Essentials: Science of Stress, Testosterone, Aggression & Motivation | Dr. Robert Sapolsky
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
Today, I have the pleasure of introducing Dr. Robert Sapolsky.
今天，我很高兴向大家介绍罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士。
Thank you so much, Robert, for joining us today.
罗伯特，非常感谢您今天加入我们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, yes.
嗯，是的。
Glad to be here.
很高兴来到这里。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
I want to return to a topic that is near and dear to your heart, which is stress.
我想回到你最关心的话题，那就是压力。
What is the difference between short and long-term stress in terms of their benefits and their drawback?
短期压力和长期压力的利弊有何区别？
How should we conceptualize stress?
我们应该如何理解压力？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Basically, two graphs that one would draw.
基本上，就是画两张图。
The first one is just all sorts of beneficial effects of stress short-term, and then once we get into chronicity, it's just downhill from there.
第一个是短期压力的各种有益影响，然后一旦我们进入长期状态，它就会从那里开始走下坡路。
The sorts of chronic stressors that most people deal with are just undeniably in the chronic range, like having spent the last 20 years, daily traffic jams or abusive boss or some such thing.
无可否认，大多数人面临的慢性压力源都属于慢性压力源，比如过去 20 年的经历、每天的交通堵塞、老板的虐待等等。
The other curve that's sort of perpendicular to this is dealing with the fact that sometimes stress is a great thing.
另一条与此垂直的曲线涉及这样一个事实：有时压力是一件好事。
Our goal is not to cure people of stress, because if it's the right kind, we love it.
我们的目标不是治愈人们的压力，因为如果是正确的类型，我们就会喜欢它。
We pay good money to be stressed that way by a scary movie or roller coaster ride.
我们花很多钱就是为了通过看恐怖电影或坐过山车来承受这种压力。
What you wind up seeing is when it's the right amount of stress, it's what we call stimulation.
你最终会看到，当压力适当时，这就是我们所说的刺激。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
One thing that's really striking to me is how, physiologically, the stress response looks so much like the excitement response to a positive event.
令我印象深刻的一件事是，从生理角度来看，压力反应与对积极事件的兴奋反应非常相似。
But is there anything else that we know about the biology that reveals to us what really creates this thing we call valence, that an experience can be terrible or feel awful, or it can feel wonderful depending on this somewhat subjective feature we call valence?
但是我们对生物学还有什么了解，可以向我们揭示什么真正创造了我们称之为效价的东西，一种体验可以是可怕的或感觉糟糕的，或者它可以感觉美妙，这取决于我们称之为效价的有点主观的特征？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
On a really mechanical level, if you're in a circumstance that is requiring that your heart races and your breathing is fast and you're using your muscles and some such thing, you're going to be having roughly the same brain activation profile, whether this is for something wonderful or something terrible, with the one exception being that if the amygdala is part of the activation, this is something that's going to be counting as adverse.
在真正的机械层面上，如果你处于一种需要心跳加速、呼吸快速的情况下，并且你正在使用你的肌肉和类似的东西，那么你将拥有大致相同的大脑激活曲线，无论这是为了美好的事情还是为了可怕的事情，唯一的例外是，如果杏仁核是激活的一部分，那么这将被视为不利的。
The amygdala, in some ways, is the checkpoint as to whether we're talking about excitement or terror.
在某些方面，杏仁核是我们谈论兴奋还是恐惧的检查站。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
Let's use the amygdala as a transition point to another topic that you've spent many years working on and thinking about, which is testosterone and other sex steroid hormones.
让我们以杏仁核为过渡点，转到您多年来研究和思考的另一个主题，即睾酮和其他性类固醇激素。
How should we think about the role of testosterone in the amygdala, given that the engagement of the amygdala is fundamental in this transition point between a exhilarating positive response and a negative, stressful response?
鉴于杏仁核的参与对于令人兴奋的积极反应和消极、有压力的反应之间的过渡点至关重要，我们应该如何看待睾酮在杏仁核中的作用？
Or maybe just broadly, how should we think about testosterone and its effects on the brain?
或者从广义上讲，我们应该如何看待睾酮及其对大脑的影响？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Basically, almost everybody out there has a completely wrong idea as to what testosterone does, which is testosterone makes you aggressive because males in virtually every species out there have more testosterone and are more aggressive.
基本上，几乎每个人对于睾酮的作用都有一个完全错误的想法，即睾酮使你具有攻击性，因为几乎每个物种的雄性都有更多的睾酮并且更具攻击性。
And the reality is testosterone does no such thing.
而现实是睾丸激素并没有这样的作用。
It doesn't cause aggression.
它不会引起攻击性。
And you can see this both behaviorally and in the amygdala.
你可以在行为上和杏仁核中看到这一点。
It lowers the threshold for the sort of things that would normally provoke you into being aggressive, so that it happens more easily.
它降低了那些通常会激起你攻击性的事情的门槛，因此它更容易发生。
It makes systems that are already turned on turn on louder rather than turning on aggressive music or some such thing.
它使已经打开的系统打开声音更大，而不是打开激进的音乐或类似的东西。
It's not creating aggression, it's just upping the volume of whatever aggression is already there.
它不会制造攻击性，它只是增加了已经存在的攻击性的强度。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
Yeah, and in terms of status and the relationship between individuals, either non-human primates or humans, can we say that relative levels of testosterone between individuals is correlated to status within the hierarchy?
是的，就地位和个体之间的关系而言，无论是非人类灵长类动物还是人类，我们是否可以说个体之间睾酮激素的相对水平与等级制度中的地位相关？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
You go back, I don't know whatever number of decades to endocrinology texts, and there were two totally reliable findings in there, which is higher levels of testosterone predict higher levels of aggression in humans and other animals.
你回去吧，我不知道内分泌学文本有多少年了，其中有两个完全可靠的发现，即睾丸激素水平较高，预示着人类和其他动物的攻击性较高。
Higher levels of testosterone predict higher levels of sexual activity.
睾酮水平越高，性活动水平越高。
And the correlation is there, and when you look closely, we've got cause and effect stuff.
相关性是存在的，当你仔细观察时，我们发现了因果关系。
Sexual behavior raises testosterone levels.
性行为会提高睾酮水平。
Aggression raises testosterone levels.
