How to Improve Your Teeth & Oral Microbiome for Brain & Body Health | Dr. Staci Whitman
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Dr. Stacy Wittman.
今天我的嘉宾是史黛西·惠特曼博士。
Dr. Stacy Wittman is a functional dentist with expertise treating both adult and pediatric patients.
Stacy Wittman 博士是一位功能牙医，拥有治疗成人和儿童患者的专业知识。
She focuses on oral health as a key feature of overall gut health and a powerful modulator of brain longevity, heart health, hormones, and fertility in both men and in women.
她专注于口腔健康，认为口腔健康是整体肠道健康的一个关键特征，也是男性和女性大脑寿命、心脏健康、激素和生育能力的强大调节剂。
Today, we discuss many of the common myths about tooth and gum care, and how to use specific nutrition, breathing, and cleaning methods to repair cavities, whiten teeth, and freshen breath, while at the same time improving the oral microbiome.
今天，我们讨论许多关于牙齿和牙龈护理的常见误区，以及如何使用特定的营养、呼吸和清洁方法来修复蛀牙、美白牙齿和清新口气，同时改善口腔微生物群。
This is very important because, as Dr. Wittman explains, most of the things that people do in pursuit of better tooth health and appearance and fresh breath actually damage their oral microbiome and indeed can lead to serious cardiovascular issues.
这非常重要，因为正如威特曼博士所解释的那样，人们为了追求更好的牙齿健康和外观以及清新口气而做的大多数事情实际上会损害他们的口腔微生物组，并且确实会导致严重的心血管问题。
So today we discuss how to brush, how to floss.
所以今天我们讨论如何刷牙，如何使用牙线。
I know we've all heard that we need to brush and floss, but Dr. Wittman explains exactly how to do those so that they are of the maximum benefit for our tooth health, gum health, and oral health generally.
我知道我们都听说过我们需要刷牙和使用牙线，但威特曼博士准确地解释了如何做到这些，以便它们对我们的牙齿健康、牙龈健康和口腔健康产生最大的好处。
We also discuss the science and benefits of things like tongue scraping and oil pulling.
我们还讨论了刮舌和油拔等方法的科学性和好处。
And we discuss fluoride, which of course is a very controversial and timely topic nowadays.
我们讨论氟化物，这当然是当今一个非常有争议且及时的话题。
It's a very interesting conversation that I believe everyone, young, old, parents, and kids need to be aware of.
这是一次非常有趣的对话，我相信每个人，无论年轻人、老年人、父母和孩子都需要注意。
We also discuss treating things like tongue ties, deviated septums, canker sores, and more.
我们还讨论了舌系带短、鼻中隔偏曲、口腔溃疡等疾病的治疗。
By the end of today's episode, you'll have the most up-to-date knowledge about how to take care of your oral health, both for aesthetic reasons and, of course, to reduce cavities and gum disease, and in doing so, how to support your brain and heart longevity.
在今天的节目结束时，您将获得有关如何照顾口腔健康的最新知识，不仅是为了美观，当然还有减少蛀牙和牙龈疾病，以及如何支持您的大脑和心脏的寿命。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, this episode does include sponsors.
为了与这个主题保持一致，这一集确实有赞助商。
And now for my discussion with Dr. Stacy Wittman.
现在我与 Stacy Wittman 博士进行讨论。
Dr. Stacy Wittman, welcome.
史黛西·惠特曼博士，欢迎光临。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Thank you, Andrew.
谢谢你，安德鲁。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm super excited to talk about oral health from all perspectives.
我非常高兴能够从各个角度谈论口腔健康。
Your public-facing content, especially on Instagram, has completely transformed the way I think about this thing that I call my mouth, that people think of as their teeth and their mouth and their breath and their tongue and all this stuff, as a key site for evaluating and maintaining health of my brain, my body, and today you'll make it clear as to why that's the case.
你们面向公众的内容，特别是在 Instagram 上，彻底改变了我对这个我称之为嘴的东西的看法，人们认为我的嘴是他们的牙齿、他们的嘴、他们的呼吸、他们的舌头和所有这些东西，作为评估和维护我的大脑、我的身体健康的关键网站，今天你会清楚地解释为什么会这样。
I'd like to just start by looking at this oral health thing through the lens of what I think most people think of when they hear the words oral health, which is people want, it seems, whitish or very white teeth, depending on their preference.
我想首先从大多数人听到“口腔健康”这个词时想到的角度来看待口腔健康问题，人们似乎想要白色或非常白的牙齿，具体取决于他们的喜好。
They want fresh breath, or at least to not have bad-smelling breath.
他们想要清新的口气，或者至少没有难闻的口气。
And they want their mouth to sort of feel good, right?
他们希望自己的嘴感觉良好，对吧？
The question I have is what are some of the things that many, many people do in trying to have white teeth, fresh breath, that actually are very destructive for our teeth and our oral microbiome?
我的问题是，许多人为了拥有洁白的牙齿、清新的口气而做的一些事情，实际上对我们的牙齿和口腔微生物组具有很大的破坏性？
And if we go through that entry point into this conversation, then we can get into some of the specifics of why that is.
如果我们通过这个对话的切入点，那么我们就可以了解其中的一些细节。
So what's something that you see many people doing in terms of trying to have bright white teeth that actually is harming their teeth?
那么，你看到许多人为了拥有亮白的牙齿而做的事情实际上是在伤害他们的牙齿吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure.
当然。
Great question.
很好的问题。
Great way to start off.
很好的开始方式。
So I first want to commend you and thank you for including the oral microbiome and oral health as one of the pillars of health.
因此，我首先要赞扬并感谢您将口腔微生物组和口腔健康作为健康的支柱之一。
That means a great deal, and it has a lot to do with this answer.
这意义重大，而且与这个答案有很大关系。
So unfortunately, we have been taught that we need to carpet bomb the mouth.
不幸的是，我们被告知我们需要对嘴巴进行地毯式轰炸。
We need to add astringents and alcohols and foaming agents and really strong essential oils to clean, disinfect, and to freshen the breath.
我们需要添加收敛剂、酒精、发泡剂和强效精油来清洁、消毒和清新口气。
But what we're doing with these products is damaging our delicate microbiome, which can make things far worse.
但我们对这些产品所做的事情正在损害我们脆弱的微生物群，这可能会让事情变得更糟。
So much of oral health is a less is more approach, and it's not so product heavy.
口腔健康在很大程度上是一种“少即是多”的方法，而且产品并不那么重。
It should be more focused on diet and lifestyle, like anything with health.
它应该更加关注饮食和生活方式，就像任何与健康有关的事情一样。
Unfortunately, dentistry's been separated and compartmentalized out of the body, like much of medicine.
不幸的是，就像许多医学一样，牙科已经从身体中分离出来。
We're so specialized and sub-specialized, and dentistry is included in that, and we need to remember it's all interconnected.
我们是如此专业化和亚专业化，牙科也包括在内，我们需要记住它们都是相互关联的。
And what we're doing to the mouth, whether it be strong toothpaste, mouthwashes, certain gums, and even what we're eating, and how we're breathing can really do a number on our oral health.
我们对口腔所做的事情，无论是强力牙膏、漱口水、某些牙龈，甚至我们吃的东西以及我们的呼吸方式，都确实对我们的口腔健康产生影响。
And so it's taking a different perspective, and it's a bit of a mindset shift to really get us back to optimization.
因此，它采取了不同的视角，这是一种思维方式的转变，可以真正让我们回到优化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So do you think that most of the common over-the-counter toothpastes, while they smell minty or pepperminty and taste minty and pepperminty, are they effectively cleaning teeth?
那么，您认为大多数常见的非处方牙膏虽然闻起来有薄荷味或薄荷味，味道也有薄荷味和薄荷味，但它们是否能有效清洁牙齿呢？
And are they causing any damage to teeth by virtue of what they have in them?
它们是否会对牙齿造成任何损害？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It really depends on the ingredients.
这实际上取决于成分。
So I'd like people to start looking at their oral healthcare products like they're starting to look at food labels.
因此，我希望人们开始像查看食品标签一样查看他们的口腔保健产品。
We should be reading the ingredients and understanding why they're there and what they're doing.
我们应该阅读成分并了解它们为何存在以及它们的作用。
Where are they sourced from?
它们来自哪里？
But certainly, I think so many of us feel it has to burn and foam to be effective.
但当然，我认为我们很多人都觉得它必须燃烧和泡沫才能有效。
What is toothbrushing?
什么是刷牙？
What is it really doing?
它到底在做什么？
You're disrupting the biofilm, which is really the plaque or the bacteria that are adhered to your teeth.
你正在破坏生物膜，生物膜实际上是粘附在牙齿上的牙菌斑或细菌。
And so all these extra bells and whistles, it's sort of extra credit, but if you're perfectly imbalanced, we shouldn't need all these stripping agents and strong mints and things.
所以所有这些额外的花哨的东西，这是一种额外的功劳，但如果你完全不平衡，我们不应该需要所有这些剥离剂和烈性薄荷糖之类的东西。
So, for example, sodium lauryl sulfate is a foaming agent, but it also can be really disruptive to the oral mucosa and can lead to oral ulceration.
例如，十二烷基硫酸钠是一种发泡剂，但它也会真正破坏口腔粘膜并导致口腔溃疡。
So that's a common ingredient that causes foaming that I would argue we do not need.
因此，这是一种引起泡沫的常见成分，我认为我们不需要。
Your toothpaste shouldn't foam, nor should it burn.
你的牙膏不应该起泡，也不应该燃烧。
Essential oils, we think, oh, that those are ...
精油，我们认为，哦，那些是......
natural, they're healthy, right?
自然，他们很健康，对吗？
Well, many are very antimicrobial, and so they could be damaging the healthy bacteria in your mouth.
很多都具有很强的抗菌性，因此它们可能会损害口腔中的健康细菌。
So that's where that strong burn after many toothpastes, you really don't need that.
所以这就是用很多牙膏后强烈烧伤的地方，你真的不需要它。
And if your breath is so bad or you have halitosis that you feel the need for that, then I would argue, well, let's dig deeper.
如果你的口气很糟糕或者你有口臭，以至于你觉得有必要这样做，那么我会说，好吧，让我们深入研究一下。
Why is your breath so imbalanced?
为什么你的呼吸如此不平衡？
There's probably something else going on.
可能还有其他事情发生。
So I really encourage people to start learning about their products.
所以我真的鼓励人们开始了解他们的产品。
I think we just give dentistry and teeth, we push it to the side.
我认为我们只是提供牙科和牙齿，我们把它推到一边。
It's kind of an afterthought many times, and just like we're prioritizing skincare, shampoo, things that we're putting on our bodies, we need to be focused on the ingredients in our oral healthcare products, too.
很多时候，这都是事后才想到的，就像我们优先考虑护肤品、洗发水和我们身体上使用的东西一样，我们也需要关注口腔保健产品中的成分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Especially since we're literally putting it into our body-
特别是因为我们确实将它放入我们的身体中-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
not just on the surface of our body.
不只是在我们身体的表面。
What was the foaming agent again?
又是什么发泡剂呢？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sodium lauryl sulfate.
十二烷基硫酸钠。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And the problem is there's derivatives.
问题是还有衍生品。
So some cleaner versions might have coconut-derived SLS derivatives, and many people will do okay with those, but a common complaint I see in my office are oral ulcerations, and the first thing I think of is what's in your toothpaste.
因此，一些更清洁的版本可能含有椰子衍生的 SLS 衍生物，很多人都会接受这些，但我在办公室看到的一个常见抱怨是口腔溃疡，我首先想到的是牙膏中的成分。
Does it have SLS or a derivative?
它有 SLS 或其衍生产品吗？
Because we're all different and some people have more sensitivities, and will react more to those.
因为我们都是不同的，有些人更敏感，并对这些反应更敏感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Are oral ulcerations canker sores?
口腔溃疡是溃疡病吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or are canker sores-
或者是口腔溃疡-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Aphthous ulcers or yes.
口疮性溃疡还是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
So if one gets a canker sore, what does that reflect typically?
那么，如果一个人得了口腔溃疡，这通常反映了什么？
Let's assume the toothpaste doesn't have anything to do with it.
我们假设牙膏与此无关。
Is that a disruption in the microbiome?
这是微生物组的破坏吗？
Is it from a physical injury, like a bite to the gum?
是因为身体受伤，比如牙龈被咬伤吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Could be all.
可能是全部。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So it could be secondary to trauma, certainly.
所以它当然可能是继发于创伤的。
It can be viral related, so the herpes virus often will result in oral ulcerations.
它可能与病毒有关，因此疱疹病毒通常会导致口腔溃疡。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
HSV-1.
HSV-1。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
But also, and this is not on many people's radars, the mouth is the gateway into the body, and the mouth is the gut.
而且，很多人并没有注意到这一点，嘴是进入身体的门户，嘴就是肠道。
I want people to start thinking of it that way.
我希望人们开始这样思考。
So what happens in the mouth can be a reflection of what's happening in the gut.
因此，口腔中发生的情况可以反映肠道中发生的情况。
And so a lot of times when I have patients that come in with recurrent aphthous ulcers or ulcerations, that can be a sign of Crohn's or celiac, IBS, something going on deeper within that we need to be evaluating, food sensitivities, et cetera.
因此，很多时候，当我接诊的患者患有复发性口疮性溃疡或溃疡时，这可能是克罗恩病或乳糜泻、肠易激综合征、食物过敏等我们需要评估的更深层次的症状。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Eight Sleep.
我想稍微休息一下，并向我们的赞助商“八睡”表示感谢。
Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep-tracking capacity.
八睡眠公司生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能的智能床垫套。
Now, I've spoken before on this podcast about the critical need for us to get adequate amounts of quality sleep each and every night.
现在，我之前在这个播客上谈到过我们迫切需要每晚获得充足的优质睡眠。
Now, one of the best ways to ensure a great night's sleep is to ensure that the temperature of your sleeping environment is correct, and that's because in order to fall and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop about one to three degrees.
现在，确保一夜好眠的最佳方法之一是确保睡眠环境的温度正确，这是因为为了入睡并保持深度睡眠，您的体温实际上必须下降约一到三度。
And in order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature actually has to increase by about one to three degrees.
为了醒来时感觉神清气爽、精力充沛，您的体温实际上必须升高约一到三度。
Eight Sleep automatically regulates the temperature of your bed throughout the night according to your unique needs.
八睡眠会根据您的独特需求自动调节整个晚上的床温。
Now, I find that extremely useful because I like to make the bed really cool at the beginning of the night, even colder in the middle of the night, and warm as I wake up.
现在，我发现这非常有用，因为我喜欢让床在半夜变得非常凉爽，在半夜变得更冷，而在我醒来时变得温暖。
That's what gives me the most slow-wave sleep and rapid eye movement sleep.
这就是给我最慢波睡眠和快速动眼睡眠的原因。
And I know that because Eight Sleep has a great sleep tracker that tells me how well I've slept and the types of sleep that I'm getting throughout the night.
我知道这一点，因为八睡眠有一个很棒的睡眠追踪器，它可以告诉我我的睡眠质量以及我整晚的睡眠类型。
I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for four years now, and it has completely transformed and improved the quality of my sleep.
我已经睡在八睡眠床垫套上四年了，它彻底改变并改善了我的睡眠质量。
Their latest model, the Pod 4 Ultra, also has snoring detection that will automatically lift your head a few degrees in order to improve your airflow and stop you from snoring.
他们的最新型号 Pod 4 Ultra 还具有打鼾检测功能，可以自动将您的头部抬起几度，以改善气流并阻止您打鼾。
If you decide to try Eight Sleep, you have 30 days to try it at home, and you can return it if you don't like it, no questions asked.
如果您决定尝试八睡眠，您有 30 天的时间在家试用，如果您不喜欢，可以无条件退货。
But I'm sure that you'll love it.
但我确信您会喜欢它。
Go to eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $350 off your Pod 4 Ultra.
前往八睡眠.com/huberman 购买 Pod 4 Ultra 最高可节省 350 美元。
Eight Sleep ships to many countries worldwide, including Mexico and the UAE.
八号睡眠船运往世界各地的许多国家，包括墨西哥和阿联酋。
Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $350 off your Pod 4 Ultra.
再次强调，访问八sleep.com/huberman，您的 Pod 4 Ultra 最高可节省 350 美元。
Today's episode is also brought to us by BetterHelp.
今天的节目也是由 BetterHelp 为我们带来的。
BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online.
BetterHelp 提供由持证治疗师完全在线进行的专业治疗。
I've been doing weekly therapy for over 30 years.
我每周进行一次治疗已经有 30 多年了。
Initially, I didn't have a choice.
最初，我别无选择。
It was a condition of being allowed to stay in school.
这是被允许留在学校的一个条件。
But pretty soon I realized that therapy is an extremely important component to overall health.
但很快我就意识到治疗对于整体健康来说是极其重要的组成部分。
In fact, I consider doing regular therapy just as important as getting regular exercise, which of course I also do every week.
事实上，我认为定期治疗和定期锻炼一样重要，当然我每周都会这样做。
There are essentially three things that great therapy provides.
伟大的治疗本质上可以提供三件事。
First of all, it provides a good rapport with somebody that you can trust and talk to about any and all issues.
首先，它可以与您可以信任的人建立良好的融洽关系，并可以与您谈论任何和所有问题。
Second of all, it can provide support in the form of emotional support or directed guidance.
其次，它可以以情感支持或定向指导的形式提供支持。
And third, expert therapy can provide useful insights.
第三，专家治疗可以提供有用的见解。
With BetterHelp, they make it easy to find an expert therapist who you resonate with and can help you provide these benefits that come through effective therapy.
通过 BetterHelp，他们可以轻松找到与您产生共鸣的专家治疗师，并可以帮助您提供通过有效治疗带来的这些好处。
Also, because BetterHelp therapy is done entirely online, it's very time efficient and easy to fit into a busy schedule with no commuting to a therapist's office or sitting in a waiting room.
此外，由于 BetterHelp 治疗完全在线完成，因此非常省时，并且可以轻松适应繁忙的日程，无需通勤到治疗师办公室或坐在候诊室。
If you'd like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 BetterHelp，请访问 betterhelp.com/huberman。
For this month only, March 2025, BetterHelp is giving you the biggest discount offered on this show with 90% off your first week of therapy.
仅在 2025 年 3 月这个月，BetterHelp 将为您提供该节目中提供的最大折扣，第一周治疗可享受 90% 的折扣。
Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman to get 90% off your first week.
再次强调，最好是 betterhelp.com/huberman，第一周可享受 90% 的折扣。
This would probably be a good time to talk about the whole concept that teeth can essentially build themselves and destroy themselves independent of sugar intake and other factors.
现在可能是讨论整个概念的好时机，即牙齿本质上可以自行生长和自我破坏，而与糖摄入量和其他因素无关。
So if you would, could you just briefly walk us through this whole business of mineralization-
所以如果你愿意的话，你能简单地向我们介绍一下整个矿化过程吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and demineralization of teeth?
和牙齿脱矿质？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I find this so interesting, and later I'll share a little bit.
因为我觉得这个很有趣，稍后我会分享一些。
Full disclosure, I have a very complicated oral health history, and had I known what you're about to tell us, I think I would've spared myself a ton of pain.
坦白说，我有非常复杂的口腔健康史，如果我知道你要告诉我们的内容，我想我就能避免很多痛苦。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Potentially.
有潜力。
I'm sorry to hear that, but we'll unpack that.
听到这个消息我很遗憾，但我们会解开它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You weren't my dentist, unfortunately.
不幸的是，你不是我的牙医。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So.
所以。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I have stories to share, too, we'll get to as well.
我也有故事要分享，我们也会讲到。
I think many people do, and that's the problem.
我想很多人都这样做，这就是问题所在。
So I wasn't taught this in dental school, interestingly enough.
有趣的是，牙科学校没有教过我这一点。
So this is something I learned later out in practice, and it's the concept that your teeth can naturally remineralize if you have a small cavity.
这是我后来在实践中学到的东西，如果你有一个小蛀牙，你的牙齿可以自然地再矿化。
But let's start further back.
但让我们从更早的时候开始。
So your teeth are constantly going through demineralization and remineralization, and this is very natural, and any time we put anything into our mouth besides arguably neutral water, and this has to do with pH.
所以你的牙齿不断地经历脱矿质和再矿化，这是非常自然的，任何时候我们把除了中性水之外的任何东西放进嘴里，这都与 pH 值有关。
So any time we eat, our mouth is the beginning of the digestive system.
所以任何时候我们吃东西时，我们的嘴都是消化系统的开始。
So we release amylase, which is an enzyme that helps break down our food, and in doing that, the pH drops.
因此，我们会释放淀粉酶，这是一种有助于分解食物的酶，在此过程中，pH 值会下降。
This is how we start digestion.
这就是我们开始消化的方式。
When that happens, we lose minerals in our teeth.
当这种情况发生时，我们牙齿中的矿物质就会流失。
The acid will leach out calcium, phosphorus, and minerals from our teeth.
酸会从我们的牙齿中滤出钙、磷和矿物质。
But the concern is we don't want it to stay in that acidic state for too long, in that demineralized state for too long, because if we allow our body to do its thing, our saliva will naturally remineralize our teeth.
但令人担忧的是，我们不希望它在酸性状态下停留太久，在脱矿质状态下停留太久，因为如果我们允许我们的身体做它的事情，我们的唾液自然会使我们的牙齿再矿化。
This is all part of a healthy, balanced system.
这是健康、平衡系统的一部分。
So our saliva is this golden elixir of our body, and it contains immune cells and enzymes, but also the minerals that we should need, if balanced, to create that remineralization.
因此，我们的唾液是我们身体的金丹，它含有免疫细胞和酶，而且还含有我们需要的矿物质（如果平衡的话）来产生再矿化。
So there's something called the Stefan curve, and essentially it's showing us how our mouth will become acidic and neutral, and acidic and neutral throughout the day as we eat.
因此，有一种叫做斯特凡曲线的东西，本质上它向我们展示了我们的口腔在我们进食时如何变得酸性和中性，以及酸性和中性。
The problem is, in modern society, we tend to be snacking and grazing and sipping all of the time.
问题是，在现代社会，我们往往总是吃零食、吃东西、喝饮料。
So we're not giving our mouths enough of a break, enough of an opportunity to remineralize.
所以我们没有给我们的嘴巴足够的休息时间，没有足够的机会来重新矿化。
So many of us are staying in the state of constant acidity and demineralization.
我们中的许多人都处于持续酸性和脱矿质的状态。
But what's interesting is, so if you have a small cavity or lesion that hasn't yet truly cavitated, and a cavity means a hole.
但有趣的是，如果你有一个尚未真正空化的小空洞或病变，空洞就意味着有洞。
So if you look on an X-ray and I see a shadow on your tooth, it's called an incipient lesion.
因此，如果您在 X 光检查中看到牙齿上有阴影，则称为初期病变。
Those, if they're still in the enamel, those can quote unquote "heal" or remineralize, and this is where you would need to work with, let's say, a functional or biological dentist to understand how deep your cavity is.
那些，如果它们仍在牙釉质中，则可以引用不加引号的“治愈”或再矿化，这就是您需要与功能性或生物牙医合作的地方，以了解您的蛀牙有多深。
Once it becomes a hole, generally you do need some sort of treatment, but our body is meant for stability.
一旦变成了洞，通常你确实需要某种治疗，但我们的身体是为了稳定。
It knows what to do, but how you eat, how frequently you're eating, and then we can get into this, but how you're breathing and certainly the products you're using and your hygiene practices all factor in as well.
它知道要做什么，但你如何吃东西，你吃东西的频率，然后我们可以讨论这个，但你如何呼吸，当然你使用的产品和你的卫生习惯也都因素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So my understanding is that the minerals that make up teeth are not the same materials that are put into a lot of common toothcare products.
所以我的理解是，构成牙齿的矿物质与许多常见牙齿护理产品中的矿物质不同。
So without getting into a discussion right now about fluoride in water, we will get to that conversation a little bit later, but in order to frame that properly when we arrive there, could you explain why it is that fluoride is in most toothpastes when basically we don't have fluoride in our teeth at birth-
因此，现在不讨论水中的氟化物，我们稍后会进行讨论，但为了在我们到达那里时正确地进行讨论，您能否解释一下为什么大多数牙膏中都含有氟化物，而我们出生时牙齿中基本上没有氟化物 -
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
That's right
没错
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but there are other minerals in our teeth that certain toothpastes have.
但我们的牙齿中还含有某些牙膏所含有的其他矿物质。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so why would we give an artificial substance to our teeth?
那么为什么我们要给牙齿添加人造物质呢？
Maybe you could explain demineralization, remineralization in the context of fluoride and-
也许你可以在氟化物的背景下解释脱矿质、再矿化和-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
these other minerals.
这些其他矿物质。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So we have hydroxyapatite, which is essentially calcium and phosphorus, in our teeth.
我们的牙齿中含有羟基磷灰石，它本质上是钙和磷。
Our enamel is about 90% hydroxyapatite.
我们的牙釉质大约有 90% 是羟基磷灰石。
The dentin, which is the layer below the enamel, through the enamel, is about 60, and our bone has hydroxyapatite, too, about 60%.
牙本质是牙釉质下面的一层，穿过牙釉质，大约有 60%，我们的骨头也含有羟基磷灰石，大约有 60%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Our limb bones?
我们的四肢骨头？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
All bones.
都是骨头。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
60% hydroxyapatite.
60% 羟基磷灰石。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes, which is calcium and phosphorus.
是的，就是钙和磷。
Our saliva will also have calcium and phosphorus floating around, too.
我们的唾液中也会漂浮着钙和磷。
So what fluoride does is it throws off the hydroxyl group in hydroxyapatite, and so it changes it from hydroxyapatite to fluorapatite.
氟化物的作用是去掉羟基磷灰石中的羟基，从而将羟基磷灰石转变为氟磷灰石。
So it restructures it a bit.
所以它对其进行了一些重组。
When it does this, the bonds generally are considered stronger, and the dental crystalline structure is more densely packed, so it's known to be more acid-resistant.
当这样做时，键通常被认为更强，并且牙齿晶体结构更密集，因此它更耐酸。
And so we can get into the history of how they discovered this, but essentially, fluoride was put into toothpaste in about the 1960s.
所以我们可以了解他们如何发现这一点的历史，但本质上，氟化物是在 20 世纪 60 年代左右被添加到牙膏中的。
It became very popularized.
它变得非常流行。
So that is why many dentists love fluoride, is that you're using it, and it makes your teeth more acid-resistant, and also it has some antimicrobial effects, too.
这就是为什么许多牙医喜欢氟化物，因为你使用它，它使你的牙齿更耐酸，而且它也有一些抗菌作用。
The issue I have, and we can unpack this more later, is that it's not super selective.
我遇到的问题是，它不是超级选择性的，稍后我们可以进一步解开这个问题。
So it's not only selecting anaerobes or pathogenic bacteria, but it potentially could be damaging beneficial bacteria, too.
因此，它不仅选择厌氧菌或病原菌，而且还可能损害有益细菌。
So that's why toothpaste has fluoride in it.
这就是牙膏中含有氟化物的原因。
It also will lower the critical pH.
它还会降低临界pH值。
So the critical pH is the pH of which your enamel will start to demineralize or degrade, and for enamel, it's 5.5, and then for dentin, it's closer to 6.5.
因此，临界 pH 值是牙釉质开始脱矿或降解的 pH 值，对于牙釉质来说，它是 5.5，对于牙本质来说，它更接近 6.5。
So what fluoride does is it raises the pH resistance.
所以氟化物的作用是提高 pH 值耐受性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I see.
我明白了。
So for people that aren't familiar with pH, it's a measure of how alkaline or acidic a given environment or something is.
因此，对于不熟悉 pH 值的人来说，它是衡量给定环境或物体的碱性或酸性程度的指标。
And so what you're telling me is that fluoride makes teeth ultra strong.
所以你告诉我的是氟化物使牙齿变得非常坚固。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's not a mineral that teeth normally see.
它不是牙齿通常看到的矿物质。
Like if a child never used fluoridated toothpaste or drank fluoridated water, they basically, unless they happen to drink from a stream with fluoride in it Their teeth would rely on hydroxyapatite to remineralize.
就像一个孩子从未使用过氟化牙膏或喝过氟化水一样，除非他们碰巧喝了含有氟化物的溪流，否则他们的牙齿基本上会依靠羟基磷灰石来再矿化。
But we put fluoride into toothpaste and into water, and that allows teeth to become even stronger and even more acid-resistant.
但我们将氟化物放入牙膏和水中，这可以让牙齿变得更坚固、更耐酸。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Some out there argue the enamel structure actually is weaker.
有些人认为牙釉质结构实际上较弱。
This is very nuanced, but generally, the dental community believes it's a stronger version of enamel.
这是非常微妙的，但一般来说，牙科界认为它是牙釉质的更强版本。
Some will argue when you look under scanning electron microscopy, the crystalline structure can be more wave-like, and potentially the bonds could break more easily.
有些人会争辩说，当你在扫描电子显微镜下观察时，晶体结构可能更像波浪状，并且潜在的键可能更容易断裂。
But generally, topical fluoride does work.
但一般来说，局部氟化物确实有效。
However, it is no match for a poor diet.
然而，它无法与不良饮食相媲美。
So all of this really comes back to what you're eating.
所以所有这一切实际上都取决于你吃的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So it will make you less at risk for cavities, but it's not a shoo-in.
因此，它会降低您患蛀牙的风险，但这并不是十拿九稳的。
It's not for sure going to prevent decay.
这并不能肯定能防止腐烂。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What are the times in each 24-hour cycle when our teeth are repairing themselves?
在每个24小时周期中，我们的牙齿在哪些时间进行自我修复？
So, like in the middle of the night, provided somebody's asleep, they're not eating.
所以，就像在半夜，只要有人睡着了，他们就不会吃东西。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're not drinking unless they get up for a moment and have a sip of water or something.
除非他们站起来喝一口水或其他东西，否则他们不会喝酒。
In between meals, they're not eating.
在两餐之间，他们不吃东西。
If I just sort of naturally intermittent fast, I generally eat my first bite of food somewhere around 11:00 a.m., sometimes a little earlier.
如果我只是自然间歇性禁食，我通常会在上午 11:00 左右吃第一口食物，有时甚至早一点。
But that's just habit.
但这只是习惯。
It sort of falls under this intermittent fasting kind of thing.
它有点属于间歇性禁食之类的事情。
So I and many people have stretches of time of anywhere from three to 14 hours when we're not ingesting any food or caloric beverages.
因此，我和许多人都有很长一段时间不摄入任何食物或热量饮料，时间从 3 到 14 小时不等。
Is that when remineralization occurs?
那是再矿化发生的时候吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's a tough one.
这是一项艰难的任务。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Tricky word.
棘手的词。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's a tough one.
这是一项艰难的任务。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Remineralization.
再矿化。
We'll have to do it as a-
我们必须这样做——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Remineralization.
再矿化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Oh, that's right.
哦，是这样。
You've got to put the accent.
你必须加上重音。
Remineralization.
再矿化。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
That helps.
这有帮助。
You said that before.
你以前说过。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Is that when our teeth repair themselves?
那是我们的牙齿自我修复的时候吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
This is great.
这太棒了。
This is important.
这很重要。
So generally, after you eat, as I mentioned, your mouth will become more acidic.
所以一般来说，正如我提到的，吃完东西后，你的口腔会变得更酸。
After about 20 to 30 minutes, your saliva will naturally start to buffer.
大约20到30分钟后，你的唾液就会自然开始缓冲。
So it will start to rise and raise the pH up.
所以它会开始上升并提高 pH 值。
I like to see us eating more on a schedule.
我喜欢看到我们按计划吃得更多。
So generally, every two hours or so is when we'll get full optimal remineralization.
所以一般来说，每两个小时左右我们就会得到完全最佳的再矿化。
The issue is we are a society on the go, and we're grabbing crackers and chips and granola bars, and we're eating and nibbling and sipping on Frappuccinos, so we never allow that remineralization to take its full effect.
问题是我们是一个忙碌的社会，我们抓着饼干、薯条和格兰诺拉麦片棒，我们吃着、啃着、喝着星冰乐，所以我们永远不会让再矿化充分发挥作用。
So yes, when you're not putting food or drink, in theory, in your mouth, your saliva, if it's optimized, and we should talk about that as well, will be remineralizing.
所以，是的，理论上，当你不把食物或饮料放入嘴里时，你的唾液如果经过优化，我们也应该讨论这一点，就会再矿化。
But unfortunately, I do feel so many of us are just not in balance.
但不幸的是，我确实觉得我们很多人都不平衡。
We're dehydrated, we're mineral deficient, we're calcium deficient, we're phosphorus deficient, and we're mouth breathing, so the pH is changing.
我们脱水，缺乏矿物质，缺乏钙，缺乏磷，而且我们用嘴呼吸，所以pH值正在变化。
Just from mouth breathing can make the mouth more acidic.
仅用嘴呼吸会使口腔变得更酸。
And so there's a lot of factors at play.
所以有很多因素在起作用。
But in theory, if I can make one suggestion to someone out there who might be struggling with cavities, I want to know not only what are you eating, but how frequently are you eating it?
但从理论上讲，如果我可以向那些可能正在与蛀牙作斗争的人提出一个建议，我不仅想知道你在吃什么，而且想知道你吃它的频率是多少？
And this is a great reason why, from a dental standpoint, fasting, intermittent fasting, or time-restricted eating is a great way to combat dental decay.
这就是为什么从牙科的角度来看，禁食、间歇性禁食或限时饮食是对抗蛀牙的好方法。
It's also better on gut health as well.
它对肠道健康也有好处。
The migrating complex, the cleansability, just giving things a break and a rest is really important.
迁移复杂性、可清洁性、让事情休息一下确实很重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I grew up hearing that sugar causes cavities.
我从小就听说糖会导致蛀牙。
Does sugar cause cavities?
糖会导致蛀牙吗？
And when we say sugar, of course, all the biologists and people with a nutrition background roll their eyes because sugar is a very broad statement.
当然，当我们说到糖时，所有生物学家和具有营养背景的人都会翻白眼，因为糖是一个非常广泛的说法。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are simple sugars, there's fructose, there's sucrose, there's glucose, there's all sorts of variation within the simple and complex carbohydrates.
有简单的糖，有果糖，有蔗糖，有葡萄糖，简单和复杂的碳水化合物有各种各样的变化。
But when I'm saying sugar, I'm thinking about foods that taste sweet-
但当我说糖时，我想到的是甜味的食物-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or that contain sugar that's masked by other flavors, for sake of simplicity.
或者为了简单起见，含有被其他味道掩盖的糖。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Like added sugar.
就像添加糖一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like added sugar.
