Dr. Martha Beck: Access Your Best Self With Mind-Body Practices, Belief Testing & Imagination
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Dr. Martha Beck.
今天我的客人是玛莎·贝克博士。
Dr. Martha Beck did her undergraduate, master's, and PhD training at Harvard University.
玛莎·贝克博士在哈佛大学完成了本科、硕士和博士学位培训。
She is also considered one of the foremost experts in the personal development field, having authored many best-selling books, including her upcoming book, "Beyond Anxiety: Curiosity, Creativity, and Finding Your Life's Purpose." I must say that today's discussion is a truly special one.
她也被认为是个人发展领域最重要的专家之一，撰写了许多畅销书，包括她即将出版的新书《超越焦虑：好奇心、创造力和寻找人生目标》。我必须说，今天的讨论非常特别。
I've long benefited from Martha's teachings, and I assure you that during today's episode, you will benefit from Martha's teachings.
我长期以来一直受益于玛莎的教诲，我向您保证，在今天的节目中，您将从玛莎的教诲中受益。
She describes and we explore practices in real-time that will allow you to truly understand what is most important to you and what you ought to spend your time pursuing.
她描述并我们实时探索实践，让您真正了解什么对您来说最重要，以及您应该花时间追求什么。
You will hear a rich discussion about how to frame the thoughts and the emotions around any topic, including pain points in life, as well as your goals and the things that you are in pursuit of.
您将听到关于如何围绕任何主题构建思想和情感的丰富讨论，包括生活中的痛点，以及您的目标和追求的事物。
You will also learn how to figure out exactly what is most essential to you, and indeed, how to explore what Dr. Martha Beck calls your essential self, those deep-rooted desires that are unique to you and your history and what will make your life most fulfilling.
你还将学习如何准确地弄清楚什么对你来说是最重要的，事实上，如何探索玛莎·贝克博士所说的你的本质自我，那些对你和你的历史来说是独一无二的根深蒂固的渴望，以及什么会让你的生活最充实。
By the end of today's episode, you will be armed with new intellectual and practical knowledge, and you will be able to adopt the best possible stance for you as you navigate forward in your life.
在今天的节目结束时，您将掌握新的智力和实践知识，并且在您的生活中前进时，您将能够采取最适合您的立场。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
Our first sponsor is BetterHelp.
我们的第一个赞助商是 BetterHelp。
BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online.
BetterHelp 提供由持证治疗师完全在线进行的专业治疗。
Now, I've been doing weekly therapy for well over 30 years.
现在，我每周进行一次治疗已经有 30 多年了。
Initially, I didn't have a choice.
最初，我别无选择。
It was a condition of being allowed to stay in high school.
这是被允许留在高中的一个条件。
But pretty soon I realized that doing regular therapy is extremely important to our overall health.
但很快我就意识到定期治疗对我们的整体健康极其重要。
There are essentially three things that go into great therapy.
伟大的治疗本质上包含三件事。
First of all, you need to have great rapport with the therapist, so you need to be comfortable with that person.
首先，您需要与治疗师保持良好的关系，因此您需要与那个人感到舒服。
You need to be able to trust them and talk to them about all the issues that are relevant to you.
您需要能够信任他们并与他们讨论与您相关的所有问题。
Second, and this is what people normally think of when they think of a great therapist, that therapist needs to provide you support in the form of emotional support or directed guidance.
其次，这是人们在想到优秀的治疗师时通常会想到的，治疗师需要以情感支持或定向指导的形式为您提供支持。
And third, excellent therapy has to provide very useful insights, insights that you can apply to be better, not just in your emotional life, in your relationship life, but also your relationship to yourself.
第三，优秀的治疗必须提供非常有用的见解，你可以运用这些见解来变得更好，不仅在你的情感生活中，在你的关系生活中，而且在你与自己的关系中。
BetterHelp makes it extremely easy to find an excellent therapist for you, one with whom you resonate with, have excellent rapport with, and that can give you those three essential benefits of therapy.
BetterHelp 让您可以非常轻松地找到一位优秀的治疗师，一位与您产生共鸣、关系融洽的人，并且可以为您带来治疗的三个基本好处。
If you'd like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month.
如果您想尝试 BetterHelp，请访问 betterhelp.com/huberman，第一个月可享受 10% 的折扣。
Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman.
再说一次，这是 betterhelp.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Helix Sleep.
今天的节目也是由 Helix Sleep 为我们带来的。
Helix Sleep makes mattresses and pillows that are customized to your unique sleep needs.
Helix Sleep 生产根据您独特的睡眠需求定制的床垫和枕头。
I've spoken many times before on this and other podcasts about the fact that getting a great night's sleep is the foundation of mental health, physical health, and performance.
我之前曾多次在这个播客和其他播客中谈到这样一个事实：睡个好觉是心理健康、身体健康和表现的基础。
Now, the mattress we sleep on makes an enormous difference in terms of the quality of sleep that we get each night.
现在，我们睡觉的床垫对我们每晚的睡眠质量有着巨大的影响。
We need a mattress that is matched to our unique sleep needs, one that is neither too soft nor too hard for you, one that breathes well and that won't be too warm or too cold for you.
我们需要一款符合我们独特睡眠需求的床垫，一张对您来说既不太软也不太硬、透气良好、不会太热或太冷的床垫。
If you go to the Helix website, you can take a brief two-minute quiz, and it asks you questions such as, "Do you sleep on your back, your side, or your stomach?
如果你访问Helix网站，你可以做一个两分钟的简短测验，它会问你一些问题，比如“你睡的是仰卧、侧卧还是俯卧？
Do you tend to run hot or cold during the night?" Things of that sort.
你晚上容易发热还是怕冷？”诸如此类的事情。
Maybe you know the answers to those questions, maybe you don't.
也许您知道这些问题的答案，也许您不知道。
Either way, Helix will match you to the ideal mattress for you.
无论哪种方式，Helix 都会为您匹配理想的床垫。
For me, that turned out to be the Dusk mattress, D-U-S-K.
对我来说，这就是 Dusk 床垫，D-U-S-K。
I've been sleeping on a Dusk mattress for, gosh, now more than four years, and the sleep that I've been getting is absolutely phenomenal.
我一直睡在 Dusk 床垫上，天哪，现在已经四年多了，而且我睡得绝对是惊人的。
If you'd like to try Helix, you can go to helixsleep.com/huberman, take that brief two-minute sleep quiz, and Helix will match you to a mattress that is customized to your unique sleep needs.
如果您想尝试 Helix，可以访问 helixsleep.com/huberman，进行两分钟的简短睡眠测验，Helix 将为您匹配根据您独特的睡眠需求定制的床垫。
Right now, Helix is giving up to 25% off mattresses and two free pillows.
目前，Helix 提供高达 25% 的床垫折扣和两个免费枕头。
Again, that's helixsleep.com/huberman to get 25% off and two free pillows.
再次强调，helixsleep.com/huberman 提供 25% 折扣和两个免费枕头。
Today's episode is also brought to us by LMNT.
今天的节目也是LMNT给我们带来的。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium in the correct ratios, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的比例正确，但没有糖。
Now, proper hydration is critical for the optimal functioning of all the cells in your body, and that's especially true for the neurons, the nerve cells.
现在，适当的水合作用对于体内所有细胞的最佳功能至关重要，对于神经元、神经细胞来说尤其如此。
In fact, we know that even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish both cognitive and physical performance.
事实上，我们知道，即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低认知和身体表现。
So, to make sure that I'm getting proper hydration and electrolytes, I personally dissolve one packet of LMNT in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I first wake up in the morning, and I drink that or sip that across the first half hour of the day or so.
因此，为了确保我获得适当的水分和电解质，当我早上第一次醒来时，我亲自将一包 LMNT 溶解在大约 16 至 32 盎司的水中，然后在当天的前半小时左右喝掉或啜饮。
And then I also make it a point to drink another packet of LMNT dissolved in an equal amount of water, so 16 to 32 ounces, at some other point during the day, and maybe even a third if I'm exercising and/or sweating a lot.
然后，我还会在白天的其他时间喝另一包溶解在等量水中的 LMNT，即 16 至 32 盎司，如果我锻炼和/或出汗很多，甚至可能喝三分之一。
I should mention that LMNT tastes absolutely delicious.
值得一提的是，LMNT 的味道绝对美味。
My favorite flavor is watermelon, although I also confess I like the raspberry flavor, the citrus flavor.
我最喜欢的口味是西瓜，虽然我也承认我喜欢覆盆子味、柑橘味。
Basically, I like all the flavors.
基本上所有的口味我都喜欢。
If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with the purchase of any LMNT drink mix.
如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman，购买任何 LMNT 混合饮料即可领取免费 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。
And now for my discussion with Dr. Martha Beck.
现在我与玛莎·贝克博士进行讨论。
Dr. Martha Beck, welcome.
玛莎·贝克博士，欢迎光临。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, it's so good to be here, Andrew.
哦，很高兴来到这里，安德鲁。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm so excited.
我很兴奋。
I don't know how to convey to the people listening and watching just how excited I am.
我不知道如何向听众和观众表达我的兴奋之情。
I have very few heroes in life.
我一生中很少有英雄。
But you are one of them.
但你是其中之一。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I know.
我知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's true.
这是真的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That does not compute.
那不计算。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's true.
这是真的。
I won't name all of them, but you, the great Oliver Sacks-
我不会说出他们所有人的名字，但你，伟大的奥利弗·萨克斯——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
are among the people that have really influenced me so much-
是那些真正对我影响如此之大的人之一-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in terms of the things I do The ways I try and think, the ways I try to not think-
就我所做的事情而言，我尝试和思考的方式，我尝试不去思考的方式——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
at times.
有时。
And your life story is an amazing one.
你的人生故事非常精彩。
So we have a lot to cover today.
所以今天我们有很多内容要讲。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yay.
耶。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I'm not going to spend any more time talking about why I feel that way, because it's going to just become apparent in our discussion.
所以我不会再花时间谈论为什么我有这种感觉，因为它会在我们的讨论中变得显而易见。
But I do want to say that you have really been ahead of your time.
但我确实想说，你确实走在了时代的前面。
You're triple degreed from Harvard, you have these academic credentials, and yet you were one of the first people to be public-facing about the mind/body connection-
你拥有哈佛大学的三重学位，你拥有这些学术资格，但你是第一批面向公众谈论身心联系的人之一——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in a way that is operationalized, what we sometimes call, in and around this podcast, protocols.
以一种可操作的方式，我们有时在这个播客中和周围称之为协议。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you've offered some practices that have absolutely transformed my life-
你提供的一些实践彻底改变了我的生活-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Thank you
谢谢你
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and other people's lives.
和其他人的生活。
And I gained them through reading your books, and that's not a standard book advertisement, but all of your books have been transformative for me.
我通过阅读你的书获得了这些，这不是标准的书籍广告，但你所有的书对我来说都是变革性的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Aw.
噢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of the exercises that has had a profound effect on my life is the perfect day exercise.
对我的生活产生深远影响的练习之一是完美的日间练习。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
The ideal day.
理想的一天。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And when I first read about it, I thought, "What could this possibly be?" And as I recall, it involved taking a little bit of time, maybe 10 minutes, maybe 30 minutes-
当我第一次读到它时，我想，“这可能是什么？”我记得，这需要一点时间，也许 10 分钟，也许 30 分钟——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and just sitting or lying down, closing one's eyes, and just imagining, with no limitations-
只是坐着或躺着，闭上眼睛，只是想象，没有任何限制——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
one's perfect day.
一个人完美的一天。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And what's so wild about this exercise-
这个练习有什么疯狂之处——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is that several, not all, but several of the things that I imagined in that exercise-
是我在那次练习中想象到的几件事，不是全部，而是几件事——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
have amazingly come to be-
令人惊奇地变成了——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Kind of
有点
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
reality.
现实。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It works.
它有效。
I don't know how or why it works.
我不知道它是如何或为什么起作用的。
I used to have people send me a postcard, this is how long I've been doing this stuff, now it's emails and texts, but I'd say, "Okay, we just did your ideal day.
我曾经让人给我寄一张明信片，这就是我做这件事的时间，现在是电子邮件和短信，但我会说，“好吧，我们刚刚度过了你理想的一天。
You've got it all written down.
你已经把一切都写下来了。
Now send me a notification when that day happens." And I get a lot of notifications.
现在，当那一天到来时，请向我发送通知。”我收到很多通知。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Well, I'm giving you a notification right now.
嗯，我现在就给你一个通知。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because at the end of that exercise, and I ended up doing it several times-
因为在那个练习结束时，我最终做了好几次——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
I do too.
我也是。
I do it all the time
我一直这样做
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Okay.
好的。
That's good to know.
很高兴知道这一点。
I want to know about the frequency there ...
我想知道那里的频率...
was, I'd love to sit down and talk to Martha Beck, what I wouldn't do.
是，我很想坐下来和玛莎·贝克谈谈，但我不会这么做。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Ah.
啊。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I'm in a pinch me moment right now.
所以我现在正处于紧要关头。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
This is so great.
这太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's wild.
它很狂野。
It's like reality weaving back on itself.
这就像现实自行编织回来。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And I've listened to your podcast, and I thought, "That guy's really cool," and here I am.
我听了你的播客，我想，“那家伙真的很酷，”我就在这里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, thank you.
哦，谢谢。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
This is amazing.
这太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm moved by that.
我对此很感动。
So let's just talk about this exercise for a second.
让我们暂时讨论一下这个练习。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Cool.
酷。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Clearly, we could come up with scientific explanations for-
显然，我们可以给出科学的解释——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
why it would work.
为什么它会起作用。
The brain is a predictive machine.
大脑是一台预测机器。
Once it understands that something might be possible, maybe it looks for avenues for that-
一旦它明白某事是可能的，也许它就会寻找途径——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Exactly
正是如此
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
unconsciously.
不知不觉中。
We could come up with a whole narrative around that.
我们可以围绕这个提出一个完整的叙述。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But just for sake of those listening, what is this exercise?
但为了听者的缘故，这个练习是什么？
How would you suggest somebody try it?
你会如何建议别人尝试一下？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So the first thing is that you don't make up something.
所以第一件事就是你不要编造一些东西。
People would always tell me they'd make up a day where they woke up in a white room with white sheets and windows with white curtains, and then they would put on white clothes and drift around.
人们总是告诉我，他们会编造一天，在一间白色的房间里醒来，房间里有白色的床单，窗户上挂着白色的窗帘，然后他们会穿上白色的衣服，四处飘荡。
And I realized finally that these people were just tired.
我终于意识到这些人只是累了。
They could not project anything but a sort of blankness that I finally realized meant that they'd just pushed themselves too hard.
他们只能表现出一种茫然，我最终意识到，这意味着他们把自己逼得太紧了。
So I stopped doing this with people until they were well-rested.
所以我不再对人们这样做，直到他们休息好为止。
Then you don't make it up, you see it happen.
然后你就不会弥补，你会看到它发生。
That's the key thing.
这是关键。
You allow it into your mind, not as though you're reaching with your imagination, just as though it emerges.
你允许它进入你的头脑，而不是好像你在发挥你的想象力，就好像它出现了一样。
So I talk people through it.
所以我和人们谈论它。
The first thing is you wake up in the morning, you're perfectly refreshed by a beautiful sleep.
早上醒来的第一件事是，美美的睡眠让您神清气爽。
In your imagination, don't open your eyes, but listen.
在你的想象中，不要睁开眼睛，而是倾听。
What do you hear?
你听到什么？
So you don't make it up.
所以你不去弥补。
You listen for it.
你听听看。
What do you hear?
你听到什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For me, the first thing I hear is just feeling how comfortable my body is on the bed.
对我来说，我听到的第一件事就是感觉我的身体在床上有多舒服。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Oh.
哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Something that I don't do enough.
有件事我做得还不够。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
What about the sound of someone or someone's breathing?
某人或某人的呼吸声怎么样？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah, someone next to me breathing, and they're still asleep.
是的，我旁边有人呼吸，他们还在睡觉。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Ah, lovely.
啊，可爱的。
Is there a dog breathing on the foot of the bed?
床脚有狗在呼吸吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, if it was like my bulldog, Costello- ...
好吧，如果它像我的斗牛犬科斯特洛一样——
that's snoring.
那是打鼾。
I'm going to get another dog soon, so I would like a dog that breathes- ...
我很快就会再养一只狗，所以我想要一只会呼吸的狗……
with less snoring than Costello.
打鼾比科斯特洛少。
Although, I must say, I miss his-
虽然，我必须说，我想念他——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Bulldogs
斗牛犬
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
his incredibly deep snores.
他的鼾声深得令人难以置信。
The early versions of this podcast, the early episodes, we kept him in the room snoring.
这个播客的早期版本，早期剧集，我们让他在房间里打鼾。
And by the way, the watering up of my eyes, these are truly tears of joy.
顺便说一句，我的眼睛湿润了，这确实是喜悦的泪水。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Aw.
噢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I said at the beginning of the podcast, I said, "Listen, I have a bulldog.
我在播客开始时说，“听着，我有一只斗牛犬。
He's getting toward the end of his life, so we're going to keep him in the room.
他的生命即将结束，所以我们将把他留在房间里。
And so if when you hear that breathing in the background-
所以如果当你听到背景中的呼吸声时——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Aw
噢
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that snoring, let's call it what it is, he's in here.
那个鼾声，就这么说吧，他在这儿。
So sorry, not sorry." So anyway.
所以抱歉，不抱歉。”所以无论如何。
So yeah.
所以是的。
So there's some-
所以有一些——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
bulldog breathing.
斗牛犬的呼吸。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You can have as many dogs in the room as you want.
您可以在房间里养任意数量的狗。
Just listen, and maybe you hear birds outside, maybe you hear the ocean, maybe you hear wind.
只要听，也许您听到外面的鸟声，也许您听到海洋的声音，也许您听到风的声音。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Maybe you hear people talking or the noise of traffic.
也许您听到人们说话或交通噪音。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Just listen for a minute until you're pretty sure you've heard everything there is to hear.
只需听一分钟，直到您确信您已经听到了所有要听到的内容。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I like the sound of kids playing.
是的，我喜欢孩子们玩耍的声音。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Ah, sweet.
啊，亲爱的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Okay.
好的。
So smell the air.
所以闻空气的味道。
What's it like?
它是什么样的？
How humid is it?
有多潮湿？
What's the temperature?
温度是多少？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm a Californian at heart.
我本质上是加州人。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I like it in the 70s and 80s.
我喜欢70年代和80年代的风格。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Perfect.
完美。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not too humid.
不太潮湿。
And I don't It's weird that a don't jumps in, but there's something about the sound of airplanes flying over-
我不跳进来，这很奇怪，但是飞机飞过的声音有点——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Interesting
有趣
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that always depresses me.
这总是让我感到沮丧。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It must be some paired association from-
它一定是某种配对关联——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Something like that
类似的东西
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
some time, like I don't like that.
有时候，就像我不喜欢那样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No planes.
没有飞机。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So birds, bird chirping.
所以鸟儿，鸟儿叽叽喳喳。
Who doesn't like birds chirping?
谁不喜欢鸟儿的鸣叫？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And by the way, for our listeners, this is not one magical day that you'll never live again.
顺便说一句，对于我们的听众来说，这不是一个你永远不会再活下去的神奇日子。
This is a typical day, but your life is now perfect.
这是典型的一天，但你的生活现在很完美。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So it's an ordinary day-
所以这是一个平凡的一天——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
but in your perfect life.
但在你完美的生活中。
So we're, put it out three years, five years, whatever makes it possible for you to allow that your ideal life could form in that time.
所以我们把它定为三年、五年，只要你有可能，你的理想生活就可以在那时形成。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You'll find, as you do it many times, the time necessary for it to happen becomes much shorter.
你会发现，当你这样做很多次时，它发生所需的时间就会变得更短。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Anyway, so you get up, look around, you sit up in the bed, look around.
不管怎样，所以你站起来，环顾四周，你在床上坐起来，环顾四周。
Who's next to you?
谁在你旁边？
What does the dog look like?
狗长什么样子？
What does the room look like?
房间是什么样子的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah, it's my partner next to me.
是的，就是我旁边的伙伴。
My dog is...
我的狗是...
I told myself I wasn't going to get another bulldog.
我告诉自己我不会再养一只斗牛犬了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, you are.
哦，你是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I think I'm going to get another bulldog.
但我想我会再养一只斗牛犬。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You are.
你是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're the best.
他们是最好的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're like the essence of efficiency of metabolism, meaning they do as little as possible.
它们就像新陈代谢效率的本质，意味着它们做得尽可能少。
And they experience as much joy as possible.
他们体验到尽可能多的快乐。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, that's perfect.
哦，那太完美了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're hedonists when it really comes down to it.
归根结底，他们是享乐主义者。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, you need a wise hedonist-
哦，你需要一个明智的享乐主义者——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
in your life.
在你的生活中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
And they are capable of protecting if they need to, but I honestly don't care about that.
如果需要的话，他们有能力提供保护，但老实说我并不关心这一点。
All that stuff, like my bulldogs, I don't care about any of that.
所有这些东西，比如我的斗牛犬，我一点也不关心。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Something tells me you could protect yourself pretty well.
有件事告诉我你可以很好地保护自己。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I'm good there.
是的，我在那里很好。
So-
所以——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Look around the room.
环视房间。
What color are the walls?
墙壁是什么颜色的？
What pictures are hanging there, if any?
那里挂着什么照片（如果有的话）？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I'm a Wyeth fan-
我是惠氏的粉丝
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Me too
我也是
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Andrew Wyeth fan.
安德鲁·怀斯的粉丝。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Which one?
哪一个？
Andrew or Anzy?
安德鲁还是安齐？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, recently I saw a caption, I don't know if this is true because it was an Instagram post, that the woman in the field-
嗯，最近我看到一个标题，我不知道这是不是真的，因为这是一个Instagram帖子，现场的那个女人——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh
噢
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
image.
图像。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Christina's World
克里斯蒂娜的世界
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That-
那——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
yeah.
是的。
I didn't know the name of it, thank you.
我不知道它的名字，谢谢。
That this was a neighbor of theirs that had a-
这是他们的邻居，有一个——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
degenerative-
退化-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
neural condition.
神经状况。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And rather than use a wheelchair of sorts, she insisted on crawling everywhere.
她并没有使用某种轮椅，而是坚持爬行去任何地方。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so that image is actually of her-
所以那张照片实际上是她的——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
crawling out into the field, happily, to enjoy the field.
高兴地爬到田野里，享受田野的乐趣。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I know.
我知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because my impression of the painting before was that somehow because she's seated up there, it looks like, in my mind I projected onto it that there's some desperation there or something to get back to the house.
因为我之前对这幅画的印象是，不知怎的，因为她坐在那儿，看起来，在我的脑海里，我投射到它上面，有一些绝望，或者有什么东西要回到房子里。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But that's not it at all.
但事实并非如此。
Turns out this is a woman who preferred to move with her own agency-
原来这是一个更愿意跟着自己的经纪公司搬家的女人——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Amazing
太棒了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
even if it meant crawling to enjoy nature.
即使这意味着爬行来享受大自然。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And-
还有——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It's a magnificent painting
这是一幅壮丽的画作
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it's a magnificent painting.
这是一幅壮丽的画。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So it's on the wall there?
那么它就在那儿的墙上吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
Maybe not the original, although that would be awesome.
也许不是原版，尽管那会很棒。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Why not?
为什么不呢？
It's your perfect life.
这就是你的完美生活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Then I'm waking up in the Met.
然后我在大都会博物馆醒来。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And also, just notice that you're creating a theme, which is, the theme is, "I will go out as myself and I will reach and strive for things, and I'm not here to be helped.
另外，请注意，您正在创建一个主题，即主题是：“我将像我自己一样走出去，我将达到目标并为之奋斗，我来这里不是为了寻求帮助。
I'm here to do hard things and to do them for the joy of it." So that's what that painting is.
我来这里是为了做困难的事情，并为了其中的乐趣而做。”所以这就是那幅画。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Strong symbol of who you are.
你是谁的强烈象征。
So, get out of the bed and your partner's still sleeping, the dog's still sleeping.
所以，从床上起来，你的伴侣还在睡觉，狗也在睡觉。
Go look out the window.
去看看窗外吧。
Where are you?
你在哪里？
And you can be anywhere.
而且你可以在任何地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm a mountains guy.
我是山里人。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As much as I love California, I've realized that...
尽管我很喜欢加州，但我意识到......
I just went out to Boulder, Colorado for the first time for a week-
我刚刚第一次去科罗拉多州博尔德呆了一个星期-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
just by myself, and I fell in love with it.
就我自己而言，我爱上了它。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I'm in the mountains.
所以我在山里。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Colorado.
科罗拉多州。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Feels right to me.
我感觉很对。
And there's water.
还有水。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Lake or river?
湖还是河？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A river.
一条河。
They've got great rivers there.
他们那里有伟大的河流。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah, they do.
是的，他们确实这么做了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or the little streams.
或者小溪。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I like the little streams that they have there, because the rivers are so loud.
我喜欢那里的小溪，因为河水很大。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That's true.
确实如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
The rivers are really loud when they get going.
河水流动的时候真的很吵。
Yeah.
是的。
And, yeah.
而且，是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So are you looking at a small town, a city, or do you just live out in the mountains by yourself?
那么您是在寻找小镇、城市，还是独自住在山里？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Definitely small town.
绝对是小镇。
I can't be too isolated.
我不能太孤立。
If I'm going to be in a city, I'm going to be in Manhattan.
如果我要去一个城市，我会去曼哈顿。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like it's all or none.
就好像全有或全无。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if I'm going to be in nature, I want to be in nature.
所以，如果我要融入大自然，我就想融入大自然。
So a small town.
所以是一个小镇。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Beautiful.
美丽。
So just look around, smell the pine and aspen air, and then you go into your perfect bathroom.
因此，只需环顾四周，闻闻松树和白杨的空气，然后就可以进入完美的浴室。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And it's beautiful.
而且它很漂亮。
You could go through a lot of description if you wanted to, but I'm going to rush through that to get to-
如果你愿意的话，你可以查看很多描述，但我会匆忙地完成这些描述，以便-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
the interesting parts.
有趣的部分。
So you take a look at yourself in the mirror.
所以你照照镜子看看自己。
Your body is absolutely perfect.
你的身体绝对完美。
Of course, in your case, that's not an aspirational thing.
当然，就您而言，这不是一个理想的事情。
You're already there.
你已经在那里了。
But make it even better.
但让它变得更好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
For me, that means being clear-eyed.
对我来说，这意味着头脑清醒。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
People who listen to this podcast know that I came up through neuroscience studying a number of things, but the visual system, and these two little bits in the front of our skull are pieces of our brain.
听这个播客的人都知道我是通过神经科学研究了很多东西，但视觉系统和我们头骨前面的这两个小部分是我们大脑的一部分。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're the only pieces of our brain outside of our skull, and yes, they may be the windows to the soul if people want to refer to them that way, but to me, just feeling like my eyes are clear.
它们是我们大脑在头骨之外的唯一部分，是的，如果人们想这样称呼它们，它们可能是灵魂的窗户，但对我来说，只是感觉我的眼睛是清澈的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there's a certain tone or something that I'm like, "Okay, like I'm all there."
我有一种特定的语气或感觉，“好吧，就像我都在那里一样。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, there's a real clarity.
哦，这确实很清晰。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I've seen it.
我见过。
I don't know if you've worked with people who are dying or who are really ill.
我不知道你是否曾与濒临死亡或重病的人一起工作过。
Sometimes you'll see a shift in the transparency of their eyes.
有时您会看到他们眼睛的透明度发生变化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
There actually seems to be a radiance-
似乎真的有一种光芒——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
coming from the eyes or gathered around the eyes.
来自眼睛或聚集在眼睛周围。
That's what I'm sort of thinking-
这就是我的想法——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
as you talk.
当你说话时。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, and I think it's the Buddhists that talked about, it's someone who's at the level of, their eyes are at the level of their skin.
是的，我认为这是佛教徒所谈论的，他们的眼睛与皮肤处于同一水平。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Huh.
呵呵。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, like right there, as opposed to sunken back into their eyes.
所以，就像就在那里一样，而不是沉回到他们的眼睛里。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then of course, some people are like really forward leaning.
当然，有些人真的很前倾。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That's so interesting.
那太有趣了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But this whole, and- I also happen to work on the intersection between the visual system and the autonomic system.
但这整个，而且-我也碰巧研究视觉系统和自主系统之间的交叉点。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, stress or-
所以，压力或者-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
calm, and I think what that's referring to, and I'm speculating here, is where we are alert but calm.
冷静，我认为这指的是我们保持警惕但冷静的地方，我在这里推测。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we're present, alert, but calm.
所以我们在场，警觉但冷静。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And of course, that controls pupil size, and all of this stuff, I do believe has been understood in other traditions, in ancient traditions-
当然，它控制着瞳孔的大小，所有这些东西，我相信在其他传统中，在古代传统中已经被理解了——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It has
它有
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
through a kind of unconscious genius, where they're recognizing all the symbols integrated of clarity of the eyes-
通过一种无意识的天才，他们识别出所有由眼睛的清晰度整合而成的符号——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and level of the skin, and of course, we can measure the stuff in the lab, but that's just isolating variables.
和皮肤的水平，当然，我们可以在实验室中测量这些东西，但这只是隔离变量。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So for me, it's looking in the mirror and being like, "Okay, my eyes are clear."
所以对我来说，就是看着镜子，然后说：“好吧，我的眼睛很清澈。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
This is so interesting because my friend Liz Gilbert of "Eat Pray Love" fame, she wrote something before she was famous where she dressed as a man for a week and walked around, and she's tall and broad-shouldered and has a great chin, so she could look male.
这很有趣，因为我的朋友莉兹·吉尔伯特因《美食·祈祷·爱情》而出名，她在成名之前写过一些东西，她女扮男装一周，四处走动，而且她身材高大，肩膀宽阔，下巴很大，所以她看起来很男性。
And she got herself all dressed up male, and they faked a beard and everything, and then she had her friends come, and a male friend said to her, "No, Liz, pull yourself back six inches away from your own eyes." And she did it, and then he said, "Now you're looking like a man."
她把自己打扮成男性，他们假装了胡须什么的，然后她让她的朋友来了，一个男性朋友对她说，“不，莉兹，把你自己拉到离你自己的眼睛六英寸的地方。”她做到了，然后他说：“现在你看起来像个男人了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And she walked around that way, and she said it was the loneliest, saddest week she's ever experienced.
她就这样走来走去，她说这是她经历过的最孤独、最悲伤的一周。
Like yeah, people gave her more respect in certain ways, but she said, "When they told me to back away from my own eyes, it was like my soul went dim."
