so-high level.
这是一种明显的区别，你可以在很高水平和不太高水平的体育运动中看到这一点。
Even though I would be honest if I say that some people reach very far just with collective knowledge and a very technical approach, and others reach extremely far with very little of it.
尽管我会诚实地说，有些人仅凭借集体知识和非常技术性的方法就可以走得很远，而另一些人则只用很少的知识就可以走得很远。
There are always the outliers in that case.
在这种情况下总是存在异常值。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Another thought I had when you mentioned evo devo, evolution development, is also the Greek concepts of poiesis and physis, the growing of the seed into the tree, and the other process of the manufacturing of the chair from the tree.
当你提到evo devo（进化发展）时，我的另一个想法也是希腊的poiesis和phys概念，种子长成树，以及从树制造椅子的另一个过程。
Two processes of development, evolution, very different.
两个发展、演变的过程截然不同。
One from everything to something, the other from nothing to something.
一个是从一切到有，另一个是从无到有。
One is accumulation-based, one is subtraction-based.
一种是积累型，一种是减法型。
Both of these processes relate to collective knowledge, self-knowledge, but they're not exactly just that.
这两个过程都与集体知识、自我知识有关，但它们并不完全如此。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
What should we do?
我们应该做什么？
This is a question that my friend Erasmus, he asks in his thesis and thoughts, what is the ultimate for us?
这是我的朋友伊拉斯谟在他的论文和思想中提出的一个问题，对我们来说，终极是什么？
Should we manufacture our chair or should we grow into the tree?
我们应该制造椅子还是应该长成树？
Civilize the mind, leave savage the body.
文明心灵，离开野蛮身体。
Is it in this way or should the mind also be left wild and wise?
是这样还是心也应该保持狂野和智慧？
This is a nice combination of words that I like to place together wild, wise.
这是一个很好的词组合，我喜欢将它们组合在一起，狂野、明智。
This is something that I try to bring into the way that I live my life and my practice.
这是我试图将其带入我的生活方式和实践中的东西。
I try to bring the information and the wisdom and the collective knowledge, but I also try to let go of more and more until an essence is gleaned, until something is appearing, because everything was already there.
我尝试带来信息、智慧和集体知识，但我也尝试放弃越来越多的东西，直到收集到本质，直到出现一些东西，因为一切都已经在那里了。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
For example, if I'm sitting here, all the movements are already occurring.
例如，如果我坐在这里，所有的动作都已经发生了。
All the possibilities ...
所有的可能性...
It's just about ...
这只是关于...
I open this window, the air would come from here.
我打开这扇窗户，空气就会从这里进来。
If I opened this window, the air would come.
如果我打开这扇窗户，空气就会进来。
I don't need to drive my motion.
我不需要驱动我的动作。
I need to discover what is stopping it from happening.
我需要找出是什么阻止了它的发生。
Something is constantly holding, and when we remove this, immediately movement appears.
有些东西一直在固定，当我们移除它时，就会立即出现运动。
This is real deep movement versus the driven movement that is very wasteful of times like walking.
这是真正的深度运动，而不是像步行这样非常浪费时间的驱动运动。
You see people pushing through the walk instead of the controlled falling that it should be.
你会看到人们在人行道上推着走，而不是应有的受控跌倒。
Fighting, punching, to manufacture the strength, and then to have someone who knows how to facilitate the conditions in which you are knocked out, it doesn't knock you out.
打斗、出拳、制造力量，然后有人知道如何促进你被击倒的条件，但它不会击倒你。
It hits versus I hit like Bruce Lee, he said.
他说，它的打击与我像李小龙那样的打击不同。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
This is a beautiful thing to examine and to work within that.
检查并在其中工作是一件美好的事情。
To see, am I skateboarding?
看看我是在玩滑板吗？
Am I using this perspective, or am I trying to control because of risk and danger?
我是在使用这种观点，还是因为风险和危险而试图控制？
I'm trying to overly control something that actually can never be controlled.
我试图过度控制一些实际上永远无法控制的事情。
The way to control it is to let go of the control and then, "Okay, but what about all this collection of information knowledge that I can bring in?
控制它的方法是放开控制，然后，“好吧，但是我可以带入的所有这些信息知识集合又如何呢？
Where do I want to play?
我想去哪里玩？
I can play down here or I can play up here."
我可以在这里打球，也可以在这里打球。”
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
The collective knowledge is, maybe take you further in and then you're still going to need to do your individual work.
集体知识也许会让你更深入，然后你仍然需要做你的个人工作。
A lot of people like to romanticize on that, "You don't need teachers, we don't need nothing.
很多人喜欢浪漫化这一点，“你不需要老师，我们什么都不需要。
We don't need information." It's not fully honest that you don't need, but depends on where you want to function and how you want to function.
我们不需要信息。”您并不需要，这并不完全诚实，而是取决于您想要在哪里工作以及如何工作。
They shouldn't be demonized, but they shouldn't be overly glorified as well.
他们不应该被妖魔化，但也不应该被过度美化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You mentioned about the opportunity for movement, perhaps even all forms of movement coming from deep within.
你提到了运动的机会，甚至可能是来自内心深处的所有形式的运动。
It raises to mind in the neuroscience of motor systems, we talk about motor neurons as I described, the ones that actually evoke contraction of muscles.
它让人想起运动系统的神经科学，正如我所描述的那样，我们谈论运动神经元，它们实际上引起肌肉收缩。
And then there's this category of neurons that isn't often discussed but certainly exists, aren't often discussed in popular nomenclature of neuroscience, which is the premotor system.
还有一类神经元，虽然不经常讨论，但确实存在，在神经科学的流行术语中不经常讨论，这就是前运动系统。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Most of our movements are the reflection of certain patterns of transmission breaking through from the premotor to the actual motor.
我们的大多数运动都是从前电机到实际电机的某些传输模式的反映。
In other words, we are always in anticipatory mode of movement.
换句话说，我们总是处于预期的运动模式。
I think the way you describe it, you clearly intuitively understand this, you feel it and you recognize it.
我认为你描述它的方式，你清楚地直观地理解了这一点，你感觉到了它，你认识到了它。
Think of it like a layer of neurons that's constantly humming, ready to go, and it's the release of these gates that allows movement to occur in a particular way.
把它想象成一层不断嗡嗡作响、准备就绪的神经元，正是这些门的释放才允许运动以特定的方式发生。
It could be very smooth.
它可能会非常顺利。
Yeah, could be very ballistic.
是的，可能会非常暴躁。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Which is DNA, the same, turning off ...
这是 DNA，相同，关闭...
but all the information is already there and then the possibilities are just allowed.
但所有的信息都已经存在，然后可能性就被允许了。
I am allowed.
我被允许了。
I don't do free will already, but I am allowed to do.
我还没有自由意志，但我被允许这样做。
There are possibilities, and I am dancing within that dance, but I am not the only dancer.
可能性是有的，我在舞蹈中跳舞，但我不是唯一的舞者。
That's my sensation, at least with most states of being, let's say.
这是我的感觉，至少在大多数状态下是这样。
Maybe there are other states that could be reached, stability that will arrive from the waters, from the movement of the waters.
也许还有其他可以达到的状态，从水域、从水域的运动可以达到稳定。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
This humming, these potential possibilities to be in that state, to vibrate like this is very powerful for our lives, to wake up in the morning and feel that living thing is the feeling of movement.
这种嗡嗡声，这些处于那种状态的潜在可能性，像这样的振动对我们的生活来说非常强大，让我们早上醒来，感觉到生物就是运动的感觉。
For me, it's a result of the practice.
对我来说，这是练习的结果。
Then it's easy not to stagnate and then the mind can stay focused for hours like we've done today.
然后就很容易不停滞不前，然后头脑就可以像我们今天所做的那样保持专注几个小时。
I can listen and tune in and I won't lose you, which is very difficult.
我可以倾听并收听并且不会失去你，这是非常困难的。
I haven't had a good conversation here in the U.S. It's very difficult.
我在美国没有进行过很好的交谈，这非常困难。
I've had your attention and you're listening, but it's rare.
我引起了你的注意，你也在听，但这种情况很少见。
It's rare that somebody can do that, and it's a struggle, always a struggle, but it's definitely my trick, my dirty trick.
很少有人能做到这一点，这是一场斗争，永远是一场斗争，但这绝对是我的把戏，我的肮脏把戏。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You said you're allowed, and again, I'm taking some of the language and what you report about your experience and trying to map it to some concepts that relate to neural circuits.
你说你被允许了，我再次采用一些语言和你报告的有关你的经历的内容，并尝试将其映射到与神经回路相关的一些概念。
In the principles of neuroscience, we talk about instructiveness versus permissiveness.
在神经科学原理中，我们谈论指导性与宽容性。
There are instructive cues, for instance the ability to pick up this pen, right?
有一些指导性的线索，例如拿起这支笔的能力，对吗？
There's an instruction.
有一个指示。
Clearly, there's a motor command, but that's just one way of looking at it.
显然，存在一个运动命令，但这只是看待它的一种方式。
The way it actually works is that there's a premotor system that's already generating that movement, and what we've done is we've flung open the gate and allowed that movement to occur precisely.
它实际工作的方式是，有一个前运动系统已经在产生该运动，而我们所做的就是打开大门并允许该运动精确地发生。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Surfing it.
冲浪吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Surfing that current or this current or another current or opening the window.
冲浪那个电流或这个电流或另一个电流或打开窗户。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly.
正是如此。
If you look at the formal study of movement and improvement of movement, the most basic example I can give is a tennis serve.
如果你看看对运动和运动改进的正式研究，我能给出的最基本的例子就是网球发球。
They've done this many times over, you map the trajectories, and in a novice, the lines are all over the place.
他们已经做过很多次了，你绘制轨迹，对于新手来说，线条遍布各处。
It ends up looking more like a tangle of rubber band ball, right?
它最终看起来更像是一团缠在一起的橡皮筋球，对吗？
Whereas in the Federer, or the expert, you almost wonder if it's just one line being drawn, but the trajectories are incredibly stereotyped.
而在费德勒或专家身上，你几乎想知道这是否只是一条被画出来的线，但轨迹却是令人难以置信的刻板印象。
That's the reflection of one little narrow gate opening again and again and again.
那是一扇狭窄的小门一次又一次打开的反映。
Of course-
当然——
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Let me inject something here from an old neurologist, you can say, Bernstein, the Soviet.
让我在这里注入一位老神经学家的东西，你可以说，伯恩斯坦，苏联人。
He talked about degrees of freedom, and they did in order to increase productivity in Soviet Union, I don't know if you've heard this story.
他谈到自由度，他们这样做是为了提高苏联的生产力，我不知道你是否听说过这个故事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No.
不。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
He was brought in to examine the movement habits of the workers and he collected some information.
他被带进来检查工人的行动习惯，并收集了一些信息。
He was one of the first kinetic ...
他是最早的动力...
I don't know how it's called in English, the kinetic capturing of motion with moving pictures in that time.
我不知道英文怎么称呼，当时用电影动态捕捉运动。
He placed these thoughts and they took these photos, which became kind of a movie.
他把这些想法放在心上，他们拍了这些照片，这些照片就成了一部电影。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
What he discovered was something very interesting.
他发现了一些非常有趣的事情。
The accuracy of the heat of the sledge hammer increased while the variance in the various points became more, not less.
大锤的热量精度提高了，而各个点的差异却变得更大，而不是更少。
It wasn't a fixed pattern.
这不是一个固定的模式。
It was a meta pattern.
