Essentials: Using Meditation to Focus, View Consciousness & Expand Your Mind | Dr. Sam Harris
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
Welcome to Huberman Lab Essentials, where we revisit past episodes for the most potent and actionable science-based tools for mental health, physical health, and performance.
欢迎来到 Huberman Lab Essentials，在这里我们回顾过去的剧集，寻找针对心理健康、身体健康和表现的最有效、最可操作的基于科学的工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
And now for my discussion with Dr. Sam Harris.
现在我与萨姆·哈里斯博士进行讨论。
Dr. Sam Harris, what is this thing that we call a self?
萨姆·哈里斯博士，我们称之为自我的东西是什么？
As far as I know, we have not localized the region in the brain that can entirely account for our awareness of self.
据我所知，我们还没有定位出大脑中能够完全解释我们自我意识的区域。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The problem is we use the term self in so many different ways, right?
问题是我们以多种不同的方式使用“自我”这个词，对吧？
And there's one sense of that term which is the target of meditation, and you'll hear it from me, that this self is an illusion, right?
这个术语有一种含义，它是冥想的目标，你会从我那里听到，这个自我是一个幻象，对吧？
And that there's a psychological freedom that can be experienced on the other side of discovering it to be an illusion.
在发现它是幻觉的另一面可以体验到一种心理上的自由。
And some people don't like that framing.
有些人不喜欢这种框架。
Some people would insist that it's not so much an illusion, but it's a construct, and it's not what it seems.
有些人会坚持认为，这与其说是一种幻觉，不如说是一种构造，而且并不是看上去的那样。
The thing that doesn't exist, it certainly doesn't exist as it seems, and I would want to argue that it actually is just a proper illusion, is this sense that there is a subject interior to experience in addition to experience.
不存在的东西，它肯定不像看起来那样存在，我想争辩说，它实际上只是一种适当的幻觉，是除了经验之外还有一个经验内部的主体的感觉。
So most people feel like they're having an experience of the world, and they're having an experience of their bodies in the world.
所以大多数人感觉他们正在体验这个世界，并且他们正在体验他们的身体在这个世界上的体验。
And in addition to that, they feel that they are a subject internal to the body.
除此之外，他们觉得自己是身体内部的主体。
Most people feel like they're behind their face as a kind of locus of awareness and thought and intention.
大多数人觉得他们在自己的脸后面是一种意识、思想和意图的场所。
It's almost like you're a passenger inside your body.
这几乎就像你是你体内的乘客。
Most people don't feel identical to their experience.
大多数人的感觉与他们的经历并不相同。
They feel like they're on the edge of experience, somehow appropriating it from the side.
他们感觉自己正处于经验的边缘，以某种方式从侧面挪用它。
You're kind of on the edge of the world, and the world is out there.
你有点处于世界的边缘，而世界就在那里。
Your body is, in some sense, an object in the world.
从某种意义上说，你的身体是世界上的一个物体。
It's different from the world.
这与世间不同。
The boundary of your skin is still meaningful.
你皮肤的边界仍然是有意义的。
You can sort of loosely control your body.
你可以宽松地控制你的身体。
You can control your gross and subtle voluntary motor movements, but you're not controlling everything your body is doing.
你可以控制你的粗大和微妙的自愿运动，但你无法控制你身体所做的一切。
You're not controlling your heartbeat and your hormonal secretions and all of that.
你无法控制你的心跳和荷尔蒙分泌等等。
And so there's a lot that's going on that is in the dark for you.
因此，有很多事情对你来说是未知的。
Then you give someone an instruction to meditate, say, and you say, "Okay, well, let's examine all of this from the first-person side.
然后你给某人一个冥想的指示，然后你说：“好吧，让我们从第一人称的角度来审视这一切。
Let's look for this thing you're calling 'I.'" They're going to close their eyes, very likely, and now they're going to pay attention to something.
让我们寻找这个你称之为‘我’的东西。”他们很可能会闭上眼睛，现在他们会注意某件事。
They're going to pay attention to the breath or to sounds.
他们会注意呼吸或声音。
And it's from the point of view of being a locus of attention that is now aiming attention strategically at an object, like the breath, that there's this dualism that is set up.
正是从注意力焦点的角度来看，注意力现在战略性地将注意力集中在一个物体上，比如呼吸，这种二元论就被建立了。
And the ultimate promise of meditation, there are really two levels at which you could be interested in meditation.
冥想的最终承诺，实际上有两个层面可以让你对冥想感兴趣。
One is very straightforward and remedial and non-paradoxical and very well-subscribed, and it's the usual set of claims about all the benefits you're going to get from meditation.
一种是非常直接、具有治疗作用、不矛盾、非常受欢迎的说法，它是关于你将从冥想中获得的所有好处的常见主张。
So you're going to lower your stress, and you're going to increase your focus, and you're going to stave off cortical thinning, and there's all kinds of good things that science is saying meditation will give you.
所以你会减轻你的压力，你会增加你的注意力，你会避免皮质变薄，科学表明冥想会给你带来各种各样的好处。
But from my point of view, the real purpose of meditation and its real promise is not in this long list of benefits.
但从我的角度来看，冥想的真正目的及其真正的承诺并不在这一长串的好处中。
I'm not discounting any of those, though the science for many of them is quite provisional.
我不会轻视其中任何一个，尽管其中许多的科学依据都是相当临时的。
It's in this deeper claim that if you look for this thing you're calling "I", if you look for the sense that there's a thinker in addition to the mere arising of the next thought, say, you won't find that thing.
正是在这个更深层次的主张中，如果你寻找这个你称之为“我”的东西，如果你寻找除了下一个想法的纯粹出现之外还有一个思考者的感觉，比如说，你将找不到那个东西。
And you cannot find it in a way that's conclusive, and that matters.
你无法以一种决定性的方式找到它，但这很重要。
There's a host of benefits that follow from that discovery, which are quite a bit deeper and more interesting than engaging meditation on the side of its benefits, de-stressing, increasing focus, and all the rest.
这一发现带来了许多好处，这些好处比冥想的好处、减压、增强注意力等等更深入、更有趣。
Many people think meditation is about changing the contents of consciousness.
许多人认为冥想是改变意识的内容。
There's some contents you want to get rid of, like anxiety.
有些内容你想摆脱，比如焦虑。
Other contents you want to encourage, like calm and unconditional love or even some other classically pleasant pro-social emotion.
您想要鼓励的其他内容，例如平静和无条件的爱，甚至其他一些经典的令人愉快的亲社会情感。
And that's all fine.
一切都很好。
That's all possible.
这都是有可能的。
But the real wisdom, the 2,000-year-old wisdom of meditation that really is the chewy center of the Tootsie Pop, is a recognition of what consciousness itself is always already like, regardless of the contents and the changes in contents.
但真正的智慧，2000年前的冥想智慧，确实是Tootsie Pop的耐嚼中心，是对意识本身始终已经是什么样子的认识，无论其内容和内容如何变化。
And classic flow experiences have this quality, and this tends to be why they're so rewarding, where if you're in some athletic activity or an aesthetic one, or you could be having sex or you could be, whatever it is, some peak experience, its peakness usually entails there being some brief period where there was no distance between you and the experience.
