How to Better Regulate Your Emotions | Dr. Marc Brackett
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
A lot of people think emotion regulation is getting rid of a feeling.
很多人认为情绪调节就是摆脱一种感觉。
It's not what it is.
事实并非如此。
It's just having another relationship to it.
只是与之有另一种关系。
I've had anxiety or lived with it for a lot of my life, but sometimes I just say hello to it.
我一生中很长一段时间都患有焦虑症，或者与之共存，但有时我只是向它打个招呼。
It's like, "Hey, how you doing today?" And it goes away pretty quickly, or it just sits there.
就像，“嘿，你今天过得怎么样？”它很快就会消失，或者只是坐在那里。
I think that's the other thing about emotion regulation that people kind of misunderstand.
我认为这是人们对情绪调节的另一点误解。
They think it's like, I've got to check in with how I'm feeling all day long and then regulate.
他们认为这就像，我必须检查我一整天的感受，然后进行调节。
Check in, regulate.
检查、调节。
You'd become psychotic if you did that all day long.
如果你整天这样做，你就会变得精神病。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Most of the time, our emotions are in the background.
大多数时候，我们的情绪都处于幕后。
If you thought about your feelings all day long, you wouldn't be able to do this podcast.
如果你整天想着自己的感受，你就做不了这个播客。
That's unproductive.
那是没有生产力的。
Emotions matter when there's a shift in our environment or the relationships.
当我们的环境或人际关系发生变化时，情绪就会变得很重要。
If you said something that offended me, boom, I'm activated.
如果你说了一些冒犯我的话，那么我就会被激活。
I'm feeling angry or kind of shocked.
我感到愤怒或者有点震惊。
Then I have to make a choice in that moment, like how do I manage it?
然后我必须在那一刻做出选择，比如我该如何应对？
That's where the magic happens.
这就是奇迹发生的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Dr. Marc Brackett.
今天我的客人是马克·布拉克特博士。
Dr. Marc Brackett is a professor of psychology at Yale University, where he is also the director of Yale's Center for Emotional Intelligence.
马克·布拉克特博士是耶鲁大学心理学教授，也是耶鲁大学情商中心主任。
He's an expert in the science of emotions and how to apply that to improve communication and relationships and performance in school and work.
他是情感科学以及如何应用情感科学来改善沟通、人际关系以及在学校和工作中的表现方面的专家。
One common problem around discussions of emotions and emotional intelligence is that they are often vague and, frankly, somewhat soft and cliché.
关于情绪和情商的讨论的一个常见问题是，它们往往含糊不清，坦率地说，有些软弱和陈词滥调。
But not when Marc Brackett explains emotional intelligence as he does today, because he talks about the practical tools that emerge from the science of emotional intelligence that you can use to improve your emotional life, both with yourself and with others.
但当马克·布拉克特（Marc Brackett）像今天这样解释情商时，情况就不同了，因为他谈论的是情商科学中出现的实用工具，你可以用它们来改善你与自己和他人的情感生活。
And he's not just going to tell us to feel our emotions more deeply.
他不仅会告诉我们要更深入地感受我们的情绪。
While that could be important in certain settings, his research in and out of the laboratory is really focused on the small things that we can all do, both in moments of emotion, but also on our own, that can greatly increase our ability to understand what we're feeling, communicate it effectively, and to be better listeners, especially in moments that would otherwise create tension or confusion.
虽然这在某些情况下可能很重要，但他在实验室内外的研究实际上集中在我们所有人都可以做的小事上，无论是在情绪激动的时刻，还是我们自己，这些小事可以极大地提高我们理解我们的感受、有效沟通的能力，并成为更好的倾听者，特别是在否则会造成紧张或困惑的时刻。
In fact, what he shares today are life skills, the sort of life skills that make everything, school, friendships, romantic relationships, professional life, and family life, far more effective and enriching.
事实上，他今天分享的是生活技能，这种生活技能可以让一切——学校、友谊、恋爱关系、职业生活和家庭生活——变得更加有效和丰富。
So I'm confident that you'll come away from today's episode with Marc Brackett knowing what to do and when to use the tools that you'll learn, and they are indeed very powerful to improve your life.
因此，我相信您在看完今天的 Marc Brackett 节目后，会知道该做什么以及何时使用您将学到的工具，而且它们确实对于改善您的生活非常强大。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors.
为了与这个主题保持一致，今天的节目确实有赞助商。
And now for my discussion with Dr. Marc Brackett.
现在我与马克·布拉克特博士进行讨论。
Dr. Marc Brackett, welcome.
马克·布拉克特博士，欢迎。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Glad to be back.
很高兴回来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So much to discuss today about emotion regulation, about the kids, the future.
今天要讨论的内容就这么多，关于情绪调节、关于孩子、关于未来。
Are the kids all right?
孩子们还好吗？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
They could be better.
他们可以做得更好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
And our obligation, our generation, other generations, in providing a world where kids can thrive and where everyone can thrive.
我们、我们这一代人和其他几代人有义务提供一个让孩子们能够茁壮成长、每个人都能茁壮成长的世界。
It's a bit of a mess out there, but you're going to put some clarification on things for people.
那里有点乱，但你会为人们澄清一些事情。
You're doing amazing work to give people tools for emotion regulation and more.
你们所做的工作非常出色，为人们提供了情绪调节等工具。
So let's start off and define emotion regulation.
因此，让我们开始定义情绪调节。
What is that?
那是什么？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I think the simplest way to define it is using your emotions wisely to achieve your goals in life.
嗯，我认为最简单的定义方法是明智地利用你的情绪来实现你的人生目标。
It's a little bit too broad.
它有点太宽泛了。
And so it's funny, as I was writing my book, I decided, I need a formula.
很有趣的是，当我写书时，我决定，我需要一个公式。
And so my formula is ER, which is emotion regulation, is a set of goals and strategies.
所以我的公式是ER，即情绪调节，是一套目标和策略。
So it's ER, parentheses, G plus S.
所以它是 ER、括号、G 加 S。
And that equals a function of E plus P plus C.
这等于 E 加 P 加 C 的函数。
It made me feel smart.
这让我感觉自己很聪明。
Emotion, person, context.
情感、人物、背景。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
So what I mean by that specifically is that it's a goal-oriented process.
所以我的具体意思是，这是一个以目标为导向的过程。
You have to want to regulate.
你必须想要监管。
You can prevent unwanted emotions.
您可以防止不必要的情绪。
I have an acronym for that, too.
我也有一个缩写。
It's PRIME.
这是 PRIME。
You can prevent unwanted emotions.
您可以防止不必要的情绪。
You can reduce the difficult ones.
你可以减少困难的事情。
I think people forget the I, initiate emotions, like when you're teaching or leading or presenting.
我认为人们会忘记“我”，引发情绪，就像当你在教学、领导或演讲时一样。
You want to create an emotion in the room that's upregulating.
你想在房间里创造一种向上调节的情绪。
You can maintain an emotion.
你可以保持一种情绪。
Like, "You know what?
就像，“你知道吗？
I'm having a good day.
我今天过得很愉快。
I'm going to avoid these things, so just keep it going, savor the moment." And then there's enhancing, which is kind of boosting an emotion.
我会避免这些事情，所以继续前进，享受这一刻。”然后是增强，也就是增强情绪。
So that's PRIME.
所以这就是 PRIME。
That's the goals.
这就是目标。
The strategies we can talk about for hours.
我们可以谈论几个小时的策略。
We'll get into that a little bit later.
我们稍后会讨论这个问题。
And then I think what most people misunderstand is that what we regulate are emotions.
然后我认为大多数人的误解是我们调节的是情绪。
And what I do, for example, to deal with my anxiety is really different than my anger, than my worry, or other emotions, in that it's a function of the emotion you're feeling.
例如，我为应对焦虑所做的事情与我的愤怒、担忧或其他情绪确实不同，因为它是你所感受到的情绪的函数。
It's a function of me as an individual.
这是我个人的一个功能。
I am on the neurotic side.
我属于神经质的一方。
I'm on the introverted side.
我属于内向的一方。
And so my strategy selection would be influenced by that.
所以我的策略选择会受到影响。
And then the context, like right here, right now.
然后是上下文，就像此时此地。
I know you're into fitness and running and all this kind of stuff, and I'm like, "Andrew, I'm really nervous right now.
我知道你喜欢健身和跑步之类的东西，我想，“安德鲁，我现在真的很紧张。
Do you mind if we take a break and I go for a run?" You're like, "It's a little weird, Marc." So context matters.
你介意我们休息一下，我去跑步吗？”你会说，“这有点奇怪，马克。”所以背景很重要。
Right now, if I were anxious, it's like, "Marc, you got to use some cognitive strategies or breathing work.
现在，如果我感到焦虑，就会说：“马克，你必须使用一些认知策略或呼吸练习。
I can't go anywhere, so I'm stuck." And I think people need to see that kind of full spectrum.
我哪儿也去不了，所以我被困住了。”我认为人们需要看到这种全方位的情况。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I feel like there's a close tie between emotion regulation and self-awareness.
我觉得情绪调节和自我意识之间存在密切的联系。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I feel like there's a tension between self-awareness and being able to experience and enjoy life.
但我觉得自我意识与体验和享受生活的能力之间存在着紧张关系。
For instance, if I'm feeling anxious I'm thinking about how I'm appearing, how I'm sounding, that it's uncomfortable.
例如，如果我感到焦虑，我就会想到自己的表现、听起来如何，这会让我感到不舒服。
But if I get totally outside of that and just be in the experience that I'm in, then there's the potential to say the wrong thing or, offend somebody, or who knows.
但如果我完全脱离了这种状态，只是沉浸在我所处的经历中，那么就有可能说错话，或者冒犯某人，或者谁知道。
So when we talk about emotion regulation, what's the best approach to that, that doesn't keep us in a subtext in our mind and sort of out of the room?
那么，当我们谈论情绪调节时，最好的方法是什么，既不让我们陷入潜台词，又不至于让我们陷入困境？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because when we're alone, it's quite a bit different.
因为当我们独自一人时，情况会有所不同。
We can breathe, we can use whatever self-regulation tools we want.
我们可以呼吸，我们可以使用任何我们想要的自我调节工具。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Or ruminate.
或者反省。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or ruminate, or write, or text or call a friend.
或沉思，或写作，或发短信或打电话给朋友。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whatever it is.
不管是什么。
But when we're at work, at school, on a podcast, if there's that subtext like, "I'm not locked in here.
但当我们在工作、在学校、在播客时，如果有这样的潜台词，“我没有被锁在这里。
I'm not in the experience completely.
我没有完全体验到这一点。
I'm self-regulating or paying attention to myself," that can be very uncomfortable in its own right.
我正在自我调节或关注自己”，这本身就可能会让人非常不舒服。
It's work.
这是工作。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It's effortful, and not always the best effort if it's going down the rabbit hole.
这是很努力的，但如果掉进兔子洞，并不总是最好的努力。
I think that you're getting at, which is this mindset piece, that the first step is our mindset about our feelings.
我认为你正在理解，这就是心态部分，第一步是我们对我们的感受的心态。
So let me ask you, what's your mindset around anxiety?
那么我问你，你对于焦虑的心态是怎样的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Well, I have assumptions around it.
嗯，我对此有一些假设。
I was telling someone the other day, because I spend a lot of time alone and I'm fairly introverted, but if I go into a crowded environment, for the first five, six minutes, I'm feeling kind of overwhelmed, like, "Whoa, it is really crowded in here.
前几天我告诉某人，因为我花了很多时间独处，而且我相当内向，但如果我进入一个拥挤的环境，在前五、六分钟内，我会感到有点不知所措，就像，“哇，这里真的很拥挤。
There are a lot of people." And I actually feel like I have a bit of a social interaction disorder for those first few minutes.
有很多人。”事实上，我觉得在最初的几分钟里我有点社交互动障碍。
But then after about 20, 30 minutes, I'm in that experience, and I feel very comfortable.
但大约20、30分钟后，我就进入了那种体验，感觉非常舒服。
So I have this mindset that social anxiety is something that is like wading into water.
所以我有这样的心态：社交焦虑就像涉水一样。
It's always a little bit too cold at first, or usually is a little too cold, but over time you acclimate.
一开始总是有点太冷，或者通常是有点太冷，但随着时间的推移，你就会适应。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
All right.
好吧。
You didn't answer the question.
你没有回答问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
So I've got to frame it another way.
所以我必须以另一种方式来构建它。
What's your relationship to anxiety?
你和焦虑有什么关系？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I hate it.
我讨厌它。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Okay.
好的。
There you go.
就这样吧。
See how you automatically were like, "I hate anxiety"?
看到你不自觉地说“我讨厌焦虑”吗？
I did, too, for most of my life.
我一生中的大部分时间也是如此。
And then I was with a friend who's a neuroscientist, about anxiety, and she said to me, "Marc, tell me all the things that make you anxious." I said, "Well, I'm anxious about fundraising, and I've got to raise the money to keep the research going.
然后我和一位神经科学家朋友讨论了焦虑问题，她对我说：“马克，告诉我所有让你焦虑的事情。”我说：“嗯，我很担心筹集资金，我必须筹集资金才能继续研究。
I want to make sure that everything we do is high quality." And I went on and on.
我想确保我们所做的一切都是高质量的。”我继续说下去。
And then she asked me another question.
然后她又问了我一个问题。
She said, "Well, what do those have in common?" I'm like, "What are you talking about?" And then I thought about it and I said, "Well, those are things that are important to me." And so she said, "So why would anxiety be a bad thing?" And I think that we have to learn how to adopt a mindset around emotions, that there are no bad emotions.
她说：“那么，这些有什么共同点呢？”我说：“你在说什么？”然后我想了想，然后说：“嗯，这些对我来说很重要。”所以她说：“那么为什么焦虑会是一件坏事呢？”我认为我们必须学会如何围绕情绪采取一种心态，不存在不良情绪。
It's what we do with our emotions that makes them harmful or difficult for us to live our lives.
正是我们对情绪的处理方式让它们对我们的生活有害或变得困难。
But anxiety is a good thing.
但焦虑是一件好事。
It's saying there's perceived uncertainty around the future.
这表明未来存在不确定性。
Like, I'm anxious about how I'm going to act in this environment or how I'm going to be perceived in this environment.
就像，我担心我在这种环境中将如何行事，或者在这种环境中我将如何被视为。
It's not a bad thing because you want to be perceived well.
这并不是一件坏事，因为你希望别人对你有好的印象。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
But if you automatically assume it's bad, then it's going to put you on the path to dysregulation.
但如果你自动认为它是不好的，那么它就会让你走上失调的道路。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if we accept the idea that all emotions are okay-
所以如果我们接受所有情绪都可以的想法-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but that the expression of all emotions in every context is not okay.
但在任何情况下表达所有情绪都是不合适的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That it should be context-specific.
它应该是针对具体情况的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I actually think that provides some freedom.
我实际上认为这提供了一些自由。
I can feel that freedom.
我能感受到那种自由。
Like, it's okay to be super angry.
就像，超级生气是可以的。
It's okay to be frustrated.
感到沮丧没关系。
It's okay to be anxious.
焦虑是可以的。
But how that's expressed is what's critical.
但如何表达才是关键。
It makes good intuitive sense.
这具有很好的直观意义。
I think that what's hard to know is what to do with the emotion if there is no outward expression of it.
我认为，很难知道如果没有外在的表达，该如何处理这种情绪。
Where should it go?
它应该去哪里？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Well, it doesn't have to go anywhere sometimes.
好吧，有时它不必去任何地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Sometimes it can just be.
有时可能就是这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
And that's a big part of regulation, which is that a lot of people think emotion regulation is getting rid of a feeling.
这是调节的一个重要部分，很多人认为情绪调节就是摆脱一种感觉。
It's not what it is.
事实并非如此。
It's just having another relationship to it.
只是与之有另一种关系。
I'm 56.
我56岁了。
I've had anxiety or lived with it for a lot of my life, but sometimes I just say hello to it.
我一生中很长一段时间都患有焦虑症，或者与之共存，但有时我只是向它打个招呼。
It's like, "Hey, how you doing today?" And it goes away pretty quickly.
就像，“嘿，你今天过得怎么样？”而且它消失得很快。
Or it just sits there.
或者它只是坐在那里。
I think that's the other thing about emotion regulation that people kind of misunderstand.
我认为这是人们对情绪调节的另一点误解。
They think it's like, "I've got to check in with how I'm feeling all day long and then regulate.
他们认为这就像，“我必须检查我一整天的感受，然后进行调节。
Check in, regulate." You'd become psychotic if you did that all day long.
检查、调节。”如果你整天这样做，你就会变得精神病。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Most of the time, our emotions are in the background.
大多数时候，我们的情绪都处于幕后。
If you thought about your feelings all day long, you wouldn't be able to do this podcast.
如果你整天想着自己的感受，你就做不了这个播客。
That's unproductive.
那是没有生产力的。
Emotions matter when there's a shift in our environment or the relationships.
当我们的环境或人际关系发生变化时，情绪就会变得很重要。
If you said something that offended me, boom, I'm activated.
如果你说了一些冒犯我的话，那么我就会被激活。
I'm feeling angry or kind of shocked.
我感到愤怒或者有点震惊。
Then I have to make a choice in that moment, like, how do I manage it?
然后我必须在那一刻做出选择，比如，我该如何应对？
That's where the magic happens.
这就是奇迹发生的地方。
But on a day-to-day basis, thank God we wouldn't want to do that.
但在日常生活中，感谢上帝，我们不想这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I would like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Joovv.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Joovv。
Joovv makes medical grade red light therapy devices.
Joovv 生产医疗级红光治疗设备。
Now, if there's one thing that I have consistently emphasized on this podcast, it is the incredible impact that light can have on our biology and our health.
现在，如果我在这个播客中一直强调一件事，那就是光对我们的生物学和健康产生的令人难以置信的影响。
Now, in addition to sunlight, which I've talked about a lot on this podcast, red light, near-infrared, and infrared light have been specifically shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of cellular and organ health.
现在，除了我在这个播客中多次谈论的阳光之外，红光、近红外光和红外光已被具体证明对改善细胞和器官健康的许多方面具有积极作用。
These include faster muscle recovery, improved skin health, wound healing, improvements in acne, reduced pain and inflammation, improved mitochondrial function, and even improvements in vision.
这些包括更快的肌肉恢复、改善皮肤健康、伤口愈合、改善痤疮、减少疼痛和炎症、改善线粒体功能，甚至改善视力。
Nowadays, there are a lot of red light devices out there.
现在市面上有很多闯红灯的装置。
But what sets Joovv lights apart, and why they're my preferred red light therapy device, is that they use clinically proven wavelengths, meaning they use the specific wavelengths of red light, near-infrared, and infrared light in combination to trigger the optimal cellular adaptations.
但 Joovv 灯的与众不同之处以及为什么它们成为我首选的红光治疗设备是因为它们使用经过临床验证的波长，这意味着它们结合使用特定波长的红光、近红外光和红外光来触发最佳的细胞适应。
Personally, I use the Joovv whole body panel about three to four times a week, usually for about 10 to 20 minutes per session, and I use the Joovv handheld light both at home and when I travel.
就我个人而言，我每周使用 Joovv 全身面板大约三到四次，通常每次大约 10 到 20 分钟，并且我在家和旅行时都使用 Joovv 手持灯。
If you would like to try Joovv, they're offering up to $400 off select products for listeners of this podcast.
如果您想尝试 Joovv，他们将为该播客的听众提供精选产品高达 400 美元的折扣。
To learn more, visit Joovv, spelled J-O-O-V-V, .com/huberman.
要了解更多信息，请访问 Joovv，拼写为 J-O-O-V-V，.com/huberman。
Again, that's J-O-O-V-V, .com/huberman.
再说一次，这是 J-O-O-V-V，.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Lingo.
今天的节目也是Lingo给我们带来的。
One of the most important factors in your short and long-term health is your body's ability to manage glucose over time.
影响您短期和长期健康的最重要因素之一是您的身体随着时间的推移控制血糖的能力。
Glucose directly impacts our brain function, mood, and energy.
葡萄糖直接影响我们的大脑功能、情绪和能量。
You want your glucose relatively stable across the day without big peaks or valleys.
您希望血糖在一天中相对稳定，没有大的峰值或谷值。
This is why I use the continuous glucose monitor and app from Lingo by Abbott.
这就是我使用 Lingo by Abbott 的连续血糖监测仪和应用程序的原因。
Lingo provides minute-by-minute glucose data directly within the app, showing you how your glucose responds to food, exercise, and stress.
Lingo 直接在应用程序内提供每分钟的血糖数据，向您展示血糖对食物、运动和压力的反应。
This information can help you make smarter choices to support your health both now and in the long term.
这些信息可以帮助您做出更明智的选择，以支持您当前和长期的健康。
The CDC estimates that more than one in three American adults has prediabetes, and that many of these people don't know they are living with prediabetes.
疾病预防控制中心估计，超过三分之一的美国成年人患有糖尿病前期，其中许多人并不知道自己患有糖尿病前期。
Visibility about how your diet and activity affect your glucose can be the first step toward informed conversations with your doctor and making smarter daily choices.
了解您的饮食和活动如何影响您的血糖可能是与您的医生进行知情对话并做出更明智的日常选择的第一步。
If you'd like to try Lingo, Lingo is offering Huberman Lab listeners in the US and UK 10% off a four-week plan.
如果您想尝试 Lingo，Lingo 将为美国和英国的 Huberman Lab 听众提供为期 4 周的 10% 折扣。
Just visit hellolingo.com/huberman for more information.
请访问 hellolingo.com/huberman 了解更多信息。
Terms and conditions apply.
条款和条件适用。
Again, that's hellolingo.com/huberman.
再说一次，这是hellolingo.com/huberman。
I'd love to poke at some of the assumptions that I know I have, but I wonder if other people have as well.
我很想探讨一些我知道的假设，但我想知道其他人是否也有这样的假设。
Sure.
当然。
My dad's from South America, and I remember long ago he said because he went to formal schools, he said that he was raised with this terrible idea, he called it terrible, that if somebody was happy and they smiled a lot, that they were stupid.
我父亲来自南美洲，我记得很久以前他说因为他上的是正规学校，他说他是在这个可怕的想法中长大的，他称之为可怕的，如果有人很高兴并且他们经常微笑，那么他们就是愚蠢的。
And I said, "What is that about?" And he said, well, that came, in his words, from the British school system where the idea was that you were supposed to be skeptical of things, and that if you were happy or happy-go-lucky and you weren't drinking, that people would assume that you were an idiot because you weren't bothered by the problems in the world and you were accepting of the things that you heard and were told.
我说：“那是关于什么的？”他说，嗯，用他的话说，这来自英国的学校系统，那里的想法是你应该对事物持怀疑态度，如果你快乐或无忧无虑，而且你不喝酒，人们会认为你是个白痴，因为你不被世界上的问题困扰，你接受你听到和被告知的事情。
In other words, you're an idiot.
换句话说，你是个白痴。
And my dad's a very happy person now.
我爸爸现在是一个非常幸福的人。
Sure.
当然。
And he has talked about having to break that mold, that it's okay to wake up and take a walk and be happy, that it's okay to be happy.
他谈到必须打破这种模式，醒来并散步并快乐是可以的，快乐是可以的。
And so that's just one thing that I think I grew up thinking, too, and maybe not to that extreme, that especially in academia, to be happy is to not be discerning.
所以这只是我成长过程中思考的一件事，也许没有那么极端，特别是在学术界，快乐就是不挑剔。
It's totally false, right?
这完全是假的，对吧？
Of course.
当然。
Now, we're a long way from England right now, and that's probably something more of my dad's generation than mine, but I think the idea nowadays does seem to be that if you're happy-go-lucky and you're feeling good, that you must not be thinking about all the terrible things going on in the world, or that it's insensitive to those that are suffering, et cetera.
现在，我们离英国还很远，这可能是我父亲那一代人的风格，而不是我那一代人的风格，但我认为现在的想法似乎是，如果你无忧无虑，感觉良好，你就一定不要去想世界上正在发生的所有可怕的事情，或者对那些正在受苦的人麻木不仁，等等。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
I'd love your thoughts on this idea that we don't give ourselves permission to feel as good as we might feel because of some social pressure or assumptions that we've internalized.
我很想听听您对这个想法的看法，即由于我们内化的一些社会压力或假设，我们不允许自己感觉尽可能好。
Which is all learned.
这都是学到的。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
And so these are learned phenomenon.
所以这些都是习得的现象。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
And it's sometimes outside influence.
有时是外部影响。
So talk about happiness.
所以说一下幸福吧。
As I was writing and I was doing the chapter on mindsets around emotion and talking about this relationship with different emotions, and we could play around with this all day long, I could say, what's your relationship to anger?
当我写作时，我正在写关于情绪心态的章节，并谈论这种与不同情绪的关系，我们可以整天玩这个，我可以说，你和愤怒有什么关系？
What's your relationship to happiness and contentment?
你与幸福和满足有什么关系？
And all of a sudden, you start realizing, wow, I have a complicated relationship with my emotions.
突然间，你开始意识到，哇，我和自己的情绪有着复杂的关系。
And I was thinking about it with happiness, too.
我也很高兴地想到这一点。
And for me, what's interesting, which is different completely from your dad's, is because of my kind of tough childhood and a lot of bullying, is that I would go to school one day and I would be happy, and I'd see the bullies, and all of a sudden, they'd say things like, "What are you so happy about today, Brackett?" And I didn't realize that until I was writing, and then I would get on stage and give a, I do a lot of public speaking, and I'd be standing there feeling really good with my speaking, and then I'd get the applause at the end and I would start kind of looking down, and I started realizing, I'm uncomfortable being happy.
对我来说，有趣的是，这与你父亲的完全不同，是因为我的童年很艰难，并且受到了很多欺凌，有一天我会去学校，我会很高兴，我会看到那些欺凌者，突然间，他们会说这样的话，“你今天为什么这么高兴，布拉克特？”我没有意识到这一点，直到我开始写作，然后我会上台发表演讲，我做了很多公开演讲，我会站在那里，感觉自己的演讲真的很好，然后我会在最后得到掌声，我会开始往下看，我开始意识到，我对快乐感到不舒服。
Hmm.
唔。
I'm waiting for something to go wrong because in my childhood, happy meant we're going to bring you down.
我在等待出问题，因为在我的童年，快乐意味着我们会让你失望。
We all have these kind of developmental connections, for lack of a better term, to our different emotions.
由于缺乏更好的术语，我们所有人都与不同的情绪存在这种发展联系。
And I think that it gets back to the phenomenon.
我认为这又回到了现象本身。
There's no good or bad emotions.
没有好的或坏的情绪。
Life, firstly, some of it is genetic and biological, our proclivity to experience certain emotions.
首先，生命的一部分是遗传和生物的，是我们体验某些情绪的倾向。
The regulation piece is all learned.
调节部分都学会了。
You're not born with a pocket full of evidence-based strategies to regulate it.
你并不是生来就拥有装满基于证据的策略来监管它的。
It's just like, I don't know about you growing up, my father was very different.
就像，我不知道你的成长经历，我的父亲非常不同。
My father was the angry guy, and he'd say, "Son, you got to toughen up." I'm like, "Dad, look at me.
我父亲是个很生气的人，他会说：“儿子，你必须坚强起来。”我说：“爸爸，看着我。
Come on, let's move on.
来吧，我们继续前进。
It's not happening." And you know that I have a fifth degree black, but I became the tough guy that my father wanted me to be, but nevertheless, what does that even mean?
这并没有发生。”你知道我有五度黑人，但我成为了父亲希望我成为的硬汉，但这意味着什么？
But growing up, when I was struggling, my parents missed a lot of the cues.
但在我成长的过程中，当我陷入困境时，我的父母错过了很多线索。
Come down the stairs, I didn't have my father say, "Son, I'm noticing a shift in your emotions today.
走下楼梯时，我没有让父亲说：“儿子，我注意到你今天的情绪发生了变化。
Your posture's different, your facial expression is different.
你的姿势不一样，你的表情也不一样。
Let me give you a research-based strategy to help you regulate your anxiety, stress, pressure, fear."
