Dr. Wendy Suzuki: Boost Attention & Memory with Science-Based Tools
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
Today, my guest is Dr. Wendy Suzuki.
今天，我的嘉宾是温迪·铃木博士。
Dr. Suzuki is a professor of neuroscience and psychology at New York University and one of the leading researchers in the area of learning and memory.
铃木博士是纽约大学神经科学和心理学教授，也是学习和记忆领域的领先研究人员之一。
Her laboratory has contributed fundamental, textbook understanding of how brain areas such as the hippocampus, which you will learn about today, how the hippocampus and related brain circuits allow us to take certain experiences and commit them to memory so that we can use that information in the future.
她的实验室对海马体等大脑区域如何让我们获得某些经验并将其记录下来以便我们将来可以使用这些信息做出了基本的、教科书般的理解，您今天将了解这一点。
Dr. Suzuki is also an expert public educator in the realm of science.
铃木博士也是科学领域的一位公共教育专家。
A few years back, she had a TED talk that essentially went viral — if you haven't seen it already, you should absolutely check it out — in which she describes her experience using exercise as a way to enhance learning and memory.
几年前，她在 TED 上做了一次演讲，该演讲基本上火了——如果你还没有看过，你绝对应该看看——她在演讲中描述了她使用锻炼来增强学习和记忆的方法的经历。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And on the basis of that personal experience, she reshaped her laboratory to explore how things like meditation, exercise, and other things that we can do with our physiology and our psychology can allow us to learn faster, to commit things to memory longer, and indeed to reshape our cognitive performance in a variety of settings.
根据个人经验，她重塑了自己的实验室，探索冥想、锻炼以及其他我们可以利用生理学和心理学做的事情如何让我们学得更快、记忆更久，甚至重塑我们在各种环境下的认知表现。
As such, I am delighted to announce that Dr. Suzuki is now not only running a laboratory at New York University, but she's the incoming Dean of Arts and Science at New York University.
因此，我很高兴地宣布，铃木博士现在不仅在纽约大学运营一个实验室，而且是即将上任的纽约大学文理学院院长。
And of course, she was selected for that role for her many talents.
当然，她因其众多才华而被选为该角色。
But one of the important aspects of her program, she tells me, is going to be to incorporate the incredible power of exercise, meditation, and other behavioral practices for enhancing learning, for improving stress management, and other things to optimize student performance.
但她告诉我，她的计划的重要方面之一将是将锻炼、冥想和其他行为实践的不可思议的力量结合起来，以增强学习、改善压力管理和其他优化学生表现的事情。
Today, you are going to get access to much of that information so that you can apply those tools in your daily life as well.
今天，您将获得大部分信息，以便您也可以在日常生活中应用这些工具。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Dr. Suzuki is also an author of several important books.
铃木博士还是多本重要书籍的作者。
The most recent one is entitled "Good Anxiety: Harnessing the Power of the Most Misunderstood Emotion," and a previous book entitled "Healthy Brain, Happy Life: A Personal Program to Activate Your Brain and Do Everything Better." And while that is admittedly a very pop science-type title, I will remind you that she is one of the preeminent memory researchers in the world and has been for quite a while.
最近的一本题为“良好的焦虑：利用最被误解的情绪的力量”，之前的一本书题为“健康大脑，快乐生活：激活大脑并做得更好的个人计划”。虽然这无疑是一个非常流行的科学类型的标题，但我要提醒你，她是世界上最杰出的记忆研究人员之一，而且已经存在很长一段时间了。
So the information that you'll glean from those books is both rich in depth and breadth and is highly applicable.
因此，您将从这些书中收集到的信息既有深度又有广度，并且非常适用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
By the end of today's discussion, you will have learned from Dr. Suzuki a large amount of knowledge about how memories are formed, how they are lost, and you will have a much larger kit of tools to apply for your efforts to learn better, to remember better, and to apply that information in the ways that best serve you.
在今天的讨论结束时，你将从铃木博士那里学到大量关于记忆如何形成、如何丢失的知识，并且你将拥有更多的工具来帮助你更好地学习、更好地记住，并以最适合你的方式应用这些信息。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。
And now for my discussion with Dr. Wendy Suzuki.
现在我与 Wendy Suzuki 博士进行讨论。
Wendy, great to see you again and to have you here.
温迪，很高兴再次见到你并邀请你来到这里。
It's been a little while.
已经有一段时间了。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
It's been a while.
已经有一段时间了。
So great to be here, Andrew.
很高兴来到这里，安德鲁。
Thank you so much for having me.
非常感谢你邀请我。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, delighted.
是的，很高兴。
I'd like to start off by talking about memory generally, and then I'd love to chat about your incredible work discovering how exercise and memory interface and what people can do to improve their memory and brain function generally.
我想首先谈谈一般性的记忆，然后我很想谈谈您令人难以置信的工作，发现锻炼和记忆如何相互作用，以及人们可以做什么来改善他们的记忆和大脑功能。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But for those that are not familiar, maybe you could just step us through the basic elements of memory — a few brain structures, perhaps.
但对于那些不熟悉的人来说，也许你可以带我们了解记忆的基本要素——也许是一些大脑结构。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What happens when ...
当...时会发生什么
for instance, this mug of tea is pretty unremarkable, but the fact that now I've talked about it, I don't know that I'll ever forget about it.
比如说这杯茶，虽然不起眼，但现在谈起来，不知道以后会不会忘记。
Maybe I will, maybe I won't.
也许我会，也许我不会。
So what happens when I look at this mug and decide that it's something special for whatever reason?
那么，当我看到这个杯子并出于某种原因认为它很特别时，会发生什么呢？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I like to say there are four things that make things memorable.
嗯，我想说有四件事让人难忘。
Number one is novelty.
第一是新颖性。
If it's something new, the very first thing, the very first time we've seen something or experienced something, our brains are drawn to that.
如果它是新事物，那么当我们第一次看到某件事或经历某件事时，我们的大脑就会被它吸引。
Our attentional systems draw us to that.
我们的注意力系统吸引我们这样做。
And when you are paying attention to something, that's part of what makes things memorable.
当你关注某件事时，这就是让事情令人难忘的一部分。
Second is repetition.
其次是重复。
If you see that cup of tea every single day, and every single time you do an interview, you talk about your cup of tea, you're going to remember it.
如果你每天都能看到那杯茶，并且每次接受采访时都谈论你的那杯茶，你就会记住它。
That's just how our brains work, repetition works.
这就是我们大脑的工作方式，重复的工作原理。
Third is association.
三是关联。
So if you meet somebody new that knows lots of people that you know — so you and I share many, many, many, many people that we both know — it's easier to remember you, especially if you were somebody new that I hadn't met before.
因此，如果你遇到一个新认识的人，他认识很多你认识的人——所以你和我有很多、很多、很多、很多我们都认识的人——你会更容易记住你，特别是如果你是我以前从未见过的新人。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
We have met before.
我们以前见过面。
So association.
所以关联。
And then the fourth one is emotional resonance.
第四个是情感共鸣。
So we remember the happiest and the saddest moments of our lives, and that also includes funny, surprising things.
因此，我们会记住生命中最快乐和最悲伤的时刻，其中也包括有趣、令人惊讶的事情。
That is the interaction between two key brain structures: the amygdala, which is important for processing lots of emotional, particularly threatening kinds of situations, but those threatening, surprising kinds of situations, the amygdala takes that information and makes another key structure called the hippocampus work better to put new long-term memories in your brain.
这是两个关键的大脑结构之间的相互作用：杏仁核，对于处理许多情绪，特别是威胁性的情况非常重要，但在那些威胁性的、令人惊讶的情况下，杏仁核会获取这些信息，并使另一个称为海马体的关键结构更好地工作，将新的长期记忆放入你的大脑中。
So that, in fact, is the key structure for long-term memory, this structure called the hippocampus.
事实上，这就是长期记忆的关键结构，这个结构称为海马体。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Fantastic.
太棒了。
So novelty, repetition, association, and emotional resonance.
所以新奇、重复、联想和情感共鸣。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You could tell us a bit more about the hippocampus?
您能告诉我们更多关于海马体的信息吗？
I think, at least for my generation ...
我想，至少对于我们这一代人来说……
Well, I'm a neuroscientist, but for most people in my generation, I think they first heard about the hippocampus from the movie "Memento."
嗯，我是一名神经科学家，但对于我们这一代的大多数人来说，我想他们第一次听说海马体是从电影《记忆碎片》中。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Where the guy says, "Hippocampus."
那个人说：“海马。”
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if, for those of you that haven't seen that movie, it's a bizarrely constructed movie, but an interesting one nonetheless, about memory.
如果，对于那些没有看过那部电影的人来说，这是一部结构奇怪的电影，但仍然是一部关于记忆的有趣的电影。
But even as a neuroscientist, sometimes I'm perplexed at how the hippocampus works.
但即使作为一名神经科学家，有时我也对海马体的工作原理感到困惑。
Maybe you could, if you would step us through again, what this structure is, what it looks like, maybe a few of its subregions, because unlike vision, the topic that I've worked most of my career on where we know, okay, the eye does this part and the thalamus does this part, and the cortex does that part.
也许你可以，如果你能再次引导我们，这个结构是什么，它看起来像什么，也许是它的一些子区域，因为与视觉不同，我职业生涯的大部分时间都在研究这个话题，我们知道，好吧，眼睛负责这部分，丘脑负责这部分，皮层负责那部分。
I've always been a little perplexed about the hippocampus, frankly.
坦率地说，我一直对海马体有点困惑。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I've read the textbooks and I've heard the lectures, but I'd love to get the update.
我读过教科书，也听过讲座，但我很想了解最新情况。
What are the general themes of the hippocampus as a structure and its function?
海马体的结构及其功能的一般主题是什么？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What do you think everyone, including neuroscientists, should know about the hippocampus?
您认为每个人，包括神经科学家，都应该了解海马体的哪些知识？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
So let's start with the basics.
那么让我们从基础开始吧。
The word hippocampus means seahorse.
海马这个词的意思是海马。
The structure is shaped like a kind of curly-Q seahorse, that is accurate.
结构形状像一种卷曲的Q海马，非常准确。
Everybody, including neuroscientists, should know it's a beautiful structure.
每个人，包括神经科学家，都应该知道这是一个美丽的结构。
It is visually anatomically beautiful, with these kind of intertwining, twirly subregions within it.
它在视觉上具有美丽的解剖学特征，其中有这些相互交织、扭曲的子区域。
And I think that's one of the reasons why early anatomists, who were the very first neuroscientists, got attracted to it because it's this interesting kind of twirly structure deep in the heart of the brain.
我认为这就是早期解剖学家（最早的神经科学家）被它吸引的原因之一，因为它是大脑深处这种有趣的螺旋结构。
So that's anatomically.
所以从解剖学上来说是这样的。
Functionally, what does it do?
从功能上来说，它有什么作用？
Well, it's easiest to understand what it does when you look at what happens when you don't have a hippocampus anymore.
好吧，当你看看当你不再有海马体时会发生什么时，最容易理解它的作用。
What if by some disease or you have your hippocampus removed by accident, what happens?
如果由于某种疾病或者你的海马体被意外切除，会发生什么？
Well, we know this from the most famous neurological patient of all time.
好吧，我们从有史以来最著名的神经病患者那里知道了这一点。
His initials were H.M.
他名字的首字母是 H.M.
So all psychology neuroscience students know him.
所以所有心理学神经科学的学生都认识他。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
He was operated in 1954, and the paper was published in 1957.
他于1954年接受手术，论文于1957年发表。
They removed both his hippocampi because he had very terrible epilepsy, and they knew that the hippocampus was the genesis of epilepsy, and this was experimental.
他们切除了他的两个海马体，因为他患有非常严重的癫痫症，而且他们知道海马体是癫痫症的起源，而这是实验性的。
His epilepsy was so bad that they decided not just to remove one hippocampus, but both.
他的癫痫症非常严重，以至于他们决定不仅切除一个海马体，而且切除两个海马体。
And what happened was immediate loss of all ability to form new memories for facts and events.
所发生的事情是立即丧失对事实和事件形成新记忆的所有能力。
Think about that for a second.
想一想。
All facts or events, you're not able to remember.
所有的事实或事件，你都无法记住。
I can't remember this interaction between us.
我不记得我们之间的互动了。
I can't remember any of the facts that we were just chatting about in our neuroscience lives.
我不记得我们刚刚在神经科学生活中谈论的任何事实。
None of that can move into our long-term memory.
这些都无法进入我们的长期记忆。
So this hippocampus does something with all of these perceptions that are coming at us every single day, every minute of the day.
因此，海马体会对我们每一天、每一分钟的所有这些感知做出一些反应。
And not for all of them, but for some of them that have these features that we just talked about.
并不是针对所有这些，而是针对其中一些具有我们刚才谈到的这些功能的。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Maybe they're novel, maybe they have associations, maybe they're emotionally relevant, maybe they've been repeated.
也许它们很新颖，也许它们有关联，也许它们在情感上相关，也许它们被重复了。
Some of those things in the realm of facts or events get encoded in our long-term memory, and that's the textbook of why the hippocampus is so important.
一些事实或事件领域的事情被编码在我们的长期记忆中，这就是为什么海马体如此重要的教科书。
I like to always add, and I mean this is why I studied it for so many years, the hippocampus and what it does really defines our own personal histories.
我喜欢总是补充一点，我的意思是，这就是我研究它这么多年的原因，海马体及其所做的事情真正定义了我们自己的个人历史。
It means it defines who we are.
这意味着它定义了我们是谁。
Because if we can't remember what we've done, the information we've learned and the events of our lives, it changes us.
因为如果我们不记得我们做过什么、我们学到的信息和我们生活中的事件，它就会改变我们。
That's what really defines us.
这才是我们真正的定义。
That's why I wanted to study the hippocampus.
这就是我想研究海马体的原因。
And I think the exciting new ideas about the hippocampus was, is, that hippocampus is important for memory.
我认为关于海马体的令人兴奋的新想法是，海马体对于记忆很重要。
So if you say that, you'll impress all your people at your cocktail party.
因此，如果您这么说，您就会给鸡尾酒会上的所有人留下深刻的印象。
But what people have started to realize, that it's not just memory.
但人们开始意识到，这不仅仅是记忆。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
It's not just putting together associations for what, where, and when of events that happened in our past, but it's putting together information that is in our long-term memory banks in interesting new ways.
它不仅仅是将我们过去发生的事件、地点和时间的关联放在一起，而且以有趣的新方式将我们长期记忆库中的信息放在一起。
I'm talking about imagination.
我说的是想象力。
So without the hippocampus, yes, you can't remember things, but actually you're not able to imagine events or situations that you've never experienced before.
因此，如果没有海马体，是的，你无法记住事情，但实际上你无法想象你以前从未经历过的事件或情况。
So what that says is "the hippocampus is important for memory" is too simple a way to think about it.
因此，“海马体对记忆很重要”这种说法实在是太简单了。
What the hippocampus is important for is what we've already talked about, associating things together at large.
海马体的重要作用就是我们已经讨论过的，将事物整体联系在一起。
Anytime you need to associate something together, either for your past, your present, or your future, you are using your hippocampus.
每当你需要将某些事物联系在一起时，无论是你的过去、你的现在还是你的未来，你都在使用你的海马体。
And it takes on this much more important role in our cognitive lives when we think about it like that.
当我们这样思考时，它在我们的认知生活中扮演着更重要的角色。
That is kind of the new hippocampus that neuroscientists are studying these days.
这就是神经科学家目前正在研究的新海马体。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's fantastic.
太棒了。
So it sounds like it really sets context, but it can do that with elements from the past, the present, or the future.
所以听起来它确实设定了背景，但它可以利用过去、现在或未来的元素来做到这一点。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, for neuroscientists, the phrase is domain, we say the time domain.
嗯，对于神经科学家来说，这个词就是域，我们说时域。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Meaning as opposed to just evaluating things in space.
意义不仅仅是评估空间中的事物。
It sounds like the time domain of hippocampal functioning is incredibly interesting.
听起来海马功能的时域非常有趣。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
It is.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And even the fact that we can have short-term, medium-term, and long-term memories, and we could go down any of these rabbit holes.
甚至我们可以拥有短期、中期和长期记忆，而且我们可以进入任何一个兔子洞。
I'll ask you a true or false, mostly because I just really want to know the answer.
我会问你是真是假，主要是因为我真的很想知道答案。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A few years ago, the theme in various high-profile reviews seemed to be that the hippocampus was involved in encoding, in creating memories, but not in storing memories.
几年前，各种备受瞩目的评论的主题似乎是海马体参与编码、创造记忆，但不参与存储记忆。
And that the memory storage was in the neocortex or the other overlying areas of the brain.
记忆存储在新皮质或大脑的其他覆盖区域。
Is that too general a statement?
这样的说法是否过于笼统？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
That's a tricky statement because I think that ultimately, yes, that long-term memories are stored in the cortex, but those memories are stored in the hippocampus sometimes for a very, very long time.
这是一个棘手的说法，因为我认为最终，是的，长期记忆存储在皮质中，但这些记忆有时会存储在海马体中非常非常长的时间。
So how long is too long, where you say, oh, it's not the hippocampus anymore?
那么多长才算太长，你说，哦，这已经不是海马体了？
If it's four years, does that mean that it's not stored in the hippocampus?
如果是四年，是不是意味着海马体中没有储存？
I think that's a tricky question.
我认为这是一个棘手的问题。
And yes, it was coming up a lot because people were debating it, and some people did think that you shouldn't think about the hippocampus as a storage area.
是的，它出现了很多，因为人们对此进行了争论，有些人确实认为你不应该将海马体视为一个存储区域。
But I think it's a long, long, long-term kind of intermediate storage area.
但我认为这是一个很长很长的中间存储区域。
Maybe not the long-term storage area.
也许不是长期存储区域。
That's why it's hard to answer that question.
这就是为什么很难回答这个问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
As I recall, H.M.
我记得，H.M.
could remember facts from before his surgery.
能够记住手术前的事实。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He couldn't form new memories.
他无法形成新的记忆。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And given that he had no hippocampus, it would at least partially support the idea that some of memories are retained outside the hippocampus.