是的，人们在某些方面给予了她更多的尊重，但她说，“当他们告诉我远离自己的眼睛时，我的灵魂就变得黯淡了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And that's really, really interesting that you would say that exact distance even.
这真的非常非常有趣，你甚至可以说是确切的距离。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like a retraction of our humanness.
这就像我们人性的缩回。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That's fascinating.
这很有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, I don't ever recall as a kid, my dad or my mom or anyone telling me where to place my vision.
我的意思是，我不记得小时候，我的爸爸、妈妈或任何人告诉我该把视野放在哪里。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No, no, no. It's not articulated.
不，不，不。它没有明确表达。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm probably guilty of being more expressive, emotional, effusive than-
我可能会因为自己表现得更富有表现力、更情绪化、更热情而感到内疚——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
certainly the traditional male stereotype.
当然是传统的男性刻板印象。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Like, if I love something, people are going to hear about it.
就像，如果我喜欢某件事，人们就会听到它。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm not shy about the fact that thinking about Costello or my graduate advisor or-
我并不羞于想到科斯特洛或我的研究生导师或-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
people I love, I'll well up, and I'm okay with that.
我爱的人，我会振作起来，我对此很满意。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I think, well, to flip that one around, do you think that that's a real thing, that-
但我想，好吧，翻转一下，你认为那是真的吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I have no idea.
我不知道。
You have a-
你有一个-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
through cultural conditioning, that men and women tend to be either more, I don't know, there's no language for this.
通过文化条件，男人和女人往往要么更多，我不知道，没有语言可以说明这一点。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Well, I have an N of two, you and Liz Gilbert.
好吧，我有两个人中的 N，你和莉兹·吉尔伯特。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
All right.
好的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
But I think it's very interesting that you said that, that you're forward in your eyes, and the idea that the eyes are the parts of our brains that are showing.
但我认为你所说的很有趣，你的眼睛是向前的，并且眼睛是我们大脑中正在显示的部分。
It's fascinating that she had that experience, too.
令人着迷的是，她也有这样的经历。
So I would love to, I'll be asking people from now on if you're designated male, identified male, do you feel you have to pull your sort of vitality back from the world?
所以我很乐意，从现在开始我会问人们，如果你被指定为男性，被认定为男性，你是否觉得你必须从世界上收回你的活力？
And I suspect it's true.
我怀疑这是真的。
I suspect it's true just from interacting with people.
仅从与人的互动来看，我就怀疑这是真的。
And ask women if they-- I think it's more vulnerable to be right on the surface of your life, and in the surface of your eyes, but it's also much more, there's a sensuousness to the world when you're fully present that I know I had to shut down, like when I was in the Ivy League, I had to pull myself back and sink down, and that's a typically male environment.
问问女性是否——我认为在你的生活表面、在你眼睛的表面上更容易受到伤害，但也更重要的是，当你完全在场时，世界会有一种感性，我知道我必须关闭，就像我在常春藤盟校时一样，我必须把自己拉回来，沉沦下去，这是一个典型的男性环境。
I think it's about materialism and conquest and oppositional thinking as much as gender.
我认为这与唯物主义、征服和对立思维以及性别有关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's very tactical.
这是非常有战术性的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
It's a tactical-
这是一个战术——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like taking what's out there and holding it in.
这就像把外面的东西拿出来并保留在里面。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I actually can do it.
我其实可以做到。
I know how to do this.
我知道该怎么做。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You just did it.
你刚刚做到了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I know how to do this.
是的，我知道该怎么做。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It's like visible.
就好像看得见一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
And I probably just learned how to do it, right?
我可能刚刚学会了怎么做，对吧？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow.
哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I'm comfortable in a lot of different environments.
因为我在很多不同的环境中都很舒服。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, there are certainly environments I don't want to find myself in again, or in the future for the first time, but, yeah, I'm very aware of that distinct change in internal state that accompanies that, but-
我的意思是，肯定有一些环境我不想再次陷入，或者在未来第一次，但是，是的，我非常清楚随之而来的内部状态的明显变化，但是-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That was so interesting that you just did that.
那太有趣了，你就这么做了。
Wow.
哇。
Okay.
好的。
The problem I'm having now is that I have, and I quote, "An interest-based attention system."
我现在遇到的问题是，我有一个“基于兴趣的注意力系统”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
ADHD, which means I pay attention to things that interest me, which means that I literally follow squirrels away from business meetings.
ADHD，这意味着我会关注我感兴趣的事情，这意味着我真的会跟着松鼠远离商务会议。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I have paper and pen here, and it's okay-
但我这里有纸和笔，没关系-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Okay.
好的。
So we're back to your ideal day
所以我们回到了你理想的一天
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because the art of podcasting-
因为播客的艺术——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in my opinion, is that we can spin a couple of different plates and return to them.
在我看来，我们可以旋转几个不同的盘子并返回它们。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I love it.
我喜欢它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because it's like conversation, otherwise we might as well be on-
因为这就像谈话，否则我们还不如-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I love it
我喜欢它
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a highly produced, traditional media show, and that's not what this is.
一个制作精良的传统媒体节目，但事实并非如此。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Pshaw, I say.
噗，我说。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, we're back.
所以，我们回来了。
So I look in the mirror, and I see-
所以我照镜子，我看到——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
You are present, man
你在场，伙计
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I'm clear.
我很清楚。
I'm clear and present.
我很清楚并且在场。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Clear.
清楚。
Alert.
警报。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
And of course, for those listening, you should all be doing this exercise for you, right?
当然，对于那些倾听的人来说，你们都应该为自己做这个练习，对吧？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And now you go to your closet, and you're going to get dressed.
现在你去你的衣柜，你要穿衣服了。
Open your closet, which is the closet of clothing you have in your ideal life, and just look at the different outfits you have, how many kinds of shoes are there?
打开你的衣柜，这是你理想生活中拥有的衣服的衣柜，看看你拥有的不同服装，有多少种鞋子？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is pretty funny because I definitely have my ideal wardrobe, which is very sparse.
这很有趣，因为我绝对有我理想的衣柜，但它非常稀疏。
I've always owned 20 or so of these button-down black shirts-
我一直拥有 20 件左右这种系扣黑色衬衫 -
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I love it
我喜欢它
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for work purposes.
出于工作目的。
I like T-shirts that are super soft.
我喜欢超柔软的 T 恤。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And because I have a short torso and long arms, they have to fit right, and so I find the ones that fit right.
因为我的躯干较短，手臂较长，所以它们必须合适，所以我找到了合适的。
It's a nightmare trying to get them, but once I get them, I adore them- ...
试图得到它们是一场噩梦，但一旦我得到它们，我就喜欢它们——......
because I always own two belts or so.
因为我总是拥有两条左右的腰带。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One watch.
一只手表。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Black jeans.
黑色牛仔裤。
The shorts I like, I get teased for wearing mailman shorts, but they're actually- ...
我喜欢的短裤，我因为穿邮递员短裤而被嘲笑，但实际上它们是——......
the Costco purchased mail, or Kmart purchased male person shorts.
Costco购买了邮件，或者Kmart购买了男性短裤。
They fit best for me.
它们最适合我。
And And I've always worn Adidas, so-
而且我一直穿阿迪达斯，所以-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I'm happy there.
我在那里很高兴。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No dress shoes?
没有正装鞋吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
I own a pair of proper leather shoes.
我有一双合适的皮鞋。
I have a suit.
我有一套西装。
I actually own a tuxedo.
我实际上拥有一件燕尾服。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, my.
哦，我的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I own those things, and I like my closet.
我拥有这些东西，而且我喜欢我的衣柜。
I've always liked it.
我一直很喜欢它。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It feels very safe in there.
在那里感觉非常安全。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I like it.
我喜欢它。
And then, I've always kept a couple photographs of people that I love in my closet.
然后，我总是在衣柜里放几张我爱的人的照片。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, sweet.
哦，亲爱的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So whose photographs are there?
那么那里有谁的照片呢？
Do you see any photographs you don't recognize at this moment?
您此时是否看到任何您不认识的照片？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's my sister.
这是我姐姐。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's my grandfather, and then I think that's it.
这是我的祖父，然后我想就是这样了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah, don't think about just-
是的，别想只是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Apologies to my parents.
向我的父母道歉。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Apologies to my parents.
向我的父母道歉。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Everybody else.
其他人。
Losers.
失败者。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Apologies to my parents and anyone else.
向我的父母和其他人道歉。
Just forgive me.
请原谅我。
Okay.
好的。
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Okay, so then you go through the whole day, and I can spend at least an hour going through this with someone.
好吧，那么你就花一整天的时间，我可以花至少一个小时和某人一起经历这件事。
And the important thing is that you do something I call the three Ns.
重要的是你要做一些我称之为“3N”的事情。
You notice what comes into the field of your imagination, but you don't try too hard to see it specifically, and then as you go through, you sort of narrow down what it might be.
你会注意到进入你想象范围的事物，但你不会太努力去具体地观察它，然后当你经历时，你会缩小它可能是什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And if the name of that thing comes up, you can then name it.
如果那个东西的名字出现，你就可以命名它。
But for example, in one of my ideal days, I was writing short pieces of writing, then I was interacting with people very regularly about it, and I couldn't even imagine what kind of job that was.
但例如，在我理想的日子之一，我正在写一些短文，然后我经常与人们互动，我什至无法想象那是一份什么样的工作。
And then, an editor in Manhattan knocked over a manuscript I'd written, and she was the editor of a women's magazine, and she called me and asked me to be a columnist.
然后，曼哈顿的一位编辑打翻了我写的一篇手稿，她是一家女性杂志的编辑，她打电话给我，让我做专栏作家。
And I was like, "All right." I was a magazine columnist for 20 years, and it was exactly what was in the ideal day, but I had not named it.
我当时想，“好吧。”我做了20年的杂志专栏作家，这正是理想的日子，但我没有说出它的名字。
I didn't know that you could live in Phoenix and be a columnist for New York magazines.
我不知道你可以住在凤凰城并成为纽约杂志的专栏作家。
So notice what you're doing.
所以注意你在做什么。
You put on your very comfy T-shirt, very cool black jeans, your one watch, your belt, your Adidas, and you go do something really fun with people you really love in a place you really enjoy.
你穿上非常舒适的T恤、非常酷的黑色牛仔裤、你的一只手表、你的腰带、你的阿迪达斯，然后你和你真正爱的人在你真正喜欢的地方做一些真正有趣的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, the work part of my life, quote, unquote, work is reading and teaching and talking about stuff on the internet, which is podcasting.
嗯，我生活中工作的一部分，引用，不引用，工作是阅读、教学和谈论互联网上的东西，这就是播客。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But what I got a flash of is I'd want to work on my fish tanks with my kids.
但我突然想到我想和我的孩子们一起修理我的鱼缸。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
See, now I skipped a thing.
看，现在我跳过了一件事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You're supposed to go down to breakfast and see if you've got a family.
你应该去吃早餐，看看你是否有家人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do.
我愿意。
I've always wanted kids.
我一直想要孩子。
Been trying to time that correctly-
一直在尝试正确计时-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wonderful
精彩
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and with the right person.
和对的人。
So yeah, I like tending to my fish tanks.
所以是的，我喜欢照料我的鱼缸。
I have kept fish tanks since I was a kid.
我从小就养鱼缸。
I haven't had one for a few years now, but I'm always setting them up for other people.
我已经好几年没有拥有它们了，但我总是为其他人设置它们。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Ah.
啊。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's kind of interesting.
这有点有趣。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Ooh, interesting.
哦，有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I always go play in real life.
我总是去现实生活中玩。
I go-
我去——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Ooh
噢
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
places I haven't seen before.
我以前没见过的地方。
I'm like-
我就像-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I know
我知道
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
"I'm going to put a fish tank there." I don't know, it's a weird-
“我要在那里放一个鱼缸。”我不知道，这很奇怪——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
My interest-based decision system just went, "Oh, really?
我的基于兴趣的决策系统只是说：“哦，真的吗？
You do it for other people but not yourself?"
你这样做是为了别人，而不是为了自己？”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
I'll show up and I'll be like, "I got it.
我会出现，然后我会说：“我明白了。
Will you let me?" And then I'll set it up, and I love setting up fish tanks.
你会让我吗？”然后我会设置它，我喜欢设置鱼缸。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like the, who knows?
就像这样，谁知道呢？
Yeah, working-
是啊，工作——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So your kids are helping you.
所以你的孩子正在帮助你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, cleaning the fish tanks.
是的，清理鱼缸。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
How many kids are there?
有多少个孩子？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Realistically?
现实吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No. In your imagination.
不，在你的想象中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Two.
二。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You can have 20 if you want.
如果你愿意的话，你可以有20个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Two.
二。
Two.
二。
For some reason, I got obsessed with numbers for a while, but I was thinking like five or something.
出于某种原因，有一段时间我对数字很着迷，但我想的是五个或者其他什么。
No, two.
不，两个。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You never know.
你永远不知道。
It could happen.
这可能会发生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
The important thing about this exercise is you don't get logical about it.
这个练习的重要一点是你无法理解它的逻辑。
You don't think what's manageable and what's probable, and you just see who's there.
你不会考虑什么是可控的、什么是可能的，你只是看到谁在那里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, two feels good.
是的，两个人感觉很好。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
All right.
好吧。
Fair enough.
很公平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Two feels good.
两个感觉都不错
And, yeah, there's so much life in a fish tank.
是的，鱼缸里有这么多的生命。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's the plants, there's the food, there's how the fish are interacting with one another, who's chasing who, who's nibbling- ...
有植物，有食物，还有鱼儿如何相互作用，谁在追谁，谁在啃咬——……
who's hiding, who's dominant, who's being kind of unruly and like- ...
谁在躲藏，谁占主导地位，谁有点不守规矩，就像——......
I must have seen the "Finding Nemo" movie, especially the second one-
我一定看过《海底总动员》电影，尤其是第二部——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Huh
呵呵
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like 12 times.
好像12次。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Fabulous.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like 12 times.
好像是12次。
It's crazy.
太疯狂了。
As an adult.
作为一个成年人。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It's not crazy.
这并不疯狂。
This is wonderful.
这太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So good.
太好了。
I just loved the personalities.
我只是喜欢这些人物。
Any movie where Willem Dafoe is the voice of a fish- ...
任何威廉·达福为鱼配音的电影——...
you're like, "Okay."
你会说：“好吧。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I am in.
我在。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All right, so we tend to the fish tanks, which is-
好吧，我们照看一下鱼缸，那就是——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
great pleasure.
非常高兴。
And then for me, it's we come here and sit down with you and-
然后对我来说，我们来到这里和你坐下来然后-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I'll be back
我会回来的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
hang out with these guys and my team and share what I know to be really cool, useful, like truly useful-
与这些人和我的团队一起出去玩，分享我所知道的非常酷、有用、真正有用的东西——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
practices.
做法。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Fabulous.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like that.
就这样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So you're very close to your ideal day right now.
所以你现在已经非常接近你的理想日子了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
But, and as you said, I don't know the mechanisms that get put in play.
但是，正如您所说，我不知道发挥作用的机制。
Certainly directed attention.
当然是有针对性的关注。
You're now like a guided missile that knows where its target is-
你现在就像一枚知道目标在哪里的导弹——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
or at least what the target looks like.
或者至少是目标的样子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And we all make countless decisions every day, and you can think of it as a lot of little whys branching out, and if you've got this in your mind really clearly, you're going to take the option that leads to it.
我们每天都会做出无数的决定，你可以把它想象成很多小原因，如果你心里非常清楚这一点，你就会做出导致它的选择。
That's what I tell people.
这就是我告诉人们的。
It's logical, directed attention.
这是合乎逻辑的、有针对性的关注。
Except that in many cases, I have to say, a miracle occurs.
但我不得不说，在很多情况下，奇迹都会发生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You know?
你知道吗？
My favorite cartoon is this physics equation with these two physicists, and there are all these symbols on both sides of the board.
我最喜欢的漫画是这两位物理学家的物理方程，棋盘的两边都有这些符号。
In the middle, in brackets, it says, "A miracle occurs."
中间的括号里写着：“奇迹发生了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love it.
我喜欢它。
My dad's a theoretical physicist, so he-
我爸爸是一位理论物理学家，所以他-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, really?
哦，真的吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But he will delight in that.
但他会为此感到高兴。
As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 for more than 10 years now, so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring this podcast.
你们很多人都知道，我服用 AG1 已有 10 多年了，所以我很高兴他们赞助这个播客。
To be clear, I don't take AG1 because they're a sponsor.
需要明确的是，我选择 AG1 并不是因为他们是赞助商。
Rather, they are a sponsor because I take AG1.
相反，他们是赞助商，因为我选择了 AG1。
In fact, I take AG1 once and often twice every single day, and I've done that since starting way back in 2012 There is so much conflicting information out there nowadays about what proper nutrition is.
事实上，我每天服用一次 AG1，经常服用两次，从 2012 年开始我就这样做了。如今，关于什么是适当的营养，存在很多相互矛盾的信息。
But here's what there seems to be a general consensus on.
但这似乎是一个普遍共识。
Whether you're an omnivore, a carnivore, a vegetarian, or a vegan, I think it's generally agreed that you should get most of your food from unprocessed or minimally processed sources, which allows you to eat enough but not overeat, get plenty of vitamins and minerals, probiotics, and micronutrients that we all need for physical and mental health.
无论你是杂食动物、肉食动物、素食主义者还是纯素食主义者，我认为人们普遍认为你应该从未经加工或最低限度加工的来源获取大部分食物，这样你就可以吃得足够但不过量，获得充足的维生素和矿物质、益生菌和微量营养素，这些都是我们身心健康所需的。
Now, I personally am an omnivore, and I strive to get most of my food from unprocessed or minimally processed sources.
现在，我个人是杂食动物，我努力从未加工或最低限度加工的来源获取大部分食物。
But the reason I still take AG1 once and often twice every day is that it ensures I get all of those vitamins, minerals, probiotics, et cetera, but it also has adaptogens to help me cope with stress.
但我仍然每天服用一次 AG1（通常是两次）的原因是它可以确保我获得所有维生素、矿物质、益生菌等，而且它还含有适应原来帮助我应对压力。
It's basically a nutritional insurance policy meant to augment, not replace, quality food.
它基本上是一项营养保险政策，旨在增强而不是取代优质食品。
So by drinking a serving of AG1 in the morning and again in the afternoon or evening, I cover all of my foundational nutritional needs.
因此，通过早上喝一份 AG1，然后在下午或晚上再喝一次，我就可以满足我所有的基本营养需求。
And I, like so many other people that take AG1, report feeling much better in a number of important ways, such as energy levels, digestion, sleep, and more.
和许多其他服用 AG1 的人一样，我报告在许多重要方面感觉好多了，例如能量水平、消化、睡眠等。
So while many supplements out there are really directed towards obtaining one specific outcome, AG1 is foundational nutrition designed to support all aspects of wellbeing related to mental health and physical health.
因此，虽然许多补充剂实际上是为了获得一种特定的结果，但 AG1 是基础营养，旨在支持与心理健康和身体健康相关的各个方面的福祉。
If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。
They'll give you five free travel packs with your order, plus a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2.
您订购后，他们将赠送 5 个免费旅行套装，以及一年的维生素 D3 K2。
Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman.
再说一遍，这是 Drinkag1.com/huberman。
There was something that popped to mind.
脑海中突然浮现出一件事。
There are all these little things that also go into my perfect day that we don't have to go into every detail about-
所有这些小事情也构成了我完美的一天，我们不必详细讨论每一个细节——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah, you go through your whole evening
是的，你度过了整个晚上
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like working out and the whole thing.
就像锻炼和整个事情一样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I just want to maybe mention a point of contrast that served as one of the reasons why I did this practice in the first place-
但我只是想提一下对比点，这也是我最初进行这种练习的原因之一——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
was that in real life, I was waking up, and sometimes still do wake up with this underlying tension, like something's not right.
在现实生活中，我醒来时，有时仍然会带着这种潜在的紧张感醒来，就像有些事情不对劲一样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't feel good.
我感觉不太好。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I wasn't anxious.
我并不着急。
But something's not right.
但有些不对劲。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I went through years of kind of gnawing and scratching at different things that-
我经历了多年的啃咬和抓挠不同的东西——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm
嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I quickly discovered, like going out for a couple drinks with people made me feel worse.
我很快发现，和别人出去喝几杯会让我感觉更糟。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't judge people who drink whatsoever.
我不会评判喝酒的人。
I'm like, "I don't like this."
我想，“我不喜欢这个。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But this unease-
但这种不安——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it's like a restlessness-
就像一种不安——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that lived inside of me for so long and still can surface-
它在我内心生活了这么久，仍然可以浮现出来-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm
嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
as a signal that this is not the right life.
作为一个信号，表明这不是正确的生活。
And at that point-
就在那时——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
at a laboratory-
在实验室-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow
哇
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
writing grants, we're publishing papers, all these things that I loved doing and that I loved the trajectory that I took to arrive there and the people that were in my life, but I just knew.
写赠款，我们发表论文，所有这些我喜欢做的事情，我喜欢我到达那里的轨迹以及我生活中的人们，但我只是知道。
I could just say, like-
我只能说，就像——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
"Something's not right." And I felt terribly guilty.
“有些不对劲。”我感到非常内疚。
The reason I'm telling you this is I felt terribly guilty.
我之所以告诉你这些，是因为我感到非常内疚。
I owned a home, right?
我拥有一个家，对吗？
I was in my mid-30s, and it wasn't an expensive home-
我当时30多岁，房子也不贵——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
certainly not by today's standards, but I was able to buy a home-
当然不是按照今天的标准，但我能够买房子-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow
哇
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
on my own.
靠我自己。
I had my dog.
我有我的狗。
I had people in my life.
我的生活中有一些人。
But it was almost like a gear that was grinding.
但它几乎就像一个正在磨削的齿轮。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that was the stimulus for exploring this perfect day.
这就是探索这个完美的一天的动力。
My life looks completely different now.
我的生活现在看起来完全不同了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Really?
真的吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's far from, quote-unquote, "perfect," meaning there's still work to do in a lot of domains.
而且它远非“完美”，这意味着在很多领域仍有工作要做。
A lot.
很多。
But I feel like the trajectory is right.
但我觉得这个轨迹是对的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And I really believe the source of all my work-- I was getting my doctorate at Harvard.
我真的相信我所有工作的源泉——我在哈佛大学获得博士学位。
I'd gotten my bachelor's there.
我在那里获得了学士学位。
I'd been there since I was 17.
我从 17 岁起就在那里了。
And halfway through my doctorate, during that time, I'd gotten married, had a child.
在我攻读博士学位的过程中，我结婚了，生了孩子。
My second child was prenatally diagnosed with Down syndrome, and I was six months into the pregnancy almost, and I had like two weeks to make a decision.
我的第二个孩子在产前被诊断出患有唐氏综合症，而我已经怀孕六个月了，我有大约两周的时间来做决定。
And I'm politically very pro-choice, and I would, again, never judge anyone who made the other decision, but I couldn't do it.
我在政治上非常支持堕胎，我永远不会评判任何做出其他决定的人，但我做不到。
I was already sort of bonded to him.
我已经和他有了某种联系。
And I kept asking the question of myself, "What makes a human life worth living?" Because the doctors at the Harvard Medical Clinic and all my advisors told me, "You have got to, at the very least, institutionalize this child the second he's born."
我不断问自己这个问题：“是什么让人类的生活变得有价值？”因为哈佛医学诊所的医生和我所有的顾问都告诉我，“至少，你必须在这个孩子出生后将他送入收容机构。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Institutionalize?
制度化？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah, for sure.
哦，是的，当然。
They said, "You're throwing your career away." The head of the obstetrics committee, there were five obstetricians, and the chief dude came in, and there I was sitting on a bed in my little hospital napkin, and he said, "This is like a cancerous tumor.
他们说：“你正在放弃你的职业生涯。”产科委员会主席，有五名产科医生，主任进来了，我坐在床上，裹着医院的小餐巾，他说：“这就像一个癌性肿瘤。
You've got to let us take it out.
你必须让我们把它拿出来。
It will ruin your life." And I just looked at him, and I had the weirdest experience, Andrew.
它会毁了你的生活。”我只是看着他，我就有了最奇怪的经历，安德鲁。
I looked at this very intimidating guy, and I'm there sort of young and naked and pregnant.
我看着这个非常令人生畏的家伙，我就在那里，年轻、赤身裸体、怀孕了。
And suddenly it was like I could see two faces on him, and one was this very stern, knowledgeable doctor, and the other one was a terrified child.
突然间，我仿佛在他身上看到了两张脸，一张是这位非常严厉、知识渊博的医生，另一张是一个受到惊吓的孩子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Terrified.
吓坏了。
And it was so striking that I started looking at him strangely.
这太引人注目了，我开始奇怪地看着他。
I'm sure he thought I was completely nuts.
我确信他认为我完全疯了。
But I looked at him and I thought, "You're afraid.
但我看着他，心里想：“你害怕了。
You're afraid of this baby." And that's when I realized that a lot of people don't go to Harvard because they know they're smart.
你害怕这个孩子。”就在那时我意识到很多人不去哈佛是因为他们知道自己很聪明。
They go there because they're afraid they're stupid.
他们去那里是因为他们害怕自己很愚蠢。
And he was-
而他是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Probably true for a lot of higher education institutions.
对于许多高等教育机构来说可能都是如此。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And I thought, he's afraid of the, in quotes, "stupid little boy inside me" because he's afraid of the stupid little boy inside him.
我想，他害怕用引号引起来的“我内心的愚蠢小男孩”，因为他害怕他内心的愚蠢小男孩。
He's terrified of being the person he's worked so hard not to be.
他害怕成为他努力工作却未能成为的人。
He's afraid of being like my son, and he thinks that should be thrown away.
他害怕像我儿子一样，他认为应该把它扔掉。
And that was the point at which I said, "I will not make my decisions based on social pressure." I have to do something from a very, very deep place within.
就在那时，我说：“我不会根据社会压力做出决定。”我必须从内心深处做一些事情。
And so I kept that...
所以我保留了...
I mean, he's home right now.
我是说，他现在在家。
We're having a great time.
我们玩得很开心。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Adam, right?
亚当，对吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Adam.
亚当.
My son, Adam.
我的儿子，亚当。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I only know his name through your books, of course.
当然，我只是通过你的书才知道他的名字。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I feel like I know him a little bit, because I love the story about him peeing on the doctor.
但我觉得我对他有一点了解，因为我喜欢他在医生身上撒尿的故事。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
The very first thing he ever did in this life was the doctor pulled him out of my body, and I saw this arc of urine go straight into the doctor's face and I was like-
他这辈子做的第一件事就是医生把他从我的身体里拉出来，我看到这条尿液的弧线直接进入了医生的脸，我就像——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Beautiful
美丽
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
so proud of my child at that moment.
那一刻我为我的孩子感到骄傲。
I thought, if only I'd thought to do that.
我想，如果我想这么做就好了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to just, for lack of a better way to put it, double-click on two things.
由于缺乏更好的表达方式，我只想双击两个东西。
First of all-
首先——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I wonder, if we're going to speculate, no need to, but if the perfect day exercise is really about accessing the subconscious.
我想知道，如果我们要推测，没有必要，但完美的日常锻炼是否真的是关于进入潜意识。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That's why I told that long story.
这就是我讲这个长故事的原因。
That when I had to make that decision, it was the first time I had dropped everything conscious and logical from my mind and come from a place that was, I believe it's part of our neurological apparatus, but the cognitive structures are so-- Cognitive function is just a tiny fraction of what our whole nervous systems are able to detect and tell us.
当我必须做出这个决定时，这是我第一次放弃头脑中所有有意识和逻辑的东西，而来自一个地方，我相信它是我们神经系统的一部分，但认知结构是这样的——认知功能只是我们整个神经系统能够检测和告诉我们的一小部分。
And for the first time, I was making a decision from every cell in my body instead of just my neocortex.
这是我第一次从我身体的每个细胞而不是仅仅从我的新皮质中做出决定。
And I realized my life is not meant to go like his life.
我意识到我的生活并不像他的生活那样。
And the person in the next bed, their life isn't meant to be like mine.
还有隔壁床上的那个人，他们的生活注定不会像我一样。
But we all have this programmed into us somehow.
但我们都以某种方式将这一点编入了我们的体内。
And when we start to leave it, in my last book, I called it "Leaving our integrity," because to be in integrity just means to be one thing.
当我们开始放弃它时，在我的上一本书中，我称之为“放弃我们的正直”，因为正直意味着成为一件事。
It doesn't have any moral implications in the original Latin.
它在原始拉丁语中没有任何道德含义。
It just means integer, one thing.
它只是意味着整数，一件事。
So, we're born knowing who we are.
所以，我们生来就知道自己是谁。
But at some point, usually not long after birth, we get socialized away from expressing exactly what our own truth is telling us.
但在某些时候，通常是在出生后不久，我们就开始社会化，不再准确地表达我们自己的真相告诉我们的内容。
We get socialized to behave in ways that please other people.
我们逐渐适应社会，以取悦他人的方式行事。
Very simple.
很简单。
And as you're describing it, I had a great life.
正如你所描述的，我的生活很美好。
I had a lab, I had a dog, I had a house.
我有一个实验室，我有一只狗，我有一所房子。
Those are all socially recognized items that say your life is working.
这些都是社会公认的东西，表明你的生活很顺利。
But they have nothing to do with your personal destiny.
但它们与你个人的命运无关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
In my case, again, I loved, and I still love doing science.
就我而言，我再次热爱并且仍然热爱科学研究。
My lab has certainly shrunk.
我的实验室确实缩小了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I made sure people got placed in jobs and faculty positions, et cetera.
我确保人们找到工作和教职等。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm still involved in some clinical trials, but one thing that pained me about the work, I'll just come clean about this.
我仍在参与一些临床试验，但工作中让我痛苦的一件事，我会坦白说出来。
This makes my throat lock up a bit is, I've been an animal lover since I was a kid.
这让我的喉咙有点哽咽，我从小就是一个动物爱好者。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do eat meat.
我确实吃肉。
I eat it from sustainable sources.
我从可持续来源吃它。
But not all, but a lot of the work that I did in my laboratory was on animals.
但并非全部，但我在实验室所做的很多工作都是在动物身上进行的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And at some point, it was approximately halfway through my first position, I realized, I was like, "I don't like this."
在某个时刻，大约是我第一个职位的一半，我意识到，我当时想，“我不喜欢这个。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we could talk all day about animal research, non-animal research.
我们可以整天谈论动物研究、非动物研究。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I decided to work on humans instead- ...
我决定转而研究人类——...
because they can consent, and they house themselves.
因为他们可以同意，并且他们自己安置。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there were some pain points, but-
所以有一些痛点，但是-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I think my unconscious was pulling at me.
