How to Increase Your Speed, Mobility & Longevity with Plyometrics & Sprinting | Stuart McMillan
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Stuart McMillan.
今天我的客人是斯图尔特·麦克米伦。
Stu McMillan is one of the world's most sought-after coaches for teaching people how to get stronger, run faster, be more powerful, and healthier.
斯图·麦克米伦 (Stu McMillan) 是世界上最受欢迎的教练之一，他教导人们如何变得更强、跑得更快、更有力量和更健康。
Today, we talk about how to do that using what, for most people, might seem like a rather unconventional set of methods, but for any serious track athlete will be very familiar, because they do it almost every day, and that's skipping and striding.
今天，我们讨论如何做到这一点，对于大多数人来说，这似乎是一套相当非常规的方法，但对于任何认真的田径运动员来说都会非常熟悉，因为他们几乎每天都会这样做，那就是跳跃和跨步。
You heard right.
你没听错。
As you'll soon learn, skipping, what most of us think of as a kid's activity, is actually one of the best plyometric activities that we can all do at any age to build more power, speed, coordination, and to improve our muscle, fascial, and nervous system function.
您很快就会了解到，跳绳（我们大多数人认为是儿童活动）实际上是最好的增强式活动之一，我们在任何年龄段都可以进行这种活动，以增强力量、速度、协调性，并改善我们的肌肉、筋膜和神经系统功能。
Stu McMillan has coached over 70 Olympians across nine Olympic Games, and he has coached the players and coaches of every major professional sport.
斯图·麦克米伦 (Stu McMillan) 曾在九届奥运会上执教过 70 多名奥运选手，并且执教过每项主要职业运动项目的运动员和教练。
He explains how skipping and something called striding are zero-cost activities that we all can and should include in our weekly fitness routine.
他解释说，跳绳和跨步运动是零成本的活动，我们都可以而且应该将其纳入每周的健身计划中。
They not only will have you moving better and having better posture in all your activities, but they also take minimal time, and they can help protect you against injuries and improve your longevity.
它们不仅能让您在所有活动中移动得更好、保持更好的姿势，而且只需要最少的时间，并且可以帮助保护您免受伤害并延长您的寿命。
We also talk about the best strides for running at any speed.
我们还讨论了以任何速度跑步的最佳步幅。
So if you're into jogging or sprinting, we talk about all the best ways to do that.
因此，如果您喜欢慢跑或短跑，我们会讨论所有最佳方法。
We talk about the sport of track, which both Stu and I happen to love, and why certain groups of people excel in different sports due to genetic and environmental reasons.
我们谈论了斯图和我都喜欢的田径运动，以及为什么某些人群由于遗传和环境原因而在不同的运动中表现出色。
We also have a very direct and open conversation about the use of performance-enhancing tools in the athletic and wellness worlds.
我们还就在运动和健康领域使用增强表现的工具进行了非常直接和开放的对话。
This is a really special episode because if you like or if you don't like things like running, swimming, cycling, or other activities such as weight training or yoga, there's going to be a lot to take away from it that you can apply.
这是一个非常特别的节目，因为如果你喜欢或不喜欢跑步、游泳、骑自行车或其他活动，如重量训练或瑜伽，你会从中学到很多东西，你可以应用。
Stu McMillan is a true savant of coaching how best to move and how to improve your health.
斯图·麦克米兰 (Stu McMillan) 是一位真正的专家，擅长指导如何最好地移动以及如何改善您的健康。
It was an honor and privilege to host him and to learn from him.
能够接待他并向他学习是一种荣幸。
I'm sure you'll agree.
我相信你会同意的。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。
In keeping with that theme, this episode does include sponsors.
为了与这个主题保持一致，这一集确实有赞助商。
And now for my discussion with Stu McMillan.
现在我与斯图·麦克米伦进行讨论。
Stu McMillan, welcome.
斯图·麦克米伦，欢迎。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Great to be here.
很高兴来到这里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We go back a little ways.
我们往回走一点路。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you're the guy that they call in to make athletes or pretty much anybody faster, stronger, healthier, and more powerful, and who wouldn't want that-
他们召唤你来让运动员或几乎任何人变得更快、更强、更健康、更有力量，谁不希望这样——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Exactly
正是如此
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
athletes or otherwise.
运动员或其他。
Let's start by talking about running.
我们先从跑步开始吧。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think for a lot of people, they hear running and they're like, "Oh, no. Running hurts.
我想对于很多人来说，他们听到跑步的时候就会想，“哦，不。跑步很痛。
Running's painful." But I think most people when they think about running, they think about jogging.
跑步很痛苦。”但我认为大多数人一想到跑步，就会想到慢跑。
They think about running a distance longer than a mile.
他们考虑跑一英里以上的距离。
But even for some people, running a mile is a painful thought, let alone a practice.
但即使对某些人来说，跑一英里也是一个痛苦的想法，更不用说实践了。
How should we think about running and sprinting in particular?
我们应该如何看待跑步和短跑？
Because when we grow up, we learn to crawl-
因为长大后我们学会爬——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
walk, run.
走，跑。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And kids naturally want to run fast at some point, fast for them.
孩子们自然会在某个时候想要跑得快，对他们来说跑得快。
What is it about running that for you is such an enchanting thing?
跑步对于你来说是一件多么令人着迷的事情呢？
Why do you think that every four years or so, depending on when they're scheduling the Olympics, everyone in this country gets fascinated with who's fastest?
你认为为什么每隔四年左右，取决于他们安排奥运会的时间，这个国家的每个人都会对谁跑得最快感到着迷？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Who's fastest in the world?
世界上谁最快？
And then they tend to put track and field aside for a bit, but people can jump, they can swim, they can do all these things.
然后他们倾向于把田径放在一边，但人们可以跳跃，他们可以游泳，他们可以做所有这些事情。
But running is so fundamental to being human.
但跑步对于人类来说是如此的基础。
What are your thoughts on running generally?
您对跑步总体有何看法？
And let's break it up into distances.
让我们把它分解成距离。
Why do you love seeing people run fast?
为什么你喜欢看到人们跑得快？
Why have you devoted yourself in part to helping people run faster and faster?
为什么你要部分投入帮助人们跑得越来越快？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, there's a lot in that.
是的，其中有很多内容。
First, running fast for me is the ultimate human activity.
首先，对我来说，快跑是人类的终极活动。
The fastest human on the planet is the fastest human on the planet, where potentially maybe the best football player is probably not the best football player.
地球上跑得最快的人就是地球上跑得最快的人，而最好的足球运动员可能不是最好的足球运动员。
The best soccer player is probably not the best soccer player.
最好的足球运动员可能不是最好的足球运动员。
There might be someone down in Argentina who could be a better NFL linebacker than choose your All-Pro linebacker right now, where sprinting, everybody sprints, as you said.
在阿根廷，可能有人会成为比你现在选择全职业线卫更好的 NFL 线卫，正如你所说，冲刺，每个人都在冲刺。
We all run when we're kids, and we figure out, or our teachers figure out, or our coaches figure out, "Well, Andrew, you're a sprinter, so you're going to sprint.
当我们还是孩子的时候，我们都跑步，我们发现，或者我们的老师发现，或者我们的教练发现，“好吧，安德鲁，你是一名短跑运动员，所以你要短跑。
Stu, you're a middle distance, so you go and do that." And over the course of time, we kind of figure out whether we're good or not.
斯图，你是中距离选手，所以你就去做吧。”随着时间的推移，我们会逐渐弄清楚自己是否优秀。
And the sprinters, the truly elite sprinters, end up being the truly elite sprinters when they are 20, 25, 30 years old.
而短跑运动员，真正的精英短跑运动员，最终会在20、25、30岁时成为真正的精英短跑运动员。
That's what you do.
这就是你要做的。
You don't move into something else if you are a super elite sprinter.
如果你是一名超级精英短跑运动员，你就不会进入其他领域。
So I think that's part of it is that for me.
所以我认为这对我来说是一部分。
It is really truly the tip of the spear in human performance.
这确实是人类表演中的矛尖。
The fastest person on the planet is the fastest person on the planet.
地球上跑得最快的人就是地球上跑得最快的人。
Usain Bolt is the world record holder, and he is the fastest person who's ever ran.
尤塞恩·博尔特是世界纪录保持者，也是有史以来跑得最快的人。
There's probably not somebody else who in the Congo somewhere, in Jamaica, that could've been faster than Usain, because they would've displayed themselves at some point.
在刚果的某个地方，在牙买加，可能没有其他人能比尤塞恩更快，因为他们会在某个时刻展示自己。
So for me, that is it.
所以对我来说，就是这样。
And I started coaching kind of 1984.
我从 1984 年开始当教练。
I've been coaching for a long, long time.
我已经当教练很长时间了。
And I started coaching professional in 1992, and I've coached many sports, many activities, many tasks, and I enjoy most of them.
我从 1992 年开始担任专业教练，我教练过很多运动、很多活动、很多任务，而且我很喜欢其中的大部分。
But for me, it is that pinnacle, that true tip of the spear, that interests me the most, and that you only get from sprinting.
但对我来说，最让我感兴趣的是那个巅峰，那个真正的矛尖，而你只能从冲刺中获得。
If you're an NFL football player, most likely you're playing every game at about 80% of your best.
如果您是一名 NFL 橄榄球运动员，您很可能每场比赛都会发挥出 80% 左右的最佳状态。
If you were 80% of your best and you got onto the 100-meter start line Forget about it.
如果你已经达到了 80% 的最佳水平并进入了 100 米起跑线，那就算了。
If you're less than 99.9% of your best, forget about it.
如果你的表现没有达到 99.9%，那就别想了。
That's why I truly love the sprinting events so much.
这就是为什么我如此热爱短跑项目。
And zoomed out from that a little bit, I started off as a strength and conditioning coach.
稍微缩小一点，我开始担任体能教练。
So for me, it was more about the power, the strength, and the speed.
所以对我来说，更多的是力量、力量和速度。
It was all of that.
这就是全部。
And I coached bobsled for a long time, and I really, really enjoyed bobsled because these guys are massive, they're really strong, and they're really fast.
我教练雪橇很长一段时间，我真的非常喜欢雪橇，因为这些家伙很大，他们非常强壮，而且速度非常快。
So that, for me, was really appealing, and that fed my obsession about this peak human performance for a long time, until I had the opportunity to actually go and work with super elite sprinters.
所以，对我来说，这真的很有吸引力，并且在很长一段时间内让我对这种人类巅峰表现的痴迷，直到我有机会真正去和超级精英短跑运动员一起工作。
And now I can't do anything other than that.
而现在我除此之外什么也做不了。
I really can't.
我实在做不到。
It's fascinating to me.
这对我来说很有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How do we compare the fastest person in the 100 meters versus the 200 versus the 400?
我们如何比较 100 米、200 米和 400 米跑得最快的人？
So for you, is it coaching the 100 that's the most exciting, or the 200, or the 400?
那么对你来说，是指导 100 米最令人兴奋，还是 200 米，还是 400 米？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, it's a good question.
是的，这是一个好问题。
I actually prefer coaching the 200 for a couple of reasons.
事实上，出于几个原因，我更喜欢指导 200 米比赛。
There's a little bit of tactics in the 200, or there's more tactics than there are in the 100.
200 米中有一点战术，或者说比 100 米有更多的战术。
In the 100, the fastest person is going to win.
在 100 场比赛中，速度最快的人将获胜。
In the 200, depending on how you tactically set up your race, because it's not an all-out sprint.
在 200 米比赛中，这取决于你如何战术安排比赛，因为这不是全力冲刺。
You can't run as fast as you can for 20 seconds, whereas 100 meters, you can run as fast as you can for 10 to 11 seconds.
你不可能跑20秒，而100米，你可以跑10到11秒。
It's all out right from the start.
一切从一开始就已经结束了。
With the 200, you have to kind of either push out really, really hard and then smooth it out and then try to finish strong, or you start off a little bit easier and you finish strong, or you just go out all out and you're just going to fade and see if you can stay ahead.
对于200，你必须非常非常努力地推进，然后平滑它，然后尝试坚强地完成，或者你开始更容易一点，然后你坚强地完成，或者你只是全力以赴，然后你就会逐渐消失，看看你是否可以保持领先。
So that tactical element for that race for me is really interesting.
所以那场比赛的战术元素对我来说真的很有趣。
So then you're combining the capacity, the actual ability to run fast and be super incredibly fast, high velocities, with the tactical component.
因此，你需要将能力、快速奔跑和超快、高速度的实际能力与战术部分结合起来。
So it's then you're thinking about, okay, if my athlete's in lane six, who's in lane seven?
那么你就会想，好吧，如果我的运动员在第六泳道，那么谁在第七泳道？
Who's in lane eight?
谁在八号车道？
How are we going to determine how we run based upon what the other racers are going to do?
我们如何根据其他赛车手的行为来确定我们的跑步方式？
So for me, it's the 200.
所以对我来说，是200。
That's not to say I don't love the 100.
这并不是说我不喜欢100。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
The 100 for me is the one that if I'm just a fan, that's the one that I'm paying attention to the most.
对我来说，如果我只是一个粉丝，那么这100就是我最关注的一个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And every four years, people become obsessed with it.
每四年，人们就会对此着迷。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That person is generally the winner, is characterized as the fastest person on the planet.
这个人通常是胜利者，被认为是地球上跑得最快的人。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because like you said, it's all out.
因为就像你说的，一切都结束了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And at the same time, I think most people can't really conceive in a concrete way what sprinting 100 meters really is about.
与此同时，我认为大多数人无法真正具体地理解短跑 100 米到底意味着什么。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the world record is held by-
而世界纪录的保持者是——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Usain Bolt.
尤塞恩·博尔特。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the record is somewhere-
记录在某处——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
9.58 seconds.
9.58秒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And yesterday you told me that means it's about 40 strides to cover 100 meters.
昨天你告诉我这意味着大约需要 40 步才能走 100 米。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
For Usain, it was 40 steps.
对于尤塞恩来说，是 40 步。
Correct.
正确的。
Yeah.
是的。
For many other elite sprinters, it's somewhere between 40 and 45 in the men, and somewhere between sort of 47 and 52 for the women.
对于许多其他精英短跑运动员来说，男子的分数在 40 到 45 之间，女子的分数在 47 到 52 之间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Our Place.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商“我们的地方”。
Our Place makes my favorite pots, pans, and other cookware.
我们的地方生产我最喜欢的锅、平底锅和其他炊具。
Surprisingly toxic compounds such as PFAS or "forever chemicals" are still found in 80% of non-stick pans, as well as utensils, appliances, and countless other kitchen products.
令人惊讶的是，80% 的不粘锅以及器皿、电器和无数其他厨房产品中仍然含有 PFAS 或“永远的化学物质”等有毒化合物。
As I've discussed on this podcast, these PFAS or forever chemicals like Teflon, have been linked to major health issues such as hormone disruption, gut microbiome disruption, fertility issues, and many other health concerns.
正如我在本播客中讨论的那样，这些 PFAS 或永久性化学物质（如聚四氟乙烯）与激素紊乱、肠道微生物组破坏、生育问题和许多其他健康问题等重大健康问题有关。
So it's really important to avoid them.
因此，避免它们非常重要。
This is why I'm a huge fan of Our Place.
这就是为什么我是《我们的地方》的超级粉丝。
Our Place products are made with the highest quality materials and are all PFAS and toxin-free.
我们的 Place 产品采用最优质的材料制成，不含 PFAS 和毒素。
I particularly love their Titanium Always Pan Pro.
我特别喜欢他们的 Titanium Always Pan Pro。
It's the first non-stick pan made with zero chemicals and zero coating.
这是第一个采用零化学品和零涂层制成的不粘锅。
Instead, it's pure titanium.
相反，它是纯钛。
This means it has no harmful forever chemicals and that it doesn't degrade or lose its non-stick effect over time.
这意味着它不含永久有害的化学物质，并且不会随着时间的推移而降解或失去不粘效果。
It's also beautiful to look at.
看起来也很漂亮。
I cook eggs in my Titanium Always Pan Pro almost every morning.
我几乎每天早上都会用 Titanium Always Pan Pro 煮鸡蛋。
The design allows for the eggs to cook perfectly and without sticking to the pan.
该设计使鸡蛋能够完美烹饪并且不会粘在锅上。
I also cook burgers and steaks in it, and it puts a really nice sear on the meat.
我还用它来做汉堡和牛排，它给肉带来了非常好的烤焦效果。
But again, nothing sticks to it, so it's really easy to clean and even dishwasher safe.
但同样，没有任何东西粘在上面，所以它非常容易清洁，甚至可以用洗碗机清洗。
I love it, and I use it constantly.
我喜欢它，并且经常使用它。
Our Place now has a full line of Titanium Pro cookware that uses this first-of-its-kind titanium non-stick technology.
我们的地方现在拥有全系列 Titanium Pro 炊具，采用这种首创的钛不粘技术。
So if you're looking for non-toxic, long-lasting pots and pans, go to fromourplace.com/huberman and use the code Huberman for 10% off your order.
因此，如果您正在寻找无毒、耐用的锅碗瓢盆，请访问 fromourplace.com/huberman 并使用代码 Huberman 享受订单 10% 的折扣。
With a 100-day risk-free trial, free shipping, and free returns, you can experience this fantastic cookware with zero risk.
通过 100 天无风险试用、免费送货和免费退货，您可以零风险体验这款出色的炊具。
Again, that's fromourplace.com/huberman to get 10% off.
再次强调，来自ourplace.com/huberman 可以享受 10% 的折扣。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Wealthfront.
今天的节目也是由 Wealthfront 为我们带来的。
I've been using Wealthfront for my savings and my investing for nearly a decade, and I absolutely love it.
近十年来，我一直使用 Wealthfront 进行储蓄和投资，我非常喜欢它。
At the start of every year, I set new goals, and one of my goals for 2025 is to focus on saving money.
每年年初，我都会设定新的目标，2025 年的目标之一就是专注于省钱。
Since I have Wealthfront, I'll keep that savings in my Wealthfront cash account, where I'm able to earn 4% annual percentage yield on my deposits, and you can as well.
由于我拥有 Wealthfront，我会将这笔储蓄保留在我的 Wealthfront 现金账户中，在那里我可以通过存款赚取 4% 的年收益率，您也可以。
With Wealthfront, you can earn 4% APY on your cash from partner banks until you're ready to either spend that money or invest it.
通过 Wealthfront，您可以从合作银行获得 4% 的现金年化收益，直到您准备好花掉这些钱或进行投资。
With Wealthfront, you also get free instant withdrawals to eligible accounts every day, even on weekends and holidays.
通过Wealthfront，您还可以每天免费即时提款到符合条件的账户，即使在周末和节假日也是如此。
The 4% APY is not a promotional rate, and there's no limit to what you can deposit and earn.
4% 年利率并非促销利率，您可以存款和赚取的金额没有限制。
And you can even get protection for up to $8 million through FDIC insurance provided through Wealthfront's partner banks.
您甚至可以通过 Wealthfront 合作银行提供的 FDIC 保险获得高达 800 万美元的保护。
Wealthfront gives you free instant withdrawals, where it takes just minutes to transfer your money to eligible external accounts.
Wealthfront 为您提供免费即时提款，只需几分钟即可将您的资金转入符合条件的外部账户。
It also takes just minutes to transfer your cash from the cash account to any of Wealthfront's automated investment accounts when you're ready to invest.
当您准备好投资时，只需几分钟即可将现金从现金账户转移到 Wealthfront 的任何自动投资账户。
There are already a million people using Wealthfront to save more, earn more, and build long-term wealth.
已有一百万人使用 Wealthfront 来储蓄更多、赚取更多并建立长期财富。
Earn 4% APY on your cash today.
今天就用现金赚取 4% 年化收益。
If you'd like to try Wealthfront, go to wealthfront.com/huberman to receive a free $50 bonus with a $500 deposit into your first cash account.
如果您想尝试Wealthfront，请访问wealthfront.com/huberman，在您的第一个现金账户中存入500美元即可获得免费的50美元奖金。
That's wealthfront.com/huberman to get started now.
现在就开始吧：www.realityfront.com/huberman。
This has been a paid testimonial of Wealthfront.
这是 Wealthfront 的付费推荐。
Wealthfront brokerage isn't a bank.
Wealthfront 经纪公司不是银行。
The APY is subject to change.
APY 可能会发生变化。
For more information, see the episode description.
有关更多信息，请参阅剧集描述。
Yesterday, we were out at the track at Malibu High School.
昨天，我们在马里布高中的跑道上。
You were teaching my producer Rob and I some bounding drills, some skipping drills.
你正在教我的制作人罗布和我一些弹跳训练，一些跳绳训练。
And we'll get back to this because there's such immense value for everybody, not just people who seek to be competitive runners, but for everybody to-- I realized this morning, it's hop, skip, and jump.
我们会回到这个话题，因为这对每个人来说都有巨大的价值，不仅是那些寻求成为有竞争力的跑步者的人，而且对每个人来说——我今天早上意识到，这就是跳、跳、跳。
We were always told, "I'm a hop, skip, and a jump away from..." But to learn how to move properly at speed, to move properly not at speed, there's just so much value in these drills and what we went through, and so we'll get back to that.
我们总是被告知，“我距离......一跳，一跳，一跳”但是要学习如何正确地以速度移动，如何正确地不以速度移动，这些练习和我们经历过的事情有很多价值，所以我们会回到这一点。
But there was an interesting moment yesterday, I recall, where some of the kids were getting out of school and started running around the track.
但我记得昨天有一个有趣的时刻，一些孩子放学后开始绕着跑道跑步。
And I had this question in my mind to ask you, which was, "Hey, can you spot any of those kids as likely to be really excellent sprinters?" But I didn't even have to ask.
我心里有一个问题要问你，那就是，“嘿，你能发现这些孩子中有谁可能成为真正优秀的短跑运动员吗？”但我什至不必问。
We watched them go out in a few rows, and then you said, "That kid right there."
我们看着他们排成几排出去，然后你说：“那个孩子就在那里。”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You said, "That kid right there, he's got it."
你说：“那个孩子就在那里，他做到了。”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What was it about the way he was running?
他跑步的方式是怎么回事？
Kid probably was eighth or ninth grade.
孩子可能是八年级或九年级。
Took one run away from us-
从我们身边逃走一趟——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and you said, "That kid's a sprinter."
你说：“那孩子是短跑运动员。”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Okay, yeah.
好吧，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What was it?
那是什么？
Was it his speed?
是他的速度吗？
Was it the form?
是表格吗？
What was it?
那是什么？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
First of all, it was not the form.
首先，这不是形式。
Because most of those kids their-
因为这些孩子中的大多数——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay
好的
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
limbs are going all over the place, right?
四肢到处乱窜，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It's how they interact with the ground, and it's this qualitative component that is really hard to define.
这就是它们与地面相互作用的方式，而这种定性成分确实很难定义。
If you watch a elite boxer hit a heavy bag, there's a pop sound to it.
如果你看到一位精英拳击手击打一个沉重的沙袋，你会听到一种爆裂声。
Pop, pop, pop, pop.
流行，流行，流行，流行。
And it's the same with elite sprinters.
精英短跑运动员也是如此。
Or not even elite sprinters, but anybody who's fast and effective and efficient at applying force against an object.
或者甚至不是优秀的短跑运动员，而是任何能够快速有效地对物体施加力量的人。
And you see that as young as we saw yesterday with what?
你看到的和我们昨天看到的一样年轻，是什么？
12, 13, 14-year-olds, right?
12、13、14岁的孩子吧？
Some of them are just thudding on the ground and just pushing back and kind of like Rob, your producer.
他们中的一些人只是在地上重击，只是反击，有点像你的制片人罗布。
But
但是
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which by the way, folks, we were taking a couple of jabs at Rob.
顺便说一句，伙计们，我们对罗布进行了几次攻击。
He's in the room with us now, although off-camera.
他现在和我们一起在房间里，尽管不在镜头之外。
Rob has run multiple triathlons.
罗布参加过多次铁人三项比赛。
He's an incredibly impressive athlete and, as an incredibly impressive athlete, we can jab at him every now and again.
他是一位令人难以置信的令人印象深刻的运动员，作为一位令人难以置信的令人印象深刻的运动员，我们可以时不时地攻击他。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100%.
100%。
But this one kid, he was far more efficient on the ground than everyone else.
但这小子，在地面上的效率却远超其他人。
It was just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, and you could hear it.
就是流行音乐、流行音乐、流行音乐、流行音乐、流行音乐、流行音乐、流行音乐，你都能听到。
And I hear it.
我听到了。
Generally, I hear it before I see it.
一般来说，我是在看到之前听到的。
And that, I think, is actually what I heard first, and I looked around and said, "Oh, that's the kid.
我想，这实际上就是我首先听到的，我环顾四周说：“哦，就是那个孩子。
He's a sprinter." And then you just kind of look at his form, and it just looks better.
他是一名短跑运动员。”然后你只要看看他的形态，就会发现它看起来更好了。
There's just a quality to that that you don't see with these other kids, and even though limbs are going all over the place, and head is going from side to side, and his feet are going all over the place, and hands are flapping like wings.
这是一种你在其他孩子身上看不到的品质，尽管四肢到处乱动，头左右摇摆，脚到处乱动，双手像翅膀一样拍打。
There's just a fluidity.
只是有一种流动性。
Even with him looking like that, he just does doing it much more coordinated and fluid than everyone else, who it looked like they were trying hard.
即使他看起来像那样，他确实比其他人做得更加协调和流畅，看起来他们很努力。
And with him, it didn't look like he was trying hard.
而且和他在一起，看起来并不像是在努力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And typically, that is, by the way, the differentiator between all elite and sub-elite athletes, regardless of the sport.
顺便说一下，通常情况下，这就是所有精英运动员和次精英运动员之间的区别，无论运动项目如何。
The best athletes are always the ones that make it look the easiest, and that kid just made it look easier than everyone else.
最好的运动员总是那些看起来最容易的人，而那个孩子只是让它看起来比其他人更容易。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Could you send a kid like that out for a 400-meter run and then meet him at the line and say, "You know what?
你能派一个这样的孩子出去跑 400 米，然后在终点线遇见他并说：“你知道吗？
You're meant to run the 200," or "You're meant to run the 100"?
你是要跑 200 米”还是“你是要跑 100 米”？
Is it possible to tell whether or not somebody is meant for a particular distance based on how they do in a slightly different distance?
是否可以根据某人在稍微不同的距离上的表现来判断某人是否适合特定的距离？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, especially not at that age.
是的，尤其是在那个年纪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
At that age, you want him to be doing or her to be doing as many different events as possible.
在那个年纪，你希望他或她做尽可能多的不同的活动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And let's just trial them all.
让我们全部尝试一下。
I don't think they should even, at that age, at 12, 13, 14, say, "You're a sprinter.
我认为他们甚至不应该在那个年龄，12、13、14 岁时说：“你是一名短跑运动员。
You're a sprinter, and you're a jumper."
你是一名短跑运动员，也是一名跳远运动员。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
"And maybe we'll do some middle distance, and we'll do some relays, and then we can do a couple throws as well."
“也许我们会做一些中距离训练，我们会做一些接力训练，然后我们也可以做几次投掷。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
"And see which one that you're kind of enjoying the most," number one, and then number two, "What are you actually showing some expertise towards?" And hopefully, those two things match.
“看看你最喜欢哪一个，”第一，然后是第二，“你实际上在什么方面表现出了一些专业知识？”希望这两件事能够匹配。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And then you can start looking at specializing for the kind of event group a little bit later.
然后您可以稍后开始考虑专门针对此类活动组。
And that comes a lot later than what many people outside of track and field think.
这比许多田径以外的人想象的要晚得多。
Even with most NCAA Division I college programs are pretty elite.
即使大多数 NCAA 第一级大学课程也相当精英。
That's some high-performing athletes.
那是一些表现出色的运动员。
And many of those sprinters do the one, the two, the four, all the relays, and often your best sprinters are also your best jumpers.
许多短跑运动员都会做一、二、四以及所有接力赛，而且通常最好的短跑运动员也是最好的跳远运动员。
So you might have your 100-meter specialist also do the long jump and the triple jump.
因此，您可能会让您的 100 米专家也进行跳远和三级跳远。
And it won't be until maybe the second or the third or fourth year of college, or maybe even their first year as a pro, where they start actually doing just the one or two events.
直到大学第二年、第三年或第四年，甚至可能成为职业球员的第一年，他们才开始真正只参加一两项活动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I ran cross country as a senior in high school.
我高中四年级时就参加过越野跑。
I've been running consistently since I was 16, three times a week.
我从 16 岁起就坚持跑步，每周跑步 3 次。
I don't consider myself even a runner.
我什至不认为自己是一个跑步者。
I just run for the pleasure of it.
我只是为了其中的乐趣而奔跑。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A long run, a medium run, and a short run.
分为长期跑、中期跑、短期跑。
But perhaps it was the movies about Steve Prefontaine, of which there were two.
但也许是关于史蒂夫·普雷方丹的电影，其中有两部。
I think one's called "Prefontaine" and the other one's called "Without Limits"-
我认为一个叫做“Prefontaine”，另一个叫做“Without Limits”-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that are quite good, that got me excited about track.
这非常好，这让我对赛道感到兴奋。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then I started going up to University of Oregon and attending track meets as a fan.
然后我开始去俄勒冈大学并以球迷的身份参加田径比赛。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there's this dramatized moment about Pre, as they called him, and Bowerman, the coach up at in Eugene, where allegedly, purportedly, Pre wants to run the mile because everyone in the country at that time was obsessed with who's the fastest miler.
但是，有一个关于普雷（他们这样称呼他）和尤金的教练鲍尔曼的戏剧性时刻，据说，据称，普雷想要跑一英里，因为当时全国每个人都痴迷于谁是最快的一英里跑者。
But Bowerman says to him, "No, you're a 5,000 runner.
但鲍尔曼对他说：“不，你是一名 5000 米跑者。
You're going to run the three-mile." And he said, "No one cares about the 5,000." He said, "You're going to make them care." And it turned out to be the right fit.
你要跑三英里。”他说：“没有人关心这 5000 人。”他说：“你会让他们关心的。”事实证明这是正确的选择。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The 5,000 was the right event for him.
5,000 米比赛对他来说是正确的选择。
So that was a moment where a coach could identify, you could be a great miler, but you'll be a spectacular 5,000 runner.
因此，在那个时刻，教练可以确定，您可以成为一名出色的一英里运动员，但您将成为一名出色的 5,000 米跑者。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is that based on sort of times and splits and recovery and all that, or is there actually a body type and a gait that is best?
这是基于某种时间、分叉和恢复等等，还是实际上存在最好的体型和步态？
Because one of my favorite things to find on social media I promise this is not a digression, is where they'll set out a race, an animated race between a rabbit, a cheetah, an elephant, a human.
因为我最喜欢在社交媒体上找到的东西之一，我保证这不是题外话，他们会在那里举办一场比赛，一场兔子、猎豹、大象和人类之间的动画比赛。
It's very interesting to see which animals are fastest over which distances.
看看哪些动物在哪些距离上跑得最快是非常有趣的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They fall out over different distances.
它们掉落的距离不同。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And most people, perhaps, are surprised to find that the animal that wins the long, long, long, longest distance and beats all the other species is us.
也许大多数人会惊讶地发现，赢得长距离、长距离、打败所有其他物种的动物就是我们。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
The human.
人类。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
So we're not good in the sprint compared to the cheetah, but we are oh so good at the marathon and ultramarathon compared to the cheetah or any other animal.
因此，与猎豹相比，我们在短跑方面表现不佳，但与猎豹或任何其他动物相比，我们在马拉松和超级马拉松方面表现出色。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So do you think it's something special about the gait, the personality, times in various events?
那么您认为各种赛事中的步态、性格、时间有什么特别之处吗？
I mean, what funnels somebody's understanding of themselves or an athlete to say, "You're meant to do this"?
我的意思是，是什么让某人或运动员对自己或运动员的理解变得如此，说“你注定要这样做”？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
I think you nailed it at the end.
我认为你最终成功了。
Their understanding of themselves, I think, is a really important part of it.
我认为，他们对自己的了解是其中非常重要的一部分。
We find ourselves through movement, and we fall in love with whatever it is because that's what we do, and we tend to do it really well.
我们通过运动发现自己，并且爱上任何事物，因为这就是我们所做的，而且我们往往做得很好。
So I coached a British sprinter for a long time.
所以我长期指导一位英国短跑运动员。
Her name is Jodie Williams.
她的名字叫朱迪·威廉姆斯。
I coached her for about a decade, starting in 2015.
从 2015 年开始，我指导了她大约十年。
She just retired at the end of last season.
她在上赛季结束后刚刚退役。
She went when she was young, so between, I think, the ages of 13 and 17, she won 150 straight races in the 100 and the 200.
她年轻时就参加了比赛，所以我想，在 13 岁到 17 岁之间，她在 100 米和 200 米比赛中连续赢得了 150 场比赛。
Never lost.
从来没有失去过。
Was the best at every single age group all over the world for five years.
五年来，他在全球各个年龄组中都是最好的。
Finally lost, and did not really transition into being an elite 100 meter, 200 meter sprinter.
最终还是输了，并没有真正转型成为一名优秀的100米、200米短跑运动员。
But this was her identity.
但这就是她的身份。
She'd always been the fastest person.
她一直是跑得最快的人。
So when I started coaching her in 2015, '16, when she was 22, that was what she did.
所以当我在 2015 年开始指导她时，16 年，当时她 22 岁，她就是这么做的。
She was a 100, 200 meter girl.
她是一个100、200米的女孩。
But she wasn't elite.
但她并不是精英。
She wasn't world-class.
她不是世界一流的。
And we kept on pushing her towards the 100 and 200 because this was what she saw herself as, and me external to that, what I saw her as as well, and everyone else expected from her because she was the best in the world for so long.
我们不断将她推向 100 和 200，因为这是她对自己的看法，也是我对她的看法，也是我对她的看法，也是其他人对她的期望，因为她长期以来一直是世界上最好的。
And a funny thing happened sort of five years into that.
五年后发生了一件有趣的事情。
We did a relay, a four-by-four, early season at Arizona State University, and she ran really fast in this four-by-four relay.
我们在亚利桑那州立大学进行了接力赛，一个四乘四的早期赛季，她在这个四乘四的接力赛中跑得非常快。
And she enjoyed it.
她很享受。
And she didn't enjoy getting beat in the 100 and the 200 anymore.
她不再喜欢在 100 米和 200 米比赛中被击败。
And she said, "Hmm.
她说：“嗯。
Maybe I can do the 400." And in the 2019 World Championships in Doha, she made the British team in the 200.
也许我可以跑400米。”在2019年多哈世锦赛上，她入选了英国队200强赛。
Didn't do very well, but ran the relay, ran the four-by-four, and ran the fastest split of all the countries.
成绩不是很好，但跑了接力赛、跑了四乘四赛、跑了所有国家中最快的分裂赛。
She ran 49.4 on a four-by-four split.
她在四乘四的比赛中跑出了 49.4 分。
And said, "Okay.
并说：“好吧。
We're a 400-meter runner now." So sometimes it's just that.
我们现在是400米跑者了。”所以有时候就是这样。
Sometimes it takes a long time for the athlete to come to the realization that this is what they connect with.
