Dr. Stacy Sims: Female-Specific Exercise & Nutrition for Health, Performance & Longevity

Andrew Huberman: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

Andrew Huberman：欢迎来到 Huberman 实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

My guest today is Dr. Stacy Sims.

今天我的客人是史黛西·西姆斯博士。

Dr. Stacy Sims is an exercise physiologist and a nutrition scientist and a world expert in all things training and nutrition specifically for women.

Stacy Sims 博士是一位运动生理学家和营养科学家，也是专门针对女性的所有训练和营养领域的世界专家。

In addition to working at Stanford and with numerous professional athletic teams, Dr. Sims has authored more than 100 peer-reviewed studies on exercise physiology.

除了在斯坦福大学和众多专业运动队工作之外，Sims 博士还撰写了 100 多篇经过同行评审的运动生理学研究。

She has not only evaluated existing protocols for nutrition and fitness that are specific to women versus men, but she has also developed many new protocols that are now in practice with professional sports teams, and that can also serve people who are generally interested in fitness and longevity, and in doing so, the general public.

她不仅评估了针对女性与男性的现有营养和健身方案，而且还制定了许多新方案，目前已在专业运动队中实践，并且还可以为那些普遍对健身和长寿感兴趣的人以及普通大众提供服务。

The tools that Dr. Sims shares with us today are applicable to fitness, to changing your body composition and to overall health.

西姆斯博士今天与我们分享的工具适用于健身、改变身体成分和整体健康。

Today, we discuss how hormones and hormone cycles impact nutrition and fitness needs, specifically in women of different ages.

今天，我们讨论激素和激素周期如何影响营养和健身需求，特别是不同年龄段的女性。

We, of course, discuss the menstrual cycle, perimenopause and menopause, but also female-specific nutrition and training as it relates to things independent of hormones.

当然，我们讨论月经周期、围绝经期和更年期，但也讨论女性特有的营养和训练，因为它与独立于激素的事物有关。

For instance, we evaluate the evidence that women may not want to train fasted and the reasons for that.

例如，我们评估了女性可能不想禁食训练的证据及其原因。

We talk about how training might vary according to different phases of the menstrual cycle, and we discuss how women can design nutrition and training programs that are optimized for their specific needs, not just because they are women, but because they are women of a particular stage of life and women with particular goals.

我们讨论训练如何根据月经周期的不同阶段而变化，我们讨论女性如何设计针对其特定需求优化的营养和训练计划，不仅因为她们是女性，而且因为她们是处于特定人生阶段的女性和具有特定目标的女性。

As you'll soon see, Dr. Sims is exquisitely skilled at explaining the human universals of nutrition and training, that is, the things that do not differ between men and women and their needs in terms of nutrition and training.

正如您很快就会看到的那样，西姆斯博士非常擅长解释人类营养和训练的普遍性，即男性和女性之间没有区别的事情以及他们在营养和训练方面的需求。

But she is also exquisitely skilled at highlighting the data showing that there are specific areas of nutrition and fitness for which women and men differ, and women have specific needs.

但她也擅长强调数据表明，女性和男性在营养和健身的特定领域存在差异，并且女性有特定的需求。

So today, you will learn what those are, and you will learn how to apply those specific protocols such that by the end of today's episode, you will be armed with a tremendous amount of new knowledge about the biological mechanisms and the specific dos and do nots that can guide you towards your female-specific health and fitness goals.

所以今天，您将了解这些是什么，并且您将学习如何应用这些特定协议，以便在今天的节目结束时，您将掌握大量有关生物机制和特定注意事项的新知识，这些知识可以指导您实现女性特定的健康和健身目标。

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。

In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。

Our first sponsor is Maui Nui Venison.

我们的第一个赞助商是 Maui Nui Venison。

Maui Nui Venison is the most nutrient-dense and delicious red meat available.

毛伊努伊鹿肉是营养最丰富、最美味的红肉。

I've spoken many times before on this and other podcasts, and with several expert guests on this podcast, about the fact that most of us should be seeking to get about 1 gram of high-quality protein per pound of body weight every day.

我之前曾多次在这个播客和其他播客上，以及在这个播客上与几位专家嘉宾谈论过这样一个事实：我们大多数人应该寻求每天每磅体重获取约 1 克的优质蛋白质。

Not only does that protein provide critical building blocks for things like muscle repair and synthesis, but also for overall metabolism and health.

这种蛋白质不仅为肌肉修复和合成等提供了关键的组成部分，而且还为整体新陈代谢和健康提供了关键的组成部分。

Maui Nui Venison has an extremely high-quality protein per calorie ratio so that you can get that 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight easily and without ingesting an excess of calories.

Maui Nui 鹿肉具有极高品质的蛋白质每卡路里比例，因此您可以轻松获得每磅体重 1 克的蛋白质，而无需摄入过多的卡路里。

Also, Maui Nui Venison is absolutely delicious.

另外，茂宜岛鹿肉绝对美味。

I love their venison steaks, their ground venison, their bone broths, and their jerky, which is extremely convenient when you're traveling.

我喜欢他们的鹿肉排、鹿肉末、骨汤和肉干，这在旅行时非常方便。

Those Maui Nui Venison jerky sticks have 10 grams of high-quality protein per stick at just 55 calories.

这些 Maui Nui 鹿肉干棒每棒含有 10 克优质蛋白质，热量仅为 55 卡路里。

While Maui Nui offers the highest quality meat available, their supplies are limited.

虽然毛伊努伊岛提供最优质的肉类，但供应有限。

Responsible management of the axis deer population on the island of Maui means that they will not go beyond harvest capacity, so signing up for a membership is the best way to ensure access to their high-quality meat.

对毛伊岛上的轴鹿种群进行负责任的管理意味着它们不会超出收获能力，因此注册成为会员是确保获得其高品质肉类的最佳方式。

If you'd like to try Maui Nui Venison, you can go to mauinuivenison.com/huberman to get 20% off your membership or first order.

如果您想尝试 Maui Nui 鹿肉，您可以访问 mauinuivenison.com/huberman 享受会员资格或首次订单 20% 的折扣。

Again, that's mauinuivenison.com/huberman.

同样，这是 mauinuivenison.com/huberman。

Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep.

今天的节目也是八觉给我们带来的。

Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating and sleep-tracking capacity.

八睡眠公司生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能的智能床垫套。

I've spoken many times before on this podcast about the critical need for us to get adequate amounts of quality sleep each night.

我之前曾在这个播客中多次谈到我们每晚获得充足的优质睡眠的迫切需要。

One of the best ways to ensure a great night's sleep is to control the temperature of your sleeping environment.

确保一夜好眠的最佳方法之一是控制睡眠环境的温度。

And that's because in order to fall and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about one to three degrees.

这是因为为了入睡并保持深度睡眠，您的体温实际上必须下降约一到三度。

And in order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature has to increase by about one to three degrees.

为了醒来时感觉神清气爽、精力充沛，您的体温必须升高约一到三度。

Eight Sleep makes it incredibly easy to control the temperature of your sleeping environment by allowing you to program the temperature of your mattress cover at the beginning, middle and end of the night.

八睡眠让您可以非常轻松地控制睡眠环境的温度，您可以在晚上的开始、中间和结束时对床垫罩的温度进行编程。

I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for well over three years now, and it has completely transformed my sleep for the better.

我已经睡在八睡眠床垫罩上三年多了，它彻底改变了我的睡眠质量。

Eight Sleep recently launched their newest generation pod cover, the Pod 4 Ultra.

八睡眠最近推出了他们最新一代的 Pod 4 Ultra。

The Pod 4 Ultra has improved cooling and heating capacity, higher fidelity sleep-tracking technology, and it also has snoring detection that, remarkably, will automatically lift your head a few degrees to improve your airflow and stop your snoring.

Pod 4 Ultra 具有改进的冷却和加热能力、更高保真度的睡眠跟踪技术，并且还具有打鼾检测功能，值得注意的是，它会自动将您的头部抬起几度，以改善气流并停止打鼾。

If you'd like to try an Eight Sleep mattress cover, you can go to eightsleep.com/huberman to save $350 off their Pod 4 Ultra.

如果您想尝试八睡眠床垫套，您可以访问八睡眠.com/huberman，在 Pod 4 Ultra 上可节省 350 美元。

Eight Sleep currently ships to the USA, Canada, UK, select countries in the EU, and Australia.

八睡眠目前运往美国、加拿大、英国、欧盟部分国家和澳大利亚。

Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman.

再说一遍，这是八睡眠.com/huberman。

Today's episode is also brought to us by Waking Up.

今天的节目也是由Wakeing Up为我们带来的。

Waking Up is a meditation app that offers hundreds of guided meditation programs, mindfulness trainings, yoga nidra sessions, and more.

Waking Up 是一款冥想应用程序，提供数百个引导冥想计划、正念训练、瑜伽休息课程等。

I started practicing meditation when I was about 15 years old, and it made a profound impact on my life.

我大约15岁的时候开始练习冥想，它对我的​​生活产生了深远的影响。

And by now, there are thousands of quality peer-reviewed studies that emphasize how useful mindfulness meditation can be for improving our focus, managing stress and anxiety, improving our mood, and much more.

到目前为止，已有数以千计的高质量同行评审研究强调正念冥想对于提高我们的注意力、管理压力和焦虑、改善我们的情绪等等有多么有用。

In recent years, I started using the Waking Up app for my meditations because I find it to be a terrific resource for allowing me to really be consistent with my meditation practice.

近年来，我开始使用“Waking Up”应用程序进行冥想，因为我发现它是一个很棒的资源，可以让我真正坚持我的冥想练习。

Many people start a meditation practice and experience some benefits, but many people also have challenges keeping up with that practice.

许多人开始冥想练习并体验到一些好处，但许多人也面临着跟上练习的挑战。

What I and so many other people love about the Waking Up app is that it has a lot of different meditations to choose from, and those meditations are of different durations.

我和许多其他人喜欢“醒来”应用程序的原因是它有很多不同的冥想可供选择，而且这些冥想的持续时间也不同。

So it makes it very easy to keep up with your meditation practice.

所以它让你很容易跟上你的冥想练习。

You never get tired of those meditations — there's always something new to explore and to learn about yourself and about the effectiveness of meditation.

你永远不会厌倦这些冥想——总有一些新的东西可以探索和了解你自己以及冥想的有效性。

And you can always fit meditation into your schedule, even if you only have two or three minutes per day in which to meditate.

即使您每天只有两到三分钟的时间进行冥想，您也可以随时将冥想纳入您的日程安排中。

I also really like doing yoga nidra, or what is sometimes called non-sleep deep rest, for about ten or 20 minutes because it is a great way to restore mental and physical vigor without the tiredness that some people experience when they wake up from a conventional nap.

我也非常喜欢做瑜伽放松术，或者有时被称为非睡眠深度休息，持续大约十到二十分钟，因为这是恢复精神和身体活力的好方法，而且不会像某些人从传统午睡中醒来时所经历的那样感到疲劳。

If you'd like to try the Waking Up app, please go to wakingup.com/huberman, where you can access a free 30-day trial.

如果您想尝试 Waking Up 应用程序，请访问 wakingup.com/huberman，在这里您可以免费试用 30 天。

Again, that's wakingup.com/huberman to access a free 30-day trial.

同样，访问 wakingup.com/huberman 即可获得 30 天免费试用。

And now, for my discussion with Dr. Stacy Sims.

现在，我与史黛西·西姆斯博士进行了讨论。

Dr. Stacy Sims, welcome.

史黛西·西姆斯博士，欢迎。

Stacy Sims: Thanks.

史黛西·西姆斯：谢谢。

Andrew Huberman: Our podcast and I put out a lot of content about nutrition, fitness, cold exposure, heat exposure, hydration, topics that are very near and dear to your heart and for which you have a ton of expertise, but for which you have an extra degree of expertise as it relates to females specifically.

Andrew Huberman：我们的播客和我发布了很多关于营养、健身、冷暴露、热暴露、补水的内容，这些主题非常贴近您的心，您拥有大量的专业知识，但您拥有额外的专业知识，因为它专门与女性相关。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: So I'm excited to talk to you today because very often I will get questions in the comment section on social media or on YouTube: Was this study done in both men and women?

Andrew Huberman：所以我很高兴今天能与您交谈，因为我经常会在社交媒体或 YouTube 上的评论部分收到问题：这项研究是否针对男性和女性进行？

How does it differ for men versus women?

男性与女性有何不同？

And on and on.

不断地。

And I rarely, if ever, have answers.

我很少（如果有的话）得到答案。

But you have answers.

但你有答案。

Stacy Sims: I have answers for you.

史黛西·西姆斯：我有答案给你。

Andrew Huberman: Great.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 太好了。

So just to kick things off, because this is a question I get really often.

首先，因为这是我经常遇到的问题。

Fasting.

禁食。

Stacy Sims: Oh yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：哦，是的。

Andrew Huberman: Intermittent fasting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：间歇性禁食。

We need to distinguish between the two.

我们需要区分两者。

Of course.

当然。

Perhaps the most common question I get as it relates to males versus females is intermittent fasting, or time-restricted feeding, as it's sometimes called, an eight-hour feeding window, a six-hour feeding window, a ten-hour feeding window.

也许我收到的与男性和女性有关的最常见问题是间歇性禁食，或有时被称为“限时喂养”，八小时喂养窗口，六小时喂养窗口，十小时喂养窗口。

Is that something that that perhaps differs in terms of its impact and how well it works for men versus women?

这在影响力以及对男性和女性的效果方面可能有所不同吗？

Stacy Sims: Yeah, that's a short answer.

Stacy Sims：是的，这是一个简短的答案。

Andrew Huberman: Great.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 太好了。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Yeah.

是的。

So I'll put some parameters around it.

所以我会在它周围放置一些参数。

Right.

正确的。

So if we talk about intermittent fasting, that's where you have, like the 20 hours nonfeeding window, or you're holding a fast until noon or after, and then we have time-restricted eating.

所以，如果我们谈论间歇性禁食，那就是你所拥有的，比如 20 小时禁食窗口，或者你要禁食到中午或中午之后，然后我们就有时间限制的饮食。

And that's the fancy way of saying normal eating where you're having breakfast and then you stop eating after, or you don't have anything after dinner.

这是正常饮食的一种奇特方式，即吃早餐，然后停止进食，或者晚餐后不吃任何东西。

Right.

正确的。

So you're eating with your circadian rhythm during the day.

因此，您白天的饮食是按照昼夜节律进行的。

If we look at intermittent fasting, where you're holding the fast up till noon or you're having days of really low-calorie restriction, we see in active women, it's very detrimental.

如果我们看看间歇性禁食，即你将禁食持续到中午，或者你进行几天真正的低热量限制，我们发现在活跃的女性中，这是非常有害的。

Unless you have PCOS or you have some other subclinical issue.

除非您患有多囊卵巢综合症或有其他亚临床问题。

And the reason for that is we, as women, have more oxidative fibers.

原因是我们作为女性有更多的氧化纤维。

So we hear about all the things about fasting to improve our metabolic flexibility, to improve telomere length, to improve parasympathetic activation.

因此，我们听到有关禁食的所有说法，以提高我们的代谢灵活性，延长端粒长度，提高副交感神经的激活。

But by the nature of women having more oxidative fibers, we are already metabolically more flexible than mental.

但由于女性拥有更多氧化纤维，我们的新陈代谢已经比精神更加灵活。

Andrew Huberman: Interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：有趣。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Didn't know that.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 不知道。

Could you elaborate on more oxidative fibers, what that is and how it relates to metabolic flexibility?

您能否详细说明一下更多的氧化纤维，它是什么以及它与代谢灵活性的关系如何？

Stacy Sims: So, oxidative fibers are muscle fibers that are more aerobic capacity.

Stacy Sims：所以，氧化纤维是有氧能力更强的肌肉纤维。

So those are the ones that you can go long and slow for a very long period of time because it uses a lot of free fatty acids.

所以这些是你可以在很长一段时间内长期缓慢进行的，因为它使用大量的游离脂肪酸。

You need a little bit of glucose in order to activate those free fatty acids.

您需要一点葡萄糖才能激活这些游离脂肪酸。

So when we look, when a woman starts to exercise, she goes through blood glucose first and then gets into free fatty acid use, she doesn't tap so much into liver muscle glycogen, which is, I think, another misconception that happens.

因此，当我们观察时，当女性开始锻炼时，她首先会消耗血糖，然后进入游离脂肪酸的使用，她不会大量利用肝肌糖原，我认为这是另一个误解。

So when we're talking about fasting or fasted workouts, trying to improve that metabolic flexibility, it increases stress on the woman.

因此，当我们谈论禁食或禁食锻炼，试图提高新陈代谢的灵活性时，它会增加女性的压力。

And so when we're talking about overall stress, we're talking about cortisol increase, and they can't hit intensities high enough with no fuel to be able to invoke the postexercise responses of growth hormone and testosterone, which then drop cortisol.

因此，当我们谈论整体压力时，我们谈论的是皮质醇增加，并且在没有燃料的情况下，他们无法达到足够高的强度，无法激发生长激素和睾酮的运动后反应，从而降低皮质醇。

So, from an overall stress perspective, that fasted workout and holding that fast for a long period of time increases cortisol.

因此，从整体压力的角度来看，禁食锻炼并长时间保持禁食会增加皮质醇。

But then when we look from, like, a hypothalamic point of view and we're looking at how the brain reads it, so we know that there's one area of kisspeptin neurons in the brain for men, but there are two for women.

但当我们从下丘脑的角度来看时，我们会观察大脑如何解读它，所以我们知道男性大脑中有一个吻肽神经元区域，但女性有两个区域。

So the two areas are distinct, where one controls appetite and luteinizing hormone, and the other one is looking at estrogen and thyroid.

因此，这两个领域是不同的，一个领域控制食欲和黄体生成素，另一个领域关注雌激素和甲状腺。

So if you start having an exercise stress or a daily stress of getting up and going on with your day without fuel, you perturb those kisspeptin neurons and downregulate them.

因此，如果你开始承受运动压力或每天起床并在没有燃料的情况下继续生活的压力，你就会扰乱这些吻肽神经元并下调它们。

When you start downregulating them, we see that after four days, you have a dysregulation of thyroid.

当您开始下调它们时，我们发现四天后，您的甲状腺就会出现失调。

We have a change in our luteinizing hormone pulse, which is really important to maintain endocrine function.

我们的黄体生成激素脉冲发生了变化，这对于维持内分泌功能非常重要。

We'll hear this, oh, I've been fasting for so many years, and it does great for me.

我们会听到这个，哦，我已经禁食这么多年了，这对我来说很有好处。

But the other side of the question is, well, how much better would you be if you were to actually pay attention to your circadian rhythm and fuel according to the stress at hand, and knowing that you're going to garner less stress that way?

但问题的另一面是，如果你真正关注你的昼夜节律并根据当前的压力补充能量，并且知道这样你会获得更少的压力，你会好多少？

And if we're really tying in nutrition according to that profile, instead of following a fast, we see better brain improvements as well.

如果我们真的根据这种情况结合营养，而不是禁食，我们也会看到更好的大脑改善。

We see more cognitive function, we see less thyroid dysfunction, and overall, a woman does much better when we're not in that fasted state.

我们看到更多的认知功能，更少的甲状腺功能障碍，总的来说，当我们不处于禁食状态时，女性的表现要好得多。

Then when you look at population research that's coming out now, they're showing in both men and women who hold their fast till noon and then have an eating window from noon to maybe 6 p.m.

然后，当你看看现在发表的人口研究时，就会发现男性和女性都坚持禁食到中午，然后从中午到下午 6 点有一个进食时间。

have more obesogenic outcomes than people who break their fast at 8 and finished their eating window by 4 or 5 p.m., so it's coming back to the chronobiology of we need to eat when our body is under stress and needs it.

与那些在 8 点开始禁食并在下午 4 点或 5 点完成进食窗口的人相比，这些人更容易导致肥胖，所以这又回到了时间生物学，即当我们的身体处于压力之下并需要进食时，我们就需要进食。

Unless we have a specific issue, like obesity, inactivity, PCOS, or other metabolic conditions, then we can look at using fasting as a strategic intervention to help with those modalities.

除非我们有特定的问题，例如肥胖、缺乏运动、多囊卵巢综合症或其他代谢状况，否则我们可以考虑使用禁食作为一种战略干预措施来帮助解决这些问题。

Andrew Huberman: Super interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：超级有趣。

Two questions.

两个问题。

Is there a protective effect of starting the eating window?

开启进食窗口有保护作用吗？

And here I'm asking for both men and women starting the eating window at, say, 11 a.m.

在这里，我要求男性和女性都在上午 11 点开始进餐。

or noon and ending it a little bit later.

或中午并稍后结束。

So not a six-hour eating window or seven-hour eating window, but extending that to 8 or 9 p.m.

因此，不是六小时或七小时的进食窗口，而是延长至晚上 8 点或 9 点。

under those conditions, do you still see the obesogenic effect?

在这种情况下，你还能看到致肥作用吗？

Stacy Sims: Yes, because we're looking at the way cortisol responds.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，因为我们正在研究皮质醇的反应方式。

We know cortisol has lots of fluctuations throughout the day, and it peaks about half an hour after you wake up.

我们知道皮质醇在一天中会有很大的波动，并且在您醒来后半小时左右达到峰值。

Right.

正确的。

So if you're having that cortisol peak half an hour after you wake up, but you're not eating, then that is that higher baseline sympathetic drive for women.

因此，如果您在起床后半小时皮质醇达到峰值，但您没有进食，那么这就是女性交感神经驱动力基线较高的情况。

For men, it's not the same.

对于男人来说，情况就不一样了。

So when we're looking at that obesogenic outcome, the actual timing hasn't been tested yet to see how can we expand or contract that eating window for men.

因此，当我们考虑导致肥胖的结果时，实际的时机尚未经过测试，以了解如何扩大或缩小男性的饮食窗口。

But for women, because of that cortisol peak right after waking up, women tend to be already sympathetically driven.

但对于女性来说，由于醒来后皮质醇达到峰值，女性往往已经受到同情心的驱使。

So then they walk around more tired but wired and have a really, really difficult time accessing any kind of parasympathetic responses down the way, where if you have something really small, where you're bringing blood sugar up, then it's signaling to the hypothalamus, hey, yeah, there's some nutrition on board, then we can start our day.

因此，他们走来走去会更加疲倦，但会变得更加兴奋，并且在一路上很难获得任何类型的副交感神经反应，如果你有一些非常小的东西，你会使血糖升高，那么它就会向下丘脑发出信号，嘿，是的，船上有一些营养，然后我们就可以开始新的一天。

So again, it has to look at that circadian rhythm and those hormone fluxes, which people don't really either understand or talk about, because all of our hormones flux through the day.

再说一次，它必须关注昼夜节律和激素流动，人们实际上既不理解也不谈论这些，因为我们所有的激素在一天中都会流动。

And so you have to look at where's the peak of cortisol?

所以你必须看看皮质醇的峰值在哪里？

How does estrogen flux?

雌激素如何流动？

How does luteinizing hormone flux, progesterone, all these things that have this tight interplay.

黄体生成素通量、黄体酮以及所有这些紧密相互作用的物质是如何相互作用的？

And the more we're doing the hormone research and the more we're understanding these perturbations and how important it is to fuel for it to stay out of any kind of low energy-availability stance.

我们对激素的研究越多，我们就越了解这些扰动，以及为其提供燃料以避免任何低能量可用性状态的重要性。

Andrew Huberman: Regular listeners of this podcast will know this but just to remind everybody, a sympathetic state has nothing to do with emotional sympathy.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这个播客的常客都会知道这一点，但只是提醒大家，同情状态与情感同情无关。

Sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system, which drives more arousal and alertness, and at higher levels, stress, sometimes called the fight-or-flight response.

自主神经系统的交感神经臂，可驱动更多的兴奋和警觉性，并在较高水平时产生压力，有时称为“战斗或逃跑反应”。

Parasympathetic being the other arm of the autonomic nervous system, sometimes called the rest-and-digest arm of the autonomic nervous system.

副交感神经是自主神经系统的另一臂，有时称为自主神经系统的休息和消化臂。

They work sort of like a seesaw or a push-pull.

它们的工作原理有点像跷跷板或推拉器。

Pick your analogy.

选择你的类比。

In any case, it sounds like intermittent fasting or time-restricted feeding, unless it's very well aligned to the circadian rhythm, is not going to be advantageous for women.

无论如何，这听起来像是间歇性禁食或限时喂养，除非它非常符合昼夜节律，否则对女性来说并不有利。

That's what I'm hearing.

这就是我所听到的。

I'm also hearing that if a woman trains while fasted, so in the nonfeeding window, so wakes up, maybe has some hydration and trains, that's going to further exacerbate the stress response in a way that's not going to be good.

我还听说，如果一名女性在禁食期间进行训练，那么在非进食窗口中，那么醒来时，可能会补充一些水分并进行训练，这会以一种不好的方式进一步加剧压力反应。

Stacy Sims: Exactly.

史黛西·西姆斯：没错。

Andrew Huberman: And I have to imagine that if she also is drinking caffeine in order to do that training, because caffeine is a stimulant of the sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system, that it will further exacerbate all these issues.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：我必须想象，如果她也喝咖啡因来进行训练，因为咖啡因是自主神经系统交感神经的兴奋剂，那么它会进一步加剧所有这些问题。

So this is an eye-opener for me, because I've had female training partners for years.

所以这让我大开眼界，因为多年来我一直有女性训练伙伴。

I don't eat until 11 a.m.

我直到上午11点才吃饭

I like to hydrate and caffeinate before I train in the morning, and then I like to eat starting around noon.

我喜欢在早上训练前补充水分和摄入咖啡因，然后我喜欢在中午左右开始进食。

Several of them have hopped on that schedule with me.

他们中的一些人已经按照我的时间表进行了。

Some of them eat breakfast first, some of them don't.

有些人先吃早餐，有些则不吃。

They do as they choose, of course.

当然，他们按照自己的选择行事。

But now I'm thinking that's probably the worst way to go.

但现在我认为这可能是最糟糕的方法。

Stacy Sims: And it gets worse as you get older, because if we're seeing as women are getting into perimenopause, which is in their 40s, and we have more fluctuation of those hormones and an increase in baseline cortisol anyway, then when you look at fasted training, it increases that cortisol drive and that sympathetic drive.

Stacy Sims：随着年龄的增长，情况会变得更糟，因为如果我们看到女性进入围绝经期，即 40 多岁，并且这些激素的波动更大，基线皮质醇也会增加，那么当你观察禁食训练时，它会增加皮质醇驱动和交感神经驱动。

And because it's at a point where you really need to polarize your training to get any kind of body composition change, not having any fuel before a high-intensity workout puts them in moderate intensity, they just can't hit the intensities they need to.

因为此时你确实需要极化你的训练以获得任何类型的身体成分变化，在高强度锻炼将他们置于中等强度之前没有任何燃料，他们只是无法达到他们需要的强度。

Same with resistance training.

与阻力训练相同。

Like, you go in and a lot of women are now working on sessional RPE or rating perceived exertion, where you go in and say, okay, we need you to hit an eight on this squat.

就像，你走进去，很多女性现在正在进行会话 RPE 或评估感知的努力，你进去说，好吧，我们需要你在这个深蹲中打出八分。

So you have two reps and resistance and a sessional RPE of an eight.

因此，您有两次重复次数和阻力，以及 8 次的会话 RPE。

Well, if they're not fueled, then we are seeing trends that they're missing around 2 to 5% of that top load.

好吧，如果它们不加燃料，那么我们就会看到它们会缺少大约 2% 到 5% 的最高负载。

So they're not really lifting in that zone that they need to be in.

所以他们并没有真正在他们需要进入的区域举重。

Andrew Huberman: Let's get people, sorry to interrupt.

Andrew Huberman：我们去找人吧，抱歉打扰了。

Let's get people up to speed on RPE, because this is a term that's starting to circulate more outside the physical training community into the broader kind of recreational exerciser community, which I consider myself part of.

让我们让人们加快了解 RPE，因为这个术语开始在体能训练界之外广泛传播到更广泛的休闲锻炼者界，我认为自己也是其中的一部分。

Stacy Sims: Me too, now.

史黛西·西姆斯：现在我也是。

Andrew Huberman: I mean, I train regularly and have for years, but I'm not an athlete, I don't get paid to train and I, you know, and so forth.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：我的意思是，我定期训练，并且已经训练了很多年，但我不是运动员，我没有报酬训练，我，你知道，等等。

So reps in reserve, perceived effort.

因此，代表们要保持保留，感知努力。

Let me just explain this.

让我解释一下这一点。

I think probably 95% of our listenership has never heard these terms.

我想我们 95% 的听众可能从未听说过这些术语。

Stacy Sims: Okay so if we're talking about reps in reserve, this is when you go in.

Stacy Sims：好的，如果我们谈论的是预备队代表，那么这就是你上场的时候。

And if you say eight, means you have two reps in reserve.

如果你说八，意味着你有两个备用代表。

So you finish your eight and you should be able to complete two more with a really good form and then you hit failure.

所以你完成了八项，你应该能够以非常好的状态完成另外两项，然后你就失败了。

Andrew Huberman: So eight repetitions in good form and the person doing the exercise could, in theory, if they really dug in there, grit their teeth, could complete two more repetitions in good form before hitting failure.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以，以良好的形式重复八次，理论上，如果做练习的人真的埋头苦干，咬紧牙关，可以在失败之前以良好的形式再完成两次重复。

The inability to move the weight anymore in good form.

无法再以良好的状态移动重量。

Stacy Sims: Exactly.

史黛西·西姆斯：没错。

Andrew Huberman: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

But they're stopping at eight, so they have two reps in reserve.

但他们会在八点停止，所以他们有两名代表备用。

Stacy Sims: Exactly.

史黛西·西姆斯：没错。

And so we can correspond that with your rating, perceived exertion.

因此我们可以将其与您的评分、感知的努力程度相对应。

So if we're saying we need you to hit an eight on our scale of one-to-ten of a rating perceived exertion, we see it correlates with that eight with two reps in reserve.

