How to Lose Fat with Science-Based Tools
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
This podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
Today is the third episode in our series of episodes about physical and athletic skill performance and skill learning in general, and today we're going to talk about the science of tools for fat loss.
今天是我们关于身体和运动技能表现以及一般技能学习系列的第三集，今天我们将讨论减肥工具的科学。
And fat loss is something that interests a large number of people.
而减脂是很多人感兴趣的事情。
Many people want to lose fat.
很多人都想减掉脂肪。
Many people are athletes who need to lose fat.
很多人都是运动员，需要减脂。
And in general, we know that having body fat percentages that are too high is unhealthy for us.
一般来说，我们知道体脂百分比过高对我们来说是不健康的。
And most people struggle to lose fat.
大多数人都在努力减肥。
Most people struggle to lose weight generally, but most people especially struggle to lose body fat or what we call adipose tissue.
一般来说，大多数人都在努力减肥，但大多数人尤其在减掉体内脂肪或我们所说的脂肪组织方面遇到困难。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, this is a huge topic on the Internet.
现在，这是互联网上的一个大话题。
There's a lot of controversy.
有很多争议。
Today, we're going to talk about some things related to fat loss, and that are powerful for fat loss, that I'm guessing most of you have never heard about before.
今天我们就来聊聊一些与减脂有关的事情，那些对减脂很有帮助的事情，我猜你们大多数人以前都没有听说过。
You may have heard about a few of them, but I'm guessing you haven't heard about all of them.
您可能听说过其中一些，但我猜您还没有听说过全部。
This episode is going to be rich with science-based tools that are gleaned from a variety of aspects of the literature, including the use of cold, including brown fat, including something called beige fat.
这一集将包含丰富的基于科学的工具，这些工具是从文献的各个方面收集的，包括使用寒冷，包括棕色脂肪，包括一种叫做米色脂肪的东西。
We're going to talk about something called NEAT.
我们要讨论的是 NEAT。
We're going to talk about all sorts of aspects of fat loss that are governed by your nervous system.
我们将讨论由神经系统控制的减脂的各个方面。
And this is, I think, an important gap that's missing in the discussion about fat loss.
我认为，这是有关减脂的讨论中所遗漏的一个重要空白。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You can hear a lot of information out there about the role of things like insulin and various diets, like ketogenic diets, or vegan diets or Mediterranean diets.
您可以听到很多有关胰岛素和各种饮食（例如生酮饮食、纯素饮食或地中海饮食）的作用的信息。
And there's some great stuff out there, and there's some really terrible information out there.
那里有一些很棒的东西，也有一些非常糟糕的信息。
And there's a lot of controversy.
并且存在很多争议。
We did a number of episodes talking about the role of hormones on metabolism and the role of food on mood and wellbeing.
我们做了很多集讨论激素对新陈代谢的作用以及食物对情绪和健康的作用。
So if you're interested in those topics, please check them out.
因此，如果您对这些主题感兴趣，请查看它们。
I will touch a little bit on hormones today, things like insulin and leptin just a little bit, but today's episode is mainly going to be focused on how the nervous system, neurons and some of the cells they collaborate with like glia and macrophages, how those encourage, or can encourage accelerated fat loss, because it turns out they can.
今天我会稍微谈一下激素，比如胰岛素和瘦素，但今天的节目主要集中在神经系统、神经元和一些与之合作的细胞（如神经胶质细胞和巨噬细胞）如何促进或可以促进加速减脂，因为事实证明它们可以。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Remember, your nervous system, which includes your brain and your spinal cord and all the connections that they make with the organs of the body, governs everything.
请记住，您的神经系统（包括您的大脑和脊髓以及它们与身体器官的所有连接）控制着一切。
It's the on switch and the off switch for immune system.
它是免疫系统的开关。
It's the on switch and the off switch, it turns out, also for fat burning.
事实证明，这也是燃烧脂肪的开关。
And so the nervous system and the role of the brain and other neurons has been vastly overlooked in the discussion about losing fat.
因此，在关于减肥的讨论中，神经系统以及大脑和其他神经元的作用被极大地忽视了。
Now, I would be remiss, and I'd probably come under a pretty considerable attack if I didn't just acknowledge upfront a core truth of metabolic science and also of neuroscience, frankly, which is that calories in versus calories out, meaning how many calories you ingest versus how many calories you burn, is the fundamental and most important formula in this business of fat loss and weight management in general.
现在，我将是失职的，如果我不直接承认代谢科学和神经科学的核心事实，坦率地说，我可能会受到相当大的攻击，即卡路里摄入与卡路里消耗，即你摄入多少卡路里与你燃烧多少卡路里，是减脂和体重管理这一行业的基本和最重要的公式。
There's simply no way around the fact that if you ingest far more calories than you burn, you're likely to gain weight, and a good portion of that weight is likely to be adipose tissue fat.
无法回避的事实是，如果您摄入的卡路里远多于燃烧的卡路里，您的体重可能会增加，而体重的很大一部分可能是脂肪组织脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's also true that if you ingest fewer calories than you burn, that you will lose weight, and that a significant portion of that will come from body fat.
如果你摄入的卡路里少于燃烧的卡路里，你的体重就会减轻，而其中很大一部分来自体内脂肪，这也是事实。
What portion depends on the number of factors, but that simple formula is important.
哪个部分取决于因素的数量，但这个简单的公式很重要。
On a previous episode, I mentioned the complications with the statement of a calorie is a calorie.
在上一集中，我提到了“卡路里就是卡路里”这一说法的复杂性。
And indeed, there is evidence — from, for instance, Robert Lustig, who's a pediatric endocrinologist at UC San Francisco, has talked about how highly processed foods changed the way that we utilize food and can lead to higher incidences of obesity and other metabolic syndromes — that go against the idea that a calorie is a calorie and that's it.
事实上，有证据——例如，加州大学旧金山分校的儿科内分泌学家罗伯特·勒斯蒂格（Robert Lustig）谈到了高度加工食品如何改变我们利用食物的方式，并可能导致肥胖和其他代谢综合征的发病率更高——这与“卡路里就是卡路里”的观点相悖。
So a calorie is a calorie as a unit of energy.
因此，卡路里是作为能量单位的卡路里。
And we need to accept and acknowledge this calories in, meaning calories ingested, versus calories burned formula.
我们需要接受并承认配方中的卡路里，即摄入的卡路里与燃烧的卡路里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But the calories burned portion is strongly influenced by a number of things that you can control that can greatly accelerate or increase the amount of adipose tissue or the proportion of adipose tissue that you burn in response to exercise and food.
但是燃烧的卡路里部分受到许多您可以控制的因素的强烈影响，这些因素可以大大加速或增加脂肪组织的数量或您因运动和食物而燃烧的脂肪组织的比例。
So your hormones are important, your thermogenic milieu, meaning how warm or how cold your body is, how cold you make it, how warm you make it, but also your level of metabolism, your levels of thyroid hormone, and something that's hardly ever discussed but is well supported by the scientific literature, how much innervation, meaning how much connectivity there is between your nervous system and fat.
所以你的荷尔蒙很重要，你的产热环境，意味着你的身体有多暖或多冷，你的身体有多冷，你的身体有多温暖，还有你的新陈代谢水平，你的甲状腺激素水平，以及一些几乎从未讨论过但得到科学文献充分支持的东西，有多少神经支配，意味着你的神经系统和脂肪之间有多少连接。
Today, we're going to talk about the fact that your body fat of various kinds, and there are several kinds of body fat, are actually innervated by neurons.
今天，我们要讨论的事实是，你的各种身体脂肪，而且有好几种身体脂肪，实际上是由神经元支配的。
Neurons connect to your body fat and can change the probability that that body fat will be burned or not.
神经元与您的身体脂肪相连，可以改变身体脂肪燃烧或不燃烧的可能性。
So your nervous system is the master controller of this process, and it plays a strong role in the calories out, the calories burned component.
所以你的神经系统是这个过程的主控制器，它在卡路里消耗、卡路里燃烧成分中发挥着重要作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So as usual, we're going to discuss a little bit of science.
像往常一样，我们将讨论一些科学知识。
I promise I won't go too deep into lipolysis and all sorts of things related to fat oxidation.
我保证我不会太深入地讨论脂肪分解和与脂肪氧化相关的各种事情。
We're going to break down that process into two important steps.
我们将把这个过程分解为两个重要的步骤。
And if you can understand those two important steps, then the rest of the tools will be very straightforward to understand and manage.
如果您能够理解这两个重要步骤，那么其余工具将非常容易理解和管理。
And I do believe that today you will walk away with many new tools, that you could incorporate into any kind of fat-loss regimen, that will greatly accelerate that process, because it's grounded in quality peer-reviewed science.
我确实相信，今天您将获得许多新工具，您可以将其纳入任何类型的减肥方案中，这将大大加速这一过程，因为它基于高质量的同行评审科学。
Throughout the episode, I'm going to talk about some behavioral tools.
在整个节目中，我将讨论一些行为工具。
In fact, I'll mostly talk about behavioral tools.
事实上，我主要讨论的是行为工具。
I will also talk about compounds, supplements.
我还将谈论化合物、补充剂。
Many of you are into supplements.
你们中的许多人都喜欢补充剂。
Some of you aren't, and that's fine.
你们中有些人不是，那很好。
For those of you that are into supplements, an important issue in a discussion about supplements for fat loss, or otherwise, is going to be the quality of those supplements and the accuracy about what's in those supplement bottles and tablets, et cetera.
对于那些热衷于补充剂的人来说，在讨论减肥补充剂或其他方面的一个重要问题是这些补充剂的质量以及这些补充剂瓶和片剂等内容的准确性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I usually mention this at the end of the podcast, but this podcast we've partnered with Thorne, T-H-O-R-N-E, because Thorne, we believe, has the highest levels of stringency in terms of the quality of the compounds in their supplements and the amounts of those compounds.
我通常在播客末尾提到这一点，但这个播客我们与 Thorne，T-H-O-R-N-E 合作，因为我们相信，Thorne 在补充剂中化合物的质量和这些化合物的含量方面具有最高水平的严格性。
If you want to see the supplements I take, you can go to thorne.com/u/huberman.
如果您想查看我服用的补充剂，可以访问 thorne.com/u/huberman。
You can see the supplements that I take.
你可以看看我服用的补充剂。
That will also allow you to get 20% off any of those supplements or 20% off any of the other supplements that Thorne makes.
您还可以享受任何这些补充剂 20% 的折扣，或索恩生产的任何其他补充剂 20% 的折扣。
Thorne has partnered with the Mayo Clinic and all the major sports teams, so there's a very strong basis for their stringency.
索恩与梅奥诊所和所有主要运动队都有合作，因此他们的严格性有非常坚实的基础。
Again, you don't need to use supplements.
再次强调，您不需要使用补充剂。
I'm certainly not encouraging anyone to use supplements if that's not your thing.
如果你不喜欢的话，我当然不鼓励任何人使用补充剂。
But if you're going to use supplements, make sure that your supplement source is one of very high quality.
但如果您要使用补充剂，请确保您的补充剂来源是高质量的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
With that said, I want to get started and talk about the various tools for fat loss and how neuroscience, neurons, control fat loss.
话虽如此，我想开始讨论各种减脂工具，以及神经科学、神经元如何控制减脂。
Before I do that, I want to set the context correctly and extract some of the key takeaways from previous episodes because if your foundation of health and your foundation of hormones and your foundation of metabolism isn't right, it's going to be very hard to get the most out of any kind of exercise or fat-loss protocol.
在此之前，我想正确设置背景并从之前的章节中提取一些关键要点，因为如果您的健康基础、激素基础和新陈代谢基础不正确，那么将很难从任何类型的锻炼或减脂方案中获得最大收益。
In previous episodes, I talked all about the science and the details going into particular protocols.
在之前的几集中，我谈论了特定协议的科学和细节。
We don't have time to do that now, and I want to get to the new material.
我们现在没有时间这样做，我想了解新材料。
However, there are a couple bins, a couple items, that you should make sure you're getting correctly.
然而，有几个垃圾箱、一些物品，您应该确保正确获取。
And if you're not perfect about these, don't worry about it.
如果您在这些方面并不完美，请不要担心。
Most people are not perfect about them.
大多数人都并不完美。
I'm certainly not perfect about them.
我当然对他们并不完美。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But we should all be striving to get quality and sufficient sleep.
但我们都应该努力获得高质量和充足的睡眠。
I did four full episodes on sleep and how to get better at sleeping, through things like light exposure, temperature, timing your sleep correctly for your so-called chronotype — if you're a night owl or a morning person.
我做了四集关于睡眠的完整剧集，以及如何通过光照、温度、根据所谓的生物钟正确安排睡眠时间（如果你是夜猫子或早起的人）等因素来改善睡眠。
That's the first four or, I think, five episodes of the Huberman Lab podcast.
这是休伯曼实验室播客的前四集，或者我认为是前五集。
Get your sleep right.
保证你的睡眠正常。
Get your light exposure.
获得曝光量。
Avoid bright light in your eyes at times you want to be asleep.
当您想睡觉时，请避免强光照射您的眼睛。
And get bright light in your eyes at times you want to be awake.
当您想保持清醒时，让明亮的光线射入您的眼睛。
So get your sleep right.
所以要保证睡眠。
The other thing is essential fatty acids.
另一件事是必需脂肪酸。
I talked about this in the food and mood episode, but I also talked about it during the hormones episodes.
我在食物和情绪剧集中谈到了这一点，但我也在荷尔蒙剧集中谈到了这一点。
We need fatty acids.
我们需要脂肪酸。
They are vital to so many aspects of our health.
它们对我们健康的许多方面都至关重要。
You don't have to get them from supplements.
您不必从补充剂中获取它们。
You can't if you want to, but you need to get them from your food.
如果你想的话你不能，但你需要从食物中获取它们。
They are essential.
它们是必不可少的。
There's a reason there's an E in the "essential" part there.
“必要”部分有一个 E 是有原因的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of the fatty acids, there are multiple kinds, but for the antidepressant effects, or the levels of fatty acids that will promote good mood and also healthy metabolism and will start to shift the needle in the right direction on bloodborne cardiovascular factors, the key thing is to get the levels of EPA that you ingest above 1000 milligrams per day.
脂肪酸有很多种，但对于抗抑郁作用，或者说促进良好情绪和健康新陈代谢并开始改变血源性心血管因素的脂肪酸水平，关键是让您每天摄入的 EPA 水平超过 1000 毫克。
So that doesn't mean just taking a thousand milligrams or more of say, fish oil, krill oil, or whatever your preferred source is.
因此，这并不意味着只服用一千毫克或更多，例如鱼油、磷虾油或任何您喜欢的来源。
It means getting above a thousand milligrams of EPA, which may require that you ingest more essential fatty acids than just a thousand milligrams per day.
这意味着获得超过 1000 毫克的 EPA，这可能需要您每天摄入比 1000 毫克更多的必需脂肪酸。
That, of course, can be done through food sources, things like fatty fish, or if you're not into eating fish, you have quality meats that are grass-raised can do that.
当然，这可以通过食物来源来实现，比如富含脂肪的鱼，或者如果你不喜欢吃鱼，那么优质的草养肉类也可以做到这一点。
There are other sources of essential fatty acids, of course, also from plant sources.
当然，必需脂肪酸还有其他来源，也包括植物来源。
So look those up online.
所以在网上查找一下。
It's really easy to find.
真的很容易找到。
But the research in the literature shows that you want to get above a thousand milligrams of EPA per day, because that's when you can best support your metabolism and position yourself for good fat loss.
但文献研究表明，您希望每天摄入超过 1000 毫克的 EPA，因为此时您可以最好地支持您的新陈代谢并为自己做好减脂的准备。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As well.
也是如此。
For people who have cravings issues — they crave sweets all the time — I talked about this in the gut/brain episode, and hormones and food, that you have neurons in your gut that are craving, they're seeking essential fatty acids, and they're craving and seeking amino acids from your food.
对于那些有渴望问题的人——他们一直渴望甜食——我在肠道/大脑事件以及激素和食物中谈到了这一点，你的肠道中有渴望的神经元，他们正在寻找必需的脂肪酸，他们渴望并从你的食物中寻找氨基酸。
Now, these are not supplements that they crave per se.
现在，这些并不是他们本身渴望的补充剂。
They're craving those things because that's what your body needs and your brain needs.
他们渴望这些东西，因为那是你的身体和大脑所需要的。
But those same neurons will respond to sugars.
但这些神经元也会对糖做出反应。
And so many people who are craving sugar can satisfy that sugar craving by giving the neurons, so to speak, what they actually want, which are amino acids and essential fatty acids.
许多渴望吃糖的人可以通过向神经元提供他们真正想要的氨基酸和必需脂肪酸来满足对糖的渴望。
That includes EPA, but also things like glutamine, an amino acid that can really reduce sugar cravings.
其中包括 EPA，还包括谷氨酰胺等物质，谷氨酰胺是一种可以真正减少对糖的渴望的氨基酸。
If you take a teaspoon of that or even a tablespoon of that a few times a day.
如果你每天服用几次一茶匙甚至一汤匙。
You have to ease into that a little bit, because some people can get a little bit of GI distress from too much glutamine, but glutamine has also been shown to improve symptoms of leaky gut.
你必须稍微放松一下，因为有些人可能会因为摄入过多的谷氨酰胺而感到一些胃肠道不适，但谷氨酰胺也被证明可以改善肠漏症状。
It's a powerful amino acid, and yes, you can also get it from food, things like cottage cheese are high in glutamine, et cetera.
它是一种强大的氨基酸，是的，你也可以从食物中获取它，像干酪这样的东西富含谷氨酰胺，等等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then finally, you can't really position yourself to have a strong metabolism if your iodine levels aren't correct and your thyroid levels aren't correct.
最后，如果您的碘水平和甲状腺水平不正确，您就无法真正使自己拥有强大的新陈代谢。
You can overdo iodine, so you don't want to do that.
您可能会服用过量的碘，所以您不想这样做。
A lot of table salt has iodine added to it, but some people need to add iodine by ingesting things like kelp, et cetera.
很多食盐中都添加了碘，但有些人需要通过摄入海带等食物来补充碘。
But one of the best ways to support the thyroid system and metabolism in general is to make sure you're getting enough selenium, sometimes called selenium each day.
但支持甲状腺系统和新陈代谢的最佳方法之一是确保您每天摄入足够的硒，有时也称为硒。
Simple way to do that is to ingest the highest concentration of selenium food that I'm aware of, which is Brazil nuts, one or two or three of those per day, you'll have more than enough selenium to meet the thyroid needs.
简单的方法就是摄入我所知道的硒浓度最高的食物，那就是巴西坚果，每天一两三颗，你就会有足够的硒来满足甲状腺的需要。
You don't want your selenium to be too high.
你不希望你的硒含量太高。
You don't want a diet too high in anything.
你不希望饮食中任何东西含量过高。
So again, sleep, sufficient EPAs.
再说一遍，睡觉，充足的 EPA。
Glutamine, if you have issues with leaky gut or sugar cravings, can really help.
如果您有肠漏或对糖的渴望问题，谷氨酰胺确实可以提供帮助。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Get your gut microbiome right.
让你的肠道微生物组保持健康。
I may have missed saying that, but get your gut microbiome right.
我可能漏掉了这一点，但要保证你的肠道微生物组正确。
That does not necessarily mean you need to ingest probiotics.
这并不一定意味着您需要摄入益生菌。
You can if you want to, but you can also just simply ingest a serving or two of fermented foods per day.
如果您愿意的话可以，但您也可以每天只摄入一两份发酵食品。
That can greatly assist, so things like sauerkraut, kimchi.
这可以有很大帮助，比如酸菜、泡菜。
Every culture has a different source, or sources, of fermented foods.
每种文化都有不同的发酵食品来源。
Those can really help the gut microbiome.
这些确实可以帮助肠道微生物组。
And then make sure that your thyroid hormone is supported through the ingestion of sufficient iodine, not too much, and sufficient selenium, not too much.
然后确保通过摄入足够的碘（不要太多）和足够的硒（不要太多）来支持甲状腺激素。
Okay?
