Dr. Kelly Starrett: How to Improve Your Mobility, Posture & Flexibility
Andrew Huberman: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
Andrew Huberman：欢迎来到 Huberman 实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Dr. Kelly Starrett.
今天我的客人是凯利·斯塔雷特博士。
Dr. Kelly Starrett is a Doctor of Physical Therapy and one of the world's experts in movement.
凯利·斯塔雷特 (Kelly Starrett) 博士是物理治疗博士，也是世界运动专家之一。
That is, he teaches people how to move better for the sake of sport, for the sake of recreational fitness and for everyday living.
也就是说，他教人们如何为了运动、休闲健身和日常生活而更好地运动。
Today we discuss several important topics, including how best to warm up for any and all workouts.
今天我们讨论几个重要的主题，包括如何最好地热身任何和所有的锻炼。
He also tells us how to improve our movement patterns for cardiovascular exercise, for sport, for resistance training, across the board, how to move better and how to improve our range of motion with the minimal amount of time investment.
他还告诉我们如何全面改善心血管锻炼、运动、阻力训练的运动模式，如何更好地运动以及如何用最少的时间投入来改善我们的运动范围。
We hear a lot about different forms of stretching.
我们听到很多关于不同形式的拉伸的说法。
We hear about dynamic stretching, we hear about passive stretching.
我们听说过动态拉伸，也听说过被动拉伸。
Dr. Starrett explains how to improve our range of motion across our entire body in the best possible ways, as well as how to offset or repair any imbalances that stem from musculoskeletal problems or from neural issues and how to reduce soreness, how to improve our posture, seated, standing and movement-based posture.
Starrett 博士解释了如何以最佳方式改善我们整个身体的运动范围，以及如何抵消或修复由肌肉骨骼问题或神经问题引起的任何不平衡，以及如何减少酸痛，如何改善我们的姿势，坐姿、站立和基于运动的姿势。
We talk about nutrition.
我们谈论营养。
So today's episode covers an immense amount of actionable information that I'm certain all of you will benefit from.
所以今天的节目涵盖了大量可操作的信息，我相信你们所有人都会从中受益。
Dr. Kelly Starrett has authored several bestselling books, some of which you may have heard of, such as "Supple Leopard." He was actually one of the first people to become synonymous with the use of a lacrosse ball or foam roller.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士撰写了几本畅销书，您可能听说过其中一些，例如《Suple Leopard》。他实际上是最早成为长曲棍球或泡沫轴代名词的人之一。
But really, even though a lot of people have talked about those, what he was really doing there was to emphasize the importance of understanding the relationship between the skeleton, the muscles, the nervous system and the fascia.
但实际上，尽管很多人都在谈论这些，但他真正所做的是强调理解骨骼、肌肉、神经系统和筋膜之间关系的重要性。
And today we also talk about fascia, which is an incredibly interesting and important topic.
今天我们还谈论筋膜，这是一个非常有趣且重要的话题。
In addition to consulting and coaching for various college level and professional athletes and teams, Dr. Kelly Starrett and his wife, Juliet Starrett, co-own The Ready State.
除了为各种大学水平和专业运动员和团队提供咨询和指导外，凯利·斯塔雷特 (Kelly Starrett) 博士和他的妻子朱丽叶·斯塔雷特 (Juliet Starrett) 共同拥有 The Ready State。
We provide a link to The Ready State in the show note captions.
我们在节目注释标题中提供了“就绪状态”的链接。
There they have a plethora of useful information and actionable protocols.
他们在那里拥有大量有用的信息和可操作的协议。
I should mention years ago I took one of the courses from The Ready State.
我应该提到几年前我参加了“准备状态”的一门课程。
It's a really interesting course that we touch on some of the protocols from today.
这是一门非常有趣的课程，我们从今天开始接触一些协议。
It's all about pelvic floor.
这都是关于骨盆底的。
So whether you're male or female and regardless of age, understanding your pelvic floor, how to take care of your pelvic floor in the context of exercise, posture, et cetera is vitally important for all sorts of vitally important bodily functions.
因此，无论您是男性还是女性，也无论年龄，了解您的盆底、如何在运动、姿势等方面照顾盆底对于各种至关重要的身体功能都至关重要。
So today we also touch on that, and by the end of today's episode, I'm certain that you will be armed with a number of new, highly actionable protocols.
因此，今天我们也谈到了这一点，在今天的节目结束时，我确信您将掌握许多新的、高度可操作的协议。
I should emphasize these protocols take very little time and have an outsized positive effect on your movement, your posture and your overall health.
我应该强调这些方案只需要很少的时间，并且对您的运动、姿势和整体健康产生巨大的积极影响。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
Our first sponsor is Maui Nui Venison.
我们的第一个赞助商是 Maui Nui Venison。
Maui Nui Venison is 100% wild-harvested venison from the island of Maui, and it is the most nutrient dense and delicious red meat available.
毛伊努伊鹿肉是 100% 来自毛伊岛的野生鹿肉，是营养最丰富、最美味的红肉。
I've spoken before on this podcast about the fact that most of us should be consuming about one gram of quality protein per pound of body weight every day.
我之前在这个播客上谈到过这样一个事实：我们大多数人每天每磅体重应该摄入大约一克优质蛋白质。
That protein provides critical building blocks for things like muscle repair and synthesis, but it also promotes overall health.
这种蛋白质为肌肉修复和合成等提供了关键的组成部分，但它也促进了整体健康。
Given the importance of muscle tissue as an organ, eating enough quality protein each day is also a terrific way to stave off hunger.
鉴于肌肉组织作为器官的重要性，每天摄入足够的优质蛋白质也是避免饥饿的好方法。
One of the key things, however, is to make sure that you're getting enough quality protein without ingesting excess calories.
然而，关键的事情之一是确保您获得足够的优质蛋白质而不摄入过多的热量。
Maui Nui Venison has an extremely high-quality protein-per-calorie ratio, so that getting one gram of quality protein per pound of body weight is both easy and doesn't cause you to ingest an excess of calories.
毛伊努伊鹿肉具有极高的优质蛋白质/卡路里比例，因此每磅体重获取一克优质蛋白质既容易又不会导致您摄入过量的卡路里。
Also, Maui Nui Venison is absolutely delicious.
另外，茂宜岛鹿肉绝对美味。
They have venison steaks, ground venison and venison bone broth.
他们有鹿肉排、鹿肉末和鹿骨汤。
I personally like all of those.
我个人喜欢所有这些。
In fact, I probably eat a Maui Nui Venison burger pretty much every day, and occasionally I'll swap that for a Maui Nui steak.
事实上，我可能几乎每天都会吃毛伊努伊鹿肉汉堡，偶尔我会把它换成毛伊努伊牛排。
Responsible population management of the axis deer on the island of Maui means they cannot go beyond a particular harvest capacity.
对毛伊岛上的轴鹿进行负责任的种群管理意味着它们不能超出特定的收获能力。
Signing up for a membership is therefore the best way to ensure access to their high-quality meat.
因此，注册会员是确保获得高品质肉类的最佳方式。
If you'd like to try Maui Nui Venison, you can go to mauinuivenison.com/huberman to get 20% off your membership or first order.
如果您想尝试 Maui Nui 鹿肉，您可以访问 mauinuivenison.com/huberman 享受会员资格或首次订单 20% 的折扣。
Again, that's mauinuivenison.com/huberman.
同样，这是 mauinuivenison.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Joovv.
今天的节目也是Joovv给我们带来的。
Joovv makes medical grade red light therapy devices.
Joovv 生产医疗级红光治疗设备。
Now if there's one thing that I have consistently emphasized on this podcast, it's the incredible impact that light can have on our biology.
如果我在这个播客中一直强调一件事，那就是光对我们的生物学产生的令人难以置信的影响。
Now, in addition to sunlight, red light and near infrared light have been shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of cellular and organ health, including faster muscle recovery, improved skin health and wound healing, improvements in acne, meaning reductions in acne, reduced pain and inflammation, improved mitochondrial function, and even improving visual function itself.
现在，除了阳光之外，红光和近红外光已被证明对改善细胞和器官健康的许多方面具有积极作用，包括更快的肌肉恢复、改善皮肤健康和伤口愈合、改善痤疮，这意味着减少痤疮、减轻疼痛和炎症、改善线粒体功能，甚至改善视觉功能本身。
What sets Joovv lights apart and why they're my preferred red light therapy device is that they use clinically proven wavelengths, meaning specific wavelengths of red light and near infrared light in specific combinations to trigger the optimal cellular adaptations.
Joovv 灯的与众不同之处以及它们成为我首选红光治疗设备的原因在于它们使用经过临床验证的波长，这意味着特定波长的红光和近红外光以特定的组合来触发最佳的细胞适应。
Personally, I use the Joovv whole body panel about three to four times per week, typically in the morning, but sometimes in the afternoon.
就我个人而言，我每周使用 Joovv 全身面板大约三到四次，通常在早上，但有时在下午。
And I use the Joovv handheld light both at home and when I travel.
我在家和旅行时都使用 Joovv 手持灯。
If you'd like to try Joovv, you can go to Joovv, spelled joovv.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Joovv，可以访问 Joovv（拼写为 joovv.com/huberman）。
Joovv is offering an exclusive discount to all Huberman Lab listeners, with up to $400 off select Joovv products.
Joovv 向所有 Huberman Lab 听众提供独家折扣，部分 Joovv 产品最高可享受 400 美元的折扣。
Again, that's joovv.com/huberman to get up to $400 off.
再次强调，前往 joovv.com/huberman 可获得高达 400 美元的折扣。
And now for my discussion with Dr. Kelly Starrett.
现在我与凯利·斯塔雷特博士进行讨论。
Dr. Kelly Starrett, welcome.
凯利·斯塔莱特博士，欢迎。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Thank you, my friend.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：谢谢你，我的朋友。
Andrew Huberman: I've been wanting to get you on here for a long time for many reasons, not the least of which is that you've just pioneered so many areas of health and fitness that I don't even know where to start, frankly.
Andrew Huberman：我长期以来一直想让你加入这里，原因有很多，其中最重要的是你刚刚开创了如此多的健康和健身领域，坦率地说，我什至不知道从哪里开始。
But let's jump in with the big M, with movement.
但让我们用大M 来加入运动吧。
You're an expert in dissecting complex movement, figuring out how people can move better and also figuring out how people who are doing what they think are simple movements are actually making their life either more complex or more painful than it needs to be.
您是剖析复杂运动的专家，了解人们如何才能更好地运动，并了解人们在做他们认为简单的运动时实际上如何使他们的生活变得更加复杂或更痛苦。
So you're also known for helping people with so-called mobility, which of course falls under the umbrella of movement.
因此，您还因帮助所谓的流动性人士而闻名，这当然属于流动性的范畴。
And I can't see somebody do a foam roll or anything with a lacrosse ball where they're loosening up, or talking about fascia without also thinking about you.
我看不出有人在做泡沫轴或用长曲棍球放松时做任何事情，或者在谈论筋膜时不考虑你。
So that should frame today's conversation at least partially well.
因此，这应该至少部分地框架了今天的谈话。
To kick things off, when you look at how most people sit, walk and do their "exercise resistance training" and/or cardiovascular, hopefully, and cardiovascular training, what are some of the most common problems that you see?
首先，当您观察大多数人如何坐、走路和进行“运动阻力训练”和/或心血管训练时，您看到的最常见问题是什么？
Is it imbalance, like leaning to one side?
是否不平衡，例如向一侧倾斜？
Is it that their bodies are trained into asymmetry?
难道他们的身体被训练成不对称的吗？
Is there any way to kind of mass diagnose everybody all at once in this first question.
在第一个问题中，有什么方法可以同时对每个人进行大规模诊断吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Let me borrow a couple analogies from one of my favorite people, Katy Bowman.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：让我借用我最喜欢的人之一凯蒂·鲍曼的几个类比。
And first thing is, she will point out, and it's not a perfect analogy, so bear with us.
首先，她会指出，这不是一个完美的类比，所以请耐心等待。
It's this notion of mechanotransduction, which means that at a cellular level, your tissues, some of your tissues specifically need mechanical input to express themselves.
这就是机械转导的概念，这意味着在细胞水平上，您的组织，您的某些组织特别需要机械输入来表达自己。
You want a strong tendon.
你想要一根强壮的肌腱。
How do you get a strong tendon?
如何获得强壮的肌腱？
You have to load it, right?
你必须加载它，对吗？
Does it do tendon things?
它对跟腱有作用吗？
Is it lengthening under load?
负载下是否会变长？
Does it express shortening under load?
它是否表示负载下的缩短？
Is it isometric holds?
是等距保持吗？
So we can start at that level.
所以我们可以从这个级别开始。
She points out that if you put a, and again, not a perfect analogy, but if you put an orca into captivity, over a while, that orca fin will start to fold over.
她指出，如果你再打一个不完美的类比，但如果你把逆戟鲸圈养一段时间，逆戟鲸的鳍就会开始折叠。
Folded fin syndrome — it's nicer than floppy fin syndrome.
折叠鳍综合症——比松软鳍综合症好。
That's hurtful.
这很伤人。
And what you're doing is when you alter the environment that this amazing animal lives in, it's not swimming, it's not fighting, it's not hunting.
当你改变这种神奇动物生活的环境时，你所做的就是，它不再游泳，不再打斗，不再狩猎。
You're not loading the base of that fin.
您没有加载该鳍的底部。
And so what happens is that collagen breaks down and we start to see changes in that, in that expression of that.
所以发生的事情是胶原蛋白分解，我们开始看到它的变化，它的表达。
So what we can start to say is again, not romanticizing the Pleistocene era when human beings were paleo, but what is it that we need in our daily lives to maintain the integrity of our tissue systems?
所以我们可以再次开始说的是，不要把人类处于古时代的更新世浪漫化，而是我们在日常生活中需要什么来维持我们组织系统的完整性？
Exposure, so that our brain says this is safe.
暴露，让我们的大脑说这是安全的。
So that you actually have tendons and ligaments that can do what tendons, ligaments can do, and fascia that is, can be springy.
这样你实际上就有了肌腱和韧带，可以做肌腱、韧带可以做的事情，也就是说，筋膜可以是有弹性的。
If, to borrow another sort of Katy Bowmanism, if we have a movement language, an actual language made up of words, how many words are you using today?
如果，借用另一种凯蒂·鲍曼主义，如果我们有一种运动语言，一种由单词组成的实际语言，那么您今天使用了多少单词？
And most of us aren't using that many words.
我们大多数人都不会使用那么多单词。
So very few words.
所以字数很少。
So I sit, I stand, I walk very slowly.
所以我坐着，站着，走得很慢。
I sit, I stand, I walk very slowly.
我坐着，我站着，我走得很慢。
So everything is just in those few.
所以一切都只是那几个人的事。
And then I go exercise using the same words.
然后我用同样的话去锻炼。
I'm on the exercise bike, right?
我在骑健身车，对吗？
I'm on an elliptical, which doesn't actually ask me to have any hip extension.
我在椭圆机上，实际上并不要求我进行任何髋部伸展。
And suddenly you can see that our movement language, which we're really codifying under intensity, load, right?
突然间你可以看到我们的动作语言，我们实际上是在强度、负荷下编码的，对吧？
We're becoming very competent in these adaptation positions, sitting, what ends up happening?
我们在这些适应位置上变得非常有能力，坐着，最终会发生什么？
Well, we start to see that our bodies are adaptation machines, so they just begin to adapt.
好吧，我们开始看到我们的身体是适应机器，所以它们才刚刚开始适应。
And so suddenly what we have is a human body that doesn't express normative range; the brain may not think that that range is even safe and put there.
突然之间，我们所拥有的人体就无法表达正常范围了；大脑可能不认为这个范围是安全的并放在那里。
Then we start to sort of minimize the movement choices that the brain has, the movement options that the brain has.
然后我们开始最小化大脑的运动选择，大脑的运动选择。
So really the question is, you know, at low loads, let's establish things.
所以真正的问题是，你知道，在低负载下，让我们建立一些东西。
At low loads and low speeds, you can get away with everything.
在低负载和低速度下，您可以摆脱一切。
Why?
为什么？
Because this body is rad.
因为这个身体是rad的。
And it's designed, it's durable, it's not fragile.
而且它经过精心设计，耐用且不易碎。
It's designed to be ridden hard and put away wet for a long time.
它的设计适合长时间骑行和潮湿存放。
Remember when you were 17, you would cut off your hand, it would grow back the next day?
还记得17岁时，你会砍掉自己的手，第二天它又会长出来吗？
You would think about the falls you took skating and you'd be like, oh, that sucked.
你会想到你滑冰时摔倒的经历，你会想，哦，那太糟糕了。
The next day you put your shoulder back in, you just kind of respond.
第二天，你把肩膀放回去，你就会做出反应。
So what is it that we need to put into our movement diet?
那么我们需要在运动饮食中加入什么呢？
And then we can start to separate out, should that be exercise or should that be movement?
然后我们就可以开始区分，这应该是锻炼还是应该是运动？
And now the real filter that we should be beginning these real and earnest conversations about is what is it in the environment?
现在我们应该开始这些真实而认真的对话的真正过滤器是它在环境中是什么？
Given that I'm a busy working person, and maybe I have some agency in the morning, and maybe I have some agency in the afternoon, but let's take exercise out of it.
鉴于我是一个忙碌的工作人员，也许我早上有一些活动，也许我下午有一些活动，但让我们锻炼一下吧。
The one-hour, discrete, working on zone-two cardio, working all right by evidence-based practice.
一小时的、离散的、二区有氧运动，通过基于证据的练习效果很好。
What should I be doing the rest of the time?
剩下的时间我应该做什么？
So for example, one of the things that we're huge fans of in the evening is sitting on the ground for 20 or 30 minutes.
举个例子，我们晚上最喜欢做的事情之一就是坐在地上 20 或 30 分钟。
Andrew Huberman: In what?
安德鲁·休伯曼：在什么方面？
Cross-legged?
盘腿？
Squatting?
蹲着？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yes, long sit, side saddle, 99.
Kelly Starrett 博士：是的，长坐，侧鞍，99。
Anytime you need to fidget, fidget, and what you'll see is you start to accumulate exposure, which I think in my worldview is the first order of magnitude in problem solving is how do we have the human be exposed to the thing we're trying to change or improve or restore normative ranges.
任何时候你需要坐立不安，坐立不安，你会看到你开始积累暴露，我认为在我的世界观中，解决问题的第一个数量级是我们如何让人类接触到我们试图改变或改善或恢复规范范围的事物。
Andrew Huberman: So that would be in the evening, just getting down on the floor.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：那就是晚上，躺在地板上。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah, that behavior alone...
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的，仅此行为......
cultures that toilet on the ground, sleep on the ground, we start to see fall risk in our elderly populations attenuate to zero, approximate zero.
在地上厕所、睡在地上的文化中，我们开始看到老年人跌倒的风险衰减到零，接近于零。
Lower hip OA, lower low back OA, and it may just be that we're using and touching some shapes and our bodies are saying, hey, let's keep that around, let's normalize what the hip should be able to do.
下髋部 OA、下腰部 OA，可能只是我们正在使用和触摸某些形状，而我们的身体会说，嘿，让我们保留它，让我们规范髋部应该能够做的事情。
In terms of your connective tissue, think about, you know, the idea here is that we're, we're loading you passively, actively, whatever, that you're saying to your brain, muscle, you know...
就你的结缔组织而言，想一想，你知道，这里的想法是，我们正在被动地、主动地给你施加负荷，无论什么，你对你的大脑、肌肉说的话，你知道......
this is a quote from one of my PT instructors, and this is really important.
这是我的一位 PT 教练的一句话，这非常重要。
If people take this away, they should listen to this.
如果人们拿走这个，他们应该听听这个。
Muscles and tissues are like obedient dogs.
肌肉和组织就像听话的狗。
At no age do you stop adapting, at no age do you stop healing, those things slow down, it's a little bit harder to have the same adaptation we did.
在任何年龄你都不会停止适应，在任何年龄你都不会停止愈合，这些事情都会变慢，要像我们一样适应会有点困难。
We weren't in full-fledged puberty, but you can always adapt.
我们还没有处于成熟的青春期，但你总是可以适应的。
In the first order of business if you spend 20 or 30 minutes sitting on the ground, you're going to start to see that hamstrings start to feel better, my hips start to feel a little better because I'm just spending time in these ranges and my body's going to start to adapt as I increase my movement language.
首先，如果你坐在地上 20 或 30 分钟，你会开始发现腿筋开始感觉更好，我的臀部开始感觉好一点，因为我只是在这些范围内花费时间，随着我增加运动语言，我的身体将开始适应。
Andrew Huberman: Would you extend what you just said to, like if somebody has a hardwood floor and maybe a little low pile rug or something like that, and they're going to, I don't know, watch a podcast or a movie or a show in the evening, they stretch out in, you know, like on their, on their belly, like sort of up dog or cobra or whatever it's called.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你能延续一下你刚才所说的，比如如果有人有硬木地板，可能还有一点低绒地毯或类似的东西，我不知道，他们会在晚上看播客、电影或节目，他们会伸展身体，你知道，就像在他们的肚子上，就像某种向上的狗或眼镜蛇或无论它叫什么。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Sure, sure,
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：当然，当然，
Andrew Huberman: So, basically any kind of movement where you're on the ground, any kind of squatting, and maybe they start to stretch a bit here and there.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以，基本上任何一种在地面上的运动，任何一种蹲下，也许它们都会开始在这里和那里伸展一点。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Oh, so now we're into the real magic, the behavior.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：哦，现在我们进入真正的魔力，即行为。
Where are we going to stack these behaviors?
我们要把这些行为堆积在哪里？
So, if you have to get up and down off the ground plus one, right, I got to get up and down off the ground every day.
所以，如果你必须离地上下加一，对吧，我每天都必须离地上下。
So if you're an older person who maybe hasn't gotten off the ground, and I'm older, I'm just talking about over 50, you may not have gotten them down off the ground for a hundred years, you just don't do it anymore, right.
所以，如果你是一个年纪较大的人，可能还没有起步，而我年纪更大了，我只是说超过 50 岁，你可能一百年都没有让它们起步，你只是不再这样做了，对吧。
We want to hear why I think MMA is so amazing — you have to get up and down off the ground a lot, right.
我们想听听为什么我认为 MMA 如此神奇——你必须经常在地面上起落，对吧。
If you do go to jits, right.
如果你确实去吉茨，对吧。
How about yoga?
瑜伽怎么样？
How about pilates?
普拉提怎么样？
You're like, wow, there's a lot of time organizing on the ground.
你会想，哇，有很多时间在现场进行组织。
So a lot of people, Ida Rolf, really, said, hey, how do we help the person organizing gravity first and foremost, right.
所以很多人，艾达·罗尔夫，真的说，嘿，我们如何帮助人们首先组织重力，对吧。
Then we have someone like Phillip Beach, who is this incredible, he wrote this book on functional embryology, which I highly recommend, called "Muscles and Meridians," but his hypothesis is that one of the ways that the body tunes itself is by being on the ground again, restoring native ranges, re-approximating joints, kneeling, walking, and if you just took a step back and said, what's it looked like for the last 10,000 years?
还有像菲利普·比奇（Phillip Beach）这样的人，他太不可思议了，他写了一本关于功能胚胎学的书，我强烈推荐，书名叫《肌肉和经络》，但他的假设是，身体自我调整的方式之一是再次落地，恢复自然范围，重新接近关节，跪下，行走，如果你退后一步说，过去一万年它是什么样子？
You know, when have we, 10,000 years ago, my understanding is that I'm a little fatter, your femur's a little longer, but we're pretty much the same people, maybe I don't digest milk yet, maybe that's the understanding, but ultimately what behaviors have changed?
你知道，我们什么时候在一万年前，我的理解是我胖了一点，你的股骨长了一点，但我们几乎是同一个人，也许我还没有消化牛奶，也许这就是理解，但最终行为发生了改变？
We're off the ground.
我们离开了地面。
And so this is an easy, don't need any equipment, can drop this in, I can answer my emails, watch TV, that seems like the how we're going to improve and be able to start to untangle this very complex corridor, not when people have a lot going on.
所以这是一个简单的，不需要任何设备，可以把它放进去，我可以回复我的电子邮件，看电视，这似乎是我们将如何改进并能够开始理清这个非常复杂的走廊，而不是当人们有很多事情发生的时候。
Andrew Huberman: I love this.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢这个。
Um, you know, and as you pointed out--
嗯，你知道，正如你所指出的——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --And, as you pointed out, sorry...
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——正如您所指出的，抱歉……
the roller's already there.
滚筒已经在那里了。
So, you're sitting there and the roller's there.
所以，你坐在那里，滚轮就在那里。
Another barrier to adherence knocked out.
另一个阻碍坚持的障碍被消除了。
So you're like, oh, I might as well just, what's stiff today?
所以你会想，哦，我不妨问一下，今天有什么困难吗？
What hurts today?
今天怎么痛了？
How could I have some self-soothing input, and when we're working at high levels of performance, like the highest levels, these range of motion like keeping you being able to access the full sort of arsenal of what you can do with your body, this movement solution's sort of like Ido Portal plus the Olympics, right?
我怎样才能有一些自我安慰的输入，当我们以高水平的表现工作时，比如最高水平，这些运动范围就像让你能够访问你可以用你的身体做的所有事情，这个运动解决方案有点像 Ido Portal 加上奥运会，对吗？
You would see that this is an easy way for our elite athletes to work and integrate without having to do another thing.
您会发现，这是我们的精英运动员工作和融入的一种简单方法，而无需做其他事情。
Andrew Huberman: So what I'm getting here is that everybody, regardless of age, should get down on the ground once a day.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以我想说的是，每个人，无论年龄大小，都应该每天趴在地上一次。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Hundred percent.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：百分之百。
Andrew Huberman: And get up off the ground at some point.
Andrew Huberman：并在某个时候站起来。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: You can use whatever you want to help you get up and down off the ground, so those of you listening, you're like, I can't do that, you know, there's a test we write about in the book that if you just do crisscross applesauce standing, you should be able to lower yourself to the ground and stand back up without using your hands.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：你可以使用任何你想要的东西来帮助你从地上站起来和下来，所以你们听的人会说，我做不到，你知道，我们在书中写了一个测试，如果你只是做十字形苹果酱站立，你应该能够将自己降低到地面并站起来，而无需用手。
Andrew Huberman: Okay, so cross the feet, just for those that are just listening, cross the feet.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的，交叉双脚，对于那些只是在听的人来说，交叉双脚。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yep.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And then just slowly lower yourself into seated position?
Andrew Huberman：然后慢慢降低自己的坐姿？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's right, don't collapse, just lower yourself to the ground, and then without putting your hands down or knee down, can you stand back up?
Kelly Starrett博士：是的，不要倒下，只要把自己放低到地面，然后双手不放下，膝盖不放下，你能站起来吗？
Andrew Huberman: And should one be able to do it with either foot over the other?
Andrew Huberman：一个人应该能够用一只脚在另一只脚上做到这一点吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Seems like I should use my left leg and right leg equally, right.
Kelly Starrett 博士：看来我应该平等地使用我的左腿和右腿，右。
I shouldn't have a good side and a bad side.
我不应该有好的一面和坏的一面。
But what's interesting is the data I think is that it's a nice predictor of all causes mortality, morbidity, that's fine.
但有趣的是，我认为这些数据可以很好地预测全因死亡率和发病率，这很好。
But what it really hints at is your changes in how your body interacts with the environment.
但它真正暗示的是你的身体与环境相互作用方式的变化。
That, because you've adapted suddenly the skill that you've done 100,000 times, 200,000 times as a kid in crisscross applesauce, suddenly are confronted as an adult with a skill you can no longer perform.
因为你突然适应了你小时候在十字形苹果酱中做过100,000次、200,000次的技能，突然间你会面临一个成年人无法再执行的技能。
And it doesn't require massive hip range of motion, it doesn't require full range of motion in your ankles.
而且它不需要髋部的大范围运动，也不需要脚踝的全范围运动。
It's actually a really fair test.
这实际上是一个非常公平的测试。
But if you're missing some of these end ranges, you're going to struggle.
但如果你错过了其中一些最终范围，你就会陷入困境。
And it's nice, now that I have this, like, what's the session cost?
很好，既然我有了这个，那么会议费用是多少？
I've become a...
我已经成为一个...
I love cycling, mountain biking is my jam.
我喜欢骑自行车，山地自行车是我的最爱。
But if I ride my bike a ton, my hips get super tight, but if I have some assessments just like vital signs, blood pressure 120 over 80, that's not good blood pressure, but it's a nice decent reference.
但如果我经常骑自行车，我的臀部会变得非常紧，但如果我有一些评估，例如生命体征，血压 120 超过 80，这不是好的血压，但它是一个不错的参考。
Now I create some movement minimums that help me understand how my body is interacting with stress, environment, nutrition, exercise, et cetera.
现在，我制定了一些最低运动量，帮助我了解我的身体如何与压力、环境、营养、锻炼等相互作用。
Andrew Huberman: For some people, maybe me, if I were to, you know, sit cross-legged on the ground for a bit and then stand up.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对于某些人来说，也许是我，如果我盘腿坐在地上一会儿，然后站起来。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Oh yeah.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman: If it hasn't been in a while, like kind of like, just kind of ache.
Andrew Huberman：如果有一段时间没有了，就像有点像，只是有点疼痛。
But I consider myself pretty, you know, pretty mobile.
但我认为自己很漂亮，你知道，很灵活。
Once I warm up, I can run for an hour and a half, jog for an hour and a half.
热身后，我可以跑一个半小时，慢跑一个半小时。
Once I get warmed up in the gym, I can move what, at least for me, is satisfying amounts of weight.
一旦我在健身房热身，我就可以移动至少对我而言令人满意的重量。
So I wouldn't say that I'm out of shape, I wouldn't say I'm in spectacular shape.
所以我不会说我身材走样，我不会说我身材很棒。
Is it normal for us after a certain age to kind of feel like we creak or ache as we move in and or out of a new movement?
过了一定年龄后，当我们进入或退出新的运动时，感觉吱吱作响或疼痛，这正常吗？
I mean, does it fit with being still a healthy person or should we just not have any of those kinds of like, that was like, I stretched that one.
我的意思是，这是否适合仍然是一个健康的人，或者我们是否应该没有任何类似的东西，就像，我伸展了那个。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Dude, I sat on the ground, that was rough, that was super rough.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：伙计，我坐在地上，地面很粗糙，非常粗糙。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, maybe, you know, sitting for 30 minutes and standing up and feeling like you have to kind of open yourself up with a can opener, so to speak.
Andrew Huberman：是的，也许，你知道，坐了 30 分钟然后站起来，感觉你必须用开罐器打开自己，可以这么说。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Well, a couple things there, one is, you said new movement.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：嗯，有几件事，其中之一是，你说新的运动。
So one of the ways we define best athlete is who's the person who can transfer the skill, their current skill set and pick up the new skill the fastest.
因此，我们定义最佳运动员的方法之一是谁能够转移技能、他们当前的技能组合并最快地掌握新技能。
So what I'll say is if you want to test how fit you are, how good your program is, go ahead and jump someone else's program, let me know how that goes, can you perform the skills?
所以我要说的是，如果你想测试一下你的健康程度，你的计划有多好，那就跳过别人的计划，让我知道情况如何，你能发挥这些技能吗？
Are you skilled?
你熟练吗？
Andrew Huberman: I'm chuckling 'cause I joined Cameron Hanes for his weight workout, which is, you know, high-repetition circuit work that went on for about 45 minutes.
Andrew Huberman：我笑了，因为我和 Cameron Hanes 一起进行了举重训练，你知道，这是持续大约 45 分钟的高重复性循环训练。
None of the weights were particularly heavy, but it's just nonstop.
没有一个重量特别重，但就是不间断。
I was sore and I normally don't get sore for more than a half day, if at all.
我很酸痛，如果有的话，我通常不会酸痛超过半天。
Soreness hasn't really ever been an issue for me.
酸痛对我来说从来都不是问题。
I was sore for almost a week and a half, maybe two weeks.
我疼痛了将近一个半星期，也许两周。
But it was, it was insane.
但事实就是如此，这太疯狂了。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: This is so good, it opens up the next thing right?
Kelly Starrett 博士：这太好了，它开启了下一件事，对吧？
Founder of CrossFit, Greg Glassman, one of my earliest influence coaches, says we failed the margins of our experience.
CrossFit 的创始人格雷格·格拉斯曼（Greg Glassman）是我最早的影响力教练之一，他说我们在经验的边缘失败了。
So what you just saw was, hey, here is this metabolic pathway range work that I have not inoculated myself to.
所以你刚刚看到的是，嘿，这是我自己还没有接种的代谢途径范围工作。
And I think we're at an interesting place where fitness has become hobby.
我认为我们正处于一个有趣的阶段，健身已经成为一种爱好。
Fitness has become sort of my personal pastime.
健身已经成为我个人的消遣。
And I can go to the gym and I can look jacked.
我可以去健身房，而且我可以看起来很精神。
You're jacked and tan, you're very handsome 49-year-old.
你49岁了，皮肤黝黑，皮肤黝黑，非常英俊。
But what we start to see is, the things that make us look aesthetically pleasing or functional enough isn't the same thing as preparing for sport or transferring to a new skill, and in fact I would say if I had a spectrum of activities I'd put like fitnessing over here, like I go to a camp, I just do a million reps, I breathe hard, it's super fun, I'm in Zumba, like I'm mirroring, and I have positive regard and I see my friends.
但我们开始看到的是，让我们看起来美观或足够实用的东西与准备运动或转移到新技能并不是一回事，事实上，我会说，如果我在这里进行一系列活动，比如健身，比如我去露营，我只做一百万次，我呼吸困难，这非常有趣，我在尊巴舞中，就像我在镜像一样，我有积极的尊重，我看到了我的朋友。
On the other side, we have very much sports-specific training.
另一方面，我们有很多针对运动的训练。
The only goal is to support the sport.
唯一的目标是支持这项运动。
If you're an elite soccer player, we have goals off season, but in the in season it's to support your body to win.
如果您是一名精英足球运动员，我们在休赛期有目标，但在赛季中，我们的目标是支持您的身体获胜。
But one step back from that, I call sports-preparation training, which is where we start to see sort of some really pattern interference between what the internet says I should do to have huge quads and the best way to create an elite sprinter or an elite footballer, right?
但退一步来说，我称之为运动准备训练，这就是我们开始看到互联网上所说的我应该做的拥有巨大股四头肌的方法与培养精英短跑运动员或精英足球运动员的最佳方法之间存在某种真正模式干扰的地方，对吗？
In that sports preparation training, I can be, think of it GPP plus looking at positions and how things transfer.
在运动准备训练中，我可以认为 GPP 加上观察位置以及事物如何转移。
Frans Bosch is a great example of sports-preparation training.
弗兰斯·博斯（Frans Bosch）是运动准备训练的一个很好的例子。
He's a Dutch thinker, his books are great, and you'll understand that really what we're trying to do in sports preparation is say, hey, what is this complex system in front of us?
他是一位荷兰思想家，他的书很棒，你会明白我们在体育准备方面真正想做的是说，嘿，我们面前的这个复杂系统是什么？
What's the minimal amount of input so that we can still go and project ourselves into the world through sport and performance.
最少需要多少投入才能让我们仍然可以通过运动和表现将自己投射到世界上。
And on the other side, suddenly, we do come up confronted with, hey, I'm doing this thing and I jump in with my friend and I get brutalized.
另一方面，突然间，我们确实遇到了，嘿，我正在做这件事，我和我的朋友一起加入，我受到了残酷的对待。
Which is actually a problem that we have with people, really good fit athletes, and I throw them into a group fitness class and they can do so much work that they wreck themselves for weeks.
这实际上是我们与人们相处的一个问题，非常健康的运动员，我把他们扔进集体健身班，他们可以做太多的工作，以至于他们在几周内把自己搞砸了。
And that's probably what happened.
这可能就是发生的事情。
You're so strong and you know how to just be uncomfortable and you just did this freakish amount of work without giving yourself a chance to adapt.
你是如此坚强，你知道如何感到不舒服，但你只是做了这么多奇怪的工作，却没有给自己适应的机会。
And that happens all the time.
这种情况经常发生。
Andrew Huberman: So going back to the, getting down on the ground once a day and then getting up.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以回到过去，每天趴在地上一次，然后站起来。
I'd like to just, I want to get to fitness and sports training as well.
我只是想，我也想进行健身和运动训练。
Is there another practice or set of practices related to where we do our profession work?
是否还有与我们专业工作地点相关的其他实践或一套实践？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的。
Andrew Huberman: So I can stand.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以我可以站起来。
I have a standing desk.
我有一张站立式办公桌。
I have a drafting table and I'll sit, stand.
我有一张绘图桌，我可以坐着，站着。
I'll stand for a while.
我会站一会儿。
I'll sit, stand for a while, sit.
我会坐下，站一会儿，坐下。
I have a stool, I like to be at a stool, that's where my back is not supported.
我有一个凳子，我喜欢坐在凳子上，那里没有支撑我的背部。
And so I try and vary it as much as I can.
所以我尝试尽可能地改变它。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Love that.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：喜欢这个。
Andrew Huberman: And thanks to you, I got, thanks to your recommendation, that is, I bought one of those little kickstands that goes underneath the desk from Rogue.
Andrew Huberman：多亏了你，多亏了你的推荐，我才从 Rogue 那里买了一个放在桌子下面的小支架。
I don't have any financial relationship with Rogue.
我与 Rogue 没有任何经济关系。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: You're making tens of dollars on this fidget stand right there.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：你在这个烦人的小摊上赚了几十美元。
Andrew Huberman: No, l, l sent the money like everyone else would.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：不，我，我像其他人一样寄了钱。
One could probably build one too.
人们或许也可以建造一个。
This is a little fidget stand.
这是一个有点烦躁的立场。
I love that thing because it reminds me to, you know, to swing my foot while I'm there, even while I'm standing.
我喜欢那东西，因为它提醒我，你知道，当我在那里时，甚至当我站着的时候，要摆动我的脚。
So that's what I've done to try and keep some mobility during the day.
这就是我在白天所做的努力保持一定的活动能力。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And I want to double-click on that because that's really amazing because what you've done is said, hey, I can't control this aspect of my environment, I have to do some deep work.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我想双击它，因为这真的很神奇，因为你所做的就是说，嘿，我无法控制环境的这方面，我必须做一些深入的工作。
That means I might need to perch or I might have to sit at a conference table.
这意味着我可能需要栖息，或者我可能必须坐在会议桌旁。
And then what we can start to say is, well, what other choices do I have?
然后我们可以开始说的是，我还有什么其他选择？
And now if we work with a typical person and you say you have some agency before you leave for work and then your agency doesn't return till you get home, right?
现在，如果我们和一个典型的人一起工作，你说你在上班之前有一些代理，然后你的代理直到你回家才回来，对吗？
What are you going to do during the day to keep the body moving?
白天你会做什么来保持身体活动？
So that it's easier to escape to your afternoon class.
这样就可以更轻松地逃离下午的课程。
I think that's the thing.
我认为就是这样。
And what you've just described is what my wife would call a movement-rich environment.
你刚才描述的就是我妻子所说的“运动丰富的环境”。
How do I pepper the environment with inputs so that I'm not just in a tiny movement language?
我如何为环境添加输入，以便我不只是使用微小的动作语言？
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
I want to go back to the sitting on the ground, should it be painful?
我想回到坐在地上的样子，会痛吗？
Should it be sore?
应该痛吗？
One aspect of your physiology that will not change, doesn't have to change, is your range of motion as you get older.
随着年龄的增长，你的生理机能的一个方面不会改变，也不必改变，那就是你的运动范围。
We should be able to maintain our range of motion.
我们应该能够保持我们的运动范围。
So what's interesting is that if we're suddenly confronted with tasks that ask us to be in certain positions that we're not comfortable with, we're going to be sore, you bet.
所以有趣的是，如果我们突然面临要求我们处于某些我们不舒服的位置的任务，我们肯定会感到酸痛。
You're going to have to squeeze your butt.
你将不得不挤压你的屁股。
And something you said earlier, like, once I'm warmed up, I love that phrase, right?
你之前说过，一旦我热身起来，我就喜欢这句话，对吧？
Once I've had my 27 supplements and my coffee and my activation, I've gotten to my sauna, I can do anything, I feel great.
当我服用了 27 种补充剂、咖啡和激活剂后，我就进入了桑拿房，我可以做任何事情，我感觉很棒。
The real question is, should I have to do all that stuff?
真正的问题是，我应该做所有这些事情吗？
For high performance?
为了高性能？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
But should I have to do all of this prep to have native range of motion, to have baseline range of motion?
但我是否必须做所有这些准备工作才能获得自然的运动范围、基线的运动范围？
Probably not.
可能不会。
Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.
Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。
AG1 is a vitamin-mineral-probiotic drink that also includes prebiotics and adaptogens.
AG1 是一种维生素-矿物质-益生菌饮料，还含有益生元和适应原。
AG1 is designed to cover all of your foundational nutritional needs and it tastes great.
AG1 旨在满足您所有的基本营养需求，而且味道极佳。
Now, I've been drinking AG1 since 2012, and I started doing that at a time when my budget for supplements was really limited.
现在，我从 2012 年开始饮用 AG1，当时我的补充剂预算非常有限。
In fact, I only had enough money back then to purchase one supplement.
事实上，当时我的钱只够购买一种补充剂。
And I'm so glad that I made that supplement AG1.
我很高兴我制作了补充剂 AG1。
The reason for that is even though I strive to eat most of my foods from whole foods and minimally processed foods, it's very difficult for me to get enough fruits, vegetables, vitamins and minerals, micronutrients and adaptogens from food alone.
原因是，尽管我努力吃天然食品和最低限度加工食品中的大部分食物，但我很难仅从食物中获取足够的水果、蔬菜、维生素和矿物质、微量营养素和适应原。
And I need to do that in order to ensure that I have enough energy throughout the day, I sleep well at night and keep my immune system strong.
我需要这样做，以确保我全天有足够的能量，晚上睡得好，并保持我的免疫系统强大。
But when I take AG1 daily, I find that all aspects of my health, my physical health, my mental health, and my performance, both cognitive and physical, are better.
但是当我每天服用 AG1 时，我发现我的健康各方面，我的身体健康，我的心理健康，以及我的认知和身体表现都更好了。
I know that because I've had lapses when I didn't take AG1 and I certainly felt the difference.
我知道这一点，因为当我没有参加 AG1 时我曾犯过错误，而且我确实感受到了差异。
I also notice, and this makes perfect sense given the relationship between the gut microbiome and the brain, that when I regularly take AG1, which for me means a serving in the morning or midmorning and again later in the afternoon or evening, that I have more mental clarity and more mental energy.
我还注意到，考虑到肠道微生物组和大脑之间的关系，这是完全合理的，当我定期服用 AG1（对我来说意味着早上或上午服用一次，下午或晚上再次服用）时，我的思维更加清晰，精力更加充沛。
If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。
Right now they're giving away five free travel packs and a year's supply of vitamin D3K2.
现在他们正在赠送五个免费旅行包和一年的维生素 D3K2。
Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman to claim that special offer.
再次强调，您可以通过 Drinkag1.com/huberman 领取特别优惠。
As long as we're there, I'm just going to tell you what's worked best for me in terms of warming up and I'd love to know your thoughts.
只要我们在那里，我就会告诉你在热身方面什么对我最有效，我很想知道你的想法。
Years ago, I think it was a Charles Poliquin post or something like that where it was suggested to do relatively low repetition warmup.
几年前，我认为 Charles Poliquin 的帖子或类似的帖子建议进行相对较低重复的热身。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Love it.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：喜欢它。
Andrew Huberman: As opposed to going in and doing, you know, 15 reps, then 10, then eight or whatever it is.
Andrew Huberman：与直接进行 15 次、10 次、8 次或其他任何次数相反。
And I've found over the years what's allowed me to get strongest and stay strongest for me is to, sure I'll go in and do the first set of a movement, a resistance-training movement, maybe eight repetitions just to get some blood flowing and remind my brain, you know, what the range of motion is, right?
多年来我发现，让我变得最强壮并保持最强的就是，我肯定会去做第一组动作，阻力训练动作，也许重复八次只是为了让血液流动并提醒我的大脑，你知道，运动范围是多少，对吧？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Practice.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：练习。
Yeah, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Andrew Huberman: Then I'll do maybe just, you know, five, four, two repetitions, on subsequent three sets, so five, four and then two repetition sets with heavier loads.
安德鲁·休伯曼：然后我可能会做，你知道，在接下来的三组中重复五次、四次、两次，所以五次、四次，然后是两次重复，负载较重。
And it's just to prepare my nervous system for heavier loads.
这只是为了让我的神经系统为更重的负荷做好准备。
And then when I start my actual "work sets," I can get a lot more real work done.
然后，当我开始实际的“工作集”时，我可以完成更多的实际工作。
And this for me was like spit in the face of everything I had read, everything I'd seen that you needed a higher repetition warmup.
对我来说，这就像对我读过的所有内容、我所看到的所有需要更高重复热身的内容吐唾沫。
And it has allowed me to progress more or less continuously over the decades that I've been training.
它让我在几十年的训练中或多或少地不断进步。
And I'm not a natural athlete.
我不是一个天生的运动员。
I'm just not.
我只是不是。
I've trained for a long, long time, but I would never fall under what you would call a natural athlete.
我已经训练了很长很长的时间，但我永远不会落入所谓的天生运动员的行列。
I don't have a low recovery quotient, all that stuff.
我的恢复商数并不低，诸如此类。
And so for me it was like a shocker, but it makes total sense.
所以对我来说这就像一个令人震惊的事情，但它完全有道理。
Prepare the nervous system for the work you're about to do and don't follow some preconceived idea that you have to do high repetition warmup or even moderate repetition warmup, and lo and behold, you get much stronger and if you want to grow muscle, you can grow more muscle.
让神经系统为你即将要做的工作做好准备，不要遵循一些先入为主的想法，即你必须进行高重复热身甚至中度重复热身，你会发现，你会变得更强壮，如果你想增长肌肉，你可以增长更多肌肉。
Why haven't we heard more about this?
为什么我们没有听到更多有关此事的消息？
Why don't people in fitness talk more?
为什么健身的人不多说话？
I know you do.
我知道你会的。
And please do.
请这样做。
Talk about the nervous system and the fact that it's not just all about warming up and getting blood flow, it's really about preparing the brain and spinal cord and all the stuff in there.
谈论神经系统，事实上它不仅仅是热身和血液流动，它实际上是让大脑和脊髓以及其中的所有东西做好准备。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah, love that.
Kelly Starrett 博士：是的，喜欢这个。
Let's say a couple variables there.
让我们说几个变量。
What's your training age, right?
你的训练年龄是多少岁，对吧？
If I'm going to take a beginner and you in the same thing, we can make big jumps.
如果我要让初学者和你做同样的事情，我们就能取得很大的进步。
You and I have been, we've deadlifted together a decade ago, like, we can just go.
你和我，十年前我们一起硬拉过，就像，我们可以走了。
We know our bodies, the patterns are well ingrained.
我们了解我们的身体，这些模式是根深蒂固的。
Our tissues have exposure here, right?
