Dr. Craig Koniver: Peptide & Hormone Therapies for Health, Performance & Longevity

Andrew: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

安德鲁：欢迎来到胡伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。

Andrew: I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

安德鲁：我是安德鲁·休伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

My guest today is Dr. Craig Koniver.

今天我的嘉宾是克雷格·科尼弗博士。

Dr. Craig Koniver is a medical doctor who did his training at Brown University and Thomas Jefferson University.

克雷格·科尼弗 (Craig Koniver) 博士是一名医生，曾在布朗大学和托马斯·杰斐逊大学接受培训。

He is a world expert in what he refers to as performance medicine, which involves the use of peptides and other therapies for improving mental health, physical health, and performance.

他是他所称的“性能医学”领域的世界专家，该医学涉及使用肽和其他疗法来改善心理健康、身体健康和性​​能。

Now, many of you have perhaps heard of peptide therapies.

现在，你们中的许多人可能听说过肽疗法。

Perhaps some of you have not.

也许你们中的一些人还没有。

A peptide is simply a small protein, so insulin is a peptide.

肽只是一种小蛋白质，因此胰岛素也是一种肽。

We have many different thousands of peptides in our brain and body, and they perform a variety of different roles.

我们的大脑和身体中有数千种不同的肽，它们发挥着各种不同的作用。

Dr. Koniver's expertise is in the use of exogenous, that is, peptides that one takes, exogenous peptides, for activating multiple pathways in the brain and body to augment health.

Koniver 博士的专长是使用外源性肽，即人们服用的肽，外源性肽，激活大脑和身体中的多种途径以增强健康。

Now, of course, peptides such as insulin have been used for many years now to treat things like diabetes, but today we talk about novel peptides, including GLP-1.

当然，胰岛素等肽已被用于治疗糖尿病等疾病多年，但今天我们谈论的是新型肽，包括 GLP-1。

These are glucagon-like peptide analogs, things like Ozempic and Mounjaro, which I realize are a bit controversial.

这些是胰高血糖素样肽类似物，例如 Ozempic 和 Mounjaro，我意识到它们有点争议。

However, today we talk about the microdosing of those peptides.

然而，今天我们讨论这些肽的微剂量。

We talk about those peptides combined with other peptides, as well as behavioral practices to offset the muscle loss associated with them.

我们讨论这些肽与其他肽的结合，以及抵消与它们相关的肌肉损失的行为实践。

Then we dive into some lesser-known peptides, but ones that are growing in use.

然后我们深入研究一些鲜为人知但使用量不断增加的肽。

For instance, BPC-157, or Body Protection Compound-157, which is used to treat inflammation, to accelerate wound healing, and a variety of other things.

例如，BPC-157，或身体保护化合物-157，用于治疗炎症、加速伤口愈合和各种其他作用。

Then we discuss the use of peptides specifically to increase growth hormone secretion during sleep, as well as some peptides that can actually increase rapid eye movement sleep dramatically.

然后我们讨论专门使用肽来增加睡眠期间生长激素的分泌，以及一些实际上可以显着增加快速眼动睡眠的肽。

Today, we also discuss testosterone therapies, not just for men, but for women.

今天，我们还讨论睾酮疗法，不仅适用于男性，也适用于女性。

These are growing increasingly popular, as well as things like NAD as well as specific supplements.

这些产品以及 NAD 和特定补充剂等越来越受欢迎。

Dr. Koniver, as he will soon tell you, is not a huge proponent of supplements, but he does mention several that he feels are of particular use, including things like coenzyme Q10, and some of the methylated B vitamins, and he explains why he takes that stance.

Koniver 博士很快就会告诉您，他并不是补充剂的大力支持者，但他确实提到了几种他认为特别有用的补充剂，包括辅酶 Q10 和一些甲基化 B 族维生素等，并且他解释了为什么他采取这一立场。

Today's discussion is really for anybody interested in mental health, physical health, and performance.

今天的讨论确实适合任何对心理健康、身体健康和表现感兴趣的人。

The reason I say that is that even if you aren't considering taking peptides or already taking peptides, peptides and some of these other compounds I've mentioned sit somewhere between doing nothing except diet and exercise, supplements, which I see as the next step up the ladder in terms of augmenting your health approaches, and then of course, there are a number of prescription drugs, including hormone therapies, such as growth hormone therapies, testosterone therapies, and a number of other things that yes, can modify those hormone pathways, they are, in fact, hormones, but they actually can shut down one's natural production of those hormone pathways.

我这么说的原因是，即使你不考虑服用肽或已经服用肽，肽和我提到的一些其他化合物，除了饮食和锻炼之外什么都不做，补充品，我认为这是增强你的健康方法的下一步，当然，还有许多处方药，包括激素疗法，如生长激素疗法、睾酮疗法，以及许多其他可以改变这些激素途径的药物，事实上，它们是，激素，但它们实际上可以关闭这些激素途径的自然产生。

Peptide therapy sits somewhere between doing nothing and supplementation and those more advanced hormone therapies.

肽疗法介于什么都不做和补充以及那些更先进的激素疗法之间。

That's why peptide therapies, I believe, are growing in popularity.

我相信，这就是肽疗法越来越受欢迎的原因。

They can augment specific hormone pathways.

它们可以增强特定的激素途径。

They can augment specific, in fact, multiple processes within the brain and body to augment health, but they don't tend to operate in that negative feedback cycle by shutting down one's own endogenous production.

事实上，它们可以增强大脑和身体内的特定多个过程以增强健康，但它们往往不会通过关闭自身的内源性生产来在负反馈循环中发挥作用。

Now, that doesn't mean that they aren't without some safety concerns.

现在，这并不意味着他们不存在一些安全问题。

Today, we of course discuss the potential side effects and safety concerns of peptides, as well as the critical issue of sourcing clean peptides and working with a board-certified physician if one is going to pursue peptide use.

今天，我们当然会讨论肽的潜在副作用和安全问题，以及如果想要使用肽，采购清洁肽并与经过委员会认证的医生合作的关键问题。

By the end of today's discussion, you will be right there on the cutting edge of what's happening and where things are going with peptides.

在今天的讨论结束时，您将处于肽正在发生的事情和发展方向的最前沿。

In keeping with that, you'll notice that during today's discussion, we talk a fair amount about what the FDA currently allows in terms of prescription peptides, what the FDA has recently removed from the market in terms of peptides.

与此相一致，您会注意到，在今天的讨论中，我们大量讨论了 FDA 目前允许的处方肽以及 FDA 最近从市场上删除的肽。

As a very recent update, just prior to the release of this episode, I learned that three peptides, CJC-1295, Ipamorelin, both of which are in the growth hormone secretagogue family, meaning they promote the release of growth hormone, as well as thymosin beta-alpha, which is in the sort of anti-inflammatory and tissue repair pathway, those three are now re-allowed for prescription in the United States.

作为最近的更新，就在本集发布之前，我了解到三种肽，CJC-1295、伊帕瑞林，这两种肽都属于生长激素促分泌素家族，这意味着它们促进生长激素的释放，以及胸腺肽β-α，它属于抗炎和组织修复途径，这三种肽现在在美国重新允许处方。

At the time of recording this episode, we discussed some of those as being recently banned by the FDA.

在录制本集时，我们讨论了其中一些最近被 FDA 禁止的产品。

They are now approved again for use in humans by the FDA.

现在 FDA 再次批准它们用于人类。

There's a brief and very recent update.

有一个简短且最新的更新。

Just to summarize this admittedly long introduction, today you're going to learn about this incredible area of science called peptide biology and how it can augment mental health, physical health, and performance.

总结一下这个公认的冗长的介绍，今天您将了解这个令人难以置信的科学领域，称为肽生物学，以及它如何增强心理健康、身体健康和表现。

You're going to do so from one of the world's leading clinical experts.

您将由世界领先的临床专家之一来完成此操作。

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。

In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。

Our first sponsor is Joovv.

我们的第一个赞助商是Joovv。

Joovv makes medical-grade red light therapy devices.

Joovv 生产医疗级红光治疗设备。

Now, if there's one thing that I have consistently emphasized on this podcast, it is the incredible impact that light can have on our biology.

现在，如果我在这个播客中一直强调一件事，那就是光对我们的生物学产生的令人难以置信的影响。

Now, in addition to sunlight, red light and near infrared light sources have been shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of cellular and organ health, including faster muscle recovery, improved skin health and wound healing, improvements in acne, reduced pain and inflammation, even mitochondrial function, and improving vision itself.

现在，除了阳光之外，红光和近红外光源已被证明对改善细胞和器官健康的许多方面具有积极作用，包括更快的肌肉恢复、改善皮肤健康和伤口愈合、改善痤疮、减少疼痛和炎症，甚至线粒体功能，以及改善视力本身。

What sets Joovv lights apart and why they're my preferred red light therapy device is that they use clinically proven wavelengths, meaning specific wavelengths of red light and near-infrared light in combination to trigger the optimal cellular adaptations.