攻击性会提高睾丸激素水平。
Your levels beforehand are barely predictive of what's going to happen.
你事先的水平几乎无法预测将要发生的事情。
So it's a response rather than a cause.
所以这是一种反应而不是原因。
Just a great footnote, if you have the right type of willing to die in the trenches devotion sort of thing, watching your favorite team play a sport will raise your testosterone levels as you sit there with the potato chips in your armchair.
只是一个很好的脚注，如果你有那种愿意死在战壕里的奉献精神，当你坐在扶手椅上放着薯片时，观看你最喜欢的球队进行一项运动会提高你的睾丸激素水平。
So it's not the physicality of aggression, it's the psychological framing of it.
所以这不是攻击的身体原因，而是攻击的心理框架。
So yeah, testosterone is not causing that.
所以是的，睾酮不会导致这种情况。
And a great way to appreciate that is do a subtraction study.
理解这一点的一个好方法就是做减法研究。
You remove the testes, and as I said before, levels of sexual behavior goes down.
如果切除睾丸，正如我之前所说，性行为的水平就会下降。
Good.
好的。
We've just shown that testosterone is somehow causative.
我们刚刚证明睾酮在某种程度上是致病因素。
Critically, they go down, but not down to zero, whether you are a rat or a monkey or a human, whatever.
重要的是，无论你是老鼠、猴子还是人类，它们都会下降，但不会降到零。
And what predicts how much residual sexual behavior is there, how much sexual behavior there was before castration What that's telling you is by then, that's behavior that's being carried by social learning and context rather than by the hormone.
什么可以预测有多少残余性行为，在阉割之前有多少性行为。这告诉你，到那时，这种行为是由社会学习和环境而不是激素所承载的。
The exact same thing with aggression.
攻击性也是如此。
Drops after castration, doesn't go to zero.
阉割后下降，不会降为零。
The more prior history of it, the more it just keeps coasting along on its own, even without testosterone.
它的历史越早，它就越能自行滑行，即使没有睾丸激素。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
Last year, I became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
去年，在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我成为了 Function 成员。
Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health.
Function 提供 100 多项高级实验室测试，为您提供整个身体健康状况的关键快照。
This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more.
此快照为您提供有关心脏健康、激素健康、免疫功能、营养水平等方面的见解。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas.
Function 不仅提供对您的身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标记物的测试，而且还分析这些结果并提供相关领域专家的顶级医生的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量升高。
Function not only helped me detect that, but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, I'd been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification.
功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，还为我提供了如何最好地降低汞含量的见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼摄入量，我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力多吃绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒。
And I should say, by taking a second Function test, that approach worked.
我应该说，通过进行第二次功能测试，这种方法奏效了。
Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important.
全面的血液检测至关重要。
There are so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test.
有很多与您的心理和身体健康相关的事情只能通过血液检查来检测。
The problem is, blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated.
问题是，血液检测一直非常昂贵且复杂。
In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost.
相比之下，Function 的简单性和成本水平给我留下了深刻的印象。
It is very affordable.
这是非常实惠的。
As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
因此，我决定加入他们的科学顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Function，可以访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman Podcast listeners.
Function 目前有超过 250,000 人的等候名单，但他们正在为 Huberman 播客听众提供早期访问服务。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
Today's episode is also brought to us by LMNT.
今天的节目也是LMNT给我们带来的。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need but nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，但没有您不需要的。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的比例都正确，但不含糖。
Proper hydration is critical for optimal brain and body function.
适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体的最佳功能至关重要。
Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish cognitive and physical performance.
即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低认知和身体表现。
It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.
获得充足的电解质也很重要。
The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are vital for the functioning of all the cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.
电解质（钠、镁和钾）对于体内所有细胞（尤其是神经元或神经细胞）的功能至关重要。
Drinking LMNT dissolved in water makes it extremely easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.
饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT 可以非常轻松地确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。
To make sure that I'm getting proper amounts of hydration and electrolytes, I dissolve one packet of LMNT in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I wake up in the morning, and I drink that basically first thing in the morning.
为了确保我获得适量的水合作用和电解质，当我早上醒来时，我将一包 LMNT 溶解在大约 16 至 32 盎司的水中，并且我基本上早上第一件事就是喝它。
I also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing.
在进行任何体育锻炼时，我也会饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT。
They have a bunch of different great-tasting flavors of LMNT.
他们有多种不同口味的 LMNT。
They have watermelon, citrus, et cetera.
他们有西瓜、柑橘等。
Frankly, I love them all.
坦白说，我爱他们所有人。
If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/hubermanlab to claim a free LMNT sample pack with the purchase of any LMNT drink mix.
如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/hubermanlab，购买任何 LMNT 混合饮料即可领取免费 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/hubermanlab to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/hubermanlab 索取免费样品包。
As I've heard you talk about testosterone today and over the years, I start to get the impression that as the most misunderstood molecule in human health in the universe, it's clearly doing something very powerful.
当我今天和多年来听到你谈论睾酮时，我开始得到这样的印象：作为宇宙中人类健康中最容易被误解的分子，它显然正在做一些非常强大的事情。
It's shifting the way that certain neural circuits work, adjusting the gain on the amygdala, as you described.
正如您所描述的，它正在改变某些神经回路的工作方式，调整杏仁核的增益。
And is there any truism about testosterone and its relationship to effort or its relationship to resilience, and in a way that maybe will help me and other people sort of think about how to think about testosterone?
关于睾酮及其与努力的关系或与韧性的关系是否有任何不言而喻的道理，并且以某种方式可能会帮助我和其他人思考如何思考睾酮？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Maybe three separate answers to that.
也许对此有三个不同的答案。
The first one is, I think it's a fair summary to think that when it comes to motivated, strong behaviors, what testosterone does is make you more of whatever you already are.
第一个是，我认为这是一个公平的总结，认为当谈到积极的、强烈的行为时，睾丸激素的作用是让你变得更加优秀。
And that to me, sexual arousal, libido, aggressiveness, spontaneous aggression, reactive aggression, things of that sort.
对我来说，性唤起、性欲、攻击性、自发性攻击、反应性攻击等等。
It's upping the volume of things that are already strongly there.
它增加了已经存在的事物的数量。
Second way to think about it is...
第二种思考方式是......
Well, here's my favorite finding about testosterone.