鉴于他没有海马体，这至少部分支持了一些记忆保留在海马体之外的观点。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
However, he did have part of his posterior hippocampus intact.
然而，他的后海马体的一部分确实完好无损。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh.
哦。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
So that's the tricky thing.
这就是棘手的事情。
I think initially, in fact, Scoville, the neurosurgeon, overestimated the number of millimeters he intended to remove of the hippocampus.
事实上，我认为最初，神经外科医生斯科维尔高估了他打算切除海马体的毫米数。
And then when they did this, the very historic MRI of H.M.
然后当他们这样做时，H.M. 进行了具有历史意义的核磁共振成像。
later in his life, they showed that, in fact, he did have that posterior hippocampus, part of the posterior hippocampus intact.
在他后来的生活中，他们证明，事实上，他确实有后海马体，后海马体的一部分完好无损。
So now it makes it a little bit more complicated to interpret what's going on.
所以现在解释正在发生的事情变得有点复杂了。
Not that it was never uncomplicated.
这并不是说事情从来都不简单。
Any interpretation of a lesion in a patient, as you know, is complicated.
如您所知，对患者病变的任何解释都是复杂的。
But H.M.
但 H.M.
had this mythical role in neuroscience and neurology, and it was complicated because he does have more of the hippocampus intact.
他在神经科学和神经病学中具有神话般的作用，这很复杂，因为他确实有更多完整的海马体。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Got it.
明白了。
I did not know that.
我不知道。
There are some memories that can be formed very quickly.
有些记忆可以很快形成。
So-called one-trial learning.
所谓一次尝试学习。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm just looking at this list again: novelty, repetition, association, and emotional resonance.
我只是再次查看这个列表：新颖性、重复性、关联性和情感共鸣。
It seems like some experiences can bypass the need for multiple repetitions.
似乎有些经历可以绕过多次重复的需要。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And unfortunately, it seems that our nervous system is skewed toward creating one-trial memories for negative events, which has a survival adaptive mechanism.
不幸的是，我们的神经系统似乎倾向于为负面事件创建一次性记忆，这具有一种生存适应机制。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What is the neural connection that allows that to happen?
允许这种情况发生的神经连接是什么？
Is it the amygdala to hippocampus connection?
是杏仁核与海马体的连接吗？
I mean, as you and I know, seems like every brain area ultimately is connected to everything else.
我的意思是，正如你和我所知，似乎每个大脑区域最终都与其他所有区域相连。
It's just a question of through how many nodes.
这只是通过多少个节点的问题。
Just like every city is connected to another city, it's just a question of how many flights and roads do you have to traverse before you get there?
就像每个城市都与另一个城市相连一样，问题只是您需要经过多少航班和道路才能到达那里？
What is it about one-trial learning?
一试学习是什么？
I mean, at a kind of top-contour level, how can we learn certain things so fast and other things are tricky?
我的意思是，在某种顶层轮廓的水平上，我们如何能够如此快地学习某些东西而其他东西却很棘手？
And now every time I look at this white mug, it's queuing up something special that simply by virtue of saying it.
现在，每当我看到这个白色杯子时，它就在排队一些特别的东西，而仅仅是因为说出来了。
So is that one-trial memory?
那么这是一次尝试记忆吗？
But what is it about very emotionally salient events that allow memories to get stamped in?
但是，那些在情感上非常突出的事件是如何让记忆烙印下来的呢？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah, I mean, I think you've already alluded to it, that there is this protective function of our brains that has evolved over the last 2.5 million years that you need to pay attention and remember certain things for your survival.
是的，我的意思是，我想你已经提到过，我们的大脑在过去 250 万年里已经进化出了这种保护功能，你需要注意并记住某些事情才能生存。
So some things that get stamped in, they're memories, but they're fear memories.
所以有些东西被烙印在里面，它们是记忆，但它们是恐惧记忆。
If I get mugged on the subway, or they're terrible things that could happen on the subway as we just learned.
如果我在地铁上被抢劫，或者正如我们刚刚了解到的那样，地铁上可能会发生可怕的事情。
But if something terrible happens, if something very scary happens, you remember that, and that fear and that memory of all those things.
但如果发生了可怕的事情，如果发生了非常可怕的事情，你会记住这一点，以及对所有这些事情的恐惧和记忆。
I have one.
我有一个。
When I lived in Washington, D.C., I went to work at NIH on a Sunday afternoon, and I came back and when I rounded the corner to my door of my apartment, it was crowbarred in.
当我住在华盛顿特区时，周日下午我去美国国立卫生研究院工作，当我回来时，当我绕过公寓的拐角处时，门被撬了。
Somebody had taken a crowbar, opened up my door, and stole all of the nicest things in my apartment, which wasn't that nice because I wasn't making that much money.
有人拿了一根撬棍，打开了我的门，偷走了我公寓里所有最好的东西，这不太好，因为我没有赚那么多钱。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
But ever since then, whenever I rounded that corner, I still had that memory.
但从那时起，每当我绕过那个拐角时，我仍然有那个记忆。
It was terrible because it put me in a terrible state when I was just coming home.
这太可怕了，因为当我刚回家时，它让我处于一种可怕的状态。
And that's a survival mechanism.
这就是一种生存机制。
Do you want to be alert to possible danger?
您想警惕可能发生的危险吗？
Absolutely, yes.
绝对是的。
So part of those one-trial memories, I think, is often taking advantage of this evolutionarily developed system to tamp in things that could be potentially dangerous to you into your memory.
因此，我认为，这些一次性记忆的一部分通常是利用这一进化发展的系统，将可能对你有潜在危险的东西塞进你的记忆中。
So you forever will remember this particular corner or this hallway because that is where something really bad happened to you.
所以你会永远记住这个特定的角落或这个走廊，因为那是你发生过非常糟糕的事情的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It seems like a location.
看起来像是一个位置。
We talk about conditioned place aversion.
我们谈论条件性地方厌恶。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which is just a geek-speak for wanting to avoid the place where something bad happened, or conditioned place preference, wanting to go back to a place where something positive happened.
这只是一个极客的说法，指的是想要避开发生不好的事情的地方，或者条件性地点偏好，想要回到发生了积极的事情的地方。
Or even looking at a photograph of where you had a wonderful time with somebody, and that can evoke all sorts of positive sensations.
或者甚至看一张你和某人度过美好时光的照片，这可以唤起各种积极的感觉。
It seems like at some level, as complex as the brain is, the basic elements of feeling good or feeling lousy are states within the brain and body.
似乎在某种程度上，尽管大脑很复杂，但感觉良好或感觉糟糕的基本要素是大脑和身体内的状态。
And linking those to places seems like it's a pretty straightforward formula.
将这些与位置联系起来似乎是一个非常简单的公式。
Link place to state, link state to place, et cetera as your description just provided.
将地点链接到州、将州链接到地点等，如您刚才提供的描述。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When we learn more complex information, a poem, a concept, or we have to ratchet through a set of ideas, that also involves memory.
当我们学习更复杂的信息、一首诗、一个概念，或者我们必须逐步理解一系列想法时，这也涉及到记忆。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm sure that we'll talk more about this, but is there any way that you are aware of that state, bodily state, can be leveraged to enhance the speed or the quality of memories and memory formation?
我确信我们会更多地讨论这个问题，但是有没有什么方法可以让你意识到这种状态，身体状态，可以用来提高记忆和记忆形成的速度或质量？
Because, so to be clear about it, it seems there's something very important about this fourth, this emotional resonance component, right?
因为，要明确一点，第四个情感共鸣成分似乎有一些非常重要的东西，对吧？
Novelty, the crowbar into the doors, thank goodness sounds like it was novel.
新奇，用撬棍插进门，谢天谢地，听起来很新奇。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Right.
正确的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It wasn't a repeated thing.
这不是重复的事情。
Thank goodness.
谢天谢地。
So repetition is out, and the association is very, very strong.
所以重复已经不再存在，而且关联性非常非常强。
But for people trying to learn information that they're not that excited about, or that repetition is hard, or the novelty is simply that it's painful-
但对于那些试图学习他们不那么兴奋的信息的人来说，或者重复很难，或者新奇只是令人痛苦——
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
I've been there.
我去过那里。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
As have I.
我也一样。
Is there something that we can do to leverage knowledge of how the memory system works naturally to make that a more straightforward process?
我们可以做些什么来利用记忆系统如何自然工作的知识，使这个过程变得更加简单吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
So I immediately turn to the things that I've studied that you talk about so beautifully on your podcast, which are strategies generally to make your brain work better.
所以我立即转向我研究过的东西，你在播客上谈论得如此精彩，这些通常是让你的大脑更好地工作的策略。
I was just reminding myself of your podcast about cold, because I use that every morning.
我只是提醒自己你关于感冒的播客，因为我每天早上都会使用它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, you do cold.
哦，你真冷。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
I do.
我愿意。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just take a moment and just tell us what is your cold exposure protocol?
请花一点时间告诉我们您的冷暴露方案是什么？
Then I'll take you back to what you're saying.
然后我会带你回到你所说的。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
So my cold exposure protocol is at the end of every morning shower that I take, the shower is warm, but I give myself a big blast of cold at the end of that, and it makes me feel so good.
所以，我的冷暴露方案是在每天早上淋浴结束时，淋浴是温暖的，但在结束时我给自己一阵强烈的寒冷，这让我感觉很好。
And because I've been doing it for several years, it's so much less painful.
而且因为我已经这样做了好几年了，所以痛苦少了很多。
Okay, I admit it was really painful at the beginning, but it's much less painful.
好吧，我承认一开始确实很痛苦，但是现在已经不那么痛苦了。
I could handle the cold water, and my pipes give nice, really cold water.
我可以处理冷水，而且我的水管可以提供非常好的冷水。
And I could feel the awakenness kind of come up in me after that.
在那之后我能感觉到我内心的觉醒。
And I miss it, if I forget to do it; sometimes I run back in and give myself that cold blast because it is upping, I think you talked about this on your podcast.
如果我忘了做，我就会怀念它；有时我会跑回来给自己吹冷风，因为天气正在上升，我想你在播客上谈到过这个。
What's happening in the brain?
大脑发生了什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Basically the cold stimulus, that shock, that catching your breath, et cetera is adrenaline from the adrenals, but also from what we understand now, some new neuroimaging.
基本上，冷刺激、电击、屏住呼吸等都是来自肾上腺的肾上腺素，但也来自我们现在所了解的一些新的神经影像学。
There's epinephrine and norepinephrine released from locus coeruleus.
蓝斑释放肾上腺素和去甲肾上腺素。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which again is a brain structure in the back of the brain, kind of sprinklers the rest of the brain with a wake-up chemical, and there's a long arc on dopamine release.
这又是大脑后部的一个大脑结构，向大脑的其他部分喷洒了一种唤醒化学物质，多巴胺的释放有一个很长的弧线。
This paper back in 2000 showed that it's a steady increase up to about 2.5X of circulating dopamine.
2000 年的这篇论文表明，循环多巴胺稳步增加至约 2.5 倍。
So they weren't looking directly in the brain admittedly, but it goes on for four or five hours.
因此，诚然，他们并没有直接观察大脑，但这种情况持续了四五个小时。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Wow.
哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the improved mood and the feeling of alertness is a real thing.
因此，情绪的改善和警觉性的改善是真实存在的。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
So I use that.
所以我用它。
So basically, I use my morning routine.
所以基本上，我使用早上的例行公事。
What is my morning routine?
我早上的例行公事是什么？
I get up, I do a 45-minute tea meditation, so meditating over the brewing and drinking of tea, that I learned from a monk who has an institute in Taiwan where he teaches tea meditation, love it.
我起床后，进行了 45 分钟的茶禅，对泡茶和喝茶进行冥想，这是我从一位和尚那里学到的，他在台湾有一家学院，在那里教授茶禅，我很喜欢。
I've learned all about tea, different kinds of tea.
我了解了所有关于茶的知识，不同种类的茶。
And then I do a 30-minute cardio, cardio-weights workout.
然后我会进行 30 分钟的有氧运动、有氧运动重量训练。
Then I take my shower with the hot-cold contrast.
然后我以冷热对比的方式洗澡。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
And before that, key thing, if I want to learn something and I want to be able to get over the difficulty of repeating things or just push myself to do stuff, sleep.
在此之前，关键的一点是，如果我想学习一些东西，并且我希望能够克服重复事情的困难，或者只是强迫自己去做事情，那就睡觉。
So good sleep.
睡得真好。
I've learned that over the pandemic.
我在疫情期间了解到了这一点。
I did sleep experiments on myself, and I learned that I was sleeping an hour less than I really needed.
我对自己做了睡眠实验，结果发现我的睡眠时间比实际需要的时间少了一个小时。
So I really need seven and a half to eight hours of sleep, and I was getting six and a half.
所以我真的需要七个半到八个小时的睡眠，而我只睡了六个半小时。
And so now I get that seven and a half to eight hours every single night.
所以现在我每晚都有七个半到八个小时的时间。
And guess what?
你猜怎么着？
I come to different difficult tasks and I am more willing to give it a try to try longer, to try harder, and my brain works better.
当我面对不同的困难任务时，我更愿意尝试更长的时间，更努力地尝试，我的大脑会更好地工作。
And so I think probably if you go back to all of your podcasts, you'll learn exactly why each one of those things that I do, which I would bet that you probably do too, is helping my brain.
因此，我想，如果您返回所有播客，您可能会确切地了解为什么我所做的每一件事（我敢打赌您也可能会这样做）正在帮助我的大脑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I guarantee they are.
我保证他们是。
And I'm impressed that you do all these things, although not surprised.
你所做的所有这些事情给我留下了深刻的印象，尽管我并不感到惊讶。
And I should say that the extra hour of sleep is really impressive and extremely beneficial.
我应该说，额外一小时的睡眠确实令人印象深刻且极其有益。
I'm curious, do you get that in the early part of the night by going to bed earlier?
我很好奇，你会因为早点睡觉而在半夜得到这个吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Are you?
你是吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Terrific.
太棒了。
And I should just mention because you're too humble to do it, but I'll say it again that, yes, not only are you a tenured full professor and running a laboratory, you teach undergraduates, you have an important role in public education, multiple books, and you're now Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences at NYU.
我应该提一下，因为你太谦虚了，无法做到这一点，但我要再说一遍，是的，你不仅是一名终身正教授并管理着一个实验室，你还教本科生，你在公共教育中发挥着重要作用，出版了多本著作，而且你现在是纽约大学艺术与科学学院的院长。
So the extra hour of sleep is benefiting you, and as a consequence, benefiting everybody else as well.
因此，额外一小时的睡眠对您有利，因此也对其他人有利。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thanks for sharing with us your protocol.
感谢您与我们分享您的协议。
I took you off the trajectory of what one can do, but I think that people, and I, appreciate knowing what the practical steps are.
我让你偏离了一个人可以做什么的轨道，但我认为人们和我很高兴知道实际步骤是什么。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because knowing the science is important.
因为了解科学很重要。
Mechanism, I do believe, is important for embedding protocols in people's minds and why they might want to do them.
我确实相信，机制对于将协议嵌入人们的头脑以及为什么他们想要这样做非常重要。
But really hearing the mechanics of it is useful.
但真正了解它的机制是很有用的。
It sounds like everything together takes about an hour.
听起来所有事情加在一起大约需要一个小时。
It's not an excessive amount of time, but it probably gives you an outsized positive effect on your day.
这并不是太多的时间，但它可能会给你的一天带来巨大的积极影响。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
I definitely notice it if I'm not able to do it and when I don't.
如果我做不到或做不到，我肯定会注意到这一点。
So I do this seven days a week.
所以我每周 7 天都这样做。
It's also not just five days — seven days a week.
这也不仅仅是五天——一周七天。
And when I can't do it's usually early-morning flights or things like that, and I get over it.
当我无法做到这一点时，通常是在清晨的航班或类似的事情上，我就克服了它。
But it's critical for the working of my brain.
但这对我大脑的运作至关重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love it.
我喜欢它。
And I'll just highlight one thing that you said before we move on, which is that you said sometimes if you get out of the shower before the cold, you'll get back in.
我只想强调一下你在我们继续之前说过的一件事，那就是你说有时如果你在感冒之前洗完澡，你就会再回来。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's, to me, a really beautiful example of conditioned place preference.
对我来说，这是条件性地点偏好的一个非常漂亮的例子。
Now the cold shower has become something that you sort of look forward to.
现在，冷水淋浴已成为您所期待的事情。
I should say that nobody is immune from the adrenaline increase of cold, no matter how cold.
我应该说，没有人能免受寒冷带来的肾上腺素增加的影响，无论多冷。
This is what's interesting about cold.
这就是冷的有趣之处。
It's one of the reasons why it's such an important part of the screening for special operations, sort of SEAL Teams, but other branches of military too, which is that there're very few stimuli that you can give anyone and consistently get an adrenaline-
这就是为什么它是特种部队筛选中如此重要的一部分的原因之一，比如海豹突击队，但也包括其他军事部门，那就是你可以给任何人并持续获得肾上腺素的刺激很少——
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Oh, interesting.
哦，有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
release from that without harming them.
在不伤害他们的情况下摆脱困境。
Heat, eventually, you need to use so much heat that you damage tissue.
热量，最终，你需要使用大量的热量，以致损坏组织。
Or with exercise, you have to use so much exercise, you can damage joints.
或者说运动量太大，运动量太大，会损伤关节。
And it's this very kind of brilliant, I don't know if it was intentional or not, it's sort of unintentional genius that special operations has figured out that.
这真是太聪明了，我不知道这是有意还是无意，特种部队发现了这一点，这是一种无意的天才。
But sending people back into the cold over and over, it never really gets easier.
但一次又一次地让人们再次陷入寒冷之中，事情从来没有真正变得容易过。
But over time, people actually start to crave it, and it provides this reduction in-
但随着时间的推移，人们实际上开始渴望它，它提供了这种减少——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Over time, people actually start to crave it.
随着时间的推移，人们实际上开始渴望它。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it provides this reduction in inflammation, et cetera.
它可以减少炎症等。
PART 1 OF 4 ENDS Wendy Suzuki:
第 1 部分（共 4 部分）结束 Wendy Suzuki：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So anyway, beautiful practice.
