Guest Series | Dr. Andy Galpin: Maximize Recovery to Achieve Fitness & Performance Goals

嘉宾系列| Andy Galpin 博士：最大限度地恢复以实现健身和表现目标

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Welcome to the Huberman Lab Guest Series, where I and an expert guest discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

欢迎来到胡伯曼实验室嘉宾系列，我和一位专家嘉宾讨论了日常生活中的科学和基于科学的工具。

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

Today's episode is the fifth in a six-episode series on fitness, exercise, and performance.

And today's episode is all about recovery.

今天的节目是关于康复的。

That is, how to maximize your recovery to achieve your fitness and exercise and performance goals, and how to avoid over-training.

Dr. Andy Galpin, great to be back.

安迪·加尔平博士，很高兴回来。

Today, we're discussing recovery, and I'm very excited to have this discussion because, as we know, despite the fact that different types of exercise can be used to trigger different types of adaptation, such as increased long-distance endurance, anaerobic capacity, strength, hypertrophy, et cetera, the workouts themselves are not actually when the progress occurs, when the adaptation occurs.

今天，我们正在讨论恢复，我很高兴能进行这次讨论，因为正如我们所知，尽管不同类型的锻炼可以用来触发不同类型的适应，例如增加长距离耐力、无氧能力、力量、肥大等，但锻炼本身并不是真正发生进步、适应发生的时间。

And this, to me, is extremely interesting because it parallels what we see with so-called neuroplasticity, which is the nervous system's ability to change in response to experience.

对我来说，这非常有趣，因为它与我们所看到的所谓的神经可塑性相似，即神经系统根据经验而变化的能力。

We sit down to learn something, we experience something, and that is the trigger for rewiring of the nervous system.

But the actual rewiring occurs away from the experience or the learning.

但实际的重新布线是在远离经验或学习的情况下进行的。

So too, in fitness and in exercise, recovery is where the real results actually emerge, where we get better.

同样，在健身和锻炼中，恢复才是真正的结果真正显现的地方，也是我们变得更好的地方。

So I'd love for you to explain what recovery really is and the different types of recovery, certainly different ways to enhance recovery.

因此，我很乐意向您解释什么是真正的恢复以及不同类型的恢复，当然还有促进恢复的不同方法。

And I'd also love for you to explain whether or not there are ways that people can become better at recovering, because if indeed recovery is when progress emerges, when we get better, well, then anything that supports our recovery and gets us better at recovering ought to increase our rate and our degree of progress.

我也希望你能解释一下是否有办法让人们变得更好地恢复，因为如果恢复确实是在进步出现时，当我们变得更好时，那么任何支持我们恢复并让我们更好地恢复的东西都应该提高我们的进展速度和程度。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Absolutely.

绝对的。

You nailed it in the description.

你把它钉在描述里了。

What people really want is some sort of change, whether we're talking athletes or general population, this change is some sort of improvement in muscle function, reduction in body fat, higher functioning metabolism, whatever the case is.

人们真正想要的是某种变化，无论我们谈论的是运动员还是普通大众，这种变化是肌肉功能的某种改善，体内脂肪的减少，新陈代谢的提高，无论如何。

And the only way that happens is we talk about the equation of stress causes adaptation, but as you alluded to, the piece in the middle is only if you can recover from it.

发生这种情况的唯一方法是我们谈论压力导致适应的方程，但正如你所提到的，中间的部分只有当你能够从中恢复时。

And so the game we're playing here is we all agree we want more adaptation.

That means we need to bring more stress into the system.

这意味着我们需要给系统带来更多压力。

But we then have to ensure that our recovery outpaces the stress input, or else no adaptation will occur.

In fact, what happens is you will actually be in a negative spot and start going backwards.

事实上，发生的情况是你实际上会处于消极的境地并开始倒退。

And so what I would love to do is talk about how we've handled this, and I've had a decent amount of experience here.

因此，我想做的就是谈论我们如何处理这个问题，而且我在这里拥有丰富的经验。

I was fortunate enough to do my master's degree in the laboratory of a gentleman named Andy Fry, who's an NSCA Lifetime Achievement Award winner.

我很幸运能够在一位名叫安迪·弗莱 (Andy Fry) 的实验室里攻读硕士学位，他是 NSCA 终身成就奖获得者。

And he studied, in large part, recovery, over-training, overuse, overload, in a lot of areas.

他在很大程度上研究了许多领域的恢复、过度训练、过度使用、超负荷。

In addition, I've been fortunate enough to work with individuals from high-functioning CEOs and executives who have little time for recovery, high job stress, to athletes.

此外，我很幸运能够与一些人一起工作，从缺乏时间恢复、工作压力很大的高职能首席执行官和高管，到运动员。

And think of the example of pitchers in Major League Baseball who have to recover in a matter of four days so that they can pitch again at maximum velocity.

想想美国职业棒球大联盟的投手的例子，他们必须在四天内恢复，以便他们能够以最大速度再次投球。

So I would love to outline some of the tools and tactics, strategies that we use for all these individuals, give you some foundational stuff.

And I would love to maybe actually cover some things that most people have never heard of, some stuff you may not have access to, some technologies that we use, some biomarkers, and then even a whole bunch of things that are, keeping with the theme of your show here, cost-free or extremely low cost.

我很想实际上涵盖一些大多数人从未听说过的东西，一些你可能无法接触到的东西，我们使用的一些技术，一些生物标记物，甚至还有一大堆与你的节目主题一致的免费或极低成本的东西。

So all those strategies.

所以所有这些策略。

What I'd also like to do is cover nutrition and supplementation and fueling and hydration and things, but that's probably going to have to be saved for an additional conversation that we'll do in the next episode.

我还想做的是涵盖营养、补充、补充能量、补水等内容，但这可能必须留到我们下一集中进行的额外对话中。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yes.

是的。

So we will absolutely hold a conversation about nutrition and supplementation, where you can educate us about all the top contour stuff, all the way down to the fine details.

因此，我们绝对会就营养和补充剂进行对话，您可以在其中向我们介绍所有顶级轮廓的内容，一直到细节。

I do have a question about recovery, and it's one that I think most people are familiar with themselves, which is soreness.

我确实有一个关于恢复的问题，我想大多数人都熟悉这个问题，那就是酸痛。

We think of it as muscle soreness, but I was trained early on in my scientific career to always question the seemingly obvious.

我们认为这是肌肉酸痛，但我在科学职业生涯的早期就接受过训练，总是质疑看似显而易见的事情。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Mm.

嗯。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So a couple of questions about soreness.

那么有几个关于疼痛的问题。

First of all, what does soreness really reflect?

首先，酸痛到底反映了什么？

Is it really muscle soreness?

真的是肌肉酸痛吗？

It feels like it's in the muscles.

感觉就像在肌肉里一样。

But what other organ systems and tissues and cell types does it involve?

但它还涉及哪些其他器官系统、组织和细胞类型？

And then I'm particularly interested in this concept or this experience that many of us, including myself, have had, which is delayed onset muscle soreness.

然后我对这个概念或我们许多人（包括我自己）所经历过的经历特别感兴趣，这就是延迟性肌肉酸痛。

Why would it be that when we are less in shape or when we perform a movement that is extremely novel to us, the soreness seems to arrive after a reasonable delay of maybe even a day.

为什么当我们的体形较差或当我们进行一项对我们来说极其新奇的动作时，酸痛似乎在合理的延迟甚至一天后才出现。

We're fine the next day, but then 48 hours later, we are exceedingly sore.

第二天就没事了，但 48 小时后，我们感到非常酸痛。

And as we get more fit or more familiar with the movement, the soreness seems to arrive earlier.

当我们变得更加健康或更熟悉运动时，酸痛似乎会更早到来。

So I realize I just asked you about three questions or more.

所以我意识到我只是问了你三个或更多问题。

First of all, what is muscle soreness at a cellular level?

首先，什么是细胞水平上的肌肉酸痛？

Which cells, which organ systems, and so forth.

哪些细胞、哪些器官系统等等。

What does it mean if we are sore?

如果我们感到疼痛，这意味着什么？

Is something I know we'll get into a little bit later.

我知道我们稍后会讨论这个问题。

And then why the delayed onset muscle soreness?

那么为什么会延迟出现肌肉酸痛呢？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

It's actually one question.

这其实是一个问题。

So it's totally fine you asked all three, because I'm going to actually answer number three, which will answer number two, which will actually answer number one.

所以你问这三个问题完全没问题，因为我实际上要回答第三个，它实际上会回答第二个，它实际上会回答第一个。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'd love to tell you that I set it up that way intentionally.

我很想告诉你，我是故意这样设置的。

But I'm just happy to hear that where I was unable to be concise, you are able to be concise.

但我很高兴听到我无法简洁的地方，你能够简洁。

Thank you.

谢谢。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

We are still learning a lot about this area.

关于这个领域，我们仍然有很多了解。

It's actually really difficult to perform these studies.

进行这些研究实际上非常困难。

Anytime you ask a question about something like pain Or soreness.

每当您询问有关疼痛或酸痛等问题时。

You're immediately talking about perception.

你马上就在谈论感知。

And there is obviously a physical component to that, but then there's also perception.

显然这有物理成分，但也有感知。

And so teasing those things out is extraordinarily challenging.

因此，弄清楚这些事情是非常具有挑战性的。

That said, there has been a lot of work in this area.

也就是说，这方面已经做了很多工作。

And in fact, probably you may have a show already out on pain, or maybe one's coming down the road.

事实上，你可能已经有一个关于痛苦的节目了，或者可能即将推出一个节目。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We did an episode on pain a while ago, but it's definitely time to revisit that literature.

不久前我们做了一集关于疼痛的节目，但现在绝对是重新审视这些文献的时候了。

I also have some amazing colleagues at Stanford who work on pain, both from the cellular and molecular side, but also from the psychological side about how our understanding of pain and what we believe about pain shapes the experience of pain and pain relief.

我在斯坦福大学还有一些出色的同事，他们从细胞和分子方面研究疼痛，还从心理学方面研究我们对疼痛的理解以及我们对疼痛的看法如何塑造疼痛和疼痛缓解的体验。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Amazing.

太棒了。

That stuff is incredibly important, and I'm glad we flagged that, and maybe we'll just call that good for now.

这些东西非常重要，我很高兴我们标记了这一点，也许我们现在就称其为好。

They can come back later for another one of your shows.

他们可以稍后再回来观看您的另一场演出。

So that being said, why does it happen 28 to 48 hours after you exercise?

话虽这么说，为什么会在运动后 28 至 48 小时发生呢？

Well, that actually should give you some clues into what's happening.

嗯，这实际上应该给你一些关于正在发生的事情的线索。

So the traditional dogma of delayed onset muscle soreness, is what this is called, is that it is a result of, quote-unquote, "micro tears" in the muscle.

因此，延迟性肌肉酸痛的传统教条就是所谓的，它是肌肉中“微撕裂”的结果。

And so you can sort of think, I challenged the muscle, there were some small tears in there, and I'm feeling the result of that.

所以你可以想，我挑战了肌肉，那里有一些小眼泪，我感受到了结果。

Well, in fact, that certainly does happen, and it can happen.

嗯，事实上，这确实会发生，而且有可能发生。

That is not what's explaining your muscle soreness.

这并不能解释你的肌肉酸痛。

And in fact, you can be quite sore from exercise and have no measurable amount of muscle damage.

事实上，您可能会因运动而感到非常酸痛，并且没有明显的肌肉损伤。

And so much like anything else, when we're in this idea of pain, it's not a one-to-one explanation.

就像其他事情一样，当我们处于这种痛苦的想法中时，它不是一对一的解释。

There are multiple factors that are probably causing your perception of pain.

有多种因素可能会导致您感觉到疼痛。

Muscle damage can be one of them.

肌肉损伤可能是其中之一。

It is not the only one, and it is probably, in my opinion, though this is yet to be shown definitively, probably not even the leading cause of it.

它不是唯一的一个，在我看来，它可能是，尽管这还没有明确表明，甚至可能不是其主要原因。

And so what's actually happening?

那么到底发生了什么？

Well, the reason it's taking you 24 to 48 hours is you can actually find various papers, literature reviews dating back a number of years now, over a decade, that show these wonderful curves of an inflammatory, an immune response.

嗯，之所以要花 24 到 48 小时，是因为你实际上可以找到各种论文、文献评论，可以追溯到几年前、十几年前，它们显示了炎症和免疫反应的美妙曲线。

And we don't need to necessarily go through the entire physiology right now.

我们现在不需要了解整个生理学。

But effectively what's happening is those things have a little bit of a time delay.

但实际上发生的事情是这些事情有一点时间延迟。

And so some of those steps happen immediately, like right when the exercise is there, and then some of them are delayed six to 24 to 48 hours.

因此，其中一些步骤会立即发生，例如在进行练习时立即发生，然后其中一些步骤会延迟 6 至 24 至 48 小时。

If you know a little bit about this physiology, you have a combination of neutrophils and macrophages and a bunch of things happening, and this has a time sequence.

如果你对这种生理学有一点了解，你就会发现中性粒细胞和巨噬细胞的组合以及一系列正在发生的事情，并且这是有时间顺序的。

So what happens is by the time we get to this 28- to 48-hour window, now the muscle soreness kicks in.

所以，当我们到达 28 到 48 小时的窗口时，肌肉就会开始酸痛。

Which, wait a minute, if this was a result of my muscles being torn and that happened immediately, wouldn't that pain start immediately?

其中，等等，如果这是肌肉撕裂造成的，而且是立刻发生的话，那不是立刻就会疼痛吗？

Well, the answer is it would.

嗯，答案是会的。

And so that is your first clue that that's not responsible for it.

所以这是你的第一个线索，表明这与此无关。

When we look at that immune response and we see that that is actually peaked 24 to 48 hours later, and then that's the same time the pain kicked in, that's cluing you in at the problem.

当我们观察免疫反应时，我们发现它实际上在 24 至 48 小时后达到峰值，然后疼痛开始出现，这就是您解决问题的线索。

So we have this immune response happening and inflammation.

所以我们会发生这种免疫反应和炎症。

Then all of a sudden, we start getting fluid accumulation.

然后突然之间，我们开始积液。

And now there are what are called nociceptors, and obviously you're very familiar with these, and these are your pain receptors.

现在有所谓的伤害感受器，显然你对它们非常熟悉，这些就是你的疼痛感受器。

What's actually interesting is we don't necessarily know a lot of information about how many pain receptors are in muscle.

实际上有趣的是，我们不一定知道有关肌肉中有多少疼痛感受器的大量信息。

They're not really in the belly.

它们并不是真的在肚子里。

In fact, this is why I can perform my muscle biopsies and they don't really hurt.

事实上，这就是为什么我可以进行肌肉活检，而且它们并没有真正造成伤害。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You mean in the belly of the muscle?

你是说腹部的肌肉吗？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Correct.

正确。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

We do have pressure sensors, though.

不过，我们确实有压力传感器。

And so if you change the volume of the tissue, you will respond to that very, very quickly.

因此，如果你改变组织的体积，你会非常非常快地做出反应。

So by enhancing swelling in the actual muscle, that is immediately putting pressure on those pressure receptors, if you will.

因此，如果你愿意的话，通过增强实际肌肉的肿胀，就会立即对这些压力感受器施加压力。

That's the signal.

这就是信号。

So what's probably happening here, and I just hate to give you another bone, but a lot of delayed onset muscle soreness is probably just a neural feedback loop rather than it is actual muscle damage.

那么这里可能发生了什么，我只是不想给你另一块骨头，但很多延迟性肌肉酸痛可能只是一个神经反馈循环，而不是实际的肌肉损伤。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, makes a lot of sense.

是的，很有道理。

There's a lot of interactions between the types of neurons that control touch sensation and pain sensation and itch sensation.

控制触觉、痛觉和痒觉的神经元类型之间有很多相互作用。

In fact, a lot of people kind of collapse itch and pain together.

其实很多人都有种痒和痛一起崩溃的感觉。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Bingo, yeah.

宾果游戏，是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That something is painful and it itches is a familiar thing for people, mosquito bites and such.

让人痛、痒的东西对于人们来说是再熟悉不过的事情了，蚊虫叮咬之类的。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And of course, there's the classic gate theory of pain-

当然，还有经典的痛苦门理论——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

which people will be familiar with, and then I'll explain why I'm explaining this.

人们会熟悉这些，然后我将解释为什么我要解释这一点。

Which is if something hurts, you bonk your knee or you stub your toe, we tend to grab that body part and try and rub it.

也就是说，如果有什么东西受伤了，比如你撞到了膝盖或者撞到了脚趾，我们就会抓住身体的那个部位并尝试揉搓它。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And that rubbing is not a coincidental thing.

而那次摩擦并不是偶然的事情。

It activates a set of touch sensors that respond to kind of broad, dull touch, and that actively inhibits, through the release of an inhibitory neurotransmitter, the fibers that control the pain signal.

它激活一组触摸传感器，对广泛、迟钝的触摸做出反应，并通过释放抑制性神经递质主动抑制控制疼痛信号的纤维。

So anytime we rub a charley horse our leg or we stub our toe and we wince and then we grab the toe and we kind of like squeezing it a little bit, that's actually deactivating or partially inactivating the pain mechanism.

因此，每当我们摩擦查理马的腿或撞到脚趾时，我们就会皱起眉头，然后抓住脚趾，有点像挤压它一点，这实际上是在停用或部分停用疼痛机制。

So the idea that a swelling response would then trigger a neural response that then would recruit the pain receptor response, here I'm using broad brush strokes here to explain this, makes very good sense to me.

因此，肿胀反应会引发神经反应，然后神经反应会招募疼痛受体反应，在这里我用粗略的笔触来解释这一点，这对我来说非常有意义。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now and only now that you've explained how this process works.

现在您已经解释了这个过程是如何工作的。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I can actually even add more to that.

实际上我什至可以添加更多内容。

So if you remember how muscles work, so we have to have some sort of signal from the nervous system that has to actually go in and tell the muscle to contract.

因此，如果您还记得肌肉是如何工作的，那么我们必须从神经系统发出某种信号，该信号必须真正进入并告诉肌肉收缩。

Well, remember a few episodes ago, we covered the physiology here of what's called a motor unit.

好吧，记得前几集，我们在这里介绍了所谓运动单位的生理学。

Okay.

好的。

Well, what I didn't explain to you are called muscle spindles.

好吧，我没有向你解释的是所谓的肌梭。

And we have talked about proprioception in an episode before as well, but we never tied this picture together.

我们之前也曾在一集中讨论过本体感觉，但我们从未将这张照片联系在一起。

So let me walk you through that really quickly, and it's going to tie this loop into a nice bow.

所以让我快速引导您完成这个过程，它将把这个循环打成一个漂亮的蝴蝶结。

So what happens is this motor unit is coming in from what's called an alpha motor unit, and that's going to be innervating your muscle fibers, and that's going to tell the muscle fibers to contract.

所以发生的情况是这个运动单位来自所谓的阿尔法运动单位，这将支配你的肌肉纤维，这将告诉肌肉纤维收缩。

Those are typically spread out throughout all sides of the muscle, interior, exterior, all over.

这些通常分布在肌肉的各个侧面，内部，外部，全身。

On the outside, though, there is another type of muscle called a muscle spindle.

然而，在外部，还有另一种类型的肌肉，称为肌梭。

Now, these are non-contractile, so they don't have that actin and myosin, and they don't produce force.

现在，它们是非收缩性的，因此它们没有肌动蛋白和肌球蛋白，并且它们不产生力。

They are responsive, they are proprioceptive.

他们有反应，有本体感觉。

So what that means is they sense stretch.

所以这意味着他们感觉到拉伸。

And this is why, for example, if you were to stretch a hamstring, stretch any muscle group, it doesn't really matter, or muscle, its innate response is to fire back to close that distance.

这就是为什么，例如，如果你要拉伸腿筋，拉伸任何肌肉群，那么它并不重要，或者肌肉，它的本能反应是回火以接近那个距离。

And this is what keeps you from, say, if you're leaning to the right, you can imagine that the example we give is if you're standing on one foot and you start swaying to the right.

这就是阻止你的原因，比如说，如果你向右倾斜，你可以想象我们给出的例子是，如果你单脚站立，你开始向右摇摆。

All right?

好的？

Let's say you're standing on your right foot, and this makes this easier for folks, and you start swaying to the right like you're going to fall on your right ear will hit the ground.

假设你用右脚站立，这对人们来说更容易，然后你开始向右摇摆，就像你要右耳着地一样。

The inside of your right calf muscle will start being stretched.

右小腿肌肉内侧将开始被拉伸。

The outside will start being compressed, right?

外部将开始被压缩，对吗？

So the stretch on the inside of the right calf muscle will sense that stretch, and it will respond by contracting.

因此，右小腿肌肉内侧的拉伸会感觉到这种拉伸，并且会通过收缩来做出反应。

That pulls you back to the middle and stops you from falling.

这会将你拉回到中间并阻止你跌倒。

That's proprioception, and muscle spindles sense stretch and tell you to contract.

这就是本体感觉，肌梭感知拉伸并告诉你收缩。

The way that they work is through gamma motor neurons, and so these are sensory things.

它们的工作方式是通过伽马运动神经元，因此这些是感觉事物。

So what's happening is, unlike when you tell your muscle to contract, it goes alpha to the muscle, contract.

所以发生的情况是，与你告诉你的肌肉收缩不同，它对肌肉产生α作用，收缩。

These muscle spindles work such that it is, "Oh, I've been stretched," sends signal back to some central point, typically in the spinal cord, and we don't actually want to go all the way up to the brain.

这些肌梭的工作原理是，“哦，我被拉伸了”，将信号发送回某个中心点，通常是脊髓，而我们实际上并不想一直到达大脑。

We've got a time delay.

我们有时间延迟。

This is why these are subconscious, autonomic, right?

这就是为什么这些是潜意识的、自主的，对吗？

Versus somatic.

与躯体相对。

So the gamma is going to go back to the central location and then come back through the alpha motor neurons and tell it to contract.

因此，伽玛将回到中心位置，然后通过阿尔法运动神经元返回并告诉它收缩。

So you have this wonderful mechanism of sensing stretch, going back.

所以你就有了这种奇妙的机制来感知拉伸、返回。

Well, one theory that's been put forward regarding muscle damage is that the pressure is actually being applied to those nerve endings of the muscle spindles.

嗯，关于肌肉损伤提出的一种理论是，压力实际上施加到了肌梭的神经末梢上。

And that's actually responsible for the pain signal that's going back and coming up to your brain, and you're registering that as pain rather than it is actually in the contractile units, so the muscle fibers.

这实际上是疼痛信号返回并到达你的大脑的原因，你将其记录为疼痛，而不是实际上在收缩单位（即肌肉纤维）中。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's a very intriguing idea, because it would suggest that stretching muscles in order to alleviate soreness might be the exact incorrect thing to do.

这是一个非常有趣的想法，因为它表明拉伸肌肉以减轻酸痛可能是完全错误的做法。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Now, I'm not saying that for certain.

现在，我并不是肯定地说。

I'm just building off the mechanistic logic that we've laid out here.

我只是在构建我们在这里提出的机械逻辑。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Really, that you've laid out here.

真的，你已经放在这里了。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

There is a-

有一个-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The-

该-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

...

more effective principle based on exactly that, which is this is generally why low-level movement is effective at reducing acute soreness.

更有效的原则正是基于此，这就是为什么低强度运动可以有效减轻急性疼痛的原因。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because that's low-level contraction of the muscles.

因为那是肌肉的低水平收缩。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

And you're going to contract-

而你要签订合同——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Anti-stretch

抗拉伸

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

...

and get tissue out, and you're going to get fluid out.

拿出纸巾，液体就会流出来。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Wow.

哇。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

You're literally pumping it out of the cell.

你实际上是把它从细胞中抽出来。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yes, and in our previous episode where we were talking about programming, or I keep using the we, but let's be fair here, where you were educating-

是的，在我们上一集中我们谈论编程，或者我一直使用“我们”，但让我们公平地说，你正在教育的地方 -

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

us, including me, and the audience about different structures for programming exercise for specific adaptations, et cetera, the month, week, year scales, et cetera.

我们，包括我，以及观众，了解针对特定改编等的编程练习的不同结构，月、周、年尺度等。

We had a brief discussion about the fact that if one trains legs very hard with resistance training, some heavy squatting or deadlifting it-

我们简短地讨论了这样一个事实：如果一个人通过阻力训练、一些大重量的深蹲或硬拉来非常努力地训练腿部——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

and there's some soreness, that oftentimes doing some "lighter cardio" or some low impact work the next day or any number of different things that involve not high-intensity contractions of the muscles, but that do require contractions of the muscles, that it can alleviate soreness more quickly than if one were to simply lie around and watch Netflix or something.

还有一些酸痛，通常会在第二天做一些“较轻的有氧运动”或一些低影响的工作，或者任何不涉及高强度肌肉收缩的不同事情，但确实需要肌肉收缩，它可以比简单地躺着看Netflix或其他东西更快地缓解酸痛。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

That's exactly right.

完全正确。

To go back just a little bit as well, if that's really the case, the question is where is this inflammatory signal coming from?

回过头来说，如果真是这样的话，问题是这种炎症信号从何而来？

And while there's much to be learned there, there is a little bit of information right now that suggests it's potentially coming from free radicals released from the mitochondria.

虽然那里有很多东西需要学习，但现在有一些信息表明它可能来自线粒体释放的自由基。

Again, that may or may not hold up as more research comes.

同样，随着更多研究的到来，这种说法可能成立，也可能不成立。

I'm not sure.

我不知道。

But if you remember back to our conversation on endurance, so we talked about the electron transport chain and aerobic metabolism, and regardless of whether or not you're getting energy from glycolysis or carbohydrates, remember, they have to be finished through aerobic metabolism.

但如果你还记得我们关于耐力的谈话，我们谈到了电子传递链和有氧代谢，无论你是否从糖酵解或碳水化合物中获取能量，请记住，它们都必须通过有氧代谢来完成。

So even if you're lifting weights and you're using carbs for your fuel, you have got to finish that metabolism by running it into the mitochondria and performing oxidative metabolism.

因此，即使您正在举重并且使用碳水化合物作为燃料，您也必须通过将其运行到线粒体并进行氧化代谢来完成新陈代谢。

As a result of that, that electron transport chain runs.

结果，电子传输链开始运行。

So theoretically, if free radicals, which are hyper-reactive oxygen species.

因此从理论上讲，如果自由基是高活性氧。

Basically, they're oxygen molecules that are missing an electron so that they react to a lot of things.

基本上，它们是缺少电子的氧分子，因此它们会对很多东西发生反应。

They're the opposite of antioxidants, by the way.

顺便说一句，它们与抗氧化剂相反。

This is the oxygen molecules with extra protons, so they can balance the charge.

这是带有额外质子的氧分子，因此它们可以平衡电荷。

If those leak out, that in and of itself is going to be a massive inflammatory signal, and that's probably what signals the cause of these neutrophils and macrophages and kicks off this entire cascade.

如果这些泄漏出来，其本身将成为一个巨大的炎症信号，这可能是这些中性粒细胞和巨噬细胞产生的信号，并启动整个级联反应。

Again, I believe we need more research there.

再说一遍，我相信我们需要更多的研究。

I need to look into it.

我需要调查一下。

Maybe it's more definitive than I know.

也许它比我知道的更明确。

But that's probably what's happening, potentially what's happening rather, that causes that cascade and signal.

但这可能就是正在发生的事情，甚至可能正在发生的事情，导致了级联和信号。

Also, what you have is this combination of, well, if that's the case, why am I not getting tremendous amount of muscle damage when I do more aerobic-based exercise?

另外，你所拥有的是，好吧，如果是这样的话，为什么当我进行更多有氧运动时，我没有受到巨大的肌肉损伤？

Well, because you don't have the mechanical tension pulling on the fibers that's actually causing damage to the cell wall that allows these free radicals to escape the mitochondria and the cell wall.

嗯，因为没有机械张力拉动纤维，而机械张力实际上会对细胞壁造成损害，从而使这些自由基逃离线粒体和细胞壁。

So that's the best we can postulate at this moment as to why those things are happening, and then why, again, low-level exercise tends to enhance even things like percussion.

因此，这就是我们目前所能做出的最好的假设，解释为什么这些事情会发生，以及为什么低水平的锻炼甚至会增强打击乐之类的东西。

So using either instruments that put a low level of vibration into your leg or like Pneumatic boots, so you can massage.

因此，可以使用对腿部施加低振动的仪器或气动靴之类的仪器，以便进行按摩。

All these things are generally probably helping because they're moving that stuff out, edema most specifically, so pressure comes off of those nerve endings and the muscle spindles and allows you to stop receiving that signal of pain, despite the fact that you didn't actually regenerate tissue at all yet.

所有这些东西通常都可能有所帮助，因为它们正在将这些东西排出，特别是水肿，因此压力会从这些神经末梢和肌梭上消失，并使您停止接收疼痛信号，尽管事实上您实际上根本没有再生组织。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Fascinating, and I think that beautifully frames where we're headed next, which is to talk about all the different modes of recovery and how to accelerate them, and perhaps even how to combine different forms of recovery in order to become better at recovering, and in doing so, make faster progress with fitness.

很有趣，我认为这很好地框架了我们下一步的发展方向，那就是讨论所有不同的恢复模式以及如何加速它们，甚至可能如何结合不同形式的恢复以便更好地恢复，并在此过程中在健身方面取得更快的进步。

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is also separate from Dr. Andy Galpin's teaching and research roles at Cal State Fullerton.

它也与安迪·加尔平博士在加州州立大学富勒顿分校的教学和研究职位分开。

It is, however, part of our desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我们希望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。

In keeping with that theme, we'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

为了与这个主题保持一致，我们要感谢今天播客的赞助商。

Our first sponsor is Momentous.

我们的第一个赞助商是 Momentous。

Momentous makes supplements of the absolute highest quality.

Momentous 生产绝对最高品质的补充剂。

"The Huberman Lab" podcast is proud to be partnering with Momentous for several important reasons.

“The Huberman Lab”播客很荣幸能够与 Momentous 合作，原因有几个。

First of all, as I mentioned, their supplements are of extremely high quality.

首先，正如我提到的，他们的补充剂质量非常高。

Second of all, their supplements are generally in single-ingredient formulations.

其次，他们的补充剂通常采用单一成分配方。

If you're going to develop a supplementation protocol, you're going to want to focus mainly on using single-ingredient formulations.

如果您要制定补充方案，您将主要关注使用单一成分配方。

With single-ingredient formulations, you can devise the most logical and effective and cost-effective supplementation regimen for your goals.

通过单一成分配方，您可以为您的目标设计出最合理、最有效且最具成本效益的补充方案。

In addition, Momentous supplements ship internationally, and this is, of course, important because we realize that many of "The Huberman Lab" podcast listeners reside outside the United States.

If you'd like to try the various supplements mentioned on "The Huberman Lab" podcast, in particular, supplements for hormone health, for sleep optimization, for focus, as well as a number of other things, including exercise recovery, you can go to Live Momentous, spelled O-U-S, so that's livemomentous.com/huberman.

如果您想尝试“The Huberman Lab”播客中提到的各种补充剂，特别是激素健康补充剂、睡眠优化补充剂、集中注意力补充剂，以及运动恢复等其他一些补充剂，您可以访问 Live Momentous，拼写为 O-U-S，即 livemomentous.com/huberman。

Today's episode is also brought to us by LMNT.

今天的节目也是LMNT给我们带来的。

LMNT is an electrolyte drink that contains the exact ratios of the electrolytes sodium, magnesium, and potassium to optimize cellular functioning for mental and physical performance.

LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，含有精确比例的电解质钠、镁和钾，可优化细胞功能，从而提高精神和身体表现。

Most people realize that hydration is key.

大多数人都意识到水分是关键。

We need to ingest enough fluids in order to feel our best and perform our best.

我们需要摄入足够的液体才能感觉最好并表现最好。

But what most people do not realize is that the proper functioning of our cells and nerve cells, neurons in particular, requires that sodium, magnesium, and potassium be present in the correct ratios.

但大多数人没有意识到，我们的细胞和神经细胞（特别是神经元）的正常运作需要钠、镁和钾以正确的比例存在。

Now, of course, people with pre-hypertension and hypertension need to be careful about their sodium intake.

当然，现在高血压前期和高血压患者需要注意钠的摄入量。

But what a lot of people don't realize is that if you drink caffeine, if you exercise, and in particular, if you're following a very clean diet, that is not a lot of processed foods, which of course is a good thing, chances are you're not getting enough sodium, potassium, and magnesium to optimize mental and physical performance.

LMNT contains a science-backed ratio of 1,000 milligrams, that's one gram of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, and 60 milligrams of magnesium, and no sugar.

LMNT 的含量经科学证实为 1,000 毫克，即 1 克钠、200 毫克钾和 60 毫克镁，不含糖。

If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt, that's L-M-N-T.com/huberman, to get a free LMNT sample pack with your purchase.

如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt（即 L-M-N-T.com/huberman），在购买时获得免费的 LMNT 样品包。

Again, that's drinklmnt, L-M-N-T.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.

再次强调，请通过 Drinklmnt、L-M-N-T.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。

Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep.

今天的节目也是八觉给我们带来的。

Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.

August Sleep 生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能的智能床垫套。

I've been using an Eight Sleep mattress cover for about the last eight months, and it has completely transformed my sleep.

在过去的八个月里，我一直使用八睡眠床垫套，它彻底改变了我的睡眠。

I'm sleeping about the same amount, but I'm sleeping far deeper, and I'm now getting the proper ratios of so-called rapid eye movement or REM sleep and slow-wave sleep, and waking up feeling far more recovered mentally and physically.

我的睡眠时间大致相同，但睡得更深，而且我现在得到了所谓的快速眼动睡眠或快速眼动睡眠和慢波睡眠的适当比例，醒来时感觉精神和身体都恢复得更好。

The underlying mechanism for all that is very straightforward.

所有这一切的基本机制都非常简单。

I've talked many times before on this podcast and elsewhere about the critical relationship between sleep and body temperature.

我之前曾在这个播客和其他地方多次谈论过睡眠和体温之间的重要关系。

That is, in order to fall asleep at night, your body needs to drop by about one to three degrees in terms of core body temperature, and waking up involves a one to three-degree increase in core body temperature.

也就是说，为了在晚上入睡，你的身体需要将核心体温下降约一到三度，而醒来则需要核心体温升高一到三度。

With Eight Sleep mattress covers, you can adjust the temperature of your sleeping environment to be one temperature at the start of the night, a different temperature in the middle of the night, and a different temperature as you approach morning, each of which can place you into the optimal stages of sleep and have you waking up feeling more refreshed than ever.

借助八睡眠床垫套，您可以将睡眠环境的温度调节为夜晚开始时的一种温度、半夜时的不同温度以及临近早晨时的不同温度，每种温度都可以让您进入最佳睡眠阶段，让您醒来时感觉比以往更加神清气爽。

If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, you can go to eightsleep.com/huberman and check out their Pod 3 cover and save $150 at checkout.

如果您想尝试八睡眠，您可以访问八睡眠.com/huberman 并查看他们的 Pod 3 封面，并在结帐时节省 150 美元。

Eight Sleep currently ships in the USA, Canada, United Kingdom, select countries in the EU, and Australia.

