Essentials: Optimize Your Exercise Program with Science-Based Tools | Jeff Cavaliere
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Welcome to Huberman Lab Essentials, where we revisit past episodes for the most potent and actionable science-based tools for mental health, physical health, and performance.
欢迎来到 Huberman Lab Essentials，在这里我们回顾过去的剧集，寻找针对心理健康、身体健康和表现的最有效、最可操作的基于科学的工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
And now for my discussion with Jeff Cavaliere.
现在我与杰夫·卡瓦利埃进行讨论。
Jeff, such a pleasure for me to have you here.
杰夫，我很高兴你能来到这里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm glad to be here.
我很高兴来到这里。
It's amazing.
太棒了。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Now, I'm a longtime consumer of your content.
现在，我是您内容的长期消费者。
I've learned a tremendous amount about fitness, both in the weight room, cardio, nutrition, things that I've applied for over a decade.
我学到了很多关于健身的知识，包括举重室、有氧运动、营养，这些都是我十多年来所应用的。
One of your mantras is, if you want to look like an athlete, train like an athlete.
你的口头禅之一是，如果你想看起来像一名运动员，就像运动员一样训练。
And I think that's something really special that sets aside what you do from what a lot of other very well-qualified people do.
我认为这是一件非常特别的事情，它将你所做的事情与许多其他非常有资格的人所做的事情区分开来。
What's the sort of contour of a basic program that anybody could think about as a starting place?
任何人都可以将其作为起点的基本程序的轮廓是什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it's like a 60/40 split, which would be leaning towards weight training, strength, and then the conditioning aspect be about 40%.
我认为这就像 60/40 的分配，倾向于重量训练、力量训练，然后体能方面大约占 40%。
So if you look at it over a course of a training week, five days in a gym would be a great tasking.
因此，如果你从一周的训练过程来看，在健身房呆五天将是一项很棒的任务。
Obviously not in the gym, it could be done at home, but three days strength training, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, conditioning Tuesday, Thursday, two days.
显然不是在健身房，可以在家里完成，而是三天的力量训练，周一、周三、周五，周二、周四的调理，两天。
It's a pretty easy roundabout way to split that up.
这是一种非常简单的迂回方式来分割它。
Of course, depending upon training goals, and as you said, the aesthetic goals like that will shift dramatically.
当然，根据训练目标，正如你所说，诸如此类的审美目标会发生巨大变化。
But if you want to see the benefits of both, that's probably the effective dose for strength training and the effective dose for conditioning at the bare minimum level.
但如果你想看到两者的好处，这可能是力量训练的有效剂量和体能训练的有效剂量的最低水平。
We try to keep our workouts to an hour or less if possible.
如果可能的话，我们尽量将锻炼时间控制在一个小时或更短。
Now depending upon the split that you're following, if you're on a total body split, there's just going to be more that has to be done in a given amount of time.
现在，根据您所遵循的分裂，如果您进行全身分裂，则在给定的时间内必须完成更多的事情。
But in general, when you're not focused on that one aspect, but the overall health picture, then you can get the job done in under an hour.
但总的来说，当您不关注某一方面，而是关注整体健康状况时，您可以在一小时内完成工作。
And again, I always say on top of if you want to look like an athlete, train like an athlete is you can either train long or you can train hard, but you can't do both.
再说一遍，我总是说，如果你想看起来像一名运动员，那么除了像运动员一样训练之外，你可以长时间训练，也可以刻苦训练，但你不能两者兼得。
As you start to get older, it's the length of the workout that actually causes more problems than the intensity of what you're doing, particularly if you're warmed up properly like you said.
当你开始变老时，锻炼的时间长度实际上会比你正在做的事情的强度造成更多的问题，特别是如果你像你所说的那样进行了适当的热身。
I've found personally that my warm-up has had to become more of an integral part of my workout than it ever has before.
我个人发现，我的热身比以往任何时候都必须成为我锻炼中不可或缺的一部分。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
In terms of splits, you mentioned splits, and so for those who aren't familiar with this term splits, it's really which body parts are you training on which days.
在劈叉方面，您提到了劈叉，因此对于那些不熟悉劈叉这个术语的人来说，实际上是您在哪一天训练哪些身体部位。
I've seen you discuss three days a week whole body workouts.
我见过你讨论每周三天的全身锻炼。
I've heard of splits like a pushing one day, pulling another day, legs another day, a day off, repeat.
我听说过劈叉，比如一天推，另一天拉，另一天腿，休息一天，重复。
There's so many variations on this.
这有很多变体。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
What's governing the split?
是什么在支配着分裂？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For me, the first rule is will you stick to it?
对我来说，第一条规则是你会遵守吗？
I don't particularly like full body splits.
我不太喜欢全身劈叉。
I don't necessarily like to have to train everything.
我不一定喜欢训练所有的东西。
Now, of course, the volumes will come down per muscle group, but if you don't like to do that, and you actually don't look forward to your workout because you're dreading having to do everything and feeling maybe too fatigued by the time your workout's over, or the fact that those generally do take a little bit longer and don't fit into your schedule, I don't care how effective the split is, a split not done is not effective.
当然，现在每个肌肉群的训练量都会下降，但如果你不喜欢这样做，而且你实际上并不期待锻炼，因为你害怕必须做所有事情，并且在锻炼结束时感觉可能太疲劳，或者事实上这些锻炼通常需要更长的时间并且不适合你的日程安排，我不在乎分割有多有效，没有完成的分割是没有效果的。
So you need to find one that fits.
所以你需要找到一个合适的。
So maybe you go into an alternative option like a push-pull legs, like you mentioned.
因此，也许您会选择另一种选择，例如推拉腿，就像您提到的那样。
That could be done either one cycle through the week on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday split, or it could be twice in a week, so you're actually training six times, where you repeat it, pull, push legs, pull, push legs, or however you want to do it with either a day off in between the three days or at the end of the six days.
这可以在周一、周三、周五进行一周的一个循环，也可以一周进行两次，所以你实际上训练了六次，你重复训练，拉、推腿，拉、推腿，或者你想在三天之间或六天结束时休息一天来进行。
And again, that actually impacts your schedule.
再说一次，这实际上会影响你的日程安排。
I've broken that down before where if you put it in between the three days, it's good because you're giving yourself an extra rest day in between, but it starts to shift that day off every week as we wrap around.
我之前已经对此进行过分析，如果你把它放在三天之间，那很好，因为你在中间给了自己一个额外的休息日，但随着我们的结束，它开始每周都会转移这一天。
So for those guys that were choosing that seven-day schedule out of convenience in our heads, it starts to mess with that off day.
因此，对于那些出于方便考虑而选择 7 天日程安排的人来说，这开始让休息日变得混乱。
So others like to just keep it predictably, let's say, on a Sunday and train six days in a row.
因此，其他人喜欢保持可预测的状态，比如说，在周日连续训练六天。
But that's a better way to maybe group similar muscle actions together, which I think I definitely prefer that because if I'm going to be training pulling movements, at least there's a synergy between them, and I feel like I'm looking to achieve one goal that day.
但这可能是一种更好的方法，可以将类似的肌肉动作组合在一起，我想我绝对更喜欢这样，因为如果我要训练拉动动作，至少它们之间存在协同作用，而且我觉得我希望那天实现一个目标。
And then, quite honestly, you could go back to the bro split days, and those still work effectively.
然后，老实说，你可以回到兄弟分裂的日子，那些仍然有效。
There's a reason why they worked in the past.
他们过去工作是有原因的。
I think that science shows that there's smarter ways to do them these days.
我认为科学表明现在有更聪明的方法可以做到这一点。
You can come back and hit a related muscle.
你可以回来击打相关的肌肉。
So you could do, let's say, biceps on one day and then come back two days later and do back realizing again, synergy between the exercises there.
所以你可以一天做二头肌，然后两天后回来，再次意识到练习之间的协同作用。
Your biceps are going to get restimulated again.
你的二头肌将再次受到刺激。
So you could figure out ways to make that work.
所以你可以想办法让它发挥作用。
But the thing that I think is effective there is that tends to be one of the ones that people like the most because they can go in, they get their pump, they feel good.
但我认为那里有效的事情往往是人们最喜欢的事情之一，因为他们可以进去，他们得到他们的泵，他们感觉很好。
It's pretty solely focused on one muscle group.
它完全专注于一个肌肉群。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Is that the definition of a bro split, one-
这就是兄弟分裂的定义吗，一——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One muscle group a day.
