How to Accelerate Learning & Improve Education | Joe Liemandt

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

We don't do the basics.

我们不做基础工作。

We need to nail the basics, just like in sports.

我们需要打好基础，就像体育运动一样。

My famous example I always use is if you lose the ball 20% of the time going down the court, the coach is not saying, "Let's work on the dunks and the alley-oops," or even the layups.

我经常使用的著名例子是，如果你在场上有 20% 的时间丢球，教练不会说，“让我们练习扣篮和空中接力”，甚至上篮。

They're like, "Ball handling.

他们就像，“控球。

We're going to get ball handling.

我们要进行控球。

20% isn't acceptable.

20%是不可接受的。

15% isn't acceptable."

15%是不可接受的。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

You can't be 85, 80% accurate.

你不可能做到 85%、80% 准确。

In America, we're like, "You getting a B, man, move on.

在美国，我们会说，“你得了 B，伙计，继续吧。

We're moving on to dunks.

我们要继续扣篮了。

You just finished fourth grade at 80%, let's get you into that fifth-grade stuff." And the answer is no, no, because then all those problems compound.

你刚刚以 80% 的成绩完成了四年级的学业，让我们让你进入五年级的学习吧。”答案是否定的，因为这样所有的问题就会变得更加复杂。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

欢迎来到胡伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

My guest today is Joe Lemont, the principal of Alpha School, which is a novel approach to education that strives to ensure that every child reaches the frontier of their knowledge and skill potential.

今天我的嘉宾是阿尔法学校的校长乔·莱蒙特，这是一种新颖的教育方法，致力于确保每个孩子都达到其知识和技能潜力的前沿。

Kids in Alpha School spend just two hours a day, two hours a day, learning what they need to in order to ensure no gaps in their cognitive knowledge.

Alpha School 的孩子们每天只花两个小时学习他们需要的东西，以确保他们的认知知识没有差距。

Then they spend the rest of their day learning to and actually starting their own businesses, learning financial skills as well as communication and interpersonal skills.

然后，他们用一天剩下的时间学习并实际创办自己的企业，学习财务技能以及沟通和人际交往技能。

The goal of Alpha School is to tailor learning to the unique needs of the child.

Alpha School 的目标是根据孩子的独特需求定制学习。

But unlike so many other non-traditional forms of learning in schools, they don't let the child pick what is easiest for them, nor force all kids to learn at the same rate across all subjects.

但与学校中许多其他非传统学习形式不同，它们不会让孩子选择对他们来说最简单的学习方式，也不会强迫所有孩子在所有科目上以相同的速度学习。

So it's a truly unique approach.

所以这是一种真正独特的方法。

The data on Alpha School kids are astounding.

阿尔法学校孩子们的数据令人震惊。

K through 12 students from Alpha School test in the top 1% of students in the US, and their average SAT scores graduating from high school is a nearly perfect 1530.

Alpha School 的 K 到 12 名学生的考试成绩在美国学生中名列前 1%，他们高中毕业的 SAT 平均成绩接近满分 1530。

In addition, while still in school, many of the Alpha students start their own businesses that are highly successful, meaning they generate hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars.

此外，许多阿尔法学生在校期间就创办了自己的企业，并取得了巨大成功，这意味着他们创造了数十万甚至数百万美元的收入。

During today's conversation, you're not just going to hear about how Alpha students do all this incredible stuff.

在今天的谈话中，您不仅会听到阿尔法学生如何做所有这些令人难以置信的事情。

It's really about how the ways in which they learn will allow you, adult or young, to learn better, and why filling in gaps in our basic knowledge that we all have at every age is both possible and can be done quickly with the correct lesson plans and understanding of neuroplasticity, the brain's ability to rewire itself.

这实际上是关于他们的学习方式如何让你，无论是成年人还是年轻人，都能学得更好，以及为什么通过正确的课程计划和对神经可塑性（大脑自我重新连接的能力）的理解，填补我们每个年龄段的基础知识的空白都是可能的，并且可以快速完成。

So some of today's discussion focuses on that as well.

所以今天的一些讨论也集中于此。

You'll also learn that no, Alpha School is not just for wealthy kids.

您还会了解到，不，阿尔法学校不仅仅适合富裕的孩子。

They are changing education for students of all backgrounds and income levels.

他们正在改变各种背景和收入水平的学生的教育。

And Joe Lemont and his colleagues are striving to teach educators the real data on how kids and adults learn best in ways that serve the student both in and after they leave school.

乔·莱蒙特和他的同事正在努力向教育工作者传授有关儿童和成人如何以在学生离开学校时和离开学校后为学生提供最佳学习方式的真实数据。

I have to say, as a university professor who lives in the land of education, our conversation today completely changed how I think about learning in and out of the classroom, and it also provides tools that I now use to learn more effectively.

我不得不说，作为一名生活在教育这片土地上的大学教授，我们今天的谈话彻底改变了我对课堂内外学习的看法，也为我现在用来更有效地学习提供了工具。

And I'm confident that it will do the same for you.

我相信它也会为您带来同样的效果。

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。

In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors.

为了与这个主题保持一致，今天的节目确实有赞助商。

And now for my discussion with Joe Lemont.

现在我与乔·莱蒙特进行讨论。

Joe Lemont, welcome.

乔·莱蒙特，欢迎。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Thank you very much.

非常感谢。

Great to be here.

很高兴来到这里。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Tell us about learning and education 100 years ago, because that sounds like a long time ago, but it wasn't that long ago.

告诉我们100年前的学习和教育，因为那听起来像是很久以前的事，但其实并没有那么久远。

And then we'll use that as a contrast point to where you're trying to take learning and education and schooling for young people now.

然后我们将以此作为对比点，与您现在试图为年轻人提供的学习、教育和学校教育的情况进行对比。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

So 100 years ago, we were trying to say, how are we going to educate everybody?

所以 100 年前，我们想说，我们如何教育每个人？

Universal access to education 200 years ago was not a thing.

200 年前，普及教育还不是一回事。

Every person on the planet did not have access to education.

地球上的每个人都没有机会接受教育。

A hundred plus years ago, people said, "Let's start educating everybody." We're talking K through 12.

一百多年前，人们说：“让我们开始教育每个人吧。”我们正在谈论 K 到 12。

So they started the industrialized model.

于是他们开始了工业化模式。

Started over in Prussia, right, and then was imported, and it was very controversial, actually, if you look back, of you have a rural society, and you're saying, "Get off the farms and get into schools." And the best way to educate people back then was, let's put them in a room, let's teach them how to read and write, let's have a teacher in front of the classroom.

从普鲁士开始，对吧，然后被进口，这是非常有争议的，实际上，如果你回顾一下，你有一个农村社会，你会说，“离开农场，进入学校。”当时教育人们的最好方法是，让我们把他们放在一个房间里，让我们教他们如何阅读和写作，让我们在教室前面有一位老师。

And that became the model.

这成为了模型。

And that today is actually one of the things that's the most universal in the world, is the education model.

今天实际上是世界上最普遍的事情之一，那就是教育模式。

You can go to the richest school district down the street here or the richest private school, and there's a teacher in front of a classroom of kids.

你可以去这里街上最富有的学区或最富有的私立学校，教室里的孩子们面前都有一位老师。

And you can go to the poorest school district in India, and the building's not as nice, but there's a teacher in front of a classroom.

你可以去印度最穷的学区，那里的建筑不是那么好，但是教室前面有一位老师。

We have universal access.

我们拥有普遍的访问权限。

What we are trying to do is bring universal learning.

我们正在努力做的是普及学习。

So there's a vast disparity in how much kids learn during that 12 years, that while they may have access to it, learning is very different.

因此，孩子们在这 12 年里学到的东西存在巨大差异，虽然他们可能有机会获得这些知识，但学习效果却截然不同。

And so what we think is because of new things that have become available and things like AI and technology, for the first time in 50 and 100 years, you can revisit and change education.

所以我们认为，由于人工智能和技术等新事物的出现，50 和 100 年来第一次，你可以重新审视和改变教育。

How we educate kids is going to be radically different in five years, in 10 years, than the last 50 and 100 years.

五年后、十年后，我们教育孩子的方式将与过去 50 年和 100 年发生根本不同。

And that's what we're out doing, building that model, building the set of schools around it, and then figuring out how we scale it and get it out to a billion kids so that everybody can have access to it.

这就是我们正在做的事情，建立这个模型，围绕它建立一系列学校，然后弄清楚如何扩展它，并将其推广给十亿孩子，以便每个人都可以使用它。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It seems to me that we think in terms of milestones.

在我看来，我们是根据里程碑来思考的。

Even before a child is born, if they can have an ultrasound, the parents are-

即使在孩子出生之前，如果他们可以进行超声波检查，父母就可以-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

looking, are they meeting milestones?

看看他们是否达到了里程碑？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then we think of biological milestones and cognitive milestones.

然后我们想到生物学里程碑和认知里程碑。

How much of the current schooling system is based on milestones that make really good sense?

当前的教育系统有多少是基于真正有意义的里程碑？

Like, by time you finish a certain grade, you're supposed to be able to read-

就像，当你完成一定的成绩时，你应该能够阅读-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

you're supposed to be able to write.

你应该能够写作。

What we decide is a critical milestone can easily change.

我们决定的关键里程碑很容易改变。

But I'm guessing there are still some milestones that are cemented in that don't make any sense any longer.

但我猜仍然有一些里程碑已经不再具有任何意义了。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

There's a whole set of milestones that people have, especially the ones parents understand and grandparents is, whatever you went through Are the milestones that you understand.

人们有一整套的里程碑，尤其是父母理解的里程碑和祖父母理解的里程碑，无论您经历过什么，都是您理解的里程碑。

Kids should read by third grade.

孩子们应该到三年级就开始读书。

It used to be you memorized your multiplication tables by third grade.

过去，你在三年级的时候就已经记住了乘法表。

You'd learn cursive before that.

在那之前你会学习草书。

And the standard, the books.

还有标准、书籍。

You would read books.

你会读书。

There's a book list in high school, and you would read it, and you'd understand the content that was in that books.

高中时有一个书单，你会阅读它，你会理解书中的内容。

And what has happened, and I think where a lot of the unhappiness in education is, is those standards have gone down.

所发生的事情，我认为教育领域的许多不幸之处在于这些标准的下降。

They've pulled those standards away around the academics for a lot of different reasons.

由于许多不同的原因，他们在学术界取消了这些标准。

And so when you think about development, there's behavioral standards.

因此，当你考虑发展时，就会有行为标准。

How should I behave?

我应该如何表现？

How much should I know?

我应该知道多少？

And then what are the non-academic skills, whether it's vocational or life skills that you need to have, financial literacy, that have changed from what were true 30 years ago or 50 years ago to where they are today, and there's generally a view that there's broad unhappiness.

那么非学术技能是什么，无论是你需要具备的职业技能还是生活技能，金融素养，这些技能已经从30年前或50年前的真实情况变成了今天的样子，并且普遍认为存在广泛的不幸福感。

That whether it's the standard or the student's achievement of that standard, and are they actually even hitting the standards, that's causing this big demand for we need to change our education system.

无论是标准还是学生达到该标准的成绩，以及他们实际上是否达到了标准，这都导致了我们需要改变我们的教育体系的巨大需求。

And that's sort of half of it.

这只是其中的一半。

The other half is people are looking at things like AI and saying, "The world is really different." The world that's coming is really different, and it does put into parents' heads, the educational system I went through isn't going to get my kids ready for the future one.

另一半是人们在关注人工智能等事物时说：“世界真的不一样了。”即将到来的世界确实不同了，它确实让父母们深思，我所经历的教育体系不会让我的孩子为未来做好准备。

We're building schools everywhere and doing education, so I talk to lots of parents.

我们在各地建设学校并开展教育，所以我和很多家长交谈。

When I have a 12th grade parent talking to me, they're at the finish line.

当我有一位 12 年级的家长跟我说话时，他们已经到了终点线。

They're just trying to get the kid into-- get them out, and so they're just like, "Whatever.

他们只是想让孩子进去——让他们出去，所以他们就像，“随便吧。

Just, I'm done." But when you talk to the kindergarten parents, they are forecasting forward 12 years, and they sit there and say, "There's no way the current system is going to get my kid ready." They have the high demands to say, "We need to do something different."

只是，我已经完成了。”但当你与幼儿园家长交谈时，他们会预测未来 12 年，然后他们坐在那里说：“当前的系统无法让我的孩子做好准备。”他们有很高的要求说：“我们需要做一些不同的事情。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'd like to take a quick break to acknowledge one of our sponsors, David.

我想稍微休息一下，向我们的赞助商之一大卫表示感谢。

David makes protein bars unlike any other.

大卫制作的蛋白质棒与众不同。

Their newest bar, the Bronze Bar, has 20 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar.

他们最新的 Bronze Bar 含有 20 克蛋白质，仅 150 卡路里，零克糖。

I have to say, these are the best-tasting protein bars I've ever had, and I've tried a lot of protein bars over the years.

我不得不说，这些是我吃过的味道最好的蛋白质棒，这些年来我尝试过很多蛋白质棒。

These new David bars have a marshmallow base, and they're covered in chocolate coating, and they're absolutely incredible.

这些新的大卫巧克力棒有一个棉花糖底座，上面覆盖着巧克力涂层，它们绝对令人难以置信。

I, of course, eat regular whole foods.

当然，我经常吃天然食品。

I eat meat, chicken, fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables, et cetera.

我吃肉、鸡肉、鱼、鸡蛋、水果、蔬菜等等。

But I also make it a point to eat one or two David bars per day as a snack, which makes it easy to hit my protein goal of one gram of protein per pound of body weight.

但我也强调每天吃一两块大卫棒作为零食，这样很容易达到我每磅体重一克蛋白质的蛋白质目标。

And that allows me to take in the protein I need without consuming excess calories.

这使我能够摄入所需的蛋白质，而不会消耗过多的热量。

I love all the David Bronze Bar flavors, including Cookie Dough, Caramel Chocolate, Double Chocolate, Peanut Butter Chocolate.

我喜欢大卫青铜棒的所有口味，包括饼干面团、焦糖巧克力、双重巧克力、花生酱巧克力。

They all actually taste like candy bars.

它们实际上尝起来都像棒棒糖。

Again, they're amazing.

再说一次，他们太棒了。

But again, they have no sugar, and they have 20 grams of protein with just 150 calories.

但同样，它们不含糖，并且含有 20 克蛋白质，只有 150 卡路里热量。

If you'd like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman.

如果您想尝试 David，可以访问 david Protein.com/huberman。

Right now, David is offering a deal where if you buy four cartons, you get the fifth carton for free.

现在，大卫正在提供一项优惠，如果您购买四箱，您可以免费获得第五箱。

Today's episode is also brought to us by Lingo.

今天的节目也是Lingo给我们带来的。

Lingo is an everyday wearable that tracks your glucose 24/7.

Lingo 是一款日常可穿戴设备，可 24/7 跟踪您的血糖。

Glucose drives a lot of key processes that support energy, body composition, and long-term health.

葡萄糖驱动许多支持能量、身体成分和长期健康的关键过程。

When glucose is constantly spiking and crashing, that's where we can start to see metabolic dysfunction.

当血糖不断上升和下降时，我们就可以开始看到代谢功能障碍。

And over time, that can even progress to prediabetes.

随着时间的推移，甚至可能发展为糖尿病前期。

Right now, about 115 million adults in the US have prediabetes.

目前，美国约有 1.15 亿成年人患有糖尿病前期。

Most don't know it, and a higher percentage of men have it than women do.

大多数人不知道这一点，而且男性患有此病的比例高于女性。

Often, there aren't clear symptoms of prediabetes early on, so people don't tend to look into it.

通常，糖尿病前期并没有明显的症状，因此人们往往不会对其进行调查。

But the fact is that metabolic health is shaping how your body functions every day, whether you feel it or not.

但事实是，无论您是否感觉到，代谢健康正在塑造您身体的日常运作方式。

Tracking your glucose with Lingo can help you see how food, activity, and stress impact your glucose throughout the day.

使用 Lingo 跟踪您的血糖可以帮助您了解食物、活动和压力如何影响您全天的血糖。

I personally have used Lingo, and it's been an invaluable tool for improving my metabolic health.

我个人使用过 Lingo，它是改善我的代谢健康的宝贵工具。

If you would like to try Lingo, Huberman Lab listeners in the US and UK can save 10% on a four-week plan.

如果您想尝试 Lingo，美国和英国的 Huberman Lab 听众可以在为期 4 周的计划中节省 10%。

Just visit hellolingo.com/huberman for more information.

请访问 hellolingo.com/huberman 了解更多信息。

Terms and conditions apply.

条款和条件适用。

Again, that's hellolingo.com/huberman.

再说一次，这是hellolingo.com/huberman。

I hear some very polarized views out there.

我听到一些非常两极分化的观点。

One, that you can get all the education you need off YouTube.

第一，您可以从 YouTube 获得所需的所有教育。

I don't believe that's true.

我不相信这是真的。

I think how one forages through technology, especially publicly available technology, is critical.

我认为如何利用技术，尤其是公开可用的技术，是至关重要的。

Because you can ruin your life or you can potentially build some of your life out by watching YouTube videos, but that's a wide divergence, and so I don't believe that statement.

因为你可能会毁掉你的生活，或者你可能会通过观看 YouTube 视频来改善你的生活，但这是一个很大的分歧，所以我不相信这种说法。

The other thing that I'd like to just set as a context for our discussion is I think there are very divergent views on the notion of doing what you love versus doing things that are painful to learn.

我想作为我们讨论的背景的另一件事是，我认为对于做你喜欢的事情和做那些学起来很痛苦的事情的概念存在非常不同的看法。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So in terms of milestones and standards, the idea when I was growing up was that you have to have at least a certain level of aptitude in something if you want to progress forward.

因此，就里程碑和标准而言，我成长过程中的想法是，如果你想取得进步，你必须至少在某件事上拥有一定水平的能力。

But you might be much more musical than you are whatever-

但你可能比你本身更具音乐性——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Mm-hmm

嗯嗯

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

or much more oriented towards the engineering, science, and math fields or towards something else, and that's okay, but everyone had to be above the bar-

或者更倾向于工程、科学和数学领域或其他领域，这没关系，但每个人都必须高于标准——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

in order to move forward.

为了前进。

I think nowadays, because of this battle, basically-

我想现在，因为这场战斗，基本上——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

between whether we're coddling kids too much or whether we're pushing them too much, I feel like the whole landscape is a bit of a mess.

无论我们是过于溺爱孩子还是过于逼迫他们，我觉得整个情况有点混乱。

So what is Alpha School's philosophy with respect to what kids like to do-

那么阿尔法学校关于孩子们喜欢做什么的理念是什么呢？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

versus what they absolutely should do independent of whether or not they like it?

与他们绝对应该做什么（不管他们是否喜欢）？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Great.

伟大的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And I came from the latter category-

我来自后一类——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

It works well

效果很好

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

where it's like you have to learn stuff because you have to learn it.

就好像你必须学习东西，因为你必须学习它。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then you find the things you love.

然后你就会找到你喜欢的东西。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then you eventually try and create a life.

然后你最终会尝试创造生活。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right.

对。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You know?

你知道吗？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

These are great.

这些都很棒。

So both of them, we have strong views on all of these.

因此，我们对所有这些都有强烈的看法。

The first one of everything's available on YouTube or you can get MIT online.

第一个内容可以在 YouTube 上找到，或者您也可以在线获取 MIT。

Why doesn't everybody-

为什么不是每个人——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Or Khan Academy.

或者可汗学院。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah, Khan Academy.

是的，可汗学院。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Why doesn't everybody have an MIT degree?

为什么不是每个人都有麻省理工学院的学位？

The open courseware is available.

提供开放课件。

Libraries have been here forever.

图书馆一直都在这里。

Every textbook, you can just go to a library and read.

每本教科书，你都可以去图书馆阅读。

School Is much more than just that.

学校远不止于此。

And I believe, and just to be really clear, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 90% of parents are going to drop their kids off at a building, and in that building are going to be other kids and adults.

我相信，需要明确的是，从现在起 10 年、从现在起 20 年之后，90% 的父母会将他们的孩子送到一栋大楼里，而那栋楼里将会有其他孩子和成人。

That the way school, that part of school-- School's socialization, right?

这就是学校的方式，学校的那一部分——学校的社会化，对吗？

It's much more than, "I sat and watched a YouTube video." It's motivation.

这不仅仅是“我坐下来观看 YouTube 视频”。这是动力。

The material's available, the motivation isn't, right?

材料已经有了，但动机还没有，对吗？

Or the structure isn't.

或者结构不是。

And schools provide a lot of that.

学校提供了很多这样的东西。

And so that's when we look at it.

这就是我们看待它的时候。

We believe motivation is 90% of learning these days.

我们相信当今 90% 的学习都是动机。

Now, our view back to the day, if we do our job right, the six or seven hours your kid's in that building is going to be radically different and 10 times better than what we went through.

现在，我们回顾一下当时的情况，如果我们的工作做得好，您的孩子在那栋大楼里呆的六七个小时将会完全不同，并且比我们经历的要好十倍。

Then the second part around standards and love school, do what you love.

然后第二部分围绕标准和热爱学校，做你喜欢的事。

Wait, it's a grind.

等等，这是一个磨练。

So this is a personal story for me.

所以这对我来说是一个个人故事。

So I didn't start Alpha.

所以我没有启动Alpha。

I'm the principal, going on my fifth year.

我是校长，现在已经是第五个年头了。

It was started by Brian and McKenzie 12 years ago.

它是由 Brian 和 McKenzie 于 12 年前创办的。

And parents want to educate their kids the way they were, even if they didn't like it that much.

父母希望按照孩子本来的方式教育孩子，即使他们不太喜欢这样。

I went to Catholic school.

我去了天主教学校。

I have two daughters, they were in Catholic school.

我有两个女儿，她们在天主教学校上学。

McKenzie starts this school, and she's like, "You got to come to my new school." And I looked at it and I'm like, "This is a totally weird, janky school.

麦肯齐创办了这所学校，她说：“你必须来我的新学校。”我看着它，心想，“这是一所完全奇怪、简陋的学校。

No way."

没办法。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What did you see that led you to-

你看到了什么让你——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

"Oh, there's no teacher in front of a classroom." I'm like, "This is totally crazy," right?

“哦，教室前面没有老师。”我想，“这太疯狂了，”对吧？

And, "Oh, they're going to learn on some apps?" The girls reciting their vocabulary words while they were doing handstands.

并且，“哦，他们会在一些应用程序上学习？”女孩们一边倒立一边背诵词汇。

And I'm like, I grew up a standard school system.

我想，我是在标准的学校系统中长大的。

It was weird.

很奇怪。

And it took her two years, actually, of trying to convince me.

事实上，她花了两年时间才试图说服我。

I actually saw one of mine struggling in standard school.

我实际上看到我的一个学生在标准学校里挣扎。

And then what happened was St. Gabriel got out at the end of May, and Alpha was still in session, and my kids were going to go to summer camp.

然后发生的事情是圣加布里埃尔在五月底离开了，阿尔法仍在上课，我的孩子们要去参加夏令营。

And McKenzie convinced my daughter, she's like, "Well, why don't you come to Alpha for a week before you go to summer camp?

麦肯齐说服了我女儿，她说：“好吧，你为什么不在去夏令营之前来阿尔法待一周呢？

My daughters are there, it'll be really fun." I'm like, "You want to go to school in the middle of the summer?" "Sure." So they went for a week, and they came back at the end of the week, and they're like, "Dad, we don't want to go to summer camp.

我的女儿们都在那里，那会很有趣。”我问：“你想在暑假期间去上学吗？” “当然。”所以他们去了一周，周末他们回来了，他们说，“爸爸，我们不想去夏令营。

We want to go back to Alpha." And I thought that was the craziest thing I'd ever heard in the world, that somebody wanted to go to school instead of camp.

我们想回到阿尔法。”我认为这是我在世界上听过的最疯狂的事情，有人想去学校而不是露营。

That was an indicator to me where I'm like, "They have something here." And the kids are in second and fourth grade.

这对我来说是一个指标，我会想，“他们这里有东西。”孩子们已经上二年级和四年级了。

I'm like, "Let's try it out." And that was 10 years ago, and it really worked out for us.