Joovv 灯的与众不同之处以及它们成为我首选红光治疗设备的原因在于它们使用经过临床验证的波长，这意味着特定波长的红光和近红外光相结合可以触发最佳的细胞适应。

Personally, I used the Joovv whole body panel about three to four times a week, and I use the Joovv handheld light both at home and when I travel.

就我个人而言，我每周大约使用 Joovv 全身面板三到四次，在家和旅行时我都会使用 Joovv 手持灯。

If you'd like to try Joovv, you can go to joovv, spelled, J-O-O-V-V.com/huberman.

如果您想尝试 Joovv，可以访问 joovv、spelled、J-O-O-V-V.com/huberman。

Joovv is offering an exclusive discount to all Huberman Lab listeners with up to $400 off Joovv products.

Joovv 为所有 Huberman Lab 听众提供独家折扣，Joovv 产品最高可享受 400 美元的折扣。

Again, that's joovv, spelled, J-O-O-V-V.com/huberman to get up to $400 off.

再说一次，这是 joovv，拼写为 J-O-O-V-V.com/huberman，最高可享受 400 美元的折扣。

Today's episode is also brought to us by BetterHelp.

今天的节目也是由 BetterHelp 为我们带来的。

BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online.

BetterHelp 提供由持证治疗师完全在线进行的专业治疗。

Therapy is an extremely important component to overall health.

治疗是整体健康极其重要的组成部分。

In fact, I consider doing regular therapy just as important as getting regular exercise, including cardiovascular exercise and resistance training exercise.

事实上，我认为定期治疗与定期锻炼一样重要，包括心血管锻炼和阻力训练。

Now, there are essentially three things that great therapy provides.

现在，伟大的治疗基本上可以提供三件事。

First, it provides a good rapport with somebody that you can really trust and talk to about any and all issues that concern you.

首先，它与您真正信任的人建立了良好的融洽关系，并可以与您谈论您关心的任何和所有问题。

Second of all, great therapy provides support in the form of emotional support, but also directed guidance, the dos and the not-to-dos.

其次，伟大的治疗以情感支持的形式提供支持，但也提供定向指导、该做的事和不该做的事。

Third, expert therapy can help you arrive at useful insights that you would not have arrived at otherwise.

第三，专家治疗可以帮助您获得有用的见解，否则您将无法获得这些见解。

Insights that allow you to do better, not just in your emotional life, in your relationship life, but also the relationship to yourself and your professional life, and all sorts of career goals.

这些见解可以让你做得更好，不仅在你的情感生活、你的人际关系生活中，而且还包括你自己和你的职业生活以及各种职业目标的关系。

With BetterHelp, they make it very easy to find an expert therapist with whom you can really resonate with and provide you with these three benefits that I described.

通过 BetterHelp，他们可以很容易地找到一位可以真正与您产生共鸣的专家治疗师，并为您提供我所描述的这三个好处。

Also, because BetterHelp is carried out entirely online, it's very time-efficient and easy to fit into a busy schedule with no commuting to a therapist's office or sitting in a waiting room or looking for a parking spot.

此外，由于 BetterHelp 完全在线进行，因此非常省时，并且可以轻松适应繁忙的日程，而无需通勤到治疗师办公室或坐在候诊室或寻找停车位。

If you'd like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month.

如果您想尝试 BetterHelp，请访问 betterhelp.com/huberman，第一个月可享受 10% 的折扣。

Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman.

再说一次，这是 betterhelp.com/huberman。

Now for my discussion with Dr. Craig Koniver.

现在我与 Craig Koniver 博士进行讨论。

Dr. Craig Koniver, welcome.

克雷格·科尼弗博士，欢迎。

Dr. Craig Koniver: Thank you, Andrew.

克雷格·科尼弗博士：谢谢你，安德鲁。

I appreciate the invitation to be here.

我很高兴能受邀来到这里。

Andrew: I'm thrilled that you're here.

安德鲁：你能来我很高兴。

We are going to launch ourselves into the space that is called peptides.

我们将把自己带入称为肽的空间。

It's an interesting space-

这是一个有趣的空间——

Craig: For sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: -because I think most people probably don't know what a peptide is.

安德鲁：-因为我认为大多数人可能不知道肽是什么。

They should feel no guilt or shame about that.

他们不应该为此感到内疚或羞耻。

I'm sure you'll tell us.

我相信你会告诉我们。

This area of medicine that people broadly refer to as peptides is picking up a lot of momentum, even though it's been around for a long time.

人们广泛称为肽的这一医学领域正在蓬勃发展，尽管它已经存在很长时间了。

I find it particularly interesting because there are many people using peptides for very specific purposes, but most people haven't really heard of the various peptides that are out there.

我发现它特别有趣，因为有很多人将肽用于非常特定的目的，但大多数人并没有真正听说过那里的各种肽。

If anything, we can be sure that in the years to come, peptides are going to be increasingly popular.

如果有的话，我们可以肯定，在未来的几年里，肽将越来越受欢迎。

Craig: Totally agree.

克雷格：完全同意。

Andrew: There's, of course, the incredibly popular peptide of GLP-1 agonists.

Andrew：当然，还有非常受欢迎的 GLP-1 激动剂肽。

Craig: For sure.

克雷格：当然。

Taking over.

接管。

Andrew: To drop into this and make sure everyone's on the same page, what is a peptide?

安德鲁：为了确保每个人都在同一页面上，什么是肽？

Craig: Just from a very elementary level, peptides are just chains of amino acids.

克雷格：从非常基本的层面来看，肽只是氨基酸链。

Amino acids, all naturally occurring molecules.

氨基酸，所有天然存在的分子。

We call it a peptide if it's 40 amino acids or less.

如果它的氨基酸含量为 40 个或更少，我们将其称为肽。

We call it a protein if it's 41 amino acids or more.

如果它含有 41 个或更多氨基酸，我们就将其称为蛋白质。

The body makes, I think, last I read, 300,000 peptides, so it's a massive number.

我认为，根据我上次读到的内容，人体会产生 300,000 种肽，所以这是一个巨大的数字。

We probably, therapeutically, are using close to 250 over the years, which is obviously tiny compared to that.

多年来，我们在治疗上可能使用了近 250 种药物，与此相比，这显然是微不足道的。

To your point, this is blossoming.

就你而言，这正在蓬勃发展。

We've been using peptides for about eight years, a long time, but still very early in our understanding of how best to use peptides and how clinically we're going to get the most out of them, so it's exciting.

我们使用肽已经有大约八年了，很长一段时间，但我们对如何最好地使用肽以及如何在临床上充分利用它们的理解还处于早期阶段，所以这令人兴奋。

Andrew: Maybe just to orient ourselves, we should talk about GLP-1 first.

Andrew：也许为了定位自己，我们应该先谈谈 GLP-1。

Not because it's necessarily the category of peptides that I think people would want to consider for themselves, but because most people have probably heard of Semaglutide and Mounjaro and things like that.

并不是因为它一定是我认为人们想要自己考虑的肽类别，而是因为大多数人可能听说过 Semaglutide 和 Mounjaro 之类的东西。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: How long ago was it that humans started injecting GLP-1 agonists in order to lose weight?

Andrew：人类多久前开始注射 GLP-1 激动剂来减肥？

Craig: I think the weight loss aspect has only been a couple of years.

克雷格：我认为减肥方面才出现了几年。

It's been tremendous how it's accelerated to literally becoming the number one prescribed in America.

它如何加速成为美国第一处方药，真是太棒了。

Semaglutide, Ozempic, was approved longer than that for type 2 diabetics, helping with glucose control and helping with glucose utilization.

Semaglutide、Ozempic 的批准时间比用于 2 型糖尿病患者的时间长，有助于血糖控制和葡萄糖利用。

What they found as a side effect was that these people were losing weight.

他们发现的副作用是这些人的体重正在减轻。

Then that word caught on.

然后这个词就流行起来了。

What's interesting, and I don't think most people understand, is most of the medicines prescribed, particularly in America, are prescribed off-label.

有趣的是，我认为大多数人并不理解，大多数处方药，尤其是在美国，都是在标签外处方的。

Meaning they've never, ever been approved for what they're used.

这意味着它们的用途从未获得过批准。

Andrew: Is that right?

安德鲁：是吗？

Craig: Yes, the vast majority are never approved.

克雷格：是的，绝大多数从未获得批准。

As a physician, I'm allowed to prescribe any drug for any reason I want, as long as it's been approved for something.

作为一名医生，我可以出于任何原因开出任何药物，只要该药物已被批准用于某些用途。

As long as we're safe.

只要我们安全。

We don't want to be cavalier about this and renegade and do all these things that are out of bounds, but that is the truth.

