Essentials: Understand and Use Dreams to Learn and Forget

I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

Today, we're going to talk about dreaming, learning during dreaming, as well as unlearning during dreaming, in particular, unlearning of challenging emotional events.

今天，我们将讨论梦想，在梦想中学习，以及在梦想中忘却，特别是忘却具有挑战性的情感事件。

Now, numerous people throughout history have tried to make sense of dreams in some sort of organized way.

现在，历史上有许多人试图以某种有组织的方式来理解梦。

The most famous of which, of course, is Sigmund Freud, who talked about symbolic representations in dreams.

其中最著名的当然是西格蒙德·弗洛伊德，他谈到了梦中的象征表征。

A lot of that has been kind of debunked, although I think that there's some interest in what the symbols of dreaming are.

尽管我认为人们对梦的象征意义有些兴趣，但其中很多内容已经被揭穿了。

And this is something that we'll talk about in more depth today, although not Freudian theory in particular.

这是我们今天将更深入讨论的内容，尽管不是特别是弗洛伊德理论。

So I think in order to really think about dreams and what to do with them and how to maximize the dream experience for sake of learning and unlearning, the best way to address this is to look at the physiology of sleep, to really address, what do we know concretely about sleep?

所以我认为，为了真正思考梦以及如何处理梦，以及如何最大化梦体验以进行学习和忘却，解决这个问题的最佳方法是研究睡眠的生理学，真正解决我们对睡眠具体了解什么？

So first of all, as we get sleepy, we tend to shut our eyes.

首先，当我们感到困倦时，我们往往会闭上眼睛。

And that's because there are some autonomic centers in the brain, some neurons that control closing of the eyelids when we get sleepy.

那是因为大脑中有一些自主中心，一些神经元在我们困倦时控制眼睑的闭合。

And then we transition into sleep.

然后我们进入睡眠状态。

And sleep, regardless of how long we sleep, is generally broken up into a series of 90-minute cycles, these ultradian cycles.

而睡眠，无论我们睡多久，通常都会分为一系列 90 分钟的周期，这些超电周期。

So early in the night, these 90-minute cycles tend to be comprised more of shallow sleep and slow wave sleep.

因此，在晚上早些时候，这些 90 分钟的周期往往更多地由浅睡眠和慢波睡眠组成。

And we tend to have less so-called REM sleep, R-E-M sleep, which stands for Rapid Eye Movement sleep.

而且我们的所谓快速眼动睡眠（R-E-M 睡眠）（即快速眼动睡眠）往往较少。

For every 90-minute cycle that we have during a night of sleep, we tend to start having more and more REM sleep.

每晚睡眠期间每有一个 90 分钟的周期，我们就会开始有越来越多的快速眼动睡眠。

So more of that 90-minute cycle is comprised of REM sleep and less of slow wave sleep.

因此，90 分钟的周期中有更多的时间是快速眼动睡眠，而慢波睡眠则较少。

Now, this is true regardless of whether or not you wake up in the middle of the night to use the restroom or your sleep is broken.

现在，无论您是否半夜起床去洗手间或睡眠是否中断，这都是事实。

The more sleep you're getting across the night, the more REM sleep you're going to have.

您整晚的睡眠越多，快速眼动睡眠就越多。

And REM sleep and non-REM, as I'll refer to it, have distinctly different roles in learning and unlearning.

正如我所提到的，快速眼动睡眠和非快速眼动睡眠在学习和忘却方面有着截然不同的作用。

And they are responsible for learning and unlearning of distinctly different types of information.

他们负责学习和忘却截然不同类型的信息。

And this has enormous implications for learning of motor skills, for unlearning of traumatic events, or for processing emotionally challenging as well as emotionally pleasing events.

这对于学习运动技能、忘记创伤事件或处理情绪上具有挑战性和情绪上愉悦的事件具有巨大的影响。

And as we'll see, one can actually leverage their daytime activities in order to access more slow wave sleep or non-REM sleep, as we'll call it, or more REM sleep, depending on your particular emotional and physical needs.

正如我们将看到的，人们实际上可以利用白天的活动来获得更多的慢波睡眠或非快速眼动睡眠（我们称之为非快速眼动睡眠），或者更多的快速眼动睡眠，具体取决于您特定的情感和身体需求。

So it's really a remarkable stage of life that we have a lot more control and power over than you might believe.

所以这确实是人生的一个非凡阶段，我们拥有比你想象的更多的控制权和权力。

So let's start by talking about slow wave sleep or non-REM sleep.

让我们首先讨论慢波睡眠或非快速眼动睡眠。

So slow wave sleep is characterized by a particular pattern of brain activity in which the brain is metabolically active but that there's these big sweeping waves of activity that include a lot of the brain.

因此，慢波睡眠的特点是一种特殊的大脑活动模式，其中大脑的新陈代谢活跃，但这些大范围的活动波包括大脑的大部分区域。

Now, the interesting thing about slow wave sleep are the neuromodulators that tend to be associated with it, that are most active and least active during slow wave sleep.

现在，关于慢波睡眠的有趣之处在于往往与之相关的神经调节剂，它们在慢波睡眠期间最活跃和最不活跃。

And here's why.

原因如下。

To remind you, neuromodulators are these chemicals that act rather slowly.

提醒您一下，神经调节剂是这些作用相当缓慢的化学物质。

But their main role is to bias particular brain circuits to be active and other brain circuits to not be active.

但它们的主要作用是偏向特定的大脑回路，使之活跃，而使其他大脑回路不活跃。

And they are associated as a consequence with certain brain functions.

因此它们与某些大脑功能相关。

So we know, for instance, and just to review, acetylcholine in waking states is a neuromodulator that tends to amplify the activity of brain circuits associated with focus and attention.

例如，我们知道，清醒状态下的乙酰胆碱是一种神经调节剂，它往往会增强与注意力相关的大脑回路的活动。

Norepinephrine is a neuromodulator that tends to amplify the brain circuits associated with alertness and the desire to move.

去甲肾上腺素是一种神经调节剂，可以增强与警觉性和运动欲望相关的大脑回路。

Serotonin is the neuromodulator that's released and tends to amplify the circuits in the brain and body that are associated with bliss and a desire to remain still.

血清素是一种神经调节剂，它被释放并倾向于放大大脑和身体中与幸福和保持静止的愿望相关的回路。

And dopamine is the neuromodulator that's released and is associated with amplification of the neural circuits in the brain and body associated with pursuing goals and pleasure and reward.

多巴胺是一种神经调节剂，它被释放，与大脑和身体神经回路的放大有关，这些神经回路与追求目标、快乐和奖励有关。

So in slow wave sleep, something really interesting happens.

所以在慢波睡眠中，一些非常有趣的事情发生了。

There's essentially no acetylcholine.

