Essentials: How to Become Resilient, Forge Your Identity & Lead Others | Jocko Willink

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Welcome to Huberman Lab Essentials, where we revisit past episodes for the most potent and actionable science-based tools for mental health, physical health, and performance.

欢迎来到 Huberman Lab Essentials，在这里我们回顾过去的剧集，寻找针对心理健康、身体健康和表现的最有效、最可操作的基于科学的工具。

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

And now for my discussion with Jocko Willink.

现在我与乔科·威林克进行讨论。

Jocko Willink, welcome.

乔科·威林克，欢迎。

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

Thanks for having me, man.

谢谢你有我，伙计。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In my view, and I think in the view of a lot of people, you embody discipline.

在我看来，而且在很多人看来，你体现了纪律。

So today, I definitely want to talk about routines, but also mindsets, but also things that you do and ways that you approach things that might not contradict but not be so obvious to people, might be a little bit counterintuitive.

所以今天，我肯定想谈谈惯例，还有心态，还有你所做的事情以及你处理事情的方式，这些事情可能并不矛盾，但对人们来说并不那么明显，可能有点违反直觉。

There are generators and projectors.

有发电机和投影仪。

And generators are people that are just from a very young age, they realize they can impact other people.

生成者是从很小的时候起就意识到自己可以影响其他人的人。

They want to create things in the world.

他们想在世界上创造事物。

And then there are these projectors that like to just kind of reflect on what they see.

还有一些投影仪喜欢反映他们所看到的内容。

And it's not that generators are good and projectors are bad.

并不是说发电机好，投影仪就不好。

The world needs both, that they really work in a kind of symbiotic way.

世界需要两者，它们确实以一种共生的方式发挥作用。

But your story captures the essence of what it is to be a generator, which is that by doing certain things, you can have an impact, and it feeds back to you, and it's likely that they receive something from it as well.

但你的故事抓住了成为发电机的本质，那就是通过做某些事情，你可以产生影响，它会反馈给你，他们很可能也从中得到一些东西。

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

Yeah.

是的。

And where this all came to fruition, as I now piece together as you're talking through this stuff...

这一切都实现了，正如我现在在你谈论这些东西时拼凑起来的那样……

Look, when I joined the military, you join the military and you get a blank slate.

听着，当我参军时，你参军了，你就得到了一张白纸。

No one cares what you got on the SATs, and no one cares about anything.

没有人关心你在 SAT 考试中取得了什么成绩，也没有人关心任何事情。

You're a blank slate.

你是一张白纸。

And then with that blank slate, it is, hey, if you do this thing, if you perform this task and you perform it well, you will get recognition.

然后，有了这张白纸，嘿，如果你做了这件事，如果你执行了这项任务并且做得很好，你就会得到认可。

You will hopefully get more control over your own destiny, which is the ultimate in compensation for human beings, to have more control over your own destiny.

你将有望更多地掌控自己的命运，这就是对人类的最终补偿，更多地掌控自己的命运。

You can have all the money in the world, but if you don't control what you're doing every day, or at least you don't control most of what you're doing, then it's not worth it.

你可以拥有世界上所有的钱，但如果你不能控制你每天所做的事情，或者至少你不能控制你所做的大部分事情，那么这是不值得的。

The reason people try and make money is so they can have more autonomy in their life.

人们尝试赚钱的原因是为了在生活中拥有更多的自主权。

And so in the military, it became very clear to me very quickly that if I performed well, I actually got a lot more freedom with what I did.

因此，在军队中，我很快就清楚地意识到，如果我表现出色，我实际上可以在做事时获得更多自由。

That's when I started to realize, oh, what I'm doing right now is going to impact not only what's going to happen to me in the next hour, but in the next two years, three years, five years.

就在那时我开始意识到，哦，我现在所做的事情不仅会影响我在接下来的一个小时内会发生的事情，还会影响接下来的两年、三年、五年。

The more I focused on doing things that are going to positively impact my future, the better my life became, and I think that's a very huge lesson to learn that I know I didn't figure out for quite some time.

我越专注于做那些对我的未来产生积极影响的事情，我的生活就会变得越好，我认为这是一个非常值得学习的教训，我知道我已经很长一段时间没有弄清楚了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I get the impression, and I think everyone gets the impression, that you're somebody with a lot of energy, and I wonder whether or not you wake up with a lot of energy, and you feel like you have to burn it off with this physical activity and work and other demands in your life.

我的印象是，我想每个人都会有这样的印象：你是一个精力充沛的人，我想知道你醒来时是否精力充沛，你觉得你必须通过这种体力活动、工作和生活中的其他需求来消耗它。

Or do you find that you wake up and your energy is kind of neutral, and exercise and physical activity gives you energy?

或者你是否发现你醒来后，你的能量是中性的，运动和体力活动给你能量？

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

I would say it's both, right?

我想说两者兼而有之，对吗？

There's no way I could sit here and say, "Oh, yeah, every day that alarm clock goes off, and I'm like, 'Oh, yeah, let's rock and roll.'" Certainly, that's not the case.

我不可能坐在这里说：“哦，是的，每天闹钟一响，我就会说，‘哦，是的，我们来摇滚吧。’”当然，事实并非如此。

It's also certainly not the case that every day I'm like, "Oh, God, not again." No. I'd say most of the time, the alarm clock goes off, and I don't think a bunch.

当然，我也不会每天都说：“哦，上帝，不要再这样了。”不，我想说的是，大多数时候，闹钟都会响，而且我不认为有很多。

Like, when my alarm clock goes off, I don't debate with myself.

就像，当我的闹钟响起时，我不会与自己争论。

I'm not negotiating.

我不是在谈判。

The thing goes off, and I'm doing what I'm supposed to do.

事情发生了，我正在做我应该做的事情。

Sort of robotic.

有点像机器人。

Now, this much I can say.

现在，我能说的就这么多了。

When you go and work out, you're going to feel better.

当你出去锻炼时，你会感觉更好。

You will get energy from working out.

您将从锻炼中获得能量。

You go break a sweat, you're going to feel better.

你去出汗吧，你会感觉好多了。

You're going to get more energy from it.

你将从中获得更多的能量。

And look, you got to go really, really hard to where now you feel more tired when you're done.

听着，你必须非常非常努力地完成任务，直到完成后你会感到更累。

And even that, I mean, you got to go psycho.

即便如此，我的意思是，你也得发疯。

I'll do that occasionally, but I don't do that on a daily basis.

我偶尔会这样做，但我不会每天都这样做。

At the end of a day, if I wake up, lift, run, surf, and then I do jujitsu in the afternoon, at the end of that day, I'm tired, and I feel tired.

一天结束的时候，如果我起床，举重，跑步，冲浪，然后下午做柔术，那一天结束的时候，我很累，我感觉很累。

But normal day, working out just makes you feel better.

但平常的一天，锻炼只会让你感觉更好。

Definitely gives me energy.

绝对给我能量。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The idea that movement and exercise gives us energy, I think is an important idea, and it's something that frankly I was hoping your answer would be that, as opposed to that you wake up every day and you just want to just attack the world because you have so much energy getting out of bed, because frankly, I never feel that way.

我认为运动和锻炼给我们能量的想法是一个重要的想法，坦率地说，我希望你的答案是这样的，而不是你每天醒来，你只想攻击世界，因为你起床有这么多的能量，因为坦率地说，我从来没有那样的感觉。

But I always feel better after I train.

但训练后我总是感觉好多了。

Do you nourish after you train, or do you find that eating slows you down?

训练后你会补充营养吗？或者你是否发现饮食会减慢你的速度？

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

I find that eating slows me down.

我发现吃东西会让我放慢速度。

So no, I don't eat a big meal until I'm kind of done with the physical stuff for the day, which is usually at night, 6:00, 7:00 at night.

所以不，我不会吃大餐，直到我完成一天的体力活动，通常是在晚上，晚上 6:00、7:00。

Which I guess there's some bad things about that.

我想这有一些不好的事情。

I eat too late.

我吃得太晚了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Well, the data say, if you're having a regular meal schedule that allows you to sleep well at night, whatever that means for you, and that allows you to be active and focused when you need to be active and focused, that's the ideal schedule.