让我给你一个基于研究的策略来帮助你调节你的焦虑、压力、压力和恐惧。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
No, it wasn't even a construct.
不，它甚至不是一个构造。
I don't know, but did you grow up with a concept of emotion regulation?
我不知道，但你从小就有情绪调节的概念吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Definitely.
绝对是。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
You did?
你做到了吗？
That's awesome.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there was a big gender split.
而且性别差异很大。
In my home, I had the sort of belief, based on the context, that women could express their emotions, big or small, and that men weren't supposed to lose their temper.
在我家里，我有一种信念，根据具体情况，女性可以表达自己的情绪，无论大小，而男性不应该发脾气。
Men weren't supposed to be angry.
男人不应该生气。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
That's interesting.
这很有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
It's kind of counter to the way people think about it nowadays, right?
这与当今人们的想法相反，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
The men are like, the more power you have, the more anger you can express.
男人们就像是，你拥有的权力越大，你就越能表达愤怒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, the complete opposite of that, in fact, and I don't think he'll mind.
哦，事实上，完全相反，我认为他不会介意。
My dad's been on this podcast, and we have a great relationship now.
我爸爸一直在这个播客上，我们现在关系很好。
And we've done work, and it's been awesome.
我们已经完成了工作，而且非常棒。
It really has.
确实有。
And I remember when I was a kid, if he got angry, he would blink.
我记得当我还是个孩子的时候，如果他生气了，他就会眨眼。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And now I know that as behavioral suppression.
现在我知道这就是行为抑制。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He was blinking.
他眨着眼睛。
But I can't ever remember my dad having an outburst, ever.
但我不记得我爸爸曾经发过脾气。
So I just internalized this idea, like, okay, you don't have outbursts.
所以我只是内化了这个想法，就像，好吧，你没有爆发。
But I have a certain side of my family, my extended family, that's from New Jersey-
但我的家人中有一部分，我的大家庭，来自新泽西州——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Oh, okay.
哦，好吧。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where words are sometimes used as weapons.
言语有时被用作武器。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And anger is a bit more outward sometimes, at least in that side.
有时，愤怒会更加外在，至少在这一方面是这样。
And then I have a South American side, where things are more formal and boxed away.
然后我有南美方面，那里的事情更加正式和封闭。
And I think I internalized a bit of both.
我想我已经内化了两者。
And so I have all sorts of constructs around who's allowed to express-
所以我对谁可以表达有各种各样的想法——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
emotions and what extremes.
情绪和什么极端。
But no, I didn't observe a lot of anger.
但不，我没有观察到很多愤怒。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
But maybe a little suppression.
但也许有点压抑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Lots of suppression.
多多压制。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Which is regulation.
这就是监管。
It's just-
这只是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
...
...
not the adaptive kind usually.
通常不是适应性的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
And I probably averaged the two-
我可能会平均这两个-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in my own life.
在我自己的生活中。
But in terms of happiness, I think the same thing, now that I think about it, that it's okay for women to be fully expressive and for men to be-- it's a bit more of the 1950s model-
但就幸福而言，我认为同样的事情，现在我想起来，女性充分表达是可以的，而男性则可以——这更像是 20 世纪 50 年代的模式——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that was very present in my home, and in my mind.
这在我的家里和我的脑海中非常明显。
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah, I think with happiness, as with any emotion, it's about the time and the place for happiness.
是的，我认为幸福，就像任何情感一样，取决于幸福的时间和地点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
We have research that shows that people who strive to be happy all the time actually are more miserable, because it's hard to live up to that all the time.
我们的研究表明，一直努力快乐的人实际上更痛苦，因为很难一直做到这一点。
People who strive for more contentment in their life actually seem to have greater wellbeing.
那些在生活中追求更多满足的人实际上似乎拥有更大的幸福感。
And so I just think, again, it goes back to these mindsets around emotions, that there's no good or bad emotion.
所以我再次认为，这又回到了围绕情绪的心态，情绪没有好坏之分。
Anger's fine.
生气就好。
Obviously, if it's too intense and it's lasting too long, it's probably not going to be good.
显然，如果太强烈并且持续太久，可能不会有什么好处。
Happiness is something that we should experience, but if we're attached to it, it's going to be problematic because every day's not a sunny day.
幸福是我们应该去体验的东西，但是如果我们执着于它，就会出问题，因为并不是每一天都是晴天。
There are rainy days, too, and you got to be comfortable with the rainy days.
也有雨天，你必须适应雨天。
And the important thing also is not just our feelings about our feelings.
重要的还不仅仅是我们对自己感受的感受。
It's also about our mindsets around our capacity to deal with those feelings.
它还与我们处理这些感受的能力有关。
Do I believe I am capable of managing my anger?
我相信我有能力控制自己的愤怒吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Do I believe I'm capable of dealing with the disappointment?
我相信我有能力应对失望吗？
And we find a distribution of scores for that, too.
我们也找到了分数的分布。
Going back to my dad, we have very different fathers.
回到我父亲，我们有非常不同的父亲。
My father would say things like, "Son, this is the way I deal with my anger.
我父亲会这样说：“儿子，这就是我处理愤怒的方式。
You're going to have to get used to it." I would say, "Now, sounds like you got a fixed mindset, Dad." "There are other options to deal with your anger." But he was sort of like, "This is the way I am.
你必须要习惯它。”我会说：“听起来你有固定型思维模式，爸爸。” “还有其他选择来处理你的愤怒。”但他有点像，“这就是我的样子。
You're going to have to deal with it." No learning interests.
你将不得不面对它。”没有学习兴趣。
Whereas nowadays, I hope to help people see, wait a minute, is that emotion working for you in your relationships or not?
而现在，我希望帮助人们了解，等一下，这种情绪在你的人际关系中是否有效？
If it's not, there are alternatives.
如果不是，还有其他选择。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We've been talking about boys and men-
我们一直在谈论男孩和男人——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
quite a bit already here.
已经在这里很多了。
So maybe we just continue-
所以也许我们就继续——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Please
请
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in that direction, even though we will touch on girls and women and emotions as it relates to them, too.
朝这个方向发展，尽管我们也会触及女孩和妇女以及与她们相关的情感。
I hear a lot nowadays about problems for boys and young men in emotion regulation, in defining masculinity.
我现在听到很多关于男孩和年轻人在情绪调节和定义男性气质方面的问题。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm obviously interested in this, but I also acknowledge that I'm Gen X.
我显然对此很感兴趣，但我也承认我是 X 一代。
I was born in 1975.
我出生于1975年。
Things were very different.
情况非常不同。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I know I have a giant blind spot to their experience, right?
我知道我对他们的经历有一个巨大的盲点，对吧？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I just do.
我就是这么做的。
I acknowledge that because I don't really have a finger on the pulse of what life is like for a 15-year-old, or 12-year-old, or 20-year-old guy out there.
我承认这一点，因为我并不真正了解 15 岁、12 岁或 20 岁年轻人的生活是什么样的。
What are the pain points, and what's going right?
痛点是什么，进展如何？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
There's a lot going on, and I think probably the big issue here with gender is vulnerability.
发生了很多事情，我认为性别方面的最大问题可能是脆弱性。
That historically, this is not just now, this is going back to when we were kids, when our parents were kids, go back to other periods in time, is that vulnerability, especially for men, is weak.
从历史上看，这不仅仅是现在，这可以追溯到我们还是孩子的时候，当我们的父母还是孩子的时候，回到其他时期，脆弱性，特别是对于男性来说，是脆弱的。
You got to be tough.
你必须坚强。
You're the person who has to make the ends meet.
你是那个必须维持收支平衡的人。
You're the hunter-gatherer.
你是狩猎采集者。
And obviously, times have changed, and what we find is that the thought today for many boys and men to be emotional-- firstly, emotional alone has a connotation of feminine and out of control.
显然，时代已经变了，我们发现，今天许多男孩和男人都认为情绪化——首先，情绪化本身就有女性化和失控的含义。
That's just the way people think about it.
这就是人们的想法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Still?
还是？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really?
真的吗？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
When you say, "Don't be so emotional"-
当你说“别那么情绪化”时——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
...
...
it's considered to be a negative thing, it's considered to be feminine, and it's considered to be hysterical.
它被认为是消极的事情，它被认为是女性化的，它被认为是歇斯底里的。
That's why I call it emotion skills, not emotional skills.
这就是为什么我称之为情感技能，而不是情感技能。
Anyway.
反正。
So vulnerability's a big piece of it.
所以脆弱性是其中的一个重要部分。
Let's This is going to be a great conversation between two guys.
让我们这将是两个人之间的一次精彩的对话。
So what's your relationship to vulnerability?
那么你与脆弱性有什么关系呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Totally context-dependent.
完全依赖于上下文。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are people I'm not afraid at all to cry in front of.
有些人我根本不害怕在他们面前哭泣。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are contexts and people that I would never cry in front of.
有些环境和人是我永远不会哭泣的。
I've cried on very public podcasts, two-
我在非常公开的播客上哭过，两次-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
maybe three.
也许三个。
One here, when Martha Beck came on, she really- She wasn't trying, but it was happening.
其中之一，当玛莎·贝克上场时，她真的——她并没有尝试，但事情正在发生。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then on Steven Bartlett's podcast, I think perhaps on another.
然后是史蒂文·巴特利特的播客，我想也许是另一个。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it was tough.
这很艰难。
I mean, I didn't want to watch those clips, but I'm glad I did it.
我的意思是，我不想看那些剪辑，但我很高兴我这么做了。
So totally context-dependent.
所以完全依赖于上下文。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah, and that makes sense.
是的，这是有道理的。
What I'm really pushing for is around emotion and about talking about feelings.
我真正推动的是围绕情感和谈论感受。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
And so what we find is that boys generally feel more inhibited just saying how they feel, especially when it comes to kind of the sad disappointment, ashamed emotions.
所以我们发现，男孩通常在说出自己的感受时会感到更加压抑，尤其是当涉及到悲伤、失望、羞愧的情绪时。
It's much easier to express the anger, and the outwardly expressive emotions, but the deep ones that are self-conscious, that make you vulnerable, tends to be tough.
表达愤怒和外在的情绪要容易得多，但那些不自觉的、让你脆弱的深层情绪往往会很艰难。
And the question is, why is that the case?
问题是，为什么会这样？
What are your hypotheses?
你的假设是什么？
Why would it be that so many boys feel like they're going to be perceived as feminine if they say they're disappointed or sad or ashamed?
为什么这么多男孩会觉得，如果他们说自己失望、悲伤或羞愧，他们就会被视为女性化？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What immediately comes to mind is that somehow it is linked with the word incapable-
我立刻想到的是，不知怎的，它与“无能力”这个词联系在一起——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or incapability.
或无能力。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's an incredible video of David Goggins breaking down crying-
有一段令人难以置信的视频，大卫戈金斯哭了——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
on stage, and he was celebrated for that.
在舞台上，他因此而受到庆祝。
But David Goggins did a lot of things beforehand-
但大卫·戈金斯事先做了很多事情——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and no one denies his capability-
没有人否认他的能力——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
his ability.
他的能力。
So when he cried, it was like, awesome, he's willing to go to this really hard place.
所以当他哭的时候，就好像，太棒了，他愿意去这个非常艰难的地方。
Yet another difficult thing that David can do that most-
Yet another difficult thing that David can do that most-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
people can't do, and you just go like, "Awesome," and he's owning it.
people can't do, and you just go like, "Awesome," and he's owning it.
And I stepped back from that and realized, but we already knew former Navy SEAL, went from 300 plus pounds to this fit individual.
我退后一步，意识到，但我们已经认识了前海豹突击队员，他从 300 多磅的体重变成了这个健康的人。
Goggins.
戈金斯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He's a verb, an adjective-
他是一个动词，一个形容词——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Exactly
正是如此
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and a pronoun, right?
和一个代词，对吗？
So it's like, shit, if someone else just breaks down on stage, you go, "Okay, I hope this guy can make it in life." That's the narrative.
所以就像，妈的，如果其他人在舞台上崩溃了，你会说，“好吧，我希望这个人能在生活中成功。”这就是叙述。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
It's like weak.
就好像很弱一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You worry sometimes for people like that.
有时你会为这样的人担心。
I don't worry about David Goggins.
我不担心大卫·戈金斯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Because he's a superstar, and we have a different mindset around him again.
Because he's a superstar, and we have a different mindset around him again.
And so he has the permission to do whatever the hell he wants, and-
And so he has the permission to do whatever the hell he wants, and-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, that permission thing, forgive me, but this notion of earned the right.
是的，关于许可的事情，请原谅我，但是这种“赢得权利”的概念。
There are people like James Cameron who wrote all these movies and was famous for doing all these super difficult things, and then a few years back was claiming that testosterone poisoned men-
像詹姆斯·卡梅隆这样的人写了所有这些电影，并因做所有这些超级困难的事情而闻名，然后几年前声称睾丸激素毒害了男人——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and that his testosterone was the worst thing.
他的睾丸激素是最糟糕的。
And everyone that liked his movies said, "Hey, listen, easy for you to say now.
每个喜欢他的电影的人都说：“嘿，听着，你现在说起来很容易。
You built that career on some of that." So it wasn't, in my opinion, taken that seriously.
你的职业生涯就建立在其中的一些基础上。” So it wasn't, in my opinion, taken that seriously.
He may not like-
他可能不喜欢——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I agree
我同意
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it if he hears this, but I'm like, that's like when our colleagues are like, "Oh, I'm no longer going to publish in 'Nature' and 'Science.' I'm going to go to these like-
it if he hears this, but I'm like, that's like when our colleagues are like, "Oh, I'm no longer going to publish in 'Nature' and 'Science.'我要去这些地方——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
these open source journals." You got in the National Academy on "Nature" and "Science" papers-
这些开源期刊。” You got in the National Academy on "Nature" and "Science" papers-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Exactly
正是如此
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
so you're not kidding anybody.
所以你没有在开玩笑。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Well, you're making an important point, which is that once you...
Well, you're making an important point, which is that once you...
I always find it interesting with celebrities, once they become super famous, I can now disclose I've been depressed or I've been anxious or I've been overwhelmed.
我总是觉得名人很有趣，一旦他们变得超级出名，我现在可以透露我一直沮丧，我一直焦虑，或者我已经不知所措。
But for some reason, they didn't want to take that risk when they were younger in their careers because, again, the perception is like, oh, anxiety, depression, whatever it is, that's weak.
但出于某种原因，他们不想在职业生涯年轻时冒这个风险，因为，再一次，人们的看法是，哦，焦虑、抑郁，无论是什么，这都是软弱的。
And so that's the point.
这就是重点。
The point is that we raise kids, boys in particular, to believe that these feminine type emotions, which are not feminine by nature, they're just human emotions, are weak, and therefore that means I'm going to be perceived as not only weak, but potentially homosexual, and that's also a stigma.
关键是我们培养孩子，尤其是男孩，让他们相信这些女性化的情感，本质上不是女性化的，它们只是人类的情感，是软弱的，因此这意味着我不仅会被认为是软弱的，而且可能是同性恋，这也是一种耻辱。
And so what do I do?
那我该怎么办呢？
I suppress, I deny, I ignore.
我压制，我否认，我忽视。
Interestingly enough, for women, what the research shows is they're much less likely to suppress or deny, much more likely to ruminate.
Interestingly enough, for women, what the research shows is they're much less likely to suppress or deny, much more likely to ruminate.
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Couple of things.
有几件事。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
First of all, I feel like, and I could be wrong, but I feel like the stereotype of gay men being feminine has fallen away somewhat.
First of all, I feel like, and I could be wrong, but I feel like the stereotype of gay men being feminine has fallen away somewhat.
I grew up in a skateboarding community.
我在滑板社区长大。
There's Brian Anderson, he has a big exposé in the, not exposé, where they exposed him, where he-
There's Brian Anderson, he has a big exposé in the, not exposé, where they exposed him, where he-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
voluntarily came out in-
自愿出来的——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
"The New York Times." He's one of the most aggressive skateboarders out there.
“纽约时报。” He's one of the most aggressive skateboarders out there.
Aggressive in the skateboarding, right?
滑板运动很有侵略性，对吧？
So, and he's a big dude.
所以，他是个大家伙。
So I feel like that stereotype has kind of shifted a bit, where people assume that there's a range.
So I feel like that stereotype has kind of shifted a bit, where people assume that there's a range.
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I think that you're ambitious there.
我认为你在那里很有雄心。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I think you're right.
我认为你是对的。
We know-
我们知道——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So being gay is still sissy.
所以同性恋仍然是娘娘腔。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah, for sure.
是的，当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
If you ask 100 people to run like a gay man-
如果你要求 100 个人像同性恋一样跑步——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're still caught in the "Revenge of the Nerds"-
They're still caught in the "Revenge of the Nerds"-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
movie.
电影。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
They're going to show you someone who's more feminine or kind of stereotypically feminine, to be honest with you.
老实说，他们会向你展示一个更具女性气质或典型女性气质的人。
So while we know, certainly, I remember when I was 18, I went to a gay bar, and I grew up in New Jersey.
所以，虽然我们当然知道，但我记得当我 18 岁时，我去了一家同性恋酒吧，我在新泽西州长大。
It was very homophobic.
这是非常仇视同性恋的。
The only gay person I really knew was my mother's hairdresser, who was very flamboyant.
我唯一真正认识的同性恋者是我母亲的理发师，他非常张扬。
And then I went to this gay bar and- I was like, "Oh my God, it's like Wall Street executives here, and there's football players out there." It was a total shift in my perception.
And then I went to this gay bar and- I was like, "Oh my God, it's like Wall Street executives here, and there's football players out there."这是我观念的彻底转变。
Nevertheless, if you ask the majority of people, it's still considered to be, the mindset is feminine.
Nevertheless, if you ask the majority of people, it's still considered to be, the mindset is feminine.
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Got it.
明白了。
Yeah, I guess if you grew up training in gyms, which I did, you're around a lot of very physically strong-
是的，我想如果你是在健身房训练长大的，就像我所做的那样，你周围有很多身体非常强壮的人-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
gay men.
男同性恋者。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because they were kind of early to the gym culture.
因为他们很早就接触了健身房文化。
So maybe my lens on that is a little distorted.
所以也许我的镜头有点扭曲。
There's something interesting around this notion of, sissy showing emotion in boys.
“娘娘腔”在男孩身上表现出情感这个概念很有趣。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And earlier, we were talking about the movie "Stand by Me," movie I absolutely love.
早些时候，我们谈论了电影《伴我同行》，我非常喜欢这部电影。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it's just like a perfect story.
我认为这就像一个完美的故事。
It's a Stephen King story, right?
这是斯蒂芬·金的故事，对吧？
Turned into a movie.
变成了电影。
I think Rob Reiner wrote that movie.
我认为罗伯·莱纳写了那部电影。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And what's interesting about that movie is the transition that happens right around puberty in between junior-- It's right before junior high school.
这部电影的有趣之处在于，发生在青春期前后、初中之间的过渡——就在初中之前。
Or, oh, it's between junior high and high school.
或者说哦，初中和高中之间。
I can't remember.
我不记得了。
Some transition, and the kids are at different developmental stages.
有些过渡，孩子们处于不同的发展阶段。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I feel like this is a big part of it, where let's say a kid is a little bit more emotional, a little more coddled at home, perhaps, I'm making a lot of assumptions here-
我觉得这是其中很重要的一部分，假设一个孩子在家里更加情绪化，更加溺爱，也许，我在这里做了很多假设——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and cries in front of a group of boys when you're in the seventh or eighth grade.
and cries in front of a group of boys when you're in the seventh or eighth grade.
Some of those boys are, because of their stage of maturation, they're not really little kids anymore.
其中一些男孩，由于他们的成熟阶段，他们不再是真正的小孩子了。
They're like, "Dude, what are you doing?" And then you've mixed all those kids together, and because of the way that schools and social dynamics are, that can stay with a kid for a long time.
他们就像，“伙计，你在做什么？”然后你把所有这些孩子混在一起，由于学校和社会动态的方式，这可以和孩子在一起很长一段时间。
Like having an emotional expression, that can stick with you for like-
Like having an emotional expression, that can stick with you for like-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Of course
当然
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
two, three years of school, right?
学了两年、三年吧？
So I feel like some of this stuff comes about that way, which is very different than, just taking as like a hypothetical scenario, an adult male in the business place.
所以我觉得有些事情是这样发生的，这与假设的场景、商业场所的成年男性非常不同。
Maybe he's new at-- where things tend to equalize a bit in terms of maturational stage.
也许他是新人——在成熟阶段，事情往往会趋于平衡。
And so these are two different things.
所以这是两件不同的事情。
Boys crying versus young men crying versus quote unquote grown men cry.
男孩哭泣与年轻人哭泣与成年男人哭泣。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Again, this is all nurture.
再说一次，这都是后天培养的。
So if you go to schools that do our work, I just interviewed a bunch of teenage boys, actually, it'd blow your mind.
So if you go to schools that do our work, I just interviewed a bunch of teenage boys, actually, it'd blow your mind.
They have a whole different perception of emotion.
They have a whole different perception of emotion.
I ask them these questions about men and boys, and their responses are like, "Huh?
I ask them these questions about men and boys, and their responses are like, "Huh?
What's wrong with crying?
哭有什么不好？
If you feel like crying, you cry." Like, "Are you sure?" Even I'm-
如果你想哭，那就哭吧。”就像，“你确定吗？”就连我也是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No ridicule.
没有嘲笑。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
No ridicule.
没有嘲笑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I said, "Well, what if you get into a fight?
我说：“那如果你们吵架了怎么办？
Can you talk to the kid about what happened and tell them how you felt when they left you out?" And they're like, "Of course.
你能和孩子谈谈发生的事情并告诉他们当他们把你留在外面时你的感受吗？”他们就像，“当然。
That's how we grew up." But they grew up in a school that took emotion seriously.
我们就是这样长大的。” But they grew up in a school that took emotion seriously.
They gave them the skills and the resources to do it.
They gave them the skills and the resources to do it.
It reminds me, actually, I'll never forget this, since we're on this topic of boys and men.
事实上，它提醒我，我永远不会忘记这一点，因为我们讨论的是男孩和男人的话题。
I was in the beginning of my career doing training in emotional regulation in London, outside of London, in a very kind of rough and tough neighborhood.
我的职业生涯刚刚开始，在伦敦以外的一个非常粗暴和艰难的社区接受情绪调节方面的培训。
And the headmistress, as they called it back then, of the school, she looked at me and she's like, "You know something, Marc?
And the headmistress, as they called it back then, of the school, she looked at me and she's like, "You know something, Marc?
This program's going to turn the boys into homosexuals." I'm like, "Okay, where'd that come from?" I'm thinking to myself, you need a lot more training than just emotional intelligence, but I'll put that aside for a minute.
这个计划将把男孩们变成同性恋。”我想，“好吧，那是从哪里来的？” I'm thinking to myself, you need a lot more training than just emotional intelligence, but I'll put that aside for a minute.
Anyhow, I said, "I'm here, so can we just go and do it?
不管怎样，我说：“我在这儿，我们可以去干吗？
Let me demonstrate it." Not a problem.
让我演示一下。”不是问题。
We go in, like a fishbowl.
我们进去，就像鱼缸一样。
Here I am, the teacher in the middle of the room.
我在这里，老师在房间的中间。
I have 25 teachers around me and 20 kids in the middle.
I have 25 teachers around me and 20 kids in the middle.
And I start sharing a story about my life, whatever it was.
And I start sharing a story about my life, whatever it was.
It was about probably feeling discouraged.
这可能是因为感到沮丧。
I think it was when I first got into martial arts, it was tough.
I think it was when I first got into martial arts, it was tough.
I was not a tough boy, and I was afraid of my shadow, and then I had all this bullying and abuse, and going to a karate studio was a big shock for me.
我不是一个坚强的男孩，我害怕自己的影子，然后我遭受了所有这些欺凌和虐待，去空手道工作室对我来说是一个很大的震惊。
I happened to have an amazing teacher who transformed my life and became a career of mine, martial arts.
I happened to have an amazing teacher who transformed my life and became a career of mine, martial arts.
Anyhow, I told a story about that, about how I failed my yellow belt, and I just hated myself, and not only was I bullied, but I couldn't even get a freaking yellow belt.
无论如何，我讲了一个关于这个的故事，关于我如何未能通过黄带，我只是讨厌自己，我不仅被欺负，而且我什至拿不到该死的黄带。
Discouraged, hopeless.
灰心丧气，无望。
And everybody's looking at me like, where's this going?
And everybody's looking at me like, where's this going?
The teachers.
老师们。
The kids were glued.
孩子们都被粘住了。
They loved hearing the story.
他们喜欢听这个故事。
And then I said, "I'm just curious, has anyone else ever felt the way I felt?" And I said, "Just raise your hand if you've had that kind of feeling." Every freaking kid in the classroom raised their hand.
然后我说：“我只是很好奇，有没有其他人有过和我一样的感受？”我说：“如果你有这种感觉，请举手。”教室里每个吓坏了的孩子都举起了手。
And of course, I look over at that headmistress and I'm like, "Let's talk later." Kids are dying to express their emotions, boys and girls.
And of course, I look over at that headmistress and I'm like, "Let's talk later."孩子们渴望表达自己的情感，无论男孩还是女孩。
We've just socialized it, and the socialization piece is really important because even the way fathers talk to their boy children is different.
We've just socialized it, and the socialization piece is really important because even the way fathers talk to their boy children is different.
It's the toughen up.
就是变强了
It's da-da-da.
是哒哒哒。
You use more feeling words with girls than with boys.
与男孩相比，你对女孩使用更多感情用语。
We're not born that way.
我们生来并非如此。
We are socialized into having these complicated relationships with certain emotions.
我们被社会化，形成了带有某些情绪的复杂关系。
But it's not something that can't be modified with good instruction.
但这并不是通过良好的指导就无法改变的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're saying this, I'm realizing I internalized so many things that skew my perspective on this.
你这么说，我意识到我内化了很多东西，这些东西歪曲了我对此的看法。
I guess I should say I'm relieved to hear that expression of emotions among boys is more accepted now.
我想我应该说，听到男孩之间的情感表达现在更被接受，我感到很欣慰。
I think that's-
我认为那是——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
The generation that's going through this, Roy, the kids who are growing up in places that are not taking emotion seriously are growing up with a more stereotypical way of viewing it It's got to be infused into your life.
正在经历这一切的一代人，罗伊，那些在不认真对待情感的地方长大的孩子们，正在以一种更刻板的方式看待情感，它必须融入到你的生活中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
You got to have these conversations.
你必须进行这些对话。
You got to be in situations where-- Like in our work, just to give you an example, we're really rigorous about teaching this stuff.
你必须处于这样的情况——就像在我们的工作中一样，举个例子，我们在教授这些东西方面非常严格。
This isn't just sort of like kumbaya sitting in a circle.
这不只是像 kumbaya 围成一圈那样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
This is like, "All right, everyone, we've got a problem here.
这就像，“好吧，大家，我们这里遇到了一个问题。
There's the gaga pit," which is this thing in schools, "there's a kid who nobody is allowing to participate.
有一个“嘎嘎坑”，“这就是学校里的事情，”没有人允许一个孩子参加。
That kid feels awful.
这孩子感觉太糟糕了
What's our obligation?
我们的义务是什么？
What are we supposed to do to handle that?
我们应该做什么来处理这个问题？
Imagine you're that kid.
想象一下你就是那个孩子。
Imagine you're the one that nobody wants to be part of the game.
想象一下，你是那个没有人愿意参与游戏的人。
Now we're going to get into groups, and we're going to think about, A, what are the feelings?
现在我们要分成小组，我们要思考，A，有什么感受？
B, what are the solutions?
B、解决办法是什么？
What do you do for yourself?
你为自己做什么？
What do you do for the other person?" And it's rigorous conversations around the techniques, and they got to role-play it, and then we ask questions about the role play.
你为别人做什么？”这是围绕技术的严格对话，他们必须进行角色扮演，然后我们提出有关角色扮演的问题。
It's like, "Well, what if it goes wrong?