我们的组织暴露在这里，对吗？
There's some things we can do, so I love that you're starting to see that, what's the minimal amount of warmup to do the task.
我们可以做一些事情，所以我很高兴你开始看到，完成任务的最小热身量是多少。
And on some days you may be sore, maybe stiff, and it takes a little more time to go get right underneath it.
有时你可能会感到酸痛、僵硬，需要更多的时间才能完全恢复过来。
One of the things I think we have this opportunity to do is put play back into warmups.
我认为我们有机会做的一件事就是将比赛重新投入到热身中。
So one of the things is that I suspect, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you don't find a lot of joy in doing these, like rote A, B, the world's greatest stretch, why, do the active...
所以其中一件事是我怀疑，如果我错了，请纠正我，你不会在做这些事情时找到很多乐趣，比如死记硬背 A、B、世界上最伟大的伸展运动，为什么，做积极的......
Like, it's not that fun.
就像，这不是那么有趣。
So, let me talk about my experience working with a team at Berkeley.
那么，让我谈谈我在伯克利的一个团队工作的经历。
I have this shout-out to the women's water polo team at Berkeley, who are my just total family, these women are incredible.
我要向伯克利女子水球队大声疾呼，她们是我唯一的家人，这些女性太不可思议了。
But I came into the sport and looked around and I saw really ineffective warmups that weren't a good use of the time, that didn't prepare us to get into a fight in 20 minutes or 30 minutes later.
但当我开始这项运动后，环顾四周，我发现热身非常无效，没有很好地利用时间，也没有为我们在 20 分钟或 30 分钟后进入战斗做好准备。
So if you went through your warmup and said, I'm going to be in a fight, am I prepared for that or not?
所以，如果你在热身时说，我要打架了，我准备好了吗？
And that's a nice, like, rubric to say, I'm nervous system arousal, I have a little sweat on, I've practiced, right?
这是一个很好的标题，比如，我的神经系统被唤醒，我有点出汗，我已经练习过，对吧？
You know, I've touched some positions and shapes.
你知道，我已经触及了一些位置和形状。
But, you know, what I see is that there's, in the typical training session, there's a lot of work to get done.
但是，你知道，我看到的是，在典型的培训课程中，有很多工作要做。
So now I think training has become very, very dense.
所以现在我认为训练已经变得非常非常密集。
You know, here's this piece, here's this piece.
你知道，这是这一段，这是这一段。
Now I do the successor work, I gotta hit these cards.
现在我要做后续工作，我必须打这些牌。
And so the warmup for me has been one of the last places where I can get you to explore new movements, something you saw on the internet, play around.
所以对我来说，热身是我可以让你探索新动作的最后地方之一，你在互联网上看到的东西，可以玩玩。
If you came to my gym, you know, or we came to my house, now I'd be like, let's go throw the medicine ball for five minutes.
如果你来我的健身房，你知道，或者我们来到我家，现在我会说，让我们去扔实心球五分钟。
And there's no wrong way.
而且没有错误的方法。
But I want you to start to explore speed.
但我希望你开始探索速度。
I want you to explore catch an object and going fast.
我想让你探索抓住一个物体并快速前进。
And what we haven't done, and I suspect, I wouldn't say that your warmup is the best way, I say it's one way to get to the thing that we want faster and potentially you stop doing what didn't work and what didn't serve you, which I really want people to understand is that if you're not blind going through some program, I want you to say, does this serve me?
我们还没有做的事情，我怀疑，我不会说你的热身是最好的方法，我说这是一种更快地实现我们想要的事情的方法，并且有可能你会停止做那些不起作用和对你没有帮助的事情，我真正希望人们理解的是，如果你不是盲目地执行某些程序，我想让你说，这对我有用吗？
Because my experience working now 20 years with the best teams and athletes and organizations on the planet is athletes do what works and they stop doing what doesn't work.
因为我与世界上最好的团队、运动员和组织一起工作了 20 年的经验是，运动员做有效的事情，停止做无效的事情。
Isn't that interesting?
这不是很有趣吗？
right?
正确的？
So what I love is that you started to get under heavy loads relatively quickly and movements you had real competency and exposure with.
所以我喜欢的是，你开始相对较快地承受重负荷，并且你有真正的能力和接触能力。
Yes, because what we want to do is come back to say what's the least amount of work I can do to have the biggest adaptation?
是的，因为我们想做的是回过头来说，我能做的最少工作量是多少，才能有最大的适应？
And three hours in the gym doesn't fit into your life and it doesn't fit into the typical person's life.
在健身房里呆三个小时不适合你的生活，也不适合一般人的生活。
And theoretically you're going to have to go do a sport.
理论上你必须去参加一项运动。
So you're going to have to recover from this sport and this training session.
所以你必须从这项运动和训练中恢复过来。
You were like, hey, I can't even handle this high volume.
你说，嘿，我什至无法处理这么大的音量。
You know, it's a ding on me too, I can't handle the same high volumes, my friends can.
你知道，这对我来说也是一种痛苦，我无法处理同样高的容量，但我的朋友们可以。
So, "wasting your time" with lots of high-volume sets of an empty barbell might have been useful at some point, and maybe it doesn't serve you as well now or because you have to put so many plates on that bar.
因此，用大量的空杠铃来“浪费你的时间”在某些时候可能会很有用，但也许现在对你没有什么帮助，或者因为你必须在杠铃上放那么多的盘子。
That's just, that's a warmup by itself, right?
只是，这本身就是一个热身，对吧？
Andrew Huberman: That's not an issue for me.
Andrew Huberman：这对我来说不是问题。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: You walked a mile to load those plates.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：您走了一英里来装载这些盘子。
Andrew Huberman: No, that's not an issue for me, but that's perfect, what you just said is a perfect opportunity for me to mention something that I've noticed which prompts a question which is I noticed that I have some asymmetry, my right shoulder naturally sits a little lower than my left and whenever I get a little back tweak it's always on the same side, etc., etc. I know this varies for everybody and I noticed that I was always picking up the weights and re-racking them because I re-rack my weights like a grown up, re-racking them on the same side.
安德鲁·休伯曼：不，这对我来说不是问题，但这很完美，你刚才所说的对我来说是一个绝佳的机会，可以提到我注意到的一些事情，这引发了一个问题，我注意到我有一些不对称，我的右肩自然比左肩低一点，每当我稍微向后调整时，它总是在同一侧，等等。我知道这因人而异，我注意到我总是拿起重量并重新架起它们，因为我像成年人一样重新放置我的重量，将它们重新放置在同一侧。
So I've made it a point now to switch up, you know which side of my body I do them from.
所以我现在就改变立场，你知道我从身体的哪一侧做这些动作。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah, that's great.
Kelly Starrett 博士：是的，那太好了。
Andrew Huberman: And notice I'm significantly weaker on one side of my body.
Andrew Huberman：请注意，我身体的一侧明显较弱。
I mean not to the point where, you know, I have to use two different sets of dumbbells or two different dumbbells if I'm doing curls or something, but just noticing these natural asymmetries starting to show up because I'm a right hander or who knows, or I skateboarded, so, you know, I've spent a lot of my life, early life with my left foot forward and my right foot pushing, and as a consequence there are a lot of asymmetries.
我的意思是，你知道，如果我做弯举什么的，我就必须使用两套不同的哑铃或两个不同的哑铃，但只是注意到这些自然的不对称开始出现，因为我是右撇子，或者谁知道，或者我玩滑板，所以，你知道，我一生中的大部分时间都是左脚向前，右脚推动，因此存在很多不对称。
So what I've tried to do is correct those asymmetries in the between movement movements, but also to stagger my stance during curls and then, and switch it each time or maybe even overemphasize the weaker side.
所以我试图做的就是纠正动作之间的不对称，而且在弯举过程中错开我的姿势，然后每次都改变它，甚至可能过分强调较弱的一侧。
I have no professional training in any of this.
我没有受过这方面的专业培训。
I've just found that it's made for better posture, more, more evenly distributed strength.
我刚刚发现它是为了更好的姿势、更多、更均匀的力量分布而设计的。
And I must say all of that is based on teachings that I read in your books and through conversations with you about, hey, we have these natural imbalances and there are little things that we can do that take moments that can correct those imbalances.
我必须说，所有这些都是基于我在你们的书中读到的以及通过与你们的对话所学到的，嘿，我们有这些自然的不平衡，我们可以做一些小事情，需要一些时间来纠正这些不平衡。
So if you would, could you sort of expand on the number and type of imbalances that you most commonly see and some ways for people to remedy them?
那么，如果您愿意的话，您能否详细介绍一下您最常见的不平衡的数量和类型，以及人们纠正这些失衡的一些方法？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Let's uh, if we just took the word imbalance and put it to the side for a second because it's sort of a nonspecific term.
Kelly Starrett 博士：呃，如果我们只是把不平衡这个词放在一边，因为它是一个非特定术语。
Like are we testing your hamstring to your quad?
就像我们正在测试你的腿筋和股四头肌一样？
Like what, what's the ideal ratio here?
比如说，这里的理想比例是多少？
Like if you're a professional pitcher, I hope your arm, right arm looks different than your left arm, right?
就像如果你是一名职业投手，我希望你的手臂，右臂看起来与左臂不同，对吧？
But what we can say is, number one, imbalances don't necessarily cause pain.
但我们可以说的是，第一，失衡并不一定会带来痛苦。
Let's, let's be clear about that.
让我们澄清一下这一点。
We should be using our time in the gym as training to find deficiencies and blind spots in our patterns, in our skill, in our, you know, in our brain's feeling comfortable with a certain movement, and what you just hit was that it's, boy, it's really easy to get a lot of variability just doing the things I want to do anyway.
我们应该利用在健身房的时间进行训练，以发现我们的模式、我们的技能、我们的大脑对某种运动感到舒适的缺陷和盲点，而你刚刚发现的是，男孩，无论如何，只要做我想做的事情，就很容易获得很多变化。
So now I'm in a tandem stance.
所以现在我处于串联立场。
I skate left foot forward, right.
我左脚向前滑，向右滑。
But you know, suddenly that's my dominant stance, if you're going to ask me to do anything of consequence, I'm going to adopt that stance.
但你知道，突然间这就是我的主导立场，如果你要我做任何重要的事情，我就会采取这种立场。
But suddenly I get to have some exposure here.
但突然间我开始接触这里了。
So what's the point of the gym?
那么健身房有什么意义呢？
What's the point of training?
训练的意义何在？
Just to work on some cardiorespiratory output that the science says?
只是为了研究科学所说的心肺输出量吗？
Is it to move into play?
是要进场玩吗？
If the brain's a problem-solving machine, let's give it some problems to solve.
如果大脑是一台解决问题的机器，那么我们就给它一些问题来解决。
So you suddenly have a new problem to solve.
所以你突然有一个新问题需要解决。
And I would even say that weakness isn't even the right idea.
我什至会说，软弱甚至不是正确的想法。
Just like here is a pattern that I'm not as effective at, as efficient at.
就像这是一种我不太擅长的模式。
So when we go into the gym, sort of with this great curiosity, then it's a really rich place and a really, frankly, the only safe place because there isn't contact in sport and we're not fighting and dancing and moving and we can really do this controlled formal movement where we can really see inputs and outputs.
因此，当我们带着极大的好奇心走进健身房时，那是一个非常丰富的地方，也是一个非常、坦率地说、唯一安全的地方，因为运动中没有接触，我们不会打架、跳舞和移动，我们可以真正进行这种受控的正式运动，在那里我们可以真正看到输入和输出。
I explained to my mother-in-law a long time ago what was happening when we were developing our model to understand movement.
很久以前，我向我的岳母解释了当我们开发模型来理解运动时发生了什么。
And I was, and I explained it and she was like, oh, you mean it makes the invisible visible?
我是，我解释了这一点，她说，哦，你的意思是它让不可见的东西变得可见？
That's right, is that this is a place to understand how your range of motion is changing, how your skills are changing, right?
没错，这是一个了解你的动作幅度如何变化、你的技能如何变化的地方，对吗？
Over the course of a season or the course of, you know, something going on in your life, a season in your life, suddenly you're like, wow, my left hip is a little tight or my left shoulder is, my internal rotation is going away.
在一个赛季的过程中，或者在你生命中发生的事情，你生命中的一个赛季中，突然你会觉得，哇，我的左臀部有点紧，或者我的左肩有点紧，我的内旋消失了。
Hard to see when you're swimming, really easy to see when we dumbbell snatch, right?
当你游泳的时候很难看到，当我们哑铃抓举的时候很容易看到，对吧？
And what we're trying to do then is take the gym, not only have it be a stimulus for adaptation, but have it be a really great place to uncover changes in my movement, changes in expression of that movement.
我们接下来要做的就是去健身房，不仅让它成为适应的刺激，而且让它成为一个真正发现我的运动变化、运动表达变化的好地方。
And so really what you see, again, if I just do this one thing over and over again, that's patterning, that's repetition, that's practice, right?
所以你真的会看到，如果我一遍又一遍地做这一件事，那就是模式，那就是重复，那就是练习，对吧？
And what you've done is just say, hey, let me change my brain, let me open the door handle with my left side and coming into the gym with that curiosity means that we can have seven bottom lines.
你所做的只是说，嘿，让我改变我的大脑，让我用左侧打开门把手，带着好奇心走进健身房意味着我们可以有七个底线。
We're working on your fascia, we're working on these energy systems, we're working on these movement skills, but simultaneously we can have fun, we can work on understanding our range of motion.
我们正在研究你的筋膜，我们正在研究这些能量系统，我们正在研究这些运动技能，但同时我们可以享受乐趣，我们可以努力了解我们的运动范围。
So for me I think it's easier to say let's frame mobility as, here's my definition: do you have access to normative range of motion?
所以对我来说，我认为更容易说让我们框架移动性，这是我的定义：你可以达到标准的运动范围吗？
The range of motion every physician, every physical therapist, every chiro agrees on.
每个医生、每个物理治疗师、每个 Chiro 都同意的运动范围。
Shoulder, it's 180 degrees of flexion.
肩膀，屈曲180度。
Andrew Huberman: So for those listening, this is lifting your arm above head so you can bring your hand basically, you know, above the center of your head.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对于那些听的人来说，这就是将你的手臂举过头顶，这样你就可以将你的手基本上放在头的中心上方。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And what you can see right now is Andrew has his elbow bent, his head tipped to the side, is internally rotated.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：你现在可以看到安德鲁的肘部弯曲，头偏向一侧，内旋。
He's solving the problem, which is what his brain is saying, right?
他正在解决问题，这就是他的大脑所说的，对吗？
Andrew Huberman: Compensation.
安德鲁·休伯曼：补偿。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: If you want to use the word compensation, I want to put that on you.
Kelly Starrett 博士：如果你想用“补偿”这个词，我想用这个词来形容你。
But what I'd say is that's an incomplete position.
但我想说的是，这是一个不完整的立场。
Doesn't mean you have pain, doesn't mean you're not the world champion, but it means we may have some latent capacity we could chase.
并不意味着你有痛苦，并不意味着你不是世界冠军，但这意味着我们可能有一些可以追逐的潜力。
And the next question for me then is, what is it that's missing potentially in your training that we're not having this exposure?
那么我的下一个问题是，在您的培训中，我们没有进行这种接触，可能缺少什么？
We're not doing enough close grip hanging, we're not doing seesaw press, right?
我们没有做足够的紧握悬挂，我们没有做跷跷板，对吧？
Where the arm is straight up, we're always gripping on a barbell, right?
当手臂伸直时，我们总是握住杠铃，对吗？
I'm not handling enough dumbbells or kettlebells overhead.
我在头顶上举起的哑铃或壶铃不够。
And then we can say, well, do I need some position transfer exercises, some mobility work to restore that so we can use it again, and then more importantly, how does that turn up for you in a way that impacts your sport or your job?
然后我们可以说，好吧，我是否需要一些位置转移练习，一些移动性工作来恢复它，以便我们可以再次使用它，然后更重要的是，这对你来说会如何影响你的运动或工作？
That's what's really interesting.
这才是真正有趣的地方。
Does that make sense?
这有道理吗？
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
So what I'm hearing is that when we go into the gym or wherever we do our resistance training work, that we should think about it as a place to, yes, perform to exceed our previous, you know, reps and sets and weight.
所以我听到的是，当我们进入健身房或任何地方进行阻力训练时，我们应该将其视为一个超越我们之前的次数、组数和重量的地方。
Yeah, 'cause that's part of the fun.
是的，因为这是乐趣的一部分。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Fun and easy to measure, hard to see.
Kelly Starrett 博士：有趣且易于测量，但很难看到。
Are you getting better at soccer?
你的足球技术进步了吗？
I don't know, but I put another keel on my bench today, like, that's fun.
我不知道，但今天我在我的长凳上又放了一条龙骨，这很有趣。
Andrew Huberman: Lex Fridman, who of course everybody knows from the Lex Fridman podcast, likes to make fun of Americans, because he's Russian, but he's actually American now, for being meatheads, because we like to spend so much time in gyms working out as opposed to doing sports.
安德鲁·休伯曼：莱克斯·弗里德曼，当然每个人都从莱克斯·弗里德曼播客中认识了他，他喜欢取笑美国人，因为他是俄罗斯人，但他现在实际上是美国人，因为他是笨蛋，因为我们喜欢花很多时间在健身房锻炼而不是做运动。
And I assure him that I've also done and do sports now.
我向他保证我现在也从事体育运动。
But he likes to make that point, and I think it's a fair one, in that, well, he's a Brazilian jiujitsu guy.
但他喜欢强调这一点，我认为这是公平的，因为他是巴西柔术运动员。
So in any event, the gym is also a place for diagnosis, to diagnose where we don't have as much range of motion as we could.
所以无论如何，健身房也是一个诊断的地方，诊断我们运动范围不够大的地方。
And, you know, that's very helpful, I think, for people to hear, because most people are time limited.
而且，你知道，我认为这对人们来说非常有帮助，因为大多数人的时间都是有限的。
They don't have...
他们没有...
if they're getting their two or three resistance training workouts per week, plus two or three cardiovascular training workouts, and they're listening to Peter or Tia, so they're trying to hang from a bar for 90 seconds or more, and they're, you know, doing some farmer carries, and they're doing their zone 2, and they're throwing on a weight vest.
如果他们每周进行两到三项阻力训练，再加上两到三项心血管训练，他们会听彼得或蒂亚的训练，所以他们会尝试在杠上悬挂 90 秒或更长时间，他们会做一些农夫举重，他们会做 2 区训练，还会穿上举重背心。
I mean, you know, and they got either fidgeting under their desk, you know, at some point you can start to understand why people are like, whoa, this is starting to become overwhelming.
我的意思是，你知道，他们要么在桌子底下坐立不安，你知道，在某些时候你可以开始理解为什么人们会说，哇，这开始变得势不可挡。
What you're talking about is going and doing your typical workout, but paying attention to where some, for lack of a better word, I'll call them asymmetries or not full range of motion being expressed where that might be happening.
你所说的是去做你典型的锻炼，但要注意一些地方，因为缺乏更好的词，我将它们称为不对称或没有表达出可能发生的全方位运动。
I love, I keep coming back to this, but this thing about getting down onto the ground for 30 minutes each night while watching TV or while, maybe even while eating dinner while talking to your family or partner.
我喜欢，我不断地回到这个问题上，但是每晚趴在地上 30 分钟，一边看电视，一边看电视，甚至一边吃晚饭，一边和家人或伴侣聊天。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah, yeah.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的，是的。
Andrew Huberman: I think it's fantastic.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我认为这太棒了。
It also gives me an excuse to push the sofas off to the side of the room because I have this weird neuroticism about furniture in the middle of the room.
这也给了我一个借口把沙发推到房间的一侧，因为我对房间中间的家具有一种奇怪的神经质。
So I'm imagining getting mats down on the floor of the living room.
所以我想象着在客厅的地板上铺上垫子。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And suddenly we're not programming another thing that's, I think, one of the things that has happened, and it's a good thing, It's a feature of the system.
Kelly Starrett 博士：突然之间，我们不再编写另一件事，我认为，这是已经发生的事情之一，这是一件好事，它是系统的一个功能。
Strength conditioning in the last 20 years has become very sophisticated.
过去 20 年来，力量训练已经变得非常复杂。
So Juliet and I, my wife and CEO, opened our gym in 2005.
因此，朱丽叶和我（我的妻子兼首席执行官）于 2005 年开设了我们的健身房。
Andrew Huberman: This was the CrossFit gym at San Francisco Presidio?
Andrew Huberman：这是旧金山要塞的 CrossFit 健身房？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's right, San Francisco.
Kelly Starrett 博士：没错，旧金山。
Andrew Huberman: Beautiful location.
安德鲁·休伯曼：地理位置优越。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Twenty-first CrossFit in the world, early.
Kelly Starrett 博士：世界上第 20 位 CrossFit，早期。
But we couldn't buy a kettlebell in San Francisco.
但我们在旧金山买不到壶铃。
We had to drive to Santa Cruz.
我们不得不开车去圣克鲁斯。
Andrew Huberman: That says a lot about San Francisco.
Andrew Huberman：这充分说明了旧金山的情况。
I can say that because I'm from the Bay Area.
我可以这么说，因为我来自湾区。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: But there was one place in Santa Cruz that sold them, Play It Again Sports, that imported these Russian kettlebells.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：但是圣克鲁斯有一个地方出售这些壶铃，Play It Again Sports，进口这些俄罗斯壶铃。
Thank you, Pavel.
谢谢你，帕维尔。
And we had to make this trek down to buy them.
我们必须长途跋涉才能购买它们。
So the fitness, I think we, I bought my first pair of Olympic lifting shoes out of the back of someone's car, like a drug deal?
所以健身，我想我们，我从某人的车后座买了我的第一双奥林匹克举重鞋，就像毒品交易一样？
Andrew Huberman: Olympic lifting shoes?
安德鲁·休伯曼：奥林匹克举重鞋？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah, like, you just couldn't buy them.
Kelly Starrett 博士：是的，就像，你就是买不到它们。
Andrew Huberman: Flat sole shoes?
安德鲁·休伯曼：平底鞋？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: No, like, actually an Olympic lifting shoe with, like, a heel.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：不，实际上是一只带有后跟的奥林匹克举重鞋。
But, like, you can buy those at, like, three different stores in Malibu right now.
但是，你现在可以在马里布的三个不同商店购买这些产品。
Like, you go right over there...
比如，你就去那边...
we have normal...You can buy kettlebells at Target.
我们有普通的...你可以在 Target 购买壶铃。
So the world has become much more sophisticated.
所以世界变得更加复杂。
Sometimes, like, the overhead squat is a good example.
有时，过头深蹲就是一个很好的例子。
Fantastic diagnostic tool.
很棒的诊断工具。
Tells us a lot.
告诉我们很多。
Andrew Huberman: So bar held overhead, squat down.
Andrew Huberman：所以把杠举过头顶，蹲下。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Super simple.
Kelly Starrett 博士：超级简单。
All you have to do is have normal range of motion and...
您所要做的就是保持正常的运动范围并且...
in your joints and tissues.
在你的关节和组织中。
Well, it helps.
嗯，这有帮助。
Juliet likes to say, I was bending before I was big.
朱丽叶喜欢说，我在长大之前就已经弯了。
But, you know, the idea here, though, is, let's go ahead and also put skill back into this.
但是，你知道，这里的想法是，让我们继续并将技能重新投入其中。
But most people weren't overhead squatting, you know, at all.
但你知道，大多数人根本就没有进行过头蹲。
It wasn't part of their language.
这不是他们语言的一部分。
Now everyone knows what an overhead squat is, right?
现在大家都知道什么是过头深蹲了吧？
Dan John, CrossFit, all the Olympic lifters have been doing this forever.
丹·约翰、CrossFit、所有奥林匹克举重运动员都一直在这样做。
But what we are seeing is that the natural evolution of fitness and strength conditioning is that we've become, we've gotten really decorative in our room.
但我们看到的是，健身和力量调节的自然演变是我们已经成为我们房间的真正装饰物。
So we create this room that's just every inch has a knick knack, has an assistance.
所以我们创造了这个房间，每一寸都有一个小窍门，有一个帮助。
This is my tib raise, this is my neck thing.
这是我的提骨，这是我的脖子。
It's a very decorative experience.
这是一种非常具有装饰性的体验。
And instead of asking what was essential in terms of energy systems and positions that I can train so that I could go use those credits, you know, for lack of a better word, it's.
而不是问我可以训练的能源系统和职位方面什么是必要的，以便我可以使用这些学分，你知道，因为缺乏更好的词，它是。
Fitness has become very recursive.
健身已经变得非常递归。
I have this zone 2 so I can use more zone 2, so I can do more zone 2.
我有这个区域 2，所以我可以使用更多区域 2，所以我可以做更多区域 2。
Or I have pull-ups because they beget more pull-ups instead of, well, how did that make you swim?
或者我有引体向上，因为它们会产生更多的引体向上，而不是，好吧，那是如何让你游泳的？
What's the minimum amount of time we can spend in the gym so that you can go express that, Lex is right, in a sport or an activity?
我们至少可以在健身房度过多少时间，以便您可以在一项运动或活动中表达莱克斯是对的？
And, and look, there are times in your life where the gym is the only thing you got.
而且，你看，在你的生活中，有时健身房是你唯一拥有的东西。
You know, Juliet and I, when we had two kids and a baby or two kids in our businesses, we did the 10-10-10 at 10, which is like 10 air squats, 10 kettlebell swings, 10 pull-ups at 10pm for 10 minutes.
你知道，朱丽叶和我，当我们有两个孩子和一个婴儿或两个孩子时，我们在晚上 10 点进行 10-10-10，这就像晚上 10 点进行 10 次深蹲、10 次壶铃摆动、10 次引体向上，持续 10 分钟。
And I was like, elite
我当时想，精英
Andrew Huberman: You do that every day?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你每天都这样做吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Well, I just did it when I could do it right because that's all I could fit in.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：好吧，我只是在我能做对的时候才这么做，因为这就是我能适应的一切。
So I think what's happened is we have now sold people this idea that fitness happens in a one-hour block.
所以我认为我们现在已经向人们推销了这样的想法：健身在一小时内进行。
And if it's not an hour, you know, then it's not worth doing.
如果不是一个小时，你知道，那么就不值得做。
And if you kept a bar loaded in your garage, you could walk out there and do sets in between making dinner.
如果你在车库里放了一个酒吧，你就可以走到那里，在做晚饭的间隙做几组练习。
You kept a kettlebell in your kitchen.
你在厨房里放了一个壶铃。
You could do Pavel's four swings on the minute for 20 minutes and at least have some exposure loading.
你可以每分钟做帕维尔的四次挥杆，持续 20 分钟，并且至少有一些暴露负荷。
So a long way around the barn of saying, I want to protect your gym time because it's really sacred, amazing time where you can have fun, explore ranges, get strong, get jacked, feel great about yourself, interact with your friends.
所以我想说的是，我想保护你的健身时间，因为它真的是神圣的、令人惊奇的时间，你可以在这里享受乐趣、探索范围、变得强壮、得到刺激、自我感觉良好、与朋友互动。
And what I don't want to do is encroach any more on that magic time because we have a lot to get done in the gym.
我不想再侵犯那段神奇的时间了，因为我们在健身房里还有很多事情要做。
Physiologically, if we're going to compete against these other teams, if we're going to beat Stanford, we're going to need to really maximize that time in the gym.
从生理上来说，如果我们要与其他球队竞争，如果我们要击败斯坦福大学，我们就需要真正最大限度地利用在健身房的时间。
So that means we need to push out some of these other behaviors.
因此，这意味着我们需要消除其中一些其他行为。
So we're not stacking them in and they're eroding the time.
所以我们不会把它们堆积起来，它们会侵蚀我们的时间。
We could be squatting or benching or cleaning or running or sprinting or cutting or playing.
我们可以蹲着、卧推、打扫卫生、跑步、冲刺、切割或玩耍。
Andrew Huberman: You mentioned warming up with play, which I think is a wonderful concept and presumably brings about more dynamic movement.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你提到了通过玩耍来热身，我认为这是一个很棒的概念，并且可能会带来更多动态的运动。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: A hundred percent.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：百分之一百。
Andrew Huberman: And another reason I like it is that I loathe warming up, aside from the types of warmups that I just described.
Andrew Huberman：我喜欢它的另一个原因是，除了我刚才描述的热身类型之外，我讨厌热身。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And I hate it.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我讨厌它。
Andrew Huberman: And I'm beginning to realize that the way I've been training, even though it's been, I would, I would say useful and, and successful for where I've been.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我开始意识到，我一直以来的训练方式，尽管它一直是，我会说，对于我所经历的地方来说是有用的，而且是成功的。
I've been thinking a lot about what I want to do heading into the new year.
我一直在思考新的一年我想做什么。
This is not like a New Year's episode.
这不像新年剧集。
This, this is a, you know, evergreen because it's you.
这，这是，你知道，常青树，因为是你。
But we have a new year coming.
但我们新的一年即将到来。
A lot of people are going to naturally mark the time during and after the holidays as a transition point.
很多人会自然地将假期期间和之后的时间标记为过渡点。
And if one wanted to start to not necessarily completely restructure their fitness, but wanted to start incorporating a few things.
如果一个人想开始不一定要完全重组他们的健康，但想开始整合一些东西。
So we've got sitting down in the evening for 30 minutes.
所以我们晚上要坐下来 30 分钟。
We've got incorporating play into the warmup.
我们已经将比赛融入到热身中。
What would that look like?
那会是什么样子？
Are we taking a tennis ball and bouncing it off the ground?
我们是否拿起一个网球并将其从地面弹起？
We setting some rule in playing a game?
我们在玩游戏时设定一些规则？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Sure.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：当然。
Andrew Huberman: What if I'm alone?
安德鲁·休伯曼：如果我独自一人怎么办？
Am I playing a little handball-type game against the wall?
我是不是在靠墙玩手球类的小游戏？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Absolutely.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：当然。
See something on the internet.
在互联网上看到一些东西。
Want to learn a new skill?
想学习新技能吗？
This is the time to put it in.
这是把它放进去的时候了。
I'm going to talk about my brilliant friend David Weck.
我要谈谈我的杰出朋友大卫·韦克。
He has something called rope flow that he created, and it's just a piece of climbing rope.
他创造了一种叫做绳流的东西，它只是一根攀爬绳。
And he will talk about all the things that it will do.
他将谈论它将要做的所有事情。
For me, I get a thousand PNF patterns.
对我来说，我有一千种 PNF 模式。
I tie my upper body into my lower.
我将上半身绑在下半身上。
My upper body into my lower body.
我的上半身融入下半身。
Andrew Huberman: Could you explain PNF?
Andrew Huberman：您能解释一下 PNF 吗？
Sorry.
对不起。
Acronym.
缩写词。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Sorry, everyone.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：对不起，大家。
That's a model of facilitating movement developed at Kaiser Vallejo.
这是 Kaiser Vallejo 开发的促进运动的模式。
It is by...
它是由...
Knott and Kabat, I think.
我想是诺特和卡巴特。
Maybe I'm getting confused in those.
也许我对这些感到困惑。
And anyway, the bottom line is this.
无论如何，底线是这样的。
How do we help the body restore movement by using its own positional awareness?
我们如何利用身体自身的位置意识来帮助身体恢复运动？
Andrew Huberman: Got it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：明白了。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So if you've ever done a hamstring stretch where someone holds you and you resist, that contract, relax is a style.
Kelly Starrett 博士：所以，如果你曾经做过腿筋伸展运动，有人抱住你而你却反抗，那么收缩、放松就是一种风格。
It's a technique born out of PNF.
这是一种源自 PNF 的技术。
Andrew Huberman: Got it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：明白了。
Sorry.
对不起。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Okay.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：好的。
No problem.
没问题。
Perfect.
完美的。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
So he's got these ropes and, and.
所以他有这些绳索，并且。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So suddenly, like I use this with all my teams, suddenly I'm spinning ropes.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：突然间，就像我在所有团队中使用这个一样，突然间我开始旋转绳子。
I'm getting thousands of evolutions of the wrist turning, the elbow turning, the shoulder turning.
我得到了数千种手腕转动、肘部转动、肩部转动的演变。
I'm generating speed in weird positions that would be vulnerable and not as effective at high load, high stakes.
我在奇怪的位置产生速度，这些位置很容易受到攻击，并且在高负载、高风险的情况下不那么有效。
I get to twist, I can tie my eyes into it, I can develop my stance.
我可以扭转，我可以把我的眼睛绑在上面，我可以发展我的立场。
And in five minutes of messing around, you're like, oh, I feel good.
经过五分钟的闲逛，你会觉得，哦，我感觉很好。
And we've added some speed to that, right?
我们已经增加了一些速度，对吗？
Because a lot of the warmups I see people do, I'm like, hey, there was no speed.
因为我看到人们做很多热身，我就想，嘿，没有速度。
You know what, sport is speed and you haven't added any velocity to your training.
你知道吗，运动就是速度，而你没有在训练中增加任何速度。
So where are we going to do that?
那么我们要在哪里做呢？
Andrew Huberman: I love this.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢这个。
I'm excited to--
我很兴奋——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Dave Weck does a lot of amazing things.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：戴夫·韦克做了很多令人惊奇的事情。
His rope is a foundational piece of my...
他的绳子是我的基础...
If you work with me and you have shoulder pain and neck pain, you're going to get my shoulder spin up or David Weck's rope flow every day.
如果你和我一起工作，并且你有肩膀疼痛和颈部疼痛，你每天都会让我的肩膀旋转或大卫·韦克的绳索流。
That's part of our homework.
这是我们作业的一部分。
What are we going to do to give you exposure and restore what you're supposed to do with your body?
我们要做什么来让你暴露并恢复你应该对你的身体做的事情？
Andrew Huberman: So walk into the gym, use the bathroom, hydrate, whatever it is you need to do.
Andrew Huberman：所以走进健身房，使用浴室，补充水分，无论你需要做什么。
And then five to 10 minutes of some play-type dynamic activity.
然后进行 5 到 10 分钟的一些游戏型动态活动。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Throw a medicine ball around, jump on a mini trampoline, pick up a barbell, do a complex, do some breath-hold work.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：扔健身球，跳上迷你蹦床，拿起杠铃，做一个复杂的动作，做一些屏气动作。
There's a perfect place to lay on all the breath-hold work.
这里有一个完美的地方可以进行所有屏气练习。
I think they call it dry face breath holding, is this dynamic apnea work where you basically are holding your breath.
我认为他们称之为干脸屏气，这是一种基本上屏住呼吸的动态呼吸暂停工作。
So for example, with our teams, we try to, I try to have — this is a magic number — seven sort of hypoxic events where we do something on a breath hold until the athlete has a crisis and has to breathe.
例如，在我们的团队中，我们尝试，我尝试进行 - 这是一个神奇的数字 - 七种缺氧事件，我们在屏住呼吸的情况下做一些事情，直到运动员出现危机并且必须呼吸。
And part of that is I want to get the brain ready for these high CO2 levels, right.
其中一部分是我想让大脑为这些高二氧化碳浓度做好准备，对吧。
And I want to challenge respiration.
我想挑战呼吸。
And it's so easy.
这很容易。
Get on the bike.
骑上自行车吧。
Here's something everyone can do for five minutes.
每个人都可以花五分钟做一些事情。
I want you to take a 10-second inhale on the bike.
我希望你在自行车上吸气 10 秒。
Hold your breath as long as you can.
尽可能长时间地屏住呼吸。
When the bomb goes off in your face, cover nose only.
当炸弹在您脸上爆炸时，仅遮住鼻子。
Start at the next one, at the next minute and what you're going to see is, wow, that was really uncomfortable.
从下一分钟开始，你会看到，哇，这真的很不舒服。
Really psychologically preparing myself to get into a fight.
真的做好了战斗的心理准备。
That came from the French free divers.
那来自法国自由潜水员。
One of the coaches I was working was like, here's something we used to do with our French free divers.
我工作的一位教练说，这是我们过去对法国自由潜水员做的事情。
I was like, this is so good.
我当时想，这太好了。
Mackenzie, Laird Hamilton, Wim Hof, the people who've been exposing us to dynamic apnea work is amazing, but that's another example of something I can do instead of mindlessly just being on and I gotta get a sweat.
麦肯齐（Mackenzie）、莱尔德·汉密尔顿（Laird Hamilton）、维姆·霍夫（Wim Hof），那些让我们进行动态呼吸暂停工作的人真是太棒了，但这是我可以做的事情的另一个例子，而不是盲目地只是继续，我必须出汗。
Like let's go ahead and just layer in play and destruction.
就像让我们继续，只是在游戏和破坏中分层。
Andrew Huberman: I love it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢它。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Do not lay on the ground and foam roll.
Kelly Starrett 博士：不要躺在地上和泡沫轴上。
Let me say that again.
让我再说一遍。
Do not lay on the ground and foam roll.
不要躺在地上和泡沫轴上。
That is the worst way to get ready for a fight ever.
这是有史以来最糟糕的战斗准备方式。
Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and thank one of our sponsors, Function.
Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下，并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
I recently became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我最近成为了 Function 成员。
While I've long been a fan of blood testing, I really wanted to find a more in-depth program for analyzing blood, urine and saliva to get a full picture of my heart health, my hormone status, my immune system regulation, my metabolic function, my vitamin and mineral status, and other critical areas of my overall health and vitality.
虽然我长期以来一直热衷于血液检测，但我真的很想找到一个更深入的程序来分析血液、尿液和唾液，以全面了解我的心脏健康状况、激素状况、免疫系统调节、代谢功能、维生素和矿物质状况以及我整体健康和活力的其他关键领域。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers, key to physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors on your results.
Function 不仅提供对身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标志物的测试，而且还分析这些结果并提供顶级医生对结果的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had too high levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量过高。
This was totally surprising to me.
这让我完全惊讶。
I had no idea prior to taking the test.
参加考试之前我不知道。
Function not only helped me detect this, but offered medical doctor-informed insights on how to best reduce those mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, because I had been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetyl cysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification and worked to reduce my mercury levels.
功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，而且还为我提供了关于如何最好地降低汞含量的医生知情见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼消费，因为我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力吃更多的绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒，并有助于降低我的汞含量。
Comprehensive lab testing like this is so important for health, and while I've been doing it for years, I've always found it to be overly complicated and expensive.
像这样的综合实验室测试对健康非常重要，虽然我已经这样做了很多年，但我总是发现它过于复杂和昂贵。
I've been so impressed by Function, both at the level of ease of use that is getting the test done, as well as how comprehensive and how actionable the tests are, that I recently joined their advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
Function 给我留下了深刻的印象，无论是在完成测试的易用性方面，还是在测试的全面性和可操作性方面，我最近加入了他们的顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
If you'd like to try Function, go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Function，请访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a waitlist of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman Lab listeners.
Function 目前有超过 250,000 人的候补名单，但他们正在为 Huberman Lab 听众提供早期访问服务。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep.
今天的节目也是八觉给我们带来的。
Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.
August Sleep 生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能的智能床垫套。
I've spoken many times before on this podcast about the critical need for us to get adequate amounts of quality sleep each night.
我之前曾在这个播客中多次谈到我们每晚获得充足的优质睡眠的迫切需要。
That's truly the foundation of all mental health, physical health and performance.
这确实是所有心理健康、身体健康和表现的基础。
And one of the best ways to ensure that you get a great night's sleep is to control the temperature of your sleeping environment.
确保您睡个好觉的最佳方法之一就是控制睡眠环境的温度。
And that's because in order to fall and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about 1 to 3 degrees.
这是因为为了入睡并保持深度睡眠，您的体温实际上必须下降约 1 到 3 度。
And in order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature actually has to increase about 1 to 3 degrees.
为了醒来时感觉神清气爽、精力充沛，您的体温实际上必须升高约 1 到 3 度。
Eight Sleep makes it incredibly easy to control the temperature of your sleeping environment by allowing you to control the temperature of your mattress cover at the beginning, middle and end of the night.
八睡眠让您可以非常轻松地控制睡眠环境的温度，让您可以在夜晚开始、中间和结束时控制床垫罩的温度。
I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for nearly four years now and it has completely transformed and improved the quality of my sleep.
我已经睡在八睡眠床垫罩上近四年了，它彻底改变并改善了我的睡眠质量。
Eight Sleep has now launched their newest generation of the Pod Cover, the Pod 4 Ultra.
八睡眠现在推出了他们最新一代的 Pod Cover，Pod 4 Ultra。
The Pod 4 Ultra has improved cooling and heating capacity, higher fidelity sleep tracking technology, and even has snoring detection that will automatically lift your head a few degrees to improve your airflow and stop your snoring.
Pod 4 Ultra 具有改进的冷却和加热能力、更高保真度的睡眠跟踪技术，甚至还具有打鼾检测功能，可以自动将您的头抬起几度，以改善气流并停止打鼾。
If you'd like to try an Eight Sleep mattress cover, go to eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $350 off their Pod 4 Ultra.
如果您想尝试 8 Sleep 床垫套，请访问 foursleep.com/huberman，Pod 4 Ultra 最多可节省 350 美元。
Eight Sleep currently ships in the USA, Canada, U.K., select countries in the EU and Australia.
八睡眠目前在美国、加拿大、英国、欧盟和澳大利亚的部分国家/地区发货。
Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman.
再说一遍，这是八睡眠.com/huberman。
Somehow, and we could talk about how, it's not a coincidence you became synonymous with foam rolling.
不知何故，我们可以谈谈如何，你成为泡沫轴滚压的代名词并非巧合。
It became synonymous with you.
它成了你的代名词。
That's okay.
没关系。
I mean it's not okay.
我的意思是这不行。
It's okay with me.
我没问题。
They weren't saying about me, but I was about to say it's okay.
他们没有说我，但我想说没关系。
Anytime somebody goes public facing and starts to try and educate people, you know people, there's certain things that are sticky, they have like high salience.
每当有人面向公众并开始尝试教育人们时，你知道人们，有些东西是粘性的，它们具有很高的显着性。
Like yes, I like to get into a cold plunge, but how I, how Andrew Huberman became associated with cold plunging or buying a cold plunge is wild.
是的，我喜欢冷跳，但我、安德鲁·胡伯曼如何与冷跳或购买冷跳联系在一起是疯狂的。
I mean, sure, I own one and you know this sort of thing and I think they're great for shifting your state.
我的意思是，当然，我拥有一个，你知道这类事情，我认为它们非常适合改变你的状态。
But it's hardly the cornerstone of my life or my existence.
但这并不是我生活或存在的基石。
But I love it.
但我喜欢它。
I use it, but I think foam rolling looked different enough from what people had not seen before.
我使用它，但我认为泡沫轴滚动看起来与人们以前从未见过的完全不同。
And it, you know, these things just, they have a stickiness to them.
你知道，这些东西对它们有粘性。
Who knows why?
谁知道为什么？
What is the deal with foam rolling?
泡沫轴滚压有什么关系？
Is there a utility to foam rolling?
泡沫轴滚压有什么用处吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Absolutely.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：当然。
Andrew Huberman: Is there a wrong way to do it?
Andrew Huberman：有错误的方法吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: No, but there's a way that's not a great use of your time.
Kelly Starrett 博士：不，但是有一种方法并不能充分利用您的时间。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So what we're all looking at is we have a finite amount of time and what's my goal?
Kelly Starrett 博士：那么我们所关心的是我们的时间是有限的，我的目标是什么？
To quickly touch my whole body?
快速触碰我的全身？
You know, what are we trying to do?
你知道，我们想做什么？
So if I was using soft tissue mobilization and, or using a roller or a ball or something, what's my goal here?
那么，如果我使用软组织动员，或者使用滚轮、球或其他东西，我的目标是什么？
Well, I think the research is very clear.
嗯，我认为这项研究非常清楚。
It can help with pain, it can restore range of motion.
它可以帮助缓解疼痛，可以恢复活动范围。
Again, very clear.
再说一遍，非常清楚。
And I want to point out one of my research friends, Brent Brookbush.
我想指出我的一位研究朋友，布伦特·布鲁克布什。
The Brookbush Institute has incredible summaries of musculoskeletal care.
布鲁克布什研究所对肌肉骨骼护理有令人难以置信的总结。
Brent is a genius and if you go on his site, there's a little hourglass and you can search like trigger points and you'll see all of the deep-dive research, analysis of the meta research.
布伦特是个天才，如果你访问他的网站，那里有一个小沙漏，你可以像触发点一样进行搜索，你会看到所有深入的研究和元研究的分析。
You'll be like, okay, this is really excellent.
你会说，好吧，这真的很棒。
And it is tricky because what doesn't work for my body or wasn't a good use for time now is useless.
这很棘手，因为对我的身体不起作用或不能很好地利用现在的时间的东西都是无用的。
And it's easy to shout on the internet.
而且在网上喊话也很容易。
So what's our goal?
那么我们的目标是什么？
If I was in pain and I was about to exercise, a quick two or three-minute intervention, working on, let's call it desensitization of the tissues.
如果我感到疼痛，而我正要锻炼，那么进行两三分钟的快速干预，我们可以称之为组织脱敏。
Let's, let's be mechanism agnostic for a second and say that's a really low level into entry safe, highly effective way for you to suddenly feel better.
让我们暂且与机制无关，并说这是一种非常低水平的进入安全、高效的方法，可以让你突然感觉更好。
So we create a window of opportunity to move.
因此，我们创造了一个移动的机会之窗。
That's really cool.
这真的很酷。
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
No physical therapist in the room.
房间里没有物理治疗师。
No one went blind.
没有人失明。
You didn't dislocate, right.
你没有脱臼，对吧。
So that could be a really excellent use of some soft tissue work.
所以这可能是对一些软组织工作的一个非常好的利用。
The same way a boxer would go or an MMA fighter or the Olympic lifters in China, they have people who are giving nonthreatening input to the body to tell the brain it's safe or to rehydrate something or get some again.
就像拳击手、综合格斗选手或中国奥运会举重运动员的做法一样，他们的工作人员向身体提供非威胁性的输入，告诉大脑它是安全的，或者补充水分或再次摄入一些东西。
Is it just stimulus so that the brain says it's safe?
难道只是刺激让大脑说它是安全的吗？
Sure.
当然。
Are we restoring how the tissues slide and glide?
我们是否正在恢复组织滑动的方式？
Sure.
当然。
A lot of times I think if you look at any of the mobility work, I'll just put, writ large, really comes down to just doing a couple things.
很多时候，我想，如果你看看任何流动性工作，我会简单地说，实际上归结为只做几件事。
Most of them are just isometrics.
其中大多数只是等轴测图。
So we have a lot of isometric which everyone can agree is good stuff.
所以我们有很多等轴测图，每个人都认为这是好东西。
And we do a lot of tempo work that's really just moving slowly through range.
我们做了很多节奏工作，实际上只是在范围内缓慢移动。
It just may be that I'm using a different tool to have that isometric stimulus or that tempo moving slowly stimulus.
可能只是我使用了不同的工具来进行等距刺激或节奏缓慢的刺激。
So we like to say hey, let's use mobilizations, mobilizing the tissues.
所以我们想说，嘿，让我们使用动员，动员组织。
Why are we doing it?
我们为什么这样做？
What are we trying to do?
我们想做什么？
Well, pain is a good reason and again, multifactorial, highly subjective.