因此，如果我们说我们需要您在感知努力程度的 1 到 10 等级中达到 8 分，我们会发现它与 8 分相关，并有 2 次代表备用。

So it's a way of quantifying what you're doing in the moment for a squat or a deadlift or some other really heavy lift that you're trying to accomplish,

所以这是一种量化你在深蹲、硬拉或其他你想要完成的大重量动作中所做的事情的方法，

Andrew Huberman: As opposed to looking at, say, percentage of one repetition maximum.

Andrew Huberman：与查看一次重复最大值的百分比相反。

Saying you're going to move 70% of your one repetition maximum for six repetitions seems like that's a great thing as well.

假设您要移动一次重复次数上限的 70%，进行六次重复，这似乎也是一件很棒的事情。

But it's a little bit more complicated because you need to know your one repetition maximum.

但这有点复杂，因为您需要知道您的最大重复次数。

Doing one repetition maximums can be dangerous if you're not skilled in that, especially with compound movements like squats and deadlifts.

如果你不熟练，做一次最大重复次数可能会很危险，尤其是深蹲和硬拉等复合动作。

Stacy Sims: Yep.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Okay, so is there an across-the-board recommendation for most people that they should generally train their sets in good form to failure to leave a couple reps in reserve?

安德鲁·胡伯曼：好的，那么对于大多数人来说，是否有一个全面的建议，即他们通常应该以良好的状态训练他们的组别，以免留下几个代表作为后备？

What do you suggest for, let's say, women?

比如说，你对女性有什么建议？

But this could also pertain to men.

但这也可能适用于男性。

Stacy Sims: And then that also depends on the age of the woman.

Stacy Sims：这还取决于女性的年龄。

So if we're looking at the reproductive years, so, you know, 20 to 40, then it doesn't matter so much.

因此，如果我们考虑生育年龄，20 到 40 岁，那么这并不重要。

You can periodize pretty much how normal periodization works with your mesocycles and your microcycles.

您可以大致了解正常周期与中周期和微周期的工作原理。

So you're looking at what you're doing across a few months.

所以你要看看这几个月你在做什么。

What are you doing in the week?

这周你在做什么？

Are you lifting heavy power-based training.

您是否正在进行大重量的力量训练？

But when we start to get to perimenopause and we're losing all the flux of estrogen, and estrogen is woman's testosterone, the key driver for strength and power?

但是当我们开始进入更年期时，我们就会失去所有雌激素的流动，而雌激素是女性的睾酮，是力量和力量的关键驱动力？

We have to look at lifting heavy.

我们必须考虑举起重物。

So this is where we really turn women on to.

所以这才是我们真正让女性兴奋的地方。

We want you to do something that is two reps in reserve, three reps in reserve, because your one-rep max also changes depending on what kind of training block you're doing.

我们希望你做的事情是预备重复两次，预备重复三次，因为你的一次最多重复次数也会根据你正在进行的训练类型而变化。

So we're finding that when you're talking about reps in reserve, then it allows people to lift more on the day, so we can get women to get into that strength and power-based-type training, rather than going, let's lift to fatigue, because then it might be 20 reps.

所以我们发现，当你谈论预备次数时，它可以让人们在当天举起更多的重量，这样我们就可以让女性进行基于力量和爆发力的训练，而不是让我们举重到疲劳，因为那样可能会重复 20 次。

And that 20 reps doesn't invoke a big central nervous system response, which is what we want.

而且 20 次重复不会引起中枢神经系统的强烈反应，而这正是我们想要的。

It's more of that hypertrophy and muscle tearing.

更多的是肥大和肌肉撕裂。

You will gain some lean mass, but not as much strength as if you were to invoke that central nervous system response.

你会获得一些瘦体重，但力量不会像你激发中枢神经系统反应那样强大。

And that becomes really critical as women get older, because we need to find that external response that's going to cause the same kind of strength and power adaptation that estrogen used to support.

随着女性年龄的增长，这一点变得非常重要，因为我们需要找到外部反应，以产生与雌激素所支持的力量和力量适应相同的力量和力量适应。

Andrew Huberman: Interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：有趣。

Lots to talk about in terms of exercise.

关于运动方面有很多话要说。

But before we move on, if the bad situation is a woman fasting, drinking caffeine, and training intensely, but as you told us, not as intensely as she would be able to otherwise, what's the solution?

但在我们继续之前，如果糟糕的情况是一名女性禁食、喝咖啡因并进行高强度训练，但正如您告诉我们的那样，强度不像其他情况下那么高，那么解决方案是什么？

I imagine that solution involves ingesting some fuel.

我想这个解决方案涉及摄入一些燃料。

What is a good example of a pretraining meal, if you will?

如果您愿意的话，训练前膳食的一个很好的例子是什么？

And we could put some variation on that for people with different tendencies towards omnivore or vegan or whatever, but what is the timing of that meal relative to training that works best?

我们可以为具有不同杂食或纯素或其他倾向的人提供一些变化，但是相对于训练最有效的进餐时间是什么？

I'm assuming there's some flexibility there.

我假设那里有一定的灵活性。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

I'm the kind of person gets up and is out the door within a half an hour to go do whatever I'm gonna do.

我是那种半小时内起床就出门去做我要做的事情的人。

So it's not like I'm gonna have a full meal.

所以我不会吃饱饭。

Andrew Huberman: I've heard of people like you.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我听说过像你这样的人。

Yeah.

是的。

Meaning I tend to move slowly in the morning.

这意味着我早上倾向于缓慢移动。

Stacy Sims: I wish I could, but the way my life is, it doesn't work that way.

史黛西·西姆斯（Stacy Sims）：我希望可以，但我的生活方式却并非如此。

But I'm also one of the people that never really has an appetite till 11.

但我也是那些直到十一点才真正有胃口的人之一。

Andrew Huberman: Okay, so we're similar in that way.

Andrew Huberman：好的，我们在这方面很相似。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: So how do you square that so.

Andrew Huberman：那么你如何解决这个问题呢？

Stacy Sims: I make a double espresso at night, and I put some almond milk and a scoop of protein powder in there.

Stacy Sims：我晚上会煮一杯双份浓缩咖啡，然后在里面放一些杏仁奶和一勺蛋白粉。

So the almond milk is sweetened, and usually it's unsweetened but sweetened for the carb and then the protein powder for the protein.

所以杏仁奶是加糖的，通常不加糖，但加糖是为了碳水化合物，然后是为了蛋白质而加蛋白粉。

Because if I'm going to go do an ocean swim, then I need some carbohydrate and protein on board.

因为如果我要去海里游泳，那么我需要在船上补充一些碳水化合物和蛋白质。

If I'm going to just go to the gym, then I'll probably just have the protein powder and the coffee.

如果我只是去健身房，那么我可能只吃蛋白粉和咖啡。

Yes, I'm caffeinating, but I'm also getting the calories for the hypothalamus and getting more circulating amino acids.

是的，我摄入了咖啡因，但我也为下丘脑获取了热量，并获得了更多的循环氨基酸。

Abbie Smith-Ryan out of UNC did some specific work looking at carbohydrate protein before and strength or cardio, and found that if you're going to do a true strength-training session, you only need around 15 grams of protein before you go to really help you get into the idea that, yes, you have some fuel on board and also increases your postexercise oxygen consumption, or your epoch, so your resting metabolism stays elevated, giving you a better chance for recovery post exercise as well.

北卡罗来纳大学的艾比·史密斯-瑞恩（Abbie Smith-Ryan）对运动前的碳水化合物蛋白质以及力量或有氧运动做了一些具体的研究，发现如果你要进行真正的力量训练，你在开始之前只需要大约 15 克蛋白质，就能真正帮助你认识到这样的想法：是的，你有一些能量，而且还会增加你运动后的耗氧量或你的时间，因此你的静息代谢保持较高水平，让你在运动后有更好的恢复机会。

If you're going to do any kind of cardiovascular-type work up to an hour, then you're adding 30 grams of carb to that.

如果您要进行任何类型的心血管类型工作长达一小时，那么您需要添加 30 克碳水化合物。

So it's not a lot of food and it's not a full meal.

所以这不是很多食物，也不是一顿饱餐。

Other people are like, I'm starving right before I go training.

其他人会说，我在去训练之前就饿了。

Then yes, you can have your meal giving yourself about half an hour before, but it doesn't have to be major food that we're talking about.

然后，是的，您可以在大约半小时前吃饭，但不一定是我们正在谈论的主要食物。

But that's just enough to bring blood sugar up and, and stimulate the hypothalamus to say, yeah, there's some nutrition coming in and then you have your real food afterwards.

但这足以使血糖升高，并刺激下丘脑说，是的，有一些营养进入，然后你就可以吃到真正的食物了。

You have your breakfast afterwards within 45 minutes.

之后您将在 45 分钟内享用早餐。

Andrew Huberman: As a neuroscientist, I find it so interesting that at least some of what you're talking about with this preworkout meal, and perhaps most of it relates to how ingesting those calories impacts the brain, protects those kisspeptin neurons.

Andrew Huberman：作为一名神经科学家，我发现这很有趣，至少你在锻炼前餐中谈论的一些内容，也许大部分都与摄入这些卡路里如何影响大脑、保护那些吻肽神经元有关。

We'll talk more about kisspeptin, very interesting peptide, as opposed to saying, okay, you need x number of calories because you're going to burn x number of calories.

我们将更多地讨论 Kisspeptin，一种非常有趣的肽，而不是说，好吧，你需要 x 卡路里，因为你要燃烧 x 卡路里。

Stacy Sims: I hate that conversation.

史黛西·西姆斯：我讨厌那种谈话。

Andrew Huberman: Which is a very different conversation here.

Andrew Huberman：这是一次非常不同的对话。

What we're talking about is the neural aspects of being able to generate intensity.

我们谈论的是能够产生强度的神经方面。

Also blunt cortisol and get the most out of training without putting the body into kind of an emergency state.

还能减弱皮质醇，充分利用训练，而不会让身体陷入紧急状态。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

And the longer someone withholds food after exercise.

运动后禁食的时间越长。

And the greater they stay in that catabolic or breakdown state, the more the brain perceives it as being in a low-energy state.

它们处于分解代谢或分解状态的时间越长，大脑就越认为它处于低能量状态。

So the first thing to go is lean mass.

所以首先要做的是去脂体重。

When you start telling a woman that, you know, if you're going to do fasted training and or you're going to delay food intake afterwards while you're training, because the first thing that goes is lean mass, and it's really, really hard for women to put on lean mass.

当你开始告诉女人这一点时，你知道，如果你要进行禁食训练，或者你要在训练后推迟食物摄入，因为首先消失的是瘦体重，而对于女性来说，增加瘦体重真的非常非常困难。

So once you start really nailing that and then saying, look, you just need 15 grams of protein to really help and be able to conserve that lean mass, it's a small, simple fix.

因此，一旦你开始真正解决这个问题，然后说，看，你只需要 15 克蛋白质就能真正有所帮助并能够保存瘦体重，这是一个小而简单的解决方案。

People try it and they're like, oh my gosh, I feel amazing.

人们尝试后会说，天哪，我感觉太棒了。

So small little things when you're working with the whole system because I get tired.

当你使用整个系统时，这些都是很小的事情，因为我累了。

Especially around Christmas time, when you're reading all the magazines, it's like "two cookies means you have to walk for 30 minutes on the treadmill." It's like it doesn't correlate like that at all.

尤其是在圣诞节前后，当你读完所有的杂志时，就像“两块饼干意味着你必须在跑步机上走30分钟”。好像根本不相关。

So that's why I was like, I hate the calorie conversation because it's just not applicable, right?

所以这就是为什么我想，我讨厌卡路里的谈话，因为它不适用，对吧？

Andrew Huberman: And it has its own kind of elements of being laced with neuroticism about calorie counting, and then that can drift easily into the realm of eating disorders.

安德鲁·休伯曼：它有它自己的一种元素，即与卡路里计算有关的神经质，然后很容易陷入饮食失调的领域。

I did an episode about eating disorders some years ago, and as I was researching that episode, I learned that people with eating disorders, women and men, especially anorexia, become like calorie calculators.

几年前，我制作了一集关于饮食失调的节目，当我研究该集时，我了解到患有饮食失调的人，无论是女性还是男性，尤其是厌食症患者，都会变得像卡路里计算器一样。

Their eyes and their brain just are constantly evaluating the caloric load of food, and it can be obviously very intrusive.

他们的眼睛和大脑不断地评估食物的热量负荷，这显然是非常干扰性的。

It's also the most deadly of all the psychiatric conditions.

它也是所有精神疾病中最致命的。

So that's a long way from hopefully what we're talking about here.

所以这距离我们在这里谈论的还有很长的路要走。

But there's the opportunity for drift whenever talking about calorie counting in and out.

但每当谈论卡路里的输入和输出时，就有可能出现偏差。

We, of course, believe in the laws of thermodynamics and calories in, calories out.

当然，我们相信热力学定律和热量输入、热量输出。

But I love what you're describing here as getting the brain in a mode that the brain and body are protected so that one can invest in that high-intensity exercise and get the adaptations that one wants, but not send everything down this pathway of just becoming a computer, of how much am I exercising?

但我喜欢你在这里所描述的，让大脑处于一种大脑和身体都受到保护的模式，这样人们就可以投资于高强度锻炼并获得人们想要的适应，但不会把一切都沿着这条路变成一台计算机，我锻炼了多少？

What did I burn, what did I earn?

我烧了什么，我赚了什么？

Stacy Sims: It's crazy.

史黛西·西姆斯：太疯狂了。

Andrew Huberman: It's crazy.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这太疯狂了。

As long as we're talking about food and food intake relative to training, what is the suggested post-training window in which one should either avoid or make sure they get nutrition?

只要我们谈论与训练相关的食物和食物摄入量，那么建议的训练后窗口期应该避免或确保他们获得营养？

Meaning how long does one have after let's say a resistance-training session of about an hour.

意思是在大约一小时的阻力训练之后，一个人需要多长时间。

Seems to me that's what most people are doing if they're investing in resistance training, maybe plus or minus, what, 20 minutes and they're hitting those high-intensity sets where they have maybe just one or two repetitions in reserve, maybe going to failure on a few of those sets.

在我看来，这就是大多数人正在做的事情，如果他们投资阻力训练，可能是加减，什么，20 分钟，他们会进行那些高强度的训练，而他们可能只保留一到两次重复，可能会在其中一些训练中失败。

What do you recommend women eat after they train?

您建议女性训练后吃什么？

Stacy Sims: So we know that women who are in their reproductive years need around 35 grams of good protein, high-quality leucine-oriented protein within 45 minutes.

Stacy Sims：所以我们知道，育龄女性在 45 分钟内需要大约 35 克优质蛋白质，即以亮氨酸为主导的优质蛋白质。

And we see that women who are perimenopausal onwards are 40 to 60 grams because we become more anabolically resistant to food and exercise as we get older.

我们发现，围绝经期以后的女性体重为 40 至 60 克，因为随着年龄的增长，我们对食物和运动的合成代谢抵抗力增强。

When we look at the recovery window for food, there are definitely sex differences because we hear all the conversation of there's no recovery window.

当我们查看食物的恢复窗口时，肯定存在性别差异，因为我们听到所有关于没有恢复窗口的谈话。

It's old science, but we look at the research of when women's metabolisms come back down to baseline, meaning that they have constant straight blood sugar levels versus men.

这是古老的科学，但我们研究了女性新陈代谢何时恢复到基线的研究，这意味着她们与男性相比具有恒定的直接血糖水平。

Women it's within 60 minutes and for men it's up to three hours.

女性的时间在 60 分钟内，男性的时间长达 3 小时。

So when we're looking at the data that says there's no window per se for getting food in, it's based on male data.

因此，当我们查看数据表明本身没有获取食物的窗口时，它是基于男性数据。

So when we're looking at women, we have this tighter window to stop that breakdown effect and start the reparation.

因此，当我们关注女性时，我们有一个更严格的窗口来阻止崩溃效应并开始修复。

So yeah, it's like when we're talking about the protein intake, it's really important not only to get that leucine content up in the muscle to start the reparation and repair, but also again to signal that yeah, we're in a building state, we're not holding that catabolic state and increasing all the repercussions that come with it.

所以，是的，就像当我们谈论蛋白质摄入量时，不仅要增加肌肉中的亮氨酸含量以开始修复和修复，而且还要再次表明，是的，我们正处于构建状态，我们不会保持分解代谢状态并增加随之而来的所有影响。

Andrew Huberman: So women should try and get 30 or as much as 40, maybe 50 grams of protein depending on their age.

Andrew Huberman：所以女性应该根据她们的年龄尝试摄入 30 克或多达 40 克，也许 50 克蛋白质。

Post training, within an hour of training, men seem to have a longer window.

训练后，在训练后一小时内，男性似乎有更长的窗口期。

They could wait an hour, two hours, maybe even three hours before ingesting protein.

他们可以等待一个小时、两个小时、甚至三个小时才摄入蛋白质。

What about carbohydrate?

那么碳水化合物呢？

Stacy Sims: We look at mixed, but for men it's more important because they go through their liver and muscle glycogen so much faster than women.

Stacy Sims：我们着眼于混合，但对于男性来说这更重要，因为他们比女性更快地消耗肝脏和肌肉糖原。

So when we look at women, we want to get around 0.3 grams per kilo of carbohydrate within two hours of finishing.

因此，当我们观察女性时，我们希望在完成后两小时内获得每公斤 0.3 克左右的碳水化合物。

So we look at protein and people are like whoa, that's a big dose of protein.

所以当我们研究蛋白质时，人们会说哇，这是很大剂量的蛋白质。

How do I get it all in?

我怎样才能把它全部放进去？

It's like, yeah, well you can look at how we mix all of these things and you're also getting carbohydrate in with that.

就像，是的，你可以看看我们如何混合所有这些东西，你也可以从中获取碳水化合物。

So that's why I say you could have your next meal after your training session.

这就是为什么我说你可以在训练结束后吃下一顿饭。

Yeah, there's a time and a place for protein supplementation, but if you're getting that real food and then you're also getting, you know, your magnesium and your potassium and your sodium and all the things that people supposedly lose, and you're able to also repair a lot better.

是的，补充蛋白质有时间和地点，但如果你得到真正的食物，那么你也得到了，你知道，你的镁、你的钾、你的钠以及人们认为会失去的所有东西，而且你也能够更好地修复。

Andrew Huberman: As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 for more than ten years now, so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring this podcast.

Andrew Huberman：正如你们很多人所知，我已经服用 AG1 十多年了，所以我很高兴他们赞助这个播客。

To be clear, I don't take AG1 because they're a sponsor.

需要明确的是，我选择 AG1 并不是因为他们是赞助商。

Rather, they are a sponsor because I take AG1.

相反，他们是赞助商，因为我选择了 AG1。

In fact, I take AG1 once and often twice every single day, and I've done that since starting way back in 2012.

事实上，我每天服用一次 AG1，经常服用两次，早在 2012 年我就开始这样做了。

There is so much conflicting information out there nowadays about what proper nutrition is.

关于什么是适当的营养，现在有很多相互矛盾的信息。

But here's what there seems to be a general consensus on: whether you're an omnivore, a carnivore, a vegetarian, or a vegan, I think it's generally agreed that you should get most of your food from unprocessed or minimally processed sources, which allows you to eat enough but not overeat.

但似乎有一个普遍共识：无论你是杂食动物、肉食动物、素食主义者还是纯素食主义者，我认为人们普遍认为你应该从未经加工或最低限度加工的来源获取大部分食物，这样你就可以吃得足够，但不会吃得过多。

Get plenty of vitamins and minerals, probiotics and micronutrients that we all need for physical and mental health.

获取我们身心健康所需的充足维生素和矿物质、益生菌和微量营养素。

Now, I personally am an omnivore and strive to get most of my food from unprocessed or minimally processed sources.

现在，我个人是一个杂食动物，努力从未经加工或最低限度加工的来源获取大部分食物。

But the reason I still take AG1 once and often twice every day is that it ensures I get all of those vitamins, minerals, probiotics, etc. But it also has adaptogens to help me cope with stress.

但我仍然每天服用一次 AG1（通常是两次）的原因是它可以确保我获得所有维生素、矿物质、益生菌等。而且它还含有适应原来帮助我应对压力。

It's basically a nutritional insurance policy meant to augment, not replace, quality food.

它基本上是一项营养保险政策，旨在增强而不是取代优质食品。

So, by drinking a serving of AG1 in the morning and again in the afternoon or evening, I cover all of my foundational nutritional needs.

因此，通过早上喝一份 AG1，然后在下午或晚上再喝一次，我就可以满足我所有的基本营养需求。

And I, like so many other people that take AG1, report feeling much better in a number of important ways, such as energy levels, digestion, sleep and more.

和许多其他服用 AG1 的人一样，我报告在许多重要方面感觉好多了，例如能量水平、消化、睡眠等。

So, while many supplements out there are really directed towards obtaining one specific outcome, AG1 is foundational nutrition, designed to support all aspects of well-being related to mental health and physical health.

因此，虽然许多补充剂实际上是为了获得一种特定的结果，但 AG1 是基础营养，旨在支持与心理健康和身体健康相关的各个方面的福祉。

If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkAG1.com/Huberman to claim a special offer.

如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 DrinkAG1.com/Huberman 申请特别优惠。

They'll give you five free travel packs with your order, plus a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2.

您订购后，他们将赠送 5 个免费旅行套装，以及一年的维生素 D3 K2。

Again, that's drinkAG1.com/Huberman.

再说一遍，这是 DrinkAG1.com/Huberman。

At some point, there was a lot of discussion about training fasted burns more body fat.

在某些时候，关于禁食训练燃烧更多身体脂肪的讨论很多。

I think now most people accept that that's not the case, that perhaps the percentage of fat as fuel is increased when one trains fasted, but that overall, in terms of loss of body fat, it doesn't matter if you train fasted or you train fed.

我认为现在大多数人都认为事实并非如此，当一个人禁食训练时，作为燃料的脂肪百分比可能会增加，但总的来说，就身体脂肪的减少而言，无论你是禁食训练还是进食训练，都没有关系。

Stacy Sims: Correct.

史黛西·西姆斯：正确。

Andrew Huberman: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

I think that can't be stated enough by experts like you.

我认为像您这样的专家对此的阐述还不够。

That doesn't mean that if one prefers to train fasted or with a minimum of food in their gut, that they can't do that.

这并不意味着如果一个人喜欢空腹或肠道内食物最少的情况下训练，他们就不能这样做。

I like to train fasted, but what I'm hearing is that women should probably ingest at least some protein, high-quality protein, and maybe drink the protein in a protein shake form if they don't want to ingest solid food.

我喜欢禁食训练，但我听说女性应该至少摄入一些蛋白质，高质量的蛋白质，如果她们不想摄入固体食物，也许可以喝蛋白质奶昔形式的蛋白质。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

I think the easiest way for people to understand the basic idea of what low energy is and how this affects men and women is when we are looking at a tipping point for endocrine dysfunction.

我认为，让人们了解低能量是什么以及它如何影响男性和女性的基本概念的最简单方法是当我们看到内分泌功能障碍的临界点时。

For men, we're seeing that tipping point at 15 calories per kilogram of fat-free mass.

对于男性来说，我们看到的临界点是每公斤去脂体重 15 卡路里。

For women, it's 30.

对于女性来说，是30岁。

So when we're looking at baseline calorie needs, before you really get into that endocrine dysfunction, when you're looking at those parameters, you can see why men do better in a fasted state or a low-calorie state.

因此，当我们查看基线热量需求时，在您真正陷入内分泌功能障碍之前，当您查看这些参数时，您可以明白为什么男性在禁食状态或低热量状态下表现更好。

But for women, our intake and especially our carbohydrate needs are so much higher because we have so many other functions that are reliant on that kisspeptin, upregulation or downregulation, preferably upregulation.

但对于女性来说，我们的摄入量，尤其是碳水化合物的需求要高得多，因为我们有很多其他功能依赖于 Kisspeptin，上调或下调，最好是上调。

So when we're just talking the basic calorie needs and what we're seeing, it's that dichotomy right there of 15 to 30.

因此，当我们只是谈论基本卡路里需求和我们所看到的情况时，这就是 15 到 30 卡路里的二分法。

And when you start telling people that, they're like, oh, okay, I get it.

当你开始告诉人们这一点时，他们会说，哦，好吧，我明白了。

Is that a biological aspect?

这是生物学方面吗？

It's like, well, you could trace it all the way back where men went out to get the calories in most tribes and the women were home, and it wasn't advantageous to be pregnant under low-calorie intake.

就好像，嗯，你可以追溯到大多数部落中男性外出获取卡路里而女性留在家里，在低卡路里摄入量的情况下怀孕并不有利。

That's why you have dysfunction when the calories are too low.

这就是为什么当卡路里太低时你会出现功能障碍。

But you can also feed forward to modern day now, and you're seeing that all this perturbance of hormone and the way we regulate hormone across the circadian rhythm requires more calories for women than it does for men.

但你现在也可以回顾一下现代，你会发现所有这些激素的扰动以及我们在昼夜节律中调节激素的方式需要女性比男性更多的卡路里。

Andrew Huberman: I know some men that basically don't eat all day and then eat one meal in the evening, and they'll train in the morning.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：我知道有些人基本上一整天都不吃东西，然后晚上吃一顿饭，然后他们会在早上训练。

That's inconceivable to me.

这对我来说是不可思议的。

Within an hour or so of training, I'm hungry.

训练后一个小时左右，我就饿了。

Which brings to mind and what we mean when we say training.

这让我想起了我们所说的培训的含义。

I'm a big believer in people, everybody getting, ideally, two or three resistance-training sessions in per week and two, maybe three cardiovascular-training sessions per week.

我非常相信人们，理想情况下，每个人每周进行两到三次阻力训练，每周进行两次甚至三次心血管训练。

That would be ideal.

那将是理想的。

One could potentially do more, probably not a whole lot less, before you run into long-term health issues that you could offset.

在您遇到可以抵消的长期健康问题之前，人们可能会做得更多，甚至可能不会少很多。

But I think most people can fit those in.

但我认为大多数人都可以适应这些。

And I'm very frankly delighted that nowadays there's such a push for women and men to resistance train.

坦白说，我很高兴现在人们大力推动女性和男性进行阻力训练。

That wasn't the case when I was growing up.

在我成长的过程中，情况并非如此。

You know, I recall taking my sister to the gym for the first time, and I think she was the only woman in the gym when we were in high school, except for a few female bodybuilders.

你知道，我记得第一次带我妹妹去健身房，我想她是我们高中时健身房里除了几个女健美运动员之外唯一的女性。

And she said, well, I don't want to look like that.

她说，好吧，我不想看起来像那样。

And I said, well, don't worry, you're not going to look like that.

我说，好吧，别担心，你不会看起来像那样。

But now you go to a gym and women are lifting weights, men are lifting weights.

但现在你去健身房，女人在举重，男人也在举重。

Stacy Sims: It's great.

史黛西·西姆斯：太棒了。

Andrew Huberman: It's terrific.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。

Stacy Sims: I've seen the evolution.

Stacy Sims：我已经看到了演变。

When I was 16, one of my friend's brothers was a bodybuilder, and he took us to the gym, kind of like what you did with your sister.

当我 16 岁的时候，我朋友的一个兄弟是一名健美运动员，他带我们去健身房，就像你和你姐姐一样。

And so both of us were like, oh, we want to beat those guys.

所以我们俩都想，哦，我们想击败那些家伙。

So we got into weight training with him.

所以我们和他一起开始了重量训练。

Not to be a bodybuilder, but it's been like the paramount throughout all of my athletic career.

不是成为一名健美运动员，但这在我整个运动生涯中都是最重要的。

Used to be I'd be the only woman on the lifting platform, and now it's like, you have to wait because there's so many women on the lifting platforms.

以前，我是升降平台上唯一的女性，而现在，你必须等待，因为升降平台上有很多女性。

I love it.

我喜欢它。

It's great.

这很棒。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, it's awesome.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，太棒了。

As I mentioned before, I've had female training partners and they kill it.

正如我之前提到的，我有过女性训练伙伴，但她们把它毁了。

It's a lot of fun to have a female training partner also, because not only is it cool to see the progress they can make really quickly, which surprises them often.

有一个女性训练伙伴也很有趣，因为看到她们快速取得进步不仅很酷，这常常让她们感到惊讶。

I think a lot of women think that, okay, it's going to require a external androgens or it's going, you know, and what you pointed out that there are some barriers to women putting on mass quickly.

我认为很多女性认为，好吧，这需要外部雄激素，或者它会发生，你知道，你指出，女性快速增加体重存在一些障碍。

I think I've noticed that strength increases can come really quickly.

我想我已经注意到力量的增加可以非常快。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Why is that?

安德鲁·休伯曼：这是为什么呢？

Stacy Sims: It's a central nervous system aspect.

Stacy Sims：这是中枢神经系统方面的问题。

There's a lot of, like, if we look at the culture of how a lot of us grew up, and I'm saying us, like 45 plus, right.

有很多，比如，如果我们看看我们很多人成长的文化，我说的是我们，比如 45 岁以上，对吧。

The women were all the 90s supermodels don't show muscle, that kind of stuff, so always been gravitated to cardio.

90 年代的女超模都不会展示肌肉之类的东西，所以总是被有氧运动所吸引。

Even now, if you go to a gym and you're a new member, you're signing up for a new member and you're a woman, they'll say, hey, great.

即使现在，如果你去健身房并且你是新会员，你正在注册新会员并且你是女性，他们会说，嘿，太棒了。

Here's all of our spin classes and our boxfits classes.

这是我们所有的旋转课程和 Boxfits 课程。

Andrew Huberman: We're still doing that.

Andrew Huberman：我们仍在这样做。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

And there's a cardiovascular machines.

还有心血管机器。

A guy comes in like, all right, how much do you want to put on?

一个人走进来说，好吧，你想穿多少钱？

Here are the lifting platforms, all the, you know, the weight training's at the back.

这里是升降平台，所有的重量训练都在后面。

Starting to see a shift with boutique-type gyms, but that's still the commonality there.

精品型健身房开始出现转变，但这仍然是那里的共性。

So it's still that little bit of taboo.