就像，“好吧，如果出了问题怎么办？
What happens if you say this and they say, 'Go blank yourself'?
如果你这么说而他们说“你自己保持空白”会发生什么？
What do you do then?" And that's the kind of complex muscle building we're giving kids in terms of dealing with emotions.
那你怎么办？”这就是我们在处理情绪方面为孩子们提供的复杂的肌肉锻炼。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 for nearly 15 years now.
你们很多人都知道，我服用 AG1 已有近 15 年了。
I discovered it way back in 2012, long before I ever had a podcast, and I've been taking it every day since.
我早在 2012 年就发现了它，那时我还没有播客，从那时起我就每天都在听它。
The reason I started taking it, and the reason I still take it, is because AG1 is, to my knowledge, the highest quality and most comprehensive of the foundational nutritional supplements on the market.
我开始服用它的原因，以及我仍然服用它的原因，是因为据我所知，AG1是市场上质量最高、最全面的基础营养补充剂。
It combines vitamins, minerals, prebiotics, probiotics, and adaptogens into a single scoop that's easy to drink, and it tastes great.
它将维生素、矿物质、益生元、益生菌和适应原结合到一勺中，易于饮用，味道极佳。
It's designed to support things like gut health, immune health, and overall energy, and it does so by helping to fill any gaps you might have in your daily nutrition.
它旨在支持肠道健康、免疫健康和整体能量等，并通过帮助填补您日常营养中可能存在的任何缺口来实现这一目标。
Now, of course, everyone should strive to eat nutritious whole foods.
当然，现在每个人都应该努力吃有营养的天然食品。
I certainly do that every day.
我当然每天都这样做。
But I'm often asked, "If you could take just one supplement, what would that supplement be?" And my answer is always AG1, because it has just been oh so critical to supporting all aspects of my physical health, mental health, and performance.
但我经常被问到，“如果你只能服用一种补充剂，你会选择什么补充剂？”我的答案始终是 AG1，因为它对于支持我的身体健康、心理健康和表现的各个方面都非常重要。
I know this from my own experience with AG1, and I continually hear this from other people who use AG1 daily.
我从自己使用 AG1 的经验中了解到这一点，并且我不断从其他每天使用 AG1 的人那里听到这一点。
If you would like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 以获得特别优惠。
For a limited time, AG1 is giving away six free travel packs of AG1 and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your subscription.
限时订阅后，AG1 将赠送 6 个免费 AG1 旅行包和一瓶维生素 D3 K2。
Again, that's drinkag1, with the numeral 1, .com/huberman to get six free travel packs and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your subscription.
同样，这是 Drinkag1，输入数字 1，.com/huberman 订阅即可获得六个免费旅行包和一瓶维生素 D3 K2。
There is a hardwired bias towards rough-and-tumble play in males of all species, including ours.
所有物种的雄性，包括我们人类，都对打闹游戏有着天生的偏见。
I think what you're talking about a little bit is a capacity also for kind of rough-and-tumble verbal and emotional exchange.
我认为你所说的也是一种进行混乱的言语和情感交流的能力。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which is not necessarily like, "F you," and this and that.
这不一定是“F you”之类的。
But some of that can be in jest.
但其中一些可能是开玩笑。
Some of it can be really damaging.
其中一些可能确实具有破坏性。
There's something interesting that I learned a long time ago, even in academia.
我很久以前就学到了一些有趣的东西，即使是在学术界。
He's now dead, but there was a very famous neuroscientist I'll never forget.
他现在已经死了，但我永远不会忘记一位非常著名的神经科学家。
I went to my first McKnight meeting.
我第一次参加了麦克奈特会议。
I was so excited to be there, and he came over.
我很高兴能在那里，他也过来了。
He was a pretty large guy, and he grabbed me, and he goes, "So, where are you..." I was picking between laboratories, between this place and that place.
他是一个相当大的家伙，他抓住了我，然后他说，“那么，你在哪里......”我在实验室之间，在这个地方和那个地方之间进行选择。
He goes, "Where's it going to be?" And then he kind of gave me his advice.
他问道：“它会在哪里？”然后他给了我他的建议。
And that was a very comfortable exchange for me, because I grew up with a lot of physical interaction, usually guys not putting their arm around me and telling me, "So what's it going to be?" kind of thing.
这对我来说是一次非常舒服的交流，因为我是在很多身体互动的环境中长大的，通常人们不会用手臂搂住我并告诉我，“那会是什么？”之类的事情。
But oftentimes, if I interact with somebody that's kind of an old friend or something, they'll grab my shoulder just walking by.
但很多时候，如果我和老朋友之类的人交往，他们会在路过时抓住我的肩膀。
There's a lot of just physical interaction that just happens.
有很多物理交互刚刚发生。
It certainly doesn't feel weird or aversive.
It certainly doesn't feel weird or aversive.
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I could see if somebody, for instance, was not used to just a lot of physical interaction with other people, that that could feel like a lot.
例如，我可以看出，如果某人不习惯与其他人进行大量的身体互动，那可能会让人感觉很多。
And so I'm wondering nowadays, where are things with respect to sort of just the amount of physical interaction between kids?
所以我现在想知道，与孩子之间的身体互动有关的事情在哪里？
Are they just feeling and voicing their emotions, but they're at a physical distance?
他们只是感受和表达自己的情绪，但他们之间保持着物理距离吗？
Or are they seeing one another in handshakes and hugs, "What's up?" And or just friendly-
或者他们看到彼此握手和拥抱，“怎么了？”或者只是友好-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the kind of physical banter.
那种身体上的玩笑。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I think it's cultural.
我认为这是文化。
There's a lot going on there in terms of the type of school and where it is in the United States or in the world.
就学校类型以及学校在美国或世界的位置而言，发生了很多事情。
Touch is a cultural thing.
触摸是一种文化。
But I think what I want to say about what you said is that rough and tumble is fine.
但我想，对于你所说的，我想说的是，乱来也好。
Of course, rough and tumble.
当然，也有坎坷。
But when it becomes a power over, that's when it becomes a problem.
但当它成为一种权力时，那就成为一个问题。
When you have no concern for the emotional life of the other.
当你不关心对方的情感生活时。
This is where-
这就是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because that's bullying.
因为那是欺凌。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
The dialogue that sort of establishes hierarchy, I guess, if I'm really blunt about it, I just feel like that just happened naturally in my friend group when I was a kid.
我想，这种建立等级制度的对话，如果我真的很直率的话，我只是觉得这在我小时候在我的朋友圈子里自然发生。
There were some kids who were more developed and more athletic or better at this or better at that, and we just kind of all fell into place.
有些孩子更发达，更有运动能力，或者在这方面做得更好，在那方面做得更好，我们就都适应了。
It wasn't necessarily about being at the apex or being at the bottom.
这不一定是处于顶端或底部。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Or the intention to harm.
或者说有伤害的意图。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
We sort of formed a team-
We sort of formed a team-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where you understood that, yeah, this kid was fast and this one was strong and this one was clever and this one was creative and actually, there was a goofy kid on our street who was always the comedian.
你会明白，是的，这个孩子速度很快，这个孩子很强壮，这个孩子很聪明，这个孩子很有创意，实际上，我们街上有一个傻乎乎的孩子，他总是喜剧演员。
I think later he actually tried to become a comedian or became a comedian.
I think later he actually tried to become a comedian or became a comedian.
And everyone just kind of was like, "All right." You didn't expect him to be like the other kid, and you didn't expect yourself to kind of check off all boxes.
每个人都说，“好吧。” You didn't expect him to be like the other kid, and you didn't expect yourself to kind of check off all boxes.
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I wonder the extent to which young males in particular nowadays feel the need to check off all the boxes of what it is to be a guy.
I wonder the extent to which young males in particular nowadays feel the need to check off all the boxes of what it is to be a guy.
Play a sport, be good in school, whatever.
参加体育运动，在学校表现出色，等等。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Well, that's, again, the developmental thing, and I think what happens is that, and you watch kids play in kindergarten, they're not thinking about this kind of stuff.
嗯，这又是发展的问题，我认为发生的事情是，当你看着孩子们在幼儿园玩耍时，他们不会考虑这类事情。
Although it's sinking in or it's seeping in.
尽管它正在下沉或者正在渗透。
What's the word?
词是什么？
I was in a school recently And a boy raised his hand that he was in the blue quadrant of our mood meter, and he was feeling down or sad.
I was in a school recently And a boy raised his hand that he was in the blue quadrant of our mood meter, and he was feeling down or sad.
And I said, "Do you need anything right now?" And he said, "No." And I got taken by surprise, and I said, "You sure?
And I said, "Do you need anything right now?"他说：“不。”我吃了一惊，我说：“你确定吗？
We can talk about it." He's like, "I don't want to bother you, sir." And that was an eye-opener for me, that already his emotions were a nuisance.
我们可以谈谈。” He's like, "I don't want to bother you, sir." And that was an eye-opener for me, that already his emotions were a nuisance.
And that's what I want to make sure that we address.
And that's what I want to make sure that we address.
No one's emotion should be a burden.
No one's emotion should be a burden.
A kid should be able to talk about it and deal with it.
A kid should be able to talk about it and deal with it.
We want that kid to be a good learner.
We want that kid to be a good learner.
We want that kid to be a good friend.
We want that kid to be a good friend.
And if he's already suppressing, denying, ignoring in kindergarten, it's not going to be a pretty ride.
And if he's already suppressing, denying, ignoring in kindergarten, it's not going to be a pretty ride.
And those things change developmentally.
这些事情会随着发展而改变。
Kids are much more comfortable talking to each other about their feelings in elementary school and middle school.
Kids are much more comfortable talking to each other about their feelings in elementary school and middle school.
It starts getting, I've got to look around, and again, with the homophobia piece, and in high school, you see less and less touching, or the kind of friendship kind of stuff that you might have seen early on.
它开始变得越来越少，我必须环顾四周，再一次，在恐同症的作品中，在高中，你看到越来越少的感动，或者你可能很早就看到的那种友谊之类的东西。
And that goes back to the things that we were kind of chatting about, toxic masculinity, this manosphere.
And that goes back to the things that we were kind of chatting about, toxic masculinity, this manosphere.
And again, my hope is that we rethink child development.
再次，我希望我们重新思考儿童的发展。
We've spent so much time thinking about some of the unnecessary things.
We've spent so much time thinking about some of the unnecessary things.
Reading and writing and arithmetic obviously are important, but if you don't recognize that how we feel and how we deal with our feelings is going to drive the quality of your relationships, your well-being, your ability to deal with life's ups and downs and the harsh feedback you're going to get in life, and ultimately, having your dreams come true.
阅读、写作和算术显然很重要，但如果你没有认识到我们的感受以及我们处理感受的方式将提高你的人际关系质量、你的幸福感、你处理生活起起落落的能力以及你将在生活中得到的严厉反馈，并最终让你的梦想成真。
It's interesting, as someone who works at a university where everyone has perfect SAT scores, everyone has grade point averages that are better than mine were.
有趣的是，作为一个在大学工作的人，每个人都有完美的 SAT 成绩，每个人的平均绩点都比我的好。
Everyone plays an instrument I never heard of before.
每个人都演奏一种我以前从未听说过的乐器。
Everyone has done everything to get into this place.
Everyone has done everything to get into this place.
And so I have 700, 800 students right there, and I look at them all, and I'm like, "Guess what?
And so I have 700, 800 students right there, and I look at them all, and I'm like, "Guess what?
Your SAT scores have no predictive validity." None.
Your SAT scores have no predictive validity."没有任何。
You can't remember its range restriction.
You can't remember its range restriction.
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
It's like all basketball players are tall.
It's like all basketball players are tall.
Height is not going to make or break your basketball performance.
Height is not going to make or break your basketball performance.
Same thing applies in a room filled with people with high academic performance.
Same thing applies in a room filled with people with high academic performance.
And then, all right, well, what is the predictor?
然后，好吧，预测因子是什么？
Well, obviously, it's going to be something else.
嗯，显然，这会是另外的事情。
And then we start thinking about, well, what are the attributes that employers are looking for?
然后我们开始思考，雇主正在寻找哪些特质？
Right now, it's not technical skills as much as it used to be.
Right now, it's not technical skills as much as it used to be.
Right now, it's like, can this person take feedback well?
现在，这个人能很好地接受反馈吗？
Can this person lead a team, and people will want to be around that person?
这个人能否领导一个团队，并且人们愿意和他在一起？
I found in my research, for example, that managers and leaders who are good co-regulators, that, for example, during the pandemic, I did this longitudinal study, and I found that in schools in particular, where I do a lot of work, that when a teacher perceived their leader as both self-regulated and who was good at co-regulating.
例如，我在研究中发现，管理者和领导者是良好的共同监管者，例如，在大流行期间，我做了这项纵向研究，我发现，特别是在学校，我做了很多工作，当老师认为他们的领导者既自我监管又善于共同监管时。
So what that means is that I'm looking at you right now and thinking, "Okay, it feels like the world's coming to an end.
所以这意味着我现在看着你并想，“好吧，感觉就像世界末日即将到来。
Are you going to fall apart, or are you going to make it?" That's number one.
你会崩溃，还是会成功？”这是第一。
Number two is, are you going to be there for me?
Number two is, are you going to be there for me?
Are you going to be able to support me and deal with the cast that I've got to deal with?
你能支持我并处理我必须处理的演员吗？
And what we found in our research is that highly predictive of the culture of a school, highly predictive of burnout, highly predictive of job satisfaction.
我们在研究中发现，它高度预测学校文化、高度预测倦怠、高度预测工作满意度。
Frustration levels were 40% lower in schools where there were leaders with these skills.
在有具备这些技能的领导者的学校中，挫败感水平降低了 40%。
That's what people are looking for these days, more so than anything else, more so than beforehand.
这就是人们现在所寻求的，比其他任何事情都更重要，比以前更重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I feel like the word that comes to mind is calibration.
我觉得想到的词是校准。
And in anticipation of today's discussion-
And in anticipation of today's discussion-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I was speaking to a friend, and I said, "Where are you at with men expressing emotions?" And she said, "Well, I've seen you cry." And I was like, "Yeah." She said, "And it can be beautiful." You hear that, right?
我和一个朋友说话时，我说：“你对男人表达情感的态度如何？”她说：“好吧，我看到你哭了。”我当时想，“是的。” She said, "And it can be beautiful."你听到了，对吧？
It can be beautiful.
它可以很美丽。
And I said, "But when is a man expressing emotion a problem for you?" Assuming it's not outward anger or abuse.
我说：“但是男人表达情感什么时候对你来说是个问题呢？” Assuming it's not outward anger or abuse.
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
His sadness was the example I gave.
His sadness was the example I gave.
And she said, "If he gets very sad about things that happen a lot, it makes it hard to imagine how he would hold it together if really big stuff happened."
她说，“如果他对经常发生的事情感到非常难过，很难想象如果真的发生了大事，他将如何保持冷静。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so it's exactly what you described in the workplace, right?
所以这正是你在工作场所所描述的，对吗？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This notion of calibration.
This notion of calibration.
So, let's say I'm okay with people expressing their emotion, crying when they're sad, et cetera.
所以，假设我可以接受人们表达自己的情感，悲伤时哭泣等等。
But if that's happening a lot under everyday conditions, I could imagine, let's say you're in a work or a relationship with this person, and you think, "Well, goodness, people die, right?" I'm 50 now.
但如果这种情况在日常生活中经常发生，我可以想象，假设你正在工作或与这个人建立关系，你会想，“好吧，天啊，人都会死，对吗？”我现在50岁了。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
People die as you get older.
随着年龄的增长，人们会死去。
More and more people die.
越来越多的人死去。
That's just kind of the way it works.
这就是它的工作方式。
What's going to happen then?
那会发生什么？
I think there's this underlying question, which is, are you going to be available for all the other things we depend on each other for?
我认为有一个潜在的问题，那就是，你是否愿意承担我们彼此依赖的所有其他事情？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this could be romantic relationship.
这可能是浪漫的关系。
It could be in the workplace.
它可能是在工作场所。
So I do wonder whether or not people are trying to work out what people are calibrated to.
所以我确实想知道人们是否正在尝试弄清楚人们的适应能力。
Like trying to understand somebody's, I don't want to say emotional set point, but when they're able to just pack it down and deal with it on their own later, or whether it really needs to become the focus.
就像试图理解某人的情绪一样，我不想说情绪设定点，而是当他们能够将其打包并稍后自己处理时，或者它是否真的需要成为焦点。
To just quickly layer in another example, I have a friend who runs a big scientific laboratory.
快速举另一个例子，我有一个朋友经营着一个大型科学实验室。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Their laboratory gathered together and did a presentation for ...
他们的实验室聚集在一起并做了一次演示......
this lab director, and had created a statistical bubble map of their experience of being in the lab.
这位实验室主任，并创建了他们在实验室的经历的统计气泡图。
And there was a giant bubble in the middle that just said stress.
中间有一个巨大的气泡，上面写着压力。
And they invited someone from HR, and the whole idea here was to let the boss know that they were really stressed out.
他们邀请了人力资源部的人，整个想法就是让老板知道他们真的压力很大。
And I said, "Let me guess.
我说：“让我猜猜。
You were probably thinking..." He came up in a very, very hard branch of science.
你可能在想……”他进入了一个非常非常困难的科学领域。
And I said, "Let me guess, you're probably thinking, 'What happened to science?'" He said, "For a little while, and then I figured, well, this is the next generation.
我说，“让我猜猜，你可能在想，‘科学发生了什么？’”他说，“有一段时间，然后我想，好吧，这就是下一代。
I have to work with this." So they were calibrated to different set points.
我必须处理这个问题。”因此，它们被校准到不同的设定点。
And I could imagine that's hard across generations, but even within generation, that's got to be really, really tricky.
我可以想象这对于几代人来说是很困难的，但即使在一代人之内，这也一定非常非常棘手。
So you're all about measurement-
所以你只关心测量——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
creating actionable tools.
创建可操作的工具。
Is there a language around this?
有与此相关的语言吗？
Is there a way that we can, yes, learn to process and deal with our emotions, express our emotions in a more healthy way, also understanding of other people's emotion calibration point?
有没有一种方法可以让我们学会处理和处理自己的情绪，以更健康的方式表达自己的情绪，并了解别人的情绪校准点？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
A couple of things.
有几件事。
One is that going back to the kind of partner leader position is, I think the confusion that people have, again, going back to vulnerability and emotion dysregulation, is that me being vulnerable or me sharing that I'm anxious or overwhelmed or afraid means that I'm weak.
一是回到合伙人领导者的位置，我认为人们的困惑再次回到脆弱性和情绪失调，那就是我很脆弱，或者我分享我的焦虑、不知所措或害怕，这意味着我很软弱。
And I think what leaders need to do is recognize, like during the pandemic, I'll never forget this, like, wait, the university shut down.
我认为领导者需要做的是认识到，就像在大流行期间一样，我永远不会忘记这一点，比如，等等，大学关闭了。
Everything was freaking out.
一切都吓坏了。
I knew my team was freaked out.
我知道我的团队吓坏了。
They were stressed out about their jobs.
他们的工作压力很大。
They were dealing with being parents and also being employees and working from home and all that stuff.
他们要面对成为父母、成为雇员、在家工作等等问题。
Here I was, the head of the emotional intelligence lab and like, "How you doing, Mark?" And I'm like, "Great.
我在这里，情商实验室的负责人，就像，“你好吗，马克？”我想，“太棒了。
Everything's fine." And meanwhile, I'm like, "I hate my life and I hate everybody around me." I had my mother-in-law, you know that story.
一切都很好。”与此同时，我想，“我讨厌我的生活，我讨厌我周围的每个人。”我有我的岳母，你知道这个故事。
She was stuck with me.
她被我困住了。
And then I realized one day, I'm being a terrible role model.
And then I realized one day, I'm being a terrible role model.
I'm not being authentic, and I'm not demonstrating the skill.
I'm not being authentic, and I'm not demonstrating the skill.
So I decided to be really honest and say, "I'm going to be frank.
所以我决定非常诚实地说：“我要坦白地说。
It's tough right now, but here's what I'm doing.
现在很困难，但这就是我正在做的事情。
I'm going for that walk every day at 5:00.
我每天 5:00 都会去散步。
I can't go to my hot yoga class, but guess what?
我不能去参加热瑜伽课，但你猜怎么着？
I found new workouts online that I'm doing, and I'm doing X, Y, and Z." So the point is that I think vulnerability that's sharing and spewing out all the fears that you have is not helpful when it's not accompanied by the strategy.
我在网上找到了我正在做的新锻炼项目，我正在做 X、Y 和 Z。”所以重点是，我认为，如果没有相应的策略，分享和吐露所有恐惧的脆弱性是没有帮助的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
And that's the key, is that I'm feeling this way, but here's what I'm doing about it.
And that's the key, is that I'm feeling this way, but here's what I'm doing about it.
That's what a role model is, and that's what a parent needs to do.
That's what a role model is, and that's what a parent needs to do.
The parent has to come home and say, imagine this, you're a dad, and you're trying to be a role model for your kid.
The parent has to come home and say, imagine this, you're a dad, and you're trying to be a role model for your kid.
And here's my dad.
这是我爸爸。
My dad would have a hard day at work.
我爸爸会辛苦工作一天。
"Daddy, let's play." "Son, leave me alone." Done.
“爸爸，我们来玩吧。” “儿子，放开我吧。”完毕。
That was the end of it.
事情就这样结束了。
As opposed to, dad comes home.
相反，爸爸回家了。
"Daddy, let's play." "Son, you have to realize, I have to just tell you something.
“爸爸，我们来玩吧。” "Son, you have to realize, I have to just tell you something.
I just had a really rough day at work.
我刚刚工作了非常艰难的一天。
I actually got into a fight with a colleague of mine, didn't go well, and I said something that I really feel bad about.
我居然和一个同事吵架了，吵得很不顺利，而且还说了一些让我很难受的话。
And so Daddy just needs a little bit of time to just process that, to just think about what I can say tomorrow to kind of help my relationship.
And so Daddy just needs a little bit of time to just process that, to just think about what I can say tomorrow to kind of help my relationship.
And if you don't mind, I need that time right now.
And if you don't mind, I need that time right now.
I love you, and we'll play later, but right now I'm just not in the right space for it.
I love you, and we'll play later, but right now I'm just not in the right space for it.
Okay, son?" "Okay, Dad." All right, let's stop there.
好吧，儿子？” “好的，爸爸。”好吧，我们就到此为止吧。
What did I just teach my son or daughter about feelings?
What did I just teach my son or daughter about feelings?
All right.
好的。
I'm a dude.
我是个家伙。
I'm a dad who has feelings.
我是一个有感情的爸爸。
I am someone who makes mistakes.
我是一个会犯错误的人。
I say things that I regret.
我说了一些让我后悔的话。
I reflect on the things that I make mistakes about.
I reflect on the things that I make mistakes about.
I problem solve about the things that I make mistakes about.
I problem solve about the things that I make mistakes about.
I need time to recoup my energy, and then I can come back and be with you.
I need time to recoup my energy, and then I can come back and be with you.
How much time did that take?
那花了多少时间？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Seconds.
秒。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
But how many of us are around people that can process emotion that way, that have the capacity to say, "I'm in a dark place, things didn't go well.
但我们身边有多少人能够以这种方式处理情绪，有能力说：“我处在一个黑暗的地方，事情进展不顺利。
I made a mistake.
我犯了一个错误。
I feel bad about it.
我对此感觉很糟糕。
I need to strategize, and then we'll come back and be together." What happens to most of us, we're activated, like I'm pissed off at the person at work, and I project it on everybody else that's in my next situation.
I need to strategize, and then we'll come back and be together."我们大多数人都会发生什么事，我们会被激活，就像我对工作中的人很生气，然后我把它投射到处于我下一种情况的其他人身上。
And the power of emotional self-awareness, going back to what we started with, and the power of emotion regulation, is that I notice that there's a shift.
情绪自我意识的力量，回到我们开始的地方，以及情绪调节的力量，是我注意到有一种转变。
I notice that I'm feeling this anger, this frustration.
I notice that I'm feeling this anger, this frustration.
I'm about to go into a new environment with my family, and I know, because I'm emotionally intelligent, that it's not going to be pretty if I don't process that emotion before I move into the next situation.
我即将和家人一起进入一个新的环境，而且我知道，因为我情商高，如果我在进入下一种情况之前不处理好这种情绪，事情就不会那么美好。
So what I'm going to do is I'm going to take a breath.
So what I'm going to do is I'm going to take a breath.
I'm going to take what I call a meta moment.
我将采取我所说的“元时刻”。
I'm going to pause.
我要暂停一下。
I'm going to take a breath.
我要喘口气了。
I'm going to think about the best version of Mark, the father I want to be, the husband I want to be, and then I'm going to open the door and arrive through that lens.
我会思考马克的最佳版本，我想成为的父亲，我想成为的丈夫，然后我会打开门，通过那个镜头到达。
That's what this work is about.
这就是这项工作的目的。
It's what people need to learn.
这是人们需要学习的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I'm fascinated by time perception, and I feel like the human brain is so incredible at being in the moment and also getting ahead and thinking behind, and what you're really talking about is projecting into the future in a healthy way, not future tripping, as they call it, but in a healthy way.
我对时间感知很着迷，我觉得人类的大脑在当下、超前和落后思考方面是如此不可思议，你真正谈论的是以一种健康的方式投射到未来，而不是他们所说的未来绊脚石，而是以一种健康的方式。
And I think that, broadly speaking, I'm almost embarrassed to say this as a neuroscientist, but the more limbic-
我认为，从广义上讲，作为一名神经科学家，我几乎不好意思这么说，但更多的是边缘系统——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
we are, so to speak.
可以这么说，我们是。
I realize that's not really a thing, but the more limbic we are, the more in the moment we tend to be.
我意识到这并不是什么真正的事情，但我们越是边缘化，我们就越倾向于活在当下。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's harder to get that version of ourself.
而要获得那个版本的我们自己就更难了。
But when we're relaxed, it's very easy to be like, "Well, I can remember this time," or, "I'm going to project into the future." So to some extent, healthy recognition of one's emotions, it seems, healthy expression of one's emotions is the ability to With feel, but also split off from the presence enough to get perspective.
但当我们放松时，很容易会说，“好吧，我记得这一次”，或者“我要展望未来”。所以在某种程度上，健康地认识一个人的情绪，似乎，健康地表达一个人的情绪是一种能够感受的能力，但也能从存在中分离出来，获得足够的视角。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The time perspective.
时间视角。
It's all a shift in the time domain.
这都是时域的转变。
You're not like, "I'm going to go to this island in the Caribbean for a moment," although that might be a useful tactic.
你不会说，“我要去加勒比海的这个岛屿呆一会儿”，尽管这可能是一个有用的策略。
But that ability to tolerate stress and segment a piece of one's mind and emotions and go, "Okay, that's all happening, and I'm going to get right over here," that is a skill.
但承受压力、分割自己的思想和情绪的能力，然后说“好吧，这一切都发生了，我马上就到这里”，这是一种技能。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
So the way I like to think about it is that we have to move from automatic, habitual, unhelpful reactions to deliberate, conscious, helpful responses.
所以我喜欢思考这个问题的方式是，我们必须从自动的、习惯性的、无益的反应转变为深思熟虑的、有意识的、有益的反应。
Because we become more automatic when we're flooded with our emotions.
因为当我们被情绪淹没时，我们会变得更加自动化。
We rely more on habits, and usually bad habits.
我们更多地依赖习惯，而且通常是坏习惯。
And so to build that space between the stimulus and response, the question always people say, "What do you do with that space?
因此，为了在刺激和反应之间建立这个空间，人们总是会问：“你用这个空间做什么？
How long is the space?" Some people say, "I don't need a meta moment," which is one of our tools, "I need a mega moment." And maybe you do.
空间有多长？”有些人说，“我不需要元时刻”，这是我们的工具之一，“我需要一个超级时刻”。也许你会的。
Maybe you need to take three loops around the house before you walk into the door to get your kind of parasympathetic nervous system where it needs to be.