我们不想对此傲慢和叛逆，做所有这些越界的事情，但这就是事实。

Semaglutide is a great example being used for helping type 2 diabetics lower their blood sugar, and then it got to, "Well, now let's help diabetics lose weight, because diabetics struggle with weight, the insulin resistance." Then it became, "Well, even if you're not a diabetic, could you benefit from losing weight?" Heck yes.

索马鲁肽是一个很好的例子，它被用来帮助 2 型糖尿病患者降低血糖，然后它就开始说：“好吧，现在让我们帮助糖尿病患者减肥，因为糖尿病患者正在与体重和胰岛素抵抗作斗争。”然后它变成了，“好吧，即使你不是糖尿病患者，你能从减肥中受益吗？”哎呀，是的。

Look at the amount of obesity and people who are overweight and having trouble maintaining healthy weight.

查看肥胖人数以及超重且难以保持健康体重的人。

It's exorbitant in this country and certainly worldwide.

在这个国家，当然在全世界，这都是过高的。

Then it spread.

然后它就蔓延开来。

It did eventually get FDA approval specifically for weight loss, but at first, no, it's been just for type 2 diabetics to help with glucose utilization.

它最终确实获得了 FDA 的专门用于减肥的批准，但一开始并没有，它只是针对 2 型糖尿病患者来帮助葡萄糖利用。

We've been using primarily tirzepatide, which is like Semaglutide version 2.0, mostly for the past two years, have learned a tremendous amount, and my opinion's actually changed from working with people.

我们主要使用tirzepatide，就像Semaglutide 2.0版一样，主要是在过去的两年里，我们学到了很多东西，而且我的观点实际上从与人合作中改变了。

Andrew: What is your opinion?

安德鲁：你的意见是什么？

My understanding is that there's two camps on this, it seems.

我的理解是，在这个问题上似乎有两个阵营。

At least two camps.

至少有两个营地。

One camp seems really bullish on this.

一个阵营似乎非常看好这一点。

They seem very excited about this drug.

他们似乎对这种药物非常兴奋。

The other camp seems to point to the fact that one may be creating a drug dependency.

另一个阵营似乎指出了这样一个事实：一个人可能会产生药物依赖。

That it's very expensive.

那是非常昂贵的。

They point to the also potency of lifestyle factors like exercise and caloric restriction, eating mostly non-processed foods, et cetera, as a "better alternative." I'm not necessarily saying that.

他们指出，生活方式因素（例如锻炼和热量限制、主要吃非加工食品等）也具有效力，可以作为“更好的选择”。我不一定这么说。

I think they both have their place.

我认为他们都有自己的位置。

To me, it seems very contextual, but as a clinician, I'm curious what you think.

对我来说，这似乎很切合实际，但作为一名临床医生，我很好奇你的想法。

Craig: Yes, I agree.

克雷格：是的，我同意。

Both have their place.

两者都有自己的位置。

My philosophy is I want everyone to have access to things that are number one safe, that propel them to look, feel, and perform their best.

我的理念是，我希望每个人都能获得最安全的东西，从而推动他们看起来、感觉和表现出最好的状态。

If that means, if it was just about, if I can exercise my way out of this, eat my way out of this, meaning lose weight, change my body composition, why do we have an epidemic of so many people who struggle with that?

如果这意味着，如果这只是说，如果我可以通过锻炼、饮食来摆脱这种情况，也就是说减肥，改变我的身体成分，那么为什么我们会出现这么多人与这些问题作斗争的流行病呢？

Because it's really hard.

因为这真的很难。

We don't totally understand it.

我们并不完全理解它。

The processed food thing's a massive problem.

加工食品是一个大问题。

I know that's come to light recently with people pushing for us to take a look at food companies and the quality of our food, which is amazing.

我知道最近人们敦促我们检查食品公司和我们食品的质量，这令人惊叹。

If people aren't interested in doing better for themselves, and this may not make sense, but I think it does.

如果人们对为自己做得更好不感兴趣，这可能没有意义，但我认为确实如此。

The analogy I use is, I like to help people win the race first, which then helps them motivate to train for the next race.

我用的比喻是，我喜欢先帮助人们赢得比赛，然后帮助他们激励为下一场比赛进行训练。

This goes against the grain of conventional medicine, which is, if you want to train for the race, you have to run a certain number of miles.

这违背了传统医学的原则，即如果你想为比赛进行训练，你必须跑一定的英里数。

You have to sleep a certain way, you have to eat a certain way, you have to do all the things, struggle to get there, and losing weight is a struggle.

你必须以某种方式睡觉，你必须以某种方式吃饭，你必须做所有的事情，努力达到目标，减肥是一场斗争。

The way I look at it, if I can help people lose weight first, literally by using something like tirzepatide, Semaglutide, and I've seen this, they're now excited.

在我看来，如果我能首先帮助人们减肥，实际上是通过使用替西帕肽、索马鲁肽之类的东西，我已经看到了这一点，他们现在会很兴奋。

I met with a client yesterday here in Los Angeles, and she literally looked at me and said, "You've changed my life." She goes, "I am a super successful woman in my company, with my family, with my kids.

昨天我在洛杉矶会见了一位客户，她看着我说：“你改变了我的生活。”她说：“我在公司、家庭和孩子中都是一位超级成功的女性。

Everything's great, but now I love my life.

一切都很好，但现在我热爱我的生活。

My workouts are better, I look better, my clothes fit better.

我的锻炼效果更好，我看起来更好，我的衣服更合身。

I am super excited about waking up every morning." She is there.

每天早上醒来我都感到非常兴奋。”她就在那里。

That is what it's about.

这就是它的意义所在。

For people, if you can help them achieve their goal first, then they're going to be motivated.

对于人们来说，如果你能首先帮助他们实现目标，那么他们就会有动力。

The light bulb turns on, they're going to be like, "Wow, I want more of this." That's the aha moment that I love helping people with.

灯泡亮了，他们会说，“哇，我想要更多。”这就是我喜欢帮助别人的顿悟时刻。

At first, I was like, "Oh, we got to be really cautious with this." Same thinking, like, "I don't want people to lose too much weight.

起初，我想，“哦，我们对此必须非常谨慎。”同样的想法，比如，“我不希望人们减肥太多。

This is a problem.

这是一个问题。

Are they going to be dependent, unlike the notion that you have to take something the rest of your life?" I'm not saying it has to be the rest of their life, but when something works, and as far as I can tell, is very safe, I think it's worth discussing.

他们是否会变得依赖，不像你必须在余生中接受某些东西的观念？”我并不是说这必须是他们的余生，但是当某件事有效并且据我所知非常安全时，我认为这是值得讨论的。

I like people having those options at least.

我喜欢至少有这些选择的人。

Andrew: Yes, it sounds like, from the story you just told us, that it's not just about an aesthetic change that motivates people to lean into other aspects of their health and life when they lose some weight.

安德鲁：是的，从你刚才告诉我们的故事来看，这不仅仅是审美上的变化，它促使人们在减肥时关注健康和生活的其他方面。

Craig: Totally.

克雷格：完全可以。

Andrew: That it's also just that the sheer literal weight.

安德鲁：这也只是纯粹的字面重量。

Also, that adipose tissue, fat tissue, produces a lot of hormones that-

此外，脂肪组织会产生大量激素，这些激素-

Craig: It does.

克雷格：确实如此。

Andrew: -we know impact the brain and brain function, which is not to say that there aren't people out there with a lot of adipose tissues who aren't extremely bright and motivated, et cetera, but many people who are carrying excess body fat don't feel good.

安德鲁：-我们知道它会影响大脑和大脑功能，这并不是说没有大量脂肪组织的人不是非常聪明和积极性等等，但许多体内脂肪过多的人感觉不舒服。

They report brain fog, et cetera.

他们报告了脑雾等等。

I think now, thanks to Chris Palmer, and actually at Stanford, there's also a program in metabolic psychiatry, we're starting to see, or understand and appreciate, the link between adipose tissue and brain health, or lack of brain health in most cases.

我想现在，多亏了克里斯·帕尔默，实际上在斯坦福大学，还有一个代谢精神病学项目，我们开始看到、理解和欣赏脂肪组织与大脑健康之间的联系，或者在大多数情况下缺乏大脑健康。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: In the case of GLP-1, people have criticized it, saying that a fair percentage of the weight that's lost is lean body mass, muscle loss, but it seems to me that can be remedied pretty easily if people just do some resistance training.

Andrew：就 GLP-1 而言，人们批评了它，称所减掉的体重中有相当一部分是去脂体重和肌肉损失，但在我看来，如果人们只进行一些阻力训练，就可以很容易地补救。

Craig: I think part of that, yes, resistance training.

克雷格：我认为其中一部分是阻力训练。

The other thing I would say is from what we've seen is when people are using the conventional dosages, they're losing weight too quickly.

