Dr. Emily Balcetis: Tools for Setting & Achieving Goals
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
Today, my guest is Dr. Emily Balcetis.
今天，我的嘉宾是 Emily Balcetis 博士。
Dr. Balcetis is a professor of psychology at New York University.
巴尔塞蒂斯博士是纽约大学心理学教授。
Her laboratory studies motivation, goal-setting, and tools for successful goal completion.
她的实验室研究动机、目标设定和成功完成目标的工具。
I learned about Dr. Balcetis's work some years ago because I'm a vision scientist.
几年前，我了解了 Balcetis 博士的工作，因为我是一名视觉科学家。
That is, I study the visual system, and I heard about this incredible psychologist at New York University who was studying how vision, that is, how we visualize problems, can predict whether or not we will successfully overcome challenges, and how we strategize in order to set and meet goals.
也就是说，我研究视觉系统，我听说纽约大学有一位令人难以置信的心理学家，他正在研究视觉（即我们如何可视化问题）如何预测我们是否会成功克服挑战，以及我们如何制定策略以设定和实现目标。
And in 2020, I learned of Dr. Balcetis's book, which was written for the general public, entitled "Clearer, Closer, Better: How Successful People See the World." And I read both the hard copy of the book and listened to the audiobook, and I absolutely loved the material.
2020年，我了解到巴尔塞蒂斯博士的书，这是一本为普通大众写的书，书名是《更清晰、更近、更好：成功人士如何看待世界》。我读了这本书的纸质版并听了有声读物，我非常喜欢这些材料。
As you'll learn directly from Dr. Balcetis today, how people visualize a problem, that is, whether or not they think of a goal or a problem as residing at the top of a very steep hill, or on the top of a shallower hill, or whether or not they visualize a goal or a problem as far off in the distance or closer to them in the distance, visually, in their mind, strongly dictates whether or not they will arrive at the challenge of meeting a goal or overcoming a problem with more energy or less energy.
正如您今天将直接从巴尔塞蒂斯博士那里学到的那样，人们如何形象化一个问题，也就是说，他们是否认为一个目标或问题是位于一个非常陡峭的山顶上，还是一个较浅的山顶上，或者他们是否将一个目标或问题想象成距离他们较远或距离较近，在视觉上，在他们的头脑中，强烈决定了他们是否会以更多的精力或更少的精力来迎接实现目标或克服问题的挑战。
Indeed, it dictates whether or not they can push to immediate milestones or whether or not they will think they have to overcome the entire task all at once.
事实上，它决定了他们是否能够立即实现里程碑，或者他们是否认为自己必须一次性完成整个任务。
Basically, Dr. Balcetis's work has discovered that how we visualize a problem or a goal in our mind has everything to do with how we lean into that goal, whether or not we think of it as overwhelming or tractable.
基本上，巴尔塞蒂斯博士的工作发现，我们如何在脑海中想象一个问题或一个目标，与我们如何实现该目标密切相关，无论我们是否认为它是压倒性的或易于处理的。
Whether or not we think that we can overcome that goal and then it will lead to yet more possible rewards and goals, or whether or not we feel that we're going to arrive at the finish line and then just be overwhelmed with fatigue.
无论我们是否认为我们可以克服这个目标，然后它将带来更多可能的奖励和目标，或者我们是否认为我们将到达终点线，然后只是因疲劳而不知所措。
In other words, how you visualize things in your mind, and when I say visualize, I mean literally how you visualize them as a visual problem or a visual goal, has everything to do with whether or not you will be able to meet those goals and whether or not they will lead to still greater goals that you'll be able to achieve.
换句话说，你如何在脑海中想象事物，当我说想象时，我的意思是字面上你如何将它们想象为视觉问题或视觉目标，这与你是否能够实现这些目标以及它们是否会导致你能够实现的更大目标息息相关。
Today's episode is an especially important one, I believe, because you're going to learn about quality peer-reviewed science from the expert in this field of goal setting, motivation, and pursuit, and you're also going to learn an immense number of practical tools that you can apply toward your educational goals, your career goals, relationship goals, goals of any sort.
我相信，今天的这一集特别重要，因为你将从目标设定、动机和追求领域的专家那里学习高质量的同行评审科学，你还将学习大量实用工具，你可以将它们应用于你的教育目标、职业目标、关系目标、任何类型的目标。
By the end of today's episode, you will be better equipped to set and achieve your goals.
在今天的课程结束时，您将能够更好地设定和实现您的目标。
Dr. Balcetis also shares with us her own experiences of how to set, visualize, and achieve goals, and she does that within the context of her role as a parent, as somebody navigating relationships of various kinds, and a demanding career.
巴尔塞蒂斯博士还与我们分享了她自己关于如何设定、想象和实现目标的经验，她是在作为父母、作为处理各种关系的人以及高要求的职业的背景下做到这一点的。
So again, I think that you'll find the information today to be both extremely academically grounded in terms of research, extremely practical, and realistic in terms of how you might apply it in your own life.
再说一次，我认为您会发现今天的信息在研究方面非常具有学术基础，在如何将其应用到您自己的生活方面非常实用且现实。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
And now for my discussion with Dr. Emily Balcetis.
现在我与 Emily Balcetis 博士进行讨论。
Well, thanks for being here.
嗯，谢谢你来到这里。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
It's my pleasure.
这是我的荣幸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I've been looking forward to this for a long time, because as a vision scientist who is also very interested in real-life tools and goal setting and motivation, your work lands squarely in the middle of those interests.
我对此期待已久，因为作为一名视觉科学家，他对现实生活中的工具、目标设定和动机也非常感兴趣，你的工作正好落在这些兴趣的中间。
So just to kick things off, could you tell us just a little bit about the relationship between perception and, in particular, how we see the world and goal setting and goal retrieval?
首先，您能否告诉我们一些关于感知之间的关系，特别是我们如何看待世界以及目标设定和目标检索之间的关系？
It's a vast landscape, but you're the expert, so I'll turn that over to you.
这是一个广阔的领域，但你是专家，所以我会把它交给你。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then, as time goes on, I may have some additional questions as it relates to different kinds of vision, but what's the deal with vision and motivation?
然后，随着时间的推移，我可能会有一些额外的问题，因为它与不同类型的愿景相关，但愿景和动机有什么关系呢？
How do those two things link up?
这两件事如何联系起来？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah, totally.
是的，完全可以。
When psychologists ask people, "What are you doing to help make progress on your goals?" They say all kinds of things.
当心理学家问人们：“你正在做什么来帮助实现你的目标？”他们说各种各样的事情。
A couple of things always pop to the top, which is, try to talk to myself in encouraging ways, self-pep talks, or I remind myself of how important it is to do this job, or I'll put up Post-it notes around to constantly be nagging me about what I need to do.
有几件事总是会浮出水面，那就是，尝试以鼓励的方式自言自语，自我激励谈话，或者我提醒自己做这份工作是多么重要，或者我会在周围贴上便利贴，不断地唠叨我需要做什么。
So those are common tactics that people use, and what we'll notice is that those are really effortful.
这些是人们使用的常见策略，我们会注意到这些策略确实非常有效。
Having to constantly remind yourself, having to constantly talk to yourself, having to create those Post-it notes and remember to look at them, all of that takes a lot of time and effort and commitment.
必须不断提醒自己，必须不断地自言自语，必须创建便利贴并记得查看它们，所有这些都需要大量的时间、精力和承诺。
And so what a surprise that people burn out.
人们精疲力竭真是令人惊讶。
Right?
正确的？
It's exciting to work on a goal.
为一个目标而努力是令人兴奋的。
When you first set it, you might make some initial progress, but then eventually we get not even to the halfway point before things get real, things are challenging, and we fall by the wayside.
当你第一次设定它时，你可能会取得一些初步进展，但最终我们甚至连中间点都没有达到，事情变得真实，事情充满挑战，我们就半途而废了。
And that's, I think, because those tactics that are our go-to strategies are themselves a goal to maintain.
我认为，这是因为我们的首选策略本身就是要维持的目标。
So it's double-sided.
所以它是双面的。
We're putting so much on ourselves to try to advance the thing that we originally set out to accomplish.
我们为自己付出了很多努力来推进我们最初打算完成的事情。
So then with my team, I was trying to think of, well, what are strategies that don't require as much effort, that we can automate?
因此，我和我的团队一起思考，什么是不需要太多努力、我们可以自动化的策略？
That we can take advantage of what's already happening within ourselves, within our body, within our mind, that might overcome one of those challenges, that'll be easier, more automated.
我们可以利用我们自己、我们的身体、我们的思想中已经发生的事情，这可能会克服这些挑战之一，这会更容易、更自动化。
And that's when we started to land on the idea of vision.
就在那时我们开始提出愿景的想法。
Right?
正确的？
We look at the world without even thinking of it, for those of us that are sighted.
对于我们这些视力正常的人来说，我们甚至不假思索地观察世界。
And we thought, you know what, there are There are strategies that we can use to look at the world in a different way, and that we can automate that might help us to overcome some obstacles, to make progress on our goals, to maybe literally see opportunities that we hadn't been able to see before.
我们认为，你知道吗，我们可以使用一些策略以不同的方式看待世界，并且我们可以实现自动化，这可能会帮助我们克服一些障碍，在我们的目标上取得进展，也许真的会看到我们以前从未见过的机会。
So we started playing around with the idea of visual illusions to see, do people even know that there's other ways of seeing things around them?
所以我们开始尝试用视觉错觉来观看，人们是否知道还有其他方式来观看周围的事物？
Can we tweak that?
我们可以调整一下吗？
Is there room for intervention?
有干预的余地吗？
Can we encourage people to take a new way of looking to see things that they hadn't seen before?
我们能否鼓励人们以新的方式看待他们以前从未见过的事物？
And that's what really opened us up to trying to look at that intersection between vision science and motivation science.
这才是真正让我们开始尝试研究视觉科学和动机科学之间的交叉点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's great, and I always say, and here I'm strongly biased as a vision scientist, that vision is the dominant sense by which we navigate the world and survive.
这太棒了，我总是说，作为一名视觉科学家，我对此抱有强烈的偏见，视觉是我们驾驭世界和生存的主导感觉。
I love this idea of real-world, real-time access-
我喜欢这种真实世界、实时访问的想法——
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to vision, and I'm certainly familiar with how goal setting or Post-Its and magnets on refrigerators can have an immediate impact, but then over time, they become so part of the visual landscape that you overlook them.
我当然熟悉目标设定或冰箱上的便利贴和磁铁如何产生立竿见影的影响，但随着时间的推移，它们成为视觉景观的一部分，以至于你会忽视它们。
And we know as vision scientists, if something is stably in your environment, eventually you're blind to it.
作为视觉科学家，我们知道，如果某些东西在你的环境中稳定存在，最终你就会对它视而不见。
So that makes good sense.
所以这是有道理的。
So you've published a number of studies in this area, but maybe you could highlight some of the more, what you would consider important findings in the area of how people can adjust their vision in order to meet goals more quickly and more efficiently, and perhaps also how we all arrive at goals with different visual perceptions, and that in some way may divide us into highly motivated and less motivated people.
因此，您在这一领域发表了许多研究，但也许您可以重点介绍一些您认为重要的发现，这些发现涉及人们如何调整自己的视力，以便更快、更有效地实现目标，也许还包括我们如何以不同的视觉感知实现目标，这在某种程度上可能将我们分为积极性高的人和消极性低的人。
In other words, what's the link between vision and motivation-
换句话说，愿景和动机之间有什么联系——
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and how can we leverage that in order to better reach our goals?
我们如何利用这一点来更好地实现我们的目标？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Totally.
完全可以。
So, we started thinking about what are the goals that are most important to people that they struggle with the most.
因此，我们开始思考对于那些最难以实现的人们来说最重要的目标是什么。
So we asked hundreds, thousands of people what their New Year's resolutions are.
因此，我们询问了成百上千的人，他们的新年决心是什么。
We looked to all the other polls that do the same kind of work.
我们查看了所有其他具有相同功能的民意调查。
And regardless of where you look or who you ask or when you ask it, people's number one goal is something related to their health, right?
无论你看向哪里、向谁询问或何时询问，人们的首要目标都是与他们的健康相关，对吗？
To lose weight, to exercise more, to get out, get more steps for mental well-being, physical well-being, and that's the number one goal every January 1st.
减肥、多锻炼、出去走走、多走几步以保持心理健康、身体健康，这是每年 1 月 1 日的首要目标。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
So if we were able to accomplish that goal, you'd think it would drop a little bit in the rankings.
因此，如果我们能够实现这一目标，您可能会认为它的排名会下降一些。
But it doesn't, because it's really hard.
但事实并非如此，因为这真的很难。
So we thought, I wonder if there's a way for us to make some progress on that, on helping people to exercise better, more often, stick to it longer, and make some progress there.
所以我们想，我想知道是否有办法让我们在这方面取得一些进展，帮助人们更好、更频繁地锻炼，坚持更长时间，并在那里取得一些进展。
We know diets don't work.
我们知道节食是行不通的。
Why don't diets work?
为什么节食不起作用？
For the same reason that that self-talk doesn't work, is that we go in it full bore, hardcore, and it requires a major commitment and effort to a lifestyle change.
出于同样的原因，自言自语不起作用，我们会全力以赴、顽固地投入其中，并且需要对生活方式的改变做出重大承诺和努力。
So again, we were looking for something that might be easier than that, that could produce big payoff, right?
再说一遍，我们正在寻找可能比这更容易、可以产生巨大回报的东西，对吗？
That's the golden ticket, something that requires less effort for a bigger payoff.
这就是一张金票，只需付出更少的努力就能获得更大的回报。
So one of the first things that I did was go over to Brooklyn to this old armory building.
所以我做的第一件事就是去布鲁克林这座古老的军械库大楼。
It used to be a military armory space.
它曾经是一个军事军械库空间。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think I know that building.
我想我认识那栋楼。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a beautiful building now that houses a lot of businesses, right?
现在这是一栋漂亮的建筑，里面有很多企业，对吧？
With plants on the walls.
墙上有植物。
Is that the one?
就是那个吗？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
There's businesses, there's a couple of armories all around the boroughs here around New York City.
纽约市周围的行政区都有企业，有几个军械库。
And the one in Brooklyn, in particular, is now a YMCA, right?
尤其是布鲁克林的那个，现在是基督教青年会，对吧？
So it's a family YMCA that's within this beautiful, old red brick building that used to be a military establishment long, long ago.
这是一个家庭基督教青年会，位于这座美丽的古老红砖建筑内，很久很久以前曾是军事设施。
And what's really cool is that one winter afternoon, somebody had invited me, a physical therapist, said, "Hey, you should come out and check out what's happening here.
真正酷的是，一个冬天的下午，有人邀请我，一名物理治疗师，对我说：“嘿，你应该出来看看这里发生了什么。
With your interest in exercise and trying to find new ways of helping people, new tactics that they can add to their tool belt, I think you're going to find some interesting people that are working out there." So I showed up.
如果你对锻炼感兴趣，并试图寻找帮助人们的新方法，他们可以添加到他们的工具带中的新策略，我想你会发现一些有趣的人在那里锻炼。”所以我出现了。
I look around.
我环顾四周。
There's families, there's new moms, there's moms trying to get kids to burn off some winter energy that they have.
有家庭，有新妈妈，有妈妈试图让孩子们消耗掉她们拥有的一些冬季能量。
There's people that look like they're just there for their every couple of days going out for a run.
有些人看起来就像每隔几天就出去跑步一样。
There's some people that look like they're training with a team.
有些人看起来像是在和一个团队一起训练。
And that's who this physical therapist introduced me to, was the coach of this team.
这位物理治疗师向我介绍了他，他是这支球队的教练。
There's a bunch of people that were sitting down on the ground, and I would be hard-pressed to know who's the high school student that's in this group, and then who, as it turns out, are some of the fastest runners in the world.
有一群人坐在地上，我很难知道这群人中谁是高中生，然后谁是世界上跑得最快的人之一。
One of the people that was in the last Olympics before I showed up won the gold medal for the 400 meter.
在我出现之前参加上届奥运会的一个人赢得了 400 米金牌。
And from the looks of them, of course, their bodies are in better shape than mine, but there's nothing so pretentious.
而且从他们的样子来看，当然，他们的身材比我的好，但也没有什么那么造作的。
Of course, they're not wearing their medals.
当然，他们没有佩戴奖牌。
There's nothing pretentious about how they're walking around or anything like that that would lead me to know this person's amazing, and they probably have some insight that I don't have.
他们的走路方式没有任何自命不凡的地方，或者类似的事情会让我知道这个人很了不起，而且他们可能有一些我没有的洞察力。
So once I got introduced to them and knew who are these people that were part of this pretty elite training team that happened to work out at this family gym, I had the chance to talk with them about what strategies do you use.
因此，当我被介绍给他们并知道这些人是谁，他们是这个恰好在这个家庭健身房锻炼的精英训练团队的成员时，我就有机会与他们讨论你们使用什么策略。
Now, I am not an elite runner, and having recently had a baby, I'm not really a runner right now at all.
现在，我不是一个精英跑步者，而且最近生了孩子，我现在根本不是一个真正的跑步者。
But I thought when these people are running, I bet they are hyper-aware of everything that's going on in their surroundings.
但我想，当这些人跑步时，我敢打赌他们对周围发生的一切都非常了解。
Where are they relative to the competition?
与竞争对手相比，它们处于什么位置？
What's happening in their peripheral vision?
他们的余光发生了什么？
What's going on on the side?
旁边发生什么事了？
Who's behind them?
他们背后是谁？
Who's in front of them?
他们前面是谁？
They probably have this master sense, this master visual plan at any point in time, and that's what probably makes them elite.
他们可能在任何时候都有这种大师的感觉，这种大师的视觉计划，这可能使他们成为精英。
So when I started asking them, "Is that the case?
所以当我开始问他们：“是这样吗？
Do you really pay attention to what's in your surroundings, what's behind you, what's on the side?" They said, "No." All of them said, "No. And sometimes when I do do that, it's a mistake.
你真的关注周围的事物、背后的事物、侧面的事物吗？”他们说：“不。”他们所有人都说：“不。有时当我这样做时，这是一个错误。
It doesn't work for me." So that was surprising.
这对我不起作用。”所以这很令人惊讶。
It totally went against my intuition about what they do that likely contributes to their success.
这完全违背了我的直觉，即他们所做的事情可能有助于他们的成功。
What they said instead was that they are hyper-focused.
相反，他们说的是他们过于专注。
They assume this narrowed focus of attention, almost like a spotlight is shining on a target.
他们假设这种注意力集中的情况，几乎就像聚光灯照在目标上一样。
Now, when they're running a short distance, that target might literally be the finish line, the line that they're trying to cross.
