Essentials: Machines, Creativity & Love | Dr. Lex Fridman
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Welcome to Huberman Lab Essentials, where we revisit past episodes for the most potent and actionable science-based tools for mental health, physical health, and performance.
欢迎来到 Huberman Lab Essentials，在这里我们回顾过去的剧集，寻找针对心理健康、身体健康和表现的最有效、最可操作的基于科学的工具。
And now, my conversation with Dr. Lex Fridman.
现在，我与莱克斯·弗里德曼博士的对话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We meet again.
我们又见面了。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
We meet again.
我们又见面了。
I have a question that I think is on a lot of people's minds or ought to be on a lot of people's minds.
我有一个问题，我认为很多人都在思考或者应该在很多人的脑海中思考。
What is artificial intelligence, and how is it different from things like machine learning and robotics?
什么是人工智能？它与机器学习和机器人技术有何不同？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I think of artificial intelligence first as a big philosophical thing.
所以我首先认为人工智能是一个重大的哲学问题。
It's our longing to create other intelligent systems, perhaps systems more powerful than us.
我们渴望创造其他智能系统，也许比我们更强大的系统。
At the more narrow level, I think it's also a set of tools that are computational mathematical tools to automate different tasks.
在更狭义的层面上，我认为它也是一组工具，是自动化不同任务的计算数学工具。
And then also, it's our attempt to understand our own mind.
此外，这是我们尝试了解自己的想法。
So build systems that exhibit some intelligent behavior in order to understand what is intelligence in our own selves.
因此，构建表现出某些智能行为的系统，以便了解什么是我们自己的智能。
So all those things are true.
所以所有这些都是真的。
Of course, what AI really means as a community, as a set of researchers and engineers, it's a set of tools, a set of computational techniques that allow you to solve various problems.
当然，人工智能作为一个社区、一组研究人员和工程师的真正含义是一组工具、一组计算技术，可以让你解决各种问题。
There's a long history that approaches the problem from different perspectives.
从不同角度处理这个问题的历史由来已久。
What's always been throughout one of the threads, one of the communities, goes under the flag of machine learning, which is emphasizing, in the AI space, the task of learning.
贯穿其中一个主题、一个社区的始终是机器学习的旗帜，它强调人工智能领域的学习任务。
How do you make a machine that knows very little in the beginning, follow some kind of process, and learns to become better and better at a particular task?
如何制造一台一开始知道得很少的机器，遵循某种过程，并学习在特定任务上变得越来越好？
What's been most very effective in the recent, about 15 years, is a set of techniques that fall under the flag of deep learning, that utilize neural networks.
最近（大约 15 年）最有效的是一组属于深度学习旗帜的技术，它们利用神经网络。
It's a network of these little basic computational units called neurons, artificial neurons, and these architectures have an input and an output.
它是一个由称为神经元、人工神经元的基本计算单元组成的网络，这些架构有输入和输出。
They know nothing in the beginning, and they're tasked with learning something interesting.
他们一开始什么都不知道，他们的任务是学习一些有趣的东西。
What that something interesting is usually involves a particular task.
有趣的事情通常涉及特定的任务。
There's a lot of ways to talk about this and break this down.
有很多方法可以讨论并分解它。
One of them is how much human supervision is required to teach this thing.
其中之一是需要多少人工监督来教授这件事。
So supervised learning, this broad category, is the neural network knows nothing in the beginning, and then it's given a bunch of examples of, in computer vision, that would be examples of cats, dogs, cars, traffic signs, and then you're given the image and you're given the ground truth of what's in that image.
因此，监督学习，这个广泛的类别，是神经网络一开始什么都不知道，然后它给出了一堆计算机视觉的例子，比如猫、狗、汽车、交通标志的例子，然后你得到了图像，你得到了该图像中内容的基本事实。
And when you get a large database of such image examples where you know the truth, the neural network is able to learn by example.
当你获得一个包含了解真相的此类图像示例的大型数据库时，神经网络就能够通过示例进行学习。
That's called supervised learning.
这就是所谓的监督学习。
There's a lot of fascinating questions within that, which is how do you provide the truth?
其中有很多令人着迷的问题，那就是你如何提供真相？
When you're given an image of a cat, how do you provide to the computer that this image contains a cat?
当给你一张猫的图像时，你如何向计算机提供该图像包含猫？
Do you just say the entire image is a picture of a cat?
你刚才说整个图像是一张猫的照片吗？
Do you do what's very commonly been done, which is a bounding box?
你会做一些非常常见的事情，即边界框吗？
You have a very crude box around the cat's face saying, "This is a cat." Do you do semantic segmentation?
猫的脸上有一个非常粗糙的盒子，上面写着：“这是一只猫。”你做语义分割吗？
Mind you, this is a 2D image of a cat.
请注意，这是猫的 2D 图像。
The computer knows nothing about our three-dimensional world.
计算机对我们的三维世界一无所知。
It's just looking at a set of pixels.
它只是查看一组像素。
So semantic segmentation is drawing a nice, very crisp outline around the cat and saying, "That's a cat." That's really difficult to provide that truth, and one of the fundamental open questions in computer vision is, is that even a good representation of the truth?
因此，语义分割正在猫周围画出一个漂亮、非常清晰的轮廓，并说：“那是一只猫。”提供事实真相确实很困难，计算机视觉中基本的开放问题之一是，这是否能很好地表示事实真相？
Now, there's another contrasting set of ideas.
现在，还有另一组截然不同的想法。
They're a tension, they're overlapping, is what used to be called unsupervised learning, what's commonly now called self-supervised learning, which is trying to get less and less and less human supervision into the task.
它们是一种张力，它们是重叠的，这就是过去所谓的无监督学习，现在通常称为自我监督学习，它试图让越来越少的人类监督进入任务。
So self-supervised learning has been very successful in the domain of language models, natural language processing, and now more and more is being successful in computer vision tasks.
因此，自监督学习在语言模型、自然语言处理领域非常成功，现在在计算机视觉任务中也越来越成功。
And the idea there is let the machine, without any ground truth annotation, just look at pictures on the internet or look at text on the internet and try to learn something generalizable about the ideas that are at the core of language or at the core of vision.
这个想法是让机器在没有任何真实注释的情况下，只需查看互联网上的图片或互联网上的文本，并尝试学习一些关于语言核心或视觉核心的想法的可概括的东西。
And based on that, we humans, at its best, like to call that common sense.
基于此，我们人类在最好的情况下喜欢称之为常识。
So we have this giant base of knowledge on top of which we build more sophisticated knowledge.
因此，我们拥有庞大的知识基础，在此基础上我们构建了更复杂的知识。
We have this kind of common sense knowledge.
我们有这样的常识性知识。
And so the idea with self-supervised learning is to build this common sense knowledge about what are the fundamental visual ideas that make up a cat and a dog and all those kinds of things without ever having human supervision.
因此，自我监督学习的想法是建立常识性知识，了解构成猫和狗以及所有此类事物的基本视觉概念，而无需人工监督。
The dream there is you just let an AI system that's self-supervised run around the internet for a while, watch YouTube videos for millions and millions of hours, and without any supervision, be primed and ready to actually learn with very few examples once the human is able to show up.
我们的梦想是让一个自我监督的人工智能系统在互联网上运行一段时间，观看 YouTube 视频数百万小时，在没有任何监督的情况下，一旦人类能够出现，就可以通过很少的例子做好准备并准备好实际学习。
We think of children in this way, human children, is your parents only give one or two examples to teach a concept.
我们是这样看待孩子的，人类的孩子，就是你父母只举一两个例子来教一个概念。
The dream with self-supervised learning is that would be the same with machines.
自我监督学习的梦想是与机器一样。
That they would watch millions of hours of YouTube videos and then come to a human and be able to understand when the human shows them, "This is a cat." Like remember this a cat.
他们会观看数百万小时的 YouTube 视频，然后来到人类面前，当人类向他们展示“这是一只猫”时，他们能够理解。就像记住这是一只猫一样。
They will understand that a cat is not just a thing with pointy ears or a cat is a thing that's orange or is furry.
他们会明白猫不仅仅是有尖耳朵的东西，或者猫是橙色或毛茸茸的东西。
They'll see something more fundamental that we humans might not actually be able to introspect and understand.
他们会看到一些我们人类实际上可能无法反省和理解的更基本的东西。
Like if I asked you what makes a cat versus a dog, you would probably not be able to answer that.
就像如果我问你什么是猫和狗，你可能无法回答。
But if I showed you, brought you a cat and a dog, you would be able to tell the difference.