无论如何，这是一次美妙的练习。
Thank you.
谢谢。
I want to learn more about your tea meditation later in the episode, but in any event, returning to ways that we can improve memory formation.
我想在本集后面更多地了解你的茶冥想，但无论如何，回到我们可以改善记忆形成的方法。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe, if you would, tell us your story around this.
如果您愿意的话，也许可以告诉我们您的故事。
I know you've told it before.
我知道你以前已经说过了。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A lot of members of the audience, and I, would love to hear how you came to this.
很多观众，包括我，都很想听听你是如何做到这一点的。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because growing up in neuroscience, I knew you as, I would say, one of the three or four, and they're all alongside one another, this isn't a hierarchical statement, three or four top memory researchers in the world.
因为我是在神经科学领域长大的，所以我知道你是三四个人之一，而且他们都在一起，这不是一个等级声明，世界上有三四个顶级记忆研究人员。
Textbook material is Suzuki.
教材材料是铃木。
My textbooks are filled with the word Suzuki, your last name, according to the information on memory and memory formation.
根据记忆和记忆形成的信息，我的教科书上充满了铃木这个词，你的姓氏。
So you were doing that and doing the things that academics do.
所以你正在这样做，做学术界所做的事情。
You're still doing that, but-
你还在这么做，但是——
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And still at a very high level, but then things took a different direction.
仍然处于很高的水平，但后来事情朝着不同的方向发展。
Maybe we could talk about your story and how you came to the place you are at now, because I think it provides a number of tools that people could implement themselves.
也许我们可以谈谈你的故事以及你如何走到现在的位置，因为我认为它提供了许多人们可以自己实施的工具。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
So this story happened as I was working to get tenure at NYU.
这个故事发生在我努力获得纽约大学终身教职时。
As you know, it's a stress-filled process.
如您所知，这是一个充满压力的过程。
They give you six years to show your stuff, and you are judged in front of all your colleagues and either they say, "Okay, you can join the club," or they say, "Sorry." You are humiliated in front of everybody.
他们给你六年的时间来展示你的东西，你在所有同事面前接受评判，他们要么说，“好吧，你可以加入俱乐部”，要么说，“抱歉。”你在所有人面前都受到羞辱。
This is what was going through my-
这就是我所经历的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They actually tell people to leave.
他们实际上告诉人们离开。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you don't get tenure, you're gone.
如果你没有获得终身教职，你就离开了。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
You have to leave.
你必须离开。
You're in an institution.
你在一个机构里。
And so you work really, really hard.
所以你工作得非常非常努力。
So my strategy was, "I'm just going to not do anything but work, and I'm just going to work, and I'm going to just work as hard as I can for the six years." And what happens when you work, and you don't have any sort of life outside of work, and you live in New York where there's all sorts of really good takeout, you gain 25 pounds, which is exactly what I did, and you get really, really stressed, and you start to ask yourself, "How come I'm living in New York City, and I love Broadway and I haven't gone to a Broadway show in two years?
所以我的策略是，“我除了工作什么也不做，我只是去工作，我将在这六年里尽我所能地努力工作。”当你工作时，你在工作之外没有任何生活，你住在纽约，那里有各种非常好的外卖，你体重增加了 25 磅，这正是我所做的，你会感到非常非常有压力，你开始问自己，“为什么我住在纽约市，我喜欢百老汇，而我已经两年没有去看百老汇演出了？
And so I'm 25 pounds overweight." I decided to go on vacation.
所以我超重了 25 磅。”我决定去度假。
I went by myself cause I had no friends.
我一个人去，因为我没有朋友。
I did an adventure river rafting trip in Peru.
我在秘鲁进行了一次冒险河漂流之旅。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
And so I go by myself and meet other interesting people, and I was the weakest person on this whole trip.
所以我一个人去，遇到了其他有趣的人，而我是整个旅程中最弱的人。
They were so much in better shape.
他们的状态好多了。
It was embarrassing.
很尴尬。
They won't say this, they won't admit this to me, but it was true.
他们不会这么说，他们不会向我承认这一点，但这是事实。
I came back and I said, "Okay, I cannot be the weakest person.
我回来后说：“好吧，我不能成为最弱的人。
I'm in my late thirties.
我已经三十多岁了。
I have to do something." So I went to the gym and I said, "Oh my God, I'm 25 pounds overweight.
我必须做点什么。”所以我去了健身房，然后说：“天哪，我超重了 25 磅。
Let's try at least to lose this weight." And so I go to the gym.
让我们至少尝试减掉这个体重。”所以我去健身房。
I notice how much better I feel when I go to just a single class.
我注意到当我只去上一堂课时我感觉好多了。
I remember the very first class I went to was a hip-hop dance class.
我记得我去的第一堂课是嘻哈舞蹈课。
I'm a terrible hip-hop dancer, but I still felt good after that class.
我是一个很糟糕的嘻哈舞者，但上完课后我仍然感觉很好。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Then fast-forward a year and a half, I've lost the 25 pounds.
然后快进一年半，我减掉了 25 磅。
So proud of myself, so much happier.
我为自己感到骄傲，我感到非常快乐。
I'm sitting in my office doing what you and I do a lot, which is writing an NIH grant, which is our lifeblood, and writing, writing, writing, and this thought goes through my mind that had never gone through my mind before during this six years of frantic grant writing when I was trying to get tenure, and that thought was, "Grant writing went well today.
我坐在办公室里，做着你和我经常做的事情，那就是写一份 NIH 基金，这是我们的命脉，写、写、写，这个想法在我的脑海中闪过，这是我在这六年疯狂的基金写作中，当我试图获得终身教职时从未出现过的，这个想法是，“今天基金写作进展顺利。
That felt good." I was like, "I've never had that thought before.
那感觉很好。”我当时想，“我以前从未有过这样的想法。
What's going on here?
这是怎么回事？
This is really weird."
这真的很奇怪。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know that anyone has had that thought before.
我不知道以前是否有人有过这样的想法。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
No, I'm sure people have had that thought.
不，我相信人们都有过这样的想法。
But I thought, "Maybe I'm just having a good day." But when I thought about it, I thought, "It's not just today.
但我想，“也许我只是度过了美好的一天。”但当我思考这个问题时，我想：“这不仅仅是今天。
My grant writing seems to have been getting smoother.
我的资助申请似乎变得越来越顺利。
I'm able to focus longer.
我能够集中注意力更长时间。
The sessions feel better to me." And at that point, the only thing that I changed in my life, it was a huge thing, but I had become a gym rat rather than a workaholic.
这些课程对我来说感觉更好。”在那一点上，我一生中唯一改变的事情是一件大事，但我已经成为一个健身狂，而不是一个工作狂。
That's when my Spidey sense for neuroscientists popped up and I said, "What do we know about the effects of exercise on your brain?" Because if I think about it, what was better about my writing is I could focus longer and deeper, very important, and I could remember those little details that you try and pull together for your million-dollar NIH grant from 30 different articles that you have open on your screen all at the same time.
就在那时，我对神经科学家的蜘蛛侠意识突然出现，我说：“我们对运动对大脑的影响了解多少？”因为如果我仔细想想，我的写作的优点是我可以更长时间、更深入地关注，这非常重要，而且我可以记住那些你试图从屏幕上同时打开的 30 篇不同文章中整理出来的小细节，以获得百万美元的 NIH 资助。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
That's the hippocampal memory.
这就是海马体记忆。
I was studying that.
我正在研究那个。
I was writing the grants on hippocampal memory.
我当时正在写关于海马记忆的拨款。
So that's when I got really interested in the effects of exercise on both prefrontal focus and attention function and hippocampal function because of my own observation.
因此，从那时起，由于我自己的观察，我对运动对前额焦点和注意力功能以及海马功能的影响真正感兴趣。
I still remember where I was sitting, which office I was in when I had this revelation.
我仍然记得当我得到这个启示时，我坐在哪里，在哪个办公室。
But the thing that really sealed it for me, that made me think, not just, "Oh, this is interesting," but "I want to study this," is right around that time, I got a phone call from my mom who said that my dad wasn't feeling well and that he had told her that he got lost driving back from the 7-Eleven, which is literally seven blocks from our house that I grew up in.
但真正让我印象深刻的事情，让我思考的不仅仅是“哦，这很有趣”，而是“我想研究这个”，就在那时，我接到妈妈的电话，她说我爸爸感觉不舒服，他告诉她他从 7-11 便利店开车回来迷路了，那里距离我长大的家只有七个街区。
I knew that was hippocampal function.
我知道那是海马体的功能。
I suspected dementia.
我怀疑是痴呆症。
I suspected, though didn't want to admit, Alzheimer's dementia, which he had.
我怀疑他患有阿尔茨海默氏症，尽管我不想承认。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
It was funny because, I mean, wasn't funny, but my mom and dad are two sides of a very different coin.
这很有趣，因为我的意思是，这并不好笑，但我的妈妈和爸爸是一个非常不同的硬币的两个侧面。
My dad is the engineer, not so active all his life, but would love to sit and read books all day.
我爸爸是一名工程师，一生不那么活跃，但喜欢整天坐着看书。
My mom was the athlete.
我妈妈是运动员。
She played tennis, team tennis, into her 80s, and it started to show at that point.
她打网球，团体网球，直到 80 多岁，从那时起就开始显现出来。
So then I had even a more pressing reason to think about what the effects of exercise were, because I noticed that all the things that were improving in my brain suddenly went away in my dad's brain.
因此，我有一个更紧迫的理由去思考运动的效果是什么，因为我注意到我大脑中所有改善的东西突然在我父亲的大脑中消失了。
Really, really smart guy, engineer in Silicon Valley, helped that push in Silicon Valley in the '70s happen.
非常非常聪明的家伙，硅谷的工程师，帮助推动了 70 年代硅谷的发展。
He had no more memory.
他已经没有记忆了。
He couldn't focus his attention.
他无法集中注意力。
His mood was rock bottom.
他的心情跌入谷底。
He's a very happy guy.
他是一个非常快乐的人。
And everything was the opposite in me.
而我的一切却恰恰相反。
I started thinking, "This isn't just something to help somebody who wants to get tenure.
我开始思考，“这不仅仅是帮助那些想要获得终身职位的人。
This is something that could help millions and millions of people, most importantly, our aging population.
这可以帮助数百万人，最重要的是，帮助我们的老龄化人口。
What's happening?"
发生什么事了？”
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
And so the thing that makes me wake up in the morning is when I realize that every single time you move your body, you are releasing a whole bunch of neurochemicals.
所以让我早上醒来的事情是当我意识到每次你移动你的身体时，你都会释放出一大堆神经化学物质。
Some of them we've talked about, that good mood comes from dopamine and serotonin and noradrenaline.
我们已经讨论过其中一些，好心情来自多巴胺、血清素和去甲肾上腺素。
But the thing that gets released also, particularly with aerobic exercise, is a growth factor called brain-derived neurotrophic factor, or BDNF.
但是，特别是在有氧运动中，也会释放一种生长因子，称为脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF）。
That is so important because what it does is it goes directly to your hippocampus and it helps brand new brain cells grow in your hippocampus.
这非常重要，因为它的作用是直接进入你的海马体，帮助全新的脑细胞在你的海马体中生长。
We all have that.
我们都有。
Even if you're a couch potato, you can get new brain cells in your hippocampus to grow.
即使您是一个沙发迷，您的海马体中也可以生长新的脑细胞。
But it's like giving your hippocampus a boost with this regular BDNF if you are exercising, which means that we all have the capacity to grow a bigger, fatter, fluffier hippocampus.
但这就像在锻炼时通过定期补充 BDNF 来增强您的海马体一样，这意味着我们都有能力长出更大、更胖、更蓬松的海马体。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
So what I like to give people is this image of every single time you move your body, it's like giving your brain this wonderful bubble bath of neurochemicals.
所以我想给人们的印象是，每次你移动身体时，就像给你的大脑注入了神经化学物质的美妙泡泡浴。
What's going on?
这是怎么回事？
I need my bubble bath of adrenaline and dopamine and serotonin and growth factors.
我需要肾上腺素、多巴胺、血清素和生长因子的泡泡浴。
With regular bubble baths, what am I doing?
定期泡泡浴，我在做什么？
I'm growing a big, fat, fluffy hippocampus.
我正在长出一个又大又胖又毛茸茸的海马体。
I'm not going to cure my father's dementia, Alzheimer's dementia, but you know what?
我不会治愈我父亲的痴呆症，阿尔茨海默氏痴呆症，但你知道吗？
If I go into my 70s with a big, fat, fluffy hippocampus, even if I had that in my genes and it starts to kick in, it's going to take longer for that disease to start to affect my ability to form and retain new long-term memories for facts and events, which is my motivation for getting up and doing my 30 to 45 minutes of aerobic exercise every day.
如果我到了 70 多岁时，海马体又大又肥、蓬松，即使我的基因里有这样的东西，而且它开始起作用，这种疾病也需要更长的时间才能开始影响我对事实和事件形成和保留新的长期记忆的能力，这是我每天起床进行 30 到 45 分钟有氧运动的动力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Fantastic.
太棒了。
Quick question about your protocol, just because, and then we'll discuss a few mechanistic things related to what signals the body might be sending the brain and a little bit more detail on BDNF and some circuitry.
关于你的协议的简单问题，只是因为，然后我们将讨论一些与身体可能向大脑发送哪些信号相关的机械问题，以及有关 BDNF 和一些电路的更多细节。
So 30 to 45 minutes of ...
所以30到45分钟...
It sounds like cardiovascular exercise might be special.
听起来心血管锻炼可能很特别。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But as I say that, and I think about the literature that I'm aware of in mice, and some in monkeys and certainly in humans, looking at the effects of exercise on brain function, and typically the outcome is improvement, almost always.
但正如我所说，我想到了我所知道的关于小鼠、猴子、当然还有人类的文献，研究了运动对大脑功能的影响，通常结果是改善，几乎总是如此。
I don't think I've ever seen a paper showing that when animals or humans exercise more that their brain gets worse.
我认为我从未见过一篇论文表明，当动物或人类锻炼得越多，他们的大脑就会变得更糟。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I just can't think of a single paper.
我就是想不出一篇论文。
Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
并不意味着它不存在。
I'm sure someone will put one in the comment section.
相信一定有人会在评论区留言。
They'll find that one, and thank you, if you can find that.
他们会找到那个，如果你能找到的话，谢谢你。
But it seems like it's always cardiovascular exercise, and experimentally in a lab it's a lot easier to get a mouse to run on a treadmill than it is to get a mouse to lift weights, although people have put little ankle weights on mice and done it.
但它似乎总是心血管锻炼，而且在实验室的实验中，让老鼠在跑步机上跑步比让老鼠举重要容易得多，尽管人们已经在老鼠脚踝上放了一点重量并做到了这一点。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the ways of getting mice to do resistance work is actually a little bit barbaric.
而让老鼠做抵抗工作的方式其实有点野蛮。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Little stressful.
压力不大。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oftentimes, they'll incapacitate a limb to overload another limb.
通常，他们会使一个肢体丧失能力，而使另一个肢体超载。
It's an asymmetric thing.
这是一个不对称的事情。
It's not the same as sending them into do squats or dead lifts or something.
这和让他们做深蹲或硬拉之类的不一样。
But cardiovascular exercise might be special.
但有氧运动可能比较特殊。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What are your thoughts on that?
您对此有何看法？
And please, first though, tell us your routine.
不过，请首先告诉我们您的日常安排。
Your routine is 30 to 45 minutes of ...
您的日常活动是 30 到 45 分钟...
Are you a Peloton cycler?
您是 Peloton 自行车手吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Does it matter?
有关系吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
I think that the data suggests that as long as your heart rate is getting up for these long-term effects on your hippocampus and prefrontal cortex, you also get better at shifting and focusing your attention.
我认为数据表明，只要你的心率因海马体和前额皮质的长期影响而上升，你也会更好地转移和集中注意力。
For that, you need cardiovascular.
为此，您需要心血管。
What I use is a video workout that I started even before the pandemic called Daily Burn.
我使用的是我在大流行之前就开始的视频锻炼，称为“每日燃烧”。
And it's just thousands of different workouts, but I love ...
这只是数千种不同的锻炼，但我喜欢......
They are 30 minutes, that I sometimes add on a 10-to-15-minute stretch at the beginning or at the end.
它们是 30 分钟，有时我会在开始或结束时添加 10 到 15 分钟的时间。
I love the variety.
我喜欢这个品种。
Sometimes I do it with weights, sometimes I do it without weights.
有时我用重量来做，有时我不用重量做。
I love kickboxing, so they have a lot of kickboxing in there.
我喜欢跆拳道，所以他们那里有很多跆拳道。
It just fits my routine.
这很适合我的日常。
It's always there and I don't have to get all dressed up to go to the gym and to work out.
它总是在那里，我不必盛装打扮去健身房锻炼。
So that's what I do.
这就是我所做的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that's a daily thing, seven days a week?
这是每天都会发生的事情，一周 7 天？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Seven days a week, fantastic.
一周7天，太棒了。
So in terms of the way that some of these changes are being conveyed from the body to the brain, that fascinates me.
因此，就这些变化从身体传递到大脑的方式而言，这让我着迷。
As you and I know, and I'm sort of a repeating record on the podcast, always saying, "You got a brain, but you also have a spinal cord, and then your nervous system connects everything.
正如你和我所知，我在播客上重复记录，总是说，“你有大脑，但你也有脊髓，然后你的神经系统连接一切。
Every organ in your body is basically signaled to by the nervous system and back to the nervous system.
身体的每个器官基本上都由神经系统发出信号并返回神经系统。
Your spleen, everything." But let's imagine your morning routine.
你的脾脏，一切。”但让我们想象一下您早上的例行公事。
You do your cardiovascular exercise, Okay, so you're pumping more blood.
你进行心血管锻炼，好吧，所以你会泵出更多的血液。
That's the definition of a higher heart rate.
这就是较高心率的定义。
Stroke volume of the heart goes up over time.
心脏的每搏输出量随着时间的推移而增加。
You're getting fitter.
你越来越健康了。
So blood flow of the brain is increasing.