现在，当他们跑一小段距离时，该目标实际上可能就是终点线，即他们试图跨越的线。
If it's a longer distance, they set sub-goals, like the shorts on the person up ahead that they're trying to beat, or they choose some sort of stable landmark, like a sign that they would pass by.
如果距离较长，他们会设定子目标，例如他们试图击败前面的人的短裤，或者他们选择某种稳定的地标，例如他们会经过的标志。
And a spotlight is shining just on that, or they have blinders on the sides of their face.
聚光灯正好照在他们身上，或者他们的脸两侧戴着眼罩。
That's all they're paying attention to.
这就是他们所关注的一切。
It's a really narrowed scope of attention.
这是一个非常狭窄的关注范围。
And that was a strategy that all of these elite athletes said that they used, and those that were better rather than slower were ones that used it more.
所有这些精英运动员都说他们使用了这一策略，而那些表现更好而不是更慢的人则使用得更多。
And I thought, "Oh, that's something we can play with." They are elite and they are accomplished, but that visual strategy isn't necessarily something that you have to be in the perfect physical condition to be able to adopt.
我想，“哦，这是我们可以玩的东西。”他们都是精英，而且都很有成就，但是这种视觉策略并不一定是你必须处于完美的身体状况才能采用的。
And so I wonder, can that help the rest of us who aren't competing for an Olympic gold and who have no chance of ever getting one, but who want to exercise better, have a better time doing it, and maintain a commitment to that exercise goal that they might have that they might otherwise, by February or March, be giving up on if they had set it at the beginning of January.
所以我想知道，这是否可以帮助我们其他人，他们不是在争夺奥运金牌，也没有机会获得金牌，但想要更好地锻炼，享受更好的锻炼时间，并保持对锻炼目标的承诺，否则，如果他们在一月初设定了锻炼目标，到二月或三月，他们可能会放弃。
So that's really where the work started, was what you might call focus groups or case studies of these incredible athletes.
这就是工作真正开始的地方，你可以称之为焦点小组或这些令人难以置信的运动员的案例研究。
And then we did other studies looking at people who aren't Olympic athletes but who are competitive New York Road Runners runners, and how are they running in races.
然后我们做了其他研究，观察那些不是奥运会运动员但参加纽约公路跑比赛的人，以及他们在比赛中的表现。
And what we found is that those people who have better pace, faster pace, better time, they use that narrowed strategy more often than this more expansive or open scope of attention.
我们发现，那些节奏更快、节奏更快、时间更充足的人，他们更频繁地使用缩小的策略，而不是更广泛或开放的注意力范围。
And there seemed to be a correlation between that better performance among a wider swath of hundreds of runners who are doing it competitively, but still could be like the person that you're sitting next to in the office or yourself.
数百名跑步者的更好表现似乎存在相关性，这些跑步者正在竞争性地进行跑步，但仍然可能像办公室里坐在你旁边的人或你自己。
And the more often that they did it, and the more consistently they had adopted that technique of the narrowed focus of attention, it seemed that they were doing better in their runs.
他们做得越频繁，越一致地采用这种缩小注意力的技术，他们的跑步成绩似乎就越好。
So then we started thinking, like, okay, what about people who aren't competitive runners?
然后我们开始思考，好吧，那些不是竞技跑步者的人怎么办？
What about my mom?
我妈妈呢？
Can she do that?
她能做到吗？
Or me when I'm trying to get back on the bandwagon and exercise more?
或者当我试图重新跟上潮流并进行更多锻炼时？
Is this a tactic we can teach people?
这是我们可以教给人们的策略吗？
The answer is yes.
答案是肯定的。
You can tell people about what these Olympic athletes are doing.
你可以告诉人们这些奥运会运动员在做什么。
You can tell them about what the New York Road Runners runners are doing, and just using the same language that I just used with you.
你可以告诉他们纽约路跑者正在做什么，并且使用我刚刚与你使用的相同语言。
Imagine that there's a spotlight shining just on a target.
想象一下，有一束聚光灯正好照射在一个目标上。
Choose something up ahead, the stop sign two blocks up that you can just see.
选择前面的某个东西，两个街区外的停车标志，你就可以看到。
And imagine that you have blinders on so that you're not really paying attention to the people that are passing by, or the buildings, or the garbage cans, or the trucks that are on the road.
想象一下，你戴着眼罩，这样你就没有真正注意到路过的人、建筑物、垃圾桶或路上的卡车。
Tune those out and focus in on that target until you hit it, and then choose another one.
调整这些目标并专注于该目标，直到实现它，然后选择另一个目标。
Sort of recalibrate, choose the next goal.
重新调整，选择下一个目标。
And so we would test, can people do that?
所以我们会测试，人们能做到吗？
If you're listening right now, you probably are imagining that experience, too, and the answer is yes.
如果你现在正在听，你可能也在想象那种经历，答案是肯定的。
I can imagine that.
我可以想象。
I know what those words mean, and I can do that.
我知道这些话的意思，我也能做到。
And our work found that, too, that people can do that.
我们的研究也发现人们可以做到这一点。
We have them say out loud, what is it that's captured your attention?
我们让他们大声说出来，是什么吸引了你的注意力？
And of course, sometimes something in the periphery, like movement, captures our gaze, and we are pulled there for an instant, but then we can refocus up again and adopt that narrowed attention.
当然，有时外围的某些东西，比如运动，会吸引我们的目光，我们会被暂时拉到那里，但随后我们可以再次重新集中注意力，并采用这种狭窄的注意力。
Now, one of the first studies that we did was teach that strategy and juxtapose or compare it against a group that we said, "Just look around naturally.
现在，我们所做的第一项研究就是教授这种策略，并将其与我们所说的“自然环顾四周”的小组进行并列或比较。
You might see that finish line up ahead, and there's things on the periphery.
您可能会看到前方有终点线，并且外围有一些东西。
Whatever your eyes want to do, whatever you think is going to work best, feel free to do that and tell us what you're looking at." Then we gave them a finish line.
无论您的眼睛想要做什么，无论您认为效果最好，请随意执行并告诉我们您在看什么。”然后我们给了他们一个终点线。
We created an exercise that's moderately challenging, but possible.
我们创建了一个具有一定挑战性但可行的练习。
We put ankle weights on that accounted for about 15% of their body weight, told them to lift their knees up, sort of high-stepping to a finish line.
我们将约占他们体重 15% 的脚踝重量放在脚踝上，告诉他们抬起膝盖，有点高步冲向终点线。
So this would be challenging for them to do, but we said it's an indicator of overall health and fitness.
所以这对他们来说是一个挑战，但我们说这是整体健康和健身的指标。
Some of these people had narrowed their focus of attention, and some were just looking more expansively or naturally.
其中一些人的注意力集中范围缩小了，而另一些人只是看起来更广阔或更自然。
And what we found is that those people that we trained, just everyday, normal people doing this moderately challenging exercise, they were able to move 27% faster.
我们发现，我们训练的那些人，只是每天做这种中等挑战性练习的普通人，他们的移动速度提高了 27%。
They could do the exercise more quickly, and they said it hurt 17% less.
他们可以更快地完成这项练习，并且他们表示疼痛减轻了 17%。
The exercise was exactly the same for all the people.
对于所有人来说，练习都是完全相同的。
We set the weight, we set the distance.
我们设置重量，我们设置距离。
It was in our lab space, so it was a constrained environment.
这是在我们的实验室空间，所以环境很有限。
Everybody was in the same sort of circumstance, but yet their experience was really different.
每个人都处于同样的境遇，但他们的经历却截然不同。
We helped them to move faster, burn calories at a higher rate.
我们帮助他们移动得更快，以更高的速度燃烧卡路里。
Exercise more efficiently.
锻炼更有效。
The amount of time they put in is going to produce a better physical outcome.
他们投入的时间将会产生更好的身体效果。
And it also didn't hurt them.
这也没有伤害他们。
They're saying it doesn't hurt as much.
他们说这并没有那么痛。
So we were really excited about that, because it meant that this strategy, we could use it on people who are not elite athletes.
所以我们对此感到非常兴奋，因为这意味着我们可以将这种策略用于非精英运动员的人。
It could be easily adopted.
它很容易被采用。
A quick training session can teach people to look at the world in a different way.
快速培训课程可以教会人们以不同的方式看待世界。
Again, this narrowed attention was different than whatever they do naturally, the comparison group, but it had a big outcome.
同样，这种狭窄的注意力与对照组的自然行为不同，但它产生了很大的结果。
It had a big difference on the way that they were engaged in the exercise.
他们参与锻炼的方式有很大的不同。
That was some of the first work that we did, and then since then, we've done dozens more studies to look at, well, what happens with that, and what else can we do with playing around with this?
这是我们所做的第一项工作，从那时起，我们又做了数十项研究，看看会发生什么，以及我们还能做些什么呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, those are impressive differences as a consequence of narrowing visual attention.
是的，由于视觉注意力的缩小，这些差异令人印象深刻。
A couple of questions about the actual practice of narrowing attention.
关于缩小注意力的实际实践的几个问题。
Is there any indication of whether or not subjects are constantly updating their visual attention?
是否有任何迹象表明受试者是否不断更新他们的视觉注意力？
So for instance, let's say the goal line is in view literally from the beginning.
举例来说，假设从一开始就可以看到球门线。
I could imagine just holding visual attention on the goal line.
我可以想象只是将视觉注意力集中在球门线上。
But if it's an oval track or it's a trajectory along a trail or through a city, how often do you think they are updating their visual aperture and setting a visual goal?
但是，如果它是椭圆形轨道，或者是沿着小路或穿过城市的轨迹，您认为他们多久更新一次视觉光圈并设定视觉目标？
And I could imagine that there's some energetic expense to that.
我可以想象这会带来一些能量消耗。
You wouldn't want to do every crack on the sidewalk unless those cracks on the sidewalk were very far apart.
您不会想要对人行道上的每条裂缝进行处理，除非人行道上的这些裂缝相距很远。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I think at some point, that itself would be exhausting.
因为我认为在某些时候，这本身就会让人筋疲力尽。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So is there an optimal strategy or a semi-optimal strategy?
那么是否存在最优策略或半最优策略呢？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
So, those Olympic athletes that we started by interviewing, they tended to be sprinters.
所以，我们一开始采访的那些奥运会运动员，他们往往是短跑运动员。
They were more often sprinters, short-distance sprinters.
他们更多的是短跑运动员、短距离短跑运动员。
So when they said, "Yes, I narrow in more than I assume an expansive focus," that's because they're not going that far, right?
因此，当他们说：“是的，我缩小的范围比我想象的范围更广”，那是因为他们没有走那么远，对吧？
They have to do it as fast as humanly possible, but they're not going that far.
他们必须尽可能快地做到这一点，但他们不会走那么远。
And so we started asking that question, too, about, well, wouldn't that be tiring?
所以我们也开始问这个问题，嗯，这不会很累吗？
And the answer is yes.
答案是肯定的。
So when we start to look at, well, people who aren't sprinters, who are accomplished but who are more long-distance runners, that's what we find that they do, is that they're using that narrowed attention strategy strategically, and it increases in use.
因此，当我们开始观察那些不是短跑运动员、有成就但更擅长长跑的人时，我们发现他们正在战略性地使用这种狭隘注意力策略，而且这种策略的使用正在增加。
They use it more often as the race progresses.
随着比赛的进行，他们会更频繁地使用它。
And they really start to do this major switch about the halfway point of, say, a 10-kilometer run.
他们真正开始在大约 10 公里跑的中间点进行这种重大转变。
So people who are seasoned runners, they really start making a switch with what they're looking at about halfway through, and that's where they more often, more frequently, and are more intentionally adopting a narrowed focus of attention when they're in the last couple miles of a run, when maybe their resources are starting to get more thin, maybe their motivation is starting to fade.
所以，那些经验丰富的跑步者，在跑到一半时，他们真的会开始改变他们所关注的事物，而这就是他们在跑步的最后几英里时，更频繁、更频繁、更有意识地采用狭窄的注意力焦点的地方，此时，他们的资源可能开始变得更加稀薄，也许他们的动力开始消退。
That tipping point in the middle is with any kind of goal where people struggle the most, and that's when they're doubling down on a strategy that they know to be effective.
中间的转折点是人们最挣扎的任何目标，也就是当他们加倍努力实施他们知道有效的策略时。
So, at first, longer distance runners are not using that narrowed strategy.
因此，一开始，长距离跑步者并没有使用这种缩小策略。
They're looking more expansively, because I think that, well, first of all, distraction is a thing.
他们的目光更加广阔，因为我认为，首先，分心是一个问题。
It's useful.
这很有用。
Not necessarily that they're distracting themselves, because people are still trying to hold pace and jostle among probably a more concentrated group of runners, but it is a strategy that they use and then sort of wean off of as the race goes through.
不一定是他们分散了自己的注意力，因为人们仍然试图跟上步伐，并可能在一群更集中的跑步者中相互推挤，但这是他们使用的一种策略，然后随着比赛的进行而逐渐停止。
And it's particularly effective when we're looking for that last push, right?
当我们寻找最后的推动力时，它特别有效，对吧？
The last push to get over the finish line when you might be literally neck and neck with somebody that you're trying to just beat out, or when you're most tired, but you know that last push, you don't want to drop off.
当你可能与你想击败的人并驾齐驱时，或者当你最累的时候，最后一次冲过终点线，但你知道最后一次冲刺，你不想掉下来。
And you want to push through hard through that finish line.
你想要努力冲过终点线。
That's when people are using it at its peak level of intensity.
那是人们使用它的最高强度的时候。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I see.
我明白了。
Yeah.
是的。
To me, this makes total sense why it would work.
对我来说，这完全有道理。
Without going down the rabbit hole of visual neuroscience of something for another time, when we do these vergence eye movements, when we bring our eyes to a visual target, it's clear that some of the brain stem circuitry for alertness gets engaged to a greater degree.
不用再深入探讨视觉神经科学的兔子洞了，当我们进行这些辐散眼球运动时，当我们将眼睛转向视觉目标时，很明显，一些用于警觉性的脑干回路会更大程度地参与进来。
The other thing is that we know that when we focus on an object, that the optics of the eye change and narrow the visual field.
另一件事是，我们知道当我们聚焦于一个物体时，眼睛的光学系统会发生变化并缩小视野。
So that brings about, this is a very detailed question, but I'm sure the audience is wondering, let's say I'm focused on a goal line or an intermediate goal.
因此，这是一个非常详细的问题，但我确信观众想知道，假设我专注于球门线或中间目标。
Are they focusing on a specific point, or is it kind of the entire horizon of that goal?
他们是专注于某个特定点，还是该目标的整个范围？
Because the finish line is indeed a line.
因为终点线确实是一条线。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And, of course, it's impossible to know what someone is actually doing in their mind's eye.
当然，不可能知道某人在头脑中实际上在做什么。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But how do people report this?
但人们如何报告这一点呢？
Do they see it literally as a spotlight?
他们真的将其视为聚光灯吗？
And if so, how broad is that spot?
如果是这样，这个位置有多宽？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
So, what is the length of their aperture rather than maybe the diameter or the sphere size of it?
那么，它们的孔径长度是多少，而不是直径或球体尺寸呢？
In our interviews with people, our sort of focus group studies, it seems like it's more like a circular point, and that's in fact what we're teaching people, what we're training them to do.
在我们对人们的采访中，我们的焦点小组研究中，它看起来更像是一个循环点，而这实际上就是我们教人们做的事情，我们训练他们做的事情。
So rather than going broadly, looking across a line from left to right, we are encouraging them to imagine a circle of light that's shining on some target.
因此，我们不是广泛地从左到右看一条线，而是鼓励他们想象一个照在某个目标上的光圈。
Now, of course, a finish line is a line, but if they're staying in their lane, if they're on a track, right?
当然，终点线就是一条线，但如果他们留在自己的车道上，如果他们在赛道上，对吗？
You can imagine that there is a circle shining just on where in their lane they'll cross that finish line, or if it's a stop sign, you could imagine a circle of light illuminating that.
你可以想象有一个圆圈在他们将要冲过终点线的车道上发光，或者如果这是一个停车标志，你可以想象有一个圆圈照亮了它。
So that's what we're teaching people to use, and that's what seems to be effective to maintain that focus rather than sort of being pulled to engage with peripheral vision.
这就是我们教人们使用的方法，这似乎可以有效地保持注意力，而不是被拉到周边视觉上。
And there's some amazing people, some runners in history, like Joan Benoit Samuelson.
历史上有一些了不起的人，一些跑步者，比如琼·伯努瓦·萨缪尔森。
She's one of the first female marathon competitors who has won multiple marathons.
她是第一位赢得多项马拉松比赛冠军的女性马拉松选手之一。
She's Canadian.
她是加拿大人。
I think she's won, feel free to correct me, 10 marathons in her life.
我认为她赢了，请随意纠正我，她一生中赢得了 10 场马拉松。
And she talks about sort of not assuming this wide but narrow, wide but not deep or tall, attentional focus.
她谈到了不假设这种宽但窄、宽但不深或高的注意力焦点。
She talks about finding the shorts on somebody ahead of me and focusing on those shorts until she passes them and then resetting that goal.
她谈到在我前面的人身上找到短裤，然后专注于这些短裤，直到她超越他们，然后重新设定目标。
So, in her interviews that she's done with Runner's Magazine, she talks about it in terms of this circle of attention.
因此，在她接受《跑步者杂志》采访时，她谈到了这个关注圈。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
I think I've experienced this a little bit, because we're visiting New York now to do this interview, and runners here seem more competitive.
我想我已经经历过一点，因为我们现在正在纽约做这次采访，这里的跑步者似乎更有竞争力。
The recreational runners here seem more competitive.
这里的休闲跑步者似乎更具竞争力。
People walking on the street seem competitive.
走在街上的人们看起来都很有竞争力。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're walking at near pace to somebody, they'll quickly speed up.
你以接近的速度向某人走去，他们会很快加快速度。
If you speed up, they'll speed up.
如果你加速，他们也会加速。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think there have been some studies about walking speed in different cities, and New York ranks among the fastest walkers around.
我认为已经有一些关于不同城市步行速度的研究，纽约是步行速度最快的城市之一。
I won't mention the slowest walking cities- ...
我不会提及步行最慢的城市 - ...
because we don't want to cast any judgments, but fascinating.
因为我们不想做出任何判断，但很有趣。
And again, makes total sense based on the way the visual system measures both space and time.
再说一次，根据视觉系统测量空间和时间的方式，这是完全有意义的。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Something maybe we'll get into a little bit later.
也许我们稍后会讨论一些事情。
But I'm curious whether or not the whole thing works in reverse as well.