我想我的潜意识正在拉扯我。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like, "This isn't good.
就像，“这不好。
This isn't good for me."
这对我来说不好。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I do think that the conscious mind, and the logical mind, as you're referring to it, it's very tactical.
我确实认为，正如你所指的，意识思维和逻辑思维非常具有战术性。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And part of the problem is it works so well-
部分问题是它运作得很好——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
works in quotes-
在引号中工作-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to move us forward on metrics related to that.
推动我们在相关指标上取得进展。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there are very few people that I know who are truly aligned with their, I guess what you've called essential self.
但据我所知，真正与他们（我猜你所说的本质自我）保持一致的人很少。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One who I'm fortunate to be good friends with, he just so happens to be famous, for lack of a better word, who resonates with a lot of what we're discussing is the great Rick Rubin, the music producer-
我很幸运能与他成为好朋友，他碰巧很有名，因为找不到更好的词，他与我们正在讨论的很多内容产生共鸣，他就是伟大的音乐制作人里克·鲁宾（Rick Rubin）——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
who's produced all these different types of-
谁生产了所有这些不同类型的-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
music.
音乐。
And one thing that's really interesting about Rick, I've spent a lot of time with Rick, and we communicate all the time, and one thing that is very interesting about him is he has incredible powers of observation.
瑞克真正有趣的一件事是，我和瑞克一起度过了很多时间，我们一直在交流，而他非常有趣的一件事是他拥有令人难以置信的观察力。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He can really feel the energy-
他真切地感受到了能量——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of a musical artist or-- And he's produced other things, too.
一位音乐艺术家的作品或者——他还创作了其他作品。
He does a great documentary.
他制作了一部很棒的纪录片。
He's got his own great podcast.
他有自己很棒的播客。
But he doesn't get absorbed by it.
但他并没有被它吸引。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I wanted to talk to you about this because I think for people that are very feeling-
我想和你谈谈这个，因为我认为对于那些非常有感情的人来说——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
very sentient, or really in touch with that, the ability to feel music, to feel-
非常有感知力，或者说真正与之接触，感受音乐的能力，感受——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
other people's emotions-
别人的情绪——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to really-- That's a beautiful life.
真的——那是美好的生活。
To taste food.
来品尝食物。
But there's a threshold beyond which we kind of lose ourselves in the experience of others and what's going on.
但有一个门槛，超过这个门槛，我们就会在他人的经历和正在发生的事情中迷失自己。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Rick can go right up to that line-
瑞克可以直接走到那条线——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow
哇
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and really see it and enjoy it, but it doesn't absorb him.
并真正看到它并享受它，但它并没有吸引他。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In a way that he has a place that he returns to that's in him.
在某种程度上，他有一个可以回归的地方，那就是他的内心。
And the reason I discovered this is I said, "Wait, you don't drink alcohol?" He said, "No." I said, "No drugs?" He said, "No." Doesn't judge it, but he doesn't do it.
我发现这一点的原因是我说：“等等，你不喝酒吗？”他说：“不。”我说：“没有毒品吗？”他说：“不。”不评判它，但他不这样做。
I said, "Did you ever?" He said, "No." And I said, "Who comes up through music-
我说：“你有过吗？”他说：“不。”我说，“谁是通过音乐崛起的——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and never takes a sip of alcohol?"
而且从不喝一口酒？”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow.
哇。
Wow.
哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Goes to college and never took a sip of alcohol or tried any drug.
上大学，从未喝过一口酒或尝试过任何药物。
And again, I don't judge.
再说一次，我不评判。
I've talked about psychedelics on this podcast.
我在这个播客上谈论过迷幻药。
I've talked about my own relationship to those, what I think are very interesting clinical trials and things of that sort.
我已经谈到了我自己与这些的关系，我认为这是非常有趣的临床试验和类似的事情。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think there's tremendous potential there.
我认为那里有巨大的潜力。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I agree.
我同意。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But what is it to be able to experience life in the richest way, but make sure that we don't get- Lost in feeling or in thought.
但是，能够以最丰富的方式体验生活又是什么呢，但要确保我们不会迷失在感觉或思想中。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like this ability to move back and forth seems to be the best definition of a great life-
仿佛这种来回走动的能力似乎就是对美好生活的最好定义——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in my opinion, because we need to do things each day.
在我看来，因为我们每天都需要做一些事情。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I would say you don't even have to go back and forth.
我想说你甚至不必来回。
You can do it all at once.
您可以一次性完成所有操作。
You can feel, you can think, and you can stay in the driver's seat and not be overwhelmed, either intellectually or emotionally.
你可以感觉，你可以思考，你可以坐在驾驶座上，而不是在智力上或情感上不知所措。
But I think it has a lot to do with, you were talking about Asian, Eastern meditation practices.
但我认为这与你谈论的亚洲、东方冥想练习有很大关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
There's a little exercise I like to do with people where if they're struggling with a bad habit, I say, "Imagine the part of you that is always doing the bad thing," like smoking 20 packs a day or whatever.
我喜欢和人们一起做一个小练习，如果他们正在与一个坏习惯作斗争，我会说，“想象一下你总是在做坏事的那一部分，”比如每天吸 20 包烟或其他什么。
Imagine them as a wild thing in your left hand, and then imagine the part of you that hates him and says, "Stop smoking," in your right hand, and look at them, and begin to see that they're both well-meaning, they're both exhausted, and you can wish them both well.
想象他们在你的左手上是一个狂野的东西，然后想象你的一部分恨他，并在你的右手上说：“停止吸烟”，然后看着他们，开始发现他们都是善意的，他们都精疲力尽了，你可以祝他们都好。
So the wild child part is not thinking, it's just feeling.
所以野孩子的部分不是思考，而是感觉。
The controlling part is not feeling, it's just thinking.
控制部分不是感觉，而是思考。
And if I can get people, and I have them put their hands out because I know it's going to activate both sides of their brains, and then I have them wish these people well, "May you be well, may you be happy." When they can feel compassion for both sides of themselves, then I ask them, "So who are you?" And who they've become is a compassionate witness-
如果我能找到人们，我会让他们伸出双手，因为我知道这会激活他们的大脑两侧，然后我让他们祝愿这些人一切顺利，“祝你一切顺利，祝你快乐。”当他们能够对自己的两面感到同情时，我就会问他们：“那么你是谁？”他们成为了富有同情心的见证人——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
which is not thinking, and it's not feeling in the way we think.
这不是思考，也不是我们思考方式的感觉。
It's not emotional.
这不是情绪化的。
The word emotion means movement disturbance.
情绪这个词意味着运动障碍。
This part of one's being is not ever disturbed or moved.
一个人存在的这一部分永远不会受到干扰或移动。
It's totally still and totally peaceful and completely compassionate.
它是完全静止、完全平和、完全富有同情心的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like the ultimate parent.
这就像最终的父母。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
It is.
这是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And Dick Schwartz, who came up with the model of internal family systems theory, I don't know if you've had him on the show.
还有迪克·施瓦茨（Dick Schwartz），他提出了内部家庭系统理论模型，我不知道你是否在节目中邀请过他。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Have not, but I'm learning more about internal family systems models.
还没有，但我正在更多地了解内部家庭系统模型。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It's powerful.
它很强大。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I learned about this first in the context of visiting a trauma healing center.
我是在参观创伤治疗中心时第一次了解到这一点的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
That's great for trauma.
这对创伤很有好处。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then people are now applying this to addiction as well.
人们现在也将其应用于成瘾问题。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'll get his name from you later.
稍后我会从你那里得到他的名字。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Richard Schwartz.
理查德·施瓦茨。
Anyway, I was talking to him and he said, we all have different parts.
不管怎样，我和他说话，他说，我们都有不同的部分。
There's a part of you that feels like a little kid and wants to curl up in bed.
你的一部分感觉像个小孩子，想要蜷缩在床上。
There's a part of you that wants to go rule the world, whatever your parts are.
你的一部分想要统治世界，无论你的部分是什么。
So he talks to people about these different parts, and then sometimes they say, "Oh, I've just come up against-- There's someone here who's very still, who's very huge, who's very kind." And he calls it Self with a capital S.
所以他和人们谈论这些不同的部分，然后有时他们会说，“哦，我刚刚遇到——这里有一个人非常安静，非常巨大，非常友善。”他称其为Self，并用大写的S。
And he says after thousands of patients, he'll say, "What part of you is that?" And they say, "Oh, this isn't a part like the others.
他说，在看过数千名患者之后，他会说：“那是你的哪一部分？”他们说：“哦，这和其他部分不一样。
This is who I am." And he believes that it's just one unified self.
这就是我。”他相信这只是一个统一的自我。
And for me, if I don't find and lock into that self, I am immediately swept away by my emotions and my brain-
而对我来说，如果我没有找到并锁定那个自我，我就会立即被我的情绪和我的大脑冲走——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
just like in the gale force winds.
就像在狂风中一样。
So I have to be very, not grounded, but centered and identified with this self before I can even leave the house.
因此，在我离开家之前，我必须非常不脚踏实地，而是集中并认同这个自我。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How do you go about doing that?
你打算怎样做呢？
And one of the reasons I'm asking this is because I think everyone, including myself, would do well to be able to access this-
我问这个问题的原因之一是因为我认为每个人，包括我自己，都应该能够很好地访问这个-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
compassionate witness self.
慈悲见证自我。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But also because so many people are on social media nowadays-
但也因为现在很多人都在社交媒体上——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where you can almost feel yourself getting pulled down these trajectories, like the gravitational pull-
你几乎可以感觉到自己被拉向这些轨迹，就像万有引力一样——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of a battle or a video or even something that's delightful, but then you find, like, two hours went by and-
一场战斗或一段视频，甚至一些令人愉快的事情，但然后你发现，两个小时过去了，然后——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you over-consumed and-
你过度消费并且-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and under-created in some sense.
从某种意义上说，是创造不足的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It's like junk food.
这就像垃圾食品。
It tastes delicious, but then you feel like, "Blah."
它尝起来很美味，但随后你会觉得，“废话。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it goes nowhere.
是的，它无处可去。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This sort of goes nowhere.
这种事无处可去。
So do you have a practice that you use to make sure that you're in that place?
那么你有没有一种练习来确保你处于那个位置呢？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I do, and it's called suffering.
我愿意，这就是所谓的痛苦。
It's very reliable.
这是非常可靠的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know why that made me laugh.
我不知道为什么这让我笑了。
Forgive me.
对不起。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
My best friend, suffering.
我最好的朋友，痛苦。
I have a deeply love-hate relationship with suffering.
我对苦难是又爱又恨。
If I'm, for example, I can barely look at Instagram because I will watch a monkey nursing a kitten-
例如，如果我是，我几乎不能看 Instagram，因为我会看一只猴子哺乳一只小猫 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
and then I will be down that rabbit hole so far.
然后我就一直在那个兔子洞里了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You and me both.
你和我都是。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And eight hours later, I'm meh.
八个小时后，我就没什么了。
But I will start to suffer.
但我会开始受苦。
I will start to physically feel cramped.
我会开始感到身体局促。
My eyes will start to hurt and water, and I will start to feel what you were saying, the grinding of the gear that is wrong.
我的眼睛会开始疼痛、流泪，我会开始感觉到你所说的，齿轮的磨削是错误的。
The machine, it's not in structural integrity.
这台机器的结构不完整。
It's like when your car starts making a funny sound, and you're like, "I should not ignore that." And it always feels like discomfort, tension, anxiety, anger, any of those things.
这就像当你的车开始发出有趣的声音时，你会想，“我不应该忽视它。”总感觉不舒服、紧张、焦虑、愤怒，诸如此类。
And then the practice of my life is to notice those sensations at a finer and more granular level, so that the moment I'm off true, I can stop and say, "Okay.
然后我的生活实践就是在更精细、更细致的层面上注意到这些感觉，这样当我偏离真实的时候，我就可以停下来说：“好吧。
Whew.
呼。
Out of integrity.
出于诚信。
Okay." Now I'm into anxiety because a divided person is always anxious, so to get away from that, from anxiety, and back to true, I use the body, sit back, straighten my spine, take a deep breath, do all the things that I'm sure you do when you meditate, and then I sink into that part of myself that I was just trying to pull up for people with the two hands exercise.
好吧。”现在我陷入焦虑，因为一个分裂的人总是焦虑，所以为了摆脱焦虑，回到真实，我使用身体，坐下来，伸直我的脊椎，深呼吸，做所有我确信你冥想时会做的事情，然后我陷入我自己的那部分，我只是试图为人们用两只手练习拉起来。
And I believe, you could probably tell me the truth of this, I believe that I've wired a pretty strong super highway in my brain that goes, "Oops, suffering.
我相信，你可能会告诉我真相，我相信我已经在我的大脑中连接了一条非常强大的高速公路，上面写着：“哎呀，痛苦。
Find Self with a capital S." And I've done it so many thousands of times that I think I have, like, a highly myelinated circuit that just goes there.
用大写的 S 来寻找自我。”我已经这样做了数千次，我想我有一个高度有髓鞘的电路就在那里。
Shoop.
唷。
And then no matter what's happening, I can usually just find it, feel it, and it's an exquisite sensation.
然后无论发生什么，我通常都能找到它、感受到它，这是一种美妙的感觉。
It's like coming home completely over and over again.
这就像一遍又一遍地完全回家一样。
It's...
这是...
Oh.
哦。
And now when I do an ideal day, everything else is incidental.
现在，当我度过了理想的一天时，其他一切都是偶然的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
The key is I'm in that self.
关键是我就在那个自我里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the state is what's key.
所以国家是关键。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
And it has so much fun in this world.
而且这个世界上还有这么多的乐趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so you can walk around in that state.
所以你可以在那种状态下四处走动。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
For sure.
一定。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So to be sure I understand, so say I wake up in the morning and I'm just not feeling right or something triggers me-
所以为了确保我理解，假设我早上醒来，我只是感觉不对劲或者有什么东西触发了我-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or, I don't know, just like I'm off center.
或者，我不知道，就像我偏离了中心一样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You take that sensation of suffering-
你接受那种痛苦的感觉——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and you don't fear it, you don't amplify it, you just pay attention to it.
你不害怕它，也不放大它，你只是关注它。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You pay attention to it.
你注意一下。
And here is the key thing.
这是关键的事情。
This is in my new book.
这是我的新书中的内容。
I kept this a secret because it sounded so silly, and I thought this would never go in the Ivy League.
我保守了这个秘密，因为这听起来很愚蠢，而且我认为这永远不会在常春藤联盟中进行。
But there's something I call KIST, K-I-S-T, and it stands for kind internal self-talk.
但有一种东西我称之为 KIST，K-I-S-T，它代表善良的内心自言自语。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So what do you call yourself when you think to yourself, Andrew, Andy?
那么，当你想到自己时，你会怎么称呼自己，安德鲁，安迪？
What do you call yourself?
你怎么称呼自己？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You.
你。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, just, yeah.
是的，只是，是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So you'd be sitting there and you don't feel good, you don't feel right.
所以你坐在那里，你感觉不舒服，感觉不对劲。
The first thing you do is allow yourself to register every sensation without pushing back, without restricting it.
你要做的第一件事就是让自己记录每一种感觉，不要抗拒，不要限制它。
People talk to me about bringing down their anxiety.
人们跟我谈论如何降低他们的焦虑。
And I say, "How'd you feel if I told you I was going to bring you down?" That's not a nice thing to say.
我说：“如果我告诉你我要把你打倒，你感觉如何？”这可不是什么好话。
If I told you I'm here to understand you and care about you, better.
如果我告诉你我来这里是为了理解你、关心你，那就更好了。
So just allow yourself to feel all the suffering, and then start saying kind things to the one who is suffering, even if it's just tiny suffering.
因此，让自己感受所有的痛苦，然后开始对正在受苦的人说些善意的话，即使只是微小的痛苦。
Just go, "How are you?
就去吧，“你怎么样？
How you doing?
你怎么样？
Not great?
不太好？
Ah, okay, so there's some anxiety.
啊，好吧，所以有一些焦虑。
Oh, your sinuses are blocked, too.
哦，你的鼻窦也被堵住了。
Oh, let's see.
哦，让我们看看。
What could we do for you?
我们能为您做什么？
Let's get you a hot drink and a call with a good friend or a book or something." And you just actively work as your own caregiver from the moment you are conscious in the morning.
我们给你喝杯热饮，给好朋友打电话，或者买本书什么的。”从早上有意识的那一刻起，您就作为自己的照顾者积极工作。
And what that does is it makes you so compassionate to other people because you're not fighting the suffering in yourself.
这样做的作用是让你对其他人如此富有同情心，因为你没有与自己的痛苦作斗争。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah, people in pain are usually agitated and grumpy and-
是的，处于痛苦中的人通常会变得焦躁、脾气暴躁，而且——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
so it's the inverse of that.
所以这是相反的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I love this.
我喜欢这个。
In some sense, the words self-parenting keep coming up in my mind.
从某种意义上说，“自我养育”这个词不断出现在我的脑海中。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because a lot of this is about learning to parent ourselves from the inside.
因为这很大程度上是关于学习从内部养育自己。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I do think that most-- We hear about inner child stuff, and I think inner child work is very interesting.
我确实认为，我们大多数人都听说过有关内在小孩的东西，而且我认为内在小孩的工作非常有趣。
I also think that as a biologist who spent the early part of my career on developmental neurobiology, the same neural stuff is repurposed-
我还认为，作为一名在我职业生涯早期研究发育神经生物学的生物学家，同样的神经东西被重新利用了——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in adulthood.
成年后。
That's something that it's kind of obvious, but we overlook.
这是显而易见的事情，但我们却忽略了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
I'm like, "I've got some inner adults here who aren't very happy, too."
我想，“我这里也有一些内心成年人不太高兴的人。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
But the notion that our attachments when we're young, somehow those neural circuits are set aside, so then we can form more mature adult attachments.
但我们年轻时的依恋，不知何故，这些神经回路被搁置了，这样我们就可以形成更成熟的成人依恋。
It's like, no, that's crazy.
就像，不，那太疯狂了。
We repurpose them.
我们重新调整它们的用途。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we're working in an adult landscape with child-
所以我们在一个有孩子的成人景观中工作——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
based algorithms.
基于算法。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And depending on how childhood went, that either can be spectacular or so-so or a complete disaster.
根据童年的经历，这可能是壮观的，也可能是马马虎虎的，也可能是一场彻底的灾难。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But usually, it's a combination.
但通常情况下，它是一个组合。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That obstetrician at Harvard, I would bet my last dime that he was still working on the same circuits he used when he was five, and they were pretty scary.
哈佛的那位产科医生，我敢打赌，他仍然在使用他五岁时使用的相同电路，而且它们非常可怕。
So yeah, we all have multiple causes of suffering, but we also have, I wouldn't actually call it inner parenting, because that basically implies that only parents give that to children, and I think it's just humaning.
所以，是的，我们都有多种痛苦的原因，但我们也有，我实际上不会称之为内在养育，因为这基本上意味着只有父母才能给孩子带来痛苦，我认为这只是人性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
If you are truly humane, if you are truly in a state of Self with a capital S, there is nothing in you that wants to cause suffering for any other being.
如果你真正仁慈，如果你真正处于大写S的自我状态，你内心就没有任何东西想要给任何其他众生造成痛苦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And there's nothing in you that doesn't want to help ease the suffering of the entire world.
你身上没有什么不想帮助减轻整个世界的痛苦的。
So again, now I'm into a kind of Asian modality of, there's this Bodhisattva prayer that goes, "For as long as space endures and as long as sentient beings exist, may I also abide that I might heal with my heart the miseries of the world." And that part of us is in everyone.
所以，现在我再次陷入了一种亚洲模式，有这样的菩萨祈祷文：“只要虚空存在，只要众生存在，愿我也安住，用我的心治愈世界的痛苦。”我们的这一部分存在于每个人身上。
And if we become those people, it won't just be parents being kind to children.
如果我们成为这样的人，就不仅仅是父母善待孩子了。
It will be humans being kind to each other, the Earth, and all other beings.
人类将善待彼此，善待地球，善待所有其他生物。
And we may actually make it into another century.
我们实际上可能会进入另一个世纪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
No, it's looking a little sketchy right now.
不，现在看起来有点粗略。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It's looking sketchy.
看起来很粗略。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Things are tense.
事情很紧张。
It sounds like it starts with self-love, compassion.
听起来好像是从自爱、同情心开始的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Always.
总是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Only from that place of compassionate witness, Self with a capital S, excuse me, can we be at our best for-
只有从那个富有同情心的见证者那里，自我带有大写的S，对不起，我们才能处于最好的状态-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
others.
其他人。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I believe it's actually the only part of us that's real.
我相信这实际上是我们唯一真实的部分。
I talked a minute ago about people who are dying.
一分钟前我谈到了即将死去的人。
They drop the pretense.
他们放弃了伪装。
They don't need the pretense of belonging to the material world or the material body anymore, and that radiance begins to gather in their eyes.
他们不再需要假装属于物质世界或物质身体，那种光芒开始在他们的眼中聚集。
And it's not new.
这并不新鲜。
It's what they came in with.
这就是他们进来时带来的。
If you've looked into the eyes of a young child, a little baby, you see the same thing, and it's only when people die that they put down everything else.
如果你看着一个小孩子、一个小婴儿的眼睛，你会看到同样的事情，只有当人们死去时，他们才会放下其他一切。
Unless, as Eckhart Tolle says, "You die before you die and learn that there is no death," because that self does not feel physical.
除非，正如埃克哈特·托尔所说，“你在死之前就死了，并且知道死亡并不存在”，因为那个自我感觉不到肉体。
It feels metaphysical.
感觉很形而上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you would, let's drill into this a little bit more, because this is a high level, but at the same time, basic and yet abstract-
如果你愿意的话，让我们更深入地研究一下这个问题，因为这是一个很高的层次，但同时也是基本而又抽象的——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
concept.
概念。
And it's not often on this podcast that we talk about abstract concepts.
在这个播客中我们并不经常谈论抽象概念。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We probably don't do it enough.
我们可能做得还不够。
I talk about protocols, you get your sunlight-
我谈论协议，你得到你的阳光-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I love that stuff
我喜欢那个东西
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
on clear days.
在晴朗的日子里。
And I love that stuff, too, but as probably people realize by now, I think a great life is bridging as many things, at least for me, as possible-
我也喜欢这些东西，但正如人们现在可能意识到的那样，我认为美好的生活是尽可能地连接尽可能多的东西，至少对我来说是这样——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and seeing the overlap in the Venn diagrams.
并看到维恩图中的重叠。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it's the only part of us that's real, meaning the other parts are just conditioned?
那么它是我们唯一真实的部分，这意味着其他部分只是受到制约？
I think you've said-
我想你已经说过——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
The other parts are impermanent.
其他部分是无常的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
They will vanish.
他们将会消失。
As Shakespeare says, "Everything will just disappear and leave not a wreck behind.
正如莎士比亚所说：“一切都会消失，不会留下任何残骸。
We are such stuff as dreams are made on." There is an experience that is common to individuals all over the world in different cultures at different times, where they start to say they feel as if they've awakened from a dream.
我们就是梦想赖以实现的东西。”世界各地、不同文化、不同时期的人们都有一种共同的经历，他们开始说自己感觉好像从梦中醒来。
Plato did it with his cave analogy.
柏拉图用他的洞穴比喻做到了这一点。
He said, "Imagine that we all live chained in a cave, and there's a fire behind us, and we see shadows on the wall, and that's what we call reality." And then someone gets out of the cave and goes outside and sees this three-dimensional world where everything's bright and mobile, and goes back and says, "People, the shadows on the wall are real, they're real shadows, but they're not the ultimate reality.
他说：“想象一下，我们都被锁在一个山洞里，我们身后有一堆火，我们看到墙上的影子，这就是我们所说的现实。”然后有人走出洞穴，走到外面，看到这个三维世界，一切都是明亮的、流动的，然后回去说：“各位，墙上的影子是真实的，它们是真实的影子，但它们不是最终的现实。
You should come outside and see it." And Plato said everybody would say he was crazy.
你应该到外面去看看。”柏拉图说每个人都会说他疯了。
And that's what academia says now.
这就是学术界现在所说的。
You're crazy.
你疯了。
If you've ever had an experience where you felt like there was something realer than your physical self, you're crazy.
如果你曾经有过这样的经历，感觉有某种东西比你的肉体更真实，那么你就疯了。
Read Plato.
读柏拉图。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Well, it's interesting because a few years ago, so many concepts that I was intrigued by, breathwork-
嗯，这很有趣，因为几年前，我对很多概念很感兴趣，呼吸——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for instance, psychedelics-
例如迷幻药——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
meditation.
冥想。
Now people get federal grants to study this stuff.
现在人们获得联邦拨款来研究这些东西。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we do reductionist work to try and understand it.
我们进行还原论工作来尝试理解它。
In fact, I had to disguise breathwork as respiration physiology.
事实上，我不得不将呼吸伪装成呼吸生理学。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
There you go.
就这样吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which we did, and we did a clinical trial, and lo and behold, certain patterns of breathing shift your internal state, and your sleep, and your anxiety.
我们这样做了，我们做了一项临床试验，你瞧，某些呼吸模式会改变你的内部状态、你的睡眠和你的焦虑。
It's like a duh.
这就像一个废话。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Who would have thought of that?
谁会想到这一点？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like a giant duh, but it was scary territory for a while.
这就像一个巨大的废话，但有一段时间它是一个可怕的领域。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It is, yeah.
是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And now, psychedelics have broken through as-- I just have to say this while touching my forehead and like- ...
现在，迷幻药已经突破了——我只需摸着我的额头就可以这么说——……
they adjust neuromodulators just like, but differently than-
他们调整神经调节剂就像但不同的是-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
certain drugs that adjust neuromodulators, and everyone accepted.
某些调节神经调节剂的药物，每个人都接受了。
So the idea of-
所以这个想法是——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
changing neuromodulators to change conscious experience-
改变神经调节剂来改变意识体验——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and in that altered experience, to be able to achieve neuroplasticity is like a, it's also a big duh.
在这种改变的经历中，能够实现神经可塑性就像，这也是一个很大的废话。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of course it works that way.
当然是这样的。
But six years ago, you'd get fired-
但六年前，你会被解雇-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I know
我知道
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
from a university if you said, "Well, maybe psilocybin could be an interesting compound for depressed people." And by the way, I'm not suggesting everyone run out and take a bunch of psilocybin, especially if you're depressed.
来自大学的如果你说：“好吧，也许裸盖菇素对于抑郁症患者来说可能是一种有趣的化合物。”顺便说一句，我并不是建议每个人都跑出去服用一堆裸盖菇素，尤其是当你感到沮丧时。
But there-
但那里——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah, and not without supervision.
是的，而且不是没有监督。
But if you can get somebody really good at it.
但如果你能找到真正擅长这件事的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I'm not saying do it, either, but I'm not saying don't do it.
我也不是说要这样做，但我也不是说不要这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
And if you're more gun-shy on these things, contact a local university.
如果您对这些事情比较犹豫，请联系当地的大学。
They're likely doing a clinical trial on this.
他们可能正在对此进行临床试验。
We can provide some links to clinical trials.
我们可以提供一些临床试验的链接。
I think the data are incredibly interesting.
我认为这些数据非常有趣。
In any case, I guess the point is that I feel like academia is kind of coming around-
无论如何，我想重点是我觉得学术界正在转变——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
probably due to the suffering of people in it-
可能是因为里面的人们的痛苦——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where then they know somebody who achieved some relief through meditation or some benefits of meditation.
然后他们知道有人通过冥想获得了一些缓解或冥想的一些好处。
So now, everyone, I think, accepts that meditation can be very useful-
所以现在，我想每个人都承认冥想非常有用——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for lowering stress and altering conscious experience.
减轻压力并改变意识体验。
This is not new stuff, as everyone knows.
众所周知，这并不是什么新鲜事。
It's gone back thousands of years.
时间已经追溯到几千年前了。
So it sounds like getting into the capital S self, the compassionate witness, is step number one.
所以听起来，进入大写的S自我，即富有同情心的见证者，是第一步。
And so I just want to make sure that we make clear how one does that.
所以我只是想确保我们清楚如何做到这一点。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Step number one is suffering.
第一个步骤是受苦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
We all have that.
我们都有。
You may have never felt good in your life, listener, but you have suffered, that's for sure.
听众，你的一生可能从未感觉良好，但你确实受过苦。
That's the first noble truth of Buddhism.
这是佛教的第一圣谛。
There is suffering in this life.
此生有苦。
Pay attention to your suffering without fighting it.
关注你的痛苦，而不是与之抗争。
Allow it to be there.
让它存在。
I did this meditation, if something's physically painful or emotionally painful, I used to say, "Let go, let go" to myself.
我做了这个冥想，如果某些事情在身体上或情感上痛苦，我常常对自己说，“放手，放手”。
Didn't work.
没用。
So one day I said, "All right, you can stay." Let it stay.
所以有一天我说：“好吧，你可以留下来。”让它留下来吧。
And so I do a let stay meditation.
所以我进行了静心冥想。
If there's pain, let it stay.
如果有疼痛，就让它留下来吧。
If there's sorrow, let it stay.
如果有悲伤，就让它留下吧。
And as soon as I let it stay, it begins to change.
一旦我让它留下来，它就开始改变。
So the first step is suffering, second step is compassionate attention to one's suffering with no resistance.
所以第一步是受苦，第二步是慈悲地关注自己的痛苦，没有抵抗力。
And the third step is to follow the compassion that is naturally being directed toward that suffering until you find yourself centered in it.
第三步是遵循自然而然地针对这种痛苦的同情心，直到你发现自己处于其中。
And that is a huge relief.
这是一个巨大的解脱。
And I've done this in massive physical pain.
我是在巨大的身体痛苦中做到这一点的。
I've done it when I just lost people I love.
当我刚刚失去我爱的人时我就这么做了。
It's a very powerful, maybe not a panacea, but not that far from it if you can get there.
这是一个非常强大的东西，也许不是万能药，但如果你能做到的话，离它也就不远了。
You're still suffering, but there's a peace that holds the suffering so lovingly that it no longer concerns you.
你仍然在受苦，但有一种平安如此慈爱地承受着痛苦，以至于它不再与你有关。
So on one level, you're suffering, and on a different level, which feels more real to me, there's only peace and compassion and wonder and joy and Somebody asked me once if there's a metaphysical reality, why is there suffering?
所以在一个层面上，你正在受苦，而在另一个层面上，这对我来说更真实，只有和平、同情、惊奇和喜悦，有人问我，如果存在形而上的现实，为什么会有痛苦？
And I just heard coming out of my mouth, "Because the self loves experience and is not afraid to suffer." So it's not afraid.
