Essentials: Micronutrients for Health & Longevity | Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Welcome to Huberman Lab Essentials, where we revisit past episodes for the most potent and actionable science-based tools for mental health, physical health, and performance.
欢迎来到 Huberman Lab Essentials，在这里我们回顾过去的剧集，寻找针对心理健康、身体健康和表现的最有效、最可操作的基于科学的工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
And now for my discussion with Dr. Rhonda Patrick.
现在我与朗达帕特里克博士进行讨论。
Rhonda, welcome.
朗达，欢迎。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I am so excited to be here having a conversation with you.
我很高兴能在这里与您交谈。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Well, I have so many questions, but I want to start off with a kind of a new but old theme that you're very familiar with.
嗯，我有很多问题，但我想从一种你非常熟悉的新但旧的主题开始。
So temperature is a powerful stimulus, as we know, for biology, and you've covered a lot of material related to the utility of cold, but also the utility of heat.
因此，正如我们所知，对于生物学来说，温度是一种强大的刺激，并且您已经介绍了许多与冷的效用以及热的效用相关的材料。
And as I learn more and more from your content and from the various papers, it seems that cold can stimulate a number of things like increases in metabolism, brown fat, et cetera.
随着我从您的内容和各种论文中了解到越来越多的信息，寒冷似乎可以刺激许多事情，例如新陈代谢的增加、棕色脂肪等等。
But heat seems to be able to do a lot of the same things.
但热量似乎可以做很多同样的事情。
And I wonder whether or not the discomfort of cold, deliberate cold exposure, and the discomfort of heat might be anchoring to the same pathway.
我想知道寒冷的不适、故意暴露在寒冷中的不适以及炎热的不适是否可能与同一条途径有关。
So would you mind sharing with us a little bit about what happens when we get into a cold environment on purpose, and what happens when we get into a hot environment on purpose?
那么您介意与我们分享一下当我们故意进入寒冷的环境时会发生什么以及当我们故意进入炎热的环境时会发生什么吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's take a step back, and I think you brought up a really important point here.
让我们退一步，我认为你在这里提出了一个非常重要的观点。
We evolved to intermittently challenge ourselves.
我们进化到间歇性地挑战自己。
And before we had Instacart where you could basically just get your food delivered to you, we were out hunting, gathering, we were moving, and we had to be physically fit.
在Instacart出现之前，你基本上可以把食物送到你手上，我们出去打猎、采集、搬家，我们必须保持身体健康。
You couldn't catch your prey if you were a sedentary slob, right?
如果你是一个久坐的懒汉，你就无法抓住猎物，对吗？
Physical activity was a part of everyday life.
体育活动是日常生活的一部分。
And caloric restriction or intermittent fasting was also a part of it.
热量限制或间歇性禁食也是其中的一部分。
This is another type of challenge.
这是另一种类型的挑战。
We didn't always have a prey that we caught or maybe temperatures were such that there was nothing for us to gather, right?
我们并不总是有捕获的猎物，或者也许气温太高，我们没有什么可以收集的，对吧？
So food scarcity was something common as well as eating plants.
所以食物短缺和吃植物一样是很常见的事情。
So getting these compounds that I mentioned.
所以得到我提到的这些化合物。
So these are all types of stress, intermittent challenges that activate genetic pathways in our bodies.
因此，这些都是激活我们体内遗传途径的压力和间歇性挑战。
These are often referred to in science as stress response pathways because they respond to a little bit of stress.
这些在科学上通常被称为压力反应途径，因为它们会对一点压力做出反应。
Physical activity is strenuous.
体力活动很剧烈。
Fasting is a little bit stressful.
禁食有点压力。
Heat, cold, these things are all types of little intermittent challenges.
热、冷，这些都是间歇性的小挑战。
There is a lot of crosstalk between these stressors and the genetic pathways that they activate.
这些压力源和它们激活的遗传途径之间存在很多串扰。
And these genetic pathways that are activated help you deal with stress, and they do it in a way that is not only beneficial to help you deal with that little stressor, exercise or heat.
这些被激活的遗传途径可以帮助您应对压力，而且它们的作用方式不仅有利于帮助您应对小压力源、运动或高温。
It stays active, and it helps you deal with the stress of normal metabolism, normal immune function happening, just life, aging, right?
它保持活跃，它可以帮助你应对正常新陈代谢、正常免疫功能发生、生命、衰老的压力，对吗？
So this concept is referred to as hormesis, right?
所以这个概念被称为毒物兴奋效应，对吗？
This has a very profound antioxidant, anti-inflammatory response or whatever the response is.
它具有非常深远的抗氧化、抗炎反应或任何反应。
It could be the production of more stem cells or something like autophagy.
它可能是产生更多的干细胞或自噬之类的东西。
These stress response pathways are activated by a variety of stressors.
这些应激反应途径由多种应激源激活。
So for example, one pathway is called heat shock proteins, and as their name would apply, one would go, "Oh, they're activated by heat." Well, correct.
例如，一种途径称为热休克蛋白，正如其名称所适用的那样，人们会说，“哦，它们是被热激活的。”嗯，正确。
They are activated very robustly by heat.
它们被热强烈地激活。
But you can eat a plant like broccoli sprouts, which is high in something called sulforaphane, and it activates heat shock proteins, among other things.
但是你可以吃西兰花芽这样的植物，它富含一种叫做萝卜硫素的物质，它可以激活热休克蛋白等。
It also activates a very powerful detoxification pathway called Nrf2, which helps you detoxify things like carcinogens that you're exposed to.
它还激活一种非常强大的解毒途径，称为 Nrf2，可以帮助您对接触到的致癌物质等物质进行解毒。
Cold also activates heat shock proteins.
寒冷也会激活热休克蛋白。
Now, you're going to more robustly activate heat shock proteins from heat versus cold, but there is some overlap.
现在，与冷相比，您将更强有力地激活热休克蛋白，但存在一些重叠。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
You mentioned plants as a route to creating intermittent challenge.
您提到植物是创造间歇性挑战的一种途径。
There's a lot of debate, mostly online, about whether or not plants are our friends or plants are trying to kill us.
关于植物是否是我们的朋友或植物是否试图杀死我们，有很多争论，主要是在网上。
The extreme version from the carnivore types, pure carnivore diet types, is that plants are trying to kill us.
食肉动物类型的极端版本，纯粹的食肉动物饮食类型，是植物试图杀死我们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
These generalizations are kind of, they're just not useful, and I think that a lot of people online in the blogosphere, they gravitate towards them because it's just easier, and it's a lot more sensational.
这些概括是一种，它们只是没有用，而且我认为博客圈里的很多人都倾向于它们，因为它更容易，而且更耸人听闻。
But I do think with respect to plants, there's just evidence that sulforaphane is a very powerful activator of the Nrf2 pathway, and this is a pathway that regulates a lot of genes, and a lot of genes that are related to glutathione production, genes that are involved in detoxifying compounds that we're exposed to from our food, like heterocyclic amines.
但我确实认为，就植物而言，有证据表明萝卜硫素是 Nrf2 途径的一种非常强大的激活剂，这种途径可以调节许多基因，以及许多与谷胱甘肽生成相关的基因，这些基因参与对我们从食物中接触到的化合物（如杂环胺）进行解毒。
In fact, there have been GWAS studies.
事实上，已经有GWAS研究。
So these are genetically-- These are studies that are genome-wide associated studies for people listening that aren't familiar.
所以这些是遗传学上的——这些研究是针对不熟悉的人的全基因组相关研究。
People have a variety of versions of genes, and we have a gene that's able to make heterocyclic amines to basically detoxify it so it's not as harmful.
人们有多种版本的基因，我们有一种基因能够产生杂环胺，基本上可以解毒，因此它的危害性较小。
And people that don't have a certain version of that that's doing it well are very prone to colon cancer and increased cancer risk.
而那些没有某种形式做得很好的人很容易患结肠癌并增加患癌症的风险。
But if they eat a lot of broccoli and cruciferous vegetables, it negates that risk because they're getting sulforaphane, which activates glutathione transferase and synthase genes.
但如果他们吃大量西兰花和十字花科蔬菜，就可以消除这种风险，因为他们会获得萝卜硫素，从而激活谷胱甘肽转移酶和合酶基因。
So glutathione's a major antioxidant in our brain and in our vascular system and our body, basically.