嗯，数据表明，如果您有规律的膳食安排，可以让您在晚上睡个好觉，无论这对您意味着什么，并且可以让您在需要活跃和专注时保持活跃和专注，那么这就是理想的时间表。

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

When I'm working with clients, so I have a leadership consulting company, Echelon Front.

当我与客户合作时，我有一家领导力咨询公司，Echelon Front。

When I'm going to work with a client, I'm not eating.

当我要和客户一起工作时，我不会吃饭。

Because they're going to be asking me questions.

因为他们会问我问题。

We're going to be diving into what's happening inside their business.

我们将深入了解他们的业务内部正在发生的事情。

There's a lot of stuff going on.

有很多事情正在发生。

It's a lot of cognitive work.

这是大量的认知工作。

Podcast?

播客？

I'm not eating before a podcast.

我不会在播客之前吃东西。

Before I'm recording a podcast, I'm not eating because I don't want to have a bunch of food in my stomach.

在录制播客之前，我不吃东西，因为我不想胃里有一堆食物。

You get a certain level of mental clarity when you haven't eaten a bunch of food.

当你没有吃很多食物时，你的头脑会得到一定程度的清醒。

So going out on missions, I never would eat before I go out on a mission.

所以出去传教，我出去传教之前从来不吃东西。

I would eat when I come home.

当我回家时我会吃饭。

You get home 4:00 in the morning, 3:00 in the morning from doing an operation, cool, then I'll eat.

你早上4:00回家，凌晨3:00做完手术，凉了，然后我就吃饭了。

Because then I'm going to do a debrief for 15 minutes, clean weapons, and then eat a big meal, go to sleep.

因为接下来我要做 15 分钟的汇报，清理武器，然后吃一顿大餐，睡觉。

Cool.

凉爽的。

Yeah, I don't want to have food in my stomach when I've got to perform or execute anything.

是的，当我必须执行或执行任何事情时，我不想胃里有食物。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So much of what you embody and what you do, I think, centers around this idea of discipline, of course, but also energy.

我认为，你所体现的和所做的很多事情都围绕着纪律的理念，当然，还有能量。

It's the intuitive sense I get about why people are so drawn to your messaging and what you do and how you do it.

这是我的直觉，让我明白为什么人们如此被你的信息、你所做的事情以及你的做事方式所吸引。

Are there certain forms of exercise, like weightlifting versus cardio, that you find give you an especially big boost in what we're calling energy.

您是否发现某些形式的运动（例如举重与有氧运动）可以给您带来特别大的能量提升？

And here, this could be cognitive energy, it could be physical energy, but a readiness for the next thing.

在这里，这可能是认知能量，也可能是身体能量，而是为下一件事做好准备。

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

I would have to say the high intensity sort of anaerobic blast, whether it's on the bike or on the rower or swinging a kettlebell hard, something like that, that last 10, 15 minutes, that's a really good way to peak my mentality for the day.

我不得不说高强度的无氧爆发，无论是骑自行车、划船还是用力挥动壶铃，诸如此类，持续 10、15 分钟，这是让我当天的心态达到顶峰的好方法。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

When you were in the teams, what was your observation about how winning and losing would impact people in the short and long term?

当您在团队中时，您对胜利和失败将如何影响人们的短期和长期观察有何看法？

From the perspective of leadership, and maybe more importantly, from the perspective of yourself, how do you work with that?

从领导的角度来看，也许更重要的是，从你自己的角度来看，你是如何处理这个问题的？

How do you calibrate wins and losses?

你如何校准胜利和失败？

How do you transmute losses into energy?

如何将损失转化为能量？

Because wins, we know, convert to energy, but losses oftentimes can sap our energy way down.

因为我们知道，胜利会转化为能量，但失败往往会消耗我们的能量。

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

To start with, I think that the selection process to get into the SEAL teams is going to weed out a bunch of people that can't recover very quickly from something bad.

首先，我认为进入海豹突击队的选拔过程将淘汰掉一群无法从糟糕的事情中很快恢复过来的人。

The kid that was the star of the football team, the star of the basketball team, the captain of this, the captain of that, he's been winning his whole life, he goes to BUD/S and he quits.

这个孩子是足球队的明星，篮球队的明星，这个队的队长，那个队的队长，他一生都在赢球，他去了 BUD/S，然后就退出了。

Because in BUD/S, you're not going to win.

因为在 BUD/S 中，你不会赢。

You're certainly not going to win everything.

你当然不会赢得一切。

They're going to find what you're not good at, and they're going to exploit that, and you're going to lose.

他们会发现你不擅长的东西，并利用它，而你就会失败。

A lot of guys that may lose and it disrupts their motivation, they're probably just going to quit.

很多人可能会失败，这会扰乱他们的动力，他们可能会放弃。

And so that's why you get this massive attrition rate with guys that are studs.

这就是为什么你会发现那些猛男的流失率如此之高。

Division one athlete, division one wrestlers, division one football players, division one runners and swimmers, they all come to BUD/S.

一级运动员、一级摔跤运动员、一级足球运动员、一级跑步运动员和游泳运动员，他们都来到 BUD/S。

They all quit.

他们都放弃了。

Not all of them quit, but there's plenty of examples of the highest level of collegiate athlete in sports that translate very well to what you're doing in basic SEAL training, and they quit.

并不是所有人都退出了，但是有很多体育运动中最高水平的大学运动员的例子，这些例子很好地转化为你在海豹突击队的基本训练中所做的事情，然后他们就退出了。

And sometimes it's because they don't know how to lose.

有时是因为他们不知道如何失败。

They don't know how to recover from a loss.

他们不知道如何从损失中恢复过来。

So I think already once you get to a SEAL team, you've got people that are, generally speaking, going to be pretty resilient when it comes to dealing with a loss.

所以我认为，一旦你加入海豹突击队，一般来说，你的员工在处理损失时就会非常有弹性。

Now, once you're in the teams, and what you're talking about is now you start taking much more significant loss.

现在，一旦你加入了团队，你所说的就是你开始承受更重大的损失。

You're not losing a race, you're losing one of your friends.

你不是输掉了一场比赛，而是失去了一个朋友。

And this is what, from a leadership perspective, you have to pay attention to.

从领导的角度来看，这就是你必须注意的。

So when you're a leader in any organization, you're basically in charge of a mob when it comes to what their morale is, and they feed off of each other just like a mob rioting in the streets going, "Oh, we can break this window.

因此，当你是任何组织的领导者时，你基本上就负责管理一群暴徒的士气，他们互相依赖，就像暴徒在街上骚乱一样，“哦，我们可以打破这扇窗户。

Let's break all the windows." And they move this mob mentality.

让我们打破所有的窗户吧。”他们改变了这种暴民心态。

And that happens with morale inside of a team.

这取决于团队内部的士气。

And you as a leader can't get caught up with the mob.

作为领导者，你不能被暴民追上。

You have to detach yourself from the mob mentally so that you don't get caught up in their emotions and their morale.

你必须在精神上远离暴民，这样你就不会陷入他们的情绪和士气之中。

Because if you get caught up in their emotions and you get caught up in their morale, you can't correct it.

因为如果你陷入他们的情绪和士气之中，你就无法纠正它。

So we go out on a mission.

所以我们出去执行任务。

The mission goes great.

任务进展顺利。

We get into a gunfight, kill a couple bad guys.

我们陷入枪战，杀死了几个坏人。

Everyone's okay, high fives, everyone's feeling great.

每个人都很好，击掌，每个人都感觉很好。

You come back to base, "Hey, we don't need to debrief.

你回到基地，“嘿，我们不需要汇报情况。

That was perfect.

那太完美了。

Hey, we don't need to get our gear maintained.

嘿，我们不需要维护我们的装备。

We can just go to bed.

我们可以去睡觉了。

We're awesome." That's when the leader has to say, "Oh, we've got the mob, and the mob is becoming slightly arrogant.

我们太棒了。”这时，领导者必须说：“哦，我们遇到了暴民，而且暴民变得有点傲慢了。

Hey, guys, real quick, that was a good op, but there's some things we could improve on." You got to bring that mob back, and bring them back to center line.