八睡眠目前在美国、加拿大、英国、欧盟部分国家和澳大利亚发货。

Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman to save $150 at checkout.

再次强调，八睡眠网站/huberman 可以在结账时节省 150 美元。

So to kick off this discussion about recovery, and with the understanding that recovery is when the specific adaptations to exercise actually occur, I'd love for you to share with us what happens or needs to happen during recovery in order for us to get better at anything, endurance, strength, et cetera, but also how specific types of exercise stimuli and specific types of adaptations that we trigger, so running a bit further, lifting a bit more weight, slowing the cadence of a given movement, et cetera, how those specific types of triggers for adaptation relate to the specific or maybe similar types of recovery that are required for us to make progress.

So to kick off this discussion about recovery, and with the understanding that recovery is when the specific adaptations to exercise actually occur, I'd love for you to share with us what happens or needs to happen during recovery in order for us to get better at anything, endurance, strength, et cetera, but also how specific types of exercise stimuli and specific types of adaptations that we trigger, so running a bit further, lifting a bit more weight, slowing the cadence of a given movement, et cetera, how those specific types of适应的触发因素与我们取得进展所需的特定或类似类型的恢复有关。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

In one of our previous episodes, we were talking about how the Harvard Fatigue Lab really identified this idea of homeostasis, or at least sort of championed it for it.

And that's important because in all levels, physiology wants to return to homeostasis.

这很重要，因为在各个层面上，生理学都希望恢复体内平衡。

So what happens in terms of adaptation is you've challenged it to a level that it realizes if it does not make a change, it will not be able to get back to a same level of homeostasis.

That's fundamentally what's happening.

这就是根本上正在发生的事情。

That is recovery.

那就是恢复。

That process of taking an insult, being temporarily reduced in functionality, causing a change so that now we come back and get what we often call in sport performance super compensation.

All that really is doing, though, is bringing you to a new level of homeostasis.

然而，真正要做的只是将你的体内平衡提升到一个新的水平。

Effectively, it is understanding if that same insult comes again I need to be able to make sure that that doesn't cause the same level of disruption.

And so we raise the bar, whether this is enhancing our ability to take the same level of mechanical tension on the muscle and not result in micro-damage, whether this is being able to take the same reduction in energy and not have that compromise of sleep or anything.

That's really fundamentally changing so that we can have a new level of homeostasis because it's presuming, it's predicting that that same insult is going to come again down the road.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I wanted to clarify for people that when Dr. Galpin says insult, while he may actually insult me, insult is the nerd speak terminology for some sort of damage inflicted to a tissue or system.

So, he's speaking about the insult to the muscle or insult to the neuromuscular connection created by adding more weight to the bar, running a further distance, running a bit fast or pedaling faster.

That creates a micro insult or an insult.

这会造成微侮辱或侮辱。

And now because everyone is familiar with psychological and verbal insults-

现在因为每个人都熟悉心理和言语侮辱——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Fair

公平

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

you'll never forget that biological concept.

你永远不会忘记那个生物学概念。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

It's important we tag another thing here, which is called hormesis.

重要的是我们在这里标记另一件事，称为毒物兴奋效应。

It's one of my favorite phenomenon, and it effectively means this, that there is a dosage or toxicity response to almost everything.

这是我最喜欢的现象之一，它实际上意味着几乎所有东西都有剂量或毒性反应。

And if you think about this in the context of, say, drugs, what this means is if I gave you 10 milligrams of something, that it would be okay.

如果你在毒品的背景下思考这个问题，这意味着如果我给你 10 毫克的东西，那就没问题了。

But if I gave you 20, it'd be a problem.

但如果我给你20，那就有问题了。

And eventually if I go up and give you enough, this thing turns toxic.

最终，如果我上去给你足够的东西，这东西就会变成有毒的。

This is a case of everything from cyanide, where it can actually be in small dosages in nature.

这是氰化物的一个例子，实际上氰化物在自然界中的剂量很小。

In fact, it's in many of the fruits that you eat, but it's at a dosage that it doesn't matter.

事实上，您吃的许多水果中都含有它，但剂量并不重要。

If that dosage gets higher though, that actually can cause problems, and if it is high enough, it can actually kill you instantaneously.

如果剂量变得更高，实际上会引起问题，如果剂量足够高，它实际上会立即杀死你。

The back end of that, though, is because you introduced this micro insult, as you framed it for me perfectly, your body will then adapt to it.

然而，其后端是因为你引入了这种微侮辱，当你完美地为我设计它时，你的身体就会适应它。

And that's really what's happening with exercise adaptation is it is a hormetic stressor.

这确实是运动适应所发生的事情，它是一种激素应激源。

And why that's important is if you look at the immediate responses to exercise, you see an extremely large increase in inflammation.

为什么这很重要，因为如果你观察运动后的即时反应，你会发现炎症急剧增加。

You see oxidative stress.

你会看到氧化应激。

You see a whole cascade of autophagy, like all these problems, quote-unquote, happening.

你会看到一连串的自噬，就像所有这些问题一样，不断发生。

And what's actually quite funny here is as a part of my PhD, the academic portion, I had to go through the medical side of the school.

实际上非常有趣的是，作为我的博士学位的一部分，即学术部分，我必须经历学校的医学方面。

And so my physiology class was in med school, so I'm the only non-medical doctor in that class.

所以我的生理学课是在医学院，所以我是该班唯一的非医学博士。

I'm a PhD, so I leave my lab, I walk across campus, and I take physiology class with these folks.

我是一名博士，所以我离开实验室，穿过校园，和这些人一起上生理学课。

And I died the whole time internally because every time we would cover a new area, it was basically the exact same value or number.

我一直在内心死去，因为每次我们覆盖一个新区域时，它基本上都是完全相同的值或数字。

In a medical setting, it's like, "Oh my gosh, they're going to die." And in performance setting, it's like, "This person's in fantastic shape." It still amuses me to this day, obviously, because it's just simple things like total blood volume, right?

在医疗环境中，就像是，“天哪，他们就要死了。”在表演环境中，就像是，“这个人的身材棒极了。”显然，直到今天我仍然觉得很有趣，因为这只是像总血量这样简单的事情，对吧？

And you cover like, okay, if you have a patient come in and their blood volume is six liters, you immediately get them on a diuretic of some sort because they're going to have a heart attack as blood pressure gets up.

你会说，好吧，如果你有一个病人进来，他们的血容量是六升，你会立即让他们服用某种利尿剂，因为随着血压升高，他们会心脏病发作。

And I'm immediately thinking, "Damn, six liters.

我立即想到，“该死，六升。

That person is super fit." Because that is actually a positive adaptation to training.

那个人身材超级好。”因为这实际上是对训练的积极适应。

It's one of the most important, if not the most important adaptation to endurance training, is enhanced total blood volume.

总血容量的增加，即使不是对耐力训练最重要的适应，也是最重要的适应之一。

So you'll store more blood in your body when you're more fit than you are less fit.

因此，当您身体健康时，您体内会储存更多的血液，而不是身体健康状况不佳时。

So I could go on.

所以我可以继续。

All these things, sodium concentrations, potassium concentrations are like you look at these things on paper and you don't know if that person's about to die because they're 65 years old and out of shape, or if that person's going to break a world record in the marathon.

所有这些东西，钠浓度、钾浓度，就像你看着纸上的这些东西，你不知道那个人是否即将死去，因为他们已经 65 岁并且体形不佳，或者那个人是否会打破马拉松世界纪录。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This brings up a very important tangent, which is, for instance, if you go and take a blood test and you are somebody who exercises very intensely, with resistance training, your blood creatinine levels can be-

这就引出了一个非常重要的切线，例如，如果您去进行血液检查，而您是一个进行非常剧烈运动的人，通过阻力训练，您的血肌酐水平可能是-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

哦

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

way out of range.

超出范围。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And if your physician doesn't know that you're doing certain forms of exercise, might say, "Wow, there's a lot of muscle tissue damage occurring in your body."

如果您的医生不知道您正在进行某些形式的锻炼，可能会说：“哇，您体内发生了很多肌肉组织损伤。”

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

As you mentioned before, your total blood volume is dangerously high.

正如您之前提到的，您的总血容量非常高。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

When in fact you are far healthier and indeed much fitter than the person whose numbers would be in range.

事实上，你比那些在这个范围内的人健康得多，而且确实更健康。

That said, obviously there are limits to these statements whereby you would want to be cautious, and take action to ameliorate a very elevated blood creatinine level or something of that sort.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

This is-

这是——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But the point you're bringing up is also one about the field of medicine, which is that many, not all, but many physicians don't take into consideration the outside activities that people are doing, and so it becomes a kind of plug and play type way of looking at blood charts.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

We've done many thousand athletes' blood chemistry, and we don't use-- First of all, we never look at disease stuff.

我们已经对数千名运动员进行了血液化学分析，但我们不使用——首先，我们从不研究疾病的东西。

That's not what we do.

那不是我们做的。

We take people that are healthy and try to optimize performance.

我们招募健康的人并尝试优化绩效。

And blood chemistry is one of the best tools.

血液化学是最好的工具之一。

If you really understand what you're doing there, you can get some incredibly powerful information out of blood chemistry.

如果您真正了解自己在做什么，您就可以从血液化学中获得一些非常强大的信息。

That actually relates to what we're going to talk to today, in terms of measuring everything from acute to chronic dehydration to sleep deprivation can be identified in blood chemistry to optimization, improvements in nutrition supplementation.

There's just a lot you can get there.

If people are interested in that field, I would point them to a gentleman named Dan Garner, who's just an absolute juggernaut and wizard in blood chemistry for high performance.

But you can get a ton of information from that.

If you understand the difference between exactly what you talked about, looking for signals of increased risk of cardiovascular events 25 years down the road versus is this the optimal value for high performance in an athlete, which is what our database and all of our software and stuff does is only looking for those things.

如果您准确理解您所说的内容之间的区别，则寻找 25 年后心血管事件风险增加的信号与运动员高水平表现的最佳值之间的区别，这就是我们的数据库和所有软件和东西所做的只是寻找这些东西。

So I'm going to talk about some of the biomarkers to look for a little bit later, salivary stuff, some blood stuff, but we'll maybe save that part of the conversation for down the road.

因此，我稍后将讨论一些要寻找的生物标记物，例如唾液物质、一些血液物质，但我们可能会将这部分谈话保留到以后。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Tell me about different timescales of recovery

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Sure.

当然。

This is actually where I was trying to answer your question before, and then I got myself way off track.

这实际上是我之前试图回答你的问题的地方，然后我就偏离了轨道。

But the reason I brought up the hormetic thing is, if you understand that some things in the acute, say, 24 to 48-hour period, look terrible, it's actually fine.

So this is the stimuli that's causing adaptation.

所以这就是引起适应的刺激。

So the reason I brought up the medical exchange there is because, if you looked at inflammatory markers, and then you mentioned some of them, you would see that they are highest acute within seconds to minutes to hours after exercise.

所以我提出医疗交流的原因是，如果你观察炎症标志物，然后提到其中一些标志物，你会发现它们在运动后几秒到几分钟到几小时内最为严重。

However, that's exactly the stimuli needed to bring them down chronically.

然而，这正是长期降低它们所需的刺激。

Okay?

好的？

And so chronically meaning maybe in that moment, they are elevated, and then maybe they're coming down 24 hours later, in 48 hours.

所以长期来说，也许在那一刻，它们会升高，然后可能会在 24 小时后、48 小时内下降。

However, if you were to compare your resting level, say, that Monday before you worked out, to your resting level that Monday, the week following, the week following that, what you would probably see is your baseline inflammation goes down.

然而，如果您将锻炼前的周一的静息水平与周一、下周、再下周的静息水平进行比较，您可能会看到基线炎症有所下降。

And so we've got to be really careful.

所以我们必须非常小心。

Are we talking immediately post-exercise?

Man, these markers look terrible.

Maybe my recovery score is awful, et cetera.

也许我的恢复分数很糟糕，等等。

That's not necessarily a bad thing, because what we're looking to do is to not only change what's happening today, but we're trying to cause adaptation that may take us weeks or months to actually access.

这不一定是坏事，因为我们要做的不仅是改变今天正在发生的事情，而且我们正在努力进行适应，这可能需要我们几周或几个月的时间才能真正实现。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I love that you're highlighting this principle because one of the more obvious ones to me now that you've said this is heart rate.

我喜欢你强调这一原则，因为你已经说过，心率是对我来说最明显的原则之一。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Absolutely.

绝对的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If my heart rate goes very, very high during exercise, and I do that fairly consistently or even semi-consistently-

如果我的心率在运动过程中变得非常非常高，并且我相当持续甚至半持续地这样做-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

my resting heart rate will actually be quite a bit lower.

我的静息心率实际上会低很多。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

That's a fantastic example.

Really what you're getting at here is this concept where I think it's important to differentiate between adaptation and optimization.

实际上，您在这里得到的是这个概念，我认为区分适应和优化很重要。

Now, we hear that word, and I use it, and most scientists hate it, but it's a good communication tool, optimization.

现在，我们听到这个词，我也使用它，大多数科学家讨厌它，但它是一个很好的沟通工具，优化。

If you're optimizing for the current moment, you're almost surely compromising delayed adaptation.

如果你针对当前时刻进行优化，那么几乎肯定会损害延迟适应。

Right?

正确的？

If I were to say, "Do the thing right now that makes you feel the absolute best in the world," and you're like, great, you took a nap and you ate a donut, awesome.

如果我说，“现在做一件让你感觉世界上最好的事情”，你会说，太棒了，你小睡了一会儿，吃了一个甜甜圈，太棒了。

You feel amazing.

你感觉棒极了。

But you know it's causing long-term issues.

The same can be said on the back end.

If you're never choosing things that make you better right now, you're never actually going to see any adaptation.

如果你现在不选择让你变得更好的事情，你实际上永远不会看到任何适应。

So what we're really doing with this recovery conversation is playing this game of balancing immediate gratification with delayed gratification.

因此，我们在这次恢复对话中真正要做的就是玩这个平衡即时满足感和延迟满足感的游戏。

And how do we identify how much to do now versus not?

我们如何确定现在该做什么和不该做什么？

How do I use a value or a marker, whether this is how tired I feel today, how sore I am today, or this is a score on an app or a tracking metric, whether this is a blood marker, anything, and understand if that's what I need to cause the adaptation I want a week, a month, three months from now.

我如何使用值或标记，无论这是我今天感觉有多累，今天有多酸，或者这是应用程序或跟踪指标的分数，无论这是血液标记，还是任何东西，并了解这是否是我需要的，以便在一周、一个月、三个月后实现我想要的适应。

And in the case of some of our other athletes, it's even up to four years, right?

对于我们其他一些运动员来说，甚至长达四年，对吧？

We're trying to cause adaptations that will get us where we want to get in the Olympics or world championships or World Cup or wherever we're going to be.

我们正在努力进行调整，以使我们能够在奥运会、世界锦标赛、世界杯或任何我们想去的地方达到我们想要的目标。

So that's the framework we have to think about recovery.

这就是我们必须考虑复苏的框架。

We maybe falsely think about it as, I need to maximize my recovery today.

我们可能会错误地认为，我今天需要最大限度地恢复。

And you could do something like take an anti-inflammatory, whether this is a supplementation or a drug, or maybe this is ice.

你可以采取一些措施，比如服用抗炎药，无论是补充剂还是药物，或者可能是冰。

Oh, cool.

哦，酷。

That's great.

那太棒了。

That will enhance your recovery in this moment.

That'll make you feel better today, probably tomorrow.

这会让你今天（也许明天）感觉更好。

But what we know is that blocks the signal for adaptation.

但我们知道这会阻碍适应信号。

So you're not going to get the same results four, six, eight weeks from now.

因此，从现在起四、六、八周后，您将不会得到相同的结果。

So when we talk about recovery, we have to understand what tool am I using and why.

因此，当我们谈论恢复时，我们必须了解我正在使用什么工具以及为什么。

And in order to do that, we have to understand what am I training for and what am I trying to maximize?

为了做到这一点，我们必须了解我训练的目的是什么以及我想要最大化什么？

If I am in the middle of a season with an athlete and we are competing tomorrow, I am going to hedge towards acute recovery.

如果我正处于与一名运动员的赛季中期，并且我们明天要参加比赛，我将采取措施避免急性康复。

Right?

正确的？

Because I have to actuate that performance right now.

因为我现在必须执行那个表演。

If I am starting the off-season, I'm not hedging towards recovery.

如果我开始休赛期，我不会对恢复进行对冲。

I'm actually hedging towards adaptation.

So we're not going to deploy any of these, especially things like, there's evidence that a combination of vitamin C and vitamin E will blunt hypertrophic adaptations because they're anti-inflammatory.

所以我们不会使用任何这些，特别是像这样的东西，有证据表明维生素 C 和维生素 E 的组合会削弱肥大适应，因为它们具有抗炎作用。

They're antioxidants, right?

Other studies have shown maybe they don't have an inhibitory effect.

其他研究表明它们可能没有抑制作用。

They may or may not.

他们可能会也可能不会。

Point is, conceptually, you want to be careful of what you're trying to optimize for, and you have to have that forethought, and that alone is going to dictate your decision-making with whether or not, again, you get in the ice, you do that.

要点是，从概念上讲，你要小心你想要优化的内容，你必须深思熟虑，仅此一点就将决定你的决策，无论你是否再次陷入困境，你都会这样做。

Now, we will cover some tools, like massage, that are pretty fine to use.

现在，我们将介绍一些非常好用的工具，例如按摩。

You don't have to worry about those blocking long-term adaptation.

您不必担心那些阻碍长期适应的因素。

But others, you're going to want to be very careful about.

但其他的，你需要非常小心。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So this principle that you've laid out for us, which is that there's a set of events that occur during exercise that trigger the adaptation, and that sets in motion a number of adaptations that occur during recovery that then give us the exact opposite response to what the trigger was.

因此，您为我们提出的原则是，锻炼期间发生的一系列事件会触发适应，并启动恢复期间发生的许多适应，然后给我们与触发因素完全相反的反应。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Exactly.

正是如此。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So I'll go back to the heart rate example.

Heart rate is close to maximal or maximal.

You do that enough times within a week or so, or two weeks, and your resting heart rate goes down.

您在一周左右或两周内这样做了足够多次，您的静息心率就会下降。

As I recall, a few episodes ago, you said that your maximum heart rate doesn't really change that much.

我记得，几集前，你说你的最大心率并没有真正改变那么多。

Is that correct?

这是正确的吗？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yes.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay.

好的。

But your resting heart rate can go down quite a bit.

但您的静息心率可能会下降很多。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Is that a general theme?

这是一个普遍的主题吗？

Meaning, do we have a more or less set upper limit or ceiling for things like inflammatory markers, for heart rate, maybe even things like stress?

意思是，我们是否对炎症标记物、心率、甚至压力等因素或多或少设定了上限或上限？

And what we do when we deliberately trigger stress or a dramatic increase in heart rate or dramatic increase in inflammatory markers, is that we are lowering the floor, but that the ceiling remains the same?

当我们故意引发压力或心率急剧增加或炎症标记物急剧增加时，我们所做的就是降低下限，但上限保持不变？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

It's very dependent upon the marker.

So in the case of maximum heart rate, it will not change With the exception of one thing, which is age.

所以在最大心率的情况下，它不会改变，除了一件事，那就是年龄。

Age brings it down.

年龄让它下降。

Training will not change it up in most circumstances.

在大多数情况下，培训不会改变它。

If you look at something like an inflammatory response, I suppose theoretically there is a ceiling, though I'm not aware of it.

如果你看看炎症反应之类的东西，我想理论上是有上限的，尽管我并没有意识到这一点。

I can tell you right now, looking at blood markers, the things like creatine kinase.

我现在可以告诉你，通过观察血液标记物，比如肌酸激酶。

So remember the conversation about metabolism and that we use phosphocreatine as one of our primary fuel sources for explosive exercise.

因此，请记住有关新陈代谢的对话，以及我们使用磷酸肌酸作为爆发力运动的主要燃料来源之一。

Well, if we're using phosphocreatine, this creatine kinase, now remember, kinase are enzymes that function to break things down for the most part.

好吧，如果我们使用磷酸肌酸，这种肌酸激酶，请记住，激酶是一种酶，其功能是分解大部分物质。

So creatine kinase is the enzyme you use to break down creatine.

因此，肌酸激酶是用来分解肌酸的酶。

When you do that a lot, then that creatine kinase gets out of muscle and seeps into the blood.

当你经常这样做时，肌酸激酶就会从肌肉中逸出并渗入血液中。

Myoglobin is actually another fantastic marker, by the way.

顺便说一下，肌红蛋白实际上是另一个很棒的标记。

If you think about hemoglobin being in blood as the molecule that carries oxygen around, when it's in the muscle tissue, then it's myoglobin, myo meaning muscle, and it's the same globulin thing.

如果你认为血液中的血红蛋白是携带氧气的分子，那么当它在肌肉组织中时，它就是肌红蛋白，myo 意思是肌肉，它是相同的球蛋白。

So there's a bunch of markers you can look at muscle breakdown, and one of the things that you can see is a creatine kinase level that's elevated after, say, one bout of exercise, and it might be up five or sixfold.

因此，您可以通过一系列标记来观察肌肉分解情况，您可以看到的其中一个是肌酸激酶水平，例如在一轮运动后会升高，并且可能会上升五倍或六倍。

I've actually seen this number in offensive linemen in the NFL be something like 500 plus fold.

事实上，我在 NFL 的进攻线锋中看到这个数字大约有 500 多倍。

So even within just one category to the next, that number can get extraordinarily high.

因此，即使只是在一个类别到另一个类别内，这个数字也可能会变得非常高。

This is actually one important point here.

这实际上是这里的一个重要点。

If you're paying attention to any mechanistic research or you're using that to inform your decision-making, you have to be extraordinarily careful of magnitude.

如果你正在关注任何机制研究或者你正在利用它来为你的决策提供信息，那么你必须格外小心。

And what I mean by that is if I were to be running a western blot looking at a signaling protein in a muscle, did this activation of this protein turn on mitochondrial biogenesis?

我的意思是，如果我要运行蛋白质印迹来观察肌肉中的信号蛋白，这种蛋白质的激活是否会开启线粒体生物发生？

And I saw that whatever intervention we gave it, whether it was a nutrition thing or a drug or an exercise, and I saw that that signaling protein increased by 20%, I would basically assume that to be totally physiologically irrelevant.

我看到无论我们给予什么干预，无论是营养、药物还是锻炼，我看到信号蛋白增加了 20%，我基本上认为这在生理上完全无关。

Because in order for that to be important, it totally depends on the marker you're looking at, but some markers I might need to see four, five, six hundred fold increase before I know that that will actually be enough to be what we call physiologically relevant.

因为为了让它变得重要，它完全取决于你所看到的标记，但有些标记我可能需要看到四、五、六百倍的增加，然后我才知道这实际上足以成为我们所说的生理相关性。

Others, if they're up 1% or 2%, that is relevant.

其他的，如果上涨 1% 或 2%，那就是相关的。

And so you really want to be careful when you're either reading papers or looking at social media stuff.

因此，当您阅读论文或查看社交媒体内容时，您确实要小心。

If people are just talking about this marker increased this much, it may not matter.

如果人们只是谈论这个标记增加了这么多，那可能并不重要。

It may be totally irrelevant physiologically.

这在生理上可能完全无关。

That's also if you're wondering, like, "How the hell are all these people...

如果你想知道，“这些人到底是怎么...

" Well, that's how they can trick you a little bit.

“嗯，这就是他们可以欺骗你的方式。

Intentionally or not.

有意或无意。

Could be just they're trying to do their best, but they don't really understand that area enough.

可能只是他们试图尽力而为，但他们对这个领域还不够了解。

And so that's an important point to pay attention to.

所以这是需要注意的重要一点。

So to answer your question again fully, it would be hard to determine if there is truly a maximum level.

因此，再次全面回答您的问题，很难确定是否真的存在最高水平。

Some things don't want to move, like blood pH.

有些东西不想移动，比如血液 pH 值。

It doesn't really want to move.

它其实并不想动。

The range that you're going to move from is 6.8 to 7.4, and if you get up to 7.9, like-

您要移动的范围是 6.8 到 7.4，如果您达到 7.9，就像-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You're in trouble

你有麻烦了

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

...

you're probably in big, big, big trouble.

你可能遇到了很大很大的麻烦。

Other things, again, can go up 500, 5,000 fold, and so the markers will really determine that answer.

同样，其他东西可能会上涨 500 倍、5,000 倍，因此标记将真正确定答案。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Well, at some point in the future, I'd love to continue this discussion around the topic of stress specifically.

好吧，在未来的某个时候，我很乐意继续专门围绕压力主题进行讨论。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And maybe we will get into that a little bit later today when we get into the use of deliberate cold exposure, because that certainly has effects related directly to temperature on tissue, but it certainly has mental effects in terms of raising one's level of perceived pain.

也许我们今天晚些时候会讨论这个问题，当我们讨论故意冷暴露时，因为这肯定会对组织产生与温度直接相关的影响，但它肯定会在提高人的感知疼痛水平方面产生精神影响。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

It's fun.

很有趣。

It's also good .

也不错。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Some people love it, and some people love it for the feeling they get during it, deliberate cold exposure.

有些人喜欢它，有些人喜欢它在其中的感觉，故意暴露在寒冷中。

Some people only like it for the feeling that they get after it.

有些人只是因为追求它而得到的感觉而喜欢它。

Not unlike exercise.

与锻炼没什么不同。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I love to train.

我喜欢训练。

I love exercise, but I know many people who loathe exercise, but they love the feeling afterward.

我喜欢运动，但我知道很多人讨厌运动，但他们喜欢运动后的感觉。

So this will be a theme that we will come back to.

因此，这将是我们稍后会讨论的一个主题。

Thank you for indulging my interest in that semi-tangent.

感谢您让我对半切线感兴趣。

I think it's a relevant tangent, if there is such a thing.

如果有这样的事情的话，我认为这是一个相关的切线。

If you can now return us to the different timescales-

如果你现在能让我们回到不同的时间尺度-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep

是的

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

and modes of recovery, because I think where we are headed is how to get better at recovery.

以及恢复方式，因为我认为我们的目标是如何更好地恢复。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep.

是的。

Let's talk about the tools.

我们来谈谈工具。

Let's talk about what to measure and identify for all four of these distinct levels.

让我们讨论一下对于所有这四个不同级别要测量和识别的内容。

So level one is what we call overload, and just very quickly, what that means is I did a workout today.

所以第一级就是我们所说的超负荷，很快，这意味着我今天做了锻炼。

The sign and symptom of overload is you're fatigued, acute performance is down.

超负荷的迹象和症状是您感到疲劳，急性表现下降。

So I worked out hard right now.

所以我现在就努力锻炼。

If I were to go try to do a maximum effort, I would be reduced in my ability.

如果我去尝试尽最大的努力，我的能力就会下降。

The recovery period for acute overload is minutes to days.

急性超负荷的恢复期为几分钟到几天。

Right?

正确的？

That's generally what we call acute overload, and that's what we're looking for, right?

这通常就是我们所说的急性过载，这就是我们正在寻找的，对吗？

So system should theoretically see that hormetic stressor, come back in response, come back bigger, better, more efficient, et cetera.

因此，从理论上讲，系统应该看到毒物刺激应激源，以响应方式返回，以更大、更好、更高效的方式返回，等等。

If you were to continue training in that state, like most of us do, and say I did a workout today, I had a little bit of acute overload.

如果你像我们大多数人一样在这种状态下继续训练，并说我今天锻炼了，我就会有一点严重的超负荷。

Going to work out again tomorrow, a little more acute overload.

明天再去锻炼，有点超负荷。

Going to work out the next day, a little more acute overload.

第二天去锻炼，有点严重超负荷。

Even if you took a day in between, that doesn't matter, right?

即使你中间花了一天时间，那也没关系，对吧？

You just continue these acute bouts of insult.

你只是继续这些剧烈的侮辱。

Then you're going to be pushing into the absolute golden target, which is what we call functional overreaching.

然后你将推动绝对的黄金目标，这就是我们所说的功能性超越。

So you have overreached what you can currently do, and it results in a functional outcome, and what we mean functionally here is performance is enhanced.

And again, performance being whatever you deem it to be.

再说一次，性能就是你认为的任何东西。

You're stronger, you've enhanced muscle size, your mitochondria has improved, whatever the thing is.

你变得更强壮了，你的肌肉增大了，你的线粒体也得到了改善，不管是什么。

It's not just a physical performance thing, right?

这不仅仅是身体表现的问题，对吧？

Amazing.

惊人的。

Recovery time for functional overreaching is typically a few days to maybe even a week or so.

功能过度的恢复时间通常是几天甚至一周左右。

And so typically, what we see happen is prior to a competition, individuals will do what we call a taper, which is a reduced training volume For some short period of time.

因此，通常情况下，我们看到的情况是在比赛之前，个人会进行所谓的“逐渐减量”，即在短时间内减少训练量。

And the reason they do that is to, again, actualize is the phrase we used here, the adaptations.

他们这样做的原因是再次实现我们在这里使用的短语“改编”。

And so you worked hard for six weeks, and theoretically, the workouts you did three, four, five, six weeks ago, once you allow the system to recover, will be actualized, which means your performance will be enhanced here.

So functional overreaching is the golden target.

Okay?

好的？

If you were to be at the point of functional overreaching and you continued to train, so it intensified, whether this was through intensity, this was through volume, or really, as we said earlier, you had something holding back your recovery.

如果你处于功能性过度训练的地步，而你继续训练，那么训练就会加剧，无论是通过强度、通过训练量，还是真的，正如我们之前所说，你都会有一些东西阻碍你的恢复。

It doesn't really matter.

这并不重要。

Right?

正确的？

It's sort of two sides of the same coin.

Then you would move into what we call non-functional overreaching.

然后你就会陷入我们所说的非功能性过度扩张。

So you've overreached again, but now it is non-functional, as in you did not see a positive benefit once recovery allowed.

所以你再次超出了范围，但现在它不起作用了，因为一旦允许恢复，你就没有看到积极的好处。

This typically means you have weeks, it takes weeks to come back from, and you basically just get back to baseline.

这通常意味着你有几周的时间，需要几周的时间才能恢复，而且你基本上只是回到基线。

And this is where a lot of folks are who end up in this vicious cycle.

这就是很多人最终陷入这种恶性循环的地方。

And so you're like, "Man, I'm not getting the results I want.

所以你会说，“伙计，我没有得到我想要的结果。

I'm going to train harder.

I'm not getting the results I want.

I'm going to train harder and harder." But because recovery isn't improved, you just end up in the same spot, so then you train more, and you end up in the same spot, and you end up then just either blowing up or quitting, and you're not getting where you want.

I'm going to train harder and harder."但由于恢复没有改善，你最终会停留在同一个地方，所以你训练更多，你最终会停留在同一个地方，最后你要么爆发，要么退出，而你没有达到你想要的目标。

If you were to continue past that point, you may actually be into what we actually call over-training.

如果你继续超过这个点，你实际上可能会陷入我们所谓的过度训练。

And that typically is considered to be over-trained if it takes months to recover from.

如果需要几个月的时间才能恢复，通常会被认为是过度训练。

So most people think they're over-trained are really not.

所以大多数人认为他们训练过度，但事实并非如此。

You're just probably non-functionally overreached.

您可能只是在功能上超出了范围。

And again, the classic distinction is if you took three or four days off and you felt better, you weren't probably, quote-unquote, "over-trained." You were probably just in this area of non-functional overreaching.

再说一次，典型的区别是，如果你休息了三四天并且感觉好多了，那么你可能没有“训练过度”。您可能只是处于非功能性过度扩张的领域。

You need a little bit of a back off.

If you, and this has been the case, I've had this happen with gymnasts and a cheerleader and some other things, where they take a month off, and we're barely seeing them start to come back to their baseline numbers in any number of areas: mood, desire to train, testosterone, cortisol ratios, biomarkers in a number of areas, physical performance, vertical jump height, all these things.

如果你是这种情况，我在体操运动员和啦啦队长和其他一些事情上就遇到过这种情况，他们休息一个月，我们几乎看不到他们在任何方面开始恢复到他们的基线数字：情绪、训练欲望、睾酮、皮质醇比率、多个领域的生物标志物、身体表现、垂直跳跃高度，所有这些。

They just start to get back to baseline.

So true over-training is actually quite rare.

所以真正的过度训练实际上是很少见的。

Non-functional overreaching is much more common, and it is a shorter timeframe scale.

非功能性过度扩张更为常见，而且时间范围较短。

So when we talk about recovery, those are the four pieces that we're really thinking about.

因此，当我们谈论恢复时，我们真正考虑的是这四个部分。

And so if you are concerned about, "Oh, I'm super sore.

所以如果你担心，“哦，我超级疼。

How do I get less sore?

我怎样才能减轻疼痛？

How do I either not be as sore next time I do that same workout, or I'm super sore, and now how do I recover?" Those are playing in that first category of overload.

下次做同样的锻炼时，我怎样才能不那么酸痛，或者我超级酸痛，现在我该如何恢复？”这些都属于第一类超载。

And we can certainly talk about how to figure that out, but the quick answer is you got to go back to our previous episodes and just pay attention to the volume intensity recommendations.

我们当然可以讨论如何解决这个问题，但快速的答案是你必须回到我们之前的剧集并只注意音量强度建议。

If you're getting significantly more damage or fatigue in a workout, you probably have increased your volume too quickly, or something else is dragging your stress bucket down.

But generally, this is a problem of training.

You either didn't warm up sufficiently, your fueling strategy is off, which we'll talk about in the next episode, or you violated one of our principles of increasing intensity and volume too quickly.

您要么没有充分热身，要么您的补充策略已关闭（我们将在下一集中讨论），要么您违反了我们过快增加强度和训练量的原则之一。

If it's past that, and you're getting to a stage where you're just like, "I'm feeling beat up all the time.

如果过了这个阶段，你就会进入一个阶段，你会说：“我一直感觉很沮丧。

My energy is going down.

我的能量正在下降。

I'm just not feeling like I'm recovered." Now we're in this overreaching stage.

So the story I tell here always is a few years ago, I was working, and my wife, Natasha, was in the garage training.

所以我在这里讲述的故事总是几年前，我正在工作，我的妻子娜塔莎正在车库训练。

And I'm doing something, and she comes stumbling, and she has this look on her eyes, and her eyeballs are giant, and she's just wobbling.

我正在做某事，她跌跌撞撞地走过来，她的眼睛里有这样的表情，她的眼球很大，她只是摇摇晃晃。

And she's like, "I effed up." And I was like, "What do you mean you effed up?" And she's just like, "I read the program wrong." And she's like crying.

她说：“我气坏了。” And I was like, "What do you mean you effed up?" And she's just like, "I read the program wrong."而她就像在哭泣。

I'm like, "What'd you do?" She was supposed to be doing 10 sets of three every minute on the minute, and she did three sets of 10 every minute on the minute, and she was absolutely wrecked.

我说：“你做了什么？” She was supposed to be doing 10 sets of three every minute on the minute, and she did three sets of 10 every minute on the minute, and she was absolutely wrecked.

She couldn't move for a few hours afterwards, and then for days, she's just like, "You have to handle the kids.

之后几个小时她都无法动弹，接下来的几天里，她一直在想，“你必须照顾孩子们。

I can't get out of bed.