我只听到从我嘴里说出来：“因为自我喜欢经历，并且不怕受苦。”所以它并不害怕。
So then staying in that is highly motivated by the suffering you feel when you leave.
因此，留下来是因为你离开时所感受到的痛苦。
So to me, that's first step, suffer.
所以对我来说，这是第一步，受苦。
Second step, pay attention to suffering.
第二步，关注痛苦。
Third step, follow compassion to its origin.
第三步，追随慈悲的根源。
Fourth step, never stop doing that.
第四步，永远不要停止这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And every day.
每天。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Every minute.
每分钟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, this is very relevant to me.
是的，这与我非常相关。
I have always wondered about, do you push back against the feeling?
我一直在想，你会抵制这种感觉吗？
Do you live with the feeling?
你生活在这种感觉中吗？
Do you let it amplify?
你让它放大吗？
There's so much contradiction-
矛盾太多了——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
inside of the typical discussion of these kinds of things.
在这类事情的典型讨论中。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's one of the reasons I love your work so much, is that you don't tell people what to do, but you provide paths.
这就是我如此热爱你的工作的原因之一，就是你不告诉人们该做什么，而是提供路径。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hope so.
希望如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, absolutely you do.
是的，你绝对知道。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
I'd like to talk about two things.
我想谈两件事。
Before I came in here, I did a little meditation.
在我来这里之前，我做了一些冥想。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, good.
哦，很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do this before every episode, but today it took only a minute because it came to me so fast, which is the two words that popped to mind were, what's real, what is true?
我在每一集之前都会这样做，但今天只花了一分钟，因为它来得太快了，这就是我脑海中浮现的两个词，什么是真实的，什么是真实的？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think so much of what we're talking about and so much of life is like, what's real, what's true?
我认为我们正在谈论的很多事情以及生活中的很多事情都是这样的，什么是真实的，什么是真实的？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Certainly out in the world, but like in us.
当然在外面的世界，但就像我们一样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What I'm hearing is that at some level, we need to not trust our thinking.
我听到的是，在某种程度上，我们不需要相信我们的想法。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But of course, there are times when we need to trust our thinking.
但当然，有时我们需要相信我们的想法。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then, of course, we're receiving messages about what's real, what's not real, what's true, what's not true, sometimes about us.
然后，当然，我们会收到关于什么是真实的、什么是不真实的、什么是真实的、什么是不真实的信息，有时是关于我们的。
There's all this childhood programming.
这都是童年时期的节目。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How do we start to sort through this?
我们如何开始解决这个问题？
I'm guessing that it has something to do with being in that compassionate witness place.
我猜这与处于那个富有同情心的见证地点有关。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But let's say what you've experienced in your life, I know because you've written and talked about this, and I certainly have now that by some interesting twist of fate, I'm a public-facing person, people saying things about you or about me that are not true.
但是，让我们说一下你一生中经历过的事情，我知道，因为你已经写过并谈论过这一点，而且我现在当然已经知道，由于命运的一些有趣的转折，我是一个面向公众的人，人们对你或我的说法都是不真实的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or that are judgments that don't feel good.
或者说这些判断让人感觉不好。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we are not alone in this.
我们并不孤单。
You don't have to be public-facing in order to experience this.
您不必面向公众才能体验到这一点。
People all the time are being told they are stupid.
人们总是被告知他们是愚蠢的。
Sometimes they're being told they are brilliant, and they know they're not brilliant.
有时他们被告知自己很聪明，但他们知道自己并不聪明。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This can go in every direction.
这可以向各个方向发展。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How are we supposed to hold the narratives, the voices that we hear in our head and outside us in a way that really allows us to be our best essential selves?
我们应该如何以一种真正让我们成为最好的自我的方式来掌握我们在头脑中和外部听到的叙述和声音？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Well, can I reverse it and talk about what's true first?
好吧，我能不能倒过来先说说真实的情况？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Please.
请。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So I remember sitting when I was 17 in the Lamont Library at Harvard, contemplating ending my life and like-
所以我记得当我 17 岁的时候，我坐在哈佛的拉蒙特图书馆，考虑结束我的生命，然后——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Actually ending your life?
真的要结束自己的生命吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yes.
哦，是的。
And looking at the equally miserable scratchings that other teenagers had put in the wood there, and I thought, "Okay, they say the truth will set you free.
看着其他青少年在木头上留下的同样悲惨的划痕，我想，“好吧，他们说真相会让你自由。
All right.
好吧。
I'll give it a try." And I just started trying to find out what was true, and I read through all the works of the greatest philosophers until I got to Immanuel Kant, who says, "Everything is screened through our perceptions, so we can't know that anything is true for certain." And I felt such relief.
我会尝试一下。”我开始试图找出真相，我通读了最伟大哲学家的所有著作，直到读到伊曼努尔·康德，他说：“一切都经过我们的感知筛选，所以我们无法确定任何事情都是真实的。”我感到如释重负。
Okay, I can't intellectually know what's true.
好吧，我理智上无法知道什么是真的。
Then if it's not true, if I can't intellectually know something's true because everything's subjective, what's useful?
那么，如果这不是真的，如果我无法从理智上知道某件事是真的，因为一切都是主观的，那还有什么用呢？
What feels like truth to the body?
对身体来说什么感觉像是真理？
And I was interested that, for example, polygraph machines work because the body hates to lie.
我感兴趣的是，例如，测谎仪之所以起作用，是因为身体讨厌说谎。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It starts to send up a whole bunch of activation of stress systems and puts you in fight or flight and everything when you tell a lie or when you keep a secret.
当你说谎或保守秘密时，它会开始激活大量的压力系统，让你陷入战斗或逃跑等一切。
So I just started thinking, all right, what makes my body contract and weaken, and what makes my body feel peaceful, centered, and grounded?
所以我开始思考，好吧，是什么让我的身体收缩和虚弱，是什么让我的身体感到平静、集中和脚踏实地？
And you do so much work with the body.
你对身体做了很多工作。
I love that you're a brain-body scientist because the body is incredibly wise.
我喜欢你是一位脑身科学家，因为身体非常聪明。
So I just started letting myself test things.
所以我开始让自己测试一些事情。
Like I was raised Mormon, and very Mormon.
就像我是在摩门教长大的，而且非常摩门教。
So, okay, Mormonism.
所以，好吧，摩门教。
Oh, boy, that doesn't make me feel good at all.
哦，孩子，这根本让我感觉不舒服。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It wasn't for you.
这不是给你的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No.
不。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And okay, so God is not a white man who lives near the planet Kolob.
好吧，所以上帝不是住在科洛布星球附近的白人。
Okay, that is not true.
好吧，那不是真的。
Okay, that feels better.
好吧，感觉好多了。
Okay.
好的。
So I started following what made my body relax because my whole body, as I said a few minutes ago, is far more sophisticated, has spent far more time being tinkered with by evolution than my human ability to think in language.
所以我开始关注让我的身体放松的原因，因为正如我几分钟前所说，我的整个身体要复杂得多，比我人类用语言思考的能力花费了更多的时间被进化改造。
So it has a response to truth or falsehood that's more subtle and sophisticated than my intellectual knowledge.
因此，它对真理或谎言的反应比我的智力知识更加微妙和复杂。
That's how I made the decision to keep my son.
于是我就做出了留下儿子的决定。
That's how I've made almost all my decisions.
我几乎所有的决定都是这样做出的。
Does it make my body relax?
它能让我的身体放松吗？
And then does the mind come to the party and make the math work?
然后头脑会来参加聚会并让数学发挥作用吗？
Okay.
好的。
Mormonism says that all the American Indians were descended from a group of Israelites who came across in 600 BC in a boat to the Americas.
摩门教认为，所有美洲印第安人都是一群以色列人的后裔，他们于公元前 600 年乘船来到美洲。
Okay.
好的。
Does the math work?
数学有用吗？
What does the genetic evidence say?
遗传证据表明了什么？
No, they came over the Aleutian Straits and down into the Americas.
不，他们越过阿留申海峡进入美洲。
When I was living in Utah, they excommunicated a DNA expert from the Mormon Church for finding the data that said That Mormonism's claims were wrong.
当我住在犹他州时，他们将一位摩门教的 DNA 专家逐出了教会，因为他发现了表明摩门教的主张是错误的数据。
So something that makes my body relax, where it's also logically coherent.
这是让我的身体放松的东西，而且逻辑上也是连贯的。
That's the first thing.
这是第一件事。
And then what you find is if you really pursue that, what is true?
然后你会发现，如果你真的追求这一点，什么是真实的？
What is true?
什么是真的？
What is true?
什么是真的？
Everything that makes you suffer turns out to have flaws in the logic.
一切让你受苦的事情都证明是逻辑上有缺陷的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Including I will die.
包括我也会死。
Because I can't know.
因为我不知道。
I have no idea.
我不知道。
So to say that I will go out like a candle when my body dies is just as fundamentalist as saying I'm going to go sit on a cloud and play a harp.
所以说，当我的身体死去时，我会像蜡烛一样熄灭，就像说我会坐在云端弹奏竖琴一样，都是原教旨主义者。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Nisargadatta Maharaj, one of my favorite yogis, says, "The only true assertion that the mind can make is I do not know."
我最喜欢的瑜伽士之一尼萨尔加达塔·马哈拉吉 (Nisargadatta Maharaj) 说：“头脑能做出的唯一正确的断言是我不知道。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
But you can feel what feels right to you, so that's what ends up being real.
但你可以感受到对你来说正确的感觉，所以这才是最终的真实。
What's left over when you eliminate all the things that feel deeply untrue to your body and don't make logical sense.
当你消除所有那些对你的身体来说非常不真实、没有逻辑意义的东西时，剩下的是什么。
And some of those are things that our culture's very fond of, like everything has to be measured or it's not real.
其中一些是我们的文化非常喜欢的东西，比如一切都必须被衡量，否则就不是真实的。
Is that true?
这是真的吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
So it sounds like challenging or sitting with doctrine-
所以这听起来像是挑战或坐拥教条-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and labels-
和标签-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and stories that we've heard and that maybe we've internalized, and just-
以及我们听过的故事，也许我们已经内化了，然后-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, we've internalized them, yeah.
哦，我们已经将它们内化了，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, and systematically exploring how those make us feel in our body.
是的，并系统地探索这些让我们的身体感觉如何。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a brief break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Waking Up.
我想短暂休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一“醒来”。
Waking Up is a meditation app that offers hundreds of guided meditation programs, mindfulness trainings, yoga nidra sessions, and more.
Waking Up 是一款冥想应用程序，提供数百个引导冥想计划、正念训练、瑜伽休息课程等。
I started practicing meditation when I was about 15 years old, and it made a profound impact on my life.
我大约15岁的时候开始练习冥想，它对我的生活产生了深远的影响。
And by now, there are thousands of quality peer-reviewed studies that emphasize how useful mindfulness meditation can be for improving our focus, managing stress and anxiety, improving our mood, and much more.
到目前为止，已有数以千计的高质量同行评审研究强调正念冥想对于提高我们的注意力、管理压力和焦虑、改善我们的情绪等等有多么有用。
In recent years, I started using the Waking Up app for my meditations because I find it to be a terrific resource for allowing me to really be consistent with my meditation practice.
近年来，我开始使用“Waking Up”应用程序进行冥想，因为我发现它是一个很棒的资源，可以让我真正坚持我的冥想练习。
Many people start a meditation practice and experience some benefits, but many people also have challenges keeping up with that practice.
许多人开始冥想练习并体验到一些好处，但许多人也面临着跟上练习的挑战。
What I and so many other people love about the Waking Up app is that it has a lot of different meditations to choose from, and those meditations are of different durations.
我和许多其他人喜欢“醒来”应用程序的原因是它有很多不同的冥想可供选择，而且这些冥想的持续时间也不同。
So it makes it very easy to keep up with your meditation practice, both from the perspective of novelty, you never get tired of those meditations.
所以它让你很容易跟上你的冥想练习，无论是从新奇的角度来看，你永远不会厌倦这些冥想。
There's always something new to explore and to learn about yourself and about the effectiveness of meditation.
总有一些新的东西值得探索和了解你自己以及冥想的有效性。
And you can always fit meditation into your schedule, even if you only have two or three minutes per day in which to meditate.
即使您每天只有两到三分钟的时间进行冥想，您也可以随时将冥想纳入您的日程安排中。
I also really like doing yoga nidra, or what is sometimes called non-sleep deep rest, for about 10 or 20 minutes because it is a great way to restore mental and physical vigor without the tiredness that some people experience when they wake up from a conventional nap.
我也非常喜欢做约 10 或 20 分钟的瑜伽休息术，有时也被称为非睡眠深度休息，因为这是恢复精神和身体活力的好方法，而且不会像某些人从传统午睡中醒来时那样感到疲劳。
If you'd like to try the Waking Up app, please go to wakingup.com/huberman, where you can access a free 30-day trial.
如果您想尝试 Waking Up 应用程序，请访问 wakingup.com/huberman，在这里您可以免费试用 30 天。
Again, that's wakingup.com/huberman to access a free 30-day trial.
同样，访问 wakingup.com/huberman 即可获得 30 天免费试用。
I recall the inverse of the perfect day exercise-
我记得完美的一天锻炼的反面——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Ooh
噢
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
was another one that I did, which was like, just call it what it was, it was like the sucky day, like the shitty day, right?
是我做过的另一件事，就像，就这样吧，就像糟糕的一天，就像糟糕的一天，对吧？
Or just where you'd imagine something really terrible, and then how it would cause the body to contract.
或者只是你想象一些非常可怕的事情，然后它会如何导致身体收缩。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And to recognize the other side of the coin.
并认识硬币的另一面。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
And just learning that relationship between the body and thought.
并且只是学习身体和思想之间的关系。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I can say from my own experience that one of the biggest mistakes I ever made was teaching myself to be more resilient to certain forms of stress.
根据我自己的经验，我可以说，我犯过的最大错误之一就是教会自己对某些形式的压力更有弹性。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Really?
真的吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of the worst mistakes I ever made.
我犯过的最严重的错误之一。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Say more.
多说一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And my lab studies stress, and I talk about stress relief and physiological size are a great way to reduce real-time stress, and I stand by that, so I'm not talking about that.
我的实验室研究压力，我谈到缓解压力和生理尺寸是减少实时压力的好方法，我坚持这一点，所以我不是在谈论这一点。
I stand by meditation and saunas and all the things that make us feel-- Vacation-
我支持冥想、桑拿以及所有让我们感受到——假期——的事情
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the things that relax us.
让我们放松的事情。
So I'm not saying the ability to modulate stress is incredibly powerful and useful.
所以我并不是说调节压力的能力非常强大和有用。
I believe that.
我相信这一点。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For sure.
当然。
But, when I was a kid, I wasn't the kid that was going to hold the firecracker till the last second.
但是，当我还是个孩子的时候，我并不是那个会把鞭炮坚持到最后一秒的孩子。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I wasn't the kid that would do the really daring thing.
我不是那个会做真正大胆事情的孩子。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I had friends like that, and I felt kind of sheepish about that.
我有这样的朋友，对此我感到有点羞涩。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Those friends are probably dead by now.
那些朋友现在可能已经死了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're not doing well.
他们过得不好。
That's true.
这是真的。
And I grew up in the then very parent-less community of skateboarders.
我是在当时非常没有父母的滑板社区中长大的。
A lot of us were really wild.
我们很多人都非常疯狂。
We were very free, which I loved-
我们非常自由，我喜欢这一点——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the freedom part.
自由部分。
But there was a lot of mayhem and craziness, especially back then.
但有很多混乱和疯狂，尤其是在那时。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's a beautiful culture.
这是一种美丽的文化。
I'm still friends with a lot of-
我仍然是很多人的朋友-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
those folks.
那些人。
But those cultures, yeah, split off basically into thirds over time.
但随着时间的推移，这些文化基本上分裂成了三部分。
About a third-
大约三分之一——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
dead or in jail, about a third-
死亡或入狱，大约三分之一
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow
哇
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
doing incredibly well personally and professionally-
个人和专业方面都表现得非常出色——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
incredibly well.
非常好。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then a third doing well, but they're not still as ambitious about that.
然后第三个做得很好，但他们对此还没有那么雄心勃勃。
They're more focused on their personal lives-
他们更关注自己的个人生活——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and I hope that's what they want to be doing.
我希望这就是他们想做的事情。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So that's kind of how it broke down.
这就是它崩溃的方式。
But I remember as a young kid, and then in that culture, learning to push myself-
但我记得当我还是个小孩子的时候，然后在那种文化中，学会督促自己——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
past the feeling of like, this is dangerous.
过去喜欢的感觉，这是危险的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To the point where as I got older and my body eventually got stronger, because back then I was always getting hurt, which is why I left that sport.
随着年龄的增长，我的身体最终变得更强，因为那时我总是受伤，这就是我离开这项运动的原因。
Wasn't very good.
不太好。
For the record, wasn't very good.
根据记录，情况不太好。
Good enough, but not where I wanted to be.
足够好，但不是我想要的地方。
That over time, I remember when I started doing science, I realized, this is crazy.
随着时间的推移，我记得当我开始从事科学研究时，我意识到，这太疯狂了。
Skateboarding, you fall, you hurt yourself so badly you can't do it anymore.
玩滑板，你摔倒了，你伤得很重，你再也不能玩了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So badly, yeah
太糟糕了，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That doesn't happen with studying, so I'll just study until I collapse.
学习不会发生这种情况，所以我只会学习，直到我崩溃。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'll just work until I'm sick.
我会一直工作到生病为止。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Been there, done that.
去过那里，做过那件事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like that person down the hall puts in 80 hours, well then, I'll do 100.
就像大厅里那个人投入了 80 个小时，那么，我就投入 100 个小时。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm not a competitive person by nature.
而且我天生就不是一个好胜的人。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh.
哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or even worse, in my- ...
或者更糟糕的是，在我的——...
mid-40s, getting into stupid stuff, like cage exit great white shark diving to the point where I had an air failure.
40 多岁中期，陷入了一些愚蠢的事情，比如笼子出口大白鲨潜水到了我发生空气故障的地步。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh my God.
天哪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this whole thing, and then coming back from that-
整个事情，然后从那件事回来-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh my God
天哪
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and realized, what am I doing?
并意识到，我在做什么？
And what had happened is I learned to override the signals of the body.
发生的事情是我学会了忽略身体的信号。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it was like, when is enough, enough?
就像，什么时候才够呢？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like when the reaper comes.
就像收割者来的时候一样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so I think that if we don't listen to the signals that our body sends-
所以我认为如果我们不倾听我们身体发出的信号-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and we learn to override them repeatedly and systematically, we can place ourselves into real psychological-
当我们学会反复、系统地克服它们时，我们就可以将自己置于真正的心理状态——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
emotional, and physical danger.
情感和身体危险。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I don't know why, I just felt like this was a need-
我不知道为什么，我只是觉得这是一个需要-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to do this in order to grow up.
这样做是为了成长。
And now I try and do the exact opposite.
现在我尝试做完全相反的事情。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then I feel bad.
然后我感觉很糟糕。
I feel kind of lazy.
我感觉有点懒。
I'm like, "Oh, I'm not running at 5:00 a.m." I'm sleeping at 5:00 a.m.
我想，“哦，我不会在凌晨 5:00 跑步。”我早上 5:00 睡觉
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Ah, that's so much cultural flak, bro.
啊，这真是文化上的批评，兄弟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm doing Yoga Nidra at 7:00 a.m.
我早上 7:00 做瑜伽休息术
because I didn't feel I slept enough, and then I have friends in the public-facing health space that are like, they push so hard.
因为我觉得自己睡得不够，然后我在面向公众的健康领域有朋友，他们非常努力。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I know.
我知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm lazy.
我很懒。
And so it can go too far.
所以它可能会走得太远。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Well, we have this culture of push, push, push, produce, produce, produce.
嗯，我们有这种推动、推动、推动、生产、生产、生产的文化。
One of my favorite heroes, along with Oliver Sacks, is Iain McGilchrist at Oxford.
与奥利弗·萨克斯一样，我最喜欢的英雄之一是牛津大学的伊恩·麦吉尔克里斯特。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I love that man.
我爱那个男人。
He may wake up someday just to find me crouched on his bed, watching him sleep.
也许有一天他醒来时会发现我蹲在他的床上，看着他熟睡。
He's not just a neurologist.
他不仅仅是一名神经科医生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Iain, don't be scared.
伊恩，别害怕。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Not in a creepy way.
不是以一种令人毛骨悚然的方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Not in a creepy way.
不是以一种令人毛骨悚然的方式。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Not in a creepy way, sir.
先生，不是以一种令人毛骨悚然的方式。
But he talks about how our particular culture, for the last few hundred years, has veered towards stuff that is preferentially favored by the left hemisphere of the brain, and it has to do with grasping things, and producing physical things, and getting things to happen, controlling them.
但他谈到，在过去的几百年里，我们的特殊文化如何转向左脑优先喜欢的东西，它与抓住事物、产生物质事物、让事物发生、控制它们有关。
Where the right side of the brain, and of course, I'm oversimplifying massively, but functions like meaning, synthesis, combinations of different bits of knowledge, we're moving away from those.
当然，我对右脑的功能进行了过度简化，但其功能如意义、综合、不同知识的组合，我们正在远离这些功能。
And one of my good friends is Jill Bolte Taylor.
我的好朋友之一是吉尔·博尔特·泰勒。
She was a Harvard neuroanatomist, and she had a massive left hemisphere stroke.
她是哈佛大学的神经解剖学家，患有严重的左半球中风。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, right.
哦，对了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And so she suddenly watched her left hemisphere go off.
于是她突然发现自己的左半球突然消失了。
She had a brain bleed, and it would pulse.
她脑部出血，而且会跳动。
So her left hemisphere would be there, and she'd see everything as solid, and measurable, and verbal, and then it would go off, and she was in a world where she was like a fluid the size of the universe.
所以她的左半球会在那里，她会看到一切都是固体的，可测量的，和口头的，然后它就会消失，她就在一个像宇宙大小的流体的世界里。
She was in the shower, and she watched her hand on the tiles dissolve into fields of energy.
她正在淋浴，看着自己放在瓷砖上的手溶解成能量场。
And you were talking about energy earlier.
您之前谈到了能源。
She said, by the time her left hemisphere had shut down completely, she managed to get a phone call made.
她说，当她的左半球完全关闭时，她设法接到了电话。
She couldn't talk by the time the phone call went through.
电话接通时，她已经无法说话了。
She got to a hospital.
她到了医院。
Took her eight years to come back to full functioning.
她花了八年时间才恢复正常功能。
But she said, "During that time, I did not know people's names, I didn't know the word person, but boy, could I feel people's energy." And as she healed, she didn't bother to get rid of her ability to feel people's energy.
但她说：“那段时间，我不知道人的名字，也不知道人这个词，但是天哪，我能感受到人的能量吗？”当她康复时，她并没有费心去摆脱感知人们能量的能力。
So she's a great fan of using the whole brain.
所以她非常喜欢使用整个大脑。
"Whole Brain Living" is her latest book, and it's great.
《全脑生活》是她的最新书，非常棒。
But Iain McGilchrist talks about how when we don't use the whole brain, his book, "The Master and His Emissary," says the part of the brain that knows meaning should be the master, and the data collector is just the emissary.
但伊恩·麦吉尔克里斯特（Iain McGilchrist）谈到，当我们不使用整个大脑时，他的书《大师和他的使者》说，大脑中知道意义的部分应该是主人，而数据收集者只是使者。
But the data collector has taken over in Western society, Western, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic, if you want to get technical.
但数据收集者已经接管了西方社会，西方的、受过教育的、工业化的、富裕的、民主的，如果你想获得技术的话。
And so what you were doing to yourself was completely irrational.
所以你对自己做的事情是完全不合理的。
You should get the Darwin Award for taking yourself out of the gene pool.
你应该因为把自己从基因库中带出来而获得达尔文奖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was the stupidest thing.
这是最愚蠢的事情。
I remember thinking, "What am I doing?" And of course, we used it to get virtual reality for our lab.
我记得当时我在想：“我在做什么？”当然，我们用它来为我们的实验室提供虚拟现实。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Sure, yeah.
当然，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We did a bunch of things that I thought were useful, that we transmuted into studies on stress, and so there was always a purpose and a story that could justify being there.
我们做了很多我认为有用的事情，我们将它们转化为压力研究，因此总有一个目的和一个故事可以证明我们在那里的合理性。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, there is.
哦，有。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And one that was really rooted in goodness and adventure.
这是一个真正植根于善良和冒险的人。
I love adventure, and I'm super curious.
我喜欢冒险，而且好奇心很强。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Well, I think it's cool that you did that.
嗯，我认为你这么做很酷。
I think it's really useful.
我认为这真的很有用。
There are many situations where your ability to do that could be really useful, like a pair of scissors could be really useful, but when you're trying to rediaper the baby, you put the scissors down.
在很多情况下，你这样做的能力可能非常有用，就像一把剪刀可能非常有用，但当你试图给婴儿重新换尿布时，你就把剪刀放下了。
It's a tool that you can use, and it's fascinating.
这是一个你可以使用的工具，而且很有趣。
I did martial arts for eight years, and I loved pushing myself to the point where I was bruised and bleeding, and my doctor thought I was a victim of domestic abuse.
我练了八年武术，我喜欢把自己逼得遍体鳞伤、流血，我的医生认为我是家庭暴力的受害者。
I think it's useful and even fun, but you have to know when your heart's in it and when your heart is not in it, when your self is delighting in the adventure, and when self says, "No, Andrew, peace.
我认为它很有用，甚至很有趣，但你必须知道什么时候你的心在其中，什么时候你的心不在其中，什么时候你的自己在冒险中感到高兴，什么时候自己说：“不，安德鲁，安静。
Be still."
保持安静。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Enough.
够了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
That's a perfect segue, but before I move on, I want to make sure that I link back what you said because I think it's exceptionally valuable about what's real, what's true.
这是一个完美的转折，但在我继续之前，我想确保我链接回你所说的内容，因为我认为它对于真实、真实的事物非常有价值。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So to really evaluate what's true, you need to sit, or maybe one can learn to do this while in motion, and sense within one's body what feels liberating-
因此，要真正评估什么是真实的，你需要坐下来，或者也许一个人可以学会在运动时这样做，并在身体内感受什么是自由的感觉——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and opening, versus what feels contracting.
和开放，与感觉收缩。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
The Buddha used to say, he said this often, that wherever you find the ocean, whatever it looks like, you can know it because the ocean always tastes of salt.
佛陀曾经说过，他经常这样说，无论你在哪里发现海洋，无论它看起来是什么样子，你都可以知道它，因为海洋总是有盐的味道。
And wherever you find awakening or enlightenment, no matter what it looks like, you will know it because it always tastes of freedom.
无论你在哪里发现觉醒或启蒙，无论它看起来是什么样子，你都会知道它，因为它总是自由的味道。
So it's not that you stop suffering, it's that you are free.
所以，并不是你不再受苦，而是你获得了自由。
You are free to interact with your own suffering in a new way, and that is peace.
你可以自由地以一种新的方式与自己的痛苦互动，那就是平静。
So you look for-- And it literally physically affects the body as not free, free.
所以你寻找——它确实对身体产生物理上的影响，因为它不是自由的，自由的。
And if anybody out there listening, go to a really rough time in your life and imagine it.
如果有人在听，请想象一下你生命中最艰难的时刻。
Go to that time in your life when you were pushing yourself, and you can actually remember the tightness in your throat, in your back, it's contracted.
回想一下你生命中强迫自己的那段时间，你实际上可以记得你的喉咙、背部的紧绷感，它收缩了。
And then remember the best moment of your life and what was happening then, and all your muscles will loosen, relax, and open.
然后记住你生命中最美好的时刻以及当时发生的事情，你所有的肌肉都会放松、放松和打开。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And that is my gauge of truth.
这就是我对真理的衡量标准。
Does it set me free?
它让我自由了吗？
The truth sets you free.
真相让你自由。
So whatever sets you free is the truth.
所以任何能让你自由的都是事实。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Then reality's going to start changing for you, with or without psychedelics.
然后，无论有或没有迷幻药，现实都会开始为你改变。
And I remember sitting in the-- I had this overwhelming obsession with meditation when I turned 50, and I just bought this place in the woods in Central California, and I'd go out and sprinkle myself with birdseed and meditate in the forest all day while the chipmunks came and the birds would land on me.
我记得当我 50 岁的时候，我对冥想有着无法抗拒的痴迷，我刚刚在加州中部的树林里买了这个地方，我会出去撒上鸟食，在森林里冥想一整天，而花栗鼠会来，鸟儿会落在我身上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nice.
不错。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, it was amazing.
哦，太棒了。
And about six months into really meditating for hours every day, I kind of had an experience like Jill Bolte Taylor in the shower where I was in the forest with the chipmunks and the birds, and then it was just light.
大约六个月后，每天进行数小时的真正冥想，我有点像吉尔·博尔特·泰勒（Jill Bolte Taylor）在淋浴时的经历，我在森林里与花栗鼠和鸟儿在一起，然后天就亮了。
And it was like, it was so startling, it was like I'd fallen off a cliff.
就好像，这太令人震惊了，就像我从悬崖上掉下来一样。
I couldn't see the ground.
我看不到地面。
And then everything was back.
然后一切都回来了。
And then it started happening a lot.
然后它开始发生很多。
And I read in shamanic traditions, they call this experience stopping the world, and it can happen through the guidance of a shaman or a plant or whatever.
我在萨满教传统中读到，他们称之为“阻止世界”的体验，它可以通过萨满或植物或其他什么的指导来实现。
It was happening to me through meditation.
这是通过冥想发生在我身上的。
And in that space of light, which I stopped fearing after a while, it looked as if this thing we're doing now is a video game.
在那个光的空间里，过了一会儿我就不再害怕了，看起来我们现在正在做的事情就像是一个电子游戏。
And if you and I were sitting and playing a video game, you would choose a character, I would choose a character, you'd stab me with a sword, I'd hit you with a mace, and we would say, "You are hurting me.
如果你和我坐在一起玩电子游戏，你会选择一个角色，我会选择一个角色，你会用剑刺我，我会用狼牙棒打你，我们会说，“你伤害了我。
You are killing me." But really we'd be talking about characters in a video game.
你正在杀了我。”但实际上我们谈论的是电子游戏中的角色。
And then somebody would come say, "Let's go get lunch." And we would put it down and go stop stabbing each other and be friends.
然后有人会过来说：“我们去吃午饭吧。”我们会放下它，停止互相刺伤，成为朋友。
It feels to me as if this is more like a game than reality, the whole physical everything.
在我看来，这更像是一场游戏，而不是现实，整个物理的一切。
And I call this you me, and you call that me, and I call it you.