也许你需要在进门之前绕房子转三圈，以使你的副交感神经系统发挥作用。
That is the key to emotion regulation right there.
这就是情绪调节的关键。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We had Richie Davidson on the podcast, and he talked about this myth about meditation, that it's supposed to clear the mind and make you relax, and he said it's actually really about stress tolerance.
我们的播客中有里奇·戴维森（Richie Davidson），他谈到了有关冥想的神话，即冥想可以理清思绪，让你放松，他说这实际上与压力承受能力有关。
You're supposed to sit there and resist the temptation to get up and move.
你应该坐在那里，抵制站起来走动的诱惑。
It's really stress inoculation, which I think is a really beautiful way of thinking about, and different way of thinking about meditation.
这确实是压力接种，我认为这是一种非常美丽的思考方式，也是思考冥想的不同方式。
So do you recommend that people meditate in order to become better emotion regulators?
那么你是否建议人们通过冥想来成为更好的情绪调节者？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
100%.
100%。
Especially because if you can't be still, it's going to be hard to access the good strategies.
尤其是因为如果你不能保持静止，就很难获得好的策略。
It's a necessary but insufficient strategy.
这是必要但不充分的策略。
I know that we're obsessed in our world right now with breathing and mindfulness, and it's great, but it's not enough.
我知道我们现在的世界沉迷于呼吸和正念，这很好，但这还不够。
At the end, I'm going to have to have the difficult conversation and regulate during that conversation.
最后，我将不得不进行艰难的对话并在对话期间进行调节。
I can't be in my room by myself meditating.
我不能独自在房间里冥想。
I always joke with my-- I open my book with that story of my mother-in-law, and I would take a breath it's even clear why you have to get the hell out of my house, right?
我总是和我开玩笑——我打开我的书，里面写着我婆婆的故事，我会吸一口气，甚至很清楚为什么你必须离开我的房子，对吧？
So the breath may help you deactivate, but it doesn't necessarily shift your perspective.
因此，呼吸可能会帮助你放松，但不一定会改变你的观点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
That's the mindfulness work.
这就是正念工作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
And I want to jump in now because I think even the taking the moment to recognize you need to take this meta moment is a mindset piece.
我现在想介入，因为我认为即使是花点时间认识到你需要抓住这个元时刻也是一种心态。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
It's saying, emotion regulation is important.
可见，情绪调节很重要。
I'll be a better version of myself if I don't walk into my house in this angry state and project it onto everybody else.
如果我不以这种愤怒的状态走进我的房子并将其投射到其他人身上，我将成为一个更好的自己。
But we've only gone through one of eight domains that I think are important.
但我们只经历了我认为重要的八个领域之一。
The next is, you got to know what you're feeling, because the feeling, as I said in my formula earlier, is going to drive the strategy selection.
接下来，你必须知道自己的感受，因为正如我之前在公式中所说，这种感觉将推动策略选择。
So that labeling piece is really important, and I find that people's vocabularies is just awful.
所以这个标签非常重要，而且我发现人们的词汇量很糟糕。
People, "I'm fine, I'm okay, I'm upset." I don't think we did this last time, but if I were to push you, anxiety versus fear versus pressure-
人们，“我很好，我很好，我很沮丧。”我不认为我们上次这样做过，但如果我要推动你，焦虑与恐惧与压力——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh
哦
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
...
...
versus stress.
与压力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've thought about these before, so, but it ends up being hair-splitting, and then I go into scientific operational definitions.
我以前也考虑过这些，所以，但最终结果是吹毛求疵，然后我进入了科学的操作定义。
So yeah, anxiety, kind of a generalized state of too much sympathetic arousal.
所以，是的，焦虑，一种交感神经过度兴奋的普遍状态。
Stress is, usually I'd add to that, one or several things that I can pinpoint as-
压力，通常我会补充一点，我可以指出的一件事或几件事——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
kind of a source of that elevated level of arousal.
这是提高兴奋水平的一个来源。
Panic would be if it-
恐慌会是如果——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you've gotten so far outside the time domain perspective that the physiology overtakes and overwhelms.
你已经远远超出了时域的视角，以至于生理学超越并压倒了你。
I get into my scientist definition mode.
我进入科学家定义模式。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And I think that's interesting because a lot of people, well, most people, by the way, say it's all the same shit.
我认为这很有趣，因为很多人，嗯，大多数人，顺便说一句，都说这都是同样的狗屎。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
That it's all one big-
这一切都是一件大事——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Fair.
公平。
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
...
...
you're technical.
你是技术性的。
You're like, "Well, this is cortisol, and this is epinephrine, and this is this." And that's all good too.
你会说，“嗯，这是皮质醇，这是肾上腺素，这是这个。”这也很好。
But in the end, what you're regulating oftentimes is underneath the emotion.
但最终，你经常调节的是情绪之下的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
And so anxiety, uncertainty around the future, right?
所以对未来感到焦虑和不确定，对吗？
I get anxious when I can't predict.
当我无法预测时我会感到焦虑。
That's really what deep anxiety is.
这确实是深度焦虑。
I want everything to be exactly the way I want it to be, and I can't control that, so ugh.
我希望一切都按照我想要的方式进行，但我无法控制，所以呃。
Stress is having too many demands and not enough resources.
压力是有太多的需求而没有足够的资源。
Pressure, something at stake is dependent upon your behavior.
压力、危急关头取决于你的行为。
Fear is immediate danger.
恐惧是直接的危险。
So when I give you those kind of what we call in psychology the core relational themes, the appraisals that are part of those emotions, does it make you see how your strategy choice might be different?
因此，当我向您提供我们在心理学中所说的核心关系主题以及属于这些情绪一部分的评估时，它是否会让您看到您的策略选择可能有何不同？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, definitely.
是的，绝对是。
And speaking of, I doubt it's just two bins, but I've heard once that some people need to learn to externalize or to talk about their feelings more, other people probably less.
说到这里，我怀疑这只是两个垃圾箱，但我曾经听说过，有些人需要学会更多地外化或谈论他们的感受，而其他人可能需要更少。
I've heard this.
我听说过这个。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
For sure.
一定。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In fact, I'm friends with a couple, and one of them says, she calls herself an external processor.
事实上，我有一对夫妇的朋友，其中一个人说，她称自己为外部处理器。
So if something's bothering her, she has to externally process it.
因此，如果有什么事情困扰着她，她就必须从外部处理它。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And her wife is an internal processor.
而她的妻子则是一名内部处理器。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so this obviously, they've worked this out, and it's pretty cool to see how they do it.
很明显，他们已经解决了这个问题，看到他们是如何做到的真是太酷了。
But I was like, is that really a thing, external processor, internal processor?
但我想，这真的是一个东西吗，外部处理器，内部处理器？
And then, of course, my gender biases show up.
然后，当然，我的性别偏见就出现了。
I go, well, you're two women, so maybe that language is used.
我说，好吧，你们是两个女人，所以也许会使用这种语言。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But in heterosexual relationships, it's different.
但在异性关系中，情况就不同了。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we laughed about it, and they explained, no-
我们对此大笑，他们解释说，不-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because actually one of them turns out to be a therapist.
因为实际上其中一个人是一名治疗师。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it's like, no. She has many male, female couple clients.
所以这就像是，不。她有很多男性、女性情侣客户。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So she's a couples therapist.
所以她是一名夫妻治疗师。
So I got flipped on my back with that one.
所以我被那个东西翻转了。
The thing that I find that I keep projecting into everything I'm hearing-
我发现我不断地投射到我所听到的一切中——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and I want to put the little asterisk here and say that The reason I share these things that are happening inside is I like to think they're perhaps a proxy for what some people are thinking-
我想在这里放一个小星号，并说我分享这些内部发生的事情的原因是我认为它们可能代表了一些人的想法-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or not.
或不。
But is that we really, at least in the United States, we really are not a culture that's clearly defined its terms, let alone its ways of being around emotions.
但我们真的，至少在美国，我们确实不是一种明确定义其术语的文化，更不用说其围绕情感的方式了。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is not like my dad growing up in Argentina in a certain era where, sure, there was a range, but the culture was fairly clearly defined.
这不像我父亲在阿根廷长大的某个时代，当然，有一个范围，但文化有相当清晰的定义。
Here we've got it all.
在这里，我们已经得到了一切。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
They do.
他们确实这么做了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Men expressing anger.
男人表达愤怒。
Some people call that passionate, depending on what it's about.
有些人称之为热情，这取决于它的内容。
Other people call that scary and dysregulated.
其他人称之为可怕和失调。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
It goes back to your relationship with anger.
这可以追溯到你们与愤怒的关系。
And so, we construct these emotions in our brains based on our experiences.
因此，我们根据我们的经历在大脑中构建这些情绪。
So I grew up with a dad who had pressed lips and red face and looked like he was going to take his belt off and whack me.
所以我和一个父亲一起长大，他嘴唇紧闭，脸色通红，看起来就像是要解下腰带来打我。
And so my perception of anger is probably different than your perception based on our upbringing.
因此，根据我们的成长经历，我对愤怒的看法可能与你的看法不同。
We have to acknowledge that.
我们必须承认这一点。
Now, I could be overreacting to anger, which is not going to be helpful in my life, so I've got to learn to realize not everybody's like your dad.
现在，我可能对愤怒反应过度，这对我的生活没有帮助，所以我必须学会认识到并不是每个人都像你爸爸一样。
Some people can be angry and not aggressive.
有些人可能会生气，但不会具有攻击性。
But that's the emotional intelligence journey of learning.
但这就是情商的学习之旅。
If I had no cultivating of skills, I would just assume that's anger.
如果我没有修行，我只会认为那是愤怒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
And that's not anger.
那不是愤怒。
That's one way of expressing anger that I learned.
这是我学到的表达愤怒的一种方式。
And I think people get caught up in that.
我认为人们会陷入其中。
They get attached to what they learned early in life and don't realize is that there's another way.
他们执着于早年学到的东西，却没有意识到还有另一种方法。
It's kind of why people oftentimes get stuck with trauma, because they are fixated on that experience that they had, and they haven't learned how to reframe or haven't learned how to compartmentalize that particular experience in their lives.
这就是为什么人们经常陷入创伤的原因，因为他们专注于自己的经历，而他们没有学会如何重新构建或没有学会如何划分生活中的特定经历。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, LMNT.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 LMNT。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的比例都正确，但不含糖。
Proper hydration is critical for brain and body function.
适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体功能至关重要。
Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish your cognitive and physical performance.
即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低您的认知和身体表现。
It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.
获得充足的电解质也很重要。
The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are vital for the functioning of all cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.
电解质（钠、镁和钾）对于体内所有细胞（尤其是神经元或神经细胞）的功能至关重要。
Drinking LMNT makes it very easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.
饮用 LMNT 可以轻松确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。
My days tend to start really fast, meaning I have to jump right into work or right into exercise.
我的日子往往开始得很快，这意味着我必须立即投入工作或立即锻炼。
So to make sure that I'm hydrated and I have sufficient electrolytes, when I first wake up in the morning, I drink 16 to 32 ounces of water with an LMNT packet dissolved in it.
因此，为了确保我有足够的水分和足够的电解质，当我早上第一次醒来时，我会喝 16 至 32 盎司的水，其中溶解有 LMNT 包。
I also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes.
我还会在进行任何体育锻炼时饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT，尤其是在炎热的日子里，当我大量出汗并失去水和电解质时。
LMNT has a bunch of great-tasting flavors.
LMNT 有很多美味的口味。
In fact, I love them all.
事实上，我爱他们所有人。
I love the watermelon, the raspberry, the citrus, and I really love the lemonade flavor.
我喜欢西瓜、覆盆子、柑橘，而且我真的很喜欢柠檬水的味道。
So if you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with any purchase.
因此，如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman，购买任意商品即可领取免费的 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。
So thus far, we've highlighted at least one thing that can be very useful for emotion regulation, which is some short form of meditation for stress tolerance-
到目前为止，我们至少强调了一件对情绪调节非常有用的事情，那就是某种简短形式的压力耐受冥想——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Correct
正确
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that can give somebody, create a gap or an opportunity and a moment to at least take some time and regulate a bit.
这可以给某人创造一个差距或一个机会和一个时刻，至少需要一些时间并进行一些调整。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to layer on something else which I'm hearing, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that I'm hearing, which is we should all know our assumptions or our presumptions based on our upbringing.
我想再说一些我听到的东西，我不想把话放在你嘴里，但我听到的是，我们都应该知道我们的假设或基于我们的成长的假设。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We need to do this for ourselves.
我们需要为自己做这件事。
No one can do it for us.
没有人能为我们做到这一点。
No single article is going to spell out the full array of ways that one conceptualizes anger or sadness for men, for women, for straight people, for gay people.
没有一篇文章能够阐明人们对男性、女性、异性恋、同性恋者的愤怒或悲伤的全部概念化方式。
But this space is actually worth thinking about.
但这个空间其实是值得思考的。
Right now there's a little bit of a battle against introspection.
现在有一些反对内省的斗争。
This is not introspection, I want to be very clear.
这不是内省，我想非常清楚。
That's a separate matter, but this is really just what any really good scientist would do, is to know your assumptions before you-
这是一个单独的问题，但这确实是任何真正优秀的科学家都会做的，就是在你之前知道你的假设-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Correct
正确
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
generate a hypothesis.
产生一个假设。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
It is introspection.
这是内省。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, fair.
好吧，公平。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
But just like anything, over-introspection leads to rumination.
但就像任何事情一样，过度内省会导致沉思。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
And so we're not recommending...
所以我们不推荐...
I don't want you, Andrew, to be obsessively, compulsively checking in with how you're feeling all day long.
安德鲁，我不希望你整天强迫性地检查自己的感受。
That is unhelpful.
那是没有帮助的。
It's bad.
这很糟糕。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people would say I need to do more of that.
有些人会说我需要做更多这样的事情。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Maybe you do.
也许你会。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't.
我不知道。
I don't think so.
我不这么认为。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Emotions matter when they're going to either help or interfere with our performance.
当情绪会帮助或干扰我们的表现时，它就很重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
That's when we have to check in.
到时候我们就得去检查一下。
Most of the time, thank goodness, they're in the background.
大多数时候，谢天谢地，他们都在幕后。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
When you're driving, you're not thinking, "How am I feeling?
当你开车时，你不会想：“我感觉怎么样？
How am I feeling?" It'd be weird.
我感觉怎么样？”那就奇怪了。
That would just be weird.
那会很奇怪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
And you don't want to do that.
而你不想这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But checking in with one's assumptions based on our upbringing, I think would be very useful.
但是根据我们的成长经历来检查一个人的假设，我认为会非常有用。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Very.
非常。
That's the point.
这就是重点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And has that been formalized into a...
这是否已经正式化为...
People love questionnaires.
人们喜欢问卷调查。
I think if it hasn't been done, I think it'd be amazing.
我想如果这件事没有完成的话，我想那会很了不起。
About eight months ago, I had this wild experience where I realized I had this massive assumption worked into my framework.
大约八个月前，我经历了一次疯狂的经历，我意识到我的框架中包含了这个巨大的假设。
So I had these friends and I was visiting them, and they called me upstairs, and there was a bird flying around, and it was flying into the windows.
所以我有这些朋友，我去拜访他们，他们叫我上楼，有一只鸟在周围飞来飞去，它飞进了窗户。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I was like, "Oh my God." I had birds growing up.
我当时想，“天哪。”我从小养鸟。
Kiwi and Sugar Ray Leonard were my life before I hit puberty and birds were my life.
在我进入青春期之前，Kiwi 和 Sugar Ray Leonard 是我的生活，而鸟类则是我的生活。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I loved birds and I love animals of all kinds.
我喜欢鸟类，也喜欢各种动物。
And I was looking up there and this bird's just flying into the window.
我抬头一看，这只鸟刚刚飞进窗户。
It's not going to make it out, and it's just doing immense damage to itself.
它不会成功，而且只会对自己造成巨大的伤害。
And one of them said, "Oh, he keeps flying against the window." I was like, "Okay." And I tried to get him out and I couldn't get him out.
其中一个说：“哦，他一直在窗户上飞。”我当时想，“好吧。”我试图把他弄出来，但没能把他弄出来。
Really high ceilings, we didn't have the right thing.
天花板真的很高，我们没有合适的东西。
And I said, "You know, I'm just going to open the windows, go downstairs, come back and check on it." And I ended up going back and they said, "Well, is he okay?
我说：“你知道，我只是要打开窗户，下楼，回来检查一下。”我最终回去了，他们说：“嗯，他还好吗？
Is he okay?" And I'm like, "No." I said something like, "This idiot bird-"
他还好吗？”我的回答是：“不。”我说了类似这样的话：“这只白痴鸟——”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is like flying into the window.
就像飞进窗户一样。
It's like, this moron is going to kill himself.
就好像这个白痴要自杀一样。
He got out eventually.
他最终还是出来了。
And about two weeks later, one of them called me and said, "Listen, I really need to talk to you about something.
大约两周后，其中一个人打电话给我说：“听着，我真的需要和你谈谈一件事。
It's really been on my mind." I was like, "Okay." And she said, "You know, I was really disturbed how you reacted."
这真的一直在我的脑海里。”我当时想，“好吧。”她说：“你知道，你的反应让我感到非常不安。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I was like, "What do you mean?" I was like, "I was trying to help the bird." Like, I love animals, I mean, I really do.
我当时想，“你什么意思？”我当时想，“我正在努力帮助那只鸟。”就像，我喜欢动物，我是说，我真的喜欢。
I mean, one of the reasons I like doing the work I do now, instead of what I used to do, is I don't have to work on animals anymore.
我的意思是，我喜欢现在所做的工作而不是以前所做的原因之一是我不再需要在动物身上工作了。
I hated it, honestly.
老实说，我讨厌它。
And I understand why it has to be done in many cases, but I hated it.
我理解为什么在很多情况下必须这样做，但我讨厌它。
So she said, "Well, just you're talking to this bird like he's an idiot." And I realized in that moment, I was like, "Oh, shit." I was like, if you had said, "Oh, that poor girl, she's flying against the window," I would've been like, "Oh, the poor thing."
所以她说：“好吧，只是你对这只鸟说话，就像他是个白痴一样。”在那一刻我意识到，我当时想，“哦，该死。”我当时想，如果你说，“哦，那个可怜的女孩，她正飞向窗户，”我会说，“哦，可怜的东西。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like, "She really needs it." And I immediately realized this strong-
就像，“她真的需要它。”我立刻意识到这种强烈的——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
sex/gender bias that I had, that if a female animal is somehow damaging herself, like, "Oh my God, help her, save her." And with him, if it's a boy, same thing, I want to help, but then my assumption was, "You idiot." Like, "You idiot." And I realized I grew up in a big pack of dudes, and when someone does something stupid, you're like, "Dude, you're an idiot."
我有性别偏见，如果雌性动物以某种方式伤害自己，就像，“天哪，帮助她，拯救她。”对于他来说，如果是个男孩，同样的事情，我想帮忙，但我的假设是，“你这个白痴。”比如，“你这个白痴。”我意识到我是在一群男人中长大的，当有人做了一些愚蠢的事情时，你会说，“伙计，你是个白痴。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like, "What are you doing?" But actually to me, it was a mode of affection.
就像，“你在做什么？”但实际上对我来说，这是一种爱的方式。
I'm sure I upset some people by saying this, but in full disclosure, I just had this massive assumption, and I've actually had to pay attention to that going forward.
我确信我这样说会让一些人感到不安，但在完全公开的情况下，我只是有了这个巨大的假设，而且我实际上必须关注未来的情况。
But I didn't realize I had that really strong bias.
但我没有意识到我有那么强烈的偏见。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Again, this is all going to that mindset area of emotion regulation.
再说一次，这一切都涉及情绪调节的心态领域。
I mean, parents have that with their kids.
我的意思是，父母对他们的孩子也是如此。
I can't tell you how many kids, you observe a parent with their son or daughter, doesn't matter, and the kid is trying to like climb a rock, and the parent, because of their own fears, "Oh my God, honey, be careful, be careful, be careful." And all of a sudden, the kid is losing their self-confidence to climb the thing.
我无法告诉你有多少孩子，你观察到父母和他们的儿子或女儿在一起，没关系，孩子试图爬上一块岩石，而父母，因为他们自己的恐惧，“天哪，亲爱的，小心，小心，小心。”突然之间，这个孩子失去了攀爬那东西的自信。
As opposed to a parent who's skillful, who checks their assumptions.
与熟练的父母相反，他们会检查自己的假设。
You know, "I'm nervous." Okay, fine, you're nervous.
你知道，“我很紧张”。好吧，好吧，你紧张了。
Your kid's probably not going to get hurt.
你的孩子可能不会受伤。
Take a breath.
吸一口气。
And maybe say something like, "Honey, gosh, that looks like it's really hard.
也许可以这样说：“亲爱的，天哪，这看起来真的很难。
I'm pretty confident you're going to get there.
我非常有信心你会到达那里。
Let me just come a little closer to be there, just in case something goes wrong, but I really do think you're going to make it." What do you think that's instilling in the kid?
让我离那里更近一点，以防万一出现问题，但我真的相信你会成功的。”你认为这会给孩子灌输什么？
Totally different way-
完全不同的方式——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, totally different
是的，完全不同
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
...
...
of thinking about it.
思考它。
And so that parent's assumption, that parent's fears is being projected.
因此，父母的假设、父母的恐惧正在被预测。
If they were more skilled at co-regulating and recognizing, my job is to instill resilience in my kid, my job is to help my kid feel like they can do it on their own.
如果他们更擅长共同调节和识别，我的工作就是向我的孩子灌输韧性，我的工作就是帮助我的孩子感觉他们可以自己做到这一点。
Because that's what this work in co-regulation I'm doing, which I think is so important, is this intentional, you're being super intentional about supporting other people and managing their emotions.
因为这就是我正在做的共同监管工作，我认为这非常重要，这是有意的，你非常有意识地支持其他人并管理他们的情绪。
But the whole goal of it is to support the other person in being capable of regulating on their own eventually.
但其整体目标是支持他人最终能够自行调节。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Not codependent, not coddling, but actually instilling the belief in the other person that they can do it.
不是相互依赖，不是溺爱，而是实际上向对方灌输他们可以做到的信念。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
I guess what I'd love to know is, is there a formal process or questionnaire, et cetera, to learning to understand one's own kind of, the word bias is so loaded.
我想我想知道的是，是否有一个正式的过程或调查问卷等来学习了解自己的类型，偏见这个词是如此重要。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yes, there is.
是的，有。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The word bias is biased.
偏见这个词就是有偏见的。
But to really parse, like, oh, this is how I conceive the world in and around emotions-
但要真正解析，就像，哦，这就是我如何构想情感中和周围的世界——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
There are
有
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
gender specific emotions, because I think that'd just be very useful.
性别特定的情感，因为我认为这非常有用。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
It is.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because then it allows somebody to do what you just described and really know the difference between helping somebody get to the point where they can work-
因为这样它可以让某人做你刚才描述的事情，并真正了解帮助某人达到他们可以工作的地步之间的区别-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
with their emotions on their own versus projecting our own beliefs around, hey, this is the way it's supposed to be done.
带着他们自己的情绪，而不是投射我们自己的信念，嘿，这就是应该做的事情。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Yes, there are plenty of surveys.
是的，有很多调查。
Actually, in my book, I even give people a list of them, and you can play around with that and just look at your mindsets and attitudes about them, and you'll see patterns.
事实上，在我的书中，我什至给了人们一个清单，你可以尝试一下，看看你对它们的心态和态度，你就会看到模式。
I had no cognitive awareness that I had this weird relationship to happiness until I did my own exercise, and it was eye-opening for me.
在我自己做练习之前，我没有意识到我与幸福有这种奇怪的关系，这让我大开眼界。
And I've set goals for myself, like, "Mark, when they are applauding you when you're giving your speech, let them enjoy it.
我为自己设定了目标，比如，“马克，当你演讲时他们为你鼓掌时，让他们享受其中。
If they're applauding, it means it was good.
如果他们鼓掌，就说明做得很好。
Don't be like, 'Eh.' Like breathe, be present, and take it in." And actually, it works.
不要说“呃”。就像呼吸一样，活在当下，并接受它。”事实上，它确实有效。
It's a beautiful phenomenon.
这是一个美丽的现象。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The awareness of our programming can liberate us from so many painful things.
对编程的认识可以将我们从许多痛苦的事情中解放出来。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
We spent a lot of time on this, which is interesting because I don't usually spend so much time talking about these assumptions and mindsets and beliefs.
我们在这方面花了很多时间，这很有趣，因为我通常不会花太多时间谈论这些假设、心态和信念。
We spent some time talking about the vocabulary words, which is very important.
我们花了一些时间讨论词汇，这非常重要。
You got to be self-aware.
你必须有自我意识。
Anger is not the same as disappointment.
愤怒与失望不同。
Envy is not the same as jealousy.
羡慕不等于嫉妒。
Happiness is not the same as contentment.
Happiness is not the same as contentment.
Anxiety, stress, pressure, and fear, and overwhelmed are all different.
焦虑、压力、压力、恐惧、不知所措都是不同的。
And I know people listening might be like, "Oh my God, you're overwhelming me," but we have our app that you've seen, the How We Feel app, to give you that vocabulary, and it really does matter.
我知道人们听后可能会说，“天哪，你让我不知所措”，但我们有您所见过的应用程序，即“我们的感觉”应用程序，可以为您提供这些词汇，这确实很重要。
It matters for communication, it matters for getting your needs met, it matters for choosing the strategy.
这对于沟通很重要，对于满足您的需求很重要，对于选择策略也很重要。
But again, it's not enough.
但同样，这还不够。
So you got to know how to breathe, and you have to do your mindfulness work to bring the temperature down, to still your mind.
所以你必须知道如何呼吸，你必须做正念工作来降低温度，让你的头脑平静下来。
I mean, think about our minds nowadays.
我的意思是，想想我们现在的想法。
I mean, the ability to process information has dwindled completely.
我的意思是，处理信息的能力已经完全下降。
Just to give you one example, we used to do two and a half minute videos for trainings.
举个例子，我们过去常常制作两分半钟的培训视频。
People won't get through them.
人们将无法通过它们。
30 seconds.
30秒。
And this is why people aren't learning anything anymore, because how are you going to teach an emotion regulation strategy in 30 seconds?
这就是为什么人们不再学习任何东西，因为你如何在 30 秒内教授情绪调节策略？
It's like an Instagram post.
It's like an Instagram post.
Of course, that's driving me crazy, too, because so many influencers are, my favorite one recently was this Very famous influencer teaching about emotion regulation and she said, "I've decided to throw away my anxiety." And so she's in the car, and she opens the door, and she's like, "Goodbye, anxiety." And I'm thinking to myself, like, "That door is going to hit you so hard in the face." But yet, 3,000, 5,000, 25,000 whatever likes, and people are like, "Oh my God, I'm throwing away my anxiety." It's like you can't throw away your anxiety.
当然，这也让我发疯，因为很多有影响力的人，我最近最喜欢的是一位非常著名的有影响力的人，她教授有关情绪调节的知识，她说，“我决定扔掉我的焦虑。”所以她在车里，打开车门，她说，“再见，焦虑。”我心里想，“那扇门会狠狠地打在你脸上。”但不管怎样，3,000、5,000、25,000，人们都会说，“天哪，我要扔掉我的焦虑了。”就好像你无法摆脱焦虑一样。
It doesn't work that way.
事实并非如此。
The quick-fix thing is an issue.
The quick-fix thing is an issue.
Then we got to learn how to rethink our feelings.
然后我们必须学习如何重新思考我们的感受。
That's the programming we have to do.
That's the programming we have to do.
We have to learn some of the things that you've spoken about on other podcasts here, whether it's the cognitive reappraisal, whether it's the reframing, whether it's the distancing, whether it's having gratitude as opposed to resentment and envy.
我们必须学习你在其他播客上谈到的一些事情，无论是认知重新评估，是否是重新构建，是否是疏远，是否是感恩而不是怨恨和嫉妒。
I never had anyone help me practice cognitive regulation.