经典的心流体验就具有这种品质，这往往就是它们如此有价值的原因，如果你正在进行某种体育活动或审美活动，或者你可能正在做爱，或者你可能是，无论是什么，某种巅峰体验，它的巅峰通常意味着有一段短暂的时期，你和体验之间没有距离。
For that moment, you were no longer looking over your own shoulder or anticipating the next moment or trying to get somewhere where you weren't or micromanaging errors.
在那一刻，你不再审视自己，不再期待下一刻，也不再试图到达你没有到达的地方，也不再对错误进行微观管理。
There's just the flow of unity with whatever the experience is.
无论经历是什么，都会有统一的流动。
A surfer on the wave, right?
冲浪者，对吗？
And we love those experiences.
我们喜欢这些经历。
We are continually abstracted away from them by our thinking about them.
由于我们对它们的思考，我们不断地从它们中抽离出来。
We think, "Oh my God, that was so good," or, "How do I get back to that?" Or you're looking at a sunset.
我们想，“天啊，那太好了”，或者“我该如何回到那个状态呢？”或者你正在看日落。
It's the most beautiful sunset you've ever seen, and then you're continually interrupting the experience of merely seeing it with a commentary about how amazing this is, and, "I wonder, what are real estate prices here?
这是你见过的最美丽的日落，然后你不断地打断仅仅观看它的体验，评论这是多么令人惊奇，并且，“我想知道，这里的房地产价格是多少？
Is it possible that we could move here?" Your mind is just continually narrating a conversation you're having with yourself, however paradoxically.
我们可以搬到这里吗？”你的大脑只是不断地叙述你与自己的对话，无论多么矛盾。
You're telling yourself things that you already know As though there were two of you rather often, right?
你告诉自己一些你已经知道的事情，就好像你们经常是两个人一样，对吧？
I'm looking for which is the water, and I say, "Oh, there it is," right?
我正在寻找哪一个是水，然后我说，“哦，就在那里，”对吧？
But I'm the one seeing it.
但我是看到它的人。
Who am I saying, "Oh, there it is," to?
我在对谁说“哦，就是这样”？
As though there's someone else who needs to be informed about the thing I already saw, right?
好像还有其他人需要知道我已经看到的事情，对吧？
So there's something about our internal dialogue that is paradoxical, and that's what ultimately meditation is.
因此，我们的内部对话有些矛盾，而这就是冥想的最终意义。
This kind of meditation.
这种冥想。
You ultimately learn to recognize that there's no separation between you and your experience, right?
你最终会认识到你和你的经历之间没有分离，对吗？
There's not the experience on the one hand and the self on the other.
一方面没有经验，另一方面也没有自我。
There's just experience.
只是有经验而已。
It's not that you're on the riverbank.
这并不是说你在河岸上。
And this is how it can seem in the beginning, even when you're practicing meditation fairly diligently.
这就是一开始的样子，即使你相当勤奋地练习冥想。
It can seem like you're on the riverbank watching the contents of consciousness flow by.
看起来你就像在河岸上看着意识的内容流过。
And meditation is the act of doing that more and more dispassionately.
冥想就是越来越冷静地这样做的行为。
So you're no longer grabbing at the pleasant or pushing the unpleasant away.
所以你不再抓住令人愉快的东西或把不愉快的东西推开。
You're just kind of relaxing and in the most non-judgmental frame of mind, just witnessing the flow, right?
你只是在放松，以最不评判的心态，只是见证流动，对吗？
But if you're doing that dualistically, you feel like the meditator.
但如果你以二元的方式这样做，你就会感觉自己像冥想者。
You feel like the subject aiming attention.
您感觉自己是吸引注意力的对象。
And so now you're on the riverbank watching everything go past.
现在你在河岸上看着一切过去。
But the truth is, you are the river.
但事实是，你就是河流。
There's a process by which you would eventually recognize that there's no distance between you and your experience.
有一个过程，你最终会认识到你和你的经历之间没有距离。
And again, you can wait for those moments in life where experience gets so good or so terrifying, or it's just so salient, right?
再说一遍，你可以等待生命中那些经历变得如此美好或如此可怕的时刻，或者它是如此显着，对吗？
Your amygdala is driving so hard.
你的杏仁核运转得太厉害了。
So you're in a war and you can't think about anything because the enemy's shooting at you, and this is the most thrilling video game you've ever played in your life, and your life is on the line.
所以你身处一场战争中，你无法思考任何事情，因为敌人向你射击，这是你一生中玩过的最惊心动魄的电子游戏，你的生命岌岌可危。
Or you're at the peak of some athletic event where you don't know how you're doing the things you're doing, but it's all happening automatically, right?
或者你正处于某项体育赛事的巅峰，你不知道自己是如何做你正在做的事情，但这一切都是自动发生的，对吗？
But those are 1/100 of 1% of one's life.
但那些只是一个人生命的1%的1/100。
And what I'm calling meditation is a way of simply understanding the mechanics of attention whereby you are denying yourself that unity of experience so much of the time and recognizing that it's based on a misperception of the way consciousness always already is.
我所说的冥想是一种简单地理解注意力机制的方法，通过这种方式，你在很多时候都在否认自己的经验统一性，并认识到它是基于对意识本来就存在的方式的误解。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Eight Sleep.
我想稍微休息一下，并向我们的赞助商“八睡”表示感谢。
Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.
August Sleep 生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能的智能床垫套。
One of the best ways to ensure you get a great night's sleep is to make sure that the temperature of your sleeping environment is correct.
确保您睡个好觉的最佳方法之一是确保睡眠环境的温度正确。
And that's because in order to fall asleep and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about one to three degrees.
这是因为为了入睡并保持深度睡眠，您的体温实际上必须下降约一到三度。
And in order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature actually has to increase by about one to three degrees.
为了醒来时感觉神清气爽、精力充沛，您的体温实际上必须升高约一到三度。
Eight Sleep automatically regulates the temperature of your bed throughout the night according to your unique needs.
八睡眠会根据您的独特需求自动调节整个晚上的床温。
I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for nearly five years now, and it has completely transformed and improved the quality of my sleep.
我已经睡在八睡眠床垫罩上近五年了，它彻底改变并改善了我的睡眠质量。
The latest Eight Sleep model is the Pod 5.
最新的八睡眠型号是 Pod 5。
This is what I'm now sleeping on, and I absolutely love it.
这就是我现在睡觉的地方，我非常喜欢它。
It has so many incredible features.
它有很多令人难以置信的功能。
For instance, the Pod 5 has a feature called Autopilot, which is an AI engine that learns your sleep patterns and then adjusts the temperature of your sleeping environment across different sleep stages.
例如，Pod 5有一个名为Autopilot的功能，这是一个人工智能引擎，可以学习你的睡眠模式，然后在不同的睡眠阶段调整你的睡眠环境温度。
It'll even elevate your head if you're snoring, and it makes other shifts to optimize your sleep.
如果您打鼾，它甚至会抬高您的头部，并进行其他转换以优化您的睡眠。
If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, go to eightsleep.com/huberman to get up to $350 off the new Pod 5.