但如果我给你看，给你带来一只猫和一只狗，你就能分辨出来。
What are the ideas that your brain uses to make that difference?
你的大脑使用什么想法来产生这种差异？
That's the whole dream with self-supervised learning is it would be able to learn that on its own, that set of common sense knowledge that's able to tell the difference.
这就是自我监督学习的全部梦想，它能够自己学习一套能够区分差异的常识知识。
And then there's a lot of incredible uses of self-supervised learning, very weirdly called self-play mechanism.
然后，自我监督学习有很多令人难以置信的用途，非常奇怪地称为自我游戏机制。
That's the mechanism behind the reinforcement learning successes of the systems that won at Go, at AlphaZero, that won at chess.
这就是围棋、AlphaZero、国际象棋获胜的系统的强化学习成功背后的机制。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Oh, I see.
哦，我明白了。
That play games.
那个打游戏。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That play games.
那个打游戏。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Got it.
明白了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the idea of self-play, this probably applies to other domains than just games, is a system that just plays against itself.
因此，自我对战的想法可能适用于游戏以外的其他领域，它是一个只与自己对抗的系统。
And this is fascinating in all kinds of domains, but it knows nothing in the beginning, and the whole idea is it creates a bunch of mutations of itself and plays against those versions of itself.
这在各个领域都是令人着迷的，但它一开始什么都不知道，整个想法是它创建了一堆自身的突变并与自己的这些版本进行对抗。
And then through this process of interacting with systems just a little better than you, you start following this process where everybody starts getting better and better and better and better until you are several orders of magnitude better than the world champion in chess, for example.
然后，通过与比你稍微好一点的系统交互的过程，你开始遵循这个过程，每个人都开始变得越来越好，越来越好，直到你比国际象棋世界冠军好几个数量级。
And it's fascinating because it's like a runaway system.
它很有趣，因为它就像一个失控的系统。
One of the most terrifying and exciting things that David Silver, the creator of AlphaGo and AlphaZero, one of the leaders of the team said, to me, is they haven't found the ceiling for AlphaZero, meaning it could just arbitrarily keep improving.
AlphaGo 和 AlphaZero 的创始人、该团队的领导者之一 David Silver 对我说的最可怕和令人兴奋的事情之一是，他们还没有找到 AlphaZero 的上限，这意味着它可以任意地不断改进。
Now, in the realm of chess, that doesn't matter to us, that it just ran away with the game of chess.
现在，在国际象棋领域，这对我们来说并不重要，它只是逃离了国际象棋比赛。
It's just so much better than humans.
简直比人类好太多了。
But the question is, what if you can create that in the realm that does have a bigger, deeper effect on human beings, on societies, that could be a terrifying process.
但问题是，如果你能在一个确实对人类、社会产生更大、更深影响的领域创造出这样的东西，那可能会是一个可怕的过程。
To me, it's an exciting process if you supervise it correctly, if you inject what's called value alignment.
对我来说，如果你正确地监督它，如果你注入所谓的价值调整，这是一个令人兴奋的过程。
You make sure that the goals that the AI is optimizing is aligned with human beings and human societies.
您确保人工智能正在优化的目标与人类和人类社会保持一致。
There's a lot of fascinating things to talk about within the specifics of neural networks and all the problems that people are working on.
在神经网络的细节和人们正在解决的所有问题中，有很多有趣的事情可以讨论。
But I would say the really big exciting one is self-supervised learning, where trying to get less and less human supervision of neural networks.
但我想说，真正令人兴奋的是自我监督学习，即试图让人类对神经网络的监督越来越少。
And also, just to comment, and I'll shut up.
而且，只是为了发表评论，我会闭嘴。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
No, please keep going.
不，请继续。
I'm learning.
我正在学习。
I have questions, but I'm learning, so please keep going.
我有疑问，但我正在学习，所以请继续。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So to me, what's exciting is not the theory, it's always the application.
所以对我来说，令人兴奋的不是理论，而是应用。
One of the most exciting applications of artificial intelligence, specifically neural networks and machine learning, is Tesla Autopilot.
人工智能（特别是神经网络和机器学习）最令人兴奋的应用之一是特斯拉自动驾驶仪。
So these are systems that are working in the real world.
所以这些是在现实世界中运行的系统。
This isn't an academic exercise.
这不是学术练习。
This is human lives at stake.
这是人的生命受到威胁。
Even though it's called the FSD, Full Self-Driving, it is currently not fully autonomous, meaning human supervision is required.
尽管它被称为 FSD（全自动驾驶），但目前它还不是完全自主的，这意味着需要人工监督。
So human is tasked with overseeing the systems.
因此，人类的任务是监督系统。
In fact, liability-wise, the human is always responsible.
事实上，就责任而言，人类总是有责任的。
This is a human factor psychology question, which is fascinating.
这是一个人为因素心理学问题，很有趣。
I'm fascinated by the whole space, which is a whole another space of human-robot interaction.
我对整个空间很着迷，这是一个完全不同的人机交互空间。
When AI systems and humans work together to accomplish tasks.
当人工智能系统和人类共同努力完成任务时。
That dance to me is one of the smaller communities, but I think it will be one of the most important open problems once they're solved, is how do humans and robots dance together?
对我来说，这种舞蹈是较小的社区之一，但我认为一旦解决，这将是最重要的开放问题之一，即人类和机器人如何一起跳舞？
To me, semi-autonomous driving is one of those spaces.
对我来说，半自动驾驶就是其中之一。
So for Elon, for example, he doesn't see it that way.
例如，对于埃隆来说，他并不这么认为。
He sees semi-autonomous driving as a stepping stone towards fully autonomous driving.
他认为半自动驾驶是迈向全自动驾驶的垫脚石。
Like humans and robots can't dance well together.
就像人类和机器人不能一起跳舞一样。
Like humans and humans dance and robots and robots dance.
就像人类和人类跳舞，机器人和机器人跳舞一样。
This is an engineering problem.
这是一个工程问题。
We need to design a perfect robot that solves this problem.
我们需要设计一个完美的机器人来解决这个问题。
To me, forever, maybe this is not the case with driving, but the world is going to be full of problems where it's always humans and robots have to interact because I think robots will always be flawed, just like humans are going to be flawed, are flawed, and that's what makes life beautiful, that they're flawed.
对我来说，永远，也许驾驶的情况并非如此，但世界将充满问题，人类和机器人总是必须互动，因为我认为机器人总是有缺陷的，就像人类会有缺陷一样，有缺陷，这就是让生活变得美丽的原因，因为它们有缺陷。
That's where learning happens, at the edge of your capabilities.
这就是学习发生的地方，在你能力的边缘。
So you always have to figure out how can flawed robots and flawed humans interact together such that the sum is bigger than the whole, as opposed to focusing on just building the perfect robot.
因此，你总是必须弄清楚有缺陷的机器人和有缺陷的人类如何相互作用，使总和大于整体，而不是专注于建造完美的机器人。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So that's one of the most exciting applications, I would say, of artificial intelligence to me, is autonomous driving and semi-autonomous driving.
所以我想说，对我来说，人工智能最令人兴奋的应用之一就是自动驾驶和半自动驾驶。
And that's a really good example of machine learning because those systems are constantly learning.
这是机器学习的一个很好的例子，因为这些系统在不断学习。
And there's a process there that maybe I can comment on.
那里有一个流程，也许我可以评论一下。
Andrej Karpathy, who's the head of Autopilot, calls it the data engine.
Autopilot 的负责人安德烈·卡帕蒂 (Andrej Karpathy) 将其称为数据引擎。
And this process applies for a lot of machine learning, which is you build a system that's pretty good at doing stuff, you send it out into the real world, it starts doing the stuff, and then it runs into what are called edge cases, like failure cases, where it screws up.
这个过程适用于很多机器学习，即你构建一个非常擅长做事情的系统，你将它发送到现实世界，它开始做这些事情，然后它遇到所谓的边缘情况，比如失败情况，在那里它搞砸了。
We do this as kids.
我们小时候就这样做。
That you know, you-
你知道的，你——
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
We do this as adults.
我们作为成年人这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We do this as adults, exactly.
我们作为成年人确实这样做。
But we learn really quickly.
但我们学得很快。
But the whole point, and this is the fascinating thing about driving, is you realize there's millions of edge cases.
但重点是，这就是驾驶的迷人之处，就是你意识到有数百万种边缘情况。
There's just weird situations that you did not expect.
只是有些奇怪的情况是你没有预料到的。
And so the data engine process is you collect those edge cases, and then you go back to the drawing board and learn from them.
