Dr. Laurie Santos: How to Achieve True Happiness Using Science-Based Protocols
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Dr. Laurie Santos.
今天我的客人是劳里·桑托斯博士。
Dr. Laurie Santos is a professor of cognitive science and psychology at Yale University.
Laurie Santos 博士是耶鲁大学认知科学和心理学教授。
She is a world expert in happiness and in the science of emotions generally.
她是幸福和情感科学方面的世界专家。
Today, we talk about true happiness, not in any kind of loose and aspirational way, but instead what the research really tells us about how to create lasting happiness for ourselves.
今天，我们谈论真正的幸福，不是以任何松散和渴望的方式，而是研究真正告诉我们如何为自己创造持久的幸福。
We talk about relationships and happiness.
我们谈论人际关系和幸福。
That is, relationships of all kinds, between friends, between romantic partners, between family members, and of course, with ourselves.
也就是说，各种关系，朋友之间、浪漫伴侣之间、家庭成员之间，当然还有我们自己之间。
We talk about all of that in the context of what to do, what not to do, and how to frame your whole notion of what happiness is and how to attain it in the context of daily to-dos.
我们讨论所有这些，包括什么该做、什么不该做，以及如何在日常待办事项的背景下构建幸福是什么以及如何实现幸福的整个概念。
For instance, most all of us by now have heard about the power of gratitude and gratitude practices.
例如，我们大多数人现在都听说过感恩的力量和感恩实践。
In fact, I've done an entire episode about gratitude and the science of gratitude.
事实上，我已经完成了一整集关于感恩和感恩科学的内容。
But Dr. Laurie Santos today explains that by shifting our orientation toward gratitude, towards something more aligned with what delights us, we are able to better tap into the mechanisms that enable us to feel happier in a more pervasive way.
但劳里·桑托斯博士今天解释说，通过将我们的方向转向感恩，转向更符合我们快乐的事物，我们能够更好地利用使我们以更普遍的方式感到更快乐的机制。
We also discuss topics such as hedonic adaptation.
我们还讨论享乐适应等话题。
That is, how our pursuit of things and our whole experience of pleasure sets the stage for what's going to feel like a meaningful pursuit and pleasureful in the days and weeks to follow.
也就是说，我们对事物的追求和整个快乐体验如何为接下来的几天和几周的有意义的追求和快乐奠定基础。
This is very important for everyone to hear, especially in this modern age of so-called dopamine hits, easy-to-achieve dopamine, highly processed foods, and the various things that you can find online.
这对每个人来说都非常重要，尤其是在当今这个所谓多巴胺激增、容易获得多巴胺、高度加工食品以及您可以在网上找到的各种东西的现代时代。
And speaking of online, we also discuss the role that smartphones and social media play, not just in our happiness, but in our cognition.
说到网络，我们还讨论了智能手机和社交媒体所发挥的作用，不仅在我们的幸福感方面，而且在我们的认知方面。
You'll be shocked, indeed, I was shocked to learn that just having your phone in the room where you are trying to learn something significantly diminishes your performance on things like mathematics and the learning of other topics.
事实上，你会感到震惊，我很震惊地发现，仅仅将手机放在你想要学习的房间里，就会显着降低你在数学和其他主题学习等方面的表现。
We get into all of that today, the interrelated parts, and I promise that it's all made extremely clear and actionable thanks to Dr. Laurie Santos' incredible expertise, and she is an incredible teacher.
今天我们将讨论所有这些相互关联的部分，我保证这一切都变得非常清晰且可操作，这要归功于劳里·桑托斯博士令人难以置信的专业知识，她是一位令人难以置信的老师。
In fact, the course that she has taught at Yale University, entitled Psychology and the Good Life, is the most popular course ever taught at Yale over the course of 300 years.
事实上，她在耶鲁大学教授的课程《心理学与美好生活》是耶鲁大学 300 年来最受欢迎的课程。
And that popularity will not come as a surprise as you now get to learn from Dr. Laurie Santos directly.
这种受欢迎程度并不令人意外，因为您现在可以直接向 Laurie Santos 博士学习。
This was a remarkable episode, I must say.
我必须说，这是一个非凡的插曲。
I learned so much.
我学到了很多。
And I'll just highlight one big takeaway that I've implemented in my own life and that you can frame in the back of your mind as you listen to today's episode, is the difference between being happy with one's life as opposed to in one's life, and indeed, how to achieve both.
我只想强调我在自己的生活中实现的一个重要收获，当你听今天的节目时，你可以在脑海中记住这一点，那就是对一个人的生活感到满意与对一个人的生活感到满意之间的区别，以及如何实现两者。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
Our first sponsor is Eight Sleep.
我们的第一个赞助商是八睡。
Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.
August Sleep 生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能的智能床垫套。
Now, I've spoken many times before on this podcast about the critical need for us to get adequate amounts of quality sleep each night.
现在，我之前已经在这个播客中多次谈到我们每晚获得充足的优质睡眠的迫切需要。
That's truly the foundation of all mental health, physical health, and performance.
这确实是所有心理健康、身体健康和表现的基础。
And one of the best ways to ensure that you get a great night's sleep is to control the temperature of your sleeping environment.
确保您睡个好觉的最佳方法之一就是控制睡眠环境的温度。
And that's because in order to fall and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about one to three degrees.
这是因为为了入睡并保持深度睡眠，您的体温实际上必须下降约一到三度。
And in order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature actually has to increase about one to three degrees.
为了醒来时感到神清气爽、精力充沛，您的体温实际上必须升高约一到三度。
Eight Sleep makes it incredibly easy to control the temperature of your sleeping environment by allowing you to control the temperature of your mattress cover at the beginning, middle, and end of the night.
八睡眠让您可以非常轻松地控制睡眠环境的温度，让您可以在晚上的开始、中间和结束时控制床垫套的温度。
I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for nearly four years now, and it has completely transformed and improved the quality of my sleep.
我已经睡在八睡眠床垫罩上近四年了，它彻底改变并改善了我的睡眠质量。
Eight Sleep has now launched their newest generation of the Pod Cover, the Pod 4 Ultra.
八睡眠现在推出了他们最新一代的 Pod Cover，Pod 4 Ultra。
The Pod 4 Ultra has improved cooling and heating capacity, higher fidelity sleep tracking technology, and even has snoring detection that will automatically lift your head a few degrees to improve your airflow and stop your snoring.
Pod 4 Ultra 具有改进的冷却和加热能力、更高保真度的睡眠跟踪技术，甚至还具有打鼾检测功能，可以自动将您的头抬起几度，以改善气流并停止打鼾。
If you'd like to try an Eight Sleep mattress cover, go to eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $350 off their Pod 4 Ultra.
如果您想尝试 8 Sleep 床垫套，请访问 foursleep.com/huberman，Pod 4 Ultra 最多可节省 350 美元。
Eight Sleep currently ships in the USA, Canada, UK, select countries in the EU, and Australia.
八睡眠目前在美国、加拿大、英国、欧盟部分国家和澳大利亚发货。
Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman.
再说一遍，这是八睡眠.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by ExpressVPN.
今天的节目也是ExpressVPN给我们带来的。
ExpressVPN is a virtual private network that keeps your data secure and private.
ExpressVPN 是一个虚拟专用网络，可确保您的数据安全和私密。
It does that by routing your internet activity through their servers and encrypting it so that no one can see or sell your data.
它通过他们的服务器路由您的互联网活动并对其进行加密，以便没有人可以看到或出售您的数据来做到这一点。
Now, I'm familiar with the effects of not securing my data well enough.
现在，我已经熟悉了数据保护不够好的后果。
Several years ago, I had one of my bank accounts hacked, and it was a terrible amount of work to have that reversed and for the account to be secured.
几年前，我的一个银行账户被黑了，要扭转局面并确保账户安全需要付出巨大的工作量。
When that happened, I talked to my friends in the tech community, and what they told me was that even though you think your internet connection may be secure, oftentimes it's not, especially if you're using Wi-Fi networks such as those on planes, in hotels, at coffee shops, and other public places.
当这种情况发生时，我与科技界的朋友交谈，他们告诉我，即使您认为您的互联网连接可能是安全的，但通常情况下并非如此，尤其是当您使用 Wi-Fi 网络（例如飞机上、酒店、咖啡店和其他公共场所的 Wi-Fi 网络）时。
Surprisingly, even at home, your data might not be as secure as you think.
令人惊讶的是，即使在家里，您的数据也可能不像您想象的那么安全。
To make sure that what I described before would never happen to me again, I started using ExpressVPN.
为了确保我之前描述的事情不会再发生在我身上，我开始使用 ExpressVPN。
The great thing about ExpressVPN is that I don't even notice that it's running since the connection it provides is so fast.
ExpressVPN 的伟大之处在于，我什至没有注意到它正在运行，因为它提供的连接速度非常快。
I have it on my computer and on my phone, and I keep it on whenever I'm connected to the internet.
我的电脑和手机上都有它，每当我连接到互联网时我都会保持它。
With ExpressVPN, I know everything is secure.
有了 ExpressVPN，我知道一切都是安全的。
My web browsing, all my passwords, all my data, and of course, anything that's behind an account wall, like a bank account.
我的网页浏览、所有密码、所有数据，当然还有帐户墙后面的任何内容，例如银行帐户。
It can't be tracked, and no one can access or steal your data, which is terrific.
它无法被追踪，没有人可以访问或窃取你的数据，这真是太棒了。
If you'd like to start protecting your internet activity using ExpressVPN, you can go to expressvpn.com/huberman, and you can get an extra three months free.
如果您想开始使用 ExpressVPN 保护您的互联网活动，您可以访问expressvpn.com/huberman，您可以获得额外三个月的免费试用期。
Again, that's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N.com/huberman to get an extra three months free.
再次强调，E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N.com/huberman 可以获得额外三个月的免费服务。
And now for my discussion with Dr. Laurie Santos.
现在我与 Laurie Santos 博士进行讨论。
Dr. Laurie Santos, welcome.
劳里·桑托斯博士，欢迎光临。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Thanks so much for having me on the show.
非常感谢您邀请我参加演出。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to talk about this thing that everyone seems to want, but most everyone has trouble keeping themselves in a state of happiness, which raises the question of whether or not we should even be seeking to constantly be in a state of happiness.
我想谈谈这个似乎每个人都想要的事情，但大多数人都很难让自己保持在幸福的状态，这就提出了一个问题：我们是否应该寻求持续处于幸福的状态。
But just to sit back from that question for a moment, how should we think about the relationship between emotions and this thing that we call cognition?
但先暂时抛开这个问题，我们应该如何思考情绪和我们称之为认知的东西之间的关系？
Because I think a lot of where we're going today is to distinguish between feelings, thoughts, and behaviors, and as neuroscientists, psychologists, et cetera, we have to understand the difference between emotions and cognition, and maybe where they overlap.
因为我认为我们今天要做的很多事情是区分感受、想法和行为，作为神经科学家、心理学家等，我们必须了解情绪和认知之间的差异，以及它们可能重叠的地方。
So if you could educate us a bit on that, I think that will set the stage nicely for understanding happiness.
因此，如果你能在这方面教育我们一些，我认为这将为理解幸福奠定良好的基础。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I'm glad you started there, actually, because the very definition of happiness, I think, as social scientists tend to think about it, includes both of these parts.
嗯，我很高兴你从那里开始，事实上，因为我认为，正如社会科学家倾向于思考的那样，幸福的定义包括这两个部分。
Right?
正确的？
So I think social scientists tend to think about happiness as being happy in your life and being happy with your life.
所以我认为社会科学家倾向于将幸福视为生活中的幸福和对生活的幸福。
So being happy in your life is sort of the emotion side.
因此，生活中的快乐是情感方面的一部分。
Right?
正确的？
Have a decent number of positive emotions, maybe slightly less negative emotions.
拥有一定数量的积极情绪，也许稍微少一点消极情绪。
You existing in your life feels good.
你存在于你的生活中感觉很好。
That's kind of an emotional part.
这是一种情感部分。
But then there's also how you think your life is going.
但还有你认为你的生活是如何进行的。
Do you have purpose?
你有目的吗？
Are you happy with how things are going?
您对事情的进展感到满意吗？
It's how you think about your life, which is sort of a cognitive thing.
这就是你如何看待自己的生活，这是一种认知的事情。
And so even the earliest social scientists who started thinking about happiness, at the time, they called it subjective well-being because I think psychologists were like, "Ooh, happiness sounds too woo-ey.
因此，即使是最早开始思考幸福的社会科学家，当时也将其称为主观幸福，因为我认为心理学家会说，“哦，幸福听起来太不可思议了。
We'll call it something else." But it means exactly the same thing.
我们会叫它别的东西。”但这意味着完全相同的事情。
It means subjective well-being.
它意味着主观幸福感。
When they started thinking about subjective well-being, they divided it into this sort of affective, emotional part, which is how you feel in your life, but also this cognitive part, how you think your life is going.
当他们开始思考主观幸福感时，他们将其分为情感部分，即你对生活的感受，以及认知部分，即你对生活的看法。
So that basic dichotomy has been there since the very beginning of folks studying happiness scientifically.
因此，从人们科学地研究幸福之初起，这种基本的二分法就一直存在。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm already struck by this distinction between how things are going in your life versus with your life.
我已经对你生活中的事情和你生活中的事情之间的区别感到震惊。
One requires a kind of first-person experiencing of life in your life.
一个人需要一种第一人称的生活体验。
Do you wake up feeling good?
你醒来感觉良好吗？
Are you feeling good with your inside of your friendships and other relationships, family, romantic relationships, school, work?
您对自己的友谊和其他关系、家庭、恋爱关系、学校、工作感觉良好吗？
The other involves a bit of a third personing of self.
另一个涉及到一点第三人称的自我。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of looking at one's CV, either actual CV or reflected CV through the lens of other people and kind of getting a sense like, am I doing well?
在查看一个人的简历时，无论是实际的简历还是通过其他人的镜头反映的简历，都会有这样的感觉：我做得好吗？
Am I not doing well?
难道是我做得不好吗？
I think this is a really important distinction because it seems like ultimately, the goal, if I may, is to be happy in your life regardless of the third personing, provided that you're not doing damage to somebody else's happiness and life.
我认为这是一个非常重要的区别，因为如果可以的话，最终的目标似乎是无论第三人称如何，都能在生活中幸福，只要你不损害别人的幸福和生活。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I think ideally, it'd be nice to do both.
嗯，我认为理想情况下，两者都做会很好。
Right?
正确的？
And I think there are moments when these things dissociate.
我认为有些时候这些东西是分离的。
Right?
正确的？
So you interact with lots of interesting rich people out here in California.
因此，您可以与加利福尼亚州许多有趣的富人互动。
I think a lot of them have, kind of in their life feels pretty good, right?
我想他们中的很多人在生活中都感觉很好，对吧？
They have lots of hedonic pleasures.
他们有很多享乐。
They're drinking nice wine, hanging out at the beach.
他们在海滩上闲逛，喝着美酒。
But-
但是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You'd be amazed at how much suffering they report.
你会对他们报告的痛苦程度感到惊讶。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Oh, that's interesting.
哦，这很有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
How much suffering they report.
他们报告了多少痛苦。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
So this is the question is, is this sort of cognitive part the third-person part, or is it the reporting part?
那么问题来了，这种认知部分是第三人称部分，还是报道部分？
And I think when the psychologists are thinking about it, they really think about it as the reporting part.
我认为当心理学家思考这个问题时，他们确实将其视为报告部分。
Right?
正确的？
And this gets tricky, because I see folks having their nice glass of wine on the beach, and I'm thinking like, "That's coming with lots of positive emotion." I bet if I tested them and could have a direct look at their sensory experience, it'd probably be pretty positive.
这变得很棘手，因为我看到人们在海滩上喝着美酒，我就想，“这带来了很多积极的情绪。”我敢打赌，如果我测试它们并可以直接观察它们的感官体验，结果可能会非常积极。
It's only when they reflect on their life and they're asking, "Well, how's it going?" That they say, "Oh, I don't know.
只有当他们反思自己的生活时，他们才会问：“怎么样？”他们说：“哦，我不知道。
My stocks went down," or like-
我的股票下跌了，”或者像-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When I hear about lack of happiness, let me think of some of the kind of bullet point ones that seem to come up repetitively.
当我听到缺乏幸福感时，让我想想一些似乎重复出现的要点。
They are indeed not related to lack of resources.
它们确实与缺乏资源无关。
I don't hear that.
我没听到。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What I've heard, and this is also true for where I spend part of my time and where I grew up, which is in Silicon Valley, which is also not everyone, but there are people there who've accrued tremendous amount of wealth.
我所听到的，对于我度过部分时间和成长的地方来说也是如此，那就是硅谷，也不是每个人，但那里有人积累了巨额财富。
The mean has shifted very high, and hence the cost of living.
均值已经变得非常高，因此生活成本也变得非常高。
But it's often concerns about their kids.
但这通常是对他们的孩子的担忧。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or their mother is ill.
或者他们的母亲生病了。
Their child is struggling in a particular way.
他们的孩子正在以一种特殊的方式挣扎。
Very often that's what it is.
很多时候就是这样。
They're concerned about the lack of wellbeing in their kids related to mental health or physical health or other relatives' mental health, physical health.
他们担心孩子在心理健康或身体健康或其他亲戚的心理健康、身体健康方面缺乏幸福感。
Or they're upset about something politically.
或者他们对政治上的某些事情感到不安。
But we won't go there.
但我们不会去那里。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
We won't go there.
我们不会去那里。
Yeah.
是的。
No, I think this is true.
不，我认为这是真的。
So much of our happiness is made up of the happiness of other people.
我们的幸福很大程度上是由他人的幸福组成的。
Both how they're doing and how we think they're doing cognitively, but literally just emotionally.
他们的表现以及我们认为他们在认知上的表现如何，但实际上只是在情感上。
Right?
正确的？
If you've ever been around a family member or a spouse who was incredibly pissed off, really sad, it's incredibly hard not to catch those emotions yourself.
如果你身边有一位非常生气、非常悲伤的家庭成员或配偶，你自己很难不感受到这些情绪。
And we as psychologists know how these processes work, right?
作为心理学家，我们知道这些过程是如何运作的，对吧？
These processes are emotional contagion, where you're literally catching the emotions of other people.
这些过程是情绪传染，你实际上是在捕捉其他人的情绪。
And so oftentimes the things that you most worry about to be happy yourself is focusing on the happiness of the people around you, because that literally becomes your happiness at a very fundamental level.
通常，你最担心自己幸福的事情就是关注周围人的幸福，因为这从根本上成为你的幸福。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah, I'm pausing just to think about this a little bit more.
是的，我停下来只是想再想一下这个问题。
As we grow up, and I realize it varies by place and lots of circumstances, but as we grow up, we are taught to pay attention to how our life is going a bit from the outside, where you-
随着我们的成长，我意识到它会因地点和环境而异，但随着我们的成长，我们被教导要从外部关注我们的生活，在那里你-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
gain evaluations starting really young.
从很小的时候就开始获得评价。
Little stars on our pictures, or good job, or nowadays they say great effort in drawing.
我们照片上的小星星，要么做得好，要么现在他们说画画很努力。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This whole thing, the growth mindset language.
这整件事，成长心态语言。
But I don't know that in the United States we are taught to think about being happy in our life.
但我不知道在美国我们被教导要思考生活的幸福。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
As kids, I think all kids, all mammals seem to gravitate towards joyful experiences for them.
作为孩子，我认为所有的孩子、所有的哺乳动物似乎都倾向于享受快乐的经历。
Playing is almost always an innate joyful experience.
玩耍几乎总是一种与生俱来的快乐体验。
But then as the evaluations start coming in, we get better and better at assessing our performance and where we are relative to the sort of standard goals of the third grade, the fifth grade, the 12th grade.
但随着评估的开始，我们越来越善于评估我们的表现以及我们相对于三年级、五年级、十二年级的标准目标的情况。
But at the same time, I don't think anyone ever sat me down and said, "How are you going to evaluate if you're feeling good in your life?" That you're savoring your soccer game, that you're savoring your time with friends.
但与此同时，我认为没有人让我坐下来说：“你如何评价你的生活是否感觉良好？”你正在享受你的足球比赛，你正在享受与朋友在一起的时光。
That was never taught to me.
这从来没有教过我。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And I think there's a real danger of these kind of extrinsic rewards, as you might call them, all the stuff outside, the grades, the performance measures and so on, literally stealing your intrinsic rewards.
我认为这些外在奖励确实存在危险，正如你所说的那样，所有外面的东西，成绩，绩效衡量标准等等，实际上都窃取了你的内在奖励。
There's this funny phenomenon in psychology where if you have something that's intrinsically rewarding, so let's say exercise.
心理学中有一个有趣的现象，如果你有一些本质上有益的东西，那么就说锻炼吧。
I want to go out and run a bunch.
我想出去跑一圈。
I love running.
我喜欢跑步。
I get this intrinsic reward from running.
我从跑步中获得了这种内在的奖励。
Now I get some sort of tool, whether it's my watch or something I'm scribbling down in a phone app, and I have to log my running.
现在我有了某种工具，无论是我的手表还是我在手机应用程序中记下的东西，我都必须记录我的跑步情况。
Now it becomes a sort of extrinsic reward.
现在它变成了一种外在奖励。
It's not just the feeling of running, but it sort of takes on this extrinsic idea.
这不仅仅是跑步的感觉，而且还带有这种外在的想法。
And then what happens is sometimes we end up going for that reward anyway.
然后有时我们最终还是会去追求那种奖励。
The fiction writer David Sedaris has this wonderful article called "The Fitbit Life" where he talks about how he wanted to get fit.
小说作家 David Sedaris 发表了一篇精彩的文章，名为“The Fitbit Life”，他在其中谈到了他想要如何保持健康。
Its intrinsic reward of exercising more.
这是更多锻炼的内在奖励。
And he got the Fitbit, and then it was all about the Fitbit, and he would set the level higher and set the level higher, and he himself was miserable and no longer enjoying running to the point that at some point he just would walk around shaking his arm just to get up to those final steps.
他得到了 Fitbit，然后一切都与 Fitbit 有关，他将级别设置得更高，设置得更高，他自己很痛苦，不再享受跑步，以至于在某些时候他只是摇晃手臂来走动，只是为了完成最后的步骤。
That's a really terrible case where your extrinsic reward winds up taking over.
这是一个非常糟糕的情况，你的外在奖励最终会取代你。
But so many of the cases you just talked about are ones in our real life where that comes up much more insidiously than with a Fitbit or something like that.
但你刚才谈到的很多案例都是在我们现实生活中出现的，比 Fitbit 或类似的东西要阴险得多。
You talked about play in mammals, the easiest thing that little kid animals do all over the place.
你谈到了哺乳动物的玩耍，这是小动物在各处所做的最简单的事情。
Little kid humans don't do that as much anymore, because even from really young ages, they're in toddler university where they're kind of learning things to get into the next grade and get the perfect grades so they can get into institutions like ours.
小孩子们不再这样做了，因为即使从很小的时候起，他们就在幼儿大学学习一些东西，以便进入下一个年级并获得完美的成绩，这样他们就可以进入像我们这样的机构。
It all becomes about extrinsic rewards.
这一切都与外在奖励有关。
And so I think you're really right.
所以我认为你是对的。
We're kind of extrinsicizing all the rewards to the point that we're not getting to internal happiness.
我们将所有的奖励外在化，以至于我们无法获得内心的快乐。
It was hard already to pay attention to that stuff because, and I think we'll probably talk about this, it's hard to be mindful about your emotions.
关注这些东西已经很困难了，因为我想我们可能会讨论这个，因为很难关注你的情绪。
You really have to pay attention to what's going on.
你真的必须注意正在发生的事情。
But I think it's gotten even harder because we have these metrics.
但我认为这变得更加困难，因为我们有这些指标。
They're all over the place in our culture, but they're just not the intrinsic thing.
它们在我们的文化中无处不在，但它们并不是本质。
They're some extrinsic marker that could make the intrinsic thing even less fun.
它们是一些外在的标记，可能会让内在的事情变得更加无趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For people that grow up or live in areas where, well, let's just say that have less disposable wealth, there must be data on sort of relationship to intrinsic versus extrinsic forces on happiness.
对于在可支配财富较少的地区长大或生活的人来说，必须有关于幸福的内在力量与外在力量之间关系的数据。
I can make up all sorts of stories in my head about how people starting out from very different circumstances would be more or less happy, but what do the data say?
我可以在脑海中编造各种各样的故事，讲述从不同环境开始的人们会或多或少感到幸福，但数据说明了什么？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
So these effects of kind of resources on happiness are really interesting, and they're nuanced.
因此，各种资源对幸福感的影响非常有趣，而且是微妙的。
So if you look at the lower end of the kind of income spectrum, you would obviously say that money affects happiness.
因此，如果你看看这种收入范围的低端，你显然会说金钱影响幸福。
If you can't put food on the table, if you can't put a roof over your head, definitely getting a little bit more money is going to affect your happiness in a positive way.
如果你不能让餐桌上有食物，如果你不能让自己有栖身之所，那么多赚一点钱肯定会对你的幸福产生积极的影响。
And the data sort of bear this out.
数据也证实了这一点。
There's a very famous study by the Nobel Prize-winning economist Danny Kahneman, RIP.
诺贝尔经济学奖获得者丹尼·卡尼曼（Danny Kahneman）有一项非常著名的研究，RIP。
Back in 2010, he did this cool study where he looked at the correlation between income and happiness, as reported in how much stress you have, how much positive emotion you experience, and so on.
早在 2010 年，他就做了一项很酷的研究，研究了收入和幸福感之间的相关性，如你承受的压力有多大、你经历了多少积极情绪等等。
At the low end of the income scales, it just goes up and up and up.
在收入水平的低端，它只会不断上升。
More money just almost linearly gives you more happiness.
更多的钱几乎呈线性地给你带来更多的幸福。
But what Danny found, and is the second part of this nuanced picture, is that that slope kind of levels off, and it levels off in 2010 dollars at around $75,000.
但丹尼发现，也就是这张微妙图片的第二部分，斜率趋于平稳，2010 年的价格稳定在 75,000 美元左右。
What does that mean?
这意味着什么？
That means if you get more than $75,000, you're not going to feel any less stressed.
这意味着，如果您获得超过 75,000 美元，您的压力也不会减轻。
You're not going to experience any more positive emotion.
你不会再体验到任何积极的情绪。
Even if I double or triple or quadruple your income, on those metrics, you're not going to see any increase.
即使我将你的收入增加一倍、三倍或四倍，根据这些指标，你也不会看到任何增加。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And those are pre-tax 2010?
这些是2010年税前的吗？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
They didn't get into their real-
他们没有进入他们的真实——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay
好的
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
because usually you're like, "Oh my God, well, I live in California." If you live in Iowa, maybe it's not so bad.
因为通常你会说，“天哪，好吧，我住在加利福尼亚州。”如果你住在爱荷华州，也许情况并没有那么糟糕。
And those numbers will change, but the upshot is there's probably some number in 2025, 2024 numbers that might be maybe $100,000, $120,000, whatever it is.
这些数字会发生变化，但结果是 2025 年、2024 年可能会有一些数字，可能是 100,000 美元、120,000 美元，无论是什么。
The point is that there's some number at which getting more is not going to increase your happiness at the same slope.
关键是，在某个数字下，获得更多并不会以相同的斜率增加你的幸福感。
Now, there's been nuanced fights about this, as there is a lot in kind of real research about, well, is that really true?
现在，关于这个问题存在着微妙的争论，因为有很多真正的研究，嗯，这是真的吗？
Does the slope really ever go up?
坡度真的会上升吗？
And now the picture seems to be, well, the slope might go up a teeny, tiny, negligible bit, but it doesn't go up as much as, say, getting an extra 10 minutes of exercise in or another 20 minutes of sleep or scribbling the things you're grateful for.
现在的情况似乎是，嗯，斜率可能会上升一点点，很小，可以忽略不计，但它不会上升那么多，比如说，额外 10 分钟的锻炼，或者另外 20 分钟的睡眠，或者写下你感激的事情。
All those things will impact your happiness much more than quintupling your income.
所有这些事情对你幸福感的影响远远大于你收入的五倍。
And so do your resources affect happiness?
那么你的资源会影响幸福吗？
Yeah.
是的。
If you ain't got any resources, you definitely will feel happier if you can get them.
如果你没有任何资源，如果你能得到它们，你一定会感到更快乐。
But if you have a lot, getting more really isn't going to help.
但如果你有很多，获得更多确实没有帮助。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sorry to interrupt, but lately I've been saying on the basis of those findings about this then 75-
抱歉打扰，但最近我一直在说基于这些发现，然后 75-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
K per year, probably now, like you said, 100 to 125K, let's just say something like that, would be the equivalent amount that money indeed cannot buy happiness, but it can buffer stress.
每年K，可能现在就像你说的，100到125K，我们就这么说吧，相当于金钱确实买不到幸福，但它可以缓冲压力。
Do you think that's true?
你认为这是真的吗？
You're making me rethink that statement.
你让我重新思考那句话。
Maybe it doesn't buffer stress past a certain amount.
也许它不能缓冲超过一定程度的压力。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I think in the original Kahneman data, he found that it doesn't.
我认为在卡尼曼的原始数据中，他发现事实并非如此。
How much stress you report on a daily basis was literally one of the measures they were using for happiness.
你每天报告的压力有多少，实际上是他们用来衡量幸福感的衡量标准之一。
But I think you're right.
但我认为你是对的。
The risk around it can buffer it, right?
周围的风险可以缓冲它，对吗？
I think if you're at a certain set of means, you know that if a bad thing happens, you're going to be okay.
我认为如果你有某种手段，你就知道即使发生坏事，你也会没事的。
So it can allow you to make riskier decisions.
因此它可以让您做出风险更大的决定。
It can allow you to do things that you might not do if you're right at that boundary where losing some money might pop you back down.
它可以让你做一些你可能不会做的事情，如果你正处于那个界限，失去一些钱可能会让你退缩。
I think the problem is that one of the ways we evaluate our financial situation, but pretty much every situation, I think this goes back to the neuroscience, is that we don't do it objectively, we do it relative.
我认为问题在于我们评估财务状况的方式之一，但几乎每种情况，我认为这都可以追溯到神经科学，我们不是客观地这样做，而是相对地这样做。
And when you think about your relative financial status, there's lots of other folks around to whom you're comparing yourself.
当您考虑自己的相对财务状况时，周围有很多其他人正在与您进行比较。
I think one of the reasons that rich folks don't necessarily think they're less stressed when they have very high levels of wealth and so on is because they're looking around and everyone's doing much better than them.
我认为，当富人拥有很高的财富时，他们不一定会认为自己压力较小，等等的原因之一是因为他们环顾四周，发现每个人都比他们做得好得多。
And this is just a fundamental feature of the way we evaluate stuff, right?
这只是我们评估事物的方式的一个基本特征，对吧？
Is that we don't evaluate in objective terms, we evaluate relative to these reference points.
就是我们不客观地评估，我们相对于这些参考点进行评估。
And honestly, as you get richer, you're kind of going up this sort of logarithmic scale where the reference points are getting even further away from you.
老实说，当你变得更富有时，你就会以这种对数尺度上升，参考点离你越来越远。
And I think that that can have a huge hit on people's perception of their own happiness and their perception of their stress levels, right?
我认为这会对人们对自己幸福感和压力水平的看法产生巨大影响，对吗？
Because they're working towards a goal that's probably not going to make them that much happier, but they haven't kind of abandoned this intuition that more money will make me happy.
因为他们正在努力实现一个可能不会让他们那么快乐的目标，但他们并没有放弃这种直觉，即更多的钱会让我快乐。
On my podcast, "The Happiness Lab," I had this guy, Clay Cockerell, who is really fun.
在我的播客“幸福实验室”中，我邀请了克莱·科克雷尔（Clay Cockerell），他真的很有趣。
He's a wealth psychologist, so he's a mental health professional that only works with the .0001%.
他是一位财富心理学家，所以他是一位只与 0.0001% 的人打交道的心理健康专家。
And already we should say, well, if wealth made you happy, he should be out of a job.
我们已经应该说，好吧，如果财富让你快乐，他就应该失业。
But no, he has lots of clients, lots of, I guess, very well-paying clients.
但不，他有很多客户，我猜，很多都是薪水很高的客户。
He looked like he was doing well for himself.
他看起来自己过得很好。
But he talks about how those folks haven't abandoned this notion that more money will make them happy.
但他谈到这些人并没有放弃这样的观念：更多的钱会让他们快乐。
They set some standard like, "As soon as I get 50 million, I'll be happy," or, "As soon as I become a billionaire." But then they get to that point, they're not feeling any more positive emotion, they're not feeling less stressed.
他们设定了一些标准，比如“一旦我得到5000万，我就会很高兴”，或者“一旦我成为亿万富翁”。但当他们到达那个点时，他们并没有感受到任何更积极的情绪，他们也没有感到压力减轻。
And rather than saying, "Well, hang on, maybe that hypothesis was wrong.
而不是说：“好吧，等等，也许这个假设是错误的。
More money doesn't work," they say, "Ah, the hypothesis, it's all right.
更多的钱是行不通的，”他们说，“啊，这个假设，没关系。
More money will make me happy.
更多的钱会让我快乐。
It wasn't 50 million, now it's 100 million," or whatever it is.
以前不是 5000 万，现在是 1 亿”，或者不管是什么。
And so I think that that's a lot due to the fact that folks are comparing their wealth levels against others.
所以我认为这很大程度上是因为人们将自己的财富水平与其他人进行比较。
And our comparison system sucks because we constantly compare ourselves against others, but we never pick people that are doing worse than us.
我们的比较系统很糟糕，因为我们不断地将自己与他人进行比较，但我们从不挑选比我们做得更差的人。
We always pick people who are doing better than us.
我们总是选择比我们做得更好的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I know a fair number of very happy, wealthy people.
我认识很多非常快乐、富有的人。
I know a fair number of very miserable wealthy people.
我认识很多非常悲惨的富人。
I know a fair number of happy non-wealthy people, and a fair number of miserable inside, they report feeling miserable, unwealthy people.
我认识相当多快乐的非富裕人士，也认识相当多内心痛苦的人，他们报告说感觉痛苦、不富裕。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Well, it fits completely with what a lot of the happiness research suggests, right?
嗯，它完全符合许多幸福研究的建议，对吗？
Which is that it's much less about our circumstances than we think when it comes to who's happy and who's not, right?
也就是说，当谈到谁快乐、谁不快乐时，我们的处境并不像我们想象的那么重要，对吗？
We often think if I could get more money, or if I could get more accolades at work, or if I could get a new partner, if I could move somewhere, I'd be happier.
我们经常想，如果我能得到更多的钱，或者如果我可以在工作中获得更多的荣誉，或者如果我可以找到一个新的合作伙伴，如果我可以搬到某个地方，我会更快乐。
But exactly what you're saying, if you look at people with all those different life circumstances, both the good version and the bad version, you find some happy folks and some not so happy folks.
但正如你所说，如果你观察生活环境不同的人，无论是好的还是坏的，你会发现一些快乐的人和一些不那么快乐的人。
And now what researchers are starting to think is that it actually doesn't involve our circumstances as much as we think.
现在研究人员开始认为，它实际上并不像我们想象的那样涉及我们的环境。
Again, I like would bracket it, unless those circumstances are really dire.
再说一遍，我喜欢将其括起来，除非情况真的很糟糕。
Circumstances don't matter as much as we think.
环境并不像我们想象的那么重要。
It tends to be the kind of stuff that's much more under our control than our circumstances, right?
它往往是一种比我们的环境更受我们控制的东西，对吗？
It tends to be how we behave, what thought patterns we use, the emotions we seek out, the social connection we experience.
它往往是我们的行为方式、我们使用的思维模式、我们寻求的情感、我们经历的社会联系。
Those things matter much more.
这些事情更重要。
And so I think your experience with the happy and not so happy rich folks and the happy and not so happy poor folks kind of bear out what we think, which is like, it's just not your circumstances that doesn't matter as much as you assume.
所以我认为你与快乐和不那么快乐的富人以及快乐和不那么快乐的穷人的经历有点证实了我们的想法，那就是，你的情况并不像你想象的那么重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's talk about this relationship between feelings, thought patterns, and behaviors in the context of happiness.
让我们在幸福的背景下谈谈感受、思维模式和行为之间的关系。
I think anyone listening to this or watching this probably wants to be happy as much as possible.
我想任何听这个或看这个的人可能都希望尽可能快乐。
I suppose there are a few songwriters, poets, and I've got some friends in those domains of life, and they do seem to derive a lot of insight and inspiration and have done amazing things through the kind of depths of unhappy human emotion.
我想有一些歌曲作者、诗人，我在这些生活领域也有一些朋友，他们似乎确实获得了很多洞察力和灵感，并通过人类不快乐的情感深处做出了令人惊奇的事情。
We can get back to that later because I do think there's something about the contrast of moving from these more painful emotions to happiness that's very different than moving from a state of immense happiness to slightly less, but we can get back to that.
我们可以稍后再回到这个问题，因为我确实认为从这些更痛苦的情绪转向幸福的对比与从巨大幸福的状态转变为稍微不那么幸福的状态有很大不同，但我们可以回到这一点。
But most people would like to be happy as much as possible.
但大多数人都希望尽可能快乐。
I certainly would.
我当然会的。
Who wouldn't?
谁不会呢？
And one, of course, can ask, well, should I work on my feelings?
当然，人们可能会问，我应该关注自己的感受吗？
Like, think about my feelings, try and shift my feelings, let my feelings move through me in a cathartic way.
就像，想想我的感受，尝试改变我的感受，让我的感受以一种宣泄的方式流过我的身体。
Should I work on the thought patterns?
我应该研究思维模式吗？
Should I work on the behaviors?
我应该在行为上努力吗？
I'm a big believer from my own experience that behaviors are powerful in setting the general trajectory of thought patterns and feelings.
根据我自己的经验，我坚信行为对于设定思维模式和感受的总体轨迹非常强大。
But I've also experienced it going the other way, too.
但我也经历过相反的情况。
So what does the research say about this?
那么研究对此有何看法呢？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And what can we do?
我们能做什么？
Because everyone wants to be happier.
因为每个人都想变得更幸福。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, we just talked about the thing you're not supposed to do.
好吧，我们刚刚讨论了你不应该做的事情。
You don't have to change your circumstances.
你不必改变你的处境。
And that's great because quintupling your income is tricky, moving is tricky, switching your life around all over the place is hard, right?
这很好，因为让你的收入翻五倍很棘手，搬家很棘手，到处改变你的生活也很困难，对吧？
And the good news is the science shows you don't have to do that.
好消息是科学表明您不必这样做。
That doesn't work as well as you think.
这并不像你想象的那么有效。
But you can hack your behaviors and your thought patterns and your feelings to get some good results, right?
但你可以改变你的行为、你的思维模式和你的感受，以获得一些好的结果，对吗？
Let's take behaviors, right?
我们来看看行为吧？
One of the biggest behavioral changes you can make to feel happier is just to get a little bit more social connection.
为了感到更快乐，你可以做出的最大的行为改变之一就是获得更多的社交联系。
Like psychologists do these fun studies where they look at people's daily usage patterns.
就像心理学家所做的这些有趣的研究一样，他们观察人们的日常使用模式。
So how much time are you spending sleeping or exercising or at work or whatever.
那么你有多少时间花在睡觉、锻炼、工作或其他方面。
And the two things that predict whether or not you're happy or not so happy is how much time you spend with friends and family members, and how much time you're just physically around other people Like, the more of that you do, the happier you're going to be.
预测你是否快乐的两件事是你花多少时间与朋友和家人在一起，以及你有多少时间与其他人在一起。就像，你做的越多，你就会越快乐。
And, that's just a correlation, right?
而且，这只是一种相关性，对吧？
So your savvy listeners are thinking right now, like, well, is it that hanging around with other people causes you to be happier, or do you tend to hang out with other people more if you are happy?
所以你精明的听众现在正在思考，是不是和其他人在一起会让你更快乐，或者如果你快乐，你会更多地和其他人在一起吗？
Like, which direction does the causal arrow go?
比如，因果箭头朝哪个方向走？
And here we have these lovely studies by psychologists who do these kind of funny experiments where they offer people a $10 Starbucks gift card to just talk to somebody.
这里我们有心理学家进行的这些有趣的研究，他们做了一些有趣的实验，他们向人们提供一张 10 美元的星巴克礼品卡，让他们可以与某人交谈。
Usually to talk to a stranger, that they don't know on the train.
通常在火车上与不认识的陌生人交谈。
Some lovely work by Nick Epley and others have done this, where you force people to get social.
尼克·艾普利（Nick Epley）和其他人的一些可爱的工作就做到了这一点，你可以强迫人们进行社交。
And what people predict, especially with strangers, is like, ooh, that's going to feel awkward and kind of weird.
人们的预测，尤其是对陌生人来说，是这样的，哦，这会让人感到尴尬和奇怪。
But what you find across the board, and this includes in introverts and extroverts, is that talking to somebody actually feels good.
但你会发现，无论是内向者还是外向者，与某人交谈实际上感觉很好。
It increases your positive emotion.
它会增加你的积极情绪。
It gives you a sense that your life is going better.
它让你感觉你的生活正在变得更好。
You feel less lonely.
你感觉不那么孤独了。
It just has these positive outcomes that we don't expect.
它只是带来了我们意想不到的积极成果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love social connection.