所以这仍然是一个小小的禁忌。

When women start strength training, they haven't been exposed to that kind of central nervous system stress before.

当女性开始力量训练时，她们以前从未接触过这种中枢神经系统压力。

And the whole aspect of getting the nerve and the acetylcholine, which are little vesicles that hold the ability for the nerve to actually stimulate the muscle fiber, all that gets trained really quickly.

获取神经和乙酰胆碱的整个过程，这些小囊泡具有神经实际刺激肌肉纤维的能力，所有这些都可以很快得到训练。

So the more that you train it and the more muscle fibers that are recruited for contraction, you see an increase in strength really rapidly and slowly building on that for increased muscle bulk because it takes a long time for women to put bulk on, because the driver for strength training is that central nervous system.

因此，你训练得越多，被招募来收缩的肌肉纤维就越多，你就会看到力量的增长非常迅速，并且在肌肉体积增加的基础上缓慢增长，因为女性需要很长时间才能增加体积，因为力量训练的驱动力是中枢神经系统。

So it's great when we see higher doses, more volume.

因此，当我们看到更高的剂量、更大的体积时，这真是太好了。

We aren't seeing huge hypertrophy.

我们没有看到巨大的肥大。

We're just seeing really good increases in strength.

我们刚刚看到力量确实有很好的增长。

Andrew Huberman: Whenever somebody, male or female, is concerned about growing too big too fast, I always remind them that resistance training is unique among different types of exercise, in that because of the blood flow to the muscle during the exercise session, the so called pump, you get a window, a transient window, but a window nonetheless, of what the hypertrophy could look like if you do everything else correctly in terms of recovery.

Andrew Huberman：每当有人，无论男性还是女性，担心长得太大太快时，我总是提醒他们，抗阻训练在不同类型的运动中是独一无二的，因为在运动过程中血液流向肌肉，即所谓的泵，你会得到一个窗口，一个短暂的窗口，但尽管如此，如果你在恢复方面做得正确，肥大可能会是什么样子。

So provided that the size of the muscle during the training session is not aversive to you, you're okay.

因此，只要训练期间肌肉的大小不令您反感，就可以了。

Stacy Sims: You're good.

史黛西·西姆斯：你很好。

Andrew Huberman: Which is unique among training.

Andrew Huberman：这在培训中是独一无二的。

It's not like when you go running, you get a sense of being much faster.

这不像当你跑步时，你会感觉到跑得更快。

You actually get the opposite effect.

你实际上会得到相反的效果。

You feel the burn in your lungs and the pain of hitting the wall of your limits, and then hopefully, if the adaptation takes place, then you can push past that next time.

你会感觉到肺部的灼烧感和触及极限的痛苦，然后希望，如果适应发生，那么你下次就能超越它。

But with resistance training, you get literally a physical picture and a, and a somatic feeling for what that hypertrophy could look like.

但通过阻力训练，你实际上可以得到一个物理图片和一个关于肥大可能是什么样子的身体感觉。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, that's why on your physique competitions and bodybuilding competitions, they're out the back pumping before they go on stage.

史黛西·西姆斯（Stacy Sims）：是的，这就是为什么在形体比赛和健美比赛中，他们在上台之前就在后面抽气。

Andrew Huberman: So we've been talking about training, but we haven't really spelled out what you would suggest a novice, perhaps an intermediate resistance training, cardiovascular training program would look like in broad terms.

Andrew Huberman：我们一直在谈论训练，但我们还没有真正阐明您对新手的建议，也许广义上的中级阻力训练、心血管训练计划是什么样子的。

I realize we don't have time here to get into all the nitty gritty details you've written about this elsewhere, and we'll refer people to those terrific resources in the show note captions, but what would you like to see women doing?

我意识到我们没有时间在这里详细了解您在其他地方写的所有细节，我们将向人们推荐节目注释标题中的那些很棒的资源，但是您希望看到女性做什么？

And maybe we can break up the age brackets, because it sounds like this is something that is resurfacing again and again here.

也许我们可以打破年龄段，因为这听起来像是在这里一次又一次重新出现的东西。

Women, let's say 30 and younger women, 31 to let's say 40, and then let's say 41 to 60, and then maybe 61 and on.

女性，比如说 30 岁及更年轻的女性，31 岁到 40 岁，然后是 41 岁到 60 岁，然后可能是 61 岁及以上。

In terms of how many sessions of resistance training per week, is it whole body training?

每周进行多少次阻力训练，算是全身训练吗？

How many sessions of cardiovascular training and what sorts of examples could you give?

您可以提供多少次心血管训练以及什么样的例子？

Stacy Sims: Yeah, so if we're looking at that 20, 20-to-30-year-old, a lot of times I really try to get them to focus on the whole movement aspect first.

Stacy Sims：是的，所以如果我们关注的是 20 岁、20 到 30 岁的人，很多时候我真的会尝试让他们首先关注整个运动方面。

So we phase them in.

所以我们将它们逐步引入。

Same with older women.

老年妇女也一样。

Phase them in, learn how to move, learn complex movements so that when you are going in to do resistance training, preferably three to four times a week, you can look at moving well.

分阶段进行，学习如何移动，学习复杂的动作，这样当你开始进行阻力训练时，最好每周进行三到四次，你就可以看到移动得很好。

And it doesn't have to be a long period of time if you're doing to failure, which works really well when you're younger, to increase strength and a little bit of hypertrophy, you're going to have to spend a little bit more time in the gym.

如果你要力竭的话，这并不需要很长时间，这在你年轻的时候非常有效，为了增加力量和一点点肥大，你将不得不在健身房多花一点时间。

So it might be 45 to 60 minutes.

所以可能需要 45 到 60 分钟。

When we're looking at doing that four times a week, you can add in a sprint interval training at the end of one of those to get that super high intensity, or you can look at putting in at the most two HIT sessions from on separate days if you're training specifically for something.

当我们考虑每周进行四次时，您可以在其中一次训练结束时添加冲刺间歇训练，以获得超高强度，或者如果您专门针对某项训练，您可以考虑在不同的日子里进行最多两次 HIT 训练。

So if I work with a lot of endurance athletes still, and they're like, well, how do I fit it in?

因此，如果我仍然与很多耐力运动员一起工作，他们会说，好吧，我该如何适应？

It's like, okay, well, we look at the quality and how that fits into your training.

就像，好吧，我们会关注质量以及它如何适合您的训练。

So if you're training for a marathon, you're training for a triathlon or, or other endurance stuff, you can take that high-intensity work and put it into your training program.

因此，如果您正在训练马拉松、铁人三项或其他耐力项目，您可以进行高强度训练并将其纳入您的训练计划中。

So ideally, we look at three to four resistance training with really good movement when we're in the younger set with too high intensities.

因此，理想情况下，当我们处于强度过高的年轻组中时，我们会考虑进行三到四次阻力训练，这些训练的动作非常好。

When we start getting into our 30s, we start having an eye to how are we actually doing that resistance training instead of just going and doing a circuit, we're really focusing on, let's do some compound movements, let's look at doing some heavier work.

当我们开始进入 30 多岁时，我们开始关注我们实际上是如何进行阻力训练的，而不是仅仅进行循环训练，我们真正关注的是，让我们做一些复合动作，让我们看看做一些更重的工作。

Let's look at how we are periodizing.

让我们看看我们是如何划分周期的。

So we're having six-week blocks, and we're building on those blocks because we want that base foundation.

所以我们有六周的时间段，我们在这些时间段的基础上进行构建，因为我们想要这个基础。

So when we get to be 40 plus, we can actually go and do our power-based training.

所以当我们到了40多岁的时候，我们实际上可以去进行基于力量的训练。

If you're in your 40s, you've never done resistance training at all.

如果您 40 多岁，那么您根本从未进行过阻力训练。

Then we take between two weeks to four months to really learn how to move well, because there's a higher incidence of soft tissue injury and overall injury as we get into our 40s because of perturbations of estrogen.

然后我们需要两周到四个月的时间来真正学习如何良好地运动，因为当我们进入 40 多岁时，由于雌激素的扰动，软组织损伤和整体损伤的发生率会更高。

And ideally, when we get there, we're looking at that around three minimum three resistance training with compound movements and either one sprint interval or two sprint intervals, and one HIT in a week.

理想情况下，当我们到达那里时，我们会考虑进行至少三项至少三项阻力训练，包括复合动作、一次冲刺间隔或两次冲刺间隔，以及一周一次的 HIT。

Andrew Huberman: And just to remind people, compound movements, multijoint movements, squats, deadlifts, chin ups, rows, overhead presses, bench presses, etc. As opposed to isolation movements where only one joint is moving.

Andrew Huberman：只是提醒人们，复合运动、多关节运动、深蹲、硬拉、引体向上、划船、过头推举、卧推等。与只有一个关节运动的孤立运动相反。

And for everybody, in all those age ranges that you describe, are you suggesting they train the same muscle groups three or four times per week, or they do some sort of split where it's upper body, lower body, take a day off, or upper body, take a day off, lower body, take a day off?

对于您所描述的所有年龄段的每个人来说，您是否建议他们每周训练相同的肌肉群三到四次，或者他们进行某种形式的分割，即上半身，下半身，休息一天，或上半身，休息一天，下半身，休息一天？

What might work for them?

什么可能对他们有用？

Stacy Sims: Yeah, what works for them.

Stacy Sims：是的，什么对他们有用。

If you're looking for short amount of time in the gym because of busy lives, and you can split it if you're looking at, okay, well, I can allocate an hour to an hour and a half in the gym, then you can do total body with adequate rest.

如果你因为忙碌的生活而想在健身房呆很短的时间，你可以把它分开，如果你想，好吧，好吧，我可以在健身房分配一个小时到一个半小时，然后你就可以在充分休息的情况下锻炼全身。

The key when you're younger is working to failure.

年轻时的关键是努力到失败。

The key when you're older is working heavy.

当你年纪大的时候，关键是做繁重的工作。

Andrew Huberman: Interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：有趣。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

So when we're looking at working to failure, we're trying to get more of that lean mass growth with strength when we get older because it's so difficult to put on lean mass, we really want to focus on the strength component because that becomes more important when we're talking about longevity.

因此，当我们考虑努力工作到失败时，当我们变老时，我们会尝试通过力量来获得更多的瘦体重增长，因为增加瘦体重非常困难，我们真的想关注力量部分，因为当我们谈论长寿时，这变得更加重要。

Because if you're looking at the strength component from a central nervous system standpoint, we see it feeds forward into better proprioception, attenuation of cognitive decline.

因为如果你从中枢神经系统的角度来看力量成分，我们会发现它会促进更好的本体感觉，减缓认知能力下降。

And this is the other thing that you, in neuroscience, would understand, the sex differences in things like dementia and Alzheimer's.

这是神经科学领域你会理解的另一件事，即痴呆症和阿尔茨海默氏症等疾病的性别差异。

There's some really interesting research looking at strength training and that power-based stuff when we're getting into our older ages, because we get more neural growth patterns and more neural pathways.

有一些非常有趣的研究着眼于当我们进入老年时进行力量训练和基于力量的东西，因为我们会获得更多的神经生长模式和更多的神经通路。

Andrew Huberman: Even some interesting literature about emphasizing some unilateral movements as people get older, not just dual limb movements or dual limb simultaneous movements.

Andrew Huberman：甚至一些有趣的文献都强调随着人们年龄的增长，一些单侧运动，而不仅仅是双肢运动或双肢同时运动。

You always want to train both sides of your body, folks.

伙计们，你总是想训练身体的两侧。

But.

但。

So if I understand correctly, younger women should train to failure, try and generate strength and hypertrophy.

因此，如果我理解正确的话，年轻女性应该训练到力竭，尝试产生力量和肥大。

As women get older, they should emphasize more strength training, leave some repetitions in reserve, but train heavier.

随着女性年龄的增长，她们应该强调更多的力量训练，保留一些重复次数，但训练强度更大。

It makes so much sense, what you're saying because what we know about the nervous system as we age is that there's some atrophy, or at least some weakening of neuromuscular connections and the upper motor neurons in the brain that control the neuromuscular connections in the spinal cord out to the muscle.

你所说的很有道理，因为随着年龄的增长，我们对神经系统的了解是，神经肌肉连接和大脑中控制脊髓到肌肉的神经肌肉连接的上运动神经元会出现一些萎缩，或者至少会减弱。

There's something really sticky about this idea in terms of longevity that I don't think anyone else has ever said.

就长寿而言，这个想法确实有一些粘性，我认为其他人从未说过。

Stacy Sims: No. The thing about it is men age more in a linear fashion, whereas women, we have a definitive point in our late 40s, early 50s, where all of a sudden things go to shit, where it's that perimenopausal state.

Stacy Sims：不。问题是男性的衰老速度呈线性增长，而女性则在 40 岁末、50 岁出头有一个明确的点，突然之间事情就会变得糟糕，这就是围绝经期状态。

And I can't tell you how many emails and DMs I get in a day from women who are like, I'm 46, or I'm 47, I'm putting on body fat, I don't know what's going on, I can't sleep.

我无法告诉你我一天会收到多少封来自女性的电子邮件和私信，她们说，我已经 46 岁了，或者我已经 47 岁了，我的身体越来越胖，我不知道发生了什么，我无法入睡。

And then we say it's perimenopause.

然后我们说这是围绝经期。

What is that?

那是什么？

When we're looking at perimenopause, it is a huge change in the body because you're having less and less of your sex hormone circulating.

当我们观察围绝经期时，身体会发生巨大变化，因为循环中的性激素越来越少。

More and more anovulatory cycles means no progesterone or very low progesterone.

越来越多的无排卵周期意味着没有黄体酮或黄体酮非常低。

You're having a difference in the pulse of your estradiol to those flat line aspects.

您的雌二醇脉冲与那些平线方面存在差异。

And because every system in the body is affected by it.

因为身体的每个系统都会受到它的影响。

This is why you see more soft tissue injuries.

这就是为什么您会看到更多的软组织损伤。

Like, two of the biggest things that women who are in their 40s are going to PTs about are frozen shoulder and plantar fascia.

比如，40 多岁的女性去 PT 时最关心的两个问题是肩周炎和足底筋膜。

Those are two really indicative issues that are happening in perimenopause.

这是围绝经期发生的两个真正具有代表性的问题。

So that whole section of mid-40s to early 50s is a definitive aging point where I really try to get women to get into the heavy lifting and get into the patterns of polarizing their training, not putting an emphasis on zone 2, just really looking at how am I polarizing, how am I affecting my central nervous system, so that when they get into that one point in time of that perimenopause, their body is already conditioned for the stress that's coming.

因此，从 40 多岁到 50 岁出头的整个时期是一个明确的衰老点，在这个阶段，我真的试图让女性进行举重运动，进入极化训练模式，而不是把重点放在第 2 区，只是真正关注我是如何极化的，我如何影响我的中枢神经系统，这样当她们进入围绝经期的那个时间点时，她们的身体就已经适应了即将到来的压力。

Whereas men, we see that kind of stuff happens in their late 50s, early 60s.

而男性，我们看到这种事情发生在 50 岁末、60 岁出头的时候。

So the soft tissue injuries, the change in body comp comes at a later time.

所以软组织损伤、身体成分的变化是后来发生的。

So, yes, looking at how we're scoping our strength training, definitely something to think about in a longevity factor.

所以，是的，看看我们如何确定力量训练的范围，这绝对是长寿因素中需要考虑的事情。

But for women, there's a better indication of the timing across the ages of when you should start implementing.

但对于女性来说，有更好的指示表明您应该开始实施的各个年龄段的时机。

For men, I think you have a better bandwidth of when you should start implementing.

对于男性来说，我认为你有更好的带宽来决定何时开始实施。

Andrew Huberman: For women who are not on hormone replacement therapy.

Andrew Huberman：针对未接受激素替代疗法的女性。

And we did a previous episode about perimenopause, menopause and hormone replacement therapy.

我们之前做了一期关于围绝经期、更年期和激素替代疗法的节目。

But if it comes up again and again today, that would be wonderful because these are important under discussed topics.

但如果今天它一次又一次地出现，那就太好了，因为这些都是正在讨论的重要话题。

Stacy Sims: Absolutely.

史黛西·西姆斯：当然。

Andrew Huberman: For women that are not on hormone replacement therapy who decide to train heavier, maybe do a bit more training volume, not train to failure, they're making sure to not let their cortisol spike too much by making sure they have some preworkout nutrition, some postworkout nutrition, would they be wise to be very careful in how much cardiovascular exercise they add to that?

Andrew Huberman：对于那些没有接受激素替代疗法的女性来说，她们决定进行更重的训练，也许会做更多的训练量，而不是训练到力竭，她们通过确保自己有一些锻炼前的营养和一些锻炼后的营养来确保不让皮质醇飙升太多，她们明智的做法是在增加多少心血管运动时非常小心？

Meaning there seems to always be this risk of overtraining.

这意味着过度训练的风险似乎总是存在。

And as you pointed out, for various reasons, cultural reasons, historical reasons around exercise, my observation is that most women, sort of, unless they know better, default to cardiovascular exercise as opposed to resistance training.

正如您所指出的，由于各种原因、文化原因、运动的历史原因，我的观察是，大多数女性，除非她们更了解，否则默认进行心血管运动而不是阻力训练。

So if a woman in her 40s, late 30s to let's say 50, is doing two to four sessions of resistance training workouts per week, and they also really like cardio, or they feel they want to or should do cardio, should they be careful about how much cardio they're doing?

因此，如果一位 40 多岁、30 多岁甚至 50 多岁的女性每周进行两到四次阻力训练，并且她们也非常喜欢有氧运动，或者她们觉得自己想要或应该做有氧运动，那么她们应该注意自己做的有氧运动量吗？

And is there a best form of cardio?

有没有最好的有氧运动形式？

Should they, should they really emphasize the high intensity interval training?

他们应该、真的应该强调高强度间歇训练吗？

Should they avoid zone 2?

他们应该避开2区吗？

We should probably also define for people what zone 2 is if they don't already know.

如果人们还不知道，我们或许还应该为人们定义什么是区域 2。

Stacy Sims: So I am notorious for slamming things like Orangetheory and F45 because they market specifically to that age group of women and it's not appropriate because it's not true high-intensity work.

Stacy Sims：我因猛烈抨击 Orangetheory 和 F45 等公司而臭名昭著，因为它们专门针对该年龄段的女性进行营销，而这并不合适，因为这不是真正的高强度工作。

When we're looking at women who are really trying to maximize body composition, change and longevity, unfortunately, default to cardio because they think, oh, that's going to help change my body composition, it's going to help me lose body fat.

不幸的是，当我们看到那些真正试图最大化身体成分、改变和长寿的女性时，她们默认进行有氧运动，因为她们认为，哦，这将有助于改变我的身体成分，它将帮助我减少体内脂肪。

It doesn't.

事实并非如此。

Andrew Huberman: Is this things like SoulCycle as well?

Andrew Huberman：这也是像 SoulCycle 一样的东西吗？

I've never done any of these, but I imagine there's a lot of spinning, a lot of moving, a lot of sweating and a lot of "calories burned" emphasis.

我从来没有做过这些，但我想有很多旋转，很多移动，很多出汗和很多“卡路里燃烧”强调。

Stacy Sims: Yes, there is, but it puts women squarely in moderate intensity, where they're so used to leaving one of those classes feeling absolutely smashed that when you tell them, actually, that training doesn't work for you because it's putting you in a state of intensity that drives cortisol up.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，有，但它让女性处于中等强度，她们已经习惯了离开其中一堂课时感觉完全崩溃了，以至于当你告诉她们时，实际上，训练对你不起作用，因为它会让你处于一种导致皮质醇升高的强度状态。

But it's not a strong enough stress to invoke the postexercise growth hormone and testosterone responses that we want to dampen that cortisol.

但这还不足以引起我们想要抑制皮质醇的运动后生长激素和睾酮反应。

So this is why we have that hyperbole of women who are in their 40s plus shouldn't do high-intensity work.

所以这就是为什么我们夸大40多岁的女性不应该从事高强度工作的原因。

It's like, well, actually, they shouldn't do moderate intensity.

就像，嗯，实际上，他们不应该做中等强度的运动。

They need to avoid that.

他们需要避免这种情况。

Polarizing, absolutely.

绝对是两极分化。

That's what we want.

这就是我们想要的。

We want true high-intensity work, which is one to four minutes of 80% or more.

我们想要真正的高强度工作，即一到四分钟的时间达到 80% 或更多。

Or if you're doing sprint interval, it's full gas for 30 seconds or less, and you're doing that a couple of times a week.

或者，如果您正在进行冲刺间歇训练，则需要充满气 30 秒或更短时间，并且您每周会这样做几次。

You're not doing it every day because you need to have enough recovery to hit those intensities, truly, because those are the intensities that are going to give you those postexercise hormonal responses to drop cortisol.

你并不是每天都这样做，因为你需要有足够的恢复来达到这些强度，确实，因为这些强度会给你带来运动后荷尔蒙反应以降低皮质醇。

When we're looking at women who are like, oh, well, I love going out for hours and hours on my bike, and I love doing my spin classes, it's like, okay, but we need to look at the big rock here.

当我们看到那些像“哦，好吧，我喜欢骑自行车出去几个小时，而且我喜欢参加动感单车课程”的女性时，就像，好吧，但我们需要看看这里的大石头。

If you are looking for longevity and body composition change and cognition and all those things, you have to polarize your training, and that has to be the focus.

如果你正在寻找长寿、身体成分改变和认知以及所有这些东西，你必须极化你的训练，这必须成为焦点。

But soul food, like, I come from a long background of endurance.

但灵魂食物，比如，我来自于长期的忍耐力背景。

I now love riding my gravel bike on the weekends for long periods of time, which is not optimal for me, my age, that kind of stuff, for all the things that I want to see improvements in.

我现在喜欢在周末长时间骑碎石自行车，这对我、我的年龄、诸如此类的事情以及我希望看到改进的所有事情来说都不是最佳选择。

But mentally, it's great.

但从精神上来说，这很棒。

So when we talk about going out for that long stuff, zone 2 is at low conversation, and that's fine for mental health and being out in nature for optimal health and well-being, we don't want to do that.

因此，当我们谈论外出做那么长时间的事情时，第 2 区的谈话量很少，这对心理健康来说很好，并且在大自然中获得最佳的健康和福祉，我们不想这样做。

We want to look at resistance training as a bedrock and true high-intensity work to help with body composition, change, metabolic control, insulin sensitivity, brain health and dropping that cortisol.

我们希望将阻力训练视为基础和真正的高强度训练，以帮助改善身体成分、改变、代谢控制、胰岛素敏感性、大脑健康和降低皮质醇。

Andrew Huberman: I have family members who are women who are thin because they love to walk, and they just walk a ton and they eat well and enough, but they are resistant to resistance training.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我的家庭成员都是女性，她们很瘦，因为她们喜欢走路，她们只走很多路，吃得又好又够，但她们对阻力训练有抵抗力。

And if they do pick up a weight, it's usually some very light dumbbells, do a few curls, a couple tricep extensions, and aren't really leaning into the higher intensity work.

如果他们确实拿起了重量，通常是一些非常轻的哑铃，做一些弯举，几次三头肌伸展，并且并不真正倾向于更高强度的工作。

I think this is pretty common.

我认为这很常见。

And my observation is that it's common, not because they couldn't be incentivized to do the higher intensity work.

我的观察是，这种情况很常见，并不是因为他们没有动力去做更高强度的工作。

But that learning the complex compound movements, like how to squat properly or even leg press properly, deadlift properly, can be a bit overwhelming, especially when one walks into a gym.

但是学习复杂的复合动作，比如如何正确深蹲，甚至如何正确压腿，如何正确硬拉，可能会有点让人不知所措，尤其是当一个人走进健身房时。

This is true for men, too.

对于男性来说也是如此。

All this stuff, all this equipment, all these bodies, and these people look like they know what they're doing.

所有这些东西，所有这些设备，所有这些身体，以及这些人看起来他们知道自己在做什么。

Like, if I were to go into an advanced, like, kitchen or symphony and, you know, all these instruments, I don't know how to play.

就像，如果我要进入一个高级的厨房或交响乐，你知道，所有这些乐器，我不知道如何演奏。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: So what's the best line of attack for somebody who really wants to overcome this longevity barrier?

安德鲁·休伯曼：那么对于真正想要克服这一长寿障碍的人来说，最好的攻击路线是什么？

Because clearly, resistance training, proper nutrition work, and the cardiovascular exercise piece is a little bit more intuitive.

因为显然，阻力训练、适当的营养工作和心血管锻炼部分更直观一些。

Walking, you do it faster.

走路，你会走得更快。

You're jogging, you do it faster.

你在慢跑，你跑得更快。

You're running.

你正在跑步。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，是的。

Andrew Huberman: The bike, the SoulCycle class, etc. It's easier in terms of the mechanics.

Andrew Huberman：自行车、SoulCycle 类等。在机械方面更容易。

One can still get hurt, but it's just more straightforward.

人们仍然可能会受伤，但只是更简单。

Is there a way that, in the absence of a budget for a personal trainer, that somebody can learn how to do these movements and, as you said, ease into them over the course of even up to four months in a way that they can be confident that they're unlikely to get hurt and really build up their capacity to do real work that can benefit them?

在没有私人教练预算的情况下，有没有一种方法可以让人们学习如何做这些动作，并且正如你所说，在长达四个月的时间里轻松地进行这些动作，这样他们就可以确信自己不太可能受伤，并真正增强自己的能力，去做真正有益于他们的工作？

Stacy Sims: Yeah, this is where...

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，这就是……

I love technology, for one thing.

一方面，我热爱科技。

But if we're staying really basic, I look at some of my family members, and I've gotten them started with just body weight stuff or loading a backpack with cans to add a little bit of resistance so they feel comfortable in their own house, and they might be doing lunges or squats, just keying them up of, like, where foot placement, and knee and that kind of stuff.

但如果我们保持真正的基础，我会看看我的一些家庭成员，我已经让他们开始只承受体重的东西，或者在背包里装上罐子来增加一点阻力，这样他们在自己的房子里感觉舒服，他们可能会做弓步或深蹲，只是调整他们的位置，比如脚的放置位置，膝盖和类似的东西。

So they're getting used to that kind of movement.

所以他们正在习惯这种运动。

I love Kelly Starrett's stuff with mobility.

我喜欢 Kelly Starrett 的机动性作品。

So show them, like, here's how we do some of the mobility to find where the sticking points are.

所以向他们展示，比如，我们如何进行一些机动性来找到症结所在。

And then you can either direct them to some of the programs that are out there that, like Hailey Happens has some really good ones for women who are 40 plus.

然后你可以引导他们观看一些现有的节目，比如 Hailey Happens 有一些非常适合 40 岁以上女性的节目。

So does Bree, and then Sonny Webster down in Australia, you can send in a video of what you're doing, and he can critique you and tell you things to do.

Bree 也是如此，然后澳大利亚的 Sonny Webster 也是如此，你可以发送你正在做的事情的视频，他可以批评你并告诉你要做的事情。

There are other programs like that, too, so there's lots of ways of getting help if you seek it.

还有其他类似的计划，因此如果您寻求帮助，可以通过多种方式获得帮助。

The personal trainer is very much a stumbling block for a lot of people.

对于很多人来说，私人教练是一个绊脚石。

And as much as I am not a fan of Planet Fitness, I am a fan of the fact that they've made it really easy for someone to walk in who's interested in resistance training.

尽管我不是 Planet Fitness 的粉丝，但我很喜欢他们让那些对阻力训练感兴趣的人很容易走进去。

And they can go to a circuit, one of the circuit things that they have at the back, and they can start resistance training on machines, which is another level up to learning compound movements.

他们可以去循环赛，他们后面有一个循环赛，他们可以在机器上开始阻力训练，这是学习复合动作的另一个层次。

So there's lots of ways of breaking that barrier to entry.

因此，有很多方法可以打破进入壁垒。

You just have to find the motivation factor of what's going to incentivize the person to give up their time walking every day and taking time to go to the gym or taking time to do garage-based stuff that's going to improve their lean mass.

你只需要找到激励因素，激励人们放弃每天步行的时间，花时间去健身房，或者花时间做车库里的事情，以改善他们的瘦体重。

Andrew Huberman: I'm a big fan of machines, especially plate-loaded machines, but machines just create the close to correct or correct arc of movement.

Andrew Huberman：我是机器的忠实粉丝，尤其是平板式机器，但机器只是创建接近正确或正确的运动弧线。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

For your size.

适合您的尺寸。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah exactly.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，确实如此。

And to really spend the time adjusting the seat height, adjusting the various pins on the machine, not just the weight, in order to make sure that one gets the best range of motion.

真正花时间调整座椅高度，调整机器上的各种销钉，而不仅仅是重量，以确保获得最佳的运动范围。

I think this is something small, but that is significant in terms of its impact.

我认为这虽然是一件小事，但其影响却是重大的。

People just plop down in a machine, especially if you're working in with somebody and feel, especially beginners will feel pressured to move quickly and they won't adjust the seat height.

人们只是趴在机器上，特别是当你和某人一起工作时，尤其是初学者会感到快速移动的压力，并且他们不会调整座椅高度。

And so it's just all wrong for them.

所以这对他们来说都是错误的。

And all it takes is a little bit of time to and ask people how to adjust the machines.

所需要的只是一点时间并询问人们如何调整机器。

Stacy Sims: I'm also a fan of kettlebells in the garage or lighter dumbbells that you can do like thrusters or hang cleans or something like that to get the momentum and movement feeling, because that's another good learning curve for people.

Stacy Sims：我也很喜欢车库里的壶铃或较轻的哑铃，你可以用它们来做推进器或高翻或类似的动作，以获得动力和运动感觉，因为这对人们来说是另一个很好的学习曲线。

So, like I said, there's lots of ways that you can implement things based on someone's intuitive like or dislike of resistance training.

所以，就像我说的，有很多方法可以根据某人对阻力训练的直觉喜欢或不喜欢来实施事情。

Andrew Huberman: So you've mentioned polarized training.