每天一个肌肉群。
Yeah
是啊
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I see.
我明白了。
So it's very much geared towards strength and aesthetics, really maximizing-
所以它非常注重强度和美观，真正最大化——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
chest one day.
胸部有一天。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Probably more aesthetics than strength.
或许审美比力量更重要。
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, BetterHelp.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 BetterHelp。
BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online.
BetterHelp 提供由持证治疗师完全在线进行的专业治疗。
I've been doing therapy for a very long time, and I can tell you that it's a lot like physical workouts.
我从事治疗很长时间了，我可以告诉你，这很像体育锻炼。
There are days when I want to do it, and there are days when I don't want to do it.
有想做的日子，也有不想做的日子。
But when I finish a therapy session, every single time, I come away feeling better and knowing that the time was well spent.
但当我完成一次治疗后，每一次，我都会感觉好多了，并且知道我的时间花得很值。
And typically when I finish therapy, I come away with a valuable insight or new perspective on something I'm working through, whether that's with work, with relationships, in my personal life, or simply in my relationship with myself.
通常，当我完成治疗时，我会对我正在经历的事情产生宝贵的见解或新的视角，无论是工作、人际关系、我的个人生活，还是仅仅是我与自己的关系。
There's just so much benefit that comes through effective therapy.
有效的治疗可以带来很多好处。
With BetterHelp, they make it very easy to find an expert therapist who can help provide the benefits that come from effective therapy.
通过 BetterHelp，他们可以很容易地找到可以帮助提供有效治疗带来的好处的专家治疗师。
And it works.
它有效。
BetterHelp has an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for its live sessions based on over 1.7 million client reviews.
根据超过 170 万条客户评论，BetterHelp 的现场会议平均评分为 4.9 分（满分 5 分）。
Also, because BetterHelp is done entirely online, it's extremely time efficient.
此外，由于 BetterHelp 完全在线完成，因此非常省时。
There's no driving to a therapist's office, looking for parking, et cetera.
无需开车去治疗师办公室、寻找停车位等。
If you'd like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month.
如果您想尝试 BetterHelp，请访问 betterhelp.com/huberman，第一个月可享受 10% 的折扣。
Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman.
再说一次，这是 betterhelp.com/huberman。
In terms of the mixing up of cardiovascular training and resistance training, same day, different day, which one should come first?
就心血管训练和阻力训练的混合而言，同一天、不同天，哪个应该先进行？
Which one should come second?
哪一个应该排在第二位？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So again, I think that the bare minimum is probably twice a week in terms of cardiovascular, if you want to have some semblance of cardiovascular conditioning.
所以，我再次认为，如果你想对心血管进行一些类似的调理，就心血管而言，最低限度可能是每周两次。
But I think most people who actually need it more or want to pursue it more than that are going to need more time to do that.
但我认为大多数真正需要它或想要更多追求它的人将需要更多时间来做到这一点。
So, at some point, it can't just be relegated to a day off, or a day off from the weight training workouts.
因此，在某些时候，它不能仅仅被降级为休息一天，或者从重量训练中休息一天。
So at some point, it has to occur on the same day.
所以在某个时候，它必须发生在同一天。
And in that case, I just like to put it at the end of the workout, because you don't want to in any way compromise the weight training workout.
在这种情况下，我只是想把它放在锻炼的最后，因为你不想以任何方式妥协重量训练。
The intensity of those workouts is important.
这些锻炼的强度很重要。
I just like to put that at the end, realizing that even if my effort level is lower, my output is lower, if it's still placing a demand on my cardiac output to get that conditioning effect because I'm fatigued, it still has a demand on my cardiac output.
我只是想把它放在最后，意识到即使我的努力水平较低，我的输出量也较低，如果它仍然对我的心输出量提出要求以获得调节效果，因为我很疲劳，它仍然对我的心输出量有要求。
So it's still achieving its goal, but it didn't interfere with my main goal of being able to increase my performance in the gym.
所以它仍然实现了它的目标，但它并没有干扰我提高健身房表现的主要目标。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And in terms of the form of cardiovascular training, I've seen you do a number of, I have to say, very impressive high-intensity interval type work rather than on the treadmill or out jogging for 30, 45 minutes.
就心血管训练的形式而言，我不得不说，我看到你做了很多令人印象深刻的高强度间歇式训练，而不是在跑步机上或户外慢跑 30、45 分钟。
Is that because you prefer higher intensity, higher heart rate type training?
这是因为您更喜欢高强度、高心率类型的训练吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If we could blend function across these realms and not have such a delineation between this is my weight training and this is my conditioning, but figure out a way to blend them together, I always think that you've got a better opportunity to get that more well-rounded result.
如果我们能够混合这些领域的功能，而不是在这是我的重量训练和这是我的体能训练之间进行这样的划分，而是找到一种方法将它们混合在一起，我总是认为你有更好的机会获得更全面的结果。
And I like to kind of mix up that straight conditioning work and also some of the footwork drills.
我喜欢将直接的体能训练和一些步法练习混合起来。
We have some high expectations for guys that come into our programs to just do some footwork drills.
我们对参加我们项目只是进行一些步法练习的人抱有很高的期望。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Like ladders.
就像梯子一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like ladders or line drills or something.
比如梯子或者线钻之类的。
And you know what happens?
你知道会发生什么吗？
People become intrigued and interested, like, "I haven't tried this since high school." And they become interested in just the challenge of it, and then as we become almost distracted by the challenge, we're now finding ourselves conditioning.
人们变得好奇和感兴趣，比如，“自从高中以来我就没有尝试过这个”。他们只对挑战感兴趣，然后当我们几乎被挑战分散注意力时，我们现在发现自己处于调节状态。
And I always think that's an important part, that sometimes you've got to draw people in to show them what they might be interested in.
我一直认为这是一个重要的部分，有时你必须吸引人们参与进来，向他们展示他们可能感兴趣的东西。
And from the output or the effect of it, I just think that when you're able to still maintain some of that strength training into the exercise, so as you mentioned, let's say I'm doing some kind of a pushup or a burpee, there is an anaerobic component to that that is going to be helpful, rather than just walking or just jogging.
从输出或效果来看，我只是认为，当你仍然能够在锻炼中保持一些力量训练时，正如你提到的，假设我正在做某种俯卧撑或波比跳，其中有一个无氧成分会有所帮助，而不仅仅是步行或慢跑。
Not to say that that isn't an effective means for strict cardiac conditioning.
这并不是说这不是严格心脏调理的有效手段。
It's one of the ways that we've had for centuries to do it.
这是我们几个世纪以来一直采用的方法之一。
But I just think that if we can blend it, then it becomes maybe a little bit more interesting, and you get some of those crossover benefits, and it doesn't become so segmented in terms of what we're trying to do.
但我只是认为，如果我们可以将它混合起来，那么它可能会变得更有趣一点，并且你会得到一些交叉的好处，并且就我们正在尝试做的事情而言，它不会变得如此细分。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
One of the most important things I learned from you over the years was that if you can flex your bicep to the point where it hurts a little bit, like it almost feels like a cramp, or you can flex your calf to the point where it really cramps up a little bit, almost feels like it's knotting up, that's a pretty good indication that you're going to be able to stimulate that muscle well under load if you're doing the movement properly.
多年来我从你那里学到的最重要的事情之一是，如果你可以弯曲你的二头肌到有点痛的程度，就像感觉抽筋一样，或者你可以弯曲你的小腿到真的有点抽筋的程度，几乎感觉像是打结，这是一个很好的迹象，表明如果你正确地做这个动作，你将能够在负载下很好地刺激那块肌肉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
How did you arrive at this kind of cramp test, the Cavalier test, as I'll call it?
您是如何进行这种抽筋测试（我称之为骑士测试）的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
During my workouts, even as a young kid just starting out, I wanted to know what was supposed to be doing the work.
在我的锻炼过程中，即使作为一个刚开始锻炼的小孩子，我也想知道应该做什么工作。
Once you do that and you start to seek that out and say, "Okay, well, if the bicep is what's supposed to be doing the work, then I want to make sure the bicep's doing the work." So I would seek out ways to make that happen better.
一旦你这样做了，你就开始寻找并说：“好吧，好吧，如果二头肌应该做这个工作，那么我想确保二头肌正在做这个工作。”所以我会寻找方法让这一切变得更好。
And when I was able to do that, I could feel the stronger contraction.
当我能够做到这一点时，我能感觉到更强烈的收缩。
I was no visionary.
