Essentials: How to Access Your Creativity | Rick Rubin
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Welcome to Huberman Lab Essentials, where we revisit past episodes for the most potent and actionable science-based tools for mental health, physical health, and performance.
欢迎来到 Huberman Lab Essentials，在这里我们回顾过去的剧集，寻找针对心理健康、身体健康和表现的最有效、最可操作的基于科学的工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
And now for my discussion with Rick Rubin.
现在我与里克·鲁宾进行讨论。
Great to have you here today, Rick.
很高兴今天你能来到这里，瑞克。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for having me.
谢谢你有我。
It's a pleasure.
我的荣幸。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Of all the topics in science, and in particular in neuroscience, I confess that creativity is the most difficult one to capture.
在科学的所有主题中，特别是在神经科学中，我承认创造力是最难捕捉的一个。
As I went into your book, the example that you give, this idea that ideas and creativity are a little bit like a cloud.
当我读到你的书时，你给出的例子，想法和创造力有点像云。
If you look at it at one moment, you might think that it looks like one thing, but then you look at it a moment later, it could be quite a bit different, and if you look at it an hour later, it very well could be gone.
如果你在某个时刻看它，你可能会认为它看起来像一件事，但是当你过一会儿再看它时，它可能会有很大不同，如果你在一小时后看它，它很可能会消失。
How did that come to you, and how does it serve you in trying to, I don't want to say extract, but trying to access creativity?
你是怎么想到这一点的？它对你尝试（我不想说摘录）但尝试获得创造力有什么帮助？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think the best way to think about it is like a dream.
我认为最好的思考方式就是像做梦一样。
It's like if you think about your dreams, they don't necessarily make sense.
就像如果你思考你的梦想，它们不一定有意义。
When you wake up, you might remember part but not the whole thing.
当你醒来时，你可能会记得部分而不是全部。
Then if you start writing them down, they'll come back.
然后，如果你开始把它们写下来，它们就会回来。
And they may not make sense to you.
它们对你来说可能没有意义。
Maybe someday in the future, you'll be able to look back and understand what they mean, and maybe not.
也许将来的某一天，你回过头来看就能明白它们的意思，也可能不能。
And that's sort of how the art making process works, is we're making things and we're looking for a feeling in ourselves.
这就是艺术创作过程的运作方式，我们在创作东西的同时也在寻找自己的感觉。
It could be a feeling of excitement or enthusiasm, a feeling of interest, a feeling of curiosity, I want to know more.
可能是一种兴奋或热情的感觉，一种感兴趣的感觉，一种好奇的感觉，我想知道更多。
It's not an intellectual process.
这不是一个智力过程。
It's a different thing.
这是另一回事。
I think language is insufficient to drill down on creativity.
我认为语言不足以深入挖掘创造力。
It's closer to magic than it is science.
它比科学更接近魔法。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Do you think kids are, just by definition and by design, more creative than adults?
您认为从定义和设计上来说，孩子比成年人更有创造力吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
Kids are open, and they have no baggage.
孩子们是开放的，他们没有行李。
They don't have any belief system.
他们没有任何信仰体系。
They don't know how things are supposed to work.
他们不知道事情应该如何运作。
They just see what is.
他们只是看到是什么。
Most of us select from an endless number of data points available to us, as a species, to make sure that we don't die and to procreate and to feed ourselves, are probably the primary functions first.
作为一个物种，我们大多数人都从无数可用的数据点中进行选择，以确保我们不会死亡、繁衍和养活自己，这可能是首要的功能。
And then we learn things about what's right and what's wrong, and we learn things about how to do certain things, or we're inspired by someone who makes something we love, and we want to do it the way they do it.
然后我们了解什么是对的，什么是错的，我们了解如何做某些事情，或者我们受到那些制作我们喜欢的东西的人的启发，我们想按照他们的方式去做。
And all of those things undermine the purity of the creative process.
所有这些都破坏了创作过程的纯粹性。
They can be tools to build your skill set to be able to do it yourself.
它们可以成为培养您独立完成技能的工具。
Like if you're a singer, you might imitate a singer you really like for a while to get good at it, and then eventually come to find your own voice.
就像如果你是一名歌手，你可能会模仿你真正喜欢的歌手一段时间来擅长，然后最终找到自己的声音。
But if you're three years old or five years old and you try singing, you're not singing like anyone else.
但如果你在三岁或五岁的时候尝试唱歌，你就不会像其他人那样唱歌。
You're singing with your own voice.
你用自己的声音唱歌。
And when you make something, you're making it based on not knowing.
当你做某事时，你是在不知道的基础上做的。
And I think I had the advantage early in my career of starting making music without any experience, which was helpful because I didn't know what rules I was breaking.
我认为我在职业生涯早期的优势是在没有任何经验的情况下开始制作音乐，这很有帮助，因为我不知道自己违反了哪些规则。
I was doing things that other people wouldn't do.
我正在做别人不会做的事情。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
When something feels creatively right, let's say in the studio or maybe even you're listening to something that somebody sent you, and again, this could be about writing or comedy or science or podcasting for that matter, how do you, say, keep going that way when they might not even recognize that they did it?
当某件事在创意上感觉正确时，比如说在工作室里，或者甚至你正在听别人发给你的东西，再说一次，这可能是关于写作、喜剧、科学或播客，当他们甚至没有意识到他们这样做时，你如何继续这样做？
And I'm guessing a lot of times they don't.
我猜很多时候他们不会。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'll try to be in a setting where, as we're talking about it, we can engage with it in that moment.
当我们谈论它时，我会尝试处于一个我们可以在那一刻参与其中的环境。
Let's say I was producing your new record, and you played me something, and I had some thoughts about it.
假设我正在制作你的新唱片，你给我播放了一些东西，我对此有一些想法。
It wouldn't be so helpful for me to tell you what those were.
告诉你那些是什么对我来说没有多大帮助。
It'd be better for us to wait till we were in a place where we could try things and see where it goes.
对我们来说，最好等到我们可以尝试一些事情并看看它会走向何方。
I wouldn't rely on language to do it.
我不会依赖语言来做到这一点。
It would be more of making a suggestion of something that's actionable.
这更多的是提出一些可行的建议。
We try it, and then we have more data.
我们尝试一下，然后我们就有了更多数据。
It's that simple.
就是这么简单。
So much of when we go to school, it's to get us to follow the rules.