但我很好奇整个事情是否也能反过来进行。
Meaning, do people who are very motivated to exercise, do they think this way naturally?
意思是说，那些非常有动力去锻炼的人，他们自然会这样想吗？
People who are averse to exercise or who find it hard to get motivated to exercise, do they view the world differently, literally?
那些不愿意运动或者很难有动力去运动的人，他们对世界的看法真的不同吗？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I have so much that I can say about this.
对此我有很多话可以说。
So, if you'll humor me, I'll give you a couple different stories about-
所以，如果你愿意幽默一下，我会给你讲几个不同的故事——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Please
请
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
...
...
how we can answer that.
我们该如何回答这个问题。
So you don't have to do a deep dive into vision science, which, of course, you are capable of doing, but what I can share with you is some animal studies where this work kind of first started.
所以你不必深入研究视觉科学，当然，你有能力做到这一点，但我可以与你分享的是这项工作最初开始的一些动物研究。
This is in the 1940s, 1950s, rat labs, mice labs, and those were the first models of human behavior that people were trying to understand motivation science within.
这是在 20 世纪 40 年代、20 世纪 50 年代，大鼠实验室、小鼠实验室是人们试图理解动机科学的第一个人类行为模型。
So they would deprive these poor rats and mice of food or water so that they were motivated to get it.
因此，他们会剥夺这些可怜的老鼠的食物或水，以便它们有动力去获取它们。
They were hungry, and they were thirsty, and they had practice running a maze, so they knew where they could find that food or water, whatever that they were looking for.
他们又饿又渴，而且他们练习过走迷宫，所以他们知道在哪里可以找到食物或水，无论他们想要什么。
And what these researchers were studying was the pace of movement through the maze.
这些研究人员正在研究的是穿过迷宫的运动速度。
So as the rats were going through the maze, they found that even though these rats were hungry and they're having to expend limited caloric energy to make it to the finish line, they actually ran faster the closer they got to that finish line.
因此，当老鼠穿过迷宫时，他们发现，尽管这些老鼠很饿，而且它们必须消耗有限的热量才能到达终点线，但实际上，它们越接近终点线，它们跑得就越快。
So once that finish line became nearer to them, they actually used their resources probably sub-optimally to make sure that they crossed the finish line and got their reward.
因此，一旦终点线接近他们，他们实际上可能会次优地使用资源来确保他们冲过终点线并获得奖励。
So that was some of the first early work that was showing that proximity to a goal increases the investment in resources that people, that animals use to meet that goal, even when they don't have that much to spare.
因此，这是第一个早期工作，表明接近目标会增加人类和动物用于实现该目标的资源投资，即使它们没有那么多闲置资源。
And with the mice, the same kind of thing.
对于老鼠来说，也是同样的情况。
They actually had these little harnesses on them.
他们实际上戴着这些小安全带。
They were looking at how hard do the mice pull to try to make it to the food or the water that they were trying to get.
他们正在观察老鼠需要多大的力气才能到达它们想要获取的食物或水。
And same deal, the closer they got to getting their reward, the harder they were pulling, even though they didn't have that much energy to spare, and they had already used some up getting to that finish line.
同样的道理，他们越接近获得奖励，他们就越努力地拉，尽管他们没有那么多的精力，而且他们已经用完了一些能量来到达终点线。
So that early animal research from the 1940s, 1950s then spurred a whole wave of work in humans.
因此，20 世纪 40 年代、20 世纪 50 年代的早期动物研究激发了人类研究的浪潮。
Do humans do the same thing?
人类也会做同样的事情吗？
Even when they're tired, but they can see, or they can feel that their goal is close, do they double down and work even harder to cross that finish line?
即使他们很累，但他们可以看到，或者他们可以感觉到自己的目标已经接近，他们是否会加倍努力，更加努力地冲过终点线？
Either a literal finish line if we're talking about exercise, or a metaphorical finish line if we're talking about any other kind of goal that people might have.
如果我们谈论锻炼，则可以是字面上的终点线；如果我们谈论人们可能拥有的任何其他目标，则可以是隐喻的终点线。
And the answer is yes.
答案是肯定的。
They called that the goal gradient hypothesis.
他们称之为目标梯度假设。
The closer you get to the goal, generally the harder people and animals work to finish that goal.
距离目标越近，人们和动物通常就越努力完成该目标。
That's what led us then to think, okay, those rats, those mice, those people are seeing a finish line, right?
这就是让我们思考的原因，好吧，那些老鼠，那些老鼠，那些人正在看到终点线，对吗？
And it's when they're maybe seeing that finish line, seeing that reward, seeing the goal they're hoping to accomplish, that is what's leading them to try harder, to invest more so that they can finish it off.
当他们看到终点线、看到奖励、看到他们希望实现的目标时，就会促使他们更加努力、投入更多，以便完成任务。
What if we induce that illusion of proximity?
如果我们诱发这种接近的错觉怎么办？
What if we can induce a visual illusion, a visual experience that approximates what the real rats and mice were actually experiencing as they got closer?
如果我们能够诱发一种视觉错觉，一种接近真实大鼠和小鼠在靠近时实际经历的视觉体验，会怎么样？
So that is what is happening.
这就是正在发生的事情。
That's what's happening visually when we create that narrowed focus of attention.
这就是当我们缩小注意力焦点时视觉上发生的情况。
When we tell people, "Imagine there's a spotlight on the shorts of the person up ahead, or the stop sign that you're seeing," it induces an illusion of proximity that then is responsible for people trying harder, walking faster, feeling that it defied their expectations, and that it wasn't as bad as they thought it would be.
当我们告诉人们，“想象一下前面有人的短裤上有聚光灯，或者你看到的停车标志”时，它会产生一种接近的错觉，这种错觉会让人们更加努力，走得更快，感觉这违背了他们的期望，而且事情并没有他们想象的那么糟糕。
So we do things like measure their visual experience.
所以我们会做一些事情，比如测量他们的视觉体验。
How far away is that finish line?
距离终点线还有多远？
Of course, we can ask them to report in feet.
当然，我们可以要求他们以英尺为单位进行报告。
How many feet is it?
它有多少英尺？
But that's challenging, right?
但这很有挑战性，对吧？
Nobody really knows what three feet versus four feet really looks like, but they do, so we can ask them how many feet it is.
没有人真正知道三英尺和四英尺到底是什么样子，但他们知道，所以我们可以问他们有多少英尺。
We also use these other measures of visual matching measures to know that distance to the finish line looks about as far away as this other target.
我们还使用这些视觉匹配测量的其他测量来了解到终点线的距离看起来与另一个目标一样远。
They're matching up their visual experiences.
他们正在匹配他们的视觉体验。
So what we know is that inducing that narrowed focus of attention is creating an illusion of proximity.
所以我们知道，诱导注意力集中会产生一种接近的错觉。
That goal looks closer to them, and then there's all kinds of downstream motivational, psychological effects that happen from feeling like you're closer.
这个目标看起来离他们更近，然后就会因为感觉你更接近而产生各种下游的动机、心理影响。
By visually misperceiving that space, it can have a really positive consequence.
通过视觉上误解这个空间，它可以产生真正积极的后果。
So your first question was, which way does it go?
所以你的第一个问题是，它会朝哪个方向发展？
Does it go both ways, that people who are better runners happen to do this thing?
跑得更好的人碰巧会做这件事，这是否是双向的？
Yes.
是的。
Some of our research shows that.
我们的一些研究表明。
That if they, for whatever reason, happened upon this strategy and continued to practice it, they tend to be the better runners.
无论出于何种原因，如果他们偶然发现了这一策略并继续练习，他们往往会成为更好的跑步者。
But we also know from our experiments in the lab, where we take people who don't know about these strategies, and by a flip of the coin, we randomly assign them to either learn the strategy and use it or do whatever comes naturally to them.
但我们也从实验室的实验中得知，我们让不了解这些策略的人，通过掷硬币的方式，随机分配他们要么学习策略并使用它，要么做他们自然而然的事情。
We can create that illusion of proximity that has a direct and causal impact on improving their performance when they're exercising.
我们可以创造一种接近的错觉，这对提高他们锻炼时的表现有直接和因果的影响。
So yes, it goes both ways, but you can also teach yourself that you don't have to just rely on luck of the draw for being a person who happens to be better at exercising or whose eyes happen to do this on their own.
所以，是的，这是双向的，但你也可以告诉自己，你不必仅仅依靠运气来成为一个恰好更擅长锻炼或者眼睛恰好能自己做到这一点的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The most pressing question I have in my mind is, can we, I, all of us use this strategy to make the starting line a goal point?
我心中最紧迫的问题是，我们，我，我们所有人都可以使用这个策略，使起跑线成为目标点吗？
Because for a lot of people, it's not about going from start to finish, it's about getting to start.
因为对于很多人来说，重要的不是从头到尾，而是开始。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I would say, here I'm estimating, but 15% of the content on social media is about motivation and how to get motivated to do things.
我想说的是，我在这里估计，但社交媒体上 15% 的内容是关于动机以及如何激发做事的动力。
Neurochemicals like dopamine, of course, being at the heart of motivation, in my mind, I'm making strong links between some of these visual aperture effects and goal lines and dopamine that we could also dive into.
当然，像多巴胺这样的神经化学物质是动机的核心，在我看来，我正在将其中一些视觉孔径效应与球门线和多巴胺之间建立牢固的联系，我们也可以深入研究。
But the simple question is, can I use this finish line strategy to make the start line a goal and get my system more engaged or motivated?
但简单的问题是，我可以使用这个终点线策略将起跑线作为目标，并使我的系统更加投入或积极主动吗？
And is there any physiology or physiological changes, I should say, to reflect the idea that maybe just visually focusing on the start line would actually get me more excited as opposed to make me less excited to engage in effort.
我应该说，是否存在任何生理学或生理变化来反映这样的想法：也许仅仅在视觉上关注起跑线实际上会让我更加兴奋，而不是让我对努力感到不那么兴奋。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
There's certainly vision science that's tied up in that very first stage of goal setting, identifying what that goal is in the first place, and taking those first steps.
当然，视觉科学与目标设定的第一阶段密切相关，首先确定目标是什么，然后采取第一步。
A lot of people's go-to strategies that involve vision are vision boards or dream boards or Post-It notes, right?
很多人涉及愿景的首选策略是愿景板、梦想板或便利贴，对吧？
They're creating some sort of visual representation of what it is that they want to accomplish.
他们正在创建某种视觉表示来表达他们想要完成的任务。
Where is it that I want to be in five years, 10 days, 10 years?
五年、十天、十年后我想在哪里？
Whatever that timeline is that they're working under.
无论他们工作的时间表是什么。
The idea of vision boards or dream boards is that you, almost like a scrapbook, collect visual icons that reflect where you want to be to motivate yourself.
愿景板或梦想板的想法是，你就像一本剪贴簿一样，收集反映你想要激励自己的目标的视觉图标。
It's a really common tactic that people use, and it's not bad to do that.
这是人们使用的一种非常常见的策略，而且这样做也不错。
For some people, just even knowing what they want in life is a major accomplishment.
对于某些人来说，仅仅知道自己在生活中想要什么就是一项重大成就。
Defining the goal can be really challenging for people, and that's a strategy that works and involves our visual experience.
定义目标对人们来说确实具有挑战性，而这是一种行之有效的策略，并且涉及我们的视觉体验。
People aren't saying, "Why don't you just sit around and imagine what you want your life to be like in 10 years?" The strategy that people are suggesting is like, "No. Cut out the pictures, put it on a board, and stick it by your bathroom mirror so you see it every day."
人们不会说：“你为什么不坐下来想象一下你希望 10 年后的生活是什么样子呢？”人们建议的策略是，“不。把照片剪下来，放在一块板上，然后把它贴在浴室镜子旁边，这样你每天都能看到它。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or make a list.
或者列一个清单。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Or make a list.
或者列一个清单。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
People are big on these lists.
这些名单上的人很多。
I have a lot of friends who are like-
我有很多朋友，他们都是这样的——
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
"Have you made your list?"
“你列好清单了吗？”
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The list of things that you insist on having in the context of fitness, relationship, job, et cetera.
在健身、人际关系、工作等方面你坚持拥有的事物清单。
This seems more and more common now.
现在这种情况似乎越来越普遍。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah, totally, and the idea is write it down.
是的，完全正确，我们的想法就是把它写下来。
They're telling you write it down or create a visual manifestation of it.
他们告诉你把它写下来或创造它的视觉表现。
And so yeah, that's effective for identifying what you want, but it may not actually be effective for helping you to meet the goal, to get the job done.
所以，是的，这对于确定你想要什么很有效，但实际上对于帮助你实现目标、完成工作可能并不有效。
So colleagues of mine at New York University have probed, well, why?
所以我在纽约大学的同事们探究了为什么？
Why is that?
这是为什么？
Why is just thinking about what you want in your life and sort of putting yourself vicariously into those shoes, imagining what my life will be like if I can accomplish everything on this list, why doesn't that work?
为什么只是思考你在生活中想要什么，并把自己置于那些境地，想象如果我能完成这个清单上的所有事情，我的生活会是什么样子，为什么这不起作用？
Well, first of all, does it work?
嗯，首先，它有效吗？
The answer is no. And why does it not work?
答案是否定的。为什么它不起作用？
Because what happens, these colleagues, Gabriele Oettingen and her research team, have found is that going through and dreaming about or visualizing how great my life will be when I get X, Y, and Z done, that is like a goal satisfied.
因为发生的情况是，这些同事，Gabriele Oettingen 和她的研究团队发现，经历并梦想或想象当我完成 X、Y 和 Z 时我的生活将会多么美好，这就像一个目标得到了满足。
I have identified what it is that I want.
我已经确定了我想要的是什么。
I have experienced it, even if just in an imaginary way.
我经历过它，即使只是以一种想象的方式。
I've had that positive experience of thinking about how great my life is going to be when I get this thing done, and they start to sort of rest on their laurels.
我有过这样的积极经历：当我完成这件事时，我的生活将会变得多么美好，而他们开始安于现状。
She's actually measured systolic blood pressure and heart rate, and they found that people who do that, who go through that experience of visualizing how great my life will be when I get X, Y, and Z done, their systolic blood pressure, the bottom number on your blood pressure reading, decreases.
她实际上测量了收缩压和心率，他们发现，那些这样做的人，那些经历过想象当我完成 X、Y 和 Z 时我的生活将会多么美好的经历的人，他们的收缩压（血压读数的底部数字）会降低。
Okay.
好的。
Now, I'm all about finding ways to relax, especially in New York.
现在，我正在寻找放松的方法，尤其是在纽约。
You're constantly living at a high level of stimulation, and so cool, great.
你总是生活在高度的刺激中，而且很酷，很棒。
So maybe I should just think about how awesome my life will be when I get my bucket list done.
所以也许我应该想想，当我完成我的愿望清单时，我的生活将会多么美好。
But motivation scientists know that systolic blood pressure is actually an indicator of our body's readiness to get up and act, to do something.
但动机科学家知道，收缩压实际上是我们身体准备好起床、行动、做某事的指标。
Now, that can be the going out for a walk, going out for a run, hitting the gym.
现在，这可以是出去散步、跑步、去健身房。
It can also be things like doing math problems.
也可以是做数学题之类的事情。
Even if it's something that's just mental, systolic blood pressure actually goes up in anticipation of your body or your mind needing to do something, taking the first steps on a goal.
即使这只是精神上的事情，收缩压实际上会因为预期你的身体或你的思想需要做某事、朝着目标迈出第一步而上升。
So then it helps us to understand, okay, if I've just created this dream board, this vision board, and put myself psychologically in that space of a goal satisfied, why is it bad that blood pressure goes down?
那么它可以帮助我们理解，好吧，如果我刚刚创建了这个梦想板，这个愿景板，并在心理上将自己置于目标满足的空间中，为什么血压下降是不好的？
Because it means your body is chilling out.
因为这意味着你的身体正在变冷。
It's like, all right, cool.
就像，好吧，很酷。
I just accomplished something pretty major.
我刚刚完成了一件相当重要的事情。
I actually now don't have the physiological resources at the ready to take the first step right now to do something about that.
事实上，我现在还没有准备好采取第一步来对此采取行动的生理资源。
So that was a pretty monumental finding for motivation scientists to understand that creating these dream boards, these vision boards, or to-do lists might actually backfire because in and of itself is the creation of a goal and the satisfaction of the goal, and then people understandably give themselves some time to just enjoy that positive experience.
因此，对于动机科学家来说，这是一个非常具有里程碑意义的发现，让他们明白创建这些梦想板、这些愿景板或待办事项列表实际上可能会适得其反，因为其本身就是目标的创建和目标的满足，然后人们可以理解地给自己一些时间来享受这种积极的体验。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So much for The Secret.
《秘密》就讲这么多。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I guess now The Secret folks will come after me with pitchforks.
我想现在“秘密”的人们会用干草叉来追捕我。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
I try to never say the name right?
我尽量不说名字，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, well, I'm not afraid to say the name.
哦，好吧，我不怕说出这个名字。
I imagine that certain strategies might work for other people, but everything you're saying, again, is consistent with what we know about the physiology of dopamine circuits for motivation.
我想某些策略可能对其他人有效，但你所说的一切都与我们对多巴胺回路的生理学了解一致。
I have a good friend who perhaps incidentally, perhaps not, is a cardiologist at a major university, said that one of the major errors that people make with book writing and completion is they will tell people they're going to write a book, and people will say, "Oh, you definitely should write a book.
我有一个好朋友，他也许是偶然的，也许不是，是一所主要大学的心脏病专家，他说人们在写书和完成书时犯的一个主要错误是他们会告诉人们他们要写一本书，而人们会说，“哦，你绝对应该写一本书。
Everyone's going to love your book," and they never end up writing it.
每个人都会喜欢你的书，”但他们永远不会写完它。
And his theory is that they get so much dopamine reward from that immediate feedback, with all the protection of never having the book criticized-
他的理论是，他们从即时反馈中获得了如此多的多巴胺奖励，并得到了永远不会批评这本书的所有保护——
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that they never write the book.
他们从来没有写过这本书。
I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but I guess it raises the question: what's the better strategy?
我确信也有例外，但我想这提出了一个问题：更好的策略是什么？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
So I'm not saying that people who enjoy dream board creation should stop what they're doing.
所以我并不是说喜欢创建梦想板的人应该停止他们正在做的事情。
That's not the take home message here.
这不是这里要传达的信息。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nightmare board making?
噩梦板制作？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Oh, definitely not that.
哦，绝对不是那样。
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
There's enough anxiety and fear in the world.
世界上有足够的焦虑和恐惧。
We don't need to encourage more of it.
