Guest Series | Dr. Paul Conti: Tools and Protocols for Mental Health
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Guest Series, where I and an expert guest discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到胡伯曼实验室嘉宾系列，我和一位专家嘉宾讨论了日常生活中的科学和基于科学的工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
Today marks the fourth episode in our four-episode series with Dr. Paul Conti about mental health.
今天是我们与 Paul Conti 博士讨论心理健康的四集系列节目的第四集。
Today's episode deals with the topic of self-care.
今天的节目涉及自我保健的主题。
We hear the phrase self-care a lot nowadays, but rarely, if ever, is self-care precisely defined.
如今，我们经常听到“自我保健”这个词，但很少（如果有的话）对自我保健进行精确定义。
For instance, is self-care about pampering oneself?
例如，自我关怀就是纵容自己吗？
Is it about self-acceptance?
是关于自我接纳吗？
Is self-care about just making sure we get enough sleep and enough exercise and have healthy relationships?
自我保健是否只是确保我们有足够的睡眠、足够的锻炼以及健康的人际关系？
Well, it turns out that yes, indeed, adequate self-care is about all of those things, but true self-care, the topic of today's episode, is about far more as it relates to our mental health.
好吧，事实证明，是的，确实，充分的自我保健涉及所有这些事情，但真正的自我保健，即今天这一集的主题，不仅仅涉及我们的心理健康。
True self-care is also about constructing a life narrative in which we frame our past, our present, and future in a way that allows us to see what's gone wrong, what's gone right, and the best path to navigate forward.
真正的自我关怀还在于构建一种生活叙事，在这种叙事中，我们以一种让我们能够看到哪里出了问题、哪里做对了以及前进的最佳道路的方式来构建我们的过去、现在和未来。
So, in many ways, true self-care is really about fostering a sense of self-awareness and doing so within the context of a framework that is known to work.
因此，从很多方面来说，真正的自我保健实际上是培养自我意识，并在已知有效的框架内做到这一点。
And today, Dr. Paul Conti shares with us exactly how to do that.
今天，Paul Conti 博士与我们分享了如何做到这一点。
He also touches on some of the things that, if not properly understood and processed, can inhibit our ability to take excellent care of ourselves, including how to properly process traumatic experiences, something that he is expert in, among many other topics as well.
他还谈到了一些如果不正确理解和处理，可能会抑制我们照顾好自己的能力的事情，包括如何正确处理创伤经历，这是他擅长的事情，以及许多其他主题。
He also touches on some of the things that can potentially serve as barriers to excellent self-care, including traumatic experiences, and explains how to frame those traumatic experiences so that we can best move forward.
他还谈到了一些可能成为良好自我护理障碍的因素，包括创伤经历，并解释了如何构建这些创伤经历，以便我们能够最好地前进。
He also shares with us various practices that include therapy, but also practices that we can carry out on our own, such as specific forms of meditation, journaling, and other ways of examining the self and fostering better self-care toward our mental health.
他还与我们分享了各种实践，包括治疗，但也包括我们可以自己进行的实践，例如特定形式的冥想、日记以及其他检查自我和促进更好的自我护理以促进心理健康的方法。
As I mentioned before, this is the fourth episode in our four-episode series, all about mental health.
正如我之前提到的，这是我们四集系列中的第四集，全部都是关于心理健康的。
I realize that perhaps not everyone has had the opportunity yet to listen to the previous three episodes in this series.
我意识到也许并不是每个人都有机会听过这个系列的前三集。
If you haven't, it certainly won't prevent you from gleaning important information and protocols from today's episode, but I do encourage you, at some point, to try and listen to all four episodes in this series, because at some level, they are interwoven at the level of concepts and of practices.
如果您还没有，这当然不会阻止您从今天的剧集中收集重要信息和协议，但我确实鼓励您在某些时候尝试聆听本系列中的所有四集，因为在某种程度上，它们在概念和实践层面上交织在一起。
I'd also like to highlight that Dr. Paul Conti has generously provided some simple diagrams that can help you navigate today's material and the material in the other episodes.
我还想强调的是，Paul Conti 博士慷慨地提供了一些简单的图表，可以帮助您浏览今天的材料和其他剧集中的材料。
They are available as zero-cost PDFs by simply going to the show note captions where you can view them or download them.
只需转到显示注释标题即可查看或下载它们，即可以零成本 PDF 形式获取它们。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
Our first sponsor is BetterHelp.
我们的第一个赞助商是 BetterHelp。
BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out all online.
BetterHelp 提供由持证治疗师在线进行的专业治疗。
I've been doing therapy for more than 30 years.
我从事治疗已有 30 多年了。
While I confess that initially I was forced to do that therapy as a condition for being let back into high school, over time, I learned that therapy is a tremendously valuable practice.
虽然我承认，最初我被迫接受这种治疗，作为重返高中的条件，但随着时间的推移，我了解到治疗是一种非常有价值的实践。
In fact, I consider doing regular weekly therapy as just as important as doing regular physical exercise in order to improve one's health.
事实上，为了改善健康，我认为每周定期进行治疗与定期进行体育锻炼同样重要。
The beauty of BetterHelp is that it makes it extremely easy to find a therapist that's excellent for you, and we can define an excellent therapist as somebody who's going to give you a lot of support, but in an objective way, as well as somebody with whom you can have excellent rapport and that can help you arrive at positively transformative insights that you wouldn't have otherwise had.
BetterHelp 的美妙之处在于，它使您可以非常轻松地找到一位适合您的治疗师，我们可以将优秀的治疗师定义为能够以客观的方式为您提供大量支持的人，以及与您可以保持良好融洽关系并可以帮助您获得原本无法获得的积极变革性见解的人。
And with BetterHelp, they make it convenient so that it's matched to your schedule and the other aspects of your life.
借助 BetterHelp，它们可以让您变得更加方便，以便与您的日程安排和生活的其他方面相匹配。
If you'd like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month.
如果您想尝试 BetterHelp，请访问 betterhelp.com/huberman，第一个月可享受 10% 的折扣。
Again, that's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P, .com/huberman.
再说一遍，这是 BetterHelp，H-E-L-P，.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Waking Up.
今天的节目也是由Wakeing Up为我们带来的。
Waking Up is a meditation app that offers dozens of guided meditation sessions, mindfulness trainings, yoga nidra sessions, and more.
Waking Up 是一款冥想应用程序，提供数十个引导冥想课程、正念训练、瑜伽休息课程等。
By now, there's an abundance of data showing that even short daily meditations can greatly improve our mood, reduce anxiety, improve our ability to focus, and can improve our memory.
到目前为止，有大量数据表明，即使是每天短暂的冥想也可以极大地改善我们的情绪，减少焦虑，提高我们的注意力，并可以提高我们的记忆力。
And while there are many different forms of meditation, most people find it difficult to find and stick to a meditation practice in a way that is most beneficial for them.
虽然冥想有许多不同的形式，但大多数人发现很难找到并坚持对他们最有益的冥想练习。
The Waking Up app makes it extremely easy to learn how to meditate and to carry out your daily meditation practice in a way that's going to be most effective and efficient for you.
Wake Up 应用程序让您可以非常轻松地学习如何冥想，并以对您来说最有效和高效的方式进行日常冥想练习。
It includes a variety of different types of meditations of different duration, as well as things like yoga nidra, which place the brain and body into a sort of pseudo-sleep that allows you to emerge feeling incredibly mentally refreshed.
它包括各种不同类型、不同持续时间的冥想，以及瑜伽休息术等，它可以让大脑和身体进入一种假睡眠状态，让你在醒来时感觉精神焕发。
In fact, the science around yoga nidra is really impressive, showing that after a yoga nidra session, levels of dopamine in certain areas of the brain are enhanced by up to 60%, which places the brain and body into a state of enhanced readiness for mental work and for physical work.
事实上，有关瑜伽休息术的科学确实令人印象深刻，表明在瑜伽休息术之后，大脑某些区域的多巴胺水平提高了 60%，这使大脑和身体进入一种为脑力工作和体力工作做好准备的状态。
Another thing I really like about the Waking Up app is that it provides a 30-day introduction course.
我真正喜欢 Waking Up 应用程序的另一件事是它提供了 30 天的入门课程。
So, for those of you that have not meditated before or are getting back to a meditation practice, that's fantastic.
因此，对于那些以前没有冥想过或正在重新进行冥想练习的人来说，这真是太棒了。
Or if you're somebody who's already a skilled and regular meditator, Waking Up has more advanced meditations and yoga nidra sessions for you as well.
或者，如果您已经是一名熟练且定期的冥想者，Wake Up 也为您提供更高级的冥想和瑜伽休息课程。
If you'd like to try the Waking Up app, you can go to wakingup.com/huberman and access a free 30-day trial.
如果您想尝试 Waking Up 应用程序，可以访问 wakingup.com/huberman 并获得 30 天的免费试用。
Again, that's wakingup.com/huberman.
再说一遍，那就是 wakingup.com/huberman。
And now for my discussion about mental health with Dr. Paul Conti.
现在我将与保罗·康迪博士讨论心理健康问题。
Dr. Conti, welcome back.
孔蒂博士，欢迎回来。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Pleasure to be here.
很高兴来到这里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For this series, we've been focusing on mental health and really defining what mental health is.
在本系列中，我们一直关注心理健康并真正定义什么是心理健康。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And a roadmap to achieve mental health.
以及实现心理健康的路线图。
And in episode one, you laid out for us a map, essentially, of the things that any and all of us can look at pretty much at any time with essentially any degree of resources to try and get a better understanding of ourselves And how well or not well we happen to be moving toward or creating true mental health for ourselves.
在第一集中，你为我们绘制了一张地图，本质上是我们任何人和所有人都可以在任何时间使用任何程度的资源来查看的事物，以尝试更好地了解自己以及我们是否正在为自己迈向或创造真正的心理健康。
In addition to that, you spelled out for us what true mental health really is.
除此之外，您还为我们阐明了真正的心理健康是什么。
And just to recap a little bit of that, it really boils down to these verb states, action states of agency and gratitude.
回顾一下这一点，它实际上可以归结为这些动词状态、代理和感激的行动状态。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then in episode two, you covered some of the common challenges that you've observed in life and in your clinical practice, and we address some of the ways that people can overcome those challenges by going to the map, opening the so-called cupboards, as we're referring to them, and asking specific sorts of questions.
然后在第二集中，您介绍了您在生活和临床实践中观察到的一些常见挑战，我们讨论了人们克服这些挑战的一些方法，方法是查看地图，打开我们所说的所谓的橱柜，并提出特定类型的问题。
And then in episode three, we talked about how looking at the map and exploring the map, and those cupboards in particular, can help people in relational aspects of life, romantic relationship, work relationships, family relationships, and the relationship to self.
然后在第三集中，我们讨论了如何查看地图并探索地图，特别是那些橱柜，可以在生活、浪漫关系、工作关系、家庭关系以及与自我的关系等方面帮助人们。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Very important.
非常重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Very important.
非常重要。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
The foundation of all relationships outside of ourselves.
我们之外的所有关系的基础。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm so glad that you highlighted the relationship to self, because today's episode, we will of course return to the map.
我很高兴你强调了与自我的关系，因为今天的剧集，我们当然会回到地图。
And I should mention that if people have not seen episodes one, two, or three, that's okay.
我应该提一下，如果人们没有看过第一集、第二集或第三集，那也没关系。
Today's discussion will be entirely accessible to them.
他们完全可以参与今天的讨论。
But I do recommend that at some point they especially listen to episode one, and hopefully episodes two and three as well.
但我确实建议他们在某个时候特别听第一集，希望也听第二集和第三集。
But today's discussion is really about the aspects of ourselves that exist in all people and the action steps, the paths of inquiry that are available to all people that can allow anyone and everyone to improve their mental health, to move toward these ideals of agency and gratitude on a regular basis.
但今天的讨论实际上是关于所有人中存在的我们自己的各个方面以及所有人都可以使用的行动步骤和探究路径，这些路径可以让任何人和每个人改善他们的心理健康，定期朝着这些代理和感恩的理想迈进。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And as you pointed out, it is a process.
正如您所指出的，这是一个过程。
It's not that we arrive at agency and gratitude.
这并不是说我们达到了代理和感恩的地步。
And just to reiterate, agency and gratitude are verb states.
重申一下，代理和感激是动词状态。
They involve ways of being in the world.
它们涉及世界的存在方式。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
They're active processes, like life is an active process, right?
它们是活跃的过程，就像生命是一个活跃的过程一样，对吗？
There's not an endpoint we're trying to reach.
我们没有试图达到的终点。
We're trying to live.
我们正在努力生活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And in thinking about today's discussion, it occurred to both of us really that today's discussion is really about self-care.
在思考今天的讨论时，我们俩都意识到今天的讨论实际上是关于自我保健的。
Self-care as a concept, I think for many people, evokes notions of like, okay, you're going to take a vacation, or you're going to kick your feet up or get a massage, things of that sort.
我认为，自我保健作为一个概念，对很多人来说，会让人产生这样的想法，好吧，你要去度假，或者你要踢腿或接受按摩，诸如此类的想法。
And certainly, it can involve those sorts of things.
当然，它可能涉及这类事情。
But just as if we were having a discussion about physical health, and we were going to talk about ways to take care of the physical body to enhance health span and lifespan, today's discussion is really about how to take care of the internal landscape, the mind.
但是，就像我们在讨论身体健康一样，我们要讨论如何照顾身体以延长健康寿命和寿命，今天的讨论实际上是关于如何照顾内部景观，即心灵。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which also qualifies very strongly as self-care.
这也非常适合自我保健。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if you would, could you tell us how you think about self-care?
如果您愿意，您能告诉我们您如何看待自我保健吗？
Regardless of whether or not you have a patient who's dealing with severe mental illness or somebody who's just hitting the same speed bumps of life over and over again or anything in between, what sorts of self-care practices and mindsets do you suggest people take on for themselves?
无论您是否有患有严重精神疾病的患者，或者只是一次又一次地经历同样的生活减速带的人，或者介于两者之间的任何人，您建议人们采取什么样的自我护理实践和心态？
And for that matter, how do you think about self-care, right?
就此而言，您如何看待自我保健，对吗？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Well, I think we start with factors that are really just baseline factors, that have to be in place in order to achieve good things upon them.
嗯，我认为我们从一些实际上只是基线因素的因素开始，这些因素必须到位才能实现良好的目标。
So the basics of, we have to be eating well enough to feel okay, and hopefully eating really well.
所以最基本的是，我们必须吃得足够好才能感觉良好，并且希望吃得真的很好。
We have to stay hydrated.
我们必须保持水分。
We have to get sleep.
我们得睡觉了。
We have to move the body.
我们必须移动身体。
These are basics, but basics a lot of people are not attending to.
这些都是基础知识，但很多人都没有注意到这些基础知识。
Similarly, we have to be in a situation that isn't making fear and misery all the time.
同样，我们必须处于一种不会一直造成恐惧和痛苦的境地。
So an example of an abusive relationship, right?
这是虐待关系的一个例子，对吧？
A person has to navigate out of that before they can really start taking care of themselves in the way that builds goodness, right?
一个人必须摆脱这种困境，才能真正开始以建立善良的方式照顾自己，对吗？
So we look for the basic factors that we need to take care of in order to then look at the factors that become particular to each of us.
因此，我们寻找需要注意的基本因素，然后再考虑对我们每个人来说特别的因素。
And what we're really looking for is self-understanding, right?
我们真正寻找的是自我理解，对吗？
How much can we understand about ourselves, be knowledgeable about what's going on inside of us, why it's going on?
我们能在多大程度上了解自己，了解我们内心正在发生什么，为什么会发生？
Also, and very importantly, being aware that we don't know everything that goes on inside of us, and being curious about that and looking at how we're engaging with the world around us.
另外，非常重要的是，要意识到我们并不知道我们内心发生的一切，并对这一点感到好奇，并观察我们如何与周围的世界互动。
Do we feel happy?
我们感到幸福吗？
Do we not feel happy?
我们不感到幸福吗？
How do we define what happy means?
我们如何定义快乐的含义？
How are we engaging with the world?
我们如何与世界互动？
Because as you were saying, the agency and gratitude are verb states.
因为正如你所说，代理和感激是动词状态。
So how are we living life?
那么我们如何生活呢？
How are we engaging with the world?
我们如何与世界互动？
Do we feel like life is a sequence of things I have to do, for example, right?
例如，我们是否觉得生活是我必须做的一系列事情，对吗？
Or are we doing things we really, really don't want to do, right?
或者我们正在做我们真的、真的不想做的事情，对吧？
Do we have to do those things?
我们必须做那些事情吗？
How could life be different, right?
生活怎么会不一样呢，对吧？
We start looking at ourselves to assess how we're engaging with ourselves, the people, the world around us in a way that is either generative or not generative.
我们开始审视自己，评估我们如何以积极或消极的方式与自己、他人和周围的世界互动。
If we're in that state of agency and gratitude, then we are going to have periods of time where we feel peaceful, right?
如果我们处于那种能动性和感恩的状态，那么我们就会有一段时间感到平静，对吗？
We feel a sense of contentment, or we feel delighted.
我们感到满足感，或者说我们感到高兴。
So is any of that in my life, right?
我的生活中也有这样的事吗？
If not, why?
如果没有，为什么？
Can I start thinking about that?
我可以开始考虑这个问题吗？
Sometimes the answer's quite clear, like, oh, there's this thing I love and I'm not doing that.
有时答案很明确，就像，哦，有一件我喜欢的事情，但我不会这样做。
Right?
正确的？
And I can't do it.
而我做不到。
And then you revisit, like, is it true that you can't do it?
然后你重新审视，你真的做不到吗？
A lot of times it is not true.
很多时候事实并非如此。
And if it is true, how does the person come to terms with that, process that, perhaps grieve, right?
如果这是真的，那么这个人如何接受这一点，处理这一点，也许会感到悲伤，对吗？
So say if it's a loss of a person, that can keep people in terrible misery over years and years.
所以说，如果失去一个人，就会让人们多年来一直处于可怕的痛苦之中。
So there may be things we have to understand, we have to process, so that we can get ourselves to that place of knowing ourselves pretty well and engaging in the world in ways that we have a pretty good understanding of and that are adaptive.
因此，可能有些事情我们必须理解，我们必须处理，这样我们才能很好地了解自己，并以我们非常了解和适应的方式参与世界。
And then we look to say, okay, now how do I make that better?
然后我们会说，好吧，现在我该如何做得更好？
Because now we're thinking about preventive medicine, right?
因为现在我们正在考虑预防医学，对吧？
We want our bodies to be healthy because of course, we want to be healthy today, right?
我们希望我们的身体健康，因为我们今天当然希望身体健康，对吧？
But we also don't know what will happen in the future, right?
但我们也不知道未来会发生什么，对吧？
Will there be an injury or an illness?
会不会受伤或者生病？
Eventually, we all have an injury or an illness in some way or another.
最终，我们都会以某种方式受伤或生病。
So we're preparing for the predictable challenges that will come our way in the future.
因此，我们正在为未来将面临的可预见的挑战做好准备。
And We're well-served by doing this about our mental health too.
这样做对我们的心理健康也有好处。
There will be challenges that come our way.
我们将会遇到挑战。
There'll be losses and stressors and things that make us feel bad or feel scared.
会有损失和压力以及让我们感觉不好或感到害怕的事情。
These things will happen to us, so the healthier we are, the better today is, and the better we set ourselves up to either make tomorrow even better today, or if tomorrow gives me a challenge I don't have today, I can meet that challenge and get back to a better place.
这些事情会发生在我们身上，所以我们越健康，今天就越好，我们就越能让自己的明天变得更好，或者如果明天给我带来今天没有的挑战，我就能迎接挑战并回到更好的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if I understand correctly, it sounds like one of the cornerstones of self-care, for sake of mental health, involves asking really good questions about oneself.
因此，如果我理解正确的话，这听起来像是自我保健的基石之一，为了心理健康，涉及到问关于自己的真正好的问题。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't think I've ever heard it defined that way before.
我想我以前从未听过这样的定义。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's in such stark contrast to the other forms of self-care, which I certainly subscribe to as well, like making sure one gets enough rest and avoids toxic people to the extent one can, et cetera, or toxic environments, and so on.
这与我当然也赞同的其他形式的自我保健形成了鲜明的对比，比如确保一个人得到足够的休息，并尽可能避免接触有毒的人等等，或者有毒的环境等等。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
You mentioned ask questions of the self, but the logical next question to that is, well, what questions do I ask myself?
你提到问自己问题，但下一个合乎逻辑的问题是，我要问自己什么问题？
Sometimes we know or we have an idea.
有时我们知道或有一个想法。
Sometimes we don't, and this is where the construction of a life narrative, like, "Let me think about my life.
有时我们不这样做，这就是构建生活叙事的地方，比如，“让我想想我的生活。
Let me potentially talk about my life with a trusted other person.
让我可以和一个值得信赖的人谈论我的生活。
Let me potentially write down a narrative about my life." And we can learn so much from doing that.
让我写一篇关于我的生活的故事。”我们可以从中学到很多东西。
So the person who thinks back and starts to tell the story of themselves.
所以这个人会回想并开始讲述自己的故事。
And let's say, just as an example, that story is going pretty well, and the person is feeling pretty good about themselves, and then, say, something happens and it starts to change.
举个例子，这个故事进展得很顺利，这个人对自己感觉很好，然后，比如说，发生了一些事情，情况开始发生变化。
"Well, then this thing happened, and then I started kind of spending time with different people," or, "I started dating different people," or, "I took a different kind of job." And it can engender the reflection of, like, "Oh, things really kind of changed then." Because the emotion systems within us don't care about the clock or the calendar.
“嗯，然后这件事发生了，然后我开始和不同的人在一起，”或者，“我开始和不同的人约会”，或者，“我做了一份不同的工作。”它可以引起这样的反思，比如“哦，那时事情确实发生了变化。”因为我们体内的情感系统不关心时钟或日历。
The emotions, often of negative experiences, can back-map into our lives.
情绪，通常是负面经历，可以倒映到我们的生活中。
And someone who can tell you, "I was miserable ever since I was a child," can then write out a life narrative that describes a very happy childhood until something happened or something changed at a certain point, which could be something dramatic, or it might be increasing pressures of school, or increasing social pressures, or how things changed at puberty.
如果有人可以告诉你，“我从小就很痛苦”，然后可以写出一个生活叙述，描述一个非常快乐的童年，直到某件事发生或在某个时刻发生了一些变化，这可能是戏剧性的事情，或者可能是学校压力的增加，或者社会压力的增加，或者青春期事情的变化。
Right?
正确的？
And if we have an understanding of that, we may know the right questions.
如果我们了解这一点，我们就可能知道正确的问题。
Like, for example, let's say afterwards, the person finds that they're drinking more.
比如说，事后，这个人发现他们喝得更多了。
An example, but a common example.
一个例子，但是一个常见的例子。
Instead of taking that for granted, "Oh, that's what I do," right?
不要认为这是理所当然的，“哦，这就是我所做的”，对吗？
Or, "Yeah, I can't cope any better." The negative things people will say to themselves, the narrative can often point out, "I can cope better.
或者，“是的，我无法更好地应对。”人们会对自己说的消极的话，叙述通常可以指出，“我可以更好地应对。
I did cope better.
我确实应对得更好。
I did feel differently about myself." So the life narrative can really help us establish the roadmap.
我确实对自己有不同的感觉。”所以生活叙事确实可以帮助我们建立路线图。
And part of what the life narrative does is it guides us to the places to ask the questions.
生活叙事的部分作用是引导我们去提出问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you would be so kind as to tell us a little bit more about how one would do this on their own.
如果您愿意告诉我们更多关于如何自己完成这项工作的信息。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So does this involve journaling things out?
那么这是否涉及记录事情呢？
I confess I have a file on my computer that has a bunch of other files that starts with age zero to five, and then I have some notes in there.
我承认我的电脑上有一个文件，其中有一堆从零到五岁开始的其他文件，然后我在那里有一些笔记。
It's not an autobiography.
这不是自传。
Far from it.
远非如此。
It's just highlights of events that I remember, six to 10 and so on, and places I lived.
这只是我记得的事件的亮点，六到十等等，以及我住过的地方。
And I use it just to kind of orient myself in time.
我用它只是为了及时调整自己的方向。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I actually don't know what the purpose and utility of it is or why I initially started doing this, but it's an important file to me.
我实际上不知道它的目的和实用性是什么，也不知道为什么我最初开始这样做，但它对我来说是一个重要的文件。
And when I return to it, I often remember additional key events, so it's constantly growing.
当我回到它时，我经常会记住其他关键事件，因此它会不断增长。
These files are getting quite large.
这些文件变得相当大。
Again, with no specific purpose of writing this out at any point, but just to orient.
再说一次，在任何时候写下这篇文章都没有特定的目的，只是为了确定方向。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
You can't not learn about yourself from doing that.
你不能不通过这样做来了解自己。
It exposes truths of self.
它暴露了自我的真相。
It makes you ponder about things.
它让你思考一些事情。
It draws your attention to ways in which you've changed, whether you think those ways are good or bad.
它让你注意到自己改变的方式，无论你认为这些方式是好还是坏。
It draws your attention to change.
它会吸引你的注意力去改变。
It draws your attention to the impact of external events.
它提请您注意外部事件的影响。
And as you said, it grounds you.
正如你所说，它让你立足。
It provides a way of localizing oneself in time.
它提供了一种及时定位自己的方法。
Like, "I am here now.
就像，“我现在在这里。
Wait, how did I get here?" And the thoughts and ideas of how we got here very much help us because often we don't do that.
等等，我怎么到这里来了？”我们如何走到这一步的想法和想法对我们很有帮助，因为我们常常不这样做。
We're sort of rushing headlong forward because in many ways our society is prompting us.
我们有点急躁地向前冲，因为我们的社会在很多方面都在推动着我们。
We live in a very fast-moving society, and we want information and gratification, and often we don't even want it very fast, but it's coming at us very fast anyway.
我们生活在一个瞬息万变的社会，我们需要信息和满足感，通常我们甚至不需要很快，但无论如何它都会很快地向我们袭来。
And to stop and reflect makes a very, very big difference.
停下来反思会产生非常非常大的变化。
Even to think at times beyond our generations.
甚至有时会超越我们这一代人的思考。
And to the best of my knowledge, the vast majority of people on one side of my family, everyone was a shepherd for every generation until, like, two ago.
据我所知，我家族的绝大多数人，每个人都是每一代人的牧羊人，直到两年前。
And thinking about that of like, "Huh, that's interesting." It makes me in many ways grateful, so grateful for the opportunity I've had.
想到这一点，“嗯，这很有趣。”这让我在很多方面都很感激，非常感激我所拥有的机会。
But I also think like, well, they lived in close-knit communities then, and what was that like?
但我也想，好吧，他们当时生活在联系紧密的社区中，那是什么样的？
And we begin to see ourselves in a broader way, both in our own history and then projecting forward, which sometimes is about children and nurturing children, but it can certainly be about other things.
我们开始以更广泛的方式看待自己，无论是在我们自己的历史中，还是在未来的展望中，这有时是关于孩子和养育孩子，但它肯定可以是关于其他事情。
It can be about friendship.
这可能是关于友谊。
It can be about work.
可能与工作有关。
So we start to see ourselves in ways that are interesting, that are through the lens of truth, and that speak to our place in the world around us.
因此，我们开始以有趣的方式看待自己，通过真理的镜头，表达我们在周围世界中的地位。
And I think this engenders both agency and gratitude.
我认为这会产生代理感和感激之情。
If I'm aware of like, "Huh, what have I done?
如果我意识到，“哈，我做了什么？
What have I accomplished?
我取得了什么成就？
When haven't I accomplished things?
我什么时候没有完成过事情？
How might that be different?" And a sense of gratitude for being here and having opportunity and even being able to think about this.
这会有什么不同呢？”感谢来到这里，有机会，甚至能够思考这个问题。
My guess is when you read through those files that at some points you have a sense of marvel.
我的猜测是，当您阅读这些文件时，有时您会感到惊叹。
Like, "Whoa, that's me." Whether it's a good memory or it's a difficult memory, no, it's all part of you that leads you through to today, and you do have a better sense of self through that.
就像，“哇，那是我。”无论是美好的记忆还是艰难的记忆，不，都是你的一部分引导你走到今天，并且通过它你确实有了更好的自我意识。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And one of the feelings I most often come away from those excursions into those files with is one of gratitude, because so much of what's in those files are recollections of others that I really appreciate.
在浏览这些文件时，我最常产生的一种感受是感激之情，因为这些文件中的很多内容都是我真正欣赏的其他人的回忆。
Some are still alive, some aren't.
有些人还活着，有些人已经不在了。
And what that's meant to me and how that carries me forward.
这对我意味着什么以及它如何推动我前进。
So yeah.
所以是的。
So that's what I do.
这就是我所做的。
I'm sure there are a near infinite number of ways that people could do this, but what are a few that you've seen work really well, that people can do on their own or perhaps with a clinician as well?
我确信人们可以通过几乎无限多种方法来做到这一点，但是您见过哪些方法非常有效，人们可以自己做，或者也可以与临床医生一起做？
In fact, that raises the question, should people share this sort of practice and the contents of that practice with a trusted clinician?
事实上，这就提出了一个问题，人们是否应该与值得信赖的临床医生分享这种做法及其内容？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
Yeah, I think sharing with another person always should be a trusted other.
是的，我认为与另一个人分享永远应该是一个值得信赖的人。
Right?
正确的？
And we can kind of take stock of that, of people have an idea of who may be safe.