这是一个元模式。
This pattern is adjusted in this way to achieve the perfect execution.
这个图案就是这样调整的，以达到完美的执行。
Those were very early findings.
这些都是非常早期的发现。
I'm not sure how does that sit with everything, but I'm sure there is some truth to it from my experience.
我不确定这与所有事情有何关系，但我确信从我的经验来看，这是有一定道理的。
Basically the self-adjusting dynamic nature of the system allows you to reach a very constant and stable end result by being so open and letting go of your control.
基本上，系统的自我调节动态特性使您可以通过开放并放弃控制来达到非常稳定的最终结果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The example you give fits very well with the one that I described before because I'm recalling the experiment, if people want to look this up, it's a paper.
你给出的例子和我之前描述的例子非常吻合，因为我回想起那个实验，如果人们想查的话，这是一篇论文。
We'll put it in the show note caption.
我们会将其放在节目注释标题中。
A guy also happens to be at Harvard named Bence P.
碰巧还有一个人在哈佛大学，名叫本斯·P.
Ölveczky, Hungarian.
奥尔韦茨基，匈牙利人。
I'm clearly pronouncing his name wrong, but I know Bence.
我显然把他的名字念错了，但我认识本斯。
I remember the slide in my mind's eye.
我的脑海里还记得那张幻灯片。
The trajectory that was mapped was the movement of the tennis racket, not of the limbs themselves, in the Federer case.
在费德勒的例子中，绘制的轨迹是网球拍的运动，而不是肢体本身。
That aligns well with what you're describing those.
这与您所描述的内容非常吻合。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That exploration of degrees of freedom is where the opportunity for real advancement and expansion of skill shows up.
对自由度的探索是真正进步和扩展技能的机会出现的地方。
I think the way it's been described to me is that we go from unskilled to skilled, and then there's mastery, and then there's this top tier, which is this beautiful thin layer that so few people occupy, which is virtuosity in which the practitioner invites variability and chance back in as an opportunity to do truly new things.
我认为向我描述的方式是，我们从不熟练到熟练，然后是精通，然后是这个顶层，这是一个很少有人占据的美丽的薄层，这是实践者邀请可变性和机会回来作为做真正新事物的机会的精湛技艺。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
It made me think many years ago, this kind of thinking about, what is that entity?
很多年前就让我思考过，这样的思考，那个实体是什么？
Obviously it's not technique, and it wouldn't even be honest to say it's a movement pattern.
显然这不是技术，甚至说这是一种动作模式也不诚实。
There is too much diversity there.
那里有太多的多样性。
I started to talk about, I called it movement sleeves or meta technique, but the word technique is already misleading.
我开始谈论，我称之为运动袖子或元技术，但技术这个词已经具有误导性。
There is some kind of a dynamic sleeve in which you can move.
有一种动态套筒可以让你在其中移动。
As long as you're not out of this sleeve, you are still within the boundaries of achieving the result that you're after.
只要您没有脱离这个袖子，您仍然在实现您所追求的结果的范围内。
And then the result is adaptation of all these elements inside to-
然后结果是内部所有这些元素的适应-
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
There is all this adaptation of all these elements inside to keep you in the sleeve.
所有这些元素的所有这些改编都在里面，让你保持在袖子里。
The sleeve is not constricted as we once thought, "Oh, beautiful technique." There are many ways to skin a cat, and that experience and that variety, that diversity goes into virtuosity.
袖子并不像我们曾经想象的那样收缩，“哦，美丽的技术。”给猫剥皮的方法有很多种，而这种经验和多样性、多样性会转化为精湛的技艺。
It's true freedom because your focus is on the right thing.
这是真正的自由，因为你的注意力集中在正确的事情上。
You don't point at the moon look at your finger.
你不会用手指指着月亮。
And that's really, in essence, being a virtuoso for me, like mastery, let's say, if there is such a thing.
从本质上讲，这对我来说确实是一位艺术大师，就像精通一样，假设有这样的事情的话。
PART 3 OF 5 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 3 部分（共 5 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
Well I do believe there is such a thing and I'll flatter and attempt to embarrass you by saying I think that I'm not alone in viewing you as a virtuoso of movement.
好吧，我确实相信有这样的事情，我会奉承你并试图让你难堪，说我认为我并不是唯一一个将你视为运动大师的人。
I think that's what comes to mind, because there's this notion that not everything is preplanned.
我想这就是我想到的，因为有这样一种观念，即并非一切都是预先计划好的。
That even you might not know what you're going to do next until the moment of execution.
即使你在执行的那一刻之前也可能不知道下一步要做什么。
But that here I'm projecting my own assumptions.
但我在这里提出我自己的假设。
I'd like to talk about mindsets in approaching practice a little bit more, but I want to wade into that territory by talking about vision in the eyes, something that we both share a deep interest in.
我想多谈谈实践中的心态，但我想通过谈论眼睛中的视觉来涉足这个领域，这是我们都非常感兴趣的。
I, from the background of visual neuroscience, but also from the realization that we have this incredible ability to adjust the aperture of our visual window.
我来自视觉神经科学的背景，也来自于认识到我们拥有这种令人难以置信的调整视觉窗口孔径的能力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We can focus very narrowly and we can focus very broadly.
我们可以关注非常狭窄的范围，也可以非常广泛地关注。
So something I encountered I think first as a child, realizing that I could spend all day watching ants play in a very fine domain and then look up and go inside and realize there's a whole world and realizing, wow, I'll never be able to consume the full range of experiences at any one moment.
因此，我首先想到的是小时候遇到的事情，意识到我可以花一整天的时间观看蚂蚁在一个非常精细的领域玩耍，然后抬头一看，走进去，意识到有一个完整的世界，然后意识到，哇，我永远无法在任何时刻消费全方位的体验。
There are ants probably in the corner of this room doing their thing.
房间的角落里可能有蚂蚁在做它们的事情。
And so too, our approach to movement can be, as you mentioned, very big and dynamic in terms of the broad movements of our limbs, or fine articulation.
因此，正如您所提到的，我们的运动方法在我们四肢的广泛运动或精细关节方面可以是非常大和动态的。
When you begin a practice and as you move through a practice, do you apply a regimented way of focusing your vision?
当你开始练习并进行练习时，你是否采用一种有规律的方式来聚焦你的视野？
Are you in panoramic vision?
你处于全景视野吗？
Are you in a very narrow field of view, or does it entirely depend?
你的视野是否非常狭窄，或者这完全取决于你的视野？
And for the person who's a true beginner, true novice like myself, how should I show up to the practice with my eyes?
而对于像我这样真正的初学者、真正的新手来说，我应该如何用眼睛来表现练习呢？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
The eyes are a good starting point as you help a lot of people to understand.
眼睛是一个很好的起点，因为你可以帮助很多人理解。
And when you encounter difficulties with other layers, it's very powerful to start with the eyes.
而当你在其他层面遇到困难时，从眼睛入手是非常有力量的。
Another thing important to understand and to experience, you can't believe me or you got to examine it for yourself.
另一件需要理解和体验的重要事情是，你不能相信我，或者你必须亲自检查一下。
We do not move the eyes as well as we think we do.
我们的眼睛移动并不像我们想象的那么好。
Because as long as you can see and move the eyes, people never think about it, that it can be trained, that it can be improved, et cetera.
因为只要眼睛能看、能动，人们从来不会想到它是可以训练的、它是可以提高的等等。
And the effects of it are far reaching.
它的影响是深远的。
The eyes lead to the inner eye.
眼睛通向内眼。
You can think of it in a beautiful metaphorical way, and it's a representation of the way that we use various cognitive and mind processes and also, of course, affect the body.
你可以用一种美丽的隐喻方式来思考它，它代表了我们使用各种认知和思维过程的方式，当然也影响了身体。
The eyes lead in many ways, and the head is also a very ...
眼睛在很多方面起着主导作用，头部也是一个非常...
because all of these inputs are coming in here.
因为所有这些输入都来自这里。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
So it's very easy to lead the body in.
所以引导身体进去是很容易的。
If you look at a centered way, from the head, it's a very powerful and easy thing.
如果你从头脑的角度来看一种集中的方式，这是一件非常强大和容易的事情。
For example, when you teach boxers how to bob, usually it's not done in the way that I believe it should be done.
例如，当你教拳击手如何鲍勃时，通常不会按照我认为应该做的方式进行。
You teach it with the periphery, they teach it from the feet because they have the idea, which is correct, that you need to do it in spatial conditions, in movement, in space.
你用外围来教它，他们从脚上教它，因为他们有这样的想法，这是正确的，你需要在空间条件、运动、空间中进行。
But in reality the head will organize the feet for you.
但实际上，头部会为你组织双脚。
Instead, you are now putting two elements together and then with years of practice you hope of tying them together well.
相反，您现在将两个元素放在一起，然后通过多年的练习，您希望将它们很好地结合在一起。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
I prefer to do something else because if I'll pull your head now to the side, you will immediately start to organize your feet under you.
我更喜欢做别的事情，因为如果我现在把你的头拉到一边，你会立即开始调整你的脚。
So I give you just one element to manipulate the system from — that's how I would teach someone something like this.
所以我只给你一个操纵系统的元素——这就是我教别人这样的东西的方式。
Many animals hunt with the head, so you can see the body running forward while the head is turning to the side, and the whole thing follows afterwards.
很多动物都是用头捕猎的，所以你可以看到身体向前跑，而头却转向一边，整个过程随之而来。
So it's a very powerful way to address movement, not the only one.
因此，这是解决运动问题的一种非常有效的方法，而不是唯一的方法。
There are many modes, thankfully, and we're very adaptable in that, but definitely a primary one.
值得庆幸的是，有很多模式，我们对此适应能力很强，但绝对是主要模式。
And then the use of the eyes is, of course, maybe the most important element with that usually.
当然，眼睛的使用通常可能是最重要的元素。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yeah.
是的。
What else can I say about the eyes is, so how do you come in?
关于眼睛我还能说什么呢，那么你是怎么进来的呢？
Well, it depends on the practice.
嗯，这取决于实践。
You need to start to have some kind of a checklist of what you're looking to do.
你需要开始制定一份你想要做的事情的清单。
And then by this you can start to tailor the way that you use your eyes.
然后你就可以开始调整你使用眼睛的方式。
The same thing I do for posture, the same thing I do for stance, the same thing eventually I do for state.
我为姿势做同样的事情，为立场做同样的事情，最终我为状态做同样的事情。
And there are different flavors.
而且还有不同的口味。
There is no correct way to use the eye.
没有正确的用眼方法。
Sometimes it's very peripheral — soft, open, awareness orientation.
有时它是非常外围的——柔和、开放、意识导向。
Sometimes it's very focused.
有时非常专注。
Notice that I'm pulling these two opposites, awareness and focused, which is often put together and confused.
请注意，我正在拉动意识和专注这两个对立面，这两个概念经常被放在一起并混淆。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
And then the eyes are the immediate and the easiest entry point into that.
然后眼睛是最直接也是最简单的切入点。
Another thing is the placement of the head and the eyes.
另一件事是头部和眼睛的位置。
For example, when we lower our chin, we seem to see better.
例如，当我们降低下巴时，我们似乎看得更清楚。
When we raise the eyebrows, there is too much exposure of top light sources.
当我们抬起眉毛时，顶部光源的曝光过多。
And so people would usually, when looking into the distance, will tilt their chin in, and in many scenarios, tilting of the chin to the side or placing, just listening with the ear, placing a certain eye or dominant eye, depending on various scenarios.