我们不需要鼓励更多这样的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
But the process of goal setting shouldn't stop with articulating what the goal is.
但目标设定的过程不应止于阐明目标是什么。
So at that same point that we're trying to figure out what do we want to do, what is my vision for the future?
因此，在我们试图弄清楚我们想做什么的同时，我对未来的愿景是什么？
In those planning sessions, we need to simultaneously think about a couple other things.
在这些计划会议中，我们需要同时考虑其他一些事情。
One is, how are we going to get there?
一是，我们如何到达那里？
So take it out of the abstract, take it out of this idyllic visual iconography, and start thinking about the practical day-to-day.
因此，把它从抽象中拿出来，从田园诗般的视觉图像中拿出来，开始思考日常的实际情况。
We need to break it down into more manageable goals, not just my 10-year plan for myself, but my two-week plan.
我们需要将其分解为更易于管理的目标，不仅仅是我自己的十年计划，还有我的两周计划。
What can I accomplish in the next two weeks and the two weeks after that's going to set me on the right trajectory?
在接下来的两周内以及之后的两周内我可以完成什么事情才能让我走上正确的轨道？
That's probably not surprising to anybody who's been thinking about how do I set goals better.
对于那些一直在思考如何更好地设定目标的人来说，这可能并不奇怪。
Plan big picture, think big picture abstractly, but then also break it down more concretely.
规划大局，抽象地思考大局，然后更具体地分解它。
That's probably not surprising, but it's an important aspect of the goal-setting process.
这可能并不奇怪，但它是目标设定过程的一个重要方面。
Then again, Gabriele Oettingen in my department has identified a third, often overlooked or underappreciated stage that has to happen in the goal-setting process.
话又说回来，我部门的加布里埃尔·厄廷根（Gabriele Oettingen）已经确定了目标设定过程中必须发生的第三个经常被忽视或低估的阶段。
And that's thinking about the obstacles that stand in your way of success.
这就是思考阻碍你成功的障碍。
And that will actually help improve motivation in the long run.
从长远来看，这实际上有助于提高动力。
And sometimes people think that that is counterintuitive.
有时人们认为这是违反直觉的。
You're saying, if I want to increase my motivation, have more motivation, then I need to think about how hard it's going to be, all the ways that I'm going to fail.
你是说，如果我想增加我的动力，有更多的动力，那么我需要考虑它会有多困难，以及我会失败的所有方式。
How is that going to jazz me up?
这会让我兴奋起来吗？
How is that going to help me get through when things get hard?
当事情变得困难时，这将如何帮助我度过难关？
But it does because it's like coming up with a plan B, a plan C, plan D in advance of actually experiencing that.
但它确实如此，因为这就像在实际体验之前制定了 B 计划、C 计划、D 计划。
If you were on a boat and the boat started to sink, that's not the time you want to start looking for life jackets.
如果您在船上并且船开始下沉，那么这不是您想要开始寻找救生衣的时候。
You already want to know where one is so you can go to it right away.
您已经想知道其中一个在哪里，以便可以立即前往。
And it's the same thing with goal setting, is that you want to know: What am I working towards?
目标设定也是一样，你想知道：我正在努力做什么？
How am I going to get there?
我要怎么去那里？
And if I experience this obstacle, here's what I'm going to do about it.
如果我遇到这个障碍，我将采取以下措施。
You may never experience that obstacle, but if you do, you're probably going to be shy on time, thin on resources, maybe experiencing an anxiety that hijacks your brain so you're not functioning at that optimal level of judgment and decision-making.
你可能永远不会遇到这种障碍，但如果你遇到了，你可能会在时间上感到害羞，资源匮乏，也许会经历一种劫持你的大脑的焦虑，这样你就无法在最佳的判断和决策水平上发挥作用。
You want to already have the snap next step in place so you can just hop to it, right?
您希望下一步已经就位，这样您就可以跳到它，对吗？
We're not going to do our best thinking when we're in crisis mode.
当我们处于危机模式时，我们不会做出最好的思考。
But we don't have to if we have already used our resources in advance to come up with that plan B or that plan C.
但如果我们已经提前使用我们的资源来制定 B 计划或 C 计划，那么我们就不必这样做。
Michael Phelps, incredible athlete, right?
迈克尔·菲尔普斯，不可思议的运动员，对吧？
This is something that he and his coach have routinely incorporated into their training.
这是他和他的教练经常将其纳入训练中的内容。
So I love this story that back in 2008, he was hot for the first time on the international stage.
所以我很喜欢这个故事，2008 年，他第一次在国际舞台上大受欢迎。
It was the Beijing Olympics.
那是北京奥运会。
Michael Phelps was on the brink of doing something that no one else in the history of the Olympic Games has ever done, which is win eight gold medals in a single Olympiad.
迈克尔·菲尔普斯即将完成奥运会历史上其他人从未做过的事情，即在单届奥运会上赢得八枚金牌。
At the time of this story, he had already won seven, and he had just the 200 fly in front of him before he could do what no one else has ever done, win the eighth gold medal.
在写这篇故事时，他已经赢得了七枚金牌，而在他能够完成别人从未做过的事情之前，他只差 200 飞了，赢得第八枚金牌。
And the fly is his thing.
苍蝇是他的事。
This should've been easy, like a no-brainer.
这应该很容易，不需要动脑子。
He's going to win this.
他会赢得这场胜利。
He's going to break Olympic history.
他将打破奥林匹克历史。
As soon as he dove into the pool, his goggles started to leak, and by the time he had done three lengths of the pool, he just had to flip around and come back to the starting line/finish line, back to the edge.
当他一潜入泳池时，他的护目镜就开始漏水，当他跑完泳池的三个长度时，他只得翻个身，回到起跑线/终点线，回到边缘。
By the time that happened, his goggles were completely filled with water, and he was swimming blind.
当这一切发生时，他的泳镜已经完全充满了水，他已经失明了。
I would've panicked.
我会惊慌失措的。
I would've sunk to the bottom of the pool.
我会沉入池底的。
I wouldn't have even been in the pool, to be honest.
老实说，我什至不会去游泳池。
I'm not a swimmer, definitely not going to be in the Olympics.
我不是游泳运动员，肯定不会参加奥运会。
But for him, he didn't.
但对于他来说，他没有。
It wasn't a moment of panic like it probably would've been for nearly every other person in that situation because he had foreshadowed that kind of possible failure.
这并不是一个恐慌的时刻，就像几乎所有其他人在这种情况下可能会经历的那样，因为他已经预示了这种可能的失败。
He had imagined that obstacle hitting him in advance, and not even just imagined it, but practiced it.
他事先就想象到了那个障碍会击中他，而且不仅仅是想象，而是实践了。
What will we do?
我们会做什么？
He routinely practiced swimming with his goggles not fully secured on his face.
他经常在游泳时戴着没有完全固定在脸上的泳镜。
His coach notoriously would rip the goggles off of his head, smash them on the ground for maybe dramatic effect or something so that he didn't even have any goggles possible to grab as he's in practice.
众所周知，他的教练会把他头上的护目镜扯下来，把它们摔在地上，以达到戏剧性的效果或其他什么，这样他在训练时甚至没有任何护目镜可以抓住。
So because he had foreshadowed that possibility and the solution, if my goggles start to leak, then I will do, in his case, start counting my strokes, then I'll make it through.
因为他已经预示了这种可能性和解决方案，如果我的护目镜开始漏水，那么对于他来说，我会开始计算我的划数，然后我就会成功。
He knew exactly how many strokes it would take for him to get from one end of the pool to the other.
他清楚地知道自己需要划多少次才能从泳池的一端到达另一端。
He started counting his strokes.
他开始数自己的划数。
He won that race, the 200 fly.
他赢得了那场 200 米飞翔比赛。
He won his eighth gold medal, and he'd go on to win 15 more in his career.
他赢得了第八枚金牌，并且在他的职业生涯中又赢得了 15 枚金牌。
So we might not all be swimmers.
所以我们可能并不都是游泳运动员。
We might not all aspire to Olympic-level performance.
我们可能并不都渴望达到奥运会水平的表现。
But I love that example because I think it helps sort of demystify or give us an alternative perspective on the importance, and the motivational reasons why thinking about obstacles in advance, thinking about the two, three, four ways that your plan might go awry is actually effective at helping us to overcome the obstacle that might otherwise lead us to throw in the towel.
但我喜欢这个例子，因为我认为它有助于揭开神秘面纱，或者给我们提供一个替代的视角来看待重要性，以及为什么提前考虑障碍的动机原因，考虑你的计划可能出错的两种、三种、四种方式，实际上可以有效地帮助我们克服障碍，否则这些障碍可能会导致我们认输。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's a beautiful example.
这是一个很好的例子。
I'm going to springboard off that example to ask a question that has also been on my mind, which is: Is there really anything special about vision?
我将从这个例子出发，提出一个我一直在思考的问题，即：视觉真的有什么特别之处吗？
Because in the example you just gave, it was indeed vision that Michael Phelps was deprived of, and it was counting strokes.
因为在你刚才举的例子中，迈克尔·菲尔普斯被剥夺的确实是视力，而且是数杆数。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Counting is another form of incremental measurement in the nervous system, obviously.
显然，计数是神经系统增量测量的另一种形式。
There are others.
还有其他的。
It could be the sensation of the hands smacking the water or breaking the surface of the water.
这可能是手拍打水面或打破水面的感觉。
So there are any number of different variables or metrics that one could use.
因此，可以使用许多不同的变量或指标。
I could imagine that setting out on, let's say a three-mile run, which for me is a decent distance run.
我可以想象出发，比方说，跑三英里，这对我来说是一个不错的距离。
It's one I do a few times a week.
这是我每周做几次的事情。
I'm also not a runner, but I try and complete some runs a few times a week at a very slow pace just for my health.
我也不是跑步者，但为了我的健康，我尝试每周以非常慢的速度完成几次跑步。
I could count every step.
我可以数出每一步。
That would be kind of exhausting.
那会有点累。
But if I knew that three miles was, I'm going to estimate here, I don't know, a couple thousand steps, I could count backward, I could count forward, I count every 10.
但如果我知道三英里是，我会在这里估计，我不知道，几千步，我可以倒数，我可以向前数，我每10数一次。
I confess, I spend every morning trying to find sunlight to get sun in my eyes to set my circadian rhythm, and I do 100 jumping jacks.
我承认，我每天早上都在努力寻找阳光，让阳光进入我的眼睛，以设定我的昼夜节律，我会做 100 次开合跳。
So I'm the guy that people are looking at strange on the street.
所以我就是那个在街上被人们视为奇怪的人。
But sometimes I count every 10, sometimes I count backward, sometimes I count forward.
但有时我每10数一次，有时倒数，有时向前数。
Is there any indication that it matters, or is it simply that we attach some sort of meaning to that increment and the mode of reaching that increment?
是否有任何迹象表明它很重要，或者仅仅是我们为该增量以及达到该增量的模式赋予了某种含义？
Because it does seem like there's something special about vision.
因为视觉似乎确实有一些特别之处。
We could maybe dive into a little bit more of why that is.
我们也许可以更深入地了解其中的原因。
But at a very basic level, how broadly or finely should one set the increments, and does it matter if you're counting steps or counting strokes?
但在非常基本的层面上，应该将增量设置得有多宽或多细？如果您计算步数或计算笔画，这很重要吗？
Maybe it's every other song you're going to listen to an entire album
也许这是您要听整张专辑中的所有其他歌曲
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's something that I don't know if people do anymore.
我不知道人们是否还会这样做。
Or you're going to listen to a whole playlist and then listen to it again, and you're going to run as long as the playlist is completed twice.
或者你要听整个播放列表，然后再听一遍，只要播放列表完成两次你就会运行。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You can obviously see what I'm getting at.
你显然可以明白我的意思。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I know people are going to want to implement these tools, and I have to guess that the nervous system is somewhat indiscriminate when it comes to these things, but that there might also be some specificity.
但我知道人们会想要实施这些工具，而且我不得不猜测，神经系统在处理这些事情时有些不加区别，但也可能存在一些特殊性。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
I think vision is special, and I think you do, too, and for a variety of reasons.
我认为视力很特别，我想你也这么认为，原因有很多。
When you start, you can really nerd out on how cool the brain is and how cool vision is within the brain.
当你开始时，你真的可以发现大脑有多酷以及大脑内的视觉有多酷。
And when you do, then you start to find some things that make vision unique.
当你这样做时，你就会开始发现一些使视觉变得独特的东西。
Right?
正确的？
More real estate, more neurological cortex real estate is taken up by the visual sense than any other sense, more than taste, touch, smell.
视觉所占据的神经皮层空间比任何其他感官都要多，比味觉、触觉、嗅觉还要多。
Right?
正确的？
Vision gets more real estate, gets more neurological processing space than any other sense.
视觉比任何其他感官拥有更多的空间、更多的神经处理空间。
Why is that?
这是为什么？
Well, because evolution has led us to prioritize the visual experience.
嗯，因为进化使我们优先考虑视觉体验。
There are some cool illusions where maybe somebody's mouth is doing something different than what you're hearing, when people sort of create these weird tricks that might go on YouTube and go viral.
有一些很酷的错觉，也许有人的嘴在做一些与你听到的不同的事情，当人们创造出这些奇怪的技巧时，这些技巧可能会在 YouTube 上传播并病毒式传播。
And people are trying to figure out, what did I hear?
人们试图弄清楚，我听到了什么？
What did I see his mouth doing?
我看到他的嘴在做什么？
And what comes up is that people prioritize what they see over what they're hearing when the two are incompatible or kind of out of sync.
结果是，当两者不兼容或不同步时，人们会优先考虑他们所看到的而不是他们所听到的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Every time.
每次。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Every time.
每次。
Right?
正确的？
If you had to bet on it, bet on what it is that you're looking at rather than what you're seeing.
如果你必须打赌，那就赌你正在看的东西，而不是你正在看到的东西。
And why is that?
这是为什么呢？
Well, I guess a couple other things, too, right?
嗯，我想还有其他一些事情，对吧？
We can see super far.
我们可以看得超级远。
You can see a flickering candle on a horizon if it was a totally clear sky several miles away.
如果几英里外是完全晴朗的天空，您可以看到地平线上闪烁的蜡烛。
You can see the International Space Station floating up in the night sky, right?
你可以看到国际空间站漂浮在夜空中，对吗？
Hundreds of miles away.
数百里之外。
Our eyes are amazing, and we prioritize what we see.
我们的眼睛很神奇，我们会优先考虑我们看到的东西。
And I think that's because we rarely get the experience of having our visual experience second-guessed.
我认为这是因为我们很少有过对我们的视觉体验进行事后批评的经历。
Oftentimes, we're having a conversation, maybe in a loud restaurant, and we know that we didn't hear the person right, and so we say, like, "Oh, did you say that?" Or, "Oh, I thought you said this." And they're like, "No, I didn't say that." Right?
通常情况下，我们正在交谈，也许是在一家吵闹的餐厅里，我们知道我们没有听清楚那个人的意思，所以我们会说，“哦，你是这么说的吗？”或者，“哦，我以为你这么说的。”他们会说：“不，我没那么说。”正确的？
So people will correct us when our ears get it wrong.
所以当我们的耳朵听错时，人们会纠正我们。
Or we're tasting something amazing, and we can't quite figure out what spices were in here, and so we know that our tongue isn't quite picking up the taste the right way, and that's why we read the menu to see what are the ingredients, or we ask the chef, "What did you put in this?
或者我们正在品尝一些令人惊奇的东西，但我们不太清楚里面有什么香料，所以我们知道我们的舌头没有以正确的方式感受到味道，这就是为什么我们阅读菜单来看看成分是什么，或者我们问厨师，“你在里面放了什么？
It tastes amazing." So we know that our tongue is getting it wrong.
味道棒极了。”所以我们知道我们的舌头出错了。
Or you might be touching something, and you look at the tag to see what sort of textile was used in this really amazing piece of clothing that you're looking to buy.
或者，您可能正在触摸某些东西，然后查看标签，看看您想要购买的这件令人惊叹的衣服使用了哪种纺织品。
So we know that our sense of touch isn't quite getting it right.
所以我们知道我们的触觉不太正常。
But rarely do we have that experience of having our eyes get updated, where we're looking at something.
但我们很少有过这样的经历：让我们的眼睛更新，我们正在看某样东西。
Oh, I think I'm looking at my mom.
哦，我想我正在看着我的妈妈。
Oh, no, it was actually my husband.
哦，不，实际上是我丈夫。
Okay, that never happens, right?
好吧，那永远不会发生，对吧？
That we have gotten vision as wrong as we might get any other thing that we're experiencing through any other sense.
我们对视觉的认识是错误的，就像我们通过任何其他感官体验到的任何其他事物一样。
We trust our visual experience.
我们相信我们的视觉体验。
We have sort of a naive realism that what we see reflects the world the way it actually is because it's never really fully tested.
我们有一种天真的现实主义，认为我们所看到的反映了世界的实际情况，因为它从未经过真正的充分测试。
We never get the input or the feedback that you've seen something wrong until a visual illusion pops up on social media, right?
在社交媒体上出现视觉错觉之前，我们永远不会收到您看到问题的输入或反馈，对吧？
Like the dress example, or the last week or so, there's been that horse-seal line drawing that's been all over social media, too.
就像裙子的例子一样，或者上周左右，社交媒体上也出现了马海豹的线条画。
What do you see?
你看到了什么？
I see a horse.
我看到一匹马。
Someone says, "I see a seal." And then chaos erupts.
有人说：“我看到一只海豹。”然后混乱爆发。
Or, "I thought the dress was blue." And, "Oh, I thought it was gold." I don't remember the options because I see it as blue, so right?
或者，“我以为这件衣服是蓝色的。”而且，“哦，我以为那是金子。”我不记得选项了，因为我看到它是蓝色的，对吗？
And it's dividing up families and friendships because you've seen something that the other person just literally cannot see.
它会分裂家庭和友谊，因为你看到了别人根本看不到的东西。
And that's why we love those examples when they pop up in social media when they do is because it defies all of our previous expectations.
这就是为什么我们喜欢那些出现在社交媒体上的例子，因为它违背了我们之前的所有期望。
If this interests you, there's a really amazing visual artist, Anish Kapoor, who plays with these ideas, too, and his installations are just fascinating.
如果你对此感兴趣，有一位非常出色的视觉艺术家安尼什·卡普尔（Anish Kapoor）也运用了这些想法，他的装置非常迷人。
I saw one at a museum once where I walked down this long hall, and it's just a big black rectangle that's painted on the wall.
有一次我在博物馆里看到一个，当我走过这个长长的大厅时，它只是一个画在墙上的黑色大矩形。
And I was like, "This guy's super famous.