我们可以对此进行评估，人们知道谁可能是安全的。
Right?
正确的？
Often people say, "Well, there's no one I could share something with." But really that often comes through a lens of fear, of exposure of self, of rejection, of vulnerability, which often is warranted, but sometimes is not.
人们常常说：“好吧，没有人可以与我分享一些东西。”但实际上，这往往是通过恐惧、暴露自我、拒绝、脆弱的视角来体现的，这通常是有道理的，但有时却不然。
Sometimes there really are, in fact, often there are safe people.
有时确实存在，事实上，经常存在安全的人。
Right?
正确的？
So the act of doing something other than just thinking about something brings, as you well know, it brings parts of our brain online that then are thinking in a different way.
因此，正如你所知，除了思考某件事之外，做一些事情的行为会让我们大脑的某些部分在线，然后以不同的方式思考。
So, for example, they may bring error correction mechanisms online.
例如，他们可能会在线引入纠错机制。
So if I'm thinking over and over again that I've never been good enough to do anything, that can be just automatic inside of me.
因此，如果我一遍又一遍地认为自己从来都不够好，无法做任何事情，那么这可能会在我内心自然而然地发生。
But if I start to write or to talk or even to formulate words to talk to myself or to put words in my mind as if I were talking, now we come at it in a different way and we can sort of ferret out the truth within us, which might be, it's not true that I've never been able to do things or achieve things.
但是，如果我开始写作或说话，甚至形成词语来与自己交谈，或者像我在说话一样将词语放入我的脑海中，现在我们以不同的方式来处理它，我们可以在某种程度上找出我们内心的真相，这可能是，我从来没有能够做一些事情或取得一些成就，这可能是不真实的。
And people often bring that online by doing something other than the same thought process that's gone often over and over, and it's non-productive and it brings down mood and it raises anxiety, and it also builds a sense of futility.
人们经常通过做一些与经常重复的相同思维过程不同的事情来将其带到网上，这是没有生产力的，它会降低情绪，增加焦虑，而且还会产生一种无用感。
I mean, I cannot tell you how often I've heard a person say, like, "No good will come of this," or like, "Okay, try, we'll try, but I know I can't be helped.
我的意思是，我无法告诉你我有多少次听到有人说，“这样做不会有任何好处”，或者“好吧，尝试一下，我们会尝试，但我知道我无能为力。
I've been thinking about this for 10 years or 20 years." But what they've been doing is the same thing.
我已经思考这个问题10年或20年了。”但他们一直在做的是同一件事。
They've been ruminating on it for 10 years.
他们已经思考了10年。
They start talking about it and people will say, "Oh my goodness, I've achieved more in two hours than I did in years." Right?
他们开始谈论它，人们会说：“天哪，我在两个小时内取得的成就比我多年来取得的成就还要多。”正确的？
But that's because you're doing something different in the two hours.
但那是因为你在这两个小时内做了不同的事情。
So I think that's very important, especially because we can't say, "Okay, go look in your unconscious mind and see what you find there." Right?
所以我认为这非常重要，特别是因为我们不能说：“好吧，看看你的潜意识，看看你在那里发现了什么。”正确的？
So then we need ways of accessing the unconscious mind and the communication, either with self in writing, with others, can be very helpful in doing that.
因此，我们需要一些方法来进入潜意识，并且通过书面形式与自己进行交流，或者与他人进行交流，这对于做到这一点非常有帮助。
I also am a firm believer that knowledge is power.
我也坚信知识就是力量。
Many times, I have a sense of really having helped someone, and the other person may have that sense and we can see the change, and all that I've done is impart knowledge.
很多时候，我有一种真正帮助了别人的感觉，别人也可能有这种感觉，我们可以看到变化，而我所做的只是传授知识。
Right?
正确的？
We all know different things.
我们都知道不同的事情。
So often it's the case that, hey, I happen to have learned things that are different from what that other person learns, and then I'm communicating to them things that I have learned so they know them too, and then they feel tremendously better.
通常情况是，嘿，我碰巧学到了与其他人所学到的东西不同的东西，然后我将我学到的东西传达给他们，以便他们也了解它们，然后他们感觉好多了。
Right?
正确的？
Because if we put inside of ourselves the tools of understanding our unconscious minds, and sometimes our conscious minds too, we'll work on them, we'll make use of them.
因为如果我们将理解我们无意识思维（有时也包括我们的意识思维）的工具放入自己体内，我们就会研究它们，我们就会利用它们。
So if you talk to a person, for example, about how trauma can impact us and how we can shove it underneath the surface and how it can spin off shame, then that person may take that knowledge away and come back with real understanding.
因此，如果你和一个人谈论创伤如何影响我们，我们如何将其隐藏在表面之下，以及它如何产生羞耻感，那么那个人可能会带走这些知识，并带着真正的理解回来。
And the fact that we can do this on our own, right?
事实上我们可以自己做到这一点，对吧？
We can do this through good resources, we can do this by taking information into ourselves, that can be very helpful.
我们可以通过良好的资源来做到这一点，我们可以通过将信息融入我们自己来做到这一点，这非常有帮助。
And it doesn't require-- Because the first place to start are with things we can do that don't require professional help, right?
而且它不需要——因为首先要做的是我们可以做的不需要专业帮助的事情，对吗？
And sometimes we may come at problems that do tell us that we should get professional help, right?
有时我们可能会遇到一些问题，这些问题确实告诉我们应该寻求专业帮助，对吧？
So if we're having thoughts of self-harm, thoughts of not wanting to be alive, thoughts of real despair, thoughts of hopelessness, that's telling us, okay, let's get some help.
因此，如果我们有自残的想法、不想活的想法、真正绝望的想法、绝望的想法，那就告诉我们，好吧，让我们寻求帮助。
There's a role and a place for professional help.
专业帮助有一个角色和一个地方。
But people come to professional help in other ways too, such as, for example, reflecting on the self.
但人们也会通过其他方式寻求专业帮助，例如反思自我。
And so real example, person thinking, "It really became kind of different when things started changing, like after college and then I thought like, oh, I've kind of gotten to this place and I've got a good job and things really should get better, but they kind of haven't." Right?
举个真实的例子，人们会想，“当事情开始发生变化时，情况真的变得有所不同，比如大学毕业后，然后我想，哦，我已经到了这个地方，我找到了一份好工作，事情真的应该变得更好，但他们并没有。”正确的？
And that was really a branch point.
这确实是一个分支点。
That person may have never really thought about that, or they may have thought about it 10,000 times and then shoved it underneath from consciousness to unconsciousness because it's a scary vulnerability-inducing thing.
这个人可能从来没有真正考虑过这一点，或者他们可能已经考虑了一万次，然后把它从有意识地推到无意识之下，因为这是一个可怕的、容易引发脆弱性的事情。
It seems scary, like how could it be that I achieved things and didn't get healthier?
这看起来很可怕，我怎么可能取得了成就却没有变得更健康呢？
Now we're afraid of that, right?
现在我们害怕这个，对吗？
And letting that come to the surface, being able to say, "Oh, that's true.
让这一点浮出水面，能够说：“哦，那是真的。
I don't have to be afraid to shine light on that." Then a lot of times that alone, sometimes a person will solve their own problems.
我不必害怕揭露这一点。”那么很多时候就靠自己，有时候一个人就会解决自己的问题。
They think about it, they come in, they have all the answers, they thank me.
他们想了想，他们进来了，他们得到了所有的答案，他们感谢我。
I did nothing but listen.
我什么也没做，只是听着。
But the listening part is important.
但听力部分很重要。
It allowed them to come in and say what they needed to say.
这让他们可以进来说出他们需要说的话。
And other times then it can be that, but it's not always that.
有时可能是这样，但并不总是这样。
Other times it informs us about what to work on clinically, and it might not be something that's dire, right?
其他时候，它告诉我们临床上应该做什么，而且这可能并不是什么可怕的事情，对吧？
It might just be like, "I want to understand this.
它可能只是这样，“我想理解这一点。
I want to be happier, I want to be healthier, I want to work towards these good things." When people talk about that, they're always, if you really distill down what are they talking about?
我想要更快乐，我想要更健康，我想要为这些美好的事情而努力。”当人们谈论这个时，他们总是，如果你真的提炼出他们在谈论什么？
A sense of peace, a sense of contentment, coming at the world through agency and gratitude.
一种和平感、一种满足感，通过代理和感恩来到这个世界。
And we can do that through self-inquiry, including through therapy.
我们可以通过自我探究，包括通过治疗来做到这一点。
It doesn't have to just be for situations where, oh, there's a significant clinical problem.
它不一定只适用于存在重大临床问题的情况。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is it the case that when somebody journals a bit of their life narrative or thinks about some great or sadly traumatic events that perhaps happened to them at whatever stage of life, that there's something accomplished in that action, or in that therapy session, if they're doing it with a clinician.
是否有这样的情况：当某人写下自己的生活叙述或思考一些可能在人生的任何阶段发生在他们身上的重大或悲伤的创伤事件时，如果他们是与临床医生一起做的话，那么在该行动或治疗过程中就会取得一些成就。
But that when they go to sleep that night, and perhaps in their waking states as well, that the unconscious is working some of that through, such that revelations come to mind later, insights come to mind.
但是，当他们那天晚上入睡时，也许在他们清醒的状态下，无意识正在发挥一些作用，这样稍后就会想到启示，想到见解。
I'm certainly familiar with the fact that there are certain times of day and evening where my brain is in a bit of a liminal state.
我当然很熟悉这样一个事实：白天和晚上的某些时候，我的大脑处于某种阈限状态。
It feels like somewhere between sleep and awake.
感觉就像介于睡眠和清醒之间。
And I just have learned that provided I block against outside sensory input as much as I can, in particular social media and the news, that I'll just be doing the dishes or preparing coffee or something, and something will come to mind seemingly out of nowhere.
我刚刚了解到，如果我尽可能地阻止外界感官输入，特别是社交媒体和新闻，我只会洗碗或准备咖啡或其他什么东西，而某些事情似乎会突然出现在我的脑海中。
It's not always a great insight.
这并不总是一个伟大的见解。
In fact, it's rarely a great insight.
事实上，这很少是一个伟大的见解。
But it always takes me a bit by surprise, sometimes a little bit of delight, sometimes a little bit of shock, like, "Wow, where did that come from?"
但它总是让我有点惊讶，有时有点高兴，有时有点震惊，就像，“哇，那是从哪里来的？”
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Because it came from your unconscious mind.
因为它来自你的潜意识。
It was invisible to you, then it got thrown up, and you're like, "Whoa!" And you realize it while in the midst of doing something relatively mundane.
它对你来说是看不见的，然后它被抛出来，你会说，“哇！”当你在做一些相对平凡的事情时你就会意识到这一点。
Because during the day, you're engaging.
因为白天你很投入。
Your brain is highly engaged, which is great, but it doesn't leave a lot of room for the unconscious mind to do its millions and millions of things a second that can help you figure things out.
你的大脑高度活跃，这很好，但它并没有给潜意识留下足够的空间来每秒做数以百万计的事情来帮助你弄清楚事情。
Which is the same reason, it's uncanny.
这也是同样的原因，令人匪夷所思。
Any psychiatrist will tell you this, that a person will come in and say, "It's strange.
任何精神科医生都会告诉你这一点，一个人进来后会说：“这很奇怪。
All of a sudden when I can finally relax, that's when I have a panic attack." Or they don't know.
突然间，当我终于可以放松时，我就会惊恐发作。”或者他们不知道。
"Then I can finally relax, and I go, 'Ah.' And then my heart's beating fast, and I'm sweating." Because that's when the panic attacks come.
“然后我终于可以放松了，我说，‘啊。’然后我的心就跳得很快，我就出汗了。”因为那是恐慌发作的时候。
If the person is laboring under something that is causing them this constant distress, when you stop focusing outward and you sort of settle into an inward state, then the things that are underneath the surface are going to come to the surface.
如果这个人正在承受某种导致他们持续痛苦的事情，当你停止向外关注并进入一种内在状态时，那么表面之下的事情就会浮出水面。
And if there's something really bothering you that your brain is very upset about or very afraid of, what does it throw up to the surface?
如果有什么事情确实困扰着你，你的大脑对此感到非常不安或非常害怕，那么它会抛出什么？
A panic attack.
惊恐发作。
But if you're in a good place, you're taking care of yourself, you're in a generative stage, you're in a safe environment, then when you stop putting all the attention outward.
但如果你处在一个好的地方，你会照顾好自己，你正处于一个生成阶段，你处于一个安全的环境中，那么当你停止将所有注意力放在外面时。
So we imagine then salience changes, and instead of a lot of the salience being outward, it starts to be inward, and you're just sort of meditative.
所以我们想象，然后显着性发生变化，很多显着性不再是外在的，而是开始向内的，而你只是在冥想。
You're washing the dishes.
你正在洗碗。
And there's room then for your unconscious mind to throw something important to the surface.
然后你的潜意识就有空间将一些重要的事情抛到表面。
It's the exact opposite of how people can't remember something if they're trying to think of it.
这与人们尝试去想却记不住的情况恰恰相反。
We all go through this.
我们都会经历这个。
Like, "Oh, I can't remember that person's name or that restaurant," or whatever it is.
就像，“哦，我不记得那个人的名字或那家餐厅”，或者其他什么。
Try to keep thinking about it and see if you figure it out.
试着继续思考，看看你是否能想出来。
The answer's not in your conscious mind, so if you keep bringing your conscious mind to bear, you just generate frustration.
答案并不在你的意识中，所以如果你继续让你的意识承受，你只会产生挫败感。
But then when you stop thinking about it, the answer's there inside of you.
但当你停止思考这个问题时，答案就在你内心。
"Oh, I remember now." So that's how if we have the conscious mind engaged in something it's not going to figure out, then it doesn't figure the thing out.
“哦，我现在想起来了。”因此，如果我们的意识思维从事于一些它无法弄清楚的事情，那么它就无法弄清楚这件事。
And that works for our problems, too.
这也适用于我们的问题。
That's why a person can say, "I thought about that for 10 years." No, you ruminated about it for 10 years.
这就是为什么一个人可以说：“我想了这个问题十年了。”不，你已经思考了十年。
It just ran over and over and over in the conscious mind.
它只是在意识中一遍又一遍地运行。
And how ironic.
多么讽刺啊。
It prevents understanding.
它阻碍了理解。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it's very clear to me that asking certain kinds of questions about oneself and one's self-narrative, life history, essentially, can be very beneficial in the moment or moments of doing that practice, as well as the subconscious or, I guess the appropriate way to refer to it is the unconscious.
因此，我很清楚，从本质上讲，问一些关于自己和自己的自我叙述、生活史的问题，在进行这种练习的时刻或潜意识中是非常有益的，或者，我想正确的说法是无意识。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Unconscious.
无意识的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right, okay.
对了，好吧。
So for those out there who, like me, sometimes say subconscious, it's unconscious.
所以对于那些像我一样有时会说潜意识的人来说，它是无意识的。
The unconscious can throw things up to the surface that can be real insights.
无意识可以把事情浮到表面，这可能是真正的洞察力。
Can give us not just panic attacks, which I think most people would like to shy away from.
给我们带来的不仅仅是恐慌，我想大多数人都想回避这种恐慌。
But as you point out, there's information in the fact that the panic attack is occurring under-
但正如你所指出的，有信息表明恐慌发作是在以下情况下发生的：
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
conditions of rest.
休息条件。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
And if you stir up the pot of the unconscious and you put some new information in, it can do new things.
如果你搅动无意识的锅并放入一些新信息，它就能做新的事情。
It can figure new things out.
它可以想出新的东西。
Which is why the process of self-reflection, for example, and often the process of therapy is not always, and in fact often is not, a pleasant process.
这就是为什么自我反省的过程，以及通常的治疗过程并不总是，而且事实上常常不是一个令人愉快的过程。
But then we take away from that hard work renewed insights.
但随后我们从艰苦的工作中获得了新的见解。
So someone, this happens all the time, who knows, they know that a certain trauma is inside of them and has been affecting them, whether it's for days or weeks or years.
所以有人，这种情况一直在发生，谁知道呢，他们知道某种创伤存在于他们的内心并且一直在影响他们，无论是几天、几周还是几年。
They know it.
他们知道。
They don't know what to do about it.
他们不知道该怎么办。
They have a conflict about it, so they keep trying to shove it under the surface.
他们对此有冲突，所以他们一直试图将其隐藏在表面之下。
And they finally accept, for whatever reason, to talk about it.
不管出于什么原因，他们最终接受了谈论这件事。
And what often happens then is, let's say during three or four successive weeks of hourly therapy, that person is crying and that person is upset, or that person is angry.
然后经常发生的情况是，假设在连续三到四个星期的每小时治疗中，那个人在哭泣，那个人感到不安，或者那个人很生气。
It doesn't always happen this way, but it does a fair amount of the time.
它并不总是以这种方式发生，但在相当多的时间里它会发生。
As they get better and better, because they're discharging some of the energy.
随着他们变得越来越好，因为他们正在释放一些能量。
Maybe they're crying and they're sad because they're grieving something they haven't grieved before.
也许他们在哭泣并且感到悲伤，因为他们正在悲伤一些他们以前从未悲伤过的事情。
Because they've just been angry.
因为他们刚刚生气了。
Or they've just been ashamed.
或者他们只是感到羞耻。
A classic example is a death.
一个典型的例子就是死亡。
How many times do people think, "Well, that can't be still affecting me.
有多少次人们会想：“好吧，这不可能仍然影响着我。
It was X number of years ago." But they've never actually grieved because they carry in them, "Oh, it was my fault." And how many times do we hear that?
那是X年前的事了。”但他们从来没有真正感到悲伤，因为他们内心深处有这样的想法：“哦，这是我的错。”我们听过多少次了？
"I should've said something different before.
“我之前应该说一些不同的话。
I should've gone..." We then back map something that makes us feel bad, and then from the guilt and shame comes the inability to process grief.
我应该离开……”然后我们回想一些让我们感觉不好的事情，然后从内疚和羞耻中产生无法处理悲伤的情绪。
So if the person then deals with, "I feel so bad about this.
因此，如果这个人接下来会说：“我对此感到非常难过。
In fact, I feel so ashamed of it and I feel like it's my fault." And say, "Okay, well, let's talk about that." Right?
事实上，我对此感到非常羞愧，我觉得这是我的错。”然后说：“好吧，我们来谈谈这个吧。”正确的？
After my brother's death by suicide, I felt responsible.
哥哥自杀身亡后，我感到自己有责任。
I was not involved in any way in mental health.
我没有以任何方式参与心理健康。
I had a business career at the time, and I finally went and saw someone.
我当时正经商，终于去看了一个人。
I wasn't acculturated that getting therapy was something one did, but I realized, "Hey, I'm not okay." Right?
我不明白接受治疗是一个人必须要做的事情，但我意识到，“嘿，我不好。”正确的？
So I didn't know how.
所以我不知道怎么办。
I just knew the manifestation of it, which was misery and risk and I could just tell.
我只知道它的表现，那就是痛苦和风险，我只能说出来。
I know what it feels like to not feel like this, and this is not okay.
我知道不这样的感觉是什么感觉，这不好。
So then I called the insurance number eventually.
所以最后我拨通了保险号码。
I go in and see a therapist and she did-- I'm sure she was a very good therapist, but she didn't, in a sense, need to be, in the sense that sometimes we don't need to use all the things we know.
我去看了一位治疗师，她做了——我确信她是一位非常好的治疗师，但从某种意义上说，她不需要，因为有时我们不需要使用我们所知道的所有东西。
We can do just something basic with someone, and that's all she did with me.
我们可以和某人做一些基本的事情，而这就是她对我所做的一切。
She got me talking about it, and then I talked about how ashamed I was because it was my fault, and then, "Really?" And then she challenged me about that and then, in a nice way, but then it became clear that I was so utterly shocked by it.
她让我谈论这件事，然后我谈论我是多么羞愧，因为这是我的错，然后，“真的吗？”然后她以一种很好的方式向我提出了挑战，但后来很明显我对此感到非常震惊。
Far from it being foreseeable to me.
远不是我可以预见的。
That the problem that I was having now was the shock of it and the sense of shame and guilt that it raised in me, and then me shoving it under the surface, not knowing what to do with it.
我现在遇到的问题是它所带来的震惊以及它在我心中引起的羞耻感和内疚感，然后我把它推到表面之下，不知道该怎么办。
Then it's making all sorts of misery in me, and I can't actually grieve.
然后它给我带来了各种各样的痛苦，而我实际上无法悲伤。
Right?
正确的？
So at some point during those sessions, now I'm sad and I'm crying.
所以在这些会议的某个时刻，现在我很伤心，我在哭。
And I know what she was thinking.
我知道她在想什么。
She, "Good.
她：“好。
Okay.
好的。
Thank goodness.
感谢上帝。
This person getting better." She probably felt a sense of relief because she could see, "Hey, he's coming out of risk.
这个人越来越好了。”她可能感到如释重负，因为她可以看到，“嘿，他已经摆脱了危险。
He's able to feel sadness.
他能够感受到悲伤。
He's able to grieve.
他有能力悲伤。
He hasn't been doing this before." So it's that work, Wade, if we put into it, that makes a difference, just as in physical health.
他以前没有这样做过。”所以，韦德，如果我们投入其中，就会产生影响，就像身体健康一样。
If I want to be stronger, I want to be more robust, I have to go to the gym and work, or I have to do something that's hard work, and then I get the benefit of it.
如果我想变得更强壮，我想要变得更健壮，我必须去健身房工作，或者我必须做一些艰苦的工作，然后我才能从中受益。
And the same is true whether we're reflecting on our life narrative and it brings some difficult emotions to us, or whether we're talking with someone or whether we're doing it in therapy.
无论我们是在反思我们的生活叙事并且它给我们带来了一些困难的情绪，还是我们在与某人交谈，或者我们是否在治疗中这样做，情况都是如此。
But that's how that process of inquiry leads us to take some of the Gordian knots in us, so to speak, and to cut them instead of trying to figure out, how am I going to feel okay about myself even though I'm responsible for my brother's death because I should have foreseen it?
但这就是这个探究过程如何引导我们解决内心的一些棘手问题，可以这么说，并解决它们，而不是试图弄清楚，即使我对我兄弟的死负有责任，因为我应该预见到它，我该如何自我感觉良好？
That doesn't work.
那是行不通的。
You have to say, "I see what that thing is, and that has to go away." And then therapy can lead us to the point where, "Oh, it wasn't my fault, then, oh my goodness, I'm sad."
你必须说：“我明白那东西是什么了，它必须消失。”然后治疗可以引导我们到这样的地步：“哦，这不是我的错，那么，哦天哪，我很难过。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a brief break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, AG1.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 AG1。
AG1 is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that meets all of your foundational nutrition needs.
AG1 是一种维生素矿物质益生菌饮料，可满足您所有的基本营养需求。
I started taking AG1 way back in 2012, so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast.
我早在 2012 年就开始观看 AG1，所以我很高兴他们赞助这个播客。
The reason I started taking AG1, and the reason I still take AG1 once or generally twice per day, is that it's the easiest way for me to ensure that I'm getting all of the vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and fiber that I need in my diet.
我开始服用 AG1 的原因，以及我仍然每天服用一次或一般两次 AG1 的原因是，这对我来说是确保我从饮食中获取所需的所有维生素、矿物质、益生菌和纤维的最简单方法。
Now, of course, it's essential to get proper nutrition from whole foods.
当然，现在从天然食品中获取适当的营养至关重要。
But most people, including myself, find it hard to get enough servings of fruits and vegetables each day, and especially to get enough prebiotics and probiotics to ensure gut health.
但大多数人，包括我自己，发现每天很难获得足够的水果和蔬菜，尤其是获得足够的益生元和益生菌来确保肠道健康。
As you may know, your gut contains trillions of little microbiota, the so-called gut microbiome, which establishes critical connections with other organs of your body to enhance brain health, as well as to support your immune system and other aspects that relate to mental and physical health.
您可能知道，您的肠道含有数万亿个小微生物群，即所谓的肠道微生物组，它与您身体的其他器官建立了重要的联系，以增强大脑健康，并支持您的免疫系统和与身心健康相关的其他方面。
One of the most common questions I get is, if you were to take just one supplement, which supplement would that be?
我最常见的问题之一是，如果您只服用一种补充剂，会选择哪种补充剂？
And my answer is always AG1, because by taking AG1, I'm able to ensure that I'm getting all of the vitamins, minerals, and probiotics that I need to enhance my mental health, physical health, and performance.
我的答案始终是 AG1，因为通过服用 AG1，我能够确保获得增强心理健康、身体健康和表现所需的所有维生素、矿物质和益生菌。
If you'd like to try AG1, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，请访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 以获得特别优惠。
They'll give you five free travel packs, and they'll give you a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2.
他们会为您提供五个免费旅行包，并为您提供一年的维生素 D3 K2。
Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman to claim this special offer.
再次强调，请通过 Drinkag1.com/huberman 领取此特别优惠。
I can see how self-inquiry is really powerful.
我可以看到自我探究的力量是多么强大。
I've certainly experienced that in my own life, and it's an ongoing process.
我在自己的生活中确实经历过这种情况，而且这是一个持续的过程。
This is not something that one does and then stops.
这不是人们做了然后就停止的事情。
Ideally, you do it forever, just like physical fitness.
理想情况下，你会永远这样做，就像健身一样。
And at the same time, I know that a number of people perhaps are wary of self-inquiry, especially because of the pain points it can bring about and make conscious and that we have to really sit with.
与此同时，我知道很多人可能对自我探究持谨慎态度，特别是因为它可能带来并让我们意识到的痛点，而我们必须真正面对这些痛点。
And most people would like to avoid discomfort.
大多数人都希望避免不适。
I'm sure there are also people who are doing quite well in life and therefore think, "Oh, pattern of self-inquiry, all it could do, it sounds like it's more harm.
我确信也有人在生活中过得很好，因此会想：“哦，自我探究的模式，它所能做的一切，听起来似乎更有害。
Why would I want to do that?" But I think we both agree that there's nothing but good and progress and more agency and gratitude to be had by going through patterns of self-inquiry.
我为什么要这么做？”但我想我们都同意，通过自我探究的模式，除了好的、进步、更多的能动性和感激之情之外，什么也没有。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
I think that really highlights something very important, which is that self-inquiry isn't always the right answer.
我认为这确实凸显了一些非常重要的事情，那就是自我探究并不总是正确的答案。
Now, I think just because things are going well, that doesn't mean self-inquiry isn't the right thing to do.
现在，我认为事情进展顺利并不意味着自我探究不是正确的做法。
Self-inquiry is always the right thing to do if we want to understand ourselves better, unless we're in a place where it can bring real risk to us.
如果我们想更好地了解自己，自我探究总是正确的做法，除非我们处于一个会给我们带来真正风险的地方。
So when I was trying to think about myself, inquire why was I so miserable, what's going on in me, I reached a point where I realized I'm not getting myself anywhere, and I'm getting worse, and this is not good for me, because where did this self-inquiry lead me?
因此，当我试图思考自己，询问为什么我如此痛苦，我身上发生了什么时，我意识到我没有任何进展，而且我变得越来越糟，这对我来说并不好，因为这种自我探究将我引向何方？
To more guilt and shame.
更多的愧疚和羞耻。
So then at some point, I sort of pulled the rip cord.
所以在某个时刻，我拉开了开伞绳。
I was like, "I can't do this on my own anymore." Right?
我当时想，“我不能再一个人做这件事了。”正确的？
And that's very, very important to anyone who's listening.
这对于任何正在倾听的人来说都非常非常重要。
If you feel like, "Look, I don't think I'm in a safe or a stable place." Again, thoughts of self-harm, thoughts of hopelessness, then it probably is not.
如果你觉得，“听着，我不认为我处在一个安全或稳定的地方。”再说一次，自残的想法，绝望的想法，那么它可能不是。
Or let's err on the side of being cautious.
或者我们宁可谨慎一点。
It is not a good idea then to engage in self-inquiry.
那么进行自我探究并不是一个好主意。
First go see someone clinically.
首先去临床看某人。
And I know that can be hard to do in this day and age, but if we really advocate for ourselves, we really push, we do whatever we can do to try and get in front of someone who can kind of help us understand what we may need.
我知道在当今时代这可能很难做到，但如果我们真正为自己辩护，我们真正推动，我们会尽一切努力尝试站在可以帮助我们了解我们可能需要什么的人面前。
And maybe that person helps us with the process of self-inquiry.
也许那个人可以帮助我们进行自我探究。
Maybe that person reassures us.
也许那个人让我们安心。
Maybe that person then tells us that we really do need more care, more help, and then it leads to us getting that so that we can come back to the good place of being well enough for the self-inquiry.
也许那个人然后告诉我们，我们确实需要更多的照顾、更多的帮助，然后它会引导我们得到这些，这样我们就可以回到足够健康的状态来进行自我探究。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm grateful you shared your path to working with a clinician and the fact that just focusing on something on your own wasn't really working, and there was, it sounds like a requirement for a clinician to help guide you through that.
我很感激你分享了你与临床医生合作的道路，事实上，仅仅专注于自己的事情并没有真正起作用，而且，这听起来像是需要临床医生帮助指导你完成这一点。
It relates directly to what I'm most curious about at this moment, which is in the map that you established for us in episode one and that is carried through all these episodes.
它直接关系到我此刻最好奇的事情，那就是你在第一集中为我们建立的地图，并且贯穿所有这些剧集。
And by the way, if people are not familiar with the map, we'll cover it in top contour in a little bit more depth in a moment here.