基本上没有乙酰胆碱。

And acetylcholine, as I just mentioned, is associated with focus.

正如我刚才提到的，乙酰胆碱与注意力有关。

So you can think of slow wave sleep as these big, sweeping waves of activity through the brain and a kind of distortion of space and time so that we're not really focusing on any one thing.

所以你可以把慢波睡眠想象成大脑中这些大的、扫过的活动波，以及一种空间和时间的扭曲，这样我们就不会真正专注于任何一件事。

Now, the other molecules that are very active at that time are norepinephrine, which is a little bit surprising.

现在，当时非常活跃的其他分子是去甲肾上腺素，这有点令人惊讶。

Because normally, in waking states, norepinephrine is going to be associated with a lot of alertness and the desire to move.

因为通常情况下，在清醒状态下，去甲肾上腺素会导致高度警觉和运动的欲望。

But there's not a ton of norepinephrine around in slow wave sleep.

但慢波睡眠中并没有大量的去甲肾上腺素。

But it is around.

但它就在身边。

So there's something associated with the movement circuitry going on in slow wave sleep.

因此，慢波睡眠中发生的运动电路与某些因素有关。

And remember, this is happening mostly at the beginning of the night.

请记住，这种情况大多发生在深夜开始时。

Your sleep is dominated by slow wave sleep.

您的睡眠以慢波睡眠为主。

So no acetylcholine, very little norepinephrine, although there is some, and a lot of serotonin.

所以没有乙酰胆碱，很少有去甲肾上腺素，尽管有一些，还有大量的血清素。

And serotonin, again, is associated with this desire, this sensation of bliss or well-being but not a lot of movement.

血清素又与这种欲望、这种幸福或幸福的感觉有关，但与大量运动无关。

And during sleep, you tend not to move.

在睡眠期间，您往往不会移动。

Now, in slow wave sleep, you can move.

现在，在慢波睡眠中，您可以活动了。

You're not paralyzed.

你没有瘫痪。

So you can roll over.

这样你就可以翻身了。

If people are going to sleepwalk, typically it's going to be during slow wave sleep.

如果人们要梦游，通常是在慢波睡眠期间。

And what studies have shown through some kind of sadistic experiments, where people are deprived specifically of slow wave sleep-- and that can be done by waking them up as soon as the electrode recordings show that they're in slow wave sleep or by chemically altering their sleep so that it biases them away from slow wave sleep.

研究通过某种虐待实验表明，人们被特别剥夺了慢波睡眠——这可以通过在电极记录显示他们处于慢波睡眠时立即叫醒他们来实现，或者通过化学方法改变​​他们的睡眠，使他们偏离慢波睡眠。

What studies have shown is that motor learning is generally occurring in slow wave sleep.

研究表明，运动学习通常发生在慢波睡眠中。

So let's say the day before you go to sleep, you were learning some new dance move or you were learning some specific motor skill, either a fine motor skill or a coarse motor skill.

假设在您睡觉前一天，您正在学习一些新的舞蹈动作，或者您正在学习一些特定的运动技能，无论是精细运动技能还是粗略运动技能。

Learning of those skills is happening primarily during slow wave sleep, in the early part of the night.

这些技能的学习主要发生在深夜的慢波睡眠期间。

In addition, slow wave sleep has been shown to be important for the learning of detailed information.

此外，慢波睡眠已被证明对于学习详细信息很重要。

So we can think of slow wave sleep as important for motor learning, motor skill learning, and for the learning of specific details about specific events.

因此，我们可以认为慢波睡眠对于运动学习、运动技能学习以及特定事件的具体细节的学习很重要。

And this turns out to be fundamentally important because now we know that slow wave sleep is primarily in the early part of the night.

事实证明，这一点非常重要，因为现在我们知道慢波睡眠主要发生在夜晚的早些时候。

And motor learning is occurring primarily early in the night.

运动学习主要发生在深夜。

And detail learning is occurring early in the night.

细节学习是在深夜进行的。

I want to talk about REM sleep or Rapid Eye Movement sleep.

我想谈谈快速眼动睡眠或快速眼动睡眠。

REM sleep and Rapid Eye Movement sleep, as I mentioned before, occurs throughout the night.

正如我之前提到的，快速眼动睡眠和快速眼动睡眠发生在整个晚上。

But you're going to have more of it-- a larger percentage of these 90-minute sleep cycles is going to be comprised of REM sleep as you get toward morning.

但你会拥有更多——当你接近早晨时，这些 90 分钟的睡眠周期中很大一部分将由快速眼动睡眠组成。

REM sleep is fascinating.

快速眼动睡眠是令人着迷的。

It was discovered in the '50s when sleep laboratory in Chicago-- the researchers observed that people's eyes were moving under their eyelids.

上世纪 50 年代，芝加哥睡眠实验室的研究人员发现人们的眼睛在眼睑下移动。

Now, something very important that we're going to address when we talk about trauma later is that the eye movements are not just side to side.

现在，当我们稍后讨论创伤时，我们要解决的非常重要的事情是眼球运动不仅仅是左右移动。

They're very erratic in all different directions.

它们在各个不同方向上都非常不稳定。

One thing that I've never heard anyone really talk about publicly is why eye movements during sleep.

我从未听任何人真正公开谈论过一件事，那就是为什么眼睛在睡眠时会运动。

Eyes are closed.

眼睛是闭着的。

And sometimes, people's eyelids would be a little bit open.

有时，人们的眼皮会张开一点。

And their eyes are darting around, especially in little kids.

他们的眼睛四处乱转，尤其是小孩子。

I don't suggest you do this.

我不建议你这样做。

I'm not even sure it's ethical.

我什至不确定这是否道德。

But it has been done, where you pull back the eyelids of a kid while they're sleeping.

但这种事已经发生了，你可以在孩子睡觉的时候拉开他们的眼皮。

And their eyes are kind of darting all over the place.

他们的眼睛四处扫视。

Rapid eye movement sleep is fascinating and occurs because there are connections between the brainstem, an area called the pons, and areas of the thalamus and the top of the brainstem that are involved in generating movements in different directions, sometimes called saccades.

快速眼动睡眠之所以令人着迷，是因为脑干（称为脑桥的区域）与丘脑和脑干顶部的区域之间存在联系，这些区域参与产生不同方向的运动（有时称为眼跳）。

Although sometimes during rapid eye movement sleep, it's not just rapid.

虽然有时在快速眼动睡眠期间，但它不仅仅是快速。

It's kind of a jittery side to side thing.

这是一件令人紧张的事情。

And then the eyeballs kind of roll.

然后眼球就会转动。

It's really pretty creepy to look at if you see.

如果你看到的话，真的很令人毛骨悚然。

So what's happening there is the circuitry that is involved in conscious eye movements is kind of going haywire.