我无法起床。

I can't move." So that was a classic example of, all right, we don't need to fix recovery here.

我不能动。”这是一个典型的例子，好吧，我们不需要在这里修复恢复。

You're just a dummy, and you did the training way too hard, too long.

你只是个假人，而且你训练得太辛苦、太久了。

We don't have a problem here.

我们这里没有问题。

So if it's a situation like that, it's generally just the program was way off.

因此，如果出现这样的情况，通常只是程序出了问题。

If it's constantly happening, where you're just like, "Man," for whatever reason, every once in a while, "I'm getting really sore or having a really bad performance in these workouts," then we need to go to our other stress bucket, take a look at our allostatic load or allostasis, and get figured out what's happening there.

如果这种情况不断发生，无论出于什么原因，每隔一段时间你就会说，“伙计”，“我真的很酸痛，或者在这些训练中表现很差”，那么我们需要去我们的另一个压力桶，看看我们的非稳态负荷或非稳态，并弄清楚那里发生了什么。

So those are the easy ways to flag acute overload problems.

这些是标记严重过载问题的简单方法。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'd like to take a brief break and acknowledge our sponsor, Athletic Greens.

我想稍微休息一下，并向我们的赞助商运动绿党表示感谢。

Athletic Greens is a vitamin, mineral, probiotic, and adaptogen drink designed to help you meet all of your foundational nutritional needs.

Athletic Greens 是一种维生素、矿物质、益生菌和适应原饮料，旨在帮助您满足所有基本营养需求。

I've been taking Athletic Greens daily since 2012, so I'm delighted that they're a sponsor of this podcast.

自 2012 年以来，我每天都服用 Athletic Greens，所以我很高兴他们是这个播客的赞助商。

The reason I started taking Athletic Greens, and the reason I still take Athletic Greens once or twice a day, is that it helps me meet all of my foundational nutritional needs.

我开始服用运动绿色食品的原因，以及我仍然每天服用一两次运动绿色食品的原因，是它可以帮助我满足我所有的基本营养需求。

That is, it covers my vitamins, my minerals, and the probiotics are especially important to me.

也就是说，它涵盖了我的维生素、矿物质，而益生菌对我来说尤其重要。

Athletic Greens also contains adaptogens, which are critical for recovering from stress, from exercise, from work, or just general life.

运动绿叶蔬菜还含有适应原，这对于从压力、锻炼、工作或一般生活中恢复至关重要。

If you'd like to try Athletic Greens, you can go to athleticgreens.com/huberman to claim a special offer.

如果您想尝试 Athletic Greens，可以访问 Athleticgreens.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。

They'll give you five free travel packs, and they'll give you a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2.

他们会为您提供五个免费旅行包，并为您提供一年的维生素 D3 K2。

Again, if you'd like to try Athletic Greens, go to athleticgreens.com/huberman to claim the special offer.

再次强调，如果您想尝试 Athletic Greens，请访问 Athletic Greens.com/huberman 获取特别优惠。

I'm happy that you pointed out the distinction between functional overreaching, over-training, and being over-trained.

我很高兴您指出了功能过度、过度训练和被过度训练之间的区别。

I think one common mistake that people make in thinking about biology generally is that they think in terms of nouns and adjectives and not verbs.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Amazing.

太棒了。

I love that so much.

我非常喜欢这个。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Biology is a collection of processes, or processies, depending on who you are and where you live and who you trained with Being overtrained is a state that, in many ways, is an adjective.

You're overtrained.

你训练过度了。

I'm overtrained.

我训练过度了。

It's like saying, I'm an American.

I'm a Czechoslovakian, whatever it happens to be, right?

我是捷克斯洛伐克人，不管发生什么，对吧？

And in many ways, people do start to associate with an identity, at least a transient identity, and they start making all sorts of decisions, it sounds like, about what sorts of verbs they will and will not engage in.

Whereas I think if we look at things as processes and we assign verbs to them, then we can say, okay, I'm functionally overreaching, or I'm truly over-training, which is just a matter of degrees.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Correct.

正确。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Right?

对吗？

Or under-training, for that matter.

I'm reaching, but I'm not functionally reaching.

我正在达到目标，但功能上还没有达到目标。

It's just performance.

这只是性能。

And, just as with the nervous system, won't change unless you give it a reason to.

而且，就像神经系统一样，除非你给它一个理由，否则它不会改变。

This is the reason why if you can perform something perfectly or speak a language perfectly, there's no rewiring of the nervous system.

这就是为什么如果你能完美地完成某件事或完美地说一门语言，神经系统就不会重新布线。

This myth that we've all been told that every experience rewires your nervous system, it's different now than it was two seconds ago.

我们都被告知，每一次经历都会重新连接你的神经系统，这一神话现在与两秒钟前有所不同。

That's a ridiculous, illogical statement.

We know that's not true.

我们知道那不是真的。

If your nervous system can perform something, it has no reason to change, and it won't.

如果你的神经系统可以执行某些操作，它就没有理由改变，也不会改变。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Muscle's the same way.

肌肉也是同样的道理。

This is why you have to progressively overload.

这就是为什么你必须逐渐超负荷。

You have to learn something new or challenge your muscle to do something new.

你必须学习新的东西或者挑战你的肌肉去做新的事情。

It's the same thing.

这是同样的事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So in the example that you gave with your wife doing this workout that turned out to be far more strenuous, she had functionally overreached.

因此，在你举的例子中，你的妻子进行了这项锻炼，结果证明她的锻炼强度要大得多，她在功能上已经超出了极限。

In some sense, she might've been over-training or heading in the direction of over-training, but the mistake would be to assume that she was overtrained, right?

It almost becomes a bit of a state or a character assignment, as opposed to a verb.

它几乎变成了某种状态或字符分配，而不是动词。

And in any case, there's no perfect way to describe this.

无论如何，没有完美的方式来描述这一点。

We're talking about nouns and adjectives, and we're also talking about verbs, but I think the verbs are really anchored down in processes and things that we do, actions that we can take.

And so, if I may, I'd like to just highlight this idea of shifting one's thinking towards verb actions rather than labels on the state that we happen to be in or the person that we happen to be, right?

Sometimes it even does become kind of character logical in the way that people describe it.

有时它甚至确实像人们描述的那样成为一种符合逻辑的性格。

And, so I have to believe that there is something called overtraining, that overtraining is real, in other words, but that we don't ever really know if we're overtrained.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

You nailed it.

你成功了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

There's no-- It's not like a red flag shoots up out of your shoulder, and it's like, "I'm overtrained." So in doing so, I hope that we can start thinking about some of the verbs, the actions that we can all take in order to ensure that we stimulate progressive overload one way or another, and at the same time, that we don't fall into these bins of character assignment where suddenly we decide that we need to do X, like take a month off or something like that.

没有——这不像一面红旗从你的肩膀上升起，就像是“我训练过度了”。 So in doing so, I hope that we can start thinking about some of the verbs, the actions that we can all take in order to ensure that we stimulate progressive overload one way or another, and at the same time, that we don't fall into these bins of character assignment where suddenly we decide that we need to do X, like take a month off or something like that.

Because I'm beginning to realize from our discussion that that's exactly the wrong way to go.

因为从我们的讨论中我开始意识到这完全是错误的做法。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Those are fantastic points.

这些都是很棒的观点。

I want to make sure it is clear that there is no clinical diagnoses for overtraining.

我想确保清楚的是，没有过度训练的临床诊断。

There are no standards, there's no test or a blood panel you can pull that would actually identify you in that state.

没有标准，没有测试或血液检测可以真正识别您在该州的身份。

So your distinction here, Andrew, of these are verbs rather than nouns is so wonderful because that is exactly the case.

所以安德鲁，你在这里对这些是动词而不是名词的区分是如此美妙，因为事实正是如此。

The only way we could really retroactively diagnose one with overtraining is if, again, you did weeks of recovery and you only got back to baseline.

So we can't do it in the moment.

I can't take a single test.

我无法参加任何一项测试。

There's no subjective marker or anything that says you are overtrained.

没有任何主观标记或任何东西表明您训练过度。

It is simply you are probably overtraining, and we need to reverse that quickly.

只是你可能训练过度了，我们需要尽快扭转这种情况。

Or in the case of the step before, you are probably non-functionally overreaching, and if you continue to do this, you will probably enter into a stage where this is your overtraining, and we need to come back.

So that's an important thing to let people know is there's no one thing we can actually point to that says you are here.

因此，让人们知道这一点很重要，我们实际上无法指出任何一件事表明您在这里。

You are not a noun.

你不是一个名词。

This is a verb.

这是一个动词。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So what are some tools that we can use to enhance our recovery?

那么我们可以使用哪些工具来促进康复呢？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep, let's start off with that acute overload phase.

是的，让我们从急性过载阶段开始。

So in other words, I just did a workout, and I'm feeling awful, or I just did one two days ago, and I'm super sore.

换句话说，我刚刚做了一次锻炼，我感觉很糟糕，或者我两天前刚做了一次，我非常酸痛。

How do I get rid of that right now?

我现在该如何摆脱它？

Well, there's a couple of things you can do immediately after your workout, and then others that are maybe more actionable a day later or two days later.

And we'll just cover a handful of them.

我们只会介绍其中的一小部分。

We'll do some nutrition and hydration and supplementation in the next episode.

下一集我们会做一些营养补水和补充。

I'm going to cover everything else not in that category right now.

我现在将讨论不属于该类别的所有其他内容。

So a couple of things.

有几件事。

Number one, you can actually kickstart that recovery process at the end of your current training session, and I guess I should say it this way.

第一，你实际上可以在当前训练结束时启动恢复过程，我想我应该这样说。

I strongly suggest you start this recovery process immediately after the workout.

我强烈建议您在锻炼后立即开始此恢复过程。

You mentioned earlier about this idea of you got to get a really high peak of stress to cause adaptation, but I actually didn't explain that correctly because what has to happen is you need that extremely high peak, but then you have to be met with an extremely sharp recovery back down.

您之前提到过，您必须获得非常高的压力峰值才能引起适应，但实际上我没有正确解释这一点，因为必须发生的是您需要极高的峰值，但随后您必须遇到非常急剧的恢复。

And so you've talked about this before in some of your neuroplasticity stuff and in terms of what has to happen that caused the insult, and then you immediately need to be able to recover to make sure that that causes changes in the brain.

所以你之前在一些神经可塑性的内容中谈到过这一点，以及导致侮辱的原因，然后你立即需要能够恢复以确保这会导致大脑发生变化。

Same thing happens here.

同样的事情也发生在这里。

So we need a really sharp and high inflammatory response, and then if you do not meet it with an immediate recovery period, the signal won't be there to maximize your results.

因此，我们需要非常强烈和高度的炎症反应，如果您没有立即恢复期，就不会出现信号来最大化您的结果。

So what's that mean?

那么这是什么意思呢？

You can actually do a couple of things.

实际上你可以做几件事。

Number one is actually listening to slow-paced music.

第一实际上是听慢节奏的音乐。

There's evidence to suggest fast-paced music may slow down your recovery, and slow pace would actually enhance it.

有证据表明快节奏的音乐可能会减慢您的恢复速度，而慢节奏的音乐实际上会增强恢复速度。

So if you just change from your maximum get-you-up-and-get-going music during the workout to a slower, lower cadence, that will help you kickstart the idea.

因此，如果你在锻炼期间将最能让你起床和开始的音乐改为更慢、更低的节奏，这将帮助你启动这个想法。

Of a similar note, you can also use what we call down-regulation breathing You could do them in conjunction or one or the other, whichever is up to you.

类似地，您还可以使用我们所说的下调呼吸。您可以将它们结合起来或其中之一进行，具体取决于您。

So my personal favorite method here is somewhere between three to 10 minutes of finishing your training session, laying down.

I like to be in that position.

我喜欢处于那个位置。

You could certainly do it in the lotus position, but I think laying on your back is generally more effective.

你当然可以采取莲花坐的姿势，但我认为仰卧通常更有效。

Personal preference there, no science.

个人喜好，没有科学依据。

I like the eyes being covered, getting into this dark, quiet sort of area, and then just breathing through your nose in a structured cadence.

There's a lot of different things you can try.

An easy example is just box breathing.

一个简单的例子就是箱式呼吸。

So you can imagine a box having four squares.

所以你可以想象一个有四个正方形的盒子。

So what you're going to do is inhale for somewhere between three to eight seconds, and then whatever number you choose, you keep that same tempo.

所以你要做的就是吸气三到八秒，然后无论你选择什么数字，你都保持相同的节奏。

And so let's say you chose to do a five-second inhale.

假设您选择进行五秒钟的吸气。

That's going to take you up vertically.

这将带你垂直上升。

And then horizontally for your box is a five-second hold, and then a five-second exhale, and then a five-second hold.

And you just need to repeat that for the time domain.

I typically honestly don't use a timer.

老实说，我通常不使用计时器。

You'll actually notice a lot of people will fall asleep or get really close to falling asleep in this period.

You could do a triangle version of that where you do an inhale, hold, exhale, and then go right back into your inhale.

Or there's a bunch of different tricks you can try here.

You need to play around and see what actually works best for you.

您需要尝试一下，看看什么才是最适合您的。

10 minutes is probably better, but if you can just at least give me three, that'll work.

If you're really, really resistant, you can actually do that just in the shower.

And so if you're going to finish your workout, get in the shower, again, just close your eyes in the shower, give me three minutes of focused relaxation breathing, and that will accelerate the recovery process.

因此，如果您要完成锻炼，请再次淋浴，只需在淋浴时闭上眼睛，给我三分钟的集中放松呼吸，这将加速恢复过程。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I love it, and I particularly love it because my laboratory works on stress and respiration, aka breathing, and the interactions between the two.

我喜欢它，我特别喜欢它，因为我的实验室研究压力和呼吸，又名呼吸，以及两者之间的相互作用。

And I'll just mention a result that was just accepted for publication, so it should be out by the time this episode airs.

我只想提到一个刚刚被接受发表的结果，所以它应该在本集播出时发布。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Hey, congrats.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Thank you.

谢谢你。

This is the beautiful work of not me directly, although it took place in my lab, but as we know, it's the students and post-docs who really do the heavy lifting-

这是一项美妙的工作，不是我直接完成的，虽然它是在我的实验室里进行的，但正如我们所知，真正承担繁重工作的是学生和博士后——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Always

总是

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

of Dr. Melis Balbon in my lab, a phenomenal researcher.

That showed that a short period of five minutes of box breathing, of exactly the type that you described, or cyclic sighing, so two inhales followed by an extended exhale till lungs empty.

这表明，五分钟的短时间盒式呼吸，正是您所描述的类型，或循环叹息，因此两次吸气，然后延长呼气，直到肺部排空。

Ideally, the inhales are done through the nose, the exhales are done through the mouth, although it could all be done through the nose, or the mouth for that matter, but probably nose, nose for inhale, inhale, mouth for exhale, or inhales through the nose and exhale through the nose.

理想情况下，吸气是通过鼻子完成的，呼气是通过嘴完成的，尽管都可以通过鼻子或嘴完成，但可能是鼻子，鼻子吸气，吸气，嘴呼气，或者通过鼻子吸气，通过鼻子呼气。

Cyclic sighing, as we refer to it, done for five minutes.

正如我们所说，循环叹息持续五分钟。

Both of those produce very significant decreases in resting heart rate.

这两者都会导致静息心率显着降低。

They, over time, will increase things like heart rate variability and so on and so forth.

随着时间的推移，它们会增加心率变异性等因素。

So provided that there are extended exhales, it seems like the calming response and the reduction in overall stress occurs.

The only thing that really sends things in the other direction would be something like cyclic hyperventilation.

唯一真正让事情朝另一个方向发展的因素就是周期性过度换气。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Absolutely.

绝对的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm sure you've observed that.

And interestingly, when we had people just do five minutes of meditation, during which of course they are breathing, but they're just allowing their breathing to progress however it happens to be in that moment, or moments across the five minutes, there were reductions in the same sorts of markers of stress that I described, but not as significant as breathing.

有趣的是，当我们让人们进行五分钟的冥想时，在这期间他们当然会呼吸，但他们只是让呼吸继续进行，无论那一刻或五分钟内的哪个时刻，我所描述的相同类型的压力标记都有减少，但不如呼吸那么显着。

So I love the box breathing tool post-workout, and there's some other alternatives there too that I just mentioned, but I think people greatly underestimate the potency of breathing for shifting one's nervous system function away from stress, or if one wants, toward more alertness and stress.

所以我喜欢锻炼后的箱式呼吸工具，还有我刚才提到的其他一些替代品，但我认为人们大大低估了呼吸对于将神经系统功能从压力中转移出来的功效，或者如果一个人愿意的话，可以提高警觉性和压力。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I actually have a couple questions for you on that.

实际上我有几个问题要问你。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Sure.

当然。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I think the audience would appreciate this.

How long were those boxes?

Was it just user selected?

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Great question.

很好的问题。

So we used the carbon dioxide tolerance test-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Amazing

太棒了

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

in order for people to determine how long the different sides of the box should be.

以便人们确定盒子不同边的长度。

And you covered carbon dioxide tolerance test in a previous episode.

您在上一集中介绍了二氧化碳耐受性测试。

We can provide a link to that clip in the show note captions, but as you point out, it involves a long extended exhale till lungs empty.

我们可以在节目注释标题中提供该剪辑的链接，但正如您所指出的，它涉及长时间呼气，直到肺部排空。

And of course, people could sit with lungs empty, but they have to accurately, faithfully-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Sure.

当然。

Sure

当然可以

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

as we say, report how long it took them to empty their lungs.

We use that as a gauge.

Typically, if people go to lungs empty in 20 seconds or less, I believe, I have to go back to the paper and look, but I believe that the duration for each of the sides of the boxes, as it were, was somewhere between two and three seconds.

通常情况下，如果人们在 20 秒或更短的时间内肺排空，我相信我必须回到报纸上看看，但我相信盒子每一侧的持续时间在两到三秒之间。

If they had a CO2 discard time of anywhere from 20 seconds up to about 40, 45 seconds-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

毫米

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

we used the sides of the box were, I believe, between four and six seconds.

And then for people longer than who could discard their air over a period of a minute or more, we used a box duration, that is inhale hold, exhale hold duration, of somewhere between, I believe it was seven or maybe it was eight and as long as 11 or 12 seconds.

然后，对于那些能够在一分钟或更长时间内排出空气的人来说，我们使用了一个盒子持续时间，即吸气保持时间，呼气保持时间，介于两者之间，我相信是七秒或可能是八秒，长达 11 或 12 秒。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Those numbers are-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because you get your kind of free diver types who can really do this, who are really well trained for this sort of thing.

因为你会得到真正能做到这一点的自由潜水员类型，他们在这类事情上接受过良好的训练。

Don't quote me exactly on those numbers, but that was approximate.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Those line up exactly with what we've done.

So I believe it's going to be close.

Within seconds of non-important distinction.

It's going to be close enough.

它会足够接近的。

So that's great.

那太好了。

And that was, it took them what, six weeks before they noticed?

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So this study was done over the period of a month, and then they were swapped into a new pattern of breathing condition or meditation condition.

And this was all done-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

A crossover

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

in the natural world, as we say.

They were wearing WHOOP bands.

They were getting heart rate, heart rate variability, sleep data, subjective data about mood, et cetera.

So there were a lot of measures.

But this was more than 100 subjects out in the wild of life.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I love it.

我喜欢它。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And we tried as best we could to track life stress events and exercise and things like that.

That was harder to control outside the laboratory.

Really all those results speak to exactly what you're describing here, which is that Deliberate respiration that involves controlled holds and exhales really has a dramatic and very immediate impact on reducing our levels of stress.

实际上，所有这些结果都准确地说明了您在这里所描述的内容，即涉及受控保持和呼气的刻意呼吸确实对降低我们的压力水平具有显着且非常直接的影响。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

That's wonderful.

太棒了。

I'm not surprised at all with your findings.

And what's really interesting about that is you mentioned how the exhalation portion is primarily responsible for the downregulation, and that actually goes back to our previous endurance conversation, which is that in general, at rest, at non-altitude, increases in CO2 are the primary driver for ventilation.

真正有趣的是，您提到呼气部分主要负责下调，这实际上可以追溯到我们之前的耐力对话，即一般来说，在休息时、在非海拔高度时，二氧化碳的增加是通气的主要驱动力。

And so what that generally means is inhales are associated with an uptick in sympathetic state, and exhales are associated with a uptick of parasympathetic state.

因此，这通常意味着吸气与交感神经状态的上升有关，呼气与副交感神经状态的上升有关。

This is generally why folks will do things like exhale and finish that exhale right before they perform a very high-precision neurological task.

这通常就是为什么人们会在执行非常高精度的神经任务之前做诸如呼气之类的事情并完成呼气。

So if you're going to, say, aim at a target and shoot, you're going to exhale fully and then almost always execute that movement at the end of the exhale because that's when you're in your highest parasympathetic state and lowest drive for ventilation.

因此，如果你要瞄准目标并射击，你将完全呼气，然后几乎总是在呼气结束时执行该动作，因为此时你处于最高的副交感神经状态和最低的通气动力。

I have to say, I'm not surprised at all that you guys found that.

There's actually other data that point to individuals, particularly after endurance training, that can get back down to baseline heart rate, is going to be correlated with who gets the most actual result of their training.

实际上还有其他数据表明，个人，特别是在耐力训练之后，可以恢复到基线心率，这将与谁获得最实际的训练结果相关。

Said that, if you take a bunch of individuals and put them through an endurance training program, and if you measure how quickly they can get back down to baseline after each workout, in general, those folks that are better at that are going to see greater improvements in performance at the end of your, say, four, or six, or eight-week training block.

他说，如果你让一群人接受耐力训练计划，如果你测量他们每次锻炼后恢复到基线的速度，一般来说，那些在这方面做得更好的人会在四、六或八周的训练结束时看到更大的表现改善。

And so there's a little bit of causation and correlation there that we have to untie, but I think it's enough to say, hey, if you invest these three, and in your case, your study was five minutes, it's only going to enhance recovery.

因此，我们必须解开其中的一些因果关系和相关性，但我认为这足以说明，嘿，如果你投入这三项，在你的例子中，你的研究是五分钟，它只会增强恢复。

You have a likelihood of increasing your results from your training.

您有可能通过训练提高成绩。

And now we also have additional benefits, like being able to transition more appropriately into our next task, going to work, going to see family, whatever the thing is.

现在我们还有额外的好处，比如能够更适当地过渡到我们的下一个任务，去工作，去看望家人，无论发生什么。

And it's a nice close to, I asked you to be in a high sympathetic state body, and I asked you to perform and to be under stress.

I gave you recovery, and now we're ready to transition into our next thing so that we don't take that exercise energy, if you will, into our next task, which may or may not want me in a sympathetic drive state.

我让你恢复了，现在我们已经准备好过渡到我们的下一件事，这样我们就不会把锻炼的能量，如果你愿意的话，带入我们的下一个任务，这可能会也可能不希望我处于交感驱动状态。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So if somebody is sore following a workout, either locally sore in a muscle group or group of muscles, maybe in their legs or chest or torso, or maybe their whole body is sore, as it sometimes is the case, what are some tools that they can implement in order to accelerate the, I want to call it moving out of that soreness, but it's really, as we know, the alleviation of the soreness through a bunch of different processes.

因此，如果有人在锻炼后感到酸痛，要么是某个肌肉群或一组肌肉的局部酸痛，可能是腿部、胸部或躯干的酸痛，要么是他们整个身体的酸痛，有时就是这种情况，他们可以采取哪些工具来加速，我想称之为摆脱酸痛，但正如我们所知，这实际上是通过一系列不同的过程来缓解酸痛。

What are the most effective tools to push back on that soreness and dissipate it?

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah, absolutely.

是的，绝对是。

First of all, it's not lactate.

That's just a really important thing that we still hear people talk about is, you're sore 24 hours later.

我们仍然听到人们谈论的一件非常重要的事情是，24 小时后你会感到酸痛。

You got to do this thing to get the lactate out of there.

你必须做这件事才能把乳酸排出去。

As we talked about in the metabolism conversation and episode, that is not the cause of fatigue, and it's certainly not the cause of soreness.

正如我们在新陈代谢对话和剧集中谈到的，这不是疲劳的原因，当然也不是酸痛的原因。

So not an actionable tip there, but just a pet peeve of mine when I hear people say that, that I get irritated.

所以这不是一个可行的建议，只是当我听到人们这么说时，我感到恼火。

So we can maybe end that conversation.

所以我们也许可以结束这次谈话。

Strategies, tools.

Here's what you can do.

这是你可以做的。

You can actually wear compression gear.

您实际上可以佩戴压缩装备。

That will help a little bit.

这会有一点帮助。

There's a decent amount of evidence suggesting if you just were to put some tighter fitting clothes on, leisure wear, or compression gear if you have it, that that can actually prevent a little bit of soreness from occurring.

有大量证据表明，如果您穿上一些更紧身的衣服、休闲服或压缩装备（如果有的话），实际上可以防止出现一点酸痛。

So if you're in the case of poor Natasha and you realize you've just done way, way, way too much, or you went and hung out with your bow hunting friend and you trained way too hard and you realize, "Oh my goodness, I'm going to be very sore here," you can immediately put on compression gear and wear that really for as long as possible.

所以，如果你是可怜的娜塔莎，你意识到自己做得太多了，或者你和你的弓箭狩猎朋友一起出去玩，你训练得太辛苦了，你意识到，“哦，我的天哪，我这里会非常酸痛”，你可以立即穿上压缩装备，并尽可能长时间地穿着它。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What are some examples of compression gear?

压缩装置有哪些示例？

I've seen people on the plane with those high socks.

我在飞机上见过有人穿着高筒袜。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Anything that you wear compression gear for what you do for exercise.

任何您在锻炼时佩戴压缩装备的物品。

So whether these are just compression pants and leggings, tight-fitting leggings, whether this is a long sleeve shirt that's like a rash guard you would wear in jujitsu or surfing or something like that.

As long as it's tight-fitting, it doesn't have to be much more than that.

只要是紧身的，就不必多于此。

I suppose you could get the socks, would be great, but we generally just tell our athletes they would put on long sleeve compression shirts that they would wear for their training and then long compression leggings, and that'd be fine.

我想你可以得到袜子，那就太好了，但我们通常只是告诉我们的运动员，他们会穿上训练时穿的长袖压缩衬衫，然后穿上长压缩紧身裤，那就没问题了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Can people apply these compression garb after training and still get some of the positive effects?

人们在训练后穿上这些压缩服还能获得一些积极的效果吗？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah, I have not seen any evidence to suggest that that would block adaptation.

是的，我还没有看到任何证据表明这会阻碍适应。

That may be the case.

情况可能是这样。

I am not aware of those studies if that happens, but I certainly know that the information suggests it can enhance a little bit of muscle recovery.

我不知道这些研究是否会发生这种情况，但我当然知道这些信息表明它可以增强一点肌肉恢复。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But ideally, one knows if they are about to do a workout that could trigger a lot of soreness.

但理想情况下，人们知道他们是否要进行一项可能引发大量酸痛的锻炼。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then wears compression gear of some sort to offset that.

然后佩戴某种压缩装备来抵消这一影响。

And if so, does it have to be local to the muscle groups that you're working on?

如果是这样，它是否必须位于您正在锻炼的肌肉群的局部？

The reason I ask about the socks is my understanding of the socks, the compression socks people wear on the plane, is that it's going to shift the patterns of blood flow, not just in the lower legs, but all over the body.

我询问袜子的原因是我对袜子的理解，即人们在飞机上穿的压缩袜，它会改变血液流动的模式，不仅在小腿上，而且在整个身体上。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

You're probably going to want to focus it on the actual exercising tissue, though actually, that's a really good question.

您可能希望将其重点放在实际的运动组织上，尽管实际上，这是一个非常好的问题。

I don't know the answer of whether or not you did an upper body workout, only wore lower body compression gear, if that would actually help.

我不知道你是否进行了上半身锻炼，只穿着下半身压缩装备，这是否真的有帮助。

That's a great question.

这是一个很好的问题。

It may have been done.

也许已经完成了。

I don't know.

我不知道。

But I don't know the answer to that.

但我不知道答案。

In general, we just tell people, wear the whole thing as much as you can.

一般来说，我们只是告诉人们，尽可能多地穿整件衣服。

I actually am not concerned that you're wearing it during your workout.

事实上，我并不担心你在锻炼时戴着它。

It is something you could put on afterwards or even wear just a little bit of compression the other day.

您可以事后穿上它，甚至可以在另一天穿一点压缩衣。

We actually did a really fun study.

我们实际上做了一项非常有趣的研究。

I collaborated with Bill Kramer, who's A sports scientist of the year award is the Bill Kramer Award, if that gives you an indication, out of University of Connecticut, as well as with Lee Brown.

我与比尔·克莱默（Bill Kramer）合作，他是康涅狄格大学的年度体育科学家奖，如果这给了你一个暗示的话，还有李·布朗（Lee Brown）。

So two lifetime achievement award winners.

两位终身成就奖获得者。

And we put people on a plane in Storrs, Connecticut, and flew them to Cal State Fullerton, so a cross-country flight.

我们把人们安置在康涅狄格州斯托斯的一架飞机上，然后将他们飞往加州州立大学富勒顿分校，所以这是一次越野飞行。

And some of them got to wear compression gear during the flight, and others did not.

他们中的一些人在飞行过程中必须穿戴压缩装备，而另一些人则没有。

And then they landed in California, did a training bout, put them back on the plane, went back to Storrs, and I think they did another training bout when they got back there.

There was a lot of data that came out of that paper, but one of the things that was clear is the compression group was effective at handling some of the blood-related coagulation and other issues associated with long flights, and particularly athletic performance.

So that's actually a sneaky little insider trick that I'll use a lot with people, particularly with athletes that are traveling, is just wear that compression gear on the plane.

So you talked about that, and that sort of brung that study to mind.

所以你谈到了这一点，这让我想起了那项研究。

That is another effective strategy.

这是另一个有效的策略。

So compression gear in general, as well as particularly on a plane.

一般情况下，尤其是飞机上的压缩装置也是如此。

Basically, the tighter you can get it, the better, without obviously making your hands purple and being uncomfortable and things like that.

基本上，你能把它弄得越紧越好，而不会明显让你的手变紫和不舒服之类的事情。

So it doesn't have to be overly tight.

所以不必太紧。

Anything will work and probably help.

任何事情都会起作用并且可能会有所帮助。

So I'm also doing that personally, anytime I'm taking a flight like that, as much as I can, just to feel a little better when I get there.

所以我个人也会这样做，每当我乘坐这样的航班时，都会尽我所能，只是为了在到达那里时感觉好一点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So what are some other methods that we can use to alleviate acute soreness?

那么我们还可以使用哪些其他方法来缓解急性疼痛呢？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Well, if we continue down the same theme, which is saying, okay, we use some sort of pressure manipulation to enhance recovery.

好吧，如果我们继续同样的主题，那就是说，好吧，我们使用某种压力操纵来增强恢复。

If compression is one strategy, you can also use things like compression boots or garments, and these are pneumatic devices that will pump air outside you and compress back and forth.

There's any number of devices that will do this.

有很多设备可以做到这一点。

You can also use the physical hand.

您也可以使用实体手。

So this would be massage and body work.

所以这就是按摩和身体锻炼。

They're all really working, as best we can tell, on the same mechanisms, which are effectively moving fluid in and out of the tissue, as well as potentially enhancing blood flow, increasing capillarization, which is going to only get nutrients in and waste products out.

So you can kind of pick and choose based upon your budget, preferences, availability, timing, things like that.

因此，您可以根据自己的预算、偏好、可用性、时间安排等进行选择。

So those are all effective strategies.

所以这些都是有效的策略。

Outside of that really is the next largest category, which is now thermal.

除此之外，确实是下一个最大的类别，现在是热学。

And so far in this discussion, we've mentioned cold water immersion, and I talked about in the hypertrophy section how you would not want to do that immediately post-exercise, which would be getting into cold water or an ice bath if you're trying to grow muscle mass.

Having said that, there is good evidence showing that cold water immersion specifically is effective at reducing muscle soreness.

话虽如此，有充分的证据表明冷水浸泡对于减轻肌肉酸痛特别有效。

So it is a fair consideration, and it's a classic example of how there are no free passes in physiology.

所以这是一个公平的考虑，也是生理学中没有自由通行证的典型例子。

Nothing is always good or always bad.

没有什么总是好的或总是坏的。

It's always about what are you willing to give up versus what you're willing to get.

这总是关于你愿意放弃什么与你愿意得到什么。

And the case of cold water immersion, you may be thinking, "Yeah, I might blunt some of the hypertrophic adaptations." But if you're in that phase of training where you're actually trying to push more towards optimization in that moment rather than long-term adaptation, then an ice bath might be a great choice.

在冷水浸泡的情况下，你可能会想，“是的，我可能会削弱一些肥大的适应能力。” But if you're in that phase of training where you're actually trying to push more towards optimization in that moment rather than long-term adaptation, then an ice bath might be a great choice.

In addition, if you fall into a scenario like Natasha did, and you realize, "I'm just so unbelievably sore, this might cost me three or four or five or six days of training," it might be worth it for you to accelerate that recovery process by a couple of days so that you don't miss so much training.

So it's an algorithm.

所以它是一种算法。

It's an equation.

What am I looking for?

我在寻找什么？

Again, if I'm in the season or trying to compete or if I have just done way too much exercise and I am really in significant pain, you would probably be willing to give up some small percentage of eventual muscle growth after a single session to get out of pain.

So of the cold strategies, cold water immersion is clearly the best approach, rather than cold air or some other tactics.

因此，在寒冷策略中，冷水浸泡显然是最好的方法，而不是冷空气或其他策略。

So a cold shower is probably not enough here.

所以在这里洗冷水澡可能是不够的。

You really do want to be either in moderately cold, this is maybe 40 to 50-degree water, for probably north of 15 minutes, or you can be in sub-40 for as little as maybe five minutes to get some of the effect.

And there's been a number of studies, so I'm sort of summarizing a bunch of that kind of into one rather than going through them point by point.

已经有很多研究了，所以我把一堆这样的研究总结成一个，而不是逐条地进行研究。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The numbers you just threw out, which I'm assuming are Fahrenheit- ...

你刚刚抛出的数字，我假设是华氏度 - ...

seem really cold to me.

我觉得真的很冷。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Uncomfortably cold.

冷得不舒服。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Absolutely.

绝对的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So I always recommend that people ease into it as a protocol overall, that they not immediately go to 35-degree cold water if they've never done it before.

That said, once people are comfortable being uncomfortable, because I always answer the question how cold should it be exactly, would you agree that it should be very cold, so much so that you really want to get out, but that you're able to stay in safely, whatever that value happens to be?

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

You absolutely need to be safe.

你绝对需要安全。

Having said that, we have actually, in our XPT retreats, put dozens if not hundreds of people at this point immediately into the sub-35-degree water their first time ever and done three minutes, multiple rounds in a session.

So they can handle it.

所以他们可以处理它。

But you don't need to go that crazy if you don't want.

但如果你不愿意，你也不必那么疯狂。

You kind of have to play a game, right?

你总得玩个游戏吧？

Do you want to be really cold for a short amount of time, or do you want to be kind of cold for a longer amount of time?