因此，谷胱甘肽基本上是我们大脑、血管系统和身体中的主要抗氧化剂。
There's evidence eating things like compounds that are like sulforaphane or broccoli or broccoli sprouts, which have up to 100 times more sulforaphane than broccoli are activating glutathione in the brain.
有证据表明，吃萝卜硫素、西兰花或西兰花芽等化合物（其萝卜硫素含量比西兰花多 100 倍）会激活大脑中的谷胱甘肽。
There's human evidence of that.
有人类证据证明这一点。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Can we cook the broccoli and still get these nutrients, or do we have to eat it raw?
我们可以煮熟西兰花并仍然获得这些营养吗，还是必须生吃？
I confess, eating raw broccoli is really aversive to me.
我承认，吃生西兰花对我来说真的很反感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So you do somewhat lower the sulforaphane levels when you cook the broccoli.
因此，在烹饪西兰花时，确实会稍微降低萝卜硫素的含量。
However, there was a study a few years back that showed adding 1 gram of mustard seed powder ground to your cooked broccoli increases the sulforaphane by fourfold.
然而，几年前的一项研究表明，在煮熟的西兰花中添加 1 克芥末籽粉，可使萝卜硫素含量增加四倍。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Are you eating this every day or most days of the week?
你是每天都吃这个还是一周的大部分时间都吃这个？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I had shifted to supplementation with sulforaphane.
好吧，我已经转向补充萝卜硫素。
There's another compound, and it's actually called moringa It's like a cousin, and it activates the NRF2 pathway similarly to sulforaphane.
还有另一种化合物，它实际上叫做辣木，它就像它的表亲一样，它与萝卜硫素类似，可以激活 NRF2 通路。
And so I've been buying this Cooley Cooley Moringa powder, and I add it to my smoothies.
所以我一直在购买这种 Cooley Cooley 辣木粉，并将其添加到我的冰沙中。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, LMNT.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 LMNT。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium in the correct amounts, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的含量正确，但不含糖。
Proper hydration is critical for optimal brain and body function.
适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体的最佳功能至关重要。
Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish cognitive and physical performance.
即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低认知和身体表现。
It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.
获得充足的电解质也很重要。
The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are vital for functioning of all the cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.
电解质（钠、镁和钾）对于体内所有细胞（尤其是神经元或神经细胞）的功能至关重要。
Drinking LMNT dissolved in water makes it very easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.
饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT 可以很容易地确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。
To make sure that I'm getting proper amounts of hydration and electrolytes, I dissolve one packet of LMNT in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I first wake up in the morning, and I drink that basically first thing in the morning.
为了确保我获得适量的水合作用和电解质，当我早上第一次醒来时，我将一包 LMNT 溶解在大约 16 至 32 盎司的水中，并且我基本上早上第一件事就是喝它。
I'll also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes.
我还会在进行任何体育锻炼时饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT，尤其是在炎热的日子里，当我大量出汗并失去水和电解质时。
LMNT has a bunch of great-tasting flavors.
LMNT 有很多美味的口味。
I love the raspberry.
我喜欢覆盆子。
I love the citrus flavor.
我喜欢柑橘味。
Right now, LMNT has a limited edition lemonade flavor that is absolutely delicious.
现在LMNT推出了限量版柠檬水口味，绝对美味。
I hate to say that I love one more than all the others, but this lemonade flavor is right up there with my favorite other one, which is raspberry or watermelon.
我不想说我比其他所有口味都更喜欢其中一种，但这种柠檬水口味与我最喜欢的另一种口味（覆盆子或西瓜）不相上下。
Again, I can't pick just one flavor.
再说一次，我不能只选择一种口味。
I love them all.
我爱他们所有人。
If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman, spelled drinklmnt.com/huberman, to claim a free LMNT sample pack with a purchase of any LMNT drink mix.
如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman（拼写为 Drinklmnt.com/huberman），购买任意 LMNT 混合饮料即可领取免费 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。
So if you had to do your kind of top three, your superstars of nutrients for the brain and body, sounds like we've got one set.
所以，如果你必须做你的前三名，你的大脑和身体营养超级明星，听起来我们已经有一套了。
What would you put alongside them?
你会在它们旁边放什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Omega-3, the marine omega-3 fatty acids.
Omega-3，海洋 Omega-3 脂肪酸。
So these are found in marine types of animals, fish, cold-water fish, fatty fish.
因此，这些存在于海洋动物、鱼类、冷水鱼、多脂鱼中。
So there's three fatty acids.
所以有三种脂肪酸。
There's ALA, EPA, and DHA.
有 ALA、EPA 和 DHA。
If you get a high-quality one, it's in a triglyceride form.
如果你买到的是高品质的，它是甘油三酯的形式。
So you've got a glycerol backbone with three fatty acids, and that's attached.
所以你有一个带有三个脂肪酸的甘油主链，并且它是附加的。
And those are either DHA or the EPA.
这些要么是 DHA，要么是 EPA。
Or if you have a lower quality fish oil supplement, then you have what's called ethyl ester form.
或者，如果您的鱼油补充剂质量较低，那么您就有所谓的乙酯形式。
And it's not that ethyl ester's bad, it just means take it with food basically.
这并不是说乙酯不好，只是意味着它基本上与食物一起服用。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
What's the dosage that you recommend people get?
您建议人们服用的剂量是多少？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think two grams is a good threshold.
我认为两克是一个很好的阈值。
Now, the International Fish Oil Standards, IFSO, they have a website where they do third-party testing of a ton of different fish oil supplements from around the world.
现在，国际鱼油标准（IFSO）拥有一个网站，可以对来自世界各地的大量不同鱼油补充剂进行第三方测试。
And they measure the concentration of the omega-3 fatty acids in the actual supplement because nothing is ever what it says on the bottle.
他们测量了实际补充剂中 omega-3 脂肪酸的浓度，因为一切都与瓶子上的标签不同。
And then they also measure contaminants, so mercury, PCBs, dioxins, things that you'd find potentially in fish that are harmful to humans.
然后他们还测量污染物，例如汞、多氯联苯、二恶英，以及您在鱼类中可能发现的对人类有害的物质。
And they also measure mercury and then oxidized fatty acids.
他们还测量汞，然后测量氧化脂肪酸。
So these omega-3 fatty acids are polyunsaturated fatty acids, which are extremely prone to oxidation.
所以这些omega-3脂肪酸是多不饱和脂肪酸，极易氧化。
So please keep your fish oil in the refrigerator.
因此，请将鱼油存放在冰箱中。
They give you a total oxidation number.
他们给你一个总氧化值。
It's called TOTOX.
它的名字叫TOTOX。
TOTOX is what we call it for short.
TOTOX 是我们对它的简称。
And I like it to be at the least under 10, ideally under six.
我希望它至少在 10 个以下，最好是在 6 个以下。
It's really hard to find all the right mixtures of things.
找到所有事物的正确组合确实很难。
But people can go to this website, and they can browse through the products.
但人们可以访问这个网站，他们可以浏览产品。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
What are some things that getting two to four grams of EPA per day is going to help with in our brain and the rest of our body?
每天摄入 2 到 4 克 EPA 对我们的大脑和身体其他部位有哪些帮助？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I personally think it is one of the most powerful anti-inflammatory dietary lifestyle things that we can get easily that is going to powerfully modulate the way you think, the way you feel, and the way you age.
我个人认为，这是我们可以轻松获得的最强大的抗炎饮食生活方式之一，它将有力地调节您的思维方式、感觉方式和衰老方式。
So there's been lots of work by Dr. Bill Harris and his collaborators looking at what is called the omega-3 index.
因此，Bill Harris 博士和他的合作者做了大量工作来研究所谓的 omega-3 指数。
So this is actually the omega-3 level in red blood cells.
所以这实际上是红细胞中的 omega-3 水平。
So red blood cells turn over about every 120 days.
因此红细胞大约每 120 天更新一次。
So it's a long-term marker of omega-3 status.
因此它是 omega-3 状态的长期标志。
He's done a variety of studies, observational studies, so measuring omega-3 index in people and then looking at their mortality risk, for example, or their cardiovascular disease risk.