因此，涉及有意识眼球运动的电路有点失控了。

But it's not haywire.

但这并不是乱七八糟的。

It's these waves of activity from the brain stem up to the so-called thalamus, which is an area that filters sensory information and then up to the cortex.

这些活动波从脑干一直到所谓的丘脑，丘脑是过滤感觉信息的区域，然后一直到皮质。

And the cortex, of course, is involved in conscious perceptions.

当然，大脑皮层也参与有意识的感知。

In REM sleep, serotonin is essentially absent.

在快速眼动睡眠中，血清素基本上不存在。

So this molecule, this neuromodulator that tends to create the feeling of bliss and well-being and just calm placidity is absent.

因此，这种能够产生幸福感、幸福感和平静感的分子、神经调节剂是不存在的。

In addition to that, norepinephrine, this molecule that's involved in movement and alertness, is absolutely absent.

除此之外，去甲肾上腺素（这种与运动和警觉性有关的分子）绝对不存在。

It's probably one of the few times in our life that epinephrine is essentially at zero activity within our system.

这可能是我们一生中为数不多的肾上腺素在我们的系统内基本上处于零活性的情况之一。

And that has a number of very important implications for the sorts of dreaming that occur during REM sleep and the sorts of learning that can occur in REM sleep and unlearning.

这对于快速眼动睡眠期间发生的各种梦以及快速眼动睡眠期间可能发生的学习和忘却有着许多非常重要的影响。

First of all, in REM sleep, we are paralyzed.

首先，在快速眼动睡眠中，我们处于瘫痪状态。

We are experiencing what's called atonia, which just means that we're completely laid out and paralyzed.

我们正在经历所谓的缺乏活力，这意味着我们完全陷入瘫痪。

We also tend to experience whatever it is that we're dreaming about as a kind of hallucination or a hallucinatory activity.

我们也倾向于将我们梦到的任何事物视为一种幻觉或幻觉活动。

So in REM, our eyes are moving.

所以在快速眼动睡眠中，我们的眼睛在移动。

But the rest of our body is paralyzed.

但我们身体的其他部分却瘫痪了。

And we are hallucinating.

我们产生了幻觉。

There's no epinephrine around.

周围没有肾上腺素。

Epinephrine doesn't just create a desire to move and alertness.

肾上腺素不仅仅会产生运动欲望和警觉性。

It is also the chemical signature of fear and anxiety.

它也是恐惧和焦虑的化学特征。

It's what's released from our adrenal glands when we experience something that's fearful or alerting.

当我们经历可怕或警觉的事情时，肾上腺会释放出这种物质。

So if a car suddenly screeches in front of us or we get a troubling text message, adrenaline is deployed into our system.

因此，如果一辆汽车突然在我们面前发出尖叫声，或者我们收到一条令人不安的短信，肾上腺素就会被部署到我们的系统中。

Adrenaline is epinephrine.

肾上腺素就是肾上腺素。

Those are equivalent molecules.

这些是等效的分子。

And epinephrine isn't just released from our adrenals.

肾上腺素不仅仅从我们的肾上腺释放。

It's also released within our brain.

它也在我们的大脑中释放。

So there's this weird stage of our life that happens more toward morning that we call REM sleep, where we're hallucinating and having these outrageous experiences in our mind.

因此，我们生命中有一个奇怪的阶段，更多地发生在早上，我们称之为快速眼动睡眠，在这个阶段我们会产生幻觉，并在脑海中产生这些令人震惊的经历。

But the chemical that's associated with fear and panic and anxiety is not available to us.

但我们无法获得与恐惧、恐慌和焦虑相关的化学物质。

And that turns out to be very important.

事实证明这非常重要。

And you can imagine why that's important.

您可以想象为什么这很重要。

It's important because it allows us to experience things, both replay of things that did occur as well as elaborate contortions of things that didn't occur.

这很重要，因为它使我们能够体验事物，既可以重播已发生的事情，也可以对未发生的事情进行精心扭曲。

And it allows us to experience those in the absence of fear and anxiety.

它使我们能够在没有恐惧和焦虑的情况下体验这些。

So we have this incredible period of sleep in which our experience of emotionally laden events is dissociated.

因此，我们有一段令人难以置信的睡眠时期，在这段时期，我们对充满情绪的事件的体验是分离的。

It's chemically blocked from us having the actual emotion.

它在化学上阻止了我们拥有真正的情感。

So to just recap where we've gone so far, slow wave sleep early in the night has been shown to be important for motor learning and for detailed learning.

回顾一下我们到目前为止的进展，早晚的慢波睡眠已被证明对于运动学习和细节学习很重要。

REM sleep has a certain dream component in which there's no epinephrine.

快速眼动睡眠有一定的梦成分，其中不含肾上腺素。

Therefore, we can't experience anxiety.

因此，我们无法体验焦虑。

We are paralyzed.

我们瘫痪了。

Those dreams tend to be really vivid and have a lot of detail to them.

这些梦往往非常生动，并且有很多细节。

And yet, in REM sleep, what's very clear is that the sorts of learning that happen in REM sleep are not motor events.

然而，在快速眼动睡眠中，非常清楚的是，在快速眼动睡眠中发生的学习并不是运动事件。

It's more about unlearning of emotional events.

更多的是关于忘记情感事件。

And now, we know why.

现在，我们知道原因了。

Because the chemicals available for really feeling those emotions are not present.

因为真正能够感受这些情绪的化学物质并不存在。

Now, that has very important implications.

现在，这具有非常重要的意义。

So let's address those implications from two sides.

因此，让我们从两个方面来解决这些影响。

First of all, we should ask, what happens if we don't get enough REM sleep?

首先，我们应该问，如果我们没有获得足够的快速眼动睡眠会发生什么？

And a scenario that happens a lot where people don't get enough REM sleep is the following.

人们经常发生的快速眼动睡眠不足的情况如下。

I'll just explain the one that I'm familiar with because it happens to me a lot, although I've figured out ways to adjust.

我只会解释我熟悉的一个，因为这种情况经常发生在我身上，尽管我已经找到了调整的方法。

I go to sleep around 10:30, 11 o'clock.

我大约10点30分、11点睡觉。

I fall asleep very easily.

我很容易就睡着了。

And then I wake up around 3:00 or 4:00 AM.

然后我在凌晨 3:00 或 4:00 左右醒来。

I now know to use a NSDR, Non-Sleep Deep Rest protocol.

我现在知道使用 NSDR（非睡眠深度休息协议）。

And that allows me to fall back asleep.

这让我可以重新入睡。

Even though it's called non-sleep deep rest, it really allows me to relax my body and brain.

尽管它被称为非睡眠深度休息，但它确实可以让我的身体和大脑得到放松。

And I tend to fall back asleep and sleep till about 7:00 AM, during which time I get a lot of REM sleep.