好的？
Sleep, EPA, glutamine, fermented foods, iodine, selenium — that sets the basis for how things like exercise, cold, and some of the compounds and other things that we're going to talk about today that are, I'm guessing, going to be truly new to many of you, that can really increase the burn factor in the equation of calories in versus calories burned.
睡眠、EPA、谷氨酰胺、发酵食品、碘、硒——它们为运动、寒冷以及我们今天要讨论的一些化合物和其他东西奠定了基础，我猜对你们中的许多人来说，它们确实是新的，它们可以真正增加卡路里与燃烧卡路里等式中的燃烧系数。
Okay?
好的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So on the one hand, we have this reality of calories in versus calories burned.
因此，一方面，我们了解摄入的卡路里与消耗的卡路里的现实。
However, I would also be remiss if I didn't mention an incredible study that was done by my colleague Alia Crum, at Stanford, she's a faculty member, professor, in the psychology department, looking at how belief effects, just thinking, can impact the effects of things like exercise on weight loss.
然而，如果我没有提到我的同事阿莉亚·克拉姆（Alia Crum）在斯坦福大学所做的一项令人难以置信的研究，她是一名心理学系的教员、教授，那就是我的失职了。这项研究研究了信念如何影响运动等减肥的效果。
These are just incredible results.
这些都是令人难以置信的结果。
What they did was they took subjects, who were hotel service people that would clean the hotels and come in and change the linens and so forth, divide them into two groups.
他们所做的就是把受试者分成两组，这些受试者是酒店服务人员，负责打扫酒店、进来更换床单等。
One group, they were told, "Moving around and doing your duties for your job, meet the standards for U.S. guidelines for activity and movement," et cetera, and a basic lecture about how movement is good for you, et cetera, but mostly just that their daily activities met the standards for the U.S. The other group, however, was given a bunch of information about how movement and their daily routine was very good for cardiovascular health, it could be good for weight loss, et cetera.
一组人被告知，“四处走动，履行你的工作职责，符合美国活动和运动指南的标准”等等，以及关于运动如何对你有益等的基本讲座，但主要是他们的日常活动符合美国的标准。然而，另一组人则被告知大量关于运动和日常生活如何对心血管健康非常有益、可能有益于减肥等的信息。
And then they tracked these subjects over a period of many weeks.
然后他们在几周的时间里跟踪这些主题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The take-home message from this study was that simply being told that movement is good for you, can lead to weight loss, et cetera, led to significantly more body-fat loss, waste-to-hip ratio, changes in the direction that most people would want, essentially a slimming down, if you will, and all sorts of other positive effects on things like cardiovascular health, simply by the knowledge that movement and exercise can help various health markers.
这项研究的主要信息是，仅仅被告知运动对你有好处，可以导致体重减轻等等，导致身体脂肪明显减少，废物与臀部的比率，朝着大多数人想要的方向改变，如果你愿意的话，本质上是减肥，以及对心血管健康等方面的各种其他积极影响，仅仅因为知道运动和锻炼可以帮助各种健康指标。
So this is remarkable, and it speaks to the power of the nervous system and the power of belief in governing aspects of our body and our physiology that one would otherwise think were outside our conscious control.
因此，这是值得注意的，它说明了神经系统的力量以及控制我们身体和生理机能方面的信念的力量，否则人们会认为这些方面超出了我们的意识控制范围。
Now, of course, any of you that think scientifically, which I imagine if you watch this podcast or listen to this podcast is all of you by now, probably thinking, "Well, maybe they just moved around more.
当然，现在，你们中任何一个以科学的方式思考的人，我想如果你们观看这个播客或听这个播客，现在你们所有人都可能会想，“好吧，也许他们只是移动得更多了。
Or maybe they stood up and sat down more.
或者也许他们站起来并坐下更多。
Maybe they did something else that was different." And indeed, there's a strong possibility that they did things differently than the other group.
也许他们做了其他不同的事情。”事实上，他们的做法很可能与其他群体不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But the mere knowledge that exercise is good for you, that movement is good for you, shifted their behavior and their physiology in the direction of enhanced weight loss, fat loss, etc. So how we think about a given set of activities affects how we perform those activities.
但是，仅仅知道运动对你有好处，运动对你有好处，就会改变他们的行为和生理机能，使其朝着增强减肥、减脂等方向发展。因此，我们对一组特定活动的看法会影响我们执行这些活动的方式。
And how we think and perform those activities has a real effect on our physiology.
我们如何思考和执行这些活动对我们的生理机能有真正的影响。
So somewhere between the hard and fast rule that governs fat loss and weight loss, which is if you ingest more calories than you burn, you'll either maintain or gain weight.
因此，介于控制脂肪减少和体重减轻的硬性规则之间，即如果您摄入的卡路里多于燃烧的卡路里，您的体重就会保持不变或增加。
Typically, you'll gain weight, although not always.
通常，您的体重会增加，但并非总是如此。
If you ingest about as many calories as you burn, you maintain weight, typically.
如果你摄入的卡路里与燃烧的卡路里一样多，通常你就能保持体重。
And if you ingest fewer calories than you burn, typically you'll lose weight.
如果你摄入的卡路里少于燃烧的卡路里，通常你的体重就会减轻。
That's the kind of rule of fat loss.
这就是减肥的规律。
And yet, we also have these belief effects which show, and this has been replicated again and again, that how we think about a process, whether or not we think it's beneficial, can change our physiology in ways that can be beneficial to us.
然而，我们也有这些信念效应，它表明，并且这已经被一次又一次地重复，我们如何看待一个过程，无论我们是否认为它有益，都可以以对我们有益的方式改变我们的生理机能。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Somewhere in between those two extremes of hardcore metabolic science and belief effects lie a bunch of protocols that are grounded in quality peer-reviewed science and in physiology that you can leverage to increase the rates of fat loss.
在核心代谢科学和信念效应的这两个极端之间，存在着一系列基于高质量同行评审科学和生理学的协议，您可以利用它们来提高减脂率。
And so that's what we're going to talk about today.
这就是我们今天要讨论的内容。
I love this topic, and it's not that I'm so obsessed with fat loss, but rather, the first project I ever worked on in science was thermogenesis and fat loss.
我喜欢这个话题，并不是因为我对减肥如此痴迷，而是因为我从事的第一个科学项目是生热和减肥。
I joined a laboratory as an undergraduate, and the guy I worked for loved to explore new compounds and how they impacted thermogenesis.
我作为一名本科生加入了一个实验室，我的同事喜欢探索新化合物以及它们如何影响生热作用。
And so we looked at how things like MDMA — ecstasy — how antipsychotics, antidepressants, various weight-loss drugs that were on the market, how those impacted body temperature and fat loss and metabolism.
因此，我们研究了像 MDMA（摇头丸）这样的东西如何影响市场上的抗精神病药、抗抑郁药、各种减肥药，以及它们如何影响体温、脂肪减少和新陈代谢。
And we just had so much fun doing it.
我们这样做非常有趣。
So if you detect a smile on my face, that's what that's about.
所以如果你发现我脸上有微笑，那就是这样。
And I also learned a lot, and I also came to really appreciate that this tissue of our bodies, adipose tissue and fat, we think of as just this unfortunate thing.
我也学到了很多东西，我也开始真正意识到我们身体的组织，脂肪组织和脂肪，我们认为这只是不幸的事情。
We're told it's a core energy source if we ever entered a famine, and that's all true, et cetera.
我们被告知，如果我们陷入饥荒，它就是核心能源，这都是事实，等等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We've come to realize that these cells in our body, they are there as fuel for the furnace of our body, which is our metabolism.
我们逐渐意识到，我们体内的这些细胞是我们身体的燃料，也就是我们的新陈代谢。
And there's a third player, and that's where it really gets interesting, that the nervous system, neurons, has the opportunity to turn up the intensity of that furnace.
还有第三个参与者，这才是真正有趣的地方，神经系统、神经元有机会调高熔炉的强度。
It has the opportunity to increase the amount of heat that we produce and therefore the amount of energy that we burn.
它有机会增加我们产生的热量，从而增加我们燃烧的能量。
And I was also really intrigued by something, which is that growing up I think we all know people who can eat a ton and never seem to gain any body fat, or people who seem to eat very little and seem to gain body fat very easily.
我也对一件事很感兴趣，那就是在成长过程中，我想我们都知道有些人可以吃很多东西，但似乎永远不会增加任何身体脂肪，或者那些似乎吃得很少但似乎很容易增加身体脂肪的人。
And I was always intrigued by that.
我一直对此很感兴趣。
And it turns out there are a number of different factors that relate to that.
事实证明，有许多不同的因素与之相关。
But the nervous system is the one that we can really control, both through behaviors and what we eat, but also in terms of this thing that we call thermogenesis.
但神经系统是我们真正可以控制的系统，不仅可以通过行为和饮食来控制，还可以通过我们所说的生热作用来控制。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There was one particular story I want to relate to you that does not suggest any protocol.
我想告诉你们一个特别的故事，但它并没有提出任何协议。
In fact, I'm going to discourage you from following this protocol.
事实上，我会劝阻您不要遵循此协议。
Please do not try the compound that I'm about to describe.
请不要尝试我将要描述的化合物。
One of the favorite things that we like to do in that lab was to find rare compounds and test them.
我们在实验室里最喜欢做的事情之一就是寻找稀有化合物并对其进行测试。
And at the time, I was reading about thermogenesis, and I learned about a compound that was actually discovered in the armory factories of World War II.
当时，我正在阅读有关生热作用的文章，并了解了一种在第二次世界大战的军械工厂中实际发现的化合物。
And it was discovered because women, in particular, who were working in these factories would take a brush and dip it in a compound, or a paint, rather, and they would then paint the numbers with stencil onto things like bombs and ammunition of various kinds.
之所以被发现，是因为在这些工厂工作的女性，尤其是女性，会拿起刷子，将其浸入化合物或油漆中，然后用模板将数字涂在炸弹和各种弹药等物体上。
And they were losing weight like crazy.
他们疯狂地减肥。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It turns out that occasionally they'd lick the brush, just to a sharper point on the brush, and then they would paint onto these various bullets and missiles and so forth, bombs and so forth.
事实证明，他们偶尔会舔一下画笔，只是让画笔变得更锋利，然后他们会在这些不同的子弹、导弹等、炸弹等上绘画。
And they started shedding all their body fat.
他们开始减掉体内所有的脂肪。
And many of them lost a lot of weight, a significant portion of their weight, without changing anything else that they were doing, what they were eating, et cetera.
他们中的许多人体重减轻了很多，体重的很大一部分却没有改变，他们所做的任何事情、吃的东西等等都没有改变。
Turned out that that compound is something called dinitrophenol, DNP.
结果发现这种化合物就是二硝基苯酚，DNP。
And over the years, dinitrophenol, DNP, has gained popularity in some niche cultures, mainly bodybuilders, athletes, even in the modeling industry.
多年来，二硝基苯酚（DNP）在一些小众文化中越来越受欢迎，主要是健美运动员、运动员，甚至在模特行业。
It is an absolutely terrible compound for anyone to use because it's highly fatal if your body temperature goes too high.
对于任何人来说，这绝对是一种可怕的化合物，因为如果你的体温过高，它是非常致命的。
Hyperthermia will kill you.
高热会杀死你。
And indeed, many people have died using dinitrophenol as a weight-loss drug or attempting to use it as a weight-loss drug.
事实上，许多人因使用二硝基苯酚作为减肥药或试图将其用作减肥药而死亡。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But dinitrophenol really illustrates a principle, which is that your metabolism includes things like thyroid hormone and growth hormone, et cetera, but your body temperature and the way you utilize energy is controlled by your nervous system.
但二硝基苯酚确实说明了一个原理，就是你的新陈代谢包括甲状腺激素、生长激素等等，但你的体温和你利用能量的方式是由你的神经系统控制的。
And the way dinitrophenol works is by changing the neurons and the way that the neurons that connect to fat change the way fat burns up.
二硝基苯酚的作用方式是通过改变神经元以及连接脂肪的神经元改变脂肪燃烧的方式。
So we are not going to suggest...
所以我们不会建议...
I am not suggesting that you use dinitrophenol.
我并不是建议您使用二硝基苯酚。
However, there are other things that you can do that can change the relationship between these neurons and the fat of your body in ways that can powerfully accelerate fat loss.
然而，您还可以采取其他措施来改变这些神经元与身体脂肪之间的关系，从而有力地加速减脂。
And I don't know why we don't hear about these things more, but probably because most of what you see out there on the internet focuses more on what you could eat and should eat or shouldn't eat.
我不知道为什么我们没有更多地听到这些事情，但可能是因为您在互联网上看到的大多数内容更多地关注您可以吃什么以及应该吃或不应该吃什么。
It concentrates on exercise regimens, which we will also talk about, But the burn factor, your thermogenic environment, is one of the, if not the, most important factors in this business of fat loss.
它集中于运动养生法，我们也会讨论这一点，但是燃烧因素，即你的产热环境，即使不是最重要的因素，也是减脂过程中最重要的因素之一。
And since I'm a neuroscientist, that's what we're going to talk about.
由于我是一名神经科学家，这就是我们要讨论的内容。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So let's talk about fat utilization.
那么我们来谈谈脂肪利用率。
Let's talk about how fat is converted into energy, which is sometimes also called fat burning.
我们先来说说脂肪是如何转化为能量的，有时也称为脂肪燃烧。
What I'd like you to know is that this is a two-part process, okay?
我想让你知道这是一个由两部分组成的过程，好吗？
In reality, there are many biochemical steps.
事实上，有很多生化步骤。
And if you log onto the Internet or you open up a textbook, and you want to learn about fat utilization, you're going to see a lot of chemistry.
如果您登录互联网或打开一本教科书，并且想要了解脂肪利用，您会看到很多化学知识。
And I'm happy to go deep into that chemistry if you like, but I think most of you are probably interested in, "What are the leverage points?
如果你愿意的话，我很乐意深入探讨这种化学反应，但我想你们中的大多数人可能感兴趣的是，“杠杆点是什么？
Where can you exert control over this process in ways that benefit you?" So I'm going to focus mainly on those.
你可以在哪里以对你有利的方式控制这个过程？”所以我将主要关注这些。
Okay?
好的？
This is not to upset the aficionados, and I will put in some nomenclature, but here we go.
这并不是要让爱好者们感到不安，我会添加一些术语，但我们开始吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's two parts to this process.
这个过程有两个部分。
One is fat mobilization and the second is fat oxidation or utilization.
一是脂肪动员，二是脂肪氧化或利用。
So the first thing that has to happen for body fat to get burned up or used and reduced is that it has to get mobilized.
因此，要燃烧或使用和减少体内脂肪，首先要做的就是将其动员起来。
And that's a process called lipolysis.
这是一个称为脂肪分解的过程。
But I actually don't care if you know the name lipolysis.
但我实际上不在乎你是否知道脂肪分解这个名字。
You just have to move that fat out of the position that it's in.
你只需要将脂肪移出原来的位置即可。
You have to get it out of the fat cells, all right?
你必须把它从脂肪细胞中取出来，好吗？
Fat cells can be visceral around our viscera, our organs, or they can be subcutaneous under our skin.
脂肪细胞可以存在于我们的内脏、器官周围，也可以存在于我们皮肤下的皮下。
Most people are thinking about subcutaneous fat when they think about fat.
大多数人一提到脂肪就会想到皮下脂肪。
So here's the deal, and if you want more detail, great.
这就是交易，如果您想了解更多详细信息，那就太好了。
I'll touch on that in a bit.
我稍后会谈到这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But basically, stored fat has two parts that are relevant here.
但基本上，储存的脂肪有两个相关的部分。
It's got the fatty acid part, and that's the part that your body can use, and that's attached to something called glycerol.
它含有脂肪酸部分，这是你的身体可以使用的部分，它与一种叫做甘油的物质相连。
And they're linked by a backbone.
它们通过主干相连。
So already probably too much chemistry for both of you.
所以对于你们俩来说可能已经有太多的化学反应了。
But what you want is you want to break the backbone.
但你想要的是你想要打破脊梁骨。
So if you just can remember, to mobilize fat, you got to break the backbone between glycerol and these fatty acids, okay?
所以，如果你还记得，为了调动脂肪，你必须打破甘油和这些脂肪酸之间的主干，好吗？
That's accomplished by an enzyme called lipase.
这是通过一种称为脂肪酶的酶来完成的。
But you can forget all that if you want.
但如果你愿意的话，你可以忘记这一切。
Remember, we're just trying to mobilize fat.
请记住，我们只是想动员脂肪。
So the first step is to get those fatty acids moving around in the bloodstream to get them out of those fat cells.
因此，第一步是让这些脂肪酸在血液中移动，以将它们从脂肪细胞中排出。
And then they can travel and be used for energy.
然后它们就可以旅行并用作能源。
And that second part...
还有第二部分...
Remember, first part is mobilization.
请记住，第一部分是动员。
The second part is oxidation.
第二部分是氧化。
...
...
is then those fatty acids.
那么就是那些脂肪酸。
Those are potential fuel.
这些都是潜在的燃料。
They're just potential fuel, but you haven't burned the fat yet.
它们只是潜在的燃料，但你还没有燃烧脂肪。
You've just moved it out of your fat cells.
你刚刚将其从脂肪细胞中移出。
They're going to go into cells that can use them for energy.
它们将进入可以利用它们获取能量的细胞。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And once they are inside those cells, they're still not burned up.
一旦它们进入这些细胞，它们仍然不会被烧毁。
You need to oxidize them.
你需要氧化它们。
Think oxidation is the burn up part.
认为氧化是烧毁的部分。
They need to be moved into the mitochondria, and then they can be converted into ATP, into energy.
它们需要被转移到线粒体中，然后才能转化为 ATP，转化为能量。
So just to really zoom out again to make sure I don't lose anybody, you got to mobilize the fat, then you have to oxidize the fat.
因此，为了真正缩小范围以确保我不会失去任何人，你必须动员脂肪，然后你必须氧化脂肪。
In other words, you have to mobilize it, then you actually have to convert it into energy.
换句话说，你必须调动它，然后你实际上必须将它转化为能量。
If you just mobilize it, and you don't convert it into energy, you don't oxidize it, it can be returned to body fat.
如果你只是调动它，不将其转化为能量，不氧化它，它就可以返回体内脂肪。
And many of the things that the nervous system can do is to increase the mobilization of fat, but also the oxidation of fat.
神经系统能做的很多事情就是增加脂肪的动员，同时也增加脂肪的氧化。
So you have two opportunities to burn more fat.
所以你有两次机会燃烧更多脂肪。
And both of those opportunities are governed by your nervous system, by neurons that literally send little wires that we call axons into fat and release chemicals that provide a stimulus for more of that fat to be mobilized, and then later for more of that fat to be burned up.
这两种机会都是由你的神经系统控制的，神经元实际上将我们称之为轴突的小电线发送到脂肪中，并释放化学物质，刺激更多的脂肪被动员，然后更多的脂肪被燃烧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we could go really deep on this, but I'm not going to go much deeper than that, because this isn't a biochemistry of fatty acid metabolism lecture.
所以我们可以更深入地讨论这个问题，但我不会比这更深入，因为这不是脂肪酸代谢的生物化学讲座。
This is about how to burn fat using your nervous system.
这是关于如何利用神经系统燃烧脂肪。
But remember, there's a mobilization step and then there's an oxidation step.
但请记住，有一个动员步骤，然后有一个氧化步骤。
I think any one of you, all of you, should be able to internalize that.
我认为你们中的任何一个人，所有人，都应该能够内化这一点。
Mobilize, then oxidize.
动员，然后氧化。
Okay?
好的？
Mobilize, then oxidize.
动员，然后氧化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what are these neurons that connect to fat doing?
那么这些与脂肪相连的神经元在做什么呢？
What are they releasing exactly?
他们到底发布了什么？
How do they actually increase fat mobilization?
它们实际上是如何增加脂肪动员的？
And how do they increase fat-
它们是如何增加脂肪的-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Actually increase fat mobilization and how do they increase fat oxidation, burning of fat?
实际上增加脂肪动员以及它们如何增加脂肪氧化、脂肪燃烧？
Well, there are a couple of things that they release that encourage that process.
嗯，他们发布了一些鼓励这一过程的东西。
And the main one that you need to know about is epinephrine, or adrenaline.