我没有远见。
I just felt like I knew that that was going to be better for me if the muscle I was trying to grow was being stressed more.
我只是觉得我知道如果我想要增长的肌肉受到更大的压力，那对我来说会更好。
When I was attempting to do this across different exercises, I would notice that what I could do potentially on a curl where my arm is up, where you asked me to flex my bicep, that position, I couldn't do if I was doing a concentration curl, or I couldn't carry over to a cable curl.
当我尝试在不同的练习中做到这一点时，我会注意到，在我的手臂向上的弯举中，我可以做的事情，你要求我弯曲我的二头肌，那个位置，如果我做集中弯举，我就做不到，或者我无法继续进行绳索弯举。
And that shouldn't really change, because the function is still largely the same.
这应该不会真正改变，因为功能仍然基本相同。
There's still elbow flexion, there's still supination.
仍然有肘部弯曲，仍然有旋后。
Why am I not able to do it there?
为什么我在那里做不到？
And that's when it sort of clued into me that your mind-muscle connection on not just your mind with one muscle, but on every exercise, matters, and it varies from exercise to exercise.
就在那时，我突然意识到，你的思想与肌肉的联系不仅在你的思想与一块肌肉上，而且在每一项练习中都很重要，而且它因运动而异。
There's a term I like to call muscularity, which is a difference.
我喜欢用一个术语来称呼肌肉发达，这是一种差异。
It's the level of sort of resting tone in the muscle.
这是肌肉的静息张力水平。
That improves dramatically.
这显着改善。
If you can learn how to just start to engage that muscle better, the muscularity, the resting tone of that muscle is harder, it's more alive.
如果你能学会如何开始更好地调动那块肌肉，那块肌肉的肌肉强度和静息张力就会更强，更有活力。
That's all driven from being able to connect better neurologically with the muscle that you're trying to train.
这一切都是因为能够在神经学上更好地连接你要训练的肌肉。
When you're trying to go and create muscle hypertrophy, or even this muscularity that I talk about, you need to seek ways to make it feel more uncomfortable.
当你试图创造肌肉肥大，甚至是我所说的肌肉发达时，你需要寻找方法让它感觉更不舒服。
If you don't feel the discomfort, then you're doing something wrong.
如果你没有感觉到不适，那么你就做错了。
And I struggle to this day on certain muscle groups to still do that, even knowing what I'm trying to work.
直到今天，我仍然在某些肌肉群上努力做到这一点，即使我知道我正在努力做什么。
It's very difficult for some muscles and for certain people to do this on certain muscles.
对于某些肌肉和某些人来说，在某些肌肉上做到这一点是非常困难的。
But as you mentioned, practice does help, and the more you become consistent and deliberate with what you're trying to do, the more of a result you actually get.
但正如你提到的，练习确实有帮助，而且你对你想做的事情越一致和深思熟虑，你实际得到的结果就越多。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
How do you assess recovery at the local level, meaning at the level of the muscles?
您如何评估局部水平（即肌肉水平）的恢复情况？
So we'll talk about soreness and getting better, stronger, more repetitions, et cetera.
因此，我们将讨论酸痛以及变得更好、更强、更多重复等等。
And then at the systemic level, the level of the nervous system.
然后是全身层面，神经系统层面。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Different muscles recover at different rates.
不同的肌肉以不同的速度恢复。
You might have a bicep that's able to be trained that can be trained again the next day, and then the next day, and then maybe you need a day off after that.
你的二头肌可能可以接受训练，第二天可以再次训练，然后第二天，然后也许你需要休息一天。
That can vary from person to person for sure, and it can vary from muscle to muscle in that person over the course of time.
这肯定会因人而异，并且随着时间的推移，该人的肌肉也会有所不同。
As you mentioned, because the systemic recovery is going to impact all those muscles anyway, but let's say you're systemically recovering Every muscle itself is going to have a recovery rate, and I think that using muscle soreness as a guideline for that is one of the only tools we have in terms of the local level.
正如你所提到的，因为无论如何，系统性恢复都会影响所有这些肌肉，但假设你正在系统性恢复，每块肌肉本身都会有一个恢复率，我认为使用肌肉酸痛作为指导方针是我们在局部水平上拥有的唯一工具之一。
Well, that's the one that most people can relate to and easily identify, and then use that as a guideline.
嗯，这是大多数人都能理解并容易识别的，然后将其作为指导方针。
And if you're training when you're really sore, it's probably not a great idea.
如果你在非常酸痛的情况下进行训练，这可能不是一个好主意。
But as far as the systemic recovery, grip strength is very much tied to performance and recovery.
但就全身恢复而言，握力与表现和恢复密切相关。
And when I was at the Mets, we used to actually take grip strength measurements as a baseline in spring training all the time.
当我在大都会队时，我们实际上一直将握力测量作为春季训练的基线。
Now, obviously, as a baseball player, you're gripping a bat.
现在，显然，作为一名棒球运动员，你正在握着球棒。
You're a pitcher, you're gripping a ball.
你是一名投手，你正在抓球。
Having good grip strength is important, so if we've noticed somebody had a very weak grip, it's just a good focal point of a specialized training component for their program.
拥有良好的握力很重要，因此，如果我们注意到某人的握力非常弱，那么这只是他们计划的专门训练部分的一个很好的焦点。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Did you do this every day with those guys?
你每天都和那些家伙一起这样做吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. In spring training, we'd do sort of a baseline entry-level measurement, and then we would measure it throughout the season, maybe once every two weeks or three weeks.
不会。在春季训练中，我们会进行某种基线入门级测量，然后我们会在整个赛季中进行测量，也许每两周或三周一次。
And the idea there was to measure the recovery.
其想法是衡量复苏情况。
We have found that with one of those scales, those old-fashioned bathroom scales, it's a great tool for just squeezing the scale with your hands and seeing what type of output you could get.
我们发现，对于其中一种秤，那些老式的浴室秤，它是一个很好的工具，只需用手挤压秤，看看可以获得什么类型的输出。
Imagine the last time you were sick, or just try this the next time you wake up in the morning.
想象一下您上次生病是什么时候，或者下次早上醒来时尝试一下。
When you first wake up in the morning, you're still groggy.
当你早上第一次醒来时，你仍然昏昏沉沉。
Try to squeeze your hand.
尝试挤压你的手。
Try to make a fist as hard as you can.
尽量用力握拳。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're going to sit there angry at your fist because it won't contract as hard as you know it can.
你会坐在那里对你的拳头感到愤怒，因为它不会像你知道的那样收缩得那么厉害。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You don't have the ability to just create the output, and that is because in that state, you're still sleepy.
你没有能力只创建输出，那是因为在那种状态下，你仍然很困。
You're still fatigued.
你还是很累。
You're not even awake at the whole level at this point.
此时你甚至还没有完全清醒。
So when you start to measure that on a daily basis, you can get a pretty good sense of where you're at.
因此，当您开始每天进行测量时，您可以很好地了解自己所处的位置。
And I think when people start to see a drop-off of 10% or so, or even greater of their grip output, you really should skip the gym that day because I don't think there's much you're going to do there that's going to be that beneficial, even if it is the day to train legs or whatever day it is.
我认为，当人们开始看到握力输出下降 10% 左右，甚至更大时，你真的应该在那天跳过健身房，因为我认为你不会在那里做太多有益的事情，即使那天是训练腿部的日子或任何一天。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There certainly are more sophisticated tools, too, as a PT.
作为 PT，当然还有更复杂的工具。
We have hand grip dynamometers, and we can measure one side at a time, but that comes at a cost.
我们有手持式测力计，我们可以一次测量一侧，但这是有代价的。
Those are pretty expensive devices.
这些都是相当昂贵的设备。
Listen, if you were an athlete, the 200, 300 bucks it costs to have one of those would be well worth the added investment.
听着，如果你是一名运动员，花 200、300 美元购买其中一件就非常值得额外投资。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Helix Sleep.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 Helix Sleep。
Helix Sleep makes mattresses and pillows that are customized to your unique sleep needs.
Helix Sleep 生产根据您独特的睡眠需求定制的床垫和枕头。
Now, I've spoken many times before on this and on other podcasts about the fact that getting a great night's sleep is the foundation of mental health, physical health, and performance.
现在，我之前曾多次在这个播客和其他播客上谈到这样一个事实：睡个好觉是心理健康、身体健康和表现的基础。
When we aren't getting great sleep on a consistent basis, everything suffers, and when we are sleeping well and enough, our mental health, physical health, and performance in all endeavors improve markedly.