有时，运动员需要很长时间才能意识到这就是他们所联系的。
Like, "This is who I am." You know what I mean?
就像，“这就是我。”你知道我的意思？
It's not as easy as just saying, "Oh, we've got a bunch of tests, and you're a 100 meter, you're a 200, you're a 400." For her, it took her over a decade to come to terms with the fact that, "I can't do the 100 and 200 anymore.
这并不像说“哦，我们有很多测试，你是 100 米，你是 200 米，你是 400 米”那么简单。对她来说，她花了十多年的时间才接受这样一个事实：“我不能再做 100 和 200 了。
But I could be really good at the 400." And then two years later, at the 2020 Olympic Games, which ended up being obviously in '21, she was sixth in the 400 meters in the Olympics.
但我可以在 400 米比赛中表现出色。”两年后，在 2020 年奥运会上，显然是在 21 世纪，她在奥运会 400 米比赛中获得第六名。
Ran 49.9 twice.
两次跑出49.9。
So in hindsight, we wonder if we moved into the 400 five years earlier, three or four years earlier, maybe she could've had a medal, but yeah, it's an interesting one.
所以事后看来，我们想知道如果我们提前五年、三四年进入 400 米比赛，也许她可以获得一枚奖牌，但是，是的，这是一个有趣的奖牌。
We're always using all of the different pieces of information that we have at hand.
我们总是使用手头所有不同的信息。
Some of it's quantitative, some of it is qualitative, some of it is just a feeling.
有些是定量的，有些是定性的，有些只是感觉。
And with Jodie specifically, it was what did I better connect with?
特别是对于朱迪来说，我能更好地联系到什么？
Because as I said, that's why we get into sport in the first place.
因为正如我所说，这就是我们进入体育运动的首要原因。
If we can't connect with that as an individual with why we're doing it, then why are we even doing it?
如果我们不能将其作为个人与我们这样做的原因联系起来，那么我们为什么还要这样做呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I feel like this is a great metaphor for life in general, for career.
我觉得这是对生活和职业生涯的一个很好的比喻。
I've enjoyed different careers, and I'm glad I started in the one I did, but that I've ended up in the one I'm in now, even though I still teach and am involved in research in some ways.
我喜欢不同的职业，我很高兴我一开始就从事现在的职业，但我最终还是选择了现在的职业，尽管我仍然在教书并以某些方式参与研究。
There's such an immense pleasure to finding the thing-
找到这个东西真是太高兴了——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for oneself.
为了自己。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But you can't get there first.
但你不能先到达那里。
This is what I think is frustrating to young people now because of the internet.
我认为这就是现在年轻人因为互联网而感到沮丧的事情。
They think, like, "What's my calling?
他们想，“我的使命是什么？
What's my event?
我的活动是什么？
What's my sport?
我的运动是什么？
What am I built for?" And then you have all these examples, right?
我生来是为了什么？”然后你就有了所有这些例子，对吗？
You've got your Shaquille O'Neals-
你有你的沙奎尔·奥尼尔-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
clearly built for basketball.
显然是为篮球而设计的。
And then you have your, growing up when I grew up, your Spud Webb.
然后你就有了你的，当我长大的时候，你也长大了，你的斯普德·韦伯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Much, much shorter than most of the professional players in the NBA, but wins the slam dunk competition, and so he's always used as an example that you can bridge these gaps.
比 NBA 的大多数职业球员矮得多，但他赢得了扣篮比赛，因此他总是被用作弥补这些差距的榜样。
But I do think that dedicated application to one area is the best lane from which to exit to another freeway.
但我确实认为，专用于一个区域的应用程序是退出到另一条高速公路的最佳车道。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You can't just get onto the Autobahn, so to speak, for you.
可以这么说，你不能直接上高速公路。
You have to sometimes get on Highway 101 for a while and speed a little bit or crash.
有时你必须在 101 号高速公路上行驶一段时间，稍微加快速度，否则就会发生车祸。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm not being literal here.
我在这里不是说字面意思。
You said something that I think is immensely powerful, I'd like to use as a segue, which is that we find ourselves through movement.
你说了一些我认为非常有力的东西，我想用它来作为一个延续，那就是我们通过运动发现自己。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think this is so true, and not just for people who are trying to figure out what athletic or exercise endeavors are best for them, but certainly there.
我认为这是千真万确的，不仅对于那些试图弄清楚什么运动或锻炼活动最适合他们的人来说，而且肯定是存在的。
I'd like to contrast jogging and running.
我想对比一下慢跑和跑步。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yesterday, you mentioned a few things that, to me, just feel like gems because, like I said, I'll try and run far-ish for me.
昨天，你提到了一些对我来说就像宝石一样的事情，因为就像我说的，我会尝试为自己跑得更远。
I go by time, about an hour once a week, 30 minutes on another day, and let's just say about a 15-minute, not all out, but close to all out on a separate day.
我按照时间来计算，每周一次大约一个小时，另一天大约 30 分钟，我们就说大约 15 分钟，不是全力以赴，但在另一天接近全力以赴。
I've tried ad nauseam to figure out whether or not it's best to heel strike and roll, whether or not it's best to land on the toe, whether it's best to lift the knee.
我拼尽全力地想弄清楚是否最好是脚跟着地并滚动，是否最好用脚趾着地，是否最好抬起膝盖。
For the uninformed who goes to the internet, you can get answers about this all sorts of ways.
对于上网的不知情者，您可以通过各种方式获得有关此问题的答案。
Let's start with the slowest movement possible, which is walking.
让我们从最慢的运动开始，那就是步行。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's forget about speed walking for sake of this conversation-
为了这次谈话，让我们忘记快走——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for a number of reasons.
由于多种原因。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Race walking.
竞走。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Race walking.
竞走。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Excuse me.
对不起。
Race walking.
竞走。
See, I even forgot the name of it.
瞧，我什至忘记了它的名字。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
No disrespect to race walkers.
没有对竞走运动员的不尊重。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No disrespect to race walkers, but most people don't seek to race walk, I think.
没有对竞走运动员的不尊重，但我认为大多数人并不寻求竞走。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But let's talk about walking.
但我们来谈谈步行。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When we walk, do we heel to toe roll naturally?
当我们走路时，脚跟到脚趾自然滚动吗？
Do we middle of foot to toe roll?
我们是否从脚中部到脚趾滚动？
And then let's proceed to jogging-
然后我们就开始慢跑吧——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
running, and then let's step up through the-
跑步，然后让我们逐步完成-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
various gear systems.
各种齿轮系统。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
There's probably five separate gait patterns.
可能有五种独立的步态模式。
Walking is the first one, and typically, most people will strike on their heel, they'll roll over, and they'll toe off on their toe.
走路是第一个，通常，大多数人会用脚后跟撞击，他们会翻身，他们会用脚趾着地。
And we do that up to about two to 2.2 to 2.3 meters a second, until we can no longer do that.
我们每秒移动大约 2 至 2.2 至 2.3 米，直到我们无法再这样做为止。
So we start walking, we walk really, really slow, and if we start increasing our speed, you'll find that you'll almost self-organize into the speed that feels really nice for you.
所以我们开始走路，我们走得非常非常慢，如果我们开始加快速度，你会发现你几乎会自我组织到对你来说感觉非常好的速度。
If you were going for a walk, you would self-organize towards your most efficient or your most stable velocity for that walk.
如果您要去散步，您会自我组织以最有效或最稳定的速度进行步行。
And if you're not thinking about it, you will self-organize towards your most efficient mechanical solution as well, that it might be flat foot, it might be right up high on your heel with massive amount of dorsiflexion.
如果你不考虑这一点，你也会自我组织到最有效的机械解决方案，它可能是平足，它可能是在你的脚后跟高处，有大量的背屈。
It might be a little bit lower on the heel, but that's all contingent upon your individual structure, how your foot is built, how it coordinates with your knee and your hip.
脚跟可能会低一点，但这完全取决于您的个人结构、脚的构造、与膝盖和臀部的协调方式。
If you're not thinking about it, we typically will self-organize towards what is most efficient, most stable for us.
如果你不考虑这一点，我们通常会自我组织，朝着对我们来说最有效、最稳定的方向发展。
And then as we get faster and faster and faster, you'll feel that stability and that inefficiency starts to rock a little bit, and you can no longer walk.
然后，当我们变得越来越快、越来越快时，你会感觉到稳定性和低效率开始有点动摇，你再也无法行走。
And what do we do then?
那我们该怎么办呢？
To get faster, we actually have to transition to a totally different gait pattern, and we start to jog because there's so much instability, inefficiency, that that pattern just begins to break down, and we start to jog.
为了跑得更快，我们实际上必须过渡到一种完全不同的步态模式，我们开始慢跑，因为存在太多的不稳定、低效率，以至于这种模式开始崩溃，我们开始慢跑。
Let me back up just a little bit.
让我稍微备份一下。
So if you were to walk with, let's say, your 80-year-old neighbor, and you're doing a walk with her.
因此，如果您要与您 80 岁的邻居一起散步，并且您正在与她一起散步。
That's probably going to be pretty taxing for you, pretty uneconomical, pretty inefficient, because you have to shuffle a little bit.
这对你来说可能会非常费力，非常不经济，非常低效，因为你必须稍微洗牌。
You're walking so slow, you're probably going to be bent over a little bit.
你走得太慢了，你可能会稍微弯腰。
But if the neighbor went in, and you just continued to walk, you would speed up to your most efficient pattern.
但如果邻居进去了，而你继续走，你就会加速到最有效的模式。
So within all of these gait patterns, there is almost like an upside-down U, where you start off really inefficient, unstable.
因此，在所有这些步态模式中，几乎就像一个倒U形，一开始就非常低效、不稳定。
As you get faster and faster and faster, efficiency increases, stability increases, and you keep getting faster and faster and faster.
当你变得越来越快、越来越快时，效率就会提高，稳定性也会提高，而且你会变得越来越快、越来越快。
Stability goes down again.
稳定性再次下降。
Efficiency goes down again before you have to transition to a different pattern.
在您必须转换到不同的模式之前，效率会再次下降。
So jogging occurs at somewhere around 20% of your maximum sprint speed, so whether that's 1.8 to two to 2.2 meters per second, and then we start to jog, and eventually, we can't jog at that speed anymore, so we have to transition to a different gait pattern, and we start to run.
因此，慢跑发生在最大冲刺速度的 20% 左右，无论是每秒 1.8 米、2 米还是 2.2 米，然后我们开始慢跑，最终，我们不能再以那个速度慢跑，所以我们必须过渡到不同的步态模式，然后我们开始跑步。
And that's kind of what we were doing yesterday, in fact.
事实上，这就是我们昨天所做的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
We spent some time running.
我们花了一些时间跑步。
Now, it's important, you asked me about heel strike and where we are within the foot.
现在，重要的是，你问我关于脚跟着地以及我们在脚内的位置。
We're thinking about the same thing throughout, and that's just to move from here to there as efficiently as we can, understanding that we will typically, as I said, self-organize towards our most efficient pattern, and the only time we actually think about doing something different than that is when somebody outside tells us to do something different and messes up the efficiency most of the time.
我们自始至终都在思考同一件事，那就是尽可能高效地从这里移动到那里，正如我所说，我们通常会自组织，朝着最高效的模式发展，而我们真正考虑做一些与此不同的事情的唯一一次是当外面有人告诉我们做一些不同的事情并且大多数时候会搞砸效率时。
So for me, it's like the big cueing, and we talked about this yesterday, right?
所以对我来说，这就像一个大提示，我们昨天讨论过这个，对吧？
We said flat foot contact, and if you think about being flat foot contact and all of the different things that you do, all the different gait patterns you do, the velocity is what determines where in the foot you actually will contact.
我们说的是扁平足接触，如果你考虑扁平足接触以及你所做的所有不同的事情，你所做的所有不同的步态模式，速度决定了你实际接触脚的位置。
So if you're walking and you're thinking flat foot, you'll actually go heel strike, you'll roll over, and you toe off.
因此，如果您在走路时认为自己是扁平足，那么实际上您会出现脚跟着地、翻身、脚尖离地的情况。
And if you're sprinting as fast as you can, you're thinking flat foot contact, you will actually plantar flex slightly just prior to ground contact, and you'll contact the ground more towards your toes than you will if you were just walking or running or jogging.
如果你尽可能快地冲刺，你会想到平足接触，实际上你的跖骨会在接触地面之前稍微弯曲，并且你会比你只是走路、跑步或慢跑时更靠近脚趾接触地面。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We should clarify for people, dorsiflexion is when your toes come close up towards your shin.
我们应该向人们澄清，背屈是指当你的脚趾靠近你的胫骨时。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're narrowing that angle between your foot and your-
你正在缩小你的脚和你的-之间的角度
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
front lower part of your lower limb, and plantarflexion is the opposite.
下肢前下部，跖屈则相反。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Pointing the toe.
指着脚趾。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Think attempting to go ballerina and point, but hopefully, unless you're a ballerina, you're not getting all the way there.
想象一下尝试成为芭蕾舞演员并指点，但希望除非您是芭蕾舞演员，否则您不会一直走到那里。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Which is, to get to your initial point as well, is how many of us were taught to sprint up high on our toes when we were kids?
回到你最初的观点，我们中有多少人在小时候就被教导要踮起脚尖冲刺？
We all were, right?
我们都是，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Get up on your toes.
站起来。
Keep your arms at 90 degrees, and get up really, really tall, and that's totally opposite to what we should be doing.
保持你的手臂呈90度，并且站得非常非常高，这与我们应该做的完全相反。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Sometimes kids, when they run when they're real little-
有时孩子们，当他们很小的时候就奔跑——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like three or four, when they're just running around the house barefoot, they'll run on their toes.
比如三四个人，当他们赤脚在房子里跑来跑去时，他们会用脚趾跑。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what you're basically saying, if I understand correctly, is the speed should dictate the foot strike.
所以你基本上是说，如果我理解正确的话，速度应该决定脚部的击球。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
I think that's a very important point for people who are interested in running or already running.
我认为这对于那些对跑步感兴趣或已经跑步的人来说非常重要。
The speed should dictate the foot strike.
速度应该决定脚的着地。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That unless there's a problem to resolve-
除非有问题需要解决——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that a coach has told you need to resolve and how to do it, you shouldn't be thinking about heel striking or toe striking.
当教练告诉你需要下定决心以及如何去做时，你不应该考虑脚跟着地或脚趾着地。
You should be thinking-
你应该想——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
You should just be running
你应该只是跑步
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
about the speed that you're trying to cover the distance in.
关于您试图跑完距离的速度。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yep.
是的。
And if you're thinking about anything, just think about being flat.
如果你正在考虑任何事情，那就只想保持平坦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Just think about being flat, and the foot will take care of itself due to the velocity.
只要想象一下是平的，脚就会因为速度而自行调节。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's talk a little bit more about body position and running mechanics.
让我们更多地讨论一下身体姿势和跑步力学。
There may be no hard and fast rules to this, but where should my eyes be?
这可能没有硬性规定，但我的眼睛应该放在哪里？
I've heard, oh, you want to be looking above-- Assuming I'm not in a race against anyone, I'm heading out for a run, doesn't matter which duration.
我听说，哦，你想往上看——假设我没有与任何人比赛，我要去跑步，无论持续多长时间。
Does it matter where I place my vision?
我的愿景放在哪里重要吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
In sprinting, 100%.
在短跑中，100%。
I feel like the longer the distance is, the less it probably matters because the velocity is so much slower.
我觉得距离越长，它可能就越不重要，因为速度慢得多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I feel like if you're going out for a jog and it's 10-minute miles, you're probably looking pretty much straight ahead of you.
我觉得如果您出去慢跑并且跑了 10 分钟，您可能会直视前方。
And if it's a little bit darker and maybe you're on a rocky surface or something, or a little bit uneven surface, you're looking down a little bit.
如果天色有点暗，也许你在岩石表面或其他东西上，或者表面有点不平坦，那么你就会往下看。
But it doesn't seem to really have a systemic effect on how you move.
但它似乎并没有真正对你的移动方式产生系统性影响。
But it does when you sprint, because obviously your body's going to follow your eyes.
但当你冲刺时就会发生这种情况，因为显然你的身体会跟随你的眼睛。
So if you're running down the track and you're sprinting as fast as you can and your eyes creep up and you start looking up, then the chin is going to follow that, and you just start this extension pattern in the entirety of the system.
因此，如果你沿着跑道奔跑，并以最快的速度冲刺，你的眼睛会向上移动并开始向上看，那么下巴也会随之移动，然后你就在整个系统中开始了这种延伸模式。
As soon as you lift your chin up, you get into more extension through the ribcage and the spine, and then the lumbar, and everything gets extended.
一旦你抬起下巴，你的胸腔和脊柱就会得到更多的伸展，然后是腰椎，所有的东西都会得到伸展。
You end up standing up.
你最终站了起来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So more arched back-
所以更加拱背-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
A little bit more arched
稍微有点拱形
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
upright posture.
直立姿势。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For those who aren't familiar with flexion and extension, unless we say otherwise, if we talk about flexion, we're talking about assuming the dreaded C-shaped position that everyone seems so good at these days.
对于那些不熟悉屈曲和伸展的人来说，除非我们另有说明，否则如果我们谈论屈曲，我们谈论的是采用令人恐惧的 C 形位置，而如今每个人似乎都擅长这种姿势。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Collapsed toward their midline, versus extension, where your chin is up and away from the chest and you're-
向中线方向塌陷，而不是伸展，此时你的下巴向上并远离胸部，你-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
upright posture.
直立姿势。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And if the eyes come up first, you're going to end up in what's known as a hyperextended position.
如果眼睛先抬起来，你最终会处于所谓的过度伸展位置。
There's too much extension, where really what we want the eyes to do is just come with the rest of the torso.
延伸太多了，我们真正想让眼睛做的只是与躯干的其余部分一起。
So the cue that I use for the sprinters is allow your torso to determine when the chin and when the eyes come up, not the opposite way around.
因此，我对短跑运动员使用的提示是让你的躯干决定下巴何时抬起，眼睛何时抬起，而不是相反。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Because if the eyes come first, the chin follows, and then we get this disconnect between the head and the thorax and the pelvis, and there's just too much extension.
因为如果首先是眼睛，那么下巴就会紧随其后，然后我们就会在头部、胸部和骨盆之间出现这种脱节，并且延伸太多。
We end up kind of just pushing our way down the track rather than bouncing.
我们最终只是沿着轨道前进，而不是弹跳。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
There's a wonderful movement in yoga that's helped me a lot in my weightlifting over the years.
瑜伽中有一个很棒的动作，多年来对我的举重帮助很大。
I did a little bit of yoga when I lived in San Diego, because they had good yoga classes, where they have you do this kind of rag doll hanging over at the waist position.
当我住在圣地亚哥时，我做了一点瑜伽，因为他们有很好的瑜伽课程，他们让你做这种挂在腰部位置的布娃娃。
Looks like a Jefferson deadlift-
看起来像杰斐逊硬拉-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for the gym rats-
对于健身房老鼠来说——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or the Olympic lifters.
或奥林匹克举重运动员。
Rounded lower back.
下背部呈圆形。
And then they have you stand up from that position, but you deliberately start at your lower spine and unpeel yourself from that folded over position, never letting the head lead.
然后他们让你从那个位置站起来，但你故意从你的下脊柱开始，把自己从那个折叠的位置上解开，永远不要让头部引导。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So basically like a chain coming up from the spine, and then the head moves last.
所以基本上就像一条从脊柱上来的链条，然后头部最后移动。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's moving the whole time, but you're looking straight forward last, as opposed to what you're saying, where you lift the head first.
它一直在移动，但你最后是直视前方，而不是你所说的，你首先抬起头。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's been tremendously helpful to me in movements in the gym, which I think have helped me a lot, like glute ham raises, where you're essentially in that position, and then you come all the way up, and then you go into a hamstring curl.
这对我在健身房的运动非常有帮助，我认为这对我帮助很大，比如臀腿抬高，你基本上处于那个位置，然后你一路向上，然后你进入腿筋弯举。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or a deadlift, or any kind of movement where I'm going from torso bent forward to up.
或者硬拉，或者任何一种从躯干向前弯曲到向上的运动。
I remembered to move the torso first and the head last.
我记得先移动躯干，最后移动头部。
And I'll just say, in my own experience, the strength increases that come from doing it that way as opposed to moving the head first and trying to then pull the weight up, it's remarkable.
我只想说，根据我自己的经验，这样做可以增加力量，而不是先移动头部然后尝试将重量拉起来，这是非常了不起的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We are all so much stronger than we think if we engage the motor neurons in the proper sequence.
如果我们以正确的顺序调动运动神经元，我们都会比我们想象的要强大得多。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I think that's what you're referring to here.
所以我认为这就是你在这里指的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, 100%.
是的，100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Here's a question for you.
这里有一个问题要问你。
When you were first taught how to squat-
当你第一次被教如何深蹲时
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
were you told to look at the ceiling or up on the wall?
你被告知要看天花板还是墙上？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I was told the weight will go where my eyes go.
是的，有人告诉我，眼睛到哪里，重量就到哪里。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But now I-
但现在我——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Where did that come from?
那是从哪里来的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know.
我不知道。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I still don't understand where that came from.
我还是不明白那是从哪里来的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know.
我不知道。
Some of the most useful things that have been told to me over the years that made a tremendous difference would be like this, again, borrowed from yoga is who brought it into the gym, then when I talk to proper biomechanics folks like yourself or Kelly Starrett, they go, "Yeah, of course you have to move your spine and torso before."
多年来，有人告诉我一些最有用的事情，这些事情产生了巨大的影响，就像这样，再次借用瑜伽，是谁把它带进健身房，然后当我与像你自己或凯利·斯塔雷特这样的生物力学人士交谈时，他们会说，“是的，当然你之前必须移动你的脊柱和躯干。”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But one of the most useful things for the squat and for the deadlift has been, because it's very difficult to think about many things at once, especially when you're pulling or trying to squat heavy loads, is to move my chest and my hips at the same time-
但对于深蹲和硬拉来说，最有用的事情之一就是同时移动我的胸部和臀部，因为很难同时考虑很多事情，尤其是当你拉或尝试深蹲重物时——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
together, so that you don't end up doing the dreaded good morning back raise followed by standing up.
在一起，这样你就不会最终做可怕的早上好后举起然后站起来。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So moving them in unison, so thinking about my chest and my hips moving at the same time, that's been tremendously helpful and tends to put the head in the right position.
因此，一致地移动它们，想象一下我的胸部和臀部同时移动，这非常有帮助，并且往往会将头部置于正确的位置。
And the other one is, oh, right, when deadlifting, to not think about pulling the weight off the floor, but rather pushing my feet into the ground-
另一个是，哦，对了，硬拉时，不要想着把重量从地板上拉下来，而是把我的脚推到地面上——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
while driving back.
开车回来的时候。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And these little things end up making-
这些小事最终会导致——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a huge difference.
巨大的差异。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not just in terms of the amount of weight that you can pull or squat, but the safety of the movement.
不仅涉及您可以拉或蹲的重量，还涉及运动的安全性。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's just so much more stable to drive the feet into the ground.
将脚踩入地面会更加稳定。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you think, "Why was I trying to pull a weight off the ground?
你会想，“为什么我要试图把重物从地上拉下来？
All I have to do is push my feet hard into the ground and hold onto this bar," and boom, you're up.
我所要做的就是把我的脚用力踩在地上，并抓住这个杆，”然后，你就站起来了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
That easy.
就这么简单。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's wild how we pick up bad habits.
我们如何养成坏习惯真是太疯狂了。
It's also wild how quickly those bad habits can be resolved.
改掉这些坏习惯的速度也太快了。
So in keeping with that, back to running.
因此，与此保持一致，回到跑步。
I believe that everyone can and should run.
我相信每个人都可以而且应该跑步。
Most everyone.
大多数人。
There are certain people who can't run for various reasons.
有些人由于各种原因无法跑步。
But that people who can walk very likely can run, and I'm becoming more of a believer with every moment I spend with you that sprinting is more valuable than jogging.
但能走路的人很可能也能跑步，而且随着我和你在一起的每一刻，我越来越相信短跑比慢跑更有价值。
That sprinting is more valuable than any kind of distance run.
短跑比任何长跑都更有价值。
And I'm going to offend a lot of people, but I love long distance running, so I'm offending myself.
我会得罪很多人，但我喜欢长跑，所以我得罪了自己。
Yesterday, we didn't sprint, but we did a lot of skipping.
昨天，我们没有冲刺，但我们进行了很多跳绳。
Let's talk about skipping.
我们来谈谈跳绳。
And yes, I'm talking about skip, skip, skip, okay, this thing.
是的，我说的是跳过，跳过，跳过，好吧，这件事。
I'm not going to sing the rest of that.
剩下的我不会唱。
Skipping is such a natural movement for people, most people, and it feels so damn good.
对于大多数人来说，跳绳是一种很自然的运动，而且感觉非常好。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's actually a bit more taxing than people believe.
事实上，这比人们想象的要重一些。
And I came out of that workout from skipping yesterday, feeling like my hips were nice and open-
我昨天跳绳训练结束后，感觉我的臀部很漂亮而且很开放——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
tons of extension.
大量的扩展。
My posture's up.
我的姿势站起来了
I feel like I grew an inch.
我感觉自己长大了一英寸。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I was strong in the gym this morning.
今天早上我在健身房里很强壮。
I just feel incredible.
我只是觉得不可思议。
What is it about skipping, and why do you have sprinters skip so much?
跳绳是怎么回事？为什么短跑运动员跳绳次数如此之多？
And why aren't more people talking about skipping?
为什么没有更多的人谈论跳绳？
And yes, we will return to gait stuff, but I think we have to talk about skipping.
是的，我们将回到步态的话题，但我认为我们必须谈谈跳绳。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
First of all, we skipped a lot because the reality is you could not sprint, and that is the reality for almost everybody because we stop sprinting when we're whatever age.
首先，我们跳过了很多，因为现实是你无法短跑，这也是几乎每个人的现实，因为无论我们什么年龄，我们都会停止短跑。
Some people stop sprinting at 15, some people it's 20, but very few people are actually sprinting through their 20s, and next to nobody is sprinting through their 30s.
有些人在 15 岁就停止冲刺，有些人在 20 岁就停止冲刺，但很少有人真正冲刺到 20 岁，几乎没有人冲刺到 30 岁。
So we know that the movement of sprinting or running fast, and we kind of know what this does and why this is good for you, right?
所以我们知道冲刺或快速跑步的运动，我们也知道它的作用以及为什么这对你有好处，对吗？
We know that, yeah, moving our body intentively, with intensity, is probably something we should be able to do for as long as we possibly can.
我们知道，是的，专注地、强度地移动我们的身体可能是我们应该能够尽可能长时间地做的事情。
But we can't, because typically, we've still got pretty good engines into our 30s and 40s and 50s, but we don't have the bodies to be able to handle the stresses and the forces that this engine could put into the body.
但我们不能，因为通常情况下，我们在 30 岁、40 岁和 50 岁的时候仍然拥有相当好的发动机，但我们的身体没有能够承受该发动机可能施加到身体上的压力和力量。
So our tissue and our joints just is not able to handle all of these forces.
所以我们的组织和关节无法承受所有这些力。
If you were to go out and sprint yesterday, even if we did, we ended up warming up for how long?
如果你昨天出去冲刺，即使我们出去了，我们最终热身了多长时间？
An hour and a half warm-up.
一个半小时的热身。
If we did, let's say, a real proper warm-up and we warmed up for 30 minutes, and then I just said, "Andrew, I want you to sprint as fast as you possibly can for 50 meters," that's not going to end well for most people.
如果我们做了一次真正适当的热身，热身了 30 分钟，然后我只是说，“安德鲁，我希望你尽可能快地冲刺 50 米”，这对大多数人来说不会有好结果。
Maybe you could get through it yesterday, but for most people, that wouldn't end well.
也许你昨天就能度过难关，但对于大多数人来说，这不会有好结果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You end up with a pull or a-
你最终会受到拉力或-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Exactly
正是如此
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
strain or a couple days of just feeling-
紧张或几天的感觉-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
not well.
不太好。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Because we just don't do that, and we don't have the tissue capacity to be able to handle that anymore, or the joint capacity.
因为我们只是不这样做，而且我们没有组织能力来处理这个问题，或者关节能力。
There's so many people, they have to run really quickly somewhere, and they just didn't know that they had to do it, or they're playing backyard basketball or football, and they tweak a hamstring or tweak a calf or something even worse, right?
有很多人，他们必须在某个地方跑得很快，但他们只是不知道自己必须这样做，或者他们在后院打篮球或踢足球，他们扭伤了腿筋或扭伤了小腿，或者发生了更糟糕的事情，对吗？
Happens all the time.
一直在发生。
We just do not have the tissue capacity anymore to handle those forces.
我们只是不再有足够的组织能力来应对这些力量。
So what do we do instead?
那么我们该怎么办呢？
And I typically recommend two activities.
我通常推荐两项活动。
One is running up hills.
一是跑上山。
There's a lot less stress on the tissue and the joint system by sprinting up a hill than there is on sprinting on a straightaway.
冲刺上山对组织和关节系统的压力比直道冲刺要小得多。
But second, and I think more important, is actually skipping.
但第二，我认为更重要的是，实际上是跳绳。
And I'm with you.
我和你在一起。
I don't know why we stopped skipping.
我不知道为什么我们不再跳绳了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it's associated with only childlike behavior.
我认为这仅与孩子气的行为有关。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But that's like saying jump rope is only associated with-
但这就像说跳绳只与-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
childlike behavior, and I'm a big believer in skipping rope.
孩子气的行为，而且我是跳绳的忠实信徒。
We'll talk about skipping rope.
我们来谈谈跳绳。
But I think that's it.
但我想就是这样。
Yeah.
是的。
Maybe this conversation or this portion of the conversation could be titled, "Let's Normalize Skipping-
也许这个对话或对话的这一部分可以标题为“让我们规范化跳过——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for Adults."
对于成人来说。”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It felt awesome.
感觉棒极了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You can cover a lot of ground quickly.
您可以快速覆盖很多领域。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Heart rate gets up, but not to an outrageous degree.
心率上升，但没有达到令人难以忍受的程度。
You're not sucking for air.
你不是在吸空气。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it does feel a little silly if you're not on a track.
但如果你不在轨道上，这确实感觉有点傻。
But you've mentioned, what's the longest distance you've ever skipped?
但你提到过，你跳绳最长的距离是多少？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
10 miles.
10 英里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Did you get some funny looks?
你有没有看到一些有趣的表情？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I got a few.
我有几个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nice.
不错。
And you're a real tall guy.
而且你是一个真正的高个子。
You're 6'3", so-
你身高 6 英尺 3 英寸，所以-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you can't really hide-
你真的无法隐藏-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
No
否
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
very easily.
很容易。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
That was in the park, so there wasn't a lot of people.
那是在公园里，所以人不多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
But I skip for 20 minutes every morning on the roads.
但我每天早上都会在路上跳绳 20 分钟。
I get a few honks, but that's okay.
我听到了一些喇叭声，但没关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They could be honks of approval.
他们可能会鸣笛表示赞同。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Could well be.
很可能是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, or something else.
是啊，或者别的什么。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
But you think about it.
但你想一想。
You're actually taxing the coordination patterns and the tissue in the joints in pretty similar ways as if we were going to sprint.
实际上，你正在以与我们要冲刺非常相似的方式对协调模式和关节组织进行负荷。
We're working on pushing the knee behind the hip, getting into this knee-behind-butt pattern, this hip extension pattern, which is so important.
我们正在努力将膝盖推到臀部后面，进入这种膝盖在屁股后面的模式，这种髋部伸展模式，这是非常重要的。
And I know this is a topic of conversation that you had with Kelly when Kelly was on here, the importance of getting your knee behind your butt and finding and searching for opportunities to do that more often, because we lose that so easily.
我知道这是凯利在场时您与凯利讨论的一个话题，即把膝盖放在屁股后面并寻找和寻找更频繁地这样做的机会的重要性，因为我们很容易失去这一点。
So skipping allows us to do that.
所以跳过可以让我们做到这一点。
Secondary to that is the coordination aspect between how we coordinate the flexion-extension at the ankle, the flexion-extension at the knee, and the flexion-extension at the hip, and we do that in a very similar way as sprinting, where each of them stiffen at this time that is considered throughout the entirety of the system, where it's just like the spring.
其次是我们如何协调脚踝的屈伸、膝盖的屈伸和臀部的屈伸之间的协调方面，我们以与短跑非常相似的方式做到这一点，其中每个人此时都会僵硬，这在整个系统中都会被考虑，就像弹簧一样。
The leg acts as a spring, where if you think about when we jog or when we run, we're kind of running on our ankles and knees a little bit.
腿就像一个弹簧，如果你想一下当我们慢跑或跑步时，我们会稍微用脚踝和膝盖来跑步。
We don't feel like we're really using our hips when you're running a 10-minute mile.
当您跑 10 分钟一英里时，我们感觉不到真正使用臀部。
It's a lot of stress through the foot.
足部承受很大的压力。
It's a lot of stress through the calves.
小腿承受很大的压力。
And by the way, I'm not anti-running or anti-jogging.
顺便说一句，我并不反对跑步或反对慢跑。
I jog, and I run, and I still do all that stuff.
我慢跑，跑步，我仍然做所有这些事情。
I'm not saying now stop doing all that and just go and skip.
我并不是说现在停止做所有这些事情并跳过。
I'm just saying find some opportunities to also skip, because skipping, we actually can tax the system in very similar ways as pretty high-intensity sprinting.
我只是说找到一些机会来跳过，因为跳过，我们实际上可以以与高强度冲刺非常相似的方式对系统进行征税。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsor, AG1.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。
AG1 is an all-in-one vitamin mineral probiotic drink with adaptogens.
AG1 是一种含有适应原的一体化维生素矿物质益生菌饮料。
I've been taking AG1 daily since 2012, so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring this podcast.
自 2012 年以来，我每天都服用 AG1，所以我很高兴他们赞助这个播客。
The reason I started taking AG1, and the reason I still take AG1, is because it is the highest quality and most complete foundational nutritional supplement.
我开始服用 AG1 的原因，以及我仍然服用 AG1 的原因，是因为它是最高品质和最完整的基础营养补充剂。
What that means is that AG1 ensures that you're getting all the necessary vitamins, minerals, and other micronutrients to form a strong foundation for your daily health.
这意味着 AG1 可确保您获得所有必需的维生素、矿物质和其他微量营养素，为您的日常健康奠定坚实的基础。
AG1 also has probiotics and prebiotics that support a healthy gut microbiome.
AG1 还含有支持健康肠道微生物群的益生菌和益生元。
Your gut microbiome consists of trillions of microorganisms that line your digestive tract and impact things such as your immune system status, your metabolic health, your hormone health, and much more.
您的肠道微生物组由数万亿微生物组成，这些微生物排列在您的消化道中，并影响您的免疫系统状态、代谢健康、激素健康等。
So I've consistently found that when I take AG1 daily, my digestion is improved, my immune system is more robust, and my mood and mental focus are at their best.
因此，我一直发现，当我每天服用 AG1 时，我的消化能力得到改善，我的免疫系统更加强大，我的情绪和精神集中度也处于最佳状态。
In fact, if I could take just one supplement, that supplement would be AG1.