您需要了解的主要药物是肾上腺素或肾上腺素。
The conversion of these fatty acids into ATP in the mitochondria of cells is favored by adrenaline.
肾上腺素有利于这些脂肪酸在细胞线粒体中转化为 ATP。
And adrenaline is released from two sources.
肾上腺素有两个来源释放。
Adrenaline is released from the adrenal glands, which sit atop our kidneys in our lower back.
肾上腺素是从位于我们下背部肾脏顶部的肾上腺释放的。
And it's also released from the so-called sympathetic nervous system, although that name is a bit of a misnomer.
它也是从所谓的交感神经系统中释放出来的，尽管这个名字有点用词不当。
Because it has nothing to do with sympathy — has to do with stimulating alertness and promoting action of the body.
因为它与同情心无关——而是与刺激警觉性和促进身体活动有关。
There's a big mistake in the literature that is finally being corrected among those who know.
文献中存在一个大错误，最终被那些知道的人纠正了。
The mistake in the literature is that the adrenal glands and the release of adrenaline is what stimulates fat loss and fat oxidation.
文献中的错误是，肾上腺和肾上腺素的释放会刺激脂肪减少和脂肪氧化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In fact, it was thought for a long time that adrenaline swimming around in your body of when you're fasted, because fasting can increase adrenaline.
事实上，长期以来人们一直认为禁食时肾上腺素会在体内游动，因为禁食会增加肾上腺素。
Or when you're engaging in intense exercise or when you're stressed, is going to promote fat oxidation.
或者当您进行剧烈运动或感到压力时，会促进脂肪氧化。
That's actually not the case.
事实上并非如此。
The adrenaline that stimulates fat oxidation, the burning of fat, is coming from neurons that actually connect to the fat.
刺激脂肪氧化（即脂肪燃烧）的肾上腺素来自与脂肪实际相连的神经元。
Not hormones like adrenaline that are swimming around in your system.
不是像肾上腺素这样在你的系统中游动的激素。
It's a local process.
这是一个本地进程。
And this is very important because it means that what you do, the specific patterns of movements and the specific environment you create that can stimulate these particular neurons to activate fat, meaning to release fat, to mobilize it and then to burn it, is going to be a powerful lever that you can use in order to increase fat loss.
这非常重要，因为这意味着你所做的事情、特定的运动模式和你创造的特定环境，可以刺激这些特定的神经元激活脂肪，也就是说释放脂肪，动员它，然后燃烧它，将成为你可以用来增加脂肪减少的强大杠杆。
So what have we said so far?
那么到目前为止我们都说了些什么呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We've said that you got to mobilize and you got to burn fat and that your nervous system is in control of that process.
我们说过，你必须动员起来，你必须燃烧脂肪，而你的神经系统控制着这个过程。
It's not just about calorie deficit.
这不仅仅是卡路里不足的问题。
Okay, so let's talk about how to activate the nervous system in ways that it promotes more liberation — movement, mobilization of fat and more oxidation of fat.
好吧，让我们来谈谈如何激活神经系统，以促进更多的解放——运动、脂肪动员和更多的脂肪氧化。
So one of the most powerful ways to stimulate epinephrine, which is also called adrenaline, from these neurons that connect to fat and to thereby stimulate more fat mobilization and oxidation is through movement.
因此，刺激这些与脂肪相连的神经元产生肾上腺素（也称为肾上腺素）并从而刺激更多脂肪动员和氧化的最有效方法之一就是通过运动。
But I'm not talking about exercise.
但我不是在谈论锻炼。
The type of movement that I'm referring to is extremely subtle.
我所指的运动类型是极其微妙的。
And some of you may be familiar with this type of movement, but I'm guessing you're probably not familiar with what I'm about to tell you.
你们中的一些人可能熟悉这种类型的运动，但我猜你们可能不熟悉我要告诉你们的内容。
Which is that shiver or shivering is a strong stimulus for the release of adrenaline, epinephrine, into fat and the increase in fat oxidation and mobilization.
即颤抖或颤抖是对肾上腺素、肾上腺素释放到脂肪中以及脂肪氧化和动员增加的强烈刺激。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But shiver is not just induced by cold, and there are other subtle forms of movement that can greatly increase fat metabolism and fat loss.
但颤抖不仅仅是由寒冷引起的，还有其他微妙的运动形式可以大大增加脂肪代谢和减脂。
There was a group in England during the 1960s and '70s that discovered a pathway by which subtle forms of movement can greatly increase fat loss.
20 世纪 60 年代和 70 年代，英国有一个研究小组发现了一种途径，通过这种途径，微妙的运动形式可以大大增加减脂效果。
This is the work of Rothwell and Stock.
这是罗斯韦尔和斯托克的作品。
It's very famous in the thermogenesis literature.
它在生热作用文献中非常有名。
And I learned about this early on when I was an undergraduate, and I asked, how did they come across this?
当我还是一名本科生时，我很早就了解到了这一点，我问，他们是如何发现这一点的？
And here's how the story goes.
故事是这样的。
They were aware that some people overeat and yet don't put on weight.
他们意识到有些人吃得过多，但体重却没有增加。
Other people overeat even just a little bit, and they seem to accumulate extra adipose tissue.
其他人即使吃得过多，哪怕只是一点点，他们似乎都会积累额外的脂肪组织。
Now, this is long before all the discussions about microbiome and hormone factors, and it was long before many of the hormone factors besides insulin had even been discovered.
现在，这早于所有关于微生物组和激素因素的讨论，而且早在胰岛素以外的许多激素因素被发现之前。
What they did was they examined people who overate and did not gain weight.
他们所做的是检查那些暴饮暴食但体重没有增加的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And what they observed was that those people engaged in lots of subtle movement throughout the day.
他们观察到，这些人一整天都会进行许多微妙的运动。
In other words, they were fidgeters and that's what they called them.
换句话说，他们是坐立不安的人，他们就是这么称呼他们的。
I'm not going to do the British-accent version of fidgeters, but Rothwell and Stock were British.
我不会做英国口音版本的坐立不安的人，但罗斯韦尔和斯托克是英国人。
What they found were people that overeat but don't gain weight as a consequence.
他们发现人们吃得过多，但体重却没有因此增加。
And in fact, many people who had low levels of body fat had a lot of resting tremor, not of the Parkinsonian type, but they would bounce their knee while they were sitting.
事实上，许多身体脂肪水平较低的人都有很多静息性震颤，不是帕金森病类型，但他们坐着时膝盖会弹动。
When they would talk, they would engage in very angular movements.
当他们说话时，他们会做出非常有角度的动作。
They were sort of electric.
它们有点像电动的。
In fact, now in science ...
事实上，现在在科学...
I was chuckling about this as I was diving back into this literature because the other day I heard a wonderful lecture on a totally different topic from a colleague of mine, and we all adore him.
当我重新深入研究这些文献时，我对此咯咯笑起来，因为前几天我从我的一位同事那里听到了一场关于完全不同主题的精彩讲座，我们都崇拜他。
He's over in Europe, and he's this tremendously successful scientist.
他在欧洲，他是一位非常成功的科学家。
So we like to poke fun at him.
所以我们喜欢取笑他。
And every one of his movements is incredibly electric and staccato.
他的每一个动作都充满了令人难以置信的电动和断奏。
And he's rail thin and he eats like a horse.
他身材瘦削，吃东西却像马一样。
And so it fits very well into the discovery of Rothwell and Stock, who discovered that fidgeters, people that bounce their knee, people that have a head bob while they're listening, people that nod a lot, people that stand up and sit down a lot throughout the day, and people that pace, burn anywhere from 800 to 2,500 calories more than the control group in the experiments that they looked at.
这与 Rothwell 和 Stock 的发现非常吻合，他们发现，在实验中，坐立不安的人、弹动膝盖的人、倾听时摇头的人、经常点头的人、整天站起来和坐下的人以及踱步的人，在他们观察的实验中比对照组多燃烧 800 到 2,500 卡路里。
And indeed, there's been a modern look into all this and these numbers check out.
事实上，我们已经对这一切进行了现代审视，这些数字也得到了检验。
That simply moving around a lot, even if those are subtle movements, greatly increases the amount of energy that you burn.
简单地四处走动，即使这些动作很微妙，也会大大增加你燃烧的能量。
And people who overeat, the people who can have the second or the third donut, or donuts at all, and don't seem to put on weight to the same degree, they are people that move around a lot, even when seated.
那些吃得过多的人，那些可以吃第二个或第三个甜甜圈的人，或者根本不吃甜甜圈的人，体重似乎没有增加到同样的程度，他们是经常走动的人，即使是坐着的时候也是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are people that will often move their limbs very quickly as well.
有些人的四肢也经常快速移动。
There even have been studies that have explored other things that correlate with fidgeters.
甚至有研究探索了与坐立不安相关的其他事物。
Fidgeters stand up very quickly at the end of a lecture, or they start to gather their things very quickly, whereas nonfidgeters don't.
坐立不安的人在讲座结束后很快站起来，或者他们开始很快地收拾东西，而坐立不安的人则不然。
So dogs like my bulldog, Costello, definitely not a fidgeter.
所以像我的斗牛犬科斯特洛这样的狗绝对不是坐立不安的人。
Every movement is incredibly slow and deliberate; sitting down is a process.
每个动作都极其缓慢且从容；坐下是一个过程。
If you ask him to sit down, it's sort of a slow motion.
如果你请他坐下，这就是一个慢动作。
You ask him to get up, and he looks at you, sighs, and stands up.
你让他站起来，他看着你，叹了口气，站了起来。
The fidgeters are the opposite of that.
坐立不安的人则与此相反。
You say, "How are you doing?" They go, "Great." So even sometimes their speech will be accelerated, although not always, but staccato movements, fidgeting, et cetera.
你说：“你好吗？”他们说：“太棒了。”因此，即使有时他们的说话速度也会加快，但并非总是如此，而是断断续续的动作、坐立不安等等。
And in 2015, and again in 2017, there have been studies that have explored this using some modern metabolic tracking.
2015 年和 2017 年，都有研究利用一些现代代谢追踪技术对此进行了探索。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And indeed simply moving a lot, being a fidgeter, bouncing your knee, standing up and pacing several times, or many times throughout the day led to considerable amounts of fat loss and weight loss.
事实上，仅仅进行大量的活动，坐立不安，弹动膝盖，站起来并踱步几次，或者一天中多次，就会导致大量的脂肪减少和体重减轻。
When people were ingesting the same amount of food, if they overate, they were able to compensate and burn off that food.
当人们摄入相同量的食物时，如果他们吃得过多，他们能够补偿并消耗掉食物。
And if they were trying to lose weight and they incorporated this fidgeting protocol of deliberately trying to fidget more and move around during the day, pace, stand up more quickly, sit down more often, sit down and stand up more often, rather.
如果他们想减肥，并且他们采用了这种坐立不安的方案，即故意在白天更加坐立不安并四处走动，那么踱步，更快地站起来，更频繁地坐下，更频繁地坐下和站起来。
They found that they greatly increased their weight loss — anywhere from 20 to 30% increases.
他们发现，他们的体重减轻幅度大大增加——增加了 20% 到 30%。
And in some cases, there are always those few people who burned a lot more.
在某些情况下，总有少数人燃烧得更多。
It seems to work best in people who are already slightly overweight.
它似乎对已经稍微超重的人最有效。
So for people that are overweight who are averse to exercise, fidgeting might actually be a good entry point.
因此，对于那些不愿运动的超重人士来说，坐立不安实际上可能是一个很好的切入点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And 800 to 2,500 calories is a considerable amount of calories, when you really think about it.
如果你仔细想想，800 到 2,500 卡路里的热量是相当可观的。
Now, why am I telling you this?
现在，我为什么要告诉你这些？
Well, there's clearly a tool to export from this, which is that you can increase the amount of calories burned without having to go on additional long runs.
嗯，显然有一个可以导出的工具，那就是你可以增加燃烧的卡路里量，而不必进行额外的长跑。
I do hope that people are exercising regularly because it's so important for other aspects of brain and body health.
我确实希望人们定期锻炼，因为这对于大脑和身体健康的其他方面非常重要。
But nonetheless, we are all time-limited and we are not all so ready to embrace exercise.
但尽管如此，我们的时间都是有限的，而且我们还没有准备好接受锻炼。
I have a family member who has been slowly coaxed into exercise, but if I were to tell her, for instance, you need to fidget more, she'd probably go for it.
我有一个家庭成员，她被慢慢地哄着去锻炼，但如果我告诉她，比如，你需要多坐立不安，她可能会这么做。
So this is a powerful way to increase the calories that are burned.
因此，这是增加燃烧卡路里的有效方法。
Now, that's great, and you can think about the protocols, but I want to nest that protocol in what I said before, which is that fat is controlled by these neurons and the epinephrine they release.
现在，这很好，你可以考虑这些协议，但我想将该协议嵌套在我之前所说的内容中，即脂肪是由这些神经元和它们释放的肾上腺素控制的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You might say, "Well, how could these little micromovements lead to so much caloric burn?" And that's where it really gets interesting.
你可能会说，“那么，这些微小的运动怎么会导致如此多的卡路里燃烧呢？”这才是真正有趣的地方。
Rothwell and Stock, and others that they worked with subsequently, found that these little fidgety movements, the engagement of certain aspects of our musculature that are nothing like exercise.
罗斯韦尔和斯托克以及随后与他们合作的其他人发现，这些烦躁的小动作，以及我们肌肉组织某些方面的参与，与锻炼完全不同。
It's not these large coordinated or rhythmic body movements, but rather subtle little bits of fidgety movement.
这不是这些大的、协调的或有节奏的身体动作，而是微妙的、烦躁的小动作。
And here I am doing a lot fidgety movement, as an example, tapping the pen, this kind of thing there; I was probably that kid in class most of the time, and I was like, "I try not to do it to irritate people." But I was definitely a knee bouncer.
这里我做了很多烦躁的动作，比如敲笔，这样的事情；我可能大部分时间都是课堂上的那个孩子，我想，“我尽量不这样做来激怒别人。”但我绝对是一个膝盖弹跳者。
I'm not particularly lean or not, but I was definitely — this is a common activity for me.
我不是特别瘦，但我绝对是——这对我来说是一项常见的活动。
People that do that sort of thing, it turns out that it's not the kind of caloric burn that we normally think of.
做这种事情的人，事实证明这不是我们通常认为的那种卡路里燃烧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like, "Oh, you are running, lifting weight, swimming, yoga, et cetera." Those subtle movements of our core musculature, not just the core, but all our limbs in our musculature, those low-level movements.
就像，“哦，你正在跑步、举重、游泳、瑜伽等等。”我们核心肌肉组织的那些微妙运动，不仅仅是核心，而是我们肌肉组织中的所有四肢，那些低水平的运动。
They trigger epinephrine release from these neurons and they stimulate the mobilization of fat.
它们触发这些神经元释放肾上腺素，并刺激脂肪的动员。
And then that fat is oxidized at higher rates.
然后脂肪会以更高的速度被氧化。
And I find this fascinating.
我觉得这很有趣。
I wish more people knew about it, which is why I'm telling you about it today.
我希望更多的人知道这件事，这就是我今天告诉你的原因。
This has nothing to do with exercise in the traditional form and yet 800 to 2,500 calories per day, that's a considerable amount of fat oxidized.
这与传统形式的运动无关，但每天 800 至 2,500 卡路里的热量，已经是相当多的脂肪被氧化了。
If you are in a calorie maintenance mode or if you're subcaloric, that's going to add to still additional fat loss.
如果您处于卡路里维持模式或热量较低，这将进一步减少脂肪。
The data on this are tremendous.
这方面的数据是巨大的。
I'll link to a few studies if you're really interested in learning about what's called NEAT, N-E-A-T, which is non-exercise activity thermogenesis, NEAT.
如果您真的有兴趣了解所谓的 NEAT（N-E-A-T），即非运动活动产热，NEAT，我将链接到一些研究。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what's the protocol?
那么协议是什么？
Fidget.
坐立不安。
If you're really interested in burning calories and you already exercise, you want to burn more, or you don't have the opportunity to exercise, or you're averse to exercise for whatever reason.
如果您确实对燃烧卡路里感兴趣并且已经进行了锻炼，那么您想燃烧更多，或者您没有机会锻炼，或者您出于某种原因不愿意锻炼。
Fidgeting movements, staccato movements, standing up, walking around, pacing — all the sort of nervous activities that we're so critical of in other people and sometimes in ourselves — are actually mobilizing and oxidizing a lot of fat and a lot of energy.
坐立不安的动作、断断续续的动作、站立、走动、踱步——所有这些我们对其他人、有时甚至我们自己都非常挑剔的神经活动——实际上正在动员和氧化大量的脂肪和能量。
And while this probably won't compensate for chronic overeating, the caloric burn from this is considerable and very likely can offset a meal that had excessive calories or a steady state of eating too much.
虽然这可能无法弥补长期的暴饮暴食，但由此产生的热量消耗是相当可观的，并且很可能可以抵消卡路里过多或持续吃得过多的膳食。
And it also starts to open up all sorts of thoughts and discussion about when you travel, you tend to eat foods that are outside your normal ones.
它还开始引发各种各样的想法和讨论，关于当你旅行时，你倾向于吃超出正常食物的食物。
We tend to eat foods that aren't so great for us.
我们倾向于吃对我们不太好的食物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We also tend to be a little bit more sedentary when we travel; we're on the plane, et cetera.
当我们旅行时，我们也倾向于久坐。我们在飞机上，等等。
But all of that aside, just the use of something like low-level movement, and it's almost like a tremor.
但抛开所有这些不谈，仅仅使用低级动作之类的东西，就几乎就像颤抖一样。
But also these short, small, fidgety movements.
还有这些短小、烦躁的动作。
I'm intentionally doing a lot of these today.
我今天故意做了很多这样的事情。
So you have examples that you can use, to select from if you like.
因此，您可以使用一些示例，如果您愿意，可以从中进行选择。
These can have a major effect on fat loss, and it raises a second tool.
这些可以对减脂产生重大影响，并且它提出了第二个工具。
If these low, meaning these small movements that we engage in trigger epinephrine, adrenaline, release from these neurons of the sympathetic nervous system that innervate fat and increase fat mobilization and oxidation.
如果这些低，意味着我们进行的这些小运动会触发交感神经系统的这些神经元释放肾上腺素，肾上腺素会刺激脂肪并增加脂肪的动员和氧化。
Now, it should make sense why shivering is one of the strongest stimuli that one can incorporate to stimulate fat loss.
现在，我们应该可以理解为什么颤抖是刺激脂肪减少的最强刺激之一了。
Now, shivering is almost always associated with cold.
现在，颤抖几乎总是与寒冷联系在一起。
We think shivering, we think cold because when we get cold, we shiver.
我们认为颤抖，我们认为寒冷，因为当我们寒冷时，我们会颤抖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there are two ways that shivering can increase fat loss.
颤抖可以通过两种方式促进脂肪减少。
And there are several ways that you can use shivering.
您可以通过多种方式利用颤抖。
You can leverage shivering, and you can leverage cold to accelerate fat loss.
你可以利用颤抖，也可以利用寒冷来加速减脂。
But you have to do it correctly.
但你必须正确地做。
And most of the people that are using cold and, frankly, suggesting cold as a means to increase metabolism, fat loss, are suggesting the exact wrong protocol.
大多数使用冷饮的人，坦率地说，建议冷饮作为增加新陈代谢、减肥的一种手段，他们提出的是完全错误的方案。
In fact, the one I'm going to recommend is 180 degrees in the opposite direction to the typical protocol that you'd hear about.
事实上，我要推荐的方向与您听说的典型协议相反，方向为 180 度。
So let's talk about how to use cold and how to leverage shiver as a particularly strong stimulus to increase fat loss through mobilization and oxidation of these fatty acids.
因此，让我们来谈谈如何利用寒冷以及如何利用颤抖作为特别强烈的刺激，通过这些脂肪酸的动员和氧化来增加脂肪减少。
So in recent years, there's been a growing interest in the use of cold for various things like improving stress tolerance, improving metabolism, recovery from exercise.