我倾向于重新入睡，一直睡到早上 7:00 左右，在此期间我有大量的快速眼动睡眠。

And I know this because I've measured it.

我知道这一点是因为我已经测量过它。

And I know this because my dreams tend to be very intense of the sort that we know is typical of REM sleep.

我知道这一点是因为我的梦往往非常强烈，我们知道这是典型的快速眼动睡眠。

In this scenario, I've gotten my slow wave sleep early in the night.

在这种情况下，我很早就进入了慢波睡眠。

And I've got my REM sleep toward morning.

我的快速眼动睡眠已接近早晨。

However, there are times when I don't go back to sleep.

然而，有时我就再也睡不着了。

Maybe I have a flight to catch.

也许我要赶航班。

That's happened.

事情就这样发生了。

Sometimes, I've got a lot on my mind.

有时候，我心里有很多想法。

And I don't go back to sleep.

我不会回去睡觉。

I can tell you-- and you've probably experienced-- that the lack of REM sleep tends to make people emotionally irritable.

我可以告诉你——你可能已经经历过——缺乏快速眼动睡眠往往会让人情绪烦躁。

It tends to make us feel as if the little things are the big things.

它往往让我们觉得小事就是大事。

So it's very clear from laboratory studies where people have been deprived selectively of REM sleep that our emotionality tends to get a little bit unhinged.

因此，从实验室研究中可以清楚地看出，当人们被选择性地剥夺快速眼动睡眠时，我们的情绪往往会变得有点精神错乱。

And we tend to catastrophize small things.

我们往往把小事当作灾难。

We tend to feel like the world is really daunting.

我们往往会觉得这个世界真的令人畏惧。

We're never going to move forward in the ways that we want.

我们永远不会按照我们想要的方式前进。

We can't unlearn the emotional components of whatever it is that's been happening, even if it's not traumatic.

我们无法忘记所发生的事情的情感成分，即使它不是创伤性的。

The other thing that happens in REM sleep is a replay of certain types of spatial information about where we were and why we were in those places.

快速眼动睡眠中发生的另一件事是重播某些类型的空间信息，这些信息涉及我们在哪里以及为什么我们在这些地方。

And this maps to some beautiful data and studies that were initiated by a guy named Matt Wilson at MIT years ago showing that in rodents.

这与麻省理工学院一位名叫马特·威尔逊（Matt Wilson）的人几年前发起的一些漂亮的数据和研究相一致，这些数据和研究在啮齿类动物中表明了这一点。

And it turns out in non-human primates and in humans, there's a replay of spatial information during REM sleep that almost precisely maps to the activity that we experienced during the day as we move from one place to another.

事实证明，在非人类灵长类动物和人类中，快速眼动睡眠期间会重播空间信息，几乎精确地映射到我们白天从一个地方移动到另一个地方时所经历的活动。

So here's a common world scenario.

这是一个常见的世界场景。

You go to a new place.

你去一个新地方。

You navigate through that city or that environment.

您在那个城市或那个环境中导航。

This place doesn't have to be at the scale of a city.

这个地方不必达到城市的规模。

It can be a new building.

它可以是一座新建筑。

It could be a finding particular rooms, new social interaction.

这可能是寻找特定的房间、新的社交互动。

You experience that.

你经历过这一点。

And if it's important enough, that becomes solidified a few days later.

如果它足够重要，那么几天后就会变得更加牢固。

And you won't forget it.

你不会忘记它。

If it's unimportant, you'll probably forget it.

如果它不重要，你可能会忘记它。

During REM sleep, there's a literal replay of the exact firing of the neurons that occurred while you were navigating that same city or building earlier.

在快速眼动睡眠期间，您之前在同一座城市或建筑物中航行时发生的神经元放电会按字面意思重播。

So REM sleep seems to be involved in the generation of this detailed spatial information.

因此，快速眼动睡眠似乎参与了这种详细空间信息的生成。

But what is it that's actually happening in REM sleep?

但快速眼动睡眠中到底发生了什么？

So there's this uncoupling of emotion.

所以就有了这种情感的分离。

But most of all, what's happening in REM sleep is that we're forming a relationship with particular rules or algorithms.

但最重要的是，快速眼动睡眠中发生的事情是我们正在与特定的规则或算法形成一种关系。

We're starting to figure out, based on all the experience that we had during the day, whether or not it's important that we avoid certain people or that we approach certain people, whether or not it's important that, when we enter a building, that we go into the elevator and turn left where the bathroom is, for instance-- these general themes of things and locations and how they fit together.

根据我们白天的所有经历，我们开始弄清楚，我们避开某些人或接近某些人是否重要，例如，当我们进入建筑物时，我们进入电梯并在浴室所在的地方左转是否重要 - 这些事物和地点的一般主题以及它们如何组合在一起。

And that has a word.

还有一句话。

It's called meaning.

这就是所谓的意义。

During our day, we're experiencing all sorts of things.

在我们的日子里，我们正在经历各种各样的事情。

Meaning is how we each individually piece together the relevance of one thing to the next.

意义是我们每个人如何将一件事与另一件事的相关性拼凑起来。

So if I suddenly told you that this pen was downloading all the information to my brain that was important to deliver this information, you'd probably think I was a pretty strange character because typically we don't think of pens as downloading information into brains.

因此，如果我突然告诉你这支笔正在将所有信息下载到我的大脑中，这对于传递这些信息很重要，你可能会认为我是一个非常奇怪的角色，因为通常我们不认为笔会将信息下载到大脑中。

But if I told you that I was getting information from my computer that was allowing me to say things to you, you'd say, well, that's perfectly reasonable.

但如果我告诉你我正在从我的计算机获取信息，这些信息允许我对你说话，你会说，嗯，这是完全合理的。

And that's because we have a clear and agreed upon association with computers and information and memory.

那是因为我们与计算机、信息和记忆有着明确且一致的联系。

And we don't have that same association with pens.

我们与钢笔没有同样的联系。

You might say, well, duh.

你可能会说，好吧，呃。

But something in our brain needs to solidify those relationships and make sure that the certain relationships don't exist.

但我们大脑中的某些东西需要巩固这些关系并确保某些关系不存在。

And it appears that REM sleep is important for that.

看来快速眼动睡眠对此很重要。

Because when you deprive yourself or people of REM, they start seeing odd associations.

因为当你剥夺自己或人们的快速眼动睡眠时，他们就会开始看到奇怪的联想。

And we know that if people are deprived of REM sleep for very long periods of time, they start hallucinating.

我们知道，如果人们长时间被剥夺快速眼动睡眠，他们就会开始产生幻觉。

They literally start seeing relationships and movement of objects that isn't happening.

他们确实开始看到未发生的物体之间的关系和运动。

And so REM sleep is really where we establish the emotional load but where we also start discarding of all the meanings that are irrelevant.