我从来没有人帮助我练习认知调节。
Nobody ever taught me there was even a s-- I never knew there was a thing called reframing.
没有人教过我，甚至没有人教过我，我从来不知道有一种叫做重构的东西。
And it's saved my life as an adult because, again, we go in with assumptions about other people, too.
作为一个成年人，它拯救了我的生命，因为我们也对其他人做出了假设。
And if you can say, "Wait a minute, Marc, is there another way to look at this?
如果你可以说，“等一下，马克，还有另一种方式来看待这个问题吗？
Is there another story you can be telling yourself around this?" This goes back to something we talked about earlier.
围绕这件事你还有什么故事可以告诉自己吗？”这又回到了我们之前讨论过的事情。
We want to be careful about that because in abusive relationships, it can become gaslighting, right?
我们要小心这一点，因为在虐待关系中，它可能会变成煤气灯，对吗？
"Honey, you're too sensitive." "No, you're a jerk.
"Honey, you're too sensitive." “不，你是个混蛋。
I'm not too sensitive.
我不是太敏感。
You're trying to make me feel bad about the fact that you're lying to me all the time." Not helpful.
你试图让我因为你一直在对我撒谎而感到难过。”没有帮助。
And that's also reframing, but it's a form of deception where another person is trying to define your reality for you.
这也是重构，但这是一种欺骗形式，另一个人试图为你定义你的现实。
Super scary.
超级可怕。
And we can do that to ourselves, too.
And we can do that to ourselves, too.
We can trick ourselves into believing things that way.
我们可以欺骗自己，让自己相信这样的事情。
Reframing is playing with this idea of telling yourself a new story, but you have to always be a scientist about it.
重构就是利用这个想法告诉自己一个新的故事，但你必须始终成为一个关于它的科学家。
And that's the one thing about all the strategies is that you have to come back as a scientist and ask yourself the question, "Is this helping me live the life I want?
所有策略的一件事是，你必须以科学家的身份回来问自己这个问题：“这能帮助我过上我想要的生活吗？
Am I in a better relationship?
Am I in a better relationship?
Am I better able at managing my anxiety applying these cognitive strategies or these labeling strategies?"
应用这些认知策略或这些标签策略，我是否能够更好地管理我的焦虑？”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I find psychology fascinating.
I find psychology fascinating.
The reason I became a biologist, however, is because I got confused by psychology.
然而，我成为一名生物学家的原因是因为我对心理学感到困惑。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And-
还有——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
It's too big of a field
领域太大了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
well, and the field wasn't as evolved as it is now, as structured as it is now.
嗯，这个领域并没有像现在这样发展，也没有像现在这样结构化。
But I remember thinking, okay, I could see the argument, maybe even the experiment for healthy expression of emotion allows that emotion to move through-
但我记得我当时想，好吧，我可以看到这个论点，也许健康表达情感的实验也能让这种情感得以传播——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
allows us to be healthier physically and mentally.
使我们的身心更加健康。
I can also probably find a manuscript that shows that for every minute longer we focus on being angry, that our anger grows, and-
我或许还可以找到一份手稿，其中显示，我们专注于愤怒的时间每延长一分钟，我们的愤怒就会增加，而且——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I don't know what the answer is.
I don't know what the answer is.
I sense that's probably not the case.
I sense that's probably not the case.
But I just remember being very afraid of the contradictions.
但我只记得我非常害怕矛盾。
Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Out of sight, out of mind.
眼不见心不烦。
I was like, "Well, which one is it?"
I was like, "Well, which one is it?"
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And of course, it's both, right?
And of course, it's both, right?
And that's the complexity of the human mind, so I decided to think about cells and circuits instead.
这就是人类思维的复杂性，所以我决定转而考虑细胞和电路。
And served me well in my career, probably in my life.
在我的职业生涯中，甚至在我的生活中，都为我提供了很好的帮助。
I remain intensely interested in the sorts of issues we're talking about-
我仍然对我们正在讨论的各种问题非常感兴趣-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
now, including these generational differences.
now, including these generational differences.
And here's my question.
这是我的问题。
Typically, most work, school, and other environments are hierarchical in the sense that the older people have more seniority and-
通常，大多数工作、学校和其他环境都是等级制的，因为老年人的资历更高，并且——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
more power.
更多的力量。
I sense that nowadays there's an understandable concern and interest in young people's emotions and emotional processing.
我感觉到现在人们对年轻人的情绪和情绪处理的关注和兴趣是可以理解的。
But I also get the sense from my peers that there's this fear of the younger generation, like they're actually in control.
但我也从我的同龄人那里感觉到，人们对年轻一代有这种恐惧，就好像他们实际上掌控着一切。
I just got through doing three two-hour-long trainings because Stanford understandably has you do-
我刚刚完成了三场两小时的培训，因为斯坦福大学让你这么做，这是可以理解的——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
harassment training and-
骚扰培训和——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
workplace safety, workplace violence.
workplace safety, workplace violence.
You have to learn what the rules are.
You have to learn what the rules are.
And I was very surprised to realize that all faculty and staff and some postdocs take this training.
我非常惊讶地发现所有教职员工和一些博士后都参加了这项培训。
Students don't take it, meaning you have two completely different views of what the rules are.
学生不接受，这意味着你们对规则有两种完全不同的看法。
And this is not unique to Stanford.
这并不是斯坦福大学独有的。
This is unique to a lot of big organizations.
这对于许多大型组织来说是独一无二的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's not even a criticism.
这甚至不是批评。
I'm sure like everything at Stanford, there's a rationale, but it's kind of interesting.
我确信就像斯坦福大学的一切一样，都有其合理性，但也很有趣。
You would hope that there would be a universal, at least nomenclature.
你会希望有一个通用的，至少是命名法。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just like we know what a mitochondria are here and in Nicaragua, it'd be nice to know that-
就像我们知道这里和尼加拉瓜的线粒体是什么一样，很高兴知道 -
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I agree
我同意
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
anger and disappointment, while those words are spoken differently in two different countries, that there's sort of a basic universal understanding of what emotions are, what they're not, how much comes from our past, how much is about our physiology, and how to work with them.
愤怒和失望，虽然这些词在两个不同的国家有不同的说法，但对于情绪是什么、不是什么、有多少来自我们的过去、有多少与我们的生理有关，以及如何处理它们，都有一种基本的普遍理解。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm not saying this is going to solve all the problems in the world, but a lot of the problems that I see out there are misunderstandings about where the line is.
我并不是说这会解决世界上所有的问题，但我看到的很多问题都存在对底线在哪里的误解。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's sissy.
那是娘娘腔。
No, that's healthy emotional expression.
不，这是健康的情感表达。
Okay.
好的。
That's anger.
那就是愤怒。
No, that's passion.
不，那是激情。
That person's a narcissist.
那个人是个自恋者。
No, that person just isn't spending a lot of time thinking about their own thoughts.
不，那个人只是没有花很多时间思考自己的想法。
And on and on and on.
不断不断。
I'm certain that one of the reasons your work and your colleagues' work is so important is because we need a universal nomenclature.
我确信您的工作和同事的工作如此重要的原因之一是因为我们需要一个通用的术语。
We need an agreement that there's at least a way to understand and navigate this stuff.
我们需要达成协议，至少有一种方法可以理解和驾驭这些东西。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
This is why the work I do in schools, it's not like a teacher comes to a training and does it in their classroom.
这就是为什么我在学校做的工作，不像老师来参加培训并在他们的教室里做。
It doesn't work that way.
事实并非如此。
I learned this the hard way.
我经历了惨痛的教训才明白这一点。
It's got to be a systemic approach.
这必须是一种系统性的方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
The leaders, the teachers, the students, and the parents need all the same language to describe the work we do on emotional intelligence.
领导、老师、学生、家长都需要同一种语言来描述我们在情商方面所做的工作。
It makes a huge difference.
这有很大的不同。
The superintendent can go into the kindergarten room and have that same conversation.
园长可以走进幼儿园的教室进行同样的对话。
We all know what these emotions mean, and we're all thinking like scientists around emotions.
我们都知道这些情绪意味着什么，并且我们都像科学家一样思考情绪。
I want to just go back, though, because something you said I think is important to address.
不过，我想回去，因为我认为你所说的一些事情很重要。
And I wish, I only wish that there was the correct answer to how we should feel and what we should do with our feelings.
我希望，我只希望对于我们应该如何感受以及我们应该如何处理我们的感受有正确的答案。
It just doesn't work that way.
事实并非如此。
A funny story about this.
关于这个的一个有趣的故事。
So I'm giving a speech to 1,500 police officers who I don't think were told in advance that some guy from Connecticut was going to be giving a speech for three and a half hours about feelings.
因此，我要向 1,500 名警察发表演讲，我认为他们没有事先被告知，来自康涅狄格州的某个人将要发表一个为期三个半小时的关于感受的演讲。
And so I walk into the room, it was like out of a freaking movie, and all of a sudden, it's like, "And we're welcoming Mark to talk about emotions." And all of a sudden, you can see these facial expressions.
所以我走进房间，就像从一部怪异的电影中走出来一样，突然之间，就像是，“我们欢迎马克谈论情感。”突然间，你可以看到这些面部表情。
And these guys, people who can't see me right now, slouching in their seats with their guns in their pockets.
而这些家伙，现在看不到我的人，无精打采地坐在座位上，枪插在口袋里。
I'm thinking to myself, "What have I gotten myself into?" And so I start playing around, I'm telling jokes.
我心里想：“我到底把自己惹上了什么麻烦？”于是我开始玩耍，讲笑话。
I've got to figure out how to meet this group.
我得想办法去见见这个团体。
And the thing that struck me that I haven't forgotten was one guy just stood up, and he's like, "I'm not sure I'm interested in this." I said, "Okay." He said, "But I do want to know one thing, Doc.
让我印象深刻、我没有忘记的一件事是，一个人刚刚站起来，他说，“我不确定我对此感兴趣。”我说：“好吧。”他说：“但我确实想知道一件事，博士。
What's the only strategy that works?" And I said, and of course, I'm a psychologist, "It doesn't work that way.
唯一有效的策略是什么？”我说，当然，我是一名心理学家，“事情不是这样的。
There's many strategies.
有很多策略。
It's an emotion by person, by context phenomenon." And people are so desperate for the right answer.
这是一种因人而异、因环境而异的现象。”人们非常渴望正确的答案。
I think the beauty of it is that it's messy.
我认为它的美妙之处在于它是混乱的。
The beauty of it is that it's a journey.
它的美妙之处在于它是一次旅程。
The beauty of it is that it's a process.
它的美妙之处在于它是一个过程。
The beauty of it is that we have to ask ourselves questions over the course of our development, "Is how I'm living my life working for me or against me to achieve my goals?" And we have to check in with other people, like our partners and our friends, and our kids and whoever else, and our colleagues.
它的美妙之处在于，我们必须在发展过程中问自己一些问题：“我的生活方式是对我实现目标有利还是不利？”我们必须与其他人沟通，比如我们的合作伙伴和朋友，我们的孩子和其他人，以及我们的同事。
And I hate to say that, but the people who are dying for the correct strategy, there is no correct strategy.
我不想这么说，但那些为正确策略而死的人，却没有正确的策略。
I worked as a fitness instructor for 10 years of my life while I taught martial arts.
我在教授武术的同时，担任了 10 年的健身教练。
I saw so many people use exercise as a way to escape their reality.
我看到很多人用锻炼来逃避现实。
They just were on the treadmill for 10 hours a day with an eating disorder who were just thinking, "This is my healthy strategy," and they were ruining their lives.
他们患有饮食失调症，每天在跑步机上锻炼 10 个小时，他们只是想，“这是我的健康策略”，结果他们毁了自己的生活。
Same thing with food, the same thing with you can trick yourself into believing things.
食物也是如此，你也可以欺骗自己相信一些事情。
The goal of this work is to help people pause, consider ideas, and then you have to go back and say, "How is my life?
这项工作的目标是帮助人们停下来思考想法，然后你必须回过头来说：“我的生活怎么样？
How are my relationships?
我的人际关系怎么样？
How's my work going?" Et cetera.
我的工作进展得怎么样了？”等等。
And that's where the real beauty comes out of the learning.
这就是学习的真正魅力所在。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm checking back into my developmental biases as a way to ask questions that I hope are relevant to everyone, and now especially.
我正在重新检查我的发展偏见，以此来提出我希望与每个人相关的问题，尤其是现在。
And one of the things that I've observed is that there seems to be a broadening of the contexts in which broader ranges of emotions are allowed.
我观察到的一件事是，允许更广泛的情绪范围的环境似乎在扩大。
Online is a really good example of all of it.
在线就是一个很好的例子。
All of it, right?
所有这些，对吗？
And I think that the judgments about, well, this person is losing their cool, and someone will say, "Well, so and so stepped in front of his motorcycle," for instance.
我认为，关于这个人的判断正在失去冷静，例如，有人会说，“嗯，某某走到了他的摩托车前面”。
These are the debates that reflect all these developmental biases, and in some cases, there's a legal line.
这些争论反映了所有这些发展偏见，在某些情况下，存在法律界限。
And those legal channels, by the way, are very interesting.
顺便说一句，那些合法渠道非常有趣。
There's a great channel.
有一个很棒的频道。
It's a little too Hollywood because the guy worked in Hollywood, but he's a lawyer, and it's called "The Legal Beef." I don't know him, but he does these everyday cases of like, someone says, "It's illegal to film here.
这有点太好莱坞了，因为这个人在好莱坞工作，但他是一名律师，它被称为“合法牛肉”。我不认识他，但他每天都会做这些事情，比如，有人说，“在这里拍摄是违法的。
You can't touch my camera." And he goes, "Well, that's the legal beef," tells you, and he gives you exactly what the law says.
你不能碰我的相机。”他告诉你，“好吧，这就是合法的牛肉”，然后他就给了你法律规定的内容。
And so I think we tend to like that.
所以我认为我们往往喜欢这样。
I certainly like that.
我当然喜欢这样。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I like thick black lines, clear operational definitions.
我喜欢粗黑线、清晰的操作定义。
But it is true that, for instance, growing up, I wasn't of the mind that it's not okay to cry.
但确实，例如，在成长过程中，我并不认为哭泣是不好的。
But it was definitely certain places, certain times.
但这绝对是在某些地点、某些时间。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It does seem like the workplace and school and online, it's become either more accepted or it just happens that people are bringing more of their own stuff.
工作场所、学校和网络似乎确实变得更加被接受，或者只是人们带来了更多自己的东西。
And I think one thing I worry about, I'm showing my age here, but the one thing that I worry about as people think about their emotions without having really good strategies to work with them, is that they lose the ability to be effective.
我认为我担心的一件事是，我在这里暴露了我的年龄，但我担心的一件事是，当人们思考自己的情绪而没有真正好的策略来应对他们时，他们失去了有效的能力。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I agree.
我同意。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because time is running, and I hear from a fair number of friends whose kid is struggling because they're dealing with depression or they're dealing with anxiety or they have a cannabis use disorder.
因为时间在流逝，我听到很多朋友说，他们的孩子正在挣扎，因为他们正在应对抑郁症、焦虑症或大麻使用障碍。
Time's ticking, and developmental milestones are real.
时间在流逝，发展里程碑是真实的。
And so the question I have is: how should people think about evolving their own ability to work with their emotions?
所以我的问题是：人们应该如何考虑发展自己处理情绪的能力？
Because you said it's a process, it's a dance, it takes time, with the need to really show up and get things done in life.
因为你说这是一个过程，这是一种舞蹈，需要时间，需要真正出现并完成生活中的事情。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because you and I are two people who are degreed and have steady jobs, and we have space to think about this stuff.
因为你和我是两个有学位、有稳定工作的人，我们有空间去思考这些事情。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Well, we do.
嗯，我们愿意。
And I always tell people that, for example, there's a school, I won't mention its name because this is not a good story, post the election, this past election, wrote a note to every student and said, "We recognize that some of you may be feeling overwhelmed by your feelings, and if you need to take the day off, it's okay." I almost had a conniption about that.
我总是告诉人们，比如说，有一所学校，我不会提到它的名字，因为这不是一个好故事，选举后，过去的选举，给每个学生写了一张纸条，说，“我们认识到你们中的一些人可能会被自己的感受压垮，如果你们需要休息一天，那没关系。”我差点就犯了这个错误。
That's my father speaking, conniption.
那是我父亲在说话，心痛。
But I was like, "I cannot believe this is happening." It was a school that I work with.
但我当时想，“我不敢相信这会发生。”这是我工作过的一所学校。
I wanted to call the head of that school and say, "This is the worst advice you can give people." People have to learn how to live with difficult feelings.
我想打电话给那所学校的校长并说：“这是你能给人们的最糟糕的建议。”人们必须学会如何忍受困难的感觉。
And if we're going to give excuses to people, they can just like, "I'm overwhelmed by what's happened," and not be able to process it and manage it and move forward in their life We're going to create a generation of very weak people.
如果我们要给人们找借口，他们可能会说，“我对所发生的事情感到不知所措”，而无法处理它、管理它并在他们的生活中继续前进。我们将创造出一代非常软弱的人。
So I couldn't agree more, and that's not what this work is about.
所以我完全同意，但这不是这项工作的目的。
That's the confusion.
这就是混乱。
It's been politicized in many ways, sometimes, and there's groups of people now that say, "You're making kids fragile by having them talk about their feelings." And I say it's called emotional intelligence, emotion regulation.
有时，它在很多方面都被政治化了，现在有一些人说，“让孩子们谈论自己的感受，让他们变得脆弱。”我说这叫做情商，情绪调节。
We're not letting them sit in their feelings all day long.
我们不会让他们整天沉浸在自己的感情中。
We want them to recognize, is that feeling helping or hurting them achieve their goals?
我们希望他们认识到，这种感觉是帮助还是伤害了他们实现目标？
If it's getting in the way, you need to strategize.
如果它妨碍了你，你就需要制定策略。
And the goal is to move forward, not to be stuck in.
目标是前进，而不是停滞不前。
I think that's a huge issue right now.
我认为现在这是一个大问题。
And the same thing with discomfort.
同样的事情也伴随着不适。
It's okay to be uncomf-- My whole career is built upon being uncomfortable.
感到不舒服没关系——我的整个职业生涯都是建立在不舒服的基础上的。
People saying, "I don't like your work.
人们说：“我不喜欢你的工作。
Your program's going to turn kids into homosexuals.
你的计划会把孩子变成同性恋。
I don't want to talk about feelings." You're this-
我不想谈论感情。”你是这样的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm no psychologist, but you recreated your childhood with the public.
我不是心理学家，但你与公众一起重现了你的童年。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
There you go.
就这样吧。
Sublimated.
升华了。
But I love that feeling, that discomfort.
但我喜欢那种感觉，那种不适。
I sit with it.
我和它坐在一起。
I don't try to push it away, and I think, mark what your creative solution.
我不想把它推开，我想，标记一下你的创造性解决方案。
That, to me, is the beauty of the work.
对我来说，这就是这项工作的美妙之处。
If I just got paralyzed by that, where would I go in life?
如果我就此陷入瘫痪，我的人生将何去何从？
I would be frozen.
我会被冻住的。
We don't want kids to be frozen.
我们不希望孩子被冻住。
We don't want anyone to be frozen.
我们不希望任何人被冻结。
We want people to be able to live their lives, experience the full range of emotions, regulate effectively, and achieve their goals.
我们希望人们能够过自己的生活，体验各种情绪，有效调节并实现他们的目标。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm no psychologist.
我不是心理学家。
I've said that four times.
我已经说过四次了。
But I have the strong feeling that your martial arts training prepared you to be public-facing because it is a relationship, right?
但我有一种强烈的感觉，你的武术训练让你准备好面对公众，因为这是一种关系，对吗？
And I'd like to talk a little bit about that relationship specifically because-
我想具体谈谈这种关系，因为——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you've been this amazing ambassador for emotions, what they are, how to work with them in a healthy way, and to also still show up in life, to not necessarily take the day off.
你一直是情绪的出色大使，情绪是什么，如何以健康的方式处理情绪，并且仍然出现在生活中，不一定要休息一天。
Right?
正确的？
If you-
如果你-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
lose a-
失去一个-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Of course
当然
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
close family member, we would all say like, "Of course, stay home.
亲密的家庭成员，我们都会说，“当然，呆在家里。
Take a day.
花一天时间。
Take what you need," right?
拿走你需要的，”对吧？
But eventually come back.
但最终还是回来了。
That's an important-
这是一个重要的——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
You have to come back
你必须回来
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
piece, too.
一块，也是。
That's an important piece, too, to not, as one scientist I used to work with say, dissolve into a puddle.
这也是一个重要的部分，正如我曾经合作过的一位科学家所说，不要溶解成水坑。
He used to say when someone's paper came back, he said, "Before you look, if it gets rejected, don't dissolve into a puddle of your own tears."
他常说，当某人的论文被退回时，他说：“在你看之前，如果它被拒绝，不要化成你自己的泪水。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was that kind of old school, harsh thing, but I think it came from a place of care because you're like, listen, it's not the end of the world.
这是一种老式的、严酷的事情，但我认为它来自于一个关怀的地方，因为你会说，听着，这不是世界末日。
And there have been graduate students who have killed themselves on the basis of their PhD-
还有研究生凭借博士学位自杀了——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Terrible
太糟糕了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
not going well.
进展不顺利。
I know stories about this, sadly.
可悲的是，我知道有关此的故事。
You have taken some heat for both being a champion of this process, but also by not giving in to this idea that we're all just supposed to take the decade off.
你们既是这一进程的倡导者，又不屈服于我们都应该休息十年的想法，这让你们受到了一些压力。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so you get it from both sides.
所以你从双方都得到了它。
You're in a unique position.
你处于一个独特的位置。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I feel for you because some people will say, "Hey, listen, you're teaching people to be soft," and clearly, that's not what you're advocating for.
我对你感同身受，因为有些人会说，“嘿，听着，你在教人们变得温柔”，显然，这不是你所提倡的。
And people have also said, "Hey, you're pushing us to push our feelings away, and there's a lot that we're really angry about in the world, and how can you be talking about this when fascism is taking over, there's a war, this-
人们还说，“嘿，你在迫使我们抛开我们的感情，世界上有很多事情让我们真正感到愤怒，当法西斯主义掌权、有战争、这-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.
等等，等等，等等，等等。
So how have you, just personally, if you're willing, how has that landed and how have you decided to respond to that?
那么，就您个人而言，如果您愿意的话，情况如何？您决定如何回应？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I love challenge, and so I wrote this piece for Time Magazine.
我喜欢挑战，所以我为《时代》杂志写了这篇文章。
And of course, you probably know this, but when you write an op-ed, the publisher decides on the title, and they like to be provocative, so they called it "The Overreaction Epidemic," and I got slammed for it.
当然，你可能知道这一点，但是当你写一篇专栏文章时，出版商决定标题，他们喜欢挑衅性的，所以他们称之为“反应过度的流行病”，我因此受到了猛烈的抨击。
Overreaction, we're not overreacting.
反应过度，我们并没有反应过度。
The world's coming to an end.
世界末日即将来临。
And it does feel like, for many of us, between wars and everything else happening and political polarization, it does feel that way for many on both sides.
对于我们许多人来说，在战争和其他发生的一切以及政治两极分化之间，双方的许多人确实有这种感觉。
And I say yes, but running around yelling and screaming at people, how is that helpful?
我说是的，但是跑来跑去对人们大喊大叫，这有什么帮助呢？
Where is the benefit to you and to the other person to move forward?
继续前进对你和他人的好处在哪里？
And so to me, it just makes me think more creatively about the work I do.
所以对我来说，它只会让我对我所做的工作更有创意地思考。
And the other side, where people have said that I'm now making people fragile because I'm getting kids and boys to talk about their feelings, and it's going to make them more fragile.
另一方面，人们说我现在让人们变得脆弱，因为我让孩子和男孩谈论他们的感受，这会让他们变得更加脆弱。
As a matter of fact, I saw somebody said recently that this work causes kids to have mental illness.
事实上，我最近看到有人说，这种工作会导致孩子患上精神疾病。
And I was like, wow, that's a good one.
我当时想，哇，那真是太好了。
And again, this stems from misunderstanding of the concepts.
再说一次，这源于对概念的误解。
A, I'm a big stickler, like you said, operational definitions.
答，正如你所说，我是一个非常坚持操作定义的人。
I want to be super clear about what I'm teaching.
我想非常清楚我所教的内容。
I'm not teaching la, la, la, la.
我不是在教啦，啦，啦，啦。
I'm teaching you how to be emotionally self-aware.
我正在教你如何在情感上自我意识。
Would you agree that it matters to be clear about what you're feeling?
你是否同意明确自己的感受很重要？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Okay.
好的。
So when you're clear about how you're feeling, and if that feeling is disrupting you from being a good student or being a good partner or being a good manager leader, do you think that you should use techniques to help you figure out how to manage it?
因此，当您清楚自己的感受时，如果这种感觉妨碍您成为一名好学生、一名好合作伙伴或一名优秀的经理领导者，您是否认为应该使用技巧来帮助您弄清楚如何管理它？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Perfect.
完美。
That's what we teach.
这就是我们所教的。
It's really clear.
真的很清楚。
When you have conceptual clarity, I think there's less confusion.
当你概念清晰时，我认为混乱就会减少。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
What happens is that people, it's gotten politicized.
发生的事情是人们，它已经政治化了。
It's confusing around, going back to what we spoke about earlier, that this is obsessive checking in.
回到我们之前谈到的，这是令人困惑的，这是强迫性的检查。
This is prying into kids' personal lives.
这是在窥探孩子的个人生活。
Here's the deal.
事情是这样的。
A kid comes to school with feelings.
孩子带着感情来到学校。
We all have feelings from the moment we wake up in the morning to the time we go to bed at night, even when we sleep.
从早上醒来到晚上睡觉，甚至睡觉时，我们都会有感觉。
Have you ever been irritable in the morning?
你有没有在早上感到烦躁的时候？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Definitely.
绝对是。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Definitely.
绝对是。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
And have you ever noticed that, we call it incidental leakage.
您是否注意到了，我们称之为偶然泄漏。
It's not a great term, but you're irritable, you really haven't processed it, and you get maybe to the studio here, and then maybe people are trying to interact with you, and you're not the best version of you.
这不是一个很好的术语，但你很烦躁，你真的还没有处理它，你可能会来到这里的工作室，然后也许人们试图与你互动，而你并不是最好的自己。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Definitely.
绝对是。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
That's- What happens?
那是——发生了什么？
And so that happens to a kid who's gotten bullied on the bus or had a fight at home, and you want that kid, like every parent does, I want my kid to be a good learner, have good friends, et cetera.
因此，这种情况发生在一个在公共汽车上被欺负或在家里打架的孩子身上，你想要那个孩子，就像每个父母一样，我希望我的孩子成为一个好的学习者，有好朋友，等等。
All right.
好吧。
So now I'm teaching you a process, Andrew, that before you walk into the studio, I want you to take 30 seconds, maybe 20 if you get good at it, to just check in, take a breath.
所以现在我教你一个过程，安德鲁，在你走进工作室之前，我希望你花 30 秒，如果你擅长的话，可能需要 20 秒，来检查一下，喘口气。
How you feeling?
你感觉怎么样？
Gosh, I'm pissed off at that phone call I had, or I'm annoyed at this.
天哪，我对那个电话很生气，或者说我对此很恼火。
Okay, how do you want to be seen and talked about and experienced in that studio today?
好吧，今天你希望在那个工作室里被人如何看待、谈论和体验？
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
Do you see how even saying that, it makes you stand still and reflect?
你有没有发现，即使这么说，它也会让你停下来反思？
Well, I want to be this cool dude who's compassionate and creative.
嗯，我想成为一个富有同情心和创造力的酷家伙。
Okay.
好的。
Well, what do you need to get there?
嗯，你需要什么才能到达那里？
And then you walk in, and all of a sudden, you have attributed the emotion to its actual cause, which is that stupid phone call, whatever happened, and you're no longer going to displace that or project it or take it out on somebody else.
