How to Control Your Sense of Pain & Pleasure
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
Today, we continue our discussion of the senses, and the senses we are going to discuss are pain and pleasure.
今天我们继续讨论感官，我们要讨论的感官是痛苦和快乐。
Pain and pleasure reflect two opposite ends of a continuum, a continuum that involves detection of things in our skin and the perception, the understanding of what those events are.
痛苦和快乐反映了一个连续体的两个相对端，这个连续体涉及对我们皮肤中事物的检测以及对这些事件的感知和理解。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Our skin is our largest sensory organ and our largest organ, indeed.
事实上，我们的皮肤是我们最大的感觉器官，也是我们最大的器官。
It is much larger than any of the other organs in our body, and it's an odd organ, if you think about it.
它比我们身体的任何其他器官都要大得多，如果你仔细想想，它是一个奇怪的器官。
It has so many functions.
它有很多功能。
It acts as a barrier between our organs and the outside world.
它充当我们的器官和外界之间的屏障。
It harbors neurons, nerve cells that allow us to detect things like light touch or temperature or pressure of various kinds.
它含有神经元，使我们能够检测诸如光触、温度或各种压力等事物。
And it's an organ that we hang ornaments on.
这是我们用来挂装饰品的风琴。
People put earrings in their ears.
人们把耳环戴在耳朵上。
People decorate their skin with tattoos and inks and other things, and it's an organ that allows us to experience either great pain or great pleasure.
人们用纹身、墨水和其他东西来装饰他们的皮肤，它是一个让我们体验巨大痛苦或巨大快乐的器官。
So it's a multifaceted organ, and it's one that our brain needs to make sense of in a multifaceted way.
所以它是一个多方面的器官，我们的大脑需要以多方面的方式理解它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So today, we're going to discuss all that and, most importantly, how you can experience more pleasure and less pain by understanding these pathways.
所以今天，我们将讨论所有这些，最重要的是，如何通过了解这些途径来体验更多快乐和更少痛苦。
We will also discuss things you can do and, if you wish, things you can take that will allow you to experience more pleasure and less pain in response to a variety of different experiences.
我们还将讨论您可以做的事情，以及如果您愿意的话，您可以采取的事情，这些事情将使您在应对各种不同的经历时体验到更多的快乐和更少的痛苦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Before I go any further, I want to highlight a particularly exciting area of science that relates to the skin and to sensing of pleasure and pain, but has everything to do with motivation.
在进一步讨论之前，我想强调一个特别令人兴奋的科学领域，它与皮肤以及快乐和疼痛的感觉有关，但与动机密切相关。
Motivation is something that many people struggle with.
动机是许多人都在努力解决的问题。
Not everybody, but most people experience dips and peaks in their motivation, even if they really want something.
不是每个人，但大多数人的动力都会经历起起伏伏，即使他们真的想要某样东西。
How should we think about these changes in motivation?
我们应该如何看待动机的这些变化？
What do they reflect?
它们反映了什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, at a very basic level, they reflect fluctuations, changes in the levels of a chemical called dopamine.
嗯，在一个非常基本的层面上，它们反映了一种叫做多巴胺的化学物质水平的波动和变化。
Most of us have heard of dopamine.
我们大多数人都听说过多巴胺。
Dopamine is a neuromodulator, meaning it modulates or changes the way that neurons, nerve cells work.
多巴胺是一种神经调节剂，这意味着它可以调节或改变神经元、神经细胞的工作方式。
Most of us have heard that dopamine is the molecule of pleasure.
我们大多数人都听说过多巴胺是快乐的分子。
However, that is incorrect.
然而，这是不正确的。
Dopamine is a molecule of motivation and anticipation.
多巴胺是一种动机和期望的分子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To illustrate how dopamine works, I want to highlight some very important work, largely carried out by the laboratory of a guy named Wolfram Schultz.
为了说明多巴胺如何发挥作用，我想强调一些非常重要的工作，这些工作主要是由沃尔夫拉姆·舒尔茨 (Wolfram Schultz) 的实验室进行的。
The Schultz Laboratory has done dozens of excellent experiments on the dopamine system and have identified something called reward prediction error.
舒尔茨实验室对多巴胺系统进行了数十项出色的实验，并发现了一种称为奖励预测误差的现象。
Although in some sense, you can think about it as reward prediction variance: changes in the levels of dopamine, depending on whether or not you expect a reward and whether or not you get the reward.
尽管从某种意义上说，您可以将其视为奖励预测方差：多巴胺水平的变化，取决于您是否期望奖励以及是否获得奖励。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I'm going to make this very simple.
所以我会让这件事变得非常简单。
Dopamine is released into the brain and body and generally makes us feel activated and motivated and as if we have energy to pursue a goal, and it is released into the brain and body in anticipation of a reward.
多巴胺被释放到大脑和身体中，通常会让我们感到活跃和积极，就好像我们有能量去追求一个目标，并且它被释放到大脑和身体中以期待奖励。
Measurements of dopamine have been made in animals and humans, and what you find is that when we anticipate a reward, dopamine is released.
已经在动物和人类身上进行了多巴胺的测量，你发现当我们预期奖励时，多巴胺就会释放。
We will put in the work to achieve that reward.
我们将付出努力来实现这一回报。
That work could be mental work or physical work.
这项工作可以是脑力工作或体力工作。
But when the reward arrives, dopamine levels drop back down to baseline.
但当奖励到来时，多巴胺水平会回落到基线。
That's right.
这是正确的。
When we receive a reward, dopamine levels go back down to baseline.
当我们收到奖励时，多巴胺水平会回到基线。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the way to envision this is you can just imagine a sort of increase in dopamine as we anticipate something.
因此，想象这一点的方法是，你可以想象当我们预期某件事时，多巴胺会增加。
We're working towards it.
我们正在努力实现这一目标。
We're working towards a goal.
我们正在朝着一个目标努力。
We're excited about seeing somebody or meeting somebody or receiving some reward, and then the reward comes and dopamine goes down.
我们对见到某人或会见某人或收到一些奖励感到兴奋，然后奖励来了，多巴胺就会下降。
Now, that's all fine and good, but there is a way to get much more dopamine out of that process and, therefore, a way to have much more motivation, energy, and focus because those are the consequences of elevated dopamine.
现在，这一切都很好，但是有一种方法可以从这个过程中获得更多的多巴胺，因此，有一种方法可以拥有更多的动力、能量和注意力，因为这些都是多巴胺升高的后果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The way to do that is to not deliver the reward on an expected schedule.
这样做的方法是不按预期的时间表交付奖励。
So experiments have been done where there's an anticipation of a reward.
因此，在预期奖励的情况下进行了实验。
There's work and then the reward only arrives every other, or every third, bout of work, okay?
有工作，然后每隔一轮或每三轮工作就会得到奖励，好吗？
So this would be like getting a pat on the head if you're a dog, or perhaps a child or an adult, or getting a monetary reward only for every third project or every third race that you win.
因此，这就像如果你是一只狗，或者是一个孩子或一个成年人，就会得到一个拍拍你的头，或者只有你每赢得三个项目或每三次比赛才能获得金钱奖励。
Pick any kind of goal.
选择任何类型的目标。
It doesn't matter.
没关系。
These molecules don't care about what you're pursuing.
这些分子并不关心你追求什么。
They are a common currency of different types of activities.
它们是不同类型活动的通用货币。
That's a regular reward schedule, and it will not alter the pattern of dopamine release that I described before.
这是一个定期的奖励计划，它不会改变我之前描述的多巴胺释放模式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
However, if the reward arrives intermittently, almost randomly so you anticipate a reward as a maybe.
然而，如果奖励是间歇性地、几乎是随机地到来，那么你就会认为奖励是有可能的。
It might come.
它可能会来。
It might come.
它可能会来。
Then, you work, work, work, work, work.
然后，你工作，工作，工作，工作，工作。
No reward.
没有奖励。
You repeat the work.
你重复这个工作。
Work, work, work, work, work and then you get a reward.
工作、工作、工作、工作、工作，然后你就会得到回报。
So some trials you do, some trials you don't, and it's completely random.
所以有些试验你做了，有些试验你不做，这完全是随机的。
Under those conditions, the amplitude, the amount of dopamine that's released into your system and the motivation to continue working hard, or playing whatever kind of game you're playing, doubles or triples.
在这些条件下，释放到你的系统中的多巴胺的幅度、数量以及继续努力工作或玩任何类型的游戏的动力，无论是双倍还是三倍。
And this is the basis of things like slot machines and gambling, and this is why so many people will give so much of their money up to casinos, and the casinos always win.
这就是老虎机和赌博等事物的基础，这就是为什么这么多人会把这么多钱捐给赌场，而赌场总是赢。
Sometimes, people walk away with more money than they came to the casino with, but the vast majority of the time, the house wins, as they say, and it's because they understand intermittent reward schedules.
有时，人们离开赌场时所带的钱比来到赌场时所带的钱还要多，但正如他们所说，绝大多数时候，庄家赢了，这是因为他们了解间歇性的奖励计划。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you can apply this to stay motivated in your own pursuits.
您可以运用这一点来保持自己追求的动力。
Rather than thinking about the pleasure of a reward, understand that dopamine is released in response to anticipation of a reward, and that is the fuel for work.
不要考虑奖励的乐趣，而要了解多巴胺是为了响应奖励的预期而释放的，这是工作的燃料。
And every once in a while, at random, remove the reward.
每隔一段时间，随机地删除奖励。
That's the way to continue to stay motivated, not to reward every action or every goal.
这是继续保持动力的方法，而不是奖励每一个行动或每一个目标。
And this is also true if you're trying to train up children or train up players on a team.
如果你想训练孩子或训练团队中的球员，这也是正确的。
You should not celebrate every win.
你不应该庆祝每一次胜利。
I know that's a little counterintuitive.
我知道这有点违反直觉。
We're going to go more into the biology of dopamine and how it relates to the pleasure system later on in the podcast.
我们将在稍后的播客中更多地探讨多巴胺的生物学以及它与快乐系统的关系。
But for now, understand intermittent reward schedules harness the biology of dopamine in ways that can allow you essentially infinite motivation over time.
但现在，了解间歇性奖励计划如何利用多巴胺的生物学原理，随着时间的推移，可以让你获得无限的动力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Before I go any further, I want to acknowledge that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在进一步讨论之前，我想承认这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So let's talk about pleasure and pain.
那么我们来谈谈快乐和痛苦。
I think we all intuitively understand what pleasure and pain are.
我想我们都直观地理解什么是快乐和痛苦。
Pleasure, generally, is a sensation in the body and in the mind that leads us to pursue more of whatever is bringing about that sensation.
一般来说，快乐是一种身体和心灵的感觉，它引导我们去追求更多能带来这种感觉的事物。
And pain is also a sensation in the body and in the mind that, in general, leads us to want to withdraw or move away from some activity or interaction.
疼痛也是身体和心灵的一种感觉，通常会导致我们想要退出或远离某些活动或互动。
That's not always the case.
情况并非总是如此。
Some people actively seek out pain.
有些人主动寻找痛苦。
Some people somehow can't seem to engage with or experience pleasure, but most people operate on this basis of pleasure and pain.
有些人似乎无法参与或体验快乐，但大多数人都是在快乐和痛苦的基础上运作的。
Scientists would call this appetitive behaviors, meaning behaviors that lead us to create an appetite for more of those behaviors, and aversive behaviors, behaviors that make us want to move away from something.
科学家们将这种行为称为“食欲行为”，即导致我们对更多此类行为产生兴趣的行为，以及“厌恶行为”，即让我们想要远离某些事物的行为。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The simplest example of that would be putting your hand near a hot flame.
最简单的例子就是将手靠近热火焰。
At some point, there would be a reflex or a deep desire to withdraw your hand.
在某些时候，你会本能地或强烈地想要收回你的手。
Tasting something delicious, in general, makes us want to eat more of that thing.
一般来说，品尝美味的东西会让我们想吃更多东西。
Interactions with other people that we find delicious also make us want to interact with those people more.
我们觉得与其他人的互动很有趣，也让我们想与这些人有更多的互动。
None of this is complicated or sophisticated.
这些都不复杂或精密。
This is simply to illustrate the fact that pleasure and pain tend to evoke opposite responses, opposite behavioral responses and opposite emotional responses.
这只是为了说明这样一个事实：快乐和痛苦往往会引起相反的反应、相反的行为反应和相反的情绪反应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So how does that come about?
那么这是怎么发生的呢？
Well, it really comes about by an interaction that starts at one end of our body, meaning our skin, and the other end of the organs of our body, which is deep within the brain.
嗯，它实际上是通过一种相互作用产生的，这种相互作用从我们身体的一端（即我们的皮肤）和我们身体器官的另一端（即大脑深处）开始。
So let's consider these two ends of the spectrum of pleasure and pain and what they contribute to those experiences of pleasure and pain.
因此，让我们考虑一下快乐和痛苦的这两个极端，以及它们对快乐和痛苦的体验有何贡献。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The organ that we call the skin, as I mentioned earlier, is the largest organ in our body, and throughout that organ, we have neurons, little nerve cells.
正如我之前提到的，我们称之为皮肤的器官是我们身体中最大的器官，在这个器官中，我们有神经元，小神经细胞。
Now, to be really technical about it, and the way I'd like you to understand it is that the so-called cell body, meaning the location of a cell in which the DNA and other goodies, the kind of central factory of the cell, that actually sits right outside your spinal cord.
现在，从技术角度来说，我希望你理解的是所谓的细胞体，意思是DNA和其他物质所在的细胞的位置，细胞的中心工厂，实际上位于你的脊髓之外。
So all up and down your spinal cord on either side are these little blobs of neurons, little collections of neurons.
因此，脊髓两侧的上下都是这些小神经元团，小神经元集合。
They have a name, if you'd like to know, for you aficionados or those who are curious.
如果您想知道的话，他们有一个名字，适合您的爱好者或好奇的人。
They're called DRGs, dorsal root ganglia.
它们被称为 DRG，即背根神经节。
A ganglion is just a collection or a clump of cells.
神经节只是细胞的集合或细胞团。
And those DRGs are really interesting because they send one branch that we call an axon, a little wire, out to our skin, also to our muscles and to our organs.
这些 DRG 非常有趣，因为它们将一根我们称之为轴突的分支（一根小电线）发送到我们的皮肤、肌肉和器官。
But here, we're talking about the skin.
但在这里，我们谈论的是皮肤。
They send a wire out to our skin, and that wire literally reaches up into the skin.
他们将一根电线送到我们的皮肤上，而那根电线实际上一直延伸到皮肤中。
It's actually in our skin, and they have another wire from that same cell body that goes in the opposite direction, which is up to our brain and creates connections within our brain, in the so-called brain stem.
它实际上在我们的皮肤中，并且它们有另一根来自同一个细胞体的导线，该导线朝相反的方向延伸，该导线连接到我们的大脑并在我们的大脑内（即所谓的脑干）中建立连接。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What this means is that the neuron in your body that we call the DRG, that sends a wire, an axon, to sense what's going on in your big toe and then sends another axon in the opposite direction into the base of your brain, that is the largest cell in your entire body of any kind, fat cell, muscle cell, nerve cell, et cetera.
这意味着你体内的神经元（我们称之为 DRG）会发送一根线（轴突）来感知你的大脚趾发生了什么，然后向相反方向发送另一个轴突到你的大脑基部，大脑基部是你整个身体中最大的细胞，包括脂肪细胞、肌肉细胞、神经细胞等。
Those are extremely long cells.
这些是非常长的细胞。
They can be a meter or more, depending on how tall you happen to be.
它们可以是一米或更长，具体取决于您的身高。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we have these cells that have wires that go off in two different directions, and the wire that's within our skin will respond to any number of different categories of stimuli, okay?
因此，我们的细胞具有向两个不同方向延伸的导线，而我们皮肤内的导线将对任意数量的不同类别的刺激做出反应，好吗？
These wires are positioned within the skin to respond to mechanical forces, so maybe light touch.
这些电线位于皮肤内以响应机械力，因此可能是轻微的触摸。
Some will only send electrical activity up toward the brain in response to light touch, meaning if you press on the skin really hard, they don't respond.
有些只会响应轻触而向大脑发送电活动，这意味着如果你用力按压皮肤，它们不会做出反应。
You stroke the skin lightly with your fingertip or a feather, and they respond very robustly.
你用指尖或羽毛轻轻抚摸皮肤，它们的反应非常强烈。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Others respond to coarse pressure, to hard pressure, but they won't respond to a light feather.
其他人对粗压力、硬压力有反应，但对轻羽毛没有反应。
For instance, others respond to temperature, so they will respond to the presence of heat or the presence of cold, or changes in heat and cold, and still others respond to other types of stimuli, like certain chemicals on our skin.
例如，其他人会对温度做出反应，因此他们会对热或冷的存在或热和冷的变化做出反应，还有一些人会对其他类型的刺激做出反应，例如我们皮肤上的某些化学物质。
Many of you have probably experienced the sensation of eating a hot pepper.
很多人可能都体验过吃辣椒的感觉。
Well, I don't recommend doing this, but were you to take little slice of jalapeño or other hot pepper, habanero pepper or something like that, and rub it on your skin, you would actually feel something at that location.
嗯，我不建议这样做，但是如果你取一小片墨西哥胡椒或其他辣椒、哈瓦那辣椒或类似的东西，然后将其擦在皮肤上，你实际上会在那个位置感觉到一些东西。
And that's because that pepper doesn't just create a sensation within your mouth.
那是因为胡椒不仅仅会在你的嘴里产生一种感觉。
It will create a similar sensation on your skin.
它会在您的皮肤上产生类似的感觉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So these neurons are amazing.
所以这些神经元是惊人的。
They're collecting information of particular kinds from the skin throughout the entire body and sending that information up toward the brain.
他们从整个身体的皮肤收集特定类型的信息，并将这些信息发送到大脑。
And what's really incredible, I just want you to ponder this for a second, what's really incredible is that the language that those neurons use is exactly the same.
真正令人难以置信的是，我只是想让你思考一下，真正令人难以置信的是这些神经元使用的语言是完全相同的。
The neuron that responds to light touch sends electrical signals up toward the brain.
对轻触做出反应的神经元向大脑发送电信号。
The neurons that respond to cold or to heat or to habanero pepper, they only respond to the particular thing that evokes the electrical response.
对冷、热或哈瓦那辣椒做出反应的神经元，它们只对引起电反应的特定事物做出反应。
I should say that they only respond to the particular stimulus, the pepper, the cold, the heat, et cetera, that will evoke an electrical signal.
我应该说，它们只对特定的刺激做出反应，比如胡椒、寒冷、炎热等等，这些都会引起电信号。
But the electrical signals are a common language that all neurons use.
但电信号是所有神经元使用的通用语言。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And yet, if something cold is presented to your skin, like an ice cube, even if you don't see that ice cube; if your eyes are closed or someone comes up behind you and puts an ice cube against your bare-skinned back, you know that that sensation, that thing is cold.
然而，如果有冰冷的东西出现在您的皮肤上，例如冰块，即使您看不到那个冰块；如果你闭上眼睛，或者有人走到你身后，把一块冰块放在你裸露的后背上，你就会知道那种感觉，那个东西是冷的。
You don't misperceive it as heat or as a habanero pepper, okay?
你不会把它误认为是热气或哈瓦那辣椒，好吗？
So that's amazing.
所以这太棒了。
What that means is that there must be another element in the equation of what creates pleasure or pain, and that element is your brain.
这意味着在创造快乐或痛苦的方程式中必须还有另一个元素，这个元素就是你的大脑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Your brain takes these electrical signals and interprets them, partially based on experience, but also, there are some innate, meaning some hardwired aspects of pain and pleasure sensing that require no experience whatsoever.
你的大脑获取这些电信号并解释它们，部分基于经验，但也有一些与生俱来的，意味着疼痛和快乐感知的一些硬连线方面不需要任何经验。
A child doesn't have to fall down but once to know on that first fall, that hurt.
孩子不一定要跌倒，但一旦跌倒就知道第一次跌倒会很痛。
They don't have to touch a flame but once, and the very first time, they will withdraw their hand from the flame.
他们不必接触火焰，只要一次，而且是第一次，他们就会把手从火焰上收回。
So no prior experience is required.
因此不需要任何经验。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Other things, prior experience is required.
其他事情，需要先有经验。
For instance, if you're somebody that has an intense, intense aversion to spicy foods, that's probably because you've tasted spicy foods before.
例如，如果您对辛辣食物非常厌恶，那可能是因为您以前吃过辛辣食物。
Likewise, if you really like sweet foods, it's probably because you've tasted them before.
同样，如果你真的喜欢甜食，可能是因为你以前尝过它们。
So you can start to make predictions based on prior experience, but the pain and pleasure system don't need prior experience.
所以你可以根据之前的经验开始做出预测，但是痛苦和快乐系统不需要之前的经验。
What they need is a brain that can interpret these electrical signals, that can take these electrical signals and somehow create what we call pleasure and pain out of them.
他们需要的是一个能够解释这些电信号的大脑，能够接收这些电信号并以某种方式从中产生我们所说的快乐和痛苦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what parts of the brain?
那么大脑有哪些部分呢？
Well, mainly, it's the so-called somatosensory cortex, the portion of our neocortex, which is on the outside of our brain, the kind of bumpy part.
嗯，主要是所谓的体感皮层，我们的新皮层的一部分，它在我们大脑的外面，那种凹凸不平的部分。
Not kind of.
不是那种。
If you have a normally formed brain, it will be bumpy.
如果你的大脑结构正常，它就会凹凸不平。
If you have a smooth brain, that's not good.
如果你的大脑很光滑，那就不好了。
Some animals just have a smooth brain.
有些动物只是有一个光滑的大脑。
Humans have a bumpy brain, which means it has a very large surface area, and those bumps are because you squeezed it like a pizza, and you bunched it all up and put it inside the skull.
人类的大脑凹凸不平，这意味着它有一个非常大的表面积，而这些凹凸是因为你像披萨一样挤压它，然后将它全部聚在一起并放入头骨内。
So that's good.
所以这样很好。
That means you have a lot of neurons.
这意味着你有很多神经元。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And in your somatosensory cortex, you have a map of your entire body surface.
在你的体感皮层中，你有整个身体表面的地图。
That map is called a homunculus.
这张地图被称为“侏儒”。
And if we were to take your cortex and lay it out on a table ...
如果我们把你的皮层放在桌子上......
I've actually done this with the cortices of various animals, and humans included.
事实上，我已经对各种动物的皮质进行了这项研究，包括人类。
What you would find is that there's literally a map of your entire body surface, but it wouldn't look exactly like you.
你会发现，实际上有一张你整个身体表面的地图，但它看起来并不完全像你。
This map would be very distorted.
这张地图会非常扭曲。
Why would it be distorted?
为什么会被扭曲呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, certain areas of your body have a much denser innervation, as we call it, or put simply, many more of these sensory wires from these DRGs within your skin.
好吧，你身体的某些区域有更密集的神经支配，我们称之为，或者简单地说，来自你皮肤内这些 DRG 的更多感觉线。
So this map of you that exists in your brain, and you do have one of these on each side of your brain, so you have two of these maps, two homunculi — that is you.
所以这张你的地图存在于你的大脑中，你的大脑的每一侧都有一张这样的地图，所以你有两张这样的地图，两个小人——那就是你。
It's your representation of touch, including pleasure and pain.
这是你对触摸的表现，包括快乐和痛苦。
And in that map, your lips are enormous, and your back is very, very small, and the area around your eyes and the area representing your face is absolutely enormous.
在那张地图上，你的嘴唇很大，你的背部非常非常小，而你眼睛周围的区域和代表你脸部的区域绝对是巨大的。
So you would look like some sort of odd, weird clay doll from some sort of bizarre late-night animation thing, and now just imagine the psychedelic experience of that character of you, and that's what it would look like.
所以你看起来就像某种奇怪的深夜动画中的某种奇怪的粘土娃娃，现在想象一下你这个角色的迷幻体验，那就是它的样子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it's not randomly organized.
但它不是随机组织的。
To the contrary, it's highly organized in a very particular way, which is that the areas of your skin that have the highest density of these sensory receptors are magnified in your brain.
相反，它以一种非常特殊的方式高度组织起来，也就是说，这些感觉受体密度最高的皮肤区域在你的大脑中被放大。
So it's sort of like having more pixels in a certain part of a camera than others and, in doing that, allowing higher resolution, in this case of touch, not of vision, but of touch sensation in certain parts of your body.
所以这有点像相机的某个部分比其他部分拥有更多的像素，这样就可以实现更高的分辨率，在这种情况下是触摸，不是视觉，而是身体某些部位的触觉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What are the areas that are magnified?