我想，“让我们尝试一下吧。”那是 10 年前的事了，这对我们来说确实很有效。

And we can get to that later.

我们可以稍后再讨论这个问题。

But when I put my daughters in, I talked to Brian, and I was like, "What do I not understand as a parent?" He said, "There's two things.

但当我把女儿们放进去时，我和布莱恩交谈，我想，“作为父母，我不明白什么？”他说：“有两件事。

First, your kids must love school." And I was like, "Oh, that's not true at all.

首先，你的孩子必须热爱学校。”我当时想，“哦，那根本不是真的。

It's like spinach.

就像菠菜一样。

You just grind it, right?

你只要磨一下就可以了，对吧？

That's what it's like.

就是这样。

It's spinach, you grind it.

这是菠菜，你把它磨碎了。

I mean, sometimes it's okay, but you grind your way through it." He's like, "Nope.

我的意思是，有时候没关系，但你要努力克服它。”他就像是，“不。

And someday you'll figure this out, and you'll see with your daughters that kids must love school." I was like, "Anything else?" He's like, "Yes.

有一天你会明白这一点，你会和你的女儿们一起发现孩子们一定喜欢上学。”我当时想，“还有别的事吗？”他说：“是的。

Your kids have so much more potential than you expect, than what you think." And I was like, "Oh, that's not true." I'm sort of like a tiger dad.

你的孩子比你想象的更有潜力。”我当时想，“哦，那不是真的。”我有点像虎爸爸。

I think my kids are going to do a ton of stuff.

我认为我的孩子们会做很多事情。

And I have really high expectations.

我的期望非常高。

And he's like, "They're going to blow you away." And that's sort of the dichotomy, I think, around Alpha that really confuses people, is kids love school.

他说：“他们会让你大吃一惊。”我认为，围绕 Alpha 的这种二分法确实让人困惑，那就是孩子们喜欢上学。

We make three commitments to the kids, and the first one is you will love school.

我们向孩子们做出三项承诺，第一个是你会热爱学校。

And 90-some percent of our students, we survey them, right?

我们对 90% 的学生进行了调查，对吗？

Say, "I love school." We actually, in the last year or so, have started asking a follow-up question, which is, would you rather go to school or go on vacation?

说：“我喜欢学校。”实际上，在过去一年左右的时间里，我们已经开始提出一个后续问题，即您愿意去上学还是去度假？

And depending on the vacation, the session, and how good our workshops were, between 40% and 60% of kids said, "I'd rather go to school than vacation."

根据假期、课程以及我们的研讨会的效果，40% 到 60% 的孩子说：“我宁愿去学校也不愿去度假。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Wow.

哇。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

As a standard, like loving school.

作为一个标准，就像热爱学校一样。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Wow.

哇。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And when you engage kids and you think, "I'm going to put them in this system for 12 years," as a parent, you want them to love it.

当你让孩子们参与进来时，你会想，“我要把他们放在这个系统中 12 年”，作为父母，你希望他们喜欢它。

And so there's that part.

这就是那部分。

But now let's talk about doing hard things.

但现在我们来谈谈做困难的事情。

Kids want to do hard things.

孩子们想做困难的事情。

Kids have to do hard things.

孩子们必须做困难的事情。

Which is, when I'm talking to parents who are worried because we have such high achievement, we're the number one academic school in the country.

也就是说，当我与那些因我们取得如此高的成就而担心的家长交谈时，我们是全国排名第一的学术学校。

Every grade level is top 1% in every subject, right?

每个年级的每个科目都是前 1%，对吗？

My freshman honors SAT score, freshmen are at 1400, which is better than almost every senior class in the country.

我大一的SAT成绩是1400分，几乎比全国所有的高年级都好。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Your freshmen are at 1400 on the SAT?

你们新生SAT考了1400分吗？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Honors class.

荣誉班。

My honors track in freshmen is 1400 SAT.

我新生的荣誉成绩是 SAT 1400。

And so we have great academics, and parents are like, "Wait, is this like this high stress, high standard?" And we explain to them, which is the key to your child's happiness is high standards.

所以我们有很好的学业成绩，家长们会说，“等等，这是高压力、高标准吗？”我们向他们解释，高标准是孩子幸福的关键。

And I can't run a school that they love more than vacation if I have low standards.

如果我的标准很低，我就无法经营一所他们比假期更喜欢的学校。

And it is that paradox, right, that tension, that is the magic of Alpha School, and it's the magic that parents need to understand, because that's what engages them, is they want to do things.

正是这种悖论，对的，那种紧张，这就是阿尔法学校的魔力，这也是父母需要理解的魔力，因为这就是吸引他们的地方，是他们想要做的事情。

Kids think they're awesome, and they are awesome, but they need to be put in an environment where they get to go do hard things with their friends.

孩子们认为他们很棒，而且他们很棒，但他们需要被置于一个可以与朋友一起做困难事情的环境中。

And with that, they do the grind.

就这样，他们开始了磨砺。

They do hard things.

他们做困难的事情。

In America, we have a very different view.

在美国，我们有非常不同的看法。

We have sort of how you treat academics and how you treat sports.

我们有一些对待学术和体育的方式。

And if we took the sports ethos and the athletic ethos in America, and we applied it to academics, we would fix every academic problem in this country.

如果我们将美国的体育精神和运动精神应用到学术上，我们就能解决这个国家的所有学术问题。

For example, Westlake High School football team in Austin, where I am, going to win the state championship, right?

例如，我所在的奥斯汀西湖高中橄榄球队将赢得州冠军，对吧？

They're great.

他们很棒。

Every parent's like, "I want my kid to be on that team because it's going to be the hardest thing they've ever done." Because they're going to have to work harder.

每个父母都会说，“我希望我的孩子加入那个团队，因为这将是他们做过的最艰难的事情。”因为他们将不得不更加努力地工作。

It's going to be crazy, but it's going to be the most fun thing they ever do, and they're going to remember it the rest of their life.

这会很疯狂，但这将是他们做过的最有趣的事情，他们会终生记住它。

And we believe that about sports.

我们相信体育运动也是如此。

You can make education the same way, and that's what we're building to do that.

你可以用同样的方式进行教育，这就是我们正在做的事情。

So we believe on both, which is high standards, right, is what leads to loving school and happiness.

所以我们相信两者，这是高标准，对吧，这就是导致热爱学校和幸福的原因。

I know you had Dr. Yeager on.

我知道你有耶格尔博士在场。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

So Dr. Yeager was actually, his book, "10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Kids," is all about high standards and high support.

事实上，耶格尔博士的书《10到25岁：激励孩子的科学》就是关于高标准和高支持的。

And it is that combination that you want from a school, and that's what we built.

这正是您想要从学校获得的组合，而这正是我们所构建的。

He created our guide training.

他创建了我们的导游培训。

All the adults in our buildings follow that High Standards, High Support, his mentor mindset program.

我们大楼里的所有成年人都遵循高标准、高支持，这是他的导师心态计划。

And most parents are one of two things.

大多数父母都是以下两种情况之一。

They're either high standards, low support.

它们要么是高标准，要么是低支持。

"I'm just going to throw my kid in and expect him to do great." And that's not good.

“我只是要把我的孩子扔进去，并期待他表现出色。”那不好。

Or they're low standards, high support.

或者他们的标准低，支持高。

"I never want my kid to have stress." That's bad, too.

“我不想让我的孩子有压力。”这也很糟糕。

And the real answer is you do both.

真正的答案是你两者都做。

And schools should do this.

学校应该这样做。

Schools should have high standards and high support.

学校应该有高标准、高支持。

And back to my athletic analogies, great coaches do that.

回到我的运动类比，伟大的教练就是这么做的。

There's thousands of movies in America of our sports team is in last place, and a coach comes in and he's like, "I know we're in last place, but we're going to win the state championship next year." The whole movie is about how he turns around the team by having high standards and teamwork and hard work, and they do it, and then they win.

在美国有成千上万的电影，我们的运动队排名垫底，一位教练走进来，他说，“我知道我们排名垫底，但明年我们将赢得州冠军。”整部电影讲述的是他如何通过高标准、团队合作和努力来扭转球队的局面，他们做到了，然后取得了胜利。

Where are those on academics?

那些学术界的人在哪里？

I think there's three.

我认为有三个。

We know that's how you develop kids.

我们知道这就是培养孩子的方式。

Child development experts will sit and explain the key to developing a child is that they struggle and fail on their road to success, supported by a caring adult.

儿童发展专家将坐下来解释儿童发展的关键是他们在成功之路上的挣扎和失败，并得到有爱心的成年人的支持。

And you just want to run that loop.

而您只想运行该循环。

If you talk to most parents, they're like, "My kid learns the valuable life skills in after-school sports." Parents are like, "Yes, they're going to struggle.

如果你和大多数家长交谈，他们会说，“我的孩子在课后运动中学到了宝贵的生活技能。”父母们会说：“是的，他们会很挣扎。

They're going to fail.

他们将会失败。

They're going to lose the game, whatever's going to happen." But it's going to be on the road to success.

无论发生什么，他们都会输掉比赛。”但它将会走上成功的道路。

And that coach, I pick the coach because I know he cares about my kid achieving it, and he's going to be there to support him.

至于那位教练，我选择这位教练是因为我知道他关心我的孩子实现这一目标，并且他会在那里支持他。

And that's what you should just do in school for the other seven hours, is have those same loops.

这就是你在学校剩下的七个小时里应该做的事情，就是做同样的循环。

I will add one thing that happens, especially when you start with kindergarten, kids struggle and fail, sometimes cry on their road to success, supported by a caring adult.

我要补充一件发生过的事情，尤其是当你从幼儿园开始时，孩子们会挣扎和失败，有时会在有爱心的成年人的支持下在成功的道路上哭泣。

And it's really hard for parents as soon as the kid cries, obviously, and that struggle part, and that's the linchpin for parents being like, "I don't want the struggle." Because you hear this, you're like, "Well, why don't you just...

显然，一旦孩子哭了，对父母来说真的很难受，而挣扎的部分，这就是父母说“我不想挣扎”的关键。因为你听到这个，你会想，“好吧，你为什么不......

Okay, that sounds all logical.

好吧，这听起来很合乎逻辑。

Why don't you do it?" And you're like, well, when you're a parent and your kid's crying, you want to go protect them.

你为什么不做呢？”你会想，好吧，当你是父母并且你的孩子在哭泣时，你想要去保护他们。

You want to make sure they're safe.

你想确保他们安全。

And that's why you have to make sure they're in an environment where you think they're safe, where the adult in charge is making sure it's not low standards and they're leaving them hanging out.

这就是为什么你必须确保他们处于一个你认为安全的环境中，负责的成年人确保它的标准不低，并且他们不会让他们闲逛。

At Alpha, we have great workshops where 85% of Alpha parents in the last year said, "I saw my kid do something that I literally thought was impossible for their age." Back to high standards.

在 Alpha，我们举办了很棒的研讨会，去年 85% 的 Alpha 家长表示：“我看到我的孩子做了一些我认为对他们这个年龄来说不可能的事情。”回到高标准。

And one of them is our kindergartners climb a 40-foot rock wall at our San Francisco campus.

其中之一是我们的幼儿园学生在旧金山校区攀爬 40 英尺高的岩墙。

They rode their bikes five miles, learned how to ride a bike, rode it five miles across the Golden Gate Bridge without stopping.

他们骑自行车五英里，学会了如何骑自行车，骑着自行车五英里不停地穿过金门大桥。

And then we have a, we call them Alpha tests for these life skills.

然后我们对这些生活技能进行阿尔法测试。

Ten weeks into school, there's the kindergartners, and they're climbing up.

开学十周了，幼儿园的孩子们都在往上爬。

And sometimes they do get halfway, and they are stuck, and they sit there, and they're worried, and the parents want to go rescue them.

有时他们确实走到了一半，他们被卡住了，他们坐在那里，他们很担心，父母想要去营救他们。

And we always tell them, "Just watch, because this is what the school's about." And their guide is down at the bottom of the wall and coaching them up.

我们总是告诉他们，“只要看着，因为这就是学校的目的。”他们的向导就在墙的底部指导他们向上。

And then eventually, and maybe they have to wait there, and maybe they even whimper a little while they're struggling.

最后，也许他们必须在那里等待，也许他们甚至会在挣扎时呜咽一下。

They then, "I can do it," and they climb to the end, supported by their Alpha guide at the bottom.

然后，他们说：“我能做到”，然后在底部的阿尔法向导的支持下，他们爬到了终点。

And when they come down after achieving it, they ring the bell, they come down.

当他们实现目标后下来时，他们会按铃，然后下来。

That kid is beaming, and their parents are beaming.

那孩子喜气洋洋，他们的父母也喜气洋洋。

And that's why we have such fanatical love of school and why we have such evangelism.

这就是为什么我们如此狂热地热爱学校，为什么我们如此传福音。

And why everybody talks about Alpha is because the parents go through that experience, and they see their kids thrive, and they see them thrive via these things that are hard.

为什么每个人都在谈论阿尔法，因为父母都经历过这种经历，他们看到自己的孩子茁壮成长，他们看到他们通过这些艰难的事情而茁壮成长。

And that's the environment we need to build for kids, because that is how you develop kids.

这就是我们需要为孩子们​​营造的环境，因为这就是培养孩子的方式。

When you think of old societies, every society had rites of passage.

当你想到旧社会时，每个社会都有通过仪式。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

They were hard.

他们很难。

And it's what is the struggle and fail on your road to success supported by an adult?

而你在成人的支持下成功之路上的挣扎和失败又是什么呢？

That's what the educational system needs to be and should be.

这就是教育体系需要并且应该成为的样子。

And we do it a lot in sports and not a lot on education.

我们在体育方面做得很多，但在教育方面做得不多。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What you said is so rich with ideas.

你说的太有思想了。

Let me organize them the following way.

让我按以下方式组织它们。

I've heard you say before, and you sort of touched on a bit a moment ago, that most of the way that we teach kids how to navigate life in the United States-

我以前听过你说过，你刚才也提到过，我们教孩子们如何驾驭美国生活的大部分方式——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

is in sports, not in academics.

是在体育领域，而不是在学术领域。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And I completely agree.

我完全同意。

And when I first heard you say that in a prior conversation with Patrick O'Shaughnessy, I thought, "Yes, absolutely." And the contrast with academics is really striking because I think there's this idea that kids are, by the time they're in high school, they're going to be good at certain things and other things not so much.

当我第一次听到你在之前与帕特里克·奥肖内西的谈话中这么说时，我想：“是的，绝对如此。”与学术界的对比确实很引人注目，因为我认为有这样一种想法，即孩子们在上高中时，他们会擅长某些事情，而其他事情就不那么擅长了。

And the words "Do the best you can" sounds like support, sounds like high standards, but it kind of avoids both.

“尽你所能”这句话听起来像是支持，听起来像是高标准，但它有点避免了两者。

So maybe we could just drill a little more specifically into what support really looks like at the level of parenting and maybe peers as well.

因此，也许我们可以更具体地探讨一下在养育子女以及同龄人层面上的支持到底是什么样的。

So I can imagine high standards could, let's take a zero to 10 scale, arbitrary units, and say zero is like you'll never be anything.

所以我可以想象高标准可以，让我们采用 0 到 10 的尺度，任意单位，并说零就像你永远不会成为任何东西。

Everyone agrees that it's not a good model.

每个人都同意这不是一个好的模型。

10 would be you can do and become anything you want.

10就是你可以做任何你想做的事，并成为任何你想做的事。

We believe this in America, and there are examples to support the 10 model.

我们在美国相信这一点，并且有支持 10 模型的例子。

It's not totally true.

这并不完全正确。

It's not totally true.

这并不完全正确。

I went to a very competitive public high school, and there were some phenoms in my class at sports.

我就读于一所竞争非常激烈的公立高中，班上有一些体育方面的佼佼者。

A pair of twins, Joe and John Cannon.

一对双胞胎，乔·坎农和约翰·坎农。

People can look them up.

人们可以查找它们。

One became a goalie for the San Jose Quakes.

其中一人成为圣何塞地震队的守门员。

The other one had a 100-mile-plus fastball in high school.

另一位在高中时曾打过 100 英里以上的快球。

I forget who he played for.

我忘记了他为谁效力。

Maybe it was the Mariners or whoever.

也许是水手队或其他人。

But anyway, he was a pro pitcher.

但无论如何，他是一名职业投手。

Their younger brother, Colt Cannon, picked up a skateboard.

他们的弟弟柯尔特·加农 (Colt Cannon) 捡起了一块滑板。

Eight months later, he had a pro model, or he was on a team, then he had a pro model.

八个月后，他有了一个职业模特，或者他加入了一个团队，然后他有了一个职业模特。

Maybe it wasn't eight months to that.

也许还不到八个月。

But there's something going on in that family.

但那个家庭发生了一些事情。

Okay?

好的？

And they were good at academics.

他们擅长学术。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But none of them became, dare I say, professors at Stanford, but they probably could have, but we don't know.

但我敢说，他们中没有人成为斯坦福大学的教授，但他们可能可以成为斯坦福大学的教授，但我们不知道。

So we have this model that, like in sports, some genetics plays a role.

所以我们有这个模型，就像在体育运动中一样，一些遗传学发挥了作用。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Family lines play a role.

家庭血统发挥着作用。

We're kind of okay with that conversation now.

我们现在对这次谈话还算满意。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But you can become anything.

但你可以成为任何人。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's the highest standard.

这是最高标准。

Somewhere in between is probably what you'll tell me is most effective, because we have to put reality into the picture sometimes.

您会告诉我，介于两者之间的某个位置可能是最有效的，因为有时我们必须将现实融入到画面中。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But the support thing is the one that's completely opaque to me.

但支持问题对我来说是完全不透明的。

Because we know what the zeroes are, right?

因为我们知道零是什么，对吗？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Figure it out on your own.

你自己想办法吧。

Make yourself breakfast.

自己做早餐。

Get yourself to school.

自己去学校。

That's not support, right?

这不叫支持吧？

And then the other one is, I'm going to try and get in there and do everything for you.

另一个是，我会尝试进入那里并为你做一切。

I'm going to climb the rock for you.

我会为你爬上岩石。

I'm going to do your homework for you, and we know that's not good.

我要为你做作业，我们知道这不好。

We haven't really defined clearly what real, truly useful support is-

我们还没有真正明确定义什么是真正的、真正有用的支持——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

and standardized that.

并将其标准化。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Great.

太棒了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So maybe you could enrich our thinking about what it might look like or what you think it looks like.

所以也许你可以丰富我们对它可能是什么样子或者你认为它是什么样子的思考。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Great.

太棒了。

And I think that's a great framework.

我认为这是一个很棒的框架。

Let's do the athletic side, and then we'll throw it over, because that's one of the things that's changed.

让我们先做运动方面的事情，然后我们就把它扔掉，因为这是改变的事情之一。

How we provide support or actually the training, i.e. educating the instruction, is what's dramatically changed, which lets us get athletic level in academics.

我们如何提供支持或实际上的培训，即教育指导，发生了巨大的变化，这让我们在学术上获得运动水平。

So in athletics, right, we do know.

所以在田径运动中，我们确实知道。

We know there are physical constraints.

我们知道存在物理限制。

You have your story.

你有你的故事。

My daughter in middle school was like, "I'm going to be the world's best volleyball player.

我中学时的女儿说：“我要成为世界上最好的排球运动员。

I'm going to start for Stanford, and I'm going to be there." And it motivated her.

我要去斯坦福大学，我也会去那里。”这激励了她。

It drove her.

它驱使着她。

Every afternoon, she's practicing.

每天下午，她都在练习。

When she became a freshman in high school, she's like, "I'm not tall enough.

当她成为高中一年级学生时，她说：“我不够高。

I'm just physically not tall enough.

我只是身体不够高。

I can't play my position.

我无法发挥我的作用。

Four years from now, there's no way Stanford's going to let me in on that dimension." And so while she had gotten very good, to sort of the limit of her frontier, and so we believe there are physical limitations that map your frontier.

四年后，斯坦福大学不可能让我涉足这个领域。”因此，虽然她已经变得非常好，但她的边界已经达到了极限，因此我们相信存在映射您的边界的物理限制。

But in athletics, we actually know how to get you to the frontier.

但在田径运动中，我们实际上知道如何让您达到前沿。

That's the delta, and that's why we do so much via athletics in America, because we have a training system that gets kids there.

这就是三角洲，这就是为什么我们在美国通过体育运动做这么多，因为我们有一个训练系统可以让孩子们到达那里。

We don't say, "Hey, do your best.

我们不会说：“嘿，尽力而为吧。

I hope you become a good basketball player or golfer." You don't watch YouTube videos to be like, "Oh, I guess I'm the world's best golfer now." You have coaches, and we have training that is going to get you there.

我希望你成为一名优秀的篮球运动员或高尔夫球手。”你看 YouTube 视频不会是为了说“哦，我想我现在是世界上最好的高尔夫球手了。”你们有教练，我们有训练可以帮助你们实现这一目标。

And we know how to deliver it, right?

我们知道如何交付它，对吧？

We know how to instruct it, right?

我们知道如何指导它，对吗？

You wouldn't have your kid go on a sports team where they're like, "Yeah, we do inquiry training here where we don't teach you.

你不会让你的孩子加入一个运动队，他们会说：“是的，我们在这里进行探究训练，但我们不教你。

We just let you productively struggle and figure it out yourself." Which is something we do a lot in schools.

我们只是让你富有成效地奋斗并自己解决问题。”这是我们在学校经常做的事情。

That's not an effective way to teach somebody, right, a sport.

这不是教某人运动的有效方法。

You're like, "Show me how to block.

你会说，“告诉我如何阻止。

Give me the step-by-step.

给我一步一步。

Give me the instruction you need so that I can do this better, so I play this position perfectly." Nick Saban is like, "Do what I say.

给我你需要的指导，这样我就能做得更好，这样我就能完美地发挥这个位置。”尼克·萨班说：“照我说的做。

Play your position." On academics, the difference was we have a teacher in front of a classroom, and the teacher in front of the classroom has to just give the median instruction to everybody.

发挥你的位置。”在学术上，不同之处在于我们有一位老师在教室前面，而教室前面的老师必须向每个人提供中等的指导。

Imagine all the different players on your football team are all getting exactly the same instruction.

想象一下，您的足球队中的所有不同球员都接受完全相同的指示。

You're like, "Well, the quarterback needs something different than the wide receiver." But the teacher just sits there and has to give everybody, 25, 30, however many it is, the exact same instruction.

你会说，“好吧，四分卫需要与外接手不同的东西。”但老师只是坐在那里，必须给每个人，25、30，无论有多少人，完全相同的指导。

And that's what's different now.

这就是现在的不同之处。

If you look at why do we have access to education but not universal learning?

如果你看看为什么我们有机会接受教育却不能普及学习？

We have universal access but not universal learning.

我们可以普及，但不能普及学习。

It's because kids need individualized instruction.

这是因为孩子需要个性化的指导。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Right down to the true individual, because at least in my high school, we had honors track for certain things.

直到真正的个人，因为至少在我的高中，我们在某些事情上有荣誉记录。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So it was tiered a little bit-

所以它有点分层-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

that if people were really, really proficient at something-

如果人们真的非常精通某件事——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

you'd get into honors English or honors math, and you would just kind of be among kids that were better performing, so the mean shifted.

你会进入荣誉英语或荣誉数学，你就会成为表现更好的孩子之一，所以平均值发生了变化。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Basically.

基本上。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

So individualized tutoring.

所以个性化辅导。

Think back, Plato and Socrates, Aristotle, Alexander the Great.

回想一下，柏拉图和苏格拉底，亚里士多德，亚历山大大帝。

Individualized tutoring is the best model.

个性化辅导是最好的模式。

A one-on-one model is the best model.

一对一的模型是最好的模型。

A mentorship model, an apprentice mentor.

师徒模式，学徒导师。

That is the best model.

那是最好的模型。

It's not cost-effective, which is why 100 years ago, when you have to get it to everybody, you're like, "Well, I can't give everybody an individualized one." And so 30 to one was what societies could afford.