所以大脑的血流量正在增加。
Do we know how that gets translated to a signal to release more BDNF?
我们知道如何将其转化为释放更多 BDNF 的信号吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then it raises this other question, which is does it matter where your mind is when you exercise?
然后它提出了另一个问题，即当你锻炼时你的思想在哪里重要吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because ultimately, the brain, of course, you can anchor your attention to the exercise or you can be listening to a podcast or something else.
因为最终，大脑当然可以将你的注意力集中在锻炼上，或者你可以听播客或其他东西。
I've always wondered about this.
我一直想知道这个问题。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Can we enhance the effects of exercise by combining the enhanced blood flow with cognitive work during exercise?
我们能否通过将运动过程中血流量的增强与认知工作结合起来来增强运动的效果？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or is it simply a matter of just getting more blood flow up to the hippocampus?
或者仅仅是让更多的血液流向海马体的问题？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
I wish I have the answer to that question too.
我希望我也能得到这个问题的答案。
My instinct is yes, it matters, partially because of the work of your colleague Alia Crum on mindset and the power of that to change how physiologically our body is responding.
我的直觉是肯定的，这很重要，部分原因是你的同事 Alia Crum 在心态方面的工作以及心态改变我们身体的生理反应的力量。
So how could it not work in her experiments, or work in her experiments and not work for my morning or our morning exercise routine?
那么它怎么可能在她的实验中不起作用，或者在她的实验中起作用但对我的早晨或我们的晨练例程不起作用呢？
But are there studies, point to a study?
但是有研究吗？有研究吗？
I don't know of one.
我不知道有一个。
So exercise neuroscientists out there, I'd love to see that study done.
因此，锻炼神经科学家的能力，我很乐意看到这项研究完成。
So yes, it works.
所以是的，它有效。
Before I go into the aerobic thing, I always like to start with the least amount of exercise to get something really useful because I don't want people to say, "Oh God, I hate sweating.
在我开始有氧运动之前，我总是喜欢从最少的运动量开始，以获得真正有用的东西，因为我不想让人们说，“天哪，我讨厌出汗。
I don't want to listen anymore."
我不想再听了。”
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
So I always like to start with, studies have shown that just 10 minutes of walking outside can shift your mood.
所以我总是喜欢从研究表明，只需到外面散步 10 分钟就可以改变你的心情。
That is part of that neurochemical bubble bath that you're getting, dopamine, serotonin, noradrenaline.
这是你所得到的神经化学泡泡浴的一部分，多巴胺、血清素、去甲肾上腺素。
Anybody can walk for 10 minutes.
任何人都可以步行10分钟。
And so that is, for all of you thinking that out there, "What is the minimum that I could get some of these brain effects," 10 minutes of walking.
所以，对于你们所有人来说，“我能得到这些大脑影响的最低限度是多少”，步行 10 分钟。
Anybody can do it.
任何人都可以做到。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is outside important?
外面重要吗？
I'm a big believer in getting photons into the eyes.
我坚信将光子带入眼睛。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
I think that that study was done indoors on a treadmill and the comparison wasn't done.
我认为这项研究是在室内跑步机上进行的，并且没有进行比较。
But moving your ...
但移动你的...
Which is great.
这太棒了。
In the middle of the pandemic, I walked around my apartment for 30 minutes sometimes, just for some variety.
在疫情期间，我有时会在公寓里走上 30 分钟，只是为了找点乐子。
Felt like a rat on a running wheel, but yes.
感觉就像一只跑轮上的老鼠，但是是的。
So that minimum amount of movement in your body can get you those mood effects.
因此，身体最少量的运动就能给你带来这些情绪效果。
But what about the big, fat, fluffy hippocampus?
但是又大又胖又蓬松的海马体呢？
What about the better-performing prefrontal cortex?
那么表现更好的前额皮质呢？
That's where you start to need the cardio workout.
这就是你开始需要有氧运动的地方。
From my reading of the literature, there haven't been enough studies directly comparing/contrasting kickboxing with running with whatever other cardio that you need to do.
从我阅读的文献来看，还没有足够的研究直接比较/对比跆拳道和跑步以及你需要做的任何其他有氧运动。
But any cardio workout that is done has these positive effects.
但任何有氧运动都会产生这些积极的影响。
So I'm going to say my interpretation of that is that whatever way you get your heart rate up, including a power walk, a power walk can get your heart rate up, that is beneficial.
所以我想说的是，我对此的解释是，无论你以何种方式提高心率，包括力量步行，力量步行都可以提高你的心率，这是有益的。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
And what is happening: there are two pathways that have been studied about how you go from moving your body to more BDNF, that neurotrophin that's increasing the growth of new hippocampal brain cells.
正在发生的事情：已经研究了两条途径，研究如何从移动身体到增加 BDNF，即促进新海马脑细胞生长的神经营养素。
The two pathways are the following: One is a myokine, which is a protein released by the muscles — and not your heart.
这两条途径如下：一条是肌因子，它是由肌肉而不是心脏释放的蛋白质。
These are striated muscles in your body.
这些是您体内的横纹肌。
And so by running, these were studies done in rats on running wheels, they showed that the running rats had more of this myokine, released the myokine past the blood-brain barrier, so it got into the rarefied, very protected bloodstream of inside the brain.
因此，通过跑步，这些研究是在跑轮上的老鼠身上进行的，他们表明，跑步的老鼠有更多的这种肌因子，释放的肌因子穿过血脑屏障，因此它进入了大脑内部稀薄的、非常受保护的血流。
That myokine stimulated the release of BDNF in the brain.
该肌因子刺激大脑中 BDNF 的释放。
That's pathway number one.
这是第一条途径。
Pathway number two comes through the liver because exercise is a stress, generally.
第二条途径通过肝脏，因为运动通常是一种压力。
How do we know that?
我们怎么知道这一点？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Well, cortisol is released whenever we exercise it.
嗯，每当我们锻炼时，皮质醇就会被释放。
We need that sugar in our blood, so that's how the physiological mechanisms work.
我们的血液中需要糖，这就是生理机制的运作方式。
And so there is a ketone, beta-hydroxybutyrate, that we've known for a very long time that gets released by the liver during exercise.
因此，我们很早就知道一种酮，即β-羟基丁酸，它会在运动过程中由肝脏释放。
We also know that that particular ketone passes that blood-brain barrier.
我们还知道这种特定的酮可以通过血脑屏障。
It's another stimulant for BDNF.
它是 BDNF 的另一种兴奋剂。
So the final common pathway seems to be BDNF stimulation in the hippocampus.
所以最终的共同途径似乎是海马体中的 BDNF 刺激。
Is it the only one?
是唯一的一个吗？
Probably not, but that's the one that has been studied most clearly.
可能不是，但这是研究最清楚的一个。
So it comes from all of our physiological systems, our muscles working, our liver responding to the stress of exercise, and what is it doing?
那么它来自我们所有的生理系统，我们的肌肉工作，我们的肝脏对运动压力的反应，它在做什么？
It is giving more BDNF precursors to get into our brain to cause the up-spike of BDNF, which is part of your bubble bath that you're getting every time you move.
它会提供更多的 BDNF 前体进入我们的大脑，导致 BDNF 激增，这是您每次移动时都会享受到的泡泡浴的一部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love that description of a factor from muscle and a factor from liver because anytime we're thinking about movement of the body and translating that to the brain, as you so clearly pointed out, it needs to traverse the blood-brain barrier.
我喜欢对肌肉因素和肝脏因素的描述，因为每当我们考虑身体的运动并将其转化为大脑时，正如您明确指出的那样，它需要穿过血脑屏障。
Not everything that happens in the body is communicated to the brain, and these seem really important signals.
并不是体内发生的所有事情都会传达到大脑，这些信号似乎非常重要。
Beta-hydroxybutyrate, you mentioned is a ketone.
你提到的β-羟基丁酸酯是一种酮。
I just want to underscore that doesn't mean, folks, that you need to be on a ketogenic diet.
我只是想强调，伙计们，这并不意味着您需要进行生酮饮食。
I think people hear ketone and they think ...
我认为人们听到酮他们会认为......
I know some people are, most people are not, I imagine.
我知道有些人是，但我想大多数人不是。
There are ketones that are released in your brain and body that can function, even if you're ingesting carbohydrates and not ketogenic, just for a point of clarification.
即使您摄入的是碳水化合物而不是生酮，您的大脑和身体中也会释放一些可以发挥作用的酮，只是为了澄清这一点。
This issue of new neurons is one that you hear a lot, neurogenesis.
新神经元的问题是你经常听到的问题，即神经发生。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're going to grow new neurons.
你将会长出新的神经元。
My understanding is that the rodent literature is very clear that animals that run on wheels more often, it turns out rodents love to run on wheels.
我的理解是，关于啮齿动物的文献非常清楚，动物更经常在轮子上奔跑，事实证明啮齿动物喜欢在轮子上奔跑。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you know these studies by Hopi Hoekstra, which are pretty funny.
你知道霍皮·霍克斯特拉（Hopi Hoekstra）的这些研究吗？这些研究非常有趣。
They're very cool, by the way, Hopi – Howard Hughes Investigator.
顺便说一下，他们非常酷，霍皮人——霍华德·休斯调查员。
I'm not making light of them.
我不会轻视他们。
They put running wheels in a field, and wild rodents will run to the running wheel and run on that running wheel.
他们把跑轮放在田野里，野生啮齿动物就会跑到跑轮上，在那个跑轮上奔跑。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Oh, that's great.
哦，那太好了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there's some, they really enjoy it, which I find amusing for reasons that probably only a neuroscientist would find amusing.
所以有些人真的很喜欢它，我觉得这很有趣，原因可能只有神经科学家才会觉得有趣。
In any case, in rodents, it seems that running more on a wheel can trigger neurogenesis, literally, the birth of new neurons and the addition of new neurons to the hippocampus.
无论如何，在啮齿动物中，在轮子上跑得更多似乎可以触发神经发生，从字面上看，就是新神经元的诞生以及新神经元向海马体的添加。
In monkeys, this has been controversial.
在猴子身上，这一直存在争议。
It seems it does happen in the hippocampus and in the olfactory bulb.
看来它确实发生在海马体和嗅球中。
Probably not in the neocortex-
可能不在新皮质中-
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thinking back to the decades-
回想几十年前的事——
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Controversy.
争议。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or more old controversy between Liz Gould and Pashka Rakeesh.
或者莉兹·古尔德和帕什卡·拉基什之间更古老的争议。
I hope they settled their differences there.
我希望他们在那里解决分歧。
Neuroscientists love to argue.
神经科学家喜欢争论。
It's what we do.
这就是我们所做的。
In humans, I think it's been a bit controversial.
对于人类来说，我认为这有点争议。
Some people say absolutely, yes.
有些人说绝对是的。
Other people say absolutely, no, there are new neurons added to the adult brain.
其他人则说绝对不，成人大脑中添加了新的神经元。
I haven't followed that literature down to the detail, but I do remember one study that I don't think is contested, which is the work of Rusty Gage at the Salk Institute, where they actually injected a sort of dye-type marker into the brains of terminally ill humans, who very graciously offered to have their brains removed and dissected after death.
我没有详细追究这些文献，但我确实记得一项我认为没有争议的研究，那就是索尔克研究所拉斯蒂·盖奇的工作，他们实际上将一种染料型标记物注入绝症人类的大脑中，这些人非常慷慨地提出在死后将他们的大脑切除并解剖。
In some cases, very old terminally ill humans, they did see evidence for new neurons.
在某些情况下，对于年纪很大、身患绝症的人类来说，他们确实看到了新神经元的证据。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Being born in the hippocampus.
出生于海马体。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Can I trust that idea still?
我还能相信这个想法吗？
Is that generally accepted?
这是普遍接受的吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Well, so after that study, which was quite a while ago, there are more recent studies, still controversial, but showing and demonstrating and using even new and better techniques than were used in that original Rusty Gage study, which was groundbreaking at the time, that suggest, and I think show, that there are new neurons born in adult human brains into the ninth decade of life.
好吧，在很久以前的那项研究之后，有更多最近的研究，仍然存在争议，但展示和展示并使用了比最初的 Rusty Gage 研究中使用的新的更好的技术，这在当时是开创性的，这表明，而且我认为表明，在生命的九个十年，成年人的大脑中诞生了新的神经元。
So they not only did this ...
所以他们不仅做到了这一点...
I think those patients were in their 60s, then they died of cancer.
我认为那些病人已经60多岁了，然后他们死于癌症。
But these new studies, looking across the timeline, can we see?
但这些新研究，纵观时间线，我们能看到吗？
Because the other thing was, yeah, maybe you have some when you're 20, but by the time you're older and you might need these new neurons, you have no new neuron growth.
因为另一件事是，是的，也许你 20 岁时就有一些，但当你年纪大了，你可能需要这些新的神经元时，你就没有新的神经元生长了。
And so these studies seem to suggest that yes, yes, you did.
所以这些研究似乎表明，是的，是的，你做到了。
Yes, you do.
是的，你知道。
And we all do even into old age.
甚至到了老年，我们都会这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
And I'll just take a moment to say that I am personally not aware of any studies looking at other forms of exercise besides cardiovascular exercise for sake of brain health.
我想花一点时间说，我个人不知道有任何研究为了大脑健康而考虑除心血管运动之外的其他形式的运动。
This, I think, is an important gap in the literature that ought to be filled, whether or not, for instance, high-intensity interval training or whether or not weight training, which has other effects on the musculature.
我认为，这是文献中应该填补的一个重要空白，无论是否进行高强度间歇训练或是否进行重量训练（这对肌肉组织有其他影响）。
So you can imagine perhaps the myokine-to-BDNF pathway, the pathway one that you mentioned, might be signaled, but maybe not the liver pathway.
所以你可以想象，也许肌因子到 BDNF 途径，即你提到的途径，可能会发出信号，但可能不是肝脏途径。
Maybe, yes.
也许，是的。
I'm speculating here.
我在这里猜测。
Those studies need to be done.
这些研究需要完成。
To my knowledge, they just haven't been done yet, but they should be done.
据我所知，它们还没有完成，但应该完成。
If you would, could you tell us about some of the more specific effects of exercise on memory?
如果愿意，您能告诉我们运动对记忆力的一些更具体的影响吗？
Memory is a broad category of effects and phenomena.
记忆是一个广泛的效应和现象类别。
So things like, what comes to mind is short-term, medium- and long-term memory, reaction time.
所以，我想到的是短期、中期和长期记忆、反应时间。
Learning math, at least for me, is quite a bit different than learning history, although there's certainly overlap in the neural underpinnings.
学习数学，至少对我来说，与学习历史有很大不同，尽管神经基础肯定有重叠。
What has been demonstrated in the laboratory, in animal models, but especially in humans?
实验室、动物模型，尤其是人类已经证明了什么？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah, sure.
是的，当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if you want to share with us any results from your lab, published or unpublished, I'm sure that the audience would be delighted to learn about them.
如果您想与我们分享您实验室的任何结果（无论已发表还是未发表），我相信观众会很高兴了解它们。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Let me start with the immediate effects, acute effects, as they're called, of exercise on the brain.
让我从运动对大脑的直接影响开始，即所谓的急性影响。
So this is asking, what does a one-off exercise session do for your brain?
所以这是在问，一次性锻炼对你的大脑有什么作用？
There are three major effects that have been reproduced.
再现了三大效果。
I've seen it in my lab.
我在我的实验室里见过它。
Many labs have reproduced this.
许多实验室都重现了这一点。
So what you get with the one-off, this is usually an aerobic-type exercise session, 30, 30 to 45 minutes.
所以，一次性的锻炼通常是一次有氧运动，持续 30、30 到 45 分钟。
What you get is that mood boost, very, very consistent.
你得到的是情绪的提升，非常非常一致。
You get improved prefrontal function, typically tested with a Stroop test, which is a test that asks you to shift and focus your attention in specific ways.
您的前额功能会得到改善，通常通过斯特鲁普测试进行测试，该测试要求您以特定方式转移和集中注意力。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
It's a challenging task and clearly dependent on the prefrontal cortex, largely, and significant improvements in reaction time, so your speed at responding, often a motor, but cognitive motor response is improved.
这是一项具有挑战性的任务，显然很大程度上依赖于前额叶皮层，并且反应时间显着改善，因此您的反应速度（通常是运动，但认知运动反应）得到了改善。
Over the pandemic, one of the unpublished studies that I did, looking at the effects of 30 minutes of age-appropriate workout in subjects ranging in age from their 20s all the way up to their 90s.
在疫情期间，我做了一项未发表的研究，研究了 30 分钟适合年龄的锻炼对年龄从 20 多岁到 90 多岁的受试者的影响。
So what are the things that I saw more consistently?
那么我看到的比较一致的事情是什么呢？
Irrespective of your age, everybody got a decreased anxiety and depression and a hostility score, which is very important.
无论您的年龄如何，每个人的焦虑和抑郁以及敌意得分均有所下降，这非常重要。
So it's not just decreasing your anxiety and depression, but decreasing your hostility levels.
因此，这不仅可以减少您的焦虑和抑郁，还可以减少您的敌意程度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Making the world a better place.
让世界变得更美好。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Making the world a better place.
让世界变得更美好。
Energy, the feeling of energy went up.
能量，能量的感觉上升了。
What we found is in the older population, even more than in the younger population, we saw improved performance on both Stroop and Eriksen flanker task, which is another task dependent on really focusing in on different letters and paying attention to what letter is being shown.
我们发现，在老年人群中，甚至比在年轻人口中，我们看到斯特鲁普和埃里克森侧翼任务的表现都有所提高，这是另一项依赖于真正关注不同字母并注意所显示的字母的任务。
So these are consistent effects.
所以这些是一致的效果。
How long do they last?
它们能持续多久？
One of the studies that I did publish in my lab showed that the immediate effects of exercise lasted up to two hours.
我在实验室发表的一项研究表明，运动的直接效果可持续长达两个小时。
Unfortunately, that was the longest that we lasted.
不幸的是，那是我们持续的最长时间。
They were still there at two hours, so that's a pretty big bang for your buck.
两个小时后他们仍然在那里，所以这对你来说是一个相当大的打击。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That is.
也就是说。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
One, 30 minute.