您想在短时间内感到寒冷，还是想在较长时间内感到寒冷？

Really the only mistake you can make is doing something like 65-degree water, which for most people is not very comfortable, and doing 5 or 10 minutes.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's just not going to be effective.

它只是不会有效。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

It's probably not going to be effective.

很可能不会有效果。

So if you're like, "Man, 35 is absolutely crazy," and you want to do 55-degree water, and there's literature in that area, but it's going to say you need to probably be there somewhere almost surely north of 10 minutes, and some of it will actually show you need to be in there well north of 20 to 30 minutes.

So for my money, I would rather go really cold and get it done in five minutes, but personal preference on this one.

因此，为了我的钱，我宁愿在五分钟内完成它，但个人偏好这个。

You can also make it a little bit easier on yourself There is not nearly as much evidence, but there is some on contrast stuff.

你也可以让自己变得更容易一点。虽然没有那么多证据，但有一些对比的东西。

So this is when you go cold, hot, and sort of back and forth.

所以这就是你冷、热、来回变化的时候。

There are no really good rules in terms of how much should you go, how many rounds, how long in cold, how long in hot.

关于你应该走多少圈、跑多少轮、冷跑多长时间、热跑多长时间，并没有真正好的规则。

Again, there have been a couple of studies, but-- And obviously those studies use numbers, but that doesn't mean those have been tested to see what are optimal, which is a very big difference.

So you can really just kind of play that by feel.

所以你真的可以凭感觉来玩。

Hot is good for recovery.

热有利于恢复。

You just have to be careful because you are going to put more blood flow in the area, and so you may walk out of there with some additional acute swelling, which is then going to put greater pressure on there.

So you have to kind of play with that.

所以你必须玩这个。

I personally really like hot for recovery.

我个人非常喜欢热疗来恢复。

I will feel maybe not great in that moment, but the next day I tend to feel really, really good.

那一刻我可能感觉不太好，但第二天我往往会感觉非常非常好。

In addition, if I wake up the next morning and I'm really, really hurting and I'm super stiff, a hot bath will help that quite a bit.

此外，如果我第二天早上醒来时感到非常非常疼痛并且身体非常僵硬，洗个热水澡会有很大帮助。

So you can play with some of those protocols.

所以你可以使用其中一些协议。

Again, you don't have to do ice.

再说一次，你不必做冰。

There's absolutely no requirement to do so.

完全没有必要这样做。

It is just an option if you're interested.

如果你有兴趣的话，这只是一个选择。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

The studies of Dr. Susanna Søberg-

Susanna Søberg 博士的研究-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Sure.

当然。

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

are not directly aimed at alleviating soreness or recovery.

并不直接旨在减轻疼痛或恢复。

They're more about increasing thermal capacity by storage of brown adipose tissue, not the blubbery fat, but the stuff around the clavicles and around the heart that help you generate body heat at rest and metabolism and so on.

And the numbers there that she's come up with, again, have not been tested against all the possible derivations.

她得出的数字也没有针对所有可能的推导进行测试。

Just like with breathing, we did five-minute sessions, but who knows, maybe a minute would've been equally effective.

就像呼吸一样，我们进行了五分钟的训练，但谁知道呢，也许一分钟也同样有效。

There are constraints on these sorts of studies.

这类研究存在局限性。

But the values that she's come up with, which seem to be good thresholds for making sure that an adaptation response is triggered by heat and cold, is it ends up being 57 minutes per week total of uncomfortable but safe heat.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In that case, sauna, and that can be all in one session or breaking it up into a couple of sessions on the same day or different days, and then 11 minutes per week of cold, either in one single session or multiple sessions.

Again, one could do more.

再说一次，我们可以做得更多。

One could break that up over multiple days or do it all in one day, or do it all in one, an hour in the sauna and then 11 minutes in the cold or vice versa, although that seems a little bit extreme, especially for the uninitiated.

But those are the numbers that have been studied.

但这些是已经研究过的数字。

But as you point out, there are not a lot of really thorough studies examining different cold protocols according to temperature by time requirements.

So there is a bit of subjective feel required to establish a routine.

因此，建立常规需要一些主观感觉。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

And I would actually say this is another time to reemphasize something we talked about at the beginning of our conversation, which is that pain itself is not a defined outcome.

It's heavily influenced by your perception, and so if you don't feel like they work for you, they won't work.

它很大程度上受到你的看法的影响，所以如果你不觉得它们对你有用，它们就不会起作用。

If you feel like they work fantastic, they do.

如果您觉得它们工作得很好，那么它们确实如此。

So it's a challenging field to get really objective data on, so there's always going to be a little bit of subjective nature to some of these things.

I can tell you anecdotally, we've used hot and cold contrasts for a long time with athletes.

我可以告诉你一个有趣的事情，我们长期以来一直对运动员使用冷热对比。

Some love it, some don't care for it, and everything in between.

有些人喜欢它，有些人不关心它，以及介于两者之间的一切。

So it's one of those things where I never mandate it.

所以这是我从不强制执行的事情之一。

Of course, I can't mandate anything for anyone I work with, but I'm never like, "Hey, are you interested?

当然，我不能向与我一起工作的任何人要求任何事情，但我从来不会说，“嘿，你有兴趣吗？

Great.

太棒了。

You're struggling in this area.

你正在这个领域挣扎。

Do you want to try this?" "You did, and you liked it, great." "You're struggling in this area, and you tried it, you didn't love it.

你想试试这个吗？” “你做到了，而且你喜欢它，太棒了。” “你在这个领域苦苦挣扎，你尝试过，但你并不喜欢它。

Okay, fine.

好吧，好吧。

We'll find other routes." As we'll get into, there's a lot of ways to enhance recovery.

我们会找到其他路线。”正如我们将要讨论的，有很多方法可以增强恢复。

This is only one, and it hasn't even really come down to stopping the problem in the first place.

这只是其中一个，而且还没有真正归结为从一开始就解决问题。

We're just treating symptoms, which is first line of defense, but you really need to go back and figure out why it's happening to begin with as a solution.

These are just different, again, acute symptom management tactics.

同样，这些只是不同的急性症状管理策略。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

One final point about deliberate cold exposure I think worth mentioning is one of the reasons the shower is effective but not nearly as effective as cold water immersion or immersion in ice up to the neck is simply because of the reason you stated before, which is that most showers are not going to get that cold.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You're not going to get down into the sub-40s.

你不会跌到40岁以下。

Also cold showers haven't really been studied that much.

此外，冷水淋浴还没有被真正研究过。

They have, but not nearly as much as immersion, and people always ask why.

他们有，但不如沉浸感那么强，人们总是问为什么。

Just think about the challenges of studying cold water exposure in the shower where you can't really control for-

想想研究淋浴中冷水暴露的挑战，因为你无法真正控制-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Bingo

宾果游戏

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

how much of the body is covered, whether or not the head stays under, different sized bodies, et cetera.

身体的多少被覆盖，头部是否留在下面，不同大小的身体等等。

Whereas when people come into a laboratory, they can get into a cold water tank.

而当人们进入实验室时，他们可能会进入冷水箱。

We know where the neck is.

我们知道脖子在哪里。

We know where the chin is.

我们知道下巴在哪里。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And we can make sure that people's arms and legs are underneath.

我们可以确保人们的手臂和腿在下面。

But with cold shower, sure, you can make everyone face away or toward the shower, but it's really tricky, and for all the variations that were described.

That said, would you agree that if one wants to use deliberate cold exposure, that cold shower is better than nothing, and cold immersion in circulating cold water or ice bath is better than cold shower?

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

What I would actually say, if you're looking for recovery for muscle soreness, I would say cold shower is probably doing very little, because you're not going to be able to get enough cold water onto any muscle besides basically your head.

So maybe you could try a cold bath, and so you'd at least get some surface area coverage.

所以也许你可以尝试洗冷水澡，这样至少可以覆盖一些表面积。

But yeah, if you want to use cold shower for all the other awesome reasons to cold shower, that's totally great, but if you're trying to use that to recover your low back and glutes from being sore from training in a good way, it's probably not going to do much.

The immersion would be there.

沉浸感就在那里。

You actually also hit a sneaky other point, which is if you can't get your water super cold, just make the water move.

实际上，你还遇到了另一个偷偷摸摸的问题，那就是如果你不能让水变得超冷，就让水移动即可。

So if you have jets and stuff you can turn on, and anyone who's tried this and if you're like, "Okay, I can do a 40-degree bath, awesome." Try 60 when the water's moving.

所以，如果你有喷射器之类的东西，你可以打开，任何尝试过这个的人，如果你想，“好吧，我可以洗个 40 度的澡，太棒了。”当水流动时尝试 60。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Right.

对。

Because you break up the thermal layer.

因为你破坏了热层。

Normally you have a little thin layer of-

通常你会有一层薄薄的-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

the water that you're heating up.

你正在加热的水。

You break that up.

你把它打破吧。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

It's a whole new world.

这是一个全新的世界。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Absolutely.

绝对地。

So being very still in the cold water is actually the weaker way to go.

因此，在冷水中保持静止实际上是较弱的方法。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Correct.

正确。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That you can make your face stoic but make your body circulate-

你可以让你的脸坚忍，但让你的身体循环——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep

是的

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

some water around you.

你周围有一些水。

As long as we're on this, maybe just one more point about heat I've certainly used sauna, wet sauna, dry sauna, steam saunas, jacuzzis can work pretty well.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Males, if you are looking to conceive in the 60 days following sauna or hot tub, do realize that both those approaches do severely limit the number of motile sperm, substantially so.

For people that are not trying to conceive, don't think that this works reliably enough that you could use it as a form of contraception.

对于不想怀孕的人来说，不要认为这种方法足够可靠，可以将其用作避孕形式。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But for people that are trying to conceive, it really is detrimental to sperm health.

但对于想要怀孕的人来说，这确实不利于精子的健康。

And so for that reason, some people bring an ice pack and put it on the groin or near the groin when they go in.

因此，有些人进去时会带上冰袋，放在腹股沟或腹股沟附近。

But which is harder to do in a hot tub than a sauna.

但这在热水浴缸中比在桑拿浴室中更难做到。

So here we're getting into the fine points-

所以在这里我们要讨论要点——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

or crude points, if you will, no pun intended.

或者粗俗的观点，如果你愿意的话，没有双关语的意思。

But the idea is that we wouldn't want anyone to approach these techniques and compromise their other life goals inadvertently.

但我们的想法是，我们不希望任何人使用这些技术并无意中损害他们的其他生活目标。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I was not allowed anywhere near these things when we were at that stage of life.

当我们处于人生的那个阶段时，我不被允许靠近这些东西。

I'll just say, Natasha put an X Nay on me hanging out with Laird.

我只想说，娜塔莎对我和莱尔德出去玩的行为表示拒绝。

So at least-

所以至少——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Oh, going in the sauna?

哦，去桑拿吗？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

She's just like, "Nope." For those reasons, she's like, "You're not going in, you're not going none of this stuff," and I just had to wait.

她只是说，“不。”出于这些原因，她说，“你不能进去，你不能去这些东西，”我只能等待。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Right.

对。

Heat and sperm have a relationship, but it's not one that's positive for the sperm.

热量和精子有一定关系，但对精子来说并不是一种积极的关系。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Correct.

正确。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'd like to take a brief break to acknowledge our sponsor, InsideTracker.

我想稍微休息一下，以感谢我们的赞助商 InsideTracker。

InsideTracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and help you reach your health goals.

InsideTracker 是一个个性化营养平台，可分析您的血液和 DNA 数据，帮助您更好地了解您的身体并帮助您实现健康目标。

I've long been a believer in getting regular blood work done for the simple reason that many of the factors that impact your immediate and long-term health and wellbeing can only be analyzed from a quality blood test.

长期以来，我一直坚信定期进行血液检查，原因很简单，影响您当前和长期健康和福祉的许多因素只能通过高质量的血液测试来分析。

One issue with a lot of blood tests and DNA tests out there, however, is that you get information back about various levels of lipids and hormones and metabolic factors, et cetera, but you don't know what to do with that information.

然而，大量血液测试和 DNA 测试的一个问题是，你会得到有关不同水平的脂质、激素和代谢因素等的信息，但你不知道如何处理这些信息。

InsideTracker makes knowing what to do with all that information exceedingly easy.

InsideTracker 使了解如何处理所有这些信息变得非常容易。

They have a personalized platform that lets you see what your specific numbers are, of course, but then also what sorts of behavioral dos and don'ts, what sorts of nutritional changes, what sorts of supplementation would allow you to bring those levels into the ranges that are optimal for you.

当然，他们有一个个性化的平台，可以让你看到你的具体数字是多少，还有哪些行为该做、不该做、什么样的营养变化、什么样的补充剂可以让你将这些水平调整到最适合你的范围。

If you'd like to try InsideTracker, you can visit insidetracker.com/huberman to get 20% off any of InsideTracker's plans.

如果您想尝试 InsideTracker，可以访问 insidetracker.com/huberman，享受任何 InsideTracker 计划 20% 的折扣。

Again, that's insidetracker.com/huberman to get 20% off.

同样，在 insidetracker.com/huberman 上可以获得 20% 的折扣。

Are there ways to combine the various types of stimuli that you described for inducing recovery?

有没有办法结合您所描述的各种类型的刺激来诱导恢复？

You talked about breathing-based tools, which while they could adjust and indeed do adjust oxygen and carbon dioxide ratios and et cetera, I'm guessing the major effect of those on recovery is going to be neural.

It's going to be deliberate calming of the nervous system, more sympathetic based as you mentioned.

正如你提到的，这将是有意地镇静神经系统，更多的是基于同情心。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah, absolutely.

是的，绝对是。

Yeah, most definitely.

是的，绝对是。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then you talked about some movement-based and touch-based approaches, which movement certainly will circulate blood, but also will generate contractions of the muscles.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Which may be if indeed, again, it's still speculation, if indeed some of the soreness is due to excessive stretch or swelling at the stretch ends of the muscles, that would make sense.

So movement and touch and then thermal.

所以运动和触摸，然后是热。

Are there ways to combine these that are more effective or maybe even synergistic?

有没有办法将这些方法结合起来更有效甚至具有协同作用？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah, I suppose you could throw on some compression garments, put on a pneumatic compression device, and sit in the sauna while you downregulate your breath.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

That would be fine.

那就好了。

Quite honestly, though, you probably don't need to maximize all of them.

不过，老实说，您可能不需要最大化所有这些。

We were joking, you could probably go for a light swim while regulating your breathing in cold water.

我们开玩笑说，你可能可以在冷水中轻游一下，同时调节呼吸。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

You would get the compression from the cold water and you'd be in a good spot.

你会受到冷水的压缩，你会处于一个好的位置。

So you could certainly do that.

所以你当然可以这样做。

The reality of it is I generally look for some physical approach and then some holistic approach of the breathwork basically.

事实上，我通常会寻找一些物理方法，然后基本上寻找一些整体的呼吸方法。

So I want breath and then something else.

所以我想要呼吸，然后是其他东西。

If you knock those two things out, you're in a good spot.

如果你把这两件事都解决了，你就处于有利地位。

So that could be breath while you're in thermal stress.

所以这可能是你处于热应激状态时的呼吸。

So just controlling and doing the downregulating stuff.

因此，只需控制并进行下调即可。

You have to also remember, ice is a stressor.

您还必须记住，冰是一种压力源。

And I'll actually show you some data here in a second about how that actually can enhance systemic recovery, although it won't happen in the acute minutes.

In fact, it's going to take at least 30 to 60 minutes, and then you'll eventually see a rebound effect.

事实上，至少需要30到60分钟，然后你最终会看到反弹效果。

But acutely, it's going to make you actually more sympathetic, which is going the other direction.

但严重的是，它实际上会让你更有同情心，这是相反的方向。

Heat can do the opposite, or it can actually drive you up.

热量可以起到相反的作用，或者它实际上可以让你兴奋起来。

So it's a little bit dependent upon how you respond, what time of day, and how you're using.

因此，这在一定程度上取决于您的反应方式、一天中的什么时间以及您的使用方式。

So in general, I guess combining them is if you need it, depending on what you have and what's available.

所以总的来说，我想如果您需要的话，可以将它们组合起来，具体取决于您拥有的和可用的。

So perhaps you don't have a sauna, but you can take a hot bath.

所以也许你没有桑拿房，但你可以洗个热水澡。

Great.

伟大的。

Maybe you have some percussion device, some tool, and you can use that, but you don't have a sauna.

也许你有一些打击设备、一些工具，你可以使用它们，但你没有桑拿房。

Amazing.

惊人的。

I don't have ice bath, these things.

我没有冰浴这些东西。

So I think rather than thinking about an optimal combination of them, I would say just use a couple of the tactics based on what you have and what is easily available in your situation.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'd love for you to teach us about some of the methods for longer form recovery as it relates to overreaching and over-training.

我希望您能教我们一些长期恢复的方法，因为它与过度伸展和过度训练有关。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Sure.

当然。

You want to think about this in a couple of phases.

您需要分几个阶段来考虑这个问题。

Phase one is to try to prevent it from happening in the first place.

第一阶段是从一开始就尽力防止这种情况发生。

In terms of training load, you're going to just go back to our previous episodes where we gave you specific instructions for how much to increase your volume and intensity per week, et cetera.

The other thing you can do then is do some monitoring, and I'll go over some different tools, some cost-free ones, as well as some higher technologically demanding ones to monitor to see if it's actually happening.

And then the third approach here is what if this has already occurred?

那么这里的第三种方法是如果这种情况已经发生怎么办？

I've figured it out.

我已经弄清楚了。

I'm stuck.

我被困住了。

How do I get back out of that hole?

我怎样才能从那个洞里出来呢？

So I would like to just sort of tackle these one by one in order, and talk about what's happening, what tools you can use, and why they're going to work.

All right, so anytime we're talking about fatigue management here Most people are aware of these terms because if you have any sort of technology, you're probably getting some sort of readiness score or recovery score or strain, depending on which app or watch or tech you have.

You have a little bit of vernacular change.

你的方言有一点变化。

If you're in the sport performance world, you might be looking at things, again, like load or GPS tracking and monitoring, and really all of it is doing the same thing.

It's trying to either, one, predict a problem is going to happen in the future and then placing restrictions upon you so that you don't run into that situation.

The other thing it's possibly doing is identifying a drop in physiology or performance and then saying, "We need to get you out of this hole." That's really what's happening.

它可能做的另一件事是发现生理或表现下降，然后说：“我们需要让你摆脱这个困境。”这确实是正在发生的事情。

And so when we think of the first one, just imagine a scenario like a mileage limitation, pitch count in baseball.

因此，当我们想到第一个时，想象一下像里程限制、棒球中的投球计数这样的场景。

And what has happened there is individuals in those fields have looked and said, "Hey, what we notice is people who throw, say, more than 100 pitches in a game tend to start losing effectiveness and increase injury rate.

发生的事情是，这些领域的一些人看了后说道：“嘿，我们注意到，在一场比赛中投球超过 100 个的人往往会开始失去效率并增加受伤率。

Therefore, we're predicting the next time you go to play, if you cross that threshold, we start having an increased risk of negative consequences.

So therefore, we're going to cap your, in this case, pitching volume at that 100 pitches per game," or whatever the case.

因此，在这种情况下，我们将把你的投球量限制在每场比赛 100 次投球，”或者无论如何。

Same thing with running, et cetera.

跑步等也是如此。

So you could just simply do that, and there's actually really cool data coming out now on sport performance stuff, looking at things like IMUs and GPS trackers and trying to identify even position by position specific recommendations for how much distance you should cover in a practice, in a training session, so that you can say, "Hey, these positions don't cross this threshold.

These positions don't cross this threshold," in basketball and tennis and all kinds of things like that.

这些位置不会跨越这个门槛，”在篮球和网球以及诸如此类的事情中。

That's not probably extremely applicable to many of the listeners right now, but it is still conveying the idea that if we understand where we break, then we can stop ourselves from getting there in the first place.

这对于现在的许多听众来说可能不太适用，但它仍然传达了这样的想法：如果我们了解我们的突破点，那么我们就可以从一开始就阻止自己到达那里。

The functional example here is just thinking about basic things like where do I start my training program, and then how do I progress it?

这里的功能示例只是考虑基本的事情，例如我从哪里开始我的培训计划，然后如何进行？

And we've already covered those numbers.

我们已经涵盖了这些数字。

In either case, though, you want to have three markers that you're paying attention to.

但无论哪种情况，您都希望拥有三个您正在关注的标记。

If you're concerned you're getting into an overreaching phase or potentially going to lead to overtraining, or you want to get out, it's three unique things.

如果您担心自己正在进入过度训练阶段或可能导致过度训练，或者您想摆脱困境，那么这是三个独特的事情。

Number one, we're going to look for some sort of performance metric.

第一，我们要寻找某种性能指标。

So this could be your times are going down, your squat numbers, your power is going down, any of these things.

所以这可能是你的时间下降了，你的深蹲次数下降了，你的力量下降了，任何这些事情。

So it's got to be an actual performance.

所以这必须是真实的表演。

Number two, some sort of physiology, and so I want to see something happening with resting heart rate, some biomarker is moving, heart rate variability, some other measure that is not influenced by you.

第二，某种生理学，所以我想看看静息心率发生了什么，一些生物标记物在移动，心率变异性，以及一些不受你影响的其他指标。

And the beauty of using biological markers are if we contrast that to performance, and I said, "Okay, here's our performance test.

使用生物标记的美妙之处在于我们将其与性能进行对比，我说：“好吧，这是我们的性能测试。

Every day you come in, you're going to do a vertical jump." And if one day you come in, all of a sudden your vertical jump is super low, I might think, "Ooh, man, maybe we're starting to overreach." You also could be feeling lazy that day and just not have jumped very high on purpose because you didn't want to work out.

每天你进来时，你都会进行垂直跳跃。” And if one day you come in, all of a sudden your vertical jump is super low, I might think, "Ooh, man, maybe we're starting to overreach." You also could be feeling lazy that day and just not have jumped very high on purpose because you didn't want to work out.

The beauty of biomarkers are you don't get to manipulate them like that.

生物标记物的美妙之处在于你不必像那样操纵它们。

They don't care.

他们不在乎。

There's a downside to it, which is maybe they're just indirect markers.

And so I'm not telling you biological markers are better than performance markers.

所以我并不是告诉你生物标记比表现标记更好。

What I'm saying is you want to look at both.

我的意思是你想两者都看看。

All right?

好的？

In fact, you want to look at our third category as well, which is some sort of symptomology.

事实上，您还想看看我们的第三类，这是某种症状学。

And so am I having a symptom of overreaching?

那么我是否有过度行为的症状？

Am I seeing a performance decrement?

我是否看到性能下降？

And then am I seeing a biological marker as well?

If you see all three of these popping up, you have reason to believe you've reached some overreaching.

如果您看到这三种情况全部出现，您就有理由相信自己已经有些过度了。

Now, what you have not identified yet is if that is functional overreaching, non-functional overreaching, or true overtraining.

And remember, you shouldn't be feeling great after every training session.

请记住，您不应该在每次训练后都感觉良好。

You're trying to cause adaptation, and until you back off, maybe even weeks or months later, to actualize the adaptation and get that super compensation and performance increase, you're going to have to invest a little bit.

你试图引起适应，直到你退缩，甚至可能几周或几个月后，为了实现适应并获得超级补偿和绩效提升，你将不得不投资一点。

So you're going to go in the hole.

所以你就要掉进坑里了。

Any sport performance coach is going to look at numbers throughout the year and say, "Yeah, when we first start training in preparation for the season, we are going to see a drop in performance that day, that week." That's part of the plan, though.

任何运动表现教练都会查看全年的数据并说：“是的，当我们第一次开始训练为赛季做准备时，我们会看到那天、那周的表现有所下降。”不过，这是计划的一部分。

That's the stress you're trying to accumulate.

这就是你试图积累的压力。

So you want to see all three of those markers.

所以你想看到所有这三个标记。

You just want to pay attention to a couple of things.

How long are they down for?

他们休息了多长时间？

A day, three days, seven days, 15 days, et cetera.

If you're seeing a performance drop in a day, and I am far away from performance, so the day that I want to peak for, I'm not going to do anything different.

如果你发现一天内的表现有所下降，而我距离表现还很远，那么在我想要达到峰值的那一天，我不会做任何不同的事情。

If I see two days in a row of dropped performance, I'm not worried.

If I see more than probably, in my opinion, five days in a row of decrement, then I might start paying attention.

在我看来，如果我看到连续五天的减量超过可能，那么我可能会开始关注。

If you're in season, though, or close to competition or whatever that thing means to you, and you see more than a couple of days in a row of dropping, then you might actually want to take some steps to mitigate that.

不过，如果你正处于赛季，或者接近比赛，或者无论这对你意味着什么，并且你看到连续几天下降，那么你实际上可能需要采取一些措施来缓解这种情况。

So it really is important you understand, again, what are we trying to do?

因此，再次理解我们要做什么真的很重要？

Are we trying to cause adaptation, or are we trying to cause adaptation?

And I have a very specific example of all this we can run through here in a second, and then, of course, a bunch of tools to pull you out of those phases.

我有一个非常具体的示例，我们可以在一秒钟内完成所有这一切，然后，当然，还有一堆工具可以帮助您摆脱这些阶段。

But that's fundamentally what we're trying to do here.

I would encourage you again, don't be too reactive and responsive to any one measure.

I'm going to cover a whole bunch of them in a second, but you can get lost in different things because they all have pros and cons.

And so I know it's simple to just look at one score on your watch and make your decisions because of that or check your app, but you really want to be careful of doing that.

因此，我知道只需查看手表上的一个分数并据此做出决定或检查您的应用程序很简单，但您确实要小心这样做。

You're going to probably lead yourself in the wrong direction more often than you're going to help yourself.

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm curious as to why when we overreach too much Or too often, or we are overtraining, that performance is diminished.

我很好奇为什么当我们过度训练或过度训练时，表现就会下降。

Because on the face of it, it's kind of obvious.

因为从表面上看，这是显而易见的。

You're overreaching, you're over-training, so performance is diminished.

你过度训练，过度训练，所以表现会下降。

But that's completely circular.

但这是完全循环的。

You hear about things like adrenal fatigue and adrenal burnout.

Well, it turns out adrenal burnout doesn't even really exist.

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Absolutely not.

绝对不是。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I mean, there is such a thing as adrenal insufficiency syndrome, but-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Of course

当然

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

these phrases like burnout, adrenal burnout, over-training, they're thrown around as much as words like gaslighting and obsessive compulsive are without any real clinical definition, or there are clinical definitions, but people aren't obeying them when they use the language.

像“倦怠”、“肾上腺倦怠”、“过度训练”这样的短语，就像“煤气灯”和“强迫症”这样的词一样，被广泛使用，没有任何真正的临床定义，或者有临床定义，但人们在使用这些语言时并不遵守它们。

I do want to acknowledge, however, what is absolutely true, which is that overreaching too much, too often, over-training, these can degrade performance.

然而，我确实想承认，绝对正确的是，过度训练、过于频繁、过度训练，这些都会降低表现。

But mechanistically speaking, what's going on?

但从机制上来说，到底发生了什么？

Because I think if once we understand what's going on mechanistically, then I think we can all look at tools, whether or not it's breathing, movement, compression, thermal, psychological, motivational, et cetera, and have a much clearer sense as to what's going to work best and what likely won't work.

因为我认为，如果我们从机制上理解了发生了什么，那么我想我们都可以研究工具，无论是呼吸、运动、压缩、热、心理、动机等等，并且对什么最有效、什么可能不起作用有更清晰的认识。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I love this question so much because, as I mentioned at the beginning, I was fortunate to spend some of my graduate work in Andy Fry's lab at the University of Memphis.

我非常喜欢这个问题，因为正如我在开头提到的，我很幸运能够在孟菲斯大学安迪·弗莱的实验室完成一些研究生工作。

And we did a lot in this area, and so in fact, this is how I learned how to do assays and run western blots and measure signaling proteins and things like this.

我们在这个领域做了很多工作，所以事实上，这就是我学习如何进行分析、运行蛋白质印迹、测量信号蛋白等的方式。

So this stuff is near and dear to my heart.

所以这些东西对我来说是很亲近的。

We also did a bunch of really wild studies, and he had done some before I got there.

我们还做了很多非常疯狂的研究，他在我到达那里之前就已经做了一些。

So I'm going to combine kind of Andy Fry's entire career, and just highlight some of the big pictures of what he found there.

因此，我将结合安迪·弗莱的整个职业生涯，并重点介绍他在那里发现的一些大图景。

He was very interested in exercise, particularly strength training, and trying to figure out this entire question, right?

他对运动非常感兴趣，尤其是力量训练，并试图弄清楚整个问题，对吗？

Which is why is this actually happening when I work out too much, when I lift too much, that all of a sudden I can't sleep.

这就是为什么当我锻炼太多、举重太多时，会突然发生这种情况，我会突然无法入睡。

What's happening?

发生什么事了？

Why is my energy down?

为什么我的精力下降了？

Why is my mood, my motivation reduced if I squat too much?

为什么如果我深蹲太多，我的情绪、动力就会降低？

And so we did a whole series of studies across his career.

因此我们在他的职业生涯中进行了一系列的研究。

And again, I'll just sort of highlight some of the themes that ran through them.

再次，我将重点强调其中的一些主题。

So the first one that jumps out to mind is early in his career, he did this really awesome protocol, where he had people squat 100% of their back squat max every day for two weeks.

所以第一个跳入脑海的是他职业生涯的早期，他做了一个非常棒的方案，他让人们每天深蹲 100% 的最大后蹲深度，持续两周。

So you come into the gym, and I think this first one was on a machine, and you did a one-rep max, and then you came back in every single day for two weeks.

所以你走进健身房，我想第一个是在机器上，你最多做了一次，然后你每天都回来，持续两周。

So these are what we would generally call kind of like that short to moderate range overreaching.

因此，这些就是我们通常所说的短到中度范围的过度延伸。

And by definition, some of them end up actually being true over-training because it would take the individuals sometimes two to up to eight weeks to return back to their one-rep max at the end of these protocols.

根据定义，其中一些最终实际上是真正的过度训练，因为在这些协议结束时，个人有时需要两到八周的时间才能恢复到最多一次训练。

So some of them were non-functional overreaching or some combination of that.

因此，其中一些是非功能性的过度扩张或两者的结合。

Well, along with that, he took a lot of blood samples as well as muscle biopsies to try to look at what's happening endocrinologically, neurologically, muscle physiology-wise, to pay attention to what's happening.

嗯，除此之外，他还采集了大量的血液样本和肌肉活检，试图从内分泌、神经、肌肉生理学角度观察正在发生的情况，以关注正在发生的事情。

So a couple of things that jump out there.

所以有一些事情会跳出来。

One of his initial studies, actually, I think the very first one he did, when they ran that first squat every day protocol.

事实上，他最初的一项研究，我想是他做的第一个研究，当时他们每天进行第一次深蹲训练。

What they found was catecholamine levels changed quite significantly.

他们发现儿茶酚胺水平发生了显着变化。

And depending on kind of what you wanted to pay attention to there, whether it was epinephrine or norepinephrine, or even some other markers, they basically increased by somewhere between two to threefold.

根据您想要关注的内容，无论是肾上腺素还是去甲肾上腺素，甚至其他一些标记物，它们基本上增加了两到三倍。

And so a little bit of understanding of sleep physiology.

对睡眠生理学有一点了解。

If adrenaline is extremely high, epinephrine, you're going to have a hard time sleeping.

如果肾上腺素非常高，你就会很难入睡。

So that alone was the first indication.

所以这就是第一个迹象。

This is like, wait a minute.

这就像，等一下。

Something's actually happening here that's just beyond muscle soreness.

这里实际上发生了一些不仅仅是肌肉酸痛的事情。

There's some sort of systemic fatigue happening.

正在发生某种全身性疲劳。

And as you rightfully pointed out, it is not the adrenal glands becoming fatigued.

正如您正确指出的那样，并不是肾上腺变得疲劳。

That's sort of a bit of tongue in cheek and pedantics.

这有点开玩笑和迂腐。

It is cortisol dysregulation and general stress syndrome.

这是皮质醇失调和一般应激综合症。

But it really can be noted in blood in terms of epinephrine and norepinephrine.

但在血液中确实可以通过肾上腺素和去甲肾上腺素来观察。

Another study he had done of a similar realm was over the course of seven and a half days, people came in and did 15 training sessions.

他对类似领域进行的另一项研究是，在 7 天半的时间里，人们参加了 15 次培训课程。

So it was really cool.

所以这真的很酷。

These are these really short bouts of just ridiculous training, and they said, "Okay, something's happening with epinephrine and norepinephrine.

这些都是非常短暂的荒谬训练，他们说，“好吧，肾上腺素和去甲肾上腺素发生了一些事情。

Something's happening with testosterone.

睾丸激素发生了一些变化。

What's it look like inside the cell?" So now muscle biopsies came on board.

牢房里面是什么样子？”所以现在肌肉活检开始出现了。

And they started looking at things like MAP kinases, which are these signaling proteins that tend to be associated with an anabolic response.

他们开始研究 MAP 激酶等信号蛋白，这些信号蛋白往往与合成代谢反应相关。

They upregulate muscle protein synthesis, and they do many other things, but that's a big factor of them.

它们上调肌肉蛋白质的合成，并且还可以做许多其他事情，但这是其中的一个重要因素。

They looked at various androgens and glucocorticoid receptors, and they wanted to see, well, maybe receptor density and/or sensitivity is changing.

他们研究了各种雄激素和糖皮质激素受体，他们想看看受体密度和/或敏感性是否正在发生变化。

And in fact, surprise, surprise, that's exactly what they found.

事实上，令人惊讶，令人惊讶，这正是他们的发现。

So they found both androgen and glucocorticoid receptor concentrations were reduced.

因此他们发现雄激素和糖皮质激素受体浓度均降低。

And so you can start to see a picture forming, which is like, hmm, very similar to the insulin type 2 diabetes story, where you've really put yourself in a very high-stress situation.

所以你可以开始看到一幅画面正在形成，这就像，嗯，与胰岛素 2 型糖尿病的故事非常相似，你真的把自己置于一个非常高压力的境地。

So presumably, epinephrine, et cetera, testosterone releases are extremely high.

因此，肾上腺素等睾酮的释放量可能非常高。

In response to that, to try to reach back to some level of homeostasis, you start down-regulating the receptors for them.

为了应对这一点，为了尝试回到某种水平的体内平衡，你开始下调它们的受体。

And so it's like the signal can only get so high.

所以信号只能达到这么高。

If you're going to keep that gas on, we're going to pull back the throttle on the receptor so that the total signal stays the same, if that makes a little bit of sense.

如果你要保持气体开启，我们将拉回接收器上的油门，以便总信号保持不变（如果这有意义的话）。

Well, that becomes obviously problematic.

好吧，这显然会成为问题。

So then a final follow-up study here that is important to note is they did another protocol, which was really, really cool, and they said, "The first ones weren't enough, so how about this?

因此，最后一项后续研究值得注意的是，他们做了另一个协议，这真的非常酷，他们说，“第一个协议还不够，所以这个怎么样？

We're going to come in every day for two weeks, and we're going to do 10 sets of a one-rep max every day." So they were coming in, and they would do 10 one-rep maxes every day for two weeks.