我要说的另一件事是，从我们所看到的情况来看，当人们使用传统剂量时，他们的体重减轻得太快了。

What we do is we get both Semaglutide, mostly tirzepatide, compounded, and that allows us to use basically micro-dosages and start very low in terms of dosage and go slowly with people.

我们所做的就是将索马鲁肽（主要是替西帕肽）复合起来，这使我们能够使用基本上微剂量的药物，并以非常低的剂量开始，并缓慢地用于人们。

What we found is, as long as people are losing two pounds or less a week, they're not losing the muscle mass.

我们发现，只要人们每周减掉两磅或更少，他们就不会失去肌肉质量。

We certainly encourage adequate protein intake, resistance training, but that micro-dosing has been a game changer, literally a game changer, because then people don't feel like-- I've seen it where when we started, people were losing 15 pounds in three weeks.

我们当然鼓励充足的蛋白质摄入和阻力训练，但微剂量已经改变了游戏规则，真正的游戏规则改变者，因为这样人们就不会感觉——我在我们开始的时候看到过，人们在三周内减掉了 15 磅。

Andrew: Goodness.

安德鲁：天哪。

Craig: Then they're excited, but then they're not because then they come off of it, and they just gain it right back, or they lose a lot of weight, and they lose that fat in their face, and they look like skeletons.

克雷格：然后他们会很兴奋，但后来他们就不兴奋了，因为他们摆脱了它，然后他们就又恢复了，或者他们减掉了很多体重，他们脸上的脂肪消失了，他们看起来像骷髅。

We've seen this called Ozempic face.

我们见过这种叫做“Ozempic”的脸。

We don't like the way that looks, and that fat takes a while to come back.

我们不喜欢它的样子，而且脂肪需要一段时间才能恢复。

If we just go slowly with this and we can really dial it in and nuance it, that has had a tremendous impact.

如果我们慢慢地做这件事，我们真的可以拨动它并细致入微，这会产生巨大的影响。

Now, beyond the weight loss, we're seeing cognitive benefits.

现在，除了减肥之外，我们还看到了认知方面的好处。

We're seeing inflammation benefits.

我们看到了炎症的好处。

A lot of people with autoimmune disease, who their inflammation markers are coming down, and that's the only thing we can think is working.

许多患有自身免疫性疾病的人，他们的炎症标志物都在下降，这是我们认为唯一有效的方法。

Andrew: Is that a direct effect of Ozempic on the immune system and pathways related to inflammation, or is it indirect through the loss of adipose tissue, body fat, which then lowers inflammation?

Andrew：这是 Ozempic 对免疫系统和炎症相关途径的直接影响，还是通过减少脂肪组织、身体脂肪来间接影响炎症？

Craig: Great question or I could say, is it the positive thoughts that come from looking at yourself in the mirror and feeling good, which transcends to you feeling better about yourself, and that feeds forward to the momentum that you put forth in the world.

克雷格：很好的问题，或者我可以说，是不是来自于照镜子并感觉良好的积极想法，它超越了你对自己的感觉更好，并促进了你在世界上展现的动力。

All of those things.

所有这些事情。

I think it's all of the above.

我认为以上都是。

I think that's going to be hard to dissect, but it's real.

我认为这很难剖析，但它是真实的。

I have a patient, she's 50.

我有一个病人，她50岁了。

She has Hashimoto's thyroiditis, meaning she attacks her thyroid.

她患有桥本甲状腺炎，这意味着她的甲状腺受到攻击。

She doesn't make enough thyroid hormones, so she takes thyroid hormone.

她无法产生足够的甲状腺激素，因此她服用甲状腺激素。

One of the challenges with that is they make a lot of thyroid antibodies, this antibody called thyroid peroxidase antibody.

挑战之一是它们会产生大量甲状腺抗体，这种抗体称为甲状腺过氧化物酶抗体。

When you have an elevated thyroid peroxidase antibody, you don't feel good.

当您的甲状腺过氧化物酶抗体升高时，您会感觉不舒服。

You feel inflamed, your joints hurt, you get rashes.

您感到发炎、关节疼痛、出现皮疹。

Life is just not easy.

生活并不容易。

It's a challenge to get that number down.

降低这个数字是一个挑战。

It's certainly a challenge for me.

这对我来说无疑是一个挑战。

We traditionally use probiotics, a lot of things to help bolster the immune system.

我们传统上使用益生菌，很多东西都有助于增强免疫系统。

Now we're starting to use the GLP-1s, and we're seeing those antibody levels come down.

现在我们开始使用 GLP-1，并且我们看到这些抗体水平下降了。

I don't have a great way of explaining it, but there's something going on that's very positive.

我没有很好的方式来解释它，但正在发生一些非常积极的事情。

Andrew: Very interesting.

安德鲁：非常有趣。

I suppose moving from most widely known, peptides are still fairly unknown to most people, even the concept, but that's why you're here.

我想，从最广为人知的角度来看，大多数人对肽仍然相当陌生，甚至连这个概念都不清楚，但这就是你来这里的原因。

You're changing that right now.

你现在正在改变这一点。

Moving from things like GLP-1 to what I would probably call the second most popular peptide, the one that we're hearing more and more about all the time, and that's BPC-157, Body Protection Compound-157, which, to my understanding, there are a lot of animal data, very few, if any, clinical studies on humans.

从 GLP-1 之类的东西转向我可能称之为第二受欢迎的肽，我们一直越来越多地听到它，那就是 BPC-157，身体保护化合物-157，据我了解，有很多动物数据，但很少（如果有的话）针对人类的临床研究。

Craig: Agreed.

克雷格：同意。

Andrew: A lot of people now taking BPC in various forms.

Andrew：现在很多人以各种形式服用 BPC。

What are some known uses for BPC?

BPC 有哪些已知用途？

Let's just say within your clinic.

我们只说在您的诊所内。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: Then we'll get around to the fact that BPC has, let's hope temporarily, been taken off market and what some of the alternatives are.

Andrew：然后我们将讨论 BPC 已经（希望是暂时的）退出市场的事实以及一些替代方案。

What is BPC?

什么是BPC？

What instances or people have you found it useful for?

您发现它对哪些情况或人有用？

Craig: So many.

克雷格：这么多。

I think with BPC, for me, the most utilized peptide that we've used.

我认为 BPC 对我来说是我们使用过的最常用的肽。

We'd like to use BPC almost with every patient.

我们希望对几乎每一位患者都使用 BPC。

It is very anti-inflammatory.

它具有很强的抗炎作用。

Just from a very general perspective most people walking around who are adults, they're stiff, they're sore as they get older.

从一个非常普遍的角度来看，大多数成年人都是成年人，随着年龄的增长，他们会变得僵硬、酸痛。

They work out.

他们锻炼身体。

We work with athletes of all levels.

我们与各个级别的运动员合作。

There's that element of inflammation.

有炎症的因素。

Maybe they have some chronic disease, diabetes, heart disease, autoimmune disease.

也许他们患有一些慢性疾病，糖尿病，心脏病，自身免疫性疾病。

Inflammation is paramount.

炎症是最重要的。

We understand that.

我们明白这一点。

BPC, I observe with so many patients, we're talking thousands upon thousands of patients, where their inflammation comes down so they feel better.

BPC，我观察到了很多患者，我们谈论的是成千上万的患者，他们的炎症减轻了，所以他们感觉好多了。

They're not as stiff, they're not as sore, their knee doesn't hurt as much.

他们没有那么僵硬，没有那么酸痛，膝盖也没有那么疼。

Their shoulder's improved.

他们的肩膀有所改善。

We've learned that we start with the dose based upon these, like you said, animal studies, which is conservative, make sure it's safe.

我们了解到，我们从基于这些的剂量开始，就像你说的，动物研究是保守的，确保它是安全的。

Then we've seen over time that we can get to higher and higher dosages and have even more of an impact.

随着时间的推移，我们发现我们可以使用越来越高的剂量，并产生更大的影响。

I think, for people understanding using BPC, we started with a dose of 500 micrograms a day.

我认为，对于了解使用 BPC 的人来说，我们从每天 500 微克的剂量开始。

We got up to 5,000 micrograms a day.

我们每天的摄入量高达 5,000 微克。

We'd like a protocol of five days on, two days off.

我们想要一个工作五天，休息两天的协议。

That's been very helpful for a variety of things from post-viral with the pandemic, had a lot of success with BPC, to, again, you name it.

这对很多事情都非常有帮助，从大流行后的病毒传播、在 BPC 方面取得的巨大成功，再到凡是你能想到的。

Honestly, almost everyone I could think of, particularly as people are engaging more fitness-related lives, they're working out more.

老实说，几乎我能想到的每个人，尤其是当人们越来越多地参与与健身相关的生活时，他们都在进行更多的锻炼。

I would argue that anyone who's working out on a regular basis, BPC is going to benefit.