嗯，这是我最喜欢的关于睾酮的发现。
And this was some wonderful work by a guy, John Wingfield, who's one of the best behavioral endocrinologists out there.
这是约翰·温菲尔德（John Wingfield）的出色工作，他是最好的行为内分泌学家之一。
And about 20 years ago, he formulated what was called the challenge hypothesis of testosterone action.
大约 20 年前，他提出了所谓的睾酮作用挑战假说。
What does testosterone do?
睾酮有什么作用？
Testosterone is what you secrete when your status is being challenged, and it makes it more likely that you'll do the behaviors needed to hold onto your status.
当你的地位受到挑战时，你会分泌睾丸激素，它会让你更有可能采取维持地位所需的行为。
Okay, so that's totally boringly straightforward if you're a baboon.
好吧，如果你是一只狒狒，那么这完全是无聊的简单。
If somebody's challenging your high rank, the appropriate response on your part is going to be aggression.
如果有人挑战你的高位，你的适当反应就是侵略。
All right, so we've just gotten through the back door, testosterone and aggression again.
好吧，我们刚刚又通过了后门、睾丸激素和攻击性。
But then you get to humans, and humans have lots of different ways of achieving or maintaining status.
但当你谈到人类时，人类有很多不同的方式来实现或维持地位。
And all you need to do is go to some fancy private school's annual auction, and you will see all these half-drunk alpha males competing to see who can give the most money away as a show of conspicuous property that they have.
你所需要做的就是去一些高档私立学校的年度拍卖会，你会看到所有这些半醉的雄性领袖竞相看谁能捐出最多的钱，以展示他们拥有的引人注目的财产。
And in a setting like that, I haven't been able to take urine samples at those times, unfortunately, but that shows the flip side of it.
不幸的是，在这样的情况下，我当时无法采集尿液样本，但这显示了它的另一面。
If you have a species that hands out status in a very different sort of way, testosterone's going to boost that also.
如果你有一个物种以一种非常不同的方式分配地位，睾丸激素也会促进这种方式。
Okay, so that generates a totally nutty prediction.
好的，这会产生一个完全疯狂的预测。
Wow, take people in a circumstance, say, playing an economic game where you get status By being trustworthy and being generous in your interactions with the game.
哇，让人们处于一种环境中，例如，玩经济游戏，通过在与游戏的互动中值得信赖和慷慨来获得地位。
If you give people testosterone, does that make them more generous?
如果你给人们睾丸激素，他们会变得更加慷慨吗？
And that's absolutely the case.
情况确实如此。
Totally cool finding.
非常酷的发现。
And if we have a societal problem with too much aggression, the first culprit to look at is not testosterone.
如果我们的社会问题是攻击性太强，那么第一个要注意的罪魁祸首就不是睾丸激素。
The first to look at is that we hand out so much damn elevated status for aggression in so many circumstances.
首先要注意的是，我们在很多情况下都给予侵略性如此高的地位。
Third thing about subtlety of testosterone.
第三件事是关于睾丸激素的微妙之处。
Okay, so, some subtler behavioral effects.
好的，一些更微妙的行为影响。
You give testosterone to people, and they become more confident.
你给人们睾丸激素，他们就会变得更加自信。
They become more self-confident.
他们变得更加自信。
Well, that's good.
嗯，那很好。
People pay to take all sorts of nonsensical self-help courses that will boost your self-esteem, and that's a good thing.
人们花钱参加各种无意义的自助课程，这会增强你的自尊，这是一件好事。
Unless testosterone makes you more confident, that is inaccurate, and you're more likely to barrel into wrong decisions.
除非睾丸激素让你更加自信，否则这是不准确的，而且你更有可能做出错误的决定。
What's shown in economic gameplay is that testosterone, by making you more confident, makes you less cooperative.
经济游戏中显示的是，睾丸激素会让你更加自信，但也会让你不那么合作。
Because who needs to cooperate?
因为谁需要合作？
Because I'm on top of this all on my own.
因为这一切都是我一个人在掌控。
Testosterone makes people cocky and impulsive, and that may be great in one setting, but if in the other is you're absolutely sure your army is going to overrun the other country in three days, so hell, let's start World War I, and you get a big surprise out of it.
睾丸激素使人自大和冲动，这在某种情况下可能很好，但如果在另一种情况下，你绝对确定你的军队将在三天内占领另一个国家，那么见鬼，让我们开始第一次世界大战，你会从中得到一个巨大的惊喜。
Testosterone altering risk assessment beforehand probably played a big role in that kind of miscalculation.
睾丸激素提前改变风险评估可能在这种误判中发挥了重要作用。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
Super interesting.
超级有趣。
I always think about testosterone and dopamine being close cousins in the brain because of dopamine's salient role in creating this bias towards exteroception.
我一直认为睾酮和多巴胺在大脑中是近亲，因为多巴胺在造成这种外感受偏见方面发挥着重要作用。
When somebody takes a drug that increases dopamine or they're chock-a-block full of dopamine, they tend, I want to highlight tend because I'm really generalizing here, but they tend to focus on outward goals, things beyond the boundaries of their skin.
当有人服用增加多巴胺的药物或体内充满多巴胺时，他们倾向于，我想强调倾向于，因为我在这里真的很概括，但他们倾向于关注外在目标，超越他们皮肤界限的事情。
And testosterone seems to do a bit of the same.
睾酮似乎也有同样的作用。
It tends to put us into a similar mode of perceiving the outside world in ways that we're asking questions like, "How do I relate to this other of my species?
它往往会让我们陷入一种类似的感知外部世界的模式，我们会问这样的问题：“我如何与我的物种中的另一个人建立联系？
How do I relate to these goals?" Is there anything that we can do to better conceptualize the relationship between testosterone and dopamine and motivation?
我如何与这些目标联系起来？”我们可以做些什么来更好地概念化睾酮、多巴胺和动机之间的关系吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I think it's got lots to do with sort of this massive revisionism about dopamine.
嗯，我认为这与对多巴胺的大规模修正主义有很大关系。
Everyone since the pharaohs got brought up being taught that dopamine is about pleasure and reward.
自法老王以来，每个人从小就被教导多巴胺与快乐和奖励有关。
Turns out it isn't.
事实证明并非如此。
It's about anticipation of reward, and it's about generating the motivation, the goal-directed behavior needed to go get that reward.