当我们上学时，很多时候都是为了让我们遵守规则。
And in art, it's different because the rules are there as a scaffolding to be chipped away as need be.
在艺术中，情况有所不同，因为规则就像脚手架一样，可以根据需要被拆除。
Sometimes they're helpful, sometimes they're not.
有时它们很有帮助，有时却没有。
Understanding how you feel in the face of other voices without second-guessing yourself is probably the single most important thing to practice as an artist or skill set to develop as an artist, is to know how you feel and own your feelings.
了解自己面对其他声音的感受，而不对自己进行事后怀疑，可能是作为艺术家练习或发展作为艺术家的最重要的一件事，就是了解自己的感受并拥有自己的感受。
If I'm undermining my taste for some commercial idea, it defeats the whole purpose of doing this.
如果我破坏了我对某些商业想法的品味，那就违背了这样做的全部目的。
That's not what this process is about.
这不是这个过程的目的。
This process is, I'm doing me, and I'm showing you who I am, and you can like it or not, but either way, this is still how I see it.
这个过程就是，我在做我自己，我在向你展示我是谁，你可以喜欢也可以不喜欢，但不管怎样，这仍然是我的看法。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Hey, everyone.
嘿，大家。
To celebrate the launch of my new book entitled "Protocols," I'm pleased to share that I'll be hosting three live events very soon.
为了庆祝我的新书《协议》的推出，我很高兴地告诉大家，我很快将举办三场现场活动。
The first live event is in New York City at Radio City Music Hall on September 17th.
第一场现场活动将于 9 月 17 日在纽约无线电城音乐厅举行。
The second event is in Los Angeles at the Dolby Theatre on October 8th.
第二场活动将于 10 月 8 日在洛杉矶杜比剧院举行。
And the third live event is in San Francisco at The Masonic on October 28th.
第三场现场活动将于 10 月 28 日在旧金山共济会举行。
At each of these events, I'll be discussing topics from the book, and my favorite part, taking questions directly from you, the audience.
在每次活动中，我都会讨论书中的主题以及我最喜欢的部分，并直接回答观众的问题。
To get tickets, you can go to hubermanlab.com/events and use the code PROTOCOLS to get early access.
要获取门票，您可以访问 hubermanlab.com/events 并使用代码 PROTOCOLS 抢先体验。
Again, that's hubermanlab.com/events and use the code PROTOCOLS to get early access to tickets.
同样，这是 hubermanlab.com/events 并使用代码 PROTOCOLS 来提前获取门票。
In your book you describe, again, when you're thinking about the creative process as the cloud For me, again, it just serves as such a powerful anchor.
在你的书中，你再次描述了当你将创作过程视为云时，对我来说，它再次充当了如此强大的锚。
And then I think about the biology, the neurobiology of strategy formation or strategy implementation, and then almost by sheer luck or miraculously, I turn a few pages later into the book and there's a description of how animals that are trying to accomplish something, eat, mate, find water, the requirements of living, it requires a narrow visual focus.
然后我想到了生物学，策略形成或策略实施的神经生物学，然后几乎纯粹是运气或奇迹般，我后来翻了几页书，里面描述了动物如何试图完成某些事情，吃饭，交配，寻找水，生活的要求，它需要狭窄的视觉焦点。
This is something my lab is kind of obsessed with and I've been obsessed with.
这是我的实验室和我一直痴迷的事情。
And in that more narrow visual focus, we know that the playbook becomes more narrow.
在更狭窄的视觉焦点中，我们知道剧本变得更狭窄。
Now, at some point, in order to come up with a new creative idea, that means broadening vision is essential in some way, or broadening thinking.
现在，在某些时候，为了想出一个新的创意，这意味着在某种程度上拓宽视野，或者拓宽思维是必不可少的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, it could either be a broadening or a narrowing, but it's changing the aperture from the standard to present something new that maybe you already knew but didn't know you knew it.
嗯，它可能是扩大或缩小，但它改变了标准的孔径，以呈现一些新的东西，也许你已经知道但不知道你知道它。
It's not unlike what a comedian does.
这与喜剧演员的做法没什么不同。
A comedian makes you laugh.
喜剧演员会让你开怀大笑。
Usually what they're saying, it's outrageous, but you know that it's right, just no one says it that way or no one has said it that way before.
通常他们所说的都是令人愤慨的，但你知道这是对的，只是没有人这么说过，或者以前没有人这么说过。
But it's always the truth in it that makes it funny.
但其中的真相总是让它变得有趣。
Recognizing something that seems really obvious once you see it, but seems like nobody else sees it or no one else points it out.
认识到某件事一旦你看到它就显得非常明显，但似乎没有其他人看到它或没有其他人指出它。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
So do you think nowadays the fact that one can create something and quote unquote "release it quickly", I can put something out onto Twitter or Instagram now and I will get immediate feedback, which is external feedback of course, but then I can iterate on the basis of that feedback.
那么你认为现在人们可以创建一些东西并引用“快速发布它”这一事实，我现在可以将一些东西发布到 Twitter 或 Instagram 上，我会立即得到反馈，这当然是外部反馈，但随后我可以根据该反馈进行迭代。
Do you think that's problematic for the larger opportunity for creativity?
您认为这对于更大的创造力机会来说有问题吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't think it's wrong or right.
我不认为这是错误或正确的。
It's more information that you can use or not use and use it in a useful way, and you can make something and put it out and people can not like it and you're like, "Oh, they still don't get it.
这是更多的信息，你可以使用或不使用，并以有用的方式使用它，你可以制作一些东西并将其发布，人们可能不喜欢它，你会说，“哦，他们仍然不明白。
I got to go harder." There could be different stories that happen at the same time where you're making something and you have an idea of what it is, and then other people engage with it and they have a different idea of what it is, and they like it for a different reason than you did, or dislike it for a reason different than the reason you like it.
我必须加倍努力。”在你制作某样东西的同时，可能会发生不同的故事，你对它是什么有一个想法，然后其他人参与其中，他们对它是什么有不同的想法，他们喜欢它的原因与你不同，或者不喜欢它的原因与你喜欢它的原因不同。
We can't control any of those things.
我们无法控制这些事情。
The only part of it that we can control is how we relate to the thing that we make.
我们唯一可以控制的部分是我们如何与我们所做的事情建立联系。
And any external information that undermines the clarity of that connection is probably bad for the art, is my guess.