嘿，伙计们，快点，这是一个很好的操作，但还有一些事情我们可以改进。”你必须把那群暴徒带回来，把他们带回中心线。

Same thing in the other direction.

另一个方向也是如此。

You go out on an operation, it doesn't go well.

你出去做手术，进展并不顺利。

You go out on an operation, you take casualties.

你出去执行任务，就会造成人员伤亡。

Now you come back to base, you see guys moping around, you see the spirit starting to break, and same thing.

现在你回到基地，你看到人们闷闷不乐，你看到精神开始崩溃，同样的事情。

If you're part of that mob, you'll be with them.

如果你是那群暴徒的一员，你就会和他们在一起。

Your morale will be breaking, your spirit will be breaking.

你的士气将会崩溃，你的精神将会崩溃。

You got to look at them and say, "Oh, I see what's happening.

你必须看着他们说：“哦，我明白发生了什么。

Hey, guys, listen up.

嘿，伙计们，听着。

That was tough.

那很艰难。

Didn't go the way we wanted it to go.

没有按照我们希望的方式发展。

We need to learn some lessons.

我们需要吸取一些教训。

Here's some things I can do better.

这里有一些我可以做得更好的事情。

What can we do better to make sure that that never happens again?" So as a leader, when it comes to winning and losing, you're generally going to be the person countering what the mob mentality is.

我们能做些什么更好来确保这种情况不再发生？”因此，作为领导者，当谈到输赢时，你通常会成为对抗暴民心态的人。

Because when the mob starts winning, they want to keep winning, and they might get arrogant.

因为当暴民开始获胜时，他们想要继续获胜，并且他们可能会变得傲慢。

When the mob is losing, they might start to lose more because their attitude goes down the drain.

当暴民失败时，他们可能会因为他们的态度下降而开始失去更多。

So that's what you have to pay attention to from a leadership perspective.

所以从领导的角度来看，这是你必须注意的。

For me personally, I know what I did when I lost guys was focus on, all right, we need to celebrate the life, we need to mourn the loss, and then we need to go to work.

就我个人而言，我知道当我失去朋友时我所做的就是专注于，好吧，我们需要庆祝生活，我们需要哀悼失去的人，然后我们需要去工作。

We need to get our gear back on.

我们需要恢复装备。

We need to lock and load our weapons.

我们需要锁定并装载我们的武器。

We need to get back out there.

我们需要回到那里。

I know that that's what we needed to do.

我知道这就是我们需要做的。

So often the best way to contend with problems, with issues, with adversity, is action, is by taking action.

因此，应对问题、问题、逆境的最佳方法往往就是行动，就是采取行动。

The more you sit, and the more you wait, and the more time you spend with that adversity, with the upper hand inside your head, the worse it's going to get.

你坐着的时间越长，等待的时间越长，你在逆境中花费的时间越多，你的头脑中占据上风，事情就会变得越糟糕。

So for me, always taking action, making something happen.

所以对我来说，总是采取行动，让事情发生。

It doesn't have to be huge.

它不必很大。

It doesn't have to be some mammoth triumph that you're going to go and pursue.

你不必去追求某种巨大的胜利。

But if you say, "Hey, listen, what happened didn't go the way we wanted it to.

但如果你说：“嘿，听着，发生的事情并没有按照我们想要的方式发展。

We're going to get our gear back on.

我们要重新穿上装备。

We're going to go back out.

我们要出去了。

We're going to do this other mission." And it's in your personal life, too.

我们将执行另一项任务。”这也存在于你的个人生活中。

Something doesn't go the way you wanted it to go.

有些事情并没有按照你想要的方式进行。

You didn't get the job you wanted.

你没有得到你想要的工作。

You didn't get the hire.

你没有得到聘用。

You didn't get the promotion.

你没有获得晋升。

You can go home and sit there and dwell on it.

你可以回家坐在那里思考它。

That's not getting you any progress.

这不会让你取得任何进展。

Or you say, "Okay, you know what?

或者你说：“好吧，你知道吗？

Let me do a quick analysis.

让我快速分析一下。

Why didn't I get that promotion?

为什么我没有获得晋升？

Oh, it's because I didn't get this qualification," or, "I hadn't jumped through this gate." Okay, cool.

哦，是因为我没有获得这个资格，”或者说，“我没有跨过这扇门。”好吧，酷。

What do I need to do?

我需要做什么？

Let me look into how do I get to jump through that gate so next time I will get the promotion, and you start taking action.

让我看看如何才能跨过那扇门，以便下次我获得晋升，然后您开始采取行动。

Action for me is a cure for a lot of problems that we have in life.

对我来说，行动是解决生活中许多问题的良药。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.

我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。

I'm excited to share that AG1 has just launched their newest formulation, AG1 Pro.

我很高兴与大家分享，AG1 刚刚推出了他们的最新配方 AG1 Pro。

AG1 Pro takes the clinically backed AG1 formula, which is a blend of vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and adaptogens, and adds three important new ingredients, creatine monohydrate, calcium HMB, and zinc carnosine.

AG1 Pro 采用经过临床支持的 AG1 配方，该配方是维生素、矿物质、益生菌和适应原的混合物，并添加了三种重要的新成分：一水肌酸、HMB 钙和肌肽锌。

Each serving has five grams of creatine monohydrate to support muscle strength and performance as well as brain health, calcium HMB to support muscle recovery and reduce muscle breakdown, and zinc carnosine to support and improve the lining of your gut.

每份含有 5 克一水肌酸，可支持肌肉力量和性能以及大脑健康；HMB 钙可支持肌肉恢复并减少肌肉分解；肌肽锌可支持和改善肠道内壁。

All three of these ingredients have compelling science to support them, and therefore, I love seeing them added to the existing AG1 formula.

所有这三种成分都有令人信服的科学支持，因此，我喜欢看到它们添加到现有的 AG1 配方中。

As most of you know, I've been taking AG1 every day for nearly 14 years now.

正如你们大多数人所知，我每天服用 AG1 已有近 14 年了。

I started taking it long before I even knew what a podcast was.

早在我知道什么是播客之前我就开始服用它了。

It's a great product, and it's now made even better with the new AG1 Pro formula.

这是一款很棒的产品，现在新的 AG1 Pro 配方让它变得更好。

If you would like to try AG1 Pro, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get a special offer.

如果您想尝试 AG1 Pro，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 获取特别优惠。

AG1 is giving away a free bottle of omega-3 coenzyme Q10 with your first subscription.

AG1 首次订阅即可免费赠送一瓶 omega-3 辅酶 Q10。

Again, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get a free bottle of omega-3 coenzyme Q10 with your first AG1 subscription.

同样，请访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman，首次订阅 AG1 即可免费获得一瓶 omega-3 辅酶 Q10。

I think that in the context of moderating these systems, it's so key.

我认为在调节这些系统的背景下，这是非常关键的。

It's key to have a long arc in a career path, military, science, or otherwise.

在军事、科学或其他方面的职业道路上拥有长的弧线是关键。

As a father in particular, how do you apply these same sorts of ideas when your kid is kind of down because it's hard to be a 14-year-old, or because it was a bad day, or when they're up?

特别是作为一名父亲，当你的孩子因为 14 岁的生活很艰难，或者因为今天过得很糟糕，或者当他们情绪高涨而感到情绪低落时，你如何应用这些相同的想法？

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

Well, clearly it's a very similar thing to what I just talked about.

嗯，显然这与我刚才谈到的非常相似。

If your kid is doing well and wins the wrestling tournament and is like, "Yeah, I won the wrestling tournament." And what do they want to do?

如果您的孩子表现出色并赢得了摔跤锦标赛，并且会说：“是的，我赢得了摔跤锦标赛。”他们想做什么？

They want to eat a triple cheese pizza, right?

他们想吃三层奶酪披萨，对吧？

They want to go crazy.

他们想发疯。

And you as a leader and as a parent and as a friend need to say, "Hey, man, you did good.

作为领导者、父母和朋友，你需要说：“嘿，伙计，你做得很好。

That was awesome.

太棒了。

You had a great day.