顺便说一句，如果人们不熟悉这张地图，我们稍后会在顶部轮廓中更深入地介绍它。
But one of the key things, or cupboards, as we're referring to them, to look in in order to exert self-care and improve one's mental health is this notion of self-awareness, of really understanding that there's an I, a me, and exploring what that's really about in the moment, but also historically through narrative, et cetera.
但是，为了实现自我保健和改善一个人的心理健康，关键的事情之一，或者说橱柜，正如我们所说的，是自我意识的概念，是真正理解有一个我，一个我，并探索那一刻的真实情况，但也可以通过叙述来历史性地了解，等等。
Also in this map is a cupboard that relates to salience.
这张地图中还有一个与显着性相关的橱柜。
What's most obvious or what do we default to, both internally in terms of what sorts of thoughts we default to, and externally, what are we focusing on in the outside world?
什么是最明显的，或者我们默认什么，无论是在内部我们默认的想法是什么，还是在外部，我们在外部世界关注什么？
And I think I, and perhaps many other people out there, are wondering how to resolve any conflict between a practice that is aimed at increasing self-awareness and perhaps even drawing to mind early traumas or challenges, or recent traumas or challenges, and salience.
我想我，也许还有很多其他人，都想知道如何解决旨在提高自我意识的实践与显着性之间的任何冲突，甚至可能引起人们对早期创伤或挑战，或最近的创伤或挑战的关注。
In other words, if I were to take some moments or even an hour once a week and sit there and really think about the sorts of things that I don't want to think about.
换句话说，如果我每周花一些时间甚至一个小时坐在那里，认真思考那些我不想思考的事情。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That have been gnawing at me below the surface for a very long time.
这已经在表面之下折磨了我很长一段时间。
The stuff that I've gained some proficiency at pushing down beneath the surface.
我已经熟练掌握了将这些东西推到表面之下的能力。
I think one fear that I have, and so I have to assume other people have it as well, is that if I were to bring that to mind, that it would overtake a lot of my waking hours.
我认为我有一个恐惧，所以我必须假设其他人也有这个恐惧，那就是如果我想到这一点，它会占用我很多醒着的时间。
It's like I don't want to think about this thing or those things.
就好像我不想去想这个或那些事情。
And so now what's salient is something negative.
所以现在最突出的是一些负面的东西。
And when I'm focused on something negative, then I'm not able to be as generative as I would like.
当我专注于消极的事情时，我就无法像我想要的那样富有创造力。
Move forward toward my life goals.
朝着我的人生目标前进。
Now, I could even have the realization, the cognitive understanding that okay, but that's necessary, right?
现在，我什至可以有认识，认知理解，好吧，但那是必要的，对吗？
This is like getting a wound fixed or dealing with a chronic injury.
这就像修复伤口或处理慢性损伤一样。
Sooner or later, you got to deal with it, otherwise you're not going to be at your best.
迟早，你必须面对它，否则你就不会处于最佳状态。
But that conflict between gaining more self-awareness and also the understanding that what is most salient to us kind of defines the quality of our daily life.
但是，获得更多的自我意识和理解对我们来说最重要的东西之间的冲突决定了我们日常生活的质量。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That conflict or friction seems like an important thing for us to drill into a little bit.
对于我们来说，这种冲突或摩擦似乎是一件很重要的事情，需要深入探讨。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
And I would say this: If you think there's something that you can't bring up into consciousness because it's going to take over your mind, or as people often say, "I'm going to curl up in a fetal position.
我想说的是：如果你认为有些东西你无法进入意识，因为它会占据你的思想，或者正如人们常说的那样，“我会像胎儿一样蜷缩起来。
I'm going to cry and never stop." That is exactly the thing you must look at.
我会哭，而且永远不会停止。”这正是你必须关注的事情。
Because salience presents itself in a whole array of ways.
因为显着性以多种方式呈现。
So if there's something inside of you that's strong enough, that it's throwing itself up to the surface like, "Hey, maybe you want to think about me." So your unconscious mind throwing it up to the surface, that is active in you.
所以，如果你内心有某种东西足够强大，它就会浮出水面，比如，“嘿，也许你想想想我。”所以你的潜意识把它抛到了表面，这在你身上是活跃的。
And often, although a lot of it happens in the unconscious mind, it happens also in the conscious mind.
通常，虽然很多事情发生在无意识的头脑中，但它也发生在有意识的头脑中。
And if the person then stops and thinks, how much might that thing that you are not thinking about be impacting you?
如果这个人停下来思考，你没有想到的那件事会对你产生多大的影响？
How might it be salient in other ways?
它如何在其他方面变得突出？
And sometimes a person will realize, like, "Yeah, that's on my mind." People say, "Oh, that's on my mind all the time.
有时一个人会意识到，“是的，我就这么想。”人们说：“哦，这一直在我的脑海里。
It's kind of on the back burner, but always there." And he says, "Right, what do you mean on the back burner?" That's like having a voice in the background telling you something very negative or very distressing.
它有点被放在次要位置，但始终存在。”他说：“对了，你说的暂时搁置是什么意思？”这就像背景中有一个声音告诉你一些非常消极或非常痛苦的事情。
And it's just one example where oftentimes there's a realization that that thing is actually quite salient.
这只是一个例子，人们常常意识到这一点实际上非常重要。
Sometimes there isn't a realization until later.
有时直到后来才意识到。
Oh, the salience of that is that's why I don't let myself get ahead.
哦，最重要的是，这就是为什么我不让自己取得成功。
It can come out later because we don't know how much of it is unconscious, how much of it is conscious.
它可能会在稍后出现，因为我们不知道其中有多少是无意识的，有多少是有意识的。
But under the right circumstances, if things are safe, as we said, if there's not something going on that presents risk and warrants clinical care, if there's something inside of you and you think, "I can't let that to the surface," then what that is telling you is, "I must let that to the surface." Now again, we want to do it in judicious ways, and do it in ways that are safe, but that's the message.
但在适当的情况下，如果事情是安全的，正如我们所说，如果没有发生任何带来风险并需要临床护理的事情，如果你内心有什么东西，而你认为，“我不能让它浮出水面”，那么这告诉你的是，“我必须让它浮出水面。”现在，我们再次希望以明智、安全的方式来做这件事，但这就是信息。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it's especially important that you mentioned that if something is gnawing at our conscious mind every once in a while, then it absolutely has to be operating below the level of our conscious awareness.
我认为特别重要的是，你提到如果有什么东西时不时地侵蚀我们的意识，那么它绝对必须在我们的意识水平以下运作。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Maybe running amok-
也许是胡作非为——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All the time
一直以来
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
...
...
below the level of consciousness.
低于意识水平。
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
So if ever there was a cause for exploring something like that-
所以如果有理由去探索这样的事情的话——
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that's it, right?
就是这样，对吧？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because we can't be aware of the ways that's damaging to us or limiting us.
因为我们无法意识到哪些方式正在损害我们或限制我们。
Again, somebody listening to this could be doing quite well and thinking, "Well, I'm doing great.
同样，听到这个的人可能做得很好，并想：“嗯，我做得很好。
Why would I want to do any of this?" Well, perhaps they could be doing that much better.
我为什么要做这些事？”好吧，也许他们可以做得更好。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Self-awareness and addressing one's personal narrative and a sense of I is what we called cupboard one under the function of self.
自我意识、处理个人叙事和“我”感，就是我们所说的自我功能下的“橱柜一”。
Now, for those that listened to episodes one, two, or three, they'll be familiar with what I'm talking about when I say a cupboard one function of self.
现在，对于那些听过第一集、第二集或第三集的人来说，当我说橱柜是自我的一种功能时，他们会熟悉我在说什么。
But just for sake of getting everybody on the same page as we move forward here, maybe we could just return to the map of mental health for a moment.
但为了让每个人在我们前进的过程中达成共识，也许我们可以暂时回到心理健康地图上来。
We've talked about agency and gratitude as verb states, and you also described in previous episodes this key, really essential concept of this generative drive.
我们已经将代理和感恩作为动词状态进行了讨论，您也在之前的剧集中描述了这种生成驱动力的关键、真正重要的概念。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if you could just take a few minutes for us and really explain what agency and gratitude are, how one goes about building those up and expressing those, and what the generative drive is, and then we'll return to the 10 cupboards of inquiry under the structure of self and function of self, which Really represent the pillars and all the stuff that geysers up into these simple but extremely powerful concepts and ways of being, which are agency and gratitude.
因此，如果你能花几分钟时间为我们真正解释什么是能动性和感恩，如何构建和表达它们，以及生成动力是什么，然后我们将回到自我结构和自我功能下的10个探究柜子，它们真正代表了这些简单但极其强大的概念和存在方式的支柱和所有东西，这就是能动性和感恩。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
So I really liked when you brought the image of a geyser to mind.
所以我真的很喜欢你让我想起间歇泉的形象。
Because if we think about the structure of self, which is one pillar, and the function of self, which is another pillar, underneath those pillars, there are the 10 cupboards we've been talking about.
因为如果我们思考自我的结构，它是一根支柱，而自我的功能，它是另一根支柱，那么在这些支柱下面，就有我们一直在谈论的10个柜子。
And they represent the areas of inquiry for us because they're the aspects of the structure and function of self.
它们代表了我们探究的领域，因为它们是自我结构和功能的各个方面。
So that's where the answers are.
这就是答案所在。
The answers are in those pillars.
答案就在这些支柱中。
The answers are in those 10 cupboards.
答案就在那 10 个柜子里。
So if we're doing that, we're looking there, we're honoring what we find there, we're becoming healthier, then that geyser, I imagine it coming out, like the space in between the pillars.
因此，如果我们这样做，我们会观察那里，我们会尊重我们在那里发现的东西，我们会变得更健康，然后那个间歇泉，我想象它会出来，就像柱子之间的空间一样。
And what it is lifting up is, first, empowerment and humility.
首先，它所提升的是赋权和谦逊。
But empowerment and humility are qualities.
但赋权和谦逊是品质。
And the way we're using them, they're qualities, they're potential.
我们使用它们的方式，它们是品质，它们是潜力。
So I have empowerment as opposed to being disempowered.
因此，我拥有权力，而不是被剥夺权力。
So I have humility instead of, for example, a reactive grandiosity or even a reactive self-oppression.
所以我有谦卑，而不是，例如，反应性的浮夸，甚至是反应性的自我压抑。
So I have these qualities of empowerment and humility, and then they become enacted.
所以我拥有这些赋权和谦逊的品质，然后它们就被体现出来了。
They become expressed by us.
它们由我们来表达。
And I imagine riding on the top is the agency, and the gratitude is at the top of the geyser, and it's moving.
我想象骑在上面的是机构，感激之情在间歇泉的顶部，它是令人感动的。
They're verbs.
它们是动词。
We navigate life as life moves forward.
我们随着生活的前进而导航生活。
I will often think like being on the luge you see in the Olympics, where the person's going down the twisting path, and it's like that's us moving through life.
我常常会想，就像在奥运会上看到的无舵雪橇上，人们沿着蜿蜒的道路走下去，就像我们在生活中前进一样。
And we all have different pathways, but they can interconnect, and they can cross.
我们都有不同的道路，但它们可以相互联系，也可以交叉。
But that's what's happening.
但这就是正在发生的事情。
Living is an active thing.
生活是一件积极主动的事情。
So agency and gratitude are active things.
因此，能动性和感恩是积极的事情。
Why?
为什么？
Because they're the ultimate expression of all underneath of them.
因为它们是它们下面所有事物的终极表达。
That's where it goes.
这就是它的去向。
If the pillars are in the right place, the geyser can function.
如果支柱位于正确的位置，间歇泉就能发挥作用。
The empowerment and humility are with us, so we're engaging with ourselves, with others, with the world through a lens of clarity and through a lens of knowing we can make the world a better place and knowing our role in it.
赋权和谦逊与我们同在，因此我们通过清晰的视角与自己、与他人、与世界接触，通过知道我们可以让世界变得更美好并了解我们在其中的角色的视角。
That's very active.
这非常活跃。
And then it brings to us the peace, the contentment, the delight that weaves in and out.
然后它给我们带来了交织在一起的平安、满足和喜悦。
As you describe that you will feel the peace, the contentment, the delight when you're doing the solo podcasts.
正如你所描述的，当你做个人播客时，你会感受到平静、满足和快乐。
But you're doing something very active.
但你正在做一些非常活跃的事情。
It's not a passive endeavor during which you feel all those things.
这不是一种让你感受到所有这些事情的被动努力。
But that makes sense.
但这是有道理的。
Peace doesn't mean nothingness.
和平并不意味着什么都没有。
Now it can.
现在可以了。
Someone who's looking out the window at the garden they planted can feel that too.
看着窗外他们种植的花园的人也能感受到这一点。
But there's life going on in them also.
但它们身上也有生命力。
They're contemplating the garden.
他们正在考虑花园。
They know that they made the garden.
他们知道花园是他们建造的。
So these are all active processes because life is an active process.
所以这些都是主动的过程，因为生命是一个主动的过程。
And then we end up in this place of looking inside of us.
然后我们最终陷入了审视自己内心的境地。
These drives within us are both deterministic and determined.
我们内心的这些驱动力既是确定性的又是确定的。
So think about how active a process that is, where we have a natural bias one way or another because of our genetics.
因此，想一想这是一个多么活跃的过程，因为我们的基因，我们在其中以某种方式存在自然偏见。
Just like someone has a natural aptitude to be taller and someone shorter, or to be more or less athletic.
就像一个人有天生的天赋，可以长得更高，有人矮一点，或者运动能力更强或更弱。
We have potential within us when the genetics come together.
当基因结合在一起时，我们内在就有潜力。
And that may determine some sort of set of parameters.
这可能会决定某种参数集。
So maybe someone who doesn't have the blessings of being so athletic, perhaps myself.
所以也许是一个没有如此运动天赋的人，也许是我自己。
I'm not going to be the world's greatest athlete.
我不会成为世界上最伟大的运动员。
But if I work hard, I could be a lot more athletic and have been at times.
但如果我努力工作，我的运动能力可能会更强，而且有时确实如此。
And if I don't, I could be a lot less athletic.
如果我不这样做，我的运动能力可能会大大降低。
So there are potentials within us that get sort of genetically determined but have a wide array of variance around them.
因此，我们体内的潜力是由基因决定的，但周围却存在很大的差异。
And then our choices determine where we are in that variance.
然后我们的选择决定了我们在这种差异中的位置。
If I don't take care of myself, I will be on the very low end of the athletic spectrum.
如果我不照顾好自己，我将处于运动水平的最低端。
If I do and I cultivate myself, I can be on a higher end for me.
如果我这样做并修炼自己，我就能达到更高的目标。
But still, that's a lot better than the lower end.
但仍然比低端好很多。
There's a very big difference.
有很大的不同。
The same is true in our drives.
我们的驱动器也是如此。
So the more we're taking care of ourselves, we're reinforcing the primacy of the generative drive.
因此，我们越是照顾好自己，我们就越能强化生成驱动力的首要地位。
And then the aggression, assertion, proactive.
然后是攻击性、断言、主动性。
That drive in us is realized as best we're going to realize it.
我们的这种动力会随着我们所能实现的而得到最大程度的实现。
And not everyone's is going to be off the chart.
并不是每个人都会脱离图表。
And that's okay.
没关系。
But that drive is in a place that lets that person take care of themselves, have a job they enjoy and can do well at, and make their home life better, whatever it is that we can do.
但这种驱动力是让那个人照顾自己，拥有一份他们喜欢并能做得很好的工作，让他们的家庭生活变得更好，无论我们能做什么。
We're more assertive.
我们更加自信。
We're more engaged.
我们更加投入。
And then that's bringing us more pleasure.
然后这给我们带来了更多的乐趣。
So the pleasure drive, again, it's not a hedonistic drive.
所以，再次强调，快乐驱动力不是享乐主义驱动力。
It's drive for things we enjoy.
它是我们享受事物的动力。
We enjoy safety.
我们享受安全。
We enjoy absence of pain.
我们享受没有痛苦的感觉。
But we also enjoy friends and romance and sex and food.
但我们也享受朋友、浪漫、性和食物。
These are things that bring us gratification, and we can have that in a healthy place, too.
这些东西可以给我们带来满足感，我们也可以在健康的地方拥有这些满足感。
So there's not too much and not too little of the aggression, assertion, proactive drive.
因此，攻击性、主张、主动性并不少，也不少。
Not too much, not too little of the pleasure drive.
快乐驾驶的乐趣不能太多，也不能太少。
And then we're in a place where we can meet where those drives are at.
然后我们就可以在这些驱动力所在的地方相遇。
So if the pleasure drive is in a certain place in us, we can meet that.
因此，如果快乐驱动力存在于我们体内的某个位置，我们就能满足它。
And maybe we foster it moving a little higher up because we're doing good things and we're taking care of ourselves.
也许我们会促进它向上移动一点，因为我们在做善事并且我们在照顾自己。
So if our romance is in a better place, then we can take more pleasure in our romance.
因此，如果我们的浪漫处于更好的位置，那么我们就能从浪漫中获得更多乐趣。
If our physical fitness is in a better place, we can enjoy that more.
如果我们的身体素质更好，我们就能享受更多。
We can do more things.
我们可以做更多的事情。
So we are Helping those drives to be in the optimal place to subserve the generative drive, which we are trying to optimize and maximize.
因此，我们正在帮助这些驱动力处于最佳位置，以促进我们正在努力优化和最大化的生成驱动力。
And that puts us in the best place to have the things under those pillars, in those cupboards, in a good place.
这让我们处于最好的位置，可以将东西放在那些柱子下、那些橱柜里、放在一个好地方。
And then on top of that geyser is the empowerment and the humility, and then that gets enacted as agency and gratitude, and we have more of the goodness of peace and contentment and delight, and that reinforces the generative drive.
然后在间歇泉之上是赋权和谦逊，然后它被表现为代理和感恩，我们有更多的和平、满足和喜悦的美好，这加强了生成动力。
So that's what's going on.
这就是正在发生的事情。
And it has never failed me yet to read or listen to someone communicating happiness, either what they think it is, how they found it, what they're striving for, what they think it philosophically is, right?
我从未让我读过或听过有人传达幸福，无论他们认为幸福是什么，他们如何找到幸福，他们正在努力争取什么，他们从哲学上认为幸福是什么，对吗？
It's all that, right?
就是这样，对吧？
And it's not as simple as a word, right?
而且这也不是一句话那么简单，对吧？
Because it's complex.
因为它很复杂。
We're complex, but the beauty of it all is the complexity is within us, but it's not out of our reach to understand ourselves better and help ourselves.
我们很复杂，但美丽之处就在于我们内心的复杂性，但更好地了解自己和帮助自己并不是超出我们的能力范围。
And if we do that, as we move further up the hierarchy, it gets simpler.
如果我们这样做，当我们进一步提升层次结构时，事情就会变得更简单。
Approaching the world through agency and gratitude as verbs, it's pretty straightforward.
通过代理和感恩作为动词来接近世界，这非常简单。
That's why that's the best metric for romantic compatibility, right?
这就是为什么这是浪漫兼容性的最佳衡量标准，对吗？
It's not this person plays a musical instrument and that person's a mathematician, so they're not compatible.
并不是这个人会演奏乐器，而那个人是数学家，所以他们不兼容。
No more than one plays the trumpet, one plays the clarinet, and we assume they are compatible.
只有一个人吹小号，一个人吹单簧管，我们假设他们是兼容的。
Where are those drives at?
这些驱动器在哪里？
Are people healthy, in a healthy place?
人们在健康的地方健康吗？
We can then take the best care of ourselves, engage with others in a healthy way, understand who's a healthy other to engage with, right?
然后我们就可以最好地照顾自己，以健康的方式与他人交往，了解谁是一个健康的交往对象，对吗？
Get ourselves out of unhealthy situations, and then we're building health within ourselves and around ourselves.
让我们自己摆脱不健康的状况，然后我们就能在自己内部和周围建立健康。
And that's how, at the different levels of emergence, things get better.
这就是在不同的涌现阶段，事情变得更好的方式。
So if I make myself healthier and you make yourself healthier, we will be healthier as a group of two.
因此，如果我让自己更健康，你让自己更健康，我们两个人就会更健康。
That's always how that is.
总是这样。
And if we're healthier as a group of two, we can be healthier as parts of larger groups, right?
如果我们作为两个人的群体更健康，那么我们作为更大群体的一部分也可以更健康，对吧？
Or if the groups are unhealthy, we're pushing towards greater health, right?
或者，如果这些群体不健康，我们正在推动更加健康，对吧？
We're engendering health, and that's how we see health grow until it can be manifest even on a cultural level, where we're taking better care of ourselves.
我们正在创造健康，这就是我们看到健康增长的方式，直到它甚至可以在文化层面上体现出来，在那里我们可以更好地照顾自己。
We're less punitive.
我们的惩罚力度较小。
We're less rushing forward as a society and trampling the vulnerable, right?
作为一个社会，我们不再那么急于前进并践踏弱势群体，对吧？
And we realize, "Oh, I could be the vulnerable." Right?
我们意识到，“哦，我可能是弱势群体。”正确的？
I care about other people, even if I don't know them, because I can understand and empathize with what it feels like to be vulnerable.
我关心其他人，即使我不认识他们，因为我可以理解并同情脆弱的感觉。
And furthermore, I could be among the vulnerable.
此外，我可能属于弱势群体之一。
So we behave differently as a culture, and that's what we're searching for on an individual level all the way up to a cultural level.
因此，作为一种文化，我们的行为方式有所不同，这就是我们从个人层面一直到文化层面所寻求的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have several questions.
我有几个问题。
But first I want to just highlight what you said about relational structure, relationships, and the fact that, as was explored in episode three, and you made so clear, and it just makes so much sense, most of what people explore for when looking for a romantic partner or determining whether or not their existing romantic relationship could be better or not is focused on the wrong things.
但首先，我想强调一下你所说的关于关系结构、关系的内容，以及一个事实，正如第三集所探讨的那样，你说得很清楚，而且它非常有道理，人们在寻找浪漫伴侣或确定他们现有的浪漫关系是否可以更好时所探索的大部分内容都集中在错误的事情上。
Right?
正确的？
These very kind of superficial notions of what people enjoy and even level of education, some of which can really matter, but that's not the critical issue at hand.
这些关于人们享受什么甚至教育水平的肤浅概念，其中一些确实很重要，但这不是当前的关键问题。
And that the maps that the two individuals have and the extent to which they are expressing their generative drive and agency and gratitude is far, far more important.
两个人拥有的地图以及他们表达自己的生成动力、能动性和感激之情的程度要重要得多。
And so for those that haven't heard episode three and are interested in relationships, not just romantic relationships, but relationships of all kinds.
对于那些还没有听过第三集并且对人际关系感兴趣的人来说，不仅仅是浪漫关系，而是各种关系。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Work, family.
工作、家庭。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Relationship to self, friendship.
与自我的关系，友谊。
I highly, highly recommend listening to that conversation because it's truly spectacular in terms of its actionable takeaways.
我强烈、强烈建议您听一下这次对话，因为它的可操作要点确实非常精彩。
By actionable, I mean actions, of course, behaviors, and also modes of thinking that can really serve people.
我所说的可操作，是指行动，当然是真正能够为人们服务的行为，还有思维方式。
I also just want to make one clarification that I believe that when you said hierarchy, when you said move up the hierarchy, you were referring to the hierarchy within the map that's been laid out here.
我还想澄清一点，我相信当你说层次结构时，当你说向上移动层次结构时，你指的是此处列出的地图内的层次结构。
Right?
正确的？
I don't want people to get mistakenly distracted by the possibility that we're talking about some sort of external social hierarchy.
我不希望人们因为我们正在谈论某种外部社会等级制度而错误地分散注意力。
So I just want to clarify that.
所以我只想澄清这一点。
And that's actually a perfect jumping-off place for going into the map with a little bit more depth and detail, and exploring these cupboards that reside at the lower levels of the map and that are quite complex, okay?
这实际上是一个完美的起点，可以更深入地了解地图，并探索位于地图较低层且相当复杂的橱柜，好吗？
So for those of you listening who have not yet gone and accessed the PDF that we put in the show note captions, you can do that at any point.
因此，对于那些尚未访问我们在节目注释标题中放入的 PDF 的听众来说，您可以随时访问。
But what we're talking about is a bunch of things down at the bottom under these two pillars, structure of self and function of self.
但我们谈论的是这两个支柱之下最底层的一堆东西，自我结构和自我功能。
These cupboards that are extremely valuable for any and all of us to look in and explore and ask specific questions, because it's what resides within those cupboards that combine in a sort of recipe and then geyser up into whether or not and how much empowerment, humility, agency, gratitude, peace, contentment, delight, and generative drive we are able to exert and experience for ourselves in life.
这些橱柜对于我们所有人来说都非常有价值，值得我们去查看、探索和提出具体的问题，因为这些橱柜里的东西结合在一起形成了一种配方，然后激发我们在生活中是否能够发挥和体验到赋权、谦逊、代理、感恩、和平、满足、快乐和生成动力，以及有多少。
So imagine in your minds, if you will, and here I'm borrowing directly from a picture model that Dr. Conte provided before the filming of this series, which is an iceberg where below the surface of the water resides a bunch of stuff, and then a little bit is above the water.
所以，如果你愿意的话，请在你的脑海中想象一下，这里我直接借用孔特博士在拍摄这个系列之前提供的一个图片模型，这是一座冰山，水面以下有一堆东西，然后有一点在水面之上。
And maybe you'll help us revisit that model now for a few moments.
也许您现在会帮助我们重新审视一下这个模型。
But if you take nothing away at this moment, please understand that there's a lot of complex stuff going on underneath the surface of the brain and mind.
但如果你此刻什么都不带走，请明白，在大脑和心灵的表面之下，有很多复杂的事情正在发生。
But a key feature of this map is that while it is very, very complex underneath What emerges from that complexity gets simpler and simpler, especially as we move towards places of better health and more effectiveness in life.
但这张地图的一个关键特征是，虽然它的底层非常非常复杂，但从复杂性中浮现出来的东西却变得越来越简单，特别是当我们朝着更健康、生活更高效的地方迈进时。
So if you would, could you describe the map in a bit more detail, especially what's down there in these pillars, the complex stuff and the stuff that we should be looking at?
那么，如果您愿意的话，您能否更详细地描述一下这张地图，特别是这些支柱下面有什么，复杂的东西以及我们应该关注的东西？
And then we'll touch on some of those cupboards that we all have and the sorts of questions that we should all be asking in the context of some common challenges, but also some very common and very effective paths to doing and feeling better.
然后我们将讨论我们所有人都拥有的一些橱柜，以及我们在一些共同挑战的背景下应该提出的各种问题，以及一些非常常见且非常有效的方法来做得更好并感觉更好。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yes.
是的。
Now, the unconscious mind is the place to start because that's the deepest level of the structure of self.
现在，无意识思维是起点，因为那是自我结构的最深层次。
So imagine sitting on top of a biological supercomputer the size of a house.
想象一下坐在一台房子大小的生物超级计算机上。
That's what's going on inside of us.
这就是我们内心正在发生的事情。
The unconscious mind is that biological supercomputer, and if we're interested in ourselves, we become very curious about what is going on in it.
无意识思维就是一台生物超级计算机，如果我们对自己感兴趣，我们就会对其中发生的事情感到非常好奇。
And that's where even though it's not directly accessible to us, it can be accessible through other ways, such as we talked about reflection or therapy, and of course, there are other ways too.
这就是尽管我们不能直接接触到它，但可以通过其他方式来接触它，比如我们谈到反思或治疗，当然，还有其他方式。
But it is accessible to us, and we want to know what is in it, because what is in it has such a strong effect on what's going on in our conscious mind.
但我们可以接触到它，我们想知道其中的内容，因为其中的内容对我们意识中发生的事情有如此强烈的影响。
That's the person on top of the biological supercomputer the size of a house, or the image we've been using is the top of the iceberg that's coming out of the water.
那是在房子大小的生物超级计算机顶部的人，或者我们一直使用的图像是从水中浮出的冰山顶部。
So we can look at that either way, but what is in it has, of course, a huge effect on the part that we're aware of, our conscious mind.
所以我们可以用任何一种方式来看待这个问题，但是其中的内容当然对我们所意识到的部分，即我们的意识思维，有着巨大的影响。
And I think the best analogy here, and it's actually I think quite an analogy that parallels very well, is to an abscess in the field of physical medicine.
我认为这里最好的类比，实际上我认为这是一个非常相似的类比，就是物理医学领域的脓肿。
So an abscess is an area of walled-off infection.
因此，脓肿是一个封闭的感染区域。
So imagine that there's some infection, for example, it's often in the abdomen.
想象一下有一些感染，例如，通常发生在腹部。
There's some infection, and that infection could be really dangerous.
有一些感染，而且这种感染可能非常危险。
If that infection spread, boy, it could go to the blood.
如果感染扩散，孩子，它可能会进入血液。
The person could die from that.
这个人可能会因此而死亡。
So the body does a really good job of walling off that infection.
所以身体在隔离感染方面做得非常好。
And that's a good thing.
这是一件好事。
Because if the infection weren't walled off, it poses huge risk.
因为如果不隔离感染，就会带来巨大的风险。
But the walled-off infection does not represent a condition of health.
但隔离感染并不代表健康状况。
So someone who has an abscess in them and doesn't know it, this happens frequently in medicine.
因此，有人体内有脓肿却不自知，这种情况在医学上经常发生。
We see people coming to emergency rooms, and they have a low-grade fever, and they've had a low-grade fever for a while, and they just don't feel good, and they have low energy, and they're not sleeping well, and they find themselves sweating a lot.