我的猜测是，任何破坏这种联系清晰度的外部信息都可能对艺术不利。
All I've ever tried to make was something I like or something that I felt like was missing as a fan that I wanted, and nobody was making it, so I'll make it.
我曾经尝试做的只是我喜欢的东西，或者我觉得作为我想要的粉丝所缺少的东西，而没有人能做到，所以我会做到。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
When I listen to an album or a song, I have to assume that at some point it becomes not strategy development or creativity, but strategy implementation.
当我听一张专辑或一首歌时，我必须假设在某些时候它不再是策略开发或创造力，而是策略实施。
Like, songs are going to come in this order.
就像，歌曲将按此顺序出现。
At what point does one decide, okay, now's the time to get into that more narrow focus of effort.
人们在什么时候决定，好吧，现在是时候进入更狭窄的工作重点了。
Like, we've got it.
就像，我们已经得到了。
Let's run with this.
让我们开始吧。
Because there is a component of the creative process that involves packaging and finishing and...
因为创意过程的一个组成部分涉及包装和整理以及......
Is that part less satisfying to you or is it just all part of the same larger arc?
该部分是否令您不太满意，或者它只是同一个更大弧线的一部分？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's all part of the same.
这都是同一个的一部分。
It's nice.
很好。
There's a good feeling.
有一种很好的感觉。
There's usually a good feeling when something is done.
当某件事完成时，通常会有一种良好的感觉。
It's a commitment because up until the time that you say it's done, you can keep experimenting and changing it.
这是一种承诺，因为在您说完成之前，您可以继续尝试和更改它。
If you think, well, maybe tomorrow I can make it better, then it's not finished.
如果你认为，好吧，也许明天我可以做得更好，那么事情还没有完成。
And you keep thinking that for a long time, you can do that forever and never put out anything.
在很长一段时间里，你一直认为你可以永远这样做，并且永远不会推出任何东西。
Getting to the point where you're ready to sign off is a good feeling.
准备好签字的感觉很好。
One of the things I talk about in the book is because it is a difficult thing to do, because it's fun to play and it's fun to, maybe it's not the best it could be yet.
我在书中谈到的一件事是因为这是一件很难做的事情，因为它玩起来很有趣并且很有趣，也许它还不是最好的。
To use whatever the next project is going to be as motivation to finish the one you're working on now.
使用下一个项目的任何内容作为完成你现在正在做的项目的动力。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
I'm very interested in your process.
我对你的过程很感兴趣。
When it comes to going from project to project and you know you're going to be doing work with somebody, do you have a process for removing the functions of the day and what you were doing last week and what's going on and how do you clear the static?
当涉及到从一个项目到另一个项目并且您知道您将与某人一起工作时，您是否有一个流程来删除当天的功能以及您上周所做的事情以及发生的事情以及如何清除静电？
What are some of the operational steps that you think might be more generalizable regardless of where somebody in Africa is listening to this now?
无论非洲人现在在哪里聆听，您认为哪些操作步骤可能更具有普遍性？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I would say when I engage in a particular project, whatever it is, I dedicate all of myself for that period of time, whatever it is, whether it be 20 minutes or whether it be five hours, whatever it is.
我想说，当我从事一个特定的项目时，无论它是什么，我都会在这段时间内奉献出自己的全部，无论它是什么，无论是 20 分钟还是 5 小时，无论它是什么。
Total focus and no outside distraction whatsoever.
全神贯注，没有任何外界干扰。
And when I leave that process, I do my best not to think about it when I'm away from it.
当我离开这个过程时，我会尽力不去想它。
I don't bring any materials with me.
我没有带任何材料。
I don't leave the studio with works in progress and spend time listening to them during the day or looking for ideas.
我不会带着正在进行的作品离开工作室，而是花时间在白天聆听它们或寻找想法。
I stay as far away from it when I'm not directly engaging in it as possible.
当我不直接参与它时，我会尽可能远离它。
And in the best of situations, I have something else to totally engage myself in in between.
在最好的情况下，我还有其他事情可以让自己全身心投入其中。
So instead of working on project A for five hours and then leaving and doing nothing, I'm hoping to engage in a project B or B, C, and D with all of myself before going back to project A again.
因此，我不想在项目 A 上工作五个小时然后离开，什么也不做，而是希望在再次回到项目 A 之前全力投入项目 B 或 B、C 和 D。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Even though you're disengaged, do you believe that your subconscious is working it through?
即使你已经脱离了现实，你相信你的潜意识正在解决这个问题吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I believe so.
我相信是这样。
I believe so.
我相信是这样。
And I think in general, to stew over a problem is not the way to solve a problem Think to hold the problems lightly.
我认为总的来说，沉思一个问题并不是解决问题的方法。要轻松地对待问题。
And when I say a problem, when we're starting a project, there's a question mark at the beginning of every project.
当我说一个问题时，当我们开始一个项目时，每个项目的开头都会有一个问号。
I'm always anxious when I start a new project because I have no idea what's going to happen.
当我开始一个新项目时，我总是很焦虑，因为我不知道会发生什么。
I never know.
我永远不知道。
There's always a sense of anxiety because I know whatever's going to happen is completely out of my control.
我总是有一种焦虑感，因为我知道无论发生什么，都完全超出我的控制范围。
Something either interesting or not will appear, and then we're going to follow that wherever it goes.
一些有趣的或不有趣的东西会出现，然后我们将跟踪它所到之处。
And until something appears for us to follow, I have a lot of anxiety.
在我们可以遵循的事情出现之前，我会感到非常焦虑。
Even though it has never not come, it has come every time.
虽然它从来没有来过，但它每一次都来了。
But there's something about it, because I also feel like there might be expectation on me that I'm going to make it happen, and I know that's not happening.
但这是有道理的，因为我也觉得人们可能期望我能够实现这一目标，但我知道这不会发生。
That's not how it works.
事情不是这样的。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, LMNT.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 LMNT。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium in the correct amounts, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的含量正确，但不含糖。
Proper hydration is critical for optimal brain and body function.
适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体的最佳功能至关重要。
Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish cognitive and physical performance.
即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低认知和身体表现。
It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.
获得充足的电解质也很重要。
The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are vital for functioning of all the cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.
电解质（钠、镁和钾）对于体内所有细胞（尤其是神经元或神经细胞）的功能至关重要。
Drinking LMNT dissolved in water makes it very easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.
饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT 可以很容易地确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。
To make sure that I'm getting proper amounts of hydration and electrolytes, I dissolve one packet of LMNT in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I first wake up in the morning, and I drink that basically first thing in the morning.
为了确保我获得适量的水合作用和电解质，当我早上第一次醒来时，我将一包 LMNT 溶解在大约 16 至 32 盎司的水中，并且我基本上早上第一件事就是喝它。
I'll also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes.
我还会在进行任何体育锻炼时饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT，尤其是在炎热的日子里，当我大量出汗并失去水和电解质时。
LMNT has a bunch of great-tasting flavors.
LMNT 有很多美味的口味。
I love the raspberry.
我喜欢覆盆子。
I love the citrus flavor.
我喜欢柑橘味。
Right now, LMNT has a limited edition lemonade flavor that is absolutely delicious.
现在LMNT推出了限量版柠檬水口味，绝对美味。
I hate to say that I love one more than all the others, but this lemonade flavor is right up there with my favorite other one, which is raspberry or watermelon.
我不想说我比其他所有口味都更喜欢其中一种，但这种柠檬水口味与我最喜欢的另一种口味（覆盆子或西瓜）不相上下。
Again, I can't pick just one flavor.
再说一次，我不能只选择一种口味。
I love them all.
我爱他们所有人。
If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman, spelled drink L-M-N-T.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with a purchase of any LMNT drink mix.
如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman（拼写为 Drink L-M-N-T.com/huberman），购买任何 LMNT 混合饮料即可领取免费 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。
So what I keep coming back to is that I'm imagining in my mind two ends of the continuum.
所以我不断回想起的是我在脑海中想象连续体的两端。
One that is about fairly narrow focus, training, training, strategy implementation, cultivating craft, building craft.
其关注点相当狭窄，包括培训、培训、战略实施、培养工艺、建造工艺。
And then the other side is the cloud.
然后另一边就是云。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
And so we're taking this cloud and we're deciding what things are.
所以我们正在利用这个云并决定它是什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
We go through our lives doing this all day with everything we see.
我们在一生中整天都在做这样的事，处理我们所看到的一切。
If it's something we don't know and something we're not familiar with, first thing is, this doesn't make sense.
如果这是我们不知道、不熟悉的东西，那么首先，这是没有意义的。
Then what we do is, without thinking, we create a story that explains what just happened, a hypothetical.
然后我们所做的就是不假思索地创造一个故事来解释刚刚发生的事情，一个假设。
Oh, maybe he's running because his dog ran away and he's chasing his dog.
哦，也许他正在逃跑，因为他的狗逃跑了，而他正在追他的狗。
Maybe that's why he's running.
也许这就是他跑步的原因。
And as soon as we have that thought of what it might be, we relax because now it's not just a guy running and this is weird, but it's a guy running.
一旦我们想到它可能是什么，我们就会放松，因为现在不仅仅是一个人在跑步，这很奇怪，但它是一个人在跑步。
Oh, he's probably running after his dog.
哦，他可能正在追他的狗。
And now we register that story that we just made up without even knowing we were making it up as what happened.
现在我们记录了我们刚刚编造的故事，甚至不知道我们正在编造它所发生的事情。
And then later in the day, if someone says, "Yeah, did you see that guy running down the block?" It's like, "Yeah, he was chasing his dog.
然后在当天晚些时候，如果有人说：“是的，你看到那个沿着街区跑的人了吗？”就像是，“是的，他在追他的狗。
I saw that." And you won't even realize that it was the maybe hypothetical story that was the first possible explanation that allowed you to continue walking.
我看到了。”你甚至不会意识到，这个可能是假设的故事是第一个让你继续行走的可能解释。
Our whole lives are reacting to things, making up a story of what we think may have happened without realizing that's what we're doing, and then living the rest of our lives as if that thing that we made up really happened, and we never know.
我们的一生都在对事物做出反应，编造一个我们认为可能发生的事情的故事，却没有意识到这就是我们正在做的事情，然后我们的余生就好像我们编造的事情真的发生过一样，而我们永远不知道。
That leads us to, we can't know much.
这导致我们知道的不多。
Do you know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
Our resolution is so low on everything.
我们在所有事情上的决心都很低。
We're grasping at straws.
我们正在抓住救命稻草。
We have no idea.
我们不知道。
We have no idea.
我们不知道。
And there's great power in knowing that.
知道这一点会产生巨大的力量。
Because if you think you know what's going on, chances are you're being deceived.
因为如果您认为自己知道发生了什么，那么您很可能被欺骗了。
Not because somebody's deceiving you, but because they're telling you what they see and they don't know.
不是因为有人在欺骗你，而是因为他们告诉你他们所看到但他们不知道的事情。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
It's all made up.
一切都是编造出来的。
Everything we know is made up.
我们所知道的一切都是编造的。
Maybe it's true.
也许这是真的。
This brings us to pro wrestling.
这让我们想到了职业摔跤。
It's the reason that pro wrestling is closer to reality than anything else we can watch or any other content.
这就是职业摔跤比我们可以观看的任何其他内容或任何其他内容更接近现实的原因。
It's we know it's made up, we know that it's a performance, it's storytelling, and that's how everything is, except we think wrestling's fake and the world is real.
我们知道它是编造的，我们知道这是一场表演，它是在讲故事，一切都是如此，只是我们认为摔跤是假的，而世界是真实的。
Wrestling's real and the world's fake.
摔跤是真实的，世界是虚假的。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
I do want to ask you about wrestling.
我确实想问你关于摔跤的事。
So I have questions specifically about wrestling, but it's really about process.
所以我有一些关于摔跤的问题，但这实际上是关于过程的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
What is the deal with your relationship to wrestling?
你和摔跤有什么关系？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it maintains that kind of playfulness, anything is possible.
我认为它保持了那种俏皮感，一切皆有可能。
We expect the unexpected all the time in wrestling, and it's a way to have a kind of a feeling of the energy of a sport with no competition.
在摔跤比赛中，我们总是期待着意想不到的事情，这是一种感受没有竞争的运动的能量的方式。
Everyone is working together to put on the best show they can.
每个人都在共同努力，呈现出最好的表演。
So it's more like a ballet than it is like a sporting event.
所以它更像是一场芭蕾舞，而不是一场体育赛事。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
I actually think the way you describe wrestling as it's the energy of the sport.