当我们不能持续获得良好的睡眠时，一切都会受到影响，而当我们睡眠良好且充足时，我们的心理健康、身体健康和所有努力的表现都会显着改善。
Now, the mattress you sleep on makes a huge difference in the quality of sleep that you get each night.
现在，您所睡的床垫会对您每晚的睡眠质量产生巨大影响。
How soft it is or how firm it is all play into your comfort and need to be tailored to your unique sleep needs.
它的柔软度或硬度都会影响您的舒适度，并且需要根据您独特的睡眠需求进行定制。
If you go to the Helix website, you can take a brief two-minute quiz, and it will ask you questions such as, do you sleep on your back, your side, or your stomach?
如果你访问 Helix 网站，你可以做一个两分钟的简短测验，它会问你一些问题，比如你是仰卧、侧卧还是俯卧？
Maybe you know, maybe you don't.
也许你知道，也许你不知道。
Do you tend to run hot or cold during the night?
你晚上容易感到热还是冷？
Things of that sort.
诸如此类的事情。
You answer those questions, and Helix will match you to the ideal mattress for you.
您回答这些问题，Helix 将为您匹配理想的床垫。
For me, that turned out to be the Dusk, D-U-S-K, mattress.
对我来说，这就是 Dusk、D-U-S-K 床垫。
I've been sleeping on a Dusk mattress for more than four years now, and it's been far and away the best sleep that I've ever had.
我已经在 Dusk 床垫上睡了四年多了，这无疑是我睡过的最好的睡眠。
If you'd like to try Helix, you can go to helixsleep.com/huberman, take that two-minute sleep quiz, and Helix will match you to a mattress that's customized for you.
如果您想尝试 Helix，可以访问 helixsleep.com/huberman，参加两分钟的睡眠测验，Helix 将为您匹配专为您定制的床垫。
Right now, Helix is giving up to 27% off their entire site.
目前，Helix 整个网站提供高达 27% 的折扣。
Helix has also teamed up with TrueMed, which allows you to use your HSA, FSA dollars to shop Helix's award-winning mattresses.
Helix 还与 TrueMed 合作，允许您使用 HSA、FSA 美元购买 Helix 屡获殊荣的床垫。
Again, that's helixsleep.com/huberman to get up to 27% off.
再次强调，helixsleep.com/huberman 提供高达 27% 的折扣。
When's the best time to stretch for particular types of results?
为了获得特定类型的结果而进行伸展运动的最佳时间是什么时候？
And maybe you could define some of the different types of stretching.
也许你可以定义一些不同类型的拉伸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In general, the two basic forms of stretching are active stretching and passive stretching.
一般来说，拉伸的两种基本形式是主动拉伸和被动拉伸。
And your passive stretching is done with the goal of trying to create an increase in the flexibility of the muscle.
被动拉伸的目的是尝试增加肌肉的灵活性。
So whether you're actually increasing the length of that muscle, more so what you're doing is decreasing the resistance of that muscle to want to stay at a certain level of flexibility.
因此，无论你实际上是在增加肌肉的长度，还是在减少肌肉的阻力，以保持一定程度的灵活性。
When we can take the brakes off and allow that muscle to allow us more range of motion, we're inherently increasing flexibility without necessarily having to increase the length of that muscle.
当我们可以松开刹车并让肌肉有更大的运动范围时，我们本质上就增加了灵活性，而不必增加该肌肉的长度。
That is usually done at a time far away from your workout because there is a period of recalibration that is needed after doing this because you're disrupting the length-tension relationship of the muscle that causes you to not necessarily be able to rely on these, I've talked about before, stored motor engrams in your mind in terms of this is the pattern for how I swing a golf club, say.
这通常是在远离锻炼的时间完成的，因为这样做之后需要一段时间的重新校准，因为你破坏了肌肉的长度-张力关系，导致你不一定能够依赖这些，我之前谈到过，在你的脑海中存储运动印记，这就是我挥动高尔夫球杆的模式。
And now introducing a little bit of flexibility or added flexibility or range because of the stretching I did before, it takes maybe a hole or two or three to match up again.
现在引入一点灵活性或增加灵活性或范围，因为我之前做过拉伸，可能需要一个或两个或三个孔才能再次匹配。
Oh, this is what he's trying to do, that golf swing thing that I remembered again.
哦，这就是他想做的事，我又想起了高尔夫挥杆的事情。
It's not remembering every component, like I have to bend my right wrist back 10 degrees, and then I have to bend my elbow, and I have to-- Your body stores these patterns for motor efficiency.
它不会记住每个组件，比如我必须将右手腕向后弯曲 10 度，然后我必须弯曲我的肘部，而且我必须——你的身体会存储这些模式以提高运动效率。
And when I have to start matching up that stored pattern with what's feeling new because of the increased range, I can impair performance.
当我必须开始将存储的模式与由于范围增加而感觉新的模式相匹配时，我可能会损害性能。
And again, it could happen even in a gym workout where you're talking about your first, second set, third set, where maybe the repercussions aren't as big because I'll just do a few extra sets.
再说一遍，即使在健身房锻炼中，你正在谈论你的第一组、第二组、第三组，这种情况也可能发生，也许影响不会那么大，因为我只会多做几组。
But in performance, if you screw up your first three rounds, you're playing on a PGA Tour, and you shoot, you're six over after three, you're done .
但在表现方面，如果你搞砸了前三轮，那么你就是在参加美巡赛，而你击球后，三轮过后你的成绩是高于标准杆六杆，你就完蛋了。
So we relegate that, as I mentioned, towards the end of the day when it's not going to impact performance, but even maybe have the additional benefit of creating the feeling of length or the increase or decrease in resistance to this length, at a time when I know my body is going to try to tend to heal and heal shorter.
因此，正如我所提到的，我们将其降级到一天结束时，它不会影响表现，但甚至可能会带来额外的好处，即创造长度的感觉或增加或减少对此长度的抵抗力，此时我知道我的身体将尝试愈合并愈合得更短。
Never longer, but heal shorter.
不会变长，但会愈合得更短。
So if I can introduce a little bit of that extra length or decreased resistance to that length, it's a better time to do it.
因此，如果我可以引入一点额外的长度或减少对该长度的阻力，那么现在是更好的时机。
So I think it promotes a A better recovery.
所以我认为它可以促进更好的恢复。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I'm intrigued by this concept of heal shorter.
我对愈合时间缩短的概念很感兴趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So part of the healing and recovery process means a shortening of the muscles.
因此，愈合和恢复过程的一部分意味着肌肉的缩短。
This is the tensing up in sleep.
这就是睡眠中的紧张。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Could you elaborate just a bit on that?
您能详细说明一下吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Basically, what's been shown is that when the repair process, muscular repair from, let's say, strength training during the day, the repair process usually results in a muscle that is slightly shorter rather than increased in length.
基本上，已经表明的是，当修复过程中，比如说，白天的力量训练中的肌肉修复时，修复过程通常会导致肌肉稍微变短，而不是增加长度。
Muscles prefer to sort of ratchet their way down into that contraction.
肌肉更喜欢逐渐向下收缩。
So when you're sleeping, it tends to err on the side of shorter rather than longer, when ideally we don't really want that.
因此，当你睡觉时，往往会选择睡得更短而不是更长，但理想情况下我们并不真正想要这样。
We want to maintain as much of that length, because with more length, we actually have more leverage.
我们希望保持尽可能多的长度，因为长度越长，我们实际上就有更多的影响力。
So again, it's just making it a conscious choice to do it at a time of the day that makes a little bit more sense.
再说一次，这只是让它成为一种有意识的选择，在一天中更有意义的时间去做这件事。
Dynamic stretching is really not done for that purpose of trying to create any type of increasing the potential length, as you said, of the muscle, but more so the readiness of the muscle to perform, and increasing, exploring the ends of that range of motion in a more dynamic way, so you're not hanging out there and disrupting that length-tension relationship, but just sort of touching the ends of those barriers so that when you feel movement again, it feels looser, it feels more ready.
正如你所说，动态拉伸实际上并不是为了试图创造任何类型的增加肌肉的潜在长度，而是为了让肌肉做好执行的准备，并以更动态的方式增加、探索运动范围的末端，所以你不会在那里闲逛并破坏长度-张力关系，而只是触摸这些障碍的末端，这样当你再次感觉到运动时，就会感觉更放松，感觉更准备好了。
And obviously at the same time, warming up, blood flow, all the benefits we get from just warming up in general.