事实上，如果我只能服用一种补充剂，那么该补充剂就是 AG1。
If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。
They'll give you five free travel packs plus a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2 with your order of AG1.
您订购 AG1 时，他们将赠送您五个免费旅行包以及一年的维生素 D3 K2。
Again, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim this special offer.
请再次访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 领取此特别优惠。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Helix Sleep.
今天的节目也是由 Helix Sleep 为我们带来的。
Helix Sleep makes mattresses and pillows that are customized to your unique sleep needs.
Helix Sleep 生产根据您独特的睡眠需求定制的床垫和枕头。
Now, I've spoken many times before on this and other podcasts about the fact that getting a great night's sleep is the foundation of mental health, physical health, and performance.
现在，我之前已经在这个播客和其他播客中多次谈到这样一个事实：睡个好觉是心理健康、身体健康和表现的基础。
When we aren't sleeping well or enough on a consistent basis, everything suffers.
当我们睡眠质量不佳或持续睡眠不足时，一切都会受到影响。
And when we are sleeping well and enough, our mental health, physical health, and performance in all endeavors improves markedly.
当我们睡眠充足且良好时，我们的心理健康、身体健康和所有努力的表现都会显着改善。
Now, the mattress you sleep on makes a huge difference in the quality of sleep that you get each night.
现在，您所睡的床垫会对您每晚的睡眠质量产生巨大影响。
How soft it is or how firm it is, how breathable it is, all play into your comfort and need to be tailored to your unique sleep needs.
它的柔软程度、硬度、透气程度都会影响您的舒适度，并且需要根据您独特的睡眠需求进行定制。
If you go to the Helix website, you can take a brief two-minute quiz, which will ask you questions such as do you sleep on your back, your side, or your stomach?
如果你访问Helix网站，你可以做一个两分钟的简短测验，它会问你一些问题，比如你是仰卧、侧卧还是俯卧？
Do you tend to run hot or cold during the night?
你晚上容易感到热还是冷？
Things of that sort.
诸如此类的事情。
Now, maybe you know the answers to those questions, maybe you don't.
现在，也许您知道这些问题的答案，也许您不知道。
Either way, Helix will match you to the ideal mattress for you.
无论哪种方式，Helix 都会为您匹配理想的床垫。
For me, that turned out to be the Dusk mattress.
对我来说，那是黄昏床垫。
I started sleeping on the Dusk mattress about three and a half years ago, and it's been far and away the best sleep that I've ever had.
大约三年半前，我开始睡在 Dusk 床垫上，这无疑是我睡过的最好的睡眠。
So much so that when I travel and I'm not on my Dusk mattress, I really miss it.
以至于当我旅行时，如果我不在 Dusk 床垫上，我真的很想念它。
And when I get home, I just find that I sleep so much better because of that mattress.
当我回到家时，我发现我因为那个床垫睡得更好了。
If you'd like to try Helix, you can go to helixsleep.com/huberman, take that two-minute sleep quiz, and Helix will match you to a mattress that's customized for you.
如果您想尝试 Helix，可以访问 helixsleep.com/huberman，参加两分钟的睡眠测验，Helix 将为您匹配专为您定制的床垫。
Right now, Helix is giving up to 20% off on all mattress orders.
目前，Helix 对所有床垫订单提供高达 20% 的折扣。
Again, that's helixsleep.com/huberman to get up to 20% off.
再次强调，helixsleep.com/huberman 提供高达 20% 的折扣。
I want to hover a little bit on knee behind butt.
我想在屁股后面稍微用膝盖悬停。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So knee behind-
所以膝盖在后面-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Shout out Kelly Starrett.
大声喊出凯莉·斯塔雷特。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Shout out Kelly Starrett.
大声喊出凯莉·斯塔雷特。
If you think about this, folks, knee behind butt means into extension.
伙计们，如果你想一下这一点，膝盖在屁股后面意味着伸展。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the hips are opening, so to speak.
可以这么说，臀部正在打开。
I know in yoga they say hip opening means a different thing, but hip extension generally means posture is more elevated, chin away from chest, generally.
我知道在瑜伽中，他们说髋部打开意味着不同的事情，但髋部伸展通常意味着姿势更高，下巴远离胸部。
You could get knee behind butt with your chin down, but it's tougher.
你可以将膝盖放在屁股后面，下巴朝下，但这更难。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just the sternum comes up, kind of naturally puts us into external rotation, so think thumbs out to the side like the fauns, as opposed to inward.
只要胸骨抬起，就会自然地使我们向外旋转，所以像农牧神一样将拇指向外旋转，而不是向内旋转。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then when you think about the typical sitting, standing, walking, jogging pattern of everybody-
然后当你想到每个人典型的坐、站、走、慢跑模式时——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
especially if you're a commuter, doesn't matter if you're on a subway, bus, car or otherwise, or plane, you're folded in.
尤其是如果您是通勤者，无论您是乘坐地铁、公共汽车、汽车还是其他交通工具或飞机，您都可以折叠起来。
And so what I'm starting to realize is that knee behind butt, ankle elevated, sternum up, these are the hallmarks of locomotion.
所以我开始意识到膝盖在屁股后面、脚踝抬高、胸骨向上，这些都是运动的标志。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so it's interesting that walking, well, jogging in particular, seems to follow this kind of forward-folded, kind of almost falling forward kind of thing.
有趣的是，步行，特别是慢跑，似乎遵循这种向前折叠、几乎向前摔倒的动作。
I'm not trying to beat up on jogging, because I also like to jog, but I wonder if minute for minute, skipping would be a much better activity than jogging for people who want to elevate their heart rate-
我并不是想批评慢跑，因为我也喜欢慢跑，但我想知道对于那些想提高心率的人来说，跳绳是否会比慢跑更好——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
all the standard general adaptations that occur with exercise, improved insulin regulation, et cetera.
运动、改善胰岛素调节等所发生的所有标准的一般适应。
Do you think for the person who has not skipped in a while to go out and skip for a couple of minutes is the way to do it, or should they skip for a lap and then walk a lap?
你认为对于已经有一段时间没有跳绳的人来说，出去跳几分钟是正确的做法，还是应该先跳一圈，然后走一圈？
What would be the way to break into this?
打破这个的方法是什么？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, I think probably the worst thing to do is go out for a 10-mile skip.
是的，我认为最糟糕的事情可能就是出去跳 10 英里。
Don't do that.
不要那样做。
I think we start off with a 30-second skip, 30-second jog, 30-second skip, 30-second jog, or 30-second skip followed by a 30-second walk.
我认为我们从 30 秒跳跃、30 秒慢跑、30 秒跳跃、30 秒慢跑或 30 秒跳跃然后 30 秒步行开始。
And the difference is, and you'll feel this, if you think about when you skip, and we talked about this a lot yesterday.
不同之处在于，如果你想一想当你跳过时，你就会感觉到这一点，我们昨天已经讨论了很多。
I was asking you to be expressive, express yourself.
我要求你表达自己，表达自己。
Think about what your posture is and how you're holding yourself.
想想你的姿势是什么以及你如何保持自己。
You don't seem to think about those things when you jog.
当你慢跑时，你似乎不会考虑这些事情。
You just jog, and as you said, you're kind of closed and small and short, and you're just trying to get through it, right?
你只是慢跑，正如你所说，你有点封闭、小而矮，你只是想克服它，对吧？
The heart rate gets up to whatever it is, and yeah, you get some good exercise.
不管心率达到多少，是的，你得到了一些很好的锻炼。
But skipping, here's your opportunity to truly express yourself, be big and free and open and bouncy and rhythmical.
但是跳绳，这是你真正表达自己的机会，大胆、自由、开放、有活力、有节奏。
All of these things that were, at one point in our lives, pretty important to us, and we lose.
所有这些在我们生命中的某个时刻对我们来说非常重要的事情，我们都失去了。
And that is what we get from sprinting, right?
这就是我们从短跑中得到的，对吗？
The best sprinters are the ones who can express themselves truly, maximally, like totally let go.
最好的短跑运动员是那些能够真实、最大限度地表达自己的人，就像完全放手一样。
And it doesn't have to be massively powerful, like the skips that we were doing yesterday were what we call low amplitude skips, where we're just sort of skipping back and forth.
它不必非常强大，就像我们昨天所做的跳跃就是我们所说的低幅度跳跃，我们只是来回跳跃。
But yet I'm still asking you to be tall and expressive and swing and be stiff on the ground.
但我仍然要求你身材高大、富有表现力、挥杆、在地面上保持僵硬。
And I feel like there's, as I said, there's so many different benefits to this, whether it's just in the plyometric benefit, whether it's the fascial benefit, whether because this is such a cross-body coordinative aspect, there's all sorts of brain benefits to that, as you know.
正如我所说，我觉得这有很多不同的好处，无论是增强式训练的好处，还是筋膜的好处，或者因为这是跨身体协调方面的好处，所以如你所知，它对大脑有各种各样的好处。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
There's so much more benefits to skipping than there is to just jogging.
跳绳比慢跑有更多的好处。
So the on-ramp for me when I talk to people about the benefits of skipping is just to put it in their jogs.
因此，当我与人们谈论跳绳的好处时，对我来说，入门就是把它放在慢跑中。
So I was talking to one of your photographers yesterday, and he said, "How do I do this?
昨天我和你们的一位摄影师交谈，他说：“我该怎么做？
I usually jog, and I'm going, like, 10-minute mile pace." I said, "Well, next time you jog Just go for your jogs, go for about a mile or so when you're doing a typical jog, and then just go back and forth between skipping and jogging every 30 seconds or so.
我通常以 10 分钟一英里的速度慢跑。”我说，“好吧，下次你慢跑时，就去慢跑吧，当你进行典型的慢跑时，大约跑一英里左右，然后每隔 30 秒左右在跳绳和慢跑之间来回走动。
And I guarantee you that you will feel better with every skip that you do, every single one, because there's this, again, this self-organizing coordinative aspect to it where you start feeling a little bit more bouncy, a little lighter, a little bit more coordinated, a little bit more rhythmic, which feeds your jogging.
我向你保证，你所做的每一次跳跃都会让你感觉更好，因为这又是一种自组织协调的方面，你开始感觉更有弹性、更轻盈、更协调、更有节奏，这为你的慢跑提供了动力。
So for me, that's probably the best on-ramp is just to work it into your current jogs, and then from there, start getting a little bit more powerful with it, a little bit more expressive with it.
所以对我来说，最好的入门可能就是将其融入到当前的慢跑中，然后从那里开始变得更有力量，更具表现力。
Now we start driving the thigh up and back and get again a little bit more hip extension.
现在我们开始向上和向后推动大腿，并再次获得更多的髋部伸展。
Now we can start talking about skips for distance, where you're trying to say, "Okay, from here to that tree that's 50 meters away, how many steps do I need to take to get to that 50-meter away tree?" So doing things like that.
现在我们可以开始讨论距离跳跃，你想说，“好吧，从这里到 50 米外的那棵树，我需要走多少步才能到达 50 米外的那棵树？”所以做这样的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I'm fascinated by activities, both physical and mental, that facilitate the transition into a more difficult activity-
是的，我对身体和精神上的活动着迷，这些活动有助于过渡到更困难的活动 -
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
physical or mental.
身体或精神。
I started to think about this when I started working on my book in earnest.
当我开始认真写书时，我开始思考这个问题。
It's very hard to just jump into writing.
刚开始写作是非常困难的。
But I noticed that if I did some drawing, listened to a lecture while I was drawing, and I do anatomical drawings, very easy to transition into writing.
但我注意到，如果我画画，边画画边听讲座，然后画解剖图，很容易过渡到写作。
I enjoy drawing.
我喜欢画画。
I'm not trying to accomplish much with it, but it's a very natural activity for me, and just very easy to drop into a deep groove for writing for hours.
我并不想用它来完成很多事情，但这对我来说是一个非常自然的活动，而且很容易陷入深度写作几个小时的状态。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Really?
真的吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then I started talking to a musician friend of mine.
然后我开始和我的一位音乐家朋友交谈。
He's a songwriter, very accomplished songwriter, and he does the same.
他是一位歌曲作家，非常有成就的歌曲作家，他也做了同样的事情。
And then I saw a post from Joni Mitchell that she would paint before she would sing.
然后我看到乔尼·米切尔（Joni Mitchell）的一篇帖子，说她会在唱歌之前画画。
And I think these transition activities that are natural for us that don't feel as constricted by distance over time or sometimes I put my drawings on social media, but they're really for me.
我认为这些过渡活动对我们来说是很自然的，随着时间的推移，它们不会因为距离而受到限制，或者有时我会把我的画放在社交媒体上，但它们确实适合我。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're a way of kind of thinking about the biology from a circuit standpoint.
它们是从电路角度思考生物学的一种方式。
It is very personal and kind of abstract.
这是非常个人化和抽象的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As you talk about skipping, it seems a little bit the same-
当你谈论跳过时，似乎有点相同——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where skipping, we're not necessarily trying to become the fastest skipper in the world or beat our yesterday's skipping time.
在跳绳时，我们不一定要成为世界上最快的跳绳者或打破昨天的跳绳时间。
We're just trying to skip with more, as you said, more expression, more enjoyment.
正如你所说，我们只是想跳过更多内容，更多表达，更多享受。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But perhaps it sounds like indeed it can help transition into a faster gait with what we're doing for jogging or for running or transition us right into sprinting.
但也许听起来它确实可以帮助我们在慢跑或跑步时过渡到更快的步态，或者直接过渡到短跑。
And I think that these transition points for physical and mental activities are very important because these days there are so many tools and protocols, dare I say-
我认为这些身体和精神活动的过渡点非常重要，因为现在有很多工具和协议，我敢说-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and people start to feel like, "Oh, I have to do all of these things?
人们开始觉得，“哦，我必须做所有这些事情吗？
How would I do this?" Right?
我该怎么做呢？”正确的？
"How am I supposed to meditate and get sunlight and do all-- I'm already exercising a ton, now you want me to skip?" The way you describe it is completely different.
“我该如何冥想、沐浴阳光以及做所有事情——我已经进行了大量的锻炼，现在你想让我跳过吗？”你描述的方式完全不同。
It's saying, no, you're still doing your "cardio," quote unquote, but maybe you do your zone two cardio and you incorporate some skipping, which will make your zone two faster for you.
它的意思是，不，你仍然在做你的“有氧运动”，但也许你在做你的第二区有氧运动，并且你加入了一些跳跃，这将使你的第二区速度更快。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or your high-intensity interval training, you'll feel more pliable-
或者你的高强度间歇训练，你会感觉更加柔韧-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
more explosive.
更具爆发力。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, I think that's part of it.
是的，我认为这是其中的一部分。
I think step one is incorporating in so you can actually be comfortable skipping.
我认为第一步是融入，这样你就可以轻松地跳过。
And step two is now can we add a little bit more speed, force, velocity to that skip where it becomes in and of itself a workout, where you're skipping as hard as you can for 50 meters and walking back and doing that 10 to 15 times.
第二步是现在我们可以为跳跃增加一点速度、力量和速度吗？它本身就是一种锻炼，你尽可能努力地跳跃 50 米，然后走回来，做 10 到 15 次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Would you consider that a solid workout for skipping?
您认为这是一项可靠的跳绳锻炼吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
That would be a great skipping workout.
这将是一次很棒的跳绳锻炼。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Skipping 50 meters-
跳绳50米——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
walking back.
走回来。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Doing that 10 to 15 times.
这样做10到15次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Because that is safe.
因为那样是安全的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
If you warm up.
如果你热身的话。
I'm not saying go out and do a maximal effort skip for 50 meters without doing a warm-up.
我并不是说不做热身就出去尽最大努力跳 50 米。
Do a good warm-up first that includes some low amplitude skips and maybe some jogs and some stretches.
首先做好热身，包括一些低幅度的跳跃，也许还有一些慢跑和一些伸展运动。
Do that for 10 or 15 minutes, and then do some maximal amplitude skips for over 50 meters.
这样做 10 或 15 分钟，然后进行 50 米以上的最大振幅跳跃。
That's a great workout in and of itself.
这本身就是一项很棒的锻炼。
A lot of really beneficial plyometric work being done there.
那里正在进行许多真正有益的增强式训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Let's talk about concentric and eccentric aspects of running and skipping.
我们来谈谈跑步和跳绳的向心和离心方面。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So folks, concentric generally associated with the lifting phase, although sometimes it's the pulling phase if it's a pull-up, and then eccentric would be the lowering phase of some movement.
所以各位，同心通常与举升阶段相关，尽管有时如果是引体向上，则属于拉动阶段，然后偏心则与某些运动的降低阶段相关。
In running, where's the concentric, where's the eccentric?
跑步时，哪里是同心，哪里是偏心？
For the uninformed, if you could just tell us.
对于不知情的人，如果您能告诉我们就好了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Well, in running, concentric is pretty important because most of running is pretty concentric dominant.
嗯，在跑步中，同心非常重要，因为大多数跑步都是以同心为主。
You're on the ground for quite a long time, and you push behind your center of mass for quite a long time.
你在地面上呆了很长一段时间，并且你在你的重心后面推了很长一段时间。
In striding and sprinting, which are the two faster gaits, so you've got walking, jogging, running, striding, and sprinting.
跨步和冲刺是两种更快的步态，因此可以分为步行、慢跑、跑步、跨步和冲刺。
Striding and sprinting, which is upwards of, so striding if you think about being 75% to 90% or 80% to 95% of your maximum sprint speed.
跨步和冲刺，这是向上的，所以如果您考虑达到最大冲刺速度的 75% 到 90% 或 80% 到 95%，请跨步。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's called striding?
这也叫跨步？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
That's called striding.
这就是所谓的跨步。
And then sprinting is anything above that, where actually it's purely, truly maximal.
然后冲刺就是高于此的任何东西，实际上它是纯粹的、真正的最大极限。
As we said, these are different gait patterns entirely.
正如我们所说，这些是完全不同的步态模式。
Those sprinting and striding is almost entirely eccentric.
那些冲刺和大步几乎完全是古怪的。
Entirely.
完全。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're braking?
你在刹车吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It's all braking.
都是刹车。
It's all braking forces.
都是制动力。
It's how well do you handle those braking forces?
问题是你处理制动力的能力如何？
If you do not handle those braking forces well, you're not fast.
如果你不能很好地处理这些制动力，你的速度就不会很快。
And any concentric force ability or concentric force capacity is just not a differentiator at elite speed.
在精英速度下，任何同心力能力或同心力能力都不是区别因素。
In fact, it seems to be reverse.
事实上，似乎是相反的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So we did a lot of testing through the '90s when I was up in Calgary.
因此，当我在卡尔加里的 90 年代，我们做了很多测试。
I was working for the Canadian Sports Center in Calgary, starting in 1994 or so, and was there for a long time.
大约从 1994 年开始，我在卡尔加里的加拿大体育中心工作了很长时间。
And because 27 different national teams were based there and all of the University of Calgary sports teams were also there, we could test out the yin yang for hundreds of athletes every single day.
由于 27 个不同的国家队都驻扎在那里，卡尔加里大学的所有运动队也都在那里，因此我们每天可以为数百名运动员测试阴阳。
And one of the things that we tested was concentric, isometric, and eccentric force capacities, and which ones actually related to being actually good at your sport And almost every single sport, the concentric force capacity, and you pick the one, whether it's peak, whether it's rate of force application, whether it's time to peak, concentric force capacity just did not at all differentiate between the elite performers in that sport and the sub-elite performers in that sport.
我们测试的其中一项是同心力、等距力和偏心力能力，以及哪些实际上与真正擅长您的运动有关。几乎每一项运动，同心力能力，您都可以选择一项，无论是峰值，无论是用力速率，无论是达到峰值的时间，同心力能力根本无法区分该运动中的精英运动员和次精英运动员。
But eccentric did all across the board.
但怪人却全面地做到了这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm absolutely struck by this stride comes before sprint thing.
我对冲刺之前的这一进步感到非常震惊。
And I'm remembering back to cross country where they say, "We're going to do a stride workout at the end of a run."
我记得回到越野赛时他们说：“我们将在跑步结束时进行跨步训练。”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We get back to the track at school, and you do some strides.
我们回到学校的跑道上，你迈出了一些步伐。
And I'm just chuckling to myself because I always would tell myself in subsequent years, "Okay, I'm going to sprint, but I'm going to sprint at 50% of my all-out speed."
我只是暗自窃笑，因为在接下来的几年里我总是告诉自己，“好吧，我要冲刺，但我会以全力冲刺的 50% 的速度冲刺。”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I always think of all-out speed for me as somebody's chasing me with a syringe filled with poison.
所以我总是认为我全力以赴的速度就像有人拿着装满毒药的注射器追赶我。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I've got to get away.
我必须离开。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's all-out speed.
这就是全力以赴的速度。
I don't want to die.
我不想死。
So 15% of that, 60, 70, and I'm measuring it subjectively.
所以其中 15%，60、70，我是主观衡量的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm not doing this by heart rates or anything like that.
我不是通过心率或类似的东西来做到这一点。
And indeed, anytime I've done 100% all out, like in my mind imagining someone trying to really take my life and I'm running all out, I end up with this lower back thing because you get hurt.
事实上，每当我全力以赴时，就像在我的脑海里想象有人试图真正夺走我的生命而我已经全力以赴时，我最终会遇到腰部问题，因为你受伤了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But striding sounds like something that people could work up to.
但大跨步听起来像是人们可以努力做到的事情。
How do you know after doing the skip workout that you described-
在进行了您描述的跳跃锻炼后，您怎么知道-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that you're, quote-unquote, "ready to stride-"
你是，引用-不引用，“准备好大步迈进-”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and start doing a stride workout?
并开始进行跨步锻炼？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I should mention that these workouts, because we did one yesterday, you finish them feeling great.
我应该提到这些训练，因为我们昨天做了一次，你完成这些训练时感觉很棒。
This is an aspect of exercise that I think most people don't talk about unfortunately, that this leave-it-all-on-the-mat, you take every set to failure in the gym, or these long runs where you're just shredded, they're not great for teaching people how to be healthy because people are exhausted afterwards, they're tired, they overtrain quickly.
不幸的是，我认为大多数人都不会谈论锻炼的一个方面，这种把一切都放在垫子上的做法，你在健身房里把每一组都做到力竭，或者这些长跑让你筋疲力尽，它们不太适合教人们如何保持健康，因为人们在赛后就会精疲力竭，他们很累，他们很快就会过度训练。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then people say there's no such thing as over-training.
然后人们说不存在过度训练这样的事情。
It's like, yeah, if you can sleep all day, eat all day, and your profession is to do this.
就像，是的，如果你可以整天睡觉，整天吃饭，而你的职业就是这样做。
But there is such a thing as having a stressful life and wanting to be healthy and exercising and trying to incorporate that in a way that feeds the rest of your life.
但是，生活压力很大，想要保持健康，想要锻炼身体，并试图将其融入到你的余生中。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think these workouts that we did, the workout we did yesterday, excuse me, left me feeling posturally, energetically, mood wise, just feeling great.
我认为我们所做的这些锻炼，我们昨天所做的锻炼，对不起，让我感觉姿势、精力充沛、情绪明智，感觉很棒。
I slept great last night, felt great this morning, had a great workout in the gym, as I mentioned earlier.
正如我之前提到的，我昨晚睡得很好，今天早上感觉很好，在健身房锻炼得很好。
So I want to encourage people to give this a try, and in doing that, I want to give them a roadmap.
所以我想鼓励人们尝试一下，在这样做的过程中，我想给他们一个路线图。
So a warmup of 10 to 15 minutes, 50 meter or so skip.
所以热身10到15分钟，跳50米左右。
Could they do it on lawn, dirt, or concrete?
他们能在草坪、泥土或混凝土上做到这一点吗？
Does it matter?
有关系吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
No, it doesn't.
不，事实并非如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Great.
伟大的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
If you've got a really flat grass-
如果你有一片非常平坦的草地-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
perfect.
完美。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
But if you don't and do it on concrete, no problem.
但如果你不这样做并且在混凝土上做，没问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, so basically no cost to this except a little bit of time and attention.
好吧，除了一点时间和注意力之外，基本上没有任何成本。
10 to 15 of those, you have 50 meters out, walk back, repeat-
其中 10 到 15 个，你有 50 米，往回走，重复——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
after a warmup.
热身后。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And if you need a little bit longer recovery, then the probably 90 seconds it takes to walk back-
如果你需要更长一点的恢复时间，那么走回来大概需要 90 秒——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
take it.
拿走它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Not a big deal.
没什么大不了的。
The quality here is the determining factor.
这里的质量是决定因素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
As you said, you're not trying to get really fatigued from plyometric work.
正如你所说，你并不想因为增强式训练而变得真正疲劳。
This is a plyometric session.
这是增强式训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
You want to be kind of fresh going into each one.
你想要在每一件事上都保持新鲜感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And that's going to take, for most people, doing a maximal skip over the course of 50 meters, 90 seconds is about enough.
对于大多数人来说，最大程度地跳跃 50 米，90 秒就足够了。
But if you're really explosive and you're a really good skipper, it might be three minutes.
但如果你真的很有爆发力并且你是一位非常优秀的船长，那么可能只需要三分钟。
That's fine.
没关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
As you said, you want to feel good at the end of that.
正如你所说，你希望在结束时感觉良好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
You don't want to be beasted at the end of that.
你不想在最后被打败。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Now, if you can do it where if we transition, say, from the skips and you can stride really well, and if you can stride really well, maybe you can sprint really well.
现在，如果你能做到这一点，如果我们从跳跃过渡，你就可以很好地跨步，如果你可以很好地跨步，也许你可以很好地冲刺。
Really well.
真的很好。
That doesn't necessarily mean that you shouldn't be tired at the end of the session, but the quality of the movement has to be the governor there.
这并不一定意味着你在训练结束时不应该感到疲倦，但运动的质量必须是那里的管理者。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Not the capacity.
不是容量。
Not I got to get the work done, and I don't care how that work looks or what it looks like, I just got to get it done.
不是我必须完成工作，我不在乎这项工作看起来如何或是什么样子，我只是必须完成它。
No. With high intense work, with sprint work, your governor is always the quality of the work.
不。对于高强度的工作，对于冲刺的工作，你的调速者始终是工作的质量。
What does it look like?
它看起来像什么？
What does it feel like?
感觉如何？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it's a lot like resistance training in that way.
所以这很像这种方式的阻力训练。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Always quality.
始终保持品质。
So how does one transition into striding, and what does that look like?
那么，一个人如何过渡到跨步，那是什么样子的呢？
This is saying, "Okay, I'm going to sprint, but it's not a sprint because I'm going to hold back a bit." But how do you hold back and still have the expressive part?
这就是说，“好吧，我要冲刺，但这不是冲刺，因为我要稍微推迟一下。”但如何才能克制住并保留表达力呢？
Because the expressive part-
因为表达部分——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it's a little hard to describe in words, but yesterday you were encouraging Rob and I to get us tall with our posture as if we were being pulled up by a string from our heads, and it has a profound psychological effect.
有点难以用语言来描述，但昨天你鼓励罗布和我用我们的姿势来站高，就好像我们被一根绳子从头上拉起来一样，这产生了深远的心理影响。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then you just feel your body opening up in natural movement.
然后你就会感觉到你的身体在自然的运动中打开。
You don't have to think about coordinating the hand lift.
您不必考虑协调提手的问题。
It's just you're in-
只是你在——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like this full bowing out.
像这样完全鞠躬。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's really wonderful.
真是太棒了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
If we describe the difference between all of the gait patterns, just through the amount of space that you take up on the planet.
如果我们仅通过您在地球上占据的空间大小来描述所有步态模式之间的差异。
So when you walk, it's a small space, and when you jog, you're taking up a little bit more space, and when you run, it's a bit more space.
所以当你走路时，这是一个很小的空间，当你慢跑时，你会占用更多的空间，当你跑步时，它会占用更多的空间。
When you start to stride, it's more space again.
当你开始大步迈进时，空间又变得更大了。
And then when you sprint, you're up here, and you're being maximally expressive.
然后当你冲刺时，你就到了这里，并且你的表现力达到了极限。
So just think about it from that perspective.
所以就从这个角度去思考吧。
The other part is jogging and running typically happens behind your center of mass.
另一部分是慢跑，跑步通常发生在你的重心后面。
You crash onto the ground, and you push back.
你摔倒在地上，然后向后推。
You have this propulsive phase.
你有这个推进阶段。
There's not a lot of a breaking phase here.
这里没有太多的中断阶段。
There's a long propulsive phase that happens with the foot pushing back behind the center of mass.
当脚向后推到质心后面时，会发生一个很长的推进阶段。
Striding and sprinting happens in front of the center of mass.
跨步和冲刺发生在质心前面。
There's actually a longer eccentric phase where you drive a lot of force into the ground.
实际上有一个较长的偏心阶段，您将大量的力施加到地面上。
It's in front of the center of mass, and then you propel yourself off, and it's a very short propulsive phase.
它位于质心前面，然后你将自己推开，这是一个非常短的推进阶段。
So think about it that way.
所以这样想吧。
So it's bigger shape, and it's primarily more in front.
所以它的形状更大，而且主要是更靠前。
And it's also, as I said, and this is important You can't sprint, and most of the people that are listening to this cannot sprint.
正如我所说，这也是很重要的，你不能冲刺，大多数正在听这个的人也不能冲刺。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Are you telling us to not sprint?
你是在告诉我们不要冲刺吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
No, no. What I'm saying is you do not have that strategy available to you.
不，不。我的意思是你没有可用的策略。
Most of us, everybody who's listening to this, almost everybody will be able to walk.
我们大多数人，每个正在听这个的人，几乎每个人都能够走路。
And if you can walk, as you said, you could probably jog.
如果你能走路，正如你所说，你可能可以慢跑。
And most of the people on the planet can walk, jog, and maybe they can run.
地球上的大多数人都可以走路、慢跑，也许还可以跑步。
Most people on the planet can't stride.
地球上的大多数人都无法跨步。
They can't get any faster than 75% of what their capacity is because they just can't do that anymore.
他们的速度无法超过其容量的 75%，因为他们再也无法这样做了。
If you're a kid, you can do that.
如果你是个孩子，你可以这样做。
You can run, you can stride along all day.
你可以跑步，你可以大步走一整天。
But you get to a certain point where our tissues and our joint systems, and we just do not have the capacity to run that fast, safely.
但当我们的组织和关节系统达到一定程度时，我们就没有能力跑得那么快、安全。
And we definitely don't have it when we're sprinting.
当我们冲刺时，我们肯定没有它。
And the difference here is when you're striding, it's essentially a pretty simple, traditional spring mass system.
这里的区别在于，当您大步迈进时，它本质上是一个非常简单的传统弹簧质量系统。
The body acts as a spring.
身体就像弹簧一样。
Just whether it's 50% on the front side, 50% on the back side, you hit and you bounce off.
无论是50%在正面，还是50%在背面，你击球后都会反弹。
You hit and you bounce off.
你击中然后弹开。
Where sprinting is a little bit different.
短跑有点不同。
This is the work of Dr. Ken Clark, who's a good friend of mine.
这是肯·克拉克博士的作品，他是我的好朋友。
He published this in, I think in 2018, '19.
他发表了这篇文章，我想是在 2018 年，'19。
It's called a two-mass system, where the body's not acting as a spring.
这被称为双质量系统，其中身体不充当弹簧。
There's a secondary mass of the shank and the foot that's contributing to up to about 8% of the total force through contact.
小腿和足部的次要质量通过接触贡献了约 8% 的总力。
So this elite sprinter is hitting the ground so hard that there's another mass that's added to the spring.
因此，这位优秀的短跑运动员撞击地面的力度如此之大，以至于弹簧上又增加了一个质量。
And that's what I'm saying, that's not available to you because you can't move your limbs fast enough, and you don't have the range of motion that's big enough to be able to get that sort of velocity.
这就是我所说的，这对你来说是不可用的，因为你无法足够快地移动你的四肢，并且你没有足够大的运动范围来获得这种速度。
There's a dozen players in the NFL that can do that.
NFL 中有十几名球员可以做到这一点。
Every elite sprinter is actually a sprinter.
每个精英短跑运动员实际上都是短跑运动员。
Most every other athlete in most every other sport can't actually sprint.
大多数其他运动项目中的大多数运动员实际上都无法短跑。
They're operating as spring mass.
它们以弹簧质量的形式运行。
They don't have that secondary mass because they can't move their limbs fast enough.
他们没有次要质量，因为他们无法足够快地移动四肢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When Dr. Peter Attia was on this podcast and elsewhere, he talked about one of the major causes of death, mostly in older people, is they'll fall, they'll be immobile, they'll catch some sort of infection related to contact with the bed or post-surgical lack of circulation, and that's what takes them out.
当彼得·阿提亚博士在这个播客和其他地方时，他谈到了死亡的主要原因之一，主要是老年人的死亡，是他们会跌倒，他们会不动，他们会感染某种与床接触或术后血液循环不足有关的感染，这就是他们死亡的原因。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I was shocked to learn this, right?
得知这个消息我很震惊，对吗？
I thought it would be a heart attack or-
我以为这会是心脏病发作或者——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
cerebrovascular disease or that instead.
脑血管疾病或者其他疾病。
But that led to this whole notion that I think is gaining more popularity nowadays, that part of longevity is maintaining things like grip strength, one's ability to jump and land, and jumping and landing is eccentric control.
但这导致了我认为现在越来越流行的整个概念，即长寿的一部分是保持握力、跳跃和着陆的能力，而跳跃和着陆是离心控制。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
My mom's turning 80 this year, and she's fortunately in very good health.
我妈妈今年80岁了，幸运的是她身体很好。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Good.
很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
My dad's already 80.
我爸爸已经80岁了。
He was on this podcast, and for anyone that saw that, he's clearly in very good health.
他参加了这个播客，对于任何看到这个播客的人来说，他显然健康状况非常好。
But I worry about them, and I worry mostly about a step down off a curb, a step going down a stairwell that is not controlled, and then a slip, and then a fall, and then the break, and then the immobility, and then the sequence that Attia and others have referred to.
但我担心他们，我担心的主要是从路边走下来，从不受控制的楼梯间走下来，然后滑倒，然后跌倒，然后摔倒，然后一动不动，然后是阿蒂亚和其他人提到的顺序。
Would skipping be a good activity for people in their 60s, 70s, or 80s to undertake carefully as a way to learn eccentric control?
对于 60 多岁、70 多岁或 80 多岁的人来说，跳绳是否是一项值得认真进行的良好活动，作为学习离心控制的一种方式？
Because I'll be honest, I've seen some wonderful, inspiring videos of people in their 70s and 80s jumping off of boxes, doing plyo type work in the gym.
老实说，我看过一些精彩的、鼓舞人心的视频，视频中 70 多岁和 80 多岁的人从箱子上跳下来，在健身房里做强化训练。
I don't know many folks in their 70s and 80s who are going to embark on that.
我不知道有多少 70 多岁和 80 多岁的人会开始这样做。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But you can skip kind of small skips, then you can do larger skips.
但你可以跳过一些小的跳过，然后你可以做更大的跳过。
You can skip anywhere.
你可以跳过任何地方。
It's free.