好吧，疼痛是一个很好的理由，而且是多因素的、高度主观的。
Why do I have pain while I got in a fight with my wife and I didn't eat and I, you know, twisted my knee back in Vietnam and you know, who knows, right?
为什么我和妻子吵架时会感到疼痛，而且我没有吃东西，而且我，你知道，在越南扭伤了我的膝盖，你知道，谁知道，对吧？
But what are the inputs that I have to self-soothe and desensitize?
但我必须自我安慰和脱敏的输入是什么？
And it turns out a ball and a roller is a really good one.
事实证明，球和滚轮是非常好的选择。
So I can use those to help myself feel better.
所以我可以用这些来帮助自己感觉更好。
Did that solve the problem?
这解决了问题吗？
Did that solve two weeks of shitty sleep?
这解决了两周糟糕的睡眠问题吗？
Did that solve my poor nutrition and lack of fiber?
这是否解决了我营养不良和缺乏纤维的问题？
Did that solve the fact that I don't feel safe in this environment?
这是否解决了我在这种环境中感到不安全的问题？
No, but it got me a window of opportunity where I can go feel better in my body.
不，但它给了我一个机会之窗，让我的身体感觉更好。
Is anyone against that?
有人反对吗？
No. Okay, so what we can also say is, hey, this would be a great way to do what?
不，好吧，所以我们还可以说，嘿，这将是一个很好的方法来做什么？
Restore your range of motion.
恢复你的活动范围。
One tool in a system of tools to get you to do what?
工具系统中的一个工具可以帮助您做什么？
Have normative range again, right?
又有规范范围了吧？
For whatever reason, your lats are super stiff, your...
不管出于什么原因，你的背阔肌非常僵硬，你的...
doesn't...
不……
Again it's more complicated than that.
同样，情况比这更复杂。
But sometimes it's not more complicated than that.
但有时情况并不比这更复杂。
And if I just get you getting some input into there, maybe I can restore that range of motion or create a window where you can go use it again.
如果我让你在那里得到一些输入，也许我可以恢复那个运动范围或创建一个窗口，你可以再次使用它。
Lastly, I would say that it's a wonderful tool to decrease DOMS, delayed onset muscle soreness.
最后，我想说，它是减少 DOMS（延迟性肌肉酸痛）的绝佳工具。
So in the evening you blow out your quads, do a little soft tissue work and what you'll see is maybe that's blood flow, maybe it's nonthreatening input, maybe it's just massage, maybe it's just the parasympathetic input that massage has.
所以晚上你吹出你的股四头肌，做一些软组织工作，你会看到这可能是血流，可能是无威胁的输入，可能只是按摩，可能只是按摩所具有的副交感神经输入。
Touch, right, just downregulate.
触摸，对，只是下调。
Maybe those are the reasons I feel better.
也许这些就是我感觉更好的原因。
But the bottom line is, is that a good use of your time?
但最重要的是，这是否充分利用了你的时间？
Yes.
是的。
Are all techniques on the roller the same?
滚筒上的所有技术都一样吗？
No. Right.
不，对。
And I think that's where we've lost our minds is that if you, you just rolled up and down on your calf, didn't do anything, I'm like yeah, well you just, what are you doing?
我认为这就是我们失去理智的地方，如果你只是在小腿上滚来滚去，什么也没做，我会说，是的，好吧，你只是，你在做什么？
What if I rolled side-to-side, and so suddenly we can start to layer in some really complex thinking around this.
如果我从一侧滚动到另一侧，突然我们可以开始围绕这个进行一些非常复杂的思考，会怎么样？
How about this, you, you have a roller out and I put my calf on there and I start rolling side-to-side.
这个怎么样，你，你有一个滚轮，我把我的小腿放在那里，然后我开始从一边滚到另一边。
Should that be uncomfortable?
应该会感到不舒服吧？
Andrew Huberman: I'm guessing you're going to say no, but anytime I've used a roller, anytime I've used a roller, I'm like, man, that hurts.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我猜你会说不，但是每当我使用滚轮时，每当我使用滚轮时，我都会想，伙计，那很疼。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I don't like it, that sucks.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我不喜欢它，那很糟糕。
Andrew Huberman: Well, I mean I don't mind it like, it's not like the kind of, it's not like level, level 8 pain or anything.
Andrew Huberman：嗯，我的意思是我不介意它，它不像那种，它不像 8 级疼痛或任何东西。
It's just, it's sort of like, it feels very localized.
只是，有点像，感觉非常本地化。
Even if the roller is a big, fat Costello, the bulldog-size roller.
即使滚轮是一只又大又胖的科斯特洛，斗牛犬大小的滚轮。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Totally, totally.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：完全，完全。
Andrew Huberman: It feels like someone's kind of kneading down in between my muscle fibers, and then I start to think maybe I just have like low fiber density, and if I were Mark Bell or something then this would feel comfortable.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：感觉就像有人在我的肌肉纤维之间揉捏，然后我开始想也许我的纤维密度较低，如果我是马克·贝尔或其他人，那么这会感觉很舒服。
But you know, I, I always feel like the rollers going down to the bone.
但你知道，我，我总是感觉滚滚滚到骨头里。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --face of LFD, low fiber density.
Kelly Starrett 博士：——LFD 的面貌，纤维密度低。
So you know what I think we can do is let's establish some guidelines for people because this is, this is one of the ways that we can feel better in our home without bourbon, without ibuprofen, without THC.
所以你知道我认为我们可以做的是让我们为人们制定一些指导方针，因为这是我们在没有波本威士忌、没有布洛芬、没有四氢大麻酚的情况下在家中感觉更好的方法之一。
Like we need to give people some tools that don't...
就像我们需要给人们一些不...
like that aren't just--
那样不只是——
Andrew Huberman: --without having to buy a sauna if you can afford one.
Andrew Huberman：——如果你买得起的话，就不必购买桑拿房。
Great.
伟大的。
But not everyone, I mean this whole thing with saunas.
但不是每个人，我指的是桑拿的整个事情。
But doesn't, you know.
但事实并非如此，你知道。
Well, until very recently in my life, like I couldn't afford a sauna until very recently.
好吧，直到我生命中的最近一段时间，就像直到最近我才买得起桑拿房一样。
You know, even as a tenured professor at Stanford.
你知道，即使作为斯坦福大学的终身教授。
I'll just say that.
我就这么说吧。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: You can actually be angry at your parents for not giving you a sauna.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：实际上，您可以因为父母不给您桑拿而生气。
Andrew Huberman: No. You know, when I was a kid, my dad and I used to go to the Y in the evening sometimes when I was little and I'd shoot baskets or he would, he would lift weights.
安德鲁·休伯曼：不。你知道，当我还是个孩子的时候，我和爸爸有时会在晚上去 Y 球场，我会投篮，或者他会举重。
Nautilus machines back then.
那时的鹦鹉螺机器。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的。
And then get brutally--
然后残酷地——
Andrew Huberman: And then we'd sit in the sauna or there was a hot--
安德鲁·休伯曼：然后我们会坐在桑拿房里，或者那里很热——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --you had a different set of trauma, traumatic experiences of sitting in the sauna?
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——你在桑拿房里经历了一系列不同的创伤、创伤经历？
Andrew Huberman: No, actually I learned how.
Andrew Huberman：不，实际上我学会了如何做。
I learned how to make eye contact.
我学会了如何进行目光接触。
I learned how men over, over 40 spoke in 1985.
1985 年，我了解到 40 岁以上的男人是如何说话的。
There you go, there you go, there you go.
就这样，就这样，就这样。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: If everyone had a roller and a ball, there was a lot of dysfunction and discomfort.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：如果每个人都有一个滚轮和一个球，就会出现很多功能障碍和不适。
We can manage.
我们可以管理。
If you push on a tissue, we expect that tissue to be painless to compression or not uncomfortable to compression again.
如果您按压组织，我们预计该组织在压缩时不会感到疼痛，或者再次压缩时不会感到不舒服。
Pain is a weird word.
痛苦是一个奇怪的词。
I don't want to set that up.
我不想这样设置。
But you shouldn't be uncomfortable to do compression.
但你不应该因为压缩而感到不舒服。
What's nice is that if I push on something, all I'm doing is just creating an isometric, it's just a vector isometric.
好处是，如果我推动某件事，我所做的只是创建一个等轴测图，它只是一个矢量等轴测图。
Instead of pulling an isometric through the length of the tissue, I'm putting it at a different vector and angle.
我不是在组织的长度上拉出等轴测图，而是将其置于不同的矢量和角度。
So that would just be one.
所以这只是其中之一。
I could start there.
我可以从那里开始。
And if it was uncomfortable, well, guess what?
如果感觉不舒服，那么，你猜怎么着？
Now I can get my nervous system involved so I can teach my brain that it's safe to create a contraction here.
现在我可以让我的神经系统参与进来，这样我就可以告诉我的大脑在这里产生收缩是安全的。
So what do I do?
那我该怎么办？
Just flex, flex, hold it for four seconds.
只要弯曲，弯曲，保持四秒钟。
Andrew Huberman: This is very basic, I realize, but for many people, they're either already foam rolling and doing it incorrectly or they're not foam rolling.
Andrew Huberman：我意识到，这是非常基本的，但对于很多人来说，他们要么已经在进行泡沫轴滚动但做得不正确，要么他们没有进行泡沫轴滚动。
We want them to do it correctly.
我们希望他们做得正确。
So if I understand correctly, it's "okay" to flex the muscle that you have in contact with the foam roller while you're rolling.
因此，如果我理解正确的话，在滚动时弯曲与泡沫轴接触的肌肉是“可以的”。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: If I find something that's uncomfortable or stiff or doesn't feel like my other side, I'm going to stop.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：如果我发现某些东西不舒服或僵硬，或者感觉不像我的另一面，我就会停下来。
I found a place to work.
我找到了工作的地方。
I'm going to build technical...
我要打造技术...
a big inhale, so I take a 4-second inhale.
吸气很大，所以我吸气 4 秒。
I want to teach myself that I need to be able to breathe in this position.
我想教自己，我需要能够以这个姿势呼吸。
My, one of my, you know, friends, Greg Cook, is like, if you can't breathe in a position, you don't own a position.
我的，我的一位朋友，格雷格·库克，就像，如果你无法在一个职位上呼吸，那么你就不拥有一个职位。
You know, that sounds very Iyengar too, but what we're going to do is we're going to say it's okay to breathe here and I'm going to contract here and then I'm going to slowly relax and soften.
你知道，这听起来也很艾扬格，但我们要做的是我们会说在这里呼吸是可以的，我会在这里收缩，然后我会慢慢放松和软化。
That's tempo, that's moving slowly.
这就是节奏，节奏很慢。
And I can handle higher loads.
而且我可以承受更高的负载。
And what will end up happening is if I repeat that cycle two or three times, guess what?
如果我重复这个循环两到三次，最终会发生什么，你猜怎么着？
My brain desensitizes, that changes range of motion.
我的大脑变得不敏感，这改变了运动范围。
My brain suddenly is like, that's not a problem anymore.
我的大脑突然觉得，这不再是问题了。
So we just move on.
所以我们继续前进。
And in two or three cycles of that contraction, breath hold, long exhale.
在收缩、屏气、长呼气的两到三个周期中。
That starts to sound familiar, right?
这听起来很熟悉，对吧？
How do I calm down?
我该如何冷静下来？
Long exhales.
长长地呼了一口气。
I'm not trying to spin up, I'm trying to say this is safe.
我并不是想旋转，我只是想说这是安全的。
I've done that with my breath, I've done that with contraction.
我用呼吸做到了这一点，我用收缩做到了这一点。
I'm just getting input in, just touch to my body, especially on parts that maybe don't bark at me very often.
我只是接受输入，只是触摸我的身体，尤其是那些可能不经常对我吠叫的部位。
People are shocked to learn that sometimes when they have knee pain, how stiff their quads are.
人们惊讶地发现，有时当他们膝盖疼痛时，他们的股四头肌会变得多么僵硬。
And then we can test it, load it, feel it, palpate it.
然后我们可以测试它、加载它、感觉它、触诊它。
And I'm like, those things are just stiff.
我想，那些东西太僵硬了。
And when we unstiffen them, whatever technique you want to use, restore sliding surfaces, get neural input in there, we create range of motion.
当我们解除它们的僵硬时，无论您想使用什么技术，恢复滑动表面，在那里获得神经输入，我们都会创建运动范围。
Suddenly we change a motion dynamic.
突然我们改变了运动动态。
Improved efficiency.
提高效率。
The brain says, hey, that's no longer a threat.
大脑说，嘿，那不再是威胁了。
Or we're experiencing that as a new pattern or position.
或者我们正在将其视为一种新的模式或立场。
That'd be enough to reduce your pain.
这足以减轻你的痛苦。
But pain isn't the only reason we're mobilizing.
但痛苦并不是我们动员起来的唯一原因。
We're mobilizing so that we can reduce session cost, so we can work out harder the next day and keep an eye on our minimums of our range of motion.
我们动员起来是为了降低训练成本，这样我们就可以在第二天更加努力地锻炼，并注意我们的最小运动范围。
Andrew Huberman: Love this.
安德鲁·休伯曼：喜欢这个。
And another just very basic question, because I'll be honest, I haven't foam rolled much in my life.
还有一个非常基本的问题，因为说实话，我一生中很少使用泡沫轴。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And it doesn't have to be a big foam roll.
Kelly Starrett 博士：而且它不一定是一个大的泡沫卷。
Everyone, sometimes those big white...
每个人，有时那些大白...
those are pool noodles, right?
这些是泳池面条，对吧？
That's what it was for.
这就是它的目的。
I think, like made in Killeen, Texas, as like a manufacturing byproduct.
我认为，就像德克萨斯州基林制造的那样，就像制造业的副产品一样。
And someone's like, we could put these in the pool.
有人说，我们可以把这些放在游泳池里。
And then some physical therapist was like, sweet, like, that thing's way too big and too hard and too square and too soft.
然后一些物理治疗师说，亲爱的，就像，那个东西太大、太硬、太方形、太软。
Like, there's a whole bunch of things.
就像，有一大堆东西。
Like, sometimes you need an elbow, sometimes you need a forearm, sometimes you need a thumb.
就像，有时你需要肘部，有时你需要前臂，有时你需要拇指。
So you can have much smaller diameter.
所以你可以有更小的直径。
I'm a much bigger fan of smaller diameter rollers.
我更喜欢小直径的滚筒。
I just think they fit your body better.
我只是觉得它们更适合你的身体。
Andrew Huberman: Thank you for that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢你。
Also very helpful.
也非常有帮助。
Let's say I want to "loosen up" or move out some potential soreness or soreness from a given muscle, like the quadricep.
假设我想“放松”或消除特定肌肉（如股四头肌）的一些潜在酸痛或酸痛。
Does it make sense to start in the middle of that muscle, the top?
从肌肉的中部（顶部）开始有意义吗？
Can you work above and below the knee?
您可以锻炼膝盖上方和下方吗？
Are all of those things going to help?
所有这些事情都会有帮助吗？
I realize this is a much fuller discussion than we can have a few minutes, but, like, how should I approach it?
我意识到这是一个比我们几分钟更全面的讨论，但是，我应该如何处理它？
I'm like, okay, you know, my quads are a little sore, or my back is sore.
我想，好吧，你知道，我的股四头肌有点酸痛，或者我的背部酸痛。
Do I go straight to the back or do I start with another, with another body region?
我是直接到后面还是从另一个身体部位开始？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I don't think it matters.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我认为这并不重要。
What I want, interested in, is inputs and outputs, right?
我想要的、感兴趣的是输入和输出，对吧？
What I'm really interested in is what did you do to make yourself feel better?
我真正感兴趣的是你做了什么让自己感觉更好？
Did you just hope it would just go away and then one day it didn't and then you had to activate the emergency medical system.
您是否只是希望它会消失，然后有一天它没有消失，然后您必须启动紧急医疗系统。
So let's define a couple things.
让我们定义一些事情。
What is an injury?
什么是伤害？
This is a great question.
这是一个很好的问题。
Injury for us is, there's a clear mechanism of mechanical trauma.
对我们来说伤害是，有明确机制的机械性创伤。
There's a bone sticking out of your leg.
你的腿上有一根骨头伸出来。
Andrew, time to go to the hospital.
安德鲁，该去医院了。
Injured, right?
受伤了是吗？
You're injured, right?
你受伤了，对吧？
I heard a snap and a pop.
我听到“啪”的一声和“砰”的一声。
Andrew Huberman: Yikes.
安德鲁·休伯曼：哎呀。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I have night sweats, dizziness, fever, vomiting, nausea, unaccounted for weight loss, weight gain, changes in my bladder, bowel function problem, my cough, sneeze or swell, those are red flags you're in.
凯利·斯塔雷特医生：我有盗汗、头晕、发烧、呕吐、恶心、不明原因的体重减轻、体重增加、膀胱变化、肠道功能问题、咳嗽、打喷嚏或肿胀，这些都是您所处的危险信号。
Not sore, you're sick.
不是疼，是你有病。
Let me introduce you to the doctor again, right?
让我再给你介绍一下医生吧？
If your pain or dysfunction is so bad you can't occupy a role in your family, can't occupy a role in society, can't occupy a role in the team, that's an emergency problem.
如果你的疼痛或功能障碍非常严重，你无法在家庭中占据一席之地，无法在社会中占据一席之地，无法在团队中占据一席之地，那就是一个紧急问题。
That is a medical condition that needs medical.
这是一种需要医疗的疾病。
So you come in today, you tweaked your back.
所以你今天进来时，你扭伤了背部。
It may need, we need to activate EMS, need to go to the hospital, we need to get...
可能需要,我们需要启动EMS,需要去医院,我们需要得到...
Because it's so severe you can't do your job.
因为情况太严重了，你无法完成你的工作。
Everything else I want to call noninjury.
其他一切我想称之为非伤害。
I want to be very specific with the language I use.
我想非常具体地说明我使用的语言。
We call it an incident.
我们称之为事件。
It actually comes out of this sort of language.
它实际上是从这种语言中产生的。
There's a guy, here's the long way around the barn.
有一个人，这里是谷仓周围的很长一段路。
I read this great book called "Deep Survival," which is by Laurence Gonzalez, which is about why people end up in survival situations.
我读了劳伦斯·冈萨雷斯（Laurence Gonzalez）写的一本名为《深度生存》（Deep Survival）的好书，讲述了为什么人们最终会陷入生存困境。
And it's literally a lot about...
从字面上看，这涉及到很多...
we got away with it for a long time and then I just didn't have a...
我们侥幸逃脱了很长一段时间，然后我就没有......
I ended up two miles out to sea.
我最终出海了两英里。
I've done it a million times and this time, right, that's it.
我已经这样做了一百万次了，这一次，对了，就是这样。
But there was a footnote in there from a book called "Normal Accidents," by Charles Perrow, who's recently passed on.
但其中有一个脚注来自查尔斯·佩罗最近去世的一本名为《正常事故》的书。
I emailed Charles because I was like, this has blown my mind.
我给查尔斯发了电子邮件，因为我想，这让我大吃一惊。
He calls a lot of times we'll have trivial events in nontrivial systems.
他多次打电话给我们，我们会在不平凡的系统中发生琐碎的事件。
So he's taking systems thinking.
所以他正在采取系统思维。
He's looking at complex system organization.
他正在研究复杂的系统组织。
And his idea is that an accident, a normal accident is actually just expression of the system.
他的想法是，事故，正常的事故其实只是系统的表现。
If you gave the system long enough to express itself, the input and outputs are so tightly coupled that it's difficult to see what causes what and how they influence each other.
如果你给系统足够长的时间来表达自己，那么输入和输出就会紧密耦合，以至于很难看出什么导致什么以及它们如何相互影响。
That's the body.
这就是身体。
So your stiff shoulder isn't a problem until you fall on the ice.
因此，在您跌倒在冰上之前，肩膀僵硬不会成为问题。
And then that stiff shoulder suddenly can't take over pressure and overhead and you tear your rotator cuff off at high speed.
然后僵硬的肩膀突然无法承受压力和头顶压力，你就会高速撕裂你的肩袖。
You'd say, oh, black swan event.
你可能会说，哦，黑天鹅事件。
Super crazy.
超级疯狂。
But that's actually just a normal expression of that shoulder system.
但这实际上只是肩膀系统的正常表达。
If we gave it enough time to express itself.
如果我们给它足够的时间来表达自己。
So he had a sort of, like, incident and accident.
所以他遇到了某种事件和事故。
So an incident is.
所以有一个事件。
I want us to start to think about incident level problems.
我希望我们开始思考事件级别的问题。
Our pain, loss of range of motion, numbness, tingle.
我们的疼痛、活动范围丧失、麻木、刺痛。
We're becoming curious.
我们越来越好奇了。
Why is the brain sending me the signals?
为什么大脑向我发送信号？
Pain is a request for change.
痛苦是对改变的要求。
So when we ask our athletic population, I just did this with a hundred kids, I'm like, how many of you are pain free?
所以当我们询问我们的运动员群体时，我刚刚对一百个孩子做了这个，我想，你们中有多少人没有疼痛？
One hundred high school kids.
一百个高中生。
Two hands go up.
两只手举起来。
Two.
二。
Andrew Huberman: High school.
安德鲁·休伯曼：高中。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: High school.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：高中。
So what we're suddenly realizing is that pain is very much a part of the athletic condition.
所以我们突然意识到疼痛是运动状况的一部分。
The human experience, certainly the athletic experience.
人类的体验，当然还有运动体验。
You've been in pain a billion times and still gone out and done the thing.
你已经经历了十亿次痛苦，但仍然出去做那件事。
So what we want to do is say, pain is not always a medical problem.
所以我们想说的是，疼痛并不总是一个医学问题。
It's a medical problem when...
这是一个医疗问题，当...
The rest of the time we're saying, how are you using fitness training as a scaffolding to understand nutrition, hydration, soft tissue work, desensitization, reperfusion of the tissues.
剩下的时间我们会说，你如何使用健身训练作为支架来了解营养、水合作用、软组织工作、脱敏、组织再灌注。
So that's what we're trying to do in sport and training, is empower people to say, what's going on with my body and why don't I feel the way I do?
这就是我们在运动和训练中试图做的事情，就是让人们能够说出我的身体出了什么问题，以及为什么我没有这样的感觉？
Or why does something hurt and why can't I remedy that?
或者为什么有些东西会受伤而我却无法补救？
And then when I run out of ideas, let me go get some help.
然后当我没有想法时，让我去寻求帮助。
Andrew Huberman: So the rolling we can think of as a way to move out soreness, prepare us for more work the next day, or something like that.
Andrew Huberman：因此，我们可以将滚动视为消除酸痛的一种方法，为我们第二天的更多工作做好准备，或者类似的事情。
But is it fair to say that we can also use the roller as a diagnostic tool?
但是否可以说我们也可以使用滚筒作为诊断工具呢？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Sure.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：当然。
Andrew Huberman: Like, if I'm feeling like an unusual amount of, not unusual, but let's just say that I'm feeling like a wuss.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：就像，如果我感觉自己像个不寻常的人，也不是不寻常的人，但我们只能说我感觉像个胆小鬼。
Because when I, when I lie down on that roller and I like, you know, like slide back and forth like, I've seen the videos of you and other folks doing that, I'm like, man, that really hurts.
因为当我躺在滚轮上时，我喜欢来回滑动，我看过你和其他人这样做的视频，我想，伙计，这真的很痛。
Does that necessarily mean something's wrong?
这是否一定意味着有什么问题？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: No, okay, so it means, it means that, for whatever reason, those tissues have become sensitized and that your brain is interpreting that stiffness as a threat and it's reading it as pain.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：不，好吧，所以这意味着，无论出于何种原因，这些组织已经变得敏感，并且你的大脑将这种僵硬解释为威胁，并将其解读为疼痛。
And some people, they don't have that.
而有些人则没有这样的能力。
They just, their tissues feel like this, but they don't have pain when they do that.
他们只是，他们的组织感觉像这样，但他们这样做时并没有疼痛。
But that's not a normal tissue.
但这不是正常组织。
You should be like layers of warm silk sliding over steel springs.
你应该像一层层温暖的丝绸在钢弹簧上滑动。
Andrew Huberman: And what you're seeing is what quality tissue should be.
Andrew Huberman：您所看到的是优质组织应有的样子。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah, absolutely.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的，绝对如此。
Andrew Huberman: Layers of silk over steel springs.
Andrew Huberman：钢弹簧上的丝绸层。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Layers of silk over steel springs.
Kelly Starrett 博士：钢弹簧上的丝绸层。
And what we see is that we are loading and training at such high intensities and such density now that our tissues get stiff, I'm just going to hang stiffness as, for whatever reason, high fibrotic, high density of tissues, whatever reason, the tissues don't behave the way the joint system should.
我们看到的是，我们正在以如此高的强度和密度进行负荷和训练，现在我们的组织变得僵硬，我只是要保持僵硬，因为无论出于何种原因，组织的高纤维化、高密度，无论出于何种原因，组织都不会按照关节系统应有的方式表现。
And that's a problem because my training shouldn't mitigate or attenuate or change my range of motion.
这是一个问题，因为我的训练不应该减轻、减弱或改变我的运动范围。
It can, but now how am I keeping an eye on those changes?
可以，但现在我如何关注这些变化呢？
Or as you said earlier here, as I do a sport and I start to do a sport and specialize, I'm throwing, throwing, or I swim or I kick on one side, how can I start to identify as my body is changing and adapting that sport so I can drag myself back to a sort of a greater readiness?
或者正如你之前所说的，当我做一项运动，我开始做一项运动并专门化，我在投掷，投掷，或者我游泳或我踢一侧时，我如何开始识别我的身体正在改变和适应这项运动，以便我可以把自己拉回到一种更好的准备状态？
And that's one of the reasons that that mobilization tool is such a powerful tool.
这就是该动员工具如此强大的原因之一。
Again, however you want to do it, I think it's useful for us when we have...
再说一次，无论你想做什么，我认为当我们...
I came up with this thing called the D2R2 model because the other ray was taken by R2D2.
我想出了这个叫做 D2R2 模型的东西，因为另一条光线是由 R2D2 拍摄的。
So the first order of business is I want to desensitize if something hurts.
所以首要任务是如果有什么东西伤害了我，我要脱敏。
Something hurts, let's desensitize it.
有些东西很痛，让我们麻木不仁吧。
I can do that in all different ways.
我可以用各种不同的方式做到这一点。
Scraping is powerful.
刮痧的威力很大。
Desensitization, isometrics can be really useful.
脱敏、等轴测图确实很有用。
Rolling, BFR can give me desensitization.
滚动，BFR 可以让我脱敏。
There's so many techniques to make my body--
有很多技巧可以塑造我的身体——
Andrew Huberman: Blood flow restriction.
安德鲁·休伯曼：血流限制。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah, blood flow restriction.
Kelly Starrett 博士：是的，血流限制。
So that no longer my brain is perceiving this as a threat.
这样我的大脑就不再将其视为威胁。
Because if you're in pain, you cannot generate the same amount of force or wattage or output.
因为如果你感到疼痛，你就无法产生相同的力量、瓦数或输出。
And your brain is going to start to truncate, it's going to start to lop off your movement solutions.
你的大脑将开始截断，它将开始削减你的运动解决方案。
It's just going to happen.
它即将发生。
So we want our, we want everyone to be saying, hey, we don't panic, we have pain, we just treat it like another diagnostic tool.
所以我们希望我们希望每个人都说，嘿，我们不恐慌，我们有痛苦，我们只是把它当作另一种诊断工具来对待。
Then second D.
然后是第二个D。
We desensitize.
我们脱敏。
And then we ask, is this something that can be decongested?
然后我们问，这是可以缓解拥堵的吗？
So decongestion means that oftentimes tissues that are swollen become more easily sensitized.
因此，缓解充血通常意味着肿胀的组织更容易变得敏感。
Tissues that are swollen and congested don't heal as fast.
肿胀和充血的组织愈合速度不会那么快。
If you have a swollen ankle, those collagen fibers will not knit together as fast...
如果你的脚踝肿胀，那些胶原纤维就不会那么快地结合在一起......
If you have a joint that's swollen or a tissue that's swollen, your brain will shut down force production in and around that joint system.
如果你的关节或组织肿胀，你的大脑就会停止关节系统内部和周围的力量产生。
Is swelling an emergency?
肿胀是紧急情况吗？
No. Is a swollen joint environment really healthy for the integrity and surface of the joint?
不会。肿胀的关节环境真的对关节的完整性和表面有益吗？
No. We want to manage that.
不，我们想要解决这个问题。
But oftentimes when someone comes in and the tissue is congested, right, just sometimes we say swelling and we think ankle, only capsular.
但通常当有人进来时，组织就会充血，对吧，只是有时我们说肿胀，我们认为脚踝，只是关节囊。
But here we have.
但我们这里有。
If you've ever flown on an airplane and had cankles, that's congested tissue.
如果您曾经乘坐过飞机并且有脚踝，那就是组织充血。
If we manage that congestion, if we move those lymphatics along, muscle contraction drives the lymphatic drainage.
如果我们控制住充血，如果我们移动这些淋巴管，肌肉收缩就会推动淋巴引流。
The lymph system is the sewage system of the body.
淋巴系统是身体的排污系统。
Decongested tissues often express less pain.
充血减轻的组织通常表现出较少的疼痛。
And what we find is that in broken bones or soft tissue injuries, if we can better evacuate that swelling, better evacuate that congestion, not only do we see you now healing at the rate of a human being, we're not rate limiting the healing, but also we can help you manage that sensitivity.
我们发现，在骨折或软组织损伤中，如果我们能够更好地消除肿胀，更好地消除充血，我们不仅会看到您现在以人类的速度愈合，我们不会限制愈合速度，而且我们还可以帮助您管理这种敏感性。
Then the third one is, can we get some blood flow in there?
那么第三个问题是，我们可以让那里有一些血流吗？
Like you said, I, once I warm up, I feel great.
就像你说的，一旦我热身起来，我感觉很棒。
Welcome to the power of blood flow.
欢迎来到血液流动的力量。
Tissues become hydrated, we're shifting blood from the stomach.
组织变得水合，我们正在从胃中转移血液。
All the things that happen, right?
所有发生的事情，对吗？
All that venous return is coming back on board.
所有静脉回流都会回到船上。
But suddenly we see that if we get something pumped of blood, it tends to be less painful.
但我们突然发现，如果我们抽出一些血液，疼痛往往会减轻。
And that's really easy.
这真的很容易。
So if I have an old orthopedic thing, maybe I spend a few minutes just getting a huge quad pump on the leg extension machine.
因此，如果我有一个旧的矫形器，也许我会花几分钟在腿部伸展机上安装一个巨大的四泵。
Then I go squat heavy, right?
然后我就深蹲，对吧？
So now I have desensitization, decongestion, reperfusion.
所以现在我有脱敏、减充血、再灌注。
Whatever tool you want to use for these is fair game with me, just as how I've come to kind of conceptualize these different tools.
无论你想使用什么工具，对我来说都是公平的游戏，就像我如何概念化这些不同的工具一样。
And the last one is restore.
最后一项是恢复。
Do you have full range of motion, full normal in that joint, yes or no?
您的关节活动范围是否完全正常，是还是否？
Because that's the last thing that we talk about.
因为这是我们谈论的最后一件事。
Because you're still able to perform your sport at college or do your job, but we're not seeing how in excess your ability to not access that range of motion may be limiting your movement choice and potentially overloading a tissue by making it work in a less effective manner.
因为你仍然可以在大学进行运动或完成你的工作，但我们没有看到你无法进行该运动范围的能力可能会限制你的运动选择，并可能通过使其以较低效率的方式工作而使组织超载。
Andrew Huberman: Or even just leading to progressively worse and worse posture, which is probably--
Andrew Huberman：或者甚至只是导致姿势越来越糟糕，这可能是——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --well, define posture for me because I think that's a really great place to start.
Kelly Starrett 博士：——好吧，为我定义一下姿势，因为我认为这是一个非常好的起点。
Right?
正确的？
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
I can define bad posture as when you catch yourself in a reflection and you realize, wow, I'm starting to.
我可以将不良姿势定义为当你陷入反思时，你意识到，哇，我开始这样做了。
I'm starting to look more like a C--
我开始看起来更像一个 C--
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --I love it--
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——我喜欢——
Andrew Huberman: --than an I.
安德鲁·休伯曼：——比 I.
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's so great.
Kelly Starrett 博士：那太好了。
You know, the question is, is that a matter of aesthetics or pain?
你知道，问题是，这是美观问题还是痛苦问题？
Andrew Huberman: Well, certainly for me it's not pain, but, you know, I--
安德鲁·胡伯曼：嗯，当然对我来说这不是痛苦，但是，你知道，我——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --it's not becoming injury--
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——这并没有变成伤害——
Andrew Huberman: --it's not becoming.
安德鲁·休伯曼：——这不合适。
I notice that unless I pay attention to my posture while sitting, unless I do a, you know, like, bridge my fingers together and pull my chin back a few times a day, that I'm just naturally starting to tip over forward towards my text messages that aren't even in my hands right now.
我注意到，除非我在坐着时注意自己的姿势，除非我每天几次将手指桥在一起并向后拉下巴，否则我就会自然地开始向前倾斜，看我现在甚至不在手中的短信。
And I think this is, you know, the younger generation.
我认为这是年轻一代。
I mean, now that I'm 49, I can talk like that, right?
我的意思是，现在我已经49岁了，我可以这样说话，对吗？
I mean, it's striking.
我的意思是，这很引人注目。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Were you born in the 1900s?
Kelly Starrett 博士：您出生于 1900 年代吗？
Andrew Huberman: The late 1900s.
Andrew Huberman：1900 年代末。
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: You're an old man.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：你是个老人了。
Andrew Huberman: They're starting to look like they're shaped like a C.
Andrew Huberman：它们开始看起来像 C 形。
And I'm a big believer in people, especially men, doing neck work.
我非常相信人们，尤其是男性，应该做颈部工作。
I feel like, like if, if you.
我感觉就像，如果，如果你。
Especially if--
尤其是如果——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --how about especially people doing neck work.
凯利·斯塔雷特 (Kelly Starrett) 博士：——尤其是从事颈部工作的人怎么样？
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Well, here's the thing.
嗯，事情是这样的。
Anytime...
任何时候...
I'm happy to go there with this one.
我很高兴能和这个一起去那里。
Maybe even at the risk of being politically incorrect, anytime I've suggested that women also do neck work, they say no.
也许即使冒着政治不正确的风险，每当我建议女性也做颈部护理时，她们都会拒绝。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: You should see my goalie daughter.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：你应该看看我的守门员女儿。
Because for every pound stronger your neck is, your reduction in concussion risk drops huge.
因为颈部每加强一磅，脑震荡风险就会大幅降低。
A pound.
一磅。
Andrew Huberman: Thank you.
安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So we keep the iron neck by the door and she walks in and there's a...
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：所以我们把铁脖子放在门边，她走进来，有一个......
We have a video in our family where she's doing her iron neck training.
我们家里有一段她正在进行铁颈训练的视频。
She looks at me, she's like, Dad, this is why I don't have a boyfriend.
她看着我，说，爸爸，这就是我没有男朋友的原因。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Sorry, Caroline, but that's the way it goes, right?
抱歉，卡罗琳，但事情就是这样，对吧？
Because she's like, look at me.
因为她就像，看着我。
I look like an idiot.
我看起来像个白痴。
But she loves having a big strong neck that doesn't...
但她喜欢有一个又大又强壮的脖子，这样就不会……
can take the shot from the ball.
可以从球上射门。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, listen, I wish everyone would train their neck.
Andrew Huberman：是的，听着，我希望每个人都能训练他们的脖子。
I had an accident where I fell off a roof, walked away from it.
我发生了一次事故，从屋顶上摔下来，然后逃离了屋顶。
My neck was sore, but I heard it and felt it and I was like, oh, goodness.
我的脖子很酸，但我听到并感觉到它，我就想，哦，天哪。
But it was actually from skateboarding stuff and falling and that I started training my neck years ago and realized that, wow, when I train my neck, I'm one of the few people in my age cohort that doesn't complain about shoulder pain.
但实际上是因为滑板和摔倒，我几年前开始训练我的颈部，并意识到，哇，当我训练我的颈部时，我是我这个年龄段中少数几个不抱怨肩膀疼痛的人之一。
Now maybe I don't have full range of motion.
现在也许我没有完全的活动范围。
Maybe I'm hanging out with the wrong people.
也许我和错误的人在一起。
But anytime I see somebody with really broad shoulders, shoulders where their neck is really inside of their jawline, it looks like a head was placed on the wrong action figure body.
但每当我看到有人肩膀很宽，肩膀真的在下巴线内侧时，看起来就像是把头放在了错误的人偶身体上。
I just want to go over to them and say, listen--
我只想走过去对他们说，听着——
A, it's aesthetically ridiculous.
A，这在美学上是荒谬的。
It looks like one of those flip books in the kids where you can change the head, the body and the legs to be different animals.
它看起来就像一本儿童翻书，你可以把头、身体和腿变成不同的动物。
More seriously, it's a hazard because it's your upper spine.
更严重的是，这是一种危险，因为它是你的上脊柱。
It's clearly not in line with the rest of your strength profile.
这显然与你的其他力量状况不符。
And the other one is the more incentive-based thing is, hey, listen, if you train your neck, everything else gets stronger and your brain is going to be safer.
另一个是更基于激励的事情，嘿，听着，如果你训练你的脖子，其他一切都会变得更强，你的大脑也会更安全。
And as a neuroscientist, they usually listen to the last piece.
作为神经科学家，他们通常会听最后一段。
I might.
我可能会。
So I'm so glad we're talking about this.
所以我很高兴我们正在谈论这个。
I do bridges.
我做桥梁。
I know that it can be risky with tongue in the roof of my mouth.
我知道舌头放在上颚是有风险的。
I like, I do bridges to the back.
我喜欢，我会在后面做桥梁。
And then I do have a four-way neck machine or I use a plate.
然后我有一个四向颈部机器或者我使用一个板。
Jeff Cavaliere's got a great video of how to do this that we can link to.
Jeff Cavaliere 有一个关于如何执行此操作的精彩视频，我们可以链接到该视频。
How to do it safely.
如何安全地做到这一点。
You gotta, you gotta close the chain by having a hand on the ground, this kind of thing, to do it safely.
你必须，你必须把手放在地上，这样的事情，才能安全地完成，从而关闭链条。
But I've just found that neck work also serves posture.
但我刚刚发现颈部工作也有助于姿势。
Posture serves the ability to make eye contact when you have those things we call conversations with people in real life.
当你在现实生活中与人进行对话时，姿势可以提供眼神交流的能力。
And I do think it, these things stack up to, we won't call it psychological confidence, but the ability to meet somebody, you know, like a firm handshake, you're not trying to crush the other person's hand.
我确实认为，这些东西叠加起来，我们不会称之为心理自信，而是与某人见面的能力，你知道，就像坚定的握手一样，你不会试图压碎对方的手。
Look people in the eye, stand up straight.
看着人们的眼睛，站直。
Whatever your height, these things really matter.
无论您的身高如何，这些事情都非常重要。
In subtle ways or not so subtle ways.
以微妙的方式或不那么微妙的方式。
I think that I do feel like, yes, that the younger generation and the older generation, that they sort of drop, they kind of drop out of certain elements of life.
我想我确实觉得，是的，年轻一代和老一代，他们有点下降，他们有点脱离了生活的某些元素。
If you're looking down at the ground or your phone all the time, you can't look people in the eye.
如果你一直低头看着地面或手机，你就无法直视别人的眼睛。
You're posturally not right, you're in pain, you're not as strong as you could be.
你的姿势不正确，你很痛苦，你没有你应有的力量。
I mean these things stack up to being like in an aquarium full of fish, you're becoming the fish in the background that's like, you know, like it was kind of sickly and the other fish are getting all the good stuff.
我的意思是，这些东西叠加起来就像在一个充满鱼的水族馆里，你变成了背景中的鱼，就像它有点病了，而其他鱼却得到了所有好东西。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: If you define posture as like, the Latin word root is position.
Kelly Starrett 博士：如果你将姿势定义为“like”，那么拉丁词根就是“position”。
So we're really saying, I have good position, I have bad position.
所以我们实际上是在说，我的位置很好，我的位置很差。
One of the ways I think we've lost the narrative a little bit is we try to give people these extrinsic cues to correct their posture.
我认为我们有点失去叙述的方式之一是我们试图给人们这些外在线索来纠正他们的姿势。
Shoulders back and down, check your tent, legs.
肩膀向后和向下，检查你的帐篷、腿。
So all of a sudden you're like, when am I going to be a human being?
所以突然间你会想，我什么时候才能成为一个人？
How do I practice this when I'm doing a complex skill?
当我在做一项复杂的技能时，我该如何练习呢？
So the organization of your body, the organization of your spine particularly really is a reflection of your movement habits, your behaviors, your self-identity.
所以你身体的组织，特别是你脊柱的组织，实际上反映了你的运动习惯、你的行为、你的自我认同。
There's a lot of things in there, right?
里面有很多东西，对吧？
You didn't get the job , you won the, got the number from Juliet , or--
你没有得到这份工作，你赢得了这份工作，从朱丽叶那里得到了电话号码，或者——
Andrew Huberman: You're sleep deprived, you've been--
Andrew Huberman：你睡眠不足，你一直——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --or--
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——或者——
Andrew Huberman: --and I'm gonna call myself out because people are gonna do it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：——我要大声疾呼，因为人们会这么做。
There are many times on this podcast when I go and I look at the...
当我去看这个播客时，有很多次……
Because I do listen to the podcast, trying to see places I can improve, etc, and I'll be like, wow, my posture.
因为我确实听播客，试图找出我可以改进的地方，等等，我会说，哇，我的姿势。
I'm like hunched over.
我好像弯腰了
And I think to myself--
我心里想——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Are you just reflecting my posture?
Kelly Starrett 博士：你只是反映了我的姿势吗？
Andrew Huberman: No, no. And I track my sleep.
安德鲁·休伯曼：不，不。我记录我的睡眠情况。
So, you know, go back and look.
所以，你知道吗，回去看看吧。
I'll be like, yeah, I wasn't sleeping as well those days, or whatever it is.
我会说，是的，那些天我睡得不好，或者无论如何。
I mean, I think that we are all guilty of not paying enough attention to our posture.
我的意思是，我认为我们都因没有对自己的姿势给予足够的关注而感到内疚。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So what we can do is we could define posture as there is a median range of the joint positioning where we simultaneously have most access to our physiology.
Kelly Starrett 博士：所以我们能做的是我们可以定义姿势，因为关节位置存在一个中间范围，在这个范围内我们同时最容易了解我们的生理学。
And I'll explain that a little more.
我会再解释一下。
But also, those shapes aren't associated with increased pain risk and increased injury risk, which is real.
而且，这些形状与疼痛风险和受伤风险的增加无关，这是真实的。
The research does bear that, that there are positions and shapes that lead to less effective movement, are more likely to experience pain.
研究确实表明，某些位置和形状会导致运动效果较差，更有可能经历疼痛。
It's probabilistic.
这是概率性的。
It's not guaranteed.
这并不能保证。
It's more likely.
可能性更大。
So one of the things that I think you could understand is, hey, do you want to have access to all of the machinery?
因此，我认为您可以理解的一件事是，嘿，您想访问所有机器吗？
So go ahead and slouch.
所以继续吧，无精打采。
Go ahead with me and then just turn over your shoulder [slouches forward and turns head to the right].
跟我一起走，然后转过你的肩膀（向前弯腰，头向右转）。
How far can you turn?
你能转多远？
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, not very far.
Andrew Huberman：是的，不是很远。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Now watch this.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：现在看这个。
Get into a position where you take a huge breath.
采取一个深呼吸的姿势。
Get to the biggest position when you take the biggest, biggest breath.
当你最大程度地呼吸时，你就会到达最大的位置。
Okay, so that's a pretty rocking shape.
好吧，这是一个相当摇摆的形状。
Now turn your head.
现在转过头来。
It goes further.
它更进一步。
So by you being cued, can you adopt a shape, an organization of your trunk that allowed you to ventilate a little bit more effectively?
那么，根据提示，你能采取一种形状、一种躯干组织方式，让你更有效地通风吗？
You completely changed and reorganized your structure, which led to an improvement in output.
你彻底改变并重组了你的结构，这导致了产量的提高。
So when I'm working with people, there's only two things I really can wrap my head around.
因此，当我与人合作时，只有两件事是我真正能思考的。
One is, do you have normative range of motion?
一是，你有标准的运动范围吗？
Yes or no?
是还是不是？
What are the tools we have to restore that and improve that?
我们有哪些工具可以恢复并改进它？
And does that expression give us greater biomotor output?
这种表达方式会给我们带来更大的生物运动输出吗？
Because those are objective measures when biomotor output, I mean range of motion, force production power.
因为这些是生物运动输出时的客观衡量标准，我指的是运动范围、力量产生能力。
Right, I see that.
是的，我明白了。
And I can express the physiology in a unique way that makes me, you know, more effective.
我可以用一种独特的方式表达生理学，这让我，你知道，更有效。
And that is why you'll see suddenly we have this definition that is maintaining the physiology and aspects.
这就是为什么你会突然看到我们有这个定义，即维持生理学和方面。
I'm not going to have as good shoulder flexion with my arm over a head as when I'm sitting up taller or in a position where I can take a bigger breath.
当我坐得更高或处于可以大口呼吸的位置时，当我将手臂举过头顶时，我的肩膀弯曲不会那么好。
And I think that's what's really great because that gets us away from good posture, bad posture, into, hey, that position doesn't serve you as well in these circumstances.
我认为这才是真正伟大的事情，因为这可以让我们远离良好的姿势、不良的姿势，而进入，嘿，在这种情况下，那个姿势对你来说不太适合。
And in this position...
而在这个位置上...
I'm working with the pararescue team in the Air Force.
我在空军伞兵救援队工作。
The number one reason they were having back injuries was getting this litter out of the helicopter is...
他们背部受伤的首要原因是将这些垃圾从直升机中取出是......
because they have a litter.
因为他们有一窝。
The soldiers there with all their gear on, they've got a loop lift from a totally weird flexed position.
那里的士兵们全副武装，他们从一个完全奇怪的弯曲位置得到了一个环形升降机。
And this turns out that's not a really effective posture position shape that transfers to handling these higher loads.
事实证明，这并不是一个真正有效的姿势位置形状，可以转移到处理这些更高的负载。
So what do we do?
那么我们该怎么办呢？
We work on the range of motion, we give them skills to try to organize more effectively in that shape.
我们致力于运动的范围，我们赋予他们技能，以尝试更有效地组织这种形状。
And lo and behold, we can reduce injury risk and injury incident in those soldiers.
你瞧，我们可以减少这些士兵的受伤风险和受伤事件。
So what we're always thinking about here is let's get away from good and bad, and like posture doesn't matter.
所以我们一直在这里思考的是让我们远离好与坏，就像姿势并不重要。
And it also doesn't matter at low load, low speed.
在低负载、低速度下这也无关紧要。
And I want to be very clear about that.
我想非常清楚地说明这一点。
So you can get away with murder at low velocities and low speeds, but speed kills.
所以你可以以低速和低速逃脱谋杀，但速度杀人。
Oh, everyone's fine.
