Dr. Lex Fridman: Navigating Conflict, Finding Purpose & Maintaining Drive

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

Today, my guest is Dr. Lex Fridman.

今天，我的嘉宾是莱克斯·弗里德曼博士。

Dr. Lex Fridman is an expert in electrical and computer engineering, artificial intelligence, and robotics.

Lex Fridman 博士是电气和计算机工程、人工智能和机器人技术方面的专家。

He is also the host of the Lex Fridman Podcast, which initially started as a podcast focused on technology and science of various kinds, including computer science and physics, but rapidly evolved to include guests and other topics as a matter of focus, including sport.

他还是 Lex Fridman 播客的主持人，该播客最初是一个专注于各种技术和科学（包括计算机科学和物理学）的播客，但迅速发展为包括嘉宾和其他主题（包括体育）。

For instance, Dr. Lex Freedman is a black belt in Brazilian jujitsu.

例如，莱克斯·弗里德曼博士是巴西柔术黑带。

And he's had numerous guests on who come from the fields of Brazilian jujitsu, both from the coaching side and from the competitor side.

他邀请了很多来自巴西柔术领域的嘉宾，既有教练方面的，也有参赛者方面的。

He also has shown an active interest in topics such as chess and essentially anything that involves intense activation and engagement of the mind and/or body.

他还对国际象棋等主题以及任何涉及精神和/或身体强烈激活和参与的主题表现出积极的兴趣。

In fact, the Lex Fridman podcast has evolved to take on very difficult topics such as mental health — he's had various psychiatrists and other guests on that relate to mental health and mental illness, as well as guests focused on geopolitics and some of the more controversial issues that face our times.

事实上，莱克斯·弗里德曼（Lex Fridman）播客已经发展到涵盖非常困难的话题，例如心理健康——他邀请了各种精神科医生和其他嘉宾讨论与心理健康和精神疾病有关的话题，还有关注地缘政治和我们这个时代面临的一些更具争议性问题的嘉宾。

He's had comedians, he's had scientists, he's had friends, he's had enemies on his podcast.

他有喜剧演员，他有科学家，他有朋友，他的播客上也有敌人。

Lex has a phenomenal, I would say a one-in-an-eight-billion ability to find these people, make them comfortable, and in that comfort, both try to understand them and to confront them and to push them so that we all learn.

莱克斯有一种非凡的能力，我想说是八十亿分之一的能力来找到这些人，让他们感到舒适，在这种舒适中，双方都试图理解他们，面对他们并推动他们，以便我们都学习。

All of which is to say that Lex Fridman is no longer just an accomplished scientist, he certainly is that.

所有这些都表明莱克斯·弗里德曼不再只是一位卓有成就的科学家，他确实是这样。

But he has also become one of the more preeminent thought leaders on the planet.

但他也成为了地球上最杰出的思想领袖之一。

And if there's anything that really captures the essence of Lex Fridman, it's his love of learning, his desire to share with us the human experience and to broaden that experience so that we all may benefit.

如果说有什么真正体现了莱克斯·弗里德曼的精髓，那就是他对学习的热爱，他渴望与我们分享人类经验并扩大这种经验，以便我们所有人都能受益。

In many ways, our discussion during today's episode captures the many facets of Lex Fridman, although no conversation, of course, could capture them all.

在很多方面，我们今天这一集的讨论捕捉到了莱克斯·弗里德曼的许多方面，尽管当然没有任何对话可以捕捉到所有这些。

We sit down to the conversation just days after Lex returned from Ukraine, where he deliberately placed himself into the tension of that environment in order to understand the geopolitics of the region and to understand exactly what was happening at the level of the ground and the people there.

就在莱克斯从乌克兰回来几天后，我们坐下来进行了对话，他故意将自己置身于紧张的环境中，以便了解该地区的地缘政治，并准确了解当地和当地人民正在发生的事情。

You may notice that he carries quite a lot of both emotion and knowledge and understanding.

你可能会注意到他承载着相当多的情感、知识和理解。

And yet in a very classic Lex Fridman way, you'll notice that he's able to zoom out of his own experience around any number of different topics and view them through a variety of lenses so that first of all, everyone feels included, but most of all, so that everyone learned something new, that is, to gain new perspective.

然而，以一种非常经典的莱克斯·弗里德曼的方式，你会注意到他能够围绕任意数量的不同主题缩小自己的经验，并通过各种镜头来看待它们，这样首先，每个人都感到被包容，但最重要的是，这样每个人都学到了新的东西，也就是说，获得新的视角。

Our discussion also ventures into the waters of social media and how that landscape is changing the way that science and technology are communicated.

我们的讨论还涉及社交媒体领域，以及社交媒体领域如何改变科学和技术的传播方式。

We also get into the topics of motivation, drive and purpose, both finding it and executing on that drive and purpose.

我们还探讨了动机、动力和目标的主题，找到它并根据该动力和目标执行。

I should mention that this is episode 100 of the Huberman Lab podcast.

我应该提到这是 Huberman Lab 播客的第 100 集。

And I would be remiss if I did not tell you that there would be no Huberman Lab podcast were it not for Lex Fridman.

如果我没有告诉你，如果没有 Lex Fridman，就不会有 Huberman Lab 播客，那就是我的失职。

I was a fan of the Lex Fridman Podcast long before I was ever invited on to the podcast as a guest.

早在我被邀请作为嘉宾参加播客之前，我就是莱克斯·弗里德曼播客的粉丝。

And after our first recording, Lex was the one that suggested that I start a podcast.

在我们第一次录音后，莱克斯建议我开始播客。

He only gave me two pieces of advice.

他只给了我两条建议。

The first piece of advice was, start a podcast.

第一条建议是，开始播客。

And the second piece of advice was that I not just make it me blabbing into the microphone and staring at the camera.

第二条建议是，我不要只是对着麦克风胡言乱语，盯着镜头。

So I can safely say that I at least followed half of his advice, and that I am ever grateful for Lex, both as a friend, a colleague in science, and now fellow podcaster for making the suggestion that we start this podcast.

所以我可以有把握地说，我至少听从了他一半的建议，而且我非常感谢莱克斯，无论是作为朋友、科学界的同事，还是现在的播客同事，他提出了我们开始这个播客的建议。

I already mentioned a few of the topics covered on today's podcast.

我已经提到了今天播客中涵盖的一些主题。

But I can assure you that there is far more to the person that many of us know as Lex Fridman.

但我可以向你保证，我们许多人所熟知的莱克斯·弗里德曼 (Lex Fridman) 的身份远不止于此。

If you are somebody interested in artificial intelligence, engineering or robotics, today's discussion is most certainly for you.

如果您对人工智能、工程或机器人技术感兴趣，那么今天的讨论肯定适合您。

And if you are not, but you are somebody who is interested in world politics, and more importantly, the human experience, both the individual and the collective human experience, Lex shares what can only be described as incredible insights into what he views as the human experience and what is optimal in order to derive from our time on this planet.

如果你不是，但你是一个对世界政治感兴趣的人，更重要的是，对人类经验，包括个人和集体的人类经验感兴趣，莱克斯分享了他所认为的人类经验以及从我们在这个星球上的时代中获得的最佳经验的令人难以置信的见解。

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。

In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。

Our first sponsor is LMNT.

我们的第一个赞助商是LMNT。

LMNT is an electrolyte drink with everything you need and nothing you don't.

LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，包含您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。

That means the electrolytes sodium, potassium and magnesium are in LMNT in the correct ratios.

这意味着 LMNT 中电解质的钠、钾和镁的比例正确。

But it has no sugar.

但它没有糖。

As I mentioned before on the podcast, electrolytes are critical to the function of every cell in the body, and especially the cells in your brain, meaning neurons or nerve cells.

正如我之前在播客中提到的，电解质对体内每个细胞的功能至关重要，尤其是大脑中的细胞，即神经元或神经细胞。

Indeed, the ability for nerve cells to be active and communicate with one another critically depends on sodium, potassium and magnesium.

事实上，神经细胞的活跃和相互交流的能力关键取决于钠、钾和镁。

You can get electrolytes from a variety of sources.

您可以从多种来源获取电解质。

But it's often hard to get them in the proper ratios, even from food.

但通常很难以适当的比例获取它们，即使是从食物中也是如此。

So if you're somebody who's exercising a lot and sweating, or if you're somebody following, for instance, a low-carbohydrate or even a semi-low-carbohydrate diet, that will cause you to excrete electrolytes.

因此，如果您经常锻炼并出汗，或者您遵循低碳水化合物甚至半低碳水化合物饮食，这会导致您排出电解质。

I tend to have my LMNT first thing in the morning when I wake up or within the first few hours of waking, any time while or after I'm exercising, or I've sweat a lot, such as exiting the sauna.

我倾向于在早上醒来时或醒来后的最初几个小时内进行 LMNT，在锻炼期间或之后的任何时间，或者出汗很多时（例如离开桑拿浴室）。

If you'd like to try LMNT you can go to …

如果您想尝试 LMNT，您可以访问……

to claim a free LMNT sample pack with your purchase.

购买时即可领取免费的 LMNT 样品包。

…

……

Today's episode is also brought to us by Levels.

今天的节目也是Levels给我们带来的。

Levels is a program that lets you see how different foods affect your health by giving you real-time feedback on your diet using a continuous glucose monitor.

Levels 是一个程序，通过使用连续血糖监测仪为您的饮食提供实时反馈，让您了解不同的食物如何影响您的健康。

Now blood glucose or blood sugar is a critical aspect of your immediate and long-term health, and indeed, your feelings of vigor and mental clarity and well-being at any moment.

现在，血糖是您近期和长期健康的一个重要方面，事实上，它是您随时感到活力、思维清晰和幸福的一个重要方面。

One of the key things is to know how different foods and food combinations and timing of food intake is impacting blood glucose.

关键的事情之一是了解不同的食物和食物组合以及食物摄入时间如何影响血糖。

And with Levels, you're able to assess all of that in real time.

通过级别，您可以实时评估所有这些。

I tried Levels.

我尝试过级别。

And what it taught me, for instance, was that I can eat certain foods at certain times of day.

例如，它教会我的是，我可以在一天中的特定时间吃某些食物。

But if I eat them at other times a day, I get a blood sugar crash.

但如果我在一天的其他时间吃它们，我的血糖就会崩溃。

It also taught me, for instance, how to space my exercise and my food intake.

例如，它还教会了我如何安排锻炼和食物摄入量。

It turns out for me, exercising fasted is far more beneficial.

事实证明，对我来说，禁食锻炼更有益。

That's something I learned using Levels.

这是我使用关卡学到的东西。

And it's completely transformed not just the spacing and timing of my diet and exercise, but also use of things like the sauna and other activities.

它不仅彻底改变了我的饮食和锻炼的间隔和时间，还彻底改变了我对桑拿和其他活动的使用。

It's been a tremendous learning for me that's really shaped an enormous number of factors in my life that have led to me feeling far more vigorous with far more mental focus and physical strength and endurance.

这对我来说是一次巨大的学习，它确实塑造了我生活中的许多因素，使我感觉更加精力充沛，精神更加集中，体力和耐力也更加出色。

So if you're interested in learning more about Levels and trying a continuous glucose monitor yourself, go to levels.link/Huberman.

因此，如果您有兴趣了解有关 Levels 的更多信息并亲自尝试连续血糖监测仪，请访问levels.link/Huberman。

Again that's levels.link, L-I-N-K, /Huberman.

这又是levels.link、L-I-N-K、/Huberman。

Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep.

今天的节目也是八觉给我们带来的。

Eight Sleep make smart mattress covers with cooling, heating and sleep tracking capacity.

八睡眠 (Eight Sleep) 制造的智能床垫套具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能。

I've talked many times on this podcast about the critical relationship between sleep and body temperature.

我在这个播客上多次谈到睡眠和体温之间的重要关系。

That is, in order to fall asleep and stay deeply asleep throughout the night, our body temperature needs to drop by about 1 to 3 degrees.

也就是说，为了入睡并整夜保持深度睡眠，我们的体温需要下降约1至3度。

And conversely when we wake up in the morning, that is in large part because of our body heating up by 1 to 3 degrees.

相反，当我们早上醒来时，这在很大程度上是因为我们的身体升温了 1 到 3 度。

Now people have different core body temperatures.

现在人们有不同的核心体温。

And they tend to run colder or hotter throughout the night.

而且它们往往会整个晚上变冷或变热。

Eight Sleep allows you to adjust the temperature of your sleeping environment so that you have the optimal temperature that gets you the best night's sleep.

八睡眠允许您调整睡眠环境的温度，以便您拥有最佳温度，让您获得最佳的夜间睡眠。

I started sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover about eight months ago.

大约八个月前，我开始睡在八睡眠床垫套上。

And it has completely transformed my sleep.

它彻底改变了我的睡眠。

I sleep so much deeper, I wake up far less during the middle of the night, if at all, and I wake up feeling far better than I ever have, even after the same amount of sleep.

我睡得更深，半夜醒来的次数也少得多（如果有的话），而且即使在相同的睡眠时间之后，我醒来时感觉比以往任何时候都好得多。

If you want to try Eight Sleep, you can go to eightsleep.com/Huberman to save up to $400 off their sleep-fit holiday bundle, which includes their new Pod 3 cover.

如果你想尝试八睡眠，你可以访问八睡眠.com/Huberman，从他们的睡眠健康假期套餐中节省高达 400 美元，其中包括他们的新 Pod 3 封面。

Eight Sleep currently ships in the U.S.A., Canada, United Kingdom, select countries in the E.U., and Australia.

八睡眠目前在美国、加拿大、英国、欧盟部分国家和澳大利亚发货。

Again, that's eightsleep.com/Huberman.

再说一遍，这是八睡眠.com/Huberman。

And now for my discussion with Dr. Lex Fridman, welcome back.

现在我将与 Lex Fridman 博士进行讨论，欢迎回来。

There would not be a Huberman Lab podcast were it not for Lex Fridman.

如果没有 Lex Fridman，就不会有 Huberman Lab 播客。

Because after recording as a guest on his podcast a few years ago, he made the suggestion that I start a podcast.

因为几年前在他的播客上以嘉宾身份录制后，他建议我开始播客。

And he explained to me how it works.

他向我解释了它是如何运作的。

And he said, "You should start a podcast.

他说：“你应该开始播客。

But just make sure that it's not you blabbing the whole time, Andrew." And I only sort of followed the advice.

但要确保不是你一直在胡言乱语，安德鲁。”我只是听从了建议。

I mean, the whole science community is proud of you, man.

我的意思是，整个科学界都为你感到骄傲，伙计。

Stanford is proud of you.

斯坦福大学为你感到骄傲。

So yeah, it's a beautiful thing.

所以是的，这是一件美丽的事情。

It was really surprising.

真是令人惊讶。

Because it's unclear how a scientist can do a great podcast that's not just shooting the shit about random stuff, but really is giving very structured, good advice that's boiling down the state-of-the-art science into something that's actually useful for people.

因为目前还不清楚一个科学家如何才能制作出一个伟大的播客，它不仅仅是拍摄随机的东西，而是真正提供非常结构化的、好的建议，将最先进的科学浓缩成对人们真正有用的东西。

So that was impressive.

这令人印象深刻。

It's like holy shit, he actually pulled this off.

这就像天哪，他真的成功了。

And doing it every week on a different topic — I mean, I'm usually positive, especially for people I love and support.

每周都会针对不同的主题进行——我的意思是，我通常很积极，尤其是对于我爱和支持的人。

But damn, I thought, there's no way he's going to be able to pull this off week after week.

但该死的，我想，他不可能一周又一周地成功。

And it's been only getting better and better and better.

而且它只会变得越来越好。

Had a whole rant on a recent podcast, I forget with who, of how awesome you are with Rana el Kaliouby.

在最近的一个播客上，我忘了和谁一起咆哮，你和拉娜·埃尔·卡利乌比 (Rana el Kaliouby) 有多棒。

She's a emotion recognition person, AI person.

她是一个情感识别人，人工智能人。

And then she didn't know who you were.

然后她就不知道你是谁了。

And I was like, what the hell do you mean?

我当时想，你到底是什么意思？

And I just went on this whole rant of how awesome you are.

我只是继续咆哮你有多棒。

It’s hilarious.

太搞笑了。

And look right back at you.

然后回头看看你。

I've followed a number of your structural formats.

我遵循了您的一些结构格式。

Attire, I don't wear a tie.