Andrew Huberman：所以你提到了极化训练。

If I understand correctly, this would be a woman doing three or four days of high intensity resistance training for 45 to 60 or 45 to 75 minutes per session, and then at the opposite extreme, maybe just walking a lot or jogging a lot.

如果我理解正确的话，这将是一名女性进行三到四天的高强度阻力训练，每次训练 45 到 60 或 45 到 75 分钟，然后在另一个极端，可能只是大量步行或慢跑。

So is that what you're talking about?

那么这就是你所说的吗？

Polarized training, as opposed to these other forms of training, where it's designed to get people sweating like crazy, breathing hard for long periods of time, but neither putting them in the landscape of inducing muscle strength adaptations and hypertrophy adaptations, nor really taxing the cardiovascular system enough to create an increase in longevity, for instance.

极化训练与其他形式的训练相反，它的目的是让人们疯狂出汗、长时间呼吸困难，但既不会让他们产生肌肉力量适应和肥大适应，也不会真正对心血管系统造成足够的负担，从而延长寿命。

Stacy Sims: When I talk about polarizing, I look at the high intensity strength, like, that's really hard on the central nervous system.

史黛西·西姆斯（Stacy Sims）：当我谈论极化时，我会关注高强度强度，这对中枢神经系统来说真的很难。

And then we look from a cardiovascular standpoint of doing true high intensity work.

然后我们从心血管的角度来看真正的高强度工作。

So the walking is more of the recovery.

所以步行更多的是恢复。

So if you're going to go out and do something long, it has to be very, very easy.

因此，如果你要出去做一些长期的事情，它必须非常非常容易。

If you are looking at cardiovascular and you want that big sweat, then we are talking true sprint-interval training.

如果您正在关注心血管并且想要大量出汗，那么我们正在谈论真正的冲刺间歇训练。

So what I have a lot of women do is a 20 minutes lower body heavy set, and then they'll go on the assault bike and do as hard as they can for 30 seconds and then recover as much as they need to to go, then do another 30 seconds as hard as they can.

所以我让很多女性做的是 20 分钟的下半身大重量训练，然后她们会骑上突击自行车，尽可能努力地做 30 秒，然后尽可能地恢复，然后再尽可能努力地做 30 秒。

Most people go, oh, I can do four or five of those.

大多数人都会说，哦，我可以做四到五个。

After two, they're completely gassed because it's that hard of work.

两点之后，他们就彻底气坏了，因为工作太辛苦了。

And that's what I mean by polarization.

这就是我所说的两极分化的意思。

You have very, very low intensity for recovery, and super, super high intensity for metabolic and cardiovascular changes is what we're after.

你的恢复强度非常非常低，而代谢和心血管变化的强度非常非常高，这就是我们所追求的。

Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break to let you know that the Huberman Lab team has launched a new podcast with host Doctor Andy Galpin.

Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下，让您知道 Huberman 实验室团队已经与主持人 Andy Galpin 博士一起推出了一个新的播客。

Andy is an expert in exercise science and human performance, and has long been a fan favorite on the Huberman Lab podcast.

安迪是运动科学和人类表现方面的专家，长期以来一直是休伯曼实验室播客上的粉丝最爱。

This new podcast is called "Perform with Dr. Andy Galpin,"  and it dives into topics such as how to build muscle and strength, how to improve your cardiovascular health, and how to optimize recovery and sleep for performance, and much more.

这个新播客名为“与安迪·加尔平博士一起表演”，它深入探讨了如何增强肌肉和力量、如何改善心血管健康以及如何优化恢复和睡眠以提高表现等主题。

Andy is an absolutely fantastic educator and true expert on all things human performance.

安迪是一位绝对出色的教育家，也是人类表现方面真正的专家。

I know you'll thoroughly enjoy his new podcast and learn a ton of useful knowledge from it, so please check it out and give it a subscribe wherever you're watching or listening to podcasts.

我知道您会非常喜欢他的新播客，并从中学到大量有用的知识，所以无论您在观看或收听播客时，请查看并订阅它。

Now again, the podcast is called "Perform with Dr. Andy Galpin."

现在，该播客再次被称为“与安迪·加尔平博士一起表演”。

Let's talk about the menstrual cycle and how that impacts training at the level of psychology and physiology, meaning...

让我们谈谈月经周期以及它如何影响心理学和生理学层面的训练，这意味着......

And of course, the two are linked.

当然，这两者是相互联系的。

They're inextricably linked.

它们有着千丝万缕的联系。

For instance, is there a particular phase of the menstrual cycle where a woman should expect that motivation and/or recovery would be more challenging?

例如，在月经周期的某个特定阶段，女性是否应该预期动力和/或恢复会更具挑战性？

Stacy Sims: So this is the sticky point of recent science, because we see all these research studies and meta-analyses that are coming out of the sports science literature saying that there is no effect of the menstrual cycle on anything.

史黛西·西姆斯：所以这是最近科学的难点，因为我们看到所有这些来自运动科学文献的研究和荟萃分析都表明月经周期对任何事情都没有影响。

When you look at that population, it is specifically eumenorrheic women, might have a subject pool of 10, if you're lucky, 12.

当你观察这个人群时，你会发现，特别是月经正常的女性，主题库可能有 10 个，如果幸运的话，有 12 个。

Andrew Huberman: So this is women who have "normal menstrual cycles."

安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以这是有“正常月经周期”的女性。

Stacy Sims: Supposedly ovulating, so they have a definitive low hormone and high hormone phase.

Stacy Sims：据说是在排卵，所以他们有一个明确的低激素和高激素阶段。

Andrew Huberman: And this is probably because these studies are being done on university campuses with college undergraduate women.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这可能是因为这些研究是在大学校园内针对女大学生进行的。

Stacy Sims: Yes, exactly.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，完全正确。

Andrew Huberman: Which typically is in a given age range.

Andrew Huberman：这通常是在给定的年龄范围内。

Stacy Sims: Right.

史黛西·西姆斯：对。

And they look at performance, meaning that one point in time, and we know that psychologically you can perform at any point in the menstrual cycle, unless you have something like heavy menstrual bleeding.

他们关注表现，即某个时间点，我们知道从心理上讲，你可以在月经周期的任何时刻表现出色，除非你有月经出血量大之类的情况。

When we're looking at a higher touch and looking not only from a molecular aspect, but also pulling in mixed methods and looking at the qualitative, we need women to track their own cycle and find their own patterns, because we know that there are times where you feel like crap and you can't push intensity.

当我们着眼于更高层次的接触时，不仅从分子方面看，而且还引入混合方法并着眼于定性，我们需要女性跟踪她们自己的周期并找到她们自己的模式，因为我们知道有时你会感觉很糟糕，而且你无法提高强度。

But that might be on day eight for one woman, it might be day 18 for another.

但对于一名女性来说，这可能是第八天，对于另一名女性来说，这可能是第十八天。

From a molecular standpoint, we know that the low hormone phase, being day one, is the first day of bleeding up through ovulation, which is midway through your cycle.

从分子的角度来看，我们知道低激素阶段，即第一天，是排卵期出血的第一天，排卵期是月经周期的中期。

You have a greater capacity for pulling in and accommodating stress, physical and mental stress.

你有更强的能力来吸收和适应压力、身体和精神压力。

So if we're looking at doing heavier loads, we're looking at doing high-intensity work, we're looking at motivation, then that low hormone phase is really optimal for trying to hit a PR or trying to hit a new speed, because you can take on that stress and your immune system handles it.

因此，如果我们正在考虑做更重的负荷，我们正在考虑做高强度的工作，我们正在考虑动力，那么低激素阶段对于尝试达到 PR 或尝试达到新的速度来说确实是最佳选择，因为你可以承受这种压力，而你的免疫系统会处理它。

Your muscles handle it, your core temperature, everything handles it.

你的肌肉可以处理它，你的核心温度，一切都可以处理它。

Andrew Huberman: So for most women, in the weeks before their period, they're going to feel more robust, except right up until the point of menstruation, or the inverse.

安德鲁·休伯曼：所以对于大多数女性来说，在经期前几周，她们会感觉更强壮，除非是在经期之前，或者相反。

Stacy Sims: It is day one, bleeding, up through mid-cycle, that I feel great.

Stacy Sims：从第一天开始，一直流血，直到周期中期，我感觉很棒。

The sticky point comes, not every woman ovulates.

关键点来了，不是每个女人都会排卵。

And this is a thing when we're looking at general pop — we have lifestyle stress, we have nutrition stress.

当我们审视一般流行音乐时，这就是一个问题——我们有生活方式压力，我们有营养压力。

We know that women, for the most part, have four to five anovulatory cycles a year.

我们知道，大多数女性每年有四到五个无排卵周期。

This is where, when you're looking at that high hormone phase, we can't say you're definitively in the high hormone phase.

这就是当您看到高激素阶段时，我们不能说您肯定处于高激素阶段。

So this is where we need women to track their own cycles and understand their own patterns.

因此，这就是我们需要女性跟踪自己的周期并了解自己的模式的地方。

Because in an ideal world, we know that in the luteal phase, this is where we have the most change, where we have a proinflammatory response from the immune system, we have inability to access carbohydrate as well.

因为在理想的世界中，我们知道在黄体期，这是我们变化最大的阶段，免疫系统会产生促炎反应，我们也无法获取碳水化合物。

We have a higher sympathetic drive.

我们有更高的同情心。

So there's lots of things in there that are, aren't so fantastic for accommodating stress.

所以里面有很多东西对于缓解压力来说并不是那么好。

Andrew Huberman: So, broadly speaking, the luteal phase is associated with more cortisol, more kind of baseline levels of stress.

Andrew Huberman：所以，从广义上讲，黄体期与更多的皮质醇、更多的基线压力水平相关。

Would it make sense for a woman to try and offset some of that with a bit more nutrition during that phase, a bit more, perhaps complex carbohydrate.

对于女性来说，在这个阶段尝试通过多一点营养，多一点，也许是复合碳水化合物来抵消其中的一些影响是否有意义。

We know that some complex carbohydrate can blunt some of the cortisol response, maybe just even a little bit more attention to eating.

我们知道，一些复杂的碳水化合物可以减弱一些皮质醇的反应，甚至可能只是稍微多注意饮食即可。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, absolutely.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，绝对是。

I mean, core temperature goes up, but the whole goal of the luteal phase is to build tissue.

我的意思是，核心温度升高，但黄体期的整个目标是构建组织。

So this is where we're seeing a lot of shuttling of carbohydrate and amino acids to go to build that endometrial lining.

因此，我们在这里看到大量碳水化合物和氨基酸来构建子宫内膜。

And that's the whole goal.

这就是全部目标。

So, yes, you need to eat more protein.

所以，是的，你需要吃更多的蛋白质。

You need to eat more carbohydrate.

你需要吃更多的碳水化合物。

But again, the sticking point is, did you ovulate or not?

但问题又来了，你排卵了吗？

So if you aren't aware of if you ovulated or not, you're tracking your own patterns, then just be acutely aware that in about the week before your next period comes, you really need to be amping up carbohydrate and protein, because that's going to help you hit intensities.

因此，如果您不知道自己是否排卵，那么您正在跟踪自己的模式，那么请敏锐地意识到，在下次月经到来之前的大约一周，您确实需要增加碳水化合物和蛋白质，因为这将帮助您达到强度。

It's going to kind of level that playing field, especially on days where you feel like you can really hit those intensities.

这将会使竞争环境更加公平，尤其是在你觉得自己可以真正达到这些强度的日子里。

You feel great, but then you go to do something and your heart rate's higher than it should be, you don't feel that that you can hit those.

你感觉很好，但当你去做某事时，你的心率高于应有的水平，你感觉自己无法达到这些目标。

If you're offsetting it with some increased carbohydrate beforehand, you're going to hit it.

如果你事先增加一些碳水化合物来抵消它，你就会达到目标。

So it's, again, it's really dialing it back down to the individual now, because we don't have enough robust research to make generalized ideas because of the nuance of have you ovulated or not?

所以，现在再次将其重新归结为个人，因为我们没有足够可靠的研究来做出概括性的想法，因为你排卵与否的细微差别？

What are your ratios of estrogen, progesterone, in that luteal phase.

您在黄体期的雌激素、孕激素比例是多少？

So when we bring it back down to the general pop, it's like the best thing to do is to track your menstrual cycle over, sleep over how you're feeling, find your own patterns, and dial in your training and your days according to what your pattern is.

因此，当我们把它回归到普遍流行的时候，最好的办法就是跟踪你的月经周期，思考你的感受，找到你自己的模式，并根据你的模式调整你的训练和日子。

Andrew Huberman: How hard should a woman push through the mental and maybe even physical resistance to train less or not train during a given phase of the cycle?

Andrew Huberman：在周期的特定阶段，女性应该如何克服精神上甚至身体上的阻力来减少训练或不训练？

Stacy Sims: It depends on how she feels.

史黛西·西姆斯：这取决于她的感受。

What we can't rely on are things like heart rate variability, because we know that changes with the autonomic nervous system.

我们不能依赖心率变异性之类的东西，因为我们知道它会随着自主神经系统的变化而变化。

Change of progesterone.

黄体酮的变化。

It's a good indication that you've ovulated because your heart rate variability tanks, but it's not a good indication of what your body can do if you wake up.

由于心率变异性变大，这很好地表明您已经排卵，但这并不能很好地表明您醒来后身体会做什么。

I always say it's a ten-minute rule.

我总是说这是十分钟规则。

You wake up and you feel awful and you're like, I really want to do this workout, but I don't know how it's going to go.

当你醒来时，你感觉很糟糕，你会想，我真的很想做这个锻炼，但我不知道它会如何进行。

Give yourself ten minutes.

给自己十分钟。

If after ten minutes you can't hit those intensities or you just feel horrible, change it, drop it down, do something that's more recovery.

如果十分钟后你无法达到这些强度，或者你只是感觉很糟糕，那就改变它，放下它，做一些更有利于恢复的事情。

Do something that's not going to be so taxing because we do have a limited amount of that stress acumen, of how much stress we can handle.

做一些不会那么费力的事情，因为我们的压力敏锐度和我们能够处理的压力确实有限。

So if you're going to try to exert it all in a high-intensity workout, what do you have left over for the rest of the day?

因此，如果您打算在高强度锻炼中全力以赴，那么当天剩下的时间里还剩下什么？

And then that compounds, because if you're always fighting it, then you're going to increase this baseline sympathetic drive because you're fighting the training, you're fighting life.

然后情况就复杂了，因为如果你总是与它作斗争，那么你就会增加这种基线同情驱动力，因为你在与训练作斗争，你在与生活作斗争。

So give yourself that ten-minute rule.

所以给自己制定十分钟规则。

If it happens three days in a row, that's okay because it's a very short period of time.

如果连续发生三天，那也没关系，因为时间很短。

It's not going to last forever.

它不会永远持续下去。

So a lot of women have this internal conversation of, I have to do this.

所以很多女性都会有这样的内心对话：我必须这样做。

And it's really based on some kind of external.

它确实基于某种外部因素。

They think everyone's watching them, but internally, you don't have to.

他们认为每个人都在看着他们，但在内部，你不必这样做。

If you give yourself permission, you end up training better, recovering better, and getting better gains.

如果你允许自己，你最终会训练得更好，恢复得更好，并获得更好的收益。

Andrew Huberman: On the flip side, if a woman is feeling spectacularly good, should she just really push it as hard as she can?

安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：另一方面，如果一个女人感觉非常好，她是否应该尽最大努力去推动它？

Or is there anything about the relationship between the hormone fluctuations of the menstrual cycle and feeling really, really great that training hard can somehow disrupt the cycle?

或者，月经周期的激素波动与刻苦训练会以某种方式扰乱月经周期的感觉真的非常好之间有什么关系吗？

And this is actually kind of the old lore, probably myth, I would imagine that high-intensity resistance training is somehow detrimental to female hormone cycles.

这实际上是一种古老的传说，可能是神话，我认为高强度阻力训练在某种程度上不利于女性荷尔蒙周期。

I don't think there's any evidence for that, but I hear that from time to time.

我认为没有任何证据证明这一点，但我时常听到这样的说法。

Why do you think that myth came to be?

您认为这个神话为何会出现？

Why do you think it propagates?

你认为它为什么会传播？

And what can we do to extinguish it?

我们能做些什么来消灭它呢？

If in fact it's not true?

如果事实并非如此呢？

Stacy Sims: It's not true.

史黛西·西姆斯：这不是真的。

We see it comes from a misstep in food intake, and we also see that it's a cultural influence, because if we think about how sports started, it started as a way for men to demonstrate how powerful and aggressive they are.

我们认为这是由于食物摄入失误造成的，我们也看到这是一种文化影响，因为如果我们想想体育运动是如何开始的，它最初是男性展示自己有多么强大和好斗的一种方式。

And this is the original Olympics, right?

这就是最初的奥运会，对吗？

There were no women allowed.

不允许女性进入。

And as we feed forward into sport and how it became okay for women to be involved at the high-performance level, if a woman walks in and shows any fallibility, then she's immediately put on a lower stool, right.

当我们进入体育运动以及女性如何参与高水平运动时，如果一名女性走进来并表现出任何错误，那么她会立即被放在较低的凳子上，对吧。

You can't play with the boys because you have a menstrual cycle.

你不能和男孩们一起玩，因为你有月经周期。

You're bleeding.

你在流血。

You're a woman, you're a delicate flower.

你是一个女人，你是一朵娇嫩的花。

So women would walk into that professional sports space and be excited if they were amenorrheic or didn't have periods, or they trained hard enough and their period went away because then they were more like men and they could play with the boys.

因此，如果女性闭经或没有月经，或者她们训练得足够努力，月经消失了，她们就会走进专业的运动场所，并感到兴奋，因为这样她们就更像男人了，可以和男孩们一起玩了。

If you start bringing up menstrual cycle in professional sport now, as of the past about four or five years, it's okay to talk about, which is, you know what, 2020.

如果你现在开始在职业体育运动中提到月经周期，那么在过去的四五年里，可以谈论一下，也就是，你知道吗，2020 年。

So that myth of high-intensity resistance training causing issues with the menstrual cycle, one, it's a cultural nuance for pushback against women being in that space.

因此，关于高强度阻力训练会导致月经周期问题的神话，其一，这是一种文化上的细微差别，阻碍女性进入该领域。

But then the reality is women weren't eating enough to accommodate for that stress, which then feeds forward to low energy availability, maybe relative energy deficiency in sport perturbations in all of our menstrual cycle hormones.

但现实是，女性的饮食不足以应对这种压力，从而导致能量利用率低，可能是我们所有月经周期激素在运动扰动中相对能量不足。

So it's not the act of the high-intensity resistance training, it's the act of not fueling appropriately for it and then getting the okay to not have your period because, yeah, now you're in with, you're training hard enough, you've lost it.

所以这不是高强度阻力训练的行为，而是没有适当补充能量的行为，然后就可以没有月经了，因为，是的，现在你已经进入了，你训练得足够努力，你已经失去了月经。

You're more like a man.

你更像一个男人。

Andrew Huberman: Wow, very interesting history there.

Andrew Huberman：哇，那里的历史非常有趣。

Is it true then that if a woman maintains either caloric balance with her basically eating enough to support her energy output or even a slight caloric surplus, that it's unlikely that her periods will cease even if she's training very hard and very often?

那么，如果一名女性保持热量平衡，基本上吃得足以支持她的能量输出，甚至有轻微的热量过剩，那么即使她非常努力且频繁地训练，她的月经也不太可能停止？

Stacy Sims: Correct.

史黛西·西姆斯：正确。

Andrew Huberman: So it basically boils down to calories in, calories out.

安德鲁·休伯曼：所以它基本上可以归结为卡路里摄入和卡路里消耗。

Stacy Sims: Fuel for the task at hand, because some people want to have a slight calorie deficit even in high training.

Stacy Sims：为手头的任务提供燃料，因为有些人即使在高强度训练中也希望有轻微的卡路里不足。

And if that deficit is at night, away from training, maybe 150 to 200 calories, then it's going to help perpetuate body fat loss, not lean mass loss, and it's not going to interfere with recovery.

如果这种赤字是在晚上，远离训练，可能是 150 到 200 卡路里，那么它将有助于永久减少身体脂肪，而不是去脂体重减少，并且不会干扰恢复。

It's the fueling in and around the stress, meaning the exercise stress.

它是压力内部和周围的燃料，即运动压力。

It's really important.

这真的很重要。

But women have been so conditioned to not eat and not take up space, to be small, you know, all of these sociocultural things that women are afraid to admit the fact that they want to eat, and they should be eating.

但女性已经习惯于不吃东西、不占据空间、变小，你知道，所有这些社会文化因素让女性不敢承认她们想吃东西，而且她们应该吃东西。

So this is a nuance within the fitness community that we're really trying to change and get the mindset around.

因此，这是健身社区中的一个细微差别，我们正在努力改变并改变这种心态。

You train hard, you eat well, and your body responds in kind.

你努力训练，吃得很好，你的身体也会做出同样的反应。

Andrew Huberman: Appetite, body temperature and hormones are very tightly linked.

Andrew Huberman：食欲、体温和激素密切相关。

They are far too tightly for us to disentangle all of those in a single conversation here.

它们太紧密了，我们无法在这里通过一次对话来解开所有这些问题。

But as you're describing the urgent need for women to fuel enough with the proper fuels to train hard enough to stimulate the correct adaptations that they need, I imagine that the, the shift in appetite and body temperature that occurs across the menstrual cycle is also going to play into this.

但正如你所描述的，女性迫切需要用适当的燃料来补充足够的能量，以进行足够努力的训练，以刺激她们所需的正确适应，我想，整个月经周期中发生的食欲和体温的变化也会发挥作用。

Meaning there will be phases of the menstrual cycle where women will be just naturally less motivated to eat enough carbohydrate, enough protein in order to get the most out of their training.

这意味着在月经周期的某些阶段，女性自然会不太愿意吃足够的碳水化合物和足够的蛋白质，以便从训练中获得最大收益。

What phases of the menstrual cycle are those?

月经周期有哪些阶段？

So that women can pay particular attention to make sure that they're fueling enough.

这样女性就可以特别注意确保她们补充足够的能量。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

As estrogen starts to come up right before ovulation, that estrogen surge really dampens appetite.

由于雌激素在排卵前开始出现，雌激素的激增确实会抑制食欲。

It also has an interplay with our appetite hormones, which is part of the reason why we don't have that great of an appetite.

它还与我们的食欲激素相互作用，这也是我们食欲不振的部分原因。

It holds after ovulation, estrogen dips, you get hungry, it comes up, and people are like, I have some cravings which are driven by progesterone because your body needs more calories, but at the same time, with the elevation of estrogen, you're not hungry.

它在排卵后持续存在，雌激素下降，你感到饥饿，然后它又出现，人们会说，我有一些由黄体酮驱动的渴望，因为你的身体需要更多的卡路里，但与此同时，随着雌激素的升高，你不饿了。

You have cravings, but you're not hungry.

你有渴望，但你不饿。

Andrew Huberman: Interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：有趣。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

So it's trying to disconnect those.

所以它试图断开这些连接。

It's like your appetite is something that will come back, of course, once you eat, but cravings are more of that psychological capacity of, yeah, my body needs more, but I'm not quite sure what.

当然，一旦你吃东西，你的食欲就会回来，但渴望更多的是心理能力，是的，我的身体需要更多，但我不太确定是什么。

So to get women to understand what's happening across the board, it's always coming back to, let's fuel appropriately for the exercise.

因此，为了让女性全面了解正在发生的事情，我们总是要回到“让我们为锻炼适当补充能量”这一点。

And even if you're not hungry, if you are fueling appropriate, appropriately at that point in time, if you end up with less, at least you've stopped that breakdown state, that catabolic state.

即使你不饿，如果你在那个时间点适当地补充能量，如果你最终吃得更少，至少你已经停止了那种崩溃状态，那种分解代谢状态。

So we don't get those perturbations in the hypothalamus.

所以我们的下丘脑不会受到这些扰动。

That's my biggest concern for women is really taking care of that signaling from the brain to the rest of the body.

我对女性最关心的是真正照顾好从大脑到身体其他部位的信号。

And if we have fuel on board, even though we have appetite perturbations, and if you go do a really hard workout in the heat, you're not going to be hungry either.

如果我们船上有燃料，即使我们食欲不振，如果你在炎热的天气里进行非常艰苦的锻炼，你也不会感到饥饿。

But if you're having a cold protein drink after that hot workout, you're taking care of that immediate need to shut down the signals that we need to break down things.

但如果你在热身锻炼后喝了一杯冷蛋白饮料，那么你就是在满足立即需要关闭我们需要分解东西的信号。

Andrew Huberman: Let's talk about one of the many third rails of discussions online, which is birth control.

安德鲁·休伯曼：让我们来谈谈网上讨论的第三条轨道之一，那就是节育。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: And we need to define exactly what type of birth control we're talking about, because there are so many different forms.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：我们需要准确定义我们正在谈论的节育类型，因为有很多不同的形式。

Stacy Sims: Yes.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: There are IUDs, there are the copper IUDs, there's the ring, there's the, you know, let's talk about oral contraceptives that are designed to prevent ovulation.

安德鲁·休伯曼：有宫内节育器，有铜宫内节育器，有环，还有，你知道，让我们来谈谈旨在防止排卵的口服避孕药。

So this is "the pill."

所以这就是“药丸”。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: So we're being, let's for now, limit the conversation to that so that there isn't confusion.

Andrew Huberman：所以我们现在将对话限制在这个范围内，以免造成混乱。

Share with us, if you will, your thoughts on these, how they impact any of the things that we're talking about, or anything else, for that matter.

如果您愿意，请与我们分享您对这些问题的想法，它们如何影响我们正在讨论的任何事情，或就此而言的其他任何事情。

Stacy Sims: Can we have another history lesson?

史黛西·西姆斯：我们可以再上一堂历史课吗？

Andrew Huberman: Please.

安德鲁·休伯曼：拜托。

Stacy Sims: All right.

史黛西·西姆斯：好的。

I just gave a talk at home to some young athletes on contraception because someone might be on the Depo, and if they're on it for more than two years, they get bone mineral density loss.

我刚刚在家里给一些年轻运动员做了关于避孕的演讲，因为有人可能服用 Depo，如果他们服用超过两年，他们的骨矿物质密度就会下降。

So then the question of, okay, well, how does the oral contraceptive pill come up?

那么问题来了，口服避孕药是怎么来的呢？

How does that affect things?

这对事情有何影响？

It's like, well, let's look at the history of it initially came from Stanford.

就像，好吧，让我们看看它最初来自斯坦福大学的历史。

It was funded by Katharine McCormick, from McCormick family, and a feminist activist, Margaret Sanger.

它由麦考密克家族的凯瑟琳·麦考密克和女权活动家玛格丽特·桑格资助。

But because they were women, they couldn't get in the lab.

但因为她们是女性，所以无法进入实验室。

So they got a guy from Stanford to develop the pill, and he's like, you know what?

所以他们找了一个斯坦福大学的人来开发这种药，他说，你知道吗？

We need to put in a placebo week so that women feel like they're having a bleed.

我们需要一周服用安慰剂，让女性感觉自己正在流血。

So if we're looking at the three active pills and then the one sugar pill week, it was by design to make women feel like they are having control over their menstrual cycle, and they would still have a bleed.

因此，如果我们每周服用三颗活性药丸，然后服用一颗糖丸，那么它的设计初衷就是让女性感觉她们可以控制自己的月经周期，但她们仍然会出血。

But it's not a true bleed, it's a withdrawal bleed.

但这不是真正的出血，而是撤退性出血。

So this becomes the confusing point for people who are on an oral contraceptive pill.

因此，这成为服用口服避孕药的人的困惑点。

They're like, I get my period.

他们就像，我来月经了。

It's like, no, you don't.

就像，不，你不知道。

Because the idea of the hormones that are in an oral contraceptive pill is to downregulate your ovarian function so that you don't ovulate.

因为口服避孕药中的激素的作用是下调卵巢功能，使您不排卵。

So you have a whole different hormone profile from someone who naturally cycles.

所以你的激素水平与自然循环的人完全不同。

So this depends on the type of oral contraceptive pill you are using.

因此，这取决于您使用的口服避孕药的类型。

For the most part, monophasic is the one that's most prescribed.

在大多数情况下，单相是最常用的。

So that means the three weeks of the active pill is the same dose of estrogen, progesterone, and then you have your sugar pill week or your withdrawal week, and then you start again.

因此，这意味着活性药丸的三周是相同剂量的雌激素、黄体酮，然后是糖丸周或戒断周，然后重新开始。

When we look at the repercussions of using oral contraceptive in active women, there's a higher amount of inflammatory responses and oxidative responses.

当我们观察活跃女性使用口服避孕药的影响时，会发现炎症反应和氧化反应较多。

So from a training standpoint, no one's done the study yet, but I would be interested in doing this, of looking at how that impacts adaptation.

因此，从培训的角度来看，还没有人完成这项研究，但我有兴趣这样做，看看这如何影响适应。

You do end up with a new baseline of this when you start taking the pill, but we're not really sure how that impacts adaptation.

当您开始服用避孕药时，您确实会得到一个新的基线，但我们并不确定这如何影响适应。

We also look at the progestin component of the oral contraceptive pill because we have four generations of progesterone.

我们还研究口服避孕药的孕激素成分，因为我们有四代孕激素。

First generation was really high dose and has a lot of risk factors.

第一代的剂量确实很高，并且有很多危险因素。

Not really prescribed that much.

并没有真正规定那么多。

Second generation is the most prescribed, and this is the one that people just take.

第二代是最多的，人们只服用这一代。

It's in your IUD, it's in your OC, has the least amount of side effects.

它在您的宫内节育器中，在您的 OC 中，副作用最少。

And then we have a third and a fourth generation.

然后我们有第三代和第四代。

The fourth generation is primarily used for women who have really bad PMS or PMDD, which is your premenstrual dysphoria disorder.

第四代主要用于患有严重经前综合症或经前烦躁症（经前烦躁症）的女性。

So significant mood issues, because that progestin has a direct effect on a lot of the dopamine receptors in the brain as well.

如此重要的情绪问题，因为孕激素也对大脑中的许多多巴胺受体有直接影响。

The third generation is very androgenic.