我们将在两周内每天都来，每天最多做 10 组单次动作。”所以他们进来后，每天都会做 10 次最多一次的动作，持续两周。

And what's really cool about that study If they didn't complete any of the repetitions, they had to repeat it until they had 10 successful one-rep maxes on that given day.

这项研究的真正酷之处在于，如果他们没有完成任何一次重复，他们就必须不断重复，直到当天成功完成 10 次单次最大次数为止。

Absolutely brutal protocol.

绝对残酷的协议。

I wasn't there at the time.

当时我不在场。

They had finished that right before I got on campus, but I was actually able to be around when they were doing some of the final analyses there of the tissue.

他们在我到达校园之前就完成了这项工作，但当他们对组织进行一些最终分析时，我实际上能够在场。

What they wanted to look at in this particular study was beta-adrenergic receptors, which are those receptors that epinephrine and such are going to be binding for.

在这项特殊的研究中，他们想要观察的是β-肾上腺素能受体，这些受体是肾上腺素等将要结合的受体。

So again, similar story here.

再次，这里有类似的故事。

Perhaps are we losing overall sensitivity because of this extreme sympathetic stimulation?

也许我们因为这种极端的交感神经刺激而失去了整体敏感性？

Now, actually, thinking back, what would've been pretty cool is if they had another group that did it and then did some downregulation breathing posts to see if that can ameliorate some of the problems.

现在，实际上，回想起来，如果他们有另一个小组这样做，然后做一些下调呼吸帖子，看看是否可以改善一些问题，那就太酷了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

No.

不。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Of course, this was 20-plus years ago or something like that.

当然，这是二十多年前的事了。

So, a couple of things that happened is the one-rep maxes dropped by, I think, around eight kilos by the end of the two weeks.

所以，发生的一些事情是，我认为，到两周结束时，单次最大重量下降了大约八公斤。

If I remember right, the group average was something in the neighborhood of 151 kilos.

如果我没记错的话，团体平均体重约为 151 公斤。

So these were pretty well-trained individuals, and it went from-- Or rather, I think actually it was about 160 kilos, and they dropped to 152 kilos.

所以这些人都是训练有素的人，而且它从——或者更确切地说，我认为实际上是大约 160 公斤，然后他们下降到了 152 公斤。

Something close to that.

与此接近的东西。

What was more significant, though, was their power dropped by 35%, which is really, really interesting because if you pay attention to declines in physical performance over time, and I mean that through aging, what you'll see is people can hold onto muscle mass pretty well.

但更重要的是，他们的力量下降了 35%，这真的非常有趣，因为如果你注意身体机能随着时间的推移而下降，我的意思是，随着年龄的增长，你会看到人们可以很好地保持肌肉质量。

It will go down by about 1% or so after the age of 40.

40岁以后会下降约1%左右。

However, strength will go down at 2% to 4%, and then power by 8% to 10%.

不过，力量会下降2%到4%，然后威力会下降8%到10%。

And if you look at actually world records across strength sports by age, you'll see that they will decline by age, but not that much.

如果你按年龄查看各个力量运动项目的实际世界纪录，你会发现它们会随着年龄的增长而下降，但不会下降那么多。

However, if you look at speed sports by age, they fall off the planet.

然而，如果你按年龄来观察速度运动，就会发现它们已经从这个星球上消失了。

So it's very challenging to preserve fast through time, whether this is fatigue or because of age.

因此，无论是因为疲劳还是因为年龄，随着时间的推移保持快速保存是非常具有挑战性的。

And that's really important because that'll then tell you, hey, a little bit of a canary in the coal mine is not necessarily your strength, but your speed.

这真的很重要，因为这会告诉你，嘿，煤矿里的金丝雀不一定是你的力量，而是你的速度。

And so a lot of different techniques that we use to measure performance, remember, that's our triad.

因此，我们使用许多不同的技术来衡量性能，请记住，这就是我们的三元组。

Symptomatology, physiology, and performance.

症状学、生理学和表现。

You're generally better looking at speed-based performance tests rather than strength-based performance tests to get an earlier indication of potential overreaching or over-training.

通常，您最好查看基于速度的性能测试而不是基于力量的性能测试，以便更早地发现潜在的过度训练或过度训练。

So anyways, back to the individual study there.

无论如何，回到个人研究。

In that same group, again, we had the same problem where it took some of them two to eight weeks to come back.

在同一组中，我们再次遇到了同样的问题，其中一些人花了两到八周才回来。

So what they had to do is, I can't remember the exact timeframe, I probably should've thought through this, but they had to come back something like every week or every couple of days, even after the study finished, until they got back to their baseline one-rep max.

所以他们要做的是，我不记得确切的时间范围，我可能应该仔细考虑一下，但他们必须每周或每几天回来一次，即使是在研究结束后，直到他们回到基线一次最多重复。

And some of them, it took them up to eight weeks before they finally got back.

其中一些人花了八周的时间才终于回来。

So they probably were in a classic over-training state at that point, which was done in as little as two weeks.

因此，他们当时可能处于典型的过度训练状态，而这种状态在短短两周内就完成了。

And this is also another point that people always ask, like, "How long does it take?

这也是人们经常问的另一点，比如“需要多长时间？

Is this something that has to happen over the course of months?" Or, "If I were to go do two-a-days or this intense training camp for two or three weeks, could I actually cause over-training?" And the answer is, if it is actually truly enough volume and enough intensity, you probably can do some significant damage in as little as two weeks.

这是几个月内必须发生的事情吗？”或者，“如果我每天两次或参加两三周的高强度训练营，我真的会导致过度训练吗？”答案是，如果确实有足够的数量和足够的强度，你可能会在短短两周内造成一些重大损害。

Probably doesn't happen that often.

可能不会经常发生。

Most likely, you're probably going to be reaching a state of non-functional overreaching, but you may actually be able to put yourself in a position where it might take three or four weeks or more to get back to baseline after a truly intense...

最有可能的是，你可能会达到一种非功能性过度扩张的状态，但实际上你可能能够让自己处于这样一种境地：在真正激烈的训练之后，可能需要三到四个星期或更长时间才能回到基线……

And again, think about this protocol.

再次考虑一下这个协议。

It's totally unrealistic for the most part.

在大多数情况下这是完全不现实的。

10 sets of a one-rep max squat every day for two straight weeks.

每天 10 组单次最大深蹲，连续两周。

Some folks, if you're extremely highly trained weightlifter, you might do something like that when you're very close to, say, world championships.

有些人，如果你是训练有素的举重运动员，当你非常接近世界锦标赛时，你可能会做类似的事情。

But outside of that really specific scenario, it's a totally absurd training protocol.

但除了那个真正具体的场景之外，这是一个完全荒谬的训练协议。

But that was the point.

但这就是重点。

We were trying to ensure that over-training was met or close.

我们试图确保达到或接近过度训练。

It's similar to when we've done, we've actually done, I think, three studies in the Center for Sport Performance on DOMS muscle soreness.

这与我们在运动表现中心所做的三项关于 DOMS 肌肉酸痛的研究类似，我认为我们实际上已经完成了三项研究。

And in all those cases, you do just ridiculous leg extension protocols because you're just trying to ensure you cause super soreness, because if you don't, then you have nothing to study.

在所有这些情况下，你只是做了荒谬的腿部伸展协议，因为你只是想确保你引起超级酸痛，因为如果你不这样做，那么你就没有什么可研究的。

So, absurd training protocols, but that's the point.

所以，荒谬的培训协议，但这就是重点。

So nonetheless, as a result, sure enough, the beta-adrenergic receptors were downregulated by something like 37%.

尽管如此，结果是，β-肾上腺素受体的调节量下降了约 37%。

What's probably even more significant, though, was the sensitivity in those receptors was reduced by two and a half fold.

然而，更重要的是，这些受体的敏感性降低了两倍半。

And so it's like, okay, wait a minute.

所以这就像是，好吧，等一下。

We're becoming desensitized to this stimuli, and we're also actually now starting to reduce our total concentration.

我们对这种刺激越来越不敏感，而且实际上我们现在也开始降低总浓度。

Similar, which is actually an interesting, it was a very sneaky, smart thing to do, is they looked at nocturnal urinary epinephrine, and guess what?

类似，这实际上很有趣，这是一件非常偷偷摸摸、聪明的事情，他们观察了夜间尿肾上腺素，你猜怎么着？

That was also up by 50%.

也增加了 50%。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

15?

15？

1-5?

1-5？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Five-zero.

五零。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Five-zero.

五零。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

And so now you're seeing this tie-in where it's like, hmm, I'm seeing a response at the tissue level.

所以现在你看到了这种搭配，就像，嗯，我看到了组织层面的反应。

I'm seeing a response probably, although they didn't actually look at the pituitary or anything like that.

我可能看到了回应，尽管他们实际上并没有观察垂体或类似的东西。

I'm seeing adrenal and other endocrinological problems, and then I'm also seeing this increase in concentration of epinephrine when I'm supposed to be sleeping, and surprise, surprise, I'm having a hard time sleeping.

我看到了肾上腺和其他内分泌问题，然后当我应该睡觉时，我还看到肾上腺素浓度增加，令人惊讶的是，我很难入睡。

Symptomatology.

症状学。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's a very interesting finding about nocturnal epinephrine.

这是关于夜间肾上腺素的一个非常有趣的发现。

Epinephrine, of course, is adrenaline.

肾上腺素当然就是肾上腺素。

It's released from the adrenals, no surprise there, but also from this brain area called locus coeruleus-

它是从肾上腺释放的，这并不奇怪，而且也是从称为蓝斑的大脑区域释放的——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

in the brain.

在大脑中。

In the brain, it tends to be called epinephrine.

在大脑中，它通常被称为肾上腺素。

In the body, adrenaline.

体内有肾上腺素。

Just to complicate everyone's understanding.

只是为了让大家的理解复杂化。

But that nomenclature did not come from us, so don't blame us.

但这个命名法不是我们提出的，所以不要责怪我们。

The point is that rapid eye movement sleep, so-called REM sleep ...

重点是快速眼动睡眠，即所谓的快速眼动睡眠……

is more abundant in the second half of the night.

后半夜更为丰富。

We know that the dreams associated with rapid eye movement sleep are more emotionally laden, and that those dreams and those emotional states are actually important for discarding the emotional load of previous days' experiences.

我们知道，与快速眼动睡眠相关的梦充满了更多的情绪负担，而这些梦和那些情绪状态实际上对于抛弃前几天经历的情绪负担很重要。

It acts as sort of a natural trauma therapy, if you will, because in the normal, healthy state, those dreams are associated with an inability to release epinephrine at night.

如果你愿意的话，它可以作为一种自然的创伤疗法，因为在正常、健康的状态下，这些梦与夜间无法释放肾上腺素有关。

So for me, what you just described, first of all, it's the first time I've ever heard of it.

所以对我来说，你刚才所描述的，首先，这是我第一次听说它。

But it ties together something really quite clear from the sleep neuroscience literature, which is that when people are stressed, they tend to get less rapid eye movement sleep.

但这与睡眠神经科学文献中非常清楚的一些内容联系在一起，即当人们有压力时，他们的快速眼动睡眠往往会减少。

That rapid eye movement sleep normally is associated with low levels of epinephrine.

快速眼动睡眠通常与肾上腺素水平低有关。

So whether or not it's causal or not isn't clear.

所以这是否是因果关系还不清楚。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But sort of doesn't matter for sake of this discussion.

但对于本次讨论而言，这并不重要。

But what I'm wondering, and I suppose one could test for, but maybe observed, is whether or not people who are overtraining too much, overreaching too much, because of this elevated nocturnal epinephrine, diminished REM sleep, whether or not their emotional state is also disrupted.

但我想知道的是，我想人们可以测试，但也许可以观察到，那些过度训练、过度训练的人是否会因为夜间肾上腺素升高、快速眼动睡眠减少，他们的情绪状态是否也会受到干扰。

Because one thing we know for sure is if you want to disrupt somebody's emotional state, you deprive them of sleep, and rapid eye movement sleep in particular.

因为我们确定的一件事是，如果你想扰乱某人的情绪状态，你就剥夺他们的睡眠，特别是快速眼动睡眠。

The one caveat to that is, for those of you out there that have heard that rapid eye movement sleep deprivation, deliberate rapid eye movement sleep deprivation, is a treatment for depression.

需要注意的是，对于那些听说过快速眼动睡眠剥夺、故意剥夺快速眼动睡眠是治疗抑郁症的一种方法的人来说。

That is true, but it's coupled with a next night enhanced rapid eye movement sleep.

确实如此，但它还伴随着第二天晚上增强的快速眼动睡眠。

So one of the major takeaways from all of this that I'm realizing is that, no surprise, daytime activities impact nighttime endocrine function, impact quality of sleep, impact daytime activities.

因此，我意识到这一切的主要收获之一是，毫不奇怪，白天活动会影响夜间内分泌功能，影响睡眠质量，影响白天活动。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Actually, there's so many fun things I want to do here now.

事实上，我现在想做的有趣的事情有很多。

This is actually why measuring eye movement is a very fantastic tool for understanding total stress load, and you can actually differentiate different types of stress, so caffeine use versus alcohol use, versus sleep deprivation, by actually measuring eye movements.

这实际上就是为什么测量眼球运动是了解总压力负荷的一个非常好的工具，并且您实际上可以通过实际测量眼球运动来区分不同类型的压力，例如咖啡因的使用与酒精的使用，与睡眠不足的比较。

That's actually what we do in our Absolute Rest Sleep company, is in addition to getting a full PSD sleep study done in your bedroom, you're going to get an eye tracking assessment, which we're going to be able to figure out why you're getting there.

这实际上就是我们在绝对休息睡眠公司所做的事情，除了在您的卧室完成完整的 PSD 睡眠研究之外，您还将获得眼动追踪评估，我们将能够找出您为何会出现这种情况。

So, nonetheless, yeah, if you actually look at the classic signs and symptoms of overtraining or overtraining syndrome, it's going to be everything from performance decrements like we talked about.

所以，尽管如此，是的，如果你真的观察一下过度训练或过度训练综合症的典型体征和症状，就会发现，这一切都与我们所说的表现下降有关。

Resting heart rate is going to increase.

静息心率会增加。

You're going to see things like HRV drop by generally 20 or so percent.

您会看到 HRV 等指标通常下降 20% 左右。

That would be a very large disruption in HRV.

这将对 HRV 造成非常大的干扰。

Decreased body weight, and then all the stuff, Andrew, you just talked about, so motivation, adherence, appetite, mood.

体重减轻，然后是所有的东西，安德鲁，你刚才谈到了，所以动力、坚持、食欲、情绪。

All of this stuff are classically known associations with overtraining, and that's for the exact reasons you're talking about.

所有这些东西都是众所周知的与过度训练的关联，这就是你所说的确切原因。

Sleep disturbances and disruptions, wanting to train, motivation, all of this stuff goes part and parcel with non-functional overreaching and/or overtraining.

睡眠障碍和干扰、想要训练、动力，所有这些都与非功能性过度伸展和/或过度训练密切相关。

You can actually tie this back in a little bit more to some other biomarkers, and this is great because this is the stuff we look for.

实际上，您可以将其与其他一些生物标记物联系起来，这很棒，因为这就是我们正在寻找的东西。

This is the physiology stuff we look for.

这就是我们寻找的生理学东西。

You've probably talked about SHBG before, which is the sex hormone binding globulin.

您之前可能已经讨论过性激素结合球蛋白（SHBG），即性激素结合球蛋白。

So it's this protein that'll float in your body that's going to bind up sex hormones, in particular testosterone.

因此，正是这种漂浮在您体内的蛋白质会结合性激素，特别是睾丸激素。

So what happens with overtraining is you can actually take this serially, like week by week, and you can actually see this number rise.

因此，过度训练会发生什么，你实际上可以连续地进行训练，比如一周一周，你实际上可以看到这个数字上升。

And so if you see this, say you're using a service like InsideTracker, and you're getting your blood measured every so often, and you see this number start ticking up.

因此，如果您看到这一点，假设您正在使用 InsideTracker 这样的服务，并且您经常测量血液，并且您会看到这个数字开始上升。

This is actually associated with that because what's actually happening is it's binding up all your free testosterone, and that's just leading back to the circle we're talking about.

这实际上与此相关，因为实际发生的情况是它结合了您所有的游离睾酮，而这又回到了我们正在讨论的循环。

And you can actually see the same thing happen with calorie restriction.

事实上，你可以看到卡路里限制也会发生同样的情况。

Just not eating enough calories.

只是没有摄入足够的热量。

But in this particular case, because it actually happens in both scenarios, you know it's not an issue simply of being under-caloried.

但在这种特殊情况下，因为这两种情况实际上都会发生，所以你知道这不仅仅是热量不足的问题。

It's clearly an issue of the training load being too high.

这显然是训练负荷过高的问题。

So just to give another little tool, I can get the link for it, but there's a website that was created by, I forget which journal.

因此，为了提供另一个小工具，我可以获得它的链接，但是有一个网站是由哪个期刊创建的，我忘记了。

I'm slipping.

我滑倒了。

But I'll get it to you, you can link it up, where you can actually go in and plug in a number of values from blood chemistry, so if you got your blood work done.

但我会把它给你，你可以将它连接起来，你可以实际进入并插入血液化学中的许多值，所以如果你完成了血液工作。

And you can plug in your pre-number and your post number.

您可以输入您的前置号码和邮寄号码。

So say you got it done, and then maybe 10 weeks later, you got it done again, and you're wondering, and you notice, "Hey, my free testosterone's down," or "My SHBG is up." Is it actually a meaningful number?

假设你完成了它，然后也许 10 周后，你再次完成了它，你想知道，你注意到，“嘿，我的游离睾酮下降了”，或者“我的性激素结合球蛋白上升了。”它实际上是一个有意义的数字吗？

And it will actually tell you whether or not the change, pre to post, is physiologically meaningful or not, or just within the error margin of the measure.

它实际上会告诉您前后的变化是否具有生理意义，或者是否在测量的误差范围内。

And you can actually change, right there on the website, you can change your confidence interval.

实际上，您可以在网站上进行更改，您可以更改您的置信区间。

So it's really, really cool if you just have your own blood, and you want to know, like, "Hey, I had any level this year, and now it's here, over there." It's just a totally free resource, created, gone through peer review, all that stuff, and I'll give you the link to that.

所以，如果你只有自己的血液，并且你想知道，就像，“嘿，我今年达到了任何水平，现在它在这里，在那里。”这真的非常非常酷。它只是一个完全免费的资源，创建，经过同行评审，所有这些东西，我会给你链接。

So that's a pretty cool measure.

所以这是一个非常酷的措施。

In addition to that, probably one of the more powerful and easy metrics biologically is to take your cortisol and DHEA ratio.

除此之外，从生物学角度来说，更强大、更简单的指标之一可能是测量皮质醇和 DHEA 的比率。

So this is known to be associated with a lot of things.

所以众所周知，这与很多事情有关。

You want to be really careful.

你要非常小心。

You don't want this number to be too high or too low.

您不希望这个数字太高或太低。

Something like 0.09 is about the right-

0.09 之类的值大约是右边的 -

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And it's cortisol to DHEA.

它是皮质醇到 DHEA。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

DHEA to cortisol ratio, yeah.

DHEA 与皮质醇的比例，是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

DHEA to cortisol.

DHEA 转化为皮质醇。

I'd love to tell you I said it backwards on purpose just to make sure everyone understood, but I got it backwards.

我很想告诉你，我故意倒着说，只是为了确保每个人都能理解，但我倒过来了。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

This ratio's been associated with so many things.

这个比率与很多事情有关。

You do have to be careful with association, not being causation, but everything from risk of infections to metabolic health and other disease states, as well as more of what we're talking about, which is, hey, am I getting sort of cortisol dysregulation?

你确实必须小心关联，而不是因果关系，而是从感染风险到代谢健康和其他疾病状态的一切，以及我们正在谈论的更多内容，即，嘿，我是否患有某种皮质醇失调？

Which is what a lot of folks would call Again, adrenal fatigue, even though that's not really what's happening.

这就是很多人所说的“肾上腺疲劳”，尽管事实并非如此。

But if adrenaline and epinephrine are off, and testosterone, cortisol is going to be along the ride.

但如果肾上腺素和肾上腺素关闭，睾丸激素、皮质醇就会随之消失。

And so you can also look at things like testosterone to cortisol ratios.

因此，您还可以查看睾酮与皮质醇的比率等信息。

So there's a lot of things you can glean here to give you some insights into where you're going.

因此，您可以在这里收集很多东西，让您深入了解自己的方向。

If that ratio is too high, that's going to be associated with metabolic syndrome and a bunch of other stuff.

如果这个比例太高，就会与代谢综合征和其他一些疾病有关。

If it's too low, that's going to be associated with a lot of cognitive problems like aggression and mood and a bunch of things like that.

如果它太低，就会与许多认知问题有关，例如攻击性和情绪等。

So again, you want to keep it right around that 0.09 ratio.

同样，您希望将其保持在 0.09 左右。

And most of the time, actually, in some blood chemistry stuff, you'll get a report of that, or you can calculate it pretty quickly.

事实上，大多数时候，在一些血液化学方面，你会得到一份报告，或者你可以很快地计算出来。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm sure we'll get into this in the episode that comes next on nutrition and supplementation.

我确信我们会在下一集有关营养和补充的内容中讨论这个问题。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What about compounds that lower cortisol, such as ashwagandha?

降低皮质醇的化合物（例如南非醉茄）怎么样？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I can see now, based on the logic you're spelling out, that during phases of a lot of intense overreaching or frequent overreaching, given that those compounds can indeed lower cortisol, rhodiola rosea.

我现在可以看到，根据你所阐述的逻辑，在很多强烈的过度行为或频繁的过度行为阶段，考虑到这些化合物确实可以降低皮质醇，红景天。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Rhodiola.

红景天。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Rhodiola rosea.

红景天。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Rosea.

蔷薇科。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Fun word to say.

有趣的话要说。

Two words, but the first one more fun to say.

两个词，但第一个说起来更有趣。

Rhodiola rosea.

红景天。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Rhodiola rosea.

红景天。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Rhodiola rosea-

红景天-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

folks, and ashwagandha.

各位，还有阿什瓦甘达。

I've been trying rhodiola recently, and mainly as a buffer to output.

我最近一直在尝试红景天，主要作为输出的缓冲剂。

It does seem to have some good data attached to it related to lowering one's perceived threshold of how hard they're working.

它似乎确实附有一些与降低人们对工作努力程度的感知阈值相关的良好数据。

So in other words, you can work harder and not feel as if you're working really hard, which allows you to do more work.

换句话说，你可以更加努力地工作，但不会感觉自己真的很努力，这让你可以做更多的工作。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's sort of the subjective description of how it works, but you told me that it can blunt cortisol, and ashwagandha, we know blunts cortisol.

这是对其工作原理的主观描述，但你告诉我它可以减弱皮质醇，而南非醉茄，我们知道可以减弱皮质醇。

Both of these things, of course, can do other things, but are these compounds that you sometimes will incorporate into a training regimen?

当然，这两种物质还可以起到其他作用，但是您有时会将这些化合物纳入训练方案中吗？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I've been using rhodiola for probably six or more years, pretty consistently.

我使用红景天大概有六年或更久了，而且一直坚持使用。

Not personally, but using it with the individuals we work with.

不是针对个人，而是与我们一起工作的个人一起使用它。

You do need to be a little bit careful.

你确实需要小心一点。

I wouldn't say that it blunts cortisol.

我不会说它会削弱皮质醇。

It is probably more appropriately described as a cortisol modulator, which means if it gets too high or too low, it'll help kind of keep it within normative range.

它可能更合适地被描述为皮质醇调节剂，这意味着如果它变得太高或太低，它将有助于将其保持在正常范围内。

It is important to note there have been a handful of studies, two of I know specifically, showed that rhodiola use can enhance strength gains.

重要的是要注意，有一些研究（我特别知道的其中两项）表明，使用红景天可以增强力量增益。

However, it may reduce muscular endurance.

然而，它可能会降低肌肉耐力。

So we need more human data on this stuff, and it may turn out that's not a concern.

所以我们需要更多关于这方面的人类数据，结果可能不是一个问题。

It may also turn out to be a concern.

这也可能成为一个问题。

So nothing is perfect and free.

所以没有什么是完美和免费的。

There's no supplement that is a panacea.

没有任何补充剂是万能的。

And I have used, again, rhodiola in a lot of situations, because the other thing you kind of have to pay attention with the cortisol is it's supposed to be modulated throughout the day.

我在很多情况下都使用过红景天，因为你必须注意皮质醇的另一件事是它应该在一天中得到调节。

It's not supposed to be at this normal value.

它不应该处于这个正常值。

In fact, if you look up normative values, it's typically described in micrograms per deciliter, and depending on literally what company you use to draw your blood, if you're getting it through the blood, depending on which method they use to analyze it, the normative values are frankly embarrassingly all over the place.

事实上，如果你查找标准值，它通常以微克/分升为单位进行描述，并且具体取决于你使用哪家公司来抽血，如果你通过血液获取它，取决于他们使用哪种方法来分析它，坦率地说，标准值到处都是令人尴尬的。

They're mostly going to be five to 25 as a, quote-unquote, normative value, but that's outrageous.

作为一个不带引号的规范值，它们大多是 5 到 25，但这太离谱了。

We also know those numbers vary massively by age, by sex, and throughout the day.

我们还知道这些数字因年龄、性别和一天的不同而有很大差异。

And so if you only are taking a single point, let's assume you're doing a fasted blood draw, which is what most folks do, it's really only going to tell you a lot about what's happening in that moment.

因此，如果您只采集一个点，那么我们假设您正在进行空腹抽血，这是大多数人所做的，它实际上只会告诉您很多有关那一刻发生的事情。

We need to know, well, maybe let's say if I'm a 38-year-old woman and my 7:00 a.m.

我们需要知道，好吧，也许假设我是一名 38 岁的女性，并且我早上 7:00

cortisol was 15 milligrams per deciliter, that's pretty good.

皮质醇含量为每分升 15 毫克，相当不错。

But if it's 15 milligrams per deciliter at 3:00 p.m., ooh, boy, I'm probably having some issues, right?

但如果下午 3:00 的浓度为 15 毫克/分升，哦，天哪，我可能遇到了一些问题，对吧？

So there's a change throughout the day, and you need to be able to plot that curve.

因此，一天中都会发生变化，您需要能够绘制该曲线。

A pretty standard practice that we do is we look at cortisol throughout the day.

我们所做的一个相当标准的做法是全天观察皮质醇。

We're going to take multiple markers, because I don't want to just see your baseline cortisol.

我们将采用多个标记，因为我不想只看到您的基线皮质醇。

I want to see this curve throughout the day.

我想全天看到这条曲线。

That's going to tell me a ton about, again, is your sleep being caused by dysregulation?

这再次告诉我很多关于你的睡眠是否是由失调引起的？

Is it your training?

是你的训练吗？

Is it something else?

难道是别的什么？

So I would take a single baseline blood marker of cortisol with a lot of grain of salt.

所以我会用大量的盐来采集皮质醇的单一基线血液标记物。

We typically measure it at least three times throughout the day, so something like 6:00 to 9:00 a.m., 12:00 to 3:00, and then something closer to the evening.

我们通常一天至少测量三次，例如上午 6:00 至 9:00、12:00 至 3:00，然后是接近晚上的时间。

Oftentimes, we do much more.

很多时候，我们做得更多。

We'll do seven points or something like that throughout the day, depending on the situation.

我们会根据情况全天做七点或类似的事情。

So you want to be careful of that.

所以你要小心这一点。

Just since we're here, you can also get cortisol in through saliva.

正因为我们在这里，你也可以通过唾液获取皮质醇。

And now there's sort of pros and cons to that because the pro of doing it in your blood is it's much more stable.

现在这样做有利有弊，因为在你的血液中这样做的优点是它更加稳定。

Saliva is extremely responsive to whatever happened the seconds before you took that test.

唾液对测试前几秒发生的任何事情都非常敏感。

The upside of it, though, is you can do a bunch of real-world life experiments.

不过，它的好处是你可以做很多现实生活中的实验。

So for example, we will do this sometimes if we want to see how an individual is responding to a given stressor.

例如，如果我们想了解一个人如何应对给定的压力源，我们有时会这样做。

Let's take it, right?

我们就拿走吧，对吗？

Let's take it and then spit it into a tube.

我们把它拿出来然后吐到管子里。

We're going to take it, and then we're going to go do this workout or this cold exposure or whatever we're going to do, take it at the end.

我们要接受它，然后我们要去进行锻炼或寒冷暴露或任何我们要做的事情，最后接受它。

We know that it's responsive to what just happened, but that's the point.

我们知道它会对刚刚发生的事情做出反应，但这就是重点。

There's sort of pros and cons, so you'll use the appropriate measure for the appropriate question you're trying to answer.

有利有弊，因此您将针对您要回答的适当问题使用适当的措施。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

A couple of points and reflections about cortisol.

关于皮质醇的几点和思考。

My first laboratory duty as an undergraduate was actually in a biopsychology lab.

我作为本科生的第一个实验室职责实际上是在生物心理学实验室。

At the time, they didn't have the field Of neuroscience as it's now called.

当时，他们还没有现在所谓的神经科学领域。

It was called biopsychology or psychobiology.

它被称为生物心理学或心理生物学。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I didn't know that.

我不知道。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

No. There was used to be-

不，曾经有——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

That's cool

太酷了

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

neurochemistry, neurobiology.

神经化学、神经生物学。

They had all collapsed into what we now call neuroscience.

它们都陷入了我们现在所说的神经科学。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Right on.

就在。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Which was only-

这只是——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

That's rad

那是拉德

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

some years ago.

几年前。

But my job was to collect cortisol samples, which means I was collecting spit, which means I was collecting saliva.

但我的工作是收集皮质醇样本，这意味着我正在收集唾液，这意味着我正在收集唾液。

And that an advantage of saliva-based cortisol, it's free cortisol, it's the active form.

这是基于唾液的皮质醇的一个优点，它是游离皮质醇，是活性形式。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

As you mentioned, it's reflective of what happened in the seconds or minutes just prior.

正如您所提到的，它反映了前几秒或几分钟内发生的事情。

A couple of things about the regular cortisol pattern across the day, because I realized that while it would be wonderful for everybody to get their cortisol measured in detail multiple times in blood and saliva and so on, some people just won't do that for whatever reason or can't do that.

关于一天中常规皮质醇模式的一些事情，因为我意识到，虽然对每个人来说，在血液和唾液等中多次详细测量皮质醇会很棒，但有些人出于某种原因不会这样做或不能这样做。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The basic contour of a healthy pattern of cortisol secretion is to have highest levels of cortisol in the morning.

健康的皮质醇分泌模式的基本轮廓是早晨皮质醇水平最高。

It is actually part of the mechanism that's associated with waking you up.

它实际上是与唤醒您相关的机制的一部分。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Viewing bright light, ideally from sunlight, but other forms of bright light early in the day, actually can lead to a 50%, five zero percent increase in that cortisol spike, which is a good thing.

观看明亮的光线，最好是阳光，但在一天的早些时候观看其他形式的明亮光线，实际上可以导致皮质醇峰值增加 50%，五个零，这是一件好事。

People hear elevated cortisol, oh no.

人们听到皮质醇升高，哦不。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It just sets in motion a cascade of things related to enhanced mood and alertness, immune system function, et cetera.

它只是启动一系列与增强情绪和警觉性、免疫系统功能等相关的事情。

What I think it can be useful for people to understand is that many things will spike cortisol throughout the day: stress, cold water, exercise.

我认为人们了解很多事情会在一天中使皮质醇升高：压力、冷水、运动。

But the idea is that it comes down to baseline or near baseline rather quickly.

但我们的想法是，它会很快下降到基线或接近基线。

One of the worst situations, as you pointed out, is when the highest level of cortisol is consistently shifted to the afternoon period.

正如您所指出的，最糟糕的情况之一是皮质醇的最高水平持续转移到下午。

In fact, that's a pretty reliable signature of certain forms of depression.

事实上，这是某些形式的抑郁症的一个非常可靠的特征。

This is work by my colleague David Spiegel at Stanford Psychiatry and the great Bob Sapolsky, Robert Sapolsky of "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers"-

这是我在斯坦福大学精神病学的同事大卫·斯皮格尔（David Spiegel）和伟大的鲍勃·萨波尔斯基（Bob Sapolsky）的工作，罗伯特·萨波尔斯基（Robert Sapolsky）在《为什么斑马不会得溃疡》中——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep

是的

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

"Behave," et cetera, and fame.

“循规蹈矩”等等，还有名声。

Lots of popular books there.

那里有很多热门书籍。

I think that if people are trying to regulate their cortisol and they just understand that basic contour, that the baseline should rise pretty quickly after one rises in the morning.

我认为，如果人们试图调节皮质醇，并且他们只是了解基本轮廓，那么基线应该在早上上升后很快上升。

So it's easy to remember, rise, rise.

所以很容易记住，上升，上升。

Rise out of bed and rise cortisol with light, bright light, with exercise, with caffeine.

从床上起来，通过光线、明亮的光线、运动和咖啡因来提高皮质醇。

These things will all increase cortisol.

这些东西都会增加皮质醇。

And then across the day, it's normal for cortisol to spike, but then to use some of the downregulation methods that you described, in particular the breathing methods-

然后在一天中，皮质醇飙升是正常的，但随后使用您描述的一些下调方法，特别是呼吸方法 -

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

and exercise itself as the case may be.

并视情况自行锻炼。

But then to really pay attention to how much psychological and physical stress is occurring in the six hours or so, or eight hours prior to sleep.

但接下来要真正注意在睡前六小时左右或八小时内发生了多少心理和身体压力。

Does that seem like a good sort of broad contour of how to have a healthy pattern of cortisol release?

这似乎是如何拥有健康的皮质醇释放模式的一个很好的大致轮廓？

Because you actually want the cortisol to reduce inflammation and initiate or participate in the recovery process.

因为您实际上希望皮质醇能够减少炎症并启动或参与恢复过程。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

You will not see any progress from exercise training without a large spike in cortisol.

如果皮质醇没有大幅增加，你就不会看到运动训练有任何进展。

It is critically important when we think of phrases like cortisol, inflammation, stress, this is not bad.

当我们想到皮质醇、炎症、压力等短语时，这一点至关重要，这还不错。

Right?

正确的？

Physiology is not personified.

生理学不是拟人化的。

Right?

正确的？

Things don't hate you in the body.

身体里的事物并不讨厌你。

Right?

正确的？

It is all is not good and bad.

这一切都没有好坏之分。

They just are.

他们就是这样。

The more you try to suppress cortisol, the more you suppress adaptation.

你越是试图抑制皮质醇，你就越会抑制适应。

What you want is exactly what you mentioned, large spikes met with large, quick recovery, and you want to do that throughout the day and get that hormetic stressor.

你想要的正是你提到的，大的峰值伴随着大的、快速的恢复，你想要一整天都这样做并获得毒物兴奋剂压力源。

So going back to your ashwagandha and rhodiola issue, I think it would be very shortsighted for people to do that as just a prophylactic.

回到你的南非醉茄和红景天的问题，我认为人们仅仅将其作为预防措施是非常短视的。

Okay?

好的？

Because if you blunt cortisol, you're going to cause immunosuppression.

因为如果你削弱皮质醇，就会导致免疫抑制。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Especially early in the day.

尤其是在当天早些时候。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Taking ashwagandha before going to train is counterproductive.