他进行了各种研究，观察性研究，测量人们的 omega-3 指数，然后观察他们的死亡风险，例如，或心血管疾病的风险。
And what he has found is that most...
他发现大多数...
First of all, standard American diet has omega-3 index of 5%.
首先，标准的美国饮食中omega-3指数为5%。
Japan, by contrast, has an omega-3 index of around 10% to 11%.
相比之下，日本的 omega-3 指数约为 10% 至 11%。
Big difference there.
差别很大。
And they also have about a five-year increased life expectancy compared to people in the US.
与美国人相比，他们的预期寿命也延长了大约五年。
What he showed in his data was that people that had an omega-3 index of 4% or lower, so close to what the standard American is, but a little bit lower.
他在数据中显示，那些人的 omega-3 指数为 4% 或更低，非常接近美国人的标准，但略低一些。
They had a five-year decreased life expectancy compared to people that had an 8% omega-3 index.
与 omega-3 指数为 8% 的人相比，他们的预期寿命缩短了五年。
People that are in the 4% omega-3 index range, in order to get to the 8%, right, the five-year increased life expectancy if we're comparing the two groups, was to supplement with at least two grams.
如果我们比较两组，那么处于 4% omega-3 指数范围内的人，为了达到 8%（正确的）预期寿命延长五年，需要补充至少 2 克。
It was about two grams a day.
每天大约两克。
And I think it was a little bit less if it was triglyceride form, but I think two grams is a good, safe number.
我认为如果是甘油三酯形式的话，含量会少一些，但我认为两克是一个很好、安全的数字。
So most Americans that are not eating a lot of fish and they're not supplementing are probably around a 4% to 5% omega-3 index.
因此，大多数不吃大量鱼且不补充补充剂的美国人的 omega-3 指数可能在 4% 到 5% 左右。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Where and how can somebody measure their omega-3 index?
人们可以在哪里以及如何测量他们的 omega-3 指数？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The omega-3 index is actually in the red blood cells, and red blood cells take 120 days to turn over.
omega-3指数实际上存在于红细胞中，而红细胞需要120天才能完成更新。
So if you're going to do a baseline test, if you want to know before supplementing what your level is, you have to wait 120 days before doing the second test after supplementing to know how much you went up, because that's how long it takes for your red blood cell to turn over.
所以如果你要做一个基线测试，如果你想在补充之前知道你的水平是多少，你必须等待120天才能在补充后进行第二次测试才能知道你上升了多少，因为这就是你的红细胞更新需要多长时间。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
How is omega-3 and some of these other related lipids, how are they having these positive effects?
omega-3 和其他一些相关脂质怎么样？它们如何产生这些积极作用？
What are some of the purported, reported, and known mechanisms?
据称、报道和已知的机制有哪些？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some of the most well-known mechanisms do have to do with the omega-3 fatty acids being very powerful regulators of The inflammatory process in some way, shape, or form, whether that has to do with resolvens that are produced.
一些最著名的机制确实与 omega-3 脂肪酸有关，它以某种方式、形状或形式对炎症过程起到非常强大的调节作用，无论这是否与产生的分解有关。
So these, from the metabolites of DHA, for example, resolvens play a role in resolving inflammation.
因此，这些来自 DHA 代谢物的分解物在解决炎症方面发挥着作用。
You want your inflammatory response to be activated when it's supposed to be, but you want to resolve that inflammation and that inflammatory response in a timely manner, right?
您希望炎症反应在应有的时候被激活，但您希望及时解决炎症和炎症反应，对吧？
And resolvens help do that.
决心帮助做到这一点。
And so resolvens are one, and then there's these specialized pro-mediating molecules, the СПMs, that also help resolve the inflammation.
因此，解决是其中之一，然后还有这些专门的促介导分子，СПM，也有助于解决炎症。
Just so many different ways and inputs.
只是这么多不同的方式和输入。
And so when we talk about inflammation, honestly, it's a big general term.
因此，老实说，当我们谈论炎症时，这是一个很大的通用术语。
But when you're talking about serotonin release at the level of neurons, we know that these inflammatory molecules cross the blood-brain barrier.
但是当你谈论神经元水平的血清素释放时，我们知道这些炎症分子会穿过血脑屏障。
It's known that omega-3s, actually specifically EPA, is able to help serotonin.
众所周知，omega-3（实际上是 EPA）能够帮助产生血清素。
Inflammation inhibits the release of serotonin.
炎症会抑制血清素的释放。
And so EPA is actually able to blunt inflammatory responses, along with DHA as well.
因此 EPA 实际上能够与 DHA 一起减弱炎症反应。
DHA does that through resolvens and stuff.
DHA 通过解析之类的东西来做到这一点。
And this then helps more serotonin be released because you're not having so much inflammation getting into the brain and affecting serotonin release, right?
这有助于释放更多的血清素，因为你不会有太多炎症进入大脑并影响血清素的释放，对吗？
That's one mechanism.
这是一种机制。
And then another would be, well, DHA itself has been shown, it's a very important fatty acid that makes up cell membranes, many cell membranes, including in our neurons.
另一个是，DHA 本身已经被证明，它是一种非常重要的脂肪酸，构成细胞膜，许多细胞膜，包括我们的神经元。
And as you very well know, Andrew, the structure and function of receptors, of transporters, these membrane-bound proteins on the surface of our cells, including neurons, are affected by the membrane fluidity.
正如你所知道的，安德鲁，受体、转运蛋白、我们细胞（包括神经元）表面的膜结合蛋白的结构和功能受到膜流动性的影响。
How rigid and how fluid the cell membrane is.
细胞膜的刚性和流动性如何。
And DHA plays a role in that.
DHA 在其中发挥着重要作用。
And so, for example, in animal studies, if you make an animal deficient in DHA, their serotonin receptors, dopamine receptors, they're affected because the structure of them is affected through the fluidity of the membrane.
例如，在动物研究中，如果你让动物缺乏 DHA、血清素受体、多巴胺受体，它们就会受到影响，因为它们的结构会通过膜的流动性受到影响。
There's been some animal studies in piglets and rodents as well, showing that consuming phospholipid DHA during fetal brain development gets 10 times more DHA into the brain.
一些针对仔猪和啮齿动物的动物研究表明，在胎儿大脑发育过程中摄入磷脂 DHA 可以使大脑中的 DHA 增加 10 倍。
If you're supplementing with your two to four grams of fish oil, you're going to get phospholipid form anyway because your body's going to make it.
如果您补充两到四克鱼油，无论如何您都会获得磷脂形式，因为您的身体会制造它。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
We've known for a long time that there are things that we can do to improve our sleep, and that includes things that we can take.
我们很早就知道我们可以采取一些措施来改善睡眠，其中包括我们可以采取的措施。
Things like magnesium threonate, theanine, chamomile extract, and glycine, along with lesser-known things like saffron and valerian root.
苏糖酸镁、茶氨酸、洋甘菊提取物和甘氨酸等物质，以及藏红花和缬草根等鲜为人知的物质。
These are all clinically supported ingredients that can help you fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up feeling more refreshed.
这些都是经过临床支持的成分，可以帮助您入睡、保持睡眠状态，并且醒来时感觉更加神清气爽。
I'm excited to share that our longtime sponsor, AG1, just created a new product called AGZ, a nightly drink designed to help you get better sleep and have you wake up feeling super refreshed.
我很高兴与大家分享，我们的长期赞助商 AG1 刚刚创造了一款名为 AGZ 的新产品，这是一种夜间饮料，旨在帮助您获得更好的睡眠，让您醒来时感觉神清气爽。
Over the past few years, I've worked with the team at AG1 to help create this new AGZ formula.
在过去的几年里，我与 AG1 的团队合作，帮助创建了这个新的 AGZ 公式。
It has the best sleep-supporting compounds in exactly the right ratios in one easy-to-drink mix.
它在一种易于饮用的混合物中以完全正确的比例含有最好的睡眠支持化合物。
This removes all the complexity of trying to forage the vast landscape of supplements focused on sleep and figuring out the right dosages and which ones to take for you.
这消除了尝试寻找大量针对睡眠的补充剂以及确定正确剂量和适合您服用的补充剂的所有复杂性。
AGZ is, to my knowledge, the most comprehensive sleep supplement on the market.