因此，数据引擎过程就是收集这些边缘情况，然后返回绘图板并从中学习。
And so you have to create this data pipeline where all these cars, hundreds of thousands of cars, are just driving around, and something weird happens.
所以你必须创建这个数据管道，所有这些汽车，数十万辆汽车，只是在周围行驶，然后就会发生一些奇怪的事情。
And so whenever this weird detector fires, it's another important concept, that piece of data goes back to the mothership for the training, for the retraining of the system.
因此，每当这个奇怪的探测器发射时，这是另一个重要的概念，该数据会返回母舰进行训练，用于系统的重新训练。
And through this data engine process, it keeps improving and getting better and better and better and better.
通过这个数据引擎流程，它不断改进，变得越来越好、越来越好。
So basically, you send out pretty clever AI systems out into the world and let it find the edge cases, let it screw up just enough to figure out where the edge cases are, and then go back and learn from them, and then send out that new version, and keep updating that version.
所以基本上，你向世界发送非常聪明的人工智能系统，让它找到边缘情况，让它搞砸，找出边缘情况在哪里，然后回去向它们学习，然后发送新版本，并不断更新该版本。
One of the fascinating things about humans is we figure out objective functions for ourselves.
人类最迷人的事情之一就是我们可以为自己找出目标函数。
It's the meaning of life.
这就是生命的意义。
Why the hell are we here?
我们到底为什么在这里？
And a machine currently has to have a hard-coded statement about why.
目前机器必须有一个关于原因的硬编码声明。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
It has to have a meaning of-
它必须具有这样的含义——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
...
...
artificial intelligence-based life.
基于人工智能的生活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
If you want a machine to be able to be good at stuff, it has to be given very clear statements of what good at stuff means.
如果你想让一台机器能够擅长做事，就必须非常清楚地说明擅长做事的含义。
That's one of the challenges of artificial intelligence, is in order to solve a problem, you have to formalize it, and you have to provide both the full sensory information.
这是人工智能的挑战之一，为了解决问题，你必须将其形式化，并且必须提供完整的感官信息。
You have to be very clear about what is the data that's being collected, and you have to also be clear about the objective function.
您必须非常清楚正在收集的数据是什么，并且还必须清楚目标函数。
What is the goal that you're trying to reach?
您想要达到的目标是什么？
Ultimately, currently, there has to be a formal objective function.
最终，目前必须有一个正式的目标函数。
Now, you could argue that humans also has a set of objective functions we're trying to optimize.
现在，您可能会说人类也有一组我们正在尝试优化的目标函数。
We're just not able to introspect them.
我们只是无法反省他们。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Yeah, we don't actually know what we're looking for and seeking and doing.
是的，我们实际上并不知道我们在寻找什么、在寻找什么、在做什么。
As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 daily for more than 13 years.
正如你们许多人所知，我每天服用 AG1 已经超过 13 年了。
However, I've now found an even better vitamin mineral probiotic drink.
然而，我现在找到了一种更好的维生素矿物质益生菌饮料。
That new and better drink is the new and improved AG1, which just launched this month.
这种新的、更好的饮料是新的和改进的 AG1，它于本月刚刚推出。
This next-gen formula from AG1 is a more advanced, clinically backed version of the product that I've been taking daily for years.
AG1 的新一代配方是我多年来每天服用的产品的更先进、经过临床支持的版本。
It includes new bioavailable nutrients and enhanced probiotics.
它包括新的生物可利用的营养素和增强的益生菌。
The next-gen formula is based on exciting new research on the effects of probiotics on the gut microbiome, and it now includes several specific clinically studied probiotic strains that have been shown to support both digestive health and immune system health, as well as to improve bowel regularity and to reduce bloating.
下一代配方基于关于益生菌对肠道微生物组影响的令人兴奋的新研究，它现在包括几种经过临床研究的特定益生菌菌株，这些菌株已被证明可以支持消化健康和免疫系统健康，以及改善肠道规律性和减少腹胀。
As someone who's been involved in research science for more than three decades, and in health and fitness for equally as long, I'm constantly looking for the best tools to improve my mental health, physical health, and performance.
作为一个从事科学研究超过三十年、在健康和健身领域也同样长期从事的人，我一直在寻找最好的工具来改善我的心理健康、身体健康和表现。
I discovered and started taking AG1 way back in 2012, long before I ever had a podcast, and I've been taking it every day since.
早在 2012 年，我就发现并开始服用 AG1，那时我还没有播客，从那时起我就每天都服用它。
I find that it greatly improves all aspects of my health.
我发现它极大地改善了我健康的各个方面。
I just feel so much better when I take it, but with each passing year, and by the way, I'm turning 50 this September, I continue to feel better and better, and I attribute a lot of that to AG1.
当我服用它时，我感觉好多了，但随着时间的流逝，顺便说一下，今年九月我就满 50 岁了，我的感觉越来越好，我将这很大程度上归功于 AG1。
AG1 uses the highest quality ingredients in the right combinations, and they're constantly improving their formulas without increasing the cost.
AG1 使用最优质的成分进行正确的组合，并且在不增加成本的情况下不断改进其配方。
So I'm honored to have them as a sponsor of this podcast.
所以我很荣幸他们成为这个播客的赞助商。
If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。
Right now, AG1 is giving away an AG1 welcome kit with five free travel packs and a free bottle of vitamin D3 K2.
现在，AG1 正在赠送 AG1 欢迎套件，其中包含五个免费旅行包和一瓶免费维生素 D3 K2。
Again, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim the special welcome kit with five free travel packs and a free bottle of vitamin D3 K2.
请再次访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 领取特别欢迎套装，其中包含 5 个免费旅行包和一瓶免费维生素 D3 K2。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Maui Nui Venison.
今天的节目也是由 Maui Nui Venison 为我们带来的。
Maui Nui Venison is the most nutrient-dense and delicious red meat available.
毛伊努伊鹿肉是营养最丰富、最美味的红肉。
It's also ethically sourced.
它也是有道德来源的。
Maui Nui hunts and harvests wild access deer on the island of Maui.
毛伊努伊 (Maui Nui) 在毛伊岛上狩猎和收获野生鹿。
This solves the problem of managing an invasive species while also creating an extraordinary source of protein.
这解决了管理入侵物种的问题，同时也创造了非凡的蛋白质来源。
As I've discussed on this podcast before, most people should aim for getting one gram of quality protein per pound of body weight each day.
正如我之前在此播客中讨论过的那样，大多数人的目标应该是每天每磅体重摄入一克优质蛋白质。
This allows for optimal muscle protein synthesis while also helping to reduce appetite and support proper metabolic health.
这可以实现最佳的肌肉蛋白质合成，同时还有助于降低食欲并支持适当的代谢健康。
Given Maui Nui's exceptional protein-to-calorie ratio, this protein target is achievable without having to eat too many calories.
鉴于毛伊努伊岛卓越的蛋白质与卡路里比率，无需摄入太多卡路里即可实现这一蛋白质目标。
Their venison delivers 21 grams of protein with only 107 grams per serving, which is an ideal ratio for those of us concerned with maintaining or increasing muscle mass while supporting metabolic health.
他们的鹿肉提供 21 克蛋白质，每份仅 107 克，对于我们这些关心维持或增加肌肉质量同时支持代谢健康的人来说，这是一个理想的比例。
They have venison steaks, ground venison, and venison bone broth.
他们有鹿肉排、鹿肉末和鹿骨汤。
I personally love all of them.
我个人很喜欢他们所有人。
In fact, I probably eat a Maui Nui venison burger pretty much every day, and if I don't do that, I eat one of their steaks.
事实上，我可能几乎每天都会吃毛伊努伊鹿肉汉堡，如果我不这样做，我就会吃他们的一份牛排。
And sometimes I also consume their bone broth.
有时我也喝他们的骨头汤。
And if you're on the go, they have Maui Nui venison sticks, which have 10 grams of protein per stick with just 55 calories.
如果您在旅途中，他们还提供毛伊努伊鹿肉棒，每棒含有 10 克蛋白质，仅含有 55 卡路里热量。
I eat at least one of those a day to meet my protein requirements.
我每天至少吃其中一种来满足我的蛋白质需求。
Right now, Maui Nui is offering Huberman Podcast listeners a limited collection of my favorite cuts and products.
现在，毛伊努伊岛正在为 Huberman 播客听众提供我最喜欢的剪辑和产品的限量收藏。
It's perfect for anyone looking to improve their diet with delicious, high-quality protein.
对于那些希望通过美味、优质蛋白质来改善饮食的人来说，它是完美的选择。
Supplies are limited, so go to mauinuivenison.com/huberman to get access to this high-quality meat today.