着装，我不打领带。

I'm constantly reminded about this by my father.

我父亲经常提醒我这一点。

So it feels great, and I love it.

所以感觉很棒，我喜欢它。

And again, I'm just grateful to you for inspiring it.

再次，我非常感谢你的启发。

And I just want to keep going and do more of it.

我只是想继续前进并做更多的事情。

And I should say I am also relieved that we're sitting here because you recently went overseas to a very intense war zone, literally, the Ukraine.

我应该说，我们坐在这里也让我松了一口气，因为你们最近去了海外一个非常激烈的战区，字面意思是乌克兰。

And the entire time that you were there, I was genuinely concerned.

你在那里的整个时间里，我真的很担心。

The world's an unpredictable place, in general.

总的来说，世界是一个不可预测的地方。

And we don't always get the only vote and what happens to us.

我们并不总是获得唯一的投票以及我们身上发生的事情。

So first of all, welcome back safely, one piece, one alive piece.

所以首先，欢迎安全回来，一件，一件活生生的事。

And what was that like?

那是什么样的？

I mean, at a broad level, at a specific level, what drew you there?

我的意思是，在广泛的层面上，在特定的层面上，是什么吸引你去那里？

What surprised you?

什么让你感到惊讶？

And how do you think it changed you in coming back here?

你认为回到这里对你有何改变？

The lack of corruption in that you can trust that if you start a business or if you take on various pursuits in life that there's not going to be at-scale manipulation of your efforts such that you can't succeed.

没有腐败，因为你可以相信，如果你创业或者在生活中从事各种追求，你的努力不会被大规模操纵，从而导致你无法成功。

So this kind of capitalism is in its — the ideal of capitalism is really still burning bright in this country.

所以这种资本主义在它的——资本主义的理想在这个国家确实仍然在燃烧着。

And it really makes you appreciate those aspects.

它确实让你欣赏这些方面。

And also just the ability to have a home for generations, across generations.

而且还有能力为世世代代拥有一个家。

So you can have your grandfather live in Kentucky in a certain city.

所以你可以让你的祖父住在肯塔基州的某个城市。

And then his children lived there, and you live there, and then it just continues on and on.

然后他的孩子住在那里，你也住在那里，然后就这样一直持续下去。

That's the kind of thing you can have when you don't have war.

这就是没有战争时你可以拥有的东西。

Because war destroys entire communities.

因为战争摧毁了整个社区。

And it destroys histories, generations, like life stories that stretch across the generations.

它摧毁了历史、世代，就像世代相传的生活故事一样。

So —

所以——

But I think — there's so many things I've learned and really felt the lessons.

但我认为——我学到了很多东西，也真正感受到了教训。

One of which is, nobody gives a damn when your photos are gone and all that kind of stuff, your house is gone.

其中之一是，当你的照片消失了，诸如此类的东西，你的房子消失了，没有人在乎。

The thing time and time again I saw for people that lost everything is how happy they are for the people.

我一次又一次地看到那些失去一切的人们为人民感到多么幸福。

They love the friends, the family that are still alive.

他们爱还活着的朋友和家人。

That's the only thing they talk about.

这是他们唯一谈论的事情。

That, in fact, they don't mention actually with much dramatic sort of vigor about the trauma of losing your home.

事实上，他们并没有以戏剧性的力度提及失去家园的创伤。

They're just non-stop saying how lucky they are that person X, person Y is still here.

他们只是不停地说他们多么幸运，X、Y 还在这里。

And that makes you realize that when you lose everything, it's still — it makes you realize what really matters, which is the people in your life.

这让你意识到，当你失去一切时，它仍然——它让你意识到真正重要的，那就是你生命中的人。

I mean, a lot of people kind of realize that later in life, when you're facing mortality, when you're facing your death, or you get a cancer diagnosis, that kind of stuff.

我的意思是，很多人都意识到，在以后的生活中，当你面临死亡时，当你面临死亡时，或者你被诊断出癌症之类的时候。

I think people here in America, in California, with the fires, you, you can still lose your home.

我认为美国加利福尼亚州的人们，在火灾中，你们仍然可能失去家园。

You are going to realize, like, nah.

你会意识到，不。

It doesn't really matter.

这并不重要。

It's a pain in the ass but what matters is still the family, the people, and so on.

这是一件令人痛苦的事情，但重要的仍然是家庭、人民等等。

I think the most intense thing — I talked to several hundred people, some of which is recorded.

我认为最激烈的事情是——我与数百人交谈，其中一些被记录下来。

I've really been struggling to put that out because I have to edit it myself.

我真的一直在努力把它写出来，因为我必须自己编辑它。

And so you're talking about 30, 40 hours of footage, and it —

所以你谈论的是 30、40 小时的镜头，而且它 -

But the ones that are really hard to edit is like grandmas that are in the middle of nowhere.

但那些真正难以编辑的内容就像是在偏僻的地方的祖母。

They lost everything.

他们失去了一切。

They still have hope, they still have love.

他们还有希望，他们还有爱。

And some of them have — some of them, many of them, unfortunately, have now hate in their heart.

他们中的一些人——他们中的一些人，不幸的是，他们中的许多人现在心中怀有仇恨。

So in February, when Russia invaded Ukraine, this is the thing I realized about war.

所以二月份，当俄罗斯入侵乌克兰时，这就是我对战争的认识。

One of the most painful one, lessons is that war creates generational hate.

最痛苦的教训之一是战争造成代际仇恨。

We sometimes think about war as a thing that kills people, kills civilians, kills soldiers, takes away lives, injures people.

我们有时认为战争是一种杀人、杀害平民、杀害士兵、夺走生命、伤害他人的事情。

But we don't directly think about the secondary and tertiary effects of that which lasts decades.

但我们并没有直接考虑持续数十年的二次和三次影响。

Which is anyone who's lost the father or a mother or a daughter or a son, they now hate not just the individual soldiers or the leaders that invaded their country but the entirety of the people.

任何失去父亲、母亲、女儿或儿子的人，现在不仅憎恨入侵他们国家的个别士兵或领导人，而且憎恨全体人民。

So it's not that they hate Vladimir Putin or hate the Russian military.

所以这并不是说他们讨厌弗拉基米尔·普京或俄罗斯军队。

They hate Russian people.

他们讨厌俄罗斯人。

So that tears the fabric of a thing that, for me — my, half my family's from Ukraine, half of my family is from Russia.

因此，这撕裂了一个事物的结构，对我来说——我的，我的一半家庭来自乌克兰，我的一半家庭来自俄罗斯。

But there is — I remember the pain, the triumph of World War II  still resonates through my entire family tree.

但我记得二战的痛苦和胜利仍然在我的整个家谱中产生共鸣。

And so, you remember when the Russians and Ukrainians fought together against this Nazi invasion.

所以，你还记得当俄罗斯人和乌克兰人一起对抗纳粹入侵时。

You remember a lot of that.

你记得很多。

And now, to see the fabric of these peoples torn apart completely with hate is really, really difficult.

现在，看到这些人民的结构被仇恨完全撕裂真的非常困难。

For me, just to realize that things will just never be the same on this particular cultural, historical aspect.

对我来说，只是为了意识到在这个特定的文化、历史方面事情永远不会一样。

But also, there's so many painful ways in which things will never be the same.

但同时，有很多痛苦的方式让事情永远不会一样。

Which is we've seen that it's possible to have a major hot war in the 21st century.

我们已经看到，21世纪有可能发生一场大规模的热战。

I think a lot of people are watching this.

我想很多人都在看这个。

China is watching this.

中国正在关注此事。

India is watching this.

印度正在关注此事。

United States is watching this and thinking we can actually have a large-scale war.

美国正在关注这一点，并认为我们实际上可以爆发一场大规模战争。

And I think the lessons learned from that.

我认为从中吸取的教训。

Might be the kind that lead to a major World War III in the 21st century.

可能会导致21世纪的第三次世界大战。

So one of the things I realized watching the whole scene is that we don't know shit about what's going to happen in the 21st century.

所以我在观看整个场景时意识到的一件事是，我们根本不知道 21 世纪会发生什么。

And it might — we kind of have this intuition like surely there's not going to be another war.

可能——我们有这样的直觉，就像肯定不会再发生另一场战争。

And 20 years after that, the rise of Nazi Germany.

20年后，纳粹德国崛起。

A charismatic leader that captivated the minds of millions and built up a military that can take on the whole world.

一位魅力非凡的领导人吸引了数百万人的心，并建立了一支可以对抗全世界的军队。

And so it makes you realize that this is still possible.

所以它让你意识到这仍然是可能的。

This is still possible.

这还是有可能的。

And then the tension.

然后是紧张。

You see this — the media machine, the propaganda machine, that I've gotten to see every aspect of.

你看这个——媒体机器、宣传机器，我已经看到了它的方方面面。

It's still fueling that division between America and China.

它仍在加剧美国和中国之间的分歧。

Between Russia and India.

俄罗斯和印度之间。

And then Africa has a complicated thing that's trying to figure out who are they with, who are they against.

非洲面临着一件复杂的事情，它试图弄清楚他们支持谁，反对谁。

And just this tension is building and building.

而这种紧张局势正在不断加剧。

And like it makes you realize like we might — the thing that might shake human civilization may not be so far off.

就像它让你像我们一样意识到——可能动摇人类文明的事情可能并不遥远。

That's a realization you get to really feel.

这是你真正感受到的认识。

I mean, there's all kinds of other lessons.

我的意思是，还有各种各样的其他课程。

And one of which is propaganda.

其中之一就是宣传。

Is, I got to — I get a lot of letters, emails.

是的，我必须——我收到很多信件、电子邮件。

And some of them are full of really intense language, full of hate from every side toward me.

其中一些充满了非常激烈的语言，充满了来自各方对我的仇恨。

Or, well, the hate is towards me as representing side X.

或者，好吧，仇恨是针对我作为 X 方的代表。

And X stands as a variable for every side.

X 代表每一方的变量。

So either I'm a Zelensky show, or I'm a Putin show, or I'm a NATO show, or I'm an America — America show — American empire show.

所以要么我是泽伦斯基秀，要么我是普京秀，要么我是北约秀，要么我是美国——美国——美帝国秀。

Or I'm a Democrat or a Republican.

或者我是民主党人或共和党人。

Because it's already been, in this country, politicized.

因为在这个国家它已经被政治化了。

I think there's a sense of Ukraine is, this place that's full of corruption.

我认为乌克兰有一种感觉，这个地方充满了腐败。

Why are we sending money there?

我们为什么要寄钱到那里？

I think that's kind of the messaging on the Republican side.

我认为这就是共和党方面发出的信息。

On the Democratic side — I'm not even keeping track of the actual messaging and the conspiracy theories and the narratives, but they are — the tension is there.

在民主党方面——我什至没有跟踪实际的信息、阴谋论和叙述，但它们是——紧张局势就在那里。

And I get to feel it directly.

我可以直接感受到它。

And what you get to really experience is there's a large number of narratives that all are extremely confident themselves that they know the truth.

你真正体验到的是，有大量的叙述，所有人都非常自信地相信自己知道真相。

People are convinced, first of all, that they're not being lied to.

首先，人们确信他们没有被欺骗。

People in Russia think there's no propaganda.

俄罗斯人认为没有宣传。

They think that, yes, yes, there is like state-sponsored propaganda, but we're all smart enough to ignore the lame propaganda that's everywhere.

他们认为，是的，是的，确实有国家资助的宣传，但我们都很聪明，能够忽视无处不在的蹩脚宣传。

They know that we can think on our own, we know the truth, and everybody kind of speaks in this way.

他们知道我们可以独立思考，我们知道真相，每个人都这样说话。

Everybody in the United States says, well, yes, there's mainstream media, they're full of messaging and propaganda, but we're smart.

美国的每个人都说，嗯，是的，有主流媒体，他们充满了信息和宣传，但我们很聪明。

We can think on our own.

我们可以自己思考。

Of course, we see through that.

当然，我们看透了这一点。

Everybody says this.

大家都这么说。

And then the conclusion of their thought is often hatred towards some group, whatever that group is.

然后他们的想法的结论往往是对某个群体的仇恨，无论这个群体是什么。

And the more you've lost, the more intense the feeling of hatred.

而且失去的越多，仇恨的感觉就越强烈。

It's a really difficult field to walk through calmly and with an open mind and try to understand what's really going on.

这是一个非常困难的领域，要以开放的心态冷静地走过并尝试了解到底发生了什么。

It's not — they know that ultimately the thing that helps them and helps everyone is to feel love for fellow man, but they can't help it.

事实并非如此——他们知道最终帮助他们和帮助每个人的事情是感受到对同胞的爱，但他们无法控制。

They know.

他们知道。

It's like a drug, they say like hate escalates, it's like a vicious spiral.

他们说，这就像毒品一样，就像仇恨升级一样，就像一个恶性循环。

You just can't help it.

你就是无能为力。

And the question I also asked is, do you think you'll ever be able to forgive Russia?

我还问的问题是，你认为你能够原谅俄罗斯吗？

And after much thought almost — it's split, but most people will say no. I will never be able to forgive.

经过深思熟虑后——它是分裂的，但大多数人都会说不。我永远无法原谅。

And I remember when the pandemic hit, he said on a text thread, you know, Americans aren't used to the government interfering with their plans.

我记得当大流行来袭时，他在一条短信中说，你知道，美国人不习惯政府干预他们的计划。

Around the world, many people are familiar with governments dramatically interfering with their plans.

在世界各地，许多人都熟悉政府大力干预他们的计划。

Sometimes even in a seemingly random way.

有时甚至以看似随机的方式。

Here we were not braced for that.

在这里我们并没有做好准备。

I mean, we get speeding tickets, and there's lines to vote and things like that.

我的意思是，我们收到超速罚单，还有投票的队伍等等。

But I think the pandemic was one of the first times, at least in my life, that I can remember where it really seemed like the government was impeding what people naturally wanted to do.

但我认为，至少在我的一生中，这场大流行是我第一次记得政府似乎真的在阻碍人们自然想做的事情。

And that was a shock for people here.

这对这里的人们来说是一个震惊。

And I have a what might seem like a somewhat mundane question, but it's something that I saw on social media.

我有一个看似平凡的问题，但这是我在社交媒体上看到的。

A lot of people were asking me to ask you, and I was curious about too.

很多人问我，我也很好奇。

What was a typical day like over there?

那里典型的一天是什么样的？

Were sleeping in a bed, were you sleeping on the ground?

你是睡在床上还是睡在地上？

Everyone seems to want to know.

每个人似乎都想知道。

What were you eating?

你吃的是什么？

Were you eating once a day?

你一天吃一次吗？

Were you eating your steak?

你吃牛排了吗？

Or were you — were you in fairly deprived conditions over there?

或者你——你在那里的条件相当贫困吗？

I saw a couple photos that you posted out of doors in front of rubble.

我看到你在户外瓦砾前张贴的几张照片。

With pith helmet on in one case.

在一种情况下，戴着髓头盔。

What was that typical day like over there?

那里典型的一天是什么样的？

So the times I spent in Kyiv were fundamentally different than the time I spent at the front.

所以我在基辅度过的时光与我在前线度过的时光根本不同。

And I went to the Kherson region, which is where a lot of really heated battle was happening.

我去了赫尔松地区，那里发生了很多非常激烈的战斗。

There's several areas.

有几个领域。

So there's Kharkiv.

这就是哈尔科夫。

It's in the Northeast of the country.

它位于该国的东北部。

And then there's Donbas region, which is East of the country.

然后是该国东部的顿巴斯地区。

And then there's Kherson region, which, by the way, I'm not good at geography, so is the Southeast of the country.

然后是赫尔松地区，顺便说一句，我不擅长地理，该国的东南部也是如此。

And that's where, at least when I was there, was a lot of really heated fighting happening.

至少当我在那里的时候，那里发生了很多非常激烈的战斗。

So when I was in the Kherson region, it's what you would imagine.

所以当我在赫尔松地区时，这就是你所想象的。

The place — I stayed in a hotel where all the lights have to stay off.

这个地方——我住在一家酒店，所有的灯都必须关闭。

So the entire town, all the lights are off.

于是整个小镇所有的灯都灭了。

You have to navigate through the darkness and use your phone to shine, and so on.

你必须穿越黑暗并使用你的手机发光，等等。

In terms of food — so there's a curfew.

就食物而言——所以有宵禁。

So, depends on what part of the country.

所以，这取决于该国的哪个地区。

But usually, you basically have to scamper home like 9:00 p.m.