哪些区域被放大了？
Well, the lips, the face, the tips of the fingers, the feet, and the genitals.
嗯，嘴唇、脸、指尖、脚和生殖器。
And so this map of you has very large lips, face, tips of fingers, bottoms of feet and genitals.
所以这张你的地图有非常大的嘴唇、脸、指尖、脚底和生殖器。
And that's because the innervation, the number of wires that go into those regions of your body far exceeds the number of wires for sensation of touch that go to other areas of your body.
这是因为神经支配，进入你身体这些区域的电线数量远远超过了进入你身体其他区域的触觉电线数量。
You can actually experience this in real time right now by doing a simple experiment that we call two-point discrimination.
您现在可以通过做一个简单的实验（我们称之为两点辨别）来实时体验这一点。
Two-point discrimination is your ability to know whether or not two points of pressure are far apart, near each other, or you actually could perceive incorrectly as one point of pressure.
两点辨别能力是指您能够知道两个压力点是否相距较远、彼此接近，或者您实际上可能会错误地将其视为一个压力点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You might want a second person to do this experiment.
您可能需要第二个人来做这个实验。
Here's how you would do it.
下面是您将如何做到这一点。
You would close your eyes.
你会闭上眼睛。
That person would take two fine points.
那个人会扣两分。
Don't make them too sharp, please.
请不要让它们太锋利。
So it could be two pencils or pens or the backs of pens.
所以它可能是两支铅笔或钢笔或笔背。
Two pens, I'm holding in my hands, if you're just listening to this.
如果你只是在听的话，我手里拿着两支笔。
I'm just holding two pens, my favorite pens, these Pilot V5s or V7s, which I love.
我手里拿着两支钢笔，我最喜欢的钢笔，Pilot V5 或 V7，我很喜欢。
If you were to close your eyes, and I were to take these two pens and put their points close together, about a centimeter apart, and present them to the top of your hand ...
如果你闭上眼睛，我就拿起这两支笔，把它们的笔尖靠在一起，相距大约一厘米，然后把它们放在你的手上……
I'm just going to do that now to myself.
我现在就要对自己做这件事。
You, even though your eyes were closed, you would be able to perceive that that was two points of pressure presented simultaneously to the top of your hand.
你，即使你闭着眼睛，你也能感觉到，那是两点压力同时作用在你的手心上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
However, if I were to do this to the middle of your back, you would not experience them as two points of pressure.
然而，如果我对你的背部中间这样做，你就不会感受到它们是两个压力点。
You would experience them as one single point of pressure.
您会将它们视为一个压力点。
In other words, your two-point discrimination is better, is higher on areas of your body which have many, many more sensory receptors.
换句话说，你的两点辨别力更好，在你身体有很多很多感觉受体的区域更高。
You are more sensitive at those locations.
你在这些地方更加敏感。
Now, this makes perfect sense once you experience it or you hear about it.
现在，一旦您经历过或听说过它，这就完全有道理了。
However, most of us don't really appreciate how important and what a profound influence this change in density of receptors across our body surface has.
然而，我们大多数人并没有真正意识到我们身体表面受体密度的变化有多么重要和深远的影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we can go a step further and describe another feature of the way that you're built and the way that you experience pleasure and pain, which is called the dermatome.
我们可以更进一步，描述你的构造方式以及你体验快乐和痛苦的方式的另一个特征，称为皮刀。
The dermatome is literally the way in which your body surface is carved up into different territories, much like a map of the United States is carved up into different territories of states and counties, et cetera.
皮刀实际上是将您的身体表面划分为不同区域的方式，就像美国地图被划分为州和县的不同区域等一样。
The dermatome is the way in which neurons connect to different parts of your body.
皮刀是神经元连接到身体不同部位的方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, you've actually experienced the dermatome before.
现在，您实际上已经体验过皮刀了。
The dermatome is when you have a neuron that connects to a particular area of the body, and that neuron doesn't just send one little wire out, like one little line, and go up into the skin to detect mechanical or thermal or chemical stimuli.
皮刀是指你有一个神经元连接到身体的特定区域，并且该神经元不只是发出一根小线，就像一根小线一样，进入皮肤来检测机械、热或化学刺激。
It actually sends many branches out like a tree.
它实际上像一棵树一样发出许多分支。
But remember, those branches of the tree come from one single neuron.
但请记住，树的这些分支来自一个神经元。
Now occasionally, what will happen is you will experience something like cold or heat or pain or tingling on a patch of your body.
现在偶尔会发生的事情是，你会在身体的某个部位感受到冷、热、疼痛或刺痛等感觉。
And occasionally, that patch of body will actually have a very cleanly demarcated boundary, a very stark boundary with the areas around it.
有时，那块身体实际上会有一个非常清晰的边界，与周围区域的边界非常明显。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A good example of this would be the herpes simplex 1 virus, which, if one has this virus ...
单纯疱疹 1 型病毒就是一个很好的例子，如果感染了这种病毒……
and I should mention that somewhere between 80 and 90% of people have this virus.
我应该提到，80% 到 90% 的人都感染了这种病毒。
This is not a sexually transmitted virus.
这不是性传播病毒。
This is a virus that's transmitted very easily between people through various forms of contact, nonsexual contact.
这种病毒很容易通过各种形式的接触（非性接触）在人与人之间传播。
It's present in children.
它存在于儿童中。
It's present in adults, and most people get it.
它存在于成年人中，并且大多数人都会得到它。
Some get symptoms and some don't.
有些出现症状，有些则没有。
Some get recurring symptoms.
有些症状反复出现。
Some don't.
有些则不然。
We could talk about that at the end, if you like.
如果你愿意的话，我们可以在最后讨论这个问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But this virus lives on what's called the fifth cranial nerve, also called the trigeminal nerve.
但这种病毒生活在所谓的第五脑神经（也称为三叉神经）上。
The trigeminal nerve sends branches out to the lips, to the eyes and to certain portions of the face.
三叉神经向嘴唇、眼睛和面部的某些部位发出分支。
So for those of you listening, I've just kind of put my right hand across my face to sort of simulate the three branches, the trigeminal aspect of this nerve.
所以对于你们听的人来说，我只是把右手放在脸上来模拟三个分支，即这条神经的三叉神经方面。
So tri, three.
所以三，三。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, when the herpes virus flares up, as they say, in response to stress or other factors, the virus inflames that nerve and people experience tingling and pain on the nerve.
现在，正如他们所说，当疱疹病毒因压力或其他因素而爆发时，病毒会使神经发炎，人们会感到神经刺痛和疼痛。
Sometimes, they'll get a cold sore or a blister on their lip or near their mouth.
有时，他们的嘴唇或嘴巴附近会出现唇疱疹或水泡。
Sometimes, they'll get a collection of those, and that's because that dermatome is actually inflamed.
有时，他们会收集这些东西，那是因为皮刀实际上发炎了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, other people will experience something like shingles, right?
现在，其他人也会经历类似带状疱疹的症状，对吧？
It's a fairly common viral infection.
这是一种相当常见的病毒感染。
And what they'll notice is they'll get a rash that has a boundary.
他们会注意到，他们会出现有边界的皮疹。
It's like they'll get a bunch of bumps, sometimes blisters, and they'll have a sharp boundary.
就像它们会出现一堆肿块，有时甚至是水泡，并且它们会有一个尖锐的边界。
That boundary exists because the virus exists on the nerve, and so it actually is boundaried with a neighboring area of the body that's receiving input from another nerve, and that one doesn't have the virus living on it.
该边界的存在是因为病毒存在于神经上，因此它实际上与身体的邻近区域有边界，该区域正在接收来自另一条神经的输入，并且该神经上没有病毒。
So anytime you see a rash or a pattern on the body surface, on the skin, that has a pretty stark boundary, chances are that's an event that's impacting the dermatome.
因此，每当您在身体表面、皮肤上看到皮疹或图案，边界非常明显时，很可能这是影响皮节的事件。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've experienced this before, not through herpes simplex, but through the experience of having a lot of blood sort of aggregating and in kind of a segment across the front of my face.
我以前也经历过这种情况，不是通过单纯疱疹，而是通过大量血液聚集并在我脸上形成一个区域的经历。
It was really bizarre.
这真的很奇怪。
I looked in the mirror and I thought, "What is going on here?" I was having an allergic reaction to something I had eaten, and that allergic reaction clearly was affecting one of the nerves and, therefore, the dermatome.
我看着镜子，心里想：“这是怎么回事？”我对吃的东西产生了过敏反应，这种过敏反应显然影响了其中一根神经，从而影响了皮刀。
And what it showed up was, it was almost like someone had drawn lines on my face that said, "Okay, this rash, or this reaction, rather, can happen here, but not in the region right next to it." Whenever you see that, chances are it's a reaction of the nerves of the dermatome.
结果显示，就像有人在我脸上画了一条线，说：“好吧，这种皮疹，或者说这种反应，可能发生在这里，但不会发生在它旁边的区域。”每当您看到这种情况时，很可能是皮节神经的反应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So you'll start to see these things more and more when you start to look for them.
所以当你开始寻找这些东西时，你会开始越来越多地看到它们。
You don't always have to have a viral infection to experience this.
您并不总是需要感染病毒才能经历这种情况。
Sometimes, you'll just experience tingling or even a pleasant sensation, and it will be restricted in kind of a strict boundary on one location of your body surface and not another, not corresponding to an organ like, "Okay, this arm or just your feet or something like that," but just a segment.
有时，你只会体验到刺痛感，甚至是一种愉悦的感觉，它会被限制在你身体表面的一个位置上，而不是另一个位置上，而不是另一个位置，不对应于一个器官，比如“好吧，这只手臂或只是你的脚或类似的东西”，而只是一个片段。
It's almost like someone outlined a particular area of your body surface.
这几乎就像有人勾画出了您身体表面的特定区域。
That's the dermatome.
那是皮刀。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, so you've got sensors in the skin, and you've got a brain that's going to interpret what's going on with those sensors.
好吧，你的皮肤里有传感器，你的大脑会解释这些传感器发生了什么。
In fact, we can take an example of a sudden rash or inflammation at one location in the dermatome, and we can ask what would make it hurt?
事实上，我们可以举一个皮区某个部位突然出现皮疹或发炎的例子，我们可以问什么会导致它疼痛？
What would make it worse?
什么会使情况变得更糟？
What would make it go away?
什么会让它消失？
And believe it or not, your subjective interpretation of what's happening has a profound influence on your experience of pleasure or pain.
不管你相信与否，你对正在发生的事情的主观解释会对你的快乐或痛苦体验产生深远的影响。
There are several things that can impact these experiences, but the main categories are expectation.
有很多因素会影响这些体验，但主要类别是期望。
So sort of whether or not you thought, or could expect, that this thing was going to happen, right?
所以无论你是否认为或可以预料到这件事会发生，对吗？
If someone tells you, "This is going to hurt.
如果有人告诉你：“这会很痛。
I'm going to give you an injection right here.
我要在这里给你注射。
It might hurt for a second," that's very different and your experience of that pain will be very different than if it happens suddenly out of the blue.
它可能会痛一秒钟，”这是非常不同的，你对那种疼痛的体验也会与突然发生的疼痛有很大不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's also anxiety, how anxious or how high or low your level of arousal, autonomic arousal.
还有焦虑、焦虑程度、唤醒水平的高低、自主神经的唤醒程度。
That's going to impact your experience of pleasure or pain.
这会影响你对快乐或痛苦的体验。
How well you slept and where you are in the so-called circadian, or 24-hour cycle.
您的睡眠质量以及您在所谓的昼夜节律或 24 小时周期中的位置。
Our ability to tolerate pain changes dramatically across the 24-hour cycle.
我们忍受疼痛的能力在 24 小时周期内会发生巨大变化。
And as you can imagine, it's during the daylight waking hours that we are better able to tolerate.
正如你可以想象的那样，我们在白天醒着的时候更能忍受。
We are more resilient to pain, and we are better able to experience pleasure.
我们对痛苦更有弹性，也更能体验快乐。
At night, our threshold for pain is much lower.
晚上，我们对疼痛的阈值要低得多。
In other words, the amount of mechanical or chemical or thermal, meaning temperature, stimuli that can evoke a pain response and how we would rate that response is much lower at night and, in particular, in the hours between 2:00 a.m.
换句话说，在夜间，尤其是凌晨 2:00 至凌晨 2:00 之间，机械、化学或热力（即温度、可引起疼痛反应的刺激以及我们如何评价该反应）的量要低得多。
and 5:00 a.m., if you're on a kind of standard circadian schedule.
早上 5:00（如果您遵循标准昼夜节律）。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then the last one is our genes.
最后一项是我们的基因。
Pain threshold and how long a pain response lasts is, in part, dictated by our genes.
疼痛阈值和疼痛反应持续的时间在一定程度上是由我们的基因决定的。
And later I'm going to discuss this myth, or whether or not it's really a myth, as to whether or not certain people, in particular redheads, people who have red-pigmented hair and fair skin, whether or not their pain thresholds differ.
稍后我将讨论这个神话，或者它是否真的是一个神话，关于某些人，特别是红头发的人，拥有红色头发和白皙皮肤的人，无论他们的疼痛阈值是否不同。
And to just give you a little sneak peek into that, indeed they do, and it's because of a genetic difference in a particular gene and a particular pattern of receptors in the skin that are related to the pigmentation of hair and skin.
让您先睹为快，确实如此，这是因为特定基因的遗传差异以及皮肤中与头发和皮肤色素沉着相关的特定受体模式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we have expectation, anxiety, how well we've slept, where we are in the so-called 24-hour circadian time, and our genes.
所以我们有期望、焦虑、我们的睡眠质量、我们在所谓的 24 小时昼夜节律中的位置，以及我们的基因。
So let's talk about expectation and anxiety because those two factors can powerfully modulate our experience of both pleasure and pain in ways that will allow us to dial up pleasure, if we like, and to dial down pain, if indeed that's what we want to do.
因此，让我们谈谈期望和焦虑，因为这两个因素可以有力地调节我们对快乐和痛苦的体验，如果我们愿意的话，可以让我们增加快乐，如果我们确实想做的话，可以减少痛苦。
So let's talk about expectation and anxiety because those two things are somewhat tethered.
因此，我们来谈谈期望和焦虑，因为这两件事在某种程度上是相互联系的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are now a number of solid experiments both in animal models and in humans that point to the fact that if we know a painful stimulus is coming, that we can better prepare for it mentally and, therefore, buffer or reduce the pain response.
现在在动物模型和人类身上进行的大量可靠实验表明，如果我们知道疼痛刺激即将到来，我们就可以更好地做好心理准备，从而缓冲或减少疼痛反应。
However, the timing in which that anticipation occurs is vital for this to happen.
然而，这种预期发生的时机对于这一切的发生至关重要。
And if that timing isn't quite right, it actually can make the experience of pain far worse.
如果这个时机不太合适，实际上会让疼痛的体验变得更糟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So here, I'm summarizing a large amount of literature, but essentially, if subjects are warned that a painful stimulus is coming, their subjective experience of that pain is vastly reduced.
所以在这里，我总结了大量的文献，但本质上，如果受试者被警告痛苦的刺激即将到来，他们对疼痛的主观体验就会大大减少。
However, if they are warned just two seconds before that pain arrives, it does not help.
然而，如果在疼痛到来前两秒警告他们，那也无济于事。
It actually makes it worse, and the reason is they can't do anything mentally to prepare for it in that brief two-second window.
这实际上让情况变得更糟，原因是他们在这短暂的两秒钟时间内无法在精神上做任何准备。
Similarly, if they are warned about pain that's coming two minutes before a painful stimulus is coming, electric shock or a poke or cold stimulus or heat stimulus that's pretty extreme, that also makes it worse because their expectation ramps up the autonomic arousal.
同样，如果他们在痛苦的刺激到来前两分钟被警告即将到来的疼痛，电击或戳刺或冷刺激或热刺激，这些刺激非常极端，这也会让情况变得更糟，因为他们的期望会增强自主神经的唤醒。
The level of alertness is all funneled toward that negative experience that's coming.
警觉程度全都集中在即将到来的负面体验上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So how soon before a painful stimulus should we know about it, if the goal is to reduce our level of pain?
那么，如果目标是减轻疼痛程度，我们应该在疼痛刺激发生之前多久知道它呢？
And the answer is somewhere between 20 seconds and 40 seconds is about right.
答案是 20 秒到 40 秒之间是正确的。
Now, I'm averaging across a number of different studies, but if you have about 20 seconds or 40 seconds advance warning that something bad is coming, you can prepare yourself for that.
现在，我对许多不同的研究进行了平均，但如果您提前大约 20 秒或 40 秒警告不好的事情即将发生，您就可以为此做好准备。
But the preparation itself and the arousal that comes with it, the kind of leaning in, "Okay, I'm either going to relax myself, or I'm going to really kind of dig my heels in and kind of meet the pain head on," that seems to be the optimal window.
但准备本身以及随之而来的兴奋，那种倾斜，“好吧，我要么让自己放松，要么我真的要坚守阵地，直面痛苦”，这似乎是最佳的窗口。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This can come in useful in a variety of contexts, but I think it's important because what it illustrates is that it absolutely cannot be just the pattern of signals that are arriving from the skin from these DRGs, these neurons that connect to skin that dictate our experience of pain or pleasure.
这在各种情况下都很有用，但我认为这很重要，因为它说明的是，它绝对不仅仅是来自这些 DRG 的皮肤信号模式，这些连接到皮肤的神经元决定了我们对疼痛或快乐的体验。
There has to be a subjective interpretation component, and indeed, that's the case.
必须有一个主观的解释成分，事实上，情况就是如此。
So let's talk about the range of pain experiences, and from that, we will understand better what the range of pleasure experiences are that different people have because we are all different in terms of our pain threshold.
因此，让我们谈谈疼痛体验的范围，由此，我们将更好地理解不同的人所拥有的快乐体验的范围，因为我们的疼痛阈值都不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
First of all, what is pain threshold?
首先，什么是痛阈？
Pain threshold has two dimensions.
痛阈有两个维度。
The first dimension is the amount of mechanical or chemical or thermal stimulation that it takes for you or me or somebody else to say, "I can't take that anymore.
第一个维度是你、我或其他人需要多少机械、化学或热刺激才能说：“我再也受不了了。
I'm done."
我已经完成了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there's another element as well, which is how long the pain persists.
但还有另一个因素，那就是疼痛持续的时间。
I'll just describe myself, for example.
例如，我只描述一下我自己。
I don't consider myself somebody who has a particularly high pain threshold.
我不认为自己是一个具有特别高疼痛阈值的人。
I don't think it's particularly low either, but I wouldn't consider myself somebody that has a particularly high pain threshold.
我也不认为它特别低，但我不认为自己是一个具有特别高疼痛阈值的人。
When I stub my toe against the corner of the bed, it absolutely hurts.
当我的脚趾撞到床角时，真的很痛。
But one thing that I've noticed is that I have very sharp inflections, very high inflections in my perception of pain, and then they go away quickly.
但我注意到的一件事是，我对疼痛的感知有非常尖锐的变化，非常高的变化，然后它们很快就消失了。
Now, I don't know if that's adaptive or not.
现在，我不知道这是否具有适应性。
It's probably not.
可能不是。
But my experience of pain is very intense, but very brief.
但我的痛苦经历非常强烈，但又非常短暂。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Other people experience pain in a much kind of slower rising but longer lasting manner.
其他人会以一种缓慢上升但持续时间更长的方式感受到疼痛。
And to just really point out how varied we all are in terms of our experience of pain, let's look to an experiment.
为了真正指出我们所有人对疼痛的体验有多么不同，让我们看一个实验。
There have been experiments done at Stanford School of Medicine and elsewhere which involved having subjects put their hand into a very cold vat of water and measuring the amount of time that they kept their hand in that water, and then they would tell the experimenter, very quietly, how painful that particular stimulus was on a scale of 1 to 10, so-called Likert scale, for you aficionados.
斯坦福大学医学院和其他地方已经做过实验，让受试者将手放入一桶非常冷的水中，测量他们的手在水中停留的时间，然后他们会非常安静地告诉实验者，这种特定的刺激有多么痛苦，按 1 到 10 的等级，即所谓的李克特量表，对你们的爱好者来说。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That simple experiment revealed that people experienced the same thermal, in this case, cold stimulus vastly different.
这个简单的实验表明，人们经历相同的热刺激，但在这种情况下，冷刺激却截然不同。
Some people would rate it as a 10 out of 10, extreme pain.
有些人会将其评定为十分痛苦（满分 10 分）。
Other people would rate it as barely painful at all, like a one.
其他人会认为它一点也不痛，就像痛一样。
Other people, a three.
其他人，一个三。
Other people, a five, et cetera.
其他人，一个五个，等等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, what's interesting is that the same thing is true for experience of a hot, painful stimulus, 120-degree hot plate, where you have to put your hand on it and then at some point, you remove your hand.
现在，有趣的是，同样的事情也适用于热、痛苦的刺激，120 度的热板，你必须把手放在上面，然后在某个时刻，你移开你的手。
Some people are able to keep their hand on there the whole time, but people rate that experience as very painful, a little bit painful, or moderately painful, depending on who they are.
有些人能够一直把手放在那里，但人们将这种经历评为非常痛苦、有点痛苦或中度痛苦，具体取决于他们是谁。
Now, that's interesting, probably not that surprising, however.
现在，这很有趣，但可能并不那么令人惊讶。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But what is very interesting is that when the same experiment was done on medical doctors, or medical doctors in training, they too, of course, experienced pain through a range of subjective experiences.
但非常有趣的是，当对医生或正在接受培训的医生进行同样的实验时，他们当然也通过一系列主观体验经历了疼痛。
Some of them, just like any other person off the street, said a particular stimulus of a particular temperature was very painful.
他们中的一些人，就像街上的其他人一样，表示特定温度的特定刺激非常痛苦。
Others said it wasn't painful at all, and some said it was moderately painful.
有的人说一点也不痛，有的人说有中度疼痛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that turns out to be vitally important for the treatment of pain because pain is not an event in the skin.
事实证明，这对于治疗疼痛至关重要，因为疼痛不是皮肤上的事件。
Pain is a subjective emotional experience.
疼痛是一种主观的情感体验。
You may have heard that we have a particular category of these DRGs that innervate the skin, which are called nociceptors.
您可能听说过，我们有一类特殊的 DRG 支配皮肤，称为伤害感受器。
Nociceptor comes from the word "nocera," I believe it is, which means to harm.
我相信伤害感受器来自“nocera”这个词，意思是伤害。
However, nociceptors don't carry information about pain.
然而，伤害感受器不携带有关疼痛的信息。
They carry information about particular types of stimuli impacting the skin, and then the brain assigns a value, a valence to it, a label, and says, "That's painful." And where people draw the line between not painful and painful varies.
它们携带有关影响皮肤的特定类型刺激的信息，然后大脑为其分配一个值、价、标签，并说：“这很痛苦。”人们在不痛苦和痛苦之间的界限也各不相同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now because physicians are people, and because physicians treat pain, what we know from a lot of data now is that if someone comes into the clinic and says they're experiencing chronic pain or whole-body pain or acute pain after an injury or one location ...
现在，因为医生也是人，而且因为医生治疗疼痛，所以我们现在从大量数据中了解到，如果有人来到诊所并说他们在受伤或某个部位后正在经历慢性疼痛或全身疼痛或急性疼痛......
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
pain, whole body pain, or acute pain after an injury, or one location.
疼痛、全身疼痛或受伤后或某一部位的急性疼痛。
It doesn't really matter what the cause is, or even if there's a cause at all.
原因是什么并不重要，或者即使有原因也并不重要。
How the doctor reacts to that report of the patient's pain will dictate, in many cases, the course of treatment.
在许多情况下，医生对患者疼痛报告的反应将决定治疗过程。
And of course, doctors, their goal is to treat the patient according to the patient's needs, not their own.
当然，医生们，他们的目标是根据病人的需要来治疗病人，而不是他们自己的需要。
And that's what good doctors do.
这就是好医生所做的。
However, it's been found, and I think now there is work being done to try and change this, but if a doctor has a very high threshold for pain, their interpretation of somebody else's report of pain is going to be different.
然而，它已经被发现，我认为现在正在做一些工作来尝试改变这一点，但如果医生对疼痛的阈值非常高，他们对其他人的疼痛报告的解释将会有所不同。
They might not discount the patient, right?
他们可能不会低估病人，对吗？
This doesn't necessarily mean that they think, "Oh, this person, their pain is irrelevant." Probably not.
这并不一定意味着他们认为，“哦，这个人，他们的痛苦是无关紧要的。”可能不会。
In fact, from having a high threshold for pain, if someone comes in and says, "I'm in extreme pain," that doctor probably thinks, "Wow, this has to be really, really extreme."