哦，大家都很好。
But when that speed wobble starts to happen, we start to see greater likelihood of deflection from posture.
但当速度开始出现波动时，我们开始发现姿势偏离的可能性更大。
Your abs don't work as effectively.
你的腹肌无法有效发挥作用。
You can't create the same intra-abdominal pressure.
您无法产生相同的腹内压力。
Check, check, check, check, check.
检查，检查，检查，检查，检查。
So that's why we always are saying, hey, is this true that you're saying under high load, high speed when there's consequence?
所以这就是为什么我们总是说，嘿，你所说的在高负载、高速度下发生后果是真的吗？
Because maybe this set of conditions works under these conditions, but it doesn't work across all conditions.
因为也许这组条件在这些条件下有效，但并不是在所有条件下都有效。
And for me, I'm trying to take the best information I have working in sports and performance and trying to transmute that to my family, transmute that to my neighborhood and to the kids I'm working with.
对我来说，我正在努力获取我在体育和表演方面的最佳信息，并尝试将其转化为我的家人，我的邻居和与我一起工作的孩子们。
Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, LMNT.
Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下，并向我们的赞助商之一 LMNT 表示感谢。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need but nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，但没有您不需要的。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的比例都正确，但不含糖。
Proper hydration is critical for optimal brain and body function.
适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体的最佳功能至关重要。
Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish cognitive and physical performance.
即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低认知和身体表现。
It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.
获得充足的电解质也很重要。
The electrolytes sodium, magnesium and potassium are vital for the functioning of all the cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.
电解质钠、镁和钾对于体内所有细胞的功能至关重要，尤其是神经元或神经细胞。
Drinking LMNT dissolved in water makes it extremely easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.
饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT 可以非常轻松地确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。
To make sure that I'm getting proper amounts of hydration and electrolytes, I dissolve one packet of element in about 16-32 oz of water when I wake up in the morning.
为了确保我获得适量的水分和电解质，我在早上醒来时将一包元素溶解在大约 16-32 盎司的水中。
And I drink that basically first thing in the morning.
我基本上早上第一件事就是喝它。
I also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and therefore losing a lot of water and electrolytes.
我还会在进行任何体育锻炼时饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT，尤其是在炎热的天气里，因为我会大量出汗，从而失去大量的水和电解质。
They have a bunch of different great tasting flavors of LMNT.
他们有多种不同口味的 LMNT。
They have watermelon, citrus, etc. Frankly, I love them all.
他们有西瓜、柑橘等，坦白说，我都喜欢。
And now that we're in the winter months in the Northern Hemisphere, LMNT has their Chocolate Medley flavors back in stock.
现在正值北半球的冬季，LMNT 的巧克力混合口味又重新有货了。
I really like the chocolate flavors, especially the chocolate mint when it's heated up.
我真的很喜欢巧克力的味道，尤其是加热后的巧克力薄荷味。
So you put it in hot water and that's a great way to replenish electrolytes and hydrate, especially when it's cold and dry outside when hydration is especially critical.
因此，您将其放入热水中，这是补充电解质和水分的好方法，尤其是当室外寒冷干燥时，水分补充尤为重要。
If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/hubermanlab to claim a free LMNT sample pack with the purchase of any LMNT drink mix.
如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/hubermanlab，购买任何 LMNT 混合饮料即可领取免费 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/hubermanlab to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/hubermanlab 索取免费样品包。
As long as we're talking about posture, it feels like a good transition point to pelvic floor.
只要我们谈论姿势，感觉就像是到骨盆底的一个很好的过渡点。
Years ago.
几年前。
And this is a plug for the material that you put out online and in books.
这是您在网上和书中发布的材料的插件。
But long before we met, I decided to sign up for your men's pelvic floor--
但早在我们见面之前，我就决定报名参加你们的男士盆底运动——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --oh yeah--
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——哦，是的——
Andrew Huberman: --course--
安德鲁·休伯曼：——当然——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --outsold our woman's pelvic floor course, two to one.
凯利·斯塔雷特 (Kelly Starrett) 博士：——销量超过了我们的女性盆底课程，二比一。
Andrew Huberman: It was so interesting because, you know, at that time one could go online and learn a little bit about pelvic floor.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：这很有趣，因为，你知道，那时人们可以上网了解一点关于盆底的知识。
Everyone.
每个人。
And we talked about this with a couple different guests on this podcast, including the Director of Male Sexual Health.
我们在这个播客上与几位不同的嘉宾讨论了这个问题，其中包括男性性健康总监。
He's an M.D., Ph.D., or at least an M.D., as I recall.
我记得他是医学博士、博士，或者至少是医学博士。
Mike Eisenberg at Stanford.
斯坦福大学的迈克·艾森伯格。
We've talked about this with Mary Claire Haver and other people in the female health domain.
我们与玛丽·克莱尔·哈弗和女性健康领域的其他人士讨论了这个问题。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I'm glad we're normalizing this conversation.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我很高兴我们使这次对话正常化。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, we normalize this conversation.
Andrew Huberman：是的，我们使这次对话正常化。
You know that the pelvic floor is rich with vasculature for blood flow and neural input for controlling muscles either passively or actively.
您知道，盆底富含用于血流的脉管系统和用于被动或主动控制肌肉的神经输入。
And I'll tell you the number of people I know who have urinary issues, sexual dysfunction issues.
我会告诉你我认识的有多少人患有泌尿问题、性功能障碍问题。
I know because they tell me that they squat heavy in the gym, they do their Kegels and things like that.
我知道，因为他们告诉我，他们在健身房深蹲，做凯格尔运动之类的事情。
Then I've had guests on, like Mike Eisenberg and others, and they say, yeah, actually, if you have a tight pelvic floor, doing Kegels is about the worst thing you could ever do for urinary function or erection function.
然后我邀请了一些嘉宾，比如迈克·艾森伯格和其他人，他们说，是的，实际上，如果你的骨盆底很紧，那么做凯格尔运动对于泌尿功能或勃起功能来说是最糟糕的事情。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's right.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：没错。
Andrew Huberman: You know, because you're sending in the wrong direction.
Andrew Huberman：你知道，因为你发错了方向。
You need to learn to relax your pelvic floor.
您需要学会放松骨盆底。
Then some women will say, and it seems to be women that report this.
然后有女性会说，好像是女性举报的。
Whether or not men just have this but don't report it I don't know.
我不知道男性是否有这种症状但不报告。
I've had people write to me and say, yeah, you know, I'll do some lower body work in the gym and some urine is sneaking out.
有人写信给我说，是的，你知道，我会在健身房做一些下半身训练，一些尿液会偷偷溜出来。
And it's like, well, pelvic floor.
这就像盆底肌。
And you had this great course on pelvic floor that taught me, among other things, and I will say I wasn't suffering any of those particular issues, but I had prostate pain in my 30s and I was like, what's going on?
你上了一门关于骨盆底的很棒的课程，它教会了我，除其他外，我会说我没有遭受任何这些特殊问题，但我在 30 多岁时患有前列腺疼痛，我想，这是怎么回事？
Went and got my PSA measured.
去测量了我的 PSA。
Perfectly normal.
完全正常。
Thought, what's going on?
心想，这是怎么回事？
Started researching online, read your work, and realized, oh, I think I might just have tight pelvic floor.
开始在网上研究，阅读你的作品，然后意识到，哦，我想我可能只是骨盆底紧张。
Started doing certain things, including you taught me how to sit down and stand up correctly in this video.
开始做某些事情，包括你在这个视频中教我如何正确坐下和站起来。
It's like you have to keep your sternum high.
就像你必须保持胸骨高。
I think you said it was like a stately--
我想你说过这就像一个庄严的——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Let me just...
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：让我……
there's no wrong way or right way to stand up or sit down everyone.
每个人站起来或坐下的方式没有错误或正确之分。
But there are ways that reflect increased function, especially when you're in a dysfunctional state.
但有一些方法可以反映功能的增强，尤其是当您处于功能障碍状态时。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, right.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，没错。
I don't want to...
我不想...
we're not trying to — yet — tell people what to do or not to do, but it was like, wow, you know, I'm probably hunched over too much.
我们还没有试图告诉人们该做什么或不该做什么，但感觉就像是，哇，你知道，我可能弯腰驼背太多了。
I think my hips are back too far when I'm sitting.
我认为当我坐着的时候我的臀部向后靠得太远了。
And maybe I'll move to a standing desk or a sit-stand desk, which is what I did.
也许我会换成站立式办公桌或坐站式办公桌，这就是我所做的。
Lo and behold, prostate pain goes away.
你瞧，前列腺疼痛消失了。
You know, and had I not found that course, I might have gone down the path of medication or something else.
你知道，如果我没有找到那门课程，我可能会走上药物治疗或其他方法的道路。
Took care of everything.
照顾好一切。
I also, I will say the other thing I learned was I had, I tend to have, a slight anterior pelvic tilt.
我还要说，我学到的另一件事是我有，我倾向于有，轻微的骨盆前倾。
So thinking about the pelvis, like a bowl, as I understand, like, if that bowl could be, you know, the ridge of that bowl could be parallel to the ground or tilted forward.
因此，想想骨盆，就像一个碗，据我所知，如果那个碗可以，你知道，那个碗的脊可以平行于地面或向前倾斜。
Anterior pelvic tilt or back, you know, posterior pelvic tilt.
骨盆前倾或骨盆后倾。
Neutral seems like a good idea.
中立似乎是个好主意。
But most people tend to have, you know, some natural propensity towards one or the other.
但你知道，大多数人往往对其中一种有某种自然倾向。
Started wearing, I pretty much always wore flat shoes, Adidas or, you know, skateboard shoes are pretty flat.
开始穿的时候，我几乎总是穿平底鞋，阿迪达斯或者你知道的滑板鞋都很平。
I lucked out there.
我在那里很幸运。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Shoe game is strong today.
Kelly Starrett 博士：今天鞋类比赛很激烈。
Andrew Huberman: The shoe game is strong today.
Andrew Huberman：今天的鞋类比赛很激烈。
Adidas.
阿迪达斯。
Still wear them every day.
仍然每天穿着它们。
I love them.
我爱他们。
Or no shoes.
或者没穿鞋。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的。
Andrew Huberman: You know, which is great.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你知道，这很棒。
And I noticed, okay, that corrected some of that prostate pain too, by making.
我注意到，好吧，通过做也可以纠正一些前列腺疼痛。
Oh, excuse me, what helped correct it was to make sure that in the gym, I did something that turned out to be glute ham raises that would take my pelvis through a fairly full range of motion from, you know, posterior to anterior tilt.
哦，对不起，帮助纠正这个问题的是为了确保在健身房里，我做了一些后来证明是臀腿抬高的事情，这将使我的骨盆进行相当全面的运动，从后倾斜到前倾斜。
And I've come to love the glute ham raise.
我开始喜欢上臀腿火腿了。
We're talking full range glute ham raises as one of the most useful tools just posturally for pelvic floor.
我们所说的全方位臀腿抬高是对骨盆底姿势最有用的工具之一。
So not like it's for huge hamstrings--
所以不像是为了巨大的腿筋——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --beautiful for stiffness in the system.
Kelly Starrett 博士：——系统的刚性非常好。
Resetting, high neurologic component to actually do the thing.
重置、高神经系统成分以实际执行该操作。
One of the things I hinted at earlier is like, I've chased biomodal output, right?
我之前暗示过的一件事是，我一直在追求生物模态输出，对吧？
Intra-abdominal pressure and being able to have a pelvic floor that works for you is part of that system.
腹内压力和能够拥有适合您的骨盆底是该系统的一部分。
Like, again, we can take the physiology and goose it up and down.
再说一遍，我们可以根据生理学来调整它。
What's interesting about...
有什么有趣的...
I had a famous friend who was filming a TV show and we were working on his internal rotation of his hip.
我有一个著名的朋友正在拍摄电视节目，我们正在训练他的臀部内旋。
So if you're....
所以如果你是......
you imagine someone on your back and I bring your knee to your chest and I swing your foot away from your midline, right?
你想象有人躺在你的背上，我把你的膝盖放在你的胸部，然后我将你的脚摆离你的中线，对吧？
The femur rolls in.
股骨滚动。
That's internal rotation of the femur for everyone.
这就是每个人的股骨内旋。
And I worked on his internal rotation of his femur and just improved his hip flexion, knee to chest.
我锻炼了他的股骨内旋，并改善了他的髋部屈曲，从膝盖到胸部。
Just got those things going.
刚刚把这些事情搞定了。
I get this text that night, and he's like, bro, what is up with my boners?
那天晚上我收到了这条短信，他说，兄弟，我的骨头怎么了？
They're out of control.
他们失控了。
What is going on?
到底是怎么回事？
Andrew Huberman: Out of control in the positive direction, okay.
Andrew Huberman：在积极的方向上失去控制，好吧。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And I was like, well, there's this thing called blood.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我当时想，嗯，有一种东西叫做血液。
Blood flow.
血流（量。
And when we improve blood flow, turns out reperfusion is on the list of things that we chase.
当我们改善血流时，再灌注就出现在我们追求的目标清单上。
Andrew Huberman: So he had been crimping the hose, so to speak, stiff, right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以他一直在压紧软管，可以说是僵硬的，对吧？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And I think when we start to see that endopelvic fascia as a system, it's so easy for us to be reductionist.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我认为，当我们开始将骨盆内筋膜视为一个系统时，我们很容易变得还原论。
Like, I wouldn't even say you had prostate pain.
就像，我什至不会说你有前列腺疼痛。
I would say you had pain in your prostate area.
我想说你的前列腺区域疼痛。
Andrew Huberman: Right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：对吗？
And in fact, that's what was told, the prostate region, right.
事实上，这就是所说的，前列腺区域，对吧。
And because PSA--
因为 PSA——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --so you're like, I don't know where my prostate is.
凯利·斯塔雷特医生：——所以你会说，我不知道我的前列腺在哪里。
Okay?
好的？
Andrew Huberman: That's a general sense.
Andrew Huberman：这是一般意义上的。
And I.
还有我。
I also saw the PSA level was well within normal, actually low range.
我还发现 PSA 水平完全在正常范围内，实际上很低。
And I was like, what in the world is going on here?
我当时想，这里到底发生了什么事？
And you start, you know, you can find some pretty scary stuff online about.
然后你开始，你知道，你可以在网上找到一些非常可怕的东西。
About spinal cord injuries and this kind of thing.
关于脊髓损伤之类的事情。
Did what we just talked about, and boom, it's never been an issue again.
做了我们刚才谈到的事情，然后繁荣，这再也不是问题了。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: We have all the Olympic lifting gyms, even our gym, we kept a towel on the platforms so that women particularly would pee themselves when they would receive a heavy, clean, heavy snatch.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我们有所有的奥运会举重馆，甚至我们的健身房，我们在平台上放了一条毛巾，这样女性在接受沉重、干净、沉重的抓举时尤其会撒尿。
And we would just wipe it up.
我们会把它擦掉。
Andrew Huberman: They'd actually urinate on the platform.
安德鲁·休伯曼：他们实际上会在站台上小便。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Oh, yeah, that happens all the time, all over the Olympics, everywhere.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：哦，是的，这种情况一直在发生，在整个奥运会上，在任何地方。
You'll see that, that is, bladder incontinence is not normal.
你会发现，膀胱失禁是不正常的。
Totally normal to poop yourself before a fight.
打架前拉屎是很正常的。
That's what animals do.
这就是动物所做的。
Totally not normal to pee yourself.
自己尿尿完全不正常。
Peeing yourself is a sign of dysregulation for sure.
自己小便肯定是调节失调的表现。
So what, as you're seeing is, though, hey, I can't manage this high intra-abdominal pressure I'm creating.
所以，正如你所看到的，嘿，我无法控制我所产生的高腹内压力。
And what ends up happening is we pee ourselves.
最终发生的事情是我们自己撒尿。
So we can start by saying, well, are there positions and shapes?
所以我们可以首先说，有位置和形状吗？
Theoretically, I want your pelvic floor to work in all the shapes.
理论上，我希望你的骨盆底能适应所有形状。
Its maximum.
其最大值。
And there'll be some shapes where it just doesn't work as effectively.
而且有些形状的效果并不那么有效。
And if you're a man, so we're getting into it, if you go pee, you'll see a lot of men will put their hand on the wall and they'll adopt an anterior pelvic tilt to pee.
如果你是一个男人，那么我们就进入这个话题，如果你去撒尿，你会看到很多男人会把手放在墙上，他们会采用骨盆前倾的方式撒尿。
And what they'll do is basically just turn the pelvic floor off.
他们要做的基本上就是关闭骨盆底。
And so if you stand up and do a big anterior pelvic tilt, your pelvic floor will lose some of its tone, and it's easier to initiate.
因此，如果您站起来并进行大幅度的骨盆前倾，您的骨盆底就会失去一些张力，并且更容易开始。
Andrew Huberman: So anterior pelvic tilt again, folks, is.
安德鲁·休伯曼：伙计们，骨盆再次前倾。
Imagine your pelvis is a bowl.
想象你的骨盆是一个碗。
You're tilting it forward like you're going to pour water out of the bowl, which is a fair analogy here.
你将它向前倾斜，就像你要把水从碗里倒出来一样，这是一个很好的类比。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's right.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：没错。
Andrew Huberman: You're saying, ideally, they keep a neutral pelvis and use the force of their muscles controlling their bones.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你是说，理想情况下，他们保持骨盆中立，并利用肌肉的力量控制骨骼。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: No, I'm saying that it's much more difficult to pee in this position where we have high control over these systems.
Kelly Starrett 博士：不，我是说，在我们对这些系统有高度控制的位置上撒尿要困难得多。
And what you'll see is that most people will adopt a shape where they basically inhibit their pelvic floor so they can pee standing up.
你会看到，大多数人都会采取一种基本上抑制骨盆底的形状，这样他们就可以站着小便。
Andrew Huberman: I can't believe we're gonna dissect urine posture, urinating posture.
Andrew Huberman：我不敢相信我们要剖析排尿姿势，排尿姿势。
But I think it's really important.
但我认为这真的很重要。
Let's contrast that to the famous sculpture of the boy peeing.
让我们将其与著名的男孩撒尿雕塑进行对比。
And he's like leaning back.
他就像向后靠。
Leaning back.
向后倾斜。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Same posture.
Kelly Starrett 博士：同样的姿势。
His pelvis is forward and he's leaning back.
他的骨盆向前倾斜，身体向后倾斜。
That's the same posture.
就是这个姿势。
Andrew Huberman: So same.
安德鲁·休伯曼：同样。
Or people with sons will know this.
或者有儿子的人会知道这一点。
Right?
正确的？
So you know, when you're a young kid, young boy, you can like, it almost feels like you can pee over a car if you had to.
所以你知道，当你还是个小孩子的时候，你会喜欢，如果有必要，你几乎可以在车上撒尿。
Maybe I tried that.
也许我尝试过。
I'm just saying it was a Volkswagen, right?
我只是说这是一辆大众汽车，对吗？
So is there a proper posture for people?
那么人有没有正确的姿势呢？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: No, no, no. But initiating a stream, maintaining a stream is like, that's a sign of sexual health, of functional health as your general health.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：不，不，不。但是启动流、维持流就像是性健康、功能健康和整体健康的标志。
And what's nice now is notice how we got to this very nuanced conversation about erectile dysfunction, about bladder insufficiency, about peeing ourselves.
现在最好的是注意我们是如何进行关于勃起功能障碍、膀胱功能不全和自己撒尿的非常微妙的对话。
We got there through performance, by...
我们通过表现达到了这一点，通过...
we'll have athletes who literally had a whole bunch of babies suddenly have a difficult time creating high intra-abdominal tone, will jump rope.
我们会有很多生了一大堆婴儿的运动员突然很难产生高腹腔张力，他们会跳绳。
And as soon as NP and as soon as they come back to a more organized position that allows them to transfer energy more effectively, recruit better musculature, have better organization.
一旦 NP，一旦他们回到更有组织的位置，使他们能够更有效地转移能量，招募更好的肌肉组织，拥有更好的组织。
Organization.
组织。
Peeing stops.
撒尿停止了。
So what we suddenly--
那么我们突然——
Andrew Huberman: --Female athletes?
安德鲁·休伯曼：——女运动员？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Our women athletes.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我们的女运动员。
Andrew Huberman: So you recommend that they jump rope?
Andrew Huberman：所以你建议他们跳绳？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Well, yeah, absolutely.
Kelly Starrett 博士：嗯，是的，绝对如此。
Eventually I need to challenge that floor.
最终我需要挑战那个楼层。
That's an easy way to do it.
这是一个简单的方法。
But what we see is can you squeeze your butt and jump at the same time?
但我们看到的是，你能同时挤压屁股并跳跃吗？
And what you'll find is that a lot of people, as soon as they adopt this into your pelvic tilt, glute goes off.
你会发现，很多人一旦将这种方法应用到骨盆倾斜中，臀肌就会消失。
And they don't have that glute control.
而且他们没有臀部控制能力。
So that can be problematic for a whole host of features.
因此这对于很多功能来说可能都是有问题的。
So imagine, I was hoping we were going to get to hip extension eventually.
所以想象一下，我希望我们最终能够达到髋部伸展。
But you know what we see is that stiffness in the front of the quads, anterior line of the fascia, stiff front of capsule.
但你知道我们看到的是股四头肌前部、筋膜前线、囊前部僵硬。
Whatever the mechanism is, we do a lot of sitting.
无论机制是什么，我们都会经常坐着。
We're just, we're squatters.
我们只是，我们是占屋者。
My inability to take my knee behind my hip.
我无法将膝盖放在臀部后面。
We call this knees behind butt.
我们称之为膝盖后面的屁股。
Knees behind butt guy, that's what I want to be known as, knee goes behind your butt like you're in a lunge.
膝盖在屁股后面，这就是我想要的名字，膝盖在你的屁股后面，就像你在弓步一样。
That's right.
这是正确的。
Sorry, Ben Patrick.
对不起，本·帕特里克。
And then what we're going to.
然后我们要做的就是。
You're going to see is a lot of times when we put people in those positions, they can't get a good glute squeeze.
你会看到很多时候当我们把人们放在这些位置上时，他们无法得到很好的臀部挤压。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
Could one practice this?
可以练习这个吗？
I'm thinking it's been a while since I've taken a yoga class--
我想我已经有一段时间没有上瑜伽课了——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Sure, if you stood up right now and squeeze your butt.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：当然，如果你现在站起来并挤压你的屁股。
You would be like, yeah, I can practice this.
你会说，是的，我可以练习这个。
Andrew Huberman: Okay, so there's a pose in yoga, and I'm not an advanced yogi, but I've taken a few yoga classes in my day where you're on your...
安德鲁·休伯曼：好吧，瑜伽中有一个姿势，我不是高级瑜伽士，但我在我的日子里参加了一些瑜伽课程，你在……
you're basically propped up, sitting on your knees.
你基本上是被支撑着，坐在膝盖上。
So it's sort of like in the camera, high kneeling and then.
所以这有点像在镜头里，高跪着，然后。
Yeah, high kneeling and then hard to--
是的，高跪，然后很难——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --squeeze your butt there, isn't it?
Kelly Starrett 博士：——挤压你的屁股，不是吗？
Andrew Huberman: It's hard to squeeze your butt there.
Andrew Huberman：很难挤压那里的屁股。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And then because of all the forces yanking you into, anteriorly, those fascia lines, the quads, you're basically in that high kneeling position.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：然后，由于所有的力量将您拉向前方的筋膜线、股四头肌，您基本上处于高跪姿。
And because the lower leg is bent behind you, you're being dragged forward.
因为小腿在你身后弯曲，所以你被向前拖着。
And it's difficult to squeeze your butt and extend over backwards.
而且很难挤压你的臀部并向后伸展。
Andrew Huberman: So there's that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：就是这样。
Do they call it camel pose where you reach back and grab your heels and you're supposed to look up at the ceiling.
他们称之为“骆驼式”吗？在这种姿势中，你向后伸手抓住脚后跟，然后抬头看着天花板。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's a gnarly one.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：那是一个粗糙的问题。
Andrew Huberman: It's a gnarly one.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这是一个粗糙的问题。
If you do it in the Bay Area, the T-shirt will say, don't be surprised if some emotions come up.
如果你在湾区这样做，T 恤上会说，如果出现一些情绪，请不要感到惊讶。
No, if you do this in Austin, Texas, they just say it's supposed to hurt.
不，如果你在德克萨斯州奥斯汀这样做，他们只是说这应该会受伤。
Keep going.
继续前进。
I'm just joking here.
我只是在这里开玩笑。
This is like regional humor.
这就像地域性的幽默。
But in any event, I think that's actually accurate, by the way.
但无论如何，顺便说一句，我认为这实际上是准确的。
But in any event, it's.
但无论如何，它是。
It is slightly unusual for most people who aren't accustomed to it to do that pose again, doing that pose, I bring it up for a reason.
对于大多数不习惯的人来说，再次做那个姿势有点不寻常，做那个姿势，我提出它是有原因的。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And if you don't do that pose, you might do Kipping pull-ups.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：如果你不做这个姿势，你可能会做基平引体向上。
That's a global extension position that all we're doing is taking the spine and putting a huge global load in it instead of a localized load.
这是一个全局伸展位置，我们所做的就是抓住脊柱并在其中施加巨大的全局负载而不是局部负载。
So an anterior pelvic tilt.
所以骨盆前倾。
We might think of localized extension inflection where I have one or two segments doing the lion's share.
我们可能会想到局部扩展变形，其中我有一个或两个片段发挥了最大的作用。
We, whenever we can, prefer to have global flexion extension because the spine maintains its integrity a little more effectively.
只要有可能，我们更喜欢进行整体屈曲伸展，因为脊柱可以更有效地保持其完整性。
Andrew Huberman: So doing things like wheel pose.
Andrew Huberman：所以做一些像车轮姿势这样的事情。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Awesome.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：太棒了。
Andrew Huberman: Putting your hands up near your ears, pushing it.
Andrew Huberman：将双手放在耳朵附近，推动它。
Feet flat on the ground, pushing up into a, you know, an arc.
双脚平放在地上，向上推成弧形。
Arc shape on the ground.
地面呈弧形。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Great diagnostics.
Kelly Starrett 博士：很棒的诊断。
Andrew Huberman: This should be.
安德鲁·休伯曼：应该是这样。
Is this something that most people should be able to do?
这是大多数人都应该能够做到的事情吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yes.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的。
Can most people probably do it?
大概大多数人都能做到吧？
No. Can we then break down the components of it?
不，我们可以分解它的组成部分吗？
Yeah, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Even the Iyengar yogi master started to bring in props, blocks and belts because he was seeing that his students weren't able to achieve some of the base shapes.
甚至艾扬格瑜伽大师也开始引入道具、瑜伽块和腰带，因为他发现他的学生无法实现某些基本形状。
And what they were doing was human Jenga to get into those patterns.
他们所做的就是人类叠叠乐来进入这些模式。
They were just solving the problem.
他们只是在解决问题。
And he was like, hold up.
他说，等等。
Let's not go around the problem.
我们不要回避这个问题。
Let's support you while we load you and breathe in these.
让我们在为您提供负荷并呼吸这些的同时支持您。
These positions and shapes.
这些位置和形状。
Andrew Huberman: Given that most people don't have a ton of time for movement, designated blocks of time for movement, if one were going to do, let's say, some attempt toward wheel pose practice or camel pose practice, or any number of the other things that we're talking about here, which are taking the body into positions that it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：考虑到大多数人没有大量的时间进行运动，没有指定的运动时间段，如果一个人要做一些尝试，比如轮式练习或骆驼式练习，或者我们在这里讨论的任何其他事情，这些事情会将身体带到它的位置。
That we're not naturally putting it into, given our activities.
鉴于我们的活动，我们不会自然地将其投入其中。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah, great way to otherwise nail that.
Kelly Starrett 博士：是的，这是解决这个问题的好方法。
Andrew Huberman: Um, would you suggest doing these at the end of a resistance training workout?
Andrew Huberman：嗯，你会建议在阻力训练结束时做这些吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: When does it work for you?
Kelly Starrett 博士：它什么时候对你有效？
At some point, you need to be exposed in this position.
在某些时候，你需要暴露在这个位置上。
When are you gonna get exposed to this position?
你什么时候能接触到这个职位？
If it happens to be able to be clumped in with your training, fantastic.
如果它恰好能够与您的训练结合在一起，那就太棒了。
If it's at home in the evening, fantastic.
如果晚上在家，那就太棒了。
If you have, you've done sun salutation before, it's old school, right?
如果你做过，那么你以前做过拜日式，这已经很老套了，对吧？
It's almost like they were like, let's get this system going a little bit so later on in the day it's a little bit easier.
他们几乎就像是，让我们稍微启动一下这个系统，这样当天晚些时候就会变得容易一些。
So at some point, we need to expose you to some positions.
因此，在某些时候，我们需要向您展示一些职位。
We have something called the hip spin up.
我们有一种叫做髋部旋转的东西。
And typically for my athletic populations, my teams especially, I'm like, hey, I want you to do one of three things in the morning.
通常对于我的运动员群体，尤其是我的团队，我会说，嘿，我希望你早上做三件事之一。
Got 10 minutes?
有10分钟吗？
That's all I'm asking.
这就是我要问的。
Eight to 10 minutes.
八到十分钟。
Hip spin up, shoulder spin up, or breath spin up.
臀部向上旋转、肩部向上旋转或呼吸向上旋转。
Just.
只是。
Just do one of those.
只需做其中之一即可。
If your back hurts or knee hurts, you get hip spin up.
如果你的背部受伤或膝盖受伤，你的臀部就会向上旋转。
If your shoulder or neck hurts, you get shoulder spin up.
如果你的肩膀或颈部受伤，你的肩膀就会上旋。
And then if not, just cycle through those.
如果没有，就循环浏览这些。
So at least in the morning, we're starting to touch some of these crucial shapes that you're never, ever in.
所以至少在早上，我们开始接触一些你从未接触过的重要形状。
And if you do the hip spin up and suffer, I'm like, well, that's telling me about your movement history, your injury history, your movement diet.
如果你的髋部旋转起来并感到痛苦，我会想，好吧，这告诉我你的运动历史、你的受伤历史、你的运动饮食。
And again, nothing that we do on The Ready State is related to supernatural levels of range of motion.
再说一次，我们在“准备状态”中所做的一切都与超自然的运动范围水平无关。
Just basic range of motion, the range of motion, again, that everyone learns in med school, everyone learns in physical therapy school.
只是基本的运动范围，每个人在医学院学习的运动范围，每个人在物理治疗学校学习的运动范围。
So what's fun about what you've said around this sort of this pelvic floor health piece is that when we get people doing some mobilization, really brought to me, really brought my attention to Jill Miller, is that we start mobilizing the endopelvic fascia, we just land a ball just anywhere from your pubic bone to your diaphragm process, but particularly belly button south, you'll see that none of that should be uncomfortable.
所以你在骨盆底健康文章中所说的有趣之处在于，当我们让人们做一些动员时，真正让我注意到，真正引起我对吉尔·米勒的注意的是，我们开始动员内骨盆筋膜，我们只需将一个球放在从耻骨到膈肌过程的任何地方，特别是肚脐南边，你会发现这些都不应该感到不舒服。
And one of the reasons we see high incidence of pelvic floor dysfunction, but also high incidence of sports hernias, is that we have a hip that doesn't work very well and ends up dragging that pelvis into positions where it's not muscularly very strong, right?
我们看到盆底功能障碍高发以及运动疝气高发的原因之一是我们的臀部不能很好地工作，最终将骨盆拖到肌肉不太强壮的位置，对吗？
I can get out of position where I have a lot of good sort of activation or access to those positions.
当我有很多良好的激活或访问这些位置的机会时，我可以摆脱位置。
Then I have fascia and musculature.
然后我有筋膜和肌肉组织。
That's super stiff.
真是超级硬啊
Because every time you do abs, you celebrate the stiffness, right?
因为每次你练腹肌时，你都会庆祝僵硬，对吧？
You do abs, you're like, oh, I'm sore today.
当你练腹肌时，你会说，哦，我今天很酸痛。
I'm gonna go have some ice cream.
我要去吃点冰淇淋。
When's the last time you managed your hamstrings, your quads?
你最后一次锻炼你的腿筋和股四头肌是什么时候？
Probably yesterday.
大概是昨天。
When's the last time you rolled out your abs and your obliques?
你最后一次伸展腹肌和腹斜肌是什么时候？
Never.
绝不。
Andrew Huberman: Previous life, right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：前世，对吧？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Previous life, before you respond, so I think one of the things that we're seeing is, again, that'd be a perfect time to do in the evening.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：前世，在你回应之前，所以我认为我们看到的一件事是，这将是晚上做的最佳时间。
Don't go to the gym and lay on the kettlebell and be a creepy guy.
不要去健身房躺在壶铃上做一个令人毛骨悚然的家伙。
Instead, pull out that volleyball at home, pull that princess ball you got at Walgreens, and start having a conversation with your pelvic floor.
相反，拿出家里的排球，拿出你在沃尔格林买的公主球，开始与你的盆底对话。
Turns out, you know, your abdomen, the pelvic floor can also be mobilized.
事实证明，你知道，你的腹部、骨盆底也可以被调动起来。
So we just...
所以我们只是...
it's really simple.
这真的很简单。
Front of your pelvis is your pubic bone.
骨盆前面是耻骨。
That's the front of the pelvic floor.
那是骨盆底的前部。
The back is your coccyx.
后面是你的尾骨。
And each ischial tuberosity, your sit bones, is the side.
每个坐骨结节，即你的坐骨，都是侧面。
Everything else is your pelvic floor.
其他一切都是你的骨盆底。
So you can take a ball and just stay away from the holes.
因此，您可以拿着球并远离球洞。
And if anything hurts to compression, you found a problem.
如果有任何东西对压缩造成损害，那么您就发现了问题。
So you can contract and relax and apply that same tissue.
因此，您可以收缩和放松并使用相同的纸巾。
Andrew Huberman: So I might be on my side.
Andrew Huberman：所以我可能站在我这边。
I might be rolling with the ball right underneath me.
我可能会带着球在我下面滚动。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: You would just be sitting down on your coffee table and just putting that, sitting that ball in and around your pelvis and around your glutes and around your pelvic floor, right?
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：您只需坐在咖啡桌上，然后将球放在骨盆内和骨盆周围、臀部周围和骨盆底周围，对吧？
You might be dangerously close to your grundle.
你可能已经危险地接近你的底线了。
You're welcome.
不客气。
So the idea here, though, is, you know, oftentimes when we'll have athletes with back pain, we're not looking at the pelvic floor or hip pain.
所以这里的想法是，你知道，通常当我们有背痛的运动员时，我们不会关注骨盆底或臀部疼痛。
But you have six short hip rotators, right?
但你有六个短髋旋转器，对吧？
You don't just have a couple rotators.
你不只是有几个旋转器。
You have a huge rotator cuff of the hip.
你的臀部有一个巨大的肩袖。
And some of those things are congruent and kind of part of that pelvic floor.
其中一些东西是一致的，并且是盆底的一部分。
So it's not that I need to go after my pelvic floor every day because again, let me just add another thing to your list.
所以我不需要每天都照顾我的骨盆底，因为再次让我在你的清单中添加另一件事。
But if something changes, I suddenly wake up and I don't have an erection.
但如果有什么变化，我会突然醒来，却无法勃起。
I suddenly am discovering that I'm peeing myself because I'm an elite cyclist.
我突然发现我在撒尿，因为我是一名优秀的自行车手。
And something's happening that I'm like, oh, I know what to do here.
发生了一些事情，我就像，哦，我知道在这里做什么。
Let me start to work on my belly.
让我开始锻炼我的腹部吧。
Let me see if I can work on restoring my positions and can I do a little pelvic floor mobilization?
让我看看我是否可以恢复体位，是否可以做一点骨盆底活动？
And that's a great place to start.
这是一个很好的起点。
And which doctor was involved?
哪位医生参与其中？
None.
没有任何。
Which pelvic floor therapist was involved?
哪位盆底治疗师参与其中？
None.
没有任何。
In fact, if you carry that to your, your, your specialist, they're going to be like, all right, we get to have the real conversation now because you've already done the other stuff.
事实上，如果你把它带给你的、你的、你的专家，他们会说，好吧，我们现在可以进行真正的对话，因为你已经做了其他的事情。
Andrew Huberman: One thing that frightens me and maybe unnecessarily so is when I see men in particular doing crunch work, like ab work, crunching with ankles crossed.
安德鲁·休伯曼：一件让我感到害怕的事情，也许是不必要的，是当我看到男人特别做卷腹运动时，比如腹肌训练，脚踝交叉地卷腹。
A, because people tend to cross the same ankle over the other one.
A，因为人们倾向于将同一个脚踝交叉在另一个脚踝上。
They don't, they don't symmetrically switch sides.
他们不，他们不对称地换边。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's not good, bro.
Kelly Starrett 博士：这不好，兄弟。
Andrew Huberman: And my other understanding is that this can also lead to some pelvic floor issues and asymmetries.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我的另一个理解是，这也会导致一些盆底问题和不对称。
Simple solution could be to not cross the ankles while doing like repeated contraction work of the abdominal.
简单的解决方案可能是在重复腹部收缩时不要交叉脚踝。
Am I being silly?
我是不是很傻？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I would put that lower on the list of problems I have.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我会把这个放在我遇到的问题列表中较低的位置。
Like I think if we went into the world right now and looked at people doing curls, you know, curl ups.
就像我想的那样，如果我们现在走进这个世界，看看人们做卷发，你知道，卷发。
The real thing is, is that your only way that you're training the abdominals, you know, am I, do I have a bigger range of motion of the trunk?
真正的问题是，这是你训练腹部的唯一方法，你知道，我的躯干活动范围是否更大？
There are so many ways to be thinking about what the trunk should be doing and reducing it down to this one curl.
有很多方法可以思考树干应该做什么，并将其简化为这一卷曲。
I think, if one of the things that we're looking at like I'd much rather you hang from a bar and curl up.
我想，如果我们正在关注的事情之一像我一样，我宁愿你挂在酒吧上并蜷缩起来。
Andrew Huberman: Yep.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
So this is pretty much, I won't say the only ab work I do, I do some antirotation work by staggering my stance when I do curls or anything else.
所以这几乎是，我不会说我做的唯一的腹肌训练，当我做弯举或其他任何事情时，我通过错开我的姿势来进行一些抗旋转训练。
'Cause it's a very time efficient way to do it.
因为这是一种非常节省时间的方法。
Making sure my belly button is staying straight.
确保我的肚脐保持笔直。
So you're resisting the temptation to rock from side to side and get the antirotation work.
因此，您要抵制左右摇摆的诱惑并获得防旋转作用。
Obviously switching up the stance but doing what you describe, hanging from a bar doing pikes.
显然改变了姿势，但按照你所描述的那样做，挂在酒吧上做长矛。
To me, you're also getting grip work just for time, efficiency.
对我来说，你也只是为了时间和效率而进行抓地力工作。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: You're also not just separating the abs and working with the abdominals, with the knee to the chest.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：你也不只是分离腹肌并锻炼腹肌，让膝盖靠近胸部。
Because that's really what we're seeing is that do you only need your abs working in this position?
因为我们真正看到的是，你只需要你的腹肌在这个位置上工作吗？
So basically you're reproducing another seated position, except you're crunching your chest to your seated knee.
所以基本上你正在复制另一个坐姿，除了你将胸部压到坐姿的膝盖上。
And that's really what that position is.
这就是这个职位的真正含义。
Do we do it long?
我们做的时间长吗？
What happens if you went long lever?
如果你做多杠杆会发生什么？
Short lever means the elbow is bent.
短杠杆意味着肘部弯曲。
Long lever is the elbow straight.
长杠杆是肘部伸直。
Short lever is the knee is bent.
短杠杆是膝盖弯曲。
Long lever is the leg is straight.
长杠杆就是腿伸直。
So why aren't we working in all those patterns and positions and then being creative?
那么，我们为什么不按照所有这些模式和立场工作，然后发挥创造力呢？
There are so many great resources.
有很多很棒的资源。
The kids at...
孩子们在...
Dave Durante has a free ab workout.
戴夫·杜兰特 (Dave Durante) 有免费的腹部锻炼。
He's an Olympic gymnast from Stanford.
他是斯坦福大学的奥林匹克体操运动员。
Superstar.
超级巨星。
But you can go on to, I think it's Iron Monkey.
但你可以继续说，我认为是铁猴子。
Sorry, guys.
抱歉，伙计们。
And what you'll see is there's so much fun way to play and think about what the role of the trunk should do.
您将看到有很多有趣的方式来玩耍并思考行李箱的角色应该做什么。
And I think we're moving beyond, thank goodness, this, like, I have to be a rigid robot all the time.
我认为我们正在超越，谢天谢地，这，就像，我必须一直是一个僵化的机器人。
And that we need to ask, what is the trunk supposed to do?
我们需要问，后备箱应该做什么？
A good way of thinking about this, and I think your sit up is a good analogy.
这是一个很好的思考方式，我认为你的仰卧起坐是一个很好的类比。
Really.
真的。
A book that makes the rounds from time to time is a book called "The Spinal Engine," by Serge Gracovetsky.
谢尔盖·格拉科维茨基（Serge Gracovetsky）所著的《脊髓引擎》（The Spinal Engine）这本书时不时地流传开来。
And he really talks about the trunk as a driver of power, not just as a chassis off of which the big engine moves.
他确实将后备箱视为动力驱动器，而不仅仅是作为大型发动机移动的底盘。
And that really is a nice conceptual way of simplifying movement.
这确实是简化运动的一种很好的概念方式。
But if we define functional movement, most people agree it works in a wave of contraction from trunk to periphery, from core to sleeve, from axillary skeleton to peripheral skeleton.
但如果我们定义功能性运动，大多数人都同意它是在从躯干到外周、从核心到袖子、从腋窝骨骼到外周骨骼的收缩波中发挥作用的。
But that means, boy, there are positions where I'm really effective and can generate a lot of force, and there'll be positions where I can't.
但这意味着，天哪，有些职位我确实非常有效，可以产生很大的力量，而有些职位我则不能。
But if my spine can't handle flexion, it's not a spine.
但如果我的脊柱不能弯曲，那它就不是脊柱。
If it can't do extension, it's not a spine.
如果它不能伸展，那么它就不是脊柱。
If we can't rotate and be into these complex position shapes, I'm like, red flag.
如果我们不能旋转并进入这些复杂的位置形状，我想，危险信号。
So how are you training that thing?
那么你是如何训练那个东西的呢？
And if your only rigid dogma is straight up and down, which is a great reason to do mobility work, because suddenly we can side bend, and we can twist and am I exposing myself to some of those shapes?
如果你唯一严格的教条是直上直下，这是做移动性工作的一个重要原因，因为突然我们可以侧弯，我们可以扭转，我是否让自己暴露在其中一些形状中？
And so we call that work.
所以我们称之为工作。
Borrowing from one of my Olympic friends, Stu McMillan, spinal engine work, putting PVC side bending, playing with the different shapes.
借用我的一位奥运朋友斯图·麦克米伦 (Stu McMillan) 的经验，脊柱引擎的工作原理是，将 PVC 侧弯，玩弄不同的形状。
And again, if you get into the David Weck ropes, if you threw medicine balls, you would suddenly see, you're like, you're right, I can't be a rigid piece.
再说一次，如果你进入大卫·韦克的绳索，如果你扔健身球，你会突然发现，你会说，你是对的，我不能成为一个僵化的人。
How am I training the functionality of my trunk beyond just my six pack?
除了六块腹肌之外，我如何训练躯干的功能？
Because straight curling will certainly give you a six pack, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to surf with power, run with power, punch with power, etc. I mean, look at what just happened with those fights, right?
因为直冰壶肯定会让你拥有六块腹肌，但这并不一定意味着你会充满力量地冲浪、充满力量地跑步、充满力量地出拳等等。我的意思是，看看刚刚发生的那些战斗，对吗？
With the women fighting.
与女人们战斗。
Just the rotational power that they have.
只是他们拥有的旋转动力。
You can't get that from just crunches with your legs.
你不能仅仅通过双腿仰卧起坐来获得这一点。
Andrew Huberman: The fight right before the Tyson-Jake Paul fight was arguably the best fight and people had seen in a long, long time the spirit of it.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：泰森与杰克·保罗之战之前的那场比赛可以说是最好的一场比赛，人们在很长一段时间内已经看到了它的精神。
And just the, I mean, they were just incredible.
我的意思是，他们简直令人难以置信。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Everyone watches women's sports.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：每个人都观看女子运动。
It was really great.
真的很棒。
So I think what's great now is if we can get people to start to be curious and to play.
所以我认为现在最棒的是我们能让人们开始好奇并开始玩耍。
And, you know, I'm not saying you need 10,000 different movements, but instead of just hanging from the bar and doing knees to elbows or toes to bar, what happen if you brought your right foot to your left hand and you started adding in a rotation to that, and suddenly you're like, I suck at this.
而且，你知道，我并不是说你需要 10,000 种不同的动作，而是不是只是悬挂在杠上，用膝盖到肘部或脚趾到杠，如果你将右脚放在左手上，然后开始添加旋转，会发生什么，突然你会想，我对此很糟糕。
And ultimately, what I want to do is I want to uncover every deficiency in this play, because I'm still going to deadlift, I'm still going to swing, I'm still going to lunge.
最终，我想做的是发现这个动作中的每一个缺陷，因为我仍然会硬拉，我仍然会摆动，我仍然会弓箭步。
I'm doing all the things that I know that makes me feel robust and makes me ride my bike better and be a better kayaker.
我正在做所有我知道的事情，让我感觉自己很强壮，让我骑自行车更好，成为一名更好的皮划艇运动员。
But simultaneously, there's a lot of play on either side of that.
但与此同时，双方都有很多活动。
Andrew Huberman: I love that you're defining progression as incorporating these novel movements, exploring--
安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢你将进步定义为融入这些新颖的动作，探索——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --Dude, That's Westside 101, Lou Simmons.
Kelly Starrett 博士：——伙计，那是 Westside 101，Lou Simmons。
I mean, like, hey, this week we're squatting with this bar, then we're squatting with this bar, and then we're changing your height, then we're changing your stance.
我的意思是，嘿，这周我们用这个杠铃深蹲，然后我们用这个杠铃深蹲，然后我们改变你的身高，然后我们改变你的立场。
I mean, Westside Barbell has been doing this forever.
我的意思是，Westside Barbell 一直在这样做。
Andrew Huberman: I didn't realize they did that.
Andrew Huberman：我没有意识到他们这么做了。
I knew they were, like, crazy gnarly.
我知道他们就像是疯狂的粗暴的人。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Like, every bar has its own max, right?
Kelly Starrett 博士：就像，每个酒吧都有自己的最大值，对吧？
And so what they've done is said, hey, the squat pattern is the thing we're training.
所以他们所做的就是说，嘿，深蹲模式就是我们正在训练的东西。
But how do we put another twist to the pretzel?
但是我们如何给椒盐卷饼带来另一种变化呢？
Now the weight's in front, now the weight's behind.
现在重量在前面，现在重量在后面。
Now it's out, and now it's too deep.