如果您想尝试八睡眠，请访问八睡眠.com/huberman，新款 Pod 5 最高可享受 350 美元优惠。
Eight Sleep ships to many countries worldwide, including Mexico and the UAE.
八号睡眠船运往世界各地的许多国家，包括墨西哥和阿联酋。
Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $350.
同样，访问八睡眠.com/huberman 最多可节省 350 美元。
Something about our developmental wiring and the algorithms that these neural circuits run tend to bias most people, the non-practice meditators, to live a somewhat functional life at least, without this awareness of actor and observer.
我们的发展线路和这些神经回路运行的算法往往会使大多数人（非练习冥想者）产生偏见，至少过上某种功能性的生活，而没有这种演员和观察者的意识。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
And so what you're really talking about is a deliberate intervention to understand and resolve that gap in the algorithm.
所以你真正谈论的是一种有意的干预，以理解和解决算法中的差距。
So what are your thoughts about the organization of the circuitry to essentially, under normal conditions, to not reveal what seems to be one of its more important and profound and, dare I say, enlightening features, right?
那么，您对电路的组织有何看法，即在正常情况下，本质上不揭示其更重要、更深刻的特征之一，而且我敢说，具有启发性的特征，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
It's almost as if that we have to intervene in the self in order to reveal the self.
就好像我们必须干预自我才能揭示自我。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We are not set up by evolution to be as happy as we possibly can be and to do almost anything that interests us well.
进化并没有让我们尽可能快乐，也没有做任何我们感兴趣的事情。
We're not set up by evolution to be mathematicians or musicians or to create democracies that are healthy.
进化并没有让我们成为数学家或音乐家，也没有创造健康的民主国家。
We are doing these things based on cognitive and emotional hardware that we are leveraging in new directions, right?
我们做这些事情是基于认知和情感硬件，我们正在新的方向上利用这些硬件，对吗？
We are primates and we're communicating with small mouth noises.
我们是灵长类动物，我们用小嘴的声音进行交流。
We're language-using primates and all of that is clearly evolved.
我们是使用语言的灵长类动物，所有这些显然都是进化而来的。
And we're doing these amazing things, including science, however improbably, we're actually able to almost entirely with language, understand reality at a scale that exceeds us in both directions.
我们正在做这些令人惊奇的事情，包括科学，无论多么不可能，我们实际上几乎完全能够用语言来理解现实，其规模在两个方向上都超过了我们。
The very vast and the very small and also temporally, the very old.
非常巨大和非常小，以及暂时的、非常古老的。
It's amazing that we can do all of those things, but evolution is blind to all of that.
令人惊奇的是我们可以做所有这些事情，但进化对所有这些都视而不见。
We have flown the perch that was created for us by evolution.
我们飞上了进化为我们创造的栖息地。
It's not just the primate things.
这不仅仅是灵长类动物的事情。
So, so it is with learning how to regulate our emotions and punch through to a self-concept or beyond a self-concept that is more normative psychologically, that allows us to not be Terrorized by our apish genes.
因此，学习如何调节我们的情绪并突破自我概念或超越心理上更规范的自我概念，可以让我们不被我们的猿类基因吓倒。
Evolution never thought to build us an off switch for this, right?
进化从来没有想过为此给我们建立一个关闭开关，对吗？
Language is so useful and it gets tuned up so strongly for us.
语言是如此有用，而且它对我们来说如此强烈。
And there was never a reason to shut it off, right?
而且从来没有理由将其关闭，对吧？
There was never a reason to give you this ability to say, "Oh, wouldn't it be nice to have four hours of quiet now?
从来没有理由让你有能力说：“哦，现在安静四个小时不是很好吗？
Like no self-talk?" For most of us, we are covertly talking basically all the time.
就像没有自言自语一样？”对于我们大多数人来说，我们基本上一直在秘密地交谈。
And there's an imagistic component of this for many people.
对于很多人来说，这其中有一个想象的成分。
You're visualizing things as well, but there's just a ton of white noise in the mind that feels a certain way.
你也在想象事物，但脑子里只有大量的白噪音，有某种特定的感觉。
And what you discover in meditation ultimately is that the self is what it feels like to be thinking without knowing that you're thinking.
在冥想中你最终会发现，自我就是在不知道自己在思考的情况下思考的感觉。
So you and I are talking now, people are listening to us, they're struggling to follow the train of this conversation because it is competing with the conversation that's happening in their heads.
所以你和我现在正在说话，人们正在听我们说话，他们正在努力跟上这次对话的节奏，因为它正在与他们头脑中发生的对话竞争。
So the first discovery people make in meditation is that it's just so hard to pay attention to anything, the breath or a mantra or a sound, whatever it is, because you're thinking.
因此，人们在冥想中的第一个发现是，很难注意到任何事物，呼吸、咒语或声音，无论是什么，因为你在思考。
You're thinking about the thing you need to do in an hour and, "Oh, it's so good that I downloaded this app.
您正在思考一个小时内需要做的事情，然后说：“哦，太好了，我下载了这个应用程序。
This is really good.
这真是太好了。
This is going to be good for me." But that chatter isn't showing up.
这对我来说有好处。”但那种喋喋不休并没有出现。
You're not far back enough in the theater of consciousness so as to see it emerge.
你在意识剧场中还没有回到足够远的地方来看到它的出现。
It is just sneaking up behind you and it feels like me again.
它只是悄悄靠近你，感觉又像我了。
When someone is thinking the thought, well, what the hell does that mean, right?
当有人思考这个想法时，好吧，这到底意味着什么，对吧？
They're not seeing it as an emerging object in consciousness.
他们并没有将其视为意识中正在出现的物体。
It just feels like me.
感觉就像我一样。
Subjectively, it's like the mind contracts around this appearance in consciousness, and it's just a sound with the voice of the mind.
主观上，就像心在意识中围绕着这个显现收缩一样，它只是心的声音的声音。
If you actually can inspect it, it is deeply inscrutable that we ever feel identified with our thoughts.
如果你真的能够检查一下，就会发现我们是否曾对自己的想法感到认同，这是非常难以理解的。
How is it that we could be a thought?
我们怎么可能成为一个思想呢？
A thought just arises and passes away, and when you go to inspect it, it unravels.
念头会生起又消失，当你去审视它时，它就会瓦解。
It's the least substantial possible thing.
这是最不重要的事情。
But yet it could be a thought of self-hatred.
但这可能是一种自我憎恨的想法。
It could be a thought that unrecognized totally defines your mood.
这可能是一个未被认识到的想法完全定义了你的心情。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
If you could elaborate a bit on this notion of internal chatter and external stimuli.
如果您能详细说明一下内部喋喋不休和外部刺激的概念。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
Is just the recognition that there's a dialogue ongoing internally, is that itself valuable?
只是承认内部正在进行对话，这本身有价值吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So here's a claim I would make that some people might find surprising, but I think this is an objectively true claim about the subjectivity of most people, which is that unless you have a fair amount of training, unless you just happen to be some kind of savant in this area, which most people, by definition, aren't, I believe this is a true claim that if we just put a stopwatch on this table and people could just watch 30 seconds elapse, and I set all of our listeners or your viewers the task, for the next 30 seconds, just pay attention to anything, your breath, or the sight of your hand, or the sight of the clock, or any object without getting lost in thought, without getting momentarily distracted by this conversation you're having with yourself.