据我所知，AGZ 是市场上最全面的睡眠补充剂。
I take it 30 to 60 minutes before sleep.
我在睡前 30 到 60 分钟服用。
It's delicious, by the way.
顺便说一句，它很好吃。
And it dramatically increases both the quality and the depth of my sleep.
它极大地提高了我的睡眠质量和深度。
I know that both from my subjective experience of my sleep and because I track my sleep.
我知道这一点，既来自我对睡眠的主观体验，也因为我跟踪了我的睡眠。
I'm excited for everyone to try this new AGZ formulation and to enjoy the benefits of better sleep.
我很高兴每个人都能尝试这种新的 AGZ 配方并享受更好睡眠的好处。
AGZ is available in chocolate, chocolate mint, and mixed berry flavors.
AGZ 有巧克力、巧克力薄荷和混合浆果口味。
And as I mentioned before, they're all extremely delicious.
正如我之前提到的，它们都非常美味。
My favorite of the three has to be, I think, chocolate mint, but I really like them all.
我认为这三者中我最喜欢的是巧克力薄荷，但我真的很喜欢它们。
If you'd like to try AGZ, go to drinkagz.com/huberman to get a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AGZ，请访问 Drinkagz.com/huberman 以获得特别优惠。
Again, that's drinkagz.com/huberman.
再说一遍，这是 Drinkagz.com/huberman。
So we have these plant-based compounds.
所以我们有这些植物性化合物。
We have the omega-3s, so EPA, DHA, and then you mentioned there's a third category.
我们有 omega-3，EPA，DHA，然后你提到还有第三类。
What would you place in your third category of foods or supplement-based nutrients that brain and/or body health can really benefit from?
您认为第三类食物或补充剂营养物质中哪些是大脑和/或身体健康真正受益的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think the most obvious would be vitamin D.
我认为最明显的是维生素 D。
70% of the US population has inadequate vitamin D levels.
70% 的美国人维生素 D 水平不足。
70% of the whole-
整体的70%——
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Amazing
太棒了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
US.
美国。
So this is everyone.
所以这就是每个人。
And so I think that insufficient levels defined as less than 30 nanograms per milliliter, and that's sort of defined by the Endocrine Society.
因此，我认为含量不足的定义是每毫升低于 30 纳克，这是内分泌学会所定义的。
There's been a lot of different meta-analyses of all-cause mortality studies where vitamin D levels really seem to be ideal between 40 to 60 nanograms per milliliter.
对全因死亡率研究进行了许多不同的荟萃分析，其中维生素 D 水平似乎确实理想在 40 至 60 纳克/毫升之间。
So basically, the point is that vitamin D is a steroid hormone, meaning it actually binds to a receptor, and another receptor dimerizes with it, the retinoid receptor.
基本上，重点是维生素 D 是一种类固醇激素，这意味着它实际上与一种受体结合，另一种受体与其形成二聚体，即类视黄醇受体。
And that complex goes into the nucleus of a cell where your DNA is, and it recognizes little sequences of DNA called vitamin D response elements.
该复合物进入 DNA 所在的细胞核，并识别称为维生素 D 反应元件的 DNA 小序列。
They're called VDREs.
它们被称为 VDRE。
They're specific sequences of DNA that this complex vitamin D bound with a vitamin D receptor goes inside and recognizes and turns on a whole host of genes, turns off a whole host of genes.
它们是特定的 DNA 序列，这种与维生素 D 受体结合的复杂维生素 D 进入其中并识别并打开整个基因组，关闭整个基因组。
This is important stuff.
这是重要的事情。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
What sorts of things is it stimulating?
什么样的事情是刺激的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, so first of all, it's regulating more than 5% of the protein-encoded human genome.
好的，首先，它调节着超过 5% 的人类基因组蛋白质编码。
One of the important things that you'll find interesting that I published on back in 2014 was that the VDREs and tryptophan hydroxylase 2...
您会发现我在 2014 年发表的有趣的重要事情之一是 VDRE 和色氨酸羟化酶 2...
So for people listening, tryptophan hydroxylase is an enzyme that converts tryptophan into serotonin.
因此，对于听的人来说，色氨酸羟化酶是一种将色氨酸转化为血清素的酶。
So tryptophan is an amino acid that we get from our food.
所以色氨酸是我们从食物中获取的一种氨基酸。
You convert tryptophan into serotonin in the gut, but you also do it in the brain.
您在肠道中将色氨酸转化为血清素，但您也在大脑中进行此过程。
However, serotonin does not cross the blood-brain barrier.
然而，血清素不能穿过血脑屏障。
So tryptophan has to get into your brain, and then you have to convert it to serotonin in your brain.
所以色氨酸必须进入你的大脑，然后你必须在你的大脑中将其转化为血清素。
Well, the enzyme that does that in your brain is called tryptophan hydroxylase 2, and it's activated by vitamin D.
大脑中执行此操作的酶称为色氨酸羟化酶 2，它由维生素 D 激活。
But most people, this is regulating our immune cell, immune system.
但对大多数人来说，这是调节我们的免疫细胞、免疫系统。
It's regulating our blood pressure, all that water retention.
它可以调节我们的血压和水分滞留。
Bone, of course, homeostasis.
骨骼当然有体内平衡。
5%, more than 5%.
5%，5%以上。
I can't tell you, so much.
我不能告诉你，这么多。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Where and what is a good starting range for people to think about D3 supplementation, and again, foods that can increase D3?
人们考虑补充 D3 以及可以增加 D3 的食物的良好起始范围在哪里？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So vitamin D3 is a good way to supplement with it.
所以补充维生素D3是一个很好的方法。
Vitamin D2 would be a plant source.
维生素 D2 是植物来源。
You often find it fortified in foods like milk.
您经常会发现它在牛奶等食物中得到强化。
Yeah, vitamin D is naturally, to some degree, in fatty fish, but you're not going to correct a deficiency with eating fish for your vitamin D.
是的，在某种程度上，富含脂肪的鱼中天然含有维生素 D，但吃鱼并不能弥补维生素 D 的缺乏。
You're either going to correct it with sun exposure, being in the right area, having the right amount of sun, and being the right age.
你要么通过阳光照射、处于正确的区域、接受适量的阳光、并处于正确的年龄来纠正它。
Because as you get old, you become very inefficient at making vitamin D3 in your skin.
因为随着年龄的增长，皮肤制造维生素 D3 的效率会变得非常低。
There have been a lot of these Mendelian randomization studies.
已有很多孟德尔随机化研究。
So these are studies where scientists will look at people that have these common variations of a gene that's a little more than 1% of the population.
因此，在这些研究中，科学家将观察具有这些常见基因变异的人，这些人占总人口的比例略多于 1%。
So it's not a random mutation.
所以这不是随机突变。
It's actually found in a sizable percent of the population.
实际上，相当大比例的人口中都存在这种情况。
A lot of times, they'll look at genes that are also involved in SNPs that basically make the conversion of either vitamin D precursor into D3, or D3 into 25 hydroxyvitamin D, or into the active steroid hormone, which is 1,25-hydroxyvitamin D.
很多时候，他们会研究与 SNP 相关的基因，这些 SNP 基本上将维生素 D 前体转化为 D3，或将 D3 转化为 25 羟基维生素 D，或转化为活性类固醇激素，即 1,25-羟基维生素 D。
So you're not looking at vitamin D levels at all.
所以你根本就没有考虑维生素 D 的水平。
You're looking at just the SNPs, and you know if they have it, they have low vitamin D.
你只看 SNP，你就知道如果它们有 SNP，那么它们的维生素 D 含量就很低。
People randomly have these genes, and there's no health status.
人们随机拥有这些基因，并且没有健康状况。
So these Mendelian randomization studies have found that people that can't convert into the precursor, the 25 hydroxyvitamin D, which is usually what's measured, it's the most stable form of vitamin D in the body.
因此，这些孟德尔随机化研究发现，人们无法转化为通常测量的前体 25 羟基维生素 D，它是体内最稳定的维生素 D 形式。
They have a higher all-cause mortality if they can't do it.
如果他们做不到这一点，他们的全因死亡率就会更高。
So people that don't have it have a lower all-cause mortality.