因此，近年来，人们越来越关注利用冷疗法来提高抗压能力、改善新陈代谢、从运动中恢复等。
I've talked about a number of those things and the uses of cold on this podcast.
我在这个播客上讨论了其中的一些事情以及寒冷的用途。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In fact, we did an episode on how to supercharge performance through palmar cooling, cooling the palms in specific ways or the bottoms of the feet.
事实上，我们制作了一集关于如何通过手掌冷却来增强性能，以特定方式冷却手掌或脚底。
And if you're interested in that and how to improve performance in endurance and strength, you can check out that episode.
如果您对此以及如何提高耐力和力量的表现感兴趣，您可以观看该集。
But most people out there are using cold exposure typically by taking cold showers or by getting into cold water of some other kind, a lake or a river or a cold bath or an ice bath.
但大多数人通常会通过洗冷水澡或进入其他类型的冷水、湖泊或河流、冷水浴或冰浴来进行寒冷暴露。
And they are doing that probably with mixed goals, meaning they both would like to increase their metabolism and burn fat as well as improve mental resilience.
他们这样做的目标可能是混合的，这意味着他们都希望增加新陈代谢、燃烧脂肪以及提高心理弹性。
Since today we're talking about accelerating fat loss through the use of science-based tools, I want to emphasize a study that was published in Nature just a couple years ago, showing exactly how cold increases metabolism and fat loss.
既然今天我们谈论的是通过使用基于科学的工具来加速减脂，我想强调几年前发表在《自然》杂志上的一项研究，该研究准确地展示了寒冷如何促进新陈代谢和减脂。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, so we have several kinds of fat, three kinds.
好的，我们有几种脂肪，三种。
In fact, we have white fat, white adipose tissue, and we have brown fat or brown adipose tissue.
事实上，我们有白色脂肪、白色脂肪组织，还有棕色脂肪或棕色脂肪组织。
And there's a third kind, which is beige adipose tissue.
还有第三种，即米色脂肪组织。
White fat is the type that we traditionally think of as fat, subcutaneous fat, and it is not particularly rich in mitochondria.
白色脂肪就是我们传统上认为的脂肪，皮下脂肪的类型，它的线粒体含量并不是特别丰富。
It is there as an energy storage site, and we have to mobilize the fat out, as we talked about before, and burn it up elsewhere.
它是一个能量储存场所，我们必须将脂肪调动出来，正如我们之前谈到的，然后在其他地方燃烧掉。
Brown fat largely exists between our shoulder blades and on the back of our neck, between the scapula, and it's rich with mitochondria, which is why it's called brown fat.
棕色脂肪主要存在于我们的肩胛骨之间和颈后、肩胛骨之间，并且富含线粒体，这就是为什么它被称为棕色脂肪。
And brown fat has a particular biochemical cascade whereby it can take food energy, and it can take food basically, break it down and convert it into energy within those cells.
棕色脂肪具有特殊的生化级联，它可以吸收食物能量，并且基本上可以吸收食物，将其分解并在细胞内将其转化为能量。
And some additional steps involved.
还涉及一些额外的步骤。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But unlike fatty acids from white fat — which have to travel elsewhere, get broken down in mitochondria and convert into ATP, et cetera, used by the mitochondria, rather — brown fat is thermogenic, it can actually use energy directly.
但与白色脂肪中的脂肪酸不同的是，棕色脂肪是产热的，它实际上可以直接使用能量。白色脂肪必须转移到其他地方，在线粒体中分解并转化为 ATP 等，供线粒体使用。
It skips a step, and I don't want to get diverted by going into all the biochemistry of it.
它跳过了一个步骤，我不想因为深入了解它的所有生物化学而转移注意力。
Beige fat is sort of in between.
米色脂肪介于两者之间。
It's white fat that could be brown fat because it has some mitochondria in it, but not as many as brown fat.
它是白色脂肪，可能是棕色脂肪，因为它含有一些线粒体，但数量不如棕色脂肪。
Now, cold exposure does several things.
现在，寒冷暴露有很多作用。
Making ourselves cold can allow us to build up mental resilience because getting into cold of any kind — doesn't matter if it's a cryo chamber, doesn't matter if it's a cold day and you forgot your sweater or your parka, it doesn't matter if it's an ice bath or you're lying down in the snow.
让自己变冷可以让我们增强心理弹性，因为遇到任何形式的寒冷都没有关系——无论是在冷冻室，无论是在寒冷的日子而你忘记带毛衣或派克大衣，还是在冰浴或躺在雪地里都没有关系。
Cold causes the release of adrenaline from your adrenals, and it causes the release of epinephrine from these neurons that connect to fat.
寒冷会导致肾上腺释放肾上腺素，并导致这些与脂肪连接的神经元释放肾上腺素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, the big effects of cold on metabolism and fat burning are going to be through two routes.
现在，寒冷对新陈代谢和脂肪燃烧的巨大影响将通过两条途径产生。
One is that if you expose yourself to cold, you have the opportunity to trigger activation of brown fat as well as to convert more beige fat into true brown fat.
一是，如果你暴露在寒冷中，你就有机会触发棕色脂肪的激活，并将更多的米色脂肪转化为真正的棕色脂肪。
So you essentially create a stronger or a hotter furnace.
所以你本质上是创造了一个更强或更热的熔炉。
That's the way to think about brown fat.
这就是思考棕色脂肪的方式。
It's like a furnace.
它就像一个熔炉。
And so with this principle that we started with of calories in versus calories burned, what you're doing is you're increasing the amount of burning.
因此，根据我们从摄入卡路里与燃烧卡路里开始的这一原则，你所做的就是增加燃烧量。
You're increasing the burn of energy by increasing the intensity of the heat inside you, so to speak.
可以这么说，你通过增加体内热量的强度来增加能量的燃烧。
Okay, I'm talking here as, kind of metaphorically.
好吧，我在这里说的是一种隐喻。
Now, how can you do that?
现在，你怎么能这么做呢？
Well, if you get into cold water, or an ice bath or a cold day and you try and remain calm and resist shivering, you actually short-circuit this mechanism for increasing brown fat thermogenesis.
好吧，如果你进入冷水、冰浴或寒冷的一天，并且你试图保持冷静并抵制颤抖，你实际上会短路这种增加棕色脂肪产热的机制。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The paper publishing in Nature shows that it is shivering itself that causes the brown fat to increase your burning, your burn rate and your metabolism.
发表在《自然》杂志上的论文表明，正是颤抖本身导致棕色脂肪增加了你的燃烧、燃烧率和新陈代谢。
And it works like this.
它的工作原理是这样的。
When you get into cold and you shiver, the shivering — that low-level movement of the muscle, those small movements — triggers the release of a molecule called succinate, S-U-C-C-I-N-A-T-E, succinate.
当你感到寒冷并颤抖时，颤抖——肌肉的低水平运动，那些小运动——会触发一种叫做琥珀酸的分子的释放，S-U-C-C-I-N-A-T-E，琥珀酸。
And succinate acts on the brown fat to increase brown fat thermogenesis and fat burning overall.
琥珀酸作用于棕色脂肪，增加棕色脂肪的产热和整体脂肪燃烧。
It actually increases body heat through this brown fat thermogenesis pathway.
它实际上通过这种棕色脂肪产热途径增加身体热量。
And it also over time can increase the amount of brown fat by converting beige fat into true brown fat.
随着时间的推移，它还可以通过将米色脂肪转化为真正的棕色脂肪来增加棕色脂肪的数量。
Now, how much cold exposure and how often, that's the key.
现在，暴露多少寒冷以及多久，这就是关键。
But before I give that detail or set of details, remember, if you resist the shiver, you are not going to get the increased metabolic effect because you are not going to get the succinate release.
但在我给出这个或一组细节之前，请记住，如果你抵制颤抖，你将不会获得新陈代谢增加的效果，因为你不会得到琥珀酸的释放。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if you want to get your body heat, your thermogenic level, to go up, you need to shiver.
因此，如果你想让你的体温、你的产热水平上升，你需要颤抖。
So now we have the NEAT, the non-exercise activity thermogenesis.
现在我们有了 NEAT，即非运动生热活动。
So low levels of activity, as I described before, which are done away from cold, maybe do them in cold as well, as well as shiver in response to cold.
正如我之前所描述的，如此低的活动水平是在远离寒冷的情况下进行的，也许在寒冷的情况下也会进行，以及因寒冷而颤抖。
And so the shiver itself is valuable for triggering the release of succinate.
因此，颤抖本身对于触发琥珀酸的释放很有价值。
In fact, succinate is being evolved now by various drug manufacturers as a potential treatment for obesity, although it hasn't really hit the market in its final form yet.
事实上，琥珀酸现在正被多家制药商开发为肥胖症的潜在治疗方法，尽管它的最终形式尚未真正投放市场。
Succinate is powerful for its effects on brown fat.
琥珀酸对棕色脂肪具有强大的作用。
So how many times a week do you need to expose yourself to cold will depend on how much fat you're trying to lose and how much you're trying to increase your metabolism.
因此，您每周需要多少次暴露在寒冷中取决于您想要减掉多少脂肪以及您想要提高新陈代谢的程度。
There are studies that describe positive effects on fat loss of exposing yourself to cold, either through cold shower or through ice bath or other cold water.
有研究描述了让自己暴露在寒冷中（通过冷水淋浴、冰浴或其他冷水）对减肥有积极的影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It doesn't have to actually have ice in it, provided it's cold enough.
只要足够冷，里面不一定要加冰。
For any time, anywhere, excuse me, between one and five times per week.
任何时间、任何地点，请原谅，每周一到五次。
But it turns out that just one exposure per week can be valuable.
但事实证明，每周一次的曝光就很有价值。
The question then is how long to get into that cold environment and how cold should that environment be?
那么问题是要进入那个寒冷的环境需要多长时间以及那个环境应该有多冷？
So first, let's talk about how long to get into that cold environment.
首先，我们来谈谈进入那种寒冷的环境需要多长时间。
The answer here might be a little bit different than you might imagine.
这里的答案可能与您想象的有点不同。
Most of you might think, "Oh, well, if one minute is good, three minutes is better.
你们中的大多数人可能会想：“哦，好吧，如果一分钟很好，那么三分钟更好。
And if three minutes is better, then 10 minutes is best." But remember, the goal is to get the shiver-induced release of succinate so that succinate can trigger the brown fat.
如果三分钟更好，那么十分钟最好。”但请记住，我们的目标是让颤抖引起的琥珀酸释放，以便琥珀酸能够引发棕色脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It turns out that if you want to trigger the shiver, what you want to do is to get into the cold, and then get out of the cold and typically not dry off, and then get back into the cold and out of the cold.
事实证明，如果你想引发颤抖，你要做的就是进入寒冷，然后离开寒冷，通常不会干燥，然后再次进入寒冷，然后离开寒冷。
That will definitely stimulate more shivering than just getting into the cold itself.
这肯定会比仅仅感冒本身更让人发抖。
So what I'm not referring to is getting into the cold environment like an ice bath and waiting until you shiver and staying there shivering.
所以我指的不是进入冰浴等寒冷的环境，等到你发抖并呆在那里发抖。
You also don't want to get hypothermic, and I want to be clear, you want to get approval from your doctor before you do any of this.
你也不想体温过低，我想明确的是，在做任何事情之前你都想得到你的医生的批准。
When you get into cold water, there are two factors that will dictate whether or not you shiver, probably three.
当你进入冷水时，有两个因素会决定你是否发抖，可能是三个因素。
But let's just talk about the main two.
但我们只谈谈主要的两个。
One is how cold it is.
一是天气有多冷。
So how cold should it be?
那么应该有多冷呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you get into water that's very, very cold, it can actually shock your heart.
如果你进入非常非常冷的水中，你的心脏实际上会受到震动。
It can actually give you a heart attack if it's truly, truly ice cold and you're not adapted to that.
如果天气真的非常冷，而你又不适应的话，它实际上可能会让你心脏病发作。
So proceed with caution, please.
所以请谨慎行事。
I'm not a physician and I don't want to see anyone get hurt.
我不是医生，我不想看到任何人受到伤害。
Cold, just cold enough to be uncomfortable is a good place to start.
冷，只要冷到让人不舒服就是一个很好的起点。
So for some of you that's going to be 60 degrees.
所以对于你们中的一些人来说这将是 60 度。
For some of you that's going to be 55 degrees.
对于你们中的一些人来说，这将是 55 度。
For some of you it's going to be high 30s.
对于你们中的一些人来说，这将是 30 多岁。
Depends on how cold adapted you are.
取决于你对寒冷的适应程度。
And people vary in terms of how well they tolerate the cold.
人们对寒冷的耐受程度也各不相同。
So what you need to do is find a temperature that you can get into one to five, probably one to three times a week if you really want this to accelerate fat loss.
所以你需要做的是找到一个可以达到一到五度的温度，如果你真的想加速减脂的话，可能每周一到三次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you want to get in until you just start to shiver.
你想进去，直到你开始颤抖。
And then you want to get out and not dry off.
然后你想出去而不是擦干。
Wait anywhere from one to three minutes, and then get back into the cold.
等待一到三分钟，然后再回到寒冷中。
Now, you'll notice when you get back into the cold, it'll almost seem soothing.
现在，你会发现，当你重新回到寒冷的环境中时，它几乎会让人感到舒缓。
It might actually not induce shiver; it might take away the shiver that you were, that you had.
它实际上可能不会引起颤抖；它可能会消除你曾经的颤抖。
So here's a potential kind of sets-reps protocol that you can play with.
因此，这里有一种潜在的组数-次数协议可供您使用。
Find a temperature that induces shiver for you.
找到一个能让你颤抖的温度。
That's going to vary depending on your cold tolerance and how cold adapted you are.
这将根据您的耐冷能力和寒冷适应程度而有所不同。
One to three, maybe five times a week.
每周一到三次，也许五次。
Get under the shower, or whatever it is, until you start to shiver, genuinely shiver.
冲个澡，或者不管是什么，直到你开始颤抖，真正的颤抖。
Then after about a minute or so, get out, spend one to three minutes out, but don't dry off.
大约一分钟左右后，出去，花一到三分钟，但不要擦干。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Get back in for anywhere from one to three minutes, but try and access the shiver point again.
回到任何地方一到三分钟，但尝试再次进入颤抖点。
And you might do three repetitions of that.
你可以重复三遍。
So it's three times in and three times out, total.
所以一共进了三次，出去了三次。
Okay?
好的？
That's a great starting place.
这是一个很好的起点。
And what you don't want to do is build up your tolerance to cold so fast that pretty soon you're able to resist the shiver.
你不想做的就是你对寒冷的耐受力建立得太快，以至于很快你就能抵抗颤抖。
Because remember, the shiver is the source of the succinate release that will trigger brown fat thermogenesis.
因为请记住，颤抖是琥珀酸释放的来源，琥珀酸释放将引发棕色脂肪产热。
So if you'd like to see this protocol spelled out, you can access it zero-cost at a website, which is thecoldplunge.com.
因此，如果您想查看该协议的详细说明，您可以在网站 thecoldplunge.com 上零成本访问它。
The Cold Plunge is a company — they make cold plunges, and they were kind enough to gift one to the Huberman Lab podcast.
Cold Plunge 是一家公司——他们进行冷跳，并且他们很友善地向 Huberman Lab 播客赠送了一个。
But I want to emphasize that these protocols are free of cost.
但我想强调的是，这些协议是免费的。
The folks at the Cold Plunge are not just interested in marketing their product.
Cold Plunge 的人们不仅仅对营销他们的产品感兴趣。
But one of their main interests is encouraging people to engage in cold exposure for particular endpoints and goals like fat loss, resilience, et cetera, resisting inflammation.
但他们的主要兴趣之一是鼓励人们进行寒冷暴露以达到特定的终点和目标，例如减肥、恢复力等、抵抗炎症。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But their main focus is providing people protocols and encouraging people to use cold exposure of various kinds.
但他们的主要重点是为人们提供协议并鼓励人们使用各种冷暴露方式。
Not just through their products, but through cold rivers and jumps in the ocean and things like cold showers, whatever is most convenient and accessible for various people.
不仅通过他们的产品，还通过寒冷的河流和海洋的跳跃以及冷水淋浴等对各种人来说最方便和容易获得的东西。
And so we needed a place where we could house these protocols in a permanent way, and not just for this episode, so what they've agreed to do is to post the protocols there.
因此，我们需要一个可以永久保存这些协议的地方，而不仅仅是这一集，所以他们同意将协议发布在那里。
They should be very easy to find on their website.
他们应该很容易在他们的网站上找到。
This particular protocol we're referring to as the fat loss optimization protocol, for lack of a better name.
由于缺乏更好的名称，我们将这种特殊的协议称为减脂优化协议。
And it's really grounded in how cold can be used to induce shiver.
它实际上是基于寒冷可以引起颤抖的程度。
And again, it doesn't really matter how you're accessing that cold provided you access the shiver and you're moving from the cold environment to a slightly warmer environment.
再说一次，只要你能感到颤抖，并且你从寒冷的环境转移到稍微温暖的环境，那么你如何承受寒冷并不重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So getting out of the cold shower or getting out of the ice bath, et cetera, or out of the cold plunge and then back in.
因此，从冷水淋浴中出来，或者从冰浴中出来，等等，或者从冷水中出来，然后再回来。
Because it turns out that the cooling and rewarming process of the body is where shiver kicks in.
因为事实证明，身体的冷却和复温过程是颤抖发生的地方。
And so that's distinctly different than just trying to get into the cold and stay in the cold for as long as possible.
因此，这与试图进入寒冷并尽可能长时间地呆在寒冷中是截然不同的。
And if you zoom out a little bit and think about some examples in life, you'll understand why that must be the case.
如果你稍微放远一点，思考一下生活中的一些例子，你就会明白为什么会是这样。
For instance, people who do a lot of cold water swims, you have these polar bear clubs, I think they call themselves, do these cold water swims.
例如，那些经常在冷水中游泳的人，你有这些北极熊俱乐部，我想他们称自己为“进行这些冷水游泳”。
I would sometimes see these people swimming back and forth to Alcatraz and stuff like that, which just seems risky.
我有时会看到这些人来回游到恶魔岛之类的地方，这似乎很危险。
And they tell me is very stimulating for the mind and body.
他们告诉我这对身心都非常刺激。
Great.
伟大的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sometimes those people are very lean.
有时这些人非常瘦。
Oftentimes they're not.
通常情况并非如此。
And they're getting a lot of cold exposure.
他们受到大量寒冷的照射。
And one of the things that happens is if you expose yourself to cold over and over, you adapt.
发生的事情之一是，如果你一次又一次地将自己暴露在寒冷中，你就会适应。
You become cold adapted.
你变得适应寒冷。
And when you do that, you no longer get the epinephrine, the adrenaline release from the cold.
当你这样做时，你就不再获得肾上腺素，即寒冷时释放的肾上腺素。
And therefore you don't get the succinate release and the shivering and the brown fat thermogenic effect quite as intensely.
因此，琥珀酸盐的释放、颤抖和棕色脂肪的产热效应不会那么强烈。
So if you want to use cold for other reasons, and certainly cold water swims can be fun.
因此，如果您出于其他原因想使用冷水，那么冷水游泳当然会很有趣。
And as long as you can do them safely, they're great.
只要你能安全地完成它们，它们就很棒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've gotten into cold water swimming for some period of time.
我已经在冷水里游泳有一段时间了。
You can use cold for resilience, et cetera.
你可以利用寒冷来恢复活力，等等。
But if you want to use cold to increase fat loss, then getting this shiver process going, the cooling and rewarming which accelerates the amount or increases the amount of shiver, that's going to be the way to go.
但如果你想用寒冷来增加脂肪减少，那么让这个颤抖过程继续下去，冷却和复温会加速或增加颤抖的数量，这将是正确的方法。
One note about cold and some of the factors that it releases.
关于寒冷及其释放的一些因素的注释。
A few years back, there was a lot of excitement about this hormone called Irisin, I-R-I-S-I-N, which was associated with cold.
几年前，人们对这种名为鸢尾素 (I-R-I-S-I-N) 的激素感到非常兴奋，它与寒冷有关。
And there was a lot of excitement about its potential role in-
人们对它的潜在作用感到非常兴奋——
PART 1 OF 3 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 1 部分（共 3 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
And there was a lot of excitement about its potential role in increasing metabolism.