我喜欢社交联系。
The problem I have with social connection is that if I drop in with somebody for 30 minutes or a couple of hours, when that's done, I usually have so much that I need to tend to that I end up staying up later than I need to in order to complete that, diminishing my sleep, and then I feel like there's a underlying kind of sinking ship sense to my physiology- ...
我在社交方面遇到的问题是，如果我去拜访某人 30 分钟或几个小时，当这一切完成后，我通常有太多需要处理的事情，以至于我最终会熬夜来完成这些事情，从而减少了我的睡眠，然后我感觉我的生理机能有一种潜在的沉船感——……
and then I have to recover my sleep.
然后我必须恢复睡眠。
So, everything's a trade-off.
所以，一切都是一个权衡。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's interesting about the study you just mentioned is that it's just a brief coffee, presumably.
您刚才提到的研究的有趣之处在于，它可能只是一杯简短的咖啡。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So maybe one doesn't need to spend quite as much time with people.
因此，也许一个人不需要花那么多时间与人相处。
But I think even years ago, actually, he's dead now, but there was a, I guess it's okay to say, even though he's dead, he was a somewhat eccentric professor-
但我想，即使是几年前，实际上，他现在已经死了，但是，我想可以说，即使他死了，他也是一个有点古怪的教授——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
at UC Berkeley.
在加州大学伯克利分校。
I took a class from him when I was a graduate student there, named Seth Roberts.
当我还是那里的研究生时，我上过他的课，他的名字叫塞思·罗伯茨。
He's known for some kind of bizarre theories about eating and-
他以某种关于饮食的奇怪理论而闻名，而且——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If people want to look this up, I mean, like really kind of different stuff, but I applaud his bravery in just being out there.
如果人们想查找这个，我的意思是，喜欢真正不同的东西，但我赞赏他勇敢地站在那里。
But he was an eccentric guy, and he told us in this class when I was there, that it was very important to see faces-
但他是个古怪的人，当我在那里的时候，他在这堂课上告诉我们，看到面孔非常重要——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
at least once a day.
每天至少一次。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Real faces.
真实的面孔。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Mm.
毫米。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not on a screen.
不在屏幕上。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This was before social media, but-
这是在社交媒体出现之前，但是——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and that it was important at some point to leave your apartment, and see the barista and say, "Hello," and, "Thank you," and see people on the street.
在某些时候离开你的公寓，见咖啡师并说“你好”和“谢谢”，看看街上的人是很重要的。
And now knowing what we know about these dedicated areas of the brain, like the fusiform face gyrus, and Nancy Kanwisher's work, and about these brain areas, like we are hardwired for seeing faces and recognizing faces.
现在我们知道了我们对大脑的这些专用区域（如梭状面回）和南希·坎维舍尔（Nancy Kanwisher）的工作的了解，以及对这些大脑区域（如我们天生就可以看到面孔和识别面孔）的了解。
Now, that alone doesn't mean that seeing faces is a requirement for being happy on a consistent basis, but I think they were onto something.
现在，仅凭这一点并不意味着看到面孔是持续快乐的必要条件，但我认为他们是有道理的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think Seth was onto something, even though he had some also just like completely crazy ideas.
我认为赛斯有一些想法，尽管他也有一些完全疯狂的想法。
This idea doesn't seem crazy.
这个想法看起来并不疯狂。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This has been my experience.
这是我的经历。
Even though I spend a lot of time alone, if I go a few days without seeing a face-
即使我一个人呆了很多时间，如果我几天都见不到脸——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
something happens inside that shifts my internal kind of set point for well-being.
内心发生的一些事情改变了我内心的幸福设定点。
And then you see somebody, and it's like delightful, even if it's just a hello-
然后你看到某人，感觉很愉快，即使只是打个招呼——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
kind of thing.
之类的事情。
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
I think the reason why social connection matters so much is it's building off this basic neural circuitry, right, for seeing faces and so on.
我认为社交联系如此重要的原因是它建立了这种基本的神经回路，对吧，用于看到面孔等。
I think that gives us a real insight into the kinds of social connections that work best, right?
我认为这让我们真正了解了哪种社交关系最有效，对吗？
Which has been characterized in the field as sort of in real time social connection, right?
该领域的特点是实时社交联系，对吧？
Which we're moving away from.
我们正在远离它。
So what do I mean by in real time?
那么实时是什么意思呢？
You and I are sitting in a studio right now chatting, and we're kind of chatting in real time.
你和我现在坐在工作室里聊天，我们是实时聊天。
I can see your face.
我能看到你的脸。
We're live.
我们还活着。
But we might have been able to do this over some sort of video chat.
但我们也许可以通过某种视频聊天来做到这一点。
Wouldn't be as good, but it's pretty good, and the reason it seems to be pretty good is we're doing it in real time, right?
不会那么好，但它相当不错，而且它看起来相当不错的原因是我们正在实时进行，对吗？
Our auditory system, our visual system, all these systems that are used to, as primates, processing things with other folks around you, it works reasonably well.
我们的听觉系统、视觉系统，所有这些系统，作为灵长类动物，都用来与周围的其他人一起处理事物，它们运作得相当好。
What doesn't work so well is how we often communicate, which is over Slack, over text.
不太有效的是我们经常通过 Slack、通过文本进行交流的方式。
I text you, voomp, a few minutes later, voomp, it comes back.
我给你发短信，噗，几分钟后，噗，就回来了。
Like, our primate brain's just like that's just not the way communication is set to work.
就像我们灵长类动物的大脑一样，这并不是沟通的方式。
And so I think sometimes when I bring up social connection, people think like, "Oh, I got to see people in person, and my friends kind of live far away, and I'm at work all day." It's like, no, you can connect, not necessarily live and in person, but as much as possible, try to do it in real time.
因此，我认为有时当我提到社交联系时，人们会想，“哦，我必须亲自见人，而我的朋友住得很远，而我整天都在工作。”就像，不，你可以联系，不一定是现场和面对面的，但尽可能地尝试实时进行。
And I think that's in part, and if possible, try to do it with video, I think, for the reason that you were just talking about, is that faces activate us.
我认为这是部分原因，如果可能的话，尝试用视频来做到这一点，我认为，因为你刚才谈到的原因，是面孔激活了我们。
But we're primates that are also really good at language and paying attention to the voice.
但我们是灵长类动物，也非常擅长语言并关注声音。
I think it's one of the reasons that an old school phone conversation, no video chat with your friend, can be some of the most emotional connective conversations, sometimes better than in person, because when we're in person, we're pulling out our phones and checking and paying attention to other stuff.
我认为这是老派的电话交谈（不与朋友进行视频聊天）可以成为最情感化的联系对话的原因之一，有时比面对面的交谈更好，因为当我们面对面时，我们会拿出手机检查并关注其他事情。
But we got to get back towards in real time.
但我们必须实时返回。
The other stuff just doesn't have the same psychological oomph.
其他的东西就没有同样的心理魅力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is there any evidence that texting actually drives more of a desire for more social connection, and thus leaves us feeling less well than prior to a text exchange?
是否有任何证据表明，发短信实际上更多地激发了对更多社交联系的渴望，从而让我们感觉不如短信交流之前那么舒服？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I realize it's very hard to separate out the variables about-
因为我意识到很难区分出以下变量：
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Totally
完全
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
what's the nature of the text exchange?
文本交换的本质是什么？
How often do you see this person in real life, et cetera.
您在现实生活中多久见到这个人等等。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I could imagine that texting, the voomp, I don't do the sound effect as well as you do.
但我可以想象短信、声音、声音效果我做的不如你。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I like that.
但我喜欢这样。
But that texting could be the equivalent of getting crumbs of nourishment-
但短信可能相当于获得了营养碎屑——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
not full nourishment.
营养不充分。
I could also imagine that it's like putting nourishment just out of reach.
我也可以想象这就像把营养放在遥不可及的地方。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm asking this really at a neurological level.
我实际上是在神经学层面上问这个问题。
Do we know, is the reward circuitry that's triggered by in real life social connection triggered, but to a lesser degree by text exchange or by Zoom exchange?
我们是否知道，奖励回路是由现实生活中的社交联系触发的，但在较小程度上是由文本交换或 Zoom 交换触发的？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
There's not-
没有-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or this would be an important study to do, I think.
或者我认为这将是一项重要的研究。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
There's not great evidence for it, but my intuition is that the way it works is almost like texting's sort of the NutraSweet of social connection, right?
没有充分的证据证明这一点，但我的直觉是，它的工作方式几乎就像发短信的社交联系的 NutraSweet，对吧？
I was feeling this motivation for social connection, and I did it, and I got something that was sort of social.
我感受到了这种社交联系的动力，我做到了，我得到了一些社交的东西。
I got some information, but psychologically, I'm missing the nutritious part of it, right?
我得到了一些信息，但从心理上来说，我错过了其中有营养的部分，对吧？
So it kind of fakes you out into thinking that it's social connection, but it kind of doesn't really work.
所以它会让你误以为这是社交联系，但实际上并没有什么作用。
And I worry that that's what We're all getting a lot of right now.
我担心这就是我们现在所面临的很多情况。
It's just so much easier to participate in the NutraSweet version of social connection because, as political scientists and sociologists and others have pointed out, it's harder to meet with people in real life.
参与 NutraSweet 版本的社交联系要容易得多，因为正如政治学家、社会学家和其他人指出的那样，在现实生活中与人见面更加困难。
We don't have these so-called third spaces where we can get together easily anymore.
我们不再有这些所谓的可以轻松聚会的第三空间了。
There's so many draws of just being on your screen, being alone inside.
仅仅在屏幕上、独自一人在里面有很多吸引人的地方。
I think we're kind of missing out.
我想我们有点错过了。
And so a lot of us are kind of starving nutritionally when it comes to social connection because we're going for the wrong stuff.
因此，当涉及到社交关系时，我们很多人都在营养匮乏，因为我们追求的是错误的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So schedule some, if possible, in real lifetime with somebody.
因此，如果可能的话，在现实生活中与某人安排一些。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Or in real-time.
或者实时。
Call that friend that you haven't talked to.
给那个你还没有说过话的朋友打电话。
And recognize, because this is clear from the psychological research, that your brain is not telling you to do that.
并认识到，因为从心理学研究中可以清楚地看出，你的大脑并没有告诉你这样做。
Probably even when you're listening right now, you're like, "Yeah, I guess that would be helpful for me," but you're not having a craving to talk to your friend.
也许即使你现在正在听，你也会想，“是的，我想这对我会有帮助”，但你并不渴望与你的朋友交谈。
And I think this is the problem with a lot of the behaviors that map onto happiness, is that if you think of the evolutionary pressures for those behaviors, natural selection never had to build in the goal of feeling social.
我认为这是许多与幸福相关的行为的问题，如果你考虑这些行为的进化压力，自然选择从来不需要建立在感觉社交的目标上。
Because we were just in these small bands, it was really easy.
因为我们只是在这些小乐队中，所以这真的很容易。
Natural selection had to build in a kind of craving for sweet, fatty food because those were hard to find.
自然选择必须建立对甜食、高脂肪食物的渴望，因为这些食物很难找到。
Didn't have to build in the craving for a bunch of greens because they were everywhere.
不必培养对一堆绿色蔬菜的渴望，因为它们无处不在。
I think the same thing is true with social connection.
我认为社交关系也是如此。
We just don't have a strong motivation to seek people out because it was just kind of there.
我们只是没有强烈的动机去找人，因为它就在那里。
And so I think our motivation and our reward systems don't cause us to crave it.
所以我认为我们的动机和奖励系统不会让我们渴望它。
But in the modern day, where there's so many substitutes and we're more isolated, I think many of us are kind of experiencing the negative effects of loneliness.
但在现代，替代品太多，我们更加孤立，我认为我们中的许多人都在经历孤独的负面影响。
But then when we think, "Well, what can I do to get out of it?" There's not this like, "I'm starving for connection." We don't have this sort of motivational goal to go out and get it.
但当我们想：“那么，我能做些什么来摆脱困境呢？”不会有“我渴望建立联系”之类的话。我们没有这种走出去并获得它的激励目标。
And so what that can lead to is people making the prediction in their head of like, "I just heard Laurie say that this is a good idea, but like, I don't know.
因此，这可能会导致人们在脑海中做出这样的预测：“我刚刚听到劳里说这是一个好主意，但是我不知道。
Probably not for me or maybe not as important." I think we just don't have systems that tell us to go out and get this stuff.
可能对我来说不那么重要，或者也许不那么重要。”我认为我们只是没有系统告诉我们出去获取这些东西。
So even if your brain is saying, "Eh, it's not that important," try it.
因此，即使你的大脑说：“呃，这没那么重要”，也请尝试一下。
Do your own personal experiment and get a little bit more in real-time social connection and just take a moment to notice immediately after how it made you feel.
做你自己的个人实验，多一点实时的社交联系，花点时间立即注意它给你带来的感受。
And I bet it'll be like all the kind of fitness hacks and nutrition hacks that you talk about on the show where you're like, "Oh my God, that made me feel so much better than I really expected it to."
我敢打赌，这会像你在节目中谈论的所有健身秘诀和营养秘诀一样，“天哪，这让我感觉比我真正预期的要好得多。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。
AG1 is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that also includes prebiotics and adaptogens.
AG1 是一种维生素矿物质益生菌饮料，还包含益生元和适应原。
AG1 is designed to cover all of your foundational nutritional needs, and it tastes great.
AG1 旨在满足您所有的基本营养需求，而且味道极佳。
Now, I've been drinking AG1 since 2012, and I started doing that at a time when my budget for supplements was really limited.
现在，我从 2012 年开始饮用 AG1，当时我的补充剂预算非常有限。
In fact, I only had enough money back then to purchase one supplement, and I'm so glad that I made that supplement AG1.
事实上，当时我的钱只够购买一种补充剂，我很高兴我制作了这款补充剂 AG1。
The reason for that is even though I strive to eat most of my foods from whole foods and minimally processed foods, it's very difficult for me to get enough fruits, vegetables, vitamins and minerals, micronutrients, and adaptogens from food alone.
原因是，尽管我努力吃天然食品和最低限度加工食品中的大部分食物，但我很难仅从食物中获取足够的水果、蔬菜、维生素和矿物质、微量营养素和适应原。
And I need to do that in order to ensure that I have enough energy throughout the day, I sleep well at night, and keep my immune system strong.
我需要这样做，以确保我全天有足够的能量，晚上睡得好，并保持我的免疫系统强大。
But when I take AG1 daily, I find that all aspects of my health, my physical health, my mental health, and my performance, both cognitive and physical, are better.
但是当我每天服用 AG1 时，我发现我的健康各方面，我的身体健康，我的心理健康，以及我的认知和身体表现都更好了。
I know that because I've had lapses when I didn't take AG1, and I certainly felt the difference.
我知道这一点，因为我在不参加 AG1 的时候也曾犯过错误，而且我确实感受到了其中的不同。
I also notice, and this makes perfect sense given the relationship between the gut microbiome and the brain, that when I regularly take AG1, which for me means a serving in the morning or mid-morning and again later in the afternoon or evening, that I have more mental clarity and more mental energy.
我还注意到，考虑到肠道微生物组和大脑之间的关系，这是完全合理的，当我定期服用 AG1（对我来说意味着早上或上午服用一次，下午或晚上再次服用）时，我的思维更加清晰，精力更加充沛。
If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。
Right now, they're giving away five free travel packs and a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2.
目前，他们正在赠送五个免费旅行包和一年的维生素 D3 K2。
Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman to claim that special offer.
再次强调，您可以通过 Drinkag1.com/huberman 领取特别优惠。
If seeing faces, and I don't have evidence for this, but if Seth Roberts was right and what we're talking about here is clearly based on existing data, if seeing faces somehow triggers the reward system in a healthy way that reinforces the social connection thing that fills the vessel-
如果看到面孔，我没有证据证明这一点，但如果塞斯·罗伯茨是对的，我们在这里讨论的显然是基于现有数据，如果看到面孔以某种健康的方式触发奖励系统，从而加强填充容器的社会联系——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that we're connected because we no longer live in small village and tribe type formats.
我们之所以相互联系，是因为我们不再生活在小村庄和部落类型的环境中。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Most of us don't anyway.
无论如何，我们大多数人都不会。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That if we plop down onto the couch and kind of assume the classic C-shaped position of somebody who's about to go on their phone, and you can scroll and see faces.
如果我们一屁股坐在沙发上，摆出典型的 C 形位置，就像某人要打电话一样，你就可以滚动并看到面孔。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You talked about that as a bit of an artificial sweetener giving the illusion of some sort of nourishment, and then you see some stuff, you respond to stuff.
你谈到它是一种人造甜味剂，给人一种某种营养的错觉，然后你看到一些东西，你对一些东西做出反应。
You can see someone kind of dunk on somebody.
你可以看到有人在某人身上扣篮。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe hear a joke, maybe make a joke, and then go into your DMs and read a few, check a few.
也许听到一个笑话，也许开一个笑话，然后进入你的私信并阅读一些，检查一些。
And then you basically got no real social connection.
然后你基本上就没有真正的社交联系了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Correct.
正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You didn't have to move to do it.
你不需要移动就能做到这一点。
And in a lot of ways, this has parallels to the ease of highly processed foods or something like that.
在很多方面，这与高度加工食品或类似食品的便利性相似。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think we're starting to understand this a bit through Jonathan Haidt's work and other people's work, including your own.
我认为，通过乔纳森·海特（Jonathan Haidt）的工作和其他人（包括您自己的）的工作，我们开始对这一点有所了解。
But I don't know that it's anything but really dangerous and bad.
但我不知道这真的很危险而且很糟糕。
I don't want to sound-
我不想发出声音——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
alarmist, but I am really concerned that certainly for the younger generation, but that if we don't have an intrinsic drive to go do something-
危言耸听，但我真的很担心，当然对于年轻一代来说，但如果我们没有内在的动力去做某事——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
We stop doing it
我们停止这样做
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
we stop doing it, and then the brain is pretty plastic throughout the entire life, especially for these low-grade, many times repeated behaviors.
我们停止这样做，那么大脑在整个一生中都具有相当大的可塑性，特别是对于这些低级的、多次重复的行为。
We can just slowly, there's drift.
我们可以慢慢来，有漂移。
And then we wonder why We don't feel so good.
然后我们想知道为什么我们感觉不太好。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
You know how the dopamine system works, right?
你知道多巴胺系统是如何运作的，对吧？
It has these mechanisms to crave stuff that's quick, quick hits.
它有这些机制来渴望快速的东西。
Our instant, when we go on Reddit or go on Instagram and scroll through a feed, we're getting these kind of quick hits.
当我们上 Reddit 或 Instagram 并滚动浏览动态时，我们就会得到这样的快速点击。
Another thing that is rewarding is new information.
另一件有价值的事情是新信息。
Your Stanford colleague, Jamil Zaki, has done these lovely neuroscience studies that just finding out some interesting social information feels rewarding.
你的斯坦福大学同事贾米尔·扎基（Jamil Zaki）做了这些可爱的神经科学研究，仅仅发现一些有趣的社会信息就让人感觉很有价值。
And kind of for the first time, we've been able to separate the reward value that comes from interacting with live human people and faces, and social rewarding information that comes at us quickly at this dopamine hit that we crave a lot, but we don't have the craving mechanisms for the in real life connection.
我们第一次能够将来自与活生生的人和面孔互动的奖励价值与在我们非常渴望的多巴胺冲击时迅速出现的社会奖励信息区分开来，但我们没有对现实生活中的联系的渴望机制。
And yeah, I think that's causing a lot of problems, and it means we're building more tools to do just that.
是的，我认为这引起了很多问题，这意味着我们正在构建更多工具来做到这一点。
I had the musician David Byrne on my podcast, and-
我的播客上有音乐家大卫·伯恩 (David Byrne)，而且-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Talking Heads, David Byrne.
《会说话的头脑》，大卫·伯恩。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Talking Heads, David Byrne-
会说话的头像，大卫·伯恩-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Cool
酷
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
who cares a lot about these issues.
谁非常关心这些问题。
He wrote this really cool article called "Eliminating the Human," where he made the claim that pretty much every technological invention of the last 20 years has been, dealing with actual people is kind of friction-y, so let's just get rid of them.
他写了一篇非常酷的文章，名为《消除人类》，他在文中声称，过去 20 年几乎所有的技术发明，与现实中的人打交道都会产生摩擦，所以让我们摆脱他们吧。
We'll have Uber or Lyft or a car company where I don't have to talk to the driver, I just plug it into the phone.
我们将拥有 Uber、Lyft 或汽车公司，我无需与司机交谈，只需将其插入手机即可。
We don't have to have a conversation, we go away.
我们不必交谈，我们就走开。
We have music and streaming mechanisms.
我们有音乐和流媒体机制。
I don't know, Andrew, you're my age, so you probably remember that you used to have to go into a record store to flip through CDs or tapes even if you're really old school, to figure out music.
我不知道，安德鲁，你和我同龄，所以你可能还记得，即使你真的很老派，你也必须去唱片店翻阅 CD 或磁带来了解音乐。
And often when you do that, you'd run into humans or talk to the cashier guy, or somebody would see you flicking through like, "Oh, you like Talking Heads?
通常，当你这样做时，你会遇到人类或与收银员交谈，或者有人会看到你快速浏览，“哦，你喜欢《会说话的头像》吗？
I like Talking Heads." Now we just go to an algorithm.
我喜欢会说话的头像。”现在我们只讨论算法。
From food delivery apps to education.
从食品配送应用程序到教育。
I have an online course where students don't have to sit in a real classroom with other students, they could watch it directly.
我有一门在线课程，学生不必与其他学生一起坐在真正的教室里，他们可以直接观看。
So many of our technological innovations are assuming that what we want to get rid of is the friction part.
我们的许多技术创新都假设我们想要消除的是摩擦部分。
That's what we're motivated to get rid of.
这就是我们想要摆脱的动力。
But ultimately, we're getting rid of the human in these interactions, and our primate brains are left with the little NutraSweet dribbles of connection when what we really need is something in real life and in real time.
但最终，我们在这些互动中摆脱了人类，当我们真正需要的是现实生活中实时的东西时，我们的灵长类大脑只剩下一些 NutraSweet 的连接。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's interesting because I think just but 10, 15 years ago, our knowledge of most all humans was based on in real life experience, except for famous humans, and then it was not in real life.
这很有趣，因为我认为就在 10、15 年前，我们对大多数人类的了解都是基于现实生活中的经验，除了名人之外，然后它就不再是现实生活中的了。
Now, most people's knowledge about most humans is based on not in real life interactions.
现在，大多数人对大多数人类的了解并不是基于现实生活中的互动。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which means that most people's knowledge about humans generally is accruing through non in real life electronic experiences.
这意味着大多数人关于人类的知识通常是通过非现实生活中的电子体验积累的。
And so that has to change our entire schema of what human experience is.
因此，这必须改变我们对人类经验的整个架构。
I'm not trying to ratchet up to something too abstract here, but I think it's a powerful notion that what Byrne is saying, that we're dehumanizing ourselves through getting essentially fragments of in real life experience.
我并不是想在这里讨论一些过于抽象的东西，但我认为伯恩所说的这是一个强有力的概念，我们通过获取现实生活经验的本质片段来非人化自己。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And video is so captivating as somebody who was a vision scientist for a long time.
对于长期担任视觉科学家的人来说，视频是如此迷人。
If a picture is worth a thousand words, a video is worth 10 billion-
如果一张图片值一千个字，那么一个视频值一百亿——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
pictures.
图片。
And the number of videos that you can access in an Instagram feed or even on an X feed is just astonishing.
您可以在 Instagram feed 甚至 X feed 上访问的视频数量惊人。
And then, of course, the high emotional salient stuff is going to be the stuff that you hover on, and then the algorithm knows your dwell time, as it's called.
然后，当然，高情绪显着的东西将是你悬停的东西，然后算法知道你的停留时间，正如它所说的那样。
And then your basic feed and discovery is set by that.
然后你的基本提要和发现就以此为基础。
And I don't think there's anything really inherently diabolical about it.
我不认为它有什么本质上是邪恶的。
I don't take that stance.
我不采取这种立场。
It's just they figured out some good neuroscience based on behavioral forging.
只是他们在行为锻造的基础上找到了一些好的神经科学。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
The diabolical part is it's having a real consequence for our happiness.
最可怕的是它对我们的幸福产生了真正的影响。
It's certainly having a real consequence for loneliness.
这肯定会对孤独产生真正的影响。
You look at rates of loneliness in young people who've grown up with these technologies, and you see things like young people today report being lonely at rates of 70, 75%.
你看看在这些技术的陪伴下长大的年轻人的孤独率，你会发现像今天的年轻人报告的孤独率高达 70%、75%。
More people are lonely, extremely lonely than not right now.
现在有更多的人感到孤独，甚至极度孤独。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How do we rate loneliness?
我们如何评价孤独？
I'm not-
我不是——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
dismissing what they're saying, but since they grew up that way, this sounds very-
驳回他们所说的话，但由于他们就是这样长大的，这听起来很——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
cross-generational judgment, but how do they know they're lonely?
跨代判断，但他们怎么知道自己孤独呢？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Your point is well taken.
你的观点很好理解。
If anything, they grow up lonely, so if they're self-reporting being lonely now, it might be even worse then.
如果说有什么不同的话，那就是他们在孤独中长大，所以如果他们现在自我报告感到孤独，那么情况可能会更糟。
It might be getting worse over time.
随着时间的推移，情况可能会变得更糟。
Yeah.
是的。
And so this is all self-report data.
这都是自我报告的数据。
So people, on a scale of one to 10, how lonely are you feeling?
那么人们，按照从 1 到 10 的等级，你感觉有多孤独？
But the fact that 75% of people are saying, "Yeah, I feel extremely lonely," that's sad.
但事实上，75% 的人都说，“是的，我感到非常孤独”，这是令人悲伤的。
Our primate ancestors, if they could look at us, would be like, "What?
如果我们的灵长类祖先能够看着我们，他们会说：“什么？
These wonderful social beings."
这些奇妙的社会存在。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They would probably like, "I want to go hide behind that rock for a little bit, get a little bit of space." I'll never forget years ago, there was this time when I worked with ferrets.
他们可能会想，“我想躲在岩石后面一会儿，获得一点空间。”我永远不会忘记几年前，有一次我和雪貂一起工作。
I don't miss it.
我不会错过它。
And they would have these huge litters, and in these pens, the mom could climb up and get up on top there.
他们会有这些巨大的窝，在这些围栏里，妈妈可以爬上去，爬到上面。
And so she'd have these huge litters, and then she'd kick the litter off at some point, and she'd go up there and sleep.
所以她会有这些巨大的垃圾，然后她会在某个时候把垃圾踢掉，然后她就去那里睡觉。
And you go in there to take out the moms, and that was the only time when they didn't want to be bothered.
然后你进去把妈妈们带走，这是他们唯一不想被打扰的时候。
Because they loved to be held and things like that, but they did not want to be bothered because they just needed some peace because they had 16 ferret kits.
因为它们喜欢被抱着之类的东西，但它们不想被打扰，因为它们只需要一些安静，因为它们有 16 个雪貂套件。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I think that nowadays, if there's a lot of loneliness, and people that are growing up in these electronic formats report feeling lonely, and I believe them, then what it speaks to is a yearning.
所以我认为现在，如果有很多孤独感，并且在这些电子格式中长大的人报告说感到孤独，而且我相信他们，那么它所表达的是一种渴望。
And to me, a yearning is a neurological drive, the same way that a room that's too warm, you want to get to a cooler space.
对我来说，渴望是一种神经驱动力，就像房间太热，你想要去一个凉爽的地方一样。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If it's too cold, you want to get to heat.
如果天气太冷，你想取暖。
So the loneliness speaks to an underlying yearning for something that they're not getting.
因此，孤独感说明了他们对得不到的东西的潜在渴望。
I'm just stating the obvious.
我只是陈述显而易见的事情。
But it says that they are doing something that's inherently against the grain of their healthy neurology.
但它说他们正在做的事情本质上违背了他们健康的神经病学的原则。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
The problem is, I think what loneliness is a recognition of is, you know you don't like this state But I'm not sure that loneliness is causing people to seek out more social connection.
问题是，我认为孤独是一种认识，你知道你不喜欢这种状态，但我不确定孤独是否会导致人们寻求更多的社交联系。
Or if it is, you're seeking out the thing that is the easiest, fastest social connection you can get.
或者，如果是的话，您正在寻找可以获得的最简单、最快的社交联系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is just like food.
这就像食物一样。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Which we talk about as the NutraSweetie, yeah.
是的，我们称之为 NutraSweetie。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're not craving vegetables because they were presumably in abundance at one time in our evolutionary history, as opposed to meat or sweets or things like that.
你之所以不想吃蔬菜，是因为在我们进化史上的某个时期，蔬菜的数量可能非常丰富，而不是肉类、糖果或类似的东西。
Fruit and meat.
水果和肉类。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
And I think this is a problem with social connection, but I think it's a problem generally with the kinds of things that make us happier because we just don't have mechanisms to seek those things out.
我认为这是社会联系的问题，但我认为这通常是让我们更快乐的事情的问题，因为我们只是没有机制来寻找这些事情。
They just kind of don't code in our reward system in the same way as the NutraSweetie stuff of the world.
他们只是不像世界上的 NutraSweetie 那样在我们的奖励系统中进行编码。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what is the term, if there is one, or could you come up with one?
那么这个术语是什么？如果有的话，或者你能想出一个吗？
I don't want to put you on the spot for a fundamental desire that's healthy for us that we are not driven to pursue a resolution to.
我不想让你因为一个对我们健康的基本愿望而陷入困境，但我们没有动力去追求一个解决方案。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For everything else, there's the hypothalamic circuits for the desire to mate, to seek warmth when it's cold, cold when it's too warm.
对于其他一切，下丘脑回路会产生交配的欲望，在寒冷时寻求温暖，在太热时寻求寒冷。
We know what hunger is, right?
我们知道什么是饥饿，对吗？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there must be something about the-- I don't want to get too technical here.
但一定有一些关于——我不想在这里讲得太技术性。
For those that are tracking this or not tracking this, what I'm trying to say is for so many of the reward/punishment pathways in the human brain, it's you're trying to avoid the feelings of pain-
对于那些正在跟踪或没有跟踪这一点的人，我想说的是，对于人脑中的许多奖励/惩罚途径，你正在试图避免痛苦的感觉-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and move towards a feeling of either neutrality or pleasure.
并走向中立或愉悦的感觉。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But here you're talking about being in a sort of place of low-level pain, being able to meet that pain with a truly low-level pleasure that then it doesn't mask the pain, but it fills the vessel just enough that then you drive yourself into a place of essentially more pain.
但在这里，你谈论的是处于一种低水平疼痛的地方，能够以一种真正低水平的快乐来应对这种痛苦，这样它就不会掩盖疼痛，而是足以填满血管，然后你就会把自己推向一个本质上更痛苦的地方。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But I think that this is the kind of thing that happens when you have easy outs for all these cravings, right?
但我认为，当你轻松摆脱所有这些渴望时，就会发生这种情况，对吗？
Take processed food.
以加工食品为例。
You probably have a craving for certain nutritional requirements.
您可能渴望某些营养需求。
You want to get vitamins or healthy stuff, but that stuff's easy, it's frictionless.
你想要获取维生素或健康的东西，但这些东西很容易，没有摩擦。
I run to McDonald's, and that's much faster than cooking up a really healthy vegetable-filled meal.
我跑去麦当劳，这比做一顿真正健康的蔬菜饭要快得多。
I think the same thing happens with social connection.
我认为社交联系也会发生同样的事情。
You're a lonely person at your house, sitting on the couch.
你是家里的一个孤独的人，坐在沙发上。
You have this negative bodily state of you feel lonely.
你有这种消极的身体状态，让你感到孤独。
Maybe it kind of manifests as a craving, but what's the fastest thing for you to do?
也许这表现为一种渴望，但对你来说最快做的事情是什么？
I'm going to scroll through my friends' Instagram feeds, or I'm going to get a kind of little mini hit of social connection that's not as nutritious.
我会滚动浏览朋友的 Instagram 动态，或者我会得到一些不太有营养的社交联系。
Honestly, not to diss our respective fields, but I actually think this is one reason that people love podcasts so much.
老实说，并不是要贬低我们各自的领域，但我实际上认为这是人们如此喜爱播客的原因之一。
It's a frictionless way to feel like you're part of this interesting conversation.
这是一种无摩擦的方式，让您感觉自己参与了这场有趣的对话。
But ultimately, it doesn't work as well as picking up the phone and calling a friend, connecting with someone in real life.
但最终，它的效果不如拿起电话打电话给朋友，与现实生活中的某人联系。
I think we have too many outlets for things that kind of feel socially but don't give us social nutrition.
我认为我们有太多的渠道来表达那些有社会感觉的东西，但它们并不能给我们提供社会营养。
And it's true.
这是真的。
We should be honest.
我们应该诚实。
Really connecting with actual people in real life takes more friction than pulling out your phone and scrolling through your Instagram feed.
真正与现实生活中的人建立联系比拿出手机并滚动浏览 Instagram 动态需要更多的摩擦。
It's just the Instagram feed doesn't work as well ultimately when it comes to what's really going to end up being rewarding.
只是当涉及到最终真正获得回报时，Instagram 提要的效果并不那么好。
And I think this is true for just a lot of the way the reward system works.
我认为奖励系统的很多运作方式都是如此。
The things that we have craving for, that we seek out, that we have really strong mechanisms to go after, sometimes those things don't work to get us towards real likability.
我们渴望的东西，我们寻求的东西，我们有真正强大的机制去追求的东西，有时这些东西并不能让我们获得真正的讨人喜欢。
Drugs of addiction are a real obvious answer to this.
成瘾药物是对此问题的一个明显的答案。
If you have a kind of heroin problem, you're going to really seek out that drug, but ultimately, it's not bringing you towards something.
如果你有海洛因问题，你确实会去寻找这种药物，但最终它不会给你带来什么。
It will maybe feel good in the moment, but it's, no, you're not NutraSweetie, but it's not getting you towards something that evolutionarily would be really awesome for your survival and reproductive success.
此刻可能会感觉很好，但事实是，不，你不是 NutraSweetie，但它并没有让你走向进化上对你的生存和繁殖成功真正有利的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I try my best not to speak in tweets, which I guess they now call X posts, but I've been saying a lot, and I'll say it again now that I think everyone should beware any dopamine that is not preceded by effort in order to achieve it.
好吧，我尽量不在推文中说话，我想他们现在称之为 X 帖子，但我已经说了很多，现在我再说一遍，我认为每个人都应该提防任何没有通过努力来实现它的多巴胺。
In other words, any fast, high inflection of dopamine that does not require effort to achieve it is going to put you in a trough and on a metaphorical lever-pressing cycle that will drive your trough deeper and deeper over time.
换句话说，任何不需要努力就能实现的多巴胺的快速、高度变化都会让你陷入低谷，并进入一个隐喻的杠杆按压循环，随着时间的推移，你的低谷会越来越深。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that peak will just never go as high as it did or could again, unless you take a period of abstinence from that behavior or substance and then introduce effort prior to adaptive behavior to get the dopamine.
而且这个峰值永远不会像以前那样高，也不会再达到以前那样高，除非你在一段时间内戒掉这种行为或物质，然后在采取适应性行为之前努力获得多巴胺。
The other thing is I like to think of addiction as a progressive narrowing of the things that bring you pleasure.
另一件事是，我喜欢将成瘾视为逐渐缩小给你带来快乐的事物。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I don't speak to enlightenment, but happiness or enlightenment seems like a progressive broadening of the things that bring you pleasure.
我并不是在谈论启蒙，但幸福或启蒙似乎是逐渐扩大给你带来快乐的事物。
And I'm glad we're talking about reward circuitry because we know how to reset that reward circuitry, and it doesn't require these dopamine fasts, although that's one approach, and that makes sense why people do it.
我很高兴我们正在谈论奖励电路，因为我们知道如何重置奖励电路，并且它不需要这些多巴胺禁食，尽管这是一种方法，而且这也是人们这样做的原因。
But I think this notion of having to spend effort to engage in what we know as a hardwired source of reward, not just dopamine, but other neurochemicals as well-
但我认为，必须花精力去参与我们所知道的奖励的硬性来源，不仅仅是多巴胺，还有其他神经化学物质——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of course, in the form of social connection.
当然，是以社会联系的形式。
So this higher friction thing of having to call somebody or drive someplace or deal with traffic.
因此，必须打电话给某人、开车去某个地方或处理交通问题，这会带来更大的摩擦。
Deal with traffic on the way home.
处理好回家路上的交通问题。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well worth it if it was a good social interaction, but maybe it was a meh social interaction-
如果这是一次良好的社交互动，那很值得，但也许这只是一次无聊的社交互动——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in which case you're like, "Oh, that was a lot of driving today.
在这种情况下，你会说，“哦，今天开车太多了。
I have now all this other stuff to do."
我现在还有其他所有事情要做。”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Other times, a great social interaction can set you in an amazing emotional plane for days, if not weeks.
其他时候，良好的社交互动可以让你在数天甚至数周内处于令人惊叹的情绪状态。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, I think what you're bringing up is really important.
所以，我认为你提出的内容非常重要。
How do we introduce these behaviors?
我们如何引入这些行为？
I'm not asking you to put it into a standardized protocol too much, but since we started with this issue of behaviors being a path to more happiness and social connection being the in real-life social connection or by phone in real-time, as you said, being one of the main paths to behavioral happiness, behaviorally derived happiness, excuse me, then what are the Data on the frequency of this.
我并不是要求你把它太多地放入标准化协议中，但既然我们从行为问题开始，它是通往更多幸福和社会联系的途径，是现实生活中的社交联系或通过电话实时进行的，正如你所说，是行为幸福的主要途径之一，行为衍生的幸福，请原谅，那么关于这种频率的数据是什么。
Does it vary for introverts versus extroverts?
内向的人和外向的人有什么不同吗？
This question's getting very long, but maybe we could define introverts and extroverts, and then if you would, if you could give us some sense of how often should people seek out an in real life interaction?
这个问题很长，但也许我们可以定义内向者和外向者，然后如果你愿意的话，你能否让我们了解人们应该多久寻求一次现实生活中的互动？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Probably way more than you think you should.
可能比你想象的要多得多。
We have good data on what people predict, which is that people predict social interaction is just not going to be that fun.
我们有关于人们预测的良好数据，即人们预测社交互动不会那么有趣。
It's not going to be worth it.
这是不值得的。
This seems to be a spot where our predictions about how good something's going to be don't necessarily match how good it ultimately will going to be.
这似乎是我们对某件事将会有多好的预测不一定与它最终会有多好的地方。
And I put it in the context of the reverse of something like processed food, where I think for a lot of people, you predict this is going to be amazing, and you taste it and you're like, "Now I feel kind of gross."
我把它放在加工食品等相反的背景下，我认为对于很多人来说，你预测这将是惊人的，当你品尝它时，你会说，“现在我感觉有点恶心。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Processed food.
加工食品。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Processed food, right.
加工食品，对吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
That's a case where your prediction is like, "Oh, this is going to be awesome," but your actual likability's like, "Eh, I feel kind of yucky." Where social connection, I think we predict it'll be all right, but maybe not that good.
在这种情况下，你的预测是，“哦，这会很棒”，但你实际的可爱程度是，“呃，我觉得有点恶心。”在社交联系方面，我认为我们预测会没问题，但可能不是那么好。
But when we get it, we feel really great.
但当我们得到它时，我们感觉真的很棒。
The University of Chicago psychologist Nick Epley has this term he uses, undersociality, where he thinks we just kind of don't get the right reward benefit of social connection, writ large.
芝加哥大学心理学家尼克·艾普利（Nick Epley）使用了一个术语“低社会性”（undersociality），他认为我们只是没有从社会联系中获得正确的回报。
He talks about examples of expressing gratitude to people, giving somebody a compliment, even things like asking for help.
他谈到了向人们表达感激之情、给予某人赞美，甚至诸如寻求帮助之类的例子。
All these domains where we can kind of connect with another person, we sort of was like, "Yeah, it may be net good if I was rating it on some scale," but it winds up being way better than we predict in all these contexts.
所有这些我们可以与另一个人联系的领域，我们有点像，“是的，如果我在某种程度上对它进行评级，这可能是净好事”，但最终它比我们在所有这些情况下预测的要好得多。
He does these studies where he has people predict how good something will be.
他进行了这些研究，让人们预测某件事会有多好。
Giving a gift to somebody brings, he's in Chicago, so he's like, "Here's a hot chocolate.
给某人送礼物，他在芝加哥，所以他会说，“这是一杯热巧克力。
How good will it feel to give that guy over there, a stranger, the hot chocolate?" And people say, "I don't know, three out of 10." But then they do it, and then they feel, "Oh, it was more like a six out of 10.
给那边的那个陌生人，一个陌生人，热巧克力感觉有多好？”人们说：“我不知道，十分之三。”但当他们这样做了，然后他们觉得，“哦，这更像是十分之六。
It was much more rewarding for me, the giver, than I thought." Same thing with compliments, expressing gratitude, calling a friend you haven't talked to in a long time, reaching out to somebody that you care about, but you haven't connected with.
对于我这个给予者来说，这比我想象的更有回报。”同样的道理还有赞美、表达感激、给你很久没联系的朋友打电话、联系你关心但没有联系过的人。
All these spots are ones where our predictions are off.
所有这些地方都是我们的预测不正确的地方。
It's not the valence that's off.