它是免费的。
If you approach it carefully, you probably don't even need a trainer.
如果你仔细地对待它，你可能甚至不需要培训师。
There's some videos now of you having us skip, and-
现在有一些你让我们跳过的视频，而且-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
here I'm inspired to start a skipping movement with you, for all these reasons.
出于所有这些原因，我在这里受到启发，与您一起开始跳绳运动。
You don't even need a piece of equipment.
您甚至不需要一件设备。
Could probably even do it barefoot on grass if you couldn't afford shoes, right?
如果你买不起鞋子，甚至可以赤脚在草地上进行，对吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What are your thoughts on folks who are in the 60 and up club-
您对 60 岁及以上俱乐部的人有何看法？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
skipping?
跳过？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, I think you've nailed it.
是的，我想你已经成功了。
I think that is so important.
我认为这非常重要。
That eccentric control or the eccentric capacity is the one that we really lose.
我们真正失去的是那种古怪的控制力或古怪的能力。
The ability to handle ourselves eccentrically, we don't do that work anymore.
能够以古怪的方式处理自己，我们不再做那样的工作了。
Everything that we do is concentric in nature.
我们所做的一切本质上都是同心的。
And it's not just elite sport.
这不仅仅是精英运动。
I said before that the differentiator is always in the eccentric force capacities in elite sport.
我之前说过，精英运动中的差异化因素始终在于离心力的能力。
Also in us, in gen pop, we lose the ability to apply eccentric force, whether it's fast or maximal.
同样在我们身上，在一代流行音乐中，我们失去了施加偏心力的能力，无论是快速的还是最大的。
So 100%, I think it's so important.
所以100%，我认为这非常重要。
My dad was an elite athlete when he was younger and has probably averaged four days a week running for almost his entire life.
我父亲年轻时是一名精英运动员，几乎一生中平均每周跑步四天。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Good for him.
对他有好处。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
He's 78.
他78岁了。
In 2019, he ran the New York City Marathon, ran a 5:02.
2019年，他参加了纽约马拉松，跑出了5分02秒的成绩。
So he's at 74 or 73 years old.
所以他已经74或73岁了。
And he doesn't do that anymore, but he still runs four days a week, and he runs about 20 to 25 miles.
现在他不再这样做了，但他仍然每周跑步四天，跑大约 20 到 25 英里。
And two of those days are skipping sessions where he walks 30 seconds, he skips for 30 seconds, and then he strides as fast as he can, as fast as his capacity will allow, for 30 seconds, and then he walks, and then he skips, and then he strides, and he walks.
其中有两天是跳过训练，他步行 30 秒，他跳过 30 秒，然后他尽可能快地迈步，尽可能快地在他的能力允许的范围内，持续 30 秒，然后他走路，然后他跳过，然后他迈步，他走路。
And it's so key.
这非常关键。
It really is.
确实如此。
For me, the ability to express yourself maximally through running, and I've already said I don't feel like most people can do this.
对我来说，就是通过跑步最大限度地表达自己的能力，我已经说过，我觉得大多数人都做不到这一点。
I don't know if there is a better single metric as a measurement for Whatever word you want to use here, vitality or health, then the ability to safely express maximal speed of you as you as an individual.
我不知道是否有更好的单一指标来衡量您在这里使用的任何词，活力或健康，然后是安全地表达您作为个人的最大速度的能力。
You choose VO2 max, you choose all of these different things that you might come up with.
你选择最大摄氧量，你选择所有你可能想出的不同的东西。
I don't feel like any of them are as good as the ability to just run maximally.
我觉得它们中的任何一个都不如最大限度地跑步的能力那么好。
So let's start with that.
那么让我们从这个开始吧。
If we feel like that is important, and you can argue whether it's the most important or the 10th most important, we know it's important.
如果我们觉得这很重要，并且你可以争论它是最重要的还是第十重要的，我们就知道它很重要。
If we know that's important, how do we get there?
如果我们知道这很重要，那么我们如何做到这一点？
And as you said, I think skipping is the way.
正如你所说，我认为跳绳是正确的方法。
So I'm on board with the skipping movement.
所以我加入了跳绳运动。
Let's get everybody skipping because it is, as I said, this is your ability to be plyometric, to work on those eccentric force capacities and move in a way in which you can actually express yourself again.
让我们让每个人都跳绳，因为正如我所说，这是你增强式训练的能力，锻炼那些离心力的能力，并以一种你可以真正再次表达自己的方式移动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's this peculiarity to anything related to health and public health in particular.
尤其是与健康和公共卫生相关的任何事物都具有这种特殊性。
For instance, a colleague of mine at Stanford, Dr. David Spiegel, he's our vice chair of psychiatry, and he and his father actually founded this area of psychiatry, which is basically hypnosis for the treatment of trauma, for pain relief, for smoking cessation.
例如，我在斯坦福大学的一位同事大卫·斯皮格尔博士，他是我们精神病学的副主席，他和他的父亲实际上创立了这个精神病学领域，基本上是用于治疗创伤、缓解疼痛和戒烟的催眠。
And there are tremendously good data to support it as a practice.
并且有非常好的数据支持它作为一种实践。
It's actually approved by the American Psychiatric Association, one of only four, I think, behavioral things, EMDR, cognitive behavioral therapy, hypnosis, and I think there's another.
它实际上得到了美国精神病学协会的批准，我认为这是仅有的四个疗法之一，行为学、EMDR、认知行为疗法、催眠，我认为还有另一个。
In any case, the problem, it's called hypnosis, and people hear hypnosis-
无论如何，这个问题，它被称为催眠，人们听到催眠——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and their mind goes to balking and squawking like a chicken on a stage.
他们的思想就像舞台上的小鸡一样犹豫不决和嘎嘎叫。
This is why we refer to deliberate respiration as opposed to breathwork in our studies, our clinical trials on that, which David and I have published, et cetera.
这就是为什么我们在我们的研究、大卫和我发表的临床试验等中提到刻意呼吸而不是呼吸。
And it's not euphemism.
这不是委婉说法。
The issue is the name is a separator often, and that's a shame when there's a practice that's very valuable.
问题是名称通常是分隔符，当有一种非常有价值的做法时，这是一种耻辱。
Yoga nidra, non-sleep deep rest.
瑜伽休息术，非睡眠深度休息。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have tremendous respect for yoga nidra and all of its early creators, but the language is a separator.
我非常尊重瑜伽休息术及其所有早期创造者，但语言是一个分隔符。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
And there's a public health mission that to me is more important than the naming.
对我来说，公共卫生使命比命名更重要。
Just say that, and I'll take the heat for it with no guilt whatsoever.
只要这么说，我就会毫无愧疚地承受这一切的压力。
Skipping, unless it's skipping rope, has this connotation of childlike activity, let's just be honest.
老实说，跳绳，除非是跳绳，否则就具有童趣活动的含义。
And adults doing childlike behavior, while not necessarily a problem in its own right, look at all these adults with social media accounts acting like children, and the children acting like adults, different discussion entirely, but what if we were to give it a different name, not with the intention of pretending it's not skipping-
成年人的孩子般的行为，虽然本身不一定是一个问题，但看看所有这些拥有社交媒体帐户的成年人表现得像孩子，孩子们的表现也像成年人，完全不同的讨论，但如果我们给它一个不同的名称，而不是假装它没有跳过-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but to relieve people's guilt and shame about doing it?
但为了减轻人们这样做的罪恶感和羞耻感？
Is it bounding?
它有界限吗？
Bounding is a little bit more nondescript for most people.
对于大多数人来说，边界有点难以描述。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm having this conversation with you openly in public here-
我正在这里公开地与你进行对话-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in front of many, many people, to illustrate a couple of points.
当着很多很多人的面，来说明几点。
One is that the name oftentimes people are like, "I'm not going to skip down the street." But there's so much value to this that I think it'd be a real shame to lose the opportunity to have it wick out to many, many millions of people-
一是人们常常会说，“我不会在街上蹦蹦跳跳。”但这有如此大的价值，我认为如果失去让数百万人受益的机会，那将是一种真正的耻辱——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It-
它——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because it's called skipping.
因为这叫跳绳。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
It's plyometrics.
这是增强式训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's plyometrics.
这是增强式训练。
Great.
伟大的。
Love it.
爱它。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And it is a...
这是一个...
Bounding is left to right.
边界是从左到右。
So you go left, right, left, right, left, right.
所以你向左，向右，向左，向右，向左，向右。
Bounding is really, really difficult, extremely challenging.
弹跳真的非常非常困难，极具挑战性。
Skipping is a regression from bounding.
跳跃是对边界的回归。
So if you can't bound, if you can bound, great.
所以，如果你不能绑定，如果你能绑定，那就太好了。
Go and do some bounding.
去做一些跳跃吧。
Chances are, if you can't sprint, you can't bound.
如果你不能冲刺，你很可能就无法跳跃。
It's really, really hard to do real, true, high-quality bounding.
做真实、真实、高质量的绑定真的非常非常困难。
We can all skip.
我们都可以跳过。
So look at it that way.
所以这样看吧。
This is plyometrics.
这是增强式训练。
This is just your most simple, and probably for most people, your most effective means of giving your body a plyometric activity.
这只是最简单的，而且可能对大多数人来说，也是最有效的让你的身体进行增强式活动的方法。
How else are you going to do it?
你还打算怎么做呢？
You're jumping onto the box, not a plyometric.
你跳到箱子上，而不是增强式训练。
That's all concentric.
这都是同心的。
It's basically useless.
基本上是没啥用的。
It's a waste of time.
这是浪费时间。
Let's find eccentric things to do.
让我们找些稀奇古怪的事情来做吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And what is your best eccentric or the one that is the simplest, the one, as you said, we spend entire childhood doing, it's familiar to us.
你最古怪的事情是什么，或者最简单的事情是什么，正如你所说，我们整个童年都在做的事情，我们很熟悉。
There's something innate in this.
这里面有一些与生俱来的东西。
There really is.
确实有。
Skipping.
跳绳。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So just think about it as being a plyometric.
因此，只需将其视为增强式训练即可。
I'm going to do my plyos today.
我今天要做我的 plyos。
And by the way, this isn't something that I've just made up.
顺便说一句，这不是我刚刚编造出来的。
There is not a sprint group on the planet that don't skip.
地球上没有一个冲刺小组是不跳绳的。
Every single sprinter skips, every single one of them, because of the importance of this specific gait pattern.
由于这种特定步态模式的重要性，每一位短跑运动员都会跳绳。
It's really important.
这真的很重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Thank you.
谢谢。
And you also saved me from trying to find a name that plyometric.
你也让我免于寻找增强式训练的名字。
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
Last year, I became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
去年，在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我成为了 Function 成员。
Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health.
Function 提供 100 多项高级实验室测试，为您提供整个身体健康状况的关键快照。
This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more.
此快照为您提供有关心脏健康、激素健康、免疫功能、营养水平等方面的见解。
They've also recently added tests for toxins, such as BPA exposure from harmful plastics, and tests for PFAS, or forever chemicals.
他们最近还增加了毒素测试，例如有害塑料中的 BPA 暴露，以及 PFAS 或永久化学物质的测试。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas.
Function 不仅提供对您的身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标记物的测试，而且还分析这些结果并提供相关领域专家的顶级医生的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量升高。
Function not only helped me detect that but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, I'd been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification.
功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，还提供了如何最好地降低汞含量的见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼消费，我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力多吃绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒。
And I should say, by taking a second Function test, that approach worked.
我应该说，通过进行第二次功能测试，这种方法奏效了。
Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important.
全面的血液检测至关重要。
There's so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test.
有很多与您的心理和身体健康相关的事情只能通过血液检查来检测。
The problem is blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated.
问题是血液检测一直非常昂贵且复杂。
In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost.
相比之下，Function 的简单性和成本水平给我留下了深刻的印象。
It is very affordable.
这是非常实惠的。
As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
因此，我决定加入他们的科学顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Function，可以访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman Podcast listeners.
Function 目前有超过 250,000 人的等候名单，但他们正在为 Huberman 播客听众提供早期访问服务。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
One thing That people will immediately realize when they go out and skip, when they do their plyometric skipping.
当人们出去跳绳、进行增强式跳绳时，他们会立即意识到一件事。
That's a little bit hard to understand just from hearing us have this conversation, but just trust me on this.
光是听我们的对话就有点难以理解，但请相信我。
There were two things that are very surprising and immensely positive, at least two things.
有两件事非常令人惊讶且非常积极，至少有两件事。
One is this expressive component and the way it reshapes your psychology and your mood.
一是这种表达成分及其重塑你的心理和情绪的方式。
I want to set that aside, but make sure we return to that.
我想把它放在一边，但请确保我们回到这个话题。
The other is the cross-body coordination of movement.
另一个是动作的跨身体协调性。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The fact that one knee is back toward the butt on one side and the opposite arm is raised up, just naturally as you skip.
事实上，一侧膝盖向后朝向臀部，另一侧手臂抬起，就像你跳绳时一样自然。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In fact, if you're wondering now, "Oh, goodness, do I actually know how to skip?" That occurred to me a couple times yesterday because I had many cameras on me.
事实上，如果你现在想知道，“哦，天哪，我真的知道如何跳过吗？”昨天我曾多次想到过这种情况，因为我身上有很多摄像机。
I thought, "Do I still remember how to skip?" I'd been skipping the night before in preparation.
我想：“我还记得如何跳过吗？”为了准备，我前一天晚上就逃课了。
I didn't know we were going to skip, but I've always worked some skips in if nobody's looking.
我不知道我们要跳过，但我总是在没人注意的情况下跳过一些内容。
I'm a skip-in-private kind of guy.
我是一个私下里不爱说话的人。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Until now.
直到现在。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Until now.
直到现在。
Now I skip with pride-
现在我骄傲地跳过——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
There you go
就这样吧
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in public.
在公共场合。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Plyometrics.
增强式训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I will.
我会的。
Plyometric in public, that's right.
在公共场合进行增强式训练，没错。
But one thing that was interesting, I would think, okay, we'd get back after walking, I'd think, "Okay, we're going to skip again.
但有一件有趣的事情，我会想，好吧，我们走路后会回来，我会想，“好吧，我们要再次跳过。
How do I do this?" It's basically I would think about lunging, kind of a fast lunge out, and then it automatically would put me into that motion of skipping.
我该怎么做？”基本上我会想到弓步，一种快速的弓步，然后它会自动让我进入跳跃的动作。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But this cross-body coordination is incredible for purposes of motor neuron coordination across the body, for the fascial component.
但对于整个身体的运动神经元协调（对于筋膜部分）而言，这种跨身体协调是令人难以置信的。
Could we talk a little bit more about cross-body coordination?
我们能多谈谈跨身体协调吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I'd like at some point to talk about sprinting a little bit, because even if people aren't going to sprint, this idea that when we're sprinting, we're not just turning over our legs faster.
因为我想在某个时候谈谈短跑，因为即使人们不打算短跑，这个想法是，当我们短跑时，我们不仅仅是更快地翻转我们的腿。
Of course, the arms are pumping, but the arms and legs are coordinated in a very interesting way, that the forces are actually running like an X from across from one shoulder down the leg and from the other shoulder, which is going to sound very complicated to people, but you'll explain it.
当然，手臂在抽动，但手臂和腿以一种非常有趣的方式协调，力量实际上像 X 一样从一个肩膀穿过腿，再从另一个肩膀延伸，这对人们来说听起来很复杂，但你会解释它。
So cross-body coordination.
所以跨身体协调。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When we walk, we do this.
当我们走路时，我们会这样做。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people don't.
有些人则不然。
They're kind of robotic.
他们有点像机器人。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But most people flow their arms as they walk.
但大多数人走路时都会挥动手臂。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
If we were to put a camera above the Earth and look down on everybody, you would see this very distinctly at every single gait, starting with walking.
如果我们把相机放在地球上方并俯视每个人，你会在每一个步态中清楚地看到这一点，从走路开始。
We rotate.
我们轮流。
So the pelvis rotates up and down, and forward and back.
所以骨盆会上下、前后旋转。
So it oscillates and undulates.
所以它会振荡、波动。
And then the shoulders counter-oscillate and counter-undulate.
然后肩膀反向摆动和反向波动。
So the shoulders go forward and backward, and up and down.
因此肩膀向前和向后、向上和向下。
Just pay attention to this next time you're out for a walk.
下次出去散步时请注意这一点。
You can feel your hips going backwards and forwards, and also going up and down.
您可以感觉到臀部前后移动、上下移动。
If they didn't go up and down, you'd trip yourself every step.
如果它们不上下移动，你每走一步都会被绊倒。
And the shoulders do the same.
肩膀也做同样的事情。
And then you have a spine, which is this column of a bunch of different pieces that connects the shoulder to the pelvis, which also rotates, side bends, and flexes and extends.
然后是脊柱，它是由一堆不同部件组成的柱子，连接肩膀和骨盆，它也可以旋转、侧弯、弯曲和伸展。
The whole system is this big torsional system, this cross-body system, and some people take maximum utility of this system, and you can see it.
整个系统就是这个大扭转系统，这个跨体系统，有些人把这个系统的效用最大化，你可以看到。
Some of the best movers, some of the best sprinters, you just watch them and you can just see how they wind up, and they coil into every single step, and they just use this cross-body coordination so effectively.
一些最好的移动运动员，一些最好的短跑运动员，你只要观察他们，你就可以看到他们如何结束，他们的每一步都盘绕着，他们只是如此有效地利用了这种跨身体协调。
And as you said, some others are just, it doesn't seem like there's any rotation going on here at all.
正如你所说，其他一些人只是，这里似乎根本没有发生任何轮换。
What looks better to you?
什么对你来说看起来更好？
Who looks better?
谁看起来更好？
It's the ones that are using this effectively that look, okay, that just looks better.
那些有效地使用它的人看起来，好吧，看起来更好。
I don't know why necessarily-
我不知道为什么一定-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm
嗯
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
but that looks way more athletic.
但这看起来更有运动感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, think robot dance versus somebody who really knows how to move their hips and shoulders in coordination.
好吧，想象一下机器人舞蹈与真正知道如何协调移动臀部和肩膀的人的舞蹈。
We'll talk about dance a little bit later.
我们稍后会讨论舞蹈。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You have an interesting relationship to music that I think is very relevant here.
你与音乐有着有趣的关系，我认为这与这里非常相关。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We'll get back to that, but I'm seeding the conversation.
我们稍后会讨论这个问题，但我正在引导对话。
But yeah, when the shoulders and the hips are moving in unison, it's like magic.
但是，是的，当肩膀和臀部一致移动时，就像魔法一样。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It really is.
确实如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It really is.
确实如此。
And just feel this when you walk.
当你走路的时候就感觉到这一点。
When you go out for your next walk, just try to pay attention to what your shoulders are doing and what your hips are doing, and start thinking, "Am I getting my knee behind my butt when I'm walking, and what does that feel like at my hip flexor and my quad?
当你下次出去散步时，试着注意你的肩膀在做什么，你的臀部在做什么，然后开始思考，“当我走路时，我的膝盖是否在屁股后面，我的髋屈肌和股四头肌感觉如何？
And as I do that, what's happening with the opposite shoulder?
当我这样做时，对面的肩膀发生了什么？
And is that getting wound up, and is that coiling properly?
是否已上紧，是否正确卷绕？
Am I taking advantage of these extremely innate, extremely natural movement tendencies that we all have?
我是否利用了我们所有人都拥有的这些极其与生俱来、极其自然的运动倾向？
Or have I, because of the way in which I've lived or some of the things that I've done or maybe even some of the things that somebody's told me, tried to be really square and linear with everything I've done?" Because think about it, right?
或者，由于我的生活方式或我所做的一些事情，甚至可能是别人告诉我的一些事情，我是否试图与我所做的一切保持正方和线性？”因为想想吧？
When we're taught to run when we're younger, any excessive movement outside of in a straight line has been told to us, "Oh, that's inefficient.
当我们年轻时被教导跑步时，任何超出直线的过度运动都会告诉我们：“哦，那是低效的。
You're wasting energy.
你在浪费能量。
You're bleeding all your force." Not understanding the actual biomechanical mechanism of the pelvis, the shoulders, and the spine that connects them, and how we are actually built to rotate and to bend.
你正在耗尽你所有的力量。”不了解骨盆、肩膀和连接它们的脊柱的实际生物力学机制，以及我们实际上是如何旋转和弯曲的。
And that's not to say, by the way, that more is better.
顺便说一句，这并不是说越多越好。
Everything is an inverted U in this world almost.
这个世界上的一切几乎都是一个倒U型。
There's a Goldilocks effect to this.
这有一个金发姑娘效应。
It's what is right for you.
这才是适合您的。
Some people will use this torsional system extremely effectively, and there'll be a lot of it, and some will be a little bit less, they're a little bit more linear, and they'll still be good.
有些人会非常有效地使用这个扭转系统，而且会有很多，有些人会少一点，他们会更线性一些，但他们仍然会很好。
That's all dependent upon their own individual and unique structure, their morphology, their genetics, how they're built and how they're born, and what they do with it as they age.
这一切都取决于它们自己独特的结构、形态、遗传、它们的构造和出生方式，以及随着年龄的增长它们如何处理它们。
But the bottom line is we are all rotational beings, and we need to try to find ways to take advantage of those rotational forces rather than to constrain them.
但最重要的是，我们都是旋转的存在，我们需要尝试找到利用这些旋转力的方法，而不是限制它们。
It's one of the reasons why I really dislike this anti-rotation terminology that's come into many of the exercises that we do in the weight room.
这就是为什么我真的不喜欢这种反旋转术语的原因之一，它出现在我们在举重室进行的许多练习中。
"This exercise is about anti-rotation." Why do you want to be anti-rotation?
“这个练习是关于反旋转的。”为什么要反旋转？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
We are rotational beings.
我们是旋转的生物。
You're anti excessive rotation, but not anti rotation.
你反对过度旋转，但不反对旋转。
So I feel like that, just as you were saying before with skipping, that's the wrong terminology for me, and that's just sending entirely the wrong message to everybody about the importance of us being a rotational being.
所以我觉得，就像你之前所说的跳过一样，这对我来说是错误的术语，这只是向每个人发出了完全错误的信息，即我们作为一个轮换存在的重要性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, naming matters.
是的，命名很重要。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It does.
确实如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Especially in exercise and anything related to, dare I call it wellness, anything mental health, physical health, and performance.
特别是在运动和任何与我敢称之为健康相关的事情上，任何心理健康、身体健康和表现。
The naming matters because it can take people's minds off track from the major point.
命名很重要，因为它会让人们的注意力偏离重点。
It can be a separator, as we mentioned before.
正如我们之前提到的，它可以是分隔符。
In the best case, it can be an aggregator.
在最好的情况下，它可以是一个聚合器。
I have to wonder, with people walking around looking at their phones all the time, are they losing the cross-body coordination?
我想知道，人们走路时一直看着手机，他们是否失去了跨身体协调能力？
I snuck in to one talk at South by Southwest.
我偷偷参加了西南偏南的一场演讲。
I got a ticket.
我拿到了票。
I got a pass.
我拿到了通行证。
I don't mean I snuck in.
我并不是说我偷偷溜进去的。
I went there for just one talk the other day, and I was walking through the hallways.
前几天我去那里只是为了一次演讲，当时我正穿过走廊。
This was a big meeting, tons of people, and it was incredible.
这是一次盛大的会议，有很多人，而且令人难以置信。
Everyone was walking looking at their phone.
每个人都一边走一边看手机。
Now, of course, there's a program that's on an app these days, so you're saving paper, so that's good, right?
当然，现在应用程序上有一个程序，所以您可以节省纸张，所以这很好，对吧？
But it was remarkable.
但这是了不起的。
People were walking and reading at the same time.
人们一边走路一边读书。
So I don't want to make more of this than we have data for, but this can't be good.
所以我不想做超出我们现有数据的事情，但这并不是一件好事。
This just can't be good.
这可不太好。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I think that's a really good point.
我认为这是一个很好的观点。
I haven't thought about that actually, but I think that's a really good point.
实际上我还没有考虑过这一点，但我认为这是一个非常好的观点。
I have a rule when I'm walking that if my phone buzzes and I want to pick up my phone, I stop.
当我走路时，我有一个规则，如果我的手机响起并且我想拿起手机，我就会停下来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I stop, I get out of the way of all the other walkers.
我停下来，让开所有其他步行者的道路。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I push myself up against the building, and I look to what's on my phone if I feel it's important, and then I start walking again.
我把自己推到大楼上，看看手机上的内容，如果我觉得重要的话，然后我又开始走路。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I just despise people who walk and look at the phone at the same time, because that's what you see.
我只是鄙视那些一边走路一边看手机的人，因为这就是你所看到的。
You see this unnatural, constrained, overly flexed posture, and if you spend too much time doing that, I don't think you need data.
你会看到这种不自然、受限、过度弯曲的姿势，如果你花太多时间这样做，我认为你不需要数据。
That's not good.
那不好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It's not good to walk that way.
那样走路不好。
That's not the way we're supposed to walk.
那不是我们应该走的路。
Again, it's all about coming back to let's express ourselves.
再说一次，这一切都是为了让我们回来表达自己。
Let's understand what our bodies are supposed to be able to do and find ways to continue to have that ability as we age.
让我们了解我们的身体应该能够做什么，并找到随着年龄的增长继续保持这种能力的方法。
This isn't it.
不是这个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's talk about expression through movement, and let's use the extremes as a starting point.
我们来谈谈通过动作表达，让我们以极端为起点。
I find that useful in any kind of scientific conversation.
我发现这在任何类型的科学对话中都很有用。
You take the extreme outcome.
你采取极端的结果。
So the person who is trying to take up as little space as possible, chin toward the chest, folded in, thumbs toward the midline, so called internal rotation, eyes down, trying to make themselves small.
所以，想要占据尽可能少的空间的人，下巴朝向胸部，折叠起来，拇指朝向中线，所谓的内旋，眼睛向下，试图让自己变小。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't need to spend another five seconds explaining all the psychological phenotypes that's associated with, and the way it makes us feel.
我不需要再花五秒钟来解释与之相关的所有心理表型，以及它给我们带来的感受。
Now, of course, it's possible to curl up in a small ball and think amazing things about the world and oneself, but generally, those things are not happening at the same time.
当然，现在，我们可以蜷缩成一个小球，思考关于世界和自己的奇妙事情，但一般来说，这些事情不会同时发生。
Now let's think about the other extreme and let's talk about him, Usain Bolt.
现在让我们考虑另一个极端，我们来谈谈他，尤塞恩·博尔特。
This will also be a fun opportunity for people to learn a little bit more about Usain.
这也将是一个有趣的机会，让人们更多地了解尤塞恩。
Let's start there.
让我们从这里开始吧。
What is so special about Usain Bolt, besides the fact that he's still the fastest man in the world, and what about his willingness to express himself do you think contributed to becoming the fastest person in the world?
尤塞恩·博尔特 (Usain Bolt) 有何特别之处，除了他仍然是世界上最快的人这一事实之外，您认为他表达自己的意愿对成为世界上最快的人有何贡献？
Not just feeling great that he's the fastest guy in the world, and therefore, who wouldn't feel great?
他是世界上最快的人，这不仅让他感觉很棒，因此，谁不会感觉很棒呢？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Usain is unique.
尤塞恩是独一无二的。
If we look over the history of some of the elite male sprinters, there was a time, when I started getting into the sport, the way to be as an elite male sprinter was hyper-focused, hyper-intense.
如果我们回顾一些精英男子短跑运动员的历史，曾经有一段时间，当我开始进入这项运动时，成为一名精英男子短跑运动员的方式是高度专注、高度紧张。
If you think about Mo Greene stalking behind his blocks and licking his lips, getting ready for this, basically he's going to war.
如果你想想莫·格林在他的街区后面跟踪并舔着嘴唇，为此做好准备，基本上他就要开战了。
And it seemed like so many of the sprinters were trying to encapsulate this kind of feeling, like sprinting is it's macho, it's ego, it's I'm coming here to knock you out.
似乎很多短跑运动员都在试图概括这种感觉，就像短跑是男子气概，是自我，是我来这里是为了把你击倒。
And then Usain came along with the exact opposite, and I think it's just he's out there having fun.
然后尤塞恩提出了完全相反的观点，我认为这只是他在外面玩得很开心。
As I told the story about Jodie a little bit earlier, right, she was for a long time, she didn't connect herself with the activity.
正如我之前讲的关于朱迪的故事，对吧，她很长一段时间，她都没有把自己和这个活动联系起来。
They were two separate beings.
他们是两个独立的存在。
She was doing something that she no longer really connected with.
她正在做一些与她不再真正相关的事情。
And Usain, they're like this.
还有尤塞恩，他们就是这样。
Like he was really expressing his entire being in the way in which he went around about this task of sprinting 100 meters or sprinting 200 meters.
就像他在围绕冲刺100米或冲刺200米的任务中真正表达了他的整个存在一样。
And I feel like that is such an important piece with all sport and probably within all things.
我觉得这对所有运动乃至所有事物来说都是如此重要的一部分。
If you can connect your entire way of being with the thing that you're spending most of your time doing, chances are you're going to be really successful at that thing.
如果你能将你的整个生活方式与你花费大部分时间做的事情联系起来，那么你很可能会在那件事上取得真正的成功。
And if you look at all the other sports, right, it's the ones that you can tell they're just really confident in who they are, in what they do, how they express themselves.
如果你看看其他所有的运动项目，你就会发现，他们对自己是谁、做什么、如何表达自己都非常有信心。
And that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be Usain Bolt and playing around at the line and doing things like this and jumping around.
这并不一定意味着你必须成为博尔特，在罚球线上玩耍，做这样的事情，跳来跳去。
And that's just-
那只是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Was he always like that?
他一直都是这样吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Always.
总是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Does anyone know when he was a kid?
有谁知道他小时候的事吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Oh, no. He's a kid.
哦，不。他是个孩子。
He's a big kid.
他是个大孩子了。
He still is.
他仍然是。
He brings this really childlike intensity to things.
他把这种真正孩子气的强度带入事物中。
Like, he's still intense.
比如说，他仍然很激烈。
He wants to kill you, but he'll laugh in your face just before he does it.
他想杀了你，但在他这么做之前他会当面嘲笑你。
I love that about him.
我喜欢他这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
But that's not everybody.
但并不是所有人都是这样。
That's not every elite sprinter.
这并不是每一位精英短跑运动员。
I coached a guy named Andre De Grasse for a while, who won three Olympic medals in 2016.
我曾执教过一位名叫安德烈·德格拉斯（Andre De Grasse）的人，他在 2016 年赢得了三枚奥运会奖牌。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I remember him, yeah.
我记得他，是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Coming right behind Usain Bolt-
紧随尤塞恩博尔特之后-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I remember the name
我记得这个名字
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
in that famous 200 meters where they were smiling at each other.
在那著名的200米比赛中，他们互相微笑。
Andre's very quiet Very kind of tightly, just down here, very insular, on his phone, not really living life, kind of lived life down here, very closed.
安德烈非常安静，非常紧密，就在这里，非常孤立，他打电话，不是真正的生活，而是在这里过着生活，非常封闭。
And that's the way in which he performed.
这就是他的表现方式。
That's the way he practiced, that's the way he trained, that's the way he competed.
这就是他练习的方式，这就是他训练的方式，这就是他比赛的方式。
He didn't feel like he had to be up here and bouncing around, jumping around, because that was not him.
他不觉得自己必须在上面跳来跳去，因为那不是他。
And if there's one thing that Andre is famous for, and he's now got seven Olympic medals.
如果说安德烈因一件事而闻名的话，那就是他现在获得了七枚奥运会奖牌。
I don't know how many big races Andre has won outside of the Olympic Games, but he's got seven Olympic medals.
我不知道安德烈在奥运会之外赢得了多少场大型比赛，但他获得了七枚奥运会奖牌。
He really stands up when it matters because he is connected with who he is.
当重要的时候，他确实会挺身而出，因为他与自己息息相关。
He knows who he is, and what he brings out to the performance arena is connected like this with that.
他知道自己是谁，他在表演舞台上带来的东西是这样和那样联系在一起的。
Where others, and the biggest example that I know is Asafa Powell.
其他人，我所知道的最大的例子是阿萨法·鲍威尔。
So if anyone doesn't know who Asafa Powell is, Asafa was Usain Bolt before Usain Bolt.
因此，如果有人不知道阿萨法·鲍威尔是谁，阿萨法就是尤塞恩·博尔特之前的尤塞恩·博尔特。
Asafa's ran sub-10 seconds in 100 meters 99 times, more than anyone else in history.
阿萨法曾 99 次在 100 米跑进 10 秒以内，比历史上任何人都多。
He's by all intents and purposes one of the greatest male sprinters of all time.
无论如何，他都是有史以来最伟大的男性短跑运动员之一。
He's a legend.
他是一个传奇。
He's had a world record.
他创造了一项世界纪录。
I think he's set two world records.
我认为他创造了两项世界纪录。
He's an incredible sprinter who's choked at every single major championships there's ever been.
他是一位令人难以置信的短跑运动员，在历届重大锦标赛中都感到窒息。
He's always folded.
他总是折叠起来。
And he does that because he feels like he came up in the era of Mo Greene, this animal thing, this being really, really super intense.
他这样做是因为他觉得自己是在莫·格林时代出生的，这种动物性的东西，这种感觉真的非常非常强烈。
So Asafa tried to be that.
所以阿萨法试图成为那样的人。
That didn't work for him.
那对他不起作用。
And then Bernard Williams, who's kind of jumping around and playing around a little bit, that became a thing for a while.
然后伯纳德·威廉姆斯（Bernard Williams），他有点跳来跳去，玩弄了一下，这成为了一段时间的事情。
So Asafa tried that hat on.
于是阿萨法试戴了那顶帽子。
That didn't work either.
那也没用。
And then Usain came, and Usain is playing with the camera and bringing his personality out.
然后尤塞恩来了，尤塞恩正在摆弄镜头，把他的个性表现出来。
So Asafa tried that hat on.
于是阿萨法试戴了那顶帽子。
Guess what?
你猜怎么着？
That didn't work either.
那也没用。
So there's this, yeah.
所以有这个，是的。
Usain brought this almost, yeah, it's okay to jump around and to dance and have fun, but it's not for everybody if that's not who you are.
尤塞恩几乎带来了这个，是的，跳来跳去、跳舞、玩得开心是可以的，但如果你不是这样的人，这并不适合所有人。
And I feel like that was an important thing.
我觉得这是一件重要的事情。
If I was coaching Asafa, I'd say, "Man, Asafa, just be you, man.
如果我是阿萨法的教练，我会说：“伙计，阿萨法，就做你自己吧，伙计。
You're relaxed.
你很放松。
You're Andre De Grasse before Andre De Grasse came along.
在安德烈·德格拉斯出现之前，你就是安德烈·德格拉斯。
You're just cool and chill.
你只是很冷静。
Just be cool and chill, man.
保持冷静，伙计。
Just be that.
就这样吧。
Just bring you to this performance, and you'll get a lot more out of yourself." But, to get back to your question, Usain just gave everybody, I think, the permission to have fun.
只要带你去看这场表演，你就会得到更多的收获。”但是，回到你的问题，我认为尤塞恩只是给了每个人享受乐趣的许可。
That's why we do this thing is to have fun, and if you're not having fun, then why are we bothering?