事实上，由于疼痛阈值很高，如果有人进来说“我非常痛苦”，医生可能会想，“哇，这一定非常非常痛苦。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But they can be talking about two different experiences.
但他们可以谈论两种不同的经历。
Similarly, if a physician has a very low threshold for pain and someone comes in and says, "I'm experiencing some pain in my back.
同样，如果医生对疼痛的阈值非常低，有人进来说：“我的背部有些疼痛。
I've got the sciatica thing, but it's a little bit uncomfortable.
我有坐骨神经痛，但有点不舒服。
It's like a 4 out of 10." Well, that physician might interpret that 4 out of 10 as a pretty extreme sense of pain, or a pretty extreme experience of pain.
这就像十分之四。”嗯，那位医生可能会将十分之四解释为一种非常极端的疼痛感，或者一种非常极端的疼痛体验。
So you can start to see how the subjective nature of pain can start to have a real impact on the treatment of pain because the treatment of pain is carried out by physicians.
因此，您可以开始了解疼痛的主观性质如何开始对疼痛的治疗产生真正的影响，因为疼痛的治疗是由医生进行的。
In fact, there is no objective measure of pain.
事实上，没有客观的疼痛衡量标准。
We can ask how long somebody can keep their hand on a hot plate, or in a cold bath.
我们可以问一个人可以将手放在热板上或冷水浴中多长时间。
You can do various experiments.
你可以做各种实验。
They even have some extreme experiments where they'll shave a portion of the leg and they'll put on a very painful chemical compound and see how long people can tolerate that.
他们甚至进行了一些极端的实验，他们会剃掉腿的一部分，然后涂上一种非常痛苦的化合物，看看人们能忍受多久。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
These are very uncomfortable experiments as you can imagine.
你可以想象，这些都是非常不舒服的实验。
But in general, we don't have a way of measuring somebody else's subjective experience of pain.
但总的来说，我们没有办法衡量别人对疼痛的主观体验。
There's no blood pressure measure, there are no heart rate beats-per-minute measure of pain.
没有血压测量，也没有每分钟心率来测量疼痛。
So one of the great efforts of neuroscience and of medicine is to try and come up with more objective measures of pain.
因此，神经科学和医学的伟大努力之一就是尝试提出更客观的疼痛测量方法。
Similarly, pleasure is something that we all talk about; "Ooh, that feels so good," or "I love that," or "More of that, please," or "Less of that." But we have no way of gauging what other people are experiencing except what they report through language.
同样，快乐是我们都在谈论的事情； “哦，那感觉真好”，或者“我喜欢那个”，或者“请多一点”，或者“少一点”。但除了他们通过语言报告的内容外，我们无法衡量其他人正在经历什么。
And so this is really just to illustrate that this whole thing around pain isn't a black box.
所以这实际上只是为了说明围绕疼痛的整个事情并不是一个黑匣子。
We do have an understanding of the elements.
我们确实对这些元素有了解。
There are elements in the skin, there are elements in the brain, and there are expectations, anxiety, sleep and genes, but that it is very complicated.
皮肤里有元素，大脑里有元素，还有期望、焦虑、睡眠和基因，但它很复杂。
And yet there are certain principles that fall out of that complicated picture that can allow us to better understand and navigate this axis that we call the pleasure-pain axis.
然而，从这张复杂的图景中得出的某些原则可以让我们更好地理解和驾驭这个我们称之为快乐-痛苦轴的轴。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So rather than focus on just the subjective nature of pain, let's talk about the absolute qualities of pain and the absolute qualities of pleasure, so that we can learn how to navigate those two experiences in ways that serve us each better.
因此，我们不要只关注疼痛的主观本质，而是要讨论疼痛的绝对品质和快乐的绝对品质，以便我们能够学习如何以更好地为我们各自服务的方式驾驭这两种体验。
First of all, I want to talk about heat and cold.
首先，我想谈谈热和冷。
We do indeed have sensors in our skin that respond to heat and cold.
我们的皮肤中确实有对热和冷做出反应的传感器。
And for any of you that have entered a cold shower or a cold body of water of any kind, or an ice bath, et cetera, you will realize that getting into cold is much harder if you do it slowly.
对于任何洗过冷水澡或任何类型的冷水体或冰浴等的人来说，您会意识到，如果您慢慢地洗，变得寒冷会困难得多。
Now, despite that, people tend to do it very slowly.
尽管如此，现在人们往往做得非常慢。
I have noticed an enormous variation with which people can embrace the experience of cold.
我注意到人们对寒冷的感受有很大的差异。
I noticed it because I do some work with athletes, and I do some work with the military, and I do some work with the general public, and one of the best tests of how somebody can handle pain is to ask them to just get into an ice bath.
我注意到这一点是因为我与运动员一起做了一些工作，我与军队一起做了一些工作，我与公众一起做了一些工作，而一个人如何处理疼痛的最佳测试之一就是要求他们进入冰浴。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's not a very sophisticated experience, but it really gets into the core of the kind of circuitry that we're talking about, both in the skin and in the brain.
这不是一种非常复杂的体验，但它确实进入了我们正在谈论的那种电路的核心，无论是在皮肤还是在大脑中。
Some people, regardless of sex, regardless of age, and regardless of physical ability, can just get into the cold.
有些人，无论性别，无论年龄，无论身体能力如何，都会感冒。
They're somehow able to do it.
他们以某种方式能够做到这一点。
Now, I don't know what their experience of the cold is, and neither do you.
现在，我不知道他们对寒冷的体验是什么，你也不知道。
You only know your experience.
只有你的经历你才知道。
But they're able to do that.
但他们有能力做到这一点。
Some do it quickly, some do it slowly.
有些人做得很快，有些人做得很慢。
Others find the experience of cold to be so aversive that they somehow cannot get themselves in.
另一些人则觉得寒冷的经历非常令人厌恶，以至于他们无法融入其中。
They start quaking, they start complaining, and many of them just simply get out.
他们开始颤抖，开始抱怨，其中许多人只是简单地离开了。
They can't do it.
他们做不到。
Some don't even get in past their knees.
有些人甚至没有超过膝盖。
This isn't necessarily about pain threshold, but it's related to that.
这不一定与疼痛阈值有关，但与之相关。
I think it can be helpful to everyone to know that even though it feels better at a mental level to get into the cold slowly, and people ask, "Oh, I just want to get in slowly, I want to take my time," it is actually much worse from a neurobiological perspective.
我认为这对每个人都有帮助，因为尽管慢慢地进入寒冷在精神层面上感觉更好，人们会问，“哦，我只是想慢慢地进入，我想慢慢来”，但从神经生物学的角度来看，实际上要糟糕得多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The neurons that sense cold respond to what are called relative drops in temperature.
感知寒冷的神经元会对所谓的相对温度下降做出反应。
So it's not about the absolute temperature of the water, it's about the relative change in temperature.
因此，这与水的绝对温度无关，而是与温度的相对变化有关。
So as you move from a particular temperature, whether or not it's in the air next to an ice bath or cold shower, or from a body of water that's warm to a body of water that's colder.
因此，当您从特定温度移动时，无论它是在冰浴或冷水淋浴旁边的空气中，还是从温暖的水体转移到较冷的水体。
Or sometimes in the ocean, you'll notice it's warm, and then as you swim out further, you'll get into a pocket of water where it's much colder.
或者有时在海洋中，你会发现天气很温暖，然后当你游得更远时，你会进入一片水，那里的水要冷得多。
That's when the cold receptors in your skin start firing and sending signals up to your brain.
这时，您皮肤中的冷感受器开始发射并向您的大脑发送信号。
Therefore, you can bypass these signals going up to the brain with each relative change, one degree change, two degrees change, et cetera, by simply getting in all at once.
因此，您可以通过一次简单地输入所有相对变化（一度变化、两度变化等）来绕过这些进入大脑的信号。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In fact, it is true ...
事实上，确实如此……
and maybe you've been told this before, and it is true ...
也许你以前就被告知过这一点，而且这是真的......
that if you get into cold water up to your neck, it's actually much more comfortable than if you're halfway in and halfway out, and that's because of the difference in the signals that are being sent from the cold receptors on your upper torso, which is out of the water, and your lower torso.
如果你进入到颈部的冷水中，实际上比半进半出要舒服得多，这是因为你的上躯干（露出水面）和下躯干上的冷感受器发送的信号存在差异。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, I wouldn't want anyone to take this to mean that they should just jump into an unknown body of water.
现在，我不希望任何人认为这意味着他们应该跳入未知的水域。
There are all sorts of factors like currents, and if it's very, very cold, yes indeed, you can stop the heart.
有各种各样的因素，比如水流，如果天气非常非常冷，是的，确实可以让心脏停止跳动。
People can have heart attacks from getting into extremely cold water, like a melted mountain stream that's been frozen all winter or has been very, very cold or has a snowpack going into it.
人们可能会因为进入极冷的水中而患心脏病，比如整个冬天都结冰的融化的山间溪流，或者非常非常冷，或者里面有积雪。
If it's very cold, you can indeed have a heart attack.
如果天气很冷，你确实可能会心脏病发作。
So please be smart about how cold and what bodies of cold water you happen to put yourself into.
因此，请谨慎对待自己所处的冷水有多冷以及哪些冷水体。
But it is absolutely true that provided it's safe, getting into cold water is always going to be easier to do quickly and is going to be easier to do up to your neck.
但绝对正确的是，只要安全，进入冷水总是会更容易快速完成，并且更容易进入颈部。
In fact, you actually want to get your shoulders submerged.
事实上，你确实想让你的肩膀淹没。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are a number of other things you can do if you really want and it's safe to do.
如果您确实愿意并且安全，您还可以做许多其他事情。
You can put your face under and activate this so-called dive reflex, which also makes the tolerance of cold easier, believe it or not.
你可以把脸埋在下面并激活这种所谓的潜水反射，不管你信不信，这也能让你更容易忍受寒冷。
So it's very counterintuitive.
所以这是非常违反直觉的。
It's like getting into cold water faster and more completely you will experience as less uncomfortable, less cold, and indeed that's the case.
这就像更快、更彻底地进入冷水一样，你会感到不那么不舒服，不那么冷，事实确实如此。
And that's because these cold receptors are measuring every relative drop in temperature.
这是因为这些冷感受器正在测量每一次相对的温度下降。
So every single one is graded, as we say in biology; it's not absolute.
因此，正如我们在生物学中所说的那样，每个人都被评分；这不是绝对的。
As an additional point, if you're sitting in a body of cold water and it's not circulating, you'll notice that you start to warm up a little bit.
另外一点，如果您坐在冷水中并且水不循环，您会发现自己开始稍微变暖。
Or even if you feel like you're freezing cold, if you move and that water around you moves, of course, then you'll notice it's got even colder.
或者，即使你感觉自己很冷，如果你移动并且你周围的水移动，当然，你会发现它变得更冷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that's because there's a thermal layer.
那是因为有一个热层。
You're actually heating up the water that surrounds your body like a halo around every aspect of your body, a sort of silhouette of you of heat where you're heating that water.
实际上，你正在加热你身体周围的水，就像你身体各个方面的光环一样，这是你加热水的地方的热剪影。
When you move, you disrupt that thermal layer.
当你移动时，你会破坏热层。
Now, heat is the opposite.
现在，热量则相反。
Heat and the heat receptors in your skin respond to absolute changes in temperature, and this is probably because our body and our brain can tolerate drops in temperature much better than it can tolerate increases in temperature safely.
热量和皮肤中的热感受器会对温度的绝对变化做出反应，这可能是因为我们的身体和大脑对温度下降的耐受性比对温度升高的安全耐受性要好得多。
So when you move from, say, a standard outdoor environment ...
因此，当您离开标准室外环境时......
I mean here in the states, we measure in terms of Fahrenheit, so maybe it's a 75 or 80-degree, or even 90-degree, day ...
我的意思是在美国，我们用华氏度来测量，所以也许是 75 度或 80 度，甚至 90 度的一天......
and you get into a hundred-degree sauna, or if you're in a cool air-conditioned building, and you go outside and it's very warm outside, you sort of feel like the heat hits you all at once.
当你进入一百度的桑拿房，或者如果你在一个凉爽的空调建筑里，当你走到外面时，外面非常温暖，你会感觉热量一下子袭来。
Boom, hits you all at once, kind of like a slap in the face.
轰隆一声，一下子打在你身上，有点像一巴掌打在脸上。
But then it will just stay at that level.
但之后它只会停留在那个水平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Your body will acclimate to that particular temperature.
您的身体会适应该特定温度。
However, if that temperature is very, very high, you'll notice that your experience of that heat and your experience of, kind of, pain and discomfort and your desire to get out of that heat will tend to persist.
然而，如果温度非常非常高，你会注意到你对那种热度的体验、你对某种疼痛和不适的体验以及你想要摆脱那种热度的愿望往往会持续存在。
You don't really adapt in the same way.
你并没有真正以同样的方式适应。
And certain people who are really good at handling very hot sauna get better at this.
某些真正擅长处理高温桑拿的人在这方面做得更好。
You learn to calm your breathing, et cetera, and lower your autonomic arousal.
你学会平静呼吸等等，并降低自主神经的兴奋度。
Obviously, you don't want to let your body temperature go too high because if neurons cook, they die.
显然，你不想让你的体温过高，因为如果神经元被煮熟，它们就会死亡。
If neurons die, they don't come back and that's bad.
如果神经元死亡，它们就不会回来，这很糟糕。
Many people unfortunately harm themselves with hyperthermia.
不幸的是，许多人因高热而伤害了自己。
Everyone has a different threshold for this, but in general, you don't want your body temperature to go up too high.
每个人对此都有不同的阈值，但总的来说，您不希望自己的体温升得太高。
That's why a fever of like 103 starts to become worrisome.
这就是为什么 103 度的发烧开始变得令人担忧。
104, you really get concerned.
104，你真的很担心。
And if it goes up into that range or higher, that's when you need to really cool down the body or get to the hospital so they can cool you down.
如果它上升到这个范围或更高，那就是你需要真正让身体降温或去医院以便他们为你降温的时候。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Heat is measured in absolute terms by the neurons, so gradually moving into heat makes sense, and finding that threshold which is safe and comfortable for you, or if it's uncomfortable at least resides within that realm of safety.
热量是由神经元以绝对值测量的，因此逐渐进入热量是有意义的，并找到对您来说安全和舒适的阈值，或者如果不舒服至少位于该安全范围内。
So that's heat and cold, and those are sort of non-negotiables.
所以这就是热和冷，这些都是不容谈判的。
You can try and lower your level of arousal.
您可以尝试降低唤醒水平。
In fact, many people who get into a cold shower and ice bath, I think the recommendation that I always give is that you have two possible approaches to that.
事实上，对于很多洗冷水澡和冰浴的人来说，我认为我总是给出的建议是，你有两种可能的方法。
You can either try and relax yourself, kind of just stay calm within the cold, or you can lean into it.
你可以尝试放松自己，在寒冷中保持冷静，或者你也可以依靠它。
You can actually take mental steps to generate more adrenaline to kind of meet the demands of that cold.
实际上，你可以采取心理措施来产生更多的肾上腺素来满足感冒的需要。
And at some point, we'll do a whole episode on how to use cold and heat to certain advantages.
在某个时候，我们将制作一整集来介绍如何利用冷和热来发挥某些优势。
We've done a little bit of this in past episodes — using the cold to supercharge human performance and things of that sort.
我们在过去的剧集中已经做了一些这样的事情——利用寒冷来增强人类的表现和类似的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But in general, cold is measured in relative terms, and therefore getting in all at once is a good idea provided you can do it safely.
但一般来说，寒冷是用相对值来衡量的，因此，只要您能够安全地进行，一次全部进入是一个好主意。
And heat is measured in absolute levels by your brain and body, and therefore you want to actually move into it gradually.
热量是由你的大脑和身体以绝对水平测量的，因此你需要逐渐进入它。
So it's kind of the inverse of what you might think.
所以这有点与你的想法相反。
One of the most important things to understand about the experience of pain, and to really illustrate just how subjective pain really is, is that our experience of pain and the degree of damage to our body are not always correlated.
要了解疼痛体验并真正说明主观疼痛的真实程度，最重要的事情之一是我们的疼痛体验和身体受损的程度并不总是相关的。
And in fact, sometimes can be in opposite directions.
事实上，有时可能是相反的方向。
A good example of this would be X-rays.
X 射线就是一个很好的例子。
We all occasionally get X-rays, at least in the U.S. We get X-rays when we go to the dentist from time to time.
我们偶尔都会接受 X 光检查，至少在美国。我们时常去看牙医时会接受 X 光检查。
And the occasional X-ray might be safe, depending on who you are, provided you're not pregnant, et cetera.
偶尔进行 X 光检查可能是安全的，具体取决于您是谁，前提是您没有怀孕等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've gone to the dentist; they put you in the chair, they cover you with the lead blanket, and then they run behind the screen to protect themselves, and they beam you with the X-rays to get a picture of your teeth and your jaws and your skull, et cetera.
我已经去看牙医了；他们把你放在椅子上，用铅毯盖住你，然后跑到屏幕后面保护自己，用 X 光照射你，拍出你的牙齿、下巴和头骨等的照片。
Well, if you were to get too many X-rays, you could severely damage the tissues of your body, but you don't experience any pain during the X-ray itself.
好吧，如果您接受过多的 X 光检查，可能会严重损害身体组织，但在 X 光检查期间您不会感到任何疼痛。
In contrast, you can think that your body is damaged and experienced extreme pain, and yet your body can have no damage.
相反，你可以认为你的身体受到了损害，经历了极大的痛苦，但你的身体不可能没有受到损害。
A classic example of this was published in the British Journal of Medicine, in which a construction worker fell from ...
英国医学杂志上发表了一个典型的例子，其中一名建筑工人从......
I think it was a second story in which he was working, and a nail went up and through his boot.
我认为这是他正在写的第二个故事，一颗钉子竖起并穿过他的靴子。
And he looked down and he saw the nail going through his boot, and he was in absolute excruciating pain.
他低下头，看到钉子穿过他的靴子，他感到极度的疼痛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They took him to the hospital, and because the nail was so long, and because of where it had entered and exited the boot, they had to cut away the boot in order to get to the nail.
他们把他带到医院，由于钉子太长，而且由于钉子进出靴子的位置，他们不得不切掉靴子才能找到钉子。
And when they did that, they revealed that the nail had passed between two of his toes.
当他们这样做时，他们发现钉子已经穿过他的两个脚趾之间。
It had actually failed to impale his body in any way.
它实际上并没有以任何方式刺穿他的身体。
And yet the view, the perception of that nail entering his boot at one end and exiting the boot at the other, was sufficient to create the experience of a nail that had gone through his foot.
然而，这种景象，即钉子一端进入靴子，另一端退出靴子的感觉，足以创造出钉子穿过他脚的体验。
And the moment he realized that that nail had not gone through his foot, the pain completely evaporated.
当他意识到那根钉子没有刺穿他的脚的那一刻，疼痛就完全消失了。
And this has been demonstrated numerous times.
这已经被多次证明。
People that work in emergency rooms actually see variations on this.
在急诊室工作的人们实际上看到了这种情况的变化。
Not always that extreme, but many times what we see and how we perceive that wound or that event has a profound influence on how we experience pain.
并不总是那么极端，但很多时候我们所看到的以及我们如何看待伤口或事件对我们如何体验疼痛有着深远的影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I mention this not just because it's a kind of sensational and fantastic example of this extreme subjective nature of pain, but also because it brings us back to this element which is, we don't know how other people feel, not just about pain but about pleasure.
我提到这一点不仅是因为它是痛苦这种极端主观本质的一个耸人听闻且奇妙的例子，而且还因为它让我们回到了这个元素，即我们不知道其他人的感受，不仅是关于痛苦，而且是关于快乐。
We think we do.
我们认为我们做到了。
We have some general sense of whether or not an event ought to be painful or pleasurable, but actually, we barely understand how we feel, let alone how other people feel.
我们对某件事应该是痛苦的还是快乐的有一些普遍的感觉，但实际上，我们几乎不了解自己的感受，更不用说其他人的感受了。
And we can be badly wrong about how we feel.
我们对于自己的感受也可能是严重错误的。
Meaning we can misinterpret our own sense of pain or our own sense of pleasure, depending on what we see with our eyes and what we hear with our ears.
这意味着我们可能会误解自己的痛苦感或快乐感，这取决于我们用眼睛看到的和用耳朵听到的。
So we hear a scream, like a shrill scream, and we think it must be pain.
所以我们听到一声尖叫，就像一声尖锐的尖叫，我们认为那一定是痛苦。
And if we look at something that's happening to somebody, and it fits a prior category or a prior representation of what we would consider a painful stimulus, well then, we think that they're in extreme pain, but actually, they might not be in pain at all.
如果我们观察某人身上发生的事情，并且它符合我们认为的痛苦刺激的先前类别或先前表征，那么，我们认为他们处于极度痛苦中，但实际上，他们可能根本不痛苦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, this highly subjective nature of pain and the way in which we use our visual system to interpret other people's pain and our own pain has actually been leveraged to treat a very extreme form of chronic pain.
现在，疼痛的这种高度主观的性质以及我们使用视觉系统来解释他人的疼痛和我们自己的疼痛的方式实际上已被用来治疗一种非常极端的慢性疼痛。
And it's an absolutely fascinating area of biology and neuroscience.
这是生物学和神经科学中一个绝对令人着迷的领域。
And it's one that we can actually all leverage toward reducing our own levels of pain whenever we are injured or, believe it or not, even in chronic pain.
每当我们受伤时，或者无论你相信与否，即使是在慢性疼痛中，我们实际上都可以利用它来减轻我们自己的疼痛程度。
To describe this area of science requires a kind of extreme example, but I want to be clear that even if you don't suffer from this extreme example, there's relevance and a tool to extract for you.
描述这个科学领域需要一种极端的例子，但我想澄清的是，即使你没有遇到这种极端的例子，也有相关性和工具可以为你提取。
The extreme example is that of an amputated digit, meaning one of your fingers or your toes, or of an amputated limb.
极端的例子是断指，即一根手指或脚趾，或断肢。
So people that have digits or limbs that are gone, missing from an injury or surgical removal, will often have the experience that it's still there, the so-called phantom limb phenomenon.
因此，那些因受伤或手术切除而失去手指或四肢的人，通常会感觉到它仍然存在，即所谓的幻肢现象。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, why would that be?
现在，为什么会这样呢？
Well, when you remove a particular finger or limb, obviously that finger and limb are gone, and the dorsal root ganglion neuron that would normally send a wire out to that particular region of the body, that wire is no longer there because that portion of the body is no longer there.
好吧，当你移除特定的手指或肢体时，显然该手指和肢体消失了，而通常会向身体的特定区域发送电线的背根神经节神经元，该电线不再存在，因为身体的该部分不再存在。
And in some cases, those neurons die.
在某些情况下，这些神经元会死亡。
Almost always, but not always.
几乎总是如此，但并非总是如此。
However, the map, your so-called homunculus, your representation of yourself in the brain, is still there.
然而，地图，你所谓的小人，你在大脑中的自我表征，仍然在那里。
And this map, the so-called homunculus map, that you have and that I have, is very plastic.
你和我都有的这张地图，即所谓的小人地图，非常具有可塑性。
It can change.
它可以改变。
And so as a consequence, areas of the map that are adjacent to one another can actually start to invade other areas of the map.
因此，地图上彼此相邻的区域实际上可能会开始入侵地图上的其他区域。
So for instance, there are neuroimaging studies that have documented that somebody that has, say, a complete removal of their left arm, the representation of their left arm still exists in the cortex.
例如，有神经影像学研究证明，如果有人完全切除了左臂，那么左臂的表征仍然存在于大脑皮层中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And experimentally, if one is to stimulate that area of the cortex, that person ...
通过实验，如果一个人要刺激大脑皮层的那个区域，那个人......
and if that person were you ...
如果那个人是你...
would experience having that arm; that it was being stimulated, even though it's not there.
会体验拥有那只手臂；尽管它并不存在，但它正在受到刺激。
Now, someone who has an amputated arm doesn't need to have their brain stimulated in order to have the experience of that phantom limb being present.
现在，手臂被截肢的人不需要刺激大脑就能体验到幻肢的存在。
In fact, many people who have limbs that were amputated feel as if that limb is still present, even though obviously it's not.
事实上，许多肢体被截肢的人感觉那条肢体仍然存在，尽管显然事实并非如此。
And no matter how many times they look to the stump,and just see a stump, somehow it doesn't reorganize that homunculus, so-called central brain map.