这不是化合价的问题。
We know it'll be good, but we just don't realize how good.
我们知道这会很好，但我们只是没有意识到有多好。
And his argument is that if we don't realize how good, then we never seek it out.
他的论点是，如果我们没有意识到它有多好，那么我们就永远不会去寻找它。
So it's kind of the opposite of what you might think of as the processed food problem, where our prediction is like, "Oh my God, that cupcake's going to be so good." We have all these mechanisms that are like, "Go get it." But then we actually get it, we're like, "That wasn't as good as we thought." I think that the problem is that we have all these things that work like the processed food, that interfere with social connection.
因此，这与您可能认为的加工食品问题相反，我们的预测是，“天哪，那个纸杯蛋糕会很棒。”我们拥有所有这些机制，就像“去拿它”。但后来我们真正明白了，我们会说，“这并不像我们想象的那么好。”我认为问题在于我们拥有所有这些像加工食品一样起作用的东西，它们会干扰社会联系。
Going on the Reddit feed, plopping down and watching Netflix, just kind of being by yourself.
浏览 Reddit，坐下来看 Netflix，就像是一个人呆着。
There's all these alternative behaviors that we're predicting are going to feel nice, but then we get there, they feel kind of yucky.
我们预测所有这些替代行为都会让人感觉很好，但当我们到达那里时，他们感觉有点恶心。
Yeah, this is a problem in the happiness space where, I know you talk a lot about the reward system, but the happiness space is one where the cravings we have, the rewards we seek out, the predictions we're making about what feels good, we're often just really wrong with them.
是的，这是幸福空间中的一个问题，我知道你谈论了很多关于奖励系统的问题，但幸福空间是我们的渴望、我们寻求的奖励、我们对感觉良好的预测，我们常常真的错了。
In my podcast, we talk a lot about how our mind lies to us when it comes to our happiness.
在我的播客中，我们谈论了很多关于我们的幸福时我们的思想如何欺骗我们的话题。
We go for more money, we go for accolades, we go for the quick dopamine hits without any work.
我们追求更多的钱，我们追求荣誉，我们追求无需任何工作就能快速获得多巴胺。
But really, it's more like social connection.
但实际上，它更像是社交联系。
It's all these things that we don't expect are going to feel good.
所有这些我们不希望感觉良好的事情。
And so I actually don't know what that means evolutionarily.
所以我实际上不知道这在进化上意味着什么。
My theory is you didn't need to build in craving mechanisms because the things that really matter for our happiness, we just kind of got for free in the evolutionary environment.
我的理论是，你不需要建立渴望机制，因为对我们的幸福真正重要的东西，我们只是在进化环境中免费获得的。
But it means it's hard to go after them.
但这意味着追赶他们很困难。
You mentioned introverts and extroverts, and just to get back to your longer question, this is something that's been studied in them.
你提到了内向者和外向者，回到你的更长的问题，这是在他们身上进行的研究。
So introverts versus extroverts is typically thought of as a personality distinction, often thought of as sort of something that's built in, although there's lots of evidence that over time you can sort of change these things around.
因此，内向者与外向者通常被认为是一种性格差异，通常被认为是一种内在的东西，尽管有大量证据表明，随着时间的推移，你可以改变这些东西。
You can become a little bit more extroverted if you're introverted.
如果你性格内向，你可以变得外向一点。
But introverts tend to value deeper close conversations, one-on-one kinds of things, and a lot of alone time.
但内向的人往往更看重更深入的亲密对话、一对一的事情以及大量的独处时间。
They get a lot of benefit from alone time.
他们从独处的时间中获益匪浅。
Whereas extroverts tend to be more energized by being around other people, especially bigger crowds of people.
而外向的人往往会因为与其他人在一起，尤其是在一大群人身边而变得更有活力。
And so introverts tend to be a little bit more deliberate, a little bit more thoughtful, a little bit more kind of want to have my own personal chill time.
因此，内向的人往往会更加深思熟虑，更加深思熟虑，更加想要拥有自己的个人放松时间。
Whereas extroverts tend to like people.
而外向的人往往喜欢与人交往。
And so you might think that everything I've just said applies to extroverts but not to introverts.
所以你可能会认为我刚才所说的一切都适用于外向的人，但不适用于内向的人。
Folks have gone out and tested this, and what they find is there is a big difference between introverts and extroverts, but it's in that prediction error.
人们已经出去测试过这一点，他们发现内向者和外向者之间存在很大差异，但正是在预测错误中。
Extroverts predict, "Ah, social connection will be all right, not that great." Introverts predict, "It's going to be terrible.
外向的人预测，“啊，社交关系还不错，但不是那么好。”内向的人预测：“这将会很糟糕。
It's going to be awkward.
会很尴尬。
I'm going to hate it." But when you actually force people, as in these studies where you say, "Hey, $10 Starbucks gift card.
我会讨厌它。”但当你真正强迫人们时，就像在这些研究中你说的那样，“嘿，10 美元的星巴克礼品卡。
You got to talk to somebody." When you force the introverts to be social, what they wind up doing is self-reporting a level of happiness that's better than they expected.
你必须和某人谈谈。”当你强迫内向的人进行社交时，他们最终会自我报告幸福程度比他们预期的要好。
So the problem seems to be that introverts have a prediction error.
所以问题似乎是内向的人有预测错误。
I'm going to say this.
我要说的是这个。
I promise you, because I've said this on my podcast, tons of hate mail.
我向你保证，因为我已经在我的播客上说过了，大量的仇恨邮件。
Lots of the comments will be like-
很多评论都会这样——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or-
或者-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
"Not me.
“不是我。
Not this introvert."
不是这个内向的人。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or maybe they don't quite understand, so I want to make sure that it's crystal clear for people.
或者也许他们不太明白，所以我想确保人们清楚地了解这一点。
Introverts anticipate a less than great or even eh interaction, maybe even a negative interaction.
内向的人预计互动不太好，甚至是呃，甚至可能是消极的互动。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
It's usually negative.
通常是负值。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Then they anticipate a negative interaction.
然后他们预计会出现负面互动。
So it's like saying, "We're going to go to a restaurant and the food here is-"
所以这就像说，“我们要去一家餐馆，这里的食物是——”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
It's going to be terrible.
这将是非常可怕的。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it sucks.
太糟糕了。
They go in, they have a decent to maybe a great interaction.
他们进去后，他们进行了一次体面的互动，也许是一次很棒的互动。
So introverts are positioned to derive more pleasure from social interactions-
因此，内向的人能够从社交互动中获得更多乐趣——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Than they expect
超出他们的预期
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
than extroverts who enter social situations thinking it's going to be great.
与那些进入社交场合并认为这会很棒的外向者相比。
Their anticipation is high, and therefore they require a much bigger dopamine inflection-
他们的期望很高，因此他们需要更大的多巴胺变化——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in order to come away from that interaction saying it was great.
为了摆脱那种互动，说这很棒。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Although the one kind of update to the framework that you just presented that I'd add is that you said, well, if you go to the restaurant, you predict it's going to be not that good, and you go and you're like, "Oh, it was all right." I think the problem with introverts is they so predict that social connection's going to be awkward that they don't engage in it.
尽管我要补充的对您刚才提出的框架的一种更新是，您说，好吧，如果您去餐馆，您预测它不会那么好，然后您去了，然后您会说，“哦，没关系。”我认为内向者的问题在于，他们预测社交关系会很尴尬，因此他们不参与其中。
And now this becomes a learning cycle.
现在这变成了一个学习周期。
You predicted it was going to be crappy.
你预测它会很糟糕。
You never got any evidence, "Oh, maybe I was wrong." And so you keep doing that over time.
你永远不会得到任何证据，“哦，也许我错了。”所以随着时间的推移，你会继续这样做。
And so I think that this can lead to cycles of loneliness in introverts.
所以我认为这可能会导致内向者陷入孤独循环。
And there are these lovely accounts of introverts who try to become a little bit more extroverted.
还有一些关于内向者试图变得更外向的可爱故事。
I had this lovely woman, Jessica Pan, on the show, who has this book called "Sorry I'm Late, I Didn't Want to Come;"
我的节目中有一位可爱的女士，杰西卡·潘，她有一本名为《对不起，我迟到了，我不想来》的书；
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love that title
我喜欢这个标题
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
colon-
冒号-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm actually pretty social, but I'm late to everything-
我其实很善于交际，但我什么事情都迟到了——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because I'm an academic.
因为我是一名学者。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Noon means noon 10:00- ...
Noon是指中午10:00-...
which means starting at 12:15, which means at 1:15 when the lecture was supposed to end at 1:00, you're still going and half the room is full.
这意味着从 12:15 开始，这意味着在 1:15 讲座本来应该在 1:00 结束的时候，你仍然要去，而一半的房间已经满了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But this is not just like she had a reason.
但这不仅仅是她有理由。
She's like-
她就像——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Any academic knows what I'm talking about.
任何学者都知道我在说什么。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, no. I'm with you.
是的，不。我和你在一起。
But, "Sorry I'm late, I didn't want to come: An introvert's guide to extroverting." So she did this year where, as a super hardcore introvert, she talked to people, joined an improv comedy group, went to these social networking kind of businessy, nasty social connection events, just did all this stuff.
但是，“抱歉我迟到了，我不想来：内向者的外向指南。”所以她今年做了这样的事，作为一个超级内向的人，她与人交谈，加入了一个即兴喜剧团体，参加了这些社交网络类型的商业、肮脏的社交活动，就做了所有这些事情。
And what she found was two things.
她发现了两件事。
One is that she did enjoy it a lot more than she thought.
一是她确实比她想象的更喜欢它。
At the end of the year, she was much happier than she expected, but she also watched her habits changing, too.
到了年底，她比自己预想的要快乐得多，但她也看到自己的习惯发生了变化。
And this is a thing I think that we also get wrong about introverts and extroverts is we assume, "I'm born that way, never going to change." And it is true that there are predispositions towards this stuff, but the data suggests that if you can maybe update your reward value of this, you as an introvert, try a little social connection.
我认为我们对内向者和外向者的看法也是错误的，因为我们认为“我生来就是这样，永远不会改变”。确实，人们对这些东西有倾向，但数据表明，如果你可以更新你对此的奖励值，作为一个内向的人，尝试一点社交联系。
Don't go to the hugest party ever or jump into improv comedy.
不要参加有史以来最盛大的聚会或跳入即兴喜剧。
Just try call a friend that you haven't talked to in a while, right?
试着给你已经有一段时间没有联系的朋友打电话吧？
Notice how that felt like, "Oh, it was a prediction error." Right?
请注意那种感觉，“哦，这是一个预测错误。”正确的？
"It actually felt better than I expected." Then you might update your prediction.
“实际上感觉比我预想的要好。”然后你可能会更新你的预测。
And so you can kind of update your introversion in part by trying things out and noticing the reward value you get.
因此，你可以通过尝试一些事情并注意你所获得的奖励价值来部分地更新你的内向性格。
I think the thing that is different for introverts is you definitely need your alone time, right?
我认为对于内向的人来说，不同的是你肯定需要独处的时间，对吧？
So you want to balance any social connection you get with a little bit of time by yourself.
所以你想用一点自己的时间来平衡你所获得的任何社交关系。
But the research really shows that if you're predicting right now, like, "I just don't like this social connection," you might actually like it more than your prediction is suggesting.
但研究确实表明，如果你现在就预测，比如“我只是不喜欢这种社交联系”，你实际上可能比你的预测所暗示的更喜欢它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't want to micro-dissect social interactions to the point of becoming artificial, but I'm fairly introverted.
我不想对社交互动进行微观剖析，以至于变得人为，但我相当内向。
I love New York City, and I love London.
我爱纽约，也爱伦敦。
I love busy cities.
我喜欢繁忙的城市。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I don't mind being surrounded by people, but one byproduct of being surrounded by people in a big city is you're not interacting with everybody.
所以我不介意被人包围，但在大城市被人包围的一个副产品是你无法与每个人互动。
You're seeing lots of faces.
你会看到很多面孔。
So is it the case that introverts are really uncomfortable in big social interactions?
那么内向的人在大型社交互动中真的不舒服吗？
Or to me, the most mentally demanding social interaction would be one where I go to a party where I know there's going to be like 20 people.
或者对我来说，对精神要求最高的社交互动是参加一个我知道会有 20 个人左右的聚会。
Everyone's going to have to go around the room and introduce themselves.
每个人都必须在房间里走一圈并进行自我介绍。
Goodness.
善良。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Clearly, I don't have a problem with public speaking, but that to me, just spikes my cortisol immediately.
显然，我对公开演讲没有任何问题，但对我来说，这只会立即使我的皮质醇飙升。
And then there's sort of an expectation of real connection.
然后还有一种对真正联系的期望。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The expectation of real connection oftentimes undermines real connection.
对真正联系的期望常常会破坏真正的联系。
Sometimes it serves it.
有时它也能发挥作用。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But is it the case that introverts want to avoid people, or they want to avoid the requirement to really engage in a deep way?
但内向的人到底是想避开人，还是想逃避真正深入参与的要求呢？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I like engaging in a deep way one-to-one or maybe with two or three people, maybe a few more, but I don't know that it's the number of people-
我喜欢深入地进行一对一的交流，或者可能是两三个人，也许更多，但我不知道是人数的问题——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that becomes overwhelming or daunting or the punishing feature.
这变得压倒性的、令人生畏的或惩罚性的特征。
It's more the sort of requirement to be pulled out of oneself.
这更像是一种从自我中抽离出来的要求。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I think it might be all of the above.
我想可能就是以上这些。
I think what we know about introverts is that they often self-report being better in these sort of one-on-one kind of things.
我认为我们对内向者的了解是，他们经常自我报告在这类一对一的事情上做得更好。
So as an introvert, it's like you're going to have a coffee date with your friend.
所以作为一个内向的人，就像你要和你的朋友去喝咖啡一样。
That often doesn't cause as much social anxiety as like-
这通常不会引起像这样那样的社交焦虑——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, that's cool
不，那很酷
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
the dinner party with a bunch of people, right?
一群人的晚宴，对吗？
And so that's the claim.
这就是主张。
It's not like, well, jump into the dinner party with a bunch of people or join an improv comedy group or talk to everyone on the street.
这不像是和一群人一起参加晚宴或加入即兴喜剧团体或与街上的每个人交谈。
It's like just a one-on-one little mini conversation can be great.
就好像一对一的小型对话就可以很棒。
Or not necessarily great, but much better than you expect, and will kind of have this happiness benefit that kind of sustains you over time.
或者不一定很好，但比你预期的要好得多，并且会带来这种幸福感，随着时间的推移，这种幸福感会持续下去。
Nick Epley, who does all this work, talks about your happiness.
尼克·艾普利（Nick Epley）负责所有这些工作，他谈论了你的幸福。
The best metaphor for happiness is that it's kind of like a leaky tire.
幸福的最好比喻是它有点像漏气的轮胎。
Like it sort of goes out a little bit, and each one of these little conversations, whether it's chatting with the barista, calling a friend, giving someone a compliment, whatever, kind of fills up the tire, and then it kind of goes down.
就像它有点消失了，每一个小对话，无论是与咖啡师聊天，打电话给朋友，给某人赞美，无论什么，都充满了轮胎，然后就下降了。
So you can sort of use these little mini microdoses of social connection to boost your happiness tire.
所以你可以利用这些微量的社交联系来提高你的幸福感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and thank one of our sponsors, Function.
我想稍微休息一下，并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
I recently became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我最近成为了 Function 成员。
While I've long been a fan of blood testing, I really wanted to find a more in-depth program for analyzing blood, urine, and saliva to get a full picture of my heart health, my hormone status, my immune system regulation, my metabolic function, my vitamin and mineral status, and other critical areas of my overall health and vitality.
虽然我长期以来一直热衷于血液检测，但我真的很想找到一个更深入的程序来分析血液、尿液和唾液，以全面了解我的心脏健康状况、我的激素状态、我的免疫系统调节、我的代谢功能、我的维生素和矿物质状态以及我整体健康和活力的其他关键领域。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors on your results.
Function 不仅提供对身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标志物的测试，还分析这些结果并提供顶级医生对结果的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had too high levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量过高。
This was totally surprising to me.
这让我完全惊讶。
I had no idea prior to taking the test.
参加考试之前我不知道。
Function not only helped me detect this, but offered medical doctor-informed insights on how to best reduce those mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption because I had been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification and worked to reduce my mercury levels.
功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，还为我提供了如何最好地降低汞含量的医生知情见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼消费，因为我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力吃更多绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒，并有助于降低我的汞含量。
Comprehensive lab testing like this is so important for health, and while I've been doing it for years, I've always found it to be overly complicated and expensive.
像这样的综合实验室测试对健康非常重要，虽然我已经这样做了很多年，但我总是发现它过于复杂和昂贵。
I've been so impressed by Function, both at the level of ease of use, that is getting the test done, as well as how comprehensive and how actionable the tests are, that I recently joined their advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
Function 给我留下了深刻的印象，无论是在易用性方面，还是在完成测试方面，以及测试的全面性和可操作性方面，我最近加入了他们的顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
If you'd like to try Function, go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Function，请访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman Lab listeners.
Function 目前有超过 250,000 人的等待名单，但他们正在为 Huberman Lab 听众提供早期访问机会。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
Today's episode is also brought to us by LMNT.
今天的节目也是LMNT给我们带来的。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need but nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，但没有您不需要的。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的比例都正确，但不含糖。
Proper hydration is critical for optimal brain and body function.
适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体的最佳功能至关重要。
Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish cognitive and physical performance.
即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低认知和身体表现。
It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.
获得充足的电解质也很重要。
The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are vital for the functioning of all the cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.
电解质（钠、镁和钾）对于体内所有细胞（尤其是神经元或神经细胞）的功能至关重要。
Drinking LMNT dissolved in water makes it extremely easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.
饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT 可以非常轻松地确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。
To make sure that I'm getting proper amounts of hydration and electrolytes, I dissolve one packet of LMNT in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I wake up in the morning, and I drink that basically first thing in the morning.
为了确保我获得适量的水合作用和电解质，当我早上醒来时，我将一包 LMNT 溶解在大约 16 至 32 盎司的水中，并且我基本上早上第一件事就是喝它。
I also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing.
在进行任何体育锻炼时，我也会饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT。
Especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot, and therefore losing a lot of water and electrolytes.
尤其是在炎热的日子里，我会出很多汗，因此会失去大量的水和电解质。
They have a bunch of different great-tasting flavors of LMNT.
他们有多种不同口味的 LMNT。
They have watermelon, citrus, et cetera.
他们有西瓜、柑橘等。
Frankly, I love them all.
坦白说，我爱他们所有人。
And now that we're in the winter months in the Northern Hemisphere, LMNT has their Chocolate Medley flavors back in stock.
现在正值北半球的冬季，LMNT 的巧克力混合口味又重新有货了。
I really like the chocolate flavors, especially the chocolate mint when it's heated up.
我真的很喜欢巧克力的味道，尤其是加热后的巧克力薄荷味。
So you put it in hot water, and that's a great way to replenish electrolytes and hydrate, especially when it's cold and dry outside, when hydration is especially critical.
所以你把它放入热水中，这是补充电解质和水分的好方法，尤其是当外面又冷又干的时候，此时水分补充尤为重要。
If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with the purchase of any LMNT drink mix.
如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman，购买任何 LMNT 混合饮料即可领取免费 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。
So you're talking about engaging in social connection in real time and perhaps even in real life.
所以你谈论的是实时参与社交联系，甚至可能是在现实生活中。
Yes, in real life as well, with some effort to engage in it, which might just be built into modern living now, as one of the primary drivers for behavioral approaches to improve what we're calling happiness.
是的，在现实生活中也是如此，只要付出一些努力就可以参与其中，这可能会融入现在的现代生活中，作为改善我们所谓的幸福的行为方法的主要驱动力之一。
So could we say, and I know we don't want to set up strict protocols around this, make the effort to schedule in real time over the phone or Zoom or in real-life interaction with somebody maybe once a week?
那么我们是否可以说，我知道我们不想为此制定严格的协议，而是努力通过电话或 Zoom 或与某人在现实生活中的互动（也许每周一次）进行实时安排？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Minimum?
最低限度？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
I think more than you're doing now.
我想的比你现在做的还要多。
If you're not feeling so happy, add some in.
如果你感觉不那么快乐，就添加一些。
And, again, as you mentioned before, these are all kind of trade-offs, right?
而且，正如您之前提到的，这些都是一种权衡，对吗？
You don't want to add so much in that now you're not sleeping or exercising or all that other stuff.
你不想添加太多，因为你现在没有睡觉、没有锻炼或所有其他东西。
But one more interaction than you're getting now, and check how it feels over time.
但比现在多了一次互动，并检查随着时间的推移感觉如何。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Given how busy people are, and given that we've established that some effort that's required to engage socially is going to be beneficial toward the-
考虑到人们有多忙碌，并且考虑到我们已经确定参与社交所需的一些努力将有益于——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the reward and all this, and we're not trying to hack the dopamine system here, folks.
奖励和所有这一切，我们并不是想破解这里的多巴胺系统，伙计们。
We're just trying to figure out what is going to be rewarding, given that everyone has constraints on their time, and everyone seems to have a device in their pocket that allows them to get the illusion of nourishment that leads to either same levels or less happiness overall.
我们只是想弄清楚什么是有回报的，因为每个人的时间都受到限制，而且每个人的口袋里似乎都有一个设备，可以让他们获得营养的幻觉，从而导致整体幸福水平相同或较低。
What's going to be most effective?
什么会是最有效的？
And it seems to me, I was thinking about this during one of your answers.
在我看来，我在你的一个回答中就想到了这一点。
I was paying attention, but I was thinking about this, that my memory of prior social interactions as really great is a useful tool.
我在注意，但我在想，我对之前社交互动的记忆非常好，这是一个有用的工具。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So for instance, one of my best memories of time with my girlfriend was driving back from her grandmother's house with the dog in the car, and we had no phone reception, so we couldn't be interrupted by our devices.
举例来说，我和女朋友一起度过的最美好的回忆之一就是从她祖母家开车回来，车里带着狗，我们没有电话信号，所以我们不能被我们的设备打扰。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
She actually had some work to do, so she was doing some work on her computer at one point.
她实际上有一些工作要做，所以她一度在计算机上做一些工作。
She may have taken a nap at one point, and the dog kept jumping back and forth between our laps.
她可能曾经小睡过一次，而那只狗一直在我们的腿之间来回跳动。
And that to me was like one of the best days ever.
对我来说，那是有史以来最好的日子之一。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just ever.
就曾经。
It was just an awesome day.
这真是美好的一天。
That memory occurred to me now, and I think could serve me well in thinking, okay, so going on a road trip with somebody.
现在我想起了这段记忆，我认为可以很好地帮助我思考，好吧，和某人一起去公路旅行。
But it was the lack of structure around it.
但这是缺乏围绕它的结构。
It was just imposed on us.
它只是强加给我们的。
We had a drive to complete.
我们还有一个任务要完成。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There was a dog in the car.
车里有一只狗。
There was some work to do.
还有一些工作要做。
There was no phone reception.
没有电话信号。
And we've had many great interactions, but that would be the one that I'd highlight as like, that was an awesome interaction.
我们进行了很多很棒的互动，但我要强调的是，这是一次很棒的互动。
For whatever reason.
无论出于何种原因。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so can one use memories of great social interaction as kind of a compass for how to construct these social plans?
那么，人们可以利用伟大的社交互动的记忆作为如何构建这些社交计划的指南针吗？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I think it can be a little bit mystifying to people.
因为我认为这对人们来说可能有点神秘。
Like, "Oh, how do I get this thing called happiness?"
就像，“哦，我怎样才能得到幸福这个东西？”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"By meeting up with a friend.
“通过与朋友见面。
We enjoy hiking," or something like that, but maybe that's not accessible, and I don't want people to underthink or overthink it.
我们喜欢徒步旅行，”或者类似的事情，但也许这是无法实现的，我不希望人们低估或过度思考它。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But to me, it seems like, okay, road trips, everyday things.
但对我来说，这似乎是，好吧，公路旅行，日常事务。
We needed to go up there.
我们需要去那里。
There was some things to tend to.
有一些事情需要处理。
So tending to life things.
所以关心生活的事情。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To life requirements together.
共同生活要求。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, if you want to ask yourself a question that can highlight good memories, I recommend the one that the journalist Catherine Price uses a lot.
是的，如果你想问自己一个能够凸显美好回忆的问题，我推荐记者凯瑟琳·普莱斯经常使用的那个问题。
She does a lot of studies on fun.
她做了很多关于乐趣的研究。
Ask yourself the question, what were three times that you just had the most fun?
问自己一个问题，您刚刚玩得最开心的三次是哪三次？
The last three times you would describe as, "Oh, my God, that was the most fun." Right?
最后三次你会描述为，“哦，天哪，那是最有趣的。”正确的？
And this is a helpful question because usually the answer, my guess is, at least two out of three, probably all three, will have someone else in it.
这是一个有用的问题，因为我猜测，通常答案是，至少三分之二，可能全部三个，都会有其他人在其中。
You'll have another person involved.
你会有另一个人参与其中。
Or a dog.
或者是一只狗。
Sometimes some other agentive being.
有时是其他一些主动存在。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Oh, no, I completely agree.
哦，不，我完全同意。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
It wasn't you by yourself.
不是你一个人干的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
It probably didn't involve a screen, right?
它可能不涉及屏幕，对吧？
And so that's kind of like-
所以这有点像——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Definitely not
绝对不是
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
and that actually gets back to your road trip, talking about, I think the social part was really important, but it seems like that road trip also tapped into a sort of thought pattern that we know is really good for happiness, which is presence, right?
这实际上回到了你的公路旅行，谈论，我认为社交部分非常重要，但似乎那次公路旅行也利用了一种我们知道对幸福确实有益的思维模式，那就是存在，对吧？
Just being kind of mindful.
只是有点用心。
You're paying attention to the dog flopping on you.
你正在注意狗扑向你的情况。
You're seeing the scenery, right?
你正在看风景，对吗？
You're not in a rush to do something, so your mind could kind of be on that drive and how it felt.
你并不急于做某事，所以你的注意力可能会集中在那种动力和感觉上。
And we know so much about how these moments of mindfulness, really paying attention to your sensory experience, how much that matters for happiness.
我们非常了解这些正念时刻如何真正关注您的感官体验，这对幸福有多重要。
And one of the biggest hacks you can use to get more presence is to do exactly what you accidentally did driving through these parts of the world where you don't get phone reception, which is to get rid of our phones.
为了获得更多存在感，你可以使用的最大技巧之一就是像你开车穿过世界上这些没有电话信号的地方时无意中所做的那样，那就是扔掉我们的手机。
Our phones are just the biggest attention stealers ever.
我们的手机是有史以来最大的注意力吸引者。
And it makes a lot of sense because what grabs our attention?
这很有意义，因为什么吸引了我们的注意力？
Things that are really interesting and provide a little glass of quick dopamine hits, right?
那些真正有趣并能快速产生多巴胺的东西，对吧？
Or just kind of scream at us with information and announcements and so on.
或者只是用信息和公告等向我们尖叫。
This is what our phones do really well.
这就是我们的手机做得很好的地方。
And our brains aren't stupid.
我们的大脑并不愚蠢。
Our brains know that on the other side of our phone is such rewarding content.
我们的大脑知道手机的另一端有如此有价值的内容。
And it becomes really distracting.
这真的让人分心。
My colleague Liz Dunn has this analogy she uses of imagine instead of this kind of conversation we're having right here, maybe I'll do with my husband at a dinner party where I'm sitting with my husband at dinner, and we're chatting, and I have my phone out.
我的同事莉兹·邓恩（Liz Dunn）用想象来比喻，而不是我们现在在这里进行的这种对话，也许我会和我丈夫在一次晚宴上做，我和我丈夫坐在一起吃晚饭，我们聊天，我拿出手机。
And my husband's a philosopher.
我丈夫是一位哲学家。
He's a very smart guy.
他是一个非常聪明的人。
We have great conversations.
我们的谈话很愉快。
But I know on the other end of that phone is like really interesting stuff.
但我知道电话的另一端是非常有趣的东西。
And Liz said, "Imagine the comparison is instead of having your phone there, I had this big wheelbarrow next to me and my husband at our dinner table.
莉兹说：“想象一下，比较一下，我和我丈夫在餐桌上，旁边放着一辆大手推车，而不是你的手机。
And in the wheelbarrow is photo albums of every photo I've taken since 2016, physical printouts of my emails, and news articles, and stuff that I could get, like videotapes of cat videos and porn and everything, just like piled up really high in this wheelbarrow.
手推车里有我自 2016 年以来拍摄的每张照片的相册、电子邮件的实体打印件、新闻文章，以及我能得到的东西，比如猫视频和色情录像带以及所有东西，就像在手推车里堆得很高一样。
If we were trying to have a conversation, that wheelbarrow was there, I'd be like, 'Oh, I just want to take a quick look at the photo or do something.' It'd be so distracting.
如果我们想交谈，那辆独轮车就在那里，我会说，“哦，我只是想快速浏览一下照片或做点什么。”那就太让人分心了。
It'd be so interesting." Your brain's not stupid.
那就太有趣了。”你的大脑并不傻。
Your brain knows even though your phone is much tinier than that wheelbarrow, that all that interesting dopamine-rich exciting stuff is on it, and it makes it hard to pay attention to my husband.
你的大脑知道，尽管你的手机比那辆独轮车小得多，但所有有趣的、富含多巴胺的令人兴奋的东西都在上面，这让你很难去注意我的丈夫。
Again, an interesting philosopher, we have great conversations.
再说一次，一位有趣的哲学家，我们进行了很棒的对话。
And so there's lots of evidence showing that even the act of having your phone out is subtly stealing your attention from other people, from the tasks that you're doing.
因此，有大量证据表明，即使是拿出手机的行为也会巧妙地转移您对其他人以及您正在执行的任务的注意力。
One of the biggest pieces of advice I give my college students is to study without your phone near you, because Princeton studies have looked at this, where you have somebody do, say, a math test or a studying test with your phone there versus the phone in the other room, and you see double-digit increases in performance just to have your phone away.
我给大学生的最重要的建议之一就是学习时不要把手机放在身边，因为普林斯顿大学的研究已经研究过这一点，比如说，有人用你的手机做数学测试或学习测试，而不是把手机放在另一个房间，你会发现，只要把手机拿开，你的成绩就会有两位数的提高。
And you might ask, "Well, why would that be?" It's like, well, part of your frontal lobe's like, "No, no, no, don't look at the phone.
你可能会问：“那么，为什么会这样呢？”就像，你额叶的一部分会说，“不，不，不，不要看手机。
Don't look at the phone.
别看手机。
Don't look at that big wheelbarrow of delicious, interesting stuff.
别看那辆大手推车，里面装满了美味、有趣的东西。
Stay on task." And that's this kind of constant moment of multitasking where we're kind of yanking our brain back onto task.
继续执行任务。”这就是这种多任务处理的持续时刻，我们将大脑拉回到任务上。
And so a big hack if you want to be more present is to find ways to do activities without your phone.
因此，如果你想更加活跃，一个重要的技巧就是找到无需手机即可进行活动的方法。
I guess if we go back to that fun question, if I said those three times you were having the most fun, you weren't in the middle of it pulling out your phone to look at your Instagram feed.
我想如果我们回到那个有趣的问题，如果我说那三遍你玩得很开心，那么你就不会拿出手机查看你的 Instagram 动态。
You were just there.
你就在那里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And what you just described was a dramatic performance enhancement on mathematics-
你刚才描述的是数学成绩的显着提高——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
by not having this opportunity for distraction in the room, which is incredible.
没有机会在房间里分散注意力，这真是令人难以置信。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
When you dive deep into the effects of having your phone around you, they're striking, especially when getting back to social connection, especially social connection.
当你深入研究手机在身边所带来的影响时，你会发现它们是惊人的，尤其是当回到社交联系时，尤其是社交联系。
Liz Dunn has this paper where she puts two people in a room, just kind of a waiting room together, and you either have your phone or you don't.
莉兹·邓恩（Liz Dunn）有一篇论文，她把两个人放在一个房间里，就像一个候诊室一样，你要么有手机，要么没有。
You're not allowed to look at it, it's just present.
你不被允许看它，它只是存在。
And she finds that there's 30% less smiling at the other people in the waiting room when your phones are present.
她发现，当你拿着手机时，候诊室里对其他人微笑的次数会减少 30%。
30% less.
减少 30%。
I actually think of this when I think of the loneliness crisis.
当我想到孤独危机时，我实际上想到了这一点。
I was a head of college on campus, which as a faculty member at Yale meant that I lived on campus with students, and you'd walk through the courtyard, and everybody's walking through the courtyard, but they're not looking at you, they're looking down at their phone, right?
我是校园里的大学校长，作为耶鲁大学的教员，这意味着我和学生住在校园里，你穿过庭院，每个人都穿过庭院，但他们没有看着你，而是低头看手机，对吗？
There's these subtle interactions that we're missing because our phone is stealing us.
我们错过了这些微妙的互动，因为我们的手机正在偷走我们。
That's the social case, but I think there's a real performance case, too.
这是社会案例，但我认为也有真实的绩效案例。
If you want to pay attention and learn something, if part of your brain is inhibiting that urge to look at all the interesting stuff on your phone, which we don't notice, then that's going to be affecting your performance.
如果你想集中注意力并学习一些东西，如果你的大脑的一部分抑制了查看手机上所有有趣内容的冲动，而我们没有注意到这一点，那么这将会影响你的表现。
It has good benefits, too.
它也有很好的好处。
There's this lovely finding that people are buying less gum and less candy in checkout aisles now.
有一个可爱的发现，现在人们在收银台购买的口香糖和糖果减少了。
The national worldwide sale of gum has gone down, and it's gone down on the same slope as the iPhones have gone up.
全球范围内口香糖的销量下降了，而且下降的幅度与 iPhone 的销量上升的幅度相同。
So as the number of iPhones in pockets goes up, sales of gum in checkout lines has gone down, and you can see why that is.
因此，随着口袋里 iPhone 数量的增加，收银台中口香糖的销量下降了，你可以明白其中的原因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're not looking around as much.
他们没有那么多地环顾四周。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
You're not looking like, "Ooh, that Doublemint looks really good." You're staring at your phone and looking at your Instagram feed.
你看起来不会像“哦，那个绿薄荷看起来真不错。”您盯着手机并查看 Instagram 动态。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Soon the ads are going to pop up on- They'll know you're in the aisle because they can know your proximity-
很快广告就会弹出-他们会知道你在过道上，因为他们可以知道你的距离-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
That's true
确实如此
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to a lot of devices.
到很多设备。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
That's true, yeah.
确实如此，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have a friend who's a very accomplished songwriter and musician, and someone does his Instagram and other social media for him.
我有一个朋友，他是一位非常有成就的词曲作者和音乐家，有人为他制作 Instagram 和其他社交媒体。
He's not on there.
他不在场。
And we met for dinner the other day with a couple other people, and I got there, and I started telling him about something I had seen online, and he said...
有一天我们和另外几个人一起吃晚饭，我到了那里，我开始告诉他我在网上看到的一些事情，他说……
I usually do his voice, but I won't do his voice because I don't want to give it away.
我通常会做他的声音，但我不会做他的声音，因为我不想泄露出去。
People might know who he is.
人们可能知道他是谁。
But he said, "I don't want to talk about what's on Instagram.
但他说：“我不想谈论 Instagram 上的内容。
In fact, I don't want to talk about what's on the Internet.
其实我不想说网上的事情。
Let's just have dinner." And at first, I was like, "Dude." And I thought, "Great." He's exactly right.
我们就吃晚饭吧。”起初，我的反应是，“伙计。”我想：“太棒了。”他是完全正确的。
It's not just having the phone there, it's not just being on the device.
这不仅仅是手机的存在，也不仅仅是设备上的存在。
It's also that you're talking about things that you saw in the world, some of which are very interesting and important at times.
而且你正在谈论你在世界上看到的事情，其中一些有时非常有趣且重要。
But what he was saying was, "I don't want to talk about things that you experienced about somebody else's experience." That wasn't really an experience that you had today.
但他想说的是，“我不想谈论你经历过的关于别人经历的事情。”那并不是你今天所经历的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's an experience of someone else's experience that you had today.
这是你今天所经历的别人的经历。
It wasn't about a news article or something.
这与新闻文章或其他什么无关。
So we're playing the telephone bucket brigade game of social connection m-many, many degrees away from the actual interactions that we were kind of hardwired to experience ourselves.
因此，我们正在玩社交联系的电话桶大队游戏——与我们与生俱来体验的实际互动有很多很多程度的距离。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, and those are the ones that really influence our happiness in the world.
是的，这些才是真正影响我们在世界上幸福的因素。
One of the great ways to increase your presence in addition to kind of getting rid of your phone is to just go back to your senses.
除了摆脱手机之外，增加你的存在感的好方法之一就是回归你的感官。
What are you looking at right now?
你现在在看什么？
What do you see right now?
你现在看到了什么？
I'm in this room, there's really nice kind of cool black lighting, and I'm sitting there.
我在这个房间里，有非常漂亮的酷黑色灯光，我就坐在那里。
I'm hearing your voice.
我听到你的声音了
There's a subtle hum in the room that I hope the podcast is not picking up that I hear in the audio.
房间里有一种微妙的嗡嗡声，我希望播客没有听到我在音频中听到的声音。
It's a little cool.
有点酷。
That grounding, I can watch my breath completely change around.
那一刻，我可以看到我的呼吸完全改变。
It's like a quick way to just kind of be embodied, and I think so often we're just not doing that as much in our discourse, but definitely even when we're by ourselves.
这就像一种快速体现的方式，我认为我们经常在谈话中没有这样做，但即使我们独自一人时也是如此。
We just wind up distracting ourselves from the very sensory experience that literally is the experience that we have of the world.
我们最终只是分散了自己对感官体验的注意力，而感官体验实际上就是我们对世界的体验。
We're just not noticing it as much.
我们只是没有注意到这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, I will say that a memory of a really terrific time I had alone was- Around this time of year, actually, around the holidays, typically I would be in my office organizing papers-
现在，我要说的是，我独自度过的一段非常美好的时光是——每年的这个时候，实际上，假期前后，我通常会在办公室整理文件——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, we academics.
是的，我们学者。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
maybe dealing with some end-of-year stuff, as for academics.
也许要处理一些年终的事情，比如学术方面的事情。
My life's a lot different now with the podcast, even though I still teach at Stanford.
尽管我仍在斯坦福大学任教，但有了播客，我的生活有了很大的不同。
But end of year is a time when you get your office organized.
但年底是你整理办公室的时候。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Every academic knows this.
每个学者都知道这一点。
And over the holidays, I tended to have a lot of time in my office alone.
假期期间，我往往有很多时间独自待在办公室。
It was a great time to come in.
这是进来的好时机。
Parking was everywhere.
到处都有停车位。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You go in, and I used to listen to TED Talks, or I would listen to podcasts.
你进去，我过去常听 TED 演讲，或者听播客。
And these days, I'm trying to do more physical things, not just exercise.
这些天，我尝试做更多的身体活动，而不仅仅是锻炼。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm working on some lighting stuff in my house.
我正在家里做一些照明工作。
And I like to listen to podcasts or books.
我喜欢听播客或书籍。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sometimes music, but podcasts or books while I do that.
有时是音乐，但我这样做的时候是播客或书籍。
And I do feel that when we're alone, sometimes it's nice to have other voices in the room that are not just the voices in our head.
我确实觉得，当我们独处时，有时房间里有其他声音，而不仅仅是我们头脑中的声音，这很好。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it could be music, podcasts, books, movies, et cetera, that people seem to find that soothing.
人们似乎觉得舒缓的可能是音乐、播客、书籍、电影等等。
I certainly do.
我当然知道。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that doesn't feel like it's diminishing from my experience of being present.
从我在场的经历来看，这种感觉并没有减少。
In fact, it allows me to just really tend to what I'm doing mechanically.
事实上，它让我能够真正机械地专注于我正在做的事情。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I have some plans to do some more craft drawing type projects in the new year, and I look forward to being able to hear those conversations but not have to participate in them.
我计划在新的一年里做一些更多的工艺图类型的项目，我期待能够听到这些对话，但不必参与其中。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So would you consider that healthy, or am I diminishing my experience and of the depth of my crafts?
那么你认为这健康吗？还是我会减少我的经验和我的技艺的深度？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I think there's some nuance there, right?
嗯，我认为这里面有一些细微差别，对吧？
You're talking about your craft in a very embodied way.
你正在以一种非常具体的方式谈论你的手艺。
Even as you're talking to me, you're describing how your hands are moving in these motor ways as you're doing it.
即使在你跟我说话的时候，你也在描述你的手在做这件事时是如何以这些运动方式移动的。
You're talking about what it felt like.
你说的是那种感觉。
It felt like your senses were activated for the physical stuff you were doing.
感觉就像你的感官被你正在做的事情所激活。
But you also mentioned that your mind was wandering, and maybe you were ruminating and stuff like that.
但你也提到你的思绪在走神，也许你在沉思之类的。
So it sounds like what you did was have a really nice emotion regulation strategy of you could fill your head with something so that you can work on the physical stuff, but it didn't impede your experience of the physical stuff.
所以听起来你所做的是有一个非常好的情绪调节策略，你可以用一些东西填充你的大脑，这样你就可以处理身体上的东西，但这并没有妨碍你对身体上的东西的体验。
The way you described it shows that you were there, you were present when you were doing it.