一、30分钟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sorry to interrupt.
抱歉打扰。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I just want to make sure I understand.
我只是想确保我理解。
So when you say the effects lasted up to two hours, does that mean up to two hours after you finished exercise?
那么，当您说效果持续长达两个小时时，这是否意味着您完成锻炼后最多两个小时？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or up to two hours of memory-challenging work?
或者长达两个小时的记忆力挑战工作？
Yeah, just to be clear.
是的，只是为了说清楚。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah, that's a great question.
是的，这是一个很好的问题。
So my study looked at two hours after you finished your workout, we gave you these cognitive tests.
所以我的研究着眼于你完成锻炼后两个小时，我们给你做了这些认知测试。
During that two-hour period, you were free to do anything except exercise or eat.
在那两个小时的时间里，除了运动或吃饭之外，你可以自由地做任何事情。
There was no extra load on people.
人们没有额外的负担。
But two hours later, you did do significantly better on these focused attention tasks compared to a group that watched videos for-
但两个小时后，与观看视频的组相比，你在这些集中注意力的任务上确实做得更好——
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
...
...
compared to a group that watched videos for the exercise period.
与在锻炼期间观看视频的一组进行比较。
This was an hour of cycling that they did.
他们骑了一个小时的自行车。
These were young subjects in their 20s.
这些都是 20 多岁的年轻受试者。
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 2 部分（共 4 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
So if I finish my exercise at 9:00 a.m., even if I start this cognitive work, this mental work at 11:00, I'll still see benefits.
因此，如果我在上午 9:00 完成锻炼，即使我在 11:00 开始进行认知工作、脑力工作，我仍然会看到好处。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes, at least by 11:00 because I didn't go farther than two hours.
是的，至少要在 11:00 之前，因为我走的时间不超过两个小时。
So it could last even longer than that.
所以它可能会持续更长时间。
But I have evidence that it lasts for two hours.
但我有证据表明它持续了两个小时。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And perhaps if I had started the cognitive work 45 minutes after my exercise ended, it would also be helpful?
如果我在锻炼结束后 45 分钟开始认知工作，也许也会有帮助？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
.
。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there's no reason to think that you have to wait before starting cognitive work?
那么没有理由认为您必须等待才能开始认知工作？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
No reason at all.
根本没有理由。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm asking questions of the sort that I get in the comments, that we are going to get in the comment session.
我问的是我在评论中收到的问题，我们将在评论会议中收到的问题。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Okay, great.
好的，太好了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We always strive for clarity here.
我们始终力求清晰。
So what this tells me is that exercising early in the day may have a special effect.
所以这告诉我，早上锻炼可能会有特殊效果。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I realize that some people cannot exercise until later in the evening but you mentioned something earlier that I want to cue people to.
我意识到有些人要到晚上才能锻炼，但你之前提到过一些我想提醒人们去做的事情。
It's very, very important.
这非常非常重要。
I don't think I've ever mentioned this on the podcast, which is any kind of physical activity will increase cortisol to varying degrees.
我想我从来没有在播客上提到过这一点，即任何形式的体力活动都会不同程度地增加皮质醇。
And so sometimes it's a healthy increase.
所以有时这是一个健康的增长。
Sometimes it's an unhealthy increase if you do two hours of really intense exercise and you're not prepared for it.
有时，如果您进行了两个小时的剧烈运动而您没有为此做好准备，那么这种增加是不健康的。
That's a big spike in cortisol, probably not a good thing for most people.
这是皮质醇的大幅飙升，对大多数人来说可能不是一件好事。
But if you are going to do your cardiovascular or weight training later in the day, that increase in cortisol can promote too much wakefulness for sleep, et cetera.
但如果你打算在当天晚些时候进行心血管或重量训练，皮质醇的增加会导致睡眠时过度清醒，等等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Shifting that cortisol spike early in the day is associated with a number of important things related to mood, et cetera.
一天中早些时候改变皮质醇峰值与许多与情绪等相关的重要因素有关。
But more and more what I'm thinking and hearing is that exercise early in the day is key.
但我越来越多地想到和听到的是，清晨锻炼是关键。
Our former Dean of the Medical School, Phil Pizzo, was and is kind of famous still for jogging between the hours of 4:00 and 5:00 a.m.
我们医学院的前院长菲尔·皮佐 (Phil Pizzo) 因在凌晨 4:00 至 5:00 之间慢跑而闻名。
and 5:00 and 6:00, and then running the medical school.
5:00和6:00，然后运行医学院。
And you're up early doing your exercise and cold shower and meditation.
你很早就起床锻炼、洗冷水澡和冥想。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We'll talk about meditation, but this is more and more of a push, I feel like, or a stimulus for us to think about moving our exercise earlier in the day.
我们会谈论冥想，但我觉得这越来越像是一种推动力，或者是一种刺激，让我们考虑在当天早些时候进行锻炼。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
I mean I like to say that I know there are moms and dads out there and they just say, "Look, I have a kid.
我想说的是，我知道外面有爸爸妈妈，他们只是说：“看，我有一个孩子。
The kid's more important than my doing my exercise." So you will get benefits if you do it whenever you can, so that's great.
这孩子比我的锻炼更重要。”所以只要你能做的话你就会得到好处，所以这很好。
More power to you.
给你更多的力量。
But what all the neuroscience data suggests is the best time to do your exercise is right before you need to use your brain in the most important way that you need to use it every day.
但所有神经科学数据表明，锻炼的最佳时间是在您需要以每天最重要的方式使用大脑之前。
So that is why the morning for most of us is beneficial.
这就是为什么早晨对我们大多数人来说都是有益的。
That's why I do it in the morning.
这就是我早上这样做的原因。
I'm lucky enough to be able to do that.
我很幸运能够做到这一点。
But yeah, it makes sense with everything we know about how this works and how it benefits our brain.
但是，是的，我们所知道的关于它是如何工作的以及它如何有益于我们的大脑的一切都是有道理的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think about our colleague, Eric Kandel, who not incidentally has a Nobel Prize and studies memory, and rumor has it that he's been a swimmer for a lot of years.
我想到了我们的同事埃里克·坎德尔（Eric Kandel），他并非偶然获得了诺贝尔奖，并且研究记忆，有传言说他多年来一直是游泳运动员。
He's in his 90s now, he'll put in half a mile, but he used to do swim a mile a day or something of that sort.
他现在已经 90 多岁了，他会跑半英里，但他以前每天会游一英里之类的。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Wow.
哇。
I heard that too, that he was a swimmer and he does it very, very religiously.
我也听说他是一名游泳运动员，而且他非常非常虔诚地游泳。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there are a few other neuroscientists that do that.
还有其他一些神经科学家也在这样做。
I can think of a lot of neuroscientists that probably should exercise more, and I don't say that to poke at them.
我能想到很多神经科学家可能应该多锻炼，我这么说并不是为了嘲笑他们。
I just would love to see them doing their incredible work for many more decades.
我只是希望看到他们在接下来的几十年里继续从事令人难以置信的工作。
And everything that we're talking about today indicates that if one doesn't, unless you have incredible genetics, we all experience age-related dementia.
我们今天谈论的一切都表明，如果一个人不这样做，除非你有令人难以置信的基因，否则我们都会经历与年龄相关的痴呆症。
I mean the story of your father is a salient one, and we should remember that as we go forward.
我的意思是，你父亲的故事是一个突出的故事，我们在前进时应该记住这一点。
But I also want to emphasize ...
但我还想强调...
I'd love to get your thoughts on just memory and memory loss in general.
我很想听听您对记忆和一般记忆丧失的看法。
It seems we all get worse at remembering and learning things even if we don't get Alzheimer's.
即使我们没有患阿尔茨海默氏症，我们的记忆和学习能力似乎都会变差。
When does that typically start for humans?
对于人类来说，这通常从什么时候开始？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
I think there's so much variability, not only because we are individuals but because our stress levels are different, and, well, everybody's anxiety level has gone up in the last couple of years, but that also has an effect.
我认为存在很大的差异，不仅因为我们是个体，而且因为我们的压力水平不同，而且，过去几年每个人的焦虑水平都上升了，但这也会产生影响。
We don't remember as much in a highly stressful, highly anxious situation.
在高度紧张、高度焦虑的情况下，我们的记忆力就不那么强了。
So, as you know, it's hard to answer that question.
所以，如您所知，很难回答这个问题。
People say, "Okay, just tell me how much exercise I have to do." Okay, just-
人们会说：“好吧，告诉我我需要做多少运动就可以了。”好吧，只是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thirty to forty minutes a day.
每天三十到四十分钟。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I love that per day.
但我每天都喜欢这样。
I've been doing this whole thing of telling people, "Oh, the data say 150 to 200 minutes of zone 2 cardio, which is kind of moderately hard but not excessively hard.
我一直在告诉人们，“哦，数据显示 2 区有氧运动需要 150 到 200 分钟，这是中等难度，但不是太难。
But I love this every day theme because whenever I do that, the questions that come back are, "Well, what if I take a long hike on the weekends?" And so people start negotiating.
但我喜欢这个日常主题，因为每当我这样做时，回来的问题是，“好吧，如果我在周末长途徒步旅行怎么办？”于是人们开始谈判。
There's something that's very powerful about nonnegotiable every day.
每天都有一些不可协商的东西非常强大。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sun in your eyes every day, even through cloud cover.
每天都有阳光照进你的眼睛，即使是透过云层。
Exercise for 30 to 45 minutes.
锻炼30至45分钟。
Cold shower every day.
每天洗冷水澡。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Every day, yeah.
每天，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
My understanding of the literature is that somewhere in our 50s or 60s, we start noticing little hiccups in memory.
我对文献的理解是，在我们 50 多岁或 60 多岁的某个时候，我们开始注意到记忆中的小问题。
For some people younger, for some people later.
对于一些年轻的人来说，对于一些后来的人来说。
But I have to imagine that doing the exercise throughout one's entire life is going to help offset some of this-
但我必须想象，在一个人的一生中进行锻炼将有助于抵消其中的一些-
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
simply because of the BDNF and other downstream effects.
仅仅是因为 BDNF 和其他下游效应。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
I mean that's what it suggests.
我的意思是这就是它所暗示的。
One of my favorite studies, and then I want to get back to ...
我最喜欢的研究之一，然后我想回到......
you invited me to share some of my unpublished data on-
你邀请我分享一些我未发表的数据——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
...
...
the effects of long-term exercise.
长期锻炼的效果。
But first I want to share one of my favorite studies, which is a longitudinal study done in Swedish women, and this was published in 2018.
但首先我想分享我最喜欢的一项研究，这是一项针对瑞典女性的纵向研究，该研究发表于 2018 年。
What they did was back in the 1960s, they found Swedish women, 300 Swedish women in their 40s, and they characterized them as low fit, mid fit, high fit.
他们所做的事情是在 20 世纪 60 年代，他们找到了 300 名 40 多岁的瑞典女性，他们将她们分为低健身、中健身和高健身。
Then 40 years later, they came back and found these women.
40年后，他们回来发现了这些女人。
They let them live their lives.
他们让他们过自己的生活。
And they asked what happened to these women as a function of whether they were low fit, mid fit, high fit in their 40s.
他们询问这些女性在 40 多岁的时候会发生什么情况，根据她们的健康状况是低健康度、中等健康度还是高健康度。
They're now in their 80s.
他们现在已经80多岁了。
And what they found was that relative to the low fit or mid fit women, the women that were high fit gained nine more years of good cognition later in life.
他们发现，相对于低健康或中等健康的女性，高健康的女性在以后的生活中多获得了九年的良好认知能力。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Now, this is not a randomized controlled study.
现在，这不是一项随机对照研究。
This is a correlational study, but does it agree with everything that we've been talking about today?
这是一项相关研究，但它与我们今天讨论的一切一致吗？
Yes.
是的。
Does it agree with this idea that the women that were high fit were giving their brains this bubble bath, maybe not every day, but very, very regularly for that entire 40 years, and that built up their big, fat, beautiful hippocampi?
身体健康的女性可能不是每天都给自己的大脑洗泡泡浴，但在整个 40 年里非常非常有规律地进行，这样就形成了又大又胖又漂亮的海马体，这是否符合这样的观点？
Yes, it does.
是的，确实如此。
So that's one of my favorite studies.
这是我最喜欢的研究之一。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Another cause for getting the exercise in consistently.
持续锻炼的另一个原因。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I am impressed by this 10-minute walk and the improvements in mood from just a 10-minute walk.
这10分钟的步行以及仅仅10分钟步行所带来的心情改善给我留下了深刻的印象。
But again, I think that daily repetition also, I have to imagine, has effects on the very pathways that allow plasticity.
但我再次认为，我必须想象，每天的重复也会对允许可塑性的途径产生影响。
This is something in the realm of neuroplasticity we don't often hear about or think about even as neuroscientists which is that the pathways for engaging plasticity probably can be, probably — I'm speculating here, can be made better by engaging in the sorts of behavior that stimulate plasticity.
这是神经可塑性领域中的事情，即使作为神经科学家，我们也不会经常听到或思考，即参与可塑性的途径可能，可能——我在这里推测，可以通过参与刺激可塑性的行为来变得更好。
In other words, if one gets better at calming themselves down under stress, those circuits get better at doing that.
换句话说，如果一个人在压力下能够更好地让自己平静下来，那么这些电路就会更擅长做到这一点。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Neural circuits gain proficiency.
神经回路获得熟练程度。
And so, because blood vessels can grow, capillaries can grow in the brain, you can imagine that more pumping of blood to the brain, delivery of these various muscle and liver factors, would also establish larger or more efficient portals to getting that stuff there.
因此，因为血管可以生长，毛细血管可以在大脑中生长，你可以想象更多的血液泵送到大脑，输送这些不同的肌肉和肝脏因子，也会建立更大或更有效的门户来将这些东西送到那里。
So you could imagine kind of an amplifying effect of exercise.
所以你可以想象锻炼的放大效果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And again, I'm speculating here, but I've seen this over and over again in colleagues.
再说一遍，我在这里猜测，但我在同事身上一遍又一遍地看到了这一点。
The ones who exercise consistently seem to be really, really smart and doing amazing work well into their 80s and 90s, and the ones who aren't, some of whom actually pride themselves on how little they exercise, they get worse over time.
那些坚持锻炼的人似乎非常非常聪明，并且在 80 岁和 90 岁的时候仍然表现出色，而那些不锻炼的人，其中一些人实际上为自己锻炼的少而感到自豪，随着时间的推移，他们的情况会变得越来越糟。
You see them each meeting, each decade, and I'm not poking fun at them at all, it's actually quite hard to see, and they're kind of a fading light.
你每次见面、每十年都会看到他们，我根本不是在取笑他们，实际上很难看到，他们就像一盏逐渐暗淡的光芒。
They're starting to flicker.
它们开始闪烁。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there is this incredible relationship between body vitality and brain vitality.
因此，身体活力和大脑活力之间存在着令人难以置信的关系。
That is, of course, not an excuse for spending all day in the gym.
当然，这并不是整天泡在健身房的借口。
The gym rats ...
健身房里的老鼠...
I enjoy working out so I could imagine doing that, but that doesn't make us smarter, unfortunately.
我喜欢锻炼，所以我可以想象这样做，但不幸的是，这并不能让我们变得更聪明。
You actually have to do the cognitive work also.
实际上你还必须做认知工作。
Right?
对吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's not just exercise.
这不仅仅是锻炼。
So I'd love to hear about some of these new unpublished data.
所以我很想听听一些新的未发表的数据。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Okay.
好的。
So when I jumped into the exercise work, everybody was studying people 65 or older because that's when cognitive decline begins.
因此，当我开始进行锻炼工作时，每个人都在研究 65 岁或以上的人，因为那时认知能力开始下降。
And if the idea is exercise can help you with your cognition, then it makes sense.
如果这个想法是锻炼可以帮助你提高认知能力，那么这是有道理的。
However, I thought, "Well, it's great.
然而，我想：“嗯，这太棒了。
There's lots of work there." I wanted to know what happens in people in their 40s and their 50s, maybe even their 30s and their 20s.
那里有很多工作。”我想知道 40 多岁和 50 多岁的人，甚至 30 多岁和 20 多岁的人会发生什么。
Why?
为什么？
Because that's when we as humans are ready, willing and able to increase our exercise and it gets us set up to build our brains as we go into our 60s.
因为那时我们作为人类已经准备好、愿意并且能够增加锻炼，并且它可以让我们在 60 多岁的时候为大脑的发育做好准备。
And so the first study that I did looked at low fit participants from their 30s to mid 50s.
因此，我所做的第一项研究针对的是 30 多岁到 50 多岁的低适应度参与者。
We wanted to ask this question: How much exercise do you really need to start seeing benefits.
我们想问这个问题：您真正需要多少运动才能开始看到好处。
Do you see benefits?
你看到好处了吗？
Or maybe you have to wait until you start seeing cognitive decline to get benefits.
或者也许您必须等到开始看到认知能力下降才能获得好处。
That was one of the theories out there.
这是当时的理论之一。
And so that's what I wanted to do.
这就是我想做的。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
And so what we did was three months of two to three times a week cardio.
所以我们做了三个月每周两到三次的有氧运动。
It was a spin class.
这是一堂动感单车课。
Spin classes are great for cardio.
动感单车课程非常适合有氧运动。
And the comparison group was two to three times a week of competitive video scrabble.
对照组每周参加两到三次视频拼字游戏。
So no heart rate change, but they had to come into my lab and be in a group just like they were in a group for the spin class.
所以心率没有变化，但他们必须进入我的实验室并分成一组，就像他们参加动感单车课一样。
We tested them cognitively at the beginning and the end of the session.
我们在课程开始和结束时对他们进行了认知测试。
What we found was two to three times a week of cardio in these people that were low fit, which means specifically that they were exercising less than 30 minutes a week for the three months previous to the experiment, so they went from that to two to three times a week of spin class.
我们发现，这些体能较差的人每周进行两到三次有氧运动，这意味着在实验前的三个月里，他们每周的锻炼时间少于 30 分钟，因此他们从每周进行两到三次动感单车课程。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
And what we found was changes in baseline rates of their positive mood states went up relative to the video scrabble group.