但通常情况下，你基本上必须在晚上 9:00 左右跑回家。

So the hard curfew in a lot of places is 11:00 p.m.

所以很多地方的严格宵禁时间是晚上 11:00。

at night.

晚上。

But by then, you have to be home.

但到那时，你必须回家了。

So — in some places, it's 10:00.

所以，在某些地方，时间是 10:00。

So at 9:00 p.m., you start going home.

晚上 9:00，您开始回家。

Which, for me, was kind of wonderful also because I get to spend — I get to be forced to spend time alone and think for many hours in wherever I'm staying.

对我来说，这也很美妙，因为无论我住在哪里，我都不得不花时间独处并思考很多时间。

Which is really nice.

这真的很好。

And everywhere there's a calmness and the quietness to the whole thing.

整个事情到处都是平静和安静。

In terms of food, once a day.

在食物方面，每天一次。

Just the food is incredibly cheap and incredibly delicious.

只是食物非常便宜而且非常美味。

People are still — one of the things they can still take pride in is making the best possible food they can.

人们依然——他们仍然可以引以为傲的事情之一就是尽其所能地制作最好的食物。

So meat — but they do admire American meat, so the meat is not as great as it could be in that country.

所以肉——但他们确实很欣赏美国的肉，所以肉不像那个国家的那么好。

But I ate borsch every day, all that kind of stuff.

但我每天都吃罗宋汤之类的东西。

Mostly meat.

主要是肉。

So spend the entire day — wake up in the morning with coffee, spend the entire day talking to people.

因此，花一整天的时间——早上喝咖啡醒来，花一整天的时间与人交谈。

Which for me is very difficult because of the intensity of the story.

由于故事的强度，这对我来说非常困难。

It's one after the other after the other.

这是一个接着一个接着另一个。

We just talk to regular people, talk to soldiers, talk to politicians, all kinds of soldiers.

我们只是与普通人交谈，与士兵交谈，与政客交谈，与各种士兵交谈。

I talked to people there who are doing rescue missions, so Americans.

我与那里正在执行救援任务的人进行了交谈，其中包括美国人。

I hung out with Tim Kennedy.

我和蒂姆·肯尼迪一起出去玩。

And one of the things I heard time and time again, which what's really interesting to me, that Ukrainian soldiers said that comparing Ukrainian, Russian and American soldiers, American soldiers are the bravest, which was very interesting for me to hear given how high the morale is for the Ukrainian soldiers.

我一次又一次听到的一件事对我来说非常有趣，那就是乌克兰士兵说，与乌克兰、俄罗斯和美国士兵相比，美国士兵是最勇敢的，考虑到乌克兰士兵的士气有多高，这对我来说很有趣。

But that just reveals that training enables you to be brave.

但这恰恰表明训练可以让你变得勇敢。

So it's not just about how well trained they are and so on, it's how intense and ferocious they are in the fighting.

所以这不仅仅是他们训练有素等等的问题，而是他们在战斗中的激烈和凶猛。

And it makes you realize, this is American army, not just through the technology, especially the Special Force guys.

它让你意识到，这是美国军队，不仅仅是通过技术，特别是特种部队的人员。

They're still one of the most effective and terrifying armies in the world.

他们仍然是世界上最有效、最可怕的军队之一。

And listen, just for context, I'm somebody who is, for the most part, anti-war, a pacifist.

听着，只是为了了解背景，我在很大程度上是一个反战和平主义者。

But you get to see some of the realities of war kind of wake you up to what needs to get done to protect sovereignty, to protect some of the values, to protect civilians and homes and all that kind of stuff.

但你会看到战争的一些现实会唤醒你需要采取哪些措施来保护主权、保护某些价值观、保护平民和家园以及诸如此类的事情。

Sometimes war has to happen.

有时战争是必须发生的。

And I should also mention the Russian side because while I haven't gotten to experience the Russian side yet I do fully plan to travel to Russia, as I've told everybody.

我还应该提到俄罗斯方面，因为虽然我还没有体验俄罗斯方面，但正如我告诉大家的那样，我确实计划去俄罗斯旅行。

I was very upfront with everybody about this.

我对每个人都非常坦率地谈论这件事。

I would like to hear the story of Russians.

我想听听俄罗斯人的故事。

But I do know from the Ukrainian side, like the grandmas — I love grandmas.

但我确实知道乌克兰方面，就像祖母一样——我爱祖母。

They told me stories that the Russians really — the ones that entered their villages, they really, really believed they're saving Ukraine from Nazis, from Nazi occupation.

他们告诉我，俄罗斯人真的——那些进入他们村庄的人，他们真的非常相信他们正在将乌克兰从纳粹手中拯救出来，从纳粹占领中拯救出来。

So they feel that Ukraine is under control of Nazi organizations and they believe they're saving the country that's their brothers and sisters.

所以他们觉得乌克兰处于纳粹组织的控制之下，他们相信他们正在拯救他们兄弟姐妹的国家。

I think propaganda and I think truth is a very difficult thing to arrive with in that war zone.

我认为在那个战区，宣传和真相是一件非常困难的事情。

I think in the 21st century, one of the things you realize that so much of war, even more so than in the past, is an information war.

我认为在 21 世纪，你会意识到，如此多的战争，甚至比过去更多，是一场信息战。

And people that just use Twitter for their source of information might be surprised to know how much misinformation there is on Twitter, like real narratives being sold, and so it's really hard to know who to believe.

那些只使用 Twitter 作为信息来源的人可能会惊讶地发现 Twitter 上有多少错误信息，比如正在出售的真实故事，因此很难知道该相信谁。

And through all of that you have to try to keep an open mind and ultimately ignore the powerful and listen to actual citizens, actual people.

在经历这一切的过程中，你必须努力保持开放的心态，最终忽视强权，倾听真正的公民、真实的人的声音。

That's the other maybe obvious lesson, is that war is waged by powerful, rich people, and it's the poor people that suffer.

这是另一个可能显而易见的教训，那就是战争是由有权有势的富人发动的，而受苦的是穷人。

And that's just visible time and time again.

这是一次又一次可见的。

You put somebody into a small box of confinement and some people break under those conditions, and other people find entire stories within a centimeter of concrete that can occupy them, real stories and richness or humor or love or fascination and surprise.

你把某人关进一个小盒子里，有些人在这种条件下崩溃了，而另一些人在一厘米的混凝土中发现了可以占据他们的整个故事，真实的故事和丰富性或幽默或爱或迷恋和惊喜。

And I find this so interesting that the mind is so adaptable.

我发现这很有趣，因为头脑的适应能力很强。

We talked about creature comforts and then lack of creature comforts and the way that we can adapt, and yet, humans are always striving, it seems, or one would hope, for these better conditions to better their conditions.

我们讨论了物质享受，然后讨论了物质享受的缺乏以及我们能够适应的方式，然而，人类似乎或希望通过这些更好的条件来改善他们的条件，总是在努力。

So as you've come back — and you've been here now back in the States for how long after your trip?

那么，当您回来后，您在旅行结束后已经回到美国多久了？

The reason I started taking Athletic Greens and the reason I still take Athletic Greens, once or usually twice a day, is that it gets me the probiotics that I need for gut health.

我开始服用运动绿色食品的原因以及我仍然服用运动绿色食品的原因（通常每天一次或两次）是因为它可以为我提供肠道健康所需的益生菌。

Our gut is very important.

我们的直觉非常重要。

It's populated by gut microbiota that communicate with the brain, the immune system, and basically all the biological systems of our body to strongly impact our immediate and long-term health, and those probiotics in Athletic Greens are optimal and vital for microbiotic health.

它由肠道微生物群组成，它们与大脑、免疫系统以及我们身体的所有生物系统进行交流，对我们的近期和长期健康产生强烈影响，而运动绿中的益生菌对于微生物健康来说是最佳且至关重要的。

In addition, Athletic Greens contains a number of adaptogens, vitamins, and minerals that make sure that all of my foundational nutritional needs are met, and it tastes great.

此外，运动绿叶蔬菜还含有多种适应原、维生素和矿物质，可确保满足我所有的基本营养需求，而且味道极佳。

If you'd like to try Athletic Greens, you can go to athleticgreens.com/huberman and they'll give you five free travel packs that make it really easy to mix up Athletic Greens while you're on the road, in the car, on the plane, et cetera, and they'll give you a year supply of vitamin D3, K2.

如果您想尝试 Athletic Greens，您可以访问 Athletic Greens.com/huberman，他们会为您提供 5 个免费旅行包，让您在路上、车里、飞机上等时轻松混合 Athletic Greens，而且他们还会为您提供一年的维生素 D3、K2。

Again, that's athleticgreens.com/huberman to get the five free travel packs and the year supply of vitamin D3, K2.

再次强调，您可以访问 sportsgreens.com/huberman 获取 5 个免费旅行包以及全年供应的维生素 D3、K2。

I know I speak for many people when I say that we are very happy that you're back.

我知道当我说我们很高兴你回来时，我代表了很多人。

We know that it's not going to be the first and last trip, that there will be others, and that you'll be going to Russia as well and presumably other places as well in order to explore.

我们知道这不会是第一次也是最后一次旅行，还会有其他旅行，而且您还会去俄罗斯，可能还会去其他地方进行探索。

And I have to say, as a podcaster and as your friend, I was really inspired at your sense of adventure and your sense of not just adventure, but thoughtful, respectful adventure.

我不得不说，作为一名播客和你的朋友，我真的被你的冒险精神所启发，你的冒险精神不仅是冒险，而且是深思熟虑的、尊重的冒险。

You understood what you were doing.

你明白你在做什么。

You weren't just going there to get some wartime footage or something.

你去那里不仅仅是为了获取一些战时镜头或其他东西。

This wasn't a kick or a thrill.

这不是一种刺激或刺激。

This is really serious and remains serious.

这确实很严重，而且仍然很严重。

So thank you for doing it, and please, next time you go, bring Tim Kennedy again.

谢谢你的帮助，下次你去的时候，请再带上蒂姆·肯尼迪。

But I do many things of this nature because the heart pulls towards that.

但我做很多这种性质的事情是因为内心的推动。

But also there's a freedom to not — I'm afraid of death, but I think there's a freedom to — it's almost like, OK, if I die, I want to take full advantage of not having a family currently.

但也有一种不去的自由——我害怕死亡，但我认为有一种自由——这几乎就像，好吧，如果我死了，我想充分利用目前没有家庭的优势。

I feel like when you have a family, there's a responsibility for others, so you immediately become more conservative and careful.

我觉得当你有了家庭，就有了对别人的责任，所以你立刻变得更加保守和谨慎。

I feel like I want to take full advantage of this particular moment in my life when you can be a little bit more accepting of risk.

我觉得我想充分利用生命中这个特殊的时刻，那时你可以更加接受风险。

As people warm up again there's increased blood flow to the testicles, and in women it seems there's probably increased blood flow to the reproductive organs as well, after people warm back up.

当人们再次热身时，流向睾丸的血流量会增加，而对于女性来说，在人们热身回来后，流向生殖器官的血流量似乎也会增加。

So that seems to cause some sort of hyper nourishment of the various cells, the Sertoli and Leydig cells of the testes, that leads to increased output of testosterone, and in women testosterone as well.

因此，这似乎会导致各种细胞（睾丸的支持细胞和间质细胞）过度营养，从而导致睾酮分泌增加，女性睾酮分泌也同样如此。

So the cold exposure in any case is obviously a — do you do the ice bath?

因此，无论如何，寒冷暴露显然是——你会洗冰浴吗？

Are you into that?

你喜欢吗？

Yeah.

是的。

So I usually, for the most part, I would try to have a bunch of sweats, garbage bags, and all that kind of stuff, and run.

所以我通常，在大多数情况下，我会尝试穿上一堆汗水、垃圾袋和所有类似的东西，然后跑步。

It's easier because you can distract the mind.

这更容易，因为你可以分散注意力。

In the sauna you can't distract the mind.

在桑拿房里你无法分散注意力。

It's just, and all the excuses and all the weaknesses in your mind just coming to the surface, and you're just sitting there and sweating — or not sweating.

只是，你脑子里的所有借口和所有弱点都浮出水面，而你只是坐在那里出汗——或者不出汗。

That's the worst.

那是最糟糕的。

So for people that — sperm are on a 60-day sperm cycle, so if you're trying to donate sperm — because that's what got us onto this — or fertilize an egg or eggs in whatever format, dish or in vivo, as we say in science, which means — well, you can look it up, folks.

因此，对于人们来说，精子的周期为 60 天，所以如果你想捐献精子，因为这就是让我们这么做的原因，或者以任何形式、培养皿或体内使一个或多个卵子受精，正如我们在科学中所说的，这意味着，好吧，伙计们，你可以查一下。

The 60-day sperm cycle.

60天的精子周期。

So if you go into a really hot sauna or a hot bath or a hot tub, in 60 days those sperm are going to be — a significantly greater portion of them will be dead, will be non-viable.

因此，如果您进入非常热的桑拿房、热水浴或热水浴缸，60 天内，这些精子中的很大一部分将会死亡，无法存活。

So there's a simple solution.

所以有一个简单的解决方案。

People just put an ice pack down there or a jar, not this jar, but a jar of cold fluid between their legs and just sit there, or they go back and forth between the ice bath and the sauna.

人们只是把一个冰袋或一个罐子放在那里，不是这个罐子，而是一罐冷液体放在他们的腿之间，然后坐在那里，或者他们在冰浴和桑拿之间来回走动。

But you probably — if you're going to go back over there you should freeze sperm.

但你可能——如果你要回到那里，你应该冷冻精子。

We're going to do a couple episodes on fertility when it's relatively inexpensive.

当生育力相对便宜时，我们将制作几集有关生育力的剧集。

And you're young so you probably do it now because there is an association with autism as males get older.

而且你还年轻，所以你可能现在就这样做，因为随着男性年龄的增长，自闭症与自闭症有关。

It's not a strong one.

这不是一个很强的人。

It's significant but it's still a small contribution to the autism phenotype.

这很重要，但对自闭症表型的贡献仍然很小。

And typically it's been the wealthier countries that have been able to do more research for sake of research and development and prioritization.

通常，较富裕的国家能够为了研究、开发和优先顺序而进行更多研究。

Certainly Ukraine had some marvelous universities and marvelous scientists.

当然，乌克兰有一些出色的大学和出色的科学家。

What's going on with science and scientists over there?

那里的科学和科学家怎么了？

And gosh, can we even calculate the loss of discovery that is occurring as a consequence of this conflict?

天哪，我们甚至可以计算由于这场冲突而导致的发现损失吗？

And everybody you know would be really proud that you're fighting, even though everyone tries to convince, Andrew Huberman, you have much better ways to contribute.

你认识的每个人都会为你的战斗感到自豪，尽管每个人都试图说服安德鲁·休伯曼，你有更好的方式来做出贡献。

There's deep honor in fighting for your country, yes, but there are better ways to contribute to your country than just picking up a gun that you're not that trained with and going to the front.

是的，为你的国家而战是一种深深的荣誉，但有更好的方式为你的国家做出贡献，而不是拿起一把你没有受过训练的枪并前往前线。

Still, they do it.

尽管如此，他们还是这么做了。

Scientists, engineers, CEOs, professors, students —

科学家、工程师、首席执行官、教授、学生——

So it's like if you're a scientist it feels like what — it feels almost like you're dishonoring humanity by continuing to do things you were doing before.

所以，如果你是一名科学家，你的感觉就像是——感觉就像你继续做你以前做过的事情，从而羞辱了人类。

There's a lot of people that converted to being soldiers.

有很多人转行当兵。

They literally watch a YouTube video of how to shoot a particular gun, how to arm a drone with a grenade.

他们确实观看了 YouTube 视频，了解如何射击特定的枪，如何为无人机配备手榴弹。

If you're a tech person you know how to work with drones, so you're going to use that, use whatever skills you got, figure out whatever skills you got and how to use them to help the effort on the front.

如果你是一名技术人员，你知道如何使用无人机，所以你将使用它，使用你拥有的任何技能，弄清楚你拥有的任何技能以及如何使用它们来帮助前线的工作。

And so that's a big hit.

所以这很受欢迎。

But that said, I've talked to a lot of folks in Kyiv — faculty primarily in the tech economics space, so I didn't get a chance to interact with folks who are on the biology, chemistry, neuroscience side of things, but that still goes on.