你描述的方式表明你在那里，当你做这件事的时候你就在场。
I think the problem is when it impedes our presence doing it, and I think it depends on the activity we're doing, right?
我认为问题在于它阻碍了我们的存在，而且我认为这取决于我们正在进行的活动，对吧？
Take driving.
以驾驶为例。
Probably some of you who are listening right now are sitting in your car as you're driving, doing this other interesting motoric activity.
也许你们中的一些人正在开车时坐在车里，做其他有趣的运动活动。
And that's one where it's like you're not missing out on that much on the drive by listening to us.
听我们的讲述，您就不会在旅途中错过太多东西。
It's probably a positive kind of experience that you're having, learning something and so on.
这可能是你正在经历的一种积极的经历，学习一些东西等等。
But you wouldn't want to listen to podcasts in some physical situations, right?
但您不会想在某些实际情况下收听播客，对吧？
If you were ballroom dancing, for example, you wouldn't want to necessarily be listening to a podcast then, right?
例如，如果您在跳交谊舞，那么您不一定想听播客，对吧？
If you're really experiencing art and sort of engaging with art in an art gallery, you wouldn't want to also be listening to a podcast at the same time.
如果您真的在艺术画廊中体验艺术并参与艺术，您就不会想同时收听播客。
And so I think the thing to think is, are you listening to this in a way that you're missing something in the real world that your presence of it would matter, make you feel really good?
所以我认为要思考的事情是，你是否在某种程度上错过了现实世界中的一些东西，而你的存在很重要，让你感觉真的很好？
Or are you just killing some other free time and maybe using this as a nice emotion regulation strategy to stop what would otherwise be a really ruminative drive?
或者你只是在消磨一些其他的空闲时间，也许用它作为一种很好的情绪调节策略来阻止那些本来会是真正的沉思的冲动？
Now you get to listen to me and Andrew, and that's probably better.
现在你可以听我和安德鲁的讲话，这可能会更好。
But there's nuance there.
但其中存在细微差别。
I think our tendency is to move away from the rumination, is to run away from it, and I think if you find yourself avoiding your thought patterns altogether, that probably might be the pendulum swinging a little too far in the other direction.
我认为我们的倾向是远离沉思，就是逃避它，我认为如果你发现自己完全回避你的思维模式，那可能是钟摆朝另一个方向摆动得太远了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Noted.
注意到了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Noted.
注意到了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we've got in real time and/or in real life.
所以我们是实时和/或现实生活中的。
Well, in real life is always in real time.
好吧，现实生活总是实时的。
But in real life and/or in real time social interaction, and if it requires some effort to plan or get to-
但在现实生活和/或实时社交互动中，如果需要一些努力来计划或实现-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
organize, all the better.
组织起来，一切都更好。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You stand to gain more from those interactions.
您将从这些互动中获得更多收益。
So that's really key.
所以这真的很关键。
Presence, obviously.
显然，存在。
Try and get the phone out of the room, at least off and put away, but ideally out of the-
尝试将手机带出房间，至少将其关闭并收起来，但最好是远离-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Out of sight.
看不见了。
Better out of sight
最好远离视线
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
out of sight.
看不见。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Out of sight.
看不见了。
Love that.
喜欢那个。
And shared experience, presumably.
大概还分享了经验。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Actually maybe doing something, but it could even just be talking.
实际上可能是在做某事，但也可能只是说说而已。
I guess it depends on what people enjoy doing, right?
我想这取决于人们喜欢做什么，对吧？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So these are powerful levers for shifting one level of happiness up using behavior.
因此，这些都是利用行为提升幸福感的强大杠杆。
What about leading with thought patterns or feelings?
用思维模式或感受来领导怎么样？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Seems like it's a more challenging but certainly tractable entry point.
看起来这是一个更具挑战性但肯定易于处理的切入点。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And I think it's important here to remember what are our natural evolutionary patterns towards thought patterns, because some of them aren't necessarily built for our happiness.
我认为重要的是要记住我们的思维模式的自然进化模式是什么，因为其中一些不一定是为了我们的幸福而建立的。
To take what's a kind of common evolutionary thought pattern, which is a negativity bias, right?
拿一种常见的进化思维模式来说，这是一种消极偏见，对吗？
We're just built to notice all the scary stuff, all the bad stuff, all the potentially risky stuff.
我们生来就注意到所有可怕的事情、所有糟糕的事情、所有潜在风险的事情。
Our brains instantly go there, and that makes fabulous evolutionary sense.
我们的大脑会立即前往那里，这具有难以置信的进化意义。
If there's a possibility that there's a tiger that's going to jump out or some sort of risky thing, you want your brain to lock onto it.
如果有可能有一只老虎会跳出来或发生某种危险的事情，你希望你的大脑锁定它。
Not as evolutionary beneficial to notice all the blessings in life, just all the good things.
关注生活中所有的祝福，而不是关注所有美好的事物，并不像进化上那样有益。
It doesn't really give you that much of a survival benefit to notice, hey, there's the absence of a tiger.
注意到，嘿，没有老虎，这并没有真正给你带来太大的生存好处。
We don't really know.
我们真的不知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
There's no tigers around, right?
周围没有老虎吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In fact, it probably helps drive more motivation to go pursue resources.
事实上，它可能有助于激发更多的动力去追求资源。
You could imagine an adaptive feature to lacking satisfaction.
您可以想象一个缺乏满意度的自适应功能。
You could gain more resources-
你可以获得更多的资源——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Exactly
正是如此
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and at a time where resources were presumably shared more in these small village formats.
当时，这些小村庄形式的资源可能被更多地共享。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know.
我不知道。
Do monkey troops share resources?
猴子部队共享资源吗？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
It depends on the monkey.
这取决于猴子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Depends on the monkey.
取决于猴子。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But yeah.
但是是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just like humans.
就像人类一样。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But for humans.
但对于人类来说。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Depends on the humans.
取决于人类。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, true.
是的，没错。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Depends on the monkey.
取决于猴子。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
But I think you're making a really critical point, right?
但我认为你提出了一个非常关键的观点，对吗？
Which is if we're noticing the negative, if we're noticing the bad stuff, we tend to fix it.
也就是说，如果我们注意到消极的一面，如果我们注意到不好的一面，我们就会倾向于解决它。
But also, if we're craving, if we're wanting, if we're constantly in search of something, we get off our butts and go do stuff, right?
而且，如果我们渴望，如果我们想要，如果我们不断地寻找某些东西，我们就会摆脱困境并去做一些事情，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Steve Jobs, in his parting words, were, "Stay hungry, stay foolish."
史蒂夫·乔布斯在临别赠言中说：“保持饥饿，保持愚蠢。”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or maybe it was stay foolish, stay hungry.
或者也许是保持愚蠢，保持饥饿。
But stay hungry was definitely in there.
但保持饥饿绝对是其中的一部分。
And I realize he's not going to represent the epitome of what to strive for for everybody, but he's certainly held up as somebody who changed the world through the development of certain technologies.
我意识到他不会代表每个人努力奋斗的缩影，但他肯定被视为通过某些技术的发展改变了世界的人。
So we revere these people that are hungry for more.
因此，我们尊敬这些渴望更多的人。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
And it makes great evolutionary sense.
这具有很大的进化意义。
Doesn't make as good happiness sense.
没有那么好的幸福感。
What's one of the best ways to be happy?
获得快乐的最好方法之一是什么？
To just appreciate what you have, to notice and appreciate the blessings out there.
去欣赏你所拥有的，注意并感激外面的祝福。
But we've got to push against this natural negativity bias to do that.
但我们必须克服这种自然的消极偏见才能做到这一点。
So how do we do that?
那么我们该怎么做呢？
Well, it turns out that this is a spot where harnessing attention in the way we were just talking about can be really helpful.
事实证明，以我们刚才讨论的方式利用注意力确实很有帮助。
Just taking time to notice the blessings, notice kind of all the good stuff.
只要花时间去注意祝福，注意所有的好东西。
It's often talked about in terms of a gratitude practice.
人们经常谈论感恩实践。
Although gratitude sounds kind of cheesy.
虽然感恩听起来有点俗气。
I don't know.
我不知道。
My friend Catherine Price, who I mentioned earlier, she has this practice that she calls a delight practice, where you just notice delights in the world.
我的朋友凯瑟琳·普莱斯（Catherine Price），我之前提到过，她有一种她称之为快乐练习的做法，你只是注意到世界上的快乐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love the word delight.
我喜欢喜悦这个词。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
I walked into your studio, you had a picture of your bulldog, and I was like, "That's a delight.
我走进你的工作室，你有一张你的斗牛犬的照片，我当时想，“这真是太高兴了。
That's so cute." Just like made me feel-
真是太可爱了。”就像让我感觉——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for delighting in him.
谢谢你让他高兴。
I delight in him too, even though he's dead several years now.
我也很喜欢他，尽管他已经去世好几年了。
Delight is a wonderful word.
喜悦是一个美妙的词。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And we can train our brain to notice them.
我们可以训练我们的大脑来注意到它们。
You can literally have a practice where put in your notes app on your phone, like list of delights.
您实际上可以进行练习，将笔记应用程序放入手机上，例如乐趣列表。
Or even better, pick a friend, like I have with Catherine, where you can just text them delight.
或者更好的是，选择一个朋友，就像我和凯瑟琳一样，在那里你可以给他们发短信高兴。
At the end of this I'll text like, "Saw a really cute dog, delight." Or, "Heard this really funny song, delight." Then you get the social connection and the gratitude.
最后我会发短信说：“看到一只非常可爱的狗，很高兴。”或者，“听到这首非常有趣的歌曲，高兴。”然后你就会得到社会联系和感激之情。
But what that does is if you have this practice where you've got to write down the delights, your brain starts to automatically be on the lookout for them.
但这样做的作用是，如果你进行这种练习，你必须写下快乐，你的大脑就会开始自动寻找它们。
It becomes rewarding because you get to write this thing down.
它变得有价值，因为你可以把这件事写下来。
Now all of a sudden, it can be a practice that you're sort of shifting your negativity bias to notice more of the good things that are out there.
现在突然之间，你可能会转变自己的消极偏见，去注意到更多外面的美好事物。
And there's so much evidence suggesting that people who naturally notice the blessings in the world are happier.
有大量证据表明，自然地注意到世界上的祝福的人会更快乐。
If you do one of these kind of gratitude or delight practices, you wind up happier.
如果你进行其中一种感恩或快乐的练习，你最终会变得更快乐。
Sonja Lyubomirsky has this lovely study where if you scribble down three to five things you're grateful for, or three to five delights, in as little as two weeks you significantly improve your overall satisfaction with life.
索尼娅·柳博米尔斯基（Sonja Lyubomirsky）进行了一项有趣的研究，如果你记下三到五件你感激的事情，或者三到五件事，在短短两周内，你对生活的整体满意度就会显着提高。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
It's super free.
超级免费。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So much so that I, and because I accidentally interrupted.
以至于我，又因为我不小心打断了。
The comments always tell me I interrupt too much.
评论总是告诉我我打扰太多了。
It's out of interest, I promise.
我保证，这是出于兴趣。
If I could interrupt myself, I would.
如果我能打断自己的话，我会的。
And I probably do from time to time.
我可能有时会这样做。
Could you repeat what the, it's three to five things?
你能重复一遍吗？是三到五件事？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, three to five things you're grateful for.
是的，有三到五件事让你感激。
I'm not sure if the number really matters, but it's committing to kind of noticing the good things in life and really trying to take a moment to notice how they felt.
我不确定这个数字是否真的重要，但它致力于注意到生活中的美好事物，并真正尝试花点时间注意他们的感受。
So if I look at, I do delight practices sometimes, or gratitude practices, and it's things like my husband, these big things in life, but then sometimes it's like my morning coffee or like probably seeing your cute dog.
所以如果我看，我有时会做一些快乐的练习，或者感恩的练习，比如我的丈夫，生活中的这些大事，但有时就像我早上喝咖啡，或者可能看到你可爱的狗。
It's funny to see the picture.
看到图片很有趣。
For folks that don't know Andrew's studio, it's a picture of his dog on a microphone.
对于不了解安德鲁工作室的人来说，这是一张他的狗在麦克风上的照片。
It's just very funny.
这真是太有趣了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Giant.
巨人。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
It's a giant microphone.
这是一个巨大的麦克风。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Giant, high quality photograph.
巨大的高品质照片。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He was actually standing on the table that I do my solo podcast from.
他实际上站在我做个人播客的桌子上。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Aw.
噢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
With the microphone, and his tag just happened to rotate a few degrees toward the camera just at that moment, so you could see his name, Costello.
有了麦克风，他的标签恰好在那一刻朝摄像机旋转了几度，所以你可以看到他的名字，科斯特洛。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
And I invite listeners to pause right now and notice what's happening to their face as you hear Andrew say that.
我邀请听众现在停下来，注意当你听到安德鲁说这句话时，他们的脸上发生了什么。
Probably you're just smiling.
也许你只是在微笑。
You didn't even see this really cute photo, but you're also smiling.
你甚至没有看到这张非常可爱的照片，但你也在微笑。
That's the power of delights.
这就是快乐的力量。
Not just noticing them yourself, but potentially sharing them too.
不仅你自己注意到它们，而且也有可能分享它们。
And so this is another thought pattern practice that we can engage in, which is just train your brain to find these things.
这是我们可以进行的另一种思维模式练习，就是训练你的大脑去发现这些东西。
And what you'll find is that there's a limited ratio of the stuff we can focus our attention on, and if we start shifting towards the delights from the hassles and the yucky stuff in life, now we're just kind of filling our brain with stuff that gives us a little more positive emotion.
你会发现，我们可以集中注意力的事物的比例是有限的，如果我们开始从生活中的麻烦和令人讨厌的事物中转向快乐，那么现在我们只是在用能给我们带来更多积极情绪的事物填充我们的大脑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What I love about this conversation about gratitude is that I must say, I do like the word delight more than gratitude.
我喜欢这场关于感恩的谈话，因为我必须说，我确实更喜欢“喜悦”这个词，而不是“感恩”。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Gratitude sounds cheesy.
感恩听起来很俗气。
It sounds a little hippy dippy, I got to say.
我不得不说，这听起来有点嬉皮士。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I'm from Northern California, so I'm cool with hippy dippy, even though I'm not a hippy.
嗯，我来自北加州，所以我对嬉皮士很感兴趣，尽管我不是嬉皮士。
Punk rocker, not a hippy.
朋克摇滚，不是嬉皮士。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Your Berkeley roots are coming out.
你的伯克利根正在显现出来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
No, I'm from the other end of the bay, the peninsula.
不，我来自海湾的另一端，半岛。
I love the East Bay, but anyway, this is getting...
我喜欢东湾，但无论如何，这正在变得……
But the point is, it's not that the word feels soft.
但重点是，这个词的感觉并不柔和。
I need to think about this a little bit more.
我需要再考虑一下这个问题。
Maybe it's just that delight is such a powerful, unselfish word.
也许只是因为快乐是一个如此强大、无私的词。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's not taking anything from anybody.
它没有从任何人那里拿走任何东西。
It's not requiring a shift away from one sort of intrinsic self.
它不需要偏离一种内在的自我。
I feel like gratitude requires this, like, "Okay, I'm going to now be grateful."
我觉得感恩需要这样，比如，“好吧，我现在要表达感激之情。”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's kind of like pulling, if you're not already in a state of gratitude, I feel like there's more effort involved.
这有点像拉，如果你还没有处于感恩的状态，我觉得需要付出更多的努力。
And we've been saying effort that precedes reward is good, but with delight, it feels like it's just very much in concert with almost like who one is.
我们一直在说，先努力后获得回报是件好事，但令人高兴的是，这感觉就像是与一个人的本质非常一致。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I delight in Costello.
我很喜欢科斯特洛。
I don't expect everyone to delight in Costello.
我不希望每个人都喜欢科斯特洛。
People who did, I delighted in their delight.
那些这样做的人，我为他们的喜悦而感到高兴。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it was just amplifying all the delight.
所以这只是放大了所有的快乐。
But the thing that really strikes me about delight is that every example you gave, it's very rapid timescale.
但真正让我感到高兴的是，你给出的每个例子的时间尺度都非常快。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I will say I normally drink yerba mate during these things, which I delight in, but today I decided I haven't had coffee in a while.
我会说我通常在这些事情期间喝马黛茶，我很喜欢喝马黛茶，但今天我决定我有一段时间没有喝咖啡了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Took a little break from it for no particular reason.
没有什么特别的原因，稍微休息了一下。
And I had a single shot of espresso and I was thinking to myself, "This is really good."
我喝了一杯浓缩咖啡，心里想：“这真是太棒了。”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
This is delightful.
这真是令人愉快。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So this is a fast timescale.
所以这是一个很快的时间尺度。
Maybe it was the fact that I haven't had it in a little while.
也许是因为我已经有一段时间没有这样了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's just really fast.
而且速度真的很快。
No one suffers.
没有人受苦。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's all gain.
都是收获。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so it runs a little bit countercurrent to what we were talking about before, which is the requirement for effort to precede the reward.
因此，这与我们之前讨论的内容有点背道而驰，即需要付出努力才能获得回报。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Delight feels like a very smooth road-
喜悦感觉就像一条非常平坦的路——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to a reward that's all net positive.
以获得全部为净正值的奖励。
And as you said, these delights are available throughout the day, and it requires just noticing something inside and outside.
正如你所说，这些乐趣全天都可以享受到，只需要注意内在和外在的东西即可。
Whereas I feel like with gratitude, I love gratitude practices.
虽然我心存感激，但我喜欢感恩的做法。
The data are incredible.
数据令人难以置信。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It is anything but squishy.
它一点也不软。
It is like a real power tool for shifting one's state of mind.
它就像一个真正改变人心态的强大工具。
That's clear from the literature.
从文献中可以清楚地看出这一点。
But the gratitude thing, I feel like requires an almost a formalization.
但我觉得感恩这件事几乎需要正式化。
Like, "Okay, I'm going to be grateful now." Whereas delight, you're just kind of on the lookout for things that spark you-
就像，“好吧，我现在会很感激。”而快乐，你只是在寻找那些能激发你灵感的东西——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and make you reflexively smile.
并让你条件反射地微笑。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And I think it's-
我认为这是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the few things are better than that.
还有几件事比这更好。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And I think it's really sensory, in the way we were talking about before, right?
我认为这真的很感官，就像我们之前讨论的那样，对吧？
It gets you back into being present.
它让你重新回到当下。
Most of these delights are something you taste, or you experience, or you see that's funny.
大多数的快乐都是你尝到的、经历过的、或者看到的有趣的东西。
There's a really lovely book by the author Ross Gay called "The Book of Delights," and he used a delight practice where every day he not only had to find a delight, but write a short essay about it, because he's an author, and it's just hilarious.
作者罗斯·盖伊（Ross Gay）有一本非常可爱的书，名叫《快乐之书》，他使用了一种快乐练习，每天他不仅要找到快乐，还要写一篇关于它的短文，因为他是一名作家，而且这很搞笑。
It's one of my favorite books, and you just kind of go...
这是我最喜欢的书之一，你就去...
And it's really strange things.
这真的很奇怪。
It's like one is he noticed the flower as he notices lilacs, and he has this whole idea of one delight is purple flowers.
就好像他注意到这朵花就像他注意到紫丁香一样，他的整个想法是紫色的花是一种快乐。
Why are there so many purple flowers?
为什么有这么多紫色的花？
There's purple flowers everywhere.
到处都是紫色的花。
He also has a delight in music.
他还热爱音乐。
He really likes the '80s band El DeBarge.
他非常喜欢 80 年代的乐队 El DeBarge。
From the beat of the rhythm when I-
从节奏的跳动中，当我——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm not vaguely familiar with it
我对它不是很熟悉
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
Yeah, so it's like and he talks about his love of DeBarge, and you can kind of have this connection with other people's delights, and it's silly.
是的，就像他谈论他对 DeBarge 的热爱，你可以将其与其他人的快乐联系起来，这很愚蠢。
They're just silly things.
它们只是一些愚蠢的事情。
But the fact that we've noticed them, again, as the listener's probably experiencing right now, if you pay attention, a little bit of positive emotion, right?
但事实上，我们再次注意到了它们，就像听众现在可能正在经历的那样，如果你注意的话，会产生一点积极的情绪，对吧？
If you're driving around in your car feeling a little stressed out in traffic, you can kind of take a breath.
如果您在开车时感觉交通有点压力，您可以喘口气。
And so that's the power of the practice.
这就是练习的力量。
You're shifting your emotions because you're noticing these good things.
你正在改变你的情绪，因为你注意到了这些美好的事情。
You're noticing the good things, which is great, because you're sort of training your attention to get there, and you're sort of forming this habit to shift that negativity bias that's sort of built in, but isn't really making you as happy as you could be.
你注意到了好的事情，这很好，因为你正在训练你的注意力去实现这一点，你正在形成这种习惯来改变那种内在的消极偏见，但并没有真正让你尽可能快乐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and thank one of our sponsors, David.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一大卫。
David makes a protein bar unlike any other.
大卫制作的蛋白质棒与众不同。
It has 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar.
它含有 28 克蛋白质，仅 150 卡路里，零克糖。
That's right, 28 grams of protein, and 75% of its calories come from protein.
没错，28克蛋白质，它的热量75%来自于蛋白质。
These bars from David also taste amazing.
大卫的这些酒吧味道也很棒。
My favorite flavor is chocolate chip cookie dough.
我最喜欢的口味是巧克力饼干面团。
But then again, I also like the chocolate fudge flavored one, and I also like the cake flavored one.
但话又说回来，我也喜欢巧克力软糖口味的，我也喜欢蛋糕口味的。
Basically, I like all the flavors.
基本上所有的口味我都喜欢。
They're incredibly delicious.
它们非常美味。
For me personally, I strive to eat mostly whole foods.
就我个人而言，我努力主要吃天然食品。
However, when I'm in a rush or I'm away from home, or I'm just looking for a quick afternoon snack, I often find that I'm looking for a high-quality protein source.
然而，当我很赶时间或者我不在家，或者我只是想吃点下午茶时，我经常发现我正在寻找高质量的蛋白质来源。
With David, I'm able to get 28 grams of protein with the calories of a snack, which makes it very easy to hit my protein goals of one gram of protein per pound of body weight each day.
有了 David，我就能用一份零食的热量获取 28 克蛋白质，这使得我很容易达到每天每磅体重 1 克蛋白质的蛋白质目标。
And it allows me to do that without taking in excess calories.
它使我能够在不摄入过多卡路里的情况下做到这一点。
I typically eat a David bar in the early afternoon or even mid-afternoon if I want to bridge that gap between lunch and dinner.
如果我想弥补午餐和晚餐之间的差距，我通常会在下午早些时候甚至下午中旬吃大卫酒吧。
I like that it's a little bit sweet, so it tastes like a tasty snack, but it's also giving me that 28 grams of very high-quality protein with just 150 calories.
我喜欢它有点甜，所以它尝起来像美味的零食，但它也为我提供了 28 克优质蛋白质，而热量仅为 150 卡路里。
If you would like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 David，可以访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
Again, the link is davidprotein.com/huberman.
同样，链接是 david Protein.com/huberman。
I've long been interested in shifting one's emotions and when that feels good, when it is good, and when it doesn't feel good.
长期以来，我一直对改变一个人的情绪感兴趣，什么时候感觉良好，什么时候感觉良好，什么时候感觉不好。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I asked our friend Ethan Kross about this, too.
我也向我们的朋友伊森·克罗斯（Ethan Kross）询问了这个问题。
I'm not going to compare your answers as a template for- ...
我不会将您的答案作为模板进行比较 - ...
who's right, who's wrong.
谁是对的，谁是错的。
I think there are a lot of differing opinions on this.
我认为对此有很多不同的意见。
But I know from the time we are young kids, we don't like to be shifted.
但我知道，从我们还是小孩子的时候起，我们就不喜欢被转移。
We don't like people to impose an emotional requirement on us.
我们不喜欢人们对我们强加情感要求。
In fact, my niece, when she was little, I was telling her this.
事实上，我的侄女，当她还小的时候，我就告诉过她这个。
She's 18 now.
她现在18岁了。
She was not amused.
她并不觉得好笑。
Which delighted me that she was not amused.
让我高兴的是她没有被逗乐。
But when she was little, she was a pretty healthily stubborn kid.
但小时候，她是一个非常健康顽固的孩子。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you'd ask her to do anything.
你会要求她做任何事。
Like, "Hey, let's go downstairs for a walk," and she loved going outside for walks, and she'd say, "No, push me." And then she would get her stuff, and then you'd go for a walk.
就像，“嘿，我们下楼去散步吧，”她喜欢出去散步，她会说，“不，推我吧。”然后她会去拿她的东西，然后你就去散步。
But I loved her like-
但我爱她就像——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
"No, push me."
“不行，推我一下。”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love this.
我喜欢这个。
It was also Costello was like a don't push me.
科斯特洛也像个“别逼我”的人。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You couldn't.
你不能。
So there was this immediate vocalization from the time she could speak, really, was like, "No, I'm going to decide how I feel."
所以从她会说话的那一刻起，她就立刻发出声音，真的，就像是，“不，我要决定我的感受。”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Such a healthy thing, too.
也是一件很健康的事情。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Such a healthy thing.
这么健康的事情。
You're not going to shift me.
你不会改变我的。
I was like, "We're going out for a walk.
我当时想，“我们要出去散步。
It's going to be fun." And she'd say, "No, push me," and then she'd go for the walk.
这会很有趣。”她会说：“不，推我吧”，然后她就去散步。
Most of the times it was a fun walk.
大多数时候，这是一次有趣的散步。
But I think that we don't like to be shifted.
但我认为我们不喜欢被转移。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And in some ways, we don't really like to shift ourselves.
在某些方面，我们并不真正喜欢改变自己。
Like when we're in a given emotion-
就像当我们处于某种特定的情绪中时——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
when people are feeling upset, they don't want to be told they should feel happy.
当人们感到沮丧时，他们不想被告知他们应该感到快乐。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And yet, no one really wants to be upset, although there's this...
然而，没有人真的想感到不安，尽管有这个......
Do you know this result?
你知道这个结果吗？
I don't want to spin off into a long discussion about this, but Robert Heath, a very controversial neurosurgeon-
我不想对此进行长时间的讨论，但是罗伯特·希思（Robert Heath），一位非常有争议的神经外科医生——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
from the '70s and '80s, did these experiments of stimulating in different parts of the brain, allowing people to self-stimulate-
从七十年代和八十年代开始，做了这些刺激大脑不同部位的实验，让人们自我刺激——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
different parts of their brain, and there were only three subjects because it's a-
他们大脑的不同部分，而且只有三个受试者，因为它是-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in vivo human neurostimulation experiment.
体内人体神经刺激实验。
All three subjects, by far, their favorite area to stimulate was this midline central nucleus.
到目前为止，所有三个受试者最喜欢刺激的区域是中线中央核。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Midline thalamic nucleus, rather.
中线丘脑核，更确切地说。
All three of them reported that the sensation that they would lever press the most for was frustration and mild anger.
他们三人都报告说，他们最常施压的感觉是沮丧和轻微的愤怒。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Humans like that shit.
人类就喜欢这种狗屎。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Excuse my language.
请原谅我的语言。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Why?
为什么？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Look, the horror movie industry would not exist if we didn't like fear, right?
听着，如果我们不喜欢恐惧，恐怖电影业就不会存在，对吗？
Honestly, Twitter, X, whatever we're calling it now, would not exist if we didn't like outrage, right?
老实说，如果我们不喜欢愤怒，Twitter、X，无论我们现在怎么称呼它，都不会存在，对吧？
These are kind of complicated negative emotions that have some positive benefit to us, and I think that this is something that people get wrong when they hear my line of research.
这些是一种复杂的负面情绪，但对我们有一些积极的好处，我认为人们在听到我的研究路线时会犯错。
I tell people like, "Oh, I teach this class about happiness at Yale," and people will say like, "Oh, you just want everybody to be happy.
我告诉人们，“哦，我在耶鲁教这门课关于幸福”，人们会说，“哦，你只是希望每个人都快乐。
You sort of embrace this toxic positivity." And I'm like, "No."
你有点接受这种有毒的积极情绪。”我的回答是：“不。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Toxic positivity?
有毒阳性？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Toxic positivity.
有毒阳性。
Yeah.
是的。
It's this idea, you kind of see it in our culture right now.
这就是这个想法，你现在可以在我们的文化中看到它。
It's this sort of good vibes only, right?
只是这种良好的氛围，对吗？
It's this idea that anything that feels mildly frustrating or hard to do, it's like, "Oh, no, just don't do that." It's like good vibes only, right?
正是这种想法，任何感觉有点令人沮丧或难以做的事情，就像，“哦，不，只是不要这样做。”这就像良好的氛围，对吗？
And there's this idea that if you're experiencing negative emotions, if you feel sad, or you feel a little lonely, or you feel a little upset at politics, whatever it is, that something's wrong, or you got to take a pill, or you got to do something to fix it, right?
有一种想法是，如果你正在经历负面情绪，如果你感到悲伤，或者你感到有点孤独，或者你对政治感到有点不安，不管是什么，那就是出了问题，或者你必须吃药，或者你必须做点什么来解决它，对吗？
I think that's a really dangerous idea, right?
我认为这是一个非常危险的想法，对吗？
Because it's getting rid of this signal that we've been built to experience evolutionarily that's really important, right?
因为它消除了我们生来就需要经历进化的信号，这非常重要，对吗？
If you're experiencing outrage, that's telling you something super crucial.
如果你感到愤怒，那就告诉你一些非常重要的事情。
If you're experiencing frustration, overwhelm is a big one.
如果你感到沮丧，那么不知所措是一件大事。
If you're kind of feeling, "Oh, I'm so overwhelmed at work and I'm burned out," that's a really useful signal about behavioral changes you should make.
如果你有种感觉，“哦，我在工作中不知所措，我精疲力竭”，这是一个关于你应该做出行为改变的非常有用的信号。
In class, I often tell my students that negative emotions are like that dashboard on your car.
在课堂上，我经常告诉我的学生，负面情绪就像汽车上的仪表板。
You go in your car and you're like, sometimes you're driving, the tire light comes on or the engine light comes on.
你走进你的车，有时你在开车，轮胎灯亮起或发动机灯亮起。
And that's a pain in the ass, honestly, because you're like, "Well, I got to deal with it." But so it's not fun when these lights come on, but it's super useful information that if you actively ignore it for months and months, it's going to cause a much bigger problem later on.
老实说，这是一件令人痛苦的事情，因为你会说，“好吧，我必须处理它。”但是，当这些灯亮起时，这并不有趣，但这是非常有用的信息，如果你几个月又几个月地主动忽略它，以后会导致更大的问题。
And I think this is how all of our negative emotions work.
我认为这就是我们所有负面情绪的运作方式。
If you're feeling that negative emotion of loneliness, it means you need more social connection.
如果您感到孤独的负面情绪，则意味着您需要更多的社交联系。
If you're feeling overwhelmed, it means you probably got to take something off your plate before you burn out or get sick.
如果你感到不知所措，这意味着你可能需要在精疲力尽或生病之前从你的盘子里拿掉一些东西。
If you're feeling sad, that's probably because of some stimulus that matters that is like kind of you're not there anymore, or if you're feeling grief and so on.
如果你感到悲伤，那可能是因为一些重要的刺激，比如你不再在那里，或者你感到悲伤等等。
I think too often we just want to get rid of those.
我想很多时候我们只是想摆脱这些。
We don't like them, so we want to suppress those emotions.
我们不喜欢它们，所以我们想压抑这些情绪。
But suppressing our emotions is giving up useful evolutionary information that probably means we can take action to fix and feel better.
但压抑我们的情绪就是放弃有用的进化信息，这可能意味着我们可以采取行动来修复并感觉更好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Americans might be surprised to hear this, but I learned this from my father, who's from South America, he's from Argentina, went to British schools when he was young.
美国人听到这个可能会感到惊讶，但我从我父亲那里得知了这一点，他来自南美，来自阿根廷，年轻时曾在英国学校读书。
And he told me when I was probably 10 or 12, I can't remember exactly how old, he said, "In the British formal school system, if you act too happy, people accuse you of being stupid."
他告诉我，当时我大概10岁或12岁，我记不清具体多大了，他说，“在英国正规学校系统中，如果你表现得太高兴，人们会指责你愚蠢。”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To be gleeful or happy.
感到高兴或高兴。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And now I would say, well, they're perfectly fine being happy when they're drinking.
现在我想说，好吧，他们在喝酒时感到快乐是完全没有问题的。
I will say that the after-work alcohol culture in London-
我想说的是伦敦下班后的酒精文化——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
The 5:14 PM crowd.
下午 5:14 人群。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
they drink a lot.
他们喝很多酒。
I don't know if it's still the case, but they drink a lot.
我不知道现在是否仍然如此，但他们喝了很多酒。
And then they get very outwardly happy.
然后他们表面上就会变得非常快乐。
But there's this idea, and this was true when I came into academia, that if somebody wasn't super serious, that they might be stupid.
但有一个想法，当我进入学术界时确实如此，如果有人不是非常认真，他们可能会很愚蠢。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think in the United States now, we tend to celebrate more expressions of glee.
我认为现在在美国，我们倾向于庆祝更多欢乐的表达。
But that's usually in the context of celebrity and wealth.
但这通常是在名人和财富的背景下。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like these people getting on their private planes or something.
就像这些人乘坐私人飞机什么的。
But I think there's still some elements to this that we internalize, that if you're happy, that you're not worrying about something.
但我认为我们仍然内化了一些因素，如果你快乐，你就不会担心某些事情。
If you're not worrying about something, then you're ignoring the woes of the world.
如果你不担心某事，那么你就忽视了世界的苦难。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe even the threats that are all around you.
甚至可能是你周围的威胁。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so in some ways, we are conditioned to always want to be happy.
因此，在某些方面，我们习惯于总是想要快乐。
That does seem to be one message, but then we also get the conflicting message that to be happy is to be ignorant-
这似乎确实是一个信息，但我们也得到了相互矛盾的信息，即快乐就是无知——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of what's really happening, if not to you, then to other people, and therefore you're not fulfilling your role in society.
真实发生的事情，如果不是发生在你身上，也会发生在其他人身上，因此你没有履行你在社会中的角色。
So who are you to be happy all the time?
那么你是谁才能一直快乐呢？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And-
还有——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's a lot of judgment written into this thing around happiness, I'm realizing.
我意识到，围绕幸福这件事有很多评判。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, totally.
是的，完全可以。
And I think you're bringing up something that I actually worry about a lot, which is, is that hypothesis correct?
我认为你提出了一些我实际上非常担心的事情，那就是，这个假设正确吗？
Is it the case that if you're feeling happy, you just ignore the woes and all the terrible stuff in the world?
是不是如果你感到快乐，你就会忽略世界上的痛苦和所有可怕的事情？
Because then I'm creating a whole generation of Yale students who are going to not fix the bad problems of life.
因为那时我正在培养整整一代耶鲁学生，他们将无法解决生活中的坏问题。
And so it turns out there's a researcher at Georgetown, Konstantin Kushlev, who's tested this.
事实证明，乔治城大学的一位研究人员康斯坦丁·库什列夫（Konstantin Kushlev）对此进行了测试。
He actually asked the question, is it the case that people who are experiencing more positive emotion, more satisfaction with life, do they ignore the problems of the world and not act, or are they the ones going out and doing stuff?
他实际上问了一个问题，是不是那些正在经历更积极的情绪、对生活更满意的人，他们是忽视世界的问题而不采取行动，还是他们出去做事？
And so he did this in a couple different contexts.
所以他在几个不同的背景下做到了这一点。
He looked for social justice causes.
他寻找社会正义事业。
I'll tell the climate version.
我会告诉气候版本。
So he looked at how many people are taking climate action.
因此，他调查了有多少人正在采取气候行动。
So do you go to a protest?
那你去抗议吗？
Do you put solar panels on?
你装太阳能电池板吗？
Are you donating money to climate causes?
您是否为气候事业捐款？
And he finds that the people who are really climate anxious, they tend to have less positive emotions.
他发现，真正对气候感到焦虑的人往往没有那么积极的情绪。
You're really worried about climate change.
你真的很担心气候变化。
You tend to be more on the depressed, anxious side.
你往往更加抑郁、焦虑。
But if you're doing stuff about it, then you tend to have more positive emotion.
但如果你正在做一些事情，那么你往往会产生更积极的情绪。
I think he assumes the causal arrow goes in the other way, that if you're happier, if you're experiencing lots of delights and positive emotion, you have the bandwidth to do stuff.
我认为他认为因果箭头是相反的，如果你更快乐，如果你体验到很多快乐和积极的情绪，你就有足够的带宽去做事情。
You can go to that protest, where if you're super depressed, you're just going to lie in bed with your duvet.
你可以去参加那个抗议活动，如果你非常沮丧，你就会盖着羽绒被躺在床上。
You don't have the bandwidth to do this stuff.
你没有足够的带宽来做这些事情。
And so this whole kind of Pollyanna-ish hypothesis about happiness, it makes complete intuitive sense.
因此，这种关于幸福的盲目乐观的假设，完全符合直觉。
But if you look at the data, it's actually the opposite, which is a good thing because I think it gives us a mandate not to stay depressed about everything in the world, pissed off about what's happening.
但如果你看一下数据，实际上恰恰相反，这是一件好事，因为我认为它赋予我们一个任务，不要对世界上的一切感到沮丧，不要对正在发生的事情感到愤怒。
Yes, those negative emotions are good to notice and experience and act on, but we can take care of ourselves and it's okay.
是的，这些负面情绪值得关注、体验并采取行动，但我们可以照顾好自己，这也没关系。
It doesn't mean we're going to stop doing good stuff in the world.
这并不意味着我们将停止在世界上做善事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have a family member, she's wonderful.
我有一个家庭成员，她很棒。
She saves animals constantly, and she knows that she has an excessive number of animals, but she's from the East Coast.
她不断拯救动物，她知道自己的动物数量过多，但她来自东海岸。
She's from New Jersey.
她来自新泽西州。
And the other day she told me, she goes, "You know, I like your podcast, but sometimes you have these guests on that are clearly from the West Coast, and you guys get into this real West Coast, California squishy stuff, and I just can't listen to those." And I said...
有一天，她告诉我，她说，“你知道，我喜欢你的播客，但有时你的嘉宾显然来自西海岸，你们进入了真正的西海岸、加利福尼亚州的软绵绵的东西，我就是听不了那些。”我说……
I won't say her name, for sake of privacy.
为了保护隐私，我不会透露她的名字。
But she said, "But I really like it when, even if the topic is about something kind of squishy, if the person's from the East Coast, then I believe what they're saying." And she goes, "Yeah, out there, you're into this and that." And I said, "Well, out there, in New Jersey, language is kind of a weapon."
但她说，“但我真的很喜欢这样，即使话题是关于某种模糊的东西，如果这个人来自东海岸，那么我相信他们说的话。”她说：“是的，你对这个那个感兴趣。”我说：“嗯，在新泽西州，语言是一种武器。”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
She goes, "It's absolutely a weapon." So I do think there are these even local cultural things, like people from the Midwest, to me, I don't want to stereotype, but every time I go to the Midwest, I must say that there's an etiquette.
她说：“这绝对是一种武器。”所以我确实认为这些甚至是当地的文化东西，就像来自中西部的人一样，对我来说，我不想刻板印象，但每次我去中西部，我必须说有一种礼仪。
People are just so polite and kind.
人们是如此有礼貌和友善。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the mean level of decency is much higher than it is, say, in California.
因此，礼仪的平均水平比加州等地要高得多。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In California, there are some other things that are wonderful that are lacking elsewhere, and on the East Coast and so forth.
在加利福尼亚州，还有一些其他地方所缺乏的美妙事物，比如东海岸等。
But yeah, I think one can overgeneralize, but I think that the reason I raise this is that maybe we all need to pay a little bit of attention to the messages that we internalized in our family and our culture-
但是，是的，我认为人们可能会以偏概全，但我认为我提出这个问题的原因是，也许我们都需要稍微关注我们在家庭和文化中内化的信息——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
growing up and ask ourselves whether or not our degree of happiness or lack thereof is by some programming.
成长并问问自己，我们的幸福程度或缺乏程度是否是由某种编程决定的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Literally social programming that we've internalized.
从字面上看，我们已经内化了社交编程。
Because I grew up in a home where cynical humor was rewarded.
因为我是在一个愤世嫉俗的幽默得到回报的家庭长大的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Ah.
啊。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I've learned over the years, in part through discussions with Jumil Zaki and others, I'm working on it.
多年来，我通过与 Jumil Zaki 和其他人的讨论了解到，我正在努力解决这个问题。
Not all my humor is cynical, but I don't like cynicism.
我的幽默并非全部都是愤世嫉俗的，但我不喜欢愤世嫉俗。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It bums me out.
这让我很恼火。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It doesn't feel good.
感觉不太好。
And I realize it doesn't feel good.
我意识到这感觉不太好。
I love delight.
我爱喜悦。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I don't like cynicism.
但我不喜欢愤世嫉俗。
That's just me.
这就是我。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And for the cynics out there, cool, you do you.
对于那些愤世嫉俗的人来说，很酷，你就是你。
But- I think we have to pay attention to where our set point is with this stuff.