第三代非常雄激素。

So we see that in some preliminary research, that improves speed and power by the second week of intake because it's accumulated.

所以我们在一些初步研究中看到，在摄入的第二周，速度和力量得到了提高，因为它是积累的。

So when we're looking directly at an oral contraceptive pill, we can't make generalizations because you have low dose, high dose estrogen, we see that a 30-microgram dose increases hypertrophy, but not strength, because estrogen increases the satellite cell aspect.

因此，当我们直接观察口服避孕药时，我们不能一概而论，因为你有低剂量、高剂量的雌激素，我们看到30微克剂量会增加肥大，但不会增加力量，因为雌激素会增加卫星细胞方面。

So for my power and Olympic athletes, Olympic lifting athletes, that's a detriment because they'll put on muscle mass, but no strength.

因此，对于我的力量运动员和奥运会举重运动员来说，这是一种损害，因为他们会增加肌肉质量，但不会增加力量。

So we've had to look at changing their OC or getting them off.

所以我们不得不考虑改变他们的主帅或者让他们下课。

For women who have breakthrough bleeding, that higher incidence of or that higher intake of estrogen is really beneficial.

对于突破性出血的女性来说，较高的发生率或较高的雌激素摄入量确实是有益的。

So when we look overall at how it impacts women from an athletic standpoint, it's so variable in the hormone profile that we can't make generalizations.

因此，当我们从运动的角度全面审视它对女性的影响时，我们会发现激素的变化如此之大，以至于我们无法一概而论。

We only look at the very high-performance aspects and what's happening up there because that can make or break an athlete.

我们只关注非常高绩效的方面以及那里发生的事情，因为这可以成就或毁掉一名运动员。

So from the general touch point, we don't know enough.

所以从一般接触点来看，我们了解得还不够。

Like the beginning of this year, 2024, there was a study that came out looking at changes in the amygdala that happens with oral contraceptive use.

就像今年年初（2024 年）一样，有一项研究观察了使用口服避孕药时杏仁核发生的变化。

It's reversible in adults, but for young girls, we don't know because their brain is developing.

这对于成年人来说是可逆的，但对于年轻女孩来说，我们不知道，因为她们的大脑正在发育。

And unfortunately, physicians will pass out OCs as if it's candy.

不幸的是，医生会把口服避孕药当作糖果一样分发。

Andrew Huberman: Oral contraceptives.

安德鲁·休伯曼：口服避孕药。

And do you recall what the direction of the effect was on the amygdala?

你还记得杏仁核上的影响方向是什么吗？

For those that don't recall the amygdala bilateral brain structure, meaning one on each side of your brain, literally means almond in Latin.

对于那些不记得杏仁核双侧大脑结构的人来说，杏仁核意味着大脑的每一侧都有一个，在拉丁语中字面意思是杏仁。

It's almond shaped, and it's part of a larger network associated with threat detection.

它呈杏仁状，是与威胁检测相关的更大网络的一部分。

Sometimes it's described the locus of fear in the brain, but it's involved in a lot of other things, too, both positive valence and negative valence, but nonetheless is part of the threat detection system.

有时它描述了大脑中恐惧的部位，但它也涉及很多其他事物，包括正价和负价，但仍然是威胁检测系统的一部分。

Elevated levels of arousal, which is why it's often discussed in the context of fear, anxiety, etc.

觉醒水平升高，这就是为什么它经常在恐惧、焦虑等背景下讨论。

Stacy Sims: It increased fear in women who were on the OC or a contraceptive pill, made them less willing to take chances.

Stacy Sims：这增加了服用口服避孕药或避孕药的女性的恐惧，使她们不愿意冒险。

And when they went off it, they're like, well, why couldn't I do that before?

当他们停止这样做时，他们会想，好吧，为什么我以前不能这样做呢？

So that's why they started looking at the amygdala.

这就是为什么他们开始研究杏仁核。

And when I say we're looking at young girls, and again, we don't know what's happening, is it reversible in young girls that are put on it or not because of the brain structure changes that are happening?

当我说我们正在研究年轻女孩时，我们不知道发生了什么，因为大脑结构正在发生变化，戴上它的年轻女孩是否可以逆转？

So when we talk about an oral contraceptive pill, I want people to understand that it has a significant effect on the body, not just reproductive.

因此，当我们谈论口服避孕药时，我希望人们明白它对身体有重大影响，而不仅仅是生殖。

We don't know enough about all the other effects.

我们对所有其他影响还不够了解。

So I have parents who say, my daughter wants to go on the oral contraceptive pill.

所以我的父母说，我女儿想继续服用口服避孕药。

She's having irregular periods, she's an athlete, we want to be able to control it.

她的月经不规律，她是一名运动员，我们希望能够控制它。

And it's like, if there's an issue with your menstrual cycle now, it's still going to be there when you get off it.

就像，如果你现在的月经周期有问题，那么当你月经结束时，它仍然存在。

So we have to look and see what's going on here.

所以我们必须看看这里发生了什么。

If you're looking to get on it to control your menstrual cycle.

如果您想用它来控制月经周期。

Why?

为什么？

Because we know that you can have an increase in your V̇O₂ max and other anaerobic capacity when you are not on it.

因为我们知道，当您不进行锻炼时，您的最大摄氧量和其他无氧能力会有所增加。

So you have a better top-end capacity when you're not being blunted by these hormones.

因此，当您不被这些激素削弱时，您就会拥有更好的高端能力。

And then the other conversation is, oh, my skin.

然后另一个话题是，哦，我的皮肤。

It's like, well, they have really good dermatologists that can help you with that.

就像，嗯，他们有非常好的皮肤科医生可以帮助你。

You don't have to go on an oral contraceptive pill, but unfortunately, GPs don't understand all of that.

您不必服用口服避孕药，但不幸的是，全科医生并不了解这一切。

And if a girl comes in and says, I'm having irregular cycles, heavy menstrual bleeding, I want to go on the OC.

如果一个女孩进来说，我的周期不规律，月经出血量多，我想接受口服避孕药。

See, here you go.

看，给你。

So it is a huge conversation still be had.

因此，这仍然是一个巨大的对话。

I put it in the same category as menopause hormone therapy because there isn't enough research to address all the population needs.

我将其与更年期激素疗法归为同一类别，因为没有足够的研究来满足所有人群的需求。

And we see these big pendulum switches.

我们看到这些大摆开关。

So before it was like, everyone be on the OC, and now it's like, maybe not.

所以以前，每个人都在 OC 上，而现在，也许不是。

And then it was, no one beyond menopause hormone therapy, everyone should be on it, but we need to land in the middle and understand more of what's happening with these exogenous hormones.

然后，除了更年期激素治疗之外，没有人可以接受，每个人都应该接受它，但我们需要介于两者之间，更多地了解这些外源性激素所发生的情况。

Andrew Huberman: Is there any evidence that other forms of female contraception can be, let's just say, problematic for the types of things we're discussing today?

安德鲁·休伯曼：是否有任何证据表明其他形式的女性避孕方法可能对我们今天讨论的问题产生问题？

Stacy Sims: Like the implant and the Depo?

Stacy Sims：就像植入物和 Depo 一样？

Andrew Huberman: Or IUD.

安德鲁·休伯曼：或者宫内节育器。

Copper IUD.

铜宫内节育器。

Stacy Sims: Copper IUD and the Mirena, or, you know, your progestin-laced IUD.

Stacy Sims：铜宫内节育器和曼月乐，或者你知道的，含有孕激素的宫内节育器。

Those are what a lot of my tactical athletes will use, because it doesn't have a systemic effect on adaptation or inflammation, mood, any of those things.

这些是我的很多战术运动员都会使用的，因为它不会对适应或炎症、情绪等产生系统性影响。

And it's a fit and forget.

这是一种一劳永逸的方式。

So you can put it in for up to three to five years.

因此，您可以将其保存长达三到五年。

If you have a really heavy bleeding, it really dissipates, because the whole idea of an IUD is to thin the endometrial lining, and so then you have autophagy that takes care of the endometrial lining, so you don't necessarily have a bleed.

如果你的出血量非常大，它真的会消失，因为宫内节育器的整个想法是使子宫内膜变薄，所以你有自噬来照顾子宫内膜，所以你不一定会出血。

The copper IUD is different because you do have really heavy bleeding for the first three cycles and then it attenuates.

带铜宫内节育器是不同的，因为前三个周期确实有大量出血，然后出血量就会减少。

Andrew Huberman: Before we got started today, you mentioned some very interesting pioneering studies on evaluating menstrual blood itself as a window into some larger themes about what's going on physiologically, maybe even psychologically.

安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：在我们今天开始之前，您提到了一些非常有趣的开创性研究，这些研究是关于评估经血本身，作为了解生理甚至心理上发生的一些更大主题的窗口。

Now might be-

现在可能是——

Stacy Sims: A good segue?

Stacy Sims：一个好的续集？

Andrew Huberman: To just touch into that.

Andrew Huberman：简单谈谈这一点。

We can always return to it again later.

我们以后随时可以再次回到它。

But let me just ask it more directly.

但让我更直接地问一下。

Firstly, what are some things that can be measured directly from menstrual blood that are informative for women?

首先，有哪些可以直接从经血中测量、对女性有帮助的信息？

And it sounds like there's a new generation of at-home tests that might be interesting and informative for them to think about.

听起来似乎有新一代的家庭测试可能对他们来说很有趣并且可以提供丰富的信息。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, well, if you think about menstrual fluid, everyone thinks about it as a discard product, but it's a very good indicator of what's happening from an endocrine standpoint.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，好吧，如果你想到经血，每个人都会认为它是一种废弃产品，但从内分泌的角度来看，它是一个很好的指标。

Gives a really good indication of what's happening from an endometrial standpoint.

从子宫内膜的角度来看，可以很好地表明所发生的情况。

So if you're looking at all the cytokines and the proteins and the tissue that comes from it, it's a huge indicator that's naturally discharged that we're now looking at for determining HPV.

因此，如果你观察所有的细胞因子、蛋白质以及来自细胞因子的组织，就会发现这是一个自然释放的巨大指标，我们现在正在利用它来确定 HPV。

Do you have it or not?

你有还是没有？

What about proteins for PCOS?

多囊卵巢综合症的蛋白质怎么样？

Can we really identify PCOS or endometriosis?

我们真的能识别多囊卵巢综合症或子宫内膜异位症吗？

Andrew Huberman: Can we talk about PCOS for a moment?

Andrew Huberman：我们能谈谈 PCOS 吗？

Most people have heard of it by now.

现在大多数人都听说过它。

Polycystic ovarian syndrome.

多囊卵巢综合症。

It's associated with typically elevated androgens.

它与通常升高的雄激素有关。

It's becoming more and more common or perhaps detected more based on better detection methods.

它变得越来越普遍，或者可能基于更好的检测方法被更多地检测到。

I don't know which.

我不知道是哪一个。

The prevalence of PCOS seems to be very, very high.

多囊卵巢综合症的患病率似乎非常非常高。

Stacy Sims: It does, and I think it's a combination of both.

Stacy Sims：确实如此，而且我认为这是两者的结合。

We also see some rebound PCOS that happens when someone gets off an oral contraceptive pill.

我们还发现，当有人停止服用口服避孕药时，多囊卵巢综合症会出现反弹。

It's not necessarily true PCOS, because what's happening now, your ovaries are producing eggs that have been downregulated for so long.

这不一定是真正的多囊卵巢综合症，因为现在发生的情况是，你的卵巢正在产生长期以来一直被下调的卵子。

So under ultrasound, it might look like PCOS, but it's not necessarily true indication.

因此，在超声波检查下，它可能看起来像多囊卵巢综合症，但这不一定是真正的迹象。

The other is more and more women are starting to eat more, and so they're coming out of low energy availability.

另一个是越来越多的女性开始吃得更多，因此她们摆脱了能量供应不足的困境。

If you have more carbohydrate, you end up with greater follicular stimulation, which also shows up as PCOS.

如果你摄入更多的碳水化合物，你最终会受到更大的卵泡刺激，这也会表现为多囊卵巢综合症。

So the true PCOS, yes, there is a high incidence from a reporting standpoint, but is it that rebound where it's not having all the androgenic changes?

所以，是的，从报告的角度来看，真正的多囊卵巢综合征的发病率很高，但在没有发生所有雄激素变化的情况下是否会出现反弹？

That's still kind of up in the air at the moment, but it is a big concern for women because it is an indication that something's going on and they might have some fertility issues.

目前这个问题仍然悬而未决，但这对女性来说是一个很大的担忧，因为这表明有些事情正在发生，她们可能会遇到一些生育问题。

We see a really high incidence of PCOS in Olympic-level athletes.

我们发现奥运会级别的运动员中多囊卵巢综合症的发病率非常高。

Athletes.

运动员。

Because of the higher androgenic aspect of PCOS.

因为多囊卵巢综合症的雄激素水平较高。

So better recovery time, a little bit higher baseline testosterone.

所以恢复时间更好，睾酮基线更高一点。

So, yeah, it's a population specificity as well.

所以，是的，这也是人群的特殊性。

Andrew Huberman: In the 80s and 90s, there was a lot of excitement in the neurobehavioral endocrinology fields, largely based on animal literature, but then expanding into human literature, that certain forms of activities could change hormone patterns and maybe even psychology.

Andrew Huberman：在 80 年代和 90 年代，神经行为内分泌学领域有很多令人兴奋的事情，主要基于动物文献，但后来扩展到人类文献，某些形式的活动可以改变激素模式，甚至可能改变心理学。

And that makes sense on the surface of it.

从表面上看，这是有道理的。

But is there evidence that if somebody engages in, say, high-intensity training or competitive scenarios, this has been explored a lot in men, but I'm wondering if it's also been explored now in women, that androgens go up.

但是否有证据表明，如果有人参与高强度训练或竞争场景，这在男性中已经进行了很多探索，但我想知道现在是否也在女性中进行了探索，雄激素会上升。

I mean, there's been these studies, I don't know how good they are, of people on the stock exchange, watching their stress fluctuations, measuring testosterone.

我的意思是，有一些研究，我不知道它们有多好，针对股票交易所的人们，观察他们的压力波动，测量睾丸激素。

I think most of those studies were done in men, but other competitive scenarios, even showing, for instance, that exogenous testosterone can increase altruism in men if men are competing for who's donating the most money at a philanthropic event, but you put them in a different scenario where it's far less benevolent in goal, and then exogenous testosterone drives competitiveness towards things that are more traditionally thought of male-male competition.

我认为大多数这些研究都是在男性中进行的，但其他竞争场景甚至表明，例如，如果男性在慈善活动中争夺谁捐赠最多的钱，那么外源性睾酮可以增加男性的利他主义，但你把他们放在一个不同的场景中，目标远不那么仁慈，然后外源性睾酮推动了对更传统的男性与男性竞争的竞争。

In other words, it's all context dependent.

换句话说，这一切都依赖于上下文。

Is there anything that springs to mind of interesting studies as it relates to androgens or estrogens in women athletes and as it relates to exercise?

有没有什么有趣的研究会浮现在脑海中，因为它与女运动员的雄激素或雌激素以及运动有关？

Stacy Sims: They haven't done any specific studies like that in women.

Stacy Sims：他们还没有对女性进行任何类似的具体研究。

We do see that under stress, the cortisol increases, and if you have an adequate response to it and your body can overcome it, then, yes, you get a boost in testosterone.

我们确实看到，在压力下，皮质醇会增加，如果你对它有足够的反应并且你的身体可以克服它，那么，是的，你的睾酮水平会增加。

For women, we see this in a lot of the night mission shift changes and tactical athletes.

对于女性来说，我们在许多夜间任务轮班变化和战术运动员中看到了这一点。

There is also, I guess, a lessening of circulating estrogen.

我猜想，循环雌激素也会减少。

So the pulse changes when we start getting to the end of a really strong training block because we're starting to have a little bit of a downregulation of our luteinizing hormone, pulse and estrogen, but it shouldn't be severe enough to cause menstrual cycle dysfunction.

因此，当我们开始进行强度很大的训练时，脉搏会发生变化，因为我们的黄体生成素、脉搏和雌激素开始略有下调，但不会严重到导致月经周期功能障碍。

What we want people to do is look at the ratio of their estrogen, progesterone, and keeping track of luteinizing hormone.

我们希望人们做的是观察雌激素、黄体酮的比例，并跟踪黄体生成素。

If they are at that point where they are going to have a really big training block, we look at preseason, during season, end of season, and people who might be at a higher risk factor for becoming amenorrheic, then we keep track that way because it is the stress component that can downregulate, not actually causing a permanent change.

如果他们正处于一个非常大的训练阶段，我们会关注季前赛、赛季中、赛季末以及那些可能处于闭经高风险因素的人，然后我们会以这种方式进行跟踪，因为压力成分可以下调，实际上不会导致永久性变化。

Andrew Huberman: As we talk about menstruation, we should probably talk about iron stores and iron.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：当我们谈论月经时，我们可能应该谈论铁储存和铁。

Do women need to supplement iron given that they lose iron during menstruation?

女性在月经期间铁质流失，需要补铁吗？

Stacy Sims: It's interesting because we have a change in hepcidin, or hepcidin, depending on which part of the world you come from, because it is increased under times of inflammation and decreased under times of iron loss.

Stacy Sims：这很有趣，因为铁调素或铁调素会发生变化，具体取决于您来自世界的哪个地区，因为它在炎症时期会增加，而在铁流失时期会减少。

So we see a significant change across the menstrual cycle.

所以我们看到整个月经周期发生了重大变化。

So I tell women, if you are concerned with low ferritin, then we want you to take an iron supplement every other day, starting at the first day of your bleed, for ten days, because that's going to really allow your body to absorb it and stay on top of it, after that every other day.

所以我告诉女性，如果您担心铁蛋白水平低，那么我们希望您从出血的第一天开始，每隔一天服用一次铁补充剂，持续十天，因为这将真正让您的身体吸收铁蛋白并保持最佳状态，之后每隔一天服用一次。

Yeah, but you're not going to be absorbing as much of it because hepcidin starts to come up after ovulation.

是的，但你不会吸收那么多，因为铁调素在排卵后开始出现。

Again, you have a proinflammatory response, so you have greater inflammation.

同样，你有促炎反应，所以你有更严重的炎症。

Do women blanket need to supplement?

女性毯子需要补充吗？

No, because we see fatigue isn't necessarily just iron related.

不，因为我们发现疲劳不一定只与铁有关。

There's so many other reasons why women are fatigued.

女性疲劳的原因还有很多。

The one problem is the baseline levels for, like, ferritin.

一个问题是铁蛋白等的基线水平。

For active women, if you go in and you have a ferritin level of 20 to 25, they're going to say it's normal, but we'd rather see you up around 50.

对于活跃的女性来说，如果您的铁蛋白水平为 20 到 25，他们会说这是正常的，但我们宁愿看到您的铁蛋白水平在 50 左右。

So if you are in that low end of normal, then supplementing will help you get up into that 50 and see if it makes a difference.

因此，如果您处于正常水平的低端，那么补充补充剂将帮助您达到 50 左右，看看是否会产生影响。

Andrew Huberman: If a woman is going to get a blood test to evaluate testosterone, estrogen, lipids, metabolic factors, etc., and she can only afford to do that at one point during her cycle and compare at various times, maybe every six months or once a year, even at that specific time of her cycle.

Andrew Huberman：如果一名女性要进行血液检查来评估睾酮、雌激素、血脂、代谢因素等，而她只能在月经周期的某个时间点进行检查，并在不同时间进行比较，可能每六个月或每年一次，甚至是在月经周期的特定时间。

Is there a best time in cycle to do that blood test?

周期中有进行血液检查的最佳时间吗？

Stacy Sims: If I'm limited to say that, then I would say five to seven days before her next period starts, so midluteal because then you get a good indication of estrogen, progesterone peak.

Stacy Sims：如果我只能这么说，那么我会说在她下一次月经开始前五到七天，所以是黄体中期，因为那时你会得到雌激素、黄体酮峰值的良好指示。

Testosterone doesn't fluctuate as much as those two, so you're going to get a good idea what baseline testosterone is, and we know that there's a greater inflammatory response.

睾酮的波动不像这两者那么大，所以你会很好地了解基线睾酮是什么，而且我们知道有更大的炎症反应。

So anything that's outside of the norm of that upper elevation of inflammation, you're going to be able to pick out.

因此，任何超出炎症上限正常范围的情况，您都能够识别出来。

So, yeah, I would say if you could only do it at one point in time, that would be the time to do it.

所以，是的，我想说，如果你只能在某个时间点做这件事，那就是做这件事的时候了。

Andrew Huberman: And if she can add a second blood test at a different phase of the menstrual cycle, where would you place that second test?

Andrew Huberman：如果她可以在月经周期的不同阶段添加第二次血液测试，你会在哪里进行第二次测试？

Stacy Sims: Day two of the menstrual cycle, second day of bleeding to get a really good indication of what your true estrogen level is at baseline.

Stacy Sims：月经周期的第二天，即出血的第二天，可以很好地了解您的基线雌激素水平。

Andrew Huberman: And if she measures her hormones at those two times within the cycle, do you think that's sufficient to get 75% plus of the relevant data?

Andrew Huberman：如果她在周期内的这两次测量荷尔蒙，您认为这足以获得 75% 以上的相关数据吗？

Stacy Sims: Yeah, definitely.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，当然。

Andrew Huberman: Terrific.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太棒了。

Caffeine.

咖啡因。

Stacy Sims: Yes.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: In the old days, meaning when I was a kid and not long ago, three weeks ago, we would hear these crazy statements about caffeine.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：在过去，意思是当我还是个孩子的时候，不久前，三周前，我们会听到这些关于咖啡因的疯狂言论。

It pulls calcium out of the bones.

它从骨头中提取钙。

You'd hear this stuff.

你会听到这些东西。

I did a whole episode on caffeine.

我用咖啡因做了一整集。

I'm a big fan of caffeine, but I do warn people that if they suffer from anxiety or they're going through a particularly stressful life event, it can raise the activity of the sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system.

我是咖啡因的忠实粉丝，但我确实警告人们，如果他们患有焦虑症或正在经历压力特别大的生活事件，它会提高自主神经系统交感神经的活动。

You'll feel more nervous, you're more prone to panic when you're drinking caffeine.

当你喝咖啡因时，你会感到更加紧张，更容易惊慌。

But many people love caffeine.

但很多人都喜欢咖啡因。

I think 90% of the adult population of the world ingests some form of caffeine every single day.

我认为世界上 90% 的成年人每天都会摄入某种形式的咖啡因。

Stacy Sims: I'm in that 90%.

Stacy Sims：我属于那 90%。

Andrew Huberman: Likewise, making it the most consumed drug worldwide.

安德鲁·休伯曼：同样，使其成为全球消费最多的药物。

Is caffeine safe for women?

咖啡因对女性安全吗？

I suspect, based on what you just said that the answer will be yes.

我怀疑，根据你刚才所说的，答案是肯定的。

But are there case conditions where women should be cautious about their intake of caffeine, independent of this anxiety thing?

但是，在某些情况下，女性应该谨慎对待咖啡因的摄入，而与这种焦虑无关吗？

I mean, people probably shouldn't drink more caffeine than they can tolerate psychologically.

我的意思是，人们喝的咖啡因可能不应该超过他们的心理承受能力。

No one — male, female, young, or old.

没有人——男性、女性、年轻或年老。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, it's more of a genetic factor than it is a sex factor.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，这更多的是遗传因素，而不是性别因素。

So, I mean, both men and women will be fast metabolizers, slow metabolizers or not have an effect.

所以，我的意思是，男性和女性都会是代谢快、代谢慢或没有效果的人。

That becomes the bigger rock of them.

这成为他们更大的基石。

What we do find is, in that perimenopausal state, women will become more sensitive to the blood sugar fluctuations that happen with caffeine.

我们确实发现，在围绝经期状态下，女性会对咖啡因引起的血糖波动变得更加敏感。

So they're used to having coffee in the morning with something.

所以他们习惯早上喝咖啡加点东西。

Then halfway through their workout, they become a little bit hypoglycemic because there's changes in insulin sensitivity, insulin responses.

然后在锻炼进行到一半时，他们会出现一点低血糖，因为胰岛素敏感性和胰岛素反应发生了变化。

So there's changes also in blood sugar control, and caffeine can exacerbate that.

因此，血糖控制也会发生变化，而咖啡因会加剧这种变化。

So if you are someone who's like, oh, I always have a double espresso before I go workout.

所以，如果你是这样的人，哦，我在锻炼之前总是喝一杯双份浓缩咖啡。

And then halfway through, I'm really hypoglycemic.

然后到了一半，我真的低血糖了。

I'm really dizzy and lightheaded.

我真的头晕目眩。

I don't know what to do.

我不知道该怎么办。

Andrew Huberman: Feel sick or nauseous.

Andrew Huberman：感到恶心或恶心。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Eat some food.

吃一些食物。

Eat some food with it.

和它一起吃一些食物。

Andrew Huberman: What about sipping caffeine through the workout?

Andrew Huberman：在锻炼过程中喝点咖啡怎么样？

You know, taking that coffee in and just having a sip between sets?

你知道吗，在组间休息时喝一杯咖啡？

Can that offset some of that?

这可以抵消一部分吗？

Stacy Sims: I don't think so.

史黛西·西姆斯：我不这么认为。

Andrew Huberman: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

I hear a lot that people who drink caffeine before a workout, you know, midway through, they're like, I don't feel good.

我听说很多人在锻炼前喝咖啡因，你知道，锻炼到一半时，他们会说，我感觉不太好。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Because they don't eat.

因为他们不吃东西。

Andrew Huberman: For me, that just stimulates the desire for more caffeine.

Andrew Huberman：对我来说，这只会刺激对更多咖啡因的渴望。

But.

但。

Or even, dare I say, a half piece of nicotine gum, which I experimented with.

或者，我敢说，甚至是半块尼古丁口香糖，我曾尝试过。

But I was told, and this is why I'm not going to continue to do it, not only is it very habit forming, it actually is such a vasoconstrictor that I was told by a dermatologist that it's terrible for skin, even if you're not getting your nicotine by smoking, vaping, dipping, or snuffing.

但有人告诉我，这就是为什么我不会继续这样做，它不仅很容易形成习惯，而且它实际上是一种血管收缩剂，皮肤科医生告诉我，它对皮肤很糟糕，即使你不是通过吸烟、吸电子烟、浸渍或吸鼻来获取尼古丁。

So this big trend now toward ingesting nicotine as a stimulant and cognitive enhancer and performance enhancer, I think people should at least be aware of the negative effects on skin.

因此，现在摄入尼古丁作为兴奋剂、认知增强剂和表现增强剂的大趋势，我认为人们至少应该意识到尼古丁对皮肤的负面影响。

Stacy Sims: Never would have known.

史黛西·西姆斯：永远不会知道。

Because I'm not a nicotine person.

因为我不是一个有尼古丁的人。

Andrew Huberman: I'll tell you, that half piece of nicotine gum is, the first time you do it, it's an unbelievable experience.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我告诉你，半块尼古丁口香糖，当你第一次这样做时，这是一次令人难以置信的体验。

It's like your first real cup of coffee.

这就像您第一杯真正的咖啡。

Stacy Sims: Oh, really?

史黛西·西姆斯：哦，真的吗？

Wakes you up.

叫醒你。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

And dials you in.

并拨通您的电话。

I recommend nobody do it because it feels that pleasant.

我建议没有人这样做，因为感觉很愉快。

If you like caffeine.

如果你喜欢咖啡因。

Stacy Sims: I like Schisandra for that reason.

Stacy Sims：因为这个原因我喜欢五味子。

Andrew Huberman: Schisandra?

安德鲁·休伯曼：五味子？

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: What's Schisandra?

安德鲁·胡伯曼：什么是五味子？

Stacy Sims: It's an adaptogen.

Stacy Sims：它是一种适应原。

Andrew Huberman: I should know what this is.

Andrew Huberman：我应该知道这是什么。

Stacy Sims: You should know what this is.

Stacy Sims：你应该知道这是什么。

Andrew Huberman: Well, I'm here to learn.

Andrew Huberman：嗯，我是来学习的。

Stacy Sims: Okay.

史黛西·西姆斯：好的。

Andrew Huberman: Schisandra.

安德鲁·休伯曼：五味子。

Stacy Sims: Schisandra.

史黛西·西姆斯：五味子。

Yeah.

是的。

So it is an adaptogenic plant.

因此它是一种适应性植物。

So, you know, like ginseng, Siberian ginseng, maca, ashwagandha, all those buzzwords out there.

所以，你知道，比如人参、西伯利亚人参、玛卡、南非醉茄，所有这些流行词。

Schisandra is another really well-studied adaptogen.

五味子是另一种经过充分研究的适应原。

And I have friends who say it's like Adderall, where you take it and it's immediate focus and function because its main goal is to regulate dopamine, serotonin and cortisol.

我有朋友说它就像阿得拉（Adderall），你服用它，它会立即发挥作用，因为它的主要目标是调节多巴胺、血清素和皮质醇。

So it gets women and men out of that brain fog, gives them incredible focus.

因此，它可以让女性和男性摆脱脑雾，给予他们难以置信的注意力。

Andrew Huberman: Do you use it?

安德鲁·休伯曼：你用它吗？

Stacy Sims: Yep.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Are you on it now?

安德鲁·休伯曼：你现在在做吗？

Stacy Sims: I put it in my morning coffee.

Stacy Sims：我把它放在早上的咖啡里。

Andrew Huberman: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

You just sent people down the rabbit hole.

你刚刚把人们送进了兔子洞。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，是的。

Andrew Huberman: You heard it here first.

Andrew Huberman：你首先在这里听到的。

Dr. Stacy Sims.

史黛西·西姆斯博士。

I'm gonna give it a try.

我要尝试一下。

Because the nicotine thing is an interesting one, and there are some cognitive-enhancing effects of nicotine that perhaps in people 65 and older might actually be beneficial for offsetting some forms of neurodegeneration.

因为尼古丁是一个有趣的东西，而且尼古丁有一些增强认知的作用，对于 65 岁及以上的人来说，这实际上可能有益于抵消某些形式的神经退行性疾病。

But that needs to still be explored and researched.