我们发现，与视频拼字游戏组相比，他们积极情绪状态的基线率变化有所上升。
Their body image got more positive because they were exercising, which is great, and, really important, their motivation to exercise went up significantly compared to the video scrabble group, which is great.
他们的身体形象变得更加积极，因为他们正在锻炼，这很棒，而且非常重要的是，与视频拼字游戏组相比，他们锻炼的动机显着提高，这很棒。
So the more you exercise, the more motivated you are to exercise.
所以你锻炼得越多，你锻炼的动力就越大。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
What about cognition?
认知呢？
What changed in the cognitive circuits of their brain?
他们大脑的认知回路发生了什么变化？
Number one, we got improved performance on the Stroop task, but we're headed towards my favorite structure, which is the hippocampus.
第一，我们在斯特鲁普任务中的表现有所提高，但我们正朝着我最喜欢的结构前进，即海马体。
What we found was improved performance on both a recognition memory task, which was a memory and coding task — that is can you differentiate similar items that we're asking you to remember — and a spatial episodic memory task, where we had them play one of those doom-like games where they went into this spatial maze and they had to do things in a virtual city.
我们发现，识别记忆任务（即记忆和编码任务，即你能否区分我们要求你记住的相似项目）和空间情景记忆任务（我们让他们玩一种类似厄运的游戏，他们进入这个空间迷宫，并且必须在虚拟城市中做事）的性能都有所提高。
Their performance there got better, which is very, very classically dependent on the hippocampus.
他们在那里的表现变得更好，这非常非常经典地依赖于海马体。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
So it was so satisfying to do this study because I've been wanting to answer this question.
所以做这项研究非常令人满意，因为我一直想回答这个问题。
What is a minimum amount or doable amount of exercise that will get you these cognitive benefits?
为您带来这些认知益处的最低运动量或可行运动量是多少？
And now I can say in 30-to-50-year-olds that are low fit, two to three times a week, is that doable?
现在我可以说，对于 30 到 50 岁的低健康人群，每周进行 2 到 3 次，这可行吗？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Will it be hard if you're low fit?
如果体质不好的话会很难吗？
Yeah, it's going to be challenging, but absolutely doable.
是的，这将具有挑战性，但绝对可行。
So it makes sense with all of the mechanisms that we are ...
所以这对于我们所有的机制来说都是有意义的......
I didn't study the mechanisms, just to be clear ...
我没有研究机制，只是为了清楚......
but with all the mechanisms we are imagining are playing a role here, that absolutely makes sense and it is doable.
但是我们想象的所有机制都在这里发挥着作用，这绝对是有道理的，而且是可行的。
This is not like you have to become a marathon runner to get any of these benefits.
这并不像您必须成为马拉松运动员才能获得这些好处。
This is you have to start moving your body on a regular basis two to three times a week.
也就是说，您必须开始每周定期活动身体两到三次。
So I love that for its realness.
所以我喜欢它的真实性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How long are those sessions again?
这些会议又要持续多久？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
45 minutes.
45分钟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
45 minutes.
45分钟。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah, 45 minutes.
是的，45 分钟。
It's a typical spin kind of class.
这是一门典型的旋转类课程。
There's a warm-up for five minutes and a cool down for five minutes.
有五分钟的热身和五分钟的放松。
So it's really 35 minutes, 35 minutes of-
所以这真的是 35 分钟，35 分钟——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of work.
工作的。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
...
...
they're really pushing you.
他们真的在逼你。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so they're breathing reasonably hard.
所以他们的呼吸相当困难。
Heart rate is up.
心率上去了。
Heart rate is up.
心率上去了。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Heart rate is definitely up.
心率肯定上去了。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I find that all of those results are really interesting.
我发现所有这些结果都非常有趣。
The result showing improvement in motivation to exercise is interesting because it gets back to this issue of a self-amplifying effect.
显示锻炼动机改善的结果很有趣，因为它又回到了自我放大效应的问题。
And the neuroscientist in me wants to think about premotor circuits and the fact that we have a motor system that can obviously do things like lift cups and walk and run if we want to or need to.
我内心的神经科学家想要考虑运动前回路，以及我们拥有一个运动系统的事实，如果我们愿意或需要的话，它显然可以做一些事情，例如举起杯子、行走和跑步。
But that it's possible to create a kind of anticipatory activity in our nervous system where our body craves a certain stimulus.
但有可能在我们的神经系统中产生一种预期活动，使我们的身体渴望某种刺激。
You mentioned the cold and how you got to crave the cold.
你提到了寒冷以及你如何渴望寒冷。
Now, whether or not that's the adrenaline and the dopamine, et cetera or whether or not somebody who exercises started going from zero less than 30 minutes per week to two to three times a week 45 minutes, as you described for this study.
现在，无论是肾上腺素和多巴胺等，还是锻炼者是否开始从每周零不到 30 分钟锻炼到每周 2 到 3 次每次 45 分钟，正如您在本研究中所描述的那样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've had that experience before.
我以前有过这样的经历。
The cardio I tend to battle the most, and I love lifting heavy objects, at least heavy for me.
我最喜欢做有氧运动，而且我喜欢举起重物，至少对我来说很重。
I'm happy to go to the gym every other day and just lift heavy objects for an hour.
我很高兴每隔一天去健身房，举起重物一个小时。
It just makes me happy.
这让我很开心。
I like the way it feels and I've been doing it since I was in my teens, so 30 years.
我喜欢这种感觉，从十几岁起我就一直这样做，至今已有 30 年了。
Cardio's a little bit trickier.
有氧运动有点棘手。
I like to run, but if I stop running for a little while, I find it very hard to get back into.
我喜欢跑步，但是如果我停止跑步一段时间，我会发现很难再重新开始。
But if I start running three times a week for 30 to 45 minutes and I do this pretty consistently on the days I don't weight train, I find that I start to crave it.
但如果我开始每周跑步 3 次，每次 30 到 45 分钟，并且在不进行举重训练的日子里坚持这样做，我发现我开始渴望它。
It's almost as if my body needs that in order to, I always say, clear out the cobwebs, but it's like my mind doesn't function as well.
我总是说，就好像我的身体需要它来清除蜘蛛网，但我的大脑却无法正常运转。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Clearly, now I understand why and why exercise helps, but also, physically, I almost feel like my body needs to engage in that movement.
显然，现在我明白为什么运动会有所帮助，而且，从身体上来说，我几乎觉得我的身体需要参与这种运动。
The premotor circuits are kind of revving, kind of like revving the engine in a car while it's in park.
预电机电路有点加速，有点像汽车停车时加速发动机。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the motivation to exercise obviously could be multifaceted.
因此，锻炼的动机显然可以是多方面的。
It could be purely psychological.
这可能纯粹是心理作用。
But do you think there's any reason to speculate, at least, or believe that we can build an anticipatory reverberatory activity into our nervous system?
但你认为至少有理由推测或相信我们可以在我们的神经系统中建立一种预期的回响活动吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
I agree with that because I also have those same kinds of thoughts.
我同意这一点，因为我也有同样的想法。
I do have anticipatory exercise when I can't do it.
当我做不到的时候，我确实会进行预期练习。
I just got back from a week and a half in Paris, where I got to do a book launch of my last book, "Good Anxiety." I walked around a lot, but I did not do my exercise for that whole week and a half.
我刚从巴黎呆了一周半回来，在那里我要为我的上一本书《好焦虑》举办新书发布会。我走了很多地方，但整整一个半星期我都没有锻炼。
But there was a lot of stress because I had to do all these interviews in French.
但压力很大，因为我必须用法语进行所有这些采访。
So I gave myself a break.
所以我给自己放了个假。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you speak French?
你会说法语吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
I speak French.
我说法语。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I was going to say otherwise it would be really stressful.
我本来想说，不然的话压力会很大。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah, that would be really stressful.
是的，那真的会很有压力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Then I'd be really impressed.
那我真的会印象深刻。
Then I would definitely start exercising.
那我肯定会开始锻炼。
Actually, I would follow your morning routine to a T, but, okay, very impressive nonetheless.
事实上，我会严格遵循你早上的例行公事，但是，好吧，尽管如此，还是非常令人印象深刻。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
But I got back, and coming back this direction from Paris — I live in New York — is much easier, and so I was able to get up at a normal time the next day.
但我回来了，从巴黎这个方向回来——我住在纽约——要容易得多，所以第二天我能够在正常时间起床。
And that exercise session that first day, it's like, "Okay, I'm back in my home.
第一天的锻炼就像是，“好吧，我回到家了。
I'm back in my environment." And it felt so good.
我回到了我的环境中。”感觉很好。
It's like I wanted to come back, and I know it's because I worked up over years, now I could truthfully say seven days a week, but first it was four to five, then it was five to six.
就像我想回来一样，我知道这是因为我工作了多年，现在我可以诚实地说每周工作7天，但首先是四到五天，然后是五到六天。
Yeah, seven.
是的，七个。
But that includes a yoga day, or sometimes I have to do it for 10 minutes instead of 30 because I have to leave.
但这包括瑜伽日，或者有时我必须做 10 分钟而不是 30 分钟，因为我必须离开。
But that habit of you do that even for five minutes, you do either the weight 10-minute thing or five-minute thing or a stretch.
但是你的习惯是这样做，即使是五分钟，你要么做10分钟的举重动作，要么做5分钟的动作，要么做伸展运动。
That is a tiny habit.
这就是一个小习惯。
Is it somebody at Stanford that invented this idea of tiny habits?
是斯坦福大学的某个人发明了“小习惯”这一概念吗？
I thought it was.
我以为是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are a couple ...
有一对夫妇...
Well, we've got a number of people there and I apologize in advance to all the people I neglect in this statement, but I'm happy to ...
好吧，我们那里有很多人，我提前向所有我在本声明中忽略的人致歉，但我很高兴......
Put it in the comments, folks.
各位，请在评论中留言吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
BJ Fogg is there.
BJ 福格就在那里。
He's done-
他已经完成了——
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes, that's who I-
是的，这就是我——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, BJ's done really great work.
是的，BJ 做得非常出色。
And then James Clear wrote a book about habits and has a very popular newsletter about habits.
然后詹姆斯·克利尔写了一本关于习惯的书，并且有一本非常受欢迎的关于习惯的时事通讯。
We've done an episode about habits that covers some of their work and some of the more laboratory-ish — not ish, laboratory science peer-reviewed work on daily behaviors, also daily behaviors performed at roughly the same time of day.
我们做了一集关于习惯的节目，涵盖了他们的一些工作和一些更实验室化的——不是实验室科学同行评审的日常行为工作，以及在一天中大致同一时间进行的日常行为。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean one thing we know for sure is that the circadian system is part of our nervous system's way of anticipating when things will happen, not just what will happen.
我的意思是，我们确信的一件事是，昼夜节律系统是我们神经系统预测事情何时发生的方式的一部分，而不仅仅是预测将会发生的事情。
I'm telling you things you obviously know already, but for the audience.
我正在告诉你一些你显然已经知道的事情，但是是针对观众的。
Performing your exercise at roughly the same time each day will make it easier as opposed to just saying, "I'm going to do it seven days a week sometime today."
每天大约在同一时间进行锻炼会让锻炼变得更容易，而不是仅仅说“我要在今天某个时候每周锻炼 7 天”。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Right.
对。
That is hard.
那很难。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But of course, getting it done some time is better than not getting it done.
但当然，花一段时间完成它总比不完成它好。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, those are impressive effects, and I love that you're starting to look in populations that are a bit younger, not because some of these older populations aren't important, but I think that building good habits across one's entire life is really what it's about.
嗯，这些都是令人印象深刻的影响，我喜欢你开始关注年轻一点的人群，不是因为其中一些老年人不重要，而是我认为在一个人的一生中养成良好的习惯才是真正的意义所在。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As I always say, with anything related to longevity or offsetting an age-related decline, it's hard to know if things work because there's no within subject control.
正如我常说的，对于任何与长寿或抵消与年龄相关的衰退有关的事情，很难知道事情是否有效，因为没有受试者的控制范围。
But what we also know for sure is that you don't want to be the control experiment.
但我们也可以肯定的是，您不想成为对照实验。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You absolutely don't want to be the control experiment, especially for something that's purely behavioral.
你绝对不想成为对照实验，尤其是对于纯粹行为的实验。
I mean you're not talking about ingesting a particular supplement.
我的意思是你不是在谈论摄入某种特定的补充剂。
You're not talking about changing your diet in any way.
你并不是在谈论以任何方式改变你的饮食。
But I am curious.
但我很好奇。
Diet is a very barbed-wire topic on the internet — which diets, whether or not they work, et cetera.
饮食在互联网上是一个非常有争议的话题——哪种饮食、是否有效等等。
But in general, in any of these studies, do they evaluate whether or not people change their eating habits when they start to exercise more?
但总的来说，在这些研究中，他们是否评估人们开始更多锻炼时是否会改变饮食习惯？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
I think I've seen one study that controlled for that, but I feel for them because it's hard enough to get people to exercise at the level and at the time that you need for your study.
我想我见过一项对此进行控制的研究，但我对他们有同样的感觉，因为让人们在学习所需的水平和时间进行锻炼已经足够困难了。
If you also ask them, "Okay, fill out this survey to tell us exactly what you ate all day," they're going to say, "Forget you.
如果你还问他们，“好吧，填写这份调查，准确地告诉我们你一整天吃了什么，”他们会说，“忘了你吧。
I'm not joining your study." So it's a critical question.
我不会参加你的学习。”所以这是一个关键问题。
Again, there's only been one that I've seen, and the evidence was that diets got better, less processed foods when they did adhere to this exercise.
再说一次，我只见过一个，证据表明，当他们坚持这项练习时，饮食会变得更好，加工食品也会减少。
But a lot more information needs to be gathered in that realm.
但在该领域还需要收集更多信息。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
The second study that I wanted to share, unpublished, we're writing it up right now, is part two of that study that I just described, which was the low fit people.
我想分享的第二项研究尚未发表，我们现在正在写它，是我刚才描述的研究的第二部分，即低适应人群。
Next we move to mid fit people.
接下来我们转向中等健康的人。
Like what about us?
比如我们呢？
We're already exercising.
我们已经在锻炼了。
Am I going to benefit from increasing my exercise?
增加锻炼对我有好处吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
So here again, we collaborated with a great spin studio that had a whole bunch of mid fit people that, by our definition, were exercising two to three times a week on a regular basis.
因此，我们再次与一家出色的旋转工作室合作，该工作室拥有一大群中等健康的人，根据我们的定义，他们每周定期锻炼两到三次。
That's great.
那太棒了。
All you people out there that are doing that, you should know you're already benefiting your brain.
所有正在这样做的人，您应该知道您已经使您的大脑受益。
But our question was what if we invited them to exercise as much as they wanted at the spin studio for three months, from two to three times all the way up to seven times a week, and let's just see what happened.
但我们的问题是，如果我们邀请他们在动感单车工作室锻炼三个月，从两到三次一直到每周七次，想怎么锻炼就怎么锻炼，让我们看看会发生什么。
And the control group, we asked them not to change their exercise.
对于对照组，我们要求他们不要改变锻炼方式。
And so what we ended up with was a nice big array starting with mid fit people that exercise between, staying at two to three times a week all the way up to seven times a week.
所以我们最终得到了一个很好的大阵容，从中等健康的人开始，每周锻炼两到三次，一直到每周七次。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
The bottom line from that study is every drop of sweat counted, that is, the more you change and you increase your workout up to seven times a week, the better your mood was.
该研究的底线是计算每一滴汗水，也就是说，你的改变越多，每周锻炼次数增加到七次，你的心情就越好。
You had lower amounts of depression, anxiety, higher amounts of good affect and the better your hippocampal memory was with the more you worked out.
当你锻炼得越多时，你的抑郁、焦虑程度就会越低，良好的情绪就会越高，而且你的海马体记忆力就越好。
Again, this was for three months.
再说一遍，这已经是三个月了。
So I love that too, because it gives power to those of us that are regularly exercising and wondering, "Do I really need to, I mean is it really going to help me?" And the answer is yes.
所以我也喜欢它，因为它给我们这些经常锻炼并想知道“我真的需要吗，我的意思是它真的会对我有帮助吗？”的人提供力量。答案是肯定的。
I mean not all of us can exercise, go to a spin class seven times a week, but I love the message that our body is responsive to that, and you can get better hippocampal function, better overall baseline mood affect with a higher level, so it works for the mid fit people as well.
我的意思是，并非所有人都可以锻炼，每周上七次动感单车课程，但我喜欢这样的信息：我们的身体对此有反应，并且您可以获得更好的海马功能，更高水平的整体基线情绪影响更好，所以它也适用于中等健康的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Fantastic.
太棒了。
The more I learn from you, the more I'm starting to conceptualize the brain as an organ that is privileged in so many ways, has this unique blood-brain barrier, has this incredible quality of being able to predict things, and its job mainly is of course to predict things among other functions, of course, but that our brain isn't necessarily going to stay stable or get better over time.
我向你了解的越多，我就越开始将大脑概念化为一个在很多方面都享有特权的器官，具有独特的血脑屏障，具有能够预测事物的令人难以置信的品质，当然，它的工作主要是在其他功能中预测事物，但随着时间的推移，我们的大脑不一定会保持稳定或变得更好。
That it needs a signal, that it isn't sufficient to just say that we can't take it for granted, that our brain is actually an organ that requires a signal in order to maintain its own function.
它需要一个信号，仅仅说我们不能认为这是理所当然的是不够的，我们的大脑实际上是一个需要信号才能维持其自身功能的器官。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it sounds like enhanced blood flow in these pathways that you described earlier, these two pathways, are at least among the more critical signals.
听起来您之前描述的这些通路中的血流增强，这两条通路至少是更关键的信号之一。
I'm tempted now to move my frequency of cardiovascular exercise from, I confess it's about three days, 35 minutes lately, and it should be more, to daily.
我现在很想将心血管锻炼的频率从（我承认最近大约是三天 35 分钟，而且应该更多）改为每天一次。
There's something again really special about daily because it's nonnegotiable.
每天都有一些非常特别的东西，因为它是不可协商的。
You just do it.