你度过了愉快的一天。

But let's start thinking a little bit about next week, too.

但我们也开始思考一下下周的情况。

How about we just have a few slices of pizza as a reward?" And this goes with yourself as well.

我们只吃几片披萨作为奖励怎么样？”这也与你自己有关。

You do something, you have a success, and you say, "Oh, that's great.

你做了某事，你取得了成功，你会说：“哦，那太好了。

But all glory is fleeting, and I need to get back to work." And look, and do people go too far with that sometimes?

但所有的荣耀都是转瞬即逝的，我需要回去工作。”看看，人们有时会做得太过分吗？

Yes, absolutely.

是的，绝对是。

Sometimes people, they don't stop and celebrate at all, and those are the kind of people I think that get burned out eventually because they never say, "Hey, that was awesome.

有时人们根本不会停下来庆祝，我认为这些人最终会精疲力尽，因为他们从不说：“嘿，那太棒了。

We had a big win.

我们取得了巨大的胜利。

Cool.

酷。

High five." So I think, as a leader, as a friend, as a parent, as a spouse, you want to be able to modulate that, help modulate that.

高五。”所以我认为，作为一个领导者，作为一个朋友，作为一个父母，作为一个配偶，你希望能够调节它，帮助调节它。

Don't shut it down.

不要关闭它。

Your kid walks off the wrestling mat for a high five, and you say, "You could've won by more." No, I'm not talking about that.

你的孩子从摔跤垫上走下来，获得了高五分，你说：“你本来可以赢更多。”不，我不是在谈论这个。

Or your kid walks off the mat after losing, you say, "You got what you deserve." No. You've got to be the counter, the counterweight to the emotions that other people have.

或者你的孩子输了之后走下垫子，你说，“你得到了你应得的。”不。你必须成为其他人情绪的制衡者。

When you're doing a good job as a leader, as a friend, as a spouse, as a whatever, you're doing a good job as a counterweight.

当你作为一个领导者、作为一个朋友、作为一个配偶或者其他任何人都做得很好时，你就在作为平衡者方面做得很好。

I think that's a good way to look at it.

我认为这是一个很好的看待它的方式。

You want to provide some balance for people to make sure that they don't get out of control.

您希望为人们提供一些平衡，以确保他们不会失控。

And you notice when people have a downfall, it's normally because they've surrounded themselves with people that there's no counter to.

你会注意到，当人们情绪低落时，通常是因为他们周围都是无法抗拒的人。

There's no counterbalance.

没有任何制衡。

If you were my best friend and I went out drinking last night and had a great time and partied all night and met a girl, and you're like, "Heck yeah, let's do it again tonight," eventually, where are we going to be?

如果你是我最好的朋友，我昨晚出去喝酒，玩得很开心，整晚都在聚会，还认识了一个女孩，你会说，“哎呀，今晚我们再做一次吧”，最终，我们会在哪里？

We're going to be in the gutter somewhere.

我们将会在某处的阴沟里。

But if you say, "Hey, dude, that was awesome, but hey, remember, we got school on Monday." Right?

但如果你说，“嘿，伙计，那太棒了，但是嘿，记住，我们周一上学。”正确的？

And you kind of pull me back.

你有点把我拉了回来。

We've got to find balance in life and ourselves, and then we got to, as much as we can, provide balance for other people because people are emotional, and they get caught up in what they're doing, and you want to keep people balanced.

我们必须在生活和我们自己中找到平衡，然后我们必须尽我们所能，为其他人提供平衡，因为人们是情绪化的，他们会陷入自己正在做的事情中，而你想让人们保持平衡。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You seem to have a very strong sense of context and self.

你似乎有很强的背景感和自我意识。

Was there something in your upbringing, your parents, or was it just kind of how you always imagined yourself as like, "Yeah, this is who I am"?

你的成长经历、你的父母是否有什么问题，或者你总是把自己想象成“是的，这就是我”？

Because I actually think that many people do not have a very firm sense of self, or their sense of self is so rigid that they can only operate in this narrow trench of one domain of life, and they end up very isolated.

因为我其实觉得很多人的自我意识不是很坚定，或者说自我意识太僵化，只能在一个生活领域的狭隘沟里运作，最后变得很孤立。

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

As far as kind of where I became me, I just actually have to kind of give a lot of credit to the music that I grew up listening to and the attitude that we had back then.

就我成为的我而言，我实际上必须对我从小听的音乐和我们当时的态度给予很大的信任。

Listening to hardcore music, being able to stand up against what other people were saying, which is what you're doing when you're in that scene, and the whole DIY nature of it.

听硬核音乐，能够反抗别人所说的话，这就是你在那个场景中所做的事情，以及它的整个 DIY 本质。

"Hey, we can just do this ourselves.

“嘿，我们可以自己做这件事。

We can just make this happen for ourselves.

我们可以自己实现这一点。

We don't need anybody else.

我们不需要其他人。

We can do this." And that hardcore attitude and sticking by your friends and standing up and getting in fights and like, "That's what you're going to do?" That's kind of my attitude.

我们可以做到这一点。”还有那种顽固的态度，坚持你的朋友，站起来，打架，然后说，“这就是你要做的事？”这就是我的态度。

That music is the soundtrack to my life.

那音乐是我生活的配乐。

And so I always would have that music running in my head.

所以我的脑海里总是会响起那段音乐。

But to your question, I had something in me that when I heard that music for the first time, I was like, "Okay, here it is." I hear the Beatles, I hear the Grateful Dead, I hear the Rolling Stones, I hear the whoever, and you go, "Okay, that's fine." But when I heard hardcore music for the first time, when I heard the Cro-Mags, when I heard Agnostic Front, when I heard the Bad Brains, that was just like it was part of me already.

但对于你的问题，我内心有一种东西，当我第一次听到那首音乐时，我想，“好吧，就在这里。”我听到披头士乐队，我听到感恩死者乐队，我听到滚石乐队，我听到任何人的声音，然后你就说，“好吧，没关系。”但当我第一次听到硬核音乐时，当我听到 Cro-Mags 时，当我听到 Agnostic Front 时，当我听到 Bad Brains 时，那感觉就像它已经是我的一部分了。

I'm like a kid living in the woods in Connecticut.

我就像一个住在康涅狄格州树林里的孩子。

I'm just kind of hearing what I'm hearing.

我只是听到我所听到的。

You listen to the lyrics, listen to the lyrics of Minor Threat.

你听听歌词，听听《轻微威胁》的歌词。

Listen to the lyrics and you go, "Okay, this stuff, I agree with this stuff." And I just think that that kind of set a datum in my head Of being okay with being outside, being okay with saying no, being okay with being a rebel, being okay with not going along with what everyone else is doing.

听歌词，你就会说：“好吧，这个东西，我同意这个东西。”我只是认为这在我的脑海中设定了一个基准，可以接受户外活动，可以接受拒绝，可以接受叛逆，可以接受不随从其他人所做的事情。

That became very important when I was in the military, and I looked at what leadership might be telling me to do and might think to myself, "Hey, that doesn't seem like a good idea." And having the wherewithal to say, "Hey, boss, I'm not sure this is a good idea." Not to be a jerk about it, but just to say, "There might be a better way to get this done.

当我在军队时，这一点变得非常重要，我看看领导可能会告诉我做什么，我可能会想，“嘿，这似乎不是一个好主意。”并且有足够的能力说：“嘿，老板，我不确定这是个好主意。”我并不是要开玩笑，只是想说：“可能有更好的方法来完成这件事。

What do you think of this?" Or, "Hey, boss, can I ask you a question about that?" So I think if I had to trace it back, having Black Flag, "My War Side 2" on my record player for a year and a half straight, that's going to leave a mark, man.

你对此有何看法？”或者，“嘿，老板，我可以问你一个问题吗？”所以我想，如果我必须追溯它，连续一年半在我的电唱机上播放《黑旗》“My War Side 2”，那将会留下痕迹，伙计。

And I think it left a mark on me.

我认为它在我身上留下了印记。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What are your sources of motivation?

你的动力来源是什么？

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

Well, you probably heard me say that motivation isn't something that I am going to count on because it's just an emotion that's going to come and go, just like feeling happy.