它关乎对奖励的预期，关乎产生动机，以及获得奖励所需的目标导向行为。
And before you know it, you're using elevated dopamine your entire life to motivate you to do whatever is going to get you entry into heaven, an afterlife.
在你意识到之前，你一生都在使用升高的多巴胺来激励你去做任何能让你进入天堂、来世的事情。
It's doing that sort of thing.
它正在做这样的事情。
So it's really about the motivation.
所以这实际上与动机有关。
And what testosterone does, even in individuals who are not aggressive, and why testosterone replacement is often a very helpful thing for aging males, is it increases energy, it increases a sense of thereness, of presence, of alertness, it increases motivation.
睾酮的作用，即使是在没有攻击性的个体中，以及为什么睾酮替代通常对老年男性非常有帮助，它会增加能量，增加存在感、存在感、警觉性，增加动力。
Testosterone within minutes increases glucose uptake into skeletal muscle.
睾酮在几分钟内就会增加骨骼肌对葡萄糖的吸收。
You're just more awake and alert and all of that, and that has a lot to do with what dopamine does.
你只是更加清醒和警觉等等，这与多巴胺的作用有很大关系。
And as one might predict then, getting just the right levels of testosterone infused into your bloodstream feels great to lab rats.
正如人们可能预测的那样，将适量的睾酮注入血液中对实验室老鼠来说感觉很棒。
They will lever press to get infused into the range that optimizes dopamine release.
他们将杠杆压力注入优化多巴胺释放的范围。
So there's, you're absolutely right.
所以，你是绝对正确的。
They're deeply intertwined.
他们深深地交织在一起。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
I want to ask about estrogen.
我想问一下雌激素的情况。
We don't hear about estrogen as often, and yet estrogen has very powerful effects on both the animal brain and on the human brain of males and females.
我们不常听说雌激素，但雌激素对动物大脑以及男性和女性的人类大脑都有非常强大的影响。
Are there any general themes of estrogen that people should be aware of or that you think that are generally misunderstood?
人们应该了解雌激素的一般主题，或者您认为这些主题普遍被误解吗？
Is it really all about feelings and empathy and making us more sensitive?
这真的是情感和同理心让我们变得更加敏感吗？
I sense not.
我感觉不是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. If you had a choice in the matter between having a lot of estrogen in your bloodstream or not, go for having a lot of estrogen.
不。如果您可以在血液中是否含有大量雌激素之间做出选择，那就选择含有大量雌激素。
It enhances cognition.
它增强认知。
It stimulates neurogenesis in the hippocampus.
它刺激海马体的神经发生。
It increases glucose and oxygen delivery.
它增加葡萄糖和氧气的输送。
It protects you from dementia.
它可以保护您免受痴呆症的侵害。
It decreases inflammatory oxidative damage to blood vessels, which is why it's good for protecting from cardiovascular disease.
它可以减少对血管的炎症氧化损伤，这就是为什么它有利于预防心血管疾病。
In contrast to testosterone, which is making every one of those things worse, estrogen is one of the greatest predictors of protection from Alzheimer's disease, all of that, but it needs to be physiological.
与睾酮相比，雌激素是预防阿尔茨海默病的最佳预测因子之一，但它必须是生理性的。睾酮会使所有这些情况变得更糟。
Just keep going, keep continuing what your body has been doing for a long time, versus let the whole thing shut down and suddenly try to fire up the coal stoves at the bottom of the basement kind of thing and get that going.
只要继续前进，继续你的身体长期以来一直在做的事情，而不是让整个事情停止，然后突然尝试点燃地下室底部的煤炉之类的东西并开始进行。
There you get utterly different outcomes.
在那里你会得到完全不同的结果。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
Fascinating.
令人着迷。
I guess it raises the question about testosterone replacement, too.
我想这也引发了关于睾酮替代的问题。
Whether or not people should talk to their doctor before too long.
人们是否应该尽快与医生交谈。
Men and women, talk to your physicians before too long to avoid these, whatever is happening in these periods where there isn't sufficient testosterone and/or estrogen, sounds like could cause longer term problems even when therapies are introduced.
男性和女性，请尽快与您的医生联系以避免这些情况，在睾酮和/或雌激素不足的时期发生的任何情况，听起来即使引入治疗也可能会导致长期问题。
I'd like to briefly return to stress.
我想简单地回到压力上来。
You described a study once about two rats, one running on a wheel voluntarily one who's basically stuck in a running wheel and is forced to run anytime rat number one runs.
您曾经描述过一项关于两只老鼠的研究，其中一只自愿在轮子上奔跑，另一只基本上被困在轮子上，每当第一只老鼠奔跑时就被迫奔跑。
So in one case, the rat is voluntarily exercising, and in the other case, the rat is being forced to go to PE class, so to speak, and seeing divergent effects on biology.
因此，在一种情况下，老鼠自愿锻炼，而在另一种情况下，老鼠被迫去上体育课，可以这么说，并看到对生物学的不同影响。
What do you think about stress mitigation, and what should we do as individuals and as families and as a culture to try and encourage people to mitigate their stress, but in ways that are not going to turn us into rat number two, where we're being forced to mitigate our own stress, and therefore, it becomes more stressful?
您对减轻压力有何看法？作为个人、家庭和文化，我们应该做什么，尝试鼓励人们减轻压力，但又不会让我们变成二号老鼠，我们被迫减轻自己的压力，从而变得更有压力？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And what you see is rat number one gets all the benefits of exercise.
你看到的是，一号老鼠获得了锻炼的所有好处。
Rat number two gets all the downsides of severe stress with the same exact muscle expenditure and movements going on, perfectly yoked.
第二只老鼠受到了严重压力的所有负面影响，但肌肉消耗和运动却完全一样，而且完美地结合在一起。
Great example that it's the interpretation in your head.
很好的例子，它是你头脑中的解释。
Anything I should say here, I should preface with, I'm reasonably good at telling people what's going to happen if they don't manage their stress, but I'm terrible at actually managing stress or advising how to manage it.
我应该在这里说的任何话，我都应该在序言中说，我相当擅长告诉人们如果不管理压力将会发生什么，但我不擅长实际管理压力或建议如何管理压力。
I'm much better with the bad news aspect of it.
我对坏消息的看法要好得多。
But some people have massive stress responses, others not at all, in between, enjoy it.