它不符合成本效益，这就是为什么 100 年前，当你必须把它提供给每个人时，你会说，“好吧，我不能给每个人一个个性化的。”所以 30 比 1 是社会可以承受的。

The number one thing parents measure schools on is class size, and smaller is better because you're trying to get to one.

家长衡量学校的首要标准是班级规模，越小越好，因为你正在努力达到一个班级规模。

And so 20 to one is better than 30 to one.

所以 20 比 1 比 30 比 1 更好。

Ten to one's better than 20 to one.

十比一比二十比一好。

Five to one's better than 10, and one to one's the best.

五比一比十比好，一对一是最好的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In terms of homeschooling, because I know there's a lot of interest in that now, but not everyone can afford it.

就在家上学而言，因为我知道现在人们对此很感兴趣，但并不是每个人都能负担得起。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What do the data say about the outcomes for homeschooling?

关于在家上学的结果，数据说明了什么？

Do those kids do well?

那些孩子成绩好吗？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And I guess on what standards?

我猜按照什么标准？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Homeschooling's totally bimodal.

在家上学完全是双模式的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay.

好的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Which is, are they homeschooling them for high standards or not?

也就是说，他们是否以高标准在家教育他们？

And there's a lot of homeschoolers who are like, "I don't like standardized tests.

有很多在家上学的人会说，“我不喜欢标准化考试。

I don't like the standardized curriculum.

我不喜欢标准化课程。

I reject that whole system." And so those people do very poorly on anything like that.

我拒绝整个系统。”所以那些人在类似的事情上做得很差。

The level of academics that those students know is very low because the parents have basically abandoned that and said, "I care all about the life skills." For parents who really care about academics, those kids crush it.

这些学生所知道的学术水平非常低，因为家长基本上已经放弃了这一点，并说“我只关心生活技能”。对于真正关心学业的父母来说，这些孩子会压垮他们。

You have ex-teachers homeschooling their kids in a one-on-one environment, and they can do it dramatically better.

你让前老师在一对一的环境中在家教育他们的孩子，他们可以做得更好。

Now, there's still value even homeschooling socialization and because we have these high standards and the life skills at our schools, we actually have a bunch of homeschoolers who come who say, "Wow, this is the schooling system I was looking for because I get both the high standards on the academic side, but then all the afternoons of these life skills that I thought I'd only get via homeschool." You want to get to one-on-one, and that's the magic.

现在，甚至在家上学的社交化仍然有价值，因为我们的学校有这些高标准和生活技能，实际上有一群在家上学的人来说，“哇，这就是我一直在寻找的学校教育系统，因为我在学术方面得到了高标准，但所有下午的生活技能我认为我只能通过家庭学校获得。”你想要一对一，这就是魔力。

And so let's go on this because we haven't talked about the academic side and what is the breakthrough that allows us to change education from 50 and 100 years ago.

让我们继续这个话题，因为我们还没有讨论学术方面，也没有讨论什么突破可以让我们改变 50 到 100 年前的教育。

So learning science, there's a whole field of learning science, right?

所以学习科学，有一个学习科学的整个领域，对吗？

You can cognitive load theory, cognitive science.

你可以认知负荷理论、认知科学。

There's a famous paper from the '80s, Bloom's 2 Sigma program, where he's like, "If you give An individual tutor to mastery level.

80 年代有一篇著名的论文，Bloom 的 2 Sigma 项目，他在论文中写道：“如果你给一位个人导师提供精通水平。

Kids can learn at two sigma, right?

孩子们可以通过两个西格玛学习，对吗？

Two sigma, it is top 2%.

两个西格玛，就是前2%。

We could get everybody.

我们可以得到所有人。

So when you talk about the frontier, he's basically claiming you can get everybody to the top 2% performance today.

因此，当你谈论前沿时，他基本上是在声称你可以让每个人今天都达到前 2% 的表现。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Assuming high levels of motivation.

假设有高水平的动机。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Correct.

正确。

Mastery is actually the part everybody forgets about on that.

精通实际上是每个人都忘记的部分。

If you have a tutor that's not mastery-based, you won't get to the top 2%.

如果你的导师不精通，你就无法进入前 2%。

One sigma came from the tutor, one sigma comes from mastery.

一西格玛来自导师，一西格玛来自掌握。

Which once again, we'll talk about, we all accept mastery in athletics, but we reject it, explicitly reject it in education.

我们将再次讨论这一点，我们都接受体育运动的精通，但我们拒绝它，明确地拒绝教育。

And you actually need both.

而你实际上两者都需要。

You need individualized instruction at a mastery level to get that performance.

您需要掌握水平的个性化指导才能获得这种表现。

And now with AI tutors at cost effectively, you can give every kid perfectly tailored lessons at their level for them at a mastery level.

现在，有了人工智能导师，您可以以经济高效的方式为每个孩子提供适合他们水平的完美定制课程，达到他们的精通水平。

And that is the magic that then allows kids to learn 10 times faster.

这就是让孩子们学习速度提高十倍的魔力。

In our schools, when we talk about we're the best academic performing school, we're top 1%.

在我们的学校，当我们谈论我们是学术表现最好的学校时，我们是前 1%。

We do it in two hours a day.

我们每天两个小时就能完成。

Our average student does not sit in class for six and do homework.

我们的普通学生不会坐在六人的教室里做作业。

They sit at an AI app and they spend two hours a day.

他们坐在人工智能应用程序前，每天花两个小时。

The average kid spent 121 minutes last year in the apps and learned more than two X what they would've in sitting in class for six and doing homework.

去年，孩子们平均在应用程序上花费了 121 分钟，所学到的知识是他们在六堂课上做作业所学到的知识的两倍多。

So when you just look at those standards, it's depending on the class and stuff between five and 10X normal speed.

因此，当您查看这些标准时，您会发现它取决于级别和 5 到 10 倍正常速度之间的内容。

Because you have six hours a day in homework versus two, and you're performing at a level that's exceeding them, how much the average student learns by two X.

因为你每天有六个小时的家庭作业，而不是两个小时，而且你的表现水平超过了他们，所以平均学生学到了两个 X 的知识。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Could you enrich the picture in our minds a bit of this kid for 121 minutes?

你能否在 121 分钟的时间里丰富一下我们脑海中这个孩子的形象？

Just the top contour of what sorts of things they're doing.

只是他们正在做的事情的大致轮廓。

Is it a human face that's teaching them or is it text prompts?

是人脸在教他们还是文字提示？

What does it look like?

它看起来像什么？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

So the first, just to be really clear on this, when people think AI, chatbots.

首先，要明确这一点，当人们想到人工智能、聊天机器人时。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

It's not chatbots.

这不是聊天机器人。

If you take a chatbot and put it into a standard school, 90% of the kids use it to cheat.

如果你把一个聊天机器人放进一所标准学校，90% 的孩子用它来作弊。

Doesn't matter what grade level you're at.

不管你处于什么年级。

I can't remember which Ivy League professor gave a final that he made in person, right?

我不记得哪位常春藤盟校教授亲自做过期末考试了，对吧？

He made an in-person final, and literally everybody except two people failed the exam.

他参加了现场期末考试，实际上除了两个人之外，所有人都没有通过考试。

They're just ChatGPT'ing their papers up.

他们只是在 ChatGPT 上整理他们的论文。

They're not reading books.

他们不读书。

They're getting ChatGPT summaries of them.

他们正在获取 ChatGPT 的摘要。

And there's a whole push to ban them and things like this.

人们正在大力禁止它们和类似的事情。

And while we're at AI school, used incorrectly just like any technology, they can be bad.

当我们在人工智能学校时，就像任何技术一样使用不当，它们可能会很糟糕。

Here's how you want to think about it is what you know is the basis of what you can learn.

这是你要如何思考的，这是你所知道的，也是你能学到的东西的基础。

And so being able to have a foundation and then building on that foundation is critical.

因此，能够拥有一个基础，然后在此基础上进行构建至关重要。

And so if I am in material that's too hard and it's just too hard for me, you can give it to me all day long and I'm not going to learn it.

因此，如果我学习的材料太难，而且对我来说太难，你可以整天给我它，但我不会学它。

Back in my world or your world, if you gave me an MCAT, I don't know the words on the page.

回到我的世界或你的世界，如果你给我一张MCAT，我不认识页面上的单词。

You can tell me to have grit or growth mindset, or you can tell me whatever you want.

你可以告诉我要有勇气或成长心态，或者你可以告诉我你想要的任何东西。

I'm not going to pass that test.

我不会通过那个测试。

And you need to roll me back to freshman bio and say, "That's where you are," and then build me up from there to be able to do that.

你需要让我回到新生简历并说，“这就是你所在的位置”，然后从那里培养我能够做到这一点。

And that's the problem in our current education system today, is we are taking eighth graders, and we are delivering them eighth-grade content because that's what an eighth-grade teacher does.

这就是我们当今教育体系中的问题，我们正在招收八年级学生，我们向他们提供八年级内容，因为这就是八年级老师所做的。

By law, they need to stand up and deliver the eighth-grade content.

根据法律，他们需要站起来传递八年级的内容。

If you look at the stats, we have people who need to be in seventh grade in that classroom, sixth grade, fifth grade.

如果你看一下统计数据，我们的教室里有七年级、六年级、五年级的人。

Because of COVID, you even have some who need to be in fourth and third grade because of all that learning loss that happened.

由于新冠疫情，甚至有一些学生因为学习损失而需要上四年级和三年级。

They never learned it, right?

他们从来没有学过，对吧？

We have kids who didn't learn how to read in third and fourth grade.

我们的孩子在三四年级时还没有学会如何阅读。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Oh my goodness.

天哪。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And so now we're wondering why all the curves are going down, and it's like, well, because they're in eighth grade and they're being told eighth-grade content, and no one ever taught them how to read.

所以现在我们想知道为什么所有的曲线都在下降，就像，因为他们在八年级，他们被告知八年级的内容，但没有人教他们如何阅读。

Or other things when you talk about lower standards.

或者当你谈论较低标准时的其他事情。

They took away memorizing your multiplication tables and science of reading, teaching phonics.

他们剥夺了你记忆乘法表和阅读科学的能力，教授自然拼读法。

They took away some of the basics that as you get into higher level grades, as a kid, it just kills you.

他们剥夺了一些基础知识，当你进入更高水平的年级时，作为一个孩子，它只会杀死你。

Right?

对吗？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What was the rationale behind doing that?

这样做的理由是什么？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

That it gets into a lot of debate around why that happened.

关于为什么会发生这种情况引起了很多争论。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

I don't think there's a clear answer.

我认为没有明确的答案。

I believe at the end of it, they didn't realize how important it was.

我相信到最后，他们并没有意识到它有多重要。

Like the science of learning.

就像学习的科学一样。

If you talk to your average teacher and you look at what's taught in schools of education, cognitive load theory, right, and cognitive science and how all this works is not a main part of what the curriculum is.

如果你和你的普通老师交谈，看看教育学校教授的内容，认知负荷理论、权利和认知科学，以及所有这些如何运作并不是课程的主要部分。

And so these teachers don't know.

所以这些老师不知道。

We just had our staff days before school starts, so I have hundreds of teachers.

我们在开学前几天才配备了员工，所以我有数百名老师。

These are the best teachers in the world, right?

这些是世界上最好的老师，对吗？

We're the employer of choice for teachers around the country.

我们是全国各地教师的首选雇主。

And I was like, "How many of you guys learn direct instruction?" Which is one of these concepts.

我当时想，“你们中有多少人接受直接指导？”这是这些概念之一。

5% raised their hand.

5% 举手了。

There's this Project Follow Through, a big project in the '70s that was the largest educational study ever about effective ways to teach kids.

有一个“跟进项目”，这是 70 年代的一个大项目，是有史以来规模最大的关于有效教育孩子方法的教育研究。

I was like, "How many of you guys read Project Follow Through when you were getting your master's?" And none.

我当时想，“你们中有多少人在获得硕士学位时读过《Project Follow Through》？”没有。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Wow.

哇。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And so she was a big teacher, in Houston School District.

所以她是休斯顿学区的一位大老师。

And she came, and she's an Alpha Guide now.

她来了，现在她是一名阿尔法向导了。

And I saw a Twitter post after the staff day.

员工日结束后我看到了一条 Twitter 帖子。

She's like, "I learned more in listening to Joe's six-hour presentation," which I have the world's best learning science team who helps educate me as well.

她说，“我在听乔的六个小时演讲中学到了更多”，我拥有世界上最好的学习科学团队，他们也帮助教育我。

"I learned more in six hours of listening to Joe about how kids learn than I did getting my master's or even my PhD." And just that curriculum, we don't have that knowledge, and we need to.

“在听乔讲述孩子们如何学习的六个小时里，我学到的东西比我获得硕士学位甚至博士学位还要多。”就课程而言，我们没有这些知识，但我们需要。

We need to fix that.

我们需要解决这个问题。

It's not there.

它不在那里。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Is there not a textbook for teachers?

没有老师的教科书吗？

If somebody wants to become a neuroscientist or even just get a neuroscience degree, they read the book "Principles of Neurobiology" by Dachun Luo or "Principles of Neuroscience," which used to be by Kandel, Jessell, and Schwartz.

如果有人想成为一名神经科学家，甚至只是想获得一个神经科学学位，他们会读罗大春的《神经生物学原理》或坎德尔、杰塞尔和施瓦茨曾经写过的《神经科学原理》。

I think there's someone else on there.

我认为那里还有其他人。

But everyone gets those books.

但每个人都会得到这些书。

You learn electrophysiology from Bernard Hill.

您向伯纳德·希尔学习电生理学。

You get the biochemistry book from Stryer.

你可以从斯特莱尔那里得到一本生物化学书。

These are the books used everywhere.

这些是到处使用的书。

So that it doesn't matter if you're in a state university and ...

因此，如果您在一所州立大学就读并不重要......

wherever, or you're at Stanford, pretty much everyone is educated at the front end from the same textbooks.

无论在哪里，或者在斯坦福大学，几乎每个人都接受相同教科书的前端教育。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Correct.

正确。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So you can go to a big international meeting and everyone understands more or less the action potential.

所以你可以去参加一个大型的国际会议，每个人都或多或少地了解行动潜力。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Education is not that.

教育不是这样的。

So our educational system is not fact-based, which seems crazy, but there's a dean of a school of education for one of the best schools in the country who, when he was talking about the status of facts in education, put up a picture of Galileo's trial, where he's like, "This is a religious war.

所以我们的教育体系不是基于事实的，这看起来很疯狂，但是全国最好的学校之一的教育学院院长，当他谈论事实在教育中的地位时，放了一张伽利略受审的照片，他说，“这是一场宗教战争。

This isn't a fact-based trial about these things." There's a lot of evidence behind it.

这不是对这些事情的基于事实的审判。”这背后有很多证据。

Take the UC system.

以UC系统为例。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

There's a huge debate on whether the UC schools should use standardized tests or not, and do standardized tests help, and are they good things-

关于加州大学学校是否应该使用标准化考试存在着巨大的争论，标准化考试有帮助吗？它们是好事吗？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

To get in or to progress through?

进入还是进步？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

To get in.

想要进去。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Well, there's whole things of should kids have a standardized test to get out of high school?

那么，孩子们应该参加标准化考试才能从高中毕业吗？

To graduate high school, should you be able to pass a test or not?

高中毕业，你能不能通过考试？

And that's a debate.

这是一场辩论。

That's not a fact.

这不是事实。

Now, when you're letting someone into your university, there's a view of should we require standardized tests?

现在，当你让某人进入你的大学时，有人会问我们是否应该要求标准化考试？

2,000 professors, I think, I don't know exactly what it was, but 2,000 professors are like, "Yeah, we should use these." But the board of regents voted, "Yeah, no, we're not going to take them." Whatever decisions are being made-

2,000 名教授，我想，我不知道具体是什么，但 2,000 名教授会说，“是的，我们应该使用这些。”但董事会投票说：“是的，不，我们不会接受他们。”无论做出什么决定——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm

嗯嗯

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

around this stuff is not a fact-based decision.

围绕这些东西不是基于事实的决定。

It's an opinion.

这是一个意见。

It's I care about different goals.

这是我关心不同的目标。

I'm trying to optimize on something besides academics.

我正在尝试在学术之外的其他方面进行优化。

The goal of a school is not academics.

学校的目标不是学术。

When you look in education, it's a really complicated thing.

当你审视教育时，你会发现这是一件非常复杂的事情。

And right, what is the purpose of a school?

对了，学校的目的是什么？

What is developing a child?

什么是孩子的成长？

Does academics matter?

学术重要吗？

So when you think of these basic things like, well, the kid was struggling on his multiplication tables, and I was worried about his mental health, so I just told him, "Don't worry about it." And you're like, well, that's really going to hurt him to learn algebra.

所以当你想到这些基本的事情时，比如，这个孩子在乘法表上很吃力，我担心他的心理健康，所以我只是告诉他，“别担心。”你会想，好吧，这真的会伤害他学习代数。

He's not going to do well at algebra.

他代数不会学得很好。

It's like the homeschoolers, like, "I don't care about academics," or there are parents at schools.

就像在家上学的人一样，“我不关心学业”，或者学校里有家长。

And one of the things I've learned in education, especially in being principal of school, is, first of all, I have massive empathy for everybody running these schools.

我在教育领域，特别是在担任校长期间学到的一件事是，首先，我对经营这些学校的每个人都抱有极大的同情心。

So, I was watching in Austin, we're closing a bunch of schools.

所以，我在奥斯汀看到，我们要关闭很多学校。

A lot of public schools are closing, and it's being closed because it's not hitting academic standards.

许多公立学校正在关闭，它们被关闭是因为它没有达到学术标准。

Five years in a row it's failed.

连续五年都失败了。

It just literally is not teaching these kids.

它只是字面上没有教这些孩子。

These are eighth graders who can't read at a third-grade level.

这些是八年级学生，他们的阅读能力无法达到三年级的水平。

And so the state and the school district's like, "We need to close the school and put the kids in a school that teaches them." And there's a mom who's just furious, and she's at the meeting, and she's like, "I don't care about that.

因此，州和学区会说，“我们需要关闭学校，把孩子们送到一所可以教他们的学校。”有一位妈妈非常愤怒，她在会议上说，“我不在乎这个。

What I care about is my older daughter in seventh grade had teacher ABC, had this great teacher who changed her life, and I want my younger child to have that same teacher.

我关心的是我七年级的大女儿有 ABC 老师，有一位改变了她生活的伟大老师，我希望我的小孩子也有同样的老师。

And if it means they're not good at math, whatever." And the rules of the government, the government school system is, we are funding this to educate them on academics.

如果这意味着他们不擅长数学，那也无所谓。”政府的规则，政府学校系统是，我们资助这个系统来对他们进行学术教育。

Parents' demands are very different.

父母的要求是非常不同的。

If you're the head of the school, your parents are saying, "Well, I don't care about that." Now, I believe you can do better and do it all-

如果你是学校的校长，你的父母会说：“好吧，我不在乎这个。”现在，我相信你可以做得更好，做到这一切——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm

嗯嗯

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

and those kind of things, but fundamentally, why is the regents at UC saying, "Yeah, no, we're not going to take standardized tests." 2,000 professors say it.

诸如此类的事情，但从根本上来说，为什么加州大学的董事会说，“是的，不，我们不会参加标准化考试。” 2,000 名教授都这么说。

There's also a bunch of professors who say, "Don't do it." And you get into all these debates on what the role of school is, and then that's in the air.

还有一群教授说：“不要这样做。”你会陷入关于学校的作用是什么的所有这些争论，然后这些争论就悬而未决了。

And then even the learning science, inquiry learning versus direct instruction is a huge religious war around education on which is better.

然后，即使是学习科学、探究性学习与直接指导，也是一场关于教育更好的巨大宗教战争。

And so those kind of things are why it's not obvious.

所以这些事情就是为什么它不明显的原因。

It's also part of being new into the space as coming in.

这也是新进入这个领域的一部分。

Part of my magic is, and part of why Alpha's getting all this hype and talk is we're teaching kids five to 10 times faster.

我的魔力之一是，Alpha 受到如此大肆宣传和谈论的部分原因是我们教孩子的速度快了 5 到 10 倍。

There is a set of the learning science that hasn't-

有一套学习科学还没有——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, the results are there.

是的，结果就在那里。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

The results are there.

结果就在那里。

And there's a set of learning science that we're proving that hasn't been able to be implemented before.

我们正在证明一套以前无法实施的学习科学。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

That people are like, "Wow, if that's really true." And so why all these great learning scientists are coming and working with us is they're looking at this data, and they're like, "Holy cow, this data is breakthrough level that we couldn't do before."

人们会说，“哇，如果这是真的的话。”因此，为什么所有这些伟大的学习科学家来到我们这里并与我们合作，是因为他们正在查看这些数据，他们会说，“天哪，这些数据是我们以前无法做到的突破性水平。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Yeah.

是的。

I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.

我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。

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AG1 刚刚推出了名为 AG1 Pro 的最新配方，现在您首次订阅可享受 20% 的额外折扣。

AG1 takes the clinically backed AG1 formula, which is a blend of vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and adaptogens, and adds three important new ingredients, creatine monohydrate, calcium HMB, and zinc carnosine.

AG1 采用经过临床支持的 AG1 配方，该配方混合了维生素、矿物质、益生菌和适应原，并添加了三种重要的新成分：一水肌酸、HMB 钙和肌肽锌。

It has five grams of creatine monohydrate to support muscle strength and performance, along with brain health, calcium HMB to support muscle recovery and reduce muscle breakdown, and zinc carnosine to support and improve the lining of your gut.

它含有 5 克一水肌酸，可支持肌肉力量和性能，促进大脑健康；HMB 钙可支持肌肉恢复并减少肌肉分解；肌肽锌可支持和改善肠道内壁。

Some of these ingredients I personally was already taking separate from the AG1 formula, so it's great to see all three of them now in the new AG1 Pro.

其中一些成分我个人已经从 AG1 配方中分离出来，所以很高兴看到这三种成分现在都出现在新的 AG1 Pro 中。

As you may know, I've been taking AG1 every single day for about 14 years now.

如您所知，我每天服用 AG1 已有大约 14 年了。

That means I discovered it and started taking it daily long before I even knew what a podcast was.

这意味着我早在知道播客是什么之前就发现了它并开始每天服用它。

I continue to take it and back it here on the podcast because it is an excellent formula, and it's now even better with the AG1 Pro formula.

我继续在播客上使用它并返回它，因为它是一个出色的公式，而且现在使用 AG1 Pro 公式甚至更好。

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在有限的时间内，您可以通过访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 并使用代码 Back2Routine 获得首次订阅 AG1 Pro 的额外 20% 折扣。

So that's with a numeral two, Back, numeral two, Routine.

这就是数字二，“后退”，数字二，“例行公事”。

Just go to drinkag1.com/huberman.

只需访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman。

Today's episode is also brought to us by Helix Sleep.

今天的节目也是由 Helix Sleep 为我们带来的。

Helix Sleep makes mattresses and pillows that are customized to your unique sleep needs.

Helix Sleep 生产根据您独特的睡眠需求定制的床垫和枕头。

Now, I've spoken many times before on this and on other podcasts about the fact that getting a great night's sleep is the foundation of mental health, physical health, and performance.

现在，我之前曾多次在这个播客和其他播客上谈到这样一个事实：睡个好觉是心理健康、身体健康和表现的基础。

When we aren't getting great sleep on a consistent basis, everything suffers.

当我们不能持续获得良好的睡眠时，一切都会受到影响。

And when we are sleeping well and enough, our mental health, physical health, and performance in all endeavors improve markedly.

当我们睡眠充足且良好时，我们的心理健康、身体健康和所有努力的表现都会显着改善。

Now, the mattress you sleep on makes a huge difference in the quality of sleep that you get each night.

现在，您所睡的床垫会对您每晚的睡眠质量产生巨大影响。

How soft it is or how firm it is all play into your comfort and need to be tailored to your unique sleep needs.

它的柔软度或硬度都会影响您的舒适度，并且需要根据您独特的睡眠需求进行定制。

If you go to the Helix website, you can take a brief two-minute quiz, and it will ask you questions such as, "Do you sleep on your back, your side, or your stomach?" Maybe you know, maybe you don't.