因此，快速眼动睡眠实际上是我们建立情绪负荷的地方，但我们也开始丢弃所有不相关的含义。

And if you think about emotionality, a lot of overemotionality or catastrophizing is about seeing problems everywhere.

如果你考虑一下情绪化，就会发现很多过度情绪化或灾难化都是因为到处都看到问题。

It's very important in order to have healthy emotional and cognitive functioning that we have fairly narrow channels between individual things.

为了拥有健康的情感和认知功能，我们在个体事物之间拥有相当狭窄的通道是非常重要的。

If we see something on the news that's very troubling, well, then it makes sense to be very troubled.

如果我们在新闻中看到一些非常令人不安的事情，那么我们感到非常不安也是有道理的。

But if we're troubled by everything and we start just saying, everything is bothering me and I'm feeling highly irritable and everything is just distorting and troubling me, chances are we are not actively removing the meaning, the connectivity between life experiences as well as we could.

但如果我们被一切事情困扰，我们开始只是说，一切都困扰着我，我感到非常烦躁，一切都在扭曲和困扰我，那么我们很可能没有尽可能积极地消除生活经历之间的意义和联系。

And that almost always maps back to a deficit in REM sleep.

这几乎总是与快速眼动睡眠不足有关。

So REM sleep seems to be where we uncouple the potential for emotionality between various experiences.

因此，快速眼动睡眠似乎是我们解开各种经历之间情绪潜力的地方。

And that brings us to the absolutely fundamental relationship and similarity of REM sleep to some of the clinical practices that have been designed to eliminate emotionality and help people move through trauma and other troubling experiences.

这让我们认识到快速眼动睡眠与一些旨在消除情绪并帮助人们度过创伤和其他令人不安的经历的临床实践之间的绝对基本关系和相似性。

Many of you perhaps have heard of trauma treatments such as EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing, or ketamine treatment for trauma, something that recently became legal and is in fairly widespread clinical use.

你们中的许多人可能听说过创伤治疗，例如 EMDR、眼动脱敏再处理或氯胺酮治疗创伤，这些疗法最近变得合法并且在临床上相当广泛使用。

Interestingly enough, EMDR and ketamine at a core level bear very similar features to REM sleep.

有趣的是，EMDR 和氯胺酮在核心水平上与快速眼动睡眠具有非常相似的特征。

So let's talk about EMDR first.

那么我们先来谈谈EMDR。

EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing, is something that was developed by a psychologist, Francine Shapiro.

EMDR（眼动脱敏再处理）是由心理学家弗朗辛·夏皮罗（Francine Shapiro）开发的。

She actually was in Palo Alto.

她实际上在帕洛阿尔托。

And the story goes that she was walking not so incidentally in the trees and forests behind Stanford.

据说，她在斯坦福大学后面的树林和森林中行走并非偶然。

And she was recalling a troubling event in her own mind.

她的脑海里回想起一件令人不安的事情。

So this would be from her own life.

所以这来自她自己的生活。

And she realized that as she was walking, the emotional load of that experience was not as intense or severe.

她意识到，当她走路时，那种经历的情感负担并不那么强烈或严重。

She extrapolated from that experience of walking and not feeling as stressed about the stressful event to a practice that she put into work with her clients, with her patients, and that now has become fairly widespread.

她从步行的经历中推断出，她对压力事件没有感到那么紧张，并将其应用于她的客户和患者的工作中，现在这种做法已经变得相当普遍。

It's actually one of the few behaviorally-- the behavior treatments that are approved by the American Psychological Association for the treatment of trauma.

它实际上是美国心理协会批准用于治疗创伤的少数行为疗法之一。

What she had her clients and patients do was move their eyes from side to side while recounting some traumatic or troubling event.

她让她的客户和病人在讲述一些创伤性或令人不安的事件时，将他们的眼睛从一边移到另一边。

Why eye movements?

为什么眼球运动？

Well, she never really said why eye movements.

好吧，她从来没有真正说过为什么眼球运动。

But soon, I'll tell you why the decision to select these lateralized eye movements for the work in the clinic was the right one.

但很快，我就会告诉你为什么选择这些偏侧眼球运动来进行临床工作的决定是正确的。

So these eye movements, they look silly.

所以这些眼球运动看起来很傻。

But they basically involve sitting in a chair and moving one's eyes from side to side for 30 to 60 seconds, then describing this challenging procedure.

但它们基本上涉及坐在椅子上，将眼睛从一侧移动到另一侧 30 到 60 秒，然后描述这个具有挑战性的过程。

Now, as a vision scientist who also works on stress, when I first heard this, I thought it was crazy, frankly.

现在，作为一名也从事压力研究的视觉科学家，当我第一次听到这个时，坦率地说，我认为这很疯狂。

People would ask me about EMDR.

人们会问我关于 EMDR 的事。

And I just thought, that's crazy.

我只是想，这太疯狂了。

I went and looked up some of the theories about why EMDR might work.

我查阅了一些关于 EMDR 为何有效的理论。

And there were a bunch of theories.

还有很多理论。

Oh, it mimics the eye movements during REM sleep.

哦，它模仿快速眼动睡眠期间的眼球运动。

That was one.

那是一个。

It turns out that's not true.

事实证明这不是真的。

And I'll explain why.

我会解释原因。

The other one was, oh, it synchronizes the activity on the two sides of the brain.

另一个是，哦，它使大脑两侧的活动同步。

Well, sort of.

嗯，有点像。

I mean, when you look into both sides of the binocular visual field, you activate the visual cortex.

我的意思是，当你观察双眼视野的两侧时，你会激活视觉皮层。

But this whole idea of synchrony between the two sides of the brain is something that I think modern neuroscience is starting to, let's just say, gently or not so gently move away from this whole right brain, left brain business.

但我认为现代神经科学正在开始，轻轻地或不那么轻轻地远离整个右脑、左脑的事务，这整个大脑两侧同步的想法。

It turns out, however, that eye movements of the sort that I just did and that Francine Shapiro took from this walk experience and brought to her clients in the clinic are the sorts of eye movements that you generate whenever you're moving through space, when you are self-generating that movement.

然而，事实证明，我刚才所做的那种眼球运动，以及弗朗辛·夏皮罗从这次步行经历中获得并带给她在诊所的客户的眼球运动，就是当你在空间中移动时，当你自我产生这种运动时，你产生的那种眼球运动。

So not so much when you're driving a car.

所以当你开车的时候就不那么重要了。

But certainly, if you are riding a bicycle or you were walking or you were running, you don't realize it.

但当然，如果你骑自行车、步行或跑步，你不会意识到这一点。

But you have these reflexive subconscious eye movements that go from side to side.

但是你有这些反射性的潜意识眼球运动，从一侧到另一侧。

And they are associated with the motor system.