我当时想，“这家伙超级有名。
What the hell?
到底是什么？
It's just a big black rectangle painted on the wall.
它只是在墙上画了一个黑色的大矩形。
What is this about?
这是关于什么的？
What a hoax.
真是个骗局。
This museum paid how much?
这个博物馆花了多少钱？
Whatever." But then, as you get closer and your eyes start to settle in, and they adapt to the different visual lighting, you realize it's not a black square painted on the wall.
不管怎样。”但是，当你靠近，你的眼睛开始适应，并且它们适应不同的视觉照明时，你意识到这不是墙上画的黑色方块。
It's a huge hole he's carved into the wall, and there is a whole other world that's back behind there that you can't see right away until your eyes adapt to the different lighting conditions.
这是他在墙上刻的一个大洞，后面有一个完全不同的世界，除非你的眼睛适应了不同的照明条件，否则你无法立即看到它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Beautiful.
美丽。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
It's amazing.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As a vision scientist, I have to see.
作为一名视觉科学家，我必须看到。
Where is this exhibit?
这个展览在哪里？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
It's not up right now.
现在还没有起来。
There was a retrospective several years ago that was done in Sydney.
几年前在悉尼举办了一次回顾展。
But his work is all over the place.
但他的作品却到处都是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
So Anish Kapoor, definitely worth looking up because like the dress example or the horse-seal line drawing or artists like Anish Kapoor's work, that is a moment that gives us a different, unexpected insight about the world.
因此，安尼什·卡普尔（Anish Kapoor）绝对值得一看，因为就像服装示例或马海豹线条画或像安尼什·卡普尔（Anish Kapoor）这样的艺术家的作品一样，那一刻给了我们对世界不同的、意想不到的洞察。
That it challenges us to see something that we hadn't seen before, or it induces or tricks us into seeing something that we wouldn't have otherwise have seen.
它挑战我们看到我们以前从未见过的东西，或者它诱导或欺骗我们看到我们本来不会看到的东西。
And so it's those rare moments that I think are actually really important for understanding what do our eyes normally do because we wouldn't find these examples so surprising, so engaging, so shocking if we had routinely gotten the experience of realizing we're not seeing the world the way that it is.
因此，我认为这些罕见的时刻对于理解我们的眼睛通常做什么实际上非常重要，因为如果我们经常获得意识到我们看世界的方式并非如此的经验，我们就不会发现这些例子如此令人惊讶、如此引人入胜、如此令人震惊。
So that is why I think vision is special and why it can be thought of as a tool that we can add to our toolkit for how to better accomplish our goals.
这就是为什么我认为愿景很特别，也为什么它可以被视为一种工具，我们可以将其添加到我们的工具包中，以更好地实现我们的目标。
I'm not saying that we should just only focus on imagining the world through an attentional spotlight, but maybe that's something that we can employ strategically on occasion when we think it's going to best help us, when we need an extra little push to cross the literal or metaphorical finish line.
我并不是说我们应该只专注于通过关注聚光灯来想象世界，但也许当我们认为这对我们有最大帮助时，当我们需要额外的一点推动力来跨越字面或隐喻的终点线时，我们可以策略性地使用它。
But it doesn't have to be the only tactic that we use.
但这不一定是我们使用的唯一策略。
Just like it's not bad to use vision boards, but let's use something else also.
就像使用视觉板也不错一样，但我们也可以使用其他东西。
It's not bad to talk to ourselves in encouraging ways, but let's try adding another tool to our tool belt in case that's not enough to get the job done So I do think that there's great power in thinking about our visual experience alongside other tactics that we might use for meeting our goals.
以鼓励的方式自言自语并不是坏事，但让我们尝试在我们的工具带中添加另一个工具，以防万一这还不足以完成工作。所以我确实认为，考虑我们的视觉体验以及我们可能用来实现目标的其他策略有很大的力量。
And another one of those tactics might be the numerics that you're talking about.
另一种策略可能是您正在谈论的数字。
Do I think about my jumping jacks in terms of groups of 10 or as a set of 100?
我是否以 10 人一组或 100 人为一组来考虑我的开合跳？
You do it routinely, so you might be able to set a goal of 100 and have that sustain you through number 60, number 70, when maybe it's starting to get harder.
你经常这样做，所以你可以设定一个 100 的目标，并让你坚持到第 60、70，当它可能开始变得更难时。
But for somebody who's just starting out and wants to be able to make it to 100, that's probably not going to work.
但对于刚刚起步并希望能够达到 100 的人来说，这可能行不通。
That could be quite challenging for them if it's the first time that they're trying it.
如果这是他们第一次尝试，这对他们来说可能相当具有挑战性。
And so instead, setting those micro goals of groups of 10 is going to be useful because as we start to get to number eight or nine, or number 88 or 89, and it's really getting hard, we need that extra little hedonic hit of pleasure, of accomplishment, the micro dopamine rush that you might get by hitting another 10, another decade milestone, another group of 10 milestone.
因此，设定 10 人一组的微观目标将会很有用，因为当我们开始达到第 8 或第 9 个，或第 88 或 89 个目标时，这真的变得越来越困难，我们需要额外的一点快乐、成就感、微多巴胺的冲击，你可能会通过达到另一个 10 个、另一个十年里程碑、另一个 10 个里程碑来获得微多巴胺的冲击。
And once we get that little hit of pleasure, excitement, or self-congratulations, that might be enough to sustain us through the next challenging physical obstacle, the next group of 10 that we might experience.
一旦我们得到一点点快乐、兴奋或自我祝贺，这可能足以支撑我们度过下一个具有挑战性的身体障碍，即我们可能遇到的下一组 10 人。
So there isn't any prescription that I would give and say, "Every person should decide that 25 jumping jacks is the goal." No, we have to be idiosyncratic and introspect about where are we at with this goal, this thing that I'm trying to accomplish, and set those goals realistically but inspirationally as well.
因此，我不会给出任何处方：“每个人都应该决定以 25 次开合跳为目标。”不，我们必须保持特立独行，反思我们在实现这个目标、我正在努力实现的目标方面所处的位置，并以现实但鼓舞人心的方式设定这些目标。
We want to set a goal that will challenge us but isn't impossible.
我们希望设定一个对我们具有挑战性但并非不可能的目标。
We don't want to set goals that are too easy because we're not going to trick ourselves into feeling so great about doing one jumping jack.
我们不想设定太容易的目标，因为我们不会欺骗自己，让自己对做一个开合跳感觉非常好。
Okay, great.
好的，太好了。
I'm pretty sure most people, if that's a goal, they can do one.
我很确定大多数人，如果这是一个目标，他们就能做到。
So are you going to feel so great when you hit that goal?
那么，当你实现这个目标时，你会感觉很棒吗？
No, because it was too easy.
不，因为这太容易了。
You didn't have any doubt that you could do that one.
你毫不怀疑你能做到这一点。
But what about 25?
但25岁呢？
Okay.
好的。
Yeah.
是的。
I might feel pretty good about that.
我可能对此感觉很好。
Well, what about the next group of 25, and now I'm at 50?
那么，下一组 25 人怎么样，现在我已经 50 岁了？
Those are goals that might seem just beyond the brink of what's possible, but I will feel good when I hit that, and that's going to give me the next sort of boost of energy that I'm going to need to go a little bit further, either that time or the next time.
这些目标似乎超出了可能的范围，但当我实现这个目标时，我会感觉很好，这将给我下一种能量提升，我需要走得更远，无论是这次还是下一次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I think vision is special.
是的，我认为视力很特别。
Again, I'm strongly biased here.
再说一次，我在这里有强烈的偏见。
The reason I initially learned about your work was, well, now you have this amazing book, but at the time, there wasn't the book.
我最初了解你的作品的原因是，现在你有了这本很棒的书，但当时还没有这本书。
There were just the scientific papers and of course, upon which the book rests.
当然，只有科学论文，这也是本书的基础。
And those papers are really important.
这些论文非常重要。
But was the relationship between vision and obviously is our sense of space, but how the sense of space and time are related.
但是视觉和空间感之间的关系显然是我们的空间感，但是空间感和时间感是如何相关的。
And to make the idea quite simple for those listening, when you narrow your visual window, you're measuring the time bin also gets smaller.
为了让这个想法对于那些倾听的人来说非常简单，当你缩小你的视觉窗口时，你测量的时间段也会变小。
Right?
正确的？
Which makes sense when you hear it.
当你听到它时，这是有道理的。
Whereas if you take on a huge visual landscape, you're actually carving up time differently.
然而，如果你面对一个巨大的视觉景观，你实际上会以不同的方式分配时间。
It's sort of like moving from a slow frame rate to a fine frame rate.
这有点像从慢帧速率转变为精细帧速率。
Slow motion camera is actually taking a lot more snapshots, right?
慢动作相机实际上拍摄了更多快照，对吗？
So you're measuring distance over time more finely.
所以你可以更精确地测量一段时间内的距离。
And so where a strobe would be the other example, which a strobe is very low frequency.
另一个例子是频闪，它的频率非常低。
So you're going here, here, here as opposed to slow motion, right?
所以你要走到这里、这里、这里，而不是慢动作，对吗？
Strobe gives a coarse view into the time domain, and high-speed photography gives a fine view in the time domain.
频闪提供了时域的粗略视图，而高速摄影则提供了时域的精细视图。
So I'm almost certain, without any knowledge of underlying data, but knowledge of the mechanism, that I'm almost certain, if not certain, that by placing a narrow visual aperture, we change the way we perceive time.
因此，我几乎可以肯定，在没有任何基础数据知识的情况下，但在了解机制的情况下，我几乎可以肯定（如果不确定）通过放置狭窄的视觉光圈，我们可以改变我们感知时间的方式。
Now, I have a question, and to be honest, I know the answer in advance, but I'd love for you to tell us a bit about how some of this works still further in reverse, meaning how unfit people view the world versus how fit people view the world, or how unmotivated people visually see the world as opposed to highly motivated people.
现在，我有一个问题，说实话，我事先就知道答案，但我希望你能告诉我们其中一些如何进一步反向发挥作用，这意味着不健康的人如何看待世界与健康的人如何看待世界，或者没有动力的人与积极性高的人如何视觉地看待世界。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You talked about these elite runners.
你谈到了这些精英跑步者。
You give the Michael Phelps example.
你举了迈克尔·菲尔普斯的例子。
But maybe you could describe that study.
但也许你可以描述一下这项研究。
I think it's a particularly important one, mostly because, yes, it identifies perhaps physiological or psychological differences between motivated and unmotivated or fit and unfit people, but it also provides a path to remedy that.
我认为这是一个特别重要的问题，主要是因为，是的，它识别了有动力和无动力、健康和不健康的人之间的生理或心理差异，但它也提供了一种补救方法。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
So out of my lab, but also out of several other labs, there's been work looking at that relation between states of the body and visual experiences.
因此，在我的实验室以及其他几个实验室中，一直在研究身体状态与视觉体验之间的关系。
They haven't necessarily tried to integrate the motivation science element to it, but they were looking to see, do visual experiences change as a function of different states of our body?
他们不一定尝试将动机科学元素融入其中，但他们希望看到，视觉体验是否会随着我们身体不同状态的变化而变化？
So they've looked at people who experience chronic fatigue, the elderly, people who are overweight, those that are wearing heavy backpacks and so who are sort of put into that experience of being overweight.
因此，他们研究了患有慢性疲劳的人、老年人、超重的人、背着沉重背包的人以及经历过超重的人。
What happens to their perceptions of the environment?
他们对环境的看法发生了什么变化？
Well, what they find is that distances look further to those that are overweight, chronically tired, older rather than younger, weighted down with extra baggage.
嗯，他们发现，对于那些超重、长期疲劳、年长而不是年轻、背负额外行李的人来说，距离看起来更远。
Distances look farther and hills look steeper.
距离看起来更远，山看起来更陡。
We've done some of those studies, too, where we try to give people more energy or deprive them of energy and see does that change their perception of space.
我们也做了一些这样的研究，我们试图给人们更多的能量或剥夺他们的能量，看看这是否会改变他们对空间的感知。
And we did that by sort of a classic technique of a double-blind study where the participant doesn't really know what they're experiencing.
我们通过双盲研究的经典技术来做到这一点，其中参与者并不真正知道他们正在经历什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I thought you were going to say a double espresso.
我以为你会说双份浓缩咖啡。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
That is also a good psychological experience to give people.
这也是给人一种很好的心理体验。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah, so a double-blind experiment where the participant doesn't really know the full extent of what they're doing or what they're experiencing, and the researcher who's interacting with them also doesn't.
是的，在双盲实验中，参与者并不真正了解他们正在做的事情或正在经历的事情的全部范围，而与他们互动的研究人员也不知道。
They do this a lot in medical studies.
他们在医学研究中经常这样做。
You give somebody a drug, and you give somebody a placebo, a sugar pill, and then importantly, nobody really knows who's got what until you've analyzed all the data and the results are revealed that these are the people that had the drug, the active agent.
你给某人一种药物，给某人一种安慰剂，一颗糖丸，然后重要的是，没有人真正知道谁吃了什么，直到你分析了所有数据并且结果显示这些人服用了药物，活性剂。
Same idea in the psychological research.
心理学研究中也有同样的想法。
In this case, what we did was give people Kool-Aid to drink, and for some people, that Kool-Aid was sweetened with sugar, an actual caloric entity.
在这种情况下，我们所做的就是给人们喝酷爱饮料，对于一些人来说，酷爱饮料是用糖来增甜的，糖是一种真正的热量实体。
It could give them energy.
它可以给他们能量。
Other people drank Kool-Aid sweetened with Splenda.
其他人则喝加了 Splenda 的 Kool-Aid 饮料。
So yeah, it's sweet, but it actually doesn't have any caloric value.
是的，它很甜，但实际上没有任何热量值。
You're not giving people energy, you're just giving them that experience of sweetness.
你不是给人们能量，你只是给他们甜蜜的体验。
Now, some people, of course, are really good at identifying what's real sugar and what's Splenda, but when you put it in a Kool-Aid, a pretty noxious powder, it actually masked it for everybody and nobody had any idea.
现在，当然，有些人真的很擅长识别什么是真正的糖，什么是 Splenda，但是当你将它放入 Kool-Aid（一种相当有毒的粉末）中时，它实际上为每个人掩盖了它，而没有人知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because it tastes like garbage to everybody?
因为它对每个人来说都像垃圾？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
It tastes like garbage.
尝起来像垃圾。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sorry to Kool-Aid.
对不起酷爱。
I'm sure there are many people that love Kool-Aid.
我相信有很多人喜欢Kool-Aid。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I guess the sales of Kool-Aid will reveal the data.
我想Kool-Aid的销量会揭示这个数据。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I grew up in Nebraska, actually, where Kool-Aid is from.
事实上，我是在内布拉斯加州长大的，那里也是酷爱饮料的发源地。
It originated in Nebraska.
它起源于内布拉斯加州。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh.
哦。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
So I do feel like I'm betraying my roots slightly by casting some shade on Kool-Aid.
所以我确实觉得我给酷爱饮料蒙上阴影有点背叛了我的根源。
But that's how it worked, is that we asked them to guess what they got, we tested them afterwards, and they were wrong.
但这就是它的工作原理，我们让他们猜测他们得到了什么，然后我们测试了他们，他们错了。
So nobody was able to guess with accuracy what was your drink sweetened with, which is important because they were blind, the way that scientists use it.
因此，没有人能够准确地猜测出你的饮料中添加了哪些甜味剂，这一点很重要，因为他们对科学家使用它的方式是盲目的。
They didn't know what it was that they were drinking.
他们不知道自己喝的是什么。
We give them about 10 to 15 minutes for that sugar to metabolize, and we measured their circulating blood glucose levels to make sure that we had, in fact, given their body circulating glucose, energy that they might use in the next activity.
我们给他们大约 10 到 15 分钟的时间来代谢糖，并测量他们的循环血糖水平，以确保我们实际上拥有他们的身体循环葡萄糖，即他们可能在下一次活动中使用的能量。
And the researcher, again, didn't know whether they had just served sugar or Splenda.
研究人员再次不知道他们刚刚提供的是糖还是 Splenda。
Then we asked people to estimate distance.
然后我们要求人们估计距离。
So we gave some people more energy, or we kept others sort of at whatever their normal level was.
所以我们给了一些人更多的能量，或者让其他人保持在他们的正常水平。
And what we found is that those people who didn't even know it, but who had been given more energy by drinking Kool-Aid sweetened with sugar, perceived their space as more constricted.
我们发现，那些甚至不知道这一点，但通过喝加糖的酷爱饮料获得更多能量的人，感觉自己的空间更加狭窄。
That visual illusion of proximity was induced.
那种接近的视觉错觉就被诱发了。
They felt that their finish line, again, in the context of an exercise task, was closer to them.
他们再次感到，在一项锻炼任务中，他们的终点线更接近了。
So in just the same way that these other physiology labs, vision science physiology labs, found that people who are chronically tired, who don't feel like they have as much energy, or those that are physically weighted down and for whom moving within an environment is more costly, we could create that experience for people.
因此，就像其他生理学实验室、视觉科学生理学实验室发现，那些长期疲劳、感觉没有那么多精力的人，或者那些身体负担过重以及在环境中移动成本更高的人一样，我们可以为人们创造这种体验。
We did an experimental version of that, that if you have more energy, the world looks easier.
我们做了一个实验版本，如果你有更多的能量，世界看起来会更容易。
The distances to a finish line don't look as far.
到终点线的距离看起来并不遥远。
So that was some of the experimental evidence that we had to show that people's states of their body do impact their visual experience.
这就是我们必须证明人们的身体状态确实会影响他们的视觉体验的一些实验证据。
Now, I'm a motivation researcher, so for me, the big question is, well, what's the point of that study then, besides just showing this connection between the body and the eyes and the visual experience?
现在，我是一名动机研究员，所以对我来说，最大的问题是，除了展示身体和眼睛以及视觉体验之间的联系之外，这项研究的意义是什么？
We think that that's fundamental to one of the reasons that people experience difficulty when they're exercising.
我们认为这是人们在锻炼时遇到困难的根本原因之一。
When it's really harder for your body because of its physical state to move within a space, you might say, "Well, why don't they just go exercise?" Because the world looks harder to them.
当您的身体由于其物理状态而在空间内移动确实变得困难时，您可能会说：“那么，他们为什么不去锻炼呢？”因为世界对他们来说看起来更艰难。
Because that distance that they're supposed to walk because a doctor tells them to, or that a partner encourages them to, or a hill that they should hike up because someone told them that would be good for their health, it looks more challenging to them than it does to somebody who's in better physical health.