我们看到有人来到急诊室，他们发低烧，而且已经发低烧一段时间了，他们只是感觉不舒服，精力不足，睡眠不好，发现自己出汗很多。
There are pervasive experiences going on that are really detracting from life, like not feeling great all the time, even though the person doesn't feel really sick.
有一些普遍存在的经历确实有损于生活，比如总是感觉不太好，即使这个人并没有真正感到生病。
That's sometimes why it takes a while for the person to come to medical attention.
这就是有时患者需要一段时间才能就医的原因。
So what's going on is better than not being walled off, but it is not synonymous with health.
因此，发生的事情比不被隔离要好，但这并不等于健康。
So what happens in physical medicine, abscess is identified, and then someone goes in, a surgeon goes in and drains it.
所以在物理医学中会发生什么，确定脓肿，然后有人进去，外科医生进去并引流。
And then the person is better.
然后这个人就更好了。
Now, think about that process.
现在，想想这个过程。
Surgery is not a fun thing.
手术并不是一件有趣的事情。
There's anesthesia, there's recovery.
有麻醉，有恢复。
But surgery is great when it cures the problem.
但当手术能解决问题时，它就很棒。
So it's not that, oh, the physician in the emergency room or the family practice doc identifies that there's an abscess, refer to the surgeon, everything is great and happy, and they're better.
所以并不是说，哦，急诊室的医生或家庭医生发现有脓肿，转诊给外科医生，一切都很好，很开心，而且他们好多了。
No, they have to go have a surgery, and that's not an easy thing.
不行，他们必须要做手术，这可不是一件容易的事。
But if they go and do that, on the other side, the infection actually is gone, so they do not have the symptoms that it was constantly spinning off inside of them, and they also don't have the risk that maybe that infection gets out of the abscess and their life is then at risk.
但如果他们这样做，另一方面，感染实际上已经消失了，所以他们不会出现感染在体内不断蔓延的症状，而且他们也不会面临感染从脓肿中逸出而他们的生命面临危险的风险。
So the parallel is looking into the unconscious mind to what is inside of us that may be acting like that abscess.
因此，相似之处在于研究我们内心的潜意识，了解可能像脓肿一样起作用的东西。
Even though this is an analogy, it is not theoretical.
尽管这是一个类比，但它并不是理论上的。
This happens all the time.
这种情况经常发生。
And the abscess inside that person emotionally may be the bullying that went on right around the time of puberty.
而那个人情感上的脓肿可能是青春期前后发生的欺凌行为。
It may be that awful boss who was just so mean and took that good job away from me.
可能是那个糟糕的老板太卑鄙了，夺走了我的好工作。
It might be that.
可能就是这样。
It might be that assault that I don't want to think about that's really still with me.
也许正是那次我不想去想的攻击仍然伴随着我。
It might be that death I still feel guilty about.
也许我仍然对死亡感到内疚。
I don't know what it is.
我不知道那是什么。
But if there's an abscess in there, we want to understand it and then fix it, cure it.
但如果那里有脓肿，我们想要了解它，然后修复它，治愈它。
And that's what the therapy process can do.
这就是治疗过程可以做到的。
And that's why at times the therapy is unpleasant.
这就是为什么有时治疗会令人不愉快。
The crying and the anger, that's the parallel of going through the surgery.
哭泣和愤怒，这与经历手术是相似的。
But on the other side, we've dissipated the energy inside of it.
但另一方面，我们却耗散了它内部的能量。
We've taken care of it.
我们已经处理好了。
And that's why it is so important to go into the unconscious mind if there are things that are really troubling us or if we don't know what's going on, to cast the net of inquiry that may lead us there, because trauma is so common, and we shove trauma underneath the surface because of the guilt and shame that it generates, and then it stays in us like an abscess and spins off symptoms.
这就是为什么如果有事情确实困扰着我们，或者如果我们不知道发生了什么，那么进入潜意识是如此重要，因为创伤是如此常见，我们因为它产生的内疚和羞耻而将创伤推到表面之下，然后它像脓肿一样留在我们体内并产生症状。
They could be symptoms of diffidence.
它们可能是缺乏自信的症状。
They could be symptoms of overusing a substance.
它们可能是过度使用某种物质的症状。
They could be symptoms of avoiding good things in our life.
它们可能是我们逃避生活中美好事物的症状。
But they're pervasive symptoms that are really harmful to us that we can understand and fix.
但它们是普遍存在的症状，对我们确实有害，但我们可以理解并解决。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In addition to quality therapy, what are some other ways to access the unconscious?
除了优质治疗之外，还有哪些其他方法可以进入无意识？
Earlier, we were talking about journaling and spelling out one's life narrative in written or in spoken form, either alone or with a trusted other.
早些时候，我们谈论的是写日记，以及以书面或口头形式，单独或与值得信赖的他人一起记录一个人的生活叙述。
Let's assume that somebody either can't afford or is just not at the place where they're willing to do therapy yet.
让我们假设有人要么无力承担，要么只是还没有达到他们愿意接受治疗的程度。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But they fully adopt this abscess model, or this abscess analogy that you described, which I think is an exceptional one because, A, you have the 20 plus years of clinical experience knowing this exists, but also, I think we all at some level kind of understand that there's stuff happening within us that we can't explain.
但他们完全采用了这种脓肿模型，或者你所描述的脓肿类比，我认为这是一个特殊的模型，因为，A，你有 20 多年的临床经验知道这种情况的存在，而且，我认为我们都在某种程度上理解我们体内发生了我们无法解释的事情。
And I, as a neuroscientist, can absolutely say that most of the neural machinery in your head and the parts of it that are in your body, we don't have access to it.
作为一名神经科学家，我绝对可以说，你大脑中的大部分神经机制以及你身体中的部分神经机制，我们都无法访问它。
We love to think that we do, but we don't.
我们喜欢认为我们这样做，但我们没有。
It's just clicking away under there.
它只是在下面点击一下。
So let's say somebody wants to make some progress, really improve their level of mental health, obtain more agency and gratitude, improve all aspects of their life and their generative drive.
假设有人想要取得一些进步，真正提高他们的心理健康水平，获得更多的能动性和感激之情，改善他们生活的各个方面和他们的生成动力。
What are some ways that they can start to tap into the unconscious?
他们可以通过哪些方式开始挖掘潜意识？
And my guess is if it's not in therapy, it's going to be by looking in some of these other cupboards as you're describing them.
我的猜测是，如果不是在治疗中，那就是通过查看你所描述的其他一些橱柜来实现。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
Yes.
是的。
Develop and embrace curiosity about yourself.
培养并拥抱对自己的好奇心。
And if you can, go for that curiosity being dispassionate.
如果可以的话，保持冷静的好奇心。
In the sense that you talk about these files you have with memories and events from your past, that's so good because you're exploring your life.
从某种意义上说，您谈论这些文件以及过去的记忆和事件，这很好，因为您正在探索自己的生活。
So someone who wants to understand themselves better, do that for yourself.
因此，想要更好地了解自己的人，就为自己做吧。
Go look at pictures, talk to people you knew at different stages of life.
去看照片，与你在人生不同阶段认识的人交谈。
Reflect upon how you behaved at different stages of life, what you felt inside.
反思你在人生不同阶段的行为方式以及你内心的感受。
Anchor yourself to memories and then extrapolate from there.
将自己锚定在记忆中，然后据此进行推断。
Become curious about yourself.
对自己感到好奇。
And if you can be dispassionate, this idea that sometimes gets called an observing ego.
如果你能保持冷静，这种想法有时被称为观察自我。
There are other words to put to it, but it's not ego in a negative sense.
还有其他的词可以形容它，但这不是消极意义上的自我。
Here it means the ability to stand outside of oneself and go, "Huh?" And to really think about oneself without the negative emotion, we're often able to either see the trauma, for example, or see the change.
在这里，它意味着能够站在自己之外并说“嗯？”为了真正在没有负面情绪的情况下思考自己，我们通常能够看到创伤，或者看到变化。
Like, "Oh, why did I go from feeling really good about myself and I felt like I could do anything, and then just a couple years later, man, look at me.
就像，“哦，为什么我从自我感觉良好，觉得自己可以做任何事情，然后仅仅几年后，伙计，看看我。
I'm mopey in the pictures." And then think, "Yeah, I was drinking more.
照片里的我很闷闷不乐。”然后想，“是的，我喝得更多了。
I stopped taking care of myself." That's a pretty big change, right?
我不再照顾自己了。”这是一个相当大的变化，对吧？
And so now we're calling attention.
所以现在我们要引起注意。
What's that change?
那是什么变化？
And a lot of times the person knew it like, "Oh, I got rejected.
很多时候，这个人都知道，“哦，我被拒绝了。
I had that terrible breakup." And they knew it was a terrible breakup, but they keep shoving it under the surface.
我经历了那场可怕的分手。”他们知道这是一次可怕的分手，但他们一直把它隐藏在表面之下。
Maybe they didn't know it was a terrible breakup.
也许他们不知道这是一次可怕的分手。
Maybe they can't figure out what it is.
也许他们无法弄清楚那是什么。
That's okay.
没关系。
Even if they recognize, look, there was a change, then that will put the lie to what in this example is likely going on.
即使他们认识到，看，发生了变化，那么这就会揭穿这个例子中可能发生的事情的谎言。
So that person likely frames themselves in a way that is very negative and always was true.
因此，这个人很可能以一种非常消极且始终真实的方式来塑造自己。
So, "I could never achieve anything.
所以，“我永远无法取得任何成就。
I never feel good.
我从来没有感觉良好。
No one likes me.
没有人喜欢我。
I can't find a partner." Whatever it is we say to ourselves, the person thinks it's always been that way because the negative emotion is so strong and that part of our brain doesn't care about the clock and the calendar.
我找不到合作伙伴。”无论我们对自己说什么，这个人都会认为事情一直都是这样，因为负面情绪是如此强烈，而我们大脑的那部分并不关心时钟和日历。
And then the person goes back and thinks it was not always that way.
然后这个人回想起来，认为事情并非总是如此。
And it comes to this a lot in therapy.
在治疗中经常涉及到这一点。
Doesn't have to be, as you said, in therapy.
正如你所说，不一定要接受治疗。
But no, I was a go-getter.
但不，我是一个积极进取的人。
I'm thinking of the person who said, "I was a go-getter, and I went out there and did things," which put the lie to her saying that she was lazy, incapable, all those things that were not true, but she accepted as truth.
我想到那个人说，“我是一个积极进取的人，我出去做了一些事情”，这对她来说是谎言，说她懒惰，无能，所有这些都不是真的，但她接受了真相。
So she needed, from that mathematical perspective, to go back and question the givens.
所以她需要从数学的角度回去质疑给定的事实。
From our perspective, we're saying go look in the unconscious mind.
从我们的角度来看，我们说去观察潜意识。
Go look in that part of the pillar of the structure of self.
去看看自我结构支柱的那部分。
Go look there.
去那里看看吧。
That's the deepest part, the most complicated part, but it doesn't mean we can't understand it.
这是最深的部分，最复杂的部分，但并不代表我们看不懂。
And if we start to gain understanding, then we can think more about the conscious mind.
如果我们开始获得理解，那么我们就可以更多地思考意识。
Like, "Wait a second.
就像，“等一下。
What am I thinking about?
我在想什么？
What do I think about that?
我对此有何看法？
Have I really thought about this, or is it just running over and over in my head?
我真的思考过这个问题吗，还是它只是在我的脑海里一遍又一遍地盘旋？
What would I like to do about it?
我想对此做什么？
Maybe I'd like to learn more.
也许我想了解更多。
Maybe I want to go get a book that I think could help me, listen to another podcast that could help me, talk to a friend.
也许我想去买一本我认为可以帮助我的书，听另一个可以帮助我的播客，与朋友交谈。
Maybe I want to do those things." So now the flow between the unconscious mind and the conscious mind becomes much more robust, and that lets us look further, to look at the next level up, the defense mechanisms that grow up out of the unconscious mind.
也许我想做那些事情。”所以现在无意识思维和有意识思维之间的流动变得更加强大，这让我们看得更远，看看下一个层次，从无意识思维中成长起来的防御机制。
And we can have some understanding of them, even though they're unconscious.
我们可以对它们有一些了解，即使它们是无意识的。
So the idea of when something shifted in me, how did my way of engaging with the world kind of change?
那么，当我内心发生某些变化时，我与世界接触的方式会发生怎样的变化呢？
I was perseverant and I would take some of that energy in me that wasn't so good and I could put it into exercising and taking care of myself.
我很坚持，我会吸收一些不太好的能量，我可以把它投入到锻炼和照顾自己中。
And then that sort of shifted and I became sarcastic and cynical and I started avoiding those of my friends who were really taking care of themselves and doing well because that made me feel worse about myself.
然后这种情况发生了转变，我变得讽刺和愤世嫉俗，我开始避开那些真正照顾自己并且做得很好的朋友，因为这让我对自己感觉更糟。
So that's a dialogue that is reflective of defense mechanisms.
所以这是反映防御机制的对话。
Now the person isn't going to necessarily say, "Oh, I used a lot of sublimation, which is good, and then I started using reaction formation and avoidance." Just as an example.
现在这个人不一定会说：“哦，我使用了很多升华，这很好，然后我开始使用反应形成和避免。”举个例子。
But they're going to understand that in whatever words they put to it.
但无论他们用什么语言表达，他们都会理解这一点。
They understand that there was a change.
他们明白发生了变化。
They put words to that.
他们对此发表了言论。
They can understand that process of change.
他们可以理解这个变化的过程。
It's not opaque.
它不是不透明的。
They're shining light on it.
他们正在照耀着它。
And now they can gain a better understanding of it and they can change it.
现在他们可以更好地理解它并且可以改变它。
Even that realization that I was much more functional, things were different.
即使意识到我的功能更加强大，情况还是有所不同。
That can be a treasure trove of very relevant, very important, and very positive information to bring to the current situation.
这可能是一个宝库，其中蕴藏着非常相关、非常重要和非常积极的信息，可以为当前局势带来帮助。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think we often romance the idea of the person who can just live life forward.
我想我们经常会幻想那些能够继续生活的人。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Who doesn't look back.
谁不回头。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Who just doesn't really explore their past, is just action-oriented, because after all, when we wake up in the morning, all we can control is our actions going forward.
谁只是不真正探索自己的过去，只是以行动为导向，因为毕竟，当我们早上醒来时，我们所能控制的就是我们前进的行动。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We can't rescript the actions of past-
我们无法重写过去的行为——
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
hours or others.
小时或其他。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
That is such a good point of what happens when we're just looking forward, right?
当我们向前看时，这就是一个很好的观点，对吧？
We become like a sprinter who comes out of the blocks too fast.
我们变得像一个冲出跑道太快的短跑运动员。
So if you think about the beginning of 100 meter dash, right?
那么，如果你想想 100 米短跑的开始，对吗？
They're the best sprinters in the world, say, and there they are in the blocks, and if they come out of those blocks in the right way, they will gain momentum, they will keep their form, and they will run as fast as they can.
比如说，他们是世界上最好的短跑运动员，他们就在街区里，如果他们以正确的方式走出这些街区，他们就会获得动力，他们会保持自己的状态，并且他们会跑得尽可能快。
But if they do not pay attention to what is behind them, the blocks that are supporting their body, the whole bigger picture here of the limitations within the body.
但如果他们不注意身后的东西，即支撑他们身体的块，就会看到身体内部局限性的整体情况。
They have to know what those limitations are.
他们必须知道这些限制是什么。
They have to understand themselves.
他们必须了解自己。
That's how they avoid coming out of the blocks so fast and then sprawling headlong onto the track.
这就是他们如何避免如此快速地冲出街区然后一头扎进轨道的原因。
And we see that happen, too.
我们也看到这种情况发生。
So if we're just looking forward and the thought and idea, that's how to live life, we will be tripping forward and ultimately we'll be like that sprinter.
因此，如果我们只是向前看，思考和想法，那就是如何生活，我们就会向前迈进，最终我们会像那个短跑运动员一样。
No matter how great a sprinter, if you come out of the blocks too fast, you're going to trip forward.
无论多么出色的短跑运动员，如果你冲出障碍区的速度太快，你就会向前绊倒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes, I know I said this in a different form a few minutes ago, but I think a lot of people are afraid of self-inquiry because they just don't want the thing that they discover, which resides in their unconscious, the abscess, if you will, or the damaging thought or thing that happened, which they are aware of but are pushing down to take over their daily life in a way that doesn't allow them to be at least as functional as they are in the moment.
是的，我知道我几分钟前以不同的形式说过这句话，但我认为很多人害怕自我探究，因为他们只是不想要他们发现的东西，这些东西存在于他们的无意识中，脓肿，如果你愿意的话，或者破坏性的想法或发生的事情，他们意识到这些，但正在以一种不允许他们至少像现在一样运作的方式压制他们的日常生活。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
If you go visit the person who had the abscess cured by the surgeon on post-op day one, that person will be less functional.
如果您在术后第一天去看望外科医生治愈了脓肿的人，那么那个人的功能就会下降。
They'll be in a hospital bed.
他们将躺在医院的病床上。
They won't be able to get up out of the bed.
他们将无法从床上起来。
They won't be able to exercise.
他们将无法锻炼。
They're not going to feel their best, right?
他们不会感觉最好，对吧？
That's okay.
没关系。
It is okay that we at times can become intermittently, say, less functional.
我们有时会间歇性地变得不那么机能，这没关系。
In the sense that we're more upset, that I'm spending more time crying.
从某种意义上说，我们更难过，我花更多的时间哭泣。
That's okay, because that's part of the energy, the effort, the choice that gets us to a better place.
没关系，因为这是让我们走向更好的地方的能量、努力和选择的一部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, so it's clear to me why exploring the unconscious mind can be and really is immensely valuable.
好吧，我很清楚为什么探索潜意识可以而且确实是非常有价值的。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm convinced.
我确信。
And I can't imagine anyone out there who would disagree with the idea that getting better mentally, being able to function better in the world as a consequence, is not a terrific use of one's time.
我无法想象有谁会不同意这样的观点：精神上的进步，从而能够在世界上更好地发挥作用，并不是对时间的充分利用。
Even if it at the surface seems to take us off course a bit in the moment or for even a few days.
即使从表面上看，它似乎让我们暂时偏离了轨道，甚至几天。
And I think it's also worth highlighting that it's not the case that if we do an exploration of the unconscious mind or look in any of these cupboards for that matter, that our entire day is going to be overtaken by it, or all of our sleep is going to disappear.
我认为还值得强调的是，如果我们对潜意识进行探索，或者在这些橱柜中查找任何一个相关问题，我们的一整天都不会被它占据，或者我们所有的睡眠都会消失。
We're not talking about a process in which everything is devoted to exploring these cupboards.
我们并不是在谈论一个将一切都致力于探索这些橱柜的过程。
There are instances, of course, where someone hits a crisis and they simply can't function.
当然，在某些情况下，有人遇到危机而他们根本无法正常工作。
But in that case, the thing they absolutely need to do is to look in these cupboards.
但在这种情况下，他们绝对需要做的就是查看这些橱柜。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What are some ways that we can explore this other cupboard under the pillar of structure of self, which is the cupboard of the conscious mind?
我们可以通过哪些方式来探索自我结构支柱下的另一个橱柜，也就是意识心智的橱柜？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
So we can also approach this through the curiosity of self, right?
所以我们也可以通过自我的好奇心来解决这个问题，对吗？
We do a lot of things automatically that we can stop and think about, like, "Why do I do that thing?" And it's amazing what that can provide.
我们会自动做很多事情，我们可以停下来思考，比如“我为什么要做那件事？”它能提供的东西是令人惊奇的。
So for example, I'm working with a person who has been going to work for a long time.
举例来说，我正在和一个已经工作很长时间的人一起工作。
Didn't need to go to work a long time ago.
很久以前就不需要去上班了。
And there's so many other things this person wants to do with their life.
这个人一生想做的事情还有很多。
They're curious about things.
他们对事物感到好奇。
They want to spend more time with older people in their family.
他们希望花更多的时间与家里的年长者在一起。
But they had to stop and think, "Why am I going to work?" Now, he's fortunate enough that he doesn't have to.
但他们不得不停下来思考：“我为什么要去工作？”现在，他很幸运，不必这么做。
He also earned.
他也赚了。
He's hard-working.
他很努力。
He's diligent.
他很勤奋。
He's fortunate.
他很幸运。
But he hadn't thought about it.
但他没有想过。
He's been going to work automatically for a long time, and it was the thinking about it that made him realize, "Wait, I do that automatically." Now, why?
他已经自动工作很长一段时间了，正是想到这一点才让他意识到，“等等，我会自动做这件事。”现在，为什么？
Because it's rooted in unconscious things, but that he's now bringing to the conscious mind.
因为它植根于无意识的事物，但他现在将其带入有意识的头脑。
Because I value hard work, and I value diligence.
因为我看重努力，我看重勤奋。
But him stop working doesn't mean that he's not innately hardworking or diligent, but he's showed that for years and years.
但他停止工作并不意味着他天生不勤奋或勤奋，但他多年来一直表现出这一点。
And he can show it in other ways, like by how he wants to be attentive to older people who need help.
他可以通过其他方式来表达这一点，比如他希望如何关注需要帮助的老年人。
There's a lot he can do, but he had to go back and look.
他能做的还有很多，但他必须回去看看。
And then, of course, there's a reason why he didn't realize it.
当然，他没有意识到这一点是有原因的。
And even though it's not even a bad reason, but clearly there was then an overvalue of hardworking, diligent, and he didn't realize, "Oh, I've done that.
尽管这甚至不是一个糟糕的理由，但显然当时人们对勤奋、勤奋的评价过高，而他没有意识到，“哦，我已经做到了。
I've done enough that I've convinced myself.
我已经做得足够多了，我已经说服了自己。
I know I'm hardworking.
我知道我很努力。
I know I'm diligent.
我知道我很勤奋。
It's okay.
没关系。
I don't have to serve that internal master anymore, and I can step away." And now his whole life has changed.
我不用再侍奉那个内师了，我可以走开。”现在他的整个生活都改变了。
But how'd the change come about?
但变化是如何发生的呢？
By asking what one might think is such a simple question to make no sense.
问一个人可能会怎么想，这是一个简单的问题，毫无意义。
Like, "Why do I go to work each day?
比如，“我为什么每天去上班？
Why have I been going?" He's off on the road to change.
我为什么一直去？”他已经踏上了改变的道路。
So it's one aspect of how we can explore the The conscious mind, it often leads us back to the unconscious mind, right?
所以这是我们探索意识的一方面，它经常引导我们回到无意识，对吧？
But it's awareness of our conscious choices.
但这是对我们有意识的选择的认识。
We can also then use tactics.
然后我们还可以使用战术。
So for example, cognitive behavioral tactics like thought redirection.
例如，认知行为策略，如思维重定向。
If I'm aware that, hey, there's a thought that comes into my mind a lot, and I start learning ways I can redirect away from it instead of thinking about it 100 times.
如果我意识到这一点，嘿，有一个想法经常出现在我的脑海中，我就会开始学习如何转移注意力，而不是反复思考它 100 次。
And if I learn how to do that, there's less of a negative emotion that comes from thinking about it and I can start to feel better.
如果我学会了如何做到这一点，思考它时产生的负面情绪就会减少，我就会开始感觉更好。
It's the basic premise of it.
这是它的基本前提。
But these are techniques that can really help us, and they involve understanding and guiding the conscious mind.
但这些技术确实可以帮助我们，它们涉及理解和引导意识思维。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm smiling because I'm recalling an experience I had.
我微笑是因为我回想起我的一次经历。
I have a female friend, a very impressive person really, has overcome a ton, is a recovered alcoholic for many years, and takes, at least by my read, great care of herself and the other people around her, and has a spectacular sense of humor and a bunch of other things.
我有一个女性朋友，一个非常令人印象深刻的人，已经克服了很多困难，多年来是一个康复的酗酒者，至少从我看来，她非常照顾自己和周围的其他人，并且具有惊人的幽默感和一堆其他东西。
But it was probably five, six years ago that we were in conversation about something, I don't recall what, and out of apparently nowhere, she said, "I hate being busy." And it just stopped me in my tracks because I'm somebody who keeps very busy.
但大概是五六年前，我们正在谈论某件事，我不记得是什么了，她显然不知从何而来，说：“我讨厌忙碌。”它让我停下了脚步，因为我是一个非常忙碌的人。
My schedule is extremely full with things that I really enjoy.
我的日程安排得非常满，充满了我真正喜欢的事情。
Some things I don't enjoy or enjoy less, but fortunately at this point in my life, mostly things that I enjoy.
有些事情我不喜欢或不太喜欢，但幸运的是，在我生命的这个阶段，大部分都是我喜欢的事情。
At the time, I was very busy with many things, including many things I didn't enjoy, and her statement just halted me, and I realized maybe I don't have to be busy.
当时我忙着很多事情，包括很多我不喜欢的事情，她的这句话让我停住了，我意识到也许我不必忙。
This whole notion of doing a bunch of things I don't want to do.
做一堆我不想做的事情的整个想法。
Sure, we have to make our way in the world and make a living and take care of ourselves and others, but I realized that there was a lot of extra stuff that I was doing.
当然，我们必须在世界上谋生、谋生、照顾自己和他人，但我意识到我还有很多额外的事情要做。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
Because I think what she meant and what you were reflecting on was, "I hate being automatically busy."
因为我认为她的意思和你所反思的是，“我讨厌自动忙碌。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
It's not good to be automatically busy, and then it makes you think about, "Wait, how am I busy in ways that are good for me, and how am I busy in ways that are not?
自动忙碌是不好的，然后它会让你思考，“等等，我如何以对我有利的方式忙碌，以及如何以对我不利的方式忙碌？
Am I just taking up time to avoid something?" You start really thinking about it.
我只是花时间去逃避什么吗？”你开始认真思考它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes, and the conversation stays with me to this day because up until then, I never really thought about the possibility that some or a lot of the things I was doing were truly a waste of my time.
是的，直到今天，这个话题仍然萦绕在我的心头，因为在那之前，我从未真正考虑过我所做的一些或很多事情是否真的是在浪费我的时间。
Mostly because I could be putting that energy into generative things.
主要是因为我可以将精力投入到创造性的事物中。
Generative drives, things that would bring me agency, gratitude, peace, contentment, delight.
生成动力，那些能给我带来动力、感恩、平静、满足、快乐的东西。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
These sorts of things.
诸如此类的事情。
What I'm giving as an example, I realize, is quite different than sitting down in a chair and asking oneself questions about oneself and one's schedule and what one's doing.
我意识到，我所举的例子与坐在椅子上问自己有关自己、自己的日程安排以及自己在做什么的问题有很大不同。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
It's the same endpoint.
这是同一个端点。
Same endpoint, right?
相同的端点，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Same endpoint, and I bring it up because I think it was the fact that it stopped me in my tracks, but also the fact that I can't seem to forget it.
同样的终点，我之所以提起它，是因为我认为这是它阻止了我前进的事实，也是我似乎无法忘记它的事实。
That means that it must have had significance, and I would say that has had significance.
这意味着它一定具有重要意义，我想说它具有重要意义。
Because I think most people are familiar with seeing these news articles that come out, woman or man, 104, reflects on what really mattered in life, and it's almost always the same things.
因为我认为大多数人都熟悉这些新闻文章，无论是女人还是男人，104，都会反思生活中真正重要的事情，而且几乎总是相同的事情。
It's close relationships.
这是密切的关系。
No one on their deathbed says, "I wish I spent more time at work." I might be one exception.
没有人在临终前说：“我希望我能花更多时间在工作上。”我可能是个例外。
I actually really enjoy my work, so whenever I see that one, I always think, no, my life without my life's work, it would've been a diminished life for me.
事实上，我真的很喜欢我的工作，所以每当我看到那个工作时，我总是想，不，如果我的生活没有我一生的工作，那对我来说将会是一种缩水的生活。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think there are others out there as well.
我认为还有其他人。
But I think it's very hard for us to place ourselves into the future of a person on our deathbed looking back and then make really good decisions now.
但我认为，我们很难将自己置于一个临终之人的未来中，回顾过去，然后现在做出真正正确的决定。
I think there are ways to do that, but it seems that it's far more powerful to just think about, what am I doing now?
我认为有很多方法可以做到这一点，但想想我现在在做什么似乎更有效？
And come to some realizations about what is really of value now and what is of less value or no value now, and then make adjustments now, as opposed to doing the deathbed exercise.
并认识到什么现在真正有价值，什么现在价值较小或没有价值，然后立即做出调整，而不是做临终练习。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
You have no other option if you're going to make change.
如果你要做出改变，你别无选择。
Think about what a complicated and ultimately meaningless exercise it is to try and project ahead into a future when one is on one's deathbed.
想想看，当一个人临终时试图预测未来，这是一项多么复杂且最终毫无意义的活动。
And it's like, what is that like?
就像，那是什么样的？
We can't imagine that, and we don't know who's there.
我们无法想象，也不知道谁在那里。
Whatever that situation may be for any of us, it's not going to be what we imagine.
无论我们中的任何一个人遇到什么情况，它都不会是我们想象的那样。
So then we just make something up, and we try and, what, extrapolate our lives in a way that gets us to this place where we're on our deathbed and we're not unhappy.
所以我们就编造一些东西，然后尝试以某种方式推断我们的生活，让我们到达临终时我们并不感到不快乐的地方。
Okay, it just brings us right back to the future.