就像添加糖一样。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now if you buy a cracker, typically, if you look at the package, there's some sugar in there, which is ridiculous, but that's a whole-
现在，如果你买一块饼干，通常，如果你看一下包装，里面有一些糖，这很荒谬，但那是一个整体——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
other discussion.
其他讨论。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or we could just even say starchy carbohydrates.
或者我们甚至可以说淀粉类碳水化合物。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Fermentable carbohydrates is what I like to say.
我喜欢说的是可发酵碳水化合物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Fermentable carbohydrates.
可发酵碳水化合物。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
But that gets kind of nerdy.
但这有点书呆子气。
So not directly.
所以不直接。
It's really acid that causes cavities.
确实是酸导致蛀牙。
So what sugar does, and I like everyone to think of flour like sugar.
那么糖的作用是什么，我喜欢每个人都把面粉想象成糖。
This is also very important.
这也是非常重要的。
Because the bacteria in our mouth, they thrive, the pathogenic bacteria, they thrive on sugar.
因为我们口腔中的细菌会在糖的作用下繁衍生息，而致病菌也会在糖的作用下繁衍生息。
But flour will act like sugar in the mouth, so they'll also thrive on flours.
但面粉在口中的作用就像糖一样，所以它们也会在面粉中茁壮成长。
So the crackers-
所以饼干——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Bread
面包
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
the bread.
面包。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Even a good sourdough bread?
即使是好的酵母面包？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Well, the issue-
嗯，问题是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do I have to give up sourdough bread?
我必须放弃酵母面包吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I like sourdough, too.
我也喜欢酸面团。
The issue is more contact time.
问题是接触时间更长。
So things that are really sticky and dried, I would argue, so crackers or toast.
我认为，那些非常粘且干燥的东西，比如饼干或吐司。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Chips.
筹码。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Chips.
筹码。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Think about if you take a handful of Goldfish crackers.
想象一下您是否拿了一把金鱼饼干。
I haven't done that in a long time, but imagine that.
我已经很长时间没有这样做了，但想象一下。
It's all throughout your teeth, in between the teeth, down in the grooves.
它遍布你的牙齿，在牙齿之间，在凹槽里。
It's sticky.
它很粘。
It's just a smorgasbord for the bacteria.
这只是细菌的大杂烩。
And so what do the bacteria do when they metabolize the sugar or the flour?
那么细菌代谢糖或面粉时会做什么呢？
They release acid.
它们释放酸。
And so if that food substrate is stuck against the tooth for a long period of time, and these foods are also hyperpalatable, so we're meant to be just snacking and grazing, hitting the bliss point.
因此，如果食物基质长时间粘在牙齿上，并且这些食物也非常美味，那么我们就只能吃零食和吃草，达到幸福点。
Grab a handful, go do something, come back, grab another handful.
抓一把，去做点什么，回来，再抓一把。
You're just constantly feeding that bacteria, so your mouth is staying constantly acidic.
你只是不断地喂养这些细菌，所以你的口腔一直保持酸性。
So it's truly the acid that causes cavities, but I would argue that sugar or flour is kind of the catalyst that feeds the bacteria to create that imbalance.
因此，确实是酸导致了蛀牙，但我认为糖或面粉是一种催化剂，可以喂养细菌以造成这种不平衡。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is it fair to say, I know you prefer the term fermented carbohydrates or trying to, for most people who don't think in terms of starches versus fiber or simple, although nowadays people are more versed in that sort of thing.
公平地说，我知道你更喜欢“发酵碳水化合物”这个词，或者尝试，对于大多数不考虑淀粉与纤维或简单的人来说，尽管现在人们更熟悉这类事情。
Think of carbohydrates or foods, for that matter, that if you put them in your mouth and you just kind of kept them there for a little bit, that they would dissolve.
就这一点来说，想想碳水化合物或食物，如果你把它们放进嘴里，然后把它们放在那里一会儿，它们就会溶解。
Like a cracker.
就像饼干一样。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like a chip, like rice.
像薯片，像米饭。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Pasta.
面食。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like a piece of pasta, as opposed to a piece of broccoli, which would get soggy, but it's got a lot of fibrous-
就像一块意大利面，而不是一块西兰花，西兰花会变得湿漉漉的，但它有很多纤维——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
material, so it doesn't dissolve in the mouth.
材料，因此它不会溶解在口中。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And interestingly, broccoli or prebiotic fiber is what feeds the good bacteria.
有趣的是，西兰花或益生元纤维是有益细菌的饲料。
So I work mostly with children now, and we can talk about why that transition happened.
所以我现在主要和孩子们一起工作，我们可以讨论为什么会发生这种转变。
I used to work with adults.
我曾经和成年人一起工作。
But I teach them eat the rainbow.
但我教他们吃彩虹。
Feed the good guys.
喂好人。
Okay?
好的？
So we want to feed our healthy bacteria more than we want to feed the bad bacteria.
因此，我们更愿意喂养健康的细菌，而不是喂养有害的细菌。
And that's not to say you can't ever have fun and enjoy some fun foods, but it's all about balance.
这并不是说您永远不能享受乐趣并享受一些有趣的食物，但这一切都与平衡有关。
And so I think people don't realize the true root cause issue with dental disease is primarily diet.
所以我认为人们没有意识到牙科疾病的真正根本原因主要是饮食。
We're so hyper-focused on fluoride, and what's in your toothpaste, and the mouthwash, and all these products, but all of those things are really just masking the underlying issue, which is how are these bacteria behaving?
我们非常关注氟化物，以及牙膏、漱口水和所有这些产品中的成分，但所有这些实际上只是掩盖了根本问题，即这些细菌的行为方式？
What types of bacteria and in what ratios do we have them in the mouth?
我们口腔中存在哪些类型的细菌以及它们的比例是多少？
And how often are we feeding them?
我们多久喂一次它们？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I'm hearing this as a repeating theme, that diet and lifestyle are going to be more important than drugs or products for keeping the mouth looking good and healthy.
因此，我听到这是一个重复的主题，即饮食和生活方式将比药物或产品更重要，以保持口腔看起来良好和健康。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
For example, I personally haven't used fluoride for many, many years, and neither have my children, just because I know there are other ways to prevent disease.
例如，我个人已经很多很多年没有使用氟化物了，我的孩子也没有使用氟化物，只是因为我知道还有其他方法可以预防疾病。
And I have many of my patients that choose not to use fluoride or these products also.
我的许多患者也选择不使用氟化物或这些产品。
I think so many people have been taught you have to have this product, fluoride, et cetera, to stay cavity and disease free.
我想很多人都被告知必须使用氟化物等产品才能保持蛀牙和疾病。
But if you eat a clean diet, focus on just some of the pillars of health, that will translate into the mouth as well.
但如果您饮食清洁，只关注健康的一些支柱，这也会转化为口腔健康。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Perhaps it's worth mentioning just what some of the facets of a clean diet are through your lens of-
也许值得一提的是，从你的角度来看，清洁饮食的一些方面是——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
what you consider a clean diet.
您认为什么是清洁饮食。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure.
当然。
So I'm not advocating for any one diet, and I do believe we're all different, so what works for some people may not work for others.
所以我并不是提倡任何一种饮食，而且我确实相信我们都是不同的，所以对某些人有效的方法可能对其他人无效。
But generally what I suggest is really high-quality protein sources, a wide array of vegetables, fruit.
但总的来说，我建议的是真正的优质蛋白质来源、各种蔬菜、水果。
I would argue you should limit fruit, potentially, especially if you're a high decay risk, just because there is sugar, fructose.
我认为你应该限制水果的摄入量，特别是如果你有很高的腐烂风险，因为里面含有糖、果糖。
But I don't want to villainize fruit, as there's so many healthy benefits, the polyphenols and everything in it.
但我不想贬低水果，因为水果有很多健康益处、多酚和其中的一切。
So nuts, seeds, olives, pickles.
所以坚果、种子、橄榄、泡菜。
I love fermented foods for gut health, and then oral microbiome support, too.
我喜欢发酵食品以促进肠道健康，也喜欢口腔微生物组支持。
So essentially, a whole food diet.
所以本质上来说，就是全食饮食。
Things that come from the earth and more from farms and less from factories, less things out of bags.
来自地球的东西更多来自农场，更少来自工厂，更少来自袋子的东西。
Arguably, ultra-processed foods should be avoided as much as possible or minimized, and then trying to stick to minimally processed or unprocessed foods.
可以说，应该尽可能避免或尽量减少过度加工食品，然后尝试坚持食用最低限度加工或未加工的食品。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is it fair to say that if one does that, either a child or an adult, that their oral microbiome will not only get healthier, but that their teeth will get whiter?
可以公平地说，如果一个人这样做，无论是儿童还是成人，他们的口腔微生物群不仅会变得更健康，而且他们的牙齿也会变得更白？
And the reason I keep bringing this up is I think a lot of people want white teeth, or at least not yellow teeth.
我之所以不断提出这个问题，是因为我认为很多人想要洁白的牙齿，或者至少不想要黄牙。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Having been involved in the public-facing health education business for a little while now, I realize that nothing that is encouraged to be good for us that takes away from the way that people want to look-
参与面向公众的健康教育业务一段时间后，我意识到，任何对我们有益的鼓励行为都不会影响人们想要的样子——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and feel about how they look gets much traction.
并感受他们的外表很受关注。
So what I like about what you're telling us is that all the things of eating mostly unprocessed or minimally processed foods, those are going to be good for our entire body.
所以我喜欢你告诉我们的是，吃大部分未加工或最低限度加工的食物，这些对我们的整个身体都有好处。
Great that it's great for our oral microbiome.
太棒了，它对我们的口腔微生物组很有好处。
Probably is good for our whole body because of its effects on the microbiome, at least in part.
可能对我们的整个身体有益，因为它对微生物群有影响，至少部分如此。
But what makes teeth white, and will supporting the oral microbiome make our teeth whiter?
但是是什么让牙齿变白，支持口腔微生物群会让我们的牙齿更白呢？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And by the way, there are some folks out there whose teeth need to be less white, in my opinion.
顺便说一句，在我看来，有些人的牙齿需要不那么白。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Agree.
同意。
Totally agree.
完全同意。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now we're being somewhat facetious, but not really.
现在我们有点开玩笑，但不是真的。
But I think most people would like to have teeth that would be characterized as mostly white.
但我认为大多数人都希望拥有大部分白色的牙齿。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
We want to look good.
我们想要看起来不错。
I appreciate and respect that.
我对此表示赞赏和尊重。
I do think we've moved a little away from reality with some of that, so I agree with you.
我确实认为我们在某些方面已经偏离了现实，所以我同意你的观点。
I think there are teeth out there that could not be quite so bright, but you do you.
我认为有些牙齿不可能那么亮，但你做到了。
I think everyone should do what makes them happy.
我认为每个人都应该做让自己快乐的事情。
So what makes teeth white?
那么什么可以让牙齿变白呢？
So interestingly, if you look at a baby tooth next to an adult tooth, and I get this call all of the time from parents.
有趣的是，如果你看一下恒牙旁边的乳牙，我总是接到父母的电话。
So the child loses their first baby tooth, the adult tooth starts to come in, and adult teeth are quite a bit darker than baby teeth, which are very white and bright.
因此，孩子失去了第一颗乳牙，恒牙开始长出，恒牙比乳牙颜色深很多，乳牙非常洁白明亮。
And they're worried.
他们很担心。
"What's wrong with my child's teeth?
“我孩子的牙齿怎么了？
They're so yellow." That's actually a very natural shade of enamel.
它们太黄了。”这实际上是一种非常自然的珐琅色调。
And why is that?
这是为什么呢？
It all has to do with that crystalline structure and the mineralization.
这一切都与晶体结构和矿化有关。
So baby teeth are less mineralized, and the crystalline structure is a little more haphazardly arranged.
因此，乳牙的矿化程度较低，晶体结构的排列也更加随意。
It's not quite as organized.
它不太有组织。
So instead of Lincoln Logs lined up, it's more like pickup sticks to some degree.
因此，它不是排列整齐的林肯原木，在某种程度上更像是拾音器。
Why is that?
这是为什么？
Baby teeth are meant to resorb, dissolve, and fall out.
乳牙会吸收、溶解和脱落。
Okay?
好的？
So this is why baby teeth are also much more susceptible to decay.
这就是为什么乳牙也更容易腐烂。
So the whiteness is coming how the light reflects and refracts off the teeth, which is a lot of times why you'll hear if you use hydroxyapatite or even coconut oil is changing the surface, surface modification.
因此，白度取决于光如何从牙齿反射和折射，这就是为什么很多时候您会听到如果使用羟基磷灰石甚至椰子油正在改变表面、表面改性的原因。
So it's changing the way light reflects and refracts off that tooth to make it seem whiter and brighter.
因此，它正在改变光线反射和折射牙齿的方式，使其看起来更白更亮。
Now, certainly with adult teeth, if you're using bleaching agents, hydrogen peroxide or carbamide peroxide, some of the stronger bleachings, that's actually penetrating into the tooth and changing the structure, pulling out stain.
现在，当然对于恒牙来说，如果您使用漂白剂，过氧化氢或过氧化脲，一些更强的漂白剂，实际上会渗透到牙齿中并改变结构，去除污渍。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do people do that?
人们这样做吗？
They gargle with hydrogen peroxide?
他们用过氧化氢漱口吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Well, they do bleaching trays, essentially.
嗯，他们基本上是做漂白托盘的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Well, people will rinse with hydrogen peroxide, yes.
嗯，人们会用过氧化氢冲洗，是的。
And it will make your teeth brighter and whiter, but I'm telling you, it's going to do a number on your oral microbiome.
它会让你的牙齿更亮更白，但我告诉你，它会对你的口腔微生物群产生很大影响。
So I suggest it in a very limited fashion.
所以我以非常有限的方式建议它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The only time I ever had a bad canker sore- ...
我唯一一次患过严重的口腔溃疡-...
was because I gargled with 50% water, 50% hydrogen-
是因为我用50%的水、50%的氢气漱口-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Oh, interesting
哦，有趣
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
peroxide because an acupuncturist recommended it.
过氧化氢，因为针灸师推荐它。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He looked at my tongue and then he said, "You should do that." And then I did that, and then four or five days later, I had this nickel-sized canker sore on the roof of my mouth.
他看着我的舌头，然后说：“你应该这么做。”然后我就这样做了，四五天后，我的上颚出现了一个镍币大小的溃疡疮。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Too much.
太多了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I was like, "Ugh." And I will say, and I have no product affiliation whatsoever to any specific products, but by switching to hydroxyapatite-containing toothpaste, my teeth definitely have gotten whiter.
我当时想，“呃。”我想说的是，我与任何特定产品没有任何关系，但通过改用含羟基磷灰石的牙膏，我的牙齿肯定变得更白了。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I drink a lot of-
我喝了很多——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
yerba mate and coffee.
马黛茶和咖啡。
And I brush, but it was sort of a progressive issue of my teeth dimming.
我也刷牙，但这是我牙齿变暗的一个渐进问题。
So that's been great.
所以这很棒。
I also used to get cavities fairly often when I was a kid.
我小时候也经常得蛀牙。
I'll talk about that a little bit later.
我稍后会讨论这个问题。
But since switching to hydroxyapatite toothpaste, I've had stellar-
但自从改用羟基磷灰石牙膏后，我的牙膏效果非常好-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
dental reviews, assuming my dentist is looking carefully.
牙科检查，假设我的牙医正在仔细检查。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I believe he is, but we'll see.
我相信他是，但我们拭目以待。
And to me, it just makes so much more sense.
对我来说，这更有意义。
Give teeth the mineral that they normally use to remineralize.
为牙齿提供通常用于再矿化的矿物质。
It just makes sense.
这很有道理。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's biomimetic.
这是仿生的。
It depends on how you look at life, I think.
我认为这取决于你如何看待生活。
I prefer biomimetic materials personally.
我个人更喜欢仿生材料。
Again, it's a personal choice, but I agree with you.
再说一遍，这是个人选择，但我同意你的观点。
My patients who have switched to hydroxyapatite, and I'd like to point out not all hydroxyapatite toothpastes are the same.
我的患者已经改用羟基磷灰石牙膏，我想指出并非所有羟基磷灰石牙膏都是一样的。
It depends on sourcing and the other ingredients that are in there.
这取决于来源和其中的其他成分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
But generally speaking, their teeth look healthier, stronger, whiter and brighter.
但总的来说，他们的牙齿看起来更健康、更坚固、更白、更亮。
They just look more nourished, more hydrated.
它们只是看起来更有营养、更水润。
Their microbiomes look more balanced too.
他们的微生物群看起来也更加平衡。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
You're talking about kids and the fact that sometimes if their teeth are a little bit yellow, that's normal.
你谈论的是孩子，事实上，有时他们的牙齿有点黄，这是正常的。
One thing that I've been really struck by as the discussion around longevity seems more and more prominent these days is occasionally I'll run into somebody who's in their 70s or 80s, even 90s, and it's very rare to encounter somebody in their 80s or 90s whose teeth are not the color of this tea.
随着如今有关长寿的讨论似乎越来越突出，令我印象深刻的一件事是，我偶尔会遇到70多岁、80多岁、甚至90多岁的人，而很少会遇到80多岁或90多岁的人，他们的牙齿不是这种茶的颜色。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And for those that are listening, it's a very dark brown.
对于那些正在倾听的人来说，它是一种非常深的棕色。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've never seen somebody, unless they're doing something highly artificial with bleaching, I've never seen somebody 75 or older whose teeth aren't basically yellow to brown.
我从来没有见过有人，除非他们正在做一些高度人工的漂白，我从来没有见过75岁或75岁以上的人的牙齿基本上不是黄色到棕色的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Darker.
更暗。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And when you look at people when they're very close to death, their teeth often look very opaque.
当你观察那些濒临死亡的人时，他们的牙齿通常看起来非常不透明。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What is that?
那是什么？
Is that a blood flow issue?
这是血流问题吗？
What's going on there?
那里发生了什么事？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It can be xerostomia or dry mouth, so we definitely lose salivary capabilities as we age.
它可能是口干症或口干症，所以随着年龄的增长，我们肯定会失去唾液功能。
Very likely more mouth breathing, so mouth breathers will tend to have darker teeth because the teeth desiccate, they dry out, and over time you will experience mineral loss.
很可能更多的是用嘴呼吸，所以用嘴呼吸的人的牙齿往往会变黑，因为牙齿会干燥，随着时间的推移，你会经历矿物质流失。
Decades and decades of coffee, tea, wine will do it too.
几十年的咖啡、茶、酒也能做到这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I don't drink the wine, but I've definitely had-
好吧，我不喝酒，但我确实喝过——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
coffee, tea since I was a-
咖啡、茶，从我小时候起——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
They will stain
它们会弄脏
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
little kid.
小孩子。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've been drinking lattes since I was five.
我从五岁起就开始喝拿铁咖啡。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's good.
很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It's delicious.
很好吃。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Got to live life.
还得过生活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
But yeah.
但是是的。
And they're losing minerals too over time.
随着时间的推移，它们也会失去矿物质。
Your teeth take a beating.
你的牙齿受到打击。
We're living to be 100 now.
我们现在已经活到100岁了。
That's a long time to maintain this non-shedding surface in our body.
要在我们体内保持这种不脱落的表面需要很长时间。
And then it depends on the generation too, but some generations, especially as you mentioned, 70s, 80s, I'd wonder about tetracycline exposures when there's certain antibiotics that we don't use anymore that were known to darken the teeth, which is why they pulled them-
这也取决于世代，但有些世代，尤其是你提到的70年代、80年代，我想知道当我们不再使用某些抗生素时是否会接触四环素，这些抗生素已知会使牙齿变黑，这就是他们拔牙的原因-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm
嗯
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
from common prescription.
来自普通处方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That raises a question I'd never thought about before.
这提出了一个我以前从未想过的问题。
So if one takes a course of antibiotics, typically the advice is to ingest low-sugar kombucha, to have some-
因此，如果一个人服用一个疗程的抗生素，通常建议是摄入低糖康普茶，喝一些——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Bulgarian or Greek yogurt, repopulate the gut with the substrates for healthy microbiota.
保加利亚或希腊酸奶可以用健康微生物群的基质重新填充肠道。
We now know, because you've told us, that the mouth is the gut-
我们现在知道，因为你告诉我们，嘴就是肠-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
which makes perfect sense.
这是完全有道理的。
We are but a series of tubes.
我们只是一系列管子。
That's what I always-
这就是我一直以来——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
teach in my developmental neurobiology class, but it's true.
在我的发育神经生物学课上教书，但这是事实。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's true.
这是真的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In embryology, you learn that we're basically born of a bunch of tubes that kind of do their thing in development.
在胚胎学中，你会了解到我们基本上是由一堆在发育过程中发挥作用的管子诞生的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But the digestive tract obviously starts with the mouth.
但消化道显然是从嘴开始的。
So is it the case therefore that we should be repopulating the oral microbiome if we take a course of antibiotics?
那么，如果我们服用一个疗程的抗生素，是否就应该重新填充口腔微生物组呢？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Very commonly, patients, parents will report, "Gosh, my child just finished this course of antibiotics and now their teeth are stained," or their gums are inflamed or they just seem off, and it usually is because they've wiped out a lot of the healthy bacteria, too.
很常见的是，患者和家长会报告，“天哪，我的孩子刚刚完成了这个疗程的抗生素治疗，现在他们的牙齿被染色了，”或者他们的牙龈发炎，或者看起来很不舒服，这通常是因为他们也消灭了很多健康细菌。
It's all connected.
一切都是相连的。
So I do suggest my patients, if I have to write antibiotics, which I try to avoid, but sometimes we have to, that they do take a high-quality probiotic and increase their probiotic-rich fermented foods as well.
因此，我确实建议我的患者，如果我必须开抗生素（我尽量避免，但有时我们不得不这样做），他们确实服用高质量的益生菌，并增加富含益生菌的发酵食品。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So a high-quality probiotic pill, yeah.
所以这是一种高质量的益生菌药丸，是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Generally, yeah, because it's hard to get in enough, especially in kids, I would argue.
一般来说，是的，因为很难进入足够的状态，尤其是对于孩子来说，我认为。
Kids aren't usually eating a lot of sauerkraut and kimchi and-
孩子们通常不会吃很多酸菜和泡菜，而且——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
natto and...
纳豆和...
But you could do kefir, yogurt, as you mentioned, low-sugar kombucha, et cetera.
但你可以做开菲尔、酸奶，正如你提到的，低糖康普茶等等。
But usually a high-quality gut probiotic will have some benefit to the oral microbiome, but they also do have oral probiotics, too, focused on the bacteria of the mouth.
但通常高质量的肠道益生菌会对口腔微生物组有一些好处，但它们也确实有针对口腔细菌的口腔益生菌。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What about mouthwashes?
漱口水怎么样？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've never liked them.
我从来不喜欢他们。
They burn-
他们燃烧——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for one, and then I learned some years ago, and this is just kind of fun to cue to.
首先，几年前我就知道了，这只是一种有趣的暗示。
Years ago, it must've been eight, 10 years ago, I heard, I think on the Tim Ferriss podcast, somebody said, "Oh, mouthwashes will nuke certain chemicals that are essential for cardiovascular function, and so don't use them.
几年前，一定是八、十年前了，我听说，我想在蒂姆·费里斯的播客上，有人说，“哦，漱口水会破坏某些对心血管功能至关重要的化学物质，所以不要使用它们。
Don't use mint mouth strips.
不要使用薄荷味口贴。
Don't use any of that stuff." And at that time, that was considered clear, quote-unquote, "pseudoscience."
不要使用任何那些东西。”在当时，这被认为是明显的“伪科学”。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nobody really-- Like-
没有人真的——喜欢——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Outrageous
令人发指
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
alternative science, outrageous.
另类科学，令人发指。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now we know-
现在我们知道了——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
this is actually true.
这实际上是真的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This always delights me and scares me at the same time that many of the things that right now people go, "Ugh, that's pseudoscience." Like creatine seems to be a big thing right now.
这总是让我高兴又让我害怕，因为现在人们会说，“呃，那是伪科学。”就像肌酸现在似乎很重要。
10 years ago it was only the-
10年前，这只是——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
gym rats that were talking about it.
健身房里的老鼠们正在谈论它。
Now everyone's like, "Creatine, creatine."
现在每个人都会说，“肌酸，肌酸。”
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Everybody needs it.
每个人都需要它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, what's the story on mouthwashes and mouth strips and-
那么，关于漱口水和口腔贴的故事是什么呢——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
mints and things of that sort?
薄荷糖之类的东西？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That again, like people just want to have fresh breath or at least they don't want to be the person with the bad breath.
再说一遍，就像人们只是想呼吸新鲜，或者至少他们不想成为有口臭的人一样。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So Listerine and those stronger rinses in particular, they generally contain alcohol, astringents, really strong antimicrobials.
所以李施德林和那些特别强的漱口水，它们通常含有酒精、收敛剂和非常强的抗菌剂。
It says kills 99.9% of germs.
据说可以杀死 99.9% 的细菌。
Well, I think we've learned we're over-disinfecting.
嗯，我想我们已经知道我们消毒过度了。
This is why asthma is up, eczema, allergies are up in our children.
这就是为什么我们的孩子哮喘、湿疹、过敏症增多。
We now are saying get into the dirt, get exposed to microbes and things.
我们现在说的是进入泥土，接触微生物和其他东西。
So we're carpet bombing the mouth.
所以我们对嘴进行地毯式轰炸。
What we've learned through the data, and you're right, there are studies to show that chronic habitual use of these mouthwashes, including prescription-strength mouthwash, like chlorhexidine is a common one, it can damage the nitrate-reducing bacteria.
我们从数据中了解到，你是对的，有研究表明，长期习惯使用这些漱口水，包括处方强度漱口水，如氯己定是一种常见的漱口水，它会损害硝酸盐还原细菌。
So we have bacteria in the dorsum of our tongue specifically, that is essentially your tongue, that reduces nitrate to nitrite, which is a precursor to nitric oxide.
因此，我们的舌头背面（本质上就是您的舌头）有细菌，它们将硝酸盐还原为亚硝酸盐，亚硝酸盐是一氧化氮的前体。
Nitric oxide is a molecule that is really important for cardiovascular health and vasodilation and immune health.
一氧化氮是一种对心血管健康、血管舒张和免疫健康非常重要的分子。
So if we're indiscriminately carpet bombing the mouth with these really strong astringents and rinses, we can be affecting our cardiovascular health, and there are studies to show it can increase blood pressure and potentially cause cardiovascular issues.
因此，如果我们不加区别地用这些非常强的收敛剂和漱口水对口腔进行地毯式轰炸，我们可能会影响我们的心血管健康，并且有研究表明它会增加血压并可能导致心血管问题。
So when I hear someone say, "But my breath is so bad, I have to use this multiple times a day," I immediately think, "Well, gosh, why is your breath so bad?" It's normal to have bad breath after you eat garlic hummus or have a cup of coffee.
因此，当我听到有人说，“但是我的口气很糟糕，我必须每天多次使用这个”时，我立即想，“好吧，天哪，为什么你的口气这么糟糕？”吃大蒜鹰嘴豆泥或喝杯咖啡后出现口臭是正常的。
But if it's chronic halitosis or bad breath, I'm curious, do you have periodontal disease, which is a chronic inflammatory issue in the mouth, which can have a slew of downstream effects, which we should discuss in a bit.
但如果是慢性口臭或口臭，我很好奇，你是否患有牙周病，牙周病是口腔中的慢性炎症问题，会产生一系列下游影响，我们应该稍后讨论。
Or do you have an infection?
或者你有感染吗？
It could be a sinus infection, postnasal drip.
可能是鼻窦感染、鼻后滴漏。
Do you have tonsil stones or tonsillar infection?
您有扁桃体结石或扁桃体感染吗？
Like what else is going on in your mouth where you feel you need this multiple times a day to even feel like you can present yourself in public?
就像你嘴里发生的其他事情让你觉得你每天需要多次这样，甚至觉得你可以在公共场合展示自己？
Really strong essential oils and mints, again, I'd be cautious with that.
非常强效的精油和薄荷糖，我再次对此持谨慎态度。
Every once in a while, throwing in a piece of gum or a mint, of course.
当然，每隔一段时间，就扔一块口香糖或一片薄荷糖。
It's really the habitual use of these things that can be damaging.
习惯性使用这些东西确实会造成损害。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsor, AG1.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。
AG1 is an all-in-one vitamin mineral probiotic drink with adaptogens.
AG1 是一种含有适应原的一体化维生素矿物质益生菌饮料。
I've been taking AG1 daily since 2012, so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring this podcast.
自 2012 年以来，我每天都服用 AG1，所以我很高兴他们赞助这个播客。
The reason I started taking AG1, and the reason I still take AG1, is because it is the highest quality and most complete foundational nutritional supplement.
我开始服用 AG1 的原因，以及我仍然服用 AG1 的原因，是因为它是最高品质和最完整的基础营养补充剂。
What that means is that AG1 ensures that you're getting all the necessary vitamins, minerals, and other micronutrients to form a strong foundation for your daily health.
这意味着 AG1 可确保您获得所有必需的维生素、矿物质和其他微量营养素，为您的日常健康奠定坚实的基础。
AG1 also has probiotics and prebiotics that support a healthy gut microbiome.
AG1 还含有支持健康肠道微生物群的益生菌和益生元。
Your gut microbiome consists of trillions of microorganisms that line your digestive tract and impact things such as your immune system status, your metabolic health, your hormone health, and much more.
您的肠道微生物组由数万亿微生物组成，这些微生物排列在您的消化道中，并影响您的免疫系统状态、代谢健康、激素健康等。
So I've consistently found that when I take AG1 daily, my digestion is improved, my immune system is more robust, and my mood and mental focus are at their best.
因此，我一直发现，当我每天服用 AG1 时，我的消化能力得到改善，我的免疫系统更加强大，我的情绪和精神集中度也处于最佳状态。
In fact, if I could take just one supplement, that supplement would be AG1.
事实上，如果我只能服用一种补充剂，那么该补充剂就是 AG1。
If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。
They'll give you five free travel packs, plus a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2 with your order of AG1.
您订购 AG1 时，他们将赠送您 5 个免费旅行包，以及一年的维生素 D3 K2。
Again, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim this special offer.
请再次访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 领取此特别优惠。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Joovv.
今天的节目也是Joovv给我们带来的。
Joovv makes medical-grade red light therapy devices.
Joovv 生产医疗级红光治疗设备。
Now, if there's one thing that I have consistently emphasized on this podcast, it is the incredible impact that light can have on our biology.
现在，如果我在这个播客中一直强调一件事，那就是光对我们的生物学产生的令人难以置信的影响。
Now, in addition to sunlight, red light and near-infrared light sources have been shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of cellar and organ health, including faster muscle recovery, improved skin health and wound healing, improvements in acne, reduced pain and inflammation, even mitochondrial function, and improving vision itself.
现在，除了阳光之外，红光和近红外光源已被证明对改善细胞和器官健康的许多方面具有积极作用，包括更快的肌肉恢复、改善皮肤健康和伤口愈合、改善痤疮、减少疼痛和炎症，甚至线粒体功能，以及改善视力本身。
What sets Joovv lights apart, and why they're my preferred red light therapy device, is that they use clinically proven wavelengths, meaning specific wavelengths of red light and near-infrared light in combination to trigger the optimal cellar adaptations.
Joovv 灯的与众不同之处以及它们成为我首选红光治疗设备的原因在于它们使用经过临床验证的波长，这意味着特定波长的红光和近红外光相结合，可以触发最佳的酒窖适应。
Personally, I use the Joovv whole body panel about three to four times a week, and I use the Joovv handheld light both at home and when I travel.
就我个人而言，我每周大约使用 Joovv 全身面板三到四次，在家和旅行时我都会使用 Joovv 手持灯。
If you'd like to try Joovv, you can go to Joovv, spelled J-O-O-V-V, .com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Joovv，可以访问 Joovv，拼写为 J-O-O-V-V，.com/huberman。
Joovv is offering an exclusive discount to all Huberman Lab listeners with up to $400 off Joovv products.
Joovv 为所有 Huberman Lab 听众提供独家折扣，Joovv 产品最高可享受 400 美元的折扣。
Again, that's Joovv, spelled J-O-O-V-V, .com/huberman to get up to $400 off.
同样，这是 Joovv，拼写为 J-O-O-V-V，.com/huberman 最高可享受 400 美元折扣。
Okay, so those are some don'ts.
好吧，这些都是一些不该做的事情。
What are some things that we can do to improve the chemistry of our saliva and our mouth?
我们可以做哪些事情来改善唾液和口腔的化学成分？
And, just in full disclosure here, won't be the disclosure most people are anticipating.
而且，仅仅在这里全面披露，不会是大多数人所期待的披露。
What I'm trying to get at here is all the chemical aspects, the chemistry of the mouth.
我在这里想要了解的是所有化学方面，即口腔的化学成分。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because when I think about biology, just because of my training, I think you've got chemical forces and you have mechanical forces.
因为当我想到生物学时，仅仅因为我的训练，我认为你有化学力，也有机械力。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like there's stuff that literally like moves or you could chip a tooth or things that you shouldn't do to protect your teeth, and then there's how to create the right chemistry environment.
就像有些东西确实像移动一样，或者你可能会碎掉牙齿，或者你不应该做的事情来保护你的牙齿，然后就是如何创造正确的化学环境。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So that's really what we're talking about here, and I'm trying to figure out how could I have The best possible saliva.
这就是我们在这里讨论的真正内容，我正在努力弄清楚如何才能拥有最好的唾液。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Love it.
爱它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to be the person with the best possible saliva.
我想成为拥有最好口水的人。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Good spit.
好吐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Good spit.
好吐。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Don't underestimate your spit.
不要低估你的口水。
It's true.
这是真的。
It's the golden elixir of your body.
它是你身体的金丹。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if I were to put spit under the microscope, and then also take some of my spit and put it in mass spec and separate out all the goodies that are in there, just give us a sense of the kinds of goodies that are in spit.
因此，如果我将唾液放在显微镜下，然后取出一些唾液放入质谱仪中，并分离出其中的所有好东西，就可以让我们了解唾液中的好东西的种类。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
What's in there?
里面有什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because it just looks like a bunch of clear liquid to people, but-
因为它在人们看来只是一堆透明液体，但是——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
blood looks like just a bunch of red liquid, and there's a lot of stuff in there.
血液看起来只是一团红色的液体，里面有很多东西。
So-
所以——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
There's so much in it, and it's so important.
这里面有很多东西，而且非常重要。
So it has bacteria-
所以它有细菌——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
viruses, fungi, protozoa, hopefully in the right ratios.
病毒、真菌、原生动物，希望比例正确。
So we want beneficial bacteria.
所以我们需要有益细菌。
We all have about 5% pathological bacteria.
我们身上都有大约 5% 的病理细菌。
However, at that ratio, those may not be pathological.