所以我要提出的一个主张有些人可能会感到惊讶，但我认为这是关于大多数人的主观性的客观真实的主张，也就是说，除非你接受过相当多的训练，除非你恰好是这个领域的某种专家，而大多数人，根据定义，不是，我相信这是一个真实的主张，如果我们在这张桌子上放一个秒表，人们可以只看30秒的流逝，我给我们所有的听众或你的观众设定了任务，在接下来的30秒里，只要注意任何事情，你的呼吸，或者你的手的视线，或者时钟的视线，或者任何物体，不要陷入沉思，不要因为你与自己的对话而暂时分心。
A couple of things would happen.
会发生一些事情。
One is no one would be able to do it.
一是没有人能够做到这一点。
This is not just a superficial inability.
这不仅仅是表面上的无能。
If your life depended on it, you wouldn't be able to do it.
如果你的生命依赖于它，你就无法做到这一点。
If the fate of civilization depended on it, none of our listeners would be able to do this.
如果文明的命运取决于它，那么我们的听众将无法做到这一点。
And yet some percentage of them are so distracted by thought that they will actually try this experiment and think they succeeded.
然而，他们中的一部分人却因为思想而分心，以至于他们实际上会尝试这个实验并认为自己成功了。
Right?
正确的？
And for these people, what happens is you put them on a meditation retreat and you have them spend 12 hours a day in silence doing nothing but this, right?
对于这些人来说，会发生什么，你让他们进行冥想静修，让他们每天安静地度过 12 个小时，除了这个什么都不做，对吗？
So the practice is just pay attention to the breath when they're sitting, and then eventually, you incorporate everything, sounds and other sensations.
所以练习时只需注意他们坐着时的呼吸，然后最终，你将所有的东西、声音和其他感觉结合起来。
And then you interleave that with walking meditation, where they're paying attention just to the sensations of lifting and moving and placing their feet.
然后你将其与步行冥想交织在一起，在步行冥想中，他们只注意抬起、移动和放置脚的感觉。
And then, once the practice is going, you incorporate sounds and sights and everything.
然后，一旦练习开始，你就会将声音、景象和一切结合起来。
So you can pay attention to everything, but the goal is for every moment, you are going to cultivate this faculty of mind, which increasingly is known as mindfulness, right?
所以你可以关注一切，但目标是每时每刻，你都要培养这种心智能力，这种能力越来越被称为正念，对吗？
And mindfulness is nothing other than this very careful attention to the contents of consciousness.
正念无非是对意识内容的非常仔细的关注。
But the crucial piece is it is not a moment of being lost in thought, right?
但关键是这不是陷入沉思的时刻，对吗？
You're not blocking thoughts.
你没有阻挡思想。
Thoughts themselves can arise, but in those moments of being truly mindful, you're noticing thoughts as thoughts, whether it's language in the mind or images, you're noticing those, too, as spontaneous appearances in consciousness.
想法本身可以出现，但在那些真正正念的时刻，你会注意到想法就是想法，无论是头脑中的语言还是图像，你也会注意到它们是意识中自发的表现。
Most people, certainly anyone who thinks they can pay attention to something for 30 seconds without being lost in thought, you put those people on a meditation retreat, what they're going to experience is on the first day, they're going to feel like, oh, yeah, I was with the breath, or I was with the sensations of walking, and I'd be there for five minutes solid, and then I would get lost in thought, then I'd come back.
大多数人，当然是任何认为自己可以集中注意力30秒而不陷入沉思的人，你让这些人进行冥想静修，他们将在第一天体验到，他们会感觉，哦，是的，我与呼吸在一起，或者我与行走的感觉在一起，我会在那里呆上五分钟，然后我会陷入沉思，然后我会回来。
And then five more minutes, I'd be lost in thought, then I'd get back.
然后再过五分钟，我就会陷入沉思，然后我就会回来。
But as the days progressed, even 10 days into a silent meditation retreat, they're going to experience more and more distraction.
但随着时间的推移，即使是静修静修十天，他们也会经历越来越多的干扰。
It's going to seem like, okay, wait a minute, now I can't pay attention to anything for more than five seconds, right?
看起来好像是，好吧，等一下，现在我注意力不能超过五秒钟，对吧？
Because what they're discovering is just how distractible they are.
因为他们发现自己是多么容易分心。
If you train your attention in this way To notice the particularities of sensory experience and emotional experience.
如果你通过这种方式训练你的注意力，就能注意到感官体验和情感体验的特殊性。
You're looking for the atoms of experience.
你正在寻找经验的原子。
You get better and better at that, and certain things happen.
你在这方面做得越来越好，某些事情就会发生。
But one thing that I really do think happens is there's a kind of frame rate change in the data stream where you really are just noticing much, much more.
但我确实认为发生的一件事是数据流中存在一种帧速率变化，您实际上只是注意到了很多很多。
This whole dance of I'm lost in thought, now I'm strategically directing my attention again, all of this seems to ramify this sense of self, the sense of there's one to be doing this.
我陷入了沉思，现在我再次战略性地引导我的注意力，所有这一切似乎都影响了这种自我意识，有人在做这件事的感觉。
There's somebody holding the spotlight of attention and getting better at coming back to the object of meditation.
有人占据了注意力的聚光灯，并且越来越擅长回到冥想的对象上。
But the thing I like to do when I talk about all of this is undercut the false assumptions that are anchoring all of that as early as possible, because where I think you want to be is recognizing that there is no place from which to aim attention, right?
但当我谈论这一切时，我喜欢做的事情是尽早削弱那些支撑所有这些的错误假设，因为我认为你想要的就是认识到没有地方可以集中注意力，对吗？
This whole dualistic setup of subject and object is the thing that is already not there.
主体和客体的整个二元设置已经不存在了。
And it's not that it's there and you meditate it out of existence successfully.
并不是说它就在那里，你成功地冥想它就消失了。
It's really not there.
它真的不在那里。
And if you learn how to look for it, you can see that it's not there and feel that it's not there, and it no longer seems to be there, right?
如果你学会如何寻找它，你就会发现它不在那儿，感觉它不在那儿，而且它似乎不再在那儿，对吧？
And it becomes, again, like a bistable percept where you looked at it long enough and you thought, "Okay, now I see the vase and the face, and I can't unsee it, and every time I look, it's there again."
它再次变得像一种双稳态感知，你看着它足够长的时间，你想，“好吧，现在我看到了花瓶和脸，我无法忽视它，每次我看，它又在那里。”
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
I'd like to take a brief break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Waking Up.
我想短暂休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一“醒来”。
Waking Up is a meditation app that offers hundreds of guided meditation programs, mindfulness trainings, yoga nidra sessions, and more.
Waking Up 是一款冥想应用程序，提供数百个引导冥想计划、正念训练、瑜伽休息课程等。
I started practicing meditation when I was about 15 years old, and it made a profound impact on my life.
我大约15岁的时候开始练习冥想，它对我的生活产生了深远的影响。
In recent years, I started using the Waking Up app for my meditations because I find it to be a terrific resource for allowing me to really be consistent with my meditation practice.