显然，与此同时，热身、血液流动，以及我们从热身中获得的所有好处。
So that's the series you've probably seen a bunch of times, but leg swings, and butt kicks, and walking lunges, and those are the drills that people will do prior to training that are both excitatory in terms of just the nervous system, but also helpful for just the general warm up the body because of the blood flow.
这就是你可能已经看过很多次的系列，但是腿部摆动、踢屁股和弓步行走，这些都是人们在训练之前会做的练习，这些练习既可以刺激神经系统，也有助于由于血液流动而对身体进行总体热身。
But from a muscle readiness standpoint, not impairing the performance, while at the same time exploring the increased ranges.
但从肌肉准备的角度来看，不会损害表现，同时探索增加的范围。
When I was working with Antonio Brown, I remember he would spend 20 minutes, 30 minutes on all dynamic work, and I've never seen anybody spend that long on their dynamic work.
当我和安东尼奥·布朗一起工作时，我记得他会花20分钟、30分钟在所有动态工作上，而我从未见过有人在动态工作上花费那么长时间。
But he said he just didn't feel right and ready to go unless he did a lot of that.
但他说，除非他做了很多这样的事情，否则他只是感觉不太好，没有准备好出发。
And his dynamic stretching routine would be a workout for most everybody.
他的动态伸展运动适合大多数人。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
There's one exercise and one particular motion that I'd like to discuss for a moment, because I believe that learning about this cautionary note from you is one of the reasons that I've maintained steady training for 30 years with no major injury, knock on wood.
我想暂时讨论一下一项练习和一项特别的动议，因为我相信从您那里得知这一警告是我 30 年来一直保持稳定训练而没有遭受重大伤害的原因之一。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And that's the upright row.
这就是直立的行。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I learned from you that the upright row compromises some important aspects of our shoulder mechanics and can be actually sort of a dangerous movement in some ways.
我从你那里了解到，直立划船会损害我们肩部力学的一些重要方面，并且在某些方面实际上可能是一种危险的运动。
But so I've always made it a point now, on the basis of this advice, to really strive for external rotation.
但基于这个建议，我现在一直强调要真正努力进行外部轮换。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Please tell us about internal, external rotation, why this is so important, not just for weight training, but as in terms of posture and mechanics and not looking like a melted candle or partially melted candle.
请告诉我们有关内部旋转、外部旋转的信息，为什么这如此重要，不仅对于重量训练，而且对于姿势和力学而言，并且看起来不像熔化的蜡烛或部分熔化的蜡烛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The shoulder has the most mobility in the body of any joint, but it's also got the least stability, right?
在身体的所有关节中，肩膀的活动性最大，但稳定性也最差，对吧？
There's always that trade-off of mobility and stability.
总是需要在移动性和稳定性之间进行权衡。
So your stability comes from certain muscle groups, and one of the ones that the only muscle group that actually externally rotates the shoulder is going to be the rotator cuff, okay?
所以你的稳定性来自于某些肌肉群，其中唯一真正使肩膀外旋的肌肉群就是肩袖，好吗？
And unless you are devoted to training through external rotation and exercises that are going to externally rotate the shoulder, you're not training that function.
除非您致力于通过外旋和使肩部外旋的练习进行训练，否则您就没有训练该功能。
And it's so easy for us in everyday life, especially those that aren't training, to not ever really undergo any of those stresses that could be beneficial to counteracting what happens freely and naturally, which is internal rotation.
对于我们来说，在日常生活中，尤其是那些没有接受训练的人，很容易不会真正承受任何可能有利于抵消自由和自然发生的压力，即内旋。
So when you think about the imbalance created just by nature and how we live our lives, internal rotation far, far, far outweighs external rotation, so you need to address it.
因此，当您考虑自然造成的不平衡以及我们的生活方式时，内部旋转远远超过外部旋转，因此您需要解决它。
And the reason why you need to address it is because you need to normalize those biomechanics of the shoulder if you want their long-term health.
你之所以需要解决这个问题，是因为如果你想要肩膀的长期健康，你就需要使肩部的生物力学正常化。
And one of the functions of the shoulder is to raise our arm up over our head.
肩膀的功能之一是将我们的手臂举过头顶。
And if we do that from an internally rotated position, we're going to have a higher likelihood of creating stress inside that joint.
如果我们从内部旋转位置做到这一点，我们将更有可能在该关节内部产生压力。
In order to get normal mechanics and free up the joint maximally inside, you need to externally rotate as you raise the arm up.
为了获得正常的力学效果并最大程度地释放内部关节，您需要在抬起手臂时向外旋转。
So if your muscles aren't firing and they're not necessarily as strong as the internal rotation bias that pulls them in, you're asking for trouble every time you do that.
因此，如果你的肌肉没有活动，并且它们不一定像拉动它们的内旋偏压那么强大，那么每次你这样做都是在自找麻烦。
Well, this exercise is literally putting you in elevation and internal rotation, and if you were to walk into a PT office and someone said, "I think he's got impingement.
嗯，这个练习实际上是让你处于仰角和内旋状态，如果你走进物理治疗办公室，有人说：“我认为他有撞击症。
Will you diagnose him?" There's a test called a Hawkins Kennedy test, and I would put you in the position.
你会给他诊断吗？”有一个测试叫做霍金斯·肯尼迪测试，我会把你放在这个位置上。
I know we're not visible at this point through the podcast, but I'll put you in this position here, where I have your arm elevated and your hand pretty much under your chin, pushing downward on that to create that internal shoulder rotation.
我知道此时我们在播客中是看不到的，但我会让你处于这个位置，我将你的手臂举起，你的手几乎位于下巴下方，向下推以产生肩部内部旋转。
Pretty much the exact position that we're in when we're holding a bar in an upright row.
几乎就是我们拿着一根杠子直立时所处的位置。
Some will say, "Well, just don't go so high.
有些人会说：“好吧，别走那么高。
Go only up to the level of the chest." But you're still in this internally rotated position.
只到胸部的高度。”但你仍然处于这种内部旋转的位置。
The thing that I think frustrates me the most about the exercise is that I have an alternative, and the alternative does the same thing in terms of helping the muscles grow by simply fixing the biomechanics of the exercise, but just allowing the hands to go higher than the elbows.
我认为这项练习最让我沮丧的是我有一个替代方案，而替代方案通过简单地固定练习的生物力学来帮助肌肉生长，但只是让手高于肘部，从而起到同样的作用。
So instead of the elbows being higher than the hand, which drives you into internal rotation, if the elbow is lower than the hand, the hand being higher here, I'm in external rotation, and I could do something called a high pull and still get the same abduction of the arm and still get the same benefits of the shoulders, the delts, and the traps without having to undergo any of the stresses that would come from the somewhat awkward movement of an upright row.
因此，不是肘部高于手，这会驱使你进行内旋，而是如果肘部低于手，手在这里更高，我就处于外旋状态，我可以做一些称为高拉的动作，并且仍然获得相同的手臂外展，并且仍然获得肩膀、三角肌和斜方肌的相同好处，而不必承受任何因直立划船的有点尴尬的运动而产生的压力。
And people will argue, this is the way they argue, that, "I've done this for 30 years and I've never hurt myself." And I always say, "Yet."
人们会争论，这就是他们争论的方式，“我已经这样做了 30 年，而且我从未伤害过自己。”我总是说：“但是。”
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yet.
然而。
Hey, listen, the goal is to not hurt yourself, ever.
嘿，听着，我们的目标是永远不要伤害自己。
So even if you-- It's sort of like the ...
所以即使你——这有点像……
championship game.
冠军赛。
You might play the game of your life, but if you lose, you lost.
你可能会玩你一生的游戏，但如果你输了，你就输了。
And when you get into the end of the record books, you still lost.
当你进入记录簿的末尾时，你仍然失败了。
So even if you had the game of your life, you lost.
所以，即使你玩了一生中最精彩的游戏，你还是输了。
I don't care if you do it for 30 years, no pain, you're still doing it, and there's no pain.
我不在乎你是否做了30年，没有痛苦，你仍然这样做，没有痛苦。
I'm giving you an option that's going to give you the same results in the exercise that you're seeking, that's why you're doing the exercise, without the possibility of having the bad outcome come from it.
我给你一个选择，它会给你带来与你正在寻求的练习相同的结果，这就是你做这个练习的原因，而不可能产生不好的结果。
The body is like a mirror image.
身体就像一面镜子。
The hip is like the shoulder, right?
臀部就像肩膀一样，对吗？
The ankle is the wrist.