然而，按照这个比例，这些可能不是病态的。
They're symbiotic at that point.
那时它们是共生的。
We are still unpacking and learning more about the oral microbiome.
我们仍在解开并了解更多有关口腔微生物组的信息。
But essentially, you'll have bacteria.
但本质上，你会有细菌。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's hormones.
有荷尔蒙。
There's free cortisol.
有免费的皮质醇。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
There's hormones.
有荷尔蒙。
There's-
有——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Cortisol's in our spit, folks.
伙计们，我们的口水里有皮质醇。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
There are enzymes to aid in digestion, there are immune cells, and there are minerals floating around, too.
有帮助消化的酶，有免疫细胞，还有漂浮在周围的矿物质。
So, think about how important saliva is to chew.
所以，想想咀嚼唾液是多么重要。
If you have dry mouth or you're sick, you can't chew and swallow your food, and this is why a lot of elderly people have a very hard time eating certain foods or if you've undergone cancer therapies and things.
如果你口干或生病了，你就无法咀嚼和吞咽食物，这就是为什么很多老年人很难吃某些食物，或者如果你接受过癌症治疗等。
Once you get xerostomia, dry mouth, your teeth can degrade so quickly.
一旦出现口干症、口干，你的牙齿就会很快退化。
So your saliva is so important.
所以你的唾液非常重要。
And so how do we keep it healthy?
那么我们如何保持它的健康呢？
Hydration.
保湿。
So many of us are dehydrated.
我们很多人都脱水了。
I would argue we aren't getting enough minerals either, so I suggest to some kids, I can tell in a child's mouth if they're hydrated or not by the way their saliva looks.
我认为我们也没有获得足够的矿物质，所以我建议一些孩子，我可以通过孩子的唾液外观来判断他们是否缺水。
If it looks more thick and ropy and mucousy, they're dehydrated.
如果它看起来更厚、更粘、更有粘液，那么它们就脱水了。
If it looks like water, it's healthy.
如果它看起来像水，那就是健康的。
This is without any tests.
这是没有任何测试的情况。
So put a pinch of salt in your water or some electrolytes.
因此，在水或一些电解质中加入少许盐。
That can really help with bioavailability and absorption.
这确实有助于提高生物利用度和吸收。
How you're breathing is incredibly important, too, for your salivary health.
您的呼吸方式对于您的唾液健康也非常重要。
So if you're mouth breathing, you will have less saliva.
所以如果你用嘴呼吸，你的唾液就会减少。
Your mouth's going to dry out.
你的嘴会变干的。
The pH will drop, and you're going to be in trouble.
pH 值会下降，你就会遇到麻烦。
Dry mouth leads to cavities.
口干会导致蛀牙。
Dry mouth leads to gum disease.
口干会导致牙龈疾病。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And then the foods we eat, of course, too, we want to have a mineral-rich diet.
当然，我们吃的食物也是富含矿物质的饮食。
So many of us are mineral deficient.
我们很多人都缺乏矿物质。
We're magnesium deficient.
我们缺镁。
We're fat-soluble vitamin deficient, particularly vitamin D3, K2.
我们缺乏脂溶性维生素，特别是维生素D3、K2。
So I think it is good-- I like the idea of test, don't guess.
所以我认为这很好——我喜欢测试的想法，而不是猜测。
If you have the capability to work with a doctor to see where you are with some of these things to know if you need to supplement or not or how you can change your diet.
如果您有能力与医生合作，了解您对其中一些事情的了解，以了解您是否需要补充或如何改变您的饮食。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sorry to interrupt, but-
抱歉打扰，但是——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
would I test my saliva specifically?
我会专门测试我的唾液吗？
Is there a good saliva test out there?
有没有好的唾液测试？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
That would be a different test, so this would be more of a blood test.
那将是一个不同的测试，所以这更像是一次血液测试。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like a standard blood test or-
就像标准的血液测试或-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
A standard blood test, but there is salivary analysis, and we should discuss the importance of testing your oral microbiome.
标准的血液测试，但有唾液分析，我们应该讨论测试口腔微生物组的重要性。
I think just like so many of us test our gut microbiomes now, GI mapping, stool tests to understand what's happening in the gut, there's salivary analysis now, and this is what a lot of functional dentists are working toward.
我认为就像我们现在很多人测试肠道微生物组一样，通过胃肠道图谱、粪便测试来了解肠道中发生的情况，现在还有唾液分析，这也是许多功能性牙医正在努力的方向。
I do salivary analysis and biomarker analysis in my practice.
我在实践中进行唾液分析和生物标志物分析。
We can tell a lot through a patient's saliva and what ratio and types of bacteria are there, as well as fungus and viruses and things as well.
我们可以通过患者的唾液了解很多信息，了解其中细菌的比例和类型，以及真菌和病毒等。
So if you have the capability, if you really want to optimize your health, I suggest testing your oral microbiome because there are certain keystone pathogens that you may have that you're unaware of that can lead to many downstream issues.
因此，如果您有能力，如果您真的想优化您的健康，我建议您测试您的口腔微生物组，因为您可能存在某些您没有意识到的关键病原体，这些病原体可能会导致许多下游问题。
And we can jump into this now, but the oral-systemic connection is really blowing up now in how oral bacteria, specifically pathogens, can contribute to Alzheimer's and dementia, infertility issues, pregnancy issues, cardiovascular issues, autoimmune disease, rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, obesity, mood disorders, cancers.
我们现在可以开始讨论这个问题了，但是口腔系统的联系现在确实正在爆发，因为口腔细菌，特别是病原体，如何导致阿尔茨海默氏症和痴呆症、不孕问题、怀孕问题、心血管问题、自身免疫性疾病、类风湿性关节炎、糖尿病、肥胖、情绪障碍、癌症。
It goes on and on.
它一直持续着。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
All coming back to the bacteria in our mouth.
一切都回到了我们口腔中的细菌。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amazing.
太棒了。
I really want to not just double-click, but really dive into that, no pun intended.
我真的不只是想双击，而是真正深入其中，没有双关语的意思。
I do want to just ask because a subset of listeners will be interested in how they could get their saliva tested.
我确实想问一下，因为一部分听众会对如何测试唾液感兴趣。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've never had my saliva tested.
我从来没有测试过我的唾液。
I will say that based on your teachings online, I've made an effort to drink more water in addition to massive amounts of yerba mate- ...
我想说的是，根据您在网上的教导，除了大量的马黛茶之外，我还努力喝更多的水-...
and small amounts of coffee.
和少量咖啡。
I've made an effort to-- Well, I switched to a hydroxyapatite-containing toothpaste, which has been terrific for all sorts of reasons.
我已经努力——嗯，我改用含有羟基磷灰石的牙膏，出于各种原因，它都很棒。
I've really emphasized nasal breathing.
我真的很强调鼻呼吸。
That's something I was into before through the sports performance world because my friend Brian McKenzie, who's a human performance expert, was really big on this a while ago.
这是我之前在体育表演领域所热衷的事情，因为我的朋友布莱恩·麦肯齐（Brian McKenzie）是一位人类表现专家，不久前对此非常感兴趣。
And the healthiest my breathing and cardiovascular function ever was for me was when something I don't suggest people do unless it's their profession, I was boxing for about a five-year span, and I had a fitted mouthpiece, and I would do my running, my road work, with my mouthpiece in breathing through my nose.
对我来说，我的呼吸和心血管功能最健康的时候是当我不建议人们做的事情，除非这是他们的职业时，我打了大约五年的拳击，我有一个合适的吹嘴，我会用我的吹嘴通过鼻子呼吸来跑步，我的道路工作。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that taught me really how to breathe correctly through my nose, and it translated to switching to nasal breathing when I slept.
这确实教会了我如何通过鼻子正确呼吸，这意味着我在睡觉时改用鼻呼吸。
I didn't sleep with a mouthguard in.
我睡觉时没有戴牙套。
But I think that breathing through the nose is just so important for the reasons you're describing, James Nestor's described.
但我认为，由于詹姆斯·内斯特所描述的原因，通过鼻子呼吸非常重要。
And I will share this little factoid, and then I'll shut up and nasal breathe.
我会分享这个小事实，然后我会闭嘴并用鼻呼吸。
A friend of mine who is a physician at UCSF, he told me that the methamphetamine addicts that come in have terrible teeth.
我的一位朋友是加州大学旧金山分校的医生，他告诉我，进来的甲基苯丙胺成瘾者的牙齿很糟糕。
Everyone knows this.
每个人都知道这一点。
Meth addicts have terrible teeth.
冰毒成瘾者的牙齿很糟糕。
But do you know why it is?
但你知道这是为什么吗？
He works with the School of Dentistry.
他在牙科学院工作。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I do.
我愿意。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's because they're mouth breathing.
因为他们是用嘴呼吸的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I've worked with that population before.
我以前曾与这些人一起工作过。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Meth doesn't actually deteriorate the teeth.
冰毒实际上不会使牙齿恶化。
It's the fact that they're mouth breathers.
事实上，它们是用嘴呼吸的。
And so I find this fascinating.
所以我觉得这很有趣。
And then, of course, the book "Jaws" which was published by-
当然，还有由——出版的《大白鲨》一书——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Paul Ehrlich and Sandra Kahn-
保罗·埃利希和桑德拉·卡恩——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Absolutely
绝对
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
my amazing colleagues at Stanford-
我在斯坦福大学的出色同事——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
years ago.
几年前。
And by the way, when they published that book, people said, "Oh, this is pseudoscience.
顺便说一句，当他们出版那本书时，人们说：“哦，这是伪科学。
This is crazy."
这太疯狂了。”
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"You're saying nasal breathing, epidemic of fear-mongering." Well-
“你说的是鼻呼吸，散布恐惧的流行病。”嗯-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It is
它是
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
we now know this is a real thing.
我们现在知道这是真实的事情。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's an epidemic.
这是一种流行病。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So-
所以——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
so how do you encourage kids and adults to switch from mouth breathing to nasal breathing?
那么，如何鼓励儿童和成人从用嘴呼吸转向用鼻呼吸呢？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
This is a big part of my practice.
这是我实践的一个重要部分。
So we need to understand the why, just like anything.
所以我们需要理解为什么，就像任何事情一样。
Why are you a mouth breather?
为什么你是个用嘴呼吸的人？
So humans are obligate nasal breathers.
所以人类是绝对的鼻呼吸者。
We are meant to be breathing through our nose.
我们本来就应该通过鼻子呼吸。
Unfortunately, so many of us are mouth breathers.
不幸的是，我们很多人都是用嘴呼吸的。
They estimate up to 50% of the population now breathes through their mouth.
他们估计现在有多达 50% 的人口通过嘴呼吸。
I personally think that's an underestimate with what I'm seeing at my practice.
我个人认为这低估了我在实践中所看到的情况。
So why is this?
那么这是为什么呢？
So the theory is that ancestrally we used to chew and masticate up to four hours a day.
因此，理论认为，祖先们每天咀嚼和咀嚼长达四个小时。
This act of chewing, it pushes, forces out...
这种咀嚼的行为，它推动、迫使……
It was actually what grows the face, the lateralization of the tongue, the tongue elevating.
事实上，它是面部生长、舌头侧化、舌头抬高的原因。
It would grow the jaws wide, the sinuses wide, including breastfeeding, okay?
它会让下巴变宽，鼻窦变宽，包括母乳喂养，好吗？
We now flash forward 10, 12,000 years, okay?
我们现在快进 10、12,000 年，好吗？
So we had the agricultural revolution where we went from hunter, gatherer society to agrarian.
因此，我们发生了农业革命，从狩猎采集社会转向农业社会。
Then the Industrial Revolution, we started milling and processing everything.
然后是工业革命，我们开始铣削和加工所有东西。
Everything's soft and mushy now.
现在一切都变得又软又糊。
We used to chew four hours a day.
我们以前每天咀嚼四个小时。
We now chew four minutes a day.
我们现在每天咀嚼四分钟。
So there's atrophy, essentially.
所以本质上是萎缩。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We slurp our food.
我们狼吞虎咽地吃东西。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
We slurp our food.
我们狼吞虎咽地吃东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like that movie.
就像那部电影一样。
What was that futuristic movie with the little robot?
那部关于小机器人的未来电影是什么？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
"WALL-E"?
“瓦力”？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I hated that movie.
我讨厌那部电影。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Oh, I cried during that movie.
哦，看电影的时候我哭了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I hated that movie.
我讨厌那部电影。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I was so worried that it was true, and here we are.
我非常担心这是真的，而我们就在这里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, they're just slurping their food-
是的，他们只是在狼吞虎咽地吃东西——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
lying on recliners.
躺在躺椅上。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Here we are.
我们到了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They've outsourced pretty much everything.
他们几乎把所有事情都外包了。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
So this is many generations of this happening.
所以这种情况已经发生了好几代了。
We're essentially shrinking.
我们本质上正在萎缩。
James Nestor phrases it, we're de-evolving, okay?
詹姆斯·内斯特（James Nestor）说过，我们正在退化，好吗？
So faces are shrinking, jaws are shrinking.
所以脸在缩小，下巴也在缩小。
This is why we see so much crowding in teeth.
这就是为什么我们看到牙齿如此拥挤的原因。
If you go to the Natural History Museum in New York, Washington, DC, look at the ancestral skulls.
如果你去纽约、华盛顿特区的自然历史博物馆，看看祖先的头骨。
The teeth are pristine.
牙齿是原始的。
There's no decay, and all 32 teeth, including the wisdom teeth, fit perfectly into the dental arches.
没有蛀牙，所有 32 颗牙齿，包括智齿，都完美地融入牙弓。
So that was not that long ago in our trajectory.
所以这在我们的轨迹中并不是很久以前的事。
So what has happened?
那么到底发生了什么？
It's our food.
这是我们的食物。
It's how we're chewing.
这就是我们咀嚼的方式。
It's how we're breathing, and so if this structure shrinks, the nasal volume shrinks, the sinuses shrink, the airway shrinks.
这就是我们呼吸的方式，所以如果这个结构缩小，鼻腔体积就会缩小，鼻窦就会缩小，气道就会缩小。
Our tongue has no room in our mouth anymore, so it either sticks out, tongue thrust, or it falls back, and it's obstructing us.
我们的舌头在嘴里已经没有空间了，所以它要么伸出，伸舌头，要么向后落，阻碍我们。
So there's so much sleep disordered breathing, dysregulated breathing, and sleep apnea now that's not getting diagnosed.
因此，现在有很多睡眠呼吸障碍、呼吸失调和睡眠呼吸暂停尚未得到诊断。
So if we look at children early, and they come into me, and I can see it as they walk in, they generally will have forward head posture because they're trying to open their airway, okay?
因此，如果我们尽早观察孩子，他们走进我身边，当他们走进来时我可以看到，他们通常会保持头部前倾的姿势，因为他们试图打开呼吸道，好吗？
Forward head posture.
头向前倾的姿势。
They have dark circles.
他们有黑眼圈。
That's called venous pooling.
这就是所谓的静脉池。
That's a sign of inflammation secondary to mouth breathing.
这是继发于口呼吸的炎症的迹象。
You can see more of the whites of their eyes, so it has to do with their visual plane.
你可以看到更多他们的眼白，所以这与他们的视觉平面有关。
So forward head posture, the droopy eyes from inflammation.
如此头前倾的姿势，使眼睛因发炎而下垂。
You see more of the sclera, the white of the eye.
您可以看到更多的巩膜，即眼白。
They just look congested and sick, and their mouth's open, and those kids have major airway issues, and we need to understand why.
他们看起来鼻塞、生病，嘴巴张开，这些孩子有严重的呼吸道问题，我们需要了解原因。
So it is generally either a hard tissue issue or a soft tissue issue.
所以一般来说要么是硬组织问题，要么是软组织问题。
So what would the hard tissue issues be?
那么硬组织问题是什么？
That would be the size and shape of the jaws, the size and shape of the palate, the position of the jaws.
那就是下巴的大小和形状，上颚的大小和形状，下巴的位置。
Is your jaw set back?
你的下巴向后退了吗？
Is it forward like a bulldog?
它像斗牛犬一样向前吗？
And do you have a deviated septum?
你有鼻中隔偏曲吗？
They estimate 75% of humans can have some sort of deviated septum, and people think that's ridiculous.
他们估计 75% 的人可能患有某种类型的鼻中隔偏曲，人们认为这很荒谬。
It's not just from getting in a fight and getting your nose broken.
这不仅仅是因为打架而鼻子被打断了。
So think of it this way: if your palate is narrow and I smoosh your face like this, the septum has to go somewhere, and so it can't, okay?
所以这样想吧：如果你的上颚很窄，而我像这样抚平你的脸，隔膜必须去某个地方，所以它不能，好吗？
So that's what creates the deviated septum.
这就是造成隔膜偏曲的原因。
And so if we expand a face, and this is what early functional orthodontists, and this is what I'm doing at my practice, are doing in these younger kids.
所以，如果我们扩大一张脸，这就是早期功能性正畸医生，这就是我在诊所所做的，在这些年幼的孩子身上所做的事情。
You put in a little retainer that can help expand the face, and the septum straightens, and now we can breathe better.
您放入一个可以帮助扩大脸部的小固定器，并且隔膜变直，现在我们可以更好地呼吸。
So that's hard tissue.
所以这就是硬组织。
Soft tissues could be enlarged adenoids, enlarged tonsils, oral motor dysfunction, low tongue tone, low tongue positioning, too.
软组织也可能是腺样体肥大、扁桃体肥大、口腔运动功能障碍、舌音低、舌位低。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How much plasticity is there of the sinuses?
鼻窦的可塑性有多大？
So let's say somebody has a partially or severely deviated septum, and they could get surgery, and I want to talk about some of the different surgeries.
假设某人的鼻中隔部分或严重偏曲，他们可以接受手术，我想谈谈一些不同的手术。
There's a balloon-
有一个气球——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
expansion thing that online it looks really cool.
在线扩展的东西看起来真的很酷。
I want to try this.
我想试试这个。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I really want this to happen to myself.
我真的希望这件事发生在我自己身上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, they put the balloon up there.
是的，他们把气球放在那里。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They inflate the balloon.
他们给气球充气。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And it's guided.
而且是有引导的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
They do one that's guided.
他们做的是有指导的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
That's really cool.
这真的很酷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They numb it, and then they take it out, and the this kind of thing.
他们将其麻醉，然后将其取出，诸如此类的事情。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, is actually the appropriate way to do it, both in and out through the nose.
嗯，实际上这是正确的方法，通过鼻子进出。
But if somebody makes the effort to nasal breathe, so maybe they mouth tape at night-
但如果有人努力用鼻呼吸，那么也许他们会在晚上用胶带封住——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or I'm a big fan of shifting from any mouth breathing to nasal breathing by insisting that I nasal breathe while I do any cardio, unless I'm pushing really hard, and then I need to bring mouth breathing into it.
或者我非常喜欢从口呼吸转变为鼻呼吸，坚持在做有氧运动时用鼻呼吸，除非我非常用力，然后我需要将口呼吸带入其中。
But I've noticed just because I can measure snoring through-- I sleep on an Eight Sleep, I can measure snoring that way, but even if you don't do that, there are other ways you can measure snoring with an app-
但我注意到，只是因为我可以通过以下方式测量打鼾——我睡在八号睡眠，我可以通过这种方式测量打鼾，但即使你不这样做，还有其他方法可以通过应用程序测量打鼾-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or someone can tell you you're snoring.
或者有人可以告诉您您在打鼾。
So this isn't about a product per se.
所以这与产品本身无关。
But if I force myself to nasal breathe during cardio workouts, especially kind of zone two, zone three stuff, translates to less mouth breathing and snoring in sleep.
但是，如果我在有氧运动期间强迫自己用鼻呼吸，尤其是第二区、第三区的东西，就会减少睡眠时用嘴呼吸和打鼾的次数。
So the question is, do the sinuses actually dilate, or if you have a deviated septum, do you need it surgically or somehow otherwise repaired?
所以问题是，鼻窦真的扩张了吗？或者如果您有鼻中隔偏曲，您是否需要通过手术或其他方式进行修复？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It depends on your age.
这取决于你的年龄。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So most facial development is done around the age of 10.
所以大部分面部发育是在10岁左右完成的。
So the issue I would say with traditional orthodontics, which is when you wait for all the baby teeth to fall out, and then you put braces on, you can't control the modeling of the face, the midface, the jaws.
所以我要说的传统正畸的问题是，当你等待所有乳牙脱落，然后戴上牙套时，你无法控制面部、中面部、下颌的造型。
Which is why we now are starting with functional therapies as young as three or four years old with retainers.
这就是为什么我们现在开始对带保持器的三四岁孩子进行功能治疗。
So in the middle of our palate is a suture filled with cartilage, and so with kids, it's really easy to manipulate and change facial development.
因此，我们的上颚中部有一条充满软骨的缝合线，因此对于孩子来说，操纵和改变面部发育真的很容易。
If you make the jaws wider, not only is it improving airway, but the teeth will come in straight.
如果你使下巴变宽，不仅可以改善呼吸道，而且牙齿也会变得笔直。
Now they have room.
现在他们有空间了。
The reason they come in crooked is there's not enough room for them to come in.
它们弯曲的原因是没有足够的空间让它们进来。
It's important to note the floor of the mouth's the roof-- Sorry, the roof of the mouth is the floor of the nose.
重要的是要注意嘴的底部是屋顶——抱歉，嘴的顶部是鼻子的底部。
So if you expand the palate, the sinuses will get wider.
因此，如果你扩张上颚，鼻窦就会变宽。
The septum's going to upright.
隔膜将直立。
Everything's connected.
一切都是相连的。
Now, as an adult, it's really hard to manipulate bone structure just through posturing and habit.
现在，作为一个成年人，仅仅通过姿势和习惯来控制骨骼结构真的很困难。
There are myofunctional therapists.
有肌功能治疗师。
They're the best, and they're really important in this conversation.
他们是最好的，他们在这次谈话中非常重要。
Think of them like physical therapists for breathing, teaching you to keep your lips closed, your tongue up.
把他们想象成呼吸的物理治疗师，教你保持嘴唇闭合，舌头向上。
All of this musculature is really important, toning it.
所有这些肌肉组织都非常重要，可以调节它。
If you don't use it, you lose it.
如果你不使用它，你就会失去它。
So if you're a mouth breather, your tongue will lay low.
因此，如果你用嘴呼吸，你的舌头就会放低。
Your tongue's a muscle.
你的舌头是一块肌肉。
It will get weak.
它会变得虚弱。
It will get flaccid.
它会变得松弛。
So we want to strengthen these muscles to help with lip seal and nasal breathing.
所以我们想要加强这些肌肉来帮助唇部密封和鼻呼吸。
But as an adult, if you do have a skeletal discrepancy, usually you need some sort of intervention.
但作为成年人，如果您确实存在骨骼差异，通常您需要某种干预。
You're not going to just be changing it through lip taping or how you're training or myofunctional therapy.
你不会仅仅通过唇部贴带或训练或肌功能治疗的方式来改变它。
And there are more conservative ways now besides true jaw surgery.
而除了真正的正颌手术之外，现在还有更保守的方法。
There's an appliance called the Homeoblock, which I know is what James Nestor used.
有一种叫做 Homeoblock 的设备，我知道 James Nestor 使用的就是它。
You can read about it in his book.
你可以在他的书中读到这一点。
That will actually start to change facial structure.
这实际上会开始改变面部结构。
There's less invasive treatments.
有侵入性较小的治疗方法。
There's an MSC appliance.
有一个 MSC 设备。
It's a maxillary skeletal expansion device.
这是一种上颌骨扩张装置。
It does put these little mini screws in your palate, but it will pop the suture in adults.
它确实会将这些小螺钉放入您的上颚，但它会使成人的缝合线破裂。
And this is-
这是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yikes
哎呀
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
you really would have to want this because you're struggling so much.
你真的必须想要这个，因为你太挣扎了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And people who aren't breathing well-
还有那些呼吸不顺畅的人——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
they're struggling.
他们正在挣扎。
I think it's the most important thing for health is how you're breathing and how you're sleeping.
我认为对健康最重要的是你的呼吸方式和睡眠方式。
And with children, if they're not breathing appropriately, and they're waking up a lot, which is why it would be interesting to get some sort of product on you.
对于孩子来说，如果他们呼吸不正常，而且他们经常醒来，这就是为什么在你身上使用某种产品会很有趣。
I'm just curious, do you get into deep sleep?
我只是好奇，你睡得很熟吗？
Do you get into REM sleep?
你进入快速眼动睡眠吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do.
我愿意。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I'm measuring deep sleep and REM sleep-
我正在测量深度睡眠和快速眼动睡眠 -
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
From the Eight Sleep
从八眠开始
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
through the Eight Sleeper loop-
通过八卧铺循环-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Great
太棒了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or both.
或两者兼而有之。
My deep sleep is great, provided I get to sleep by about 10:00, 10:30-
我的深度睡眠很好，只要我在 10:00、10:30 左右入睡-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because that's when I capture the deep sleep window.
因为那是我捕捉深度睡眠窗口的时间。
If I go to sleep around 11:00 or midnight-
如果我在 11:00 或午夜左右睡觉-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
For sure
当然
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I lose out on some deep sleep-
我失去了一些深度睡眠-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
even if I sleep longer.
即使我睡得更久。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And my REM sleep's really solid these days.
这些天我的快速眼动睡眠非常稳定。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I'm struck by how convincing the data are about nasal breathing improving brain function.
是的，我对鼻呼吸改善大脑功能的数据如此令人信服感到震惊。
There were a couple studies that showed that if people either mouth breathe or nasal breathe in a laboratory study, the nasal breathers have better memory recall.
有几项研究表明，在实验室研究中，如果人们用嘴呼吸或用鼻呼吸，则用鼻呼吸的人有更好的记忆力。
But those were of odors, so everyone said, "Well, okay, of course, it's of odors, and you're breathing through your nose, and so you can remember those odors." So they've now run these studies with other types of memory and brain function, and it's just very clear that you oxygenate your brain better, and you think better.
但那些都是气味，所以每个人都说：“好吧，当然，这是气味，而且你是通过鼻子呼吸的，所以你可以记住这些气味。”因此，他们现在对其他类型的记忆和大脑功能进行了这些研究，很明显，你可以更好地为大脑供氧，并且你可以更好地思考。
Your cognition's better.
你的认知能力更好了。
Your memory's better for everything, not just odors.
你对所有事情的记忆力都会更好，而不仅仅是气味。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So you get 20% more oxygen when you nasal breathe, and this is really important for children in these formative years of brain development.
因此，当您用鼻呼吸时，您会获得多 20% 的氧气，这对于处于大脑发育成长期的儿童来说非常重要。
And this is why we're seeing studies showing that children who mouth breathe have sleep-disordered breathing.
这就是为什么我们看到研究表明用嘴呼吸的孩子患有睡眠呼吸障碍。
They have behavioral issues, and many are getting diagnosed with ADHD and arguably potentially put on medications when really if we'd screened them for airway issues, potentially we could've avoided some of this.
他们有行为问题，许多人被诊断出患有多动症，并且可以说可能需要接受药物治疗，而实际上，如果我们对他们进行气道问题筛查，我们可能可以避免其中的一些问题。
And it also has to do, we're not getting into deep sleep.
这也与我们没有进入深度睡眠有关。
The glymphatic system's not kicking in.
类淋巴系统没有启动。
Hormone function's not kicking in, so a lot of these children, growth hormone is impaired.
激素功能没有发挥作用，因此很多儿童的生长激素受到损害。
Antidiuretic hormone is impaired if they're not getting into deep restorative sleep, so that is why we see bedwetting.
如果他们没有进入深度恢复性睡眠，抗利尿激素就会受损，这就是我们看到尿床的原因。
Some signs to look for in your partner or your children is tossing and turning, clenching, grinding, snoring, or noisy breathing, sleeping in really odd positions like craning the neck because they're trying to open their airway, spinning around the bed.
在你的伴侣或孩子身上要注意的一些迹象包括翻来覆去、咬紧牙关、磨牙、打鼾或呼吸吵闹、以非常奇怪的姿势睡觉，比如因为试图打开呼吸道而伸长脖子、在床上旋转。
The child's legs are in and the body's out of the bed.
孩子的腿在床上，身体在床上。
The bedsheets are everywhere.
床单到处都是。
And then certainly waking up unrested, and then noticing behavioral issues, too.
然后醒来时肯定会感到不安，然后也注意到行为问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, all you have to do to convince the male half of the audience to-
好吧，你所要做的就是说服一半的男性观众——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
focus more on nasal breathing and to not use mouthwashes is to tell them that being a mouth breather will give them sexual dysfunction.
更多地关注鼻呼吸而不使用漱口水是告诉他们用嘴呼吸会导致性功能障碍。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or will predispose them to sexual dysfunction, and they'll start working on their nasal breathing.
或者会使他们容易出现性功能障碍，他们会开始用鼻呼吸。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Because of nitric oxide.
因为一氧化氮。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because of nitric oxide.
因为一氧化氮。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So the paranasal sinuses is what will help produce nitric oxide too.
因此，鼻旁窦也有助于产生一氧化氮。
So if you're breathing through your mouth, not your nose, you're not getting enough nitric oxide, which is very important in sexual health.
因此，如果您通过嘴而不是鼻子呼吸，您就无法获得足够的一氧化氮，而一氧化氮对于性健康非常重要。
But also, we know men who have gum disease are 2.85 times more likely to have erectile dysfunction as well.
而且，我们还知道患有牙龈疾病的男性出现勃起功能障碍的可能性高出 2.85 倍。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So no bleeding gums.
所以牙龈不会出血。
We do not want inflamed, bleeding gums.
我们不想要牙龈发炎、出血。
Flossing is something we haven't touched upon yet, but it's incredibly important, not only for cavity prevention, but gum health.
使用牙线是我们尚未触及的东西，但它非常重要，不仅对于预防蛀牙，而且对于牙龈健康。
And pink in the sink, any amount of bleeding is a sign of inflammation, and it doesn't just stay in the body.
而水槽里呈粉红色，任何量的出血都是炎症的迹象，而且它不仅仅停留在体内。
It can impact the entire system.
它会影响整个系统。
So, please take your gum health seriously, if for nothing else than for your sexual health.
因此，请认真对待您的牙龈健康，哪怕只是为了您的性健康。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great message.
很棒的消息。
So to shift over to nasal breathing, if somebody's really struggling with this, are you a fan of mouth taping?
因此，要转向鼻呼吸，如果有人真的为此苦苦挣扎，你喜欢用嘴胶带吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
You want to make sure you can do so safely.
您要确保可以安全地进行此操作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So with kids, I always suggest they get screened by an airway-focused dentist, or potentially an otolaryngologist or an ENT.
因此，对于孩子，我总是建议他们由专注于气道的牙医、或可能的耳鼻喉科医生或耳鼻喉科医生进行筛查。
For adults, there is a test that you can do.
对于成年人，您可以进行一项测试。
It's the three-minute test.
这是三分钟测试。
Can you breathe through your nose without panicking or feeling sympathetically challenged for three minutes?
你能用鼻子呼吸三分钟而不惊慌或感觉同情心受到挑战吗？
So you can either put water in your mouth, put a piece of paper, tape your lips, and literally time yourself.
所以你可以把水放进嘴里，放一张纸，用胶带粘住嘴唇，然后给自己计时。
And if you can breathe through your nose successfully, then you, in theory, can safely lip tape.
如果您可以成功地通过鼻子呼吸，那么理论上您就可以安全地使用唇带。
There are different tapes that you can do that are open in the middle, so you can still off-gas, or it feels less invasive.
您可以使用中间打开的不同胶带，这样您仍然可以排出气体，或者感觉侵入性较小。
And what I suggest if people are interested in it is just start five minutes while you're chopping vegetables for dinner, and then move up to 30 minutes while you're watching a show, and then watch a whole movie for two hours.
如果人们对此感兴趣，我的建议是，在你切晚餐蔬菜时开始花 5 分钟，然后在看节目时花 30 分钟，然后花两个小时看整部电影。
And then if you've been able to tape that long, you can do so at night as well.
如果您能够录制那么长的时间，那么您也可以在晚上进行。
I will tell you, it is one of the top things that I have done to improve my health, and I do see it with my wearables and my sleep data.
我会告诉你，这是我为改善健康所做的最重要的事情之一，我确实通过我的可穿戴设备和睡眠数据看到了这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Recently, I had the privilege of giving a talk at Stanford with Renée Fleming, who's one of the world's greatest opera singers alive today.
最近，我有幸在斯坦福大学与蕾妮·弗莱明（Renée Fleming）发表演讲，她是当今世界上最伟大的歌剧演唱家之一。
And I said, "Well, what are some things that you do for your breathing?"
我说：“那么，你会做哪些事情来调整呼吸呢？”
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I end up talking a lot for the podcast.
因为我最终在播客中说了很多话。
And she gave me some lung and diaphragm-strengthening exercises.
她给了我一些肺部和膈肌强化练习。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But then the one that she suggested for emphasizing nasal breathing, because there's a lot of nasal breathing that's done quickly and subtly in order to maintain air pressure in the lungs, and for her craft, which I know very little about.
但她建议强调鼻呼吸，因为为了维持肺部气压，需要快速而巧妙地进行大量鼻呼吸，而对于她的技巧，我对此知之甚少。
But is instead of doing weight training for the neck, this is kind of a fun one.
但这并不是对颈部进行重量训练，而是一种有趣的训练。
It doesn't make the neck big, so people who don't want a larger neck will appreciate that.
它不会使脖子变大，所以不想要更大脖子的人会喜欢这一点。
But to exercise the internal muscles of the neck, and the way you do this is something called kiss the sky.
但是要锻炼颈部的内部肌肉，而这样做的方式就叫亲吻天空。
The boxers will actually know this, the old-school boxers.
拳击手实际上会知道这一点，老派拳击手。
It looks ridiculous, but I'll do it because I look ridiculous on this podcast all the time intentionally.
这看起来很荒谬，但我会这么做，因为我故意在这个播客上看起来很荒谬。
So you look up at the sky and you pucker like you were a pufferfish-
于是你抬头仰望天空，皱起眉头，就像一条河豚——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Oh
哦
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for 15 seconds per side.
每边 15 秒。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Interesting.
有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And she said it builds the strength and the neural control over the internal muscles of the neck.
她说它可以增强颈部内部肌肉的力量和神经控制。
So again, no widening or thickening of the neck, but on the inside, and it makes it much easier to take deep breaths through your nose.
再说一遍，颈部没有变宽或变厚，而是在内部，这使得通过鼻子深呼吸变得更容易。
It probably increases the amount of resistance-
它可能会增加阻力-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
so that you can fill your lungs more easily.
这样您就可以更轻松地填充肺部。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I've been doing a little bit of kiss the sky, and it looks completely ridiculous.