但有些人有巨大的压力反应，而另一些人则完全没有，在这两者之间，他们很享受它。
What are the building blocks of what makes psychological stress, stress?
造成心理压力、压力的因素是什么？
And the first one is exactly what is brought up by that running study.
第一个正是该正在进行的研究所提出的内容。
Do you have a sense of control?
你有掌控感吗？
A sense of control makes stressors less stressful.
控制感可以减轻压力源的压力。
And related to that is a sense of predictability.
与此相关的是一种可预测性。
And that's enormously protective.
这具有极大的保护作用。
Others, outlet for frustration.
其他人，则是发泄沮丧的出口。
You take a rat who's getting shocked, and it can gnaw on a bar of wood.
你拿一只受到电击的老鼠，它可以啃咬一根木头。
The stressor is less stressful.
压力源压力较小。
Unfortunately, if you have a rat or primate or human and they're stressed, the ability to aggressively dump on somebody smaller and weaker also reduces the stress response, and the fact that displacement aggression reduces stress accounts for a huge percentage of Earth's unhappiness.
不幸的是，如果你有一只老鼠、灵长类动物或人类，并且它们感到压力，那么攻击性地向更小、更弱的动物倾倒的能力也会减少压力反应，而流离失所的攻击性减少压力的事实在地球上的不快乐中占了很大比例。
So all of those variables get social support as well.
因此，所有这些变量也都得到了社会支持。
That's a good one, interpreting circumstances as being good news rather than bad.
这是一件好事，将情况解释为好消息而不是坏消息。
Hooray.
万岁。
So you've got this very simple take-home recipe of go out and get as much control and as much predictability and as many outlets and as much social support as possible, and you're going to do just fine.
因此，你已经有了这个非常简单的带回家的秘诀，那就是走出去，获得尽可能多的控制力、尽可能多的可预测性、尽可能多的渠道和尽可能多的社会支持，你就会做得很好。
And you go out and do that, and that's a recipe for total disaster because it's much, much more subtle than that.
如果你出去这样做，那就会导致彻底的灾难，因为它比那要微妙得多。
And that's why stress management techniques about control and predictability wind up being far worse than neutral if you're preaching that to somebody homeless or somebody with terminal cancer or somebody who's a refugee.
这就是为什么如果你向无家可归的人、患有晚期癌症的人或难民宣讲有关控制和可预测性的压力管理技术，结果会比中性的要糟糕得多。
Tell a neurotic middle-class person that they have the psychological tools to turn hell into heaven, and there's some truth to that.
告诉一个神经质的中产阶级，他们拥有将地狱变成天堂的心理工具，这有一定道理。
Do the same thing to somebody who's going through a real hell, and that's just privileged heartlessness to do that because that doesn't work.
对正在经历真正地狱的人做同样的事情，这只是一种无情的特权，因为这样做是行不通的。
It's not simple.
这并不简单。
It takes a lot of work to do it right because when you do it wrong, and it may temporarily seem like a great thing, but when it turns out to be completely misplaced faith, you're going to be feeling worse than before you started.
需要做很多工作才能把事情做好，因为当你做错了，它可能暂时看起来是一件很棒的事情，但当事实证明这是完全错误的信念时，你会感觉比开始之前更糟糕。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。
AG1 is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that also includes prebiotics and adaptogens.
AG1 是一种维生素矿物质益生菌饮料，还包含益生元和适应原。
As somebody who's been involved in research science for almost three decades and in health and fitness for equally as long, I'm constantly looking for the best tools to improve my mental health, physical health, and performance.
作为一个从事科学研究近三十年以及同样长期从事健康和健身工作的人，我一直在寻找最好的工具来改善我的心理健康、身体健康和表现。
I discovered AG1 back in 2012, long before I ever had a podcast, and I've been taking it every day since.
我早在 2012 年就发现了 AG1，那时我还没有播客，从那时起我就每天都在服用它。
I find it improves all aspects of my health, my energy, my focus, and I simply feel much better when I take it.
我发现它改善了我的健康、精力、注意力的各个方面，而且服用它后我感觉好多了。
AG1 uses the highest quality ingredients in the right combinations, and they're constantly improving their formulas without increasing the cost.
AG1 使用最优质的成分进行正确的组合，并且在不增加成本的情况下不断改进其配方。
In fact, AG1 just launched their latest formula upgrade.
事实上，AG1刚刚推出了他们最新的配方升级。
This next-gen formula is based on exciting new research on the effects of probiotics on the gut microbiome, and it now includes several clinically studied probiotic strains shown to support both digestive health and immune system health, as well as to improve bowel regularity and to reduce bloating.
这种下一代配方基于关于益生菌对肠道微生物组影响的令人兴奋的新研究，它现在包含几种经过临床研究的益生菌菌株，这些益生菌菌株显示出支持消化健康和免疫系统健康，以及改善肠道规律性和减少腹胀。
Whenever I'm asked if I could take just one supplement, what that supplement would be, I always say AG1.
每当我被问到是否可以只服用一种补充剂时，我总是说 AG1。
If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman。
For a limited time, AG1 is giving away a free one-month supply of omega-3 fish oil along with a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2.
AG1 限时免费赠送一个月的 omega-3 鱼油以及一瓶维生素 D3 加 K2。
As I've highlighted before on this podcast, omega-3 fish oil and vitamin D3 K2 have been shown to help with everything from mood and brain health, to heart health, to healthy hormone status, and much more.
正如我之前在此播客中强调的那样，omega-3 鱼油和维生素 D3 K2 已被证明对改善情绪和大脑健康、心脏健康、健康激素状态等各个方面都有帮助。
Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman to get a free one-month supply of omega-3 fish oil plus a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 with your subscription.
再次强调，通过 Drinkag1.com/huberman 订阅，即可免费获得一个月的 omega-3 鱼油以及一瓶维生素 D3 和 K2。
Today's episode is also brought to us by David.
今天的节目也是大卫给我们带来的。
David makes a protein bar unlike any other.
大卫制作的蛋白质棒与众不同。
It has 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar.
它含有 28 克蛋白质，仅 150 卡路里，零克糖。
That's right, 28 grams of protein and 75% of its calories come from protein.
没错，28克蛋白质，其75%的热量都来自于蛋白质。
This is 50% higher than the next closest protein bar.