它们与运动系统相关。

So when you move forward, your eyes go like this.

所以当你向前走的时候，你的眼睛是这样的。

There have been a number of studies showing that these lateralized eye movements helped people move through or dissociate the emotional experience of particular traumas with those experiences such that they could recall those experiences after the treatment and not feel stressed about them.

有许多研究表明，这些偏侧眼球运动可以帮助人们经历特定创伤的情绪体验或将这些经历与这些经历分离，这样他们就可以在治疗后回忆起这些经历，而不会对它们感到压力。

Or they didn't report them as traumatic any longer.

或者他们不再将其报告为创伤性的。

Now, the success rate wasn't 100%.

现在看来，成功率并不是100%。

But they were statistically significant in a number of studies.

但在许多研究中它们具有统计学意义。

In the last five years, there have been no fewer than five journals and papers showing that lateralized eye movements of the sort that I just did-- and if you're just listening to this, it's just moving the eyes from side to side with eyes open-- that those eye movements, but not vertical eye movements, suppress the activity of the amygdala, which is this brain region that is involved in threat detection, stress, anxiety, and fear.

在过去的五年里，有不少于五篇期刊和论文表明，我刚才所做的那种侧向眼球运动——如果你只是听这个，它只是在睁着眼睛的情况下从一侧移动到另一侧——这些眼球运动，而不是垂直眼球运动，抑制了杏仁核的活动，杏仁核是一个涉及威胁检测、压力、焦虑和恐惧的大脑区域。

There are some forms of fear that are not amygdala dependent.

有些形式的恐惧并不依赖于杏仁核。

But the amygdala, it's not a fear center.

但杏仁核，它不是恐惧中心。

But it is critical for the fear response and for the experience of anxiety.

但这对于恐惧反应和焦虑体验至关重要。

So that's interesting.

这很有趣。

We've got a clinical tool now that indeed shows a lot of success in a good number of people, where eye movements from side to side are suppressing the amygdala.

我们现在有了一种临床工具，确实在很多人身上取得了很大的成功，眼球从一侧到另一侧的运动会抑制杏仁核。

And the general theme is to use those eye movements to suppress the fear response and then to recount or repeat the experience and over time uncouple the heavy emotional load-- the sadness, the depression, the anxiety, the fear-- from whatever it was that happened that was traumatic.

总的主题是利用这些眼球运动来抑制恐惧反应，然后重新叙述或重复这段经历，并随着时间的推移，将沉重的情绪负担——悲伤、抑郁、焦虑、恐惧——与发生的创伤性事件分开。

This is important to understand because I'd love to be able to tell somebody who had a traumatic experience that they would forget that experience.

理解这一点很重要，因为我很想告诉那些有过创伤经历的人，他们会忘记这段经历。

But the truth is, you never forget the traumatic experience.

但事实是，你永远不会忘记痛苦的经历。

What you do is you remove the emotional load.

你所做的就是消除情绪负担。

Eventually, it really does lose its potency.

最终，它确实失去了效力。

The emotional potency is alleviated.

情绪强度减弱。

Now, EMDR, I should just mention, tends to be most successful for single event or very specific kinds of trauma that happen over and over as opposed to, say, an entire childhood or an entire divorce.

现在，我想提一下，EMDR 对于单一事件或反复发生的非常特定类型的创伤往往最成功，而不是整个童年或整个离婚。

It tends to be most effective for single event kinds of things-- car crashes, et cetera-- where people can really recall the events in quite a lot of detail.

它对于单一事件类型的事情（车祸等）往往最有效，人们可以真正回忆起事件的很多细节。

It's not for everybody.

它并不适合所有人。

It's going to be done for trauma.

这是为了治疗外伤而做的。

It should be done in a clinical setting with somebody who's certified to do this.

它应该在临床环境中由经过认证的人员进行。

But that bears a lot of resemblance to REM sleep, this experience in our sleep where our eyes are moving, although in a different way.

但这与快速眼动睡眠有很多相似之处，即我们睡眠中眼睛移动的体验，尽管方式不同。

But we don't have the chemical epinephrine in order to generate the fear response.

但我们没有化学肾上腺素来产生恐惧反应。

And yet, we're remembering the event from the previous day or days.

然而，我们仍然记得前一天或前几天的事件。

And then now, there's this chemical treatment with the drug ketamine, which also bears a lot of resemblance to the sorts of things that happen in REM sleep.

现在，有一种用氯胺酮药物进行的化学治疗，它也与快速眼动睡眠中发生的事情有很多相似之处。

Ketamine is a dissociative anesthetic.

氯胺酮是一种解离麻醉剂。

It is remarkably similar to the drug called PCP, which is certainly a hazardous drug for people to use.

它与称为五氯苯酚的药物非常相似，五氯苯酚对人们来说无疑是一种危险药物。

Ketamine and PCP both function to disrupt the activity of a particular receptor in the brain called the NMDA receptor N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor.

氯胺酮和五氯苯酚都会破坏大脑中一种称为 NMDA 受体 N-甲基-D-天冬氨酸受体的特定受体的活性。

This is a receptor that's in the surface of neurons or on the surface of neurons for which most of the time it's not active.

这是一种位于神经元表面或大多数时间不活跃的神经元表面的受体。

But when something very extreme happens and there's a lot of activity in the neural pathway that impinges on that receptor, it opens.

但是，当发生非常极端的事情并且神经通路中有大量活动影响该受体时，它就会打开。

And it allows the entry of molecules, ions that trigger a cellular process that we call long-term potentiation.

它允许分子、离子进入，从而触发我们称之为长期增强的细胞过程。

And long-term potentiation translates to a change in connectivity so that later, you don't need that intense event for the neuron to become active again.

长时程增强会转化为连接性的变化，这样以后，你就不需要那种强烈的事件来让神经元再次变得活跃。

Ketamine blocks this NMDA receptor.

氯胺酮会阻断这种 NMDA 受体。

So how is ketamine being used?

那么氯胺酮是如何使用的呢？

Ketamine is being used to prevent learning of emotions very soon after trauma.

氯胺酮被用来防止创伤后很快学习情绪。

Ketamine is being stocked in a number of different emergency rooms, where if people are brought in quickly-- and these are hard to describe even-- but a horrible experience of somebody seeing a loved one next to them killed in a car accident and they were driving that car.

氯胺酮被储存在许多不同的急诊室中，如果人们被迅速带进来——这些甚至都很难描述——但如果有人看到旁边的亲人在一场车祸中丧生，而他们正在驾驶那辆车，这是一种可怕的经历。

This isn't for everybody, certainly.

当然，这并不适合所有人。

And you need to talk to your physician.

您需要与您的医生交谈。

But ketamine is being used.