如果你访问 Helix 网站，你可以做一个两分钟的简短测验，它会问你一些问题，比如“你睡的是仰卧、侧卧还是俯卧？”也许你知道，也许你不知道。

"Do you tend to run hot or cold during the night?" Things of that sort.

“你晚上容易发热还是怕冷？”诸如此类的事情。

You answer those questions, and Helix will match you to the ideal mattress for you.

您回答这些问题，Helix 将为您匹配理想的床垫。

For me, that turned out to be the Dusk, D-U-S-K, mattress.

对我来说，这就是 Dusk、D-U-S-K 床垫。

I've been sleeping on a Dusk mattress for more than four years now, and it's been far and away the best sleep that I've ever had.

我已经在 Dusk 床垫上睡了四年多了，这无疑是我睡过的最好的睡眠。

If you'd like to try Helix, you can go to helixsleep.com/huberman, take that two-minute sleep quiz, and Helix will match you to a mattress that's customized for you.

如果您想尝试 Helix，可以访问 helixsleep.com/huberman，参加两分钟的睡眠测验，Helix 将为您匹配专为您定制的床垫。

Right now, Helix is giving up to 27% off their entire site.

目前，Helix 整个网站提供高达 27% 的折扣。

Helix has also teamed up with TrueMed, which allows you to use your HSA, FSA dollars to shop Helix's award-winning mattresses.

Helix 还与 TrueMed 合作，允许您使用 HSA、FSA 美元购买 Helix 屡获殊荣的床垫。

Again, that's helixsleep.com/huberman to get up to 27% off.

再次强调，helixsleep.com/huberman 提供高达 27% 的折扣。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

When you think about science and the development of sciences, chemistry, biology, physics, they had times which I'd call like education, where there's debates and it's Galileo's trial, right?

当你思考科学和科学、化学、生物学、物理学的发展时，他们有过我称之为教育的时代，那里有辩论，有伽利略的审判，对吗？

It's unsure.

还不确定。

Doctors are bloodletting and leeching people.

医生正在给人们放血和吸血。

This is really a good idea.

这确实是个好主意。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Phlegning.

弗莱宁。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right.

对。

And you're just like, "Oh, this is really good."

你就会说，“哦，这真的很棒。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Phrenology.

颅相学。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right.

对。

No, that's the best guy, and he's saying to do it.

不，那是最好的人，他说要这么做。

The same way you're like, "Oh-"

就像你一样，“哦——”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There's a little bit of that going on now still.

现在仍然有一些这样的事情发生。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

It's unsettled.

局势未定。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Now, in each of those, there was the invention of an instrument and a technology or an instrument that radically changed and inflected those sciences.

现在，每一个领域都发明了一种仪器和一项技术，或者一种仪器，从根本上改变和影响了这些科学。

So the microscope, right, the light microscope, the telescope, chemistry, the analytical balance.

所以显微镜，对，光学显微镜，望远镜，化学，分析天平。

You didn't blow yourself up.

你没有炸死自己。

Those inflected those sciences.

那些影响了那些科学。

And now, for the first time, with education, AI allows us to get, it allows that finer measurements.

现在，通过教育，人工智能第一次让我们能够进行更精细的测量。

What those allowed was finer grain measurements, right?

这些允许的是更精细的颗粒测量，对吗？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

The microscope let me see cells, right?

显微镜让我看到细胞，对吗？

I'm like, "Oh, I'm starting to understand this, of how this works." AI, because it's on a one-to-one basis, is giving us a data loop that nobody in learning science, no one in education has ever had.

我想，“哦，我开始理解这个，理解它是如何工作的了。”人工智能，因为它是一对一的基础，为我们提供了一个数据循环，这是学习科学、教育领域的人从未拥有过的。

And we have it.

我们有它。

It's a closed loop.

这是一个闭环。

And that magical data loop is what's allowing us to get the five to ten times improvements in education because it's our microscope, it's our telescope.

这个神奇的数据循环使我们的教育水平提高了五到十倍，因为它是我们的显微镜，是我们的望远镜。

Now, it's not a chatbot.

现在，它不是聊天机器人。

That's not getting you that.

那不是让你这样。

But if you generate a personalized lesson for every kid.

但如果你为每个孩子提供个性化的课程。

Let's step back and say, what's a teacher in front of a classroom?

我们退一步来说，教室前面的老师是什么？

The problem with a teacher in front of a classroom is it's so dirty, right?

老师在教室前面的问题是太脏了，对吧？

Your data, your effect size is driven by random classroom elements, not the learning science.

你的数据、你的效应大小是由随机的课堂元素驱动的，而不是学习科学。

So if I come up with a learning science idea and I give it to a teacher in front of a classroom, first of all, do they even teach it the way, right?

因此，如果我想出一个学习科学的想法，然后在课堂上把它交给老师，首先，他们是否会这样教它，对吗？

Is the instruction done the right way?

指示是否以正确的方式完成？

It's going to 30 people.

人数将达到 30 人。

Prereq matters.

先决条件很重要。

If I don't know algebra, don't give me a chemistry lesson.

如果我不懂代数，就不要给我上化学课。

And do the students have the prerequisites needed?

学生是否具备所需的先决条件？

Second, are the students motivated?

第二，学生的积极性如何？

Are they spinning in their chair, not even paying attention?

他们是否在椅子上打转，甚至没有注意？

The effect size is dominated by all of that, not actually the learning science concept.

效果大小是由所有这些决定的，实际上并不是学习科学概念。

And in our world, right, where we have kids super engaged for two hours in the app, I know when I give a lesson, I can measure their engagement.

在我们的世界里，孩子们在应用程序中投入了两个小时，我知道当我上课时，我可以衡量他们的参与度。

I can see if that lesson was good because I know how they did on the questions right afterward.

我可以看出这堂课是否好，因为我知道他们随后的问题表现如何。

I can then test them later because I'm getting spaced repetition.

然后我可以稍后测试它们，因为我得到了间隔重复。

I'm getting recall later.

稍后我会回忆起来。

I can say whether that really was transferred to long-term memory.

我可以说这是否真的被转移到了长期记忆中。

And I can say, "Wow, that really works." So there's different theories of learning science.

我可以说，“哇，这确实有效。”所以有不同的学习科学理论。

There's concepts of direct instruction, like should you have the kids struggle or should you just teach them directly?

有直接指导的概念，比如你应该让孩子们挣扎还是应该直接教他们？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

How can you teach them directly without struggle?

你怎么能不费劲地直接教他们呢？

My understanding of neuroplasticity-

我对神经可塑性的理解——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

which is an area I come from-

这是我来自的地区-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

but not specifically in the context of education, is that if a brain or a body can execute a particular thing, a movement or a cognitive process, a math problem, there is no reason for it to change.

但在教育背景下，如果大脑或身体能够执行特定的事情、运动或认知过程、数学问题，那么它就没有理由改变。

That the error signal is what actually drives the opportunity for change.

错误信号实际上推动了变革的机会。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so without errors, there's no struggle, and therefore, without struggle, there's no learning.

因此，没有错误，就没有斗争，因此，没有斗争，就没有学习。

So I don't see a world where you can teach without a kid or an adult-

So I don't see a world where you can teach without a kid or an adult-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Sure

当然可以

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

feeling some degree of mild agitation.

感到某种程度的轻微烦躁。

They might learn to think of that as excitement and curiosity.

他们可能会学会将其视为兴奋和好奇。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right.

对。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But there's got to be some level of arousal, like I have to think, right?

但必须有一定程度的兴奋，就像我必须想的那样，对吧？

Got to be brought to the edge.

必须被带到边缘。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Engagement.

订婚。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yes.

是的。

Engagement and attention, right?

参与度和关注度，对吗？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Right.

对。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

You have to have engagement and attention, exactly what you're talking about, and errors definitely do matter.

You have to have engagement and attention, exactly what you're talking about, and errors definitely do matter.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And we can talk about that side.

我们可以谈谈那一方面。

But let's just take an example, which is I'll give you a math problem.

但我们举个例子，我给你出一道数学题。

No instruction.

没有指示。

Figure it out.

弄清楚吧。

That's one way to try to learn.

这是尝试学习的一种方法。

The better way to learn, the faster way to learn is to give them a worked example where you show them, and then you progressively remove the parts of the example where they're having to progressively go up, and then by the end, they can solve the problem with no scaffolding.

更好、更快的学习方法是给他们一个可行的示例，向他们展示，然后逐步删除示例中他们必须逐步向上的部分，最后，他们可以在没有脚手架的情况下解决问题。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

It's a question of scaffolding.

这是脚手架的问题。

And that's a faster way to teach kids-

这是一种更快的教育孩子的方法-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm

嗯嗯

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

than just saying, "Good luck."

而不是仅仅说“祝你好运”。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So it's, in some sense, incremental learning with an example at the front end.

因此，从某种意义上说，它是前端示例的增量学习。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Exactly.

正是如此。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay.

好的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And so that would be, a worked example is a good example.

所以，一个有效的例子就是一个很好的例子。

Then you have spaced repetition, which is everybody has a forgetting curve, and they're different by person.

然后是间隔重复，即每个人都有遗忘曲线，而且因人而异。

Back to that frontier curve.

回到那条边界曲线。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And so how often?

那么多久一次呢？

And right before you're going to forget it, you want to remind them.

And right before you're going to forget it, you want to remind them.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And if you do that over a few times, then it gets your recall-

如果你这样做几次，你就会回忆起来——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm

嗯嗯

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

from long-term memory.

来自长期记忆。

It will be there when you need it in the future.

当你将来需要的时候它就会在那里。

And so I have worked examples and then spaced repetition.

And so I have worked examples and then spaced repetition.

Now- There's a debate, and there has been a debate about do you need some drill and kill, known as initial mastery, that you have to hit it with initial mastery the first time you're learning it, or can you not learn it to mastery, but because of spaced repetition over time, by the third or fourth time, you'll get the equivalent of mastery.

现在-有一个争论，关于你是否需要一些练习和杀戮，即所谓的初步掌握，你必须在第一次学习它时就必须通过初步掌握来击中它，或者你不能学习它以掌握它，但由于随着时间的推移间隔重复，到第三次或第四次，你将获得相当于掌握的程度。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And you're defining mastery as like 95% or better?

您将掌握程度定义为 95% 或更高？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Correct.

正确。

And so that's been a debate around it.

所以这一直是围绕它的争论。

You can't measure that in a school.

你无法在学校里衡量这一点。

That's too fine-grained.

这也太细粒度了吧

We actually measured it over the last year, and our learning scientists actually, because of the papers that's published, is very much you don't need initial mastery.

我们实际上在去年对其进行了测量，并且我们的学习科学家实际上，由于已发表的论文，您不需要初步掌握。

You can do it with spaced repetition.

你可以通过间隔重复来做到这一点。

And what's interesting is at the end of the year, we were looking at our scores, and basically in eighth through 12th, we crushed it with just worked examples and spaced repetition.

有趣的是，到了年底，我们查看了我们的分数，基本上在第八到第十二名中，我们仅通过练习示例和间隔重复就碾压了它。

Because once you get into algebra, the multi-line problems, worked examples really matter.

Because once you get into algebra, the multi-line problems, worked examples really matter.

But in fourth through seventh, it wasn't as effective because the problems are easier.

但在第四到第七，它并不那么有效，因为问题更容易。

And so what you lose is you want more initial mastery because the worked examples aren't as important.

And so what you lose is you want more initial mastery because the worked examples aren't as important.

And so like this year, when we saw the scores go down, we then just added initial mastery back to it.

And so like this year, when we saw the scores go down, we then just added initial mastery back to it.

So you get the worked example, you get the initial mastery, and then spaced repetition.

所以你得到了有效的例子，你得到了初步的掌握，然后间隔重复。

And that data set between those two things, that's a data set that doesn't exist out there.

And that data set between those two things, that's a data set that doesn't exist out there.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And it seems to me that data set would be very valuable for schools outside of Alpha School, just to understand that for whatever it is that kids are generally taught in the curriculum of you said fourth to seventh-

在我看来，数据集对于阿尔法学校以外的学校来说非常有价值，只要了解无论是什么，孩子们通常都会在你所说的第四到第七的课程中接受教育-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

that they need to get to 95% or better proficiency.

that they need to get to 95% or better proficiency.

English literature, calculus, things like that, if they're learning those things.

英国文学、微积分、诸如此类的东西，如果他们正在学习这些东西的话。

You're saying if they don't need to get to mastery, where do they need to get to?

You're saying if they don't need to get to mastery, where do they need to get to?

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

They need to get to mastery all the time.

他们需要始终掌握。

Initial mastery always matters.

最初的掌握总是很重要的。

Just it always does.

总是如此。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay.

好的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And so whether it's learning your vocabulary words, to that example, reading comprehension is a function of vocabulary.

因此，无论是学习词汇，还是以词汇为例，阅读理解都是词汇的函数。

We can measure now.

我们现在可以测量。

Today, the best way to do well on SAT English or to know English is just read lots of books.

如今，取得好 SAT 英语或了解英语的最佳方法就是阅读大量书籍。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And look up the words you don't understand.

还有不懂的单词就查一下。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And go-

然后去——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And you'll kill the verbal.

你会扼杀言语。

You'll just-

你只会——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

You'll kill it.

你会杀了它。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Like with the verbal GRE, it's always a little tricky with people in the sciences.

Like with the verbal GRE, it's always a little tricky with people in the sciences.

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

They're like, "I'm worried about the verbal GRE," and you just go, "Read a book, a good book, and underline every word you don't understand, look it up, and then have a vocabulary list."

他们会说，“我担心 GRE 口语考试”，然后你就去，“读一本书，一本好书，在你不明白的每个单词下划线，查一下，然后就有一个词汇表。”

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Exactly.

正是如此。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I still have those vocabulary lists.

我仍然保留着那些词汇表。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And everyone ends up in the 90th plus percentile if they actually do that.

如果他们真的这样做的话，每个人最终都会达到 90% 以上。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Correct.

正确。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

That's why good schools who do well on the SAT have a great lit program.

That's why good schools who do well on the SAT have a great lit program.

They have a great books program and, "Here, look at our book list.

They have a great books program and, "Here, look at our book list.

This is what all the kids read," because that's what's going to drive vocabulary, which drives those scores.

这就是所有孩子都读的内容，”因为这将推动词汇量的增长，进而推动分数的增长。

It drives knowledge acquisition as well.

它也推动了知识的获取。

In our apps, we can literally determine, okay, well, we can teach you the vocabulary words.

In our apps, we can literally determine, okay, well, we can teach you the vocabulary words.

We've actually learned the problem that you have is when you take a vocabulary word and it's just like a flashcard-like vocabulary word, you don't know its limits.

我们实际上已经了解到您遇到的问题是，当您使用一个词汇表时，它就像一个抽认卡一样的词汇表，您不知道它的局限性。

What's the difference between happy and ecstatic?

What's the difference between happy and ecstatic?

And if you just are flashcarding, you really can't tell the range.

And if you just are flashcarding, you really can't tell the range.

That's what you get from reading books.

这就是你从读书中得到的。

When you read 10,000 pages, you then are like, "Ah, I now understand the difference between ecstatic and happy." Where are the boundaries of the vocabulary words?

当你读完 10,000 页时，你会说，“啊，我现在明白欣喜若狂和快乐之间的区别了。”词汇的边界在哪里？

And that's how you build a rich vocabulary and a rich reading comprehension and capability.

这就是你如何建立丰富的词汇量以及丰富的阅读理解和能力。

That's one of the things like in our apps now, we can just be like, "Oh, we can give you vocabulary words and show you the limits and help educate you directly," where it's a more effective way than read the book and go look it up when you don't know it.

这就是我们现在的应用程序中的一件事，我们可以说，“哦，我们可以为您提供词汇，向您展示其局限性，并帮助直接教育您”，这是比阅读书籍并在您不知道时查找它更有效的方法。

And so back to all these different things, initial mastery matters just on everything.

回到所有这些不同的事情，最初的掌握对所有事情都很重要。

Let's even go further.

让我们更进一步。

There's sort of concepts which is have you solved it once?

有一些概念你解决过一次吗？

Have you done it enough to mastery?

你已经做到足够掌握了吗？

Which is I can do three easy problems, or I can do 10 hard ones.

也就是说我可以做 3 个简单的问题，或者我可以做 10 个困难的问题。

The 10 hard ones is mastery.

10个难点就是精通。

And then even if I can do the 10 hard ones, can I do it a month later?

那么即使我能做10个难的，一个月后我能做吗？

Did I cram the night before?

我前一天晚上补习了吗？

Because cramming's bad.

因为临时抱佛脚是不好的。

Can I do it one month before, two months before?

可以提前一个月、两个月做吗？

Spaced repetition covers that.

间隔重复涵盖了这一点。

There's a third dimension that really matters, and this is back to cognitive science, which is the way the brain works is you have a certain number of working memory slots, and then you have long-term memory.

还有一个真正重要的第三个维度，这又回到了认知科学，这就是大脑的工作方式，你有一定数量的工作记忆槽，然后你就有了长期记忆。

And your working memory slots are limited.

而且你的工作记忆空间是有限的。

You have limited attention.

你的注意力有限。

That's computing.

这就是计算。

That's where you're thinking.

这就是你在想的地方。

And the concept is, though, of fluency is this magical concept about brain science.

然而，流畅性的概念是关于脑科学的神奇概念。

It's magical, which is if you memorize something to fluency, when you use it, it doesn't take a working memory slot.

这很神奇，如果你能流利地记住一些东西，当你使用它时，它不会占用工作记忆槽。

When working memory slots are a function of IQ, it's like the best way to be farther on your frontier curve, independent of whatever your brain chemistry is, which is if I have memorized something to fluency, and here's the example to think about it.

当工作记忆槽是智商的函数时，它就像是在你的前沿曲线上走得更远的最佳方式，独立于你的大脑化学物质是什么，也就是说，如果我能流利地记住一些东西，下面是思考它的例子。

Let's take multiplication tables.

我们来看看乘法表。

And why is algebra hard if I haven't memorized my math facts?

如果我没有记住数学知识，为什么代数会很难呢？

If I know seven times eight is 56, that takes nothing.

如果我知道七乘八等于 56，那就没有什么了。

You just know it.

你只是知道而已。

I have it to fluency.

我已经做到流利了。

If I have to calculate seven times eight, I'm actually using my working memory slots.

如果我必须计算七乘以八，我实际上正在使用我的工作内存插槽。

The problem is I only have a few of them.

问题是我只有其中几个。

So when I'm in algebra, I'm in a multi-step word problem, and I'm using my slots up for something that I can't because I need it for other things.

因此，当我学习代数时，我遇到了一个多步骤的应用题，并且我正在使用我的插槽来做一些我做不到的事情，因为我需要它来做其他事情。

And that's why when kids get to algebra and they start to struggle, the issue's not the algebra.

这就是为什么当孩子们学习代数并开始感到困难时，问题不在于代数。

The issue is the third-grade math facts they didn't learn.

问题是他们没有学到三年级的数学事实。

And the way to fix the problem is not pound them with more algebra.

解决这个问题的方法并不是用更多的代数来冲击它们。

It's to go fix the third-grade problem.

是去解决三年级的问题。

You want the most crazy example we have is we had a girl who's low 700 math SAT.

你想知道我们拥有的最疯狂的例子是我们有一个女孩 SAT 数学成绩低 700 分。

She kept taking the test and kept getting careless errors because then it was like, "Focus, focus.

她一直在参加考试，并不断犯粗心的错误，因为那时就像是，“集中注意力，集中注意力。

You need to focus." And then we figured out you don't know your math facts.

你需要集中注意力。”然后我们发现你不知道你的数学事实。

So we had her go back and learn, right, memorize your multiplication tables.

所以我们让她回去学习，对，记住你的乘法表。

And first of all, back to changing education, you can't convince someone with a 710 that their problem's a third-grade lesson.

首先，回到改变教育的话题，你无法让使用 710 的人相信他们的问题是三年级的课程。

You definitely can't convince their parents, right?

你肯定说服不了他们的父母吧？

That took a lot of motivational pushing on our guides to do that.

我们的导游需要付出很大的努力才能做到这一点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What about the student?

那学生呢？

What was her attitude toward-

她对——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Her attitude's like, "I don't need to do that.

她的态度是：“我不需要这样做。

Look, I'm good in math.

瞧，我数学很好。

I'm in advanced math." 710 is not a bad score.

我在学高等数学。” 710分已经算不错的成绩了。

It's not 800, but it's-

这不是800，而是——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm

嗯嗯

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

but she's like, "It can't be that I need my multiplication tables." And everybody's telling her, "It's careless.

但她说，“我不可能需要乘法口诀表。”每个人都告诉她：“这太粗心了。

You're being careless." She was just running out of working memory slots.

你太不小心了。” She was just running out of working memory slots.

And so she went back, memorized her multiplication tables, and she got a 790 math SAT.

于是她回去背了乘法表，SAT 数学考试得了 790 分。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Which speaks beautifully to what we know about neuroplasticity of learning.

这很好地说明了我们对学习神经可塑性的了解。

Like you're saying, memories, people always go, "Oh, it's like the hippocampus."

就像你说的，回忆，人们总是会说，“哦，它就像海马体。”

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's passed to the cortex, the fluency piece.

它被传递到大脑皮层，即流畅的部分。

I think this notion of freeing up working memory slots, maybe we just-

我认为释放工作内存插槽的概念，也许我们只是-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

double-click on that for a second.

双击它一秒钟。

I think people assume, well, even if it would take this-

我认为人们会认为，好吧，即使需要这样——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

this young woman a little bit longer to do the multiplication, then she could then move to the next step of the problem.

这位年轻女士做乘法的时间稍微长一点，然后她就可以继续解决问题的下一步。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There are two issues there, right, as I understand, and you'll tell me that there's probably more.

据我了解，那里有两个问题，对吧，你会告诉我可能还有更多问题。

One is that there's a time pressure-

一是有时间压力——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yep

是的

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

on the test, and the other piece is that we know that ability to focus is also constrained by the things that you're not consciously thinking about.

在测试中，另一件事是我们知道集中注意力的能力也会受到你无意识思考的事情的限制。

Like we know this from the phone, for example.

例如，我们通过电话知道这一点。

I'm curious how Alpha School treats phones.

我很好奇阿尔法学校如何对待手机。

We know that if the phone is upside down on a table, based on a good study, in a bag under the chair, performance drops.

根据一项良好的研究，我们知道，如果手机倒放在桌子上，放在椅子下的袋子里，性能就会下降。

But if it's out of the room, performance is rescued.

但如果它离开了房间，性能就会得到挽救。

It doesn't get better.

情况并没有好转。

And we know that in every case, the student can focus, or the person can focus.

我们知道，在任何情况下，学生都可以集中注意力，或者人也可以集中注意力。

I believe this was done in adults.

我相信这是成年人做的。

But the issue is they don't have enough cognitive space to be able to elaborate on ideas, come up with novel solutions, and things like that.

但问题是他们没有足够的认知空间来阐述想法、提出新颖的解决方案等等。

So it's not really a focus issue, it's that the brain is computing consciously and unconsciously.

所以这并不是真正的焦点问题，而是大脑在有意识和无意识地进行计算。

So my guess is that she could iterate, but that there's some higher order concept is not becoming clear.

所以我的猜测是她可以迭代，但是有一些更高阶的概念还没有变得清晰。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Correct.

正确的。

The number of working memory slots is the number of unique chunks that you can think about, and I'll give a different example, and maybe this also helps.

工作内存插槽的数量是您可以想到的独特块的数量，我将给出一个不同的示例，也许这也有帮助。

You just have a limit, and you run out, and if you're using them for something, you can't use it for something else.

你只是有一个限制，然后你就用完了，如果你将它们用于某些事情，你就不能将它用于其他事情。

And a certain math problem takes a certain number of slots.

某个数学问题需要一定数量的槽位。

So I can predict, are you going to struggle with this math problem, and is it too hard for you based on whether you have fluency or not?

所以我可以预测，你会很难解决这个数学问题吗？根据你是否流利，这对你来说太难了吗？

Even if I know you know the problem, even if you've taught the material and you know how to do it, I can tell whether you're going to struggle.

即使我知道你知道这个问题，即使你已经教授了这些材料并且知道如何去做，我也可以判断你是否会遇到困难。

You can take gifted kids as an example.