所以我做了一点亲吻天空的动作，这看起来完全荒谬。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's kind of a yoga move, too.
这也是一种瑜伽动作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
And you just really lip smack as if you were going to kiss the sky from side to side, 15 seconds per side a couple times per day-
你真的会咂嘴，就好像你要从一边到另一边亲吻天空一样，每边 15 秒，每天几次——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Love it
喜欢它
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or just whenever you remember it.
或者只要你记得它。
And her voice is amazing, her speaking voice-
她的声音很棒，她说话的声音——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and her posture and everything.
还有她的姿势和一切。
So, I borrowed that one from her.
于是，我就向她借了那一张。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
You can do a lot to improve your airway health through breathing rehabilitation.
通过呼吸康复，您可以做很多事情来改善气道健康。
So I think that is a big part that's missing in these conversations with airway health.
所以我认为，在这些与气道健康的对话中，这是缺失的一个重要部分。
We talk about, well, you need to see the airway-trained dentist.
我们谈论的是，好吧，你需要去看接受过气道培训的牙医。
You need to see the myofunctional therapist, the orthodontist, the ENT.
您需要去看肌功能治疗师、正牙医生、耳鼻喉科医生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, that's a lot.
是的，很多。
Just the scheduling of that alone-
仅此而已的安排-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's-
这是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
makes me want to take a nap.
让我想小睡一下。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
But it is.
但确实如此。
It's a lot to unpack airway issues.
解决气道问题有很多工作。
If parents are out there, there's two books, three, I'd recommend if you're very interested in this, since it impacts so many people.
如果父母在那里，有两本书，三本书，如果你对此非常感兴趣，我会推荐，因为它影响了很多人。
Certainly "Breath" by James Nestor, "Jaws," as you mentioned, by Sander Kahn, and "Sleep Wrecked Kids" by Sharon Moore, if you're a parent.
当然，如果你是父母的话，詹姆斯·内斯特的《呼吸》、桑德·卡恩的《大白鲨》和莎朗·摩尔的《睡眠破坏儿童》都是你提到的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's the title again?
标题又是什么？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
"Sleep Wrecked Kids."
“睡眠不足的孩子。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sleep Wrecked.
睡眠被破坏了。
W-R-
写-写-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
E-C-K.
E-C-K。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
By-
由-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
Sharon Moore.
莎朗·摩尔。
So it will just help you screen and understand why we're worried about these things more.
因此，它只会帮助您筛选并理解为什么我们更担心这些事情。
But yeah, we can't overemphasize airway health, especially in our children.
但是，我们不能过分强调呼吸道健康，尤其是我们孩子的呼吸道健康。
And catching it early and intervening early is really important.
尽早发现并尽早干预非常重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
In trying to maintain airway health and healthy saliva, and now I'm obsessed with saliva.
在努力保持呼吸道健康和健康的唾液中，现在我对唾液很着迷。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I was like, cool, it's got all this stuff in it.
我当时想，太酷了，里面有所有这些东西。
I was thinking, it's just like if we know blood has all these goodies in it, we test blood.
我在想，就像如果我们知道血液中含有所有这些好处，我们就会测试血液一样。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We know skin microbiome.
我们了解皮肤微生物组。
We know that women go to an OBGYN.
我们知道女性会去看妇产科。
They get Pap smears.
他们接受巴氏涂片检查。
We know if you've ever raised a kid or changed diapers, you can tell a lot about somebody's health by the fluids-
我们知道，如果您养育过孩子或换过尿布，您可以通过体液了解某人的健康状况 -
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that they emit and that they have within them.
它们散发出的以及它们内在的东西。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to place saliva on the list of critical things to pay attention to.
我想把唾液列入需要注意的重要事项清单中。
But chewing gum, is this good for our breathing and for our saliva or not?
但是嚼口香糖，这对我们的呼吸和唾液有好处吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm not a big gum chewer.
我不是一个嚼口香糖的人。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I'm not either.
我也不是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But is it good, bad, neutral?
但它是好的、坏的还是中性的？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I think its time and place can be very beneficial.
我认为它的时间和地点是非常有益的。
So where I like it is if-- Because I will say, "Hey, parents, you really need to avoid crackers and chips and granola bars." And they say, "What do I feed my kid?" So if we've missed the window of how to introduce food to children or they just favor those type of foods, what's a good strategy if you're out on the go to minimize decay risk and increase salivary health?
所以我喜欢的是如果——因为我会说，“嘿，父母们，你们真的需要避免吃饼干、薯条和格兰诺拉麦片棒。”他们说：“我给我的孩子吃什么？”因此，如果我们错过了如何向儿童介绍食物的窗口期，或者他们只是喜欢这些类型的食物，那么当您外出时，有什么好的策略可以最大限度地减少腐烂风险并改善唾液健康呢？
Chew some gum, particularly xylitol gum, because xylitol will inhibit bacterial proliferation- It will reduce Strep mutans, which is the bacteria that causes cavities.
咀嚼一些口香糖，特别是木糖醇口香糖，因为木糖醇会抑制细菌增殖 - 它会减少变形链球菌，这是引起蛀牙的细菌。
Big fan of xylitol.
木糖醇的忠实粉丝。
So offering a piece of xylitol gum after an exposure to some of these snack foods, these fermentable carbohydrates, is great.
因此，在接触这些零食、这些可发酵碳水化合物后，提供一块木糖醇口香糖是很好的。
It will loosen the food.
它会使食物变松。
It will increase salivary health.
它将增强唾液健康。
Some people like it to strengthen, mastic gum, I always get asked about that.
有些人喜欢用它来强化乳香，我总是被问到这个问题。
You can overdo it.
你可以做得太过分。
I worry about temporomandibular dysfunction.
我担心颞下颌功能障碍。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I had a bad experience with mastic gum.
我对乳香胶的经历很糟糕。
I was buying it.
我正在买它。
I love the kind of primordial aspect of it.
我喜欢它的原始方面。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like a tree sap that you chew on.
它就像你咀嚼的树汁。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It comes in this beautiful paper package and no plastics or anything.
它采用漂亮的纸质包装，不含塑料或任何东西。
You get it going in there, and you feel like you're really working it the same way my bulldog Costello would work.
当你把它放在那里时，你会觉得你真的在像我的斗牛犬科斯特洛一样工作。
He used to teeth on bricks and he was just...
他习惯用牙齿咬砖头，他只是……
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you feel great, and then all of a sudden you'd go
你感觉很好，然后突然你就走了
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and your jaw would kind of stick.
你的下巴会有点粘住。
And then later, you're like-
然后后来，你就像——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
"Whoa, my jaw really hurts." And-
“哎呀，我的下巴好痛啊。”还有——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Or you feel something pop up in your joint
或者您感觉关节中有东西弹出
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
feel something pop.
感觉有些流行。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And yeah, it'll give you that, these days, the young influencers are so obsessed by this, it'll give you a little bit of a golf ball-
是的，它会让你知道，现在，年轻的影响者对此如此着迷，它会给你一点高尔夫球——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
hypertrophy of your jaw.
下巴肥大。
That's not why I was doing it, but, boy, does it make your jaw feel sore.
这不是我这么做的原因，但是，孩子，这会让你的下巴感到酸痛吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I'm not a big fan.
我不是它的忠实粉丝。
I like to just explain it, think of a baseball pitcher.
我喜欢简单地解释一下，想想棒球投手。
I mean, how many of them go on the disabled list because they're overusing their shoulder?
我的意思是，他们中有多少人因为过度使用肩膀而被列入残疾人名单？
It's a similar joint rotation.
这是类似的关节旋转。
We're only meant to chew really for sustenance.
我们咀嚼只是为了维持生计。
That's how we were evolved.
我们就是这样进化的。
So if you're chewing gum all day, it's very likely wearing down the cartilage in your joint.
因此，如果您整天嚼口香糖，很可能会磨损关节软骨。
So I'm not a huge fan of it.
所以我不太喜欢它。
I just personally don't love gum chewing, but I think time and place, too.
我个人不喜欢嚼口香糖，但我认为时间和地点也是如此。
So especially from a cavity standpoint or hydration, increasing salivary flow.
因此，特别是从蛀牙或水合作用的角度来看，增加唾液流量。
But I would just chew it for a couple of minutes, throw it out.
但我只会咀嚼几分钟，然后把它扔掉。
You don't need to be chewing it for an extended period of time.
您不需要长时间咀嚼它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But chewing food is good.
但咀嚼食物是有好处的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Thank you.
谢谢。
So the issue, as we mentioned is, we are slurping and smushing our food.
所以，正如我们提到的，问题是，我们正在吸食和弄碎食物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, gross.
哦，太恶心了。
To me, almond butter has never existed in nature.
对我来说，杏仁黄油在自然界中从未存在过。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The idea that you would take, almonds are so delicious, right?
你会认为杏仁太好吃了，对吧？
But that you would grind them up and put them into a paste.
但你会把它们磨碎并把它们变成糊状。
To me, the texture is so aversive.
对我来说，质地是如此令人厌恶。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Well, you do that in your mouth.
好吧，你在嘴里这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, I know.
哦，我知道。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
You're supposed to do that through chewing.
你应该通过咀嚼来做到这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just the fact of it, peanut butter, to me these things make no sense whatsoever.
事实上，花生酱，对我来说这些东西毫无意义。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's yogurts and apple sauces and fruit snacks and-
这是酸奶、苹果酱和水果零食，还有——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Baby food
婴儿食品
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
baby food.
婴儿食品。
Exactly.
确切地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or it's for animals and people without teeth.
或者是针对没有牙齿的动物和人。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
So I'm not advocating one camp or the other.
所以我并不提倡其中任何一个阵营。
There can be a mix, but there's blended food that's offered, or you can do more of a baby-led weaning, which is eating more real foods.
可以是混合食物，但可以提供混合食物，或者你可以做更多由婴儿主导的断奶，即吃更多真正的食物。
Obviously, please be smart about this.
显然，请对此保持明智。
Don't give choking hazards to your children.
不要给您的孩子带来窒息危险。
There's a lot of information out there that you can look on how to safely prepare food for your child, but chewing is incredibly important for facial development.
您可以查看很多有关如何安全地为孩子准备食物的信息，但咀嚼对于面部发育非常重要。
And-
还有——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I was thinking for adults.
嗯，我是为成年人考虑的。
I was kind of making fun-
我有点开玩笑——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of the fact that adults are eating like kids.
事实上，成年人吃得像孩子一样。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Well.
好吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're slurping their food and then like it's-
他们狼吞虎咽地吃着食物，然后就像是——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Chicken nuggets and french fries and yeah, we need to chew.
鸡块和炸薯条，是的，我们需要咀嚼。
When really asked what's gone on with the airway, why does everyone, why are faces shrinking?
当真正问到气道出了什么问题时，为什么每个人、为什么脸都萎缩了？
It's chewing.
它正在咀嚼。
We've lost chewing.
我们已经失去了咀嚼能力。
And then arguably breastfeeding, too.
然后也可以说是母乳喂养。
We've moved away from exclusively breastfeeding, too.
我们也已经摆脱了纯母乳喂养。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What are the numbers on that?
上面的数字是多少？
I don't know the numbers on that.
我不知道那上面的数字。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
How many people bro-
多少人啊兄弟
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I-
我-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I don't know either.
我也不知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No.
不。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I don't know, but it's certainly down.
我不知道，但肯定是下降了。
I think it's making a resurgence, and a lot of people, though, are doing a blend.
我认为它正在复苏，而且很多人正在混合使用。
We do what we need to do.
我们做我们需要做的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I mean, it's a lot of women are working, and so it's important to know if you're not able to breastfeed or it doesn't resonate with you or you are working and having to pump, that there are fixes, okay?
我的意思是，很多女性都在工作，所以重要的是要知道如果您无法母乳喂养，或者母乳喂养与您不符，或者您正在工作并且必须吸奶，那么有解决办法，好吗？
So this isn't dire, but just working with someone to catch these issues early.
所以这并不可怕，只是与某人合作尽早发现这些问题。
And also, unfortunately, even if we're doing all the things correctly, introducing hard foods, our child's chewing and they're nasal breathing and we're breastfeeding, it's hard to combat generations and generations of disevolution, essentially.
而且，不幸的是，即使我们正确地做所有事情，引入硬质食物，我们的孩子咀嚼，他们用鼻呼吸，我们正在母乳喂养，本质上也很难对抗一代又一代的退化。
So a lot of humans are needing intervention now.
所以现在很多人都需要干预。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
Last year, I became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
去年，在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我成为了 Function 成员。
Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health.
Function 提供 100 多项高级实验室测试，为您提供整个身体健康状况的关键快照。
This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more.
此快照为您提供有关心脏健康、激素健康、免疫功能、营养水平等方面的见解。
They've also recently added tests for toxins, such as BPA exposure from harmful plastics, and tests for PFAS, or forever chemicals.
他们最近还增加了毒素测试，例如有害塑料中的 BPA 暴露，以及 PFAS 或永久化学物质的测试。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas.
Function 不仅提供对您的身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标记物的测试，而且还分析这些结果并提供相关领域专家的顶级医生的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量升高。
Function not only helped me detect that but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, I'd been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification.
功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，还提供了如何最好地降低汞含量的见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼消费，我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力多吃绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒。
And I should say, by taking a second Function test, that approach worked.
我应该说，通过进行第二次功能测试，这种方法奏效了。
Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important.
全面的血液检测至关重要。
There are so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test.
有很多与您的心理和身体健康相关的事情只能通过血液检查来检测。
The problem is blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated.
问题是血液检测一直非常昂贵且复杂。
In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost.
相比之下，Function 的简单性和成本水平给我留下了深刻的印象。
It is very affordable.
这是非常实惠的。
As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
因此，我决定加入他们的科学顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Function，可以访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people.
目前，Function 的等候名单已超过 250,000 人。
But they're offering early access to Huberman Podcast listeners.
但他们正在为 Huberman 播客听众提供早期访问服务。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
Earlier you mentioned ...
之前你提到过...
the many different systems and diseases of the body that the oral microbiome has been directly linked to.
口腔微生物组与身体的许多不同系统和疾病直接相关。
I would say in science and medicine, there are direct effects, like this mediates that, and then there are indirect effects.
我想说，在科学和医学中，有直接的影响，比如这样的中介，然后还有间接的影响。
Like if a fire alarm goes off in the middle of the night, your sleep isn't good, but fire alarms don't regulate sleep.
就像火警警报器在半夜响起一样，你的睡眠质量会不好，但火警警报器并不能调节睡眠。
They just can modulate your sleep.
它们只是可以调节您的睡眠。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But my understanding, and I'm not deep in this literature, but my understanding is that we now have fairly conclusive evidence that certain bacteria from the mouth make its way to the brain or heart or other tissues and directly increase either the occurrence or the susceptibility of dementia, cardiovascular disease.
但我的理解，我对这方面的文献并不深入，但我的理解是，我们现在有相当确凿的证据表明，口腔中的某些细菌会进入大脑、心脏或其他组织，并直接增加痴呆症、心血管疾病的发生或易感性。
That this isn't just a, oh, you broke your ankle, so you move less.
这不仅仅是，哦，你扭断了脚踝，所以你活动得更少。
You move less, your heart gets less healthy.
你运动得越少，你的心脏就越不健康。
Your heart gets less healthy, your brain gets less healthy.
你的心脏变得不健康，你的大脑变得不健康。
This is the kind of point I'm trying to make.
这就是我想要表达的观点。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But that the bacteria in our mouth, bad bacteria, can cause real problems for the brain and heart.
但我们口腔中的细菌，即有害细菌，可能会给大脑和心脏带来真正的问题。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes, and many other systems too.
是的，还有许多其他系统。
So much research.
这么多的研究。
So they're finding 57 diseases are linked back to oral dysbiosis or oral pathogens, which is quite a lot.
因此，他们发现 57 种疾病与口腔生态失调或口腔病原体有关，数量相当多。
And different species can affect different parts of the body.
而且不同的物种会影响身体的不同部位。
So what does this all come down to?
那么这一切到底是怎么回事呢？
It comes down to gum disease.
归根结底是牙龈疾病。
So it's important to note about 80% of the global population suffers from some sort of gum disease.
因此，值得注意的是，全球约 80% 的人口患有某种牙龈疾病。
That's huge.
那是巨大的。
And about 10% of the population will have severe periodontal disease, which is chronic bone loss, tissue loss, and this is where we get tooth loss, too.
大约10%的人会患有严重的牙周病，即慢性骨质流失、组织流失，这也是我们牙齿脱落的原因。
So it's sort of a continuum, but these all have one thing in common.
所以这是一个连续体，但这些都有一个共同点。
It's the type of bacterial species that live in our mouths and when they get out of balance.
这是生活在我们口腔中的细菌种类，当它们失去平衡时。
So there's something called the red complex.
所以有一种叫做红色情结的东西。
These are the five bacteria that most influence gum disease and dysbiosis that can affect the heart and other organ systems.
这些是对牙龈疾病和生态失调影响最大的五种细菌，进而影响心脏和其他器官系统。
The big contenders, P.
最大的竞争者，P.
gingivalis, F.
牙龈利斯，F.
nucleatum, T.
核细胞，T.
denticola, there's AA, and then Strep mutans too can affect the heart as well.
牙垢、AA，还有变形链球菌也会影响心脏。
But why do these bugs, how do they get where these other organ systems are, and what are they doing?
但是为什么这些虫子会出现，它们如何到达其他器官系统所在的位置，以及它们在做什么？
So I like to term this leaky gums.
所以我喜欢称之为“牙龈漏水”。
So we've all heard leaky guts.
所以我们都听说过“泄漏的胆量”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So let's say we're just in dysbiosis and probably because maybe our oral hygiene isn't the best as well as some other things, so we're not flossing, let's say, and our gums bleed.
假设我们只是处于生态失调状态，可能是因为我们的口腔卫生和其他一些事情都不是最好的，所以我们没有使用牙线，比如说，我们的牙龈出血了。
Okay?
好的？
That's a sign of inflammation, but you now have created a vector, an opening in the skin, in the mucosa, where bacteria can get into the circulatory system, catch a free ride, and end up in places they shouldn't be.
这是炎症的迹象，但你现在已经创造了一个载体，在皮肤、粘膜上有一个开口，细菌可以从这里进入循环系统，搭便车，最终到达不应该去的地方。
And that creates an immune response, so an inflammation.
这会产生免疫反应，从而产生炎症。
Okay?
好的？
And then also these bacteria release endotoxins.
然后这些细菌也会释放内毒素。
Okay?
好的？
They can create cytokine storms, all kinds of things.
它们可以引发细胞因子风暴，各种各样的事情。
So the body doesn't like these bacteria to end up where they shouldn't.
因此，身体不希望这些细菌出现在不该出现的地方。
So heart disease, for example, if you have gum disease, you're twice as likely, two times as likely, to have cardiovascular issues.
所以心脏病，比如说，如果你有牙龈疾病，你患心血管问题的可能性就会增加一倍，两倍。
If you have gum disease, you're three times more likely to have stroke.
如果您患有牙龈疾病，那么您患中风的可能性会增加三倍。
A lot of this is correlative, not quite causal yet, but some of these are looking to have more influence than others, and there's more research that's needed.
其中很多都是相关的，尚不完全是因果关系，但其中一些希望比其他因素产生更大的影响，并且需要更多的研究。
Fertility's a big one that I like to speak about.
生育力是我喜欢谈论的一件大事。
So women who have gum disease can take two months longer to get pregnant and to conceive.
因此，患有牙龈疾病的女性可能需要多两个月的时间才能怀孕。
And there are studies that show in couples that can't conceive, that 90% of the men show some sign of gum disease, and once they go in and get it treated, then their fertility, conception improves by 70%.
有研究表明，在无法怀孕的夫妇中，90%的男性都表现出某种牙龈疾病的迹象，一旦他们接受治疗，他们的生育能力和受孕能力就会提高70%。
That's significant.
这很重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And it's not only gum disease, but just any oral infection.
这不仅是牙龈疾病，还包括任何口腔感染。
P.
P。
gingivalis is being linked to Alzheimer's and dementia.
牙龈卟啉单胞菌与阿尔茨海默病和痴呆症有关。
These bacteria end up in the brain.
这些细菌最终进入大脑。
They cross the blood-brain barrier, and they create amyloid plaques and inflammation in the brain.
它们穿过血脑屏障，在大脑中产生淀粉样斑块和炎症。
And so there have been studies, many studies now, one big one was out of Harvard, where they sampled the cerebral spinal fluid in the brains and saw that in these plaques, they had P.
因此，已经有很多研究，其中一项重要的研究来自哈佛大学，他们对大脑中的脑脊液进行了采样，发现在这些斑块中，存在着疟原虫。
gingivalis of almost 100% of the patients.
几乎100%的患者都有牙龈炎。
And when they tested them against other patients who had passed away without dementia or Alzheimer's, they didn't see any P.
当他们将它们与其他未患痴呆症或阿尔茨海默氏症的患者进行测试时，他们没有发现任何疟原虫。
gingivalis.
牙龈。
So there's a lot of association and links right now that we need more research on.
因此，现在有很多关联和联系，我们需要进行更多研究。
The other to be aware of is cancer, and this is why I love people to consider oral microbiome testing.
另一个需要注意的是癌症，这就是为什么我喜欢人们考虑口腔微生物组测试。
I personally have a friend who we tested her oral microbiome, and she was through the roof with F.
我个人有一个朋友，我们测试了她的口腔微生物组，她和 F 一起兴奋不已。
nucleatum.
有核细胞。
Pretty asymptomatic otherwise, but F.
其他方面几乎没有症状，但 F.
nucleatum is linked to increased risk of pancreatic cancer, breast cancer, and colorectal cancer.
nucleatum 与胰腺癌、乳腺癌和结直肠癌的风险增加有关。
We swallow 2,000 times a day, and we know some of these bugs, these bacteria, they can live through the stomach acid and make their way down into the gut.
我们每天吞咽 2,000 次，我们知道其中一些细菌、细菌可以在胃酸中存活并进入肠道。
So I-
所以我-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Pancreatic cancer is...
胰腺癌是...
Sorry to interrupt.
抱歉打扰。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I must say, I've had a couple friends die of pancreatic cancer, and while I wouldn't want any cancer, that's the one that I really wouldn't want.
我必须说，我有几个朋友死于胰腺癌，虽然我不想要任何癌症，但那是我真的不想要的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I have-
我有-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because so many of them are deadly.
因为其中很多都是致命的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I have someone really close to me dealing with it right now.
我现在有一个非常亲近的人在处理这件事。
He actually just had his pancreas removed prophylactically because it was pre-cancerous.
事实上，他刚刚预防性地切除了胰腺，因为它处于癌前期状态。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Did the Whipple procedure?
做了 Whipple 手术吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And so he's healing.
所以他正在康复。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, if they catch it early enough, it goes anterior to posterior.
是的，如果他们足够早地发现它，它就会从前到后。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if you catch it early enough, they can lop off the anterior portion, the Whipple procedure as it's called.
如果你发现得足够早，他们就可以切除前部，即所谓的惠普尔手术。
But even a colleague of mine, a brilliant bioengineer, a few years ago who had the Whipple done and he was progressing well, and then he passed away about a year and a half ago.
但即使是我的一位同事，一位出色的生物工程师，几年前也做过惠普尔手术，进展顺利，然后他在大约一年半前去世了。
Yeah, pancreatic cancer is-
是的，胰腺癌是——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Don't want it
不想要它
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
joke.
笑话。
And-
还有——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So if you could just test your spit.
所以如果你能测试一下你的口水。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's a simple test.
这是一个简单的测试。
And I can give some of the tests that I like in the show notes, but you just spit into this little vial and mail it off, and then they send back your results with you.
我可以在演出笔记中提供一些我喜欢的测试，但你只需吐到这个小瓶中并将其邮寄出去，然后他们就会将你的结果发回给你。
That's pretty amazing.
这真是太神奇了。
You do need to find a dentist who can then guide you, what do you do with this information?
您确实需要找到一位可以指导您的牙医，您如何处理这些信息？
A lot of these pathogens, they do need antibiotics.
很多这些病原体确实需要抗生素。
They're very virulent.
它们的毒性很强。
They're spirochetes, so they're corkscrew shaped, and they can just impregnate and wedge into tissue.
它们是螺旋体，因此呈螺旋状，可以浸渍并楔入组织中。
And so sometimes we really do need to be pretty heavy-hitting with how we treat them, so antibiotics.
因此，有时我们确实需要对治疗方式采取非常严厉的措施，比如抗生素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What kind of antibiotics are used to treat these things?
什么样的抗生素可以用来治疗这些疾病？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's usually an amoxicillin type of blend that they'll use.
他们通常使用阿莫西林类型的混合物。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, radical idea that's going to get me in trouble with my more natural health audience, but I speak to those that are more-
好吧，激进的想法会让我在更自然的健康受众中遇到麻烦，但我会和那些更-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Everyone
大家
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
pharmaceutical, more nothing, don't take anything.
药品，更没什么，什么也不要吃。
What is the argument against once every three years as a healthy adult doing a round of antibiotics to kill off unhealthy bacteria, replenishing the microbiome in various tissues?
作为一个健康的成年人，每三年使用一轮抗生素来杀死不健康的细菌，补充各种组织中的微生物群，有什么理由反对呢？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Just preventatively?
只是预防性的吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, just preventative, like kill off what might be living in the mouth, might kill off what might be living in the prostate.
是的，只是预防性的，比如杀死可能生活在口腔中的生物，可能会杀死可能生活在前列腺中的生物。
I learned recently that the prostate doesn't have the same sort of immune system protection.
我最近了解到前列腺没有同样的免疫系统保护。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so a lot of men, while they don't have UTIs, they have a prostatitis, and they basically just need to do a 21-day or 31-day round of antibiotics.
因此，很多男性虽然没有尿路感染，但患有前列腺炎，基本上只需要进行 21 天或 31 天的抗生素治疗。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And everyone will be like, "Oh, you're-
每个人都会说，“哦，你——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah, yeah
是啊是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you're spreading MRSA with that or something."
你正在用那个东西传播 MRSA。”
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, but it can protect against a number of different cancers related to the prostate and things like that.
不，但它可以预防多种与前列腺相关的不同癌症等。
Why don't we do this as a regular practice?
我们为什么不将其作为常规练习呢？
Like every three years or so, you hit the system hard for about a week, kill off a bunch of bad stuff and a bunch of good stuff, and then replenish the good stuff.
就像每隔三年左右，你就会对系统进行大约一周的重击，杀死一堆坏东西和一堆好东西，然后补充好东西。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It's a good question.
这是一个好问题。
I think it's harder to repopulate the gut and the oral microbiome than one might think.
我认为重新填充肠道和口腔微生物组比人们想象的要困难。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I like a less is more approach.
我喜欢少即是多的方法。
I think there's better ways to kill off bad things, like ozone therapy is being used a lot.
我认为有更好的方法来消灭坏东西，比如臭氧疗法正在被广泛使用。
I use ozone in my office.
我在办公室使用臭氧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Tell me more about ozone.
告诉我更多有关臭氧的信息。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So ozone, it's O3.
所以臭氧，就是O3。
Okay, so it's a very unstable molecule.
好吧，它是一个非常不稳定的分子。
I use it in gas form or water.
我以气体或水的形式使用它。
You can use it as an oil.
您可以将其用作油。
It's carried usually in olive oil or hemp oil or flax oil.
它通常以橄榄油、大麻油或亚麻油的形式存在。
And so it's antimicrobial, it's antiviral, it's antifungal.
所以它具有抗菌、抗病毒、抗真菌的作用。
And so what I'd use it for is to treat gum disease, and periodontal pathogens, but then also under fillings or under sealants or if I'm doing a pulpotomy or kind of a root canal procedure.
因此，我会用它来治疗牙龈疾病和牙周病原体，但也可用于填充物或密封剂下，或者如果我正在进行牙髓切断术或某种根管手术。
Because otherwise we're just blasting water everywhere.
因为否则我们只是到处喷水。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wait, so is this oil pulling?
等等，这是抽油吗？
This is the basis of-
这是基础——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I use it as a gas.
我用它作为气体。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It comes out of a machine, and I use it in a wand as a gas.
它来自机器，我用它作为气体在魔杖中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Very localized.
非常本土化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I got to try this.
我得试试这个。
But what's the deal with people swishing olive oil and oil pulling?
但是人们喝橄榄油和拔油有什么关系呢？
I know this is big in some of the...
我知道这在某些方面很重要...
I don't even know what to call it anymore.
我什至不知道该叫它什么了。
What used to be alternative, and it's now mainstream.
曾经是另类的东西，现在已经成为主流。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It sounds like music in the '90s, right?
听起来像是 90 年代的音乐，对吧？
Indie medicine is now mainstream.
独立医学现已成为主流。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They sold out, right?
他们卖完了，对吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm just joking, folks, but not really.
我只是开玩笑，伙计们，但不是真的。
There's so many mimics between the health-
健康之间有很多相似之处——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
arena and kind of music and art.
竞技场以及音乐和艺术的种类。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What used to be niche becomes trendy-
曾经的小众变成了流行——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then becomes mainstream.
然后成为主流。
Everyone's cool with it now.
现在每个人都对此很满意。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yoga breathwork, resistance training used to be niche.
瑜伽呼吸、阻力训练曾经是小众的。
Swishing olive oil, spitting it out.
漱口橄榄油，吐掉。
Acupuncturists love this.
针灸师喜欢这个。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Alternative medicine types like this.
像这样的替代医学类型。
Is there any truth to it, or does it relate to ozone?
这是否属实，或者与臭氧有关？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It can.
可以。
So you can find ozonated oils on the market for oil pulling.
因此，您可以在市场上找到用于抽油的臭氧油。
So this is an ancient Ayurvedic practice.
所以这是一种古老的阿育吠陀疗法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Going back to ozone, though, just killing off mycotoxins and bacteria, this can get kind of controversial, but a lot of naturopaths will use gas ozone either rectally or they'll use it IV, too.
不过，回到臭氧，只是杀死霉菌毒素和细菌，这可能会引起争议，但很多自然疗法医生会直肠使用臭氧，或者也会使用静脉注射。
You have to go to someone who knows what they're doing.
你必须去找一个知道自己在做什么的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Rectal ozone?
直肠臭氧？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To get all the way up to the oral microbiome?
想要了解口腔微生物群吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
No, it would affect more like the gut area-
不，它会影响更多的肠道区域——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay
好的
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
the pancreas, the liver, et cetera.
胰腺、肝脏等。
It's used-
是用的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nothing shocks me anymore
没有什么能再让我震惊
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
it's used a lot with mold elimination, mycotoxin elimination.
它被广泛用于消除霉菌、消除霉菌毒素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I get a lot of questions nowadays about mold toxicity-
我现在收到很多关于霉菌毒性的问题-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
especially people in Austin.
尤其是奥斯汀的人们。
I don't know if you know this, but it's either theory or real that lots of people who live in Austin or used to live in Austin think they have mold toxicity.
我不知道你是否知道这一点，但无论是理论还是现实，许多住在奥斯汀或曾经住在奥斯汀的人都认为自己患有霉菌毒性。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Is it because of a lot of new building architecture?
是因为有很多新建筑吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know.
我不知道。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
They say a lot of new buildings are too-
他们说很多新建筑也是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've honestly, the heat, cold, or the heat-cold variation-
老实说，热、冷或冷热变化-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and the moisture.
和水分。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know if this is true or not, but the last thing you ever want to do is tell somebody who thinks they have something-
我不知道这是否属实，但你最不想做的事情就是告诉那些认为自己拥有某些东西的人——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that they don't.
但他们没有。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm not saying they don't, I hear this a lot.
我并不是说他们不这样做，我经常听到这样的说法。
I've known a number of people that have left the city of Austin-
我认识很多离开奥斯汀市的人-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Because of the mold?
因为模具？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because they couldn't deal with the mold.
因为他们无法处理霉菌。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Interesting.
有趣。
Mold, it can be scary.
霉菌，这可能很可怕。
We see it affect the teeth.
我们看到它会影响牙齿。
The teeth will just start degrading, too, in some of the kids who have tested really high in mycotoxins.
对于一些霉菌毒素检测结果非常高的孩子来说，牙齿也会开始退化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So rectal ozone.
所以直肠臭氧。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wild.
狂野。
Well, hey, listen, it's the digestive tract.
嗯，嘿，听着，这是消化道。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We're a health science podcast.
我们是一个健康科学播客。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So everyone can look it up on their own, but there are providers out there doing it.
所以每个人都可以自己查找，但也有提供者这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh.
哦。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So ozone can be great as an antimicrobial instead of an antibiotic.
因此，臭氧可以作为一种很好的抗菌剂而不是抗生素。
Now, going back to oil pulling, oil pulling is an ancient Ayurvedic practice.
现在，回到油拔，油拔是一种古老的阿育吠陀疗法。
It used to be with sesame oil.
以前是加芝麻油的。
More people do it with coconut oil now.
现在越来越多的人用椰子油来做这件事。
I oil pull a couple times a week occasionally.
我每周偶尔抽油几次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what does that practice look like?
那么这种做法是什么样的呢？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So I put a spoonful of organic raw coconut oil in my mouth, let it melt, and just swish it around as I'm dawdling around in the morning.
所以我把一勺有机生椰子油放进嘴里，让它融化，然后在早上闲逛的时候把它漱口。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nasal breathing.
用鼻呼吸。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Nasal breathing.
用鼻呼吸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Don't spit it into your sink.
不要将其吐到水槽中。
It will clog your sink.
它会堵塞你的水槽。
Spit into the trash can.
吐到垃圾桶里。
So what is it doing?
那么它在做什么呢？
Well, it's dislodging the biofilm as you're swishing, okay?
嗯，当你漱口时它会去除生物膜，好吗？
Lauric acid, which is in coconut oil, is antimicrobial It can help with lymphatic stimulation, and it has some anti-inflammatory properties too, and a lot of people report it makes their teeth look brighter and whiter, which is nice.
椰子油中的月桂酸具有抗菌作用，可以帮助刺激淋巴，还具有一些抗炎特性，很多人报告说它可以让他们的牙齿看起来更亮更白，这很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, you do have great teeth.
我的意思是，你的牙齿确实很棒。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Well, I'll tell you the story why.
好吧，我会告诉你为什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, it's in your profession to have great teeth, but I walked in and I met you for the first time in person.
我的意思是，你的职业就是拥有一口好牙，但我走进来还是第一次见到你本人。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Ah.
啊。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I was like, "Wow, you have really, really nice teeth."
我当时想，“哇，你的牙齿真的非常好。”
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
They're not real.
它们不是真的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're not real?
他们不是真的吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I had facial trauma.
我有面部外伤。
Should we get into that?
我们应该介入吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, let's get into that.
是的，让我们开始吧。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So when I was 10, it's why I became a dentist.