事实上，我认为你描述摔跤的方式是这项运动的能量。
It's not the whether or not it's this move or that move or who wins or who loses.
问题不在于是这一步还是那步，谁胜谁负。
It's the energy And I'm guessing it's the energy that it creates in you-
这就是能量 我猜这就是它在你体内创造的能量-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes
是的
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
...
...
as an observer.
作为观察者。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
It's the energy it creates in me and the reality that it's honest in what it is, in a world where seemingly nothing is honest at what it is.
这是它在我身上创造的能量，也是它在一个似乎没有什么是诚实的世界里诚实的现实。
In some ways, it's comforting, and there's still this mystery of, "Wow, I wonder if that's true or not," because we never really know.
在某些方面，这令人欣慰，而且仍然存在这样的神秘感，“哇，我不知道这是真的还是假的”，因为我们永远不知道。
Someone gets hurt.
有人受伤。
Did they really break their back or are they just going on vacation?
他们真的摔断了背还是只是去度假？
We don't know.
我们不知道。
We'll never know.
我们永远不会知道。
It's fascinating.
这很有趣。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
When you wake up in the morning, are your thoughts immediately structured, or do you enjoy the kind of clearing of the clouds?
当你早上醒来时，你的思绪是立即结构化，还是享受那种拨云见日的感觉？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a slow process for me to wake up, and I like that.
对我来说，醒来是一个缓慢的过程，我喜欢这样。
I like not engaging too much, too soon.
我喜欢不要参与太多、太快。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Does it become more structured as the day goes on?
随着时间的推移，它会变得更加结构化吗？
Does your thinking become more structured around projects and plans?
您的思维是否围绕项目和计划变得更加结构化？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I try to deal with things that need dealing with after that and in preparation for going to work.
我会尝试处理之后需要处理的事情，并为上班做准备。
And then when I go to work, it's more like this free thing where I'm, again, hoping something good comes, welcoming something good, paying attention, and maybe trying to will it to happen, but knowing I don't have the ability to make it happen.
然后当我去工作时，它更像是这种免费的事情，我再次希望有好事发生，欢迎好事，关注，也许试图让它发生，但知道我没有能力让它发生。
I can just be present for it and be ready if it does arrive.
我可以在场，并在它到达时做好准备。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Obviously, deadlines are relevant.
显然，截止日期是相关的。
Time of day, right?
一天中的某个时间，对吧？
There's only so many hours in the day where one can stay in the groove or in this readiness to receive.
一天中只有那么几个小时，人们可以保持最佳状态或做好接受的准备。
Have you ever found yourself in that mode where you're kind of grinding like, "Ah," like, "Here we are." Like, "Okay, I'm not coming home for dinner tonight.
你是否曾经发现自己处于这样一种模式，你会觉得“啊”，“我们到了”。就像，“好吧，我今晚不回家吃晚饭了。
It's the next-- We're going to push."
接下来是——我们要努力。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
We're like the put on the coffee pot kind of thing.
我们就像放在咖啡壶上一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A lot.
很多。
Over the course of my life, a lot.
在我的一生中，有很多。
Not as much now.
现在没那么多了。
And one of the things that I discovered through working on the book was we're not required to treat the different phases of work in the same way.
我在写这本书的过程中发现的一件事是，我们不需要以相同的方式对待不同阶段的工作。
Whereas before, I did.
而以前，我做到了。
Before, everything was in this state of play.
之前，一切都是这样的状态。
Everything had a wide-open time schedule.
一切都有一个广泛的时间表。
It happens when it happens.
当它发生时它就会发生。
If it takes two years or three years, it doesn't matter.
如果需要两年或三年，那也没关系。
It's not about that.
不是这个问题。
It's only about this thing has to be great.
只是这件事必须很棒。
And what I came to realize in working on the book is that there are different phases, and the first phase is this seed-collecting phase, which is kind of an ongoing part of life in general.
我在写这本书的过程中意识到，有不同的阶段，第一个阶段是种子收集阶段，这是一般生活中持续的一部分。
I do that always, whether I'm working on something or not.
无论我是否在做某事，我总是这样做。
I'm always in the seed-collecting phase, and there's no deadline or anything that interests me that I think I want to learn more about or has potential to be something-- Anything.
我总是处于收集种子的阶段，没有截止日期，也没有任何我感兴趣的东西，我认为我想更多地了解或有潜力成为某事——任何事。
I hear something, think, "Hmm, I'd like to read more about that," or, "I wonder if there's a movie about that.
我听到一些东西，想，“嗯，我想读更多关于这个的内容，”或者，“我想知道是否有一部电影是关于这个的。
Is there a movie about that?
有关于这个的电影吗？
If not, maybe there's a movie to be made." Again, this is something I want in my life.
如果没有的话，也许有一部电影要拍。”再说一遍，这是我一生中想要的东西。
Let's see if it exists.
让我们看看它是否存在。
If it doesn't exist, then maybe that's something interesting to pursue.
如果它不存在，那么也许这是值得追求的有趣的事情。
But I know that the desire is there because I have it.
但我知道这个愿望是存在的，因为我有它。
So in the seed phase, there's no deadlines.
所以在种子阶段，没有最后期限。
It's just a wide-open part.
这只是一个完全开放的部分。
And then the next phase is called the experimentation phase, where you start experimenting to see what the seeds want to do.
然后下一阶段称为实验阶段，您开始实验看看种子想要做什么。
You're involved, but you're not really dictating the action.
你参与其中，但你并没有真正决定行动。
You're setting the stage for something to happen, but it's not about you yet.
你正在为某件事的发生做好准备，但这还不是关于你的。
It'd be like the equivalent of you'd plant the seed, you would water it, you would make sure it was in the sun, and you'd wait.
这就像你种下了种子，你会浇水，你会确保它在阳光下，然后你会等待。
So you're involved, but you can't make it grow.
所以你参与了，但你无法让它成长。
And then when it sprouts and it grows, or if it turns into a plant, then you can look at the plant.
然后当它发芽、生长时，或者如果它变成一株植物时，你就可以看这株植物了。
It's like, "Okay, what's the potential of this plant?" And then that third phase is the crafting phase, where it's like, "Okay, I have this plant.
就像，“好吧，这种植物有什么潜力？”然后第三阶段是制作阶段，就像，“好吧，我有这个植物。
Maybe I'm going to trim it, or maybe I'm going to combine it with these other plants to make something else with it." Now it's like material that you have.