近年来，我开始使用“Waking Up”应用程序进行冥想，因为我发现它是一个很棒的资源，可以让我真正坚持我的冥想练习。
Many people start a meditation practice and experience some benefits, but many people also have challenges keeping up with that practice.
许多人开始冥想练习并体验到一些好处，但许多人也面临着跟上练习的挑战。
What I and so many other people love about the Waking Up app is that it has a lot of different meditations to choose from, and those meditations are of different durations.
我和许多其他人喜欢“醒来”应用程序的原因是它有很多不同的冥想可供选择，而且这些冥想的持续时间也不同。
So it makes it very easy to keep up with your meditation practice, both from the perspective of novelty, you never get tired of those meditations, there's always something new to explore and to learn about yourself and about the effectiveness of meditation.
所以它让你很容易跟上你的冥想练习，无论是从新奇的角度来看，你永远不会厌倦这些冥想，总有一些新的东西可以探索和了解你自己以及冥想的有效性。
And you can always fit meditation into your schedule, even if you only have two or three minutes per day in which to meditate.
即使您每天只有两到三分钟的时间进行冥想，您也可以随时将冥想纳入您的日程安排中。
If you'd like to try the Waking Up app, please go to wakingup.com/huberman, where you can access a free 30-day trial.
如果您想尝试 Waking Up 应用程序，请访问 wakingup.com/huberman，在这里您可以免费试用 30 天。
Again, that's wakingup.com/huberman to access a free 30-day trial.
同样，访问 wakingup.com/huberman 即可获得 30 天免费试用。
If we were to break it down meditation into some basic component parts, what are the component parts?
如果我们将冥想分解为一些基本的组成部分，那么组成部分是什么？
And where I'm really going with this is why would those component parts eventually allow for the realization that there is no distinction between actor and observer and so on?
我真正想说的是，为什么这些组成部分最终会允许人们认识到参与者和观察者之间没有区别等等？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Ultimately, meditation is not a practice that you're adding to your life.
最终，冥想并不是你在生活中添加的一种练习。
It's not a doing more of anything.
这不是做更多的事情。
It's actually ceasing to do something.
它实际上是停止做某事。
It's ultimately non-distraction.
最终是不分心。
Ultimately, you're recognizing what consciousness is like when you're no longer distracted by the automatic arising of thought.
最终，当你不再被自动产生的思想分散注意力时，你就会认识到意识是什么样子。
It's not that thoughts don't arise.
这并不是说念头不会生起。
It's not that you can't use them.
这并不是说您不能使用它们。
It's not that you become irrational or unintelligent.
这并不是说你变得不理性或不聪明。
You still have all of your tools, but everything is in plain view.
您仍然拥有所有工具，但一切都清晰可见。
There's an analogy in Tibetan Buddhism which I love, which is thoughts are like thieves entering an empty house.
我很喜欢藏传佛教中的一个比喻，那就是思想就像小偷进入一间空房子。
There's nothing for them to steal, right?
他们没有什么可偷的，对吧？
So in the usual case, thoughts are, there really is something in jeopardy.
所以在通常情况下，我们的想法是，确实有什么东西处于危险之中。
Every time a thought comes, I'm not meditating anymore, and not only that, I feel terrible because of what I'm thinking about most of the time, right?
每当一个想法出现时，我就不再冥想了，不仅如此，我因为大部分时间都在想什么而感觉很糟糕，对吗？
So it's totally understandable that thoughts seem like a problem in the beginning.
因此，思想一开始看起来像是一个问题，这是完全可以理解的。
And for certain types of meditation, they are explicitly thought of as a problem because you're trying to focus on one thing to the exclusion of everything else, including thought.
对于某些类型的冥想，它们被明确认为是一个问题，因为你试图专注于一件事，而排除其他一切，包括思想。
And that's a training that can be good to do.
这是一项很有好处的培训。
It becomes a tool that you can use for other kinds of insight, but it's a very specific and brittle skill in the end.
它成为一种可以用于其他类型洞察力的工具，但最终它是一种非常具体且脆弱的技能。
It's a skill, just like I'm going to pay attention to one thing, and I'm going to do that so well that everything else is going to fade out.
这是一种技能，就像我会关注一件事，并且我会做得很好，其他一切都会消失。
Meditatively, if you have a laser focus on any one thing, whether it's the breath or whatever it is, you can lose all sense of everything.
冥想时，如果你全神贯注于任何一件事，无论是呼吸还是其他什么，你就会失去对一切的所有感觉。
You can lose all sense of hearing, and your physical body can disappear.
你可能会失去所有听觉，你的身体也会消失。
Literally, it can become incredibly subtle and vast and drug-like.
从字面上看，它可以变得极其微妙、巨大，就像毒品一样。
And many people approach meditation thinking kind of climbing the ladder of those changes into subtlety and vastness.
许多人进行冥想思考时，会攀爬这些变化的阶梯，进入微妙和广阔的阶段。
That's the whole game, right?
这就是整个游戏，对吧？
And it can be a deeply rewarding game to play, and it also does come with all kinds of ancillary benefits.
它可以是一款非常值得玩的游戏，而且它还具有各种附带好处。
All the focus and the calm and the kind of smoothness of emotional states.
所有的专注、平静以及情绪状态的平稳。
All of that comes with greater concentration, and it can be quite wonderful.
所有这一切都需要更加专注，这可能会非常美妙。
But again, at best, that's a tool to aim in the direction that I'm talking about now with respect to meditation, which relates to more what I would call mindfulness generically and ultimately kind of non-dual mindfulness.
但同样，这充其量只是一种工具，旨在朝着我现在谈论的冥想方向发展，这与我所说的一般意义上的正念和最终的非二元正念有关。
The underlying goal is to be more and more equanimous with changes.
根本目标是越来越平静地应对变化。
So it's not to grasp at what's pleasant or interesting and not to push what's unpleasant or boring or otherwise not engaging, away.
因此，这并不是要抓住什么是令人愉快或有趣的事情，也不是要把那些不愉快或无聊或其他不吸引人的事情推开。
What you want is just a kind of a sky-like mind that just allows everything to appear, and you're not clinging to anything or reacting to anything.
你想要的只是一种如天空般的心，只允许一切出现，而你不执着任何事物，也不对任何事物起反应。
This applies not just to something like mindfulness, but even to something like the self, right?
这不仅适用于正念之类的东西，甚至也适用于自我之类的东西，对吧？
So the sense of self ...
那么自我意识...
is also a process.
也是一个过程。
It's a verb.
这是一个动词。
We're selfing more than we are selves.
我们比自我更自我。
And even appropriate uses of the term self that don't go away even when you recognize that the core subject self is an illusion, there are states of self where you can recognize in your life that you inhabit very different modes of being depending on the context.
即使你认识到核心主体自我是一种幻觉，“自我”一词的适当使用也不会消失，在某些自我状态中，你可以在生活中认识到，根据环境的不同，你处于截然不同的存在模式中。
So there are moments where you, just by walking into a certain building, you suddenly transition into a different state of self.
所以有时候，只要你走进某个建筑物，你就会突然转变到一种不同的自我状态。
Suddenly, you pass through a door and now you are a customer in a store.