你可以以天才儿童为例。

They have the most working memory slots.

他们拥有最多的工作内存插槽。

But every gifted kid goes through this in math, which is they do everything in their head.

但每个有天赋的孩子在数学上都会经历这个，那就是他们在脑子里做所有的事情。

They never write down their work.

他们从不写下他们的工作。

And everybody's always like, "You're going to have to write down and show your work." And they're like, "Whatever, I just do everything in my head." And then every gifted kid at some point in their education hit their wall because there's some math that you just can't do in your head and you have to start writing down.

每个人总是说，“你必须写下并展示你的作品。”他们会说，“不管怎样，我只是在脑子里做所有的事情。”然后，每个有天赋的孩子在接受教育的某个时刻都会遇到困难，因为有些数学你无法在头脑中完成，你必须开始写下来。

And they haven't learned it.

而他们还没有学会。

They've learned all the bad habits.

他们已经学会了所有的坏习惯。

They haven't learned the good habits, the good traits of actually how do I do a multi-step problem where I'm working it down, and they hit a wall, and for the first time, they're like, "I can't do a math problem."

他们还没有学会如何做一个多步骤问题的好习惯和好的特质，我正在解决这个问题，他们碰壁了，第一次，他们会说，“我不会做一道数学题。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Is that one of the reasons why child prodigies don't continue on a linear trajectory to hyper-performance?

这是否是神童无法继续沿着线性轨迹获得超强表现的原因之一？

I was once told by a child prodigy-

曾经有一位神童告诉我——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

because he was referred to as a child prodigy and had done something incredible.

因为他被称为神童，并且做了一些令人难以置信的事情。

I don't want to reveal who this was.

我不想透露这个人是谁。

And he corrected me immediately.

他立即纠正了我。

He said, "Former child prodigy." I was like, "Okay, get it."

他说：“曾经的神童。”我当时想，“好吧，明白了。”

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But he said, "You should look up the data on child prodigies." The outcomes are not super impressive.

But he said, "You should look up the data on child prodigies."结果并不令人印象深刻。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Sometimes, yes, within a very narrow domain, but-

有时，是的，在一个非常狭窄的领域内，但是-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Well-

嗯-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

the outcomes are usually not that impressive as adults.

对于成年人来说，结果通常并不那么令人印象深刻。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

We should go into that-

我们应该深入探讨——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah

是啊

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

on that whole thing.

就整件事而言。

So we have a school that we're building for gifted kids.

所以我们正在为有天赋的孩子建造一所学校。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

A lot of the problems that we have in our current school system is we're not challenging and we're boring these child prodigies.

我们当前的学校系统存在的很多问题是我们没有挑战性，而且我们让这些神童感到无聊。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm.

嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And we're teaching them the worst habits in the world.

我们正在教他们世界上最糟糕的习惯。

And so we're giving them 12 years of the worst habits, and then even their capability can't overcome that.

And so we're giving them 12 years of the worst habits, and then even their capability can't overcome that.

That it's the super gifted athlete who literally has every bad habit in the book, and then you're like, "Oh, now in the MLB, you're doomed." And that is what we do with most of our gifted kids.

这是一位超级有天赋的运动员，他确实拥有书中所有的坏习惯，然后你会想，“哦，现在在美国职业棒球大联盟，你注定要失败。”这就是我们对大多数有天赋的孩子所做的事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm.

嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And we're not teaching.

而且我们不是在教学。

They're not challenged, right?

他们没有受到挑战，对吧？

They sit there, and they're bored, and they can answer every question like this through the program, versus giving them the challenging problem when they're in third grade and fourth grade, and then they're having to learn all the right skills so that they can progress through.

他们坐在那里，他们很无聊，他们可以通过程序回答这样的每一个问题，而不是在他们三年级和四年级时给他们提出具有挑战性的问题，然后他们必须学习所有正确的技能，以便他们能够进步。

And we also, in our culture, we highlight gifted athletes 100 times more.

而且，在我们的文化中，我们对有天赋的运动员的重视还要高出 100 倍。

It's better to be the quarterback on the Westlake football team than it is to be the number one academic kid at that school.

成为西湖橄榄球队的四分卫比成为该校学习成绩第一的孩子更好。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In the US.

在美国。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

In the US.

在美国。

Yeah.

是的。

Foreign's very different-

国外的就很不一样了

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah

是啊

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

for sure, but in the US, that.

当然，但在美国，那是。

So one of the things we're going to do with that program, and we can talk about later, is just find the 100,000 smartest kids in this country and turn them up to 11.

因此，我们要利用该计划做的一件事（我们稍后会讨论）就是找到这个国家 100,000 名最聪明的孩子，然后将他们提高到 11 岁。

If these kids can learn 10 times faster-

如果这些孩子的学习速度能快十倍——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm

毫米

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

let's get it to everybody.

让我们向大家介绍一下。

We started this program.

我们开始了这个计划。

Texas has a voucher program.

德克萨斯州有一个代金券计划。

We have rural Texas kids who, their school, they just don't have access to it.

我们有德克萨斯州农村的孩子，他们的学校就是无法进入学校。

They're joining up this program, and they are crushing through it.

他们正在加入这个计划，并且正在全力以赴地完成它。

And so we're going to get that out broadly across America.

因此，我们将在美国广泛推广这一点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's great.

太好了。

This has always been the dream, like where's the next Einstein?

这一直是梦想，就像下一个爱因斯坦在哪里？

Maybe this Einstein kid, she or he is like, I don't know.

也许这个爱因斯坦的孩子，她或他就像，我不知道。

They don't even know that they have this capability.

他们甚至不知道自己有这个能力。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Exactly.

正是如此。

Our goal is to get these 100,000 kids academically MIT eligible by middle school.

我们的目标是让这 100,000 名孩子在中学阶段获得 MIT 的学术资格。

That's 1580 SATs, fives on Calc BC, Physics C, AP Lang Lit.

That's 1580 SATs, fives on Calc BC, Physics C, AP Lang Lit.

Those kind of things where we're like, "These kids have all this potential.

诸如此类的事情，我们会说，“这些孩子拥有所有这些潜力。

We are wasting it.

我们正在浪费它。

We're boring them, and we should just turn them up." But we think every kid is like that.

We're boring them, and we should just turn them up."但我们认为每个孩子都是这样。

I don't think every kid, back to the frontier-

我不认为每个孩子，回到边境-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm

嗯嗯

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

every kid can't get to MIT eligible by middle school, but the ones who can, we should.

并不是每个孩子都能在中学时获得麻省理工学院的资格，但那些可以的孩子，我们应该这样做。

But we can get every kid in America dramatically better than where they are today in academics.

But we can get every kid in America dramatically better than where they are today in academics.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Well, we can get them to their frontier.

好吧，我们可以把他们带到他们的边境。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Correct.

正确。

We can get them to their frontier.

我们可以把他们带到他们的边境。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And that's what this system does, where you're like, "Well, get them to the frontier," which is reading is just fluency, right?

这就是这个系统的作用，你会说，“好吧，把他们带到前沿”，这就是阅读的流畅性，对吧？

When you're learning how to read, you're struggling because you don't know the words, and then eventually it becomes fluency, and then you don't have to think about it, and you can crush through it.

当你学习如何阅读时，你会因为不认识单词而感到挣扎，然后最终会变得流利，然后你就不必思考它，你就可以碾压它。

And then reading becomes much more fun, much more enjoyable.

And then reading becomes much more fun, much more enjoyable.

And so a lot of this is just we don't do the basics.

所以很多都是因为我们没有做好基础工作。

We need to nail the basics, just like in sports.

我们需要打好基础，就像体育运动一样。

My famous example I always use is if you lose the ball 20% of the time going down the court, the coach is not saying, "Let's work on the dunks and the alley-oops," or even the layups.

我经常使用的著名例子是，如果你在场上有 20% 的时间丢球，教练不会说，“让我们练习扣篮和空中接力”，甚至上篮。

They're like, "Ball handling.

他们就像，“控球。

We're going to get ball handling.

我们要进行控球。

20% is unacceptable.

20%是不可接受的。

15% isn't acceptable." You can't be 85, 80% accurate.

15%是不可接受的。”你不可能做到 85%、80% 准确。

In America, we're like, "You getting a B, man.

In America, we're like, "You getting a B, man.

Move on.

继续前进。

We're moving on to dunks.

我们要继续扣篮了。

You just finished fourth grade at 80%.

你刚刚以 80% 的成绩完成四年级。

Let's get you into that fifth-grade stuff." And the answer is no. No, because then all those problems compound.

让我们带你了解五年级的内容。”答案是否定的。不，因为这样所有这些问题就会变得更加复杂。

And let's go the other way.

让我们换个方式吧。

If you're struggling in chemistry, I can give you an algebra test and tell you how you're going to do in chemistry, because chemistry is basically algebra with cool word problems.

如果你在化学方面遇到困难，我可以给你一个代数测试，并告诉你你在化学方面的成绩，因为化学基本上是带有很酷的文字问题的代数。

And if you don't know algebra, the time to try to learn algebra is not in the middle of a chemistry problem.

And if you don't know algebra, the time to try to learn algebra is not in the middle of a chemistry problem.

You need to know it.

你需要知道它。

And so algebra, I can give you a fraction test.

所以代数，我可以给你做一个分数测试。

Algebra is basically can you do fast manipulation of fractions?

Algebra is basically can you do fast manipulation of fractions?

And so what's your fluency on fractions?

那么你对分数的熟练程度如何？

Fractions are just have you memorized your multiplication and division tables?

分数只是你记住了乘法表和除法表吗？

Math more than anything, but even reading on stuff with vocabulary words, it's all just a layer.

Math more than anything, but even reading on stuff with vocabulary words, it's all just a layer.

And if you don't have the foundation and you just keep pushing kids higher, the learning curves in this country slow down.

And if you don't have the foundation and you just keep pushing kids higher, the learning curves in this country slow down.

If you take our learning curves, relatively, kindergarten, by the time you get to middle school and high school.

如果你看一下我们的学习曲线，相对而言，从幼儿园到初中和高中。

High school, the median student in America doesn't learn anything.

High school, the median student in America doesn't learn anything.

There's a test, there's a bunch of them, but you can use this one, which is NWEA map test.

There's a test, there's a bunch of them, but you can use this one, which is NWEA map test.

It's a 300-point scale.

这是一个300分的量表。

The average eighth grader to twelfth grader goes up one point.

The average eighth grader to twelfth grader goes up one point.

It depends on the subject, but 233 to 234 four years later.

It depends on the subject, but 233 to 234 four years later.

They don't learn anything.

他们什么也学不到。

And the reason is because if I'm in the advanced math, I'm like, "I don't know my multiplication tables." And if I don't know it and I don't know it to mastery, I'm not going to able to progress, and it's going to eventually catch up with me.

And the reason is because if I'm in the advanced math, I'm like, "I don't know my multiplication tables." And if I don't know it and I don't know it to mastery, I'm not going to able to progress, and it's going to eventually catch up with me.

The same way in basketball.

篮球也是如此。

If you said, "I have a player who's a B player, 80% across every function," they're not going to score one point in a basketball game.

If you said, "I have a player who's a B player, 80% across every function," they're not going to score one point in a basketball game.

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Because they're going to miss the pass.

因为他们会错过通行证。

They're going to lose the dribble.

They're going to lose the dribble.

It's just there's too many things you have to put in sequence.

只是有太多的事情需要按顺序排列。

And you put all those things in sequence right around education, and that's it.

And you put all those things in sequence right around education, and that's it.

And before, we just didn't have the system.

以前，我们只是没有这个系统。

Now, an AI tutor can sit there and be like, "I know exactly what you know." Right?

Now, an AI tutor can sit there and be like, "I know exactly what you know."正确的？

"I can give you an assessment.

“我可以给你一个评估。

I can know exactly what you know, what you don't know.

我可以确切地知道你知道什么，不知道什么。

I can give you a lesson personalized to you that says you need this lesson, and then I give it to you.

I can give you a lesson personalized to you that says you need this lesson, and then I give it to you.

And then I'm going to hit you to mastery.

然后我会让你精通。

I'm going to keep you in that loop to mastery.

我会让你一直处于掌握状态的循环中。

And then you're mastery, now I'm like, 'I'm going to let you go on to the next one.'" Last year, right, we starting open lots of campuses and we're high in private school.

然后你就掌握了，现在我想，‘我要让你继续下一所。’”去年，对吧，我们开始开放很多校园，而且我们在私立学校里名列前茅。

So these are kids coming from $50,000 private school.

So these are kids coming from $50,000 private school.

These are our best schools in the country they're coming from.

These are our best schools in the country they're coming from.

The average student, when they transferred into Alpha and took our assessment test, were 2.2 grade levels behind.

The average student, when they transferred into Alpha and took our assessment test, were 2.2 grade levels behind.

And what does that mean?

这意味着什么？

I got in front of all the parents, and I'm like, "Look, this means two things.

I got in front of all the parents, and I'm like, "Look, this means two things.

First, don't freak out.

首先，不要惊慌。

You are going to freak out because we're about to send you the scores, and it's going to show that your eighth grader can't answer some sixth-grade questions, some fifth-grade questions even." And when it got to writing, it was even lower because everybody's been using ChatGPT to write their papers.

你会吓坏的，因为我们即将向你发送分数，这将表明你的八年级学生无法回答一些六年级的问题，甚至一些五年级的问题。”当谈到写作时，它甚至更低，因为每个人都在使用 ChatGPT 来撰写论文。

And so you're going to freak out because you're like, "Oh my god, my kid's two grade levels behind or three grade levels behind." But you're thinking that takes 200 hours, 180 school days, right, and all this.

所以你会吓坏了，因为你会想，“天哪，我的孩子落后了两个年级或三个年级。” But you're thinking that takes 200 hours, 180 school days, right, and all this.

Our average student can do an entire grade level, one subject, between 20 and 30 hours in K through 8.

Our average student can do an entire grade level, one subject, between 20 and 30 hours in K through 8.

Wow.

哇。

Twenty to thirty hours, back to the 10,000-plus-hour rule.

Twenty to thirty hours, back to the 10,000-plus-hour rule.

So they can catch up.

这样他们就能赶上。

Do an hour a day of homework to catch up, and you're three years behind, that's 90 days.

每天做一个小时的家庭作业来赶进度，你就落后了三年，也就是 90 天。

The most positive use case, if you said, "What's the number one thing we could use AI for?" It's not giving kids chatbots that's going to work.

最积极的用例，如果你说，“我们可以使用人工智能来做的第一件事是什么？”给孩子们提供有用的聊天机器人是行不通的。

It's giving them an individualized lesson plan based on their level to catch them up to grade level.

它根据他们的水平为他们提供个性化的课程计划，以帮助他们达到年级水平。

And that would be the single best thing we could do to fix education in America.

这将是我们为改善美国教育所能做的最好的事情。

Let's talk about motivation and why it matters.

让我们谈谈动机及其重要性。

And if you take an eighth grader, you can't go put him in third-grade classes.

And if you take an eighth grader, you can't go put him in third-grade classes.

Right.

正确的。

And if you leave him in an eighth-grade class, he can't learn.

And if you leave him in an eighth-grade class, he can't learn.

She can't learn.

她学不会。

And so we have this system where it's not the teacher's fault.

And so we have this system where it's not the teacher's fault.

They're like, "I have to teach eighth-grade material.

他们就像是，“我必须教八年级的材料。

I'm not teaching the third and fourth grade stuff and the fifth-grade stuff." And so this is where if we gave these person individualized lessons, right?

我不教三四年级和五年级的东西。”因此，这就是我们为这些人提供个性化课程的地方，对吧？

AI could generate individualized lessons for everybody in America, and we could then go catch them up because it's not that hard.

人工智能可以为美国每个人提供个性化的课程，然后我们可以赶上他们，因为这并不难。

It doesn't take that many hours.

It doesn't take that many hours.

It takes lots of hours when you're teaching years ahead of their capability.

当你的教学超出他们的能力数年时，需要花费大量的时间。

It's 20 to 30 hours per grade level if they're motivated.

如果他们有动力的话，每个年级可以花 20 到 30 个小时。

And that's the problem with edtech when we talk about that, of when we talk about motivation's 90%.

当我们谈论这个问题时，当我们谈论 90% 的动机时，这就是教育科技的问题。

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

When we design our schools, we are like, "We need to design a school that they love so that even when it's hard and they don't like the subject..." Look, when you love a subject, it's all easy, right?

当我们设计我们的学校时，我们会说，“我们需要设计一所他们喜欢的学校，这样即使这很困难，而且他们不喜欢这个学科……”看，当你喜欢一个学科时，一切都很容易，对吧？

We don't have to worry about those problems, right?

我们不必担心这些问题，对吗？

They solve themselves.

他们自己解决。

You're like, what about the STEM kid who doesn't want to read the book, right, and doesn't like it, or vice versa?

你会想，那些不想读这本书、不喜欢这本书的 STEM 孩子怎么办，反之亦然？

I have the arts theater middle schooler who's like, "I can't do math." How do we get them to do that?

I have the arts theater middle schooler who's like, "I can't do math." How do we get them to do that?

And that's why we say motivation's 90% of the problem or the solution, because you have to be able to motivate the person to engage with these personalized lessons to learn it.

这就是为什么我们说动机是问题或解决方案的 90%，因为你必须能够激励人们参与这些个性化课程来学习它。

And the first step that we do on that is we show them it's tractable.

我们要做的第一步就是向他们展示它是易于处理的。

When you're like, "I'm three years behind," you're like, "I'm out.

当你说“我落后了三年”时，你就会说“我出局了。”

It's too far.

太远了。

I'm a year behind.

我落后一年了

It's too much work." When you're like, "You're 22 hours behind.

工作量太大了。” When you're like, "You're 22 hours behind.

It's 22 hours." Totally.

已经22小时了。”完全。

Hour a day.

每天一小时。

Totally different message.

Totally different message.

It's just a completely different message.

It's just a completely different message.

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

We are taking kids who are years behind and catching them up because they see it and say, "I can do an hour of homework a day to go fix that problem."

我们正在带领那些落后多年的孩子们，让他们迎头赶上，因为他们看到了这一点，并说：“我可以每天做一个小时的作业来解决这个问题。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Element.

我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Element。

Element is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.

Element 是一种电解质饮料，它拥有您需要的一切，却没有您不需要的东西。

That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar.

这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的比例都正确，但不含糖。

Proper hydration is critical for brain and body function.

适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体功能至关重要。

Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish your cognitive and physical performance.

即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低您的认知和身体表现。

It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.

获得充足的电解质也很重要。

The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are vital for the functioning of all cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.

电解质（钠、镁和钾）对于体内所有细胞（尤其是神经元或神经细胞）的功能至关重要。

Drinking Element makes it very easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.

Drinking Element 可以轻松确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。

My days tend to start really fast, meaning I have to jump right into work or right into exercise.

我的日子往往开始得很快，这意味着我必须立即投入工作或立即锻炼。

So to make sure that I'm hydrated and I have sufficient electrolytes, when I first wake up in the morning, I drink 16 to 32 ounces of water with an Element packet dissolved in it.

因此，为了确保我有足够的水分和足够的电解质，当我早上第一次醒来时，我会喝 16 至 32 盎司的水，并溶解有 Element 包。

I also drink Element dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes.

我还在进行任何体育锻炼时饮用溶解在水中的元素，尤其是在炎热的日子里，当我大量出汗并失去水分和电解质时。

Element has a bunch of great-tasting flavors.

Element 有很多美味的口味。

In fact, I love them all.

事实上，我爱他们所有人。

I love the watermelon, the raspberry, the citrus, and I really love the lemonade flavor.

我喜欢西瓜、覆盆子、柑橘，而且我真的很喜欢柠檬水的味道。

So if you'd like to try Element, you can go to drinkelement.com/huberman to claim a free Element sample pack with any purchase.

因此，如果您想尝试 Element，可以访问 Drinkelement.com/huberman，购买任意产品即可领取免费的 Element 样品包。

Again, that's drinkelement.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.

再次强调，请访问 Drinkelement.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。

It seems to me that one of the really wonderful features of what you're describing is also the removal of the shame component, right?

在我看来，你所描述的真正美妙的功能之一也是消除了羞耻感，对吗？

Yeah.

是的。

Here, we're thinking about and talking about students not as robots because we- Yeah ...

在这里，我们思考和谈论学生而不是机器人，因为我们 - 是的......

tend to, but sort of as these generic young woman, young man- Yeah ...

倾向于，但有点像这些普通的年轻女子，年轻男子 - 是的......

who are gapping in algebra, they're going to learn algebra.

谁在代数方面有差距，他们就要去学习代数。

But there's a whole social, psychological context here.

但这里有一个完整的社会、心理背景。

And I'd like to touch on that just a little bit.

And I'd like to touch on that just a little bit.

Great.

伟大的。

Because as you're explaining Alpha School, I'm seeing and, to some extent, remembering the many times I or others were either not in keeping or were ahead or bored.

因为当你解释阿尔法学校时，我看到并且在某种程度上记得我或其他人很多时候要么不跟上，要么领先或感到无聊。

Yeah.

是的。

I think we've all experienced being in the different positions.

我想我们都经历过处于不同的位置。

Exactly.

确切地。

If every kid is behind in something- Yeah ...

If every kid is behind in something- Yeah ...

or most every kid is behind in something, the idea that you're 22 hours behind in something, that gap can be made up, not in total isolation, but not with peers observing.

或者大多数孩子在某件事上落后了，你在某件事上落后了22小时，这种差距是可以弥补的，不是完全孤立的，但不是在同龄人的观察下。

Right.

正确的。

I have a friend, he's a brilliant and very successful musician.

我有一个朋友，他是一位才华横溢且非常成功的音乐家。

Yeah.

是的。

And he describes an experience in the sixth grade where he got called to the board to do math, and he's dyslexic.

他描述了六年级时的一次经历，当时他被叫到董事会做数学题，而他患有阅读障碍。

And he wrote his seven backwards, and the whole class laughed.

他把七倒写了，全班都笑了。

And he told another friend of mine, they went to elementary school together, maybe that was middle school, but this was in the East Bay, California, and he said, "What happened?" And this older kid said, "Well, if you think sixth grade is hard, seventh grade is way harder." And he told himself at that moment he was terrible at math.

他告诉我的另一个朋友，他们一起上小学，也许那是中学，但这是在加利福尼亚州东湾，他说，“发生了什么事？”这个大一点的孩子说：“好吧，如果你认为六年级很难，那么七年级就更难了。”在那一刻他告诉自己他的数学很糟糕。

Yeah.

是的。

Turns out he's brilliant in music, and he's actually exceptional in math because music and math- Yeah, very much ...

事实证明他在音乐方面很出色，而且他在数学方面实际上也很出色，因为音乐和数学 - 是的，非常......

certain music is very mathematical.

certain music is very mathematical.

So these key moments in people's childhood- Yeah ...

所以人们童年的这些关键时刻 - 是的......

getting picked last for the kickball team or what- Yeah.

最后被选为足球队之类的——是的。

You hear these.

你听到这些。

I'm not trying to diminish those examples, but the psychological component is something that really gets embedded in people, and it can set their trajectory off from finding their frontier in a major way.

我并不是想淡化这些例子，但心理成分确实根植于人们的内心，它可以在很大程度上偏离他们寻找前沿的轨迹。

So what you're describing- 100% ...

So what you're describing- 100% ...

is really wonderful because assuming the digital tutor- Yeah ...

真的很棒，因为假设数字导师 - 是的......

is not shaming the student- Right ...

is not shaming the student- Right ...

that's a wonderful thing.

这是一件美妙的事情。

They can go- Yeah ...

他们可以走了-是的...

"Oh, God, I don't know this thing.

"Oh, God, I don't know this thing.

I need to go learn this thing," and can do it, make up the gap- Yeah ...

我需要去学习这个东西，”并且可以做到，弥补差距——是的......

and you're done.

你就完成了。

You are 100% right.

你是100%正确的。

And let's talk about motivation's 90% of the solution.

让我们谈谈动机占解决方案的 90%。

And so let's talk, you had talked before of what are bad standards that we have.

那么让我们谈谈，您之前曾谈到过我们的标准有哪些不好。

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

When we talk about things, we talk about you learn twice as much in two hours a day because that's independent of your starting position, which is a critical part of our motivation, which is to this no shaming.