无论他们看多少次树桩，只看到一个树桩，不知怎的，它并没有重组那个小人，即所谓的中央大脑地图。
Now that would be fine.
现在这样就好了。
You might even think that would be better.
您甚至可能认为这样会更好。
Better to think you have the arm there than to feel as if it's missing.
更好地认为你有手臂，而不是感觉它不见了。
And yet many people who have amputated limbs report phantom limb pain.
然而，许多截肢的人都报告有幻肢痛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They don't feel that the arm is just casually draped next to them.
他们并不觉得手臂只是随意地搭在他们身边。
They feel as if it's bunched up and it's in extreme pain.
他们感觉自己好像被挤成一团，而且极度痛苦。
In fact, this kind of contorted stance that I'm taking right here in my chair is not unlike the way that these patients describe this.
事实上，我坐在椅子上所采取的这种扭曲的立场与这些患者所描述的方式没有什么不同。
They feel as if it's kind of cramped up.
他们感觉好像有点局促。
It's very uncomfortable for them.
这对他们来说非常不舒服。
Now, an absolutely creative, and you could even say genius, scientist, by the name of Ramachandran — that's actually his last name, his complete name is a little bit more complicated.
现在，一个绝对有创造力的人，你甚至可以说天才，科学家，名叫拉马钱德兰——这实际上是他的姓氏，他的全名有点复杂。
So you almost always hear Ramachandran referred to as Ramachandran or V.S.
所以你几乎总是听到 Ramachandran 被称为 Ramachandran 或 V.S.
Ramachandran, because his full name is Vilayanur Subramanian Ramachandran.
拉马钱德兰，因为他的全名是维拉亚努尔·萨勃拉曼尼安·拉马钱德兰。
So a lot of letters in there, a lot of vowels.
里面有很多字母，很多元音。
But Ramachandran is a neuroscientist.
但拉马钱德兰是一位神经科学家。
He was actually a colleague of mine when my lab was formerly at the University of California, San Diego.
当我的实验室以前在加州大学圣地亚哥分校时，他实际上是我的一位同事。
He's done a lot of work on this phantom limb phenomenon.
他对这种幻肢现象做了很多工作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And Ramachandran actually started off as a vision scientist, and he understood the power of the visual system in dictating our experience of things like pain and pleasure.
拉马钱德兰实际上是从视觉科学家开始的，他了解视觉系统在决定我们对痛苦和快乐等事物的体验方面的力量。
And so what he developed was a very low technology yet neuroscientifically sophisticated treatment for phantom limb.
因此，他开发了一种技术含量很低但神经科学上复杂的幻肢治疗方法。
It consisted of a box, literally a box, that had mirrors inside of it.
它由一个盒子组成，实际上是一个盒子，里面有镜子。
And the patient would put the intact hand or limb into one side, and obviously, they couldn't put the amputated limb into the other side, but because of the configuration of the mirrors, it appeared as though they had two symmetric limbs inside the box.
病人会把完整的手或肢体放在一侧，显然，他们不能把截肢放在另一侧，但由于镜子的配置，看起来他们在盒子里有两个对称的肢体。
And then he would have them look at that limb and move it around.
然后他会让他们观察那条肢体并移动它。
And as they would do this, they would report real-time movement, or I should say real-time perception of movement, in the phantom limb.
当他们这样做时，他们会报告幻肢中的实时运动，或者我应该说运动的实时感知。
Now, this is absolutely incredible but makes total sense when you think about the so-called top-down or contextual modulation of our sensory experience.
现在，这绝对令人难以置信，但当你考虑我们的感官体验的所谓自上而下或情境调制时，这是完全有道理的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Remember, it's anticipation, it's anxiety, it's the interpretation of what's happening that drives our perception of what's happening.
请记住，是预期，是焦虑，是对正在发生的事情的解释推动了我们对正在发生的事情的看法。
And so as he would have these patients move their intact limb to a more relaxed position, the patients would feel as if the phantom limb were relaxing.
因此，当他让这些患者将完整的肢体移动到更放松的位置时，患者会感觉幻肢正在放松。
And this was used successfully to treat phantom limb pain in a number of different people.
这已成功用于治疗许多不同人群的幻肢痛。
It didn't always work.
它并不总是有效。
And you can imagine sometimes it might be a little trickier, like for a leg, although there have been leg boxes that have been developed and arranged for this purpose.
你可以想象，有时它可能会有点棘手，比如腿，尽管已经为此目的开发和安排了腿盒。
And what was remarkable is that they could finish these experiments and have the patient, the person, enter a state of relaxation, reduce the pain in the phantom limb, and it would stay there.
值得注意的是，他们可以完成这些实验，让病人、这个人进入放松状态，减轻幻肢的疼痛，并且它会留在那里。
Even though, of course, as they exited the mirror box, they would go about their life and use their intact limb for its various purposes.
当然，尽管如此，当他们离开镜盒时，他们会继续自己的生活，并将完整的肢体用于各种目的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love this experiment because it really speaks to the subjective nature of pain and pleasure.
我喜欢这个实验，因为它确实说明了痛苦和快乐的主观本质。
It speaks to the power of the visual system.
它说明了视觉系统的力量。
Just like the nail through the boot experiment, what we see profoundly impacts our experience of pleasure and pain.
就像钉子穿过靴子的实验一样，我们所看到的东西深刻地影响着我们对快乐和痛苦的体验。
In this case, pain.
在这种情况下，疼痛。
Now there's another aspect to the phantom limb experience and of these maps, the so-called homunculus maps in the cortex, that Ramachandran worked on, which is very interesting and reveals the degree to which these maps are plastic, or can change in response to experience.
现在，幻肢体验和这些地图还有另一个方面，即所谓的皮质中的小人地图，这是拉马钱德兰研究的，这非常有趣，揭示了这些地图的可塑性或可以根据经验而改变的程度。
It turns out that because of the locations of different body part representations within these maps, certain parts of our body that normally we don't think of as related can start to create merged experiences.
事实证明，由于这些地图中不同身体部位表示的位置，通常我们认为不相关的某些身体部位可以开始创建合并的体验。
What do I mean by that?
我这么说是什么意思？
Well, Ramachandran described a patient who had a somewhat odd experience of having lost their foot.
拉马钱德兰描述了一位病人，他有过一种奇怪的失去双脚的经历。
So they actually had their foot amputated about midway up the Achilles, so the lower portion of the calf and foot.
所以他们的脚实际上在跟腱中部被截肢，也就是小腿和脚的下部。
I don't recall what the reason was for having it removed.
我不记得删除它的原因是什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And fortunately for this patient, they did not experience pain in that portion of their body, but rather they confided in him that whenever they would have sex, they would experience their orgasm in their phantom foot.
对于这位患者来说幸运的是，他们并没有在身体的那个部位感到疼痛，而是向他吐露，每当他们发生性行为时，他们都会在幻足中体验到高潮。
In addition to in their genitals, of course.
当然，除了他们的生殖器。
And Ramachandran understood the homunculus map, and he understood that this was because the representation of the foot within the homunculus actually lies adjacent to, and is somewhat interdigitated with — it actually kind of merges with — the representation of the genitalia.
拉马钱德兰理解小人地图，他明白这是因为小人中脚的表示实际上与生殖器的表示相邻，并且在某种程度上与生殖器的表示相交错——实际上有点融合。
Now, that's a weird situation.
现在，情况很奇怪。
And yet you now know that the density of innervation of the feet and the genitalia, as well as the lips and the face, are actually the highest sensory innervation that you have in your entire body.
然而您现在知道，脚和生殖器以及嘴唇和面部的神经支配密度实际上是您整个身体中最高的感觉神经支配。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this speaks to, I think, a more important general principle, for all people, of the experience of pleasure or pain.
我认为，这说明了对于所有人来说，关于快乐或痛苦的体验的一个更重要的一般原则。
Which is that an aspect of our pain or pleasure can be highly localized.
也就是说，我们的痛苦或快乐的某个方面可以高度局部化。
It can be because of a cut to a particular location on the body.
这可能是由于身体特定位置被割伤所致。
Or it can be because of a fall injury, or a kind of bruise on one side of our body.
或者可能是因为跌倒受伤，或者身体一侧有瘀伤。
And yet our experience of pleasure and pain can also be an almost body-wide experience.
然而，我们对快乐和痛苦的体验也可以是一种几乎全身范围的体验。
And yet it's always most rich, it's always most heightened, in these regions of our body that have dense sensory innervation.
然而，在我们身体那些具有密集感觉神经支配的区域，它总是最丰富、最高度的。
So we experience pain and pleasure according to local phenomenon receptors in the skin and this homunculus map that has all these different territories.
因此，我们根据皮肤中的局部现象受体和具有所有这些不同区域的小人图来体验疼痛和快乐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But because of the way that those territories are related, this kind of wild example of somebody experiencing orgasm in their phantom foot speaks to the larger experience, the more typical, rather, experience that I should say, that all people have, which is that pleasure can be body-wide, or we can experience it in our face, the bottoms of our feet and other areas of the body that we experience pleasure, and similarly with pain.
但由于这些领域的相关方式，这种在幻足中体验高潮的疯狂例子说明了更大的体验，我应该说，更典型的体验，所有人都有，那就是快乐可以是全身性的，或者我们可以在我们的脸上、脚底和我们体验快乐的身体其他部位体验到它，同样也可以体验到疼痛。
And that brings us to the topic of whole-body pain, not just localized pain.
这就引出了全身疼痛的话题，而不仅仅是局部疼痛。
As well as whole-body pleasure, not just localized pleasure.
以及全身的快乐，而不仅仅是局部的快乐。
There are a number of examples of whole-body pain that people suffer from, and one common one is called fibromyalgia.
人们遭受的全身疼痛有很多例子，其中一种常见的疼痛称为纤维肌痛。
I want to just first share with you a little bit of medical insight.
我想首先与大家分享一些医学见解。
A few months back I did an Instagram Live with Dr. Sean Mackey, who's an MD, medical doctor, and a Ph.D., at Stanford School of Medicine, that was recorded and placed on my Instagram.
几个月前，我与肖恩·麦基 (Sean Mackey) 博士一起在 Instagram 上进行了直播，他是斯坦福大学医学院的医学博士、医生和博士学位，我录制了这段视频并放在了我的 Instagram 上。
If you want to check it out, we can provide a link to that in the show notes.
如果您想查看，我们可以在演出注释中提供指向该链接的链接。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Dr. Mackey is the Chief of the Division of Pain at Stanford School of Medicine.
麦基博士是斯坦福大学医学院疼痛科主任。
So he's a scientist, he studies pain, and he treats patients dealing with various forms of pain —whole-body pain like fibromyalgia, acute pain, et cetera.
所以他是一名科学家，他研究疼痛，并治疗患有各种形式疼痛的患者——全身疼痛，如纤维肌痛、急性疼痛等。
And he shared with me something very interesting, which is that anytime you hear or see the word syndrome, that means that the medical establishment does not understand what's going on.
他与我分享了一些非常有趣的事情，那就是，任何时候你听到或看到“综合症”这个词，都意味着医疗机构不明白发生了什么。
A syndrome is a constellation of symptoms that point in a particular direction, or some general set of directions, about what could be going on, but it doesn't reveal a true underlying disease necessarily.
综合症是一系列症状，指向可能发生的特定方向或一些一般方向，但它不一定揭示真正的潜在疾病。
It could be an aggregate of diseases, or it could be something else entirely.
它可能是多种疾病的集合，也可能是完全不同的疾病。
And I want to make sure that I emphasize the so-called psychosomatic phenomenon.
我想确保我强调了所谓的心身现象。
I think sometimes we hear "psychosomatic" and we interpret that as meaning "all in one's head."
我认为有时我们听到“心身”，我们将其解释为“一切都在一个人的头脑中”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I think it's important to remember that everything is neural, whether or not it's pain in your body because you have a gaping wound and you're hemorrhaging out of that wound, or whether or not it's pain for which you cannot explain it on the basis of any kind of injury.
但我认为重要的是要记住，一切都是神经性的，无论是因为你有一个裂开的伤口并且伤口正在流血而导致你的身体疼痛，还是你无法根据任何类型的伤害来解释它的疼痛。
It's all neural.
都是神经性的。
So saying body, brain or psychosomatic, it's kind of irrelevant.
所以说身体、大脑或心身，这有点无关紧要。
And I hope someday we move past that language.
我希望有一天我们能够超越这种语言。
Psychosomatic is interesting.
心身学很有趣。
There was a paper that was published in 2015, and then again in 2020 a different paper focused on the so-called psychogenic fevers or psychosomatic effects.
2015 年发表了一篇论文，2020 年又发表了一篇不同的论文，重点关注所谓的心因性发烧或心身效应。
And I just briefly want to mention this because it relates back to pain.
我只想简单地提一下这一点，因为它与疼痛有关。
These studies have shown that there are areas of the so-called thalamus, which integrates and filters sensory information of different kinds, and within the brain stem — an area called the DMH ...
这些研究表明，丘脑中有一些区域可以整合和过滤不同类型的感觉信息，而在脑干内，有一个区域称为 DMH……
and I can also provide a link to this study if you like ...
如果您愿意，我还可以提供该研究的链接......
that shows that there is a true neurological basis; there are brain areas and circuits that are related to what's called psychogenic fever.
这表明存在真正的神经学基础；有些大脑区域和回路与所谓的心因性发烧有关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When we are stressed, and in particular if we think that we were injured, or that we were infected by something, we can actually generate a true fever.
当我们感到压力时，特别是如果我们认为自己受伤了，或者被某种东西感染了，我们实际上会产生真正的发烧。
It is not an imagined fever.
这不是想象中的发烧。
It is our thinking generating an increase in body temperature.
正是我们的思维导致了体温升高。
And so this has been called psychosomatic.
所以这被称为心身。
It's been called psychogenic, but it has a neural basis.
它被称为心因性的，但它有神经基础。
So when we hear "syndrome" and a patient comes into a clinic and says that they suffer, for instance, from something which is very controversial, frankly, like chronic fatigue syndrome — some physicians believe that it reflects a real underlying medical condition, others don't.
因此，当我们听到“综合症”时，一个病人来到诊所，说他们患有一些非常有争议的疾病，坦白地说，比如慢性疲劳综合症——一些医生认为这反映了真正的潜在健康状况，而另一些医生则不这么认为。
However, "syndrome" means we don't understand, and that doesn't mean something doesn't exist.
然而，“综合症”意味着我们不明白，并不意味着某些东西不存在。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Fibromyalgia, or whole-body pain, for a long time, was written off or kind of explained away by physicians and scientists ...
纤维肌痛或全身疼痛很长一段时间被医生和科学家忽略或解释......
frankly, my community ...
坦白说，我的社区...
as one of these syndromes.
作为这些综合症之一。
It couldn't be explained.
这无法解释。
However, now there is what I would consider, and I think others would and should consider, a firm understanding of at least one of the bases for this whole-body pain.
然而，现在我会考虑，我认为其他人也会并且应该考虑，对这种全身疼痛的至少一个基础有一个牢固的理解。
And that's activation of a particular cell type called glia.
这就是一种称为神经胶质细胞的特定细胞类型的激活。
And there's a receptor on these glia, for those of you that want to know, called the Toll 4 receptor.
对于那些想知道的人来说，这些神经胶质细胞上有一个受体，称为 Toll 4 受体。
And activation of the Toll 4 receptor is related to certain forms of whole-body pain and fibromyalgia.
Toll 4 受体的激活与某些形式的全身疼痛和纤维肌痛有关。
Now, what treatments exist for fibromyalgia?
现在，纤维肌痛有哪些治疗方法？
And even if you don't suffer from fibromyalgia, and even if you don't know anyone who does, this is important information.
即使您没有患有纤维肌痛，即使您不认识患有纤维肌痛的人，这也是重要的信息。
Because what I'm about to tell you relates to how you and your body ...
因为我要告诉你的内容与你和你的身体有关......
which is you, of course ...
当然是你……
can deal with pain of any kind.
可以处理任何类型的疼痛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there are actually things that one can do and take that can encourage nerve health, in general, in other conditions like diabetic neuropathy, but in all individuals.
实际上，人们可以做和采取一些事情来促进神经健康，一般来说，在糖尿病神经病变等其他疾病中，但对所有个体来说都是如此。
So there are clinical data using a prescription drug.
因此有使用处方药的临床数据。
This is work that actually was done by Dr. Mackey and colleagues.
这项工作实际上是由麦基博士和同事完成的。
The drug is called naltrexone.
该药物称为纳曲酮。
Naltrexone is actually used for the treatment of various opioid addictions, and things of that sort.
纳曲酮实际上用于治疗各种阿片类药物成瘾等。
But it turns out that a very low dose, I believe it was a one tenth the size of the typical dose of naltrexone, has been shown to have some success in dealing with and treating certain forms of fibromyalgia.
但事实证明，非常低的剂量，我相信它是纳曲酮典型剂量的十分之一，已被证明在处理和治疗某些形式的纤维肌痛方面取得了一些成功。
And it has that success because of its ability to bind to and block these Toll 4 receptors on glia.
它之所以能取得如此成功，是因为它能够结合并阻断神经胶质细胞上的这些 Toll 4 受体。
Okay, so this so-called syndrome, or this thing that previously was called a syndrome, fibromyalgia, actually has a biological basis.
好吧，所以这个所谓的综合症，或者以前被称为综合症的东西，纤维肌痛，实际上是有生物学基础的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was not just in patients' heads.
这不仅仅存在于患者的头脑中。
And I really tip my hat to the medical establishment, including Dr. Mackey and others, who explored the potential underlying biologies of things like fibromyalgia and they are starting to arrive at treatments.
我真的向包括麦基博士和其他人在内的医疗机构致敬，他们探索了纤维肌痛等潜在的潜在生物学原理，并且开始找到治疗方法。
Now, I'm not a physician, I'm a professor, so I'm not prescribing anything.
现在，我不是医生，我是教授，所以我不会开任何处方。
You should talk to your doctor, of course, if you have fibromyalgia or other forms of chronic or whole-body pain to explore whether or not these low-dose naltrexone treatments are right for you.
当然，如果您患有纤维肌痛或其他形式的慢性或全身疼痛，您应该咨询您的医生，以了解这些低剂量纳曲酮治疗是否适合您。
But I think it's a beautiful case study, if you will, not a case study of an individual patient but a case in-study, of linking up the patient's self-report of these experiences and using science to try to establish clinical treatments.
但我认为这是一个很好的案例研究，如果你愿意的话，不是单个患者的案例研究，而是一个正在研究的案例，将患者对这些经历的自我报告联系起来，并利用科学来尝试建立临床治疗。
There's another treatment, or I should say there's another approach that one could take.
还有另一种治疗方法，或者我应该说还有另一种可以采取的方法。
And again, I'm not recommending people do this, necessarily.
再说一次，我并不一定建议人们这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You have to determine what's right and safe for you.
您必须确定什么对您来说是正确且安全的。
I cannot do that.
我不能那样做。
There's no way.
没办法啊
Your situations vary far too much, and it would be outside of my wheelhouse to prescribe anything.
你们的情况差异太大，我无法开出任何处方。
But there's a particular compound which, in the United States, is sold over the counter and in Europe is prescription.
但有一种特殊的化合物，在美国是非处方药，在欧洲是处方药。
It's one that I've talked about on this podcast before for other purposes.
我之前曾出于其他目的在此播客上讨论过这一问题。
And that compound is acetyl-L-carnitine.
该化合物就是乙酰基-L-肉碱。
Acetyl-L-carnitine, as I mentioned, is by prescription in most countries in Europe.
正如我提到的，乙酰左旋肉碱在欧洲大多数国家都是处方药。
In the U.S. you can buy this over the counter.
在美国，您可以在柜台购买。
There is evidence that acetyl-L-carnitine can reduce the symptoms of chronic whole-body pain and other certain forms of acute pain at dosages of somewhere between one to three, and sometimes four grams per day.
有证据表明，乙酰左旋肉碱可以减轻慢性全身疼痛和其他某些形式的急性疼痛的症状，每天的剂量为 1 至 3 克，有时为 4 克。
Now acetyl-L-carnitine can be taken orally.
现在乙酰左旋肉碱可以口服。
It's found in 500-milligram capsules as well as by injection.
它存在于 500 毫克胶囊和注射剂中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
By injection in the States — in the United States, that is — also requires a prescription, or requires a prescription, I should say.
在美国注射——也就是说在美国——也需要处方，或者说需要处方，我应该说。
The over-the-counter forms are generally capsules or powders.
非处方形式通常是胶囊或粉末。
Those apparently do not require a prescription.
这些显然不需要处方。
There are several studies exploring acetyl-L-carnitine in this context, as well as for diabetic neuropathy.
有几项研究探讨了乙酰左旋肉碱在这方面的作用以及糖尿病神经病变的作用。
And what's interesting about acetyl-L-carnitine is it's one of the few compounds that isn't just used for the treatment of pain but has also been shown, in certain contexts, to improve peripheral nerve health generally.
乙酰左旋肉碱的有趣之处在于，它是少数不仅用于治疗疼痛，而且在某些情况下还可以改善周围神经健康的化合物之一。
And for that reason, it's an interesting compound.
因此，它是一种有趣的化合物。
I've also talked about acetyl-L-carnitine on here previously because it has robust effects on things like sperm motility and health, including the speeds at which sperm swim, how straight they swim.
我之前也在这里讨论过乙酰左旋肉碱，因为它对精子活力和健康等方面有强大的影响，包括精子游动的速度、游动的直线程度。
Turns out that swimming, for sperm, is more efficient if they swim straight as opposed to like those kids on the swim team that are, like, banging up against the lane lines and zigzagging all over the place.
事实证明，对于精子来说，如果它们直线游动，那么游泳的效率会更高，而不是像游泳队里的那些孩子那样，在泳道线上撞击并到处曲折。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it does turn out to be the case that the quickest route between any two places is a straight line, and the good sperm know that and the less good sperm don't seem to know that.
所以事实证明，任何两个地方之间的最快路线是一条直线，而好的精子知道这一点，而不太好的精子似乎不知道这一点。
And acetyl-L-carnitine seems to facilitate straight swimming trajectories as well as the speed of swimming and overall sperm health.
乙酰左旋肉碱似乎有利于直线游泳轨迹以及游泳速度和精子的整体健康。
And there is evidence from quality peer-reviewed studies showing that acetyl-L-carnitine supplementation can also be beneficial for women's fertility, in ways that it affects, perhaps — we don't really know the mechanism — health and status of the egg, or egg implantation.
来自高质量同行评审研究的证据表明，补充乙酰左旋肉碱也有利于女性的生育能力，其影响方式可能是——我们并不真正了解其机制——卵子的健康和状态，或卵子着床。
There are a large number of studies on acetyl-L-carnitine.
关于乙酰左旋肉碱有大量的研究。
You can look those up on PubMed if you like, or on examine.com.
如果您愿意，您可以在 PubMed 或 exam.com 上查找这些内容。
There are some studies that I don't think are included there which are particularly interesting.
有一些我认为没有包含在内的特别有趣的研究。
One that I just would like to reference, the last name of the first author is Mahdavi.
我只想参考一下，第一作者的姓氏是 Mahdavi。
So M-A-H-D-A-V-I.
所以M-A-H-D-A-V-I。
The title of the paper is "Effects of l-carnitine supplementation on serum inflammatory markers and matrix metalloproteinase enzymes in females with knee osteoarthritis."
论文的标题是“补充左旋肉碱对膝骨关节炎女性血清炎症标志物和基质金属蛋白酶的影响”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So this is a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled pilot study that showed really interesting effects of short-term supplementation of acetyl-L-carnitine.
这是一项随机、双盲、安慰剂对照的试点研究，显示了短期补充乙酰左旋肉碱的真正有趣的效果。
Longer term, the effects were less impressive.
从长远来看，效果并不那么令人印象深刻。
So it's pretty interesting that this compound has so many different effects.
因此，这种化合物具有如此多种不同的作用，这非常有趣。
How could it have these effects?
怎么会有这些效果呢？
Well, it appears that it's having these effects through its impact on the so-called inflammatory cytokines.
嗯，看来它是通过影响所谓的炎症细胞因子来产生这些作用的。
Inflammatory cytokines for those of you that ...
炎症细胞因子对于那些...
PART 1 OF 3 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 1 部分（共 3 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
...
...
called inflammatory cytokines.
称为炎症细胞因子。
Inflammatory cytokines, for those of you that don't know, are secreted by the immune system in response to different stressors, physical stressors, mental stressors, too, food that you eat that isn't good for you.