我认为任何定期锻炼的人都会受益于 BPC。

It's going to help improve the inflammatory status, but also help with recovery.

它将有助于改善炎症状态，也有助于康复。

It doesn't seem to be one of these agents that's going to be detrimental.

这些代理中的任何一个似乎都不会造成损害。

We were talking earlier, Rob and I, for the starter, they found that people are working out hard taking antioxidants, that there seems to be a negative consequence to that because you don't allow the body to repair itself.

罗布和我早些时候讨论过，首先，他们发现人们正在努力锻炼，服用抗氧化剂，这似乎会产生负面后果，因为你不允许身体自我修复。

I don't think that's happening with BPC.

我认为 BPC 不会发生这种情况。

Andrew: That's interesting because my understanding is also that part of the specific and general adaptation of exercise is triggered by inflammation.

安德鲁：这很有趣，因为我的理解是，运动的特定和一般适应的一部分是由炎症引发的。

This is why, indeed, it is true that doing ice bath or really cold water immersion, cold shower seems fine, but cold water immersion in the four to eight hours after resistance training can limit some of the hypertrophy and strength gains from resistance training, because what you're inducing when you actually go into the gym that leads to the hypertrophy and strength training is an inflammation response that triggers the compensation or the hyper-compensation.

这就是为什么，事实上，进行冰浴或真正的冷水浸泡、冷水淋浴似乎不错，但在抗阻训练后四到八小时内浸泡冷水会限制抗阻训练带来的一些肥大和力量增益，因为当你真正进入健身房时，会引发导致肥大和力量训练的炎症反应，从而触发补偿或过度补偿。

It's interesting you're saying that BPC-- By the way, I must say this because then forgive the editorial, but that is not to say that cold plunges and cold immersion is bad.

有趣的是，你说的是 BPC——顺便说一句，我必须这么说，因为请原谅这篇社论，但这并不是说冷浸和冷浸不好。

It's just in the hours following resistance training, specifically for hypertrophy and strength training.

它就在阻力训练后的几个小时内，特别是针对肥大和力量训练。

If those are your goals, probably best to do it outside of that window.

如果这些是您的目标，那么最好在该窗口之外实现。

Other times, it has some tremendous benefits.

其他时候，它还有一些巨大的好处。

Be safe, but there.

确保安全，但就在那里。

Back to the topic at hand, forgive me.

回到正题，请见谅。

This can set off a complicated storm of sorts if I'm not ultra-clear about the details.

如果我不太清楚细节的话，这可能会引发一场复杂的风暴。

BPC-157 strongly anti-inflammatory.

BPC-157 具有很强的抗炎作用。

My understanding is it also may upregulate growth hormone receptors.

我的理解是它也可能上调生长激素受体。

Craig: It does.

克雷格：确实如此。

It works well if you're-- we'll get into taking a growth hormone-releasing peptide.

如果您愿意的话，效果很好——我们将服用生长激素释放肽。

It pairs very well with that because then you're working both sides of the equation.

它与此非常匹配，因为这样你就可以同时处理等式的两边。

Meaning if you're using a growth hormone-releasing peptide like Sermorelin or Ipamorelin, GHRP-6, whatever, you're helping your pituitary put out more growth hormone.

这意味着，如果您使用生长激素释放肽，如舍莫林或伊帕莫林、GHRP-6 等，您将帮助您的垂体释放更多的生长激素。

If you combine it with BPC, which upregulates the growth hormone receptor, you make the process of growth hormone binding more efficient.

如果将其与上调生长激素受体的 BPC 结合使用，可以使生长激素结合过程更加有效。

You get more out of it, then you can use less of the growth hormone-releasing peptide with the same result.

您可以从中获得更多，然后您可以使用更少的生长激素释放肽来获得相同的结果。

Andrew: Got it.

安德鲁：明白了。

BPC-157 comes in many different forms, or it used to when it was FDA-not-disallowed.

BPC-157 有多种不同的形式，或者在 FDA 未禁止的情况下曾经有过这种形式。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: I could imagine how the oral forms would allow for a just general anti-inflammatory response.

安德鲁：我可以想象口服形式如何能够产生一般的抗炎反应。

It's a gut peptide.

它是一种肠肽。

We don't have to worry about it being destroyed by the gut.

我们不必担心它会被肠道破坏。

Most peptides that go into the gut are broken down.

大多数进入肠道的肽都会被分解。

Craig: Correct.

克雷格：正确。

Andrew: This peptide, when it's naturally occurring, occurs in the gut.

安德鲁：这种肽在自然存在时存在于肠道中。

Craig: That's right.

克雷格：没错。

Andrew: It survives in the gut.

安德鲁：它在肠道中存活。

If somebody is taking BPC-157 orally through a capsule or tablet form, my guess is that has a general anti-inflammation response.

如果有人通过胶囊或片剂形式口服 BPC-157，我的猜测是它具有一般的抗炎反应。

Craig: I think it can.

克雷格：我认为可以。

What we've observed is more limited to the gut.

我们所观察到的更多地局限于肠道。

People with any sort of gastrointestinal issue, whether that's inflammatory bowel disease like Crohn's or ulcerative colitis, irritable bowel, you name it, leaky gut, I think oral BPC is more effective there.

患有任何胃肠道问题的人，无论是克罗恩病等炎症性肠病还是溃疡性结肠炎、肠易激、肠漏等，我认为口服 BPC 在那里更有效。

Andrew: Has it been shown to be effective for those conditions, or have you observed that clinically?

安德鲁：它是否已被证明对这些病症有效，或者您是否在临床上观察到了这一点？

Craig: I've certainly observed that clinically.

克雷格：我确实在临床上观察到了这一点。

Interestingly, I've observed a better clinical response when people inject it, even for gastrointestinal-related things.

有趣的是，我观察到人们注射它时有更好的临床反应，即使是与胃肠道相关的东西。

I think injecting.

我认为注射。

People injecting Sub-Q, which is right under the skin, we use the tiniest of needles, like an insulin needle, 30 or 31 gauge.

人们在皮下注射 Sub-Q 时，我们使用最细的针头，例如胰岛素针头，30 或 31 号。

We're talking super small.

我们说的是超级小。

I know a lot of people are like, "I'm never injecting."

我知道很多人都会说，“我从不注射。”

Andrew: Now this is less painful than a Texas mosquito bite.

安德鲁：现在这比德克萨斯州的蚊子叮咬要轻一些。

Craig: There you go.

克雷格：给你。

Super easy.

超级简单。

Once you do it once or twice, it's really easy.

一旦你做了一两次，这真的很容易。

We walk people how to do that.

我们引导人们如何做到这一点。

Interestingly, we started thinking, "Okay, if you've got something going on in your gut, you should take oral PPC because it's going to target it right then." I found if we're injecting, it actually works better than the oral.

有趣的是，我们开始思考，“好吧，如果你的肠道有问题，你应该服用口服 PPC，因为它会立即针对它。”我发现如果我们注射，它实际上比口服效果更好。

Then it came up, "Well, what if I've got an elbow injury?

然后就出现了，“好吧，如果我肘部受伤怎么办？

Should I inject it in my elbow?" We found, actually, don't.

我应该把它注射到我的肘部吗？”我们发现，实际上并非如此。

It's going to work systemically.

它将系统地发挥作用。

You can inject it in your abdomen or your rear end.

您可以将其注射到腹部或臀部。

You're still going to get benefit in your elbow, but now you're going to get benefit in all your joints, all over your body systemically.

您的肘部仍然会受益，但现在您的所有关节、全身系统都会受益。

Andrew: How do you think that's working?

安德鲁：你认为效果如何？

My understanding is BPC-157 can initiate fibroblast migration.

我的理解是BPC-157可以启动成纤维细胞迁移。

Some of the cells that make up the various connective tissues that when injured or sore, other things can make us injured or sore, of course, but when injured or sore that those need repair.

当然，构成各种结缔组织的一些细胞在受伤或酸痛时，其他东西也会使我们受伤或酸痛，但当受伤或酸痛时，这些细胞需要修复。

It always was perplexing to me why one could put BPC-157 in such a small volume under the skin, just a few centimeters off the belly button, and it would somehow seek out the injury site in an elbow or an Achilles.

我一直很困惑为什么人们可以将 BPC-157 放入皮下如此小的体积中，距离肚脐仅几厘米，并且它会以某种方式找到肘部或跟腱的损伤部位。

There are all these wild anecdotal tales of lore of, let's just say, there was this Olympic athlete, not this last Olympics, but the previous summer Olympics, that had a torn Achilles who came back a few weeks later and medaled, took podium, that is, and people were talking about BPC-157.