所以当我十岁时，这就是我成为一名牙医的原因。
When I was 10, I was trying to gain the attention of my older brother's friends, who were very into dirt biking and BMX biking, and we had just watched the movie "Rad," and I thought I would impress them, and they were all doing tricks out in the neighborhood.
当我 10 岁的时候，我试图引起我哥哥的朋友们的注意，他们非常喜欢越野自行车和 BMX 自行车，我们刚刚看了电影“Rad”，我想我会给他们留下深刻的印象，他们都在附近玩杂技。
And long story short, I fell off my bike and landed on the asphalt in a vault and knocked out my teeth, and I broke my premaxilla, and you can see the scar still.
长话短说，我从自行车上摔下来，落在拱顶的沥青上，撞掉了我的牙齿，我的前颌骨也骨折了，你仍然可以看到伤疤。
But this is part of my story, and it's why I became a dentist, because I was in and out of dental offices and oral surgeons and orthodontists.
但这是我故事的一部分，也是我成为一名牙医的原因，因为我进出牙科诊所、口腔外科医生和正畸医生。
And at the time, I was an art theater kid.
当时，我是一个艺术剧院的孩子。
I loved working with my hands.
我喜欢用手工作。
But as time went on, I thought, "Well, gosh, I don't want to be sleeping on couches in New York City.
但随着时间的推移，我想，“好吧，天哪，我不想睡在纽约市的沙发上。
I need to make sure I make a living.
我需要确保我能谋生。
What am I going to do?" And I really love science, and I thought, "Well, how do I work with my hands?" And it was dentistry, and dentistry can be a little creative and artistic, too.
我该怎么办？”我真的很喜欢科学，我想，“那么，我该如何用手工作呢？”这就是牙科，牙科也可以有点创意和艺术。
So these are not real, but thank you.
所以这些都不是真的，但是谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. Well, you're welcome, and thanks for the full disclosure.
不，不客气，感谢您的全面披露。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They look very natural.
它们看起来很自然。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah, they did a great job.
是的，他们做得很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Unlike some people's falsies-
不像有些人的假话——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or whatever.
或其他什么。
What do you call them?
你怎么称呼他们？
I call them falsies because I've got a tooth that was kind of chipped in half from getting hit, honestly.
我称它们为“假牙”，因为老实说，我的一颗牙齿因被击中而断成两半。
Dumb.
哑的。
If you're going to box, make sure you're getting paid a lot of money.
如果你要参加拳击比赛，请确保你能得到很多钱。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And you wear a mouth guard.
而且你戴着护齿套。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, and wear a mouth guard.
对了，还要戴上牙套。
There are better martial arts where you can go full blast, like Brazilian jujitsu, where you stand less of a chance of brain injury, let's just say.
有更好的武术可以让你全力以赴，比如巴西柔术，你脑部受伤的机会较小，这么说吧。
So as a neuroscientist, I can't support boxing.
所以作为一名神经科学家，我不能支持拳击。
But I remember the movie "Rad."
但我记得电影《Rad》。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's so good.
太好了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I remember the back flip at the end.
我记得最后的后空翻。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I remember the whole thing that-
我记得整件事——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I think I was trying to do that.
我想我正在尝试这样做。
I don't know what I was doing.
我不知道我在做什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Anyway.
无论如何。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Didn't land it.
没有落地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Didn't land it.
没有落地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, you landed it, but on the wrong-
好吧，你成功了，但是错了——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So this is a bridge
所以这是一座桥
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
on your face, yeah.
在你脸上，是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
You could get implants.
你可以获得植入物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oof.
噢。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
People have flippers.
人们有脚蹼。
We were talking about hockey players earlier.
我们之前谈论过曲棍球运动员。
You'll see them flipping their flippers around with their fake teeth.
你会看到他们用假牙翻转脚蹼。
So a flipper's a retainer with fake teeth on it.
所以鳍状肢是一种带有假牙的保持器。
There's a lot of different things you can do.
您可以做很多不同的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
But what's interesting, I was part of making my teeth.
但有趣的是，我也参与了长牙的过程。
I sat in the lab and helped, so-
我坐在实验室里帮忙，所以-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's cool
太酷了
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
I wanted them to look not quite as contrived, I suppose.
我想我希望它们看起来不那么做作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, they look very natural.
嗯，它们看起来很自然。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Thanks.
谢谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And today we're learning all the ways in which teeth are just part of this whole ecosystem that's so critical.
今天我们正在了解牙齿作为整个生态系统的一部分的所有方式，这一点非常重要。
I have to ask, and we will come back to some things related to avoiding really horrible diseases by way of taking better care of one's oral health.
我必须问，我们会回到一些与通过更好地照顾口腔健康来避免真正可怕的疾病有关的事情。
Nicotine.
尼古丁。
These days, everyone knows or should know that smoking, vaping, dipping, and snuffing, and yes, I did say vaping, are all terrible for your health.
如今，每个人都知道或应该知道吸烟、吸电子烟、吸电子烟和吸鼻烟，是的，我确实说过吸电子烟，这些都对您的健康有害。
The vapers will say it's not carcinogenic, cancer-causing, and I'll say remains to be made really clear, but the whole popcorn lung thing is clearly problematic.
电子烟爱好者会说它不会致癌，不会引起癌症，我想说还有待澄清，但整个爆米花肺的事情显然是有问题的。
But nicotine doesn't cause cancer.
但尼古丁不会致癌。
It's the delivery mechanism.
这就是传递机制。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But these days, a lot of people, realizing the cognitive enhancement, if you will, I don't even like the phrase, the stimulant effect of nicotine, are using nicotine pouches in particular, gums, let's set patches aside for the moment, and mints and things of that sort for the stimulant effect.
但现在，很多人意识到认知能力的增强，如果你愿意的话，我什至不喜欢尼古丁的刺激作用这个词，他们特别使用尼古丁袋，口香糖，让我们暂时把贴片放在一边，还有薄荷糖之类的东西来达到刺激作用。
It's an unusual stimulant because it also relaxes oneself a little bit at the same time, so it's kind of that sweet spot.
这是一种不寻常的兴奋剂，因为它同时也能让自己放松一点，所以它是一种甜蜜点。
And I confess, I will occasionally take one or two milligrams, very low dose.
我承认，我偶尔会服用一两毫克，剂量非常低。
Most pouches are anywhere from three to eight pouches, milligrams rather.
大多数袋子都是三到八袋，更确切地说是毫克。
I'll take one to two milligrams of nicotine in the form of a gum.
我会服用一到两毫克口香糖形式的尼古丁。
I'll just chew it, and then take it out.
我就嚼一下，然后拿出来。
Nicotine is a vasoconstrictor.
尼古丁是一种血管收缩剂。
What does nicotine do to the oral microbiome?
尼古丁对口腔微生物有什么作用？
Are you going to make me quit nicotine?
你要让我戒掉尼古丁吗？
I don't feel addicted, but every addict says that, so yeah.
我不觉得上瘾，但每个上瘾者都这么说，所以是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
The first step is admitting the issue.
第一步是承认这个问题。
So I don't want to villainize anything.
所以我不想恶毒地对待任何事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, you can villainize it.
不，你可以将其恶化。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So I agree with you.
所以我同意你的观点。
I don't think it's the nicotine itself, but the pouches, for example, are becoming very popular.
我不认为是尼古丁本身的问题，而是尼古丁袋等产品变得非常流行。
So what else is in those?
那么其中还有什么呢？
And there's a really interesting case study that maybe we can link it for people to look at.
有一个非常有趣的案例研究，也许我们可以将其链接起来供人们查看。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And I'll share it with you later.
稍后我会与大家分享。
And then I have colleagues who are reporting this all throughout the globe, but one brand in particular, it will have mannitol and maltodextrin in it, which are sugar alcohols and a different carbohydrate, and they market them as sugar-free.
然后我的同事们在全球范围内报告了这一情况，但特别是一个品牌，它含有甘露醇和麦芽糖糊精，它们是糖醇和一种不同的碳水化合物，他们将它们作为无糖进行营销。
Well, products are allowed to have trace amounts of sugar still in the product, very small amount, and still be called sugar-free.
那么，产品中允许含有微量的糖，非常少量，仍然被称为无糖。
And the issue with these products is the duration of action, the contact time, and you're supposed to leave them in for 20 to 30 minutes.
这些产品的问题在于作用持续时间、接触时间，你应该让它们停留 20 到 30 分钟。
Am I correct?
我说得对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's right.
没错。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So it's quite a long time to have that up in the mucosa, along the bone, and along your teeth that potentially has some sugar in it, okay?
因此，它需要相当长的时间才能在粘膜、骨骼和牙齿上停留，其中可能含有一些糖，好吗？
So it's like if you're sucking on a hard candy.
这就像你在吮吸硬糖一样。
But also we're seeing changes to the cellular structure up in that area.
但我们也看到该区域的细胞结构发生了变化。
So you can see leukoplakia, which is like white patching, which can be pre-cancerous.
所以你可以看到白斑，就像白色斑块，可能是癌前病变。
So this is why I just like everyone to get checked out.
所以这就是为什么我希望每个人都去检查一下。
And we are seeing bone loss and gum recession.
我们看到骨质流失和牙龈萎缩。
Again, any time you put anything into the mouth, it's going to change and shift the microbiome, and that could be a filling, that could be a piece of gum, that could be-
再说一次，任何时候你把任何东西放进嘴里，它都会改变和改变微生物组，这可能是填充物，可能是一块口香糖，可能是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Toothpick
牙签
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
a toothpick, anything, arguably besides neutral pH water.
牙签，任何东西，可以说除了中性pH值水之外。
And so this case study This gentleman was going in, I believe he was in his mid-50s.
所以这个案例研究 这位先生进去了，我相信他 50 多岁。
He started using these pouches and had always had very wonderful dental checkups with X-rays, and went in regularly, and maybe he missed one appointment.
他开始使用这些造口袋，并且总是通过 X 光进行非常好的牙科检查，并且定期去做检查，也许他错过了一次预约。
And after 15 months of use, the X-rays are outrageous.
使用15个月后，X光检查结果令人震惊。
He just has rampant decay along the side where he had the pouch, very likely from potentially that trace amount of sugar, the microbiome changes.
他只是在他有育儿袋的一侧出现了严重的腐烂，很可能是由于潜在的微量糖，微生物组发生了变化。
It looked like mothball chunks taken out of his teeth, and he lost some teeth.
看起来就像是从他的牙齿中取出的樟脑丸，他失去了一些牙齿。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So this isn't to scare people, but if you're going to choose to use these, I just say know the risks and make sure you're getting checked regularly at your dentist.
所以这并不是为了吓唬人们，但如果你要选择使用这些，我只是说要了解风险并确保你定期去看牙医。
Don't just ghost your dentist.
不要只是欺骗你的牙医。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Because if they're starting to see cellular changes, recession, or early decay, then you may say, "Gosh, I should really cut back on this."
因为如果他们开始看到细胞变化、衰退或早期衰退，那么你可能会说，“天哪，我真的应该减少这些。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or maybe if somebody is really adamant about taking nicotine, they should just take a milligram or two milligram pill of nicotine.
或者，如果有人真的坚决要服用尼古丁，他们应该只服用一毫克或两毫克尼古丁药丸。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or a patch.
或者一个补丁。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You scared me with leukoplakia.
你的白斑吓到我了。
Yeah, because growing up we were all told no one really dips in Northern California, but don't dip.
是的，因为在成长过程中，我们都被告知没有人真正在北加州浸泡，但不要浸泡。
And then I saw these pictures of leukoplakia-
然后我看到了这些白斑的照片-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Jaw recession
下巴后缩
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
jaw recession, and it's pretty vile.
下巴萎缩，而且非常严重。
And so they're designed to scare you.
所以它们就是为了吓唬你而设计的。
It scared me sufficiently.
这已经足够让我害怕了。
I never wanted to chew tobacco anyway.
无论如何，我从来不想嚼烟草。
But good to know.
但很高兴知道。
Coffee, do I need to stop drinking coffee?
咖啡，我需要停止喝咖啡吗？
Okay, thank you.
好的，谢谢。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's amazing.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're from Portland, after all.
毕竟你来自波特兰。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or near Portland.
或者波特兰附近。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
How could I possibly say that?
我怎么可能这么说呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You wouldn't be able to return home.
你将无法回家。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Coffee's great.
咖啡很棒。
It will dry out the mouth a bit.
它会让嘴有点干。
Just counteract it with hydration, and it will stain your teeth, so go in regularly for cleanings, and you may want to-- If that bothers you, there are ways to bleach your teeth or lighten your teeth.
只要通过补水来抵消它，它就会弄脏你的牙齿，所以定期进行清洁，你可能想要——如果这让你烦恼，有一些方法可以漂白你的牙齿或美白你的牙齿。
Hydroxyapatite's a wonderful way to improve the brightness and whiteness of your teeth, and oil pulling as well.
羟基磷灰石是改善牙齿亮度和洁白度以及拔油效果的绝佳方法。
Or you can use heavy hitter bleaches, too.
或者您也可以使用强力漂白剂。
Just don't overdo it.
只是不要做得太过分。
Everybody's overdoing everything now.
现在每个人都做得太过分了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And bleaching too much can damage your teeth.
过度漂白会损坏牙齿。
It can cause chemical harm to the pulp or the nerve over time, and some people will get spontaneous abscessing or need root canals.
随着时间的推移，它会对牙髓或神经造成化学伤害，有些人会出现自发性脓肿或需要根管治疗。
These are people who are really bleaching all the time, the people who you need sunglasses to look at their teeth, and it's just not really a natural aesthetic.
这些人真的一直在漂白，需要戴太阳镜才能看到他们的牙齿，这并不是真正的自然审美。
But some people are into that, but just know what the risks are.
但有些人对此很感兴趣，但只知道风险是什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
That's what I would say.
我就是这么说的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The two things I've done in the last couple of years that have completely transformed my oral health, says my dentist, and how I feel are, first of all, I switched a few years ago, I would say really about 14 months ago, I just said, "That's it.
我的牙医说，过去几年我所做的两件事彻底改变了我的口腔健康，我的感受是，首先，我几年前就改变了，我想说的是大约 14 个月前，我只是说，“就是这样。
I'm not eating processed foods again.
我不会再吃加工食品了。
I'm just not going to do it." So I eat meat, fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables, and I eat some rice, oatmeal, and a good sourdough bread.
我只是不会这么做。”所以我吃肉、鱼、鸡蛋、水果、蔬菜，还吃一些米饭、燕麦片和优质酵母面包。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Butter, olive oil.
黄油、橄榄油。
Which is not to say that I won't have a slice of pizza someday, but I was like, that's it.
这并不是说有一天我不会吃一片披萨，但我当时想，就是这样。
I'm kind of over it.
我有点受够了。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
49 years old, I've eaten enough of that stuff.
49岁了，这些东西我已经吃够了。
I'm kind of bored with it anyway.
无论如何我对此感到有点无聊。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I hear you.
我听到了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And what was interesting is I used to get a lot of tartar buildup, a lot, despite brushing and flossing on the-- what are the lower front teeth called?
有趣的是，尽管我用刷牙和使用牙线清洁了下门牙，但我以前还是会积聚很多牙垢，很多——下门牙叫什么？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Incisors.
门牙。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, and they'd scrape it away.
是的，他们会把它刮掉。
It's a non-issue now.
现在这不是问题了。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Interesting.
有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's completely gone.
它完全消失了。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
So we have minor salivary glands on the floor of our mouth, and that is a common place people will see calculus or tartar is those lower teeth.
因此，我们的口底有小唾液腺，人们经常看到牙石或牙石的地方就是下牙。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
That's where you'll feel your hygienist scraping a lot.
在那里你会感觉到你的卫生员经常刮擦。
But I wonder if it's because you increased your K2 in your diet, which helps with calcium metabolism.
但我想知道是否是因为您在饮食中增加了维生素 K2，这有助于钙代谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I supplement K2.
我还补充K2。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I was doing that before.
但我以前就是这么做的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then I switched, and I have just full disclosure, because there's nothing to disclose, I have no financial relationship to the toothpaste that you make or the toothpaste that Gator Dentist makes.
然后我换了，我刚刚完全披露，因为没有什么可披露的，我与你生产的牙膏或 Gator Dentist 生产的牙膏没有财务关系。
I actually know his real name, but he hides as Gator Dentist.
我实际上知道他的真名，但他隐藏为鳄鱼牙医。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I love Gator.
我爱鳄鱼。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Gator Dentist.
鳄鱼牙医。
But I switched from fluoride-containing toothpaste, not because of fear of fluoride, but excitement about hydroxyapatite.
但我不再使用含氟牙膏，不是因为害怕氟化物，而是因为对羟基磷灰石的兴奋。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I switched to using your toothpaste, and I occasionally-- well, I routinely switch back and forth with NOBS, or I think it stands for No BS
所以我改用你的牙膏，我偶尔——好吧，我经常用NOBS来回切换，或者我认为它代表No BS
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which is Gator Dentist's tooth tablet product.
这是Gator Dentist的牙片产品。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I use them, and neither of them pay me.
所以我使用他们，他们都不付钱给我。
I pay full price.
我付全价。
They don't send it to me.
他们不发送给我。
I purchase it like anyone else.
我像其他人一样购买它。
And that's made a tremendous difference, says my dentist.
我的牙医说，这带来了巨大的变化。
I have no cavities whatsoever.
我没有任何蛀牙。
I was constantly battling this.
我一直在与这个作斗争。
When I was a kid, I had a bunch of oral health issues.
当我还是个孩子的时候，我有很多口腔健康问题。
And I don't want to waste our time talking about those right now.
我现在不想浪费时间谈论这些。
Maybe we'll return to them a little bit later.
也许我们稍后会再回到他们身边。
But my teeth and oral microbiome never felt better.
但我的牙齿和口腔微生物从未感觉更好。
It's just remarkable.
这真是太了不起了。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's just remarkable.
这真是太了不起了。
And I have a family member who has some gut issues, just digestion issues, and it's unclear what's going on there, and I'm inspired to try and help them address that through the oral microbiome-
我有一个家庭成员有一些肠道问题，只是消化问题，目前还不清楚那里发生了什么，我受到启发尝试通过口腔微生物组帮助他们解决这个问题-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
by switching to hydroxyapatite.
通过改用羟基磷灰石。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And test their oral microbiome.
并测试他们的口腔微生物组。
That'd be very interesting to know what's going on in there, because think, you're swallowing-
知道里面发生了什么会很有趣，因为想想，你正在吞咽——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is there a best test?
有最好的测试吗？
Sorry.
对不起。
Is there a best test?
有最好的测试吗？
Because a lot of listeners are going to say, okay, I want to-- If they have the disposable income, they're going to want to test their oral microbiome.
因为很多听众会说，好吧，我想——如果他们有可支配收入，他们就会想要测试他们的口腔微生物组。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is there one that your office uses or that-
您的办公室是否使用或-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I use either the SILLHA test, which is more just biomarkers.
我使用 SILLHA 测试，它更像是生物标志物。
So it's a-
所以这是一个-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How do you spell that?
你怎么拼写这个？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
S-I-L-L-H-A.
S-I-L-L-H-A。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
This is done in an office.
这是在办公室完成的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's just testing basic biomarkers, so I use it a lot as an educational tool.
它只是测试基本的生物标志物，所以我经常将其用作教育工具。
It will show the pH, the acidity, if there's leukocytes, if there's red blood cells, inflammatory markers.
它将显示 pH 值、酸度、是否有白细胞、是否有红细胞、炎症标记物。
So a lot of parents, this is so new to them when I'm talking about this.
当我谈论这个问题时，很多父母对他们来说都是陌生的。
But it prints out in a graph form for them.
但它以图表形式为他们打印出来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a cheek swab?
这是脸颊拭子吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Spit.
吐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Spit.
吐。
So kid or adult will spit in that little-
所以孩子或成人都会吐在那个小东西里-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Kids usually won't spit till about four, just physically.
孩子们通常要到四点左右才会吐口水，只是身体上的。
It's hard.
这很难。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Kids can't spit until they're four?
孩子四岁才能吐口水？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It's hard.
这很难。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Huh.
呵呵。
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Anyway, but I really like tests that use shotgun metagenomics because you're looking for the whole array of bacterial DNA.
不管怎样，但我真的很喜欢使用鸟枪法宏基因组学的测试，因为你正在寻找整个细菌 DNA 阵列。
And so my favorite is Bristl, like a toothbrush bristle.
所以我最喜欢的是 Bristl，就像牙刷的刷毛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And it's direct to consumer.
而且它是直接面向消费者的。
Because the issue is I can talk about all of these things, but sometimes it's hard to find providers that are offering them.
因为问题是我可以谈论所有这些事情，但有时很难找到提供这些内容的提供商。
So I really love people to be able to get the tools in their home.
所以我真的很喜欢人们能够在家中获得这些工具。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So Bristl is a company that people can-
因此，Bristl 是一家人们可以-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's an oral microbiome test.
这是口腔微生物组测试。
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And it's really user-friendly.
而且它确实非常人性化。
Their interface is wonderful, and they will give guidance and protocols.
他们的界面很棒，他们会提供指导和协议。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Are you affiliated with them?
你和他们有关系吗？
I should probably ask, because some of the audience will ask.
我也许应该问，因为有些观众会问。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I am actually.
我其实是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes, I am.
是的，我是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
That's fine.
没关系。
As long as the people know.
只要老百姓都知道。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Their oral probiotic, we have a collaboration with their oral probiotic.
他们的口服益生菌，我们和他们的口服益生菌有合作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
But regardless if it's Bristl or not, you look for a test that's using shotgun metagenomics.
但无论是否是 Bristl，您都会寻找使用鸟枪法宏基因组学的测试。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Shotgun metagenomics.
鸟枪法宏基因组学。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
There's PCR testing too, and a lot of biological dentists will offer something, like oral DNA is the most popular.
还有 PCR 测试，很多生物牙医都会提供一些东西，比如口腔 DNA 是最受欢迎的。
The issue with that is it's really only looking at the top 12 pathogens, periodontal pathogens, which is important, but there can be a lot of other information that you're missing.
问题是它实际上只关注前 12 种病原体，即牙周病原体，这很重要，但您可能会遗漏很多其他信息。
So it's a great place to start, and your dentist may offer that.
所以这是一个很好的起点，您的牙医可能会提供这种服务。
Again, it's Oral DNA, and I have no affiliation with Oral DNA.
再说一遍，这是 Oral DNA，我与 Oral DNA 没有任何关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
Thank you for that.
谢谢你。
I think some people want to test their oral microbiome, and other things in their mouth.
我认为有些人想测试他们的口腔微生物组以及口腔中的其他东西。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And there's more and more popping up.
而且越来越多的东西不断涌现。
The oral microbiome is really blowing up.
口腔微生物组确实正在爆炸。
So for those who are looking for investment opportunities, I'd say look toward the oral microbiome.
因此，对于那些正在寻找投资机会的人来说，我建议关注口腔微生物组。
It's kind of what the gut microbiome was doing a decade plus ago.
这就是肠道微生物组十多年前所做的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I feel like oral microbiome is so much more tractable.
我觉得口腔微生物群更容易处理。
Switch to nasal breathing, get away from alcohol-containing mouthwashes, consider a hydroxyapatite-containing toothpaste instead of fluoride, which brings us to fluoride.
改用鼻呼吸，远离含酒精的漱口水，考虑使用含羟基磷灰石的牙膏来代替氟化物，这让我们接触到氟化物。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's talk about fluoride.
我们来谈谈氟化物。
I've already been accused of being a sunscreen denier.
我已经被指责为防晒霜否认者。
No, I actually believe that sunscreen exists.
不，我实际上相信防晒霜的存在。
I do occasionally use zinc oxide sunscreen a little bit.
我偶尔会使用一点氧化锌防晒霜。
I prefer a physical barrier-
我更喜欢物理屏障-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because I'll wear a hat or something if I-- I don't tend to burn very easily, but if I feel like I might burn, I use a physical barrier.
因为如果我不太容易被烧伤，我会戴帽子或其他东西，但如果我觉得自己可能会被烧伤，我会使用物理屏障。
I'm being somewhat facetious here because people will say all sorts of things.
我在这里有点开玩笑，因为人们会说各种各样的话。
But, I did an episode about water, a little bit about oral health, certainly not the depth or expertise that you're providing today, so thank you.
但是，我做了一个关于水的节目，一点关于口腔健康的内容，当然不是您今天提供的深度或专业知识，所以谢谢您。
And I said, yeah, fluoride does a bunch of things.
我说，是的，氟化物有很多作用。
My question was and remains, why are we drinking fluoride?
我的问题过去和现在仍然是：我们为什么要喝氟化物？
But this relates to...
但这涉及到...
Okay, I'll tell this story briefly.
好吧，我简单讲一下这个故事。
It's not as cool as your story.
这不像你的故事那么酷。
I was taken to a dentist when I was a kid, and they put these-
当我还是个孩子的时候，我被带去看牙医，他们把这些——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Oh
哦
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like a mouthpiece with fluoride gel in it-
就像里面有氟化物凝胶的吹嘴一样——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
The fluoride tray
氟化物托盘
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
on the top and bottom, and they sat me in a little wicker chair in front of a TV with cartoons.
顶部和底部都有，他们让我坐在一张小藤椅上，前面有一台播放卡通片的电视。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I hated it.
我讨厌它。
It tasted awful, and it kind of had this sour thing.
味道很糟糕，而且有点酸。
So I was probably six or seven, so I drank it.
所以我大概六七岁，所以我喝了它。
I just sucked it up, drank it down, turned around, barfed all over the wicker chair.
我只是把它吸起来，喝了下去，转过身来，吐得藤椅上到处都是。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Oh my gosh.
天哪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Fluoride's a poison.
氟化物是一种毒药。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But everything is a poison at high concentrations.
但任何东西在高浓度下都是毒药。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Most everything is a poison, excuse me, at high concentrations.
对不起，大多数东西在高浓度下都是有毒的。
So I don't have anything against fluoride, but it is a poison.
所以我对氟化物没有任何抵抗力，但它是一种毒物。
Then the question becomes, if something is not dangerous in a small dose or concentration, what are its cumulative effects?
那么问题就变成了，如果某种东西在小剂量或浓度下并不危险，那么它的累积效应是什么？
This is what I have issues with.
这就是我所遇到的问题。
A lot of people say, "Oh, going through the X-ray machine, no big deal." But what if you fly 150 times a year?
很多人说：“哦，通过X光机，没什么大不了的。”但如果您每年飞行 150 次怎么办？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is it cumulative?
是累积的吗？
And so, the logic of the sort of pushback from the traditional, if I will, community sucks.
因此，如果我愿意的话，传统社区的这种抵制逻辑很糟糕。
They're just not logical.
他们只是不符合逻辑。
These are my colleagues sometimes, too.
有时这些也是我的同事。
You go to the dentist to get an X-ray, they're running behind the next wall.
你去看牙医拍X光片，他们就在隔壁墙后面跑。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
With a lead wall.
有铅墙。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Put you in a lead shield.
把你放在铅盾里。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I know.
我知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then they're like, "Oh, no, it's no big deal."
然后他们会说，“哦，不，这没什么大不了的。”
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, how many?
嗯，有多少？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How many times a year can you do this before it becomes a deal?
在达成交易之前，您一年可以这样做多少次？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So my question is, what is the rationale for putting fluoride in drinking water, given that the contact time in the mouth is so short?
所以我的问题是，考虑到氟化物在口腔中的接触时间如此短，为什么要在饮用水中添加氟化物呢？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then what's the cumulative effect of bringing fluoride into the gut over and over?
那么反复将氟化物带入肠道会产生什么累积效应呢？
And then earlier you said something, and I've never thought about this.
然后你刚才说了一些话，我从来没有想过这个。
The bones contain hydroxyapatite, 60% I think you said?
骨头里含有羟基磷灰石，我想你说的是60%？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
60% of your bone minerals are made from hydroxyapatite.
60% 的骨骼矿物质由羟基磷灰石制成。
Fluoride infiltrates-
氟化物渗透-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the minerals of the teeth and replaces it.
牙齿的矿物质并取代它。
So is fluoride going into our bones?
那么氟化物会进入我们的骨骼吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Skeletal fluorosis.
氟骨症。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, so I'm not trying to paint a scary picture here.
好吧，我并不是想在这里描绘一幅可怕的画面。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But frankly, and people can probably tell, my blood pressure goes up a little bit when people say, "Oh, you're anti-fluoride." I'm not anti-fluoride, but I just don't get the logic.
但坦率地说，人们可能看得出来，当人们说“哦，你是抗氟化物”时，我的血压会上升一点。我并不反对氟化物，但我只是不明白其中的逻辑。
It doesn't make sense.
这没有道理。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
You're thinking critically about it.
你正在批判性地思考它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Why would I continually bombard my system with fluoride-
为什么我要不断地用氟化物轰击我的系统-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
at the level of the gut, at the level of my bones?
在肠道的水平，在我的骨头的水平？
If it's good for me, tell me it's good for me.
如果这对我有好处，请告诉我这对我有好处。
But they're saying, "Oh, it's so that poor populations don't have decaying teeth." Sounds like a good argument.
但他们说，“哦，这是为了让穷人没有蛀牙。”听起来是一个很好的论点。
I'm not even counter-arguing it, but I can't piece together the logic.
我什至不反驳它，但我无法拼凑出逻辑。
And like most public health arguments, I feel like neither side is explicitly clear-
就像大多数公共卫生论点一样，我觉得双方都没有明确明确——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
about what exactly they're arguing about.
关于他们到底在争论什么。
And that's part of why I have this podcast, to try and get clarity on things.
这就是我开设这个播客的部分原因，试图澄清事情。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Okay.
好的。
I'll do my best.
我会尽力的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
And please don't worry that you're going to offend anyone, because I'll offend everybody.
请不要担心你会冒犯任何人，因为我会冒犯所有人。
And they've already said everything they possibly could.
他们已经说出了他们能说的一切。
And they'll say more, so I'm not afraid to open up these topics anymore.
他们会说更多，所以我不再害怕打开这些话题。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Okay.
好的。
Well, I appreciate that.
嗯，我很欣赏这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And I-
而我——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'll take the heat.
我会承受热量。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Well, I will get it, too.
嗯，我也会得到它。
Don't worry.
不用担心。
I have thick skin at this point.
我现在脸皮很厚。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But you have great teeth, and they don't.
但你有很好的牙齿，而他们却没有。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So...
所以...
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And I haven't had a cavity for multiple decades and haven't used fluoride.
我已经几十年没有蛀牙了，也没有使用过氟化物。
And Portland isn't fluoridated.
波特兰没有氟化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Portland is not fluoridated?
波特兰不加氟吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It is not.
事实并非如此。
So let's talk about that.
那么我们来谈谈这个吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Fun story.
有趣的故事。
Back in 2011, 2012, I was working on the pro-water fluoridation campaign, volunteering in Portland, picketing and handing out educational flyers, because I thought we needed it in our water.
早在 2011 年和 2012 年，我就致力于支持水氟化运动，在波特兰做志愿者，设置纠察线并分发教育传单，因为我认为我们的水中需要氟化物。
And this is because that's how I was trained, and I just never questioned it.
这是因为我就是这样接受训练的，而且我从来没有质疑过它。
I never picked up a journal to look at the other side.
我从来没有拿起日记去看另一面。
I thought anyone speaking out against water fluoridation, that's the Tin Hat Brigade, that's the Woo Woo Caucus, all the things.
我认为有人公开反对水氟化，那就是锡帽旅，那就是 Woo Woo 核心小组，所有这些。
I was that person.
我就是那个人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The Woo Woo Caucus?
呜呜核心小组？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's pretty funny.
这很有趣。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I like that.
我喜欢这样。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So I went to a debate in Portland, pro versus against.
所以我去波特兰参加了一场辩论，赞成与反对。
I don't like those terms, but it's just the easiest way to describe it.
我不喜欢这些术语，但这只是描述它的最简单的方式。
And I was sitting kind of on the pro side and just waiting to see these pseudo-scientists come out to speak.
我站在赞成的一边，等着看这些伪科学家站出来说话。
And I was so profoundly impressed with what they said and also had no idea that there were any concerns with fluoride.
他们所说的话给我留下了深刻的印象，而且也不知道氟化物有任何问题。
I had never been taught that in dental school, the endocrine disruption, the neurotoxicity, the skeletal fluorosis.
我从来没有在牙科学校学过内分泌干扰、神经毒性、氟骨症等知识。
I knew about dental fluorosis, but I, at that point, was of the mindset, well, it's just aesthetic, but your teeth are stronger.
我知道氟斑牙，但当时我的心态是，嗯，这只是美观，但你的牙齿更坚固。
And the microbiome issues, too.
微生物组也存在问题。
So it didn't take long.
所以没花多久的时间。
I just started rabbit holing, and there's so much literature.
我刚刚开始研究兔子洞，有很多文献。
And this, again, this was quite a while ago.
这又是很久以前的事了。
And more and more data and literature is coming out to question the practice.
越来越多的数据和文献开始质疑这种做法。
So it's important to go back to the history of water fluoridation.
因此，回顾水氟化的历史非常重要。
I'll try to be brief, but in the early 1900s, there was a dentist in Colorado Springs, Frederick McKay, who noticed his patients had mottled, brown-spotted teeth, but they were really strong.
我会尽量长话短说，但在 1900 年代初期，科罗拉多斯普林斯有一位牙医弗雷德里克·麦凯 (Frederick McKay)，他注意到他的病人的牙齿有斑驳的棕色斑点，但它们非常坚固。
They weren't getting decay.
它们并没有腐烂。
And so this kind of spread, and they started kind of trying to understand the why, and they realized there was a really high concentration of fluoride in the natural water supply that this community was drinking.
因此这种传播，他们开始试图理解其中的原因，他们意识到这个社区饮用的天然供水中的氟化物浓度非常高。
And this just kind of spread like wildfire with very little evidence-based medicine to back it, because this was in the early 1900s.
这就像野火一样蔓延，几乎没有循证医学支持，因为那是在 1900 年代初。
Now it was like the 1930s.
现在就像 1930 年代一样。
So no long-term safety studies or efficacy studies, and it was put in as an experiment in Grand Rapids, Michigan, in the mid-40s.
因此没有进行长期的安全性研究或功效研究，而是在 20 世纪 40 年代中期在密歇根州大急流城进行了一项实验。
After about a decade or so, they noticed that caries rates, cavity rates were going down.
大约十年后，他们注意到龋齿率和蛀牙率正在下降。
And so based on this observation, it just went like wildfire throughout the United States, and I believe about 80% of the United States is fluoridated.
因此，根据这一观察，它就像野火一样席卷了整个美国，我相信美国大约 80% 的地区都使用了氟化物。
So the pro advocates, if you will, say it's the greatest public health movement of the century because decay was such an issue.