嗯，你可能听我说过，我不会指望动力，因为它只是一种来来去去的情绪，就像感到快乐一样。

You feel happy right now, maybe you won't feel happy in 15 minutes.

你现在感到快乐，也许15分钟后你就不会感到快乐了。

You feel sad now, maybe you won't feel sad in 15 minutes.

你现在感到悲伤，也许15分钟后你就不会感到悲伤了。

You feel motivated right now, you might not feel motivated in 15 minutes.

你现在就感到有动力，15 分钟后你可能就不再有动力了。

Therefore, I can't rely on it, so I'm not going to put any money on just being motivated because it doesn't really matter to me.

因此，我不能依赖它，所以我不会把任何钱花在激励上，因为这对我来说并不重要。

So the daily actions that I take aren't from motivation, they're just from discipline.

所以我每天采取的行动不是出于动机，而是出于纪律。

Like I said earlier, I'm not going to get up and go through some big debate about, "Well, do I really feel like doing this?" No, I don't feel like doing it, but it doesn't matter, so I'm just going to go do it.

就像我之前说的，我不会站起来进行一些关于“嗯，我真的想这样做吗？”的大辩论。不，我不想这样做，但是没关系，所以我就去做吧。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You, in particular, have said several times that rather than looking for sources of things outside you, like a job or a relationship, which are all great, but as sources of energy or motivation or inspiration, to use action as a positive action as a source of energy.

尤其是你，已经说过好几次了，不要寻找你之外的事物的来源，比如工作或人际关系，这些都很棒，而是将其作为能量、动力或灵感的来源，而应将行动作为积极的行动作为能量的来源。

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

Yeah.

是的。

And positive action is when you have to contend with something.

积极行动是指当你必须应对某些事情时。

When there's something that you're afraid of, step into it, move towards it.

当你害怕某件事时，就踏入它，走向它。

You don't solve problems by running away from them.

你不能通过逃避问题来解决问题。

You solve them by moving towards them and figuring out what's going on.

你可以通过走向它们并弄清楚发生了什么来解决它们。

Then we could go down the whole path of talking about the indirect approach, which is a theory of combat, which I completely believe in.

然后我们就可以继续讨论间接方法，这是一种我完全相信的战斗理论。

But it also applies to interacting with other people.

但它也适用于与其他人的互动。

If you have a problem with some other person, to think to myself, "Well, I got a problem with Andrew.

如果你和其他人有问题，心里想，“好吧，我和安德鲁有问题。

I'm going to go confront him on it." And that might not be the best solution.

我要去跟他对峙一下。”这可能不是最好的解决方案。

In fact, it's probably not the best solution for me to go confront you with the problem because now we're going to have a confrontation.

事实上，我去面对你的问题可能不是最好的解决方案，因为现在我们要进行对抗。

It might be better for me to take an indirect approach and not confront you, but instead engage in a conversation with you about something that's maybe adjacent to the problem that I have.

对我来说，最好采取间接的方式，不要与您对峙，而是与您就可能与我遇到的问题相关的事情进行对话。

And then eventually that builds our relationship to a point where you start to recognize, "Oh, I bet Jocko feels something about this thing," and we can move towards a solution instead of me trying to punch you in the face with some truth that I believe versus the truth that you believe, and now we're engaged in combat, and that's bad.

最终，这将我们的关系建立到了这样的程度，你开始认识到，“哦，我打赌乔科对这件事有所感觉”，我们可以朝着解决方案迈进，而不是我试图用我相信的一些事实与你所相信的事实来打你的脸，现在我们正在进行战斗，这很糟糕。

There's going to be casualties.

会有人员伤亡。

I'd rather take an indirect approach and build a relationship where we can solve problems in a more positive way.

我宁愿采取间接的方式并建立一种我们可以以更积极的方式解决问题的关系。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, LMNT.

我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 LMNT。

LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.

LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。

That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium in the correct amounts, but no sugar.

这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的含量正确，但不含糖。

Proper hydration is critical for optimal brain and body function.

适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体的最佳功能至关重要。

Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish cognitive and physical performance.

即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低认知和身体表现。

It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.

获得充足的电解质也很重要。

The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are vital for functioning of all the cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.

电解质（钠、镁和钾）对于体内所有细胞（尤其是神经元或神经细胞）的功能至关重要。

Drinking LMNT dissolved in water makes it very easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.

饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT 可以很容易地确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。

To make sure that I'm getting proper amounts of hydration and electrolytes, I dissolve one packet of LMNT in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I first wake up in the morning, and I drink that basically first thing in the morning.

为了确保我获得适量的水合作用和电解质，当我早上第一次醒来时，我将一包 LMNT 溶解在大约 16 至 32 盎司的水中，并且我基本上早上第一件事就是喝它。

I'll also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes.

我还会在进行任何体育锻炼时饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT，尤其是在炎热的日子里，当我大量出汗并失去水和电解质时。

LMNT has a bunch of great-tasting flavors.

LMNT 有很多美味的口味。

I love the raspberry.

我喜欢覆盆子。

I love the citrus flavor.

我喜欢柑橘味。

Right now, LMNT has a limited edition lemonade flavor that is absolutely delicious.

现在LMNT推出了限量版柠檬水口味，绝对美味。

I hate to say that I love one more than all the others, but this lemonade flavor is right up there with my favorite other one, which is raspberry or watermelon.

我不想说我比其他所有口味都更喜欢其中一种，但这种柠檬水口味与我最喜欢的另一种口味（覆盆子或西瓜）不相上下。

Again, I can't pick just one flavor.

再说一次，我不能只选择一种口味。

I love them all.

我爱他们所有人。

If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman, spelled drink L-M-N-T.com/huberman, to claim a free LMNT sample pack with a purchase of any LMNT drink mix.

如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman（拼写为 Drink L-M-N-T.com/huberman），购买任意 LMNT 混合饮料即可领取免费 LMNT 样品包。

Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.

再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。

I also heard you say something earlier that's still flagging in my mind, which is not thinking too much.

我之前也听你说过一些话，现在我脑子里还残留着一些东西，没有想太多。

And you've talked about third-personing of the self.

你也谈到了自我的第三人称。

I'd love to talk a little bit more about this, even though it's a topic you've delved into before, and in particular, the topic of meditation.

我很想多谈谈这个问题，尽管这是您之前深入研究过的主题，特别是冥想的主题。

Do you meditate?

你冥想吗？

And if you don't do a kind of standard meditation, are there times throughout your day and your routine and your week where, as I'm describing this, it maps to something that kind of feels like open monitoring or focused meditation?

如果你不进行某种标准的冥想，那么在你的一天、你的日常生活和你的一周中，正如我所描述的那样，它是否会映射到某种感觉像开放监控或集中冥想的东西？

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

Yeah.

是的。

So no, I don't meditate.

所以不，我不冥想。

I don't think I've ever actually meditated for one second in my life, and I've never tried to do it.

我想我一生中从未真正冥想过一秒钟，而且我也从未尝试过这样做。

That being said, if the goal is to take a step back and detach from what's going on, I do that all day, every day.

话虽这么说，如果目标是退后一步，脱离正在发生的事情，我每天都会这样做。

And so that is something that I've talked about, and it's something that I tried to teach.

这就是我已经谈论过的事情，也是我试图教授的事情。

I tried to teach the young SEAL leaders not to get caught up in what's happening right in front of them, but to take a step back, detach from the situation, detach from their emotions.

我试图教导年轻的海豹突击队领导人不要陷入眼前发生的事情，而是退后一步，脱离现实，脱离情绪。

On the battlefield, I want people to be able to see more angles, more maneuvers, more opportunities, more of what the enemy might do, more perspective.

在战场上，我希望人们能够看到更多的角度、更多的机动、更多的机会、更多的敌人可能会做什么、更多的视角。

And it goes to what I was saying earlier about the mob.

这就是我之前所说的关于暴徒的内容。

Being able to be part of a team, part of the mob, part of the gang, but still have the ability to take a step back, detach from that, and assess what is the best way for this team to move forward, to me, is the true superpower of life.