供应有限，因此请立即访问 mauinuivenison.com/huberman 获取这种高品质肉类。
Again, that's mauinuivenison.com/huberman.
同样，这是 mauinuivenison.com/huberman。
Does interacting with a robot change you?
与机器人互动会改变你吗？
In other words, do we develop relationships to robots?
换句话说，我们是否与机器人建立了关系？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I believe that most people have a notion of loneliness in them that we haven't discovered, that we haven't explored, I should say.
我相信大多数人心里都有一种我们还没有发现、没有探索过的孤独感，我应该说。
And I see AI systems as helping us explore that so that we can become better humans, better people towards each other.
我认为人工智能系统正在帮助我们探索这一点，以便我们能够成为更好的人，更好地对待彼此。
So I think that connection between human and AI, human and robot is not only possible, but will help us understand ourselves in ways that are several orders of magnitude deeper than we ever could have imagined.
因此，我认为人类与人工智能、人类与机器人之间的联系不仅是可能的，而且将帮助我们以比我们想象的更深几个数量级的方式了解自己。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
So when I think about human relationships, I don't always break them down into variables, but we could explore a few of those variables and see how they map to human-robot relationships.
因此，当我思考人际关系时，我并不总是将它们分解为变量，但我们可以探索其中一些变量，看看它们如何映射到人机关系。
One is just time, right?
一只是时间，对吗？
If you spend zero time with another person at all in cyberspace or on the phone or in person, you essentially have no relationship to them.
如果你在网络空间、电话或面对面中与另一个人相处的时间为零，那么你基本上与他们没有任何关系。
If you spend a lot of time, you have a relationship.
如果你花了很多时间，你就有了一段关系。
This is obvious, but I guess one variable would be time, how much time you spend with the other entity, robot or human.
这是显而易见的，但我想一个变量是时间，你花多少时间与另一个实体（机器人或人类）在一起。
The other would be wins and successes.
另一个是胜利和成功。
You enjoy successes together.
你们一起享受成功。
The other would be failures when you struggle with somebody.
另一种是当你与某人斗争时的失败。
When you struggle with somebody, you grow closer.
当你与某人斗争时，你们会变得更加亲密。
So I've never conceptualized robot-human interactions this way.
所以我从来没有以这种方式概念化机器人与人类的互动。
So tell me more about how this might look.
请告诉我更多关于这可能是什么样子的信息。
Are we thinking about a human-appearing robot?
我们是否正在考虑一个具有人类外观的机器人？
What is the ideal human-robot relationship?
理想的人机关系是怎样的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there's a lot to be said here, but you actually pinpointed one of the big first steps, which is this idea of time.
所以这里有很多话要说，但你实际上指出了最重要的第一步之一，那就是时间的概念。
But I think that time element, forget everything else, just sharing moments together, that changes everything.
但我认为时间因素，忘记其他一切，只是分享在一起的时刻，这会改变一切。
I believe that changes everything.
我相信这会改变一切。
Now there's specific things that are more in terms of systems that I can explain to you.
现在我可以向您解释更多系统方面的具体内容。
It's more technical and probably a little bit offline because I have kind of wild ideas how that can revolutionize social networks and operating systems.
它更具技术性，可能有点离线，因为我有一些疯狂的想法，可以如何彻底改变社交网络和操作系统。
But the point is that element alone, forget all the other things we're talking about like emotions, saying no, all that.
但重点是，仅此一点，忘记我们正在谈论的所有其他事情，例如情绪，说不，所有这些。
Just remember, sharing moments together would change everything.
请记住，共同分享时刻会改变一切。
We don't currently have systems that share moments together.
我们目前还没有可以一起分享时刻的系统。
Even just you and your fridge.
即使只有你和你的冰箱。
Just all those times you went late at night and ate the thing you shouldn't have eaten, that was a secret moment you had with your refrigerator.
每当你深夜去吃不该吃的东西时，那都是你与冰箱的秘密时刻。
You shared that moment, that darkness or that beautiful moment where you just like heartbroken for some reason, you're eating that ice cream or whatever.
你们分享了那个时刻，那个黑暗或那个美丽的时刻，你只是因为某种原因而心碎，你正在吃冰淇淋或其他什么。
That's a special moment, and that refrigerator was there for you, and the fact that it missed the opportunity to remember that is tragic.
那是一个特殊的时刻，那台冰箱就在你身边，但它错过了记住这一点的机会，这是一场悲剧。
And once it does remember that, I think you're going to be very attached to that refrigerator.
一旦它记住了这一点，我想你就会非常喜欢那台冰箱。
You're going to go through some hell with that refrigerator.
你会因为那台冰箱而经历一些地狱般的事情。
Most of us in the developed world have weird relationships with food, right?
我们大多数发达国家的人与食物都有着奇怪的关系，对吗？
So you can go through some deep moments of trauma and triumph with food, and at the core of that is the refrigerator.
因此，你可以通过食物来度过一些深刻的创伤和胜利的时刻，而其中的核心就是冰箱。
So a smart refrigerator, I believe, would change society.
因此，我相信智能冰箱将改变社会。
Not just the refrigerator, but these ideas in the systems all around us.
不仅仅是冰箱，还有我们周围系统中的这些想法。
I just want to comment on how powerful that idea of time is.
我只是想评论一下时间这个概念有多么强大。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then there's a bunch of elements of actual interaction of allowing you as a human to feel like you're being heard, truly heard, truly understood, and I think there's a lot of ideas of how to make AI systems to be able to ask the right questions and truly hear another human.
然后还有一系列实际交互的元素，让你作为一个人感觉自己被倾听、真正被倾听、被真正理解，我认为有很多想法可以让人工智能系统能够提出正确的问题并真正倾听另一个人的声音。
This is what we try to do with podcasting, right?
这就是我们尝试用播客做的事情，对吧？
I think there's ways to do that with AI.
我认为人工智能有办法做到这一点。
But above all else, just remembering the collection of moments that make up the day, the week, the months.
但最重要的是，记住构成一天、一周、几个月的时刻的集合。
I think you maybe have some of this as well.
我想你可能也有一些这样的情况。
Some of my closest friends still are the friends from high school.
我的一些最亲密的朋友仍然是高中时的朋友。
That's time.
是时候了。
We've been through a bunch of shit together, and we're very different people, but just the fact that we've been through that and we remember those moments, and those moments somehow create a depth of connection like nothing else, like you and your refrigerator.
我们一起经历了很多事情，我们是非常不同的人，但事实是我们都经历过这些，我们记得那些时刻，而这些时刻以某种方式创造了一种深度的联系，就像你和你的冰箱一样。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
There may be relationships that are far better than the sorts of relationships that we can conceive in our minds right now based on what these machine relationship interactions could teach us.
根据这些机器关系交互可以教给我们的知识，有些关系可能比我们现在在脑海中想象的关系要好得多。
Do I have that right?
我有这个权利吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I think so.
是的，我想是的。
I think there's no reason to see machines as somehow incapable of teaching us something that's deeply human.
我认为没有理由认为机器无法以某种方式教给我们一些深刻的人类知识。
I don't think humans have a monopoly on that.
我不认为人类对此有垄断权。
I think we understand ourselves very poorly, and we need to have the kind of prompting from a machine.
我认为我们对自己的了解非常少，我们需要机器的提示。
Maybe the thing we want to optimize for isn't necessarily like some sexy quick clips.
也许我们想要优化的东西不一定像一些性感的快速剪辑。
Maybe what we want is long-form authenticity.
也许我们想要的是长篇的真实性。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Depth.
深度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Depth.
深度。
From a very specific engineering perspective is, I think, a fascinating open problem that hasn't been really worked on very much.
我认为，从非常具体的工程角度来看，这是一个令人着迷的开放问题，但尚未得到真正的研究。
Early on in life, and also in the recent years, I've interacted with a few robots where I understood there's magic there, and that magic could be shared by millions if it's brought to light.
在生命的早期以及近年来，我与一些机器人进行了互动，我知道那里有魔力，如果它被曝光，这种魔力可能会被数百万人分享。
When I first met Spot from Boston Dynamics, I realized there's magic there that nobody else is seeing.
当我第一次见到波士顿动力公司的 Spot 时，我意识到那里有别人看不到的魔力。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Is the dog.
是狗。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The dog, sorry.
狗，对不起。
The Spot is the four-legged robot from Boston Dynamics.
Spot 是波士顿动力公司的四足机器人。
Some people might have seen it.
有些人可能已经看到了。
It's this yellow dog.
就是这只黄狗。
This magic is something that could be in every single device in the world.