当我们谈论事情时，我们谈论的是你每天两个小时学到的东西是你的两倍，因为这与你的起始位置无关，这是我们动机的关键部分，对此没有什么可耻的。

Which is when we're sitting there saying you're learning twice as much, it's that eighth grader who needs to be in third-grade material.

当我们坐在那里说你学到了两倍的东西时，八年级的学生需要学习三年级的材料。

First off, he's getting lessons.

First off, he's getting lessons.

Nobody knows he's in third-grade material.

没有人知道他在读三年级的材料。

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

He's learning twice as much.

He's learning twice as much.

It's showing his rate of lesson learning.

这显示了他的学习率。

And so for them, all our students are like, "I don't care where I am because I'm getting my points, right, our motivational model, based on wherever I started from." And back to if I'm learning to X, eventually I catch up to the norm.

因此，对于他们来说，我们所有的学生都会说，“我不在乎我在哪里，因为我得到了我的观点，对吧，我们的激励模型，基于我从哪里开始。”回到如果我正在学习X，最终我会赶上标准。

Now, that's something in our school system that's very bad, which is we measure our schools based on achievement.

现在，我们的学校系统中有一个非常糟糕的事情，那就是我们根据成绩来衡量我们的学校。

And I think this is one of the big problems we have, where this school is below level.

我认为这是我们面临的大问题之一，这所学校的水平较低。

There's two dimensions.

有两个维度。

Are kids at grade level, and how fast are they learning?

孩子们处于年级水平吗？他们学习的速度有多快？

So we should be looking at the slope of the line.

所以我们应该看看这条线的斜率。

You got to look at both, obviously.

You got to look at both, obviously.

Yeah, sure.

是的，当然。

But yes.

但是是的。

Sure.

当然。

But if the slope's enough, they're eventually going to get there.

但如果坡度足够，他们最终会到达那里。

And you should measure a school based on the rate of learning and the slope of the line, the growth rate, not its achievement.

你应该根据学习率和线的斜率、增长率来衡量一所学校，而不是它的成就。

This is why everybody talks about selection effects and if you want to go into that, which is, oh, good schools are just selection effects.

这就是为什么每个人都在谈论选择效应，如果你想深入探讨的话，那就是，哦，好学校只是选择效应。

If I just go get all the best kids, then duh, they're the best, and so my scores are the highest.

如果我只是去招收所有最好的孩子，那么呃，他们是最好的，所以我的分数是最高的。

What we should be measuring schools on is development.

我们衡量学校的标准应该是发展。

Schools are supposed to develop kids.

学校应该培养孩子。

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Right?

正确的？

Not just select them.

不仅仅是选择它们。

And that's why we use growth rate, 2X in two hours, because it doesn't matter where you are.

这就是为什么我们使用增长率，即两小时内增长 2 倍，因为无论你在哪里。

We believe a school's job is to accelerate their growth on lots of dimensions, whether it's academic or life skills, as much as you can, and to measure that.

我们相信学校的工作是尽可能地加速他们在多个方面的成长，无论是学术还是生活技能，并对其进行衡量。

And that's what parents should look at, which is put your kid in an environment where they're going to grow and where they're going to grow at a rate that is independent of their starting location because, to your point, everybody has strengths and weaknesses, and I'm the great academic who's not good on the life skills or the social skills or vice versa.

这就是父母应该关注的，那就是将你的孩子放在一个他们将要成长的环境中，并且他们将以独立于他们的起点的速度成长，因为，就你而言，每个人都有优点和缺点，而我是一个伟大的学者，但不擅长生活技能或社交技能，反之亦然。

I'm the theater kid.

我是剧院的孩子。

And kids' frontier is great across all of them.

孩子们的前沿在他们所有人中都是伟大的。

We have to untap it.

我们必须解锁它。

And when you talk about motivation, one of the elements that we always talk about is what our guides do.

当你谈论动机时，我们总是谈论的要素之一就是我们的导游所做的事情。

What do our adults do?

我们大人做什么呢？

Kids have blocks.

孩子们有积木。

I can't do that.

我不能那样做。

I'm not that kind of person.

我不是那样的人。

I'm not good at that.

我不擅长这个。

I'm not good at that.

我不擅长这个。

And

并且

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

A job of a school and the job of an educator is to break that block.

学校和教育工作者的工作就是打破这个障碍。

It's to crush that block and show the kid that's not a true statement.

这是为了粉碎那个障碍并向孩子表明这不是一个真实的陈述。

You're awesome at that.

你在这方面太棒了。

And when you think about teachers, let's talk about teachers because our schools are going to be are full of teachers, they're always going to be full of teachers.

当你想到教师时，让我们谈谈教师，因为我们的学校将充满教师，他们永远都会充满教师。

AI is not going to replace the role of the human, because the human is the one who does sit there.

人工智能不会取代人类的角色，因为人类才是坐在那里的人。

We had 100,000 people, teachers apply for our roles last year.

去年我们有 10 万人，有老师申请我们的职位。

People want to be Alpha guides and the reason, think of this, the best teacher you had, everybody remembers the one or two teachers who changed their life.

人们想成为阿尔法向导，原因是，想一想，你拥有的最好的老师，每个人都会记得那一两个改变他们生活的老师。

It wasn't because they marked up your paper really well.

这并不是因为他们对你的论文做了很好的标记。

That wasn't what did it for them.

那不是为他们做的。

It was because you had some block.

那是因为你有一些障碍。

They saw you, and they convinced you, you could do so much more.

他们看到了你，并说服了你，你可以做得更多。

They removed that block.

他们移除了那个块。

That's what our guides just do every day.

这就是我们的导游每天所做的事情。

They're like, "Where's the block on this kid, and how do I remove it?" So part of it is, how do you set a system up where just the learning system itself is not based on achievement, it's based on growth rate.

他们会问，“这个孩子身上的障碍在哪里，我该如何消除它？”所以其中一部分是，如何建立一个系统，使学习系统本身不基于成就，而是基于增长率。

And so 2X in two hours as a mechanism.

因此，作为一种机制，两小时内可实现 2 倍。

The other is, what motivations do you have to blow through the blocks?

另一个是，你有什么动机去冲破障碍？

We have a set of three girls who, when they were in middle school, they would've been considered, or they were, they are arts theater girls.

我们有一组三个女孩，当她们在中学时，她们会被认为是，或者她们是，她们是艺术剧院的女孩。

And there's an epidemic in America of middle school girls who are like, "I'm not good at math and science." And they just have this block, and it's cultural, and you read on TikTok that, right, and all these things.

在美国，很多中学生都会说：“我不擅长数学和科学。”他们只是有这个街区，这是文化，你在 TikTok 上读到了这一点，对吧，还有所有这些东西。

And so they just believe they can't do it.

所以他们只是相信他们做不到。

It's just not a true statement, right?

这不是一个真实的陈述，对吧？

The brain I make them go, "Go find me the learning science paper that shows middle school girls can't learn math, science." There are none of those.

我让他们的大脑“去给我找一份学习科学论文，该论文表明中学生无法学习数学和科学。”这些都没有。

They can learn this math, science, and it's middle school level, way back to their frontier.

他们可以学习数学、科学，这是中学水平，回到他们的前沿。

And so what we did is we figure out what's the motivation that will get them there.

所以我们所做的就是弄清楚让他们到达那里的动机是什么。

And my daughter was one of those girls when she was in middle school.

我女儿上中学时就是其中之一。

And when she came in, she's like, "I'm not a top 1% math, science girl, and that's just not who I am." And I was like, "Well, I do know you love to shop.

当她进来时，她说，“我不是数学、科学方面排名前 1% 的女孩，那不是我。”我当时想，“好吧，我知道你喜欢购物。

I bet you 1,000 bucks you can't get to top 1%." And she filled her shopping cart with the $1,000, and every day she went and did the science problems.

我跟你赌 1000 美元，你不可能进入前 1%。”她把这 1000 美元装满了购物车，每天都去做科学题。

And she got to top 1%.

她还跻身前1%。

We use aggressive motivational to break through things.

我们用积极的激励来突破事物。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

We will pay kids straight up, and that's a controversial thing.

我们会直接付钱给孩子，这是一个有争议的事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Tell me more about that.

告诉我更多相关信息。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah, let's talk about it.

是的，我们来谈谈吧。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Nothing controversial on this podcast.

这个播客没有任何争议。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

So we'll pay kids $1,000.

所以我们会付给孩子们 1,000 美元。

So we're like, "Yeah, we'll give you $1,000 to get to top 1%." When kids go to Alpha, we will pay them $1,000 to get to top 1%, because we want to show them you can all get to top 1%.

所以我们会说，“是的，我们会给你 1,000 美元，让你进入前 1%。”当孩子们去 Alpha 时，我们会付给他们 1,000 美元，让他们进入前 1%，因为我们想向他们展示，你们都可以进入前 1%。

There's a whole lot of things when you get into self-determination theory and does it kill motivation.

当你进入自决理论时，会遇到很多事情，它是否会扼杀动力。

It doesn't.

事实并非如此。

And there's a whole another debate about that.

And there's a whole another debate about that.

But just in our world, it doesn't.

但仅在我们的世界中，情况并非如此。

And we believe the research shows why, and we can get into it.

我们相信研究能够揭示原因，并且我们可以深入研究。

But how I would term it is these kids have a block that they can't do it.

但我想说的是，这些孩子有一个障碍，他们无法做到这一点。

You do whatever you can, including paying them, to break through the block.

你会尽你所能，包括付钱给他们，以打破障碍。

They then see themselves as a different person.

然后他们将自己视为另一个人。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Which then creates the intrinsic motivation going forward.

这就创造了前进的内在动力。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

So I'll take my daughter as an example.

那我就以我女儿为例。

Actually, my wife and I were arguing about this.

Actually, my wife and I were arguing about this.

A, you're setting a higher standard, right, to top 1%.

A，你设定了更高的标准，对吧，达到前1%。

Two, you're paying for it.

第二，你要付出代价。

My wife wasn't as excited about that.

我的妻子对此并不那么兴奋。

After my daughter hit it, she went in and she's like, "Mom, I know you didn't like this.

我女儿打完后，她进去说：“妈妈，我知道你不喜欢这个。

You need to understand, it's changed how I see myself.

你需要明白，它改变了我对自己的看法。

I didn't think I was as smart as my older sister.

我不认为我像我姐姐那么聪明。

But now I realize I can do everything she can do if I just put the effort in." And I'm going to emotion about it, but-

但现在我意识到，只要我付出努力，我就能做到她能做到的一切。”我会对此感到激动，但是-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's a beautiful example.

这是一个很好的例子。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

It's that when you're putting things through the loop, try hard things, get them through that motivation, whatever it takes.

当你把事情经历循环时，尝试困难的事情，让他们通过这种动机，不惜一切代价。

Have them see themselves because they experienced it as capable.

让他们看到自己，因为他们觉得自己有能力。

Have a kindergartner climb a 40-foot rock wall.

让一名幼儿园儿童攀爬 40 英尺高的岩壁。

Have a middle school girl say, "I can be top 1%." Those three middle school arts theater girls all got 790 math SATs.

让一位中学生说：“我可以成为前 1%。”这三个中学艺术剧院女孩的 SAT 数学成绩都达到了 790 分。

Didn't have to pay them on that.

不必为此付钱给他们。

They are like, "Oh, I guess I can do math, and I'm able to go there." And so this concept of showing kids they're capable and breaking through whatever their blocks are, whether it's the academic or the life skill side, is the unlock back to growth.

他们就像，“哦，我想我可以做数学，我可以去那里。”因此，向孩子们展示他们的能力并突破他们的障碍，无论是学术方面还是生活技能方面，这一概念是重新成长的钥匙。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

That is what growth is.

这就是成长。

And kids will do hard things.

孩子们会做困难的事情。

They'll grind through it, right?

他们会克服它的，对吗？

And sometimes you have to decide what the motivation is, and even if they're not intrinsically motivated on it.

有时你必须决定动机是什么，即使他们没有内在动机。

They're not intrinsically motivated because they see it as too hard and that's not who they are.

他们没有内在动力，因为他们认为这太难了，而他们不是这样的人。

And so you are figuring out, how do I get you through that?

所以你正在想，我该如何帮助你度过这个难关？

It's that same in athletics.

在田径运动中也是如此。

I'm not a soccer player.

我不是足球运动员。

How do I get you to do the drills?

我怎样才能让你做练习呢？

How do I get the reps?

我如何获得代表？

And so we talk about money on two things on, one, when you're trying to get them to do something hard and break through.

因此，我们在两件事上谈论金钱，第一，当你试图让他们做一些困难的事情并取得突破时。

And second, to do the daily habits, where if I can get the reps in, then I'm going to build a good habit.

其次，养成日常习惯，如果我能让代表参与进来，那么我就会养成一个好习惯。

And so here's another place where we pay.

这是我们付款的另一个地方。

This was one of my hardest problems my first year.

这是我第一年遇到的最困难的问题之一。

So four years ago, I came in as principal, and I'm like, "Okay," to these seventh graders.

四年前，我担任校长，我对这些七年级学生说，“好吧”。

I'm like, "You could all get 100 on the Texas Star, our state test." And these kids are like, "That's impossible, Mr. Lamont." And I have to teach them to hole fill though, to do it.

我说，“在我们州的德克萨斯之星测试中，你们都可以得到 100 分。”这些孩子会说，“那是不可能的，拉蒙特先生。”但我必须教他们如何填补漏洞，才能做到这一点。

Because it's correct, they can't today.

因为它是正确的，所以他们今天不能。

There's no chance they can get one today.

There's no chance they can get one today.

But I need them to go backward and do the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, right, wherever they had holes in their knowledge to get them up to mastery.

但我需要他们向后退一步，做第三，第四，第五，第六，第七，正确的，无论他们的知识有漏洞，让他们掌握。

Because they had mastery gaps.

因为他们在掌握上存在差距。

I then went to their parents.

然后我就去找他们的父母。

I'm like, "We need to go do hole filling with your kid.

我说，“我们需要和你的孩子一起去填补漏洞。

They don't know this material." Seventh graders don't want to go back in fourth grade.

他们不了解这种材料。”七年级学生不想回到四年级。

Parents want it even less.

Parents want it even less.

American parents have been told my kid always has to be at grade level as an educational philosophy, and the learning science does not support that.

美国父母被告知我的孩子必须始终处于年级水平作为一种教育理念，而学习科学并不支持这一点。

But I couldn't convince them, and it's a motivation problem now because I have the kid and the parents who are like, "We're not doing it." And I'm like, "I can't fix that then if I don't get those holes filled.

但我无法说服他们，现在这是一个动机问题，因为我的孩子和父母都说，“我们不这样做。”我想，“如果我不填补这些漏洞，我就无法解决这个问题。

I can't fix this."

我无法解决这个问题。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

So I went to the kids directly, and I was like, "You can get 100 on the seventh grade." And they're like, "No, you can't." And I'm like, "Well, I'll give you 100 bucks if you get 100.

所以我直接去找孩子们，我说，“你们七年级就可以考到 100 分。” And they're like, "No, you can't."我说：“好吧，如果你得到 100 美元，我就给你 100 美元。

100 for 100." So we created 100 for 100.

100对100。” So we created 100 for 100.

They're like, "That's still impossible.

They're like, "That's still impossible.

I still can't do that." I was like, "No, we have a catch.

我还是做不到。” I was like, "No, we have a catch.

Any grade level."

任何年级。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And they're like, "I can take a kindergarten test and you're going to give me 100 bucks?" And I'm like, "Well, the Texas STAR starts in the third grade." And they're like, "I'm in." And they take the third-grade test and get 100 bucks because they got 100 on.

他们会说，“我可以参加幼儿园考试，你会给我 100 美元吗？”我想，“好吧，德克萨斯之星从三年级开始。”他们就像，“我参加了。”他们参加三年级考试并获得 100 美元，因为他们考了 100 分。

And they take the fourth-grade test and get another 100 bucks.

他们参加四年级考试，还能再得到 100 美元。

Then they take the fifth-grade test and get an 85.

然后他们参加五年级考试，得了 85 分。

And I'm like, "Do you want the AI to generate those lessons you missed so you can get 100?" And they're like, "Let me see how many that is." And they're like, "Oh, I can do that this week, sure." Then they get 100.

我想，“你想让人工智能生成你错过的那些课程，这样你就可以得到 100 节课吗？” And they're like, "Let me see how many that is."他们会说，“哦，当然，我这周就能做到。”然后他们得到100。

And then sixth grade, and then seventh grade.

然后是六年级，然后是七年级。

And that's an example of we have to whole fill.

这就是我们必须完全填充的一个例子。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I have huge blocks, society, kids, parents, nobody wants to do what the learning science says.

我有巨大的障碍、社会、孩子、父母，没有人愿意按照学习科学所说的去做。

You pay the kid 100 bucks per lesson, per grade level, and sure, third and fourth grade, that $200 was wasted, but we could go fix our problems for 500 bucks, for 1,000 bucks.

你按照每个年级每节课付给孩子 100 美元，当然，三年级和四年级，这 200 美元被浪费了，但我们可以花 500 美元、1,000 美元来解决我们的问题。

We spend $20,000 per kid in American education.

We spend $20,000 per kid in American education.

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Standard schools, public schools.

Standard schools, public schools.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Every school, yeah.

每个学校都可以啊

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Okay.

好的。

Public, the average public school-

Public, the average public school-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

20,000

20,000

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

spends $20,000 per kid per year.

每个孩子每年花费 20,000 美元。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Per year?

每年？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah, per year.

是的，每年。

So $240,000.

那么24万美元。

We spend a quarter of a million dollars educating a kid.

我们花了二十五万美元来教育一个孩子。

I'm like, let's take all those middle schoolers and pay them 1,000 bucks to get to top 1%, or let's take all those seventh graders and pay them 500 bucks to fill their holes.

我想，让我们给所有那些中学生付 1000 美元，让他们进入前 1%，或者让我们让所有七年级学生付给他们 500 美元来填补他们的空缺。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

By law, actually, public schools can't give out cash to kids.

实际上，根据法律规定，公立学校不能向孩子们发放现金。

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

How does that law get changed?

How does that law get changed?

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Exactly.

正是如此。

How do we change that law?

How do we change that law?

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That seems like a stupid law.

That seems like a stupid law.

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Second, and what's the proxy?

其次，什么是代理？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

What's the other proxy I can give them that they really want instead?

我可以给他们真正想要的其他代理是什么？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Instead, they pay on the back end when they go out into society and hit a wall, right?

相反，当他们走向社会并碰壁时，他们会在后端付出代价，对吗？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

It's the societal optimal thing is just to pay the kid.

社会最优的做法就是付钱给孩子。

A lot of people don't like the whole pay cash stuff.

很多人不喜欢现金支付。

I get a lot of flak from my own alpha parents about it, but it's super effective when that's needed.

我的阿尔法父母对此提出了很多批评，但在需要时它非常有效。

Now, if everybody wanted to whole fill, I wouldn't have to do this, and if everybody understood how important it was, you probably wouldn't.

现在，如果每个人都想完全填满，我就不必这样做，如果每个人都明白它的重要性，你可能就不会这样做。

Whole filling is master the basics, go back.

整个填充就是掌握基础知识了，回去吧。

You're not good at dribbling.

You're not good at dribbling.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Let's go back and work on your dribbling skills.

让我们回去练习一下你的运球技巧。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

That's the sign of a good coach.

这是一个好教练的标志。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The shift in self-perception piece is the most important, right?

自我认知的转变是最重要的，对吧？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yes, 100%.

是的，100%。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because we were talking about the importance of the slope of the line as well as meeting standards, but ultimately, it's that recognition, I can do hard things.

因为我们讨论了线路坡度以及满足标准的重要性，但最终，正是这种认识，我可以做困难的事情。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yes.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Or maybe that phrase should be changed.

或者也许应该更改该短语。

Maybe it should be, I can do what I thought were hard things.

也许应该如此，我可以做我认为困难的事情。

If it's delivered to me in the correct context and the correct way, I can learn.

如果它以正确的上下文和正确的方式传递给我，我就可以学习。

I've spent a lot of time on this podcast over the last, whatever, six years, trying to convince people to get morning sunlight and hydrate and exercise.

在过去的六年里，我在这个播客上花了很多时间，试图说服人们早上晒太阳、补充水分和锻炼。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then I try and teach them neuroplasticity, and I try and not go too deep.

然后我尝试教他们神经可塑性，但我尽量不要教得太深。

But there's this great Max Stillbrook saying, I think it was Max Stillbrook, which was, "Assume zero knowledge and infinite intelligence." The dirty secret is there isn't infinite intelligence, right?

但有一位伟大的马克斯·斯蒂尔布鲁克说过，我认为是马克斯·斯蒂尔布鲁克，他的意思是，“假设零知识和无限智慧。”肮脏的秘密是没有无限的智慧，对吗？

But there's always someplace where somebody has zero knowledge.

但总有一些地方有人的知识为零。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right.

对。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And what you're saying is the motivation piece is really the recognition that learning in one context-

你所说的动机实际上是认识到在一个环境中学习——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

has some similarities to learning in other contexts.

与其他环境中的学习有一些相似之处。

It's going to hurt a little bit, but we don't have to make it hurt a lot-

它会有点痛，但我们不必让它痛得很厉害-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Correct

正确

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

if it's delivered correctly.

如果交付正确。

And forgive me, it seems like a tangent, but being the child of at least one parent who's a first-generation immigrant-

请原谅我，这看起来有点离题，但作为至少一个父母是第一代移民的孩子——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

I was told my entire life how lucky I was.

我一生都被告知我是多么幸运。

You were born at this time.

你就是在这个时候出生的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You're in the United States.

你在美国。

You went to the best public schools, one of the best public schools in the country.

你去了最好的公立学校，全国最好的公立学校之一。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's true, I didn't make as much of it as I could've or should've, but eventually, I like to think I made up...

确实，我没有赚到尽可能多的钱，但最终，我喜欢认为我弥补了......

There's probably still a few gaps.

可能还有一些差距。

Maybe I'll go back.

也许我会回去。

But the point being, I was told by my European relatives, in many countries in Europe, it's just thought you're good at something or you're not good at something and your life trajectory is kind of set.

但重点是，我的欧洲亲戚告诉我，在欧洲的许多国家，人们只是认为你擅长某件事或不擅长某件事，而你的人生轨迹是固定的。

That might be changing now, but the United States has always had this idea that you can become anything.

现在这种情况可能正在改变，但美国一直有这样的想法：你可以成为任何人。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right.

对。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But I do think, as beautiful as the Spud Web examples are, right?

但我确实认为，就像 Spud Web 的例子一样漂亮，对吧？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right.

对。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This quite shorter guy winning the slam dunk competition in the NBA.

这个身材矮小的家伙赢得了 NBA 扣篮大赛。

It sends a complicated message, which is, how hard should we grind, right?

它传递了一个复杂的信息，那就是，我们应该多努力地磨砺，对吧？

I think at the root of almost everything we're talking about today is what should our attitude about suffering be?

我认为我们今天谈论的几乎所有事情的根源都是我们对苦难应该采取什么态度？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because what we're talking about here, learning to suffer to fill in gaps and get better, everyone meets a very high standard.

因为我们在这里谈论的是，学习忍受痛苦来填补空白并变得更好，每个人都达到了非常高的标准。

Or what we're talking about here is there's a different way where actually the suffering is minimal.

或者我们在这里讨论的是有一种不同的方式，实际上痛苦是最小的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So maybe we could just talk for a moment about suffering.

所以也许我们可以谈谈痛苦。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Sure.

当然。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And forget what we believe in the United States or in Europe or anywhere else, and just think, what is your framework to suffering?

忘记我们在美国、欧洲或其他地方的信仰，想想，你的痛苦框架是什么？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because most successful people think, "Yeah, I did hard things.

因为大多数成功人士都会想：“是的，我做了艰难的事情。

I can do hard things."

我可以做困难的事情。”

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Correct.

正确。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We want to pass that on to everybody.

我们想把它传递给每个人。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yes.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But I'm not sure that's the best message.

但我不确定这是最好的信息。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And as much as I love the David Goggins examples, he sat right in this chair where you're at.