因此，如果你愿意的话，支持者会说这是本世纪最伟大的公共卫生运动，因为腐烂是一个问题。
It's important to know dental decay is the top chronic disease globally in children and adults.
重要的是要知道蛀牙是全球儿童和成人中最常见的慢性疾病。
It's almost entirely preventable.
这几乎是完全可以预防的。
I think we've just normalized it.
我认为我们刚刚将其正常化。
You just get cavities, but I'd like to point out we're one of the only species to get dental decay.
你只是会长蛀牙，但我想指出的是，我们是唯一会蛀牙的物种之一。
Wild animals don't get decay.
野生动物不会腐烂。
Our domesticated animals do because of what we're feeding them, the kibble, processed animal food.
我们家养的动物之所以这么做，是因为我们给它们喂食粗粮、加工过的动物食品。
So here we are.
所以我们到了。
So it's been controversial from the beginning.
所以从一开始就备受争议。
Epidemiologists, endocrinologists, neuroscientists have always challenged it, saying this is a bad idea.
流行病学家、内分泌学家、神经科学家一直对此提出质疑，认为这是一个坏主意。
It's a highly reactive element.
它是一种高反应性元素。
The fluoride ion can interfere with iodine uptake and again, skeletal fluorosis, neurotoxicity, et cetera.
氟离子会干扰碘的吸收，进而导致氟骨症、神经毒性等。
So about seven years ago, there was a federal trial in Northern California, but it was federal.
大约七年前，北加州进行了一次联邦审判，但它是联邦审判。
The people versus the EPA.
人民与环保局的对抗。
It was a TSCA trial, and this has been ongoing for the past seven years, and basically, they were saying, "Where is your safety data, EPA, on the long-term effects of water fluoridation?" So the idea was that if we put it in the water, it's not a very efficient way to get fluoride to people, but eventually it will make itself into the saliva and have a topical effect coming out through the saliva.
这是 TSCA 的一项试验，在过去的七年里一直在进行，基本上，他们在说，“EPA，关于水氟化的长期影响的安全数据在哪里？”所以我们的想法是，如果我们把它放入水中，这并不是一种让人们获得氟化物的非常有效的方法，但最终它会进入唾液并通过唾液产生局部作用。
They used to think systemically it was actually incorporating into the developing teeth in children, making the enamel stronger that way, but that's been debunked.
他们曾经系统地认为它实际上融入了儿童正在发育的牙齿中，从而使牙釉质变得更强，但这种观点已被揭穿。
So now it's most likely still a topical benefit, maybe a little bit of a systemic benefit, touching the teeth.
所以现在它很可能仍然是局部益处，也许还有一点全身益处，接触牙齿。
And we do know fluoride really needs to work topically.
我们确实知道氟化物确实需要局部发挥作用。
We don't need to be ingesting it, and that is all through the data, and they're teaching that in dental schools now, too.
我们不需要摄入它，这一切都是通过数据进行的，他们现在也在牙科学校教授这一点。
Okay?
好的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
But this is the easiest way to get fluoride to the masses because caries or cavities are such an issue.
但这是向大众提供氟化物的最简单方法，因为龋齿或蛀牙是一个很大的问题。
Now, my first comment on this is we're not addressing the root cause of dental decay, which is our food.
现在，我对此的第一条评论是，我们没有解决蛀牙的根本原因，那就是我们的食物。
It's all the ultra-processed foods.
都是超加工食品。
Again, we didn't really see dental decay in humans until the agricultural revolution, the Industrial Revolution, and now the ultra-processed food craze that's been happening the past many decades.
再说一次，直到农业革命、工业革命以及过去几十年发生的超加工食品热潮之前，我们才真正看到人类蛀牙。
Okay?
好的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is that right?
是这样吗？
So if we look at skeletons from dead people, obviously.
因此，如果我们观察死者的骨骼，显然是这样。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, you can look at skeletons of live people.
嗯，你可以看看活人的骨骼。
Skeletons in dead people from dead people that died prior to 1900.
1900 年之前死亡的死者的骨骼。
How are their teeth?
他们的牙齿怎么样？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
1900, they would have decay.
1900年，它们就会腐烂。
But if you looked at about 10,000 years ago, very little.
但如果你看看大约一万年前，就会发现很少。
Unless they lived in an area with a lot of fruit abundance or honey, like where are you getting your sugar from?
除非他们生活在盛产水果或蜂蜜的地区，否则你从哪里获取糖？
And you go pick some berries on a bush, you're competing with the animals and the birds.
你去灌木丛中摘一些浆果，你正在与动物和鸟类竞争。
You didn't have much opportunity to over-consume sugar.
你没有太多机会过量摄入糖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
But there was the sugar trade, and then sugar was a sign of wealth and royalty, and people's teeth just rotted out, and it was because of our diet.
但有了糖贸易，糖就成了财富和皇室的象征，人们的牙齿就烂掉了，这是因为我们的饮食。
So that's the root cause issue that no one's talking about.
这就是没人谈论的根本原因问题。
We're just saying, "Let's slap fluoride on it." How about we educate and teach people what is really causing cavities?
我们只是说，“让我们在上面涂上氟化物吧。”我们如何教育和教导人们真正导致蛀牙的原因？
But anyway.
但无论如何。
Okay, so the Tasker trial was going on, and Judge Edward Chen was waiting for this National Toxicology Program's report, which was under the Department of Health and Human Services.
好吧，塔斯克案的审判正在进行中，爱德华·陈法官正在等待卫生与公众服务部下属的国家毒理学计划的报告。
And it reads like a soap opera, to be honest with you.
老实说，它读起来就像一部肥皂剧。
And it kept getting delayed and postponed, and they wouldn't release it.
而且它一直被推迟和推迟，而且他们不会发布它。
And finally, under the Freedom of Information Act, he said, "This needs to be released." And it said, "There is a strong correlation between increased fluoride consumption and IQ issues in children." And so with that, he took this information, and he made his ruling.
最后，根据《信息自由法》，他说，“这需要发布。”报告称，“氟化物摄入量增加与儿童智商问题之间存在很强的相关性。”就这样，他掌握了这些信息，并做出了裁决。
Now, this was after years of expert testimonies as well, okay, saying there's an unreasonable risk to current water fluoridation practices in the United States.
现在，这也是经过多年专家证词之后的结果，好吧，他们说美国目前的水氟化做法存在不合理的风险。
This was his ruling that just happened late last year.
这是他去年年底刚刚做出的裁决。
This is very new.
这是很新的。
And EPA, you now need to fix this.
EPA，你现在需要解决这个问题。
You need to regulate this better.
你需要更好地规范这一点。
What people will argue is a lot of the studies they were looking at that are showing lowered IQ in children or neurocognitive issues, it was at 1.2 or 1.5 milligrams per liter.
人们会争论的是，他们所关注的许多研究都显示儿童智商较低或存在神经认知问题，含量为每升 1.2 或 1.5 毫克。
That was the concentration.
这就是浓度。
The United States, we now do 0.7 milligrams per liter.
美国，我们现在做到每升0.7毫克。
But that's per liter.
但这是每升。
Okay?
好的？
So how many liters of water do you drink a day?
那么你每天喝多少升水呢？
This is the controversy.
这就是争议所在。
So for example, the American Academy of Pediatrics generally recommends pregnant women drink two to three liters a day.
例如，美国儿科学会一般建议孕妇每天喝两到三升。
You might be cooking with fluoridated water, making your pasta, making your soup.
您可能会用氟化水做饭、做面食、做汤。
How do we really know how much someone's getting exposed to?
我们如何真正知道某人接触了多少病毒？
What's their body composition?
他们的身体成分是什么？
How much do they weigh?
他们的体重是多少？
What are the other outside sources of fluoride?
氟化物的其他外部来源有哪些？
Are they swallowing their toothpaste?
他们吞下牙膏了吗？
Fluoride is in many pharmaceuticals because it helps increase bioavailability, especially SSRIs and Prilosec.
许多药物中都含有氟化物，因为它有助于提高生物利用度，尤其是 SSRI 和 Prilosec。
A lot of these have fluoride in them.
其中很多都含有氟化物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really?
真的吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Ultra-processed foods will have fluoride.
超加工食品含有氟化物。
So the factory that's making your Rockstar energy drink or your Hi-C or whatever you're consuming, they're not using reverse osmosis to filter the water, so you're getting fluoride that way.
因此，生产 Rockstar 能量饮料、Hi-C 或任何您消费的饮料的工厂，他们没有使用反渗透来过滤水，所以您可以通过这种方式获取氟化物。
It's naturally found in green tea and black tea, and this is not to make people worried about green and black tea.
它天然存在于绿茶和红茶中，这并不是为了让人们担心绿茶和红茶。
I still consume them.
我仍然消费它们。
It's more to say, how are we really understanding how much is exposed to?
更重要的是，我们如何真正了解暴露于多少？
And so they were finding that pregnant women, they follow...
所以他们发现孕妇，他们遵循......
There's many studies now.
现在有很多研究。
A famous one was a Rivka Green study out of Canada, and they followed about 520 mother-child pairs.
一项著名的研究是加拿大的 Rivka Green 研究，他们跟踪了大约 520 对母子。
They tested urinary fluoride in the mother per trimester, averaged it, and then followed these children to the age of three or four and did IQ tests and found that mothers who had higher concentrations of urinary fluoride, the children tested lower on their IQ tests up to five to seven points, and that's on par with lead.
他们每三个月对母亲的尿氟化物进行测试，取平均值，然后跟踪这些孩子到三四岁，进行智商测试，结果发现，尿氟化物浓度较高的母亲，孩子的智商测试结果较低，最多可达五到七分，与铅相当。
Okay?
好的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
On par with lead?
与铅相当吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
On par with lead, yes.
与铅相当，是的。
And so that was in 2019.
那是2019年的事了。
There's been so many more studies now.
现在还有很多研究。
So the judge ruled, "EPA, you need to regulate this better." In that amount of time, there was a meta-analysis that came out that further supported the NTP report by JAMA Pediatrics, okay.
因此法官裁定：“环保局，你需要更好地监管这一点。”在这段时间内，出现了一项荟萃分析，进一步支持了《JAMA 儿科学》的 NTP 报告，好吧。
And this is very controversial for these editors to be putting out, by the way, so I commend them.
顺便说一句，对于这些编辑来说，发布这篇文章是非常有争议的，所以我赞扬他们。
And also a Cochrane report came out, Cochrane Collaborative, which has said, this again was very recent, looking at all the data from water fluoridation, water fluoridation isn't reducing decay like we thought it was.
Cochrane 合作组织还发布了一份 Cochrane 报告，该报告称，这又是最近发生的事情，查看来自水氟化的所有数据，水氟化并没有像我们想象的那样减少腐烂。
It's only reducing decay by about one-quarter a cavity per person.
它只能减少每人大约四分之一的蛀牙。
One quarter of a cavity per person.
每人四分之一个洞。
So that's not statistically significant.
所以这在统计上并不显着。
So people will say, "Well, what gives?
所以人们会说，“那么，有什么作用呢？
Why were cavity rates going down when we added fluoride to the water?" Well, it's hard to say.
为什么当我们向水中添加氟化物时，蛀牙率会下降？”嗯，这很难说。
Maybe they were already just going down due to education, more access to dental hygiene, and toothbrushing, flossing.
也许由于教育、更多的口腔卫生以及刷牙、使用牙线的机会，他们的水平已经在下降。
But also, we now have fluoride everywhere in our toothpaste.
而且，现在我们的牙膏中到处都含有氟化物。
So fluoride was put in the water in the 1940s.
因此在 20 世纪 40 年代，人们在水中添加了氟化物。
It wasn't added to our toothpaste until the 1960s, and now it's everywhere.
直到 20 世纪 60 年代，它才被添加到我们的牙膏中，而现在它已经无处不在。
We get fluoride everywhere.
我们到处都有氟化物。
Rinses, the varnishes that made you vomit at the office.
冲洗液，那些让你在办公室呕吐的清漆。
And by the way, that's very common.
顺便说一句，这很常见。
That's very common, and it's because a lot of those fluoride varnishes, number one, fluoride, it does have a poison control label on it.
这很常见，因为很多氟化物清漆，第一，氟化物，上面确实有毒物控制标签。
You're not supposed to swallow it.
你不应该吞下它。
But these varnishes also have polyurethane and hexane derivatives in them.
但这些清漆中也含有聚氨酯和己烷衍生物。
It's what makes them so sticky.
这就是它们如此粘的原因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I still loathe going to the dentist.
我还是讨厌去看牙医。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I know that.
我知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think it's because of that early association.
我认为这是因为早期的联系。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So it's very controversial, and unfortunately, we've lost sight of the science.
所以这是非常有争议的，不幸的是，我们已经忽视了科学。
It's getting buried in politics right now, and it really upsets me because it's not a political issue.
它现在正被政治所淹没，这真的让我感到不安，因为这不是一个政治问题。
We just need to look at the data, and I feel like we're losing sight of the scientific method.
我们只需要看数据，我觉得我们正在忽视科学方法。
The American Dental Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics is doubling down on saying we have to put fluoride in the water.
美国牙科协会和美国儿科学会加倍强调我们必须在水中添加氟化物。
And for nothing else, I think it's important to know 97% of the world does not fluoridate their water.
不为别的，我认为了解世界上 97% 的人没有对水进行氟化非常重要。
This is a very United States controversy.
这是一个非常美国化的争议。
Many countries removed it and found, I think it was Denmark, Germany, Japan, they have very low decay rates.
很多国家把它去掉后发现，我想是丹麦、德国、日本，他们的腐烂率非常低。
And why is this?
这是为什么呢？
Well, they educated their population on what's really causing decay and also made fluoride toothpaste accessible.
嗯，他们教育人们了解真正导致蛀牙的原因，并提供了氟化牙膏。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I have Danish relatives.
我有丹麦亲戚。
They have very nice teeth.
他们有非常漂亮的牙齿。
If you told me that there's no fluoride in the drinking water in England I might be like, well, sorry, my English friends, but that's the stereotype, right?
如果你告诉我英国的饮用水中不含氟化物，我可能会说，好吧，对不起，我的英国朋友，但这就是刻板印象，对吗？
That their teeth are bad.
他们的牙齿不好。
I don't think that that's true any longer.
我认为这不再是真的。
I think that that was true at one point.
我认为这在某一时刻是正确的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I think they're crowded and crooked, too, and a lot of that has to do, I think, with facial development as well.
我认为它们也很拥挤和弯曲，我认为这在很大程度上也与面部发育有关。
I think we see a lot of Western European, they do have that kind of dysmorphic face, if you will, probably from nasal breathing.
我想我们看到很多西欧人，他们确实有那种畸形的脸，如果你愿意的话，可能是因为鼻呼吸。
Who knows why?
谁知道为什么？
Industrial revolution, allergies, mouth breathing, et cetera.
工业革命、过敏、张口呼吸等等。
Why does it seem more prevalent there?
为什么它在那里似乎更普遍？
So that's the quick take on it.
这就是快速采取的做法。
And so I just think it should be a personal choice.
所以我认为这应该是个人选择。
If you want to use fluoride, you can go out to the store.
如果你想使用氟化物，你可以去商店。
You can get fluoride toothpaste at the dollar store now.
您现在可以在一元店买到含氟牙膏。
They give it out for free at many clinics.
他们在许多诊所免费提供。
To me, I just think it's a medical ethical issue.
对我来说，我只是认为这是一个医学伦理问题。
We're mass-medicating a population without their consent.
我们在未经人民同意的情况下对他们进行大规模药物治疗。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And then the even bigger issue for me is no one's talking about this, nor can I find any literature on it.
对我来说更大的问题是没有人谈论这个，我也找不到任何关于它的文献。
What is it doing to the gut microbiome?
它对肠道微生物组有什么作用？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Because it is an antimicrobial.
因为它是一种抗菌剂。
So that would be a wonderful study, NIH, if you're listening.
所以，如果你在听的话，NIH，这将是一项很棒的研究。
Can we test people that live in fluoridated areas versus those that don't?
我们可以测试生活在氟化地区的人和非氟化地区的人吗？
Could we follow them?
我们可以跟随他们吗？
Maybe it's a prospective cohort study to just see how their microbiomes are different.
也许这是一项前瞻性队列研究，只是为了看看它们的微生物组有何不同。
Because it just doesn't make sense to me.
因为这对我来说没有意义。
And why would we ingest something systemically with all these potential risks when we could just use it topically or actually talk about what's really causing decay?
当我们可以局部使用它或实际谈论真正导致腐烂的原因时，为什么我们要系统地摄入具有所有这些潜在风险的东西呢？
If fluoridation worked, cavities wouldn't be the top disease in our country, in our children.
如果氟化物有效，蛀牙就不会成为我们国家和孩子们的头号疾病。
And many worry, well, if we take it from the water, decay may go up.
许多人担心，如果我们把它从水中取出，腐烂可能会加剧。
And it may.
也有可能。
They did this in Calgary, Canada, where decay rates went up.
他们在加拿大卡尔加里进行了这项研究，那里的腐烂率有所上升。
But then if you actually look at the data, the decay rates were already going up when they removed it, but they only show you the data that they kind of want to show you for that.
但如果你真正查看数据，当他们删除数据时，衰减率已经上升，但他们只向你显示他们想向你展示的数据。
But again, it's a risk-benefit analysis.
但同样，这是一个风险收益分析。
I think dentists tend to be too focused on teeth.
我认为牙医往往过于关注牙齿。
And so you mentioned, if they say it's good for me, I'll do it.
所以你提到，如果他们说这对我有好处，我就会这么做。
Well, good for what?
嗯，有什么用呢？
Good for your teeth or good for your whole body, or good for your brain?
对你的牙齿有好处，对你的整个身体有好处，还是对你的大脑有好处？
And I think that should be an individual choice.
我认为这应该是个人的选择。
As a parent, do I want to choose one-quarter less cavity in my child, or do I want to preserve their optimal brain development?
作为父母，我是想选择让孩子少四分之一的蛀牙，还是想保持他们最佳的大脑发育？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The data that show deficits on par with what one sees with lead exposure, that's the most striking-
数据显示的赤字与铅暴露的情况相当，这是最引人注目的——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
thing to me.
对我来说事。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And I'm a dentist.
我是一名牙医。
I was trained to fix teeth.
我接受过矫正牙齿的训练。
I can fix a one-quarter cavity in a tooth.
我可以修复牙齿四分之一的蛀牙。
I can't fix a developing brain.
我无法修复正在发育的大脑。
We have one shot to develop a brain.
我们有一次机会发育大脑。
We have one shot to grow a face.
我们有一次机会长出一张脸。
It's really important.
这真的很重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I really appreciate you taking us through the full arc of the history of it.
嗯，我真的很感谢你带我们回顾了它的完整历史。
I think it's extremely important that people take that in so they can start to form their own opinions.
我认为人们接受这一点非常重要，这样他们才能开始形成自己的观点。
And you pointed out a number of logical flaws in just the way the whole system is arranged right now, which is this mass treatment of everybody with a potent chemical, especially given the amount of water that people drink and cook with, et cetera, without their consent.
你指出了整个系统目前的安排方式存在一些逻辑缺陷，即用强效化学物质对每个人进行大规模处理，特别是考虑到人们在未经同意的情况下饮用和做饭等的水量。
And-
还有——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And without a risk assessment.
并且没有进行风险评估。
So your low decay rate, I might be a really high decay rate.
所以你的衰减率很低，我的衰减率可能很高。
You don't need anything extra.
你不需要任何额外的东西。
Your diet, your balance, your microbiome's great.
你的饮食、你的平衡、你的微生物组都很棒。
I'm not eating well.
我吃得不好。
My hygiene's terrible.
我的卫生很糟糕。
We can't just blanketly be treating everyone the same.
我们不能一概而论地对待每个人。
We're supposed to be doing risk assessments.
我们应该进行风险评估。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, LMNT.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 LMNT。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need but nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，但没有您不需要的。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的比例都正确，但不含糖。
Proper hydration is critical for optimal brain and body function.
适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体的最佳功能至关重要。
Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish cognitive and physical performance.
即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低认知和身体表现。
It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.
获得充足的电解质也很重要。
The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are vital for the functioning of all the cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.
电解质（钠、镁和钾）对于体内所有细胞（尤其是神经元或神经细胞）的功能至关重要。
Drinking LMNT dissolved in water makes it extremely easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.
饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT 可以非常轻松地确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。
To make sure that I'm getting proper amounts of hydration and electrolytes, I dissolve one packet of LMNT in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I wake up in the morning, and I drink that basically first thing in the morning.
为了确保我获得适量的水合作用和电解质，当我早上醒来时，我将一包 LMNT 溶解在大约 16 至 32 盎司的水中，并且我基本上早上第一件事就是喝它。
I also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and therefore losing a lot of water and electrolytes.
我还会在进行任何体育锻炼时饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT，尤其是在炎热的天气里，因为我会大量出汗，从而失去大量的水和电解质。
They have a bunch of different great-tasting flavors of LMNT.
他们有多种不同口味的 LMNT。
They have watermelon, citrus, et cetera.
他们有西瓜、柑橘等。
Frankly, I love them all.
坦白说，我爱他们所有人。
If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with the purchase of any LMNT drink mix.
如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman，购买任何 LMNT 混合饮料即可领取免费 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。
Okay, so I think that pretty much puts fluoride in a, not in a box, let's say on the shelf for all of us to look at.
好吧，我认为氟化物几乎是放在一个盒子里，而不是放在盒子里，比如说放在架子上供我们所有人查看。
I think this is going to be a very important aspect of public health in the year to three years to come with this new administration and Bobby Kennedy paying a lot of attention to fluoride.
我认为，随着新一届政府和鲍比·肯尼迪对氟化物的高度关注，这将成为未来一到三年公共卫生的一个非常重要的方面。
And I really like what you said about trying to remove the political aspects of this.
我真的很喜欢你所说的试图消除其中的政治因素。
If this becomes a blue versus red, left versus right thing, we're never going to get to the heart of the matter.
如果这变成了蓝色与红色、左与右的争斗，我们就永远无法触及问题的核心。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that would be really sad, and the ones that would really suffer would be kids.
这真的很令人悲伤，而真正受苦的将是孩子们。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Kids.
孩子们。
The children, yeah.
孩子们，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So a nonpartisan look at this, which is how I heard everything that you said, just seems really critical.
因此，从无党派角度来看，这就是我听到你所说的一切的方式，这似乎非常重要。
Where are they getting the fluoride?
他们从哪里获得氟化物？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So water fluoridation, the fluoride that they get is a byproduct of the phosphate fertilizer industry, and it's called hydrofluorosilicic acid.
所以水氟化，他们得到的氟化物是磷肥工业的副产品，它被称为氢氟硅酸。
So as a byproduct of the phosphate fertilizer industry, it's considered a hazardous waste, and it's very expensive to dispose of.
因此，作为磷肥工业的副产品，它被认为是危险废物，而且处理起来非常昂贵。
But they have found that if diluted, in theory, it's an acid, first of all, so if it's put into our water system, it is so diluted that it becomes safe.
但他们发现，如果稀释，理论上它首先是一种酸，所以如果它进入我们的水系统，它会被稀释到变得安全。
But I will say everyone can go research this and look at it themselves, but it does come in cement bags with skull and crossbones on the front, and they do have to wear hazmat suits to put it into our water.
但我想说的是，每个人都可以去研究一下，自己看看，但它确实装在水泥袋里，前面有骷髅和交叉骨，而且他们必须穿着防护服才能把它放进我们的水里。
They're supposed to titrate it.
他们应该滴定它。
And I think what's interesting, we're supposed to target 0.7 milligrams per liter.
我认为有趣的是，我们的目标应该是每升 0.7 毫克。
I've been involved in some educational campaigns and have tested communities surrounding Portland.
我参与了一些教育活动，并对波特兰周边的社区进行了测试。
It's very hard to keep it in range.
很难将其保持在范围内。
And so there are some communities testing as high, we've seen, as 2.2 milligrams per liter, which definitely falls into, based on the science and literature, a more concerning zone for neurocognitive issues and other health issues.
因此，我们发现，有些社区的检测浓度高达 2.2 毫克/升，根据科学和文献，这绝对属于神经认知问题和其他健康问题更令人担忧的区域。
So if you're concerned, you can call your local water bureau, municipality.
因此，如果您担心，可以致电当地水务局、市政府。
I will say, I don't think the federal government's going to have much control over this.
我想说，我认为联邦政府对此不会有太多控制权。
It would be nice if the EPA stepped in.
如果 EPA 介入就好了。
They have appealed, by the way.
顺便说一句，他们已经上诉。
But it will come down to more on the state level and local level, and we're already seeing states like Florida and Utah have run it through and initially done a "we're going to ban this as a mandatory thing in our state." And I think it's North Dakota, Kentucky.
但这将更多地在州一级和地方一级进行，我们已经看到佛罗里达州和犹他州等州已经实施了这一举措，并最初做了“我们将在我们州将其作为强制措施禁止”。我认为是北达科他州、肯塔基州。
There's other states picking this up, too, and other communities that are removing it or not adding it to their water.
其他州也开始采用这种做法，其他社区也正在将其去除或不将其添加到水中。
So it's an interesting time to observe all of this.
所以现在是观察这一切的有趣时刻。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Super interesting.
超级有趣。
I will resist the temptation to ask questions about why it sounds like mostly red states are the ones doing this as opposed to blue states, although Portland is in a blue state.
我会抵制住问问题的诱惑，为什么听起来大多数红色州都是这样做的，而不是蓝色州，尽管波特兰处于蓝色州。
Portland's traditionally-
波特兰的传统——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Blue city, for sure
蓝色之城，肯定的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
blue city.
蓝色的城市。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Right.
正确的。
Blue city in a-
蓝色的城市在-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Red state.
红色状态。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oregon went red this last election?
俄勒冈州上次选举变成红色？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
The city's makeup, it's kind of like many states.
这个城市的妆容，有点像许多州。
So Eugene, Portland-
所以尤金，波特兰-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
Bend tend to be pretty blue.
弯曲往往是相当蓝色的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And I think the surrounding is more conservative.
而且我觉得周围的环境比较保守。
But no, it's shifted a bit, but not enough to shift out of voting-
但不，它改变了一点，但还不足以改变投票-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay
好的
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
liberal.
自由派。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All right.
好吧。
Well, we'll do another episode in 2090 about politics.
好吧，我们将在 2090 年制作另一集有关政治的节目。
Meanwhile, back to the oral microbiome and otherwise.
同时，回到口腔微生物组和其他方面。
I'm very interested in the relationship between oral health and what you described as fertility, pregnancy, and hormones.
我对口腔健康与你所描述的生育、怀孕和激素之间的关系非常感兴趣。
And obviously, hormones can be about men or women, but let's talk about oral health and fertility.
显然，荷尔蒙可能与男性或女性有关，但我们来谈谈口腔健康和生育能力。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What, if any, knowledge is there about how the oral microbiome or oral health would be impacting egg health, fertility, ovulation, ovarian reserve?
关于口腔微生物组或口腔健康如何影响卵子健康、生育力、排卵、卵巢储备的知识（如果有的话）有哪些？
Is that the sort of the level that the regulation of fertility is thought to occur?
这就是人们认为的生育调节水平吗？
What's known about the link?
关于该链接有哪些已知信息？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
So again, it ties back to that translocation and creating an immune response and inflammation, as well as the endotoxins that are released.
因此，它又与这种易位有关，并产生免疫反应和炎症，以及释放的内毒素。
With men particularly, they're seeing increased challenges with sperm motility and sperm mobility as gum disease and periodontal pathogens increase, and again, probably it has to do with the inflammation.
特别是对于男性来说，随着牙龈疾病和牙周病原体的增加，他们的精子活力和精子流动性面临着越来越大的挑战，而且这可能与炎症有关。
And with women, we can show that women take about two months longer to become pregnant.
对于女性，我们可以证明女性需要大约两个月的时间才能怀孕。
It does affect ovulation, egg quality, but also we know it can lead to miscarriages and low term birth, low weight birth, preterm birth, and just pregnancy complications as well.
它确实会影响排卵、卵子质量，但我们也知道它会导致流产和低足月分娩、低体重分娩、早产以及妊娠并发症。
And so we are finding oral bacteria in the placenta.
所以我们在胎盘中发现了口腔细菌。
We're finding there's different microbiomes everywhere now.
我们发现现在到处都有不同的微生物群。
The breast has a microbiome.
乳房有一个微生物组。
The placenta has a microbiome.
胎盘有微生物组。
And so oral bacteria can end up in many of these places and just create that cascade of inflammatory events.
因此，口腔细菌最终可能会出现在这些地方，并引发一连串的炎症事件。
And so certainly it's an exciting time to be alive because of all the research happening, and right now it's, again, not causal.
因此，由于所有的研究正在进行，这无疑是一个令人兴奋的时刻，而现在，这又不是因果关系。
There's a lot of correlation, but I would love to see fertility clinics focusing more on oral health.
有很多相关性，但我希望看到生育诊所更多地关注口腔健康。
How amazing would it be if they started testing the microbiome of patients, and if they realize they're really high in P.
如果他们开始测试患者的微生物组，并且意识到他们的丙酸杆菌含量确实很高，那将是多么令人惊奇。
gingivalis or F.
牙龈炎或F.
nucleatum and they eradicated or lessened that bacteria?
nucleatum，他们消灭或减少了这种细菌？
It'd be interesting to see how pregnancy and fertility outcomes would change and possibly improve.
看看怀孕和生育结果将如何改变并可能得到改善将会很有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
What are some of the mechanical as opposed to chemical things that we can do to improve our oral health?
我们可以采取哪些机械而非化学措施来改善口腔健康？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we were all taught brush and floss twice a day.
所以我们每天都要教两次刷牙和使用牙线。
I even have a colleague who can be caught in the bathroom brushing his teeth after lunch.
我什至有一个同事，他午饭后在浴室里刷牙，被拍到。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Great.
太棒了。
I should try it.
我应该尝试一下。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So he's brushing three times a day.
所以他一天刷三遍。
I don't know what motivated that.
我不知道是什么动机。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I do that, too.
我也这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you?
你呢？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Great.
伟大的。
So what's the deal with brushing?
那么刷机有什么关系呢？
Let's say kind of like exercise.
让我们说有点像运动。
Let's say if someone were going to only brush once-
假设有人只刷一次——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a day, better to brush in the morning or at night?
一天，早上刷好还是晚上刷好？
Obviously, people should brush twice a day or more.
显然，人们应该每天刷牙两次或更多。
But if one could only brush once a day, would it be morning or night?
但如果一天只能刷一次，是早上还是晚上呢？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I guide parents on this a lot because brushing a child's teeth can be challenging.
我经常在这方面指导父母，因为给孩子刷牙可能很困难。
Nighttime is always the most important.
夜间始终是最重要的。
One, you're removing the food particulate matter from the day away.
第一，您要清除当天的食物颗粒物。
You're disrupting that biofilm so that you're not sitting, sleeping all night, eight, 10, 12 hours if you're a child, with that sticky Potentially dysbiotic biofilm on your teeth, and then you add in maybe your mouth breathing, that's going to shift the microbiome and drop the pH more.
你破坏了生物膜，这样你就不会坐着，整夜睡觉，八小时，十小时，十二小时（如果你是个孩子），牙齿上粘着潜在的菌群失调生物膜，然后你可能会用嘴呼吸，这会改变微生物组并进一步降低pH值。
So it's really nice to go to bed with clean teeth.
因此，带着干净的牙齿上床睡觉真是太好了。
So I suggest focusing on the nighttime.
所以我建议重点关注夜间。
What does drive me a little bonkers is the fact that we tend to focus so much on brushing, but we leave out flossing a lot of the conversation, so thank you for mentioning that.
让我有点抓狂的是，我们往往过于关注刷牙，却忽略了使用牙线的很多对话，所以谢谢你提到这一点。
If you read children's books, you'll see they all say, "Go brush your teeth," but never floss.
如果你读过儿童读物，你会发现他们都说“去刷牙”，但千万不要用牙线。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So we need a revamp there.
所以我们需要在那里进行改造。
But most cavities that I see in children, and this translates to the adult population as well, are in between the teeth, or interproximally in the molars.
但我在儿童中看到的大多数蛀牙（这也适用于成年人）都位于牙齿之间或臼齿的邻间处。
And it's really common.
这确实很常见。
So a lot of parents will bring their kids in, they think they've been doing everything correctly.
所以很多家长会把孩子带进来，他们认为自己做的一切都是正确的。
They haven't been flossing quite yet.
他们还没有使用牙线。
And we take X-rays for the first time, and the children have eight cavities, which sounds like so many, but it's really common because we have eight molars.
我们第一次拍X光片，孩子们有八个蛀牙，听起来很多，但这确实很常见，因为我们有八颗臼齿。
And so it happens between the teeth where you're eating those Goldfish crackers, those pretzels, those chips.
所以它发生在你吃金鱼饼干、椒盐卷饼、薯片时的牙齿之间。
They get stuck in between the teeth, the bacteria come to feed, the acid gets released, and it just sits there hour after hour, day after day, arguably week after week if you're never flossing.
它们被卡在牙齿之间，细菌开始进食，酸被释放，如果你从不使用牙线，它就一小时又一小时、日复一日、甚至一周又一周地呆在那里。
So I really like flossing to be part of the routine, too.
所以我也非常喜欢使用牙线作为日常生活的一部分。
Again, if you can only do it once a day, that's great.
再说一次，如果你每天只能做一次，那就太好了。
That's fine.
没关系。
Do it at night.
晚上做。
I like to floss first, then brush.
我喜欢先用牙线，然后刷牙。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
You're dislodging the food in between and kind of brushing it away.
你要把中间的食物移走，然后把它刷掉。
There's actually studies to support this, too, that order.
实际上也有研究支持这个顺序。
However, beggars can't be choosers.
然而，乞丐不能挑挑拣拣。
Just do it.
去做就对了。
Some people get a suction cup mirror.
有些人会得到一个吸盘镜子。
They'll do it in the shower.
他们会在淋浴时做。
Some people do it in their commute in the car.
有些人在开车上下班时这样做。
I'm not going to be picky about it.
我不会对此挑剔。
I will also say, as we age, flossing doesn't always cut it by itself.
我还要说，随着年龄的增长，使用牙线本身并不总是有效。
So think about a little string of floss.
所以考虑一下一小串牙线。
We want to put it between the teeth, and they suggest you do a C and a backward C.
我们想把它放在牙齿之间，他们建议你做一个C和一个向后的C。
You're scraping the sides of the teeth to disrupt that biofilm.
您正在刮擦牙齿的侧面以破坏生物膜。
But as we age, we all lose a little bone, so you get this little pocket where that string isn't cleaning the bacteria out of, and that's where a waterpik can come in.