对于那些不知道的人来说，炎症细胞因子是由免疫系统分泌的，以应对不同的压力源，包括身体压力源、精神压力源以及您吃的对您不利的食物。
The so-called hidden sugars, yes, will increase inflammation if they're ingested too often, or in amounts that are too high in quantity.
是的，如果摄入过多或摄入过多，所谓的隐藏糖会加剧炎症。
Things like interleukin 1 beta, things like C-reactive protein, things like interleukin 6.
像白细胞介素 1 beta 之类的东西、C 反应蛋白之类的东西、白细胞介素 6 之类的东西。
Interleukin 6 is kind of the generic inflammatory marker that all studies refer to, and yet there are other interleukins.
白细胞介素 6 是所有研究都提到的通用炎症标记物，但还有其他白细胞介素。
Please note that there are other interleukins, like interleukin 10, that are anti-inflammatory.
请注意，还有其他白细胞介素（如白细胞介素 10）具有抗炎作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So our immune system can secrete inflammatory molecules to deal with wounds and stress and things, and in the short term that's good, and in the long term that's bad.
因此，我们的免疫系统可以分泌炎症分子来处理伤口、压力等，从短期来看这是好事，从长远来看则是坏事。
And it can secrete anti-inflammatory cytokines like IL-10.
并且它可以分泌IL-10等抗炎细胞因子。
And these matrix metalloproteases — it's kind of a mouthful — but these matrix metalloproteases are very interesting.
这些基质金属蛋白酶——有点拗口——但这些基质金属蛋白酶非常有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Anytime you see A-S-E, ase, that's generally an enzyme, which means that these compounds — in this case, these matrix metalloproteases — are used to break down certain elements around wounds and scarring.
任何时候你看到 A-S-E、ase，这通常是一种酶，这意味着这些化合物（在本例中为这些基质金属蛋白酶）用于分解伤口和疤痕周围的某些元素。
Which might sound like a bad thing but in some cases is good, because it allows certain cells like glial cells, so-called microglia, to come in like little ambulances, like little paramedics, and clean up wounds.
这听起来可能是一件坏事，但在某些情况下是件好事，因为它允许某些细胞，如神经胶质细胞，即所谓的小胶质细胞，像小救护车、小护理人员一样进来，清理伤口。
So scarring and inflammation is kind of a double-edged sword.
因此，疤痕和炎症是一把双刃剑。
It can be good, but too much scarring, if it contains a wound too much, doesn't allow the infiltration of cell types to move in and take care of that wound and heal it up.
它可能是好的，但太多的疤痕，如果它包含太多的伤口，不允许细胞类型渗透进入并照顾伤口并使其愈合。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it appears that L-carnitine is impacting a number of different processes, both to impact pain and, perhaps — and I want to underscore perhaps, but there are good studies happening now — perhaps accelerate wound healing as well.
因此，左旋肉碱似乎正在影响许多不同的过程，既能影响疼痛，也可能——我想强调，但现在正在进行一些很好的研究——或许还能加速伤口愈合。
As long as we're talking about acute pain and chronic pain and supplementation and nonprescription drugs, at least in the United States, that people can take to deal with pain of various kinds, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the two that I get asked most often about, which are agmatine and S-adenosylmethionine, which is sometimes called SAM-e.
只要我们谈论急性疼痛和慢性疼痛以及补充剂和非处方药，至少在美国，人们可以服用它们来应对各种疼痛，如果我没有提到我最常被问到的两种药物，即胍丁胺和 S-腺苷甲硫氨酸（有时称为 SAM-e），那就是我的失职。
Both of those have been shown to have some impact, categorized on examine.com, as notable impact on various forms of pain, due to osteoarthritis or due to injury of various kinds, in different subject population, men, women, people of different ages, et cetera.
这两者都已被证明具有一定的影响，在 Examiner.com 上分类为对不同形式的疼痛（由于骨关节炎或各种损伤）、不同的受试者群体（男性、女性、不同年龄的人等）有显着影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
SAM-e in particular has been interesting, because it's been shown head-to-head with drugs like naproxen, and other drugs of that sort, which are well established and sold over the counter in the U.S., to work at least as well as some of those compounds at certain dosages.
SAM-e 尤其令人感兴趣，因为它与萘普生等药物以及其他同类药物（这些药物在美国已经很成熟并在柜台上出售）进行了正面交锋，在一定剂量下至少与其中一些化合物一样有效。
But it's also been shown that SAM-e and some of those things take more time in order to have those effects.
但事实也表明，SAM-e 和其中一些东西需要更多时间才能产生这些效果。
In fact, head-to-head with things like naproxen, have been shown that they can take up to a month in order to have the pain-relieving effect.
事实上，与萘普生等药物的正面交锋已表明，它们可能需要长达一个月的时间才能产生止痛效果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, whether or not that makes them a better choice or a worse choice really depends on your circumstances.
现在，这是否使它们成为更好的选择或更糟糕的选择实际上取决于您的情况。
I'm certainly not recommending that anybody take anything, but I do think it's interesting and important to point out that things like agmatine, things like SAM-e have been shown, under certain circumstances, to be beneficial for pain.
我当然不是建议任何人服用任何药物，但我确实认为指出像胍丁胺、SAM-e 这样的药物在某些情况下对缓解疼痛有益，这一点很有趣也很重要。
And they are outside the realm of prescription drugs.
而且它们不属于处方药的范围。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think this is a growing area of, some people call them supplements, some people call them nutraceuticals.
我认为这是一个不断增长的领域，有些人称之为补充剂，有些人称之为营养保健品。
Look, at the end of the day, these are compounds that affect cellular processes, and the more that we understand how they affect those cellular processes, as we now do for things like acetyl-L-carnitine, I think the more trust that we can put into them, or the more to which we might want to avoid them because of some of the side effects or contraindications that those compounds could have.
看看，归根结底，这些是影响细胞过程的化合物，我们对它们如何影响这些细胞过程了解得越多，就像我们现在对乙酰左旋肉碱这样的东西所做的那样，我认为我们对它们的信任度越高，或者我们越可能希望避免它们，因为这些化合物可能具有一些副作用或禁忌症。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're interested in those other compounds, I do invite you, as I always do, to check out examine.com, but also to do your research on those compounds by simply putting them into Google or putting them into PubMed, which would be even better.
如果您对这些其他化合物感兴趣，我确实邀请您像往常一样访问检查网站，但也可以通过简单地将它们放入 Google 或将它们放入 PubMed 来对这些化合物进行研究，这会更好。
And if you are going to go into PubMed, if you're going to start playing scientists, which I do encourage you to do, I would encourage you to not just read abstracts, but if you can, ifthe studies are freely available — I realize not all of them are freely available — to try and read those studies, at least to the extent that you can.
如果你要进入 PubMed，如果你要开始扮演科学家的角色（我确实鼓励你这样做），我会鼓励你不仅阅读摘要，而且如果可以的话，如果研究是免费提供的——我意识到并非所有研究都是免费提供的——尝试阅读这些研究，至少在你可以的范围内。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's a particularly nice study that you might look at that was published in 2010 in Pain Medicine, which is Keynan et al, K-E-Y-N-A-N, which looked at the safety and efficacy of dietary agmatine sulfate on lumbar disc associated radiculopathy — not laughing at the condition; it's a painful condition that describes, it's a kind of a range of symptoms that relate to pinching of nerves in the spinal columns.
有一项特别好的研究你可能会看一下，该研究发表于 2010 年的《疼痛医学》杂志上，该研究是 Keynan 等人的 K-E-Y-N-A-N，该研究研究了饮食中硫酸胍丁胺对腰椎间盘相关神经根病的安全性和有效性——而不是嘲笑这种情况；这是一种痛苦的情况，描述了一系列与脊柱神经受压有关的症状。
I was laughing at my pronunciation of it.
我在嘲笑我的发音。
That particular study is quite good.
那个特别的研究非常好。
And the conclusion of that study that they drew was that there were limited side effects and that dietary agmatine sulfate is safe and efficacious for treating and alleviating pain and improving quality of life and lumbar disc associated pain.
他们得出的研究结论是，副作用有限，并且膳食硫酸胍丁胺对于治疗和减轻疼痛、改善生活质量和腰椎间盘相关疼痛是安全有效的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
However, there were very specific dosage regimens, excuse me, that were described there, and duration of treatment.
然而，抱歉，那里描述了非常具体的剂量方案和治疗持续时间。
And so you should not take anything that I say, or that study to mean that you can just take this stuff willy-nilly or at any concentration, of course, or dose.
因此，你不应该认为我所说的任何内容或该研究意味着你可以随意服用这些东西，当然也可以以任何浓度或剂量服用。
You always want to pay attention to what the science says.
你总是想关注科学的说法。
That paper, fortunately, is freely available online and we will also provide a link to that study.
幸运的是，该论文可以在网上免费获取，我们还将提供该研究的链接。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For those of you that are interested in SAM-e and its usage for the treatment of various types of pain, and perhaps other benefits, a number of companies have stopped making SAM-e.
对于那些对 SAM-e 及其用于治疗各种疼痛以及可能还有其他益处感兴趣的人来说，许多公司已经停止生产 SAM-e。
Instead, what they're now focusing on is what they think is a better, or more bioavailable, alternative, which is 5-methyltetrahydrofolate, or 5-MTHF.
相反，他们现在关注的是他们认为更好或生物利用度更高的替代品，即 5-甲基四氢叶酸 (5-MTHF)。
This molecule is necessary for converting homocysteine to methionine, which is then converted to SAM-e.
该分子是将同型半胱氨酸转化为蛋氨酸所必需的，然后甲硫氨酸再转化为 SAM-e。
So rather than taking SAM-e directly, the idea is to take something that's upstream of SAM-e and make more SAM-e endogenously available.
因此，我们的想法不是直接采用 SAM-e，而是采用 SAM-e 上游的某些东西，并使更多的 SAM-e 内生可用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is a different strategy — I've talked about this strategy before for increasing other things like growth hormone, et cetera.
这是一种不同的策略——我之前已经讨论过这种策略，用于增加其他物质，如生长激素等。
There's always this question of whether or not, in trying to increase the amount of a particular molecule in the body, whether or not taking that specific molecule is the best thing, or working further upstream, as it's referred to, working on the precursor, or increasing the levels of the precursor, is the better way to go.
始终存在这样的问题：在尝试增加体内特定分子的数量时，服用该特定分子是否是最好的方法，或者进一步向上游工作，正如它所提到的，对前体进行作用，或增加前体的水平，是更好的方法。
It appears that this 5-MTHF is the strategy that people are now taking in place of taking SAM-e directly.
看来这个5-MTHF是人们现在采取的代替直接服用SAM-e的策略。
So in other words, they're taking this in order to get elevated levels of SAM-e.
换句话说，他们这样做是为了提高 SAM-e 的水平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, I'd like to turn our attention to a completely nondrug, nonsupplement-related approach to dealing with pain.
现在，我想把我们的注意力转向一种完全非药物、非补充剂相关的治疗疼痛的方法。
And it's one that has existed for thousands of years, and that only recently has the Western scientific community started to pay serious attention to, but they have started to pay serious attention to it.
而且它已经存在了几千年了，直到最近西方科学界才开始认真关注，但是他们才开始认真关注它。
And there is terrific mechanistic science to now explain how and why acupuncture can work very well for the treatment of certain forms of pain.
现在有很棒的机械科学可以解释针灸如何以及为什么可以很好地治疗某些形式的疼痛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, first off, I want to tell you what was told to me by our director or chief of the pain division at Stanford School of Medicine, Dr. Sean Mackey, which was that some people respond very well to acupuncture and others do not.
现在，首先，我想告诉你斯坦福大学医学院疼痛科主任或主任肖恩·麦基博士告诉我的话，那就是有些人对针灸反应很好，而另一些人则不然。
And the challenge is identifying who will respond well and who won't respond well.
挑战在于确定谁会做出很好的反应，谁不会做出很好的反应。
Now, when I say, "Won't respond well," that doesn't necessarily mean that they responded in a negative way, that it was bad for them.
现在，当我说“不会做出很好的反应”时，这并不一定意味着他们以消极的方式做出反应，这对他们不利。
But it does appear that a fraction of people experienced tremendous pain relief from acupuncture, and others experience, not at all or very little, to the point where they have to seek out other forms of treatment.
但似乎确实有一小部分人从针灸中体验到了巨大的疼痛缓解，而其他人则完全没有或很少体验到疼痛，以至于他们不得不寻求其他形式的治疗。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The science on this is still ongoing.
关于这一点的科学仍在继续。
There's actually an excellent paper published on this in the Journal of the American Medical Association, one of the premier medical clinical journals, and it basically reinforced the idea that you have responders and non-responders.
实际上，在顶级医学临床期刊之一的《美国医学会杂志》上发表了一篇关于此的优秀论文，它基本上强化了“有反应者和无反应者”的观点。
A number of laboratories have started to explore how acupuncture works.
许多实验室已经开始探索针灸的作用原理。
And one of the premier laboratories for this is Qiufu Ma's lab at Harvard Medical School.
哈佛医学院马秋福实验室是这方面最重要的实验室之一。
Qiufu has spent many years studying the pain system, and a system that's related to the pain system, which is the system that controls our sensation of itch.
求福花了很多年的时间研究疼痛系统，以及与疼痛系统相关的系统，即控制我们瘙痒感的系统。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just as a brief aside about itch.
就像关于痒的简短说明一样。
Itch and pain are often co-associated with one another.
瘙痒和疼痛通常是相互关联的。
I was recently in Texas, and I will tell you they have some mean mosquitoes.
我最近在德克萨斯州，我会告诉你他们有一些可怕的蚊子。
They're small, but whatever they're injecting into your skin ...
它们很小，但无论它们注射到您的皮肤中......
Well, here I am talking now about my subjective experience of pain.
好吧，我现在在这里谈论我对疼痛的主观体验。
Whatever they injected into my skin felt to me like the most extreme mosquito bites I've ever had.
无论他们注射到我皮肤里的是什么，对我来说都像是我经历过的最严重的蚊子叮咬。
Not while they were biting me, not while they were injecting the venom, but, boy, do those Texan mosquitoes make me itch.
不是在他们咬我的时候，不是在他们注射毒液的时候，但是，天啊，那些德克萨斯州的蚊子让我发痒了。
How do they do it?
他们是如何做到的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, their venom creates little packets of so-called histamine that travel around.
嗯，它们的毒液会产生所谓的组胺小包，并四处传播。
Those packets are called mast cells.
这些包被称为肥大细胞。
Little packets of histamine that go to that location and make me, and presumably you, want to scratch those mosquito bites.
小包的组胺到达那个位置，让我，想必还有你，想要抓那些蚊虫叮咬的地方。
I scratch mine.
我抓我的。
You scratch yours.
你抓你的。
But we both scratch our mosquito bites.
但我们都抓挠蚊虫叮咬处。
And when we do that, the histamines are released that gets red and inflamed and they itch even worse.
当我们这样做时，组胺就会被释放出来，使皮肤变红、发炎，而且瘙痒得更厉害。
The inflammation is actually caused by the histamine.
炎症实际上是由组胺引起的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, that experience of inflammation and pain and itch is what we call a prurogenic experience.
好吧，那种炎症、疼痛和瘙痒的体验就是我们所说的致泌尿道体验。
Okay?
好的？
So we have pain, which is nociception, essentially.
所以我们有疼痛，本质上就是伤害感受。
I know that the pain aficionados always get a little upset, because they say, "Oh, there's no such thing as a pain receptor.
我知道疼痛爱好者总是有点不安，因为他们说，“哦，没有疼痛感受器这样的东西。
It's nociceptive receptors, and pain is subjective experience." Yes, I acknowledge all that, but for fluency, let's just think about pain as a certain experience and itch as a separate experience, but they often exist together because those mosquito bites were what I would call painful or at least not pleasant.
它是伤害性感受器，而疼痛是主观体验。”是的，我承认所有这些，但为了流畅起见，让我们将疼痛视为一种特定的体验，将瘙痒视为一种单独的体验，但它们经常同时存在，因为那些蚊子叮咬就是我所说的痛苦或至少不愉快。
They didn't just itch.
他们不只是痒。
They were also painful.
他们也很痛苦。
And that's because itch brings with it inflammation.
那是因为瘙痒会带来炎症。
And inflammation often brings with it pain relief, but it can also bring with it the sensation of pain.
炎症通常会带来疼痛缓解，但也会带来疼痛感。
So itch and pain are two separate phenomenon.
因此，瘙痒和疼痛是两种不同的现象。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was actually discovered through a really interesting phenomenon that relates to something that is actually consumed in supplement form, which is this tropical legume.
它实际上是通过一个非常有趣的现象发现的，该现象与实际以补充剂形式消耗的东西有关，即热带豆类。
It's actually a bean called Mucuna pruiens, that's M-U-C-U-N-A, that's one word, P-R-U-I-E-N-S, Mucuna pruiens, is a bean.
它实际上是一种叫做Mucuna pruiens的豆子，即M-U-C-U-N-A，就是一个词，P-R-U-I-E-N-S，Mucuna pruiens，是一种豆子。
It's this legume, this bean is 99% L-dopa.
就是这个豆类，这个豆子99%是左旋多巴。
It's dopamine or rather it's the precursor to dopamine.
它是多巴胺，或者更确切地说，它是多巴胺的前体。
And people buy this stuff and take it over the counter as ways to increase their levels of dopamine.
人们购买这种东西并在柜台上购买，作为增加多巴胺水平的方法。
It does make you feel really dopamined out.
它确实会让你感到多巴胺耗尽。
I mean it makes you feel a little high and really motivated and really energetic.
我的意思是，它会让你感觉有点兴奋，充满动力，充满活力。
A lot like other drugs that will do that.
就像其他药物一样可以做到这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't necessarily recommend taking Mucuna pruiens.
我不一定建议服用黧豆。
I personally don't like taking, it doesn't make me feel good.
我个人不喜欢带，它不会让我感觉良好。
I crash really hard when I take it.
当我接受它时，我真的崩溃了。
But on the outside of this bean is a compound that makes people itch.
但这颗豆子的外面却有一种让人发痒的化合物。
So they remove this when you take it in supplement form.
因此，当您以补充剂形式服用时，他们会将其删除。
In fact, it's usually in capsule form.
事实上，它通常是胶囊形式。
But the outside of this bean, it's like a hairy bean, and those little hairs contain a compound which was actually used to study and identify these itch receptors in the skin.
但这种豆子的外面，就像一颗毛茸茸的豆子，那些小毛含有一种化合物，实际上用于研究和识别皮肤中的这些瘙痒受体。
So we don't have time to go into all the details of itch, but it's pretty interesting that you have these compounds out in nature that can make us itch.
所以我们没有时间详细讨论瘙痒的所有细节，但很有趣的是，自然界中存在这些可以使我们瘙痒的化合物。
Inside them they have dopamine.
它们体内含有多巴胺。
I mean this is really weird, but plant compounds are really powerful.
我的意思是这真的很奇怪，但植物化合物确实很强大。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So don't let anyone tell you that, because something's from a plant or an herb that it's not powerful.
所以不要让任何人告诉你这一点，因为某些东西来自植物或草药，它并不强大。
There are very powerful plant and herb compounds.
有非常强大的植物和草药化合物。
Mucuna pruiens being one of them, with dopamine on the inside and itchy stuff on the outside.
黧豆就是其中之一，里面含有多巴胺，外面含有发痒的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now what does this all have to do with acupuncture?
那么这一切与针灸有什么关系呢？
Well, Qiufu Ma's lab has not just identified the itch pathway, these pruritogens as they're called, which cause itch and the prurigenic phenomenon of itch being separate from pain.
嗯，马秋福的实验室不仅确定了瘙痒途径，这些所谓的瘙痒原会引起瘙痒以及瘙痒与疼痛分离的瘙痒现象。
His lab has also studied how acupuncture causes relief of, but also can exacerbate pain.
他的实验室还研究了针灸如何缓解疼痛，但也会加剧疼痛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, the form of acupuncture that they explored was one that's commonly in use called electroacupuncture.
现在，他们探索的针灸形式是一种常用的针灸疗法。
So this isn't just putting little needles into different parts of the body.
所以这不仅仅是将小针插入身体的不同部位。
These needles are able to pass an electrical current, not magically, but because they have a little wire going back to a device and you can pass electrical current.
这些针能够传递电流，这并非神奇，而是因为它们有一根小电线返回到设备，因此您可以传递电流。
Here's what they found.
这是他们的发现。
This is a study, excuse me, published in the journal Neuron, Cell Press journal, excellent journal, very high stringency.
这是一项研究，请问，发表在《Neuron》杂志上，《Cell Press》杂志，优秀的杂志，严格性非常高。
So what Qiufu Ma's lab found was that if electroacupuncture is provided to the abdomen, to the stomach area, it creates activation of what are called the sympathetic ganglia.
马秋福的实验室发现，如果对腹部、胃部区域进行电针治疗，就会激活所谓的交感神经节。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
These have nothing to do with sympathy in the emotional sense, has to do with the stress response, sympa just means together.
这些与情感意义上的同情无关，与应激反应有关，sympa只是在一起的意思。
So it activated a bunch of neurons along the spinal cord.
所以它激活了脊髓沿线的一堆神经元。
And the activation of these neurons involves noradrenaline and something called N-P-Y, neuropeptide Y.
这些神经元的激活涉及去甲肾上腺素和一种叫做 N-P-Y 的神经肽 Y。
The long and short of it is that stimulating the abdomen with electroacupuncture was either anti-inflammatory or could cause inflammation.
总而言之，用电针刺激腹部要么可以抗炎，要么可能引起炎症。
It could actually exacerbate inflammation depending on whether or not it was of low or high intensity.
它实际上可能会加剧炎症，具体取决于炎症强度是低还是高。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, that makes it a very precarious technique, and this may speak to some of the reason why some people report relief from acupuncture and others do not.
现在，这使得它成为一种非常不稳定的技术，这可能说明了为什么有些人报告针灸缓解了症状，而另一些人却没有。
However, they went a step further and stimulated other areas of the body using electroacupuncture.
然而，他们更进一步，用电针刺激身体的其他部位。
And what they found is that stimulation of the legs, of the hind limbs, as it's called in animals and the legs in humans, caused a circuit, a neural circuit to be activated that goes from the legs up to an area of the base of the brain called the DMV, not the DMH, which I mentioned earlier, but the DMV, like you go, the DMV, which is a miserable experience for most people.
他们发现，对腿部、后肢的刺激（动物和人类的腿部被称为腿部）会引起一个回路，一个被激活的神经回路，从腿部一直到大脑底部的一个区域，称为DMV，不是我之前提到的DMH，而是DMV，就像你说的那样，DMV，这对大多数人来说是一种痛苦的经历。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Forgive me, DMV employees, but let's be honest, most people don't enjoy going to the DMV as patrons, but we have to, so we go.
请原谅我，DMV 员工，但说实话，大多数人不喜欢作为顾客去 DMV，但我们必须这样做，所以我们去了。
The DMV and low intensity stimulation, this electroacupuncture of the hind limbs, activated the DMV and activated the adrenal glands, which sit at top of your kidneys, and caused the release of what are called catecholamines.
DMV 和低强度刺激（即后肢电针疗法）会激活 DMV 并激活位于肾脏顶部的肾上腺，并导致儿茶酚胺的释放。
And those were strongly anti-inflammatory.
这些具有很强的抗炎作用。
In other words, electroacupuncture of the legs and feet can, if done correctly, be anti-inflammatory and reduce symptoms of pain.
换句话说，如果操作正确，腿部和足部的电针可以起到抗炎作用并减轻疼痛症状。
And can, we think, accelerate wound healing, because activations of these catecholaminergic pathways can accelerate wound healing as well.
我们认为，可以加速伤口愈合，因为这些儿茶酚胺能途径的激活也可以加速伤口愈合。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the takeaway from this is that, while there are thousands of years and millions of subjects involved in explorations of electroacupuncture and acupuncture, Western medicine is starting to come into this and start to explore underlying mechanism.
因此，从中得出的结论是，虽然电针和针灸已有数千年的历史，数以百万计的受试者参与了探索，但西医却开始涉足这一领域并开始探索潜在的机制。
Now, for those of you that love acupuncture and are real proponents of it, it's worked for you, you might say, "Well, why does Western medicine even need to come into this?
现在，对于那些热爱针灸并且真正支持针灸的人来说，它对你有用，你可能会说，“那么，为什么西医甚至需要介入这个领域呢？
Why should they even be exploring this?" But we should all be relieved that they are.
他们为什么要探索这个？”但我们都应该松一口气。
Because what's starting to happen now is that as the mechanistic basis for this is starting to come to light, insurance coverage of things like acupuncture is starting to emerge as well.