这种魔力可能存在于世界上的每一个设备中。
The way that I think maybe Steve Jobs thought about the personal computer.
我认为史蒂夫·乔布斯对个人电脑的看法可能是这样的。
And so for me, I'd love to see a world where every home has a robot, and not a robot that washes the dishes, but more like a companion.
所以对我来说，我很想看到一个每个家庭都有机器人的世界，而且不是洗碗的机器人，而更像是一个伴侣。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
A family member.
一个家庭成员。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A family member.
一个家庭成员。
The way a dog is.
就像狗一样。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But a dog that's also able to speak your language too.
但狗也能说你的语言。
So not just connect the way a dog does by looking at you and looking away and almost smiling with its soul in that kind of way, but also to actually understand what the hell.
所以，不仅仅是像狗那样通过看着你然后移开视线，几乎用灵魂微笑来建立联系，而且还要真正理解到底是什么。
Like why are you so excited about the successes?
比如你为什么对成功如此兴奋？
Understand the details, understand the traumas.
了解细节，了解创伤。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
I love this desire to share the delight of an interaction-
我喜欢这种分享互动乐趣的愿望——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
...
...
with a robot.
与机器人。
And as you describe it, I find myself starting to crave that-
正如你所描述的，我发现自己开始渴望——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
...
...
because we all have those elements from childhood or from adulthood where we experience something we want other people-
因为我们都有童年或成年时期的那些元素，在这些元素中我们经历了我们想要别人做的事情——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
...
...
to feel that, and I think that you're right.
感觉到这一点，我认为你是对的。
I think a lot of people are scared of AI.
我认为很多人都害怕人工智能。
I think a lot of people are scared of robots.
我认为很多人都害怕机器人。
My only experience of a robotic-like thing is my Roomba vacuum where it goes about...
我对类似机器人的东西的唯一经历是我的 Roomba 真空吸尘器，它会移动......
It actually was pretty good at picking up Costello's hair when he would shed, and I was grateful for it.
事实上，当科斯特洛脱发时，它能很好地拾起他的头发，我对此很感激。
But then when I was on a call or something and it would get caught on a wire or something, I would find myself getting upset with the Roomba.
但当我打电话或做其他事情时，它会被电线或其他东西夹住，我会发现自己对 Roomba 感到不安。
In that moment, I'm like, "What are you doing?" You know?
在那一刻，我想，“你在做什么？”你知道？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
And obviously it's just doing what it does.
显然它只是做它该做的事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
But that's a kind of mostly positive but slightly negative interaction.
但这是一种主要是积极但略带消极的互动。
But what you're describing has so much more richness and layers of detail that I can only imagine what those relationships are like.
但你所描述的内容更加丰富和详细，我只能想象这些关系是什么样的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, there's a few, just a quick comment.
嗯，有一些，只是一个简短的评论。
So I've had, they're currently in Boston.
我知道，他们目前在波士顿。
I have a bunch of Roombas from iRobot, and I did this experiment.
我有一堆 iRobot 的 Roombas，我做了这个实验。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Wait, how many Roombas?
等等，有多少个 Roombas？
Sounds like a fleet of Roombas.
听起来像是一群 Roombas。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So probably seven or eight.
所以大概有七八个。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Wow.
哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
That's a lot of Roombas.
有很多 Roombas。
So you have these seven or so Roombas.
所以你有大约七个 Roombas。
You deploy all seven at once?
您一次部署全部七个吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, no. I do different experiments with them.
哦，不。我用他们做了不同的实验。
So one of the things I want to mention, I got them to scream in pain and moan in pain, whenever they were kicked or contacted.
所以我想提的一件事是，每当他们被踢或接触时，我都会让他们痛苦地尖叫和呻吟。
And I did that experiment to see how I would feel.
我做了这个实验来看看我会有什么感觉。
I meant to do like a YouTube video on it, but then it just seemed very cruel.
我本来想在 YouTube 上制作一个视频，但后来看起来很残酷。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Did any Roomba rights activists come after you?
有 Roomba 维权人士来追捕您吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I think if I release that video, I think it's going to make me look insane, which I know people know I'm already insane, but-
我想如果我发布那个视频，我想它会让我看起来很疯狂，我知道人们知道我已经疯了，但是-
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Now you have to release the video.
现在你必须发布视频。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Well, I think maybe if I contextualize it by showing other robots, to show why this is fascinating.
好吧，我想也许如果我通过展示其他机器人来将其置于情境中，以展示为什么这很有趣。
Because ultimately I felt like they were human almost immediately, and that display of pain was what did that.
因为最终我几乎立刻就觉得他们是人类，正是这种痛苦的表现才做到了这一点。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Giving them a voice.
给他们发声的机会。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Giving them a voice, especially a voice of dislike, of pain.
给他们一种声音，尤其是一种不喜欢、痛苦的声音。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
So is the video available online?
那么这个视频可以在网上找到吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, I haven't-
不，我没有-
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
No
否
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
recorded it.
记录下来了。
I just have a bunch of Roombas that are able to scream in pain in my Boston place.
我在波士顿的住处只有一堆可以痛苦尖叫的 Roomba。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
What about shouts of glee and delight?
欢乐和喜悦的喊声又如何呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I don't know.
嗯，我不知道。
To me, delight is quiet, right?
对我来说，快乐就是安静，对吧？
But there's a way to frame it being quite dumb as almost cute, you know?
但有一种方法可以让它变得既愚蠢又可爱，你知道吗？
You're almost connecting with it for its dumbness, and I think that's an artificial intelligence problem.
你几乎会因为它的愚蠢而与它联系起来，我认为这是一个人工智能问题。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Interesting.
有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think flaws should be a feature, not a bug.
我认为缺陷应该是一个功能，而不是一个错误。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
So along the lines of this, the different sorts of relationships that one could have with robots and the fear, but also some of the positive relationships that one could have.
因此，沿着这一思路，人们可以与机器人建立不同类型的关系和恐惧，但也可以建立一些积极的关系。
There's so much dimensionality there, so much to explore.
那里有如此多的维度，有如此多的东西值得探索。
But power dynamics in relationships are very interesting because the obvious ones that-- the unsophisticated view of this is, one, there's a master and a servant, right?
但关系中的权力动态非常有趣，因为显而易见的——简单的观点是，一，有一个主人和一个仆人，对吗？
But there's also manipulation.
但也有操纵。
There's benevolent manipulation.
有仁慈的操纵。
Children do this with parents.
孩子们和父母一起做这个。
Puppies do this.
小狗都会这样做。
Puppies turn their head and look cute and maybe give out a little noise.
小狗转过头，看起来很可爱，可能还会发出一点声音。
Kids coo, and parents always think that they're doing this because they love the parent.
孩子们咕咕叫，而父母总是认为他们这样做是因为他们爱父母。
But in many ways, studies show that those coos are ways to extract the sorts of behaviors and expressions from the parent that they want.
但研究表明，在很多方面，这些咕咕声是从父母那里提取他们想要的各种行为和表达的方式。
The child doesn't know it's doing this.
孩子并不知道自己在这样做。
It's completely subconscious.
这完全是潜意识的。
But it's benevolent manipulation.
但这是仁慈的操纵。
So there's one version of fear of robots that I hear a lot about that I think most people can relate to, where the robots take over and they become the masters and we become the servants.
因此，我经常听到一种对机器人的恐惧，我认为大多数人都能体会到这种恐惧，机器人接管了一切，它们成为主人，而我们成为仆人。
But there could be another version that in certain communities that I'm certainly not a part of, but they call topping from the bottom, where the robot is actually- ...
但在某些社区中可能还有另一个版本，我当然不是其中的一部分，但他们称之为从底部开始的顶部，机器人实际上是......
manipulating you into doing things, but you are under the belief that you are in charge, but actually they're in charge.
操纵你做事，但你相信你是负责人，但实际上是他们负责。
And so I think that's one that if we could explore that for a second, you could imagine it wouldn't necessarily be bad, although it could lead to bad things.
所以我认为，如果我们能探索一下这一点，你可以想象它不一定是坏事，尽管它可能会导致坏事。
The reason I want to explore this is I think people always default to the extreme, like the robots take over and we're in little jail cells and they're out having fun and ruling the universe.
我想探索这个问题的原因是我认为人们总是默认到极端，就像机器人接管，我们在小牢房里，他们出去玩并统治宇宙。
What sorts of manipulation can a robot potentially carry out, good or bad?
机器人可以执行什么样的操作，好的还是坏的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So there's a lot of good and bad manipulation between humans, right?
所以人类之间有很多好的和坏的操纵，对吧？
Just like you said.