这比第二接近的蛋白质棒高出 50%。
David protein bars also taste amazing.
大卫蛋白棒的味道也很棒。
Even the texture is amazing.
就连质感也令人惊叹。
My favorite bar is the chocolate chip cookie dough, but then again, I also like the new chocolate peanut butter flavor and the chocolate brownie flavor.
我最喜欢的巧克力棒是巧克力饼干面团，但话又说回来，我也喜欢新的巧克力花生酱口味和巧克力布朗尼口味。
Basically, I like all the flavors a lot.
基本上，所有的口味我都很喜欢。
They're all incredibly delicious.
它们都非常美味。
In fact, the toughest challenge is knowing which ones to eat on which days and how many times per day.
事实上，最艰巨的挑战是知道哪一天吃哪些食物以及每天吃多少次。
I limit myself to two per day, but I absolutely love them.
我限制自己每天只能吃两个，但我绝对喜欢它们。
With David, I'm able to get 28 grams of protein in the calories of a snack, which makes it easy to hit my protein goals of one gram of protein per pound of body weight per day, and it allows me to do so without ingesting too many calories.
有了 David，我就能在一份零食的卡路里中获得 28 克蛋白质，这让我很容易达到每天每磅体重 1 克蛋白质的蛋白质目标，而且我可以在不摄入太多卡路里的情况下实现这一目标。
I'll eat a David protein bar most afternoons as a snack, and I always keep one with me when I'm out of the house or traveling.
大多数下午我都会吃大卫蛋白棒作为零食，当我出门或旅行时，我总是随身携带一根。
They're incredibly delicious, and given that they have 28 grams of protein, they're really satisfying for having just 150 calories.
它们非常美味，而且含有 28 克蛋白质，仅含 150 卡路里热量就已经很令人满意了。
If you'd like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 David，可以访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
Again, that's davidprotein.com/huberman.
同样，这是 david Protein.com/huberman。
These days, there's a lot of interest in using physical practices to mitigate stress, trying to get out of the ruminating and, to some extent, take control of neural circuits in the brain by using exercise and using breathing and hypnosis.
如今，人们对使用身体练习来减轻压力、试图摆脱沉思以及在某种程度上通过锻炼、呼吸和催眠来控制大脑中的神经回路产生了很大的兴趣。
What are your thoughts on more, for lack of a better way to put it, more head-centered cognitive approaches to stress mitigation versus going at the core physiology?
由于缺乏更好的表达方式，您对更多以头部为中心的认知方法来缓解压力与关注核心生理学有何看法？
Cold showers now are even a thing to some extent, just to get people stress acclimated, voluntarily taking cold showers.
现在洗冷水澡在某种程度上甚至是一种现象，只是为了让人们适应压力，自愿洗冷水澡。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, transcendental meditation, mindfulness, exercise, prayer, sort of reflecting on gratitude, all that sort of thing, collectively, they work on the average.
哦，超然冥想、正念、锻炼、祈祷、反思感恩之类的事情，总的来说，它们都是有效的。
They work in terms of they can lower heart rate and cholesterol levels and have all sorts of good outcomes.
它们的作用是降低心率和胆固醇水平，并产生各种良好的效果。
But they come with provisos.
但它们是有附带条件的。
One is exactly the caveat that comes out of the Groningen study, is it doesn't matter how many of your friends swear by the stress management technique, if doing it makes you want to scream your head off after 10 seconds, that's not the one that's going to work for you.
格罗宁根研究中提出的一个警告是，无论你有多少朋友坚信压力管理技术，如果这样做让你在 10 秒后想尖叫，那么这对你就不起作用。
So read the fine print in the testimonials, but it's got to be something that works for you.
因此，请阅读推荐中的细则，但它必须是适合您的东西。
Another one is the stress management type techniques that work, you can't save them for the weekend.
另一种是有效的压力管理类型的技巧，你不能把它们留到周末。
You can't save them for when you're stuck on hold on the phone with Muzak for two minutes.
当您在电话中等待 Muzak 两分钟时，您无法保存它们。
It's got to be something where you stop what you're doing and do it virtually daily or every other day and spend 20, 30 minutes doing it.
它必须是你停下手头的事情，几乎每天或每隔一天做一次，花 20 到 30 分钟做的事情。
Whatever stress management technique you then do in those 20 minutes, short of who knows what, you're already 80% of the way there simply by having decided your well-being is important enough that you're going to stop every single day and have that as priority.
无论你在这 20 分钟内采取什么压力管理技巧，谁知道会发生什么，你已经成功了 80%，只要你认定自己的健康足够重要，每天都停下来并把它作为优先事项。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
So there's no magic breathing tool or exercise.
所以没有神奇的呼吸工具或练习。
It's any variety of those or one of those, and again, we come back to this idea that it's the one that you select and the one that you make space for, and it's the one that you hopefully enjoy, that's going to work best in terms of physiology.
它可以是其中的任何一种，也可以是其中的一种，我们再次回到这个想法，即它是你选择的那个，你为它腾出空间的那个，它是你希望喜欢的那个，从生理学角度来看，它会发挥最好的作用。
That brings me to this question of, I find it amazing that how we perceive an event and whether or not we chose to be in that event or not can have such incredibly different effects on circuitry of the brain and circuitry of the body and biology of cells.
这让我想到了这个问题，我发现令人惊讶的是，我们如何感知一个事件以及我们是否选择参与该事件会对大脑电路、身体电路和细胞生物学产生如此令人难以置信的不同影响。
And in some ways, it boggles my mind.
在某些方面，它让我感到困惑。
How can a decision made presumably with the prefrontal cortex, although other parts of the brain as well, how can that change essentially the polarity of a response in the body?
前额叶皮层如何做出决定，尽管大脑的其他部分也是如此，这如何从本质上改变身体反应的极性？
And you've talked before about type A personalities, and we don't have to go into all the detail there for sake of time, but it is interesting that the effects of endothelial cells, literally of the size of the portals for blood, are in opposite direction, depending on whether or not somebody wants to be in a situation, is a highly motivated person.
你之前谈到过A型人格，由于时间关系，我们不必详细讨论那里的所有细节，但有趣的是，内皮细胞的影响，实际上是血液门户的大小，是相反的方向，这取决于一个人是否愿意处于一种情况，是一个高度积极的人。
Maybe you could just give us the top contour of that, and then maybe if you would, you could just speculate on how the brain might have this switch to turn one experience from terrible to beneficial, or from beneficial to terrible.