我称这个你为我，你称那个我，我称它为你。
And when the game stops, however that happens, there's a level of reality as different from this one as a video game is from three-dimensional life.
当游戏停止时，无论发生什么情况，现实都会有一定程度的不同，就像电子游戏与三维生活的不同一样。
There's a world outside the cave.
洞外还有一个世界。
And I don't know what it is, and I may be wrong.
我不知道那是什么，我可能是错的。
I don't care.
我不在乎。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love it.
我喜欢它。
I'm going to mention Rick Rubin again.
我要再次提到里克·鲁宾。
A few years back, I called him up and I just said, "Rick, you're not going to believe this." And I relayed to him a story about someone that I knew really well and this very just kind of wild set of discoveries that someone else had unearthed about their life being completely different than it had been presented, and their business failed.
几年前，我打电话给他，我只是说：“里克，你不会相信这一点。”我向他转述了一个关于我非常熟悉的人的故事，以及其他人发现的一系列疯狂的发现，他们的生活与所呈现的完全不同，他们的生意失败了。
The whole thing just collapsed.
整个事情就这样崩溃了。
And Rick just wrote back, he said, "Back to nature, the only truth."
里克刚刚回信说，“回归自然，唯一的真理。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's very Rick.
这非常瑞克。
That's how he talks.
他就是这样说话的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
See, that makes my body relax.
看，这让我的身体放松了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Well, actually, sorry, it was preceded by, I said, "Did you read this?
嗯，实际上，抱歉，在这之前，我说，“你读过这个吗？
Did you see this?
你看到这个了吗？
I can't believe this," and I know this person really well, and I can't-- like for a very long time, and he just said, "It's all lies."
我简直不敢相信，”我真的很了解这个人，而且我很长一段时间都不能相信，他只是说，“这都是谎言。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"Back to nature, the only truth."
“回归自然，才是唯一的真理。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yes.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that just got tattooed in my brain.
这已经深深地印在了我的脑海里。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because so much of what we see, and the shock, and like I can't believe it, and I think he was referring to something similar.
因为我们看到了太多的东西，令人震惊，我简直不敢相信，我认为他指的是类似的东西。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He also has said, and you're going to get a kick out of this, I think, so Rick loves professional wrestling.
他还说过，我想你会从中得到乐趣，所以里克喜欢职业摔跤。
He watches 10 hours a week-
他每周看10个小时——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, my goodness
哦，我的天哪
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of professional wrestling.
职业摔跤。
Why?
为什么？
Well, first of all, he believes that it's the only thing that humans have created that's real.
嗯，首先，他相信这是人类创造的唯一真实的东西。
Why?
为什么？
Because everyone agrees that it's not real.
因为每个人都同意这不是真的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It's fake.
这是假的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's fake.
这是假的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that he likes that no one gets hurt.
他希望没有人受到伤害。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, people actually can get hurt, but that no one's trying to actually hurt the other person.
我的意思是，人们实际上可能会受到伤害，但没有人试图真正伤害对方。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're collaborating in this kind of Shakespearean dance that they do.
他们正在合作表演这种莎士比亚舞蹈。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you have the different characters, and so I went to see professional wrestling with Rick thinking, like, "What am I doing here?"
你有不同的性格，所以我去看职业摔跤，瑞克想，“我在这里做什么？”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, my goodness.
哦，天哪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was loud, and the flames, and all this.
声音很大，还有火焰，等等。
Not a scene I would normally take myself to on a Friday.
我通常不会在周五看到这样的场景。
And it was so much fun.
这真是太有趣了。
Mostly because of how delighted Rick was-
主要是因为瑞克有多高兴——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, I love that
哦，我喜欢那个
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in seeing it, and his son as well.
看到它，他的儿子也看到了。
So we can distinguish or really identify what's true through this practice.
所以我们可以通过这种实践来区分或真正识别什么是真实的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
As close as we can.
尽可能接近。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For us.
对于我们来说。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
We can't ever know completely what's true.
我们永远不可能完全知道什么是真实的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For us, right.
对我们来说，是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
The whole Baconian method is accept nothing until it's proven true.
整个培根方法是在被证明正确之前不接受任何内容。
Well, we can't prove anything true.
好吧，我们无法证明任何事情都是真实的。
We could all be dreaming this.
我们都可能梦想着这个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So I decided that I would accept everything until I'm convinced that it's false.
所以我决定接受一切，直到我确信它是假的。
So I don't really believe anything, but I'm willing to-
所以我什么都不相信，但我愿意——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like a scientist.
就像一个科学家。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I don't believe anything because nothing can be absolutely proven.
我什么都不相信，因为没有什么可以绝对证明的。
But I do know what's most useful to me, what makes me healthy.
但我确实知道什么对我最有用，什么让我健康。
I've had a really, really sick, weak body most of my life, and it became a big part of my navigational system.
我一生中大部分时间的身体都非常非常虚弱，它成了我导航系统的重要组成部分。
I now think I have the MCAS, mast cell activation syndrome.
我现在认为我患有 MCAS，即肥大细胞激活综合征。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You put out a podcast on that.
你为此发布了一个播客。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
My daughter's been diagnosed with it.
我女儿被诊断出患有此病。
I probably have it.
我可能有。
And it's just this weird random thing where you get symptoms in different parts of your body.
这就是一种奇怪的随机现象，你身体的不同部位都会出现症状。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's overactive immune system.
这是免疫系统过度活跃。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It'll protect you from cancer.
它会保护您免受癌症侵害。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Does it really?
真的吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, it turns out that people that run more towards autoimmune conditions-
好吧，事实证明，人们更容易患上自身免疫性疾病——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like people who have skin conditions that are autoimmune-based, have fewer skin cancers.
就像患有自身免疫性皮肤病的人患皮肤癌的几率较低一样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yay.
耶。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because the immune system is combating all these invaders.
因为免疫系统正在对抗所有这些入侵者。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
It curates everything.
它策划一切。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there's a...
所以有一个...
Yeah, if there's an upside, I mean, this is the basis of a lot of the logic related to immunotherapies for cancers, is trying-
是的，如果有好处的话，我的意思是，这是与癌症免疫疗法相关的许多逻辑的基础，正在尝试-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to have the immune system fight off these mutations that are always occurring in the background.
让免疫系统抵抗这些总是在后台发生的突变。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow.
哇。
Super cool.
超级酷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I'm not trying to take away-
所以我并不是想夺走-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Anyway
无论如何
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
from the suffering it's created, but that's an upside.
免受它所造成的痛苦，但这是一个好处。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah, and my mother had it, and I just wish she had lived to see the diagnosis even exist.
是的，我母亲也得了这种病，我只希望她能活着看到诊断结果的存在。
But my daughter called me from England the other day, and we were talking about the fact that she has that diagnosis.
但有一天我女儿从英国给我打电话，我们正在谈论她患有这种诊断的事实。
And she said "I am allergic to my own goddamn emotions." And I was like, "Yeah, we both are." And my whole journey has been really, really accelerated by the fact that if I go off true for myself, emotionally, psychologically, metaphysically, whatever, I immediately get physical symptoms of some kind.
她说：“我对自己该死的情绪过敏。”我当时想，“是的，我们都是。”我的整个旅程真的非常非常加速，因为如果我在情感上、心理上、形而上学上或任何方面都忠于自己，我会立即出现某种身体症状。
But when I am true to myself, they all subside, and I get this unbelievable health.
但当我忠于自己时，这些烦恼都会消退，我会获得令人难以置信的健康。
So I've been told that I had five different progressive incurable diseases.
所以我被告知我患有五种不同的进行性不治之症。
I don't have any symptoms, but if I allow myself to be untrue to myself, if I allow myself to get out of integrity, I suffer intensely and immediately and in a very real way.
我没有任何症状，但如果我允许自己对自己不真实，如果我允许自己失去正直，我会立即、以一种非常真实的方式遭受强烈的痛苦。
So I don't know what's true, but I know what keeps me healthy, and I know what feels like freedom.
所以我不知道真相是什么，但我知道是什么让我保持健康，我知道什么是自由的感觉。
And if I hit a thought like, there is nothing to us but physical matter, and it feels like tension, like when I put down my dog and I felt something go through me as she died.
如果我想到这样的想法，除了物质之外，我们什么都没有，感觉就像紧张，就像当我放下我的狗时，当她死时，我感觉到有什么东西穿过我。
It was like, I don't know whether that I was feeling something that was real, but that's as close to the truth as I can get.
就像，我不知道我是否感受到了真实的东西，但这已经是我能得到的最接近事实的了。
And if I...
而如果我...
See, right now, what's happening to me, I'm getting into this self thing, and as I'm talking about this dog, I feel that dog.
看看，现在，发生在我身上的事情，我正在陷入自我的事情，当我谈论这只狗时，我感觉到那只狗。
And I can feel...
而且我能感觉到...
I'm going to sound crazy.
我听起来会很疯狂。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, not if you're talking about dogs and feeling.
不，如果你谈论的是狗和感觉，那就不是了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I know, right?
我知道，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You might make me cry because I'm thinking about-
你可能会让我哭泣，因为我在想——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Because I-
因为我——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, because I think I can sense it.
不，因为我想我能感觉到。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think I can sense it.
我想我能感觉到。
And forgive me if I'm now sounding totally crazy.
如果我现在听起来完全疯了，请原谅我。
If anyone's listening, I will say, and I'm just going to be blunt, I got a lot of training in neuroscience.
如果有人在听，我会说，我只是直言不讳，我接受过很多神经科学方面的培训。
I got decades of training in it.
我在这方面接受了数十年的训练。
And I'll tell you, the notion of energy is not mysterious at all.
我告诉你，能量的概念一点也不神秘。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, neurons are electricity and chemical exchange.
我的意思是，神经元进行电力和化学交换。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that happens locally, and it happens at a distance.
这既发生在本地，也发生在远处。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Our phones are electronic circuits that communicate at a distance.
我们的电话是远距离通信的电子电路。
We are electronic circuits.
我们是电子电路。
Why shouldn't we communicate at a distance?
为什么我们不能远距离交流？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's right.
没错。
And the really forward-thinking neuroscientists are starting to put multiple people into scanners and- ...
真正有远见的神经科学家开始将多个人放入扫描仪中，然后……
putting people in scanners in different locations.
将人们放在不同位置的扫描仪中。
And I know it sounds like people are going to go, "Oh, no, what are you talking about?
我知道听起来人们会说：“哦，不，你在说什么？
This is like spoon-bending stuff." No. The idea that thought and emotion at one location can impact thought and location-
这就像勺子弯曲的东西。”不。认为一个地方的思想和情感可以影响思想和位置的想法-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in another one, is that magnetoreception has been-
另一方面，磁感受已经——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
published in the journal "Science."
发表在《科学》杂志上。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we're not outside the bounds of reality.
所以我们并没有脱离现实。
We are actually finally, as a field, starting to acknowledge that this stuff exists-
事实上，作为一个领域，我们终于开始承认这个东西的存在——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and starting to poke and prod around in there.
并开始在那里戳戳戳戳。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But people have known about this.
但人们已经知道了这一点。
So for you, the sensing of your dog passing, or you can feel them present?
那么对于你来说，你的狗经过的感觉，或者你能感觉到它们的存在吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
My dog was a physical entity, but my dog was also an energetic entity, and that entity was something I could feel.
我的狗是一个物理实体，但我的狗也是一个能量实体，而那个实体是我能感觉到的。
And this is, I don't know how many, a couple of years later, I start talking about that dog.
我不知道多少年后，我开始谈论那只狗。
I feel it again.
我又感觉到了。
Okay, so when I was pregnant with my son, Adam, one of the big reasons I chose to keep the baby is that from the moment he was conceived, I started having experiences that completely blew apart my understanding of reality.
好吧，当我怀上我的儿子亚当时，我选择留下这个孩子的一大原因是，从他怀孕的那一刻起，我开始经历完全颠覆我对现实的理解的经历。
My husband at the time was traveling in Asia a lot, and when I would think about him, it would happen a lot at night for me, I'd be lying in bed, and I would think about him, and it would be daytime in Asia, and I would suddenly be in a three-dimensional movie where I'd be walking down a street in Japan or flying over a thunderstorm in an airplane, and I'd see these very specific things.
当时我的丈夫经常在亚洲旅行，当我想起他时，这对我来说经常发生在晚上，我躺在床上，我会想起他，当时是亚洲的白天，我会突然置身于一部三维电影中，我走在日本的街道上，或者乘坐飞机飞过雷暴，我会看到这些非常具体的东西。
Very specific.
非常具体。
And then he would call me the next day and say, "Oh, I was walking down this street in Japan, and I saw this very specific banner, and I flew over a thunderstorm, and the lightning was amazing." And I started to realize I was picking up information that he was seeing.
然后第二天他会打电话给我说：“哦，我走在日本的这条街上，我看到了这个非常具体的横幅，我飞过雷暴雨，闪电真是太棒了。”我开始意识到我正在获取他所看到的信息。
And it was testable.
而且它是可测试的。
It kept happening.
它一直在发生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So what is that?
那么那是什么？
It would have been so non-scientific of me to say, "That is completely insignificant.
如果我说：“这完全是微不足道的，那就太不科学了。
Don't pay any attention." It just was too weird.
别太在意。”实在是太奇怪了。
And so that's when I decided I'll believe anything until I'm convinced it's false.
所以就在那时我决定我会相信任何事情，直到我确信它是错误的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And that throws your whole mind open to understanding the universe as being far more mysterious than our culture likes to say it is.
这会让你敞开心扉，去理解宇宙远比我们的文化所说的神秘得多。
And yes, there's a danger of getting woo-woo and crazy, but as I said, the math has to work too, and you're just telling us how the neurophysics of energy are being tested and shown to be operative.
是的，存在着变得疯狂的危险，但正如我所说，数学也必须起作用，而你只是告诉我们能量的神经物理学如何被测试并被证明是有效的。
It's not woo-woo.
这不是呜呜。
It's just at the outside edge of what our culture is willing to accept.
它只是处于我们的文化愿意接受的外部边缘。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, and the instruments we have to measure things are just not there yet.
是的，我们用来测量事物的仪器还没有出现。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But the same was said about Most everything that has been-
但同样的说法也适用于大多数已经发生过的事情——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
clearly discovered and is rock solid over the last 50 plus years-
明显被发现，并且在过去 50 多年里坚如磐石——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
at least in neuroscience.
至少在神经科学领域是如此。
I can't help but just briefly share, when I put Costello down, because I did that myself-
当我放下科斯特洛时，我忍不住简单地分享一下，因为我自己就是这么做的——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Aw
噢
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
which sucked.
这很糟糕。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh.
哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
But I didn't want-
但我不想——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Damn
该死的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the vets, they came to the house.
兽医，他们来到了房子里。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh.
哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it was at home, and I was right there.
但那是在家里，而我就在那里。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I didn't do the injection.
我没有注射。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Okay, good.
好的，很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. Originally, I thought I would, because unfortunately, because of my previous job, I had to do that a number of times.
不，本来我以为我会的，因为不幸的是，因为我之前的工作，我不得不这样做很多次。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That's, ooh.
就是这样，哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That is not an accident.
这并非偶然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. But what was interesting is, he let out a big like, sigh right there at the end.
不。但有趣的是，最后他发出了一声大大的叹息。
But the wildest part of it was, and I swear it sounds like I'm making this up, but at the moment he went, I felt my heart heat up.
但最疯狂的部分是，我发誓这听起来像是我编造的，但在他走的那一刻，我感到我的心在发热。
I thought I was going to be crushed, like a broken heart.
我以为我会被压垮，就像一颗破碎的心。
And I swear, it felt as if he was giving me all this energy back.
我发誓，感觉就像他把所有的能量都给了我。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow.
哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's because I had been spending so much time.
这是因为我花了很多时间。
He was up in the middle of the night a lot.
他经常半夜起床。
He must have had some dementia or that kind of thing.
他肯定患有某种痴呆症或类似的疾病。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I had that dog on everything.
我所有的东西上都养着那只狗。
I was injecting him with testosterone-
我正在给他注射睾丸激素-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh
噢
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for the last part.
对于最后一部分。
Made him a lot healthier, folks.
伙计们，让他变得更健康了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh.
哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Don't let your dog breed indiscriminately.
不要让你的狗随意繁殖。
But I've got my theories about all this stuff in hormones and animals that a lot of the vets are aligned with me on this one.
但我对荷尔蒙和动物的所有这些东西都有自己的理论，很多兽医在这一点上都同意我的观点。
Talk to your vet.
和你的兽医谈谈。
Talk to a progressive vet.
与进步的兽医交谈。
I had him on a bunch of different drugs.
我让他服用了多种不同的药物。
He was really unhappy.
他真的很不高兴。
It was the right thing to do.
这是正确的做法。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And, I'll stop talking about it because I'll get too worked up.
而且，我会停止谈论它，因为我会变得太激动。
Forgive me.
对不起。
But that feeling, it was like whoa, and I can still feel it.
但那种感觉，就像哇，我仍然能感觉到。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like he gave something back that now-
就像他现在回馈了一些东西一样——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I think enough time's passed, I go get another dog.
我想时间已经过去了，我去再养一只狗。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was almost like, oh, here's all this resource-
几乎就像，哦，这就是所有这些资源-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and like gratitude.
并喜欢感恩。
And so these things sound kind of woo, right?
这些东西听起来很吸引人，对吧？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Could you do an experiment where you put me in the lab while I go through that?
你能做一个实验，让我在实验室里让我经历这个吗？
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Well-
嗯-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Would you see huge physiological changes?
你会看到巨大的生理变化吗？
Sure.
当然。
I don't see the point of that kind of experiment, because I think enough people have experienced these kinds of things-
我不明白这种实验的意义，因为我认为已经有足够多的人经历过这些事情了——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that it's not necessary.
没有必要。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In any case, I want to talk about integrity and your book-
无论如何，我想谈谈诚信和你的书——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
"Way of Integrity."
《诚信之道》。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You ran a very interesting experiment-
你做了一个非常有趣的实验——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that frankly, it's going to sound a little scary to some people, and maybe re-
坦率地说，这对某些人来说听起来有点可怕，也许会重新-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
They don't have to do it
他们不必这样做
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and maybe reflexive to other people, which is, I think it was one year-
也许对其他人来说是一种条件反射，也就是说，我认为那是一年——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of no lying.
没有说谎。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But like, no lying of any kind.
但就像，没有任何形式的谎言。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not even to yourself.
甚至对你自己也不行。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And-
还有——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Especially not to myself.
尤其不是对我自己。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
right.
对。
And previously on the podcast, we had my colleague, Dr. Anna Lembke, who runs our dual diagnosis addiction clinic.
之前在播客上，我们有我的同事安娜·莱姆克博士，她负责经营我们的双重诊断成瘾诊所。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
She's done a tremendous service to the world, talking about all the various kinds of addiction.
她为世界做出了巨大的贡献，谈论了各种各样的成瘾问题。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Addiction as a disease, yes, but also something that people can overcome.
是的，成瘾是一种疾病，但也是人们可以克服的。
And one of the things that I love so much about Anna's message, she wrote the book "Dopamine Nation." But-
我非常喜欢安娜传达的信息的一件事是，她写了《多巴胺国家》一书。但是——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, I love that book.
哦，我喜欢那本书。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, wonderful book...
是的，很棒的书...
is she talks about how recovered addicts are actually her heroes-
她是在谈论康复的瘾君子实际上是她的英雄吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because they've learned to navigate this internal process that-
因为他们已经学会了如何驾驭这个内部流程——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
most people, perhaps who aren't addicts or don't think they are, are constantly being yanked around by these dopamine systems.
大多数人，也许不是成瘾者或认为自己不是成瘾者，都不断地被这些多巴胺系统拉扯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Huh.
呵呵。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But they've learned to conquer their own dopamine system.
但他们已经学会了征服自己的多巴胺系统。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, they represent the heroes of her world.
所以，他们代表了她世界的英雄。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I love that model, because we tend to look at addicts and think about as like, there's all this judgment on it.
我喜欢这个模型，因为我们倾向于看待成瘾者并思考，对它有所有这些判断。
But-
但是——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No, I think it's amazing.
不，我觉得这太神奇了。
I think addicts are people who are hypersensitive to the suffering that they are told to accept, and so they're trying to medicate the suffering that comes from being out of integrity, and the society says...
我认为成瘾者是对他们被告知要接受的痛苦高度敏感的人，所以他们试图治疗因不正直而带来的痛苦，社会说……
I talked to people, I interviewed people for this book who would go to their-- This one woman went with her husband to the psychiatrist, and they said, "She's not happy doing the traditional wife role." And they sat there and talked about what medication would enable her to fulfill this social role that she just didn't like.
我和人们交谈过，我为这本书采访了一些人，他们会去看他们的——这个女人和她的丈夫一起去看精神科医生，他们说，“她不喜欢扮演传统的妻子角色。”他们坐在那里讨论什么药物可以帮助她履行她不喜欢的社会角色。
It never occurred to anybody to say, "Maybe don't do it-
从来没有人会说：“也许不要这样做——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
if you don't like it that much." And people are medicating themselves into a conformity with social systems that are not in line with their true nature.
如果你不太喜欢它的话。”人们正在自我治疗，以适应与他们的真实本性不符的社会制度。
And addicts hurt, and they sometimes, they find a substance, or they find an activity that gives them relief, and so they use it because they're in a lot of pain.
成瘾者会受到伤害，有时他们会找到一种物质，或者找到一种可以减轻他们痛苦的活动，所以他们使用它是因为他们感到非常痛苦。
And one-
还有一——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Until it becomes the source of pain.
直到它成为痛苦的根源。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And it always does, and it's horrible.
而且总是这样，而且很可怕。
But one addiction specialist I know says it's like they're standing on a nail and trying to take enough drugs to stop the pain.
但我认识的一位成瘾专家说，这就像他们站在钉子上，试图服用足够的药物来止痛。
But that is not what you need to do when you're standing on a nail.
但当你站在钉子上时，这不是你需要做的。
You need to take the nail out.
你需要把钉子拔掉。
And the nail is the part of your life that you're living that's out of integrity with your true nature because other people want you to live that way.
钉子是你生活中与你的真实本性不相符的部分，因为其他人希望你那样生活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And they will force themselves.
他们会强迫自己。
They want to stay in the position of pain or fear, push past it, be stronger.
他们想要留在痛苦或恐惧的位置，克服它，变得更坚强。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I've spent a lot of my life there, I'll confess, and it's super unpleasant, and it's always led to like shitty things.
是的，我在那里度过了很多时光，我承认，这非常不愉快，而且总是会导致一些糟糕的事情。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
But how-
但如何——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You know?
你知道吗？
So that-
那么——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
How laudable is it that you took what the culture told you was good, and by God, you learned to do it
你接受了文化告诉你的好的东西，而上帝啊，你学会了这样做，这是多么值得称赞的事情
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we tell ourselves stories like, "Well, if we achieve certain things, then we'll be in a better position to do more for other people." Like, there's the martyrdom version of it, too.
我们告诉自己这样的故事：“好吧，如果我们取得了某些成就，那么我们就能更好地为他人做更多事情。”就像，还有殉难版本。
The reason I brought up Anna was she was the first to alert me to these studies that have been done about how myelination and growth of the prefrontal cortex is actually accelerated when people tell the truth-
我提起安娜的原因是她是第一个提醒我注意这些研究的人，这些研究表明当人们说真话时，前额皮质的髓鞘形成和生长实际上是如何加速的——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Huh
呵呵
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
especially around truths that are somewhat uncomfortable.
尤其是那些让人有些不舒服的事实。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's a beautiful literature that's small, but starting to really emerge.
这是一部美丽的文学作品，虽然规模很小，但已经开始真正出现。
Yeah.
是的。
And a big part of the recovery from addiction is people first acknowledging the truth to themselves-
从成瘾中恢复的一个重要部分是人们首先向自己承认真相——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then to other people.
然后再给其他人。
And again, All of that's kind of shrouded by how we think about addicts.
再说一遍，所有这些都被我们对成瘾者的看法所掩盖。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sadly, in any major city, and even small towns now, you can see the bent over-
可悲的是，现在在任何大城市，甚至小城镇，你都可以看到弯腰的人——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
fentanyl addicts, and we judge.
芬太尼成瘾者，我们判断。
We're like, "Oh," or we say, "It's so sad" or-
我们就像，“哦，”或者我们说，“这太悲伤了”或者-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but that's just an example of how far gone people can get in that particular-
但这只是一个例子，说明人们在这一方面可以走多远——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
addiction.
成瘾。
Ana offers an interesting idea, which is that the more we tell these little micro-truths, the more connected to reality we are.
安娜提出了一个有趣的想法，那就是我们告诉这些微观事实的越多，我们与现实的联系就越紧密。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And in "The Way of Integrity," you talk about this experiment that you did.
在《诚信之路》中，您谈到了您所做的这个实验。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
My first integrity cleanse.
我的第一次诚信净化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
An integrity cleanse.
诚信净化。
So maybe you could explain what it is, and it sounds incredibly scary.
所以也许你可以解释一下它是什么，这听起来非常可怕。
It's not just the telling the truth part, it's the realizing the truth part.
这不仅仅是说真话的部分，更是实现真话的部分。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I guess I'm going to start with the woo story.
我想我要从吴的故事开始。
I was very sick, and at one point they rushed me into surgery, didn't know what was wrong with me.
我病得很重，有一次他们急忙把我送进手术室，不知道我出了什么问题。
I had some internal bleeding going on.
我有一些内出血。
That's a long story.
这是一个很长的故事。
Wrote about it in another book.
在另一本书里写到了。
Point is, during the surgery, I regained consciousness and sat up and looked at them operating on me, which was surprising-
重点是，在手术过程中，我恢复了意识，坐了起来，看着他们给我做手术，这很令人惊讶——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whoa
哇哦
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
because I was lying down there, and so I was very disconcerted, and I lay back down and I looked up between the surgical lights, and between them appeared this ball of light that was much, much, much brighter than the surgical lights, which are very bright.
因为我躺在那里，所以我非常不安，我躺回去，我在手术灯之间抬头看，在它们之间出现了这个光球，它比手术灯亮得多，多得多，多得多，手术灯非常亮。
And it was so beautiful.
它是如此美丽。
You can't describe it.
你无法描述它。
It's outside the cave, and I was just completely obsessed by it, and then it started to grow, and when it touched me, and it filled things, it didn't bounce off things, it filled them.
它在洞穴外面，我完全被它迷住了，然后它开始长大，当它接触到我时，它充满了东西，它没有从东西上反弹，而是充满了它们。
When it touched me, this incredible joy and love and warmth flooded my body, and I started to cry, and my body was crying, and the surgeons noticed these tears coming out of my eyes, and they freaked out because they thought that I was feeling the surgery, and crying was the only thing I could do about it.
当它触碰我时，这种难以置信的喜悦、爱和温暖淹没了我的身体，我开始哭泣，我的身体在哭泣，外科医生注意到这些泪水从我的眼睛里流出来，他们吓坏了，因为他们认为我感受到了手术，而哭泣是我唯一能做的。
So they were panicking, and the anesthesiologist, they told him, "Bump up the medication." Later, because I grilled him later, "What did you give me?
所以他们很恐慌，麻醉师告诉他，“加点药物。”后来因为我后来拷问他，“你给了我什么？
What are the side effects?
有什么副作用？
What happens?
会发生什么？
Can I have some more?" He said afterward that when he went to increase the medication, he said a voice said to him, "Don't.
我可以再要一些吗？”他后来说，当他去加药时，有一个声音对他说：“不要。
She's crying because she's happy." And he said, "I just did what it said." And he was white and shaking and he said, "Did I do the right thing?" So I kind of told him a little of the story.
她哭是因为她很高兴。”他说：“我只是按照上面说的做了。”他脸色苍白，浑身发抖，他说：“我做对了吗？”所以我告诉了他一些故事。
Anyway, this light was there.
无论如何，这道光是存在的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wild.
狂野。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And I was just like, "Home, home, home." And it said, "Yeah, okay, so this is what you really are, and you're about to have a pretty tough time for a while.
我当时就想，“回家，回家，回家。”它说：“是的，好吧，这就是你真正的样子，你将要经历一段相当艰难的时期。
But just remember, I'm always here, even though you can't see me." And so I came out of that surgery and I thought, "I will not allow anything to my life that doesn't feel like that light." It wasn't like it used language, but it said, "This is not the way you feel after you die.
但请记住，我一直都在这里，即使你看不到我。”当我从手术中出来时，我想：“我不会允许我的生活中出现任何感觉不像那光的东西。”它不像是用语言，而是说：“这不是你死后的感觉。
This is the way you're supposed to learn to feel all the time.
这就是你应该学会一直感受的方式。
So in your body, out of your body, doesn't matter.
所以在你的身体里，在你的身体外，都不重要。
This is how you're meant to feel." And believe me, when I worked with heroin addicts, they would describe their first high, and it was as close to that as anything I'd heard people describe.
这就是你应该有的感觉。”相信我，当我与海洛因成瘾者一起工作时，他们会描述他们的第一次高潮，这与我听到的人们描述的任何东西都很接近。
And I would say, "I believe you're meant to feel that way, and also keep your teeth."
我会说，“我相信你应该有这样的感觉，并且也要咬紧牙关。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So I didn't tell a lie for a year.
就这样，我一年没有说谎。
I came out of it and I thought, "Well, lying is definitely not going to feel like that.
当我走出困境时，我想：“好吧，说谎绝对不会有那样的感觉。
That light does not lie." So no lies ever.
那光不会说谎。”所以从来没有谎言。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of any kind, even the little micro-
任何种类，即使是微小的
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Of any kind
任何种类
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like, "When are you going to be home?" And you know it's 12 minutes and you say 10.
比如，“你什么时候回家？”你知道现在是 12 分钟，但你说 10 分钟。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Can't say that.
不能这么说。
Have to say 12.
不得不说12
"Do you like my outfit?" "No, I do not." I found ways to, I would sort of try to soften the truth.
“你喜欢我的穿搭吗？” “不，我不。”我找到了方法，我会尝试软化事实。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Did it mean also telling every truth that was in your head?
这是否意味着也说出你脑海中的每一个真相？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or you would keep certain things to yourself?
或者你会把某些事情留给自己？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No, in fact, it felt untrue to say certain things to certain people.
不，事实上，对某些人说某些事情感觉不真实。
It felt invasive or offensive, and that didn't feel true.
这让人感觉有侵略性或冒犯性，但那感觉并不真实。
Sometimes silence was the greatest truth I could tell, but I didn't even know that that was the case until I started my experiment.
有时沉默是我能说出的最大真相，但直到我开始实验之前我什至不知道事实如此。
So I did not lie for that year, and I've done it many, many times since.