然后你走进去，突然之间，你把这种情绪归因于它的实际原因，那就是那个愚蠢的电话，无论发生了什么，你不再会取代它或投射它或把它发泄在别人身上。
Do you think that would be a useful process for kids, couples, leaders to use?
您认为这对孩子、夫妻、领导者来说是一个有用的流程吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Definitely.
绝对是。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
How long did it take?
花了多长时间？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Seconds.
秒。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
There you go.
就这样吧。
This is not obsession with feeling.
这不是对感觉的痴迷。
This is at opportune moments.
这是在适当的时刻。
When I come home from work, I work long hours, and I'm tired, and I'm irritable a lot of the time.
当我下班回家时，我工作时间很长，我很累，而且很多时候我很烦躁。
I just am.
我就是这样。
I got to switch my mindset to be the best version of myself as a husband.
作为丈夫，我必须转变心态，成为最好的自己。
So that's what we're trying to help people do.
这就是我们正在努力帮助人们做的事情。
And I don't want people to be confused by that.
我不希望人们对此感到困惑。
I want real clarity.
我想要真正的清晰度。
It's articulating what your experience is, recognizing that it may be helpful.
它阐明了您的经历，并认识到它可能会有所帮助。
If it's helpful, you got nothing to do.
如果它有帮助，你就没什么可做的了。
Congratulations.
恭喜。
If it's not going to be helpful, you need to think about those strategies.
如果这没有帮助，您需要考虑这些策略。
Is it labeling it?
是不是贴上标签了？
Maybe.
也许吧。
Is it taking the breath?
是在呼吸吗？
Maybe.
也许吧。
There have been times I've taken 15 deep breaths, and I'm still irritable.
有几次我已经深呼吸了15次，但我仍然很烦躁。
I need a new strategy.
我需要一个新的策略。
I need to call a good friend and just say, "Hey, Doug, I'm really struggling with this right now.
我需要打电话给一个好朋友，然后说：“嘿，道格，我现在真的很挣扎。
You got some thoughts?" Not a problem.
你有什么想法吗？”没问题。
Getting social support is not weak.
获得社会支持并不弱。
It's smart.
它很聪明。
Maybe I need to take another walk around the block to just decompress.
也许我需要绕着街区再走一走才能减压。
Maybe I got a really shitty night's sleep, and I just need to recognize that I'm never going to be the best version of myself, no matter how hard I try, because I haven't replenished the resources of my brain to be the best version of myself.
也许我晚上睡得很糟糕，我只需要认识到，无论我多么努力，我永远不会成为最好的自己，因为我还没有补充大脑的资源来成为最好的自己。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's an unfortunate reality, but tap water often contains contaminants that negatively impact our health.
这是一个不幸的现实，但自来水通常含有对我们的健康产生负面影响的污染物。
In fact, a 2020 study by the Environmental Working Group estimated that more than 200 million Americans are exposed to PFAS chemicals, also known as forever chemicals, through drinking of tap water.
事实上，环境工作组 2020 年的一项研究估计，超过 2 亿美国人通过饮用自来水接触到 PFAS 化学物质（也称为永久化学物质）。
These forever chemicals are linked to serious health issues such as hormone disruption, gut microbiome disruption, fertility issues, and many other health problems.
这些永久性化学物质与严重的健康问题有关，例如激素紊乱、肠道微生物组破坏、生育问题和许多其他健康问题。
The Environmental Working Group has also shown that over 122 million Americans drink tap water with high levels of chemicals known to cause cancer.
环境工作组还表明，超过 1.22 亿美国人饮用的自来水含有大量已知致癌化学物质。
It's for all these reasons that I'm thrilled to have Rorra as a sponsor of this podcast.
出于所有这些原因，我很高兴 Rorra 作为这个播客的赞助商。
I've been using the Rorra countertop system for almost a year now.
我使用 Rorra 台面系统已经快一年了。
Rorra's filtration technology removes harmful substances, including endocrine disruptors and disinfection byproducts, while preserving beneficial minerals like magnesium and calcium.
Rorra 的过滤技术可去除有害物质，包括内分泌干扰物和消毒副产物，同时保留镁和钙等有益矿物质。
It requires no installation or plumbing, it's built from medical-grade stainless steel, and its sleek design fits beautifully on your countertop.
它不需要安装或管道，由医用级不锈钢制成，其时尚的设计非常适合您的台面。
In fact, I consider it a welcome addition to my kitchen.
事实上，我认为它对我的厨房来说是一个受欢迎的补充。
It looks great, and the water is delicious.
看起来很棒，水也很美味。
If you'd like to try Rorra, you can go to rorra.com/huberman and get an exclusive discount.
如果您想尝试 Rorra，可以访问 rorra.com/huberman 并获得独家折扣。
Again, that's Rorra, R-O-R-R-A.com/huberman.
再说一次，那是 Rorra，R-O-R-R-A.com/huberman。
I love it, and I've two reflections I'd love your reflections on.
我喜欢它，并且我有两个想法希望您能提出看法。
The first one is positive states and emotions that are also dangerous.
第一个是积极的状态和情绪，但它们也是危险的。
When people are feeling over-affiliative, over-comfortable, they sometimes say things that get them into real trouble.
当人们感到过度依附、过度舒适时，他们有时会说出一些让自己陷入真正麻烦的话。
They either disclose things, or they make jokes that later they pay-
他们要么揭露事情，要么开玩笑，然后他们付钱——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the price for.
的价格。
This is, I think, maybe not as common as anger and sadness and anxiety, but given that some very prominent, very, very smart people I've seen completely destroy their careers by, it used to be called tweeting.
我认为，这可能不像愤怒、悲伤和焦虑那么常见，但考虑到我见过的一些非常杰出、非常、非常聪明的人完全毁掉了他们的职业生涯，它过去被称为推文。
You go, "This is crazy." This person, actually a chair of psychiatry, I'm not going to beat around the bush here-
你会说：“这太疯狂了。”这个人，其实是精神病学的主席，我就不在这里拐弯抹角了——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
was fired for saying something that was totally, it was actually inappropriate and lame and stupid.
因为说了一些完全不恰当、蹩脚和愚蠢的话而被解雇。
And you just go, but this person is clearly intelligent.
你就走吧，但这人显然很聪明。
They're the chair of an Ivy League school in psychiatry.
他们是常春藤联盟精神病学学校的院长。
And you say, "Well, what happened?" And what was interesting to me were the tweets leading up to it.
你说：“好吧，发生了什么事？”对我来说有趣的是导致它的推文。
You could say he was showing his true self, but there was this sort of ease and comfort around joking.
可以说他是在展现真实的自己，但玩笑中却有一种轻松自在的感觉。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there's certain jokes you just don't make.
有些笑话是你不能开的。
And so I think what you're describing is equally important for not overstepping, not hurting oneself or other people.
所以我认为你所描述的对于不越界、不伤害自己或他人同样重要。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Activation is activation.
激活就是激活。
So your heart rate and your different chemicals get released when you're super excited and when you're anxious.
因此，当您超级兴奋和焦虑时，您的心率和不同的化学物质就会被释放。
Activation might be the same.
激活可能是相同的。
The psychology of it is different, right?
心理是不一样的吧？
One is anticipation of positive things.
一是对积极事物的期待。
One is anticipation of the negative things.
一是对负面事物的预期。
And of course, emotions drive our thinking, our decision-making, everything.
当然，情绪驱动着我们的思考、决策以及一切。
So how many of us have made a mistake when we were too excited when we were young?
那么我们有多少人在年轻时过于兴奋而犯了一个错误呢？
We won't go into those stories now.
我们现在不讨论这些故事。
Excitement without regulation is not helpful.
没有调节的兴奋是没有帮助的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
It's funny because you tell that, and then going back to the school situation in a minute, that's a big problem with a lot of teachers.
这很有趣，因为你这么说，然后马上回到学校的情况，这对很多老师来说都是一个大问题。
They're like, "The kid is so excited.
他们说：“这孩子太兴奋了。
They're just going to see grandma after school, and they can't stop talking about it all day long, and it's driving me crazy." So positive emotions can be a pain in the butt, too.
他们只是放学后去看奶奶，整天就不停地谈论这件事，这让我发疯。”因此，积极的情绪也可能令人痛苦。
But they're afraid that they don't want to squelch the kid's excitement And I say, "Well, let's talk about it.
但他们担心不想压制孩子的兴奋 我说：“好吧，我们来谈谈吧。
What do you think?" This is the easiest solution I came up with on the spot.
你觉得怎么样？”这是我当场想到的最简单的解决方案。
I said, "What's the challenge?" He goes, "Well, he can't stop talking about going to see his grandmother." I said, "Well, he must love his grandmother.
我说：“挑战是什么？”他说：“好吧，他一直在谈论要去看他的祖母。”我说：“嗯，他一定很爱他的祖母。
That's a great thing.
这是一件很棒的事情。
Have you given him an opportunity to stand up in the front of the class to just tell everybody how excited he is and just let him get it out?" "What do you mean?
你有没有给他机会站在全班同学面前，告诉大家他有多兴奋，然后让他说出来？” “你什么意思？
You want me to give him the throne?" I said, "Yeah, I want you to try this out.
你想让我把王位让给他吗？”我说：“是的，我想让你尝试一下。
I want you to let him when he's like, 'La, la, la, la, la,' he can't stop talking about it, I want you to say, 'Johnny, I'm going to give you a minute to get up and tell everybody how excited you are, but then we're going to go back to math.
我希望你让他这样，当他‘啦，啦，啦，啦，啦’时，他无法停止谈论它，我希望你说，‘约翰尼，我要给你一分钟的时间站起来，告诉大家你有多兴奋，但然后我们要回到数学上。
We're going to go back to science.' And let me know how that works." And of course, two weeks later, I go back and visit.
我们将回到科学。让我知道这是如何运作的。”当然，两周后，我回去拜访。
She's like, "You're a magician." I'm like, "I'm not a magician.
她说：“你是个魔术师。”我想，“我不是魔术师。
He just needed an outlet for his emotions.
他只是需要一个发泄情绪的出口。
Give the kid the one minute to just tell everybody how excited he is, but also let him know that the expectations that I have for you are not changing.
给孩子一分钟的时间告诉每个人他有多兴奋，但也要让他知道我对你们的期望不会改变。
Just because you're excited about going to see grandma doesn't mean you don't have to focus." That's the magic of the work.
仅仅因为你对去看奶奶感到兴奋，并不意味着你不需要集中注意力。”这就是这项工作的魔力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Be a channel, not a dam.
成为渠道，而不是水坝。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
There you go.
就这样吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I didn't make that up.
这不是我编造的。
I learned that when I was a camp counselor in Yosemite.
我是在优胜美地担任营地辅导员时了解到这一点的。
Back then, we didn't have concepts of ADHD.
那时，我们还没有多动症的概念。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You got a kid that back then, you would just be like, "Oh, this kid is out of control." He wasn't harming anybody.
那时你有一个孩子，你会说，“哦，这孩子失控了。”他没有伤害任何人。
He just would not settle down.
他就是不肯安定下来。
You can't just say, "Hey, sit down." That kid would always be getting in trouble, get sent home.
你不能只是说：“嘿，坐下。”那孩子总是惹麻烦，被送回家。
So you give them an opportunity to do something-
所以你给他们一个机会做某事——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but then you have to let them settle down.
但你必须让他们安定下来。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Likewise, for the kid that was more creative and less physical, if your entire bunk was a bunch of kids who were super physical, that always would happen.
同样，对于一个更有创造力、更少体力的孩子来说，如果你的整个铺位都是一群超级体力的孩子，那么这种情况总会发生。
But then you'd find out this kid who had something of value to share with the other kids, and then it would establish his place in this group.
但随后你会发现这个孩子有一些有价值的东西可以与其他孩子分享，然后这就会确立他在这个群体中的地位。
There's a very weird thing happening lately online, which is this obsession with the '90s.
最近网上发生了一件很奇怪的事情，那就是对 90 年代的痴迷。
I grew up in the '90s, so a teen in the '90s.
我在 90 年代长大，所以是 90 年代的青少年。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
When they used to.
当他们过去的时候。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there's an example that I saw recently that I think is really relevant to what you're describing.
我最近看到一个例子，我认为它与您所描述的内容非常相关。
It was a picture of a classroom sitting around listening to a radio.
那是一张教室里坐着听广播的照片。
I remember doing this.
我记得这样做过。
It was an actual picture, and it said, "When the Challenger space shuttle blew up, we all listened to it with our teachers," because we were listening to that-
这是一张真实的图片，上面写着，“当挑战者号航天飞机爆炸时，我们都和老师一起听了”，因为我们正在听——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
space shuttle launch.
航天飞机发射。
"And then afterwards, we went back to our lesson plan.
“然后，我们又回到了我们的课程计划。
We didn't process it for weeks and weeks." And someone said, "Gosh, I miss the '90s." Now, my school is a little bit different.
我们好几周都没有处理它。”有人说：“天啊，我怀念 90 年代。”现在，我的学校有点不同了。
I actually remember the teacher going around the room the next day and asking people if they had anything they wanted to share, and people would share their thoughts, and then one kid said, "I heard they found a foot." And then she was like, "Okay, Garrett, settle down." Some kids were being a bit morbid and stuff.
我实际上记得第二天老师在房间里走来走去，问人们是否有什么想分享的，人们会分享他们的想法，然后一个孩子说，“我听说他们找到了一只脚。”然后她说：“好吧，加勒特，安定下来。”有些孩子有点病态之类的。
Maybe she shouldn't have done that.
也许她不应该那样做。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there was an opportunity, but I think that was the last it was ever discussed.
但有一个机会，但我认为这是最后一次讨论。
And we witnessed with our ears, it's not the same as seeing it, but we witnessed with our ears a bunch of people blowing up.
我们用耳朵见证了，这和亲眼所见不一样，但是我们亲眼目睹了一群人炸毁。
And it is true.
这是真的。
It was like, okay, this happened.
就像，好吧，这件事发生了。
This is tragic.
这是悲剧性的。
We're going to talk about it for a bit, and then we're not going to talk about it anymore.
我们先讨论一下，然后就不再讨论了。
I'd love your thoughts on the picture I just laid out.
我很想听听你对我刚刚展示的图片的想法。
What happened, what's happening now, this kind of emphasis on let's get back to when things were not as coddled.
发生了什么，现在正在发生什么，这种强调让我们回到事情不那么娇生惯养的时候。
I'm just curious what your thoughts are.
我只是好奇你的想法是什么。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
We were talking about this a little while ago.
不久前我们正在讨论这个问题。
The world that kids are growing up in now is different.
现在孩子们成长的世界已经不同了。
It is a different world.
这是一个不同的世界。
I was not thinking about climate change when I was a kid.
当我还是个孩子的时候，我并没有考虑过气候变化。
I really didn't worry about who was president or not president and whatever's going on politically.
我真的不担心谁是总统或不是总统以及政治上发生的事情。
I wasn't thinking about wars as much as people are thinking about right now.
我并没有像人们现在思考的那样思考战争。
I wasn't thinking about artificial intelligence and technology is going to take over my career.
我并没有想到人工智能和技术会接管我的职业生涯。
So there are real concerns that high school kids tell me they're feeling, and it's really causing them a lot of stress.
因此，高中生告诉我他们的感受确实令人担忧，这确实给他们带来了很大的压力。
We haven't created solutions.
我们还没有创建解决方案。
We're not teaching them how to manage it.
我们没有教他们如何管理它。
We're going to have to learn how to manage it in this world we're living in.
我们必须学习如何在我们生活的世界中管理它。
So I do think the challenge is there.
所以我确实认为挑战是存在的。
I just want to say one thing that's related, which is this artificial intelligence piece that is obviously prominent right now in society, which people are freaked out about for some reasons and thrilled about for other reasons.
我只想说一件相关的事情，那就是这个人工智能作品在当今社会中显然很突出，人们因某些原因而感到害怕，又因其他原因而感到兴奋。
The thing that I'm most concerned about is this, is that about 20% of adolescents now report using technology, AI, as a therapist, as a companion.
我最关心的是，大约 20% 的青少年现在表示使用人工智能技术作为治疗师、伴侣。
Now, do I think you can get advice from AI about stress?
现在，我认为你可以从人工智能那里得到有关压力的建议吗？
Definitely.
确实。
Do I think it's going to help?
我认为这会有帮助吗？
A little bit.
一点点。
Do I want people to be in relationship with a chatbot?
我希望人们与聊天机器人建立关系吗？
Absolutely not.
绝对不是。
And here's the deal.
事情就是这样。
When I was a kid who was being bullied and spit on in the bus and my head being banged in the windows, and I came off the bus, what I needed was a human being to say, "I love you," a human being to grab my hand, a human being to say, "We're going to get through this together." There's no way that technology can replace that.
当我还是个孩子的时候，在公共汽车上被人欺负、被人吐口水，我的头被撞在车窗上，当我下了公共汽车时，我需要的是一个人说：“我爱你”，一个人抓住我的手，一个人说：“我们将一起度过这一切。”技术无法取代它。
And I would argue that this obsession with technology to solve our emotional problems is a symptom of the thing we started talking about from the beginning, which is this fear of intimacy, this fear of connection, this fear of being present with people's emotions.
我认为，这种对技术来解决我们的情感问题的痴迷是我们从一开始就开始谈论的事情的一个症状，这就是对亲密关系的恐惧，对联系的恐惧，对与人们的情感存在的恐惧。
It's so scary for parents to be with their kids' emotions.
对于父母来说，面对孩子的情绪是非常可怕的。
They're, "I never learned how to deal with my anxiety.
他们是，“我从来没有学会如何应对我的焦虑。
I can't deal with my kids' anxiety.
我无法应对孩子们的焦虑。
I'd rather not know that they're feeling anxious." And then I said, "Do you want your kid married to a chatbot?" And so the real issue, in my humble opinion, is that we are cultivating more and more disconnection.
我不想知道他们感到焦虑。”然后我说，“你想让你的孩子嫁给一个聊天机器人吗？”因此，以我的拙见，真正的问题是我们正在培养越来越多的脱节。
And I think about this developmentally, and I don't think, in general I was stressed out as a kid, and I was at the age where video games were becoming popular and I got that first little football game.
我从发展的角度思考这个问题，我不认为，总的来说，我小时候压力很大，而且我正处于电子游戏变得流行的年龄，我玩了第一个小型足球游戏。
I could spend 10 hours a day on that.
我每天可以花 10 个小时在上面。
That was my way of not being in the real world, of not dealing with my challenges, of my parents not connecting with me.
这是我不身处现实世界、不应对挑战、父母不与我联系的方式。
Then I got a Walkman, and then the internet came, and then I got email, and then I got social media, and now it's AI.
然后我有了随身听，然后互联网出现了，然后我有了电子邮件，然后我有了社交媒体，现在是人工智能。
This is just an endless trajectory of outside influences that are pulling us away from being in relationship.
这只是外部影响的无尽轨迹，使我们远离恋爱关系。
And, I think I wouldn't say this obviously I wouldn't say this publicly, this is a podcast, is that I never thought evolution can move so quickly, but I do feel that way all of a sudden, what's happening now, this chronic disconnection.
而且，我想我显然不会这么说，我不会公开这么说，这是一个播客，我从来没有想过进化可以发展得如此之快，但我确实突然有这种感觉，现在正在发生的事情，这种长期的脱节。
And kids are preferring to text instead of to communicate with their friends.
孩子们更喜欢发短信而不是与朋友交流。
There's research, you know, anxiety, stress, and depression are increasing consistently, and it comes back to connection and strategies.
有研究表明，焦虑、压力和抑郁正在持续增加，这又回到了联系和策略上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
A good friend of mine who's a geneticist said it takes a very long time to evolve-
我的一个好朋友是一位遗传学家，他说进化需要很长时间-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a species.
一个物种。
It doesn't take very long to devolve a species.
一个物种的进化并不需要很长时间。
You can crash a species very quickly.
你可以很快地摧毁一个物种。
In terms of people feeling overwhelmed and saying, "I can't do anything right now because of what's happening in the world." Uh, I remember when I was an undergraduate, the '90s were a pretty peaceful time.
人们感到不知所措并说：“由于世界上正在发生的事情，我现在什么也做不了。”呃，我记得我读本科的时候，九十年代是一个相当平静的时期。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, we had Gulf War and things like that-
我的意思是，我们经历了海湾战争和类似的事情-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but relatively speaking.
但相对而言。
And, uh, the professor whose lab I worked in told me, this was in Santa Barbara, where they burned the bank down during the Vietnam War protests, but he said that in the early '70s, uh, very early '70s and late '60s, that he'd be giving a lecture, he was a young professor, and students would just stand up, "What about the war-
而且，呃，我工作的实验室的教授告诉我，这是在圣巴巴拉，他们在越南战争抗议期间烧毁了银行，但他说，在 70 年代初，呃，70 年代初和 60 年代末，他会做演讲，他是一位年轻的教授，学生们会站起来，“那战争呢——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in Vietnam?" And he's like, "This is a physiology class.
在越南？”他说：“这是生理学课。
We're talking about this..." And they'd say, "What about..." And the students would start protesting.
我们正在谈论这个......”他们会说，“那......”学生们会开始抗议。
So this is not a really new phenomenon.
所以这并不是一个真正的新现象。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I agree.
我同意。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, this was happening.
我的意思是，这件事正在发生。
People feeling overwhelmed, people feeling like the campus was theirs, they're gonna make noise.
人们感到不知所措，人们感觉校园是他们的，他们会发出噪音。
I'm not justifying unlawful protest.
我并不是为非法抗议辩护。
I'm certainly not justifying any kind of protest where certain students are being restricted.
我当然不会为某些学生受到限制的任何形式的抗议辩护。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm fundamentally opposed to that.
我从根本上反对这一点。
But this notion that people are feeling overwhelmed, and young people are full of energy, you know, and they want people to know how overwhelmed they feel and how angry they feel.
但这种观念认为，人们感到不知所措，年轻人充满活力，你知道，他们希望人们知道他们感到多么不知所措，感到多么愤怒。
But in the backdrop, the conveyor's moving forward.
但在背景中，传送带正在向前移动。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I agree.
我同意。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I think that in order for people to feel like...
但我认为为了让人们感觉...
And this comes from the article that was written by you.
这来自你写的文章。
Uh, you quoted a comment.
呃，你引用了一条评论。
Someone said, "We're not overreacting, we're under-reacting." So in order for people to feel heard, I want to double-click on that comment, but in order for people to feel really heard and understood in their reaction, I think it's also important that our society just can't sit around protesting all day and we can't collapse, we can't dissolve into a puddle of our own tears.
有人说：“我们不是反应过度，而是反应不足。”因此，为了让人们感到被倾听，我想双击该评论，但为了让人们在他们的反应中感到真正被倾听和理解，我认为同样重要的是，我们的社会不能整天坐着抗议，我们不能崩溃，我们不能溶解在自己的泪水中。
And I do want to talk to you about the ways to f- that you're formalizing this work.
我确实想和你谈谈如何使这项工作正式化。
Because one thing that I think is wonderful that's happened in the last 10 years or so is that we've moved from the language of consciousness and mindfulness, which I think are great terms-
因为我认为过去十年左右发生的一件很棒的事情是，我们已经不再使用意识和正念的语言，我认为这是很棒的术语——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Of course
当然
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to long exhale breathing, to the notion that stress can be adaptive, Ali Crum's lab, it can make us better, to an understanding that there's a way of working with your physiology to be stronger and yet acknowledge your physiology.
长呼气，压力可以适应的观念，阿里·克拉姆的实验室，它可以让我们变得更好，理解有一种方法可以与你的生理机能一起变得更强壮，同时承认你的生理机能。
"I'm feeling stressed.
“我感到压力很大。
Now I need to bring my stress down.
现在我需要减轻压力。
I'm exhausted.
我累坏了。
I need to figure out a way to have more energy, work on sleep," et cetera.
我需要找到一种方法来获得更多能量，改善睡眠，”等等。
I don't think it's happened yet, but I think it's starting that psychology needs the same kind of organizational principles so that people can move past narcissism, gaslighting, claiming everyone that they don't like is being abusive.
我认为这还没有发生，但我认为心理学开始需要同样的组织原则，这样人们就可以摆脱自恋、煤气灯、声称他们不喜欢的每个人都在虐待。
And there's been a sort of psychological, I don't want to say collapse, but I don't think people know how to navigate this space.
并且存在一种心理，我不想说崩溃，但我认为人们不知道如何驾驭这个空间。
Whereas I think mindfulness, consciousness, and the idea that we need to take care of our sleep, we need exercise, we need sunlight, I and others have worked very hard to try and get people to understand, like, you need to work with your body.
虽然我认为正念、意识以及我们需要照顾我们的睡眠、我们需要锻炼、我们需要阳光的想法，但我和其他人非常努力地试图让人们理解，比如，你需要与你的身体一起工作。
You're not trying to conquer your body, but you do need to nudge it and sometimes push it.
你并不是想征服你的身体，但你确实需要轻推它，有时甚至推动它。
You don't want to be that person 10 hours on the treadmill-
你不想成为那个在跑步机上 10 小时的人-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
who's suppressing everything.
谁在压制一切。
And I think where psychology has been a little bit self-defeating is that there's a lot of language.
我认为心理学有点弄巧成拙的地方在于有很多语言。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it can start to feel like, "Ugh, this is a lot.
它可能会开始让人感觉，“呃，这太多了。
I got shit to do." So along those lines, if you are told, "So-and-so's gaslighting me, they're a narcissist," that, "Fascism is taking over-
我还有事要做。”因此，沿着这些思路，如果你被告知，“某某人在给我加油，他们是个自恋者”，“法西斯主义正在接管——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and, like, you expect me to not be outraged?" Quote, "We're not overreacting, we're under-reacting."
而且，你希望我不会生气吗？”引用：“我们不是反应过度，而是反应不足。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're a martial artist.
你是一个武术家。
You're a very staid guy.
你是一个非常稳重的人。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
There you go.
就这样吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Where do you start?
你从哪里开始？
What do you say to that person?
你对那个人说什么？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Well, I think we have to ask them if they're being effective.
嗯，我想我们必须问问他们是否有效。
And so is whatever you're doing leading to the change that you want it to have?
那么，你所做的一切是否会带来你想要的改变呢？
And if they know about emotions, I don't know about you, but when someone is yelling and screaming at me, I shut down.
如果他们了解情绪，我不了解你，但当有人对我大喊大叫时，我就会闭嘴。
I'm no longer present.
我已经不在场了。
And so they're actually not getting their goal achieved.
所以他们实际上没有实现他们的目标。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
If they're asking me to do something different or they're trying to help me understand something, if they can't communicate in a way that I can understand it and I want to actually listen, it's not going anywhere.
如果他们要求我做一些不同的事情，或者他们试图帮助我理解某些事情，如果他们无法以我能理解的方式进行交流并且我想真正倾听，那么它不会有任何进展。
So I think that people need to recognize that I'm a person who is both/and.
所以我认为人们需要认识到我是一个兼而有之的人。
So just to give you a concrete example, our program, RULER, which is the school-based work that we do, is in all the schools in one district of Harlem, New York.
举个具体的例子，我们的项目“RULER”，即我们所做的校本工作，已在纽约哈莱姆区的所有学校中开展。
21 schools, thousands of kids, the teachers, the leaders.
21所学校，数千名孩子，老师，领导。
The deputy superintendent, Dawn, is my former student.
副院长黎明是我以前的学生。
They're facing food scarcity These are really troubled families in many instances.
他们正面临粮食短缺。在许多情况下，这些家庭确实陷入了困境。
They're facing, obviously, racism.
显然，他们面临着种族主义。
They're facing poverty, home insecurity.
他们面临贫困、家庭不安全。
Of course, I want to solve for that problem.
当然，我想解决这个问题。
I would do anything I could to make sure everybody has a meal.
我会尽我所能确保每个人都有饭吃。
At the same time, every one of those kids is being dropped off at school, and we're expecting that kid to thrive for eight hours a day in that classroom.
与此同时，这些孩子中的每一个都会被送去学校，我们希望那个孩子每天在教室里度过八个小时，茁壮成长。
How could I not teach that kid skills to thrive?