也许你可以给我们一个大概的轮廓，然后如果你愿意的话，你可以推测大脑如何进行这种转换，将一种经历从可怕变成有益，或者从有益变成可怕。
It's really fascinating.
这真的很令人着迷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You can think autonomic regulatory neurons into action in ways that only other animals can do with extremes of environmental circumstances.
你可以想象自主调节神经元会以只有其他动物才能在极端环境条件下采取的方式发挥作用。
We talk about the optimal amount of stress that counts as stimulation, and in general, that's stress that's not too severe and doesn't go on for too long and is overall in a benevolent setting.
我们谈论的是算作刺激的最佳压力量，一般来说，这种压力不太严重，也不会持续太长时间，并且总体上处于仁慈的环境中。
And under those conditions, we love being stressed by something unexpected and out of control and predictability, like a really interesting plot turn in the movie you're watching.
在这种情况下，我们喜欢因意外、失控和可预测的事情而感到压力，就像你正在观看的电影中非常有趣的情节转变。
That's great, but you get the individual differences that somehow has to accommodate the fact that for some people, the perfect stimulatory amount of stress is getting up early for an Audubon bird watching walk next Sunday morning, and for somebody else, it's signing up to be a mercenary in Yemen.
这很好，但你会发现个体差异必须以某种方式适应这样一个事实：对于某些人来说，完美的刺激压力是下周日早上早起去奥杜邦观鸟散步，而对于其他人来说，最好的刺激压力是报名参加也门的雇佣兵。
And tremendous individual differences that swamp any simple prescriptions.
巨大的个体差异淹没了任何简单的处方。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
Yeah.
是的。
The prefrontal cortex, this thinking machinery that we all harbor, it's such a double-edged sword.
前额皮质，我们所有人都拥有的思维机器，它是一把双刃剑。
And what's remarkable to me is how the areas of the brain, like the hypothalamus and the amygdala, they're sort of like switches.
对我来说值得注意的是大脑区域，比如下丘脑和杏仁核，它们有点像开关。
If you stimulate ventromedial hypothalamus, you get the right neurons, an animal will try and kill even an object that's sitting next to it.
如果刺激下丘脑腹内侧区，就会获得正确的神经元，动物甚至会尝试杀死坐在它旁边的物体。
You tickle some other neurons, it'll try and mate with that same object.
你刺激其他一些神经元，它会尝试与同一个物体交配。
It's really wild.
真的很狂野。
I think there are probably rules to prefrontal cortex also, but it sounds like the contexts, plural, from which prefrontal cortex can draw from is probably infinite, so that we could probably learn to perceive threat in anything, whether or not it's another group or whether or not it's science or whether or not it's somebody's version of the shape of the Earth versus another.
我认为前额叶皮层可能也有规则，但听起来前额叶皮层可以从中汲取的背景，复数，可能是无限的，因此我们可能可以学会感知任何事物中的威胁，无论它是否是另一个群体，无论它是否是科学，或者它是否是某人版本的地球形状与另一个版本。
It's like you can plug in anything to this system and give it enough data, and I think it sounds like you could drive a fear response or a love response.
就像你可以将任何东西插入这个系统并为其提供足够的数据，我认为这听起来像是你可以驱动恐惧反应或爱反应。
Is that overstepping?
这是否越界了？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, that's absolutely the case.
不，绝对是这样。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
To what extent can we toggle this relationship between the prefrontal cortex and these other more primitive systems?
我们可以在多大程度上切换前额叶皮层和其他更原始系统之间的关系？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, an enormous amount.
噢，数额巨大。
For example, being low in a hierarchy Is generally bad for health in every mammal out there, including us.
例如，对于包括我们在内的每一种哺乳动物来说，等级较低通常都不利于健康。
But we do something special, which is we can be part of multiple hierarchies at the same time.
但我们做了一些特别的事情，那就是我们可以同时成为多个层次结构的一部分。
And while you may be low-ranking in one of them, you could be extremely high-ranking in another.
虽然你可能在其中一项中排名较低，但在另一项中你可能排名极高。
You have the crappiest job in your corporation, but you're the captain of the softball team this year for the company.
你的工作是公司里最糟糕的，但你今年却是公司垒球队的队长。
And you better bet that's somebody who's going to find all sorts of ways to decide that 9:00 to 5:00, Monday to Friday is just stupid, paying the bills, and what really matters is the prestige on the weekend.
你最好打赌，这个人会找到各种方法来决定周一到周五的 9:00 到 5:00 只是愚蠢的，支付账单，真正重要的是周末的声望。
So we can play all sorts of psychological games with that.
所以我们可以用它来玩各种心理游戏。
One of the most consistent, reliable ones that we do, and need to use the frontal cortex like crazy is, somebody does something rotten, and you need to attribute it, and the answer is they did something rotten because they're rotten.
我们所做的最一致、最可靠的事情之一，并且需要疯狂地使用额叶皮层，是，有人做了一些糟糕的事情，你需要归因于它，答案是他们做了一些糟糕的事情，因为他们很糟糕。
Always have been, always will be this constitutional explanation.
这种宪法解释一直是、也将永远是。
You do something rotten to somebody, and how do you explain it afterward?
你做了一些对别人不好的事，事后你如何解释？
A situational one.
一种情境性的。
I was tired, I was stressed.
我很累，我压力很大。
In this sort of setting, I misunderstood this.
在这种情况下，我误解了这一点。
We're best at excusing ourselves from bad things because we have access to our inner lives, and we've got prefrontal cortexes that are great at coming up with a situational explanation, rather than, hey, maybe you're just a selfish, rotten human and you need to change.
我们最擅长为不好的事情找借口，因为我们可以接触到自己的内心生活，而且我们的前额叶皮层非常擅长提出情境解释，而不是说，嘿，也许你只是一个自私、腐朽的人，你需要改变。
And that's all prefrontal cortex, and we do that every time we don't let somebody merge in the lane in front of us, even though you curse somebody who does the same thing to you, and endlessly.
这都是前额叶皮层，每次我们不让某人并入我们前面的车道时，我们都会这样做，即使你咒骂某人对你做同样的事情，而且无休无止。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
I love it.