这里有很多疯狂的轶事故事，我们只是说，有一位奥运会运动员，不是最后一届奥运会，而是上一届夏季奥运会，他的跟腱撕裂，几周后回来并获得奖牌，登上领奖台，也就是说，人们正在谈论 BPC-157。

Who knows?

谁知道？

That's just chatter and fog, as they say.

正如他们所说，那只是喋喋不休和迷雾。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: Wild, the idea that you could just inject something systemically, put into the systemic circulation, into the bloodstream, and it would ferret out the location in which the injury took place and initiate a recovery response.

安德鲁：疯狂，这个想法是，你可以全身注射一些东西，进入体循环，进入血液，它会找出受伤发生的位置并启动恢复反应。

Craig: It's interesting.

克雷格：这很有趣。

Not to get off topic, but we've seen it with stem cells.

不想偏离主题，但我们已经在干细胞中看到了这一点。

They've taken stem cells, they've tagged them radiographically so you can see them.

他们提取了干细胞，并用放射线标记了它们，这样你就可以看到它们。

The study I read, which I can find for you, someone had a broken wrist, and they gave them intravenous stem cells.

我读过的研究，我可以为你找到，有人的手腕骨折了，他们给他们静脉注射干细胞。

24 hours later, when they visualized radiographically, those stem cells had aggregated at the site of the fracture.

24小时后，当他们通过放射线观察时，这些干细胞已经聚集在骨折部位。

There's a lot about our bodies obviously we don't know.

显然，我们的身体有很多我们不知道的事情。

Andrew: Sure.

安德鲁：当然。

Craig: There's an innate human-like design and intelligence, which I believe in.

克雷格：我相信有一种与生俱来的类人设计和智慧。

I see it because we've done a lot of IV therapy over the years, and it's interesting when you give something intravenously, you're getting in the bloodstream, and you can feel some of these different compounds.

我之所以看到这一点，是因为多年来我们进行了大量的静脉注射治疗，当您通过静脉注射某些东西时，您会进入血液，并且您可以感觉到其中一些不同的化合物，这很有趣。

We're just talking about vitamins working within seconds, and it shows you how quickly things circulate.

我们只是谈论维生素在几秒钟内发挥作用，它向您展示了事物循环的速度。

People don't understand how quickly we move our circulation.

人们不明白我们的循环速度有多快。

It's massively fast.

它的速度非常快。

Andrew: If one has ever gone into the hospital for a surgery and got a cold saline infusion, you realize how quickly it hits your toes.

安德鲁：如果一个人曾经去医院接受过手术并接受了冷盐水输液，你就会意识到它很快就会击中你的脚趾。

They're putting it into your elbow.

他们把它放进你的肘部。

Craig: It's almost instantaneous.

克雷格：这几乎是瞬间的。

Andrew: Yes, within a few seconds.

安德鲁：是的，几秒钟之内。

It also makes one appreciate how we're all generally a little bit dehydrated.

这也让人意识到我们通常都有点脱水。

When you start getting a real proper saline infusion, all of a sudden you feel yourself come to life in a way that, "Oh, this is what it feels like to have just the right amount of salt in my bloodstream."

当你开始接受真正适当的盐水输注时，突然间你会感觉自己充满了活力，“哦，这就是我的血液中含有适量盐的感觉。”

Craig: Exactly.

克雷格：没错。

Going back to BPC, where I think it shines, is in these ligaments and tendons.

回到 BPC，我认为它的亮点在于这些韧带和肌腱。

I think this is where most of these injuries happen, is where muscle is connecting to the bone.

我认为这是大多数伤害发生的地方，是肌肉与骨骼连接的地方。

People grow their muscle, but we don't stretch the tendons and ligaments well, and that's where we get pull, sometimes strain, and sprain, and tearing.

人们生长肌肉，但我们没有很好地伸展肌腱和韧带，这就是我们受到拉扯、有时拉伤、扭伤和撕裂的地方。

I think that's where BPC shines.

我认为这就是 BPC 的闪光点。

That's certainly where it's been studied in animal studies.

这当然是动物研究中对其进行研究的地方。

I know that because we can inject it directly into tendons, which is unlike steroids.

我知道这一点，因为我们可以将它直接注射到肌腱中，这与类固醇不同。

We would never inject steroids into a tendon.

我们永远不会将类固醇注射到肌腱中。

You damage the tendon.

你损伤了肌腱。

BPC, we mix with things like PRP, PRF, which is platelet-rich fiber, and a little bit different than PRP, and you'll get healing within days.

BPC，我们与 PRP、PRF（富含血小板的纤维）混合，与 PRP 略有不同，几天之内您就会痊愈。

It's awesome.

太棒了。

Andrew: Wild.

安德鲁：狂野。

Craig: It's super safe, and it's amazing for people.

克雷格：它超级安全，对人们来说真是太棒了。

Andrew: BPC is definitely shorthand for BPC-157.

Andrew：BPC 绝对是 BPC-157 的简写。

That is certainly in widespread use.

这肯定被广泛使用。

I have been concerned just personally about gray market sources that contain contaminants and the fact that many people are obtaining BPC-157 not from a physician, not from a compounded pharmacy, but just "on the internet."

我个人一直担心含有污染物的灰色市场来源，以及许多人不是从医生、不是从复合药房，而是只是“在互联网上”获得 BPC-157 的事实。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: You're a physician.

安德鲁：你是一名医生。

I'm guessing that until the recent ban by the FDA, you were able to prescribe clean BPC as it were.

我猜想，直到 FDA 最近颁布禁令之前，您都可以开出干净的 BPC。

What's the story with BPC now?

BPC现在怎么样了？

Maybe we could talk about gray market--

也许我们可以谈谈灰色市场——

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

I think it's a great question.

我认为这是一个很好的问题。

Andrew: -versus prescribed, and made at a compounding pharmacy versus a pharmaceutical company pharmaceutical.

安德鲁：-与处方药和在复方药房生产的药品相比，在制药公司生产的药品。

Then, of course, there's black market, but let's just leave that out.

当然，还有黑市，但我们还是把它排除在外吧。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: There are people that are going to tell you, "Hey, this is BPC," and sell it to you.

Andrew：有人会告诉你，“嘿，这是 BPC”，然后把它卖给你。

That's obviously bad and dangerous.

这显然是糟糕且危险的。

Craig: We see that with the anabolic steroids.

克雷格：我们通过合成代谢类固醇看到了这一点。

Anabolic steroids are in the black market.

合成代谢类固醇在黑市上有售。

There's one anabolic steroid, which is nandrolone, which is Deca, which can be officially prescribed.

有一种合成代谢类固醇，那就是诺龙，也就是德卡，可以正式开处方。

You can combine it with testosterone, all in the up and up, totally above table.

你可以将它与睾酮结合起来，一切都在向上和向上，完全高于表格。

The rest things, like trenbolone, others, you can't get them from a physician.

其余的东西，比如群勃龙等，你无法从医生那里得到。

In fact, very hard to get them from a reputable website in the United States.

事实上，很难从美国的信誉良好的网站上获得它们。

Andrew: As long as we're here, my understanding is Deca-Durabolin and testosterone cypionate can be prescribed or testosterone enanthate, things like that, by physicians.

Andrew：只要我们在这里，我的理解是医生可以开 Deca-Durabolin 和环丙酸睾酮或庚酸睾酮之类的处方。

That's because it's been FDA-approved for the treatment of various things, hypergonadal syndrome, testosterone replacement therapy in both men and women, et cetera.

这是因为它已获得 FDA 批准用于治疗各种疾病，如性腺机能亢进综合征、男性和女性的睾酮替代疗法等。

Those categories of testosterone-like compounds, cypionate, enanthate, et cetera, and Deca-Durabolin, which is basically like-- Is it similar to DHT?

这些类别的睾酮样化合物，环丙酸、庚酸等，以及 Deca-Durabolin，基本上就像——它与 DHT 相似吗？

Craig: A little bit, yes.

克雷格：有一点，是的。

The generic name is nandrolone.

通用名称是诺龙。

It has the flavor of helping with joints.

它有帮助关节的味道。

I think it works synergistically with things like testosterone, whether it's testosterone cypionate or enanthate.

我认为它与睾酮等物质具有协同作用，无论是环丙酸睾酮还是庚酸睾酮。

I like it particularly for people who've been on testosterone, men who've been on testosterone replacement for a long time, which is many men.

我特别喜欢那些一直在服用睾酮的人，长期服用睾酮替代品的男性，其中很多是男性。

They tend to get less out of testosterone.

他们从睾丸激素中获取的往往较少。

It becomes less potent like anything.

它像任何东西一样变得不那么有效。

If you use something for a long time, you're going to get less out of it over time.

如果你长期使用某样东西，随着时间的推移，你从它身上得到的东西就会越来越少。

Anything you expose yourself to continually doesn't work as well.

任何你不断接触的东西都不会起作用。

To make this really real, I had a patient who was in the Marines and served at Secret Service for several White Houses, and he had a lot of osteoporosis, osteopenia, and bone loss.