好吧，它只是让我们回到了未来。
Because it's actually simple.
因为它其实很简单。
That is so complicated.
那太复杂了。
What are things going to be like on our deathbed?
我们临终时会发生什么？
What will happen between now and then?
从现在到那时会发生什么？
All things I don't know.
一切我都不知道。
So it's impossibly complicated.
所以这不可能复杂。
So then you take it back to the present.
那么你就把它带回到现在。
What is it I'm choosing?
我选择的是什么？
I am the I right now that is moving through time or is on the luge of life or whatever we want to say.
我就是现在的我，正在穿越时间，或者在生活中，或者无论我们想说什么。
So what am I choosing right now?
那么我现在选择什么？
That's how we make our lives better.
这就是我们如何让我们的生活更美好。
And we're aware, of course.
当然，我们知道。
I know there's a future.
我知道还有未来
I want to lead towards a better future.
我想带领大家走向更美好的未来。
I don't have a crystal ball.
我没有水晶球。
I can't envision what that's going to be, but I can do my best now to guide my life as best I can, and that's going to have to lead me to the best future, whatever all the variables are that I don't know yet.
我无法想象那会是什么样，但我现在可以尽我所能，尽我所能引导我的生活，这将引导我走向最好的未来，无论我还不知道所有的变量是什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The next cupboard under the pillar of structure of self is defense mechanisms.
自我结构支柱下的下一个柜子是防御机制。
I have several questions about defense mechanisms, but the first question is, can we be aware of our defense mechanisms, and is there value in that?
我有几个关于防御机制的问题，但第一个问题是，我们能否意识到我们的防御机制，它有什么价值吗？
And if so, which defense mechanisms are accessible to us?
如果是这样，我们可以利用哪些防御机制？
And I guess the third question would be, how does one go about exploring defense mechanisms?
我想第三个问题是，如何探索防御机制？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Well, it's sort of fantastical imagery that there's this iceberg.
嗯，这座冰山的存在有点奇幻。
Part is underwater, part is above water, and then from the part that's underwater come these sort of branches.
一部分在水下，一部分在水面上，然后从水下的部分长出这些树枝。
So the way I imagine it is there are branches of ice that can be clear and have light pass through them in a way that has high fidelity.
所以我想象的是，有一些冰的分支是透明的，并且光线以高保真度的方式穿过它们。
Or they can be sort of twisted and unclear, and they distort the light that passes through them.
或者它们可能有点扭曲和不清晰，并且会扭曲穿过它们的光线。
Now they rise up from the unconscious mind, meaning defenses are unconscious, they're automatic, but they're not outside of our ability to go looking for them.
现在它们从无意识的头脑中升起，这意味着防御是无意识的，它们是自动的，但它们并不超出我们寻找它们的能力。
They're in the unconscious mind.
他们在潜意识中。
So it's not that we can't understand them, it's that they're elusive and there has to be a process of inquiry, but we can learn about them just like we can learn about other things in the unconscious mind.
所以并不是我们无法理解它们，而是它们难以捉摸，必须有一个探究的过程，但我们可以了解它们，就像我们可以了解潜意识中的其他事物一样。
And here again Knowledge is power.
知识就是力量。
So I'm not going to learn anything new, or I'm unlikely to learn anything new about my defense mechanisms if I don't think about them.
所以我不会学到任何新东西，或者如果我不考虑我的防御机制，我就不太可能学到任何新东西。
But if I start to think about them, then I can start to learn things and to draw conclusions.
但如果我开始思考它们，那么我就可以开始学习并得出结论。
How am I behaving now as opposed to before?
与以前相比，我现在的行为如何？
Do I notice that?
我注意到了吗？
How I'm coping.
我如何应对。
We'll also then think coping, but coping is conscious, but we can access that.
然后我们也会考虑应对，但应对是有意识的，但我们可以访问它。
How am I coping?
我该如何应对？
What am I doing, and what does it mean?
我在做什么，这意味着什么？
So for example, someone who, after some difficult experience then starts avoiding can be doing that without an awareness of it.
例如，一个人在经历了一些困难的经历后开始逃避，可能会在没有意识到的情况下这样做。
Avoidance is a defense.
回避也是一种防御。
So avoidance of situations or people, or potential negative emotion.
因此，要回避某些情况或人，或潜在的负面情绪。
So self-reflection can help us understand which defense mechanisms we're using and what may have changed in us.
因此，自我反思可以帮助我们了解我们正在使用哪些防御机制以及我们身上可能发生了什么变化。
So an example, and an example we see all the time, is someone who, say, had as a primary defense mechanism, sublimation before some difficult event.
因此，我们经常看到的一个例子是，某人在某些困难事件之前将升华作为主要防御机制。
And sublimation is taking energy, taking, say, excess aggression, turning it into something positive.
升华就是吸收能量，比如说，吸收过度的攻击性，将其转化为积极的东西。
It's a good way of handling distress within us.
这是处理我们内心痛苦的好方法。
So it's healthy.
所以它是健康的。
And now, after some change in their life, they find that, say, they're drinking more, and they're relying more and more on alcohol.
现在，在生活发生一些变化之后，他们发现，比如说，他们喝得更多，而且越来越依赖酒精。
And you might say, "Well, they're soothing with alcohol." Yes, they're soothing with alcohol in one sense, but what else might that mean?
你可能会说，“嗯，它们是用酒精来舒缓的。”是的，从某种意义上说，他们用酒精来舒缓情绪，但这还意味着什么呢？
And oftentimes, what you'll see is maybe the person is using alcohol because they're mad at someone.
通常，你会看到这个人可能因为生某人的气而喝酒。
They're punishing someone.
他们正在惩罚某人。
That someone is probably them.
那个人可能就是他们。
They get to have the short-term soothing, but then to feel worse about themselves the next day.
他们得到了短暂的安慰，但第二天却对自己感觉更糟。
And the alcohol is, in part, a search for soothing, but it's in part an acting out against the self, which is a different kind of defense mechanism that is not healthy.
酒精一方面是为了寻求安慰，另一方面也是一种对抗自我的行为，这是一种不健康的另一种防御机制。
So the process of reflection or of inquiry can help us understand the branches that are coming up from the iceberg, from the unconscious mind.
因此，反思或探究的过程可以帮助我们理解从冰山、从无意识中伸出的树枝。
How are they in me?
他们在我心里怎么样？
Are they arranged in a way that's sort of elegant, and they're clear, and the light is passing through them, or are there things that have become sort of twisted?
它们的排列方式是优雅的、透明的、光线穿过它们，还是有些东西变得有点扭曲？
Okay, what exactly is that?
好吧，那到底是什么？
How do I go change that?
我该如何改变这一点？
I don't want that branch that is sort of opaque and that the light can't get through or is distorted.
我不希望那根树枝有点不透明，光线无法透过或扭曲。
And so I can go look at that because even though defense mechanisms are unconscious, if I'm working on myself, I can take away that, so to speak, diseased branch.
所以我可以去看看，因为即使防御机制是无意识的，如果我自己努力，我可以拿走那个，可以说，患病的分支。
Or that branch that's not healthy and put in its place something healthier.
或者用不健康的树枝代替更健康的树枝。
That's how we can change our defensive structure.
这就是我们改变防守结构的方法。
Those branches of our defense mechanisms, because even though they're unconscious, we can reflect on them, bring them to consciousness, and then bring ourselves to bear to make ourselves healthier.
我们防御机制的这些分支，因为即使它们是无意识的，我们也可以反思它们，将它们带入意识，然后让我们自己承受，使自己更健康。
And it can indeed get healthier, and as it gets healthier, it affects the next level around it, which is the person's character structure.
它确实可以变得更健康，当它变得更健康时，它会影响到它周围的下一个层次，也就是人的性格结构。
So remembering, we're using fantastical imagery.
所以请记住，我们正在使用奇幻的图像。
Because around the iceberg, below and above the water, and the branches that come out of the part of the iceberg under the water and how they array themselves, we're imagining that there's a nest that's encompassing all of that.
因为冰山周围，水下和水面上，以及从水下冰山部分伸出的树枝以及它们如何排列自己，我们想象有一个巢穴包含了所有这些。
The unconscious mind, the conscious mind, the defense mechanisms, and that nest is the character structure.
无意识思维、有意识思维、防御机制，而那个巢穴就是性格结构。
It's a way that we contain and define the self that rides on top of everything.
这是我们容纳和定义凌驾于一切之上的自我的一种方式。
It is into that nest that the self settles and from which the self grows.
自我正是在那个巢穴中定居并从中成长。
Because the character structure is more than just the conscious mind, it's sort of the conscious mind in action, the defense mechanisms in action, all the things that are going on underneath the surface and the unconscious mind in action.
因为角色结构不仅仅是意识思维，它是行动中的意识思维、行动中的防御机制、所有在表面之下发生的事情以及行动中的无意识思维。
And then that's how we be.
然后我们就是这样的。
You think be as an active word.
你认为be是一个主动词。
That's how we are, or that's how we actively be in the world, how we're engaging with the world.
这就是我们的本质，或者说我们就是这样积极地生活在这个世界上，我们是如何与世界互动的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So you describe the character structure as the nest that is up above the surface of the water, and that includes things like these unconscious defenses and all other aspects of what comes from below.
因此，你将角色结构描述为水面之上的巢穴，其中包括这些无意识的防御以及来自水下的所有其他方面。
Then you also said that the self, our selves reside in that nest.
那你也说我，我们自己就住在那个窝里。
And I don't recall the exact wording, but you said something to the extent of the self grows within that nest.
我不记得确切的措辞，但你说了一些关于自我在那个巢中成长的程度的事情。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And as you said that, I immediately had the image in mind of a nest that is either incredibly nurturing and can really foster the self in its best ways and can give rise to empowerment, humility, agency, gratitude, peace, contentment, delight, generative drive, all these wonderful things.
正如你所说，我脑海中立即浮现出一个巢穴的形象，它要么具有令人难以置信的滋养性，要么能够真正以最好的方式培养自我，并且能够产生赋权、谦逊、代理、感恩、和平、满足、喜悦、生成动力，所有这些美妙的东西。
I also imagined a nest that isn't as clean as it could be or that has some holes in it, or that isn't stable in the wind and these sorts of things.
我还想象了一个不太干净的巢穴，或者里面有一些洞，或者在风中不稳定等等。
Is that sort of imagery that's coming to mind for me, is that a decent way to conceptualize this?
我脑海中浮现出这样的画面吗？这是一种很好的概念化方式吗？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes, and I think it is a very important point.
是的，我认为这是非常重要的一点。
The self nests in the character structure.
自我嵌套在性格结构中。
And from nesting in the character structure, it grows.
并且通过嵌套在字符结构中，它会增长。
We are the self that grows from within that nest.
我们是从那个巢穴中成长起来的自我。
And that tells us a couple of things.
这告诉我们一些事情。
One, I am something now.
一，我现在是个东西了。
Right now, the things I've done, the things I've thought, the things that have happened to me, there's a self now.
现在，我所做的事、我所想的事、发生在我身上的事，现在都有一个自我了。
So one might think then what grows out of the nest is what I am now.
所以人们可能会想，从巢里长出来的就是现在的我。
Hence the concept of acceptance of self.
因此就有了接受自我的概念。
That's what I am now.
这就是我现在的样子。
But I am also responsible for tending What is growing.
但我也负责照料正在生长的东西。
I'm responsible for weeding it.
我负责除草。
I'm responsible for planting healthy seeds in it.
我负责在里面种下健康的种子。
And I think that captures the truth of the acceptance of ourselves.
我认为这抓住了接受我们自己的真相。
This is what I am now.
这就是我现在的样子。
This is who I am now.
这就是我现在的样子。
But isn't it beautiful that I can tend and nurture it?
但我能照顾和培育它，这不是很美好吗？
And we know, as you'd commented, what happens if you don't tend it?
我们知道，正如您所评论的，如果您不照顾它会发生什么？
There's a lot of weeds.
有很多杂草。
Things aren't going well.
事情进展不顺利。
Things start to get unstable.
事情开始变得不稳定。
That's not good, and we can go that way, too.
这不好，我们也可以走那条路。
That's where agency, gratitude, part of how it all cycles through.
这就是代理、感恩，是这一切循环的一部分。
Because our unconscious mind is still working.
因为我们的潜意识仍在运作。
It's all still happening.
这一切还在发生。
And that's how we tend that garden of the self, so to speak.
可以这么说，这就是我们照料自我花园的方式。
That's how we best tend it so that what grows up from it is a self that we recognize in the way that we want to recognize ourselves.
这就是我们最好的照顾它的方式，这样我们就能以我们想要认识自己的方式认识到从中成长起来的自我。
We see a self that we can feel proud of.
我们看到了一个让我们感到自豪的自我。
We see a self that we understand well enough to guide forward.
我们看到了一个我们足够了解的自我，可以引导我们前进。
We see a self for which we have enough respect and humility within us to understand that we don't understand everything, and it's from that self that we engage with the world.
我们看到一个自我，我们内心对它有足够的尊重和谦卑，明白我们并不了解一切，我们正是从那个自我开始与世界接触。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've heard many times before, in the circles of psychology and self-help and elsewhere, that we need to all learn to mother and father ourselves to some extent.
我以前在心理学、自助界和其他领域多次听说过，我们都需要在某种程度上学会为自己做父母。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm not a developmental psychologist, but my understanding is that the unconscious mind, the conscious mind, our defense mechanisms, the character structure, all the stuff that makes up the nest which the self resides and hopefully can grow, are, at least at some stage of life, perhaps all stages of life, determined by genetics and by how we were raised, nature and nurture.
我不是发展心理学家，但我的理解是，无意识思维、有意识思维、我们的防御机制、性格结构，所有构成自我居住并希望能够成长的巢穴的东西，至少在生命的某个阶段，也许是生命的所有阶段，都是由遗传和我们的成长方式、先天和后天决定的。
But this phrase, we have to learn to parent ourselves, it is thrown around a lot these days, certainly on social media, but elsewhere, too.
但是，“我们必须学会养育自己”这句话现在被广泛使用，当然是在社交媒体上，但在其他地方也一样。
And oftentimes that brings to mind stereotypes of mothering and fathering, and these stereotypes break down quite a bit these days.
这常常让人想起关于母亲和父亲的刻板印象，而这些刻板印象如今已经被打破了很多。
Things like, we have to be nurturing to ourselves, self-respect, self-love, self-protection.
比如，我们必须培养自己、自尊、自爱、自我保护。
Healthy self-protection, and these kinds of things.
健康的自我保护等等。
And all of that sounds fine and good, but it's always seemed rather vague to me.
所有这些听起来都很好，但对我来说总是显得相当模糊。
If I'm telling myself I'm okay, is that mothering and fathering myself?
如果我告诉自己我很好，这就是我自己的母亲和父亲吗？
I don't know.
我不知道。
It doesn't seem as concrete as perhaps I would like and others would like.
它似乎并不像我和其他人希望的那样具体。
Because it's not spelling out to specific actionables.
因为它没有阐明具体的可操作事项。
What you're describing here makes so much more sense to me, even though some of these concepts are a bit abstract.
尽管其中一些概念有点抽象，但您在这里所描述的内容对我来说更有意义。
Because the idea of this nest in which the self resides and emerges from character structure, one can immediately see why it's so valuable and it's such a key component of mental health and self-care to tend to that nest.
因为这个自我居住在这个巢穴中并从性格结构中出现的想法，人们可以立即明白为什么它如此有价值，并且照顾这个巢穴是心理健康和自我保健的一个关键组成部分。
And written into that is the fact that the nest is malleable, that we really can make changes.
事实证明，巢是可塑的，我们确实可以做出改变。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That we can create a better internal environment for ourself by going through these cupboards.
通过这些橱柜我们可以为自己创造一个更好的内部环境。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
You're pointing out another crucial factor here, which is, if I am the garden of self that grows up from all of it, and I am responsible for tending the garden, I'm also responsible for tending to the whole structure.
你在这里指出了另一个关键因素，那就是，如果我是从这一切中成长起来的自我花园，我负责照料花园，我也负责照料整个结构。
And that's so important.
这非常重要。
If I'm going to take care of myself in the ways that we've talked about, I'm going to tend not just to the garden that's growing out that I can see on the surface, but I'm going to attend to all of me, to the entire structure of self.
如果我要按照我们讨论过的方式照顾自己，我不仅会照顾我在表面上看到的正在生长的花园，而且还会照顾我自己，照顾整个自我结构。
An example here that I think can illustrate it pretty well is, so imagine a person who's doing well.
我认为可以很好地说明这一点的一个例子是，想象一个做得很好的人。
The part of the iceberg under the water is solid.
冰山在水下的部分是固体的。
The consciousness on top is solid.
上面的意识是坚实的。
The defense mechanisms are clear.
防御机制明确。
The nest is good.
巢穴不错。
The garden of self is flourishing.
自我的花园正在蓬勃发展。
And then there's a significant trauma to that person.
然后那个人就会受到严重的创伤。
There's a car accident.
出了车祸。
Someone is hurt.
有人受伤了。
There's a death of someone around them.
他们周围有人死了。
They have a serious illness.
他们得了重病。
They lose a job.
他们失去了工作。
It can even be they spent too much time contemplating and looking at news from murders around the world and all the awful things that we can spend too much time with.
甚至可能是他们花了太多时间思考和查看世界各地谋杀案的新闻，以及我们可以花太多时间处理的所有可怕的事情。
Something traumatic then goes into the unconscious mind.
然后一些创伤性的东西就会进入潜意识。
The trauma happens, and what often happens, not always, but what very often happens is the guilt and shame that are raised cause us to push the trauma underneath the surface.
创伤会发生，而且经常发生，但并不总是发生，但最常见的是，升起的内疚和羞耻感导致我们将创伤推到表面之下。
Now, that's in the unconscious mind, and it's impacting it, and that stability is threatened.
现在，这存在于潜意识中，它正在影响它，稳定受到威胁。
It's all riding on top of this giant part of the iceberg that's underneath the surface of the water.
这一切都位于水面下冰山巨大部分的顶部。
And okay, we don't have to worry too much about it if things are going well, but if it starts to get fragmented, it starts to shift, it threatens everything that rides on top of it, which is why taking care of ourselves means taking care of all elements of the structure of self.
好吧，如果事情进展顺利，我们不必太担心它，但如果它开始变得支离破碎，它就会开始转变，它会威胁到它之上的一切，这就是为什么照顾我们自己意味着照顾自我结构的所有元素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That all makes very clear why tending to the garden is so key and why we, as individuals, are really the people most fit to do this.
这一切都清楚地表明了为什么照料花园如此重要，以及为什么我们作为个人确实是最适合这样做的人。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of course, when one can, that work should be done with somebody who's a really terrific clinician-
当然，如果可以的话，这项工作应该由一位非常出色的临床医生来完成——
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
help guide that process.
帮助指导这一过程。
And where one can't work with a clinician, one would hope that they would take a structured approach to this, which is really what we're talking about here and in the other episodes.
当人们无法与临床医生合作时，人们会希望他们采取一种结构化的方法来解决这个问题，这正是我们在这里和其他剧集中讨论的内容。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And keeping in mind that tending to the self means tending to the whole structure of self.
请记住，关注自我意味着关注自我的整个结构。
If we keep that in mind, we won't go wrong.
如果我们牢记这一点，我们就不会出错。
We'll pay attention to the surface, but we'll pay attention to the things that are under the surface.
我们会关注表面，但我们会关注表面之下的事情。
We pay attention to the whole structure of self.
我们关注自我的整体结构。
We will shepherd ourselves forward as best we can.
我们将尽最大努力引导自己前进。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd love for you to tell us about the function of self, the second pillar that resides alongside structure of self and that serves to geyser up into how we show up in the world.
我很想让你告诉我们自我的功能，这是与自我结构并存的第二个支柱，它有助于我们如何在世界上出现。
Hopefully with empowerment, humility, agency, and gratitude, but sometimes no. And as we've established, there is always, always, always tremendous value to exploring these cupboards.
希望有授权、谦逊、能动性和感激之情，但有时却没有。正如我们所确定的，探索这些橱柜总是、总是、总是具有巨大的价值。
So how does one go about exploring the different cupboards under the function of self?
那么如何去探索自我功能下的不同柜子呢？
And we should probably start that conversation by saying what are the cupboards under the function of self?
我们或许应该先说自我功能下的柜子是什么？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
I'll start off by saying all the cupboards under the function of self will reference the structure of self, right?
首先我会说 self 函数下的所有橱柜都会引用 self 的结构，对吗？
Which makes sense.
这是有道理的。
There's a structure, and the function arises from the structure.
有一个结构，功能由结构产生。
It's good for us to have that in mind as we're thinking about the elements of the function of self.
当我们思考自我功能的要素时，记住这一点对我们有好处。
So the deepest element, let's say the bottom of the pillar, right, is self-awareness, right?
所以最深层的元素，比如说支柱的底部，对吧，是自我意识，对吗？
The sense of an I, right?
“我”的感觉，对吗？
On top of that, next up the pillar are defense mechanisms in action, right?
最重要的是，接下来的支柱是正在发挥作用的防御机制，对吧？
Up from that is salience, what we're paying attention to inside and out.
从这里开始就是显着性，即我们所关注的内部和外部。
The next level above that is behavior, and on top of that is our strivings.
再往上一层是行为，最重要的是我们的努力。
So if we go back to the bottom layer, the deepest, most complicated layer, it's the sense of self-awareness, the sense of an I.
所以如果我们回到最底层、最深、最复杂的一层，那就是自我意识的感觉，“我”的感觉。
And there are a lot of ways that we can foster self-awareness.
我们可以通过很多方法来培养自我意识。
So like the unconscious mind in the structure, we can't just go there and fully understand what the I is.
因此，就像结构中的无意识思维一样，我们不能直接去那里并完全理解“我”是什么。
But we can do things that can really, really help us.
但我们可以做一些真正能够帮助我们的事情。
So for me, thinking about what am I and how am I navigating the world and having in mind the structure of self.
所以对我来说，思考我是什么，我如何驾驭这个世界，并牢记自我的结构。
Like, wait, there's an unconscious mind working its way in me.
就像，等等，有一个无意识的头脑在我体内发挥作用。
There's my conscious mind.
那是我的意识。
Even being aware of the first pillar can be part of fostering the self-awareness of the second pillar.
即使意识到第一支柱也可以成为培养第二支柱自我意识的一部分。
Another way that can happen is self-reflection.
另一种可能发生的方式是自我反思。
For some people, it can happen in meditation, contemplation of the self, right?
对于某些人来说，它可以发生在冥想、自我沉思中，对吧？
There are many ways that we can help ourselves understand that living is an active process, that idea of the luge of time, and we're moving down it.
有很多方法可以帮助我们自己理解生活是一个积极的过程，时间的概念，我们正在沿着它移动。
It's an active process, and that is the I that I'm guiding through that process.
这是一个积极的过程，这就是我在这个过程中所引导的“我”。
We can foster self-awareness in a number of ways, but what we're trying to do here, the same as with the bottom of the structure of self pillar, the most complicated parts, there's a lot that's unconscious.
我们可以通过很多方式来培养自我意识，但是我们在这里尝试做的，就像自我支柱结构的底部一样，最复杂的部分，有很多是无意识的。
There's a lot that's unknown to us, so what we're trying to do is know some of it, right, and know more of it over time.
有很多东西是我们未知的，所以我们要做的就是了解其中的一些，对吧，随着时间的推移，我们会了解更多。
Bring some of those automatic or unconscious things to conscious awareness so that we can have a better understanding, because if we have an understanding, we can utilize that to make everything better.
将一些自动或无意识的事物带到有意识的意识中，以便我们可以更好地理解，因为如果我们有了理解，我们就可以利用它使一切变得更好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I can see right off how this first cupboard of self-awareness and an exploration of the I is so critical.
我立刻就能看出自我意识的第一个柜子和对“我”的探索是多么重要。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And realizing that we have a physical body, that we have agency in the world to do-
并意识到我们有一个物质身体，我们在世界上有代理权要做——
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
at least certain things.
至少某些事情。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And in an earlier episode, you mentioned a practice actually of looking in the mirror and focusing on this reality that we have a physical body, we reside in it, and then we have agency.
在之前的一集中，你提到了一种实际上是照镜子并关注这个现实的做法，即我们有一个物质身体，我们居住在其中，然后我们就有了代理权。
We can do things in the world as a way to reinforce self-awareness.
我们可以通过在世界上做一些事情来增强自我意识。
Such an interesting practice, and one that I started on immediately after.
这是一个非常有趣的练习，我之后就立即开始了。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Oh, really?
哦，真的吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, that evening, yeah.
嗯，那天晚上，是的。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the next morning, after hearing it from you, some interesting things came to mind, and I encourage people to try it.
第二天早上，在听到你的消息后，我想到了一些有趣的事情，我鼓励人们尝试一下。
It's done eyes open for just for a few minutes or so, two, three minutes in my case.
就我而言，睁眼几分钟左右，两三分钟就完成了。
Some interesting understanding came about, especially when coupled with thinking about some of my life narrative and things that have happened.
一些有趣的理解出现了，特别是当我思考一些我的生活故事和发生的事情时。
So I highly recommend people explore this practice you described.
因此，我强烈建议人们探索您所描述的这种做法。
I'm also interested in the sorts of narratives that we have about ourselves.
我也对我们对自己的各种叙述感兴趣。
I think everyone has narratives about what they're good at, what they're less good at, what's happened to them, why it's happened to them.
我认为每个人都有关于自己擅长什么、不擅长什么、发生在自己身上的事情以及为什么发生在自己身上的叙述。
Could you tell us what you think about exploring our narratives, right?
您能告诉我们您对探索我们的叙述有何看法吗？
Not just exploring the fact that we have a physical body, but exploring our stories about ourselves.
不仅探索我们拥有身体的事实，而且探索关于我们自己的故事。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Well, self-awareness is just the awareness of an I, right?
那么，自我意识就是对“我”的意识，对吧？
So we can use our conscious mind to help that, right?
所以我们可以用我们的意识来帮助实现这一点，对吗？
So this aspect of function of self isn't about what the narrative means, right?
所以自我功能的这个方面与叙事的含义无关，对吧？
That comes later.
那是稍后的事。
This is about the awareness of an I.
这是关于“我”的意识。
So when you were talking about the narrative, you said something along the lines of like there's stories and you're not thinking of like, "Oh, it's the same me in these stories." If you approach the narrative in a different way, the awareness like there's an I, right?
因此，当你谈论叙事时，你会说一些类似故事的内容，而你不会想，“哦，这些故事中的我是同一个。”如果你以不同的方式处理叙述，就会有一个“我”的意识，对吧？
There's a me.
有一个我。
Like I'm the point of all these stories, right?
就像我是所有这些故事的焦点，对吧？
That's why they're here.
这就是他们在这里的原因。
They're all in me in some way or another because I remember them, and they're important enough that I wrote them down.
它们以某种方式存在于我的内心，因为我记得它们，而且它们很重要，所以我把它们写下来。
If you look at it that way, where you're just apprehending an I like, "Huh, there's a me to whom all of this applies," that's how we can use the conscious mind and the narrative in order to foster self-awareness.
如果你这样看，你只是理解一个“我”，“嗯，有一个我，所有这一切都适用于”，这就是我们如何使用有意识的思维和叙述来培养自我意识。
It's not yet about meaning.
这还不是意义的问题。
It's about the awareness of an I.
这是关于“我”的意识。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, so it's actually much simpler than I'm making it out to be at some level.
哦，所以它实际上在某种程度上比我想象的要简单得多。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
At that level, yes.
在那个水平上，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Got it.
明白了。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Well then, at some point, we will return to this theme of narratives.
那么，在某个时候，我们将回到这个叙事主题。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Narratives that serve us, perhaps narratives that don't serve us.
为我们服务的叙事，也许不为我们服务的叙事。
Meanwhile, take us into that second bin under the function of self, the defense mechanisms in action.
同时，带我们进入自我功能下的第二个箱子，防御机制正在发挥作用。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I find these infinitely fascinating, and I think many other people do too, because sublimation, denial, these kinds of things, they Really provide so much of what does and doesn't happen to each of us.
我发现这些无限令人着迷，我想很多其他人也这么认为，因为升华、否认，这些事情，它们确实提供了很多我们每个人身上发生和没有发生的事情。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And yeah, so if you could tell us how we can think about our defense mechanisms in action in a way that can improve our health.
是的，所以如果你能告诉我们如何以可以改善我们健康的方式思考我们的防御机制。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And of course, defense mechanisms are under the structure of mind.
当然，防御机制是在心灵结构之下的。
Defense mechanisms in action are under function of mind, right?
行动中的防御机制是在心灵的作用下，对吗？
They're unconscious processes that we can gain sometimes a very good understanding of by directing our conscious mind towards them.
它们是无意识的过程，有时我们可以通过将我们的意识引导到它们来获得很好的理解。
And this is a place where we can use narratives.
这是我们可以使用叙事的地方。
We can use an understanding of self.
我们可以运用对自我的理解。
So as an example, someone who's thinking about themselves and what they want to do for a living, if they want their job or where they want to live and who's thinking about self can realize, you just kind of feel good when I'm doing something for someone.
举个例子，一个人如果考虑自己，考虑自己想做什么谋生，如果他们想要自己的工作或想要居住的地方，考虑自我的人会意识到，当我为某人做某事时，你会感觉很好。
And we hear this a lot, especially people who then direct themselves towards helping professions.
我们经常听到这样的说法，尤其是那些随后将自己转向帮助性职业的人。
Like, what did I like about that job?