但话虽如此，我已经与基辅的很多人交谈过——主要是科技经济领域的教师，所以我没有机会与生物学、化学、神经科学方面的人互动，但这种情况仍在继续。

So one of the really impressive things about Ukraine is that they're able to maintain infrastructure like road, food supply, all that kind of stuff, education, while the war is going on, especially in Kyiv.

因此，乌克兰真正令人印象深刻的事情之一是，他们能够在战争进行期间维持道路、食品供应等基础设施、教育等基础设施，尤其是在基辅。

The war started where nobody knew whether Kyiv was going to be taken by the Russian forces.

战争开始时，没有人知道基辅是否会被俄罗斯军队占领。

It was surrounded.

它被包围了。

And a lot of experts from outside were convinced that Russia would take Kyiv, and they didn't.

许多外部专家都相信俄罗斯会占领基辅，但他们没有。

And one of the really impressive things as a leader — one of the things I really experienced is that a lot of people criticized Zelenskyy before the war.

作为一名领导人，最令人印象深刻的事情之一——我真正经历过的事情之一是，很多人在战前批评泽连斯基。

He only had about 30% approval rate.

他的支持率只有30%左右。

A lot of people didn't like Zelenskyy.

很多人不喜欢泽连斯基。

But one of the great things he did as a leader, which I'm not sure many leaders would be able to do, is when Kyiv was clearly being invaded he chose to stay.

但他作为领导人所做的一件伟大的事情，我不确定许多领导人是否能够做到，就是当基辅明显受到入侵时，他选择留下来。

He stayed in the capital.

他留在了首都。

Everybody, all the American military, the intelligence agencies, NATO, his own staff, advisors all told him to flee, and he stayed.

每个人，所有美国军队、情报机构、北约、他自己的工作人员、顾问都告诉他逃跑，他留下了。

And so I think that was a beacon, a symbol for the rest, for the universities, for science, for the infrastructure that we're staying too, and that kept the whole thing going.

所以我认为这是一个灯塔，是其他地方、大学、科学、我们留下的基础设施的象征，它让整个事情得以继续。

There's an interesting social experiment that happened, I think, for folks who are interested in gun control in this country in particular, is one of the decisions they made early on is to give guns to everybody.

我认为，对于那些对这个国家的枪支管制特别感兴趣的人来说，发生了一个有趣的社会实验，他们早期做出的决定之一就是向所有人提供枪支。

Semi-automatics.

半自动。

You realize, well, there's going to be a self-correcting mechanism very quickly because the rule of law was also put aside, right?

你意识到，很快就会有一个自我纠正机制，因为法治也被搁置了，对吗？

Basically the police force lost a lot of power because everybody else has guns and they're kind of taking the law into their own hands.

基本上，警察部队失去了很多权力，因为其他人都有枪，他们将法律掌握在自己手中。

That system, at least in this particular case in this particular moment in human history, worked.

这个系统，至少在人类历史上这个特殊时刻的特殊情况下，发挥了作用。

It's an interesting lesson, you know?

这是一堂有趣的课，你知道吗？

And then I flew to the San Francisco Bay Area, was walking by an elementary school in my old neighborhood and saw a similar sticker and looked at it, and it said, no peanuts or other allergy-containing foods past this point on the door of this elementary school.

然后我飞到了旧金山湾区，路过我老家附近的一所小学时，看到了一张类似的贴纸，看了看，上面写着，这所小学的门上没有超过这个点的花生或其他含过敏的食物。

So quite a different contrast, guns and peanuts.

这是截然不同的对比，枪和花生。

Now, peanut allergies, obviously, are very serious for some people, although there's great research out of Stanford showing that early exposure to peanuts can prevent the allergies.

现在，花生过敏显然对某些人来说非常严重，尽管斯坦福大学的大量研究表明，早期接触花生可以预防过敏。

But don't start rubbing yourself in peanut butter, folks, if you have a peanut allergy.

但是，如果您对花生过敏，请不要开始在自己身上涂花生酱。

That's not the best way to deal with it.

这不是最好的处理方式。

In any case, the contrast of what's dangerous, the contrast of the familiarity with guns versus no familiarity.

无论如何，危险的对比，熟悉枪支与不熟悉枪支的对比。

In Israel and elsewhere you see machine guns in the airport.

在以色列和其他地方，你可以在机场看到机枪。

In Germany, Frankfurt, you see machine guns in the airport.

在德国法兰克福，机场里随处可见机枪。

Not so common in the United States.

在美国并不常见。

So again, I feel like there's this aperture of vision.

再说一次，我觉得有这个视野。

There's this aperture of pleasures versus creature comforts and lack of creature comforts, and then there's this aperture of danger, right?

存在着快乐与物质享受和缺乏物质享受之间的鸿沟，然后还有危险的鸿沟，对吗？

People who are familiar with guns are familiar with people coming in and setting their firearm on the table and eating dinner, you know?

熟悉枪支的人都熟悉人们进来并将枪支放在桌子上吃晚饭，你知道吗？

But if you're not accustomed to that it's jarring, right?

但如果你不习惯的话，那会很不舒服，对吧？

Everybody freaks out.

每个人都吓坏了。

The second one is a huge drop off in how freaked out you get.

第二个是你的恐惧程度大幅下降。

And in a matter of days, sometimes hours, it becomes the normal.

几天后，有时甚至几个小时后，这就会成为常态。

I've talked to so many people in Kharkiv, which is one of the towns that's seen a lot of heated battle.

我在哈尔科夫与很多人交谈过，这是发生过很多激烈战斗的城镇之一。

You ask them, is it safe there?

你问他们那里安全吗？

In fact, when I went to the — closer and closer to the war zone you ask people, is it safe?

事实上，当我去——越来越接近战区时，你会问人们，那里安全吗？

And their answer's usually, yeah, it's pretty safe.

他们的回答通常是，是的，这非常安全。

In fact, I don't like the destruction they cause, but every once in a while an earthquake will roll through and it's kind of exciting.

事实上，我不喜欢它们造成的破坏，但每隔一段时间就会发生地震，这有点令人兴奋。

It sounds like a train coming through.

听起来就像有火车驶过。

It's like, wow, like the earth is moving.

就像，哇，就像地球在移动。

You know?

你知道？

Again, I don't want anyone to get harmed, but I enjoy a good rumble coming through nonetheless.

再说一次，我不想让任何人受到伤害，但尽管如此，我还是喜欢发出良好的隆隆声。

It's signal to noise.

这是信噪比。

But if I saw a tornado I'd freak out, and people from the Midwest are probably comfortable with — Dan Gable, the great wrestler from the Midwest that you know and I've never met but I have great respect for, he's probably — sees a tornado and is like, ah, yeah.

但如果我看到龙卷风，我会吓坏了，来自中西部的人可能会感到舒服——丹·盖博，一位来自中西部的伟大摔跤手，你知道，我从未见过，但我非常尊重，他可能——看到龙卷风，就像，啊，是的。

Maybe.

或许。

Yeah.

是的。

You know?

你知道？

So I think signal to noise is real.

所以我认为信噪比是真实的。

Before I neglect, although I won't forget, speaking of signal to noise and environment, you are returning to or have gone back to one of your original natural habitats, which is the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, which is —

在我忽略之前，虽然我不会忘记，说到信号与噪音和环境，你正在返回或已经回到你原来的自然栖息地之一，那就是麻省理工学院，它是——

I'm a sucker for that.

我对此很着迷。

I really avoided teaching or any kind of interaction during COVID because people put a lot of emphasis on but also got comfortable with remote teaching, and I think nobody enjoyed it.

在新冠疫情期间，我确实避免了教学或任何形式的互动，因为人们非常重视远程教学，但也对远程教学感到满意，我认为没有人喜欢它。

Except there's a notion that it's much easier to do because you don't have to travel.

但有一种观点认为，这样做更容易，因为你不必旅行。

You can do it in your pajamas kind of thing.

你可以穿着睡衣做类似的事情。

But when you actually get to do it, you don't get the same kind of joy that you do when you're teaching.

但当你真正开始做的时候，你不会得到和教学时一样的快乐。

As a student you don't get the same kind of joy of learning.

作为一名学生，你无法获得同样的学习乐趣。

It's not as effective and all that kind of stuff.

它不是那么有效以及诸如此类的东西。

So to be in person together with people, to see their eyes, to get their excitement, to get the questions and all the interactions, that was awesome.

因此，能够亲自与人们在一起，看到他们的眼睛，感受到他们的兴奋，得到问题和所有的互动，这真是太棒了。

And I'm still a sucker and a believer in the ideal of MIT, of the University.

我仍然是麻省理工大学理想的傻瓜和信徒。

I think it's an incredible place.

我认为这是一个令人难以置信的地方。

There's something in the air still.

空气中仍然有一些东西。

But it really hit — the pandemic hit universities hard because — and I can say this.

但它确实受到了打击——这场大流行对大学造成了沉重打击，因为——我可以这么说。

This is not you saying it.

这不是你说的。

This is me saying it.

这是我说的。

That administrations — as in all cases when people criticize institutions, the pandemic has given more power to the administration and taken away power from the faculty and the students, and that's from everybody involved, including the administration.

政府——就像人们批评机构的所有情况一样，疫情赋予了政府更多的权力，并剥夺了教职员工和学生的权力，而这是包括政府在内的所有相关人员的权力。

That's a concern because a university is about the teachers and the students.

这是一个令人担忧的问题，因为大学是关于教师和学生的。

That should be primary.

这应该是首要的。

And whenever you have a pandemic there's an opportunity to increase the amount of rules.

每当发生大流行时，就有机会增加规则的数量。

One of the things that really bothered me, and I'll scream from the top of the MIT dome, about this is they've instituted a new temp ticket system.

真正困扰我的一件事是，他们建立了一个新的临时门票系统，我会在麻省理工学院的圆顶上尖叫。

Which is if you're a visitor to the campus at MIT, you have to register.

也就是说，如果您是麻省理工学院校园的访客，则必须注册。

You have to, first of all, show that you're vaccinated, but more importantly, there's a process to visiting.

首先，你必须证明你已经接种了疫苗，但更重要的是，有一个访问的过程。

You need to get permission to visit.

您需要获得访问许可。

One of the reasons I loved MIT, unlike some other institutions, MIT just leaves the door open to anyone.

我喜欢麻省理工学院的原因之一是，与其他一些机构不同，麻省理工学院向任何人敞开大门。

In classrooms you can roll in the ridiculous characters.

在教室里，你可以看到一些可笑的角色。

The students that are usually doing business stuff or economics can roll into a physics class and just — you're kind of not allowed, but it's a gray area so you let that happen, and that creates a flourishing of a community that was beautiful.

通常从事商业或经济学研究的学生可以进入物理课，只是——你有点不被允许，但这是一个灰色地带，所以你让这种情况发生，这就创造了一个繁荣的美丽社区。

And I think adding extra rules puts a squeeze on and limits some of the flourishing, and I hope some of that dissipates over time as we kind of let go of the risk aversion that was created by the pandemic.

我认为增加额外的规则会挤压并限制一些繁荣，我希望随着时间的推移，随着我们放弃大流行造成的风险厌恶情绪，其中一些会消失。

As we kind of enter the normal return back, some of that flourishing can happen.

当我们进入正常回归时，一些繁荣可能会发生。

But when you're actually in there with the students, it was magic.

但当你真正和学生们在一起时，那就很神奇了。

I love it.

我喜欢它。

I love it.

我喜欢它。

Not physically afraid, but they're intellectually afraid because the students are so smart.

不是身体上的害怕，而是智力上的害怕，因为学生们太聪明了。

And teaching there can be downright frightening, I've heard.

我听说在那里教书可能会非常可怕。

But that's great.

但这太好了。

Keeps everybody on their toes.

让每个人都保持警惕。

And you know, I've been corrected in lecture before at Stanford and elsewhere.

你知道，我之前在斯坦福大学和其他地方的讲座中已经被纠正过。

When my lab was at UC San Diego, where someone will say, hey, wait, last lecture you said this and now you said that — or on the podcast.

当我的实验室在加州大学圣地亚哥分校时，有人会说，嘿，等等，上一堂课你说了这个，现在你又说了那个——或者在播客上。

You know?

你知道？

And I think it's that moment where you sometimes feel that urge to defend and you go, oh, you're right, and I think it depends on how one was trained.

我认为正是在那个时刻，你有时会感到想要防守的冲动，然后你就会说，哦，你是对的，我认为这取决于一个人的训练方式。

My graduate advisor was wonderful at saying, I don't know, all the time.

我的研究生导师一直很擅长说“我不知道”。

And she went to Harvard, Radcliffe, UCSF, and Caltech.

她去了哈佛大学、拉德克利夫大学、加州大学旧金山分校和加州理工学院。

Brilliant woman.

才华横溢的女人。

And had no problem saying, I don't know.

并且毫不犹豫地说，我不知道。

It's been a long time since I've been invited back there.

我已经很久没有被邀请回到那里了。

Oddly enough when I started doing more podcasting — and I still run a lab, but I shrunk my lab considerably as I've done more podcasting — I've received fewer academic lecture invites, which makes sense.

奇怪的是，当我开始做更多的播客时——我仍然经营一个实验室，但随着我做更多的播客，我的实验室规模大幅缩小——我收到的学术讲座邀请减少了，这是有道理的。

But now they're sort of coming back.

但现在他们又回来了。

And so when people invite now, I always say, do you want me to talk about the ventral thalamus and its role in anxiety and aggression or do you want me to talk about the podcast?

因此，当人们现在邀请时，我总是说，你想让我谈谈腹侧丘脑及其在焦虑和攻击性中的作用，还是想让我谈谈播客？

And my big fear is I'm going to go back to give a lecture about the retina or something and I'll start off with an Athletic Greens read or something like that just reflexively.

我最担心的是我要回去做一个关于视网膜之类的讲座，我会条件反射地从一本运动绿读物或类似的东西开始。

Just kidding.

只是在开玩笑。

That wouldn't happen.

那不会发生。

But listen, I think it's great to continue to keep a foot in both places.

但是听着，我认为继续在这两个地方立足是件好事。

I was so happy to hear that you're teaching at MIT because podcasting is one thing, teaching is another, and there's overlap there in the Venn diagram.

我很高兴听到你在麻省理工学院教书，因为播客是一回事，教学是另一回事，而且维恩图中存在重叠。

But listen, the students that get to sit in on one of your lectures — and you may see me sitting there in the audience soon when I creep into your class.

但是听着，那些旁听你讲座的学生们——当我悄悄走进你的课堂时，你可能很快就会看到我坐在观众席上。

At least for me, and especially on the engineering side because I want to build stuff, and I think that keeps your ego in check, keeps you humble because I think if you talk too much on a microphone you start getting — you might lose track of the grounding that comes from engineering and from science and the scientific process and the criticisms that you get, all that kind of stuff.

至少对我来说，特别是在工程方面，因为我想要建造一些东西，我认为这可以让你的自我受到控制，让你保持谦虚，因为我认为如果你在麦克风上说太多，你就会开始得到——你可能会失去来自工程、科学和科学过程的基础，以及你收到的批评，所有这些东西。

And I said, oh, I absolutely want to continue to be involved in research and do research.

我说，哦，我绝对想继续参与研究，做研究。

And when you start talking about these papers, and we're looking over my — this was my yearly review, and looking back I'm like, goodness, these papers have been in play for a very long time.

当你开始谈论这些论文时，我们正在审查我的——这是我的年度回顾，回想起来，我想，天哪，这些论文已经发挥了很长一段时间了。

So it's a long road but you learn more and more, and the more time you spend myopically looking at a bunch of data, the more you learn and the more you think.

所以这是一条漫长的路，但你学到的东西越来越多，你花越多的时间短视地查看一堆数据，你学到的东西就越多，你思考的也就越多。

I totally agree.

我完全同意。

Talking to these devices for podcasts is wonderful because it's fun.

与这些设备进行播客交谈非常棒，因为它很有趣。

It relieves a certain itch that we both have and hopefully it lands some important information out there for people, but doing research is the — I guess if you know, you know.

它缓解了我们都有的某种渴望，并希望它能为人们提供一些重要的信息，但做研究是——我想如果你知道的话，你就知道。

There's the unpeeling of the onion, knowing that there could be something there.

剥开洋葱皮，知道里面可能有东西。

There's just nothing like it.

没有什么比这更好的了。

They really are invested in this, and they're also often experts, right?