为了让这一切变得真实，我有一个病人，他曾在海军陆战队服役，并在几个白宫的特勤局服役，他患有严重的骨质疏松症、骨质减少和骨质流失。

This is where I learned about using something like nandrolone because we combine nandrolone with testosterone.

这是我学习使用诺龙之类的东西的地方，因为我们将诺龙与睾酮结合起来。

It changed his life.

这改变了他的生活。

This guy is in his 80s, who has had to use a cane, who came back to life, who started becoming super mobile and working out again.

这个人已经 80 多岁了，不得不拄着拐杖，后来又恢复了活力，开始变得超级灵活，并再次开始锻炼。

Synergistically, I think it works really well, not to get too far off topic.

综合起来，我认为它的效果非常好，不会偏离主题太远。

Andrew: No, it's interesting.

安德鲁：不，这很有趣。

I think another brief editorial for me, if I may, you mentioned this patient was in their 80s.

如果可以的话，我想为我写另一篇简短的社论，您提到这位患者已经 80 多岁了。

I think nowadays, unfortunately, a lot of younger males in particular, guys in their, gosh, even teens, but 20s and 30s, even early 40s, think that they need to look to synthetic testosterone in order to look a certain way, perform a certain way in the gym, libido, et cetera.

我认为，不幸的是，现在有很多年轻男性，尤其是十几岁的男性，天哪，甚至是十几岁的男性，但是20多岁和30多岁，甚至40岁出头的男性，认为他们需要依靠合成睾酮才能看起来某种方式，在健身房中表现出某种方式，性欲等等。

I'll go on record again and again and again saying that it's absolutely not necessary for most people of those ages, provided that they are taking good care to sleep well, eat well, take care.

我会一次又一次地郑重地说，对于这个年龄段的大多数人来说，这是绝对没有必要的，只要他们好好睡好、吃好、照顾好。

I realize that there are a growing number of use cases where people, for whatever reason, aren't able to recover from exercise.

我意识到，在越来越多的用例中，人们无论出于何种原因都无法从锻炼中恢复。

They're struggling.

他们正在挣扎。

This is a little bit like the Ozempic conversation, where there are things that can help move the needle in the right direction, pun intended.

这有点像 Ozempic 对话，其中有一些东西可以帮助我们朝着正确的方向前进，这是双关语。

Here with synthetic testosterone and Deca, there's a real concern about loss of fertility.

在这里，使用合成睾酮和代卡，人们真正担心生育能力的丧失。

Craig: Totally.

克雷格：完全可以。

I think it brings up a larger point, which is, and obviously, I'm biased, but I think it's super helpful for people to have a physician help them in this course.

我认为这提出了一个更重要的观点，很明显，我有偏见，但我认为让医生在这门课程中帮助他们对人们来说是非常有帮助的。

Particularly with testosterone.

尤其是睾丸激素。

It is just known that people get it from their trainers, their bros from the gym, who are saying, "Oh, you got to use this." I have so many patients who started using testosterone in their late teens, early 20s.

众所周知，人们从他们的教练、健身房的兄弟那里得到它，他们说，“哦，你必须使用这个。”我有很多患者在十几岁、二十岁出头就开始使用睾酮。

Andrew: Goodness.

安德鲁：天哪。

Not goodness, meaning badness.

不是善，就是恶的意思。

That does not seem like a good idea.

这似乎不是一个好主意。

Craig: It's still very common.

克雷格：这仍然很常见。

Andrew: Goodness gracious.

安德鲁：天哪。

Craig: Still very common.

克雷格：仍然很常见。

One in particular, this is probably 10 years ago, came to see me.

特别有一位，这大概是10年前，来看我的。

He's 25.

他25岁了。

He got married.

他结婚了。

To your point, he said, "I'm ready to have kids.

对于你的观点，他说：“我已经准备好要孩子了。

I have zero sperm left." That's a real thing.

我的精子数量为零。”这是真实的事情。

He had been using, and I would say abusing, both testosterone and growth hormone for years.

多年来，他一直在使用，我想说的是滥用睾酮和生长激素。

Now, what he told me was, and I get it, he was Superman.

现在，他告诉我的是，我明白了，他是超人。

He could wake up, do a hard workout, crush it, wake up the next morning, was not sore, crush it again, and just kept going, and kept going.

他可以醒来，进行艰苦的锻炼，压垮它，第二天早上醒来，不再酸痛，再次压垮它，然后继续前进，继续前进。

He was super fit, super happy in that regard, in how he looked, how he felt, how he performed.

他非常健康，在这方面他非常快乐，无论是他的外表、他的感觉还是他的表现。

Then he got to a point where he was a little bit wiser, mature, and he was like, "Oh, my goodness.

然后他变得更聪明、更成熟了，他说：“哦，天哪。

Now there's a repercussion for this." I've seen that time and time again.

现在这件事产生了影响。”我已经一次又一次地看到这种情况。

The repercussion is big.

影响很大。

You're not making any sperm, or the sperm quality is super poor.

你没有产生任何精子，或者精子质量非常差。

Now, what do you do?

现在，你做什么？

Now you got to come off the testosterone.

现在你必须停止使用睾酮。

You got to rebuild your system, which we can do.

你必须重建你的系统，我们可以做到。

We can use things like clomiphene and clomiphene hCG, lots of different agents to help in that regard, even certain peptides.

我们可以使用克罗米芬和克罗米芬 hCG 等许多不同的药物来帮助解决这一问题，甚至可以使用某些肽。

I think it brings up a large point, even getting into peptides, which is having a physician who's knowledgeable, to me, is super helpful.

我认为这提出了一个重要的观点，即使是进入肽领域，对我来说，拥有一位知识渊博的医生也是非常有帮助的。

The challenge for people is they don't know where to get the right information, and they're getting it from websites, and they're getting it from people saying, "Oh, just try this peptide." I've had lots of people talking about the websites or whatever, not to name any names, who have had anaphylactic reactions to research-type peptides, which are not for human consumption.

人们面临的挑战是他们不知道从哪里获得正确的信息，他们从网站上获得信息，并且从人们那里获得信息，“哦，试试这个肽。”我有很多人在谈论网站或其他什么，不点名，他们对研究型肽有过敏反应，这些肽不适合人类食用。

I'm not saying that there's bad companies or whatever.

我并不是说有不好的公司或其他什么。

You just got to be careful.

你一定要小心。

You got to be selective, at least.

至少你必须有选择性。

Andrew: Right.

安德鲁：对。

What brought us onto the conversation about testosterone was this black-market issue.

黑市问题让我们开始谈论睾酮。

There's also what I would call this dark gray market issue, which is that there are a number of companies that will sell.

还有一个我称之为深灰色市场的问题，即有许多公司将出售。

all sorts of things, but peptides in particular, and listed on their website, it'll say, "Not for human or animal consumption, for research purposes only."

各种各样的东西，特别是肽，并在他们的网站上列出，它会说，“不适合人类或动物消费，仅供研究目的。”

Craig: Correct.

克雷格：正确。

Right.

正确的。

Andrew: One of the major issues is that the potency and cleanliness, so to speak, purity of those compounds is not established.

安德鲁：主要问题之一是这些化合物的效力和清洁度（可以说是纯度）尚未确定。

Many of them have LPS, lipopolysaccharide, in them, which is inflammatory.

其中许多含有脂多糖，脂多糖，具有炎症作用。

Earlier, before we started recording, you mentioned that you have heard of or interacted with not your patients, but people who have come to you saying that they had really serious, life-threatening-

早些时候，在我们开始录音之前，你提到你听说过或与你互动的不是你的病人，而是那些来找你说他们患有非常严重的、危及生命的人——

Craig: For sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: -consequences for using these black market, certainly, but dark gray market peptides.

安德鲁：-使用这些黑市的后果，当然，但深灰色市场的肽。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

To tell the story further, is back in October of 2023, the FDA put many peptides, BPC, and we can name them out, on what's called a Category 2 list, meaning they are no longer allowed to be compounded.

进一步讲故事，早在 2023 年 10 月，FDA 将许多肽、BPC，我们可以将它们列在所谓的 2 类列表中，这意味着它们不再被允许进行复合。

Now, that excludes then research companies who are not under the purview of the FDA, but these compounding pharmacies, it's been a huge blow because they've been told they cannot use these agents.

现在，这排除了当时不属于 FDA 管辖范围的研究公司，但这些复合药房，这是一个巨大的打击，因为他们被告知不能使用这些药物。

Andrew: The compounding pharmacies are distinct from these other black and dark gray sources in that they actually can establish purity.

安德鲁：复合药房与其他黑色和深灰色来源的不同之处在于它们实际上可以确定纯度。

They are designed to be injected into humans.