比如，我喜欢那份工作的什么？
It wasn't that it had a great salary.
并不是说它的薪水很高。
It wasn't that the hours were good.
并不是说时间很好。
I like that it was really helpful to people or there were people that were underneath of me in the hierarchy that I could really nurture, right?
我喜欢它对人们真的有帮助，或者在等级制度中我可以真正培养一些在我下面的人，对吗？
And then I think, right, and I love putting food out for the birds and the squirrels.
然后我想，是的，我喜欢为鸟类和松鼠提供食物。
Like it can be a realization of self that guides us towards consciously apprehending and thinking about altruism as a defense mechanism.
就像它可以是自我的实现，引导我们有意识地理解和思考利他主义作为一种防御机制。
Because altruism is a defense, it's a healthy defense where if you can do something good, you do something good, make something good, that's the endpoint of it.
因为利他主义是一种防御，这是一种健康的防御，如果你能做一些好事，你就会做一些好事，做出一些好事，这就是它的终点。
Like you don't need that to translate into something else.
就像你不需要将其翻译成其他东西一样。
It's a defense mechanism.
这是一种防御机制。
It's a good one, and you can certainly see how it fits with the good things we're trying to build on top of it.
这是一件好事，你当然可以看到它如何与我们试图在其基础上构建的美好事物相契合。
And sometimes through that process of reflection, the person becomes aware of that.
有时，通过反思的过程，人们会意识到这一点。
They haven't chosen jobs by the obvious things that even they thought they chose jobs by.
他们并没有根据那些显而易见的事情来选择工作，即使他们认为自己是根据这些事情来选择工作的。
Where is the job?
工作在哪里？
What does it pay?
它支付什么费用？
It wasn't that, that what they really valued and what they then started choosing upon might have been something that they weren't aware of until they think about it, and that leads them to the defense mechanism.
并不是说，他们真正看重的东西以及他们随后开始选择的东西可能是他们在思考之前才意识到的东西，这导致他们进入防御机制。
The same way another example could be rationalization, right?
同样，另一个例子可以是合理化，对吗？
Someone who thinks about their life and they think, I always tell myself something is better than it is, right?
有人思考自己的生活时会想，我总是告诉自己有些事情比实际情况更好，对吗？
And then ultimately, like I'm disappointing myself.
最终，我让自己失望了。
Like I tell myself, like, "You're doing really well at work," and I'm not really working hard enough, and then when I have that review, I feel lousy.
就像我告诉自己的那样，“你工作做得非常好”，但我工作不够努力，然后当我得到这样的评价时，我感觉很糟糕。
And that last person who broke up with me and said, "You just weren't being a reliable partner," or, that person was right.
最后一个和我分手的人说，“你只是不是一个可靠的合作伙伴，”或者，那个人是对的。
And that can lead to, oh, like what's going on?
这可能会导致，哦，就像发生了什么？
I always think things are going pretty well when they're not, and that's guiding us towards rationalization as a defense mechanism.
我总是认为事情进展顺利，但实际情况并非如此，这引导我们将合理化作为一种防御机制。
And again, a person doesn't have to say, "Ah, I conclude I am using rationalization as a defense mechanism," but there can be words put to that as seeing a pattern in the self.
再说一次，一个人不必说，“啊，我得出结论，我正在使用合理化作为一种防御机制”，但可以用“看到自我模式”来形容这一点。
When this is done as part of therapeutic inquiry, we're often looking to identify the defense mechanisms, and that can be great too, but it's not always needed, right?
当这作为治疗探究的一部分完成时，我们经常希望确定防御机制，这也很好，但并不总是需要，对吗？
Defense mechanisms result in patterns.
防御机制产生模式。
So if a person just sees the pattern, that can be enough to recognize the pattern and either say follow the pattern of altruism as a defense mechanism or how do we work against, how do I work against the pattern of rationalization as a defense mechanism?
因此，如果一个人只是看到了这种模式，就足以认识到这种模式，并且要么说遵循利他主义模式作为防御机制，要么我们如何对抗，我如何对抗理性化模式作为防御机制？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Can we conclude that patterns that we don't like are the reflection of unhealthy defense mechanisms and that patterns that we like are the consequence of healthy defense mechanisms?
我们是否可以得出这样的结论：我们不喜欢的模式是不健康防御机制的反映，而我们喜欢的模式是健康防御机制的结果？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Usually, yes.
通常，是的。
It's worth some thought and some reflection and putting together like what exactly are the pieces of that, but basically the answer to that is yes.
值得一些思考和反思，并将其具体组成部分放在一起，但基本上答案是肯定的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In an earlier episode, you mentioned one defense mechanism in action that is often observed in people is acting out.
在之前的一集中，您提到了人们经常观察到的一种正在发挥作用的防御机制正在发挥作用。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This immediately sounds like an unhealthy defense mechanism.
这听起来像是一种不健康的防御机制。
So to keep with this concept of the patterns are often more observable than are the underlying defense mechanisms, would it be the case, for instance, that if somebody has a repeated set of failures, like that's a pattern, or is repeatedly in friction in a particular relationship in their life, like maybe even just with one person.
因此，为了保持这种模式的概念，模式通常比潜在的防御机制更容易观察到，例如，如果某人重复出现一系列失败，就像这是一种模式，或者在生活中的特定关系中反复出现摩擦，甚至可能只是与一个人。
Like all other relationships are going great, but then they're in a lot of friction with this one other person.
就像所有其他关系一样，进展顺利，但随后他们与另一个人发生了很多摩擦。
So there's a pattern.
所以有一个模式。
From that pattern, they could explore what?
从这个模式中，他们可以探索什么？
Is it important that they get to a verbal identification of the defense mechanism?
他们对防御机制进行口头识别重要吗？
Or what sorts of steps would one take going from a recognition of the pattern to understanding of the defense mechanism, perhaps in a way that moves them forward?
或者从对模式的认识到对防御机制的理解，人们会采取什么样的步骤，也许以一种推动他们前进的方式？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
The understanding of the defense mechanism can be very helpful, but isn't always needed, right?
了解防御机制可能非常有帮助，但并不总是需要，对吗？
If you can recognize a maladaptive pattern like, oh, this is happening a lot and it's not good for me, you become able to change that pattern, right?
如果你能认识到一种适应不良的模式，比如，哦，这种情况经常发生，而且这对我不利，你就能够改变这种模式，对吗？
So understanding the defense can be helpful.
因此，了解防守可能会有所帮助。
Again, the more understanding the better, but it's not always necessary.
再次强调，了解得越多越好，但这并不总是必要的。
Here, I think to understand the defense mechanism, we should first define acting out because we think of acting out, just hearing the words, as something that's volitionally done, right?
在这里，我认为要理解防御机制，我们应该首先定义“付诸行动”，因为我们认为“付诸行动”，只是听到这些话，是自愿做的事情，对吗？
But that's not what we're talking about.
但这不是我们要讨论的。
Defense mechanisms are unconscious.
防御机制是无意识的。
So there's an automaticity to the response that the person can see by reflection because this isn't conscious choice to act out.
因此，人们可以通过反思看到反应的自动性，因为这不是有意识的选择。
That's something different.
那是不同的东西。
That's bad behavior, right?
这是不好的行为，对吧？
But what we're talking about here is the thing that's automatic and unconscious until we bring it into our conscious mind.
但我们在这里谈论的是自动和无意识的事情，直到我们将其带入我们的意识中。
And acting out isn't always dramatic either.
而且表现也不总是戏剧性的。
So here's one example.
这是一个例子。
So Let's say in a relationship situation, you have one person who always does the dishes.
假设在一段关系中，有一个人总是洗碗。
The other person does something different.
另一个人做了不同的事情。
That person does the dishes.
那个人洗碗。
And it's onerous.
而且很繁重。
People have busy lives.
人们的生活很忙碌。
It's onerous to have to do a lot of dishes.
要做很多菜很麻烦。
And every time things aren't going so well, there's a little bit of conflict between them, the other person makes twice as many dirty dishes.
And every time things aren't going so well, there's a little bit of conflict between them, the other person makes twice as many dirty dishes.
This is exactly the kind of thing that happens in relationship situations where this little thing becomes a little crack in the door that opens more, and then there's a foot in the door.
这正是在人际关系中发生的事情，一件小事变成了门上的一条小裂缝，打开更多，然后一只脚踩在了门上。
Now there's a big problem because we act out in these ways that we're not aware of.
Now there's a big problem because we act out in these ways that we're not aware of.
So again, the person isn't deciding, "I'm going to do that so that that person has to do more work," but there's an automaticity to it, and upon reflection, sometimes a person could realize, "I'm doing that." Or this is a real example, a person who realizes, "I just make much more difficulties around the house.
因此，这个人并没有决定，“我要这样做，以便那个人必须做更多的工作”，但它有一种自动性，经过反思，有时一个人可能会意识到，“我正在这样做。” Or this is a real example, a person who realizes, "I just make much more difficulties around the house.
I make a lot more difficulties for my partner." And was like, "Whoa.
我给我的伴侣制造了更多的困难。”就像，“哇。
This person doesn't want to be doing that." They love that person.
这个人不想这样做。”他们爱那个人。
They don't want to be doing that.
他们不想那样做。
But by realizing that, one, they can bring a process of change through just being more self-aware and saying, "Look, I don't want to do that.
但通过认识到这一点，他们可以通过更加自我意识并说：“听着，我不想那样做，从而带来一个改变的过程。
I don't want that to be a defense anymore.
我不想再用它来辩护了。
If I have conscious awareness, now I can control it." And maybe that person is doing that other places.
If I have conscious awareness, now I can control it." And maybe that person is doing that other places.
Maybe the person says, "It kind of goes that way at work, too.
Maybe the person says, "It kind of goes that way at work, too.
I could contribute to a project and make something easier on a person, and I realize I don't do that." If I'm feeling it some negative way, then we can go, fine, okay, what might the roots of that be?
I could contribute to a project and make something easier on a person, and I realize I don't do that." If I'm feeling it some negative way, then we can go, fine, okay, what might the roots of that be?
For example, did a parent role model that behavior?
For example, did a parent role model that behavior?
Was that done to them, where the parent was really good to them if they were behaving in the right way, and they make their breakfast.
如果他们行为正确，父母就会对他们很好，并且他们会做早餐。
And if not, well, you make it yourself, or, oh, sorry, there's no milk.
如果没有，那么，你自己做，或者，哦，抱歉，没有牛奶。
These things happen, and then the person gets in them some array of circumstances, feelings, responses, all the stuff that goes on in the unconscious mind that then throws up to the surface this kind of acting out as a defense mechanism.
这些事情发生了，然后这个人就会陷入一系列的环境、感觉、反应，所有在潜意识中发生的事情，然后将这种作为一种防御机制的行为抛到表面。
So I think it's important to point out, and it's a good example because it is unconscious, and a lot of times, how we're doing it is not dramatic.
所以我认为指出这一点很重要，这是一个很好的例子，因为它是无意识的，而且很多时候，我们的做法并不引人注目。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What about salience?
显着性又如何呢？
This cupboard under the function of self that I think we are all all too familiar with.
这个柜子的自我功能我想大家都再熟悉不过了。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What we pay attention to internally and externally.
What we pay attention to internally and externally.
I have a sort of bizarre meditative practice that I've talked about before on the podcast.
I have a sort of bizarre meditative practice that I've talked about before on the podcast.
I don't know why I came up with this, but it's more of a perceptual exercise that I do from time to time, where if I feel like I'm too in my head, I literally focus my visual attention outward.
我不知道为什么我想出这个，但这更多的是我时不时做的一种感知练习，如果我觉得自己太在意了，我就会把视觉注意力集中到外面。
I try and place it on a horizon or some object out there.
I try and place it on a horizon or some object out there.
And other times, if I'm sort of in the world too much and I want to get back into myself, I'll close my eyes and do a moment or two or more of more traditional, what traditional mean, what people think of as meditation.
而其他时候，如果我太沉迷于这个世界，而我想回归自我，我会闭上眼睛，做一两分钟或更多的传统冥想，传统的意思，人们认为的冥想。
The practice involves setting aside a minute or two and deliberately stepping through closed-eye meditation.
The practice involves setting aside a minute or two and deliberately stepping through closed-eye meditation.
It's not really meditation.
这并不是真正的冥想。
Again, it's just recognizing I'm a self here contained within the skin of my body.
再说一遍，这只是认识到我是一个包含在我身体皮肤内的自我。
Then I open my eyes, I look at my hand.
然后我睁开眼睛，看着我的手。
This all sounds very silly as I describe it.
正如我所描述的，这一切听起来都很愚蠢。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
It is not, no.
不是，不是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then I think about a bridge, like my perception can be split between my awareness of self internally and my hand.
And then I think about a bridge, like my perception can be split between my awareness of self internally and my hand.
Then I look out some distance, 10, 12 feet or so, and do the same.
然后我向外看一段距离，10、12 英尺左右，然后做同样的事情。
I sort of bridge self-awareness with external awareness, and I step out to the horizon, and then I sometimes like to do the exercise of, it goes with a popular meme, this we're just this pale blue dot.
我在某种程度上将自我意识与外部意识联系起来，然后我走向地平线，然后我有时喜欢做这样的练习，它与一个流行的模因相一致，我们只是这个淡蓝色的点。
I think about myself right here, but then the fact that I'm on a planet that's spinning in space.
我在这里想到了我自己，但事实上我是在一个在太空中旋转的星球上。
And then right back into myself, and then I go about my day.
然后回到我自己，然后我就开始我的一天。
And I developed that a few years ago more on the basis of what I know about visual perception and interoception, our recognition of inside versus exteroception, just fancy language for recognition and perception of what's outside.
几年前，我更多地基于我对视觉感知和内感受的了解，我们对内部与外感受的识别，只是对外部事物的识别和感知的奇特语言。
But that's my practice of orienting myself in life, because then I feel like I have better buffers against what happens around me and how much I'm reacting or not reacting.
但这是我在生活中定位自己的做法，因为这样我觉得我对周围发生的事情以及我的反应或不反应有更好的缓冲。
That's my practice.
这就是我的做法。
I have a feeling it touches into a few of these bins.
I have a feeling it touches into a few of these bins.
But it certainly doesn't get at approaching a specific problem or thinking about where problems might exist beneath the surface that I'm not aware of.
但它肯定无法解决某个特定问题，也无法思考我不知道的表面之下可能存在的问题。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Because it's only one part of the equation.
因为它只是等式的一部分。
It's paying attention to salience.
它注重显着性。
See, what you're doing then, you are grounding yourself in order to change salience.
看，你现在所做的就是让自己扎根以改变显着性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
And that is a strategy.
这是一个策略。
You said, "Oh, maybe it's silly or this or that." No, it's an understood and known strategy.
You said, "Oh, maybe it's silly or this or that."不，这是一种众所周知的策略。
For example, variations of that are what people can do to prevent panic attacks.
例如，人们可以采取不同的措施来预防恐慌发作。
To change the salience.
改变显着性。
If the salience is I'm going inside of me and I'm feeling panicked, and I just have a feeling of awfulness, you can change that salience by grounding yourself to the world around you.
如果显着的是我正在进入我的内心，我感到恐慌，我只是有一种可怕的感觉，那么你可以通过让自己扎根于周围的世界来改变这种显着性。
We tell people, "Place your hands on the table.
我们告诉人们，“把手放在桌子上。
Look at the specifics of exactly what time it is.
看看现在具体是什么时间。
Look at the shape of a doorknob." Ground yourself so that you can change salience.
看看门把手的形状。”让自己接地气，这样你才能改变显着性。
Because now, as we move up the hierarchy of function of self, we're getting to using the conscious mind.
因为现在，当我们提升自我功能的层次时，我们就开始使用意识思维。
Things that are salient to us can be external, they can be internal, and if they're internal, they can be conscious, and sometimes they're unconscious.
对我们来说重要的事物可以是外部的，也可以是内部的，如果它们是内部的，它们可以是有意识的，有时它们是无意识的。
So it's not all about the conscious mind, but we're bringing the conscious mind to bear here to think about salience, which, combined with everything else, can help us see what's under the surface.
因此，这并不全都与意识有关，但我们将意识带到这里来思考显着性，它与其他一切相结合，可以帮助我们看到表面之下的东西。
Most of the time, what we're doing is that act of self-observation.
大多数时候，我们所做的就是自我观察的行为。
What is going on inside of me?
我内心发生了什么？
Which can be, what am I thinking?
哪个可以，我在想什么？
This is how the person can realize over and over, "Oh my goodness, I'm saying to myself X, and for the first time, they say out loud and realize the thing they've said to themselves 10,000 times.
这就是人们如何一遍又一遍地意识到，“哦，天哪，我对自己说X，这是他们第一次大声说出来，并意识到他们已经对自己说过一万遍了。
Or it can be a feeling state.
或者它可以是一种感觉状态。
Wow, what's salient to me is a feeling state, say, of vulnerability, and then everything seems threatening.
哇，对我来说最重要的是一种感觉状态，比如说，脆弱，然后一切似乎都充满威胁。
So salience, it's a form of self-awareness that we could say is using the conscious mind now to tend to that garden of self.
如此显着，这是一种自我意识的形式，我们可以说现在正在使用有意识的思维来照料自我的花园。
To look at that garden of self and say, "What's really growing from it?
看着那个自我花园并说：“它到底长出了什么？
Is it all things I like?" It's going to be never all things we like because it's a process.
这是我喜欢的一切吗？”这永远不会是我们喜欢的一切，因为这是一个过程。
But am I happy with it?
但我对此感到满意吗？
Am I not happy with it?
我对此不满意吗？
Are there weeds that are coming up all over the place?
是不是到处都长出了杂草？
That could be the intrusive thoughts.
这可能是侵入性想法。
So we're using metaphors, but it's actually very concrete.
所以我们使用了隐喻，但它实际上非常具体。
The salience part is what is going on inside of me, and that's a very interesting inquiry and informative.
最重要的部分是我内心正在发生的事情，这是一个非常有趣的探究并且信息丰富。
It's interesting because it's informative.
这很有趣，因为它内容丰富。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you think that's an inquiry that's best done in meditative-like states or setting aside some deliberate time to think about what am I thinking about, what am I paying attention to, how am I allocating my thoughts?
你认为这种询问最好在类似冥想的状态下进行，还是留出一些刻意的时间来思考我在想什么、我在注意什么、我如何分配我的想法？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or my thoughts being allocated.
或者说我的思绪被分配了。
I guess we have to respect the unconscious component here.
我想我们必须尊重这里的无意识成分。
We don't just walk around saying, "I'm going to place my attentional spotlight there and then my thinking here."
我们不会只是四处走动说：“我要把我的注意力集中在那里，然后把我的想法放在这里。”
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
We always want to be aware of there are things we don't know.
我们总是希望了解一些我们不知道的事情。
That's respectful.
这就是尊重。
That's appropriate humility because it's true.
这是适当的谦虚，因为这是事实。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I'm assuming this ratchets directly into the cupboard of behavior.
所以我假设这会直接影响到行为的柜子。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What we're actually doing.
我们实际上在做什么。
Is that cupboard best explored by listing off, perhaps on paper, in our minds, what we're doing each day?
探索这个橱柜的最佳方式是在我们的脑海中列出（也许是在纸上）我们每天所做的事情吗？
Is that one way to explore, like how am I spending my time?
这是一种探索的方式吗，比如我如何度过我的时间？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Again, not as an efficiency exercise, but as a way to start to explore the self and the mind for sake of building up to more agency and gratitude.
再说一次，这不是一种效率练习，而是一种开始探索自我和思想的方式，以建立更多的能动性和感恩之心。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
The routes to most effective self-inquiry, to bringing the conscious mind to bear really differ widely by person.
最有效的自我探究、让意识发挥作用的途径确实因人而异。
There are some people who they are so well-served by doing that when they're meditating.
有些人在冥想时这样做会得到很好的服务。
There are other people who they can really get at that when they're playing a sport.
还有其他人在参加一项运动时可以真正理解这一点。
It's going on inside of them, along with the other things that they're doing.
它和他们正在做的其他事情一起在他们的内心进行着。
Some people find it in the shower, or they find it when they wake up in the morning, or they find it when they're with an animal they love.
有些人在淋浴时发现它，或者在早上醒来时发现它，或者当他们与他们喜爱的动物在一起时发现它。
Or they might find it when they're reading a certain kind of material, and then they read it, and then the reading trails off, and they're thinking.
或者他们可能在阅读某种材料时发现它，然后他们读它，然后阅读逐渐减弱，他们开始思考。
They're a reverie inside.
他们内心充满遐想。
So how we can engender the best use of our conscious minds is going to differ by person.
因此，我们如何才能最好地利用我们的意识思维因人而异。
But again, we can think about that, like what really works for me, let me do more of that.
但同样，我们可以考虑一下，就像真正对我有用的事情一样，让我做更多的事情。
It's interesting, we see people sometimes, I see people a lot of the time who are trying to meditate to understand themselves, and it's not working.
有趣的是，我们有时会看到人们，很多时候我看到人们试图通过冥想来了解自己，但这是行不通的。
And it's like, I must know how to meditate in order to understand myself.
就像，我必须知道如何冥想才能了解自己。
Well, it's not necessarily true.
嗯，这不一定是真的。
It might be, I must go on more hikes in order to better understand myself, because that's how it works for me.
也许，我必须进行更多的徒步旅行才能更好地了解自己，因为这对我来说就是这样。
So that process of reflection can be very helpful to us because we're using our conscious mind to try and either look inward, what is salient to me, including understanding that I don't understand everything, but I can understand a lot of it, and outward, what behaviors am I engaging in?
因此，反思的过程对我们非常有帮助，因为我们正在使用我们的意识思维来尝试向内看，什么对我来说是最重要的，包括理解我不理解一切，但我可以理解很多，向外看，我正在从事什么行为？
What are my behavior patterns?
我的行为模式是什么？
And to be reflective about that, to think about that can be immensely helpful to us.
反思这一点，思考这一点对我们非常有帮助。
How am I spending those hours of the day?
我如何度过一天中的这几个小时？
What am I doing with my time?
我在做什么？
Am I wasting my time?
我是在浪费时间吗？
Do I always get mad and say something mean to somebody?
我是否总是生气并对某人说一些刻薄的话？
Why?
为什么？
Because I had a negative thought about something.
因为我对某件事有消极的想法。
Am I doing that?
我正在这样做吗？
Now, have I changed since something unpleasant happened, and now I'm not so nice to someone in the household?
现在，自从发生了一些不愉快的事情后，我是否发生了变化，现在我对家里的某个人不再那么友善了？
Or am I taking a lot better care of myself?
还是我对自己照顾得更好了？
Since I started doing X, whatever X may be, learning more about myself.
自从我开始做X，无论X是什么，我都更多地了解自己。
Doing more of the things I like.
多做一些我喜欢的事情。
Left that old job, it was so hard for me to leave.
离开那份旧工作，我很难离开。
I do actually get myself to the gym.
我确实去健身房了。
So it's a reflection upon self because a lot of what we do, we do automatically.
所以这是对自我的反思，因为我们所做的很多事情都是自动做的。
And that's very important.
这非常重要。
The example that often is given is, okay, think about how you last brushed your teeth.
经常给出的例子是，好吧，想想你上次刷牙的方式。
And the answer might be a blank.
答案可能是一片空白。
Because you brush your teeth in an automatic way.
因为你以自动方式刷牙。
Most of us don't remember that because we just skip right over it.
我们大多数人都不记得这一点，因为我们只是跳过它。
So it makes sense.
所以这是有道理的。
It lets us think while we're doing things.
它让我们在做事时思考。
It lets a lot happen automatically in the physical world.
它让物理世界中的很多事情自动发生。
Just as it happens inside of us automatically.
就像它自动发生在我们体内一样。
But we can have too much of a good thing where too much is happening automatically, and we want to stop and think.
但是，当太多的事情自动发生时，我们可能会拥有太多的好事，而我们想要停下来思考。
And it's remarkable how sometimes when people stop and think, they might say, a real example is, "I don't want to be spending five nights a week at the bar, and I'm spending five nights a week at the bar.
值得注意的是，有时当人们停下来思考时，他们可能会说，一个真实的例子是，“我不想每周在酒吧度过五个晚上，但我每周在酒吧度过五个晚上。
Why?
为什么？
Because I go home a certain way from work, and there's a bar along that way, and then I think, oh, I'll just stop in and maybe see a friend.
因为我下班回家要走一条路，沿途有一家酒吧，然后我想，哦，我就进去看看，也许会见个朋友。
And then I know that once I get in there, I'm going to have a drink, and I know once I have a drink, I'm going to get three.
然后我知道一旦我进去了，我就会喝一杯，而且我知道一旦我喝了一杯，我就会喝三杯。
And I see this pattern of behaviors and how I don't decide.
我看到了这种行为模式以及我如何不做决定。
I'm going to go to that bar instead of going home to see my wife or my husband or my kids or whatever it may be." And I don't want to behave that way.
我要去那个酒吧，而不是回家看望我的妻子、丈夫、孩子或其他任何人。”我不想那样做。
Because there, it's a great example of how you can stop that from happening, but once it starts happening, the dominoes start falling, it's very, very hard.
因为这是一个很好的例子，说明如何阻止这种情况发生，但一旦它开始发生，多米诺骨牌就会开始倒下，这非常非常困难。
The people don't generally realize, "Oh my goodness, I'm in the bar and I've had one drink, and now I'm going to have two more." That's not the time.
人们通常不会意识到，“天哪，我在酒吧里喝了一杯，现在我要再喝两杯。”那不是时候。
But the understanding, the reflection upon behavior patterns, can lead a person to stop those behaviors, to understand and recognize them, get their arms around them, shine the light of day on them, and then have greater agency.
但是理解，对行为模式的反思，可以引导一个人停止这些行为，理解和认识它们，拥抱它们，照亮它们，然后拥有更大的能动性。
Greater gratitude.
更大的感恩。
I'm grateful I can go home to my family, and that's what I choose to do.
我很庆幸我可以回家与家人团聚，这就是我选择做的事情。
And I can do that.
我能做到。
I do not have to end up at that bar, and I'm not going to end up at that bar.
我不必在那个酒吧结束，我也不会在那个酒吧结束。
I'm going to drive a different way home.
我要开车走另一条路回家。
And if I can't get myself to do that, I'm going to have a friend in the car with me.
如果我不能让自己做到这一点，我会让一个朋友和我一起在车里。
And if I can't do that, I'll be in the back seat.
如果我做不到这一点，我就会坐在后座。
But I'm not doing that thing I choose not to do.
但我不会做我选择不做的事情。
And it's a more dramatic example and not an uncommon one, but we can apply that the whole way up the list from nuances of our behaviors down to more dramatic behaviors.
这是一个更戏剧化的例子，而且并不罕见，但我们可以将这一点应用到整个列表中，从我们行为的细微差别到更戏剧化的行为。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've heard you describe the unconscious mind and some of its other interconnected workings with the analogy of a phantom in the driver's seat, and we're in the back seat.
我听你用驾驶座上的幻影来比喻无意识思维及其其他一些相互关联的运作方式，而我们坐在后座上。
Of course, all within one person.
当然，这一切都在一个人之内。
This idea that we're just being taken places that we don't want to go or that we know we shouldn't go, or that we can't really figure out why we're going there.
这种想法是，我们只是被带到了我们不想去的地方，或者我们知道我们不应该去，或者我们无法真正弄清楚为什么我们要去那里。
And we have some idea, but we're just not certain about what's going on.
我们有一些想法，但我们不确定到底发生了什么。
It's not necessarily related to really destructive action either.
它也不一定与真正的破坏性行为有关。
It can be, but what you're describing sounds to me a lot like climbing out of the back seat and maybe sitting in the passenger seat and looking into the driver's seat and going, "Oh, there's something else going on here." Of course, all of this is one mind.
可能是这样，但你所描述的对我来说听起来很像从后座爬出来，也许坐在乘客座位上，看着驾驶座，然后说，“哦，这里还发生了其他事情。”当然，这一切都是一念之间。
And in doing that, taking some control of the vehicle.
在此过程中，对车辆进行一些控制。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
It's about understanding what is that phantom?
这是为了了解那个幻影是什么？
Where did it come from?
它从哪里来？
That's how we get rid of it.
这就是我们摆脱它的方法。
It's like, how do we get back in the driver's seat?
就像，我们如何回到驾驶座上？
We don't grab the phantom and throw it out the door or throw it in the back seat.
我们不会抓住幻影并将其扔出门外或扔到后座上。
It's ephemeral.
它是短暂的。
We can't grab it.
我们抢不到。
So how does it go away?
那么它是如何消失的呢？
It goes away through understanding.
它会通过理解而消失。
So very common example, that the phantom in the driver's seat is trauma that we have pushed in an unconscious place, and now that whole under the surface structure of the iceberg is fragmented and is roiling, and there's a big problem there.
非常常见的例子，驾驶座上的幻影是我们推入无意识的地方的创伤，现在冰山表面结构下的整体支离破碎，正在翻滚，那里有一个大问题。
And if we go at that problem and whatever it's spinning off, that's the abscess, but it's a bad one, and it's spinning off a lot of problems, and that's why the phantom is in the driver's seat, because healthy things are not built on top of that fracturing and roiling part of the iceberg.
如果我们解决这个问题以及它产生的任何问题，那就是脓肿，但这是一个糟糕的问题，它会产生很多问题，这就是为什么幽灵坐在驾驶座上，因为健康的东西不是建立在冰山破碎和翻滚的部分之上的。
We see that a lot.
我们经常看到这样的情况。
The phantom could also be something different.