但这仍然需要探索和研究。

Don't cut that and clip it and put it out there like so.

不要像这样剪掉、夹住它然后把它放在那里。

That's happened already.

那已经发生了。

Very interesting.

非常有趣。

All right.

好的。

Caffeine, we both agree, is great.

我们都同意，咖啡因很棒。

Schisandra.

五味子。

Stacy Sims: You gotta try it.

史黛西·西姆斯：你一定要尝试一下。

Check it out, let me know.

检查一下，告诉我。

Andrew Huberman: All right, will do.

Andrew Huberman：好的，就这样。

Cold.

寒冷的。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: For reasons I still don't understand, people have associated me or this podcast with deliberate cold exposure.

Andrew Huberman：出于我仍然不明白的原因，人们将我或这个播客与故意暴露在寒冷中联系起来。

I like deliberate cold exposure in the form of a cold shower or a cold plunge or an ice bath, mostly for the effects that occur afterward, meaning more alertness, a kind of semi-euphoric buzz that goes on a long, long time.

我喜欢以冷水淋浴、冷水浴或冰浴的形式故意暴露在寒冷中，主要是为了随后发生的效果，意味着更加警觉，一种持续很长时间的半欣快感。

No, I don't think it increases metabolism significantly enough to have a meaningful difference.

不，我不认为它能显着地提高新陈代谢，从而产生有意义的差异。

The long-lasting increases in the so-called catecholamines, dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine, to me, are pretty impressive, and I just like the way it makes me feel.

对我来说，所谓的儿茶酚胺、多巴胺、去甲肾上腺素和肾上腺素的持久增加令人印象深刻，我喜欢它给我的感觉。

So that's the main reason, I believe, why people do deliberate cold exposure.

我认为，这就是人们故意暴露在寒冷环境中的主要原因。

And every time I do a post about deliberate cold exposure, I get asked, understandably so, how does it affect women differently than men?

每次我发表关于故意寒冷暴露的帖子时，我都会被问到，这是可以理解的，它对女性和男性的影响有何不同？

And then I usually get questions about Raynaud's syndrome.

然后我通常会收到有关雷诺综合症的问题。

Stacy Sims: Oh, yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：哦，是的。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

So is there a difference in terms of how deliberate cold exposure impacts women?

那么，故意暴露在寒冷环境中对女性的影响是否存在差异呢？

I have to imagine the answer is yes, given what you said earlier about vasoconstriction versus vasodilation.

鉴于您之前所说的血管收缩与血管舒张，我必须想象答案是肯定的。

But deliberate cold exposure.

但故意暴露在寒冷中。

Like it?

喜欢吗？

Hate it?

讨厌吗？

What do you think?

你怎么认为？

Do you recommend it for women?

你推荐给女性吗？

Stacy Sims: I recommend it for open water swimmers who might experience that vagal response when they first dive into the cold.

Stacy Sims：我向开放水域游泳者推荐它，因为他们在第一次潜入寒冷的环境时可能会经历迷走神经反应。

I prefer heat for women.

我更喜欢女性的温暖。

Everyone's a responder to the heat.

每个人都是炎热天气的反应者。

You get better adaptations.

你会得到更好的适应。

Andrew Huberman: So sauna.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以桑拿。

Stacy Sims: Yep.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Sauna.

桑拿。

Andrew Huberman: Hot tub.

安德鲁·休伯曼：热水浴缸。

Stacy Sims: Yep.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Preferably a true Finnish sauna.

最好是真正的芬兰桑拿浴室。

Infrared doesn't.

红外线则不然。

It warms the skin, but not the core.

它会温暖皮肤，但不会温暖核心。

Andrew Huberman: Thank you for saying that.

安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢你这么说。

I'm not a big fan of infrared sauna.

我不太喜欢红外线桑拿。

Because it doesn't get hot enough.

因为还不够热。

Stacy Sims: No.

史黛西·西姆斯：不。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

You can bring an infrared light into a traditional sauna if it can tolerate the heat.

如果传统桑拿房能承受高温，您可以将红外线灯带入其中。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: But Finnish sauna would be, what, something between 185 degrees Fahrenheit and maybe 210 if you're really heat adapted.

Andrew Huberman：但是芬兰桑拿房的温度大概在 185 华氏度到 210 华氏度之间，如果你真的适应热的话。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, I'm still working on metric.

Stacy Sims：是的，我仍在研究度量。

Let me do the conversion.

让我来进行转换。

Andrew Huberman: Oh, sorry.

安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，抱歉。

Yeah.

是的。

You're living down in New Zealand.

你住在新西兰。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

So 60 to 80 degrees C.

所以60到80摄氏度。

Andrew Huberman: I need to look.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我需要看看。

Every time I've tried to do math on the fly on this podcast.

每次我尝试在这个播客上即时做数学。

Stacy Sims: I know, it's like, okay, times nine divided by-

Stacy Sims：我知道，这就像，好吧，乘以九除以-

Andrew Huberman: Different process mode.

Andrew Huberman：不同的流程模式。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: People can look it up.

Andrew Huberman：人们可以查一下。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

Stacy Sims: Look it up.

史黛西·西姆斯：查一下。

So the thing with cold water exposure is the whole conversation about ice cold ice baths and how cold it is.

因此，与冷水接触的问题就是关于冰冷的冰浴以及它有多冷的整个对话。

It's too cold for women, because when we're looking at that severe, immediate jump into that icy cold, it causes such severe constriction and shutdown.

对于女性来说，这太冷了，因为当我们看到那种严重的、立即跳入冰冷的环境时，它会导致如此严重的收缩和关闭。

So women do really well and get that whole dopamine response and everything if the water is around 16 degrees Celsius, which is 55 to 56 degrees Fahrenheit, which is chilly.

因此，如果水温在 16 摄氏度左右（即 55 至 56 华氏度，很冷），女性会表现得非常好，能够获得完整的多巴胺反应和一切。

Andrew Huberman: It's chilly.

安德鲁·休伯曼：天气很冷。

It's not warm.

天气不热。

Stacy Sims: No, it's go dive in San Francisco Bay.

Stacy Sims：不，是去旧金山湾潜水。

Right.

正确的。

And that is enough to offset that severe constriction survival.

这足以抵消严重的生存压力。

But it is cold enough to invoke all the changes that we want with cold water exposure.

但它足够冷，可以通过暴露在冷水中来引发我们想要的所有变化。

So it's a temperature nuance.

所以这是一个温度的细微差别。

That's that sex difference.

这就是性别差异。

And like I said, when I have open water swimmers who are going to do a long swim or they're going to do a triathlon and the water is colder, I have them do cold water exposure, especially face exposure into the cold water to get them habituated to that initial severe constriction and sympathetic activity that we don't want to happen before a race.

就像我说的，当我有开放水域游泳运动员要进行长距离游泳或他们要参加铁人三项且水较冷时，我让他们进行冷水暴露，尤其是将脸暴露在冷水中，以使他们习惯最初的严重收缩和交感神经活动，这是我们不希望在比赛前发生的。

With heat being the true, like, true heat that we're talking about with sauna, we see a lot of metabolic changes for women, so we're having better insulin and glucose control.

由于热量是真正的热量，就像我们在桑拿中谈论的真正的热量一样，我们看到女性发生了很多代谢变化，因此我们可以更好地控制胰岛素和血糖。

We're seeing a better expression of our heat shock proteins and the uncoupling and the rebuilding of those proteins, better cardiovascular responses.

我们看到热休克蛋白的更好表达以及这些蛋白质的解偶联和重建，以及更好的心血管反应。

And then for women, as we get older and have the offshoot of hot flashes, night sweats, that kind of stuff, if you're doing heat exposure, you're sending a stronger stimulus to the hypothalamus, and you're also getting a better serotonin production from the gut, because we have 95% of our serotonin produced from the gut, which lends to better temperature control and shuts down hot flashes.

对于女性来说，随着年龄的增长，我们会出现潮热、盗汗之类的症状，如果你暴露在高温下，你就会向下丘脑发出更强的刺激，你的肠道也会产生更好的血清素，因为我们 95% 的血清素是由肠道产生的，这有助于更好地控制温度并阻止潮热。

Andrew Huberman: I think some people might be confused by the idea of using sauna in order to reduce the hot flashes.

Andrew Huberman：我认为有些人可能会对使用桑拿来减少潮热的想法感到困惑。

So I'll just remind people that your brain has a set of neurons in the medial preoptic area that's sort of a thermostat, if you will, controlling core body temperature.

所以我只想提醒人们，你的大脑在内侧视前区有一组神经元，如果你愿意的话，它们有点像恒温器，可以控制核心体温。

And if you heat the surface of your body, your medial preoptic neurons say, oh, let's cool down the core of the body.

如果你加热身体的表面，你的内侧视前神经元会说，哦，让我们冷却身体的核心。

Now, if you stay in that heat too long, you'll cook, your core body temperature will go up.

现在，如果你在高温下停留太久，你就会做饭，你的核心体温就会升高。

But conversely, if the surface of your body is made cold, the internal milieu of your body will heat up, because those medial preoptic neurons will say, oh, this is like putting an ice pack on the thermostat, which is what graduate students and postdocs used to do in the labs I'd work in, because it was a battle over the heater.

但相反，如果你身体的表面变冷，你身体的内部环境就会升温，因为那些内侧视前神经元会说，哦，这就像在恒温器上放一个冰袋，这就是我工作的实验室里研究生和博士后所做的事情，因为这是一场关于加热器的战斗。

Some people ran hot, some people ran cold.

有的人热，有的人冷。

So it was always this business, in any event.

所以无论如何，这始终是这件事。

So it's not that you disapprove of using deliberate cold exposure.

所以这并不是说你不赞成故意暴露在寒冷中。

You just recommend that women do deliberate cold exposure with temperatures that are maybe in the low 50-degree-Fahrenheit range, as opposed to the really, frankly, just painfully cold for anybody, 38-to-50-degree temperatures.

你只是建议女性有意识地暴露在 50 华氏度的低温下，而不是坦率地说，对任何人来说都非常寒冷的 38 到 50 华氏度的温度。

Is that right?

是这样吗？

Stacy Sims: We did a pilot study looking because Wim Hof has been down to New Zealand quite a bit, and so his breathing and ice bath stuff has been making the rounds and working in the high performance.

Stacy Sims：我们进行了一项试点研究，因为 Wim Hof 经常去新西兰，所以他的呼吸和冰浴技术一直在流传并发挥着高性能。

People wanted to do that, but we have few athletes that have really severe endometriosis.

人们想这样做，但我们很少有运动员患有真正严重的子宫内膜异位症。

It's like, well, we could look at using cold exposure to help control that.

就像，我们可以考虑使用冷暴露来帮助控制这一点。

And what we found over the course of this study was that if we were to do deliberate cold exposure around ovulation and then hold it for ten days over the course of three menstrual cycles.

在这项研究过程中我们发现，如果我们在排卵前后故意进行冷暴露，然后在三个月经周期中保持十天。

It attenuated the endometriosis.

它减轻了子宫内膜异位症。

Because endometriosis is an inflammatory disease, right?

因为子宫内膜异位症是一种炎症性疾病，对吧？

So if we're looking at inflammation process and growing the tissue, if we can dampen that inflammation and create a response that learns that inflammation and dampens it, then it helps with endometriosis.

因此，如果我们关注炎症过程和组织生长，如果我们能够抑制炎症并产生一种反应来了解炎症并抑制它，那么它有助于子宫内膜异位症。

Andrew Huberman: Very interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：非常有趣。

Stacy Sims: That's another avenue that we really want to take when we're looking at cold, deliberate cold exposure.

Stacy Sims：当我们考虑寒冷、故意的寒冷暴露时，这是我们真正想要采取的另一条途径。

Andrew Huberman: Wow.

安德鲁·休伯曼：哇。

Fascinating.

迷人。

As a cautionary note, if anyone is going to explore Wim Hof-type methods, please, please, please do not combine cyclic hyperventilation or hyperventilation of any kind with breath holds and water exposure.

需要注意的是，如果有人要探索 Wim Hof 类型的方法，请不要将循环过度换气或任何形式的过度换气与屏气和水暴露结合起来。

Not even in the depth of a puddle.

即使在水坑深处也不行。

There have been drownings associated with people doing cyclic hyperventilation in various contexts.

因人们在各种情况下进行周期性过度换气而发生溺水事件。

Not just related to Hof breathing, but basically people who are not skilled and even some who are skilled, combining cyclic hyperventilation, breath holds and water in any form, cold or warm water, just don't.

不仅与霍夫呼吸有关，而且基本上那些不熟练的人，甚至一些熟练的人，结合循环过度换气、屏气和任何形式的水，冷水或温水，就是不这样做。

If you're going to do any kind of cyclic hyperventilation breathing, and my lab's actually published on this in a clinical trial, do it on dry land or don't do it at all.

如果你要做任何类型的周期性过度换气呼吸，而我的实验室实际上已经在临床试验中发表了这方面的文章，那么请在干燥的土地上进行，或者根本不进行。

And if you're going to do deliberate cold exposure, limit your breathing to slow, deep breath, make sure that you're well supervised, and just stay alive, please.

如果你打算故意暴露在寒冷的环境中，请将你的呼吸限制为缓慢的深呼吸，确保你受到良好的监督，并保持活力。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, we didn't incorporate any of the Wim Hof breathing, we just incorporated the deliberate water.

Stacy Sims：是的，我们没有加入任何 Wim Hof 呼吸，我们只是加入了故意的水。

Andrew Huberman: Cold water exposures, cold and temperature generally is such a potent stimulus, and it's exciting that people are starting to explore this, especially, in my opinion, the sauna work.

Andrew Huberman：冷水暴露、寒冷和温度通常是一种强有力的刺激，令人兴奋的是人们开始探索这一点，特别是在我看来，桑拿工作。

One thing I suppose that we should discuss very briefly before we move on.

我认为在我们继续之前我们应该非常简短地讨论一件事。

Since we've been talking about resistance training, we've been talking about deliberate cold exposure.

既然我们一直在谈论阻力训练，我们就一直在谈论刻意的寒冷暴露。

There is evidence that doing deliberate cold exposure not so much in the form of a cold shower, but in the form of a submersion up to the neck, post strength or resistance training, say in the four, but probably the eight hours after resistance training because of the attenuation of the inflammatory response, which sounds like a great thing, it actually can inhibit some of the strength and hypertrophy gains that one would otherwise experience.

有证据表明，刻意的冷暴露并不是以冷水淋浴的形式，而是以浸没到颈部的形式，在力量或阻力训练后，比如在四小时内，但可能是在阻力训练后八小时，因为炎症反应的减弱，这听起来像是一件好事，它实际上可以抑制一些原本会经历的力量和肥大的增加。

So if you're going to do deliberate cold exposure, best to not do it in the eight hours or even on the same day after resistance training geared towards developing strength and hypertrophy increases.

因此，如果您打算刻意进行寒冷暴露，最好不要在旨在增强力量和增肌的阻力训练后的八小时内甚至当天进行。

No problem to do it first.

先做没有问题。

In fact, maybe even some performance-enhancing effects of doing it first.

事实上，首先这样做甚至可能会产生一些性能增强的效果。

There's some athletes at Stanford doing that, but just want to throw that out there.

斯坦福大学有一些运动员这样做，但只是想把它扔出去。

Is there anything else you want to add to that?

您还有什么要补充的吗？

Stacy Sims: Which is different from heat exposure because heat exposure, you want to do afterwards.

Stacy Sims：这与热暴露不同，因为热暴露是你想要事后做的。

Yeah.

是的。

Because it extends that training stimulus.

因为它扩展了训练刺激。

And also the passive dehydration from training will stimulate greater blood volume improvements.

训练中的被动脱水也会刺激血容量的更大改善。

Andrew Huberman: Oh, interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，有趣。

So after a good weight training session, if one has the luxury of doing it, get into the sauna for...?

那么，在一次良好的举重训练之后，如果有幸的话，可以去桑拿房……？

Stacy Sims: Up to 30 minutes,

Stacy Sims：最多 30 分钟，

Andrew Huberman: Make sure you're hydrating.

Andrew Huberman：确保你补充水分。

Stacy Sims: You want slow rehydration, because part of it is that dehydration and the decrease of oxygen at the level of the kidney to stimulate more EPO.

Stacy Sims：你需要缓慢补液，因为部分原因是脱水和肾脏水平的氧气减少，以刺激更多的 EPO。

So with more red cell production, you have natural increase in plasma volume.

因此，随着红细胞产量的增加，血浆量自然会增加。

So it's a blood volume expander.

所以它是一种血容量扩张剂。

Andrew Huberman: So now we're getting into real performance enhancement.

Andrew Huberman：现在我们正在进入真正的性能增强阶段。

Is this true for men and for women?

对于男性和女性来说都是如此吗？

Stacy Sims: Yep.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman: Let's walk through this protocol.

Andrew Huberman：让我们来看看这个协议。

I like this.

我喜欢这个。

This has not been discussed on this podcast.

本播客尚未对此进行讨论。

So somebody does their resistance training, finishes up, drinks eight or 16oz of water with a little salt in it, maybe, and then hops in the sauna.

因此，有人进行阻力训练，结束后，喝 8 或 16 盎司的水，也许加点盐，然后跳进桑拿浴室。

Stacy Sims: Yep.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: For how long?

安德鲁·休伯曼：持续多久？

Stacy Sims: Up to 30 minutes.

Stacy Sims：最多 30 分钟。

Andrew Huberman: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

Stacy Sims: No longer.

史黛西·西姆斯：不再是了。

Andrew Huberman: No longer, no longer.

安德鲁·休伯曼：不再，不再。

Yeah, they'll probably be a little bit thirsty in there.

是的，他们可能会有点渴。

You're looking for a little low-level dehydration, is that right?

您正在寻找轻度脱水，是吗？

Stacy Sims: Yep.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

The ranges that I've seen published in the Finnish studies are, as I recall, and I'll double check these numbers, 186 degrees Fahrenheit up to about 210 Fahrenheit.

我记得，我在芬兰研究中看到的温度范围是 186 华氏度到大约 210 华氏度，我会仔细检查这些数字。

And the higher end only being for those that are heat adapted, one can cover their head with a towel and actually feel more comfortable because the brain is insulated.

高端仅适用于那些适应热的人，人们可以用毛巾盖住头部，实际上感觉更舒服，因为大脑是绝缘的。

This surprises people.

这让人们感到惊讶。

They think putting something on their head would make it excessively warm, but you actually are protecting your brain from some of the heat.

他们认为在头上放一些东西会使其变得过于温暖，但实际上你是在保护你的大脑免受一些热量的影响。

Stacy Sims: And people will put a towel over so that when they breathe, it doesn't burn the inside of their nose and their mouth either.

史黛西·西姆斯：人们会在上面盖上一条毛巾，这样当他们呼吸时，毛巾也不会灼伤他们的鼻子和嘴巴内部。

I'm always like, if you're going to be in and it's that hot, just move down a level.

我总是喜欢，如果你要进去，而且天气那么热，就往低一层走吧。

Andrew Huberman: Yep.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

And this stimulates the production of more red blood cells.

这会刺激更多红细胞的产生。

Okay.

好的。

Which then translates to what, in terms of athletic performance?

那么，就运动表现而言，这意味着什么呢？

Stacy Sims: You have an increase in your cardiovascular effort.

Stacy Sims：您的心血管活动有所增加。

And because you have greater amount of blood volumes, you have greater amount of pretty much blood circulating.

因为你有更多的血量，所以你有更多的血液循环。

So you have more available for muscle metabolism, heat loss.

这样你就有更多的可用于肌肉新陈代谢，热量散失。

So it's akin to going to altitude.

所以这类似于去海拔高度。

So people will go to altitude to get that blood volume boost.

因此，人们会去海拔较高的地方来增加血容量。

But not everyone responds to altitude because you have responders, nonresponders, overresponders.

但并不是每个人都会对海拔高度做出反应，因为有反应者、无反应者和过度反应者。

Andrew Huberman: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

This is why when I go to Colorado, I'm gasping for air while I do a walk.

这就是为什么当我去科罗拉多州时，我散步时会喘气。

But then I come back to sea level, and I feel better.

但当我回到海平面时，我感觉好多了。

My endurance is better, but some people might not experience that effect.

我的耐力比较好，但有些人可能体会不到这种效果。

Stacy Sims: True.

史黛西·西姆斯：确实如此。

This is, I was telling the guys before we started that I've been in our sauna at home in preparation for going to Park City.

在我们开始之前，我告诉大家我一直在家里的桑拿房里准备去帕克城。

Because I live at a beach town and going to Park City, I am a significant responder to altitude, and I won't be able to have coherent meetings at altitude if I am not adapted.

因为我住在一个海滨小镇，要去帕克城，所以我对海拔高度有明显的反应，如果我不适应，我将无法在海拔高度举行连贯的会议。

So, okay, yeah.

所以，好吧，是的。

Andrew Huberman: So this explains why when I've gone to meetings in Colorado at altitude, some people can have a drink that first night and they're perfectly fine, even though they normally live at sea level.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这解释了为什么当我在科罗拉多州高海拔地区参加会议时，有些人可以在第一晚喝一杯，而且他们完全没有问题，即使他们通常生活在海平面上。

And I'm trying to see the stairs correctly, even though I don't drink.

尽管我不喝酒，但我还是努力看清楼梯。

Stacy Sims: Yep, that would be it.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，就是这样。

Andrew Huberman: Very interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：非常有趣。

So you can use postresistance-training sauna exposure to improve performance.

因此，您可以利用抗阻训练后的桑拿浴来提高表现。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, you can use it postcardio as well.

Stacy Sims：是的，你也可以在心后使用它。

So anything that is giving you that passive dehydration from training, because you're not, because you will become passively dehydrated when you're training, you can't keep in as much fluid.

因此，任何让你在训练中被动脱水的东西，因为你没有，因为你在训练时会被动脱水，你就无法保持那么多的液体。

So I'm saying passive, as in you're not able to stop that dehydration.

所以我说的是被动，因为你无法阻止脱水。

And then you go into the sauna and you are extending that training stimulus because your heart rate is elevated, you're putting your body under stress from dehydration and the body responds in kind, of we need more blood volume.

然后你进入桑拿房，你会延长训练刺激，因为你的心率会升高，你会让你的身体承受脱水带来的压力，而身体也会做出同样的反应，因为我们需要更多的血容量。

So let's jump start that.

那么让我们开始吧。

Andrew Huberman: I love it.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢它。

Logically watertight and I'm going to give it a try.

逻辑上无懈可击，我要尝试一下。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: What other training tricks tips do you have up your sleeve, Dr. Sims?

Andrew Huberman：Sims 博士，您还有哪些其他训练技巧？

Stacy Sims: What you want to talk about?

史黛西·西姆斯：你想谈什么？

Andrew Huberman: Do you have any favorites besides that?

Andrew Huberman：除此之外你还有什么最喜欢的吗？

I delight in these and I know other people will as well.

我很喜欢这些，我知道其他人也会喜欢。

Do any come to mind?

有想到的吗？

I mean, you've taught us about Schisandra, about post-training sauna exposure to improve performance by increasing red blood cell.

我的意思是，您向我们介绍了五味子，以及训练后的桑拿浴，以通过增加红细胞来提高表现。

Is there anything else that kind of springs to mind?

还有其他类似的事情吗？

No, no pressure.

不，没有压力。

Stacy Sims: I'm a fan of what I call the track stack that we used to use for track athletes, but then for really significant high-intensity work.

Stacy Sims：我很喜欢所谓的“田径堆栈”，我们过去将其用于田径运动员，但后来用于真正重要的高强度工作。

So track stack is kind of the idea from the old bodybuilding set where you're taking 200 milligrams of caffeine, low dose baby aspirin, but then I add beta-alanine.

所以 Track Stack 是一种来自旧式健美训练的想法，你需要服用 200 毫克咖啡因、低剂量的婴儿阿司匹林，然后我添加 β-丙氨酸。

Andrew Huberman: Used to be ephedrine.

Andrew Huberman：曾经是麻黄碱。

Stacy Sims: I know.

史黛西·西姆斯：我知道。

Andrew Huberman: So I'm old enough to remember when they would sell it as the triple stack with ephedrine, but some people dropped dead and they took it off the market.

安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：所以我已经足够大了，记得他们什么时候会把它作为麻黄碱的三重组合出售，但有些人死了，他们把它从市场上撤下来。

Stacy Sims: Yep.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Hey, it came back on the market in New Zealand last week.

嘿，它上周在新西兰重新上市。

Andrew Huberman: Did it really?

安德鲁·休伯曼：真的吗？

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: It gets you going?

安德鲁·胡伯曼：它让你继续前进吗？

Stacy Sims: Yes, it does.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，确实如此。

Andrew Huberman: It's speedy, it's dangerous.

Andrew Huberman：速度很快，但很危险。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

But the track stack, which has beta-alanine in, not ephedrine, is really good at encouraging an extra top-end effect because you're having the caffeine, you're having a little bit of the blood thin from the aspirin and then the vasodilatory properties and the carnosine aspect for muscle contraction from the beta-alanine.

但是，含有β-丙氨酸而不是麻黄碱的轨迹堆栈确实非常擅长激发额外的高端效应，因为你喝了咖啡因，你喝了一点阿司匹林的血液稀释剂，然后β-丙氨酸具有血管舒张特性和肌肽，可以使肌肉收缩。

And so like training for gravel races in the top-end sprint, you do a couple of sprint sessions with that.

就像在高端冲刺赛中进行砾石比赛训练一样，你可以用它进行几次冲刺训练。

It's increasing your training stress during the training.

它会增加你在训练期间的训练压力。

So your adaptation is to that higher stress.

所以你的适应是为了适应更高的压力。

Andrew Huberman: Should anything be done in terms of recovery to make sure that you offset that additional stress that's achieved with this track stack?

Andrew Huberman：在恢复方面是否应该做一些事情来确保抵消这个赛道带来的额外压力？

Stacy Sims: Yeah, just making sure that you're not stacking two days in a row of high-intensity work, like really making sure that you're recovering well because it is a significant stress on the body.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，只是确保你不会连续两天进行高强度工作，就像真正确保你恢复良好一样，因为这会给身体带来很大的压力。

Andrew Huberman: What about sleep?

安德鲁·休伯曼：睡眠怎么样？

We hear so much these days about the importance of sleep for mental health, physical health, performance.

这些天我们听到很多关于睡眠对心理健康、身体健康和表现的重要性。

I think this is a great thing, a great trend.

我认为这是一件伟大的事情，一个伟大的趋势。

Are there female specific requirements for sleep that vary across the menstrual cycle and or by age or just generally?

女性对睡眠的特定要求是否会因月经周期和/或年龄而变化，或者只是普遍变化？

Do men and women need to think about the need for sleep differently?

男性和女性是否需要以不同的方式思考睡眠的需要？

Stacy Sims: Yeah, part of it is the obvious, like, when you're talking about sleep temperature, right.

Stacy Sims：是的，其中一部分是显而易见的，例如，当你谈论睡眠温度时，对吧。

Women and men have variations in their sleep temperature and what's optimal.

女性和男性的睡眠温度和最佳睡眠温度存在差异。

So looking at that, like, you need to create an environment for you that is cool, comfortable, which is probably going to be different from your partner who might be sharing your bed.

因此，从这个角度来看，您需要为自己创造一个凉爽、舒适的环境，这可能与与您同床共枕的伴侣不同。

So that becomes a sticky point.

所以这成为一个棘手的问题。

We talk about the menstrual cycle.

我们谈论月经周期。

There are definitive changes in sleep architecture.

睡眠结构发生了明确的变化。

We're seeing that in around the midluteal to the premenstrual.

我们在黄体中期到经前期间看到了这一点。

So you know that about ten days before your period starts, significant change in your slow wave sleep, there's less of it.

所以您知道，在月经开始前大约十天，您的慢波睡眠会发生显着变化，而且会减少。

Latency is increased, so you have a longer time to get to sleep and you have more light sleep.

延迟时间会增加，因此您入睡的时间会更长，浅睡眠也会更浅。

So overall, you know, less of that deep recovery sleep.

所以总的来说，你知道，深度恢复睡眠的时间较少。

And this is where women tend to have more of their mood issues too, because of estrogen's play with serotonin in the brain of.

由于雌激素与大脑中的血清素相互作用，女性也更容易出现情绪问题。

So we really need to nail down our sleep hygiene in that time period.

所以我们确实需要确定那段时间的睡眠卫生。

So looking at things like L-theanine and apigenin and looking at your room temperature and the screens and all the things that you've talked about for the most part about sleep and sleep hygiene, super important.

因此，查看 L-茶氨酸和芹菜素等物质，查看室温、屏幕以及您大部分时间谈论的有关睡眠和睡眠卫生的所有内容，非常重要。

And then, of course, as you get older in both men and women, becomes more difficult to sleep.

当然，随着年龄的增长，无论男性还是女性，入睡都会变得更加困难。

But we see a significant issue with insomnia in women who have really bad hot flushes and significant menopausal symptoms.

但我们发现，对于那些有严重潮热和明显更年期症状的女性来说，失眠是一个重大问题。

And again, this has to do with lots of the perturbations from temperatures of night sweats, increased sympathetic load, not being able to get into a parasympathetic state.

再说一次，这与盗汗、交感神经负荷增加、无法进入副交感神经状态等诸多扰动有关。

So this is where working with a specific sleep specialist might come into play.

因此，这就是与特定睡眠专家合作可能发挥作用的地方。

We can also look at using some adaptogens, the rhodiola stacked with theanine and looking at the cold temperature, getting people to use the non-sleep deep rest, or yoga nidra, or some other kind of meditative property that they can then access when they're in bed.

我们还可以考虑使用一些适应原，即与茶氨酸堆叠的红景天，并观察寒冷的温度，让人们使用非睡眠深度休息，或瑜伽休息术，或其他一些他们在床上时可以使用的冥想特性。

So there's a lot of different things that we have to be aware of.

因此，我们必须注意很多不同的事情。

And again, in that perimenopausal state, we see that significant change in sleep and sleep architecture and quality of the sleep.