因此，没有这种疾病的人的全因死亡率较低。
They have a higher respiratory-related mortality.
他们的呼吸系统相关死亡率较高。
They have a higher cancer-related mortality.
他们的癌症相关死亡率较高。
They also are more likely to get multiple sclerosis.
他们也更有可能患上多发性硬化症。
This has all been done with Mendelian randomization.
这一切都是通过孟德尔随机化完成的。
And so it really does hammer home the importance of measuring your vitamin D levels and being very proactive about that.
因此，它确实强调了测量维生素 D 水平并积极主动地测量维生素 D 水平的重要性。
You can get it done anywhere.
你可以在任何地方完成它。
Your doctor will do it.
你的医生会做的。
You ask them to do it.
你要求他们这样做。
So supplementation-wise, typically if you don't have one of those SNPs, for the most part, taking 1,000 IUs of vitamin D will raise blood levels by around five nanograms per milliliter.
因此，就补充而言，通常如果您没有其中一种 SNP，那么在大多数情况下，服用 1,000 个国际单位的维生素 D 将使血液水平提高约每毫升 5 纳克。
So let's say you're deficient, you're 20 nanograms per milliliter, and you want to get to 40.
假设您缺乏营养，每毫升含有 20 纳克，而您希望达到 40 纳克。
You're going to need at least 4,000 IUs.
您至少需要 4,000 个 IU。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
So for people who are going to be stubborn and not get their D levels tested and simply say, "Oh, I'll just take some D3," is that reasonable?
因此，对于那些固执地不测试 D 水平并简单地说“哦，我就拿一些 D3”的人来说，这合理吗？
1,000 to 5,000 IUs for most people would be reasonably safe?
对于大多数人来说 1,000 到 5,000 个国际单位是相当安全的吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If we look at the literature, the scientific literature, it is extremely hard to get hypercalcemia, which would be the major concern with really high levels of vitamin D3 supplementation.
如果我们查看文献、科学文献，就会发现高钙血症是极难发生的，而高钙血症是补充高水平维生素 D3 的主要问题。
We're talking hundreds of thousands of IU a day for a long time.
我们在很长一段时间内每天谈论数十万个 IU。
And by the way, there have been studies looking at people that are deficient in vitamin D.
顺便说一下，有一些研究针对的是缺乏维生素 D 的人。
In this case, it was African Americans that were given a 4,000 IU a day vitamin D supplement to bring them back to sufficient levels.
在这种情况下，非洲裔美国人每天补充 4,000 国际单位的维生素 D，以使其恢复到足够的水平。
And this was a smaller study than I would like, but it reversed their epigenetic aging by three years because-
这是一项比我想要的小研究，但它使他们的表观遗传衰老逆转了三年，因为-
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Wow
哇
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
again, it's a hormone.
再说一遍，它是一种激素。
It's regulating more than 5% of your protein-encoding human genome.
它调节超过 5% 的人类基因组蛋白质编码。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
So if I'm taking vitamin D3, I still need to get out into the sun, correct?
因此，如果我服用维生素 D3，我仍然需要出去晒太阳，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Okay.
好的。
So we've talked about these plant-based compounds, the omega-3s and D3.
我们已经讨论了这些植物性化合物、omega-3 和 D3。
Is there anything to supplement-based or food-based compounds that you think are especially useful for brain and/or body health?
您认为有什么基于补充剂或基于食物的化合物对大脑和/或身体健康特别有用？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do think magnesium is important in there as well.
我确实认为镁在那里也很重要。
I think, again, about 40% of the US population doesn't get enough magnesium.
我再次认为，大约 40% 的美国人没有摄入足够的镁。
It's an essential mineral we're supposed to be getting from our diet.
它是我们应该从饮食中获取的必需矿物质。
Magnesium is also involved in making ATP, the energetic currency of our cells.
镁还参与制造 ATP（我们细胞的能量货币）。
Basically, all of our cells need ATP to do anything.
基本上，我们所有的细胞都需要 ATP 来做任何事情。
And it's also involved in utilizing ATP as well as DNA repair enzymes.
它还参与利用 ATP 以及 DNA 修复酶。
These are enzymes that are involved in repairing damage to our DNA.
这些酶参与修复 DNA 损伤。
I personally think that magnesium insufficiency causes an insidious type of damage daily that you can't look in the mirror and see.
我个人认为，镁缺乏会每天造成一种你无法照镜子看到的潜在损害。
Like when you're deficient in vitamin C, you're like, "My gums are falling apart.
就像当你缺乏维生素 C 时，你会说，“我的牙龈快要塌陷了。
I have scurvy." But you can't see DNA damage.
我有坏血病。”但你看不到 DNA 损伤。
You can't see it, but it's happening.
你看不到它，但它正在发生。
It's happening right now in my body, and it's happening in your body.
它现在正在我的身体里发生，也正在你的身体里发生。
It's happening normal metabolism.
这是正常的新陈代谢。
It's happening every day.
这种事每天都在发生。
But we repair that damage.
但我们会修复损坏。
We have repair enzymes in our body called DNA repair enzymes.
我们体内有修复酶，称为DNA修复酶。
They require magnesium.
他们需要镁。
Magnesium is a cofactor for them.
镁是它们的辅助因子。
Well, magnesium is at the center of a chlorophyll molecule.
嗯，镁位于叶绿素分子的中心。
Chlorophyll is what gives plants their green color.
叶绿素赋予植物绿色。
So dark leafy greens are high in magnesium.
因此，深色绿叶蔬菜的镁含量很高。
Basically, what does the 40% insufficiency in the US tell us?
基本上，美国40%的不足告诉我们什么？
People aren't eating their greens.
人们不吃蔬菜了。
They're eating their packaged food, they're eating their processed food.
他们正在吃包装食品，他们正在吃加工食品。
The standard American diet isn't really high in dark leafy greens.
标准的美国饮食中深色绿叶蔬菜的含量并不高。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
So kale, what are some other examples?
那么羽衣甘蓝，还有哪些其他例子？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Kale, spinach, chard, like Swiss chard-
羽衣甘蓝、菠菜、甜菜，比如瑞士甜菜——
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Okay
好的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
rainbow chard, romaine lettuce.
彩虹甜菜，生菜。
So supplementation with magnesium, it can cause GI distress at high doses.
因此补充镁，高剂量会导致胃肠道不适。
I personally like to take around 130 or 135 milligrams.
我个人喜欢服用 130 或 135 毫克左右。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That way it's not like a huge bolus to my gut.
这样一来，我的肠道就不再需要大量的药物了。
You can take magnesium three and eight, for example, and it doesn't affect the gut as much.
例如，您可以服用三号和八号镁，它不会对肠道产生太大影响。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Oh, okay.
哦，好吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I would say malate would be the best.
我想说苹果酸是最好的。
That has to do with the short chain fatty acids being good for the gut.
这与短链脂肪酸对肠道有益有关。
I think malate's awesome, and I always try to eat green apples.
我觉得苹果酸很棒，而且我总是尝试吃青苹果。
They're really high in malic acid.
它们的苹果酸含量确实很高。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Oh, good to know.
哦，很高兴知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And tart cherries.
还有酸樱桃。
Tart cherries are really high in it as well
酸樱桃的含量也很高
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
Last year, I became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
去年，在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我成为了 Function 成员。
Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health.
Function 提供 100 多项高级实验室测试，为您提供整个身体健康状况的关键快照。
This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more.
此快照为您提供有关心脏健康、激素健康、免疫功能、营养水平等方面的见解。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas.
Function 不仅提供对您的身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标记物的测试，而且还分析这些结果并提供相关领域专家的顶级医生的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量升高。
Function not only helped me detect that, but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, I'd been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification.
功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，还为我提供了如何最好地降低汞含量的见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼摄入量，我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力多吃绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒。
And I should say, by taking a second Function test, that approach worked.
我应该说，通过进行第二次功能测试，这种方法奏效了。
Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important.
全面的血液检测至关重要。
There's so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test.
有很多与您的心理和身体健康相关的事情只能通过血液检查来检测。
The problem is blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated.
问题是血液检测一直非常昂贵且复杂。
In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost.
相比之下，Function 的简单性和成本水平给我留下了深刻的印象。
It is very affordable.