幻影也可能是不同的东西。
It could be one defense mechanism that's unhealthy that we are really over-relying on, and then we can understand it through that lens.
这可能是我们真正过度依赖的一种不健康的防御机制，然后我们可以通过这个镜头来理解它。
So they're just a few examples, but if we wake up in the back seat of the car, so to speak, and the phantom is driving recklessly, then how we get the phantom out of the front seat is by understanding it.
所以它们只是几个例子，但是如果我们在汽车后座醒来，可以这么说，并且幻影正在鲁莽驾驶，那么我们如何将幻影从前座上救出来就是通过理解它。
Then, I always imagine, poof, it goes away, because now it's not driving my life anymore.
然后，我总是想象，噗，它消失了，因为现在它不再驱动我的生活了。
I'm driving my life.
我正在驾驶我的生活。
It's gone.
它消失了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The message that I'm hearing over and over again in my head is that no matter how well or how poorly any of our lives happen to be going, that by looking in these cupboards under structure of self and function of self, we can have so much more positive control.
我在脑海中一遍又一遍地听到的信息是，无论我们的生活发生得多么好或多坏，通过在自我结构和自我功能下查看这些橱柜，我们可以拥有更多积极的控制。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
That's why, ultimately, what we're talking about is optimistic.
这就是为什么我们最终谈论的是乐观的。
We can't help ourselves if we don't honor truth.
如果我们不尊重真理，我们就无法帮助自己。
And the truth is that there are complex aspects of this.
事实上，这其中有复杂的方面。
So, okay, we want to go look at that, and we want to look at how things can go wrong, and that's all very, very important.
所以，好吧，我们想看看这个，我们想看看事情是如何出错的，这非常非常重要。
But that's all wrapped in the best truth, which is that we can change it.
但这一切都包含在最好的事实中，那就是我们可以改变它。
We can make it better.
我们可以让它变得更好。
That's why the self, the garden of self, is on top of the structure of self.
这就是为什么自我、自我花园位于自我结构之上。
And the top of the function of self are our strivings.
自我功能的最重要部分是我们的努力。
That's what comes next after behaviors.
这就是行为之后接下来发生的事情。
It's like, what are my behaviors doing?
就像，我的行为在做什么？
What am I doing?
我在做什么？
What am I striving towards?
我努力的目标是什么？
What am I doing, literally?
从字面上看，我在做什么？
Am I going to a job I hate?
我会去做我讨厌的工作吗？
Am I doing things I don't want to do?
我在做我不想做的事情吗？
Am I accepting treatment that I don't want to accept?
我是否正在接受我不想接受的治疗？
Am I treating people in ways I don't want to accept?
我是否以我不愿意接受的方式对待别人？
How can I strive for better?
我怎样才能争取更好？
And striving and hopefulness are so intertwined.
努力和希望是如此交织在一起。
So the pinnacle of the function pillar is striving.
因此，功能支柱的顶峰就是努力。
The pinnacle of the structure pillar is self.
结构支柱的顶峰是自我。
And we can see how the self, the strivings, what we're doing now is combining the pillars where it comes together and your imagery of that's where the geyser comes from, and we want that geyser to be healthy.
我们可以看到自我、努力、我们现在正在做的事情是如何将它聚集在一起的支柱和你对间歇泉的来源的想象结合起来，我们希望间歇泉是健康的。
It's a stream of clear, clean water that's coming out of it.
一股清澈见底的水从其中流淌而出。
That's where our empowerment is.
这就是我们的赋权所在。
But empowerment is a condition of being.
但赋权是存在的条件。
I am empowered.
我被赋予了力量。
Empowerment rests within me.
赋权就在我之内。
That's where humility comes into the picture.
这就是谦卑的用武之地。
Humility also something within me.
谦卑也是我内心的一部分。
I have humility.
我有谦虚的态度。
They're not verbs, but empowerment and humility then gain their expression at the top of that geyser when agency and gratitude, those verbs, arise from empowerment and humility.
它们不是动词，但当代理和感激这些动词从赋权和谦卑中产生时，赋权和谦卑就会在间歇泉的顶部得到表达。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What you've drawn for us is an incredibly compelling picture.
你为我们绘制的是一幅令人难以置信的引人注目的图画。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because the picture or the map, is really a road map.
因为图片或地图实际上是一张路线图。
It's a path to ideals And, you've been talking about these ideals of agency and gratitude across this series, and they just encompass so much.
这是一条通往理想的道路，而且，您在整个系列中一直在谈论这些代理和感恩的理想，它们包含了很多内容。
And as you mentioned before, they are interconnected, and they are verb states.
正如您之前提到的，它们是相互关联的，并且它们是动词状态。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And a critical component of the geysering up from the pillars toward agency and gratitude are these two components of empowerment and humility.
从支柱到代理和感恩的间歇泉的一个关键组成部分是赋权和谦逊这两个组成部分。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Tell us a little bit more about empowerment and humility and how we should view empowerment and humility in the context of self-care.
告诉我们更多关于赋权和谦逊的信息，以及我们应该如何在自我保健的背景下看待赋权和谦逊。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Well, empowerment is a state that we can create for ourselves if we're taking care of the pillars.
好吧，如果我们照顾好支柱，我们就可以为自己创造一种状态。
Right?
正确的？
So we're looking in the cupboards.
所以我们正在橱柜里寻找。
We're doing the things that make our map clearer and clearer, right?
我们正在做的事情让我们的地图越来越清晰，对吗？
This idea that, oh, that seemed like a good path, but it gets clearer and there's a swamp there, right?
这个想法，哦，这似乎是一条好路，但它变得更加清晰，那里有一片沼泽，对吗？
Or that didn't seem like a good path because it's circuitous.
或者说这似乎不是一条好路，因为它很迂回。
Oh, no, but there are good things along that path.
哦，不，但是这条路上有一些好事。
So the map gets clearer as we tend to the cupboards in the pillars, and that empowers us.
因此，当我们看管柱子上的橱柜时，地图会变得更加清晰，这给了我们力量。
Right?
正确的？
We're in a state.
我们处于一种状态。
There's a state inside of us that is a state of potentials that are now skewed in a good way.
我们内心有一种状态，一种现在以良好的方式倾斜的潜力状态。
Right?
正确的？
That's what empowerment is.
这就是赋权。
It's not something that happens.
这不是发生的事情。
It's a state that we then bring to bear on what happens, right?
这是一种我们随后对发生的事情施加影响的状态，对吗？
The same is true of humility.
谦卑也是同样的道理。
Humility does not mean not acknowledging things that are good about you.
谦虚并不意味着不承认自己的优点。
Right?
正确的？
And we often can very much mischaracterize humility.
我们常常会错误地描述谦卑。
Like is that person being weak?
比如说这个人很弱吗？
Is it false humility?
这是虚假的谦卑吗？
Or people often who are conscientious don't want to acknowledge good things about them.
或者，有责任心的人往往不想承认自己的优点。
"Oh, no, no, I'm not that smart." That's not humility, right?
“哦，不，不，我没那么聪明。”这不是谦虚吧？
Humility is consistent with truth.
谦卑与真理是一致的。
Right?
正确的？
So if you keep saying you're not that smart, but the world around you tells you that you're that smart, right, then acknowledge that you're that smart, right?
所以，如果你一直说你没那么聪明，但你周围的世界告诉你，你那么聪明，对吧，那么承认你那么聪明，对吧？
That's coming through the lens of truth.
这是透过真理的镜头来看的。
And we can go down to the pillars and the cupboards and say, okay, how does a person get to acknowledging that truth, right?
我们可以走到柱子和橱柜前问，好吧，一个人如何才能承认这个事实，对吧？
So it's only by squaring away the things that humility isn't.
因此，只有消除谦卑所不具备的东西。
Right?
正确的？
It is not denigrating ourselves.
这并不是在贬低我们自己。
And we see that in a lot of people.
我们在很多人身上都看到了这一点。
"I'm humble, so..." And then that person often tells you why they're accepting something that's not good to accept, right?
“我很谦虚，所以……”然后那个人经常会告诉你为什么他们要接受一些不好接受的东西，对吗？
So humility is about acknowledging truthfully the characteristics that you have within yourself, good and bad.
因此，谦卑意味着如实承认自己的性格特征，无论是好的还是坏的。
And here is where we can identify things that we're not so happy with, right?
在这里我们可以识别出我们不太满意的事情，对吧？
We have to have humility within us in order to make ourselves better, right?
为了让自己变得更好，我们必须保持谦卑，对吗？
Just like I have to say, "Look, I'd like to be more fit," if I'm going to then get myself in a more fit state.
就像我必须说，“看，我想要更健康”，如果我想让自己处于更健康的状态。
Right?
正确的？
So saying, "Look, I can be a little bit too snippy with people if I'm irritated, or I can be a little bit condescending, or I can be a little selfish at times." It's hard to admit these things to ourselves, but if we have the humility to acknowledge those things, right, then we also get to have that broader humility about just being a person.
所以说，“看，如果我生气的话，我可能会对别人有点太暴躁，或者我可能有点居高临下，或者有时我可能有点自私。”向自己承认这些事情很难，但如果我们谦虚地承认这些事情，对吧，那么我们也能对作为一个人有更广泛的谦逊。
Like, wow, look how complicated this is to navigate life.
就像，哇，看看生活是多么复杂。
These pillars are not simple, and when we go down to the real base elements of them, it can get very complicated.
这些支柱并不简单，当我们深入了解它们的真正基本元素时，它可能会变得非常复杂。
So then we have a compassion, right, for self and for others.
因此，我们对自己和他人都有同情心，对吧。
Sometimes I'll say to a person, "Oh, I should be doing this.
有时我会对一个人说：“哦，我应该这样做。
I should be doing that." They think they should be doing something perfectly.
我应该这样做。”他们认为自己应该把某件事做得完美。
And I will say to them, "It's amazing that we're moving forward, right?" Let's start with, wow, it's not easy to be human.
我会对他们说：“我们正在前进，这真是太棒了，对吧？”首先，哇，做人不容易。
It's not easy to navigate this world.
驾驭这个世界并不容易。
And that kind of humility can then allow us to feel good about what we build on top of it.
这种谦逊可以让我们对我们在此基础上构建的东西感到满意。
Right?
正确的？
It's not easy to navigate this world, and humans are pretty vulnerable by and large, but I'm applying myself, right?
驾驭这个世界并不容易，而且人类总体上也很脆弱，但我正在努力，对吧？
And I'm proud that I'm applying myself and that I'm perseverant, but also, I'd like to be a little more compassionate.
我为自己的努力和坚持感到自豪，但同时，我也想变得更有同情心。
It's that sort of thing that combines with empowerment.
这就是与授权相结合的事情。
So empowerment and humility are these potential states that then express themselves or become enacted, however we wish to put that, but they change into the active verbs of agency and gratitude.
因此，赋权和谦卑是这些潜在的状态，然后它们会表达自己或成为现实，无论我们如何表达，但它们都会变成代理和感激的主动动词。
And agency and gratitude are ways of being, right?
代理和感恩是存在的方式，对吗？
They're verbs.
它们是动词。
They're active.
他们很活跃。
So that's the point of it from the sense of how we are living, right?
从我们的生活方式来看，这就是重点，对吗？
How we are being.
我们怎么样。
That's why agency and gratitude is, in some sense, its own endpoint, right?
这就是为什么从某种意义上说，代理和感恩是它自己的终点，对吗？
But because there's a circular aspect of this, right, our active being is not the endpoint.
但因为这有一个循环的方面，所以我们的积极存在并不是终点。
If we're being in a healthy way, then we get to experience things, right?
如果我们以健康的方式生活，那么我们就能体验到一些事情，对吗？
Peace, contentment, delight.
平安、满足、喜悦。
We experience them because we are healthy.
我们经历它们是因为我们很健康。
So we get to be through the lens of agency and gratitude.
因此，我们必须通过代理和感恩的视角。
We get to experience peace, contentment, and delight, and that makes a healthier us.
我们能够体验到平静、满足和快乐，这让我们变得更健康。
The drives and their expression are in better balance.
驱动力和表达更加平衡。
The generative drive is fostered and strengthened, and the drives underneath of it, the aggression, assertion, proactive, right, we're really using that in a good way, and we're mining all of it within us.
生成驱动力得到培养和加强，其背后的驱动力，侵略性，主张，积极主动，对，我们确实以一种很好的方式利用它，我们正在挖掘我们内心的所有这些。
I want to bring that to bear, and I can bring more of it to bear, right?
我想承受这一点，而且我可以承受更多，对吗？
That's very, very good.
这非常非常好。
And the pleasure drive is active in us.
我们体内的快乐驱动力很活跃。
I'm enjoying the things I do.
我很享受我所做的事情。
I feel good about the things I do.
我对自己所做的事情感觉良好。
I'm making good choices.
我正在做出很好的选择。
And that state of health, it promotes the pillars, the cupboards, to stay clean and clear and healthy, right?
而那种健康状态，它促进柱子、橱柜保持干净、整洁和健康，对吗？
But life is life, and the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, the slings and arrows of life will continue to come at us and cause us to go back and look at the pillars and the cupboards.
但生活就是生活，巨额财富的弹弓和箭矢，生命的弹弓和箭矢将继续向我们袭来，让我们回头看看柱子和橱柜。
And even if they don't come at us, those things are never perfect, right?
即使他们不来找我们，那些事情也永远不会完美，对吧？
But that's not bad, because by tending to them, where do we bring ourselves?
但这还不错，因为通过照顾它们，我们会把自己带到哪里？
We bring ourselves back to the active verbs of agency and gratitude, the active verbs of living.
我们把自己带回代理和感恩的主动动词，以及生活的主动动词。
And here we are in this cycle that if we pay attention to it, we use it to understand ourselves, we use it to improve ourselves, can bring us to better lives.
我们正处于这样的循环中，如果我们关注它，我们用它来了解自己，我们用它来提高自己，可以给我们带来更好的生活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How do you think about a person and I confess I've been this person, perhaps still am to some extent, who can really have a sense of agency and gratitude in certain domains, maybe even many domains of life.
你如何看待一个人，我承认我曾经是这样的人，也许在某种程度上仍然是这样的人，在某些领域，甚至在生活的许多领域，他能够真正拥有代理感和感激之情。
And yet feels as if there are certain areas of life that are just so much more challenging than others by this stark contrast.
然而，通过这种鲜明的对比，感觉生活中的某些领域比其他领域更具挑战性。
Like, this stuff works, can do that, but this stuff is just really, really hard.
就像，这个东西有效，可以做到这一点，但是这个东西真的非常非常难。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And maybe that continues long enough that it almost starts to feel like, or the person wonders whether or not maybe that part of life is inaccessible to me.
也许这种情况持续了足够长的时间，以至于几乎开始有这种感觉，或者这个人想知道我是否无法接触到生活的这一部分。
It's just never going to be successful for me.
对我来说永远不会成功。
How do you think about these carve-outs of functionality and lack of functionality?
您如何看待这些功能的剥离和功能的缺乏？
That's probably not the right language, but I think this is important because it relates directly, I believe, to the kind of narratives that we tell ourselves.
这可能不是正确的语言，但我认为这很重要，因为我相信它与我们告诉自己的叙述类型直接相关。
They are narratives, right?
它们是叙事，对吗？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it's important to think about these because they are intermeshed with, and perhaps even the consequence of narratives that we have, like stories about ourselves that we have internally.
我认为思考这些很重要，因为它们与我们拥有的叙事相互交织，甚至可能是我们拥有的叙事的结果，比如我们内部的关于我们自己的故事。
And again, I'll be the first to admit that I've felt this way for much of my life.
再说一次，我将是第一个承认我一生中大部分时间都有这种感觉的人。
Certain things I can do, other things, far, far harder, and sometimes have felt outside the reach of possibility.
有些事情我可以做，而另一些事情则要困难得多，有时感觉超出了可能性的范围。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
I have a very concise answer to this one.
对于这个问题我有一个非常简洁的答案。
In fact, it's nine words.
其实就是九个字。
Don't make yourself special in ways that hurt you.
不要以伤害你的方式让自己变得特别。
And we tend to do that as humans.
作为人类，我们倾向于这样做。
"Oh, I get to have A, B, and C, but I don't get to have D.
“哦，我有 A、B 和 C，但我没有 D。
I get to have professional success, and I'm in pretty good shape, and I have a lot of friends, but I don't get to have a relationship." Over and over and over because the relationship part is so emotionally laden, it's the part that gets carved out, falsely carved out the most.
我在职业上取得了成功，我的身体状况也很好，我有很多朋友，但我无法建立一段关系。”一遍又一遍，因为关系部分充满了情感，所以它是被雕刻出来的部分，被错误地雕刻得最多。
But it can happen in any arena of life where we make ourselves special in a way that really is black magic or is being cursed.
但它可能发生在生活的任何领域，只要我们以一种真正的黑魔法或被诅咒的方式让自己变得特别。
You have the machinery, the ability, the function to go about pursuing the things you want and get them.
你有机制、有能力、有功能去追求你想要的东西并得到它们。
That sounds like a pretty good paradigm, except about something really important to you.
这听起来是一个非常好的范例，除了一些对你来说非常重要的事情。
That can't be.
那不可能。
We're applying the same machinery of self because we're talking about the things people want on a broad scale.
我们正在应用相同的自我机制，因为我们正在广泛谈论人们想要的东西。
Like I would like professional success.
就像我想要职业成功一样。
I would like personal success.
我想要个人成功。
I would like to do well in my family unit and be a good family member.
我想在我的家庭单位表现出色，成为一个好家庭成员。
I would like romance.
我想要浪漫。
So we're talking about areas of self.
所以我们谈论的是自我领域。
And we will make ourselves special by carving out one and then applying black magic or some cursed state that then takes that away from us, and that creates tremendous consternation.
我们将通过雕刻出一个，然后应用黑魔法或某种被诅咒的状态来使自己变得特别，然后将其从我们身上夺走，这会造成巨大的惊愕。
That will throw all of those cupboards in those pyramids off balance because we don't like that.
这将使金字塔中的所有橱柜失去平衡，因为我们不喜欢这样。
That seems mysterious and ominous.
这似乎神秘又不祥。
What is there that you don't know that's about being cursed, so you can't have something?
有什么是你不知道的，那就是被诅咒，所以你不能拥有什么？
And then that makes anger and frustration in us, and more likely that we'll act out or we'll be frustrated, and we start enjoying things less.
然后，这会让我们感到愤怒和沮丧，更有可能我们会表现出来，或者我们会感到沮丧，并且我们开始减少对事物的享受。
Sometimes a person can wall something off like that, and they can go forward with the rest of life.
有时一个人可以像这样隔离一些事情，然后他们就可以继续余生。
It affects them, but it's not obvious.
它会影响他们，但并不明显。
It's not on their mind all the time, which is why the process of self-inquiry can reveal important things.
他们并不总是在想这些，这就是为什么自我探究的过程可以揭示重要的事情。
Like, "Oh, I pretend that I don't even care about professional success.
就像，“哦，我假装我什至不关心职业成功。
Why do I do that?
我为什么要这么做？
It's the only thing I'm not doing very well, and because I think it's impossible for me.
这是我唯一做得不好的事情，因为我认为这对我来说是不可能的。
It's not something I get.
这不是我得到的东西。
Why?
为什么？
Because I got other things, so I don't get that." Okay, now we're really curious about that.
因为我还有其他东西，所以我不明白。”好吧，现在我们对此很好奇。
And sometimes it causes very, very big problems where a person can build an external sense of self that soothes some of their vulnerability, so they can present in a certain way, but underneath of that, they're hiding the sadness or the pain of what is missing.
有时它会导致非常非常大的问题，一个人可以建立一种外部的自我意识来缓解他们的一些脆弱性，这样他们就可以以某种方式呈现，但在这背后，他们隐藏着失去的悲伤或痛苦。
But that is then sort of eating away at them, and their feelings of self on the inside don't match what people see on the outside.
但这在某种程度上蚕食了他们，他们内心的自我感觉与人们在外表上看到的不符。
We see a lot of this, and the process of self-inquiry, of self-exploration, of curiosity about self can lead us to realize what we've carved out if we don't already realize it, or it can help us to see that the carve-out makes no sense.
我们看到了很多这样的事情，自我探究、自我探索、对自我好奇的过程可以引导我们认识到我们已经雕刻出来的东西（如果我们还没有意识到的话），或者它可以帮助我们看到雕刻出来的东西毫无意义。
It's as if you said, "Well, there are nine roads around my home, and they're all just regular old roads.
就好像你说：“嗯，我家周围有九条路，而且都是普通的老路。
I can drive on eight of them but not the ninth." And you say, "Well, it doesn't make any sense if they're similar." It requires the same set of skills.
我可以驾驶其中八辆，但不能驾驶第九辆。”你会说：“好吧，如果它们相似那就没有任何意义了。”它需要相同的技能。
If you know how to drive the car and have the visual acuity, why wouldn't you be able to drive down the ninth?
如果你会开车并且有视力，为什么你不能开到第九号呢？
But even though that's a very mundane example, but it's that that we apply to very important and emotionally charged aspects of our life.
尽管这是一个非常平凡的例子，但它却适用于我们生活中非常重要且充满情感的方面。
"I get to have physical fitness and friends and career success, but I don't get to have love." We hear people say this, and that's a very powerful way of taking us away from what we want to achieve in life.
“我可以拥有身体健康、朋友和事业成功，但我无法拥有爱情。”我们听到人们这么说，这是一种非常有力的方式，让我们远离我们想要在生活中实现的目标。
It takes us away from the active agency and gratitude and all the good that comes of that.
它让我们远离了积极的主动性和感激之情以及由此带来的所有好处。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What you just said makes a lot of sense, especially the point that if we have nine roads around us and we can drive down eight of them, why not the ninth?
你刚才说的很有道理，特别是如果我们周围有九条路，我们可以开其中八条路，为什么不能开第九条路呢？
Because it places us back into the verb tense and the action tense of the car, like we're a vehicle, the "I" that we can take through the world.
因为它让我们回到汽车的动词时态和动作时态，就像我们是一辆交通工具，我们可以带着“我”穿越世界。
Sure, conditions matter.
当然，条件很重要。
Maybe road number nine has boulders on it, but it can't be that roads one through eight were all just smooth superhighways either.
也许九号公路上有巨石，但一号到八号公路也不可能都是平坦的高速公路。
Those had challenges and We, I'm not going to use myself as an example, I, for whoever is doing this sort of exercise, had a mind that was able to work around those boulders, right, of challenging people, of limited finances.
这些都面临着挑战，我们，我不会以自己为例，我，无论是谁在做这种练习，都有一个能够解决这些巨石的思想，对吧，挑战财务有限的人。
These are all things I've experienced.
这些都是我经历过的。
And of course, people come into the world with different levels of challenge and privilege and accessibility, et cetera.
当然，人们来到这个世界上时会面临不同程度的挑战、特权和便利性等等。
We don't want to deny all of that, but those other eight roads are rarely, if ever, perfectly smooth roads.
我们不想否认所有这些，但其他八条道路很少（如果有的话）是完全平坦的道路。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
That's why it's completely about the self, right?
这就是为什么它完全是关于自我的，对吧？
And it's the realization that if I brought myself to bear and I got down the first eight, I can bring myself to bear and get down the ninth.
我意识到，如果我能承受住并取得前八名，我就能承受住并取得第九名。
And as you're pointing out, it's not like the first eight were easy, right?
正如你所指出的，前八个并不容易，对吧？
Maybe one of them was really pretty smooth, right?
也许其中之一真的很顺利，对吧？
But there's going to be a couple of them in there that have raised really strong difficulties, things to surmount and to overcome.
但其中会有一些问题提出了非常严峻的困难，需要克服和克服的事情。
And it's from that place of understanding that we find within ourselves the courage, the strength to go down the ninth road, even if we see greater barriers, even if we're, "Okay, I'm aware now, but I'm also aware that I avoided that ninth road for a reason." Right?
正是从这种理解的地方，我们在自己内心找到了走第九条路的勇气和力量，即使我们看到更大的障碍，即使我们说，“好吧，我现在知道了，但我也知道我避开第九条路是有原因的。”正确的？
The boulders and the potholes, they're more severe on that road.
巨石和坑洼，在那条路上更严重。
In fact, I'm kind of worried that it's impassable.
事实上，我有点担心它无法通过。
But it can't be impassable, right?
但总不能是不通的吧？
If there's boulders there, I'll go rent some excavating equipment, or I'll fill in the potholes, right?
如果那里有巨石，我就去租一些挖掘设备，或者我去填坑洼，对吧？
And that's how we get ourselves to go forward and to acknowledge and validate.
这就是我们如何让自己前进、承认和验证。
Like, I'm afraid of doing that.
就像，我害怕这样做。
If I weren't afraid of doing it, I would have done it already, right?
如果我不害怕这么做，我早就这么做了，对吧？
But I now realize what the truth is and what I brought to bear in the first eight, and now I'm going to bring myself to bear for the ninth.
但我现在意识到了真相是什么，也明白了我在前八场比赛中所经历的一切，现在我要让自己在第九场比赛中承受。
That's also when we recruit, often, resources around us, where we might say, like, "Let me tell a couple good friends about this, or a clergy member or a therapist or a trusted other, and let me explore this more in myself." And that's often how in making ourselves better, we engage more with the people around us, and then the support from someone else that may help a person do that is support given back to the other person.
当我们经常招募周围的资源时，我们可能会说，“让我告诉几个好朋友这件事，或者告诉神职人员、治疗师或值得信赖的其他人，然后让我自己更多地探索这一点。”通常，为了让自己变得更好，我们更多地与周围的人接触，然后其他人的支持可能会帮助一个人做到这一点，这也是对另一个人的支持。
And this is also how we build the beyond self, is that the path to travel down the ninth road, so to speak, we don't have to travel alone much of the time.
这也是我们建立超越自我的方式，是走第九条路的道路，可以说，我们很多时候不需要独自旅行。
But that often almost always wasn't in the person's mind, right?
但这通常几乎总是不在人们的脑海中，对吗？
They perceive, it's a three-person job to go down and say, "Great, you have two friends."
他们认为，这是一项三人的工作，需要下去说：“太好了，你有两个朋友。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes, certainly where I've been able to travel down certain roads, the key features have been a desire to go down that road, a recognition of the landscape, but not trying to take on the whole thing all at once, and then finding really good people and frankly, really trying to avoid people that seemed poisonous to the journey, right?
是的，当然，在我能够沿着某些道路旅行的地方，关键特征是渴望沿着那条路走，对风景的认可，但不要试图一次性承担全部事情，然后找到真正好的人，坦率地说，真的试图避开那些对旅程有毒的人，对吗？
That were going to throw toxic things into the engine of my vehicle.
这会将有毒物质扔进我车辆的发动机中。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that's putting a lot on them, but it just felt as if going down those other roads was too valuable an expedition to spend time on and with people that it wasn't helpful to spend time with.
这给他们带来了很大的压力，但感觉好像沿着其他道路走下去的探险太有价值了，不值得花时间和那些花时间在没有帮助的人身上。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And at the same time, there have always been good people that have presented themselves with examples.
与此同时，总有一些好人以身作则。
I think this is where it comes to mind that it's not always the case that you got a friend who's saying, "You can do this, and here's why," or a therapist that says, "You can do this, and here's why." But that there are examples in the world of like, well, this person did this.
我认为这就是你想到的地方，你并不总是有一个朋友说，“你可以做到这一点，这就是原因”，或者一个治疗师说，“你可以做到这一点，这就是原因。”但世界上有这样的例子，这个人就是这么做的。
I think when we have challenges in a certain domain, that ninth road, so to speak, I know for myself that I know I'm in a place of futility when I start to reflexively orient towards others that have had a problem getting down that road.
我认为，当我们在某个领域遇到挑战时，可以说，第九条路，我自己知道，当我开始条件反射地面向那些在这条路上遇到问题的人时，我知道自己处于徒劳的境地。
Like, oh, I recognize this other person who's been good at roads one through eight, but not nine.
就像，哦，我认识另一个人，他擅长一到八号道路，但不擅长九号道路。
And it occurred to me during the course of this series, really, that why not pick different examples?
在本系列的学习过程中，我突然想到，为什么不选择不同的例子呢？
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
So if you're going on a journey, and it's a really important journey, and it's a difficult journey, but it can be awesome, bring good people, right?
所以，如果你要踏上一段旅程，这是一段非常重要的旅程，也是一段艰难的旅程，但它可以很棒，带上好人，对吧？
Have them on your journey.
让他们踏上您的旅程。
Be on their journey.
踏上他们的旅程。
And then you think, "Well, why would a person not bring good people?" If I were going on a journey, and it's going to be arduous, but wow, we could see amazing things along the way.
然后你会想：“那么，为什么一个人不带好人呢？”如果我要去旅行，那会很艰难，但是哇，我们沿途可以看到令人惊奇的事情。
I can bring a couple people with me.
我可以带几个人一起去。
I don't want to choose a couple people who are lazy, some who don't look at the world around them, and some that won't be helpful to somebody else in need.
我不想选择一些懒惰的人，一些不关注周围世界的人，以及一些不会为其他有需要的人提供帮助的人。
It's like, why would one choose that, right?
就像，为什么人们会选择那样，对吧？
It comes back to the self, right?
它又回到了自我，对吗？
If a person, now we're talking about any journey, right?
如果是一个人，现在我们谈论的是任何旅程，对吧？
Because it's the journey of life, right?
因为这是人生的旅程，不是吗？
If a person is choosing people you wouldn't choose to be on the journey with you, it's because you don't think that you're worth better, right?