现在已经出来了，现在又陷得太深了。
And now we're box squatting now, and like, wow, you're gonna have to be a really competent, skilled squatter to handle all that.
现在我们正在进行箱式深蹲，就像，哇，你必须是一个真正有能力、熟练的深蹲者才能处理所有这些。
Andrew Huberman: Seems like in so many sports, not just for resistance training, but in so many sports there's this move shift now toward being an ATV, an all trained vehicle like you.
Andrew Huberman：似乎在很多运动中，不仅仅是阻力训练，而且在很多运动中，现在都有这种转变，成为全地形车，像你一样经过全面训练的车辆。
You can't afford to just be good at one thing, you know.
你知道，你不能只擅长一件事。
And the cool thing about it is that, you know, the more dynamic range that people are expressing, the more kind of evolution you see of any kind of sport.
最酷的一点是，你知道，人们表现出的动态范围越大，你看到的任何运动的进化就越多。
And I think we're going to see this with fitness too.
我认为我们也会在健身领域看到这一点。
I'm realizing this as we have this conversation that what you're really suggesting is that people explore their movement patterns.
当我们进行这次对话时，我意识到你真正建议的是人们探索他们的运动模式。
I love this thing that I've heard you say for years and I know Mackenzie harps on this too, which is Brian MacKenzie.
我喜欢这句话，多年来我一直听到你说这句话，我知道麦肯齐也经常提到这一点，他就是布莱恩·麦肯齐。
That is, you should be able to breathe well in every position.
也就是说，你应该能够在每个姿势下呼吸良好。
It's such a fun test, actually it's such an easy test.
这是一个非常有趣的测试，实际上这是一个非常简单的测试。
You know, squat down like you're going to get something out of the cupboard.
你知道，蹲下来，就像要从柜子里拿出什么东西一样。
See if you can take like a full belly.
看看能不能吃得饱饱的。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: But simple as that.
Kelly Starrett 博士：就这么简单。
Andrew Huberman: See if you can get your belly going out on the inhale there.
Andrew Huberman：看看你吸气时能否让腹部鼓起来。
I like to do this test myself every once in a while hanging from the bar.
我喜欢时不时地挂在吧台上自己做这个测试。
I'll, you know those pikes, I don't get very many of them admittedly.
我会，你知道那些长矛，我承认我没有得到很多。
I'm doing like five sets of five.
我正在做五组，每组五组。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Awesome.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：太棒了。
Andrew Huberman: Occasionally will try and twist a little bit and as my grip strength improves slightly, maybe I'll be able to get more.
Andrew Huberman：偶尔会尝试稍微扭转一下，随着我的握力略有提高，也许我能够得到更多。
Usually my grip strength goes further--
通常我的握力会更进一步——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: If you had smaller legs it would be easier.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：如果你的腿较小，那就更容易了。
Andrew Huberman: Um, I'll take that as either a compliment or an insult coming from you.
Andrew Huberman：嗯，我会认为这是来自你的赞美或侮辱。
Kelly.
凯莉.
Um, Kelly's exceedingly strong.
嗯，凯利非常坚强。
He deadlifts 600 pounds on the regular.
他经常硬拉 600 磅。
He's exceedingly strong and he has incredible endurance.
他非常强壮，并且具有令人难以置信的耐力。
You're actually more of an endurance guy.
其实你是一个比较有耐力的人。
I think this is worth mentioning that you would have.
我认为这是值得一提的。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's why I'm not very strong.
Kelly Starrett 博士：这就是为什么我不是很坚强。
Andrew Huberman: You have, you have more of--
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你有，你有更多——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --I'm.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——我是。
Right.
正确的。
But have you seen my strong friends?
但你见过我坚强的朋友吗？
I'm not deflecting.
我没有偏转。
Your physiology is definitely biased towards certain things like, unequivocally, and what I am not good at is being brutally strong.
你的生理学肯定偏向于某些事情，比如，明确地说，我不擅长的是残酷地坚强。
Oh, I've been training for 20-plus years, hard training longer than that.
哦，我练了二十多年了，苦练的时间比这还长。
Thirty years.
三十年了。
And this is all I can deadlift.
这就是我能硬拉的全部了。
That's pathetic.
太可悲了。
Have you seen my strong friends?
你看到我坚强的朋友了吗？
So what you see is that I've been cramming a square peg into a round hole because I really like it.
所以你看到的是我一直把一个方钉塞进一个圆孔里，因为我真的很喜欢它。
But really I should be at probably 190 pounds.
但实际上我的体重应该是 190 磅。
And I should be an aerobic athlete, right?
我应该是一名有氧运动员，对吗？
Andrew Huberman: Like if we threw a hundred-pound backpack on you and went backpacking, you'd be fine.
安德鲁·休伯曼：就像我们给你扔了一个一百磅重的背包然后去背包旅行，你就没事了。
You'd, you'd be like, even now in the, you, you're sitting at somewhere like 240, right?
你会，你会想，即使现在，你，你坐在 240 左右的某个地方，对吗？
You're like 6' 2".
你大概身高 6 英尺 2 英寸。
You, you can go, you can go for days.
你，你可以走，你可以走几天。
Like you're naturally an endurance athlete.
就像您天生就是一名耐力运动员一样。
Absolutely.
绝对的。
And I think it's worth saying because if people are listening, Kelly's a big guy.
我认为这值得一提，因为如果人们愿意倾听，就会发现凯利是个大人物。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: All my training is biased towards, you cannot believe how much conditioning I do.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我所有的训练都是偏向于，你无法相信我做了多少调节。
I am a disciple of Joel Jameson.
我是乔尔·詹姆森的弟子。
I'm a huge fan of trying to look at where I'm spending my time in these different heart rate zones.
我非常热衷于尝试了解我在这些不同心率区域的时间花费情况。
And then, you know, I'm just such a nerd because my primary sport is trying to keep up with my wife on the mountain bike.
然后，你知道，我就是一个书呆子，因为我的主要运动是试图在山地自行车上跟上我妻子的步伐。
Andrew Huberman: I think this is really important because I think we've been talking a lot about things kind of adjacent to resistance training.
Andrew Huberman：我认为这非常重要，因为我认为我们已经讨论了很多与阻力训练相关的事情。
I think it's a wonderful shift now in, in culture, that resistance training is being used, done by, by, by young people, by older people, women and men.
我认为现在的文化发生了一个奇妙的转变，年轻人、老年人、女性和男性都在使用阻力训练。
You know, it's fantastic.
你知道，这太棒了。
This was not the case 10 years ago.
10年前情况并非如此。
This was definitely not the case 20 years ago.
20年前绝对不是这样的。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: No, for sure.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：不，当然。
Andrew Huberman: It was like bodybuilders, football, preseason football players, in the military were the only people.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：就像健美运动员、足球运动员、季前赛足球运动员一样，军队中是唯一的人。
Weight training, now it's everywhere.
重量训练，现在无处不在。
But you're naturally an endurance athlete.
但你天生就是一名耐力运动员。
I'm guessing that most people, I'm assuming is this true, fall into the slower twitch, kind of more endurance propensity than.
我猜想，大多数人，我猜这是真的，会陷入较慢的抽搐，比这更有耐力的倾向。
I mean, how many truly naturally strong, fast fiber type people are walking, walking around out there?
我的意思是，有多少真正天生强壮、快速纤维型的人在外面行走？
If we just took the general--
如果我们只拿将军——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: The ones that are, are sprinters and super springy.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：那些是短跑运动员和超级弹力运动员。
And you know who those people are?
你知道那些人是谁吗？
They're mutants.
他们是变种人。
You know, I think I was always best at a skilled sport that uses conditioning or uses strength.
你知道，我认为我一直最擅长一项需要体能或力量的技巧性运动。
When I compare myself to my friends who have huge aerobic engines, it's embarrassing.
当我将自己与拥有巨大有氧发动机的朋友进行比较时，我感到很尴尬。
I'm always the weakest, fattest, slowest, smallest person in the room.
我总是房间里最虚弱、最胖、最慢、最小的人。
And it is, I can't, like, if you just want an ego check, just come out and hang out with me.
是的，我不能，如果你只是想自我检查，那就出来和我一起出去玩吧。
Just meet my friends, see the people we're working with, and you'll see you're like, okay, genetics is not the same.
只要见见我的朋友，看看我们一起工作的人，你就会发现，好吧，遗传学是不一样的。
I think we've told a little bit of a lie in the internet sphere that like, if you eat this way and you do these, you'll be elite.
我认为我们在互联网领域撒了一点谎，比如，如果你这样吃并且这样做，你就会成为精英。
And like, we can certainly say that you have a training effect for sure and you should do that.
就像，我们可以肯定地说，你肯定有训练效果，你应该这样做。
But that's not the same thing as being a mutant.
但这与变种人不同。
And there are just so many mutants out there.
那里有很多突变体。
Shocking.
令人震惊。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
I think it's actually a worthwhile exercise to figure out what one's natural leanings are.
我认为弄清楚一个人的自然倾向是什么实际上是一个值得的练习。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: What do you like to do?
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：你喜欢做什么？
How about that?
怎么样？
I just think it's important that we remind ourselves that the whole point of this is to have the most fun.
我只是认为重要的是我们要提醒自己，这样做的全部目的是获得最大的乐趣。
And what you see, he put up a video of some Chinese elementary school kids and the Chinese Olympic lifting team coaches coming and assessing their kids.
你看到的，他发布了一段视频，视频中一些中国小学生和中国奥运举重队教练来评估他们的孩子。
And very quickly, they put kids over at squats.
很快，他们就让孩子们进行深蹲。
They had them jump on a single leg.
他们让他们用单腿跳。
They had them do double jumps.
他们让他们做二段跳。
And they were like, you, you, you have your parents call me, right?
他们就像，你，你，你让你的父母打电话给我，对吧？
So you can already see that coordination matters, wiring matters.
所以你已经可以看到协调很重要，布线也很重要。
And they were able to say, hey, these are the things that we think are going to make good Olympic lifters.
他们可以说，嘿，这些都是我们认为能够成为优秀奥运举重运动员的东西。
So those kids, I think we start to split cohorts early on.
所以这些孩子，我认为我们很早就开始分成小组。
But most important is everyone needs to weight lift, period.
但最重要的是每个人都需要举重，就这样。
And it's not light, two pink dumbbells.
而且还不轻，两个粉红色的哑铃。
It's real heavy weight lifting.
这是真正的举重。
But how much do you need to do to be better at your sport or to minimize your spine?
但是，您需要做多少努力才能更好地进行您的运动或减少您的脊柱呢？
Those are the spine changes or osteopenia or osteoporosis.
这些是脊柱变化或骨质减少或骨质疏松症。
Those are great conversations, but not necessarily conversations about performance.
这些都是很棒的对话，但不一定是关于性能的对话。
So it's almost like we need to divide this into aesthetics, and I'm keeping myself intact.
所以这几乎就像我们需要将其划分为美学，而我保持自己的完整性。
I want to go to the Olympics.
我想去参加奥运会。
Because what you're seeing in the world right now is that everyone's an expert.
因为你现在在世界上看到的是每个人都是专家。
I'm like, can I see how you work with 40 athletes?
我想，我能看看你是如何与 40 名运动员合作的吗？
Can I see how you periodize that?
我能看看你是如何划分周期的吗？
Can I see how you manage travel and nutrition?
我可以看看您如何管理旅行和营养吗？
Can I see how you know you were responsible or not responsible for this team having all its members?
我可以看看您如何知道您对这个拥有所有成员的团队负责或不负责吗？
So what we're seeing is that it's a...
所以我们看到的是，这是一个...
this performance thing is a really big task, and it gets confused and watered down a little bit by everyone.
这个性能问题是一项非常艰巨的任务，每个人都会对此感到困惑和淡化。
Fitness says, well, I, I squat, so I'm gonna be an expert, too.
健身说，好吧，我，我深蹲，所以我也会成为专家。
Not the same.
不一样。
Andrew Huberman: Our good friend Kenny Kane taught me something.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：我们的好朋友肯尼·凯恩教了我一些东西。
He's shaking.
他在发抖。
Kelly's shaking his head.
凯利摇摇头。
The best.
最好的。
The best.
最好的。
He's a wonderful guy.
他是一个很棒的人。
You're not going to find him on social media because a few years ago, he just decided to take his gym and himself off social media.
你不会在社交媒体上找到他，因为几年前，他刚刚决定将他的健身房和他自己从社交媒体上删除。
He's very, very talented.
他非常非常有才华。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So we're going to give you his phone number.
Kelly Starrett 博士：所以我们会给您他的电话号码。
We're going to have you call him because you can't DM him.
我们会让你给他打电话，因为你不能给他发私信。
Andrew Huberman: Very talented athlete and wonderful person.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：非常有才华的运动员和出色的人。
He taught me something, say about eight years ago that I've found oh so useful for my training, longevity, my enjoyment of training.
大约八年前，他教了我一些东西，我发现它对我的训练、长寿和享受训练非常有用。
And it was this very simple, 80% of your workouts, Andrew, he said, are going to be at 80% of what you could do that day.
安德鲁说，这非常简单，你 80% 的锻炼将是你当天能做的 80%。
Okay, that involves some humility.
好吧，这涉及到一些谦虚。
I like to sweat hard.
我喜欢出汗。
I associate intensity with hard work, etc. He said 10% are going to be at 90% intensity, meaning 100% is the most you could give possibly in whatever time is allotted on that day, given the sleep, given the nutrition, given the life circumstances on that day, the readiness for that day.
我将强度与努力工作等联系起来。他说 10% 将是 90% 的强度，这意味着 100% 是你在当天分配的任何时间内所能付出的最大努力，考虑到睡眠、营养、当天的生活环境、当天的准备情况。
And then here's where it breaks down a little bit more.
然后这里有更多的问题。
Five percent are going to be at 95% and 5% across the year are going to be maximum 100%.
5%将达到95%，全年5%将达到100%。
Everything you can give do or die workouts that day.
那天你可以做的一切都是做或死的锻炼。
And for me last year, I believe it was "The Rock Carry," Cameron Hanes's podcast.
去年对我来说，我相信是卡梅伦·汉斯 (Cameron Hanes) 的播客“The Rock Carry”。
I gave everything I had.
我付出了我所拥有的一切。
Of course, had the mountain been a little bit higher, I'd like to think I would have gone a little bit further.
当然，如果山再高一点，我想我会走得更远一点。
But I gave everything I could because that rock was slippery and it was muddy and my hamstring was out the day when we started that, you know, I was in pain when we started.
但我竭尽全力，因为那块岩石很滑，而且很泥泞，而且我们开始的那天我的腿筋受伤了，你知道，我们开始的时候我很痛苦。
Anyway, I think that advice that Kenny gave me was some of the best adventure advice I've ever heard because my tendency would have been and had been to come in and go at 90, 95 or 100% every single workout.
不管怎样，我认为肯尼给我的建议是我听过的最好的冒险建议之一，因为我的倾向是每次锻炼时都以 90%、95% 或 100% 的速度进出。
Caffeine, preworkout.
咖啡因，锻炼前。
Yep.
是的。
And it also brought me to this place where after eight or ten weeks of training, I would get a cold or I'd get some nagging thing, a little thing, not, you know, it wouldn't put me under, but then, or I need to take a week off.
这也让我经历了这样的情况：经过八周或十周的训练后，我会感冒，或者会遇到一些烦人的事情，一件小事，不是，你知道，这不会让我失望，但是，或者我需要休息一周。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Normal accident theory.
Kelly Starrett 博士：正常事故理论。
Right.
正确的。
Andrew Huberman: So I think I'd love your thoughts on Kenny's recommendation.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以我想我很想听听你对肯尼推荐的看法。
For me.
为我。
It's one of the things that I pass along anytime, says, how about some fitness advice?
这是我随时传递的事情之一，说，一些健身建议怎么样？
I say, well, listen, I'm a neuroscientist, not a fitness guy, but I know a thing or two based on the mistakes I've made.
我说，好吧，听着，我是一名神经科学家，不是健身专家，但根据我所犯的错误，我知道了一两件事。
Here's a great piece of advice that's really helped me.
这是一条非常有用的建议，对我很有帮助。
Eighty percent of your workouts, 80% intensity, another 10% at 90%, then the 95, 5% at 95, and 5% across the year are the all-out, everything you can give, leave it all on the mat type workouts.
你百分之八十的锻炼，80%的强度，另外10%的90%，然后是95%，5%的95%，全年的5%都是全力以赴，你能给予的一切，都留在垫子上的锻炼上。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Let me start with a simple idea.
Kelly Starrett 博士：让我从一个简单的想法开始。
We say, let's be consistent before we're heroic, right?
我们说，先保持一致，然后才成为英雄，对吗？
If your intensity causes you to not be able to show up for the gym for three days, I'm like, sweet, that was sweet.
如果你的强度导致你三天不能去健身房，我会想，太好了，那太好了。
And our adaptation response to that is sucky.
我们对此的适应反应很糟糕。
I much rather you be getting more consistent and not blowing yourself out.
我更希望你能变得更加一致，而不是把自己搞砸了。
Remember that there was a phase where we were like, you shouldn't be sore when you leave the gym.
请记住，有一个阶段我们认为，当你离开健身房时，你不应该感到酸痛。
Remember that?
还记得吗？
Like, there are people who would talk about, hey, leave some reps in reserve, like, show up the next day.
就像，有些人会说，嘿，留下一些代表储备，比如，第二天出现。
Grease the groove.
给凹槽涂上油脂。
That's old Pavel Tsatsouline stuff.
那是帕维尔·查苏林的旧事。
I think that's really good advice, especially since most people are not 20.
我认为这确实是一个很好的建议，尤其是因为大多数人还不到 20 岁。
Most people.
大多数人。
And when you're 20, you need to go find out what the limits are.
当你20岁的时候，你需要去找出极限是什么。
Touch the fence, the electric fence once in a while, right?
偶尔摸一下围栏、电围栏吧？
Andrew Huberman: Lick the...
安德鲁·休伯曼：舔……
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Lick all the doorknobs.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：舔所有的门把手。
Let's just call it that way.
我们就这样称呼它吧。
But what ends up happening is there's a lot of things that have to be in place for you to be able to go to the well that many times.
但最终发生的情况是，必须有很多事情才能让您能够多次去井。
And what we know now, because we have all of this data, is that we can make better progress not burning it to the ground every single time.
我们现在知道，因为我们拥有所有这些数据，所以我们可以取得更好的进展，而不是每次都将其付诸东流。
And it's difficult for us because if I'm just fitnessing, how do I quantify that, right?
这对我们来说很困难，因为如果我只是健身，我该如何量化它，对吗？
It's easy for us to quantify another kilo or another watt.
我们很容易量化另一公斤或另一瓦特。
That makes it a lot easier.
这使得事情变得容易多了。
And what you'll see is that the best practices of these athletes, we do spend a lot of 70 to 80% heart rate.
你会看到的是，这些运动员的最佳做法，我们确实花费了很多70%到80%的心率。
That's what we call recovery.
这就是我们所说的恢复。
In Joel Jameson language, 80 to 90, calling that conditioning 90 and above overload.
用 Joel Jameson 的话说，80 到 90，称之为调节 90 及以上超负荷。
But what I think is nice is that that gives me some days where I touch 78 or 80% and it's hard because I am sleep deprived, stressed out, my nutrition hasn't been great.
但我认为很好的是，这让我有几天可以达到 78 或 80%，这很难，因为我睡眠不足，压力很大，我的营养也不是很好。
I'm sleeping in a strange bed, right?
我睡在一张奇怪的床上，对吗？
You know, traveling, whatever.
你知道，旅行什么的。
So I think what you're seeing is something that one of my early coaches talked about, Mike Berger, he says, when the frying pan's hot, let's cook.
所以我认为你所看到的是我早期的一位教练迈克·伯杰（Mike Berger）谈到的，他说，当煎锅热时，让我们做饭。
And that means I need to know myself.
这意味着我需要了解自己。
And as a coach, I need to know you.
作为一名教练，我需要了解你。
And I'm like, Andrew, you look great today.
我说，安德鲁，你今天看起来棒极了。
How do you feel?
你感觉如何？
Great.
伟大的。
Let's go.
我们走吧。
Let's go chase something, right?
我们去追点什么吧？
And when the frying pan's hot, we cook.
当煎锅热了，我们就做饭。
But the frying pan is not always hot.
但煎锅并不总是很热。
And if you pour in bang energy and jacked 3D and you can't even hear inputs and outputs.
如果你注入爆炸能量并插入 3D，你甚至听不到输入和输出。
So I think that's such solid, reasonable advice.
所以我认为这是非常可靠、合理的建议。
And really, what we're looking at is how can we get you to train much more consistently.
实际上，我们正在考虑如何让您更加持续地进行训练。
Consistently longer and longer and longer.
持续越来越长，越来越长。
You can only go to the well a few times and what I'll tell you is that as I still love to power clean, it's like my favorite thing and that 100-kilo power clean is heavier than it was when I was 40, you know.
你只能去井几次，我要告诉你的是，因为我仍然喜欢高翻，这就像我最喜欢的事情，100公斤高翻比我40岁时重，你知道的。
And I want to pretend that a 100-kilo power clean is not a problem, but I actually have to progress and get myself there.
我想假装 100 公斤高翻不是问题，但实际上我必须进步并达到目标。
And there are days where I'm like, oh, 80 kilos is my jam today.
有时我会想，哦，今天我的目标就是 80 公斤。
So I think that's really good advice and difficulty for us to say how are we measuring success in our training?
因此，我认为这确实是一个很好的建议，但对于我们来说，如何衡量培训的成功与否是一个难题。
Subjective experience.
主观体验。
No, no problem.
不，没问题。
Let me give you a baby, keep this newborn alive and then let's go see how hard your training is the next day.
让我给你生个孩子，让这个新生儿活下去，然后我们去看看你第二天的训练有多努力。
You're going to be terrible.
你会变得很可怕。
You haven't slept all night, you're stressed, right?
你一晚上没睡，压力很大吧？
So I think what's nice is having some subobjective measurements around.
所以我认为最好的是进行一些次客观的测量。
Maybe body composition is one of them if that's important to you.
如果身体成分对您很重要的话，也许身体成分就是其中之一。
But are you getting faster over the course of a week?
但是在一周内你的速度是否变得更快了？
What are you testing?
你在测试什么？
How do we know inputs and outputs and right now we're just doing, we're baking a lot, we're making a lot suicides, right?
我们如何知道输入和输出，而现在我们只是在做，我们正在烘烤很多东西，我们正在做很多自杀，对吗？
You...
你...
the old fountain drink where you just mix all the things — it's, you know, they always taste the same at the end, like crap.
老式的喷泉饮料，你只需将所有的东西混合起来——你知道，它们最后的味道总是一样的，就像垃圾一样。
But that suicide where you mixed all the fountain drinks is a little bit of what we're seeing in that.
但是，你把所有的喷泉饮料混合在一起的自杀事件正是我们所看到的。
And one way of protecting ourselves is saying hey, let's make sure you can train tomorrow.
保护自己的一种方法是说嘿，让我们确保你明天可以训练。
Andrew Huberman: Suicides.
安德鲁·休伯曼：自杀。
I was reflecting on that the other day for some reason.
前几天我出于某种原因反思了这一点。
Why at a wedding or a party, young, typically it's a Y chromosome-associated disorder to feel like you had to mix a bunch of, bunch of stuff and then get someone to drink it.
为什么在婚礼或聚会上，年轻人，通常会感觉自己必须混合一堆一堆东西然后让别人喝掉，这是一种与 Y 染色体相关的疾病。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: You're not wrong.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：你没有错。
Andrew Huberman: Nonalcoholic drinks for young kids by the way.
Andrew Huberman：顺便说一下，适合小孩子的非酒精饮料。
But mixing all the sodas, putting M&Ms so something like all my male friends--
但是混合所有的苏打水，加入巧克力豆，就像我所有的男性朋友一样——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --And I think that's what we see a little bit.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——我认为这就是我们所看到的一点。
And if you, I am a deep coach nerd.
如果你是这样的话，我就是一个深度的教练书呆子。
I love fitness.
我热爱健身。
I love fitness.
我热爱健身。
Saying I'll jump into any class anytime.
说我随时都会跳进任何班级。
Like sure, let's go, let's see.
当然，我们走吧，让我们看看。
You know, I, it's so fun but I need to see.
你知道，我，这很有趣，但我需要看看。
I do get to watch sort of trends come and go.
我确实能看到某种趋势的来来去去。
Things get very hot, you know, they get very popular.
事情变得非常热门，你知道，它们变得非常受欢迎。
And again, the fitness has become a hobby.
再次，健身已经成为一种爱好。
It's an amusement.
这是一种乐趣。
And that's okay.
没关系。
It's totally okay that gym is a hobby.
健身是一种爱好是完全可以的。
But that doesn't hint about what's the best way to develop capacity.
但这并没有暗示什么是发展能力的最佳方式。
Elite capacity, long-term longevity capacity.
精英能力，长久长寿能力。
Those things almost don't go together.
这些事情几乎不能放在一起。
Andrew Huberman: Let's talk about hip extension.
Andrew Huberman：我们来谈谈髋部伸展。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Oh, bless you.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：哦，祝福你。
Andrew Huberman: As somebody who doesn't like the elliptical or stationary bike, but loves the assistance assault bike, I love the assault bike.
Andrew Huberman：作为一个不喜欢椭圆机或固定自行车但喜欢辅助突击自行车的人，我喜欢突击自行车。
I don't know why, it just feels like really good work.
不知道为什么，就是感觉工作非常好。
It is hard work, but you're not gonna find me on--
这是艰苦的工作，但你不会找到我--
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --Katie and Bill made it harder with the Echo bike.
Kelly Starrett 博士：——凯蒂和比尔使用 Echo 自行车让事情变得更加困难。
Thanks for making it worse.
谢谢你让事情变得更糟。
Andrew Huberman: What is it?
安德鲁·休伯曼：这是什么？
The Echo bike.
回声自行车。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: The Rogue Echo bike is even worse than the assault bike.
Kelly Starrett 博士：Rogue Echo 自行车甚至比突击自行车还要糟糕。
Andrew Huberman: The assault bike, by the way, folks, is the one with the fan.
Andrew Huberman：顺便说一句，朋友们，这辆突击自行车是带有风扇的。
And I'm not sure if they put, the fan is for resistance, not to keep you cool.
我不确定他们是否说过，风扇是为了抵抗，而不是为了让你保持凉爽。
But it has that effect somewhat.
但它有一定的效果。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: In the winter you'll know what the fan does.
Kelly Starrett 博士：冬天你就会知道风扇的作用。
Andrew Huberman: So the Echo bike is a harder assault bike.
Andrew Huberman：所以 Echo 自行车是一辆更硬的突击自行车。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: It's just like, imagine doing it on fire, uphill in the sand with a headwind.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：这就像，想象一下在火中，在逆风的沙地上爬山。
Then you're like, okay, this is if you can make it worse.
然后你会想，好吧，如果你能让事情变得更糟的话。
Andrew Huberman: It's worse if you have one of these.
Andrew Huberman：如果你有其中之一，情况会更糟。
I'm going to swing by this winter break and try this thing.
我打算在这个寒假期间尝试一下这个事情。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: But I love that because high physiology, low skill.
Kelly Starrett 博士：但我喜欢这个，因为生理学高，技能低。
That's great.
那太棒了。
Andrew Huberman: You just described me.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你刚刚描述了我。
In a nutshell.
简而言之。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I can take anyone, not have to know anything about your range of motion.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我可以带任何人，而不必了解您的运动范围。
I can be like, who are you physiologically today?
我可以说，今天你生理上是谁？
Let me introduce, produce this freakish amount of work in this tiny range of motion that's very safe.
让我介绍一下，在这个非常安全的微小运动范围内产生如此惊人的工作量。
So we can really touch high intensities very safely there.
所以我们可以在那里非常安全地接触高强度。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I like it much more than the skier.
Andrew Huberman：是的，我比滑雪者更喜欢它。
I'll do the skier every once in a while, but I find that the skier, if I just sit, sit and stand a bunch of times, I'd be like, I can just do this for 15 days, you know, I was like, is this exercise?
我偶尔会做一次滑雪，但我发现滑雪者，如果我只是坐、坐、站很多次，我会想，我可以这样做 15 天，你知道，我当时想，这是练习吗？
And I'm like, am I doing this right?
我想，我这样做对吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I don't know.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我不知道。
Andrew Huberman: For some reason it doesn't feel like work.
Andrew Huberman：出于某种原因，这感觉不像工作。
The assault bike always feels, always feels like work.
突击自行车总是给人一种工作的感觉。
Okay, so hip extension.
好的，髋部伸展。
The assault bike is not hip extension.
突击自行车不是髋部伸展。
Typically you're, you know, tend to be, people tend to be hunch forward.
通常情况下，你，你知道，人们往往会向前驼背。
You can get upright, right.
你可以直立起来，对吧。
You can sit still.
你可以坐着不动。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Don't have any hip extension.
Kelly Starrett 博士：不要进行任何髋部伸展。
Andrew Huberman: So no hip extension.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以没有髋部伸展。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Let's talk about if I'm squatting and I stand up, I'm extending the hip.
Kelly Starrett 博士：让我们来谈谈如果我蹲下并站起来，我会伸展臀部。
Andrew Huberman: As you stand up, right?
Andrew Huberman：当你站起来时，对吧？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I'm going from flexion to extension.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我将从屈曲变为伸展。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
One thing that I think for people listening, that at least is helpful for me when hearing about squatting is to think about whether or not it's a deadlift or a squat.
我认为对于听众来说，至少在听到深蹲时对我有帮助的一件事是思考它是硬拉还是深蹲。
You can imagine taking your hands, putting your fingers at your hips and, you know, hiding your hands in your, in your, in that joint between the femur and your pelvis.
你可以想象一下，握住你的手，将手指放在臀部，然后，你知道，将你的手藏在股骨和骨盆之间的关节中。
As you go down, right?
当你往下走的时候，对吗？
Your hands get tucked into the fold between the two.
你的手伸进两人之间的折痕里。
And as you stand up, it opens.
当你站起来时，它就会打开。
So it's hip hinge, they typically call it.
所以他们通常称之为髋关节铰链。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And I think what you, we look at the squat and the lunge is very...
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我认为，我们观察深蹲和弓步非常......
they're cousins.
他们是表兄弟。
And the difference is long lever, short lever, and typically how you're holding the weight.
区别在于长杠杆、短杠杆以及通常如何握住重量。
That's the only difference.
这是唯一的区别。
And sometimes upright torso position.
有时躯干呈直立姿势。
But ultimately we're really looking at, you know, what's happening with the degree of bend of the, of the knee, right?
但最终我们真正关注的是，你知道，膝盖的弯曲程度发生了什么，对吗？
That's why they're such elegant cousins.
这就是为什么他们是如此优雅的表兄弟。
But if I'm squatting down and I stand up, people are like, I'm working on extension.
但如果我蹲下来然后站起来，人们就会说，我正在做伸展运动。
Work on extension all the time.
始终致力于扩展。
I'm like, okay, now let's continue this extension conversation and bring that knee behind your butt into a lunge.
我想，好吧，现在让我们继续这个延伸对话，并将膝盖放在屁股后面，形成弓步。
And that's hip extension.
这就是髋部伸展。
And if there's one thing that I'm seeing across so many of the populations I work with is we're starting to see changes and erosion in this fundamental expression of power.
如果我在与我一起工作的这么多人群中看到一件事的话，那就是我们开始看到这种基本权力表达的变化和侵蚀。
The only people we don't see it in is in our Olympic sprinters.
我们唯一看不到这一点的是我们的奥运会短跑运动员。
There are, and you'll see that pockets like we work with the All Blacks and we're obsessed on maintaining the hip extension of these very strong athletes because it means that they can run faster on the field--
有，你会看到像我们与全黑队合作的口袋，我们痴迷于保持这些非常强壮的运动员的臀部伸展，因为这意味着他们可以在球场上跑得更快 -
Andrew Huberman: --Rugby team for those.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：——橄榄球队。
Am I correct in thinking that hip extension we can think of as a partially reflecting hamstring function where the hamstring is responsible for bringing the heel up toward the butt, but also for bringing the femur back behind the torso?
我是否正确地认为，髋部伸展可以被视为部分反映腿筋功能，其中腿筋负责将脚后跟拉向臀部，但也负责将股骨拉回到躯干后面？
I realize I'm not using the PT language, by the way.
顺便说一句，我意识到我没有使用 PT 语言。
The PTs online.
PT在线。
I'm sorry, everyone.
对不起，大家。
Your community of the PTs, you guys just crack me up.
你们的 PT 社区，你们简直让我笑疯了。
In the field of medicine, there's an analogous subspecialty of medicine where they have the similar kind of orneriness.
在医学领域，有一个类似的医学子专业，他们有类似的脾气。
And being a PT is very competitive.
而且成为 PT 的竞争非常激烈。
And so there's a, you don't do this, but the PT community, it's like it's some, you can make a cartoon, you can make a whole sitcom about this.
所以，你不这样做，但是 PT 社区，就像是一些，你可以制作一部动画片，你可以制作一部关于这个的整个情景喜剧。
The attacks often range from significant to like cluster around petty.
攻击的范围通常从重大到小型。
Not because they're not knowledgeable.
并不是因为他们没有知识。
But because there's so much nuance in this field, right?
但因为这个领域有太多细微差别，对吗？
And it seems that there are a few things that everyone agrees on and then everything else.
似乎有一些事情是每个人都同意的，然后是其他所有事情。
People love to argue in community, out of community.
人们喜欢在社区内和社区外争论。
So anytime I say anything about movement or the body, I wanted to just say I realize I'm probably not using the correct language, perfect language.
因此，每当我谈论有关运动或身体的任何事情时，我只想说我意识到我可能没有使用正确的语言，完美的语言。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I'm going to use that same defense of petty clusterness, clustering the pettiness.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我将使用同样的方法来防御琐碎的集群，将琐碎的事情聚集起来。
I'm sorry, all the physical therapists out there.
对不起，外面所有的物理治疗师。
I haven't represented you in the way that you would like to be represented.
我没有以你希望的方式代表你。
I'll say I'm just talking about my own experience.
我会说我只是在谈论我自己的经历。
Andrew Huberman: It's just differences in nomenclature.
Andrew Huberman：这只是术语上的差异。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Right, and I am trying to be very meticulous in my language today.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士： 是的，我今天努力在语言上非常谨慎。
One of the things that we want to look at is, and this is a Phillip Beach muscles meridians idea, is that there are contractual fields.
我们想要关注的事情之一是，这是菲利普海滩肌肉经络的想法，是存在契约场。
And this goes along with, if we look at Thomas Myers anatomy trains of seeing the system as a system of systems.
如果我们看看托马斯·迈尔斯（Thomas Myers）的解剖学，将系统视为系统的系统，这也是符合的。
So we start to look at your back and your erectors and then we tie that into the glutes and then we tie that into the hamstrings to tie the calf.
所以我们开始观察你的背部和竖脊肌，然后将其绑在臀肌上，然后将其绑在腿筋上以绑小腿。
It's kind of a whole, almost wraps around the door, the bottom of the foot, the plantar surface of the foot.
它有点像一个整体，几乎包裹着门、脚底、脚底面。
So suddenly we're looking at this global system that's designed to create this mass extension, position, locomotion.
突然之间，我们开始关注这个全球系统，它的设计目的是创造这种大规模的延伸、位置和运动。
We start to lock some of those pieces down a little bit.
我们开始稍微锁定其中一些部分。
But one of the things that we've seen is that when you aren't competent in this position, your hamstrings, for example, have to do a lot more work because your butt is no longer working on hip extension.
但我们看到的一件事是，当你不能胜任这个位置时，你的腿筋必须做更多的工作，因为你的臀部不再负责髋部伸展。
Your adductors are restricted and they're not bringing you back into flexion.
您的内收肌受到限制，无法使您恢复屈曲状态。
So suddenly what we see is that your hamstrings are having to do the work of the calf.
突然之间，我们看到你的腿筋必须承担小腿的工作。
But no wonder your hamstrings are tied all the time.
但难怪你的腿筋总是被绑着。
You don't have hip extension.
你没有髋部伸展。
So a simple test we do is called the couch stretch.
因此，我们做的一个简单测试称为沙发拉伸。
And all you need to do is face a wall, then turn away from the wall so you're kneeling on the ground, hands and knees away from the wall.
你需要做的就是面向墙壁，然后转身背对墙壁，这样你就跪在地上，手和膝盖远离墙壁。
You're going to put one of your knees in the corner so your foot is going straight up and down.
你要把你的一个膝盖放在角落里，这样你的脚就能笔直地上下移动。
The knee is in the corner of the wall.
膝盖位于墙角。
And then I want you to see if you can squeeze your butt in that position.
然后我想让你看看你是否可以将你的屁股挤压在那个位置。
Still hot.
还是很热。
Hands and knees, except one foot now is kind of in the corner down the wall going towards your butt.
手和膝盖，除了一只脚现在有点在墙角，朝着你的屁股。
That's position one.
那是位置一。
And a lot of people are going to struggle with recruiting and activating their butt in that position because it's what I am calling positionally inhibited.
很多人会在这个位置上努力招募和激活他们的屁股，因为这就是我所说的位置抑制。
We don't know what the mechanism is.
我们不知道其中的机制是什么。
Andrew Huberman: So you're getting the knee back behind the torso, much as one would if you were sprinting.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以你要把膝盖放回躯干后面，就像你在短跑时一样。
And the rear leg is really--
还有后腿真的是——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --we're just flexing the lower leg.
Kelly Starrett 博士：——我们只是弯曲小腿。
We're flexing the lower leg shank, right.
我们正在弯曲小腿小腿，对吧。
That lower limb.
那个下肢。
The second position is to come up into a high-knee kneeling position.
第二种姿势是高膝跪姿。
So you just bring your knee up and so like you're kneeling, except that we have a trailing leg now with a leg that's going up the wall.
所以你只需抬起你的膝盖，就像你跪着一样，只不过我们现在有一条后腿，还有一条腿在墙上。
Andrew Huberman: So front leg is a sort of a right angle.
Andrew Huberman：所以前腿是一种直角。
Right.
正确的。
Your foot on the ground.
你的脚踩在地上。
Right angle.
直角。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's right.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：没错。
Andrew Huberman: Rear leg is a knee tucked in the corner.
Andrew Huberman：后腿是膝盖塞在角落里。
That's exactly right at the foot where the floor meets the couch.
就在地板与沙发交界处的脚处。
Foot is up on the couch.
脚翘在沙发上。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Nope, just on the ground.
Kelly Starrett 博士：不，就在地面上。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
And we'll provide a link to it.
我们将提供一个链接。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And I call it the couch stretch because I created this thing a long time ago.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我称之为沙发伸展，因为我很久以前就创造了这个东西。
And I created on the couch for my young athletes while they were watching TV.
当我的年轻运动员看电视时，我在沙发上为他们创作。
Right.
正确的。
I just needed some hip extension exposure.
我只需要一些髋部伸展暴露。
But we can do it on the wall.
但我们可以在墙上做。
You can do it on the couch.
你可以在沙发上做。
Ultimately, what we try to see is do you have glute squeeze?
最终，我们想看看你是否有臀肌挤压？
Can you take a breath?
你能喘口气吗？
If your breath starts to get real small in this business, I'm like, huh?
如果你在这个行业开始变得非常小，我会想，嗯？
So every time your knee comes behind your body, you can't breathe anymore.
所以每次你的膝盖回到身体后面时，你就无法呼吸了。
How's that working for you when you run, is that good or bad?
当你跑步时，这对你有什么作用，是好是坏？
Seems to me that your breath should remain pretty constant independent of what your hip does.
在我看来，无论你的臀部做什么，你的呼吸都应该保持相当恒定。
So then we like to see if people can come to a more upright position.
那么我们想看看人们是否可以采取更直立的姿势。
So that's kind of position three.
这就是第三个位置。
So a little bit more upright torso.
所以躯干更加直立一点。
We're starting to increase hip demands.
我们开始增加臀部的需求。
As the torso comes upright, torso is coming upright.
当躯干直立时，躯干就会直立。
The knee is moving further away from the chest on that loaded leg.
在那条负重的腿上，膝盖距离胸部越来越远。
And what you'll see is that most people are going to be like, wow, that's real stiff.
你会看到大多数人都会觉得，哇，这真的很僵硬。
Or I can't even get there.
或者我根本就无法到达那里。
Or I can't breathe there.
或者我在那里无法呼吸。
I have to banana back to get there.
我得坐香蕉车才能到达那里。
And I certainly can't squeeze my butt there.
我当然不能在那里挤压我的屁股。
And I want to tell everyone this is a low level test.
我想告诉大家，这是一个低水平的测试。
The real test is your front foot goes up on a 12-inch to 18-inch box.
真正的测试是您的前脚踩在 12 英寸到 18 英寸的盒子上。
So we're not even in the test yet.
所以我们还没有进入测试阶段。
Andrew Huberman: We're in with front leg extended.
Andrew Huberman：我们前腿伸展。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: No, front leg just up higher.
Kelly Starrett 博士：不，前腿只是抬高一点。
So we elevate the front leg into what's called a hip lock.
因此，我们将前腿抬高，形成所谓的髋锁。
So that front leg is suddenly taking my pelvis and rotating it posteriorly.
所以那条前腿突然带动我的骨盆并向后旋转。
Knee is bringing the running into pelvis.
膝盖将跑步带入骨盆。
Pelvis is like tucking.
骨盆就像折叠一样。
And now you're really going to see what's going on with your hip extension.
现在你真的会看到你的髋部伸展发生了什么。
Andrew Huberman: So this is the extra equivalent position, more or less of front knee sprinting, like really like, like jutted up in the air, you know, maybe even past the belly button.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以这是额外的等效位置，或多或少是前膝冲刺，就像真的很像，就像在空中突出一样，你知道，甚至可能超过肚脐。
Definitely past the belly button.
肯定是过了肚脐眼。
Rear leg behind you.
后腿在你身后。
So this is sort of like, you know, caught in midstride.
所以这有点像，你知道，陷入困境。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Okay, that's right.
Kelly Starrett 博士：好的，没错。
And so suddenly we have this nice test that allows us to see in our competency there.
突然之间，我们有了这个很好的测试，让我们能够看到自己的能力。
And I want to remind you, if you do the couch stretch and film it, your knee is actually in hip extension.
我想提醒你，如果你做沙发伸展运动并拍摄它，你的膝盖实际上处于髋部伸展状态。
It's not, your knee isn't even behind your butt here.
不是的，你的膝盖甚至不在你的屁股后面。
It's that hard.
就是这么难。
And I'm still biasing it towards flexion.
我仍然偏向于弯曲。
So what we're seeing is that you have a real deficit of hip extension.
所以我们看到的是你的髋部伸展确实存在缺陷。
So that's one way to improve it.
所以这是改进它的一种方法。
You can just do the test — camp out there, take some breaths, contract, relax, breathe.
你可以直接做测试——在那里扎营，喘口气，收缩，放松，呼吸。
Do your resistance isometrics, whatever you want to do.
做你想做的阻力等距测量。
There are so many ways to judge that.
有很多方法可以判断这一点。
Up, rotate, side bend.
向上、旋转、侧弯。
The question is, how are you now loading that thing in your life?
问题是，你现在如何将这件事装载到你的生活中？
So we can put a band on you and get you to do some isometric standing.
所以我们可以给你戴上一根带子，让你做一些等距站立。
But show me in your movement language in the gym how you're reinforcing hip extension.
但请用你在健身房的动作语言向我展示你是如何加强髋部伸展的。
So when we were talking about deadlifting with a tandem stance, still not hip extension, right?
所以当我们谈论串联姿势硬拉时，仍然不是髋部伸展，对吧？
I'm extending the hip, but that trail leg is not.
我正在伸展臀部，但那条后腿却没有。
Rear foot elevated.
后脚抬高。
Split, squat, ding, ding, ding, ding.
劈、蹲、叮、叮、叮、叮。
We start to get there, right?
我们开始到达那里了，对吧？
Bulgarians.
保加利亚人。
Flipping a tire, like any time where I need to be able to.
翻转轮胎，就像我需要的任何时候一样。
A big lunge is a good example.
大弓步就是一个很好的例子。
Forward lunge, back lunge.
前弓步、后弓步。
Andrew Huberman: Tell me about flipping a tire.
Andrew Huberman：告诉我关于翻转轮胎的事情。
So are you talking about flipping a tire, but then, then at the top of the movement, you're doing like a kettlebell swing where you buck your hips forward like you're going to try and pee over that Volkswagen pushing over--
所以你是在谈论翻转轮胎，但是，然后，在动作的最高点，你就像壶铃摆动一样，你将臀部向前推，就像你要尝试在大众汽车推倒的地方撒尿一样——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --don't--
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——不要——
Andrew Huberman: --don't try and pee at the top, but you're talking about bucking the hips forward.
Andrew Huberman：——不要尝试在顶部撒尿，但你说的是向前推动臀部。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's right.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：没错。
Suddenly you're upright.
突然你就直立起来了。
And that leg, that trailing leg, is an extension in a long lever position.
那条腿，那条后腿，是长杠杆位置的延伸。
So we spend a lot of time programming.
所以我们花了很多时间在编程上。
One of the best persons at this is Frans Bosch, I mentioned earlier, and he has something I've termed like the Bosch Snatch.
我之前提到过，这方面最优秀的人之一是弗兰斯·博斯（Frans Bosch），他有一种我称之为“博斯抢夺”的东西。
So if you imagine being in a double stance.
所以如果你想象处于双重立场。
So I'm just like I'm swinging a kettlebell.
所以我就像在挥动壶铃一样。
If I took a plate or a dumbbell, doesn't matter.
如果我拿了一个盘子或一个哑铃，那也没关系。
I'm just going to basically go from a hip hinge and as I go overhead with the weight of the load, whatever's appropriate for you.
我基本上只是从髋部铰链开始，当我带着负载的重量越过头顶时，无论什么适合你。
I'm going to take my front foot and step it up on a box.
我要把我的前脚踩到一个盒子上。
So all of a sudden I'm going from a flexed position in the hip.
所以突然间我从臀部弯曲的位置开始。
Andrew Huberman: C-shaped body, right?
Andrew Huberman：C 形身材，对吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Or upright torso but hinged.
Kelly Starrett 博士：或者直立的躯干，但有铰链。
C-shaped, right.
C形，对。
Weird C and then Helvetica C.
奇怪的 C，然后是 Helvetica C。
And then I'm going to step forward and now I'm going to have that one of those legs is going to be an extension.
然后我要向前迈出一步，现在我要让其中一条腿成为延伸。
And so suddenly now we're adding speed to this extension because that's not what we do with reverse rear foot-elevated split squats.
现在我们突然增加了这个伸展的速度，因为这不是我们反向后脚抬高分腿深蹲所做的。
We're not loading that in speed.
我们加载速度不快。
So we start to add the speed component to what we're doing and suddenly we've discovered another way to challenge your movement.
因此，我们开始在我们正在做的事情中添加速度成分，突然我们发现了另一种挑战你的动作的方法。
It doesn't just always be half heavier, it can also be faster.
它不仅总是重一半，而且还可以更快。
So I'm basically if, imagine if I was--
所以我基本上是如果，想象一下如果我是——
Here's a great example.