去训练前服用南非醉茄会适得其反。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

This is not a baseline part of our foundational package.

这不是我们基础包的基线部分。

Right?

正确的？

If you go look at the athlete foundations or the athlete resilience protocols I've put together, you're not going to see these things in there for that specific reason.

如果您查看我整理的运动员基础或运动员恢复力协议，您将不会因为特定原因而在其中看到这些内容。

Any form of cortisol regulation needs to be done strategically.

任何形式的皮质醇调节都需要有策略地进行。

If you are excessively high and we're bringing you back down to normative values at the right time, then great.

如果您的数值过高，而我们在适当的时间让您恢复到正常值，那就太好了。

If you're normal, though, then taking you down lower than that is actually problematic.

但如果你是正常人，那么把你降到低于这个水平实际上是有问题的。

The same thing is actually true, since we're here, for oxidative stress, for inflammation, antioxidant use.

事实上，同样的事情也是如此，因为我们在这里，为了氧化应激、炎症、抗氧化剂的使用。

We mentioned, I think earlier, about taking vitamin C and vitamin E post-exercise will actually blunt adaptations, or at least it has the potential to do so.

我想之前我们提到过，运动后服用维生素 C 和维生素 E 实际上会削弱适应能力，或者至少有可能做到这一点。

Same thing.

同样的事情。

Right?

正确的？

If you're modulating this response just because, and you have not done so because of actual biological testing that indicated you needed to do such, then you actually may be making things worse.

如果你只是因为实际的生物测试表明你需要这样做而调整这种反应，那么你实际上可能会让事情变得更糟。

And so we see this constantly with people who take a number of supplements and substances for sleep, and then they wake up the next morning groggy, and your cortisol is suppressed.

因此，我们经常看到人们服用多种补充剂和物质来睡眠，然后他们第二天早上醒来时昏昏沉沉，皮质醇受到抑制。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

So then they take something for stimulation, and then the rest of the day they're trying to reduce.

所以他们会服用一些东西来刺激，然后在一天中剩下的时间里他们会尝试减少摄入量。

And then they're into this nasty cycle.

然后他们就陷入了这个恶性循环。

Instead of just getting out of the way and letting cortisol do what it's supposed to do, and then making sure, again, you're teaching it.

而不是只是让开，让皮质醇做它应该做的事情，然后再一次确保你在教它。

So this is actually a coachable response.

所以这实际上是一个可指导的反应。

You can coach your own body to go down in the later part of the day and go up in the earlier part of the day.

您可以训练自己的身体在一天的晚些时候下降并在一天的早些时候上升。

You want to make sure that you are driving that train with intent.

您需要确保您是有意驾驶火车的。

And so again, to reiterate, if you don't need that, you shouldn't do it.

再次重申，如果你不需要，就不应该这样做。

Right?

正确的？

If you don't need to lower cortisol, you shouldn't walk around doing it.

如果你不需要降低皮质醇，你就不应该到处走动。

You're just going to suppress the state even far.

你只会进一步压制国家。

And this is needed for anabolic responses.

这是合成代谢反应所必需的。

You're not going to grow muscle if cortisol is not spiked.

如果不增加皮质醇，你就不会长出肌肉。

It's going to compromise it, rather.

相反，它会妥协。

So you want to be intentional with these practices, especially in the form of supplementation.

因此，您需要有意识地进行这些练习，尤其是以补充剂的形式。

Be very intentional.

一定要非常有意识。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I've heard it said that carbohydrates, in particular starchy carbohydrates-

我听说碳水化合物，特别是淀粉类碳水化合物——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Definitely

绝对

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

can inhibit cortisol.

可以抑制皮质醇。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Definitely.

绝对是。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And this could be through the tryptophan amino acid-related pathway that ratchets up to serotonin release, probably some other things, too.

这可能是通过色氨酸氨基酸相关途径加速血清素的释放，也可能是其他一些原因。

The idea that carbohydrates just stimulate serotonin is a little bit overly simplistic.

碳水化合物只会刺激血清素的想法有点过于简单化了。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

No, there's cellular mechanisms.

不，有细胞机制。

AMPK going up and immediately turning it on there.

AMPK 上升并立即将其打开。

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Right.

对。

So, I think We've all experienced this.

所以，我想我们都经历过这一点。

We're stressed.

我们压力很大。

It doesn't necessarily even have to be highly processed, fatty carbohydrates, like potato chips and dip or these kinds of things.

它甚至不一定是经过高度加工的脂肪碳水化合物，例如薯片和蘸酱或此类的东西。

It can also be a bowl of rice, a bowl of oatmeal, a bowl of pasta.

也可以是一碗米饭、一碗燕麦片、一碗面食。

Which here I'm not trying to demonize carbohydrates.

我在这里并不是想妖魔化碳水化合物。

I do ingest carbohydrates, minimally or non-processed carbohydrates most of the time, but not all the time.

我大部分时间都会摄入碳水化合物，最低限度或未加工的碳水化合物，但并非总是如此。

And they have a fairly potent effect on lowering stress and perceived stress and even quality of sleep.

它们对降低压力和感知压力甚至睡眠质量具有相当有效的作用。

Which is not to say that somebody has to load up on them like crazy unless their glycogen is really depleted.

这并不是说有人必须疯狂地增加摄入量，除非他们的糖原真的耗尽了。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Talked a lot about this in the endurance episode.

在耐力赛中对此进行了很多讨论。

I know we'll touch on it more in the nutrition and supplementation episode.

我知道我们会在营养和补充剂的章节中更多地讨论它。

But in thinking about the relationship between carbohydrates and cortisol and what we've just been talking about in terms of cortisol as being vitally important for the adaptation trigger or triggering adaptation is probably a better way to put it, but that it can blunt cortisol taken post-training or maybe in the evening before sleep.

但考虑到碳水化合物和皮质醇之间的关系，以及我们刚才所说的皮质醇对于适应触发至关重要或触发适应可能是更好的说法，但它可以减弱训练后或晚上睡觉前摄入的皮质醇。

What are some of the basic ways that one can think about and maybe use carbohydrates in specific ways in order to, let's say, control cortisol rather than quash cortisol?

人们可以考虑哪些基本方法，或者以特定的方式使用碳水化合物，以便控制皮质醇而不是抑制皮质醇？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

You actually have alluded to it a number of times already.

实际上您已经多次提到过这一点。

So we oftentimes will give people a lot of carbohydrates at night for some of these reasons.

因此，出于某些原因，我们经常会在晚上给人们提供大量碳水化合物。

You're going to feel fantastic.

你会感觉棒极了。

A lot of people, it helps you sleep.

很多人，它可以帮助你入睡。

Both get to sleep and stay asleep, sleep quality.

两者都能入睡并保持睡眠状态，睡眠质量。

You talked about specifically-- remember, think about it this way.

你具体谈到了——记住，这样想。

Cortisol, at its core, is an energy signaling molecule.

皮质醇的核心是一种能量信号分子。

It says we are in the need for energy.

它说我们需要能源。

Great.

伟大的。

Epinephrine's the same way.

肾上腺素也是同样的道理。

You'll start seeing, for example, cortisol will liberate free fatty acids, put them in the bloodstream, get you prepared to do something.

例如，您会开始看到，皮质醇会释放游离脂肪酸，将它们放入血液中，让您准备好做某事。

The problem is if it's continually elevated throughout the day with no downregulation, we start running into issues, right?

问题是，如果它全天持续升高而没有下调，我们就会开始遇到问题，对吗？

So again, this is the differentiation between, "Oh, my cortisol is slightly elevated all day," versus, "I had a really big spike after training.

再说一次，这就是“哦，我的皮质醇一整天都略有升高”与“我在训练后有一个非常大的峰值”之间的区别。

I had a really big spike after a breath protocol, et cetera, and then it went back down." So that being said, if you then ingest carbohydrates, it is quick to see the signal.

在呼吸方案等之后我有一个非常大的峰值，然后又下降了。”话虽如此，如果您随后摄入碳水化合物，很快就会看到信号。

"Oh, we have nutrients.

“哦，我们有营养。

We have energy." Again, specifically carbohydrates, therefore, cortisol can sort of go back down.

我们有能量。”同样，特别是碳水化合物，因此，皮质醇可能会有所下降。

We don't need to be liberating free fatty acids and preparing the need for fuel.

我们不需要释放游离脂肪酸并准备燃料需求。

So you can help yourself go to sleep for many, as you pointed out, many mechanisms actually of why carbohydrates will help you sleep at night.

因此，正如您所指出的，您可以帮助自己入睡，实际上有许多机制可以解释为什么碳水化合物可以帮助您在晚上入睡。

For some, not all people, but some.

对于某些人来说，不是所有人，而是某些人。

That would be one of the relationships it has with cortisol.

这就是它与皮质醇的关系之一。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Great.

太棒了。

I look forward to hearing more about how the various macronutrients and micronutrients and so-called adaptogens, this very mysterious group of

我期待听到更多关于各种大量营养素和微量营养素以及所谓的适应原（这一非常神秘的群体）的信息

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

compounds.

化合物。

The word adaptogen gets thrown around so much nowadays.

如今，“适应原”这个词被广泛使用。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Sure.

当然。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But as long as we're talking about adaptation, I think that'll be fair play for the discussion in the next episode about nutrition and supplementation.

但只要我们谈论适应，我认为这对于下一集有关营养和补充的讨论来说是公平的。

In my laboratory, when we study stress, we use a number of different markers, subjective reports of how stressed people feel.

在我的实验室中，当我们研究压力时，我们使用许多不同的标记，即人们感受到压力的主观报告。

Heart rate, morning heart rate, heart rate variability, cortisol, free cortisol, and on and on.

心率、早晨心率、心率变异性、皮质醇、游离皮质醇等等。

What are some of the other markers of stress as it relates to exercise adaptations and recovery?

与运动适应和恢复相关的压力的其他一些标志是什么？

Because once again, I think we're seeing a lot of parallels between the study of psychological stress-

因为我认为我们再次看到心理压力研究之间有很多相似之处——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

and the study of physical stress as it relates to exercise adaptation.

以及与运动适应相关的身体压力研究。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Remember, in terms of physiology, stress is stress.

请记住，从生理学角度来说，压力就是压力。

This is why we have this cool term allostatic load or allostasis, such that it really doesn't matter which system you test for, it will reflect overall stress.

这就是为什么我们有这个很酷的术语“Allostatic Load”或“Allostasis”，因此无论您测试哪个系统，它都会反映整体压力。

You mentioned several of them.

你提到了其中几个。

We've got done talking about some biomarkers.

我们已经讨论完了一些生物标志物。

HRV and heart rate are another great example because what you're trying to do is this.

HRV 和心率是另一个很好的例子，因为您要做的就是这个。

When we were talking about the muscle soreness thing, what we were really getting at was a marker of how do I fix the overuse in that particular muscle?

当我们谈论肌肉酸痛时，我们真正想要了解的是如何修复该特定肌肉的过度使用？

Now we've really transitioned into global markers of overuse and why these are problematic or important to pay attention to, rather, is again, these are the indicators that you didn't just work a muscle out too hard, but you have actually done something where you've compromised all of your physiology to a level where you've influenced a circulating catecholamine or something that's going to influence multiple markers now like your sleep and your mood and your behavior.

现在我们已经真正转变为过度使用的全球标志，为什么这些是有问题或重要的需要注意的，更确切地说，这些指标表明你不仅仅是过度锻炼肌肉，而是你实际上做了一些损害你所有生理机能的事情，达到了影响循环儿茶酚胺或现在会影响多个标志的东西，比如你的睡眠、你的情绪和你的行为。

So that's why these things are problematic.

所以这就是为什么这些事情是有问题的。

That said, you could look at resting heart rate, not a bad thing to do.

也就是说，您可以查看静息心率，这并不是一件坏事。

However, that does have multiple downsides.

然而，这确实有多个缺点。

One thing we do know is your resting heart rate will elevate with excessive stress load.

我们确实知道的一件事是，您的静息心率会因过度的压力负荷而升高。

This actually doesn't matter if it is physical stress or psychological stress or a combination.

事实上，无论是身体压力、心理压力还是两者的结合，这并不重要。

So you will see that number drift up over time.

所以你会看到这个数字随着时间的推移而上升。

Here's the downside, though.

但这是缺点。

It's not tremendously sensitive to smaller stressors.

它对较小的压力源并不是非常敏感。

In other words, if you were to do something like alcohol is a very good example.

换句话说，如果你要做一些事情，比如喝酒就是一个很好的例子。

You will see your resting heart rate elevate with alcohol use, excessive tobacco use, and psychological stress.

您会发现您的静息心率因饮酒、过度吸烟和心理压力而升高。

However, if you do something smaller like hard training sessions, resting heart rate's not sensitive enough to pick that up.

然而，如果你做一些较小的事情，比如艰苦的训练，静息心率就不够敏感，无法检测到这一点。

It will actually probably stay the same.

它实际上可能会保持不变。

So for those reasons, we don't actually use resting heart rate that much.

因此，出于这些原因，我们实际上并没有那么多地使用静息心率。

We will take it, but it's not our primary indicator.

我们会接受它，但这不是我们的主要指标。

That being said, HRV is a better use.

话虽这么说，HRV 是更好的用途。

So just really quickly, for those that are not familiar, your heart rate, let's say, for example, your resting heart rate is 60 beats per minute.

所以，对于那些不熟悉您的心率的人来说，请非常快地讲一下，例如，您的静息心率是每分钟 60 次。

That means every second it's beating.

这意味着它的每一秒都在跳动。

It doesn't actually happen on a consistent rhythm such that it would beat on second one, beat on second two, beat on second three, et cetera.

它实际上并没有以一致的节奏发生，比如它会在第二个节拍，在第二个节拍，在第二个节拍，等等。

The rate is more variable.

利率变化较大。

So it might go beat, beat, beat, beat, beat, beat.

所以它可能会节拍、节拍、节拍、节拍、节拍、节拍。

There's a variation in the heart rate.

心率有变化。

And at the end of that 60 seconds, in this example, you would've still completed 60 beats.

在本例中，60 秒结束时，您仍然完成了 60 次节拍。

They just aren't on the exact same pattern.

他们只是不遵循完全相同的模式。

Well, one thing that's actually quite interesting is The amount of variation in your heart rate is actually associated with your overall sympathetic or parasympathetic state, such that a large variation, so an arrhythmic pattern, is generally more representative of being more rested and recovered and being more parasympathetic.

嗯，实际上非常有趣的一件事是，心率的变化量实际上与您的整体交感神经或副交感神经状态相关，因此较大的变化（即心律失常模式）通常更能代表得到更多休息和恢复以及副交感神经更加活跃。

And you'll notice during times of extremely high stress, you will be very rhythmic.

你会发现，在压力极大的时候，你会很有节奏。

Beat, beat, beat, beat, beat.

打，打，打，打，打。

And so this is a little bit of a confusing idea, but a high HRV is there indicated of a lot of variation, meaning you're pretty recovered.

所以这是一个有点令人困惑的想法，但高 HRV 表明有很多变化，这意味着您已经恢复得很好。

A low HRV, meaning there's not a lot of variation, means you're probably pretty stressed and wired.

HRV 较低，意味着变化不大，意味着您可能压力很大且紧张。

So it's related to heart rate, but in my opinion, it is a significantly better marker of that.

所以它与心率有关，但在我看来，它是一个更好的标记。

Now, one thing you want to pay attention to if you do this, a couple of things.

现在，如果您这样做，您需要注意一件事，几件事。

There are some accuracy issues with many of the devices.

许多设备都存在一些准确性问题。

Basically, everybody at this point probably has some device that's telling them their HRV.

基本上，此时每个人都可能有一些设备可以告诉他们他们的 HRV。

What you do not want to do is simply compare your number to somebody else for a lot of reasons.

由于多种原因，您不想做的只是将您的号码与其他人进行比较。

Not all of these technologies are actually even measuring the same thing.

并非所有这些技术实际上都在测量相同的东西。

Again, some of them are actually combining it with other metrics and calling it your overall readiness or your recovery.

同样，其中一些人实际上将其与其他指标结合起来，并将其称为您的整体准备情况或恢复情况。

And so now what we've actually done is made a couple of assumptions and then stacked them on a whole host of other assumptions, and then given you a number.

所以现在我们实际上所做的是做出几个假设，然后将它们叠加到一大堆其他假设上，然后给你一个数字。

And you don't know what that sort of black box score actually even represents.

而且你不知道这种黑匣子分数实际上代表什么。

So I would caution, one, against taking too much information from that.

因此，我要警告的是，第一，不要从中获取太多信息。

If you are actually measuring HRV, even within that, there's lots of ways to calculate it that are not important here.

如果您实际上正在测量 HRV，即使在此范围内，也有很多计算方法，但在这里并不重要。

So don't necessarily worry about the score, and then compare it to yourself but not to others.

所以不一定要担心分数，然后和自己比较，而不是和别人比较。

What you will see is if you use similar devices and techniques, it's hard to find data here, but in general, people that are overweight might have a little bit of a lower score, as in a worse score.

您将看到的是，如果您使用类似的设备和技术，则很难在这里找到数据，但总的来说，超重的人的分数可能会稍低一些，比如分数更差。

We need more information on that to be clear.

我们需要更多相关信息才能清楚。

So in large part, the best way to use something like HRV is to measure it under the exact same circumstances every day.

因此，在很大程度上，使用 HRV 之类的工具的最佳方法是每天在完全相同的情况下进行测量。

So whether you're going to use just a device on your watch or your phone or your bed or anything else, or you're going to buy a special HRV monitor, it's fine.

因此，无论您是只使用手表、手机、床上或其他任何设备上的设备，还是购买特殊的 HRV 监测器，都可以。

Just take that measure at the same time.

只要同时采取该措施即可。

Mostly, this means first thing in the morning.

大多数情况下，这意味着早上的第一件事。

So you wake up, you go to the bathroom, you come back down, take your measure, or something like that.

所以你醒来，去洗手间，回来，测量身体，或者类似的事情。

You don't wait.

你不等。

Sometimes you take it before food, then after, or look at your phone, all these other things that can influence stress.

有时你会在饭前服用，然后饭后服用，或者看手机，所有这些都会影响压力的事情。

So take it, and it usually takes somewhere between seconds to minutes to record.

因此，记录下来通常需要几秒到几分钟的时间。

So you want to pay attention to that.

所以你要注意这一点。

Now, one of the things you'll notice is there is a natural change in your HRV that just happens.

现在，您会注意到的一件事是您的 HRV 发生了自然变化。

And so what you kind of really want to pay attention to is, I guess, answering the question of, "Well, how much of a change in HRV has to happen before I should care?" And it's hard to answer.

因此，我想，你真正想要关注的是回答这样的问题：“那么，HRV 必须发生多大的变化，我才应该关心？”这很难回答。

So let's just say your HRV was 100.

假设您的 HRV 为 100。

I just made that number up.

我刚刚编了这个数字。

What if you wake up tomorrow and it's 99?

如果你明天醒来发现已经是 99 了怎么办？

What's that mean?

那是什么意思？

Well, I don't know.

嗯，我不知道。

If you wake up tomorrow and it's 20, that's probably a bad thing.

如果你明天醒来发现已经是 20 点，那可能是一件坏事。

Well, where's that line?

那么，那条线在哪里？

It's hard.

这很难。

One thing I would recommend doing is taking your HRV for at least a month before you start using that value to make any changes.

我建议做的一件事是，在开始使用该值进行任何更改之前，至少测量您的 HRV 一个月。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And you recommend taking it first thing in the morning?

你建议早上第一件事就是服用它？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Always at roughly the same time.

总是在大致相同的时间。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Basically.

基本上。

Under the same circumstances.

同等情况下。

It doesn't have to be technically in the morning, but because your day will change on most days of what you get into, that's the most stable thing in your life.

从技术上讲，它不一定是在早上，但因为你的一天在你所经历的大部分日子里都会发生变化，所以这是你一生中最稳定的事情。

So I would take it then, and I would collect it for at least a day, or at least a month rather, maybe even six weeks, and then give yourself basically a running average.

所以我会收集它，至少一天，或者至少一个月，甚至六周，然后给自己一个基本的运行平均值。

So what we quite honestly do is we will actually track it for forever, and then what we always look at is what does it look like today relative to the last week on average, and then what does that look like to our historical average?

因此，我们诚实地做的是，我们实际上将永远跟踪它，然后我们总是关注今天相对于上周的平均情况，然后与我们的历史平均值相比，情况又如何？

And we always compare those things.

我们总是比较这些事情。

And you also want to make sure you compare like to like.

而且你还想确保你比较喜欢的东西。

So in other words, I generally am not going to worry about today's HRV score relative to tomorrow's.

换句话说，我通常不会担心今天相对于明天的 HRV 分数。

What I want to look at is today's relative to this exact same day last week.

我想看的是今天与上周同一天的相对情况。

Not for athletes, but for non-athletes.

不是针对运动员，而是针对非运动员。

This is very important.

这非常重要。

So imagine, don't worry about the difference between HRV score on Monday compared to Tuesday.

所以想象一下，不要担心周一和周二的 HRV 分数之间的差异。

Pay attention to Monday compared to last Monday and the Monday before that.

注意周一与上周一和之前周一的比较。

That's because you typically have the same sort of weekly schedule, and what you don't want to do is, say, look at Monday's HRV score, which is a reflection of what happened Sunday, and compare that to Tuesday's, which is actually a reflection of what happened Monday.

这是因为您通常有相同的每周时间表，而您不想做的就是查看周一的 HRV 分数（它反映了周日发生的情况），然后将其与周二的 HRV 分数进行比较，这实际上反映了周一发生的情况。

You probably didn't do the same stressors on Sunday as Monday, so you're not actually comparing the same thing.

周日你可能没有做与周一相同的压力源，所以你实际上并没有比较同一件事。

But if you have a general weekly schedule, you're likely to compare this Monday's relative to last Monday's because they're both comparing what happened on the previous days.

但是，如果您有一个总体的每周日程安排，您可能会比较本周一与上周一的相对情况，因为它们都在比较前几天发生的事情。

So did that sort of distinction make sense?

那么这种区别有意义吗？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Absolutely.

绝对的。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I do the same thing with body weight, by the way, if you're trying to track body mass gain or fat loss or something.

顺便说一句，如果你想追踪体重增加或脂肪减少或其他什么，我也会对体重做同样的事情。

Compare like to like.

比较喜欢与喜欢。

You can look at the daily changes, but you need to pay attention to what that normal distribution is.

你可以看每天的变化，但你需要注意正态分布是什么。

So if you kind of do that Monday to Monday thing, that'll give you a rough area of saying, "Okay, my normal weekly variation is, say, five.

因此，如果你周一到周一都做这件事，你就会大致说：“好吧，我正常的每周变化是，比方说，五。

So my average is 100, but I will fluctuate between 95 to 105.

所以我的平均值是100，但我会在95到105之间波动。

That's my standard deviation," is sort of what us science dorks would call that.

这是我的标准差”，这就是我们科学呆子所说的。

If you start changing more than 5% outside of your normal standard deviation, then I'm going to start paying attention a little bit.

如果您的变化开始超出正常标准差 5% 以上，那么我将开始稍微注意一下。

And I'm going to actually run a little bit of an algorithm on this one.

我将在这个问题上实际运行一些算法。

And so here is my thinking process.

这是我的思考过程。

When I get HRV, really any metric, but HRV is the example we're using.

当我得到 HRV 时，实际上是任何指标，但 HRV 是我们使用的示例。

First step, did I collect good data?

第一步，我是否收集到了好的数据？

And by that, I mean, again, did I measure it the same way I measured every single day, or did I get up and look at my phone first, and I realized, "Oh, crap, I forgot to take my HRV," and then I went back and got there.

我的意思是，我是否以每天测量的方式测量它，或者我是否起床并先看我的手机，然后我意识到，“哦，糟糕，我忘了拿我的 HRV”，然后我回去并到达那里。

So say I had a 15% derivation from my normal number, and then I realized, "Oh yeah, that's right, I was up super late last night doing whatever." Okay, great.

假设我的数字与正常数字有 15% 的偏差，然后我意识到，“哦，是的，没错，我昨晚睡得很晚，正在做任何事情。”好的，太好了。

I'm going to consider that bad data.

我将考虑那些糟糕的数据。

You didn't-- Good.

你没有——很好。

If it's bad data, then I'm not doing anything.

如果数据不好，那么我什么也不做。

Ignore.

忽略。

It's bad data.

这是坏数据。

You throw it out.

你把它扔掉。

You don't use it.

你不使用它。

If you decide, for the most part, let's assume it was good data.

如果您决定，在大多数情况下，我们假设这是好的数据。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

Then I'm going on to my next question, which is: Is it acute?

然后我继续我的下一个问题，那就是：它很严重吗？

In other words, is it just today?

换句话说，只是今天吗？

Or is it chronic?

或者是慢性的？

In other words, has this pattern been happening for more than five days, or at least three out of the last four, something like that.

换句话说，这种模式是否已经发生超过五天，或者过去四天中至少有三天，类似的情况。

Three minimum is what I like.

至少三个是我喜欢的。

Honestly, I generally look at five or more days.

老实说，我一般会看五天或更多天。

That's a very big distinction.

这是一个非常大的区别。

If it is something that just happened today, then the next question I'm going to ask myself is, am I in that adaptation phase?

如果这是今天刚刚发生的事情，那么我要问自己的下一个问题是，我是否处于适应阶段？

Am I trying to be in a phase where I'm trying to cause an insult to the body that it needs to respond with?

我是否试图进入这样一个阶段：我试图对身体造成侮辱，而身体需要做出反应？

If that is the case, I'm just going to ignore it.

如果是这样的话，我只会忽略它。

In fact, it's almost sometimes a good sign.

事实上，有时这几乎是一个好兆头。

Hey, we are stressing the body, and it is stressed.

嘿，我们给身体带来压力，它也有压力。

What we're doing is working.

我们正在做的事情正在发挥作用。

Amazing.

惊人的。

In fact, if you don't see that, it's sort of like, hmm, maybe we're not doing enough to push the pace.

事实上，如果你没有看到这一点，那就有点像，嗯，也许我们在加快步伐方面做得还不够。

All right.

好的。

So we're great.

所以我们很棒。

If the answer is no, we're in a peaking phase, then we're actually going to use what I call acute state shifters.

如果答案是否定的，那么我们正处于高峰阶段，那么我们实际上将使用我所说的急性状态转移器。

So this is a whole host of little tricks that I have that can change HRV or any recovery metric within seconds.

因此，这是我拥有的一系列小技巧，可以在几秒钟内改变 HRV 或任何恢复指标。

Again, these are not chronic fixes.

再次强调，这些都不是长期解决办法。

This is just, I'm having a bad day today.

只是，我今天过得很糟糕。

I feel like crap.

我觉得自己很糟糕。

Can I make myself feel better right now?

我现在能让自己感觉好点吗？

And so I call these parlor tricks a lot of the times.

所以我很多时候称这些为客厅技巧。

And there's 1,000 of them.

其中有 1,000 个。

We are certainly not going to go over them, but I'll give you some examples.

我们当然不会去讨论它们，但我会给你一些例子。

You can pull out, first of all, physical movement will do it.

你可以拔出来，首先，身体运动就可以了。

You'd be stunned how just doing some yoga, moving around, doing some jumping jacks, starting your workout.

你会惊讶地发现，仅仅做一些瑜伽、四处走动、做一些开合跳、开始锻炼就可以了。

You've probably experienced this.

你可能经历过这个。

It's sort of cliché in our world at this point, but if you ever do any serious lifting over a serious amount of time, there will be days in which you walk into the gym and you feel awful.

在这一点上，这在我们的世界里有点陈词滥调，但如果你曾经在很长一段时间内进行过任何认真的举重训练，那么有时候你走进健身房时会感觉很糟糕。

And somehow that day you set a lifetime PR.

不知怎的，那天你设定了一生的公关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, that's a strange phenomenon.

是的，这是一个奇怪的现象。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I've experienced that more than a few times.

我已经经历过不止几次了。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Right.

对。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's rare.

这是很少见的。

The inverse is rare, however.

然而，相反的情况很少见。

You feel great, you have a horrible workout.

你感觉很好，但你的锻炼很糟糕。

It happens.

它发生了。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And it can happen for any number of different reasons.

这种情况的发生可能有多种不同的原因。

But yeah, I think the former, when one isn't feeling very good and then somehow it's a terrific workout, does set a kind of a seed of doubt as to how good our subjective assessments-

但是，是的，我认为前者，当一个人感觉不太好，但不知何故这是一次很棒的锻炼时，确实对我们的主观评估有多好产生了一种怀疑的种子——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep

是的

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

really are.

真的是。

Which I guess is why we're talking about objective assessments-

我想这就是我们谈论客观评估的原因-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep

是的

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

like HRV.

像心率变异性。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

And remember, if it's a single day here, you can even do hard training.

请记住，如果只是在这里呆一天，您甚至可以进行艰苦的训练。

People sort of have this idea like, well, if you get up and your recovery score's down, do a lighter day.

人们有这样的想法，比如，如果你起床后恢复分数下降了，那就度过轻松的一天。

I'm probably never making that choice, to be honest.

老实说，我可能永远不会做出这样的选择。

Not in this situation.

不是在这种情况下。

Remember, this is one bad day, and we are in a phase of even trying to improve performance right now.

请记住，这是糟糕的一天，我们现在正处于努力提高性能的阶段。

We're probably still training hard.

我们可能还在努力训练。

You'll, again, often see, "I felt terrible, then I trained super hard, and it totally changed my day around." This all can happen.

你会再次经常看到，“我感觉很糟糕，然后我非常努力地训练，这完全改变了我的一天。”这一切都有可能发生。

So exercise is my first love here.

所以锻炼是我在这里的最爱。

Absolutely breathing.

绝对呼吸。

Any sort of upregulation breathing.

任何形式的上调呼吸。

So we talked a lot about downregulation breathing.

所以我们讨论了很多关于下调呼吸的问题。

Just do the opposite.

只是做相反的事情。

And so this is when hyperventilation strategies can work.

这就是过度换气策略发挥作用的时候。

Instead of accentuating the exhale, you accentuate the inhale, or you restrict the exhales.

你不是强调呼气，而是强调吸气，或者限制呼气。

This is working on the exact opposite situation.

这是在完全相反的情况下进行的。

You can also play little...

还可以玩小...

This is where things like music, motivational quotes, if you're the type that follows people on Instagram that motivate you or can work with these things.

如果你是那种在 Instagram 上关注那些能激励你的人或者可以使用这些东西的人，那么这里就是音乐、励志名言之类的东西。

Coaching tactics.

教练战术。

These can be things like finding out or talking about that person's why.

这些可以是找出或谈论那个人的原因之类的事情。

You sort of shared something, a mantra you use when you're training hard to keep you go better.

你分享了一些东西，当你努力训练以让自己表现得更好时使用的口头禅。

I'm not going to ask you to share that now, but some people have this sometimes.

我现在不会要求你分享这一点，但有些人有时会遇到这种情况。

Or you may have this conversation with your athlete.

或者您可以与您的运动员进行这样的对话。

We call this finding out your why.

我们称之为“找出原因”。

So finding out why are you really here?

那么找出你为什么在这里吗？

What are we doing here?

我们在这里做什么？

And a lot of times you'll hear things like, "It's because I grew up poor, and I don't ever want to be poor again." Okay, great.

很多时候你会听到这样的话：“因为我从小就贫穷，我不想再贫穷了。”好的，太好了。

Or, "This is for my children," or any number of things, and you can pull that out on these days.

或者，“这是给我的孩子们的”，或者任何其他的事情，这些天你都可以把它拿出来。

You need to be really careful.

你需要非常小心。

This is why I call these parlor tricks.

这就是为什么我称这些为客厅技巧。

Because when you play that card too often, it starts to lose effect.

因为当你太频繁地使用这张牌时，它就会开始失去效果。

And you can only dig through a hole so often before it's sort of like a...

在一个洞变得有点像之前，你只能经常挖洞。

The same thing is with music.

音乐也是如此。

Every time you go to the weight room, it's blasting death metal at level 10.

每次你去举重室时，都会听到 10 级的死亡金属。

Well, eventually it's no longer motivating.

好吧，最终它不再有动力了。

It's no longer helpful.

它不再有帮助了。

So you want to deploy these things strategically.

所以你想战略性地部署这些东西。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

The phrase that comes to mind is signal to noise.

我想到的短语是“信噪比”。

The nervous system, especially the dopamine system and the adrenaline system, which are a part of this larger system called the catecholamine system.

神经系统，特别是多巴胺系统和肾上腺素系统，它们是儿茶酚胺系统这个更大系统的一部分。

So that's dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine.

这就是多巴胺、肾上腺素、去甲肾上腺素。

The get up and go, focus on external goals, movement associated, and on and on.

起身出发，专注于外部目标、相关运动，等等。

That system responds best to high signal-

该系统对高信号反应最好-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Absolutely

绝对

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

relative to noise.

相对于噪音。

So if you're, as you pointed out, listening to music every time, drinking a ton of caffeine, energy drinks, pre-workout, nootropics, and then stacking all those things, I sometimes refer to this as dopamine stacking.

因此，正如您所指出的，如果您每次都听音乐，喝大量的咖啡因、能量饮料、锻炼前药物、促智药，然后堆积所有这些东西，我有时将其称为多巴胺堆积。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Informally refer to it as dopamine stacking.

非正式地将其称为多巴胺堆积。

You're doing all those things, and then, first of all, then you're wondering why later that afternoon or the next day you're feeling like you're under a cloud.

你正在做所有这些事情，然后，首先，你想知道为什么那天下午晚些时候或第二天你感觉自己在阴云之下。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

You're smacked.

你被打了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Well, it's obvious.

嗯，很明显。

Your catecholamine system crashed.

你的儿茶酚胺系统崩溃了。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But it's also that you don't necessarily become dependent on it.

但也在于你不一定会依赖它。

It's just that you start to wonder whether or not you have the internal mechanisms and motivation to train without those things, and so one tends to use them more and more, and then they have a diminishing effect over time.

只是你开始怀疑自己是否有内在的机制和动力去训练，没有这些东西，所以人们倾向于越来越多地使用它们，然后随着时间的推移它们的效果逐渐减弱。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Bingo.

宾果游戏。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The rule that I've been sort of applying has been I never do two workouts in a row where I'm stacking in stimulants, loud music, and any kind of sort of high-potency inspiration.

我一直遵循的规则是，我从来不会连续进行两次锻炼，因为我会在其中充满兴奋剂、喧闹的音乐和任何类型的高效灵感。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

However, every set in the gym or when I run, I really try and be diligent about form and attention to what I'm doing.

然而，在健身房的每组训练或跑步时，我都会努力保持姿势并注意自己正在做的事情。

The one exception would be the long-duration endurance work.

一个例外是长时间的耐力工作。

Part of the reason I do that work is to let my mind go into states of drifting.

我做这项工作的部分原因是让我的思绪进入漂流状态。

I'm not trying to think in complete sentences or even close to it.

我并不想用完整的句子或接近的句子来思考。

Just let my brain kind of idle at a low hum.

让我的大脑在低沉的嗡嗡声中闲置。

And for that reason, generally listen to something that's more of a story, or don't listen to anything at all and just let my thoughts kind of spool through.