就像你说的那样。
To me, especially like you said topping from the bottom.
对我来说，尤其是像你说的从底部开始。
Is that the term?
是这个词吗？
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
I think someone from MIT told me that term.
我想麻省理工学院的某个人告诉了我这个词。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
It wasn't Lex.
这不是莱克斯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So first of all, there's power dynamics in bed and power dynamics in relationships and power dynamics on the street and in the work environment.
首先，床上有权力动态，关系中有权力动态，街上和工作环境中有权力动态。
Those are all very different.
这些都是非常不同的。
I think- I think power dynamics can make human relationships, especially romantic relationships, fascinating and rich and fulfilling and exciting and all those kinds of things.
我认为——我认为权力动态可以使人际关系，尤其是浪漫关系，变得迷人、丰富、充实、令人兴奋等等。
So I don't think in themselves they're bad and the same goes with robots.
所以我认为它们本身并不坏，机器人也是如此。
I really love the idea that a robot would be a top or a bottom in terms of power dynamics.
我真的很喜欢机器人在动力动力学方面处于顶部或底部的想法。
And I think everybody should be aware of that.
我认为每个人都应该意识到这一点。
And the manipulation is not so much manipulation, but a dance of pulling away, a push and pull, and all those kinds of things.
这种操纵与其说是操纵，不如说是一种拉开、推拉以及诸如此类的舞蹈。
In terms of control, I think we're very far away from AI systems that are able to lock us up in a...
在控制方面，我认为我们距离能够将我们锁定在……的人工智能系统还很远。
Like to have so much control that we basically cannot live our lives in the way that we want.
喜欢拥有如此多的控制权，以至于我们基本上无法按照自己想要的方式生活。
I think in terms of dangers of AI systems, there's much more dangers that have to do with autonomous weapons systems and all those kinds of things.
我认为就人工智能系统的危险而言，与自主武器系统和所有此类事物有关的危险要多得多。
So the power dynamics as exercised in the struggle between nations and war and all those kinds of things.
因此，权力动态在国家之间的斗争、战争以及诸如此类的事情中发挥作用。
But in terms of personal relationships, I think power dynamics are a beautiful thing.
但就人际关系而言，我认为权力动态是一件美好的事情。
I do believe that robots will have rights down the line, and I think in order for us to have deep, meaningful relationships with robots, we would have to consider them as entities in themselves that deserve respect.
我确实相信机器人将拥有权利，而且我认为为了让我们与机器人建立深厚、有意义的关系，我们必须将它们视为值得尊重的实体。
And that's a really interesting concept that I think people are starting to talk about a little bit more, but it's very difficult for us to understand how entities that are other than human, I mean the same as with dogs and other animals can have rights on a level as humans.
这是一个非常有趣的概念，我认为人们开始更多地谈论它，但我们很难理解人类以外的实体，我的意思是与狗和其他动物一样，可以拥有与人类同等的权利。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
Last year, I became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
去年，在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我成为了 Function 成员。
Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health.
Function 提供 100 多项高级实验室测试，为您提供整个身体健康状况的关键快照。
This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more.
此快照为您提供有关心脏健康、激素健康、免疫功能、营养水平等方面的见解。
They've also recently added tests for toxins such as BPA exposure from harmful plastics, and tests for PFAS or forever chemicals.
他们最近还增加了毒素测试，例如有害塑料中的 BPA 暴露，以及 PFAS 或永久化学物质的测试。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas.
Function 不仅提供对您的身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标记物的测试，而且还分析这些结果并提供相关领域专家的顶级医生的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量升高。
Function not only helped me detect that, but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, I'd been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification.
功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，还为我提供了如何最好地降低汞含量的见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼摄入量，我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力多吃绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒。
And I should say, by taking a second Function test, that approach worked.
我应该说，通过进行第二次功能测试，这种方法奏效了。
Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important.
全面的血液检测至关重要。
There's so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test.
有很多与您的心理和身体健康相关的事情只能通过血液检查来检测。
The problem is blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated.
问题是血液检测一直非常昂贵且复杂。
In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost.
相比之下，Function 的简单性和成本水平给我留下了深刻的印象。
It is very affordable.
这是非常实惠的。
As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
因此，我决定加入他们的科学顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Function，可以访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman Podcast listeners.
Function 目前有超过 250,000 人的等候名单，但他们正在为 Huberman 播客听众提供早期访问服务。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
Today's episode is also brought to us by David.
今天的节目也是大卫给我们带来的。
David makes a protein bar unlike any other.
大卫制作的蛋白质棒与众不同。
It has 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar.
它含有 28 克蛋白质，仅 150 卡路里，零克糖。
That's right, 28 grams of protein and 75% of its calories come from protein.
没错，28克蛋白质，其75%的热量都来自于蛋白质。
This is 50% higher than the next closest protein bar.
这比第二接近的蛋白质棒高出 50%。
David Protein bars also taste amazing.
大卫蛋白质棒的味道也很棒。
Even the texture is amazing.
就连质感也令人惊叹。
My favorite bar is the chocolate chip cookie dough, but then again, I also like the new chocolate peanut butter flavor and the chocolate brownie flavor.
我最喜欢的巧克力棒是巧克力饼干面团，但话又说回来，我也喜欢新的巧克力花生酱口味和巧克力布朗尼口味。
Basically, I like all the flavors a lot.
基本上，所有的口味我都很喜欢。
They're all incredibly delicious.
它们都非常美味。
In fact, the toughest challenge is knowing which ones to eat on which days and how many times per day.
事实上，最艰巨的挑战是知道哪一天吃哪些食物以及每天吃多少次。
I limit myself to two per day, but I absolutely love them.
我限制自己每天只能吃两个，但我绝对喜欢它们。
With David, I'm able to get 28 grams of protein in the calories of a snack, which makes it easy to hit my protein goals of one gram of protein per pound of body weight per day, and it allows me to do so without ingesting too many calories.
有了 David，我就能在一份零食的卡路里中获得 28 克蛋白质，这让我很容易达到每天每磅体重 1 克蛋白质的蛋白质目标，而且我可以在不摄入太多卡路里的情况下实现这一目标。
I'll eat a David protein bar most afternoons as a snack, and I always keep one with me when I'm out of the house or traveling.
大多数下午我都会吃大卫蛋白棒作为零食，当我出门或旅行时，我总是随身携带一根。
They're incredibly delicious, and given that they have 28 grams of protein, they're really satisfying for having just 150 calories.
它们非常美味，而且含有 28 克蛋白质，仅含 150 卡路里热量就已经很令人满意了。
If you'd like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 David，可以访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
Again, that's davidprotein.com/huberman.
同样，这是 david Protein.com/huberman。
We can't and nor should we do whatever we want with animals.
我们不能也不应该对动物为所欲为。
We have a USDA.
我们有美国农业部。
We have departments of agriculture that deal with animal care and use committees for research, for farming and ranching and all that.
我们有农业部门负责动物护理，并利用委员会进行研究、农业和牧场等。
So when you first said it, I thought, "Wait, why would there be a bill of robotic rights?" But it absolutely makes sense in the context of everything we've been talking about up until now.
所以当你第一次这么说时，我想，“等等，为什么会有机器人权利法案？”但就我们到目前为止所讨论的一切而言，它绝对是有意义的。
If you're willing, I'd love to talk about dogs, because you've mentioned dogs a couple of times, a robot dog.
如果你愿意的话，我很想谈谈狗，因为你已经多次提到狗，机器狗。
You had a biological dog.
你有一只亲生狗。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I had a Newfoundland named Homer for many years growing up.
在我的成长过程中，有一只名叫荷马的纽芬兰犬长大了很多年。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
In Russia or in the US?
在俄罗斯还是在美国？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In the United States.
在美国。
And he was over 200 pounds.
他的体重超过200磅。
That's a big dog.
那是一只大狗。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
That's a big dog.
那是一只大狗。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If people know Newfoundlands, he's this black dog that's really long hair and just a kind soul.
如果人们了解纽芬兰，他就是这只黑狗，头发很长，灵魂善良。
I think perhaps that's true for a lot of large dogs, but he thought he was a small dog, so he moved like that and-
我想也许对于很多大型狗来说都是如此，但他认为自己是一只小狗，所以他像那样移动并且-
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Was he your dog?
他是你的狗吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
So you had him since he was fairly young.
所以你从他还很小的时候就拥有了他。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, since the very beginning till the very end.
是的，从一开始到最后。
And one of the things He had this, we mentioned like the roombas, he had a kind-hearted dumbness about him that was just overwhelming.