这是一个很好的例子。
I love pressing.
我喜欢按。
I think overhead pressing is the bee's knees.
我认为过顶推举就是蜜蜂的膝盖。
It's one of my nonnegotiables.
这是我不容谈判的事情之一。
We're going to press, seesaw press, overhead press for pressing.
我们要进行推举、跷跷板推举、过头推举等推举。
But if I take your front foot and put it up on a box, make sure that back foot is straight with all your toes on the ground and press from that position.
但是，如果我把你的前脚放在一个盒子上，请确保后脚伸直，所有脚趾都放在地面上，然后从该位置按下。
You're going to find out why you don't have any hip extension.
你会发现为什么你没有任何髋部伸展。
It's going to be so you won't even think about the weight.
这样你就不会考虑重量了。
You'll think about your groin exploding.
你会觉得你的腹股沟爆炸了。
Andrew Huberman: So a lot of people recommend probing that mechanic, those mechanics with very light dumbbells.
安德鲁·休伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：所以很多人建议探索那个机械师，那些使用非常轻的哑铃的机械师。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: No go press, go find out how well you can press over and you're going to see that like wow, this tandem stance, front foot elevated, you know, press is going to kill.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：不去推举，去看看你能多好地推压，你会发现，哇，这种串联姿势，前脚抬高，你知道，推举会致命。
Andrew Huberman: You can, there's a movement I do, I'm guessing.
Andrew Huberman：你可以，我猜我正在做一个动作。
Well, I'm curious if it activates hip extension the way I think it does.
嗯，我很好奇它是否像我想象的那样激活髋部伸展。
Here's what I've been doing that I found useful.
这是我一直在做的、我发现有用的事情。
I don't know if it's true or not but what I'll do is I'll tie a fairly thick band to a pull-up bar.
我不知道这是真的还是假的，但我要做的就是在引体向上杆上绑一条相当粗的带子。
I'll squat down, I'll hold it like I'm holding a, like a pole in front of me like a pole carrier in a, in a, in a parade or something.
我会蹲下来，我会握住它，就像我拿着一根杆子一样，就像我前面拿着一根杆子一样，在游行中或其他什么地方。
I'll squat down and I'll jump up and, but instead of, but I'll buck my hips forward at the top.
我会蹲下来，然后跳起来，但我会在顶部将臀部向前推。
So like feet go out in front.
就像脚在前面伸出一样。
It's very unnatural movement actually, as opposed to jumping and putting my toes down, pointing my toes down, my toes are kicking forward.
实际上，这是非常不自然的动作，与跳跃和放下脚趾相反，我的脚趾向下，我的脚趾向前踢。
So I'm trying to mimic the top.
所以我试图模仿顶部。
Of a kettlebell swing at the top of this movement.
在这个动作的顶部进行壶铃摆动。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I would say, you know, one of the things that is useful for me as I am asked to come and tear through people's programming, look for holes in their movement practices.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我想说，你知道，这对我来说是有用的事情之一，因为我被要求来撕毁人们的编程，寻找他们运动实践中的漏洞。
We look at fundamental shapes.
我们着眼于基本形状。
So what's nice is that.
那么好的就是这样。
Okay, hang on everyone, let me define exercise for you.
好吧，大家稍等，我来给大家定义一下运动。
Let me just, I'll just give you a little framework and I'll start by saying if something is inflammatory.
让我简单说一下，我会给你一个小框架，我会先说是否有煽动性的事情。
The shoulder is not that complicated.
肩膀没那么复杂。
It doesn't do that many things.
它并没有做那么多事情。
Goes overhead, goes out to the side, goes in the front, it goes in the back.
从头顶走过去，从侧面走过去，从前面走，从后面走。
That's what your shoulder does.
这就是你的肩膀的作用。
You can bend the elbow, you can twist in all those shapes.
你可以弯曲肘部，你可以扭转所有这些形状。
But those are the four fundamental primary organizations of the shape of the shoulder.
但这些是肩部形状的四个基本主要组织。
Hip has flexion, extension, right?
髋关节有屈曲、伸展之分，对吗？
Really I could, I can go laterally, but that's just a different kind of squat.
我真的可以，我可以横向移动，但这只是另一种深蹲。
But really like am I squatting with a foot really narrow or am I squatting a little bit wider?
但实际上我的脚蹲得很窄还是稍微宽一点？
So what we can then do is say in these fundamental bookends, these benchmarks, this is what we call archetype.
所以我们可以做的就是在这些基本的书挡、这些基准中说，这就是我们所说的原型。
Suddenly I can ask, well, how are you loading your overhead position?
突然我可以问，好吧，你如何加载你的头顶位置？
So if you're always pressing on a bar or pulling on a lat down machine, you actually are overhead.
因此，如果你总是压杠子或拉高位器械，那么你实际上是在过头。
But you're not in the fullest expression of overhead, right?
但你并没有充分表达开销，对吧？
Which is your arms straight up and down parallel by your ears, hands over.
也就是你的手臂向上和向下伸直，与你的耳朵平行，双手交叉。
Andrew Huberman: The top of your head, over your head, right.
Andrew Huberman：在你的头顶，在你的头顶上方，对吧。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So what we can then do is say, well, what, what tools do you like to use?
Kelly Starrett 博士：那么我们能做的就是说，你喜欢使用什么工具？
Kettlebells.
壶铃。
Great.
伟大的。
That's one of the reasons kettles are so great.
这就是水壶如此出色的原因之一。
Single arm.
单臂。
I can't hold it out here.
我不能在这里坚持下去。
It's going to fall.
它会掉下来。
I have to finish over my head, right?
我必须完成我的头脑，对吗？
Dumbbells, the same, but the kettlebells assault.
哑铃，同样的，但壶铃是攻击性的。
It constrains us to express full overhead motion.
它限制我们表达完整的头顶运动。
I can look at, do you have enough inter-rotation with the hand by the side?
我可以看看，你旁边的手有足够的内旋吗？
Are you doing enough pressing-like activities?
您是否进行了足够的类似按压的活动？
Chaturanga.
查图兰加。
The finish position of my rock row, right?
我的摇滚排的终点位置，对吗？
Bench press, dip, running.
卧推、臂屈伸、跑步。
Those are all movements where my shoulder comes into extension, whether the arm is straight or bent.
这些都是我的肩膀伸展的动作，无论手臂是直的还是弯曲的。
So what's nice now is I can say, well, am I distracting those tissues or compressing those tissues.
所以现在很好的是我可以说，好吧，我是分散了这些组织的注意力还是压缩了这些组织。
Well, you're like, well, what do you mean?
好吧，你就像，好吧，你是什么意思？
I'm like, are you pressing?
我说，你压力大吗？
Are you doing a pull-up?
你在做引体向上吗？
Pressing overhead or doing a pull-up that's compressing or distraction.
推过头顶或做引体向上，以压缩或分散注意力。
Very simple ways of looking at these movements.
观察这些运动的非常简单的方法。
We can say, well, how are you coming there?
我们可以说，好吧，你怎么去那里？
Did you get there from snatch or did you get there from a front rack position?
你是从抢夺位置到达那里还是从前架位置到达那里？
So we can look at start position, finish position.
所以我们可以看看开始位置、结束位置。
And suddenly what you're realizing is you're like, oh, I'm starting to understand the root movements and root positions that help me improve performance, predict future performance and help me get through pain.
突然你意识到，哦，我开始理解根部动作和根部位置，它们可以帮助我提高表现、预测未来的表现并帮助我克服痛苦。
Because if I have people not expressing the highest level expression of the movement, that's something we can improve.
因为如果有人没有表达出运动的最高水平，我们就可以改进。
That's technique, right?
这就是技术吧？
It's not just get bigger and stronger, it's hey, let's be more technical, technically proficient.
这不仅仅是变得更大、更强，而是嘿，让我们变得更有技术，技术更精通。
So I have all of these ways of looking at the movement selection choices.
所以我有所有这些方式来看待动作选择。
Again, what are you comfortable with?
再说一遍，你对什么感到舒服？
But then I can challenge it with load, make it heavier.
但然后我可以用负载挑战它，让它更重。
We can do volume, we could add speed, we could add cardiorespiratory demand.
我们可以增加训练量，我们可以增加速度，我们可以增加心肺需求。
You could do more than five and suddenly you have to do 20.
你本来可以做超过 5 个，但突然间你必须做 20 个。
And we have metabolic demand in there.
我们那里有新陈代谢的需求。
You and I are competing, all of a sudden, right now, suddenly I go from open torque to close torque.
你和我正在竞争，突然之间，现在，突然我从打开扭矩变成关闭扭矩。
I go from giving you a barbell to a dumbbell, right?
我从给你杠铃变成了哑铃，对吗？
I go from open chain to closed chain.
我从开放链转向封闭链。
Suddenly we're like, holy moly.
突然我们就像，神圣的钼。
Block practice, random practice.
分块练习、随机练习。
I have all the tools for me to understand.
我拥有所有可以理解的工具。
Are you competent putting your arms over your head or are you exposing these shapes under these different domains?
您是否能够将手臂举过头顶，或者是否将这些形状暴露在这些不同的领域下？
And I think when we only look at sort of a few ranges of motion and we only look at load as the way, then we lose all the opportunity and richness of programming.
我认为，当我们只关注一些运动范围并且只将负载视为一种方式时，我们就会失去编程的所有机会和丰富性。
Andrew Huberman: Got it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：明白了。
Well, let me come back to my silly example of the band and the jump thing and say, okay, so for getting better hip extension, which is what I think a lot of people need, is what I'm hearing.
好吧，让我回到我关于乐队和跳跃的愚蠢例子，然后说，好吧，为了获得更好的髋部伸展，我认为这是很多人所需要的，这就是我所听到的。
A lot of people are in hip flexion.
很多人都处于髋关节屈曲状态。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So you're jumping and then coming up.
Kelly Starrett 博士：所以你先跳然后再上来。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I mean, or, you know, we've seen these beautiful images of certainly not me, but like people doing long jump where they're kind of like in a, in an armed position, something.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我的意思是，或者，你知道，我们看到的这些美丽的图像当然不是我，而是像人们在跳远，他们有点像处于武装状态。
Oh, I see what you're saying.
哦，我明白你在说什么。
Yeah.
是的。
So the idea is because with the band it's safe, right?
所以这个想法是因为有了乐队就安全了，对吗？
You know, trying to get the hip into extension or feet out in front of the jumping, it's a--
你知道，试图在跳跃前伸展臀部或伸出双脚，这是——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --Kipping pull-up without a pull-up.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——没有引体向上的基普引体向上。
You're just Kipping on the bar.
你只是在酒吧里闲逛。
Andrew Huberman: And I don't Kip on my pull-ups, by the way, because I'm a time under.
Andrew Huberman：顺便说一下，我不会做引体向上，因为我已经处于低潮期了。
No, I don't Kip on my pull-ups.
不，我不做引体向上。
I do.
我愿意。
I train with Ben Bruno from time to time.
我时常和本·布鲁诺一起训练。
You Kip on a pull-up with Ben Bruno there, you're never going to hear the end of it ever.
你和本·布鲁诺一起做引体向上，你永远不会听到它的结束。
So I don't.
所以我不。
But I don't anyway, because I, I'm a time.
但无论如何我不这样做，因为我，我是一个时间。
I'm a time under attention guy.
我是一个受到关注的人。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：I.
That's fine.
没关系。
I'm going to say that I love strict pull-ups.
我想说我喜欢严格的引体向上。
I do more strict pull-ups than you can imagine.
我做的引体向上比你想象的要严格得多。
But if you can't Kip, there's something wrong with you.
但如果你不能Kip，那你就有问题了。
Andrew Huberman: Okay, got it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的，明白了。
We'll argue about this more offline.
我们将在线下讨论这个问题。
But I love to sprint.
但我喜欢短跑。
So that's hip extension.
这就是髋部伸展。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Absolutely.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：当然。
Andrew Huberman: Love to sprint.
安德鲁·休伯曼：热爱短跑。
And I love jumping.
而且我喜欢跳跃。
Like, I'm a big believer in this maybe true, maybe not true idea that as we get older, we tend to jump and land less.
就像，我坚信这个也许是正确的，也许不是正确的想法，即随着年龄的增长，我们往往会减少跳跃和着陆。
A lot of injuries come from lack of eccentric load--
很多伤害都是由于缺乏偏心载荷造成的——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --There's a saying out of the Soviet system, when you stop jumping, you start dying.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——苏联体制中有一句话，当你停止跳跃时，你就开始死亡。
I believe that.
我相信这一点。
And the lowest form could be trampolining.
最低的形式可能是蹦床。
The highest low, another low form, jump roping.
最高低，另一种低形式，跳绳。
Highest form starts to be really powerful.
最高形态开始变得非常强大。
I love it.
我喜欢它。
You're killing it.
你正在杀了它。
And what's great now is you just made this switch where you started describing your training in blocks of positions.
现在最棒的是你刚刚做出了这个转变，你开始以多个位置描述你的训练。
What position am I training?
我训练什么位置？
What shape am I reinforcing?
我要强化什么形状？
That's really not, it's not a muscle.
事实并非如此，这不是肌肉。
Remember, your muscles are not wired for movement.
请记住，您的肌肉不适合运动。
Your brain is wired, required for movement, right?
你的大脑是有连接的，需要运动，对吧？
You can't, you don't have any selective control over a single muscle in your body.
你不能，你对身体的一块肌肉没有任何选择性的控制。
That's a mistake.
这是一个错误。
So you're not really working your biceps, you're working arm flexion, right?
所以你并没有真正锻炼二头肌，而是锻炼手臂屈曲，对吧？
In a variety of positions.
担任各种职位。
This squat exercise biases my quads more.
这个深蹲练习对我的股四头肌的影响更大。
But I'm not actually squatting, right, because that's impossible.
但我实际上并没有蹲着，对吧，因为那是不可能的。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I think that the, the misconception, the broad misconception is that resistance training is just to build and strengthen muscles in a bodybuilding kind of fashion.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我认为，一种误解，一种广泛的误解是，阻力训练只是以健美的方式增强和增强肌肉。
And no disrespect to the bodybuilders, but.
并没有对健美运动员的不尊重，但是。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: No, we learned a lot.
Kelly Starrett 博士：不，我们学到了很多。
Andrew Huberman: But, you know, we learned a ton.
Andrew Huberman：但是，你知道，我们学到了很多东西。
And yet, most people would probably do well to think about functional movements.
然而，大多数人可能会更好地考虑功能性运动。
In fact, there are a few Instagram accounts that really like to come after not just me, but a lot of people that have talked about resistance training at all, that talk about functional patterns.
事实上，有一些 Instagram 账户不仅喜欢追随我，还喜欢追随很多谈论阻力训练、谈论功能模式的人。
And I have to say as much as the, the messaging sometimes I think is a little bit abrasive, I pay attention to these and I have seen some of the before and afters that they'll show for people that will incorporate into their training, training, like throwing or you know, ballistic movements from, you know, fully stopped sprinting out the gate kind of thing and focusing immensely on balancing the two sides of the body.
我不得不说，有时我认为这些信息有点粗暴，我注意到这些，我看到了一些之前和之后的内容，它们会向人们展示，这些内容将融入他们的训练中，训练，比如投掷，或者你知道的，弹道运动，你知道，完全停止冲出大门之类的事情，并极大地专注于平衡身体的两侧。
And without ever having done those programs, I have to say, like, yeah, like a lot of these people had some pretty dysfunctional patterns and they look like they're doing better.
在没有完成这些计划的情况下，我不得不说，是的，就像很多人都有一些相当不正常的模式，但他们看起来做得更好。
And I think it's because I must, I have to assume that they're incorporating a much broader range of movements, more hip extension, working the two sides of the body, all the things that you're talking about.
我认为这是因为我必须，我必须假设它们纳入了更广泛的运动范围，更多的髋部伸展，锻炼身体的两侧，所有你正在谈论的事情。
And so I think that the bodybuilding piece I think is a great thing for getting people out the gate.
所以我认为健美运动对于让人们走出大门来说是一件很棒的事情。
I always say the amazing thing about resistance training, forgive me for going long here, but I think this is something that if somebody is not naturally inclined to exercise or resistance training.
我总是说阻力训练的神奇之处，请原谅我在这里说得太长，但我认为如果有人天生不倾向于锻炼或阻力训练，那就会发生这种情况。
Resistance training is one of the few forms of exercise that because of the blood flow, the so-called pump, gives people a visual and sensation, a sensation-based window into the progress they might make.
阻力训练是少数几种运动形式之一，它通过血液流动（即所谓的泵）为人们提供视觉和感觉，以及基于感觉的窗口，了解他们可能取得的进展。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Hell yeah.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士： 是的。
Andrew Huberman: Right?
安德鲁·休伯曼：对吗？
I mean this is unlike going for a run and getting to like at the end of your run you see a little less body fat and then two days later you, you've reduced your body fat percentage, right?
我的意思是，这不像去跑步，在跑步结束时，你会发现身体脂肪减少了一点，然后两天后，你的身体脂肪百分比就减少了，对吗？
Like it gives you a window into your future when you resistance train that way.
当你以这种方式进行阻力训练时，它会为你打开一扇通向未来的窗户。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And, and a gateway into a conversation that's very complex.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：而且，还有一个进入非常复杂的对话的门户。
This is all I think about.
这就是我所想的。
And people are like, hey, I just want to feel better and I don't want to get hurt in my calves when I run.
人们会说，嘿，我只是想感觉好一点，我不想跑步时小腿受伤。
You're like, okay, it can be really simple.
你会想，好吧，这可以很简单。
And also you have your right to look jacked and tan.
而且你也有权利让自己看起来晒黑、晒黑。
I mean you can be jacked all you want.
我的意思是你可以随心所欲地被劫持。
Andrew Huberman: Mark Bell makes this point every single post.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：马克·贝尔（Mark Bell）在每一篇文章中都强调了这一点。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Look, I think there's something that I try, we don't ever punch down.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：听着，我想我会尝试一些东西，但我们从来不会压制。
We just don't, you know, just point, we point to what we do.
我们只是不，你知道，只是指出，我们指出我们所做的事情。
This is our model.
这是我们的模型。
But any model that someone's on the internet, a model has to do three things.
但任何在互联网上出现的模型，模型都必须做三件事。
It has to explain current phenomena, right?
它必须解释当前的现象，对吧？
It has to predict future phenomena and it has to be easily communicated.
它必须能够预测未来的现象并且必须易于沟通。
So let me see your model, how it works, how does it explain?
那么让我看看你的模型，它是如何工作的，它是如何解释的？
If I do your thing, will I get better at this thing?
如果我做你的事，我会在这件事上做得更好吗？
Right?
正确的？
That's the thing I'm interested in, right?
这就是我感兴趣的事情，对吗？
So what I see is, oh, a lot of recursive fun fitness where people feel better, but I still have to go over here and squat or I still have to go over here and become conditioned.
所以我看到的是，哦，有很多递归有趣的健身，人们感觉更好，但我仍然必须去这里蹲下，或者我仍然必须去这里并适应。
But you can see the truth of needing to expose people to bigger ranges of motion and more skilled moves, movement than some of the things we're getting traditionally in the gym, right?
但你可以看到事实是，与我们传统上在健身房得到的一些东西相比，需要让人们进行更大范围的运动和更熟练的运动，对吗？
And I think one of the things that we saw with, like, a pivot towards movement culture, right, kind of coined by Ido Portal, is that what we were seeing is that the gym didn't beget necessarily better movers.
我认为我们看到的一件事是，我们看到的事情之一，比如转向运动文化，对，有点由 Ido Portal 创造，我们看到的是，健身房不一定会产生更好的运动者。
What we had was people originally doing a skill, throwing something, running track and field.
我们所拥有的是人们最初做的一项技能，扔东西，跑田径。
We would train and then go do more of that.
我们会进行训练，然后再做更多的事情。
And then what we did is we took the gym or took the sports skill movement out of it and we just remained in the gym.
然后我们所做的就是我们去健身房或者把运动技能运动从其中拿出来，我们只是留在健身房里。
And you can see the reaction to that as well.
你也可以看到对此的反应。
You're not very elegant.
你不太优雅。
You can't, don't have any movement solutions.
你不能，没有任何运动解决方案。
You don't transfer your energy very well.
你不能很好地转移你的能量。
You're not, you know, you're not graceful.
你不，你知道，你不优雅。
You can't, you have no rhythm.
你不能，你没有节奏。
So the real key for us is like, I think we want to put play back in there and you can see what the reaction is to, hey, if we're just doing bench press and hack squats, maybe that's not, maybe making the best mover, but it's certainly making a jacked guy who's what we call, what is it in that movie, hot girl fit,"Hot Girl Fit," where you know, it's one of the recent movies where the guy is, who's the guy from Twisters, that incredible actor.
所以对我们来说真正的关键是，我想我们想把播放放回去，你可以看到反应是什么，嘿，如果我们只是做卧推和哈克深蹲，也许这不是，也许会成为最好的移动者，但它肯定会造就一个我们所说的被千斤顶的家伙，那部电影里有什么，辣妹合身，“辣妹合身”，你知道，这是最近的电影之一，那个家伙是谁，他来自龙卷风，那个令人难以置信的演员。
He was in Top Gun.
他在《壮志凌云》中。
Anyway, he's swimming and the girl is like, hey, why are you out of breath?
不管怎样，他在游泳，女孩就说，嘿，你为什么上气不接下气？
He's like, I don't do cardio, I just do abs and biceps.
他说，我不做有氧运动，我只做腹肌和二头肌。
She's like, oh my God, you're hot girl fit.
她说，天哪，你真是个辣妹。
Like you have this big engine that looks good with no go.
就像你有一个大引擎，看起来很好，但没有启动。
And I want to make sure that no offense to all the hot girls out there, but the idea here is what is it you want to do with your body?
我想确保无意冒犯所有辣妹，但这里的想法是你想用自己的身体做什么？
Let's start there and then we can start to say, well, what do you have access to?
让我们从这里开始，然后我们可以开始说，好吧，你可以访问什么？
What's your training age?
你的训练年龄是多少？
And it's a nuanced conversation.
这是一次微妙的对话。
It's probably why you should have a coach and develop a coach for the rest of your life.
这可能就是为什么你应该有一个教练并在你的余生培养一个教练。
But let's not pretend having abs and big biceps is going to make you a good MMA fighter, right?
但我们不要假装拥有腹肌和大二头肌就能让你成为一名优秀的综合格斗选手，对吧？
And you can see why the resistance of, hey, that made me less athletic.
你可以明白为什么，嘿，这让我的运动能力下降。
We want to be careful of that.
我们要小心这一点。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
I like using resistance training to make me stronger and better at running.
我喜欢使用阻力训练来让我变得更强壮，跑得更好。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yes.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的。
Andrew Huberman: And that's my, that's actually training.
Andrew Huberman：这就是我的，这实际上是训练。
That's what's in my mind.
这就是我的想法。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yes.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的。
Andrew Huberman: I only ran cross country one season in high school.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我在高中时只跑过一个赛季的越野赛。
Wasn't very good, but really enjoyed it.
不是很好，但真的很享受。
But I love running.
但我喜欢跑步。
I've been running for a long time and, and I'm, I'll never be a--
我已经跑步很长时间了，而且我，我永远不会成为——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --I ran cross country one year in high school.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——我在高中时跑过一年越野赛。
Andrew Huberman: Maybe we ran against each other.
安德鲁·休伯曼：也许我们互相竞争。
Oh no, you're a year older than I am.
哦不，你比我大一岁。
So I want to--
所以我想——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --Yeah.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——是的。
Andrew Huberman: Well, I'll tell the story some other time.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好吧，我下次再讲这个故事。
It's not.
它不是。
My stories aren't relevant here.
我的故事与此无关。
But I use resistance training to be able to run better, faster, further without pain.
但我使用阻力训练是为了能够跑得更好、更快、更远，而且不会感到疼痛。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: For me, that is what I would hope we look at training for.
Kelly Starrett 博士：对我来说，这就是我希望我们进行培训的目的。
Now apply a longevity lens, a durability lens.
现在应用长寿镜片，耐用镜片。
Or as Juliet says, she's like, don't you want to just be able to pop off the couch and go on adventures?
或者正如朱丽叶所说，她就像，难道你不想从沙发上跳起来去冒险吗？
I want to have a body that's capable of that.
我想要拥有一个有能力做到这一点的身体。
I think what we've been pitching in the gym doesn't really do that.
我认为我们在健身房里所做的努力并没有真正做到这一点。
And even that I just want everyone to hear and double-click on what Andrew said.
即便如此，我只是希望每个人都能听到并双击安德鲁所说的话。
That framework is that I now have a third-party objective measure.
这个框架就是我现在有一个第三方客观衡量标准。
Does my running get better with my training?
通过我的训练，我的跑步会变得更好吗？
It's a really great way to evaluate your training.
这是评估您的训练的一个非常好的方法。
Am I faster?
我更快吗？
Do I feel better?
我感觉好点了吗？
Andrew Huberman: It's really worked for me and it keeps me out of any kind of gravitational pull toward just trying to get more weight on the hack squat machine, which I enjoy.
Andrew Huberman：这对我来说真的很有效，它让我摆脱了任何形式的引力，而只是试图在我喜欢的哈克深蹲机上增加重量。
Progressive overload.
渐进性超负荷。
I enjoy doing movements better with more weight, etc. But I find that the gym just becomes this, when it's a closed loop, I find it becomes this kind of like endless exploration of like what am I really also at this age, like I want to maintain strength and build some muscle.
我喜欢用更大的重量做更好的动作，等等。但我发现健身房就变成了这样，当它是一个闭环时，我发现它变成了一种无休止的探索，就像我在这个年龄段到底是什么，就像我想保持力量并锻炼一些肌肉。
Perhaps, but most--
也许吧，但大多数——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --do you want to get heavier?
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——你想增重吗？
Andrew Huberman: I don't.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我不这么认为。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Isn't that weird?
Kelly Starrett 博士： 这不是很奇怪吗？
Andrew Huberman: I don't.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我不这么认为。
No. My goal right now--
不，我现在的目标——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --You need as much muscle as you can because winter's coming.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：--你需要尽可能多的肌肉，因为冬天即将来临。
Andrew Huberman: My goal is to actually get much stronger without getting bigger and, and to keep my endurance going.
Andrew Huberman：我的目标是在不变得更大的情况下真正变得更强，并保持我的耐力。
I like to do one long rucker run per week.
我喜欢每周进行一次长距离立杆跑。
At one shorter run, one.
在较短的一段时间内，一。
One sprint-type run.
一次冲刺跑。
I just figure like I'll be everyone.
我只是想我会成为所有人。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: What you just described for a typical person is doing a long piece, a short piece and a high intensity piece.
Kelly Starrett 博士：您刚才描述的典型人是做长曲、短曲和高强度曲。
That's rad.
那是拉德。
That is, that's the crack.
也就是说，这就是裂缝。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
That's what I do every week if I'm, you know, most weeks.
这就是我每周都会做的事情，如果我是，你知道，大多数星期。
And then I'll lift, you know, legs one day.
然后有一天我会举起双腿。
You know, torso.
你知道，躯干。
Everyone laughs.
大家都笑了。
Torso.
躯干。
What kind of, you know, torso, including neck and abs.
你知道，躯干是什么样的，包括颈部和腹肌。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Let's take a next level.
Kelly Starrett 博士：让我们更进一步。
Let's go flank too.
我们也去侧翼吧。
You want to get torso and flank really confused.
你想让躯干和侧翼真正混淆。
Andrew Huberman: And then I'll do the, what could be called distal muscles.
Andrew Huberman：然后我会做所谓的远端肌肉。
I'll do an extra workout for, for calves, biceps and triceps and forearms in grip strength on Saturday and that combination of things.
周六我会额外进行小腿、二头肌、三头肌和前臂的握力训练以及这些训练的组合。
This isn't about my...
这不是关于我的...
training to me meets the demands of life.
训练对我来说满足了生活的需要。
Like I can sprint for the airplane with my luggage and get there and not cough up both lungs.
就像我可以带着行李冲向飞机并到达那里而不会咳出双肺一样。
I can go backpacking.
我可以去背包旅行。
Like if you say, hey, let's go backpacking or Grand Canyon tomorrow; you're going to carry 75-pound sack--
Like if you say, hey, let's go backpacking or Grand Canyon tomorrow;你要背75磅重的袋子——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --what a great--
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——太棒了——
Andrew Huberman: --I'll be a little bit sore at night, but it'll feel good.
Andrew Huberman：——晚上我会有点酸痛，但感觉很好。
I'll feel good sore.
我会感觉好痛。
We can go to the gym together and I can put, you know, what feels to me like a respectable amount of weight on the hack squat.
We can go to the gym together and I can put, you know, what feels to me like a respectable amount of weight on the hack squat.
We do some full range glute ham raises.
我们做了一些全范围的臀腿抬高。
I can hang from a bar, but I'm not trying to beat a pull-up record or run a marathon.
I can hang from a bar, but I'm not trying to beat a pull-up record or run a marathon.
I find that anytime I've gone to the extreme in any one kind of training, I end up injured, sick, and I'm just not interested in that.
I find that anytime I've gone to the extreme in any one kind of training, I end up injured, sick, and I'm just not interested in that.
And I like to think I could be wrong.
我喜欢认为我可能是错的。
I'm projecting here probably that I'm representative of what most people want.
我在这里预测我可能代表了大多数人的需求。
I also want to be able to overeat a little bit every now and again, like Thanksgiving's coming a little bit.
我也希望能够时不时地吃得过多一点，就像感恩节即将到来一样。
I also want to be able to not have to eat all day and then eat a big dinner and not dissolve into a puddle of my own tears because I'm neurotically worried about something nutrition based.
I also want to be able to not have to eat all day and then eat a big dinner and not dissolve into a puddle of my own tears because I'm neurotically worried about something nutrition based.
Like I tend to, I basically skip one meal a day just by virtue of my schedule.
就像我倾向于的那样，我基本上每天只根据我的日程安排不吃一顿饭。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's right.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：没错。
Andrew Huberman: It's like nonintentional intermittent fasting.
安德鲁·休伯曼：这就像无意识的间歇性禁食。
And the people who are obsessive about protein will say, well gosh, that isn't as good.
And the people who are obsessive about protein will say, well gosh, that isn't as good.
But yeah, okay, so maybe I get a little bit less muscle.
但是，是的，好吧，所以也许我的肌肉会少一点。
I'm not doing, I don't want to be so neurotic about my training that I'm not focused on the bigger missions of my life.
我不这样做，我不想对我的训练如此神经质，以至于我不专注于我人生中更大的使命。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: And notice that what you said was I train so I can have fun and I just want to double-click on that.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：请注意，您所说的是我训练，这样我就可以玩得开心，我只想双击它。
We have sucked the joy and the play and exposure out of training and out of fitness.
我们从训练和健身中吸取了快乐、玩耍和暴露的感觉。
And now it's, I have to have this VO2 max so I'll live to 150 and I have to do, right?
现在，我必须达到最大摄氧量，这样我才能活到 150 岁，我必须这样做，对吗？
And you forgot that we, this whole thing is so you can go spend some credits.
你忘了我们，这整件事是为了让你可以花一些积分。
So I like to say the gym and all that really focused training is spending time on credits.
所以我想说健身房和所有真正集中的训练都是花时间在学分上。
But one of my coach friends, Nicole Christensen, says — CrossFit Roots.
But one of my coach friends, Nicole Christensen, says — CrossFit Roots.
She's like, we don't nature for time.
她就像，我们不喜欢时间。
Stop naturing for time like this.
停止这样的时间自然。
We're surfing, so we can surf all day and we can surf more waves than the other kids because they're not fit enough, right?
We're surfing, so we can surf all day and we can surf more waves than the other kids because they're not fit enough, right?
I want to go hike and then ride my bike and play and ski and do all the things I want to do with my body.
我想去远足，然后骑自行车、玩耍、滑雪，做所有我想做的事情。
And that made me, I want to hold my kids or I want to do my job.
And that made me, I want to hold my kids or I want to do my job.
And this, you know, in this world warehouse, we start to train for life in a little bit more simple way, and it doesn't feel like this crazy burden.
And this, you know, in this world warehouse, we start to train for life in a little bit more simple way, and it doesn't feel like this crazy burden.
And it also happens to be the best tool to understand how you're moving, because my expert coaches can watch you run and be like, oh, that's what we're working on.
And it also happens to be the best tool to understand how you're moving, because my expert coaches can watch you run and be like, oh, that's what we're working on.
And I'll go right to the thing, right?
我会直接说正事，对吗？
But for the rest of us, we need to say, wow, my shoulder, that bench, that fly dumbbell bench was a little bit tricky.
但对于我们其他人来说，我们需要说，哇，我的肩膀，那个长凳，那个飞哑铃长凳有点棘手。
I'm losing some shoulder, shoulder extension, right?
我正在失去一些肩膀、肩膀伸展，对吗？
Or at least I'm touching these shapes.
或者至少我正在触摸这些形状。
And that ends up being a really interesting diagnostic tool where we can really take a shot at improving function and reducing musculoskeletal distress.
And that ends up being a really interesting diagnostic tool where we can really take a shot at improving function and reducing musculoskeletal distress.
And I think this is the template for it.
我认为这就是它的模板。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Enjoying your training and including enjoying training hard is one of the best things one can do.
Enjoying your training and including enjoying training hard is one of the best things one can do.
Years ago, when I was skateboarding, I mean, I ruined skateboarding for myself because got picked up, out of sympathy, to be fair, by a couple sponsors and then got obsessed with the fact that, you know, I wasn't progressing, that broke my foot, and, you know, pretty soon I didn't hate it.
Years ago, when I was skateboarding, I mean, I ruined skateboarding for myself because got picked up, out of sympathy, to be fair, by a couple sponsors and then got obsessed with the fact that, you know, I wasn't progressing, that broke my foot, and, you know, pretty soon I didn't hate it.
I loved it and I loved the community, but it turned into something else.
我喜欢它，我喜欢这个社区，但它变成了别的东西。
And had I just taken a step back from it and said, all right, I'm decent at this, I could get better, and I'm just going to focus on doing it for pleasure and make a living some other way, I'd probably be doing, you know, like, you know, front side inverts in pools now.
And had I just taken a step back from it and said, all right, I'm decent at this, I could get better, and I'm just going to focus on doing it for pleasure and make a living some other way, I'd probably be doing, you know, like, you know, front side inverts in pools now.
And unfortunately, I'm not.
不幸的是，我不是。
I'm lucky if I get a nice little frontside grind on coping.
如果我能在应对方面得到一些正面的磨练，我就很幸运了。
But whereas with fitness, resistance training, running, I love resistance training and running.
But whereas with fitness, resistance training, running, I love resistance training and running.
The cup of coffee before my workout tastes 10 times better because I'm going to work out.
锻炼前的一杯咖啡味道好十倍，因为我要去锻炼。
I love to use it as an opportunity to listen to music, listen to podcasts.
I love to use it as an opportunity to listen to music, listen to podcasts.
There's so much that's in and around it that's still just pure pleasure.
There's so much that's in and around it that's still just pure pleasure.
Even on the days when I'm like, at 95% of output or 100% of output or 80% of output, I'm like, I just, I'm having so much fun.
即使在我的输出达到 95% 或 100% 或 80% 的日子里，我也会觉得，我只是，我玩得很开心。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's right.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：没错。
Andrew Huberman: And I can't wait to get back in there.
Andrew Huberman: And I can't wait to get back in there.
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So when we are looking at society, health, right, the first thing we argue, instead of saying what's most important, we say, what is it you want to do and who are your friends you're going to do it with and are you going to do it a lot?
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So when we are looking at society, health, right, the first thing we argue, instead of saying what's most important, we say, what is it you want to do and who are your friends you're going to do it with and are you going to do it a lot?
Let's start there.
让我们从这里开始吧。
Then we can start to weasel into everything, especially with social isolation, with sort of lack of community.
然后我们就可以开始狡猾地对待所有事情，尤其是在社会孤立、缺乏社区的情况下。
I mean, I feel like sport is the last place where people congregate, right?
我的意思是，我觉得体育运动是人们聚集的最后一个地方，对吧？
Sports sidelines.
体育场边。
This is the sort of, you know, lingua franca of the whole, you know, world.
这是整个世界的通用语言。
I've taught on every continent except Antarctica.
我在除南极洲以外的每个大陆上任教。
Everyone knows what a push-up is, everyone knows what a deadlift is.
Everyone knows what a push-up is, everyone knows what a deadlift is.
It's not science, sorry, it's not math.
这不是科学，对不起，这不是数学。
That's not the universal language.
那不是通用语言。
It is bench press.
这是卧推。
Everyone knows.
每个人都知道。
And everyone can tell you how much you bench in any language.
And everyone can tell you how much you bench in any language.
So there are some things there that are universal.
所以有些东西是普遍存在的。
And I think when we look at the human as a moving organism, then we can really start to not feel crazy about how our world is changing.
我认为，当我们将人类视为一个移动的有机体时，我们就可以真正开始不对我们的世界正在发生的变化感到疯狂。
But how do we fight back?
但我们该如何反击呢？
By setting up more opportunity to move more.
通过设置更多的机会来进行更多的活动。
And for me, the whole lens ends up being basically as, we're trying to parse through complex problems.
对我来说，整个镜头最终基本上是，我们试图解析复杂的问题。
So I have a world champion who's injured, two-time world champion, isn't able to finish a tour.
所以我有一位受伤的世界冠军，两届世界冠军，无法完成巡回赛。
You know, the first question I ask them is, tell me about your sleep.
你知道，我问他们的第一个问题是，告诉我你的睡眠情况。
I'm a rough sleeper.
我是一个睡眠不好的人。
Oh, tell me more about that.
哦，告诉我更多相关信息。
Right?
正确的？
Because I can't even tell your inputs and outputs unless we're getting to sleep.
Because I can't even tell your inputs and outputs unless we're getting to sleep.
Then I say, well, tell me about your nutrition.
然后我说，好吧，告诉我你的营养情况。
I eat clean.
我吃得很干净。
Great.
伟大的。
Define that for me.
为我定义一下。
I don't even know what that means.
我什至不知道这意味着什么。
Clean.
干净的。
Turns out under calorie, under nutrition doesn't get enough macros, doesn't get enough micros.
事实证明，在卡路里和营养不足的情况下，没有获得足够的宏量，也没有获得足够的微量。
I'm like, oh, we start to correct that.
我想，哦，我们开始纠正这个问题。
We start to collect sleep.
我们开始收集睡眠。
When we really start to divide some of the behaviors into, for me, as a 51-year-old, I'm obsessed with my tissues, not failing.
当我们真正开始将一些行为划分为，对我来说，作为一个 51 岁的人，我对我的组织很着迷，而不是失败。
Like tearing Achilles is like every physical therapist's worst nightmare.
就像撕裂跟腱一样是每个理疗师最可怕的噩梦。
And I jump rope every day and I have great range.
我每天都跳绳，而且跳绳范围很大。
I do so many isometrics.
我做了很多等轴测图。
I'm just not going to tear my Achilles.
我只是不会撕裂我的跟腱。
Now I'm going to tear my Achilles — but I'm not going to tear my Achilles.
现在我要撕裂我的跟腱——但我不会撕裂我的跟腱。
So tissue health is part of that.
所以组织健康是其中的一部分。
So now I have to look at nutrition, I have to look at my blood work and I have to look at my sleep so that I can really define some of those things as that creates a readiness, tissue, talent, tolerance, health.
So now I have to look at nutrition, I have to look at my blood work and I have to look at my sleep so that I can really define some of those things as that creates a readiness, tissue, talent, tolerance, health.
Then I can be looking at the other things.
然后我就可以看看其他的事情了。
And that's really as we start to get again.
这确实是我们开始再次遇到的情况。
The framework of sport, or framework of play creates this place where I can suddenly start to understand inputs and outputs and how to take care of this carcass so that I can do what I want with my body, which is our new definition of mobility.
运动的框架，或者游戏的框架创造了一个地方，在这里我可以突然开始理解输入和输出，以及如何照顾这个尸体，这样我就可以用我的身体做我想做的事，这是我们对流动性的新定义。
Can I do what I want with my body and can I be pain free?
我可以用我的身体做我想做的事吗？我可以没有疼痛吗？
Andrew Huberman: Am I correct in my very nonscientific assessment of Instagram accounts whereby when I see a 80-to-100-year-old person moving, well, that person tends to be doing something sort of gymnastics related.
Andrew Huberman: Am I correct in my very nonscientific assessment of Instagram accounts whereby when I see a 80-to-100-year-old person moving, well, that person tends to be doing something sort of gymnastics related.
There's this incredible video of a guy, a Chinese guy, very tall Chinese guy, doing essentially skin the cat and then into a pull-up skin the cat, people can look it up, doesn't involve actual cats.
There's this incredible video of a guy, a Chinese guy, very tall Chinese guy, doing essentially skin the cat and then into a pull-up skin the cat, people can look it up, doesn't involve actual cats.
Hopefully it shouldn't.
希望它不应该。
Eighty-five-year-old woman sprinting.
八十五岁老妇短跑。
So we're talking gymnastics-type movement, Sprinting movement, rarely.
所以我们很少谈论体操类型的运动、短跑运动。
Sometimes it'll be somebody in a gym lifting a heavy weight, but more often than not it's gymnastic-type movement, pull-up, dip, parallel bar, balance beam, sprinting.
Sometimes it'll be somebody in a gym lifting a heavy weight, but more often than not it's gymnastic-type movement, pull-up, dip, parallel bar, balance beam, sprinting.
Is that what got them there or is that just the expression of what genetics do?
这是他们到达那里的原因还是这只是遗传学的表现？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Genetics, do they feel safe.
Kelly Starrett 博士：遗传学，他们感到安全吗？
Show me nutrition, show me their training age.
显示营养情况，显示他们的训练年龄。
But what's not noticeable there is that we have disciplines that require greater range of motion and skill, body control and high power output.
但不引人注目的是，我们有需要更大范围的运动和技能、身体控制和高功率输出的学科。
Right?
正确的？
So one of the things that we do in our programming for adults is I make you sprint once a week, like sprint, because people have not sprinted.
因此，我们在成人编程中所做的一件事是，我让你每周冲刺一次，就像冲刺一样，因为人们还没有冲刺。
And I don't mean you can go out and run, I don't think you're capable of that.
我并不是说你可以出去跑步，我不认为你有能力做到这一点。
But I'm gonna put you on a bike, I'm gonna put you in control and I'm gonna see what your peak wattage is that sprinting.
但我会让你骑上自行车，让你掌控一切，然后看看你冲刺时的峰值瓦数是多少。
So ideally I would love you to be able to do some hill sprints and repeats, but I don't think you have the tissue tolerance or the range of emotion for that.
So ideally I would love you to be able to do some hill sprints and repeats, but I don't think you have the tissue tolerance or the range of emotion for that.
And I know what the outcome is going to be.
我知道结果会是什么。
But I can put you on a bike and say, can we hit this peak wattage?
但我可以让你骑上自行车问，我们能达到这个峰值瓦数吗？
And what you just discovered there was, hey, I still need to maintain my ability to move quickly and have control through great ranges of motion.
And what you just discovered there was, hey, I still need to maintain my ability to move quickly and have control through great ranges of motion.
That is a recipe for, you know, why if you did yoga and did some sprints, you're going to be pretty badass.
这就是一个秘诀，你知道，为什么如果你做了瑜伽并做了一些短跑，你就会变得非常厉害。
You know, that's a pretty good way.
你知道，这是一个非常好的方法。
Andrew Huberman: And why people who just do the elliptical and the little, small dumbbells are, they're fooling themselves.
安德鲁·休伯曼：为什么那些只做椭圆机和小哑铃的人是在欺骗自己。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: It's a lot of busy work.
Kelly Starrett 博士：工作非常繁忙。
There's a lot of busy work out there.
那里有很多忙碌的工作。
It makes people feel like they're involved in a program and again, the way we want to take our feelings out of it.
它让人们感觉自己参与了一个项目，这也是我们想要从中消除感情的方式。
How do you progress those pink dumbbells?
你如何进步那些粉红色的哑铃？
A thousand reps, is 2000 reps, right?
一千次，就是 2000 次，对吗？
Show me progression.
让我看看进展。
Suddenly I can't progress and regress those things.
突然之间，我无法在这些事情上进步和倒退。
The other thing I want to say is like, is it making the thing better?
我想说的另一件事是，它会让事情变得更好吗？
What are we training for?
我们训练是为了什么？
And you know, I think it feels decorative to have busy work.
你知道，我认为忙碌的工作让人感觉很装饰。
And I do all this prehab corrective exercise.
我做了所有这些预习矫正练习。
I'm like, hold up, why don't we do the thing we're doing and regress and progress that and ask if you have native range of motion.
我想，等等，我们为什么不做我们正在做的事情，然后回归并进步，然后问你是否有自然的运动范围。
Yes or no?
是还是不是？
But you know, if we look at the typical person, especially someone listening to this podcast, they don't have two hours in the gym.
但你知道，如果我们看看典型的人，尤其是听这个播客的人，他们在健身房里的时间不到两个小时。
So if your program is requiring two hours of me, I'm out.
所以，如果你的项目需要我花两个小时，我就退出了。
If it requires an hour of me, I might be out.
如果需要我一个小时，我可能会出去。
You know, I'm so busy that sometimes I need lots of 30- and 40-minute pieces peppered throughout, plus a lot of other play, and that's good enough.
You know, I'm so busy that sometimes I need lots of 30- and 40-minute pieces peppered throughout, plus a lot of other play, and that's good enough.
So we really do need to look at how people are finding themselves in their environments to ask, is this appropriate for you and what's essential?
因此，我们确实需要了解人们如何在自己的环境中找到自己，并询问这是否适合您以及什么是必要的？
And it turns out a lot of this, you know, 20-something playing around videoing yourself in the gym is great when you have three or four hours in the gym.
And it turns out a lot of this, you know, 20-something playing around videoing yourself in the gym is great when you have three or four hours in the gym.
Andrew Huberman: Yeah.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。
Listening to an entire album or podcast or book chapters in sequence I think is, if I may, far more valuable than allowing oneself the opportunity to text and be on social media during a workout, because it just becomes a very distracted thing.
如果可以的话，我认为按顺序听整张专辑或播客或书籍章节比在锻炼期间让自己有机会发短信和使用社交媒体更有价值，因为这只会变得非常分散注意力。
I think the workout of any kind is also an opportunity for building concentration.
我认为任何形式的锻炼也是增强注意力的机会。
And one can listen to podcasts or books, etc., etc., or an album sequentially through.
人们可以依次收听播客或书籍等，或者一张专辑。
But I find, at least for myself, if I work out in a way that's interrupted by social media or texting or email, because it's available there, that it carries through into the rest of the day, that I'm more distracted.
但我发现，至少对我自己来说，如果我的锻炼方式被社交媒体、短信或电子邮件打断，因为这些信息都可以存在，并且会持续到一天中剩下的时间，我就会更加分心。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I believe you.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我相信你。
Andrew Huberman: How about that?
安德鲁·休伯曼：那怎么样？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I believe you.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我相信你。
And that's what's so great, is you're like, hey, that doesn't work for me.
这就是最棒的事情，你会说，嘿，这对我不起作用。
You know, I find that my best thinking is done under enormous aerobic load.