我怎么能不教那个孩子成长的技能呢？
I have to.
我必须。
There's no obligation.
没有义务。
It's my moral obligation to help that kid be the best version of themselves, no matter what their background is, no matter what their circumstances are.
帮助那个孩子成为最好的自己是我的道德义务，无论他们的背景是什么，无论他们的处境如何。
It doesn't mean that I'm not also thinking about that.
这并不意味着我没有也在考虑这一点。
And I think that people in our society today, this is part of that article, is that we're so focused on the big change.
我认为当今社会的人们，这是那篇文章的一部分，我们非常关注重大变革。
Many of us have very little control over the big change.
我们中的许多人对重大变化几乎没有控制权。
I feel blessed that I have some control over the lives of thousands of kids that are waking up every morning and trying to be the best version of themselves.
我感到很幸运，因为我可以控制成千上万的孩子的生活，他们每天早上醒来并努力成为最好的自己。
But they need help.
但他们需要帮助。
They need strategy.
他们需要策略。
They need teachers who are well, who can be the best versions of themselves for them.
他们需要优秀的老师，能够成为他们最好的自己。
They need leaders who care about the teachers.
他们需要关心教师的领导者。
And so I think that we have to find in our own way, I know my way, and I sleep well at night thinking I'm doing important work to support people in having wellbeing.
因此，我认为我们必须找到自己的方式，我知道自己的方式，而且我晚上睡得很好，认为我正在做重要的工作来支持人们获得福祉。
It doesn't mean I don't think about the larger issues.
这并不意味着我不考虑更大的问题。
But I do think that the more well people are, the better they're able to be at problem-solving around the larger societal issues.
但我确实认为，人们的健康状况越好，他们就越能更好地解决更大的社会问题。
I don't think a dysregulated society is going to solve its problems.
我不认为一个失调的社会能够解决其问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I agree completely, and I'm grateful for the work you're doing.
我完全同意，并且我很感谢你所做的工作。
I feel like that, again, I just draw the parallel to what's happened around sleep, stress regulation, exercise, nutrition.
我再次觉得，我只是将睡眠、压力调节、锻炼、营养方面发生的事情进行了类比。
I feel like there's always resistance at the beginning.
我觉得一开始总是有阻力。
Like, "What is this stuff?
就像，“这是什么东西？
I don't want a morning routine.
我不想早上例行公事。
I just want to get up and do my thing.
我只想站起来做我的事。
I don't want to hear that alcohol is bad for me."
我不想听到酒精对我有害。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When I was coming up in academia, alcohol was everywhere.
当我进入学术界时，酒精无处不在。
The happy hour-
欢乐时光——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it was the source of a lot of problems.
这是许多问题的根源。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I was never a big drinker, so for me, it was a great opportunity to go do something else.
我从来都不是一个酗酒者，所以对我来说，这是一个去做其他事情的好机会。
But if you didn't drink with your senior colleagues, it was kind of like people were like, "What's wrong with you?" Or something like that.
但如果你不和资深同事一起喝酒，人们就会问：“你怎么了？”或者类似的东西。
I think what causes a tide change is when, first of all, someone creates a structure around things that science shows work.
我认为导致潮流变化的原因是，首先有人围绕科学证明有效的事物创建了一个结构。
You've been doing that, and I love that you're taking this broader, through books, through podcasts, into the school districts.
你们一直在这样做，我喜欢你们通过书籍、播客将这一点扩展到学区。
We'll talk more about the ways you're doing it, ways people can incorporate some of this.
我们将更多地讨论您正在做的事情以及人们可以将其中的一些内容结合起来的方式。
But I think at some point, a few or more brave individuals start incorporating a structure like, "Oh, wow, maybe Matt Walker's right.
但我认为在某个时候，一些或更多勇敢的人开始采用这样的结构，“哦，哇，也许马特·沃克是对的。
Maybe sleep when you're dead is not a good philosophy." And now the mindset is, well, if you sleep, you're smarter.
也许死后睡觉并不是一个好的哲学。”现在的心态是，如果你睡觉，你就会更聪明。
If you're smarter, you're more effective.
如果你更聪明，你就会更有效率。
And so the people who are doing best are incorporating a structure.
因此，做得最好的人正在整合一个结构。
And then I also think inevitably what happens, and we're kind of edging up against this now, at least in the sorts of things that I teach, is a pushback.
然后我也认为不可避免地会发生什么，我们现在正在面临这种情况，至少在我教授的各种事情上，是一种阻力。
Like, okay, enough structure.
就像，好吧，足够的结构。
We need some freedom.
我们需要一些自由。
I'm sensing that now.
我现在感觉到了。
People are like, "How many things am I supposed to do?"
人们会问，“我应该做多少事情？”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I agree, yeah.
我同意，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the idea is, you're not supposed to do them all.
这个想法是，你不应该做所有这些。
You're supposed to do what you need, right?
你应该做你需要做的事，对吗？
And I acknowledge that that's happening now.
我承认这种情况现在正在发生。
That's the contour of sort of the areas that I've worked in and tried to share.
这就是我曾经工作过并试图分享的一些领域的轮廓。
In the area that you work in or trying to share, and I realize there's overlap, I feel like the structure is there.
在你工作或试图分享的领域，我意识到存在重叠，我觉得结构就在那里。
I think great examples of people, kids and adults, who are really not just succeeding, not just getting by, but are really kicking butt by virtue of doing the things that you're talking about, that's what's going to lead to a systemic change.
我认为，人们、孩子和成年人都是很好的例子，他们不仅取得了成功，也不仅仅只是勉强度日，而且通过做你所说的事情而真正取得了成功，这将导致系统性的变革。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Kind of agreement.
某种协议。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think about Steve Kerr talks about meditation.
我想起史蒂夫·科尔谈论冥想。
And he's Steve Kerr, so you're like, okay, people who like basketball are like, "This guy's a stud, and he meditates."
他是史蒂夫·科尔，所以你会说，好吧，喜欢篮球的人会说，“这家伙是个种马，而且他会冥想。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so meditation is no longer considered magic carpet stuff.
因此冥想不再被认为是魔毯的东西。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
For every one of these things, that's kind of how it is.
对于每一件事情来说，情况都是如此。
It's like breathwork, okay, I know Wim Hof, and Wim is a little bit eccentric.
这就像呼吸，好吧，我了解 Wim Hof，而且 Wim 有点古怪。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
People are like, "Oh yeah, breathe, exhale." That's like everyone does that now.
人们会说，“哦，是的，呼吸，呼气。”就像现在每个人都这样做一样。
So no one's going to be like, "Oh, now we're breathing?" And they're like, "But how much time do we have to spend breathing?" And so I think with what you're talking about, I feel like it's central to everything.
所以没有人会说，“哦，现在我们可以呼吸了吗？”他们会说，“但是我们需要花多少时间来呼吸？”所以我认为你所说的，我觉得它是一切的核心。
I actually worry about our species if we don't incorporate the sorts of things that you're talking about.
如果我们不将你所谈论的那些东西纳入其中，我实际上担心我们的物种。
You talk about the idea of regulating is not suppressing.
你所说的监管不是压制。
I think the concepts are critical and the practices are critical.
我认为概念很关键，实践也很关键。
So could you give us a couple examples of the concepts that are just core concepts?
那么您能给我们举几个核心概念的例子吗？
We started off this way, but-
我们是这样开始的，但是——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then maybe a few practical tools so that people can start to think about this in the same way that 10 years ago we might have talked about, like, "Hey, you think sleep when you're dead is working for you, but you're actually kind of an idiot when you don't sleep, and you're in a job that requires you to be smart, not an idiot." This kind of thing.
然后也许是一些实用的工具，这样人们就可以开始像十年前我们谈论的那样思考这个问题，比如，“嘿，你认为死后睡觉对你有用，但当你不睡觉时，你实际上是个白痴，而你从事的工作要求你聪明，而不是白痴。”这种事。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I think firstly, in my book, I have something called the dealing with feeling wheel, and this goes directly to what you're thinking about.
我认为首先，在我的书中，我有一个叫做“处理感觉轮”的东西，这直接涉及到你正在思考的事情。
When people are dysregulated, when parents are dealing with a kid, for example, who's dysregulated, they get desperate.
当人们失调时，例如，当父母与一个失调的孩子打交道时，他们会变得绝望。
"Let's take a deep breath.
“让我们深吸一口气。
Breathe, breathe.
呼吸，呼吸。
No, let's go for a walk.
不，我们去散步吧。
No, let's cook together.
不行，我们一起做饭吧。
No, let's play a game.
不，我们来玩个游戏吧。
No, let's do this." And you go crazy.
不，我们就这样做吧。”然后你就会发疯。
That's not helpful.
那没有帮助。
I'll give you an example from myself.
我给你举一个我自己的例子。
For a couple of months, I've been just, I have so much work, and I have not slept well.
这几个月来，我一直工作太多，睡得不好。
The last week, I've prioritized going to bed early.
上周，我优先考虑早睡。
I prioritize real dark, the darkened room, and I woke up today at 7:30.
我优先考虑真正的黑暗，黑暗的房间，我今天 7:30 醒来。
I was like, "Oh God, this is a miracle, 7:30.
我当时想，“天啊，这真是一个奇迹，7点30分。
It's the middle of the afternoon." And I feel energized today.
现在是下午了。”今天我感觉精力充沛。
I feel I'm in a good place.
我觉得我处于一个很好的位置。
And I've felt that way for a week now.
我已经有一周这样的感觉了。
I recognize I'm building new patterns for my sleep.
我认识到我正在为自己的睡眠建立新的模式。
It's no longer in my wheel a priority I figured it out.
我发现它不再是我的优先事项。
There are some days where I just feel I can't think straight.
有些日子我感觉自己无法正常思考。
I'm all over the place.
我到处都是。
I realize that I've been maybe on social media too much.
我意识到我可能在社交媒体上呆得太多了。
I realize I have 85 things on my to-do list, and I'm like, "Marc, you got to go back to your mindfulness work.
我意识到我的待办事项清单上有 85 件事，我说，“马克，你必须回去做你的正念工作。
You need some breathwork.
你需要一些呼吸。
You need to just sit, right?
你需要坐下来，对吧？
You need to take that space.
你需要占据那个空间。
You need to get to that hot yoga class.
你需要去参加热瑜伽课。
You need to do this.
你需要这样做。
You need this back into your routine." There are other days I sit around and think, "I'm so lonely.
你需要把它重新纳入你的日常生活中。”有时我会坐下来想：“我很孤独。
I don't talk to anybody anymore." I feel so whatever, and I'm like, "I need connection.
我不再和任何人说话了。”我觉得无论如何，我想，“我需要联系。
I'm desperate for connection." I think that's the way we have to look at it, that there are these components of our well-being and that are correlated and are the same as what we do to regulate our emotions.
我非常渴望建立联系。”我认为这就是我们看待它的方式，我们的幸福有这些组成部分，它们是相关的，并且与我们调节情绪的方式相同。
There's the self-awareness piece.
这是自我意识的一部分。
Am I at all paying attention to my emotions right now?
我现在有注意自己的情绪吗？
There's that breathwork piece.
这就是呼吸的片段。
There's the cognitive work.
还有认知工作。
There's the relational work.
还有关系工作。
There's the biology of it, the sleep, the nutrition, the physical activity.
有它的生物学、睡眠、营养、身体活动。
For example, one of the things that happened for me in writing this new book was that I became very committed to my own fitness.
例如，在我写这本新书时发生的一件事是我变得非常致力于自己的健身。
Martial arts was like teaching 10 karate classes a week.
武术就像每周教授 10 节空手道课程。
I was younger then.
那时我还年轻。
I was in the best shape of my life.
我正处于一生中最好的状态。
Then I got dumpy professor syndrome, and like, "I'm not getting on that stage looking that way anymore." I was like, "Whoa," and I made this major commitment.
然后我得了矮胖教授综合症，就像，“我再也不会以那样的方式登上舞台了。”我当时想，“哇”，我做出了这个重大承诺。
And one of the things that happened to me was that it became my go-to strategy for my overwhelm and stress while writing my book.
发生在我身上的一件事是，它成为我在写书时应对不知所措和压力的首选策略。
And I remember saying to myself one day, like, "Marc, you may not finish this book, but you're going to be in the best freaking shape of your life." And truthfully, it transformed my life.
我记得有一天我对自己说，“马克，你可能无法读完这本书，但你将会处于一生中最好的状态。”说实话，它改变了我的生活。
Now, here's why I'm telling you that story, because in the conversation with this friend Marco, who is a trainer, we started having these conversations around fitness identity and how it relates to emotional intelligence identity.
现在，这就是我告诉你这个故事的原因，因为在与这位教练朋友马可的对话中，我们开始围绕健身身份及其与情商身份的关系进行这些对话。
And I realized something magical, which is that now at 56, it's been four years that I've done my four workouts a week.
我意识到了一些神奇的事情，那就是，现在我已经 56 岁了，每周进行四次锻炼已经有四年了。
I haven't really missed a workout unless I'm on a vacation, but I'll still do something else.
除非我在度假，否则我并没有真正错过锻炼，但我仍然会做其他事情。
I cannot not exercise.
我不能不锻炼。
And this morning, just to be talking about coming on Huberman Lab, I'm like, I woke up at 7:30.
今天早上，只是为了谈论来到 Huberman 实验室，我想，我在 7:30 起床。
I'm like, "I got to get there by this time, but I can't work out.
我想，“我必须在这个时间到达那里，但我无法锻炼。
I have to work out before I go to Huberman.
在去胡伯曼之前我必须锻炼身体。
I can't show up not doing my workout." And I knew I would feel better.
我不能不锻炼就出现。”我知道我会感觉更好。
I knew I'd be more present.
我知道我会更加在场。
And I did my hour back workout.
我做了一个小时的背部锻炼。
But the point I'm really making here is that I identify as a person who exercises.
但我在这里真正想说的是，我认为自己是一个锻炼的人。
It's just who I am.
这就是我。
My vision for the world is that we cultivate people who identify as well-regulated.
我对世界的愿景是我们培养那些自我约束良好的人。
Because if you walk into a room thinking to yourself, "I got this.
因为如果你走进一个房间，心里想：“我明白了。
Nothing you can say can trigger me.
你说什么都无法触动我。
I can get through this," or, "I can manage my emotions," life is going to be completely different.
我可以度过这个难关”，或者“我可以管理我的情绪”，生活将会完全不同。
And that's why I end my book with this concept that people talk a lot about, like be the best self, and everybody's talking about their best selves.
这就是为什么我以人们经常谈论的这个概念来结束我的书，比如成为最好的自己，每个人都在谈论他们最好的自己。
But it really does relate to emotion regulation, and there's good research to support it, that you asked me for a concrete technique.
但它确实与情绪调节有关，并且有很好的研究支持它，你向我询问了具体的技术。
Well, this is that thing we call the meta moment.
嗯，这就是我们所说的元时刻。
And I cultivated this technique with my colleague, Robin.
我和我的同事罗宾一起培养了这种技术。
She was a therapist working with patients in New York City, and she's like, "I teach them all strategies, and then they go home, and they yell at each other." And I'm like, I'm a scientist working in schools, and everybody's like, "This is boring, and nobody wants to do this." I'm like, the motivation is not there.
她是一名在纽约市与病人一起工作的治疗师，她说，“我教他们所有的策略，然后他们回家，互相大喊大叫。”我想，我是一名在学校工作的科学家，每个人都会说，“这很无聊，没有人愿意这样做。”我想，动力不存在。
People don't see the benefit.
人们看不到好处。
People, they don't see that their life is going to be better.
人们，他们看不到自己的生活会变得更好。
They're going to make better choices, have better relationships, et cetera.
他们将做出更好的选择，拥有更好的关系等等。
So what's going to make a difference?
那么什么会有所作为呢？
Well, as we know, between stimulus and response, there is space.
嗯，正如我们所知，刺激和反应之间存在空间。
Okay, so what do I do to fill the space?
好吧，那我该怎么做才能填补这个空间呢？
Well, the first step is I got to sense that something's going on.
嗯，第一步是我必须感觉到有什么事情正在发生。
I got to be aware.
我必须意识到。
Wow, that just triggered me.
哇，这简直触发了我。
Wow, that was not cool.
哇，那可不太酷。
My automatic habitual response is going to be, "Who the F do you think you are?
我的自动习惯性反应是：“你以为你是谁？
Don't talk to me that way," or whatever it might be.
别这样对我说话，”或者诸如此类的。
Marc, who identifies as the most well-regulated person in the whole wide world, the feelings master, the emotional guru, he has a process.
马克，被认为是全世界最有规律的人，感情大师，情感大师，他有一个过程。
He automatically takes the breath.
他不由自主地屏住了呼吸。
He automatically builds a space.
他自动建造了一个空间。
He automatically takes a step back.
他自动后退了一步。
He does not go on that gut.
他不会凭直觉行事。
He says there's a better way.
他说有更好的办法。
But that's not enough.
但这还不够。
So now I have to think about my best version of myself in my role as a husband.
所以现在我必须考虑在作为丈夫的角色中我自己的最佳版本。
How do I want to be seen?
我希望别人如何看待我？
How do I want to be talked about?
我希望如何被谈论？
How do I want to be experienced?
我想获得怎样的体验？
In my role as a professor, in my role as a presenter, different roles, different selves.
在我作为教授的角色中，在我作为主持人的角色中，不同的角色，不同的自我。
And I've helped millions of people engage in this process, by the way, and when you build the space to think about your best self, what it does is it pulls you away from the trigger, and it brings you back to your values.
顺便说一句，我已经帮助数百万人参与了这个过程，当你建立一个空间来思考最好的自我时，它所做的就是让你远离触发点，让你回到自己的价值观。
And then through the lens of Marc, the director of the Center for Emotional Intelligence, he's a different dude.
在情商中心主任马克的镜头下，他是一个不同的人。
He's a totally different guy than Marc who grew up in New Jersey being bullied and is triggered.
他和马克是一个完全不同的人，马克在新泽西长大，经常被欺负并被触发。
Marc, who's a center director, is like Oz.
马克是一名中心主任，他就像奥兹一样。
He's a Yoda of emotional intelligence.
他是情商尤达大师。
Well, how would he respond to this moment?
那么，此时此刻他会作何反应呢？
This is a beautiful challenge.
这是一个美丽的挑战。
I love it.
我喜欢它。
And so my point is that we can do that for ourselves, we can help other people do it, we can do it in a moment ideally, we'll do it proactively so when you go home or when you come into work, you pause, you identify, and you think about the best version of yourself, and you enter in through that lens.
所以我的观点是，我们可以为自己做到这一点，我们可以帮助其他人做到这一点，我们可以在理想的情况下立即做到这一点，我们会主动去做，这样当你回家或上班时，你停下来，你确定，你思考自己最好的版本，然后你通过这个镜头进入。
My favorite story about this was, we teach this in schools, and this one kid, when people joke about things, you know they got it.
我最喜欢的故事是，我们在学校教这个，这个孩子，当人们开玩笑时，你知道他们明白了。
So I'm in this school and this teacher is like, "Mark, this stuff, it's really funny." I said, "What do you mean?" She goes, "Well, this kid was really not being kind to someone on the playground, and I called him out on it.
所以我在这所学校，这位老师就像，“马克，这个东西，真的很有趣。”我说：“你什么意思？”她说：“好吧，这个孩子在操场上对某人真的不太友善，我就斥责了他。
And he came over and I said, 'I need to know exactly what happened.' And the kid said, 'Mrs. Johnson, I'm going to tell you what happened, but I need you to take a meta moment first.'" The kid knew that if she were looking at what he had done through the best version of herself, she would respond differently.
他走过来，我说，“我需要确切地知道发生了什么。”孩子说：‘夫人。约翰逊，我要告诉你发生了什么事，但我需要你先冷静一下。’”这个孩子知道，如果她通过最好的自己来看待他所做的事情，她会有不同的反应。
That's the magic of the work.
这就是这项工作的魔力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I think the language around meta moment is something that, with your permission, I'm going to help propagate, because I do think languaging and labels is very-
好吧，我认为，在您的许可下，我将帮助传播有关元时刻的语言，因为我确实认为语言和标签非常-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
important in terms of getting useful tools out more broadly.
对于更广泛地获得有用的工具来说很重要。
Again, not to knock on the mindfulness meditation work-
再说一次，不要敲打正念冥想工作——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
No
否
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that goes back thousands of years, but it occurred to me at some point, there's genuine power for mental and physical health in these practices.
这可以追溯到几千年前，但我在某个时刻突然想到，这些练习对身心健康具有真正的力量。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yoga Nidra, et cetera.
瑜伽休息术等等。
And I had to have a conversation with myself and go, "You know what?
我必须和自己对话，然后说：“你知道吗？
I'm going to take some heat for this, but I'm not going to call it Yoga Nidra.
我会为此承受一些压力，但我不会称之为瑜伽休息术。
I'm going to call it non-sleep deep rest-
我将其称为非睡眠深度休息-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
so more people do it." And I apologize, but there was a reason.
所以更多的人这样做。”我很抱歉，但这是有原因的。
There's a reason to say this is the physiological sigh.
有理由说这是生理性叹息。
Eventually, now we know you can just do long exhale breathing, right?
最终，现在我们知道你可以做长呼气，对吧？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Principle's the same.
原理是一样的。
But languaging is so key for people to adopt these concepts, and they can't drink from the fire hose.
但语言对于人们接受这些概念至关重要，而且他们不能从消防水带里喝水。
This is also what I've realized.
这也是我所体会到的。
They can't take it all at once.
他们无法一下子接受这一切。
But you're building a curriculum for people.
但你正在为人们建立课程。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's so important.
这非常重要。
Also, I'm so struck by this, the link that you discovered and clearly embody of internalizing a fit person identification.
另外，我对此感到非常震惊，你发现的这个链接清楚地体现了内化合适的人的身份。
You're a coach of a team, you're not going to be a slovenly coach.
你是一支球队的教练，你不会成为一个不修边幅的教练。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're going to show that you did all this, and you could continue to do it-
你将证明你已经做到了这一切，并且你可以继续这样做-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
if your students and your players challenged you to, right?
如果你的学生和球员向你提出挑战，对吧？
Identifying with a certain emotional maturity-
认同一定的情感成熟度——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
regulation level, that is also key.
监管水平，这也是关键。
Because for myself, many years ago, I remember thinking, I don't miss workouts.
因为对于我自己来说，很多年前，我记得我在想，我不会错过锻炼。
I just decided.
我刚刚决定。
I just don't miss them.
我只是不想念他们。
To the point where-
到了这样的地步——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Exactly
正是如此
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
sometimes I probably should miss them.
有时我可能应该想念他们。
I probably overshot the mark at times.
有时我可能会超出标准。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I learned I don't train sick.
我了解到我不会带病训练。
I now take weeks off every once in a while.
我现在每隔一段时间就休息几周。
So those are structured around that.
所以这些都是围绕这一点构建的。
So it's not push to the point of self-destruction, but with having an emotional identity that you see in yourself and can live into, I think that's a beautiful thing.
所以这并不是把你逼到自我毁灭的地步，而是拥有一种你在自己身上看到并能够生活的情感认同，我认为这是一件美好的事情。
David Goggins talks about having to have the old Goggins and the new one in order to-
大卫·戈金斯谈到必须拥有旧戈金斯和新戈金斯才能——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
be the new one, because both live inside his head.
成为新的，因为两者都住在他的脑海里。
He sat in that very chair and explained both of them are in here, but he has to take actions to be one and not the other every single day.
他坐在那把椅子上，解释说他们都在这里，但他每天都必须采取行动，成为其中一个而不是另一个。
And I think as this language around what we're talking about evolves, I do think it's going to go really far and wide.
我认为，随着这种围绕我们正在讨论的内容的语言的发展，我确实认为它将会走得更远更广泛。
I have a theory right now, tell me where it's wrong, because it's almost certainly wrong.
我现在有一个理论，告诉我哪里错了，因为它几乎肯定是错的。
That many people are very in touch with their extreme emotions of anger, sadness, feeling like they're too woke, they're fascists, they're just in touch with the emotions.
许多人非常容易接触到愤怒、悲伤等极端情绪，感觉自己太清醒了，他们是法西斯主义者，他们只是接触到了这些情绪。
And then we're really good at putting labels on other people's identities.
然后我们真的很擅长给别人的身份贴上标签。
Right?
正确的？
They're a narcissist, they're a fascist-
他们是自恋者，他们是法西斯-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
they're extreme woke.
他们极度清醒。
But we don't really think about our own identity as much.
但我们并没有真正考虑自己的身份。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We're kind of lost in the emotions.
我们有点迷失在情感中。
And political parties, people usually know where they stand, but what would this look like to come up...
对于政党，人们通常知道他们的立场，但是这会是什么样子......
I'm not asking you to do this on the fly, but I'm asking you to do this on the fly.
我不是要求您即时执行此操作，而是要求您即时执行此操作。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
It's all right.
没关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Should we be thinking about emotional maturity, emotional intelligence?
我们应该考虑情感成熟度、情商吗？
Is there a word that we can internalize?
有没有一个词是我们可以内化的？
Like I'd like to be in shape.
就像我想保持身材一样。
I kind of know what that is.
我有点知道那是什么。
I want to be a certain amount of strength, certain amount of endurance, I want to be able to run for the plane and-
我想要有一定的力量，一定的耐力，我想要能够跑上飞机并且-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
not cough up a lung.
不咳肺。
I also want to be able to open the pickle jar.
我也希望能够打开泡菜罐。
I want to be able to go up the stairs without pain.
我希望能够毫无痛苦地爬楼梯。
I know I have a concept of what that is for me.
我知道我知道这对我来说意味着什么。
What is a label that works really well that people can start to fill in the bins of what it is to be an emotionally-
什么是一个真正有效的标签，让人们可以开始填充情感上的垃圾箱？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Intelligent
智能化
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
person?
人？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I think it's emotional intelligence because, again, we need concepts that are clear, that can be defined, that can be measured, and that demonstrate predictive validity.
我认为这是情商，因为我们需要清晰的、可以定义的、可以测量的、并且能够证明预测有效性的概念。
And so every one of the skills.
等等每一项技能。
I wrote a book on emotion regulation because that was the area that I wanted to focus on right now, because that is at the top of the hierarchy.
我写了一本关于情绪调节的书，因为这是我现在想要关注的领域，因为它位于层次结构的顶部。
At the end, it's what you do with the feelings.
最后，这就是你对感情所做的事情。
That's the regulation piece.
这就是监管部分。
But to do that, you need to recognize your feelings, understand them, label them, decide whether you want to express them or regulate.
但要做到这一点，你需要认识自己的感受，理解它们，给它们贴上标签，决定是要表达它们还是要调节它们。
It's the ruler framework.
这是标尺框架。
Emotion perception, yes, it's complicated, but at the end, it's about building relationships.
情绪感知，是的，它很复杂，但最终，它是关于建立关系的。
I can't know how you're feeling by your facial expression.
我无法通过你的表情知道你的感受。
You know that from Lisa Feldman Barrett's work.
您可以从丽莎·费尔德曼·巴雷特 (Lisa Feldman Barrett) 的作品中了解到这一点。
But I can make a hypothesis, and I can check in and say, "Hey, did what I say land on you well or not so well?
但我可以做出一个假设，然后我可以检查并说：“嘿，我说的对你来说是好还是不好？
Let's talk about it." The intelligence is the courage to engage.
我们来谈谈吧。”智慧就是参与的勇气。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
The understanding is, listen, because of my childhood, I have a different relationship to anger than you do.
我的理解是，听着，因为我的童年，我与愤怒的关系与你不同。
We learned that today together.
我们今天一起了解到这一点。
I see anger, and fear comes in my blood because I knew I was going to get hit or yelled at or screamed or punished.
我看到了愤怒，恐惧融入了我的血液，因为我知道我会被打、被吼叫、尖叫或受到惩罚。
You have a different relationship with anger.
你与愤怒有着不同的关系。
Anger still is about injustice.
愤怒仍然是关于不公正的。
Period.
时期。
We have to agree that the definition is about perceived injustice.