所以人们在眺望远方的时候，通常会下巴向内倾斜，在很多场景下，下巴会向一侧倾斜，或者只是用耳朵听，放置一只眼睛或者主眼，这取决于不同的场景。
And this is all information that I can come in cerebrally and think about and jump my practice forward instead of just letting the experience teach me that, I'm using some kind of a thinking process to improve.
这些都是我可以在大脑中输入并思考并推动我的实践的所有信息，而不是仅仅让经验告诉我，我正在使用某种思维过程来改进。
And this is not cheating, this is great.
这不是作弊，这很棒。
Will it work?
它会起作用吗？
We got to try.
我们必须尝试。
It's a process.
这是一个过程。
And those are some thoughts and to start to play with.
这些是一些可以开始尝试的想法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I love that you mentioned chin down because we all have a natural reflex.
是的，我喜欢你提到的低下头，因为我们都有自然的反射。
When chin goes down, eyes goes up.
当下巴下降时，眼睛会上升。
And the opposite is true.
事实恰恰相反。
When head goes up, eyes go down.
当头抬起时，眼睛向下。
And there are two separate clusters of neurons in these cranial nerve nuclei that, as we call them, when eyes are up, it increases our level of alertness overall.
这些脑神经核中有两个独立的神经元簇，我们称之为它们，当眼睛向上时，它会提高我们整体的警觉水平。
This is not woo science, this is the function of these cranial nerve nuclei.
这不是宇科学，这是这些脑神经核团的功能。
When our eyes are down, we go into states of more calm and quiescence, and this makes perfect sense.
当我们的眼睛向下时，我们会进入更加平静和安静的状态，这是完全有道理的。
And then the eyelids usually go down and then people fall asleep.
然后眼睑通常会下降，然后人们就睡着了。
Eyes up does not mean head up because as you said, there's a very dynamic control over the amount of luminance, depending on the environment.
眼睛向上并不意味着抬头，因为正如您所说，根据环境，对亮度量有一个非常动态的控制。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then as you mentioned, this difference between focus and awareness I think is a really important one.
正如您所提到的，我认为专注和意识之间的区别非常重要。
When we are in this more panoramic soft gaze and broad awareness, big swaths of visual field, as we say, the neurons that control that come through a pathway called magnocellular pathway.
当我们处于这种更加全景式的柔和凝视和广泛的意识中时，正如我们所说，控制视野的神经元通过称为大细胞通路的通路来控制。
In any event, those neurons are much thicker cables.
无论如何，这些神经元都是更粗的电缆。
They transmit much faster.
它们的传输速度要快得多。
Just like thick pipes can carry more water more quickly.
就像粗的管道可以更快地输送更多的水一样。
And your reaction time is at least four times what it is in this awareness mode than it is when you're narrowly focused on something.
在这种意识模式下，你的反应时间至少是你专注于某件事时的四倍。
And this is counterintuitive I think to a lot of people, but the person who is running to catch the ball is not tracking the ball in a smooth movement.
我认为这对很多人来说是违反直觉的，但是跑去接球的人并没有以平稳的动作跟踪球。
Most of their vision is in peripheral vision.
他们的大部分视力都在周边视力。
When we drive, we're in this peripheral vision, and our reaction times are much, much faster.
当我们开车时，我们处于这种余光之中，我们的反应速度要快得多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I don't know if ...
所以我不知道是否...
I'm reluctant to encourage people to shift toward a particular type of practice, toward a particular type of vision.
我不愿意鼓励人们转向某种特定类型的实践、某种特定类型的愿景。
I think what you and I, I hope, agree on, correct me if I'm wrong, is that exploring these different extremes and everything in between is where the real value is.
我认为，我希望你和我达成共识，如果我错了，请纠正我，那就是探索这些不同的极端以及介于两者之间的一切才是真正的价值所在。
Panoramic, focused; eyes — head up, eyes down; head down, eyes up, playing with it and exploring it as opposed to for the first 10 minutes of practice be in panoramic vision.
全景、聚焦；眼睛——头向上，眼睛向下；头低下，眼睛向上，玩弄它并探索它，而不是在前 10 分钟的练习中处于全景视野中。
Earlier today we were joking about and kind of lamenting the fact that this word "biohacking" exists, or that the "optimal performance." It's that they're unfortunate terms because they suggest that if you just plug it in, it's going to be like two plus two equals four, and you're going to get it right every time.
今天早些时候，我们开玩笑并有点感叹“生物黑客”这个词的存在，或者“最佳性能”。它们是不幸的术语，因为它们表明，如果你把它插上，它就会像二加二等于四，而且你每次都会得到正确的结果。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Another pragmatic beat here, if I can offer, is since our culture has been more geared in pushing us towards focus, the focuses of the eyes and primary language, reading and other things, we have less opportunities to work with the more open panoramic one.
如果我可以提供的话，这里的另一个务实的节奏是，由于我们的文化更倾向于推动我们集中注意力，眼睛和主要语言、阅读和其他事物的焦点，我们与更开放的全景文化合作的机会更少。
So it would be smart to start to balance things out a bit more.
因此，明智的做法是开始更多地平衡事情。
When you are in nature, you don't look at each leaf, everything is moving and you are kind of immersed in that and then something attracts your attention, "Oh it's a bird." Now you focus and you go back into the general state, the basic state which is open awareness.
当你在大自然中时，你不会看每一片叶子，一切都在移动，你有点沉浸其中，然后有什么东西吸引了你的注意力，“哦，这是一只鸟。”现在你集中注意力，回到一般状态，基本状态，即开放意识。
Here we switch things around in our modern culture, we are mostly focused and then we sometimes daydream, which is maybe some kind of a balancing act that comes from deep within.
在这里，我们在现代文化中发生了转变，我们大部分时间都专注，然后有时会做白日梦，这可能是某种来自内心深处的平衡行为。
I don't know, maybe you can share some information about that.
我不知道，也许你可以分享一些相关信息。
But I see that many time people need to, the focus is overly done, by far, in our lives.
但我发现，很多时候人们需要这样做，但到目前为止，在我们的生活中，注意力已经过度集中了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I couldn't agree more.
我完全同意。
And I think a lot of, I'll even venture so far as to say that a lot of the visual deficits that we now see in young people, myopia, literally nearsightedness, occurs because if we look at things that are too close to us as children or as adults, the eyeball actually gets longer.
我认为，我什至敢说，我们现在在年轻人身上看到的许多视力缺陷，近视，字面意义上的近视，都是因为如果我们在儿童或成人时看离我们太近的东西，眼球实际上会变长。
The lens focuses the visual image in front of, nearer to the lens — nearsighted — than in front of where it should land.
镜头将视觉图像聚焦在距离镜头更近的位置（近视），而不是应该落在的位置前面。
And basically it's a lack of panoramic vision, that is, or open awareness that's driving these changes.
基本上，是缺乏全景视野，即缺乏开放的意识，推动了这些变化。
And nowadays we are essentially, most people are 90% of the time in this narrow focus mode.
现在我们基本上，大多数人 90% 的时间都处于这种狭隘的焦点模式中。
Right before recording, we took a break and went up to look at a vista and to look off to the distance.
录制前，我们休息了一下，就上去看看远景，眺望远方。
Incredibly useful, easy practice at some level, but I think most people are not doing this sort of thing.
在某种程度上非常有用且简单的练习，但我认为大多数人并没有做这种事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the way that it shapes the mind and the perception of time, of course, is a whole other kingdom of ideas.
当然，它塑造心灵和时间感知的方式完全是另一个思想王国。
But one thing I'd like to relate this element of vision to and open awareness is earlier you mentioned the cone of auditory attention, the other sense that we can play with in our practice and throughout the day.
但我想将视觉元素与开放意识联系起来的一件事是，您之前提到了听觉注意力锥体，这是我们可以在练习中和全天使用的另一种感觉。
Do you see any value to both paying attention to things in a very narrow cone of auditory attention but also just walking and listening to all the sounds at once.
您认为既要在非常狭窄的听觉注意力范围内关注事物，又要同时行走并聆听所有声音，这有什么价值吗？
I could imagine that could be useful.
我可以想象这可能会有用。
And in terms of physical movement practices, I was going to say, where are your ears?
在身体动作练习方面，我想说，你的耳朵在哪里？
Your ears are always more or less in the same place.
你的耳朵总是或多或少地位于同一个地方。
But where is your hearing when you approach your practice?
但是当你开始练习时，你的听力在哪里？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Another set of parameters to think about and to play with and to be aware of.
另一组需要思考、使用和了解的参数。
Also, I have the experience that some people are better at using this system or that system.
另外，我的经验是，有些人更擅长使用这个系统或那个系统。
And you would be amazed how differently the same results, seemingly outside results, are done by different practitioners and different scenarios.
你会惊讶地发现，相同的结果，看似外部的结果，由不同的从业者和不同的场景得到的却有多么不同。
This goes into this mutation and change idea.
这涉及到这种突变和改变的想法。
What really jumps us forward is eventually some kind of a mutation.
真正让我们前进的最终是某种突变。
So it's like all of our culture and practices and success puts us closer and closer to each other.
因此，我们所有的文化、实践和成功都让我们彼此之间的距离越来越近。
So we have the same opinions everywhere around the world becoming more and more the same, less and less different, but the real hope comes from the different.
因此，我们在世界各地都有相同的观点，变得越来越相同，不同越来越少，但真正的希望来自不同。
And we have a difficulty in difficulty in promoting that.
我们在推动这一点上遇到了困难。
And so this is another thing that can be promoted with the right practices, the right ...
所以这是另一件事可以通过正确的实践来促进，正确的......
For example, I work with or even worked with governments before to bring in some of that freshness with simple habits in the workday or in the education of children or in companies increasing productivity.
例如，我以前曾与政府合作，甚至与政府合作，在工作日、儿童教育或提高生产力的公司中通过简单的习惯带来一些新鲜感。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
I don't really give a fuck, but I am there to give what I view is important, and what is important maybe increases productivity, but it's more important to me that it improves people's lives who are involved and improves being and becoming — being and becoming, these two entities.
我真的不在乎，但我在那里给出我认为重要的东西，重要的东西可能会提高生产力，但对我来说更重要的是它改善了参与其中的人们的生活，并改善了存在和成为——存在和成为，这两个实体。
I'm not there, I'm on my way, I'm a process.
我不在那里，我正在路上，我是一个过程。
So thinking about here, the way that people use their ears, the way that people use listening.
所以在这里思考一下，人们使用耳朵的方式，人们使用倾听的方式。
Again, we can talk about placement of the head and posture, sometimes angling as well — sharper angle, chin down.
再次，我们可以讨论头部的位置和姿势，有时也可以讨论角度——更锐利的角度，下巴向下。
Some people tend to use the shape of the ear, people with different ears closer or further out.
有些人倾向于使用耳朵的形状，不同人的耳朵靠近或远离。
If you're very sensitive and you're looking around, you would see this is affecting people's motion.
如果您非常敏感并且环顾四周，您会发现这正在影响人们的运动。
Even the shape of our face, the development of the vocal chords and speaking, will totally change how we look.
甚至我们的脸型、声带的发育和说话都会完全改变我们的外貌。
But how we listen also will do the same.
但我们聆听的方式也会产生同样的效果。
I don't have any proof of it, but it is something I believe in.
我没有任何证据证明这一点，但这是我相信的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, people will even make their ears bigger.
嗯，人们甚至会把耳朵弄得更大。
We try and become like little fennec foxes or something.
我们努力变得像小耳廓狐什么的。
I mean a lot of people don't realize that's actually why we do this is to capture more sound waves.