这是非常实惠的。
As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
因此，我决定加入他们的科学顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Function，可以访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman Podcast listeners.
Function 目前有超过 250,000 人的等候名单，但他们正在为 Huberman 播客听众提供早期访问服务。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
You've talked a lot about the use of deliberate cold exposure.
您已经谈论了很多关于故意暴露在寒冷环境中的问题。
What sort of activity or stimulus do you think is a reasonable and particularly potent one to use in terms of cold?
您认为哪种活动或刺激对于感冒来说是合理且特别有效的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So today I did three minutes at 49 degrees Fahrenheit.
所以今天我在 49 华氏度的温度下做了三分钟。
I have a cold tub.
我有一个冷水浴缸。
I definitely do cold when I'm going to do a podcast, when I'm going to give a talk, or when I'm anxious.
当我要做播客时，当我要演讲时，或者当我焦虑时，我肯定会感到寒冷。
I feel good.
我感觉很好。
I feel more focused, which is why I usually do it before any type of public speaking.
我感觉更专注，这就是为什么我通常在任何类型的公开演讲之前这样做。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
So the mood-enhancing effects that you report, those are almost certainly a consequence of having slowly elevating but significantly elevated dopamine that goes on for hours.
因此，您报告的情绪增强效果几乎可以肯定是多巴胺持续数小时缓慢但显着升高的结果。
That's almost a dreamlike profile for dopamine, because most everything else, like an Adderall, a Ritalin, a cup of coffee, and a pre-workout drink or something is going to give you a big spike in adrenaline and dopamine and a big crash.
这对多巴胺来说几乎是一个梦幻般的情况，因为大多数其他东西，比如阿得拉、利他林、一杯咖啡、锻炼前饮料或其他东西都会让你的肾上腺素和多巴胺大幅飙升，然后严重崩溃。
But the advantage of not doing it too often is that you're not cold adapted.
但不经常这样做的好处是你不会冷适应。
Now, it's very hard for anyone to get truly cold adapted.
现在，任何人都很难真正适应寒冷。
Some people start to look forward to the cold, and what I think they're looking forward to is the feeling afterward, that dopamine rush.
有些人开始期待寒冷，我想他们期待的是寒冷之后的感觉，那种多巴胺激增的感觉。
But if you get cold adapted, then it certainly blunts some of the effect.
但如果你适应了寒冷，那么它肯定会削弱一些效果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I want to be cold adapted because that means I have more mitochondria in my adipose tissue and perhaps even muscle, like that's been shown.
但我想要适应寒冷，因为这意味着我的脂肪组织甚至肌肉中有更多的线粒体，就像已经显示的那样。
Shivering is a very inefficient way to produce heat, which is what your body's trying to do when it's exposed to cold.
发抖是一种非常低效的产生热量的方式，而这正是你的身体在暴露于寒冷时试图产生的热量。
And your muscles are basically contracting and producing heat from that, but that's just not very efficient.
你的肌肉基本上是在收缩并从中产生热量，但这并不是很有效。
So the more eloquent way to do it, or elegant, I guess, way to do it is to basically have your mitochondria produce tons and tons of heat.
因此，更雄辩的方法，或者说优雅的方法，我想，基本上是让你的线粒体产生大量的热量。
So mitochondria are these little organelles inside of your cells that are responsible for producing energy.
线粒体是细胞内负责产生能量的小细胞器。
Usually, that's in the form of adenosine triphosphate, ATP, and that's what lets everything function inside your body, from your neurotransmitter production to your heart beating, et cetera.
通常，它以三磷酸腺苷（ATP）的形式存在，它是让你体内的一切发挥作用的东西，从你的神经递质的产生到你的心脏跳动等等。
Basically, your mitochondria, they're like a little battery.
基本上，你的线粒体就像一块小电池。
Well, they have a double membrane, first of all, their structure, but they have a negative charge on the inside, and they have a positive charge on the inner membrane.
嗯，它们有双层膜，首先是它们的结构，但是它们内部带负电荷，而内膜带正电荷。
Basically, you can uncouple that charge, and so that positive charge protons start leaking out of the mitochondria, and your mitochondria freak out.
基本上，你可以解开该电荷，这样带正电荷的质子就开始从线粒体中泄漏出来，你的线粒体就会崩溃。
So this is called uncoupling it.
所以这就是所谓的解耦。
And they start to, it's maximum respiration, as we call it.
他们开始意识到，这是我们所说的最大呼吸。
They try to make as much energy.
他们试图产生尽可能多的能量。
They're like, "I got to get that proton back, that gradient, the electrochemical gradient." And so they just go insane, and in this case, it's uncoupled energy, so the energy they're making is actually heat, not ATP.
他们就像是，“我必须取回质子、梯度、电化学梯度。”所以他们就会发疯，在这种情况下，它是解耦的能量，所以他们产生的能量实际上是热量，而不是 ATP。
But you're essentially burning substrate, so who cares?
但你本质上是在燃烧基质，所以谁在乎呢？
You're burning glucose, you're burning your lipids.
你正在燃烧葡萄糖，你正在燃烧你的脂质。
You're basically burning things and making heat.
你基本上是在燃烧东西并产生热量。
And so that's what uncoupling it does, and that is a much more efficient way of producing heat than shivering.
这就是解耦的作用，这是一种比发抖更有效的产生热量的方式。
And so as you become more adapted, maybe the longer duration that you've stayed in the cold or the more times you've done it, you'll no longer shiver anymore.
所以当你变得更加适应时，也许你在寒冷中呆的时间越长或者你这样做的次数越多，你就不会再发抖了。
You will start to then just do this uncoupling type of thermogenesis, as it's called.
然后你将开始进行这种所谓的解耦类型的生热作用。
And another type of adaptation that occurs is you actually produce more mitochondria in your adipose tissue.
另一种发生的适应是你的脂肪组织中实际上产生了更多的线粒体。
And that actually happens, also regulated by norepinephrine or noradrenaline, through a protein called PGC1alpha.
这确实发生了，也是由去甲肾上腺素或去甲肾上腺素通过一种名为 PGC1alpha 的蛋白质调节的。
And what that protein does is it makes more mitochondria in your adipose cells.
这种蛋白质的作用是在你的脂肪细胞中产生更多的线粒体。
So per adipose cell, you're getting more mitochondria.
因此，每个脂肪细胞都会获得更多的线粒体。
It's a beautiful way to basically make more heat when you're...
这是一种很好的方式，可以在你...时产生更多热量。
It's one of those things where it's like your body's going, "Okay, I'm going to be exposed to this cold next time.
这是你的身体会感觉的事情之一，“好吧，下次我会暴露在这种寒冷中。
How can I make sure I don't die?
我怎样才能保证自己不会死？
Oh, I can have more mitochondria and I'm going to make more heat." And so you're making more mitochondria in your adipose tissue.
哦，我可以有更多的线粒体，我就能产生更多的热量。”所以你的脂肪组织中会产生更多的线粒体。
And this is often referred to as the browning of fat.
这通常被称为脂肪褐变。
And the reason for that is because if you look under a microscope at a lipid droplet, basically a fat cell, not a lipid droplet, an adipocyte, you'll find that it looks darker because there's more mitochondria in there.
原因是如果你在显微镜下观察脂滴，基本上是脂肪细胞，而不是脂滴，脂肪细胞，你会发现它看起来更黑，因为里面有更多的线粒体。
So it's referred to as browning fat.
因此它被称为褐变脂肪。
That's awesome.
太棒了。
You want more mitochondria in your muscle.
你需要肌肉中有更多的线粒体。
It's associated with improved muscle mass, improved endurance.
它与改善肌肉质量和提高耐力有关。
Mitochondria are essentially They're making energy in your cell.
线粒体本质上是它们在细胞中产生能量。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we don't make more mitochondria normally.
正常情况下我们不会产生更多的线粒体。
You have certain inputs.
你有一定的投入。
High intensity interval training exercise can do it.
高强度间歇训练运动就可以做到。
Your cells are turning over.
你的细胞正在转变。
You make new cells, you replace old ones.
你制造新细胞，替换旧细胞。
With your mitochondria, you don't really do that for the most part.
对于线粒体来说，大部分情况下你并不会真正做到这一点。
You can.