因为现在开始发生的事情是，随着其机制基础开始显现，针灸等保险范围也开始出现。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this is in contrast to other therapies for which there's a lot of anecdotal evidence, but very little mechanistic understanding.
这与其他疗法形成鲜明对比，其他疗法有很多轶事证据，但对机制的理解却很少。
One example of that would be laser photobiomodulation, the use of lasers of different types really to treat pain and to accelerate wound healing.
其中一个例子是激光光生物调节，即使用不同类型的激光真正治疗疼痛并加速伤口愈合。
A lot of people claim that this can really help them.
很多人声称这确实可以帮助他们。
However, most places, at least in the States, won't cover this with insurance or don't perform this in standard clinics.
然而，大多数地方，至少在美国，不会用保险来承保这种情况，或者不在标准诊所进行这种治疗。
And the reason is the underlying mechanism isn't known.
原因是根本机制尚不清楚。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm not going to get into the argument about whether or not mechanistic understanding should or should not be required in order to have insurance coverage of things that work.
我不会讨论是否应该或不应该需要机械理解才能为有效的事情提供保险。
That's not what this is about.
这不是重点。
And that actually would be a boring discussion, because I'm shouting at a tunnel through you and I wouldn't be able to hear you shout back, no matter what your stance on that is.
这实际上是一个无聊的讨论，因为我对着穿过你的隧道大喊大叫，而无论你对此持什么立场，我都听不到你的回应。
But just trust me when I say that I am both relieved and delighted to hear that excellent medical institutions like Stanford are starting to think about electroacupuncture and how it can work.
但请相信我，当我说听到像斯坦福大学这样的优秀医疗机构开始考虑电针及其工作原理时，我感到既欣慰又高兴。
That places like Harvard Medical School are starting to explore this at a mechanistic level.
像哈佛医学院这样的地方开始在机械层面上对此进行探索。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I do believe that there's an open-mindedness that's starting to emerge.
我确实相信一种开放的心态正在开始出现。
For instance, the National Institutes of Health, not only has a institute for mental health and cancer research and an eye institute, but now complementary health, the so-called NCCIH, National Institutes of Complementary Health.
例如，美国国立卫生研究院不仅有一个心理健康和癌症研究所和一个眼科研究所，现在还增加了补充健康，即所谓的NCCIH，美国国立补充健康研究所。
That is exploring things like electroacupuncture, meditation, various supplements and things of those sort.
那就是探索诸如电针、冥想、各种补充剂之类的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do think that we're entering a new realm in which things like pain and pain management will be met with more openness by all physicians, at least that's my hope.
我确实认为我们正在进入一个新的领域，在这个领域中，所有医生都会更加开放地对待诸如疼痛和疼痛管理之类的事情，至少这是我的希望。
So please take that into consideration.
所以请考虑到这一点。
Right now, the mechanistic evidence for laser photobiomodulation is not strong.
目前，激光光生物调节的机制证据并不充分。
One of the major issues or the barriers to that is that most of the studies that are out there were actually paid for by companies that build devices for laser photobiomodulation.
主要问题或障碍之一是，大多数研究实际上是由制造激光光生物调制设备的公司支付的。
And so we really need independent studies funded by federal institutions that have no bias or financial relationship in order to gain trust in whatever data happened to emerge.
因此，我们确实需要由没有偏见或财务关系的联邦机构资助的独立研究，以便获得对发生的任何数据的信任。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There is a technique that at one time was considered alternative, but now has a lot of mechanistic science to explain how it works.
有一种技术一度被认为是替代技术，但现在有大量的机械科学来解释它的工作原理。
And it does indeed work for the treatment of chronic and also for acute pain.
它确实适用于治疗慢性疼痛和急性疼痛。
And that treatment is hypnosis, in particular self-hypnosis.
这种治疗方法就是催眠，特别是自我催眠。
My colleague at Stanford, in fact my collaborator, Dr. David Spiegel, our Associate Chair of Psychiatry, has devoted his professional life to developing hypnosis tools that people can use to help them sleep better, focus better, stay motivated, et cetera.
我在斯坦福大学的同事，实际上是我的合作者，我们的精神病学副主任大卫·斯皮格尔博士（David Spiegel）将他的职业生涯奉献给了开发催眠工具，人们可以用这些工具来帮助他们更好地睡眠、更好地集中注意力、保持积极性等等。
While most people hear hypnosis and they think, "Oh, this is stage hypnosis, people walking around like chickens or being forced to laugh or fall asleep on command, et cetera."
大多数人听到催眠后会想，“哦，这是舞台催眠，人们像小鸡一样走来走去，或者按照命令被迫大笑或入睡，等等。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is completely different than all that.
这与所有这一切完全不同。
This is self-hypnosis.
这就是自我催眠。
And there are now dozens, if not more, quality peer-reviewed studies published in excellent journals, done by Dr. Spiegel and others at other universities.
现在，斯皮格尔博士和其他大学的其他人在优秀期刊上发表了数十项（如果不是更多的话）高质量的同行评审研究。
It really all has to do with how self-hypnosis can modulate activity of the prefrontal cortex, and related structures like the insula.
这实际上与自我催眠如何调节前额皮质和岛叶等相关结构的活动有关。
The prefrontal cortex is involved in our executive function, as it's called, are planning our decision making, but also how we interpret context, what the meaning of a given sensation is.
前额叶皮层参与我们的执行功能，正如它所说的那样，规划我们的决策，但也参与我们如何解释上下文，以及给定感觉的含义是什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that's extremely powerful.
这是非常强大的。
Just want to remind everybody that the currency of the brain and body has not changed in hundreds of thousands of years.
只是想提醒大家，大脑和身体的货币数十万年来都没有改变。
It's always been dopamine, serotonin, glutamate, GABA, testosterone, estrogen.
一直是多巴胺、血清素、谷氨酸、GABA、睾酮、雌激素。
What's changed are the contingencies, the events in the world that drive whether or not we get an increase or decrease in testosterone or estrogen.
改变的是偶然事件，世界上的事件决定我们的睾酮或雌激素是否增加或减少。
The events in the world that dictate whether or not we get an increase or a decrease in dopamine.
世界上发生的事件决定了我们的多巴胺是否增加或减少。
Believe me, the events that drove those increases and decreases were very different even a hundred years ago than they are now.
相信我，推动这些增加和减少的事件即使在一百年前也与现在有很大不同。
And as we create new things and societies change, et cetera, they will continue to exchange information in the same currency, which is dopamine, serotonin, and all these other neuromodulators and chemicals.
当我们创造新事物和社会发生变化等等时，他们将继续以同一种货币交换信息，即多巴胺、血清素以及所有其他神经调节剂和化学物质。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hypnosis takes advantage of this by allowing an individual, you, if you like, to change the way that you interpret particular events and to actually experience what would be painful as less painful or not painful.
催眠利用这一点，允许一个人，你，如果你愿意的话，改变你解释特定事件的方式，并实际体验到疼痛减轻或不疼痛。
And that's just the example of pain.
这只是痛苦的例子。
Hypnosis is powerful for other reasons too.
催眠之所以强大还有其他原因。
It actually can help rewire neural circuits, so that you don't experience as much pain, so that you can sleep faster, focus faster.
它实际上可以帮助重新连接神经回路，这样你就不会经历那么多疼痛，这样你就可以睡得更快，注意力更快。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If this is all sounding very fantastical, well, it's supported by data.
如果这一切听起来非常梦幻，那么这是有数据支持的。
The data are that when people do self-hypnosis, even brief self-hypnosis of 10 or 15 minutes, a few times a week, maybe even return to that hypnosis by just using a one minute a day hypnosis, they can achieve significant, and often very impressive degrees of pain relief in chronic pain, whether or not that chronic pain arises through things like fibromyalgia or through other sources.
数据表明，当人们进行自我催眠时，即使是每周几次短暂的 10 或 15 分钟的自我催眠，甚至可能通过每天一分钟的催眠回到催眠状态，他们也可以实现显着且通常非常令人印象深刻的慢性疼痛缓解程度，无论慢性疼痛是否由纤维肌痛等原因或其他来源引起。
If you want to check this out, there's a wonderful zero-cost resource that's grounded in this work.
如果您想查看这一点，有一个基于这项工作的精彩零成本资源。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's the app reveri.com, so R-E-V-E-R-I.com.
这是应用程序 reveri.com，即 R-E-V-E-R-I.com。
There you can download a zero-cost app for Apple phones or for Android phones.
您可以在那里下载适用于 Apple 手机或 Android 手机的零成本应用程序。
And there are a variety of different hypnosis scripts.
并且有多种不同的催眠脚本。
These are actually self-hypnosis scripts, and you'll actually hear Dr. David Spiegel talking to you.
这些实际上是自我催眠脚本，您实际上会听到大卫·斯皮格尔博士在与您交谈。
He can teach you about hypnosis and how it works.
他可以教你有关催眠及其原理的知识。
There are links to scientific studies at that web address that I gave you before reveri.com.
我之前给您的 reveri.com 网址上有科学研究的链接。
You can see the various studies and the various write-ups related to those studies and how this all works.
您可以看到各种研究和与这些研究相关的各种文章以及这一切是如何运作的。
And they're simple protocols.
它们是简单的协议。
You just click on a tab and you listen to the self-hypnosis and it will take you into hypnosis.
你只需点击一个选项卡，你就会听到自我催眠的声音，它就会带你进入催眠状态。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And several of those hypnosis scripts have been shown clinically to relieve certain patterns of chronic pain.
其中一些催眠脚本已被临床证明可以缓解某些慢性疼痛。
So it's a powerful tool, and I encourage you not to write off the nondrug, nonsupplement tools as less than powerful, because indeed many people experience tremendous relief from them.
所以它是一个强大的工具，我鼓励你不要认为非药物、非补充剂工具不够强大，因为确实有很多人从它们中得到了巨大的缓解。
And of course they also can be combined with drug treatments if that's right for you or with supplements and things of that sort to treat pain, if that's right for you.
当然，如果适合您，它们也可以与药物治疗相结合，或者如果适合您，也可以与补充剂和类似的药物相结合来治疗疼痛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So again, electroacupuncture, now, often supported by insurance, not always, but often, great mechanistic data starting to emerge.
再说一遍，电针疗法现在通常得到保险的支持，虽然并非总是如此，但经常，伟大的机械数据开始出现。
Hypnosis, terrific tool.
催眠，很棒的工具。
There's even the self-hypnosis tool that one can access through the zero-cost app Reveri, and lots of great clinical data and scientific mechanistic data.
甚至还有可以通过零成本应用程序 Reveri 访问的自我催眠工具，以及大量重要的临床数据和科学机制数据。
There are neuroimaging studies showing that different brain areas are activated in hypnosis.
有神经影像学研究表明，不同的大脑区域在催眠中被激活。
The so-called default network, where your brain kind of idles, and the different circuits that are active at rest shift with hypnosis and shift long term in ways that positively can serve you.
所谓的默认网络，你的大脑在其中处于闲置状态，而在休息时活跃的不同电路会随着催眠而发生变化，并以长期为你提供积极服务的方式发生变化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then these things like laser photo biomodulation, still more or less in that experimental medical community, I should say Western medical community, not so certain.
然后像激光光生物调节这样的东西，或多或少仍然在那个实验医学界，我应该说西方医学界，不太确定。
But, hopefully, there will be data soon, and, hopefully, those data will point to mechanisms that allow the insurance companies and other sort of medical bodies to support them, if indeed they have a mechanistic basis.
但是，希望很快就会有数据，并且希望这些数据将指出允许保险公司和其他类型的医疗机构支持他们的机制，如果它们确实有机械基础的话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I just want to briefly touch on a common method of pain relief that speaks to a more general principle of how things like electroacupuncture and also some of these new emerging techniques of kind of active tissue release and this principle that you hear a lot about in sports medicine now that when you have pain or injury at one site that you should provide pressure above and below that site.
我只是想简单地谈谈一种常见的止痛方法，它涉及一种更普遍的原理，例如电针以及一些新兴的活性组织释放技术，以及您在运动医学中经常听到的这一原理，即当您在某个部位出现疼痛或受伤时，您应该在该部位的上方和下方施加压力。
You may have seen this in the Olympics, which is ongoing now, where people will put tape on their body at certain locations.
你可能在现在正在进行的奥运会上看到过这种情况，人们会在身体的某些位置贴上胶带。
Oftentimes, the logic or what they're saying is that this is designed to create relief in a joint or in a limb that's below the tape, not necessarily under the tape, but above or below.
通常，逻辑或他们所说的是，这是为了在胶带下方的关节或肢体中创建缓解效果，不一定是在胶带下方，而是在胶带上方或下方。
So for instance, if there's pain in one shoulder, sometimes we will put it on the trapezius muscle or things of that sort.
例如，如果一侧肩膀疼痛，有时我们会把它放在斜方肌或类似的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It turns out that there is a basis for this.
事实证明，这是有依据的。
Because of the way that these different nerves run in from the skin and from the muscles up into the spinal cord and into the brain stem, providing pressure on one nerve pathway can often impact another pathway.
由于这些不同的神经从皮肤和肌肉进入脊髓和脑干的方式不同，对一条神经通路施加压力通常会影响另一条神经通路。
And the simplest and most common example of this is one that we all do instinctually or intuitively even animals do this.
最简单和最常见的例子是我们都本能或直觉地这样做，甚至动物也会这样做。
This is something that in the textbooks is all is called the gate theory of pain, developed by Melzack and Wall — kind of classic theory.
这在教科书中都被称为疼痛之门理论，是由梅尔扎克和沃尔提出的——一种经典理论。
Basically, we have receptors in our skin, the so-called C fibers, that's just a name for these little wires that come from a particular class of DRGs that's very thin, that brings about certain kinds of nociceptor information.
基本上，我们的皮肤中有受体，即所谓的 C 纤维，这只是这些小电线的名称，这些小电线来自一类非常细的特定 DRG，会带来某些类型的伤害感受器信息。
I want to say pain information.
我想说的是痛苦的信息。
But then the pain people, believe it or not, there are pain people.
但痛苦的人，不管你信不信，确实有痛苦的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sometimes they're pain, because what they tell me is, "There aren't pain receptors." Okay, nociceptors, that information comes in through these C fibers.
有时它们是疼痛，因为它们告诉我的是，“没有疼痛感受器。”好吧，伤害感受器，信息通过这些 C 纤维传入。
And what happens when we injure something?
当我们伤害某些东西时会发生什么？
Well, provided that we won't damage it worse by touching it.
好吧，前提是我们不会因触摸它而对其造成更严重的损坏。
Oftentimes, what we will do is we will rub the source of pain or the location in which we were experiencing pain.
通常，我们会做的就是摩擦疼痛的根源或疼痛的部位。
And it turns out that's not an unuseful thing to do.
事实证明这并不是一件无用的事情。
When we rub our skin or an area or we provide pressure nearby it, we activate the so-called A fibers, the bigger wires and neurons that innervate, meaning they jut into that area of skin.
当我们摩擦皮肤或某个区域，或者在其附近施加压力时，我们会激活所谓的 A 纤维，即更大的神经线和神经元，这意味着它们会伸入该皮肤区域。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And those A fibers, the ones that respond to mechanical pressure, actually are able to inhibit those C fibers, the ones that are carrying the so-called pain information.
那些对机械压力做出反应的 A 纤维实际上能够抑制那些携带所谓疼痛信息的 C 纤维。
So rubbing an area or providing pressure above or below an injury actually provides real pain relief support for the location of that injury or that pain, because of the way that these different patterns or these different types of neurons interact with one another.
因此，摩擦某个区域或在损伤上方或下方施加压力实际上可以为该损伤或该疼痛的位置提供真正的疼痛缓解支持，因为这些不同的模式或这些不同类型的神经元彼此相互作用的方式。
And when I say it inhibits it, I don't mean that it shouts at it.
当我说它抑制它时，我并不是说它对它大喊大叫。
What it does, it releases, it literally kind of like vomits up a little bit of a neurotransmitter called GABA, and GABA's a neurotransmitter that inhibits, it quiets the activity of other neurons.
它的作用是释放，实际上有点像吐出一点点叫做 GABA 的神经递质，而 GABA 是一种抑制神经递质，它可以让其他神经元的活动安静下来。
And so it's acting as kind of an analgesic, if you will.
所以如果你愿意的话，它可以起到镇痛剂的作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's acting as its own form of drug that you make with your body to quiet the activity of these pain neurons.
它本身就是一种药物，是你用身体制造的，可以平息这些疼痛神经元的活动。
So rubbing a wound, provided it doesn't damage the wound worse, or providing pressure above or below, typically, it's above a particular injury, can have a real effect in relieving some of the pain of that injury.
因此，摩擦伤口，只要它不会对伤口造成更严重的伤害，或者在上方或下方提供压力（通常是在特定伤害之上），可以对缓解该伤害的一些疼痛产生真正的效果。
And some people have speculated this is through fascia or this is through other bodily organs and tissues.
有些人推测这是通过筋膜或其他身体器官和组织。
And it might be, we're going to do a whole episode on fascia.
可能我们会制作一整集关于筋膜的内容。
It's extremely interesting tissue.
这是非常有趣的组织。
But right now it seems that the main source of that pain relief is through this A fiber inhibition of these C fibers, so called Melzack and Wall gate theory of pain, if you'd like to look it up and learn about that further.
但现在看来，缓解疼痛的主要来源是通过 A 纤维对 C 纤维的抑制，即所谓的梅尔扎克和墙门疼痛理论，如果您想查找并进一步了解的话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, let's talk about a phenomenon that has long intrigued and perplexed people for probably thousands of years.
现在，让我们来谈谈一个可能长期以来一直引起人们好奇和困惑的现象。
And that's redheads.
那是红发。
You may have heard before that redheads have a higher pain threshold than other individuals.
您以前可能听说过红发人比其他人有更高的疼痛阈值。
And indeed that is true.
确实如此。
There's now a study that looked at this mechanistically.
现在有一项研究从机制上研究了这一点。
There's a gene called the MC1R gene.
有一个基因叫做MC1R基因。
And this MC1R gene encodes for a number of different proteins.
这个 MC1R 基因编码许多不同的蛋白质。
Some of those proteins, of course, are related to the production of melanin.
当然，其中一些蛋白质与黑色素的产生有关。
This is why redheads often, not always, but often are very fair skinned, sometimes have freckles, not always, and of course have red hair.
这就是为什么红发经常（并非总是）但通常皮肤非常白皙，有时有雀斑（并非总是），当然还有红头发。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people are really intense gingers, not psychologically or emotionally intense, perhaps that too, but meaning their hair is very, very red.
有些人确实是强烈的红发族，但心理或情感上并不强烈，也许也是如此，但这意味着他们的头发非常非常红。
Others, it's a lighter red.
其他人则为浅红色。
So of course there's variation here.
所以这里当然存在差异。
But this gene, this MC1R gene is associated with a pathway that relates to something that I've talked about on this podcast before, during the episode on hunger and feeding, and this is POMC.
但是这个基因，这个 MC1R 基因与一条通路有关，这条通路与我之前在这个播客上谈论过的有关饥饿和进食的节目中谈到的一些东西有关，这就是 POMC。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
POMC stands for proopiomelanocortin.
POMC 代表阿黑皮素原。
And POMC is cut up, it's cleaved, into different hormones, including one that enhances pain perception.
POMC 被分解成不同的激素，其中包括一种增强疼痛感知的激素。
This is melanocyte-stimulating hormone, and another one that blocks pain, beta-endorphin.
这是一种刺激黑素细胞的激素，也是另一种可以抑制疼痛的激素，即β-内啡肽。
Now if you listen to the episodes on testosterone and estrogen, and the episodes on hunger and feeding, some of these molecules will start to ring a bell.
现在，如果你听关于睾酮和雌激素的剧集，以及关于饥饿和进食的剧集，其中一些分子会开始敲响警钟。
Things like melano-stimulating hormone relate to pigmentation in the skin, relate to sexual arousal, et cetera.
像黑色素刺激激素这样的物质与皮肤色素沉着、性唤起等有关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it turns out that in redhead, because of the fact that they have this gene, this MC1R gene, the POMC, proopiomelanocortin, that's cut into different hormones, melanocyte-stimulating hormone, and another one, beta-endorphin.
但事实证明，在红发女郎中，因为他们有这个基因，这个MC1R基因，POMC，阿黑皮素原，被切割成不同的激素，黑素细胞刺激激素，和另一种，β-内啡肽。
Beta-endorphin should cue you to the fact that this is in the pain pathway.
β-内啡肽应该提示您这样一个事实：它位于疼痛通路中。
The endorphins are endogenously made, meaning, made within our body, opioids.
内啡肽是内源性产生的，也就是说，是在我们体内产生的阿片类药物。
They actually make us feel numb in response to certain kinds of pain.
它们实际上让我们对某些类型的疼痛感到麻木。
Now, not completely numb, but they numb or reduce our perception of pain, because of the ways in which they are released from certain brain centers.
现在，它们还没有完全麻木，但它们会麻木或减少我们对疼痛的感知，因为它们从某些大脑中心释放的方式。
We'll talk about those brain centers in a moment.
我们稍后将讨论这些大脑中心。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what's really interesting is that this study showed that the presence of these hormones is in everybody.
真正有趣的是，这项研究表明每个人体内都存在这些激素。
We all have melanocortin 4, we all have beta-endorphins, we all have POMC, et cetera.
我们都有黑皮质素 4，我们都有 β-内啡肽，我们都有 POMC，等等。
But redheads make more of these endogenous endorphins.
但红头发的人会产生更多的内源性内啡肽。
And that's interesting, it allows them to buffer against the pain response.
有趣的是，它可以让它们缓冲疼痛反应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have a personal anecdote to share with you about this redhead and heightened levels of pain tolerance phenomenon.
我有一个个人轶事要与大家分享，关于红头发和高水平的疼痛耐受性现象。
Obviously, I'm not a redhead, I don't dye my hair, but my partner for many years was a redhead, and still is a redhead.
显然，我不是红发，我不染发，但我多年的伴侣是红发，现在仍然是红发。
She had bright red hair and had that since childhood.
她有一头鲜红的头发，从小就有。
Well, we had the fortunate experience of becoming friends with Wim Hof and family.
嗯，我们有幸与 Wim Hof 及其家人成为朋友。
They actually came out to visit us and did a series of seminars in the Bay Area.
他们实际上来拜访我们并在湾区举办了一系列研讨会。
This was in 2016, as I recall.
我记得那是2016年的事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And my partner, she had never done an ice bath.
我的伴侣，她从来没有洗过冰浴。
She had never done any kind of real cold water exposure experience before.
她以前从未有过任何真正的冷水暴露体验。
But at one particular gathering, as is often the case when Wim is around, there was an ice bath and a number of people were getting into this thing.
但在一次特定的聚会上，就像维姆在场时经常发生的情况一样，有一场冰浴，很多人都参与其中。
This was actually before a dinner event.
这实际上是在晚宴活动之前。
And I think for most people who have never done an ice bath, getting in for 30 seconds or a minute is tolerable.
我认为对于大多数从未洗过冰浴的人来说，泡 30 秒或一分钟是可以忍受的。
But it takes some effort, takes some willpower and take some overcoming that that pain barrier, because it is a little bit painful, not a lot.
但这需要一些努力，需要一些意志力，需要一些克服疼痛障碍，因为它只是一点点痛苦，而不是很多。
Some people can stay in longer, three minutes, five minutes without much discomfort.
有些人可以停留更长的时间，三分钟、五分钟，没有太大不适。
What was incredible is that without any desire to compete with anybody else, my partner, redhead, got into the ice bath and just sat there for 10 minutes.
令人难以置信的是，我的红发搭档没有任何与其他人竞争的欲望，就进入冰浴，坐在那里10分钟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In fact, at one point she just kind of turned to me and said, "I don't really feel pain.
事实上，有一次她只是转向我说：“我真的感觉不到疼痛。
I'm not really in pain." And Wim loved this.
我其实并不痛苦。”维姆喜欢这个。
Wim thought it was great.
维姆认为这很棒。
He thought it was like the most terrific thing in the world.
他认为这是世界上最棒的事情。
And he got back in the ice bath and they became fast friends.
当他回到冰浴中时，他们成了好朋友。
And I think they're probably still fast friends.
我认为他们可能仍然是好朋友。
So in any event, that's an n-of-1, what we call anecdata example.
所以无论如何，这都是一个 n-of-1，我们称之为 anecdata 示例。
Anecdata is not really a term that we should use too much, because it's n-of-1.
Anecdata 实际上并不是一个我们应该过多使用的术语，因为它是 n-of-1。
Anecdotes are just that.
轶事就是这样。
They're just anecdotes.