但正在使用氯胺酮。

So they might infuse somebody with ketamine so that their emotion is-- it can still occur but that the plasticity, the change in the wiring of their brain won't allow that intense emotion to be attached to the experience.

因此，他们可能会给某人注射氯胺酮，这样他们的情绪仍然可以发生，但可塑性和大脑线路的变化不会让这种强烈的情绪附加到体验中。

Now, immediately, you can imagine the ethical implications of this because certain emotions need to be coupled to experiences.

现在，您可以立即想象这的伦理含义，因为某些情绪需要与体验结合起来。

But in the clinical setting, the basis of ketamine-assisted therapies are really to remove emotion.

但在临床环境中，氯胺酮辅助治疗的基础实际上是消除情绪。

Ketamine is about becoming dissociative or removed from the emotional component of experience.

氯胺酮是一种解离或脱离体验的情感成分。

So now, we have ketamine, which chemically blocks plasticity and prevents the connection between an emotion and an experience.

所以现在，我们有了氯胺酮，它可以通过化学方式阻止可塑性并阻止情感和体验之间的联系。

That's a pharmacologic intervention.

这是一种药物干预。

We have EMDR, which is this eye movement thing that is designed to suppress the amygdala and is designed to remove emotionality while somebody recounts an experience.

我们有 EMDR，这是一种眼球运动的东西，旨在抑制杏仁核，旨在消除某人在讲述经历时的情绪。

And we have REM sleep, where the chemical epinephrine that allows for signaling of intense emotion and the experience of intense emotion in the brain and body is not allowed.

我们有快速眼动睡眠，在这种睡眠中，允许发出强烈情绪信号的化学肾上腺素以及大脑和身体中强烈情绪体验的化学物质肾上腺素是不允许的。

And so we're starting to see an organizational logic, which is that a certain component of our sleeping life is acting like therapy.

因此，我们开始看到一种组织逻辑，即我们睡眠生活的某些组成部分就像治疗一样。

And that's really what REM sleep is about.

这就是快速眼动睡眠的真正含义。

So we should really think about REM sleep and slow wave sleep as both critical-- slow wave sleep for motor learning and detailed learning, REM sleep for attaching of emotions to particular experiences, and then for making sure that the emotions are not attached to the wrong experiences and for unlearning emotional responses if they're too intense or severe.

因此，我们真的应该将快速眼动睡眠和慢波睡眠视为至关重要的——慢波睡眠用于运动学习和细节学习，快速眼动睡眠用于将情绪与特定的经历联系起来，然后确保情绪不会与错误的经历联系起来，并在情绪反应过于强烈或严重时忘记情绪反应。

And this all speaks to the great importance of mastering one sleep, something that we talked about in episode two of the podcast, and making sure that if life has disruptive events, either due to travel or stress or changes in school or food schedules, something that we talked about in episodes three and four, that one can still grab a hold and manage one's sleep life because fundamentally the unlearning of emotions that are troubling to us is what allows us to move forward in life.

这一切都说明了掌握一次睡眠的重要性，我们在播客第二集中谈到了这一点，并确保如果生活中发生了破坏性事件，无论是由于旅行或压力，还是学校或食物时间表的变化，我们在第三集和第四集中谈到了这一点，人们仍然可以抓住并管理自己的睡眠生活，因为从根本上忘记困扰我们的情绪才能让我们在生活中前进。

And indeed, the REM deprivation study show that people become hyper emotional.

事实上，快速眼动睡眠剥夺研究表明，人们会变得极度情绪化。

They start to catastrophize.

他们开始陷入灾难。

And it's no surprise, therefore, that sleep disturbances correlate with so many emotional and psychological disturbances.

因此，睡眠障碍与许多情绪和心理障碍相关也就不足为奇了。

By now, it should just be obvious why that would be the case.

到现在为止，为什么会出现这种情况应该很明显了。

I was in a discussion with a colleague of mine who's down in Australia, Dr. Sarah McKay.

我正在与一位在澳大利亚的同事莎拉·麦凯博士进行讨论。

I've known her for two decades now from the time she was at Oxford.

从她在牛津大学开始，我就认识她二十年了。

And Sarah studies, among other things, menopause in the brain.

莎拉的研究领域包括大脑中的更年期。

And she was saying that a lot of the emotional effects of menopause actually are not directly related to the hormones.

她说更年期的许多情绪影响实际上与荷尔蒙没有直接关系。

There have been some really nice studies showing that the disruptions in temperature regulation in menopause mapped to changes in sleep regulation that then impact emotionality and an inability to correctly adjust the circuits related to emotionality.

有一些非常好的研究表明，更年期温度调节的破坏与睡眠调节的变化有关，从而影响情绪以及无法正确调整与情绪相关的回路。

So sleep deprivation isn't just deprivation of energy.

因此，睡眠不足不仅仅是缺乏能量。

It's not just deprivation of immune function.

这不仅仅是免疫功能的丧失。

It is deprivation of self-induced therapy every time we go to sleep.

每次我们入睡时，这都是一种自我诱导治疗的剥夺。

So these things like EMDR and ketamine therapies are in clinic therapies.

因此，像 EMDR 和氯胺酮疗法这样的疗法已经进入临床治疗。

But REM sleep is the one that you're giving yourself every night when you go to sleep, which raises, I think, the other important question, which is how to get and how to know if you're getting the appropriate amount of REM sleep and slow wave sleep.

但快速眼动睡眠是你每天晚上睡觉时给自己的睡眠，我认为这提出了另一个重要问题，即如何获得以及如何知道你是否获得了适量的快速眼动睡眠和慢波睡眠。

Turns out that for sake of learning new information, limiting the variation in the amount of your sleep is at least as important and perhaps more important than just getting more sleep overall.

事实证明，为了学习新信息，限制睡眠时间的变化至少与获得更多睡眠同样重要，甚至可能更重要。

I find great relief personally in the fact that consistently getting, for me, about 6 hours or 6 and 1/2 hours is going to be more beneficial than constantly striving for eight or nine and finding that some nights I'm getting five and sometimes I'm getting nine and varying around the mean.

我个人感到非常欣慰的是，对我来说，持续获得大约 6 小时或 6 又 1/2 小时比不断争取 8 或 9 小时更有益，因为我发现有些晚上我得到了 5 个小时，有时我得到了 9 个小时，并且在平均值附近变化。

Now, ideally, you're getting the full complement of slow wave sleep early and night and sleep toward morning, which is REM sleep, which brings us how to get more REM sleep.

现在，理想情况下，您可以在早晚和早上获得完整的慢波睡眠，即快速眼动睡眠，这为我们带来了如何获得更多的快速眼动睡眠。

Well, there are a couple of different ways.

嗯，有几种不同的方法。

But here's how to not get more REM sleep.

但以下是如何避免获得更多快速眼动睡眠的方法。

First of all, drink a lot of fluid right before going to sleep.