他所拥有的其中一件事，我们提到过，比如 Roomba，他有一种善良的愚蠢，这是压倒性的。
It's part of the reason I named him Homer because it's after Homer Simpson, in case people are wondering which Homer I'm referring to.
这是我给他命名为荷马的部分原因，因为它是以荷马·辛普森的名字命名的，以防人们想知道我指的是哪位荷马。
So there's the-
所以就有了——
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Not "The Odyssey."
不是《奥德赛》。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
There's a clumsiness that was just something that immediately led to a deep love for each other.
有一种笨拙的感觉，却立刻让彼此产生了深深的爱。
It's the shared moments.
这是共同的时刻。
He was always there for so many nights together.
这么多个夜晚他总是在一起。
That's a powerful thing about a dog, that he was there through all the loneliness, through all the tough times, through the successes, and all those kinds of things.
对于一只狗来说，这是一种强大的力量，它经历了所有的孤独，经历了所有的艰难时刻，经历了成功，以及所有这些事情。
And I remember, that was a really moving moment for me.
我记得，那对我来说是一个非常感人的时刻。
I still miss him to this day.
直到今天我仍然想念他。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
How long ago did he die?
他死了多久了？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe 15 years ago, so it's been a while.
也许是15年前的事了，已经有一段时间了。
But it was the first time I've really experienced the feeling of death.
但这是我第一次真正体会到死亡的感觉。
So what happened is he got cancer, and so he was dying slowly, and then at a certain point, he couldn't get up anymore.
发生的事情是他得了癌症，所以他正在慢慢死去，然后在某个时刻，他再也站不起来了。
There's a lot of things I could say here that I struggle with.
我可以在这里说很多我在挣扎的事情。
Maybe he suffered much longer than he needed to.
也许他承受的痛苦比他需要承受的时间要长得多。
That's something I really think about a lot.
这是我经常思考的事情。
But I remember I had to take him to the hospital, and the nurses couldn't carry him.
但我记得我必须带他去医院，护士无法抱他。
So you're talking about a 200-pound dog, and I was really into powerlifting at the time.
所以你说的是一只 200 磅重的狗，而我当时非常喜欢举重。
I remember they tried to figure out all these kinds of ways to-- So in order to put him to sleep, they had to take him into a room.
我记得他们试图找出所有这些方法来——所以为了让他入睡，他们不得不把他带进一个房间。
And so I had to carry him everywhere.
所以我必须带着他去任何地方。
And here's this dying friend of mine that I just had to-- First of all, it's really difficult to carry somebody that heavy when they're not helping you out.
这是我的一位垂死的朋友，我不得不这样做——首先，当他们不帮助你时，携带那么重的人真的很困难。
And, yeah, so I remember it was the first time seeing a friend laying there and seeing life drain from his body.
是的，所以我记得这是第一次看到一个朋友躺在那里，看到生命从他的身体中流失。
And that realization that we're here for a short time was made so real.
我们意识到我们在这里待的时间很短，这一点变得如此真实。
That here's a friend that was there for me the week before, the day before, and now he's gone.
这是一个朋友，前一周、前一天还在我身边，但现在他走了。
I don't know, that spoke to the fact that you could be deeply connected with a dog.
我不知道，这说明你可能与狗有很深的联系。
Also spoke to the fact that the shared moments together that led to that deep friendship will make life so amazing.
还谈到了这样一个事实：共同度过的时刻带来了深厚的友谊，将使生活变得如此美妙。
But it also spoke to the fact that death is a motherfucker.
但这也说明了一个事实：死亡是个混蛋。
So I know you've lost Costello recently.
所以我知道你最近失去了科斯特洛。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you've been going-
而你一直在——
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
And as you're saying this, I'm definitely fighting back the tears.
当你这么说的时候，我肯定强忍着泪水。
Thank you for sharing that.
感谢您分享这一点。
I guess we're about to both cry over our dead dogs.
我想我们都会为死去的狗哭泣。
It was bound to happen, just given when this is happening.
它必然会发生，只是在发生时给出。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How long did you know that Costello was not doing well?
你知道科斯特洛表现不佳多久了？
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Well, let's see.
好吧，让我们看看。
A year ago, about six months into the pandemic, he started getting abscesses, and his behavior changed and something really changed.
一年前，大约在流感大流行六个月后，他开始出现脓肿，他的行为发生了变化，事情确实发生了变化。
And then I put him on testosterone, which helped a lot of things.
然后我让他服用睾丸激素，这有很多帮助。
It certainly didn't cure everything, but it helped a lot of things.
它当然不能解决所有问题，但它对很多事情都有帮助。
He was dealing with joint pain, sleep issues.
他正在处理关节疼痛和睡眠问题。
And then it just became a very slow decline to the point where two, three weeks ago, he had a closet full of medication.
然后它就变得非常缓慢地下降到两三周前，他的衣柜里装满了药物。
This dog was like a pharmacy.
这只狗就像一家药房。
It's amazing to me when I looked at it the other day, I still haven't cleaned up and removed all his things because I can't quite bring myself to do it.
那天我看到它时，我感到很惊讶，我仍然没有清理并移走他所有的东西，因为我不太愿意这样做。
But-
但是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you think he was suffering?
你觉得他痛苦吗？
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Well, so what happened was about a week ago, it was really just about a week ago, it's amazing, he was going up the stairs, and I saw him slip.
嗯，发生的事情是大约一周前，真的就大约一周前，太神奇了，他正在上楼梯，我看到他滑倒了。
And he was a big dog.
他是一只大狗。
He wasn't 200 pounds, but he was about 90 pounds, but he's a bulldog.
他的体重不是 200 磅，而是大约 90 磅，但他是一只斗牛犬。
That's pretty big.
那是相当大的。
And he was fit.
而且他很健康。
And then I noticed that he wasn't carrying a foot in the back like it was injured.
然后我注意到他并没有像受伤那样把一只脚放在后面。
It had no feeling at all.
一点感觉都没有。
He never liked me to touch his hind paws.
他从来不喜欢我碰他的后爪。
And that thing was just flopping there.
那东西就在那里扑通扑通。
And then, the vet found some spinal degeneration, and I was told that the next one would go.
然后，兽医发现了一些脊柱退化，我被告知下一个会消失。
Did he suffer?
他受苦了吗？
Sure hope not.
当然希望不会。
But something changed in his eyes.
但他的眼中有些东西发生了变化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It's the eyes again.
又是眼睛了。
I know you and I spend long hours on the phone and talking about the eyes and what they convey and what they mean about internal states and for sake of robots and biology of other kinds.
我知道你和我花了很长时间在电话上谈论眼睛以及它们所传达的内容以及它们对内部状态的含义以及机器人和其他类型的生物学的意义。
But-
但是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you think something about him was gone in his eyes?
你觉得他的眼睛里有什么东西消失了吗？
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Here I am anthropomorphizing.
这里我拟人化了。
I think he was realizing that one of his great joys in life, which was to walk and sniff and pee on things.
我认为他意识到他生命中最大的乐趣之一就是走路、嗅东西、在东西上撒尿。
This dog-
这只狗——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The fundamentals
基本原理
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
...
...
loved to pee on things.
喜欢在东西上撒尿。
It was amazing.
太棒了。
I wondered where he put it.
我想知道他把它放在哪里。
He was like a reservoir of urine.
他就像一个蓄尿池。
It was incredible.
这太不可思议了。
I'd think, oh, that's it, he'd put like one drop on the 50 millionth plant, and then we get to the 50 millionth and one plant-
我想，哦，就是这样，他会在第 5000 万株植物上滴一滴，然后我们就到了第 5000 万株植物 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So much more
还有更多
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
...
...
and he'd just leave a puddle.
他只会留下一个水坑。
And here I am talking about Costello peeing.
我在这里谈论的是科斯特洛撒尿。
He was losing that ability to stand up and do that.
他正在失去站起来做这件事的能力。
He was falling down while he was doing that.
当他这样做的时候，他摔倒了。
And I do think he started to realize, and the passage was easy and peaceful.
我确实认为他开始意识到，整个过程是轻松而平静的。
But I'll say this, I'm not ashamed to say it.
但我要说的是，我并不羞于这么说。
I wake up every morning since then just- I don't even make the conscious decision to allow myself to cry.
从那以后我每天早上醒来只是——我什至没有做出有意识的决定让自己哭泣。
I wake up crying.
我哭着醒来。
And I'm fortunately able to make it through the day, thanks to the great support of my friends and you and my family.
幸运的是，感谢我的朋友以及您和我的家人的大力支持，我能够度过这一天。
But I miss him, man.