所以那一年我没有撒谎，从那以后我已经做过很多很多次了。
But I would not recommend jumping into it 100% from a life that hasn't already been pretty examined.
但我不建议百分百地从尚未经过仔细审视的生活中跳入其中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What Ana has said, and I think in the backdrop of what you're saying, is that everybody does these little micro adjustments or-
安娜所说的，我认为在你所说的背景下，每个人都会做这些微小的调整，或者-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Constantly
不断地
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
constantly.
不断地。
And you've said that this is largely to smooth social interactions.
你也说过这主要是为了让社交互动更加顺畅。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That most of lying is to smooth social interactions.
大多数谎言都是为了让社交互动更加顺畅。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah, the research shows that most people lie at least three times within 10 minutes of meeting another person.
是的，研究表明大多数人在见到另一个人后 10 分钟内至少撒谎 3 次。
They lie to them.
他们对他们撒谎。
And men are socially conditioned to tell lies that make them seem a little bit cooler than they maybe think they are for real, and women, people identified as women, are socialized to tell lies that make other people feel good about themselves.
男人在社会上习惯于说谎，让自己看起来比他们想象的更酷，而女人，被认为是女性的人，在社会上习惯于说谎，让别人自我感觉良好。
So it takes you in different directions, but I just wasn't going to tell any lie at all.
所以它会把你带到不同的方向，但我根本不想说任何谎言。
And let me just say that that year, I could say I lost these things, but the fact is I dropped them.
我只想说，那一年，我可以说我失去了这些东西，但事实是我丢掉了它们。
I walked away from them.
我离开了他们。
My religion.
我的宗教信仰。
With the religion went the family of origin.
随着宗教的消失，原生家庭也随之消失。
Every friend I had growing up, because to leave Mormonism is worse than murder in that community.
我成长过程中遇到的每一位朋友，因为离开摩门教在那个社区比谋杀更糟糕。
I was cast into outer darkness.
我被扔进外面的黑暗里。
My marriage, realized I was gay.
我的婚姻，意识到我是同性恋。
Oops.
哎呀。
I hadn't figured that out at 29.
29岁的时候我还没想到这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That came to you as a realization in that year?
那一年你就意识到了这一点？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It must have been in your- Unconscious someplace prior.
它一定是在你无意识之前的某个地方。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There'd never been a-
从来没有过——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Sort of, but I was-
有点像，但我当时——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There'd never been a kind of like, "Knock, knock.
从来没有这样的声音，“敲门，敲门。
Hey." No.
嘿。”不。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No, I was so bent on being a good person according to my socialization, the same way you were bent on being a brave, strong male according to the skateboarding culture.
不，根据我的社会化，我一心想成为一个好人，就像根据滑板文化，你一心想成为一个勇敢、坚强的男性一样。
I would never have let that anywhere near my consciousness, and it had to be a series of experiences.
我永远不会让它接近我的意识，它必须是一系列的经历。
And my ex-husband was gay as well, so I'd known that about him for a while.
我的前夫也是同性恋，所以我知道他这一点已经有一段时间了。
And I knew he was his best self when he was his gay self.
我知道当他是同性恋的时候，他就是最好的自己。
So, that kind of helped, but the marriage ended because of that.
所以，这有点帮助，但婚姻却因此结束了。
Let's see, what else happened?
让我们看看，还发生了什么？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
I quit academia, so my industry, the thing I'd gone to all those years of school for, my job, means of support.
我退出了学术界，退出了我的行业，退出了我多年来上学的目的，我的工作，谋生手段。
I was living in Utah at the time, and I sort of fled for the border, so I lost my home.
当时我住在犹他州，我逃到了边境，所以我失去了家。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How were you feeling during this time?
这段时间你感觉如何？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Better and better and better.
越来越好，越来越好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sorry, I just-- I expected you to be like, "It was horrible." You're like, "No, better and better."
抱歉，我只是——我希望你会说，“这太可怕了。”你会说，“不，越来越好。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It kind of was-
有点像-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
but not as horrible as staying in all those things.
但并不比留在所有这些事情中那么可怕。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the part that intrigues me at the moment is the losing of friends.
目前让我感兴趣的是失去朋友。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like, losing of people and the structures that we relied on also for safety.
就像失去人员和我们赖以安全的建筑物一样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's got to be hard.
那一定很难。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, it's very-- Yeah, for parts of the psyche that are very attached to socialization and attached to people that are familiar to you, it's heartbreaking.
哦，这非常——是的，对于那些非常依赖社交和熟悉的人的心灵来说，这是令人心碎的。
Really heartbreaking.
真是令人心碎。
But that light gave me a full-on experience of the self and what it told me was it's always there.
但那盏灯给了我对自我的全面体验，它告诉我它永远在那里。
My son, who has Down syndrome, one day told me, after his friend's mother died, we were coming home from the funeral, and he said, "I didn't cry." And I said, "It's okay if you cried.
我患有唐氏综合症的儿子有一天告诉我，他朋友的母亲去世后，我们参加完葬礼回家，他说：“我没有哭。”我说：“如果你哭了也没关系。
Strong men cry, and this is a sad time." And he said, "It's not as hard after the light comes and opens your heart." And he can barely talk, and so it was very garbled and I was like, "What?
坚强的人会哭泣，这是一个悲伤的时刻。”他说：“当光明到来并打开你的心之后，一切就不再那么困难了。”他几乎不能说话，所以内容非常混乱，我当时想，“什么？
A light came and opened your heart?" He said, "Mm-hmm." I said, "Well, when did this happen?" He said, "May 10th." I was like, "This year?" "No. I was 13."
一道光降临，打开了你的心扉？”他说：“嗯嗯。”我说：“嗯，这是什么时候发生的？”他说：“5月10日。”我当时想，“今年？” “不。我当时13岁。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And I was like, "You're holding out on me." So this light had appeared in his room when he was having a really hard time.
我当时想，“你在拖延我。”所以，当他过得很艰难的时候，这道光就出现在了他的房间里。
Kids with Down syndrome don't have easy lives, and it touched his heart, and he said since then, nothing was as hard.
患有唐氏综合症的孩子的生活并不轻松，这触动了他的心，他说从那时起，没有什么比这更艰难了。
And I said, "You know, I saw it, too, and it said to me that it's always with us even though we can't see it." And he said, "Oh, I can see it." And I was like, "You can?" And he was like, "Yeah." Like, he was sort of disappointed in me.
我说：“你知道，我也看到了它，它对我说，即使我们看不到它，它总是和我们在一起。”他说：“哦，我能看到。”我当时想，“你可以吗？”他说：“是的。”比如说，他对我有点失望。
And I said, "Well, where is it?
我说：“那么，它在哪里？
Is it like up there, down here in your head, in your heart?" And he just looked at me and he said, "Mom, it's everywhere." He just sees the whole world illuminated, and I think that's what I saw in the forest when suddenly the world would just turn to light.
是不是就像在你的头上、下面、你的心里一样？”他只是看着我说：“妈妈，它无处不在。”他看到整个世界都被照亮了，我想这就是我在森林里看到的，突然间世界就变成了光明。
It was that light.
就是那道光。
So that was the field, and as I lost each friendship, as I lost each job, as I faced the fear and the heartbreak and everything, those parts of me were dissolving, and I was becoming more identified with that light.
这就是这个领域，当我失去每一份友谊，当我失去每一份工作，当我面对恐惧、心碎和一切，我的那些部分正在溶解，我变得更加认同那道光。
And that was the thing.
就是这样。
It was completely selfish.
这完全是自私的。
I was not going back to the way I felt before I felt that light.
我不会再回到感受到那种光明之前的感觉了。
Never going back there.
永远不会回到那里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Did you feel as if you had to accomplish certain things, degrees, et cetera, first in order to allow yourself this?
你是否觉得自己必须首先完成某些事情、学位等等，才能让自己做到这一点？
Because I hear this a lot.
因为我经常听到这样的说法。
And in the backdrop of this entire conversation, I have one little piece of neural real estate which is devoted to the audience that is saying, "Okay, I can do these things once I have a job, once I have blank-"
在整个对话的背景下，我有一小块神经地产专门向观众说，“好吧，一旦我找到工作，一旦我有空白——”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
once I have the resources." But at the same time, I do want to highlight for people that everything that we've talked about in terms of practices and things to do-
一旦我拥有了资源。”但与此同时，我确实想向人们强调，我们在实践和要做的事情方面所讨论的一切——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like, you just do them.
就像，你就做它们。
There's no purchase.
没有代购啊
It's inside of us.
它就在我们的内心。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's no looking to something-
没有什么要找的——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in a package or in even a program.
在一个包甚至一个程序中。
It's all within us.
这一切都在我们之内。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it can be done at really anywhere and with any-
所以它实际上可以在任何地方、用任何人来完成——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
amount of resources or lack thereof.
资源数量或缺乏。
But-
但是——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
But be gentle with yourself.
但要对自己温柔一点。
Don't quit your jo-- I mean, I was very violent.
不要放弃你的工作——我的意思是，我非常暴力。
I was quite a lot like you.
我很像你。
The way I got into Harvard was I had a part of myself called Fang that did not care what hurt me.
我进入哈佛的方式是我自己的一部分叫方，他不在乎什么伤害了我。
I'd go running in the snow.
我会在雪地里奔跑。
I remember once I bought running shoes that were too small, and all my toenails came off during that run, and I just kept running.
我记得有一次我买了太小的跑鞋，跑的时候脚趾甲都掉了，我就继续跑。
And I'd stop and take off another toenail and keep running.
我会停下来，取下另一个脚趾甲并继续跑步。
I was able to be very brutal to myself.
我对自己非常残酷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just living in Boston is brutal to me.
仅仅住在波士顿对我来说就很残酷。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Well, on the plus side, my feet were completely numb because of the cold, so.
好吧，从好的方面来说，我的脚因为寒冷而完全麻木了，所以。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Okay, there's that.
好的，就是这样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
But-
但是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So you have the capacity for extreme resilience.
所以你有极强的恢复能力。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it perhaps took you too far.
也许你已经走得太远了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah, and I think that's why I did this massive integrity cleanse when I was at a place where I was far, far away from my true self, and because of that, it was a kind of violent breaking of connections.
是的，我想这就是为什么当我在一个远离真实自我的地方时，我进行了大规模的完整性净化，正因为如此，这是一种暴力的联系破坏。
So now if I'm coaching somebody, I'm like, "Be very gentle." I call it one-degree turns.
所以现在如果我在指导某人，我会说，“要非常温柔。”我称之为一度转弯。
If you're flying a plane, and you turn one degree north every half hour, you won't even notice it's turning, but you'll end up someplace very different.
如果你驾驶飞机，每半小时向北转向一度，你甚至不会注意到它在转向，但你最终会到达一个非常不同的地方。
So just gently move away from what causes you to suffer.
因此，只需轻轻地远离那些让你受苦的事物即可。
Get yourself the hot cup of tea in the morning to soothe your throat.
早上给自己喝杯热茶来舒缓喉咙。
Listen to your own sorrow Cancel a meeting because you just don't feel like doing it.
倾听你自己的悲伤 取消会议，因为你只是不想这样做。
These are the things that bring you back to your truth, and it's always loving.
这些事情会让你回到你的真相，而它总是充满爱的。
And it's not loving necessarily to just say, "I'm going to say the truth about everything, and I don't care who hates me for it."
仅仅说“我会说出所有事情的真相，我不在乎谁因此而恨我”，这并不一定是爱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That was just my way.
这就是我的方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And inevitably, a much kinder, more generous version of ourselves emerges when we're living our truth.
当我们实践自己的真理时，不可避免地会出现一个更友善、更慷慨的自己。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a foregone conclusion, but still worth stating.
这已成定局，但仍然值得一提。
Yeah, I can personally say that most of my suffering has been the consequence of the fact that I love love.
是的，我个人可以说，我大部分的痛苦都是因为我热爱爱情。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And, I'm blessed with many great friends and things of that sort, business partners, et cetera.
而且，我很幸运有很多好朋友和类似的人、商业伙伴等等。
But I have a tendency to get into relationships quickly-
但我有快速建立关系的倾向-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and ending them feels near impossible.
结束它们感觉几乎是不可能的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh.
哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this has caused me and, and also others, too much suffering.
这给我和其他人带来了太多的痛苦。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so a lot of that is, the reason I raise this is that, it's about holding two truths at the same time-
所以，我提出这个问题的原因很多是，它是关于同时持有两个真理——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
which feel incompatible.
感觉不兼容。
On the one hand, really loving and caring about someone.
一方面，真正爱和关心某人。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And at the same time, knowing that the loving-
同时，知道有爱的人——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It's not going to work
这是行不通的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
caring thing to do is to go separate ways.
关心的事情就是分道扬镳。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's this relationship to loss that I sort of can't accept-
正是这种与失去的关系让我有点无法接受——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or haven't been able to.
或者一直没能做到。
I can accept that people die.
我可以接受人会死。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All three of my academic advisors, wonderful people, suicide, cancer, cancer.
我的三位学术顾问，都是很棒的人，自杀，癌症，癌症。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oof.
噢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I had to come to the conclusion pretty early on in my academic career like, "Wow, I'm the common denominator." I joke.
因此，我必须在学术生涯的早期就得出这样的结论：“哇，我是共同点。”我开玩笑。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow.
哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it took me a long time to realize, this might not be my fault.
我花了很长时间才意识到，这可能不是我的错。
I know it's crazy.
我知道这很疯狂。
How would that-
那怎么会——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I think that it also woke me up to the idea, life as we know it in this life ends, and so to try and make the most of it.
但我认为这也唤醒了我这样一个想法：我们所知道的生命在这一生就结束了，所以要努力充分利用它。
But the idea that people would move apart-
但人们会分开的想法-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
even in circumstances where death doesn't separate them-
即使在死亡无法将他们分开的情况下——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to me, it's so painful.
对我来说，这太痛苦了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Was it Keats who said that, "Of all the ways there are to lose a person, death is the kindest?"
济慈是否曾说过：“在失去一个人的所有方式中，死亡是最仁慈的？”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Like that.
就这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
And this has roots in all sorts of things in me, of course, but the reason I raise it is that I think that when we have two incompatible truths-
当然，这根源于我身上的各种事情，但我提出这个问题的原因是，我认为当我们有两个不相容的真理时——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that's when we feel stuck.
那就是我们感到被困住的时候。
Like we love people, we want to take care of them.
就像我们爱人一样，我们想要照顾他们。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe we want them to remain in our lives, but we have to, like the letting go process-
也许我们希望它们留在我们的生活中，但我们必须这样做，就像放手的过程一样——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah, well-
是的，好吧-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
sucks
糟透了
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
there can't be incompatible truths.
不可能有不相容的真理。
I think what happens is that you, and just tell me where I'm wrong, okay?
我想发生的事情是你，告诉我我哪里错了，好吗？
I could be completely full of crap.
我可能完全是废话。
It sounds to me like you're one of the people who have a huge heart, who sometimes confuse love with self-abandonment.
在我看来，你是一个拥有宽广胸怀的人，有时会将爱与自我放弃混为一谈。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Who loves so deeply that you want the joy of the beloved more than you want your own joy.
谁爱得如此深，以至于你想要所爱之人的快乐胜过你想要自己的快乐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
100%.
100%。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And that is not love.
那不是爱。
That is a hostage situation, okay?
这是人质劫持的情况，好吗？
There's something I call spider love.
有一种东西我称之为蜘蛛之爱。
If you say to a spider, "How do you feel about flies?" It would say, "Oh, I love them." And it expresses that love by immobilizing them, wrapping them up, and injecting them with poison, and then sucking out their life force whenever it needs them.
如果你对蜘蛛说：“你对苍蝇有什么感觉？”它会说：“哦，我爱他们。”它通过固定他们、包裹他们、注射毒药、然后在需要时吸出他们的生命力来表达这种爱。
And it loves those flies.
它喜欢那些苍蝇。
Yum.
嗯。
But love always sets the beloved free, okay?
但爱总是让所爱的人自由，好吗？
So there's a consumptive love, and when you are a fly and you meet a spider, and you give your whole self to this person who goes, "Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, I really want that," you find yourself starved of your own validation, your kindness to your true self, and you've given it all to the other person, and that's when it will not work.
因此，有一种消耗性的爱，当你是一只苍蝇，遇到一只蜘蛛，你把你的整个自我给了这个人，他说：“嗯，嗯，嗯，嗯，嗯，我真的想要那个，”你发现自己缺乏对自己的认可，缺乏对真实自我的善意，而你已经把这一切都给了对方，那就是行不通的时候。
And you may be missing the people who aren't looking for flies or who want to just, I'm not going to extend this metaphor any further, who just want to be with you as a whole human, who want to know what your limitations are as well as their own.
你可能会错过那些不寻找苍蝇的人，或者那些只想寻找苍蝇的人，我不会进一步扩展这个比喻，他们只是想和你作为一个完整的人在一起，他们想知道你的局限性以及他们自己的局限性。
Who will say to you, I have a new friend who, I had pneumonia, and I wanted to talk to her on the phone, and I told my assistant, "I don't care if I have pneumonia." And she wrote me a text, and she said, "Do not impinge on your own health because you want me to feel loved.
谁会对你说，我有一个新朋友，我得了肺炎，我想和她通电话，我告诉我的助理，“我不在乎我是否得了肺炎。”她给我写了一条短信，她说：“不要因为想让我感到被爱而影响你自己的健康。
I don't like it.
我不喜欢它。
I want you to be healthy." And I was like, "Well, whew." So I would examine the moment where you become so entranced with another that you stop caring about yourself and try to feed your whole life to them, because that is not love.
我希望你健康。”我当时想，“好吧，哇。”所以我会审视一下你对另一个人如此着迷以至于你不再关心自己并试图将你的一生都奉献给他们的那一刻，因为那不是爱。
It's just something our culture defines as love.
这就是我们的文化所定义的爱。
A lot of parents love their children that way, but you have to be able to know exactly what you want, to communicate to the other person, and to have them say, "I completely respect that." Or you don't have a love situation, you have codependency.
很多父母都这样爱他们的孩子，但你必须能够确切地知道自己想要什么，与对方沟通，并让他们说：“我完全尊重这一点。”或者你没有爱情状况，你有相互依赖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
That's very useful.
这非常有用。
Thank you, and I know it will be very useful to many people.
谢谢，我知道这对很多人来说都非常有用。
What is the suggestion for people that are trying to figure out what they want or need or both?
对于那些试图弄清楚自己想要什么或需要什么或两者兼而有之的人有什么建议？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I'll relate it to this relationship thing because it applies across everything, but it's hardest in relationships.
我将把它与关系这件事联系起来，因为它适用于所有事情，但在关系中最难。
And that is, start to notice the first moment when part of you, a deep part of you, knew you were losing your thread, you were losing your integrity.
也就是说，开始注意到你的一部分，你内心深处的那一刻，你知道你正在失去你的线索，你正在失去你的正直。
So if you think about a relationship you had that ended poorly, where you loved the other person by giving your whole self to them, which you've been taught is called love, even though I don't think it is called love.
所以，如果你想想一段结局很糟糕的关系，你通过把自己的整个自我奉献给对方来爱对方，你被教导的这就是爱，尽管我不认为这叫做爱。
So and then- Look back on the first moment that she wanted something and you abandoned yourself to give it to her.
那么然后——回想一下她想要某样东西的第一刻，而你却放弃了自己把它给了她。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And it's usually very early in the relationship.
而且通常是在关系的早期阶段。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Like day one.
就像第一天一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it's like, "This isn't safe."
是的，就像“这不安全”。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
And you just crushed right over that boundary, that very sensitive inner vigilance that's saying, "This is how we stay whole, Andrea.
你就冲破了那个界限，那种非常敏感的内在警惕性在说：“这就是我们保持完整的方式，安德里亚。
This is how we stay in integrity." So most people with a job, with a relationship, with any choice they make, they can trace it back.
这就是我们保持诚信的方式。”因此，大多数有工作、有人际关系、做出任何选择的人都可以追溯。
When I pick up the pieces for them years later, they're like, "Oh, that, I knew that the first week, and I stayed in there for 20 years." So it's about, as I said earlier, being really granular in your experience of your own suffering and knowing that you are not here to suffer.
几年后，当我为他们捡起这些碎片时，他们会说，“哦，那个，我第一周就知道了，我在那里呆了 20 年。”所以，正如我之前所说，重要的是要真正细致地体验自己的痛苦，并知道自己不是来受苦的。
There's this big thing that men in our society are taught, there are love songs like, I can't remember his name, he won the Nobel Prize for literature, "I would crawl down the avenue black and blue to show my love, to make you feel my love." And it's like, okay, that's not showing me love.
我们社会里的男人都被教导着这样一件大事，有一些情歌，比如，我记不起他的名字了，他获得了诺贝尔文学奖，“我会沿着遍体鳞伤的大道爬行，以表达我的爱，让你感受到我的爱。”就好像，好吧，这并不是在向我表达爱。
You don't have to hurt yourself to show me love.
你不必伤害自己来向我表达爱。
But maybe that's why you have to pull back six inches from your own eyes to brutalize yourself for other people, that martyr archetype.
但也许这就是为什么你必须把自己的眼睛拉开六英寸，才能为了别人而残酷地对待自己，那就是烈士原型。
It's, no, it doesn't work.
是的，不，这不起作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it's caused me, and I think others, a lot of suffering because I think what ends up happening is that when we get separation from that person, then we do a little bit of self-recovery-
是的，这给我以及其他人带来了很多痛苦，因为我认为最终发生的事情是，当我们与那个人分离时，我们会做一些自我恢复-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but then it's all fractured.
但随后一切都支离破碎了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And repeat.
并重复。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And repeat, right, exactly.
重复一遍，对，完全一样。
What you just described is extremely helpful.
您刚才描述的内容非常有帮助。
I'm curious, in your role as a coach to many people-
我很好奇，你作为很多人的教练的角色——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
how often are romantic relationships, partnership type things-
浪漫关系、伙伴关系类型的事情多久发生一次——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
whatever form that takes for people, how often is that the bulk of what people struggle with?
无论人们采取什么形式，人们有多少时候会面临这样的困境？
At least in terms of what they bring to the table.
至少就他们带来的东西而言是这样。
Or is it more often, "I don't like my job, I'm in the wrong life professionally." If you had to give us the non-peer-reviewed study, but kind of crude breakdown.
或者更常见的是，“我不喜欢我的工作，我的职业生活是错误的。”如果您必须向我们提供未经同行评审的研究，但有点粗略的细分。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I think because they identify me as a coach, they go to a therapist with relationship things, but people come to me with, "My life's just not working." That feeling you were describing.
我认为因为他们认为我是一名教练，所以他们会去找治疗师处理人际关系问题，但人们来找我时会说：“我的生活不正常。”你所描述的那种感觉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like the whole thing.
就像整件事一样。
Oh, great.
哦，太好了。
Nice.
不错。
So they give you the whole thing.
所以他们给你整件事。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah, the whole thing is not working.
是的，整个事情都不起作用。
But in my job, I need to change my job, I need to get my purpose, I need to have my life's meaning.
但在我的工作中，我需要改变我的工作，我需要找到我的目标，我需要有我生命的意义。
And it always ends up ending up to be about the relationship as well.
它最终也总是与关系有关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Anybody, anything we do that's dysfunctional for any part of ourselves is dysfunctional for every part of ourselves.
任何人、我们所做的任何事情如果对我们自己的任何部分来说都是功能失调的，那么对我们自己的每个部分来说也是功能失调的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
The way we do anything is the way we do everything.
我们做任何事情的方式就是我们做每件事的方式。
So if you come in with a job issue because you've got a horrible boss but you never complain, you're going to end up telling me that you're in a horrible marriage with a spouse who's awful, but you never complain.
因此，如果你遇到工作问题，因为你的老板很糟糕，但你从不抱怨，那么你最终会告诉我，你的婚姻很糟糕，配偶很糟糕，但你从不抱怨。
The same issues come forward as a kind of gift to show us over and over, not that way.
同样的问题作为一种礼物不断地向我们展示，但不是那样。
No. Okay.
不，好吧。
See that pattern?
看到那个图案了吗？
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
See that pattern?
看到那个图案了吗？
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, it's interesting that you say that because I feel like professionally, it's like there's a gravitational pull.
嗯，你这么说很有趣，因为我觉得从专业角度来说，就像有一种引力。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I wanted to get into tropical fish when I was a kid, and I was like, "Tropical fish, tropical..." I would spend all day at the tropical fish store.
当我还是个孩子的时候，我就想接触热带鱼，我就想，“热带鱼，热带……”我会在热带鱼店待上一整天。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Then it was birds.
然后是鸟。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Then it was skateboarding.
然后是滑板。
Then I wanted to be a firefighter, whatever.
然后我想成为一名消防员，无论如何。
Eventually, it was neuroscience, then it was podcasting.
最终，它是神经科学，然后是播客。
It's just like I can't miss.
就好像我不能错过一样。
When I say that, I mean I can't keep myself from doing what I really want.
当我这么说时，我的意思是我无法阻止自己做我真正想做的事。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I would say likewise with friendships, I'm fortunate to have a great relationship to my biological family.
我想说，对于友谊来说，我很幸运能够与我的亲生家庭保持良好的关系。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was really rocky for a lot of years, but it's like-
多年来确实很坎坷，但就像-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Cool
酷
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the work has paid off.
工作已经得到回报。
And they've done a lot of work.
他们已经做了很多工作。
In romantic partnership, it's like a carve-out.
在浪漫的伴侣关系中，这就像一个分离的过程。
It's been much more challenging.
这更具挑战性。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Huh.
呵呵。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've had some amazing partners and partnerships.
我有一些很棒的合作伙伴和伙伴关系。
Like amazing.
就像神奇的一样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm still on excellent terms with many of them.
我和他们中的许多人仍然保持着良好的关系。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then I've had some really, really brutal, like barbed wire-
然后我经历了一些非常非常残酷的事情，比如铁丝网——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, gnarly
哦，粗糙
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
just like...
就像...
And I've had to take a look at my role in that, too, right?
我也必须审视自己在其中所扮演的角色，对吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So in this case, for me, it's like a carve-out.
所以在这种情况下，对我来说，这就像一个剥离。
I think of it as like this-
我认为它是这样的——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm
嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
wedge shape carve-out.
楔形雕刻。
It just seems so much more challenging.
这似乎更具挑战性。
But I think in talking with you today, it's clear that it's because of this thing of like, I'm not approaching it from the standpoint of like, I want to do this and it's good for me-
但我认为在今天与你交谈时，很明显这是因为这样的事情，我不是从这样的角度来处理它，我想做这件事，这对我有好处-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to be frank.
坦白说。
Whereas in the work domain, it's like what feels good ends up being really good for me.
而在工作领域，感觉良好的事情最终对我来说真的很有好处。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Because for a while you did things that hurt you, and then you realized, "No, the things that hurt me, I'm not going to do that.
因为有一段时间你做了伤害你的事情，然后你意识到，“不，伤害我的事情，我不会那样做。
I'm going to do the things I like." When you bring another human being into it, when it's a romantic partnership, I think you still have the pattern of I will do things that hurt me.
我会做我喜欢的事情。”当你把另一个人带入其中时，当这是一段浪漫的伙伴关系时，我认为你仍然有我会做伤害我的事情的模式。
I will abandon my sense of safety.
我会放弃我的安全感。
I will go over my own experienced internal boundary, and you've done it in other areas of your life, but this is, yeah, this is a big one for you, where you just haven't applied the same wisdom you've learned in other areas, and I would guess that it's because you don't feel that that's loving to the other person.
我会回顾我自己经历过的内部界限，你在生活的其他领域也做到了这一点，但这对你来说是一个大问题，你只是没有应用你在其他领域学到的同样的智慧，我猜这是因为你不觉得那是对另一个人的爱。
If you decide you're not going to kill animals at your job, the people at your lab aren't going to be heartbroken.
如果你决定不在工作中杀死动物，你实验室的人就不会伤心欲绝。
But if you decide you don't want to live a certain kind of life with another person, that person's heart could get broken.
但如果你决定不想和另一个人一起过某种生活，那个人的心可能会破碎。
Or at least they could feel that way.
或者至少他们可以有这样的感觉。
They could genuinely feel pain.
他们能真正感受到痛苦。
So I think maybe that's why it's a cut-out thing, because changing your job doesn't hurt someone, but changing your relationship pattern, somebody could get hurt, and If you don't change your pattern, someone will also get hurt.
所以我想也许这就是为什么这是一件被剪掉的事情，因为改变你的工作不会伤害某人，但改变你的关系模式，有人可能会受到伤害，如果你不改变你的模式，某人也会受到伤害。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Well, and that's often the case, right?
嗯，这种情况经常发生，对吧？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So this notion of others getting hurt when we make the choice that's most in line with our own integrity-
因此，当我们做出最符合我们自己诚信的选择时，其他人就会受到伤害——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
whether it's relationship or family or the decision to move or leave a job, how do you sit with that?
无论是关系、家庭还是搬家或离职的决定，你如何看待？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, gosh.
哦，天哪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How does one sit with that?
人们如何看待这一点？
I think I have clearly internalized some script that says if someone else is really upset, even-
我想我已经清楚地内化了一些脚本，该脚本说如果其他人真的很沮丧，甚至-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and obviously the right thing is often not the thing that makes people feel best, et cetera.
显然，正确的事情往往不是让人们感觉最好的事情，等等。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But how do you work with that?
但你如何处理这个问题呢？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So there are different ways of reframing it, and one example, since you know a lot about addiction, if somebody is addicted to you pleasing them, you're pleasing them and going out of your integrity to please them, to give them whatever they want that pleases them.
因此，有不同的方式来重新定义它，举个例子，因为你对成瘾了解很多，如果有人对你取悦他们上瘾，你就是在取悦他们，并出于正直去取悦他们，给他们任何他们想要的取悦他们的东西。
Your addiction as a codependent is giving them that emotional energy, whatever gets them high.
作为一个相互依赖者，你的成瘾会给他们带来情感能量，无论什么能让他们兴奋。
And their absorption of that energy and the imbalance that results, it's as if they are getting high on you.
他们对能量的吸收以及由此产生的不平衡，就好像他们对你很着迷。
And an alcoholic, if you take away the bottle of booze, will tell you, "You are hurting me.
一个酒鬼，如果你拿走那瓶酒，他会告诉你：“你伤害了我。
This is the worst thing you could ever do to me.
这是你对我做过的最糟糕的事情。
You have no idea how much I'm suffering." And the thing you have to do in an intervention is, "No, it's the alcohol that's doing the hurting.
你不知道我有多痛苦。”而你在干预中必须做的是，“不，是酒精造成了伤害。
It's the over-giving.