他们确实对此投入了精力，而且他们通常也是专家，对吧？

It makes sense for an editor to have a bit of power in this case.

在这种情况下，编辑拥有一点权力是有道理的。

Usually if an idea is truly novel you could see it, And so it makes sense for an editor to have more power in that regard.

通常，如果一个想法确实新颖，你就可以看到它，因此编辑在这方面拥有更大的权力是有道理的。

Of course for me, I think peer review should be done the way tweets are done, which is crowdsourced, or Amazon reviews.

当然，对我来说，我认为同行评审应该像推文那样进行，即众包或亚马逊评论。

There could be, of course, political bickering that enters the picture, especially on very controversial topics, but I think I trust the intelligence of human beings to figure that out.

当然，可能会出现政治争吵，尤其是在非常有争议的话题上，但我认为我相信人类的智慧能够解决这个问题。

And I think most of us are trying to figure this whole process out.

我认为我们大多数人都在试图弄清楚整个过程。

I just wish it was happening much faster because on the important topics, the review cycle could be faster.

我只是希望事情发生得更快，因为在重要的主题上，审查周期可以更快。

And we learned that through COVID that Twitter was actually pretty effective at doing science communication.

通过新冠疫情，我们了解到 Twitter 在科学传播方面实际上非常有效。

It was really interesting.

这真的很有趣。

Some of the best scientists took to Twitter to communicate their own work and other people's work, and always putting into the caveats that it's not peer reviewed and so on, but it's all out there and the data just moves so fast.

一些最优秀的科学家在 Twitter 上交流他们自己的工作和其他人的工作，并总是提出警告，即它没有经过同行评审等等，但一切都在那里，数据移动得如此之快。

And if you want stuff to move fast, Twitter is the best medium of communication for that.

如果你想让事情快速进展，Twitter 是最好的沟通媒介。

It's cool to see.

很高兴看到。

InsideTracker solves that problem and makes it very easy for you to understand what sorts of nutritional, behavioral, maybe even supplementation-based interventions you might want to take on in order to adjust the numbers of those metabolic factors, hormones, lipids, and other things that impact your immediate and long-term health to bring those numbers into the ranges that are appropriate and, indeed, optimal for you.

InsideTracker 解决了这个问题，让您很容易了解您可能想要采取什么样的营养、行为、甚至补充剂干预措施，以调整那些影响您当前和长期健康的代谢因素、激素、脂质和其他因素的数量，使这些数字达到适合您的、实际上最适合您的范围。

If you'd like to try InsideTracker you can visit insidetracker.com/huberman to get $200 off an ultimate plan or 34% off the entire site as a special Black Friday deal now through the end of November.

如果您想尝试 InsideTracker，您可以访问 insidetracker.com/huberman，享受终极计划 200 美元折扣或整个网站 34% 的折扣，从现在到 11 月底，这是黑色星期五的特别优惠。

Again, that's insidetracker.com/huberman, and use the code Huberman at checkout.

同样，这是 insidetracker.com/huberman，并在结帐时使用代码 Huberman。

I'm now on Twitter more regularly, and initially it was just Instagram.

我现在更频繁地使用 Twitter，最初只使用 Instagram。

And I remember you and I used to have these over-dinner or drink conversations where I'd say, I don't understand Twitter.

我记得你和我曾经在晚餐或喝酒时聊天，我会说，我不懂推特。

And you'd say, I don't understand Instagram.

你可能会说，我不懂 Instagram。

And of course, we understand how it worked and how to work each respective platform, but I think we were both trying to figure out what is driving the psychology of these different venues because they are quite distinct psychologies for whatever reason.

当然，我们了解它是如何运作的以及如何运作每个各自的平台，但我认为我们都在试图弄清楚是什么推动了这些不同场所的心理，因为无论出于何种原因，它们都是截然不同的心理。

I think I'm finally starting to understand Twitter and enjoy it a little bit.

我想我终于开始了解 Twitter 并有点享受它了。

Initially I wasn't prepared for the level of reflexive scrutiny.

最初我并没有准备好接受如此程度的反射性审查。

It sounds a little bit oxymoronic, but that people pick up on one small thing and then drive it down that trajectory.

这听起来有点矛盾，但人们会发现一件小事，然后沿着这条轨迹发展。

It didn't seem to be happening quite as much on Instagram, but I love your tweets.

这种情况在 Instagram 上似乎没有发生那么多，但我喜欢你的推文。

I do have a question about your Twitter account and how you — do you have sort of internal filters of what you'll put up and won't put up?

我确实有一个关于你的 Twitter 帐户的问题，以及你如何 - 你是否有某种内部过滤器来过滤你会发布和不会发布的内容？

Because sometimes you'll put up things that are about life and reflections.

因为有时候你会发布一些关于生活和反思的东西。

Other times you'll put up things like what you're excited about in AI, or of course, point to various podcasts including your own, but others as well.

其他时候，你会发布诸如你对人工智能感兴趣的内容，或者当然，指出各种播客，包括你自己的，但也包括其他人。

How do you approach social media?

您如何对待社交媒体？

Not in how do you regulate your behavior on there in terms of how much time, et cetera.

不是你如何调节你在那里的行为，比如时间多少等等。

I know you've talked about that before.

我知道你之前已经谈过这个问题了。

But you know, what's your mindset around social media when you go on there to either post or forage or respond to information?

但你知道，当你在社交媒体上发帖、搜寻或回复信息时，你对社交媒体的心态是什么？

I think the thing I try to do is think positively towards them, like do not escalate.

我认为我尝试做的就是积极地看待他们，比如不要升级。

So whenever somebody's criticizing me and so on, I just smile.

所以每当有人批评我等等时，我只是微笑。

If there's a lesson to be learned, I learn it and then I just send good vibes their way.

如果有什么值得吸取的教训，我就会学习，然后我就会向他们传递良好的氛围。

Don't respond, and just hopefully, through karma and through the ripple effect of positivity, have an impact on them and the rest of the Twitter.

不要回应，只是希望通过业力和积极的连锁反应，对他们和 Twitter 的其他人产生影响。

And what you find is that builds — your actions create the community.

你会发现，构建——你的行动创造了社区。

So how I behave gets me surrounded by certain people.

所以我的行为方式让我被某些人包围。

But lately, especially Ukraine is one topic like this, I also thought about talking to — somebody who reached out to me is Andrew Tate, who's extremely controversial.

但最近，尤其是乌克兰这样的话题，我也考虑过与我交谈——安德鲁·泰特（Andrew Tate）是一位非常有争议的人。

From the perspective of a lot of people is a misogynist.

从很多人的角度来看是一个厌恶女性的人。

So a lot of the criticism that he gets is kind of — it's like a pyramid scheme where you convince people to join so that they can make more money and then they convince others to join, and that kind of stuff.

所以他收到的很多批评都是——这就像一个传销计划，你说服人们加入，这样他们就可以赚更多的钱，然后他们说服其他人加入，诸如此类的事情。

But that's not why I'm interested in talking to him.

但这并不是我有兴趣与他交谈的原因。

I'm interested because one of the guests — maybe I should mention who, but one of the female guests I had, really a big scientist, said that her two kids that are 13 and 12 really look up to Andrew to entertain —

我很感兴趣，因为其中一位客人——也许我应该提一下是谁，但我的一位女客人，一位真正的大科学家，说她的两个孩子分别是 13 岁和 12 岁，真的很尊敬安德鲁来招待——

So the conversation I want to have with him is about masculinity.

所以我想和他讨论的是男性气质。

What does masculinity mean in the 21st century?

21世纪的男性气质意味着什么？

And so when I think about that kind of stuff, and because we're talking about Twitter, it's like going into a war zone.

所以当我想到这类事情时，因为我们正在谈论 Twitter，这就像是进入了战区。

I'm a happy-go-lucky person, but —

我是一个无忧无虑的人，但是——

The hard thing is to empathize with the person, to understand them, to steelman their case, but also to make your own case.

困难的是要同情这个人，理解他们，向他们讲述他们的情况，但也要提出你自己的情况。

So in that case about what it means to be a man, to me a strong man is somebody who is respectful to women.

因此，关于作为一个男人意味着什么，对我来说，一个坚强的男人就是尊重女性的人。

Not out of weakness, not out of social justice warrior signaling, and all that kind of stuff, but out of that's what a strong man does.

不是出于软弱，不是出于社会正义战士的信号，以及诸如此类的事情，而是出于一个坚强的人所做的事情。

They don't need to be disrespectful to prove their position in life.

他们不需要通过不尊重来证明自己的生活地位。

He is often — now, a lot of people say it's a character.

他经常——现在，很多人说这是一个角色。

He's being misogynistic.

他很厌恶女性。

He's being a misogynist as a kind of — for entertainment purposes.

他是一个厌恶女性的人——出于娱乐目的。

And part of that, I believe, in, at least from some of these individuals who actually know who they are, I understand as an attempt to maintain their privacy, which is important to many people.

我相信，至少对于其中一些真正知道自己是谁的人来说，我认为这是试图维护自己的隐私，这对许多人来说很重要。

And in some cases so that they can be more inflammatory and then just pop up elsewhere as something else without anyone knowing that it's the same person.

在某些情况下，这样它们可能会更具煽动性，然后以其他东西的形式出现在其他地方，而没有人知道这是同一个人。

It's like you think just because something is kind of funny or is funny or is legitimately funny, it also doesn't have a deep effect on society.

就像你认为仅仅因为某件事有点有趣或很有趣或合理地有趣，它也不会对社会产生深远的影响。

So that's such a difficult gray area because some of the best comedy is dark and mean, but it reveals some important truth that we need to consider.

所以这是一个非常困难的灰色地带，因为一些最好的喜剧是黑暗和卑鄙的，但它揭示了一些我们需要考虑的重要事实。

But sometimes comedy is just covering up for destructive ideology, and you have to know the line between those two.

但有时喜剧只是掩盖破坏性的意识形态，你必须知道两者之间的界限。

Hitler was seen as a joke in the late '20s and the '30s in Nazi Germany until the joke became very serious.

在二十世纪二十年代末和三十年代的纳粹德国，希特勒被视为一个笑话，直到这个笑话变得非常严重。

You have to be careful to know the difference between the joke and the reality and do all that.

你必须小心地知道笑话和现实之间的区别并做到这一点。

I mean, in a conversation — I'm just such a big believer in conversation to be able to reveal something through conversation, but I don't know.

我的意思是，在谈话中——我非常相信谈话能够通过谈话揭示一些东西，但我不知道。

One of the big — you and I challenge ourselves all the time.

其中之一——你和我一直在挑战自己。

I don't know if I have what it takes to have a good, empathetic, but adversarial conversation.

我不知道我是否有能力进行一次良好的、富有同理心但充满敌意的对话。

So I think the way I could have a good conversation with him is to really understand his worldview, be able to steelman his worldview and those that support him.

所以我认为我能够与他进行良好对话的方式是真正了解他的世界观，能够向他的世界观以及那些支持他的人传达钢铁侠的信息。

Which is, I'm sorry to say for people who seem to hate Donald Trump, is a very large percentage of the country.

我很遗憾地对那些似乎讨厌唐纳德·特朗普的人说，这在这个国家占了很大比例。

And so you have to really empathize with those people.

所以你必须真正同情那些人。

You have to empathize with Donald Trump, the human being, and from that perspective, ask him hard questions.

你必须同情唐纳德·特朗普这个人，并从这个角度向他提出尖锐的问题。

You see the same kind of stuff with Fauci over the pandemic.

在流感大流行中，你会在福奇身上看到同样的事情。

At first we were all huddled in uncertainty.

起初我们都陷入了不确定之中。

There is a togetherness with the pandemic.

与大流行有一种团结。

Of course, there is more difficult because you're isolated.

当然，还有更困难的事情，因为你是孤立的。

But then you start to figure out — probably the politicians and the media try to figure out, how can I take a side here and how can I now start reporting on this side or that side and say how the other side is wrong?

但然后你开始弄清楚——可能政客和媒体试图弄清楚，我怎样才能在这里选边站，我现在怎样才能开始报道这一方​​或那方，并说另一方是错的？

And so I think Anthony Fauci is a part of just being used as a scapegoat for certain things as part of that kind of narrative of division.

因此，我认为安东尼·福奇只是被用作某些事情的替罪羊，作为这种分裂叙事的一部分。

But I think — so Trump is a singular figure that, to me, represents something important in American history.

但我认为，特朗普是一个独特的人物，对我来说，他代表了美国历史上的重要人物。

I'm not sure what that is, but I think you have to think — you put on your historian hat, go forward in time, and think back.

我不确定那是什么，但我认为你必须思考——你戴上历史学家的帽子，向前迈进，然后回想一下。

How will he be remembered 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now?

20年、30年、40年、50年后人们将如何记住他？

Who is the opposite of that?

与此相反的是谁？

You have to — I would really have to think about that because Trump was so singular.

你必须——我真的必须考虑这一点，因为特朗普是如此独特。

I think AOC is an interesting one, but she's so young it's unclear to know how — if she represents a legitimately large-scale movement or not.

我认为 AOC 是一个有趣的组织，但她太年轻了，我们不清楚她是否代表了一场合法的大规模运动。

Bernie Sanders is an interesting option, but I wish he would be 30, 40 years younger.

伯尼·桑德斯是一个有趣的选择，但我希望他能年轻 30 岁、40 岁。

The young Bernie would be a good —

年轻的伯尼会是一个很好的——

And of course, people used to be able to name different brain structures after themselves.

当然，人们过去能够以自己的名字命名不同的大脑结构。

So that would be the nucleus of Lex and the Huberman vesiculus or whatever.

所以这将是莱克斯和休伯曼囊泡或其他什么的核心。

Less of that nowadays.

如今这样的事已经少了。

And by the way, those structures don't actually exist just yet.

顺便说一句，这些结构实际上还不存在。

We haven't defined those yet.

我们还没有定义这些。

I was making those names up.

这些名字是我编的。

But what's interesting is it seems like in the last five years, there's been a lot of trend — there's been a trend, excuse me, toward a requirement for lumping.

但有趣的是，在过去的五年里，似乎出现了很多趋势——对不起，有一种趋势是要求集中。

You can't say — it seems that it's not allowed, if you will, to say, hey, yeah, you know — and here I'm not stating my — I will never reveal my preferences about pandemic-related things for hopefully obvious reasons.

你不能说——如果你愿意的话，似乎不允许说，嘿，是的，你知道——在这里我不是说我的——我永远不会出于显而易见的原因透露我对流行病相关事物的偏好。

Some people will say vaccines, yes, but masks, no. Or vaccines and masks, yes, but let people work.

有人会说疫苗可以，但口罩不行。或者疫苗和口罩，是的，但要让人们工作。

And other people will say, no, everyone stay home.

其他人会说，不，每个人都呆在家里。

And then other people will say, no, no vaccines, no masks.

然后其他人会说，不，没有疫苗，没有口罩。

Let everybody work.

让每个人都工作。

No one was saying no vaccines, no masks, and stay home, I don't think.

我认为没有人说没有疫苗、没有口罩、待在家里。

So there's this sort of lumping, right?

所以有这种聚集，对吧？

The boundaries around ideology really did start to defy science.

意识形态的界限确实开始违背科学。

I mean, it wasn't scientific.

我的意思是，这不科学。

It was one part science-ish at times and sometimes really hardcore science.

有时这是一部分科学，有时又是真正的硬核科学。

Other times it was politics, economics.

其他时候则是政治、经济。

I mean, we really saw the confluence of all these different domains of society that use very different criteria to evaluate the world.

我的意思是，我们确实看到了所有这些不同社会领域的融合，它们使用截然不同的标准来评估世界。

I mean, as a scientist, I remember when the vaccines first came out and I asked somebody, one of the early concerns I had that was actually satisfied for me was, how does this thing turn off?

我的意思是，作为一名科学家，我记得当疫苗第一次问世时，我问某人，我早期的担忧之一实际上令我满意的是，这个东西是如何关闭的？

If you start generating mRNA, how does it actually get turned off?

如果你开始生成 mRNA，它实际上是如何被关闭的？

So I asked a friend, they know a lot about RNA biology.

于是我问了一个朋友，他们对RNA生物学了解很多。

And I said, you know, how does it turn off?

我说，你知道，它是如何关闭的？

They explained it to me and I was like, OK, makes sense.

他们向我解释了这一点，我说，好吧，有道理。

I asked some other questions.