脚踝就是手腕。
The foot is the hand.
脚就是手。
The knee is the elbow.
膝盖就是肘部。
They're two hinge joints.
它们是两个铰链关节。
They function that way.
他们就是这样运作的。
Well, with the shoulder, you've got that mobility that comes from having all that freedom of motion, but the stability is lacking.
嗯，对于肩膀来说，你拥有来自运动自由度的灵活性，但缺乏稳定性。
Well, the same thing with the hip.
嗯，臀部也是一样。
You've got mobility, but if you don't fully stabilize it by training all of the muscles of the hip, and if you don't strengthen the external rotation of the hip, then you're going to have issues.
你有活动能力，但如果你没有通过训练臀部的所有肌肉来完全稳定它，如果你没有加强臀部的外旋，那么你就会遇到问题。
It's not biomechanically going to work the same way.
从生物力学角度来说，它的工作原理并不相同。
If you think of the body as a series of bands pulling in different directions at different levels of tension, you're being pulled into one direction or the other just by the balance of tension from one weak area to one dominantly tight area.
如果您将身体视为一系列以不同张力水平向不同方向拉动的带子，那么您只是通过从一个薄弱区域到一个主要紧张区域的张力平衡而被拉向一个方向或另一个方向。
And you need to make sure that you can sort of balance this out in order to eliminate some of the adaptations and compensations that happen.
您需要确保能够平衡这一点，以消除发生的一些适应和补偿。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
If you're a regular listener of the Huberman Lab podcast, you've no doubt heard me talk about the vitamin mineral probiotic drink AG1.
如果您是 Huberman Lab 播客的常客，您无疑听过我谈论过维生素矿物质益生菌饮料 AG1。
And if you've been on the fence about it, now's an awesome time to give it a try.
如果您一直对此持观望态度，那么现在正是尝试的好时机。
For the next few weeks, AG1 is giving away a full supplement package with your first subscription to AG1.
在接下来的几周内，AG1 将在您首次订阅 AG1 时赠送完整的补充包。
They're giving away a free bottle of vitamin D3K2, a bottle of omega-3 fish oil capsules, and a sample pack of the new sleep formula, AGZ, which by the way, is now the only sleep supplement I take.
他们免费赠送一瓶维生素 D3K2、一瓶 omega-3 鱼油胶囊和新睡眠配方 AGZ 样品包，顺便说一句，它是我现在唯一服用的睡眠补充剂。
It's fantastic.
太棒了。
My sleep on AGZ is out of this world good.
我在 AGZ 的睡眠质量非常好。
AGZ is a drink, so it eliminates the need to take a lot of pills.
AGZ 是一种饮料，因此无需服用大量药片。
It tastes great, and like I said, it has me sleeping incredibly well, waking up more refreshed than ever.
它味道好极了，就像我说的，它让我睡得非常好，醒来时比以往任何时候都精神焕发。
I absolutely love it.
我非常喜欢它。
Again, this is a limited time offer, so make sure to go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get started today.
再次强调，这是限时优惠，因此请务必立即访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 开始。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of the great tools that I picked up from your content, which has benefited I know a huge number of people is, I think I used to hold weights sometimes in the tips of my fingers-
我从你的内容中学到的一个很棒的工具，让我认识的很多人都受益匪浅，我想我曾经有时用指尖握住重物-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
as opposed to in the meat of the palm of my hands.
而不是在我手掌的肉里。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I had elbow pain.
而且我的肘部疼痛。
Turns out, toward the end of my pull-ups or my bicep work, I was letting the weight or the bar drift into my fingertips.
事实证明，在引体向上或二头肌训练快结束时，我让重量或杠铃飘到了我的指尖。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the mere shift to making sure that my knuckles were well over the bar, or that the weight was really in the meat of my palms, has completely ameliorated that, for reasons that you point out, and maybe you could just share with us why that is.
仅仅转移到确保我的指关节远在横杆上方，或者重量确实在我的手掌上，就完全改善了这一点，原因你指出了，也许你可以与我们分享为什么会这样。
When you grip a bar, whether it be through a curl or whether it be through...
当你握住杠铃时，无论是通过弯举还是通过...
And this is mostly pulling exercises because the tendency for the bar is going to be to fall out of your hand, not like with a pushing exercise, where you're pushing your hand into the bar, so on a bench press, say.
这主要是拉练习，因为杠铃可能会从你的手中掉下来，而不是像推练习那样，你将手推入杠铃，比如卧推。
That bar can drift just by gravity doing its thing, or fatigue of the hand grip strength, can start to drift further away towards the distal digits, right?
该杆可以仅通过重力作用而漂移，或者握力疲劳，可以开始向远端手指漂移得更远，对吧？
Through those last couple knuckles that we have on our hands.
通过我们手上的最后几个指关节。
Though our hand can still hold it there, the muscles are not equipped to handle those types of loads.
尽管我们的手仍然可以握住它，但肌肉不具备处理这些类型的负载的能力。
And it could start at dumbbell weight, 40 pounds, 30 pounds, even 25 pounds for some, depending upon their overall strength levels.
可以从哑铃重量开始，40 磅、30 磅，有些人甚至 25 磅，具体取决于他们的整体力量水平。
But then when you start to apply it to something like your body weight with a chin-up, right?
但是当你开始将它应用到诸如引体向上的体重之类的东西时，对吗？
Because that's natural for the bar to somewhat kind of float down towards your fingertips.
因为酒吧会自然地向您的指尖浮动。
And it actually is a little bit easier to perform the exercise with that sort of false grip, little hook grip at the end, because you're not going to engage the forearms into the exercise.
事实上，用那种假握法、最后的小钩握法来进行练习会更容易一些，因为你不会让前臂参与练习。
You're not going to start pulling down.
你不会开始下拉。
But at the same time, while it could help you to perform them better by getting the back more activated, if you have weakness in these muscles, because it's not a thing that happens to every- ...
但与此同时，虽然它可以通过让背部更加活跃来帮助你更好地完成这些动作，但如果你这些肌肉无力，因为这不是每个人都会发生的事情……
It's not one of those upright row type things where I think this is happening to everybody.
我认为这不是每个人都会发生的直立划船类型的事情之一。
This is happening to people that have these inherent weaknesses in these muscles, or haven't done enough of the gripping in the meat of the hand for long enough.
这种情况发生在那些肌肉有这些固有弱点的人身上，或者没有足够长的时间抓握手部的肉的人身上。
But it starts to put that stress on these muscles that are ill-equipped to do this, and to handle this, and it starts to, particularly on that fourth finger, which is part of the muscle we call the FDS, the flexor digitorum, that is just too much for it to handle.
但它开始给这些肌肉施加压力，而这些肌肉不具备执行此操作和处理此操作的能力，而且它开始施加压力，特别是无名指，它是我们称为 FDS 的肌肉的一部分，即指屈肌，这对它来说处理能力太大了。
And that comes all the way down and meets right at the medial elbow, right on that spot that you can say feels like someone's knifing you right in that medial elbow.
一直向下，在肘部内侧相遇，就在那个地方，你可以说感觉就像有人在肘部内侧刀割你一样。
And medial epicondylitis, or they call it golfer's elbow, is something that a lot of us deal with in the gym.
内上髁炎，或者他们称之为高尔夫球手肘，是我们很多人在健身房遇到的问题。
It's one of the most common inflammatory conditions people get from the gym, and it all comes from this positioning of the dumbbell or barbell or hand on a pull-up bar over time.
这是人们在健身房中最常见的炎症性疾病之一，而这一切都源于哑铃或杠铃或手在引体向上杆上的这种位置随着时间的推移。
So the easiest thing to do is just grip deeper so that what you're doing is you're using more leverage from the palm to encapsulate the bar or the dumbbell or whatever, and you're not putting that pressure really distally, right on that last digit, because that's where that FDS muscle is most strained.
因此，最简单的方法就是握得更深，这样你就可以利用手掌的更多杠杆作用来包住杠铃或哑铃或其他物体，并且你不会将压力真正施加到远端，就在最后一个数字上，因为那是 FDS 肌肉最紧张的地方。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So you're just almost eliminating that from the equation.
所以你几乎从等式中消除了它。
And it's one of those exercises that the load can exceed its capacity pretty quickly, so that maybe it's only capable of handling 30 pounds, and then when you're doing a chin-up and it goes and it drifts so far that it's...