出于这个原因，一般来说，听一些更像是故事的东西，或者根本不听任何东西，只是让我的想法通过。

Anyway, I don't want to take us too far off track, but I think this idea of signal to noise will resonate with the engineers out there.

不管怎样，我不想让我们偏离轨道太远，但我认为这种信噪比的想法会引起工程师们的共鸣。

But since most people are likely-

但由于大多数人可能——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

not engineers, it is the way that the nervous system works, evidenced by the fact that whatever area of your body right now is in contact with a chair or any other surface that it's been in contact with for more than a few seconds, you forget that it's in contact with it-

不是工程师，这是神经系统的工作方式，事实证明，无论你身体的任何部位现在与椅子或任何其他表面接触超过几秒钟，你都会忘记它正在与它接触-

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Totally

完全

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

because there's low signal to noise at that point.

因为此时的信噪比很低。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

A similar note, you actually mentioned stimulants basically there, whether you're talking caffeine or any other stimulant, any other cortisol modulators or adaptogens, any of these things fall in the category.

类似的说明，您实际上基本上提到了兴奋剂，无论您是在谈论咖啡因还是任何其他兴奋剂，任何其他皮质醇调节剂或适应原，所有这些东西都属于这一类别。

If you're not using them consistently and you're having a rough day, and all of a sudden you throw down 200 milligrams of caffeine, it's going to change real fast, the equation.

如果你没有持续使用它们，并且你度过了艰难的一天，突然你摄入了 200 毫克咖啡因，那么情况就会很快发生变化。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's strong performance-enhancing effect.

这是强大的绩效提升效果。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah, absolutely, and for these reasons, right?

是的，绝对如此，并且出于这些原因，对吧？

So we mentioned a couple of them, breathwork, food, more calories, just eating some food.

所以我们提到了其中的几个，呼吸，食物，更多的卡路里，只是吃一些食物。

Sometimes we'll give people what we call comfort foods.

有时我们会给人们提供所谓的舒适食品。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm.

嗯。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

So this is just like, "Hey, you're from Georgia, and we know you love grits, so we're having grits for breakfast." "Oh, my, great." Just something to change your mood, acute state shifters to alter it.

所以这就像，“嘿，你来自佐治亚州，我们知道你喜欢粗玉米粉，所以我们早餐吃粗玉米粉。” “哦，天啊，太好了。”只是一些改变你情绪的东西，敏锐的状态转变器来改变它。

The other couple of tricks here are light.

这里的其他几个技巧很简单。

So if we know that maybe, say, multiple people are struggling that day, maybe we'll put on the lights extra bright.

因此，如果我们知道那天可能有很多人都在挣扎，也许我们会把灯开得特别亮。

We'll bring in some-

我们会带来一些——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm

嗯嗯

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

...

extra things and just get more light in there.

额外的东西，只是让那里有更多的光线。

It doesn't even count actually going outside and seeing the sun, but perhaps we'll do that.

实际上出去看看太阳甚至不算，但也许我们会这么做。

And then other little tricks that I've learned over the years is, one particular thing I love is literally drawing a line, a physical line in the ground.

多年来我学到的其他小技巧是，我喜欢的一件特别的事情就是在地上画一条线，一条物理线。

And you look at that line, and you say, "I'm going to train today, and I'm going to accomplish this effort.

你看着那条线，然后说：“我今天要训练，我要完成这项工作。

I'm not going to walk past this line and into that training space until I'm ready to give that effort." And that may take a minute or 10 or whatever.

在我准备好付出努力之前，我不会越过这条线进入训练空间。”这可能需要一分钟或十分钟或更长的时间。

But the physical barrier is very important to saying, "I'm not just going to get through it.

但物理障碍对于说“我不只是要克服它”来说非常重要。

I'm going to actually perform the way I want to perform, or I'm not going to do it, and I'm not going to cross this line until I'm ready to make that happen."

我实际上会按照我想要的方式表演，或者我不会这样做，而且在我准备好实现这一目标之前，我不会跨越这条线。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I really like that tool.

我真的很喜欢这个工具。

It also brings to mind the importance of at least thinking about how your relationship with your phone during training can perhaps help but also impede workout motivation and performance.

它还让我想起至少要考虑一下训练期间你与手机的关系如何可能有助于但也会阻碍锻炼动机和表现的重要性。

In an earlier episode, you mentioned that if people are using their phone to play music during their workout, that they establish the complete playlist prior to initiating the workout and then not deviate from that playlist, as opposed to changing it in the middle because there's just too much of an impulse to also check social media, check email, check text messages.

在之前的一集中，您提到，如果人们在锻炼期间使用手机播放音乐，他们会在开始锻炼之前建立完整的播放列表，然后不要偏离该播放列表，而不是在中间更改它，因为人们太冲动去检查社交媒体、检查电子邮件、检查短信。

The way I think about the phone, actually, is it's a bunch of little brain areas.

事实上，我对手机的看法是，它是一堆小大脑区域。

It's got a memory system for you.

它有一个适合你的记忆系统。

It's got lookup tables for...

它有查找表...

Lookup tables.

查找表。

It's got websites to look things up on the Internet.

它有网站可以在互联网上查找内容。

It's got photos.

有照片啊

It is so rich with sensory data.

它的感官数据非常丰富。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And it's so closely linked to our own brain architecture, the algorithms are designed for those to be that way, that I always think about it as bringing in a second person with me.

它与我们自己的大脑结构密切相关，算法是为这种方式而设计的，所以我总是认为这是让第二个人和我一起。

But that person is my twin that has severe attention issues.

但那个人是我的双胞胎，有严重的注意力问题。

And for those that already have attention issues, just think about this as a twin that would then compound you by tapping on your shoulder, talking to you all the time, interrupting you.

对于那些已经有注意力问题的人来说，只需将其想象为双胞胎，然后通过拍拍你的肩膀、一直与你交谈、打断你来复合你。

Somebody that you like a lot, but that frankly is a little bit irritating in that they're interrupting your ability to really show up, and also your ability to show up for them.

你很喜欢的人，但坦率地说，这有点令人恼火，因为他们干扰了你真正表现出来的能力，也干扰了你为他们表现的能力。

So I started to think about the phone as an entire individual, and that it represents me and certainly not the better version of me.

所以我开始将手机视为一个完整的个体，它代表了我，当然不是更好版本的我。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Great.

太棒了。

Exactly.

确切地。

You actually mentioned something else that we'll use occasionally, which what we call brain games or puzzles.

你实际上提到了我们偶尔会使用的其他东西，我们称之为脑力游戏或谜题。

Whether this is a crossword puzzle or something where you actually lose your thought of self for a second, and your brain gets engaged in a task that you weren't regretting or even thinking about.

无论这是一个填字游戏，还是让你暂时失去自我的想法，你的大脑开始从事一项你不后悔甚至没有想过的任务。

These can be stupid little games.

这些可能是愚蠢的小游戏。

It could be little challenges, especially if you're in a group or a team setting.

这可能是一个小挑战，特别是当你在一个团体或团队环境中时。

Like, "We're going to play one round of dodgeball," or, "We're going to play one round of thumb wars."

比如，“我们要玩一轮躲避球”，或者“我们要玩一轮拇指大战”。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So you do encourage this?

那么你确实鼓励这样做吗？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I see.

我明白了。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

So you would play a thing instead of warming up, it's like, "All right, get in.

所以你会玩一些东西而不是热身，就像，“好吧，进去吧。

Everyone get going.

大家都出发吧。

Get your foam roller, your diam," or whatever thing.

拿起你的泡沫轴，你的直径，”或者其他什么东西。

It's just like, "All right, everyone line up, and we're going to play thumb wars to see who wins." Just like whatever.

就像，“好吧，每个人都排队，我们要玩拇指大战，看看谁赢了。”就像任何事一样。

And all of a sudden, you've snapped into a new mental shift.

突然之间，你的心理发生了新的转变。

Or literally playing brain games, playing "Tetris" on your phone.

或者直接玩脑力游戏，在手机上玩“俄罗斯方块”。

Any of these things can work in this acute setting.

这些事情中的任何一个都可以在这种紧急情况下发挥作用。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Can I ask you a question?

我可以问你一个问题吗？

It's not directly related to recovery per se, but I think it's worth mentioning or asking about, rather, which is the use of mirrors or no mirrors while training.

它与恢复本身没有直接关系，但我认为值得一提或询问的是，训练时使用镜子还是不使用镜子。

The experience of seeing oneself and observing one's form in the mirror, I suppose, has some utility.

我想，在镜子里看到自己和观察自己的形体的经历是有一定用处的。

You can get some sense of progress that you might trigger.

你可以获得一些可能触发的进步感。

Here I'm almost specifically referring to resistance training.

这里我几乎专门指的是阻力训练。

I suppose it could be cardio if you're running on a treadmill or pushing a sled or something.

我想如果你在跑步机上跑步或者推雪橇什么的，它可能是有氧运动。

But you can see form.

但你可以看到形式。

You can get a sense of what your face looks like when you grimace.

当你做鬼脸时，你可以感觉到你的脸是什么样子。

But in all seriousness, you are, without question, a person, not you, Andy, but one is in a less interoceptive mode when looking at themselves in the mirror.

但严肃地说，毫无疑问，你是一个人，而不是你，安迪，但一个人在照镜子时处于一种较少的内感受模式。

So exteroception, perception of things beyond the confines of our skin, even if it's a picture of us.

因此，外感，即对超出我们皮肤范围的事物的感知，即使它是我们的照片。

Interoception, perception of everything from the skin inward.

内感受，从皮肤向内感知一切。

And so if we're looking at ourselves, we're diverting some allocation of our attention.

因此，如果我们审视自己，我们就会转移一些注意力。

Let's say there's 100, these are arbitrary units, and you can put 50% of your attention on the feeling in your body or the muscles you're training, and 50% on how it appears in the mirror.

假设有 100 个，这些是任意单位，您可以将 50% 的注意力放在身体的感觉或正在训练的肌肉上，将 50% 的注意力放在镜子中的外观上。

Or it could be 100% on the mirror or 100% internally, which you best accomplish probably by closing your eyes.

或者它可以 100% 在镜子上或 100% 在内部，您最好通过闭上眼睛来实现。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So obviously there are constraints here, certain movements you wouldn't want to close your eyes, et cetera.

显然这里存在一些限制，某些你不想闭上眼睛的动作等等。

In general What are your thoughts on mirrors or no mirrors for resistance training specifically?

总体而言，您对阻力训练中使用镜子或不使用镜子有何看法？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

It depends on the metric that you find most important.

这取决于您认为最重要的指标。

And what I mean by this is if you're training for, say, muscle hypertrophy, there's emerging evidence that suggests actually looking at yourself in the mirror and even flexing in between sets can actually be advantageous, or it can augment muscle gains.

我的意思是，如果你正在训练，比如说，肌肉肥大，有新的证据表明，在镜子中观察自己，甚至在组间弯曲实际上是有利的，或者它可以增加肌肉的增长。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Oh my, there's support for all the mirror flexors.

天哪，所有镜子屈肌都有支撑。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Absolutely.

绝对的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Not making fun of you.

不是取笑你。

It is sort of interesting to be on the observing side of that.

站在观察者的角度是很有趣的。

But hey, listen, results are what people are after.

但是，嘿，听着，结果才是人们所追求的。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Having said that, if you're trying to enhance movement learning, then it may be detrimental.

话虽如此，如果你想加强运动学习，那么这可能是有害的。

So if you're doing an exercise that is explosive and fast, it's probably not the best thing to be looking into a mirror.

因此，如果您正在进行爆发性且快速的锻炼，那么照镜子可能不是最好的选择。

If you were to walk into any Olympic weightlifting arena, and you had any thoughts of using a mirror, you would probably run out of the gym very quickly.

如果你走进任何一个奥运会举重赛场，并且有任何使用镜子的想法，你可能会很快跑出健身房。

You can't see yourself in time to make an adjustment with a movement that's happening that fast.

你无法及时看到自己对如此快速发生的运动做出调整。

And also will do exactly what you mentioned, which is it will remove your ability to understand and feel the movement.

并且也会完全按照您提到的那样进行，这将消除您理解和感受运动的能力。

And so this is a big component to using technology for exercise at all, is you have to make sure that the endpoint is you understanding you and your physiology more, not less.

因此，这是使用技术进行锻炼的一个重要组成部分，你必须确保终点是你更多地了解你和你的生理机能，而不是更少。

When you outsource learning to technology, and in this case, even if the technology is the mirror, you remove your ability to gain and truly understand that learning process.

当你将学习外包给技术时，在这种情况下，即使技术是镜子，你也会失去获得和真正理解学习过程的能力。

So you need to be very, very careful whether you're using a mirror or whether you're using any number of apps where you can record, say, a movement and then watch it afterwards, and it will give you a breakdown if your hand was in the right spot or foot was in the right spot.

所以你需要非常非常小心，无论你是在使用镜子，还是在使用任何数量的应用程序，你可以记录一个动作，然后观察它，如果你的手在正确的位置或脚在正确的位置，它会给你一个详细信息。

These are all great.

这些都很棒。

But you need to then take the next step, which is to say, "I need to be able to feel that position." All right, so in the case of performance, if you can imagine trying to learn a new technique, say, running technique, and you have to be able to watch yourself in the mirror to understand your stride in the right position.

但你需要采取下一步，也就是说，“我需要能够感受到那个位置。”好吧，就表现而言，如果您可以想象尝试学习一项新技术，例如跑步技术，并且您必须能够在镜子中观察自己，以了解自己的步幅是否处于正确的位置。

If you don't take the next step of saying, "Okay, now I don't have to look in the mirror, and I can feel when I'm getting out of rhythm" or whatever the case is, then you'll never be able to actually then use that in your race.

如果你不采取下一步措施说：“好吧，现在我不必照镜子了，我可以感觉到自己何时失去节奏”或无论什么情况，那么你将永远无法在比赛中真正使用它。

And so it's very, very important that people, again, pay attention to what is the dependent variable that you're actually interested in doing.

因此，人们再次关注您真正感兴趣的因变量是什么，这一点非常非常重要。

And if you're trying to get better at something, the tech is okay as a starting place.

如果你想在某件事上做得更好，那么技术可以作为起点。

It just cannot be the finishing place.

它只是不可能是终点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Thank you for those reflections.

谢谢你的反思。

I'm curious as to what happens or what one should do if their HRV is reduced for maybe three or four or more days in a row.

我很好奇如果 HRV 连续三四天或更长时间降低，会发生什么或者应该做什么。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Absolutely.

绝对的。

The next question that I'm going to ask is, again, am I in that adaptation phase?

我要问的下一个问题是，我是否处于适应阶段？

If so, I'm going to still ignore it, just like I did if it was a single bad day, but I'm going to start watching it very carefully.

如果是这样，我仍然会忽略它，就像如果这是一个糟糕的一天我所做的那样，但我会开始非常仔细地观察它。

I may actually now introduce some other tests.

我现在实际上可以介绍一些其他测试。

So I may use a performance test.

所以我可能会使用性能测试。

We may look at something else, maybe ask questions, maybe have some communication, either with myself or somebody else.

我们可能会看别的东西，可能会问问题，可能会与自己或其他人进行一些交流。

So I'm going to start paying more attention, but I'm still really not going to take much action until that crosses more than seven days of consistent problems.

因此，我将开始更加关注，但在解决超过 7 天的持续问题之前，我仍然不会采取太多行动。

If it does do that or we're in a peaking phase, then I'm going to go to another set of solutions that are truly going to pull me out of the hole rather than just be those acute state shifters.

如果它确实做到了这一点，或者我们正处于顶峰阶段，那么我将采用另一套解决方案，这些解决方案真正能将我从困境中拉出来，而不仅仅是那些敏锐的状态转变者。

These are more what I call chronic state shifters.

我将这些更多地称为慢性状态转变者。

Now, some of these are actually very similar to the ones we've used before.

现在，其中一些实际上与我们之前使用过的非常相似。

For example, thermal stress.

例如，热应力。

So I can promise you, if your recovery score is in the tanks and you walk outside and you jump in your 35-degree water and you get back out, what's going to happen is your HRV score immediately afterwards, I'm talking within seconds, is going to be significantly compromised, right?

所以我可以向你保证，如果你的恢复分数在水箱里，你走到外面，跳进 35 度的水中，然后再出来，那么你的 HRV 分数会立即发生什么，我是说在几秒钟之内，将会受到严重影响，对吗？

In other words, think about that.

换句话说，想一想。

Remember, a low HRV means a high sympathetic.

请记住，低 HRV 意味着高交感神经。

I promise you, cold water will put you in a high sympathetic drive.

我向你保证，冷水会让你产生高度的同情心。

However, and we've tested this pretty extensively, looking at HRV zero, 15, 30, 60, 90, all the way up to 180 minutes post.

然而，我们对此进行了相当广泛的测试，查看了 HRV 0、15、30、60、90，一直到 180 分钟后的情况。

And on average, you'll see your HRV score continue to rise after that.

平均而言，此后您会发现您的 HRV 分数继续上升。

And so while you have this immediate sympathetic response, you will immediately then respond at about 30 minutes on most people, depends on the person, though, and that score will be improved for several hours afterwards.

因此，虽然你有这种立即的同情反应，但对大多数人来说，你会在大约 30 分钟后立即做出反应，但取决于个人，而且分数会在几个小时后得到提高。

So heat can kind of have a similar effect.

所以热量也能产生类似的效果。

That actually, again, is sort of an acute fix, but over time, as we've described earlier, that can also have a little bit of a chronic effect.

这实际上又是一种急性修复，但随着时间的推移，正如我们之前所描述的，这也会产生一些慢性影响。

We can also then get into areas like sleep.

然后我们还可以进入睡眠等领域。

And so now we're going to start playing and exploring why are you sleeping poor as well, or was your sleep score fine, but your HRV was low?

现在我们要开始玩游戏并探索为什么你的睡眠质量也很差，或者你的睡眠得分很好，但你的 HRV 却很低？

That's a little bit of a different answer.

这是一个有点不同的答案。

If your sleep is getting compromised, then we're going to start going into and making sure we're improving our sleep.

如果您的睡眠受到影响，那么我们将开始研究并确保改善我们的睡眠。

In terms of brain stuff, instead of maybe playing a game or having music or some of those other tricks, those aren't going to really have a chronic effect.

就大脑而言，这些可能不会真正产生长期影响，而不是玩游戏或听音乐或其他一些技巧。

But you can do things like work on social connection.

但你可以做一些事情，比如建立社交关系。

That's actually been shown to improve recovery over time.

事实上，随着时间的推移，这已被证明可以改善恢复。

You can do things like journaling or meditation, and those have an acute effect as well as a chronic effect.

你可以做一些事情，比如写日记或冥想，这些活动既有急性效果，也有慢性效果。

So again, if you go journal right now, you'll probably feel better, but also we know that over time, that will gradually improve things.

再说一次，如果你现在写日记，你可能会感觉好一些，但我们也知道，随着时间的推移，情况会逐渐改善。

So adaptogens and things like that also can have a chronic effect.

所以适应原和类似的东西也会产生慢性影响。

So can things like electrolytes or food or hydration if those things were off.

如果电解质、食物或水合作用等东西被关闭，这些东西也会如此。

So we're going to go to a whole number of areas, but those are the primary ones.

因此，我们将前往很多领域，但这些是主要领域。

Outstanding of all that, of course, it may be simply a time to go back and reassess our training program if that's truly the case.

当然，最重要的是，如果情况确实如此，这可能只是一个回去重新评估我们的培训计划的时候。

So that's where we're at.

这就是我们现在的情况。

If so, we're probably going to either completely remove training Or drop it to 50% or so until we start rebounding back to baseline.

如果是这样，我们可能会完全取消训练，或者将其降低到 50% 左右，直到我们开始反弹回到基线。

And that's generally the numbers we use.

这通常是我们使用的数字。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

For many people who are not training for a competitive sport and maybe aren't pushing themselves really hard, maybe they consider themselves somebody who exercises in order to maintain health and aesthetics and longevity, et cetera, and they never really finish any workout completely exhausted.

对于许多没有为竞技运动进行训练的人来说，也许他们并没有真正努力地逼自己，也许他们认为自己是为了保持健康、美观和长寿等而锻炼的人，而且他们从来没有真正完成任何锻炼时完全精疲力尽。

They're sleeping okay.

他们睡得很好。

Their appetite's okay.

他们的胃口还好。

Can we assume that they are recovering well?

我们可以假设他们恢复得很好吗？

Or maybe they're not creating enough of an adaptation response, like there's no progressive overreaching, and so there's really no stimulus for recovery.

或者也许他们没有产生足够的适应反应，就像没有渐进的过度行为一样，因此实际上没有恢复的刺激。

What I'm saying here is on the face of it, I think is obvious, right?

我在这里所说的从表面上看，我认为是显而易见的，对吗？

If you don't train hard, there's nothing to recover from.

如果你不努力训练，就没有什么可以恢复的。

What I'm really saying is, is the ability to recover itself something that we need to train?

我真正想说的是，自我恢复的能力是我们需要训练的吗？

In other words, can we get better at recovering?

换句话说，我们能更好地恢复吗？

And the analogy here would be something like focus.

这里的类比就像焦点一样。

In order to perform work of any kind, but certainly mental work and physical work, we need to be able to focus.

为了完成任何类型的工作，尤其是脑力工作和体力工作，我们需要能够集中注意力。

The ability to focus is the reflection of a bunch of neural circuits and chemicals and hormones, et cetera.

集中注意力的能力是一堆神经回路、化学物质和激素等的反映。

But we know roughly what those are, and we know that if you are poor at focusing, for every small bit of time that you can focus a little bit longer, even if it's a matter of seconds, those circuits themselves get better at focusing, and so on and so forth.

但我们大致知道这些是什么，并且我们知道，如果你不擅长聚焦，那么每花一点点时间，你就可以聚焦更长一点，即使只是几秒钟，这些电路本身也会变得更擅长聚焦，依此类推。

So, in other words, is the recovery system however broad, neurotransmitters, hormones, neural, muscular, immune-based, et cetera, can that system or set of systems become better?

那么，换句话说，无论神经递质、激素、神经、肌肉、免疫等恢复系统有多广泛，该系统或一组系统能否变得更好？

Can we get better at recovering?

我们能更好地恢复吗？

Meaning can it become faster and more effective?

这意味着它可以变得更快、更有效吗？

Can we think of the recovery system as kind of a blade that gets sharper by engaging recovery?

我们是否可以将恢复系统视为一种通过恢复而变得更加锋利的刀片？

Because if so, then there's strong reason for people who are not pushing really hard to push at least a little bit harder than is comfortable for them every once in a while to make sure that that system doesn't start to slide back.

因为如果是这样，那么那些没有真正努力推动的人就有充分的理由每隔一段时间就至少比他们感到舒服的努力一点点，以确保该系统不会开始倒退。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Remember, physiology is listening to everything you do, and it is always responding.

请记住，生理学正在倾听您所做的一切，并且总是做出反应。

So the analogy that I will meet your analogy with that I use here is the bowling alley.

因此，我在这里使用的类比就是保龄球馆。

So you've probably been bowling before, and you've used the bumper lanes, right?

那么您以前可能打过保龄球，并且使用过保龄球道，对吧？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The bumper lanes.

保险杠车道。

I've gone bowling before, and I've spent time in the gutter, and I've spent time on the pins.

我以前打过保龄球，也曾在阴沟里度过过，也曾在球瓶上度过过。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Okay.

好的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's been a while.

已经有一段时间了。

We used to have a bowling alley in the town where I went to, and it was fun.

我们以前去的镇上有一个保龄球馆，很有趣。

We used to slide around on our shoes and all the kids would hang out there, and I feel like-- Do they still have bowling alleys?

我们过去常常穿着鞋子滑来滑去，所有的孩子都会在那里闲逛，我觉得——他们还有保龄球馆吗？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I don't even know.

我什至不知道。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It feels like something that may have gone the way of the mid-2000s.

感觉就像是2000年代中期的事情。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I don't care if no one bowls anymore.

我不在乎是否没人打球了。

You're not going to ruin my good analogy.

你不会破坏我的好比喻。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay.

好的。

Well, my intent wasn't to ruin your analogy.

好吧，我的目的并不是要破坏你的类比。

Okay.

好的。

Tell us about bowling.

给我们讲讲保龄球吧。

All the bowlers are going to come after me with bowling balls or something.

所有的保龄球手都会拿着保龄球什么的来追我。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Right.

对。

You're going to get blasted with all the stats on elevations and frame.

您将会被有关海拔和框架的所有统计数据所震惊。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Don't hurt me.

别伤害我。

Sorry.

对不起。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Cool.

酷。

So if one were to go bowling and they didn't want to put their ball in the gutter-

所以如果一个人去打保龄球并且他们不想把球扔进排水沟-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yep

是的

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

...

you could put these little bumpers in those lanes.

你可以把这些小保险杠放在那些车道上。

All right?

好的？

And these little foam pads that go in the gutter that if your ball is going towards the gutter, it hits those and bounces off and goes back in the lane.

这些小泡沫垫放在排水沟中，如果你的球飞向排水沟，它会撞到这些泡沫垫并弹开并返回球道。

Right?

正确的？

Okay, so in this entire conversation, and this is actually true of a lot of the way people approach their fitness and health.

好的，在整个对话中，这实际上适用于人们对待健身和健康的很多方式。

People are very concerned oftentimes with optimizing, meaning I want to make sure I don't go in the gutter.

人们常常非常关心优化，这意味着我想确保我不会陷入困境。

I don't want to hit the walls.

我不想撞墙。

So therefore, I'm going to try to improve the accuracy in which I throw the ball.

因此，我会努力提高投球的准确性。

So I want to make sure that I'm throwing it down the center of the lane more often, and I want to get my standard deviation tighter and tighter so that I don't get anywhere close to hitting the wall.

所以我想确保我更频繁地将球扔到球道中心，并且我想让我的标准差越来越紧，这样我就不会接近撞墙。

However, what they're not realizing is if you do that, the body will start shrinking the size of the lane.

然而，他们没有意识到，如果你这样做，身体就会开始缩小车道的大小。

Because what it basically says is, "Huh, we haven't had a ball touch us in years.

因为它基本上说的是，“哈，我们已经很多年没有球碰过我们了。

We don't need to be this wide.

我们不需要这么宽。

Let's get smaller and smaller and smaller." So it's not that you actually are having a reduced ability to recover, but you start becoming incredibly sensitive to that.

让我们变得越来越小，越来越小。”所以，并不是说你的恢复能力实际上下降了，而是你开始对此变得异常敏感。

So your two strategies for enhancing recovery are to practice getting closer, of throwing that ball down the middle of the lane, or to widen the alley, and that's exactly what you're referring to, and you absolutely should do that.

因此，你提高恢复能力的两个策略是练习靠近球道，将球扔到球道中间，或者加宽球道，这正是你所指的，你绝对应该这样做。

And so what happens is you don't have to be so precise with what you're doing because your ability to handle so many things is widened.

因此，你不必对自己正在做的事情如此精确，因为你处理很多事情的能力得到了扩展。

So if you're off now by four or five inches to the right, no problem because you've just tripled the size of your alley.

因此，如果您现在向右偏离四到五英寸，没问题，因为您刚刚将小巷的尺寸扩大了三倍。

That's exactly what you want to do.

这正是您想要做的。

So paying attention to two things.

所以要注意两件事。

Number one is getting better at accuracy, maybe staying really tight with your progressions.

第一是提高准确性，也许要严格控制进度。

Using nutrition and sleep to optimize your recovery and push your resilience is what we call this.

我们称之为利用营养和睡眠来优化您的恢复并增强您的恢复力。

In fact, there's actually a biological way to measure resilience.

事实上，实际上有一种生物学方法可以衡量弹性。

We do that in all of our folks.

我们在我们所有的人身上都这样做。

This is scientifically validated stuff.

这是经过科学验证的东西。

I didn't just make it up.

我不只是弥补。

You can actually measure resilience.

您实际上可以衡量弹性。

And there's more and more coming out on this.

关于这一点的报道越来越多。

But that's exactly what that term means.

但这正是该术语的含义。

So how well can you handle and bang things off the stress level?

那么你能如何很好地处理事情并摆脱压力呢？

So when you see a reduction in, say, 10% of your HRV today, for you, that might make you feel terrible.

因此，当您看到今天的 HRV 降低 10% 时，您可能会感觉很糟糕。

For me, I might not feel anything because I'm well-adapted to large fluctuations, and therefore, I'm okay.

对我来说，我可能没有什么感觉，因为我已经适应了大的波动，所以我还好。

The less and less you do that, the more and more responsive you will be to those slight deviations.

你这样做的次数越少，你对这些轻微偏差的反应就越强烈。

So that is exactly the target, and that's kind of what I allude to when I say you got to understand what are we optimizing for?

这正是目标，当我说你必须了解我们优化的目的是什么时，我就提到了这一点？

Are we optimizing for making sure I don't feel any different today?

我们是否正在进行优化以确保我今天没有感觉有任何不同？

Are we optimizing to make sure when I do feel different, I still am able to perform?

我们是否正在优化以确保当我确实感觉不同时，我仍然能够表现？

So this is why you want to do things like Maybe use some caffeine today and feel great.

所以这就是为什么你想做一些事情，比如今天也许喝点咖啡因，感觉棒极了。

But if I have to use it every day, all I'm doing is shrinking my sensitivity there.

但如果我必须每天使用它，我所做的就是降低我的敏感度。

So now if I have to go a day without it, I can't train at all.

所以现在如果我必须有一天没有它，我就根本无法训练。

Right?

正确的？

Caffeine is the easy example because people understand how that whole system works.

咖啡因是一个简单的例子，因为人们了解整个系统的工作原理。

But this is really true of everything else.

但这确实适用于其他一切。

So yeah, you need to practice this.

所以是的，你需要练习这个。

And the way to do that is to give yourself more stress, to continue to bring in the stress from nutrition, from training, from breathwork.

而做到这一点的方法就是给自己更多的压力，继续从营养、训练、呼吸中引入压力。

You mentioned earlier about focus, the exact same thing, right?

您之前提到过焦点，完全相同，对吗？

It's not just about getting better right now.

这不仅仅是现在变得更好。

It's about training a system.

这是关于训练一个系统。

And you can clearly train that, right?

你可以清楚地训练它，对吧？

We will often say breathwork is a practice.

我们常说呼吸是一种练习。

That's exactly what we're talking about, right?

这正是我们正在讨论的，对吧？

So you're practicing getting better at these things.

所以你正在练习在这些事情上做得更好。

You're practicing returning your focus.

你正在练习重新集中注意力。

You're practicing recovering.

你正在练习恢复。

And quite literally, physiologically, you can upregulate, whether we're talking enzymes, whether we're talking about regulators, these will be upregulated so then the next time that insult comes in, it's not as damaging.

从字面上看，从生理上讲，你可以上调，无论我们是在谈论酶，还是在谈论调节剂，这些都会被上调，这样下次侮辱到来时，它就不会那么具有破坏性了。

So yeah, absolutely you can and you should strive for that.

所以，是的，你绝对可以而且你应该为此努力。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Throughout all the episodes where we've been talking about exercise, at the core of that is this word adaptations.

在我们谈论锻炼的所有剧集中，其核心就是这个词的改编。

And I love that you mentioned that breathwork can also create adaptations.

我喜欢你提到呼吸也可以创造适应。

The way I'm visualizing all of this now is that resistance training with weights, machines, body weight, otherwise, cardiovascular training, running, jogging, sprinting, jumping, and so on.

我现在想象这一切的方式是用重量、机器、体重进行阻力训练，否则还有心血管训练、跑步、慢跑、冲刺、跳跃等。

Thermal training, exposure to heat, exposure to cold in a dedicated way, and deliberate respiration, AKA breathing or breathwork as a practice.

热训练、以专门的方式暴露在热中、暴露在冷中，以及有意识的呼吸，又称呼吸或呼吸练习。

All of those can be viewed as ways to trigger adaptations.

所有这些都可以被视为触发适应的方式。

And in the context of recovery, the specific adaptations you're trying to engage are opposite to stress.

在恢复过程中，您尝试进行的具体适应与压力相反。

In fact, with the exception of perhaps deliberate cold exposure, maybe deliberate heat exposure, because if the sauna's really hot, you can get the dynorphin release, which is kind of uncomfortable.

事实上，除了可能故意暴露在寒冷中，也可能是故意暴露在高温下，因为如果桑拿真的很热，你就会释放强啡肽，这有点不舒服。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But still, in both those cases, the rebound from that, in other words, when you get out, you shower, and you go to bed, the next morning, you do have this kind of blissed-out feeling.

但是，在这两种情况下，反弹，换句话说，当你出去，洗澡，上床睡觉时，第二天早上，你确实有这种幸福的感觉。

We know why that is.

我们知道这是为什么。

That is the rebound to that uncomfortable situation.

这就是那种不舒服的情况的反弹。

So it seems it doesn't really matter whether or not you're using resistance, you're doing cardiovascular training, you're using thermal approaches, or you're using respiration-based approaches.

因此，无论您是否使用阻力、是否进行心血管训练、是否使用热疗法或是否使用基于呼吸的方法，似乎并不重要。

All of these are really ways of both triggering adaptations and, if applied properly, to actually help you recover from the stress and create the literal result that you're trying to achieve.

所有这些实际上都是触发适应的方法，如果应用得当，可以真正帮助您从压力中恢复并创造您想要实现的实际结果。

For some people, that might have been obvious, but I think for many people, including myself, this set of conversations that we've been having over the series, these episodes, it's really the first time that I've ever thought about exercise in these ways.

对于某些人来说，这可能是显而易见的，但我认为对于包括我自己在内的很多人来说，我们在剧集中进行的这组对话，这确实是我第一次以这些方式思考锻炼。

In any event, it's just a reflection, but it's one that, at least for me, is tremendously useful because it has a lot of organizational logic to it, which at least appeals to my brain, because the more that things have a logic, the more for me that they become simplified and the more that the vast array of tools becomes visible to me.

无论如何，这只是一种反思，但至少对我来说，这是非常有用的，因为它有很多组织逻辑，这至少吸引了我的大脑，因为事物越有逻辑，对我来说它们就越简单，大量的工具对我来说就越可见。

As you said earlier, what is it?

正如您之前所说，它是什么？

Let me make sure I get this right.

让我确保我做对了。

It's concepts are few, methods are many?

它的概念少，方法多？

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Pretty close.

非常接近。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay.

好的。

Remind us how you state it.

提醒我们您是如何表述的。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Methods are many, concepts are few.

方法很多，概念很少。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Ah, okay.

啊，好吧。

Got it.

知道了。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Either way.

不管怎样。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The directionality probably matters.

方向性可能很重要。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

It doesn't matter.

没关系。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

No, let's keep it right.

不，让我们保持正确。

The methods are many, concepts are few.

方法很多，概念很少。

Galpin's Law.

加尔平定律。

In science, you're not allowed to name things after yourself, but you can name things after other people.

在科学上，你不可以用自己的名字命名事物，但你可以用别人的名字命名事物。

So, it's Galpin's Law.

所以，这就是加尔平定律。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Because I'm definitely the one who created that idea.

因为我绝对是创造这个想法的人。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Right.

对。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

So absolutely.

绝对如此。

That was extreme and tremendous sarcasm to sor ultra there.

这是对那里的极端和巨大的讽刺。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Right.

对。

Regardless, here we go.