我问了一些其他问题。

But most people aren't going to think about it at that level of detail necessarily, but it did seem that there was just kind of amorphous blobs of ideology, that they grabbed on to things and then there was this need for a chasm between them.

但大多数人不一定会在这个细节层面上思考它，但似乎确实存在某种无定形的意识形态斑点，他们抓住了事物，然后他们之间就需要存在鸿沟。

It almost felt like it became illegal, in some ways, to want two of the things from that menu and one of the things from that menu.

从某种程度上来说，想要从菜单中选择两样东西，又想要从菜单中选择一种东西，几乎感觉就像是违法的。

I really felt like I was being constrained by a kind of like bento box model where I didn't get to define what was in the bento box.

我真的觉得我受到了一种类似于便当盒模型的限制，我无法定义便当盒中的内容。

I could either have bento box A or bento box Z, but nothing in between.

我可以选择便当盒 A 或便当盒 Z，但不能介于两者之间。

Sundar Pichai is somebody like that.

桑达尔·皮查伊就是这样的人。

Obviously, Elon Musk is somebody like that that is part of pivoting a company into new domains constantly, but yeah.

显然，埃隆·马斯克就是这样一个人，他是不断将公司转向新领域的一部分，但是是的。

In biotech there's a machine.

在生物技术领域有一台机器。

In the eyes of a lot of people, big pharma is like big tobacco.

在很多人眼中，大型制药公司就像大型烟草。

It's the epitome of everything that is wrong with capitalism.

这是资本主义一切问题的缩影。

It's evil, right?

这是邪恶的，对吧？

And so I showed up in the conversation where I thought with a pretty open mind and really asked what I thought were difficult questions of him.

所以我出现在谈话中，我以相当开放的心态思考，并真正问了我认为对他来说很困难的问题。

I don't think he's ever sat down to a grilling of that kind.

我想他从来没有坐下来接受过这样的拷问。

In fact, I'm pretty sure they cut the interview short because of that, and I thought literally it was hot in the room and we're sweating and I was asking tough questions.

事实上，我很确定他们因此缩短了采访时间，我认为房间里确实很热，我们都在出汗，我问了一些棘手的问题。

For somebody that half the country or a large percent of the country believes he's alleviated a lot of — he helped, through the financial resources that Pfizer has, helped alleviate a lot of suffering in the world.

对于一个半个国家或全国很大一部分人认为他减轻了很多痛苦的人来说，他通过辉瑞拥有的财政资源帮助减轻了世界上的许多痛苦。

And so I thought for somebody like that, I was asking pretty hard questions.

所以我想，对于这样的人，我问的是非常棘手的问题。

Boy, did I get to hear from the side — usually one of the sides is more intense in their anger.

天啊，我有听到侧面的声音吗——通常其中一方的愤怒更为强烈。

So there are certain political topics — like with Andrew Tate, for example, I would hear from a very — it would probably be the left, far left, that would write very angrily.

因此，有一些政治话题——比如安德鲁·泰特，我会从一个非常左派、极左派那里听到，他们会非常愤怒地写信。

And so that's a group you'll hear from.

所以你会听到这个团体的声音。

The Pfizer CEO, I didn't get almost any messages from people saying, why did you go so hard on him?

辉瑞公司的首席执行官，我几乎没有收到任何人发来的信息，说你为什么对他如此严厉？

He's an incredible human, incredible leader and CEO of a company that helped us with the vaccine that nobody thought would be possible to develop so quickly.

他是一位令人难以置信的人、令人难以置信的领导者和一家公司的首席执行官，他帮助我们开发出了没人认为能够如此迅速地开发出来的疫苗。

It's great because I have to do some soul searching, which is like, did I?

这很棒，因为我必须进行一些自我反省，就像，是吗？

You have to ask some hard questions.

你必须问一些棘手的问题。

I love criticism like that.

我喜欢这样的批评。

You get to — I had some low points.

你会发现——我有过一些低谷。

There's definitely some despair and you start to wonder, was I too weak?

肯定会有一些绝望，你开始怀疑，我是否太软弱了？

Should I have talked to him?

我应该和他谈谈吗？

What is true?

什么是真的？

And you sit there alone and just marinate in that.

你独自坐在那里，沉浸在其中。

Hopefully over time that makes you better, but I still don't know what the right answer with that one is.

希望随着时间的推移，这会让你变得更好，但我仍然不知道正确的答案是什么。

I certainly don't feel this because I know some people who are very wealthy, some people who are very poor.

我当然没有这种感觉，因为我知道有些人非常富有，有些人非常贫穷。

I can't say it scales with happiness at all.

我根本不能说它与幸福程度成正比。

People are always shocked to hear that, but that's what I've observed in very wealthy people.

人们听到这个消息总是感到震惊，但这就是我在非常富有的人身上观察到的情况。

But that people who have a lot of money are often held to a different standard because people resent that, some people resent that, and maybe there are other reasons as well.

但有很多钱的人往往会受到不同的标准，因为人们对此感到不满，有些人对此感到不满，也许还有其他原因。

I mean, among people who are very wealthy, oftentimes the wish is for status, right?

我的意思是，在非常富有的人中，往往希望的是地位，对吧？

Not money.

不是钱。

You get a bunch of billionaires in a room, and unless one of them is Elon, who also has immense status for his accomplishments, typically if you put a Nobel Prize winner in a room with a bunch of billionaires, they're all talking to that person.

你把一群亿万富翁放在一个房间里，除非其中一个是埃隆，他也因其成就而享有巨大的地位，通常如果你把一位诺贝尔奖得主和一群亿万富翁放在一个房间里，他们都会和那个人交谈。

Right?

正确的？

And there are many very interesting billionaires.

还有很多非常有趣的亿万富翁。

But status is something that is often but not always associated with money, but is a much rarer form of uniqueness out there, a positive uniqueness — if one considers status positive because there's a downside too.

但地位通常但并不总是与金钱联系在一起，而是一种更罕见的独特性，一种积极的独特性——如果一个人认为地位是积极的，因为它也有缺点。

So I wonder whether or not the Pfizer CEO caught extra heat because people assume, and I probably assume also, that his salary is quite immense.

所以我想知道辉瑞公司的首席执行官是否受到了额外的关注，因为人们认为，而且我可能也认为，他的薪水相当高。

They talk about trying to really help people because that's the best way to make money is to come up with medicine that helps a lot of people.

他们谈论尝试真正帮助人们，因为赚钱的最佳方式就是开发出可以帮助很多人的药物。

The mission is clear.

使命很明确。

They're all good people, a lot of really brilliant people, Ph.Ds.

他们都是好人，很多非常聪明的人，博士。

So you can have a system where all the people are good, including the CEO.

所以你可以拥有一个所有人都是优秀的系统，包括首席执行官。

And by good, I mean people that really are trying to do everything.

我所说的“好”是指那些真正努力做每件事的人。

They dedicate their whole life to do good.

他们毕生致力于行善。

And yet, you have to think that that system can deviate from a path that does good because you start to deceive yourself of what is good, you turn it into a game where money does come into play from a company perspective where you convince yourself the more money you make, the more good you'll be able to do.

然而，你必须认为，这个系统可能会偏离一条行善之路，因为你开始欺骗自己，相信什么是好的，你把它变成了一个游戏，从公司的角度来看，金钱确实发挥了作用，你说服自己，赚的钱越多，你就能做的好事就越多。

And then you start to focus more and more and more on making more money, and then you can really deviate and lose track of what is actually good.

然后你开始越来越专注于赚更多的钱，然后你就会真正偏离并失去真正好的东西。

I'm not saying necessarily Pfizer does that, but I think companies could do that.

我并不是说辉瑞一定会这样做，但我认为公司可以这样做。

You can apply that criticism to social media companies, to big pharma companies.

你可以将这种批评应用于社交媒体公司、大型制药公司。

One of the big lessons for me — I don't know what the answer is, but that all the people inside the company can be good, people you would want to hang out with, people you would want to work with, but as a company is doing evil.

对我来说，最大的教训之一是——我不知道答案是什么，但公司内部的所有人都可以是好人，你想和他们一起出去玩，你想和他们一起工作，但作为一家公司，他们却在做坏事。

That's a possibility.

这是有可能的。

So the distrust I don't think is towards the billionaire individual, which I do see a lot of in this case.

因此，我认为这种不信任不是针对亿万富翁的，在这种情况下我确实看到了很多这种情况。

I think it's Wall Street distrust, that the machinery of this particular organization has gone off track.

我认为这是华尔街的不信任，这个特定组织的机制已经偏离了轨道。

Nazi Germany has a history of people just too focused on the science and then the politicians used the scientists to achieve whatever end they want.

纳粹德国有一段历史，人们过于关注科学，然后政客们利用科学家来达到他们想要的任何目的。

But if you just look narrowly at the journey of a scientist, it's a beautiful one because they're ultimately in it for the curiosity, the moment of discovery versus money.

但如果你狭隘地审视一位科学家的旅程，你会发现这是一段美好的旅程，因为他们最终是为了好奇心、发现的时刻而不是金钱。

I mean, prestige probably does come into play later in life, but especially young scientists.

我的意思是，声望可能确实会在以后的生活中发挥作用，尤其是年轻的科学家。

They're after the — it's like they're pulling at the thread of curiosity to try to discover something big.

他们追求的是——就像他们在好奇心的牵引下试图发现一些大的东西。

They get excited by that kind of stuff, and it's beautiful to see.

他们对这类东西感到兴奋，而且很高兴看到。

She was productive as a side effect of just being absolutely committed and obsessed to discover the answers to the questions she was asking as best she could, and it was — you could feel it.

她之所以富有成效，是因为她完全致力于并痴迷于尽其所能地寻找她提出的问题的答案，而且你可以感觉到这一点。

You could just feel the intensity, and just incredibly low activation energy.

你只能感觉到强度，以及令人难以置信的低激活能。

If there was an experiment to do she would just go do it.

如果有实验要做，她就会去做。

You're teaching at MIT.

你在麻省理工学院教书。

You are obviously traveling the world, you're running on the podcast a lot of coverage of chess recently, which is interesting.

显然你正在环游世界，最近你在播客上做了很多关于国际象棋的报道，这很有趣。

I don't play chess but —

我不下棋，但是——

But we're getting a language-based map of at least a portion of Lex Fridman's brain here.

但我们在这里得到了莱克斯·弗里德曼大脑至少一部分的基于语言的地图。

So what else is going on these days in that brain as it relates to robotics, AI?

那么，这些天大脑中还发生了哪些与机器人、人工智能相关的事情呢？

Our last conversation was a lot about robots and the potential for robot-human interaction.

我们的最后一次谈话主要是关于机器人和机器人与人类互动的潜力。

Even what is a robot, et cetera.

甚至什么是机器人等等。

Are you still working on robots or focused on robots, and where is science showing up in your life besides the things we've already talked about?

您还在研究机器人或专注于机器人吗？除了我们已经讨论过的事情之外，科学还出现在您的生活中吗？

But short-term I see there a possibility of launching a social media company, and it's a nontrivial explanation why that leads to robots in the home.

但从短期来看，我认为有可能成立一家社交媒体公司，这也是为什么这会导致家庭机器人的一个重要解释。

But it's basically the algorithms that fuel effective social robotics, so robots that you can form a deep connection with.

但基本上是算法推动了有效的社交机器人技术，因此你可以与机器人建立深厚的联系。

And so I've been really — yeah, I've been building prototypes but struggling that I don't have maybe, if I were to be critical, the guts to launch a company.

所以我一直在——是的，我一直在构建原型，但一直在挣扎，如果我要批评的话，我可能没有勇气创办一家公司。

And they make me happy and they're all — they're wonderful and there's research, there's teaching, and so on.

他们让我很高兴，他们都很精彩，有研究，有教学，等等。

But all of that can just serve as an excuse from the thing that my heart says is the right thing to do, and that's why I don't have the guts, the guts to say no to basically everything and then to focus all out.

但所有这些都只能作为我内心认为应该做的事情的借口，这就是为什么我没有勇气，没有勇气对基本上所有的事情说不，然后全力以赴。

Because part of it is I'm unlikely to fail at anything in my life currently because I've already found a comfortable place.

因为部分原因是我目前生活中的任何事情都不太可能失败，因为我已经找到了一个舒适的地方。

With a startup it's mostly going to be — most likely going to be a failure, if not an embarrassing failure.

对于一家初创公司来说，它很可能会失败，甚至是令人尴尬的失败。

I'm sure I'm going — you have more machine learning geeks that listen to your podcast than listen to this podcast, but it doesn't mean you have to fail on 15% of your weight sets, folks.

我确信我会去——听你的播客的机器学习极客比听这个播客的还要多，但这并不意味着你必须在 15% 的重量组上失败，伙计们。

I mean, it could be 16%.

我的意思是，可能是 16%。

No, I'm just kidding.

不，我只是开玩笑。

It's not exact, but it's a pretty good rule of thumb.

这并不准确，但这是一个很好的经验法则。

It's not because his musculature is a certain way or he had CRISPR or something.

这并不是因为他的肌肉组织是某种特定的方式，或者他有 CRISPR 之类的东西。

It's because he decides that.

是因为他这样决定。

And I think that's amazing, but what it means in terms of starting a company and changing priorities is a closing the hatch on all or many of the current sources of dopamine so that you can derive dopamine from the failures within this narrow context, and there's a very reductionist view and neurocentric view of what we're talking about.

我认为这很令人惊奇，但就创办公司和改变优先事项而言，这意味着关闭所有或许多当前多巴胺来源的大门，以便您可以从这个狭窄背景下的失败中获取多巴胺，并且对我们正在谈论的内容有一种非常还原论和神经中心的观点。

But I think about this a lot.

但我对此思考了很多。

I mean, the decision to choose one relationship versus another is a decision to close down other opportunities, right?

我的意思是，选择一种关系而不是另一种关系的决定就是放弃其他机会的决定，对吗？

So I think that the decision to order one thing off the menu versus others is the decision to close down those other hatches.

因此，我认为，决定从菜单上订购一项而不是其他的，就是决定关闭其他舱门。

So I think that you absolutely can do it.

所以我认为你绝对可以做到。

It's just a question of, can you flip the algorithm?

这只是一个问题，你能翻转算法吗？

I like a coach that says, you want to win the Olympics?

我喜欢教练说，你想赢得奥运会吗？

They will not — if I say I want to win the gold medal at the Olympics in freestyle wrestling, I want a coach that doesn't blink once, and hears me and believes that I can do it, and then is viciously intense and cruel to me on that pursuit.

他们不会——如果我说我想在奥运会自由式摔跤比赛中赢得金牌，我想要一个不眨眼的教练，他会听到我的声音并相信我能做到，然后在我的追求中对我表现出恶毒的强烈和残酷。

If you want to do this, let's do this.

如果你想这样做，我们就这样做吧。

Right?

正确的？

But that's support.

但这就是支持。

That positivity, I don't — I'm never — I'm not energized, nor do I see that as love, a person saying — basically criticizing that.

那种积极性，我不——我从来不——我没有活力，我也不认为这是爱，一个人说——基本上是批评这一点。

Saying, you're too old to win the Olympic gold medal, right?

你说，你太老了，拿不了奥运金牌了，对吧？

Or all the things you can come up with.

或者你能想到的所有事情。

That's not helpful to me and I can't find a dopamine, or I haven't yet, a dopamine source from the haters.

这对我没有帮助，我找不到多巴胺，或者说我还没有，从仇恨者那里找到多巴胺来源。

Basically people that are criticizing you, trying to prove them wrong.

基本上是那些批评你的人，试图证明他们是错的。

It never got me off.

它从来没有让我失望过。

It never —

它从来没有——

Maybe you can remap it this way so that you can construct — that's a kind of obvious mechanism.

也许你可以用这种方式重新映射它，以便你可以构建——这是一种明显的机制。

Construct an amorphous blob that is a hater that wants you to fail, right?

构建一个无定形的斑点，它是一个希望你失败的仇恨者，对吧？

That's kind of the David Goggins thing.

这就是大卫戈金斯的事情。

And that blob says you're too weak, you're too dumb, you're too old, you're too fat, you're too whatever, and getting you to want to quit and so on.

那个斑点说你太弱了，你太笨了，你太老了，你太胖了，你太胖了，让你想要戒烟等等。

And then you start getting angry at that blob, and maybe that's a good motivator.

然后你开始对那个斑点生气，也许这是一个很好的动力。

I haven't personally really tried that.