因为医生告诉他们应该走的距离，或者伴侣鼓励他们走的距离，或者因为有人告诉他们这对他们的健康有益而应该爬的一座山，所以这对他们来说比对身体健康状况较好的人来说更具挑战性。
Now, if it looks that way, if it looks harder, if it feels like it might be harder, then psychologically, we know that it is.
现在，如果看起来是这样，如果看起来更难，如果感觉可能更难，那么从心理上来说，我们就知道确实如此。
When you have set yourself up psychologically, mentally, for that kind of failure experience, like, "I don't know that I have the resources to get this job done.
当你在心理上、精神上为这种失败经历做好准备时，比如，“我不知道我有资源来完成这项工作。
This looks really hard," you're already motivationally in a place for this task to be closer to impossible for you.
这看起来真的很难，”你已经在动力上认为这项任务对你来说几乎是不可能的。
So to put it all together then, what we know is that people whose bodies might make it more challenging for them to exercise are seeing the world in a more challenging way, and that is having these downstream motivational and psychological effects that makes it less likely for them to try to take on the task in the first place, or to experience it as harder than other people would or do.
总而言之，我们所知道的是，那些身体可能使锻炼变得更具挑战性的人正在以一种更具挑战性的方式看待世界，而这些下游的动机和心理影响使他们不太可能首先尝试承担这项任务，或者体验到比其他人更难的任务。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is the solution the same, however?
然而，解决方案是一样的吗？
Meaning if these people are taught to adjust their visual goal line or to set-
这意味着如果这些人被教导调整他们的视觉目标线或设定-
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a visual spotlight on-
视觉聚光灯——
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
an intermediate goal, can they overcome some of this challenge that they face simply by virtue of their skewed perception?
一个中间目标，他们能否克服仅仅凭借自己扭曲的认知而面临的一些挑战？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yes.
是的。
So in all of the studies that we have done, looking at that connection between this narrowed focus of attention and improvements in exercise, we do not find that it only works for the people who are in shape, or that it backfires for people who are out of shape.
因此，在我们所做的所有研究中，我们着眼于这种注意力集中与锻炼改善之间的联系，我们并没有发现它只对健康的人有效，或者对体形不佳的人适得其反。
It works for everybody.
它对每个人都有效。
This is a strategy that everybody can adopt because it's just simply about what do you allocate attentional resources to?
这是每个人都可以采用的策略，因为这只是关于你将注意力资源分配给什么？
What do you sort of ignore, and what do you focus on?
你会忽略什么，又会关注什么？
And that visually induces the same kind of illusion for everybody, regardless of whether you're overweight, or you're at your target weight, or if you're struggling to get there, or you've already accomplished where you want to be.
这在视觉上会给每个人带来同样的错觉，无论你是否超重，或者你是否达到目标体重，或者你是否正在努力达到目标，或者你已经达到了你想要达到的目标。
That visual illusion can be induced for everybody, and it has the same kinds of consequences.
每个人都会产生这种视觉错觉，并且会产生相同的后果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Terrific.
太棒了。
Earlier, I made a joke about double espresso, but now I'll make a serious statement about double espresso, which is that it contains caffeine, and caffeine is a stimulant, like all other stimulants, cause a change in our visual world.
早些时候，我开了一个关于双份浓缩咖啡的玩笑，但现在我要严肃地声明一下双份浓缩咖啡，那就是它含有咖啡因，而咖啡因是一种兴奋剂，就像所有其他兴奋剂一样，会导致我们视觉世界的改变。
The most salient one is the one that police officers look for, or parents suspecting that their kids have ingested substances of any kind look for, which is if somebody's pupils are unusually large for a given visual environment-
最突出的一个是警察寻找的那个，或者父母怀疑他们的孩子摄入了任何种类物质的寻找，即某人的瞳孔在给定的视觉环境中是否异常大 -
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that is an indication of high levels of autonomic arousal.
这是高水平自主神经唤醒的迹象。
In the street drug translation of this, people who take amphetamine or cocaine will have very big pupils.
在街头毒品翻译中，服用安非他明或可卡因的人会有非常大的瞳孔。
People who are very relaxed have small pupils.
非常放松的人瞳孔很小。
However, everyone should know that pupil size also is dynamically regulated by how bright the visual environment.
然而，每个人都应该知道，瞳孔大小也会受到视觉环境亮度的动态调节。
So there are multiple things controlling pupil size.
因此，控制瞳孔大小的因素有很多。
However, we know that when we are very stressed or very aroused in any way, positive or negative, the pupils get big.
然而，我们知道，当我们以任何方式感到非常有压力或非常兴奋时，无论是积极的还是消极的，瞳孔都会变大。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But within the visual system, what that equates to is a narrowing of the visual aperture.
但在视觉系统中，这相当于视觉孔径的缩小。
So rather than ingesting sugar, which I'm guessing most of the world, certainly the US, needs to ingest less sugar.
因此，我猜世界上大部分地区，当然是美国，需要摄入更少的糖，而不是摄入糖。
At least that's what we're hearing.
至少我们听到的是这样的。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm sure there are a few sugar sucrinistas out there, sucrose-anistas, who will also come after me with pitchforks.
我确信那里有一些蔗糖主义者，蔗糖主义者，他们也会用干草叉来追我。
But let's face it, most people would probably be better off ingesting less simple sugar.
但让我们面对现实吧，大多数人最好少吃单糖。
But caffeine is a great motivator because of the internal sense of arousal, but it also narrows our visual window.
但咖啡因是一种很大的动力，因为它具有内在的兴奋感，但它也缩小了我们的视觉窗口。
I could imagine using healthy amounts of caffeine combined with maybe even blinders of the sort that horses wear, maybe like a hoodie and a hat, maybe even blinders in order to get over some of those more challenging milestones.
我可以想象使用健康量的咖啡因，甚至结合马匹戴的那种眼罩，也许像连帽衫和帽子，甚至可能是眼罩，以便克服一些更具挑战性的里程碑。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is there any evidence that people are doing this without...
有没有任何证据表明人们在没有...
Well, obviously, people are doing it without knowledge of how it works, but are there any studies looking at how adrenaline or epinephrine or any other stimulants impact motivation?
嗯，显然，人们在不知道它是如何工作的情况下就这样做了，但是有没有研究探讨肾上腺素或肾上腺素或任何其他兴奋剂如何影响动机？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
I don't know, honestly.
老实说，我不知道。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And energy drinks are a big thing now.
能量饮料现在很流行。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
For sure they are.
当然是的。
And if you actually are more physiologically aroused or jazzed or whatever, amped up, or you just think you are-
如果你实际上在生理上更加兴奋或兴奋或其他什么，兴奋，或者你只是认为你是-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
...
...
in our studies, we have found that they work in the same way.
在我们的研究中，我们发现它们的工作方式是相同的。
That it can produce the same kinds of consequences.
它可以产生同样的后果。
And I like that because it tells us you can actually change the state of your body to induce these kinds of experiences, or you can just think that.
我喜欢这一点，因为它告诉我们你实际上可以改变你的身体状态来引发这些体验，或者你可以只是这样想。
You can trick yourself.
你可以欺骗自己。
You can placebo effect yourself out and produce the same kinds of effects.
你可以用安慰剂来影响自己并产生同样的效果。
I had to give up coffee 12 years ago, not for any-
12年前我不得不放弃咖啡，不是为了任何-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm so sorry.
我很抱歉。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
I love the taste.
我喜欢这个味道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
And so decaf is my jam.
所以脱咖啡因是我的果酱。
But I can't drink the caffeine because it didn't actually do the thing that it does for so many other people, like make me feel more energized and more awake.
但我不能喝咖啡因，因为它实际上并没有像其他人那样起到作用，比如让我感觉更有活力、更清醒。
I just got sweaty and jittery and anxious, and I couldn't focus.
我浑身出汗、紧张、焦虑，无法集中注意力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Some people who already have a fairly high baseline level of attention and motivation, they find it puts the autonomic seesaw too far in the sympathetic tone.
一些已经具有相当高的注意力和动机基线水平的人，他们发现这使自主神经跷跷板在交感语气中走得太远。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
And I happened to marry the same kind of person.
而我恰好嫁给了同样的人。
He also can't drink caffeine but loves the taste of coffee.
他也不能喝咖啡因，但喜欢咖啡的味道。
The interesting thing is that we both have to have coffee in the morning to feel like we're ready to go for the day.
有趣的是，我们都必须在早上喝咖啡，才能感觉自己已经准备好迎接新的一天。
So it's just part of our routine or whatever to have that taste and have that sensation to feel like I'm ready to take on the day.
所以，这只是我们日常生活的一部分，或者其他什么，有那种味道，有那种感觉，让我感觉我已经准备好迎接这一天了。
Even though, yeah, decaf still has some caffeine in it, but we're not drinking that much of it to probably actually create a caffeinated experience in our body.
尽管，是的，脱咖啡因仍然含有一些咖啡因，但我们喝那么多咖啡可能不会真正在我们的身体中产生含咖啡因的体验。
But we're tricking ourselves psychologically into doing that thing that in years past used to work for us both.
但我们在心理上欺骗自己去做过去几年对我们俩都有效的事情。
So I think that's something to keep in mind.
所以我认为这是需要牢记的。
You might have a hoodie that you can wear to induce that visual illusion, or you can take advantage of the power of your mind.
你可能有一件连帽衫，你可以穿上它来引发视觉错觉，或者你可以利用你的思想的力量。
At the end of the day, I'm a psychologist, and I believe that we have some non-zero power over what our mind is doing, what we're thinking about, what we allocate our attention to, that can do the same kind of thing that a hoodie might do or that a cup of caffeine might do.
归根结底，我是一名心理学家，我相信我们对我们的思想在做什么、我们在想什么、我们将注意力分配到什么方面拥有某种非零的力量，这可以做与一件连帽衫或一杯咖啡可能做的事情一样的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
I completely agree.
我完全同意。
The visual aperture is under our conscious control.
视觉孔径是在我们有意识的控制之下的。
That's an amazing feature of our visual system.
这是我们视觉系统的一个惊人特征。
We can narrow or expand it.
我们可以缩小或扩大它。
It takes a little bit of practice, I think, for people to learn how to do this without moving their head around to expand their visual aperture and how to narrow it.
我认为，人们需要进行一些练习才能学会如何在不移动头部的情况下扩大视野以及如何缩小视野。
But what I always tell people is, just imagine a really troubling text message or a really exciting text message coming in, all of a sudden you forget about the world around you.
但我总是告诉人们的是，想象一下收到一条非常令人不安的短信或一条非常令人兴奋的短信，突然间您会忘记周围的世界。
So it can be triggered by these outside events, and we can learn how to anchor our visual attention.
所以它可以被这些外部事件触发，我们可以学习如何锚定我们的视觉注意力。
I'd love to ask about other kinds of goals, meaning non-physical goals, because many people are trying to read more, I would hope, or learn music or a language or things that really involve cognitive goal lines or internal goal lines.
我很想问其他类型的目标，即非物质目标，因为我希望很多人都在尝试阅读更多内容，或者学习音乐或语言或真正涉及认知目标线或内部目标线的东西。
Reading one chapter out of a book each night is a tangible goal.
每晚阅读一本书的一章是一个切实的目标。
The other that I've often wondered about are these systems that allow you to highlight individual lines or even words on a page.
我经常想知道的另一个问题是这些系统允许您突出显示页面上的单行甚至单词。
That's very visual, obviously, and everything else is ruled out except that word.
显然，这是非常直观的，除了这个词之外，其他一切都被排除了。
I've always wished for books that would naturally highlight each page.
我一直希望书籍能够自然地突出每一页。
And as I say this, someone will put in the comments this has probably existed for 10 years, and I'm just showing what a Luddite I am.
当我这么说时，有人会发表评论，这可能已经存在了 10 年，而我只是在展示我是一个勒德分子。
But is there any example or tactic that people could use to better approach cognitive goals of school, work, recreational too-
但是，是否有任何例子或策略可以让人们更好地实现学校、工作、娱乐的认知目标？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but that don't exist in the kind of fitness and sports domain?
但这在健身和运动领域中不存在吗？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Totally.
完全可以。
Yeah.
是的。
So just a shout-out to my brother-in-law who has done some of that research, where it does highlight different parts of words and paragraphs, and he's found it to be an effective way for English as a second language learners to pick it up.
因此，我要向我的姐夫大声喊叫，他做了一些研究，它确实突出了单词和段落的不同部分，他发现这是英语作为第二语言学习者学习它的有效方法。
That tying that vision to the process of learning language is effective, and so there's a whole cool body of work and researchers looking at that, so you're right about that.
将这一愿景与学习语言的过程联系起来是有效的，因此有很多很酷的工作和研究人员正在关注这一点，所以你是对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you want to mention what he does, is there a place that people can learn more about that?
如果你想提一下他所做的事情，有没有一个地方可以让人们了解更多？
We can provide links if you want.
如果您需要，我们可以提供链接。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah, let me-
是的，让我-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
We will provide links to those resources.
我们将提供这些资源的链接。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I want those resources.
因为我想要那些资源。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've been trying to learn a second language for a long time.
我长期以来一直在努力学习第二语言。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Cool.
凉爽的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I speak Spanish pretty weakly, but I would love to get better at it.
我的西班牙语说得很弱，但我很想学得更好。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
I'll approach you later about that.
我稍后会就此事与您联系。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
My five-year-old son speaks Spanish better than I do at this point, so yeah.
我五岁的儿子现在西班牙语说得比我好，所以是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And clearly better than I do, too.
显然也比我更好。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I was thinking that, too.
我也是这么想的
We started this work within the context of exercise, but of course, that's not people's only goal that they have in life.
我们在锻炼的背景下开始了这项工作，但当然，这并不是人们生活中唯一的目标。
And it isn't mine either.
而且它也不是我的。
I have interests outside of improving my exercise game.
除了提高我的运动能力之外，我还有其他兴趣。
A couple years ago, when I was writing the book, I also had a child.
几年前，当我写这本书时，我也有了一个孩子。
The same month that I had the opportunity to pull all this research together is the same month that my son came to be.
我有机会将所有这些研究整合在一起的同一个月，也是我儿子出生的同一个月。
And I started to realize I became a lot less interesting once he was around.
我开始意识到，一旦他在身边，我就变得不再那么有趣了。
He was fascinating, but I was changing diapers and feeding him, and that was it.
他很迷人，但我只是给他换尿布、喂他，仅此而已。
People would come over like, "What's up?
人们会过来问：“怎么了？
How have you been?
你过得怎么样？
Tell me something that's going on in your life." And all I had to talk about was what was boring, and I just felt like I've lost myself.
告诉我你生活中发生的一些事情。”我不得不谈论的只是无聊的事情，我只是觉得我迷失了自己。
I used to pride myself on the crazy adventures and problems I would get myself in, and I was a great storyteller.
我曾经为自己遇到的疯狂冒险和问题感到自豪，而且我是一个很棒的讲故事的人。
And that all of a sudden disappeared as soon as he came into the world because he became my world.
当他来到这个世界的时候，这种感觉就突然消失了，因为他成了我的世界。
So then I started thinking, like, "I need to pull back some coolness, if I ever had it in the first place, but I need to be a cooler person than I'm coming across right now." So I decided I want to learn to play drums.
于是我开始想，“我需要收回一些冷静，如果我曾经有过的话，但我需要成为一个比现在更冷静的人。”所以我决定要学打鼓。
And I want to be a one-hit wonder as a rockstar drummer.
我想成为一名摇滚明星鼓手，一鸣惊人。
I only want one song because I know I'm not going to be able to do more than that.
我只想要一首歌，因为我知道我无法做更多的事情。
I'm not coordinated at all.
我根本不协调。
From the beginning of time, in fifth grade, I have this really vivid flashbulb memory of playing basketball for the very first time.
从五年级开始，我就对第一次打篮球有着非常生动的闪光灯记忆。
I lost my footing, I knocked into my own teammate, pushed her out of bounds where she had the ball.
我失去了立足点，撞到了自己的队友，将她推出了她持球的界外。
We lost the game, and I was not invited back on the team for the next season.
我们输掉了比赛，我也没有被邀请在下个赛季重返球队。
And so that fermented my self-definition of uncoordinated.
所以这激发了我对不协调的自我定义。
I am a musician, but I am not a drummer, and the idea of coordinating four limbs in real-time was like, "If I could do that, I would be so proud." So that's a goal that I set for myself at the same time that my son came into this world when I was also trying to think about goal setting and how to improve my ability and all of our ability to get a job done when you're faced with some pretty big obstacles.
我是一名音乐家，但我不是鼓手，实时协调四个肢体的想法就像是，“如果我能做到这一点，我会感到非常自豪。”所以这是我在我儿子来到这个世界的同时为自己设定的一个目标，当时我也在努力思考目标设定，以及当你面临一些相当大的障碍时如何提高我的能力和我们完成工作的所有能力。
So I got to practice all these techniques that we're talking about on myself and see for myself.
所以我必须亲自练习我们正在谈论的所有这些技巧并亲眼看看。
When I tell people, "Hey, try this thing," like narrowed focus of attention, does that help with something like becoming a better drummer?
当我告诉人们“嘿，试试这个东西”时，比如缩小注意力焦点，这对成为一名更好的鼓手之类的事情有帮助吗？
And the answer is, yeah.
答案是，是的。
These tactics at least work for me sometimes under some circumstances, and they do for other people who try them for other goals that aren't necessarily about exercise.
这些策略至少在某些情况下有时对我有效，而且对于那些尝试这些策略以实现其他目标（不一定与锻炼有关）的人也有效。
One that I found particularly helpful was overcoming my bad memory, that everybody's memories are faulty, right?
我发现特别有用的一个是克服我糟糕的记忆力，每个人的记忆力都是错误的，对吧？
Everybody has sort of a warped perception of the past.
每个人对过去都有一种扭曲的看法。
It might be skewed more positively than maybe we deserve, or it might be skewed more negatively.
它可能会比我们应得的更加积极地倾斜，或者它可能会更加消极地倾斜。
If you feel that what looms large in your mind as you reflect on something from the past are the mistakes that you've made or the social faux pas that you had, or challenges that you faced at work when you got in trouble with a boss or with a colleague.
如果你觉得当你反思过去的事情时，脑海中浮现出的主要内容是你所犯的错误或你在社交方面的失礼，或者是你在工作中与老板或同事发生麻烦时所面临的挑战。
If that's what really stands out in your mind, or the good side of all of those possibilities, we probably aren't getting the world right.
如果这才是您心中真正突出的，或者是所有这些可能性的好的一面，那么我们可能没有让世界变得正确。
And that is something that our brain has evolved to give us a faulty memory, to level and sharpen, to not encode and remember and be able to recall everything that we've experienced with accuracy and precision.