人们对它在促进新陈代谢方面的潜在作用感到非常兴奋。
So much so that people were starting to explore this as a potential fat-loss drug.
以至于人们开始探索它作为一种潜在的减肥药物。
To my knowledge, that went nowhere.
据我所知，那毫无进展。
The science eventually shifted over to succinate as the main factor in cold-induced thermogenesis through this brown fat pathway.
科学最终转向琥珀酸作为通过这种棕色脂肪途径冷诱导产热的主要因素。
But if anyone out there is aware of any positive effects of a ricin, or of any science of a ricin, that I'm overlooking here or that I'm speaking about incorrectly, please let me know.
但是，如果有人知道我在这里忽略的或我错误地谈论的蓖麻毒素或蓖麻毒素的任何科学的任何积极作用，请告诉我。
I'd be very curious to learn.
我会很好奇去学习。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, I want to just talk about brown fat a little bit more and talk about a period in your life in which you were rich with brown fat; you had a ton of brown fat; and that's when you were a baby.
现在，我想多谈谈棕色脂肪，谈谈你生命中富含棕色脂肪的一段时期；你有大量的棕色脂肪；那是你还是个婴儿的时候。
Babies can't shiver.
婴儿不能发抖。
These neurons that release epinephrine into fat are not wired up and really aren't present at sufficient levels, or in sufficient numbers, when you are a baby, and therefore you can't shiver as a baby, and you can't warm yourself up in cold environments very well.
当你还是个婴儿的时候，这些将肾上腺素释放到脂肪中的神经元并没有连接起来，而且实际上没有足够的水平或足够的数量，因此你在婴儿时期不能发抖，也不能在寒冷的环境中很好地让自己暖和起来。
To compensate for that, Mother Nature installed, in all of us, an excess of brown fat early in life that exists, again, in the upper back and the middle of the back and the back of the neck.
为了弥补这一点，大自然在我们所有人的生命早期就植入了过量的棕色脂肪，这些脂肪又存在于上背部、背部中部和颈后部。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Over time, if we don't expose ourselves to cold environments or do other things that make us shiver, we lose a lot of that brown fat.
随着时间的推移，如果我们不将自己暴露在寒冷的环境中或做其他让我们发抖的事情，我们就会失去大量的棕色脂肪。
But what's interesting about brown fat is that there's some evidence that brown fat, just like white fat, can both increase in size, but that you can also add new cells.
但棕色脂肪的有趣之处在于，有一些证据表明，棕色脂肪和白色脂肪一样，都可以增加体积，而且还可以添加新细胞。
Now, this is a little bit controversial.
现在，这有点有争议。
People always say you can't change the number of fat cells.
人们总是说你无法改变脂肪细胞的数量。
You can just shrink them or increase their size.
您可以缩小它们或增大它们的大小。
Well, it turns out that epinephrine released from these little nerve endings in brown fat and succinate circulating in the body may, and I want to underscore may, have the effect of increasing the amount of brown fat cells, probably by converting these beige fat cells into brown fat.
事实证明，体内循环的棕色脂肪和琥珀酸盐中的这些小神经末梢释放的肾上腺素可能，而且我想强调的是，可能具有增加棕色脂肪细胞数量的作用，可能是通过将这些米色脂肪细胞转化为棕色脂肪。
So that allows us to become much as we were early in life, where we metabolized like crazy and we'd heat ourselves up without shivering.
因此，这使我们能够变得像年轻时一样，疯狂地新陈代谢，我们会在不发抖的情况下让自己发热。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people have taken the cold thing to the extreme, putting ice packs on the back of their neck throughout the day.
有些人把寒冷的感觉发挥到了极致，整天把冰袋放在脖子后面。
Did episode all about testosterone and estrogen.
这集的内容都是关于睾酮和雌激素的。
And there's this, let's just call it a very niche, I have to imagine very, very niche culture of people who are wearing, literally, I'm not joking, they're these cool pack, ice pack underpants.
就是这样，我们就称其为非常小众，我必须想象非常非常小众的文化，从字面上看，我不是在开玩笑，他们是这些很酷的冰袋内裤。
They go by a name that I'm not going to repeat on here, but you can find them on Amazon.
它们的名称我不会在这里重复，但您可以在亚马逊上找到它们。
Those are people that are using cold packs on the body and on the groin to try and increase things like testosterone, but as well to try and increase thermogenesis in trying to increase their metabolism.
这些人在身体和腹股沟上使用冷敷来尝试增加睾酮等物质，同时也尝试增加生热作用，以提高新陈代谢。
Just remember, if you become cold adapted, you're not going to get the fat burning effects to the same degree.
请记住，如果您适应寒冷，您将不会获得相同程度的脂肪燃烧效果。
So cold is a powerful tool for fat loss, but you don't want to adapt.
所以寒冷是减肥的有力工具，但你却不想适应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is reminiscent of a rule that you hear about in endurance exercise and in strength exercise as well, which is that you want to use the minimal effective stimulus to promote growth or progress.
这让人想起您在耐力运动和力量运动中听到的一条规则，即您要使用最小的有效刺激来促进生长或进步。
So growth of the muscle or improvements in endurance.
因此肌肉的增长或耐力的提高。
If you go 10% further on a run or 10% faster, you will likely see an improvement in performance, provided you recover, the next time you come back and do that same round of exercise.
如果您跑步时跑得更远 10% 或跑得更快 10%，只要您下次回来进行同一轮锻炼时恢复，您可能会看到表现有所改善。
You'll be able to do more work or complete the work more easily, et cetera.
您将能够做更多的工作或更轻松地完成工作等等。
You've adapted.
你已经适应了。
If you do 20% more distance or 20% more weight, you won't necessarily see the same commiserate level of gain or improvement.
如果您增加 20% 的距离或增加 20% 的重量，您不一定会看到相同水平的增益或改善。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so likewise with cold, if you're quickly moving from 30 seconds of exposure to 10 minutes of exposure, you're overlooking the opportunity to get the most fat loss and increase in metabolism by stepping it up in smaller increments.
同样，对于寒冷，如果您很快从 30 秒的暴露时间改为 10 分钟的暴露时间，那么您就错过了通过以较小的增量增加新陈代谢来最大程度地减少脂肪和增加新陈代谢的机会。
And this also speaks to the rationale for using cold exposure to accelerate fat loss for certain periods, but then maybe not doing it year-round if fat loss is your goal.
这也说明了在某些时期使用寒冷暴露来加速减脂的理由，但如果减脂是你的目标，那么可能不会全年都这样做。
Maybe use it for two, three months at a time and then stop for two, three months at a time because it is such a potent stimulus, provided you engage in the shiver.
也许一次使用两三个月，然后一次停止两三个月，因为只要你感到颤抖，它就是一种强有力的刺激。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Next, I'd like to move to exercise and how particular timing and types of exercise can vastly improve fat loss.
接下来，我想谈谈运动，以及特定的运动时间和运动类型如何能够极大地改善减脂效果。
Before I do that, I just want to mention a really important reference for those of you that are interested in learning more about how neurons connect to fat.
在此之前，我只想为那些有兴趣了解更多有关神经元如何与脂肪连接的人提供一个非常重要的参考。
This is certainly a paper that you'd want to look at if you're interested in diving deep into the literature and reading all the various studies.
如果您有兴趣深入研究文献并阅读所有各种研究，那么您肯定会想看看这篇论文。
It's a review, and the title of the review is "Neural innervation of white adipose tissue and the control of lipolysis." That's "Neural innervation of white adipose tissue and the control of lipolysis." It was published in Frontiers in Neuroendocrinology.
这是一篇评论，评论的标题是“白色脂肪组织的神经支配和脂肪分解的控制”。这就是“白色脂肪组织的神经支配和脂肪分解的控制”。它发表在《神经内分泌学前沿》上。
You can find that free online.
您可以在网上免费找到它。
They have the full text available.
他们有全文。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The first author is Bartness, B-A-R-T-N-E-S-S.
第一作者是 Bartness，B-A-R-T-N-E-S-S。
It's a great review, and I've talked about a number of things that are mentioned in the review.
这是一篇很棒的评论，我已经讨论了评论中提到的一些事情。
Follow the references in that review, in the reference trail, as we say, if you're interested in learning more about also how neurons control brown fat.
正如我们所说，如果您有兴趣了解更多有关神经元如何控制棕色脂肪的信息，请按照该评论中的参考文献进行操作。
And before I move to exercise, I also just want to highlight something that comes up every few years and has largely been considered myth now but that is actually more interesting than most people might think, which is this issue of spot reduction.
在开始锻炼之前，我还想强调一下每隔几年就会出现一次的事情，现在基本上被认为是神话，但实际上比大多数人想象的更有趣，这就是局部减少的问题。
In the '80s and '90s, there were a lot of commercials, late-night infomercials, where they would talk about spot reduction — you know, if you do sit-ups, will you lose abdominal fat?
在80年代和90年代，有很多广告，深夜电视广告，他们都会谈论局部减少——你知道，如果你做仰卧起坐，你会减掉腹部脂肪吗？
If you do hip raises or glute raises, will you lose glute and hip fat?
如果你做提臀或臀肌提升，你会减掉臀肌和臀部脂肪吗？
And I think everybody now believes that, and understands that, fat metabolism is something that happens systemically throughout the body, that some body fat is, quote, unquote, more "stubborn" than others.
我想现在每个人都相信并且理解脂肪代谢是全身系统性发生的事情，有些身体脂肪，引用或不引用，比其他脂肪更“顽固”。
Everyone varies in where they tend to store fat or lose fat last; a number of factors that influence that, in particular hormone receptors, but now at least in the scientific literature, spot reduction and the possibility of real true spot reduction, reductions in fat in a targeted way, a body part or body area targeted way is becoming more of a reality and may be a reality soon because exercise that triggers the activation of these nerve fibers, these neurons that innervate fat.
每个人储存脂肪或最后减掉脂肪的部位都不同；有许多因素会影响这一点，特别是激素受体，但现在至少在科学文献中，斑点减少和真正真正斑点减少的可能性，有针对性地减少脂肪，身体部位或身体区域有针对性的方式正在变得越来越现实，并且可能很快就会成为现实，因为运动会触发这些神经纤维的激活，这些神经元支配脂肪。
In theory, if you can increase the amount of epinephrine released at those particular fat pads, as they're called — they're actually called fat pads in the scientific literature.
理论上，如果你可以增加这些特定脂肪垫释放的肾上腺素的量，正如它们所称的那样，它们实际上在科学文献中被称为脂肪垫。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In theory, you could increase mobilization from those particular body fat sites.
理论上，您可以增加这些特定身体脂肪部位的动员。
Okay, so because the new view that, the modern understanding is that it's not adrenaline release systemically kind of bathing all your fat tissue, but rather it's neurons releasing adrenaline, epinephrine, locally that in theory, exercise that stimulates the release of epinephrine or exercise coupled with things like shiver or low-grade shaking movement or these, the NEAT, the non-exercise activity thermogenesis, could in theory lead to local enhancement of mobilization of fat tissue.
好吧，因为新的观点认为，现代的理解是，肾上腺素不是系统性地释放所有的脂肪组织，而是神经元在局部释放肾上腺素、肾上腺素，理论上，刺激肾上腺素释放的运动或运动加上诸如颤抖或低度晃动之类的东西，NEAT，非运动活动产热，理论上可以导致脂肪组织动员的局部增强。
So I think that spot reduction actually will soon be something that's possible using the appropriate technology.
所以我认为，使用适当的技术，现场减少实际上很快就会成为可能。
What does this mean for you now?
现在这对你来说意味着什么？
What could you possibly do for this, with this information now?
现在有了这些信息，您可以为此做些什么？
Well, I think it speaks to the fact that if one is going to engage in exercise, that doing exercise that involve lots of different body parts and movements is likely to encourage the maintenance and or growth of these neurons that innovate fat throughout the body.
嗯，我认为这说明了这样一个事实：如果一个人要参加锻炼，那么进行涉及许多不同身体部位和运动的锻炼可能会促进这些神经元的维持和/或生长，这些神经元会在全身产生脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What this means is changing up the pattern of exercise, engaging in novel types of movements may actually be one way that one can access these so-called stubborn body fat pads.
这意味着改变锻炼方式，进行新颖的运动实际上可能是人们接触这些所谓的顽固脂肪垫的一种方式。
Now, there's a little bit of speculation in the statement that I'm making, but if you think about it, it makes sense.
现在，我所做的声明中有一些猜测，但如果你仔细想想，就会发现这是有道理的。
If you become very adapted to a particular pattern of exercise, whether or not you're subcaloric or not — you're in maintenance calories or not — you are oxidizing some fat, always, and you're utilizing the neurons that innervate fat in a regular way.
如果你变得非常适应某种特定的运动模式，无论你是否处于低热量状态——是否处于维持热量状态——你总是会氧化一些脂肪，并且你正在利用以常规方式支配脂肪的神经元。
And pretty soon this innervation is going to shut off because there's no reason why this neural innervation of fat should continue to release epinephrine unless you give it a strong stimulus like cold or the fidgeting or in this case to do novel forms of exercise.
很快这种神经支配就会关闭，因为脂肪的神经支配没有理由继续释放肾上腺素，除非你给它一个强烈的刺激，比如寒冷或坐立不安，或者在这种情况下进行新形式的锻炼。
And there's some anecdotal evidence, and there, I don't even want to call it data, but anecdotal evidence that people who have, quote unquote, "stubborn body fat," if they start to adopt new patterns of exercise, they can start to access those stubborn fat pads.
有一些轶事证据，我什至不想称之为数据，但有轶事证据表明，那些拥有“顽固脂肪”的人，如果他们开始采用新的锻炼模式，他们就可以开始接触那些顽固的脂肪垫。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And again, fat pads is the correct way to refer to these in the scientific literature.
再说一次，脂肪垫是科学文献中提及这些的正确方式。
What we're focusing on today is the fact that fat indeed will be mobilized and oxidized in response to a deficit in calories.
我们今天关注的事实是，脂肪确实会因热量不足而被动员和氧化。
But that the way that neurons control those fat pads and those body fat stores affords you a lot more control than perhaps you ever previously thought.
但是，神经元控制脂肪垫和体内脂肪储存的方式为您提供了比您以前想象的更多的控制力。
Let's talk about movement and the more traditional kinds of movement, aka exercise, that has been shown to lead to increases in metabolism and fat loss to greater degrees, depending on whether or not, for instance, you're fasted when you do it or not.
让我们来谈谈运动和更传统的运动类型，也就是锻炼，它已被证明可以在更大程度上促进新陈代谢和减少脂肪，这取决于你是否在做运动时禁食。
Whether or not you do your cardio first or your resistance training first.
无论您是先进行有氧运动还是先进行阻力训练。
And this is, again, in a literature for which there's a lot of controversy, but in digging through all the studies on this, we're finally starting to arrive at a consensus of when is best to do exercise and what types of exercise to do if your goal is fat loss.
这又是一篇存在很多争议的文献，但在深入研究所有相关研究后，我们终于开始就何时最好进行锻炼以及如果您的目标是减脂则应进行哪些类型的锻炼达成共识。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The topic of exercise is kind of a controversial one.
锻炼这个话题是一个有争议的话题。
Not as controversial as nutrition and diet, which we will talk about in a few minutes, but it's a particularly interesting one because different types of exercise engage the musculature of the body and the heart and the lungs in different ways and can have vastly different effects on things like hormones and metabolism, depending on whether or not it's of high intensity, modern intensity or low intensity.
它不像营养和饮食那样有争议，我们将在几分钟后讨论，但它是一个特别有趣的运动，因为不同类型的运动以不同的方式参与身体、心脏和肺部的肌肉组织，并且可以对激素和新陈代谢等产生截然不同的影响，具体取决于它是高强度、现代强度还是低强度。
Rather than think about weight training versus cardiovascular exercise, I think the most simple way, the most fluid way, to have this conversation about exercise and fat loss is in terms of three general types of training; whether or not it's done with weights or body weight, doesn't really matter.
我认为，讨论运动和减肥的最简单、最流畅的方式是三种一般类型的训练，而不是考虑重量训练和心血管运动。无论是用重量还是体重来完成，都并不重要。
And those are high-intensity interval training.
这些都是高强度间歇训练。
Something that seems to have gained a lot of popularity in recent years.
近年来似乎很受欢迎的东西。
So-called hit, H-I-I-T.
所谓的命中，H-I-I-T。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
High-intensity interval training.
高强度间歇训练。
Sprint interval training, so that's going to be very high intensity, or S-I-T, or moderate-intensity continuous training, M-I-C-T.
冲刺间歇训练，因此将是非常高强度的训练，或 S-I-T，或中等强度的持续训练，M-I-C-T。
We've got HIIT, SIT, and MICT.
我们有 HIIT、SIT 和 MICT。
And we can get a little bit more precise if you'd like.
如果您愿意，我们可以提供更精确的信息。
I'm not somebody who measures my VO2 max or anything while I exercise.
我不会在锻炼时测量最大摄氧量或其他任何东西。
I generally know whether or not I'm doing something I could continue for a very long time or whether or not I'm doing something that I realize is going to be of short duration, high intensity.
我通常知道我是否正在做一些可以持续很长时间的事情，或者我是否正在做一些我意识到持续时间短、强度高的事情。
But if you'd like to map this to VO2 max, SIT — this sprint interval training — was defined as all-out, greater than 100% of VO2 max, burst of activity that lasts eight to 30 seconds, interspersed with less intense recovery period.
但如果你想将其映射到最大摄氧量，SIT（这种冲刺间歇训练）被定义为全力以赴、大于最大摄氧量的 100%、持续 8 到 30 秒的爆发性活动，中间穿插着强度较低的恢复期。
So this would be sprinting down downfield for eight to 30 seconds, then maybe walking back for about a minute or two, and then sprinting again, and then continuing.
因此，这将是向前场冲刺 8 到 30 秒，然后可能向后走大约一两分钟，然后再次冲刺，然后继续。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That would be S-I-T.
那就是 S-I-T。
HIIT, H-I-I-T, is defined as submaximal, so 80 to 100% of VO2 max, bursts of activity that lasts 60 to 240 seconds, interspersed with less intense recovery periods.
HIIT，H-I-I-T，被定义为次最大，即最大摄氧量的 80% 到 100%，持续 60 到 240 秒的爆发性活动，中间穿插着强度较低的恢复期。
So on standard 400-meter track, just to give this a little bit of a visual, a four-minute mile would be fantastic for most people, although people run faster than that of course.
因此，在标准 400 米跑道上，只是为了给大家带来一点视觉感受，对于大多数人来说，四分钟一英里就已经是太棒了，尽管人们跑得比这当然更快。
That's four 60-second laps, but that's back to back.
那是四圈 60 秒的圈，但那是背靠背的。
I think in my best shape, or maybe it was in my dreams, I don't recall which, I was able to do 60 seconds around the track, but of course I couldn't get that on the second or third or fourth.
我认为在我最好的状态下，或者也许是在我的梦中，我不记得是哪一个，我能够在赛道上跑60秒，但当然我在第二、第三或第四时就无法做到这一点。
If I did, that was certainly in the fantasyland and not reality.
如果我这样做了，那肯定是在幻想世界，而不是现实。
But 60 seconds would be about one revolution around the track.
但 60 秒大约相当于绕跑道一圈。
Maybe 90 seconds, depending on how fast one is running.
也许 90 秒，取决于跑的速度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sixty to 240 seconds, M-I-C-T.
六十到 240 秒，M-I-C-T。
Okay.
好的。
This moderate-intensity continuous training is steady-state cardio, sometimes called Zone 2 cardio these days on the Internet, which is performed continuously for 20 to 60 minutes, at moderate intensity of 40 to 60% of VO2 Max.
这种中等强度的持续训练就是稳态有氧运动，有时在互联网上称为“2 区有氧运动”，以最大摄氧量 40 至 60% 的中等强度连续进行 20 至 60 分钟。
Or if you prefer heart rate, 55 to 70% of max heart rate.
或者，如果您更喜欢心率，则为最大心率的 55% 到 70%。
Okay?