但随着年龄的增长，我们都会失去一点骨头，所以你会得到一个小口袋，绳子无法清除其中的细菌，而这就是水枪可以进来的地方。
And so if you really want to be an overachiever, I do love a little waterpiking, too.
所以，如果你真的想成为一个优秀的人，我也很喜欢玩水枪。
I personally will alternate.
我个人会交替。
So one night I might floss, the next night I might waterpik.
所以有一天晚上我可能会用牙线，第二天晚上我可能会用水刺。
This works really well in patients that can't put their hands in the mouth.
这对于无法将手放入口中的患者非常有效。
Maybe they have an aversion to that.
也许他们对此感到厌恶。
Sensory children often will struggle with flossing, so waterpiks can be fun.
敏感的孩子常常很难使用牙线，所以水刺很有趣。
You can do it in the bathtub so it doesn't get totally messy, or in the shower.
您可以在浴缸中进行，这样就不会变得完全混乱，也可以在淋浴中进行。
They make cordless versions.
他们生产无线版本。
But I can't overemphasize how important flossing is.
但我无论如何强调使用牙线的重要性都不为过。
That interproximal cleaning, it stimulates the gum tissue, and you're less likely to have gum disease as a result.
邻间清洁会刺激牙龈组织，从而降低患牙龈疾病的可能性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What about those little toothpicks with the little sling of floss-
那些带有小牙线吊带的小牙签怎么样——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
The trees?
树木？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
across?
跨越？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Oh.
哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The hard picks that-
艰难的选择是——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Floss picks.
牙线镐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Floss picks.
牙线镐。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
They're great, especially in kids.
它们很棒，尤其是对于孩子们来说。
It's the only way to floss a child's teeth, first of all.
首先，这是用牙线清洁孩子牙齿的唯一方法。
So I want parents, as soon as teeth touch, they should be flossing.
所以我希望父母们，牙齿一接触，就应该用牙线。
That could be the anterior teeth.
那可能是前牙。
Our jaws are shrinking.
我们的下巴正在缩小。
Our teeth are crowded.
我们的牙齿很拥挤。
It's rare for me to see a child with space in their front teeth.
我很少看到门牙有空隙的孩子。
That is how we should be developing because adult teeth are wider than baby teeth.
这就是我们应该如何发育的原因，因为恒牙比乳牙宽。
They need more room to come in.
他们需要更多的空间来进来。
But very often we're crowded.
但很多时候我们都很拥挤。
So anywhere teeth touch, we should be flossing.
因此，无论牙齿接触到哪里，我们都应该使用牙线。
But usually around the age of two and a half, the molars are in touching, and parents look at me like I'm crazy, but we really should be flossing.
但通常在两岁半左右，臼齿就会相互接触，父母会像我疯子一样看着我，但我们确实应该使用牙线。
And so if you start some of these behaviors early, it becomes easier and easier.
因此，如果你尽早开始其中一些行为，事情就会变得越来越容易。
We know kids that floss become adults who floss.
我们知道使用牙线的孩子长大后也会使用牙线。
But also floss picks are fine for adults, too.
但牙线棒也适合成年人。
Some people have big hands.
有些人的手很大。
It's hard to get floss in or-
很难用牙线插入或者-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I have to use them.
是的，我必须使用它们。
I can't get into my-
我无法进入我的-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
The dexterity.
灵巧性。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I can't get my hands into-
我的手伸不进去——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
my mouth.
我的嘴。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
They're fine.
他们很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
You just want to try not to just go straight up and down, just kind of angle if you can.
你只是想尝试不要直接上下移动，如果可以的话，只是以某种角度移动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And then maybe a waterpik, too.
然后也许还有水画。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I was told by my dentist, soft toothbrush.
我的牙医告诉我，软牙刷。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I tend to get in there and like-
因为我倾向于进入那里并喜欢-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Oh, you're an aggressor
哦，你是一个侵略者
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I'm hearing all this stuff about how the oral health is so important for the brain, and that could lead some people, including me, to get in there and just start scrubbing and scrubbing and trying to get everything out of there, and that's not the right approach, right?
我听到很多关于口腔健康对大脑如此重要的说法，这可能会导致包括我在内的一些人进入口腔并开始擦洗，并试图将其中的所有东西都清除掉，这不是正确的方法，对吧？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Paintbrush stroke, very gentle.
画笔的笔触，非常温柔。
So you want to do gentle, circular movements.
所以你要做轻柔的圆周运动。
You don't want to wear away your enamel.
你不想磨损你的牙釉质。
This is also important.
这也很重要。
Many people will eat and then run to the bathroom and brush their teeth.
很多人会吃完饭然后跑到卫生间刷牙。
Every time we eat, our teeth demineralize a little bit, right?
每次我们吃东西时，我们的牙齿就会脱矿一点，对吗？
Remember I mentioned it-
记得我提到过——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
takes about 20 or 30 minutes for that remineralization to begin.
再矿化开始大约需要 20 或 30 分钟。
So if you're immediately going to brush, your bristles could be damaging your enamel and just wearing it away and creating little marks, and it could lead to sensitivity, recession.
因此，如果您立即刷牙，刷毛可能会损坏牙釉质，磨损牙釉质并留下小痕迹，这可能会导致敏感、衰退。
So if you can, try to wait 20 or 30 minutes after you eat or drink to brush.
因此，如果可以的话，尽量在进食或喝水后等待 20 或 30 分钟再刷牙。
This includes with vomiting.
这包括呕吐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
The same thing.
同样的事情。
So we all want to brush our teeth after we maybe get sick.
所以我们都想在生病后刷牙。
Try to just maybe rinse your mouth, maybe with a little baking soda.
试着漱口，也许用一点小苏打。
A lot of this is perfect world, okay?
很多都是完美的世界，好吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And I get it, but just I like people to have the information.
我明白了，但我只是希望人们了解这些信息。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You said marking, and I meant to ask something earlier, not to return us to the fluoride conversation, but you said that the person who initially had the idea to include fluoride-
你说标记，我本来想早点问一些事情，而不是让我们回到氟化物的对话，但你说最初有想法加入氟化物的人-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in treatment of tooth decay noticed that kids' teeth had dark spots on them.
在治疗蛀牙时发现孩子的牙齿上有黑斑。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Does fluoride cause darkening of the teeth?
氟化物会导致牙齿变黑吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It can.
可以。
So I believe it was his pediatric and adult patients.
所以我相信这是他的儿科和成人患者。
It was just this whole community had these spotted teeth.
只是整个社区都有这些有斑点的牙齿。
So that is something called dental fluorosis.
这就是所谓的氟斑牙。
Spots and markings on the teeth can mean many different things.
牙齿上的斑点和标记可能有很多不同的含义。
One is fluorosis.
一是氟中毒。
One could be hypoplastic enamel.
其中一种可能是牙釉质发育不全。
I think we should touch on that.
我认为我们应该谈谈这一点。
So fluorosis can be mild, moderate, or severe.
因此，氟中毒可以是轻度、中度或重度。
When it gets more severe, that is where it can be dark, spotted, orangey brown.
当它变得更严重时，它可能会变成黑色、有斑点、橙棕色。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mild fluorosis usually is more brighter white.
轻度氟中毒通常呈更亮的白色。
You often see it on the-
你经常在网上看到它——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
incisal tips or on the cusp tips of the molars.
切牙尖或磨牙的尖尖上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's not a very attractive feature.
这不是一个非常有吸引力的功能。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's not, and it is a sign that you've had excessive fluoride.
事实并非如此，这表明您摄入了过量的氟化物。
And I will say 40% of teenagers now have dental fluorosis.
我想说，现在 40% 的青少年患有氟斑牙。
That very likely means they also have some degree of skeletal fluorosis as well.
这很可能意味着他们也患有某种程度的氟骨症。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So for all the challenges that the debate around fluoridization of water has, I am willing to bet a significant amount of my savings that this issue will end up being the linchpin issue.
因此，尽管围绕水氟化的争论面临着所有挑战，我愿意用我的大量积蓄打赌，这个问题最终将成为关键问题。
It might seem crazy.
这可能看起来很疯狂。
Here's this substance that may or may not be safe that we're ingesting for various reasons, and there's a history there, which you beautifully described.
这是一种我们因各种原因摄入的物质，它可能安全也可能不安全，而且那里有一段历史，你对此进行了精彩的描述。
But having been in this public-facing health education game for a little while now, for the typical person who's like, "Yeah, whatever.
但在这个面向公众的健康教育游戏中已经有一段时间了，对于那些典型的人来说，“是的，无论如何。
I've been drinking water and I feel fine," or, "My kids feels fine," or, "There's nothing I can do about it now.
我一直在喝水，我感觉很好，”或者，“我的孩子感觉很好，”或者，“我现在无能为力。
They're 15.
他们15岁。
Maybe they're 10 IQ points down from where they would be." This is what I find so interesting about human psychology.
也许他们的智商比应有的水平低了 10 点。”这就是我发现人类心理学如此有趣的地方。
If you tell people, "Did you know that fluoride not only might have some neurodevelopmental impact, it's probably getting into your bones just like it's getting into your teeth.
如果你告诉人们，“你知道吗，氟化物不仅可能对神经发育产生一些影响，它可能会进入你的骨骼，就像它进入你的牙齿一样。
But you know those spots on your teeth, those white spots or dark spots that are really unattractive?
但你知道牙齿上的那些斑点，那些白点或黑点真的很不美观吗？
That's because of fluoride." Now you've got everybody.
那是因为氟化物。”现在你已经拥有了所有人。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Aesthetics.
美学。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Aesthetics.
美学。
And it's either a shame or whatever that this is the way that people are.
这要么是一种耻辱，要么无论如何，这就是人们的生活方式。
But the moment that people realize that something that either is good for them or was intended to be good for them might be bad for their long-term health, you sort of got them hooked.
但是，当人们意识到某些对他们有益或本来对他们有益的东西可能对他们的长期健康有害时，你就让他们着迷了。
But these long-term correlations are very hard to motivate human behavior.
但这些长期相关性很难激励人类行为。
But those white spots, nobody wants those.
但那些白点，没人想要。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Dark spots on the teeth, nobody wants those.
牙齿上有黑斑，没有人想要那些。
And I'd be willing to bet that that becomes one of the key issues.
我愿意打赌这将成为关键问题之一。
And if people go, "Oh, listen, it's actually making my teeth uglier."
如果人们说，“哦，听着，这实际上让我的牙齿变得更难看。”
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"Maybe stronger, but uglier," I bet you this becomes a wedge in the conversation.
“也许更强大，但更丑陋，”我敢打赌这会成为谈话中的一个楔子。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
That will come from the public.
这将来自公众。
But I will tell you, I have dentists, when I speak as I do about water fluoridation and fluorosis specifically, say, "Well, it's just aesthetics.
但我会告诉你，我有牙医，当我具体谈论水氟化和氟中毒时，会说：“嗯，这只是美观。
At least their teeth are strong." They're making the decision for the patient.
至少他们的牙齿很坚固。”他们正在为患者做出决定。
And I think that's not our right as providers to make that decision for someone.
我认为作为提供者，我们没有权利为某人做出决定。
But it's really common.
但这确实很常见。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Fluorosis is very common.
氟中毒很常见。
I've even seen more recent data saying as high as 60%, but 40 is kind of the standard number that we go with of teenagers with fluorosis.
我什至看到最近的数据说高达 60%，但 40 是我们对氟中毒青少年的标准数字。
There is something called hypoplastic enamel, and this is something I'm very passionate about.
有一种东西叫做牙釉质发育不全，这是我非常热衷的东西。
This is undermineralized enamel, and I believe it's a silent epidemic in children.
这是牙釉质遭到破坏，我相信这是儿童中一种无声的流行病。
I see more and more children whose teeth erupt, and they're mottled and chalky, and some are so severe they're crumbling.
我看到越来越多的孩子长出牙齿，牙齿呈斑驳状、白垩状，有的严重到牙齿都碎了。
And I've seen a big uptick in this in my 20-year career, and the data is starting to show this as well.
在我 20 年的职业生涯中，我看到了这一点的大幅上升，数据也开始表明这一点。
And so unfortunately, so many parents, their kids will get decay.
不幸的是，很多父母的孩子都会腐烂。
It's really common, and they get shamed and blamed like, "What are you feeding them?
这真的很常见，他们会感到羞耻和指责，比如“你给他们吃什么？
You're not brushing and flossing their teeth.
你没有给他们刷牙和用牙线。
You're neglecting them." Or they're told to stop breastfeeding because that's what's causing the issue.
你忽视了他们。”或者他们被告知停止母乳喂养，因为这就是导致问题的原因。
But it's really that the teeth, the enamel didn't form properly, and it's not as acid-resistant.
但实际上，牙齿、牙釉质没有正常形成，而且不耐酸。
It's more fragile.
它更脆弱。
It's more pickup sticks than the Lincoln Logs, okay?
它比林肯原木还多，好吗？
And I believe, and colleagues globally agree, that it's very likely due to all the mineral deficiencies that we're seeing globally and the vitamin D deficiency that we're seeing globally.
我相信，全球同事都同意，这很可能是由于我们在全球范围内看到的矿物质缺乏和维生素 D 缺乏造成的。
We're inside all the time.
我们一直在里面。
We're not outside.
我们不在外面。
All the junk light that we're getting, the blue light.
我们收到的所有垃圾光，蓝光。
It can also be from environmental toxins, high fevers, viruses.
它还可能来自环境毒素、高烧、病毒。
But it's a real concern, and so many children are having to undergo general anesthesia now to get their teeth fixed.
但这是一个真正令人担忧的问题，许多孩子现在不得不接受全身麻醉来修复牙齿。
The study I read said about 100,000 to 150,000 a year for a preventable issue.
我读到的研究表明，每年大约有 100,000 到 150,000 起可预防的问题。
There's risks to general anesthesia, and this is where I do love to consider a more conservative approach, like can we remineralize these teeth?
全身麻醉存在风险，这就是我确实喜欢考虑采取更保守方法的地方，比如我们可以对这些牙齿进行再矿化吗？
Are there strategies that we can do to even just kick the can so the child's older so they could sit for treatment so that we're not putting so many children under anesthesia?
我们是否可以采取一些策略，甚至只是踢罐子，让孩子长大，这样他们就可以坐下来接受治疗，这样我们就不会让这么多孩子处于麻醉状态？
Because I don't think we have the data for all the long-term potential cumulative effects.
因为我认为我们没有所有长期潜在累积影响的数据。
And we talked about this earlier.
我们之前讨论过这一点。
It's not just one exposure.
这不仅仅是一次曝光。
It's not just one exposure from an X-ray or one exposure from fluoride or one anesthesia exposure necessarily, but it's that cumulative effect that we don't have enough data on.
这不仅仅是一次 X 射线暴露、一次氟化物暴露或一次麻醉暴露，而是我们没有足够数据的累积效应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Going back to this relationship between the oral microbiome, oral health, and hormones, and focusing specifically on female hormones, the menstrual/ovulatory cycle that occurs each month, as well as perimenopause, menopause.
回到口腔微生物组、口腔健康和激素之间的关系，特别关注女性激素、每月发生的月经/排卵周期，以及围绝经期、更年期。
About half of our listeners are women.
我们的听众中约有一半是女性。
I'm curious Are there certain phases of the menstrual cycle or certain phases of perimenopause, menopause, or prior to it, in which women should pay particular attention to their oral health?
我很好奇女性是否在月经周期的某些阶段或围绝经期、更年期或之前的某些阶段应特别注意口腔健康？
Is there a known association with when estrogen is rising or falling-
雌激素何时上升或下降是否存在已知的关联？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that the oral microbiome tends to be more vulnerable, and they perhaps should spend a bit more attention on their oral health?
口腔微生物组往往更脆弱，他们也许应该多花一点注意力在口腔健康上？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
So we see it both ways, rising and falling.
所以我们看到它是双向的，上升和下降。
So around puberty, we'll see changes to gum health, so a lot of young girls will have more gingivitis or gum inflammation and certainly, if they're on oral contraception, that can change things, too.
因此，在青春期左右，我们会看到牙龈健康的变化，因此许多年轻女孩会出现更多的牙龈炎或牙龈炎症，当然，如果她们服用口服避孕药，这也会改变情况。
And they'll go into the dentist and be accused of maybe not brushing and flossing appropriately, but it's really a hormonal issue, so it's important to know that.
他们会去看牙医，并被指责可能没有正确刷牙和使用牙线，但这确实是一个荷尔蒙问题，所以了解这一点很重要。
As well as women who are pregnant.
怀孕的女性也是如此。
Pregnancy gingivitis affects 50 to 70% of women.
妊娠牙龈炎影响 50% 至 70% 的女性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
50 to 70?
50到70？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's a lot.
很多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And it usually-
而它通常——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Most
大多数
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
goes away once you have the baby, and you've gotten through some breastfeeding and hormones regulate.
一旦你有了孩子，并且你已经经历了一些母乳喂养并且荷尔蒙得到调节，这种情况就会消失。
But it's important to know that.
但了解这一点很重要。
You can also have relaxin, it helps us prepare for childbirth, but it can shift teeth.
您还可以服用松弛素，它可以帮助我们为分娩做好准备，但它可以使牙齿移动。
We have a ligament around our teeth, much like we have ligaments in our pelvis, and that periodontal ligament is impacted by relaxin, so you can see teeth shift and move, and women may sometimes say, "My bite is different now.
我们的牙齿周围有韧带，就像我们骨盆里的韧带一样，牙周韧带受到松弛素的影响，所以你可以看到牙齿移位和移动，女性有时可能会说，“我的咬合现在不一样了。
My gum health is different." So it's very important preconception, and certainly during pregnancy, to be really on top of your oral hygiene as best as possible and see a dentist regularly.
我的牙龈健康状况有所不同。”因此，在怀孕前，尤其是在怀孕期间，尽可能保持口腔卫生并定期看牙医是非常重要的。
And then perimenopause and menopause, there's a whole slew of issues that happen to women, and from an oral health perspective with hormonal shifts, decreases in estrogen and progesterone can impact collagen synthesis, so more TMD, more headaches.
然后是围绝经期和更年期，女性会出现一系列问题，从口腔健康的角度来看，随着荷尔蒙的变化，雌激素和黄体酮的减少会影响胶原蛋白的合成，所以更多的TMD，更多的头痛。
Certainly gum inflammation, dry mouth, burning mouth syndrome, more bad breath, taste changes, too.
当然还有牙龈发炎、口干、灼口综合症、口臭增多、味觉改变等。
And so it's just so powerful to be able to have these conversations with women rather than just say, "Well, just use this product.
因此，能够与女性进行这些对话而不仅仅是说：“好吧，就使用这个产品吧。
Brush and floss more." Maybe we could talk, speaking of it from a hormonal lens, like is hormone replacement therapy appropriate for you, or how can we help support you in other ways?
多刷牙和用牙线。”也许我们可以从荷尔蒙的角度来谈谈，比如荷尔蒙替代疗法是否适合您，或者我们如何以其他方式帮助支持您？
Maybe you should see the dentist every two or three months instead of every six months.
也许您应该每两三个月而不是每六个月看一次牙医。
And also just the mental health component to say, "Hey, this isn't something you're neglecting.
还有心理健康方面的内容，“嘿，这不是你忽视的事情。
This is a change your body's going through, and so how can we support you from a dental community?"
这是您的身体正在经历的变化，那么我们如何从牙科社区为您提供支持呢？”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Thanks for that.
谢谢你。
More and more, I'm getting asked questions on social media and elsewhere about how is this different for women versus men, and in particular, different phases of the cycle and perimenopause, menopause, and essentially the entire lifespan.
越来越多的人在社交媒体和其他地方问我问题，了解女性与男性有何不同，特别是周期的不同阶段、围绝经期、更年期，乃至整个生命周期。
So appreciate that.
所以很感激。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I get burning mouth question a lot, too, from my community.
我也从我的社区收到了很多令人恼火的问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's burning mouth?
嘴巴火辣辣的怎么办？
Sounds awful.
听起来很糟糕。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So your mouth feels metallic, and it truly feels burning, almost like itchy, I think.
所以你的嘴感觉像金属一样，而且真的感觉灼烧，几乎就像发痒，我想。
I haven't experienced it, but that's how it's described to me, or kind of like a dry mouth.
我没有经历过，但我是这么描述的，或者有点像口干舌燥。
It can be a sign of zinc deficiency or vitamin B deficiencies, and we can see changes in those with perimenopause and menopause.
这可能是缺锌或维生素 B 缺乏的征兆，我们可以在围绝经期和更年期的人身上看到变化。
I think it's important to know the mouth is the gateway into the body, and we can see nutritional deficiencies in the mouth as well.
我认为重要的是要知道口腔是进入身体的门户，我们也可以看到口腔中的营养缺乏。
So cracks in the corner of the lips can be a zinc deficiency.
所以唇角出现裂纹可能是缺锌。
It's the same with white striations on your fingernails.
指甲上的白色条纹也是如此。
That can be a zinc deficiency.
这可能是缺锌。
B vitamins can be burning mouth or geographic tongue is something people experience.
B族维生素可能会导致口腔灼热或地图样舌，这是人们经历过的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What is geographic tongue caused by?
地图舌是由什么引起的？
I have a family member who has it, and it's permanent-
我有一个家庭成员患有这种病，而且是永久性的-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because they're quite far along in their life now and still have it-
因为他们现在的生活已经很遥远了，而且仍然拥有它-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
from childhood.
从童年开始。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
We're told in dental school, it maybe has changed, but it's benign, and just tell patients to avoid citrus and acidic foods.
牙科学校告诉我们，它可能已经改变，但它是良性的，只是告诉患者避免柑橘和酸性食物。
It is cross-linked to latex allergy and psoriasis.
它与乳胶过敏和牛皮癣交联。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So it's a autoimmune issue.
所以这是一个自身免疫问题。
It can be a sign of nutritional deficiencies, usually zinc, B, or iron.
这可能是营养缺乏的征兆，通常是锌、B 或铁缺乏。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And also, it can be a sign of celiac, Crohn's, or a gut issue.
而且，它也可能是乳糜泻、克罗恩病或肠道问题的征兆。
Again, it's all connected.
再说一次，一切都是相连的。
And so a lot of times when kids see me, I will send them to a functional medicine doctor or a naturopath to rule that out.
所以很多时候当孩子们看到我时，我会把他们送到功能医学医生或自然疗法医生处以排除这种可能性。
And there's genetic predispositions, too.
还有遗传倾向。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As we progress further along in this conversation, these ideas pop to my mind that I'd never thought of before, because I don't tend to use them, like lip balms, lipstick.
随着我们在这次谈话中取得进一步进展，这些我以前从未想过的想法突然出现在我的脑海中，因为我不倾向于使用它们，比如润唇膏、口红。
I don't use lipstick.
我不使用口红。
I don't use lip balm.
我不使用润唇膏。
I suppose I've put one of those sunscreens when I went skiing or snowboarding years ago-
我想我几年前去滑雪或单板滑雪时就涂了其中一种防晒霜——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Same
一样
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
on my-- And now I'm wondering, was that just a terrible idea?
现在我想知道，这是一个糟糕的主意吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's better not to burn.
最好不要烧掉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But more often, people are going to use, but I suppose specifically lipsticks, are they safe for the oral microbiome?
但更常见的是，人们会使用，但我想特别是口红，它们对口腔微生物组安全吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Well, I don't think it's getting into your-- Hopefully you're not eating it that much, but we need to be mindful of our products.
嗯，我不认为它会进入你的——希望你没有吃那么多，但我们需要注意我们的产品。
There's petroleum-based products.
有石油基产品。
A lot of lipsticks, lip balms, they have nasty ingredients in them.
很多口红，润唇膏，里面都有令人讨厌的成分。
We're learning more and more, and they're not necessarily as regulated here from a cosmetic standpoint as they might be in the EU.
我们正在了解越来越多的信息，从表面的角度来看，它们在这里不一定像在欧盟那样受到监管。
So read your ingredients.
所以请阅读你的成分。
But a lot of petroleum-based products will actually cause more dryness, and it has a reverse effect, which is why people get addicted to ChapStick, I think.
但很多石油基产品实际上会导致更加干燥，而且会产生相反的效果，我认为这就是人们对 ChapStick 上瘾的原因。
Their lips dry out more.
他们的嘴唇更加干燥。
But when I see chronic dry lips, I'm thinking dehydration, and are you mouth breathing?
但是当我看到长期干燥的嘴唇时，我想到的是脱水，你用嘴呼吸吗？
Because when you mouth breathe, all the tissues dry out.
因为当你用嘴呼吸时，所有组织都会变干。
So if a kid comes in with chronically dried lips, I do wonder if they're a mouth breather.
因此，如果一个孩子进来时嘴唇长期干燥，我确实想知道他们是否用嘴呼吸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Another way to assess if you have a mouth breather on hand is, are you always asking someone in your life to chew with their mouth closed, especially kids?
评估您手头上是否有张口呼吸器的另一种方法是，您是否总是要求生活中的某人闭上嘴咀嚼，尤其是孩子？
So when we're chewing, we have to breathe.
所以当我们咀嚼时，我们必须呼吸。
So you should chew, lips closed, breathe through your nose.
所以你应该咀嚼，嘴唇闭上，用鼻子呼吸。
But if you can't because of an obstruction, deviated septum, inflamed nasal turbinates, you'll have that kid, his mouth's always open, and they tend not to chew enough.
但如果你因为阻塞、鼻中隔偏曲、鼻甲发炎而不能这样做，你就会生下那个孩子，他的嘴总是张着，而且他们往往咀嚼不够。
They kind of mash food and swallow it, because they f- They're worried about oxygenation.
他们会把食物捣碎然后吞下去，因为他们担心氧合。
They feel like they're going to choke.
他们感觉自己快要窒息了。
These kids tend to get picky eaters because they stay away from meat, carrots, apples, things you have to chew a lot, and they eat more chicken nuggets, mac and cheese, because you can just mash it and swallow it.
这些孩子往往会挑食，因为他们远离肉类、胡萝卜、苹果等需要大量咀嚼的东西，他们会吃更多的鸡块、通心粉和奶酪，因为你可以把它们捣碎然后吞下去。
That can be a sign of oral motor dysfunction in adults and kids.
这可能是成人和儿童口腔运动功能障碍的征兆。
So if you have a hard time chewing with your mouth closed, that's something you can explore and get help with.
因此，如果您闭嘴咀嚼有困难，您可以探索并获得帮助。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Should we be able to chew equally on both sides of our mouth?
我们应该能够用嘴的两侧均匀地咀嚼吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
You should chew equally on both sides of your mouth.
你应该用嘴的两侧均匀地咀嚼。
So if you're chewing just on one side, not only will you get hypertrophy of the muscle on that side, but it can cause a shift, especially in kids, of the way you're growing.
因此，如果您只用一侧咀嚼，不仅会导致该侧肌肉肥大，而且可能会导致您的生长方式发生变化，尤其是对于儿童而言。
But I would want to know why.
但我想知道为什么。
Why are you chewing that way?
你为什么这样咀嚼？
Is your occlusion or your bite off?
你的咬合是咬合还是咬合？
Are you avoiding a tooth because you're in pain?
您是否因为疼痛而避免拔牙？
It can be a bad habit.
这可能是一个坏习惯。
There's ways to retrain, but everything should be symmetrical.
重新训练的方法有很多，但一切都应该是对称的。
So you should kind of chew, chew.
所以你应该咀嚼，咀嚼。
Your tongue should move the bolus of food to the other side, chew, chew.
你的舌头应该把食物移到另一边，咀嚼，咀嚼。
So if you can't do that, it can be a sign of oral motor dysfunction, too.
因此，如果您做不到这一点，也可能是口腔运动功能障碍的征兆。
Maybe your tongue doesn't have good range of motion or mobility.
也许您的舌头没有良好的运动范围或灵活性。
Maybe you have a tongue tie or low tone.
也许你有舌系带短或语调低的问题。
So there's a lot that can go into that, and this is where seeing a myofunctional therapist could really help.
因此，有很多事情可以解决，这就是看肌功能治疗师真正有帮助的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You said it, so I'll have to ask.
你都这么说了，那我就得问问了。
Tongue tie, a few years ago, this was a controversial area.
舌系带，几年前，这是一个有争议的领域。
Tongue tie being the stretch of skin between the bottom of the tongue and the bottom of the, what is it?
舌系带是舌头底部和舌底部之间的皮肤，它是什么？
Bottom of the-
底部——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Floor of the mouth
口腔底
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
floor of the mouth.
嘴底。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
And this idea that in babies it should be cut.
以及婴儿应该被剪掉的想法。
Other people say it shouldn't be cut.
还有人说不应该剪掉。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then everyone starts looking at it, or did they cut it?
然后每个人都开始看它，还是他们把它剪掉了？
I think mine just seems to have naturally torn back some distance, but-
我想我的似乎只是自然地拉开了一段距离，但是——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
what's the deal with tongue tie?
舌系带短是怎么回事？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And should it be cut?
并且应该被砍掉吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
We're going into all the controversial conversations here.
我们将在这里讨论所有有争议的对话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'll take the heat for it.
我会为此承受热量。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So, that's called your frenum, okay?
那么，这就是所谓的系带，好吗？
So we all have a frenum.
所以我们都有系带。
It's the band of tissue that attaches our tongue to the floor of the mouth.
它是将我们的舌头连接到口腔底部的组织带。
We also have a labial frenum, and sometimes you have little buccal frenums up here in the vestibule, okay?
我们也有唇系带，有时在前庭也有小颊系带，好吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Near the cheek?
靠近脸颊？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
If you put your finger up in your mouth-
如果你把手指放进嘴里——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
you'll feel.
你会感觉到的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
You may have them, you may not.
你可能拥有它们，也可能没有。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they dried my teeth out for something once.
他们曾经把我的牙齿擦干过一次。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah, you see it stretches.
是的，你看到它延伸了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You pull it back and you see it's...
你把它拉回来，你会发现它...
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's, like, webbed.
它就像是有蹼的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So the whole thing with this conversation is all about function, okay?
所以这次谈话的全部内容都是关于功能，好吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So does your tongue and do the oral structures function appropriately?
那么您的舌头和口腔结构功能正常吗？
In which case, you're good.
在这种情况下，你很好。
What's hard is, something to be mindful of, you can't diagnose anyone from a photo on social media.
困难的是，需要注意的是，你无法通过社交媒体上的照片诊断任何人。
So I see a lot of parent blogs who are saying, "My child has a tongue tie.
所以我看到很多家长博客都在说：“我的孩子舌系带短。
My child has a lip tie." You can't tell.
我的孩子有一条唇带。”你说不出来。
We have to look at function.
我们必须看功能。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So is it impairing or impacting breastfeeding?
那么它会损害或影响母乳喂养吗？
Can the tongue not lift appropriately?
舌头不能适当抬起吗？
It's all about lifting, elevating, and lateralizing.
这都是关于提升、提升和侧化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So many think tongue tie impacts you sticking your tongue out.
很多人认为舌系带会影响你伸出舌头。
We don't care as much about that.
我们对此不太关心。
What grows the face and the palate in utero and then beyond is that tongue lifting, elevating, and spreading that palate, almost like an expander.
面部和上颚在子宫内以及在子宫外生长的原因是舌头的抬起、抬高和扩展上颚，几乎就像扩张器一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Like an orthodontic expander.
就像正畸扩张器一样。
And so if it can't lift, that's the first sign, and that means it can't pull in the breast tissue and breastfeed appropriately.
因此，如果它无法抬起，这是第一个迹象，这意味着它无法拉动乳房组织并适当地进行母乳喂养。
Babies might have a lot of reflux.
婴儿可能会出现严重反流。
Women will have pain.
女性会感到疼痛。
Okay?
好的？
So that's one of the first things we look at.
这是我们首先要考虑的事情之一。
But then as children get older, we look, well, is there a tongue tie that is potentially leading to mouth breathing?
但随着孩子长大，我们会想，舌系带是否有可能导致张口呼吸？
So when your lips are closed and you're breathing through your nose, your tongue should be up at the palate, and it should have enough tone to stay there, ideally while we sleep, too.
因此，当你的嘴唇闭合并且通过鼻子呼吸时，你的舌头应该位于上颚，并且应该有足够的音调停留在那里，理想情况下我们睡觉时也是如此。
But if your tongue is tethered, it can't lift up.
但如果你的舌头被拴住，它就无法抬起来。
Your tongue's going to lay low, and you're going to have more of the Napoleon Dynamite look, okay?
你的舌头会放低，你会更有拿破仑炸药的样子，好吗？
So that open mouth, forward head posture.
使嘴张开，头向前倾的姿势。
That's just because the tongue can't lift.
那只是因为舌头无法抬起。
Many times when people have tongue tie, their palates are narrow, too, because in utero, the tongue wasn't up to grow the face optimally.
很多时候，当人们有舌系带时，他们的上颚也会变窄，因为在子宫内，舌头无法以最佳方式生长脸部。
And this runs genetically in families as well, the predisposition.
这也是在家庭中遗传的，即倾向。
So then the next thing we look at is speech, and is it impacting speech, or is it impacting chewing and swallowing?
那么接下来我们要关注的是言语，它是影响言语，还是影响咀嚼和吞咽？
So if all of those things are fine, if it looks like there's a tongue tie but you're thriving, you're doing great, assuming you're not compensating and using other muscles and now having other downstream effects like shoulder pain, headaches, postural issues, you're great.
所以，如果所有这些都很好，如果看起来舌系带打结，但你正在蓬勃发展，那么你就做得很好，假设你没有代偿并使用其他肌肉，并且现在有其他下游影响，如肩痛、头痛、姿势问题，那么你就很好。
But if a child is having issues and you've gone through the right screening and had the risk-benefit discussion with the parents, I do think a frenectomy is indicated.
但是，如果孩子有问题，并且您已经进行了正确的筛查并与父母进行了风险收益讨论，我确实认为需要进行系带切除术。
And I myself have had one, and it benefited me a lot.
我自己也有过一次，这让我受益匪浅。
My issues were neck strain and a lot of shoulder tension that really, there's a lot of fascial tissue that's impacted with a tongue tie, or can be, and so it helped me a tremendous amount.
我的问题是颈部拉伤和肩部紧张，实际上，有很多筋膜组织受到舌系带的影响，或者可能受到影响，所以它对我帮助很大。
But nothing's one size fits all, and we're all different.
但没有什么是万能的，我们都是不同的。
So this is where you do want to work with someone with additional training to see if you have a tongue tie, how are they assessing that, and then is it impairing function, and then do you actually need a procedure done?
因此，您确实希望与接受过额外培训的人合作，看看您是否有舌系带过短，他们如何评估这一点，然后它是否会损害功能，然后您是否真的需要进行手术？
Sometimes just working with a myofunctional therapist or different body workers, a chiropractor, a craniosacral therapist, an osteopath, can be enough to create balance again.