你就这么做吧。
And it sounds like if one were to do higher intensity exercise in a spin class; I've never taken a spin class, but I've seen there are times when they're standing up on the bike and pedaling very hard, so that is included in these kinds of workouts, right?
听起来就像是在动感单车课上进行更高强度的锻炼；我从未参加过动感单车课程，但我见过有时他们会站在自行车上，用力踩踏板，所以这也包含在此类锻炼中，对吧？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
I mean that's what the instructor is doing.
我的意思是，这就是教练正在做的事情。
I cannot control ...
我无法控制...
We did monitor heart rate of all the subjects, and it was clearly, compared to the video Scrabble, it was highly significant.
我们确实监测了所有受试者的心率，很明显，与视频拼字游戏相比，这是非常显着的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I would hope so.
我希望如此。
I guess it depends on how intense that game of Scrabble is.
我想这取决于拼字游戏的激烈程度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Could we just briefly talk about mindset and affirmations?
我们能简单谈谈心态和肯定吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You've talked a bit before about affirmations, and, as you mentioned, the beautiful work of my colleague at Stanford Alia Crum, and we can summarize her work pretty simply, although we won't do it complete justice, but she's already been on the podcast.
你之前已经谈过一些关于肯定的话题，正如你提到的，我在斯坦福大学的同事 Alia Crum 的出色工作，我们可以非常简单地总结她的工作，尽管我们不会完全公正地做到这一点，但她已经上了播客。
Just to say that one's beliefs about a behavior also impact the outcomes of that behavior.
只是说，一个人对某种行为的信念也会影响该行为的结果。
If you learn a lot of true facts about stress being good for you, then you will experience stress as better for you than if you only focus on or learn about the negative effects of stress.
如果你了解到很多关于压力对你有益的真实事实，那么你会体验到压力对你来说比只关注或了解压力的负面影响更好。
If you learn about the positive effects of exercise, you actually derive greater benefit from exercise, believe it or not, its incredible effects, but they make sense when you understand what the brain is doing, which is a lot of this predictive coding, and mindsets don't seem as mysterious and woo anymore once you understand what the brain is really doing.
如果你了解了锻炼的积极作用，你实际上会从锻炼中获得更大的好处，不管你信不信，它的效果令人难以置信，但当你了解大脑在做什么时，它们就有意义了，这就是大量的预测编码，一旦你了解了大脑真正在做什么，心态就不再那么神秘和吸引人了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But what is, if any, the value of affirmation, of telling yourself something positive about yourself or of exercise on not the exercise itself but on mood, self-image, memory and brain function?
但是，如果有的话，肯定的价值是什么，告诉自己一些关于自己的积极的事情，或者锻炼的价值不是锻炼本身而是情绪、自我形象、记忆和大脑功能？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
So I looked into this because I am also a certified exercise instructor, and the form of exercise that I teach is called-
所以我研究了这个，因为我也是一名经过认证的运动教练，我教授的运动形式被称为-
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
...
...
A certified exercise instructor in the form of the exercise that I teach is called intenSati.
我教授的运动形式的认证运动教练称为 intenSati。
It's a form of exercise that was developed by this amazing instructor, Patricia Moreno.
这是由这位出色的教练帕特里夏·莫雷诺 (Patricia Moreno) 开发的一种锻炼形式。
And she combined physical movements from kickbox and dance and yoga and martial arts, with positive spoken affirmations.
她将跆拳道、舞蹈、瑜伽和武术的身体动作与积极的口头肯定结合起来。
So each move, if you're punching back and forth as you would do in a kickbox class, you don't just punch, you say something like, "I am strong now," which, every punch is associated with the word.
因此，如果你像在跆拳道课上那样来回打拳，那么你的每一个动作都不会只是打拳，而是会说“我现在很强了”之类的话，每一拳都与这个词相关联。
And you know, you can create your own series of affirmations with the moves that you put together.
你知道，你可以用你组合起来的动作来创造你自己的一系列肯定。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
The first time I did it, I just wandered into her class, I didn't know what it was, and I felt idiotic like, "I came into the wrong class, I don't want to come into this class." But then I saw they didn't care whether I thought they looked silly saying these ...
第一次的时候，我只是走进了她的班级，我不知道那是什么，我感觉自己很白痴，“我进错班级了，我不想进这个班级。”但后来我发现他们并不关心我是否认为他们说这些看起来很傻......
Not saying, yelling these affirmations out loud while doing the choreography at the same time.
不是说，而是在编舞的同时大声喊出这些肯定。
And then I tried it.
然后我尝试了一下。
Okay.
好的。
I didn't yell out.
我没有喊出来。
I kind of whispered it, at first.
一开始我有点低声说。
And then, by the end, I was really yelling it out.
然后，到最后，我真的大声喊出来了。
There's something about the declaration, using your own voice, of saying things that you don't often say to yourself like, "I'm strong, I'm inspired, I believe I will succeed," are all the kinds of affirmations you say.
用你自己的声音，说出一些你不常对自己说的话，比如“我很坚强，我受到鼓舞，我相信我会成功”，这是你所说的各种肯定。
And you walk out of that class, or I walked out of that class thinking, "I feel really good now.
然后你走出那堂课，或者我走出那堂课，心里想：“我现在感觉很好。
Man, I can't wait to come back to this class." Which is why I ultimately took teacher training to be able to teach that class.
伙计，我迫不及待地想回到这个班级。”这就是为什么我最终参加了教师培训以便能够教授该课程。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
And so, I started to look into what was known about affirmations, and they were never combined with physical activity, but it was clear that there was a literature showing that positive affirmations, saying them or reading them, could change mood in the same ways we're talking about Alia Crum's work.
因此，我开始研究人们对肯定言的了解，它们从未与身体活动相结合，但很明显，有文献表明，积极的肯定言，无论说出来还是读出来，都可以改变情绪，就像我们谈论阿莉亚·克拉姆的作品一样。
It's a belief.
这是一种信念。
Once you start saying these things, these are not difficult things to believe, but it's amazing how much you don't say these kinds of things to yourself or with your own voice.
一旦你开始说这些事情，这些都不难相信，但令人惊讶的是你没有对自己或用自己的声音说这些事情。
You might say them about somebody else.
你可能会谈论别人。
"Oh, you're strong, you're so smart." Do you say that about yourself?
“哦，你很坚强，你很聪明。”你是这么说你自己的吗？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
And that's the thing about the self-affirmations; it really gets you into a habit of saying good things about yourself.
这就是自我肯定的问题所在；它真的会让你养成说自己好话的习惯。
And then you start to realize, "Oh my God, I'm so mean to myself.
然后你开始意识到，“天啊，我对自己太刻薄了。
I have lots of negative thoughts going on about myself in my head." Which was part of the other reason why I loved this particular form of exercise.
我脑子里有很多关于自己的负面想法。”这是我喜欢这种特殊锻炼形式的另一个原因。
So, what you get in intenSati is the mood boost from the positive spoken affirmations, together with all the other brain and affect boosts that we've been talking about for this whole podcast, from the exercise, because it's a sweaty workout as well.
所以，你在 intenSati 中得到的是积极的口头肯定带来的情绪提升，以及我们在整个播客中讨论的所有其他大脑和影响的提升，来自锻炼，因为这也是一项出汗的锻炼。
So.
所以。
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 3 部分（共 4 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
Interesting.
有趣。
There's a book — I confess, I haven't read it, but I have had the pleasure of having a discussion with a psychologist, I believe he is at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor.
有本书——我承认，我还没读过，但我很高兴与一位心理学家进行了讨论，我相信他在安娜堡的密歇根大学。
Ethan Cross wrote a book called "Chatter," which focuses on the fact that so much of our inner dialogue is indeed negative.
伊森·克罗斯（Ethan Cross）写了一本名为《喋喋不休》的书，重点关注这样一个事实：我们内心的对话确实是消极的。
He certainly wasn't the first to point that out.
他当然不是第一个指出这一点的人。
But that explicit statements to counter that negative chatter, I believe, is one of the hallmarks of readjusting one's own not just internal reference frame, but actually self-image generally.
但我相信，针对负面言论的明确声明是重新调整自己的标志之一，不仅是内部参考框架，而且实际上是总体上的自我形象。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's a fascinating and, I think, a very important area of psychology and neuroscience.
我认为这是心理学和神经科学的一个令人着迷且非常重要的领域。
And I acknowledge this, we're talking about this too, laboratory neuroscientists who record from neurons and label neurons and look at stuff down the microscope, we are now deep in the territory, in the deep water of what some of our colleagues, and people who think about neuroscience, would consider really out there on the subjective edges.
我承认这一点，我们也在谈论这一点，实验室神经科学家从神经元记录并标记神经元并在显微镜下观察东西，我们现在正处于这个领域的深处，处于我们的一些同事和思考神经科学的人们真正认为处于主观边缘的深水区。
And yet, I think, it's worth pointing out that the brain does all these things.
然而，我认为，值得指出的是，大脑做了所有这些事情。
It's responsible for simple reflexes and motor behaviors, but also high-level conceptual ideas about the universe and what it might look like in 10 years or a hundred years or a thousand years.
它负责简单的反射和运动行为，但也负责关于宇宙的高级概念想法以及它在十年、一百年或一千年后可能会是什么样子。
But also, high-level conceptual understanding of who we are and what we are about.
而且，对我们是谁以及我们是什么的高层次概念理解。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so, even though it might seem a little bit out on the fringes, dare I say, I think that these are some of the more important, untread landscapes of neuroscience.
因此，尽管它看起来有点边缘化，但我敢说，我认为这些是神经科学中一些更重要的、未开发的领域。
And I just want to acknowledge my appreciation for the fact that ...
我只是想表达我对以下事实的感激之情：
I'm going to connect the dots here and say, you went from somebody who didn't exercise, who went on this rafting trip, that discovered exercise and its benefits for your grant writing, and then on and on and on, and then became a certified-
我要把这里的各个点联系起来，说，你从一个不锻炼的人开始，参加了这次漂流旅行，发现了锻炼及其对你的资助写作的好处，然后一直不断，然后成为一名经过认证的——
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Exercise instructor.
运动教练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Instructor.
导师。
So, you don't do anything halfway either, as it's clear.
所以，很明显，你也不能半途而废。
I'd like to touch on something you mentioned earlier, but we haven't dove into at all in any depth, which is meditation.
我想谈谈你之前提到的一些事情，但我们还没有深入探讨，那就是冥想。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You mentioned this tea meditation.
你提到了茶禅。
You had a publication recently on a 10-minute meditation?
您最近发表了一篇关于 10 分钟冥想的出版物？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe you could tell us about this 10-minute meditation?
也许你可以告诉我们这个 10 分钟的冥想？
It seems like such a tractable amount of time.
这似乎是一段很容易处理的时间。
And then, if you would maybe tell us a little bit about the tea meditation?
然后，您能否告诉我们一些关于茶冥想的信息？
But it sounds like you've discovered a close to minimum threshold of meditation that can really benefit us, so maybe tell us about that study.
但听起来你已经发现了一个接近最低限度的冥想阈值，这可以真正使我们受益，所以也许可以告诉我们有关这项研究的信息。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
So, the study was, as you very sweetly pointed out, a very practical study, just 10 minutes, not 30 minutes, not an hour meditation.
因此，正如您非常亲切地指出的那样，这项研究是一项非常实用的研究，只需 10 分钟，而不是 30 分钟，也不是一个小时的冥想。
That's too hard.
那太难了。
Ten minutes guided meditation.
十分钟引导冥想。
They logged into a site, so we can tell that they logged in, and they listened to a ...
他们登录了一个网站，所以我们可以知道他们登录了，并且他们听了......
It's a body scan, very basic, but easy-to-follow meditation, and we asked them to do it.
这是一种身体扫描，非常基本，但易于遵循的冥想，我们要求他们这样做。
How often?
多常？
Daily.
日常的。
Seven days a week, just 10 minutes a day.
每周 7 天，每天只需 10 分钟。
And the most shocking thing about this study is that we got more adhesion, adherence, to the 10-minute-daily meditation than the 10-minute-daily podcast listening, which was our control.
这项研究最令人震惊的事情是，我们对每天 10 分钟的冥想比每天听 10 分钟的播客有更多的坚持，这是我们的对照。
So, the highest retention rate I've ever gotten in any ...
所以，我所获得的最高保留率...
this kind of study that I've done, exercise or meditation; they wanted to do it, 10 minutes a day.
我做过的这种学习、锻炼或冥想；他们想这样做，每天 10 分钟。
It was great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm going to just start leading meditations for three hours, as opposed to doing three-hour podcasts.
我将开始进行三个小时的冥想，而不是做三个小时的播客。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
So, we looked at cognitive effects before and after this, it was eight weeks of daily ...
所以，我们观察了在此之前和之后的认知影响，这是八周的每天......
It was actually 12-minute meditation, 12 minutes of body-scan meditation.
这实际上是12分钟的冥想，12分钟的身体扫描冥想。
And what we found was significant decreases in stress response.
我们发现压力反应显着降低。
We did the stress test to see how you responded to an unexpected stressful situation.
我们进行了压力测试，看看您如何应对意外的压力情况。
The meditators did much better, their mood was better, and their cognitive performance was also better.
冥想者的表现要好得多，他们的情绪更好，他们的认知表现也更好。
And this was my first little foray into meditation after I had started my personal tea meditation, that really shifted my relationship with meditation.
这是我开始个人茶冥想后第一次尝试冥想，这确实改变了我与冥想的关系。
But it is consistent with many other studies showing the beneficial effects of meditation.
但这与许多其他显示冥想有益效果的研究是一致的。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
But the unique thing was, we tried to make it doable that many, many people out there could actually follow this typical regimen, and so we're continuing that.
但独特之处在于，我们试图让许多人能够真正遵循这种典型的养生法，所以我们正在继续这样做。
In fact, my research in my lab right now is all about those doable, short things that NYU college students will do, not just at the beginning of the semester, but at the end of the semester, when the stress and anxiety levels are now at record-breaking high levels, and they need something to bring that level down so that they could show their professors what their brains can actually do.
事实上，我现在在实验室的研究都是关于纽约大学大学生会做的那些可行的、简短的事情，不仅在学期开始时，而且在学期末，当压力和焦虑水平现在达到破纪录的高水平时，他们需要一些东西来降低这种水平，以便他们可以向教授展示他们的大脑实际上可以做什么。
And so it includes very short meditations, sound meditations, visual meditations, walking, things that any college student, but we're obviously focused on NYU students, will do.
因此，它包括非常短的冥想、声音冥想、视觉冥想、步行，任何大学生（但我们显然专注于纽约大学的学生）都会做的事情。
I want to get at graduation rates, I want to get at class performance with these kinds of interventions.
我想通过这些干预措施来提高毕业率和课堂表现。
But it started with that study that I just described — meditation.
但这是从我刚才描述的那项研究开始的——冥想。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's great.
太好了。
If you would, and here's where we can highlight this again as some highly educated speculation that's coming from you.
如果您愿意的话，我们可以在这里再次强调这一点，这是您提出的一些受过良好教育的猜测。
What do you think is going on during meditation?
你认为冥想期间发生了什么？
I mean, a body scan involves a kind of interoceptive awareness.
我的意思是，身体扫描涉及一种内感受意识。
Interoception, of course, being in attention to what's going on on the surface of and within the confines of our skin, as opposed to the outside world.
当然，内感受关注的是我们皮肤表面和内部发生的事情，而不是外部世界。
Drawing our attention to anything inside us or outside us involves forebrain function, prefrontal cortex, presumably, and other things.
将我们的注意力吸引到我们内部或外部的任何事物上，可能涉及前脑功能、前额叶皮层和其他事物。
Typically, eyes are closed, typically it's relaxing.
通常，眼睛是闭着的，通常是放松的。
So there are a lot of variables that could be feeding into a number of different effects.
因此，有很多变量可能会产生许多不同的影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But as a neuroscientist, what do you think is going on that this period of a self-induced, somewhat unusual state, what do you think is going on in terms of network behavior and networks within the brain, that it can have these long-term effects?
但作为一名神经科学家，您认为这段自我诱发的、有些不寻常的状态发生了什么，您认为大脑内的网络行为和网络发生了什么，它可以产生这些长期影响？
We got to some of the ones relate downstream of exercise, and I think there's so much evidence, I know there's so much evidence that meditation is beneficial.
我们找到了一些与运动下游相关的问题，我认为有很多证据，我知道有很多证据表明冥想是有益的。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How do you think it's working?
你认为它运作得怎么样？
Or what do you think it's doing?
或者你认为它在做什么？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
I think that one of the most important things that gets worked when we are doing a simple 10-minute or 12-minute body-scan meditation regularly, this 10 minutes a day, 12 minutes a day, is the habit building and the practice of focusing on the present moment.
我认为，当我们定期进行简单的 10 分钟或 12 分钟身体扫描冥想（每天 10 分钟、每天 12 分钟）时，最重要的事情之一就是养成习惯并练习专注于当下。
I think that is very hard for us modern humans to do, because I'm worrying about the thing that's due at the end of the week that I need to do, and how many hours am I going to have to be able to do that?
我认为这对我们现代人来说很难做到，因为我担心这周结束时我需要做的事情，以及我需要多少小时才能做到这一点？
Or I'm worried about whatever ...
或者我担心什么...
the email that wasn't as polite as it should be that I sent, and what were the repercussions for that?
我发送的电子邮件没有应有的礼貌，这会产生什么影响？
Instead of focusing on this moment, which is fun.
而不是专注于这一刻，这很有趣。
I get to talk to you.
我得和你谈谈。
It's a beautiful day outside.
外面真是美好的一天。
I'm feeling good at this moment.
此刻我感觉很好。
And I think that all of the meditative practices that I've done, and this one also, whether you know it or not, is getting you to focus on this moment.
我认为我所做的所有冥想练习，以及这一次，无论你是否知道，都会让你专注于这一刻。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
And I think it's even more important in this day and age, where anxiety levels, and the next variant might come out, and what are the repercussions there?
我认为在当今时代，这一点更为重要，因为焦虑水平和下一个变体可能会出现，这会产生什么影响？
And I have a mother who's older and she's more susceptible to it, and there's a war, and what's going to happen there?