尽管我很喜欢大卫·戈金斯的例子，但他就坐在你现在坐的这把椅子上。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's one of our most viewed episodes, and those are beautiful examples.

这是我们观看次数最多的剧集之一，这些都是美丽的例子。

Most people aren't willing to suffer.

大多数人都不愿意受苦。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right.

对。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And maybe suffering isn't the best way to learn for most people.

对于大多数人来说，也许苦难并不是最好的学习方式。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

If I can teach you something and it doesn't require suffering-

如果我能教你一些东西并且不需要受苦-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm

嗯嗯

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

that's better than requiring suffering.

这比需要受苦要好。

If I can teach it to you and you just can learn it and it's easy, we should teach you as much that way as we can-

如果我可以教你，而你也能学会，而且很简单，我们应该尽可能多地教你——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm

嗯嗯

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

and get you through that.

并帮助你度过难关。

Now, back to suffering.

现在，回到苦难。

When is suffering good?

什么时候受苦才是好的呢？

When do people want to suffer, or when do they suffer?

人们什么时候想受苦，或者什么时候受苦？

They suffer when they're doing things that they care about, and this goes back to motivation.

当他们做自己关心的事情时，他们会感到痛苦，而这又回到了动力。

When you talk to people who say, "I have the greatest job in the world," there's a lot of suffering in that job, and they are happy, and they are fulfilled, and they are excited.

当你和那些说“我拥有世界上最伟大的工作”的人交谈时，这份工作有很多痛苦，但他们很快乐、很满足、很兴奋。

There are students who are very motivated academically who suffer and struggle through it because it's doing something.

有些学生在学业上非常有动力，但他们却因为在做某事而遭受痛苦和挣扎。

There's no athlete who said, "Yeah, I never had to struggle.

没有哪个运动员会说：“是的，我从来不需要挣扎。

I never had to suffer." That's not true, but I did it in purpose of something.

我从来不需要受苦。”这不是真的，但我这样做是有目的的。

I was able to do the struggle because I was trying to hit my goals.

我之所以能够奋斗，是因为我正在努力实现我的目标。

And if you look at education how we look at it, K through 5 fundamentally is kids are just trying to make their parents happy.

如果你以我们的方式看待教育，就会发现，从幼儿园到五年级，从根本上来说，孩子们只是想让父母开心。

So if their parents say this, they follow their parents' lead in K through 5.

因此，如果他们的父母这么说，他们就会跟随父母从 K 到 5 的学习。

As soon as they hit middle and high school, it changes, right?

到了初中、高中，情况就变了，对吧？

It's social.

这是社交的。

Dr. Yeager's whole book is middle and high school is about being accepted by the tribe, right?

耶格尔博士的整本书都是关于初中和高中被部落接受的，对吧？

And socialization where and why there was always rites of passage and such, where why a 10-year-old would never do anything to make their parent upset, at 15, they'll do something they know their parent hates if it gets them street cred or social acceptance.

社会化总是有成人仪式之类的，为什么10岁的孩子永远不会做任何让父母不高兴的事情，15岁时，他们会做一些他们知道父母讨厌的事情，如果这能让他们获得街头信誉或社会认可。

And so what you have to decide for parents is starting in middle school, and there's a great book called "Self-Driven Child" that alpha parents read, that you have basically six years, right, or seven years in middle and high school where you're trying to decide one of two things.

所以你必须为父母做决定是从中学开始，有一本很棒的书叫《自我驱动的孩子》，阿尔法父母读过，你基本上有六年的时间，对吧，或者七年的初中和高中，你试图决定两件事之一。

Are you trying to unlock your kid's potential?

您想释放孩子的潜力吗？

Or impose your value system on them.

或者将你的价值体系强加给他们。

And parents are trying to do sort of both.

父母们正试图两者兼顾。

They're like, "I think this is what matters." And a lot of the suffering that is ineffective in education is the kid's just like, "I'm not into this, and you can push me as far as you want, and all I'm going to do is push back harder." And you have that dynamic.

他们会说，“我认为这才是最重要的。”很多教育无效的痛苦就是孩子会说：“我不喜欢这个，你可以把我推到你想要的程度，而我要做的就是更努力地反击。”你有那种活力。

If instead you lean into things the kid loves or they're focused on, they'll do incredibly hard things.

相反，如果你专注于孩子喜欢或他们关注的事情，他们会做非常困难的事情。

And then I believe it's the educational system's design of, well, how do you put those two things together so we can do both, where they learn the hard things that are important, but they also get to be doing the things they love.

然后我相信这是教育系统的设计，嗯，如何将这两件事放在一起，以便我们可以做到这两件事，让他们学习重要的困难事情，但他们也可以做他们喜欢的事情。

And so let's take an example.

让我们举个例子。

Back to motivation's my biggest issue, and it's 90% of my solution.

回到动机上来，这是我最大的问题，也是我 90% 的解决方案。

We have a sports academy where we have kids who are years and years behind academically, bottom 25% in the country.

我们有一所体育学院，那里的孩子们在学业上落后了很多年，在全国排名倒数 25%。

We'll be the largest recipient of vouchers in Texas for families who make less than $65,000.

我们将成为德克萨斯州年收入低于 65,000 美元的家庭获得代金券的最大机构。

And we have a set of kids, we'll have over 1,000 of them, who aren't excited about academics, aren't excited about struggling in academics, haven't done academics basically for years, middle and high school age.

我们有一群孩子，我们将有超过 1,000 个孩子，他们对学术不感兴趣，对在学术上的挣扎不感兴趣，基本上在初中和高中年龄已经很多年没有做过学术了。

And they're in our schools learning faster than the best private schools in the country.

他们在我们学校的学习速度比全国最好的私立学校还要快。

They're learning two X in two hours.

他们在两个小时内学习了两个 X。

And you're like, how do you get them to do that hard thing?

你会想，如何让他们去做那件困难的事情呢？

How are you getting them to do that?

你如何让他们这样做？

Well, first, you make the learning as easy as possible for them in that don't take that eighth grader, age-wise, and put him in eighth grade material when his knowledge grade is third grade and fourth grade and fifth grade.

好吧，首先，你要让他们的学习尽可能简单，因为当他的知识等级是三年级、四年级和五年级时，不要让八年级学生按年龄分组，把他放在八年级材料中。

Don't do that.

不要那样做。

That's impossible.

那是不可能的。

That's not hard.

这并不难。

That's not doable.

那是不可能的。

So give him third, fourth, or fifth-grade lessons, which our individualized lesson gives it.

因此，给他上三年级、四年级或五年级的课程，这是我们的个性化课程所提供的。

So he's like, "Oh, this is now doable." It went from impossible to doable.

所以他说，“哦，现在这是可行的。”它从不可能变成了可行。

Now, I still have to spend the two hours.

现在，我还得花这两个小时。

I have to grind through it.

我必须克服它。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

I have to learn my multiplication tables.

我必须学习乘法口诀表。

I never did.

我从来没有这样做过。

And so we give them the ability to do that.

因此我们赋予他们这样做的能力。

And in our system, for the first time, they're actually in a lesson that's not too hard or not too easy.

在我们的系统中，他们第一次真正上一堂不太难或不太容易的课程。

It's right for them.

这对他们来说是正确的。

But then, ah, I come, I'm not into education.

但是，啊，我来了，我不喜欢教育。

I don't see what's important about it.

我不明白这有什么重要的。

What drives it?

是什么驱动它？

Well, you know what drives motivation is at noon, if they do the two X in two hours, if the AI says, "You've learned enough today because you're on track for two X in two hours," you get to play basketball.

好吧，你知道中午激励的动力是什么，如果他们在两个小时内完成两个 X，如果人工智能说，“你今天已经学得足够多了，因为你在两个小时内完成了两个 X”，你就可以打篮球了。

So I have a school, high school in Dallas.

所以我在达拉斯有一所学校，高中。

Jermaine O'Neal, the six-time NBA All-Star is head of the school.

六届 NBA 全明星球员杰梅因·奥尼尔 (Jermaine O'Neal) 是学校的校长。

I get to go practice.

我得去练习了

They're the number one basketball team in the country.

他们是全国排名第一的篮球队。

And those kids are like, "Yeah, I guess I'm going to do the academics because I want to play basketball, and I want to be on the best basketball team." We have the best baseball team in the country.

那些孩子会说，“是的，我想我要去学习学业，因为我想打篮球，而且我想加入最好的篮球队。”我们拥有全国最好的棒球队。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So that's the 1,000 bucks.

所以这就是1000块钱。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And that's the 1,000 bucks.

这就是那1000块钱。

Sports.

运动的。

We're rolling this out broadly.

我们正在广泛推广这一点。

And it depends on access and how many vouchers are available and things like this and how many they're granted.

这取决于访问权限以及可用的优惠券数量以及类似的事情以及授予的数量。

But, across the state of Texas, there's going to be kids who voucher are able to then say, "I got this new advanced learning that's the best education you can get in America.

但是，在整个德克萨斯州，会有一些孩子在获得优惠券后能够说：“我获得了这种新的高级学习，这是在美国可以获得的最好的教育。

The fastest, better than the best private schools.

最快，比最好的私立学校更好。

And at noon, I'm going to my sports facility, and I'm playing whatever sport I love." And they're gated.

中午，我要去体育设施，做我喜欢的任何运动。”而且他们是有门禁的。

We used to do this a lot in education and back to lowering standards and changing stuff.

我们过去在教育领域经常这样做，然后又降低标准并改变内容。

You used to have to have a GPA minimum to play on after-school sports.

过去，你必须达到最低 GPA 才能参加课外运动。

And that drove a lot.

这推动了很多。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That doesn't exist anymore.

那已经不存在了。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And that has been way watered down for a lot of reasons.

由于多种原因，这种情况已经被淡化了。

And in our schools, we're like, "No, they're gated where you have to do this." And one of the things because of this back to, I can't run a school that delivers this without doing hard things.

在我们的学校里，我们会说，“不，你必须这样做的地方，他们是有门的。”其中一个原因是，我无法经营一所不做艰苦的事情就可以实现这一目标的学校。

On this side, it's the academics.

这边是学者。

The kids are motivated with the sports.

孩子们因运动而充满动力。

But one of the things it allows us to say is that if you go to one of these schools, your odds of a D1 scholarship double because every college coach in the country will tell you, "If I have two equivalent athletes, the one who's the great academic, who's ground, who's done hard things, I want them on my team." And that's a differentiator.

但它让我们可以说的一件事是，如果你去其中一所学校，你获得 D1 奖学金的几率会加倍，因为全国的每一位大学教练都会告诉你，“如果我有两名同等的运动员，一个是学术出色、脚踏实地、做事困难的人，我希望他们加入我的团队。”这是一个差异化因素。

And you're going to double your odds of getting one.

而且你获得这个机会的几率会增加一倍。

So when you look at things, we wake up every day on this hard and struggle and say, "How do we build a school kids love?

因此，当你审视事物时，我们每天都会在这种艰难和挣扎中醒来，然后说：“我们如何建立一所孩子们喜欢的学校？

Love it more than vacation because that's what's going to drive them to do hard things." Now, we, as the adults, have to develop kids and say, "You can't just play and do all the things you want.

比起假期更喜欢它，因为这会驱使他们去做困难的事情。”现在，作为成年人，我们必须培养孩子并告诉他们：“你不能只是玩耍并做你想做的所有事情。

There's requirements.

有要求啊

You have behavioral standards.

你有行为标准。

You can't act that way.

你不能那样做。

No, you don't get your cell phone sitting next to you.

不，你不能把手机放在你旁边。

During the academic part of the day, no cell phones." That actually changes when we get up into the upper high school because we're trying to get them ready for the real world.

在一天的学习时间里，不能使用手机。”当我们进入高中时，情况实际上会发生变化，因为我们正在努力让他们为现实世界做好准备。

So K through 8, no way.

所以K到8，没办法。

As you start to get into high school, you can earn your cell phone because we have to show you out in the real world, there's going to be no one hiding it.

当你开始进入高中时，你可以赢得你的手机，因为我们必须向你展示现实世界，没有人会隐藏它。

And so you should hide it yourself, but we're not going to force it because we have to get you ready.

所以你应该自己隐藏它，但我们不会强迫它，因为我们必须让你做好准备。

But back to all these rules, adults have to set the standards for the kids.

但回到所有这些规则，成年人必须为孩子们设定标准。

This is it.

就是这样。

This is what's great performance.

这就是伟大的表演。

Kids want to do it.

孩子们想做。

They'll go live up to them.

他们会辜负他们的期望。

We're not having trouble on the two hours on the academic side in the sports academy because they're doing what they love.

我们在体育学院的两个小时学术方面没有遇到麻烦，因为他们正在做他们喜欢的事情。

And they see, okay, this all makes sense.

他们看到，好吧，这一切都是有道理的。

This seems like a fair trade.

这似乎是一项公平交易。

And so that's what I believe is that kids will do hard stuff.

所以我相信孩子们会做困难的事情。

Parents, guides, adults, we need to set these high standards for the kids, and they can live up to them if we're helping them be who they want to be, not just pounding them into whatever square peg we think they should be.

父母、导游、成年人，我们需要为孩子们​​设定这些高标准，如果我们帮助他们成为他们想成为的人，而不是仅仅把他们钉在我们认为他们应该成为的人身上，他们就能达到这些标准。

That's the dichotomy.

这就是二分法。

When you talk about mental health issues in high-end elite schools, a lot of it is the kids are being pounded into a cell they don't want, where if instead you're like, "I'm going to help you achieve what you want." But here's the things you have to do to be part of it.

当你谈论高端精英学校的心理健康问题时，很多都是孩子们被关进他们不想要的牢房，如果相反，你会说，“我会帮助你实现你想要的。”但要成为其中的一部分，您必须做以下事情。

I'll give you more examples on this-

我会给你更多关于这一点的例子——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Please

请

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

that we do on motivation.

我们靠动机去做。

So we just announced a high school Our high school program.

所以我们刚刚宣布了我们的高中计划。

So we do our three commitments: love school more than vacation, 2X in two hours, and then third, learn all the life skills you want.

因此，我们履行我们的三项承诺：热爱学校胜过热爱假期，两小时内 2 倍，然后第三，学习您想要的所有生活技能。

And we have five stacks, leadership and teamwork, entrepreneurship and financial literacy, socialization, relationship building, storytelling, public speaking, grit, hard work.

我们有五个堆栈：领导力和团队合作、创业和金融知识、社交、建立关系、讲故事、公开演讲、毅力、努力工作。

We have a stack starting in kindergarten for each one.

我们从幼儿园开始为每个人准备了一堆。

And so when you talk about hard things, our grit, hard work, our kindergartners climb rock walls.

因此，当你谈论困难的事情、我们的勇气、努力工作时，我们的幼儿园孩子们就会攀爬岩壁。

Our second graders all run a 5K.

我们二年级的学生都跑 5K。

By eighth grade, you have to do a Tough Mudder.

到了八年级，你必须参加一场艰难的泥巴比赛。

It's a teamwork one combo, and cross the finish line at the same time as everybody, which is actually the hard part in eighth grade because someone always wants to finish first.

这是一个团队合作的组合，与每个人同时冲过终点线，这实际上是八年级的困难部分，因为总有人想第一个完成。

But it's teamwork and tough, and so you have these standards of grit and hard work.

但这是团队合作和艰苦的，所以你有勇气和努力工作的标准。

But here's one of driving it is on our financial literacy entrepreneurship stack.

但推动这一趋势的因素之一是我们的金融知识创业堆栈。

We just announced, and it's opening this year for the first time, a high school program called Founder's School.

我们刚刚宣布，今年将首次开设一个名为“创始人学校”的高中项目。

It's an entrepreneurial school.

这是一所创业学校。

And its promise is you'll earn a million dollars in profit.

它的承诺是您将赚取一百万美元的利润。

You'll start a business, earn a million dollars of profit, or you get all your tuition back.

你将开始创业，赚取一百万美元的利润，或者收回所有学费。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Each kid?

每个孩子？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Each kid earns a million dollars.

每个孩子都能赚到一百万美元。

And just life skills are trainable just like other skills.

生活技能就像其他技能一样是可以训练的。

And you can teach grit and hard work.

你可以传授勇气和努力工作。

You can teach financial literacy.

您可以教授金融知识。

All of our kindergartners learn how to earn, save, spend, invest, and donate.

我们所有的幼儿园学生都学习如何赚钱、储蓄、消费、投资和捐赠。

And they just start that.

他们才刚刚开始。

Financial literacy is the number one thing parents request that schools don't teach.

金融知识是家长要求的第一件事，但学校却没有教授。

We just start it in kindergarten.

我们从幼儿园就开始了。

And if you go up the stacks, we have middle school kids who are running Airbnbs and launching food trucks.

如果你往上看，我们有中学生正在经营 Airbnb 并推出食品卡车。

We have vending machines.

我们有自动售货机。

They learn gross margin trying to, what products do I put in the vending machines, and how do I get it placed somewhere where I can earn money?

他们试图了解毛利率，我在自动售货机中放入哪些产品，以及如何将其放置在我可以赚钱的地方？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So cool.

太酷了。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

But then a million dollars-

但后来一百万美元——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm

嗯嗯

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

by high school.

到了高中。

It's totally trainable.

这是完全可以训练的。

Alex Hormozi is helping design the program.

Alex Hormozi 正在帮助设计该程序。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, he's perfect for this.

是的，他非常适合这个。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And all the kids love him.

所有的孩子都爱他。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

All the kids wear the little nose thing.

所有的孩子都戴着小鼻子的东西。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah, and they all love him.

是的，他们都爱他。

He's like influencer central, and they are like, "He is the one who I want to learn from."

他就像影响者中心，他们就像，“他是我想向他学习的人。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Very cool.

非常酷。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

But for that, if you go to that website, go to Founder's School website, and you look at the academic standards, they are as hard as any school in this country.

但为此，如果你去那个网站，去创始人学校的网站，你看看学术标准，它们和这个国家的任何学校一样严格。

This isn't going to be creating crypto bros who are just hacking the world to make money.

这不会创造出只是为了赚钱而入侵世界的加密兄弟。

This school is building philosopher builders, is their framework.

这个学派是建设哲学家的建设者，是他们的框架。

And the academics, if you ask AI, analyze this book list, you're like, it's different than a classics book list that you'd get at Exeter or the best schools, but it's not less rigorous.

学者们，如果你问人工智能，分析这个书单，你会说，它与你在埃克塞特大学或最好的学校得到的经典书单不同，但它的严谨性也丝毫不减。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

These kids are like, "I'll absolutely do all that." Coming in, they were not thinking, "This is what I need.

这些孩子会说，“我绝对会做这一切。”进来时，他们并没有想：“这就是我需要的。

This was my path, was to crush academics." But back to the standards, they're like, "I will totally do it because I get to start a business and earn a million dollars, and I get to do what I love."

这就是我的道路，就是粉碎学术界。”但回到标准，他们会说，“我完全会这么做，因为我可以创业并赚一百万美元，而且我可以做我喜欢的事情。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

All the adults listening are like, "I want to go back to school." Right?

所有听的成年人都会说：“我想回学校。”正确的？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

It is.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You probably hear this all the time.

你可能一直听到这个。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

No, it is.

不，是的。

We have an event this weekend for this Founder's School, and we thought there'd be 10 or 15 people who wanted it, and there's 150 people who are showing up.

本周末我们为这所创始人学校举办了一场活动，我们原以为会有 10 或 15 人想要参加，结果实际到了 150 人。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Amazing.

太棒了。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

We literally have people moving to Alphas and cities because they're like, "My 10-year-old's going to go to Alpha, so they're ready for Founder's School" and stuff.

我们确实有人搬到阿尔法和城市，因为他们会说，“我 10 岁的孩子要去阿尔法，所以他们已经准备好进入创始人学校了”之类的。

But focusing on designing a school, we have them for 12 years.

但专注于设计一所学校，我们已经有12年了。

Let's build schools where the kids are like, "I wake up every day, and I rush to school because it's so awesome." And back to Sports Academy, there's a great testimonial where a mom is basically like, "Look, he used to skip school 25% of the time.

让我们建造这样的学校，孩子们会说：“我每天醒来，就赶去学校，因为学校太棒了。”回到体育学院，有一个很好的见证，一位妈妈基本上是这样的，“看，他过去有 25% 的时间逃学。

I could never get him to go to school.

我永远无法让他去上学。

Today, he wakes me up and is like, 'Mom, we can't be late because I got to get my two hours in because I can't keep coach waiting.'" And that whole picture, that's when we look at the problem.

今天，他把我叫醒，然后说，‘妈妈，我们不能迟到，因为我不能让教练等我，所以我必须要花两个小时。’”这就是我们看待问题的时候。

It's not just make kids work harder.

这不仅仅是让孩子们更加努力。

It's be aligned with what they want, and they will willingly work harder.

这与他们想要的一致，他们会愿意更加努力地工作。

And as long as we, as the adults, set the high standards for what that is, they'll totally do it.

只要我们，作为成年人，设定高标准，他们就会完全做到。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So it's suffering with a purpose, and the purpose-

所以它是有目的的受苦，而这个目的——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

is internalized in them.

已内化于他们之中。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yes.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Is what I'm hearing.

这是我听到的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yes.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because parents can try and ram stuff down kids' throats all day long, and that just-

因为父母可以整天把东西塞给孩子们，而那只是——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

creates more resistance.

产生更多阻力。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

It does.

确实如此。

They push back.

他们反击。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And that's one of the beauties of youth is like the rebellion piece that kicks in around puberty is like-

这就是青春的美丽之一，就像青春期左右开始的叛逆作品一样——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

it's an important part of our species-

它是我们物种的重要组成部分——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

evolution, right?

进化论，对吗？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And but parents can help.

但父母可以提供帮助。

Parents want their kids to excel.

父母希望他们的孩子表现出色。

And actually, when kids are excelling, parents change their frame of what they expected.

事实上，当孩子表现出色时，父母就会改变他们的期望框架。

They just sort of have their frame of what they think excellence is.

他们只是对卓越有自己的框架。

But when they see their kid in a different dimension excel, they're like, "That's really great, too." My example was with my dad, which was in academics, I was the total slacker, and I didn't like school.

但当他们看到自己的孩子在不同的维度表现出色时，他们会说：“这也很棒。”我的例子是我父亲，他在学术界，我是个彻底的懒鬼，而且我不喜欢上学。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Things worked out pretty well for you.

事情对你来说进展顺利。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

They did.

他们做到了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

But I didn't like school.

但我不喜欢学校。

I tried to do the minimum possible.

我尝试做尽可能少的事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This was high school?

这是高中？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Well, and I dropped out of college, so sort of both.

好吧，我从大学退学了，所以两者兼而有之。

But, you know.

但是，你知道。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But you left college in part to go create something.

但你离开大学的部分原因是去创造一些东西。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Create.

创建。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

But that's, well, I was busy doing other, like in high school-

但那是，嗯，我正忙着做其他事情，就像在高中时一样——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah

是啊

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

...

...

it's the same thing.

这是同一件事。

I'm doing other stuff.

我正在做其他事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You were driven.

你被驱使了。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And so in high school, I was not academically driven.

所以在高中时，我并没有学业上的动力。

I did the minimum.

我做了最少的事。

I wanted to go to Stanford.

我想去斯坦福大学。

I knew I wanted to go to Stanford, so I'm like, "What's the minimum work I could do?" You'd round up.

我知道我想去斯坦福大学，所以我想，“我能做的最少工作是什么？”你会四舍五入。

An A was a 90 or above.

A 为 90 分或以上。

They only had one thing.

他们只有一件事。

And so I'd be like, "Well, I need an A 9.5." And I would literally be like, "I will do that much work and not one-"

所以我会说，“好吧，我需要 A 9.5。”我真的会说，“我会做那么多工作，而不是一个——”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Precision.

精度。

You were precision.

你很精确。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

"I will not do one more question than I need to to hit that grade to get in." The minimum possible.

“我不会再多做一道题来达到录取分数线。”尽可能的最小值。

If I didn't need to go to school, you didn't see me there.

如果我不需要去学校，你就不会在那里看到我。

Got in trouble for skipping too many times.

由于跳过太多次而遇到麻烦。

And then I got to Stanford, and academically, I was sort of the same way.