有时，只需与肌功能治疗师或不同的身体工作人员、脊椎按摩师、颅骶治疗师、整骨师一起工作，就足以再次创造平衡。
So it's not always a surgical intervention.
因此，这并不总是需要手术干预。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In your case, was it a general anesthesia or a local anesthesia?
你的情况是全身麻醉还是局部麻醉？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I had my tonsils out also very recently, just a few years ago, because I had chronic tonsillitis.
最近，就在几年前，我也切除了扁桃体，因为我患有慢性扁桃体炎。
And so I knew I had a posterior tongue tie, and I just told the surgeon, "Just go ahead and do it.
所以我知道我有后舌系带，我只是告诉外科医生，“继续做吧。
I'm already getting my tonsils out."
我已经把扁桃体取出来了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
You're already in there.
你已经在里面了。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Already in there.
已经在那里了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But for most people, it would be a general anesthesia.
但对于大多数人来说，这将是全身麻醉。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Usually no. Usually it is local It's really not bad, especially they're using lasers now for the procedure.
通常不会。通常是局部的，这确实不错，尤其是他们现在使用激光进行手术。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, okay.
哦，好吧。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
It's pretty straightforward, yeah.
这非常简单，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, that can cauterize-
是的，这可以烧灼-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
as you make the cut.
当你进行切割时。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
You do want to generally suture, and you want to make sure you're working with a myofunctional therapist before and after for optimal outcomes.
您确实想要进行总体缝合，并且您需要确保在缝合前后与肌功能治疗师合作以获得最佳结果。
It's like, think about if I went in for a knee replacement, I wouldn't just walk into the operating room, "Here's my knee." Usually, there's physical therapy before and after to make sure you're optimized, and so it's the same with the tongue release.
就像，想想如果我去做膝关节置换手术，我不会只是走进手术室，“这是我的膝盖。”通常，前后都会进行物理治疗，以确保您处于最佳状态，因此舌头释放也是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Peptides and red light therapy.
肽和红光疗法。
Now we're in the sort of specialized-
现在我们处于一种专业化的状态——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
next sort of cutting edge of health and self-directed health, or self-directed/working with a professional like yourself, oral healthcare.
下一种健康前沿和自我指导的健康，或者自我指导/与像你这样的专业人士一起工作，口腔保健。
So can red light therapy, like shining red light-
红光疗法也可以，比如发出红光——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and near-infrared light, so long wavelength light into the mouth, provide any benefits for a person that doesn't have any other issues, like they just want to maximize their oral health?
近红外光，如此长的波长光进入口腔，为没有任何其他问题的人提供任何好处，就像他们只想最大限度地提高口腔健康一样？
Is that something that can be helpful?
这是有帮助的吗？
What else is it potentially helpful for?
它还有什么潜在的帮助？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It certainly couldn't hurt.
这当然不会造成伤害。
I haven't seen any solid data on that, but-
我还没有看到任何可靠的数据，但是-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
it would reduce inflammation, improve blood flow.
它会减少炎症，改善血液流动。
So I'm not opposed to it.
所以我并不反对。
It's wonderful post-surgery.
手术后的感觉真是太棒了。
So if you have wisdom teeth out or periodontal surgery, a lot of dentists and specialists are using red light therapy extra-orally or intra-orally to help expedite healing, collagen synthesis, et cetera.
因此，如果您拔掉了智齿或进行了牙周手术，许多牙医和专家会在口外或口内使用红光疗法来帮助加速愈合、胶原蛋白合成等。
Peptides are newer, and exosomes as well, that are being used particularly in root canal therapies and maybe cavitation surgeries and things.
肽和外泌体都是较新的，特别用于根管治疗，也许还有空化手术等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Again, just to help with inflammation, healing, collagen synthesis.
再说一次，只是为了帮助炎症、愈合、胶原蛋白合成。
It's pretty cool.
非常酷。
It's very cutting edge, and it's very new, and there's very few out there doing it right now.
它非常前沿，而且非常新，而且现在很少有人这样做。
There's a couple in LA that I know are, so I can share names.
我认识洛杉矶有一对夫妇，所以我可以分享名字。
But the idea is to regenerate tissues.
但这个想法是再生组织。
Specifically with peptides, when put down in the pulpal chamber, potentially can help build up the dentin within the tooth, and maybe help increase vascularization, get some more vitality back to the tooth, too.
特别是肽，当放入牙髓腔时，可能有助于在牙齿内形成牙本质，并且可能有助于增加血管化，使牙齿恢复更多活力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So it's pretty cool.
所以这很酷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All right, so we'll stand by on that.
好吧，我们会支持这一点。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah, stand by.
是的，站在一边。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Should we be concerned about metal fillings?
我们应该担心金属填充物吗？
I don't know what material they use for the other fillings, and sometimes they'll use, quote-unquote, "sealants." Like they'll see a pit, and they'll put some sealant in there.
我不知道他们用什么材料做其他填充物，有时他们会使用“密封剂”。就像他们会看到一个坑，然后他们会在里面放一些密封剂。
And retainers are made from plastic.
固定器由塑料制成。
Now everyone's worried about plastic.
现在每个人都担心塑料。
So what gives?
那么什么给出呢？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So the best dentistry is no dentistry.
所以最好的牙科就是没有牙科。
I will always say that, so that's why we always want to take a preventative lens as best we can, but that's not the reality since 90% of us have suffered from some sort of dental disease in our life.
我总是这么说，这就是为什么我们总是想尽可能地佩戴预防性镜片，但这不是现实，因为我们 90% 的人在生活中都患有某种牙科疾病。
So mercury fillings, this can get controversial.
因此，汞填充物可能会引起争议。
I think the first thing to do-- I don't love mercury amalgam fillings, and they were recently banned in Europe.
我认为首先要做的是——我不喜欢汞合金填充物，而且它们最近在欧洲被禁止。
I think if you're getting a new filling, I would try not to have mercury placed.
我想如果你要进行新的填充，我会尽量不要放置水银。
That would be my recommendation.
这就是我的建议。
Try to use a composite, ideally a ceramic-based biomimetic material.
尝试使用复合材料，最好是陶瓷基仿生材料。
But if you have existing mercury fillings, amalgam fillings, and you're concerned, the first thing to do is get a test.
但如果您现有汞填充物、汞合金填充物，并且您担心的话，首先要做的就是进行测试。
Get a blood test to see what are your mercury levels.
进行血液检查，看看您的汞含量是多少。
If they're within normal, I wouldn't worry too much.
如果都在正常范围内，我就不会太担心。
If you have mercury toxicity or mercury through the roof, then you probably should have that conversation with your dental team and your medical team to see, could this be coming from my fillings?
如果您有汞中毒或汞穿过屋顶，那么您可能应该与您的牙科团队和医疗团队进行对话，看看这是否来自我的填充物？
And certainly if a filling is breaking, damaged, it needs to be replaced, maybe considering not doing an amalgam metal filling.
当然，如果填充物破裂、损坏，则需要更换，也许可以考虑不使用汞合金填充物。
So that's kind of my stance on that.
这就是我对此的立场。
Composite fillings, they are plastics, essentially.
复合填充物，本质上是塑料。
Most are BPA-free, but that is a bit of a marketing idea.
大多数不含 BPA，但这有点营销理念。
There's still other plasticizers in there, BisGMA, et cetera.
里面还有其他增塑剂，BisGMA 等等。
So I do really like ceramic-based materials if you can find them.
所以我真的很喜欢陶瓷材料，如果你能找到的话。
Nothing is perfect.
没有什么是完美的。
This is the best available that we have.
这是我们现有的最好的。
Regarding retainers, I get this question a lot, too.
关于保留人，我也经常被问到这个问题。
Acrylic retainers, those are the pink retainers.
丙烯酸保持器，那些是粉红色的保持器。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
What's interesting about those, methyl methacrylate can have gluten in it, so if you are celiac.
有趣的是，甲基丙烯酸甲酯中可能含有麸质，所以如果你有乳糜泻的话。
There have been case reports of teens especially who they keep having GI distress or rashes because celiac often can come out in the skin, and they can't figure out why, and it ties back to the retainer.
有一些青少年的病例报告，特别是他们一直有胃肠道不适或皮疹，因为乳糜泻经常会出现在皮肤上，他们不明白为什么，而且这与保持器有关。
So just be aware of that.
所以请注意这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And then people will ask, well, about Invisalign, and again, nothing's perfect.
然后人们会问，嗯，关于 Invisalign 隐适美，再说一次，没有什么是完美的。
Usually, most of these retainers and things you're only wearing for a short period as you're trying to correct your airway issue.
通常，大多数保持器和物品仅在您尝试纠正气道问题时短时间佩戴。
So lesser of two evils.
所以两害相权取其轻。
I'm a big airway advocate.
我是一名大型航空公司的拥护者。
I want people breathing optimally.
我希望人们呼吸最佳。
That is the most important thing for your health, in my opinion, is optimized oxygenation and breathing, and rest and recovery.
在我看来，对您的健康最重要的是优化氧合和呼吸、休息和恢复。
So I am an advocate for expansion in some of these materials and products for short durations if necessary, so we can't take all the risk out of everything, right?
因此，我主张在必要时短期内扩展其中一些材料和产品，因此我们不能排除一切风险，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And this is why the host, making sure your immune response is optimized, your detox pathways are open, your phase two liver detox is optimized, that's ideal.
这就是为什么宿主要确保您的免疫反应得到优化，您的排毒途径开放，您的第二阶段肝脏排毒得到优化，这是理想的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So yeah.
所以是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Cruciferous vegetables.
十字花科蔬菜。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sulforaphane supplementation, maybe.
也许可以补充萝卜硫素。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Bitters.
苦味剂。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dandelion.
蒲公英。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The same things that were recommended in the microplastics episode that I did that other people have touched on.
我在微塑料事件中推荐的内容与其他人提到的内容相同。
So things like sauna, sulforaphane-
所以像桑拿、萝卜硫素之类的东西-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
binders
粘合剂
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
cruciferous vegetable intake should help binding to some of the-
十字花科蔬菜的摄入应该有助于结合一些-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
microplastics that surely we are ingesting.
我们肯定正在摄入微塑料。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Everyone has them.
每个人都有。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So you just try to minimize your exposure.
所以你只要尽量减少暴露。
And then sealants, I am an advocate of sealants.
然后是密封剂，我是密封剂的拥护者。
They really do reduce cavity risk.
它们确实降低了蛀牙风险。
They're usually put on the molars in the grooves and the fissures of the back teeth.
它们通常放置在后牙的凹槽和裂隙中的臼齿上。
But again, so I use spectrometry to make sure I'm not sealing in bacteria, so it's an image that shows me if there's carries or cavity there.
但同样，我使用光谱测量法来确保我没有封闭细菌，所以这是一张图像，可以向我显示那里是否有携带物或空腔。
I'm using ozone to make sure I'm killing the bacteria.
我使用臭氧来确保杀死细菌。
Sometimes I'll use my laser, which helps disinfect too, to open the groove up, and then I'm using ceramic-based materials, too.
有时我会使用激光（这也有助于消毒）打开凹槽，然后我也会使用陶瓷材料。
So I think it depends on your risk as well.
所以我认为这也取决于你的风险。
If you're low risk, you're not eating a lot of these ultra-processed foods, you're probably okay.
如果您的风险较低，并且没有食用大量这些超加工食品，那么您可能没问题。
But a lot of kids, we have control over our children's diets only to a certain point, and then they go off to middle school and start eating the Takis and the Doritos, and they make maybe some bad choices.
但对很多孩子来说，我们只能在一定程度上控制孩子的饮食，然后他们上中学，开始吃塔基斯和多力多滋，他们可能会做出一些错误的选择。
And so if you want their teeth as protected as possible, I'd suggest sealants.
因此，如果您希望尽可能保护他们的牙齿，我建议使用密封剂。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A somewhat unpleasant topic, but something that I've heard repeatedly, and I don't know if it's true, is that dentists, more than people in any other profession, commit suicide at very high rates.
这是一个有点令人不快的话题，但我多次听到过，但我不知道这是否属实，那就是牙医的自杀率比任何其他职业的人都要高。
And then there's this very dark joke that people make.
然后人们就开了一个非常黑暗的笑话。
Well, their hands are always in other people's mouths, so they don't have anyone to talk to.
好吧，他们的手总是放在别人的嘴里，所以他们没有人可以说话。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then I always think, well, the logic's wrong there.
然后我总是想，好吧，逻辑是错误的。
They actually could talk as much as they want.
他们实际上可以随心所欲地说话。
It's the patients that can't talk.
病人是不会说话的。
So, setting aside that kind of gallows humor-
所以，抛开那种绞刑架式的幽默——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
which it's not my style of humor.
这不是我的幽默风格。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do dentists kill themselves more than people in other professions?
牙医自杀的次数比其他职业的人多吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Thank you for bringing this up.
谢谢你提出这个问题。
I think it's important to talk about.
我认为谈论这一点很重要。
Dentists do have a really high rate of depression, anxiety, and yeah, suicide, too.
牙医的抑郁、焦虑和自杀率确实很高。
I always heard this, too, even before I became a dentist, and it's a really hard profession.
我也经常听到这样的说法，甚至在我成为牙医之前也是如此，这是一个非常辛苦的职业。
And so we tend to be the brunt of the joke.
所以我们往往是首当其冲的笑话。
We're in the song, there's songs like "I'm Afraid of Dentists in the Dark" by Vance Joy, and like Steve Martin playing the eccentric dentist in multiple different movies, I think.
我们在歌曲中，有像万斯·乔伊（Vance Joy）的“我害怕黑暗中的牙医”这样的歌曲，我想还有像史蒂夫·马丁（Steve Martin）在多部不同电影中扮演古怪牙医的歌曲。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Little Shop of Horrors.
恐怖小店。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Little Shop of Horrors.
恐怖小店。
Horrible Bosses, there's like a crazy dentist.
可怕的老板们，就像一个疯狂的牙医。
Horror movies have dentists.
恐怖电影里有牙医。
We are the brunt of the joke a little bit.
我们是首当其冲的一点笑话。
And so that's hard.
所以这很难。
And unfortunately, there are just so many negative childhood experiences at the dentist.
不幸的是，童年时期看牙医的负面经历实在是太多了。
And this is partly why I went into pediatrics, is that I was an adult dentist for many years.
这就是我进入儿科的部分原因，因为我是一名成年牙医多年。
I felt very dissatisfied with my career because I just felt like I wasn't making a difference.
我对自己的职业生涯感到非常不满意，因为我觉得自己没有做出什么改变。
Dental disease is so prevalent, and unless we're talking about it from this root cause lens, we're not going to move the needle.
牙科疾病如此普遍，除非我们从根本原因的角度来讨论它，否则我们不会采取行动。
But it's very hard when you get in the system to get out of it.
但一旦进入这个体制，再想摆脱它就很难了。
The way our appointment times are set up, and the overhead is crazy, and the student debt now, and the pressures.
我们的预约时间是如何安排的，管理费用是疯狂的，还有现在的学生债务，还有压力。
And the things with dentists is we are the clinicians, but we're also kind of the CEOs of our businesses.
对于牙医来说，我们是临床医生，但我们也是我们企业的首席执行官。
Many of us have private practices.
我们中的许多人都有私人诊所。
So you're wearing two hats.
所以你戴着两顶帽子。
So when you're done with treatment all day and seeing patients all day, then you're sitting in front of the computer, and you have people to help you, but you're trying to manage the business.
因此，当你完成一整天的治疗并整天看望病人时，你就坐在电脑前，有人帮助你，但你却在努力管理业务。
And we didn't go into school for that, looking at spreadsheets, HR issues, et cetera.
我们去学校并不是为了这个，查看电子表格、人力资源问题等等。
And many of us are in solo practices, so it can be very lonely.
而且我们很多人都是单独练习，所以可能会很孤独。
But also, we tend to be more Type A personalities, perfectionists, and dentistry's hard.
而且，我们往往更倾向于 A 型人格、完美主义者，而且牙科很难。
There's a lot of unknowns.
有很多未知数。
There's a lot of variables.
有很多变数。
I can put a filling in your mouth, but I can't guarantee that you're going to brush, floss, follow my rules, not eat ultra-processed foods.
我可以在你嘴里塞些东西，但我不能保证你会刷牙、用牙线、遵守我的规则、不吃超加工食品。
You're breathing through your nose.
你通过鼻子呼吸。
What's your microbiome like?
你的微生物组是什么样的？
So then you're doing all of these things that I've instructed you not to do, and then you come back because the filling fails, and we're the ones to blame for that.
所以你做了我指示你不要做的所有这些事情，然后你因为填充失败而回来，而我们应该为此负责。
And don't get me wrong, there's all variations of providers out there, and there's people doing excellent work and people doing not so excellent work.
不要误会我的意思，那里有各种各样的提供商，有些人做得很好，有些人做得不太好。
But I do think it's important for everyone to know that many dentists are having a hard time with work, especially post-COVID, I would say.
但我确实认为，让每个人都知道，许多牙医的工作很困难，尤其是在新冠疫情之后，这一点很重要。
There's a lot of pressures.
有很多压力。
Dental insurance is very challenging.
牙科保险非常具有挑战性。
It's not truly insurance like medical insurance.
它并不是像医疗保险那样真正的保险。
It's really a benefit package.
这确实是一个福利包。
And so you tend to only get $1,000 or $1,200 a year, and then everything else is out of pocket.
所以你每年往往只能拿到 1,000 或 1,200 美元，然后其他的一切都是自掏腰包。
And so people kind of look at us like that's kind of a scam.
所以人们看我们就像是一个骗局。
It's so expensive.
太贵了。
But what they don't realize is many of these dental supply companies, they have essentially monopolies on us.
但他们没有意识到，许多牙科供应公司基本上垄断了我们。
Our equipment is outrageously expensive.
我们的设备贵得离谱。
And prices keep going up and up and up, but what isn't changing are insurance reimbursements, okay?
价格不断上涨，但不变的是保险报销，好吗？
So where does that delta come in?
那么这个三角洲从哪里来呢？
And usually it's coming out of the dentist's pocket, too.
通常它也是从牙医的口袋里掏出来的。
So it's why corporate dentistry's taking over.
这就是企业牙科占据主导地位的原因。
In a lot of ways, kind of what happened to medicine.
在很多方面，这就像医学上发生的事情一样。
But I would just say be kind to your dentist.
但我只想说善待你的牙医。
Just recently, this is very timely, but I don't know where this came from.
就在最近，这个消息非常及时，但我不知道这是从哪里来的。
Maybe it was like a TikTok thing, but there were letters being mailed.
也许这就像 TikTok 的事情，但有人寄出信件。
Specifically, I saw in the Pacific Northwest, Oregon, and Portland that dentists were receiving these hate letters saying dentists are scumbags, and they should all kill themselves.
具体来说，我在太平洋西北地区、俄勒冈州和波特兰看到牙医收到了这些仇恨信件，说牙医是卑鄙的人，他们都应该自杀。
So I think it's important for people to know what we kind of deal with behind the scenes, and to just be kind to your dentist.
因此，我认为人们了解我们在幕后处理的情况并善待您的牙医非常重要。
And I would say if someone doesn't resonate with you, if their personality doesn't resonate with you Just go find a different dentist.
我想说，如果某人不与你产生共鸣，如果他们的个性不与你产生共鸣，那就去找不同的牙医吧。
And I do want to understand there is a lot of post-traumatic stress disorder from patients who truly fear the dentist.
我确实想了解，有很多真正害怕牙医的患者患有创伤后应激障碍。
It's usually from experiences in childhood, and that's what I wanted to change, too.
这通常来自童年的经历，这也是我想改变的。
I just said it doesn't have to be this way.
我只是说事情不必如此。
We can make dentistry a very positive place, a safe place, so that children grow into adults without dental disease, but also that find the dentist to be a safe, comfortable place to go.
我们可以让牙科成为一个非常积极的地方、一个安全的地方，让孩子们成长为没有牙齿疾病的成年人，同时也让看牙医成为一个安全、舒适的地方。
So I mean, some people, if you're really that fearful, maybe considering therapy or some sort of anxiolytic.
所以我的意思是，有些人，如果你真的那么害怕，也许会考虑治疗或某种抗焦虑药。
Do you need something to help you feel calmer at the dentist?
您需要一些东西来帮助您在看牙医时感到平静吗？
But I encourage everyone to go to the dentist.
但我鼓励大家去看牙医。
Don't avoid the dentist.
不要回避牙医。
But also trying to understand, it is a challenging profession.
但也试图理解，这是一个具有挑战性的职业。
It really is.
确实如此。
And there's a lot of unknowns, and there are some mental health challenges out there, too.
还有很多未知因素，也存在一些心理健康挑战。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, thank you for being an incredible ambassador for dentistry, and no small part of that comes from your obvious kindness and goodness and also the rigor with which you approach it.
嗯，感谢您成为令人难以置信的牙科大使，其中很大一部分来自于您明显的善良和善良以及您处理问题的严谨态度。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The two are certainly not incompatible.
两者当然不是不兼容的。
You're proof of that.
你就是证明。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I wonder if now would be a good time for us to just sort of summarize the top 10 or top 12 things.
我想知道现在是否是我们总结前 10 或前 12 件事的好时机。
There are a bunch of don'ts.
有很多不该做的事情。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe we can leave those out, like avoid sugary, starchy, floury foods that get stuck between teeth, that kind of thing.
也许我们可以把这些排除在外，比如避免吃含糖、淀粉、面粉的食物，这些食物会卡在牙齿之间，诸如此类。
But maybe I'll fire off a few, and you can tell me what I'm missing.
但也许我会开出一些，你可以告诉我我错过了什么。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Be a nose breather, not a mouth breather.
用鼻子呼吸，而不是用嘴呼吸。
Unless you're eating or speaking, keep your mouth shut, basically.
基本上，除非你正在吃饭或说话，否则请闭嘴。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or you're exercising really hard and you need to suck for some air, or you're scuba diving and you would drown otherwise.
或者你正在非常努力地锻炼，你需要吸一些空气，或者你正在水肺潜水，否则你会被淹死。
Eat non-processed, minimally processed foods.
吃未加工、最低限度加工的食物。
We're hearing that over and over again these days.
这些天我们一遍又一遍地听到这样的说法。
Brush twice a day.
每天刷两次。
Floss twice a day.
每天使用牙线两次。
Waterpik if you can.
如果可以的话，水画。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
That's loading a lot onto people.
这给人们带来了很大的负担。
I would say floss at least once a day.
我想说每天至少使用一次牙线。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Flossing twice a day is extra credit.
每天使用两次牙线是额外的功劳。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Because a lot of people don't floss, so we want to start out reasonable.
因为很多人不使用牙线，所以我们要从合理的角度开始。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Before sleep.
睡觉前。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes, ideally.
是的，理想情况下。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it's brush, then floss.
所以先用刷子，然后用牙线。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Floss, then brush.
用牙线清洁，然后刷牙。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Floss, then brush.
用牙线清洁，然后刷牙。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
But however you can do it.
但无论如何你都可以做到。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, I didn't get it wrong on purpose.
不，我不是故意弄错的。
I knew you would correct us-
我知道你会纠正我们-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I also like tongue scraping
我也喜欢刮舌头
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I got it wrong.
我听错了。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
We forgot to talk about tongue scraping.
我们忘了谈论刮舌。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So I want to add in these things.
所以我想添加这些东西。
So maybe oil pull three times a week.
所以也许每周抽油三次。
Put some coconut oil in there, swish it around, practice your nasal breathing while you're doing it.
放一些椰子油进去，晃动一下，边做边练习鼻呼吸。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
That's right.
没错。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Spit it out.
吐出来。
But not in the sink.
但不是在水槽里。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Not in the sink.
不在水槽里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And why just a few times a week?
为什么每周只进行几次？
I don't know if I was clear on that.
我不知道我是否说清楚了。
It's because coconut oil is antimicrobial, so I'm erring on the side of caution, because it will target more anaerobic pathological bacteria, but less is more.
这是因为椰子油具有抗菌作用，所以我谨慎行事，因为它会针对更多的厌氧病理细菌，但少即是多。
We don't want to disrupt the oral microbiome too much.
我们不想过多破坏口腔微生物群。
So just a couple times a week.
所以每周只需几次。
You don't need to do it daily.
你不需要每天都这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
Soft toothbrush.
软牙刷。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Be gentle.
温柔一点。
Avoid alcohol-containing mouthwashes for all sorts of reasons.
出于各种原因，避免使用含酒精的漱口水。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Pay attention to the fluoride debate.
请注意关于氟化物的争论。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Consider hydroxyapatite if you're concerned.
如果您担心，请考虑羟基磷灰石。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
I love these hydroxyapatite toothpastes.
我喜欢这些羟基磷灰石牙膏。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I do too.
我也是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yours and Gator Dentist's one.
你的和鳄鱼牙医的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Me.
我。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Love them.
爱他们。
I don't get paid a dime for it.
我没有为此得到一毛钱。
I pay my own money for them.
我自己付钱给他们。
I really love them.
我真的很爱他们。
My teeth are so much healthier now.
我的牙齿现在健康多了。
I just like them, too.
我也喜欢他们。
They taste good.
它们味道很好。
I don't actually rinse afterwards.
之后我实际上不会冲洗。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We didn't talk about that, but ideally, you don't rinse after you brush.
我们没有谈论这一点，但理想情况下，刷牙后不要冲洗。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Correct.
正确。
So think about if you were a big advocate for sunscreen or a lotion, you put it on, you immediately jump in the shower.
所以想一想，如果你是防晒霜或乳液的大力倡导者，你涂上它，你立即跳进淋浴。
You're washing it all off.
你正在把它全部洗掉。
So it's the same with your toothpaste.
所以你的牙膏也是一样的。
There is a duration of action that it takes for maximum efficacy.
需要一段时间才能发挥最大功效。
So if you're brushing for two minutes and spit and rinse, all that goodness is getting rinsed down the drain.
因此，如果你刷牙两分钟，然后吐掉并冲洗，那么所有的好处都会被冲进下水道。
So you can still spit.
所以你还是可以吐。
People get confused by this.
人们对此感到困惑。
You can still spit, but try not to vigorously rinse everything off.
您仍然可以吐痰，但尽量不要用力冲洗所有东西。
You do want it trying to sit on the teeth and in your saliva a little bit.
你确实希望它能稍微停留在牙齿和唾液中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Avoid nicotine.
避免尼古丁。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
And alcohol.
还有酒精。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And alcohol.
还有酒精。
Hydrate well.
充分保湿。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Electrolytes.
电解质。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Electrolytes.
电解质。
Keep your saliva abundant.
保持唾液充足。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Especially for older people.
特别是对于老年人。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The nasal breathing during sleep, we can double-click on that one because-
睡眠时的鼻呼吸，我们可以双击那个，因为-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah, absolutely
是的，绝对
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that's going to get your sleep right.
这会让你的睡眠正常。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Because that just checks so many boxes.
因为这只是检查了很多方框。
I'd say optimize minerals and fat-soluble vitamins.
我想说的是优化矿物质和脂溶性维生素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
This is kind of Weston Price stuff.
这是韦斯顿普莱斯的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm trying to think here if there's anything I missed.
我在这里试着思考是否有什么我错过的事情。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Well, we could say tongue scraping.
好吧，我们可以说是刮舌。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Tongue scraping.
刮舌。
Excuse me.
打扰一下。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
I do like tongue scraping.
我很喜欢刮舌头。
So again, Ayurvedic, Chinese medicine will look at the tongue from a health standpoint.
再说一遍，阿育吠陀，中医将从健康的角度来看待舌头。
If you have a white coating on your tongue, that's a sign of dysbiosis.
如果你的舌头上有白色的苔藓，那就是生态失调的迹象。
You could have candida.
你可能有念珠菌。
This is important to touch upon.
这一点很重要。
Strep mutans gets blamed for cavities so much, with kids especially, but with children, we really need to be focusing on fungus, too.
变形链球菌被认为是蛀牙的罪魁祸首，尤其是对于孩子来说，但对于孩子来说，我们确实也需要关注真菌。
So candida is really prevalent in early decay in children.
所以念珠菌在儿童早期腐烂中确实很普遍。
No one's screening for this or treating it.
没有人对此进行筛查或治疗。
Candida loves sugar.
念珠菌喜欢糖。
And this is also with diabetics.
这也适用于糖尿病患者。
We're seeing a bidirectional relationship with gum disease, periodontal disease, and insulin resistance, and blood sugar imbalances, too.
我们发现牙龈疾病、牙周疾病、胰岛素抵抗以及血糖失衡也存在双向关系。
So tongue scraping, and it will do a better job than your toothbrush.
所以刮舌头，它比你的牙刷效果更好。
People always ask because it is removing the biofilm, as the toothbrush is kind of moving it around.
人们总是会问，因为它正在去除生物膜，因为牙刷会移动它。
So it's taking off that film of bacteria.
所以它正在去除那层细菌薄膜。
I know, it's kind of gross, but they tend to be anaerobic.
我知道，这有点恶心，但它们往往是厌氧的。
And that can help with nitric oxide production too, because the good bacteria on the tongue tend to live down more in the crypts.
这也有助于一氧化氮的产生，因为舌头上的有益细菌往往更多地生活在隐窝中。
So you don't want to scrape too hard, but just get that film off.
所以你不想刮得太用力，只要把那层薄膜撕掉就可以了。
You'll also notice improvement in your taste perception too-
您还会注意到您的味觉也有所改善 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
...
...
because you're getting food remnants and things off as well.
因为你也会把食物残渣和东西都清理掉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You wouldn't want that.
你不会想要那样的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Oh, I love it.
哦，我喜欢它。
Once you start tongue scraping, you usually-- Most everyone's a big advocate for it.
一旦你开始刮舌，你通常——大多数人都是它的大力倡导者。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you so much for this-
非常感谢你-
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Thank you, Andrew
谢谢你，安德鲁
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
really extensive and exceptionally clear voyage through oral health.
真正广泛且异常清晰的口腔健康之旅。
I am sure that people are going to take away many, many things that are actionable, and I really appreciate that you've been such a strong advocate for pointing out that oral health is not just about teeth, it's not just about breath, it's about that, but it's also about your whole digestive tract and about brain health and about heart health.
我相信人们会拿走很多很多可操作的东西，我真的很感激你如此强烈地倡导指出口腔健康不仅仅是牙齿，不仅仅是呼吸，它还关系到你的整个消化道，关系到大脑健康和心脏健康。
And we have a lot of control over this particular-
我们对这个特殊的东西有很多控制权——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
aspect of our body as opposed to heart health, which we have to get to indirectly unless we're a heart surgeon.
我们身体的一个方面，而不是心脏健康，除非我们是心脏外科医生，否则我们必须间接地了解心脏健康。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or gut health, which we have to get to indirectly unless we're a-
或者肠道健康，我们必须间接地做到这一点，除非我们——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Exactly
正是如此
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
gastroenterologist, right?
消化科医生，对吗？
So-
所以——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
What other biofilm do you have access to?
您还能接触到哪些其他生物膜？
It really is a window into the body.
它确实是进入身体的窗口。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So if you have gum disease or cavities, that is a sign of a metabolic imbalance in your body.
因此，如果您患有牙龈疾病或蛀牙，那就是您体内代谢失衡的迹象。
So not to make you panic, but I just want people to take it seriously, that it is a window into other things that could be happening deeper within the system.
因此，我不是为了让你们恐慌，而是希望人们认真对待它，这是了解系统内部可能发生的其他事情的一个窗口。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I absolutely love the work that you're doing.
嗯，我非常喜欢你正在做的工作。
I couldn't think of a better person to bring on here to-
我想不出比这更好的人可以带来这里——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Thank you
谢谢你
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
educate us all.
教育我们所有人。
And like I said, you've given us so many valuable tools, and we will provide links to all the incredible resources that you continue to put out into the world.
正如我所说，您为我们提供了如此多有价值的工具，我们将提供您继续向世界提供的所有令人难以置信的资源的链接。
So thank you for doing that.
所以谢谢你这么做。
Thank you for coming here.
谢谢你来到这里。
It's clear that this is a labor of love for you.
很明显，这是对你的爱的劳动。
It's not just about cleaning teeth or something.
这不仅仅是清洁牙齿什么的。
So yeah, people probably can't see-- Well, certainly if they're listening, they can't see the incredible extensive notes that Dr. Whitman brought with her, and her incredible handwriting.
所以，是的，人们可能看不到——嗯，当然，如果他们在听，他们就看不到惠特曼博士带来的令人难以置信的广泛笔记，以及她令人难以置信的笔迹。
Goodness gracious, what beautiful handwriting.
天哪，多么漂亮的字啊。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
So I could read it later.
所以我可以稍后再读。
Not all doctors have bad handwriting, I suppose.
我想并不是所有医生的字迹都不好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, they notoriously have bad handwriting, but yours is- ...
不，他们的字迹是出了名的差，但你的却是——……
you certainly could offset whatever failures of handwriting the other physicians have.
你当然可以弥补其他医生笔迹上的任何失误。
So-
所以——
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
This was really fun.
这真的很有趣。
Thank you so much.
太感谢了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thanks.
谢谢。
Well, we'll do it again.
好吧，我们会再做一次。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Appreciate it.
欣赏它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm really grateful for you coming on here today.
我真的很感谢你们今天来到这里。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Dr. Staci Whitman:
斯塔西·惠特曼博士：
Yes.
是的。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me today for my discussion with Dr. Stacy Whitman.
感谢您今天加入我与史黛西·惠特曼博士的讨论。
I hope you found it to be as interesting and useful as I did.
我希望您和我一样发现它有趣且有用。
To find links to Dr. Whitman's work and the various resources we discussed, please see the show note captions.
要查找惠特曼博士的工作和我们讨论的各种资源的链接，请参阅节目注释标题。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请通过单击 Spotify 和 Apple 上的关注按钮来关注播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。
And you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
您现在可以在 Spotify 和 Apple 上给我们留下评论。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客或嘉宾有意见，或者您希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑的主题，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience, and it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这是我花了五年多时间编写的一本书，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验，涵盖了从睡眠到运动到压力控制的各个方面的方案，以及与注意力和动机相关的方案，当然，我还为所包含的方案提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." And if you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 hubermanlab。
So that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客上的信息不同。
Again, it's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
再说一遍，所有社交媒体平台上都是 hubermanlab。
And if you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as what we call protocols in the form of one to three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep, how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及我们所说的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议，涵盖从如何优化睡眠、如何优化多巴胺、故意冷暴露等所有内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training.
我们有一个基本的健身方案，涵盖心血管训练和阻力训练。
All of that is available completely zero cost.
所有这些都是完全零成本可用的。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to Newsletter, and enter your email.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的菜单选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯，然后输入您的电子邮件。
And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Stacy Whitman.
再次感谢您参加今天与史黛西·惠特曼博士的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。