我喜欢它。
Your statement about the fact that we can select multiple hierarchies to participate in, to me, seems like a particularly important one nowadays with social media being so prevalent.
在我看来，您关于我们可以选择多个层次结构来参与这一事实的说法，在社交媒体如此盛行的今天似乎是一个特别重要的说法。
But what's interesting about social media, I've found, is that the context is very broad.
但我发现社交媒体的有趣之处在于它的背景非常广泛。
As you scroll through a feed, you are being exposed to thousands, if not millions, of contexts.
当您滚动浏览提要时，您将接触到数千甚至数百万个上下文。
This meal, that soccer game, this person's body, this person's intellect.
这顿饭，那场足球比赛，这个人的身体，这个人的智力。
It's a vast landscape.
这是一片广阔的风景。
So the context is completely mishmash, whereas I'm assuming we evolved, I think we did evolve, under contexts that were much more constrained.
所以环境完全是混杂的，虽然我假设我们进化了，但我认为我们确实进化了，在更受限制的环境下。
We interacted with a limited number of individuals and in a limited number of different domains.
我们与有限数量的个人和有限数量的不同领域进行了互动。
But now more than ever, our brain, our prefrontal cortex, and our sense of where we exist in these multiple hierarchies has essentially wicked out into infinity.
但现在，我们的大脑、前额叶皮层以及我们对自己在这些多重层次结构中的存在位置的感觉比以往任何时候都更加糟糕。
How do you think this might be interacting with some of these more primitive systems and other aspects of our biology?
您认为这可能如何与一些更原始的系统和我们生物学的其他方面相互作用？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I think what you get is, in some ways, the punchline of what's most human about humans, which is over and over, we use the exact same blueprint, the same hormones, the same kinases, the same receptors, the same everything.
好吧，我认为你所得到的是，在某些方面，人类最人性化的要点，一遍又一遍，我们使用完全相同的蓝图，相同的激素，相同的激酶，相同的受体，相同的一切。
We're built out of the exact same stuff as all these other species out there, and then we go and use it in a completely novel way, and usually in terms of being able to abstract stuff over space and time in dramatic ways.
我们是由与所有其他物种完全相同的东西构成的，然后我们以一种完全新颖的方式使用它，通常是能够以戏剧性的方式在空间和时间上抽象东西。
So okay, you're a low-ranking baboon, and you can feel badly because you just killed a rabbit and you're about to eat, and some higher-ranking guy boots you off and takes it away from you.
好吧，你是一只低级别的狒狒，你可能会感觉很糟糕，因为你刚刚杀了一只兔子，正要吃东西，而一些高级别的家伙把你踢了下来，把它从你身边夺走了。
And you feel crummy, and it's stressful, and you're unhappy.
你会感觉很糟糕，压力很大，而且不快乐。
We are doing the exact same things with our brain and bodies when we're losing a sense of self-esteem, but we can do it by watching a movie character on a screen and feeling inadequate compared to how wonderful or attractive they are.
当我们失去自尊感时，我们的大脑和身体会做同样的事情，但我们可以通过观看屏幕上的电影角色并与他们的精彩或吸引力相比感到不足来做到这一点。
We can do it by somebody driving past us in an expensive car, and we don't even see their face, and you can feel belittled by your own socioeconomic status.
我们可以通过某人开着一辆昂贵的汽车从我们身边驶过来做到这一点，我们甚至看不到他们的脸，你会因为自己的社会经济地位而感到被贬低。
You can watch the lifestyles of the rich and famous, or read about what Bezos is up to, and for some reason, decide your life is less fulfilling because you didn't fly into space for 11 minutes.
你可以观察富人和名人的生活方式，或者读到贝索斯在做什么，然后出于某种原因，你会觉得自己的生活不太充实，因为你有 11 分钟没有飞入太空。
And so you can feel miserable about yourself in ways that no other organism can, simply because we can have our meaningful social networks include the party you're reading about on Facebook that you weren't invited to.
因此，你会对自己感到痛苦，这是其他有机体无法做到的，仅仅因为我们可以让我们有意义的社交网络包括你在 Facebook 上读到的、你没有被邀请参加的聚会。
Because it's taking place in Singapore and you don't know any of those people, but nonetheless, somehow that could be a means for you to feel less content with who you've turned out to be.
因为它发生在新加坡，而你不认识这些人中的任何一个，但无论如何，这可能会成为你对自己的身份感到不那么满意的一种方式。
Dr. Robert Sapolsky:
罗伯特·萨波尔斯基博士：
I'm very grateful to you for this conversation today.
我非常感谢你今天的这次谈话。
I learned a ton.
我学到了很多。
Every time you speak, I learn, and for me, it's really been a pleasure and a delight to interact with you today and over the previous years, I should say, as colleagues.
每次你发言时，我都会学到东西，对我来说，今天和过去几年与你互动真的是一种愉快和愉快，我应该说，作为同事。
And thank you again, Robert, for everything that you do and all the hard work and thinking that you put into your work, because it's clear that you put a lot of hard work and thinking, and we all benefit as a consequence.
再次感谢你，罗伯特，感谢你所做的一切以及你在工作中付出的所有努力和思考，因为很明显，你付出了很多努力和思考，我们都因此受益。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thanks.
谢谢。
And thanks for having me.
谢谢你邀请我。
This was a blast.
这真是太棒了。
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
NFL football season is here, which means when you switch to Verizon, it feels like touchdown, because you get NFL Sunday Ticket from YouTube on us, when you buy an eligible 5G phone on select unlimited plans.
NFL 橄榄球赛季即将到来，这意味着当您切换到 Verizon 时，感觉就像触地得分一样，因为当您购买符合条件的 5G 手机并选择无限制套餐时，您就可以通过我们从 YouTube 获得 NFL 周日门票。
Which means you can watch every out-of-market game every Sunday afternoon.
这意味着您可以在每周日下午观看每场场外比赛。
And it's all on us.
这一切都在我们身上。
Now that's the Verizon way to kick off the NFL football season right.
这就是 Verizon 开启 NFL 橄榄球赛季的方式。
Switch and get NFL Sunday Ticket from YouTube on us.
切换并从 YouTube 获取 NFL 周日门票。
Only with Verizon.
仅与威瑞森合作。