这是我们的大脑进化而来的，它给了我们错误的记忆，使我们变得平滑和锐利，不编码和记忆，并且能够准确和精确地回忆我们经历过的一切。
And that's a problem when it comes to assessing our own goal progress.
当评估我们自己的目标进展时，这是一个问题。
When we want to be our own accountant and try to determine, how are we doing?
当我们想成为自己的会计师并尝试确定时，我们做得怎么样？
If I want to become a drummer, am I on track for getting there before X, before my time runs out?
如果我想成为一名鼓手，我是否能在 X 之前、在我的时间用完之前到达那里？
Am I going to make it or not?
我到底能不能成功？
And I think that's an experience whether they want to be a drummer or not, that a lot of people can resonate with.
我认为无论他们是否想成为一名鼓手，这都是一种很多人都能产生共鸣的经历。
Trying to determine, is this trajectory, is this rate of progress going to get the job done by X amount of time?
试图确定这个轨迹、这个进度是否能在 X 时间内完成工作？
Will I have my swimsuit body by summer, or will I save enough for retirement by the time I hit 65?
我能在夏天拥有泳装般的身材，还是能在 65 岁时为退休储蓄足够的钱？
For these goals where time is involved and there is a deadline, we do take moments to assess our trajectory.
对于这些涉及时间且有最后期限的目标，我们确实会花一些时间来评估我们的轨迹。
And if we just rely on our memory, we're probably going to do a bad job of assessing that trajectory of knowing whether we're on pace to meeting our deadline.
如果我们仅仅依靠我们的记忆，我们可能会在评估我们是否能按时完成最后期限的轨迹方面做得很糟糕。
And I found that to be the case as I was thinking about, am I actually going to be able to learn this song?
然后我发现确实是这样，我真的能学会这首歌吗？
I know that it's going a lot slower than it probably would for anybody else.
我知道它的进展比其他任何人都慢得多。
But to give myself a deadline and a commitment, I decided I was going to put on a show.
但为了给自己一个最后期限和承诺，我决定要举办一场表演。
I was going to invite everybody I knew and also people I didn't know, and I was going to play my one song for them.
我要邀请所有我认识的人和我不认识的人，我要为他们演奏我的一首歌。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is while writing a book and having-
这是在写一本书并拥有-
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
just had a child.
刚刚有了一个孩子。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
So when you read the book, you'll see my story, and it's the real truth of it.
所以当你读这本书时，你会看到我的故事，这就是它的真相。
I did play that show, and it was fine.
我确实演过那个节目，而且还不错。
And then because I wrote about it in the book, then some other opportunities to play it publicly have come up, and it's like, "All right.
然后因为我在书中写到了它，所以出现了其他一些公开播放它的机会，就像，“好吧。
I told people I can play drums.
我告诉人们我会打鼓。
I better show them that I actually still can play this song."
我最好向他们展示我实际上仍然可以演奏这首歌。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Love it.
喜欢它。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
So that's been fun.
所以这很有趣。
I have become a one-hit wonder.
我已经成为一击奇迹。
If you ask me to play the song again, like encore, it's just going to get that same song a second time.
如果你要求我再次播放这首歌，比如安可，它只会再次播放同一首歌。
So literally one hit wonder.
所以确实一击奇迹。
So in the process of figuring out, am I going to be able to play this show?
所以在弄清楚的过程中，我是否能够参加这个节目？
I sent out invitations.
我发出了邀请。
The date is committed.
日期已确定。
People are coming to listen to my one song.
人们来听我的一首歌。
God bless them.
上帝保佑他们。
How is it going to go?
进展如何？
And it felt awful.
感觉很糟糕。
It just felt like, I am not making progress here, because there's a lot more things that actually are pressing, right?
只是感觉，我在这里没有取得进展，因为实际上还有很多紧迫的事情，对吧？
The kid does need to get fed.
孩子确实需要吃饭。
I do have to go to my day job.
我必须去上班。
The editor is asking for the next draft of this book, and that is going to take precedence like it does for so many people, that things command your bandwidth, even when you have this goal that you've committed to and that you've got on the books.
编辑正在要求本书的下一个草稿，这将是优先考虑的事情，就像对很多人一样，事情会占用你的带宽，即使你有你已经承诺的目标并且你已经在书本上实现了这个目标。
And so I just felt this looming anxiety about this goal that would require, it didn't have to be daily practice, but you can't cram that kind of a goal.
所以我只是感觉到对这个目标的迫在眉睫的焦虑，这需要，它不一定是日常练习，但你不能临时抱佛脚那样的目标。
It does take committed investment for a sustained period of time.
它确实需要持续一段时间的承诺投资。
And so I had this looming anxiety that I'm not making good enough progress.
所以我有一种迫在眉睫的焦虑，因为我没有取得足够好的进展。
But that's because I was relying on my memory and my brain to recall, how many times did you practice?
但那是因为我是靠记忆和大脑回忆的，你练了多少遍？
What was it like the last time you practiced?
上次练习时感觉如何？
What was it like when you tried to play this bit or this riff two weeks ago?
两周前当你尝试演奏这段或这段即兴重复段时，感觉如何？
Have you gotten any better since then?
从那以后你的情况有好转吗？
And it just felt like, no, I haven't practiced enough.
只是感觉，不，我练习得还不够。
I don't remember when the last time I played was, but it definitely doesn't feel like I'm getting any better.
我不记得上次打球是什么时候了，但我绝对感觉自己没有进步。
Then I thought, you know what?
然后我想，你知道吗？
I should stop relying on my brain to tell me where am I at and am I on an upward slope here?
我应该停止依赖我的大脑来告诉我我现在在哪里以及我是否正在上坡？
I need to look at the data.
我需要看看数据。
I love data.
我喜欢数据。
Scientists love data.
科学家热爱数据。
So I started to collect data on myself.
所以我开始收集自己的数据。
What I did was download this app that a friend had told me about called the Reporter App.
我所做的就是下载一个朋友告诉我的名为“记者应用程序”的应用程序。
There's lots of these kinds of things out there.
那里有很多这样的东西。
Basically, it just sets up your phone to randomly ping you with whatever questions you want your phone to ask.
基本上，它只是将您的手机设置为随机向您发送您希望手机询问的任何问题。
It records your answers.
它会记录您的答案。
You can download the data.
您可以下载数据。
You can make pretty graphs to see what's my change and how I've answered these questions over time.
您可以制作漂亮的图表来查看我的变化以及随着时间的推移我如何回答这些问题。
So I did that for a month.
所以我就这样做了一个月。
For a month, I had my phone ask me a couple of times a day, well, maybe twice a day, really, "Did you practice since last time I asked you?" My phone says, "Did you practice?" Mostly it was no, and if yes, then it would funnel a couple of other questions, like, how did you do?
一个月来，我的手机每天都会问我几次，好吧，也许一天两次，真的，“自从我上次问你以来，你有练习吗？”我的手机显示：“你练习了吗？”大多数情况下，答案是否定的，如果是，那么就会引出其他几个问题，比如，你做得怎么样？
How do you feel?
你感觉如何？
Check a couple of different emotion words now about your experience when you played.
现在检查一些关于您玩游戏时的经历的不同情感词。
And I did that for a month.
我这样做了一个月。
After a month, went into my office, downloaded the data, and first took stock before I looked at the numbers, like, "How do I think I did over the last month?" And I thought, "Same as every other month." I didn't really get anywhere.
一个月后，我走进我的办公室，下载了数据，在查看这些数字之前首先进行了盘点，比如，“我认为我上个月的表现如何？”我想，“和其他月份一样。”我真的什么也没得到。
Yeah, I practiced, but I still feel awful.
是的，我练习过，但我还是感觉很糟糕。
And I cried.
我哭了。
I cried having to practice.
我哭着练习。
I was upset with myself for setting this goal and feeling so anxious about it.
我对自己设定这个目标感到不安，并为此感到如此焦虑。
All I remember is that I cried.
我只记得我哭了。
Cried too much about this personal conquest that wouldn't matter to anybody else.
为这种对其他人来说无关紧要的个人征服而哭泣太多。
Honestly, it really doesn't matter in the scope of things anyway.
老实说，无论如何，这在事情的范围内确实并不重要。
I'm not going to become a drummer professionally, so who cares if I embarrass myself publicly?
我不会成为职业鼓手，所以谁在乎我是否在公开场合让自己难堪呢？
But what I found from the data was my memory was totally wrong.
但从资料中我发现我的记忆完全错误了。
I actually had practiced far more times than I remembered, and when I looked at my emotion words that I used, it was a clear upward trajectory.
事实上，我练习的次数比我记忆中的要多得多，当我看到我使用的情感词时，这是一个明显的上升轨迹。
Yeah, I did cry.
是的，我确实哭了。
That part I hadn't misremembered or made up.
这部分不是我记错或编造的。
But by the end of that month, I had gotten a compliment from my husband, who actually is a drummer, and said, "Hey, that wasn't that bad." And then there was one expletive, "You were effing amazing at that one thing you've been practicing at." But, okay, fine, he's my husband, right?
但到了那个月底，我得到了我丈夫的称赞，他实际上是一名鼓手，他说：“嘿，那还不错。”然后是一句脏话，“你一直在练习的那件事真是太棒了。”但是，好吧，好吧，他是我丈夫，对吧？
So at the moment, it didn't really feel that great, and I downplayed it, and as a result, it didn't stick in my brain.
所以当时的感觉并不是那么好，我就淡化了它，结果它就没有留在我的脑海里。
Right?
正确的？
I remember how stupid it felt that I cried because I can't make progress, and I downplayed in my mind the thing that actually should've been a legitimate indicator that progress was being made.
我记得我因为无法取得进展而哭泣的感觉是多么愚蠢，而且我在心里淡化了实际上应该是取得进展的合理指标的事情。
So all of which is to say, I needed to collect that data on myself and to look at it objectively, accurately, and completely because my brain wasn't doing that for me.
所以所有这些都是说，我需要收集关于我自己的数据并客观、准确和完整地看待它，因为我的大脑没有为我做这些。
That visual experience of downloading that data and looking at what was my actual experience gave me better insight as I was trying to assess the trajectory of my progress.
当我试图评估我的进步轨迹时，下载这些数据并查看我的实际经历的视觉体验让我有了更好的洞察力。
I became a more accurate accountant of my own progress, which is important for setting goals or resetting them when you need to calibrate in light of what's left to do and how much time do you have to do it in.
我对自己的进步变得更加准确，这对于设定目标或重新设定目标非常重要，当你需要根据剩余要做的事情以及你需要花多少时间来进行校准时。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love it.
我喜欢它。
So basically, if I understand correctly, when the intermediate goals of, say, daily practice or twice-a-day practice or reading or math, et cetera, are not a visual goal line, it really does help to visualize some aspect related to that non-visual goal line.
所以基本上，如果我理解正确的话，当日常练习或每天两次练习或阅读或数学等中间目标不是视觉目标线时，它确实有助于可视化与非视觉目标线相关的某些方面。
In this case, the Reporter app was a useful tool.
在这种情况下，Reporter 应用程序是一个有用的工具。
I've never heard of it.
我从来没有听说过。
I plan to use it.
我打算使用它。
I'm sure a number of people will be interested in it.
我相信很多人都会对此感兴趣。
Sounds like there are others out there, but that's the one that you found most useful.
听起来好像还有其他的，但这是您发现最有用的一个。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
There's another one too that is even more visual than that, than the Reporter app, although that has visual components and is really effective if you like data and want to collect numbers on yourself or your experience.
还有另一种比 Reporter 应用程序更直观的应用程序，尽管它具有可视化组件，并且如果您喜欢数据并想要收集有关您自己或您的经历的数据，那么它非常有效。
There's another one called the One Second Everyday app.
还有另一个名为“每天一秒”的应用程序。
This is really awesome because the app is a mechanism to record one second of your life.
这真的很棒，因为该应用程序是一种记录您生活中每一秒的机制。
The goal, there's such an awesome community of people that just live by this and love having these experiences.
我们的目标是，有一个很棒的社区，人们以此为生，并喜欢拥有这些体验。
And the creator of it I got a chance to talk with, and he has done this, he's taken a one-second video of some aspect of his life every day for, I don't know, 12 years, 13 years or something.
我有机会与它的创作者交谈，他已经做到了这一点，他每天都会拍摄一段一秒钟的视频，记录他生活的某些方面，我不知道，12 年、13 年还是什么的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One second?
一秒钟？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah, one second.
是的，一秒钟。
And then what the app does is will smash them together and give you a chronology of what your year or your month or your last decade of life has been like and presents it as a streamlined video for you.
然后，该应用程序的作用是将它们粉碎在一起，为您提供您的一年、您的月份或您过去十年生活的年表，并将其作为精简的视频呈现给您。
So you just see these flashes of your life over however long you tell the app to create a montage for you.
因此，无论您告诉应用程序为您创建蒙太奇多久，您都只会看到您生活中的这些闪光。
And so when you see these videos that people have made, especially those that have been doing it for a really long time, it's fascinating.
因此，当你看到人们制作的这些视频时，尤其是那些已经制作了很长时间的视频时，你会感到非常着迷。
I did that for myself, too.
我也为自己这么做过。
I tried it.
我试过了。
One second of today's drumming performance.
今天击鼓表演的一秒钟。
Another second, it's not enough to capture it.
再多一秒，就捕捉不到了。
Am I actually doing a good job of drumming or what's my trajectory for drumming?
我真的打鼓做得很好吗？或者我打鼓的轨迹是什么？
But the guy who made it says one of the most awesome one-second videos that he ever made is of a brick wall.
但制作该视频的人说，他制作过的最精彩的一秒视频之一是关于砖墙的。
I was like, "Well, you didn't need a video of that.
我当时想，“好吧，你不需要那个视频。
What's the wall doing?" It's not crumbling, it's not like an earthquake land or something like that.
墙在做什么？”它没有崩塌，也不像地震之地或类似的东西。
It's just a slightly jittery one second of a brick wall.
这只是一堵砖墙稍微紧张的一秒钟。
And I was like, "How is that motivating or exciting to you?
我当时想，“这对你来说有什么激励或兴奋吗？
You've been doing this for 13 years every day, one second.
13年来，你每天都这样做，一秒钟。
Why is that the one second that matters to you most?" And he says, "Because when it comes up in my montage, it reminds me of a really horrific moment in my family.
为什么那一秒对你来说最重要？”他说：“因为当它出现在我的蒙太奇中时，它让我想起了我家里的一个非常可怕的时刻。
That was the first wall that I saw when I walked out of the room, having heard that my sister-in-law had this awful, awful experience." Her intestines started to twist up on themselves and knot up, and she was on the brink of death.
这是我走出房间时看到的第一堵墙，因为我听说我的嫂子有过如此可怕的经历。”她的肠子开始自行扭曲、打结，她正处于死亡的边缘。
And we had just found this out.
我们刚刚发现了这一点。
She had just gotten into the hospital.
她刚刚进医院。
They diagnosed this issue that required immediate surgery, and our family was there to hear about this, and we were all stunned that she might die, like right now.
他们诊断出这个问题，需要立即手术，我们的家人也在那里听到了这个消息，我们都很惊讶她可能会死，就像现在一样。
She might die.
她可能会死。
And that's the first thing that I saw, and it reminds me of how precious life is, how important family is, and how the rest of whatever we were doing that day didn't matter because we all needed to be here together right now.
这是我看到的第一件事，它提醒我生命是多么宝贵，家庭是多么重要，以及我们那天所做的其他事情并不重要，因为我们现在都需要在一起。
And that is all of this emotion and purpose in life is conjured up or reminded when he looks at one second of a brick wall as it pops into his video feed.
当他看到一堵砖墙突然出现在他的视频中时，所有这些情感和生活目标都会被召唤或提醒。
So if you're visually oriented and you do want ways to remember what was life like, what has my year in review, what does it look like?
因此，如果您以视觉为导向，并且确实想要记住生活是什么样的，我的这一年的回顾是什么，它是什么样子的？
That's an awesome app, One Second Everyday, that can help you do that.
这是一款很棒的应用程序，“每天一秒”，可以帮助您做到这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
These are great recommendations, and a couple of reflections.
这些都是很好的建议，以及一些反思。
First of all, the brick wall example is a beautiful way of highlighting this other feature of the visual system, which is that the brain largely thinks in symbols.
首先，砖墙的例子是一个很好的方式来强调视觉系统的另一个特征，即大脑主要通过符号进行思考。
It's very efficient.
这是非常有效的。
It batches entire experiences into symbols.
它将整个体验批量化为符号。
In this case, the brick wall can be attached to a whole set of experiences that are very meaningful to this individual, that brick walls don't mean that or didn't mean that-
在这种情况下，砖墙可以附加到对这个人来说非常有意义的一整套体验，砖墙并不意味着或者没有意味着-
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to me until hearing this.
对我来说直到听到这个。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I think that it highlights the fact that the actual symbol is less relevant than what we attach to that symbol, but that symbols are so efficient that even in a one-second view of something, we can attach to it, for better or for worse.
因此，我认为它强调了这样一个事实：实际符号的相关性不如我们附加到该符号的符号，但该符号非常有效，即使在某事物的一秒钟视图中，我们也可以附加到它，无论好坏。
The other is that I'm a absolute, almost rabid proponent of people getting morning sunlight in their eyes as the fundamental layer of setting their circadian rhythms and sleep and health as a zero-cost practice that, believe it or not, can be done any time of year, anywhere.
另一个是，我是一个绝对的、近乎狂热的支持者，认为人们让早晨的阳光照射在眼睛上，作为设置昼夜节律、睡眠和健康的基本层，作为一种零成本的实践，不管你相信与否，可以在一年中的任何时间、任何地方进行。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it does take a little bit of effort.
但这确实需要一点努力。
You have to get outside.
你必须出去。
You can't do it through a window or windshield for it to be efficient, but it has huge outsize effects on human health.
你无法通过窗户或挡风玻璃来有效地做到这一点，但它对人类健康有着巨大的影响。
This has now been demonstrated again and again.
现在这一点已被一再证明。
And so I'm going to just do a sort of call to action if people aren't already doing this.
因此，如果人们还没有这样做的话，我将做一些号召性用语。
I'm going to start using the One Second app to record my morning sunlight viewing and prove that even through cloud cover, you're getting more photons than you are indoors, and that it's worthwhile.
我将开始使用“一秒”应用程序来记录我早晨看到的阳光，并证明即使穿过云层，您也能获得比室内更多的光子，而且这是值得的。
I also would love to do this for my next dog to go from puppy to full-size dog and maybe even to the end.
我也很乐意为我的下一只狗做这件事，从小狗到全尺寸的狗，甚至可能到最后。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Who knows?