我们必须同意这个定义是关于感知到的不公正。
However, my relationship to that and yours is different.
然而，我与你的关系是不同的。
Just like whether you're gay or straight or bi or trans, homophobia to someone who is LGBTQIA is different than to someone who's not.
就像无论你是同性恋还是异性恋、双性恋还是跨性别者一样，LGBTQIA 人的恐同症与非 LGBTQIA 人的恐同症是不同的。
I can't relate if I'm not you, but I can have the courage to have empathy for your experience.
如果我不是你，我无法理解，但我可以有勇气对你的经历表示同情。
That's the understanding piece.
这就是理解部分。
I'm not going to ever be fully empathic to your life because I didn't live your life.
我永远不会完全同情你的生活，因为我没有过你的生活。
It's your life.
这是你的生活。
So you can't understand my life.
所以你无法理解我的生活。
You can relate to pieces of it, but I can be curious about it and not judge it.
你可以对它的某些部分产生共鸣，但我可以对它感到好奇而不去评判它。
The labeling piece is having that language.
标签部分就有这种语言。
What is really happening here?
这里到底发生了什么？
What is the experience?
这是什么体验？
The expression piece is knowing how and when to express with different people across contexts.
表达部分是知道如何以及何时在不同的背景下与不同的人表达。
It's saying, "Is how I'm communicating landing well?
它是在说：“我的沟通方式顺利吗？
Is my intended outcome a possibility here?
我的预期结果有可能实现吗？
Or is the person going to just run away?" And then the last piece is the regulation, which is, in the end, is this emotion helping or hurting me achieve my goals in life?
还是那人直接逃跑了？”最后一个是规则，就是这种情绪到底是帮助还是伤害我实现人生目标？
And if it's going to hurt your goals, you need strategies to deal with it.
如果它会损害你的目标，你就需要策略来应对。
Life is difficult.
生活很困难。
I don't know about you, but this journey in becoming an emotion revolutionary ain't easy.
我不了解你，但成为情感革命者的这段旅程并不容易。
Now it's politicized, and like we were talking about earlier, it's like, really?
现在它已经政治化了，就像我们之前谈论的那样，真的吗？
All right, come on.
好吧，来吧。
Who was your mother?
你的母亲是谁？
That's what I want to say.
这就是我想说的。
Tell me about the relationship you had with your mother.
告诉我你和你母亲的关系。
Probably shouldn't have said that, but anyway, I'm okay with it.
也许不应该这么说，但无论如何，我同意。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's all good.
一切都很好。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
It's all good.
一切都很好。
Maybe your father, whoever.
也许是你的父亲，不管是谁。
The point is that I feel very confident in that what I teach is easily defined, it's measurable, and I can show you my own and thousands of other studies where these skills predict the things that we care about in life, whether it's well-being, whether it's leadership, whether it's decision-making, whether it's just mental health outcomes.
关键是，我非常有信心，因为我所教的内容很容易定义，可以测量，而且我可以向您展示我自己的研究和数千项其他研究，其中这些技能可以预测我们生活中关心的事情，无论是幸福感，无论是领导力，无论是决策，还是只是心理健康结果。
And so I have incontrovertible evidence for the effectiveness of it.
所以我有无可争议的证据证明它的有效性。
And so you can still say, "I'm not into it," but you have to be educated first.
所以你仍然可以说，“我不喜欢它”，但你必须首先接受教育。
And once you really understand the value proposition, the why behind learning the skills, I can't imagine that every parent in the world wouldn't want their kid to develop these skills.
一旦你真正理解了价值主张，以及学习这些技能背后的原因，我无法想象世界上的每个父母都不希望他们的孩子发展这些技能。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Especially if these skills are going to be the defining skills of who succeeds and who doesn't.
特别是如果这些技能将成为谁成功和谁失败的决定性技能。
I feel like that's when a culture evolves, and I'm just imagining a future not too long from now where the debate around, we all know who we're talking about here, one group is saying they're all fascists with no empathy, and the other side is saying, well, they're so caught up in inclusivity that nothing's getting done and people are being treated unfairly.
我觉得那就是一种文化进化的时候，我只是想象一下不久之后的未来，我们都知道我们在这里谈论的是谁，一个群体说他们都是没有同理心的法西斯分子，而另一方则说，好吧，他们太沉迷于包容性，以至于什么也没做，人们受到不公平的对待。
That's what the dialogue is, right?
对话就是这样的，对吧？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah, that's our society right now.
是的，这就是我们现在的社会。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's the dialogue.
这就是对话。
And at some point, we got to go, "Okay, everyone, we understand your positions, but what are we going to do?
在某些时候，我们必须说：“好吧，大家，我们理解你们的立场，但是我们要做什么？
We got to move forward." I don't know that there's going to be a meeting in the middle for a while.
我们必须继续前进。”不知道中间有一段时间要开会。
What is going to happen, I think, is that young people will strive, hopefully, or they'll give up.
我认为，将会发生的事情是，年轻人会充满希望地努力，否则他们就会放弃。
And I think if the people who strive incorporate these tools and are rewarded for them, then that will become the standard.
我认为，如果那些努力使用这些工具并因此获得奖励的人，那么这将成为标准。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's kind of interesting, the obesity crisis was real.
有趣的是，肥胖危机是真实存在的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there was also a discussion around inclusivity, and that has now shifted, in part because of the GLPs, but there's now this idea that being obese is unhealthy.
还有关于包容性的讨论，现在已经发生了变化，部分原因是 GLP，但现在有一种观点认为肥胖是不健康的。
You couldn't say that five, six years ago.
五六年前你不能这么说。
I remember during the pandemic, a colleague of mine, a very senior colleague, said, "We're seeing people dying of COVID-
我记得在大流行期间，我的一位同事，一位非常资深的同事说，“我们看到人们死于新冠病毒——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and it's people who are obese."
而且是肥胖的人。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he said, "But you can't say that publicly." He told me, "Don't say that publicly."
他说：“但是你不能公开这么说。”他告诉我，“不要公开这么说。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I remember that.
我记得。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so now there's this acknowledgment, right, that physical health is important, and people are striving for that more.
所以现在人们承认身体健康很重要，人们正在为此付出更多努力。
And I think that's generally a positive shift.
我认为这总体上是一个积极的转变。
It can be taken too far.
它可能走得太远了。
But I think that there's this weird moment that we're in where the name-calling and the labeling of others, it's not getting us anywhere.
但我认为现在有一个奇怪的时刻，我们正处于对他人的谩骂和贴标签的境地，这对我们没有任何帮助。
The opportunity cost is that we're not actually figuring out what we're responsible for.
机会成本是我们实际上没有弄清楚我们的责任是什么。
And I'm pointing fingers at both sides.
我对双方都指指点点。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm also pointing fingers at myself, because-
我也把矛头指向自己，因为——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
For sure
当然
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I can sit here and say all sorts of things, but clearly, we all have this work to do.
我可以坐在这里说各种各样的事情，但显然，我们都有这项工作要做。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Something important about that is that you don't know someone until you know their story.
重要的是，只有了解一个人的故事，你才算认识他。
I know a little bit about your story now, and I want to know more.
我现在对你的故事有所了解，我想了解更多。
And you know a little bit more about my story.
你对我的故事了解得更多一些。
And once you know someone's story, you start having more interest in them, more compassion for them.
一旦你了解了某人的故事，你就会开始对他们产生更多的兴趣，对他们产生更多的同情心。
My partner made a movie during the pandemic called "America Unfiltered," which was him and his friend.
我的搭档在大流行期间制作了一部名为“未经过滤的美国”的电影，这是他和他的朋友拍摄的。
So it's a gay Panamanian running around with a straight Russian around America for a year, interviewing people about what it means to live in America today.
这是一个巴拿马同性恋者和一个俄罗斯异性恋在美国跑了一年，采访人们关于今天生活在美国意味着什么。
And they went to Trump rallies and Biden rallies, and they went into poverty, and they went into all over America, gun shop owners and Black moms whose kids had been murdered by the police, and people who wanted to become Americans, citizens.
他们参加了特朗普集会和拜登集会，他们陷入了贫困，他们走进了美国各地，枪店老板和孩子被警察谋杀的黑人妈妈，以及那些想成为美国人、公民的人。
And it was a listening journey.
这是一次聆听之旅。
And it was remarkable on how-- I did a study on this, actually.
实际上，我对此进行了一项研究，这非常引人注目。
I showed people the expressions of people, and I had them judge, would you want to get to know this person, how warm is this person, et cetera, before they watched the movie.
我给人们展示了人们的表情，让他们在看电影之前判断，你想了解这个人吗？这个人有多热情等等。
And what we found was that people were very judgmental based on race, based on if they were holding a gun or not.
我们发现，人们会根据种族、是否持枪进行评判。
And then you watch the movie, and you see the gun shop owner cry when he's talking about his relationship with his father, and that the only way he and his father could bond was over the guns.
然后你看电影，你会看到枪店老板在谈论他和父亲的关系时哭了，而他和父亲建立联系的唯一方式就是枪支。
And you start hearing his story, and you're sort of like, "This guy's a really nice guy, actually." And then we tested people afterwards, and we found that people had completely different judgments of people after hearing them and listening to their stories.
当你开始听到他的故事时，你会觉得，“实际上，这家伙是一个非常好的人。”然后我们事后对人们进行了测试，我们发现人们在听完他们、听完他们的故事后对人的判断完全不同。
And that's what we need in our society.
这就是我们社会所需要的。
We need more curiosity and less judgment.
我们需要更多的好奇心和更少的判断力。
And that goes to ourselves.
这就是我们自己的事。
We'll be much more regulated.
我们将受到更多监管。
We'll have better relationships.
我们会有更好的关系。
We don't have to agree.
我们不必同意。
There's no need to agree, but there is a need to be civil.
不需要同意，但需要文明。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What you're talking about are standards.
你说的都是标准。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think what you're talking about is some standards of emotional intelligence or at least standards for striving.
我认为你所说的是情商的一些标准，或者至少是奋斗的标准。
Because if we say, like, "Oh, there are standards of physical presence," then what does that mean?
因为如果我们说，“哦，身体存在是有标准的”，那么这意味着什么呢？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Does that mean everyone has to have eight-pack abs and be perfectly-- And then you have older people trying to reverse their age and ending up looking like, totally-
这是否意味着每个人都必须拥有八块腹肌并且完美无缺——然后有些老年人试图扭转自己的年龄，结果看起来完全是——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Martian
火星人
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
unofficial and yeah.
非官方的，是的。
And it can go too far, right?
它可能会走得太远，对吧？
But I think having standards of striving, like every kid does physical education, because even if you're not going to be a great athlete, it's good to develop a relationship to your body and take care of it.
但我认为有奋斗的标准，就像每个孩子上体育课一样，因为即使你不会成为一名出色的运动员，与你的身体建立关系并照顾好它也是有好处的。
Every kid should do emotional intelligence training, even if you're not going to become-
每个孩子都应该进行情商训练，即使你不会成为——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Mark Brackett.
马克·布拉克特。
You can learn to regulate better than your parents, and if you're rewarded, we love rewards.
你可以学会比你的父母更好的监管，如果你得到奖励，我们喜欢奖励。
We're obsessed with if the promotions and the money and the status, let's face it, people care about that stuff-
我们痴迷于晋升、金钱和地位，让我们面对现实吧，人们关心这些东西——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
comes from being healthier physically and emotionally, who wouldn't want that?
来自身体和情感上的健康，谁不想要呢？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
I agree.
我同意。
And it goes back again, I think I'm obsessive about this, like being a scientist about yourself.
又回到过去，我想我对此很着迷，就像成为一名关于自己的科学家一样。
You said this earlier.
你之前说过这个。
Based on whatever, we won't have to go into this right now, but working out is your big thing.
不管怎样，我们现在不必讨论这个问题，但锻炼是你的大事。
But then you realize, like, "Hey, a little break.
但后来你意识到，“嘿，休息一下。
I can take a break.
我可以休息一下了
It's okay.
没关系。
It's okay to take a day off.
休息一天也没关系。
I can go walking on the beach," or whatever it is.
我可以去海滩散步，”或者其他什么。
But that's the reflection process.
但这就是反思的过程。
That's you having that metacognitive ability to say, "Let me evaluate my life right now.
那就是你拥有元认知能力，可以说：“让我评估一下我现在的生活。
I can have a day without the gym.
我可以度过没有健身房的一天。
It's going to be good.
一切都会好起来的。
I can go have some fun with some friends." I'm the same way.
我可以和一些朋友一起出去玩。”我也是一样的情况
All of this work that we do is about that level of reflection.
我们所做的所有工作都是关于这种程度的反思。
I have to ask myself when I don't do my workout, "Is this an excuse?
当我不锻炼时，我必须问自己：“这是一个借口吗？
Am I really tired, or am I just lazy right now?" And that's the work.
我现在是真的累了，还是只是懒了？”这就是工作。
I was thinking about this as we were talking, that it's a process.
当我们谈话时我就在思考这个问题，这是一个过程。
And I came up with this process for myself as I was writing with the workouts.
当我写训练时，我自己想出了这个过程。
In the beginning, you look in the mirror, and by the way, I took photos of myself every month, religiously, and the proof is in the photos.
一开始，你照镜子，顺便说一句，我每个月都会虔诚地给自己拍照片，证据就在照片中。
And then sometimes I look at them like, "Wow, Mark, you really did a good job." Because I really got out of shape, and I was not happy with myself.
有时我会看着他们，“哇，马克，你真的做得很好。”因为我的身材真的走样了，我对自己不满意。
I was used to being an athlete as a martial artist.
我习惯了当一名运动员和一名武术家。
And now I have four years of photos, front, side, back, every month, and you look at the day one, and you look at today, and it's a completely different human being.
现在我有四年的照片，正面、侧面、背面，每个月，你看看第一天，再看看今天，你会发现这是一个完全不同的人。
I have to look at that once in a while because I still have weird issues, and I look in the mirror, and I'm like, "Ugh." And I'm like, "Wait, the picture tells the truth." But the phases of that are important.
我必须偶尔看看这个，因为我仍然有奇怪的问题，当我照镜子时，我会说，“呃。”我想，“等等，图片说的是事实。”但其中的阶段很重要。
The first phase is like, "Can I get through this?" I can't do four workouts, go from 3,500 calories a day down to 1,800 calories.
第一阶段就像是“我能度过这个难关吗？”我无法进行四次锻炼，每天摄入的热量从 3,500 卡路里减少到 1,800 卡路里。
There's no way to do all that.
没有办法做到这一切。
Just like you can't take every strategy in my book and be obsessive about it, like, "I'm going to breathe, and I'm going to walk.
就像你不能接受我书中的每一个策略并对其着迷，比如，“我要呼吸，我要走路。
No, I'm going to sleep.
不，我要睡觉了。
No, I'm going to talk positively.
不，我要积极地谈论。
No, I'm going to reach out." You'll go nuts.
不行，我这就去伸手。”你会发疯的。
It's a process.
这是一个过程。
This is life's work.
这是一生的工作。
The good news, you get your whole life to work on it because you're going to need it forever.
好消息是，你会用一生的时间来致力于它，因为你将永远需要它。
So that first phase is kind of just the learning phase, like, "What's the little steps I can take?" The second phase is you start seeing a little bit of changes.
所以第一阶段只是学习阶段，比如“我可以采取哪些小步骤？”第二阶段是你开始看到一些变化。
"Oh, my life's a little bit better.
“哦，我的生活好一点了。
Feel a little better.
感觉好一点了。
I'm sleeping better.
我睡得更好了。
My relationships are better.
我的人际关系更好了。
I'm more positive." Even during that phase of my workouts, I went through this whole phase of negativity because I'm like, "Mark, you're married for 30 years.
我更加积极了。”即使在我锻炼的那个阶段，我也经历了整个消极的阶段，因为我会想，“马克，你已经结婚 30 年了。
You're 56 years old.
你今年 56 岁了。
Who gives a shit about your body?" And I would do deadlifts, and like, "This is ridiculous, like why I'm deadlifting at 55 years old." And I would catch myself every time and be like, "Mark, this is what you do.
谁在乎你的身体？”我会做硬拉，然后会说，“这太荒谬了，就像我为什么在 55 岁还要硬拉一样。”每次我都会控制住自己，然后说：“马克，这就是你所做的。
You are a self-saboteur right now.
你现在是一个自我破坏者。
You got to pause, and you got to, like, where is this coming from?
你必须停下来，你必须想，这是从哪里来的？
And how are you going to get that self-saboteur self out of here?
你要如何让那个自我破坏的自我离开这里呢？
The best version of you is not someone who does just two sets of those deadlifts.
最好的你并不是只做两组硬拉的人。
You do all four." But it was so much work, I can't tell you.
这四件事你都做。”但工作量太大了，我无法告诉你。
But the beauty of all that, of working through the discomfort, is that identity phase.
但克服不适的这一切的美妙之处在于身份认同阶段。
Because now it's not an option.
因为现在这不是一个选择。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
And so if you just do it, and it becomes part of your identity, you don't have those struggles anymore.
因此，如果你这么做了，它就成为你身份的一部分，你就不会再有那些挣扎了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love it.
我喜欢它。
And the parallel between physical fitness and emotional intelligence is not something I predicted before this conversation, but I love it, and I'm certain that it's resonating with people because physical stuff is just so tangible.
身体健康和情商之间的相似之处并不是我在这次谈话之前预测到的，但我喜欢它，并且我确信它会引起人们的共鸣，因为身体的东西是如此有形。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's so concrete.
太具体了。
And look, I just want to thank you for making the emotional intelligence piece so concrete and for laying out these steps.
看，我只是想感谢您使情商部分如此具体并列出了这些步骤。
We'll obviously provide links to your books.
我们显然会提供您的书籍的链接。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
I want to play a game with you for a minute, though.
不过，我想和你玩一分钟游戏。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
You ready?
你准备好了吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Because one of my former colleagues and I got together a couple weeks ago, about a month ago, and we decided people are so disconnected.
因为我的一位前同事和我几周前（大约一个月前）聚在一起，我们发现人们之间的联系是如此疏远。
So we took all the contents of my books, and we made a game.
所以我们利用了我书中的所有内容，制作了一个游戏。
So actually, when you have your party, it's called The Point of Connection, and so these are random cards.
所以实际上，当你举办派对时，它被称为“连接点”，所以这些都是随机卡。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it doesn't involve an app or a Wi-Fi connection.
而且它不涉及应用程序或 Wi-Fi 连接。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
No, you got to be with people.
不，你必须与人相处。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Awesome.
太棒了。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
So, there's your first card.
所以，这是你的第一张卡片。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's the best advice a mentor ever gave you, and how has it shaped the way you live or work?
导师给过你的最好建议是什么？它如何塑造了你的生活或工作方式？
Two pieces, briefly.
两片，简单说一下。
The Mike Mentzer, one of the great trainers, gave me the advice to do low volume, high intensity resistance training.
伟大的训练师之一迈克·门泽尔（Mike Mentzer）给了我进行低容量、高强度阻力训练的建议。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Each body part once a week and train only three times per week, maybe four, never more than 75 minutes, but to really learn to enjoy training extremely hard.
每个身体部位每周一次，每周只训练三次，也许四次，永远不会超过75分钟，但要真正学会享受极其艰苦的训练。
And I followed that advice for 30 plus years.
三十多年来我一直遵循这个建议。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Wow.
哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I look forward to workouts, so I don't work out every day.
而且我很期待锻炼，所以我不会每天都锻炼。
Amazing advice.
惊人的建议。
And then the other advice, which is separate from fitness, comes from a guy named Bob Knight, who is a neurologist at UC Berkeley, who said, "Figure out how much work you can do each week consistently, and then find some way to reset yourself each week that is not destructive."
另一个与健身无关的建议来自加州大学伯克利分校的神经学家鲍勃·奈特（Bob Knight），他说：“弄清楚你每周可以持续做多少工作，然后找到一些不具有破坏性的每周重新调整自己的方法。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I said, "What's yours?" And he said, "Fishing." And I was like, "Okay, I've done a lot of fishing," because my mom's side, all the men went fishing, and I like it.
我说：“你的是什么？”他说：“钓鱼。”我当时想，“好吧，我钓鱼了很多，”因为我妈妈那边，所有的男人都去钓鱼，我喜欢它。
Decent fisherman.
正派的渔夫。
But I thought, "What is that for me?" For me, it's hiking.
但我想：“那对我来说有什么意义呢？”对我来说，就是徒步旅行。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, for someone else, it could be something else.
所以，对于其他人来说，这可能是另一回事。
But I taught my lab that, and I would teach a career development course where I would pass that on at Cold Spring Harbor during the summer, which is kind of geek summer camp.
但我在我的实验室教授了这一点，并且我会教授一门职业发展课程，我会在夏天在冷泉港传授这一课程，这是一种极客夏令营。
And I said, "That doesn't mean drinking, but maybe one or two drinks." Someone said, "Okay, fine."
我说：“这并不意味着喝酒，而是可能喝一两杯。”有人说：“好吧，好吧。”
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But as long as it's non-destructive, find a way to reset every week and just keep coming back.
但只要它是非破坏性的，就找到一种方法每周重置并不断回来。
And so both of those things were about consistency-
所以这两件事都与一致性有关——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Love it
喜欢它
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and intensity.
和强度。
So, two mentors.
那么，两位导师。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
All right, last one, because I think this one is more relevant to our specific conversation.
好吧，最后一项，因为我认为这一项与我们的具体对话更相关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I thought you were going to answer a question.
我以为你要回答一个问题。
All right.
好的。
What's one emotion you've been carrying a lot lately that you'd like to experience less often?
有一种情绪是你最近经常出现但你不想经常经历的一种情绪吗？
Oof.
钱币。
Man.
男人。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Sorry.
抱歉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What might help soften it?
什么可以帮助软化它？
All right.
好的。
I don't know the name of this emotion.
我不知道这种情感的名称。
Maybe you can help me.
也许你可以帮助我。
I'll try and describe it briefly.
我将尝试简要描述它。
Lately, I've been having these moments of feeling so much love and affection for someone, and it opens, and then I go, and then it shuts.
最近，我一直有这样的时刻，对某人感到如此多的爱和感情，它打开了，然后我走了，然后它关闭了。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it's not opening and shutting because of them.
但它的打开和关闭并不是因为它们。
I'm like, "Oom." And I know this feeling because in a different version of it, I'm about to get a new puppy.
我就像，“噢。”我知道这种感觉，因为在不同的版本中，我即将得到一只新的小狗。
He's already picked out.
他已经选好了。
He's waiting.
他在等。
And I know the difference between what I just described and being like , and I just let it rip-
我知道我刚才描述的和实际情况之间的区别，我只是让它撕裂-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
with the dog.
与狗。
Two different things.
两种不同的东西。
Person, dog, I acknowledge there's a fundamental difference.
人，狗，我承认这是有根本区别的。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I feel this sort of like , like I shut it down.
但我感觉有点像，就像我把它关闭了一样。
So what is that emotion of closing down, I guess like shutting off to love?
那么，封闭的情绪是什么，我想就像封闭了爱情一样？
Is that an emotion?
那是一种情感吗？
Or did I probably just reveal way more than I meant to?
或者我可能只是透露了比我想要的更多的东西？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Well, love is a feeling, obviously.
嗯，显然，爱是一种感觉。
But I think, we're going to go back to that opening a little bit about that fear and vulnerability, just allowing yourself to be with.
但我想，我们会回到那个开头，谈谈恐惧和脆弱，只是让自己和自己在一起。
There's something that's getting in the way there.
有东西妨碍了那里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what might help soften it?
那么什么可以帮助软化它呢？
Time?
时间？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Just be with it.
就这样吧。
Let it ride.
任逍遥。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Man.
伙计。
Thank you for that opportunity.
谢谢你给我这个机会。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
I actually really-
我其实真的——
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah, of course
是的，当然
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
appreciate the opportunity.
感谢这个机会。
I hadn't thought about that until I read this.
在读到这篇文章之前我没有想到这一点。
Are you willing to answer one?
你愿意回答一下吗？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Yeah, sure.
是的，当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're the guest.
你是客人。
I feel like you should speak last.
我觉得你应该最后发言。
I spoke a lot today.
我今天讲了很多。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
All right.
好吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I can pick one or you can pick one.
我可以选一个，你也可以选一个。
How does the game work?
游戏如何运作？
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Basically, you can go in circles and everybody shares, and you look for the point of connection.
基本上，你可以绕圈子，每个人都分享，然后你寻找联系点。
So it's get to know people-
所以要认识人——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
...
...
at a party, in the workplace.
在聚会上，在工作场所。
Who is one of your heroes, and what does that reveal about what you value?
谁是你心目中的英雄之一？这揭示了你的价值观是什么？
Well, as you know from our prior conversation, the hero in my life was my Uncle Marvin because he helped me get through my very traumatic experiences as a kid.
嗯，正如你从我们之前的谈话中知道的那样，我生命中的英雄是我的马文叔叔，因为他帮助我度过了童年时期非常痛苦的经历。
And what I value about him now that I think about it more, was that nothing I could say could startle him.
现在我想得更多了，我看重他的是，我所说的任何话都不能让他吃惊。
Nothing I could say would make him run away.
我说什么也无法让他逃跑。
He was just fully present, and a listener, and a learner, and provided steady support.
他完全在场，是一名倾听者和学习者，并提供稳定的支持。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, clearly you've internalized that.
嗯，显然你已经内化了这一点。
Mark, thank you so much for coming back.
马克，非常感谢你回来。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Your work is evolving so fast, and you're doing such good in the world.
你的工作发展得如此之快，而且你在世界上做得如此之好。
And do come back again.
请再次回来。
I feel like- ...
我感觉就像——...
you're clearly on the move-
你显然在移动-
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
There you go
就这样吧
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and doing amazing things.
并做一些令人惊奇的事情。
And again, I'll put links to your book, and your books, plural, and other work.
再次，我将添加您的书、您的书、复数和其他作品的链接。
But just want to say thank you as a co-public educator, and as somebody who's really doing important work in the world.
但我只想对你说声谢谢，作为一名公共教育者，作为一个在世界上真正做出重要工作的人。
Thank you.
谢谢。
You're a really good man.
你真是个好人。
Dr. Marc Brackett:
马克·布拉克特博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Appreciate it.
欣赏它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Appreciate you.
感谢你。
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Mark Brackett.
感谢您参加今天与马克·布拉克特博士的讨论。
To learn more about his work and to find links to his books, please see the links in the show note captions.
要了解有关他的作品的更多信息并查找他的书籍的链接，请参阅节目注释标题中的链接。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请通过单击 Spotify 和 Apple 上的关注按钮来关注播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。
And you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
您现在可以在 Spotify 和 Apple 上给我们留下评论。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab Podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客、嘉宾或您希望我考虑在 Huberman 实验室播客中讨论的主题有意见，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这本书是我花了五年多时间编写的，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验。
And it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它涵盖了从睡眠到运动再到压力控制的所有协议，以及与注意力和动机相关的协议，当然，我为所包含的协议提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by pre-sale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." And if you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 hubermanlab。
So that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab Podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab Podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客上的信息不同。
Again, it's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
再说一遍，所有社交媒体平台上都是 hubermanlab。
And if you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as what we call protocols in the form of one to three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep, how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及我们所说的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议，涵盖从如何优化睡眠、如何优化多巴胺、故意冷暴露等所有内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training.
我们有一个基本的健身方案，涵盖心血管训练和阻力训练。
All of that is available completely zero cost.
所有这些都是完全零成本可用的。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the Menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to Newsletter and enter your email.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的“菜单”选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯并输入您的电子邮件即可。
And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Mark Brackett.
再次感谢您参加今天与马克·布拉克特博士的讨论。
And last, but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但同样重要的是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。
Booking.com is the easiest way from a day surrounded by noise to a stay surrounded by nature.
Booking.com 是让您远离喧嚣的一天，享受大自然环绕的住宿的最简单方式。
That's nice.
那很好。
Go on, book it.
来吧，预订吧。
It's easy.
这很容易。
Booking.com.
预订网站。
Booking dot yeah.
预订点是的。