你可以。
Mitochondrial biogenesis does happen, but you have to stimulate it to happen.
线粒体生物发生确实发生，但你必须刺激它发生。
And what happens with your mitochondria is they essentially are bobbing around inside of your cells, and then they fuse with other mitochondria, exchange all their content and mitochondrial DNA, and then fizz back apart.
线粒体本质上是在细胞内部摆动，然后与其他线粒体融合，交换所有内容物和线粒体 DNA，然后再次分开。
And that's how they kind of stay youngish.
这就是他们保持年轻的方式。
But as you age, you keep doing that with the same pool of mitochondria, and you're going to get a bunch of old mitochondria mixing old stuff together, right?
但随着年龄的增长，你会继续使用相同的线粒体池来这样做，你会得到一堆旧的线粒体将旧的东西混合在一起，对吧？
So why wouldn't you want to bring up new, healthy, young mitochondria into that pool, right?
那么你为什么不想将新的、健康的、年轻的线粒体带入该池中，对吧？
So in my mind, when I hear mitochondrial biogenesis, I'm like, "Aging." That's the first thing I think of.
所以在我看来，当我听到线粒体生物发生时，我想，“衰老”。这是我首先想到的。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So anyways, cold exposure does that.
无论如何，寒冷暴露可以做到这一点。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
What sort of cardiovascular or other types of training do you do?
您进行什么类型的心血管或其他类型的训练？
Do you do HIIT?
你做HIIT吗？
I imagine you are doing high intensity interval training.
我想您正在进行高强度间歇训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do a lot of high intensity interval Tabatas on a stationary cycle three times a week, and I do a 10-minute, just 10, because it's efficient and I push my ass.
我每周做 3 次固定周期的大量高强度间歇 Tabatas，每次 10 分钟，只做 10 次，因为它效率很高，而且我会全力以赴。
I push myself really hard.
我真的很努力地逼自己。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
That's the Tabata.
这就是塔巴塔。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's 20 seconds on, 10 seconds off, and it's 10 minutes.
开启 20 秒，关闭 10 秒，持续 10 分钟。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
And on means you're pedaling like your life depended on it.
开启意味着您正在踩踏板，就像您的生命依赖于它一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're maxing it.
你已经把它发挥到最大了。
And then I always have my sauna on pre-heating up.
然后我总是将桑拿房预热。
I get it to about 189 degrees Fahrenheit.
我把温度调到了大约 189 华氏度。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I hop right in the sauna after my Peloton.
我跟着我的大部队直接跳进桑拿房。
I literally down a bunch of water, and then I get in, and then I either read a science paper or prepare for a presentation or a podcast, or I hash over things in my mind.
我实际上是喝了一堆水，然后我进去了，然后我要么阅读一篇科学论文，要么准备一个演示或播客，或者我在脑海中思考一些事情。
And it's interesting because I would use the sauna to memorize things.
这很有趣，因为我会用桑拿来记忆东西。
I don't know if it has to do with the stress response.
不知道和应激反应有没有关系。
When you have an emotional trigger, you remember things better, right?
当你有情绪触发时，你会更好地记住事情，对吗？
I mean-
我的意思是——
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
The idea that being in this semi-stressful environment would aid in the learning and retention of information is really well substantiated by this beautiful work by a guy named James McGaw.
詹姆斯·麦高 (James McGaw) 的这部精美作品充分证实了处于这种半压力环境中有助于学习和保留信息的想法。
He was at UC Irvine for a while, and then I think at University of Arizona as well.
他在加州大学欧文分校呆过一段时间，然后我想也在亚利桑那大学。
They have a great memory group at both places.
他们在这两个地方都有很好的记忆力。
Very strong in learning and memory at both places.
两地的学习力和记忆力都很强。
And he was the one that really defined this kind of inverted U-shaped function for the relationship between adrenaline and memory.
而他才是真正为肾上腺素与记忆之间的关系定义了这种倒U型函数的人。
Basically, if you're too relaxed and not stressed enough, you're not going to remember any information.
基本上，如果你太放松并且压力不够，你就不会记住任何信息。
At peak levels of stress, you actually are a memory machine, at least within the context of whatever it is you're trying to learn.
在压力达到峰值时，你实际上是一台记忆机器，至少在你想要学习的内容范围内是这样。
So what you're describing very well matches with that.
所以你所描述的非常符合。
And then, of course, it tapers off as you really increase adrenaline to the point where people are starting to lose autonomic function, where they're panicking, basically.
当然，当你的肾上腺素真正增加到人们开始失去自主功能、基本上感到恐慌的程度时，它就会逐渐减弱。
The other thing that I would like to ask you about is in the sauna, of course, there's vasodilation, and perfusion of blood to the brain is a wonderful way to enhance cognition.
我想问你的另一件事是，在桑拿房里，当然有血管舒张的作用，给大脑灌注血液是增强认知的绝妙方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The vasodilation does occur, so there's a lot of overlap between moderate intensity aerobic exercise and heat stress.
血管舒张确实会发生，因此中等强度的有氧运动和热应激之间有很多重叠。
And as you can imagine, when you're exercising, you're elevating your core body temperature.
正如您可以想象的那样，当您锻炼时，您的核心体温会升高。
You're sweating.
你出汗了。
And when you're actually in the sauna, blood does get redistributed to the skin to facilitate sweating.
当你真正在桑拿房时，血液确实会重新分配到皮肤以促进出汗。
But much like exercise, blood flow in general is improved to the brain, to the muscles, everywhere.
但就像锻炼一样，大脑、肌肉、各个部位的血液流动总体上得到改善。
So I think generally speaking that...
所以我认为一般来说...
And there's studies showing that sauna use is associated with a much lower risk of dementia and Alzheimer's disease.
研究表明，蒸桑拿可以大大降低患痴呆症和阿尔茨海默病的风险。
People that use it four to seven times a week have greater than 60% reduction in dementia risk and Alzheimer's disease risk compared to people that use it only one time a week.
与每周仅使用一次的人相比，每周使用四到七次的人患痴呆症和阿尔茨海默病的风险降低了 60% 以上。
People that use it two to three times a week have something like a little greater than 20% reduction in risk.
每周使用 2 到 3 次的人，风险会降低 20% 以上。
There's a dose-dependent effect on dementia risk and Alzheimer's disease risk.
对痴呆风险和阿尔茨海默病风险存在剂量依赖性影响。
There's a big link between the cardiovascular system and the brain.
心血管系统和大脑之间存在很大的联系。
Obviously, blood flow, a big one, right?
显然，血流量很大吧？
You need to get blood to your brain.
你需要让血液进入你的大脑。
But cardiovascular mortality, so mortality from cardiovascular disease if people use...
但是心血管死亡率，因此如果人们使用心血管疾病导致的死亡率......
Or actually, this was men.
或者实际上，这是男人。
If men use the sauna four to seven times a week, it's a 50% reduction in cardiovascular-related mortality compared to one time a week.
如果男性每周使用桑拿四到七次，与每周使用一次相比，心血管相关死亡率可降低 50%。
Again, dose-dependent manner.
再次，剂量依赖性方式。
Two to three times a week is something like 24% lower death from cardiovascular disease.
每周 2 至 3 次，心血管疾病死亡率可降低约 24%。
There's also lower sudden cardiac death, so like a heart attack, that's greater than 60% lower if men use it four to seven times a week versus once.
与心脏病发作一样，如果男性每周使用四到七次，与一次相比，心源性猝死的发生率也会降低 60% 以上。
Again, a dose-dependent thing.
同样，剂量依赖性。
And this is all work from Dr Jari Laukkanen.
这都是 Jari Laukkanen 博士的工作。
He's in the University of Eastern Finland and just one of the world experts on sauna use.
他在东芬兰大学工作，是世界上桑拿使用方面的专家之一。
The more you do the sauna or any sort of heat stress, whether it's a hot tub or jacuzzi, you become adapted.
你洗桑拿或任何形式的热应激的次数越多，无论是热水浴缸还是按摩浴缸，你就会适应。
You basically start to sweat at a lower core body temperature to cool yourself down.
基本上，您会在较低的核心体温下开始出汗，以使自己降温。
All these sort of physiological changes start to happen earlier.