这是一种负荷很快就会超过其承受能力的练习，所以它可能只能承受 30 磅的重量，然后当你做引体向上时，它会漂移得很远，以至于……
Now, let's say you're a 200-pound guy.
现在，假设您是一个 200 磅重的人。
You've got, let's say, 100 pounds through one arm and 100 pounds, this is simplified math that obviously is offset by other muscles, but 100 pounds through one arm, 100 pounds through the other arm.
比方说，一只手臂承受 100 磅的重量，另一只手臂承受 100 磅的重量，这是简化的数学计算，显然会被其他肌肉抵消，但一只手臂承受 100 磅，另一只手臂承受 100 磅。
Well, 100 pounds off of a muscle that can handle 30, it's not going to take many repetitions to strain it And you're going to feel that maybe by the time that set's over, or certainly by the time that workout's over, or the next day you wake up and you've got that notable stabbing pain.
嗯，如果一块可以承受 30 磅的肌肉减掉 100 磅，那么不需要多次重复就能拉紧它，你会感觉到也许在一组结束时，或者肯定是在锻炼结束时，或者第二天你醒来时，你会感到明显的刺痛。
Whenever someone feels that, the best thing would be to determine, okay, what exercises was I doing that were pulling, and where the bar could have drifted deeper into, farther from the meat of my palm into my fingers, and figure out a way to deepen that grip.
每当有人有这种感觉时，最好的办法就是确定，好吧，我做了哪些拉力练习，以及杠铃可以深入到哪里，远离我的手掌肉到我的手指，并找到一种方法来加深这种握力。
When that happens, though, the best thing to do with most of these inflammatory conditions is not do any of that stuff for a little while.
然而，当这种情况发生时，对于大多数炎症状况，最好的办法就是暂时不要做任何这些事情。
There's so many other options that you can do that will train similar muscles or even the same motion and not cause that stress.
您可以采取许多其他选择来训练相似的肌肉甚至相同的动作，而不会造成压力。
So I mean, a cable curl would be much easier to do that on than, let's say, a chin-up where you don't have the control over the weight like you do by moving a pin on a stack.
所以我的意思是，绳索弯举比引体向上更容易做到这一点，在引体向上中你无法像通过移动桩上的针那样控制重量。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I do have a question about precision of record keeping.
我确实对记录保存的准确性有疑问。
Do you keep a training journal?
你保留培训日记吗？
Do you recommend people keep training journals?
您建议人们保留培训日记吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think that anything you can do to increase your awareness of your performance and also give yourself some objective goal.
我认为你可以做任何事情来提高你对自己表现的认识，并给自己一些客观的目标。
Whenever we have an objective goal, it's a lot easier to actually obtain it.
每当我们有了客观目标时，实际实现它就会容易得多。
When you're just there to get a pump and you're just there to lift how you feel that day, you have to be incredibly disciplined in all other aspects of your workout in order to make that effective.
当你只是为了打气、提升当天的感觉时，你必须在锻炼的所有其他方面都严格遵守纪律，才能发挥作用。
Anything you can do to increase your awareness of it and keep you on track with that is like, I'm endorsing fully.
任何你可以做的事情来提高你的意识并让你保持在正轨上，我完全赞同。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Maybe we could talk about principles around nutrition.
也许我们可以谈谈营养原则。
What tends to work, what tends not to work?
什么往往有效，什么往往无效？
And how should we think about nutrition?
我们应该如何考虑营养？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
My approach is I've always been sort of a low sugar, lower fat guy.
我的方法是我一直是一个低糖、低脂肪的人。
That is the best approach for, I believe, again, in my opinion, personally, for the overall big picture.
我个人认为，对于整体大局来说，这是最好的方法。
Because though the people can take exclusionary approaches to nutrition in taking carbs out or eating only fats and proteins or-- Again, I'm not saying it doesn't work for you, and if it's the first thing that actually allowed you to gain control of your nutrition to the point where you actually saw results and got to a healthier weight, then I always say then do it.
因为尽管人们可以采取排除性的营养方法，不吃碳水化合物或只吃脂肪和蛋白质，或者——再说一遍，我并不是说这对你不起作用，如果这是第一个真正让你能够控制你的营养，达到你真正看到结果并达到更健康体重的程度，那么我总是说那就这样做。
Then do it, but just make sure it's something you can do forever and doesn't bring upon other repercussions.
然后就去做，但要确保它是你可以永远做的事情，并且不会带来其他影响。
I think that non-exclusionary approaches to diets are the most sustainable for the rest of your life.
我认为非排他性的饮食方法对于你的余生来说是最可持续的。
And all I'm interested in from a nutrition standpoint is something that's sustainable.
从营养的角度来看，我感兴趣的是可持续的东西。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
In terms of what you do eat-
就你吃的东西而言——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
how do you structure that?
你如何构建它？
In terms of when you look down at a plate, you've done these-
就当你低头看盘子时，你已经做了这些——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah
是啊
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
you described this before, but I think it's just a beautifully simple description because I think a lot of people don't want to do calorie counting-
你之前描述过这一点，但我认为这只是一个非常简单的描述，因为我认为很多人不想计算卡路里 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
and all this and-
而这一切以及——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have what I call a plate method, and it's just simple because it works for me.
我有一种所谓的平板法，它很简单，因为它对我有用。
When you have your plate, you just simply look at it as like a clock, right?
当你拿到盘子时，你只是简单地把它看成一个时钟，对吗？
And if you just make a 9:20 on the clock, so one arm goes over to the nine and one of the arms goes over to 20, because then you're going to make a line towards 12 o'clock too.
如果你只是在时钟上划出 9 点 20 分，那么一只手臂就会走到 9 点，另一只手臂就会走到 20 点，因为这样你也会在 12 点钟方向排队。
And the largest portion is going to be your fibrous carbohydrates.
最大的部分将是纤维碳水化合物。
So that's the green vegetables, right?
这就是绿色蔬菜，对吗？
So whether it be broccoli or Brussels sprouts or asparagus, those are the ones that give us a lot of the micronutrients we need.
因此，无论是西兰花、球芽甘蓝还是芦笋，这些都能为我们提供大量所需的微量营养素。
They're the ones that are generally accepted as more healthy.
它们被普遍认为更健康。
And they're also going to provide the fiber that's going to be both beneficial in terms of its impact on insulin and also just through filling you up, right?
他们还将提供纤维，这种纤维不仅对胰岛素有好处，而且还能让你吃饱，对吗？
And then I take the next largest portion of that, and I devote that towards protein.
然后我将其中的第二大部分用于蛋白质。
And I think it's really important, especially for anybody active.
我认为这非常重要，尤其是对于任何活跃的人来说。
The more active you are, the more you embark on trying to build muscle, you're going to need to have protein in every meal.
你越活跃，你就越开始尝试锻炼肌肉，你每顿饭都需要含有蛋白质。
So I have that.
所以我有那个。
And again, we're talking cleaner sources of protein, but you'll never find boiled chicken on my plate.
再说一遍，我们谈论的是更清洁的蛋白质来源，但你永远不会在我的盘子里找到煮鸡肉。
I'll have some sort of fish or chicken, but it will be cooked in a way that's like it's got maybe some sauce on it, or it's got some maybe tomato sauce, anything, to just make it a little bit more palatable and interesting without blowing the value of the meal.
我会吃某种鱼或鸡肉，但它会以某种方式烹饪，就像上面可能有一些酱汁，或者可能有一些番茄酱，任何东西，只是让它变得更可口和有趣，而不会影响这顿饭的价值。
And then that last portion is where I put my starchy carbohydrates.
最后一部分是我放置淀粉类碳水化合物的地方。
And again, that's the part that some people say exclude them entirely because they're not healthy, or they don't work for you, or they're not beneficial long term.
再说一次，有些人说完全排除它们，因为它们不健康，或者它们对你不起作用，或者它们没有长期好处。
For me, like most people, my body craves those carbohydrates.
对我来说，像大多数人一样，我的身体渴望这些碳水化合物。
I choose things like sweet potatoes, which is my favorite, or I'll have rice, or I'll have pasta.
我选择像红薯这样的东西，这是我最喜欢的，或者我会吃米饭，或者我会吃面食。
I will have those things.
我会有那些东西。
I'm not excluding them, but I don't put them in the portions that you would generally find.
我并不排除它们，但我不会将它们放在您通常会找到的部分中。
No plan is going to work if you're eating stuff you don't like.
如果你吃的是你不喜欢的东西，任何计划都不会起作用。
It's not going to work forever.
它不会永远有效。
Nothing will.