我的意思是很多人没有意识到我们这样做实际上是为了捕获更多声波。
And the leaning is, the localization of sound is based on a simple brain stem calculation of interaural time differences.
据了解，声音的定位是基于脑干对耳间时间差的简单计算。
The time in which something the ...
某事发生的时间...
brain intuitively just knows, because it's a pretty hardwired circuit, that if a sound arrives first to this ear, then that ear that it's likely coming from over here.
大脑凭直觉就知道，因为它是一个相当硬连线的电路，如果声音首先到达这只耳朵，然后到达那只耳朵，它可能来自这里。
Whereas if it's dead center, arrives at the two at the same time — it's almost ridiculously simple when one hears it, no pun intended.
而如果它是在正中心，同时到达两个地方——当人们听到它时，它几乎是简单得可笑，没有双关语的意思。
But it is an incredibly valuable way of thinking about how the architecture of the body changes our experience.
但这是一种非常有价值的思考身体结构如何改变我们体验的方式。
I want to ...
我想...
along those lines, earlier you mentioned something and it flagged an important question for me.
沿着这些思路，您之前提到过一些事情，这对我来说是一个重要的问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When I see people walking sometimes I think, wow, they really move in a strange way.
当我有时看到人们走路时，我想，哇，他们的移动方式真的很奇怪。
Occasionally you see somebody, they walk really ...
偶尔你会看到有人，他们走路真的...
it's impressive for whatever reason, and you just think, wow, they sort of glide along.
不管出于什么原因，它都令人印象深刻，你只是想，哇，它们有点滑行。
People come in different shapes and sizes, short torsos, long arms, et cetera.
人们有不同的形状和大小，短躯干，长手臂等等。
Do you think that if people have a body type that facilitates certain kinds of movement and not others, that they should intentionally try and move in the way that is right at the edge of the kind of friction and challenge in order to shape new possibilities?
您是否认为，如果人们的体型适合某些运动而不是其他运动，那么他们应该有意识地尝试以处于摩擦和挑战边缘的方式运动，以形成新的可能性？
Or do you think that they should lean into the smooth execution of what comes most naturally to them?
或者您认为他们应该顺利执行对他们来说最自然的事情？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yeah, I think a good practice is to have many walks, because they're required.
是的，我认为一个好的做法是进行多次散步，因为这是必需的。
And of course there is a very efficient and endurance, stamina-oriented thing that if you have the experience, it will naturally develop and unravel.
当然，有一种非常高效、耐力、耐力的东西，如果你有经验，它自然会发展和瓦解。
And if not, you can get some collective knowledge and improve.
如果没有，你可以获得一些集体知识并进行改进。
And then there is a lot of emotional things related to walk.
还有很多与行走有关的情感事物。
Like how I'm walking into a business meeting, and ...
就像我走进商务会议一样，然后......
or how I'm walking out of a bad situation.
或者我如何走出困境。
And there is a lot of beautiful things to research there practically with yourself — trying to approach someone with the chin slightly down, very linear, very efficient in the straightest line, or trying to approach someone a little bit more rounded from the side and tilting your head.
那里有很多美丽的东西需要你自己去实际研究——尝试接近下巴稍微向下的人，非常线性，在最直线上非常有效，或者尝试从侧面接近一个更圆一点的人并倾斜你的头。
And you will see totally different results, totally different communication that happens over people's heads.
你会看到完全不同的结果，人们头脑中发生的完全不同的沟通。
But if you're sensitive, you realize that, wow, this opened the door.
但如果你敏感的话，你就会意识到，哇，这打开了大门。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Many people, you start on the minus.
很多人都是从负数开始的。
My big sister Tally, she always says, "I started on the minus, why don't I start on zero with them?" But it's part of the approach.
我的姐姐塔莉总是说：“我从负数开始，为什么我不从零开始呢？”但这是方法的一部分。
You can affect that, and you can start even on the plus if you are the sly man, as the practitioner needs to be.
你可以影响它，如果你是一个狡猾的人，你甚至可以从加号开始，正如练习者所需要的那样。
So this is something to play with and to work with.
所以这是一个可以玩和工作的东西。
And then you have, of course, body proportions and ways, and we have all these technical invasions, mathematics and trigonometry and architecture.
当然，还有身体比例和方式，我们还有所有这些技术入侵、数学、三角学和建筑。
They invaded our bodies, they invaded our nervous system and now our walk and our physical practices, they look linear and efficient.
它们侵入了我们的身体，侵入了我们的神经系统，现在我们的行走和身体练习，它们看起来是线性且高效的。
The path between two points is a straight line.
两点之间的路径是一条直线。
It's not.
它不是。
This is biomechanics, it's not mechanics.
这是生物力学，不是力学。
Nothing there is a given.
没有什么是给定的。
There's no gospel.
没有福音。
So the walk is sometimes have to go around or sway from side to side.
所以走路有时必须绕圈或左右摇摆。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
And there is coiling, uncoiling, and there are moving bits.
还有卷取、开卷和移动钻头。
And what about the coordination of my breathing with my walk?
我的呼吸和行走的协调性怎么样？
Because if I walk too linearly, there is less pumping of the air naturally in and out.
因为如果我走得太直线，自然进出的空气就会减少。
So now I have to forcefully bring it in and out.
所以现在我必须强行把它带进去和带出来。
I'm wasteful.
我很浪费。
And that's why you see in last years these incredible runners, especially in long distance, doing things we never thought were possible, in the worst possible way ...
这就是为什么你在过去几年中看到这些令人难以置信的跑步者，尤其是长跑运动员，以最糟糕的方式做着我们从未想过可能的事情......
we used to think — pronation and all kinds of things.
我们曾经认为——内旋和各种各样的事情。
Like our technical thoughts were totally misguided and wrong, and somebody comes in and does it in some way that is totally wrong and gets results we could never get.
就像我们的技术思想完全被误导和错误一样，有人进来并以某种完全错误的方式去做，并得到了我们永远无法得到的结果。
And that's the beauty of playfulness, experimentation, change, being different.
这就是乐趣、实验、改变、与众不同的美妙之处。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As you're describing this, I'm smiling because one of my favorite neuroscientists, he's out of the University of Chicago, was in a meeting, and there was an argument about evolution of the nervous system.
当你描述这一点时，我微笑是因为我最喜欢的神经科学家之一，他来自芝加哥大学，正在参加一个会议，并且有关于神经系统进化的争论。
And he said at the end ...
他最后说...
and people were arguing about whether or not this gene in one animal was homologous to this gene in humans, et cetera.
人们争论动物中的这个基因是否与人类中的这个基因同源，等等。
It can get very dicey.
它可能会变得非常危险。
And he said very appropriately that one of the major jobs of evolution is to take existing cell types in circuits and give them new functions.
他非常恰当地说，进化的主要工作之一就是在电路中采用现有的细胞类型并赋予它们新的功能。
But that can only be done through the playful exploration of new possibilities, which I think maps very well to what you're saying.
但这只能通过对新可能性的有趣探索来实现，我认为这非常符合你所说的内容。
That at the extreme thresholds of technical execution — you know, mastery, mastery, mastery — your, obviously, performance is very high, but the opportunity for evolution of the sport or the music or the dance or the intellectual endeavor is limited because you're not introducing variability.
在技术执行的极限——你知道，精通、精通、精通——你的表现显然非常高，但运动、音乐、舞蹈或智力努力的进化机会是有限的，因为你没有引入可变性。
In the attempt to get proper execution, you're limiting oneself.
在试图获得正确执行的过程中，你限制了自己。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Hence I want to offer something that is relating to you.
因此我想提供一些与你相关的东西。
We should be wary of defining the mechanisms and putting certain meaning with certain processes and ways because just history and experience shows it doesn't work well for us most times, or it becomes this much more elaborate thing even if we were somewhat in the right direction.
我们应该谨慎地定义机制，并为某些流程和方式赋予某些意义，因为历史和经验表明，大多数时候它对我们来说效果不佳，或者即使我们在某种程度上朝着正确的方向，它也会变得更加复杂。
Because even thinking this way can offer a lot.
因为即使这样思考也能提供很多东西。
For example, your advice about heat, dopamine, light, offers a lot of benefit but also can create problems, and it can enclose something, which the improviser will ...
例如，你关于热、多巴胺、光的建议提供了很多好处，但也可能产生问题，并且它可以包含一些即兴创作者会......
the MacGyvers, right?
麦基弗人，对吧？
Take a pin, some paper clip, and you make it into something great.
拿一根别针、一些回形针，你就能把它变成很棒的东西。
And this is really our, we are the biggest improvisers around.
这确实是我们的，我们是最大的即兴创作者。
That's what made us who we are, I think.
我想，这就是我们之所以成为现在的我们的原因。
And this is incredible what we can do with it.
我们能用它做的事情真是令人难以置信。
The Russian, American space exploration story with the space pen.
俄罗斯、美国与太空笔的太空探索故事。
Famous story about the development of the space pen?
关于太空笔发展的著名故事？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a space pen?
这是太空笔？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, I don't know about this.
不，我不知道这件事。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
I think it's an urban myth.
我认为这是一个都市神话。
I don't know if it's true, but I like it.
我不知道这是不是真的，但我喜欢。
So I use it.
所以我用它。
So there was this, of course, space competition, and the Russians put the first animal in space and the first ...
当然，还有太空竞赛，俄罗斯人将第一只动物送入太空，也是第一只……
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it was a macaque monkey or something like that.
我认为那是一只猕猴或类似的东西。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yeah.
是的。
And then Leica, and they put the first Sputnik, the satellite, and men in space.
然后是徕卡，他们将第一颗人造卫星、卫星和人类送入太空。
But Americans took the men on the moon, and on the way lot of technologies got developed in the Americans because of lack of gravity out there developed the space pen with a huge investment.
但是美国人把人带上了月球，在美国人开发出许多技术的过程中，由于月球缺乏重力，他们投入了巨额投资开发了太空笔。
The Russians used the pencil.
俄罗斯人用的是铅笔。
So I don't know if it's true, I don't think it is, but it represents something in the state of mind.
所以我不知道这是不是真的，我认为不是，但是它代表了某种心态。
Like you look at, for example, the military equipment in Soviet equipment, it all can do multiple things.
就像你看的，例如，苏联装备中的军事装备，它都可以做多种事情。
And it means that it's heavier, it's less efficient, it's not as light.
这意味着它更重，效率更低，而且不那么轻。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
But even the Navy SEALs will still carry an AK with certain conditions.
但即使是海豹突击队，在某些条件下仍然会携带 AK。
Why?
为什么？
Because you can pour a whole bucket of sand into the mechanism and it will keep running while the most advanced German Heckler and Koch — an accurate and light weapon — for every grain, can get stuck and overly specialized.
因为你可以将一整桶沙子倒入该装置中，它会继续运行，而最先进的德国黑克勒和科赫——一种精确而轻的武器——对于每一粒沙子来说，可能会被卡住并且过于专业化。
And there is something about this openness that we humans need to keep.
我们人类需要保持这种开放性。
And also maybe something for our leaders to be more of less specialist and more in this openness, less capable in this or that way, but more capable of doing the whole thing.
也许我们的领导者应该更加开放，而不是那么专业，在这方面或那方面能力较差，但更有能力完成整件事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love the story.
我喜欢这个故事。
Whether or not it's legend or not, it's legendary because it's fantastic.
不管它是否是传奇，它之所以传奇，是因为它太精彩了。
As we say in the laboratory, whenever someone takes on a project in my lab, I always say you have to ask yourself how much technical detail and challenge you want to take on.