这就是为什么我们做这件事是为了好玩，如果你不开心，那我们为什么还要麻烦呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's so interesting, and his name comes up so often now, and I'm grateful to have him as a close friend.
这太有趣了，他的名字现在经常出现，我很高兴有他作为亲密的朋友。
But I've had hours upon hours of conversations with Rick Rubin about why certain musical artists just have that thing.
但我和里克·鲁宾（Rick Rubin）进行了数小时的交谈，探讨为什么某些音乐艺术家会有这种东西。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it doesn't matter if you're talking about Tom Petty, Joe Strummer, Johnny Cash, Adele.
如果你谈论的是汤姆·佩蒂、乔·斯特鲁默、约翰尼·卡什、阿黛尔，那也没关系。
You ask about all these different people, and the answer is always the same.
你询问所有这些不同的人，答案总是相同的。
It's they know how to be themselves in that moment.
他们知道在那一刻如何做自己。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And people will say, "Well, it's a constructed..." Rick will be like, "No." This is why he likes to work with artists early on, like a lot of the hip-hop artists he worked with, a lot of the punk rock music artists he worked with.
人们会说，“嗯，这是一个人造的……”里克会说，“不。”这就是为什么他很早就喜欢与艺术家合作，就像他合作过的很多嘻哈艺术家、很多朋克摇滚音乐艺术家一样。
They were just being themselves.
他们只是做自己。
They had no success prior to their, like LL Cool J sending him a demo tape, and so there was no self-awareness, or there wasn't enough self-awareness to hinder their expression.
他们之前没有成功过，比如LL Cool J给他发了一个演示带，所以没有自我意识，或者说没有足够的自我意识来阻碍他们的表达。
They were just being them, and that's always what explodes people to immense success.
他们只是做自己，而这总是能让人们取得巨大成功的原因。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
There's something to be said for ignorance, isn't there?
有一些事情可以说是因为无知，不是吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's something to be said for ignorance, and there's something of a gravitational pull as a spectator or a listener to the artist, the athlete, the musician-
无知是有道理的，作为艺术家、运动员、音乐家的观众或听众，有一种引力——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
who's just being themselves.
谁只是做他们自己。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we know we can detect at an unconscious level when it's not real.
我们知道，当它不真实时，我们可以在无意识的水平上察觉到。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is one of the things I love so much about podcasting, or at least I'm very blessed to be in the early-ish cohort of podcasters, right?
这是我非常喜欢播客的原因之一，或者至少我很幸运能够成为早期播客的一员，对吧？
I wasn't in the first cohort like the Dan Carlins and the Rogans, but I came in early enough that none of us really knew what to do except just be ourselves.
我不像丹·卡林斯和罗根那样属于第一批人，但我进来得足够早，除了做我们自己之外，我们谁都不知道该做什么。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now it's changing.
现在情况正在改变。
There's a big flood of commercial entities in podcasting, and some of those are good, and most of them are not, frankly, because they're not real.
播客中有大量的商业实体，其中一些是好的，坦率地说，其中大多数都不是，因为它们不是真实的。
They're more like a new show.
它们更像是一个新节目。
It's produced.
就生产出来了
It's not real.
这不是真的。
The person on camera and off camera are very different.
镜头内和镜头外的人是非常不同的。
But I can tell you that Joe Rogan off camera, that's Rogan.
但我可以告诉你镜头外的乔·罗根，那就是罗根。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I was thinking about really expressive people in different domains to compare more or less to this example that you were describing with Usain.
我正在考虑不同领域中真正具有表现力的人，以或多或少地与您与尤塞恩描述的这个例子进行比较。
So Roganites rather.
所以更确切地说是罗根派。
Muhammad Ali, big-
穆罕默德·阿里，大——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
boisterous personality.
性格喧闹。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Huge attractor to him.
对他有巨大的吸引力。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was not a construction.
这不是一个建筑。
He might have honed it as part of his craft, but clearly that's who he was.
他可能已经将其作为自己技艺的一部分进行磨练，但显然他就是这样的人。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He's a fast talker.
他说话很快。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Mike Tyson.
迈克·泰森。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mike Tyson.
迈克·泰森。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Very different.
非常不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
But that's him.
但那就是他。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
You know?
你知道吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And everyone loves Mike Tyson because it's very clear that that is Mike Tyson.
每个人都喜欢迈克·泰森，因为很明显那是迈克·泰森。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Jean-Michel Basquiat.
让-米歇尔·巴斯奎特。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Even just the size of the paintings-
哪怕只是画作的尺寸——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and the way he worked and the physicality of it.
以及他的工作方式和身体素质。
I think he was Haitian.
我认为他是海地人。
I'm going to get back to this kind of nationality thing a little bit later.
稍后我将回到这种国籍问题。
And then we had on here the great Josh Waitzkin, who was the subject of the movie "The Search for Bobby Fischer," and his whole strategy in chess that he learned in Washington Square Park of creating chaos on the chess board.
然后我们这里有伟大的乔什·维茨金，他是电影《寻找鲍比·费舍尔》的主题，以及他在华盛顿广场公园学到的在棋盘上制造混乱的整个国际象棋策略。
This game that everyone considers very linear and very constrained, and he liked to create chaos because Washington Square Park, especially in the '80s and '90s, chaos.
大家都认为这个游戏非常线性并且非常受限制，而且他喜欢制造混乱，因为华盛顿广场公园，尤其是在 80 年代和 90 年代，混乱。
You had drug dealers and crime, and there's people doing pretty much every activity there.
这里有毒贩和犯罪，人们在那里从事几乎所有活动。
And on and on, right?
不断地，对吧？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think that when people are just being themselves, this is what you're saying, and this is what Rick has said over and over, That essence piece-
我认为，当人们只是做自己时，这就是你所说的，这就是里克一遍又一遍说过的，那段精髓——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is so magnificent.
是那么的壮丽。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And not just to see, but it evolves humankind.
不仅仅是为了观察，它还促进了人类的发展。
It really does.
确实如此。
And, so when you work with an athlete, or for the listener who's trying to figure out, "Well, who am I?" Does it work in reverse?
而且，当你与一名运动员一起工作时，或者与那些试图弄清楚“嗯，我是谁？”的听众一起工作时。反过来也能发挥作用吗？
Meaning, and I believe, that movement can actually teach us who we are-
这意味着，我相信，这种运动实际上可以告诉我们我们是谁——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in addition to allow us to express who we are.
除了让我们表达我们是谁。
And I'm not going to say that skipping is the only way to do that, but it was very interesting yesterday to notice the transitions in my state of mind as I got permission from you to go bigger.
我不会说跳绳是做到这一点的唯一方法，但昨天很有趣的是，当我得到你的许可去更大的时候，注意到我心态的转变。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Get bigger, stride bigger.
变得更大，步子更大。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we were the adults on the kids' playground, in my mind, behaving like kids.
在我看来，我们是儿童游乐场上的成年人，表现得像孩子一样。
But it is transformative, I think, to move differently makes you feel different.
但我认为，以不同的方式行动会让你感觉不同，这是变革性的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And when those things line up, I think is what you're talking about.
当这些事情排列起来时，我想这就是你所说的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
I think it's a brilliant question.
我认为这是一个很好的问题。
I really do think it's everything in sport, but I think, as you said, just when you zoom out, it's not just sport, it's all, everything.
我确实认为这就是运动的一切，但我认为，正如你所说，当你缩小视野时，它不仅仅是运动，而是一切。
And I feel like so often in sport specifically, people like me steal the essence away from the athletes because we have our own preconceived ideas of what you should be doing should look like.
我觉得在体育运动中，像我这样的人经常窃取运动员的精髓，因为我们对你应该做的事情有自己先入为主的想法。
And it's my idea, but it's not your essence, and it's not your idea.
这是我的想法，但这不是你的本质，也不是你的想法。
And I always feel like we should be coaching towards what the athlete's best solution is, not what our best solution is.
我总觉得我们应该指导运动员的最佳解决方案是什么，而不是我们的最佳解决方案是什么。
I've got an athlete I'm working with right now who's super gifted.
我现在有一位正在和我一起工作的运动员，他非常有天赋。
She's a two-time Olympian.
她是两届奥运会选手。
She's got an Olympic gold medal in the relay.
她在接力比赛中获得了一枚奥运会金牌。
And she's been coached for a long time to move in a way that does not align with her essence.
长期以来，她一直被教导以一种不符合她本质的方式行事。
It does not align with what she is good at.
这与她所擅长的不相符。
And what will that do to you over the course of time?
随着时间的推移，这会对你产生什么影响？
It's obviously going to negatively affect your confidence.
这显然会对你的信心产生负面影响。
It definitely negatively affects the way you move because you're moving in a way that just doesn't align with you, whether that's psychologically, emotionally, or physically biomechanically.
它肯定会对你的移动方式产生负面影响，因为你的移动方式与你不相符，无论是心理上、情感上还是身体生物力学上。
So this is a tall, elastic, expressive sprinter who's been taught to be really small and compact and accelerate with really short, choppy steps.
所以这是一位身材高大、富有弹性、富有表现力的短跑运动员，他被教导要变得非常小而紧凑，并以非常短的、起伏不定的步伐加速。
And she's lost the ability to even understand who she is anymore in this sport.
她甚至失去了在这项运动中了解自己是谁的能力。
So my objective now is try to reintroduce herself to herself.
所以我现在的目标是尝试重新自我介绍。
What was it that got you into this?
是什么让你陷入这样的境地？
How did you move?
你怎么搬家的？
Why were you really, really good at this?
为什么你真的非常擅长这个？
Let's reconnect with that.
让我们重新联系一下。
And the challenging piece with that is how do you understand what that is?
具有挑战性的部分是你如何理解那是什么？
Especially years, if you've been being taught a certain way that is not in alignment with who you are, whether that is sport or anything else, it's really difficult to reconnect with it if you don't have a really good guide.
尤其是多年来，如果你接受的某种方式与你的身份不相符，无论是体育运动还是其他任何东西，如果你没有一个真正好的指导，就很难重新与它建立联系。
Because so often those guides, and that's whether it's a coach or a music producer, will screw them up.
因为那些指导者，无论是教练还是音乐制作人，常常会把他们搞砸。
Not purposefully.
不是故意的。
They're coming at this from a very optimistic standpoint and a positive standpoint.
他们是从非常乐观和积极的角度来看待这个问题的。
"I'm trying to help you, Andrew.
“我正在努力帮助你，安德鲁。
This is what I think.
我是这么想的。
These are my experiences.
这些是我的经历。
This is my subjective view.
这是我的主观看法。
This is how I see you doing the thing that you're doing, and that's based on my history." Rather than where it should be, and that's based on your history.
这就是我对你做你正在做的事情的看法，这是基于我的历史。”而不是它应该在的地方，这是基于你的历史。
And that's the difference between a Rick Rubin and many other producers, and it's the difference between elite coaches and sub-elite coaches.
这就是里克·鲁宾和许多其他制作人之间的区别，也是精英教练和次精英教练之间的区别。
You always start with the person.
你总是从人开始。
What is the unique ability that you have?
你拥有什么独特的能力？
What is it that you have that makes you better than everyone else?
是什么让你比其他人都优秀？
What is it you have that really that you want to show everyone?
您真正想向大家展示的是什么？
Let's connect with that.
让我们联系一下。
Let's show that.
让我们展示一下。
Let's build all of our training around that.
让我们围绕这一点构建我们所有的培训。
Let's have all of our conversations around that.
让我们所有的谈话都围绕这个展开。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm remembering the example from that documentary, "The Last Dance" about Michael Jordan.
我记得那部关于迈克尔·乔丹的纪录片《最后之舞》中的例子。
Some of the description of the Chicago Bulls coach encouraging Dennis Rodman, who in the '90s was, '80s and '90s, first of all, very few people had that many tattoos who weren't in prison or in a niche music community, right?
芝加哥公牛队教练鼓励丹尼斯·罗德曼的一些描述，他在90年代，80年代和90年代，首先，很少有人没有在监狱或小众音乐社区中拥有那么多纹身，对吗？
Dennis had a ton of tattoos.
丹尼斯有很多纹身。
He had earrings.
他有耳环。
He dyed his hair.
他染了头发。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He loved to party.
他喜欢参加聚会。
He was wild, and his coach understood that it was part of his reset mechanism.
他很狂野，他的教练明白这是他重置机制的一部分。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you don't put a bulldog in a race with a bunch of greyhounds, and you don't have greyhounds tug a rope with a kettlebell on the end.
你不会让斗牛犬和一群灰狗一起比赛，也不会让灰狗拉一根末端带有壶铃的绳子。
I know this as a bulldog owner who loves all breeds of dogs.
作为一个热爱所有品种狗的斗牛犬主人，我知道这一点。
So he gave Dennis permission to party-
所以他允许丹尼斯参加派对——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
what no professional coach would probably do.
没有专业教练可能会做的事情。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it brought out his ability-
也让他的能力发挥出来了——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to play.
玩。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Brilliant.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
An incredible rebounder, incredible player all around-
一个令人难以置信的篮板手，一个令人难以置信的球员——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but famous for his rebound stats.
但以他的篮板数据而闻名。
So this thing of who am I?
那么我是谁呢？
How do I express myself?
我如何表达自己？
I think the authenticity piece is so key.
我认为真实性非常关键。
If you're a nice person, being a jerk in your sport is probably not going to work.
如果你是一个好人，那么在你的运动中做一个混蛋可能是行不通的。
But if you enjoy competition and you're a nice person, then it seems like there's a place for that.
但如果你喜欢竞争并且你是一个好人，那么似乎就有一个地方可以竞争。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I wonder whether or not a big component of all of this in discovering it for people that are going to try plyometric skipping and these sorts of things to try and better understand themselves and express themselves, which I think would be a wonderful thing to come from this discussion, is the trying to shut down the self-conscious part, the self-critic.
我想知道，对于那些打算尝试增强式跳绳和此类事情来尝试更好地理解自己和表达自己的人来说，发现这一切的一个重要组成部分是否是试图关闭自我意识部分，即自我批评，我认为从这次讨论中得出这一点将是一件很棒的事情。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you think the best sprinters are also not thinking about anyone else?
你认为最好的短跑运动员也不会考虑其他人吗？
They're just enjoying themselves, or at least are they feeling the sprint More than they're paying attention to their form as a, how does this look?
他们只是在享受自己，或者至少他们感觉冲刺比他们更关注自己的形式，这看起来怎么样？
So I'm thinking about it.
所以我正在考虑。
I'm on the track with you.
我和你一起在赛道上
I'm going to run or skip, and I can either just feel where it's more expressive, or I can try and show you that it's more expressive.
我要跑或跳，我要么只是感觉哪里更有表现力，要么我可以尝试向你展示它更有表现力。
Two very different things.
两个截然不同的事情。
One, there's a self-conscious awareness piece, the showing you.
第一，有一个自我意识的意识片段，即向你展示。
I'm going to show you this as opposed to just doing it for the feel of it.
我将向您展示这一点，而不是仅仅为了感觉而这样做。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is that the distinction?
这就是区别吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, that's a really good way to put it.
是的，这是一个非常好的表达方式。
One really good example of this in the sprints world, and I think you were there for it.
在短跑世界中，这是一个非常好的例子，我认为你也在场。
This is 2022 World Championships in Oregon.
这是 2022 年在俄勒冈州举行的世界锦标赛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I was there.
是的，我当时就在那里。
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And Noah Lyles won the 200-
诺亚·莱尔斯 (Noah Lyles) 赢得了 200-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
in an American record 19.31.
美国纪录为19.31。
And that was for me, that's the epitome of just being so lost in what you're doing that you have no idea what you're looking like.
对我来说，这就是一个缩影，就是完全沉浸在自己所做的事情中，以至于不知道自己是什么样子。
And he's just maximally expressing everything that he's got.
他只是最大限度地表达了他所拥有的一切。
And he bounds across the line.
他越过了界线。
I said, "Man, that was beautiful." I've never seen that.
我说：“伙计，那真是太美了。”我从来没有见过这样的情况。
It was so beautiful.
真是太美了。
Totally lost in flow.
完全失去了流动。
And it doesn't happen as often as many who don't work in sport think it does.
而且这种情况并不像许多不从事体育工作的人想象的那么频繁。
Not every single performance is a flow performance.
并非每一次表演都是流动表演。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
But if you're lucky, you'll get one or two of those in your career where you just lose connection with everything that you're doing, and you just, "Wow, what happened?" And in fact, every time that a sprinter sets a personal best, I ask him, "What was that feeling like?" "I don't know.
但如果你幸运的话，在你的职业生涯中你会遇到一两次这样的情况，你与你正在做的一切失去联系，你只是，“哇，发生了什么？”事实上，每次短跑运动员创下个人最好成绩时，我都会问他：“那是什么感觉？” “我不知道。
No idea.
不知道。
I don't know how that felt.
我不知道那感觉如何。
I just ran." So all of these things that we talked about, all of these incredible coaching cues that I gave you to think about when you were doing this, you forgot them all?
我刚刚跑了。”所以我们谈论的所有这些事情，所有这些令人难以置信的指导线索，当你这样做时我给你思考的，你都忘记了它们吗？
He said, "I just ran.
他说：“我刚刚跑了。
I just ran." And almost always, that is the answer to that.
我刚刚跑了。”几乎总是如此，这就是答案。
I just ran, and I just connected with it.
我只是跑了，我就和它联系起来了。
And something in the background, we were able to-- One of the ways, and I'll bring this home a little bit more maybe practically.
在后台，我们能够——其中一种方式，我可能会更多地把它带回家。
So we train 20 to 25 hours a week, and my goal each day is not to say a lot.
所以我们每周训练20到25个小时，我每天的目标不是说很多。
I want the athlete to kind of find a way through things, and I will encourage them and guide them and sort of facilitate this discovery.
我希望运动员能够找到解决问题的方法，我会鼓励他们、指导他们并促进这一发现。
But often we'll talk about different things, and if they're struggling with something, I'll give them a specific cue.
但我们经常会讨论不同的事情，如果他们在某些事情上遇到困难，我会给他们一个特定的提示。
And over the course of time, we build this library of different things that the athlete thinks about, or the different cues.
随着时间的推移，我们建立了这个包含运动员思考的不同事物或不同线索的库。
And then my objective coming into more of a competitive season is to try to align these cues with an emotion, what I call, or what are called mood words.
然后，我进入更多竞争赛季的目标是尝试将这些线索与情绪（我所说的情绪词）结合起来。
So for example, when an athlete is accelerating, they're on the ground for a little bit longer than when they're upright because they need to actually propel themselves forward.
例如，当运动员加速时，他们在地面上停留的时间比直立时要长一点，因为他们需要真正推动自己前进。
They need horizontal force.
他们需要水平力。
They need the ground to push themselves forward.
他们需要地面来推动自己前进。
So they push and they push, or they drive.
所以他们推啊推，或者他们开车。
So cues could be drive, it could be push, it could be power, it could be pull your thighs forward.
所以提示可以是驱动力，可以是推力，可以是力量，也可以是将大腿向前拉。
It could be all of these different things that are around power.
所有这些不同的事物都可能与权力有关。
But for me, the mood word that really expresses this better than anything is pressure.
但对我来说，最能表达这一点的情绪词是压力。
I want you to feel like you're applying as much pressure through the first half of this race as you possibly can.
我希望你能感觉到你在这场比赛的前半程中施加了尽可能大的压力。
And the second half of the race is the exact opposite of that.
而比赛的后半程则恰恰相反。
So we talk about things that we do technically, knees up, thighs up, step off the ground, be vertical, be expressive, be tall, all of these different cues.
所以我们谈论我们在技术上要做的事情，膝盖向上，大腿向上，离开地面，垂直，富有表现力，很高，所有这些不同的线索。
But really what we're trying to get to is freedom or peace.
但我们真正想要的是自由或和平。
So that's what a 100-meter sprint is.
这就是100米短跑。
It's 50 meters of pressure and 50 meters of peace.
这是50米的压力和50米的平静。
So I try to align these mood words with these coaching instructions, and then all the athletes need to think about is this emotion or this mood word, and all the instructions come along for the ride.
因此，我尝试将这些情绪词与这些教练指示结合起来，然后所有运动员需要考虑的就是这种情绪或这种情绪词，并且所有指示都会随之而来。
That is the goal, and that is, going back to something we talked about quite a while ago now, probably one of the things that I love the most around the 100 meters is this dichotomous relationship between pressure and peace, or power and fluidity, or violence and rhythm.
这就是我们的目标，也就是说，回到我们很久以前讨论过的事情，可能我在 100 米比赛中最喜欢的事情之一就是压力与和平、力量与流动性、暴力与节奏之间的二分关系。
All of these things that are at opposing ends of the spectrum that every single elite athlete, regardless of the sport, can come together perfectly.
所有这些处于对立两端的东西，每一位精英运动员，无论什么运动，都可以完美地结合在一起。
If you can have the power, but if you don't have the peace, good luck.
如果你能拥有力量，但如果你没有平安，那么祝你好运。
You can have the peace, but if you don't have the power, good luck.
你可以拥有平静，但如果你没有力量，那就祝你好运了。
No chance.
没有机会。
It's always both simultaneously.
两者总是同时发生。
So that's the massive challenge in this sport.
这就是这项运动的巨大挑战。
And going back to Noah in 2022, that world championship final in the 200, incredible.
回到 2022 年的诺阿，那场 200 米世界冠军决赛，令人难以置信。
That's maybe the best example of that I've ever seen.
这也许是我见过的最好的例子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, amazing race.
是的，很棒的比赛。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Really was.
确实是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really feel blessed to have been there.
真的感觉很幸运能够来到那里。
And by the way, folks, if you have never been to a track meet, for many reasons, it's one of the most wonderful things.
顺便说一句，朋友们，如果您由于多种原因从未参加过田径运动会，那也是最美妙的事情之一。
First of all, it will give you an example of what real coordination is all about, and I'm not talking about physical coordination, although that too.
首先，它会给你一个例子，说明什么是真正的协调，我不是在谈论身体协调，尽管这也是如此。
You'll be watching the pole vault, and then you'll shift your eyes to the right, and there'll be another event starting right as the pole vault ends, and then another one.
你将观看撑杆跳高比赛，然后你将眼睛转向右侧，撑杆跳高结束时就会有另一项赛事开始，然后是另一项赛事。
It's a beautifully orchestrated event when done properly, as they do in Eugene and elsewhere.
如果处理得当，这将是一场精心策划的活动，就像他们在尤金和其他地方所做的那样。
The other piece is that nobody goes to track meets unless they love track, although hopefully a few people who are not familiar with track will try it.
另一件事是，除非热爱田径，否则没有人会去参加田径比赛，尽管希望一些不熟悉田径的人会尝试一下。
And so the amount of spirit there is incredible.
所以那里的精神力量是令人难以置信的。
And there's also, I don't know, there's a lot of identification with individuals there that even if you've never seen them run or anything, you pick up on the different- ...
而且，我不知道，那里有很多对个人的认同，即使你从未见过他们跑步或其他什么，你也会发现不同的——......
on the different personalities of the runners and the jumpers and the throwers.
关于跑者、跳投者和投掷者的不同性格。
And it's really special.
这真的很特别。
Check out a track meet if you can.
如果可以的话，参加田径比赛。
You won't be disappointed.
你不会失望的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Please do.
请这样做。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You won't be disappointed.
你不会失望的。
And I don't work for USA Track and Field.
我不为美国田径队工作。
People are like, "Do you work for big track?" No, actually, I don't.
人们会问，“你在大型赛道工作吗？”不，实际上，我不知道。
I buy a ticket like everybody else.
我和其他人一样买票。
This notion of pressure and peace, it brings me back to this thing about these transition activities, like for songwriters even, who are so skilled, a Joni Mitchell or I was referring to earlier, Tim Armstrong, having these transition activities, trying to get into one's craft and the pressure, and then it kind of opens up-
这种压力与和平的概念，它让我回到关于这些过渡活动的事情，甚至对于歌曲作者来说，他们是如此熟练，乔尼·米切尔或我之前提到的蒂姆·阿姆斯特朗，进行这些过渡活动，试图进入一个人的手艺和压力，然后它就开始了——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
into peace.
进入和平。
And I feel like any time Rick is talking about working with musicians, and I was like, "How'd it go?" He's in the studio, and it's like they work super hard.
我觉得每当里克谈论与音乐家合作时，我都会想，“进展如何？”他在工作室里，看起来他们工作非常努力。
They work extremely hard.
他们工作非常努力。
And then the story I always hear is, "Oh, yeah, in the last two days, it all came together."
然后我经常听到的故事是，“哦，是的，在过去的两天里，一切都聚集在一起了。”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because they set real deadlines.
因为他们设定了真正的最后期限。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think this is why deadlines are important.
我认为这就是为什么最后期限很重要。
This is why writers and artists who have no deadlines oftentimes don't do as well, and maybe athletes as well, that the pressure piece of getting everything organized around an activity, and then the nervous system just kind of takes it.
这就是为什么没有最后期限的作家和艺术家常常做得不好，也许运动员也做得不好，围绕一项活动组织一切的压力，然后神经系统就会承受它。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The commonalities here are fascinating to me.
这里的共性让我着迷。
Maybe we all could approach our exercise that way, too, that it's okay to be rigidly attached to detail at the beginning, but the goal is peace in the final minutes of it, right?
也许我们都可以以这种方式进行练习，一开始严格遵守细节是可以的，但目标是在最后几分钟保持平静，对吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, I think that's a good way of looking at it.
是的，我认为这是一个很好的看待问题的方式。
Yeah.
是的。
I think more than that, if we zoom out, I feel like society or the way in which we think about exercise now has become detached from why we actually started doing the things to begin with, movement.
我认为不仅如此，如果我们缩小视野，我觉得社会或我们现在思考运动的方式已经与我们真正开始做运动的原因脱节了。
Right?
正确的？
We fall in love with finding our way around the world through moving our bodies in space and time, doing whatever, whether that's hiking or playing a sport or whatever.
我们爱上了通过在空间和时间中移动我们的身体来寻找环游世界的方式，做任何事情，无论是徒步旅行还是参加运动等等。
And then we finish school, and we get a job, and now we don't really move anymore.
然后我们完成学业，找到工作，现在我们不再搬家了。
That becomes exercise, and we go to the gym, and we exercise.
这就是锻炼，我们去健身房锻炼。
And I feel like that's so many degrees removed from why we actually do the thing.
我觉得这与我们实际做这件事的原因相去甚远。
I feel like we don't ask ourselves, "Is this what is really serving me?
我觉得我们不会问自己：“这真的对我有用吗？
Or is this what everyone else is doing so I'm just going to go along with it?" And for me, I lift weights.
或者这就是其他人都在做的事情，所以我也只能跟着做？”对我来说，我举重。
I go to the weight room.
我去举重室。
I do that four or five days a week.
我每周这样做四五天。
I skip every single day.
我每天都会跳过。
I run three or four days a week.
我每周跑步三四天。
I do some boxing.
我会打拳击。
I move my body.
我移动身体。
I play.
我玩。
I do as many different things as I can do, includes hiking.
我尽可能多地做不同的事情，包括徒步旅行。
And I feel like that's what we should be doing.
我觉得这就是我们应该做的。
I'm asking myself, "What is it that I want to get out of this practice?
我问自己：“我想从这种实践中得到什么？
Is it I want to go to the gym for 45 minutes a day and get as strong as I can or as big as I can?" Whatever.
我是想每天去健身房 45 分钟，然后变得尽可能强壮或者尽可能大吗？”任何。
And if that is it, great.
如果是这样，那就太好了。
But I need to ask myself that question.
但我需要问自己这个问题。
I don't feel like many of us are asking that question.
我觉得我们很多人都没有问这个问题。
And for me, and we've alluded to this a couple times now, is what's important about moving as we're aging and being connected with that and having the ability to continue to be able to express ourselves maximally over the course of our lifetimes.
对我来说，我们已经多次提到过这一点，重要的是随着我们年龄的增长而搬家，并与之保持联系，并有能力在我们的一生中继续最大限度地表达自己。
That isn't developed in a weight room.
这不是在健身房里练出来的。
That's developed by doing those things.
这是通过做这些事情而发展起来的。
You might appreciate this.
你可能会欣赏这一点。
If you were looking for good movement, would you go to a weight room or a skate park?
如果您正在寻找良好的运动，您会去举重室或滑板公园吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Definitely to a skate park.
肯定是去滑板公园。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Because the movers are so much better.
因为搬家工人的技术要好得多。
The movement there is, wow, this is incredible.
那里的运动，哇，这太不可思议了。
Don't you want to be able to do that rather than do a squat?
难道你不想做这个而不是做深蹲吗？
There's some made-up exercise that somebody's told you that is going to be do this and this and this for you, or do a deadlift or do a bench press, all these made-up things.
有人告诉你一些虚构的练习，将为你做这个、这个、这个，或者做硬拉或卧推，所有这些虚构的事情。
And as I said, those things can be good, can be fun, can be interesting, can be important.
正如我所说，这些事情可以是好的，可以是有趣的，可以是有趣的，可以是重要的。
But what really is most important is can you still move your body?
但真正最重要的是你的身体还能动吗？
Can you express yourself maximally for as long into your lifetime as you possibly can?
您能在一生中尽可能长时间地最大限度地表达自己吗？
And people, I feel like they have to ask the question whether the thing that they're doing, this exercise, is it actually leading to that?
人们，我觉得他们必须问一个问题，他们正在做的事情，这个练习，是否真的会导致这个结果？
And in most cases, I think it's not.
在大多数情况下，我认为事实并非如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I came up in part through skateboarding.
我部分是通过滑板长大的。
That was my main focus in high school, up until about mid high school, and then I got into other things.
这是我高中时的主要关注点，直到高中中期，然后我开始从事其他事情。
In skateboarding, everything you're saying is especially true.
在滑板运动中，你所说的一切都特别正确。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The personality matches-
性格很匹配——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the way they skateboard, level of aggression, level of technicality, personality.
他们滑板的方式、攻击性程度、技术水平、个性。
Sometimes there's a mismatch.
有时会出现不匹配的情况。
Every vert skateboarder, big ramp skateboarder now will attest, everyone from Tony Hawk, because I've heard him say it, to everyone I know that there's a kid named Jimmy Wilkins who does everything faster, bigger, with more technical ability than anybody's ever seen.
每个垂直滑板手、大坡道滑板手现在都会向托尼·霍克的每个人证明，因为我听他说过，对我认识的每个人来说，有一个名叫吉米·威尔金斯的孩子，他做任何事情都比任何人都见过的更快、更大、技术能力更强。
He's a absolutely remarkable addition to the sport and a super nice kid.
他绝对是这项运动的杰出补充，也是一个超级好的孩子。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, great.
是的，太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
His mom's a ballerina.
他的妈妈是一名芭蕾舞演员。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Oh, yeah?
哦，是吗？
Amazing.
惊人的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he's got very loose hip joints.
而且他的髋关节非常松弛。
He actually guides the board with his back knee, so he can do a lot of things with no hands that most people have to grab to do.
他实际上用后膝盖引导滑板，所以他可以不用双手做很多大多数人必须抓住才能做的事情。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And his dad is an orchestra conductor.
他的父亲是一名乐团指挥。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if you were to make up a story-
所以如果你要编一个故事——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
about a highly technical-
关于一个高技术含量的——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
powerful, precise athlete, it would be Jimmy Wilkins.
强大而精确的运动员，那就是吉米·威尔金斯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He's won X Games.
他赢得了X Games。
He's astonishing to watch and so much fun to watch.
他的表现令人惊讶，而且非常有趣。
So skateboarding, it's very apparent.
所以滑板，这是非常明显的。
But then I was trying to think of some daily activities, so getting away from sport and exercise for a moment, and I was just thinking in my own life, if you wanted to understand my mom, you just have to see her gardening.
但后来我试图思考一些日常活动，所以暂时远离运动和锻炼，我只是在自己的生活中思考，如果你想了解我妈妈，你只需要看看她园艺。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The way she moves about her garden, the way she tends to it, she loves gardening.
她在花园里走动的方式、照料花园的方式，都表明她热爱园艺。
It's like her greatest.
这就像她最伟大的。
Well, I don't know if it's her greatest joy.
嗯，我不知道这是否是她最大的快乐。
It's one of her great joys.
这是她最大的快乐之一。
And so if you could just see her gardening for 10 minutes, you would understand her as a person completely.
所以如果你能看她园艺十分钟，你就会完全了解她这个人。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Amazing.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's amazing.
太棒了。
And I think she's a very good gardener, but the garden isn't the point.
我认为她是一个非常好的园丁，但花园不是重点。
It's how she moves about the garden.
这就是她在花园里走动的方式。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think that's true for certain people, how they cook.
我认为对于某些人来说，他们的烹饪方式确实如此。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Certain people, how they dance.
某些人，他们如何跳舞。
And I was going to say, if you want to understand people at a wedding or a party, just when the music comes on, you get a lot of insight into people's personality.
我想说，如果你想在婚礼或聚会上了解人们，当音乐响起时，你就能深入了解人们的个性。
And the best is always that older guy or gal or couple that look like they're just kind of sitting there like turtles, and then they get up and you're like, "Oh my goodness, they can really dance."
最好的总是那些年长的男人、女孩或情侣，他们看起来就像乌龟一样坐在那里，然后他们站起来，你会说，“哦，天哪，他们真的会跳舞。”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or they're just enjoying it completely, even if they're not great dancers.
或者他们只是完全享受它，即使他们不是伟大的舞者。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So let's talk about music and dance for a second.
让我们谈谈音乐和舞蹈。
I think we can't avoid this any longer.
我认为我们不能再避免这种情况了。
Your Instagram handle was, maybe still is, Fingermash.
你的 Instagram 账号曾经是，也许现在仍然是 Fingermash。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I thought that had something to do with sprinting, but I learned right before we sat down that you're a reggae DJ.
我以为这与短跑有关，但在我们坐下之前我才知道你是一位雷鬼 DJ。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you grew up around that.
你就是围绕着这个长大的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And sprinting has a lot of Jamaicans in it.
短跑项目中有很多牙买加人。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's the deal?
这是怎么回事？
Educate us.
教育我们。
How much of how you understand athletes and how they move, and people generally in the general population, how they move, relates to your understanding of music and rhythm because of this pressure piece, right?
你如何理解运动员和他们的移动方式，以及普通大众的移动方式，在多大程度上与你对音乐和节奏的理解有关，因为这个压力片，对吧？
That's a great song.
那是一首很棒的歌。
That's a great concert.
那是一场很棒的音乐会。
That's a great album.
那是一张很棒的专辑。
So.
所以。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I don't think I explicitly truly understood the connection until in hindsight.
我认为直到事后我才明确地真正理解了其中的联系。
Because when you're doing it, you're just doing it.
因为当你在做的时候，你就只是在做而已。
You're just living your life, and you're not really thinking about it.
你只是过着自己的生活，而你并没有真正考虑过它。
I'm doing these things.
我正在做这些事情。
They have creative, probably similarities, but I'm not really understanding those.
他们有创意，可能有相似之处，但我不太理解这些。
I'm not thinking about them.
我没有想他们。
I started DJing in 1984, so I would've been 15, and I stopped DJing in 2010.