能够成为团队的一部分，暴民的一部分，帮派的一部分，但仍然有能力后退一步，脱离困境，并评估这个团队前进的最佳方式，对我来说，才是生活真正的超能力。

And this goes back to when you start talking about people that are having Going through struggles in life.

这可以追溯到当你开始谈论那些在生活中经历挣扎的人时。

And I've described this before as if I'm looking at you and you're in a bad state.

我之前已经描述过，就好像我看着你，而你的状态很糟糕。

You're depressed, you're sad, you're moping around, you're not getting anything done.

你很沮丧，你很悲伤，你闷闷不乐，你什么也做不了。

And I'm looking at you from the outside and I'm thinking, for me, I see this storm cloud around your head.

我从外面看着你，我在想，对我来说，我看到你头上的乌云。

All you see, no matter what direction you look, is storm.

无论你朝哪个方向看，你所看到的都是风暴。

All you see is darkness.

你所看到的只是黑暗。

I'm outside and I'm looking.

我在外面，正在寻找。

I'm like, "Hey, man, this guy's got a great education.

我想，“嘿，伙计，这家伙受过很好的教育。

He's healthy.

他很健康。

He's got a good team around him.

他周围有一支优秀的团队。

He's got all these things going for him." But you, in that state, you literally cannot see anything but the darkness of the storm.

所有这些事情都对他有利。”但在那种状态下，你除了风暴的黑暗之外什么都看不到。

And that's what's so scary about when people enter that mode is I can look at it from the outside and be like, "Andrew, you just got to move four feet forward, and you're going to be through this thing." And yet you might hear me say that, and you go, "No, Jock, I'm looking ahead.

这就是当人们进入这种模式时最可怕的地方，我可以从外面看它，然后说：“安德鲁，你只需向前移动四英尺，你就会经历这件事。”然而你可能会听到我这么说，然后你就会说：“不，乔克，我在向前看。

There's nothing but darkness." So helping people move forward, take action, and be able to get that perspective, detach, and get outside themselves, get outside their own heads.

除了黑暗什么也没有。”因此，帮助人们前进，采取行动，并能够获得这样的视角，脱离出来，跳出自己的思维，跳出自己的头脑。

Tim Ferriss said, "Get out of your head, get into your body." That's one way to do it.

蒂姆·费里斯说：“走出你的头脑，进入你的身体。”这是一种方法。

Take action.

采取行动。

Go do things.

去做事吧。

It's very scary, and I'm sure you've had this experience where you're talking to someone that you know, and you're looking at them going, "Hey, man, no, it's going to be okay." You can clearly see that whatever is bothering them and dragging them down, you can clearly see.

这非常可怕，我相信你一定有过这样的经历，当你和你认识的人交谈时，你看着他们说：“嘿，伙计，不，不会有问题的。”你可以清楚地看到，无论什么困扰他们、拖垮他们，你都可以清楚地看到。

A lot of times, it's a relationship.

很多时候，就是一种关系。

The girl, the guy, they got dumped.

女孩，男孩，他们都被抛弃了。

And you go, "Hey, man, that person was a disaster anyways.

然后你会说，“嘿，伙计，无论如何，那个人是一场灾难。

You're better off without them." And they cannot compute that.

没有他们你会过得更好。”他们无法计算这一点。

They are stuck there.

他们被困在那里。

Or maybe it's the school that they didn't get into or the job that they didn't get, and they get so wrapped up in that, and they can't get out of that storm.

或者也许是他们没有进入的学校或他们没有找到的工作，他们就深陷其中，无法摆脱这场风暴。

It's such a helpless feeling.

这是一种多么无助的感觉。

And that's why trying to engage with people and trying to give people that superpower of detachment where they can take a step back and say, "You know what?

这就是为什么要努力与人们接触，并试图赋予人们超然的超能力，让他们可以退后一步说：“你知道吗？

You're right, man.

你是对的，伙计。

That girl, she wasn't who I really thought she was.

那个女孩，她并不是我真正想象的那样。

I should move on." Yes.

我应该继续前进。”是的。

The solution to your problem is not going to be found in the problem.

你的问题的解决方案不会在问题中找到。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

It's not going to be found in there.

在那里不会发现它。

You have to get out of the problem so that you can look at it, make an assessment, and you can assess how to solve the problem or whether you need to solve the problem or not.

你要从问题中走出来，你才能看问题，才能评估，你才能评估如何解决问题，是否需要解决问题。

So detachment is a superpower, man.

所以超然是一种超能力，伙计。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What is your process for engaging detachment or for disengaging?

您进行脱离或脱离的过程是什么？

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

I recognized in a moment what detachment was and how helpful it was.

我立刻意识到什么是超然，以及它有多么有帮助。

On an oil rig, doing a training mission, my whole platoon is in a skirmish line looking at a large area of the oil rig that we're supposed to be clearing.

在石油钻井平台上，执行训练任务时，我的整个排都在小冲突线上，看着我们应该清理的石油钻井平台的大片区域。

Again, this is not combat.

再次强调，这不是战斗。

This is in the '90s.

这是九十年代的事。

There's nothing going on.

什么事也没有发生。

We're just doing training.

我们只是在训练。

And I'm standing in this skirmish line.

而我就站在这条冲突线上。

And by the way, I'm the youngest and most junior guy in my platoon.

顺便说一句，我是我们排中最年轻、资历最浅的人。

And I'm standing there looking down the sight of my weapon, and I'm waiting for someone to make a call and tell us what to do.

我站在那里，低头看着我的武器，等待有人打电话告诉我们该怎么做。

And I wait for five seconds, and I wait for 10 seconds, and I wait for 20 seconds, and no one's saying anything.

我等了 5 秒，等了 10 秒，又等了 20 秒，没有人说什么。

And we're waiting for a leader in my platoon to make a call, to tell us what to do, to tell me what to do.

我们正在等待排长打电话，告诉我们该做什么，告诉我该做什么。

And finally, after 30 seconds, which seems like an eternity, I can't take it anymore.

最后，30 秒之后，我再也无法忍受了，这似乎是一个漫长的时间。

I take a step off the skirmish line.

我离开了冲突线。

I look to my left, I look to my right, and what I see is every other guy in my platoon is staring down their weapon, which means their field of view is tiny.

我向左看，向右看，我看到排里的其他人都盯着他们的武器，这意味着他们的视野很小。

It's like a 20-degree field of view.

就像20度的视野一样。

You're looking down the scope of your weapon or the sight of your weapon, and that's how big their field of view is.

你向下看你的武器的范围或武器的视线，这就是他们的视野有多大。

And I'm looking, I'm thinking, "Oh, there's my platoon commander.

我一边看着，一边想，“哦，那是我的排长。

He's looking down the sight of his weapon.

他低头看着他的武器。

There's my platoon chief.

那是我的排长。

He's looking down the sight of his weapon.

他低头看着他的武器。

There's my leading petty officer.

这是我的领导士官。

He's looking down the sight of his weapon.

他低头看着他的武器。

There's my assistant platoon commander.

这是我的副排长。

He's looking down the..." So everyone in the platoon is looking down the sight of their weapon, which means they all have a very narrow field of vision.

他正在俯视……”所以排中的每个人都在俯视他们武器的瞄准器，这意味着他们的视野都非常狭窄。

Well, when I take a step back and look to my left and look to my right, guess what kind of field of vision I got?

好吧，当我后退一步，向左看，向右看时，猜猜我的视野是什么样的？

I got a massive one.

我得到了一个巨大的。

I can see the whole scene, and I can see exactly what it is we need to do.

我可以看到整个场景，也可以清楚地看到我们需要做什么。

"Look, as a new guy, you need to keep your mouth shut.

“听着，作为一个新人，你需要闭嘴。

You don't say anything." And I'm thinking, "Well, but no one else is saying anything." So I muster up all the courage I can, and I open my mouth, and I say, "Hold left, clear right," which is a basic tactical call.

你什么也不说。”我在想，“好吧，但没有人说什么。”所以我鼓起所有的勇气，张开嘴，说：“向左坚守，向右清理”，这是一个基本的战术要求。

This is not a patent-level genius maneuver.