也许我要修剪它，或者也许我要把它与其他植物结合起来制作其他东西。”现在它就像你拥有的材料一样。
And then finally is the completion or finishing phase, which is the final edit, getting to the version of it that's the one that you can share with the world if that's something you're going to do.
最后是完成或收尾阶段，这是最后的编辑，到达可以与世界分享的版本（如果这是您要做的事情）。
And I've come to realize that by the time you're going into the completion phase, you can have a deadline, and it won't hurt the project.
我逐渐意识到，当你进入完成阶段时，你可以有一个最后期限，而且这不会损害项目。
In fact, it might help the project, and I didn't know that before.
事实上，它可能会对项目有所帮助，而我之前并不知道这一点。
So I've worked on projects that have gone longer than they necessarily needed to and maybe not in the best interest of the project because I didn't know that.
因此，我所从事的项目的时间超出了所需的时间，而且可能不符合项目的最佳利益，因为我不知道这一点。
I didn't understand the timing of that.
我不明白这个时间点。
Because I am so aware of the necessity in the experimental phase to not have a deadline, that I assumed that held through the whole project.
因为我非常清楚在实验阶段没有最后期限的必要性，所以我认为整个项目都是如此。
It's not a clear phase one finishes, and then you start phase two, phase two finishes, and then you start phase three.
这并不是一个明确的第一阶段结束，然后开始第二阶段，第二阶段结束，然后开始第三阶段。
You move back and forth between them.
你在它们之间来回移动。
I'm collecting seeds all the time.
我一直在收集种子。
I'm always in phase one.
我总是处于第一阶段。
And then probably to some degree, there's always some version of experimentation going on.
然后可能在某种程度上，总会有某种版本的实验在进行。
Maybe not now, but if something's on a list of things I want to look at, hopefully, I'll get to the list and give them some experimentation and see what they can turn into.
也许现在还不行，但如果我想看的东西清单上有什么东西，希望我会进入清单并给他们一些实验，看看它们能变成什么。
And then if they do turn into something, then they get to the crafting phase, where it's more, "Okay, now I have this thing.
然后，如果它们确实变成了某种东西，那么它们就会进入制作阶段，更多的是，“好吧，现在我有了这个东西。
What do I know about this kind of thing?
我对这种事情了解多少？
What can I match this with?
我可以用什么来搭配这个呢？
What can I use this for?
我可以用这个做什么？
How can I be involved as a craftsman?" By the end of the crafting phase or deep into the crafting phase, you can start seeing the end.
作为一个工匠，我怎么能参与其中呢？”在制作阶段结束或深入制作阶段时，您可以开始看到结局。
You can start seeing an end, and then you can even dictate an end.
你可以开始看到结局，然后你甚至可以决定一个结局。
But I recommend if you do, just dictate it for you, not for anyone else, because if something comes up where you learn, if you Set a deadline, a public deadline, and then a new discovery happens along the way and you realize, "Oh, this could actually be much better than I thought, but I need more time," it's harder to do that if you've set the deadline.
但我建议，如果你这样做，只是为你口述，而不是为其他任何人，因为如果你学习的地方出现了一些事情，如果你设定了最后期限，一个公开的最后期限，然后一路上发生了新的发现，你意识到，“哦，这实际上可能比我想象的要好得多，但我需要更多时间，”如果你设定了最后期限，那就更难做到。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。
I'm excited to share that AG1 has just launched their newest formulation, AG1 Pro.
我很高兴与大家分享，AG1 刚刚推出了他们的最新配方 AG1 Pro。
AG1 Pro takes the clinically backed AG1 formula, which is a blend of vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and adaptogens, and adds three important new ingredients: creatine monohydrate, calcium HMB, and zinc carnosine.
AG1 Pro 采用经过临床支持的 AG1 配方，该配方是维生素、矿物质、益生菌和适应原的混合物，并添加了三种重要的新成分：一水肌酸、HMB 钙和肌肽锌。
Each serving has five grams of creatine monohydrate to support muscle strength and performance, as well as brain health, calcium HMB to support muscle recovery and reduce muscle breakdown, and zinc carnosine to support and improve the lining of your gut.
每份含有 5 克一水肌酸，可支持肌肉力量和性能，以及大脑健康；HMB 钙可支持肌肉恢复并减少肌肉分解；肌肽锌可支持和改善肠道内壁。
All three of these ingredients have compelling science to support them, and therefore, I love seeing them added to the existing AG1 formula.
所有这三种成分都有令人信服的科学支持，因此，我喜欢看到它们添加到现有的 AG1 配方中。
As most of you know, I've been taking AG1 every day for nearly 14 years now.
正如你们大多数人所知，我每天服用 AG1 已有近 14 年了。
I started taking it long before I even knew what a podcast was.
早在我知道什么是播客之前我就开始服用它了。
It's a great product, and it's now made even better with the new AG1 Pro formula.
这是一款很棒的产品，现在新的 AG1 Pro 配方让它变得更好。
If you would like to try AG1 Pro, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1 Pro，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 获取特别优惠。
AG1 is giving away a free bottle of omega-3 coenzyme Q10 with your first subscription.
AG1 首次订阅即可免费赠送一瓶 omega-3 辅酶 Q10。
Again, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get a free bottle of omega-3 coenzyme Q10 with your first AG1 subscription.
同样，请访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman，首次订阅 AG1 即可免费获得一瓶 omega-3 辅酶 Q10。
The chapter on self-doubt was really interesting to me.
关于自我怀疑的章节对我来说真的很有趣。
I'll read the first sentence of it, which is that, "Self-doubt lives in all of us."
我会读它的第一句话，那就是“自我怀疑存在于我们所有人之中”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
"And while we may wish it was gone, it is there to serve us." And it goes on to describe how to dance with self-doubt.
“虽然我们可能希望它消失，但它是为我们服务的。”它还描述了如何带着自我怀疑跳舞。
As one gets better at their craft, you could imagine self-doubt goes down.
当一个人的手艺变得更好时，你可以想象自我怀疑会减少。
I think that's the perception of a lot of people, right?
我想这是很多人的看法吧？
You get better at what you're doing, self-confidence goes up, self-doubt goes down.