但是 - 我认为我们必须注意我们的设定点在哪里。
Because some people are sitting real in the "no push me," and they want to be unhappy.
因为有些人真正处于“别推我”的境地，他们想要不快乐。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
We're heading up on the holidays here, so like Scrooge.
我们要来这里度假，就像斯克鲁奇一样。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And other people, they're not feeling good, they want to be happy, and then other people really are just like, no worries.
而其他人，他们感觉不好，他们想要快乐，然后其他人真的就像，不用担心。
Down in Australia, it's all no worries.
在澳大利亚，一切都不用担心。
And what do they say in Costa Rica?
哥斯达黎加人怎么说？
I always-
我总是——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Oh, pura vida, yeah.
哦，纯粹生活，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which means?
这意味着什么？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
It's like the good life, chill life, that kind of thing.
这就像美好的生活，寒冷的生活，诸如此类的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, everyone's just telling each other how great life should be all day long.
是的，每个人都只是整天告诉彼此生活应该有多美好。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I think you're getting at a really important issue, right?
我认为你正在讨论一个非常重要的问题，对吗？
Which is like, do we have a happiness set point?
这就像，我们有一个幸福设定点吗？
And if we do, where does it come from, right?
如果我们这样做了，它从哪里来，对吗？
In your example of growing up cynically and having these cynical messages, it could be that that was some sort of maybe epigenetic thing, or you're around all these people that are cynical, and you learn how to do it, right?
在你愤世嫉俗地成长并收到这些愤世嫉俗的信息的例子中，这可能是某种表观遗传的东西，或者你周围都是愤世嫉俗的人，你学会了如何做到这一点，对吗？
But it could be more of the genetic side.
但这可能更多是遗传方面的。
Maybe there's some pre-programmed sense of your negativity bias or something.
也许你的消极偏见有某种预先设定好的感觉。
We don't have great answers to those things, but it's definitely true that our place really shapes a lot of our tendencies that matter for happiness.
对于这些事情，我们没有很好的答案，但毫无疑问，我们的地方确实塑造了我们的许多对幸福至关重要的倾向。
We know this from some of the local place things that you said, I think.
我想我们从你所说的一些当地的事情中知道了这一点。
My in-laws are from the Midwest and yeah, totally.
我的姻亲来自中西部，是的，完全是。
They're just great, decent, kind, happy people.
他们只是伟大、正派、善良、快乐的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
If they're listening right now-
如果他们现在正在听的话——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
I don't know, I'm trying to train to be like you, right?
我不知道，我正在努力训练成为像你一样的人，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're wonderful.
他们很棒。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But we also know from even more macro level, right?
但我们也从更宏观的层面知道，对吗？
So for now, for decades, the World Happiness Report, in collaboration with the Gallup survey, has been surveying happiness of people across the world, right?
那么，几十年来，《世界幸福报告》与盖洛普调查合作，一直在调查世界各地人们的幸福感，对吧？
And they come up with these really consistent country-level differences in happiness.
他们得出了这些真正一致的国家层面的幸福差异。
The US, for a very wealthy country, is not very happy.
美国作为一个非常富裕的国家，却不太高兴。
We're pretty low on the scale.
我们的规模相当低。
And in fact, in the most recent World Happiness Report, we dipped below the top 10.
事实上，在最新的《世界幸福报告》中，我们的排名已跌至前十名以下。
We kind of had this major dive for the first time.
我们第一次进行这样的大型潜水。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Who are the happiest?
谁是最幸福的人？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Scandinavians.
斯堪的纳维亚人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh.
哦。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
So it's usually Denmark, Norway.
所以通常是丹麦、挪威。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
My stepmom's Danish.
我的继母是丹麦人。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, Danish.
是的，丹麦人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love going to Denmark.
我喜欢去丹麦。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, they're very happy people.
是的，他们是非常幸福的人。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
So they tend to be happy.
所以他们往往是快乐的。
And so we can ask the question, what's the difference?
所以我们可以问一个问题，有什么区别？
Maybe it's the great Scandinavian genes.
也许这是伟大的斯堪的纳维亚基因。
Probably not.
可能不会。
It's actually a lot of their cultural practices which build on the sorts of things we're talking about.
实际上，他们的很多文化实践都是建立在我们正在谈论的各种事物的基础上的。
Take social connection, right?
以社交关系为例，对吧？
There's a lot less work hours, so people can go home and hang out with their family.
工作时间少了很多，所以人们可以回家和家人一起出去玩。
There's a huge culture of clubs, for example, in Denmark, where people go off and do sporting things.
例如，在丹麦，俱乐部文化很盛行，人们会出去做运动。
A lot of fitness, right?
多多健身吧？
And the structures to get that fitness, right?
还有获得这种健身效果的结构，对吧？
Nobody expects you to be at work, so you can go ski or work out or hang out.
没有人期望您去工作，因此您可以去滑雪、锻炼或闲逛。
But-
但是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I will say they're very effective when they work.
我会说他们工作时非常有效。
They're very proficient.
他们非常熟练。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm struck by the average level of operational and intellectual intelligence of somebody.
我对某人的平均操作水平和智力水平感到震惊。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Your waiter in Denmark is an awesome waiter.
丹麦的服务员是一位很棒的服务员。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And oftentimes has very interesting things to say.
而且经常有非常有趣的事情要说。
The level of proficiency and the level of focus when they are working-
他们工作时的熟练程度和专注程度——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is immensely high.
非常高。
So they're not just kicking back all day.
所以他们不只是整天休息。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
No, and I think in part, it's a different attitude towards work.
不，我认为部分原因在于对工作的不同态度。
That there's a time for work, but you don't let your work leak into other things.
有工作的时间，但你不要让你的工作渗透到其他事情中。
There's this woman, Helen Russell, who wrote a book about the happiness in Denmark, or "The Danish Path to Happiness," I think is the name of the book.
有一位女士，海伦·拉塞尔，她写了一本关于丹麦幸福的书，我想这本书的名字就是《丹麦幸福之路》。
And she had this quote of like she was talking to people in Denmark, and there's often a thing that will happen where your manager has to talk to you at work and give you feedback, and it's in part because you're not leaving work on time.
她引用了这句话，就像她在丹麦和人们交谈一样，经常会发生这样的事情，你的经理必须在工作中与你交谈并给你反馈，部分原因是你没有按时下班。
You're there overtime, and they want to have a conversation with you, like, "What's your problem?
你在那里加班，他们想与你交谈，比如，“你有什么问题吗？
Why can't you finish your work in the allotted hours?" Which again, to American ears is like, "What?
为什么你不能在规定的时间内完成你的工作呢？”对于美国人来说，这又像是“什么？
Your manager would never say that."
你的经理绝不会这么说。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love it.
我喜欢它。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But that's the social thing, but country-level happiness is also affected by some of the thought patterns we talked about.
但这是社会问题，但国家层面的幸福感也受到我们谈到的一些思维模式的影响。
Like the Scandinavians, even though it's cold and dark and nothing like it's here in California with you right now, they take joy in these tiny moments.
就像斯堪的纳维亚人一样，尽管天气又冷又黑，而且与你现在在加利福尼亚州的情况完全不同，他们也会在这些微小的时刻感到快乐。
This idea of hygge, right?
这个 hygge 的想法，对吗？
H-Y-G-G-E, hygge, where you notice the warmth of your coffee or have these candles or things.
H-Y-G-G-E，hygge，你注意到咖啡的温暖或拥有这些蜡烛或东西。
It's a society that's really focused on presence in a really rich way.
这是一个真正注重以一种非常丰富的方式存在的社会。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Like I said, my father's Latin, he's from Argentina, and he married a Danish woman.
就像我说的，我父亲是拉丁人，来自阿根廷，他娶了一位丹麦女人。
And I would say much of their life is about cherishing and delighting in these-
我想说他们生活的大部分时间都是关于珍惜和享受这些——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
small things.
小事。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The everyday things.
日常的事情。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Dare I say it, I think that's one of their major points of convergence.
我敢说，我认为这是他们的主要共识之一。
I'm sure there are others, but that's a major point of convergence.
我确信还有其他的观点，但这是一个主要的共识点。
I think growing up in the United States, I sort of internalized this idea that you're supposed to figure out who you are and go do big things.
我认为在美国长大的过程中，我已经内化了这样的想法：你应该弄清楚自己是谁，然后去做大事。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That was the message that I internalized.
这就是我内化的信息。
Part of that was the high school I went to.
其中一部分是我就读的高中。
It was a super competitive high school, and the kind of people I tended to surround myself by.
那是一所竞争超级激烈的高中，我周围都是这样的人。
But yeah, I think for some of us, the effort is in trying to learn to appreciate the little things.
但是，是的，我认为对于我们中的一些人来说，努力就是努力学会欣赏小事。
Having a dog, and we have to talk about dogs.
养了狗，就不得不谈谈狗。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yes, please.
是的，请。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because you've actually studied dogs.
因为你实际上研究过狗。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Extensively.
广泛地。
Dogs and non-human primates in a natural setting and the other old world primates, humans.
自然环境中的狗和非人类灵长类动物以及其他旧世界灵长类动物，人类。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
People talk about how dogs are just present.
人们谈论狗是如何存在的。
They're not thinking about the past.
他们没有考虑过去。
They're not thinking about the future.
他们没有考虑未来。
I'd like to challenge that just for a second.
我想挑战一下这一点。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This isn't the cynic in me-
这不是我的愤世嫉俗-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
this is the scientist in me, and I'm genuinely curious.
这就是我内心的科学家，我真的很好奇。
How do we know that dogs aren't thinking a little bit about the past or the walk they're going to take later that afternoon?
我们怎么知道狗没有思考过去或下午晚些时候要散步的事情？
Do we know?
我们知道吗？
They have a prefrontal cortex that can anticipate things.
他们有一个可以预测事物的前额叶皮层。
They have a memory system.
他们有一个记忆系统。
They have a hippocampus and a cortex.
它们有海马体和皮质。
They can remember things.
他们可以记住事情。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So how do we know that our dog isn't sitting there, yes, trying to glean as much sunshine as they can on their belly through the window, but maybe they're thinking, like, "Gosh, when are they going to finish doing whatever it is they're doing so we can go outside and play ball?"
那么我们怎么知道我们的狗没有坐在那里，是的，试图通过窗户收集尽可能多的阳光照在肚子上，但也许他们在想，“天哪，他们什么时候才能完成他们正在做的事情，这样我们就可以出去玩球了？”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It's such a hard question.
这是一个很难回答的问题。
And I think it's one that every dog owner has really wondered about, right?
我认为这是每个狗主人都真正想知道的，对吧？
I've thought about this question actually more in the monkeys, right?
我实际上在猴子身上更多地思考过这个问题，对吧？
We can fight about dog neurobiology, and they've got some of the stuff, but they're kind of distinct.
我们可以就狗的神经生物学争论，它们有一些东西，但它们有点不同。
They're tiny walnut brains rather than primate brains.
它们是微小的核桃大脑，而不是灵长类动物的大脑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Let's just say that, well, first of all, dogs have, as far as I know, one of the most dramatic ranges in body size-
让我们这么说吧，首先，据我所知，狗的体型是最引人注目的范围之一——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
within a given species of animal.
在给定的动物种类内。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So Chihuahua, Great Dane.
所以吉娃娃，大丹犬。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it's the dosing of IGF-1 that regulates body size in dogs.
我认为 IGF-1 的剂量可以调节狗的体型。
It's a beautiful cover of Science magazine that we can put a link to with a Chihuahua and a Great Dane.
这是《科学》杂志的精美封面，我们可以在其中添加吉娃娃和大丹犬的链接。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Love it, yeah.
喜欢它，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's just like, whoa, same species.
就像，哇，同一个物种。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They have relatively small brains relative to their body weight size regardless.
不管怎样，相对于他们的体重来说，他们的大脑相对较小。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
And if you look at what the brain's doing, a lot of it is sensory.
如果你观察一下大脑在做什么，就会发现很多都是感官方面的。
I mean, a lot of it's olfactory, right?
我的意思是，很多都是嗅觉，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
It's not the ruminative thinking about stuff that we have expanded a lot in the primate brain.
这并不是我们在灵长类动物大脑中大量扩展的对事物的反省思维。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not a lot of prefrontal cortex.
前额皮质不多。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Not a lot of prefrontal cortex.
前额皮质不多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The stuff right behind your forehead, folks, is the part that allows you to say, "Shh," to your impulses, to quiet your impulses, suppress them, and also context-dependent learning and planning.
伙计们，额头后面的东西是让你对自己的冲动说“嘘”的部分，可以平息你的冲动，抑制它们，也可以根据情境进行学习和计划。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what to do, what to say, what not to do, what not to say in a given environment.
那么在特定环境下该做什么、该说什么、不该做什么、不该说什么。
There's a lot in your brain about that, that is controlled by so-called executive function, the sort of conductor of the whole thing.
你的大脑中有很多关于这方面的内容，它们是由所谓的执行功能控制的，执行功能是整个事情的指挥者。
And you're saying dogs have a pretty limited real estate there.
你是说狗在那里的空间非常有限。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
They're limited.
他们是有限的。
And if you think about what that real estate does, it can do that shush.
如果你想想那个房地产的作用，你就会发现它可以做到这一点。
It can take you out of the moment.
它可以让你脱离当下。
But they're related parts of cortex close by that's doing a lot of the work of thinking about past episodes, thinking about what other people are thinking, thinking about counterfactuals.
但它们是大脑皮层附近的相关部分，负责思考过去的事件、思考其他人在想什么、思考反事实。
Like not-
就像不-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this is what humans are doing.
这就是人类正在做的事情。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
This is what humans are doing.
这就是人类正在做的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Like the human big version of this, right?
就像人类的大版本一样，对吧？
And this is the kind of stuff that gets us into trouble when it comes to presence.
当涉及到存在感时，这就是会给我们带来麻烦的东西。
I think the dog's walking around, and it's like, I don't know what it's sniffing.
我觉得那只狗在四处走动，就像，我不知道它在嗅什么。
Like, "Hydrant, hydrant, hydrant." Like, "Dog, dog, person, person." And I think it's there because it doesn't have as much circuitry to be like, "Well, this hydrant's not exactly as good as the other hydrant I smelled before.
就像“消防栓，消防栓，消防栓”。就像，“狗，狗，人，人”。我认为它在那里是因为它没有那么多电路，就像“嗯，这个消防栓不像我之前闻到的另一个消防栓那么好。
What would Bob, the other dog, be thinking of this hydrant right now?" I think-
鲍勃，另一只狗，现在会怎么想这个消防栓呢？”我认为——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or they're still laughing at so and so from the dog park incident two weeks ago, right?
或者他们还在嘲笑两周前狗公园事件中的某某，对吧？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So much of human negative interaction is humans exchanging good and bad information about other humans.
人类的大部分负面互动都是人类交换有关其他人的好和坏的信息。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Oh, totally.
哦，完全可以。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's like the basis of, not all, but a lot of social media.
它就像不是全部但很多社交媒体的基础。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And a lot of our rumination is us thinking about the other information that people have about us, right?
我们的很多思考都是在思考人们掌握的关于我们的其他信息，对吗？
You know, kind of ruminating.
你知道，有点沉思。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When in fact, we have no idea what people are thinking.
事实上，我们不知道人们在想什么。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Yeah.
是的。
And so, I often think about this.
所以，我经常思考这个问题。
So in Buddhist circles, there's this discussion of the monkey mind, by which they mean the part of your mind that when you're trying to be present and focus on the moment, especially in practices like meditation, kind of runs off somewhere.
因此，在佛教界，有关于猴子思维的讨论，他们指的是当你试图活在当下并专注于当下时，特别是在冥想等练习中，你的思维的一部分会跑到某个地方。
That's your monkey mind running off, and you have to yank it back by the tail or something.
那是你的猴子思维跑掉了，你必须抓住尾巴什么的把它拉回来。
And I've always thought that was a real unnecessary diss to monkeys.
我一直认为这对猴子来说是一种真正不必要的diss。
Because my sense is, at least the rhesus monkeys, which is the species I worked with, they seem a lot more like dogs than humans.
因为我的感觉是，至少是我研究过的恒河猴，它们看起来更像狗，而不是人类。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
I work with this group of monkeys in a field site called Cayo Santiago.
我在圣地亚哥岛的一个现场与这群猴子一起工作。
It's this island off the coast of Puerto Rico, and it's home to 1,000 free-ranging rhesus monkeys.
这座岛屿位于波多黎各海岸附近，是 1,000 只自由放养的恒河猴的家园。
So we can do our studies and just walk around with these monkeys who are living freely.
这样我们就可以一边学习一边和这些自由自在生活的猴子一起散步。
And you see them and I'll sometimes sit near a monkey who's sitting there looking out onto the ocean and just sitting there.
你看到它们，我有时会坐在一只猴子旁边，猴子坐在那里眺望大海，就坐在那里。
And I'm like, I bet what's going on in his head is not that human Buddhist version of the monkey mind where he's like, "What about this ocean?
我想，我敢打赌他脑子里想的并不是人类佛教版本的猴子思维，他会说，“这片海洋怎么样？
When do I have to go home?
我什么时候必须回家？
I have to cook something.
我得煮点东西。
Oh, what did my husband say to me?
哦，我丈夫对我说了什么？
Blah, blah, blah." It's not that.
巴拉、巴拉、巴拉。”不是那样的。
I think the monkey's version is just like, "Ocean.
我认为猴子的版本就像，“海洋。
Ocean." Like it's just there.
海洋。”就像它就在那里一样。
And so-
所以——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or even better, like Costello, I used to look at him and think, "What's going on in that brain of his?" And then I realized it's probably, and I wouldn't consider myself a neurophysiologist, but I've done certainly a fair number of recordings from the live brain, and I'm guessing most of what was in there is what we call hash.
或者更好的是，就像科斯特洛一样，我常常看着他并想：“他的大脑里到底在想什么？”然后我意识到这可能是，我不会认为自己是一名神经生理学家，但我确实已经从活体大脑中进行了相当多的录音，我猜其中的大部分内容就是我们所说的哈希。
Not the drug-
不是药——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but it's background white noise.
但这是背景白噪声。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's the sound you hear on the audio monitor-
这就是你在音频监视器上听到的声音——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
when there's no clean signal to noise.
当没有干净的信噪比时。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm guessing it's just hash.
我猜这只是哈希。
Like .
喜欢 。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I wonder if the term monkey mind...
我想知道猴子思维这个词是否...
Well, here, I'll just come clean.
好吧，在这里，我就坦白说出来。
I always thought that monkey mind was this image of a little monkey swinging from tree to tree.
我一直认为猴子的心灵是一只小猴子在树间荡来荡去的形象。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that it's the adjective, sort of superimposed on the human brain.
这是形容词，有点叠加在人脑上。
So excuse me, it's the verb of the moving monkey-
所以对不起，这是移动猴子的动词-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
transformed into an adjective judgment about the human brain.
转化为对人脑的形容词判断。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But it's so sad if you're a monkey.
但如果你是一只猴子，那就太可悲了。
Like, I think if monkeys had frontal cortex and talked to us, it'd be like, "Don't blame us for your like-
就像，我认为如果猴子有额叶皮层并与我们交谈，它会像，“不要因为你的喜欢而责怪我们-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly
正是如此
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
it's the human brain part of the brain that trips you out."
是人类大脑的一部分让你陷入困境。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, it's like bird brain.
嗯，就像鸟脑一样。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As somebody who really appreciates raptors and diving birds, think about the computations diving birds have to do.
作为真正欣赏猛禽和潜水鸟类的人，请考虑一下潜水鸟类必须进行的计算。
They have to adjust for the refractory index of the water.
他们必须调整水的折射率。
So where they see the fish is not where the fish is.
所以他们看到鱼的地方并不是鱼所在的地方。
And, so when people say bird brain, I'm like, "Listen, bird-"
而且，所以当人们说鸟脑时，我会说，“听着，鸟——”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Don't get me started on corvid cognition.
别让我开始谈论鸦科动物的认知。
Those guys are the smartest.
那些人是最聪明的。
Yeah.
是的。
Smartest guys out there.
那里最聪明的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So monkeys, but you're making me realize, I always thought rhesus macaques, which are Old World primates, like us-
所以猴子，但你让我意识到，我一直认为恒河猴，它们是旧世界的灵长类动物，就像我们一样-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or we're like them, that they had a fair amount of prefrontal real estate in their brain, such that they could think and strategize and plan.
或者我们和他们一样，他们的大脑中有相当多的前额叶区域，这样他们就可以思考、制定策略和计划。
I mean, if one just watches one episode of that Netflix special, which I love, which is "Chimp Empire."
我的意思是，如果有人只看我喜欢的 Netflix 特别节目《黑猩猩帝国》中的一集。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's all this stuff about who's in power, and then they're going to team up, and then they're going to wait a few days until that one's injured, and then they're not going to groom the other one, and boom, there's an overta- I mean, like very complicated.
所有这些关于谁掌权的事情，然后他们要组队，然后他们要等几天，直到那个人受伤，然后他们不会培养另一个人，然后繁荣，有一个过度 - 我的意思是，非常复杂。
It's chess, not checkers-
这是国际象棋，不是跳棋
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for Old World primates.
对于旧大陆灵长类动物。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I think there could be a big distinction between what chimpanzees are doing.
我认为黑猩猩所做的事情可能有很大区别。
I mean, they're our closest, tied with bonobos, our closest living relative.
我的意思是，它们是我们最亲近的，与倭黑猩猩有联系，是我们现存的最亲近的亲戚。
That was what?
那是什么？
Like 30 million.
好像有3000万。
It wasn't so long, right?
时间并没有那么长，对吧？
Whereas rhesus monkeys are pretty far off, right?
而恒河猴离我们还很遥远，对吧？
I think there could be a lot of things that happened in between.
我想这中间可能发生了很多事情。
And we know that not necessarily from the neurobiology, because it's hard to ask functional neurobiology questions with animals.
我们知道这不一定来自神经生物学，因为很难向动物提出功能神经生物学问题。
You can't put them in an fMRI where they're doing behavior as easily as you can with a human.
你不能将它们放入功能磁共振成像中，让它们像人类一样轻松地做出行为。
But we know it from cognition studies that look at things like, how good are, say, rhesus monkeys at perspective taking, at taking on someone else's beliefs, knowing, oh, somebody's thinking something-
但我们从认知研究中知道这一点，这些研究着眼于诸如恒河猴在换位思考、接受别人的信仰、知道，哦，某人在思考某事方面有多擅长——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Theory of mind
心智理论
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
theory of mind, yeah.
心理理论，是的。
Thinking something different than I'm thinking.
想到的东西和我想的不一样。
And they're not so hot at it.
而且他们对此并不那么热衷。
They really use their own perspective to make judgements pretty well.
他们确实很好地利用自己的观点做出判断。
Same thing when we look at cases of counterfactual thinking.
当我们观察反事实思维的案例时，情况也是如此。
Do you have regret over an outcome that you didn't get?
你是否因为没有得到结果而感到遗憾？
Something that rhesus monkeys find hard.
恒河猴觉得很难的东西。
So it seems like they're very good at sophisticatedly planning in the present moment.
所以看起来他们非常擅长在当前时刻进行复杂的计划。
You and I are talking here right now.
你和我现在正在这里谈话。
If you're watching the video, you can see I have a cup.
如果你正在观看视频，你会看到我有一个杯子。
I might be planning to pick up the cup.
我可能正打算拿起杯子。
But the cups here, everything, I'm not simulating, what if this was a lovely martini?
但这里的杯子，一切，我不是在模拟，如果这是一杯可爱的马提尼酒怎么办？
That's the kind of thing that probably a human can do really well, but a monkey can't.
这种事情人类可能可以做得很好，但猴子却做不到。
So they can plan and take next step actions when there's around the world that they experience, but they can't simulate worlds that are totally different, and that includes the kind of complicated stuff going on in somebody else's head.
因此，当他们经历世界各地时，他们可以计划并采取下一步行动，但他们无法模拟完全不同的世界，其中包括别人头脑中发生的那种复杂的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So they're good at short-term strategy.
所以他们擅长短期策略。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This fits with what a friend of mine who studies behavior in macaques told me, which is that you can set up a really nice, complicated, on paper, perfect experiment where the monkey is going to inform you about some important feature of how the brain works in terms of behavioral economics or something.
这符合我的一位研究猕猴行为的朋友告诉我的话，那就是你可以建立一个非常好的、复杂的、纸上谈兵的、完美的实验，猴子会告诉你大脑在行为经济学或其他方面如何运作的一些重要特征。
But then what you realize is, or what the monkey realizes, even if it doesn't consciously realize, is that no matter what, they're going to get reward 50% of the time on average.
但是你意识到，或者猴子意识到，即使它没有有意识地意识到，无论如何，他们平均有 50% 的时间会获得奖励。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they'll just hit the lever or give an answer as fast as they can, so they get that day's ration of reward.
他们只需按下控制杆或尽快给出答案，这样他们就可以获得当天的奖励。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And just, that's the end of the day.
只是，这就是一天的结束。
And so they're not cheating.
所以他们没有作弊。
They're just like, "Why would I work any harder than this to actually do the experiment you want me to do?"
他们就像，“为什么我要比这更努力地工作来实际做你想让我做的实验？”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so what many primate behavioral researchers end up becoming are monkey trainers.
因此，许多灵长类动物行为研究人员最终成为猴子训练员。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
The bane of every animal researcher's existence, this is whether you test dogs, monkeys, rodents, whatever, is what are called side biases.
每个动物研究人员存在的祸根是，无论你测试的是狗、猴子、啮齿类动物还是其他动物，这就是所谓的侧面偏见。
What's a side bias?
什么是侧偏？
It's you're giving an animal a choice between A and B.
你让动物在 A 和 B 之间做出选择。
A's on the left, B's on the right, and rather than think through these complicated things you want them to think through, they're just like, "Whatever.
A 在左边，B 在右边，而不是你希望他们思考的这些复杂的事情，他们只是说，“随便吧。
A, left.
A、左。
I'll go left.
我会向左走。
Left, left, left, left, left." When you're like, "No. I know you get rewarded 50% of the time, but I had this really creative question I wanted you to pay attention," and they just don't care.
左，左，左，左，左。”当你说，“不。我知道你有 50% 的时间会得到奖励，但我有一个非常有创意的问题，我希望你能注意”，而他们就是不在乎。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They don't care.
他们不在乎。
Well, they're-
嗯，他们是——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Or they're getting rewarded enough at 50% that you have to do something like what researchers in the field, now we're getting really in the trenches, called breaking a side bias, where you're like, "No, I'm going to give more reward at B.
或者他们得到了 50% 的奖励，你必须做一些像该领域的研究人员所做的事情，现在我们正在真正进入战壕，称为打破侧面偏见，你会说，“不，我要在 B 给予更多奖励。
If you're only going to left, then I'm going to give more reward at right." We move them and stuff, but it does often seem to be the case that the monkeys are training us more than we're training the monkeys.
如果你只往左边走，那我就在右边给予更多的奖励。”我们移动它们之类的东西，但通常情况下，猴子对我们的训练似乎比我们对猴子的训练更多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I delight in that a little bit.
我对此感到有点高兴。
I confess just a little bit.
我只承认一点点。
Just a tiny bit.
只是一点点。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
I'll share one story that gets it, this sort of perspective-taking and how good they are, that they are good when it's what's in the here and now.
我将分享一个故事，这种换位思考的方式非常好，当它发生在此时此地时，它们就很好。
We were doing these studies on the island, which involved sort of showing monkeys some food, and we had these eggplants in a box that we were making the monkeys look at for various reasons.
我们在岛上进行这些研究，其中涉及向猴子展示一些食物，我们将这些茄子放在一个盒子里，出于各种原因让猴子看。
And we couldn't find a monkey to test.
我们找不到猴子来测试。
On this island, you have to hike around till you find a monkey who's chilled out and whatever.
在这个岛上，你必须四处徒步旅行，直到找到一只冷静下来的猴子等等。
And we'd hiked around the whole island.
我们徒步环游了整个岛。
It was taking forever.
这花了很长时间。
And we get back to our starting location, and there's an eggplant that's sitting there, and we're like, "Where'd that eggplant come from?" And it's got bite marks out of it.
然后我们回到起始位置，那里有一个茄子，我们会想，“那个茄子是从哪里来的？”而且上面还有咬痕。
And we're like, "How did that..." And it was like, "Wait a minute, somebody must have stolen my eggplant." And we're like, "Well, how did that happen?" We were paying attention to the monkeys the whole time.
我们就像，“怎么会……”然后就像，“等一下，一定是有人偷了我的茄子。”我们会想，“好吧，这是怎么发生的？”我们一直在关注猴子。
We realized, like, "No, no, no. They must have stolen it when we were-- We probably put it down for a second, and they took it.
我们意识到，“不，不，不。他们一定是在我们的时候偷了它——我们可能把它放下了一秒钟，然后他们就拿走了它。
We didn't drop it." And so we realized, oh, not only are they good at stealing, but they can tell if we're looking at it.
我们没有放弃它。”所以我们意识到，哦，他们不仅擅长偷窃，而且还能辨别我们是否在看它。
But looking is something that all animals pay attention to gaze.
但看是所有动物都注重凝视的东西。
This is the kind of thing that even insects pay attention to.
这是连昆虫都会注意的事情。
That's why they have these markings that look like eyes, so that birds won't eat them and stuff.
这就是为什么它们有这些看起来像眼睛的标记，这样鸟就不会吃它们之类的东西。
Gaze following is really robust.
目光跟随确实很强大。
But that's different than that monkey thinking, "I bet that person's not looking." He's probably like, "No eyes, I can grab it." But if you look more sophisticatedly, they're not good at it.
但这与猴子的想法不同，“我打赌那个人没有在看。”他可能会说，“没有眼睛，我可以抓住它。”但如果你仔细观察，就会发现他们并不擅长。
But this was another case of realizing, oh, the monkeys are actually a lot smarter than we give them credit for, and maybe us, too.
但这是另一个认识到的例子，哦，猴子实际上比我们想象的要聪明得多，也许我们也是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, so what we're talking about is they are good at figuring out the basic rules.
是的，所以我们谈论的是他们善于找出基本规则。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe even up to the level of what you call in computer programming and gates.
甚至可能达到你所说的计算机编程和门的水平。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If this and that are happening, then I go right.
如果这个和那个发生了，那么我就向右走。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If that and that are not happening, then I don't do anything.
如果那件事没有发生，那么我什么也不做。
And if that and a third option are happening, well, then I go left.
如果发生这种情况和第三种选择，那么我就向左走。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if all three are happening, it doesn't matter.
如果这三种情况都发生，那也没关系。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They can probably figure out two or three levels of and gates.
他们可能可以找出两层或三层的“与”门。
But-
但是——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But what they can't do is simulate all these various situations.
但他们无法模拟所有这些不同的情况。
The amazing thing about being a human is I could imagine any scenario.
作为人类的奇妙之处在于我可以想象任何场景。
Imagine like 700 podcast listeners jumped on this table right now.
想象一下，现在有 700 名播客听众跳到这张桌子上。
Imagine if the table was orange.
想象一下如果桌子是橙色的。
Imagine if you were, I don't know, another podcaster.
想象一下，如果你是，我不知道，另一个播客。
You're Malcolm Gladwell or whatever.
你是马尔科姆·格拉德威尔什么的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
More hair.
更多头发。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
More hair, true.
更多的头发，确实如此。
I can simulate all these infinite different things.
我可以模拟所有这些无限不同的东西。
To try to program that is so hard, but it comes to us as humans in seconds.
尝试编程是如此困难，但对于我们人类来说，几秒钟之内就可以实现。
It's so fast, and it's the kind of thing that we use all the time.
它是如此之快，而且是我们一直使用的那种东西。
Honestly, it's the basis of a lot of our happiness.
老实说，这是我们很多幸福的基础。
Look at the fiction that we engage in.
看看我们从事的小说。
We're constantly paying deep and close attention to fictional worlds.
我们不断深入密切关注虚构世界。
I've cared more about some fictional worlds than I've cared about my own family members.
我对一些虚构的世界的关心比对我自己的家庭成员的关心还要多。
Sorry, family members.
对不起，家人。
But it's true.
但这是真的。
You're reading a novel, and you're like, "I'm crying.
你正在读一本小说，你会说：“我哭了。
I'm bawling.
我在嚎啕大哭。
I'm cheering for these people that I know are completely made up," because our brains just dive into these sort of fake worlds, these alternative worlds, so easily and so quickly, so powerfully.
我为这些我知道完全是虚构的人欢呼，”因为我们的大脑只是潜入这些虚假的世界，这些另类的世界，如此容易、如此迅速、如此有力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I definitely want to continue along the dimension of how we construct our happiness, but I just want to make sure that I ask again about dogs.
我绝对想继续沿着我们如何构建幸福的维度继续前进，但我只是想确保我再次询问有关狗的问题。
And let's just do this, because I know it's so politically dangerous, but let's talk about the dog versus cat thing.
我们就这样做吧，因为我知道这在政治上非常危险，但让我们谈谈狗与猫的事情。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
My sister loves cats.
我姐姐喜欢猫。
I don't dislike cats, but that doesn't mean I like them.
我并不讨厌猫，但这并不意味着我喜欢它们。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I once rented a place where there was a big cat, I think it was one of these Maine Coon cats.
我曾经租过一个地方，那里有一只大猫，我想那是缅因猫之一。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
His name was Baloo.
他的名字叫巴鲁。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
They're basically dogs.
他们基本上都是狗。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He's basically a dog.
他基本上是一只狗。
And Costello had certain cat-like qualities.
科斯特洛具有某些像猫一样的品质。
He just wanted to lounge all day.
他只想休息一整天。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he could really move like a dog, but most of the time, he was like a cat at home, and it was frustrating for me.
他确实可以像狗一样移动，但大多数时候，他在家里就像一只猫，这让我很沮丧。
But I mean What do you think it is?
但我的意思是你认为它是什么？
You have these feline people and you have-
你有这些猫科动物，而且你有——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
dog people, and I'm definitely in the dog camp.
狗人，我绝对是狗阵营的。
But one of the reasons I love dogs is I assume they're in the present, but-
但我喜欢狗的原因之一是我认为它们活在当下，但是——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
mostly it's the unconditional love.
主要是无条件的爱。
But what do you think it is, this dog cat thing?
但你觉得这是什么狗猫的事？
Cats are presumably in the present as well.
猫大概也存在于现在。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They don't make long-term plans, and if they do, they don't actualize those plans.
他们不制定长期计划，即使制定了，也不会实现这些计划。
So why is it that some people feel that cats are nasty animals that are plotting against them, and some people delight in cats?
那么为什么有的人觉得猫是对自己有阴谋的讨厌动物，而有的人却喜欢猫呢？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
We don't have great data on it, but my sense is it gets back to the unconditional love idea.
我们没有关于它的大量数据，但我的感觉是它回到了无条件的爱的理念。
If you're the kind of person who craves the unconditional love, you wind up being more of a dog person.
如果你是那种渴望无条件的爱的人，那么你最终会更像一个爱狗的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But if you like the, what was it that your, was it your niece?
但如果你喜欢的话，你的那是什么，是你的侄女吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, my niece.
是的，我的侄女。
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
What was it that your niece said?
你侄女说的是什么？
This like-
这就像——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No push me.
不用推我。
She used to hold her finger up.
她常常举起手指。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like you could say we're going-
就像你可以说我们要去-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Cats are a lot more no push me than dogs.
猫比狗更“别逼我”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Unless we said we were going for ice cream, it was no push me.
除非我们说我们要去吃冰淇淋，否则我不会被逼迫。
And I remember, and I still delight in it, thinking like, awesome.
我记得，而且仍然很高兴，想，太棒了。
She had such a strong spirit from the time she was little.
她从小就有如此坚强的精神。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
You might like cats because cats are a lot like no push me.
你可能喜欢猫，因为猫很喜欢“不逼我”。
And I think this is-
我认为这是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, no
哦，不
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
that-
那-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't want a cat.
我不想要猫。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Well, I think the removal of the sort of no push me might be one of the last stages of evolution and domestication of dogs.
嗯，我认为消除那种不给我动力可能是狗进化和驯化的最后阶段之一。
And I know this because in my dog work, we also did some very fun work with dingoes, which are the Australian wild dogs.
我知道这一点，因为在我的狗工作中，我们还与野狗（澳大利亚野狗）一起做了一些非常有趣的工作。
And while we don't fully know their history, our sense is those dogs got pretty close to humans, pretty tolerant of humans, but didn't go all the way to Costello in terms of the bond.
虽然我们并不完全了解它们的历史，但我们的感觉是，这些狗与人类非常接近，对人类非常宽容，但在纽带方面并没有一路走到科斯特洛。
And one of the amazing things, we interacted with this group at a sanctuary for dingoes out in Australia, one of the only sets of genetically pure dingoes in the world.
令人惊奇的事情之一是，我们在澳大利亚的一个野狗保护区与这群人进行了互动，这是世界上仅有的一组基因纯正的野狗之一。
We had this wonderful privilege to work with.
我们很荣幸能够与之合作。
But we had to do our keep at these field stations.
但我们必须留在这些野外站。
So we went in and helped cleaned up with the dingoes and so on.
所以我们进去和野狗一起帮忙清理等等。
And every morning you'd go out and you'd give the dingoes their food, which are these big kind of chickens, raw chickens, not live chickens, but they'd just chomp it in one gulp, just like bones and all, and you're like, whoa.
每天早上你都会出去给野狗吃食物，这些食物是大鸡，生鸡，不是活鸡，但它们只是一口气把食物嚼碎，就像骨头之类的，然后你就会说，哇。
And then right after that, they'd want to be kind of, "Oh, come on, nudge me, be nice." It was like a cat in its best mood.
然后就在那之后，他们会想要说，“哦，来吧，轻推我，表现得友善一点。”就像一只心情最好的猫。
But then at a certain point, they were just like, "No, I'll stop." They just had such their own will in this really amazing way, and it just felt incredibly cat-like.
但到了某个时候，他们就会说：“不，我会停下来。”他们以一种非常神奇的方式拥有自己的意志，感觉就像猫一样。
I'm like, "You look like a dog, but your behavior is so much more cat-like." So, I don't know.
我说，“你看起来像狗，但你的行为却更像猫。”所以，我不知道。
No great studies on this.
对此没有很好的研究。
It'd be great to figure it out, but my sense is distinction between dog people and cat people might be the unconditional love, no push me ratio of what people like.
弄清楚这一点很好，但我的感觉是狗人和猫人之间的区别可能是无条件的爱，而不是强迫我对人们喜欢的东西的比例。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
So interesting, and I like to think did not take us too far off course in our discussion-
太有趣了，我想我们的讨论并没有偏离主题太远——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
No
否
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
about happiness because we clearly delight in this and hopefully people do too, is that we think about the different brain architectures-
关于幸福，因为我们显然对此感到高兴，希望人们也这样做，那就是我们思考不同的大脑结构——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and the different capabilities that different brain architectures have across species.
以及不同物种的不同大脑结构具有不同的能力。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
If-
如果——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the fact that we live in such close proximity to some of these species is wild.
事实上，我们生活的地方与其中一些物种如此接近，这真是太疯狂了。
When I was growing up, not everyone had a dog unless they had the space for it.
在我成长的过程中，并不是每个人都养狗，除非有足够的空间。
Now I feel like dogs are everywhere.
现在我觉得狗无处不在。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It's such an enormous billion-dollar industry to have dogs, and it raises a question that gets us back to some of the happiness work, which is: Is that a good idea, right?
养狗是一个价值数十亿美元的巨大产业，它提出了一个问题，让我们回到一些幸福的工作上，那就是：这是一个好主意，对吧？
All these people are investing their time, their energy, their spaces in dogs.
所有这些人都把他们的时间、精力和空间投入到狗身上。
You could ask the question, do they make us happier?
你可以问这样一个问题：它们让我们更快乐吗？
And I know you have-
我知道你有-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do they?
他们有吗？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
They do.
他们确实这么做了。
Yeah.
是的。
Don't, I'm not going to break everybody's heart, but then we've killed the cat people and the-
别，我不会让每个人都心碎，但我们已经杀了猫人和-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, no, the cat people
不不不，猫人
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
toy dog people.
玩具狗人。
No. Dogs in particular, but pets in general, wind up making us happier.
不会。尤其是狗，但总的来说，宠物最终会让我们更快乐。
Pet owners are statistically happier.
据统计，宠物主人更快乐。
And I think it's for a couple of reasons based on the stuff we just talked about.
根据我们刚才讨论的内容，我认为这是有几个原因的。
Take the behavioral pattern that matters, social connection.
以重要的行为模式、社交关系为例。
For sure, dogs provide that social connection themselves.
当然，狗本身就提供了这种社交联系。
We just talked about they tap into your caregiving system and so on.
我们刚刚谈到他们会利用您的护理系统等等。
But as you talked about in your interactions with bulldog pleading, like bulldog, what was the phrase you used?
但是，正如您在与斗牛犬恳求的互动中谈到的，像斗牛犬一样，您使用的短语是什么？
Or bull-
或者牛-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, was it-
哦，是吗——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
When you see a bulldog and you say bulldog something.
当你看到斗牛犬时，你会说“斗牛犬”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, when I see somebody with a bulldog-
哦，当我看到有人带着斗牛犬时-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I just say, "Excuse me, there's a bulldog tax."
我只是说，“对不起，有斗牛犬税。”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Oh yeah, bulldog tax.
哦，是的，斗牛犬税。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then I pet their bulldog.