这不是专利级别的天才策略。

It's just a normal call to make in a situation that we were in.

在我们所处的情况下，这只是一个正常的呼叫。

I say, "Hold left, clear right." And I'm expecting to get kind of slapped, told, "Shut up, new guy." But instead, everyone just repeats the call, "Hold left, clear right.

我说：“向左靠拢，向右让开。”我预计会被打一巴掌，并被告知“闭嘴，新人。”但相反，每个人都只是重复喊话：“向左保持，向右通行。

Hold left, clear right." We get to the top of the oil rig, which means we cleared the whole thing.

守住左边，清除右边。”我们到达了石油钻井平台的顶部，这意味着我们清理了整个东西。

We're on the helo deck at the top, and we go into a debrief.

我们在顶部的直升机甲板上，进行汇报。

And now I'm expecting, "Okay, now I'm going to get told, 'Hey, what were you doing?

现在我期待着，“好吧，现在我会被告知，‘嘿，你在做什么？

You need to keep your mouth shut.'" And instead, the platoon chief goes, "Hey, Jocko, good call on the cellar deck down there." And I was kind of like, "Yeah, that's right." But then I thought to myself, "Hold on a second.

你需要闭嘴。’”相反，排长说道，“嘿，乔科，在下面的地窖甲板上干得好。”我有点像，“是的，没错。”但后来我对自己说：“等一下。

If I'm the youngest, most junior guy in this platoon, why was I able to see what we needed to do and make that call?

如果我是这个排中最年轻、资历最浅的人，为什么我能够看到我们需要做什么并做出决定？

Why did that just happen?" And then I realized it was because I took a step back.

为什么会发生这样的事？”然后我意识到这是因为我退了一步。

I broadened my field of view, which allowed me to think more clearly, because instead of being hyper-focused and narrowly focused, I broadened my range of vision.

我拓宽了视野，这让我能够更清晰地思考，因为我不再过度专注和狭隘地专注，而是拓宽了视野。

I took a breath before I made my call.

在我打电话之前我吸了一口气。

I had to take a nice breath to speak clearly.

我必须深吸一口气才能说清楚。

And I realized that taking a step back and detaching, I got to see infinitely more than even the most experienced guys in my platoon.

我意识到，退后一步，脱离现实，我会比我排中最有经验的人看到更多的东西。

And I started doing it all the time.

我开始一直这样做。

And I started doing it in land warfare.

我开始在陆战中这样做。

I started doing it in urban combat.

我开始在城市战斗中这样做。

I started doing it in all these tactical training scenarios.

我开始在所有这些战术训练场景中这样做。

These are just training.

这些只是训练。

This is the '90s.

这是 90 年代。

I started doing these training scenarios, and it always allowed me to see what we needed to do.

我开始做这些训练场景，它总是让我看到我们需要做什么。

Then I started doing it when I was having conversations with people.

然后当我与人交谈时我就开始这样做。

I'm having a conversation with my platoon chief, and I can see that he's starting to turn a little red in the face, and we're about to argue about something.

我正在和我的排长谈话，我可以看到他的脸开始变得有点红，我们即将争论一些事情。

I said, "Oh, wait a second." I'm taking a step back, looking, going, "He's getting mad right now, and he's the platoon chief." And I'd say, "Hey, you know what, chief?

我说：“哦，等一下。”我后退了一步，看着，说道：“他现在很生气，而且他是排长。”我会说：“嘿，你知道吗，队长？

That sounds good.

听起来不错。

Let me go relook at the plan," or whatever.

让我去重新看看计划，”或者别的什么。

And so I started to do this ...

所以我开始这样做......

kind of with my normal life, was to not get wrapped up in my own emotions, not get wrapped up in the gunfight that was happening right in front of my face, not to get wrapped up in the details of what was going on, but instead take a step back, detach, look around, and then you can make a much, much better decision.

在我正常的生活中，就是不要沉浸在自己的情绪中，不要沉浸在眼前发生的枪战中，不要沉浸在正在发生的事情的细节中，而是退后一步，脱离，环顾四周，然后你就可以做出更好的决定。

Now, listen, if you are the only person in a gunfight, it's going to be harder for you to do that because you've got to be focused on whatever you're shooting at.

现在，听着，如果你是枪战中唯一的人，那么你会更难做到这一点，因为你必须专注于你射击的任何东西。

But when you have 16 guys or 20 guys, they're all looking in the same direction, it's very easy to be the guy that goes, "I'm going to take a step back, look around, make a call." When I teach this to people now, the mechanics of it, take a step back.

但当你有 16 个人或 20 个人时，他们都朝同一个方向看，很容易成为那个人，“我要后退一步，环顾四周，打电话。”当我现在向人们传授这一点时，请退后一步。

Literally, you and I are at a meeting, there's a bunch of people, this starts to get a heated argument, I will literally push my chair back away from the table, change my perspective, open, widen my field of view.

从字面上看，你和我正在开会，有一群人，这开始引起激烈的争论，我真的会把椅子从桌子上推开，改变我的观点，开放，拓宽我的视野。

The other thing in the SEAL teams is you don't want to sound panicked on the radio.

海豹突击队的另一件事是你不想在广播中听起来惊慌失措。

For a couple reasons.

出于几个原因。

Number one, because when you panic on the radio, it's going to cause other people to panic.

第一，因为当你在广播中感到恐慌时，其他人也会感到恐慌。

Number two, if you panic on the radio and you sound panicked, everyone's going to make fun of you.

第二，如果你在广播中感到惊慌并且听起来很惊慌，每个人都会取笑你。

So what would I do before I would key up my radio?

那么在打开收音机之前我该做什么呢？

Take a breath.

吸一口气。

And so here I'm manually slowing down my breath.

所以在这里我手动放慢呼吸。

I'm broadening my field of view.

我正在拓宽我的视野。

So if you're in a meeting or you're at the supermarket parking lot and someone starts to yell at you, take a step back, take a breath, broaden your field of view, detach from those emotions that you're having, and make some space.

因此，如果你在开会或在超市停车场，有人开始对你大喊大叫，请退后一步，深吸一口气，拓宽视野，摆脱那些情绪，腾出一些空间。

And I'll tell you, here's another weird little nuanced thing.

我会告诉你，这是另一个奇怪的微妙的事情。

Lift your chin up and put your hands down.

抬起下巴，放下双手。

When I get defensive, what am I going to do?

当我处于防守状态时，我该怎么办？

I'm going to raise my hands up and I'm going to put my chin down.

我要举起双手，然后放下下巴。

That's like a fighting mode.

这就像战斗模式。

So if you and I are having a discussion and I'm starting to get heated and I'm starting to like, "Oh, he's not listening to me." Instead of me putting my chin down and putting my hands up to where I can put them in your face a little bit, no. I'm actually going to take a step back and I'm going to say, put my chin up.

因此，如果你和我正在讨论，而我开始变得激烈，我开始喜欢，“哦，他没有听我说话。”而不是我放下下巴，把手举到可以放在你脸上的地方，不。实际上我要后退一步，然后说，抬起下巴。

It changes my perspective a little bit more.

它更多地改变了我的观点。

Changes my visual perspective just by changing the angle of my head.

只需改变我的头部角度即可改变我的视觉视角。

Take a step back.

退一步。

Put my hands down.

把我的手放下。

I'm not being in a defensive mood.

我没有处于防御情绪。

I actually want to hear what you have to say.

我其实想听听你要说什么。

And if I start listening to what you have to say and not talking, it's very hard to be detached when you're talking.

如果我开始听你说的话而不是说话，那么当你说话时就很难保持超然。

It's another key component.

这是另一个关键组件。

You want to detach?

你想分开吗？

Shut your mouth.

闭上你的嘴。

I'm in a meeting in my companies, I'm not the one that's doing all the talking.

我正在公司开会，我不是一个在讲话的人。

In fact, I'm doing mostly listening.

事实上，我主要是在听。

And that way I'm detached.

这样我就脱离了。

I'm listening to what they have to say.

我正在听他们说些什么。

I'm more capable of seeing what holes there are in their plans by not moving my mouth, not talking, I'm listening.