正如我们在实验室里所说，每当有人在我的实验室承担一个项目时，我总是说你必须问自己你想要承担多少技术细节和挑战。
Because with more technology, advanced technology, yes, there's the opportunity for more discovery, but more downtime.
因为有了更多的技术，先进的技术，是的，有更多发现的机会，但也会有更多的停机时间。
Your PhD will literally take longer if you're going to use a microscope that's out of commission 30% of the time.
如果您要使用 30% 的时间都无法使用的显微镜，那么您的博士学位实际上会花费更长的时间。
And you just have to understand that.
你只需要明白这一点。
So there's a dynamic interplay there.
所以那里存在动态的相互作用。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
By the way, I think that scientists get it right.
顺便说一句，我认为科学家们是对的。
It's where you transmit the knowledge out of the scientific field because science have debate and everything.
这是你将知识传播到科学领域之外的地方，因为科学有辩论和一切。
You're not so connected.
你们没那么有联系。
Of course this can happen as well.
当然这也可能发生。
But then when it goes out and the simple person without the experience takes it more as a gospel, as a fixed thing.
但当它消失时，没有经验的简单人更多地把它当作福音，当作固定的东西。
And then it was just a report.
然后这只是一份报告。
Was just reporting some functions here and play with it.
只是在这里报告一些功能并使用它。
See what it does for you.
看看它对你有什么作用。
Because with all the greatest information that I can give, the person will examine it.
因为我能提供的所有最重要的信息，人们都会对其进行检查。
And it might be not useful at all for him.
而且对他来说可能一点用处都没有。
This is the practitioner, make it your own.
这就是实践者，让它成为你自己的。
Go practice, try heat, cold, light, movement, awareness to this, awareness to this.
去练习，尝试热、冷、光、运动、对此的认识、对此的认识。
And this is up to you to make it yours.
这取决于您是否将其变成您的。
But we don't like to have this responsibility.
但我们不喜欢承担这个责任。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, people prefer to have: this will work the first time every time and will serve you best compared to everything else.
不，人们更喜欢拥有：这每次都会第一次起作用，并且与其他所有东西相比，它会为您提供最好的服务。
And while there are more reliable tools than others, in my mind, the more reliable tools tend to be ones that are grounded in our innate physiology as opposed to some, I don't like the word "hack." In fact, I loathe the word biohack as we were talking about again earlier.
虽然有比其他工具更可靠的工具，但在我看来，更可靠的工具往往是基于我们先天生理学的工具，而不是某些工具，我不喜欢“黑客”这个词。事实上，我讨厌我们之前再次讨论过的“生物黑客”这个词。
Because the hack in my mind is something that is designed for one purpose that's used for another.
因为在我看来，黑客是一种专为一种目的而设计却用于另一种目的的东西。
It's not the most efficient use of that tool, nor is it naturally the best solution.
这不是该工具的最有效使用，也不是最好的解决方案。
Whereas biology has some very good solutions, but they don't always work.
尽管生物学有一些非常好的解决方案，但它们并不总是有效。
Not every time.
不是每次。
Earlier today we did a practice which involved invasion, shall we say, of peripersonal space.
今天早些时候，我们进行了一次涉及侵犯（容我们说）个人空间的实践。
We weren't standing super close for any particular reason, but there was ...
由于任何特殊原因，我们并没有站得很近，但有......
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
God forbid.
上帝禁止。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
God forbid.
上帝禁止。
But we were close enough together we could touch one's torsos.
但我们靠得很近，可以触摸对方的躯干。
And we were doing that as part of this practice.
我们这样做是本次实践的一部分。
And you encouraged me to pay attention to, how does it feel to have someone in your peripersonal space.
你鼓励我关注有人在你的个人空间里的感觉如何。
And then this notion of reactivity.
然后是反应性的概念。
I find this an immensely interesting and potentially powerful practice because I think a lot of people, I know a lot people suffer from anxiety just being in a face-to-face conversation.
我发现这是一种非常有趣且具有潜在强大作用的做法，因为我认为很多人，我知道很多人只是在面对面的交谈中就会感到焦虑。
Some people have a lot of anxiety about being physically close to people, whether or not they know them or not.
有些人对与人的身体接触感到非常焦虑，无论他们是否认识他们。
And many people are reactive.
而且很多人都是反应性的。
They are in that anticipatory state of something is going to happen.
他们处于某种即将发生的事情的预期状态。
And sometimes this relates to trauma and negative experience, but sometimes no, sometimes they're just not used to being in dynamic exchange with other beings.
有时这与创伤和负面经历有关，但有时不是，有时他们只是不习惯与其他人进行动态交流。
And so, one thing that I love about the movement practice and how dynamic it is that one can explore that space.
因此，我喜欢运动练习的一件事以及人们可以探索那个空间的动态。
Maybe you could talk about that a little bit more.
也许你可以多谈谈这一点。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yeah, touch, proximity, all these things.
是的，触摸、接近，所有这些。
Also taking very ...
还采取非常...
it takes a very, I think, limited place in our lives.
我认为它在我们的生活中占据的地位非常有限。
People are not touched and they don't touch enough.
人们没有被感动，也没有被足够的感动。
There are certain bubbles of peripersonal space according to culture, according to environment, what is right, what is wrong.
根据文化、环境、什么是对的、什么是错的，存在一定的个人周围空间泡沫。
And then came all the, of course politically correctness and harassments and all kinds.
然后就是所有的，当然是政治正确和骚扰以及各种各样的事情。
And this is a problem.
这是一个问题。
It's a problem to navigate all this scenario.
驾驭所有这些场景是一个问题。
And I think we are ...
我认为我们是...
there is definitely this side which is suffering.
肯定有这一方正在受苦。
People go to BJJ classes to touch, not to learn BJJ.
人们去巴西柔术班是为了触摸，而不是为了学习巴西柔术。
Most of it, they're not even aware of it.
大多数情况下，他们甚至没有意识到这一点。
Before they would go to a prostitute maybe.
也许在他们去嫖妓之前。
It would not be honest to say that, yeah, this is not required or necessary more in our lives.
老实说，是的，这在我们的生活中不再需要或必要。
Children who are not touched, there is a lot of information about that and the problems.
对于没有接触过的孩子，有很多关于这一点和问题的信息。
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But adults who are not touched, there is not a lot of information.
但对于没有接触过的成年人来说，信息并不多。
And I think it's no less of a problem because it's something that has to be constantly present.
我认为这同样是一个问题，因为它必须持续存在。
And then proximity, being able to, as you said, remove certain reactivity and to learn to control that, volume control over how reactive I am, and in other scenarios, how do I remove this reactivity altogether is very important for performance and also for our lives, for clear thinking, et cetera.
然后，接近度，正如你所说，能够消除某些反应性，并学会控制它，音量控制我的反应性，在其他情况下，我如何完全消除这种反应性对于表现以及我们的生活，清晰的思维等等都非常重要。
Because everything is moving through us and is being monitored by us.
因为一切都在通过我们进行，并受到我们的监控。
So everything has the potential to detract us from a certain direction of exploration.
所以一切都有可能使我们偏离某个探索方向。
And if you're reactive, you're a slave, and it becomes worse and worse and worse.
如果你反应迟钝，你就是一个奴隶，事情会变得越来越糟。
Or, for example, a fighter or a football player, et cetera has to know what to take, what not to take.
或者，例如，拳击手或足球运动员等必须知道该拿什么，不该拿什么。
The fact that you can sense more, doesn't mean you should react to it.
事实上，你能感觉到更多，并不意味着你应该对此做出反应。
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And the practice helps that by bringing people into these scenarios, but oftentimes disarming them.
这种做法有助于做到这一点，让人们进入这些场景，但通常会解除他们的戒心。
Like when we were working closely today and because you have a certain background with boxing or fighting, I can tell you, you are missing some kind of a way to be in that space that is not martial.
就像我们今天密切合作时一样，因为你有一定的拳击或格斗背景，我可以告诉你，你错过了某种进入非武术空间的方式。
So you carry a certain tone, although you're a very kind person, but oftentimes you held me without realizing you're holding me with a lot of strength, for example.
所以你带着某种语气，虽然你是一个非常善良的人，但很多时候你抱着我，却没有意识到你用很大的力量，例如。
And it was clear to me you're not fully aware of what is unfolding.
我很清楚你并没有完全意识到正在发生的事情。
And it's just, of course, a question of experience.
当然，这只是一个经验问题。
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So to be able to be in this scenario but do something else which is not geared towards winning, losing competition or just being able to play with another person.
因此，能够在这种情况下做一些其他事情，而不是为了赢得、输掉比赛或只是能够与另一个人一起玩。
For example, contact improvisation took that and played with that, and the work of Steve Paxton, for the ones who are not familiar.
例如，接触即兴创作就采用了这一点并加以发挥，还有史蒂夫·帕克斯顿（Steve Paxton）的作品，对于那些不熟悉的人来说。
So this is where I call it the hybrids become very useful when you are practicing in this open way.
所以这就是我所说的，当你以这种开放的方式练习时，混合动力变得非常有用。
You are not bound by specific rule set or ways of doing things.
您不受特定规则集或做事方式的约束。
It can be a fight, but it can be a dance a moment after.
这可能是一场战斗，但片刻之后也可能是一场舞蹈。
Another thing that I learned from capoeira, the situation's very tricky there.
我从卡波耶拉学到的另一件事是，那里的情况非常棘手。
Because I've seen kids doing cartwheels in Brazil and scissors fall from their pocket.
因为我在巴西见过孩子们做侧手翻，剪刀从他们的口袋里掉下来。
Why would you go to with a scissors in.
为什么要拿着剪刀进去。
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Why would you go to with a scissor in your pocket?
你为什么要口袋里揣着剪刀去？
Obviously, there is certain intentions, and then at other times you see back flips and beautiful things, but people die in capoeira every year.
显然，有一定的意图，然后在其他时候你会看到后空翻和美丽的东西，但每年都有人死于卡波耶拉。
PART 4 OF 5 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 4 部分（共 5 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
Neck breaks or something?
脖子断了还是怎么的？
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Kicks to the face ...
一脚踢到脸上...
from various violence.
来自各种暴力。
I've explored other martial arts and boxing.
我探索过其他武术和拳击。
I was involved with MMA and BJJ, but I tell you the most violent arena is that vibe because it's unknown.
我参与过综合格斗（MMA）和巴西柔术（BJJ），但我告诉你，最暴力的竞技场就是那种氛围，因为它是未知的。
One moment it's smiles, another moment it's something else.
一会儿是微笑，一会儿又是别的东西。
And it's uncontrolled.
而且是不受控制的。
There is no categories, no weights.
没有类别，没有权重。
And it's a street phenomenon.
这是一种街头现象。
So you have musical instruments, sometimes they break it on your head.
所以你有乐器，有时他们会把它弄坏在你的头上。
People don't see that, but you can look online on YouTube and see some of that side of capoeira, which is actually the day-to-day in Brazil and the reality and how things unfolded.
人们看不到这一点，但你可以在 YouTube 上在线观看，看到卡波耶拉的一些侧面，这实际上是巴西的日常生活、现实以及事情是如何展开的。
So it's very important to explore many ways of being within different distances and spaces from other people and touched in different ways and not contextualizing it always in the same way.
因此，探索与他人处于不同距离和空间的多种方式，并以不同的方式进行接触，而不是总是以相同的方式将其置于情境中，这一点非常重要。
I can touch your chest in one way.