然后我去了斯坦福大学，在学术上，我也是这样。

One of the things I was interested in since I've been, I wrote a paper in high school.

自从我开始以来，我一直感兴趣的事情之一是我在高中写了一篇论文。

1985, I wrote a paper on AI.

1985年，我写了一篇关于人工智能的论文。

And it was old school AI, not today's, and neural nets.

这是老式的人工智能，而不是今天的人工智能和神经网络。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

It said, "Neural nets," I had a paragraph, "they're decades away." And so expert systems and ontologies were the thing back then.

它说，“神经网络，”我有一段话，“它们还有几十年的时间。”所以专家系统和本体论就是当时的事物。

And so I then went to Stanford.

然后我去了斯坦福大学。

Professor Feigenbaum was the father of expert systems back then, and he was talking about all these great opportunities.

费根鲍姆教授是当时的专家系统之父，他正在谈论所有这些巨大的机会。

And I'm like, "I can't motivate to go to Spanish class.

我想，“我没有动力去上西班牙语课。

I just can't." And all these other academic classes I'm just uninterested in.

我就是做不到。”我对所有这些其他学术课程都不感兴趣。

And I dropped out And back to my dad and this whole thing about what parents-- My dad was so devastated for my whole academic career because he's like, "You're a total slacker.

然后我就退学了，回到我父亲身边，关于父母的这一切——我父亲对我的整个学术生涯感到非常沮丧，因为他说，“你真是个懒鬼。

You're not meeting your potential.

你没有发挥你的潜力。

You get in trouble at school.

你在学校遇到麻烦了。

You do the bare minimum.

你只做最低限度的事情。

You go to a great school, and you freaking drop out.

你去了一所很棒的学校，然后你就退学了。

You're not even doing your academics." There's a famous quote in Forbes or whatever, where he's like, "You're such a moron," for dropping out.

你甚至没有完成你的学业。” 《福布斯》或其他杂志上有一句著名的话，他在退学时说：“你真是个白痴”。

That was new back then.

这在当时是新鲜事。

That wasn't as common today.

今天这种情况并不常见。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The notion of dropping out.

辍学的想法。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

In the '80s, there weren't a lot of people dropping out.

八十年代，退学的人并不多。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And so he was just devastated by this because he had his frame of what was success.

所以他对此感到震惊，因为他对成功有自己的看法。

Eighteen months later, he was like, "Thank God you dropped out.

十八个月后，他说：“感谢上帝，你退学了。

That was the best thing that ever happened."

这是有史以来发生过的最好的事情。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm.

嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Because in that 18 months, he saw me go to work 100 hours a week.

因为在那18个月里，他看到我每周工作100个小时。

I'm sleeping under the desk.

我睡在桌子底下。

We're doing everything we can to make this startup successful, and we're working like crazy.

我们正在尽一切努力让这家初创公司取得成功，而且我们正在疯狂地工作。

And he's like, "I was so worried that you were a lazy little shit." And he's like, "Thank God you're not."

他就像是，“我很担心你是个懒惰的小混蛋。”他说：“谢天谢地，你不是。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

He just needed to see the gears turn.

他只需要看到齿轮转动即可。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Exactly.

正是如此。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And that is what parents want.

这就是父母想要的。

And so I was a total failure in his book on all the academic side and all those things because he was not seeing what the life skill, the grit, the things that make you successful.

所以我在他的书中在所有学术方面和所有这些方面都是完全失败的，因为他没有看到什么是生活技能，勇气，以及让你成功的东西。

I wasn't demonstrating them sort of through my academic career.

我并没有通过我的学术生涯来展示它们。

And it was only when I dropped out and started my business where he's like, "Ah, my kid's not going to be a loser.

直到我退学并开始创业时，他才说：“啊，我的孩子不会成为失败者。

This is going to be great.

这会很棒。

He's going to do fine.

他会做得很好。

Everything's fine."

一切都很好。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And in our high school, in the afternoons, kids do these project called Alpha X's, which is their passion project for four years.

在我们的高中，下午，孩子们会做这些名为 Alpha X 的项目，这是他们四年来的热情项目。

And they change a lot because kids change their things, but it's what they want to do.

他们改变了很多，因为孩子们改变了他们的东西，但这是他们想做的。

And these kids do amazing things.

这些孩子做了令人惊奇的事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Could you give me some examples?

你能给我一些例子吗？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

So we had one student who is doing Broadway musical because she has four years where in Broadway venues, all the music was sourced off TikTok.

我们有一名学生正在制作百老汇音乐剧，因为她在百老汇演出了四年，所有音乐都来自 TikTok。

She can fill a thousand-person venue with the songs.

她的歌曲可以填满一千人的场地。

They streamed a million streams like the first day it was released.

就像它发布的第一天一样，他们的直播量达到了 100 万。

She's an arts theater girl, right?

她是艺术剧院的女孩，对吗？

And she had to learn legal rights, music rights.

她必须学习合法权利、音乐权利。

She got in a big fight with one of the TikTok singers because in the audition, she picked somebody else first, and this person with millions of views is like, "I will ruin you."

她与一位 TikTok 歌手发生了一场大争执，因为在试镜时，她先选择了其他人，而这个拥有数百万浏览量的人就像是，“我会毁了你。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's a life education.

这就是生命教育。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And all these things.

还有所有这些事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yep.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And she's 16 and 17, and the parents are like, "This is the greatest thing ever." And she was one of the 790 girls.

她分别 16 岁和 17 岁，父母说：“这是有史以来最伟大的事情。”而她，就是790个女孩中的一员。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Got into Northwestern and NYU and UC and UCLA and all that stuff.

进入西北大学、纽约大学、加州大学、加州大学洛杉矶分校等等。

But she was doing what she loved and had to do hard things, and that taught her what grit and hard work and hard things are, which made it easier when she has to do hard things in other domains.

但她正在做她喜欢做的事情，并且必须做困难的事情，这教会了她什么是勇气、努力工作和困难的事情，这让她在其他领域必须做困难的事情时变得更容易。

Other examples, we'll have the first high school student lead researcher published in "Nature."

其他例子，我们将在《自然》杂志上发表第一个高中生首席研究员的文章。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's no small feat.

这可不是一件小事。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And so peer-reviewed-

所以经过同行评审-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

For those, I think some people probably heard of this, but there's sort of like two apex journals is "Nature" and "Science." These are international journals.

对于这些，我想有些人可能听说过这个，但是有两种顶级期刊是“自然”和“科学”。这些是国际期刊。

The rejection rate for even reviewing a paper up front is about 90-plus percent, and then so the final acceptance rate is somewhere around 1% or less.

即使是预先审阅一篇论文，拒绝率也约为 90% 以上，因此最终的接受率约为 1% 或更低。

Many scientists will go their entire career without ever publishing one, and if they do, you should ask them where they were on the author line.

许多科学家在他们的整个职业生涯中都没有发表过一篇文章，如果他们这样做了，你应该问他们在作者行中的位置。

So a lead-

所以一个线索——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

being first or last on the author line is truly an accomplishment.

成为作者行中的第一个或最后一个确实是一项成就。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

She trained an LLM in social emotional advice.

她接受了社会情感咨询方面的法学硕士学位。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Because there's a view of AIs are terrible.

因为有人认为人工智能很糟糕。

AIs can be good or bad, and obviously, if you use them as chatbots, they're bad in education.

人工智能可能好也可能坏，显然，如果你将它们用作聊天机器人，它们在教育方面就很糟糕。

If you get addicted to them, it's bad on the social emotional side.

如果你对它们上瘾，这对社交情感方面来说是不好的。

But they can be trained and done well the other side.

但他们可以在另一边接受训练并做得很好。

The interesting part of the study was she trained an LLM to give teens social emotional advice, but it won't be as good as parents.

这项研究有趣的部分是，她培训了一名法学硕士，为青少年提供社交情感建议，但效果不如父母。

The surprising finding was it crushed the parents at giving social emotional advice to teens.

令人惊讶的发现是，这让父母无法向青少年提供社交情感建议。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So she designed specific prompts-

于是她设计了具体的提示——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yes

是的

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

that are better than any sort of generic prompts.

这比任何类型的通用提示都要好。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Of what a parent would say, and the domain was dating and what advice would parents give.

父母会说什么，领域是约会以及父母会给出什么建议。

And a lot of it is, if you look at the paper, it's just parents give really bad advice about dating today because they're using their context, and they don't understand online and all these crazy things.

很多事情是，如果你看一下这篇论文，你会发现，今天的父母对约会给出了非常糟糕的建议，因为他们使用的是他们的背景，他们不了解网上和所有这些疯狂的事情。

It's a different environment than it was back then.

现在的环境与当时不同。

And so she had to go on back to building things and things she loved.

所以她必须继续建造她喜欢的东西。

She has like 53 million likes on TikTok or whatever.

她在 TikTok 或其他平台上有大约 5300 万个赞。

She had this huge data source of I'm giving dating advice online, and we're going to embed this into a chatbot, test it and prove it, and then show with all my user base that it's super highly effective.

她拥有我在网上提供约会建议的巨大数据源，我们将把它嵌入到聊天机器人中，测试并证明它，然后向我所有的用户群展示它是超级高效的。

And so these are the kind of things that kids can go do.

所以这些都是孩子们可以去做的事情。

If you had told that girl in eighth grade, "Hey, go be published in 'Nature,'" they're like, "That's too hard."

如果你告诉八年级的那个女孩，“嘿，去《自然》杂志上发表文章吧”，他们会说，“那太难了。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

But you can scaffold them into it.

但你可以将它们放入其中。

Other big projects, we have one who's now marketing Martin Scorsese's latest film, and so he's been learning all the things you need to do to do that.

其他大型项目，我们有一个人正在营销马丁·斯科塞斯的最新电影，所以他一直在学习为此需要做的所有事情。

We have a set of our AI kids who Open claw, if you know, they presented at South By and Claude Con.

我们有一组人工智能孩子，他们张开爪子，如果你知道的话，他们在 South By 和 Claude Con 上展示过。

They built little businesses.

他们创办了小企业。

They earned $50,000 in ten days.

他们十天内赚了 50,000 美元。

And so these kids, it's not just academics that they can crush through.

所以这些孩子，他们能克服的不仅仅是学业。

There's all these life skills.

这些生活技能都有。

If you teach them entrepreneurship, right, if you unlock their potential in the afternoon.

如果你教他们创业，对吧，如果你在下午释放他们的潜力。

And let's step back a little second.

让我们退后一步。

When we sit and say we think people should reimagine education, right, over the next decade, for the next 100 years versus the last 100 years, it's development of the whole child.

当我们坐下来说，我们认为人们应该重新构想教育，对吧，在未来十年，未来100年而不是过去100年，这是整个孩子的发展。

McKinsey, who's the founder, right, the co-founder, her favorite line, which we believe super strongly at Alpha, is "This is the best time in history to be a five-year-old." Which is our ability to make that first 12 years awesome and unlock their potential on all dimensions.

麦肯锡，她是创始人，右，联合创始人，她最喜欢的一句话，我们阿尔法公司非常坚信，是“这是历史上五岁孩子最好的时光。”我们有能力让前 12 年变得精彩并释放他们在各个方面的潜力。

They get to love school for 12 years.

他们热爱学校12年。

Their academics, they're going to learn ten times faster.

他们的学术，他们的学习速度会快十倍。

These kids are going to have a head full of knowledge that's more than what their parents had.

这些孩子的头脑中将拥有比他们父母更多的知识。

We're going to be able to fill their head with knowledge.

我们将能够让他们的头脑充满知识。

The learning science shows that the more you know, the faster you learn, right?

学习科学表明，你知道的越多，学得就越快，对吗？

And so it's like ...

所以这就像是...

increasing.

增加。

And then the third part is the life skills that we think are important, they're going to have most of their day to work on this.

第三部分是我们认为重要的生活技能，他们将花大部分时间来处理这个问题。

They're going to be able to sit here and say, "This AI world's coming, things are going to change, and I get to go live and experience in that, and I get to do things." That framing we use about philosopher-builder.

他们将能够坐在这里说：“这个人工智能世界即将到来，事情将会发生变化，我可以亲身体验并体验其中，我可以做一些事情。”我们使用的框架是关于哲学家建设者的。

Who are kids that are going to come out of school?

即将走出学校的孩子是谁？

On the philosophy side, one, it's a proxy for good academics.

在哲学方面，第一，它是优秀学者的代表。

You can crush your academics and fill your head.

你可以压垮你的学业并充实你的头脑。

The other part is philosophy, which alternates over history between the most important thing and the least important major.

另一部分是哲学，它在历史上交替出现最重要的专业和最不重要的专业。

I believe with AI is coming back into the fore, which is, what's humans' role when there's all these AIs around, and what's the existential debates, and what did all the great thinkers think about?

我相信人工智能正在重新成为人们关注的焦点，也就是说，当有这么多人工智能存在时，人类的角色是什么，存在主义的争论是什么，所有伟大的思想家都在想什么？

And so you're going to have things like that on the philosophy side.

所以在哲学方面你会遇到类似的事情。

But the second part, and I believe schools really need to do this, and this is when we think about the life skills, it's the builder side.

但第二部分，我相信学校确实需要这样做，这是当我们考虑生活技能时，这是建设者方面。

We need to create builders.

我们需要创建构建者。

That is what kids need to be doing.

这就是孩子们需要做的。

That's what adults need to be doing.

这就是成年人需要做的事情。

You can't just be thinking.

你不能只是思考。

Schools can't be just sitting in class all day.

学校不能整天坐在课堂上。

You have to build.

你必须建造。

And when kids get to build, whether it's physically in sports, and I'm climbing, or I'm building drones and robots, or I'm building a business, I'm writing books, I'm making videos, whatever those programs are.

当孩子们开始建造时，无论是体育运动，我在攀岩，或者我在建造无人机和机器人，或者我在建立一家企业，我在写书，我在制作视频，无论这些程序是什么。

That's what engages kids.

这就是吸引孩子们的地方。

That's what they love.

这就是他们所爱的。

And we need to bring that back.

我们需要把它带回来。

There's whole vocational programs now for high schoolers, where it's like, "We're going to have you learn how to do advanced manufacturing and build robots," or things like that.

现在有针对高中生的完整职业课程，就像“我们将让你学习如何进行先进制造和建造机器人”或类似的东西。

In 100 years ago, or 50 years ago, shop class.

在100年前，或者50年前，商店阶级。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Build things.

建造东西。

We are very strong believers in the build philosophy, which is, and let's take middle school again, this time of transition.

我们非常坚信构建理念，这就是，让我们再次以中学为例，这次过渡。

We get a ton of transfers into Alpha who are consumers.

我们将大量资金转移到作为消费者的 Alpha 中。

They're on the dopamine loop.

他们处于多巴胺循环中。

They're caught on TikTok, they're caught on Fortnite.

他们在 TikTok 上被抓到，他们在 Fortnite 上被抓到。

They're just caught in the loops.

他们只是陷入了循环。

Causes mental health issues, they're isolated.

导致心理健康问题，他们被孤立。

All these problems.

所有这些问题。

And what we do is we have a program called Dream Launcher, where we're like, "We have to break these kids out of this loop." We have to develop them.

我们所做的就是我们有一个名为“梦想启动器”的计划，我们的意思是，“我们必须让这些孩子摆脱这个循环。”我们必须开发它们。

You can't develop a kid who's in that loop.

你无法培养一个陷入这种循环的孩子。

And so Dream Launcher is do your vision board.

所以 Dream Launcher 就是你的愿景板。

Who do you want to be?

你想成为谁？

And kids, even the ones in the dopamine loop, have great ideas of what they want to do.

孩子们，即使是处于多巴胺循环中的孩子，也对自己想做的事情有很好的想法。

Not only do they think they're awesome, they're like, "I am awesome.

他们不仅认为自己很棒，而且还会说：“我很棒。

I'm great." Do a Japanese Ikigai, if you know, which is, and back to these, what do you love, but what are you good at?

我很棒。”做一个日本的 Ikigai，如果你知道的话，那就是，回到这些，你喜欢什么，但你擅长什么？

Back to you can't just follow passion, you have to be good at stuff.

回到你不能只追随激情，你必须擅长做事。

And yet if you can develop the skills, great, but you can't do things that you're terrible at.

如果你能发展这些技能，那就太好了，但你不能做你不擅长的事情。

Because in your Japanese Ikigai, the world won't pay you for that.

因为在你的日本生活中，世界不会为此付钱给你。

What does the world value?

世界看重什么？

What does the world pay you for?

世界付钱给你什么？

What are you good at?

你擅长什么？

And what do you love?

你喜欢什么？

And you've helped them understand, and they can figure out how to find their sweet spot there.

你已经帮助他们理解了，他们就能弄清楚如何在那里找到自己的最佳位置。

So they have these great visions of, "This is who I want to be," and they start thinking about it in middle school, these Alpha X projects, sort of in high school, they do it more.

所以他们有这些伟大的愿景，“这就是我想成为的人”，他们在中学时开始思考这些 Alpha X 项目，有点在高中，他们做得更多。

And then we hit them with reality.

然后我们用现实打击他们。

We're like, "Now you have to do the 168-hour project." You got to track every hour you're weak.

我们说，“现在你必须完成 168 小时的项目。”你必须记录你虚弱的每一个小时。

And that's when they come back and they're like, "Ugh, I guess I'm going to be the world's best..." Because you are what you do.

当他们回来的时候，他们会说，“呃，我想我会成为世界上最好的......”因为你就是你所做的。

"I guess I'm going to be the world's best TikTok scroller."

“我想我将成为世界上最好的 TikTok 浏览者。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, their thumbs are-

是的，他们的拇指是——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

And the depression.

还有抑郁症。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

No, and they're different.

不，而且它们是不同的。

They understand it.

他们明白。

They're like, "I just draw my vision of who I want to be."

他们就像是，“我只是画出我想成为的人的愿景。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

"And now I realize my day-to-day habits aren't going to get me there."

“现在我意识到我的日常习惯无法让我实现这一目标。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

That's a big delta to internalize, which is just nerdy speak for that hits hard.

这是一个需要内化的巨大增量，这只是书呆子的说法，因为它会受到很大的打击。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But it's great to get the lesson at the time they're getting it.

但在他们得到教训的时候得到教训真是太好了。

Actually, in addition to this notion of motivation and suffering and the sort of concepts around that, and I think you illustrate beautifully how one can reconcile those and hold high standards, still feel supported, still come at things from an intrinsic place of, "I can do hard things," even if there's a lure-

事实上，除了动机和痛苦的概念以及与之相关的概念之外，我认为你很好地说明了如何调和这些概念并保持高标准，仍然感到受到支持，仍然从内在的地方“我可以做困难的事情”出发，即使有诱惑-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

of cash-

现金-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right

右

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

or a D1 or-

或 D1 或-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

scholarship, whatever it is.

奖学金，无论是什么。

I feel like this is the piece that I want to-

我感觉这就是我想要的作品——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

double-click on because most of the world are consumers.

双击，因为世界上大多数人都是消费者。

And it only occurred to me five years ago that even though I wasn't a particularly good high school student, the friends I was skateboarding with, even though I wasn't good enough to turn pro, they either turned pro or started companies or were dead or in jail.

五年前我才意识到，尽管我不是一个特别优秀的高中生，但和我一起玩滑板的朋友们，尽管我还不够好，无法成为职业选手，但他们要么成为职业选手，要么创办公司，要么死了，要么入狱。

And the ones who started companies started big companies.

那些创办公司的人创办了大公司。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And the ones who-

还有那些——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

made it through the shoot, because you know.

成功完成了拍摄，因为你知道。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Right.

正确的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Varying levels of support at home and elsewhere, they built really big things.

在国内和其他地方的不同程度的支持下，他们创造了真正伟大的东西。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Like huge companies.

比如大公司。

Part of our staff here we recruited from DC and these action sport companies that are huge companies.

我们的部分员工是从华盛顿特区和这些大型极限运动公司招募的。

Those-

那些——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

were started by kids we knew.

是由我们认识的孩子发起的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so there was always this model embedded in my mind that, yeah, there was Apple Computer, there was Steve Jobs nearby, but that wasn't really my proclivity, tech.

所以我的脑海里总是有这样的模型：是的，有苹果电脑，附近有史蒂夫·乔布斯，但这并不是我真正的倾向，技术。

But if you want to build something, like, "Oh yeah, you want to make a movie, you film your friend skateboarding."

但如果你想制作一些东西，比如，“哦，是的，你想拍一部电影，你可以拍摄你的朋友滑板。”

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This was before camera phones.

这是在拍照手机出现之前。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah, right.

是的，对。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So I realized a few years ago, like, oh yeah, building a podcast, we set up cameras and like-

所以几年前我意识到，就像，哦，是的，建立一个播客，我们设置了摄像头，比如——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

"Let's go." And get a team together and let's do this.

“我们走吧。”组建一个团队，让我们一起来做这件事。

But I think for a lot of the world, this feels very much out of their reach.

但我认为对于世界上很多人来说，这感觉非常遥不可及。

And yet they hear about it, and you can learn about it all day from-

然而他们听说了这件事，你可以整天从——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right

右

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

from Rosie or from-

来自罗西或来自-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

whoever online.

无论谁在线。

And so there's this gap between what people are being told they can do, and I believe actually can do.

因此，人们被告知他们可以做的事情和我相信他们实际上可以做的事情之间存在着差距。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yes.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But then how they're spending their time.

但接下来他们是如何度过时间的。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yes.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And that's just stating the obvious.

这只是说明了显而易见的事情。

But so how do you embed in people's minds-

但你如何嵌入人们的脑海中——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

that the ultimate experience in life, at the level of personal life, family, learning, and business, is to create something.

在个人生活、家庭、学习和事业层面上，生活的终极体验就是创造一些东西。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And you can still consume stuff.

而且你仍然可以消费东西。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right.

对。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But how do you embed that into people's mindset?

但如何将其融入人们的思维方式呢？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because I feel like this is, I'm a bit of a-

因为我觉得这是，我有点-

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

patriot.

爱国者。

This is what this country was built on.

这就是这个国家的基础。

It was the idea, like, "I like cars.

这个想法就像，“我喜欢汽车。

I'm going to start a-"

我要开始一个——”

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

"...

“……

manufacturing plant."

制造工厂。”

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

"Cars are good, but they could be better.

“汽车很好，但它们还可以做得更好。

I'm going to make better ones." This attitude has been challenged in recent years.

我会做出更好的。”近年来，这种态度受到了挑战。

And I'll just say one more thing about this.

关于这一点我还要再说一件事。

In particular, because of the emphasis on tech and AI.

特别是因为对技术和人工智能的重视。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

For many people, they hear tech and AI.

对于许多人来说，他们听到的是科技和人工智能。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Not me.

不是我。

And they think of the five or six guys-

他们想到了那五六个人——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

it's mostly guys, and they go, "God, like-" The press has cast them as bad people.

大部分都是男人，他们会说，“上帝啊，就像——”媒体把他们描绘成坏人。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Right.

对。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

These are bad people.

这些都是坏人。

This was not the way that Jobs and-

这不是乔布斯和——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

Bill Gates were cast early on.

比尔·盖茨很早就被选为演员。

They were nerds and designers.

他们是书呆子和设计师。

This is not the picture.

这不是照片。

So I think now people hear builder, AI, motivation, learning, Alpha school, and they go, "Oh, shit.

所以我认为现在人们听到建造者、人工智能、动机、学习、阿尔法学校，他们会说，“哦，糟糕。

We have to become tech nerds."

我们必须成为技术呆子。”

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

"There's no place for humanity in this.

“这里面没有人性的立足之地。

I can't build things." And then they feel overwhelmed.

我无法建造东西。”然后他们感到不知所措。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so I'm casting out a kind of a picture.

所以我正在投射出一幅图画。

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's not a specific question.

这不是一个具体问题。

How do you get people past consumerism-

如何让人们摆脱消费主义——

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

to really internalize that they can build something?

to really internalize that they can build something?

And how would somebody not at Alpha school start to internalize some of this stuff?

不在阿尔法学校的人怎么会开始内化这些东西呢？

Joe Liemandt:

乔·莱曼特：

Great.

太棒了。

Perfect stuff.

完美的东西。

And I'll hit the kids first, but then we'll talk about Alpha.