你在所做的事情上会变得更好，自信会增强，自我怀疑会下降。
But I think you and I both know a number of people who are successful enough to know that oftentimes there's a mirror image to that where people feel pressure because they did it once, now they got to do it again.
但我想你和我都认识一些足够成功的人，他们知道，人们常常会感到压力，因为他们曾经做过一次，现在他们必须再做一次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Self-doubt, it's a check on yourself.
自我怀疑，是对自己的检验。
It can either be really helpful or it can undermine you.
它可能对你很有帮助，也可能会损害你。
So it's something we all have, and if we let it undermine us, then we don't make anything, and that's not good.
所以这是我们所有人都拥有的东西，如果我们让它削弱我们，那么我们就什么也做不了，这不好。
But when used as a balancing tool in our lives, it serves a great function.
但当它在我们的生活中用作平衡工具时，它就会发挥很大的作用。
I think the phrase is in the book, you can doubt your way to a great work, to a masterpiece.
我认为书中有一句话，你可以怀疑自己通往伟大作品、杰作的道路。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Have you ever encountered music that really works well live but just does not work in a recording?
您是否遇到过现场演奏效果很好但录音效果却不佳的音乐？
You don't have to name names.
你不必指名道姓。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I don't think so.
是的，我不这么认为。
I feel like maybe there are some artists who are great live who've never captured it well on record.
我觉得也许有些艺术家的现场表演很棒，但从未将其记录下来。
The Grateful Dead's a good example of a band where I feel like their albums are not their strong point, but if you hear live recordings, they're really interesting and really different from each other.
Grateful Dead 乐队是一个很好的例子，我觉得他们的专辑不是他们的强项，但如果你听现场录音，他们真的很有趣，而且彼此之间真的很不同。
And that's kind of part of what makes the Grateful Dead interesting is their unpredictability.
感恩而死乐队之所以有趣，部分原因在于他们的不可预测性。
They're looking for something.
他们正在寻找一些东西。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And sometimes they find it.
有时他们会找到它。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if you're there when they find it, it feels exciting.
如果当他们找到它时你也在场，那感觉会很令人兴奋。
It's not just following a script.
这不仅仅是遵循脚本。
It's like something is really happening.
就好像真的有什么事情正在发生一样。
It's a real moment.
这是一个真实的时刻。
Something that I aim for in the studio is to create real moments that when you hear them, they don't necessarily sound perfect.
我在录音室的目标是创造真实的时刻，当你听到它们时，它们听起来不一定是完美的。
They sound like something that really happened, and in that moment, something happened, and it's a special moment.
它们听起来像是真实发生过的事情，在那一刻，发生了一些事情，这是一个特殊的时刻。
It's how jazz works as well.
爵士乐也是如此。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
The way you describe experiences going by in time or things emerging in time and the creative process being a way of capturing those moments was beautifully captured in the analogy you gave about a kind of a conveyor belt going by.
你描述随时间流逝的经历或随时间出现的事物的方式，以及捕捉这些时刻的创作过程，在你对传送带的类比中完美地捕捉到了。
I'll just read it.
我就读一下。
"To be beware of the assumption that the way you work is the best way simply because it's the way you've done it before." Maybe you could elaborate on this a little bit.
“要小心，不要仅仅因为你以前这样做过，就认为你的工作方式就是最好的方式。”也许你可以详细说明一下。
We want to have mechanisms and routines we can trust.
我们希望拥有值得信赖的机制和惯例。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
But this is, I think, an important warning.
但我认为这是一个重要的警告。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
When something works, it's easy to be fooled into believing that's the way to do it or that's the right way.
当某件事有效时，人们很容易被愚弄，相信这就是做这件事的方法或者这是正确的方法。
It's just a way, and it's just a way that happened to work that time.
这只是一种方法，而且只是当时碰巧起作用的一种方法。
This plays into when you get advice from people who have more experience than you.
当您从比您更有经验的人那里获得建议时，这一点就会发挥作用。
The advice that they're giving you is not based on your life or your experience.
他们给您的建议并非基于您的生活或经验。
It's based on their life and their experience that have very different data points than yours.
这是基于他们的生活和经验，他们的数据点与你的非常不同。
So maybe they're giving you good advice, but maybe they're giving you good advice for them and not giving you good advice for you.
所以也许他们给了你好的建议，但也许他们给了你对他们好的建议而不是给了你好的建议。
I think it's hard enough to even figure out what's right for ourselves, and if we do somehow crack the code of what's right for us, be happy we have it and then still know, I wonder if that's the only way.
我认为弄清楚什么对我们来说是正确的已经足够困难了，如果我们确实以某种方式破解了对我们来说正确的代码，请为我们拥有它而感到高兴，然后仍然知道，我想知道这是否是唯一的方法。
Maybe there's an even better way that we're not considering.
也许还有我们没有考虑的更好的方法。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
I forget the exact title of the chapter, but there's a chapter about being on the lookout for clues.
我忘记了这一章的确切标题，但有一章是关于寻找线索的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Do you think there are clues everywhere?
你觉得处处都是线索吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
I think there are clues everywhere.
我认为到处都有线索。
If we pay attention, we'll hear a phrase, it'll trigger a thought.
如果我们注意的话，我们会听到一个短语，它会引发一个想法。
We'll see something unexpected.
我们会看到一些意想不到的事情。
If someone recommends something to you, maybe it's a coincidence.
如果有人向你推荐某样东西，也许只是巧合。
If three people recommend the same thing to you, maybe it's not.
如果三个人向你推荐同样的东西，也许就不是。
I do believe the universe is on the side of creativity, and the universe is supporting things to happen, and they can happen through you, or they could happen through someone else.
我确实相信宇宙站在创造力一边，宇宙正在支持事情的发生，它们可以通过你发生，也可以通过其他人发生。
So if you're paying attention, maybe it'll happen through you.
所以如果你注意的话，也许它会通过你发生。
The belief part of it is a huge part of the conversation About everything.
其中的信念部分是关于一切的对话的重要组成部分。
What we believe has power.
我们相信的东西就有力量。
If we believe we can make something great, the chances of us making something great are better than if we don't believe we can.
如果我们相信我们能够做出伟大的事情，那么我们做出伟大事情的机会就会比我们不相信自己能做到的时候更好。
So, I would say any ability to harness your belief on your behalf is a really healthy thing to do.