如果一个人选择了你不会选择与你同行的人，那是因为你认为自己不值得更好，对吗？
And if you think that you're worth better, you won't choose the people.
如果你认为自己更有价值，你就不会选择这些人。
You'll say, "I want other people like me.
你会说：“我想要其他人像我一样。
I'm going to be diligent, perceptive, collegial, cooperative, so I'm going to surround myself with people like that." And if we look beyond ourselves at groups of people and at culture, the healthier we are, the more we ally with healthy people, and the more healthy we are because we're making ourselves healthy, we get healthier groups of people.
我会勤奋、有洞察力、团结、合作，所以我会让自己周围都是这样的人。”如果我们超越自身，着眼于人群和文化，我们越健康，我们与健康的人越多结盟，我们就越健康，因为我们使自己健康，我们的人群也更健康。
The journey is better for all of us, and this is how we can make the whole culture better, right?
这个旅程对我们所有人来说都更好，这就是我们如何让整个文化变得更好，对吧？
Potentially, this is how we can make life on the planet better, but it has to start somewhere, so it has to start with the I.
或许，这就是我们如何让地球上的生活变得更好，但它必须从某个地方开始，所以它必须从“我”开始。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love, love, love the message that if you're heading off on a journey that's really meaningful to go with and Make sure that you interact with good people.
我非常喜欢这样的信息：如果你要踏上一段真正有意义的旅程，请确保你与好人互动。
This is actually a place where a reference to social media and online communities is actually worthwhile and can be very beneficial.
这实际上是一个值得参考社交媒体和在线社区的地方，并且非常有益。
I think it's easy for us to roll our eyes at self-help and things like that.
我认为我们很容易对自助之类的事情翻白眼。
On the other hand, there are communities online that I consider myself a part of, but of which I and many other people have derived a lot of strength, a lot of reassurance, and confidence.
另一方面，我认为自己是一些在线社区的一部分，但我和其他许多人都从这些社区中获得了很多力量、很多保证和信心。
Right?
正确的？
Because a lot of people are isolated.
因为很多人都是孤立的。
They might have access to one or two people in their community that they really value, but those people are perhaps also busy with other people.
他们可能会接触到社区中他们真正重视的一两个人，但这些人可能也忙于与其他人打交道。
Or, I can remember being a student alone in my studio apartment as an undergraduate, feeling very much against the grain of my local environment, too much partying for me at the time.
或者，我还记得本科时独自在单间公寓里做学生时，感觉与当地环境格格不入，当时我参加了太多的派对。
Meaning, I wasn't partying, and there was a lot of partying around me, and had I been a better student in high school, I probably would've been able to healthily engage in that.
意思是，我没有参加聚会，而且我周围有很多聚会，如果我在高中时是一个更好的学生，我可能能够健康地参与其中。
But I just wasn't able.
但我就是做不到。
So feeling pretty isolated, but knowing I was on a path.
所以感觉很孤立，但知道我正在一条路上。
So in that case, it was one professor, one graduate student, and a hell of a lot of books and music.
所以在这种情况下，只有一位教授、一位研究生和大量的书籍和音乐。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That, to me, just carried me through.
对我来说，这只是让我度过了难关。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nowadays, I'm fortunate to have many more direct resources in my life of amazing people.
如今，我很幸运能够在生活中拥有更多直接资源，接触到很多优秀的人。
But I just want to mention that because I think in this discussion around self-care and the various practices, I think there are sure to be people who are that kid, that woman, that man that's alone in a room, thinking like, "Okay, but how?" Right?
但我只想提一下，因为我认为在关于自我保健和各种实践的讨论中，我认为肯定有人是那个孩子、那个女人、那个独自在一个房间里的男人，他们的想法是，“好吧，但是怎么做呢？”正确的？
I see the grocer once a week, and I see my neighbor, and they don't even say hello.
我每周见一次杂货店，见见我的邻居，他们甚至不打招呼。
And how to start to access some of these better connections.
以及如何开始访问其中一些更好的连接。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
Navigating the online world is navigating the world.
畅游网络世界就是畅游世界。
Right?
正确的？
It comes down to understanding and choice.
这取决于理解和选择。
So if we're understanding as best we can, we're making choice as best we can, then we'll find great things online.
因此，如果我们尽可能地理解，尽可能地做出选择，那么我们就会在网上找到很棒的东西。
There are great things to find online.
网上有很多很棒的东西可以找到。
Same is true of life.
生活也是如此。
If we're searching for something that, for example, allies us around hatred, around acting out, around things that make us unhappy, even around commiseration instead of thinking about how we can make things better, right, then we bring ourselves in a different direction.
例如，如果我们正在寻找一些东西，让我们在仇恨、行动、让我们不快乐的事情、甚至同情的周围结盟，而不是思考如何让事情变得更好，那么我们就会把自己带向不同的方向。
That's life.
这就是生活。
If we understand and we choose as best we can, we will lead ourself to better places.
如果我们理解并尽力选择，我们就会带领自己走向更好的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Such an important message and is a perfect segue into a question that I, and I'm certain many, many other people, have about anger.
这是一个如此重要的信息，完美地引出了我以及许多其他人对愤怒的疑问。
And not just anger from interpersonal conflict, like somebody said something and it really upset me, but stuff that we see, stuff that we observe in the world.
不仅仅是来自人际冲突的愤怒，就像有人说了一些让我感到非常不安的事情，而是我们看到的东西，我们在世界上观察到的东西。
It could be acts against other people, words against other people, or that we take reference to, and I think many people feel yanked around by, even dragged by something they see, and they can't get it out of their head.
它可能是针对他人的行为，针对他人的言语，或者是我们提到的，我认为很多人都感到被他们看到的东西拉扯，甚至拖拽，他们无法将其从脑海中抹去。
Now, there could be all sorts of reasons related to each and all of us why we can't get it out of our head, work that we need to do, et cetera.
现在，可能有各种各样的原因与我们每个人相关，为什么我们无法摆脱我们的头脑，我们需要做的工作等等。
But according to the map of mental health that you've laid out for us, things that get in the way of that generative drive are really quite poisonous to our well-being and the well-being of the world because that generative drive is about learning, creation, and-
但根据你为我们绘制的心理健康地图，阻碍生成驱动力的事物实际上对我们和世界的福祉非常有害，因为生成驱动力是关于学习、创造和——
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
tends to be pro-social-
往往是亲社会的
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in so many ways.
在很多方面。
Tell us about anger and how, from a frame of reference of trying to engage in self-care, we should think about our anger and work with our anger in ways that can perhaps even help us and not harm us.
告诉我们关于愤怒的事情，以及如何从尝试自我照顾的框架出发，思考我们的愤怒，并以可能帮助我们而不是伤害我们的方式处理我们的愤怒。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
In order to really understand this, and this is so important, we have to define three words.
为了真正理解这一点，而且这一点非常重要，我们必须定义三个词。
Right?
正确的？
And the word to start with is affect.
首先是影响这个词。
So affect is aroused in us, right?
那么我们内心就会产生情感，对吗？
Meaning we don't have control over it.
这意味着我们无法控制它。
So anger is an affect.
所以愤怒是一种情感。
It is aroused in us.
它在我们身上被唤醒。
The idea being that if a person is walking down the street and someone jumps in front of them and shoves them, anger is aroused in them.
这个想法是，如果一个人走在街上，有人跳到他们面前并推搡他们，他们就会激起愤怒。
They don't choose to be angry.
他们不会选择生气。
In fact, the body reacts and has all sorts of fight or flight responses before the person even realizes that they're angry.
事实上，在人们意识到自己生气之前，身体就会做出反应并产生各种战斗或逃跑反应。
So we can't control what is aroused in us in the immediate term.
所以我们无法控制短期内我们内心激起的情绪。
We can in the longer term.
从长远来看，我们可以。
If I have a short fuse and I get angry really easily, I can't really control that in the next 10 minutes, right?
如果我脾气暴躁，很容易生气，那么我在接下来的10分钟内就无法真正控制它，对吗？
Meaning the affect that's aroused in me.
意思是在我身上引起的影响。
I can do different things with it, but I can't change what's created in me.
我可以用它做不同的事情，但我无法改变在我身上创造的东西。
But if I'm living a better life, taking better care of myself, the generative drive is better expressed, I have more pleasure in my life.
但如果我过着更好的生活，更好地照顾自己，生成动力得到更好的表达，我的生活就会有更多乐趣。
Then what happens is the mechanisms that arouse so much anger start to arouse less anger.
然后发生的事情是，激起如此多愤怒的机制开始激起更少的愤怒。
So by taking care of ourselves, we arouse less anger, but anger is aroused in us.
因此，通过照顾好自己，我们会减少愤怒，但愤怒却会在我们内心激起。
Okay, the next word is feeling.
好啦，下一个词是感受。
Right?
正确的？
And again, there are different definitions for these words, but the way we're defining them, affect is aroused.
再说一遍，这些词有不同的定义，但我们定义它们的方式会引起影响。
Feeling is when we take that affect and we relate it to the self.
感觉是当我们接受这种情感并将其与自我联系起来时。
It's the next thing that happens on the way up because the arousal of affect is very deep in the brain.
这是上升过程中发生的下一件事，因为情感的唤起在大脑的深处。
As it comes up, the next thing it does is relate that affect to self.
当它出现时，接下来要做的就是将影响与自我联系起来。
So this is where the classic example of a person who spills something, they are angry that thing is spilled.
这就是一个人洒了东西的典型例子，他们对东西洒了感到愤怒。
It raises anger in them.
这会激起他们的愤怒。
Then they become aware and they match the anger to self and say, "What a dummy." Right?
然后他们就会意识到，他们将愤怒与自己相匹配，并说：“真是个傻瓜。”正确的？
"What a jerk.
“真是个混蛋。
I'll never do anything right." They say it inside, right?
我永远不会做正确的事。”他们内心这么说，对吗？
Because the anger gets enacted against the self.
因为愤怒是针对自我的。
Now, how would we like that to go?
现在，我们希望事情进展如何？
Where the person's taking better care of themselves, so when they spill something, less anger is aroused, and by the time it gets to consciousness, there's less anger, so it's easier to manage, and there's a stronger sense of self.
如果这个人能更好地照顾自己，那么当他们泼洒东西时，就会更少地激起愤怒，而当他们进入意识状态时，愤怒就会减少，因此更容易管理，并且自我意识更强。
All the other aspects of the pillars and the cupboards are in a good place.
柱子和橱柜的所有其他方面都处于良好位置。
Then the person is better able to manage what anger makes it, right, to feeling.
然后，这个人就能够更好地管理愤怒所带来的感受。
And then to say, "Oh Okay, everybody spills something now and then, whatever, and then they clean it up, and the person doesn't have to enact the anger towards themselves.
然后说，“哦，好吧，每个人都会时不时地洒一些东西，不管怎样，然后他们会把它清理干净，这个人就不必对自己表现出愤怒。
So affect, feeling, and then emotion.
所以影响，感觉，然后是情感。
So emotion is when we relate the affect and the feeling to others in the world around us.
因此，情感是指我们将情感和感受与周围世界的其他人联系起来。
So for example, a person might spill something and then it arouses anger, and now they get to the feeling part, but they have a set of unhealthy defenses, and they don't think they're responsible for things they're responsible for, so they just keep that load of anger, that affect, upwards until they get to emotion, and then they decide, "That wasn't my fault, it was yours." And that's why maybe they kick the dog, or they slap somebody, or they say something mean.
举例来说，一个人可能洒了一些东西，然后激起了愤怒，现在他们进入了感觉部分，但他们有一套不健康的防御机制，他们认为自己不对自己负责的事情负责，所以他们只是保持愤怒的负担，这种影响，向上，直到他们情绪激动，然后他们决定，“那不是我的错，这是你的。”这就是为什么他们可能会踢狗，或者打别人耳光，或者说一些刻薄的话。
This happens.
会发生这种情况。
So it happens a lot.
所以这种事经常发生。
This is part and parcel of what's going on in us a lot about negative emotions.
这是我们身上发生的许多负面情绪的重要组成部分。
There can be dramatic examples, but there's smaller examples that are winding their way through our lives.
可能有戏剧性的例子，但也有一些较小的例子正在我们的生活中蜿蜒前行。
And the better we take care of ourselves, the less aroused negative affect we have, and the better we cope with it when it gets to the level of the I and when it gets to the level of the you.
我们对自己照顾得越好，我们所引起的负面影响就越少，当它达到“我”的水平和“你”的水平时，我们就能更好地应对它。
And if we think about pro-social, collaborative behaviors versus the inaction of anger on a large scale.
如果我们考虑亲社会、协作行为与大规模的愤怒无所作为。
If by the time it gets to you, there's still a lot of anger there, it is very easy to then paint with a broad brush.
如果当它到达你的时候，仍然有很多愤怒，那么就很容易用大画笔来描绘。
Oh, the problems are that demographic.
哦，问题在于人口。
The problems are those people who aren't like me.
问题在于那些与我不同的人。
That's where anger is at its most dangerous.
这就是愤怒最危险的地方。
So the idea of having the negative affect under control, having the understanding and the control mechanisms, keeps us from getting to that broader level, the level of you, and then working in ways that are not pro-social, but are anti-social.
因此，控制负面影响、拥有理解和控制机制的想法，使我们无法达到更广泛的水平，即你的水平，然后以不亲社会、而是反社会的方式工作。
And this, I think, also relates to what we can find online.
我认为这也与我们在网上可以找到的内容有关。
We can find online everything we can find in the world.
我们可以在网上找到世界上能找到的一切。
So then we have a choice.
那么我们就有一个选择。
Are we going to work on understanding what choices are we going to make about how we're engaging in the world?
我们是否要努力了解我们将如何参与这个世界？
And if we're choosing the good things, we're taking better care of ourselves and we're better citizens of our relationships, of our family units, and ultimately of our societies.
如果我们选择好的事物，我们就能更好地照顾自己，我们就能成为人际关系、家庭乃至社会的更好公民。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've observed anger directed my way.
我观察到愤怒正朝着我的方向发展。
Certainly, I'm far from perfect.
当然，我还远未达到完美。
I have thousands of flaws, and I've directed anger towards others in ways that I wish I hadn't.
我有数以千计的缺点，而且我曾以一种我希望没有的方式向他人发泄愤怒。
A common observance I've had about myself and others is that when angry, a lot of valuable time is wasted.
我对自己和他人的一个普遍看法是，当生气时，很多宝贵的时间都会被浪费。
Instead of placing my efforts within the generative drive-
而不是把我的努力放在生成驱动力上——
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
creating things that I really value, the anger becomes an immense distraction.
创造我真正重视的东西时，愤怒就会成为一种巨大的干扰。
And I've seen this a lot, not just on university campuses, but one place I have seen it is when I was a graduate student or postdoc.
我已经见过很多这种情况了，不仅是在大学校园，而且我在研究生或博士后的时候也见过这种情况。
There would be some interaction, either between them in the laboratory I was in, although rarely, but more often it was about some interaction between a student or postdoc and someone in the outside world.
在我所在的实验室里，他们之间会有一些互动，虽然很少，但更常见的是学生或博士后与外界的某人之间的一些互动。
And so they'd come in and they'd be really upset about it, and there's a tendency to try and support one another, which I think is healthy.
所以他们进来后会对此感到非常沮丧，并且有一种尝试互相支持的倾向，我认为这是健康的。
But then it was like this would just continue and continue, and the person would be sitting in their chair, it was really upsetting.
但接下来就好像这样一直持续下去，而那个人会坐在他们的椅子上，这真的很令人沮丧。
And sometimes these were really upsetting occurrences that warranted taking some time and just really stopping.
有时这些事情确实令人不安，需要花一些时间并真正停止。
But often I felt like things just kept spiraling up and spiraling up, and it's like halfway through the day.
但我常常感觉事情一直在螺旋式上升，螺旋式上升，就像一天已经过半了。
And again, I'm not immune from this, but I observed it more than I felt it, certainly.
再说一遍，我也不能幸免，但我观察到的东西比我感受到的要多，这是肯定的。
It's like, wow, that's a lot of time wasted.
就像，哇，浪费了很多时间。
Just days or perhaps even weeks and months.
只需几天，甚至几周和几个月。
And then there's the sleep loss that goes with anger.
此外，愤怒还会导致睡眠不足。
I think that's one of the things about social media and online communities that's new and unique is that it used to be when kids went home from school or we go home from work, something might have happened there, but you didn't have access to more incoming.
我认为社交媒体和在线社区的新颖和独特之处在于，过去当孩子们放学回家或我们下班回家时，可能会发生一些事情，但你无法获得更多的信息。
People weren't calling you on the phone telling you things that you don't like or talking about others in ways that you don't like.
人们不会在电话里告诉你一些你不喜欢的事情，或者以你不喜欢的方式谈论别人。
Whereas all you have to do now is pick up social media, and if you're not really deliberate in how you interact with social media and on the internet and which news articles you read and which ones you scroll past, that could be accessible at 2:00 in the morning when you're up about the thing that was angering you during the day.
而你现在所要做的就是使用社交媒体，如果你没有真正考虑如何与社交媒体和互联网互动，以及阅读哪些新闻文章以及滚动浏览哪些新闻文章，那么在凌晨 2:00 当你为白天惹恼你的事情而起床时，就可以访问这些内容。
That is new and requires elevated levels of diligence.
这是新的，需要更高水平的勤奋。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Right.
对。
High levels of anger bring volatility and confusion, and that doesn't serve anyone or anything well.
高度的愤怒会带来波动和混乱，这对任何人或任何事都没有好处。
Lower levels of anger can be healthy.
较低水平的愤怒可能是健康的。
I'm angry at that and I want to try and make it right, or I'm angry at that and I'm going to have my say in it, or I'm going to have my vote in it, or whatever it may be.
我对此感到愤怒，我想尝试纠正它，或者我对此感到愤怒，我将对此发表意见，或者我将对此进行投票，或者无论是什么。
Lower levels of anger are okay.
较低程度的愤怒是可以的。
They can inform us, they can guide our behaviors.
他们可以通知我们，可以指导我们的行为。
But when we get to high levels of anger, it's volatility and confusion.
但当我们的愤怒达到高度时，就会出现波动和混乱。
The person ceases to then be effective.
这个人就不再有效了。
And here's an example.
这是一个例子。
When you were telling me about how you feel when you're doing the solo podcast and how your agency and your gratitude are really in action, and you're feeling the peace and you're delighted, and the generative drive is at the fore in you.
当你告诉我你在做个人播客时的感受，以及你的能动性和你的感激之情如何真正发挥作用时，你感受到了平静，你感到高兴，并且生成动力在你体内处于领先地位。
And then I had said, "What if we add a little bit of anger, even?" And then your response was like, "Oh, it would all come offline." Because there you're doing something that calls for you to really be at your best, firing on all cylinders, so even a little bit of anger is too much.
然后我说：“如果我们再加一点愤怒呢？”然后你的反应就像是，“哦，这一切都会离线。”因为你正在做的事情需要你真正处于最佳状态，全力以赴，所以即使是一点点愤怒也太过分了。
But it's a good example because it shows you're able to do this thing that is so good for you.
但这是一个很好的例子，因为它表明你有能力做这件事，这对你来说非常有好处。
You're living in the place.
你住在那个地方。
If you could have all of existence be like you feel then, you would love it.
如果你能让所有的存在都像你当时的感觉一样，你会喜欢它的。
You could bring it to all the rest of your life.
你可以把它带到你的余生。
That's the nirvana we're going for, and you're actively living it.
这就是我们所追求的涅槃，而你正在积极地活在其中。
But we could throw it off and ruin it with even a little bit of anger.
但我们甚至可以用一点点愤怒就把它扔掉并毁掉它。
So it's an example that kind of models for us how higher levels of anger cause problems in situations that are not so rarefied as that.
所以这是一个例子，为我们提供了模型，在不那么罕见的情况下，更高水平的愤怒如何导致问题。
High levels of anger, maybe somebody blurting out, somebody attacking somebody, somebody saying something they shouldn't, somebody making a bad decision.
高度愤怒，也许有人脱口而出，有人攻击某人，有人说了不该说的话，有人做出了错误的决定。
Anger isn't good for us at high levels, and we can decrease it by making ourselves healthier.
高水平的愤怒对我们没有好处，我们可以通过让自己更健康来减少愤怒。
Then we make less of it, and we control it better, and we keep ourselves at the low to moderate levels of anger, hopefully low.
然后我们减少愤怒，更好地控制它，我们将自己的愤怒保持在低到中等水平，希望是低水平。
Again, no anger is not good.
再说一遍，不生气是不好的。
High anger is not good.
愤怒过高是不好的。
Let's try and live in the low range.
让我们尝试生活在低范围内。
Occasionally, something is very distressing, we rise up to moderate.
有时候，有些事情很令人苦恼，我们就会上升到温和的程度。
That's where we have anger in a healthy place.
这就是我们在健康的地方有愤怒的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When we set out on this journey to explore what is mental health, I had no expectation that you would deliver to us this incredible map of how to explore our inner territory and that you would spell out such crisp and clear ideals of states and ways of being and things to access.
当我们踏上探索什么是心理健康的旅程时，我没想到您会向我们提供这张令人难以置信的地图，说明如何探索我们的内部领域，并且您会阐明如此清晰明了的状态理想、存在方式和访问事物。
Nor did I know anything about the generative drive and the other drives that reside within us.
我对生成内驱力和我们体内的其他内驱力一无所知。
In thinking about self-care, and in thinking about the sorts of things that people are challenged with often, I made out a little list.
在思考自我保健以及人们经常面临挑战的事情时，我列出了一个小清单。
Not just anger, but things like scared, embarrassed, grieving, dejected, tired, confused, stuck.
不仅仅是愤怒，还有害怕、尴尬、悲伤、沮丧、疲倦、困惑、卡住等情绪。
And then I wrote, "infinite number of these," right?
然后我写了“无数个这样的”，对吧？
There have to be an infinite number of challenges that people face, an infinite number of circumstances, and perhaps even an infinite combination of those things that people face and circumstances that can make it all seem like a giant oppressive cloud within us and around us.
人们必须面临无数的挑战，无数的环境，甚至可能是人们面临的这些事情和环境的无限组合，这些因素可能使我们内部和周围的一切看起来像一片巨大的压迫云。
And yet what you've provided is really a path of clarity, because it's a path that certainly includes a lot of complexity down in those pillars at the bottom, the structure of self, function of self.
然而，你所提供的确实是一条清晰的道路，因为这条道路肯定在底部的支柱、自我的结构、自我的功能中包含了很多复杂性。
But you've directed us toward looking into that complexity, looking into those cupboards, as a way to arrive at answers that bring us toward more simplicity.
但你引导我们研究这种复杂性，研究那些橱柜，以此作为获得答案的一种方式，使我们变得更加简单。
Empowerment, humility, agency, gratitude, peace, contentment, delight, and this incredibly attractive thing, the generative drive, that is really accessible to any and all of us.
赋权、谦逊、能动性、感恩、平和、满足、喜悦，以及这种令人难以置信的吸引力，即生成动力，我们所有人都可以真正获得。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
It's there in every one of us.
它存在于我们每个人的内心。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In providing this path of clarity, and again, I want to remind people that whether or not you feel you're doing well in life, maybe even in all domains of life, or whether or not you're experiencing challenge in any or perhaps even all domains of life, going into those cupboards is clearly of immense value, and you've so graciously spelled out how we can do that, regardless of resources really.
在提供这条清晰的道路时，我想再次提醒人们，无论你是否觉得自己在生活中做得很好，甚至在生活的所有领域，或者无论你是否在生活的任何甚至所有领域遇到挑战，进入这些橱柜显然都具有巨大的价值，而且你非常慷慨地阐明了我们如何做到这一点，无论资源如何。
It sounds like all it requires is a desire to be better and feel better and do better, and a willingness to explore.
听起来，它所需要的只是渴望变得更好、感觉更好、做得更好，以及探索的意愿。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Curiosity, right?
好奇心，对吧？
If I had to summarize the whole thing in two words, I would say be curious.
如果我必须用两个词来概括整个事情，我会说好奇。
Right?
对吗？
Because curious opens the door to all of it.
因为好奇为这一切打开了大门。
Curiosity about self, curiosity about life, leads to all the good things.
对自我的好奇心，对生活的好奇心，会带来一切美好的事物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, what you've given us is of immense value.
嗯，你给我们的东西是非常有价值的。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's something that I know that I and many, many other people are going to take on as a positive set of goals.
我知道我和许多其他人都会将其作为一套积极的目标。
Not just for immense challenges, but really for always, right?
不仅仅是为了巨大的挑战，而是为了永远，对吧？
For living forward and understanding the past.
为了向前生活并理解过去。
Never before have I been presented with something that felt like it had as much power and potency to do good as this.
我从来没有见过这样的东西，感觉它有如此大的力量和效力来做善事。
So-
所以——
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Oh, that's great.
哦，那太好了。
I'm happy to hear that.
我很高兴听到这个消息。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, it's absolutely true, and I really want to thank you on behalf of myself and everybody else for sharing with us your time, your intellect, your willingness to build this structure specifically for this series.
嗯，这绝对是真的，我真的想代表我自己和其他所有人感谢您与我们分享您的时间、您的智慧以及您专门为本系列构建此结构的意愿。
And it, for lack of a better word, it's so generative.
而且，由于缺乏更好的词，它是如此富有创造力。
It's -
这是——
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm sure that people will have tons of questions and tons of experiences of their own to share in terms of using this, and they can share that with us.
我确信人们在使用它时会有大量的问题和大量的经验可以分享，他们可以与我们分享。
And that's one of the wonderful things about podcasts is they can put those to the comments on YouTube or elsewhere, but really the comments on YouTube would be the place to share those questions and comments and feedback.
播客的美妙之处之一是他们可以将这些内容添加到 YouTube 或其他地方的评论中，但实际上 YouTube 上的评论将是分享这些问题、评论和反馈的地方。
And perhaps going forward, we can explore the self, the psyche, relationships, and ways to improve all of that and our lives going forward.
也许展望未来，我们可以探索自我、心灵、人际关系以及改善所有这些和我们未来生活的方法。
Dr. Paul Conti:
保罗·康蒂博士：
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
This has been great.
这太棒了。
It's been invigorating and fun, and thank you so much.
这是令人振奋和有趣的，非常感谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion all about true self-care with Dr. Paul Conti.
感谢您今天与我一起与 Paul Conti 博士讨论真正的自我保健。
This marks the ending of the fourth episode in our four-episode series all about mental health with Dr. Conti.
这标志着我们与康蒂博士一起讨论心理健康的四集系列剧的第四集的结束。
You can access each of the episodes by going to hubermanlab.com, where it's linked out to all formats.
您可以访问 hubermanlab.com 来访问每一集，该网站提供了所有格式的链接。
And regardless of whether or not you have now completed or you are still in the process of digesting the material from this series, I hope you found it to be as enriching and as useful in your life as I have.
无论您现在是否已经完成或仍在消化本系列的内容，我希望您发现它与我一样丰富且有用。
And on behalf of myself and Dr. Conti, I want to thank you again for your time and attention.
我谨代表我自己和康迪博士，再次感谢您的时间和关注。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请在 Spotify 和 Apple 上订阅该播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests that you'd like me to consider hosting on the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问或对您希望我考虑在 Huberman Lab 播客上主持的播客或嘉宾有意见，请将这些意见放在 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
And if you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all platforms.
如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有平台上的 hubermanlab。
So that's Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, Threads, and Facebook.
这就是 Instagram、Twitter、LinkedIn、Threads 和 Facebook。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlap with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the content of the Huberman Lab podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容不同。
So again, it's hubermanlab on all social media channels.
再说一次，所有社交媒体渠道上都是 hubermanlab。
Not on today's episode, but on many previous episodes of the Huberman Lab podcast, we discuss supplements.
不是在今天的节目中，而是在 Huberman Lab 播客的许多之前的节目中，我们讨论了补充剂。
While supplements aren't necessary for everybody, many people derive tremendous benefit from them, for things like enhancing sleep, for hormone support, and for focus.
虽然补充剂并不是每个人都需要的，但许多人都从它们中获得了巨大的好处，例如增强睡眠、激素支持和注意力集中。
If you'd like to see the supplements discussed on the Huberman Lab podcast, you can go to Live Momentous, spelled O-U-S, so it's livemomentous.com/huberman.
如果您想查看 Huberman Lab 播客上讨论的补充内容，您可以访问 Live Momentous，拼写为 O-U-S，即 livemomentous.com/huberman。
If you haven't already subscribed to our newsletter, it is a zero-cost newsletter called the Neural Network Newsletter, and in the Neural Network Newsletter, you get free podcast summaries as well as toolkits.
如果您还没有订阅我们的时事通讯，这是一份名为“神经网络时事通讯”的零成本时事通讯，在神经网络时事通讯中，您可以获得免费的播客摘要和工具包。
The toolkits are brief PDFs that list off the specific science-backed protocols for things like improving your sleep, improving focus, optimizing dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
这些工具包是简短的 PDF，列出了具体的科学支持的方案，例如改善睡眠、提高注意力、优化多巴胺、故意冷暴露等。
We have a complete summary of our fitness series.
我们对健身系列有一个完整的总结。
Again, all available, completely zero cost.
再次强调，一切可用，完全零成本。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu, scroll down to Newsletter, and provide your email to sign up.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，进入菜单，向下滚动到时事通讯，然后提供您的电子邮件即可注册。
We do not share your email with anybody.
我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you for joining me and Dr. Paul Conti for today's episode.
感谢您接受我和 Paul Conti 博士今天的节目。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。