首先，在睡觉前喝大量液体。

One of the reasons why we wake up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom is because when our bladder is full, there is a neural connection, literally a set of neurons and a nerve circuit that goes to the brain stem that wakes us up.

我们半夜醒来上厕所的原因之一是，当我们的膀胱充满时，就会有一个神经连接，实际上是一组神经元和一个神经回路，连接到脑干，从而唤醒我们。

So having a full bladder is one way to disrupt your sleep.

因此，膀胱充盈是扰乱睡眠的一种方式。

The other one is tryptophan or anything that contains 5-HTP, which is serotonin or a precursor to serotonin.

另一种是色氨酸或任何含有 5-HTP 的物质，它是血清素或血清素的前体。

Serotonin is made from tryptophan.

血清素是由色氨酸制成的。

For some people, those supplements might work.

对于某些人来说，这些补充剂可能有效。

But beware, serotonin supplements could disrupt the timing of REM sleep and slow wave sleep.

但请注意，血清素补充剂可能会扰乱快速眼动睡眠和慢波睡眠的时间。

Now, if you want to increase your slow wave sleep, that's interesting.

现在，如果您想增加慢波睡眠，这很有趣。

There are ways to do that.

有一些方法可以做到这一点。

One of the most powerful ways to increase the percentage of slow wave sleep, apparently without any disruption to the other components of sleep and learning, is to engage in resistance exercise.

增加慢波睡眠百分比的最有效方法之一是进行抗阻运动，这显然不会干扰睡眠和学习的其他组成部分。

It's pretty clear that resistance exercise triggers a number of metabolic and endocrine pathways that lend themselves to release of growth hormone, which happens early in the night.

很明显，抗阻运动会触发许多代谢和内分泌途径，从而释放生长激素，这种情况会在深夜发生。

And resistance exercise therefore can induce a greater percentage of slow wave sleep.

因此，抗阻运动可以诱导更大比例的慢波睡眠。

It doesn't have to be done very close to going to bedtime.

不必在非常接近睡觉时间时进行。

In fact, for some people, the exercise could be disruptive for reasons I've talked about in previous episodes.

事实上，对于某些人来说，由于我在前几集中谈到的原因，这种练习可能会造成破坏。

But resistance exercise, unlike aerobic exercise, does seem to increase the amount of slow wave sleep, which, as we know, is involved in motor learning and the acquisition of fine detailed information, not general rules or the emotional components of experiences.

但与有氧运动不同，抗阻运动似乎确实增加了慢波睡眠的时间，正如我们所知，慢波睡眠涉及运动学习和精细信息的获取，而不是一般规则或经验的情感成分。

Alcohol-- alcohol and marijuana are well known to induce states that are pseudo sleep-like, especially when people fall asleep after having consumed alcohol or THC, one of the active components in marijuana.

酒精——众所周知，酒精和大麻会导致类似睡眠的状态，尤其是当人们在饮用酒精或大麻中的活性成分之一四氢大麻酚（THC）后入睡时。

Alcohol, THC, and most things like them, meaning things that increase serotonin or GABA, are going to disrupt the pattern of sleep.

酒精、四氢大麻酚和大多数类似的物质，即增加血清素或伽马氨基丁酸的物质，都会扰乱睡眠模式。

They're going to disrupt the depth.

他们会破坏深度。

They're going to disrupt the overall sequencing of more slow wave sleep early in the night and more REM sleep later in the night.

它们将扰乱夜间较早进行更多慢波睡眠和晚间进行更多快速眼动睡眠的整体顺序。

That's just the reality.

这就是现实。

Now, of course, if that's what you need in order to sleep and that's within your protocol-- as I've said here before, I'm not suggesting people take anything.

当然，如果这是你睡觉所需要的，并且在你的方案之内——正如我之前所说，我并不是建议人们服用任何东西。

I'm not a medical doctor.

我不是医生。

I'm not a cop.

我不是警察。

So I'm not trying to regulate anyone's behavior.

所以我并不是想规范任何人的行为。

I'm just telling you what the literature says.

我只是告诉你文献所说的。

Today, we've been in a deep dive of sleep and dreaming, learning and unlearning.

今天，我们深入探讨了睡眠和梦境、学习和忘却。

And I just want to recap a few of the highlights and important points.

我只想回顾一下其中的一些亮点和要点。

A lot more slow wave sleep and less REM early in the night.

晚间的慢波睡眠较多，快速眼动睡眠较少。

More REM and less slow wave sleep later in the night.

晚上晚些时候更多的快速眼动睡眠和更少的慢波睡眠。

REM sleep is associated with intense experiences without this chemical epinephrine that allows us the anxiety or fear and almost certainly has an important role in uncoupling of emotion from experiences, kind of self-induced therapy that we go into each night.

快速眼动睡眠与没有这种化学肾上腺素的强烈体验相关，这种化学肾上腺素会让我们感到焦虑或恐惧，而且几乎可以肯定，它在将情绪与经历脱钩方面发挥着重要作用，这是我们每天晚上进行的一种自我诱导疗法。

That bears striking resemblance to things like EMDR and ketamine therapies and so forth.

这与 EMDR 和氯胺酮疗法等惊人相似。

Slow wave sleep is critical, however.

然而，慢波睡眠至关重要。

It's critical mostly for motor learning and the learning of specific details.

这对于运动学习和具体细节的学习至关重要。

So REM is kind of emotions and general themes and meaning.

所以快速眼动是一种情绪、一般的主题和意义。

And slow wave sleep-- motor learning and details.

还有慢波睡眠——运动学习和细节。

I personally find it fascinating that consistency of sleep, meaning getting six hours every night is better than getting 10 one night, eight the next, five the next, four the next.

我个人觉得睡眠的一致性很有趣，这意味着每晚睡 6 小时比一晚睡 10 小时、下一晚睡 8 小时、再睡 5 小时、再睡 4 小时要好。

I find that fascinating.

我觉得这很有趣。

And I think I also like it because it's something I can control better than just trying to sleep more, which I think I'm not alone in agreeing that that's just hard for a lot of people to do.

我想我也喜欢它，因为这是我可以更好地控制的事情，而不仅仅是试图多睡，我想我并不是唯一一个同意这对很多人来说很难做到的人。

Thank you for joining me in this journey of the nervous system and biology and trying to understand the mechanisms that make us who we are and how we function in sleep and in wakefulness.

感谢您与我一起踏上神经系统和生物学的旅程，并尝试了解造就我们的机制以及我们在睡眠和清醒时如何运作。

It's really an incredible landscape to consider.

这确实是一个令人难以置信的景观。

And I hope that you're getting a lot out of the information.

我希望您能从这些信息中获得很多收获。

As always, thank you for your interest in science.

一如既往，感谢您对科学的兴趣。