但我想念他，伙计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You miss him?
你想念他吗？
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Yeah, I miss him.
是的，我想念他。
And I feel like Homer, Costello, the relationship to one's dog is so specific, but-
我觉得荷马，科斯特洛，与狗的关系是如此具体，但是-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So that part of you is gone.
所以你的那部分已经消失了。
That's the hard thing.
这才是最困难的事情。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
What I think is different is that I made the mistake, I think-- Well, I hope it was a good decision, but sometimes I think I made the mistake of I brought Costello a little bit to the world through the podcast, through posting about him.
我认为不同的是我犯了一个错误，我想——好吧，我希望这是一个好的决定，但有时我想我犯了一个错误，我通过播客，通过发布有关他的帖子，让科斯特洛稍微了解了世界。
I answered for more advised about him in public.
我在公开场合回答了有关他的更多建议。
Let's be honest, I have no idea what his mental life was or his relationship to me.
说实话，我不知道他的精神生活是什么，也不知道他和我的关系。
And I'm just exploring all this for the first time because he was my first dog, but I raised him since he was seven weeks.
我只是第一次探索这一切，因为他是我的第一只狗，但我从他七周大的时候就养大了他。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, you got to hold it together.
是的，你必须把它放在一起。
I noticed the episode you released on Monday, you mentioned Costello.
我注意到你周一发布的那一集，你提到了科斯特洛。
You brought him back to life for me for that brief moment.
在那短暂的时刻，你让他复活了。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Yeah, but he's gone.
是的，但他已经走了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, he's going to be gone for a lot of people, too.
好吧，对于很多人来说，他也会消失。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Well, this is what I'm struggling with.
嗯，这就是我正在努力解决的问题。
I know how to take care of myself pretty well.
我非常知道如何照顾自己。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Not perfectly, but pretty well.
不完美，但相当不错。
And I have good support.
我有很好的支持。
I do worry a little bit about how it's going to land and how people will feel.
我确实有点担心它会如何落地以及人们会有什么感受。
I'm concerned about their internalization.
我担心他们的内化。
So that's something I'm still iterating on.
所以这是我仍在反复讨论的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they have to watch you struggle, which is fascinating.
他们必须看着你挣扎，这很有趣。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Right.
对。
And I've mostly been shielding them from this.
我基本上一直在保护他们免受这种影响。
But what would make me happiest is if people would internalize some of Costello's best traits.
但最让我高兴的是，如果人们能够内化科斯特洛的一些最佳品质。
And his best traits were that he was incredibly tough.
他最大的特点是他非常坚强。
He was a 22-inch neck bulldog, the whole thing.
总的来说，他是一只22英寸脖子的斗牛犬。
He was just born that way.
他生来就是这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
But what was so beautiful is that his toughness is never what he rolled forward.
但美妙之处在于，他的坚韧从来都不是他前进的动力。
It was just how sweet and kind he was.
他是多么的可爱和善良。
And so if people can take that, then there's a win in there someplace.
因此，如果人们能够接受这一点，那么就在某个地方取得了胜利。
So.
所以。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think there's some ways in which he should probably live on in your podcast, too.
我认为他也应该在某些方面继续留在你的播客中。
One of the things I loved about his role in your podcast is that he brought so much joy to you.
我喜欢他在你的播客中扮演的角色的原因之一是他给你带来了很多快乐。
We mentioned the robots.
我们提到了机器人。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
I think that's such a powerful thing to bring that joy into-- allowing yourself to experience that joy, to bring that joy to others, to share it with others.
我认为将这种快乐带入是一件非常强大的事情——让自己体验这种快乐，将这种快乐带给他人，与他人分享。
That's really powerful.
那真是太强大了。
And this is the Russian thing is it touched me when Louis C.K.
这就是俄罗斯的事情，当 Louis C.K.
had that moment that I keep thinking about in his show, "Louis," where an old man was criticizing Louis for whining about breaking up with his girlfriend.
我一直在回忆他的节目《路易斯》中的那一刻，一位老人批评路易斯抱怨与女友分手。
And he was saying the most beautiful thing about love.
他说出了关于爱情最美丽的事情。
They made a song that's catchy now, that's now making me feel horrible saying it, but is the loss.
他们创作了一首现在朗朗上口的歌曲，现在让我觉得说起来很糟糕，但这就是损失。
The loss really also is making you realize how much that person, that dog meant to you.
这种损失也让你意识到那个人、那只狗对你来说有多重要。
And allowing yourself to feel that loss and not run away from that loss is really powerful.
让自己感受到这种损失而不是逃避这种损失是非常强大的。
And in some ways, that's also sweet.
从某些方面来说，这也很甜蜜。
Just like the love was, the loss is also sweet.
就像爱情一样，失去也是甜蜜的。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because you know that you felt a lot for your friend.
因为你知道你对你的朋友有很多感情。
And continue bringing that joy, I think it would be amazing to the podcast.
继续带来这种快乐，我认为这对播客来说会很棒。
I hope to do the same with robots or-
我希望对机器人也能做同样的事情，或者-
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
whatever else is the source of joy, right?
其他任何事情都是快乐的源泉，对吗？
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And maybe do you think about one day getting another dog?
也许你会考虑有一天再养一只狗吗？
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Yeah, in time.
是啊，及时。
You're hitting on all the key buttons here.
您正在点击这里的所有关键按钮。
We're thinking about ways to kind of immortalize Costello in a way that's real.
我们正在考虑如何以真实的方式让科斯特洛永垂不朽。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nice.
不错。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Not just creating some little logo or something silly.
不仅仅是创建一些小标志或一些愚蠢的东西。
Costello, much like David Goggins, is a person, but Goggins also has grown into kind of a verb.
科斯特洛就像大卫·戈金斯一样，是一个人，但戈金斯也已经成长为一种动词。
You're going to Goggins this, or you're going to-- And there's an adjective.
你要去戈金斯这个，或者你要去——还有一个形容词。
That's extreme.
那太极端了。
I think that for me, Costello was all those things.
我认为对我来说，科斯特洛就是这些东西。
He was a being.
他是一个存在。
He was his own being.
他是他自己的存在。
He was a noun, a verb, and an adjective.
他是一个名词、一个动词和一个形容词。
And he had this amazing superpower that I wish I could get, which was this ability to get everyone else to do things for you without doing a damn thing.
他拥有我希望我能拥有的惊人的超能力，那就是让其他人为你做事而不做任何该死的事情的能力。
The Costello effect, as I call it.
我称之为科斯特洛效应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So as an idea, I hope he lives on.
所以作为一个想法，我希望他能活下去。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
There's a saying that I heard when I was a graduate student that's just been ringing in my mind throughout this conversation in such a, I think, appropriate way, which is that, Lex, you are in a minority of one.
当我还是一名研究生时，有一句话在我的谈话中一直在我的脑海中萦绕，我认为这是一种恰当的方式，那就是，莱克斯，你属于少数派。
You are truly extraordinary in your ability to encapsulate so many aspects of science, engineering, public communication about so many topics, martial arts, and the emotional depth that you bring to it, and just the purposefulness.
你确实具有非凡的能力，能够概括科学、工程、关于许多主题的公共交流、武术以及你所带来的情感深度和目的性的许多方面。
And I think if it's not clear to people, it absolutely should be stated, but I think it's abundantly clear that just the amount of time and thinking that you put into things, it is the ultimate mark of respect.
我认为如果人们不清楚的话，绝对应该说明这一点，但我认为非常清楚的是，只要你在事情上投入的时间和思考，这就是尊重的最终标志。
So I'm just extraordinarily grateful for your friendship and for this conversation.
所以我非常感谢你们的友谊和这次谈话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm proud to be your friend, and I just wish you showed me the same kind of respect by wearing a suit and make your father proud.
我很自豪能成为你的朋友，我只希望你能穿着西装向我表达同样的尊重，让你的父亲感到自豪。
Maybe next time.
下一次吧。
Dr. Lex Fridman:
莱克斯·弗里德曼博士：
Next time, indeed.
下次，确实如此。
Thanks so much, my friend.
非常感谢，我的朋友。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you, Andrew.
谢谢你，安德鲁。
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
"I want to date with rules," Carty says.
“我想按规则约会，”卡蒂说。
"Rules?" Rocca asks.
“规则？”罗卡问道。
This is the love story of real Hinge couple, Carty and Rocca.
这是真实的铰链夫妇卡蒂和罗卡的爱情故事。
Written and read by me, Nicola Dinan.
由我 Nicola Dinan 撰写和阅读。
Listen to the free audiobook now.
立即收听免费有声读物。