我个人还没有真正尝试过。

And because there was some legitimate competition there and a little bit of friction — not too much, healthy scientific friction — yeah, I might have pushed a few extra hours or more, a little bit.

因为那里有一些合法的竞争和一点点摩擦——不是太多，健康的科学摩擦——是的，我可能会多花几个小时或更长时间，一点点。

I have to say, it felt metabolizing.

我不得不说，感觉新陈代谢了。

It felt catabolic, right?

感觉是分解代谢，对吧？

I couldn't be sustained by it.

我无法忍受它。

And I contrast that with the podcast or the work that my laboratory is doing now focused on stress and human performance, et cetera, and it's pure love.

我将其与播客或我的实验室现在关注压力和人类表现等的工作进行了对比，这是纯粹的爱。

It's pure curiosity and love.

这是纯粹的好奇心和爱。

I mean, there are hard days, but I never — there's no adversary in the picture.

我的意思是，有艰难的日子，但我从来没有——图片中没有对手。

They're the practical workings of life that —

它们是生活中的实际运作——

And again, maybe I ruined my whole dopamine thing but I don't get energized by people that become popular.

再说一遍，也许我毁了我的整个多巴胺事业，但我不会因为受欢迎的人而感到精力充沛。

In the podcasting space and YouTube, it doesn't — it's awesome.

在播客领域和 YouTube 上，事实并非如此——这太棒了。

All of it is awesome and I'm inspired by that.

所有这一切都很棒，我受到了启发。

But the problem is that's not a good motivator.

但问题是这并不是一个好的激励因素。

Inspiration is like, oh, cool, humans can do this.

灵感就像，哦，太酷了，人类可以做到这一点。

This is beautiful.

这很漂亮。

But it's not — I'm looking.

但事实并非如此——我正在寻找。

I'm looking for a forcing function.

我正在寻找一个强制函数。

That's why I gave away the salary from MIT.

这就是为什么我放弃了麻省理工学院的薪水。

I was hoping my bank account had zero.

我希望我的银行账户余额为零。

That would be a forcing function to be like, oh shit.

这将是一个强制功能，就像，哦，该死。

You know?

你知道？

And you're not allowed to have a normal job, so I wanted to launch — and then the podcast becomes a source of income.

而且你不被允许有一份正常的工作，所以我想推出——然后播客就成为了一种收入来源。

So it's like, goddammit.

所以这就像是，该死的。

And I think he was extracting this from conversations of CEOs and founders, et cetera.

我认为他是从首席执行官和创始人等的谈话中提取这一点的。

I forget the specific founders that brought this to light for him.

我忘记了为他揭示这一点的具体创始人。

But that, this idea that if you focus on a job you can make an income, and hopefully you enjoy your job or not hate it too much.

但是，这种想法是，如果你专注于一份工作，你就可以获得收入，希望你喜欢你的工作，或者不要太讨厌它。

A career represents a sort of, in my mind, a kind of series of evolutions that one can go through — junior professor, tenure et cetera.

在我看来，职业生涯代表着一个人可以经历的一系列演变——初级教授、终身教授等等。

But a calling has a whole other level of energetic pull to it because it includes career and job and it includes this concept of a life.

但使命有着完全不同的能量牵引力，因为它包括事业和工作，也包括这种生活概念。

It's very hard to draw the line between a calling in career and a calling in the other parts of your life.

很难在职业召唤和生活其他部分的召唤之间划清界限。

So the question, therefore, is, do you feel a calling to start this company or is it more of a compulsion that irritates you?

因此，问题是，你是否感受到创办这家公司的召唤，还是更多地是一种激怒你的冲动？

Is it something you wish would go away or is it something that you hope won't go away?

您希望它消失还是您希望它不会消失？

Does anyone else notice this person that just walked in the room?

还有人注意到这个刚刚走进房间的人吗？

I feel that way about robots, and I can elaborate what that means but I'm not even sure I can convert it into words.

我对机器人有这种感觉，我可以详细说明这意味着什么，但我什至不确定我是否可以将其转化为文字。

I just feel like the social integration of robots in society will create a really interesting world.

我只是觉得机器人融入社会将创造一个非常有趣的世界。

And our ability to anthropomorphize when we look at a robot and our ability to feel things when we look at a robot is something that most of us don't yet experience, but I think everybody will experience in the next few decades.

当我们看到机器人时我们拟人化的能力以及当我们看到机器人时我们感受到事物的能力是我们大多数人尚未体验到的，但我认为每个人都会在未来几十年内体验到。

And I just want to be a part of exploring that because it hasn't been really thoroughly explored.

我只是想成为探索这个问题的一部分，因为它还没有被真正彻底地探索过。

The best roboticists in the world are not currently working on that problem at all.

世界上最好的机器人专家目前根本没有致力于解决这个问题。

They try to avoid human beings completely, and nobody's really working that problem in terms of when you look at the numbers.

他们试图完全避开人类，但从数字来看，没有人真正解决这个问题。

All the big tech companies that are investing money, the closest thing to that is Alexa and basically being a servant to help tell you the weather or play music and so on.

所有正在投资的大型科技公司，最接近的就是 Alexa，它基本上是一个仆人，帮助告诉你天气或播放音乐等。

It's not trying to form a deep connection.

它并不是试图建立深厚的联系。

And so sometimes you just notice the thing.

所以有时你只是注意到了这一点。

Not only do I notice the magic.

我不仅注意到了魔法。

There's a gut feeling, which I try not to speak to because there's no track record, but I feel like I can be good at bringing that magic out of the robot.

有一种直觉，我尽量不说出来，因为没有记录，但我觉得我可以擅长将机器人的魔力发挥出来。

And there's no data that says I would be good at that, but there's a feeling.

没有数据表明我会擅长于此，但有一种感觉。

It's just a feeling.

这只是一种感觉。

Because I've done so many things — I love doing playing guitar, all that kind of stuff, jujitsu.

因为我做了很多事情——我喜欢弹吉他，诸如此类的事情，柔术。

I've never felt that feeling.

我从来没有体会过那种感觉。

When I'm doing jujitsu I don't feel the magic of the genius required to be extremely good.

当我练习柔术时，我并不觉得天才的魔力需要非常出色。

At guitar I don't feel any of that.

弹吉他时我没有任何感觉。

But I've noticed that in others, great musicians, they notice the magic about the thing they do and they ran with it.

但我注意到，在其他人身上，伟大的音乐家，他们注意到他们所做的事情的魔力，并且他们会坚持下去。

And I just always thought — I think it had a different form before I knew robots existed, before I existed.

我一直在想——我认为在我知道机器人存在之前，在我存在之前，它有一种不同的形式。

The form was more about the magic between humans.

形式更多的是关于人与人之间的魔法。

I think of it as love, but the smile that two friends have towards each other when I was really young.

我认为这就是爱情，而是我年轻时两个朋友对彼此的微笑。

And people would be excited when they first know each other and notice each other, and there's that moment that they share that feeling together.

当人们第一次认识彼此并注意到对方时，他们会感到兴奋，并且在那一刻他们一起分享这种感觉。

I was like, wow, that's really interesting.

我当时想，哇，这真的很有趣。

It is really interesting that these two separate intelligent organisms are able to connect all of a sudden on this deep emotional level.

有趣的是，这两个独立的智能生物体能够在这种深层情感层面上突然联系起来。

It's like, huh.

就好像，嗯。

It's just beautiful to see, and I notice the magic of that.

看起来很美，我注意到了它的魔力。

And then when I started programming — programming, period, but then programming AI systems, you realize, oh, that could be — that's not just between humans and humans.

然后当我开始编程时——编程，就是这样，但后来对人工智能系统进行编程，你意识到，哦，这可能是——这不仅仅是人类与人类之间的事情。

That could be humans and other entities, dogs, cats and robots.

这可能是人类和其他实体、狗、猫和机器人。

And so I — for some reason it hit me the most intensely when I saw robots.

因此，出于某种原因，当我看到机器人时，对我的打击最为强烈。

So yeah, it's a calling.

所以是的，这是一个召唤。

But it's a calling that I can just enjoy the vision of it, the vision of a future world, of an exciting future world that's full of cool stuff, or I can be part of building that.

但这是一种召唤，我可以享受它的愿景，未来世界的愿景，一个充满酷东西的令人兴奋的未来世界，或者我可以成为建设它的一部分。

And being part of building that means doing the hard work of capitalism, which is like raising funds from people, which for me, right now, is the easy part, and then hiring a lot of people.

成为建设的一部分意味着做资本主义的艰苦工作，这就像从人们那里筹集资金，这对我来说，现在是容易的部分，然后雇用很多人。

I don't know how much you know about hiring, but hiring —

我不知道你对招聘了解多少，但是招聘——

And because this is very compute heavy, the computer infrastructure, managing security, cybersecurity, because you're dealing with people's data.

因为这是计算量很大的计算机基础设施、管理安全、网络安全，因为你要处理人们的数据。

So now you have to understand not only the cybersecurity of data and the privacy, how to maintain privacy correctly with data, but also the psychology of people trusting you with their data.

所以现在你不仅要了解数据和隐私的网络安全，如何正确维护数据隐私，还要了解人们信任你的数据的心理。

And how, if you look at Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey and those folks, they seem to be hated by a large number of people.

如果你看看马克·扎克伯格和杰克·多尔西以及那些人，他们似乎被很多人讨厌。

Also, there's a lot of difficult decisions in terms of censorship and not that are made that if you make them transparent you're going to get an order of magnitude more hate.

此外，在审查制度方面有很多困难的决定，但如果你让它们透明，你会得到更多的仇恨。

So you have to make all those kinds of decisions, and I think that's one of the things I have to realize is you have to take that avalanche of, potentially, hate if you make mistakes.

所以你必须做出所有这些决定，我认为我必须意识到的一件事是，如果你犯了错误，你必须承受潜在的雪崩般的仇恨。

This was actually demonstrated also — not this particular incident, I don't think — in the movie Casino where they spotted a — I remember Robert De Niro, who you have a not so vague resemblance to, by the way, in Taxi Driver.

这实际上也在电影《赌场》中得到了证明——我不认为是这个特殊事件——他们在电影《赌场》中发现了一个——我记得罗伯特·德尼罗，顺便说一句，你和《出租车司机》中的罗伯特·德尼罗有一些不那么模糊的相似之处。

Now, could it be done purely neurally?

现在，这可以纯粹通过神经来完成吗？

Could there be something that was — and listen, it wouldn't have to even be below the skull.

是否有什么东西——听着，它甚至不必在头骨以下。

This is where whenever people hear about Neuralink or brain machine interface they always think, oh, you have to drill down below the skull and put a chip below into the skull.

每当人们听到 Neuralink 或脑机接口时，他们总是会想，哦，你必须钻到头骨下方，然后将芯片放入头骨下方。

I think there are people walking around nowadays with glucose monitoring devices, like Levels — which I've used and it was very informative for me, actually — as a kind of an experiment.

我认为现在有人带着血糖监测设备到处走动，比如 Levels——我用过它，实际上它对我来说非常有用——作为一种实验。

Gave me a lot of interesting insights about my blood sugar regulation, how it reacts to different foods, et cetera.

给了我很多关于我的血糖调节、它对不同食物的反应等的有趣见解。

Well, you can implant a tactile device below the skin with a simple incision.

那么，您可以通过一个简单的切口将触觉设备植入到皮肤下方。

Actually, one of the neurosurgeons at Neuralink I know well because he came up at some point through my laboratory and was at Stanford, and he actually has put in a radio receiver in his hand, and his wife has it too.

事实上，我很熟悉 Neuralink 的一位神经外科医生，因为他在某个时候通过我的实验室来到斯坦福大学，他手里实际上装了一个无线电接收器，他的妻子也有。

And he can open locks of his house and things like that, so he's been doing —

他可以打开他房子的锁和类似的东西，所以他一直在做——

People are getting shot, shot at, and on a laptop you can see where the bullet entry points are.

人们遭到枪击，在笔记本电脑上你可以看到子弹的入口点在哪里。

Are people dead?

人死了吗？

Are they bleeding out?

他们流血了吗？

Entry, exit points.

入口、出口点。

You can get — take it out of the battlefield scenario.

你可以得到——把它带出战场场景。

You can get breathing, body position 24 hours a day.

您可以全天24小时了解呼吸、身体姿势。

There's so much that you can do looking at cavitation.

对于空化现象，您可以做很多事情。

So these same sorts of devices on 12-hour Bluetooth could be used to send all sorts of signals.

因此，这些具有 12 小时蓝牙功能的设备可用于发送各种信号。

Maybe every time you're supposed to hold your hand — I'm not a good gambler so I only play roulette when I go to Vegas because you just, long, boring games, but you get some good mileage out of each run, usually.

也许每次你都应该握住你的手——我不是一个好的赌徒，所以我只在去维加斯时玩轮盘赌，因为你只是，漫长的，无聊的游戏，但通常你会从每次运行中获得一些不错的里程。

But maybe every time you're supposed to hold, the person gets a stomach cinching because this is stimulating the vagus a little bit and they get a little bit of an ache.

但也许每次你应该握住时，这个人就会感到胃部紧缩，因为这会稍微刺激迷走神经，他们会感到有点疼痛。

So it doesn't have to be Morse code.

所以它不一定是摩尔斯电码。

It can be yes, no, maybe.

可能是，也可能不是。

Right?

正确的？

It can be green, red, yellow type signaling.

它可以是绿色、红色、黄色类型的信号。

It doesn't have to be very sophisticated to give somebody a significant advantage.

它并不一定要非常复杂才能给某人带来显着的优势。

Anyway, I haven't thought about this in detail before this conversation but, oh, yeah, there's an immense landscape.

不管怎样，在这次谈话之前我还没有详细考虑过这个问题，但是，哦，是的，有一个巨大的景观。

It turns out that the grid on the back of the cards is often printed a little bit imperfectly, and so you can use the asymmetry of the imperfections to try to figure out certain cards.

事实证明，卡片背面的网格通常打印得有点不完美，因此您可以利用缺陷的不对称性来尝试找出某些卡片。

So if you play and you remember that a certain card is, like — I think the 8 in that deck that he was accused of — an 8 and 9 were slightly different symmetry wise.

因此，如果你玩牌时记得某张牌，比如——我认为他被指控的那副牌中的 8——8 和 9 的对称性略有不同。

So he can now ask the dealer actually to rotate it to check the symmetry.

所以他现在可以要求经销商实际旋转它以检查对称性。

So you would ask the dealer to rotate the card to see that there's — to detect the asymmetry of the back of the card, and now he knows which cards are 8s and 9s or likelier to be 8s and 9s, and he was using that information to play poker and win a lot of money.

因此，您会要求庄家旋转卡片以查看是否存在 - 检测卡片背面的不对称性，现在他知道哪些卡片是 8 和 9，或者更可能是 8 和 9，并且他正在使用该信息来玩扑克并赢得很多钱。

But it's just a slight advantage.

但这只是一个微小的优势。

And his case is — and in fact, the judge found this, that he's not actually cheating, but it's not right.

他的案子是——事实上，法官发现他实际上并没有作弊，但这是不对的。

You can't use this kind of extra information.

您不能使用此类额外信息。

So it's fascinating that you can discover these little holes in games if you pay close enough attention.

因此，如果您足够仔细的话，您可以发现游戏中的这些小漏洞，这真是令人着迷。

If you're running a social media company, you have to deal with the bots and they become — one of the really exciting things in machine learning and artificial intelligence, to me, is the very fast improvement of language models.

如果你经营一家社交媒体公司，你必须与机器人打交道，对我来说，机器学习和人工智能中真正令人兴奋的事情之一就是语言模型的快速改进。

So neural networks that generate text, that interpret text, that generate from text, images and all that kind of stuff.

因此，神经网络可以生成文本、解释文本、从文本、图像和所有此类内容生成。

But you're now going to create incredible bots that look awfully a lot like humans.

但你现在要创建令人难以置信的机器人，它们看起来非常像人类。

I don't know what they need to do but I'm not interested in those, whatever it is they're offering.

我不知道他们需要做什么，但我对这些不感兴趣，无论他们提供什么。

Speaking of nonbots, I'm going to assume that all the questions are not from bots.

说到非机器人，我假设所有问题都不是来自机器人。

There are a lot of questions here — more than 10,000 questions.

这里有很多问题——超过 10,000 个问题。

Goodness.

善良。

I'll just take a few, working from top to bottom.

我只举几个例子，从上到下进行。

What ideas have you been wrestling with lately?