谁知道？
Great.
伟大的。
These are wonderful tools.
这些都是很棒的工具。
You've given us a huge number of practical tools, which frankly isn't always the case on these podcasts.
您为我们提供了大量实用工具，但坦率地说，这些播客的情况并不总是如此。
We always strive to do science and science-based tools as our kind of mantra, but you've given a rich set of tools here to apply.
我们始终致力于将科学和基于科学的工具作为我们的座右铭，但您在这里提供了一套丰富的工具可供应用。
I just want to briefly backtrack to something and then a final question.
我只想简单地回溯一下最后一个问题。
Earlier, we were talking about how unfit people see the world as more challenging, maybe even hills as steeper, distances as further, and how shifting people into a state of energy, either cognitively or through the ingestion of real glucose-
早些时候，我们讨论了不健康的人如何看待世界更具挑战性，甚至山更陡，距离更远，以及如何通过认知或通过摄入真正的葡萄糖将人们转变为能量状态——
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to get an energetic lift, or maybe through caffeine, if that's within their practice and span of healthy behaviors, they could do that.
获得精力充沛，或者通过咖啡因，如果这在他们的实践和健康行为范围内，他们可以这样做。
There's so many people who are suffering from depression, which one of the key features of depression is a lack of energy.
有很多人患有抑郁症，而抑郁症的主要特征之一就是缺乏活力。
Even though there can be anxiety associated with depression, I have to wonder whether or not some of these tools are being deployed or will be deployed in the context of mental health, because depression is this vicious loop, right?
尽管抑郁症可能会带来焦虑，但我不得不想知道其中一些工具是否正在或将在心理健康的背景下使用，因为抑郁症就是这种恶性循环，对吗？
People feel a lack of energy and hopelessness-
人们感到缺乏活力和绝望——
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then things just look harder, and so then it just-
然后事情看起来就更困难了，所以然后就-
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
verifies their negative worldview, and it's a downward spiral.
验证了他们消极的世界观，这是一个螺旋式下降。
That's why medication in some cases, and social support, et cetera, can be helpful because they feel more energized.
这就是为什么在某些情况下药物治疗和社会支持等会有所帮助，因为他们感觉更有活力。
The side effects often are a problem, however.
然而，副作用往往是一个问题。
Have there been any efforts to implement some of these visual tools to create this increase in systolic blood pressure and a kind of readiness and willingness to lean into what people perceive as immense challenge?
是否有任何努力来实施其中一些视觉工具，以增加收缩压，并准备好并愿意接受人们认为是巨大的挑战？
And if not, for anyone listening, I know we have a lot of listeners in the mental health space and in the helping space, so to speak.
如果没有，对于任何听众来说，我知道我们在心理健康领域和帮助领域有很多听众，可以这么说。
I can imagine these are zero cost, right?
我可以想象这些都是零成本，对吗？
People are sighted, have the apparati to do it.
人们有眼光，有设备来做这件事。
Are you aware of any studies like this, or is your laboratory involved in any studies?
您是否知道任何此类研究，或者您的实验室是否参与了任何研究？
Because I just see an immense value of implementing the sorts of tools that you've developed.
因为我看到了实施您开发的各种工具的巨大价值。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
We haven't explored those ideas directly, so call to all the scientists that are out there.
我们还没有直接探索这些想法，因此请召集所有科学家。
There's a great opportunity to start looking at these tools within the mental health space.
现在是开始在心理健康领域研究这些工具的绝佳机会。
You're right.
你说得对。
Other researchers, though, have not this use of inducing a narrowed attentional focus, and can they now feel more energized to go for a run?
然而，其他研究人员并没有利用这种方法来缩小注意力集中范围，他们现在可以感到更有活力去跑步吗？
But they have looked at the relationship between anxiety, depression, and visual experience, and found, over decades, evidence that people with depression or with anxiety, what their attention is captured by within the bigger global surrounding world are those things that are negative or reinforcing of their worldview.
但他们研究了焦虑、抑郁和视觉体验之间的关系，并发现，几十年来的证据表明，患有抑郁症或焦虑症的人，在更大的全球周围世界中吸引他们注意力的是那些消极或强化他们世界观的事物。
Now, that happens for everybody, that things that are on our mind tend to pop out, that if whatever we're thinking about, we might start seeing some version of it showing up in the world around us that captures our attention.
现在，这种情况发生在每个人身上，我们脑海中的事情往往会突然出现，如果我们在想什么，我们可能会开始看到它的某个版本出现在我们周围的世界中，吸引我们的注意力。
That's an idea called priming.
这就是一个叫做启动的想法。
What we're thinking about might then lead us to attend to the world, to see things in a way that aligns with what we're already thinking about.
我们正在思考的事情可能会引导我们关注世界，以与我们已经在思考的事情一致的方式看待事物。
It's just that when what we're thinking about are those depressive, ruminative, anxiety, fearful thoughts, when that is what is cognitively accessible, when that's what's going through our mind, then that's also what captures our visual gaze.
只是当我们想到的是那些抑郁、沉思、焦虑、恐惧的想法时，当这些想法是认知上可以理解的，当这些想法在我们的脑海中闪过时，那么这也正是捕捉我们视觉凝视的东西。
So when we think the world is hard, the world is full of sadness, and that's the thought in our mind, and then we start seeing the people with frowns on their faces or who are experiencing anxiety, and that's what captures our attention, even when there's other people around that might not be seeing the world or experiencing the world that way, it becomes reinforcing.
因此，当我们认为世界很艰难，世界充满悲伤，这就是我们脑海中的想法，然后我们开始看到人们皱着眉头或正在经历焦虑时，这就是吸引我们注意力的原因，即使周围其他人可能没有以这种方式看待世界或体验世界，它就会变得强化。
When I think that the world is threatening, and then I notice the threats that are around me, that confirms what I'm thinking, which heightens my anxiety or my fear, and then it further leads me to narrowly focus on those elements of the environment that are aligned with that worldview.
当我认为世界正在受到威胁，然后我注意到我周围的威胁时，这证实了我的想法，这加剧了我的焦虑或恐惧，然后它进一步引导我狭隘地关注那些与该世界观相符的环境元素。
It's really hard to get out of that.
真的很难摆脱这种情况。
That's where the vicious cycle can come from.
这就是恶性循环的根源。
So that has been really well established within the medical community, this selective attention relating to states of mental unwellness.
因此，这种选择性关注与精神不健康状态有关，这在医学界已经得到了很好的证实。
That's been pretty well established.
这已经非常确定了。
And so there's been some interventions done with people that have depression or anxiety, saying like, "Here's an array, a photograph of a bunch of different faces." Yes, it's artificial.
因此，对患有抑郁症或焦虑症的人进行了一些干预措施，比如“这是一个数组，一张一堆不同面孔的照片。”是的，这是人工的。
It kind of looks like a page from a yearbook, a high school yearbook.
它看起来有点像年鉴中的一页，一本高中年鉴。
But look for the faces that are smiling.
但要寻找那些微笑的面孔。
Look at the faces that are smiling.
看看那些微笑的脸。
Try right now.
立即尝试。
Spend 10 minutes having your eyes focus on those and look at those people.
花 10 分钟让你的眼睛集中在那些人身上。
That it is an effective intervention at improving people's sense of self-efficacy, of what can I accomplish next?
这是一种有效的干预措施，可以提高人们的自我效能感，以及我下一步可以完成什么？
They feel a little bit more energized.
他们感觉更有活力了一些。
It doesn't cure depression.
它不能治愈抑郁症。
It doesn't cure anxiety.
它不能治愈焦虑。
I mean, these are literal physical afflictions that we have, so it's not a quick fix.
我的意思是，这些都是我们所遭受的实际身体痛苦，所以这不是一个快速解决办法。
But it can produce a temporary change that might be a way to start getting out of that rut.
但它可以产生暂时的变化，这可能是摆脱困境的一种方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yeah, and I think nowadays there's an increasing attention on tools that will help people orient as they start to veer towards-
是的，我认为现在人们越来越关注能够帮助人们确定方向的工具，因为他们开始转向-
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
suicidal depression or veer back into a depressive episode or anxiety episode.
自杀性抑郁症或重新陷入抑郁发作或焦虑发作。
Trying to reverse an entire syndrome or set of syndromes is far more complicated.
试图扭转整个综合症或一组综合症要复杂得多。
Likewise, in the health space, just trying to get people to deploy real-time tools to adjust their anxiety or to exercise more often, and so on.
同样，在健康领域，只是试图让人们部署实时工具来调整他们的焦虑或更频繁地锻炼等等。
As a final, but also high-level question, I'm imagining that...
作为最后一个也是高层次的问题，我想象......
And I plan to use this visual goal setting of spotlighting.
我计划使用这种聚光灯的视觉目标设置。
I've been using it actually for some time on runs.
我实际上已经在跑步中使用它有一段时间了。
It works really well.
效果非常好。
Yesterday, I took a run near the waterfront here, and I think I did it somewhat incorrectly.
昨天，我在这儿的海滨附近跑步，我想我做得有些不正确。
The entire run, I was thinking about getting back to the statue- ...
整个跑步过程中，我一直在想回到雕像那里——...
at which I started.
我从那时开始。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I did find that I ran fastest in the final 20 meters-
但我确实发现我在最后20米跑得最快——
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Cool
酷
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
which admittedly wasn't fast at all, but it was faster than what preceded it.
诚然，这根本不快，但比之前的速度要快。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it works, and it makes perfect sense as to how it works.
所以它是有效的，而且它的工作原理也是完全有道理的。
You've done other studies exploring some of the other features of vision, like the luminosity, how bright something is, and how people perceive it.
您还进行了其他研究，探索视觉的其他一些特征，例如亮度、物体的亮度以及人们如何感知它。
That was in a completely different context.
那是在完全不同的背景下。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But is there a higher level, a black belt version of what we're talking about here, where not only am I focusing on a specific visual location as an intermediate or a long-term goal, or I'm using an app to ask me a question and tap into how I'm feeling, create a visual representation of my motivational state, but that I'm also making my phone as bright as possible.
但是，是否有一个更高层次的黑带版本，我不仅专注于特定的视觉位置作为中期或长期目标，或者我使用应用程序来问我一个问题并挖掘我的感受，创建我的动机状态的视觉表示，而且我还让我的手机尽可能明亮。
I'm also trying to take that visual window and actually pay attention to more of the details at that location.
我还尝试利用该视觉窗口并实际上关注该位置的更多细节。
Or is it simply a matter of, in geek speak visual neuroscience, we would just call this low spatial frequency, just grabbing a black-and-white snapshot of something-
或者这只是一个问题，用极客的话来说，视觉神经科学，我们只是称之为低空间频率，只是抓取某物的黑白快照-
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
here or there in my mind.
在我的脑海中或那里。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If I attach more detail and effort to the specific thing that I'm focused on, is there any evidence that that's more effective?
如果我在我关注的具体事情上投入更多细节和精力，是否有任何证据表明这会更有效？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
It certainly changes what our brains are doing.
它肯定会改变我们大脑的行为。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
So, how do we define effectiveness?
那么，我们如何定义有效性呢？
That's a question for philosophers and that scientists will always debate.
这是哲学家和科学家们永远争论的问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Will it keep me running?
它会让我继续奔跑吗？
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah.
是的。
It will when you use it towards the end of your run, just like you've picked up on.
当您在跑步即将结束时使用它时，它就会发挥作用，就像您已经掌握的那样。
Yeah.
是的。
So, there's cool studies that neuroscientists, not I, not coming from my lab, that neuroscientists have done looking at what is it doing to your brain when you've decided that you're going to focus your attention on this element of the world and not pay attention to something else.
所以，有一些很酷的研究，是神经科学家，不是我，不是来自我的实验室，神经科学家已经完成了这些研究，研究当你决定将注意力集中在世界的这个元素上而不注意其他事情时，它会对你的大脑产生什么影响。
Is that just tricking your thoughts, or is it doing something different to something more basic, more low level?
这只是在欺骗你的想法，还是在做一些与更基本、更低层次的事情不同的事情？
And the answer is yes.
答案是肯定的。
So there's an area of the brain, the fusiform face area.
大脑中有一个区域，即梭状面部区域。
It's part of our brain that's really specialized for making sense of faces.
它是我们大脑中专门负责理解面孔的部分。
It's important as a social species to pay attention to other people, pay attention to their faces, what they're trying to communicate through their face.
作为一个社会物种，关注其他人、关注他们的面部表情以及他们试图通过面部表情传达的信息非常重要。
And so our brain has developed a really specialized central area for doing that.
因此，我们的大脑已经开发出一个非常专门的中心区域来做到这一点。
So these neuroscientists will present a face to somebody, but superimposed over that is a house or something else that is less special to us as a social human species.
因此，这些神经科学家会向某人展示一张面孔，但叠加在上面的是一座房子或其他对我们作为社会人类物种来说不那么特别的东西。
And so both of those things, because both images are transparent, overlaid over one another, our eyes are getting both of those images in, and our brain is getting both of those images in, but we can will ourselves to focus on the house.
所以这两件事，因为两个图像都是透明的，彼此重叠，我们的眼睛正在接收这两个图像，我们的大脑正在接收这两个图像，但我们可以意志自己将注意力集中在房子上。
Just really pay attention to the features of the house, even though everything about that face is still there, too.
只要真正注意房子的特征，即使那张脸的一切都还在那里。
Or pay attention to the face.
或者注意脸部。
And just tell me, what is it that you are deciding that you want to hold onto, that you want to look at right now?
告诉我，你决定要抓住什么，你现在想看什么？
And you can see that the brain is responding to that.
你可以看到大脑正在对此做出反应。
So when people are saying, "I'm really seeing that face, the details of the face.
所以当人们说：“我真的看到了那张脸，脸上的细节。
I'm paying attention to the face," even though we know their eyes are also looking at and engaged with the contents of the house that's right there smacked on top, the fusiform face area lights up.
我正在注意脸，”尽管我们知道他们的眼睛也在看着并与位于顶部的房子里的东西接触，但梭形的面部区域还是亮起来的。
And when they're saying, "No, I'm really focused on the house now," we see activation of the fusiform face area decline and other areas of the brain's neurological real estate start to engage.
当他们说“不，我现在真正关注的是房子”时，我们看到梭状面部区域的激活下降，而大脑神经系统的其他区域开始参与进来。
So, yeah.
所以，是的。
I think there's something to it that we can, at a high level, our brains are responding to our psychology as well, and we have that great power to really, with intention, with practice, decide, how do I want to engage with the world?
我认为，在高水平上，我们的大脑也可以对我们的心理做出反应，而且我们有强大的力量，可以真正地、有意地、通过实践来决定，我想如何与世界互动？
And can it produce real change in our bodies and in the way that we experience the world?
它能否给我们的身体以及我们体验世界的方式带来真正的改变？
The answer is yes.
答案是肯定的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Fantastic.
太棒了。
Well, you've given us a ton of mechanistic and conceptual and practical information.
嗯，你给了我们大量的机械、概念和实用信息。
So I'm speaking for a lot of people when I say thank you for taking the time out of your schedule amidst kids-
所以，当我说谢谢你们抽出时间与孩子们在一起时，我是在代表很多人——
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and running a lab and teaching at the university.
并在大学运营实验室和教学。
And your book, which we will point people to and provide a link to, is a wonderful resource, and we hope to have you back again.
我们将向人们推荐您的书并提供链接，这是一个很好的资源，我们希望您再次回来。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Thank you so much.
非常感谢。
This was a great conversation.
这是一次很棒的谈话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
艾米莉·巴尔塞蒂斯博士：
Thanks.
谢谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me today for our discussion about motivation, goal-seeking, and research-supported tools for achieving your goals with Dr. Emily Balcetis.
感谢您今天加入我，与 Emily Balcetis 博士一起讨论实现目标的动机、目标寻求和研究支持的工具。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on Apple and Spotify.
此外，请订阅 Apple 和 Spotify 上的播客。
And on both Apple and Spotify, you can leave us up to a five-star review.
在 Apple 和 Spotify 上，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。
Please leave us any comments or suggestions or ideas for future guests or questions about particulars of any podcast episode in the comment section on YouTube.
请在 YouTube 的评论部分给我们留下任何对未来嘉宾的评论、建议或想法，或者对任何播客剧集的详细信息有疑问。
We do read all the comments.
我们确实阅读了所有评论。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning of today's episode and check out Athletic Greens.
另请查看今天节目开头提到的赞助商并查看运动果岭。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
In addition, please check out our Neural Network Newsletter.
此外，请查看我们的神经网络通讯。
That is a zero-cost newsletter available to anyone.
这是任何人都可以获取的零成本时事通讯。
You just provide an email, and we do not share your email with anybody.
您只需提供一个电子邮件地址，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件地址。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com 即可。
You go to the menu, you look for the Neural Network Newsletter, and by signing up for the newsletter, you can get summaries of podcast episodes, detailed lists of protocols related to podcast episodes.
您进入菜单，查找神经网络新闻通讯，通过注册新闻通讯，您可以获得播客剧集的摘要以及与播客剧集相关的协议的详细列表。
Again, all zero cost.
再次强调，一切都是零成本。
We don't share your information.
我们不会分享您的信息。
And if you'd like to see examples of previous newsletters, they're also available on our website, hubermanlab.com.
如果您想查看以前的时事通讯示例，也可以在我们的网站 hubermanlab.com 上找到它们。
If you're not already following us on social media, we are hubermanlab on both Twitter and Instagram.
如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我们，我们在 Twitter 和 Instagram 上都是 hubermanlab。
There, I cover science and science-related tools, some of which overlap with the contents of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在那里，我介绍了科学和科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客上的信息不同。
Again, it's hubermanlab on Instagram and hubermanlab on Twitter.
同样，Instagram 上是 hubermanlab，Twitter 上是 hubermanlab。
And as mentioned at the beginning of today's episode, we are now partnered with Momentous Supplements because they make single-ingredient formulations that are of the absolute highest quality, and they ship international.
正如今天节目开头提到的，我们现在与 Momentous Supplements 合作，因为他们生产的单一成分配方具有绝对最高的质量，并且可以国际运输。
If you go to livemomentous.com/huberman, you will find many of the supplements that have been discussed on various episodes of the Huberman Lab podcast, and you will find various protocols related to those supplements.
如果您访问 livemomentous.com/huberman，您会发现许多在 Huberman Lab 播客的各个剧集中讨论过的补充剂，并且您会发现与这些补充剂相关的各种协议。
So thank you once again for joining us today for our discussion about the science and science-related tools of motivation, goal-seeking, and pursuit.
再次感谢您今天加入我们关于科学以及与科学相关的动机、目标寻求和追求工具的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。