然后我抚摸他们的斗牛犬。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Good.
好的。
Let me do that again.
让我再做一次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if you're going to meet a bulldog, just understand they're shaped like a beer keg, so they can't scratch themselves on their hind quarters.
如果你要见到斗牛犬，只需了解它们的形状像啤酒桶，这样它们就不会抓伤自己的后躯。
So if you give them a scratch there, they're like, "Thank you," because it's got to be just awful.
因此，如果你在那里抓伤他们，他们会说“谢谢”，因为那一定很糟糕。
It's like having that scratch in the middle of your back and you can't reach it.
这就像你的背部中间有一个抓痕，但你够不到它。
So-
所以——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
So you do the bulldog tax, and you have this nice social connection with the bulldog, but my guess is, and because you're using verbal language, you also get connected with the person.
因此，您缴纳了斗牛犬税，并且您与斗牛犬建立了良好的社交关系，但我的猜测是，因为您使用口头语言，所以您也与该人建立了联系。
You probably say, "Oh my gosh, what's his name?
你可能会说：“天哪，他叫什么名字？
Oh, when did you get him?" Blah, blah, blah.
哦，你什么时候抓到他的？”巴拉，巴拉，巴拉。
That's chatting with the barista at the coffee shop, right?
那是在咖啡厅和咖啡师聊天吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
That's doing the Nick Epley experiments we just talked about before.
这就是我们之前谈到的尼克·艾普利实验。
Pets wind up bringing us social connection, and one of the pieces of advice if you're feeling lonely is get an animal not just so that the animal will give you some comfort, but, as particularly with a dog, you get to walk that animal and then people talk to you.
宠物最终给我们带来了社交联系，如果你感到孤独，建议之一就是养一只动物，不仅这样动物会给你带来一些安慰，而且，尤其是养狗，你可以遛动物，然后人们会和你说话。
It's much easier to connect with people when you have dogs.
当你养狗时，与人交往会容易得多。
So social connection-
所以社会联系——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a bridge
这是一座桥
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
is huge.
是巨大的。
Second thing is, particularly again for dogs, what are people doing?
第二件事是，特别是对于狗来说，人们在做什么？
They're getting out and walking, right?
他们要出去散步，对吧？
So we're getting some people who never had a lot of physical exercise before are at least getting the kind of walks they need to do in for the dog.
因此，我们让一些以前从未进行过大量体育锻炼的人至少得到了他们需要为狗做的散步。
And even if they won't choose to do it for themselves, they often choose to do it for their dog.
即使他们不会选择为自己做这件事，他们也经常选择为他们的狗做这件事。
So you get exercise in, which is good for physical health, and we haven't talked about, but is enormously good for happiness.
所以你要进行锻炼，这对身体健康有好处，我们还没有谈到，但对幸福感非常有好处。
Meta-analysis showing a half hour of cardio exercise a day is as good as an anti-depression medication for reducing symptoms of depression.
荟萃分析显示，每天半小时的有氧运动对于减轻抑郁症状与抗抑郁药物一样有效。
So just that walk with your dog is great.
所以和你的狗一起散步就很棒了。
But beyond that, I think they help our thought patterns, right?
但除此之外，我认为它们有助于我们的思维模式，对吗？
And this is true for dogs, I think, and cats, right?
我认为对于狗来说也是如此，对猫来说也是如此，对吗？
Where as you were saying, we're wondering what they're doing.
正如你所说，我们想知道他们在做什么。
Sometimes if they're sitting there and we're just petting them, what we're doing is we're sitting there and we're petting them.
有时，如果他们坐在那里，我们只是抚摸他们，我们所做的就是坐在那里，抚摸他们。
So they give us these wonderful sensory experiences, and I think they cause us to be a little bit more present, especially when we're interacting with them.
所以它们给了我们这些美妙的感官体验，我认为它们让我们更加处于当下，尤其是当我们与它们互动时。
When we're interacting with our dogs, unless you're taking the Instagram pictures of the dog, but usually when you're playing with the dog or whatever, you're just there.
当我们与狗互动时，除非你在 Instagram 上拍摄狗的照片，但通常当你与狗玩耍或其他什么时，你就在那里。
You're not on your phone.
你不在手机上。
You're just mindfully experiencing life with your dog.
您只是用心体验与您的狗一起的生活。
Like when you talked about your road trip.
就像你谈论你的公路旅行时一样。
Part of what probably brought you into the present moment, especially if your girlfriend was working, was that the dog was interacting with you.
可能让你进入当下的部分原因是狗正在与你互动，尤其是当你的女朋友正在工作时。
So the dogs help us, not because they're inherently happiness inducing.
所以狗帮助我们，并不是因为它们天生就能带来快乐。
They help us tick these boxes of better behaviors for happiness, better thought patterns for happiness, and they're a delight, so they give us some positive emotion, too.
它们帮助我们勾选这些更好的幸福行为、更好的幸福思维模式，它们是令人愉悦的，所以它们也给我们一些积极的情绪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love all of that.
我喜欢这一切。
I just want to double-click, if it were, on this idea that they can be a bridge for social connection.
如果是的话，我只想双击这个想法，即它们可以成为社交联系的桥梁。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think that's really powerful.
我认为这真的很强大。
A friend of mine who used to smoke cigarettes, who doesn't any longer.
我的一个朋友以前抽烟，现在不抽烟了。
In fact, I remember when I was a postdoc at Stanford, mostly the foreign postdocs, but they used to gather outside and have cigarette breaks all the time.
事实上，我记得我在斯坦福做博士后的时候，大部分都是外国博士后，但他们总是聚集在外面，抽烟休息。
Now you're not allowed to smoke on the medical school campus, and I think probably on the main campus, too.
现在医学院校园内不允许吸烟，我想主校区也可能如此。
Most places you're not allowed to smoke outdoors.
大多数地方都不允许在户外吸烟。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, most universities.
是的，大多数大学。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Because of secondhand smoke, in any case.
无论如何，因为二手烟。
But he said to me, it used to be that before people either knew or fully internalized how bad smoking was, is, that asking for a cigarette or sharing a cigarette side by side with somebody was a way that people engaged in casual interaction.
但他对我说，过去，在人们知道或完全内化吸烟有多糟糕之前，索要一支香烟或与某人并排分享一支香烟是人们进行随意互动的一种方式。
Not just outside of bars, not just to meet potential mates, et cetera, but it was a bridge.
不仅仅是在酒吧之外，不仅仅是为了结识潜在的伴侣等等，但它是一座桥梁。
You could walk up to somebody and say, we just call it bumming a smoke.
你可以走到某人面前说，我们称之为“抽烟”。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You ask for a cigarette, or if someone was smoking, you could go stand by them and you also smoke.
你要一支烟，或者如果有人抽烟，你可以站在他们旁边，你也抽烟。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so it was this terribly health diminishing habit, but it served as a lot of social lubricant.
因此，这是一种严重损害健康的习惯，但它却起到了很大的社交润滑剂的作用。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It also gives you another behavior that we know is really important for happiness, which is time.
它还为您提供了另一种我们知道对幸福非常重要的行为，那就是时间。
There's a lot of social science research on this phenomenon.
关于这一现象有很多社会科学研究。
It's called time affluence, which is the sort of subjective sense that you feel wealthy in time.
这就是所谓的时间富裕，就是一种你感觉时间很富有的主观感觉。
You kind of just have a break, right?
你只是休息一下，对吧？
A smoking break is one of these, right?
吸烟休息就是其中之一，对吧？
You get a break, and often people back in the day when smoking was allowed, one of the ways that you got your breaks, often in not so great workplaces, was you could ask for a smoke break.
你可以休息一下，在允许吸烟的时代，人们休息的方式之一（通常是在不太好的工作场所）就是可以要求抽烟休息。
My mom talks about this.
我妈妈谈到这个。
She was a teacher, educator for a super long time, where you don't get a lot of breaks.
她做了很长一段时间的老师、教育家，没有太多的休息时间。
But back in the '70s, if you were a smoker, they'd let you go outside for 10 minutes, and that was a sort of break, right?
但在 70 年代，如果你是烟民，他们会让你出去 10 分钟，这也是一种休息，对吧？
So I think this other unhealthy habit kind of gave us the opportunity to take breaks, which we know are great for happiness.
所以我认为这另一种不健康的习惯给了我们休息的机会，我们知道这对幸福很有好处。
And so great for happiness that if you don't have any of this so-called time affluence, this sense that you have some free time, if you experience what researchers call time famine, where you feel almost starving for time, it's a huge hit on your wellbeing.
如果你没有任何所谓的时间富裕，即你有一些空闲时间的感觉，如果你经历了研究人员所说的时间饥荒，你感觉几乎缺乏时间，这对你的幸福感来说是一个巨大的打击。
If you self-report in these surveys being time famished, so, "I don't have time to meet up with my friends.
如果您在这些调查中自我报告时间紧迫，那么，“我没有时间与朋友见面。
I never have time for the stuff I want to do." That's as big a hit on your wellbeing as if you self-report being unemployed.
我从来没有时间做我想做的事情。”这对你的健康造成的影响就像你自我报告失业一样。
Listeners, if you have a job and you lost it tomorrow, you'd probably think of that as a big hit on your happiness.
听众们，如果你有一份工作，但明天就失业了，你可能会认为这对你的幸福感造成了很大的打击。
Just not having any time for the little breaks in life is as bad.
没有时间享受生活中的短暂休息也同样糟糕。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
And this gets back to our earlier discussion about money and happiness, which is researcher Ashley Whillans at Harvard Business School has kind of pushed the idea that what's going on with these low income folks who have a real hit on happiness, right?
这又回到了我们之前关于金钱和幸福的讨论，哈佛商学院的研究员阿什利·惠兰斯（Ashley Whillans）提出了这样一个观点：这些对幸福有真正影响的低收入人群到底发生了什么，对吧？
Not having a high income hurts your happiness.
收入不高会损害你的幸福感。
Her theory is a lot of that actually has to do with time, because if you have a really low income, you don't have a car to get to work, so you're taking the bus and it's taking you forever.
她的理论很大程度上与时间有关，因为如果你的收入非常低，你就没有车去上班，所以你要乘坐公共汽车，而它会永远带你去上班。
You're working multiple jobs, right?
你身兼数职，对吧？
That a lot of the reason that money affects happiness and not having money affects happiness is that it co-varies with not having time, and the real hit on our happiness is just the time part more so than the money part.
金钱影响幸福感和没有金钱影响幸福感的很多原因是它与没有时间共同变化，而对我们幸福感的真正影响只是时间部分而不是金钱部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we need to be in pursuit of things.
所以我们需要去追求事物。
We need to work.
我们需要工作。
But we also need some free time.
但我们也需要一些空闲时间。
We can't have too much free time or too much work, basically.
基本上，我们不能有太多的空闲时间或太多的工作。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the sweet spot is often hard to maintain or even know what that sweet spot is.
而最佳点通常很难维持，甚至很难知道最佳点是什么。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I think this term time affluence and what researchers mean by it is helpful here, right?
我认为时间富裕这个术语以及研究人员的意思在这里很有帮助，对吗？
It's the subjective sense that you have some free time.
这是你有一些空闲时间的主观感觉。
It's not I objectively go into your calendar, and you show me how many open blocks there are.
并不是我客观地进入你的日历，然后你告诉我有多少个空闲的区块。
It's your sense that you have a break.
这是你的感觉，你休息了。
And this provides an interesting hack that we can use to get more of it, right?
这提供了一个有趣的技巧，我们可以用它来获得更多，对吗？
Which is that we can kind of just frame things as having more time.
也就是说，我们可以将事情定义为拥有更多时间。
Because sometimes when you get a break that you don't expect, it can feel like a lot.
因为有时当你得到意想不到的休息时，你会感觉很多。
I teach this class about happiness on Yale's campus, and I talk about time affluence.
我在耶鲁大学的校园里教这门课关于幸福，我谈论时间的富裕。
It's one of the topics in my class, and I always felt that was really ironic because our young people today, especially at elite college institutions, are so time famished.
这是我课堂上的主题之一，我一直觉得这真的很讽刺，因为我们今天的年轻人，尤其是精英大学机构的年轻人，非常缺乏时间。
They're running from thing to thing and have a million extracurriculars and so on.
他们从一件事跑到另一件事，还有一百万个课外活动等等。
So I feel weird, like I'm going to lecture them for an hour on time affluence and tell them all these studies.
所以我感觉很奇怪，就像我要给他们讲一个小时关于时间富裕的知识，并告诉他们所有这些研究。
And so what I did was, in the syllabus it said there's a lecture on time affluence, and they come to class, and I have my teaching assistants that are handing out little flyers that say, "Today's lecture is about time affluence, and to teach you what that is, I'm going to give you some.
所以我所做的是，在教学大纲中说有一个关于时间富裕的讲座，他们来上课，我的助教分发小传单，上面写着：“今天的讲座是关于时间富裕的，为了教你什么是时间富裕，我会给你一些。
No class today." So you didn't know.
今天没课。”所以你不知道。
You walked to class, now you got a free hour and a half, and it just happened to be one of these unusually warm, California-esque days in New Haven, where it's sunny out.
你步行去上课，现在你有一个半小时的空闲时间，而这恰好是纽黑文异常温暖、加利福尼亚式的日子之一，那里阳光明媚。
And so kids got a bubble tea with their friend, or some of them went on a hike near the local state park.
于是孩子们和他们的朋友一起喝了一杯珍珠奶茶，或者他们中的一些人去当地州立公园附近徒步旅行。
And one of the students, I remember, burst into tears when she got this form, and she said, "This is the first free hour and a half I've had for like the last three months."
我记得，其中一个学生在收到这张表格时泪流满面，她说：“这是我近三个月来第一次有一个半小时的空闲时间。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
They're that stressed.
他们压力那么大
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
They're that stressed.
他们压力那么大
But what I find interesting about this is I didn't give them a month off vacation, right?
但我觉得有趣的是我没有给他们一个月的假期，对吧？
I gave them an hour back unexpectedly, and it felt like it was huge.
我出乎意料地给了他们一个小时的时间，感觉就像是巨大的。
And Andrew, I don't know your schedule, but sometimes my schedule can be so overwhelmed and so packed that there's a half hour meeting that gets canceled.
安德鲁，我不知道你的日程安排，但有时我的日程安排可能会非常拥挤，以至于有一个半小时的会议被取消。
I'm just like, "Oh." And the relief, I feel like I could learn a new language.
我只是想，“哦。”令人欣慰的是，我觉得我可以学习一门新语言了。
You just feel like, but it's a half hour, right?
你只是觉得，但已经有半个小时了，对吧？
And I think this is a hack we can use for ourselves, right?
我认为这是我们可以为自己使用的黑客，对吧？
Listeners, right now, go in your calendar a few months from now and just take months, months away, pick an hour period and just write in, "Huberman Lab time affluence," and just don't put anything in that.
听众们，现在，在几个月后的日历中，选择几个月、几个月的时间，选择一个小时，然后写上“休伯曼实验室的时间富裕”，然后不要在其中添加任何内容。
And my guess is when you get to that hour that you've scheduled months later, you'll just be like, "Oh my gosh, this feels great." We can kind of gift ourselves these little windows of time.
我的猜测是，当你到达几个月后安排的那个时间时，你会说，“天哪，这感觉太棒了。”我们可以给自己一些小小的时间之窗作为礼物。
Another hack we can do is to make good use of the free time we do have, and this is kind of a puzzle of something that I found unexpected when I saw the data on this, which is that it turns out we actually have more free time now than we did Like 10, 15 years ago, if you add it up.
我们可以做的另一个技巧是充分利用我们现有的空闲时间，这是一个令人困惑的问题，当我看到这方面的数据时，我发现了意想不到的事情，事实证明，如果你把它加起来，我们现在实际上比 10、15 年前有更多的空闲时间。
Not just kind of post-COVID, but in general, we've been getting more free time.
不仅是在新冠疫情之后，而且总的来说，我们有了更多的空闲时间。
However, the free time we have is cut up differently.
然而，我们的空闲时间却有着不同的分配方式。
It's in smaller chunks.
它是更小的块。
It's like five minutes when that Zoom meeting ends a little early, or 10 minutes if your kid falls asleep early, or whatever it is.
如果 Zoom 会议提前结束，就需要 5 分钟；如果您的孩子早点睡着，就需要 10 分钟，或者其他什么。
And we don't think it's that much, so we just kind of blow it.
我们认为没有那么多，所以我们就搞砸了。
But if you add it up, it winds up more than people in past decades have had, and probably good time that we could use for stuff.
但如果你把它加起来，它最终会比过去几十年的人们所经历的还要多，而且可能是我们可以用来做事的好时光。
And so these little chunks of time are what the journalist Bridget Schulte calls time confetti, which I think is such a great image of it.
因此，这些小块的时间就是记者布里奇特·舒尔特所说的时间五彩纸屑，我认为这是一个很好的形象。
It's these little five minutes here and there, but you can do a lot with those minutes if you add them up.
就是这短短的五分钟，但如果你把它们加起来，你可以用这些分钟做很多事情。
We just have to use them a little bit more intentionally, right?
我们只需要更有意识地使用它们，对吧？
And that could be for some of the stuff you talk about on this podcast a lot, like do the seven-minute "New York Times" workout, do the kinds of things we're talking about.
这可能适用于你在这个播客上经常谈论的一些事情，比如做七分钟的《纽约时报》锻炼，做我们正在谈论的事情。
That's the time you text your friend and have a delight or-
那是你给你的朋友发短信并享受快乐的时候，或者-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Get some sunlight, man
晒晒太阳吧伙计
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
get some sunlight.
得到一些阳光。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mini walk.
迷你步行。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Walk outside, right?
出去走走吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Walk in sunlight.
在阳光下行走。
Huge.
巨大的。
Or just even face the sun.
或者只是面对太阳。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Problem is, what do we do when we get the time confetti?
问题是，当我们得到时间五彩纸屑时我们该怎么办？
Or what do I do when I'm in a bad moment?
或者当我心情不好的时候我该怎么办？
Pull out our phone, check our email, scroll through.
拿出我们的手机，查看我们的电子邮件，滚动浏览。
It's like, again, this sort of NutraSweet dopamine hit that's not being effective.
再次，就像这种 NutraSweet 多巴胺刺激剂没有效果一样。
So if you feel really overwhelmed and you objectively don't have a lot of time, remember that the time confetti that you already have, it's already sitting there, can be really valuable if you use it well.
因此，如果你真的感到不知所措，而且客观上你没有很多时间，请记住，你已经拥有的时间五彩纸屑，它已经坐在那里，如果你好好利用它，它会非常有价值。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Super important, because I think the filling of those spaces with what I love the analogy to NutraSweet or artificial sweeteners is it's going to taste like it's providing some sort of nourishment, but it's probably just creating a more sense of craving and want at some level.
非常重要，因为我认为用我喜欢的 NutraSweet 或人工甜味剂类比来填充这些空间，它尝起来就像提供了某种营养，但它可能只是在某种程度上创造了一种更多的渴望和想要的感觉。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Would really like to talk about reward circuitry, just thematically.
我真的很想谈谈奖励电路，只是主题性的。
Listeners of this podcast, and even if they've never heard one of these podcasts before, are probably familiar with the word dopamine.
该播客的听众，即使他们以前从未听过这些播客，也可能熟悉“多巴胺”这个词。
We've talked about it a bit.
我们已经谈过一点了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And as we were talking about earlier, everything about the dopamine reward circuitry, which of course includes other chemicals too, is based on prior experience relative to current experience, relative to anticipated outcome.
正如我们之前讨论的，有关多巴胺奖励回路的一切（当然也包括其他化学物质）都是基于相对于当前经验、相对于预期结果的先前经验。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's sometimes referred to as reward prediction error.
有时称为奖励预测错误。
Think something great's going to happen, something great happens, great.
认为伟大的事情将会发生，伟大的事情发生了，伟大的事情发生。
Think something great's going to happen, something less than great happens, sucks way more-
认为伟大的事情将会发生，但不那么伟大的事情发生了，那就更糟糕了——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
than you would anticipate.
比你预期的要多。
Think that something not so great is going to happen, something so-so or great happens, huge reward.
认为一些不那么伟大的事情将会发生，一些一般或伟大的事情发生，巨大的回报。
Positive novelty and surprise brings the biggest rewards.
积极的新奇和惊喜带来最大的回报。
And this is what I would like to kind of paint as the backdrop.
这就是我想画的背景。
Think about it as a conceptual mural behind us as I ask the question, maybe, just maybe, we're not supposed to be happy all the time, or maybe even all that often.
当我问这个问题时，把它想象成我们身后的概念性壁画，也许，只是也许，我们不应该一直快乐，甚至不应该经常快乐。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And when we're feeling not so great or even lousy, provided it's not dangerous levels of depression, maybe we should frame that as the backdrop for the greater happiness that will come when we start to emerge from that lousy state.
当我们感觉不那么好甚至很糟糕时，只要不是达到危险的抑郁程度，也许我们应该将其作为背景，当我们开始摆脱那种糟糕的状态时，更大的幸福就会到来。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, some people could say, well, now you're just kind of using neurobiology to twist around what would otherwise be a lousy experience and tell me that it's good for me.
现在，有些人可能会说，好吧，现在你只是利用神经生物学来扭转本来会很糟糕的经历，并告诉我这对我有好处。
No. What I'm trying to say is people want to be happy.
不，我想说的是人们想要快乐。
I think we'd all love to be happy all the time, but we're not wired to be happy all the time.
我想我们都希望一直快乐，但我们并不注定要一直快乐。
And maybe the feelings of happiness can't exist unless they have contrast with these neutral or negative emotion states that we call feeling lousy, feeling anxious, et cetera.
也许幸福的感觉不可能存在，除非它们与我们所说的感觉糟糕、感到焦虑等中性或消极的情绪状态形成鲜明对比。
And I realize I can pose long questions, but I just want to provide a little bit more context for the moment, which is that every circuit in the brain, our ability to see light, literally, depends on the contrast with the so-called off circuitry, which is the circuitry in our visual system that perceives darkness.
我意识到我可以提出很长的问题，但我只想暂时提供更多背景信息，即大脑中的每个回路，我们看到光的能力，从字面上看，取决于与所谓的关闭电路的对比，关闭电路是我们视觉系统中感知黑暗的电路。
We need contrast to be able to see light.
我们需要对比才能看到光。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Everything's push/pull.
一切都是推/拉。
Hunger, satiety.
饥饿、饱足。
Cold, heat perception.
冷觉、热觉。
Go, no-go.
去吧，不去。
It's all push/pull circuitry in there.
里面全是推/拉电路。
Why wouldn't happiness have a push/pull relationship with unhappiness, or at least neutral affect?
为什么幸福不会与不幸福存在推/拉关系，或者至少是中性影响？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I think it does.
嗯，我认为确实如此。
You're giving a neurobiological explanation for what psychologists in this field of positive psychology have referred to as what's called hedonic adaptation, which is a fancy way of saying we get used to stuff.
你对积极心理学领域的心理学家所说的所谓的享乐适应给出了神经生物学的解释，这是我们习惯事物的一种奇特方式。
You grab the delicious ice cream cone, or we eat a delicious salad, really healthy, but it's tasty.
你拿美味的蛋卷冰淇淋，或者我们吃美味的沙拉，非常健康，但很好吃。
Healthy, tasty salad, right?
健康又美味的沙拉，对吧？
Start eating it.
开始吃吧。
First bite is like, "This is awesome.
第一口就像是，“这太棒了。
I'm so into it.
我很喜欢它。
It's great." Bite number two, a little bit less awesome.
太棒了。”第二口，有点不太棒。
By the 10th bite, it's not because you're full or you're feeling disgusted, it's just like that sensory experience, you've gotten used to it, right?
到了第十口，并不是因为你吃饱了，也不是因为你觉得恶心，只是那种感官体验，你已经习惯了，对吧？
It's just no longer as interesting.
只是不再那么有趣了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or walk into a bakery.
或者走进一家面包店。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm, smells amazing.
嗯，闻起来棒极了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Spend five minutes in the bakery, 10 minutes in the bakery, you attenuate, you habituate.
在面包店呆五分钟，在面包店呆十分钟，你就会减弱，你就会习惯。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Which is great.
这太棒了。
You wouldn't maybe want to be firing, your neurons would get all exhausted and stuff.
你可能不想被激发，你的神经元会变得精疲力尽之类的。
But it's in one way terrible for happiness.
但从某种程度上来说，这对幸福来说是可怕的。
In another way, very good for happiness, but in a major way terrible for happiness, which is the following.
换句话说，这对幸福非常有利，但在很大程度上对幸福来说却很糟糕，如下所示。
Every good thing in life, if it sticks around, becomes kind of boring over time.
生活中的每一件美好的事情，如果持续存在，随着时间的推移，就会变得有点无聊。
You're just kind of used to it.
你只是有点习惯了。
I use the example sometimes of the first time your partner said, "I love you," or if you had a kid, the first time your kid said, "Mommy" or "Daddy," that feels amazing, right?
我有时会用你的伴侣第一次说“我爱你”的例子，或者如果你有一个孩子，你的孩子第一次说“妈妈”或“爸爸”，那感觉棒极了，对吧？
But last week, my husband said, "I love you." It's like, whatever.
但上周，我丈夫说：“我爱你。”就好像，无论如何。
I'm just used to it, right?
我只是习惯了，对吧？
You know last week when your kid was like, "I love you, Mommy," you're like you don't care, right?
你知道上周当你的孩子说“我爱你，妈妈”时，你就好像不在乎，对吧？
The most amazing thing in life, if it gets repeated, just becomes boring.
生命中最奇妙的事情，如果重复，就会变得无聊。
And that sucks because you like the most amazing things in life to kind of keep being awesome.
这很糟糕，因为你喜欢生活中最令人惊奇的事情，以便保持出色。
It's pretty sad that we don't have it, right?
很遗憾我们没有它，对吧？
This has a flip side, though, which is very good for happiness, hedonic adaptation.
不过，这也有不利的一面，这对于幸福、享乐适应非常有好处。
Which is the most terrible thing in life can happen And over time you get used to that too.
这是生命中可能发生的最可怕的事情，随着时间的推移，你也会习惯这一点。
So your partner breaks up with you, you find out you have a chronic disease.
当你的伴侣与你分手时，你发现自己患有慢性病。
Just something really bad happens.
只是发生了一些非常糟糕的事情。
Day one when you find out that piece of information, it is awful.
当你第一天发现这条信息时，感觉很糟糕。
But day two, yeah, it's still awful, but that's just your life, and then over time it kind of gets better.
但是第二天，是的，它仍然很糟糕，但这就是你的生活，然后随着时间的推移，它会变得更好。
There's a very famous study in the field of happiness science that tried to look at this with people who experienced a really great event, in theory, winning the lottery, and people who experienced really bad events, real events in life, becoming paraplegic.
在幸福科学领域有一项非常著名的研究，试图观察那些经历过真正伟大事件的人，理论上，中了彩票，以及经历过真正糟糕事件的人，生活中真实的事件，成为截瘫的人。
So you used to be able to walk and now you've lost the use of your legs.
所以你以前还能走路，现在你的腿已经不能用了。
You survey happiness in people who haven't had these experiences, and you ask, "Predict how bad it would be to have this." And people say, "Day one of winning the lottery would be really great, and a year from now, a year from that point, winning the lottery would still be just as great.
你调查了那些没有经历过这些经历的人的幸福感，然后你问：“预测一下如果有这种经历会有多糟糕。”人们说，“赢得彩票的第一天真的很棒，一年后，一年后，赢得彩票仍然会同样很棒。
It'd be awesome." Same thing with paraplegic.
那就太棒了。”截瘫者也是如此。
The moment you become paraplegic, that day is a really crappy Thursday, but a year from then it's still just as crappy.
当你截瘫的那一刻，那天真是一个糟糕的星期四，但一年后它仍然一样糟糕。
And what you find is people, on the day you become paraplegic or the day you win your lottery, that is a big shift in your contrast.
你发现人们，在你截瘫的那一天或者你中彩票的那一天，你的对比就会发生很大的转变。
The day you win the lottery is an awesome Thursday.
你中奖的那一天是一个很棒的星期四。
The day you become paraplegic is terrible.
你截瘫的那一天是可怕的。
But a year from then, it turns out your happiness is no different from baseline from the day before that event happened, statistically.
但一年后，从统计数据来看，你的幸福感与该事件发生前一天的基线没有什么不同。
And that is shocking.
这令人震惊。
I know these results, I can quote the paper, but if you told me today, "Laura, you walk out of the studio, you get hit by a car, you're paraplegic.
我知道这些结果，我可以引用这篇论文，但如果你今天告诉我，“劳拉，你走出工作室，你被车撞了，你截瘫了。
How would you feel in 2026?" I'd be like, "My life is still really crummy." But statistically, that's just not going to happen.
2026 年你感觉如何？”我会说，“我的生活仍然很糟糕。”但从统计数据来看，这种情况是不会发生的。
What does that mean?
这意味着什么？
That's kind of good news about hedonic adaptation for happiness.
这是关于享乐适应幸福的好消息。
That means the worst thing possible could happen to you, and you have all these processes that are just going to get used to it over time, and it's going to be okay.
这意味着最糟糕的事情可能会发生在你身上，而且你拥有所有这些流程，随着时间的推移，你会习惯它，一切都会好起来的。
And I think this is an important aspect or a psychology that we forget.
我认为这是我们忘记的一个重要方面或心理学。
I think sometimes we have opportunities to do things in life that are a little risky, something we might try out that we might screw up or fail at, or that we'll be bad at at first, and we don't do it because we're scared.
我认为有时我们有机会在生活中做一些有点冒险的事情，我们可能会尝试一些可能会搞砸或失败的事情，或者我们一开始会很糟糕，但我们不这样做是因为我们害怕。
We're making a prediction like, "Oh, well if I failed or if I screwed that up, I'd just be unhappy." But actually, all these mechanisms that we have of hedonic adaptation means those things aren't going to affect you for as long as you think.
我们做出这样的预测：“哦，如果我失败了或者搞砸了，我就会不高兴。”但实际上，我们拥有的所有这些享乐适应机制意味着这些事情不会像你想象的那样影响你。
So I think the contrast hypothesis about happiness is real.
所以我认为关于幸福的对比假设是真实的。
Good things don't stay good things over time, but the bad things don't either.
好东西不会随着时间的推移而保持好状态，但坏东西也不会。
But we still want the good things to stay good over time, and so that raises a question of how we can do that.
但我们仍然希望美好的事物能够随着时间的推移而保持良好状态，因此这就提出了我们如何才能做到这一点的问题。
And Liz Dunn, whose work I've mentioned before, she likes to use this phrase that scarcity engineers happiness.
还有莉兹·邓恩（Liz Dunn），我之前提到过她的作品，她喜欢用“稀缺创造幸福”这句话。
One thing we can do is space out the good things in life.
我们能做的一件事就是把生活中美好的事物分开。
So if I was having that really delicious, healthy salad with the avocado and whatever, if I had that every day, it would stop being good.
所以，如果我吃的是真正美味、健康的鳄梨沙拉之类的，如果我每天都吃的话，它就不再好吃了。
But if I had it very infrequently, it would still be good every time I come back to it.
但如果我很少有这样的经历，那么每次我回来时仍然会很好。
And so sometimes, oddly, the way we make ourselves happier is to remove positive experiences, especially extreme positive experiences, and space them out so we can come back to them over time.
因此，有时，奇怪的是，我们让自己更快乐的方法就是消除积极的经历，尤其是极端的积极经历，并将它们分开，以便我们可以随着时间的推移再次回到它们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I definitely agree with that.
我绝对同意这一点。
I also, and forgive me folks, but I think I understand why dogs are so awesome.
我也，请原谅我，但我想我明白为什么狗如此棒。
They don't attenuate to reward.
他们不会削弱奖励。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You tell them they're going to get this little piece of amazing whatever, beef jerky or something, and they're like, "Yes!" And then second trial.
你告诉他们他们会得到一小块令人惊奇的东西，牛肉干什么的，他们就会说，“是的！”然后二审。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"Yes!" Third trial.
“是啊！”第三次审判。
"Yes!" Presumably at some point they reach satiety or fatigue.
“是的！”想必在某个时刻他们会感到饱足或疲劳。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there's something about their reward pathways that they don't seem to attenuate much.
但他们的奖励途径中有些东西似乎并没有减弱太多。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
It's interesting, yeah.
很有趣，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if there's feedback to us on that, it's like, "Okay.
如果我们收到反馈，我们会说：“好吧。
It's great." They'll keep delighting in the simple little things it seems like almost as much as the first time.
太棒了。”他们会继续对看似简单的小事感到高兴，就像第一次一样。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We are not like that.
我们不是那样的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
It's interesting.
这很有趣。
No, to my knowledge, people haven't studied hedonic adaptation in dogs, but it's a really good question.
不，据我所知，人们还没有研究过狗的享乐适应，但这是一个非常好的问题。
But we are not like that for most things.
但我们在大多数事情上并非如此。
And this sucks.
这很糟糕。
It's also the case that in addition to getting used to stuff over time, it's also showing a different feature, which is the sort of more particular contrast feature you're talking about.
还有一种情况是，除了随着时间的推移而习惯之外，它还表现出不同的特征，这就是你所说的那种更特殊的对比特征。
So over time we habituate.
所以随着时间的推移我们就习惯了。
That's one neural mechanism.
这是一种神经机制。
But another is the one that you mentioned, which is about the contrast.
但另一个就是你提到的，这是关于对比的。
And that's what you see both of them, say, in the light perception.
这就是你在光感知中看到的两者。
If I show you the same light over time, you're going to habituate.
如果随着时间的推移我向你展示同样的光线，你就会习惯的。
That's hedonic adaptation.
这就是享乐适应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For folks listening, it literally disappears.
对于听的人来说，它实际上消失了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If I set up the right experiment, Russ and Karen Devalois at Berkeley years ago did these beautiful experiments.
如果我的实验正确的话，伯克利大学的 Russ 和 Karen Devalois 几年前就做过这些漂亮的实验。
You look at a grading of light projected onto a wall, and if you can stabilize the eyes so that they're not moving around, it literally will disappear.
你看着投射到墙上的分级光线，如果你能稳定眼睛，不让它们四处移动，它就会消失。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And same thing with an odor.
同样的事情还有气味。
Same thing with touch.
触摸也是如此。
Like I wasn't thinking about my contact with the chair.
就像我没有考虑与椅子的接触一样。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
And same thing with happiness and the deliciousness of salad.
幸福和沙拉的美味也是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Same thing with happiness.
幸福也是如此。
Habituation, attenuation, these are technical terms when you really get down into it.
习惯、衰减，当你真正深入了解时，这些都是技术术语。
And the push-pull antagonism between light and dark, this smell, yes/no, on/off, push, all of it.
还有光明与黑暗之间的推拉对抗，这种气味，是/否，开/关，推，所有这些。
Go, no go.
走吧，不走。
Every single aspect of the nervous system functions this way.
神经系统的每个方面都是这样运作的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The flexor-extensor in the musculoskeletal system.
肌肉骨骼系统中的屈伸肌。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But that gets to maybe what I would think of as different.
但这也许就是我所认为的不同之处。
So hedonic adaptation is the same stimulus over time.
因此，随着时间的推移，享乐适应是相同的刺激。
Almost like habituation.
几乎就像习惯一样。
There's a different thing that happens when you get what you might call a contrast.
当你得到所谓的对比时，就会发生不同的事情。
And there's all kinds of visual illusions that function on this.
各种各样的视觉错觉都在起作用。
If you've ever seen the one where it's like is it the same color over here or over here?
如果你见过这样的东西，这里的颜色和这里的颜色是一样的吗？
We could throw this on your show page to show people.
我们可以将其放在您的展示页面上以向人们展示。
And it's like, "Oh, it looks different." It's like, no. That's because of the contrast between the two things.
就像，“哦，看起来不一样。”就像，不。这是因为两件事之间的对比。
You see something that's really bright over here, it makes something else look a little darker.
你在这里看到的东西非常亮，它使其他东西看起来有点暗。
That's a different negative effect on our happiness a lot of the time.
很多时候，这对我们的幸福感有不同的负面影响。
This is the comparison effect.
这就是对比效果。
This is like my $50 million seems kind of crappy because I hang out with people who have $100 million.
这就像我的 5000 万美元看起来有点蹩脚，因为我和那些拥有 1 亿美元的人在一起。
Objectively, I have a tremendous amount of money, but I feel bad because I'm comparing against something else.
客观地说，我有很多钱，但我感觉很糟糕，因为我正在与其他东西进行比较。
And so oftentimes when we're evaluating different rewards, we're comparing them against what other people had or what we've had in the past, and that means that being in an objectively good situation might feel really crappy if you just have somebody else that has a slightly better objectively good situation.
很多时候，当我们评估不同的奖励时，我们会将它们与其他人所拥有的或我们过去所拥有的进行比较，这意味着，如果你只有其他人的客观情况稍微好一点，那么处于客观良好的情况可能会让人感觉很糟糕。
My favorite example of this actually comes from the sports world.
我最喜欢的例子实际上来自体育界。
So researchers asked this interesting question like how happy are you when you win an Olympic medal?
因此研究人员提出了这个有趣的问题，比如当你赢得奥运会奖牌时你有多高兴？
You're on the stand, you won an Olympic medal.
你站在看台上，你赢得了奥运会奖牌。
And also, who's happiest?
还有，谁最幸福？
So Gold medalist is up there, best in the world.
所以金牌得主就在那里，是世界上最好的。
You might assume they're the happiest, right?
你可能会认为他们是最幸福的，对吧？
And they are.
他们确实如此。
They're smiling.
他们在微笑。
Researchers analyze this by looking at facial expressions and kind of code the muscles and so on.
研究人员通过观察面部表情和肌肉编码等来分析这一点。
But it turns out they're not the happiest, right?
但事实证明他们并不是最幸福的，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Who's the happiest?
谁最幸福？
Well, let's look at the silver medalist.
好吧，让我们看看银牌得主。
Are they happiest?
他们是最幸福的吗？
No. In fact, actually, if you code their facial muscles, they're showing expressions like contempt, deep sadness.
不。事实上，如果你对他们的面部肌肉进行编码，他们会表现出轻蔑、深切悲伤等表情。
It's the same expression you'd make if your parent died or a real terrible grief moment.
如果你的父母去世或者经历了真正可怕的悲伤时刻，你也会做出同样的表情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is the, I don't adhere to this, but this is the "second place is first loser"-
这就是，我不坚持这个，但这就是“第二名是第一名失败者”——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
kind of mindset.
一种心态。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Because the idea is who's your major comparison point if you're in silver?
因为这个想法是，如果你是白银，谁是你的主要比较点？
You know, .2 seconds or something, you would've gotten gold.
你知道，0.2 秒左右，你就会获得金牌。
And you're not feeling objectively like you're the second-best on the planet.
而且你并没有客观地感觉自己是这个星球上第二好的人。
You beat all but one of billions of people on the planet.
你打败了地球上数十亿人中除了一个人之外的所有人。
No, you just feel terrible.
不，你只是感觉很糟糕。
So that's silver medalist.
所以这是银牌得主。
But what's going on with the bronze medalist, right?
但铜牌得主怎么了，对吧？
There's another person on the stand.
看台上还有一个人。
What's their comparison point?
他们的比较点是什么？
It's not gold.
这不是金子。
They were multiple people, multiple seconds away.
他们有很多人，相距几秒钟。
Their salient comparison is like, "By the grace of God, I'm up here at all.
他们的显着比较是，“靠着上帝的恩典，我才来到这里。
Almost two seconds the other direction, I would've never gotten up here." And when you analyze the bronze medalist's facial expressions, they're sometimes even happier than the gold medalist.
另一个方向差不多两秒钟，我就永远不会到这里了。”当你分析铜牌获得者的面部表情时，他们有时甚至比金牌获得者更快乐。
Definitely happier than the silver, who's objectively better, but sometimes even happier than the gold medalist because they're like, "Oh, relative to my comparison point, I'm doing amazing."
绝对比银牌更快乐，银牌客观上更好，但有时甚至比金牌得主更快乐，因为他们会说，“哦，相对于我的比较点，我做得很棒。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the gold medalist is expected to get gold the next year, or else it's pure reward prediction error-
而金牌得主明年有望获得金牌，否则就是纯粹的奖励预测错误——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
especially if they internalize the expectations of the audience-
尤其是如果他们将观众的期望内化的话——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the spectators, excuse me, because if they come back the next year and they're second or third on the podium or not on the podium, it's seen as falling from a higher place.
观众们，对不起，因为如果他们明年回来，如果他们在领奖台上排名第二或第三，或者没有登上领奖台，那就被视为从更高的地方掉下来。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
This is a point that I make with my Ivy League students who've been perfect in their grades and perfect at everything to get into a place like Yale, which is like turns out that's a terrible recipe for happiness.
这是我对我的常春藤盟校学生提出的观点，他们的成绩非常完美，在一切方面都很完美，可以进入耶鲁这样的地方，但事实证明，这是幸福的可怕秘诀。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The only way forward is stay there, down, or create a new upward-
前进的唯一出路就是留在那里，向下，或者创造一个新的向上——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Stay there, you don't notice, right?
呆在那里，你没有注意到，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Because you're habituated to it, just like the pattern down feels really bad.
因为你已经习惯了，就像这种模式下来的感觉真的很糟糕。
Like that's a terrible comparison.
这是一个可怕的比较。
I often play my students that DJ Khaled song, "All I Do Is Win." All I do is win, win, win.