无论如何，我们开始吧。

Galpin's Law.

加尔平定律。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

There you go.

就这样吧。

One thing that's in my head right now is we've thrown out a lot of options for folks, and maybe what we can do is try to simplify a little bit.

我现在脑子里想的一件事是，我们已经为人们提供了很多选择，也许我们能做的就是尝试简化一点。

So what I can kind of walk you through is how we measure recovery, if you will, and how often, and some tools.

因此，我可以向您介绍我们如何衡量恢复情况（如果您愿意的话）、恢复频率以及一些工具。

And what I would recommend people do is not use everything I said.

我建议人们不要使用我所说的一切。

You want to pick one or two things per category that are most important to you, that are at your cost, that are at your availability, that are interesting and important and relevant to you, and do that.

你想在每个类别中选择一两件对你来说最重要的事情，这些事情是由你承担的，是你有时间的，是有趣的、重要的并且与你相关的，然后这样做。

The reason I kind of wanted to cover a large number of things was to give folks options.

我想要涵盖很多内容的原因是为了给人们提供选择。

But again, I want to emphasize the point is to not measure all of them.

但我想再次强调一点是不要衡量所有这些。

In fact, you don't need to.

事实上，你不需要。

I've ran this before with professional athletes where we've taken blood, urine every single day.

我以前和职业运动员一起做过这个实验，我们每天都采集血液和尿液。

We've done performance measures, vertical jumps on a force plate, a whole bunch of things every day for years on end.

我们连续多年每天都会进行性能测量、测力台上的垂直跳跃等一大堆事情。

And what I can tell you is there is tremendous redundancy in physiology, right?

我可以告诉你的是，生理学中存在巨大的冗余，对吧？

Everything is everything.

一切都是一切。

So you don't need to do them, and don't feel like you're missing out if you aren't doing them.

所以你不需要做它们，如果你不做它们，也不会觉得自己错过了。

One or two metrics is probably fine.

一两个指标可能就可以了。

I generally recommend one subjective measure.

我通常推荐一种主观措施。

This could be as simple as what's your mood?

这可以很简单，比如你的心情如何？

How do you feel today?

你今天感觉怎么样？

Great.

伟大的。

And one objective measure, HRV, resting heart rate, anything else, right?

还有一项客观指标，HRV、静息心率，还有其他什么，对吗？

So if you even literally just did that, you'd probably have pretty good insight as to what you're doing.

因此，如果您真的这样做了，您可能会对自己正在做的事情有很好的了解。

So maybe, in fact, I'll go more detail here.

事实上，也许我会在这里详细介绍。

Maybe I'll give you a couple of examples of things to measure every day, some things that you should measure maybe quarterly, monthly, and then maybe even some annually.

也许我会给你举几个每天要测量的例子，有些东西你应该每季度、每月、甚至每年测量一次。

And then you can maybe just pick a couple from each of these categories and have yourself a pretty good monitoring system for what to do.

然后你也许可以从每个类别中选择几个，并为自己建立一个非常好的监控系统来做什么。

And I'll include some that are a little bit of technology-based and then others that are totally cost-free and require nothing.

我将包括一些基于技术的内容，然后是完全免费且不需要任何内容的其他内容。

Okay.

好的。

To start off, I would recommend taking something like HRV every day or most days.

首先，我建议每天或大部分时间服用心率变异性 (HRV) 等药物。

If you don't have a device like that, you could also use, honestly, the CO2 tolerance test, and we've talked about that a number of times, and we probably have plenty of research to go find that.

如果您没有这样的设备，老实说，您也可以使用二氧化碳耐受性测试，我们已经多次讨论过这一点，并且我们可能有大量的研究来找到这一点。

But that doesn't require anything.

但这不需要任何东西。

It typically takes about a minute or so, and you can do that under the same circumstances in which HRV.

通常需要大约一分钟左右，您可以在 HRV 相同的情况下完成此操作。

In other words, do it the same time every day, have the same standardization stuff.

换句话说，每天在同一时间做，有相同的标准化内容。

And that is actually been in our coaching experience, while admittedly, there is no peer-reviewed research on this yet.

这实际上已经存在于我们的教练经验中，但不可否认的是，目前还没有对此进行同行评审的研究。

Just in our experience, this tends to track extremely closely with HRV and other metrics of recovery.

根据我们的经验，这往往与 HRV 和其他恢复指标密切相关。

In fact, we actually did do a pilot trial in my lab, and it tracked decently well with both state and trait anxiety.

事实上，我们确实在我的实验室进行了一项试点试验，它在状态焦虑和特质焦虑方面都表现得很好。

So, it's a nice metric.

所以，这是一个很好的指标。

Not perfect, but you could take that.

并不完美，但你可以接受。

So if you wanted, you could do both.

所以如果你愿意的话，你可以两者都做。

But again, remember, you're trying to capture systemic stress, and so you're really just showing you're measuring one thing two ways.

但再次请记住，您正在尝试捕捉系统压力，因此您实际上只是表明您正在用两种方式衡量一件事。

So you don't necessarily have to have them both.

所以你不一定必须同时拥有它们。

I will do both just because I'm super interested in small differences, but globally, they're going to tell you basically the same thing.

我会同时做这两件事，因为我对微小的差异非常感兴趣，但从全球范围来看，他们会告诉你基本相同的事情。

So those are two things we'll use, again, basically daily, year-round or close to it.

因此，我们将再次使用这两种东西，基本上每天、全年或接近使用。

If you want to go past that a little bit, you can use a pretty old, commonly used survey called a DALDA, D-A-L-D-A.

如果您想稍微超越这一点，您可以使用一种非常古老且常用的调查，称为 DALDA，D-A-L-D-A。

I forget the exact acronym, but it is a fairly lengthy questionnaire, and it accounts for things like how do you feel today, how did you sleep, any stressors going on in your life, how you've been eating.

我忘记了确切的缩写，但这是一份相当冗长的调查问卷，它解释了诸如您今天感觉如何、您睡得如何、您生活中发生的任何压力源、您的饮食情况等问题。

And it's this fairly comprehensive, lengthy survey that came out, it's probably been around for 30 years or something.

这是一项相当全面、冗长的调查，它可能已经存在了 30 年左右。

It's nothing new and been used extensively.

它不是什么新鲜事，并且已被广泛使用。

You would not want to do that every day.

你不会想每天都这样做。

If you wanted to take some subjective measures every day, we typically stick with, like I've said, mood, motivation, something like that.

如果你想每天采取一些主观措施，我们通常会坚持，就像我所说的，情绪、动机等。

You could perform this DALDA test, so something more like monthly or at the end of each training phase, every couple of months, and probably worth looking at.

您可以执行此 DALDA 测试，因此更像是每月一次或在每个训练阶段结束时、每几个月进行一次，可能值得一看。

It's not going to tell you if you're in a bad spot today or tomorrow, but you would pick that up with the HRV or CO2 tolerance test.

它不会告诉您今天或明天是否处于不良状态，但您可以通过 HRV 或二氧化碳耐受性测试来了解这一点。

It would, though, tell you information, especially if you're working with another individual, about major life changes, and if anything, it just facilitates that conversation.

不过，它会告诉您有关重大生活变化的信息，尤其是当您与另一个人一起工作时，如果有的话，它只会促进对话。

"I noticed you reported X happening.

“我注意到你报告了 X 的发生。

Let's talk about that and can I help?" et cetera.

我们来谈谈这个吧，我能帮忙吗？”等等。

So another kind of sneaky helpful one is simply body fat.

因此，另一种偷偷摸摸的有用的方法就是身体脂肪。

Like I said, non-functional overreaching and over-training are associated with a number of things like energy, appetite suppression, changes in body weight or body composition.

正如我所说，非功能性过度伸展和过度训练与许多因素有关，例如能量、食欲抑制、体重或身体成分的变化。

So you can measure that monthly or even really quarterly, depending on what kind of athlete or individual you're working at, especially if you're not trying to lose weight or if you're trying to be at maintenance.

因此，您可以每月甚至每季度进行一次测量，具体取决于您所工作的运动员或个人的类型，特别是如果您不想减肥或想保持体重的话。

And that'll give you some insights as well.

这也会给你一些见解。

So moving past that now, actually, we're going to move into the realm of things that we call hidden stressors.

所以现在超越这个，实际上，我们将进入我们称之为隐藏压力源的领域。

So those are all visible stressors.

所以这些都是可见的压力源。

So hidden stressors, the most common ones we've sort of mentioned, and I would probably do this, well, you're going to have to do these ones through serum.

所以隐藏的压力源，我们提到过的最常见的压力源，我可能会这样做，嗯，你必须通过血清来做到这些。

So this is blood work.

所以这是血液工作。

Cortisol, like we talked about, and testosterone, and then, of course, testosterone to cortisol ratio, and then the other ones I mentioned.

皮质醇，就像我们谈到的，还有睾酮，当然还有睾酮与皮质醇的比率，然后是我提到的其他比率。

You can do those quarterly.

您可以每季度进行一次。

It's not bad.

这还不错。

There are some blood markers that there's really no sense to do them that soon, and there are other markers-- In our system, our individuals are getting pretty extensive blood work, saliva work, urine, and stool.

有些血液标记物确实没有必要那么快做，还有其他标记物——在我们的系统中，我们的个人正在接受相当广泛的血液检查、唾液检查、尿液检查和粪便检查。

And so there's plenty of those things you just do not need to measure every 10 weeks or so.

因此，有很多事情您不需要每 10 周左右测量一次。

In this case, cortisol, as you know, sort of changes rapidly.

在这种情况下，如你所知，皮质醇会迅速变化。

Testosterone can change pretty quickly.

睾丸激素可以很快改变。

But if you're really trying to notice a larger trend, certainly quarterly or so is an appropriate timeframe.

但如果您确实想注意到更大的趋势，那么每季度左右肯定是合适的时间范围。

Doing it every four or five weeks is probably unnecessary, so you can save yourself some money and do that.

每四到五周做一次可能是没有必要的，所以你可以为自己节省一些钱并这样做。

Other stuff you can look at, actually, more like semiannually in plasma, like glutamine and glutamine to glutamate ratio, and you can maybe save the why you want to look at those for another conversation.

实际上，您可以在血浆中每半年查看一次其他内容，例如谷氨酰胺和谷氨酰胺与谷氨酸的比率，您也许可以保存为什么要查看这些内容以供下次对话。

But those are important.

但这些很重要。

We always look at something from the oxidative stress thing.

我们总是从氧化应激的角度来看待一些事情。

So this could be something like TNF alpha or interleukin-6, something like that.

所以这可能是 TNF α 或白细胞介素 6 之类的东西。

Again, we're looking at that in serum, and we're looking at that semiannually.

同样，我们正在观察血清中的情况，并且我们每半年进行一次观察。

And then another sneaky actually one that I love to look at is the neutrophil-to-lymphocyte ratio, which will give you some pretty good insight.

我喜欢看的另一个偷偷摸摸的实际上是中性粒细胞与淋巴细胞的比率，这将为您提供一些非常好的见解。

And again, you could look at that fairly quarterly.

同样，您可以每季度查看一次。

If that number starts to get really high, certainly more than nine to one, you got a pretty good insight that something gnarly is going on with your immune system.

如果这个数字开始变得非常高，肯定超过九比一，那么您就可以很好地了解您的免疫系统正在发生一些棘手的事情。

So, we will actually take action much lower than that number, but that's a nice cutoff you'll see, is that's a very, very high number.

所以，我们实际上会采取比这个数字低得多的行动，但这是一个很好的截止点，你会看到，这是一个非常非常高的数字。

So, those are some things you can use.

所以，这些是您可以使用的一些东西。

Most folks have the ability, hopefully, to get some basic blood work done, get a basic what's called a CBC and CMP.

希望大多数人都有能力完成一些基本的血液检查，获得基本的 CBC 和 CMP。

If you have a great physician and you can get insurance to cover that and you just go in and ask for a CBC and CMP, they'll know what that means.

如果您有一位出色的医生，并且可以购买保险来承保，并且您只需进去要求 CBC 和 CMP，他们就会知道这意味着什么。

You can Google that, and they'll order it, and you'll get all the information typically that I just described or close enough, and you'll get some insights.

你可以用谷歌搜索，他们会订购它，你会得到我刚刚描述的或足够接近的所有信息，你会得到一些见解。

And then again, you can just use that free service I mentioned earlier to check to see whether or not the changes are just a matter of testing quality or actually physiologically relevant.

话又说回来，您可以使用我之前提到的免费服务来检查这些变化是否只是测试质量问题或实际上与生理相关。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What you just described is an amazingly powerful array of tools.

您刚才描述的是一系列非常强大的工具。

I'm hoping that you can also mention a few tools that are either lower cost, truly low cost, or zero cost, that while they may not have the accuracy or give the complete picture that some of the biomarkers and other tools that you mentioned do, that they can still provide reasonably reliable metrics that people can use in order to assess their level of recovery.

我希望您还可以提到一些成本较低、真正低成本或零成本的工具，虽然它们可能不像您提到的某些生物标记物和其他工具那样具有准确性或提供完整的情况，但它们仍然可以提供相当可靠的指标，人们可以使用这些指标来评估其恢复水平。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Absolutely.

绝对的。

The CO2 tolerance test would be the first one, and you can just take that metric anytime you'd like.

二氧化碳耐受性测试将是第一个测试，您可以随时测量该指标。

The other ones we've talked about so far are things like your mood.

到目前为止我们讨论过的其他因素包括你的心情。

We haven't mentioned libido, but that's another assessment that people also tend to have a pretty good grip on, and they know what feels normal So when things go out of whack, it tends to be a pretty good signal that people will recognize.

我们还没有提到性欲，但这是人们往往也能很好地把握的另一种评估，他们知道什么感觉是正常的，所以当事情不正常时，这往往是人们会认识到的一个很好的信号。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

And one note about that.

还有一点关于这一点。

This is something that came up in an episode on hormones, both for male and female health, that at some point will air, which is that there's no objective measure for people in terms of libido across the board, meaning people vary tremendously: age, life circumstances, and on and on.

这是在关于男性和女性健康的荷尔蒙节目中出现的内容，该节目在某个时候会播出，那就是人们在性欲方面没有客观的衡量标准，这意味着人们的差异很大：年龄、生活环境等等。

And so, this is one of those subjective measures that I think people need to have some sense of what their "baseline" really is.

因此，这是我认为人们需要对他们的“基线”到底是什么有一定了解的主观衡量标准之一。

And I'm guessing that the time to assess that might best be when initiating or midway through a relatively low-intensity training phase.

我猜测评估这一点的最佳时间可能是在相对低强度的训练阶段开始或中期时。

Maybe during the time of year in which all the other factors that can influence libido are not at their maximum.

也许在一年中所有其他影响性欲的因素都没有达到最大值的时候。

So if you think about light and dopamine and the relationship between those and the testosterone/estrogen systems, we know that libido, testosterone and estrogen in men and women tends to peak in the summer months.

因此，如果你考虑一下光和多巴胺以及它们与睾酮/雌激素系统之间的关系，我们就知道男性和女性的性欲、睾酮和雌激素往往在夏季达到顶峰。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So if that's your baseline that you're comparing to, I don't know that that's as reliable as thinking something like the fall or the spring.

因此，如果这是您要比较的基线，我不知道这与思考秋天或春天之类的事情一样可靠。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And so anyway, this again is very subjective, but would just encourage people to recognize that there's no standard numbers for this, no lookup table, and there's no equivalent of the libido BMI-

所以无论如何，这又是非常主观的，但只会鼓励人们认识到这没有标准数字，没有查找表，也没有与性欲 BMI 相当的东西——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Right

右

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

the LMI.

中低收入指数。

No disrespect to the acronym that probably is LMI.

无意冒犯可能是 LMI 的缩写。

So I think that it's just something to keep in mind as people do comparisons or subjective comparisons, is don't pick a comparison to an extreme.

所以我认为，当人们进行比较或主观比较时要记住这一点，不要选择极端的比较。

Try and pick a comparison to an average as you know it to be.

尝试选择与您所知的平均值进行比较。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

That actually is sort of reminding me, one issue that we have seen a lot lately is people, if they're having libido issues or just even slightly noticing a drop, they just assume that then therefore means their testosterone is crashing.

这实际上有点提醒我，我们最近经常看到的一个问题是人们，如果他们有性欲问题，或者只是稍微注意到性欲下降，他们就会认为这意味着他们的睾丸激素正在崩溃。

And those things are certainly connected, but that is not necessarily the case.

这些事情肯定是有联系的，但事实并非必然如此。

And where that becomes a problem is then people then go on things like TRT, et cetera, with no true oversight, and then all kinds of other problems.

这成为一个问题，然后人们就会在没有真正监督的情况下进行 TRT 等事情，然后出现各种其他问题。

So, make sure that if you're going to take that step, that you actually get testosterone measured and you're working with a qualified person to guide you through that process.

因此，如果您要采取这一步，请确保您确实测量了睾丸激素，并且您正在与合格的人员合作来指导您完成该过程。

Don't just assume because you're having low energy or your libido is a little bit down.

不要仅仅因为你精力不足或性欲低下而假设。

It could be simply training related, it could be sleep related, it could be any number of things.

它可能只是与训练有关，也可能与睡眠有关，也可能是任何事情。

So that's a little bit of a word of caution there.

所以这是一个需要注意的地方。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Two quick points along the lines of what you just said.

与您刚才所说的一样，有两个要点。

One interesting thing that I learned when researching our episode on testosterone and estrogen optimization, this was an episode that we'd done some time ago, but is still available on our hubermanlab.com, all formats, et cetera, is that many people actually increase their libido and even their levels of testosterone and estrogen as they progress from their 20s into their 40s if they take excellent care of themselves, including the correct exercise adaptations, correct body fat to lean muscle ratios.

在研究我们关于睾酮和雌激素优化的一集时，我了解到一件有趣的事情，这是我们不久前完成的一集，但仍然可以在我们的 hubermanlab.com 上找到，所有格式等等，就是许多人实际上会增加他们的性欲，甚至他们的睾酮和雌激素水平，因为他们从 20 多岁进入 40 多岁，如果他们很好地照顾自己，包括正确的运动适应，正确的体脂与瘦肌肉比例。

But of course, it can go the other way, too.

但当然，也可以采取其他方式。

A lot of people can be training to achieve such low body fat stores that libido can suffer.

很多人都可以通过训练来达到低体脂肪储存，从而导致性欲受到影响。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So the age-related declines in libido are not necessarily written into the script of life.

因此，与年龄相关的性欲下降并不一定被写入生活剧本。

In fact, there are some data points from a really interesting paper I talk about in that episode of individuals, this was a study focused on males in their 80s and 90s, who maintained total and free testosterone as high as individuals in their 20s.

事实上，我在那一集中谈到的一篇非常有趣的论文中有一些数据点，这是一项针对 80 多岁和 90 多岁男性的研究，他们的总睾酮和游离睾酮水平与 20 多岁的人一样高。

But then when you look at the lifestyle factors of those-

但当你看看那些人的生活方式因素时——

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah

是啊

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

people in their 80s and 90s, they were doing a lot to create that scenario.

80 多岁和 90 多岁的人，他们为创造这样的场景做了很多努力。

The second point is one related to what you just said, which is very true, which is people generally tend to assume that a drop in libido is related to a drop in testosterone, and then assume that they need to increase their testosterone.

第二点和你刚才说的有关，这是非常正确的，就是人们普遍倾向于认为性欲下降与睾酮下降有关，然后认为他们需要增加睾酮。

And in some cases, that is true.

在某些情况下，确实如此。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Absolutely.

绝对的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But it's also often the case that people who take estrogen or aromatase blockers, that is enzyme inhibitors that prevent the conversion of testosterone to estrogen, experience severe deficits in libido because of estrogen being too low.

但服用雌激素或芳香酶阻滞剂（即阻止睾酮转化为雌激素的酶抑制剂）的人也经常会因为雌激素过低而出现严重的性欲缺陷。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So estrogen blockers are as much an issue here as low testosterone.

因此，雌激素阻滞剂与睾酮水平低同样是一个问题。

Then the final point is also one that many people now, men and women, I think need to be aware of, which is that dihydrotestosterone, DHT, is among the more powerful androgens for power output, physical power output, but also for libido.

最后一点也是现在很多人，无论男性还是女性，都需要注意的一点，那就是二氢睾酮，DHT，是一种更强大的雄激素，可以产生动力、体力输出，而且还可以促进性欲。

And DHT is strongly inhibited by certain things like turmeric.

DHT 会受到姜黄等某些物质的强烈抑制。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So a lot of people who are taking high doses of turmeric can experience drops in libido.

因此，许多服用高剂量姜黄的人会出现性欲下降的情况。

And who are taking various compounds to prevent hair loss.

以及正在服用各种化合物来防止脱发的人。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Things like finasteride.

像非那雄胺之类的东西。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Totally.

完全可以。

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So there's a whole catalog of things that can reduce libido that are not directly in the testosterone pathway.

因此，有一整套可以降低性欲的物质，但它们并不直接位于睾酮途径中。

They can be DHT related or estrogen related.

它们可能与 DHT 相关或雌激素相关。

And this, I think, points to the importance of, yes, take a subjective measure of your libido.

我认为，这表明了对性欲进行主观衡量的重要性。

Pay attention, essentially, be aware.

注意，本质上是注意。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Don't obsess, but be aware and try and figure out what factors are involved for you.

不要着迷，但要注意并尝试找出与您相关的因素。

But don't immediately assume that what's needed is more testosterone, and oftentimes, the opposite is the case.

但不要立即认为我们需要的是更多的睾丸激素，通常情况恰恰相反。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Try to put on a lot of muscle with no estrogen.

尝试在没有雌激素的情况下增加大量肌肉。

Good luck.

祝你好运。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Right.

对。

And indeed, a lot of athletes in particular, competitive bodybuilders that have that Saran Wrap thin skin.

事实上，很多运动员，尤其是竞技健美运动员，都拥有薄薄的保鲜膜。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

If you get to know some of those people and you talk to them, they can look like the sort of comic book archetype of what someone might want to be.

如果你认识其中一些人并与他们交谈，他们可能看起来就像某人可能想成为的漫画原型。

That's not what this discussion or these episodes have been about, but oftentimes they can have serious libido issues.

这不是本次讨论或这些剧集的主题，但他们通常可能有严重的性欲问题。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I mentioned earlier, and I will emphasize it once more, you need to be very cautious when you're taking antioxidants Anti-inflammatories, cortisol reducers, for all those reasons, right?

我之前提到过，我会再次强调，出于所有这些原因，您在服用抗氧化剂、抗炎药、皮质醇减少剂时需要非常谨慎，对吧？

I didn't really sort of get any examples, but you just nailed another fantastic reason of it.

我并没有真正得到任何例子，但你刚刚指出了另一个奇妙的原因。

We do not give those things prophylactically.

我们不会预防性地给予这些东西。

I strongly discourage people from just walking around taking supplementation of antioxidants, especially powerful ones, for no reason.

我强烈建议人们不要无缘无故地补充抗氧化剂，尤其是强效抗氧化剂。

If you have done some testing, and you have a good reason to do so, I'm fine.

如果你已经做了一些测试，并且你有充分的理由这样做，我没问题。

Or if you're in a very specific, say, training phase or something like that, cool.

或者，如果您处于非常具体的训练阶段或类似阶段，那就太好了。

But if you're just walking around doing that, you are oftentimes, not always, but you're oftentimes causing problems that you then try to solve by taking more of those anti-inflammatories.

但如果你只是四处走动这样做，你经常，但并非总是如此，但你经常会引起问题，然后你试图通过服用更多的抗炎药来解决。

I feel terrible, low energy, low libido, blah, blah, blah.

我感觉很糟糕，精力不足，性欲低下，等等，等等。

I'm too inflamed, et cetera.

我太发炎了等等。

So yeah, antioxidants in the form of food are fantastic.

所以，是的，食物形式的抗氧化剂非常棒。

Almost no issue.

几乎没有问题。

There is good evidence actually there, so don't worry about, "Man, I shouldn't eat high antioxidant-rich foods." You're going to be fine.

实际上有充分的证据，所以不用担心，“伙计，我不应该吃富含抗氧化剂的食物。”你会没事的。

What we're talking about here is pharmaceuticals and supplementation, where you can take orders of magnitude higher dosages very quickly than you could in the presence of food.

我们在这里讨论的是药物和补充剂，您可以比在食物存在下更快地服用高几个数量级的剂量。

So that distinction is also very important.

所以这种区别也非常重要。

Antioxidant-rich foods are generally fine, unless consumed in totally absurd concentrations.

富含抗氧化剂的食物通常没问题，除非食用浓度完全荒谬。

Supplementations, powders, creams, drugs, et cetera, is where you can get into problems.

补充剂、粉剂、面霜、药物等等，都是你可能遇到问题的地方。

So yeah, you want to be very careful of doing that unless you have a reason.

所以，是的，除非有理由，否则你要非常小心地这样做。

We don't do that unless we see a reason to do so in someone's markers.

除非我们在某人的标记中看到这样做的理由，否则我们不会这样做。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

And herbal compounds, despite the fact that they're herbal, can be quite potent modulators of hormones.

尽管草药化合物是草药，但它们可以是非常有效的激素调节剂。

Ashwagandha being an example.

Ashwagandha 就是一个例子。

Two herbal compounds that we've talked a lot about on our podcast before and repeatedly, including in that testosterone and estrogen optimization episode, tongkat ali and Fadogia agrestis.

我们之前在播客上多次谈论过两种草药化合物，包括在睾酮和雌激素优化节目中，东革阿里和 Fadogia agrestis。

Tongkat ali is now taken by a large number of men and women.

东革阿里现在被大量男性和女性服用。

Tongkat ali and Fadogia, typically men.

东革阿里和法多贾，通常是男性。

I'm not sure that there are any good studies about the effects of Fadogia in women.

我不确定是否有任何关于 Fadogia 对女性影响的好的研究。

Those are herbal compounds that can have potent effects in increasing testosterone and luteinizing hormone.

这些是草药化合物，可以有效增加睾酮和黄体生成素。

Do they work?

它们有效吗？

Yeah, they work to varying degrees in most everybody, certainly not in everybody.

是的，它们对大多数人都有不同程度的作用，当然不是每个人。

But they do work.

但它们确实有效。

But they work because they're potent, they have effects.

但它们之所以有效，是因为它们很有效，有效果。

So the idea that herbal compounds are not powerful is wrong.

因此，草药化合物没有功效的想法是错误的。

And it's important to remember that that can cut both ways.

重要的是要记住，这可能是双向的。

Hence my mention of this observation related to turmeric.

因此我提到了与姜黄有关的这一观察结果。

Which is not to say that some people can't take turmeric and feel perfectly fine, maintain or even increase their libido.

这并不是说有些人不能服用姜黄并感觉良好、维持甚至增加性欲。

Sure, that can happen.

当然，这可能会发生。

It's just that for people that are very DHT sensitive, this tends to be an issue.

只是对于 DHT 非常敏感的人来说，这往往是一个问题。

So unfortunately for many of these compounds, the only way to find out is really to try them or to just completely avoid them and decide you don't want to try them is fine too, but there really aren't ways to predict who will respond, who won't, and who will be hyper-responders.

不幸的是，对于许多这些化合物来说，找出答案的唯一方法就是真正尝试它们，或者完全避免它们并决定不想尝试它们也可以，但确实没有办法预测谁会做出反应，谁不会，以及谁会是超级反应者。

And in that case, it's a little bit of a Wild West.

在这种情况下，这就有点像狂野西部了。

Dr. Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平博士：

I'm also sort of remembering what the point of this conversation was supposed to be, and maybe I'll return back to that, which were some cost-free or low-cost metrics.

我还记得这次谈话的重点是什么，也许我会回到那个话题，这是一些免费或低成本的指标。

That was a very fun tangent.

这是一个非常有趣的切线。

But nonetheless, another couple of ones you can do are grip strength testing.

但尽管如此，您还可以做的另外一些事情是握力测试。

So if you can buy a fairly cheap hand grip dynamometer on any number of places, these are typically able to be purchased for $20 to $40 or something like that range.

因此，如果您可以在任意数量的地方购买相当便宜的手持式测功机，通常可以以 20 至 40 美元或类似的价格购买。

You can actually just test that every day.

实际上你可以每天测试一下。

I've done that in a number of athletes for a decent amount of time.

我已经在相当长的一段时间内对许多运动员进行了这种训练。

Admittedly, I don't do it anymore.

诚然，我不再这样做了。

And that's not because I disagree with it, but because we just were getting the information already, and it was just too redundant.

这并不是因为我不同意它，而是因为我们刚刚获得信息，而且它太多余了。

But if that's the only option, it is a great one to do.

但如果这是唯一的选择，那么这是一个很好的选择。

I mentioned also earlier how I actually like speed tests over strength tests as an earlier indication of overreaching.

我之前也提到过，与力量测试相比，我实际上更喜欢速度测试，因为它是越过极限的早期迹象。

And so because of that, I like a vertical jump test.

正因为如此，我喜欢垂直弹跳测试。

If you have access to a force plate, that's great, and then you can get more in-depth characteristics of the force velocity curve and acceleration and things like that.

如果您可以使用测力台，那就太好了，然后您可以获得力速度曲线和加速度等更深入的特征。

Used a lot in high-performance situations.

在高性能情况下大量使用。

If not, simply looking at your performance.

如果没有，那就看看你的表现。

And so you can kind of go back to one of our earlier episodes when I described coloring my fingertips with highlighters earlier in my life.

所以你可以回到我们之前的一集，当时我描述了我早年用荧光笔给我的指尖上色。

You could do the same thing and go out in your garage and every day jump up and touch that marker and see where you're at.

你可以做同样的事情，到你的车库里去，每天跳起来，触摸那个标记，看看你在哪里。

So a system like that could be done.

所以这样的系统是可以实现的。

You can also use tools like a force transducer and do a standard movement, again, say a vertical jump or a high pole or something like that, and measure the velocity and just compare that day-to-day of a standard load.

您还可以使用力传感器等工具并进行标准运动，例如垂直跳跃或高杆或类似的运动，然后测量速度并比较标准负载的日常情况。

Right?

正确的？

So you do it every single time with the same load.

因此，您每次都以相同的负载执行此操作。

Similar thing could be done with a medicine ball throw.

类似的事情也可以通过扔药球来完成。

So you have the same ball, you throw the same thing, and this is sort of where you're at today.

所以你有同样的球，你扔同样的东西，这就是你今天的处境。

You want to do a little bit of warm-up, but not excessive here.

你想做一点热身，但不要过度。

You want to kind of get an idea of where your baseline is, and you don't want to influence it by the veracity of the warm-up every single day, because that alone can change it.

你想要了解你的基线在哪里，并且你不想因为每天热身的准确性而影响它，因为仅此一项就可以改变它。

Same thing with stretching.

拉伸也是一样。

Acute static stretching directly influences power production.

剧烈的静态拉伸直接影响功率的产生。

So you don't want to go out there and one day do a 20-minute stretch before, and then the other day you didn't stretch at all, because that alone will cause deviations in your performance.

所以你不想出去前一天做了20分钟的伸展运动，然后另一天你根本没有伸展运动，因为仅此一点就会导致你的表现出现偏差。

So try to keep everything you can think of standardized, and that'll give you a little bit better data.

因此，请尽量保持您能想到的所有内容标准化，这将为您提供更好的数据。

Remembering all of these values, the biomarkers, the performance stuff, they have normal variations.

记住所有这些数值、生物标志物、性能资料，它们都有正常的变化。

You just want to figure out first and foremost what those normal variations are for you.

您只想首先弄清楚这些正常变化对您来说意味着什么。

So you have your normal number, you have your standard deviation.

所以你有你的正常数字，你有你的标准差。

When you start getting outside of that standard deviation, you start paying attention.

当您开始超出该标准偏差时，您就会开始注意。

And so that's kind of like what we typically call that the gray zone.

这有点像我们通常所说的灰色地带。

And so if it's in the gray zone, we're fine, we're not adjusting.

因此，如果它处于灰色地带，我们就没事，我们不会进行调整。

But if it's outside of that, whatever that is for you, recognizing that the gray zone is smaller for some folks And larger for others, but what is normal for you and your situation, and then you can make your decisions outside of that when you see numbers that are consistently or more than three to five days in a row or close, four of the last five days, four of the last six, something like that, then you maybe have some cause for action.

但如果超出了这个范围，无论对你来说是什么，认识到灰色地带对某些人来说较小，对另一些人来说较大，但对你和你的情况来说这是正常的，然后当你看到连续或超过三到五天或接近的数字时，你可以在这个范围之外做出决定，过去五天中有四天，过去六天中有四天，类似的事情，那么你可能有一些采取行动的理由。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Well, that was an incredible description of the various tools and modes for recovery.

嗯，这是对各种恢复工具和模式的令人难以置信的描述。

And I realize I jumped the gun a bit during our discussion about food and supplements, but I like to think that that serves as a nice precursor to the next episode, which is going to be all about nutrition and supplementation.

我意识到在我们讨论食物和补充剂时我有点操之过急，但我喜欢认为这是下一集的一个很好的前奏，下一集将是关于营养和补充剂的。

If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.

如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。

That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.

这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。

In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on Spotify and Apple.

此外，请订阅 Spotify 和 Apple 上的播客。

And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.

在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。

If you have questions for us or comments or suggestions about topics you'd like us to cover or guests you'd like me to include on the "Huberman Lab" podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.

如果您对我们有疑问，或者对您希望我们报道的主题或您希望我在“Huberman Lab”播客中加入的嘉宾有意见或建议，请将这些意见或建议放在 YouTube 的评论部分。

We do read all the comments.

我们确实阅读了所有评论。

Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and during today's episode.

另请查看开头和今天节目中提到的赞助商。

That's the best way to support this podcast.

这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。

I'd also like to inform you about the "Huberman Lab" podcast free newsletter.

我还想通知您有关“Huberman Lab”播客免费时事通讯的信息。

It's called the Neural Network Newsletter, and each month, the Neural Network Newsletter is sent out, and it contains summaries of podcast episodes, specific protocols discussed on the "Huberman Lab" podcast, all in fairly concise format and all completely zero cost.

它被称为“神经网络通讯”，每个月都会发出“神经网络通讯”，其中包含播客剧集的摘要、“Huberman Lab”播客上讨论的具体协议，所有这些都以相当简洁的格式进行，而且完全是零成本。

You can sign up for the Neural Network Newsletter by going to hubermanlab.com.

您可以访问 hubermanlab.com 订阅神经网络新闻通讯。

Go to the menu and click on Newsletter.

转到菜单并单击新闻通讯。

You provide us your email.

您向我们提供您的电子邮件。

We do not share it with anybody, and as I mentioned before, it's completely zero cost.

我们不与任何人分享它，正如我之前提到的，它完全是零成本。

By going to hubermanlab.com, you can also go into the Menu tab and go to Newsletter and see some example newsletters from months past.

通过访问 hubermanlab.com，您还可以进入“菜单”选项卡并转到“新闻通讯”，查看过去几个月的一些新闻通讯示例。

Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion about fitness, exercise, and performance with Dr. Andy Galpin.

再次感谢您今天与安迪·加尔平 (Andy Galpin) 博士一起参加有关健身、锻炼和表现的讨论。

And as always, thank you for your interest in science.

一如既往，感谢您对科学的兴趣。