它们只是轶事。
But it's been described many times in various clinics, where by anesthesiologists, by observation of coaches, et cetera, that redheads, men and women who are redheads, seem to have this higher pain threshold.
但在不同的诊所里，麻醉师、教练等的观察已经多次描述过，红发的男人和红发的女人似乎有更高的疼痛阈值。
And it does seem to be because their body naturally produces ways to counter the pain response.
这似乎确实是因为他们的身体自然地产生了对抗疼痛反应的方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They produce their own endogenous opioids.
他们产生自己的内源性阿片类药物。
Now, this of course, should not be taken to mean that redheads can tolerate more pain and therefore should be subjected to more pain.
当然，这并不意味着红发可以忍受更多的疼痛，因此应该承受更多的疼痛。
All it means is that their threshold for pain on average, not all of them, but on average is shifted higher than that of other individuals.
这意味着他们的平均疼痛阈值（不是全部，但平均而言）比其他人更高。
And it remains to be determined whether or not other light skin, light haired individuals also have a heightened level of pain threshold.
其他浅色皮肤、浅色头发的人是否也有较高的疼痛阈值仍有待确定。
And I should mention, because I mentioned the ice bath, that of course pain threshold is something that can be built up.
我应该提到，因为我提到了冰浴，当然疼痛阈值是可以建立的。
And provided you to do that safely in ways that aren't damaging your tissues, because of course pain is a signal that is designed to help you to keep from harming yourself.
并且前提是您以不损伤组织的方式安全地做到这一点，因为疼痛当然是一种信号，旨在帮助您避免伤害自己。
But-
但是——
PART 2 OF 3 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 2 部分（共 3 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
That is designed to help you to keep from harming yourself, but provided that you can do that in a way that's safe and doesn't damage your tissues.
其目的是帮助您避免伤害自己，但前提是您能够以安全且不会损坏组织的方式做到这一点。
Increasing your pain threshold through the use of things like ice baths is something that really can be done.
通过使用冰浴等方法来提高疼痛阈值确实是可以做到的。
It has a lot to do with these contextual or top-down modulations of the experience.
它与这些体验的上下文或自上而下的调制有很大关系。
You can tell yourself that this is good for me or I'm doing this by choice or whatever it is.
你可以告诉自己这对我有好处，或者我这样做是出于选择或者其他什么。
You could distract yourself.
你可以分散自己的注意力。
There are a huge number of different ways that one could do that.
有很多不同的方法可以做到这一点。
One of the more interesting ways for which there are actually really good scientific data, come from my colleague Sean Mackey's lab, and that actually looked at how love, and in particular the experience of obsessive love, could actually counter the pain response, not just in redheads but in everybody.
一种更有趣的方法，实际上有很好的科学数据，来自我的同事肖恩·麦基的实验室，它实际上研究了爱，特别是痴迷的爱的体验，如何能够真正对抗疼痛反应，不仅是红头发的人，而是每个人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, that study, I'll just briefly describe.
因此，我将简要描述该研究。
It involved having people come into the laboratory and experience any one or a number of different painful stimuli.
它涉及让人们进入实验室并体验任何一种或多种不同的痛苦刺激。
But they had selectively recruited subjects that were in new relationships for which there was a high degree of infatuation, so much so, that the people couldn't stop thinking about or communicating with that new partner, up to 80% of their waking time, which is a lot.
但他们有选择性地招募了处于新恋情中的受试者，这些受试者对新恋情有高度的迷恋，以至于人们无法停止思考或与新伴侣交流，高达 80% 的醒着时间，这是很多时间。
That constant obsessing about that partner was correlated with, it wasn't causal necessarily, but was correlated with the ability to sustain higher levels of pain than people who were in more typical non-obsessive forms of love, longstanding relationships where there wasn't obsessive love rather.
对伴侣的持续痴迷是相关的，这不一定是因果关系，但与那些处于更典型的非强迫性爱形式、长期关系中没有强迫性爱的人相比，与承受更高程度的痛苦的能力相关。
And of course, in this study there were a lot of good control groups.
当然，在这项研究中有很多很好的对照组。
They included distractor, they included people obsessing about other things, their pet, et cetera.
其中包括干扰因素，包括沉迷于其他事物的人、他们的宠物等等。
They included other forms of love and attachment.
其中包括其他形式的爱和依恋。
But it does seem that certain patterns of thinking can allow us to buffer ourselves against the pain response, and that should not be surprising.
但某些思维模式似乎确实可以让我们缓冲疼痛反应，这不足为奇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Certain forms of thinking are associated with the release of particular neuromodulators, in particular dopamine.
某些思维形式与特定神经调节剂（尤其是多巴胺）的释放有关。
And dopamine, it may seem as kind of the thing that underlies everything, but it's not.
多巴胺似乎是一切事物的基础，但事实并非如此。
Dopamine is a molecule that's associated with novelty expectation, motivation and reward.
多巴胺是一种与新奇期望、动机和奖励相关的分子。
We talked about this at the beginning of the episode, that it's really the molecule of expectation and motivation and hope and excitement, more than it's associated with the receival of the reward.
我们在本集开始时谈到了这一点，它实际上是期望、动机、希望和兴奋的分子，而不是与获得奖励有关。
Well, dopamine is coursing throughout the brain at heightened levels and coursing throughout the body at heightened levels when we fall in love.
当我们坠入爱河时，多巴胺会以更高的水平在大脑中流动，并以更高的水平在全身流动。
This probably has some adaptive mechanism that ensure pair bonding between people, or who knows, maybe it insured not bonding to multiple people.
这可能有一些适应性机制来确保人与人之间的结对关系，或者谁知道呢，也许它可以确保不与多个人建立关系。
Nobody really knows how dopamine functions in terms of pair bonding.
没有人真正知道多巴胺在配对方面如何发挥作用。
But it is known that when people fall in love, new relationships create very high levels of dopamine, and that's probably the mechanistic basis by which these people were able to buffer the pain response by thinking about their partner, this new relationship that they're in, almost obsessively or obsessively.
但众所周知，当人们坠入爱河时，新的关系会产生非常高水平的多巴胺，这可能是这些人能够通过几乎痴迷或着迷地思考他们的伴侣、他们所处的这种新关系来缓冲疼痛反应的机制基础。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now that raises a deeper question we should always be asking, "Yeah, but how?
现在这就提出了一个更深层次的问题，我们应该总是问：“是的，但是怎么做呢？
How?" Well, the dopamine system can have powerful effects on the inflammation system.
怎么办？”嗯，多巴胺系统可以对炎症系统产生强大的影响。
And it doesn't do this through mysterious ways.
它并不是通过神秘的方式做到这一点。
It does this by interacting through the brainstem and some of the neurons that innervate the spleen and other areas of the body that deploy cells to go combat infection, inflammation and pain.
它通过脑干和一些神经元相互作用来实现这一点，这些神经元支配脾脏和身体其他区域，这些区域部署细胞来对抗感染、炎症和疼痛。
And the ways in which dopamine can modulate pain, and in this case, this particular study transform our experience of pain, maybe even into something that's pleasureful, is not mysterious.
多巴胺调节疼痛的方式，在这种情况下，这项特殊的研究将我们的疼痛体验转变为快乐的体验，这并不神秘。
It's really through the activation of brainstem neurons that communicate with areas of our body, that deploy things like immune cells.
它实际上是通过激活脑干神经元来与我们身体的各个区域进行通信，从而部署免疫细胞等物质。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So for instance, we have neurons in our brainstem that can be modulated by the release of dopamine.
例如，我们脑干中的神经元可以通过多巴胺的释放进行调节。
And those neurons in the brainstem, control the release of immune cells from tissues like the spleen or organs like the spleen.
脑干中的这些神经元控制着脾脏等组织或脾脏等器官释放免疫细胞。
And those immune cells can then go combat infection.
然后这些免疫细胞就可以对抗感染。
We've heard before that when we're happy, we're better able to combat infection, deal with pain, deal with all sorts of things.
我们以前听说过，当我们快乐时，我们能够更好地对抗感染、应对疼痛、处理各种事情。
It essentially makes us more resilient.
它本质上使我们更有弹性。
And that's not because dopamine is some magic molecule.
这并不是因为多巴胺是某种神奇的分子。
It's because dopamine affects particular circuits and tells, in a very neurobiological way, in a biochemical way, tells those cells and circuits that conditions are good.
这是因为多巴胺影响特定的回路，并以一种非常神经生物学的方式、一种生化的方式告诉那些细胞和回路，条件良好。
Despite the fact that there's pain in the body, conditions are good, you're in love.
尽管身体有疼痛，但条件很好，你们恋爱了。
Or conditions are good, you want to be in this experience.
或者条件好，你想有这样的体验。
Or conditions are good, this is for a greater cause that you're fighting or suffering, for some larger purpose.
或者条件很好，这是为了一个更伟大的事业，你正在奋斗或受苦，为了某个更大的目的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So all of that has existed largely in the realm of psychology and even motivational literature and this kind of thing, but there's a real mechanistic basis for it.
因此，所有这些都主要存在于心理学领域，甚至励志文学和此类事物中，但它有一个真正的机械基础。
Dopamine is a molecule that combine to receptor sites on these brain areas.
多巴胺是一种与这些大脑区域的受体位点结合的分子。
Those brain areas can then modulate the organs and tissues of the body, that can allow us to lean into challenge.
这些大脑区域可以调节身体的器官和组织，使我们能够应对挑战。
And those challenges can be infection, it can be physical pain, it can be long bouts of effort that are required of us.
这些挑战可能是感染，可能是身体疼痛，也可能是我们需要付出的长期努力。
And I think many people have described the feeling of being newly in love as a heightened level of energy, a capacity to do anything.
我想很多人都将初恋的感觉描述为一种能量的提升，一种做任何事的能力。
I mean, the whole concept of a muse is one in which some individual or something, either imagined or real, enters our life and we can use that as fuel.
我的意思是，缪斯的整个概念是一些个人或事物，无论是想象的还是真实的，进入我们的生活，我们可以将其用作燃料。
And that fuel is chemical fuel and that chemical fuel is dopamine.
这种燃料就是化学燃料，而化学燃料就是多巴胺。
And it really does allow for more resilience and can even transform the experience of pain, or what would otherwise be pain, into an experience of pleasure.
它确实可以增强弹性，甚至可以将痛苦的经历或原本痛苦的经历转变为快乐的经历。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So along those lines, let's talk about pleasure.
因此，沿着这些思路，我们来谈谈快乐。
With all the cells and tissues and machinery related to pain, you might think that our entire touch system is designed to allow us to detect pain and to avoid tissue damage.
由于所有细胞、组织和机械都与疼痛相关，您可能会认为我们的整个触摸系统旨在让我们能够检测疼痛并避免组织损伤。
And while a good percentage of it is devoted to that, a good percentage of it is also devoted to this thing that we call pleasure.
虽然其中很大一部分投入于此，但也有很大一部分投入到了我们称之为快乐的事情上。
And that should come as no surprise.
这应该不足为奇。
Pleasure isn't just there for our pleasure, it serves an adaptive role.
快乐不仅仅是为了我们的快乐，它还具有适应性的作用。
And that adaptive role relates to the fact that every species has a primary goal, which is to make more of itself, otherwise it would go extinct.
这种适应作用与每个物种都有一个主要目标这一事实有关，那就是让自己变得更多，否则就会灭绝。
That process of making more of itself, sexual reproduction, is closely associated with the sensation and the perception of pleasure.
有性生殖是自我创造更多的过程，与快乐的感觉和感知密切相关。
And it's no surprise that not only is the highest density of sensory receptors in and on and around the genitalia, but the process of reproduction evokes sensations and molecules and perceptions associated with pleasure.
毫不奇怪，不仅生殖器内部、表面和周围的感觉受体密度最高，而且生殖过程也会唤起与愉悦相关的感觉、分子和感知。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the currency of pleasure exists in multiple chemical systems.
快乐的货币存在于多种化学系统中。
But the primary ones are the dopamine system, which is the anticipation of pleasure and the work required to achieve the ability to experience that pleasure, and the serotonin system, which is more closely related to the immediate experience of that pleasure.
但最主要的是多巴胺系统，它是对快乐的预期以及实现体验这种快乐的能力所需的工作，以及血清素系统，它与那种快乐的直接体验更密切相关。
And from dopamine and serotonin stem out other hormones and molecules, things like oxytocin, which are associated with pair bonding.
多巴胺和血清素会产生其他激素和分子，例如催产素，它们与伴侣关系有关。
Oxytocin is more closely associated with the serotonin system biochemically and at the circuit level.
催产素在生化和回路水平上与血清素系统的关系更为密切。
Meaning the areas of the brain and body that manufacture a lot of serotonin, usually, not always, but usually contain neurons that also manufacture and make use of the molecule oxytocin.
意思是大脑和身体中产生大量血清素的区域，通常（并非总是），但通常包含也产生和利用催产素分子的神经元。
Those chemicals together create sensations of warmth, of wellbeing, of safety.
这些化学物质一起创造温暖、幸福和安全的感觉。
The dopamine molecule is more closely associated with hormones like testosterone and other molecules involved with pursuit and further effort, in order to get more of whatever could potentially cause more release of dopamine.
多巴胺分子与睾酮等激素和其他涉及追求和进一步努力的分子的联系更为密切，以便获得更多可能导致更多多巴胺释放的物质。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So this is a very broad strokes, no pun intended, description of the pleasure system.
所以这是对快乐系统的非常广泛的描述，没有双关语的意思。
There are, of course, other molecules as well.
当然，还有其他分子。
One in particular that's very interesting is something called PEA.
一个特别有趣的东西是 PEA。
PEA stands for phenethylamine, sometimes also referred to as phenylethylamine, depending on who you are and where you live.
PEA 代表苯乙胺，有时也称为苯乙胺，具体取决于您的身份和居住地。
How you pronounce it, doesn't really matter.
你怎么发音并不重要。
PEA is a molecule which is incredibly potent at augmenting or increasing the activity of certain cells and neural circuits that relate to the pleasure system.
PEA 是一种非常有效地增强或增加与愉悦系统相关的某些细胞和神经回路的活性的分子。
PEA has purportedly been thought to be released in response to ingestion of things like certain forms of dark chocolate.
据称，PEA 被认为是因摄入某些形式的黑巧克力等物质而释放的。
Some people take it in supplement form, it's a bit of a stimulant.
有些人以补充剂的形式服用它，它有点兴奋剂的作用。
But it also seems to heighten the perception of pleasure in response to a particular amount of dopamine and/or serotonin.
但它似乎也增强了对特定量的多巴胺和/或血清素的反应的愉悦感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So for instance, in a kind of arbitrary experiment and units type example, if a given experience evokes a particular amount of serotonin and dopamine, and gives rise to a subjective experience of pleasure of, say, level 3 out of 10, the ingestion of PEA prior to that experience can increase the rating of that experience as more pleasureful.
例如，在一种任意实验和单位类型的例子中，如果给定的体验唤起特定量的血清素和多巴胺，并产生主观的愉悦体验，例如，10 级中的 3 级，那么在该体验之前摄入 PEA 可以提高该体验的评级，使其更愉悦。
Maybe a 4 or a 5 or even a 6.
也许是 4 或 5 甚至 6。
And PEA is known to be present in, or I should say its release is stimulated by a number of different compounds such as dark chocolate, certain things like aspartame, and certain people can actually increase the amount of PEA released.
众所周知，PEA 存在于，或者我应该说它的释放是由许多不同的化合物刺激的，例如黑巧克力、阿斯巴甜等某些物质，并且某些人实际上可以增加 PEA 的释放量。
Some of these glutamate related molecules like aspartame or things that are in the glutamate pathway can increase PEA release.
其中一些谷氨酸相关分子，如阿斯巴甜或谷氨酸途径中的物质，可以增加 PEA 的释放。
And then some people will actually take PEA in supplement form for its mild stimulant properties as well as for increasing the perception of or the ability to experience pleasure.
然后，有些人实际上会服用 PEA 补充剂，因为它具有温和的兴奋特性，并且可以增加体验快乐的感觉或能力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's not a sledgehammer, it's not like dopamine itself.
它不是大锤，也不像多巴胺本身。
People that take things like Mucuna pruriens, L-dopa or drugs of abuse, which I certainly don't recommend, things like cocaine or amphetamine, experience tremendous increases in dopamine, not so much increases in serotonin.
服用黧豆粉、左旋多巴或滥用药物（我当然不推荐）的人，例如可卡因或安非他明，会经历多巴胺的巨大增加，而不是血清素的增加。
Some people will take serotonin in precursor form like 5-HTP, or serotonin itself, or they'll take the amino acid precursor like tryptophan.
有些人会服用前体形式的血清素，如 5-HTP，或血清素本身，或者他们会服用氨基酸前体，如色氨酸。
I'm not saying these things as recommendations for increasing one's sense of pleasure, I'm describing them because of what they do.
我说这些并不是为了增加一个人的快乐感的建议，我是因为它们的作用而描述它们。
Generally falls into two categories.
一般分为两类。
The first category is to raise the foundation what we call the tonic level of dopamine and serotonin.
第一类是提高基础，即我们所说的多巴胺和血清素的滋补水平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if levels of serotonin and dopamine are too low, it becomes almost impossible to experience pleasure.
因此，如果血清素和多巴胺水平太低，几乎不可能体验到快乐。
There's a so-called anhedonia.
有一种所谓的快感缺失。
This is also described as depression, although it needn't be long-term depression.
这也被描述为抑郁症，尽管它不一定是长期抑郁症。
So certain drugs like antidepressants, like Wellbutrin, bupropion as it's commonly called, or the so-called SSRIs, the Serotonin Selective Reuptake Inhibitors, excuse me, like Prozac, Zoloft and similar, will increase dopamine and serotonin respectively.
因此，某些药物，如抗抑郁药，如通常所说的维布特林、安非他酮，或者所谓的 SSRIs（血清素选择性再摄取抑制剂），例如百忧解、左洛复等，会分别增加多巴胺和血清素。
They're not increasing the peaks in those molecules, what we call the acute release of those molecules.
他们并没有增加这些分子的峰值，我们称之为这些分子的急性释放。
What they're doing is they're raising the overall levels of those molecules.
他们正在做的是提高这些分子的总体水平。
They're raising the foundation or the tide, if you will.
如果你愿意的话，他们正在奠定基础或推动潮流。
Think about it.
想一想。
As your mood, or your pleasure rather, is like a boat, and if it's on the shore and it can't get out to sea unless that tide is high enough.
因为你的心情，或者说你的快乐，就像一艘船，如果它在岸上，除非潮水足够高，否则它无法出海。
That's kind of the way to think about these tonic levels of dopamine and serotonin.
这就是思考多巴胺和血清素的补品水平的方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now most of us, fortunately, do not have problems with our baseline or our tonic levels of dopamine and serotonin release.
幸运的是，现在我们大多数人的多巴胺和血清素释放的基线或补品水平都没有问题。
Things like PEA, in that case, will cause a slight increase in that tide and make the ability of certain experiences to increase dopamine further more available.
在这种情况下，像 PEA 这样的东西会导致这种趋势略有增加，并使某些体验进一步增加多巴胺的能力。
What we call this in neuroscience is so-called gain control.
我们在神经科学中称之为所谓的增益控制。
It can turn up the volume, bring us closer to the threshold, to activate certain circuits.
它可以调高音量，让我们更接近阈值，从而激活某些电路。
And this is really what we mean when we say a neuromodulator.
这就是我们所说的神经调节剂的真正含义。
This is why when you are very happy about something ...
这就是为什么当你对某件事感到非常高兴时......
Let's say, you're out with your friends, you're really excited, maybe depending on where you live and what's going on in your area, the world right now like ...
比方说，你和你的朋友出去，你真的很兴奋，也许取决于你住在哪里以及你所在地区正在发生的事情，现在的世界就像......
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have a niece and she's been locked up in quarantine for a long time.
我有一个侄女，她已经被隔离很长时间了。
Recently, because it was deemed safe, she got to go to summer camp.
最近，因为认为安全，她就去参加了夏令营。
I have never seen that kid so happy to spend time with her friends.
我从未见过那个孩子如此高兴地与她的朋友们共度时光。
She was so excited and it was really amazing to see how excited she was.
她非常兴奋，看到她如此兴奋真是令人惊讶。
Her baseline levels of dopamine were clearly up.
她的多巴胺基线水平明显上升。
So much so, that when she saw her friends, she literally started squealing.
以至于当她看到她的朋友时，她真的开始尖叫。
They were squealing, she was squealing, everyone was squealing.
他们在尖叫，她在尖叫，每个人都在尖叫。
I wasn't squealing.
我没有尖叫。
I would admit it if I was squealing.
如果我尖叫的话我会承认。
I wasn't squealing, but it was such a delight to see, and I'm sure that made my dopamine levels go up.
我没有尖叫，但看到这一幕真是太高兴了，我确信这让我的多巴胺水平上升了。
She was just so excited, such that anything and everything felt like an exciting stimulus.
她太兴奋了，任何事情都像是一种令人兴奋的刺激。
This is pleasure, right?
这就是快乐吧？
And I don't want to write off the experience from a neurobiological reductionist standpoint.
我不想从神经生物学还原论的角度抹去这段经历。
Quite the opposite.
恰恰相反。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's really beautiful to see, again, this principle that different experiences and the experience of pleasure from different things, seeing your friends for the first time, summer camp for a kid, whatever it might happen to be, use the same currency, dopamine, use the same currency, serotonin.
再次看到这个原则真的很美，不同的经历和从不同事物中获得快乐的经历，第一次见到你的朋友，孩子的夏令营，无论发生什么，使用相同的货币，多巴胺，使用相同的货币，血清素。
And this is a principle that I hope, in listening to this podcast and even some of its repetitive features from one episode to the next, I'm hoping that those will start to embed in your mind that the brain and body use these common currencies for different experiences.
这是我希望的一个原则，在收听这个播客，甚至是从一集到下一集的一些重复功能时，我希望这些将开始嵌入你的脑海中，即大脑和身体使用这些共同的货币来获得不同的体验。
So yes, if your dopamine and serotonin ...
所以是的，如果你的多巴胺和血清素......
Or I should say if your dopamine and/or serotonin levels are too low, it will be very hard to achieve pleasure, to experience physical pleasure or emotional pleasure of any kind.
或者我应该说，如果你的多巴胺和/或血清素水平太低，就很难获得快乐，体验任何形式的身体快乐或情感快乐。
That's why treatments of the sort that I described a minute ago might be right for you.
这就是为什么我刚才描述的那种治疗方法可能适合您。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Obviously, we can't determine if they're right for you.
显然，我们无法确定它们是否适合您。
It's also why they have side effects.
这也是它们有副作用的原因。
If you artificially increase these molecules that are associated with pleasure, oftentimes you get a lack of motivation to go seek things like food.
如果你人为地增加这些与快乐相关的分子，你通常会缺乏动力去寻找食物等东西。
People don't get much interest in food because why should they if their serotonin levels are already up?
人们对食物不太感兴趣，因为如果他们的血清素水平已经升高了，为什么还要对食物感兴趣呢？
Again, there's a ton of individual variation.
同样，个体差异很大。
I don't want to say that these antidepressants are always bad.
我不想说这些抗抑郁药总是不好的。
Sometimes they've saved lives, they've saved millions of lives.
有时他们拯救了生命，他们拯救了数百万人的生命。
Sometimes people have side effects that make them not the right choice.
有时人们会产生副作用，这使得他们不是正确的选择。
So it has to be determined for the individual.
所以必须根据个人情况来确定。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Things like PEA are of more subtle effect.
像PEA这样的东西有更微妙的效果。
I should mention PEA supplementation is something that a number of people use, but it's very short lived.
我应该提一下，很多人都使用 PEA 补充剂，但它的寿命很短。
Because of the half-life of this molecule is very brief, the effect only lasts about 20 minutes or so.
由于这种分子的半衰期很短，作用只能持续大约20分钟左右。
Things like L-dopa, Mucuna pruriens lead to longer baseline increases in dopamine.
左旋多巴、刺黧豆等物质会导致多巴胺的基线增加更长。
But remember, anytime you raise a baseline, you reduce the so-called signal to noise.
但请记住，任何时候提高基线，都会降低所谓的信噪比。
What it means is if you're riding around at really high dopamine, at first, everything will start to seem exciting.
这意味着，如果你的多巴胺水平非常高，一开始，一切都会开始显得令人兴奋。
Like my niece and seeing her friends for the first time, everything's exciting.
就像我的侄女第一次见到她的朋友一样，一切都很令人兴奋。
But then what will happen is, when your dopamine levels return to more normal levels, it will take a much greater dopamine increase of much bigger event, more novel, more exciting, in order to achieve the sense that what you're experiencing is pleasureful.