你知道，我发现我最好的思考是在巨大的有氧负荷下完成的。
Like I literally am like, oh, and I often will jump up and write something on the whiteboard and then go back and do my thing because, you know, I just.
就像我字面意思一样，哦，我经常会跳起来在白板上写一些东西，然后回去做我的事情，因为，你知道，我只是。
It creates flow state and it's...
它创造了流动状态，它是......
and if I'm distracted, I can't really hear what's going on.
如果我分心，我就听不清发生了什么。
And that's...
那就是...
there's a time when I want to distract myself, you know, and there's a time when I want to be amused.
你知道，有时我想分散自己的注意力，有时我想被逗乐。
That's fine.
没关系。
You know, I've got to do a two-hour ride.
你知道，我得骑两个小时的车。
I'm getting ready for a four-day backcountry ski trip here in February.
我正准备二月份在这里进行为期四天的野外滑雪之旅。
But notice I've already been getting ready for it in the beginning of November.
但请注意，我在十一月初就已经做好了准备。
I am ready.
我已经准备好了。
It's taking me gonna ramp up.
这需要我全力以赴。
And so much of my training now is going towards can I successfully do these four hard days the way I want to.
我现在的大部分训练都是为了我能否以我想要的方式成功地度过这四天的艰难时光。
So some things come down a little bit.
所以有些事情会下降一点。
Strength dials down.
力量下降。
I change my body composition.
我改变我的身体成分。
I'd like to be a little bit lighter.
我想变得轻一点。
I'm playing, but there's some times where I have to get two and three hours in of steady work done.
我在玩，但有时我必须稳定地完成两三个小时的工作。
And I'm like, headphones, you know what I mean?
我说，耳机，你知道我的意思吗？
So it's okay to be amused.
所以被逗乐也没关系。
You don't have to be a monk doing what you're doing.
你不必成为一个和尚才能做你正在做的事情。
But I really like what you said.
但我真的很喜欢你说的。
Feels.
感觉。
I feel distracted.
我感觉心烦意乱。
Yeah.
是的。
Let's use this as, let's use it as a concentration time.
让我们用它作为集中时间。
Right.
正确的。
Let's use this interaction time.
让我们利用这个互动时间。
The gym shouldn't be the loneliest place in the world.
健身房不应该是世界上最孤独的地方。
If you're not making eye contact and talking, high-fiving, get a different gym.
如果你们没有眼神交流、说话、击掌，那就去另一个健身房。
Andrew Huberman: I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about fascia.
Andrew Huberman：如果我没有问你有关筋膜的问题，那就是我的失职。
You and Jill Miller were some of the first people that I ever heard talk about fascia in an elaborate way, in a way that allowed me to finally understand what this incredible aspect of our physiology, the many things that it's doing.
你和吉尔·米勒是我听过的第一批以详尽的方式谈论筋膜的人，这种方式让我最终理解了我们生理学的这个令人难以置信的方面，以及它正在做的许多事情。
I realize this is a vast discussion that we could take several more hours.
我意识到这是一个巨大的讨论，我们可能还需要几个小时。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: But you're not a fascia researcher.
Kelly Starrett 博士：但你不是筋膜研究员。
Andrew Huberman: Right.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对。
And yet I think, as I recall, you're one of the first people to talk about, you know, the relationship, telling people that there's fascia, that we have this thing called fascia, clearly an important part of our physiology, our ability to move.
但我认为，正如我所记得的，你是第一批谈论这种关系的人之一，告诉人们有筋膜，我们有一种叫做筋膜的东西，它显然是我们生理学和运动能力的重要组成部分。
To what extent you think that "tight fascia," I'm probably offending many people in this moment.
你认为“筋膜紧”到什么程度，我此刻可能冒犯了很多人。
Tight fascia restricts our movement and that working on fascial release or maneuvering, mobilization, thank you, can allow us to move better, maybe better posture, maybe even feel better.
紧绷的筋膜限制了我们的运动，而进行筋膜释放或操纵、动员，谢谢，可以让我们更好地运动，也许更好的姿势，甚至可能感觉更好。
There are a lot of theories, some probably wrong, some probably right, about what fascia can and can't do for us.
关于筋膜能为我们做什么和不能做什么，有很多理论，有些可能是错误的，有些可能是正确的。
But what are some things about fascia that you find particularly interesting that you'd like to pass along?
但是，关于筋膜，您觉得有哪些特别有趣并且想要分享的内容呢？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I think what we should do is if you pull fascia out of the human movement equation, the human doesn't.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我认为我们应该做的是，如果你把筋膜从人体运动方程中剔除，而人类却没有。
It fails to stop moving.
它无法停止移动。
Andrew Huberman: Right.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So the recent, like we've just discovered fascia, right?
Kelly Starrett 博士：最近，就像我们刚刚发现筋膜一样，对吗？
That's not really entirely true.
这并不完全正确。
There's a really like 20-year-old set of videos by a guy who's, he describes himself as a somanaut.
有一个非常像 20 岁的人制作的视频，他将自己描述为一名索马航人。
His name's Gil Hedley and he did these live dissections on YouTube.
他的名字叫 Gil Hedley，他在 YouTube 上进行了这些现场解剖。
I don't even know if he's still there, but he basically did all of this gross anatomy for free on the internet.
我什至不知道他是否还在那里，但他基本上在互联网上免费完成了所有这些大体解剖。
And he describes...
他描述...
one of the first people to really describe fascia as this sort of incredible connective tissue network that envelops, wraps, stores energy, communicates, is tensionality.
第一个真正将筋膜描述为这种令人难以置信的结缔组织网络的人之一就是张力。
In full disclosure, I went to school in Boulder and I may have dated a girl who went to Rolfing school and was a Rolfer.
坦白说，我在博尔德上学，我可能和一个在罗尔芬学校上学的女孩约会过，而且她是罗尔夫人。
And Ida Rolf was one of the first people to really talk about how we can mobilize fascia with touch.
艾达·罗尔夫 (Ida Rolf) 是最早真正谈论如何通过触摸来调动筋膜的人之一。
So I was introduced to fascia in the 90s when I had Rolfing done on me.
因此，在 90 年代我接受 Rolfing 治疗时，我就开始接触筋膜了。
So when I'm trying to help someone think about pain or restore position and this is overly gross, but it'll create a framework for people, we ask, is this an environmental problem?
因此，当我试图帮助某人思考疼痛或恢复位置时，这过于粗俗，但它会为人们创建一个框架，我们会问，这是一个环境问题吗？
Are you poorly hydrated because your tissues need to be hydrated to slide?
您的水分是否不足，因为您的组织需要补充水分才能滑动？
Are you inflamed?
你发炎了吗？
Like, that's why we talk about nutrition and we talk about sleep.
就像，这就是我们谈论营养和睡眠的原因。
Okay, so we have this environmental piece.
好的，我们有这个环境部分。
Then I often will say, hey, do we have just a movement problem?
然后我经常会说，嘿，我们只是有运动问题吗？
Do you just have crappy technique?
难道你技术太差了？
Like let's fix the technique first.
就像让我们先修复技术一样。
Let's get you moving to the highest expression of the movement first.
让我们首先让您达到运动的最高表达。
Hey, turn your foot straighter.
嘿，把你的脚伸直。
Let's, let's, let's recentrate that joint.
让我们重新审视一下这个关节。
Can we, can we have a better organization?
我们能不能有一个更好的组织？
Then we start to say, because sometimes it's just a moving problem, just you needed some cueing.
然后我们开始说，因为有时这只是一个移动问题，只是你需要一些提示。
We say, is this a joint capsule problem?
我们说，这是关节囊的问题吗？
Because of capsular stiffness, the joint capsule is a bag of connective tissue that surrounds all your joints and it can account for huge chunks of your range of motion limitation.
由于关节囊僵硬，关节囊是一袋结缔组织，包围着您的所有关节，它可以解释您运动范围的很大一部分限制。
So a lot of what we do is we, after we try to mobilize the joint tissue.
所以我们所做的很多事情都是在我们尝试动员关节组织之后。
And again, that's my own bias.
再说一遍，这是我自己的偏见。
The way I was trained as an Australian-trained manual therapist, this Maitland school.
我在梅特兰学校接受澳大利亚徒手治疗师培训的方式。
Then we say, well, is this just a good old-fashioned muscle restriction?
然后我们说，好吧，这只是一种很好的老式肌肉限制吗？
And we call it muscle dynamics because that includes high tone, stress, fear.
我们称之为肌肉动力学，因为它包括高张力、压力和恐惧。
But trigger points are a well-documented phenomenon.
但触发点是一种有据可查的现象。
Muscles get stiff, they become fibrotic.
肌肉变得僵硬，纤维化。
Right.
正确的。
You could have high tone trying to protect you, all those reasons, but that still can limit your range of motion.
由于所有这些原因，您可能会发出高声调试图保护您，但这仍然会限制您的运动范围。
And lastly, we say sliding surfaces.
最后，我们说滑动表面。
So instead of kind of talking about all the different layers of dermis and skin and fascia, we say, do the things that slide should?
因此，我们不是谈论真皮、皮肤和筋膜的所有不同层，而是说，滑动的东西应该做什么？
Are they sliding?
他们在滑动吗？
So if you grab your skin on your forehead, it should slide in all the directions.
因此，如果你抓住额头上的皮肤，它应该会向各个方向滑动。
Notice that the skin should slide all the directions over your tendons.
请注意，皮肤应在肌腱上向各个方向滑动。
Right.
正确的。
If I grab your typical person's Achilles and grab the skin over the Achilles, it doesn't budge.
如果我抓住典型人的跟腱并抓住跟腱上的皮肤，它不会移动。
It's like to have an exoskeleton that's that fascial kind of compartment.
这就像有一个外骨骼，就是筋膜类型的隔室。
And it's seized, it's adhered, it's bound to the underlying surfaces, which creates tissue restriction and higher tension.
它被抓住、粘附、绑定到下面的表面，从而产生组织限制和更高的张力。
So when we're mobilizing these tissues, we're trying to keep tissues sliding and gliding.
因此，当我们动员这些组织时，我们会努力保持组织滑动。
That's an easy way of thinking about it.
这是一种简单的思考方式。
Nerves have to run through nerve tunnels.
神经必须穿过神经隧道。
Taking huge breaths keeps all of those, you know, aspects of your trunk moving.
深呼吸可以让躯干的所有方面保持活动。
And we just need to be thinking in like a systems approach.
我们只需要像系统方法一样思考。
So sometimes if you went and saw an ART practitioner and it didn't solve your problem--
所以有时候，如果你去看了 ART 治疗师，但它并没有解决你的问题——
Andrew Huberman: --this is Active Release Therapy?
Andrew Huberman：——这是主动释放疗法？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的。
Andrew Huberman: Okay.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: It may not have been a fascial problem.
Kelly Starrett 医生：这可能不是筋膜问题。
Right.
正确的。
If you went and saw someone who only worked on the muscles, it may not have been a muscle problem.
如果你去看某人只锻炼肌肉，那可能不是肌肉问题。
If you went and saw a chiropractor and they worked on your, on your joint structures, right?
如果你去看了脊椎按摩师，他们对你的关节结构进行了治疗，对吗？
Or a good physio, it may not be a joint restriction problem.
或者好的理疗师，可能不是关节限制的问题。
If you saw a coach and they couldn't cue you out of it, it may not have been a...
如果你看到教练并且他们无法提示你退出，那可能不是......
so what we need to do is we recognize that if more squats just solved all the problems, wouldn't we have solved all the problems if rolling on a roller had solved all the problems?
所以我们需要做的是我们认识到，如果更多的深蹲就能解决所有的问题，那么如果在滚筒上滚动就可以解决所有的问题，我们不是也解决了所有的问题吗？
Seems like we would have solved all the problems.
看来我们已经解决了所有问题。
So I think what ends up happening is we want to put fascia equally as an important part of the system, and one of the ways that we can directly impact that in a free way at home is to begin a conversation of just some simple myofascial mobilization.
所以我认为最终发生的事情是我们希望将筋膜平等地作为系统的重要组成部分，而我们可以在家中以自由的方式直接影响这一点的方法之一就是开始一些简单的肌筋膜动员的对话。
In fact, myofascial means muscle fascial, but there are osteofascial connections.
其实肌筋膜就是指肌肉筋膜，但也有骨筋膜的联系。
Does the fascia glide over the bone there?
筋膜是否在骨头上滑动？
Right.
正确的。
We can look at the tendonous fascial connections.
我们可以观察肌腱筋膜连接。
And again, do these tissues slide and glide the way they're supposed to slide and glide?
再说一次，这些组织是否按照它们应该的方式滑动？
And that's a much easier way to look at it.
这是一种更简单的看待它的方式。
And then I'm going to test and retest.
然后我将进行测试和重新测试。
Not with subjective pain, but how is your range of motion and access to your range of motion?
不是主观疼痛，而是您的活动范围和活动范围如何？
Andrew Huberman: Thank you for that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢你。
I've wanted to try Rolfing for a long time.
我很早就想尝试 Rolfing 了。
And then a friend of mine who's a former Seal team operator told me that at some point during the Rolfing that he received that they put a glove on and went up his nostril and did some fascial release, excuse me, on the inside of his nose and quote, it was the most painful experience he ever had.
然后我的一位前海豹突击队操作员朋友告诉我，在罗尔芬期间的某个时刻，他收到了他们戴上手套并伸进他的鼻孔并做了一些筋膜释放，请原谅，在他的鼻子内侧并引述，这是他经历过的最痛苦的经历。
And I was, like, all right, well, I--
我当时，好吧，好吧，我——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --I don't know if you know anyone in Naval Special Warfare, but they're so soft.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——我不知道你是否认识海军特种作战部门的人，但他们都很软弱。
Andrew Huberman: They're so soft, right?
Andrew Huberman：它们很软，对吧？
I didn't say that.
我没那么说。
Kelly said that.
凯利这么说。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: You know who you are, my friends.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我的朋友们，你们知道自己是谁。
Andrew Huberman: But you know, that I confess, you know, it's not like I avoid pain at all costs, but that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：但是你知道，我承认，我并不是不惜一切代价避免痛苦，而是那样。
That made me think that I might not want to do Rolfing.
这让我觉得我可能不想演罗尔芬。
I also don't want someone putting their finger up my nose.
我也不希望有人把手指放在我的鼻子上。
So I'm assuming that I could say, hey, I want to try Rolfing, and I don't need to get, because you hear this stuff like, oh, you know, there's all this emotional release, which, you know, there are other ways to get that.
所以我假设我可以说，嘿，我想尝试 Rolfing，但我不需要得到，因为你听到这样的东西，哦，你知道，有所有这些情感释放，你知道，还有其他方法可以得到它。
I guess, is it always painful is the question?
我想，问题总是痛苦吗？
Does it need to be painful?
有必要痛苦吗？
His statement is pretty simple.
他的说法非常简单。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So let's pull Rolfing outside, because I'm not a Rolfer.
Kelly Starrett 博士：所以我们把 Rolfing 拉到外面吧，因为我不是 Rolfing。
But let's just say that mobilizing your tissues doesn't have to be painful.
但我们只能说，活动组织并不一定会很痛苦。
In fact, it's likely that you'll experience some discomfort.
事实上，您可能会感到一些不适。
But let's talk about a couple guideposts for you.
但让我们为您谈谈一些指南。
Number one, you always have to be able to take a full breath, right?
第一，你总是必须能够深呼吸，对吧？
So if I'm mobilizing you or you're mobilizing yourself and you suddenly stop breathing, you're going too deep.
因此，如果我在动员你，或者你在动员自己，而你突然停止了呼吸，那么你就陷得太深了。
So an easy way for you is to say, hey, do I have, can I breathe here?
所以对你来说一个简单的方法就是说，嘿，我可以在这里呼吸吗？
Number two, I like to have volitional contraction.
第二，我喜欢有意识的收缩。
So if I'm mobilizing someone or someone's doing something, I should be able to flex them out.
因此，如果我要动员某人或某人做某事，我应该能够让他们发挥作用。
I should have control over that.
我应该对此有控制权。
If the pain or depth or pressure is putting too much load on the system, where I literally lose neuromuscular control, what am I doing, right?
如果疼痛、深度或压力给系统带来了太大的负担，我实际上失去了神经肌肉控制，我在做什么，对吗？
And then, you know, those two pieces, can I take a breath here?
然后，你知道，那两块，我可以在这里喘口气吗？
Do I have control here?
我在这里有控制权吗？
Those go a long way to keeping me in the bounds.
这些对于让我保持在界限中大有帮助。
And then we tend to not work on a tissue longer than five minutes just because I want to get the rest of it tomorrow.
然后，我们处理纸巾的时间往往不会超过五分钟，只是因为我想明天拿到剩下的纸巾。
And if you give me 10 minutes of work, that's incredible.
如果你给我 10 分钟的时间，那就太不可思议了。
We like to put the soft tissue work before we go to bed.
我们喜欢在睡觉前进行软组织锻炼。
And what we found was that we had better adherence.
我们发现我们的依从性更好。
No one's doing anything productive in the 10 minutes before they go to the bedroom.
没有人在去卧室之前的十分钟内做任何有成效的事情。
Number two, like a child, when you put a child to bed, you're like, first we take a bath, then we read the book and then we go to bed, right?
第二，就像一个孩子，当你让孩子上床睡觉时，你会说，我们先洗澡，然后看书，然后上床睡觉，对吗？
Your brain is like, I know what comes next.
你的大脑就像，我知道接下来会发生什么。
So if you do this rolling or on your...
所以如果你滚动或在你的...
some soft tissue work, self-massage, you are training your brain to know what comes next.
一些软组织工作，自我按摩，你正在训练你的大脑知道接下来会发生什么。
We find that when people have engaged in massage or self-massage, they don't stand up and want to fight anyone.
我们发现，当人们进行按摩或自我按摩时，他们不会站起来并想与任何人打架。
They're very relaxed.
他们非常放松。
If you've ever gone to a spa and had a massage, you don't go out and snatch or get into a fight afterwards.
如果你曾经去过水疗中心并享受过按摩，之后你就不会出去抢夺或打架。
You're so chill, bro.
你真冷静，兄弟。
So we found a great way to, as Jill Miller says, switch on the off switch.
所以我们找到了一个很好的方法，正如吉尔·米勒所说，打开关闭开关。
That's a beautiful way of talking about that.
这是一个很好的谈论方式。
How do I tell myself to shift out of this, you know, fight-or-flight into coming down.
我如何告诉自己摆脱这种“战斗或逃跑”状态，转而下降。
Five minutes per body part.
每个身体部位五分钟。
Start anywhere on the leg, start anywhere stiff.
从腿上的任何地方开始，从僵硬的地方开始。
What's asking?
在问什么？
Can I breathe?
我可以呼吸吗？
Can I contract?
我可以签约吗？
You're going to see that that's a really simple way to start getting the same input and not all your tissues are the same.
您会发现这是一种非常简单的方法来开始获得相同的输入，并且并非所有组织都是相同的。
If you come to me with knee pain, I'm going to want to be able to look at your range, your positions.
如果你带着膝盖疼痛来找我，我会想看看你的范围、你的位置。
But I'm also going to want to be able to stay on your quads.
但我也希望能够留在你的四轮驱动车上。
I mean my full body weight.
我的意思是我的全身重量。
And if you can't take that, I'm calling that incomplete.
如果你不能接受，我就说这是不完整的。
And those people out there who are going to be like, whoa, that's heavy duty.
那些人会说，哇，这任务太重了。
You have not worked with my population who have monster thighs on are thick and fibrotic and it takes real weight.
你没有和我的人一起工作过，他们的大腿很粗，纤维化，而且需要真正的重量。
So we all have different sensitivities.
所以我们都有不同的敏感性。
But if I respect your ability to take a breath and contract, then all of a sudden we're upregulating.
但如果我尊重你呼吸和收缩的能力，那么突然间我们就会上调。
What I recommend is you go to Thailand, you get a Thai massage from a 65-year-old master woman who weighs 109 pounds and when she is working on your quads and you tap out and she's like, no, I'm not done here.
我建议你去泰国，你可以从一位 65 岁、体重 109 磅的老太太那里得到泰式按摩，当她在锻炼你的股四头肌时，你敲敲门，她会说，不，我还没结束。
If you felt your quads, you're going to realize how low the bar is.
如果你感觉到你的股四头肌，你就会意识到门槛有多低。
Andrew Huberman: All right.
安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。
Heat and cold.
热和冷。
You were one of the first people that told me, hey listen, cold's great.
你是第一批告诉我的人之一，嘿听着，寒冷很棒。
Cold plunges, cold showers are great for shifting your state, for resilience training.
冷水浴、冷水淋浴非常适合改变你的状态，进行恢复能力训练。
It's fun.
很有趣。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I swam with Laird's pool this morning.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：今天早上我在莱尔德的游泳池里游泳。
Did the breath hold, cold laps.
呼吸是否屏住了，冷了几圈。
It's fun.
很有趣。
I'm gonna put in quotation marks.
我要加上引号。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, it's, sometimes it's type 2 fun.
Andrew Huberman：是的，有时这是第 2 类乐趣。
It definitely will shift one's state for many hours afterwards for reasons we now understand.
由于我们现在已经了解的原因，它肯定会在之后的几个小时内改变一个人的状态。
But you were one of the first people to point out to me that for injuries oftentimes it's better to perfuse the tissue and that heat sometimes perhaps is the more favorable tool if you had to pick one.
但你是第一批向我指出对于损伤来说最好是灌注组织的人之一，如果你必须选择一种工具，加热有时可能是更有利的工具。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's right.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：没错。
So what you, I think, have even talked about that.
我认为您甚至已经谈到过这一点。
There is research to show that cold water immersion can attenuate training effects.
有研究表明，冷水浸泡会减弱训练效果。
Andrew Huberman: If done in the six to eight hours after hypertrophy and strength training because of its potent anti-inflammatory properties, prevent some of the inflammation that would prompt the adaptation response.
Andrew Huberman：如果在肌肥大和力量训练后六到八小时内进行，因为它具有强大的抗炎特性，可以防止一些会促进适应反应的炎症。
And put simply, if your goal is bigger muscles and getting stronger, don't do immersion-based deliberate cold exposure in the six to eight hours after your training, fine to do it on other days, fine to do it beforehand.
简而言之，如果您的目标是锻炼更大的肌肉并变得更强壮，请不要在训练后六到八小时内进行基于浸泡的刻意冷暴露，可以在其他日子进行，也可以提前进行。
In fact, athletes at Stanford do that on the basis of a lot of work from Craig Heller and others — fine to not do it at all if you don't want to do it again.
事实上，斯坦福大学的运动员在克雷格·海勒和其他人的大量工作的基础上做到了这一点——如果你不想再这样做的话，根本不做也很好。
I'm not going to die on the sword of cold plunging, but it can attenuate or even prevent those adaptations.
我不会死在寒冷的剑下，但它可以减弱甚至阻止这些适应。
But at other times it's a great tool for reducing inflammation, shifting one's mental and physical state in the great direction.
但在其他时候，它是减少炎症、向好的方向改变一个人的精神和身体状态的好工具。
Look, it always sucks to get in the thing.
听着，参与其中总是很糟糕。
The whole point is you feel much better when you get out than you did before you ever got in.
重点是，当你出去时，你会感觉比进来之前好多了。
That's the simplest way to put it.
这是最简单的说法。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I'm a middle-aged guy, a guy who wants to be the best middle-aged mountain biker in my neighborhood.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我是一个中年人，一个想成为我附近最好的中年山地自行车手的人。
Is my timing of my plunge going to affect my ability to be that mediocre athlete?
我的跳水时机是否会影响我成为平庸运动员的能力？
No. So stop it.
不，所以停止吧。
People are like, when's the optimal time?
人们会问，最佳时间是什么时候？
I'm like, when's it work for you?
我想，你什么时候有用？
Does it work first thing in the morning?
它是早上第一件事吗？
Juliet found that if she got hot and plunged it in the night, she was like woken up and fired up and ready.
朱丽叶发现，如果她感到热并在夜间投入其中，她就会像醒来一样充满活力并做好准备。
She's like, I'm not going to sleep now.
她说，我现在不打算睡觉。
And I get hot and cold, hot and cold and it's like someone hits the emergency break, right?
我会忽冷忽热，忽冷忽热，就像有人紧急休息一样，对吧？
So first of all, when's it work for you?
首先，什么时候对你有用？
Second of all, if there is a performance concern, we try to put it as far away from training as we can.
其次，如果存在性能问题，我们会尽量远离训练。
That's what we say.
这就是我们所说的。
Training in the evening, plunge before.
晚上训练，之前跳水。
If you like, you've trained in the morning, plunge in the evening, like get cold.
如果你愿意的话，你可以在早上训练，晚上投入训练，就像感冒一样。
That's cool.
这很酷。
But what you hinted at is the same reasons why we don't ice injuries.
但你所暗示的与我们不冰敷伤病的原因是一样的。
Because it limits our body's ability to heal.
因为它限制了我们身体的治愈能力。
So it rate limits and it might do it by vasoconstriction.
因此它会限制速率，并且可能通过血管收缩来实现。
Your body, eventually your body is going to warm up anyway.
不管怎样，你的身体，最终你的身体都会变暖。
So one of the things we like to say is your body either heals at the rate of a human being or it heals slower.
所以我们想说的一件事是，你的身体要么以人类的速度愈合，要么愈合得更慢。
So there's no such thing as a fast healer.
所以不存在所谓的快速治愈者。
You're just, oh, you're really good at healing at the rate of human physiology.
你只是，哦，你真的很擅长以人类生理学的速度治愈。
And the rest of us are doing dumb things that are rate limiting our healing.
而我们其他人正在做一些愚蠢的事情，这些事情限制了我们的康复速度。
Nutrition, sleep.
营养，睡眠。
Right — when we are talking about anyone after surgery or injury, our bench mark in the line in the sand is eight hours of laying in bed without looking at your phone.
是的——当我们谈论手术或受伤后的任何人时，我们的标准是躺在床上八小时不看手机。
That's minimum.
这是最低限度。
And I don't care if you're sleeping because resting is the next best thing.
我不在乎你是否在睡觉，因为休息是第二好的事情。
But I can't actually understand inputs and outputs.
但我实际上无法理解输入和输出。
And let me be super clear, if you're trying to grow a body, learn a skill, change your body composition, get stronger, heal, that all rhymes with eight hours, we look at seven as our minimum.
让我非常明确的是，如果你想增强身体、学习技能、改变身体成分、变得更强、治愈，所有这些都与八小时押韵，我们将七小时视为最低限度。
And of course you're a human being, you're going to get by.
当然，你是一个人，你会度过难关。
I was stressed out last night, wanted to come onto this show with my friend Andrew and do a good job.
昨晚我压力很大，想和我的朋友安德鲁一起参加这个节目并做得很好。
Like, I didn't get great sleep, but I'm a human being, I'm still going to show up.
就像，我睡得不好，但我是一个人，我仍然会出现。
So what's nice then is we can start to say, okay, what can we control in terms of managing and upregulating, boosting, maximal healing rate for humans?
那么好的一点是我们可以开始说，好吧，在管理和上调、提高人类最大治愈率方面我们可以控制什么？
And it turns out cold water may not be the best.
事实证明冷水可能不是最好的。
Icing something might suppress prostaglandin release, right?
冰敷某些东西可能会抑制前列腺素的释放，对吗？
Which means that you can think of it as you have these circulating stem cells.
这意味着您可以将其视为拥有这些循环干细胞。
And again, sorry everyone, get that this is just very cursory.
再次，对不起大家，这只是非常粗略的。
And we need the chemical signalers from the injured damaged tissue to call those things to be.
我们需要来自受伤组织的化学信号来称呼这些东西。
But if I ice that and suppress that, some of those cells can go swinging on past.
但如果我冰冻它并抑制它，其中一些细胞就会过去。
There was a great study I saw million years ago and it looked at ibuprofen usage in Australian military tactical athletes who had bad ankle sprains.
我在数百万年前看到过一项很棒的研究，研究了脚踝严重扭伤的澳大利亚军事战术运动员使用布洛芬的情况。
And those athletes who were given ibuprofen, which does the same thing as ice, suppresses prostaglandin release, right?
那些服用布洛芬的运动员，其作用与冰块相同，会抑制前列腺素的释放，对吗？
Cuts off some of those chemical signals — were back faster than their counterparts who did not have the ibuprofen, but they had chronic ankle instability because they did not have a sufficient healing response because they had shut that healing response down.
切断其中一些化学信号——比没有服用布洛芬的同行恢复得更快，但他们患有慢性踝关节不稳定，因为他们没有足够的愈合反应，因为他们已经关闭了愈合反应。
So what we find is, look, your body will wait until it warms back up.
所以我们发现，看，你的身体会等到它回暖。
But if you think you're going to do angiogenesis and make new capillaries and modulate all these things by slapping a nonspecific ice pad for a nonspecific amount of time over a nonspecific tissue.
但是，如果您认为您要进行血管生成并制造新的毛细血管，并通过在非特定组织上拍打非特定冰垫一段非特定时间来调节所有这些东西。
You gotta be kidding me.
你一定是在开玩笑吧。
And so it's really Mickey Mouse.
所以这真的是米老鼠。
Does ice help for margaritas that are warm?
冰块对热玛格丽塔有帮助吗？
Yes.
是的。
Open heart surgery?
心脏直视手术？
Yes.
是的。
Right.
正确的。
Andrew Huberman: Waking you up in the morning.
安德鲁·休伯曼：早上叫醒你。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Waking you up in the morning.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：早上叫醒你。
Hey, I have a kid who needs a placebo.
嘿，我有一个孩子需要安慰剂。
I can numb that thing and give my kids some placebo ice.
我可以麻痹那东西，然后给我的孩子们一些安慰剂冰块。
That's great.
那太棒了。
Definitely can work for pain control because as soon as you're numb you can't feel anything.
绝对可以用于控制疼痛，因为一旦你麻木了，你就感觉不到任何东西了。
But what's going to happen when you pull that thing off?
但是当你把这件事完成后会发生什么呢？
We're going to come back.
我们会回来的。
So we have found that we have much better.
所以我们发现我们有更好的。
And again, since setting, instead of saying that's bad, we're turning out and saying we have so many better tools now to manage congestion because that's really what we're trying to do with ice and healing, is we're trying to stop swelling, right?
再说一遍，自从设置以来，我们并没有说这很糟糕，而是说我们现在有很多更好的工具来管理拥堵，因为这确实是我们试图用冰块和愈合来实现的，我们是在试图阻止肿胀，对吗？
But is swelling a mistake by the body?
但肿胀是身体的错误吗？
And the chances are it's not really a mistake.
而且很可能这并不是一个真正的错误。
Again, two and a half million years of evolution, this stuff's pretty awesome.
再说一遍，经过二十五十万年的进化，这玩意真是太棒了。
But what we know is failure to move and evacuate, that swelling is a problem.
但我们知道的是，无法移动和疏散，肿胀是一个问题。
So when we get people on nonfatiguing muscle contraction NMES devices like the H wave or something like that, we find that we can actually decongest and keep moving in controlled ways.
因此，当我们让人们使用非疲劳性肌肉收缩 NMES 设备（例如 H 波或类似设备）时，我们发现我们实际上可以缓解充血并以受控方式继续运动。
And we have much better clinical outcomes than we do if we ice.
而且我们的临床结果比冰敷要好得多。
Andrew Huberman: What about heating pads, Hot water bottles?
Andrew Huberman：加热垫、热水瓶怎么样？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Sauna.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：桑拿。
Andrew Huberman: Do you sit in the sauna?
安德鲁·休伯曼：你坐在桑拿房里吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yes, I do.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：是的，我愿意。
I love the sauna.
我喜欢桑拿。
Andrew Huberman: How often are you in the sauna?
安德鲁·胡伯曼：你多久去一次桑拿浴室？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Whenever I can.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士： 只要我能。
You know, and sometimes it's short sessions and sometimes it's super hot sessions, and sometimes I just get hot and cold a couple times.
你知道，有时训练时间很短，有时又非常热，有时我只是感到忽冷忽热。
And I try, like you said earlier, I'm not after some specific adaptation response.
我尝试，就像你之前说的，我并不追求某种特定的适应反应。
The sauna is a great way for us to chill and hang out.
桑拿是我们放松和闲逛的好方法。
And sometimes we're bored and we gotta make dinner or move on.
有时我们很无聊，我们必须做晚饭或继续前进。
So I, you know, I try to sauna.
所以我，你知道，我尝试桑拿。
If there's anything I do, I sauna a lot.
如果有什么我做的话，我会经常蒸桑拿。
Bigger the engine, the bigger the brakes, then it's for me, it's such a big brake.
发动机越大，刹车就越大，那么对我来说，它就是这么大的刹车。
Andrew Huberman: You mentioned Laird.
安德鲁·休伯曼：你提到了莱尔德。
I've seen Laird drag the assault bike into the sauna, something most people probably shouldn't do because they would, most people, die of hyperthermia, but--
我见过莱尔德把突击自行车拖进桑拿房，这是大多数人可能不应该做的事情，因为大多数人会死于高热，但是——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: --We call that Restrepo, it's the worst place on earth.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：——我们称之为雷斯特雷波，它是地球上最糟糕的地方。
Andrew Huberman: It's an interesting tool, though, the heat.
Andrew Huberman：不过，热量是一个有趣的工具。
I find that if I get the sauna uncomfortably hot and then force myself to breathe super slowly only through my nose so that I don't actually feel like a burning sensation on the inside of my nostrils, and I just do that for 10, 15 minutes, that it's wonderful stress-resilience training.
我发现，如果我把桑拿房弄得热得不舒服，然后强迫自己只通过鼻子非常缓慢地呼吸，这样我实际上就不会感觉到鼻孔内部有烧灼感，而且我只这样做 10、15 分钟，这就是很棒的抗压训练。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: How great is that?
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：那有多棒？
Andrew Huberman: But very different than the cold plunge where you can either muscle through it or distract yourself or whatever.
Andrew Huberman：但这与冷跳水非常不同，你可以通过它或分散自己的注意力或其他什么。
In the heat, you know, your heart rate's going up and there's this temptation to, like, to follow that heart rate toward a more elevated stress state.
你知道，在炎热的天气里，你的心率会上升，并且会有这种诱惑，比如跟随心率走向更高的压力状态。
And so I find that you can get very, very hot, obviously be, be safe about this, folks, but still maintain a lot of calm.
所以我发现你们可能会变得非常非常热，显然，对此要安全，伙计们，但仍然保持冷静。
And I think it's a wonderful tool, but you have to kind of work at it.
我认为这是一个很棒的工具，但你必须努力使用它。
And I enjoy this, by the way.
顺便说一句，我很喜欢这个。
So people are probably thinking, here you go again.
所以人们可能会想，又来了。
Like, why not just enjoy the sauna?
就像，为什么不享受桑拿呢？
But I like to listen to Gregorian chants or something in there and do this like, very, like how, how even and calm can I stay?
但我喜欢听格里高利圣歌或其中的其他东西，然后这样做，非常，就像我怎样才能保持平静和平静？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Oh, I love that.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：哦，我喜欢这个。
Andrew Huberman: At 215 or 220.
安德鲁·休伯曼：215 或 220。
And I wear the cap so those higher heats don't register to the brain.
我戴上帽子，这样大脑就不会感受到更高的热量。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: You will drive yourself out, eventually.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：最终你会把自己赶出去。
Your brain is going to...
你的大脑将会...
Just what's drives me out of the sauna now is I retch.
现在驱使我走出桑拿房的是我干呕。
I actually feel like I'm going to vomit because I've gotten so hot.
我真的感觉我要吐了，因为我太热了。
My brain stem is like, bro, you can just override.
我的脑干就像，兄弟，你可以覆盖。
So I'm like got to get out.
所以我必须出去。
And I get out of the sauna.
我走出桑拿房。
And then one of the reasons I love the cold so much.
这也是我如此喜欢寒冷的原因之一。
We'll jump in our cold, our pool or our cold plunges.
我们会跳进我们的寒冷、我们的游泳池或我们的寒冷跳水池。
I can get back in the sauna, right?
我可以回到桑拿房，对吗？
Andrew Huberman: Right.
安德鲁·休伯曼：对。
It's the contrast of I try to do it once a week.
这与我尝试每周做一次形成鲜明对比。
Sauna, cold, sauna.
桑拿，冷，桑拿。
Once a week.
每周一次。
It, you know.
它，你知道。
Again, not training for any specific thing except to be able to go back to Jocko's house.
再说一次，除了能够回到乔科的家之外，没有为任何特定的事情进行训练。
'Cause I did sauna at Jocko's house with some family members of his and friends.
因为我和乔科的一些家人和朋友一起在乔科的家里洗了桑拿。
And I think they wanted to see when I would...
我想他们想看看我什么时候...
Dr. Kelly Starrett: They wanted to crush you.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：他们想碾碎你。
Andrew Huberman: So they went.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以他们走了。
I think they cranked that thing to like 220 to 30.
我想他们把这个速度调到了 220 到 30。
And they called.
他们打电话来了。
He got me on this there.
他在那里让我知道了这一点。
I ended up down on the floor, you know.
我最终倒在地板上，你知道。
And they were, they were teasing me because it's obviously cooler down on the floor than up top.
他们是，他们在取笑我，因为地板上显然比上面凉爽。
And so they call that the Huberman spot.
所以他们称之为休伯曼点。
The wimpy spot.
软弱的地方。
But yeah, he's a beast with the sauna.
但是，是的，他是桑拿的野兽。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Everyone, it's not a contest.
Kelly Starrett 博士：各位，这不是一场竞赛。
Andrew Huberman: And what it is, it is in the Willink household.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：它是什么，它在威林克家里。
I'll tell you, it absolutely is.
我告诉你，绝对是的。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: One of the things I like about the heat and the cold is that it informs me about my readiness state because just like my CO2 tolerance, my breath holds are very short.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我喜欢炎热和寒冷的原因之一是，它让我了解自己的准备状态，因为就像我的二氧化碳耐受性一样，我的屏气时间也很短。
When I'm stressed and underrecovered, my heat tolerance drops dramatically and so does my cold tolerance.
当我感到压力和恢复不足时，我的耐热性会急剧下降，耐冷性也会急剧下降。
It's easier to pick up really fast.
更容易快速拿起。
I start shivering right away.
我立刻开始发抖。
I'm like whoa, I've been in here for 30 seconds.
我当时就想，哇，我已经在这里呆了 30 秒了。
I'm already shivering.
我已经瑟瑟发抖了。
I'm like huh.
我就像呵呵
Another piece of data that says maybe I need to make it a 70% day in the gym and move.
另一项数据表明，也许我需要每天 70% 的时间都在健身房运动。
I don't have to take a day off.
我不需要休息一天。
Juliet and I believe in this thing called desire to train.
朱丽叶和我相信一种叫做训练欲望的东西。
We wake up every day like you, probably self-medicated with some exercise as kids, right?
我们每天都像你一样醒来，可能小时候就通过一些锻炼来自我治疗，对吧？
And we start thinking about what we're going to exercise.
我们开始思考我们要锻炼什么。
What are we going to do?
我们要做什么？
We're going to ride our bikes.
我们要骑自行车。
What are we going to do?
我们要做什么？
What are we going to lift?
我们要举起什么？
Like wait, when we wake up, we start thinking about when are we going to do it.
就像等一下，当我们醒来时，我们开始思考我们什么时候要做这件事。
And we wake up on some days and it's not there.
有时我们醒来时发现它不在那里。
And what we ask ourselves is it's not there, why is it not there?
我们问自己的是它不存在，为什么它不存在？
Is it me?
是我吗？
I should be there.
我应该在那里。
We should go train anyway.
无论如何我们都应该去训练。
But we really try to listen to that voice.
但我们确实尝试倾听那个声音。
And when there's no desire to train, it's really strange how it correlates with crap heat tolerance, crap CO2 tolerance, crap cold tolerance.
当没有训练的欲望时，它与糟糕的耐热性、糟糕的二氧化碳耐受性、糟糕的寒冷耐受性之间的关系真的很奇怪。
And I think it's a nice way of understanding yourself from sort of a third-party objective measure.
我认为这是通过第三方客观衡量来了解自己的好方法。
Especially as you get at this, you're like wow, that really sucked today.
尤其是当你看到这一点时，你会觉得哇，今天真是太糟糕了。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I love that.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我喜欢这个。
I think assessing one's degree of kind of forward center of mass for effort is great.
我认为评估一个人努力的前重心程度是很棒的。
I'm borrowing this analogy from somebody else.
我借用别人的比喻。
I didn't come up with this.
我没有想出这个。
He said you're with all things.
他说你和一切都在一起。
You're either, you know, back on your heels, flat footed or forward center of mass.
你知道，你要么是脚跟向后，扁平足，要么是重心前移。
And I think we've heard a lot about, you know, trying to encourage ourselves to always be forward center of mass.
我想我们已经听说过很多关于试图鼓励自己始终成为前进的中心的说法。
What I'm hearing today is that it's great to do that sometimes, great sometimes to back off, but to just explore the full range of, for lack of a better way to put it, sort of emotional range of motion, you know.
我今天听到的是，有时这样做很好，有时退缩也很好，但只是探索情感运动的全部范围，因为缺乏更好的方式来表达，你知道。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah, and remember ultimately all this is supposed to be additive, right?
Kelly Starrett 博士：是的，请记住，最终所有这些都应该是累加的，对吗？
And it's supposed to inoculate me by creating a framework that makes more durable my body and my relationships.
它应该通过创建一个框架来为我接种疫苗，使我的身体和人际关系更加持久。
I mean we, we didn't even talk about the fact that the sauna is like, it's just glue for people.
我的意思是，我们甚至没有谈论桑拿这个事实，它只是人们的粘合剂。
It allows people to come together.
它让人们聚集在一起。
I think one of the things I've noticed with my male friends is that it gives us a place like once a week where we get together because it's so hot.
我想我和我的男性朋友注意到的一件事是，它为我们提供了一个每周一次的聚会场所，因为天气太热了。
We also, we're all super vulnerable and--
我们也，我们都非常脆弱而且——
Andrew Huberman: --The truth barrel.
安德鲁·休伯曼：——真相桶。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: We talk with our friends and we kind of share stories and can talk about our lives.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我们与朋友交谈，分享故事并谈论我们的生活。
So it creates a framework for that.
因此它为此创建了一个框架。
And if that was the benefit of the sauna, I'm in just that alone, right?
如果这就是桑拿的好处，那我就只有这个好处了，对吧？
That my wife and I feel more connected after taking one together.
我和我的妻子在一起服用后感觉更加亲密。
I'm like, well who cares about the heat shock proteins and Alzheimer's.
我想，好吧，谁关心热休克蛋白和阿尔茨海默病。
That's probably important too.
这或许也很重要。
But I like having a lot of bonding things.
但我喜欢有很多联系的东西。
And I think we, it's easy for us to sort of so hyperscience and hypertactic things that we forget.
我认为我们很容易忘记一些超科学和超策略的事情。
The whole point of the brain is to be around other brains.
大脑的全部意义在于围绕其他大脑。
That's it.
就是这样。
That's why the brain exists.
这就是大脑存在的原因。
And then those brains go do rad shit in the world together.
然后这些大脑就会一起在世界上做一些疯狂的事情。
And sometimes it's that simple.
有时就是这么简单。
And when we start throwing that filter on it becomes a lot more sustainable.
当我们开始添加过滤器时，它就会变得更加可持续。
I'm not interested in being 110, I'm interested in being durable enough to take the hits on my way to 110.
我对成为 110 岁不感兴趣，我感兴趣的是能够有足够的耐力来承受通往 110 岁的道路上的打击。
Andrew Huberman: I love that some of my best friendships have been forged in the saunas.
Andrew Huberman：我很喜欢在桑拿房中结下的一些最好的友谊。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's true, right.
Kelly Starrett 博士：确实如此，对吧。
Andrew Huberman: And not by pushing ourselves necessarily, just, just become the thing, you know.
安德鲁·休伯曼：不一定要强迫自己，只是成为现实，你知道。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: It's so cool.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：太酷了。
I know that some of my New Zealand teams have a kava.
我知道我的一些新西兰团队有卡瓦酒。
They call it recovery and sometimes they'll share, have a kava ceremony and drink a little kava and then jump in the sauna and boy, it really binds the boys.
他们称之为恢复，有时他们会分享，举行卡瓦仪式，喝一点卡瓦，然后跳进桑拿房，男孩们，这真的把男孩们联系在一起。
You know, they really create a downregulation effect.
你知道，它们确实产生了下调效应。
I mean, it's so, you know, I think again, my own bias, because I love this stuff, is that I think all of it is about physical input.
我的意思是，是这样的，你知道，我再次想，我自己的偏见，因为我喜欢这些东西，是我认为所有这些都与身体输入有关。
So if we took a sort of macro step back, we can say is, what is your physical practice look like?
因此，如果我们宏观地退一步，我们可以说，你的身体练习是什么样的？
Tell me about your physical practice.
告诉我你的身体练习。
Well, I get up, move my body and I try to eat a fruit and some protein before I get out the door.
好吧，我起床，活动一下身体，在出门前尝试吃点水果和一些蛋白质。
And I walk all day long and I try not to sit in one place for a long period of time.
我整天走路，尽量不要长时间坐在一个地方。
And then I get home and if I'm lucky enough to exercise, I do.
然后我回到家，如果我足够幸运能够锻炼身体，我就会锻炼身体。
And then I sat on the floor and I rolled a little bit.
然后我坐在地板上，滚动了一点。
But that's a full practice.
但这是一次完整的练习。
You walked, you got sunlight, you.
你走过，你有阳光，你。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
And that I think is a much better way of thinking about this versus sort of let me add another line of code let-me-add-another-line-of-code tier programming where now you're doing three sets of ten in this thing.
我认为这是一种更好的思考方式，而不是让我添加另一行代码让我添加另一行代码层编程，现在你在这件事上做三组，每组十个。
Andrew Huberman: What are your thoughts on nutrition?
安德鲁·休伯曼：您对营养有何看法？
You seem to be pretty balanced about this.
看来你对此很平衡。
Before we started recording, you were talking about some meatloaf recipes that sound pretty amazing.
在我们开始录制之前，您正在谈论一些听起来非常神奇的肉饼食谱。
Clearly you love food.
显然你很喜欢食物。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I'm not gonna say I'm the best at meatloaf, but I may be 7 out of 11 times Bamboo Terrace bench champion.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我不会说我是肉饼方面最好的，但我可能是 11 次 Bamboo Terrace 板凳冠军中的 7 次。
I'm gonna get a tattoo, but it's fine.
我要去纹身，不过没关系。
Andrew Huberman: What, you enjoy food?
Andrew Huberman：什么，你喜欢食物吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I love food.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我喜欢食物。
Andrew Huberman: So, you know, you like to eat and you cook a bit as well.
Andrew Huberman：所以，你知道，你喜欢吃东西，而且你也会做饭。
Most people feel, I think, kind of overwhelmed by the discussion about nutrition.
我认为，大多数人对有关营养的讨论感到不知所措。
Now we're trying to get a gram of protein per pound of body weight, which I subscribe to, but if I'm supposed to spread that out across the day, sometimes I'm doing that, sometimes I'm not.