所有这些生理变化开始发生得更早。
And so I stay in for like 30 minutes.
所以我在里面待了大约 30 分钟。
So I stay in a long time.
所以我呆了很长时间。
That's a lot.
就这么多了。
You have to listen to your body.
你必须倾听你的身体。
Most of the studies that I just talked about were from the duration, the time spent in the sauna.
我刚才讲的大部分研究都是从持续时间，在桑拿房里度过的时间来进行的。
When I said 50% reduction in cardiovascular disease-related death, what was shown was that men that were in the sauna for only 11 minutes, even if they used it four to seven times a week, that reduction was only like 8% instead of 50.
当我说与心血管疾病相关的死亡减少 50% 时，结果显示，男性只蒸桑拿 11 分钟，即使他们每周使用四到七次，这种减少也只有 8% 左右，而不是 50%。
It had to be greater than 19 minutes.
时间必须大于 19 分钟。
So like 20 minutes is the sweet spot at about 174 degrees Fahrenheit.
因此，大约 174 华氏度时 20 分钟是最佳时间。
To me, that's very strong data that this is more causal than some corollary thing.
对我来说，这是非常有力的数据，表明这比某些推论更具因果关系。
Because that's always the problem with observational studies, including these, which they corrected for a whole host of factors like cholesterol, exercise, just everything under the sun.
因为这始终是观察性研究的问题，包括这些研究，他们对胆固醇、锻炼等一系列因素进行了纠正。
They corrected for those.
他们纠正了这些。
And on top of that, you have the dose-dependent nature of the duration, the time spent in the sauna, and the frequency.
最重要的是，持续时间、桑拿时间和频率都与剂量有关。
So to me, it's like something's going on here.
所以对我来说，这就像这里正在发生一些事情。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Plus, there's been intervention studies where it's like comparing directly head-to-head moderate or intensity aerobic exercise on a stationary cycle to 20 minutes in a sauna.
另外，还有一些干预研究，就像直接将固定循环中的头对头中等或强度有氧运动与桑拿浴室中的 20 分钟进行比较。
They're physiologically the same things happen.
从生理上讲，它们发生的事情是相同的。
So heart rate elevates while you're doing the activity, blood pressure increases while you're doing the activity, but then after, resting heart rate decreases below baseline.
因此，当您进行活动时心率会升高，血压会在您进行活动时升高，但之后静息心率会降至基线以下。
Blood pressure is improved, so it decreases below baseline.
血压得到改善，因此降至基线以下。
This is happening the same in moderate intensity cycling versus sauna.
在中等强度的自行车运动和桑拿中，这种情况也是一样的。
So again, this sauna, this heat stress, there's something about it that really mimics this moderate intensity aerobic exercise, which is really great for people that can't go for a run, that can't even get on a bike.
再说一次，这种桑拿，这种热应激，它确实模仿了这种中等强度的有氧运动，这对于不能跑步、甚至不能骑自行车的人来说真的很棒。
So disabled people, granted there are some safety concerns.
因此，残疾人当然有一些安全问题。
They're pretty mild, but they do exist.
它们很温和，但它们确实存在。
So people that had a recent heart attack or have some rare kind of heart disease or problem.
最近心脏病发作或患有某种罕见心脏病或问题的人。
Drinking alcohol, never do that.
喝酒，千万不要这样做。
Elderly people prone to low blood pressure.
老年人容易出现低血压。
Always talk to a physician before doing the sauna.
做桑拿之前一定要先咨询医生。
It is stressful.
这是有压力的。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Pregnant.
怀孕了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Pregnant women.
孕妇。
Oh, yeah, I definitely avoided saunas when I was pregnant.
哦，是的，我怀孕时绝对避免蒸桑拿。
So for those healthy, fit people out there already exercising, there's a synergistic effect by also adding a sauna into that routine.
因此，对于那些已经在锻炼的健康、健康的人来说，在日常锻炼中加入桑拿会产生协同效应。
And to me, that's great.
对我来说，这很棒。
And there's so many beneficial things happening with the heat stress.
热应激会带来很多有益的事情。
In addition to mimicking aerobic exercise, there's the heat shock proteins that we talked about earlier.
除了模仿有氧运动之外，还有我们之前讨论过的热休克蛋白。
Many animal studies have been done looking at Alzheimer's disease, a human-like Alzheimer's disease in a rodent, and heat shock proteins protecting from it.
许多动物研究都针对阿尔茨海默病（一种啮齿类动物的类似人类阿尔茨海默病）以及热休克蛋白的保护作用进行了研究。
So heat shock proteins are robustly activated in humans.
因此，热休克蛋白在人体中被强烈激活。
This has been shown to even 50% higher over baseline levels after just 30 minutes at 163 degrees Fahrenheit in the sauna.
事实证明，在 163 华氏度的桑拿浴室中浸泡 30 分钟后，这一水平甚至比基线水平高出 50%。
And they stay activated, at least in rodents, for 48 hours at least.
而且它们至少在啮齿类动物中保持激活状态至少 48 小时。
So having these heat shock proteins around, making sure they're properly taking care of our proteins so they're not aggregating in our brains and in our plaques could be another potential way that sauna's protecting from Alzheimer's disease and other cardiovascular health, as well as longevity.
因此，让这些热休克蛋白存在于周围，确保它们正确地照顾我们的蛋白质，使它们不会在我们的大脑和斑块中聚集，可能是桑拿房预防阿尔茨海默病和其他心血管健康以及长寿的另一种潜在方式。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
I know people are probably desperate to know what if they don't have a sauna?
我知道人们可能非常想知道如果他们没有桑拿怎么办？
I could imagine that a hot bath would work almost as well.
我可以想象洗个热水澡也差不多。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So there's been some studies looking at, for example, activation of heat shock proteins, also brain-derived neurotrophic factor increases with heat stress.
因此，有一些研究着眼于热休克蛋白的激活，以及脑源性神经营养因子随热应激的增加。
And so the hot bath at around 104 degrees Fahrenheit, which is typically what studies will use for temperature, and it's 20 minutes from the shoulders down.
因此，热水浴的温度约为 104 华氏度，这通常是研究中使用的温度，从肩膀向下洗 20 分钟。
And that is a very robust activation in heat shock proteins and in brain-derived neurotrophic factor.
这是热休克蛋白和脑源性神经营养因子中非常强烈的激活。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then heat shock proteins are also protecting against muscle atrophy, so that's also having to do with the protein structure and the muscle tissue as well.
热休克蛋白还可以防止肌肉萎缩，因此这也与蛋白质结构和肌肉组织有关。
And this has been studies in animal data as well as some recent human data as well.
这是对动物数据以及最近的一些人类数据的研究。
It was local hyperthermia or local heat treatment.
这是局部热疗或局部热处理。
But essentially, it showed that it protected...
但本质上，它表明它保护了......
There was a study where they were looking at muscle disuse, and it was something like the local heat treatment prevented almost 40% of the muscle atrophy from disuse.
有一项研究研究了肌肉废用，局部热处理可以防止近 40% 的肌肉废用萎缩。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
We covered a lot of territory, but I just want to thank you again.
我们涵盖了很多领域，但我想再次感谢你们。
It was extremely thorough and extremely informative.
这是非常彻底和信息丰富的。
On behalf of the listeners and just directly from me, thank you so much for your time.
我谨代表听众并直接代表我，非常感谢您抽出宝贵的时间。
I learned a ton.
我学到了很多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
My pleasure.
我很高兴。
Thanks for having me on.
谢谢你邀请我参加。
It was a really awesome conversation, so I enjoyed it a lot.
这是一次非常棒的谈话，所以我很享受。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Let's do it again.
让我们再做一次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Totally.
完全可以。
Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
朗达·帕特里克博士：
Great.
太棒了。
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
"I don't think I can be your friend," Isabella said.
“我想我不能成为你的朋友，”伊莎贝拉说。
Rebecca's stomach flipped.
丽贝卡的胃翻腾起来。
This is the love story of real Hinge couple Isabella and Rebecca, written and read by me, Tembi Denton-Hurst.
这是真实的铰链夫妇伊莎贝拉和丽贝卡的爱情故事，由我 Tembi Denton-Hurst 撰写和阅读。
Listen to the free audiobook now.
立即收听免费有声读物。