同样，在围绝经期状态下，我们看到睡眠、睡眠结构以及睡眠质量发生了显着变化。

But men don't have the same thing.

但男人却没有同样的东西。

So women have to be a little bit more aligned with what's happening from a hormonal profile standpoint, because it does definitively affect serotonin, melatonin, and sleep architecture because of the interplay that estrogen has on the brain and the receptors.

因此，从荷尔蒙分布的角度来看，女性必须更加了解正在发生的事情，因为由于雌激素对大脑和受体的相互作用，它确实会影响血清素、褪黑激素和睡眠结构。

Andrew Huberman: Makes very good sense.

安德鲁·休伯曼：很有道理。

We'll put a link in the show note captions to some zero-cost non-sleep deep rest, yoga nidras.

我们将在节目说明文字中添加一些零成本非睡眠深度休息、瑜伽休息术的链接。

We've put out a couple with my voice.

我们用我的声音推出了一些。

If you prefer another voice, I'm a big fan of the ones by Kelly Boys, who's contributed to the Waking Up app.

如果您喜欢其他声音，我非常喜欢 Kelly Boys 的声音，他为 Wake Up 应用程序做出了贡献。

It also has terrific non-sleep deep rest yoga nidras out there.

它还有很棒的非睡眠深度休息瑜伽休息法。

And there are others as well.

还有其他的。

You mentioned a few supplements, theanine, apigenin, which is chamomile extract, maybe let's just have a general conversation about supplements.

您提到了一些补充剂，茶氨酸、芹菜素（洋甘菊提取物），也许我们可以就补充剂进行一般性对话。

What's your thought on supplements?

您对补充剂有何看法？

How do you place them into the landscape of nutrition?

您如何将它们纳入营养领域？

They are, after all, supplements, not replacements.

毕竟，它们是补充品，而不是替代品。

The word supplements, I believe, is a little bit misleading because there are food-based supplements, like a protein powder.

我认为补充剂这个词有点误导，因为有基于食物的补充剂，比如蛋白粉。

There are supplements designed to achieve a specific outcome, and then there are supplements that are designed to be more support for a bunch of things.

有些补充剂旨在实现特定结果，还有一些补充剂旨在为许多事情提供更多支持。

Insurance policy.

保单。

What are some of your favorite supplements in any of those categories, specifically for women, and perhaps even specifically during certain phases of the menstrual cycle?

在这些类别中，您最喜欢的补充剂有哪些，尤其是针对女性，甚至可能是针对月经周期的某些阶段？

Perimenopause.

围绝经期。

Menopause.

绝经。

I just threw about nine questions at you.

我刚刚向你提出了九个问题。

Stacy Sims: Okay.

史黛西·西姆斯：好的。

The number one is creatine.

第一个是肌酸。

Creatine for women, doesn't matter what age, it's really important.

肌酸对于女性来说，无论什么年龄，都非常重要。

We're seeing a lot for brain mood and actually gut health.

我们看到了很多关于大脑情绪和肠道健康的信息。

Andrew Huberman: So 5 grams of creatine monohydrate per day, sort of typically

Andrew Huberman：每天 5 克一水肌酸，通常是这样

Stacy Sims: Three to five.

史黛西·西姆斯：三到五。

Andrew Huberman: Three to five.

安德鲁·休伯曼：三到五。

Stacy Sims: Preferably, of course, Creapure because of the way it's produced.

Stacy Sims：当然，最好是 Creapure，因为它的制作方式。

So if you're looking at Creapure, it's the German company that produces.

因此，如果您查看的是 Creapure，它是一家德国公司生产的。

It uses a water-based wash to produce the creatine.

它使用水基洗涤来生产肌酸。

Andrew Huberman: Interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：有趣。

Stacy Sims: Whereas others use an acid-based wash.

Stacy Sims：而其他人则使用酸基清洗剂。

And we see a lot of side effects with the acid-base wash.

我们发现酸碱清洗有很多副作用。

Like gastric distress.

就像胃病一样。

So people are like, oh, I'm really bloated.

所以人们会说，哦，我真的很臃肿。

And I have nausea and stuff from taking creatine.

我因服用肌酸而感到恶心等症状。

I'm like, is it Creapure?

我想，这是 Creapure 吗？

Actually, no. It's like, switch to Creapure.

事实上，没有。就像，切换到 Creapure。

And so they switch and they're like, oh, my gosh, I feel so much better.

于是他们就改变了态度，然后他们就说，哦，天哪，我感觉好多了。

Andrew Huberman: Noted.

安德鲁·休伯曼：注意到了。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

And then vitamin D3.

然后是维生素D3。

Really important, especially when we're looking at all the information that's coming out from cardiovascular, muscle, brain, everything that goes with vitamin D, also with iron.

非常重要，尤其是当我们查看来自心血管、肌肉、大脑以及与维生素 D 和铁相关的所有信息时。

So vitamin D is really important for absorbing and maintaining iron stores.

因此，维生素 D 对于吸收和维持铁储备非常重要。

So those are the two big ones.

这是两个大问题。

And then-

然后——

Andrew Huberman: Sorry, I just wanted to stop you for a moment.

Andrew Huberman：抱歉，我只是想暂时打断你。

As it relates to creatine, I hear two general lines of concern.

当它与肌酸相关时，我听到了两种普遍的担忧。

One I hear more often from women.

我更常从女性那里听到这样的说法。

My understanding is that because creatine brings water into the muscle, as well as supporting the phosphocreatine system of the brain, the water into the muscle component means, yes, people who take creatine 3 to 5 grams per day will gain a few pounds of body weight.

我的理解是，因为肌酸将水带入肌肉，并支持大脑的磷酸肌酸系统，所以水进入肌肉成分意味着，是的，每天服用肌酸 3 至 5 克的人体重会增加几磅。

That's solid body weight in the form of water within the muscle.

这是肌肉内以水的形式存在的固体体重。

So solid in air quotes, it's water, but it's within the muscle.

空气中的固体如此坚固，它是水，但它在肌肉内。

So they should know that.

所以他们应该知道这一点。

Stacy Sims: It's not a given, though.

Stacy Sims：但这并不是理所当然的。

Andrew Huberman: Interesting.

安德鲁·休伯曼：有趣。

Stacy Sims: It's not a given.

Stacy Sims：这不是理所当然的。

There are some women on the lower dose of three that don't experience the water gain.

有些女性在服用较低剂量的三剂量时不会出现水分增加的情况。

Andrew Huberman: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

And this is not bloat like water, subcutaneous water.

而且这不是水那样的浮肿，是皮下积水。

This is water within the muscles, so it will be stored within lean tissue.

这是肌肉内的水，因此它将储存在瘦肉组织内。

And then I do hear concerns about creatine causing hair loss.

然后我确实听到人们担心肌酸会导致脱发。

My understanding is there is zero evidence for that.

我的理解是，这方面的证据为零。

Stacy Sims: No evidence.

史黛西·西姆斯：没有证据。

Andrew Huberman: There is a smidgen of evidence that it might increase dihydrotestosterone levels, but it's like one study, marginal increase.

安德鲁·休伯曼：有一点证据表明它可能会增加二氢睾酮水平，但这就像一项研究，边际增加。

And then people linked dihydrotestosterone to hair loss.

然后人们将二氢睾酮与脱发联系起来。

And so then the conclusion people drew was that somehow creatine increases hair loss.

于是人们得出的结论是，肌酸会以某种方式增加脱发。

But you're saying zero evidence.

但你说的是零证据。

Stacy Sims: No evidence.

史黛西·西姆斯：没有证据。

We see that women who start taking it midlife are complaining about it, but it's actually a progestin-driven thing.

我们看到中年开始服用它的女性对此有所抱怨，但这实际上是孕激素驱动的事情。

We see progesterone and fluctuation.

我们看到黄体酮和波动。

Progesterone can exacerbate any hair loss.

黄体酮会加剧脱发。

So if women are experiencing that and they're saying, oh, it's creatine.

因此，如果女性遇到这种情况，她们会说，哦，这是肌酸。

I've read all this stuff on creatine.

我读过所有关于肌酸的内容。

No, it's not.

不，不是。

Andrew Huberman: Okay, so we've got creatine, D3 — 1000 IUs per day, 5000 IUs.

Andrew Huberman：好的，我们有肌酸、D3——每天 1000 个国际单位，5000 个国际单位。

I guess it depends a little bit.

我想这取决于一点。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Being very close to Antarctica in the southern hemisphere in the winter, very low sunlight exposure.

冬季，南半球距离南极洲很近，阳光照射很少。

Looking around the 5000, same with upper northern hemisphere UK, that kind of stuff.

看看 5000 左右，与北半球上半球的英国一样，类似的东西。

Closer you get to the equator, the less you need.

越靠近赤道，需要的就越少。

The one concern is like a day here where it's foggy and it's supposed to be sunny and people are like, great.

一个令人担心的问题是，这里有雾的一天，本来应该是阳光明媚的，人们却说，太棒了。

I don't, you know, don't have to worry about going out in sun exposure.

你知道，我不必担心外出时会被阳光照射。

But then the next day it's bright and sunny and they're like, ooh, sunscreen.

但第二天天气晴朗，他们就像，哦，防晒霜。

So they put sunscreen on and not getting the right sun exposure.

所以他们涂了防晒霜，却没有得到适当的阳光照射。

So then again, it is a lifestyle thing.

话又说回来，这是一种生活方式。

So basic is 2000 to 5000.

所以基本是2000到5000。

Andrew Huberman: Great.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 太好了。

Okay, so we've got creatine, vitamin D3.

好的，我们有肌酸、维生素 D3。

What are some of the other supplements that you, that you take or that you, I don't know if we say suggest, but that you perhaps suggest women consider.

您服用的其他补充剂是什么，我不知道我们是否建议，但您可能建议女性考虑。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, so protein powder, really good, high quality.

Stacy Sims：是的，蛋白粉，真的很好，质量很高。

Because the amount of protein that women should be getting is often difficult to eat.

因为女性应该摄入的蛋白质量往往很难吃。

So again, supplementing, not using it as the mainstay.

所以还是那句话，是补充，而不是作为主体。

That's one to consider.

这是一个需要考虑的问题。

And then again, I'm about adaptogens.

再说一次，我是关于适应原的。

So looking at the different adaptogens, ashwagandha is a good one.

因此，从不同的适应原来看，南非醉茄是一个很好的选择。

Holy basil or Tulsi is another one.

圣罗勒或图尔西是另一种。

Schisandra.

五味子。

And then getting into some of your medicinal mushrooms.

然后开始研究一些药用蘑菇。

Lion's mane, Reishi.

狮子鬃毛，灵芝。

Those are the two big ones that I look to and often have women use

这是我关注并且经常让女性使用的两个大工具

Andrew Huberman: If these adaptogens blunt cortisol, because certain ones do like ashwagandha, which by the way, I do think people should cycle if they're going to take it high doses because there are some issues with liver and thyroid and thyroid problems if people take ashwagandha at high doses for too long.

安德鲁·休伯曼：如果这些适应原会削弱皮质醇，因为某些人确实喜欢南非醉茄，顺便说一句，我确实认为如果人们要服用高剂量南非醉茄，就应该骑自行车，因为如果人们长时间服用高剂量南非醉茄，肝脏和甲状腺会出现一些问题。

So that's important to note.

所以这一点需要注意。

But assuming that the adaptogens are reducing cortisol levels in addition to doing other things, is there a particular time of day or night that people should consider taking them?

但假设适应原除了做其他事情外还可以降低皮质醇水平，那么人们应该考虑在白天或晚上的特定时间服用它们吗？

Should they avoid taking it early in the day?

他们应该避免在当天早些时候服用吗？

My understanding was that you want a bit of that cortisol bump early in the day, but you certainly want cortisol lowered later in the day.

我的理解是，你希望在当天早些时候增加一点皮质醇，但你肯定希望在当天晚些时候降低皮质醇。

Stacy Sims: Yep.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

And I think the problem is people think that they don't want any cortisol.

我认为问题在于人们认为他们不需要任何皮质醇。

They think that would be bad.

他们认为那会很糟糕。

That would be bad.

那会很糟糕。

They don't understand that the body has fluctuations of cortisol throughout the day.

他们不明白身体一天中皮质醇的波动。

Normal.

普通的。

If we're looking at having issues with sleeping and that anxiety provoke from that sympathetic drive and elevation of cortisol, let it peak in the morning after you're waking up, and look late afternoon, like four when it starts to dip, to take your adaptogens, then, because then it feeds forward to being able to relax more, which feeds forward to better sleep.

如果我们正在考虑睡眠问题，以及由交感神经驱动和皮质醇升高引起的焦虑，那么让它在早上醒来后达到峰值，然后在下午晚些时候，比如四点，当它开始下降时，服用你的适应原，因为那时它会促进你能够更加放松，从而促进更好的睡眠。

For something like Schisandra, where you're looking for that brain focus, you can have it in the morning.

对于像五味子这样的东西，如果你正在寻找大脑集中注意力的东西，你可以在早上服用。

It doesn't necessarily have as big an impact on cortisol that you see with something like Tulsi or ashwagandha, because Schisandra is more stimulatory, the other two are more calming.

它不一定对皮质醇有像图尔西或南非醉茄那样大的影响，因为五味子更具刺激性，其他两种更镇静。

I put some in my morning coffee and then in the afternoon, when I need to pick me up, instead of more caffeine, I'll use Schisandra, because it gives you that boost without the effects of caffeine and it doesn't interfere with sleep.

我在早上的咖啡里放了一些，然后在下午，当我需要起床的时候，我会使用五味子，而不是更多的咖啡因，因为它可以在没有咖啡因影响的情况下给你提神，而且不会干扰睡眠。

So there's a time and a place to take them.

所以有时间和地点可以带他们去。

And, yes, some need to be cycled on, some need to be cycled off.

是的，有些需要循环开启，有些需要循环关闭。

But I tell women, what are your main symptoms?

但我告诉女性，你的主要症状是什么？

What are the things you're looking to control?

您希望控制哪些事情？

And we can look and see what kind of adaptogens we can use and how we place them, what's the story.

我们可以看看我们可以使用什么样的适应原以及我们如何放置它们，这是什么故事。

Andrew Huberman: With pregnancy and training?

Andrew Huberman：怀孕和训练？

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Now, is there an official word on this?

Andrew Huberman：现在有官方消息吗？

You know, assuming a woman knows that she's pregnant from the very beginning of missing a period, where she's in a position to make decisions about training or not training.

你知道，假设一名女性从月经推迟一开始就知道自己怀孕了，那么她就可以决定是否进行训练。

Training at a given intensity or not.

是否按给定强度进行训练。

What are your recommendations?

您有什么建议？

Stacy Sims: The human body is really interesting, and when you get pregnant, your body tells you what you can do.

Stacy Sims：人体真的很有趣，当你怀孕时，你的身体会告诉你你能做什么。

So we see that you have a reduction in your anaerobic capacity on purpose.

所以我们看到你故意降低了无氧能力。

Your body's trying to be protective.

你的身体正在努力提供保护。

You do have an expansion of your blood volume, so endurance is really good, but you can't do high intensity.

你的血容量确实增加了，所以耐力确实很好，但你不能做高强度的运动。

When we're looking at the general guidelines that are out there, they've gotten rid of the heart rate rule.

当我们查看现有的一般准则时，他们已经摆脱了心率规则。

They are now telling women to be as active as they can be without creating injury and without trying to make gains.

他们现在告诉女性要尽可能活跃，不要造成伤害，也不要试图获得收益。

So that means if you're in the weight room, you're not looking to improve, you're looking to maintain.

所以这意味着如果你在举重室，你并不是想提高，而是想保持。

If you're doing cardiovascular work, and you have a specific class that you love to go to.

如果您正在做心血管工作，并且您有一个喜欢参加的特定课程。

Yeah, but don't beat yourself up that you can't hit that high intensity.

是的，但不要因为自己无法达到那么高的强度而自责。

You're going for the social aspect.

你要去社交方面。

You're not trying to gain fitness; you're trying to maintain.

你并不是为了健身；而是为了获得健康。你正在努力维护。

I think the very worst possible scenario is someone is super active and stops doing everything because they're afraid.

我认为最糟糕的情况是有人非常活跃并且因为害怕而停止做所有事情。

Because then they get deconditioned and then they end up in a worse state than someone who was sedentary, who's now encouraged to walk during exercise.

因为这样他们就会失去适应能力，最终会比那些久坐不动的人处于更糟糕的状态，而现在鼓励他们在锻炼期间步行。

It hasn't been well researched because you can't get ethics to study pregnant women very well.

它还没有得到很好的研究，因为你无法得到很好地研究孕妇的伦理学。

So we go a lot on case studies and case study notes.

因此，我们进行了大量案例研究和案例研究笔记。

And the bottom line of it all is you stay active, and you can do resistance training, you can do all the cardiovascular work, and your body will tell you what you can and can't do.

最重要的是你保持活跃，你可以进行阻力训练，你可以做所有的心血管工作，你的身体会告诉你什么可以做，什么不能做。

Andrew Huberman: I've been asked whether or not pregnant women can do deliberate cold exposure.

Andrew Huberman：有人问我孕妇是否可以故意暴露在寒冷中。

Probably no fewer than 2500 times on social media.

在社交媒体上可能不少于2500次。

And I never have an answer.

而我却始终没有答案。

But I always default to the cautious answer, which is, please don't until you talk to somebody who actually has an answer.

但我总是默认谨慎的答案，也就是说，请不要这样做，直到你与真正有答案的人交谈。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Just because it sounds like a very precarious situation.

安德鲁·休伯曼：只是因为这听起来像是一个非常不稳定的情况。

But in all honesty, I don't know.

但老实说，我不知道。

I'm just biding time there and saying, please go ask somebody who can give you a definitive answer.

我只是在那里等待时间，然后说，请去询问可以给你明确答案的人。

Stacy Sims: Yes.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

So we see women who have a high risk for miscarriage that anything that they do that's incredibly stressful for the first 12 to 20 weeks will put them at a higher risk for it.

因此，我们发现流产风险较高的女性在前 12 至 20 周内所做的任何会给她们带来极大压力的事情都会使她们面临更高的流产风险。

So being very cautious, especially with cold, because we know that there are so many different nuances.

因此要非常谨慎，尤其是在感冒时，因为我们知道有很多不同的细微差别。

Doing something like hot yoga when you're pregnant is not.

怀孕时做热瑜伽之类的事情则不然。

There is research, so it's not detrimental.

有研究，所以没有坏处。

Yeah, because when we're looking at blood flow diversion that way, when you have slight hypoxia to the placenta and to the baby, there is a rebound effect that increases the vascularization so that the baby has better nutrients.

是的，因为当我们以这种方式看待血流转移时，当胎盘和婴儿轻微缺氧时，就会产生反弹效应，增加血管化，使婴儿获得更好的营养。

We see this also with, like, exercise and exercise intensities.

我们在锻炼和锻炼强度等方面也看到了这一点。

This is why people are now saying, you need to have some kind of blood flow change and increase in core temperature to create these vascular effects within the placenta to improve nutrient and nutrient delivery to the developing fetus.

这就是为什么人们现在说，你需要某种血流变化和核心温度升高，才能在胎盘内产生这些血管效应，从而改善营养和营养物质向发育中的胎儿的输送。

So heat's good.

所以热度是好的。

Cold I'm not so sure of.

冷我不太确定。

Andrew Huberman: Probably not extreme heat.

Andrew Huberman：可能不是极端炎热。

Stacy Sims: Not extreme heat.

Stacy Sims：不是酷热。

So that's what I mean.

这就是我的意思。

Like, hot yoga is not going to the sauna.

就像，热瑜伽不是去桑拿。

Hot yoga sits around 40 degrees Celsius.

热瑜伽的温度约为 40 摄氏度。

So what is that?

那么那是什么？

Just around 100 degrees Fahrenheit?

大约 100 华氏度？

And in that situation, if you're feeling too hot, you leave, you lie down on the floor.

在这种情况下，如果你感觉太热，你就会离开，躺在地板上。

Don't try to stay for the whole class, but it's not going to be detrimental unless you're pushing yourself too much.

不要试图在整个课堂上留下来，但这不会有什么坏处，除非你逼自己太多。

Again, everything in moderation, especially when you're pregnant.

再说一次，一切都要适度，尤其是当你怀孕的时候。

Andrew Huberman: It's almost the inverse of what we know for males, which is if men want to conceive, they should avoid the sauna, because we know that heat is detrimental to sperm viability in a real way.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这几乎与我们对男性的了解相反，如果男性想要怀孕，他们应该避免桑拿，因为我们知道热量实际上不利于精子的活力。

So much so that I tell guys if they are trying to get their partner pregnant, that they should bring an ice pack into the sauna.

以至于我告诉人们，如果他们想让他们的伴侣怀孕，他们应该带一个冰袋进入桑拿房。

They should insulate that ice pack.

他们应该隔离冰袋。

Don't put it directly on the scrotum for other reasons, but that it's a.

出于其他原因不要将其直接放在阴囊上，但它是一个。

You know that the effects of heat, the negative effects of heat on sperm are real.

你知道热量的影响，热量对精子的负面影响是真实存在的。

But there's also an interesting.

但也有一个有趣的地方。

It's not just a trend.

这不仅仅是一种趋势。

There's actually some research showing that cooling the testicles leads to increases in testosterone, which is, on the face of it, kind of counterintuitive, because it turns out that it's about the vasoconstriction, causing the subsequent increase in blood flow, increased vasodilation.

实际上有一些研究表明，冷却睾丸会导致睾丸激素增加，从表面上看，这有点违反直觉，因为事实证明，这与血管收缩有关，导致随后的血流量增加，血管舒张增加。

So the inverse of what you just said, which is that during the heating process, the hypoxia induces more vascularization of the placenta.

所以和你刚才说的相反，就是在加热过程中，缺氧会导致胎盘更多的血管化。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: So when talking about temperature, one always has to think about the surface of the body versus the brain response, as we talked about earlier, and then what's happening during the deliberate heat or deliberate cold versus what's happening after the deliberate heat or deliberate cold.

Andrew Huberman：因此，在谈论温度时，我们总是必须考虑身体表面与大脑反应，正如我们之前谈到的，然后是在故意加热或故意寒冷期间发生的情况与故意加热或故意寒冷之后发生的情况。

Everything in biology is a process, not an event.

生物学中的一切都是一个过程，而不是一个事件。

Stacy Sims: And I should make full disclosure.

Stacy Sims：我应该全面披露。

I started as an environmental exercise physiologist and my Ph.D. was all in heat and heat research, so I'm a little bit biased towards heat, but I've done a significant amount of research in the hot and cold.

我最初是一名环境运动生理学家，后来获得博士学位。都是关于热和热的研究，所以我有点偏向于热，但我在热和冷方面做了大量的研究。

Andrew Huberman: Thank you for the disclosure.

安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢您的披露。

I see it more as an indication of real knowledge.

我更多地将其视为真正知识的体现。

So thank you.

所以谢谢你。

This is an aspect of your training I knew a little bit about, based on your publications, but I didn't realize the depth of knowledge.

根据您的出版物，我对您的培训的一个方面有所了解，但我没有意识到知识的深度。

So we're all benefiting here, including this earlier protocol of sauna post training.

所以我们都在这里受益，包括早期的桑拿后训练方案。

You can bet a lot of people are going to start incorporating that.

你可以打赌很多人会开始融入这一点。

I think we might need to name that.

我想我们可能需要命名它。

I've done this from time to time, named protocols, because people are reluctant to name them after themselves.

我时常这样做，命名为协议，因为人们不愿意以自己的名字命名它们。

Maybe we call that the Sims protocol or something like that.

也许我们称之为 Sims 协议或类似的东西。

Anyway, your discomfort will be other people's benefit.

不管怎样，你的不适将会是别人的利益。

Now seems like a good time to address some specific questions related to the age brackets that you mentioned earlier.

现在似乎是解决一些与您之前提到的年龄段相关的具体问题的好时机。

In anticipation of sitting down with you today, I asked some different women that I know, if you could ask the world expert in exercise physiology, hormones and nutrition, etc. as it relates to women, one question, what would it be?

期待今天与您坐下来，我问了一些我认识的不同女性，如果您可以向世界运动生理学、激素和营养等领域的专家询问与女性有关的一个问题，您会问什么问题？

And one of the most common questions I got in the 50-and-up category was, what is the most efficient way for a woman older than 50 to train for the maximum health span and lifespan benefits?

我在 50 岁及以上人群中最常见的问题之一是，对于 50 岁以上的女性来说，为了获得最大的健康寿命和寿命益处而进行训练的最有效方法是什么？

Stacy Sims: I love this question because I get it all the time.

Stacy Sims：我喜欢这个问题，因为我一直收到这个问题。

We have to turn our brains away from everything that's been predicated before to this point.

我们必须把我们的大脑从之前所预测的一切上转移开来。

So if we're looking for longevity and we're looking at what we want to do when we're 80 or 90, we want to be independently living, we want to have good proprioception, balance, we want to have good bones, and we want to be strong.

因此，如果我们想要长寿，并且想知道80岁或90岁的时候我们想做什么，我们想要独立生活，我们想要拥有良好的本体感觉、平衡能力，我们想要拥有良好的骨骼，我们想要变得强壮。

So this is where we look at ten minutes, three times a week, jump training.

这就是我们每周三次、十分钟的跳跃训练。

So this isn't your landing softly in our knees.

所以这并不是你轻轻地落在我们的膝盖上。

This is like impact in the skeletal system.

这就像对骨骼系统的影响。

A colleague and friend of mine, Tracy Cassels, did a Ph.D. and post, not a postdoc, but post research on this and is developing an app on it to show women how to jump to improve bone mineral density.

我的一位同事兼朋友特雷西·卡塞尔 (Tracy Cassels) 获得了博士学位。并发表，不是博士后，而是对此进行研究，并正在开发一个应用程序，向女性展示如何跳跃以提高骨矿物质密度。

Over the course of four months of this type of training, people have gone from being osteopenic to normal bone density.

经过四个月的此类训练，人们的骨质密度已经从骨质减少变为正常。

So it's a different type of stress.

所以这是一种不同类型的压力。

So if your concern is that, which a lot of women do have a concern, because they lose about one third of their bone at the onset of menopause.

所以，如果你担心的是，很多女性确实有这样的担忧，因为她们在更年期开始时会失去大约三分之一的骨质。

Andrew Huberman: Wow.

安德鲁·休伯曼：哇。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Significantly.

显著地。

Andrew Huberman: Goodness gracious.

安德鲁·休伯曼：天哪。

Stacy Sims: If you don't do something as an intervention.

Stacy Sims：如果你不采取一些干预措施。

So we see a lot of women are like, oh, I'm going to go on menopause hormone therapy to stop bone loss.

所以我们看到很多女性都想，哦，我要继续更年期激素治疗来阻止骨质流失。

Yeah, it can be a treatment, but I always look at an external stress that we can put on the body that's going to invoke a change without pharmaceuticals.

是的，它可以是一种治疗方法，但我总是关注我们可以施加在身体上的外部压力，这种压力将在不使用药物的情况下引发变化。

So jump training, heavy resistance training, training, and sprint interval training, those are the three key things.

所以跳跃训练、大阻力训练、间歇训练、冲刺训练，这三个是关键。

And from a training standpoint, and then from a nutrition standpoint, getting protein.

从训练的角度来看，然后从营养的角度来看，获取蛋白质。

Protein is so important.

蛋白质是如此重要。

When you start telling women they need to look at around 1 to 1.1 gram per pound, which is around that, 2 to 2.3 grams per kilo per day, they're like, whoa, that's a lot of protein.

当你开始告诉女性她们需要注意每磅大约 1 到 1.1 克，即每天每公斤 2 到 2.3 克时，她们会说，哇，那是很多蛋白质。

It is, because we haven't been conditioned to eat it.

是的，因为我们还没有习惯吃它。

Andrew Huberman: Two scrambled eggs.

安德鲁·休伯曼：两个炒鸡蛋。

It's a chicken breast at lunch.

午餐是鸡胸肉。

It's a small steak at dinner, plus other things.

晚餐就是一块小牛排，还有其他的东西。

Stacy Sims: Right, exactly.

史黛西·西姆斯：对，完全正确。

It doesn't all have to be animal products.

不一定全部都是动物产品。

I mean, you're looking at all the different beans and things that you can put together.

我的意思是，你正在研究所有不同的豆子和可以组合在一起的东西。

And that's the other big thing, that in order to build the muscle and to keep the body composition and state that we want it to keep going for longevity.

这是另一件大事，为了增强肌肉并保持身体成分，并希望它能够持续长寿。

Those are the big rocks, the sprint interval training, the heavy resistance training, the jump training, and the protein.

这些是大石头、冲刺间歇训练、大阻力训练、跳跃训练和蛋白质。

Andrew Huberman: I'm thinking about this, and I'm thinking about my mother, who's 79 years old.

Andrew Huberman：我正在思考这个问题，我正在思考我 79 岁的母亲。

She'll be 80 at the end of June and is in good health, walks a lot, gardens, does some yoga, but does none of the things that you're describing.

她到六月底就年满 80 岁了，身体健康，经常散步、园艺、做一些瑜伽，但没有做您所描述的任何事情。

So, Mom, please, I'm going to send her to listen to this.

所以，妈妈，拜托，我要派她来听听这个。

In the same vein, what about the women out there age 20 to, maybe we make it the 20-to-40 bracket.

同样，20 岁到 20 岁的女性怎么样，也许我们将其划分为 20 岁到 40 岁的年龄段。

And if we need to divide that more finely, we can.

如果我们需要更精细地划分，我们可以。

What is the most efficient way for them to train for health, vigor, and longevity?

对他们来说，为了健康、活力和长寿而进行训练最有效的方法是什么？

Stacy Sims: Making things fun.

史黛西·西姆斯：让事情变得有趣。

For the most part, I don't want people to think that it's a chore.

在大多数情况下，我不想让人们认为这是一件苦差事。

So if you're someone who's been told you need to run and you hate running, then don't run.

因此，如果有人告诉你需要跑步，但你讨厌跑步，那就不要跑步。

That's common sense.