现在我们正试图获得每磅体重一克蛋白质，我同意这一点，但如果我应该将其分散到一天中，有时我会这样做，有时我不会。
I like fruits and vegetables.
我喜欢水果和蔬菜。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Did you feel like a failure because you didn't have.
Kelly Starrett 博士：您是否因为没有而感到失败。
I mean, honestly, if it can feel for people like, oh, I didn't do it.
我的意思是，老实说，如果人们能有这样的感觉，哦，我没有这么做。
Andrew Huberman: No, I think if people make getting high quality, high protein-to-calorie ratio foods as the foundation of their diet, and then eating some vegetables and eating some fruit.
Andrew Huberman：不，我认为如果人们将高质量、高蛋白质热量比的食物作为饮食的基础，然后吃一些蔬菜和水果。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Whoa, bro, what about the peels?
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：哇，兄弟，果皮怎么样？
You're going to kill people.
你会杀人。
Andrew Huberman: And then I, I love that.
Andrew Huberman：然后我，我喜欢这个。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's dangerous.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：那很危险。
Andrew Huberman: I'll eat the whole, I'll eat the orange peel.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我会吃整个，我会吃橙皮。
If it's a really good orange, I will.
如果这是一个非常好的橙子，我会的。
People who know me, I'm.
认识我的人，我就是。
I've gotten some wide eyes at meals where I'll take the lemons out of my drink.
吃饭时我会从饮料中取出柠檬，这会引起一些人的注意。
I'll just eat the whole thing down.
我会把整个东西吃下去。
I don't care.
我不在乎。
Someone will tell me why it's going to kill me.
有人会告诉我为什么它会杀了我。
But I don't eat the seeds, but I'll eat the peel, too.
但我不吃种子，但我也会吃果皮。
So some vegetables, fruit, and then some starches.
所以一些蔬菜、水果，然后一些淀粉。
You know, per energetic requirements and/or real life.
你知道，根据能量需求和/或现实生活。
Like, I'm not gonna stay away from the sourdough bread because I don't need a starch that I don't have a little bit of it.
就像，我不会远离酵母面包，因为我不需要淀粉，因为我没有一点淀粉。
Like, you know, I feel like we've lost our rational approach to eating because people feel these, you know, these quantifiable metrics of, you know, calories and protein.
就像，你知道，我觉得我们已经失去了理性的饮食方法，因为人们感觉到这些，你知道，这些卡路里和蛋白质的量化指标。
They're important, clearly.
显然，它们很重要。
But I've always known you to be somebody who's very balanced.
但我一直都知道你是一个非常平衡的人。
Balanced about the occasional ice cream.
偶尔吃点冰淇淋保持平衡。
Yes, steak, but also vegetables.
是的，牛排，还有蔬菜。
I mean, A, why do you think that the nutrition conversation has gotten so distracted, even contentious?
我的意思是，A，你认为为什么营养话题变得如此分散注意力，甚至引起争议？
And B, what do you do?
B，你做什么？
And, you know, if you were going to raise a kid, you've raised kids.
而且，你知道，如果你要抚养一个孩子，你就已经抚养了孩子。
If you're going to raise a kid and say, here's what, like, balanced nutrition looks like to you, okay, I'm not calling you nutritionist.
如果你要抚养一个孩子并说，这对你来说是均衡的营养，好吧，我不会称你为营养师。
I'm saying to you, how do you see this picture?
我对你说，你怎么看这张照片？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: What I want to point out is that if we're going to have a conversation, remember, my real job, day job is high performance.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我想指出的是，如果我们要进行对话，请记住，我真正的工作，日常工作是高绩效。
I'm going to have to talk about body composition, and I'm going to have to talk about fueling.
我将不得不谈论身体成分，并且我将不得不谈论补充能量。
Do you have enough carbs on board to do what we're going to do?
船上有足够的碳水化合物来完成我们要做的事情吗？
Are you eating to recover to reduce the session cost?
您是否通过饮食来恢复以减少治疗成本？
How do we minimize the sort of the physiologic cost of this training and this competition, and that's all wrapped around nutrition.
我们如何最大限度地减少这种训练和比赛的生理成本，而这一切都与营养有关。
Nutrition I already hinted at.
营养我已经暗示过了。
I'm going to have to talk and ultimately ask you to get a blood panel and look at, make sure that you have everything on board so that your tissues are tissues and can handle the load or prescribing them.
我将不得不谈谈并最终要求您进行血液检查并进行检查，确保您已准备好所有东西，以便您的组织是组织并且可以承受负荷或处方它们。
So I didn't want to get into nutrition at all because it's always about body composition for me.
所以我根本不想研究营养学，因为对我来说它总是与身体成分有关。
And I'm like, that's the most boring reason.
我想，这是最无聊的原因。
Sean Stevenson wrote a beautiful book about creating a table culture and a culture on eating for your family.
肖恩·史蒂文森写了一本关于为家人创造餐桌文化和饮食文化的精彩书。
So for me, the functional unit of change is the household; that's the place where I want to make and put all my energy and time.
所以对我来说，改变的功能单位是家庭；那是我想要创造并投入我所有精力和时间的地方。
That's how we'll transform society one household at a time.
这就是我们一次一个家庭改造社会的方式。
But sitting down with your kids, the research around eating with your kids like twice or three times a week is phenomenal, right?
但是和你的孩子一起坐下来，关于每周和孩子一起吃饭两到三次的研究是惊人的，对吧？
Like, cooking is beautiful.
就像，烹饪是美丽的。
I have to become more nuanced because if I have a team I'm working with, like we had a tournament two weeks ago at Stanford.
我必须变得更加细致，因为如果我有一个正在合作的团队，就像我们两周前在斯坦福大学举办的一场锦标赛一样。
We played four games and the...
我们玩了四场比赛，...
that's four collegiate, nationally ranked teams that were playing badasses.
那是四支全国排名的大学球队，他们打得很厉害。
How do I fuel those women?
我如何为这些女性加油？
How do I get them?
我如何获得它们？
What do they want to eat?
他们想吃什么？
What makes them feel good?
是什么让他们感觉良好？
What makes them feel bad?
是什么让他们感觉不好？
How do we balance all of that?
我们如何平衡这一切？
Like, I found out that putting food on a table with a tablecloth increased calories, again, as a high performance for me.
就像，我发现把食物放在铺着桌布的桌子上会增加卡路里，这对我来说也是一种高性能。
I'm like, how are the ways that I can be thinking about this from a practical standpoint?
我想，从实际的角度来看，我可以如何思考这个问题？
My personal thing is that we focus on trying to create.
我个人的事情是我们专注于尝试创造。
This has been really useful for, for Juliet and I.
这对于朱丽叶和我来说非常有用。
An objective measure, 0.8 to 1 grams of protein, which means I don't measure anymore.
客观测量，0.8到1克蛋白质，这意味着我不再测量了。
Andrew Huberman: I'm...
安德鲁·休伯曼：我...
per pound of body weight.
每磅体重。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I'm 51-years-old — per pound body weight.
Kelly Starrett 博士：按每磅体重计算，我今年 51 岁。
So what does that mean?
那么这意味着什么呢？
It means that I really try to prioritize protein every meal.
这意味着我真的尝试每餐优先考虑蛋白质。
Super simple.
超级简单。
And I try not to eat one protein.
我尽量不吃任何一种蛋白质。
I try to eat all the proteins.
我尝试吃掉所有的蛋白质。
Right?
正确的？
That's probably better.
那可能更好。
I try not to choose personally very fatty proteins because my genetics don't really support it.
我个人尽量不选择高脂肪蛋白质，因为我的基因并不支持它。
If I want to see triglycerides and things go through the roof, then I'll watch me eat eggs and butter and steak — like keto gives me diarrhea.
如果我想看到甘油三酯和东西飞速上升，那么我就会看着自己吃鸡蛋、黄油和牛排——就像酮会让我腹泻一样。
So what I'll say is I try to go for leaner proteins there, and then on the fruits and vegetables because I think we have a real problem with not enough micronutrients.
所以我要说的是，我尝试在那里摄入更瘦的蛋白质，然后是水果和蔬菜，因为我认为我们确实存在微量营养素不足的问题。
Again, talking about tissue health, and definitely not enough fiber.
再次，谈论组织健康，并且绝对没有足够的纤维。
Those are huge problems.
这些都是大问题。
And if I get 800 grams of fruits and vegetables.
如果我得到 800 克水果和蔬菜。
This is a nutrition strategy promoted by our friend EC Senkowski at OptimizeMe Nutrition.
这是我们的朋友 EC Senkowski 在 OptimizeMe Nutrition 推广的营养策略。
She put this 800-gram challenge based on some research, and it changed everything.
她根据一些研究提出了这个 800 克的挑战，它改变了一切。
Because suddenly I was like, oh my God, I gotta eat more food.
因为突然间我就想，天哪，我得吃更多的食物。
I have to eat more fruits and vegetables.
我必须多吃水果和蔬菜。
And I was stuffing myself with fruits and vegetables, getting enough protein that I was like, I guess there's no room for a cookie.
我用水果和蔬菜填饱自己，获取足够的蛋白质，我想，我想没有地方放饼干了。
And what I really liked about that it was agnostic about your cultural preferences.
我真正喜欢的是它不了解你的文化偏好。
It didn't matter if you were vegan, didn't matter if you're vegetarian.
如果你是素食主义者并不重要，如果你是素食主义者也没关系。
Didn't matter if you were carnivore.
如果你是肉食动物并不重要。
You want to do carnivore plus berries, knock yourself right out.
如果你想做肉食动物加浆果，那就把自己搞垮吧。
It gave people permission to have their food identities, but it also met the minimums.
它允许人们拥有自己的食物身份，但也满足了最低要求。
And then we can dose up and dose down based on what your performance needs are.
然后我们可以根据您的性能需求来增加和减少剂量。
Andrew Huberman: And this is 800 grams, not of carbohydrate.
Andrew Huberman：这是 800 克，不是碳水化合物。
This is eight fruits and vegetables.
这是八种水果和蔬菜。
800 grams of--
800克——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: It's like four big apples.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：它就像四个大苹果。
Andrew Huberman: Gotcha.
安德鲁·休伯曼：明白了。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: A banana is like 80 to 100 grams.
Kelly Starrett 博士：一根香蕉大约 80 到 100 克。
Okay, yeah.
好吧，是的。
If you want to be real dangerous.
如果你想成为真正的危险者。
You ate eight.
你吃了八个
Eight bananas today.
今天八根香蕉。
You could die.
你可能会死。
I mean, just.
我的意思是，只是。
You could die.
你可能会死。
Andrew Huberman: And a big salad with, you know, lettuce, cucumber, tomato, and probably.
Andrew Huberman：还有一份大沙拉，里面有生菜、黄瓜、西红柿，可能还有。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Probably 2 to 300 grams.
Kelly Starrett 博士：大概 2 到 300 克。
Andrew Huberman: Okay, so then you'd also want to get some fruit, maybe another.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：好的，那么你还想买一些水果，也许是另一个。
Maybe some cruciferous vegetables, etc.
也许一些十字花科蔬菜等。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Check this out again.
Kelly Starrett 博士：再检查一下。
I'm just going to do some boy math here.
我只是要做一些男孩数学。
Starbucks cookie.
星巴克饼干。
Delicious.
可口的。
Andrew Huberman: Really?
安德鲁·休伯曼：真的吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Three hundred calories.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：三百卡路里。
I just call it delicious.
我只是说它美味。
Right?
正确的？
A pound of cherries is 230 calories.
一磅樱桃含有230卡路里热量。
So eat a pound of cherries and tell me you're like, ah, I still want something sweet.
所以吃一磅樱桃并告诉我你会说，啊，我仍然想要一些甜的东西。
A pound of melon.
一斤瓜。
Was it like 220 calories?
大约是220卡路里吗？
A pound of melon.
一斤瓜。
So calorically not very dense.
所以热量不是很密集。
Right.
正确的。
But nutritionally super dense.
但营养超级密集。
So we end up loading a ton of more food on.
所以我们最终装载了大量的食物。
And it really does prioritize those things.
它确实优先考虑这些事情。
And from a performance standpoint, one of our friends is this incredible nutritionist at Michigan football.
从表现的角度来看，我们的一位朋友是密歇根橄榄球队这位令人难以置信的营养师。
Abigail is amazing there, and she will tell me about how she's using nutrition as intervention for sports performance.
阿比盖尔在那里很棒，她会告诉我她如何利用营养来干预运动表现。
And she'll have men come up to her and say, Abigail, I pooped today.
她会让男人过来对她说，阿比盖尔，我今天拉屎了。
And she's like, yeah, that's great.
她说，是的，那太好了。
You should poop every day.
你应该每天大便。
And they're like, no, you understand.
他们说，不，你明白。
I pooped yesterday, too, and it's the first time these kids have pooped consecutively.
我昨天也拉屎了，这是这些孩子第一次连续拉屎。
They don't poop regularly.
他们不定期排便。
And I think, again, if I'm just trying to get out in the weeds and talk about what's normal and not normal, we should talk about, you didn't eat fiber.
我想，如果我只是想摆脱困境，谈论什么是正常的，什么是不正常的，我们应该谈谈，你没有吃纤维。
And she's like, wait until you poop twice in one day.
她就像，等到你一天拉屎两次。
And they were like, that's crazy.
他们说，这太疯狂了。
I've never in my whole life.
我这辈子从来没有。
And what was the difference is they started eating fruits and vegetables and fiber.
不同的是他们开始吃水果、蔬菜和纤维。
And when we start to create those benchmarks, it's a lot easier for me to see inputs and outputs.
当我们开始创建这些基准时，我可以更轻松地查看输入和输出。
And then we can argue about, can you choke down 100 grams of carbs an hour because you're my elite cyclist.
然后我们可以争论，你能每小时摄入 100 克碳水化合物吗，因为你是我的精英自行车手。
You know, I think you'd be shocked at how my, a lot of my athletes have changed their relationship around food because it serves their needs.
你知道，我想你会对我的很多运动员改变他们与食物的关系感到震惊，因为食物满足了他们的需求。
It's not their identity around control.
这不是他们围绕控制的身份。
And something that Julie and I have been very cautious of because if you have two daughters, just speaking...
朱莉和我一直非常谨慎，因为如果你有两个女儿，只是说......
We're really concerned about creating dysfunctional patterns or relationships to food because in this fitness space it can be real gnarly.
我们真的很担心创建功能失调的模式或与食物的关系，因为在这个健身空间中它可能非常粗糙。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I see the progression from, you know, sitcoms of the type that we grew up on to reality TV shows to social media where social media can do so much good, education wise, etc., connection.
安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我看到了从我们长大的那种情景喜剧到真人秀电视节目再到社交媒体的进展，在社交媒体上，社交媒体可以做很多好事，教育方面的等等，联系。
But it's basically a reality TV show that everyone's been able to cast themselves in if they want.
但这基本上是一个真人秀节目，每个人都可以根据自己的意愿参加。
And certain characters are casting their physique, certain figures are casting their outrageous behavior, and we're all in this reality TV show called social media.
某些角色正在塑造他们的体格，某些人物正在塑造他们令人发指的行为，而我们都在这个名为社交媒体的真人秀节目中。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I think that's really the best way to describe it.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我认为这确实是描述它的最佳方式。
Andrew Huberman: When people start to feel like, oh, wow, these people are getting attention for this reason or that reason, it creates a gravitational pull toward people behaving a certain way.
安德鲁·休伯曼：当人们开始感觉，哦，哇，这些人因为这个或那个原因而受到关注时，它就会对人们的某种行为方式产生引力。
And then obviously some of that can be really self-destructive.
显然，其中一些可能真的是自我毁灭。
Um, do you win health?
嗯，你赢得健康了吗？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I mean, this is a great question I ask people.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我的意思是，这是我向人们提出的一个很好的问题。
So, like, you shredded down, super dysfunctional eating.
所以，就像，你撕碎了，超级不正常的饮食。
You can't go out and eat with friends.
你不能出去和朋友一起吃饭。
You don't drink anything with calories.
你不喝任何含有卡路里的东西。
Like, it's really gnarly to be hyperlean.
就像，超级瘦真的很粗糙。
And then what I'll say is, when you took your shirt off, did you win Instagram, did you win because you got another 60, 70 years on this planet.
然后我要说的是，当你脱掉衬衫时，你是否赢得了 Instagram，你是否赢得了胜利，因为你在这个星球上又活了 60、70 年。
How does that work?
这是如何运作的？
We don't really diet.
我们并没有真正节食。
We'll manipulate macros to take weight off, to put weight off.
我们将操纵宏来减轻重量，减轻重量。
Players in season, out of season, you will have, we'll have really good athletes say, I think I should lose 4 pounds the next two weeks for this thing.
赛季中、非赛季中的球员，我们都会有非常优秀的运动员说，我想我应该在接下来的两周内为此减掉 4 磅。
And I'm like, hold up, I'm not going to put you in another stressor.
我想，等等，我不会再给你带来压力。
When we're trying to like, let's go ahead and talk about body composition after the season.
当我们试图喜欢时，让我们继续讨论赛季结束后的身体成分。
But ultimately, when we really get people on board with how food has the potential to enrich their relationships, how fun it is to cook, how fun it is to prep, how fun it is to serve other people, then we have this really different relationship with fueling.
但最终，当我们真正让人们了解食物如何有潜力丰富他们的人际关系、烹饪是多么有趣、准备是多么有趣、为他人服务是多么有趣时，我们就会与加油建立一种真正不同的关系。
And that's, that's really remarkable.
那就是，这真的很了不起。
But it is really easy to say, I won.
但说起来真的很容易，我赢了。
And now I'm like, okay, so this 90-day fast, there are so many fitness things out there where they start with a fast or brutal calorie restriction.
现在我想，好吧，所以在 90 天的禁食中，有很多健身项目都是从快速或严格的卡路里限制开始的。
And I'm like, that's your jam to get people lean fast.
我想，这就是你让人们快速瘦身的果酱。
It's just to slam off the calories.
这只是为了减少卡路里。
Like we know what's going to happen.
就像我们知道会发生什么一样。
How many people have done some kind of 30-day, 90-day thing and the next day it's like they're off the rails.
有多少人做了某种 30 天、90 天的事情，第二天却好像偏离了轨道。
So if you're doing some body recomp and then you're off the rails.
所以，如果你正在做一些身体重组，然后你就偏离了轨道。
For me I'm like, I don't think that was very good because I got a, this is a long season we're playing.
对我来说，我认为这不是很好，因为我得到了一个，这是我们正在打的一个漫长的赛季。
Andrew Huberman: I think it's.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我认为是的。
I have to be careful here because I realize this gets into some issues.
我在这里必须小心，因为我意识到这会引起一些问题。
When I did an episode about anorexia, I learned that first of all, anorexia has existed for centuries.
当我制作一个关于厌食症的剧集时，我了解到，首先，厌食症已经存在了几个世纪。
This idea that it's more prominent now with social media, actually the numbers don't bear out.
这种想法现在在社交媒体上更加突出，但实际上数字并没有得到证实。
What does bear out is that it is the most deadly, the most deadly by far of all the psychiatric illnesses.
事实证明，它是所有精神疾病中最致命的一种。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Oh, interesting.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：哦，有趣。
Andrew Huberman: It leads to death in a far greater percentage of cases than any other psychiatric illness, including bipolar, where people often commit suicide.
安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）：与任何其他精神疾病（包括人们经常自杀的双相情感障碍）相比，它导致死亡的病例比例要高得多。
A much higher percentage of people commit suicide who are bipolar, etc. So it's a really serious thing and yet we assume that social media has made that worse.
躁郁症患者自杀的比例要高得多。所以这是一件非常严重的事情，但我们认为社交媒体让情况变得更糟。
But there's now this cluster of all these different eating disorders that don't qualify as full-blown anorexia nervosa.
但现在出现了一系列不同的饮食失调症，它们不符合全面的神经性厌食症的标准。
Sort of like ADHD.
有点像多动症。
Now we understand people are having attention deficit issues that might not be clinical ADHD but that cluster around it.
现在我们了解到人们存在注意力缺陷问题，这些问题可能不是临床多动症，而是围绕它而来。
And like people's, adult's and children's inability to hold their attention on an idea or topic for any appreciable amount of time.
就像人一样，成人和儿童无法将注意力长时间集中在某个想法或主题上。
So it's a very serious thing.
所以这是一件非常严重的事情。
I love that today you've talked about enjoying your training, like really enjoying your training.
我很高兴今天你谈到享受你的训练，就像真正享受你的训练一样。
All aspects, the resistance part, the cardiovascular part, the mobility part, you know, the in the evening, getting down on the floor.
各个方面，阻力部分，心血管部分，流动性部分，你知道，晚上，趴在地板上。
Also enjoying eating with people, enjoying the sauna.
还喜欢和人一起吃饭，享受桑拿。
I mean, I think, you know, people see the big guy that you are, the amazing track record you have of working with all these incredible athletes and you're quite an accomplished athlete yourself.
我的意思是，我认为，人们看到了你这个大人物，看到了你与所有这些令人难以置信的运动员合作的惊人记录，而且你自己也是一位非常有成就的运动员。
And I think this is the first time for me anyway that I realized like you are thinking about how to make this whole thing pleasurable and mesh it with real life, which I'm realizing now shouldn't come as a surprise because you have a family, a flourishing family in addition to a flourishing business with The Ready State and, and so forth.
我想这对我来说是第一次意识到你正在考虑如何让这整件事变得愉快并将其与现实生活相结合，我现在意识到这不应该让人感到惊讶，因为你有一个家庭，一个繁荣的家庭，还有与“准备状态”等蓬勃发展的业务等等。
I think if there's one message that really comes through over and over again.
我想如果有一条信息真的会一遍又一遍地传达出来。
It's like, how can you make fitness and nutrition and health part of your life but not let it take over your life or your mind in a way that isn't healthy?
就像，你如何才能让健身、营养和健康成为你生活的一部分，而又不让它以不健康的方式占据你的生活或你的思想？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Yeah, thank you for that.
Kelly Starrett 博士：是的，谢谢您。
And if that's coming across at all, I think we're, we're doing a better job and I would say certainly tempered as I've gotten more reasonable.
如果真的有这种情况的话，我认为我们做得更好了，我想说的是，随着我变得更加理性，我们肯定会脾气暴躁。
You know, I think we get older and you can see a little bit more of the horizon and you, you know, you start to wrap your hands around how are we going to solve these problems in these different places and what is sustainable?
你知道，我认为我们变老了，你可以看到更多的视野，你知道，你开始思考我们如何在这些不同的地方解决这些问题以及什么是可持续的？
You know, I really think that that's, you know, we see quick inputs and outputs that are high levels of sports performance.
你知道，我真的认为那是，你知道，我们看到快速的输入和输出，这是高水平的运动表现。
And simultaneously, again I want to take those lessons and transmute them to my own household in a really sustainable, fun way.
同时，我想再次吸取这些教训，并以一种真正可持续、有趣的方式将它们转化为我自己的家庭。
The nutrition piece is such a dangerous one and young right now.
营养品是一种非常危险的产品，而且现在还很年轻。
Juliet and I are very obsessed with youth sports and spending time with seeing if we can improve that experience for families so they come out unharmed.
朱丽叶和我非常痴迷于青少年运动，并花时间看看我们是否可以改善家庭的体验，让他们安然无恙。
And you know, REDS, relative energy deficiency in sport, you know, is where we start to see that kids are not eating enough to fuel activity and their growing body simultaneously, and it's really hard on their physiologies.
你知道，REDS，即运动中的相对能量缺乏，你知道，我们开始看到孩子们吃得不够，无法同时为活动和成长中的身体提供能量，这对他们的生理机能来说真的很困难。
And it starts to show up with lost periods, it starts to show up with stress fractures.
它开始出现月经丢失，开始出现应力性骨折。
Right.
正确的。
And we start to see sort of this, some degradation in sort of the body's tissues, but can really cause a lot of problems.
我们开始看到这种情况，身体组织的一些退化，但确实会引起很多问题。
And you know, Stacy Sims is probably the first person to really put it on my radar of hey, you're a physio coach.
你知道，史黛西·西姆斯可能是第一个真正让我注意到“嘿，你是一名体能教练”的人。
I need you to become an expert with the people that you're working with.
我需要你成为与你一起工作的人的专家。
You know, are you getting enough support?
你知道，你得到足够的支持吗？
And I see some of the elite women I work with, elite women really battle.
我看到一些与我一起工作的精英女性，精英女性确实在战斗。
This is what the body I need to get paid and to win world championships.
这就是我获得报酬和赢得世界冠军所需的身体。
And that's not the body that people want on Instagram.
这并不是人们在 Instagram 上想要的身材。
And you know, you know, should I have a salad after this training?
你知道，你知道，训练结束后我应该吃沙拉吗？
I'm like, we just played for three hours.
我想，我们才玩了三个小时。
No, you're not going to eat a salad.
不，你不会吃沙拉。
Like go get this big-ass burrito and then we'll talk about your salad next, you know?
就像去吃这个大卷饼，然后我们接下来讨论你的沙拉，你知道吗？
Andrew Huberman: So it sounds like the athletes are undereating and from my understanding anyway, the statistics...
安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以听起来运动员们吃得不足，无论如何，根据我的理解，统计数据......
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Also underfueling.
Kelly Starrett 博士：同样是燃料不足。
Which I know is confusing.
我知道这很令人困惑。
But you know, potentially not thinking about food at the right times.
但你知道，可能没有在正确的时间考虑食物。
Andrew Huberman: And within the general population of nonathletes, especially youth, however, it seems that young people are overconsuming calories.
安德鲁·胡伯曼：然而，在非运动员群体中，尤其是年轻人中，年轻人似乎摄入了过多的卡路里。
So there seems to be two populations clustering out.
所以似乎有两个种群聚集在一起。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Here we have a, this reminds me, we have a rule in our house for dinner.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：这让我想起，我们家有一个关于晚餐的规定。
We have a three-vegetable rule.
我们有一个三蔬菜规则。
This is from a woman we work with, Margaret Garvey, who cooks a protein, whatever that is, and has also three vegetables.
这是与我们一起工作的一位女士玛格丽特·加维 (Margaret Garvey) 提供的，她会烹饪蛋白质，无论是什么，还吃三种蔬菜。
And that's where she starts.
这就是她开始的地方。
And I had one daughter who is like a gourmet chef.
我有一个女儿，她就像一位美食厨师。
Georgia is just a total badass, you know, G.
乔治亚简直就是个混蛋，你知道的，G.
And then I have Caroline, who is the pickiest human being on the planet.
然后是卡罗琳，她是这个星球上最挑剔的人。
Like, it's brown.
比如，它是棕色的。
I'm not eating it, you know, and she's getting better.
你知道，我不会吃它，而且她正在好转。
But when we had three vegetables, suddenly what we saw was that she might eat one.
但当我们吃了三种蔬菜时，我们突然发现她可能会吃一种。
Right.
正确的。
And we could start to have exposure.
我们可以开始接触。
But I think if we crowd out some of them, because we don't want to have a restrictive house.
但我认为，如果我们排除其中的一些人，因为我们不想有一个限制性的房子。
Right?
正确的？
But, you know, if we crowd out some of the other foods, we found that it was a lot easier for us to say, this is what we're eating, and we eat this together as a family.
但是，你知道，如果我们排除其他一些食物，我们发现我们更容易说，这就是我们正在吃的东西，我们一家人一起吃这个。
And then if those other foods, I mean, your teenagers are going to leave the house and eat whatever they want.
然后，如果那些其他食物，我的意思是，你的孩子会离开家，想吃什么就吃什么。
Just, just be clear, everybody.
只是，大家说清楚。
So you might as well stuff them with the good stuff at home.
所以你不妨把家里的好东西塞给他们。
Andrew Huberman: I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about supplements.
Andrew Huberman：如果我没有向您询问有关补充剂的问题，那就是我的失职。
These days we hear a lot about creatine.
这些天我们听到很多关于肌酸的事情。
Creatine, creatine, creatine.
肌酸，肌酸，肌酸。
I like creatine.
我喜欢肌酸。
Been taking it for years.
多年来一直服用它。
We'll occasionally do a wash out where I just kind of let a bunch of water out of my--
我们偶尔会进行一次清洗，我只是让一堆水从我的——
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Why not?
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：为什么不呢？
Andrew Huberman: And then get back to it.
Andrew Huberman：然后回到正题。
I don't do it for any specific reason.
我这样做并不是出于任何特定原因。
I just do it.
我只是这么做。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I travel and forget to bring creatine.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我旅行时忘记带肌酸。
Andrew Huberman: So I'm like, okay, yeah, but most of the time I'm taking five to ten grams a day.
Andrew Huberman：所以我想，好吧，是的，但大多数时候我每天服用五到十克。
Okay.
好的。
We've heard about the body benefits, the brain benefits.
我们听说过对身体的好处，对大脑的好处。
For athletes and just "exercisers," the typical person listening to this podcast.
对于运动员和“锻炼者”，即收听此播客的典型人。
Do you recommend creatine?
你推荐肌酸吗？
What are, what are some of the things that in your household, I'm getting this picture and I've been in your home and I will say that the spirit in your home is a wonderful one.
你家里有什么东西，我拍到了这张照片，我去过你家，我会说你家里的精神是美妙的。
Brian MacKenzie and I showed up more or less unannounced at one point.
布莱恩·麦肯齐和我有一次或多或少地未经事先通知就出现了。
And like, there's, it's.
就像，有，有。
It's a delightful thing, like people's spirits are up.
这是一件令人高兴的事情，就像人们的精神振奋一样。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: It's a space station.
Kelly Starrett 博士：这是一个空间站。
It's a space station of stoke.
这是斯托克的一个空间站。
And like, you want to be part of it, you can come in.
就像，你想成为其中的一部分，你可以进来。
Andrew Huberman: Thank you.
安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢。
It's a great environment, and it was very warming to see that.
这是一个很棒的环境，看到这一点很温暖。
And the way that you embrace all these different aspects of life and your...
以及你拥抱生活的所有这些不同方面的方式以及你的......
it's busy and it's hectic and it's fun and people care for one another and they're direct with one another, but in a way that's really supportive.
这里很忙碌，很忙碌，很有趣，人们互相关心，彼此直接，但在某种程度上是真正的支持。
It's really, in my mind, a great model for a home.
在我看来，这确实是一个很棒的住宅模型。
And it really stayed with me, and it's really a pleasure to reflect on.
它确实留在了我的脑海里，回想起来真的很高兴。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: High five J Star.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：高五 J 星。
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, it's a team effort in there for sure.
Andrew Huberman：是的，这肯定是团队的努力。
So I'll just ask this.
所以我就问这个。
What supplements do you think are, if not necessary, then highly desirable for most people and then for athletes and maybe because we get this question a lot now, especially after Stacy came on the podcast, for your, the female athletes you work with in particular.
如果没有必要，您认为哪些补充剂对于大多数人以及运动员来说是非常理想的，也许是因为我们现在经常收到这个问题，特别是在史黛西出现在播客之后，对于您，尤其是与您一起工作的女运动员。
Are there supplements that add on to that initial batch?
是否有补充品添加到第一批产品中？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: So I think we.
Kelly Starrett 博士：所以我认为我们。
We can divide these things of, like, into food-like things, right.
我们可以把这些东西分成类似食物的东西，对吧。
And then sort of perform--
然后执行——
Andrew Huberman: Yeah, like whey protein.
Andrew Huberman：是的，就像乳清蛋白一样。
It's just a protein replacement.
它只是蛋白质的替代品。
High, high-quality, high protein-to-calorie ratio.
高、高质量、高蛋白质热量比。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's right.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：没错。
And if you don't handle whey, like my athletes, I'm like, let me introduce you to these vegetarian proteins.
如果你不处理乳清，就像我的运动员一样，我想，让我向你介绍这些素食蛋白。
And that's because you're having a hard time timing your meals or just getting enough protein because you, sometimes you just don't feel like it.
那是因为你很难安排进餐时间，或者很难获得足够的蛋白质，因为有时你只是不喜欢这样。
So great, great utilization there.
太棒了，利用率很高。
For Caroline, she gets omegas at night because she doesn't want to have any accidental fish burp at school.
对于卡罗琳来说，她晚上会吃欧米茄，因为她不想在学校里意外地打嗝。
She's a teenager, so she takes them before she goes to bed.
她还是个十几岁的孩子，所以她在睡觉前服用它们。
And we're really interested in brain health, and there's some early research and again, not my expertise that I've heard of, read about, talked to people about that vitamin D, creatine and omegas might help attenuate symptoms of concussion if they get hit, right?
我们对大脑健康非常感兴趣，有一些早期研究，但我听说过、读到过、与人们谈论过维生素 D、肌酸和欧米伽可能有助于减轻脑震荡症状，这不是我的专业知识，对吗？
So post, pre.
所以发帖，前。
So those things are on Caroline.
所以这些事情都在卡罗琳身上。
She gets creatine every day.
她每天都会补充肌酸。
She gets an omega every day, and she gets vitamin D.
她每天都会摄入欧米伽，并摄入维生素 D。
And some of that is.
其中一些是。
Probably gets enough vitamin D during the summer because we, I could pull it out, but we live in northern climes and they're indoors, and there's good research supplement.
可能在夏天获得足够的维生素 D，因为我们，我可以把它拿出来，但我们生活在北方气候，他们在室内，并且有很好的研究补充。
I think Dan Garner had a great piece just talking about vitamin D supplementation in the military and the decrease of, like, risk of fractures in the foot just with vitamin D.
我认为 Dan Garner 发表了一篇很棒的文章，讨论了在军队中补充维生素 D 以及仅使用维生素 D 即可降低足部骨折的风险。
So that's the start for me.
这就是我的开始。
I take a good multi because I'm like, I'm just gonna cover the bases, you know, and then you can look...
我选择了一个很好的多重因为我想，我只是要覆盖基础，你知道，然后你可以看......
I think the next sort of valence of interest is, have you had a blood panel?
我认为下一个感兴趣的价是，你做过血液检测吗？
How are your vitamin B levels?
您的维生素 B 水平如何？
Is there anything we need to do based on your environment or your genetics?
根据您的环境或基因，我们需要做些什么吗？
And then I think it gets real in the weeds, past that and again, play around with that.
然后我认为它在杂草中变得真实，超越它并再次尝试它。
One of my super smart friends was like, I think you should take a statin, a small-dose statin once a week.
我的一位超级聪明的朋友说，我认为你应该服用他汀类药物，每周一次小剂量的他汀类药物。
And I was like, all right.
我当时想，好吧。
So I was like, better take some CoQ10 with that.
所以我想，最好同时服用一些 CoQ10。
It's an experiment I'm running.
这是我正在进行的一个实验。
Right.
正确的。
The downsides are low.
缺点是低。
I'm getting my blood panels.
我正在做血液检查。
Talk to my physician.
和我的医生谈谈。
But so CoQ10 is on the menu for me just to make sure I don't have anything.
但我的菜单上有 CoQ10，只是为了确保我没有任何东西。
And so I think suddenly what we should be looking at is how do I round out?
所以我突然想到我们应该关注的是我该如何完成？
My family doesn't eat fish, so we're not getting enough sort of omegas from those sources.
我的家人不吃鱼，所以我们没有从这些来源获得足够的欧米茄。
And no one will eat walnuts.
而且没有人会吃核桃。
But I'm the only one eating walnuts.
但我是唯一一个吃核桃的人。
So, you know, how do I round out my nutrition with some supplementation.
所以，你知道，我如何通过补充来完善我的营养。
And is there a benefit for some other things that, with my genetics or with what's going on?
与我的基因或正在发生的事情相比，对其他一些事情是否有好处？
Like, J Star has a mutated MTFHR gene.
例如，J Star 的 MTFHR 基因发生了突变。
Right.
正确的。
And so we are always watching B vitamins for her.
所以我们一直在关注她的 B 族维生素。
Right.
正确的。
Andrew Huberman: Because methylator?
Andrew Huberman：因为甲基化剂？
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Right.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士： 是的。
Poor methylator.
可怜的甲基化器。
Exactly.
确切地。
Andrew Huberman: J Star is his wife.
安德鲁·休伯曼：J Star 是他的妻子。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: That's right.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：没错。
Sorry.
对不起。
J.
J。
Stizzle, CEO.
斯蒂兹尔，首席执行官。
Andrew Huberman: You guys have such an awesome relationship.
Andrew Huberman：你们的关系非常好。
You guys have poked fun at one another.
你们互相取笑。
You're clearly awesome companions to one another, and you do great, great work together.
你们显然是一对很棒的伙伴，而且你们一起完成了非常非常出色的工作。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: I am the broken anchor of the relationship.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：我是这段关系中破碎的锚。
I like, so she is, you know what's really interesting is I have, I'm a little bit like you.
我喜欢，她也是，你知道真正有趣的是我，我有点像你。
I think I'm excitable.
我想我很兴奋。
I get obsessed with things.
我对事物着迷。
It's super fun.
超级有趣。
Go down rabbit holes.
钻进兔子洞。
I like to experiment.
我喜欢尝试。
And J Star is like, the true north.
而J Star就像是，真正的北方。
Like, no, that sounds fishy.
就像，不，这听起来很可疑。
We're not doing that.
我们不会那样做。
I came home one time, and.
有一次我回家了，然后。
And I was like, you know what?
我当时想，你知道吗？
This cow's milk is out of here.
这牛奶是从这里出来的。
Our family is only drinking goat milk.
我们家只喝羊奶。
I only had the best goat milk.
我只喝了最好的羊奶。
I just had the best goat milk.
我刚刚喝了最好的羊奶。
And Juliet was like, sure, that's gonna last.
朱丽叶说，当然，这会持续下去。
And I gave some goat milk to Georgia, and she's like, hucked it across the room.
我给了乔治亚一些羊奶，她把它扔到了房间的另一边。
She's a baby.
她是个婴儿。
And then I drank the goat milk and, like, vomited into the sink, and I had goat milk on my lip.
然后我喝了羊奶，然后吐到了水槽里，我的嘴唇上沾满了羊奶。
And I, and Juliet just is so patient by saying, huh, I wonder if that's a good idea.
我和朱丽叶非常耐心地说，嗯，我想知道这是否是一个好主意。
I wonder if you will stick around.
我想知道你是否会留下来。
Andrew Huberman: So she's the rudder.
安德鲁·休伯曼：所以她是舵。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: She is 100% the rudder.
Kelly Starrett 博士：她是 100% 的舵手。
She is a three-time world champion, everyone.
大家好，她是三届世界冠军。
She's, she's a rower at Cal and she is my training partner.
她是，她是加州的一名赛艇运动员，也是我的训练伙伴。
She's the greatest training partner I've ever had.
她是我遇到过的最好的训练伙伴。
We use training as another way of spending time together.
我们将培训作为共度时光的另一种方式。
Andrew Huberman: I love it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：我喜欢它。
Thanks for sharing a little bit of the picture of your home.
感谢您分享一些您家的照片。
It matches exactly my experience.
这完全符合我的经验。
Chaos and chaos.
混沌与混乱。
A little bit of chaos and a ton of love.
一点混乱和大量的爱。
And I've been quoting him a lot lately.
最近我经常引用他的话。
I cannot take any credit for this, but Naval, who is, you know, kind of famous on various podcasts, he says, you know what, what are we really shooting for in life?
我对此不能有任何功劳，但是纳瓦尔，你知道，他在各种播客上很有名，他说，你知道吗，我们在生活中真正追求的是什么？
It's a fit, energetic body.
这是一个健康、充满活力的身体。
This is Naval, not me, by the way.
顺便说一句，这是海军，不是我。
He said fit, energetic body, a calm mind and resources.
他说，身体健康，精力充沛，头脑冷静，资源丰富。
We gotta have resources and a home full of love.
我们必须有资源和充满爱的家。
So I don't know.
所以我不知道。
Yeah, I think that's the list.
是的，我想这就是清单。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: Spend the rest of your life working on those and you're gonna have a really, it's gonna be really fun and I, I just want to remind people, you hear me say it again, that they should all be enjoyable and it is fun to track.
凯利·斯塔雷特博士：用你的余生来研究这些，你会得到一个非常非常有趣的结果，我只是想提醒人们，你听我再说一遍，他们都应该是令人愉快的，而且追踪也很有趣。
And it's also, you know, which, which devices am I wearing right now?
而且，你知道，我现在佩戴的是哪些、哪些设备？
I'm not wearing a single device, you know, because I want to feel and sometimes I track and sometimes I don't track and how am I feeling?
我没有佩戴任何设备，你知道，因为我想要感受，有时我跟踪，有时我不跟踪，我感觉如何？
And ultimately everything is really coming down to how do I come to understand my own process and my interaction with the world process.
最终，一切都归结为我如何理解自己的过程以及我与世界过程的互动。
And I think I'm getting better at 51 of knowing I don't need six cookies and I really need to get more fruits and vegetables and sleep and I don't need a device to tell me that.
我想我在 51 岁的时候会变得更好，因为我知道我不需要六块饼干，我真的需要更多的水果和蔬菜以及睡眠，而且我不需要一个设备来告诉我这一点。
Andrew Huberman: Love it.
安德鲁·休伯曼：喜欢。
Well, Kelly, Dr. Starrett, thank you so much for coming on here today and sharing with us so much wisdom.
好吧，凯利，斯塔雷特博士，非常感谢您今天来到这里并与我们分享如此多的智慧。
We covered so much.
我们涵盖了这么多。
You covered so much.
你涵盖了这么多。
I mean, pelvic floor, fascia, cold, heat, movement patterns.
我的意思是，骨盆底、筋膜、冷、热、运动模式。
You give us a ton of practical tools; getting down on the floor, sit, stand, and on and on.
您为我们提供了大量实用工具；趴在地板上，坐着，站着，等等。
But a small portal into the vast amount of knowledge you have in that head of yours.
但这只是一个通往你头脑中的大量知识的小门户。
And I just have to say that, you know, it's been a delight today because these little bits have come through about who I know you to be in the rest of the world.
我只想说，你知道，今天真是令人高兴，因为这些点点滴滴都让我了解了你在世界其他地方的身份。
This is the real world.
这就是真实的世界。
We just happen to have microphones in front of us.
我们只是碰巧面前有麦克风。
The rest of the world.
世界其他地方。
And you've been at this a while.
你已经这样做有一段时间了。
This business of trying to help people figure out best ways to move, how to be a better athlete, how to, you know, improve one's fitness, how to take a rational, fun, hardworking approach at times, but also fun, playful, recreational approach to this really key aspect of our health and many key aspects of our health.
这项工作试图帮助人们找出最佳的运动方式，如何成为一名更好的运动员，如何，你知道，提高一个人的健康水平，如何有时采取理性、有趣、勤奋的方法，同时也以有趣、好玩、休闲的方法来对待我们健康的这个真正关键的方面以及我们健康的许多关键方面。
So I just want to thank you for coming here today, for doing the work that you do and you know, you are one of the real ones, as they say.
所以我只想感谢你们今天来到这里，感谢你们所做的工作，你们知道，正如他们所说，你们是真正的人之一。
Oh my brother, thank you.
噢，我的兄弟，谢谢你。
Thank you so much.
太感谢了。
And you walk the walk.
你就这样走下去。
You're strong, you can go far, you have fun doing it.
你很坚强，你可以走得很远，你乐在其中。
You're a great husband and dad and you've been a great friend to me.
你是一位伟大的丈夫和父亲，也是我的好朋友。
So thanks for coming on here.
感谢您来到这里。
Let's get you back again.
让我们再次带你回来。
And just thanks for being you.
感谢你成为你。
Dr. Kelly Starrett: My pleasure, anytime.
Kelly Starrett 博士：我很高兴，随时都可以。
And thanks to all the great Huberman people that make this thing possible.
感谢所有伟大的休伯曼人使这一切成为可能。
It's really a thing.
这确实是一件事。
Thanks, my brother.
谢谢，我的兄弟。
Andrew Huberman: Thank you.
安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢。
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Kelly Starrett.
感谢您参加今天与凯利·斯塔雷特博士的讨论。
To learn more about Kelly Starrett and the work that he does with his wife, Juliet Starrett, at the Ready State, as well as to find links to Dr. Starrett's excellent books, please see the show note captions.
要了解有关凯利·斯塔雷特 (Kelly Starrett) 以及他与妻子朱丽叶·斯塔雷特 (Juliet Starrett) 在“就绪州”所做的工作的更多信息，以及查找斯塔雷特博士优秀书籍的链接，请参阅节目注释标题。
If you enjoyed today's episode with Dr. Kelly Starrett and you'd like to learn more about the science of exercise physiology and the protocols that can best serve you in your fitness, athletic and other goals, you can go to hubermanlab.com, enter the word "fitness" and "galpin," G-A-L-P-I-N into the search function and from there you will find links in all formats; YouTube, Apple, Spotify, to the series that we did on exercise with Dr. Andy Galpin, who is a true world expert in this topic, and it covers all the things you could possibly imagine related to fitness and exercise to meet your fitness and exercise goals.
如果您喜欢 Kelly Starrett 博士今天的节目，并且想了解更多关于运动生理学的科学知识以及最能帮助您实现健身、运动和其他目标的协议，您可以访问 hubermanlab.com，在搜索功能中输入单词“fitness”和“galpin”、G-A-L-P-I-N，然后您将找到所有格式的链接； YouTube、Apple、Spotify，还有我们与安迪·加尔平 (Andy Galpin) 博士一起制作的关于锻炼的系列节目，他是该主题的真正的世界专家，它涵盖了您可能想象到的与健身和锻炼相关的所有内容，以实现您的健身和锻炼目标。
If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast on both Spotify and Apple, and on both Spotify and Apple you can leave us up to a five-star review.
此外，请关注 Spotify 和 Apple 上的播客，在 Spotify 和 Apple 上您都可以给我们留下五星级的评论。
Please check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对播客、嘉宾或主题有疑问或意见，希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑，请将这些问题或意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience, and it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation and of course I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这是我花了五年多时间编写的一本书，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验，涵盖了从睡眠到运动到压力控制的各个方面的方案，以及与注意力和动机相关的方案，当然，我还为所包含的方案提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body."
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。
If you're not already following me on social media, I am Huberman Lab on all social media platforms.
如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 Huberman Lab。
So that's Instagram, X, formerly known as Twitter, Threads, Facebook and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X，以前称为 Twitter、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the content on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容不同。
Again, that's Huberman Lab on all social media platforms.
再说一次，这就是所有社交媒体平台上的 Huberman Lab。
If you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network newsletter, our Neural Network newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as protocols in the form of brief one-to-three-page PDFs.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，我们的神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的每月时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及简短的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议。
Those one-to-three-page PDFs cover things like deliberate heat exposure, deliberate cold exposure.
这些一到三页的 PDF 涵盖了诸如故意热暴露、故意冷暴露等内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol.
我们有一个基本的健身协议。
We also have protocols for optimizing your sleep, dopamine, and much more.
我们还有优化您的睡眠、多巴胺等的方案。
Again, all available completely zero cost.
再次强调，所有这些都是完全零成本的。
Simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu tab, scroll down to newsletter and provide your email.
只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到菜单选项卡，向下滚动到时事通讯并提供您的电子邮件即可。
We do not share your email with anybody.
我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Kelly Starrett.
再次感谢您参加今天与凯利·斯塔雷特博士的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。