突然，你穿过一扇门，现在你是一家商店的顾客。
So we know what that customer feeling is.
所以我们知道客户的感受是什么。
You're now the person who's getting the attention.
你现在是最受关注的人了。
It's a very kind of formalized type of attention from the person who is running the store.
这是商店经营者的一种非常正式的关注。
You can be a student in the presence of a teacher.
您可以在老师在场的情况下成为学生。
You can be a parent in the presence of a son or a daughter.
您可以在儿子或女儿面前成为父母。
You can be a spouse in presence of your spouse.
您可以在您的配偶在场的情况下成为配偶。
The change in context really does usher in some fundamental psychological changes in just the states of consciousness that are available.
环境的变化确实会在现有的意识状态中带来一些根本性的心理变化。
More and more, as you become sensitive to these changes and you become sensitive to what it's like to actually not be psychologically reactive and not be definable by your own self-concept, you're not identifying with anything.
越来越多地，当你对这些变化变得敏感，并且你对实际上没有心理反应并且不能由自己的自我概念定义的感觉变得敏感时，你不再认同任何东西。
You're not hanging your hat on anything.
你没有把你的帽子挂在任何东西上。
You're not thinking about yourself in the kind of terms that you would export to others and then care about what they think about you.
你不会以那种向他人输出的方式来思考自己，然后关心他们对你的看法。
There's a kind of invulnerability that arises that's not born of being well-defended.
有一种刀枪不入的感觉，并不是由于防御严密而产生的。
It's born of being evaporated.
它是因蒸发而诞生的。
It's like you're no longer keeping score in those ways.
就好像你不再以这些方式记分一样。
You can leave aside all those circumstances where it's appropriate to react to someone and-
你可以把所有那些适合对某人做出反应的情况放在一边，然后——
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I'm into martial arts and self-defense, and yes, you're not supposed to be just this puddle of goo out in the world who can be just mistreated by people and never put up resistance.
我喜欢武术和自卫，是的，你不应该只是这个世界上的一滩粘糊糊的东西，可以被人虐待而从不反抗。
But psychologically, even if a state like anger or contraction is sometimes normative and appropriate, the question is how long is it normative and appropriate for?
但从心理上来说，即使像愤怒或收缩这样的状态有时是规范和适当的，问题是它持续多久是规范和适当的？
How long do you want to stay angry for?
你还想生气多久？
In my experience, these kind of classically negative emotions like anger and fear are appropriate as salience cues.
根据我的经验，这些典型的负面情绪（例如愤怒和恐惧）适合作为显着线索。
They orient you to an emergency or a potential emergency.
他们引导您应对紧急情况或潜在的紧急情况。
But then in dealing with the emergency, they're almost never the state you want to be in.
但在处理紧急情况时，它们几乎从来都不是你想要的状态。
It's better to actually be calm in an emergency.
在紧急情况下实际上保持冷静会更好。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
Would you say that meditation as a practice done for a few minutes each day or with the app, that it's a kind of a step function?
您是否认为冥想作为每天几分钟或使用应用程序进行的练习，是一种阶梯功能？
Is it very non-linear in terms of people's progress?
就人们的进步而言，它是不是非常非线性？
What does a meditation practice look like over time?
随着时间的推移，冥想练习会是什么样子？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The first step function is to very clearly experience the difference between being lost in thought and being clearly aware of any part of experience, including thought, and to notice the freedom, the comparative psychological freedom that gives you.
第一步的功能是非常清楚地体验迷失在思想中和清楚地意识到经验的任何部分（包括思想）之间的区别，并注意到自由，即给你的相对心理自由。
Something's made you angry, and now you're thinking about all the reasons why you should be angry and have every right to be angry and what you're going to tell that person when you see them, and then you notice you're thinking.
有些事让你生气，现在你正在思考你应该生气的所有原因，你有权利生气，以及当你看到他们时你要告诉那个人什么，然后你注意到你在想。
And you notice the connection between the thought and the anger.
你会注意到想法和愤怒之间的联系。
The minute spent lost in thought about what's making you angry is the thing that drags through the physiology of anger.
花在思考是什么让你生气上的那一分钟，就是拖延愤怒生理机能的事情。
And from the point of view of the one who's being mindful, this is tremendous relief.
从正念者的角度来看，这是一种巨大的解脱。
And at minimum, it's a degree of freedom.
至少，这是一定程度的自由。
You can, at that point, decide, well, how long do I want to be angry for?
那时你可以决定，好吧，我想生气多久？
Is it useful to stay angry?
保持愤怒有用吗？
Do I want to be angry for one minute, two minutes, five minutes, 10 minutes?
我想生气一分钟、两分钟、五分钟、十分钟吗？
And before you have that capacity to be mindful, you're going to helplessly be as angry as you're going to be for as long as you're going to be that way, just based on the time course of your thinking about it, brooding about it, telling your wife about it.
在你有能力保持正念之前，只要你一直这样，你就会无助地生气，这只是基于你思考它、沉思它、告诉你妻子这件事的时间过程。
You are going to be the hostage of that for as long as you'll be the hostage of that.
只要你还是它的人质，你就会成为它的人质。
You'll have nothing you can do apart from just deciding to check out and watch "Game of Thrones" again for the third time.
除了决定第三次观看并观看《权力的游戏》之外，你将无能为力。
You can divert your attention to something else, which is sometimes a good thing to do, but mindfulness, even dualistic mindfulness, gives you this capacity to just observe the mechanics of this and then get off the ride whenever you want.
你可以将注意力转移到其他事情上，这有时是一件好事，但是正念，甚至是二元正念，可以让你有能力观察其中的机制，然后随时下车。
The other step function is noticing that there is no one who is doing that.
另一个步骤功能是注意到没有人在这样做。
This is the non-duality, the selflessness, the centralessness of awareness.
这就是觉知的不二性、无私、中心性。
The fact that there's no place from which the mindfulness is being aimed, but the fact that there's just this open condition in which everything is appearing, thoughts included.
事实上，正念没有任何目标，但事实是，一切事物都在这种开放的状态中出现，包括思想。
At that point, your mindfulness, it's no longer this dualistic effort to strategically pay attention to anything as opposed to being lost in thought.
到那时，你的正念不再是这种二元的努力，策略性地关注任何事物，而不是陷入沉思。
It's just what's left when the present recognized thought unravels.
当当前公认的思想瓦解时，这只是剩下的东西。
Even before it unravels, what's recognized is you are simply identical to the condition in which everything is appearing.
甚至在它解开之前，我们就已经认识到，你与一切出现的状态完全相同。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
Could you tell us why psychedelics can be useful, used safely and responsibly, age appropriate, context appropriate, ideally with some clinical or other type of guidance.
您能否告诉我们为什么迷幻药有用、安全、负责任地使用、适合年龄、适合环境，最好有一些临床或其他类型的指导。
All that stated, what are your thoughts about psychedelics in terms of how they intersect with the discussion that we've been having, and what utility do they play in recognition of the self or in other sorts of brain changes?
综上所述，您对迷幻药有何看法？它们如何与我们一直在进行的讨论相交叉，以及它们在认识自我或其他类型的大脑变化方面有何用处？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I would just say that for many of us, certainly for me, psychedelics were indispensable in the beginning in proving to me that a first-person interrogation of the mind was worth doing.