我可以用一种方式触摸你的胸部。
I can touch it with the exact same pressure and speed, but it will feel very different.
我可以用完全相同的压力和速度触摸它，但感觉会很不一样。
The parameters, I'm not sure.
参数我不太清楚。
Certain intentions, certain combination of postures or ways.
某些意图、某些姿势或方式的组合。
And this is beautiful exploration.
这是一次美丽的探索。
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Again, I would encourage you and others to explore the discomfort.
我再次鼓励您和其他人探索这种不适。
For example, certain discomfort to be with a man in a certain scenario or with a woman, and trying to see, what is that?
例如，在某种情况下与男人或与女人在一起时感到某些不适，并试图看看那是什么？
Because if we are truly strong, we are not afraid of anything.
因为如果我们真正强大，我们就什么都不怕。
If we truly know who we are and we are in that exploration, we don't know the end result, but we are in a research, and then we are not afraid of being in debt or this, and we don't come out of boundaries, and this will improve our culture tremendously.
如果我们真正知道我们是谁，我们在探索中，我们不知道最终结果，但我们在研究中，然后我们就不会害怕负债或这样的事情，我们不会走出界限，这将极大地改善我们的文化。
Of course, there must be agreement.
当然，必须有协议。
You never force yourself.
你从不强迫自己。
But you meet someone who is also interested in that exploration and then you do it.
但你遇到了一个也对这种探索感兴趣的人，然后你就去做了。
There are many scenarios to do that with traditional practices, like learning to grapple or going to contact improvisation and starting there or going to dance, to Latin dance class.
在传统练习中，有很多场景可以做到这一点，比如学习格斗或接触即兴表演，然后从那里开始或去跳舞、上拉丁舞课。
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There is, of course, my favorite is to create and to come up with your own hybrids of that and scenarios, communicating with your loved one through movement, not sitting around food and talking, moving together in all kinds of ways.
当然，我最喜欢的是创造并想出你自己的场景和场景的混合体，通过动作与你所爱的人交流，而不是围坐在食物旁说话，以各种方式一起移动。
Sometimes it's walking together and sometimes it's all kinds of ...
有时是一起走，有时是各种……
It can be game, playful.
它可以是游戏，好玩的。
It can be romantic.
它可以是浪漫的。
There are many shades.
有很多阴影。
Sex doesn't start here and end here, right?
性不是从这里开始也不是从这里结束，对吗？
It's continuum and we don't even need to define it in that way.
它是连续体，我们甚至不需要以这种方式定义它。
So with time I think it unlocks a lot of things.
所以随着时间的推移，我认为它会解锁很多东西。
People become much stronger in a good sense, in sense of becoming, being, and we abuse less, and we can approach other aspects to us.
人们在良好的意义上变得更加强大，在成为、存在的意义上变得更加强大，我们虐待更少，我们可以接近我们的其他方面。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love the idea that through the exploration of a range of physical contacts, provided one knows they can always return to their center, so to speak, then there's a lot of opportunity that opens up.
我喜欢这样的想法：通过探索一系列身体接触，如果一个人知道他们总能回到自己的中心，可以这么说，那么就会有很多机会。
I wish there was more of that encouraged in children's play, but also, as you mentioned, in adult environments.
我希望在儿童游戏中能有更多这样的鼓励，而且，正如你提到的，在成人环境中也是如此。
Because nowadays, for all sorts of reasons that you've touched on, the idea of keeping at least an arm's length distance has become critical.
因为如今，由于您提到的各种原因，保持至少一臂距离的想法变得至关重要。
There are a lot of environments, actually, where hugging is not allowed.
事实上，有很多环境是不允许拥抱的。
I don't know what it's like in Israel, but in the States, many institutions, you're not allowed to touch anyone else's body.
我不知道以色列的情况如何，但在美国，很多机构都不允许你触摸任何人的身体。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's actually a wonderful study that comes to mind from an Israeli laboratory, a guy named Noam Sobel, who's over there, who has shown that by recording people's first interactions, that when people meet, if they shake hands, they almost always, I think it's greater than 85% of the time, they will then wipe the chemicals from the other person onto their own eyes, typically their eyes or their face.
实际上，我想到了以色列实验室的一项精彩研究，那里有一个名叫诺姆·索贝尔的人，他通过记录人们的第一次互动表明，当人们见面时，如果他们握手，他们几乎总是，我认为超过 85% 的时间，然后他们会将对方身上的化学物质擦到自己的眼睛上，通常是他们的眼睛或脸上。
This changed a little bit during the whole pandemic thing, but this is thought to be a carryover from what other animals do in terms of exchanging microbiome elements, exchanging chemicals, that we're constantly feeding our subconscious with the knowledge of the chemical constituents of other people.
在整个大流行期间，这种情况发生了一些变化，但这被认为是其他动物在交换微生物组元素、交换化学物质方面的延续，我们不断地用其他人的化学成分的知识来喂养我们的潜意识。
So it goes way beyond how people smell, how they look, et cetera.
因此，它远远超出了人们的气味、外表等。
More touch seems to me, just as you said, provided it's consensual, seems like just a really good thing overall.
在我看来，正如你所说，只要是双方同意的，更多的接触总体来说似乎是一件非常好的事情。
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And I think maybe also important for discharging certain experiences, remodeling, reframing.
我认为也许对于释放某些经验、重塑、重构也很重要。
So it's like touch is very powerful in that.
所以触摸在这方面的作用非常强大。
If you're touched and you're touching a lot, you're unpacking and you experience that touch that maybe has been traumatic and you are reframing it.
如果你被触碰，而且触碰次数很多，那么你就在拆包，体验到那种可能是创伤性的触碰，并且你正在重新构建它。
You have the opportunity, which is something interesting.
你有机会，这很有趣。
I've heard some story about some traditional culture in which when you were burned by mistake, they would immediately burn you again.
我听说过一些关于一些传统文化的故事，当你被错误地烧伤时，他们会立即再次烧伤你。
And it made me think.
这让我思考。
And then there would not be any burn marks, and there would not be the same side effects.
这样就不会有任何烧伤痕迹，也不会有同样的副作用。
That's the claim.
这就是主张。
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It made me think, what's the source of this?
这让我思考，这一切的根源是什么？
I realized that maybe it allows a certain completion to happen that in the traumatic moment is not there.
我意识到，也许它可以让某种在创伤时刻不存在的完成发生。
So the reexposure, while you're still open, the pores are still open, allows you to reframe the experience, and then the unfolding of the rest of the event is very different.
因此，当你仍然打开时，重新暴露，毛孔仍然打开，允许你重新构建体验，然后事件的其余部分的展开就非常不同了。
This is if you're touching in your practice in the day-to-day, and you're working with people, and you're being touched and people come closer, further away.
就是说，如果你在日常练习中触摸，并且你正在与人一起工作，并且你被触摸，人们变得更近，更远。
It happens naturally.
这是自然发生的。
And if you pass a certain limit and it becomes too much, there is always of course communication that has to be present.
如果你超过了一定的限制并且变得太多，当然总是需要进行沟通。
Certain cultures make this communication pre, certain cultures post.
某些文化使这种沟通成为前置，某些文化使这种沟通成为后置。
The Israeli, for example, post, here pre.
例如，以色列人，帖子，这里是前。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So in Israel they'll say, "That didn't feel good to me," or "That felt good," or "That was fine"?
所以在以色列，他们会说，“这对我来说感觉不太好”，或者“感觉很好”，或者“那很好”？
Ido Portal:
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Yeah, it would be more common.
是的，这会更常见。
Here in the airport, the guy is telling me, "I'm going to slide my hands up towards your crotch until I meet a hard stop." And then he does this in a way that is supposed to show me, "I have no enjoyment in that." And for me it just feels aggressive.
在机场，那个家伙告诉我，“我要把我的手滑向你的胯部，直到遇到紧急情况为止。”然后他这样做的方式应该是向我表明：“我对此没有任何乐趣。”对我来说，这只是一种侵略性的感觉。
But his intention is good, showing me.
但他的意图是好的，向我展示了。
But if it was a loving touch, it would be nicer for me, actually, personally.
但如果这是一种爱的接触，实际上对我个人来说会更好。
It would be gentle.
会很温柔。
But he goes up there and he shows me, "I have no enjoyment in this." That's my testicle right there.
但他走到那里并向我展示，“我对此没有任何乐趣。”那是我的睾丸。
So it's different choices.
所以是不同的选择。
I don't think it's worse.
我不认为情况更糟。
But this description can be a bit dissociated.
但这个描述可能有点游离。
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And what does it make me think?
这让我想到什么？
Is it truly what he feels or not?
这是他真实的感受还是不是？
Because it feels robotic.
因为它给人一种机械化的感觉。
So sometimes I'd rather not say it, "And I'm going to touch your chest." I'm just place my hand on the chest.
所以有时候我宁愿不说，“我会摸你的胸部。”我只是把手放在胸口上。
And of course we can't avoid the problem.
当然我们也无法回避这个问题。
I'm not suggesting that there is.
我并不是说有。
But there is an examination.
但有一个考试。
Because I moved around the world, I've seen many things, and I've seen benefits here, benefits there.
因为我走遍了世界各地，我看到了很多东西，我看到了这里的好处，那里的好处。
In the practice, I think it's important to discuss this, to examine this.
在实践中，我认为讨论这个、检验这个很重要。
I don't have a solution, but it's something to talk about.
我没有解决方案，但这是值得讨论的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It is something to talk about, and I'm glad you raised it because I think that it's so clear to me that much of the value of a movement practice involves this dynamic interaction with somebody else.
这是值得谈论的事情，我很高兴你提出这个问题，因为我认为我很清楚，运动练习的大部分价值都涉及与其他人的动态互动。
As you pointed out, it can be performed on one's own and practiced throughout one's day, but the unpredictability is a key element to all of it.
正如您所指出的，它可以独自执行并全天练习，但不可预测性是所有这一切的关键因素。
And in bringing out all the potential that you've described in reference to this notion of trauma and burn and reburn, my colleague at Stanford David Spiegel, he works on trauma.
我在斯坦福大学的同事戴维·斯皮格尔（David Spiegel）在发挥你所描述的关于创伤、烧伤和再烧伤概念的所有潜力时，他致力于研究创伤。
Actually, on this podcast, he voiced that he is against things like trigger warnings because of the way that it puts the nervous system into this state of readiness and reactivity that can exacerbate problems, whereas it's very clear from the literature on trauma and trauma relief that the way to deal with that is through a controlled but clearly a controlled reexposure to the trauma in order to diminish the emotional response over time.
事实上，在这个播客中，他表示他反对诸如触发警告之类的事情，因为它会让神经系统进入这种准备和反应状态，这可能会加剧问题，而从有关创伤和创伤缓解的文献中可以清楚地看出，解决这个问题的方法是通过受控但显然是受控的重新暴露于创伤，以便随着时间的推移减少情绪反应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, it's very clear, if we avoid the thing.
我的意思是，如果我们避免这件事，那就很清楚了。
Obviously, we don't want to reinjure ourselves or retraumatize, but if one avoids the thing that makes them upset over and over, all it does is serve to create a heightened state of readiness.
显然，我们不想再次伤害自己或再次受到创伤，但如果一个人一次又一次地避免让他们心烦意乱的事情，那么它所做的只是创造一种高度的准备状态。
It primes more trauma.
它会引发更多的创伤。
So I think it makes good sense.
所以我认为这是有道理的。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
I think impressions are very useful here also when stepping into an area in which trauma can occur and then by going through the impression that it already occurred, you create some kind of a thermal layer of protection.