好的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We can think about high, medium and low-intensity exercise, although low-intensity usually means that you could carry on a conversation, or maybe you have to gasp every few steps or so while trying to talk and run.
我们可以考虑高、中、低强度的锻炼，尽管低强度通常意味着你可以继续谈话，或者可能在尝试说话和跑步时每隔几步就得喘气。
That's, I think, going to be the most useful way to have this conversation that we're having now because there's so many different forms of exercise that people do, and the intensity is important.
我认为，这将是我们现在进行对话的最有用的方式，因为人们进行的锻炼有很多不同形式，而且强度很重要。
Let's ask the question that I think many people are wondering about, which is is it better?
让我们问一个我想很多人都想知道的问题，哪个更好？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Meaning, do you burn more fat if you do your exercise fasted.
意思是，如果你禁食锻炼，你会燃烧更多的脂肪吗？
And fasted in this respect could be that you wake up in the morning, you've been fasting all night, you just hydrate and you exercise.
在这方面禁食可能是你早上醒来，整夜禁食，你只是补充水分和锻炼。
Or sometimes people ingest caffeine.
或者有时人们会摄入咖啡因。
There's controversy as to whether or not that "breaks the fast," has to do with whether or not you're caffeine adapted, something for another episode.
关于这是否“打破斋戒”存在争议，是否与你是否适应咖啡因有关，这是另一集的内容。
In any case, that would be fasted.
无论如何，那都是禁食的。
So probably not having eaten anything for anywhere from three to 24 hours, or maybe even more.
因此，可能有 3 到 24 小时甚至更长时间没有吃任何东西。
Because you could also be fasted in the afternoon if you had lunch at noon and it's four or five or 6:00 p.m.
因为如果您中午吃过午饭，而且现在是下午四点、五点或 6:00，那么您也可以在下午禁食。
Is it, will you burn more fat if you exercise without eating anything first, without ingesting any calories first?
是吗，如果你不先吃任何东西、不先摄入任何卡路里就锻炼，你会燃烧更多的脂肪吗？
And people have tried to really split hairs on this every which way.
人们已经试图从各个方面对此进行真正的争论。
People say, well, you can fat fast because fat and protein doesn't lead to as great increases in insulin as other things.
人们说，你可以快速增肥，因为脂肪和蛋白质不会像其他物质那样导致胰岛素大幅增加。
Maybe you can have a few almonds and then still train.
也许你可以吃一些杏仁然后继续训练。
And indeed, insulin will prevent fat oxidation.
事实上，胰岛素可以防止脂肪氧化。
I want to be really clear.
我想说得很清楚。
The burning part of fat in the cell, the movement of the fatty acid to mitochondria and the conversion to ATP — insulin inhibits that process.
细胞中脂肪的燃烧部分、脂肪酸向线粒体的移动以及向 ATP 的转化——胰岛素会抑制这一过程。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
However, it's been shown that at least for short periods of training, it doesn't really seem to matter whether or not you eat before training or you don't if your goal is fat oxidation.
然而，研究表明，至少在短期训练中，如果你的目标是脂肪氧化，那么训练前是否进食似乎并不重要。
Now, I want to put an asterisk near that because there are some exceptions.
现在，我想在其附近加一个星号，因为有一些例外。
But there were several studies done that, and the kind of classic ones of these I'll read out to you.
但有几项研究是这样做的，我将向你们宣读其中的经典研究。
What they basically did is they gave people glucose.
他们基本上所做的就是给人们葡萄糖。
Sugar.
糖。
Blood...
血...
to increase their blood sugar before training or not.
在训练前或训练前增加血糖。
And the kind of classic study of this is Al Borg et al., in 1976; it goes way back; which is that glucose reduces fat burning in exercise.
Al Borg 等人于 1976 年对此进行了经典研究；它可以追溯到很久以前；也就是说，葡萄糖会减少运动中的脂肪燃烧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then some other studies, if you want to look these up, they're very easy to find on PubMed.
然后还有一些其他研究，如果你想查找这些，在 PubMed 上很容易找到。
You put in Horowitz, 1999.
你放入 Horowitz，1999。
Lee et al.
李等人。
is another one where they have people drink milk with glucose in it.
另一种是人们喝含有葡萄糖的牛奶。
Sweet sugary milk before exercise, et cetera.
运动前喝甜甜的含糖牛奶等等。
And you can find a number of examples where eating before exercise reduces the amount of fat that's oxidized during the exercise.
您可以找到许多例子，证明运动前进食可以减少运动过程中氧化的脂肪量。
And you can also find a lot of studies showing that eating during exercise will, or prior to exercise will not, reduce the amount of fat that's oxidized.
您还可以发现很多研究表明，运动期间或运动前进食不会减少氧化的脂肪量。
However, the types of exercise, whether that was medium-intensity or high-intensity or low-intensity is all over the map for these studies.
然而，运动的类型，无论是中等强度、高强度还是低强度，都在这些研究的范围内。
It's very hard to target an ideal protocol.
很难确定一个理想的协议。
And then if you look really deep in the literature, you start to find meta-analyses where people have actually aggregated all the findings and some modern studies where it points to some very specific and useful protocols.
然后，如果你真正深入研究文献，你就会开始发现荟萃分析，人们实际上汇总了所有的发现，以及一些现代研究，其中指出了一些非常具体和有用的方案。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Here's the rule that, or the protocol that, I extracted from that literature.
这是我从文献中提取的规则或协议。
At a period of about 90 minutes of moderate-intensity exercise, I want to be clear, at about or after 90 minutes of moderate-intensity exercise, there's a switchover point whereby if you ate before the exercise, you will reduce, excuse me, you burn far less fat from the 90-minute point onward than you would if you had gone into the training fasted.
在大约90分钟的中等强度运动期间，我想澄清的是，在中等强度运动的大约90分钟或之后，有一个转换点，如果你在运动前吃东西，你会减少，对不起，从90分钟开始，你燃烧的脂肪比你禁食训练时燃烧的脂肪少得多。
Let me repeat that.
让我重复一遍。
If it's moderate-intensity, so-called Zone 2 cardio-type exercise, at the 90-minute point, if you happen to have eaten before the exercise, within one to three hours prior to the exercise, then you reduce the amount of fat that you will burn from 90 minutes onward.
如果是中等强度，所谓的2区有氧运动，在90分钟的时候，如果你碰巧在运动前吃过东西，在运动前一到三个小时内，那么你会减少从90分钟开始燃烧的脂肪量。
Whereas, if you had fasted prior to the exercise, you hadn't eaten anything for three hours or more prior to the exercise at the 90-minute point, 90 minutes of exercise, you will start to burn more fat than you would had you eaten.
然而，如果您在运动前禁食，并且在运动前 3 小时或更长时间没有吃任何东西，那么在 90 分钟点，即 90 分钟的运动中，您将开始燃烧比进食时更多的脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, 90 minutes of moderate-intensity exercise is a lot.
现在，90分钟的中等强度运动已经很多了。
That's a pretty long run.
这是一个相当漫长的过程。
Even if you're running at a pretty slow pace, like a 10 or 12-minute mile, that's a lot of running.
即使您以相当慢的速度跑步，例如 10 或 12 分钟一英里，这也已经是大量的跑步了。
That's a lot of swimming.
这是很多次游泳。
That's a lot of walking.
要走很多路。
That's a lot of hiking.
这是很多徒步旅行。
However, there are people who are going out hiking all day or running all day or walking all day, and if you want to burn more fat per unit time, you want to oxidize more fat, then you would do that fasted.
然而，有些人整天出去爬山，或者整天跑步，或者整天走路，如果你想在单位时间内燃烧更多的脂肪，你想氧化更多的脂肪，那么你就会禁食。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, there are also studies that point to the fact that you don't have to wait to 90 minutes in order to get this enhanced fat-burning effect.
现在，还有研究表明，您不必等待 90 分钟即可获得这种增强的脂肪燃烧效果。
The studies I was able to find and that looked to me like quality peer-reviewed studies with no company bias or no product bias of any kind — because they're studies that were largely funded by the Federal Government, in the university context — pointed to the fact that if one does high-intensity training or even the very high-intensity forms of training like sprints or squats or deadlifts or any kind of activity that can't be maintained for more than these eight or, I would say, up to 60 seconds: so a set of lifting weights repeated, repeated.
我能够找到的研究，在我看来是高质量的同行评审研究，没有公司偏见或任何形式的产品偏见——因为它们是在大学背景下主要由联邦政府资助的研究——指出了这样一个事实：如果一个人进行高强度训练，甚至是非常高强度的训练形式，如短跑、深蹲、硬拉或任何类型的活动，则不能维持超过这八项，或者我想说，最多 60 项秒：如此一组举重重复，重复。
If that's done for anywhere from 20 minutes, so weight training or power lifting or these kinds of things or kettlebell swings, or up to 60 minutes, well then the switchover point in which you can burn more fat if you go into that fasted, comes earlier.
如果进行 20 分钟（例如重量训练或力量举重或此类活动或壶铃摆动）或长达 60 分钟，那么如果您进入禁食状态，您可以燃烧更多脂肪的转换点就会提前到来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this makes sense because there's nothing holy about the 90-minute point for medium-intensity Zone 2 cardio.
这是有道理的，因为中等强度 2 区有氧运动的 90 分钟点并没有什么神圣之处。
That 90-minute point is the point in which the body shifts over from mainly burning glycogen, basically sugar that comes from muscles or the liver, and realizes this is going on for a while, I'm going to shift over to a storage site fuel that is in reserve, like body fat.
90 分钟的时间点是身体从主要燃烧糖原（主要是来自肌肉或肝脏的糖）转变的时间点，并意识到这种情况会持续一段时间，我将转向储备的储存燃料，如身体脂肪。
This is going to happen for a while, so I'm going to start tapping into body fat stores.
这种情况会持续一段时间，所以我将开始利用体内脂肪储存。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, fat doesn't have a little brain there.
现在，脂肪那里没有一点大脑。
It is innervated by neurons, but it doesn't have thoughts, and you don't actually control this switch with your mind.
它受神经元支配，但它没有思想，而且你实际上并不能用你的思想来控制这个开关。
This is something that has to do with the milieu of various hormones.
这与各种激素的环境有关。
What has to happen is insulin has to go down far enough.
必须发生的事情是胰岛素必须下降足够多。
So if you ate before the exercise, you'd have an increase in insulin.
因此，如果您在运动前进食，胰岛素就会增加。
If you ate carbohydrates, you'd have a bigger increase in insulin fat, and proteins indeed will have lower amounts of insulin, and fasting will give you the lowest amount of insulin.
如果你吃碳水化合物，你的胰岛素脂肪会增加更多，而蛋白质确实会含有较少量的胰岛素，而禁食会给你提供最低量的胰岛素。
Well, then that switchover point is going to come earlier in the exercise.
好吧，那么这个切换点将在练习中提前出现。
And if you think about it, if you were to do something high intensity for 20, 30, 40 minutes, so maybe lift weights and then get into Zone 2 cardio, if you are fasted, the literature says that you're going to burn more body fat per unit time than if you had eaten before or during the exercise.
如果你想一想，如果你要做 20、30、40 分钟的高强度运动，那么也许举重，然后进入 2 区有氧运动，如果你禁食，文献表明，与运动前或运动期间进食相比，每单位时间你会燃烧更多的身体脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What does this mean?
这意味着什么？
This means if you want to burn more body fat, if it's in your protocols and you have been approved to do this safely, exercise intensely for 20 to 60 minutes — the higher the intensity obviously the shorter that bout is going to be — and then move over into Zone 2 cardio.
这意味着，如果您想燃烧更多的身体脂肪，如果您的协议中有此规定，并且您已被批准可以安全地做到这一点，请剧烈运动 20 到 60 分钟——强度越高，显然运动时间越短——然后进入 2 区有氧运动。
And if you do that fasted, or the medium-intensity cardio, I should say.
我应该说，如果你禁食或进行中等强度的有氧运动。
And if you do that fasted, then indeed you will burn a higher percentage of body fat.
如果你禁食的话，你确实会燃烧更高比例的身体脂肪。
If you need to eat, or you like to eat before you train, that also can work.
如果您需要吃东西，或者您喜欢在训练前吃东西，那也可以。
And if you train very intensely, you're likely to shift over to the fat-burning pattern more quickly as well.
如果您训练强度很大，您也可能会更快地转向脂肪燃烧模式。
So again, this isn't really an issue of how long you exercise.
再说一遍，这实际上并不是锻炼时间的问题。
It's an issue of how intensely you exercise and therefore what fuel source you're drawing from.
问题在于你的锻炼强度以及你从什么来源获取能量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So hopefully I've made that clear.
希望我已经说清楚了。
But basically, you need to deplete glycogen, or through high-intensity exercise, and then move to a steady-state exercise that will allow you to burn more fat, or you need to perform a medium-intensity or low-intensity type exercise for a long period of time before you shift over to burning fat.
但基本上，你需要消耗糖原，或者通过高强度运动，然后转向稳态运动，这样可以让你燃烧更多的脂肪，或者你需要进行很长一段时间的中等强度或低强度类型的运动，然后再转向燃烧脂肪。
And indeed, it seems that going into all that fasted will facilitate the burning of more fat overall.
事实上，禁食似乎将有助于燃烧更多的脂肪。
But if you can't even get to the exercise, if you're somebody who just can't do the training at all, you're unwilling to or you're incapable of training unless you eat something, then obviously eating something makes the most sense.
但如果你根本无法进行锻炼，如果你根本无法进行训练，你不愿意或无法进行训练，除非你吃点东西，那么显然吃点东西是最有意义的。
And what you eat prior to exercise, that's a whole other biz that people argue about and fight about whether or not you should go into it with low carbohydrates or higher carb ...
运动前吃什么，这是一个完全不同的话题，人们争论并争论你是否应该吃低碳水化合物或高碳水化合物......
all of that.
所有这些。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In general, the theme there is very simple, which is that you want insulin levels to be pretty low if your goal is body fat reduction.
总的来说，那里的主题非常简单，那就是如果您的目标是减少体内脂肪，那么您希望胰岛素水平相当低。
If you want to oxidize body fat.
如果你想氧化体内脂肪。
Fasting in some cases, fat-fasting in other cases where you're just ingesting fats, fat and protein in some cases, or for some people it will be eating carbohydrates.
在某些情况下禁食，在其他情况下禁食，在某些情况下您只摄入脂肪，在某些情况下脂肪和蛋白质，或者对某些人来说，它会吃碳水化合物。
I'm not here to dictate a particular nutrition regimen.
我来这里并不是为了规定特定的营养方案。
That's just how the hormone balance of these things and fat oxidation works.
这就是这些东西的激素平衡和脂肪氧化的运作方式。
Now, one thing that's very interesting and cannot be overlooked is this issue of how much energy you burn during and after the activity.
现在，一件非常有趣且不容忽视的事情是你在活动期间和之后消耗了多少能量的问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And some of you probably already know about this, but the whole business of calories in versus calories out and people counting the number of calories they burn during their aerobic session or during their whatever session is only one half of the equation.
你们中的一些人可能已经知道这一点，但是卡路里摄入与卡路里消耗的整个过程以及人们在有氧运动或其他任何运动中计算燃烧的卡路里数量只是等式的一半。
And it really eclipses the more important issue, which is how much of an increase in metabolism does a given exercise create after the exercise?
它确实掩盖了更重要的问题，即特定运动在运动后会产生多少新陈代谢的增加？
We could talk for hours about this, but the simple way to view this is that high-intensity training, anaerobic training of weight training, sprints, burpees, any kind of thing.
我们可以花几个小时讨论这个问题，但简单的看待这个问题的方法是，高强度训练、无氧训练、举重训练、短跑、立卧撑跳，任何类型的训练。
I don't know, these days I see, I hear that you're not supposed to do burpees, that people think burpees are dangerous.
我不知道，这些天我看到，我听说你不应该做波比跳，人们认为波比跳很危险。
So I'm not suggesting any particular movements here.
所以我在这里不建议任何特定的动作。
You have to decide what's right for you.
您必须决定什么适合您。
I do burpees.
我做波比跳。
I don't seem to be injured from them, but I hear that they're terrible for some people.
我似乎没有受到它们的伤害，但我听说它们对某些人来说很可怕。
So anyway, push-up, sit-ups, whatever it happens to be.
所以无论如何，俯卧撑、仰卧起坐，无论发生什么。
That anaerobic exercise that's of higher intensity, or sprints, taps into glycogen stores during the movement and will burn more energy per unit time than moderate intensity.
较高强度的无氧运动或冲刺运动会在运动过程中利用糖原储存，并且每单位时间会比中等强度燃烧更多的能量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
High intensity burns more than moderate intensity, that's straightforward.
高强度燃烧比中等强度燃烧更多，这很简单。
What's interesting is that all the studies that I was able to find on what happens after that type of exercise showed that the percentage of fat that you burn after high-intensity exercise is actually greater.
有趣的是，我能够找到的关于此类运动后发生的情况的所有研究都表明，高强度运动后燃烧的脂肪百分比实际上更高。
In other words, you burn a lot of glycogen during the high-intensity exercise.
换句话说，你在高强度运动中会燃烧大量的糖原。
And then after the exercise, the postexercise oxygen consumption, as it's sometimes called, goes up.
运动后，运动后耗氧量（有时称为运动后耗氧量）会上升。
We know this after you train intensely that postexercise, oxygen consumption goes up sometimes for up to 24 hours, and it is during that period of time that you oxidize more fat, not glycogen.
我们知道，在你进行剧烈训练后，运动后，耗氧量有时会持续长达 24 小时，而正是在这段时间里，你氧化了更多的脂肪，而不是糖原。
Now, what's interesting is that the reverse is also true for people that do long bouts of low or moderate-intensity exercise.
现在，有趣的是，对于进行长时间低强度或中等强度运动的人来说，情况恰恰相反。
Typically this would be things like running, swimming, biking, et cetera.
通常，这会是跑步、游泳、骑自行车等。
So 60, 90 minutes, two hours, maybe even people that are training for marathons or half marathons, when they stop training, they burn more glycogen, more carbohydrate, even though they were burning more body fat per unit time during the low-intensity exercise.
所以60分钟、90分钟、两个小时，甚至可能是马拉松或半程马拉松训练的人，当他们停止训练时，他们会燃烧更多的糖原、更多的碳水化合物，尽管他们在低强度运动时单位时间燃烧更多的身体脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's this kind of inversion: high intensity burns more glycogen during the activity, more body fat afterwards.
存在这种逆转：高强度在活动期间燃烧更多的糖原，然后燃烧更多的身体脂肪。
Moderate to low intensity burns more percentage wise — more body fat is oxidized than glycogen during the movement, during the actual exercise.
中度至低强度的燃烧百分比更高——在实际运动过程中，运动过程中氧化的身体脂肪多于糖原。
Afterward, it's more glycogen.
之后，是更多的糖原。
So I don't want this to get too complicated.
所以我不希望事情变得太复杂。
The point is you should pick exercise that you like that you're going to do regularly.
关键是你应该选择你喜欢并且经常进行的运动。
But it does seem that the high-intensity exercise, followed by moderate-intensity exercise, is going to be optimal for fat burning overall because when you look at the percentage of body fat burned, and you look at the overall increase in basal metabolic rate, moderate and high-intensity training followed by low-intensity training, or even just followed by going back into life, is going to be the best way to continue to burn body fat because of the ways that it increases basal metabolic rate.
但似乎高强度运动，然后是中等强度运动，对于整体脂肪燃烧来说是最佳的，因为当你观察身体脂肪燃烧的百分比，以及基础代谢率的整体增加时，中等和高强度训练，然后是低强度训练，甚至只是随后回到生活中，将是继续燃烧身体脂肪的最佳方式，因为它会增加基础代谢率。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This could be distilled into a simple protocol whereby three or four times a week you do high-intensity training followed by either nothing or followed by low-intensity training, especially if you're able to do that fasted.
这可以简化为一个简单的方案，每周进行三到四次高强度训练，然后不进行任何训练或进行低强度训练，特别是如果您能够禁食的话。
And I should just mention that none of this stuff about fasted is about performance.
我只想提一下，所有关于禁食的事情都与表现无关。
If you want to perform really well, you want to, this is for reasons of performance and you want to, it's for a sport or a competition, it's not for body fat purposes.