我只想说，对于我们许多人来说，当然对于我来说，迷幻药在一开始就不可或缺，它向我证明了对心灵的第一人称审问是值得做的。
For somebody like me at 18, the noun meditation meant absolutely nothing to me before I took my first dose of, in this case, it was MDMA.
对于像我这样 18 岁的人来说，在我第一次服用 MDMA 之前，名词“冥想”对我来说毫无意义。
One of the limitations of a drug is that, obviously, no matter how good the experience, the drug wears off and then you're back to in more or less your usual form, and now you have a memory of the experience.
药物的局限性之一是，显然，无论体验有多好，药物都会逐渐消失，然后你或多或少会回到平常的状态，现在你对这段经历有了记忆。
And it can be a fairly dim memory.
这可能是一段相当模糊的记忆。
Some of these experiences are so discontinuous with normal waking consciousness that it can be like trying to remember a dream, where you recognize, okay, there was a way of being that is quite different than what I'm tending to access by default, and it is different in ways that are obviously better and psychologically more healthy.
其中一些体验与正常的清醒意识非常不连续，就像试图记住一个梦一样，你认识到，好吧，有一种存在方式与我默认的存在方式完全不同，而且它的不同方式明显更好，心理上更健康。
It's possible to be healthy psychologically in a way that I never imagined.
以我从未想象过的方式保持心理健康是可能的。
Once you have one of these experiences on psychedelics or on a drug like MDMA, you know that there's a there there.
一旦您有过服用迷幻药或摇头丸等药物的经历，您就会知道那里有这样的经历。
You know that unconditional love is a possibility.
你知道无条件的爱是有可能的。
If your only framework is the good experiences, the good feels you had on whatever drug it was, I think you can be misled to just seek lots of peak experiences.
如果你唯一的框架是良好的体验，无论你使用什么药物所获得的良好感觉，我认为你可能会被误导，只寻求大量的巅峰体验。
You're just trying to string together a lot of peak experiences hoping they're going to change you, every one of which by definition is going to be impermanent.
你只是试图将许多高峰体验串在一起，希望它们能够改变你，但根据定义，每一种体验都将是无常的。
What everyone really wants, whether they know it or not, and their right to want, is a type of freedom that is compatible with even ordinary states of consciousness.
每个人真正想要的，无论他们是否知道，以及他们想要的权利，是一种与普通意识状态兼容的自由。
I hadn't done psychedelics for 25 years because, again, they were super useful for me in the beginning.
我已经 25 年没有使用迷幻药了，因为它们一开始对我来说非常有用。
Then I discovered meditation on the basis of those experiences, got really into meditation, and realized, okay, conceptually this makes much more sense to me.
然后我在这些经历的基础上发现了冥想，真正进入冥想，并意识到，好吧，从概念上讲，这对我来说更有意义。
This is delivering the goods, in terms of my experience.
根据我的经验，这就是交付货物。
There's no need to keep seeking these peak experiences with drugs.
没有必要继续寻求这些毒品的巅峰体验。
So what I think people want is a way of having free attention and unconditional love in this totally ordinary and potentially chaotic human experience, which can be psychologically fraught, and you can meet iterations of yourself that you don't like, that are not equipping you to be the best possible person in that relationship.
所以我认为人们想要的是一种在这种完全普通且可能混乱的人类经历中获得自由关注和无条件的爱的方式，这可能会在心理上令人担忧，你可能会遇到你不喜欢的自己的迭代，这并不能让你成为这段关系中最好的人。
And what we want to do is cut through all of that and actually be in love with our lives and with the people in our lives more and more of the time.
我们想做的就是摆脱这一切，越来越多地真正爱上我们的生活和生活中的人。
I'm not saying that repeated psychedelic journeys can't be integral to that project.
我并不是说重复的迷幻之旅不能成为该项目的一部分。
But you know that the project can't be being high all the time, right?
但你知道这个项目不可能一直都很高，对吧？
So whatever is extractable from the occasional psychedelic trip has got to be mappable into ordinary waking consciousness.
因此，从偶尔的迷幻之旅中提取的任何东西都必须可以映射到普通的清醒意识中。
And the real point of contact does kind of run through this, what I've been calling the illusion of the self.
真正的接触点确实贯穿于此，我一直称之为自我的幻觉。
And again, that part is discoverable without any changes in contents.
再说一次，该部分是可以发现的，无需对内容进行任何更改。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。
AG1 is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that also includes prebiotics and adaptogens.
AG1 是一种维生素矿物质益生菌饮料，还包含益生元和适应原。
I discovered AG1 way back in 2012, long before I ever had a podcast, and I've been taking it every day since.
我早在 2012 年就发现了 AG1，那时我还没有播客，从那时起我就每天都在服用它。
The reason I started taking AG1, and the reason I still take it every day, is because AG1 is, to my knowledge, the highest quality and most comprehensive of the foundational nutritional supplements on the market.
我开始服用 AG1 的原因，以及我仍然每天服用的原因，是因为据我所知，AG1 是市场上质量最高、最全面的基础营养补充剂。
AG1 is designed to support things like gut health, immune health, and overall energy, and it does so by helping to fill any gaps that you might have in your daily nutrition.
AG1 旨在支持肠道健康、免疫健康和整体能量等方面，它通过帮助填补您日常营养中可能存在的任何缺口来实现这一目标。
I get asked pretty much all the time, "If I could only take one supplement, what should that supplement be?" And my answer is always AG1.
我经常被问到，“如果我只能服用一种补充剂，那么该补充剂应该是什么？”我的答案始终是AG1。
It has just been so helpful for supporting all aspects of physical health, mental health, and performance.
它对于支持身体健康、心理健康和表现的各个方面都非常有帮助。
If you would like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 以获得特别优惠。
For a limited time, AG1 is giving away a free bottle of their new omega-3 coenzyme Q10 product.
AG1 限时免费赠送一瓶新的 omega-3 辅酶 Q10 产品。
Omega-3 and coenzyme Q10 are known to support cardiovascular health, cellular health and energy generally, brain health, and much more.
众所周知，Omega-3 和辅酶 Q10 可支持心血管健康、细胞健康和能量、大脑健康等。
I personally take them both every day.
我个人每天都会服用它们。
Again, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get a free bottle of the new omega-3 coenzyme Q10 with your first AG1 subscription.
同样，请访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman，首次订阅 AG1 即可免费获得一瓶新型 omega-3 辅酶 Q10。
None of this can really be solved in a single practice, it sounds like, but it does seem to me based on what you've told us today, is that only through a deep understanding of the self as it really is, as opposed to this illusion that you framed up, could we actually arrive at some answers about what's actually right for each and every one of us?
听起来，这一切都不能通过一次实践真正解决，但根据你今天告诉我们的内容，在我看来，只有通过深入了解自我的本来面目，而不是你所构建的这种幻想，我们才能真正找到一些答案，了解什么才是真正适合我们每个人的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's one generic answer that I think can be extracted both from psychedelics and from meditation, and just from just thinking more clearly about the nature of our lives, and it's to become more process-oriented and to be more and more sensitive to the mirage-like character of achieving our goals.