这是常识。

And I say that because I see little kids in non-U.S. countries that have to run across country.

我这么说是因为我看到非美国国家的小孩子必须穿越国家。

And you see these kids when they're six years old and all running around the field, and they're the kids that hate running, that aren't natural runners, and then they hate physical activity for the rest of their life.

你看到这些孩子六岁时就在田野里奔跑，他们是那些讨厌跑步的孩子，他们不是天生的跑步者，然后他们在余生中都讨厌体育活动。

So I put that in, like, when you are exercising, you want to find something that you find fun.

所以我把它放进去，就像，当你锻炼时，你想要找到一些你觉得有趣的东西。

When you're in your 20s to 40s, you have more room to get away with things that might not be optimal for you when you start get older.

当你在 20 多岁到 40 多岁的时候，你有更多的空间来摆脱那些当你开始变老时可能不适合你的事情。

Big rock, again, is resistance training.

再说一遍，阻力训练是最重要的。

It doesn't have to be heavy resistance training, like I said earlier, to failure.

正如我之前所说，它不一定是高强度的阻力训练，直至力竭。

You're periodizing.

你正在分期。

If you want to do a block of Olympic lifting, go for it.

如果你想进行奥林匹克举重训练，那就去做吧。

If you're like, I'm not comfortable doing that kind of lifting.

如果你喜欢的话，我对做那种举重感到不舒服。

I want to do more machine stuff, great.

我想做更多机器的东西，太好了。

But we want to make sure you're changing it up all the time to keep things moving and shaking with regards to strength and hypertrophy.

但我们希望确保你一直在改变它，以保持力量和肥大方面的变化和震动。

And then it becomes more of, are you training for something that's enduring?

然后问题就变成了，你训练的目的是为了持久的东西吗？

Are you looking for just longevity?

你只是在寻找长寿吗？

For brain health?

为了大脑健康？

We need to have some lactate production, because women, as I said at the beginning of the podcast, are more oxidative.

我们需要产生一些乳酸，因为正如我在播客开头所说的那样，女性的氧化程度更高。

We don't have as many of those glycolytic fibers.

我们没有那么多的糖酵解纤维。

So what we're finding in older research is that there's a misstep in brain lactate metabolism because the brain hasn't been exposed to it, especially if we're looking at women who are being studied now.

因此，我们在较早的研究中发现，大脑乳酸代谢存在失误，因为大脑尚未接触到乳酸，特别是如果我们现在正在研究的女性。

It hasn't been in a societal context to do that kind of work.

做这样的工作还没有在社会背景下进行。

The younger we are, and the more that we can keep our glycolytic fibers going by doing high-intensity work, the more we are exposing our brain to lactate, the better we see fast-forward to attenuating cognitive decline and reducing the plaque development of Alzheimer's.

我们越年轻，越能通过高强度工作来保持糖酵解纤维的运转，让大脑接触到的乳酸越多，我们就能更好地看到减缓认知能力下降和减少阿尔茨海默氏症斑块发展的快进。

This is why women who are in their 40s plus I want them to do the sprint and the high-intensity work for that lactate production, start early, because then you can take some of those type-2B fibers that could either go more aerobic or anaerobic and make them more anaerobic aerobic.

这就是为什么 40 多岁的女性，我希望她们尽早开始冲刺和高强度工作，以产生乳酸，因为这样你就可以服用一些 2B 型纤维，这些纤维要么更加有氧，要么更加无氧，使她们变得更加无氧有氧。

So those are the two big things for women who are younger, and then you can play around with the other things if you want to be an ultraendurance athlete.

因此，对于年轻女性来说，这两件事是最重要的，如果你想成为一名超耐力运动员，你可以尝试其他事情。

Yeah, not really ideal, but, yeah, you can do that.

是的，不太理想，但是，是的，你可以做到。

That's fine.

没关系。

You'll recover well.

你会康复得很好。

Andrew Huberman: Now forgive me, because you've said it several times throughout today's discussion, but I really want to drive home a key point that I think for most people, men and women, is not obvious but is really important.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：现在请原谅我，因为在今天的讨论中你已经说过好几次了，但我真的想强调一个关键点，我认为对于大多数人，无论男女，并不明显，但非常重要。

When you say high intensity, you don't mean a class or a run where you're drenched in sweat and gasping for air at the end, necessarily.

当你说高强度时，你不一定指的是一堂课或一次跑步，其中你一定会大汗淋漓、大口喘气。

Stacy Sims: Correct.

史黛西·西姆斯：正确。

Andrew Huberman: Let's disambiguate high intensity from what most people think of high intensity, which is a really hard workout, a tough class where they had me moving the whole time, doing a circuit, etc. What is the appropriate high intensity workout look like?

Andrew Huberman：让我们将高强度与大多数人对高强度的理解区分开来，高强度是一项非常艰苦的锻炼，是一门艰苦的课程，他们让我一直在移动，做一个循环，等等。合适的高强度锻炼是什么样的？

Stacy Sims: Okay, so if I talk about true high-intensity interval training, if you're a runner, it's going to the track and doing sets of 400, 800-

Stacy Sims：好吧，如果我谈论真正的高强度间歇训练，如果你是一名跑步者，那就去跑道上做 400、800 组——

Andrew Huberman: So 400, a lap.

Andrew Huberman：400，一圈。

Stacy Sims: Yep.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Eight hundred.

安德鲁·休伯曼：八百。

Stacy Sims: Two laps.

史黛西·西姆斯：两圈。

So you're looking at between a minute and four minutes of, of hard work at 80% or more with variable recovery.

因此，您需要观察 80% 或更多的一分钟到四分钟的艰苦训练，并且恢复情况各不相同。

So that's why I use a track as a, as an example.

这就是为什么我使用曲目作为示例。

So if you do one and you're like, oh, I'm going to walk half a lap and then do it again, that's adequate recovery.

因此，如果你做了一次之后你会想，哦，我要走半圈，然后再做一次，这就是充分的恢复。

Andrew Huberman: Tough.

安德鲁·休伯曼：很难。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, it's hard, right.

Stacy Sims：是的，这很难，对吧。

But it's not like you're going to be there for 90 minutes, doing as many 400s as you can, because you have that variable recovery, it might take half an hour to 40 minutes max, and then you're gassed out, you can't do it anymore.

但这并不意味着你会在那里呆90分钟，尽可能多地做400秒，因为你的恢复能力是可变的，最多可能需要半小时到40分钟，然后你就会筋疲力尽，你再也做不到了。

If we're looking at a gym situation, I like to look at something like every minute on the minute where you might be doing ten deadlifts at moderate intensity weight.

如果我们查看健身房的情况，我喜欢查看每分钟的情况，您可能会以中等强度的重量进行十次硬拉。

Andrew Huberman: And it takes ten repetitions.

Andrew Huberman：需要重复十次。

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

So it takes you 50 seconds to complete that.

所以你需要 50 秒才能完成。

Then you have 10 seconds to move to the next exercise.

然后您有 10 秒钟的时间进行下一个练习。

That might be thrusters, so you know, a squat, clean thruster, so it's a squat pulling the weight up overhead.

这可能是推进器，所以你知道，一个深蹲的、干净的推进器，所以这是一个深蹲，将重量拉到头顶。

So you're doing maybe eight of those in that minute and you might have 10-second recovery.

所以你可能在那一分钟内做了八次，然后你可能有 10 秒的恢复时间。

You go to the next exercise, that might be kettlebell swings and you're doing explosive kettlebell swings and you'll finish, you know, 10 seconds to go.

你进行下一个练习，可能是壶铃摆动，你正在进行爆发性的壶铃摆动，你知道，还剩 10 秒你就会完成。

You go to the fourth exercise, I don't know, toes to bar or some other kind of v up, some other high intensity, and then you have one minute completely off.

你进行第四个练习，我不知道，脚趾到杠铃或其他类型的 V 形向上，其他一些高强度，然后你有一分钟​​的时间完全休息。

So you've had four minutes of really heavy work with maybe 10 seconds to move to the next exercise, one minute completely off, and then you repeat that three times.

所以你已经做了四分钟的繁重工作，可能有 10 秒的时间进行下一个练习，一分钟完全休息，然后你重复这个动作 3 次。

Andrew Huberman: And this is high-intensity interval training.

Andrew Huberman：这是高强度间歇训练。

This is not what you would consider resistance training for sake of building muscle or strength.

这不是您认为的为了增强肌肉或力量而进行的阻力训练。

Stacy Sims: Correct.

史黛西·西姆斯：正确。

Andrew Huberman: You're using these loads, these machines, the pike, you know, hanging from the bar and bring your knees up or L-sit or something as a tool to get the heart rate up continually.

Andrew Huberman：你使用这些负荷、这些机器、长矛，你知道，悬挂在杠上，抬起膝盖或 L-sit 或其他东西作为工具来不断提高心率。

Very different than resistance training the way most people think about it.

与大多数人认为的阻力训练非常不同。

Stacy Sims: Correct.

史黛西·西姆斯：正确。

So this is the cardiovascular high-intensity interval training, and the subset of that is sprint interval training.

这就是心血管高强度间歇训练，其中的子集是冲刺间歇训练。

And this is something that's really, really hard and people don't get it.

这是非常非常困难的事情，人们无法理解。

I don't necessarily mean running, it can be whatever mode of activity, but it's 30 seconds or less as hard as you can go.

我不一定指的是跑步，它可以是任何活动方式，但只要你能做到 30 秒或更短的时间即可。

So this is your nine or 10 on your rating of perceived exertion, 110%.

因此，这是您对感知努力程度的 9 或 10 分，即 110%。

It's max effort.

已经是最大努力了

Andrew Huberman: On the rower, on the Airdyne bike, running, if you like.

Andrew Huberman：划船、Airdyne 自行车、跑步，如果你喜欢的话。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, any of those things.

Stacy Sims：是的，任何这些事情。

Andrew Huberman: The skier.

安德鲁·休伯曼：滑雪者。

Stacy Sims: Battle ropes are big.

Stacy Sims：战绳很大。

Andrew Huberman: So 30 seconds all out, then rest.

Andrew Huberman：所以全力以赴 30 秒，然后休息。

What?

什么？

10-15 seconds, repeat?

10-15秒，重复？

Stacy Sims: No, you want to, because now we're looking at that top end where we want regeneration of your ATP, you know, all of that system and central nervous system recovery.

Stacy Sims：不，你想要，因为现在我们正在寻找顶端，我们希望你的 ATP 再生，你知道，所有系统和中枢神经系统恢复。

So this is 30 seconds all out.

所以这就是 30 秒。

Could be two or three minutes of recovery.

可能需要两到三分钟的恢复时间。

Andrew Huberman: Oh, nice.

安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，很好。

Stacy Sims: Because I'm not looking at Tabata where you're 20 seconds on, 20 seconds off.

Stacy Sims：因为我不会看 Tabata，那里有 20 秒的时间，20 秒的时间。

Because that's not the intensity we want.

因为那不是我们想要的强度。

We want you to go all out and recover well enough to be able to go all out again.

我们希望您全力以赴并恢复得足够好，以便能够再次全力以赴。

You're not leaving anything in the tank.

你不会在水箱里留下任何东西。

So those are what I mean by high-intensity interval training, or when you're looking at polarizing your cardiovascular work, that's the top end.

这就是我所说的高强度间歇训练的意思，或者当你考虑极化你的心血管工作时，这就是最高端的训练。

Those are the two examples of your top end.

这是您的高端的两个例子。

And then your recovery is that long, slow walking on another day where you're not going and doing a tempo run, you're not doing a 5k easy jog, because that puts you in that moderate intensity.

然后你的恢复就是在另一天进行长时间、缓慢的步行，你不会去进行节奏跑，你不会进行 5 公里轻松慢跑，因为这会让你处于中等强度。

Andrew Huberman: And if I heard you correctly earlier, you are suggesting most women do one or two days of high-intensity interval training plus three to four days of resistance training for sake of building strength and muscle, which looks very different.

安德鲁·休伯曼：如果我之前没听错的话，您是建议大多数女性进行一到两天的高强度间歇训练，再加上三到四天的阻力训练，以增强力量和肌肉，这看起来非常不同。

It's more warm up, do a couple work sets, you know, two to four work sets of, you know, an overhead press, two or four work sets of maybe a barbell curl, two or four sets of some dips or whatever, whatever ones, you know, personal choices.

更热身，做几组工作，你知道，两到四组工作，你知道，过头推举，两到四组工作，可能是杠铃弯举，两到四组一些臂屈伸或其他什么，无论什么，你知道，个人选择。

Okay, got it.

好的，明白了。

Very different.

非常不同。

Far and away different than what most people, men or women, are doing out there, which is a lot of Stairmaster, treadmill, jogging, maybe some lifting for hypertrophy.

这与大多数人（无论男性还是女性）所做的事情有很大不同，那就是进行大量的楼梯练习、跑步机、慢跑，也许还有一些举重来增肌。

Stacy Sims: Because I look at the general consensus of what's out there in the fitness world is all based on aesthetics and body composition.

Stacy Sims：因为我认为健身界的普遍共识都是基于美学和身体成分。

And so people have this mentality of I need to be hypertrophy to get swole, and I need to do long, slow stuff on the cardio machine to lose body fat.

所以人们有这样的心态：我需要变得肥大才能变得臃肿，我需要在有氧运动机上做长时间、缓慢的运动来减少体内脂肪。

But that isn't what we're after.

但这不是我们所追求的。

We're after let's create really strong external stress to create adaptations, not only from a neural and a brain standpoint that's understanding it, but also feeding down to metabolic change.

我们追求的是创造真正强大的外部压力来创造适应，不仅从理解它的神经和大脑的角度来看，而且还要促进新陈代谢的变化。

Because if you have a really significant high stress, we see epigenetic changes within the muscle that increase the amount of what we call the GLUT4 gates.

因为如果你承受着非常大的压力，我们就会看到肌肉内的表观遗传变化，从而增加我们所说的 GLUT4 门的数量。

So, you know, the proteins that open up that allow carbohydrate to come in without insulin.

所以，你知道，打开的蛋白质可以让碳水化合物在没有胰岛素的情况下进入。

So we're expanding that acute glucose uptake through an epigenetic change.

因此，我们正在通过表观遗传变化来扩大葡萄糖的急性摄取。

The other thing that it does is it causes an acute inflammatory response that your body learns to overcome.

它的另一件事是它会引起急性炎症反应，您的身体会学会克服这种反应。

And it's really important for women to do that because as we start to lose estrogen, we lose a significant anti-inflammatory agent.

对于女性来说，这样做非常重要，因为当我们开始失去雌激素时，我们就会失去一种重要的抗炎剂。

So this is why we see that increase in the visceral fat, especially when we're hitting your mid-40s onwards, is because now you have this increase in free fatty acids.

这就是为什么我们看到内脏脂肪增加，尤其是当我们 40 多岁以后，是因为现在您的游离脂肪酸增加了。

And the inability for inflammation to come down.

并且炎症无法消退。

So the muscle cell is going, I don't know what to do with this.

所以肌肉细胞会动，我不知道该怎么办。

So it gets circulated to the liver, and the liver stores it as visceral fat, whereas if you do that high-intensity work, it creates that change within the muscle.

因此它会循环到肝脏，肝脏将其储存为内脏脂肪，而如果你进行高强度的工作，它会在肌肉内产生这种变化。

To understand pull that in, let's use it.

为了理解这一点，让我们使用它。

Let's also bring more carbohydrate in and more glucose, and use that, which helps use free fatty acids.

我们还可以摄入更多的碳水化合物和更多的葡萄糖，并使用它们，这有助于利用游离脂肪酸。

And it also creates a significant anti-inflammatory response at the level of the mitochondria and within the cell itself, which is what estrogen used to do.

它还在线粒体水平和细胞本身内产生显着的抗炎反应，这正是雌激素过去的作用。

So if we look at those external stresses, it's not about body comp and aesthetics per se.

因此，如果我们关注这些外部压力，它与身体成分和美观本身无关。

It's about the molecular changes that we want to invoke to get that body composition and the brain health that allow us to be 80 or 90 and independently living.

这是关于我们希望通过分子变化来获得身体成分和大脑健康，使我们能够在 80 岁或 90 岁时独立生活。

Andrew Huberman: And in terms of nutrition, you mentioned women should shoot for 1.1, 1.2 grams of quality protein per pound of body weight.

Andrew Huberman：在营养方面，您提到女性应该争取每磅体重 1.1 至 1.2 克优质蛋白质。

What other types of foods do you like to see women ingesting?

您还喜欢女性摄入哪些其他类型的食物？

So are you a fan of fruits?

那么你是水果迷吗？

Stacy Sims: Yeah.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Great.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 太好了。

Well, these days you sort of have to ask in these circles.

好吧，现在你不得不在这些圈子里提问。

Vegetables, fiber is important.

蔬菜中，纤维很重要。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, absolutely.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，绝对是。

Andrew Huberman: And then in terms of starches to replace glycogen, especially if people are doing these high-intensity interval training sessions and the resistance training, what are your preferred sources?

Andrew Huberman：然后就替代糖原的淀粉而言，特别是如果人们正在进行这些高强度间歇训练和阻力训练，您的首选来源是什么？

Stacy Sims: Depends on who I'm working with.

Stacy Sims：取决于我和谁一起工作。

I have some people who love Coco Pops and kids' cereals.

我有些人喜欢可可汽水和儿童麦片。

Andrew Huberman: Oh, I cringe at that stuff.

安德鲁·休伯曼：哦，我对那些东西感到畏缩。

But, you know, I prefer rice and oatmeal, and I like a really good sourdough bread with butter or olive oil, you know, guilty of that.

但是，你知道，我更喜欢米饭和燕麦片，而且我喜欢带有黄油或橄榄油的非常好的酸面包，你知道，对此感到内疚。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, but there are some people will like the ultraprocessed stuff.

Stacy Sims：是的，但有些人会喜欢超加工的东西。

So I'm like, okay, if you really, really need it, then you can put it on top of your yogurt after training as part of your carbohydrate uptake.

所以我想，好吧，如果你真的非常需要它，那么你可以在训练后将它放在酸奶上，作为碳水化合物吸收的一部分。

Andrew Huberman: It's the only time because GLUT4 levels are so high, you're basically pulling everything into glycogen at that point anyway.

Andrew Huberman：这是唯一一次，因为 GLUT4 水平如此之高，无论如何，你基本上都会在那时将所有东西拉入糖原。

Stacy Sims: But ideally, carbs are all the different colorful fruit and veg.

Stacy Sims：但理想情况下，碳水化合物是各种不同颜色的水果和蔬菜。

And if we're looking at sweet potatoes or kumara, if you're from other parts of the world, yams, all those kinds of things, sprouted bread, fantastic, quinoa, amaranth, all of those different types of things, it's just staying away from the ultraprocessed.

如果我们看的是红薯或库马拉，如果你来自世界其他地方，山药，所有这些东西，发芽面包，神奇的，藜麦，苋菜，所有这些不同类型的东西，它只是远离超加工。

And when we look at women, it's really important to have a very significant diversity in the gut microbiome.

当我们观察女性时，肠道微生物组具有非常显着的多样性非常重要。

So we see there's a definitive decrease when we start to have hormonal shifts because of the way the gut bugs help deconjugate or unwrap some of our hormones and shoot them back out in the circulation.

因此，我们发现，当我们开始出现荷尔蒙变化时，荷尔蒙就会明显减少，因为肠道细菌会帮助我们分解或解开一些荷尔蒙，并将它们射回循环系统中。

So as much fiber, colorful fruit and veg as you can.

尽可能多的纤维、色彩鲜艳的水果和蔬菜。

But also, it's the 80/20 rule, right?

而且，这是 80/20 规则，对吧？

Eighty percent of the time you're spot on.

百分之八十的时间你都是正确的。

20% is life.

20%是生命。

Because otherwise, where do we get our chocolate and our whiskey?

否则的话，我们从哪里得到巧克力和威士忌呢？

Andrew Huberman: And there's some data that chocolate is good for us.

安德鲁·休伯曼：有一些数据表明巧克力对我们有好处。

Stacy Sims: It is.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Especially the low-sugar dark chocolates.

Andrew Huberman：尤其是低糖黑巧克力。

Stacy Sims: How I look at it is how it makes you feel.

史黛西·西姆斯（Stacy Sims）：我的看法就是它给你的感受。

Makes you feel good, right?

让你感觉良好，对吧？

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

One has to live.

人必须活着。

And fats.

还有脂肪。

Where do you like to see women get their fats from?

您希望看到女性从哪里获取脂肪？

Stacy Sims: Again, I'll do a full disclosure.

Stacy Sims：我再次进行全面披露。

I have been vegan since I was in high school because of an incident of a field trip to a pig slaughterhouse and driving down the 5.

我从高中起就开始吃素了，因为一次去生猪屠宰场实地考察并开车冲下 5 号公路的事件。

But that's my own preference.

但这是我自己的偏好。

So when we're looking at fats, it can be from a lot of different sources.

因此，当我们研究脂肪时，它可能来自许多不同的来源。

I prefer women to have most their fats from plant-based stuff, not because I am plant based, but because of the effect it has on the body.

我更喜欢女性的大部分脂肪来自植物性物质，不是因为我是植物性物质，而是因为它对身体的影响。

But there is a time and a place for animal fats too.

但动物脂肪也有其存在的时间和地点。

The whole fear mongering of saturated fatty acids from dairy has been disproven.

关于乳制品中饱和脂肪酸的整个恐惧散布已被证明是错误的。

So if we're looking at what kinds of fats, you want a conglomerate, but you want most of them to come from whole food plant based, not from ultraprocessed.

因此，如果我们正在研究什么类型的脂肪，您需要一个集团，但您希望其中大部分来自全食品植物，而不是来自超加工。

And then of course, you're reaching for some real butter, you're reaching for some 4% fat yogurt or something like that to complement your avocados, your nuts, your seeds and your olive oils.

当然，你会吃一些真正的黄油，你会吃一些 4% 的脂肪酸奶或类似的东西来补充你的鳄梨、坚果、种子和橄榄油。

Andrew Huberman: That all sounds very rational and delicious, in my opinion.

Andrew Huberman：在我看来，这一切听起来都非常理性和美味。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, it's too common sense.

Stacy Sims：是的，这太常识了。

People don't do it.

人们不这样做。

Andrew Huberman: I think if people hear it from you, they'll do it.

Andrew Huberman：我认为如果人们听到你的建议，他们就会这么做。

I think people just need to hear it in the context of a nondiet context.

我认为人们只需要在非饮食背景下听到它。

And you've done an amazing job today of explaining how nutrition fuels training.

今天你在解释营养如何促进训练方面做得非常出色。

Training fuels changes at the level of the muscle, the liver, etc. that allow one to ingest more fuel.

训练会导致肌肉、肝脏等层面的能量发生变化，从而使人能够摄入更多的能量。

In fact, a lot of what I'm hearing is that women should probably ingest more quality fuels in order to offset these cortisol spikes.

事实上，我听到的很多说法是，女性应该摄入更多优质燃料，以抵消皮质醇的峰值。

Stacy Sims: Absolutely.

史黛西·西姆斯：当然。

Andrew Huberman: And feel better while training and to train more, which everyone agrees, provided it's done properly, is great for us.

Andrew Huberman：训练时感觉更好，并且进行更多训练，每个人都同意，只要做得正确，这对我们来说是很好的。

Kind of a fun, hopefully fun question for you.

这是一个有趣的问题，希望对你来说也很有趣。

If you had a magic wand and you could get all the women on earth now and going forward to make a change or changes — you don't have to pick just one — in terms of nutrition, how they think about their hormone cycle, exercise, health span, lifespan, what would it be?

如果你有一根魔杖，你可以让地球上所有的女性现在和未来做出一个或多个改变——你不必只选择一个——在营养方面，她们如何看待自己的激素周期、锻炼、健康寿命、寿命，那会是什么？

Stacy Sims: I think I would have everyone understand their intrinsic selves because we have been inundated so much with sociocultural rhetoric and so much external noise that women have forgotten what it means to listen to themselves and their bodies.

史黛西·西姆斯：我想我会让每个人都了解自己的内在自我，因为我们已经被社会文化言论和外部噪音淹没了，以至于女性已经忘记了倾听自己和身体的声音意味着什么。

I mean, that's the one thing that I have to reteach women to do so often.

我的意思是，这是我必须经常重新教导女性做的一件事。

So if I could have a magic wand and have every woman understand what their bodies are saying and what their cycles are saying, and perimenopause is normal, everyone's going to go through it if you have had a menstrual cycle.

因此，如果我能有一根魔杖，让每个女人都了解她们的身体在说什么，她们的周期在说什么，而且围绝经期是正常的，如果你有月经周期，每个人都会经历它。

Just to intrinsically understand what their body is, so then they have the tool to be able to implement external stressors that's going to be beneficial for them.

只是为了从本质上了解他们的身体是什么，这样他们就有了能够实施对他们有益的外部压力源的工具。

Andrew Huberman: Well, Dr. Stacey Sims, this has been tremendously educational for me and I know for everybody listening and/or watching.

安德鲁·休伯曼：史黛西·西姆斯博士，这对我来说非常有教育意义，我知道每个人都在听和/或观看。

You've taken us on an amazing tour of the best ways to train with cardiovascular training and resistance training, those tailored specifically for women, as well as touching into some protocols for both men and women that are immensely powerful.

您带领我们进行了一次令人惊奇的旅程，了解心血管训练和阻力训练的最佳训练方法，这些训练是专门为女性量身定制的，并且涉及了一些对男性和女性都非常有效的方案。

Talked a lot about the menstrual cycle.

谈论了很多关于月经周期的事情。

I get asked about the menstrual cycle and how it relates to training and vice versa so many times.

我多次被问及月经周期以及它与训练的关系，反之亦然。

And thank you for providing clear, actionable answers.

感谢您提供清晰、可行的答案。

And you've also educated us on caffeine supplements, including revealing some supplements that I didn't know existed, which is not a common occurrence for me.

您还向我们介绍了咖啡因补充剂，包括透露了一些我不知道存在的补充剂，这对我来说并不常见。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, I win.

史黛西·西姆斯：是的，我赢了。

Andrew Huberman: And many wins.

Andrew Huberman：还有很多胜利。

Many, many wins.

很多很多胜利。

Thanks to you.

谢谢你。

And on and on.

不断地。

So just such a rich data set here, presented with such clarity and in an actionable way.

这里有如此丰富的数据集，以如此清晰且可操作的方式呈现。

On behalf of myself and everyone listening and watching, I just want to say thank you.

我谨代表我自己以及所有收听和观看的人说声谢谢。

I know you've come a very long way from the other side of the equator, not just to see us, but given that your time is so precious that you've come to visit us and share with us your knowledge, I just want to say a really deep, heartfelt thank you.

我知道您从赤道的另一边千里迢迢而来，不仅仅是为了来看我们，而且考虑到您的时间是如此宝贵，以至于您来拜访我们并与我们分享您的知识，我只想对您说声深深的、衷心的感谢。

Stacy Sims: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Stacy Sims：是的，谢谢你邀请我。

It's been fun.

这很有趣。

Andrew Huberman: And we'll have to have you back again.

Andrew Huberman：我们必须让你再次回来。

Maybe we'll come to New Zealand.

也许我们会来新西兰。

Stacy Sims: You should come down.

史黛西·西姆斯：你应该下来。

Definitely.

确实。

Andrew Huberman: Thank you.

安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢。

Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Stacy Sims.

感谢您参加今天与 Stacy Sims 博士的讨论。

To learn more about her work, please see the links in our show note captions.

要了解有关她的作品的更多信息，请参阅我们的演出注释标题中的链接。

If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.

如果您正在学习或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。

Please also subscribe to the podcast on both Spotify and Apple.

另请在 Spotify 和 Apple 上订阅该播客。

That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.

这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。

And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.

在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。

Please also check out the sponsors that I mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.

另请查看我在今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。

That's the best way to support this podcast.

这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。

If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast, or topics or guests you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.

如果您对我有疑问或对播客有意见，或者您希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑的主题或嘉宾，请将这些内容放入 YouTube 的评论部分。

I do read all the comments.

我确实阅读了所有评论。

For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.

对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。

It's my very first book.

这是我的第一本书。

It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience.

它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这本书是我花了五年多的时间编写的，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验。

And it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation.

它涵盖了从睡眠到锻炼再到压力控制的各个方面的协议，以及与注意力和动机相关的协议。

And of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.

当然，我还为所包含的协议提供了科学依据。

The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.

该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。

There you can find links to various vendors.

在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。

You can pick the one that you like best.

您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。

Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body."

同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。

If you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all social media channels.

如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体渠道上的 hubermanlab。

So that's Instagram, X, formally known as Twitter, Threads, LinkedIn, and Facebook.

这就是 Instagram、X，正式名称为 Twitter、Threads、LinkedIn 和 Facebook。

And on all those platforms I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlap with the contents of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the contents of the Huberman Lab podcast.

在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容不同。

Again, that's hubermanlab on all social media channels.

同样，这是所有社交媒体渠道上的 hubermanlab。

If you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network newsletter, our Neural Network newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as protocols in the form of brief PDFs of one to three pages where I spell out the specific dos and, in some cases, do nots, but mostly dos related to things like how to optimize your sleep, how to regulate your dopamine levels.

如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，我们的神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及一到三页的简短 PDF 形式的协议，我在其中详细说明了具体的注意事项，在某些情况下，不应该注意的事项，但主要与如何优化睡眠、如何调节多巴胺水平等事项相关。

There's a protocol for neuroplasticity and learning, as well as protocols for fitness, which we call the foundational fitness protocol includes everything — sets, reps, cardiovascular training.

有神经可塑性和学习的协议，以及健身的协议，我们称之为基础健身协议，包括一切——组数、次数、心血管训练。

Again, all available completely zero cost.

再次强调，所有这些都是完全零成本的。

You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu tab, scroll down to newsletter, and provide us your email.

您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到菜单选项卡，向下滚动到时事通讯，然后向我们提供您的电子邮件。

But I should point out we do not share your email with anybody.

但我应该指出，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。

Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Stacy Sims.

再次感谢您参加今天与 Stacy Sims 博士的讨论。

And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.

最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。