如果你想表现得很好，你想，这是出于表现的原因，你想，这是为了一项运动或比赛，而不是为了身体脂肪。
Well then all this...
那么这一切...
PART 2 OF 3 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 2 部分（共 3 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
Or a competition it's not for body fat purposes, well then all of this kind of falls away and is modified by what's ideal to eat for performance.
或者一场不以身体脂肪为目的的比赛，那么所有这些都会消失，并被为了表现而理想的饮食习惯所改变。
But what we're talking about today is how to optimize body fat loss.
但我们今天讨论的是如何优化体内脂肪减少。
So train moderately to intensely, to very high intensity, and then moderate to low intensity.
因此，训练强度要从中等到高强度，再到非常高强度，然后再从中到低强度。
Or train moderate to high intensity and then go about life.
或者进行中等到高强度的训练，然后开始生活。
In fact, I have a friend who uses this strategy.
事实上，我有一个朋友就使用这个策略。
He likes the train-intensely-and-not-that-often protocol because he is a very busy person.
他喜欢这种密集但不那么频繁的训练方式，因为他是一个非常忙碌的人。
So he'll train for 20 or 30 minutes intensely with weights or just body weight movement doing a lot, he does burpees, and pushups, and sit ups, and pullups, and just kind of moving in circuit-type training.
因此，他会进行 20 或 30 分钟的高强度训练，进行大量的举重或自重运动，他会做立卧撑跳、俯卧撑、仰卧起坐、引体向上，以及一些循环式训练。
But where he is breathing really hard.
但他的呼吸真的很困难。
The goal, he always says, is "I want to breathe hard for 30 minutes every day." then afterwards he hydrates and drinks coffee and moves into his day, and he is walking around, and taking calls, and carrying around his children, and doing all these kinds of things that keep him really busy with kind of like low-intensity work.
他总是说，目标是“我想每天用力呼吸 30 分钟。”然后他补充水分，喝咖啡，开始自己的一天，他四处走动，接听电话，带着他的孩子，做所有这些让他真正忙碌于低强度工作的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I think you get the principle now.
所以我想你现在已经明白原理了。
But you should all be asking yourselves, as scientists of yourselves, why would it be that certain patterns of exercise would lead to more or less fat loss?
但作为科学家，你们都应该问自己，为什么某些运动模式会导致或多或少的减脂？
I mean it can't just be about the energy burned, we already established that.
我的意思是，这不仅仅与燃烧的能量有关，我们已经确定了这一点。
Again, it has to do with the neurons; it has to do with how we engage the nervous system.
同样，它与神经元有关。这与我们如何参与神经系统有关。
So while non-exercise activity-induced thermogenesis, the NEAT fidgeting and cold can induce thermogenesis by engaging shiver-type movement or low-level movements, big movements that are of very high intensity, meaning they require a lot of effort, deploy a lot of adrenaline, epinephrine, from our neurons and signal particular types and amounts of fat thermogenesis, fat oxidation.
因此，虽然非运动活动诱导生热，但 NEAT 坐立不安和寒冷可以通过颤抖型运动或低水平运动来诱导生热，这些运动强度非常高，这意味着它们需要大量的努力，从我们的神经元中部署大量肾上腺素，并向特定类型和数量的脂肪生热、脂肪氧化发出信号。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whereas low-level intensity exercise, low or moderate-intensity exercise: walking, running, biking, where you can do that easily, there's not very much adrenaline released.
而低强度运动、低或中等强度运动：步行、跑步、骑自行车，这些你可以轻松做到的运动，但不会释放太多肾上腺素。
So adrenaline, aka epinephrine, is really the final common path by which movement of any kind, whether or not it's lo- level shiver or whether or not it's lifting a barbell, sprinting up a hill, or doing a long bike ride, adrenaline is the effector of fat loss.
因此，肾上腺素，又名肾上腺素，实际上是任何类型的运动的最终共同途径，无论是低水平的颤抖，还是举起杠铃、冲刺上山，还是长时间骑自行车，肾上腺素都是减肥的效应器。
It's the trigger and it's the effector.
它是触发器，也是效应器。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So now I want to turn our attention to compounds that increase epinephrine and adrenaline as well as compounds that work outside the adrenaline, epinephrine, pathway to increase the rates of fat loss.
因此，现在我想将我们的注意力转向增加肾上腺素和肾上腺素的化合物，以及在肾上腺素、肾上腺素途径之外发挥作用以增加减脂率的化合物。
I almost always save compounds and supplements and things of that sort to the end because I do believe that people should look first towards behavioral tools and an understanding of the science before they look toward a supplement or a particular thing that they can extract from diet.
我几乎总是把化合物和补充剂之类的东西留到最后，因为我确实相信人们应该首先关注行为工具和对科学的理解，然后再寻找补充剂或可以从饮食中提取的特定物质。
This is mainly to try and shift people away from the kind of magic pill phenomenon, or the idea that there is a magic pill, because there really isn't, and frankly there never will be.
这主要是为了试图让人们远离那种神奇药丸的现象，或者说有神奇药丸的想法，因为真的不存在，坦率地说永远不会有。
But there are some compounds that can greatly increase fat oxidation and mobilization, and understanding which compounds increase oxidation or mobilization can be very useful if your goal is to accelerate fat loss.
但有些化合物可以大大增加脂肪的氧化和动员，如果您的目标是加速减脂，那么了解哪些化合物可以增加氧化或动员会非常有用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are things that people can ingest that will allow them to oxidize more fat.
人们可以摄入一些东西来氧化更多的脂肪。
That occurs mainly by increasing the amount of epinephrine that is released from neurons that innovate fat tissue.
这主要是通过增加产生脂肪组织的神经元释放的肾上腺素的量来实现的。
One of the more common ones is one that you may already be using, which is caffeine.
最常见的一种是您可能已经在使用的一种，那就是咖啡因。
It's well established that caffeine can enhance performance if you're caffeine adapted.
众所周知，如果您适应咖啡因，咖啡因可以提高表现。
I talked about this in an earlier episode so I want to make sure I'm very clear about this.
我在之前的一集中谈到过这一点，所以我想确保我对此非常清楚。
If you are not used to drinking caffeine and you suddenly decide I'm going to drink a big cup of coffee before training, you will vasoconstrict and you will limit performance.
如果你不习惯喝咖啡因，并且你突然决定在训练前喝一大杯咖啡，你的血管会收缩，并且会限制表现。
So that's performance.
这就是性能。
If you're caffeine adapted, however, there's this kind of interesting phenomenon where ingestion of caffeine serves more as a performance enhancer, both by increasing alertness but also by way of dilating vasculature, of allowing more blood flow.
然而，如果你已经适应了咖啡因，就会出现这种有趣的现象，即摄入咖啡因更多的是作为一种表现增强剂，既可以提高警觉性，又可以扩张脉管系统，让更多的血液流动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, caffeine for burning more fat, for oxidizing and mobilizing more fat, is an interesting one.
现在，咖啡因可以燃烧更多的脂肪，氧化和动员更多的脂肪，这是一种有趣的方法。
It can be effective at dosages up to 400 milligrams.
剂量高达 400 毫克即可有效。
You have to be careful if you're caffeine sensitive.
如果您对咖啡因敏感，则必须小心。
Some people have just the littlest bit of caffeine, and their mind goes crazy and they're very uncomfortable.
有些人只喝一点点咖啡因，他们的大脑就会变得疯狂，感到非常不舒服。
It can have cardiovascular effects for some people with hypertension, et cetera.
它可能对一些患有高血压等的人产生心血管影响。
So please check with your doctor.
所以请咨询你的医生。
But 400 milligrams is roughly a cup and a half of coffee or two cups of coffee.
但 400 毫克大约相当于一杯半咖啡或两杯咖啡。
Nowadays there's a lot more caffeine in coffee.
现在咖啡中的咖啡因含量很高。
So if you go to a typical cafe and you were to get their medium size, that would have close to a gram of caffeine, which is why if you are a regular caffeine consumer and you don't get that gram of caffeine in your coffee each day, you will get a headache.
因此，如果你去一家典型的咖啡馆，你要买中等大小的咖啡，那将含有接近一克的咖啡因，这就是为什么如果你是一个经常喝咖啡因的人，而你每天的咖啡中没有摄入那克咖啡因，你就会头痛。
It can cause constriction and dilation of blood vessels in ways that's complicated, but you'll get a headache.
它会以复杂的方式导致血管收缩和扩张，但你会感到头痛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people like the way they feel drinking 100-200, 300 maybe 400 milligrams of caffeine before training.
有些人喜欢在训练前喝 100-200、300 甚至 400 毫克咖啡因的感觉。
Indeed, that will lead to increased fat oxidation.
事实上，这会导致脂肪氧化增加。
It will do that because you will release more epinephrine and adrenaline.
它会这样做，因为你会释放更多的肾上腺素和肾上腺素。
So let's just place this in the context of what we said previously.
因此，让我们将其放在我们之前所说的上下文中。
Let's say you normally do Zone 2 cardio.
假设您通常进行 2 区有氧运动。
So you're going out for a moderately intense run for 30 to 60 minutes or so.
因此，您要进行 30 到 60 分钟左右的中等强度跑步。
I think the current recommendation guidelines in the States are that people engage in 30 minutes of moderate-intensity exercise five days a week, so that's 150 minutes, if their goal is to improve or maintain health of the cardiovascular system.
我认为美国目前的建议指南是人们每周五天进行 30 分钟的中等强度运动，如果他们的目标是改善或保持心血管系统的健康，那就是 150 分钟。
Eighty percent of people in the United States fail to do that or anything close to it.
百分之八十的美国人没有做到这一点或任何接近的事情。
We are way below threshold for what the government has recommended.
我们远远低于政府建议的门槛。
In this case, the government recommendations I think are pretty good.
在这种情况下，我认为政府的建议还是不错的。
One could always do better of course, but 80% of people aren't even doing that.
当然，人们总是可以做得更好，但 80% 的人甚至没有这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
However, just using the logic and the understanding of how epinephrine, adrenaline, is affecting this fat oxidation process, if you were to go out for 15 minutes and you drank caffeine before you went, yes, you'll probably oxidize more fat per unit time.
然而，只要使用逻辑和对肾上腺素、肾上腺素如何影响脂肪氧化过程的理解，如果你要出去 15 分钟并且在出去之前喝了咖啡因，是的，你可能会在单位时间内氧化更多的脂肪。
Can you compensate for the exercise you're not doing just by drinking caffeine?
你能通过喝咖啡因来补偿你没有做的运动吗？
Well, probably if you were just talking about fat loss, if that caffeine makes you fidget a lot.
好吧，也许如果你只是在谈论减肥，如果咖啡因让你坐立不安。
The amount of calories that you burn in a 30-minute run, unless the run is very intense and you're wearing a weight vest and it's up a hill, it's not that great.
你在 30 分钟跑步中燃烧的卡路里量，除非跑步非常激烈并且你穿着举重背心并且是上山，否则不会那么好。
You probably get in somewhere into the 400, 500 calories-burned area.
您可能会进入 400、500 卡路里燃烧区域。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I said earlier, and there are a lot of data now that support, that fidgeting for a day can burn anywhere from 800 to 2,500 calories a day.
但我之前说过，现在有很多数据支持，坐立不安一天可以消耗 800 到 2,500 卡路里的热量。
So you might say, well fidgeting is better than running.
所以你可能会说，坐立不安比跑步更好。
Ah!
啊!
But it doesn't trigger the activation and the positive health effects of the cardiovascular system.
但它不会触发心血管系统的激活和对健康的积极影响。
So fidgeting alone can be great, but you need exercise for other reasons.
因此，坐立不安本身就很好，但出于其他原因你需要锻炼。
Caffeine can enhance the amount of fat that you burn in any duration of exercise and it can shift the percentage of fat that you oxidize compared to glycogen unless you take that caffeine and it ramps you up so much that you're training really, really intensely.
咖啡因可以增加你在任何运动过程中燃烧的脂肪量，并且与糖原相比，它可以改变你氧化的脂肪的百分比，除非你服用咖啡因并且它可以让你的身体恢复得非常快，以至于你训练得非常非常激烈。
The bottom line is if you like caffeine and you can use it safely, ingesting somewhere between 100 and 400 milligrams of caffeine prior to exercise, somewhere between 30 to 40 minutes before exercise, can be beneficial if we're talking about fat oxidation.
最重要的是，如果您喜欢咖啡因，并且可以安全地使用它，那么在运动前（运动前 30 至 40 分钟）摄入 100 至 400 毫克咖啡因，如果我们谈论的是脂肪氧化，可能会有所帮助。
Burning more body fat.
燃烧更多体内脂肪。
So that's caffeine.
这就是咖啡因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are a number of other things that have existed over the years that are in this pathway.
多年来，这条道路上还存在许多其他事物。
Things like ephedrine, which is now illegal in most states, I think maybe in all states, because people were dropping dead from taking ephedrine because they were heating up too much.
像麻黄碱这样的东西，现在在大多数州都是非法的，我想也许在所有州，因为人们因服用麻黄碱而死亡，因为他们的体温过高。
It's interesting.
这很有趣。
It wasn't direct effects on the heart causing heart attack; it could trigger, by way of adrenergic receptors, if you'd like to know, increases in body temperature and heat.
它并不是对心脏的直接影响，而是导致心脏病发作。如果你想知道的话，它可以通过肾上腺素受体触发体温和热量的增加。
Now those drugs turned out to be dangerous because people were overheating and dying.
现在这些药物被证明是危险的，因为人们会过热而死亡。
There was also the big fen-phen craze.
还有芬芬热潮。
There was a drug that was released, fenfluramine, which actually was quite effective as an anti-obesity drug, a treatment for obesity.
有一种药物被推出，芬氟拉明，它实际上作为一种抗肥胖药物，一种治疗肥胖症的药物，非常有效。
That had to be outlawed as well.
这也必须被取缔。
FDA approval was removed because, again, people were dying because of cardiovascular effects.
FDA 的批准被取消，因为人们再次因心血管效应而死亡。
I don't know if people were overheating on it as well.
我不知道人们是否也对此过热。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what is the solution if caffeine is the, kind of the entry point for most people of using compounds to increase the rate or percentage of fat loss in exercise and even at rest, what are some of the other things that are useful and interesting?
那么，如果咖啡因是大多数人使用化合物来提高运动中甚至休息时减脂率或百分比的切入点，那么解决方案是什么？还有哪些其他有用且有趣的东西呢？
Well, in terms of tools that are actionable and have reasonable safety margins, I've talked before about something called GLP-1.
嗯，就可操作且具有合理安全裕度的工具而言，我之前已经讨论过称为 GLP-1 的东西。
This is something that can be triggered by the ingestion of yerba maté, which is a tea.
摄入马黛茶（一种茶）可能会引发这种情况。
I guess because I'm half Argentine, I grew up drinking maté.
我想因为我有一半阿根廷血统，所以我从小就喝马黛茶。
I think I was drinking maté from the time I was about three or four years old.
我想我从三四岁起就开始喝马黛茶了。
I don't suggest that for kids; I don't think kids should be ingesting caffeine.
我不建议孩子这样做；我认为孩子不应该摄入咖啡因。
But anyway, I did it and I still ingest maté.
但无论如何，我做到了，而且我仍然喝马黛茶。
Maté increases GLP-1.
Maté 增加 GLP-1。
GLP-1 is in the glucagon pathway.
GLP-1 位于胰高血糖素途径中。
So let's just quickly return to our biochemistry.
那么让我们快速回到我们的生物化学。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As you recall, fat is mobilized from body fat stores and then it's burned up.
正如您所记得的，脂肪是从体内脂肪储存中调动出来的，然后被燃烧掉。
It's oxidized in cells.
它在细胞中被氧化。
It actually needs to be converted into ATP; those fatty acids are essentially converted into ATP in the mitochondria of the cell.
它实际上需要转化为ATP；这些脂肪酸基本上在细胞线粒体中转化为 ATP。
High insulin prevents that from happening and glucagon facilitates that process.
高胰岛素可以防止这种情况发生，而胰高血糖素则可以促进这一过程。
Glucagon facilitates that process through increases in GLP-1.
胰高血糖素通过增加 GLP-1 来促进这一过程。
The short takeaway is maté increases GLP-1 and, yes, increases the percentage of fat that you'll burn.
简而言之，马黛茶会增加 GLP-1，是的，会增加您燃烧的脂肪百分比。
It increases fat burning.
它会增加脂肪燃烧。
That is especially true — it turns out from the scientific literature — if you ingest maté prior to exercise of any kind.
科学文献证明，如果您在进行任何形式的运动之前摄入马黛茶，这一点尤其正确。
So if you want to burn more fat, drinking maté before exercise is good.
所以如果你想燃烧更多的脂肪，运动前喝马黛茶是不错的。
Drinking it at rest when you're not exercising will also help shift your metabolism toward enhanced burning of fat by increasing fat oxidation.
在不运动时休息时饮用它还可以通过增加脂肪氧化来帮助您的新陈代谢转向增强脂肪燃烧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now there's a whole category of pharmaceuticals that's being developed right now that are in late-stage trials or are in use for the treatment of diabetes which capitalize on this GLP-1 pathway.
现在有一整类药物正在开发中，这些药物正处于后期试验或用于利用这种 GLP-1 途径来治疗糖尿病。
They go by various names, and there are people on the internet who are selling these things.
它们有不同的名称，互联网上也有人在销售这些东西。
They are prescription drugs, and I want to emphasize that they are prescription drugs and you obviously wouldn't want to use any of these without a prescription and a requirement.
它们是处方药，我想强调它们是处方药，如果没有处方和要求，您显然不会想使用其中任何一种。
It does seem that they are effective for the treatment of certain kinds of diabetes and lead to fairly significant weight loss and reduction in appetite.
它们似乎确实可以有效治疗某些类型的糖尿病，并导致相当显着的体重减轻和食欲下降。
So this is kind of the modern version of GLP-1 is, pharmaceuticals of GLP-1 metabolism are, drugs such as semaglutide.
这是 GLP-1 的现代版本，GLP-1 代谢药物，例如索马鲁肽。
I can never pronounce this, I can't seem to pronounce many things it seems.
我永远不会发音这个，我似乎无法发音很多东西。
Semaglutide is the way I would pronounce it.
索马鲁肽是我的发音方式。
But that's not the way you pronounce it.
但这不是你发音的方式。
But somataglide is the way that it's been described on the internet.
但 somataglide 是互联网上描述的那样。
In any case, this compound increases GLP-1.
无论如何，该化合物都会增加 GLP-1。
It's actually a GLP-1 analog in some cases, and they go by various types of trade names.
在某些情况下，它实际上是 GLP-1 类似物，并且有各种类型的商品名称。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the GLP-1 pathway is interesting.
所以 GLP-1 途径很有趣。
Most people, including myself, are not interested in taking a prescription drug to increase GLP-1.
大多数人，包括我自己，对服用处方药来增加 GLP-1 不感兴趣。
I do it through the ingestion of maté.
我通过摄入马黛茶来做到这一点。
I just get the maté leaves, pour water over it and drink it.
我只是拿马黛茶叶子，倒水然后喝掉。
What's kind of interesting that's not often discussed is that you can increase the amount of GLP-1 by...
有趣但不经常讨论的是，您可以通过以下方式增加 GLP-1 的量...
You can essentially reuse the tea.
您基本上可以重复使用茶。
The first time you drink it it's going to be very, very intense.
当你第一次喝它的时候，它会非常非常强烈。
In fact, some people find that maté almost tastes like burnt leaves.
事实上，有些人发现马黛茶的味道几乎像烧焦的叶子。
It's too intense.
太激烈了。
You don't want the water to be too hot.
你不希望水太热。
But I learned this trick from a friend; you can reuse the leaves over and over again, probably for about a day before they go bad.
但这个技巧是我从朋友那里学到的；你可以一遍又一遍地重复使用这些叶子，大约一天后它们就会变质。
In doing that, you start to extract more and more of the compounds from the maté leaf that increase GLP-1.
在此过程中，您开始从马黛茶叶中提取越来越多可增加 GLP-1 的化合物。
So it's kind of cool — you can kind of get an increased effect.