我从 1984 年开始打碟，当时我已经 15 岁了，2010 年我停止了打碟。
I had a radio show in Calgary for 20 years called Level the Vibes.
我在卡尔加里举办了一个名为“Level the Vibes”的广播节目 20 年。
Shout out, Level the Vibes.
大声喊出来，调平氛围。
It still goes on to this day with my-
直到今天，我的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Level of Vibes?
共鸣水平？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Level the Vibes.
平衡共鸣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Level the Vibes.
平衡共鸣。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Level the Vibes-
调平共鸣-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay
好的
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
with my old DJ partner, Tullah.
和我的老 DJ 伙伴 Tullah 一起。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And, yeah, absolutely.
而且，是的，绝对是。
I was an artist as well, so when I was in school, everyone figured I would just be the artist.
我也是一名艺术家，所以当我在学校时，每个人都认为我只会成为一名艺术家。
I was an okay athlete, but not great.
我是一名不错的运动员，但不是很好。
I wasn't good enough to go into professional sport and make money.
我还不够优秀，无法从事职业运动并赚钱。
It was just art.
这只是艺术。
That was it.
就是这样。
And I went to art school.
我去了艺术学校。
And I figured out, this just isn't serving me anymore.
我发现，这不再为我服务了。
But the entire time, I'm doing this music thing, and I'm doing this sport thing.
但自始至终，我都在做音乐，也做运动。
And I think that all of these creative outlets are just all coming together.
我认为所有这些创意渠道都聚集在一起。
I've always been sort of a creative coach.
我一直是一名创意教练。
And I think this is how I actually got into sprinting, is I was a soccer player.
我认为这就是我真正进入短跑的方式，因为我是一名足球运动员。
Most of my friends were sprinters.
我的大多数朋友都是短跑运动员。
Most of those sprinters, because I was based in Calgary, there's a big Jamaican population there, so most of them were Jamaican.
大多数短跑运动员，因为我住在卡尔加里，那里有大量牙买加人，所以他们大多数都是牙买加人。
And I just got into sprinting through that.
我刚刚开始冲刺。
So I feel like, as I said, it wasn't an explicit connection that I understood at the time, but in hindsight, I could see, okay, me being a DJ and understanding rhythm and putting things together, and how putting these things together influenced other things less than maybe the people that I'm playing the music for, that really served my coaching ability 100%.
所以我觉得，正如我所说，这并不是我当时理解的明确联系，但事后看来，我可以看到，好吧，我是一名 DJ，理解节奏并将事物组合在一起，以及如何将这些东西组合在一起对其他事物的影响小于我为之演奏音乐的人，这确实 100% 发挥了我的指导能力。
100%.
100%。
As did my art.
As did my art.
It's really interesting in hindsight to look at those things and look at those, as you say, you call them the transition events and these other things, the other skills that masters in some of the domains have.
事后看来，看看这些事情真的很有趣，正如你所说，你称它们为过渡事件和其他事情，某些领域的大师拥有的其他技能。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What athletes nowadays, which athletes are you excited about because they seem to have this essence, we don't want to make them self-conscious, but that you're like, "Wow," there's really something there?
现在有哪些运动员，哪些运动员让你感到兴奋，因为他们似乎具有这种本质，我们不想让他们感到不自在，但你会说，“哇，”那里真的有东西吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Who are you excited about?
你对谁感到兴奋？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
In track specifically?
In track specifically?
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Or-
或者-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
well, any sport.
好吧，任何运动。
Sure.
当然。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Honestly, I'm not a massive sports fan.
老实说，我不是一个狂热的体育迷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I don't watch a lot of team sports.
我不看很多团队运动。
In fact, I watch no team sports other than soccer.
事实上，除了足球之外，我不看任何团队运动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And I watch soccer because that's the game I play.
我看足球因为那是我玩的游戏。
That's the game my father played.
这就是我父亲玩的游戏。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Who's your team?
Who's your team?
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Manchester City.
曼城。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so who's the greatest soccer player in the world in your mind for you?
那么，谁是您心目中世界上最伟大的足球运动员呢？
Not necessarily the one that everyone agrees is the best-
不一定是每个人都同意的最好的——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but whoever.
but whoever.
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Messi is the best player, and I think most people would agree that Lionel Messi, who's now playing for Inter Miami, is maybe even still, at the age of 35 or 36, the best player on the planet.
梅西是最好的球员，我想大多数人都会同意，现在效力于迈阿密国际的莱昂内尔·梅西在 35 或 36 岁的时候可能仍然是地球上最好的球员。
And just-
And just-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because of his expressiveness?
因为他的表现力？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Just the way in which he plays his game and expresses himself is just perfect.
他打球和表达自己的方式非常完美。
And in fact, this is a really good analogy to discuss what you're talking about here, because in the GOAT debate, the Greatest Of All Time debate, there's two players that come up in soccer, Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi.
事实上，这是一个很好的类比来讨论你在这里谈论的内容，因为在“山羊”辩论中，有史以来最伟大的辩论中，有两名足球运动员出现，克里斯蒂亚诺·罗纳尔多和莱昂内尔·梅西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maradona's no longer in the mix.
马拉多纳不再是其中的一员。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
No. And Pelé is no longer in the mix either.
不。贝利也不再在其中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It's these two.
It's these two.
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Ronaldo is 40, and Messi, I think, is 36.
C罗40岁了，我想梅西36岁了。
And I'd say probably if you took a poll of all of the millions of people that have an opinion on this, 45% of them or so would say Cristiano Ronaldo, and 55%, it's that close, 55% would say Messi.
我想说，如果你对所有对此有意见的数百万人进行民意调查，大约 45% 的人会说克里斯蒂亚诺·罗纳尔多，55% 的人会说梅西，非常接近，55% 的人会说梅西。
But both of them are so authentically themselves, it's crazy.
但他们俩都如此真实，这太疯狂了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Cristiano Ronaldo is perfect.
克里斯蒂亚诺·罗纳尔多是完美的。
He is the perfect Greek god.
他是完美的希腊神。
He's 40 years old.
他今年 40 岁了。
He's about 5% body fat.
He's about 5% body fat.
He's big, muscular, powerful, fast.
他身材高大、肌肉发达、力量大、速度快。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He's always low.
He's always low.
He shines.
他闪闪发光。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
He shines.
他闪闪发光。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He literally-
He literally-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100% he shines
100% he shines
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
he gleams.
he gleams.
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
He does.
他做到了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He gleams.
He gleams.
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And he plays that way, right?
他就是这样打球的，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And he's just got a certain personality that he brings to the field.
他将自己的个性带到了球场上。
And Messi's just like this.
而梅西就是这样的。
Just glides around and just elusive, and you can't see him, and oh, there he is over there, and just the things that he can do with his feet and the ball, and the interaction between his feet and the ball is just, oh, that's incredible.
只是在周围滑行，难以捉摸，你看不到他，哦，他就在那里，他可以用脚和球做一些事情，他的脚和球之间的相互作用就是，哦，这太不可思议了。
And for me, I align with more of the Messi.
对我来说，我更认同梅西。
I just love the creativity that a player like that has.
我就是喜欢这样的球员所具有的创造力。
Or in a little bit more up-to-date maybe, Steph Curry changed the game of basketball totally while or through being authentically himself.
或者用更现代的方式来说，斯蒂芬·库里完全改变了篮球比赛，同时或通过做真实的自己。
He's totally changed the league.
他彻底改变了联盟。
He's changed how everybody plays basketball and how everybody will play basketball forevermore.
他改变了每个人打篮球的方式，也改变了每个人永远打篮球的方式。
So I really, really appreciate incredibly beautiful and authentic movers.
所以我真的非常欣赏令人难以置信的美丽和真实的搬运工。
I don't like sport, but I love the movement part of it.
我不喜欢运动，但我喜欢其中的运动部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
As the son of an Argentine, my dad's a first-generation immigrant to the United States.
作为阿根廷人的儿子，我父亲是美国的第一代移民。
I really put myself to shame by not being a huge soccer fan, but I've got cousins that listen and watch at the dinner table, and you couldn't distract them if an atom bomb went off.
我真的很羞愧，因为我不是一个超级足球迷，但我有表兄弟在餐桌上听和看，即使原子弹爆炸，你也无法分散他们的注意力。
And his kids.
还有他的孩子们。
Such an interesting sport because of this notion that different teams and different players play it differently, right?
这是一项如此有趣的运动，因为不同的球队和不同的球员有不同的玩法，对吗？
Like the Brazilians, the rhythm to their game versus the Argentines are considered a little bit more traditionally more rigid among South Americans as a culture.
和巴西队一样，他们对阵阿根廷队的比赛节奏被认为在南美文化中传统上更加严格。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, a bit more rigid and a little bit more-
是的，更严格一点，更一点-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And a stiff upper lip
And a stiff upper lip
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
aggressive as well.
也具有攻击性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
More stiff upper lip.
More stiff upper lip.
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Argentinians take themselves very seriously.
阿根廷人非常重视自己。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I can say that as a half Argentine.
作为半个阿根廷人我可以这么说。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We're taught to take ourselves seriously as people.
我们被教导要认真对待自己作为人。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And at the same time, to enjoy life, but to take ourselves seriously.
同时，享受生活，但要认真对待自己。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, I think there's a lesson in that, too, right?
是的，我认为这也是一个教训，对吗？
Brazil has been the most successful national soccer team of all time.
巴西是有史以来最成功的国家足球队。
And you know, like you just said, you're not a soccer fan, but you know how Brazil plays soccer.
正如您刚才所说，您不是足球迷，但您知道巴西是如何踢足球的。
Everyone knows how Brazil plays soccer.
每个人都知道巴西是如何踢足球的。
They dance, and they play.
他们跳舞，他们玩耍。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And it's just this thing.
而这只是这件事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a party.
这是一个聚会。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It's a party.
这是一个聚会。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And that's how they play.
他们就是这样玩的。
And everyone kind of knows how Argentina plays as well.
每个人都知道阿根廷是如何踢球的。
You just said that.
你刚才就这么说了。
You're not a soccer fan, but you know that.
你不是足球迷，但你知道这一点。
Nobody knows how England plays.
没有人知道英格兰队是如何踢球的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
England hasn't won a World Cup since 1966.
自1966年以来，英格兰队还没有赢得过世界杯冠军。
They haven't won a major title since 1966, even though this is where the sport originated from.
自 1966 年以来，他们还没有赢得过大满贯冠军，尽管这是这项运动的发源地。
Everyone knows how Germany plays and how Germany has always played.
每个人都知道德国队是怎么踢球的，也知道德国队一直都是怎么踢球的。
There's a way.
有一个办法。
There's a German way of playing football.
有一种德国人的踢球方式。
There's a Brazilian way of playing football.
有一种巴西式的踢球方式。
There's an Argentinian way of playing football.
有阿根廷人的踢球方式。
There is no British way anymore.
已经没有英国的方式了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So I think there's something in that, right?
所以我认为这里面有一些东西，对吧？
There's a connection where every single person that comes up from the age of four years old, they know the way in which everybody in this country plays.
每个从四岁起的人都知道这个国家每个人的比赛方式，这是有联系的。
Oh, okay.
哦好的。
I get that.
我明白了。
And we're all on the same team and all contributing to the same system in the same way.
我们都在同一个团队中，都以相同的方式为同一个系统做出贡献。
Where in the UK, it's so disparate that no one understands it anymore.
在英国，情况是如此不同，以至于没有人能理解它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm just soaking this in because my mind immediately goes to art.
我只是沉浸其中，因为我的思绪立即转向艺术。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of my favorite movies is the movie "Basquiat" about Jean-Michel Basquiat, not the documentary.
我最喜欢的电影之一是关于让·米歇尔·巴斯奎特的电影《巴斯奎特》，而不是纪录片。
I mean, the cast is Gary Oldman, David Bowie.
我的意思是，演员是加里·奥德曼、大卫·鲍伊。
I mean, it's Dennis Hopper, Christopher Walken.
我是说，这是丹尼斯·霍珀，克里斯托弗·沃肯。
It's just an unbelievable cast.
这只是一个令人难以置信的演员阵容。
And the fact that Basquiat was part Haitian, he was in New York at a time when New York was pretty gritty and brought that together in his art.
事实上，巴斯奎特有海地血统，他在纽约的时候，纽约相当坚韧，并将其融入到他的艺术中。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was one part graffiti, modern art, and had this kind of tribal component that people made more of than they probably should have.
它的一部分是涂鸦，是现代艺术，并且具有这种部落成分，人们制作得超出了他们应有的程度。
And you could say the same thing about Andy Warhol or about Chuck Close.
你也可以对安迪·沃霍尔或查克·克洛斯说同样的话。
When people are just being themselves, but they're also taking their ancestry-
当人们只是做自己的时候，他们也在继承自己的祖先——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and they're taking their personal history, which includes their ancestry, and they're putting it into their art or their sport, spectacular things happen.
他们把自己的个人历史，包括他们的祖先，融入到他们的艺术或运动中，壮观的事情发生了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So along those lines, and this is a somewhat controversial topic, but I'm just going to go right into it because I think everyone wonders about this.
因此，沿着这些思路，这是一个有点争议的话题，但我将直接进入它，因为我认为每个人都想知道这一点。
I'll say this directly.
我就直接说这个吧。
Why are there fewer white strength and speed champion athletes?
为什么白人力量和速度冠军运动员越来越少？
In fact, if you hang around track and field long enough, you'll hear, "That's the third fastest white woman.
事实上，如果你在田径场待得足够长，你就会听到，“这是第三快的白人女性。
That's the second fastest white guy." People are using very specific language, but we could put it differently.
这是第二快的白人。”人们使用非常具体的语言，但我们可以用不同的方式表达。
You got a lot of fast Jamaicans.
你们有很多速度很快的牙买加人。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's the deal?
这是怎么回事？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is it genetic contribution to fiber type?
遗传因素对纤维类型有影响吗？
Let's also talk about calf belly length, which turns out to not be about calf belly length at all.
我们还要谈谈小腿肚长度，事实证明这根本不是小腿肚长度的问题。
What I'm saying there is people with, quote-unquote, "small calves" tend to be fast runners.
我的意思是，那些拥有“小腿肚”的人往往跑得很快。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's the deal?
这是怎么回事？
And I realize why this is a controversial topic, but it's so obvious-
我意识到为什么这是一个有争议的话题，但它是如此明显-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that it's almost silly to avoid at this point.
在这一点上避免几乎是愚蠢的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
How can you not have the conversation?
怎么能不进行对话呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Let's have a conversation about it.
我们来谈谈吧。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It is obvious.
这是显而易见的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's obvious.
这是显而易见的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what's the deal?
那么到底是怎么回事呢？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Well, as in all things, when we're having discussions around topics like this, it's both nature and nurture.
嗯，就像所有事情一样，当我们围绕这样的话题进行讨论时，这既是先天因素，也是后天因素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It's primarily, in this case, nature.
在这种情况下，主要是自然。
If you don't have the genetic capacity to run fast, you won't run fast.
如果你没有跑得快的遗传能力，你就不会跑得快。
Sorry.
对不起。
You just don't.
你只是不这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You don't have enough type 2 fibers.
您没有足够的 2 型光纤。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Whatever it is.
不管是什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Proportion of type 2 fibers.
2 型纤维的比例。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It could be limb length.
可能是肢体长度。
It could be joint structure.
可能是关节结构。
Typically, faster people have tighter, smaller joints.
通常，速度更快的人的关节更紧、更小。
Typically, faster people have longer tendons and smaller muscle bellies.
通常，速度更快的人有更长的肌腱和更小的肌肉腹部。
Typically, faster people have more type 2X fibers.
通常，速度更快的人拥有更多的 2X 型纤维。
Typically, faster people are slightly taller.
通常，速度更快的人会稍微高一些。
So all of these contributing genetic factors, if you do not have those things, I mean, that's not even talking about some of the hormonal factors, some of the endocrinological factors, some of the neural factors that we may not even understand yet.
因此，所有这些促成遗传因素，如果你没有这些因素，我的意思是，这甚至还不是在谈论一些我们可能还不了解的荷尔蒙因素、一些内分泌因素、一些神经因素。
There's all of these genetic determinants that play a part in what you are able to do.
所有这些遗传决定因素都会影响你的能力。
So first and foremost, yes, that is a fact, that statistically, almost every single human being that's ever ran sub-10 seconds is a Black athlete, evolutionarily from maybe, say, West Africa.
所以首先也是最重要的，是的，这是一个事实，从统计数据来看，几乎每个跑过 10 秒以下的人都是黑人运动员，从进化上来说，可能是来自西非。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let me ask you.
让我问你。
Sorry for interrupting, but has a white person ever broken the 10-second mark in the 100 meters?
抱歉打扰一下，但是有白人在 100 米赛跑中打破过 10 秒大关吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
There's been a few now.
现在已经有几个了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
There's been a few.
已经有几个了。
So it was first Christophe Lemaitre, I believe in either 2017 or 2018, was the first white athlete to break 10 seconds.
所以，我相信在 2017 年或 2018 年，克里斯托夫·勒梅特 (Christophe Lemaitre) 是第一个打破 10 秒的白人运动员。
And then there's been I feel like there's probably five, maybe six Asians now who have broken 10 seconds.
然后我觉得现在可能有五个、也许六个亚洲人打破了 10 秒。
Everybody else, and that's close to 200, are Black.
其他人（接近 200 人）都是黑人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And of course, there's the nature component too, which is if you come from a country where sprinting-
当然，还有自然因素，那就是如果你来自一个短跑的国家——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is a popular sport, or soccer is a popular sport, or distance running is a popular sport, then there's going to be a selection bias there.
是一项受欢迎的运动，或者足球是一项受欢迎的运动，或者长跑是一项受欢迎的运动，那么就会存在选择偏差。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we're taking those into play.
所以我们正在考虑这些。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I would say that if you don't have the genetics, good luck.
我想说，如果你没有遗传，祝你好运。
You're not even in the room.
你甚至不在房间里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
The genetics will get you in the room.
遗传学会让你进入房间。
Once you do in that room, what that nature is, what that upbringing is, what that environment is, that is going to determine what you do with your genetics.
一旦你在那个房间里做了什么，那个自然是什么，那个教养是什么，那个环境是什么，这将决定你用你的基因做什么。
So for example, a massive percentage, and I don't know what this is, but it's big, a massive percentage of the male athletes who have ran sub 2:10 in a marathon come from the same little district in Kenya.
举个例子，很大一部分，我不知道这是什么，但它很大，在马拉松比赛中跑进 2 分 10 秒的男性运动员中，很大一部分来自肯尼亚的同一个小地区。
It's very, very high percentage.
这是非常非常高的百分比。
And part of that is not only their genetics, but the environment in which they're growing up in.
其中一部分不仅是他们的基因，还有他们成长的环境。
Every single person that they know is a marathoner.
他们认识的每个人都是马拉松运动员。
Every single person they know are running in excess of 100 miles a week.
他们认识的每个人每周跑步的次数都超过 100 英里。
Every single person they know of, these are all of the things that we need to do to be this, right?
他们认识的每个人，这些都是我们需要做的事情，对吧？
So they're seeing that from the day that they're born.
所以他们从出生那天起就看到了这一点。
So for sure, environment really matters.
所以可以肯定的是，环境确实很重要。
What you do with that nature really, really matters.
你利用这种本性所做的事情真的非常重要。
But if you don't have the genetic capacity to begin with, just as I said, you don't have any chance at all.
但如果你一开始就没有遗传能力，就像我说的，你根本就没有任何机会。
And as you said, Jamaica, sprinting is massive in Jamaica.
正如你所说，牙买加，短跑在牙买加很盛行。
It's really, really important.
这真的非常非常重要。
I would encourage you to do one thing.
我会鼓励你做一件事。
Go to Champs at one point.
一度前往香榭丽舍大街。
If you like track meets-
如果你喜欢田径运动会——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
this is the best track meet in the world.
这是世界上最好的田径运动会。
Champs is the Jamaican high school national championships, and it's in Kingston, and it is incredible.
冠军赛是牙买加高中全国锦标赛，在金斯敦举办，真是令人难以置信。
Absolutely incredible.
绝对令人难以置信。
The stands are packed, so there's 45,000, 50,000 people.
看台上挤满了人，有 45,000、50,000 人。
It's loud, it's noisy, it's boisterous, and kids are just killing themselves trying to beat each other.
声音很大，很吵闹，很吵闹，孩子们互相殴打，简直就是自杀。
It's just an amazing event over the course of three or four days.
这只是三四天内发生的令人惊奇的事件。
Go to the last couple days of Champs and just watch that, and you just see, ah, I understand why Jamaicans are so fast.
看看冠军赛的最后几天，你就会发现，啊，我明白为什么牙买加人这么快了。
If this is the environment in which many of them are operating within as they come up.
如果这就是他们中的许多人出现时所处的环境。
So I'm good friends with Donovan Bailey.
所以我和多诺万·贝利是好朋友。
Donovan Bailey was a 1996 Olympic champion.
多诺万·贝利是 1996 年奥运会冠军。
He was a world record holder in the 100 meters for a while.
他曾一度是100米世界纪录保持者。
He's of Jamaican descent, grew up in Jamaica until he was 12.
他有牙买加血统，在牙买加长大直到 12 岁。
He moved to Canada in 1981, which is the same year that I moved to Canada.
他于 1981 年移居加拿大，同年我也移居加拿大。
So we've talked about this a lot, and he said, "If you do well at Champs, you're set.
所以我们已经讨论了很多这个问题，他说：“如果你在冠军赛上表现出色，那么你就已经做好了。
You're going to do really well as a professional sprinter, because there's nothing that has more pressure in it than actually competing well at Jamaican high school national championships."
作为一名职业短跑运动员，你会做得非常好，因为没有什么比在牙买加高中全国锦标赛上取得好成绩更大的压力了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So understand what that environment does for the ability for your typical Jamaican athlete to succeed at higher levels.
因此，请了解这种环境对典型牙买加运动员在更高水平上取得成功的能力有何影响。
And all of those pockets like this exist all over the world, whether it's in Russia or whether it's in Kenya, whether it's in West Africa, or whether it's in, right now we're seeing some interesting things in Norway, in some of the endurance sports, right?
所有这些口袋都存在于世界各地，无论是在俄罗斯还是在肯尼亚，无论是在西非，还是现在我们在挪威的一些耐力运动中看到了一些有趣的事情，对吧？
So it's for sure, nurture's really, really important, but genetics gets you in the room.
所以可以肯定的是，后天培养确实非常重要，但基因却能让你进入房间。
What you do within that room, that's up to you and your environment that you create.
你在那个房间里做什么，取决于你和你创造的环境。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's so interesting how these different cultures shape the future of a sport or an endeavor.
这些不同的文化如何塑造一项运动或一项事业的未来是非常有趣的。
In China, kids are highly incentivized to learn a lot and test a lot in math and sciences.
在中国，孩子们非常愿意在数学和科学方面学习和进行大量测试。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they're really big on neuroscience in China.
他们在中国非常重视神经科学。
I think these nature-nurture questions are super interesting.
我认为这些先天与后天的问题非常有趣。
It sounds like Jamaica is still churning out a lot of excellent sprinters, because of the huge numbers that are fed to the sport and can essentially grow up, their nervous systems are shaped around sprinting.
听起来牙买加仍然在培养许多优秀的短跑运动员，因为大量的人都在这项运动中成长，他们的神经系统是围绕短跑而形成的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Couple that with any number of different features, and you talked about short calf bellies, right?
再加上许多不同的特征，你谈到了短小腿肚，对吗？
This is the fear of every bodybuilder, right?
这是每个健美运动员的恐惧吧？
They want long calf bellies.
他们想要长长的小腿肚。
But short calf bellies make people faster and better jumpers, not because the calf is short, but because-
但短小腿肚让人跳得更快更好，并不是因为小腿短，而是因为——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Because the tendon is long.
因为肌腱很长。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Could you-
你能——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Essentially, each muscle is really a muscle tendon unit, and if you've got a longer tendon relative to your muscle, effectively you're a little bit more plyometric.
从本质上讲，每块肌肉实际上都是一个肌腱单位，如果你的肌腱相对于你的肌肉更长，那么实际上你的增强式训练效果会更好一些。
You can store and release energy a little bit more effectively than somebody who has a shorter tendon and a longer or bigger, fatter, thicker muscle.
与肌腱较短、肌肉较长或较大、较胖、较厚的人相比，您可以更有效地储存和释放能量。
So really if you want to be fast, you want long, skinny tendons and small little muscle bellies.
所以，如果你想跑得快，你就需要长而细的肌腱和小而小的肌肉腹部。
So yeah.
所以是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what serves aesthetics sometimes doesn't necessarily serve the sport and vice versa.
因此，服务于美观的东西有时并不一定服务于运动，反之亦然。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if you had to pick one, you'd want to be able to jump and run faster.
因此，如果你必须选择一个，你会希望能够跳得更快并且跑得更快。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Would you?
你愿意吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
I suppose that having very short calves would be weird, but who wouldn't want to run faster or jump higher for all sorts of reasons?
我想小腿很短会很奇怪，但谁不想因为各种原因跑得更快或跳得更高呢？
Just be so much fun.
就这么有趣吧。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I don't have a lot of hops, but this is actually a time to talk about Knees Over Toes Guy.
我没有太多的跳跃，但这实际上是时候谈论膝盖超过脚趾的家伙了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Ben Patrick.
本·帕特里克.
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He fought a lot of adversity to encourage people, including a lot of exercise physiologists and the people who do rehab from various aspects, that putting your knees out over your toes is okay.
他与很多逆境作斗争，鼓励人们，包括很多运动生理学家和从各个方面做康复的人，把膝盖放在脚趾上是可以的。
Caught a lot of heat, but I think the fact that he's so skilled at jumping and dunking and back bent and landing and back bends and things of that sort puts them all to shame, frankly.
受到了很多热捧，但坦白说，我认为他在跳跃、扣篮、后弯、落地、后弯等方面如此熟练，这让他们都感到羞愧。
I think most people understand now that Ben is really onto something with this.
我想大多数人现在都明白本确实对此很感兴趣。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of the things that he's a big proponent of is a lot of eccentric loading, but also not being afraid to get that knee way out over the toe.
他大力支持的事情之一是大量的偏心负载，但也不害怕膝盖超出脚趾。
What is the deal with Running form, as it were.
可以说，跑步形式是怎么回事。
Is the idea that if you can get your knee higher, you can stride further?
如果你能把膝盖抬高，你就能迈得更远吗？
And then when we talk about knee back toward butt, how far back?
然后当我们谈论膝盖向后朝向臀部时，向后多远？
Are we supposed to kick our own glutes when we stride?
当我们迈步时，我们应该踢自己的臀部吗？
What is a proper running stride, or is it going to vary by structure?
什么是正确的跑步步幅，或者它会因结构而异？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Well, that's a big question.
嗯，这是一个大问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Explain that in five seconds.
用五秒钟解释一下。
I'm just kidding.
我只是在开玩笑。
But for those of us who want to run a bit faster, do some-
但对于我们这些想要跑得更快一点的人来说，做一些——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
stride work-
跨步工作-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
should I be reaching with my front leg and pulling myself forward on the ground?
我是否应该伸出前腿并将自己向前拉到地面上？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100% not.
100% 不是。
Please do not do that.
请不要那样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, I feel all right.
好吧，我感觉还好。
And I shouldn't be just quickening my turnover of a jogging stride.
我不应该只是加快慢跑步伐的速度。
So-
所以——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
That's part of it.
这是其中的一部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
First of all, let's start at the start and understand the way you move is going to be governed by the things that you are moving.
首先，让我们从头开始，了解您移动的方式将受到您正在移动的物体的控制。
So how you move is governed by the stuff that you've got.
因此，你的移动方式取决于你所拥有的东西。
So you cannot move in a way in which your body will not allow.
因此，您不能以身体不允许的方式移动。
So if you have a certain structure of your joints, or a certain mobility structure, or a certain genetic makeup, or a certain stiffness, or a certain muscle fiber type, all of those things come together.
因此，如果你有一定的关节结构，或者一定的活动结构，或者一定的基因组成，或者一定的硬度，或者一定的肌肉纤维类型，所有这些东西都会结合在一起。
They all coalesce to sort of govern your motor strategy.
它们全部结合在一起来控制你的运动策略。
So the last thing that I would want you to do, Andrew, is to copy Usain Bolt's sprinting stride.
因此，安德鲁，我最不希望你做的就是模仿尤塞恩·博尔特的冲刺步伐。
Because Usain Bolt is 6'5", 215 pounds.
因为尤塞恩·博尔特身高 6 英尺 5 英寸，体重 215 磅。
He's a little bit more dynamic than you.
他比你更有活力一点。
He's probably got slightly longer Achilles tendons than you.
他的跟腱可能比你稍长。
He's probably got tighter, smaller joints than you.
他的关节可能比你更紧、更小。
He's probably a lot more elastic than you are.
他可能比你更有弹性。
He's probably a little bit more coordinated than you are.
他可能比你更协调一些。
So why would I want you to try to copy that?
那么我为什么要你尝试复制它呢？
So my job, first and foremost, is to understand how you should or how you could move based upon the constraints that you have, based upon what are known as your action capabilities.
因此，我的工作首先是根据您所受到的限制，根据所谓的行动能力，了解您应该如何或如何行动。
So your force capacity, your mobility capacity, all of these things that make up who you are.
所以你的力量能力，你的机动能力，所有这些都构成了你的身份。
Your height, your weight, your joint length, your joint ratios, all of these different things.
你的身高、体重、关节长度、关节比例，所有这些不同的东西。
Your limb ratios.
你的肢体比例。
So first, it's understanding that we are governed by the stuff that we have.
所以首先，我们要明白我们是受我们所拥有的东西支配的。
So we should never be trying to copy someone else, first and foremost.
因此，我们首先不应该试图复制别人。
Number two is then we should have some sort of understanding of what is the common way to do a thing.
第二点是我们应该对做某事的常见方法有一定的了解。
And we can probably simplify this.
我们或许可以简化这个过程。
We kind of know a little bit about what a model looks like for a back squat, or for a deadlift, or for you choose your exercise.
我们对后深蹲、硬拉或您选择的锻炼方式的模型有一些了解。
We kind of have a model for that, whether that's a mathematical model or whether that model was based upon the average of a bunch of elite movers.
我们有一个模型，无论是数学模型还是基于一群精英推动者的平均值。
We kind of understand what, quote unquote, "optimal" is mathematically.
我们有点理解什么是数学上的“最佳”。
But we also have to understand that we are not math.
但我们也必须明白，我们不是数学。
We are biological beings that will all move in slightly varying ways, depending upon the stuff that we are moving.
我们是生物体，其移动方式略有不同，具体取决于我们移动的物体。
So yes, we look at that model, but we also look at what we've got, and we try to find somewhere in the middle that serves us.
所以，是的，我们研究了这个模型，但我们也研究了我们所拥有的东西，并试图找到为我们服务的中间位置。
So in sprinting, and probably in most activities, we try to identify what are the non-negotiables.
因此，在冲刺中，也许在大多数活动中，我们试图确定什么是不可协商的。
What are the rules here?
这里有什么规则？
Like in squatting, we know what the rules are, right?
就像深蹲一样，我们知道规则是什么，对吗？
We don't want to bend to one side.
我们不想向一侧屈服。
We don't want to overly flex our spine.
我们不想过度弯曲我们的脊柱。
We don't want to anteriorly rotate our shoulders.
我们不想向前旋转肩膀。
We don't want to have knee valgus, where our knees come in and touch each other.
我们不想出现膝盖外翻，即膝盖内陷并相互接触。
We don't want to have super wide feet.
我们不想拥有超宽的脚。
We don't want to have internally rotated feet when we're squatting.
当我们深蹲时，我们不希望脚发生内旋。
All of these things that we know that we don't do, they govern the things that we can do.
所有这些我们知道我们不做的事情，它们决定了我们可以做的事情。
So in sprinting, we have something similar.
所以在短跑中，我们也有类似的东西。
We don't know as much about sprinting as we do in some of the more, or maybe the less complex movements, more discrete movements, like a squat, like a deadlift, like a power clean.
我们对短跑的了解不如我们对一些更复杂的动作、更离散的动作的了解，比如深蹲、硬拉、高翻。
The sprinting is coordinative.
冲刺是协调的。
It continues.
它还在继续。
It's rhythmic, so it's a little bit harder for us to actually study.
它是有节奏的，所以我们实际学习起来有点困难。
But we do know that, as you said, one of the things you said was high knees.
但我们确实知道，正如您所说，您所说的其中一件事就是高膝盖。
And most of the elite sprinters converge upon similar positions when their knee is super high.
大多数精英短跑运动员在膝盖过高时都会集中在类似的位置上。
And that knee gets up to about waist height, just almost belly button height, when they're running as fast as they can.
当他们以最快的速度奔跑时，膝盖会达到腰部高度，几乎到肚脐高度。
So we know if we want to be fast, we got to try and bring our knees up.
所以我们知道，如果我们想跑得快，我们就必须尝试抬起膝盖。
And we talked about that before, too, right?
我们之前也讨论过这个，对吧？
The difference between striding and sprinting, and jogging and running, where jogging and running happens behind the center mass, and striding and sprinting is in front of the center mass.
跨步和冲刺、慢跑和跑步之间的区别是，慢跑和跑步发生在中心质量的后面，而跨步和冲刺发生在中心质量的前面。
So maybe first and foremost, we think about bringing the knee up.
所以也许首先也是最重要的，我们考虑抬起膝盖。
Knee's got to be a little bit higher.
膝盖一定要高一点。
We have to think about being in front.
我们必须考虑走在前面。
We know that for sure, every elite sprinter sets up a very stiff spring on the ground by being very, very strong and stiff and rigid through the foot-ankle complex.
我们知道，每一位精英短跑运动员都通过脚踝复合体非常非常强壮、僵硬和僵硬，在地面上建立了一个非常坚硬的弹簧。
So you have to be stiff on impact.
所以你必须在撞击时保持僵硬。
So think about the analogy that I give all the time is if you think about you're a boxer, or you're boxing and you're hitting a heavy bag, what would you do with your wrist and your fist?
所以想想我一直给出的类比，如果你认为你是一名拳击手，或者你正在拳击并且你正在击打一个很重的沙袋，你会用你的手腕和拳头做什么？
You'd squeeze it and hold it rigidly.
你会挤压它并紧紧握住它。
Because if you didn't, it would really hurt, and if you're trying to hit it as hard as you can, you have to be squeezed.
因为如果你不这样做，就会很痛，而且如果你想尽全力去打它，你就必须被挤压。
It's the same thing with sprinting.
短跑也是如此。
Because the forces, by the way, are pretty similar.
顺便说一句，因为力量非常相似。
An elite boxer hits a heavy bag and somewhere in excess of five times their body weight in less than three hundredths of a second.
一名精英拳击手在不到百分之三秒的时间内击中一个重物，击中超过其体重五倍的地方。
It's exactly the same as sprinting.
这与短跑完全相同。
An elite sprinting is in excess of five times their body weight in less than three hundredths of a second time to peak force on ground contact.
优秀的短跑运动员可以在不到百分之三秒的时间内超过其体重的五倍，从而在接触地面时达到峰值力量。
So knees are up, and we're very stiff on the ground.