我认为可以从致幻剂和冥想中提取出一个通用的答案，只需更清楚地思考我们生活的本质，那就是变得更加以过程为导向，对实现目标的海市蜃楼般的特征越来越敏感。
Right now, I'm not against achieving goals.
现在，我并不反对实现目标。
I have a lot of goals.
我有很多目标。
I'm very busy.
我很忙。
There are lots of things I want to get done, and I'm as satisfied as anyone to finish a project.
我有很多事情想要完成，并且我和任何人一样对完成一个项目感到满意。
But if you look at the time course of all of that fulfillment, and there are a few lessons everyone I think has to draw.
但如果你看看所有这些成就的时间进程，我认为每个人都应该吸取一些教训。
One is most of your life is spent in the process, right?
一是你一生的大部分时间都是在这个过程中度过的，对吗？
The moment at which the goal is fully conquered, it's a tiny duration, and it has a very short half-life.
完全攻克目标的那一刻，持续的时间很短，半衰期也很短。
And the moment you arrive at it It begins to recede because in the meantime, you have all these other goals that have appeared on the horizon.
当你到达它的那一刻，它就开始消退，因为与此同时，你还有所有这些已经出现在地平线上的其他目标。
And in some sense, if you're focused on goals, you can never arrive.
从某种意义上说，如果你专注于目标，你永远无法实现。
I think what we're all looking for in life, we're looking for good enough reasons to let our attention fully rest in the present.
我认为我们在生活中所追求的就是寻找足够好的理由让我们的注意力完全停留在当下。
That is the logic of success.
这就是成功的逻辑。
The sense like I've got all these things I want to do.
感觉就像我已经拥有了所有我想做的事情。
If I could just get rich enough or fit enough or dial in my sleep well enough or improve my life in all these ways, get the right relationship, wouldn't it be great to be married?
如果我能够变得足够富有，或者足够健康，或者让我的睡眠足够好，或者通过所有这些方式改善我的生活，获得正确的关系，结婚不是很好吗？
I want to start a family.
我想组建家庭。
I want all of these things.
我想要所有这些东西。
I'm not discounting those relative forms of happiness or sources of happiness.
我并不是贬低那些相对形式的幸福或幸福的来源。
But one thing is absolutely clear: It's possible to be miserable in the presence of all of those things.
但有一点是绝对清楚的：面对所有这些事情，我们可能会感到痛苦。
And you can add great wealth and fame and everything on top of that, and it's possible to be absolutely miserable having everything anyone could seemingly want.
你可以增加巨大的财富和名誉以及除此之外的一切，拥有任何人看似想要的一切可能会绝对痛苦。
So what is it that we actually want in all of our seeking to arrange the props in our lives and the story, to have a convincing enough story to tell about ourselves that we're doing the right thing?
那么，在我们努力安排生活和故事中的道具时，我们真正想要的是什么，想要有一个足够令人信服的故事来告诉我们自己，我们正在做正确的事情呢？
What is all of that effort predicated on?
所有这些努力的基础是什么？
It's predicated on this desire and this expectation that if we could get all of this stuff in the right place and not have anything terrifying to worry about.
它基于这种愿望和期望，即如果我们能够将所有这些东西放在正确的位置，并且没有任何可怕的事情需要担心。
Everyone we love is healthy for the moment.
我们所爱的每个人目前都很健康。
And we're healthy, and we've got something to look forward to on the weekend, and there's not a plumbing leak in the house that we have to immediately respond to.
我们很健康，周末有一些值得期待的事情，而且房子里没有管道泄漏，我们必须立即做出反应。
And we like our house, and our career is going fine.
我们喜欢我们的房子，我们的事业也进展顺利。
Now can we just actually give up the war?
现在我们真的可以放弃战争吗？
Can we fully locate our sense of well-being in the present moment?
我们能否充分定位当下的幸福感？
Can we relax the impulse to brood about the past or think anxiously about the future for long enough to discover that all of this here is enough?
我们能否放松沉思过去或焦虑地思考未来的冲动足够长的时间，以发现这里的一切就足够了？
Even if we're guarding our time to do the things that are most important to us, we can spend all of that time regretting the past or anxiously expecting the future and just bouncing between past and future in our thinking about ourselves and our lives, and basically just dancing over the present and never making contact with it.
即使我们珍惜时间去做对我们来说最重要的事情，我们也可以把所有的时间都花在后悔过去或焦急地期待未来上，在思考我们自己和我们的生活时，只是在过去和未来之间来回跳跃，基本上只是在当下跳舞，从不接触它。
So I think what we want is a circumstance where attention can be located in the present in a way that's truly fulfilling.
所以我认为我们想要的是一种能够以一种真正令人满意的方式将注意力集中在当下的环境。
And unless you have had some kind of radical insight that allows you to do that on demand, you are, in some sense, hostage to the circumstances of your life to do that for you.
除非你有某种激进的洞察力，可以让你根据需要做到这一点，否则从某种意义上说，你会受制于你的生活环境来为你做到这一点。
You're constantly trying to engineer a state of the world that will propagate back on a state of self that will make the present moment good enough.
你不断地尝试设计一种世界状态，这种状态将传播回自我状态，使当下的时刻足够好。
And what meditation does, and psychedelics to some degree does this, but meditation very directly does this, it reverses the causality and lets you actually change states such that you can be fulfilled before anything happens.
冥想的作用，致幻剂在某种程度上可以做到这一点，但冥想非常直接地做到这一点，它颠倒了因果关系，让你真正改变状态，这样你就可以在任何事情发生之前得到满足。
Your happiness is no longer predicated on the next good thing happening.
你的幸福不再取决于下一件好事的发生。
You can be in the presence of the next good or bad thing already being fulfilled.
你可能会面临下一个已经实现的好事或坏事。
It's like how much can you puncture that seeking happiness project with the recognition that you're already free?
这就像当你认识到自己已经自由了的情况下，你能在多大程度上刺穿寻求幸福的计划？
It's not that you just need to be a pushover when you learn how to meditate or you work on yourself in any of these ways, but what I think you want to find is you want to find your point of rest in the midst of any struggle.
当你学习如何冥想或以任何这些方式锻炼自己时，并不是说你只需要成为一个容易被征服的人，但我认为你想要找到的是你想要在任何挣扎中找到你的休息点。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
I feel very blessed in no small part because of our conversation today.
由于我们今天的谈话，我在很大程度上感到非常幸运。
Thank you so much.
太感谢了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nice.
不错。
Well, to be continued.
嗯，待续。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
To be continued.
待续。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
We'll do it again.
我们会再做一次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Sam Harris:
萨姆·哈里斯博士：
And again and again.
一次又一次。
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
You want to impress them on a first date but also play it cool.
你想在第一次约会时给他们留下深刻的印象，但也要表现得冷静。
So what do you do?
那么你做什么呢？
I'm Rufi Thorpe, and I wrote and read a real love story about a Hinge couple that navigated exactly that.
我是鲁菲·索普，我写过并读过一个关于一对铰链夫妇的真实爱情故事，他们的经历正是如此。
Listen to the free audiobook now
立即收听免费有声读物