但随后会发生的事情是，当你的多巴胺水平恢复到更正常的水平时，需要更大的事件、更新颖、更令人兴奋的多巴胺增加，才能获得你正在经历的快乐的感觉。
And this is because of the relationship between pleasure and pain.
这是因为快乐与痛苦之间的关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now in our future episode, we are going to go deep into this relationship between pleasure and pain.
在接下来的节目中，我们将深入探讨快乐与痛苦之间的关系。
But just briefly as a precursor to that and because it's relevant to the conversation that we've been having, you might want to be wary of any experience, no matter how it arrives, chemical, physical, emotional, or some combination, you might want to be wary of letting your dopamine go too high and certainly you want to be wary of it going too low, because of the way that these circuits adjust.
但简单来说，作为一个先兆，因为它与我们一直在进行的对话相关，你可能想要对任何体验保持警惕，无论它是如何到来的，化学的、物理的、情感的或某种组合，你可能想要警惕让你的多巴胺过高，当然你也希望警惕它过低，因为这些电路的调整方式。
Basically, every time that the pleasure system is kicked in high gear, an absolutely spectacular event, you cannot be more ecstatic.
基本上，每次当快乐系统全速运转时，这绝对是一场壮观的事件，你会感到无比欣喜若狂。
There is a mirror symmetric activation of the pain system.
疼痛系统存在镜像对称激活。
And this might seem like an evil curse of biology, but it's not.
这看起来像是生物学的邪恶诅咒，但事实并非如此。
This is actually a way to protect this whole system of reward and motivation that I talked about at the beginning of the episode.
这实际上是保护我在本集开头谈到的整个奖励和动机系统的一种方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It might sound great to just ingest substances or engage in behaviors where it's just dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, and just constantly be motivated, but the system will eventually crash.
仅仅摄入物质或从事只有多巴胺、多巴胺、多巴胺的行为，并且不断地受到激励，这听起来不错，但系统最终会崩溃。
And so, what happens is when you have a big increase in dopamine, you also will get a big increase in the circuits that underlie our sense of disappointment and readjusting the balance.
因此，当你的多巴胺大量增加时，你的失望感和重新调整平衡的回路也会大幅增加。
And with repeated exposure to high levels of dopamine, not naturally occurring wonderful events but really high chemically induced peaks in dopamine, high magnitude, chemically induced peaks in dopamine, what happens is those peaks in dopamine start to go down and down and down, in response to the same what ought to be incredible experience.
随着反复暴露于高水平的多巴胺，不是自然发生的奇妙事件，而是真正高的化学诱导的多巴胺峰值，高强度的化学诱导的多巴胺峰值，发生的情况是这些多巴胺的峰值开始下降，下降，下降，以响应相同的令人难以置信的经历。
We start to what's called habituate or attenuate, and yet the pain increases in size.
我们开始所谓的习惯或减弱，但疼痛却越来越严重。
And this has a preservative function in keeping us safe, believe it or not.
不管你信不信，它具有保护我们安全的防腐功能。
But what I just described is actually the basis of most, if not all, forms of addiction, something that we will deal with in a future episode in depth.
但我刚才描述的实际上是大多数（如果不是全部）成瘾形式的基础，我们将在未来的剧集中深入讨论这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, what should you think about all this?
那么，您应该如何看待这一切呢？
How should you think about pleasure and how should you think about pain?
你应该如何看待快乐，又应该如何看待痛苦？
What is too much pleasure?
什么是太多的快乐？
Well, that's going to differ from person to person.
嗯，这因人而异。
But, to the extent that one can access pleasure repeatedly overtime, ideally without chemical augmentation, certainly not excessive chemical augmentation, that means that this pleasure system is tuned up well and can continue to experience pleasure.
但是，如果一个人能够随着时间的推移反复获得快乐，理想情况下不需要化学增强，当然也不会过度化学增强，这意味着这个快乐系统得到了很好的调整，并且可以继续体验快乐。
However, if you find yourself engaging in the same behavior over and over again but achieving less and less pleasure from it, chances are you want to adjust down how often you engage in that behavior and/or adjust down your expectation of reward every time you engage in that behavior.
然而，如果你发现自己一遍又一遍地从事相同的行为，但从中获得的乐趣却越来越少，那么你很可能想降低从事该行为的频率和/或降低每次从事该行为时对奖励的期望。
What do I mean by that?
我这么说是什么意思？
Well, at the beginning of the episode, I talked about how dopamine will allow us to get into bouts of hard work.
嗯，在本集的开头，我谈到了多巴胺如何让我们进入艰苦的工作状态。
We will work very hard to pursue a reward.
我们会非常努力地去追求回报。
And that's really what dopamine does.
这确实是多巴胺的作用。
And then when the reward comes, that doesn't increase our dopamine.
当奖励到来时，我们的多巴胺并不会增加。
In fact, our dopamine levels go down.
事实上，我们的多巴胺水平下降了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of the key things that we can all do to adjust our ability to experience pleasure is to engage in that intermittent reward schedule.
为了调整我们体验快乐的能力，我们都可以做的关键事情之一就是参与间歇性奖励计划。
You can either adjust down the peak in dopamine, meaning not let yourself ever get too happy.
您可以降低多巴胺的峰值，这意味着不要让自己太高兴。
But that's no fun, right?
但这并不好玩，对吧？
Life is about occasionally achieving or experiencing ecstasy.
生活就是偶尔获得或体验狂喜。
But every once in a while, remove the reward.
但每隔一段时间，就取消奖励。
And of course, I don't mean ecstasy, the drug.
当然，我指的不是摇头丸这种药物。
That's a separate matter.
那是另一回事了。
The MDMA trials are a separate matter, very interesting.
MDMA 试验是另一件事，非常有趣。
I want to be clear.
我想澄清一下。
I meant psychological and physical ecstasy of the natural sort.
我指的是自然的心理和身体的狂喜。
I've immense interest in what's going on in the MDMA trials, but just for clarity purposes, that's a separate topic that we will cover in an episode, excuse me, very soon.
我对 MDMA 试验中发生的事情非常感兴趣，但为了清楚起见，这是一个单独的主题，我们将在很快的一集中讨论。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So how do you adjust this dopamine system?
那么如何调节这个多巴胺系统呢？
Well, every once in a while, at random, not in a predictable way, you remove the reward.
好吧，每隔一段时间，你就会随机地、不以可预测的方式取消奖励。
And that will keep you and your dopamine system tuned up in the proper ways.
这将使您和您的多巴胺系统以正确的方式进行调整。
The gain of the dopamine system, as we say, will be adjusted so that you can continue to experience dopamine and serotonin when you actually get the reward.
多巴胺系统的增益，正如我们所说，会被调整，以便当你真正获得奖励时，你可以继续体验多巴胺和血清素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This can be translated into a huge number of different domains.
这可以转化为大量不同的领域。
But I want to give some examples because I'm sure that many of you are asking, "Wait, what does this actually mean?" Okay.
但我想举一些例子，因为我确信你们很多人都会问：“等等，这实际上意味着什么？”好的。
Let's say you're a student, or this could be a student in academia or this could be a student of a physical practice.
假设您是一名学生，或者这可能是学术界的学生，也可能是体育练习的学生。
Every once in a while when you do something really well, maybe that's even just showing up to the practice, rather than pat yourself on the back, just tell yourself, "Yeah, that's the minimum that's expected of me." When everyone's excited about something that you're doing, maybe you're excited about it, try and adjust down your excitement a little bit.
每隔一段时间，当你把某件事做得非常好的时候，也许这甚至只是参加练习，而不是拍拍自己的背，只是告诉自己，“是的，这是对我的最低期望。”当每个人都对你正在做的事情感到兴奋时，也许你也对此感到兴奋，尝试稍微降低你的兴奋程度。
I know this might seem counterintuitive, but you're preserving the ability to experience excitement in a variety of contexts.
我知道这可能看起来违反直觉，但你保留了在各种情况下体验兴奋的能力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's say you get a big monetary award.
假设您获得了巨额奖金。
Well, that's great.
嗯，那太好了。
I'm happy for you and that's wonderful.
我为你感到高兴，这太棒了。
However, you should be a little bit wary if you care about your dopamine system and you care about your ability to get subsequent monetary rewards, excuse me, awards, rewards, doesn't matter which, through efforts.
然而，如果你关心你的多巴胺系统，并且你关心你通过努力获得后续金钱奖励的能力，对不起，奖励，奖励，无论哪种，你应该有点警惕。
If you want to be able to maintain the ability to exert effort, well, then you probably wouldn't want to run out and immediately buy something with that monetary reward.
如果你希望能够保持努力的能力，那么你可能不想立即用金钱奖励去购买东西。
In other words, you wouldn't want to layer on more dopamine release.
换句话说，你不想释放更多的多巴胺。
You might, but you might not.
你可能会，但也可能不会。
You might skip it.
你可能会跳过它。
What you'll find then is that your motivation is essentially infinite.
然后你会发现你的动力本质上是无限的。
This is what I described at the beginning of the episode.
这就是我在本集开头所描述的内容。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And again, it's because dopamine is this currency.
再说一遍，这是因为多巴胺是这种货币。
These days you hear a lot about Bitcoin and Ethereum and Dogecoin and U.S. dollars and Euros and all this other stuff, but the currency that you use in your body doesn't matter what external currency those are.
这些天你听到很多关于比特币、以太坊、狗狗币、美元、欧元以及所有其他东西的信息，但你体内使用的货币是什么并不重要。
In fact, as you watch the value of different currencies go up, whether or not it's cryptocurrency or standard currency, the value is actually reflective of the dopamine that exists inside of people.
事实上，当你看到不同货币的价值上涨时，无论是加密货币还是标准货币，其价值实际上反映了人体内存在的多巴胺。
So all the excitement about a particular currency, crypto or otherwise, is really just dopamine.
因此，对某种特定货币（无论是加密货币还是其他货币）的所有兴奋实际上只是多巴胺。
That's the currency that we all use.
这是我们大家都使用的货币。
And there's no negotiating that.
这没有任何谈判的余地。
That's just the way that we're built.
这就是我们的构建方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, to give yet other examples, let's say you're teaching other people how to do something and they do something exceptionally well.
现在，再举其他例子，假设您正在教其他人如何做某事，而他们却做得非常好。
If you reward them every single time, and in particular if you reward them with something that's even greater than the experience of what they did, so let's say kids win a soccer game and they're ecstatic, they're jumping all over the place, they're super excited, and you reward them with an even bigger experience, a celebration, you are actually inhibiting their ability to perform the same set of activities that led them to the win, if, and I really want to underscore, if you reward them every time.
如果你每次都奖励他们，特别是如果你用比他们所做的经历更伟大的东西来奖励他们，那么假设孩子们赢得了一场足球比赛，他们欣喜若狂，他们跳来跳去，他们非常兴奋，而你奖励他们更大的经历，一场庆祝，你实际上抑制了他们执行导致他们获胜的同一组活动的能力，如果，我真的想强调，如果你每次都奖励他们。
Of course, we should reward kids and each other and ourselves for our accomplishments, but you don't want to do it every time.
当然，我们应该奖励孩子、彼此和我们自己的成就，但你不想每次都这样做。
And sure, there will be some disappointment from suddenly removing the reward that you expected.
当然，突然取消你期望的奖励会让你感到有些失望。
But that's exactly the point.
但这正是重点。
That's what keeps these circuits tuned up properly.
这就是保持这些电路正常调整的原因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now there's the other form of pleasure, which is the more immediate, visceral or sensory experience of pleasure.
现在还有另一种形式的快乐，这是更直接的、本能的或感官的快乐体验。
This is distinct from goals and goal directed behavior.
这与目标和目标导向的行为不同。
I'm talking about the immediate experience.
我说的是直接的经历。
This is more of the serotonergic system.
这更多的是血清素能系统。
There are other systems involved too, but this is also the system that draws out those endogenous opioids from a particular structure.
还涉及其他系统，但这也是从特定结构中提取内源性阿片类药物的系统。
We have a structure in the back of our brain called PAG.
我们的大脑后部有一个叫做 PAG 的结构。
P-A-G.
P-A-G。
It's the periaqueductal gray area.
这是导水管周围的灰色区域。
Very interesting brain area that is associated with pain but also with pleasure because under certain conditions it deploys endogenous opioids and gives us a kind of blissed-out feeling.
非常有趣的大脑区域，与疼痛相关，但也与快乐相关，因为在某些条件下，它会释放内源性阿片类药物，给我们一种幸福的感觉。
This is not like the opioids of the opioid epidemic sort that people take and unfortunately have led to tremendous amounts of suffering and abuse.
这与人们服用的阿片类药物不同，不幸的是，它导致了巨大的痛苦和滥用。
These are endogenously released opioids.
这些是内源性释放的阿片类药物。
These are the kind of opioids that come out from long distance bouts of physical exercise, in running.
这些阿片类药物是通过长距离体育锻炼（跑步）产生的。
These are the opioids that are deployed in response to giving birth and overcoming the tremendous pain of childbirth.
这些阿片类药物是为了应对分娩和克服分娩时的巨大疼痛而使用的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So PAG is very contextual, and there are few types of stimuli, or I should say events in life ...
所以PAG是非常有情境的，刺激的种类很少，或者应该说是生活中的事件……
I'm really showing my nerdy side.
我真的展现出了我书呆子的一面。
There are a few types of stimuli where I'm talking about experiences that evoke endogenous opioid release from PAG.
我所说的刺激有几种类型，可以引起 PAG 释放内源性阿片类药物。
One is sexual activity.
一是性活动。
Sexual activity can increase pain threshold.
性活动会增加痛阈。
And here, I am not suggesting or getting involved in anyone's particular proclivities or personal experiences.
在这里，我并不是建议或参与任何人的特定倾向或个人经历。
You're welcome to editorialize this however you like.
欢迎您按照自己的喜好进行编辑。
However, what I'm talking about are animal data, and yes, human data as well, that show that pain thresholds are increased anytime PAG is activated because of the release of these endogenous opioids.
然而，我所说的是动物数据，是的，还有人类数据，这些数据表明，由于这些内源性阿片类药物的释放，只要 PAG 被激活，疼痛阈值就会增加。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's also the immediate experience of whether or not a particular form of touch is pleasurable or not.
还有一种特定形式的触摸是否令人愉悦的直接体验。
And there, there's some very interesting biology that relates to really how those little wires from those DRGs innervate our skin.
在那里，有一些非常有趣的生物学，与那些来自 DRG 的小电线如何支配我们的皮肤有关。
Work ...
工作...
studies, I should say, done by David Ginty's lab at Harvard Medical School; the Ginty lab has spent years working on the somatic sensory system.
我应该说，这项研究是由哈佛医学院 David Ginty 实验室完成的； Ginty 实验室花了数年时间研究体感系统。
The touch system has identified a particular category of neurons that innervate the skin, and then those neurons, of course, send that information up to the brain too, and they actually respond to direction of touch.
触摸系统已经识别出支配皮肤的特定类别的神经元，然后这些神经元当然也会将该信息发送到大脑，并且它们实际上对触摸的方向做出反应。
Now, some of you might be more sensitive to this than others, but it turns out that certain hairs like to be deflected one way versus another.
现在，你们中的一些人可能比其他人对此更敏感，但事实证明，某些毛发喜欢以一种方式偏向而不是另一种方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whether or not you like cats or not, you can do this experiment.
不管你喜不喜欢猫，你都可以做这个实验。
You can pet a cat in the direction that their fur lies.
你可以顺着猫皮毛所在的方向抚摸它。
So it lies down in a particular direction.
所以它位于一个特定的方向。
You'll notice that there's actually a gene that dictates that the hairs lie down in a particular direction.
你会注意到，实际上有一个基因决定毛发朝特定方向躺下。
And if you pet them in a way that's cooperating with that direction, so not pushing the hairs up but rather stroking the hairs on the back of the cat, what you'll notice is they often like that.
如果你以与那个方向配合的方式抚摸它们，所以不要把毛发推起来，而是抚摸猫背上的毛发，你会注意到它们经常这样做。
Not all cats, some cats are pretty grouchy.
不是所有的猫，有些猫很脾气暴躁。
But if you stroke their hair, they will often purr, they'll often push into you.
但如果你抚摸它们的头发，它们常常会发出咕噜声，它们常常会推向你。
If you were to stroke their hair in the opposite direction, pushing the hairs up against the direction that they want to lie down, cats do not like that.
如果你以相反的方向抚摸它们的毛发，将毛发推向它们想要躺下的方向，猫不喜欢这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It turns out people don't like that either.
事实证明人们也不喜欢这样。
Some people do like to have their hair pushed in a direction against the direction in which it wants to lay down, but there is more typically a response of feeling like it's pleasureful, for instance, when someone brushes or combs their hair in the direction that it wants to lay down.
有些人确实喜欢将头发推向与头发想要放下的方向相反的方向，但更典型的反应是感觉很愉快，例如，当有人沿着头发想要放下的方向梳理或梳理头发时。
And that's because the way in which these neurons that innervate these hairs sends information up to the brain, bifurcates actually, it splits into brain centers that evoke a sense of pleasure or a sense of not pleasure.
这是因为支配这些毛发的神经元向大脑发送信息的方式实际上是分叉的，它分裂成引起愉悦感或不愉悦感的大脑中心。
It's not necessarily pain.
这不一定是痛苦。
So you might find that certain people are very particular.
所以你可能会发现某些人非常特别。
They like to be touched in a certain way, but not others.
他们喜欢以某种方式被触摸，但不喜欢其他方式。
You might be one of those people.
你可能就是这些人中的一员。
And areas of our skin that have high density of receptors are very, very sensitive.
我们皮肤上受体密度高的区域非常非常敏感。
In a real way, in a real sense of the word, two patterns of touch, and whether or not a touch is too firm or too light.
以真正的方式，从真正的意义上来说，有两种触摸模式，以及触摸是否太重或太轻。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that will be modulated by overall levels of arousal.
这将受到总体唤醒水平的调节。
And when I talk about arousal, what I'm talking about is how alert or how sleepy we are.
当我谈论觉醒时，我所说的是我们的警觉程度或困倦程度。
It is impossible to experience pain when we are deep in sleep.
当我们处于深度睡眠状态时，不可能体验到疼痛。
I don't mean sleeping like of the typical night sort, I mean of the anesthesia sort.
我的意思不是像典型的夜间睡眠那样，我的意思是麻醉睡眠。
That's the purpose of anesthesia, to bring the brain and body into a deep plane of rest.
这就是麻醉的目的，让大脑和身体进入深度休息状态。
Very deep, in fact.
事实上，非常深。
And it's very hard, if not impossible, to achieve or experience pleasure when we are in a very low state of arousal as well.
当我们处于非常低的唤醒状态时，即使不是不可能，也很难获得或体验快乐。
When we are in heightened states of arousal, we can achieve pain, we can experience pain and we can experience pleasure.
当我们处于高度兴奋的状态时，我们可以实现痛苦，我们可以体验痛苦，我们可以体验快乐。
And under those heightened states of arousal, we are more sensitive, literally.
在这些高度兴奋的状态下，我们确实更加敏感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The passage of electrical signals from those locations on the body that have heightened degrees or higher degrees, I should say, of receptors, use your imagination, they include the lips, the face, the feet, and the genitals and nearby areas, literally nearby areas, under conditions of high arousal, two things happen.
我应该说，从身体上那些具有高度或更高程度的受体的位置传递电信号，发挥你的想象力，它们包括嘴唇、脸部、脚、生殖器和附近区域，实际上是附近区域，在高唤醒条件下，会发生两件事。
The ability to achieve or experience pleasure at those locations goes up and our tolerance in our threshold for pain also goes up.
在这些地方获得或体验快乐的能力提高了，我们对疼痛阈值的容忍度也提高了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the principle here is that as our levels of arousal, that foundation of arousal goes up or down, so too goes up and down our ability to achieve pleasure and pain.
所以这里的原则是，随着我们的唤醒水平，唤醒基础的上升或下降，我们获得快乐和痛苦的能力也会上升或下降。
And so these two extremes of being deep within anesthesia, or another extreme is asleep or in heightened levels of arousal, our ability to achieve pleasure and pain are going to scale according to those.
因此，处于深度麻醉状态、另一个极端是睡眠状态或处于高度兴奋状态这两个极端，我们获得快乐和痛苦的能力将根据这些情况而变化。
And this is why, and I'm certainly not suggesting this, but this is why some people will take stimulants or drugs of abuse that increase arousal in order to achieve pleasure of other kinds.
这就是为什么，我当然不是建议这样做，但这就是为什么有些人会服用兴奋剂或滥用药物来增加性兴奋，以获得其他类型的快乐。
The problem is that those drugs, in particular, things like cocaine and methamphetamine and amphetamine, become their own form of reinforcement, so much so, that the person doesn't seek out any other form of excitement or arousal.
问题在于，这些药物，特别是可卡因、甲基苯丙胺和安非他明等药物，成为它们自己的强化形式，以至于人们不会寻求任何其他形式的兴奋或唤醒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, today we weren't talking about addiction.
所以，今天我们不是在谈论成瘾。
We weren't necessarily talking about motivation.
我们不一定在谈论动机。
But we touched on those topics as sort of a precursor of what's to come.
但我们将这些主题视为即将发生的事情的前兆。
We talked about the pathways in the skin and in the brain and elsewhere in the body that control our sense of pleasure and pain.
我们讨论了皮肤、大脑和身体其他部位控制我们的愉悦感和疼痛感的通路。
We described a number of different tools ranging from hypnosis to different supplements to electroacupuncture and various other tools that one could use to modulate your sense of pleasure or pain.
我们描述了许多不同的工具，从催眠到不同的补充剂，再到电针疗法以及可用来调节愉悦感或疼痛感的各种其他工具。
And of course, in thinking about pleasure, we have to think about the dopamine system and the serotonin system and some of the related chemical systems.
当然，在考虑快乐时，我们必须考虑多巴胺系统和血清素系统以及一些相关的化学系统。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I realized that today's podcast had a lot of scientific details.
我意识到今天的播客有很多科学细节。
We've time stamped everything for you so that you don't have to digest it all at once, of course.
当然，我们已经为您标记了所有内容，这样您就不必一次性消化所有内容。
I don't expect that everyone would be able to understand all these details all at once.
我不指望每个人都能一下子理解所有这些细节。
What's more important really is to understand the general principles of how something like pleasure and pain work, how they interact, and the various cells and systems within the brain and body that allow them to occur and that modulate or change their ability to occur.
更重要的是要了解诸如快乐和痛苦之类的东西如何运作、它们如何相互作用以及大脑和身体内允许它们发生以及调节或改变它们发生的能力的各种细胞和系统的一般原理。
And of course, your subjective experience of pleasure or pain.
当然，还有你对快乐或痛苦的主观体验。
So I do hope that this was, on whole, more pleasureful than painful for you.
所以我确实希望这对你来说总体来说是快乐多于痛苦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're enjoying this podcast, and you're learning from it, and you'd like to support us, you can do that in a number of different ways, some of which are totally cost free.
如果您喜欢这个播客，并且正在从中学习，并且您想支持我们，您可以通过多种不同的方式来实现，其中一些方式是完全免费的。
The first one is please subscribe to the YouTube channel.
第一个是请订阅YouTube频道。
That really helps us.
这确实对我们有帮助。
In addition, you can leave us comments and suggestions for future podcast episodes on the YouTube channel.
此外，您还可以在 YouTube 频道上给我们留下对未来播客剧集的意见和建议。
You can also subscribe on Apple and/or Spotify or all three, that would really help us.
您还可以在 Apple 和/或 Spotify 或全部三个上订阅，这对我们确实有帮助。
And on Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review and leave us feedback.
在 Apple 上，您可以给我们留下五星级的评价并给我们留下反馈。
In addition, please check out our sponsors that we mentioned at the beginning of the podcast.
此外，请查看我们在播客开头提到的赞助商。
We only work with sponsors and brands that we absolutely love their products, and that we wholeheartedly endorse and that we use ourselves.
我们只与我们绝对喜爱他们的产品、我们全心全意认可并且我们自己使用的赞助商和品牌合作。
If you're not already following us on Instagram, it's Huberman Lab at Instagram, and there I do various tutorials about neuroscience, offer neuroscience-related tools, all backed by science.
如果您还没有在 Instagram 上关注我们，请关注 Instagram 上的 Huberman Lab，我在那里制作各种有关神经科学的教程，提供与神经科学相关的工具，所有这些都有科学支持。
And last but not least, I thank you for your time and attention, and thank you for interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，我感谢您的时间和关注，并感谢您对科学的兴趣。
PART 3 OF 3 ENDS
第 3 部分（共 3 部分）结束