你最近一直在思考哪些想法？

And I think about the company as one, but as I scroll to the next, what are some others?

我认为这家公司是一个整体，但当我滚动到下一个时，还有哪些其他公司？

Also another idea is there's a deep distrust of science in trying to understand — the growing distrust of science, trying to understand what's the role of those of us that have a foot in the scientific community, how to regain some of that trust.

还有一个想法是，在试图理解科学的过程中，人们对科学存在着深深的不信任——对科学的不信任越来越大，试图理解我们这些涉足科学界的人的作用是什么，以及如何重新获得一些信任。

Also, there's — as we talked about, how to find and how to — yeah, how to find and how to maintain a good relationship.

另外，正如我们谈到的，如何找到以及如何-是的，如何找到以及如何保持良好的关系。

I mean, that's really been — I've never felt quite as lonely as I have this year with Ukraine.

我的意思是，这真的是——我从来没有像今年在乌克兰那样感到如此孤独。

It's just like, so many times I would just lay there and just, feeling so deeply alone because I felt that my home — not my home literally because I'm an American.

就像，很多时候我只是躺在那里，感到深深的孤独，因为我觉得那是我的家——而不是字面上的我的家，因为我是美国人。

I'm a proud American.

我是一个自豪的美国人。

I'll die an American.

我将作为美国人死去。

But my home in the sense of generationally, my family's home, is now going — has been changed forever.

但我的家，从一代人的意义上来说，我家人的家，现在已经永远改变了。

There's no more being proud of being from the former Russia or Ukraine.

不再为自己来自前俄罗斯或乌克兰而感到自豪。

It's now a political message to say — to show your pride, and so it's been extremely lonely.

现在这是一条政治信息——表达你的骄傲，所以它是极其孤独的。

And within that world, with all the things I'm pursuing, how do you find a successful relationship?

在那个世界里，随着我所追求的一切，你如何找到一段成功的关系？

It has been tough.

这很艰难。

But obviously — and there's a huge number of technical ideas with the startup of, like, how the hell do you make this thing work?

但显然，随着启动，会有大量的技术想法，比如，你到底如何让这个东西发挥作用？

What inspired me at first was a general culture that doesn't take itself seriously in terms of how you present yourself to the world.

最初启发我的是一种普遍文化，这种文化并不认真对待如何向世界展示自己。

So in academia, in the tech world, at Google, everybody was wearing pajamas and very relaxed.

所以在学术界、科技界、谷歌，每个人都穿着睡衣，非常放松。

In the tech.

在技​​术方面。

I don't know how it is in the science, in the chemistry, biology, and so on.

我不知道科学、化学、生物学等领域是怎样的。

But in computer science everybody was very — I mean, very relaxed in terms of the stuff they wear so I wanted to try to really take myself seriously and take every single moment seriously and everything I do seriously, and the suit made me feel that way.

但在计算机科学领域，每个人都非常——我的意思是，在他们穿的衣服方面非常放松，所以我想尝试真正认真对待自己，认真对待每一个时刻和我认真做的每一件事，而这套衣服让我有这种感觉。

I don't know how it looks, but it made me feel that way.

我不知道它看起来如何，但它让我有这样的感觉。

And I think, in terms of people I look up to that wore a suit that made me think of that is probably Richard Feynman.

我想，就我尊敬的穿着西装让我想起的人来说，可能是理查德·费曼。

I see —

我明白了——

You see the person.

你看到那个人了。

I think not to — I forgot who said this.

我想不要——我忘了​​这句话是谁说的。

Might be, like, Coco Chanel or somebody like this.

可能是可可香奈儿或类似的人。

Is that you wear a shabby dress and everyone sees the dress.

就是你穿着一件破旧的衣服，每个人都看到这件衣服。

You wear a beautiful dress and everybody sees the woman.

你穿着漂亮的衣服，每个人都看到这个女人。

So in that sense it was — hopefully I'm quoting that correctly, but —

所以从这个意义上说——希望我引用的是正确的，但是——

So it is able to convert text to art in introducing uncertainty into that noise, into that.

因此，它能够将文本转化为艺术，将不确定性引入噪音中。

That's kind of maybe.

大概就是这样吧。

I could see that as a parallel to psychedelics, and it's able to create some incredible things.

我可以将其视为与迷幻药相似的东西，它能够创造出一些令人难以置信的东西。

From a conceptual understanding of a thing, it can create incredible art that no human, I think, could have at least easily created through a bit of introduction of randomness.

从对事物的概念性理解来看，它可以创造出令人难以置信的艺术，我认为，至少没有人可以通过引入一些随机性轻松地创造出这种艺术。

Randomness does a lot of work in the machine learning world.

随机性在机器学习领域做了很多工作。

Just enough.

就够了。

I think, for me personally, the hardest belt was the brown belt because, for people who know jujitsu, the size of tournament divisions for blue belts and purple belts is just humongous.

我认为，对我个人来说，最难的腰带是棕带，因为对于了解柔术的人来说，蓝带和紫带的锦标赛划分规模非常巨大。

Like Worlds, when I competed at Worlds it was, like, 140 people in a division, which means you have to win — I forget how many times, but seven, eight, nine times in a row to medal.

就像世界赛一样，当我参加世界赛时，一个分区有 140 人，这意味着你必须获胜——我忘记了多少次，但连续七次、八次、九次获得奖牌。

And so I just had to put in a lot of work during that time.

所以我在那段时间必须投入大量的工作。

And especially for competitors, instructors usually really make you earn a belt.

尤其是对于参赛者来说，教练通常真的会让你赢得腰带。

So to earn the purple belt was extremely difficult.

所以想要获得紫带是极其困难的。

Extremely difficult.

极其困难。

And then to earn the brown belt means I had to compete nonstop against other purple belts, which are young.

然后，要获得棕带意味着我必须不停地与其他年轻的紫带竞争。

You're talking about — the people that usually compete are, like, 23, 24, 25-year-olds that are shredded, incredible cardio.

你说的是——通常参加比赛的人都是 23、24、25 岁的人，他们的有氧运动能力极强。

They can, for some reason, are in their life where they can — no kids, nothing.

出于某种原因，他们可以在自己的生活中尽其所能——没有孩子，什么都没有。

They can dedicate everything to this pursuit so they're training two, three, four times a day.

他们可以将一切奉献给这个追求，所以他们每天训练两次、三次、四次。

Diet is on point.

饮食是重点。

You're going — and for me, because they're usually bigger and taller than me and just more aggressive, actual good athletes, yeah, I had to go through a lot of wars to earn that brown belt.

你要去——对我来说，因为他们通常比我更大更高，而且更具侵略性，是真正的优秀运动员，是的，我必须经历很多战争才能赢得那条棕带。

But then —

但随后——

And I said, in your 20s I think you should find one thing you're passionate about and work harder at that than you worked at anything else in your life.

我说，在你20多岁的时候，我认为你应该找到一件你热爱的事情，并为此付出比你一生中其他任何事情都更努力的努力。

And if it destroys you, it destroys you.

如果它摧毁了你，它就会摧毁你。

That's advice for in your 20s.

这是给20多岁的人的建议。

I don't know how universally true that advice is, but I think at least give that a chance.

我不知道这个建议是否普遍正确，但我认为至少给它一个机会。

Sacrifice, real sacrifice towards a thing you really care about, and work your ass off.

为了你真正关心的事情做出牺牲，真正的牺牲，然后拼命工作。

That said, I've met so many people, and I'm starting to think that advice is best applied or best tried in the engineer disciplines, especially programming.

也就是说，我遇到了很多人，我开始认为建议最好在工程师学科中应用或最好尝试，尤其是编程。

I think there's a bunch of disciplines in which you can achieve success with much fewer hours, and it's much more important to actually have a clarity of thinking and great ideas and have an energetic mind.

我认为在很多学科中你可以用更少的时间取得成功，更重要的是拥有清晰的思维和伟大的想法以及充满活力的头脑。

The grind in certain disciplines does not produce great work.

在某些学科上的苦苦学习并不会产生伟大的成果。

I just know that in computer science and programming it often does.

我只知道在计算机科学和编程中经常如此。

Some of the best people ever that have built systems, have programmed systems, are usually like the John Carmack kind of people that drink soda, eat pizza, and program 18 hours a day.

一些曾经构建过系统、编写过系统的最优秀的人通常就像约翰·卡马克那样，每天喝汽水、吃披萨、编程 18 个小时。

So I don't know actually.

所以我其实不知道。

You have to, I think, really go discipline specific.

我认为，你必须真正针对具体学科。

So my advice applies to my own life which has been mostly spent behind that computer, and for that you really, really have to put in the hours.

所以我的建议适用于我自己的生活，我的生活大部分时间都花在电脑后面，为此你真的必须投入时间。

And what that means is essentially it feels like a grind.

这本质上意味着感觉就像是一种磨难。

I do recommend that you should at least try it in your own.

我确实建议您至少应该自己尝试一下。

That if you interview some of the most accomplished people ever, I think if they're honest with you they're going to talk about their 20s as a journey of a lot of pain and a lot of really hard work.

如果你采访一些有史以来最有成就的人，我想如果他们对你诚实的话，他们会说他们的 20 多岁是一段充满痛苦和努力工作的旅程。

I think what really happens, unfortunately, is a lot of those successful people later in life will talk about work-life balance.

不幸的是，我认为真正发生的事情是，很多成功人士在以后的生活中都会谈论工作与生活的平衡。

They'll say, you know what I learned from that process is that it's really important to get, like, sun in the morning, to have health, to have good relationships.

他们会说，你知道我从这个过程中学到的是，早上晒太阳、保持健康、建立良好的人际关系非常重要。

Yeah, so that's definitely advice.

是的，这绝对是建议。

And I should say that I admire people that work hard.

我应该说我钦佩努力工作的人。

If you want to get on my good side, I think there are the people that give everything they got towards something.

如果你想站在我这边，我想有些人会为了某事付出他们的一切。

It doesn't actually matter what it is, but towards achieving excellence in a thing.

实际上它是什么并不重要，重要的是在某件事上实现卓越。

That's the highest thing that we can reach for as human beings I think is excellence at a thing.

我认为这是我们作为人类所能达到的最高境界，那就是在某件事上取得卓越成就。

Every time I sit down with you, I begin and finish with such an immense feeling of joy and appreciation and gratitude, and it wouldn't be a Lex Fridman podcast, or in case of Lex even being a guest on a podcast, if the word love weren't mentioned at least 10 times.

每次我和你坐下来时，我都会以一种巨大的喜悦、欣赏和感激的感觉开始和结束，如果爱这个词没有被提及至少十次，那它就不会是莱克斯·弗里德曼的播客，甚至莱克斯也不会成为播客的嘉宾。

So the feelings of gratitude for all the work you do, for taking the time here today to share with us what you're doing, your thoughts, your insights, what you're perplexed about and what drives you and your callings.

因此，我对您所做的所有工作表示感谢，感谢您今天花时间在这里与我们分享您正在做的事情、您的想法、您的见解、您的困惑以及驱动您和您的使命的因素。

I mean, both its calm beauty, but in the seriousness of what it means because I ultimately think it's the — so "Stopping by a Woods on a Snowy Evening." I think it's ultimately a human being, a man, asking the old Sisyphus, the old Camus question of, why live?

我的意思是，它既有平静的美，也有它的严肃性，因为我最终认为它就是——所以“雪夜在树林里停下来”。我认为这最终是一个人，一个男人，在问老西西弗斯、老加缪的问题：为什么活着？

I think this poem, even though it doesn't seem like it is a question of a man contending with suicide and choosing to live.

我认为这首诗虽然看起来不像是一个男人与自杀作斗争并选择活下去的问题。

“Whose woods these are, I think I know.

“我想我知道这些是谁的树林。

His house is in the village, though.

不过他的家在村子里。

He will not see me stopping here to watch his woods fill up with snow.

他不会看到我在这里停下来看着他的树林被雪填满。

My little horse must think it queer to stop without a farmhouse near between the woods and frozen lake, the darkest evening of the year.

我的小马一定觉得在一年中最黑暗的夜晚，在树林和结冰的湖水之间没有农舍的情况下停下来是很奇怪的。

He gives his harness bells a shake to ask if there's some mistake.

他摇了摇他的安全带铃，询问是否出了什么问题。

The only other sound's the sweep of easy wind and downy flake.

唯一的其他声音是微风和柔软的雪花的扫过。

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep.” The woods representing the darkness, the comfort of the woods representing death, and he's a man choosing to live.

树林美丽、幽暗、幽深，但我必须遵守诺言，在睡觉前还有很长的路要走，在睡觉前还有很长的路要走。”树林代表黑暗，树林的舒适代表死亡，而他是一个选择活下去的人。

Yeah, I think about that often, especially my darker moments is, you have promises to keep.

是的，我经常想到这一点，尤其是在我最黑暗的时刻，你必须遵守诺言。

Thank you for having me, Andrew.

谢谢你邀请我，安德鲁。

You're a beautiful human being.

你是一个美丽的人。

I love you, brother.

我爱你，兄弟。

If you have questions or suggestions about topics and guests you'd like me to include on the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.

如果您对希望我在 Huberman Lab 播客中包含的主题和嘉宾有疑问或建议，请在 YouTube 的评论部分中提出。

I do read all the comments.

我确实阅读了所有评论。

In addition, please check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning of today's episode.

另外，请查看今天节目开头提到的赞助商。

That's the best way to support this podcast.

这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。

During today's episode we did not discuss supplements, but on many previous episodes of the Huberman Lab podcast we do discuss supplements because while supplements aren't necessarily for everybody, many people derive tremendous benefit from them for things like enhancing sleep and focus and hormone augmentation and so forth.

在今天的节目中，我们没有讨论补充剂，但在 Huberman Lab 播客的许多之前的节目中，我们确实讨论了补充剂，因为虽然补充剂不一定适合所有人，但许多人从它们中获得了巨大的好处，例如增强睡眠、注意力和激素增强等。

The Huberman Lab podcast has partnered with Momentous Supplements because they are of the very highest quality and they ship internationally.

Huberman Lab 播客与 Momentous Supplements 合作，因为它们具有最高的质量，并且在全球范围内发货。

In addition to that, they have single ingredient formulations that allow you to devise the supplement regimen that's most effective and most cost effective for you.

除此之外，它们还具有单一成分配方，可让您设计出对您来说最有效且最具成本效益的补充剂方案。

If you'd like to see the supplements discussed on the Huberman Lab podcast, please go to livemomentous.com/huberman.

如果您想查看 Huberman Lab 播客上讨论的补充剂，请访问 livemomentous.com/huberman。

If you haven't already signed up for the Huberman Lab podcast zero-cost Neural Network newsletter, we invite you to do so.

如果您尚未订阅 Huberman Lab 播客零成本神经网络时事通讯，我们邀请您注册。

It's a monthly newsletter that has summaries of podcast episodes and various protocols distilled into simple form.

这是一份每月通讯，其中包含播客剧集的摘要和各种协议的简单形式。

You can sign up for the newsletter by going to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu, and look for Newsletter.

您可以通过访问 hubermanlab.com 注册新闻通讯，进入菜单并查找新闻通讯。

You supply your email, but we do not share it with anybody else.

您提供您的电子邮件，但我们不会与其他任何人分享。

And as I mentioned before, the newsletter is completely zero cost.

正如我之前提到的，时事通讯完全是零成本。

And if you're not already following us on social media, we are @hubermanlab on Instagram, @hubermanlab on Twitter, and @hubermanlab on Facebook, and at all of those sites I provide science and science-related tools for mental health, physical health, and performance, some of which overlap with information covered on the Huberman Lab podcast, but often which are distinct from information covered on the Huberman Lab podcast.

如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我们，我们在 Instagram 上是@hubermanlab，在 Twitter 上是@hubermanlab，在 Facebook 上是@hubermanlab，在所有这些网站上，我都提供有关心理健康、身体健康和表现的科学和科学相关工具，其中一些与 Huberman Lab 播客中涵盖的信息重叠，但通常与 Huberman Lab 播客中涵盖的信息不同。

So again, that's @hubermanlab on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.

再说一遍，这是 Instagram、Twitter 和 Facebook 上的@hubermanlab。

Thank you, again, for joining me for the discussion with Dr. Lex Fridman, and as always, thank you for your interest in science.

再次感谢您加入我与 Lex Fridman 博士的讨论，并一如既往地感谢您对科学的兴趣。