我认为，当进入可能发生创伤的区域时，印象在这里也非常有用，然后通过经历已经发生的印象，您可以创建某种热保护层。
So I've already been hit when I'm entering that space.
所以当我进入那个空间时我就已经被击中了。
So beneficial.
如此有益。
Or I've already been touched in a way that I didn't like if I go to a contact improvisation class, and just running this scenario in your head protects so well.
或者，如果我去参加即兴创作课程，我已经以一种我不喜欢的方式被感动了，而在你的脑海中运行这个场景就可以很好地保护我。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm glad you mentioned running scenarios in your head.
我很高兴你提到了你脑海中的运行场景。
I've been curious all day as to whether or not you do visualization or mental rehearsal of physical movement.
我一整天都很好奇你是否对身体动作进行了想象或心理演练。
It seems to be a popular idea in the States.
这似乎是美国的一个流行想法。
People are always asking me, "Can you just imagine a movement and learn it better than were you to actually perform it?" My hunch and my understanding of the scientific literature is that visualization can be useful to some extent for people that are very good at visualization, but for many people it doesn't help, and that there's nothing like real physical practice to improve physical practice.
人们总是问我：“你能想象一个动作并比实际执行它更好地学习它吗？”我的预感和我对科学文献的理解是，可视化对于那些非常擅长可视化的人来说在某种程度上是有用的，但对于许多人来说它没有帮助，而且没有什么比真正的身体练习更能改善身体练习了。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Yeah, the word visualization is not good, obviously.
是的，显然“可视化”这个词不好。
It has to be experientialization in a very complete way, not just visually, of course.
当然，它必须以非常完整的方式进行体验，而不仅仅是视觉上的。
And unless you already developed certain experience, tangible experience that has benefited from feedback, from outside feedback, it is not a very useful thing to do, and it ends up being fabrications.
除非你已经积累了一定的经验，从反馈、外部反馈中受益的有形经验，否则这不是一件非常有用的事情，而且最终会成为捏造的东西。
But if you are very experienced and you already gained the benefit of being burned here or overextended here, then you have a certain experience and then you can strengthen certain aspects of it.
但如果你经验丰富，你已经获得了在这里被烧伤或在这里过度延伸的好处，那么你就有了一定的经验，然后你可以加强它的某些方面。
But you got to be careful, because you do not have feedback, and because of the missing feedback you might develop delusions.
但你必须小心，因为你没有反馈，而由于缺少反馈，你可能会产生妄想。
It might be that you develop a stronger patterning, but ultimately this would lead you away from the aliveness of the movement itself.
也许你会形成一种更强的模式，但最终这会让你远离运动本身的活力。
Drilling, for example.
例如，钻孔。
Very useful to learn a general infrastructure of the movement sleeve or the technique.
对于学习运动套筒或技术的一般基础设施非常有用。
But then to dress it up, you need feedback.
但要打扮它，你需要反馈。
You need it to be alive.
你需要它才能活着。
You need to receive something corrective.
您需要接受一些纠正措施。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love it.
我喜欢它。
For many people, they approach movement in the form of weight training or yoga or running ...
对于许多人来说，他们以重量训练、瑜伽或跑步的形式进行运动......
yoga is a bit more dynamic ...
瑜伽更有活力一点......
but fairly linear types of exercise and movement, Peloton, rowing, these kinds of things.
但相当线性的锻炼和运动类型，如大部队、划船等。
I think most people will probably not depart from those practices entirely because they like them.
我认为大多数人可能不会因为喜欢而完全放弃这些做法。
I'm speaking about myself.
我说的是我自己。
I like some of those very much.
我非常喜欢其中一些。
I enjoy them.
我喜欢它们。
But in terms of thinking about adding a movement practice to one's already existing exercise regime, I can imagine threading it throughout the day.
但就考虑在现有的锻炼制度中添加运动练习而言，我可以想象将其贯穿一整天。
I can imagine having a dedicated movement practice.
我可以想象进行专门的运动练习。
One thing that I have started doing on the basis of some of your teachings ...
我根据您的一些教导开始做一件事......
and I just sort of created this idea ...
我只是想出了这个想法......
is rather than statically standing there and lifting weights, actually walking from, as I alternate repetitions.
不是静态地站在那里举重，而是实际步行，当我交替重复时。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It occurred to me that I had never done curl, a bicep curl with one foot in front of the other and then I'd never actually switched that up.
我突然意识到，我从来没有做过弯举，即一只脚放在另一只脚前面的二头肌弯举，然后我从来没有真正改变过它。
It's kind of an odd stance to be standing in parallel and curling one's arm.
平行站立并弯曲手臂是一种奇怪的姿势。
It's kind of a ridiculous movement when one thinks about it.
仔细想想，这是一种可笑的举动。
So I started incorporating some of that.
所以我开始融入其中的一些内容。
You get some strange looks in the gym, but I just give them strange looks back.
在健身房里你会看到一些奇怪的目光，但我也只是回以奇怪的目光。
So what are your thoughts about these very linear forms of exercise, and do you encourage people to expand the play space, as it were, for these kinds of exercise?
那么，您对这些非常线性的锻炼形式有何看法？您是否鼓励人们为此类锻炼扩大游戏空间？
Or do you think that movement practice is just best explored through three dimensionality, gravity, and maybe a stick or a ball?
或者你认为运动练习最好通过三维、重力、也许是一根棍子或一个球来探索？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
It's definitely a problem and it's approachable.
这绝对是一个问题，而且是可以解决的。
People want quick.
人们想要快点。
People want hack.
人们想要破解。
People want the icing.
人们想要锦上添花。
There is no cake.
没有蛋糕。
There is no cake.
没有蛋糕。
It's just industries of icing, icing, icing on what?
这只是锦上添花的行业，锦上添花，锦上添花什么？
What are you putting it on?
你把它戴什么？
So for me, that's why I'm going towards this side.
所以对我来说，这就是我走向这一边的原因。
It's like I have my life, now tell me what movement practices I should pursue.
就像我有我的生活一样，现在告诉我我应该追求什么运动练习。
You are movement in essence, you are not thinking of yourself in any serious way through my eyes.
你本质上是运动，在我眼里你并没有以任何严肃的方式思考你自己。
There is a dynamic entity to you.
你有一个动态的实体。
The body is a huge part of it.
身体是其中很大的一部分。
Communicating.
沟通。
You have genetic layers.
你有遗传层。
There is personalities that got developed and built around various influences.
有些人格是在各种影响下发展和建立的。
But then there is also some kind of an essence, something that reeks from within the cells.
但也有某种本质，某种从细胞内散发出来的气味。
If you grew up in my family and I grew up in your family and it would still be the same, and it's something that I always try to think about.
如果你在我的家庭长大，我在你的家庭长大，情况仍然是一样的，这是我一直在努力思考的事情。
What is that inside of me?
我的内心是什么？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
So I think these practices, they are very good, but they are not designed for the gold we think they were designed to.
所以我认为这些做法非常好，但它们并不是为我们认为的黄金而设计的。
It orients towards something else.
它面向其他事物。
For example, yoga, there is a good book called "The Yoga Body" which will destroy a lot of people's yoga practice.
比如瑜伽，有一本好书叫《瑜伽身体》，它会毁了很多人的瑜伽练习。
It goes into how did we get to this yoga, the influence of Swedish gymnastics and Mongolian contortionists and the West affecting it, and then the ancient practice, which was merely asana-related, posture, position.
它涉及我们如何获得这种瑜伽，瑞典体操和蒙古柔术运动员的影响以及西方对它的影响，然后是古代的练习，它仅仅是与体式、姿势、位置相关的。
So, actually, you said yoga is less linear.
所以，实际上，你说瑜伽不太线性。
Yoga is very linear these days.
如今瑜伽非常线性。
These lines, look at all the traditional dances.
这些台词，看看所有的传统舞蹈。
They look nothing like yoga.
它们看起来一点也不像瑜伽。
Look at Thai dance, look at Chinese dances, martial arts.
看看泰国舞蹈，看看中国舞蹈、武术。
It's all rounded.
都是圆圆的。
It's all curve.
都是曲线啊
It's like out nature, what you see in nature and the movement of the animals.
这就像我们在大自然中所看到的以及动物的活动。
So where does it come from?
那么它从哪里来呢？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
These are things to understand, because it designs you now.
这些都是需要理解的事情，因为它现在就设计了你。
It shapes you.
它塑造了你。
You're placing yourself in these forces of change and these streams of change.
你将自己置身于这些变革力量和变革潮流之中。
And you have a good intention.
而且你的意图是好的。
You just want this or that.
你只是想要这个或那个。
But the joke is on us.
但笑话是在我们身上。
And this is ...
这是...
the movement practice for me is first education.
运动练习对我来说是第一教育。
Start to think about this.
开始思考这个问题。
I have nothing that I can just sprinkle now some magic powder that will help resolve this, because it's a start of a deep investigation.
我没有什么可以现在撒一些魔法粉来帮助解决这个问题，因为这是深入调查的开始。
And then some of the things let's talk pragmatically, because what you described is not about you placing the foot in front when you're curling.
然后有些事情让我们务实地谈谈，因为你所描述的并不是在卷曲时将脚放在前面。
It's about the examination.
是关于考试的事。
This is why it is a very good direction.
这就是为什么它是一个非常好的方向。
And then you will need another one, another one, don't get stuck on that foot in front of it, and try to do with the eyes closed or with a different head posture, and you will see things arrive, unrelated things, because the associative mind, the thinking, this relates, this doesn't get to the heart of it.
然后你将需要另一只，另一只，不要卡在前面的那只脚上，并尝试闭上眼睛或以不同的头部姿势来做，你会看到事物到达，不相关的事物，因为联想的头脑，思考，这是相关的，这并没有触及它的核心。
Never.
绝不。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
So just infusing these elements, like in a cup, will create endless combinations, possibilities, and a lot of discovery.
因此，只需注入这些元素，就像注入杯子一样，就会创造出无限的组合、可能性和大量的发现。
And this for me is humility of the practitioner.
对我来说，这就是修行者的谦逊。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I try.
我尝试一下。
Today, with you, I tried various combinations and I discovered something.
今天，和你一起，我尝试了各种组合，我发现了一些东西。
This is a playful approach and this is a researcher approach.
这是一种有趣的方法，也是一种研究人员的方法。
I don't try to fit my truth into something.
我不会试图将我的真理融入到某件事中。
I'm there to examine.
我是来检查的
I don't have a motive yet.
我还没有动机。
Why?
为什么？
Because I'm fine.
因为我很好。
I don't depend on that to define myself.
我不依赖于此来定义自己。
I'm a human being.
我是一个人。
But if I don't have that sense of worth, I'm already geared towards "I need to do this, I need to prove this, I have this agenda," and this is how we get all the lies in the world and all the problems and difficulties.
但如果我没有那种价值感，我就已经倾向于“我需要这样做，我需要证明这一点，我有这个议程”，这就是我们如何得到世界上所有谎言以及所有问题和困难的方式。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
So these practices, they are related to it, to prove this, that this way why we need muscles for X, Y, Z.
所以这些练习，它们与之相关，为了证明这一点，这就是为什么我们需要肌肉来控制 X、Y、Z。
And a lot of the reported outcomes are often, from my place, is like funny.
从我的角度来看，许多报道的结果往往很有趣。
I hear about something, like I heard you say about gratitude practice, that actually experience it from outside, as if somebody else or you are receiving gratitude, is actually more powerful.