所以膝盖向上，我们在地面上非常僵硬。
And the third thing is if you do not have an effective hip extension pattern, you just can't move well, never mind run fast.
第三件事是，如果你没有有效的髋部伸展模式，你就无法很好地移动，更不用说跑得快了。
You have to have the ability for your knee to come behind your butt.
你必须有能力让膝盖位于臀部后面。
Now, that's a hard thing to define.
现在，这是一件很难定义的事情。
It's a hard thing to quantify.
这是一件很难量化的事情。
People ask me all the time, "What do you mean?
人们总是问我：“你的意思是什么？
What is a good pattern?" If I talk about the hip extension pattern and the importance of that, it's not just range of motion.
什么是好的模式？”如果我谈论髋部伸展模式及其重要性，它不仅仅是运动范围。
So that's the one that you alluded to is how far behind.
这就是你提到的落后了多远。
Well, the further the knee gets behind the center mass, the more the range of motion.
好吧，膝盖距离中心质量越远，运动范围就越大。
It's not just that.
不仅如此。
Because in sprinting, when you're upright especially, you want to almost limit the amount of time that the knee travels behind the butt.
因为在短跑中，尤其是当你直立时，你几乎想要限制膝盖在屁股后面移动的时间。
Because the longer that the knee travels behind the butt, the longer you're on the ground, the slower you are.
因为膝盖在屁股后面移动的时间越长，你在地面上的时间就越长，你的速度就越慢。
So range of motion for you or for me or for Rob or for anyone listening, for running, is going to be very different from a Noah Lyles or an Andre De Grasse or a Usain Bolt.
因此，对于你、我、罗布或任何倾听的人来说，跑步时的运动范围将与诺亚·莱尔斯、安德烈·德格拉斯或尤塞恩·博尔特有很大不同。
But the qualitative aspect of all of those things is still really important, and the way in which I judge the quality of a pattern is kind of fivefold.
但所有这些事情的定性方面仍然非常重要，我判断模式质量的方式有五种。
Do you have the force capacity to be able to extend your hip?
您有足够的力量来伸展臀部吗？
Are you strong enough?
你够坚强吗？
Can you actually get your knee behind the hip?
你真的能把膝盖放在臀部后面吗？
And many people just can't do that because they're not strong enough.
而很多人就是做不到这一点，因为他们不够强大。
Do you have the velocity capacity?
你有速度能力吗？
Can you actually move your limb fast enough to get it behind?
你真的能足够快地移动你的肢体以使其落后吗？
Do you have the range of motion?
你有活动范围吗？
And most team sport athletes, if I'm going in and talking to coaches who work in team sports, that's the low-hanging fruit.
对于大多数团队运动运动员来说，如果我要与从事团队运动的教练交谈，那就是唾手可得的成果。
They just don't have the range.
他们只是没有范围。
So number three is the range.
所以第三个是范围。
Number four is the control.
第四是控制。
And if you're a kid, if you're a 14-year-old, you probably don't have the control of that pattern.
如果你是个孩子，如果你是 14 岁的孩子，你可能无法控制这种模式。
And five is, can you do it over and over again?
五是，你能一遍又一遍地这样做吗？
Can you actually repeat it?
你真的能重复一遍吗？
So when we're looking at the judging of a pattern, it's force, velocity, repeatability, control, and range of motion, is those five things.
因此，当我们判断一个模式时，它的力量、速度、重复性、控制力和运动范围就是这五个因素。
So that's a long answer to what I could talk about for literally days is what are the things that we're looking at for sprinting, the ability to get the thigh up high, the ability to contact the ground really aggressively, and the ability to get the thigh or the knee behind the hip with high quality.
这是一个很长的答案，我可以在几天之内谈论的就是我们在短跑中所关注的东西，将大腿抬高的能力，真正积极地接触地面的能力，以及高质量地将大腿或膝盖放在臀部后面的能力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What are your thoughts on skipping rope?
你对跳绳有什么看法？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
I think the ability to coordinate flexion-extension at the ankle, knee, and hip is really important.
我认为协调踝关节、膝关节和髋关节屈伸的能力非常重要。
So you're coordinating the movement pattern at the ankle, at the knee, and the hip, and coordinating all of those in space and time.
所以你要协调脚踝、膝盖和臀部的运动模式，并在空间和时间上协调所有这些。
And the ability to do that, as we've talked about, is one of the things that we lose as we age.
正如我们所讨论的，做到这一点的能力是我们随着年龄的增长而失去的东西之一。
So skipping is one of those things that can quite simply work on that coordinative aspect.
因此，跳跃是可以非常简单地在协调方面发挥作用的事情之一。
What I see too often, though, is people skipping incorrectly and skipping only through their ankles and not really doing a lot through the knees and the hip, and they just sort of plantarflex, dorsiflex, plantarflex, dorsiflex.
然而，我经常看到的是，人们跳错了，只跳到脚踝，而没有真正通过膝盖和臀部做很多动作，他们只是跖屈、背屈、跖屈、背屈。
So they just push up on their toes, and they come off.
所以他们只需抬起脚趾，然后就下来了。
Where we need to understand that plantarflexion or going up onto your toes is in dynamic movements, a reflexive movement.
我们需要了解跖屈或抬起脚趾是动态运动，是一种反射运动。
It's not a volitional movement.
这不是一个意志运动。
It's not a movement that we should be thinking about or trying to control.
这不是我们应该思考或试图控制的运动。
All we should be thinking about is just bouncing as if we're bouncing on a trampoline.
我们应该考虑的只是弹跳，就像我们在蹦床上弹跳一样。
Just bounce, bounce, bounce.
只是弹跳，弹跳，弹跳。
And actually keeping our foot as stiff as we can.
实际上，我们要尽可能保持脚部僵硬。
Just like skipping for me, I just equate it to hitting a heavy bag over and over and over again.
就像跳绳对我来说，我只是把它等同于一遍又一遍地击打一个沉重的袋子。
It's pop, pop, pop.
这是流行音乐，流行音乐，流行音乐。
You can't do that if you're on your toes.
如果你保持警觉，你就无法做到这一点。
You want to be on the balls of your feet, like right on the base of your toes.
你想要用脚掌着地，就像脚趾根部那样。
Then it's a lot easier to just bounce.
然后弹起来就容易多了。
Think about it bouncing.
想想它的弹跳。
So I think it's a great activity from that perspective, is sort of just teaching how to coordinate what's called the amortization of all of the joints of the lower body.
所以我认为从这个角度来看这是一项很棒的活动，有点像教导如何协调所谓的下半身所有关节的摊销。
And then as far as how to do it, what to do it, I just feel just do it.
然后至于怎么做，做什么，我只是觉得就做吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Have some fun with it.
玩得开心吧。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Do it with heavy ropes.
用重绳子来做。
Do it with the light ropes.
用轻绳来做。
Have fun with it.
玩得开心。
I think there's probably too many times that we're constrained by what people like me say to do, what is right.
我想，我们可能很多时候都被像我这样的人所说的、正确的事情所限制。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Just have fun, man.
玩得开心吧，伙计。
Just find a way in which to express yourself and enjoy the movement.
只要找到一种表达自己并享受运动的方式即可。
If you love jumping rope or hopping rope, go do that.
如果你喜欢跳绳或跳绳，那就去做吧。
Just make sure that you try to understand what doing it well looks like or feels like so you can do it well.
只要确保您尝试了解做好这件事是什么样子或感觉如何，这样您就可以做好它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I like to put on an album and skip for the album, and then somehow just let the music, when I feel moved to skip different, faster or high knees or something, let that dictate.
我喜欢放一张专辑并跳过专辑，然后以某种方式让音乐，当我觉得想要跳过不同的、更快的或高膝盖或其他东西时，让音乐来决定。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because then there's this external coach/rhythm.
因为那就有外部教练/节奏。
It's something I like.
这是我喜欢的东西。
I'm not thinking about it too much.
我没有想太多。
And then next thing I know, I've got 35 minutes of "cardio" done with a piece of plastic.
接下来我知道，我用一块塑料完成了 35 分钟的“有氧运动”。
I don't know, there's something very satisfying about doing that.
我不知道，做这件事有一些非常令人满意的事情。
I don't know why.
我不知道为什么。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
No, I love it.
不，我喜欢它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
As you can probably tell, I'm getting more and more interested in things that draw on more aspects of the nervous system, mind and body-
正如你可能知道的那样，我对涉及神经系统、思想和身体更多方面的事物越来越感兴趣——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for exercise.
用于锻炼。
Because while I love the gym, I think it can be too linear and too rigid.
因为虽然我喜欢健身房，但我认为它可能过于线性且过于僵化。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think it leads to rigidity in one's thinking.
我认为这会导致一个人的思维僵化。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that might come as a surprise to a lot of people thinking, oh, all these protocols have to be done.
这可能会让很多人感到惊讶，因为他们认为，哦，所有这些协议都必须完成。
There's a fundamentally correct way to do most things, like get morning sunlight in your eyes.
做大多数事情都有一个基本正确的方法，比如让早晨的阳光照射到你的眼睛上。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But if it's five minutes or it's seven minutes, depends on how bright it is and what time of year.
但是五分钟还是七分钟，取决于它的亮度以及一年中的什么时间。
I feel like the biology is flexible.
我觉得生物学是灵活的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And learning to go by feel can be very helpful.
学习凭感觉行事会非常有帮助。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
I think we lose that, too, right?
我想我们也失去了它，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
We got to remember, principles are few and methods are many.
我们必须记住，原则很少，方法很多。
There's many ways to do different things, as long as they align with the principles.
做不同事情的方法有很多种，只要它们符合原则即可。
Just think about what the principles are, and then just be creative in choosing the methods that work for you.
只需思考原则是什么，然后创造性地选择适合您的方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
This is where peer-reviewed science unfortunately can't measure every variable.
遗憾的是，同行评审的科学无法测量每个变量。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
People say, "Well, has there been a study comparing 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes or 30 minutes of morning sunlight?" No.
人们会说：“有没有一项研究比较过 5 分钟、10 分钟、15 分钟、20 分钟或 30 分钟的早晨阳光？”不。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because you're lucky if you get 100 subjects.
因为如果你能考到 100 门科目就很幸运了。
You got to pay those subjects.
你必须支付这些科目的费用。
You got to get them to come in.
你必须让他们进来。
You're tracking sleep.
您正在追踪睡眠。
You use 10,000 lux in one group and control light in another.
您在一组中使用 10,000 勒克斯，并在另一组中控制光。
You just don't have the option to work through every-
你只是没有选择解决所有问题-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
variable in anything.
凡事都有变数。
Even a dose-response study of a drug, you can't account for nutrition and the drug, and then people go, "Well, then how can we trust any of this?" Standard science, as it were, reduction of science, is just one lens through these things.
即使是药物的剂量反应研究，你也无法解释营养和药物，然后人们会说，“那么我们怎么能相信这些呢？”标准科学，可以说是科学的简化，只是透过这些事物的一个镜头。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That doesn't mean that people's experience is necessarily smarter than data.
这并不意味着人们的经验一定比数据更聪明。
It just means that data have to mesh with experience and experience with data.
这只是意味着数据必须与经验以及数据的经验相结合。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, I think data can inform the decisions we make, but they are not the decisions that we make.
是的，我认为数据可以为我们做出的决定提供信息，但它们并不是我们做出的决定。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
We use that data, but what's most important is how all of these data points, all this information, comes together.
我们使用这些数据，但最重要的是所有这些数据点、所有这些信息如何组合在一起。
It's the relationships and the interactions between the component parts which is more important than the individual component parts themselves.
组成部分之间的关系和相互作用比各个组成部分本身更重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So we have to understand what those relationships are.
所以我们必须了解这些关系是什么。
That's the thing we need to focus a little bit more on.
这是我们需要更加关注的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to talk about weight training.
我想谈谈重量训练。
What do sprinters do for their weight training?
短跑运动员如何进行重量训练？
And if somebody like me is interested in becoming a faster runner, maybe even sprinting someday, besides just doing skips and strides, what are some ways of doing exercises in the gym that can potentially facilitate our ability to move better outside of the gym?
如果像我这样的人有兴趣成为一名更快的跑步者，甚至可能有一天进行冲刺，那么除了跳跃和跨步之外，还有哪些在健身房锻炼的方法可以帮助我们在健身房外更好地运动？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
First, let's look at the kinetics of sprinting.
首先，我们来看看短跑的动力学。
Sprinting is only really truly about four things: how much force you apply into the ground, how fast can you apply it, the direction in which you apply it, and how heavy you are.
短跑实际上只关乎四件事：你对地面施加了多大的力量，你能施加多快的力量，你施加力量的方向，以及你有多重。
And it's just those four things.
这只是这四件事。
How much force, how fast, which direction, what is your mass?
有多大的力，多快，哪个方向，你的质量是多少？
So yeah, force is important.
所以，是的，力量很重要。
We have to be able to apply a certain level of force, but there's a threshold to this.
我们必须能够施加一定程度的力量，但这有一个门槛。
Everyone says there's a big question, and has been for a long time, how much "strength" is enough in sprinting?
大家都说有一个很大的问题，而且已经存在很长时间了，短跑到底要多少“力量”才够？
Well, enough is-- It's the same question that we should ask in every task.
好吧，够了——我们在每项任务中都应该问同样的问题。
There's a rate of diminishing returns on all of these capacities that we need, that we require.
我们需要的所有这些能力的回报率都在递减。
Is spending an extra few years trying to get an extra five kilos to your power clean or an extra 25 pounds to your back squat as effective as a means to get faster than it would be if, say, you start skipping, maybe do some more explosive work, actually start sprinting a little bit more.
多花几年的时间尝试让你的高翻举重增加 5 公斤，或者让你的后蹲举重增加 25 磅，这是否比你开始跳绳、也许做一些更具爆发力的工作、实际上开始多一点冲刺来获得更快的速度更有效。
So there's always this, from a programming perspective, is understanding where the athlete is, what they require, what they've got, where they are in the rate of diminishing returns on each of those capacities.
因此，从编程的角度来看，总是要了解运动员在哪里，他们需要什么，他们拥有什么，他们在每种能力的回报递减率中处于什么位置。
So first, we have to understand that.
首先，我们必须了解这一点。
Let me zoom out just a little bit.
让我把镜头缩小一点。
I coached Andre De Grasse, as we talked about.
正如我们所说，我执教过安德烈·德格拉斯。
Andre, when I started coaching him in 2015, could barely squat his body weight.
当我 2015 年开始训练安德烈时，他几乎无法深蹲他的体重。
Eight months later, he's a three-time Olympic medalist.
八个月后，他成为三届奥运会奖牌获得者。
Eight months later, he was one and a half years into his sprinting career.
八个月后，他的短跑生涯已经一年半了。
He'd sprinted for 18 months.
他已经冲刺了18个月。
He had three Olympic medals in the sprints, the 100, the 200, and the 4 by 1.
他在短跑比赛中获得了三枚奥运奖牌：100米、200米和4比1。
He could barely squat his body weight.
他几乎无法蹲下他的体重。
He could clean 60 kilos, so 135 pounds.
他可以清理 60 公斤，即 135 磅。
He definitely couldn't bench a plate and a half.
他绝对不能替补一盘半。
He might've had a 145-pound bench.
他可能有一个145磅重的板凳。
Yeah, maybe.
是的，也许吧。
Super weak.
超级弱。
But on the other end of the spectrum, and this is the example that everyone gives, you've got Ben Johnson.
但在光谱的另一端，这是每个人都给出的例子，你有本·约翰逊。
Famously, Ben Johnson did this 600-pound squat a couple of days prior to winning in the Tokyo Olympics in 1988, running 979.
1988 年东京奥运会获胜前几天，本·约翰逊 (Ben Johnson) 完成了 600 磅的深蹲，跑出了 979 次。
Obviously, that was thereafter taken away after he tested positive.
显然，在他的检测结果呈阳性后，这一切就被取消了。
So you've gone to one end of the spectrum, somebody like Ben Johnson, who applies incredible amounts of force, and on the other end, you've got somebody like Andre De Grasse, who doesn't apply relatively any force, but does it really, really fast.
所以你已经走到了这个范围的一端，像本·约翰逊这样的人，他施加了令人难以置信的力量，而在另一端，你有像安德烈·德格拉斯这样的人，他相对不施加任何力量，但他的速度非常非常快。
So, this gives you an understanding of the spectrum of capacities and abilities that humans have to do a task in an almost infinite number of ways.
因此，这可以让您了解人类以几乎无限多种方式完成任务所需的能力范围。
So to get to your question, it depends on who you are, and what you're good at, and why you're good at it.
因此，要回答你的问题，取决于你是谁，你擅长什么，以及为什么你擅长它。
There's not one way.
没有一种方法。
When you've got a Ben Johnson who can apply incredible amounts of forces, and that's one of the reasons why he's fast.
当你拥有一个能够施加令人难以置信的力量的本·约翰逊时，这就是他速度很快的原因之一。
On the other end of the spectrum, you've got Andre De Grasse, who's weaker than most high school girls, who's incredibly fast.
另一方面，安德烈·德·格拉斯（Andre De Grasse）比大多数高中女生弱，但速度却令人难以置信。
Where does that leave us?
那我们会怎样呢？
That just tells us, okay, there's many different ways to do this, which is great.
这只是告诉我们，好吧，有很多不同的方法可以做到这一点，这很棒。
It's cool.
这很酷。
That gives us, again, some freedom to better ask the questions about what it is that makes you, Andrew, really good.
这再次给了我们一些自由，可以更好地提出问题，安德鲁，是什么让你变得如此优秀。
You apply a lot of force.
你用了很大的力。
Okay, let's lean into that.
好吧，让我们深入探讨一下。
Let's try to improve your speed by trying to maximize your force.
让我们尝试通过最大化你的力量来提高你的速度。
But what are you limited by?
但你受到什么限制呢？
Okay, you're having trouble getting off the ground.
好吧，你在起步时遇到了麻烦。
You're not super reactive or reflexive.
你并不是超级反应性或反射性的。
So we have to work some things into your program that's going to make you a little bit more reactive or reflexive.
因此，我们必须在您的计划中加入一些东西，这将使您更具反应性或反射性。
So maybe we'll do some jump squats.
所以也许我们会做一些深蹲跳。
Maybe we'll do some hurdle hops.
也许我们会做一些跨栏跳跃。
Maybe we'll do some more skipping.
也许我们会再跳一些。
Maybe we feel like, okay, you've reached the rate of diminishing returns on your force capacity.
也许我们觉得，好吧，你已经达到了你的武力回报率递减的程度。
You don't need to squat four plates if you squat 385.
深蹲385就不需要深蹲四块板了。
Is going from 385 to 405 going to make you any faster?
从 385 到 405 会让你更快吗？
No. Not at all.
不，一点也不。
So let's keep you at 385, and we'll just do some other things.
因此，让我们将您保持在 385，然后我们会做一些其他事情。
So first and foremost, it's respecting the individuality of all things and understanding that there's not one way in which I can tell you, "Do this because this is what he did, and that's what's going to work for you." Now, there is, as I said before, there's non-negotiables and there's rules to things.
因此，首先也是最重要的是，尊重所有事物的个性，并理解我没有一种方式可以告诉你，“这样做是因为这就是他所做的，这对你有用。”现在，正如我之前所说，事情是没有谈判余地的，也是有规则的。
So sprinting is how you transmit that force into the track in a really fast period of time in the right direction.
因此，冲刺就是如何在非常快的时间内将力量以正确的方向传递到赛道上。
So the transmission of force is typically more important than the magnitude of the force, at least at the elite end, at least at the adult end.
因此，力量的传递通常比力量的大小更重要，至少在精英端，至少在成人端。
So transmission of force means the amount of force that you put into the ground, how do you use it to propel yourself forward?
所以力的传递意味着你施加到地面上的力的大小，你如何使用它来推动自己前进？
So what are the types of exercises that maybe-- What would you think about if I said this is a force transmission exercise rather than, say, a force magnitude exercise?
那么，什么类型的练习可能——如果我说这是力传递练习而不是力大小练习，你会怎么想？
Is that something that-
那是不是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
appeals to you?
对你有吸引力吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, jump squat comes to mind.
是的，我想到了深蹲跳。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You know Jump squat comes to mind.
你知道跳深蹲会浮现在脑海中。
Any kind of push clap push-ups.
任何类型的推拍俯卧撑。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yep.
是的。
Correct.
正确的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The ability to double clap or more.
拍手两次或更多的能力。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes, that's what comes to mind.
是的，这就是我想到的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate.
是的，我认为这非常准确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Olympic lifts is one where a lot of people would say, "Yeah, it's an Olympic lift.
奥林匹克举重是很多人会说的，“是的，这是奥林匹克举重。
That's kind of what we're doing with Olympic lifts."
这就是我们在奥林匹克举重项目上所做的事情。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, like a clean.
是的，就像干净的一样。
You're kind of--
你有点——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't do Olympic lifts, but from what I understand, they're pushing off the ground to get the bar up.
我不做奥林匹克举重，但据我了解，他们是用力推离地面来把杠铃举起来。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It's essentially, can we apply high forces fast over a long period of time?
从本质上讲，我们能否在很长一段时间内快速施加强大的力量？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So that's kind of...
所以这有点...
We spend a lot of time looking at those types of exercises.
我们花了很多时间研究这些类型的练习。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sled work?
雪橇工作？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
We don't do any sled work, I'll be honest.
老实说，我们不做任何雪橇工作。
We can get back to that if you want to-
如果你愿意的话我们可以回到这个话题——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No sled work for elite sprinters.
对于精英短跑运动员来说，雪橇不适合工作。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
We do resisted acceleration work.
我们做阻力加速工作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So we'll sprint.
所以我们会冲刺。
We'll do some specific strength work where we're pulling probably in excess of 10 to 15 kilos, so 20 to 30 pounds-ish.
我们将做一些特定的力量训练，我们的拉力可能超过 10 到 15 公斤，也就是 20 到 30 磅左右。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you use the parachute?
你用降落伞吗？
That was a big thing a few years back.
几年前那是一件大事。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Remember that?
还记得吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Where they had the parachutes.
他们有降落伞的地方。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I used the parachute 20 years ago, absolutely.
我绝对是20年前用过降落伞的。
We don't now.
我们现在不这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
We actually have a piece of equipment called the power core, and we use that.
我们实际上有一种称为动力核心的设备，我们使用它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, you use that.
哦，你用那个。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
No, it's really good.
不，真的很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's a spring-loaded core unit.
这是一个弹簧加载的核心单元。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And the 1080 Sprint, which is this incredible piece of equipment that we use, that we can really dial in the resistance down to a half a kilo.
还有 1080 Sprint，这是我们使用的令人难以置信的设备，我们可以真正将阻力调低至半公斤。
Yeah, it's beautiful.
是的，很漂亮。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Cool.
酷。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So we use that, but that's for different reasons.
所以我们使用它，但出于不同的原因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So you talked about the weight room.
所以你谈到了举重室。
In the population of athletes that I work with, maximum strength is at the rate of diminishing returns already.
在与我一起工作的运动员群体中，最大力量已经达到了收益递减的速度。
We don't spend almost any time working on that.
我们几乎没有花任何时间在这方面。
At a lower level of population, maybe if you're a high school kid, or if you're in your 20s, or if you're super weak, just by increasing your force capacity, so your ability to apply force, you will get faster.
在较低的人口水平上，也许如果你是一个高中生，或者如果你20多岁，或者如果你超级弱，只要增加你的力量能力，那么你施加力量的能力，你就会变得更快。
Because remember what the calculation is: amount of force, how fast, direction, and body mass.
因为请记住计算的内容：力的大小、速度、方向和体重。
So it is important.
所以这很重要。
It just becomes less and less important the faster you get.
你速度越快，它就变得越来越不重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And then it becomes when it's less important, when the ability to produce a high magnitude of force isn't important, what is important?
然后，当它不那么重要时，当产生高强度力量的能力不重要时，什么才是重要的呢？
So then we're starting looking at plyometric things, and probably most specifically, I'm looking at specific isometric stuff in the weight room.
然后我们开始研究增强式训练，也许最具体的是，我正在健身房里研究特定的等长训练。
So let's look at the position in which we're applying in excess of five times our body weight, and that's when the foot is directly underneath the center of mass.
因此，让我们看看我们施加的重量超过体重五倍的位置，即脚位于质心正下方的位置。
The foot is flat on the ground.
脚平放在地上。
There's about a 15-degree knee bend, and there's about a five- to 10-degree hip bend.
膝盖弯曲约 15 度，髋部弯曲约 5 到 10 度。
So can you think about that position?
那么你能考虑一下这个位置吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So we're pushing up against an immovable bar or holding a very heavy bar on one leg with as heavy as we can or as hard as we can for somewhere between three to five seconds times three to four repetitions, and we'll do three sets of that.
因此，我们要推着一根不可移动的杠铃，或者用一条腿用尽可能重或尽可能用力的方式握住一根非常重的杠铃，持续三到五秒，重复三到四次，我们将做三组。
That's Alex Natera's work.
这是亚历克斯·纳特拉 (Alex Natera) 的作品。
He's one of the premier researchers in what's called run-specific isometric strength training.
他是所谓的跑步特定等长力量训练领域的主要研究人员之一。
So it's getting strong in really specific positions to the task that you're trying to become better at.
因此，对于你想要做得更好的任务来说，它在真正特定的位置上变得更强。
So that's the primary one for me, is that position where the foot is directly underneath the center of mass.
所以这对我来说是首要的，就是脚位于质心正下方的位置。
There's a little bit of a knee bend, there's a little bit of a hip bend, and we do a lot of isometric work right there.
有一点膝盖弯曲，有一点臀部弯曲，我们就在那里做了很多等距训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And then, and this is my bias, I do nothing bilateral at all.
然后，这是我的偏见，我根本不做任何双边的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You mean parallel stance?
你说的是平行姿势吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Parallel stance.
平行姿势。
Nothing.
没有什么。
Except occasionally, if it is an issue, with neural drive or whatever, I'll do some trap bar deadlifts.
除了偶尔，如果是神经驱动或其他方面的问题，我会做一些斜杠硬拉。
So some parallel stance trap bar deadlifts.
所以一些平行站立陷阱杆硬拉。
Because I think that's a great exercise.
因为我认为这是一个很好的练习。
I think that's difficult to do with a staggered stance.
我认为以交错的立场很难做到这一点。
It's very difficult to do with a single-leg stance.
单腿站立很难做到。
But you can load up some pretty good weight on a parallel stance trap bar deadlift, and yeah, I feel pretty good.
但是你可以在平行站立陷阱杆硬拉上加载一些相当好的重量，是的，我感觉很好。
And you get a good feeling out of that.
你会从中得到一种很好的感觉。
It's not necessarily to be able to apply or generate more force.
它不一定能够施加或产生更多的力。
It's more about neural drive than it is for anything else.
它更多的是关于神经驱动而不是其他任何事情。
Every single other thing that we do is in a staggered stance, heel to toe, or kickstand, which is kind of the same sort of thing, just a different terminology, or split stance, or a stance where the front foot is elevated or the rear foot is elevated.
我们所做的每一件事都是交错的姿势，从脚跟到脚趾，或支架，这是同一类事情，只是不同的术语，或分叉姿势，或前脚抬高或后脚抬高的姿势。
So we'll do, as we've talked about quite a bit now, find opportunities to get the knee behind the butt.
因此，正如我们现在已经讨论过的那样，我们会找到机会将膝盖放在屁股后面。
That's a really important position.
这是一个非常重要的职位。
Can we get stronger, faster, more control, more repeatability, and more range at that position?
我们能否在这个位置上变得更强、更快、更有控制力、更高的可重复性和更大的射程？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of the things I learned from you yesterday is...
昨天我从你那里学到的一件事是......
Well, I'll double-click first on the staggered stance.
好吧，我先双击交错的姿势。
So this is one foot slightly in front of the other.
所以这是一只脚稍微在另一只脚前面。
I've been doing this with various lifts in the gym for a long time.
很长一段时间以来，我一直在健身房里使用各种举重器械进行这种训练。
I would say the exception would be if I'm belt squatting or hack squatting, I don't do that.
我想说的是，如果我是腰带深蹲或哈克深蹲，我不会这样做。
But for everything else, overhead presses, anything where my feet are in contact with the ground, that is, not on pull-ups and dips, of course, but curls, tricep extensions, and I make sure to vary the stance so one foot is in front for one set, one is in front for the other.
但对于其他的事情，过头推举，任何我的脚与地面接触的事情，当然，不是引体向上和臂屈伸，而是弯举、三头肌伸展，我一定要改变姿势，这样一组时一只脚在前面，另一组时一只脚在前面。
Sometimes even in the middle of the set-
有时甚至在演出的中间——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I'll switch them up after.
之后我会把它们换掉。
And I found that to be tremendously helpful for building core stability and a number of other things.
我发现这对于建立核心稳定性和其他许多事情非常有帮助。
And it sounds like it might help running gait as well.
听起来它也可能有助于跑步步态。
The other thing that you said yesterday that I think is really important that I've not thought of before, but now I'm doing, is any time you have a foot elevated in the gym to get onto the toe, front foot can be flat.
你昨天说的另一件事我认为非常重要，但我以前没有想到，但现在我正在做的是，任何时候你在健身房中抬高一只脚以到达脚趾，前脚都可以平放。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
I think the ability to get off your first ray-
我认为摆脱第一道射线的能力-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
so for the big toe to bend and flex-
所以为了让大脚趾弯曲和弯曲-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
is really important.
真的很重要。
So for me, if that's important, I'm going to search for opportunities to do that as often as I can.
所以对我来说，如果这很重要，我会尽可能多地寻找机会这样做。
So if I have an option to either flex the big toe or not Then we're going to flex the big toe.
因此，如果我可以选择弯曲或不弯曲大脚趾，那么我们将弯曲大脚趾。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Now, if you can't, and many athletes cannot.
现在，如果你不能，很多运动员也不能。
There's a lot of athletes that just cannot extend to that big toe, or some athletes have bunions and just can't get over it.
有很多运动员无法伸展到大脚趾，或者有些运动员患有拇囊炎，无法克服它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And that's okay.
没关系。
We can go onto the top of the foot.
我们可以走到脚的顶部。
It's not the end of the world.
这不是世界末日。
But I look for opportunities like that, like I look for opportunities to extend the hip.
但我会寻找这样的机会，就像我寻找伸展臀部的机会一样。
How can I work hip extension exercises into everything I do?
我怎样才能将髋部伸展练习融入到我所做的每件事中？
I look for full chain or full body force transmission exercises as much as I possibly can.
我尽可能多地寻找全链或全身力传递练习。
Ideally, from the left foot to the right hand, and the right foot to the left hand, so cross body.
理想情况下，从左脚到右手，再从右脚到左手，这样交叉身体。
So I'm looking for these long fascial chains, ways in which I can bring some function to the work that I'm doing in the weight room, some level of transferability between the things that I do in the weight room and the things that we do on the track.
所以我正在寻找这些长筋膜链，通过这些方式我可以为我在举重室所做的工作带来一些功能，在我在举重室所做的事情和我们在跑道上所做的事情之间有某种程度的可转移性。
Because frankly, most of the things that we do in the weight room don't transfer to the track.
因为坦率地说，我们在举重室所做的大部分事情都不会转移到跑道上。
A squat doesn't really transfer.
深蹲并不能真正转移。
It's a totally different exercise performed in a totally different way at a totally different time, totally different weights.
这是一种完全不同的练习，在完全不同的时间、完全不同的重量下以完全不同的方式进行。
So the transference is very far.
所以转移是很远的。
It's very nebulous.
这是非常模糊的。
So I'm looking for ways in which we can find a way to transfer the capacities that we are building in the weight room directly to the track.
因此，我正在寻找一种方法，将我们在举重室中建立的能力直接转移到跑道上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And with respect to stretching, I'm thinking again of yoga because this is probably the first time I'd done this, where one would lunge.
至于伸展运动，我再次想到了瑜伽，因为这可能是我第一次做这种需要弓箭步的动作。
So front foot planted flat, rear foot up on the big toe if possible, the knee back of that rear foot, or rear leg, excuse me, back behind the butt-
所以前脚平放，后脚如果可能的话放在大脚趾上，后脚的膝盖后面，或者后腿，对不起，在屁股后面-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then the opposite arm raised above.
然后另一只手臂举到上方。
That's that fascial sling that cuts across from, in anatomy nomenclature, contralateral across the midline.
这就是筋膜吊带，用解剖学术语来说，就是横穿中线的对侧。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then essentially trying to learn to feel that line that goes all the way from one's big toe that's planting back, up the leg, across the pelvis, up the body and to the opposite tips of finger.
然后主要是尝试去感受那条线，从大脚趾一直延伸到后面，向上延伸到腿部，穿过骨盆，向上延伸到身体，到达相对的手指尖。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100%.
100%。
And if I can add to that stretch, this is something that I really love Kelly about.
如果我能补充一点的话，这就是我真正喜欢凯利的地方。
He's so much on, "I need you to be in control of your body." There is a way to do this, but then it's up to you to find out a better way for you specifically.
他非常热衷于说：“我需要你控制自己的身体。”有一种方法可以做到这一点，但接下来就取决于您是否专门找到一种更好的方法。
So you've done a great job of outlining what this stretch looks like.
所以你已经很好地概述了这个伸展的样子。
Now, what can I do with my body to actually make this better?
现在，我可以对我的身体做些什么来真正改善这种情况呢？
Do I rotate to one side?
我要旋转到一侧吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Do I side bend to one side?
我是否向一侧侧弯？
Do I flex the hand as well as doing this?
我是否也像这样做一样弯曲手？
Because this will be a better stretch than that.
因为这会比那更好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So palm parallel to the ceiling.
所以手掌与天花板平行。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Of the raised hand.
举起的手。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Correct.
正确。
If I push the knee back and try to push the heel on the ground and actually contract, if I rotate my pelvis underneath me posteriorly, do a pelvic tilt underneath me, will that increase it?
如果我向后推膝盖并尝试将脚后跟推到地面上并实际收缩，如果我向后旋转我下方的骨盆，在我下方做骨盆倾斜，这会增加它吗？
So it's always this exploratory process.
所以这始终是一个探索的过程。
There is a right way to do things, but you are an individual.
做事有正确的方法，但你是个人。
We're all unique snowflakes, right?
我们都是独一无二的雪花，对吗？
We all move in different ways, and it's up to us to explore all of our uniqueness.
我们都以不同的方式行动，我们有责任探索自己的独特性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Distant topic from the one that we're on, but one that I, and I think a number of people are curious about is drugs in sports.
与我们正在讨论的话题相距甚远，但我和我认为很多人都好奇的一个话题是运动中的药物。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Performance-enhancing drugs.
提高表现的药物。
There's a potentially new sports league, track league, which is the Enhanced Games.
有一个潜在的新体育联盟，田径联盟，即增强运动会。
Who knows if that will go through.
谁知道这是否会成功。
But right now, using performance-enhancing drugs, most performance-enhancing drugs is banned in track.
但目前，使用兴奋剂，大多数兴奋剂都被禁止使用。
But because of the Ben Johnson thing-
但因为本·约翰逊的事情——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that was '88 Olympics-
那是88年奥运会——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
'88
'88
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where he was jaundiced at the eyes, and it turned out he was taking Winstrol, and he was stripped of his medal.