这就是过度的给予。
It's allowing someone to consume your energy and to get high on it.
它允许某人消耗你的能量并为此而兴奋。
That is an addiction.
那是一种瘾。
I will not let you do it.
我不会让你这么做的。
I will separate from you, person to person, if you continue in your addictive pattern." Doesn't mean that we won't be together in the great self and that we're all one self and we can all love each other forever, but it is not kind to feed someone's addiction to eating your energy.
如果你继续你的上瘾模式，我会和你分开，一个人一个人地分开。”这并不意味着我们不会在伟大的自我中在一起，我们都是一个自我，我们都可以永远彼此相爱，但助长某人对吞噬你的能量的上瘾并不是善意的。
Does that make sense?
这有道理吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You have to do some tough love.
你必须做一些严厉的爱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
The compassionate thing is to do-
富有同情心的事情是——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the right thing.
正确的事情。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
"This is not helping you." And they say, "But I want more of you," and you say, "No. No, you really don't.
“这对你没有帮助。”他们说，“但我想要更多”，你说，“不。不，你真的不知道。
You want something false I was creating for you, and it's actually not me." My friends who, "Why would you leave the church?
你想要我为你创造的一些虚假的东西，但它实际上不是我。”我的朋友们，“你为什么要离开教会？
Now you're lost to us." And I was like, "No, I was always a gay non-Mormon.
现在我们迷失了你。”我当时想，“不，我一直是一个非摩门教徒的同性恋。
I was just feeding you the story that I was a straight Mormon girl, and I can't feed you that anymore.
我只是在告诉你我是一个摩门教异性恋女孩的故事，我不能再告诉你这个了。
It's making you sick, it's making me sick.
它让你生病，也让我生病。
It's not true." And some of them I never saw again, and some of them came around years later and said, "Oh, I figured it out." And some probably still are really happy and think I'm going to hell.
这不是真的。”有些人我再也没有见过，有些人几年后出现并说：“哦，我明白了。”有些人可能仍然很高兴，认为我会下地狱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sorry, I didn't mean to laugh at that, but I did.
抱歉，我不是故意笑的，但我确实笑了。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I find it hilarious.
我觉得很搞笑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sorry.
抱歉。
Not sorry.
不抱歉。
No, no. Just nothing to do but laugh there.
不，不。没什么可做的，只是在那里笑。
Goodness.
善良。
Yeah, I think this notion of things ending because we realized that we were telling lies.
是的，我认为事情结束的想法是因为我们意识到我们在说谎。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And gosh, it even hurts to say.
天哪，说起来甚至很伤人。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like because we weren't trying to tell lies.
这就像因为我们不想说谎。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We didn't know we were telling lies.
我们不知道我们在说谎。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It's an innocent mistake.
这是一个无心的错误。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To me, that often grows from what I think of as empathy.
对我来说，这通常源于我所认为的同理心。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Certainly not the best form of empathy.
当然不是最好的同理心形式。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I think that there's a human phenotype that I'm familiar with where we feel other people's emotions, which I think is healthy.
但我认为有一种我熟悉的人类表型，我们可以感受到他人的情绪，我认为这是健康的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Can be healthy.
可以健康。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we love seeing people enjoy.
我们喜欢看到人们享受。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we delight in it, so it feels good to us-
我们对此感到高兴，所以我们感觉很好-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to feed this addiction.
来满足这种瘾。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, I know the feeling.
哦，我知道这种感觉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like, "Oh, here I am martyrdom, like I'm bleeding out." But it's not in line with this essential self.
就像是，“哦，我在这里殉道，就像我在流血一样。”但这并不符合这个本质的自我。
And here, I guess the little vignette that's related to this is that I do think there's one very healthy form of this-
在这里，我想与此相关的小插曲是我确实认为有一种非常健康的形式 -
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
which is, I believe, at least for me, with a dog, I like other animals too, but with a dog, when we love them-
我相信，至少对我来说，和狗在一起，我也喜欢其他动物，但和狗在一起，当我们爱它们时——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
we are seamlessly attached to their love of us.
我们与他们对我们的爱有着天衣无缝的依恋。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so loving them and empathizing with them means double the love.
因此，爱他们并同情他们意味着加倍的爱。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We love them and we can feel their love and it just feels like a perfect circle.
我们爱他们，我们可以感受到他们的爱，感觉就像一个完美的圆圈。
And with people, that can happen, too, I imagine.
我想，对于人来说，这也可能发生。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes, it can.
是的，可以。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've felt that a few times.
我已经有过几次这样的感觉了。
I certainly feel that in my friendships.
我在友谊中确实感受到了这一点。
I feel that with my sister.
我和姐姐也有这样的感觉。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I've felt it in a few of my romantic relationships.
我在一些恋爱关系中也感受到了这一点。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But the empathy for the other's pleasure-
但对他人快乐的同情心——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
can go too far.
可以走得太远。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then when we, quote-unquote, "lose ourselves," I think it's because there's a component of ourselves that's not attached to the part that still has our own needs.
然后，当我们，引用-不引用，“迷失自己”时，我认为这是因为我们自己的一部分没有依附于仍然有我们自己的需求的部分。
Does that resonate?
这引起共鸣吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, totally, yeah.
哦，完全是的。
Here's the thing.
事情是这样的。
You don't expect your dog to pretend it's not a dog.
你不会指望你的狗假装它不是狗。
You don't expect your dog to stop loving walks and chasing a ball and just being a dog, and when it's tired, it'll go to sleep.
你不会指望你的狗不再热爱散步、追球，只是做一只狗，当它累了的时候，它就会去睡觉。
But often when we fall in love, we try to make ourselves not who we are and try to become the person that will make the other maximally thrilled with us.
但当我们坠入爱河时，我们往往会试图改变自己，并试图成为让对方对我们感到最大程度兴奋的人。
And I know exactly what you're talking about.
我完全知道你在说什么。
I love to give money to people-
我喜欢给别人钱-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I do, too
是的，我也是
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
because it makes them happy, and then it never works.
因为这会让他们快乐，但之后却永远不会起作用。
Well, it works out only in cases where it feels true in my heart.
嗯，只有在我内心感觉真实的情况下，它才会起作用。
If I over-give because someone's there saying, "I need," and it doesn't feel good in the giving, I am not being a dog.
如果我因为有人说“我需要”而过度给予，而给予的感觉并不好，那么我就不是一只狗。
A dog would say, "No, this is where my limits are.
狗会说：“不，这就是我的极限。
I'm going to go lie down on the floor and sleep." But I will get an extra job to give money to people that I don't want to give money to after the first little while.
我要躺在地板上睡觉。”但我会找到一份额外的工作，给那些我不想给钱的人，过一段时间后。
So we bend ourselves out of our true being, and I think the reason we love dogs so much is that they love, but they love truly.
所以我们偏离了真实的存在，我认为我们如此爱狗的原因是它们爱，而且是真正的爱。
They love honestly.
他们爱得真诚。
They don't pretend to be something they're not.
他们不会假装自己不是。
And they don't have the empathy that says, "If your leg is broken, I will break my own leg and lie down next to you so that I feel exactly the same pain you're feeling."
他们没有同理心，会说：“如果你的腿断了，我会打断自己的腿，躺在你旁边，这样我就能感受到你所感受到的同样的痛苦。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It is not empathy to feel everything the other person is feeling.
感受他人的一切感受并不是同理心。
Take the broken leg example.
以断腿为例。
If you got hit by a car, you're lying there screaming in anguish, and I felt your feeling so strongly that I couldn't cope, and I fell down in a faint.
如果你被车撞了，你躺在那里痛苦地尖叫，我强烈地感受到你的感觉，我无法应付，我就晕倒了。
I had a client once who has passed away now, so I'll tell this anecdote.
我曾经有一个客户，现在已经去世了，所以我会讲这个轶事。
Her husband was like you.
她的丈夫和你一样。
He would give himself away, and she gladly consumed all his life energy.
他愿意暴露自己，而她则欣然消耗掉他所有的生命能量。
And one day, he had a heart attack, a near fatal heart attack, and she called me and said, "I couldn't get him to take care of my needs while he was having his heart attack.
有一天，他心脏病发作，一次几乎致命的心脏病发作，她打电话给我说：“当他心脏病发作时，我无法让他照顾我的需要。
He just had it." And I was like, "Yeah, he couldn't help that." And she said, "Well, I told him." He said, "I can't be there for you right now.
他就是这样。”我说，“是的，他无能为力。”她说，“好吧，我告诉他了。”他说，“我现在不能在你身边。
I'm having a heart attack." And she said, "You're not the one whose husband may be dying from a heart attack." She was so into consuming his energy that she actually said that with a straight face.
我心脏病发作了。”她说，“你的丈夫可能会死于心脏病。”她是如此消耗他的能量，以至于她实际上是板着脸说这句话的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Unbelievable.
难以置信。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
She was expecting him to give empathy.
她期待着他给予同情。
That's not empathy.
这不是同理心。
That's selling yourself out.
那就是出卖自己。
Empathy acknowledges self-other awareness.
同理心承认自我他人意识。
There are four components to real empathy, self-other awareness, I am not you.
真正的同理心、自我他人意识、我不是你有四个组成部分。
As Byron Katie, one of my favorite spiritual teachers says, "My favorite thing about separate bodies is that when you hurt, I don't, it's not my turn."
正如我最喜欢的精神导师之一拜伦·凯蒂所说，“关于分离的身体，我最喜欢的一点是，当你受伤时，我不会受伤，现在还轮不到我。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So good.
太好了。
So good.
太好了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Another one is emotion regulation.
另一种是情绪调节。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So you see something that's horrific, and you can like, this is where you can use your skills dealing with your emotions.
所以你看到一些可怕的东西，你会喜欢，这就是你可以运用你的技能来处理你的情绪的地方。
You bring it down.
你把它拿下来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Okay, I'm a surgeon, I'm dealing with a horrible ER accident.
好吧，我是一名外科医生，我正在处理一场可怕的急诊室事故。
I can't feel that.
我感觉不到这一点。
I have to get to work.
我得去上班了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So that's emotion regulation.
这就是情绪调节。
You can do that.
你可以这么做。
Self-other awareness, emotion regulation, there are two other components, but those are the two that I think we really need to focus on.
自我意识、情绪调节，还有另外两个组成部分，但我认为这是我们真正需要关注的两个组成部分。
If you hurt, I don't, it's not my turn, and when you're hurting and I start to hurt too much because you're hurting, I can bring myself back into my own body, relax, and be contented in my own skin so that I can be present for you.
如果你受伤了，我不会，这轮不到我，当你受伤而我因为你受伤而开始受伤太多时，我可以让自己回到自己的身体，放松，满足于自己的皮肤，这样我就可以在你身边。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So here's the thing I love.
这就是我喜欢的东西。
It's a short quote from a poem by Hafiz, who was a 13th-century Persian poet.
这是 13 世纪波斯诗人哈菲兹一首诗中的简短引述。
It's so simple.
就是这么简单。
Remember it, though.
不过请记住。
"Troubled?
“有麻烦吗？
Then stay with me, for I am not."
那么就留在我身边吧，因为我不是。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
That's being yourself in a relationship.
这就是在一段关系中做你自己。
"Then stay with me, for I am not." "But I'm really, really unhappy." "I see that, and I'm not unhappy." "But I really, really want to be together." "I really see that that's how you feel, and I don't want it."
“那就留在我身边吧，因为我不是。” “但我真的非常非常不高兴。” “我明白了，我并不不高兴。” “但是我真的真的很想在一起。” “我确实明白你的感受，但我不想要这样。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's so interesting because I feel like in the domain of work, and with my friends, and largely with family, giving feels great, and then people are sated-
这很有趣，因为我觉得在工作领域，和我的朋友，主要是和家人一起，给予的感觉很棒，然后人们就感到满足了——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then they go on their way.
然后他们继续赶路。
But I noticed a contrast with romantic partnerships when, as I've said, I maintain good relationships with a couple of-
但我注意到与浪漫伙伴关系的对比，正如我所说，当我与几个人保持良好的关系时——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
girlfriends that I had.
我有过的女朋友。
In some cases, I'm good friends with their husbands.
在某些情况下，我和他们的丈夫是好朋友。
Actually, one just came and visited with her sister and her kid recently-
事实上，最近有一个人刚刚带着她的妹妹和她的孩子来探望——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh
噢
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and on just great platonic terms.
并且只是伟大的柏拉图式的术语。
But for years, I didn't worry about them, but I felt like I could still feel the energetic pull-
但多年来，我并不担心它们，但我觉得我仍然能感受到能量的牵引——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
even though they weren't asking for anything.
即使他们没有要求任何东西。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then when I attended their wedding, this particular person's wedding-
然后当我参加他们的婚礼时，这个人的婚礼——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I was like, "Oh." I was like, "My work is done."
我当时想，“哦。”我当时想，“我的工作完成了。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I got to enjoy and still get to enjoy the friendship with the whole family.
我必须享受并且仍然享受与全家人的友谊。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it really showed me how so much of the relationship had been about trying to make sure the other person-
但这确实向我展示了这段关系的大部分内容是为了确保对方——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
was okay.
还好。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You make it your job to make them happy, and it is never your job to make another person happy.
你把让他们快乐作为你的工作，但让别人快乐从来不是你的工作。
You can not do it.
你做不到。
Happiness is an inside job.
幸福是一项内在的工作。
You cannot make another person happy.
你无法让另一个人快乐。
You can't go far enough into someone else's sadness to make them happy.
你无法深入了解别人的悲伤来让他们快乐。
You can't go far enough into their sickness to make them well.
你无法深入了解他们的疾病来让他们康复。
You have to get out of your own sadness and your own sickness, and then stay in your integrity with love for them and model what it is to be in your own skin, which is the only one you're ever going to have.
你必须摆脱你自己的悲伤和你自己的疾病，然后保持你的正直，带着对他们的爱，并以你自己的皮肤为榜样，这是你将拥有的唯一的皮肤。
My oldest child, as a teenager, I was so over-involved in everything, and they gave me a song called "Let Me Fall" by a man who had fallen from a tree and he broke his spine.
我最大的孩子，十几岁的时候，我对一切都过度投入，他们给了我一首叫做“让我跌倒”的歌，是一个从树上摔下来摔断脊椎的男人唱的。
He was a paraplegic, and he just says, "The one I will become will catch me.
他是一名截瘫患者，他只是说：“我将成为的人会抓住我。
Don't catch me anymore." And it was so hard as a parent to let my child suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, and what they were telling me, they/them pronouns, was that, "This is my life, and my suffering is my birthright, and I am here to figure it out as I go, and you are not loving me when you shove yourself into my affairs to try to take away my suffering.
别再抓我了。”作为一个父母，让我的孩子承受令人发指的命运的箭和箭是多么困难，他们告诉我的，他们/他们的代词，是，“这是我的生活，我的痛苦是我与生俱来的权利，我在这里是为了在我走的时候弄清楚它，当你把自己塞进我的事务中试图消除我的痛苦时，你并不爱我。
Let me fall."
让我摔倒吧。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What a mature and generous thing for them to say.
他们说出这样的话是多么成熟和大方啊。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
They are extraordinary.
他们是非凡的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It sounds like it.
听起来是这样。
This is your oldest?
这是你最年长的吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The contrast, and I think what drives a lot of what we're really talking about here is codependency.
对比之下，我认为我们在这里真正讨论的很多内容的驱动因素是相互依赖。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yes.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
For those that don't know or who haven't caught on-
对于那些不知道或还没有流行起来的人来说——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding
叮叮叮叮叮叮
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Right.
对。
Exactly.
确切地。
Is that sometimes when we- Cut people off, or we just say, "Hey, I can give, but only to this point."
有时我们会——打断别人的联系，或者我们只是说，“嘿，我可以给予，但仅限于此。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or, "You can get this aspect of me, but not these other aspects."
或者，“你可以了解我的这一方面，但不能了解其他方面。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Especially if they've been receiving them before, they get-
特别是如果他们以前已经收到过它们，他们会-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yes
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
pissed.
生气了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, so pissed.
哦，太生气了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's unclear, especially if the relationship had been different up until then, that's why it sometimes feels unfair to do.
目前尚不清楚，尤其是如果在此之前双方关系有所不同，这就是为什么有时会觉得这样做不公平。
It's like-
这就像——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it's one thing to invite someone over for a drink, then to discover that they're an alcoholic-
邀请某人过来喝一杯然后发现他们是个酒鬼是一回事——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
continue to fill their glass, enjoy the exchange, and then one day realize they're an alcoholic.
继续斟满酒杯，享受交流，然后有一天意识到自己是个酒鬼。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I guess that term isn't used anymore, I've been told by many audience members.
许多观众告诉我，我想这个词已经不再使用了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh.
哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Forgive me.
请原谅我。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It's fine.
没关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's alcohol use disorder.
这是酒精使用障碍。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I said that, too.
我也这么说过。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, quite all right.
不，完全没问题。
I think that field of addiction medicine is nascent enough that we're still making the transition.
我认为成瘾医学领域还处于起步阶段，我们仍在进行转型。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I don't say this, by the way, for political correctness.
顺便说一句，我这么说并不是为了政治正确。
I'm not a politically correct person.
我不是一个政治正确的人。
It's just I've had to learn to reframe these things for the specific purpose of trying to bring more people into the conversation.
只是我必须学会重新构建这些东西，以达到让更多人参与对话的特定目的。
Also-
还有——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I don't like the idea, but the words alcohol use disorder, the disorder piece is also controversial.
我不喜欢这个想法，但是酒精使用障碍这个词，障碍片也有争议。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But what I love is that as soon as we start to name things and rename things, we're all talking about those things, and then there's no way out of the conversation.
但我喜欢的是，一旦我们开始命名和重新命名事物，我们就都在谈论这些事情，然后就没有办法结束谈话了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That's true.
确实如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So that's my kind of jujitsuing out of the...
这就是我的柔术……
So that means we have to talk about it, just like autism spectrum disorder-
所以这意味着我们必须谈论它，就像自闭症谱系障碍一样——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or autism or neurotypical/atypical.
或自闭症或神经典型/非典型。
Well, guess what, folks?
嗯，猜猜看，伙计们？
Now we're all talking about it, and it needs to be talked about.
现在我们都在谈论它，而且需要谈论它。
So in any case, at some point, there's the idea, like, "I'm cutting you off," and the person says, "But this is what we do."
因此，无论如何，在某些时候，会有这样的想法，比如“我要切断你的联系”，然后那个人说，“但这就是我们所做的。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is the kind of promise that you made.
这就是你做出的承诺。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so then we find ourselves in the other scripts of like, "Well, now I'm being bad.
然后我们发现自己处于其他剧本中，比如，“好吧，现在我很糟糕。
I'm doing the right thing, but I'm breaking a promise."
我在做正确的事，但我违背了承诺。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which we're told from the time we're little you don't do.
我们从小就被告知，你不会这样做。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
But only in the eyes of the other person.
但只是在对方眼中。
If you come back into your own integrity, okay, did I promise to always give more than I can?
如果你恢复了自己的正直，好吧，我是否承诺过永远会给予更多的东西？
Well, I did by my actions.
嗯，我用我的行动做到了。
I established a precedent.
我开创了先例。
Isn't that a promise?
这不是一个承诺吗？
They say it's a promise.
他们说这是一个承诺。
No?
不？
Or if I did make a promise, I was in error.
或者，如果我确实做出了承诺，那我就错了。
I apologize.
我道歉。
I made a mistake.
我犯了一个错误。
I promised something I couldn't really give.
我许诺了一些我无法真正给予的东西。
Have you heard the term extinction burst?
你听说过“灭绝爆发”这个词吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In the notion of galaxies developing or something like that?
在星系发展或类似的概念中？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No, it's when pigeons are...
不，这是鸽子...
Well.
好吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Awesome.
太棒了。
I am way off.
我还差得远呢
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
The galactic pigeons.
银河鸽子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Way off.
太远了。
I'm trying to be Elon Musk here, and you're talking, no, it's about pigeons.
我想在这里成为埃隆·马斯克，而你却在谈论，不，这是关于鸽子的。
Cool.
凉爽的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It's about any animal.
这是关于任何动物的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love pigeons.
我喜欢鸽子。
I even have a pigeon tattoo.
我什至有一个鸽子纹身。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh.
哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I do.
是的，我愿意。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I love all the animals.
我爱所有的动物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Anyway, if you give pigeons, they peck a lever, and they get a pellet at unpredictable intervals, which is highly motivating.
不管怎样，如果你给鸽子，它们会啄一根杠杆，然后它们会以不可预测的间隔得到一颗颗粒，这是非常有激励性的。
It's the most highly motivating thing they can do.
这是他们能做的最有动力的事情。
And then if the pellets stop coming, the pigeons go bananas.
然后，如果颗粒不再出现，鸽子就会发疯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They perseverate.
他们坚持不懈。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Just peck, peck, peck, peck, peck, peck, peck, peck, peck, peck, peck.
只是啄，啄，啄，啄，啄，啄，啄，啄，啄，啄，啄。
They peck it a lot more, and they peck it angrily.
他们啄它的次数更多，而且它们愤怒地啄它。
They insist that the researchers promised them those pellets, and then they just give up and go away because the pellets stop coming.
他们坚持认为研究人员向他们承诺了这些颗粒，然后他们就放弃并离开了，因为颗粒不再来了。
When you have been giving too much, and you realize that, and you say, "To stay in my integrity, I have to pull back and care for myself, and that's where I stop," the other person will put on an extinction burst, for sure.
当你付出太多，并且你意识到这一点时，你说：“为了保持我的正直，我必须退缩并照顾自己，这就是我停止的地方，”另一个人肯定会爆发灭绝。
And your job is to stay inside your integrity until they stop pecking, and they'll be much more healthy.
你的工作就是保持正直，直到它们停止啄食，这样它们就会更加健康。
I had a golden retriever once who would just come and bark to be petted.
我曾经养过一只金毛猎犬，它会过来吠叫以求抚摸。
Bark, bark.
树皮，树皮。
Big, huge dog, but he was young.
狗很大很大，但它还很年轻。
And it was so annoying, and we had to get a dog behaviorist to come in because he was just barking at everybody constantly to be petted.
这太烦人了，我们不得不请一位狗行为学家进来，因为他只是不断地向每个人吠叫以求被抚摸。
And she said, "When he does that, get up, walk across the room, go into another room, and shut the door in his face." And we were like, " That would be cruel." She's like, "It's not cruel.
她说：“当他这样做时，站起来，穿过房间，走进另一个房间，当着他的面关上门。”我们当时想，“那太残酷了。”她说：“这并不残忍。
He'll understand it." And I'll never forget watching him bark.
他会明白的。”我永远不会忘记看着他吠叫。
It's going bark, bark, bark, bark.
它会叫、叫、叫、叫。
And they got up, walked out, shut the door in his face.
他们站起来，走出去，当着他的面关上了门。
He stood by the door and went, "Ruff!" Then he went, "Eh." He went over and laid down.
他站在门口，说道：“鲁夫！”然后他就“嗯”了一声。他走过去躺了下来。
He was like, "All right.
他说：“好吧。
Well, that didn't work." And that's ultimately what happens when you stay inside your integrity and don't let people play with you that way.
嗯，那没用。”当你保持正直，不让别人这样玩弄你时，最终就会发生这样的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Don't let them tug you around.
不要让他们拉扯你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It's interesting because with work, it's like I love learning-
这很有趣，因为在工作中，我喜欢学习——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
organizing information, having conversations like this, and sharing them with the world.
组织信息，进行这样的对话，然后与世界分享。
It feels like the relationship to a dog.
感觉就像是和狗的关系。
It's like this-
是这样的——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
reciprocity, and if people don't like it, okay.
互惠，如果人们不喜欢它，没关系。
And if you like it, great, and if you love it, even better.
如果你喜欢它，那就太好了，如果你喜欢它，那就更好了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I would be doing it anyway.
但无论如何我都会这么做。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's like, I'd be doing it anyway.
就好像，无论如何我都会这样做。
There's no feeling of loss.
没有失落的感觉。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's no metabolizing of self.
没有自我新陈代谢。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Any of that.
任何一个。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah, I know.
是的，我知道。
In the book that I just wrote called "Beyond Anxiety," I talk about when people like you live that way, from their joy, they begin to create economic ecosystems.
在我刚刚写的《超越焦虑》一书中，我谈到当像你这样的人以这种方式生活时，他们会从快乐中开始创造经济生态系统。
You create so much value, that in multiple ways, you can get streams of income, multiple.
你创造了如此多的价值，以至于你可以通过多种方式获得多种收入流。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And people pay me to do this.
人们付钱给我来做这件事。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I still can't believe it.
我仍然不敢相信。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I know.
我知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I come in here and I talk to my producer, who's also my business partner and my closest friend, Rob, and I'm like, "I can't believe they pay us to do this."
我来到这里和我的制片人交谈，他也是我的商业伙伴和我最亲密的朋友罗布，我说，“我不敢相信他们付钱给我们来做这件事。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I know.
我知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I can't believe it.
我简直不敢相信。
And that's also how I felt about science the first time I looked down the microscope and saw a slice of a particular brain area-
这也是我第一次在显微镜下看到特定大脑区域的切片时对科学的感受——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow
哇
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
called the dorsolateral geniculate nucleus, and we had labeled this area.
称为背外侧膝状核，我们已经标记了这个区域。
And I turned to Barbara Chapman, my graduate advisor there, and I was like, "This is amazing." And her response was so funny.
我向我的研究生导师芭芭拉·查普曼求助，我说：“这太棒了。”她的反应很有趣。
She was also Harvard-trained, Radcliffe, to be specific, and she said, "Yeah, brains are really cool.
具体来说，她也是哈佛毕业的拉德克利夫，她说：“是的，大脑真的很酷。
They're like little walnuts." And I was like, "So Barbara." One of the smartest people I ever met, she was just like And I was like- And I thought, and then I looked around her lab.
它们就像小核桃。”我当时想，“所以芭芭拉。”她是我见过的最聪明的人之一，她就像我一样，我想，然后我环视了她的实验室。
I was doing rotations where you get to sample different labs and you hope they'll take you in.
我正在进行轮换，你可以去不同的实验室进行采样，你希望他们会带你进去。
And she had green counters in her lab instead of black counters.
她的实验室里有绿色柜台，而不是黑色柜台。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, cool.
哦，酷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And she had pictures of mushrooms.
她还有蘑菇的照片。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And she had this picture of a cat coming out of a farm silo, like it's hat.
她有一张猫从农场筒仓里出来的照片，就像它的帽子一样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I thought, "I really like this lady."
我想，“我真的很喜欢这位女士。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, that's awesome.
哦，那太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like, "I want to work here.
就像，“我想在这里工作。
I want to do my PhD here."
我想在这里攻读博士学位。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I had already committed to another lab, and I started sneaking into her laboratory at night-
而我已经承诺了另一个实验室，我开始在晚上偷偷溜进她的实验室——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh
噢
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to do experiments.
做实验。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Did you break the heart of the other lab?
你伤了另一个实验室的心吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
She got over it.
她克服了。
So in the professional domain, I'm a completely different animal when it comes to these things.
所以在专业领域，当涉及到这些事情时，我是一个完全不同的动物。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I walked into the other woman's lab, I mean, she's done tremendously well without me, so and I just said, "Listen, I'm going to join this other lab." But I have no trouble doing that in the work domain.
我走进另一个女人的实验室，我的意思是，没有我她也做得非常好，所以我只是说，“听着，我要加入另一个实验室。”但我在工作领域做到这一点没有任何困难。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
None.
没有。
It's like when I started the podcast, sure, there were these voices in my head.
就像当我开始播客时，当然，我的脑海里就有这些声音。
What are my colleagues going to think?
我的同事会怎么想？
This and that, and I was like, "Nah, I hope they're living their best life.
这个那个，我当时想，“不，我希望他们过着最好的生活。
I'm going to live mine."
我要过我自己的生活。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I see them, and some love it, some hate it, and some ...
我看到他们，有些人喜欢它，有些人讨厌它，还有一些......
Like really, I can tell.
就像真的一样，我可以说。
Like I hear the judgments and I also hear the, "I love it," that kind of thing.
就像我听到了评判，我也听到了“我喜欢它”之类的话。
It's a mix, because public-facing anything is going to evoke different responses from people.
这是一个混合体，因为面向公众的任何事情都会引起人们不同的反应。
And, but I'm sort of like, "You do you, I'll do me-
而且，但我有点像，“你做你，我也做我-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and we'll both be good."
我们都会很好。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
We live in this weird economy where you're supposed to get a job, and it's all based on factory work.
我们生活在一个奇怪的经济环境中，你应该找到一份工作，而这一切都是基于工厂工作。
You're supposed to go to a place and do something you don't really like to get your little allowance, and then you go home.
你应该去一个地方做一些你不太喜欢的事情来获得你的一点零用钱，然后你就回家了。
And that has only existed for the last couple hundred years since the Industrial Revolution.
自工业革命以来，这种情况只存在了最近几百年。
Before that, people existed for hundreds of thousands of years, doing what?
在此之前，人类已经存在了几十万年，在做什么？
Hunting, fishing, gardening, weaving, singing songs, telling stories, doing the things that we do as hobbies.
打猎、钓鱼、园艺、编织、唱歌、讲故事，做我们喜欢做的事情。
But we have this weird mindset that says, no. If I do things that bring me joy, like a hobby does, the things that people have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years, if I just put my joy out there and see what I can do with the wild new creations of our particular time, if I don't do the job, I'm being weird somehow, and it won't work.
但我们有一种奇怪的心态，那就是“不”。如果我做一些能给我带来快乐的事情，比如一种爱好，人们数十万年来一直在做的事情，如果我只是把我的快乐放在那里，看看我能用我们这个特定时代的疯狂新创造做些什么，如果我不做这份工作，我会以某种方式变得奇怪，而且它不会起作用。
But what I'm seeing is the economic structures of this society are all being fractured.
但我看到的是这个社会的经济结构正在支离破碎。
They're falling apart around us, and it's people who are afraid.
他们在我们周围分崩离析，而害怕的是人们。
I used to watch this video of a tsunami that hit Sendai, Japan, in 2011, I think it was.
我曾经看过一段关于 2011 年日本仙台海啸的视频，我想是这样。
And this wave comes in, and it eats a city in six minutes.
这波浪潮袭来，六分钟内就吞噬了一座城市。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
This one wave, and you watch the whole city-
这一挥手，你就看到了整个城市——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow
哇
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
be ripped to shreds in six minutes.
六分钟之内就会被撕成碎片。
And people are running into the buildings, and then the buildings start to collapse, and you know there are people in there.
人们跑进建筑物，然后建筑物开始倒塌，你知道里面有人。
And I watched this, and I thought, there is so much change in our culture.