通过不动嘴、不说话，而是倾听，我更能看出他们计划中的漏洞。

So those are some of the methodologies that I use and that I advise people to use in order to effectively start down the pathway of being able to detach in various scenarios.

这些是我使用的一些方法，我建议人们使用这些方法，以便有效地开始在各种情况下分离的途径。

It applies to everything that we do.

它适用于我们所做的一切。

If you're having a conversation with your significant other and you start to see that they're getting frustrated about something.

如果您正在与重要的其他人交谈，并且您开始发现他们对某些事情感到沮丧。

Now, look, if you're in the conversation 100%, you're going to get frustrated, too.

现在，看看，如果你 100% 都在谈话，你也会感到沮丧。

You're going to get frustrated, they're frustrated.

你会感到沮丧，他们也会感到沮丧。

The next thing you know, you've got an emotional argument going on.

接下来你就会知道，你们正在进行一场情绪化的争论。

Whereas if you can take a mental step back and say, "Wait a minute, why are they frustrated right now?

然而，如果你可以退后一步说：“等一下，为什么他们现在感到沮丧？

Oh, because I'm trying to solve their problem when really what they're looking to do is vent.

哦，因为我试图解决他们的问题，而他们真正想要做的是发泄。

Okay, got it.

好的，明白了。

Let them vent.

让他们发泄一下。

Okay, cool.

好吧，酷。

Oh, that sounds horrible.

哦，这听起来很可怕。

What do you think you're going to do?" Instead of saying, "Well, if that's the problem, here's what you should do," because people aren't always looking for that.

你觉得你要做什么？”而不是说“好吧，如果这就是问题所在，这就是你应该做的”，因为人们并不总是在寻找这个。

So yeah, this thing, this ability is, and it's something that can absolutely be trained, and that's what's cool about it, can absolutely be trained.

所以是的，这个东西，这个能力，它是绝对可以训练的东西，这就是它的酷之处，绝对可以训练。

It's not a natural gift.

这不是自然的礼物。

Some people will be better at it than others, but it's something that you can train.

有些人会比其他人更擅长，但这是你可以训练的。

And I used to see guys develop it, and I see people develop it now in the business world.

我曾经看到人们开发它，现在我看到人们在商业世界中开发它。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'd like to take a quick break to acknowledge one of our sponsors, David.

我想稍微休息一下，向我们的赞助商之一大卫表示感谢。

David makes protein bars unlike any other.

大卫制作的蛋白质棒与众不同。

Their newest bar, the Bronze Bar, has 20 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar.

他们最新的 Bronze Bar 含有 20 克蛋白质，仅 150 卡路里，零克糖。

I have to say, these are the best-tasting protein bars I've ever had, and I've tried a lot of protein bars over the years.

我不得不说，这些是我吃过的味道最好的蛋白质棒，这些年来我尝试过很多蛋白质棒。

These new David bars have a marshmallow base, and they're covered in chocolate coating, and they're absolutely incredible.

这些新的大卫巧克力棒有一个棉花糖底座，上面覆盖着巧克力涂层，它们绝对令人难以置信。

I, of course, eat regular whole foods.

当然，我经常吃天然食品。

I eat meat, chicken, fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables, et cetera, but I also make it a point to eat one or two David bars per day as a snack, which makes it easy to hit my protein goal of one gram of protein per pound of body weight.

我吃肉、鸡肉、鱼、鸡蛋、水果、蔬菜等，但我也强调每天吃一两块大卫棒作为零食，这样很容易达到我每磅体重一克蛋白质的蛋白质目标。

And that allows me to take in the protein I need without consuming excess calories.

这使我能够摄入所需的蛋白质，而不会消耗过多的热量。

I love all the David Bronze Bar flavors, including Cookie Dough, Caramel Chocolate, Double Chocolate, Peanut Butter Chocolate.

我喜欢大卫青铜棒的所有口味，包括饼干面团、焦糖巧克力、双重巧克力、花生酱巧克力。

They all actually taste like candy bars.

它们实际上尝起来都像棒棒糖。

Again, they're amazing.

再说一次，他们太棒了。

But again, they have no sugar, and they have 20 grams of protein with just 150 calories.

但同样，它们不含糖，并且含有 20 克蛋白质，只有 150 卡路里热量。

If you'd like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman.

如果您想尝试 David，可以访问 david Protein.com/huberman。

Right now, David is offering a deal where if you buy four cartons, you get the fifth carton for free.

现在，大卫正在提供一项优惠，如果您购买四箱，您可以免费获得第五箱。

You can also find David on Amazon or in stores such as Target, Walmart, and Kroger.

您还可以在亚马逊或 Target、沃尔玛和克罗格等商店找到 David。

Again, to get the fifth carton for free, go to davidprotein.com/huberman.

同样，要免费获得第五箱，请访问 david Protein.com/huberman。

Do you think there's value to doing things each day that suck a little bit, or from time to time doing something that puts one into a state of deliberate discomfort?

你认为每天做一些有点糟糕的事情，或者时不时地做一些让一个人故意感到不舒服的事情，有价值吗？

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

Yeah, 100%.

是的，100%。

Even in order to improve yourself, you've got to impose some discipline on yourself, right?

即使为了提高自己，你也必须对自己施加一些纪律，对吗？

Just like you would develop your legs by doing squats, and you would develop your back by doing pull-ups, I think you would develop your resiliency by doing repetitions of things that require you to be tougher.

就像你可以通过深蹲来锻炼你的双腿，你可以通过引体向上来锻炼你的背部一样，我认为你可以通过重复做那些需要你更强硬的事情来锻炼你的弹性。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I just want to extend an enormous thank you.

我只想向您表示衷心的感谢。

As a civilian, thank you for the work you did in the military, but also teaching people about the military.

作为一名平民，感谢您在军队中所做的工作，同时也向人们传授了军事知识。

I think a lot of people don't realize what it's about at any level, and learning about your experience there and what you've observed, bringing other people's experiences from the military more broadly is super important, and sharing this and being able to entertain some of my scientific riffs.

我认为很多人在任何层面上都没有意识到它的意义，了解你在那里的经历和你所观察到的情况，更广泛地从军队中汲取其他人的经验是非常重要的，分享这一点并能够接受我的一些科学即兴发挥。

So thank you, thank you, thank you.

所以谢谢你，谢谢你，谢谢你。

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

There's plenty of people that have done way more than I've ever done and sacrificed infinitely more than I ever sacrificed.

有很多人所做的事情比我做过的要多得多，做出的牺牲也比我牺牲的多得多。

So I'm thankful for being here.

所以我很感谢来到这里。

I know that you put all kinds of information, and the same back at you.

我知道你提供了各种各样的信息，而同样的信息也返回给你。

I have greatly benefited from the information that you put out, and so I thank you as well, and appreciate coming on here and appreciate you spreading the word about how people can be better yourself.

我从您提供的信息中受益匪浅，因此我也感谢您，并感谢您来到这里并感谢您传播有关人们如何变得更好的自己的信息。

So thanks for having me.

所以谢谢你邀请我。

I appreciate it, man.

我很感激，伙计。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Let's do it again.

让我们再做一次。

Jocko Willink:

乔科·威林克：

Hello.

你好。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Look what TJ Maxx dragged in.

看看 TJ Maxx 拖进来了什么。

Speaker 3:

演讲者3：

"The Devil Wears Prada 2" is now streaming on Disney+ and Hulu.

《穿普拉达的女王 2》现已在 Disney+ 和 Hulu 上播出。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We are digital, we are downloadable, we're streamable.

我们是数字化的，我们是可下载的，我们是流媒体的。

Speaker 3:

演讲者3：

The fashion event of the year is certified fresh.

年度时尚盛事被证明是新鲜的。

Pull yourself together.

振作起来。

We have work to do.

我们还有工作要做。

Critics say it's smart and witty, and the perfect sequel.

评论家说它聪明又诙谐，是完美的续集。

That's all.

就这样。

Get runway ready for "The Devil Wears Prada 2" on Disney+ and Hulu.

为 Disney+ 和 Hulu 上的《穿普拉达的女魔头 2》做好准备。

Rated PG-13.

评级为 PG-13。