我的母亲年纪大了，她更容易受到战争的影响，而且发生了战争，那里会发生什么？
Those are all future possibilities.
这些都是未来的可能性。
And we should be worried about that.
我们应该对此感到担心。
That is a possibility, you need to plan for that.
这是一种可能性，你需要为此做好计划。
But you also need to focus on this moment, right now.
但你也需要关注此时此刻。
I'm healthy.
我很健康。
I can breathe.
我可以呼吸了。
I get to have this interesting conversation in this moment.
此时此刻我可以进行这次有趣的对话。
If I start thinking about other things, then it takes away from this moment.
如果我开始思考其他事情，那么这一刻就会消失。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Do I know what circuits are involved?
我知道涉及哪些电路吗？
Not exactly.
不完全是。
That is not my area.
那不是我的领域。
I think there are some studies that have focused on that present moment activity.
我认为有些研究关注的是当下的活动。
But that is what I think is most important about the practice of meditation, or one of the important things, that calms us down.
但这是我认为冥想练习最重要的一点，或者说最重要的事情之一，它能让我们平静下来。
Because if you know how to do that, that gives you this powerful tool for the rest of your day.
因为如果您知道如何做到这一点，那么您将在接下来的一天中获得这个强大的工具。
You're not locked into that fearful future thinking that so many of us have, or that reliving of the terrible past, but you could enjoy the present moment.
你不会像我们很多人那样陷入对未来的恐惧，也不会重温可怕的过去，但你可以享受当下。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, That really resonates.
是的，这确实引起了共鸣。
I think, going back to the earlier part of our conversation, the hippocampus has this incredible storage capacity and ability to set context about past, present, and future.
我认为，回到我们谈话的前面部分，海马体具有令人难以置信的存储容量和设定过去、现在和未来背景的能力。
And that's a beautiful thing because, as much as I like to think he had some semblance of a healthy life, none of us want to be H.M., none of us want to be in the position of not being able to form new memories and have no context to the past or the present.
这是一件美好的事情，因为尽管我喜欢认为他过着健康的生活，但我们谁都不想成为 H.M.，我们谁都不想处于无法形成新记忆、对过去或现在没有背景的境地。
So, we should all be grateful that our hippocampus can draw from past, present, and future in various combinations.
因此，我们都应该庆幸我们的海马体能够以各种组合方式汲取过去、现在和未来的经验。
And we should support it through the daily exercise and other habits, let's call them habits, so that people make them habits, and that you've highlighted.
我们应该通过日常锻炼和其他习惯来支持它，让我们称之为习惯，以便人们养成习惯，正如您所强调的那样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But if we are not deliberately anchoring within past, present, and future, according to what we need, and we're just shuffling between past, present, and future, that is not a good way to live; it's not effective.
但如果我们不根据自己的需要，刻意地锚定在过去、现在和未来，而只是在过去、现在和未来之间徘徊，那就不是一种好的生活方式；这没有效果。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It sounds like meditation can really help us go to the right stacks ...
听起来冥想确实可以帮助我们找到正确的堆栈......
I guess people don't go to libraries anymore, but in the old days, you needed to go to the right location in the library.
我想人们不再去图书馆了，但在过去，你需要去图书馆的正确位置。
You actually can't get distracted by the books that you're interested in, if you need to go just reflexively; you need to go study a particular topic, so that's how I think about it.
事实上，如果你需要本能地阅读，你就不可能因为你感兴趣的书而分心。你需要去研究一个特定的主题，所以这就是我的想法。
It makes us more linear, perhaps, in our way of being.
也许，它使我们的存在方式更加线性。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
I think so.
我想是的。
And it actually counteracts, not that I'm against technology, but having our phones and being connected to every good and bad thing going on in the world today is incredibly distracting and takes you away from the present moment, virtually 24 hours a day.
事实上，这并不是说我反对科技，而是拥有我们的手机并与当今世界上发生的每一件好事和坏事联系在一起，这会令人难以置信地分散注意力，让你几乎每天 24 小时都无法专注于当下。
And so we have to work extra hard, right now, compared to in the '40s, when we didn't have all this technology or at the same level.
因此，与 20 世纪 40 年代相比，我们现在必须加倍努力，当时我们还没有所有这些技术或处于同一水平。
So, it becomes an even more important practice, I think, for everyday life.
因此，我认为，对于日常生活来说，它变得更加重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or even 10, 15 years ago, it felt like smartphones weren't as intrusive.
甚至在 10、15 年前，人们感觉智能手机还没有那么具有侵入性。
One final question, and maybe a request?
最后一个问题，也许是一个请求？
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As the new incoming Dean of the College of Letters and Sciences ...
作为新上任的文理学院院长...
and I must say, I'm delighted, thrilled actually, to hear that a lot of the practices that we've been discussing today and that you've pioneered are going to be incorporated into undergraduate education.
我必须说，听到我们今天讨论的以及您开创的许多实践将被纳入本科教育中，我真的很高兴，很兴奋。
I predict, and I'd be willing to wager that that will become a template for how universities, and nonuniversity systems, should function.
我预测，并且我愿意打赌，这将成为大学和非大学系统如何运作的模板。
Because if indeed, and it is true that, there's this incredible relationship between physical movement and mental deliberate practices and performance, any corporation, school, household, would be crazy, would be self-limiting, and even self-destructive to not incorporate those.
因为如果身体运动与精神刻意练习和表现之间确实存在这种令人难以置信的关系，而且确实如此，那么任何公司、学校、家庭如果不将这些纳入其中，就会变得疯狂，将会自我限制，甚至自我毁灭。
I'm so happy that you're going to do this and collect data.
我很高兴您要这样做并收集数据。
Please, please, we'll have to touch back with you and hear what comes to that.
拜托，拜托，我们必须与您联系并听听结果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But one of the main things that I hear so much about today are issues with attention.
但我今天经常听到的主要问题之一是注意力问题。
And we haven't talked about attention; we've mainly been talking about memory and cognition.
我们还没有讨论注意力；我们主要讨论的是记忆和认知。
But you know a lot about attention.
但你对注意力了解很多。
And here I'm not being disparaging.
在这里我并不是在贬低。
I think people have done what I'm about to say as a consequence of need and lack of other resources.
我认为人们之所以做了我接下来要说的事情，是因为需要和缺乏其他资源。
There's an immense amount of Adderall use, Ritalin use, modafinil use and caffeine abuse.
人们大量使用阿得拉、利他林、莫达非尼和咖啡因滥用。
Now, I happen to like caffeine.
现在，我碰巧喜欢咖啡因。
I don't use the other compounds I described.
我不使用我描述的其他化合物。
But it's just incredible to me how the data on this are.
但对我来说，这方面的数据令人难以置信。
..
..
A colleague of mine at Stanford claims that something like two-thirds or more of college students use these without prescription for ADHD.
我在斯坦福大学的一位同事声称，大约三分之二或更多的大学生在没有处方的情况下使用这些药物来治疗多动症。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What can we expect, in terms of the effects of regular exercise on attention?
就定期锻炼对注意力的影响而言，我们可以期待什么？
And are there any other things besides exercise and meditation that you would like to see people do in terms of trying to increase their powers of attention?
除了锻炼和冥想之外，您还希望人们做些什么来提高注意力？
Because I think the ability to focus and attend is really the distinguishing feature between those that will succeed in any endeavor and those that won't.
因为我认为专注和专注的能力确实是那些在任何努力中都会成功的人和那些不会成功的人之间的区别特征。
And that's a scary thing for a lot of people to hear, because a lot of people think they have ADHD.
这对很多人来说都是一件可怕的事情，因为很多人认为自己患有多动症。
They may, they may not.
他们可能会，也可能不会。
But I bet that a number of students at both Stanford and NYU feel challenged with holding their attention to the thing that they need to hold their attention to.
但我敢打赌，斯坦福大学和纽约大学的许多学生都感到很难将注意力集中在他们需要集中注意力的事情上。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Yeah.
是的。
So I would say the top three tools that everybody right this minute, today, can use to up their capacity to attend, where they want to include exercise, for the reasons we've talked about, it has a direct effect on functioning of the prefrontal cortex.
所以我想说，今天每个人都可以使用三个最重要的工具来提高他们的参与能力，他们想要包括锻炼，出于我们已经讨论过的原因，它对前额皮质的功能有直接影响。
Meditation, also clear clinical studies showing improved ability to focus, and particularly focus on the present moment.
冥想以及明确的临床研究表明，注意力的能力得到提高，尤其是关注当下的能力。
And the third has to be sleep.
第三个必须是睡眠。
Out of the three, it is the most physiological.
在这三者中，它是最具生理性的。
I mean, I could live my whole life without meditating one minute.
我的意思是，我可以一辈子不冥想。
Could I survive without sleep?
不睡觉我还能活下去吗？
No. None of us could.
不，我们谁也做不到。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
So it's more basic physiological, but it is so important for all core cognitive functions, including attention, including creativity, including just good basic brain function.
所以它是更基本的生理功能，但它对于所有核心认知功能非常重要，包括注意力，包括创造力，包括良好的基本大脑功能。
That is why it's so critical to get that information, that basic neuroscience information, into the heads of these students that are trying their best to show us how their brains work, but being hampered because they're not moving enough, they're not meditating, and there's all these distracting things that they include in their lives.
这就是为什么让这些信息、基本的神经科学信息进入这些学生的头脑是如此重要，他们正在尽最大努力向我们展示他们的大脑是如何工作的，但由于他们运动不够，他们没有冥想，以及他们生活中的所有这些分散注意力的事情而受到阻碍。
Some of which, a little bit is good, but 24 hours a day on your phone and linked in, not LinkedIn, but linked to your phone, is damaging to your attention.
其中一些，一点点是好的，但是一天 24 小时在你的手机上链接，不是 LinkedIn，而是链接到你的手机，会损害你的注意力。
So exercise, meditation, sleep can help you learn, retain, and perform better than if you do not have these three things in your life.
因此，与生活中没有这三件事相比，锻炼、冥想、睡眠可以帮助你更好地学习、记忆和表现。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wonderful.
太棒了。
Music to my ears.
音乐传到我耳边。
And also, either very low cost or zero cost, considering that the exercise doesn't require a class.
而且，考虑到该练习不需要上课，成本要么非常低，要么为零。
One could use the freely available resource of gravity to do jumping jacks or burpees or pushups, or whatever, or sit ups or all of those combinations.
人们可以利用免费提供的重力资源来做开合跳、立卧撑跳、俯卧撑等，或者仰卧起坐或所有这些组合。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
And don't forget YouTube, the freely accessible millions of YouTube videos, if you don't want to do your jumping jacks by yourself.
如果您不想自己做开合跳，请不要忘记 YouTube，可以免费访问数以百万计的 YouTube 视频。
I always say this.
我总是这么说。
I talk about breath meditation from my book "Good Anxiety," and if you don't like the one that I suggest, there's only about a million more on YouTube with ratings from one star to five stars.
我在《好焦虑》一书中谈到了呼吸冥想，如果你不喜欢我建议的呼吸冥想，YouTube 上还有大约 100 万个评分从一星到五星的冥想。
So, use that resource.
因此，请使用该资源。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It is a wonderful resource.
这是一个很棒的资源。
And you are an amazing resource.
你是一个了不起的资源。
Wendy, thank you so much for coming here today to have this discussion and share your knowledge about not just existing data, but new data coming out soon.
Wendy，非常感谢您今天来到这里进行讨论并分享您的知识，不仅涉及现有数据，还涉及即将推出的新数据。
And for your leadership in the university system, for your leadership in public education, for the decades of important work on memory and neural circuitry, which we got to learn about today as well.
感谢您在大学系统中的领导力，感谢您在公共教育中的领导力，感谢您数十年来在记忆和神经回路方面的重要工作，我们今天也必须了解这些工作。
Thank you ever so much.
非常感谢你。
Wendy Suzuki:
铃木温迪：
Thank you, Andrew.
谢谢你，安德鲁。
Fun conversation.
有趣的谈话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me today for my discussion about learning and memory, and how to get better at learning and remembering, with Dr. Wendy Suzuki.
感谢您今天与温迪·铃木博士一起讨论学习和记忆，以及如何更好地学习和记忆。
If you'd like to learn more about Dr. Suzuki's work, you can go to wendysuzuki.com.
如果您想了解更多有关铃木博士的工作，可以访问wendysuzuki.com。
There you will also find titles and links to her popular books, as well as her social media handles.
在那里您还可以找到她的热门书籍的标题和链接，以及她的社交媒体账号。
We've also placed those in the show note captions.
我们还将它们放置在节目注释标题中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to us on YouTube; that's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢这个播客，请在 YouTube 上订阅我们；这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on Spotify and or Apple.
此外，请在 Spotify 和/或 Apple 上订阅播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。
If you have suggestions about guests or topics that you'd like us to cover on the Huberman Lab podcast or you'd like to give us feedback of any kind, please leave that in the comment section on YouTube.
如果您对希望我们在 Huberman Lab 播客上报道的嘉宾或主题有任何建议，或者您想向我们提供任何类型的反馈，请在 YouTube 的评论部分留言。
That's the best place to give us feedback.
这是向我们提供反馈的最佳地点。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning of today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
We also have a Patreon, it's patreon.com/andrew huberman, and there you can support the podcast at any level that you like.
我们还有一个 Patreon，网址为 patreon.com/andrew huberman，您可以在那里支持您喜欢的任何级别的播客。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
On many episodes of the Huberman Lab podcast, we discuss supplements.
在休伯曼实验室播客的许多剧集中，我们讨论了补充剂。
While supplements are certainly not necessary for everybody, many people derive tremendous benefit from them for things like accelerating the transition into sleep and getting better, deeper sleep, as well as enhancing focus and learning and other aspects of human performance and health.
虽然补充剂肯定不是每个人都需要的，但许多人从它们中获得了巨大的好处，例如加速进入睡眠的过渡，获得更好、更深的睡眠，以及增强注意力和学习以及人类表现和健康的其他方面。
We're excited to announce that we've partnered with Momentous supplements.
我们很高兴地宣布我们已与 Momentous 补充剂合作。
The reason we partnered with Momentous is severalfold.
我们与 Momentous 合作的原因有多个。
First of all, we wanted to have one location where Huberman Lab podcast listeners could go in order to find all the supplements that we talk about, and to find those in a form where they could systematically try one or the other.
首先，我们希望有一个地方，Huberman Lab 播客听众可以去那里找到我们谈论的所有补充剂，并找到他们可以系统地尝试其中一种的形式。
This is a real issue in the supplement industry.
这是补充剂行业的一个现实问题。
A lot of supplement brands out there combine different ingredients in ways that don't really allow you to pinpoint exactly what you need and what you don't need.
许多补充剂品牌以不同的方式组合不同的成分，但实际上并不能让您准确地确定您需要什么和不需要什么。
So, getting supplements that have low doses, or just the minimal effective dose of particular ingredients, and being able to mix and match those ingredients yourself and really establish what's best for you, is really key.
因此，获得低剂量或特定成分的最低有效剂量的补充剂，并能够自己混合和匹配这些成分并真正确定什么最适合你，是非常关键的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In addition, we came to realize that a lot of our listeners want supplements, but they reside outside of the United States.
此外，我们开始意识到，我们的许多听众都想要补充品，但他们居住在美国境外。
So, we're pleased to tell you that Momentous ships both within the U.S. and internationally.
因此，我们很高兴地告诉您，《Momentous》在美国境内和国际范围内均有销售。
And of course, Momentous supplements are of the very highest quality ingredients, and the precision of the amounts of those ingredients is tightly regulated.
当然，Momentous 补充剂采用最优质的成分，并且这些成分的含量精确度受到严格控制。
If you're interested in Momentous supplements, the catalog of supplements related to the Huberman Lab podcast are growing all the time.
如果您对重要的补充品感兴趣，与 Huberman Lab 播客相关的补充品目录一直在增长。
A good number of them are already there.
他们中的很多人已经在那里了。
You can go to livemomentous.com/huberman in order to find them.
您可以访问 livemomentous.com/huberman 来查找它们。
And there will be additional supplements added to that site as we go forward.
随着我们的进展，该网站还会添加其他补充内容。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're not already following Huberman Lab on Twitter and Instagram, I post neuroscience and other science-related information and tools on a regular basis.
如果您还没有在 Twitter 和 Instagram 上关注 Huberman Lab，我会定期发布神经科学和其他科学相关的信息和工具。
Some of that information overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but a lot of it is distinct from the information contained on the Huberman Lab podcast.
其中一些信息与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中很多信息与胡伯曼实验室播客中包含的信息不同。
So again, that's Huberman Lab on Instagram and Huberman Lab on Twitter.
再说一遍，这是 Instagram 上的 Huberman Lab 和 Twitter 上的 Huberman Lab。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We also have a Neural Network Newsletter.
我们还有神经网络通讯。
What that is is a monthly newsletter in which I distill critical points from different podcast episodes, provide links to useful resources.
这是一份每月通讯，我从不同的播客剧集中提取关键点，提供有用资源的链接。
If you want to sign up for that newsletter — I should mention it is zero cost and we do not share your email with anybody, and we have a very clear privacy policy posted at hubermanlab.com — just go to hubermanlab.com, click on the menu, you'll see the Neural Network newsletter.
如果您想订阅该时事通讯 - 我应该提到它是零成本，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件，并且我们在 hubermanlab.com 上发布了非常明确的隐私政策 - 只需访问 hubermanlab.com，单击菜单，您就会看到神经网络时事通讯。
You can also look at examples of newsletters without having to sign up, to make sure that you actually do want to sign up.
您还可以查看时事通讯的示例，而无需注册，以确保您确实想要注册。
But if you are interested, the signup is there.
但如果您有兴趣，可以注册。
Very easy, and you can receive our monthly newsletter.
非常简单，您就可以收到我们的每月通讯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So once again, thank you for joining me today for our voyage into the neuroscience of learning and memory and tools to get better at learning and memory.
再次感谢您今天与我一起探索学习和记忆的神经科学以及改善学习和记忆的工具。
And as always, thank you for your interest in science.
一如既往，感谢您对科学的兴趣。
PART 4 OF 4 ENDS
第 4 部分（共 4 部分）结束