所以这很酷——你可以获得增强的效果。
So what I'll typically do is make about 16 to 30 ounces and then just sip it throughout the day.
所以我通常会喝大约 16 到 30 盎司，然后全天喝它。
I do like it before I train.
我确实喜欢在训练前这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people who don't like maté might prefer something like guayusa, which is from Ecuador.
一些不喜欢马黛茶的人可能更喜欢来自厄瓜多尔的guayusa之类的东西。
Despite the USA ending to it, it's from Ecuador.
尽管美国结束了它，但它来自厄瓜多尔。
It's a sweeter tasting tea.
这是一种味道更甜的茶。
It doesn't have any sweetener in it, but the leaf of the guayusa plant is sweeter than the maté plant.
它不含任何甜味剂，但瓜尤萨植物的叶子比马黛茶植物更甜。
I sometimes will mix the two and then make the tea with that.
有时我会把两者混合，然后用它泡茶。
There's no maté or guayusa sponsor to the podcasts.
播客没有 mate 或 guayusa 赞助商。
These are just tools to increase GLP-1 and fat oxidation.
这些只是增加 GLP-1 和脂肪氧化的工具。
Again, the semaglutide is the prescription version that's kind of the heavy artillery GLP-1 stimulant, and again should be only explored with a prescription.
再次强调，索马鲁肽是处方版本，类似于重炮 GLP-1 兴奋剂，并且只能通过处方进行探索。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So those are the compounds that really increase fat oxidation directly.
这些是真正直接增加脂肪氧化的化合物。
There are going to be a number of things that impact insulin and glucagon that are going to shift the body toward more fat burning.
有很多因素会影响胰岛素和胰高血糖素，从而使身体更多地燃烧脂肪。
We talked about a lot of these during the episode on hormones.
我们在荷尔蒙节目中讨论了很多这些内容。
We did a whole episode on hormones and metabolism.
我们做了一整集关于激素和新陈代谢的内容。
So, for instance, berberine, which comes from a plant, or metformin, are compounds that are now in kind of growing use for reducing blood glucose.
例如，来自植物的小檗碱或二甲双胍，这些化合物现在越来越多地用于降低血糖。
They are very potent at reducing blood glucose, which will reduce insulin because the job of the hormone insulin is to essentially manage glucose in the bloodstream.
它们在降低血糖方面非常有效，这会减少胰岛素，因为胰岛素激素的作用主要是管理血液中的葡萄糖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there are a huge gallery of compounds that will reduce insulin and thereby can increase fat oxidation.
因此，有大量化合物可以减少胰岛素，从而增加脂肪氧化。
That's because, as I mentioned before, fat oxidation, this conversion of fatty acids into ATP in the mitochondria, is inhibited by insulin.
这是因为，正如我之前提到的，脂肪氧化（脂肪酸在线粒体中转化为 ATP）受到胰岛素的抑制。
So if you keep insulin low, you're going to increase that process.
因此，如果你保持较低的胰岛素水平，你就会增加这个过程。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which brings us full circle back to the issue of diet and nutrition.
这又让我们回到饮食和营养问题。
There is really solid evidence from the Gardener lab at Stanford, and from other labs, showing that when you look at different diets, you look at low-fat diets, high-fat diets, keto diets, intermittent fasting, provided people stick to their particular diet, it doesn't really matter which diet you follow, you can still get a caloric deficit and you get weight loss.
斯坦福大学加德纳实验室和其他实验室确实有确凿的证据表明，当你观察不同的饮食时，你会看到低脂饮食、高脂饮食、生酮饮食、间歇性禁食，只要人们坚持他们的特定饮食，无论你遵循哪种饮食，你仍然可以得到热量不足，并且体重减轻。
Adherence, however, is always an issue.
然而，坚持始终是一个问题。
So what I always say is that you want to use the eating plan that is obviously beneficial to your health, but the one that allows you to adhere to whatever it is that the particular nutrition protocol is.
所以我总是说，你想要使用的饮食计划显然对你的健康有益，但又能让你坚持任何特定的营养方案。
If you can't stick with something, then it's not very worthwhile.
如果你不能坚持做一件事，那么它就不值得了。
But from the purely scientific standpoint, there's also an advantage to keeping insulin low.
但从纯粹的科学角度来看，保持低胰岛素水平也有好处。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, that doesn't necessarily mean you go to zero carbohydrate.
现在，这并不一定意味着您的碳水化合物摄入量为零。
I've talked before about my preferred way of eating is to go low or no carbohydrate throughout the day for alertness to get that adrenaline release and the focus that goes with it, et cetera, the ability and to think and move and do all the things I need to do during the day, and then I eat carbohydrates at night because it facilitates the transition to sleep.
我之前说过我喜欢的饮食方式是全天低碳水化合物或不吃碳水化合物，以提高警觉性，从而释放肾上腺素和随之而来的注意力，等等，思考、移动和做我白天需要做的所有事情的能力，然后我在晚上吃碳水化合物，因为它有助于过渡到睡眠。
That's what works for me.
这对我有用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But when insulin is low, you do place your system in a position to oxidize more fat.
但当胰岛素水平较低时，您的系统确实会氧化更多的脂肪。
And so that's why I think a lot of people do see benefit from lower carbohydrate or moderate carbohydrate diets because when insulin is low, you are in a position to oxidize more fat, both from exercise and at rest.
这就是为什么我认为很多人确实从低碳水化合物或适量碳水化合物饮食中受益，因为当胰岛素水平较低时，你可以通过运动和休息来氧化更多的脂肪。
I should mention, because I often mention and it's appropriate to mention, that if you're interested in looking at the effects of caffeine, of maté, guayusa, things of that sort, GLP-1, you want to learn more about those, you can go to this wonderful website which is free: examine.com.
我应该提到，因为我经常提到而且值得一提的是，如果您有兴趣了解咖啡因、马黛茶、番石榴、GLP-1 之类的效果，您想了解更多有关这些的信息，您可以访问这个精彩的免费网站：exspect.com。
You can put in yerba maté.
你可以放入马黛茶。
It will describe the three studies that show increased fat oxidation both during exercise and at rest and as a consequence, not surprisingly, an increase in metabolic rate.
它将描述三项研究，这些研究表明在运动和休息时脂肪氧化都会增加，因此毫不奇怪地会增加代谢率。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One thing that's interesting about maté is it causes a slight decrease in heart rate, for reasons that still escape me.
马黛茶有趣的一件事是它会导致心率略有下降，但我仍然不知道原因。
There's a single study showing that heart rate is slightly reduced, which is kind of nice because when I drink too much caffeine, my heart rate goes up.
有一项研究表明心率略有降低，这很好，因为当我喝太多咖啡因时，我的心率会上升。
Maybe that would increase my fidgeting and my fat burning.
也许这会增加我的烦躁和脂肪燃烧。
But I don't like the feeling of having my basal heart rate being up too high.
但我不喜欢基础心率太高的感觉。
I like my heart rate elevated during exercise, but not when I'm just kind of resting or working and throughout the day.
我喜欢运动时心率升高，但不喜欢全天休息或工作时心率升高。
For some reason that I don't understand, there's an effect of maté of increasing fat oxidation but reducing heart rate just slightly.
由于某种我不明白的原因，马黛茶具有增加脂肪氧化但略微降低心率的作用。
So that's interesting, and it probably lends itself to and explains the subjective experience that I've had that maté is kind of a nice, even, mellow stimulant.
这很有趣，它可能适合并解释了我的主观体验，即马黛茶是一种很好的、均匀的、醇厚的兴奋剂。
It's not this really supercharged stimulant like caffeine from coffee or other sources.
它并不是像咖啡或其他来源的咖啡因那样真正的强力兴奋剂。
Although if you drink too much maté, it will also make you jittery.
虽然喝太多马黛茶也会让你紧张不安。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's one more compound that I think we should discuss in terms of increasing fat loss.
我认为我们应该在增加脂肪减少方面讨论另一种化合物。
And that's carnitine or acetyl-L carnitine.
这就是肉碱或乙酰左旋肉碱。
They lie in the same pathway.
他们位于同一条道路上。
We can return to our basic knowledge now of fat mobilization and oxidation.
现在我们可以回到脂肪动员和氧化的基础知识上来。
After fat is mobilized and makes it into cells and needs to be oxidized, so literally the burning of fat and conversion of it into energy, that is accomplished and is facilitated by the presence of glucagon being elevated; GLP increases that process; and insulin being low.
当脂肪被动员并进入细胞并需要被氧化后，实际上是脂肪的燃烧并将其转化为能量，这是通过胰高血糖素的升高来实现和促进的； GLP 增加了该流程；和胰岛素低。
We talked about some ways to manage insulin both in this episode and in previous episode.
我们在本集和上一集中讨论了一些管理胰岛素的方法。
L-carnitine, and acetyl-L carnitine, in particular, facilitates fat oxidation.
尤其是左旋肉碱和乙酰基左旋肉碱，可以促进脂肪氧化。
It helps convert fatty acids into ATP.
它有助于将脂肪酸转化为 ATP。
Indeed, supplementing L-carnitine can increase fat loss.
事实上，补充左旋肉碱可以增加脂肪的减少。
That's been shown.
这已经被证明了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
At what dosages?
什么剂量？
Well, people ingest anywhere from 500 milligrams to two grams per day in divided doses, typically.
嗯，人们通常每天分次摄入 500 毫克到 2 克。
Some people who are really extreme are taking injectable L-carnitine.
有些极端的人正在注射左旋肉碱。
I've certainly not tried that.
我当然没有尝试过。
I confess I have used it in pill form from time to time, but in part because of the fat oxidation effects, but also because of the other effects that it tends to have.
我承认我时不时地以药丸形式使用它，但部分是因为脂肪氧化作用，但也因为它往往具有其他作用。
So in exploring the effects that acetyl-L carnitine has, it has a huge variety of effects on cellular metabolism.
因此，在探索乙酰左旋肉碱的作用时，发现它对细胞代谢有多种影响。
It can reduce ammonia in the blood, that is actually quite strong effect.
它可以减少血液中的氨，这其实是相当强的作用。
It can reduce things like C-reactive protein, which you want C-reactive protein levels to be managed, you do not want them too high.
它可以减少 C 反应蛋白等物质，您希望控制 C 反应蛋白水平，但不希望它们太高。
Can slightly reduce blood glucose.
可轻度降低血糖。
It can slightly increase HDLC, the good form of the blood lipid, and slightly reduce overall cholesterol.
它可以略微增加高密度脂蛋白胆固醇（血脂的良好形式），并略微降低总体胆固醇。
As I mentioned, it can slightly modify the pathway involving glucagon such that you get a considerable effect, not a huge effect, on fat oxidation.
正如我所提到的，它可以稍微改变涉及胰高血糖素的途径，从而对脂肪氧化产生相当大的影响，而不是巨大的影响。
So it can improve fat oxidation rates.
因此它可以提高脂肪氧化率。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It has a number of other effects, some of which I talked about during the month on hormones and that sort of thing.
它还有许多其他影响，其中一些我在这个月中谈到了关于激素之类的影响。
It has strong effects on rates of pregnancy and sperm quality.
它对怀孕率和精子质量有很大影响。
So clearly carnitine is doing lots of different things in lots of different cells.
很明显，肉碱在许多不同的细胞中发挥着许多不同的作用。
It's impacting sperm motility; there a large number of studies supporting that.
它会影响精子的活力；有大量研究支持这一点。
Slight reductions in blood pressure, and has these interesting effects on reducing fatigue during exercise, reducing inflammatory markers like interleukin 6.
血压略有降低，并且对减少运动期间的疲劳、减少白细胞介素 6 等炎症标志物具有这些有趣的作用。
So it has a number of effects that on the whole are, quote, unquote, "positive" or at least in the direction of things that you may want.
因此，它有很多影响，总的来说，无论引用还是不引用，都是“积极的”，或者至少朝着你可能想要的方向发展。
I should emphasize may; you certainly don't need acetyl-L carnitine in order to lose fat.
我应该强调可能；你当然不需要乙酰左旋肉碱来减肥。
But now that you understand the cellular process by which fat is mobilized and oxidized, it should make sense that if L-carnitine is important for converting fatty acids into energy, then supplementing L-carnitine makes sense.
但既然您了解了脂肪动员和氧化的细胞过程，那么如果左旋肉碱对于将脂肪酸转化为能量很重要，那么补充左旋肉碱就有意义了。
Acetyl-L carnitine is the type of L-carnitine, or the form of L-carnitine I should say, that is transported and utilized most easily by the body.
乙酰左旋肉碱是左旋肉碱的一种，或者说是左旋肉碱的形式，最容易被身体运输和利用。
So that's why sometimes we distinguish between L-carnitine and acetyl-L carnitine.
这就是为什么有时我们区分左旋肉碱和乙酰左旋肉碱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So once again, we've covered an enormous amount of material.
我们再次涵盖了大量的材料。
We've talked about the science of fat loss, and in particular we've explored this topic from the perspective of the nervous system; how neurons and in particular the release of things like adrenaline, epinephrine, can facilitate fat mobilization and oxidation.
我们讨论了减脂的科学原理，特别是从神经系统的角度探讨了这个话题；神经元，特别是肾上腺素、肾上腺素等物质的释放，如何促进脂肪动员和氧化。
We talked about NEAT fidgeting, this non-exercise-type movement that can greatly increase caloric burn, and why that is.
我们讨论了 NEAT 坐立不安，这种非运动型运动可以大大增加热量燃烧，以及原因。
We talked about shiver, another form of non-exercise movement that can really increase both caloric expenditure due to the shiver, due to the movement, as well as increase thermogenesis, the heating up of the body through things like brown fat and even the conversion of white fat to brown fat, which is a good thing if you want to oxidize fat.
我们讨论了颤抖，这是另一种非运动形式的运动，它确实可以增加因颤抖而产生的热量消耗，也可以增加产热作用，通过棕色脂肪等物质加热身体，甚至将白色脂肪转化为棕色脂肪，如果你想氧化脂肪，这是一件好事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We talked about cold as a particular stimulus to induce shiver and how to use getting into and out of cold as a way to stimulate shiver and avoid cold adaptation so that you continue to oxidize and burn fat if that's your goal.
我们讨论了寒冷是引起颤抖的特殊刺激，以及如何利用进入和退出寒冷作为刺激颤抖和避免寒冷适应的方法，以便您继续氧化和燃烧脂肪（如果这是您的目标）。
If you want to check out the protocols for that, they're at thecoldplunge.com.
如果您想查看相关协议，请访问 thecoldplunge.com。
In weeks to come, we're going to be adding more protocols to that website, not just for fat loss but for things like resilience, reducing inflammation, et cetera.
在接下来的几周内，我们将在该网站上添加更多协议，不仅仅是为了减肥，还为了恢复能力、减少炎症等。
So be sure to check those out.
所以一定要检查一下。
Again, those are totally cost free.
再说一遍，这些都是完全免费的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Talked about exercise, how rather than thinking about cardiovascular or weight training exercise, that we should perhaps look through the lens of this adrenaline system and how it interacts with fat stores, and think about low, medium, or high-intensity exercise.
谈到运动，我们不应该考虑心血管或重量训练运动，而应该通过肾上腺素系统的镜头以及它如何与脂肪储存相互作用，并考虑低、中或高强度运动。
Whether or not we show up to that fasted or not.
无论我们是否禁食。
Turns out showing up to that fasted can be useful if you start with high-intensity movements and then move into lower-intensity-type exercise.
事实证明，如果您从高强度运动开始，然后再进行低强度运动，那么禁食可能会很有用。
If you're going to go long duration, it probably doesn't matter, unless you're exercising longer than 90 minutes, whether or not you eat or not.
如果您打算长时间锻炼，则可能并不重要，除非您锻炼的时间超过 90 分钟，无论是否进食。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We talked about caffeine as a stimulant and a stimulus for epinephrine and adrenaline release as a way to access more fat metabolism.
我们讨论了咖啡因作为兴奋剂和刺激肾上腺素和肾上腺素释放的作用，作为促进脂肪代谢的一种方式。
We talked about compounds that come from things like yerba maté and guayusa tea, this GLP-1 pathway that can trigger increased fat oxidation, so much so that the pharmaceutical companies are now developing compounds specifically to increase GLP-1 for treatment of diabetes and obesity.
我们讨论了来自马黛茶和番石榴茶等物质的化合物，这种 GLP-1 途径可以引发脂肪氧化增加，以至于制药公司现在正在开发专门增加 GLP-1 的化合物，用于治疗糖尿病和肥胖症。
But you can leverage the GLP-1 pathway through the ingestion of things like maté or guayusa if that's of interest to you.
但如果您感兴趣，您可以通过摄入马黛茶或番石榴等物质来利用 GLP-1 途径。
Then we talked about L-carnitine and how L-carnitine itself is critical for the fat oxidation within individual cells.
然后我们讨论了左旋肉碱以及左旋肉碱本身对于单个细胞内的脂肪氧化至关重要。
The conversion of fatty acids to energy and why having your insulin low and things like L-carnitine and glucagon levels high, or sufficient at least, can facilitate the burning of fat, fat oxidation.
脂肪酸转化为能量，以及为什么胰岛素水平较低，而左旋肉碱和胰高血糖素水平较高或至少足够，可以促进脂肪燃烧和脂肪氧化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we covered a lot of material.
所以我们涵盖了很多材料。
That's a lot of protocols, I realize, and the little list I just gave right there didn't even begin to get into all the details and corners that we discussed.
我意识到，协议有很多，而我刚刚给出的小清单甚至没有开始涉及我们讨论的所有细节和角落。
I hope you found this conversation interesting, both for sake of understanding fat loss and how to lose fat more quickly and to lose more of it if that's your goal, as well as simply to understand the biology of fat metabolism from a different perspective, from the perspective of the nervous system.
我希望您觉得这次对话很有趣，既是为了了解减脂以及如何更快地减掉脂肪，并减掉更多脂肪（如果这是您的目标），也是为了从不同的角度（从神经系统的角度）了解脂肪代谢的生物学。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're enjoying this podcast and you're benefiting from the information that you're learning, please subscribe on YouTube.
如果您喜欢这个播客并且您从所学的信息中受益，请在 YouTube 上订阅。
That really helps us a lot.
这确实对我们有很大帮助。
There's also a notifications button that you can hit that will notify you anytime we release new content.
还有一个您可以点击的通知按钮，一旦我们发布新内容，它就会通知您。
We release new episodes every Monday, but sometimes we release additional material in between.
我们每周一都会发布新剧集，但有时我们会在中间发布额外的材料。
So please do subscribe on YouTube.
所以请务必在 YouTube 上订阅。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As well, if you could subscribe on Apple and/or Spotify, that's terrific and really helps us.
另外，如果您可以在 Apple 和/或 Spotify 上订阅，那就太好了，对我们确实有帮助。
At Apple, you can give us a five-star review, if you think we deserve a five-star review, as well as you have the opportunity to give us feedback at Apple.
在Apple，如果您认为我们值得五星级评价，您可以给我们五星级评价，并且您有机会在Apple向我们提供反馈。
The comment section on YouTube is the place to give us feedback; whether or not you like an episode, whether or not you don't like an episode, aspects that you particularly liked, suggestions for future content.
YouTube 上的评论部分是向我们提供反馈的地方；您是否喜欢某一集，无论您是否不喜欢某一集，您特别喜欢的方面，对未来内容的建议。
We do read, I do read through all the comments.
我们确实阅读了，我确实阅读了所有评论。
It takes me some time.
我需要一些时间。
I sometimes fall a little bit behind depending on other duties.
有时我会因为其他职责而落后一些。
But I read all the comments and I do take them into account when developing this material and the structure of the material.
但我阅读了所有评论，并且在开发此材料和材料结构时确实考虑了它们。
So please do provide feedback in the comment section.
所以请务必在评论部分提供反馈。
We really appreciate it.
我们真的很感激。
Another great way to support us is to check out our sponsors that we mentioned at the beginning of the podcast.
支持我们的另一个好方法是查看我们在播客开头提到的赞助商。
And last but not least, I want to thank you for your time and attention today, and thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，我要感谢您今天的时间和关注，并感谢您对科学的兴趣。
PART 3 OF 3 ENDS
第 3 部分（共 3 部分）结束