我经常给我的学生播放 DJ Khaled 的歌曲“All I Do Is Win”。我所做的就是赢，赢，赢。
And I was like, all you do is win, win, win would be a terrible way to experience success in life because you'd just stop noticing it over time if you won.
我当时想，你所做的就是赢，赢，赢将是体验生活成功的一种可怕的方式，因为随着时间的推移，如果你赢了，你就会不再注意到它。
And that's messed up because it means when you finally hit the success that you were striving for, if you just stay at that level, just stops being good, which sucks.
这很糟糕，因为这意味着当你最终实现你所追求的成功时，如果你只是停留在那个水平上，就不再优秀，这很糟糕。
And so that raises a different question, which is what is a hack that we can do to get away from that?
这就提出了一个不同的问题，我们可以采取什么黑客手段来摆脱这种情况？
One is to not look for the silver lining but to look for the bronze lining, ba-dum-bum, which is you kind of think of reference points that are-
一种是不要寻找一线希望，而是寻找青铜一线，ba-dum-bum，这是你想到的参考点是-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
lower than you-
比你低-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love a good conceptual pun-
我喜欢一个很好的概念双关语——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Ba-dum.
巴杜姆。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
especially when it's framed in an experiment, so thank you for that.
尤其是当它被纳入实验时，所以谢谢你。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It was like for like science experiments-
这就像科学实验一样——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, that's especially gratifying to me.
不，这让我特别高兴。
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
good.
好。
Yes.
是的。
So look for the bronze lining, which means find a reference point that's not as good.
因此，寻找青铜衬里，这意味着找到一个不太好的参考点。
And for most of the things you're comparing, whether that's your looks, your fitness level, your finances, you can look and find somebody that's doing worse than you.
对于您要比较的大多数事情，无论是您的外表、您的健康水平还是您的财务状况，您都可以寻找并找到比您做得更差的人。
Another great hack for this, and this is more one that's a kind of a hack for hedonic adaptation, getting used to stuff, actually comes from the ancient traditions.
另一个伟大的黑客，这更多的是一种享乐适应的黑客，习惯的东西，实际上来自古老的传统。
I know you talk a lot about the smart folks back in the day who came up with this stuff, right?
我知道你经常谈论当时想出这个东西的聪明人，对吧？
This is one from the Stoic tradition, a practice called negative visualization.
这是斯多葛派传统的一种做法，称为消极想象。
So Stoics like Marcus Aurelius thought when you wake up in the morning, you should have the following thought pattern.
因此，像马库斯·奥勒留这样的斯多葛学派认为，当你早上醒来时，你应该有以下思维模式。
You should think, "Today I will lose my success.
你应该想：“今天我将失去我的成功。
I will be exiled.
我将被流放。
I'll lose my partner.
我会失去我的伙伴。
I will lose my health.
我会失去健康。
I won't be able to walk." It doesn't say ruminate on that for forever, but just like a little and then stop and say, "Ha.
我将无法行走。”它并没有说要永远思考这一点，而是说稍微思考一下，然后停下来说：“哈。
I'm not exiled.
我没有被放逐。
I still have my success.
我仍然有我的成功。
I still have my partner," and so on.
我还有我的伴侣，”等等。
This is a technique called negative visualization, where you just imagine, you don't have to live it in real life, you just imagine you lose something.
这是一种称为消极想象的技术，你只是想象，你不必在现实生活中生活，你只是想象你失去了一些东西。
If you've ever lost something you're hedonically adapted to, you know how quickly you recognize the value of it.
如果你曾经失去过一些你已经习惯于享乐的东西，你就会知道你能多快地认识到它的价值。
This happens to me with my phone all the time.
我的手机经常出现这种情况。
I'm a chronic phone loser, and I'm like, "Oh my God, my phone is gone.
我是一个长期失去手机的人，我想，“天哪，我的手机不见了。
I left it in the airport.
我把它落在机场了。
All my contacts are there." And then I'm like, "Oh, it's in the car." You have this, "I love my phone." Like, "It's so valuable to me."
我所有的联系方式都在那里。”然后我想，“哦，它在车里。”你可以这样说：“我喜欢我的手机。”就像，“这对我来说太有价值了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's that line in Pulp Fiction where he says, what is it?
《低俗小说》中有一句台词，他说，这是什么？
At some point, I think it was Travolta says something, someone will know it, where finding it almost made losing it worth it.
在某些时候，我认为特拉沃尔塔说了些什么，有人会知道，找到它几乎让失去它变得值得。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because you appreciate it in a way that you didn't before because-
因为你以前所未有的方式欣赏它，因为——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it was taken away from you.
它被从你身边夺走了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
And that sucks to really lose your phone.
丢失手机真是太糟糕了。
Sometimes, in my case, you really lost the phone.
有时候，就我而言，你真的丢了手机。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But negative visualization, you don't have to do that.
但消极想象，你不必这样做。
You just use your imagination, right?
你只要发挥你的想象力，对吧？
And so if you're listening right now and you have a kid, let's do this negative visualization.
所以如果你现在正在听并且你有一个孩子，让我们做这个消极的想象。
The last time you saw your kid was the last time you ever saw them.
你最后一次见到你的孩子是你最后一次见到他们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, goodness.
哦，天哪。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Never going to see them again.
再也见不到他们了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Ugh.
呃。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Nope, didn't happen.
不，没有发生。
You don't have to ruminate about it.
你不必深思熟虑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But my guess is the next time you hug your kid, just that two seconds of thinking about what things would be like without it can break through hedonic adaptation.
但我的猜测是，下次你拥抱你的孩子时，只要花两秒钟思考没有它会是什么样子，就能突破享乐适应。
So one of my favorite hacks for hedonic adaptation, you can use scarcity, really space things out, but for the things you can't space out, you can't have a kid and get rid of a kid for two weeks and come back to your kid, right?
因此，我最喜欢的享乐适应技巧之一是，你可以利用稀缺性，真正将事情分开，但对于你无法分开的事情，你不能生一个孩子，然后在两周内摆脱一个孩子，然后再回到你的孩子身边，对吗？
You can use your imagination, and it doesn't take much to start to realize what you have and appreciate it more.
你可以发挥你的想象力，不需要太多的时间就能开始意识到你所拥有的并更加欣赏它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love this one mostly because I think most people, including myself really, we want to avoid thinking negative stuff, especially on purpose.
我喜欢这个主要是因为我认为大多数人，包括我自己，我们都想避免思考消极的事情，尤其是故意的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But what you're telling us is that it provides a wonderful contrast point-
但你告诉我们的是，它提供了一个美妙的对比点——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to kind of trampoline off into the reality that is our current reality, which is far better than the-
有点像蹦床一样进入我们当前的现实，这比-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
these horrible scenarios.
这些可怕的场景。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
And I think this gets to another domain in which I see kind of toxic positivity playing out a lot, which is kind of in this sort of domain of like how do we do this stuff better, right?
我认为这涉及到另一个领域，在这个领域中，我看到了很多有毒的积极性，在这种领域，我们如何做得更好，对吧？
How do we kind of get good things in life?
我们如何才能获得生活中美好的事物？
And there's a lot of talk in some circles about this idea of manifesting, right?
在某些圈子里有很多关于显化的想法，对吧？
I'll just think about it.
我会考虑一下。
I'm feeling lonely.
我感到孤独。
I'll just think about what it's like to have friends.
我会想想有朋友是什么感觉。
Or I'm not fit right now.
或者我现在不适合。
I'll just imagine my fit future and fantasize about what it's like to run marathons and things like that.
我会想象我健康的未来，幻想跑马拉松之类的事情是什么样子。
Turns out, this can be a case where you're using imagination in a bad way because what happens when you really deeply imagine, say, the rewards of being super fit, you start to get Your brain's firing the reward cylinders for what it feels like to be super fit.
事实证明，这可能是你以一种糟糕的方式使用想象力的情况，因为当你真正深入地想象，比如说，超级健康的奖励时，你的大脑就会开始激发奖励汽缸，以获得超级健康的感觉。
And there's evidence from Gabriele Oettingen's lab at NYU that you actually get less motivated to do stuff.
纽约大学加布里埃尔·厄廷根实验室的证据表明，你做事的动力实际上会降低。
She does this in the context of fitness.
她是在健身的背景下这样做的。
She has people who want to run a 5K or want to lose some weight, for example.
例如，她有一些想要跑 5 公里或想要减肥的人。
They talk about, "Imagine how great it would be to do this." And they're less motivated to put on their running shoes and practice because they've already imagined the fantasy future.
他们谈论，“想象一下，如果这样做该有多好。”而且他们穿跑鞋和练习的积极性较低，因为他们已经想象了幻想的未来。
Turns out, instead of manifesting, a better technique if you have some habit that you want to engage in is to imagine the obstacles, the bad stuff that's coming up.
事实证明，如果你有某种想要养成的习惯，更好的技巧就是想象即将出现的障碍和坏事，而不是表现出来。
Right?
正确的？
So, "Oh, I want to get out and run this 5K." Well, what's the obstacle to that?
所以，“哦，我想出去跑这个 5 公里。”那么，这有什么障碍呢？
I'm going to be in bed, and the alarm's going to go off.
我要上床睡觉了，闹钟就要响了。
What's going to happen?
将会发生什么？
Like, "Oh, I'm going to be too warm.
就像，“哦，我会太热了。
Maybe I put my running clothes on," or, "Oh, it's going to be cold out.
也许我穿上跑步服，”或者，“哦，外面会很冷。
Oh, I should get a nice fuzzy hat to be able to do this." This Oettingen's work shows that if you actually imagine the negative things, again, not ruminating about them and freaking out, but imagine particularly the obstacles for a habit you want to engage in, you kind of naturally come up with solutions to those obstacles, which makes it easier.
哦，我应该买一顶漂亮的毛茸茸的帽子才能做到这一点。”厄廷根的这项工作表明，如果你真正想象出消极的事情，而不是反复思考它们并惊慌失措，而是特别想象一下你想要养成的习惯的障碍，你就会自然地想出解决这些障碍的办法，这会让事情变得更容易。
So sometimes thinking about the bad stuff can be helpful.
所以有时候想想不好的事情会很有帮助。
We just have to regulate when we do it.
我们只需要在做的时候进行监管。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have a friend who's a cardiologist from UCSF, and he says the danger of telling people that you're going to write a book or that you're going to start a podcast or that you're going to start a company is that if you have very supportive friends, and if you tend to be a pretty high agency person, you'll get a lot of praise and a lot of reward, and there's a lower probability that you'll actually do the thing-
我有一个朋友是加州大学旧金山分校的心脏病专家，他说告诉人们你要写一本书，或者你要开播客，或者你要开一家公司，危险在于，如果你有非常支持你的朋友，如果你倾向于成为一个相当高的代理人物，你会得到很多赞扬和很多奖励，而你真正做这件事的可能性就会降低——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
That you'll actually do it.
你真的会这么做。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because you've derived some of the reward.
因为你已经获得了一些奖励。
Whereas if people tell you, "Yeah, that seems kind of unlikely given that this and that," it doesn't feel so good.
然而，如果人们告诉你，“是的，考虑到这个那个，这似乎不太可能”，那感觉就不太好了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And obviously we want to encourage each other.
显然我们想互相鼓励。
This is the complicated thing.
这是一件复杂的事情。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a very narrow beam to walk on.
这是一根非常窄的横梁，无法在上面行走。
You want to encourage people, but you don't want to give them so much reward that then it undercuts their motivation.
你想鼓励人们，但你不想给他们太多的奖励，以免削弱他们的积极性。
And you certainly don't want to discourage them to the point where they give up on themselves prior to even trying.
你当然不想让他们灰心丧气，以至于他们在尝试之前就放弃了自己。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
That's right.
没错。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But at least in the United States, probably in other countries too, goodness, do we love a story about somebody who was told they couldn't do it and they did it.
但至少在美国，可能在其他国家也是如此，天哪，我们喜欢这样的故事：有人被告知他们做不到，但他们却做到了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think about the enormous popularity of David Goggins.
我想到了大卫·戈金斯的巨大人气。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Who had a truly difficult childhood and internalized all these messages of how terrible he was, and then used those voices, other people's and his own, in his head to push himself to do tremendously difficult things.
他有一个真正艰难的童年，并将所有这些关于他是多么可怕的信息内化，然后利用这些声音，其他人的和他自己的，在他的脑海中迫使自己去做极其困难的事情。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then to continue to do tremendously difficult things and to self-publish one of the most popular self-published books of all time, and then to go off and become a medic, and now he's effectively doing the training of somebody going to medical school for his new train- Like, he just refuses to stop.
然后继续做极其困难的事情，自行出版有史以来最受欢迎的自行出版的书籍之一，然后离开并成为一名医生，现在他实际上正在为去医学院的人进行新火车的培训——就像，他只是拒绝停下来。
And it's according to him, sat in that very chair and said it's fueled by an internal voice of, "You can't do it." And then he fights back against that voice.
据他说，他坐在那张椅子上，内心有一个声音“你做不到”。然后他反击那个声音。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which is oh so different than manifesting this image of success.
这与展现这种成功的形象有很大不同。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Exactly.
正是如此。
And, again, this is a case where there's nuance.
再说一遍，这是一个有细微差别的案例。
You have to believe it's possible, right?
你必须相信这是可能的，对吧？
Those negative voices can't tell you it's impossible.
那些消极的声音不能告诉你这是不可能的。
Because something else we know about motivation is that believing something is possible-
因为我们对动机的了解是相信某事是可能的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
which requires lots of effort, but it is possible, is quite helpful for you.
这需要付出很多努力，但这是可能的，对你很有帮助。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
The best example of this comes from another sort of sporting case.
最好的例子来自另一种体育案例。
I don't know if you know the case of Roger Bannister, who's the first guy to run the four-minute mile, or under.
我不知道你是否知道罗杰·班尼斯特的例子，他是第一个跑完四分钟一英里或低于四分钟一英里的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Break the four-minute.
打破四分钟。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Break the four-minute mile.
打破四分钟一英里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
And before he did that, people thought it was physiologically impossible.
在他这样做之前，人们认为这在生理上是不可能的。
Like, the human body cannot do this.
就像，人体无法做到这一点。
And he was like, "No, the human body can do this." And everyone was like, "Roger, you're crazy," whatever.
他说：“不，人体可以做到这一点。”每个人都说，“罗杰，你疯了，”无论如何。
But then he trained and trained, and probably had to overcome his obstacles.
但后来他不断地训练，很可能必须克服他的障碍。
He ran it, and then within two months, somebody else broke the four-minute mile.
他跑了它，然后两个月内，其他人打破了四分钟一英里的纪录。
It had not been broken in all of human history, but as soon as people had evidence of like, "Oh, people can do that," now everybody does it.
在整个人类历史中，它还没有被打破，但一旦人们有证据表明，“哦，人们可以做到这一点”，现在每个人都会这样做。
And now, I don't know, as you can see, I'm not a fit person, but lots of people run four-minute miles.
现在，我不知道，正如你所看到的，我不是一个健康的人，但很多人都跑四分钟一英里。
It's not the hugest thing.
这还不是最大的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
High schoolers run it.
高中生经营它。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which is crazy.
这太疯狂了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But the point is that they're probably helped out by this thing called the Bannister effect.
但关键是，他们可能受到了班尼斯特效应的帮助。
They know it's possible, right?
他们知道这是可能的，对吧？
So if you train, if you run into obstacles-
所以如果你训练，如果你遇到障碍-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
if you don't get that time, you're not like, "Well, I guess physiologically, I just can't do it." You can kind of do it.
如果你没有那个时间，你就不会说，“好吧，我想从生理上来说，我就是做不到。”你可以做到这一点。
And so there's this idea with the Bannister effect, you kind of have to be optimistic enough to think that it's doable.
所以就有了班尼斯特效应这个想法，你必须足够乐观才能认为它是可行的。
But when you think that it's doable, it's really helpful to ask the question, "Okay, what are the things that are going to come in the way of my doing it?" Maybe imagine them really kind of vividly so you get a sense.
但是，当您认为这是可行的时，问这样的问题确实很有帮助：“好吧，在我这样做的过程中会遇到哪些事情？”也许可以生动地想象它们，这样你就有了感觉。
It can super help it.
它可以超级帮助它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of the things that contrasts a country like Denmark, for instance, compared to the United States, and I know this from discussions with my stepmother, is that in this country, we have this notion because we have a lot of examples of people that went from absolutely nothing to these tremendously, quote unquote, high places.
例如，丹麦这样的国家与美国的对比之一是，我从与继母的讨论中知道这一点，那就是在这个国家，我们有这个概念，因为我们有很多例子，说明人们从一无所有到这些巨大的、引用不引用的、高位的例子。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Financially, reputationally, et cetera, performance in whatever domain.
财务上、声誉上等等，无论是在哪个领域的表现。
Sometimes overnight.
有时过夜。
This last year, I would say two events stick out in my mind as like, "Whoa, wow." The first was seeing the SpaceX rocket get captured by the, quote unquote, chopsticks.
去年，我想说有两件事在我脑海中浮现，就像“哇，哇”。第一个是看到 SpaceX 火箭被筷子捕获。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That was just a rocket landing of all things as opposed-
那只是所有事物的火箭着陆，而不是-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
So cool.
太酷了。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So cool.
太酷了。
Everybody, regardless of what else was going on with people's opinions of SpaceX or Elon or whatever, were just like, "Whoa." That was just an awesome feat of engineering.
每个人，无论人们对 SpaceX、Elon 或其他什么的看法如何，都会说“哇”。这简直是一项了不起的工程壮举。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just a undeniably awesome feat of engineering.
无可否认，这是一项令人惊叹的工程壮举。
So it sets a bigger upper ceiling on what we thought was possible.
因此，它为我们认为可能的事情设定了更大的上限。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We're seeing something that we hadn't seen before, at least not like that, not at that scale and resolution.
我们正在看到一些我们以前从未见过的东西，至少不是那样的，不是以那样的规模和分辨率。
So that changes what one conceptualizes about what's possible in different aspects of life, and I think that's important.
因此，这改变了人们对生活不同方面可能性的概念，我认为这很重要。
It really lifts the ceiling.
它确实提升了天花板。
The other was very different example was the overnight, the Hawk Tuah girl.
另一个非常不同的例子是一夜之间，Hawk Tuah 女孩。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Who nobody knew of, right?
谁没人知道，对吧？
Made a comment in a passing video on the street, one of these whatever spontaneous interview things, and then now has a quite successful podcast.
在街上路过的视频中发表了评论，这是自发的采访之一，然后现在有了一个相当成功的播客。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was ranked one of the highest new podcasts of the year.
它被评为年度最高的新播客之一。
As far as I understand, has a staff and a thriving business now.
据我了解，现在有员工，生意兴隆。
This is a very American thing, right?
这是非常美国化的事情，对吗？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To go from an unknown to one or two quick comments to all of a sudden being a ...
从一个未知数到一两个快速评论，再到突然成为一个......
famous and presumably famous and somewhat wealthy person-
著名的、大概是著名的、有点富有的人——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
as well.
以及。
And wish her nothing but luck in evolving that-
祝她在发展过程中一切顺利——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Good luck, Hak Tuah
祝你好运，哈都亚
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
her show.
她的表演。
Yeah, good luck.
是的，祝你好运。
Yeah, sure.
是的，当然。
I love to see people win.
我喜欢看到人们获胜。
Okay.
好的。
It was an unusual trajectory, but not so unusual for the United States in some sense.
这是一个不寻常的轨迹，但从某种意义上来说，对于美国来说并不是那么不寻常。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because we also have the people who climb the staircase, or the people that climb the staircase, fell, then came back.
因为我们也有爬楼梯的人，或者爬楼梯的人跌倒了，然后又回来了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We love and we cherish these stories in this country.
我们热爱并珍惜这个国家的这些故事。
And I think it frames the young mind in an interesting way.
我认为它以一种有趣的方式塑造了年轻人的思想。
It sets this anything is possible.
它设定了一切皆有可能。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oftentimes it takes, clearly, a ton of hard work, oftentimes at the expense of other aspects of one's mental or physical health-
显然，这通常需要大量的努力工作，而且常常以牺牲一个人的心理或身体健康的其他方面为代价——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or life enrichment, family, et cetera.
或者生活的丰富、家庭等等。
But it's a very American thing for people to be like, "Anything's possible."
但人们会说“一切皆有可能”，这是非常美国化的事情。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What do you think that does to our level of happiness if we're somebody that is looking for happiness, wants a good life, wants resources, but maybe they feel a little guilty that they're not as, quote-unquote, ambitious as everybody else.
如果我们正在寻找幸福，想要美好的生活，想要资源，但也许他们感到有点内疚，因为他们不像其他人那样有雄心壮志，你认为这对我们的幸福水平有什么影响。
But then you contrast that with a country like Denmark-
但你将其与丹麦这样的国家进行对比-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where people are very happy.
人们非常幸福的地方。
There's certainly ambitious Danes, but they're actually, I was told that the word ambition is a little bit-
当然有雄心勃勃的丹麦人，但他们实际上，我被告知“雄心勃勃”这个词有点-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of a pejorative.
的一个贬义词。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Little bit.
一点点。
Because you're not supposed to get that far ahead of anybody without acknowledging that you're still part of the pack.
因为你不应该在不承认自己仍然是群体中的一员的情况下领先于任何人那么远。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Forgive me, Danes, but they're nice people, so they'll likely go easy on me.
请原谅我，丹麦人，但他们都是好人，所以他们可能会对我很宽容。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
No, I think-
不，我认为——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I have Danish relatives.
我有丹麦亲戚。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
I think you're-
我认为你是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How do we take what's out and around us, address who we are, and reconcile those things so that we're good with what we've got, and know that we are good with what we've got?
我们如何看待外面和周围的事物，解决我们是谁，并协调这些事物，以便我们善用我们所拥有的，并知道我们善待我们所拥有的？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I think this is a spot where culture plays a big role.
我认为这是文化发挥重要作用的地方。
I think you're exactly right about Denmark.
我认为你对丹麦的看法完全正确。
In fact, the Danes have this idea of Jante's Law.
事实上，丹麦人有詹特定律的这种想法。
I'm probably pronouncing this poorly, but J-A-N-T-E's Law, which the idea is you're not really supposed to be better than anybody else, or kind of showing off, or pushing yourself, or thinking you're better, even kind of maybe striving specifically.
我的发音可能很糟糕，但 J-A-N-T-E 定律的意思是，你不应该真的比其他人更好，或者炫耀，或者强迫自己，或者认为自己更好，甚至可能专门努力。
You can strive to be better, but to strive to be better than other people is like a no-no. It's sort of culturally frowned upon in this way that I think is completely the opposite in the US right now, where that's seen as an awesome thing.
你可以努力变得更好，但努力比别人更好就像一个禁忌。这种方式在文化上是不受欢迎的，我认为现在在美国完全相反，在美国，这被视为一件很棒的事情。
I think the problem is that these kind of rags to riches stories, you've given cases of ones where there's a moment, right?
我认为问题在于，这些白手起家的故事，你已经给出了一些有时刻的案例，对吗？
With SpaceX, they do this wonderful thing, and you're like, "Yeah, they kind of got there." And Hak Tuah's still doing her thing, but there was this moment of like, "Oh my gosh, she kind of achieved this success." There's this idea that we kind of think that there's an end destination for something.
通过 SpaceX，他们做了一件了不起的事情，你会想，“是的，他们做到了。” Hak Tuah 仍在做她的事情，但有那么一刻，“天哪，她取得了这样的成功。”我们认为某件事有一个最终目的地。
I'm going to get $50 million, or I'm going to get married, or I'm going to get that promotion at work, right?
我会得到 5000 万美元，或者我会结婚，或者我会在工作中获得晋升，对吗？
For my students, I'm going to get into a really elite college or something like that.
对于我的学生来说，我将进入一所真正的精英大学或类似的学校。
We don't put our emphasis on the journey part, we put our emphasis on the destination part, and we assume that the destination is going to come with a lot of happiness.
我们不把重点放在旅程部分，我们把重点放在目的地部分，并且我们假设目的地会带来很多幸福。
This is a bias that researchers have called the arrival fallacy.
研究人员将这种偏见称为到达谬误。
I'll be happy when.
到时候我就开心了
It's almost like the happily ever after.
这几乎就像从此幸福快乐。
I'll be happily ever after if I get that promotion, or happily ever after when I meet that person.
如果我得到晋升，我会永远幸福，或者当我遇到那个人时，我会永远幸福。
And what we know from hedonic adaptation is that thing that's awesome in the moment when you arrive there quickly becomes the other thing.
我们从享乐适应中了解到，当你到达那里时，那一刻很棒的事情很快就会变成另一件事。
You mentioned briefly the gold medallists who have this moment where it's like they won the gold medal and that's awesome, but now everything else is downhill or I just got to do it again, right?
你简单地提到了金牌得主，他们有过这样的时刻，就像他们赢得了金牌，这太棒了，但现在其他一切都在走下坡路，或者我必须再做一次，对吧？
We arrive at the best possible place we could've fantasized, and instantly it's like I just have to start chasing the next carrot.
我们到达了我们所能想象的最好的地方，立刻就好像我必须开始追逐下一个胡萝卜。
So sometimes when we find ourselves, I think as Americans, chasing after the thing, I think it's important to remember that first of all, that chase is going to involve lots of ups and downs.
因此，有时当我们发现自己，我认为作为美国人，在追逐事物时，我认为重要的是要记住，首先，这种追逐将涉及很多起起落落。
It's not going to be a linear path.
它不会是一条线性路径。
It's probably not going to be overnight.
这可能不会是一朝一夕的事。
Even the ones you mentioned, maybe with the exception of Hak Tuah, girl, it's a really extreme case, required some kind of work and ups and downs and these kinds of things, right?
即使是你提到的那些，也许除了 Hak Tuah 之外，女孩，这真的是一个极端的例子，需要某种工作和起起伏伏之类的事情，对吗？
We don't see those.
我们看不到那些。
But more, the happiness that we're going to get, it's better off if we're going not for the end result, that arrival, and falling prey to the arrival fallacy.
但更重要的是，我们将要获得的幸福，如果我们不追求最终结果，即到达，并成为到达谬误的牺牲品，情况会更好。
It's better if we can see some happiness in the journey.
如果我们能在旅途中看到一些快乐就更好了。
This has often been called this idea of sort of finding a journey mindset, which is sort of what can you take from the process of getting there, right?
这通常被称为寻找旅程心态的想法，这就是你可以从到达那里的过程中获得什么，对吧？
So you want to run your 5K, but what can you do to try to enjoy the process of those runs that go along the way and noticing the kind of ups and downs and sort of paying attention to the journey.
所以你想跑你的 5K，但你能做些什么来尝试享受沿途跑步的过程，注意到那种起伏，并关注整个旅程。
It's the one way to kind of break out of falling prey to this arrival fallacy.
这是摆脱这种到来谬论的一种方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Requires a serious frame shift.
需要严重的移码。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Totally.
完全可以。
And I think one that is not culturally accepted in the US.
我认为这在美国文化上是不被接受的。
And I think this causes a happiness hit, not just because sometimes we don't get there.
我认为这会带来幸福感，不仅仅是因为有时我们达不到那里。
Sometimes there's a reason.
有时候是有原因的。
If you set your height super high, you want to be Roger Bannister or whatever, not all of us are going to get there, whether that's a four-minute mile, or success at work, or $50 million, or whatever it is.
如果你把自己的身高定得很高，你想成为罗杰·班尼斯特（Roger Bannister）或其他什么，不是我们所有人都能达到目标，无论是四分钟一英里，还是工作上的成功，或者5000万美元，或者无论是什么。
So sometimes if you set your sights too high, you just don't get there, and so that's a happiness hit.
所以有时候，如果你把目标定得太高，你就是达不到目标，所以这就是幸福的打击。
And sometimes when you do get there, it's a happiness hit because you get there and there's the happiness for a moment, but then that hit doesn't keep coming.
有时候，当你真的到达那里时，你会感到幸福，因为你到达那里，有一瞬间的幸福，但随后这种幸福感就不会持续出现。
I think we also just lose out on something when we're not in that journey mindset, because there's a lot of cool stuff along the way if we can kind of pay attention.
我认为，当我们不处于这种旅程心态时，我们也会失去一些东西，因为如果我们能多加注意，一路上会有很多很酷的东西。
But yeah, I think it's a big cultural shift from the way Americans usually think, but it's one that if we can achieve that, we'll start feeling a lot better.
但是，是的，我认为这是美国人通常思维方式的一个重大文化转变，但如果我们能够实现这一目标，我们就会开始感觉好很多。
And it means even the failures in life are kind of good because you were enjoying yourself along the way.
这意味着即使生活中的失败也是好的，因为你一路走来很享受。
For my podcast, I did an episode about these sort of Olympic medals where I talked about the bronze lining effect and things.
在我的播客中，我制作了一集关于此类奥运会奖牌的节目，其中我谈到了铜牌衬里效应等。
And I had Michelle Kwan, an Olympic medallist, we all remember her, but mostly just won silver.
我还有奥运奖牌获得者关颖珊（Michelle Kwan），我们都记得她，但大多数人只是获得了银牌。
And I talked to her about what that felt like, and she said, "It didn't matter to me.
我和她谈论了那种感觉，她说：“这对我来说并不重要。
The things I loved about being in the Olympics wasn't the medal stand." It was when she first talked about putting her skates on and seeing the rings in the ice, and recognizing, as soon as I tie these laces, I'm going to get to skate over those, and I fantasize.
我喜欢参加奥运会的事情并不是奖牌台。”那是当她第一次谈到穿上溜冰鞋并看到冰上的圆环时，并认识到，一旦我系上这些鞋带，我就可以在它们上滑冰，我幻想着。
That's the journey mindset, right?
这就是旅行心态，对吗？
You're not looking at the thing at the end.
你没有看到最后的事情。
You're paying enough attention to the stuff along the way, even some of the stuff that's a pain in the butt, that you kind of get some joy on the ride.
你对一路上的事情给予了足够的关注，即使是一些令人痛苦的事情，你也会在旅途中得到一些快乐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I certainly have learned to relish in the failures as well as the successes.
我当然已经学会了享受失败和成功。
And I think some of that also just comes with age.
我认为其中一些也是随着年龄的增长而出现的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've always wanted to say that.
我一直想说这句话。
It's true, though.
不过，这是真的。
It kind of comes with age.
它是随着年龄的增长而出现的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
You're old enough now, Andrew.
你现在已经够大了，安德鲁。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
You can jump into it.
你可以跳进去。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
You accrue enough experiences, good and bad and neutral, and you kind of go like...
你积累了足够的经验，好的、坏的、中性的，然后你就会像……
The other day, I was in this kind of weird state of mind.
前几天，我的心态很奇怪。
I was like, "Wait, I've been here before."
我当时想，“等等，我以前来过这里。”
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like, this shifts.
就像，这会发生变化。
No worries.
不用担心。
This shifts.
这发生了变化。
And then sure enough, it shifted.
果然，事情发生了变化。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think the first time we find ourself in a place or we find ourself back in a place and we forget we've been there before for whatever reason, or we try and pretend we haven't been there before, it's like...
我认为，当我们第一次发现自己身处一个地方，或者我们发现自己回到一个地方，但无论出于何种原因，我们忘记了我们以前去过那里，或者我们试图假装我们以前没有去过那里，就像……
And then you go through enough of those cycles, like, okay, this is part of a larger trajectory.
然后你经历了足够多的这些周期，就像，好吧，这是更大轨迹的一部分。
This is an amazing thing about the brain I never understood, I still don't, which is that when we're feeling happy, we don't tend to think, "Gosh, this feeling is going to go away." Sometimes a little bit of that.
这是关于大脑的一件令人惊奇的事情，我从来没有理解过，我现在仍然不明白，那就是当我们感到快乐时，我们不会倾向于想，“天哪，这种感觉会消失。”有时有那么一点点。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But when we're feeling lousy, it does seem to do something to our sense of time, our time perception, that makes it seem, especially in the real lows and the real trenches, that it's going to go on forever.
但当我们感觉糟糕时，它似乎确实会对我们的时间感、我们的时间感知产生一些影响，这使得它看起来会永远持续下去，尤其是在真正的低谷和真正的战壕中。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We can't imagine feeling differently.
我们无法想象不同的感觉。
The "this too shall pass" is very hard to internalize when we're in those states.
当我们处于这些状态时，“这也会过去”很难内化。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Totally.
完全可以。
But it can make you feel a lot if you can get that distance from your current state.
但如果你能与当前的状态保持一定的距离，它会让你感触良多。
And this is a kind of, you had Ethan Kross on the show.
这是一种，伊森·克罗斯出现在节目中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
That he talks a lot, if you can kind of get that distance of, well, how's this going to feel in five years?
他说了很多话，如果你能保持一定的距离，那么五年后感觉如何？
How's this going to feel in 10 years?
10年后感觉如何？
You can sometimes feel a lot better.
有时你会感觉好很多。
Interestingly, even when the happy stuff, if we can get some sense that this isn't going to last forever, that can sometimes boost the happiness.
有趣的是，即使是快乐的事情，如果我们能意识到这不会永远持续下去，有时也会增加幸福感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Because we're kind of almost doing like a negative visualization in the forward direction, right?
因为我们几乎就像是向前方向上的负面可视化，对吗？
So a scarce experience, if you're having it, it's useful to remember, this is limited, right?
因此，稀有的经历，如果你拥有它，记住它是有用的，这是有限的，对吗？
This is temporary.
这是暂时的。
I should enjoy this now while it's happening.
我现在应该享受这一切的发生。
The most extreme version of this, of course, is with our own lives, right?
当然，最极端的版本是我们自己的生活，对吗？
Contemplating our mortality.
思考我们的死亡。
There's this idea of memento mori, which is a common phrase, actually, my ring has memento mori on it.
有一个“memento mori”的想法，这是一个常见的短语，实际上，我的戒指上有“memento mori”。
Which is morbid, right?
这是病态的，对吧？
I'm going to die.
我要死了。
I'm not going to be here.
我不会在这里。
But when you recognize that, the old school folks thought, and I think it's true, you realize, I can't take any of this stuff for granted.
但当你认识到这一点时，老派的人会想，我认为这是真的，你就会意识到，我不能把这些东西视为理所当然。
I have to pay attention now.
我现在必须注意了。
This is not the kind of thing that's going to last forever.
这不是那种会永远持续下去的事情。
And so I think moments like that for positive experiences can feel like that.
所以我认为像这样的积极经历的时刻就会有这样的感觉。
If you're tasting a delicious glass of pinot noir, sitting.
如果您正在品尝一杯美味的黑皮诺，请坐下来。
Yesterday, while I'm here, took a walk on Santa Monica Beach and my brain was like, "Oh, I have to, Andrew coming out," da da.
昨天，当我在这里的时候，在圣莫尼卡海滩散步时，我的大脑就想，“哦，我必须这么做，安德鲁要出来了，”哒哒。
I was like, "No, no, no. I'm going to fly back to cold East Coast tomorrow.
我当时想，“不，不，不。我明天要飞回寒冷的东海岸。
I need to pay attention," right?
我需要注意，”对吧？
So thinking that this is finite can actually help you.
因此，认为这是有限的实际上可以帮助您。
There's a very funny study on this with college students where they did this sort of funny framing technique where they brought senior college students into the lab kind of halfway through the spring semester and told them, "You either have this many hours left of your time," which maybe is a big number.
有一项针对大学生的非常有趣的研究，他们采用了一种有趣的框架技术，他们在春季学期中途将高年级大学生带入实验室，并告诉他们，“你要么还剩下这么多小时”，这可能是一个很大的数字。
It makes it seem like thousands of hours.
它看起来像是数千个小时。
Or, "You have only this many days left before you graduate, just a reminder." What they found was the one that got the days manipulation, where it felt kind of short, they wound up doing more things, like kind of getting in those things that they thought, "Oh, I'll get around to it eventually," and wound up kind of feeling happier.
或者，“距离毕业只剩下这么多天了，只是一个提醒。”他们发现，那些日子被操纵了，感觉时间有点短，他们最终会做更多的事情，比如做那些他们认为“哦，我最终会抽出时间去做”的事情，最后会感觉更快乐。
So recognizing that things are short sometimes has a benefit.
因此，认识到事物的短暂有时是有好处的。
Maybe both for negative emotions like, this too shall pass, but also the positive stuff, like, this too shall pass, so I got to enjoy it while it's around.
也许对于负面情绪，比如，这也会过去，但也可能是积极的情绪，比如，这也会过去，所以我必须在它存在的时候享受它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's so interesting because it's kind of counterintuitive that realizing that something positive is also fleeting allows us to savor it more.
这很有趣，因为这有点违反直觉，意识到积极的东西也是转瞬即逝的，让我们能够更多地品味它。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because from an uninformed perspective, one could imagine, okay, so you're at a great meal with people you love, and let's even say it's been a rough month before, and you're like really in it, and someone says, "Well, you know, this too is going to pass." And you're like, that sounds like kind of a downer, right?
因为从不知情的角度来看，人们可以想象，好吧，你正在和你爱的人一起吃一顿美餐，甚至可以说，这是一个艰难的一个月，而你就像真的在其中，有人说，“好吧，你知道，这也会过去。”你觉得，这听起来有点让人沮丧，对吧？
But then if it allows you to savor it more-
但如果它能让你更多地品味它——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that's key.
这是关键。
So yeah, there does seem to be this inverse relationship between sad states and happy states, where when we are in sad states, we feel like it will go on forever and we'll do almost anything to get out of those, unless they've completely collapsed us.
所以，是的，悲伤状态和快乐状态之间似乎确实存在这种反比关系，当我们处于悲伤状态时，我们觉得它会永远持续下去，我们几乎会做任何事情来摆脱这些状态，除非它们完全崩溃了我们。
In our happy states, we don't want to be reminded that it will pass.
在我们快乐的状态下，我们不想被提醒它会过去。
And this is why I think, in part, not the only reason, why people will take mood-altering drugs.
我认为这就是为什么人们会服用改变情绪的药物的部分原因，而不是唯一的原因。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm talking about is in the recreational sense, like to sort of forget everything else and forget that whatever they're experiencing is going to wear off.
我所说的是娱乐意义上的，就像忘记其他一切，忘记他们所经历的一切都会消失。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And I think it's not nice to think that these good states are going to pass, but I think it is helpful because it forces us to pay attention to them.
我认为认为这些良好的状态将会过去并不好，但我认为这是有帮助的，因为它迫使我们关注它们。
I'm having this a little bit now where we're coming up on the holidays, that you and I are having this conversation, and I'm getting ready to do the holidays with the in-laws.
我现在有一点，我们即将迎来假期，你和我正在进行这次对话，我正准备与姻亲一起度假。
Which there's lots of positives, but sometimes it's like, oh God, I don't want to.
这有很多积极的一面，但有时我会想，天哪，我不想这样做。
But because my in-laws, my mom is getting up there, I'm kind of like, oh, recognizing that there's not infinite holidays left with these people that I care about, that it's kind of more finite and maybe more finite than it's been, it's causing me to be more excited about it than I would've been.
但因为我的姻亲、我的妈妈正在那里，我有点像，哦，认识到我关心的这些人没有无限的假期，它有点更有限，也许比以前更有限，这让我比以前更兴奋。
And that's a morbid thought, right?
这是一个病态的想法，对吗？
Memento mori was meant to be a really bittersweet emotion, right?
Memento mori 本来就是一种苦乐参半的情感，对吧？
That we are finite, right?
我们是有限的，对吗？
But it can kind of give you this appreciation.
但它可以给你这种欣赏。
It can cause you to savor in a special way.
它可以让你以一种特殊的方式品味。
So sometimes the morbid is good.
所以有时候病态也是好的。
A little bit morbid.
有点病态。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's the contrast again.
又是对比。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's the contrast.
这就是对比。
And maybe it's why people watch horror movies.
也许这就是人们看恐怖电影的原因。
I'm not into horror movies, but so that maybe you feel safer.
我不喜欢恐怖电影，但这样也许你会感觉更安全。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know.
我不知道。
That stuff always made me feel terrified if I would watch some of that late at night.
如果我在深夜看这些东西，总是让我感到害怕。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
High amygdala reaction.
高杏仁核反应。
Me too.
我也是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
I hate horror movies.
我讨厌恐怖电影。
But it's worth noting that a lot of people like them, huge industry.
但值得注意的是，很多人喜欢它们，这是一个巨大的产业。
And even if you don't like horror movies, you might like maybe a spicy food that feels not even good, it feels awful in the moment.
即使你不喜欢恐怖电影，你也可能会喜欢辛辣的食物，但感觉甚至不太好，那一刻感觉很糟糕。
Or a super hot bath, or a really cold plunge, right?
或者洗个超级热水澡，或者洗个冷水澡，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I like getting out of the cold plunge for exactly the reason we're talking about.
我喜欢摆脱冷落，这正是我们正在谈论的原因。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Or even, honestly for me, I'm not a super fan of exercise, but a really, really hard workout that feels miserable, when you finally stop, it feels...
或者甚至，老实说，对我来说，我不是运动的超级粉丝，而是一种非常非常艰苦的锻炼，感觉很痛苦，当你最终停止时，感觉......
I do a lot of yoga, and my favorite thing is at the end when they're like, "And now you can do Shavasana."
我做了很多瑜伽，我最喜欢的事情就是最后他们说，“现在你可以做Shavasana了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
The Shavasana is always good if you've worked the worst-
如果你工作得最糟糕，摊尸式总是好的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
so you're just really like, ha.