他的眼睛出现了黄疸，结果他服用了康力龙，他的奖牌被剥夺了。
And then the discussion is they're all using it, some just get caught, this kind of thing, or they're using in the off-season.
然后讨论是他们都在使用它，有些只是被抓住，这种事情，或者他们在淡季使用。
How common is, people usually say steroid use, but androgen enhancement?
人们通常说使用类固醇，但雄激素增强有多常见？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Because performance-enhancing drugs could be drugs to lower the heart rate for the biathletes.
因为提高成绩的药物可能是降低冬季两项运动员心率的药物。
They do that, too.
他们也这样做。
Right?
正确的？
Keep your heart rate lower.
保持较低的心率。
There's all sorts of drugs that are banned that are not androgen increasing.
有各种各样的禁用药物不会增加雄激素。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But things like testosterone derivatives-
但像睾酮衍生物这样的东西——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in the men and women.
在男人和女人中。
How common is it?
它有多常见？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Now?
现在？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Not common at all.
一点也不常见。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
In fact, I don't know of any elite sprinter that I could definitely point to, say, "That person is dirty." None.
事实上，我不知道有哪个精英短跑运动员可以让我明确指出，“那个人很脏。”没有任何。
It was common.
这很常见。
'60s and '70s, extremely common.
60 年代和 70 年代，极其常见。
'80s, very common.
80年代，很常见。
'90s, when testing started becoming a bit better, much less common.
90 年代，测试开始变得更好，但不再那么普遍。
2000s, 2010s, and '20s, I just don't know how much of it is getting done now or being done across the board.
2000 年代、2010 年代和 20 年代，我只是不知道现在已经完成了多少，或者正在全面完成。
There are pockets.
有口袋。
So we obviously know about Russia and what's gone on with the Eastern Bloc and all of the drugs that they've taken that's been state-sponsored.
因此，我们显然了解俄罗斯以及东方集团的情况以及他们服用的所有由国家资助的药物。
All of that is out there.
所有这些都在那里。
We know that for sure, if you are an elite Russian athlete, almost certainly you were taking drugs.
我们知道，如果您是一名俄罗斯精英运动员，几乎可以肯定您正在服用药物。
You didn't have a choice.
你别无选择。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is that still true now?
现在仍然如此吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
You didn't have a choice.
你别无选择。
What no one really knows now, because Russia's been banned from all sports, so you don't see Russian athletes almost anywhere.
现在没有人真正知道这一点，因为俄罗斯被禁止参加所有体育运动，所以你几乎在任何地方都看不到俄罗斯运动员。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I think there's a few sports that you do, but most of them now you don't see Russian athletes.
我认为您从事一些运动，但现在您看不到大多数运动中的俄罗斯运动员。
But it's so hard.
但这太难了。
That's a part of the culture and has been part of the culture since the '50s.
这是文化的一部分，自 20 世纪 50 年代以来一直是文化的一部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
That's what we do.
这就是我们所做的。
Because everyone else is cheating, so this is what we do.
因为其他人都在作弊，所以这就是我们所做的。
So it's a state-sponsored system.
所以这是一个国家资助的系统。
And I feel like there's 150 or 160, something like that, positive drug cases come out of Kenya over the course of the last decade.
我觉得在过去的十年里，肯尼亚出现了 150 或 160 起类似的毒品阳性案件。
So you think, "Okay, there's something going on with Kenyans."
所以你会想，“好吧，肯尼亚人出了点问题。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is that distance running?
这个距离是跑步吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Distance running.
长距离跑步。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there I should say, because some people might not be familiar with this, that with distance running or cycling, triathlon, it's probably not ...
我应该说，因为有些人可能不熟悉这一点，对于长跑或自行车、铁人三项，它可能不是......
increasing androgens like testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, et cetera.
增加雄激素，如睾酮、二氢睾酮等。
It's probably things that increase red blood cell count.
这可能是增加红细胞计数的东西。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Ability to deliver more oxygen and fuel sources to the cells.
能够向细胞输送更多的氧气和燃料来源。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So this kind of blood EPO, these and things like that.
所以这种血液 EPO，诸如此类的东西。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
But, and this one in Kenya, I understand it, and I understand the Russian thing as well.
但是，对于肯尼亚的这个，我理解它，我也理解俄罗斯的事情。
If you're a Kenyan kid, you're 18 years old, you've got some talent, an agent comes to you and says, "I'm going to give you $50,000, and I'm going to support you for the first two years of your career.
如果你是一个肯尼亚孩子，你已经 18 岁了，你有一些天赋，一个经纪人来找你说：“我会给你 5 万美元，我会在你职业生涯的前两年支持你。
And this is what everyone does anyway.
无论如何，这就是每个人所做的。
And we'll take the risk a little bit, but you can actually make something of yourself, become a star, get a house, feed your family.
我们会冒一点风险，但你实际上可以让自己有所成就，成为明星，买房子，养家糊口。
Do this, do that." That's a hard calculation for a kid to make, as it was in the steroid era in baseball.
做这个，做那个。”对于一个孩子来说，这是一个很难做出的计算，因为当时正处于棒球的类固醇时代。
It's almost logical to take drugs at that point.
那时服用药物几乎是合乎逻辑的。
"All right, these guys aren't testing me at all, so why wouldn't I?" Why wouldn't Barry Bonds take drugs?
“好吧，这些家伙根本就没有考验我，那我为什么不呢？”巴里·邦兹为什么不吸毒？
Now, that's a different calculation for most of the rest of the world, where there isn't these practices going on in Kenya with a lot of shady people, to be honest with you.
现在，对于世界上大多数其他地方来说，这是一个不同的计算，老实说，在肯尼亚，没有这样的做法，有很多阴暗的人。
And I honestly, I do not see drugs at all in the sport anymore.
老实说，我在这项运动中再也看不到毒品了。
There will be pockets of people, for sure.
肯定会有一些人。
There will be a few dirty coaches, there'll be a few dirty managers, there'll be a few people doing some dirty things.
会有一些肮脏的教练，会有一些肮脏的经理，会有一些人做一些肮脏的事情。
But I'm very, very confident that the top people in all of the events are doing it clean.
但我非常非常有信心，所有活动中的顶尖人物都会干干净净。
Very confident.
非常有信心。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's great to hear.
很高兴听到这个消息。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It is.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And I would not know the first-- I've been in this sport for a long time.
我不知道第一点——我从事这项运动已经很长时间了。
I wouldn't know what to do, what to take, who to get it from.
我不知道该做什么，该拿什么，该从谁那里得到。
So when I look at choose your athlete, I won't name any names, and you look at who they're surrounded by, I know those people well.
所以当我选择你的运动员时，我不会说出任何名字，你看看他们周围的人，我很了解这些人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
How would they do it?
他们会怎么做呢？
I had no idea.
我不知道。
No one really knows, right?
没有人真正知道，对吧？
Because, I mean, the drug testing is pretty stringent now.
因为，我的意思是，现在药物测试非常严格。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It's really stringent.
实在是太严格了。
It's hard.
这很难。
It's really, really hard.
这真的非常非常难。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's encouraging to hear, especially for young people who are watching Olympics and it's a terrible thing if they were to think, oh, they're all-
听到这个消息真是令人鼓舞，尤其是对于正在观看奥运会的年轻人来说，如果他们想到，哦，他们都是——，那就太可怕了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
using.
使用。
And I think one good trend in the last few years is there's a lot more openness now in the kind of fitness world.
我认为过去几年的一个好趋势是健身世界现在更加开放。
Because when I was growing up, of course, those veiny bodybuilder people, they were all juiced to the gills, and they'd say they weren't, but they absolutely were.
当然，因为在我成长的过程中，那些精力充沛的健美运动员，他们都精力充沛，他们会说他们不是，但他们绝对是。
And nowadays, if people are doing TRT or something, they say it, right?
如今，如果人们正在做 TRT 之类的事情，他们就会这么说，对吗？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've talked about it.
我已经谈过了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I microdose every other day since I was 45.
从 45 岁起，我每隔一天服用一次微剂量药物。
Never before then.
在那之前从来没有。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I've relied on other things to keep testosterone in range, and I take HCG, maintain fertility.
但我依靠其他东西来保持睾丸激素在范围内，并且我服用 HCG，保持生育能力。
That's all checked out, but I'm very clear about exactly how much.
这些都已经检查过了，但我很清楚到底有多少。
The internet has it wrong.
互联网上有错误。
It's 25 milligrams every other day, by the way.
顺便说一下，每隔一天 25 毫克。
Staggered with 600 IUs of HCG every other day.
每隔一天交错服用 600 IU HCG。
I said that early on because I was like, "I'm not a competitive athlete.
我很早就这么说了，因为我当时想，“我不是一名竞技运动员。
I got nothing to hide."
我没什么可隐瞒的。”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'll say that, was it TRT?
我会说，是 TRT 吗？
I'll say, not really, because my testosterone was in mid sevens.
我会说，不是真的，因为我的睾丸激素处于七分之一左右。
But I was getting fatigued a lot, and bumping it up a little bit higher, which is what this has done, has been great for me.
但我已经很累了，把它提高一点，这就是它所做的，对我来说很棒。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it's the people that lie, like the Liver King situation, where he looked at the camera, unfortunately, and filmed himself saying that he doesn't, and then he gets caught.
但撒谎的是人，就像肝王的情况一样，不幸的是，他看着镜头，拍下自己说他没有，然后他就被抓住了。
It's like, duh.
就像，呃。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then you've got people that are juicing really hard, and it's tricky in sports because, or in movies, right?
然后你会发现人们非常努力地榨汁，这在体育运动中很棘手，因为或者在电影中，对吧？
Like when an actor suddenly is big and shredded and you're just like, oh.
就像当一个演员突然变得又大又破碎时，你就会想，哦。
You know the telltale signs.
你知道这些迹象。
It's probably not testosterone, it's probably oxandrolone or something a little bit, quote-unquote, "lighter." But there's nothing light about oxandrolone on your liver or your hairline, folks.
它可能不是睾丸激素，它可能是氧甲氢龙或某种东西，引用不引用，“更轻”。但伙计们，氧甲氢龙对你的肝脏或发际线没有任何影响。
But this is a bigger discussion, but I think it's important to just be open about it.
但这是一个更大的讨论，但我认为保持开放态度很重要。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because we want to see people run faster than ever before.
因为我们希望看到人们跑得比以前更快。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We want to see people jump higher than ever before.
我们希望看到人们跳得比以往更高。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We want to see people run marathons faster than ever before.
我们希望看到人们跑马拉松的速度比以往任何时候都快。
And it sucks when we find out that they were enhanced, and that was breaking the rules.
当我们发现它们被增强时，这很糟糕，这违反了规则。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
What sucks more is the reputational damage that those things do for the people who are actually doing this well and clean.
更糟糕的是，这些事情对那些真正做得很好、干净的人造成了声誉损害。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
The 99.9% of the people-
99.9%的人——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
who are trying to do this the right way, that are being colored with the same brush.
那些试图以正确的方式做到这一点的人，正在用同一把画笔着色。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And that's what really frustrates me.
这才是真正让我沮丧的地方。
It's really frustrating.
真是令人沮丧。
I've coached one athlete in my career who tested positive.
在我的职业生涯中，我执教过一名检测结果呈阳性的运动员。
2001 Olympic trials in bobsled.
2001年奥运会雪橇选拔赛。
His name was Pavle Jovanovic.
他的名字叫帕夫勒·约万诺维奇。
He was, at the time, the best bobsledder on the planet.
当时，他是地球上最好的雪橇运动员。
So tested positive for nandrolone, so Deca Durabolin.
因此诺龙测试呈阳性，因此德卡多乐宝林（Deca Durabolin）。
Later, it was shown that it came from a supplement.
后来证明它来自补充剂。
So if you remember, this was 2001.
如果你还记得的话，那是 2001 年。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
You could-
你可以-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So from-
所以从-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
buy GHB at-
购买 GHB 的价格为 -
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
late '90s
90年代末
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
at GNC at that time.
当时在GNC。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Late '90s up until the early 2000s, there were supplement companies purposefully lacing their protein with steroids-
20 世纪 90 年代末到 2000 年代初，有一些补充剂公司故意在其蛋白质中添加类固醇 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
God
上帝
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
to try to sell more supplements.
尝试销售更多补充剂。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Goodness gracious.
善良仁慈。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And there's studies that show this, and they ended up, there was a group of athletes that all tested positive that sued this one company.
有研究表明这一点，最终，一群检测结果呈阳性的运动员起诉了这家公司。
The company ended up just declaring bankruptcy, and nobody got a cent.
该公司最终宣布破产，没有人得到一分钱。
And long story short, ruined his career, ruined his reputation, ended up taking his own life.
长话短说，毁了他的事业，毁了他的名誉，最终结束了自己的生命。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So I've seen, and this is just people from the outside just look at that and say, "Oh, just another druggy bobsledder, just another druggy football player, just another druggy sprinter.
所以我看到了，这只是局外人看到后说，“哦，又一个吸毒的雪橇运动员，又一个吸毒的足球运动员，又一个吸毒的短跑运动员。
They're all on drugs." And they're not.
他们都吸毒了。”但他们不是。
They're not.
他们不是。
99.9% of people are trying to do this right.
99.9%的人都在努力把这件事做好。
They're good people, not making any money in this sport, especially in track and field.
他们都是好人，但在这项运动中赚不到钱，尤其是在田径领域。
It's a different calculation, as you said, in Hollywood or in the NFL or in baseball, where the testing is Significantly more lax than it is in track and field, or significantly more lax than what it is in almost all amateur sports.
正如你所说，这是一种不同的计算方式，在好莱坞、美国国家橄榄球联盟或棒球中，测试比田径比赛要宽松得多，或者比几乎所有业余运动要宽松得多。
Amateur sport is almost impossible to be dirty these days.
如今，业余运动几乎不可能弄脏。
It really is.
确实如此。
And if you just think about this, Trayvon Bromell ran 9.97 as a high school kid.
如果你想一想，特雷冯·布罗梅尔（Trayvon Bromell）高中时的成绩是 9.97。
He was 5'7", 135 pounds.
他身高 5 英尺 7 英寸，体重 135 磅。
You think that kid was taking drugs?
你认为那孩子吸毒了吗？
Of course he wasn't.
当然他不是。
So if you can run 9.97 as a 17-year-old, at that age, why can't you run 9.7 six, seven, eight years later, after actually training and being in an elite program?
因此，如果你在 17 岁的时候就可以跑 9.97，那么为什么你不能在六、七、八年后，在实际训练并参加精英计划之后跑 9.7？
Of course you can.
当然可以。
Usain Bolt ran 1984 when he was 18 years old.
1984 年，尤塞恩·博尔特 (Usain Bolt) 参加了竞选，当时他 18 岁。
He ran sub-10 when he was 19 years old.
19岁时，他参加了10级以下的比赛。
World class.
世界级。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Just a kid.
只是一个孩子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
You're seeing high school kids now running ridiculously fast times.
你会看到高中生现在跑得快得离谱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In the mile as well.
英里也是如此。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
In every single event, right?
在每一个事件中，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Every event across the board.
每一个事件都是全面的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they're not assisted.
而且他们没有得到帮助。
This is one thing-
这是一件事——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
No
否
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where I hear we're cutting between sport and we're talking about fitness.
我听说我们在运动和健身之间切换。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The reason I mention the age when I started TRT is that, A, never occurred to me I didn't need it.
我之所以提到我开始 TRT 的年龄是因为，A，我从来没有想过我不需要它。
I felt like I got great results until then.
在那之前我觉得我取得了很好的成绩。
And I think the biggest thing is recovery.
我认为最重要的是恢复。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do think it helps you recover-
我确实认为它可以帮助你康复-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
better.
更好。
No question, actually.
事实上，毫无疑问。
But a real shame nowadays is that because of Instagram and people showing their bodies, and this desire for people to get results more quickly, a lot of guys in their teens, 20s, and 30s are taking testosterone when they don't need it.
但如今真正令人遗憾的是，由于 Instagram 和人们展示自己的身体，以及人们希望更快地获得结果的愿望，许多十几岁、二十多岁和三十多岁的男人在不需要的时候服用睾丸激素。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It does shut down sperm production, unless they're offsetting that with hCG or something like that.
它确实会关闭精子的产生，除非他们用 hCG 或类似的东西来抵消它。
And they may think they don't want kids now, but they may want them later, and some permanent damage can be done.
他们可能认为自己现在不想要孩子，但以后可能会想要孩子，并且可能会造成一些永久性的损害。
In addition to that, puberty is a very protracted thing for a lot of people.
除此之外，青春期对于很多人来说是一个非常漫长的过程。
It's not like, oh, you start puberty at 14, it ends at 16.
这并不是说，哦，青春期从 14 岁开始，到 16 岁结束。
Your brain's still developing.
你的大脑还在发育。
So we don't really understand how all that works.
所以我们并不真正了解这一切是如何运作的。
Not this Olympics, but prior to that one, there was a female athlete who tested positive for deca, the deca burrito.
不是本届奥运会，而是在那届奥运会之前，有一名女运动员的十倍（十倍墨西哥卷饼）检测呈阳性。
She blamed it on a burrito meat.
她将其归咎于墨西哥卷饼肉。
And I remember hearing that, and I sort of facetiously said, and I'll say it again, not facetiously, "If she got caught for deca, I hope she took deca." Because to knowingly take a banned substance and get caught, and then banned from the sport is one thing.
我记得听到这句话，我开玩笑地说，我会再说一遍，不是开玩笑，“如果她因为十倍毒而被捕，我希望她服用十倍毒。”因为故意服用违禁物质并被抓住，然后被禁止参加这项运动是一回事。
But to inadvertently take a banned substance-
但无意中服用违禁物质——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
as did this bobsledder-
就像这个雪橇一样——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then get banned from your sport, that's a real tragedy for multiple reasons.
然后被禁止参加你的运动，由于多种原因，这真是一场悲剧。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
And that's what happened.
这就是发生的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's dreadful.
太可怕了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It is.
是的。
It's absolutely dreadful.
这绝对是可怕的。
She just started competing again last month.
她上个月刚刚再次开始比赛。
Rob and I were actually talking about this yesterday at the track.
事实上，罗布和我昨天在赛道上讨论过这个问题。
She's made the World Indoor team for USATF, starting next week, I think.
我想，从下周开始，她就入选了美国田径队的世界室内队。
It definitely happens.
这肯定会发生。
We look at that, and there's, "Yeah, they're blaming the burrito, they're blaming meat or whatever," but 100%.
我们看了一下，“是的，他们指责墨西哥卷饼，他们指责肉类或其他什么，”但100%。
You run 5K.
你跑5K。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Why are you taking deca?
你为什么要服用德卡？
Why are you taking nandrolone?
你为什么要服用诺龙？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It doesn't make sense.
这没有道理。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
No, it makes zero sense.
不，这毫无意义。
You're not doing that.
你没有那样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
That is from the meat.
那是从肉里来的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I get contacted a lot, probably not as much as other people do, by athletes at different levels, professional, amateur, et cetera, asking about ways to improve testosterone, et cetera.
嗯，我经常被不同级别的运动员联系，专业的、业余的等等，询问如何提高睾丸激素等等，可能没有其他人那么多。
I got great results all through my mid-30s until mid-40s, and still with tongkat ali, freeing some testosterone up.
从 30 多岁到 40 多岁，我都取得了很好的成绩，并且仍然服用东革阿里，释放出一些睾丸激素。
My blood charts told me that.
我的血常规告诉我这一点。
Worked for me, may not work for everybody, great.
对我有用，可能不适用于每个人，太棒了。
Fadogia, things like that.
法多吉亚之类的。
Subtle effects-
微妙的影响——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but meaningful.
但有意义。
Subtle but meaningful.
微妙但有意义。
And then athletes will ask me, "Well, is it allowed?" I said, "You have to check with your organization."
然后运动员会问我，“嗯，这是允许的吗？”我说：“你必须向你的组织核实一下。”
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You just can't take something.
你就是不能拿走一些东西。
You have to check with your organization.
您必须与您的组织核实。
The thing I am well aware of now is all the peptide use.
我现在很清楚的是所有肽的使用。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Peptides are really, really big, and they're in use in the general population more and more.
肽真的非常非常大，并且它们在普通人群中的使用越来越多。
And it'll be interesting to see how those impact sport.
看看这些如何影响体育运动将会很有趣。
I'm not aware of any athletes, at least none have come to me, saying they take these peptides.
我不知道有任何运动员，至少没有人来找我，说他们服用了这些肽。
But it's going to be interesting to see how that shapes sport.
但看看这如何影响体育运动将会很有趣。
I think people overestimate how much these drugs contribute to success at the elite level.
我认为人们高估了这些药物对精英阶层成功的贡献。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because what you're talking about with these athletes you work with are just the hundreds and hundreds of hours of work to get a 1% improvement in some metric.
因为你所谈论的这些与你一起工作的运动员只是为了在某些指标上取得 1% 的进步而付出数百个小时的努力。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, or 0.1%.
是的，或者0.1%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
0.1%.
0.1%。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think people really overestimate it.
我认为人们确实高估了它。
Sure, if people just want to be big-
当然，如果人们只是想变大——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
with a bunch of acne, yeah, you can do that.
有一堆痤疮，是的，你可以做到。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Big acne, sterile.
大痘痘，无菌。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You can get that in the locker room most any gym nowadays.
如今，您可以在大多数健身房的更衣室里找到它。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Please don't do it.
请不要这样做。
But to get half a second off your time-
但是为了节省半秒钟的时间-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It's thousands-
是几千——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No drugs.
没有药物。
Drug isn't going to give you that
药物不会给你带来这些
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
thousands of hours of work.
数千小时的工作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
It is sleeping really well.
它睡得真好。
It's eating really well.
吃得真好啊
It's having a good, proper life.
就是过着美好、正当的生活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
There's no shortcut to that.
没有捷径可走。
There really isn't.
确实没有。
You've got to get really, really fast to be fast.
你必须变得非常非常快才能变得快。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And this is even back in the drug era.
这甚至可以追溯到毒品时代。
You didn't take drugs to be fast.
你吃药不是为了快点。
You got fast first, and then you took drugs, and that made you faster.
你先加快速度，然后服用药物，这会让你更快。
That's how people did it.
人们就是这样做的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
You don't take drugs to get fast.
你不会为了快点而服用药物。
You don't go from 10.2 to 10 flat, or 10.3 to 10 flat, or 10.2 to 9.8.
您不会从 10.2 变为 10 平，或从 10.3 变为 10 平，或从 10.2 变为 9.8。
Doesn't happen that way.
不会那样发生的。
For me, it's like the most important one for me is are you training well?
对我来说，最重要的就是你训练得好吗？
Is it organized properly?
组织得当吗？
Are you sleeping well?
你睡得好吗？
Are you eating well?
你吃得好吗？
Are you taking whatever the good, clean supplements that you can take?
您是否正在服用任何可以服用的优质、清洁的补充剂？
And we take very, very few, by the way.
顺便说一句，我们采取的非常非常少。
And do you have a good social life?
你有良好的社交生活吗？
And then all of these things come together and interact in a way that feeds your purpose of running fast.
然后所有这些东西聚集在一起并以一种满足你快速跑步的目的的方式相互作用。
That's it.
就是这样。
Honestly, as I said with Andre, I started working with Andre in 2015.
老实说，正如我对安德烈所说，我从 2015 年开始与安德烈合作。
He could not squat his body weight, basically.
基本上他无法深蹲自己的体重。
Three Olympic medals, 18 months after starting the sport.
开始这项运动 18 个月后，获得三枚奥运会奖牌。
It can be done, which shows, yeah, okay, this is being done.
这是可以完成的，这表明，是的，好的，这正在完成。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's awesome.
太棒了。
And it points to the fact that more muscle isn't always the solution.
它指出了这样一个事实：增加肌肉并不总是解决问题的办法。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The things that keep coming to mind are the ability to put away self-consciousness.
我脑海中不断浮现的事情是抛开自我意识的能力。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To use the body to express.
要用身体来表达。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To find oneself.
去寻找自己。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's so interesting because I thought we were going to sit down and talk about running.
这很有趣，因为我以为我们要坐下来谈论跑步。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, me too.
是的，我也是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I think these are much larger, and if I may, more important-
但我认为这些要大得多，如果可以的话，更重要的是——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
themes, although people should definitely skip and stride and do plyometrics.
主题，尽管人们绝对应该跳过、跨步并进行增强式训练。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
我很想听听你的想法。
I asked you this question earlier.
我之前问过你这个问题。
Do you feel like there is a single metric that is a better determinant for overall health and vitality than the ability to maximally sprint?
您是否认为有一个单一指标比最大冲刺能力更能决定整体健康和活力？
Now, not be fast, but to go out and actually sprint maximally.
现在，不是跑得快，而是走出去，真正最大限度地冲刺。
Think about all of the things-
想想所有的事情——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's interesting
这很有趣
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
...
...
that come along with the ride with that.
伴随着骑行而来。
Think about VO2 max.
考虑一下最大摄氧量。
VO2 max in and of itself isn't important.
最大摄氧量本身并不重要。
It's a proxy for all of these other things that are important.
它是所有其他重要事物的代理。
The ability to sprint maximally isn't necessarily important, but it's a proxy for everything else.
最大冲刺的能力并不一定重要，但它是其他一切的代表。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I can't think of anything else, and you're talking to somebody who's now working on grip strength, because I was challenged publicly by Paul Saladino.
我想不出其他的了，而你正在和一个现在正在研究握力的人交谈，因为我受到了保罗·萨拉迪诺的公开挑战。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The Carnivore MD, who now talks about animal diet, and people are starting to take him more seriously, by the way, because at first it was all meat.
这位食肉动物医学博士现在谈论动物饮食，顺便说一句，人们开始更加认真地对待他，因为一开始都是肉。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Then it was meat and fruit.
然后是肉和水果。
Then it was meat, fruit, and some dairy.
然后是肉、水果和一些奶制品。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do this and I also eat vegetables.
我这样做，我也吃蔬菜。
The guy has salad in his name, for God's sake.
看在上帝的份上，这家伙的名字里有沙拉。
He's a friend.
他是一个朋友。
I'm friends with him, I'm friends with Lane, I'm friends with Atia.
我是他的朋友，我是莱恩的朋友，我是阿提亚的朋友。
I get along with all those guys, but some of them don't get along with each other, I'll tell you that.
我和所有这些人都相处得很好，但他们中的一些人彼此相处不好，我告诉你。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But he challenged me to a grip strength contest, which actually was not grip strength.
但他向我挑战握力比赛，这实际上不是握力。
And he said, "This is the marker of longevity." And that little bastard hung from a bar, switching hands-
他说：“这是长寿的标志。”那个小混蛋挂在酒吧上，不断地换手——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for 12-plus minutes.
12分钟以上。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In the rain.
在雨中。
Now, he had someone toweling off the bar.
现在，他已经有人用毛巾擦掉酒吧了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But that is a very impressive grip strength/endurance score.
但这是一个非常令人印象深刻的握力/耐力分数。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As long as we're on this, this has become like kind of an online thing.
只要我们继续这样做，这就变得有点像网上的事情了。
People want to challenge each other with, "Here are my biometrics." You asked, what are the markers of longevity?
人们想要互相挑战，“这是我的生物识别信息。”你问，长寿的标志是什么？
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Bryan Johnson is big on, "These are my markers." Those have become controversial lately because it's unclear the markers were all collected at the same date.
布莱恩·约翰逊 (Bryan Johnson) 很高兴地说：“这些是我的标记。”这些最近引起了争议，因为尚不清楚这些标记都是在同一日期收集的。
There's questions about, for instance, it's weird that testosterone would be elevated, but not showing LH means you're probably enhanced.
例如，有人提出疑问，睾丸激素升高很奇怪，但不显示 LH 就意味着你可能会增强。
And if he is, cool, but people need to be very open.
如果他是，那很酷，但人们需要非常开放。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The nice thing about what Paul showed is he showed the full-length video.
保罗展示的好处是他展示了完整的视频。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You have to show the full-length video.
您必须展示完整长度的视频。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Folks, Bryan, I'm calling you out specifically.
伙计们，布莱恩，我特意叫你们出来。
You can't post VO2 max and not show the actual ride-
您不能发布最大摄氧量而不显示实际骑行情况 -
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Good work
干得好
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and the read off the-
并读出-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you have to show video.
你必须展示视频。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
People don't trust it anymore.
人们不再信任它了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so the point here is, is grip strength?
所以这里的重点是，是握力吗？
Is it VO2 max?
是最大摄氧量吗？
Is it your testosterone relative to free testo?
是你的睾丸激素相对于游离睾酮吗？
It's all these things.
就是所有这些事情。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like you said, if I were to step back and say, "Is there a single physical metric?" I think you got me.
就像你说的，如果我退后一步说：“是否有一个单一的物理指标？”我想你明白了我。
I think that-
我认为——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the ability to run fast without blowing a gasket-
无需吹气即可快速运行的能力-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or injuring yourself in some way-
或以某种方式伤害自己-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
run fast for you, would be it.
为你跑得快一点，就这样了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I did not think about that, and I certainly wouldn't have said that at the beginning of this conversation.
我没有想到这一点，而且我当然不会在谈话开始时这么说。
So I think it's a very important insight, and that, if nothing else, should motivate everybody to get better at it.
所以我认为这是一个非常重要的见解，至少应该激励每个人在这方面做得更好。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they can check out the video that we did.
他们可以查看我们制作的视频。
What you said earlier has become, to me, and will remain my goal.
你之前所说的对我来说已经成为并将继续是我的目标。
I think that well-being, physical well-being, mental well-being, is the ability to exert, express pressure mentally and physically.
我认为幸福，身体健康，心理健康，是指在精神和身体上发挥、表达压力的能力。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like sit down, to actually generate pressure around doing something hard that takes an organization of mind and body.
就像坐下来，真正在做一些需要身心协调的困难事情时产生压力。
It could be a physical pursuit.
这可能是一种身体上的追求。
And then to feel peace from the better expression of that cognitive or physical or creative endeavor.
然后从更好地表达认知、身体或创造性努力中感受到平静。
I think this pressure piece thing is more than nontrivial.
我认为这个压力件的事情不仅仅是微不足道的。
I think it's the essence of what I've been seeking my whole life, the ability to exert pressure and to create things-
我想这就是我一生所追求的本质，施加压力和创造事物的能力——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that are meaningful, and then the ability to feel peace.
这是有意义的，然后是感受到平静的能力。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, I love that.
是的，我喜欢那个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, it's yours.
好吧，它是你的了。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You came up with it.
你想出了它。
I'm just-
我只是——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, but I was applying it to specifically a task, a 100-meter sprint task.
是的，但我将其应用到一项具体任务上，即 100 米短跑任务。
And you've taken it and, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
你已经接受了它，是的，这很有意义。
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because you got to sleep at night, and you got to train hard.
因为晚上要睡觉，而且要刻苦训练。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You got to do your, if you're me, formal education, and then you got to also relax and have a good time.
如果你是我的话，你必须接受正规教育，然后你也必须放松并享受美好时光。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
And can you do them all at the same time?
你能同时做所有这些吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
That's the key.
这就是关键。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Can you structure your days in a way where the first two-thirds is just pure pressure, and be okay with that because you know there's peace coming-
你能否以一种前三分之二纯粹是压力的方式来安排你的日子，并接受这一点，因为你知道和平即将到来——
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because of some of the things that you pressured upon yourself.
因为你给自己施加了一些压力。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Love it.
喜欢它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I love it, and it's all yours, Stu.
好吧，我喜欢它，它都是你的，斯图。
And I have to say, it's been years, I've been wanting to sit down and talk with you for a very long time.
我不得不说，多年来，我一直想坐下来和你谈谈。
We run into each other at track meets.
我们在田径运动会上相遇。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
We do.
我们做到了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's a real honor and pleasure.
这是一种真正的荣幸和高兴。
You've taught us so much, and there's much more.
您教会了我们很多，而且还有更多。
So I hope you'll come back at some point and we'll talk about other things as things evolve, but-
所以我希望你能在某个时候回来，我们会随着事情的发展讨论其他事情，但是-
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Talk about sprinting.
谈论短跑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Talk about sprinting.
谈论短跑。
And I'll do a dangerous thing, which is to say if folks want to go to a track meet, I'll be at the track meets.
我会做一件危险的事情，也就是说，如果人们想去田径运动会，我就会参加田径运动会。
And I'll probably be letting people know when I'll be at track meets.
我可能会让人们知道我什么时候参加田径运动会。
I go as a fan.
我以粉丝的身份去。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm not looking for attention there.
我不是在那里寻求关注。
I'm actually there to just enjoy the incredible expression of the athletes, both physical and emotional expression.
事实上，我来这里只是为了欣赏运动员令人难以置信的表达，无论是身体上的还是情感上的表达。
It's a real beautiful thing.
这真是一件美丽的事情。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Yeah, it really is.
是的，确实如此。
No, I appreciate you, and I appreciate you showing up to those meets and talking about those meets.
不，我很感谢你，也很感谢你出席这些会议并谈论这些会议。
It's important for our possibly dying sport.
这对于我们可能消亡的运动来说很重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
So it's important that we get more people out to these meets and support track and field, the foundation of human movement.
因此，重要的是我们让更多的人参加这些比赛并支持田径运动，这是人类运动的基础。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, you're a legend, as everyone says, in the sport and outside of it too.
好吧，正如大家所说，无论是在这项运动中还是运动之外，你都是一个传奇人物。
Thanks so much for your time.
非常感谢您抽出时间。
It's been a real pleasure and an honor.
这真是一种荣幸和荣幸。
Stuart McMillan:
斯图尔特·麦克米兰：
Thanks, Andrew.
谢谢，安德鲁。
Appreciate you.
感谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Stu McMillan.
感谢您参加今天与 Stu McMillan 的讨论。
To learn more about his work and to find links to resources that Stu provides, please see the show note captions.
要了解有关他的工作的更多信息并查找 Stu 提供的资源链接，请参阅节目注释标题。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请通过单击 Spotify 和 Apple 上的关注按钮来关注播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review, and you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您可以给我们留下五星级的评论，现在您可以在 Spotify 和 Apple 上给我们留下评论。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客或嘉宾有意见，或者您希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑的主题，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这本书是我花了五年多时间编写的，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验。
And it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它涵盖了从睡眠到运动再到压力控制的所有协议，以及与注意力和动机相关的协议，当然，我为所包含的协议提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." And if you're not already following me on social media, I am Huberman Lab on all social media platforms.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 Huberman Lab。
So that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客上的信息不同。
Again, it's Huberman Lab on all social media platforms.
同样，所有社交媒体平台上都是 Huberman Lab。
And if you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as what we call protocols in the form of one to three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep, how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及我们所说的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议，涵盖从如何优化睡眠、如何优化多巴胺、故意冷暴露等所有内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training.
我们有一个基本的健身方案，涵盖心血管训练和阻力训练。
All of that is available completely zero cost.
所有这些都是完全零成本可用的。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to Newsletter, and enter your email.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的菜单选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯，然后输入您的电子邮件。
And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Stu McMillan.
再次感谢您参加今天与 Stu McMillan 的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
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