我听说过一些事情，就像我听到你说的感恩练习一样，从外部实际体验它，就好像别人或你正在接受感恩一样，实际上更强大。
It's true, but I see why it's true.
这是真的，但我明白为什么这是真的。
I'm not sure everybody sees.
我不确定每个人都看到了。
If somebody tries to feel gratitude, just sit with their eyes closed or watch a movie and sense the gratitude there, it would be clear to you.
如果有人试图表达感激之情，只要闭上眼睛坐着或看电影，感受那里的感激之情，你就会很清楚。
One is very difficult to do and the other is very easy.
一个很难做到，另一个却很容易。
Hence, if gratitude is achieved easier this way, that's why it works like that.
因此，如果通过这种方式更容易表达感激之情，那就是为什么它会这样运作。
Although, all the traditional practices are about you and by challenging yourself to sense that gratitude yourself, they achieve much more powerful thing.
虽然，所有传统做法都是关于你的，通过挑战自己去感受感激之情，它们会取得更强大的效果。
But this is not the research people, the people in the research.
但这不是研究的人，而是研究中的人。
We don't have a lot of those people.
我们这样的人并不多。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
So a lot of the things that can arrive to us, weight training, the benefits or the way that the hormonal effect, the effect over cognition, et cetera when you open a bit and you go far out, you see certain things.
因此，我们可以得到很多东西，举重训练、好处或荷尔蒙效应、对认知的影响等，当你稍微打开一点，走得更远时，你会看到某些东西。
Not the truth, but maybe less delusion.
不是事实，但也许不是错觉。
There is nothing definite, but there is something maybe more wholesome that appears.
没有什么是确定的，但有一些可能更有益的东西出现了。
Yeah.
是的。
I think this is a state of exploration.
我觉得这是一种探索的状态。
I don't want to have the same thought if I already had it.
如果我已经有过同样的想法，我不想再有同样的想法了。
Why would I want to have the same thought?
为什么我会有同样的想法？
I already had it.
我已经拥有了。
I don't want to have the same practice.
我不想有同样的做法。
I don't want to.
我不想。
I curled already in this way.
我已经这样卷曲了。
I want to experience something else.
我想体验一些别的东西。
There is a benefit to gain.
有一个好处可以得到。
No, but that was better.
不，但那样更好。
The better is better.
越好越好。
It's not more.
还不是更多。
It's not faster.
这并没有更快。
Better is better.
更好就是更好。
And better is ...
更好的是...
we don't know what better is, right?
我们不知道什么是更好，对吧？
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
So it's open.
所以它是开放的。
"Oh, this is better." I don't know.
“噢，这样更好了。”我不知道。
It's just more weight.
只是重量比较重而已。
It's one more kilo.
又多了一斤。
But maybe if I remove one kilo, I discover something, like, for example, power development.
但也许如果我减掉一公斤，我就会发现一些东西，比如力量的发展。
That has been shown to gain certain benefits when you lighten the load and you accelerate it more in certain conditions.
事实证明，当您减轻负载并在某些条件下加速时，这会带来一定的好处。
But who discovered it?
但是谁发现的呢？
A practitioner.
一个实践者。
A math person.
一个数学人。
Not Verkhoshansky, Zatsiorsky.
不是维尔霍尚斯基，而是扎齐奥尔斯基。
They reported something, but it was already within the grasp of the practitioners.
他们报道了一些事情，但这些事情已经在学员的掌握之中了。
I think as a researcher this is very powerful, to remind yourself this and to work with that, and as a practitioner, as a living human being, for everyone, I think something very useful.
我认为作为一名研究人员，这非常强大，可以提醒自己这一点并与之合作，作为一名实践者，作为一个活生生的人，对每个人来说，我认为这都是非常有用的。
And then those plays that you're doing it, people give you the weird looks, and it's like I tell people, "You don't want to be normal." If you don't get the weird looks, you're not moving in the right direction.
然后你正在做的那些戏剧，人们给你奇怪的表情，就像我告诉人们，“你不想变得正常。”如果你没有看到奇怪的表情，那么你就没有朝着正确的方向前进。
You're moving in a very fixed ...
你正在以非常固定的方式移动......
and you already know the result of that direction, let's say.
比方说，你已经知道那个方向的结果。
At least that.
至少是这样。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
So continue to play with that.
所以继续玩这个。
Continue to play.
继续玩。
Look elsewhere.
看看别处吧。
Look at places you didn't look at, because this is still within the same layer, one foot in front, one foot behind.
看看没看的地方，因为这还在同一层内，一脚在前，一脚在后。
What happens when you do it with a smile, the same workout, and when you do it with a frown?
当你微笑着做同样的锻炼时，如果你皱着眉头做，会发生什么？
Or what happens, breath holding or blood restrictions?
或者会发生什么，屏气或血液限制？
All this is great play and I think very beneficial to do, to go through.
所有这些都是很棒的游戏，我认为去做、经历这些都是非常有益的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Love it.
喜欢它。
I think it's a wonderful message.
我认为这是一个很棒的信息。
What I keep hearing from you over and over again is that people should explore, explore, explore.
我一遍又一遍地从你那里听到的是，人们应该探索、探索、再探索。
And listen, I want to thank you for your time today, first of all, for the incredible teachings here at this table, but also the introduction to a movement practice.
听着，我要感谢你们今天抽出时间，首先感谢你们在这个桌子上令人难以置信的教导，还有对运动练习的介绍。
Although, now I'm tempted to say that I've been moving my whole life.
尽管如此，现在我很想说我一生都在搬家。
I just-
我只是——
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
That's true.
确实如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
didn't know that it was such a vast landscape.
却不知道这里的风景如此辽阔。
Also, your willingness to tread out in this journey that is truly unique.
此外，您愿意踏上这段真正独特的旅程。
The greatest compliment that one can give in science is the one that I'm going to tell you now, because it's entirely appropriate, which is we say you're an N-of-one, right?
在科学领域，人们所能给予的最大的赞美就是我现在要告诉你的，因为它是完全恰当的，也就是说，我们说你是一个“N-of-One”，对吗？
And you truly are.
你确实是。
I don't think there's anyone that has been as willing to embrace existing practices, evolve them, create new practices, and to share so broadly, to really be willing to give and teach so much knowledge.
我认为没有人愿意接受现有的实践，发展它们，创造新的实践，并如此广泛地分享，真正愿意提供和传授如此多的知识。
Earlier you made the mention of your goals of ...
早些时候您提到了您的目标......
in part of being wild and wise, and I'm here to tell you that you are both wild and wise.
我来这里是为了告诉你，你既狂野又聪明。
And so thank you so much.
非常感谢。
Ido Portal:
伊多门户：
Thank you very much.
非常感谢。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me today for my discussion about the science and practice of movement and movement culture with Ido Portal.
感谢您今天与我一起通过 Ido Portal 讨论运动和运动文化的科学与实践。
If you'd like to learn more about Ido and his workshops and other aspects of what he does, please go to his social media.
如果您想了解更多关于 Ido 和他的工作室以及他所做的其他方面的信息，请访问他的社交媒体。
His Instagram handle is Portal, P-O-R-T-A-L, dot Ido, I-D-O.
他的 Instagram 昵称是 Portal、P-O-R-T-A-L、dot Ido、I-D-O。
You can also go to idoportal.com and there, there are tremendous number of resources that will lead you to more information about what he does.
您还可以访问 idoportal.com，那里有大量资源，可帮助您了解有关他的工作的更多信息。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
As well, please subscribe to our podcast on Spotify and Apple.
另外，请订阅我们在 Spotify 和 Apple 上的播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you have the opportunity to leave us up to a five-star review.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都有机会给我们留下五星级的评价。
On Apple, you can also leave us comments and feedback, and if you have suggestions about topics or podcast guests that you'd like us to cover on the podcast, if you have criticism or questions, please put those in the comment section on YouTube.
在 Apple 上，您还可以给我们留下评论和反馈，如果您对希望我们在播客中报道的主题或播客嘉宾有建议，如果您有批评或问题，请在 YouTube 上的评论部分提出。
We do read all those comments.
我们确实阅读了所有这些评论。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning of today's podcast.
另请查看今天播客开头提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
Not on today's episode, but on many previous episodes of the Huberman Lab podcast, we discuss supplements.
不是在今天的节目中，而是在 Huberman Lab 播客的许多之前的节目中，我们讨论了补充剂。
While supplements aren't necessary for everybody, many people derive tremendous benefit from them or could derive tremendous benefit from them.
虽然补充剂并不是每个人都需要的，但许多人从中获得了巨大的好处，或者可以从中获得巨大的好处。
For that reason, the Huberman Lab podcast has decided to partner with Momentous.
因此，Huberman Lab 播客决定与 Momentous 合作。
We decided to partner with Momentous, because, first of all, they are of the absolute highest quality.
我们决定与 Momentous 合作，因为首先，他们绝对具有最高的质量。
Second of all, they ship anywhere in the world.
其次，它们可以运送到世界任何地方。
And third, we wanted to have one site that people could go to where they could find the supplements that are discussed on this podcast in the various dosages and single-ingredient forms that we often suggest or point people to on the podcast.
第三，我们希望建立一个网站，人们可以在那里找到我们经常在播客上建议或指出的各种剂量和单一成分形式的补充剂，该播客中讨论了这些补充剂。
So if you'd like to see the supplements that I take or that have been mentioned on the podcast, please go to livemomentous.com/huberman and they're listed there as well as available there.
因此，如果您想查看我服用的补充剂或播客中提到的补充剂，请访问 livemomentous.com/huberman，它们已在那里列出并可供使用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're not already following us on social media, we are Huberman Lab on both Instagram and Twitter.
如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我们，我们在 Instagram 和 Twitter 上都是 Huberman Lab。
Both places, I do short posts about science and science-related tools, some of which overlap with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast and others of which are distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在这两个地方，我都发表了有关科学和科学相关工具的简短帖子，其中一些与 Huberman Lab 播客的内容重叠，而另一些则与 Huberman Lab 播客上的信息不同。
So, again, that's Huberman Lab on Twitter and Huberman Lab on Instagram.
再说一次，这就是 Twitter 上的 Huberman Lab 和 Instagram 上的 Huberman Lab。
We also have a newsletter that many people find useful.
我们还有一份对很多人来说很有用的时事通讯。
This is a completely zero-cost newsletter.
这是一份完全零成本的时事通讯。
You can find it by going to hubermanlab.com, click on the menu and go to "newsletter," and you sign up with your email.
您可以访问 hubermanlab.com 找到它，单击菜单并转到“时事通讯”，然后使用电子邮件进行注册。
We do not share your email with anybody, and we have a very clear privacy policy listed there.
我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件，并且我们在那里列出了非常明确的隐私政策。
You can also get access at the very same site to newsletters from the past to see if those newsletters are indeed of interest to you.
您还可以在同一网站上访问过去的时事通讯，看看您是否确实对这些时事通讯感兴趣。
We have newsletters about a toolkit for sleep, for instance, or a neuroplasticity super protocol that incorporates a lot of different podcast episodes and themes that you might find useful.
例如，我们有关于睡眠工具包的时事通讯，或者神经可塑性超级协议，其中包含许多不同的播客剧集和主题，您可能会觉得有用。
Again, that's hubermanlab.com and go to the menu and click on newsletter and sign up.
同样，这是 hubermanlab.com，转到菜单并单击新闻通讯并注册。
And last, but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但同样重要的是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。
PART 5 OF 5 ENDS
第 5 部分（共 5 部分）结束