所以，我想说，任何能够代表你利用你的信念的能力都是一件非常健康的事情。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
One thing that you make very clear is that while our own abilities may come into question from time to time, you absolutely believe that the elements from which to create are out there.
您非常清楚地表达的一件事是，虽然我们自己的能力可能会不时受到质疑，但您绝对相信创造的元素就在那里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
All the elements are here.
所有的元素都在这里。
Everything is here.
一切都在这里。
We get to pick and choose.
我们可以挑选。
The conveyor belt's going by with little gifts.
传送带带着小礼物经过。
First, we have to notice there's a conveyor belt.
首先，我们必须注意到有一条传送带。
Then we notice the gifts, and then that's the starting point.
然后我们注意到礼物，然后这就是起点。
And then we may even feel empowered enough to grab one of the gifts and open it up and see what's inside.
然后我们甚至可能会感到有足够的力量去拿起其中一份礼物并打开它，看看里面有什么。
And then maybe that's the start of something really beautiful.
然后也许这就是一些真正美丽的事情的开始。
Everything that I make or have made has always been based on something that I see or hear that allows me to see something that I didn't see before.
我所做的或已经做过的一切总是基于我看到或听到的东西，这些东西让我看到了我以前没有看到的东西。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
So I was going to ask you whether or not it's important to be happy in order to create, but certainly a lot of people that were unhappy were still able to create.
所以我想问你快乐对于创造是否重要，但肯定很多不快乐的人仍然能够创造。
But the more I listen to you, it seems that it's really about an ability to pay attention.
但我听得越多，似乎这真的是一种专注的能力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
So if I'm unhappy or if I'm happy may not be as relevant as whether or not I'm able to stay undistracted.
因此，我是否不快乐或者我是否快乐可能并不像我是否能够保持不分心那么重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
I would say being able to stay present in the work is probably the most important part of it, and how you feel is less of an issue unless how you feel gets in the way of you feeling how the work makes you feel.
我想说的是，能够专注于工作可能是其中最重要的部分，而你的感受并不是什么问题，除非你的感受妨碍了你感受工作给你带来的感受。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
I do want to ask you about one other aspect of process, which is meditation.
我确实想问你关于过程的另一方面，那就是冥想。
How would you define meditation?
你如何定义冥想？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, there are different types of meditation.
嗯，冥想有不同类型。
Usually, we either are engaging in a mantra, which would be a version of almost like creating a trance for ourselves, not unlike listening to something when we go to sleep that would distract our conscious mind from participating.
通常，我们要么在念诵咒语，这几乎就像为自己创造一种恍惚状态，就像我们入睡时听一些东西会分散我们的意识思维而无法参与一样。
We would be overriding the talking mind with just a sound that we're generating, or a word, or a phrase, series of phrases.
我们仅仅用我们发出的声音、一个单词、一个短语、一系列短语就可以压倒说话的头脑。
Or it could be focused on the breath, but the purpose of being focused on the breath is to not hear the self-talk that we normally have.
或者它可以专注于呼吸，但专注于呼吸的目的是为了听不到我们通常的自言自语。
It's a single-pointed focus exercise in those that I described.
这是我所描述的单点焦点练习。
The other version is an awareness meditation, where you're closing your eyes and you're being with whatever is.
另一个版本是意识冥想，你闭上眼睛，与任何存在在一起。
There's no story, there's no this means this, none of those things.
没有故事，没有这个意思，没有那些东西。
Just like an inventory almost of everything that comes up when it comes up, and you do that for a period of time.
就像几乎所有出现的东西的清单一样，你会这样做一段时间。
But in all of those cases, in the example of doing the awareness meditation or doing a mantra meditation or focusing on the breath, in none of them am I thinking, and in none of them am I concentrating on-- I'm being aware of sense perceptions in the awareness one.
但在所有这些情况下，在进行觉知冥想或进行咒语冥想或专注于呼吸的例子中，我没有在思考，也没有在它们中集中注意力——我在觉知中觉察到感官知觉。
Or in the other meditations, I'm doing a practice so that I'm not aware of thinking about anything else.
或者在其他冥想中，我正在进行练习，这样我就不会意识到在想其他事情。
And there's also something called the Surgical Series from The Monroe Institute, which I used when I had a surgery.
还有门罗研究所的手术系列，我在做手术时使用过。
You listen to this recording, and it both allows your body to heal much faster and removes some of the trauma that goes on when getting cut open.
你听了这段录音，它既可以让你的身体更快地愈合，又可以消除一些被切开时所造成的创伤。
It's traumatic.
这很痛苦。
But just through listening to certain things, you can have a really powerful effect, heal much faster.
但仅仅通过聆听某些东西，你就可以产生非常强大的效果，治愈得更快。
I remember I was about to be put under for a surgery, and my eyes were closed, and I wasn't communicating with anyone there because I was going inside.
我记得我即将接受手术，我的眼睛是闭着的，我没有与那里的任何人交流，因为我要进去。
And my wife was with me, and they came in, and they said, "Oh, so they already gave Rick the sedative because he's ready to wheel in." She's like, "You can give him anything." He's like, "But look at his numbers." Like, "Yeah."
我的妻子和我在一起，他们进来了，他们说：“哦，所以他们已经给里克注射了镇静剂，因为他已经准备好推车了。”她说：“你可以给他任何东西。”他说，“但是看看他的数据。”就像，“是的。”
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
I love it.
我喜欢它。
I love that you're so willing to share what you do and your process, and I just want to thank you for being such an incredible portal and also for being an amazing friend.
我喜欢你如此愿意分享你所做的事情和你的过程，我只想感谢你成为一个如此令人难以置信的门户网站，也感谢你成为一个了不起的朋友。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
I love you.
我爱你。
I'm so happy to be here with you, and anytime I get to see you, it's a good day.
我很高兴能和你在一起，无论何时见到你，都是美好的一天。
Rick Rubin:
里克·鲁宾：
Likewise.
同样。
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
"I don't think I can be your friend," Isabella said.
“我想我不能成为你的朋友，”伊莎贝拉说。
Rebecca's stomach flipped.
丽贝卡的胃翻腾起来。
This is the love story of real Hinge couple Isabella and Rebecca, written and read by me, Tembi Denton-Hurst.
这是真实的铰链夫妇伊莎贝拉和丽贝卡的爱情故事，由我 Tembi Denton-Hurst 撰写和阅读。
Listen to the free audiobook now.
立即收听免费有声读物。