所以你真的很喜欢，哈哈。
It's helpful to kind of have these moments, to have this contrast.
拥有这些时刻、形成这种对比是有帮助的。
And so building the contrast in where you kind of give yourself some negative emotion, whether it's a kind of imagined negative emotion like negative visualization or a fictional one.
因此，在你给自己一些负面情绪的地方建立对比，无论它是一种想象的负面情绪，比如负面想象，还是虚构的负面情绪。
A lot of our favorite fictional experiences are pretty terrible.
我们最喜欢的许多虚构经历都非常糟糕。
Like a novel's really boring if the protagonist like, there's nothing bad happens, just kind of coasts along and things are just mildly positive.
就像一本小说真的很无聊，如果主角喜欢，没有什么坏事发生，只是沿着海岸，事情只是温和积极。
No, we want them to go through some terrible stuff, even when we really associate with them and sort of see them as ourselves.
不，我们希望他们经历一些可怕的事情，即使我们真的与他们交往并将他们视为我们自己。
And so, yeah, these fictional worlds where we can play with negative emotions a little bit are super interesting psychologically, because why would we do that?
所以，是的，这些我们可以玩弄负面情绪的虚构世界在心理上非常有趣，因为我们为什么要这么做呢？
But as you were saying, even when you get These neural stimulation, we kind of want some of the negative stuff.
但正如你所说，即使你得到这些神经刺激，我们也想要一些负面的东西。
So there's an interesting paper about what's the right ratio of positive to negative emotions.
因此，有一篇有趣的论文讨论了积极情绪与消极情绪的正确比例是多少。
And it's not 100% positives for hedonic adaptation and so on, but I think really the recipe for a rich life is varied for these contrast reasons we've been talking about.
这对于享乐适应等并不是100%积极的，但我认为，由于我们一直在谈论的这些对比原因，丰富生活的秘诀实际上是多种多样的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what's the ideal ratio?
那么理想的比例是多少呢？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
They don't know.
他们不知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, they don't know.
哦，他们不知道。
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
They didn't figure it.
他们没想到。
It was like you boom, it's like exactly.
就像你的繁荣一样，一模一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
60, 40.
60、40。
Positive, negative.
积极的，消极的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Here I was anticipating a number.
在这里我期待着一个数字。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
And I think it's also worth remembering that we're talking as though there are negative emotions and positive emotions.
我认为还值得记住的是，我们在谈论时就好像存在消极情绪和积极情绪一样。
A lot of the most interesting emotions are more complex than that.
许多最有趣的情绪比这更复杂。
You talked about this SpaceX kind of chopsticks moment.
你谈到了 SpaceX 的筷子时刻。
My guess is the emotion you're experiencing there is one that researchers like Dacher Keltner and colleagues would call awe, right?
我猜你正在经历的情感是达彻·凯尔特纳（Dacher Keltner）及其同事等研究人员所说的敬畏，对吗？
This sense of, "Oh my gosh.
这种感觉，“哦，天哪。
That is amazing.
这真是太棒了。
There's something bigger than me that is able to do this thing." And one of the reasons awe is such an interesting emotion is it's usually destabilizing, right?
有比我更伟大的东西能够做这件事。”敬畏是一种如此有趣的情绪，原因之一是它通常会不稳定，对吗？
They're like things that are better than I ever expected.
它们就像比我预想的更好的东西。
Humankind is so masterful, space is so big, nature is so vast, right?
人类如此伟大，空间如此之大，大自然如此浩瀚，对吗？
It kind of feels a little destabilizing when you experience awe.
当你感受到敬畏时，会感觉有点不稳定。
But we also see it as positive, and so I think if you're feeling a little bored in your emotional life, trying to find moments where you can get these emotions that are not so obviously positive or negative, but are a little bit of both can be really inspiring.
但我们也认为它是积极的，所以我认为，如果你在情感生活中感到有点无聊，试着找到一些时刻，让你能够获得这些情绪，这些情绪不是那么明显的积极或消极，但两者都有一点，可以真正鼓舞人心。
It's one of the reasons we talk a lot about sort of psychedelics and these sort of altered experiences.
这就是我们经常谈论迷幻药和这些改变的经历的原因之一。
Those experiences tend to be thought of as being really consistent with moments of awe.
这些经历往往被认为与敬畏时刻真正一致。
But they, again, are not universally positive, but they kind of expand you and take you a little further.
但它们并不是普遍积极的，但它们在一定程度上扩展了你，让你走得更远。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I can attest that they're not universally positive.
我可以证明他们并不普遍持积极态度。
Sometimes they're terrifying, even in their clinical application.
有时它们很可怕，即使在临床应用中也是如此。
The thing I appreciated about the rocket landing was that indeed, I feel awe looking up at the stars at night or just thinking about how we're having this conversation in a room and then expanding out to like we're a little-
关于火箭着陆，我欣赏的一点是，确实，我在晚上仰望星空，或者只是想一想我们如何在一个房间里进行对话，然后扩展到好像我们有点——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
little object floating in the universe, and that can be a bit overwhelming.
漂浮在宇宙中的小物体，这可能有点让人难以承受。
What's I think incredible is that through the harnessing of engineering and physics, SpaceX was able to create something that was so well controlled-
我认为令人难以置信的是，通过利用工程和物理学，SpaceX 能够创造出如此受控的东西——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
at a scale that I'm normally accustomed to thinking about things.
以我通常习惯思考事物的规模。
Sure, I've seen planes and we landed on the Moon, et cetera.
当然，我见过飞机，我们还登陆过月球，等等。
Some people would debate that, but we were on the Moon.
有些人会争论这一点，但我们在月球上。
I wasn't, but somebody was.
我不是，但有人是。
To see control and harnessing of physics and engineering at a scale that is certainly not at the scale of the entire galaxies, but is starting-
看到对物理和工程学的控制和利用的规模肯定不是整个星系的规模，但正在开始——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to approach outer space and back again-
接近外太空并再次返回-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
clearly.
清楚地。
And in such a, I think it was the slowing of that enormously large object-
在这样的情况下，我认为这是那个巨大物体的减速——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and the capture that felt so gratifying.
以及令人欣喜的捕捉。
I also think, and this can explain a fair amount of human technological evolution, is that the human brain either delights in or at least marvels in creating action at a distance.
我还认为，这可以解释相当多的人类技术进化，即人类大脑要么喜欢或至少惊叹于在远处创造行动。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, think about what went into creating that amount of action in an object with that much mass at a distance.
我的意思是，想一想是什么在一个距离如此大的质量的物体上产生了如此大的作用。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
And then you can layer through all the things where we're looking at on our phones, on our screens.
然后你可以分层浏览我们在手机和屏幕上看到的所有内容。
I mean, all-
我的意思是，所有——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that technology is relatively recent.
该技术相对较新。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And to think that us human beings, as opposed to macaque monkeys, could do that.
想想我们人类，而不是猕猴，可以做到这一点。
We are the primate species that is so far ahead in terms of technological-
我们是在技术方面遥遥领先的灵长类物种
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
development compared to every other species on the planet.
与地球上所有其他物种相比的发展。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The only other species of life that might be besting us and we don't know is, I've heard this theory it's rather entertaining, which is that all these trillions of microorganisms that live in our gut microbiome-
唯一可能打败我们而我们不知道的其他生命物种是，我听说过这个理论，它相当有趣，那就是生活在我们肠道微生物群中的所有这些数万亿微生物——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
what if we're just vehicles for them to get around and pass to one another?
如果我们只是他们四处走动并互相传递的交通工具怎么办？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they have a sort of a consciousness that is all about just propagating.
他们有一种只是传播的意识。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that we think that we're doing all this stuff for some evolution, but it's just to keep the microbiota going.
我们认为我们做所有这些事情是为了某种进化，但这只是为了保持微生物群的运转。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
They're like feeding.
他们就像喂食一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't really believe that, by the way.
顺便说一句，我不太相信这一点。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Finally, we could get to space where we could really evolve-
最终，我们可以到达可以真正进化的太空——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
...
...
the microbiota thing and-
微生物群的事情和-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they just want more microbiota.
他们只是想要更多的微生物群。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So that we're being hijacked.
这样我们就被劫持了。
I chuckle at that theory.
我对这个理论笑了。
I don't actually think that's the way it is.
我实际上并不认为事情是这样的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
As we talk about too few studies of dog and primate cognition, way too few studies of microbiota cognition, unfortunately.
不幸的是，当我们谈论对狗和灵长类动物认知的研究太少时，对微生物认知的研究也太少了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is probably the right time to say that we are a storytelling species.
现在也许是时候说我们是一个讲故事的物种了。
This is what we're doing right now.
这就是我们现在正在做的事情。
We're creating story around these things that we can't quite explain and during the course of today's conversation, I realized that this thing that we call happiness has at least three levels or layers that we filter it through when we ask ourselves, are we happy?
我们正在围绕这些我们无法完全解释的事情创造故事，在今天的谈话过程中，我意识到我们称之为幸福的东西至少有三个层次或层次，当我们问自己时，我们会过滤它，我们幸福吗？
How do I be happier?
我怎样才能更快乐？
This element of contrast with negative experiences seems to be a repeating-
这种与负面经历形成对比的元素似乎是一种重复——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
theme, memento mori being-
主题，纪念死亡——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a negative sort of dark cloud from which we're supposed to see the light and act in the light.
一种消极的乌云，我们应该从中看到光明并在光明中行事。
This exists in religious narratives, philosophical narratives, and scientific reality.
这存在于宗教叙事、哲学叙事和科学现实中。
I could imagine three layers.
我可以想象三层。
The first is sensory experience.
首先是感官体验。
The reason to take a cold shower, folks, in addition to the fact that it'll save you on your heating bill, is that the warm shower that follows, in fact, that's how I do it, feels so good.
伙计们，洗冷水澡的原因除了可以节省取暖费之外，还在于接下来的热水淋浴，事实上，我就是这样做的，感觉非常好。
10 times better than it would if you'd just gotten into the warm shower, I promise.
我保证，比刚洗完热水澡要好十倍。
Same thing about getting out of the cold plunge.
摆脱寒流也是同样的道理。
There's a lot of debate about these things.
关于这些事情有很多争论。
But this is just pure sensory experience and contrast of the sort that we're talking about today.
但这只是我们今天讨论的那种纯粹的感官体验和对比。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hunger and then eating a delicious piece of food, or eating a not so delicious piece of food, but you're hungry and so it's that much more delicious.
饥饿，然后吃一块美味的食物，或者吃一块不那么美味的食物，但你饿了，所以它更美味。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay?
好吧？
Million examples we could spiral towards.
我们可以螺旋式发展数百万个例子。
So there's sensory experience.
所以就有了感官体验。
There's raw sensory perception and experience from which the contrast creates this thing that we feel better.
原始的感官知觉和经验使我们感觉更好。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
AKA happiness, sort of.
又名幸福，有点。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Then there's story.
然后就有故事了。
Like, "God, last year was a tough year.
就像，“天哪，去年是艰难的一年。
This year was better." There's also, and I've seen this before, like, "We were killing it for two years, and then this year was kind of a meh year." This is not the case by the way, but I'm very fortunate the podcast has continued to grow and expand, but for some people they They're not as happy with their whatever salary this year because even though it's spectacular by somebody else's standards, by their standard, it's down from previous years.
今年更好。”还有，我以前也见过这样的情况，比如，“我们已经杀了它两年了，然后今年就成了糟糕的一年。”顺便说一句，情况并非如此，但我很幸运，播客一直在不断发展和扩大，但对于一些人来说，他们对今年的薪水并不满意，因为尽管按照别人的标准，但按照他们的标准，这比往年有所下降。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there's the story that we create.
这就是我们创造的故事。
It's not sensory experience, it's perception based on dopamine, and it's perception based on reward and punishment, et cetera.
这不是感官体验，而是基于多巴胺的感知，基于奖励和惩罚的感知，等等。
And then there's this third layer, which is meaning.
然后是第三层，即意义。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like you said, yeah, spending time with in-laws, okay, every moment of it might not be as awesome as you might like, but there's meaning in spending time with people that are extended family, especially when elders and younger are in the same room.
就像你说的，是的，与姻亲共度时光，好吧，每一刻可能都不像你想象的那么精彩，但与大家庭的人共度时光是有意义的，尤其是当长辈和年轻人共处一室时。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It layers on story to create this sort of other level that we call meaning.
它在故事上分层，创造出我们称之为意义的其他层次。
And so what I'm realizing is these are three timescales.
所以我意识到这是三个时间尺度。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we have the immediate timescale of happiness, we have the kind of intermediate one where we introduce a story, and then we have meaning, which is kind of like this whole picture.
所以我们有幸福的直接时间尺度，我们有一种中间的时间尺度，我们介绍一个故事，然后我们就有了意义，这有点像整个画面。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it seems to me that we need to approach happiness from all three levels.
所以在我看来，我们需要从所有三个层面来接近幸福。
That it's not enough to just be like a dog.
仅仅像狗一样是不够的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which are in the sensory experience, presumably, of happiness.
这大概是幸福的感官体验。
If they tell stories, they don't tell them to us.
如果他们讲故事，他们不会告诉我们。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if they have meaning, I don't know.
我不知道它们是否有意义。
But they seem to have nailed the first level.
但他们似乎已经完成了第一关。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they're probably five or more.
他们可能有五个或更多。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
And they probably don't have the capacity to do the other two, so it's not like they're not doing it and kind of missing out.
他们可能没有能力做另外两个事情，所以他们并不是没有做，而是有点错过了。
They kind of have brains that don't let them notice they're missing out.
他们的大脑不会让他们意识到自己错过了。
But we unfortunately have brains that would feel like we are really missing out if we just had the sensory experiences without the good stories.
但不幸的是，如果我们只获得感官体验而没有好故事，我们的大脑会觉得我们真的错过了。
I think you're sort of pointing to this idea that being happy in your life and being happy with your life.
我认为你在某种程度上指出了这样的想法：在你的生活中快乐并且对你的生活感到满意。
The with your life part has the kind of medium timescale stories, but also the really big ones, right?
与你的生活部分有中等时间尺度的故事，但也有真正的大故事，对吧？
Am I doing anything really meaningful with my life?
我的人生有做任何真正有意义的事情吗？
Am I finding purpose, and so on.
我是否找到了目标，等等。
The funny thing, though, is to get to that big timescale, to find a sense of purpose and stuff like that, sometimes it pays to do stuff at the local level, at the medium and shorter-term timescale.
不过，有趣的是，要达到这么大的时间尺度，找到一种使命感之类的东西，有时在本地层面、中短期时间尺度上做事情是值得的。
And one of the things researchers have found is that if you're engaging in activities at the short-term timescales that kind of fit with your values or what these positive psychologists have often called your strengths, that can be a way to achieve purpose.
研究人员发现的一件事是，如果你在短期内从事符合你的价值观或这些积极心理学家通常所说的你的优势的活动，这可能是实现目标的一种方式。
So what are strengths?
那么什么是优势呢？
So researchers do this thing where they want to look at all the valuable things people can do out in the world, right?
所以研究人员做这件事是为了看看人们在世界上可以做的所有有价值的事情，对吗？
And so what are the things that you value?
那么你看重哪些东西呢？
And folks like Chris Peterson and colleagues have come up with this list of what they call different character strengths.
克里斯·彼得森（Chris Peterson）及其同事等人列出了他们所谓的不同性格优势的清单。
And there are things that you can actually, if you Google online character strengths, you'll get the big list.
事实上，有些事情是你可以做到的，如果你在网上搜索性格优势，你就会得到一份大名单。
Often people talk about there being 24.
人们经常谈论有24。
But they're just universally good things like being brave, citizenship, humor, social intelligence, love of learning, empathy, fairness.
但它们都是普遍的好东西，比如勇敢、公民意识、幽默、社交智慧、热爱学习、同理心、公平。
These kind of sets of values that we have.
我们拥有这些价值观。
People differ in how much they value one or the other.
人们对其中之一的重视程度有所不同。
So I could ask you, Andrew, what's better, bravery or humor?
所以我可以问你，安德鲁，勇敢和幽默哪个更好？
Probably both pretty high for you, I would imagine.
我想，这对你来说可能都很高。
But how about prudence versus love of learning?
但谨慎与热爱学习又如何呢？
I have a guess.
我有一个猜测。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
If I had to pick between bravery and humor, I think bravery is probably more important to me.
如果我必须在勇敢和幽默之间做出选择，我认为勇敢对我来说可能更重要。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
See, I'm more humor.
你看，我比较幽默。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, I love humor, but if I had to pick-
我的意思是，我喜欢幽默，但如果我必须选择——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it's sort of like steak and coffee, I'm going steak.
这有点像牛排和咖啡，我要牛排。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You know?
你知道吗？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Well, the point is there are individual differences in this, and there are formal tests you can do online.
嗯，重点是这里面有个体差异，而且你可以在网上做正式的测试。
If you Google the VIA Character Strengths test, you'll see these 24, and you can do one of these very systematic tests to do it.
如果你用谷歌搜索 VIA 性格优势测试，你会看到这 24 项，并且你可以做这些非常系统的测试之一来做到这一点。
But really, just trying to think about what are the values that you value?
但实际上，只是想想想你看重的价值观是什么？
And the ones that come to mind as being particularly about you, the ones that you resonate with, are what somebody like Chris Peterson would call your signature strengths.
那些特别与你有关的、与你产生共鸣的，就是像克里斯·彼得森这样的人所说的你的标志性优势。
They're the ones that when you execute them, you kind of feel like things are meaningful and purposeful, and so on.
当你执行它们时，你会觉得事情是有意义的、有目的的，等等。
And so the idea is that one recipe for a purposeful life at the local level, is trying to engage in behaviors that allow you to use more of these values or strengths.
因此，我们的想法是，在当地实现有意义的生活的秘诀之一，就是尝试采取一些行为，让你更多地利用这些价值观或优势。
And one of my favorite pieces of research that looks at both the power of this and how even though if it seems like that those are hard things to bring in, you should bring them in more, is some work by this woman, Amy Wrzesniewski, who's a professor at the University of Pennsylvania.
我最喜欢的一项研究是宾夕法尼亚大学教授 Amy Wrzesniewski 的一项研究，它既考察了这种力量的力量，也考察了尽管这些东西看起来很难引入，但你应该更多地引入它们。
And she does these studies on what she calls job crafting, which is a practice where you take your normal job description as whatever your job is, and figure out ways that you can infuse your signature strengths into them.
她对所谓的工作塑造进行了这些研究，这是一种实践，你将正常的工作描述视为你的工作是什么，并找出可以将你的标志性优势注入其中的方法。
So you as a podcaster, if your signature strength was bravery, you could bring in guests that maybe feel a little bit intimidating to you.
所以，作为一名播客，如果你的标志性优势是勇敢，你就可以邀请一些可能让你感到有点害怕的嘉宾。
Probably like me, I would imagine.
我想，可能就像我一样。
No, but or you could take on topics that are a little bit harder, that kind of push you a little bit.
不，但是或者你可以选择稍微困难一点的话题，这会给你一点压力。
If your signature strength was humor, you'd add more comedy or make more jokes.
如果你的标志性优势是幽默，你就会添加更多喜剧或讲更多笑话。
If it was love of learning, you'd pick topics that you didn't know anything about, but you dive in, right?
如果是对学习的热爱，你会选择一些你一无所知的话题，但你会全身心投入，对吗？
You take whatever your normal job description is, and you find a way to build in your strengths.
无论你的正常工作描述是什么，你都会找到一种方法来增强你的优势。
And the reason I love Amy's work so much is that she studies signature strengths not in academics like us who have very flexible jobs, or podcasters.
我如此喜欢艾米的工作的原因是，她研究的是像我们这样工作非常灵活的学者或播客的标志性优势。
She studies signature strengths in hospital janitorial staff workers.
她研究医院清洁人员的标志性优势。
These are people who are cleaning the linen in a hospital room or mopping the floors and stuff.
这些人正在医院房间里清洁床单或拖地板之类的东西。
Not a job where you think there's lots of flexibility, or you could build in things like humor and love of learning and this stuff.
这不是一份你认为有很大灵活性的工作，或者你可以建立幽默和热爱学习之类的东西。
But she finds, interestingly, that around a quarter to a third of these janitorial staff workers say that their job is a calling.
但有趣的是，她发现大约四分之一到三分之一的清洁工表示他们的工作是一种召唤。
They love it.
他们喜欢它。
They get a lot of purpose from it.
他们从中得到了很多目的。
And they're the ones that are naturally building in their signature strengths.
他们是那些自然而然地建立自己标志性优势的人。
And in her work, she tells these lovely stories.
在她的作品中，她讲述了这些可爱的故事。
There's a story of a janitorial staff worker who worked in a chemotherapy ward, and if you've been unlucky enough to have cancer and had to have chemotherapy or know someone who did, you know that people tend to get really sick because the medicine makes people really nauseous.
有一个故事是关于一名在化疗病房工作的清洁工的，如果你不幸得了癌症，不得不接受化疗，或者认识接受化疗的人，你就会知道人们往往会生病，因为药物会让人们非常恶心。
So a big part of this guy's job was cleaning up vomit, basically.
所以这个人的大部分工作基本上就是清理呕吐物。
But he said, "My job isn't to clean up vomit.
但他说：“我的工作不是清理呕吐物。
My strengths are humor and social intelligence, and what I do is I make a joke.
我的优势是幽默和社交智慧，我所做的就是开玩笑。
Somebody's having a really crappy day, and I'm going to do something that's going to make them laugh.
有人度过了非常糟糕的一天，而我要做一些让他们发笑的事情。
And if I do that, then I won.
如果我这么做了，那么我就赢了。
It's not my paycheck." And I guess he had a standard joke, which was like, "Oh my God, looks like a big pile of vomit.
这不是我的薪水。”我猜他有一个标准的笑话，就像是，“天啊，看起来像一大堆呕吐物。
Overtime for me." And you're laughing, listeners are probably laughing.
给我加班了。”你在笑，听众可能也在笑。
He's like, "That's my job." I talked to another worker who worked in a coma ward, so this individual couldn't talk to the patients because they're in comas.
他说：“这就是我的工作。”我和另一位在昏迷病房工作的工作人员交谈过，所以这个人无法与病人交谈，因为他们处于昏迷状态。
But her strength was creativity, and so every day she moved the artwork and the plants around, just kind of created some changes, and she thought maybe that would pop people out of their coma.
但她的强项是创造力，所以每天她都会移动艺术品和植物，只是创造一些变化，她认为这也许会让人们从昏迷中清醒过来。
I don't know if that's medically plausible, probably not, but it doesn't matter.
我不知道这在医学上是否合理，可能不是，但这并不重要。
To her, she felt like she was executing her creativity.
对她来说，她觉得自己正在发挥自己的创造力。
And so the moral of this job crafting work is, no matter what your job is, there's probably some room to build in some more purpose if you take some time to think about what are the strengths, what are the things that get you going?
因此，这项工作塑造工作的寓意是，无论你的工作是什么，如果你花一些时间思考你的优势是什么，是什么让你继续前进，那么可能还有一些空间可以实现更多的目标？
If you need a tip, you can kind of Google these things.
如果你需要提示，你可以用谷歌搜索这些东西。
But then how could I infuse that into my normal job description?
但我怎样才能将其融入到我的正常工作描述中呢？
And there's probably a lot more flexibility than you think.
而且灵活性可能比您想象的要大得多。
You don't need to quit your job and become a podcaster to get this flexibility.
您不需要辞去工作并成为一名播客来获得这种灵活性。
Probably whatever you do, there's some window where you can build that in.
也许无论你做什么，都有一些窗口可以让你构建它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's awesome.
太棒了。
Those are awesome stories.
这些都是很棒的故事。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I also was just thinking about the janitor cleaning up the vomit, to restore some dignity to these people that-
我也只是想着看门人清理呕吐物，为这些人恢复一些尊严——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Exactly
正是如此
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
clearly know they're making a mess and humor being the ultimate bridge.
清楚地知道他们正在制造混乱，而幽默是最终的桥梁。
And darn it, why'd you make me have to choose between humor and the other thing?
该死的，你为什么让我必须在幽默和其他东西之间做出选择？
But because humor is so awesome.
但因为幽默实在是太棒了。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
So now you're like, humor's pretty good.
所以现在你会觉得，幽默感很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now I'm rethinking my answer.
现在我正在重新考虑我的答案。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
He's very brave to clean up vomit as well, I think, right?
我想他也很勇敢地清理呕吐物，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And to bring humor to a place where-
并将幽默带到一个地方——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
some people might presume humor's not allowed, but goodness.
有些人可能认为幽默是不允许的，但善良是可以的。
These signature strengths and the list of, you said 24-
这些签名优势和列表，你说24-
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of them, where can people learn more about these signature strengths?
其中，人们可以在哪里了解更多有关这些标志性优势的信息？
I think this would be a really powerful exercise, and we can always find the link and put it in the show note captions, but is there like a place that people can find this stuff?
我认为这将是一个非常强大的练习，我们总是可以找到链接并将其放在节目注释标题中，但是人们可以在一个地方找到这些东西吗？
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
The Values in Action is viacharacterstrengths.org.
行动中的价值观是viacharacterstrengths.org。
So I can share the link, and you can stick it in your show notes.
所以我可以分享该链接，您可以将其粘贴在您的演出笔记中。
But yeah, people can go on there for free and do one of these kind of formal psychometric tests where you measure your strengths, see what they are.
但是，是的，人们可以免费去那里做一种正式的心理测试，你可以衡量自己的优势，看看它们是什么。
And it's a fun website, too, because they give you some suggestions.
这也是一个有趣的网站，因为他们会给你一些建议。
Because some of these values are like prudence is one of them.
因为其中一些价值观就像谨慎一样就是其中之一。
It's like, "How do I exercise prudence?" And these are different things.
就像“我该如何谨慎行事？”这些是不同的事情。
They also make the suggestion, this is a homework assignment I give in my happiness class, of suggesting you do this with a good friend or a romantic partner.
他们还提出建议，这是我在幸福课上布置的一项家庭作业，建议你和一个好朋友或一个浪漫的伴侣一起做这件事。
Have each of you do this and find strengths that you share together, and then you can go on what researchers call a strength date, where if you both have bravery, then that means you guys should do the, I don't know, the obstacle course or do some really scary hike.
让你们每个人都这样做，找到你们共同的优势，然后你们就可以进行研究人员所说的“力量约会”，如果你们都有勇气，那么这意味着你们应该去做，我不知道，障碍训练，或者做一些真正可怕的徒步旅行。
If you both have humor, now you go to a comedy show.
如果你们都很幽默，现在你们就去看喜剧表演。
If you both love learning, now you go to a museum or something.
如果你们都喜欢学习，现在你们就去博物馆什么的。
So you find the thing that's your convergent strengths, and you do something that exercises them.
所以你找到了你的强项，然后做一些可以锻炼它们的事情。
So that means you can use your strengths to get purpose not just in your work, but in your leisure, too.
因此，这意味着您不仅可以利用自己的优势在工作中实现目标，还可以在休闲中实现目标。
And I think this is another spot where we get stuff wrong.
我认为这是我们犯错的另一个地方。
I think a lot of us have work that tends to use our strengths.
我认为我们很多人的工作往往会发挥我们的优势。
We tend to gravitate towards careers, many of us, where we can use our strengths.
我们中的许多人都倾向于选择可以发挥自己优势的职业。
A lot of folks aren't that lucky.
很多人就没那么幸运了。
But in our leisure time, we don't often do that so much, right?
但在我们闲暇的时候，我们并不经常这样做，对吧？
Often our leisure time is plop down, watch Netflix for a lot of folks.
通常我们的闲暇时间都是闲下来的，很多人都会看Netflix。
If you think about how you can build your strengths into your leisure time, it gets even more exciting.
如果您考虑如何在闲暇时间中发挥自己的优势，事情就会变得更加令人兴奋。
So you're talking about working with your hands and doing all this stuff, like build the bravery and the humor into that somehow.
所以你说的是用手工作并做所有这些事情，比如以某种方式将勇气和幽默融入其中。
Now you get your leisure time doing double duty for giving you a sense of purpose and meaning, too.
现在，你的闲暇时间可以承担双重责任，让你有一种目标感和意义感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love doing stuff with my hands, and I also love doing things that are useful to other people.
我喜欢用手做事，也喜欢做对其他人有用的事情。
And years ago, I used to go set up fish tanks for people at their homes.
几年前，我常常去人们家中为他们搭建鱼缸。
And I don't know why, but I just kept setting up all these fish tanks for all these people, and I delighted in it.
我不知道为什么，但我一直为所有这些人设置所有这些鱼缸，我对此感到高兴。
And it makes me realize that I think for everybody, certainly not just me, that we get tremendous pleasure from being useful to others in ways that really resonate with-
这让我意识到，我认为对每个人来说，当然不仅仅是我，我们会从以真正引起共鸣的方式对他人有用中获得巨大的快乐——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
kind of who we feel we are-
我们感觉自己是谁——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and these strengths.
和这些优势。
I think that's kind of the ultimate situation, really.
我认为这确实是最终的情况。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if we're getting paid for it also, great, but you're saying work it into your recreational time as well.
如果我们也能得到报酬，那就太好了，但你是说把它也投入到你的娱乐时间里。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
And I'm glad you brought up this idea of doing for others because we haven't talked about that, but this is another behavioral hack that's huge for happiness, and I think one that we get wrong as a culture in the US, but kind of broadly.
我很高兴你提出了为他人做事的想法，因为我们还没有讨论过这一点，但这是另一种对幸福有巨大影响的行为黑客，我认为作为美国的一种文化，我们犯了错误，但从广义上讲。
There's all this talk about self-care or treat yourself.
所有这些都在谈论自我保健或善待自己。
If you look at any kind of article about happiness that maybe not so evidence-based, talk about self.
如果你看到任何关于幸福的文章，可能不是那么有证据基础，请谈论自我。
If you look at happy people, though, happy people don't spend a lot of time on themselves.
然而，如果你观察快乐的人，就会发现快乐的人不会在自己身上花很多时间。
They tend to be very other-oriented.
他们往往非常以他人为导向。
So controlled for income, happier people donate more money to charity than not so happy people.
在收入受到如此控制的情况下，快乐的人比不快乐的人向慈善机构捐赠更多的钱。
Controlled for the amount of free time people have, happy people tend to volunteer for others, broadly construed, whether that's helping formally or kind of donating time, they tend to help more than not so happy people.
在控制人们拥有的空闲时间的情况下，快乐的人倾向于为他人做志愿者，从广义上讲，无论是正式的帮助还是捐赠时间，他们往往会帮助更多快乐的人。
That again, correlation, it could be doing nice stuff for others helps you become happy.
再次强调，相关性，为他人做好事可以帮助你变得快乐。
It could be that if you're happy, you do nice stuff for others.
如果你感到快乐，你可能会为别人做一些好事。
And for sure, that link is true.
可以肯定的是，该链接是真实的。
There is this thing called the feel good, do good effect.
有一种东西叫感觉好，效果好。
But lots of experiments have sort of forced people to do nice stuff for others and found that it winds up making them happier.
但许多实验都迫使人们为他人做些好事，并发现这最终会让他们更快乐。
One study by Lara Aknin and colleagues did this study where they walk up to people on the street and hand them 20 bucks.
Lara Aknin 及其同事进行了一项研究，他们走到街上的人面前，递给他们 20 美元。
So it's an awesome study to be in if you're some undergrad walking around campus like, "Oh, cool, 20 bucks." But then you'll be told how to spend it.
因此，如果你是一名本科生，在校园里走来走去，说“哦，太酷了，20 美元”，那么这是一项很棒的研究。但随后你会被告知如何使用它。
You either have to spend the 20 bucks to treat yourself, do something nice for yourself, or spend the 20 bucks on someone else, do something nice for other people.
你要么花这20块钱来善待自己，为自己做一些好事，要么花这20块钱给别人，为别人做一些好事。
And people at the end of the day, even kind of at later time scales, report being happier when they spend the exact same amount of money on someone else versus themselves.
人们在一天结束时，甚至是在以后的时间尺度上，都会报告说，当他们在别人身上花与自己花同样数量的钱时，他们会感到更快乐。
And I think this has a big message, because sometimes, I don't know, if you're like you, but if you're having a bad day, it's like, "Oh, I'm going to treat myself for something." I might buy something or spend some money on myself, buy myself a kind of cool experience.
我认为这传达了一个重要信息，因为有时，我不知道，如果你像你一样，但如果你度过了糟糕的一天，就像，“哦，我会为自己做点什么。”我可能会买一些东西或者花一些钱给自己，给自己买一种很酷的体验。
But if you gifted that experience to your brother or your good friend, your coworker, your spouse, it might actually make you happier than having that experience yourself, which is really counterintuitive, but it's what the data show.
但如果你把这种经历送给你的兄弟或你的好朋友、你的同事、你的配偶，它实际上可能会让你比自己拥有这种经历更快乐，这确实违反直觉，但这就是数据所显示的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've discovered this in recent years.
我是近几年才发现这一点的。
I love giving gifts.
我喜欢送礼物。
It's the best feeling.
这是最好的感觉。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's the best feeling.
这是最好的感觉。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Here's another hack you can do to kind of help others, oddly, is to ask for help, which is something we forget is quite powerful.
这是你可以做的另一种帮助他人的技巧，奇怪的是，寻求帮助，这是我们忘记的非常强大的东西。
Think about the last time somebody asked you for advice, advice that you could give.
想想上次有人向你寻求建议时，你可以提供的建议。
Probably felt pretty good.
大概感觉还不错吧。
It probably made you feel a little competent and whatever.
这可能会让你觉得自己有点能干之类的。
Probably liked helping that person.
可能喜欢帮助那个人。
You get the happiness boost from helping that person.
通过帮助那个人，你会获得幸福感。
We forget that asking other people for help, especially when we know they can kind of do it, can be a way to sort of give them a little bit gift and make them happy.
我们忘记了向别人寻求帮助，尤其是当我们知道他们可以做到的时候，可以成为给他们一点礼物并让他们快乐的一种方式。
This is one that can be hard for me because I like to think about my competence all the time, and I don't want to be a burden on people.
这对我来说可能很难，因为我喜欢一直考虑自己的能力，而且我不想成为别人的负担。
I don't like being vulnerable.
我不喜欢脆弱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Self-sufficiency.
自给自足。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Self-sufficiency.
自给自足。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
But it turns out, especially if you're a particularly self-sufficient person, when you ask people for help, it can be really useful.
但事实证明，特别是如果你是一个特别自给自足的人，当你向别人寻求帮助时，这真的很有用。
So that's another one.
这是另一件事。
Because I know some folks listening right now might not have the financial means to be donating money or the time affluence and wherewithal to be doing gifts and these things, but remember that asking for help can be a gift to someone else, and it's a little social connection, too.
因为我知道现在正在听的一些人可能没有经济能力来捐款，也没有足够的时间和资金来做礼物之类的事情，但请记住，寻求帮助可以是给别人的礼物，而且这也是一点社会联系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's awesome.
太棒了。
I will also say your suggestion that people fill out the Signature Strengths site and then use that as a first date incentive, I look forward to the day when a comment comes through on YouTube that people were married as a consequence of a first date.
我还会说你的建议，人们填写签名优势网站，然后将其用作第一次约会的激励，我期待有一天 YouTube 上出现评论，说人们因第一次约会而结婚。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Tinder's going out of business if we start doing these strength dates, I bet.
我敢打赌，如果我们开始进行这些强度约会，Tinder 就会倒闭。
So yeah.
所以是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Every once in a while, someone will contact me and say that they watched the fertility episode, and I did a male and female fertility episode-
每隔一段时间，就会有人联系我，说看了生育剧集，我做了男女生育剧集——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and that they now have a child on the way.
他们现在即将迎来一个孩子。
I don't ask questions about when the child was conceived or what the relationship-
我不会问孩子是什么时候怀上的，也不会问他们之间的关系——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to the fertility episode was.
到了生育期。
I'm assuming it was the information in the fertility episode.
我猜想这是生育事件中的信息。
But I always I'm like, "Whoa, that's wild." So I bet you that at some point in the future, I'm creating a little bit of a time capsule here.
但我总是会说，“哇，这太疯狂了。”所以我敢打赌，在未来的某个时候，我会在这里创造一个时间胶囊。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You'll get contacted, or something will legitimately fall into the comments about people deciding to spend their life together as a consequence of having done the Signature Strength first date.
您会收到联系，或者某些内容会合法地出现在有关人们因完成“签名力量”第一次约会而决定共度一生的评论中。
You heard it here first from Dr. Laurie Santos.
您首先是从劳里·桑托斯博士那里听到的。
And in all seriousness, Laurie, Dr. Santos, I just want to say thank you so much for doing the work you do.
严肃地说，劳里、桑托斯博士，我只想对你们所做的工作表示非常感谢。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's awesome, awesome work.
这太棒了，很棒的工作。
What's more important than our emotional state and to strive to be happy, but to understand happiness so that we're not pursuing something that either doesn't exist or that is an illusion that's been created for us.
比我们的情绪状态和努力快乐更重要的是理解快乐，这样我们就不会追求不存在的东西，或者是为我们创造的幻觉。
Really, I think one of the amazing things about what you do is you realistically frame happiness as attainable, but you frame it in the science of how to actually get it-
真的，我认为你所做的事情中最令人惊奇的事情之一就是你现实地把幸福定义为可以实现的，但你用如何真正获得它的科学来定义它——
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and what it means.
以及它的含义。
And as people could probably detect, I love, love, love that you've studied this thing that we call happiness and other aspects of emotion and social cognition in the context of not just humans, but our non-human friends, cats and dogs, and use that knowledge, building up from basic understanding of how neural circuits and psychology work to a place that humans can really act on.
人们可能会发现，我爱、爱、爱你不仅在人类的背景下，而且在我们的非人类朋友、猫和狗的背景下研究了我们称之为幸福的东西以及情感和社会认知的其他方面，并利用这些知识，从对神经回路和心理学如何工作的基本理解建立到人类可以真正采取行动的地方。
And you've given us a tremendous number of actionable tools today.
今天，您为我们提供了大量可行的工具。
Too many to list off here all at once.
太多了，无法一次在这里列出。
We'll put them in the timestamps as tools so that people can get right to them and review them.
我们会将它们作为工具放入时间戳中，以便人们可以直接使用它们并进行审查。
But the social connection piece, obviously, the understanding of the contrast with difficult things to arrive at better states and different timescales and doing for others and just so much.
但显然，社会联系部分是理解与困难的事情的对比，以达到更好的状态和不同的时间尺度，并为他人做这么多。
There's too much here for me to list off without adding another 30 minutes to this podcast, and no one wants to hear me speak anymore.
这里的内容太多，我无法一一列出，除非在此播客中再添加 30 分钟，而且没有人想再听我讲话了。
So I'm just going to say thank you for the research that you have done and continue to do.
因此，我只想对您已经完成并继续进行的研究表示感谢。
Thank you for doing your podcast.
感谢您做播客。
I'm going to start listening to your podcast.
我要开始听你的播客。
I love these issues, and I think they're super timely and important for everybody, and thanks for taking time out of your schedule to come here and educate us today.
我喜欢这些问题，我认为它们对每个人来说都是非常及时和重要的，感谢您今天抽出时间来到这里对我们进行教育。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Thanks so much.
非常感谢。
It was a blast.
真是太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's do it again.
让我们再做一次。
Dr. Laurie Santos:
劳里·桑托斯博士：
Definitely.
绝对是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Laurie Santos.
感谢您参加今天与 Laurie Santos 博士的讨论。
To learn more about her laboratory's work, her teachings, and to find a link to her excellent podcast, please see the show note captions.
要了解有关她实验室的工作、她的教学的更多信息，并找到她精彩播客的链接，请参阅节目说明文字。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
Please also click follow for the podcast on both Spotify and Apple, and on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.
还请点击关注 Spotify 和 Apple 上的播客，在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们留下五星级的评论。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or topics or guests that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab Podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客、主题或嘉宾有意见，希望我在 Huberman 实验室播客中考虑，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
And if you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 hubermanlab。
So that's Instagram, X, formerly known as Twitter, Facebook, Threads, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X，以前称为 Twitter、Facebook、Threads 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab Podcast, but much of which is distinct from the content on the Huberman Lab Podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容不同。
Again, that's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
再说一次，这就是所有社交媒体平台上的 hubermanlab。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这本书是我花了五年多时间编写的，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验。
And it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它涵盖了从睡眠到运动再到压力控制的所有协议，以及与注意力和动机相关的协议，当然，我为所包含的协议提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." And if you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes everything from podcast summaries to what we call protocols in the form of brief one- to three-page PDFs that cover things like how to optimize your sleep, how to regulate your dopamine.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括从播客摘要到我们所说的协议（以简短的一到三页 PDF 形式）的所有内容，其中涵盖了如何优化您的睡眠、如何调节多巴胺等内容。
We also have protocols related to deliberate cold exposure, get a lot of questions about that, deliberate heat exposure, and on and on.
我们还有与故意冷暴露相关的协议，收到了很多关于此的问题，故意热暴露等等。
Again, all available at completely zero cost.
同样，所有这些都可以完全零成本获得。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the Menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to Newsletter, and enter your email.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的“菜单”选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯，然后输入您的电子邮件即可。
And I should mention that we do not share your email with anybody.
我应该指出的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Laurie Santos.
再次感谢您参加今天与 Laurie Santos 博士的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。