什么都不会。
You have to really enjoy what you're eating.
你必须真正享受你所吃的东西。
As long as these variations of this meal are something that you really enjoy, and there are limited versions of them, the reproducibility of that is simple.
只要这顿饭的这些变化是您真正喜欢的，并且它们的版本有限，那么其再现性就很简单。
Because if everyone listening to this podcast can figure out their nutrition issues, this whole world would be different.
因为如果每个听这个播客的人都能弄清楚他们的营养问题，整个世界就会不同。
That is like one of the largest sources of disease and pain and discomfort because people really struggle with nutrition.
这就像疾病、疼痛和不适的最大来源之一，因为人们确实在营养方面挣扎。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I'd like to take a quick break to acknowledge one of our sponsors, David.
我想稍微休息一下，向我们的赞助商之一大卫表示感谢。
David makes protein bars unlike any other.
大卫制作的蛋白质棒与众不同。
Their newest bar, the Bronze Bar, has 20 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar.
他们最新的 Bronze Bar 含有 20 克蛋白质，仅 150 卡路里，零克糖。
I have to say, these are the best-tasting protein bars I've ever had, and I've tried a lot of protein bars over the years.
我不得不说，这些是我吃过的味道最好的蛋白质棒，这些年来我尝试过很多蛋白质棒。
These new David bars have a marshmallow base, and they're covered in chocolate coating, and they're absolutely incredible.
这些新的大卫巧克力棒有一个棉花糖底座，上面覆盖着巧克力涂层，它们绝对令人难以置信。
I, of course, eat regular whole foods.
当然，我经常吃天然食品。
I eat meat, chicken, fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables, et cetera.
我吃肉、鸡肉、鱼、鸡蛋、水果、蔬菜等等。
But I also make it a point to eat one or two David bars per day as a snack, which makes it easy to hit my protein goal of one gram of protein per pound of body weight.
但我也强调每天吃一两块大卫棒作为零食，这样很容易达到我每磅体重一克蛋白质的蛋白质目标。
And that allows me to take in the protein I need without consuming excess calories.
这使我能够摄入所需的蛋白质，而不会消耗过多的热量。
I love all the David Bronze Bar flavors, including Cookie Dough, Caramel Chocolate, Double Chocolate, Peanut Butter Chocolate.
我喜欢大卫青铜棒的所有口味，包括饼干面团、焦糖巧克力、双重巧克力、花生酱巧克力。
They all actually taste like candy bars.
它们实际上尝起来都像棒棒糖。
Again, they're amazing.
再说一次，他们太棒了。
But again, they have no sugar, and they have 20 grams of protein with just 150 calories.
但同样，它们不含糖，并且含有 20 克蛋白质，只有 150 卡路里热量。
If you'd like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 David，可以访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
Right now, David is offering a deal where if you buy four cartons, you get the fifth carton for free.
现在，大卫正在提供一项优惠，如果您购买四箱，您可以免费获得第五箱。
You can also find David on Amazon or in stores such as Target, Walmart, and Kroger.
您还可以在亚马逊或 Target、沃尔玛和克罗格等商店找到 David。
Again, to get the fifth carton for free, go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
同样，要免费获得第五箱，请访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
What are your thoughts in terms of the nutrition science, the training-related effects of the post-training meal.
您对营养科学、训练后膳食对训练相关的影响有何看法？
Is it something that you think people should pay attention to?
您认为这是人们应该关注的事情吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm not very dogmatic about what specifically to eat pre or post workout, but I do think you should have protein surrounding your training, whether that be ahead of time or after.
我对于锻炼前或锻炼后具体吃什么并不是很教条，但我确实认为你应该在训练期间摄入蛋白质，无论是在训练前还是训练后。
Protein could be a little bit hard to digest for some people.
对于某些人来说，蛋白质可能有点难以消化。
So if you do that pre-workout and then you're finding your workout's slogging because you don't feel good, then certainly you put that after your meal.
因此，如果您在锻炼前进行了锻炼，然后发现锻炼进展缓慢，因为您感觉不舒服，那么您肯定会将其放在饭后进行。
But this whole concept of the urgency of time has thankfully been removed, and we can just learn to eat a little bit more responsibly.
但值得庆幸的是，时间紧迫的整个概念已经被消除，我们可以学会更负责任地吃一点。
And even as far as pre-workout supplements, a lot of people don't take them.
即使就锻炼前补充剂而言，很多人也不服用。
A lot of people don't like them.
很多人不喜欢他们。
They don't take them.
他们不接受。
They're not necessarily even being used as the nutritive side of the pre-workout.
它们甚至不一定被用作锻炼前的营养成分。
They're just more used to fuel the workout.
它们只是更习惯于为锻炼提供能量。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
For me, it's water and some form of caffeine.
对我来说，它是水和某种形式的咖啡因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Again, I think it's important.
再说一遍，我认为这很重要。
I do think it's important to maintain a high level of output.
我确实认为保持高水平的产出很重要。
So if your pre-workout nutrition requires a stimulant in order to help you do that, or if your pre-workout nutrition is causing you to have a harder time to train because you're feeling full or stomach ache or something else, then that's not achieving what you're trying to do.
因此，如果你的锻炼前营养需要兴奋剂来帮助你做到这一点，或者如果你的锻炼前营养导致你因为感觉饱、胃痛或其他原因而难以训练，那么这并不能实现你想要做的事情。
The ultimate goal is to still be able to perform at the highest level.
最终目标是仍然能够发挥最高水平。
So whatever your nutrition is required to allow you to still do that, that is probably the most important factor of all of it.
因此，无论您需要什么营养才能让您仍然做到这一点，这可能是其中最重要的因素。
I hate to say it, but it's a lot less scientific than we want to make it, and as it seems to be coming back oftentimes, like the thing that works for you is really the most important thing because ultimately getting your ass in there and doing what you do is really the thing that provides the best benefit.
我不想这么说，但这比我们想要的科学性要低得多，而且似乎经常回来，对你有用的东西确实是最重要的，因为最终让你的屁股在那里，做你所做的事情实际上是提供最大利益的事情。
I think when you hear things like this, that like, "Hey, that will work, and that will work too, and that this will work, too" rather than the dogmatic one-way only approach, which could become discouraging for people, then I think it becomes a little bit uplifting like, "Well, I've never tried that.
我认为，当你听到这样的事情时，“嘿，这会起作用，这也会起作用，这也会起作用”，而不是教条式的单向方法，这可能会让人们感到沮丧，然后我认为它会变得有点令人振奋，比如“嗯，我从来没有尝试过。
I've actually never tried a total body split," or, "I've never tried that style of eating." It becomes encouraging that you might want to explore, and then you might finally get locked in and say, "I really like this," and then you're off and running.
事实上，我从来没有尝试过全身分割，”或者，“我从来没有尝试过那种饮食方式。”令人鼓舞的是，您可能想要探索，然后您可能最终会陷入困境并说：“我真的很喜欢这个”，然后您就可以开始跑步了。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
On behalf of myself and all the listeners, I really want to thank you.
我谨代表我自己和所有听众，衷心感谢你们。
And what I love about all of this, now that you've given us, is that there's a backbone of logic, and some consistent themes indeed about consistency.
我喜欢这一切，既然你已经给了我们，那就是它有一个逻辑的支柱，以及一些关于一致性的一致主题。
But the logical backbone, I think is what will enable people to really show up to the table and stay there for training consistently over time.
但我认为，逻辑支柱将使人们能够真正出现在谈判桌前，并随着时间的推移持续在那里接受培训。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm happy I was able to make it work because I've been watching your stuff for a while, and I really love the science of it.
我很高兴能够让它发挥作用，因为我已经观察你的东西一段时间了，而且我真的很喜欢它的科学性。
I like the way you think.
我喜欢你的想法。
I'm just really fortunate that I was able to do it.
我真的很幸运我能够做到这一点。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Well, I feel very gratified in hearing that and honored to have you here.
嗯，听到这个消息我感到非常高兴，也很荣幸您能来到这里。
So thank you so much.
非常感谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
You want to impress them on a first date, but also play it cool.
你想在第一次约会时给他们留下深刻的印象，但也要表现得冷静。
So what do you do?
那么你做什么呢？
I'm Rufi Thorpe, and I wrote and read a real love story about a Hinge couple that navigated exactly that.
我是鲁菲·索普，我写过并读过一个关于一对铰链夫妇的真实爱情故事，他们的经历正是如此。
Listen to the free audiobook now
立即收听免费有声读物