我看了这个，我想，我们的文化发生了很大的变化。
It's like that wave has hit us.
就好像那波浪潮袭击了我们。
And then accidentally, I hit something in YouTube or whatever, and it switched to Mike Parsons surfing one of the biggest waves ever filmed.
然后一不小心，我在 YouTube 或其他网站上看到了一些东西，然后画面切换到迈克·帕森斯正在冲浪，这是有史以来拍摄到的最大的海浪之一。
It was a rogue wave, and it went up like 70 feet.
这是一波凶猛的海浪，高达 70 英尺。
And the camera pulls back, and here's this basically naked man on a board with a wave that is like the wrath of God, and he's this tiny little figure.
镜头拉回来，这是一个基本上赤身裸体的男人站在一块木板上，他的波浪就像上帝的愤怒一样，他就是这个小小的人物。
The wave is seven stories tall.
波浪有七层楼那么高。
And he comes riding down the face of that, and it breaks over him, and you think, "Oh, he's dead." And then he shoots out of the spray just like shouting.
当他从那面而来时，它冲垮了他，你会想，“哦，他死了。”然后他就像大喊一样从浪花中射出。
And I thought, those are the choices we have right now.
我想，这些就是我们现在拥有的选择。
We can run into the institutions that we think will keep us safe, and change will crush us and drown us and kill us, or we can deal with the fact that there's a huge wave of change in our society right now, and everything's changing at an accelerating rate, and we can risk running out naked and just with our joy, and just balance on our joy and let the wave take us for a ride.
我们可以遇到那些我们认为能保证我们安全的机构，而变化会压垮我们、淹没我们、杀死我们，或者我们可以面对这样一个事实：我们的社会现在正经历着巨大的变革浪潮，一切都在加速变化，我们可能会冒着赤裸裸的风险，只带着我们的快乐，在我们的快乐中保持平衡，让浪潮带我们去兜风。
You're surfing.
你正在冲浪。
You are an example to the world of someone who is balanced in his joy.
你是世界上在快乐中保持平衡的人的榜样。
Except in relationships, but you'll get over that.
除了人际关系之外，但你会克服的。
Anyway.
反正。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's taking some work.
这需要一些工作。
It's taking some work.
这需要一些工作。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
There's a woman hanging onto the end of your surfboard.
有一个女人挂在你的冲浪板的末端。
It's not going to-- It's not going to-
它不会--它不会-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Unfortunately, it's a lot more complicated than that.
不幸的是，事情比这复杂得多。
But I am seeing a portal toward, I guess, what you're calling true integrity, where in the back of my mind, I have this very vestigial understanding of what all of that relationship stuff actually looks like and feels like when it's right for me.
但我想，我看到了一个通向你所说的真正正直的门户，在我的内心深处，我对所有这些关系的东西在适合我时实际上是什么样子和感觉如何有一种非常残存的理解。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I just, I think it's not going to look like the way I try to script it out.
我只是，我认为这不会像我尝试编写的那样。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Do an ideal day with that relationship, and it could be the weirdest thing you've ever heard of.
与这段关系度过一个理想的一天，这可能是你听过的最奇怪的事情。
It will work, I promise you.
我向你保证，它会起作用的。
I have a very weird relationship life.
我的人际关系生活非常奇怪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's reassuring to me.
这让我放心。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I can't believe I'm going to say this on this podcast.
我不敢相信我会在这个播客上说这些。
So I have two partners.
所以我有两个伙伴。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Your partner's awesome.
你的搭档太棒了。
Oh, I meant, well, I just met-
哦，我的意思是，好吧，我刚刚认识-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
one of them.
其中之一。
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
One was the very first relationship I ever had with a woman.
其中一次是我与女性的第一次关系。
That was 20-some years ago.
那是20多年前的事了。
And then I was living on my ranch and meditating all day, and my partner, Karen, came to me, and this Australian poet, Rowan, was staying on our ranch with some other people.
然后我住在我的牧场上，整天冥想，我的伴侣凯伦来找我，这位澳大利亚诗人罗文和其他一些人住在我们的牧场上。
And Karen sat me down.
凯伦让我坐下。
She said, "Marty, I have to tell you, I'm having very strong, I don't know, maybe maternal feelings toward Rowan." I was like, "No, they're not maternal.
她说：“马蒂，我必须告诉你，我对罗文有非常强烈的、我不知道的母性感情。”我当时想，“不，他们不是母亲。
I'm not getting a maternal energy." And I got hit by this blast of joy, joy, joy.
我没有得到母性能量。”我被这股喜悦、喜悦、喜悦所震撼。
It was like that white light thing.
就像那个白光一样的东西。
It was like...
就像...
And I said, "You're in love with her.
我说：“你爱她。
This is amazing.
这太棒了。
Tell her to come in.
叫她进来。
I'll go to the guest room.
我去客房吧。
You guys can have the..." I was just like happy, happy, happy.
你们可以拥有……”我感到很高兴、很高兴、很高兴。
And I looked for jealousy, and I looked for-- I was like, "This isn't supposed to work this way." So Rowan came up, and we all sat around talking, and we sat around talking a lot more, and we all sat on the same couch talking, going, "This isn't weird, is it?" And after a couple of weeks, we realized everybody was in love with everybody, and we couldn't live without each other.
我寻找嫉妒，我寻找——我想，“这不应该是这样的。”所以罗文出现了，我们都坐在一起聊天，我们坐在同一张沙发上聊天，说：“这并不奇怪，不是吗？”几周后，我们意识到每个人都彼此相爱，没有彼此我们就无法生活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so that's how you exist.
这就是你的存在方式。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That was eight years ago, and we have a three-year-old named Lyla, who's delightful.
那是八年前的事了，我们有一个三岁的孩子，名叫莱拉，她很可爱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Awesome.
太棒了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It is, we call it feeling good by looking weird.
是的，我们称之为通过看起来怪异而感觉良好。
And you can cut it out of-
你可以把它剪掉-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, I love it
哦，我喜欢它
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
...
...
the podcast if it's too-
播客如果太-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. We have no master, no overlords.
不，我们没有主人，没有霸主。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So-
所以——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Are you kidding me?
你在开玩笑吗？
What we're talking about here is love-
我们在这里谈论的是爱——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
first of all.
首先。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's just be, of all the things to cut out of a podcast, we're not going to cut love out of a podcast.
就这么说吧，在所有要从播客中删除的内容中，我们不会从播客中删除爱情。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, I'd love that about this podcast, because a lot of people would.
哦，我很喜欢这个播客，因为很多人都会喜欢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, not me.
好吧，不是我。
And for people that balk at that, or it creates internal friction in them, then I just invite you to visit your compassionate witness self, see if it's still there.
对于那些对此犹豫不决的人，或者这会给他们带来内部摩擦的人，那么我只是邀请你去拜访你富有同情心的见证自我，看看它是否仍然存在。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if it's still there, then, hey.
如果它还在那里，那么，嘿。
I actually believe that humans, partially based on developmental wiring, like experiences, but also just differences in wiring.
我实际上相信，部分基于发育布线的人类喜欢体验，但也只是布线上的差异。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I just fundamentally believe in this.
我只是从根本上相信这一点。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of my closest friends, my third postdoc-- My third advisor, who was my postdoc advisor at Stanford-
我最亲密的朋友之一，我的第三位博士后——我的第三位导师，他是我在斯坦福大学的博士后导师——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is now, unfortunately, he died of pancreatic cancer.
现在，他不幸因胰腺癌去世。
It's the late Ben Barres.
这是已故的本·巴雷斯。
He was born an identical twin girl.
他出生时是同卵双胞胎女孩。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow.
哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Then went up through medical school, living as a woman.
然后上了医学院，以女性身份生活。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Graduate school as a woman.
作为女性读研究生。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then transitioned to Ben pretty late in life.
然后很晚才转向本。
So I only met Ben.
所以我只遇见了Ben。
Ben was a close friend, and then unfortunately, probably because he had the BRCA2 mutation-
Ben 是一位亲密的朋友，然后不幸的是，可能是因为他有 BRCA2 突变——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh
噢
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
died of multiple cancers, but that initiated by pancreatic cancer.
死于多种癌症，但都是由胰腺癌引发的。
First transgender member of the National Academy of Sciences.
美国国家科学院第一位变性人成员。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Wow.
哇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I wrote his obituary for the journal Nature.
我为《自然》杂志写了他的讣告。
We were very close.
我们非常亲密。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Aw.
噢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And just an amazing, very quirky dude.
而且是一个令人惊奇、非常古怪的家伙。
And didn't have a romantic partner, at least not at the time when he passed-
并且没有浪漫的伴侣，至少在他去世的时候没有——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or in the time that I knew him, to my knowledge.
或者据我所知，在我认识他的时候。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And Ben used to say there are components of our wiring that are ubiquitous.
本曾经说过，我们的布线中有些组件是无处不在的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The parts that control breathing.
控制呼吸的部分。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The parts that control heart.
控制心脏的部分。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then there are parts of our wiring that are just different.
然后我们的布线有一些部分是不同的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And to me, as a scientist, it makes perfect sense.
对我来说，作为一名科学家，这是完全有道理的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The notion that any of that would be controversial-
任何一个都会引起争议的想法——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm
嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is like, what?
就像，什么？
It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that one would not believe that people have differences in wiring, because most people-
不相信人们在布线上存在差异是没有任何意义的，因为大多数人——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
want to believe in differences in wiring when it's convenient for-
在方便的情况下愿意相信接线的差异-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
themselves.
他们自己。
So I really appreciate that you're sharing this, and because yeah, every which version works.
所以我真的很感激你分享这个，因为是的，每个版本都有效。
And I also learned from my graduate advisor, Barbara Chapman, she used to say, "Tolerance has to go both ways."
我还从我的研究生导师芭芭拉·查普曼那里学到了东西，她常说，“宽容必须是双向的。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I also love and applaud the whatever traditional nuclear family-
所以我也喜欢并赞扬传统的核心家庭——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Absolutely, yeah
绝对是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is it still called that?
现在还是这样叫吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Oh, my gosh.
哦，天哪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So anyway.
所以无论如何。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
But I would love you to really sit down, get incredibly authentic with yourself, and say, "Honestly, if I had the perfect romantic life, what would it look like?" And be what you will call very selfish.
但我希望你能真正坐下来，对自己保持难以置信的真实，然后说：“老实说，如果我有完美的浪漫生活，那会是什么样子？”并且成为你所说的非常自私的人。
What I would call very much in your integrity.
我非常欣赏你的正直。
Don't tell yourself any lies about what you really want.
不要对自己撒谎，告诉自己你真正想要什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah, it's very strange, but both Karen and I felt like there was a tremendous absence in a couple of years before Roe came into our life, and it's like we're a three-legged stool.
是的，这很奇怪，但是凯伦和我都觉得在罗伊进入我们的生活之前的几年里，我们之间存在着巨大的缺席，就像我们是一个三足凳子。
Two-legged stools do not make sense to us.
两条腿的凳子对我们来说没有意义。
They fall down.
他们跌倒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Whatever comes into your vision of joy, whatever makes you feel free, write it down, and read it often.
无论什么进入你的快乐视野，无论什么让你感到自由，把它写下来，并经常阅读。
And when you get into a relationship, read it even more often.
当你建立恋爱关系时，更要经常阅读它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe have the other person read it.
也许让其他人读一下。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And let the other person read it.
并让对方读一下。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Totally.
完全可以。
That would be-
那将是——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That I can do.
我能做到的。
As difficult as it is to have certain conversations, I could certainly write things down and just slide an envelope.
尽管进行某些对话很困难，但我当然可以把事情写下来，然后滑入信封。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
It's like a pre-nup.
这就像婚前协议。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Totally, like-
完全地，就像——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Here's what I'm after.
这就是我所追求的。
Don't let me do the things in column B.
不要让我做 B 栏中的事情。
It won't end well.
不会有好结局的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love it, and I really appreciate that you shared that, and I know people listening will as well.
我喜欢它，我真的很感激你分享这一点，我知道倾听的人也会这么做。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I hope so.
我希望如此。
And if not, I read a book by Samantha Irby, wonderful comedian, and she says, "Here's what you say when people tell you that you're horrible, and you're doing something awful.
如果没有的话，我读了一本出色的喜剧演员萨曼莎·厄比（Samantha Irby）写的书，她说：“当人们告诉你你很糟糕，你正在做一些可怕的事情时，你会这样说。
You say, 'I like it.'"
你说，‘我喜欢它。’”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Love it.
喜欢它。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
That's it.
就是这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, one of the reasons I oriented very young towards, and still love, punk rock music-
嗯，我很小的时候就开始关注并且仍然热爱朋克摇滚音乐的原因之一是——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that genre, is because to me, I could be wrong, maybe classical music being an exception, but to me-
那种流派，是因为对我来说，我可能是错的，也许古典音乐是一个例外，但对我来说——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Hmm
嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it's the only genre of music where all the versions of self and emotions-
这是唯一一种包含所有自我和情感版本的音乐流派——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
are welcome.
欢迎。
There's angry music.
有愤怒的音乐。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's political music.
有政治音乐。
There's sad music.
有悲伤的音乐。
There's music about friendship and camaraderie, about loss.
有关于友谊和友情、关于失去的音乐。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you look at the community, I'm really into this stuff, so-
你看看社区，我真的很喜欢这些东西，所以-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
look at the community, like my good friend Tim Armstrong has created around certain bands.
看看这个社区，就像我的好朋友蒂姆·阿姆斯特朗围绕某些乐队创建的那样。
He's going to be on the Mount Rushmore of punk rock, or the great Joe Strummer from The Clash.
他将登上朋克摇滚的拉什莫尔山，或者《冲突》中伟大的乔·斯特鲁默。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Political music.
政治音乐。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or Laura Jane Grace, one of the first outwardly facing transgendered people in the punk rock community, and does amazing music.
或者劳拉·简·格蕾丝 (Laura Jane Grace)，她是朋克摇滚界第一批外向的变性人之一，她的音乐令人惊叹。
Well, it was Against Me!, and then Laura Jane Grace, I'm like, she's a hero of mine.
嗯，这是《反对我！》，然后是劳拉·简·格蕾丝，我想，她是我的英雄。
One of my short list of heroes.
我的英雄名单之一。
I love what she's done at so many levels.
我喜欢她在很多层面上所做的事情。
And it's like there's this tapestry of all the different humans and human experiences in a kind of single genre.
就好像在一种单一类型中所有不同的人类和人类经历都有这样的挂毯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I don't know much about other genres of music, but I don't see that.
我对其他音乐流派了解不多，但我看不到这一点。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't see that.
我不这么认为。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
You're right.
你是对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe across the totality of rock and roll or whatever, but if ever there was a sector of life that's all-inclusive-
也许涵盖了摇滚乐或其他什么的全部，但如果生活中有一个部分是包罗万象的——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it's that.
就是这样。
But not because it's loud, it's fast, and it's anti.
但并不是因为它声音大、速度快、而且是反的。
It's like so much of it is pro-social.
好像其中很多都是亲社会的。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I think there's a big misunderstanding around that.
所以我认为这里面存在很大的误解。
So that ethos is something that's always resonated, and I feel the same way about relationships.
因此，这种精神总是能引起共鸣，我对人际关系也有同样的感觉。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or on social media, one of the reasons I can go on social media and not have it spike my cortisol constantly- ...
或者在社交媒体上，我可以继续使用社交媒体而不让它不断地刺激我的皮质醇的原因之一-......
is I'm there and I'm like, okay, there's some mentally healthy people here.
我在那里，我想，好吧，这里有一些心理健康的人。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some mentally unhealthy people here.
这里有一些精神不健康的人。
People are here to fight.
人们来这里是为了战斗。
People are here to love.
人们来这里是为了爱。
People are here to find partners.
人们来这里是为了寻找合作伙伴。
People are here to flirt.
人们来这里是为了调情。
And you know what?
你知道吗？
People are here to attack me, cool, I'm glad I'm giving you a purpose for your morning.
人们来这里攻击我，酷，我很高兴我给你一个早晨的目标。
That kind of thing.
那种事。
I try and just approach it all that way, where you just made all of this very clear in a much more succinct way, where you just said, "Great, I like it."
我试着用这种方式来处理它，你以一种更简洁的方式把所有这些都说得非常清楚，你只是说，“太好了，我喜欢它。”
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I like it.
我喜欢它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's awesome.
太棒了。
Yeah, yours with a real genuine sense of joy.
是的，你的内心充满了真正的快乐。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And I am-
而我是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like no, "Well, I like it." There's no friction in that statement.
就像不，“嗯，我喜欢它。”该声明中没有任何摩擦。
It's just, "I like it."
只是，“我喜欢它”。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I really like it.
我真的很喜欢它。
I like a lot.
我很喜欢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love that you like it a lot and that you can say it that way.
我喜欢你非常喜欢它并且你可以这样说。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Who can't?
谁不能？
If it's all love, you can outlove almost anything.
如果这一切都是爱，那么你几乎可以爱一切。
You're furious at me?
你对我很生气吗？
I like it.
我喜欢它。
I just outloved you.
我只是比你更爱而已。
And I think that's why Jesus said, "Charity never faileth." It's not that you're going to win everything if you are a loving person, it's that no matter what happens, it's like that self, your suffering, your pain, your codependency, whatever, it loves it all.
我想这就是为什么耶稣说：“仁爱永不止息。”这并不是说，如果你是一个有爱的人，你就会赢得一切，而是无论发生什么，就像那个自我，你的痛苦，你的痛苦，你的相互依赖，不管怎样，它都爱这一切。
Bring it.
带上它。
It loves it all.
它喜欢这一切。
And that means that no matter what you come at me with, I can hold that in a field of love, and my experience is love.
这意味着无论你用什么来找我，我都可以在爱的场域中保持它，而我的经历就是爱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What was the quote from Jesus?
耶稣引用了什么？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
I don't know if it's from Jesus, but I think it's in Paul, says, "Charity never faileth." Love never fails.
我不知道这是否来自耶稣，但我认为是来自保罗，他说：“仁爱永不止息。”爱永远不会失败。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And it's because I can say, "I hate myself." Yes, but I love the part of me that hates myself.
这是因为我可以说：“我讨厌自己。”是的，但我爱我讨厌自己的那部分。
Just outloved you.
只是比你更爱而已。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, of course, the answer's going to be yes.
嗯，当然，答案是肯定的。
I was going to ask, were you always like this?
我就想问，你平时都是这样吗？
Meaning that you could hold this position on the balance beam, and then I feel like you've taken this balance beam and created this big mesa for-
这意味着你可以在平衡木上保持这个位置，然后我觉得你已经拿着这个平衡木并创造了这个大台面-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
others to stand on.
其他人可以站立。
Because it's a really stable place to be once you're there.
因为一旦你到达那里，它就是一个非常稳定的地方。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But getting to this place of essential self and the path to integrity, can I just say it the way I feel it?
但到了这个本质自我和正直之路，我能直接说我的感受吗？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's fucking difficult.
真是太难了
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I was about to use that same word.
我正要使用同一个词。
I think in order to become stable, I always say that the raw material for any good experience is its opposite.
我认为为了变得稳定，我总是说任何好的体验的原材料都是它的反面。
So I was messed-- I was F'd up beyond belief.
所以我很混乱——我简直难以置信。
There's SNAFU, these are both military terms.
出了问题，这都是军事术语。
SNAFU means situation normal, all fucked up.
SNAFU 意味着情况正常，一切都搞砸了。
FUBAR means fucked up beyond all recognition.
FUBAR 的意思是搞砸得面目全非。
I was FUBAR.
我是FUBAR。
Now I occasionally get SNAFU.
现在我偶尔会遇到问题。
But I was so FUBAR that the suffering was so intense that when I learned to come home, the contrast was very sharp and I never ever want to leave the consciousness that that light is always with us, and we can feel it if we're honest.
但我很沮丧，痛苦是如此强烈，以至于当我学会回家时，对比非常鲜明，我永远不想离开这样的意识：那光总是与我们同在，如果我们诚实，我们就能感觉到它。
And that's all we have to do, be honest, and there it is.
这就是我们所要做的，说实话，就这样。
Boom.
繁荣。
It's Godess.
原来是女神啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I feel like it starts with the scope of self, like we have to do this for ourselves before we can do this with-
我觉得这要从自我范围开始，就像我们必须先为自己做这件事，然后才能用-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and for other people.
以及其他人。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then at some point, the fantasy in my mind, it sounds like my mother.
然后在某个时刻，我脑海中的幻想，听起来就像我的母亲。
My mother, from the youngest age I can remember in myself, was talking about trying to heal the world.
从我记忆中最小的时候起，我的母亲就在谈论要努力治愈世界。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I've seen the toll it's taken on her.
我已经看到了这对她造成的损失。
She'll call sometimes, and I'll be like, "How's it going?" And something will have happened in the news.
有时她会打电话来，我会问：“怎么样？”新闻中将会发生一些事情。
I can just tell it really wears on her.
我只能说这对她来说真的很累。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's hard for me to hear and see, because I feel it, too.
我很难听到和看到，因为我也感觉到了。
It's like, goodness.
就像，天哪。
Do you feel like there's hope for our species?
你觉得我们这个物种还有希望吗？
I'm trying to not throw the whole problems of the world at you, but-
我试图不把世界上所有的问题都抛给你，但是——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
No, I've been thinking about it
不，我一直在考虑
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I'm almost 50.
我快50岁了。
I feel like at this point, I've seen enough to be like, there's so much goodness in people.
我觉得在这一点上，我已经看到足够多的人了，人性中有很多善良。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there's also the capacity for so much-
但也有这么多的能力——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
So much
这么多
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
misunderstanding, bad.
误会，不好。
You got the developmental wiring.
你已经掌握了发育线路。
You got the hurt people hurt people.
你伤害了人们，伤害了人们。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Everyone's doing the best they can.
每个人都在尽力而为。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Everyone wants safety and acceptance, and they're just trying to find it this way.
每个人都想要安全和被接受，他们只是想以这种方式找到它。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then there are your truly bad actors because they're either-
然后还有真正糟糕的演员，因为他们要么是——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
miswired or whatever-
接线错误或其他什么-
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and they're creating havoc.
他们正在造成严重破坏。
Is there any real hope for a different version of things that's persistent?
对于持久存在的事物的不同版本是否有真正的希望？
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
The first time I remember worrying about this, I was four.
我记得第一次担心这个问题是在我四岁的时候。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, Jesus.
哦，耶稣。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
And I'm 10 years older than you are, but I knew at four that I was here to try to help with something.
我比你大 10 岁，但我四岁时就知道我来这里是为了尝试帮助一些事情。
And as I grew up, it just wouldn't go away, this feeling that I was supposed to help with something.
随着我的成长，这种我应该帮忙做某事的感觉一直挥之不去。
And in my teens, it became, I need to help change the way people think.
在我十几岁的时候，我需要帮助改变人们的思维方式。
I don't know.
我不知道。
And then I started noticing other people who seemed to be like me, and I would be like, "I think they're on the same team I'm on." And I was like, "What team?
然后我开始注意到其他看起来像我的人，我会说，“我认为他们和我在同一个团队。”我当时想，“什么球队？
What am I talking about?" And it all came to a head when I was in South Africa in the wilderness, and I had a dream that my ancestors were coming to visit me, and I thought it was funny, so I told it to some friends from the Shangaan tribe, who reacted like this, and then they ran.
我在说什么？”当我在南非的荒野中时，这一切都达到了紧要关头，我梦见我的祖先来看望我，我觉得这很有趣，所以我把这件事告诉了一些来自尚安部落的朋友，他们有这样的反应，然后他们就跑了。
And I was like, "What did I do wrong?" And later that night, we're all sitting around the fire.
我当时想，“我做错了什么？”那天晚上晚些时候，我们都坐在火边。
There are lions roaring.
有狮子在咆哮。
They bring this little woman from Mozambique, and she's a sangoma, she's a shaman.
他们从莫桑比克带来了这个小女人，她是桑戈玛，她是萨满。
And she did her divinatory system, which is she threw the bones for me, because if you had dream I had, you have to see a sangoma right away or bad things will happen.
她做了她的占卜系统，那就是她把骨头扔给我，因为如果你做了我做的梦，你必须立即看到桑戈玛，否则不好的事情就会发生。
So she said stuff about me that was true, but she could've Googled it.
所以她说的关于我的事情都是真的，但她可以用谷歌搜索一下。
And it was weird when she looked at me, I felt like these ice needles going through me.
当她看着我时，感觉很奇怪，我感觉这些冰针穿过我。
It was not cute, but it was very intense.
它并不可爱，但非常激烈。
And what she said was, "There are people being born to be healers all over the world, just like there are in the traditional tribes.
她说的是，“世界各地都有人天生就是治疗师，就像传统部落中的人一样。
You need to go find them and tell them what they're here to do.
你需要去找他们并告诉他们来这里做什么。
They're here to heal the world, and they need the wisdom that the traditional people had, and they need their technology." And it was so interesting because she acted very frightened and confused by what she was saying to me.
他们来这里是为了治愈世界，他们需要传统人民拥有的智慧，他们需要他们的技术。”这很有趣，因为她对我说的话表现得非常害怕和困惑。
She had to get a group of people behind her who would chant, "We agree, we agree," because she was freaked out.
她必须让一群人在她身后高呼“我们同意，我们同意”，因为她吓坏了。
But I think that in every traditional group of 100 to 150 people, there were a few healers that were recognized by the elders as people who were highly sensitive.
但我认为，在每一个100到150人的传统团体中，都有一些治疗师被长辈们认为是高度敏感的人。
They were interested in nature and science.
他们对自然和科学感兴趣。
They were interested in animals.
他们对动物感兴趣。
They were interested in the mystery.
他们对这个谜团很感兴趣。
They were interested in the arts.
他们对艺术感兴趣。
They were performers, but they were also very introverted and thinky.
他们是表演者，但也非常内向、爱思考。
It's an archetype of healing, of medicine person.
这是治愈的原型，是医学人士的原型。
The coaches I coach, I call it wayfinders, which is a term from an anthropologist.
我所指导的教练，我称之为寻路者，这是人类学家的一个术语。
If you're born in that archetype, if you have that phenotype, I believe it's a phenotype, and I believe it crops up in every 100 to 150 people several times, and our culture has no word for it and no path for it.
如果你出生在那种原型中，如果你有那种表型，我相信它就是一种表型，而且我相信它会在每 100 到 150 个人中多次出现，而我们的文化对此没有任何说法，也没有任何途径。
But if we are going to save the world, we will draw on whatever was born into us that makes us want to heal things, and we will use the technologies we've developed, and we will use our joy and our refusal to participate in the nonsense of our culture, and we will hold firm, and we will try to change the way humanity lives on this planet.
但如果我们要拯救世界，我们将利用我们与生俱来的、让我们想要治愈事物的东西，我们将使用我们开发的技术，我们将利用我们的快乐和拒绝参与我们文化的胡言乱语，我们将坚定不移，我们将努力改变人类在这个星球上的生活方式。
And I don't know which way it's going to go, but I'm in the game, and I think you are, too.
我不知道事情会朝哪个方向发展，但我参与其中，我想你也是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I have a feeling I am, too.
是的，我也有这样的感觉。
And I'm certain that I'm in it thanks to you.
我确信我能参与其中，多亏了你。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Aw.
噢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And seriously, in large part.
严重的是，在很大程度上。
I told the story earlier that the path I'm on and the fact that anyone's listening to this and watching it is the consequence of having read your books and-
我之前讲过这个故事，我所走的路以及任何人听这个、看这个的事实都是读过你的书的结果，而且——
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Aw
噢
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
done the exercises and will continue to do them.
完成了练习并将继续进行。
So I must say, there really aren't words to express how much this means to me that you would come here, take the time to share with us your wisdom, and to delve into some topics that are of particular interest to me, because I, like everyone else, am a work in progress who's curious about the best ways to move forward.
所以我必须说，真的无法用语言来表达这对我来说意味着什么，你会来到这里，花时间与我们分享你的智慧，并深入研究一些我特别感兴趣的话题，因为我和其他人一样，是一个正在进行中的人，对前进的最佳方式感到好奇。
And every time you speak, and just when you show up someplace, it's an incredible thing.
每次你说话，当你出现在某个地方时，这都是一件令人难以置信的事情。
Everybody learns, everybody gets better, and everyone walks away with tools and empowerment.
每个人都在学习，每个人都变得更好，每个人都带着工具和授权离开。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Aw.
噢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I just want to say thank you so much.
我只想说非常感谢。
There's really not a whole lot else.
确实没有太多其他的了。
Dr. Martha Beck:
玛莎·贝克博士：
Same to you.
你也一样。
You're just looking in the mirror.
你只是在照镜子。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
That might be the only podcast to ever end in tears.
这可能是唯一一个以泪水结束的播客。
Thank you so much.
太感谢了。
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Martha Beck.
感谢您参加今天与玛莎·贝克博士的讨论。
I hope you found it to be as informative and as meaningful as I did.
我希望您能像我一样发现它内容丰富且有意义。
To learn more about her work and to find links to her many excellent books, please see the links in the show note captions.
要了解有关她的作品的更多信息并找到她许多优秀书籍的链接，请参阅节目注释标题中的链接。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please be sure to follow the podcast on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请务必关注 Spotify 和 Apple 上的播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab Podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客、嘉宾或您希望我考虑在 Huberman 实验室播客中讨论的主题有意见，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这本书是我花了五年多的时间编写的，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验。
And it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它涵盖了从睡眠到运动再到压力控制的所有协议，以及与注意力和动机相关的协议，当然，我为所包含的协议提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." If you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 hubermanlab。
So that's Instagram, Twitter, now known as X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、Twitter（现在称为 X）、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlap with the contents of the Huberman Lab Podcast, but much of which is distinct from the contents of the Huberman Lab Podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容不同。
Again, that's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
再说一次，这就是所有社交媒体平台上的 hubermanlab。
If you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, our Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes what we call protocols, which are brief one to three-page PDFs that cover things such as neuroplasticity and learning, dopamine optimization, how to get better sleep, things like deliberate cold exposure.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，我们的神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括我们所说的协议，这些协议是简短的一到三页 PDF，涵盖神经可塑性和学习、多巴胺优化、如何获得更好的睡眠、故意冷暴露等内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol.
我们有一个基本的健身协议。
We have a protocol all about habit-forming and much more.
我们有一个关于习惯养成等等的协议。
To sign up, again, at completely zero cost, you simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu function in the corner, scroll down to Newsletter, and you provide your email.
要再次以完全零成本注册，您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到角落的菜单功能，向下滚动到新闻通讯，然后提供您的电子邮件。
I should point out that we do not share your email with anybody.
我应该指出，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Martha Beck.
再次感谢您参加今天与玛莎·贝克博士的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。