它们被设计用于注射到人体中。

Craig: They have a totally different standard.

克雷格：他们有完全不同的标准。

I think it's confusing for people when they hear compounding pharmacy.

我认为当人们听到复方药剂时，他们会感到困惑。

They thought, "Fringe." They're not fringe.

他们想，“边缘”。他们不是边缘人。

They're FDA-regulated.

它们受 FDA 监管。

They're Board of Pharmacy-regulated in every state.

它们在每个州都受到药房委员会的监管。

They are monitored.

他们受到监视。

They are inspected all the time.

他们一直受到检查。

I've worked with compounding pharmacies my whole career, which is going on close to 25 years now.

我的整个职业生涯都在配药房工作，至今已有近 25 年了。

Just like anything, there's some amazing compounding pharmacies and there's some not-so-amazing compounding pharmacies which cut corners.

就像任何事情一样，有一些令人惊叹的复方药房，也有一些不那么令人惊叹的偷工减料的复方药房。

The ones we work with don't cut any corners, and I know that because they're inspected all the time.

与我们合作的人不会偷工减料，我知道这一点，因为他们一直受到检查。

It's a big deal to them.

这对他们来说是一件大事。

They want to do it right with purity, with processing, and making sure that anything they make, especially a sterile compound, which is going to be anything injected, eye drops, things you inject in yourself, whether it's IV, sub-Q, or intramuscular, they're considered sterile.

他们希望在纯度和加工上做到正确，并确保他们制造的任何东西，尤其是无菌化合物，即任何注射剂、滴眼剂、你自己注射的东西，无论是静脉注射、亚Q注射还是肌肉注射，都被认为是无菌的。

They have to then be tested by an outside lab to make sure of purity, make sure that there's no endotoxins, things like that.

然后必须由外部实验室对它们进行测试，以确保纯度，确保不含内毒素等。

It's highly regulated, and it's a big deal for them.

它受到严格监管，这对他们来说很重要。

It's a big deal for the physicians who prescribe with them, which I appreciate because the advantage of a compounding pharmacy is, we can tweak the dosage.

对于与他们一起开处方的医生来说，这是一件大事，我很欣赏这一点，因为复方药房的优势在于，我们可以调整剂量。

We don't have to use a standard set dosage.

我们不必使用标准设定剂量。

We can combine things synergistically to get one plus one doesn't equal two now.

我们现在可以将事物协同组合，得到一加一不等于二的结果。

It equals four.

它等于四。

That, to me, is a huge advantage.

对我来说，这是一个巨大的优势。

Just like we were talking about the GLP-1, Semaglutide, and tirzepatide, we get those compounded so that we have a-- the compounding pharmacy we're using now, we're making a unique combination of tirzepatide and Sermorelin, which will address some of this muscle loss that people are getting.

就像我们谈论 GLP-1、索马鲁肽和替泽帕肽一样，我们将它们混合在一起，这样我们就拥有了我们现在使用的复合药房，我们正在制作替泽帕肽和舍莫林的独特组合，这将解决人们正在经历的一些肌肉损失问题。

We can combine them.

我们可以将它们结合起来。

Andrew: Sermorelin to stimulate growth hormone release, offset some of the muscle loss from tirzepatide.

安德鲁：舍莫瑞林可以刺激生长激素的释放，抵消替泽帕肽造成的一些肌肉损失。

Craig: Exactly.

克雷格：没错。

Yes.

是的。

Andrew: Yes.

安德鲁：是的。

Craig: You can do things like that with a compounding pharmacy.

克雷格：你可以通过复方药房做类似的事情。

Again, just to make sure people understand, compounding pharmacies are highly regulated, highly regulated.

再次强调，为了确保人们理解，复方药房受到严格监管。

Again, there's always going to be bad apples, but physicians who know how to work with compounding pharmacies, I think, provide access to things that these conventional both pharmaceuticals and conventional pharmacies can't.

再说一次，总会有坏苹果，但我认为，知道如何与复方药房合作的医生可以提供这些传统药品和传统药房无法获得的东西。

Andrew: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.

Andrew：我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。

AG1 is a vitamin-mineral probiotic drink that also includes prebiotics and adaptogens.

AG1 是一种维生素矿物质益生菌饮料，还包含益生元和适应原。

AG1 is designed to cover all of your foundational nutritional needs, and it tastes great.

AG1 旨在满足您所有的基本营养需求，而且味道极佳。

Now, I've been drinking AG1 since 2012.

现在，我从 2012 年起就开始喝 AG1。

I started doing that at a time when my budget for supplements was really limited.

当我的补充剂预算非常有限时，我就开始这样做了。

In fact, I only had enough money back then to purchase one supplement, and I'm so glad that I made that supplement, AG1.

事实上，当时我的钱只够购买一种补充剂，我很高兴我制作了这款补充剂，AG1。

The reason for that is even though I strive to eat most of my foods from whole foods and minimally processed foods, it's very difficult for me to get enough fruits, vegetables, vitamins and minerals, micronutrients, and adaptogens from food alone.

原因是，尽管我努力吃天然食品和最低限度加工食品中的大部分食物，但我很难仅从食物中获取足够的水果、蔬菜、维生素和矿物质、微量营养素和适应原。

I need to do that in order to ensure that I have enough energy throughout the day, I sleep well at night, and keep my immune system strong.

我需要这样做，以确保我全天有足够的能量，晚上睡得好，并保持我的免疫系统强大。

When I take AG1 daily, I find that all aspects of my health, my physical health, my mental health, and my performance, both cognitive and physical, are better.

当我每天服用 AG1 时，我发现我的健康各方面，我的身体健康，我的心理健康，以及我的认知和身体表现都更好了。

I know that because I've had lapses when I didn't take AG1, and I certainly felt the difference.

我知道这一点，因为我在不参加 AG1 的时候也曾犯过错误，而且我确实感受到了其中的不同。

I also notice, and this makes perfect sense given the relationship between the gut microbiome and the brain, that when I regularly take AG1, which for me means a serving in the morning or mid-morning and again later in the afternoon or evening, that I have more mental clarity and more mental energy.

我还注意到，考虑到肠道微生物组和大脑之间的关系，这是完全合理的，当我定期服用 AG1（对我来说意味着早上或上午服用一次，下午或晚上再次服用）时，我的思维更加清晰，精力更加充沛。

If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.

如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。

Right now, they're giving away five free travel packs and a year's supply of vitamin D3K2.

目前，他们正在赠送五个免费旅行包和一年的维生素 D3K2。

Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman to claim that special offer.

再次强调，您可以通过 Drinkag1.com/huberman 领取特别优惠。

Is it fair to say that if one is interested in exploring the use of peptides for what you refer to as performance medicine, mental, physical health, and performance falls underneath that, to essentially only put peptides into their body, maybe even on their body surface, that they're obtaining from a physician who's obtained the peptides from a compounding pharmacy.

公平地说，如果一个人有兴趣探索肽在你所说的性能医学、心理、身体健康和性​​能方面的用途，那么基本上只将肽放入他们的体内，甚至可能在他们的身体表面，他们是从从复合药房获得肽的医生那里获得的。

Craig: Yes, and who's developing a relationship?

克雷格：是的，谁在发展关系？

For any peptide that we use, we meet with the patient.

对于我们使用的任何肽，我们都会与患者会面。

We make sure they're a good fit.

我们确保它们非常合适。

We make sure that there's no contraindications.

我们确保没有禁忌症。

We also can recommend and specifically dial it up or down, whatever it is.

我们还可以推荐并专门调高或调低它，无论它是什么。

Come up with, "This is what we think you should use based upon your life experience, the medicines you're taking or not taking, the conditions you're treating or not treating." I think that's really important.

提出，“这是我们认为您应该根据您的生活经历、您正在服用或不服用的药物、您正在治疗或不治疗的病症而使用的药物。”我认为这非常重要。

Again, I'm biased, being a physician.

再说一遍，作为一名医生，我有偏见。

My whole goal is to get to know patients.

我的全部目标是了解患者。

That's why I'm here is to walk that walk and help people in that regard.

这就是我来这里的原因，就是要走这条路，并在这方面帮助人们。

If someone's out there on the internet doing it themselves, they're walking in on their own.

如果有人在互联网上自己做这件事，那么他们就是自己走进来的。

Not to make it like everything bad is going to happen, but when you have the help of someone who has experience, that goes a long way, I think, particularly with something like this.

并不是说一切不好的事情都会发生，但我认为，当你得到有经验的人的帮助时，这会大有帮助，尤其是像这样的事情。

Andrew: I agree.

安德鲁：我同意。

It worries me very much that people are buying BPC from dark gray market or black market sources.

我非常担心人们从深灰色市场或黑市来源购买 BPC。

Anything that says on it, "Not for animal or human use, for research purposes only," you can pretty much guarantee the endotoxin, that lipopolysaccharide, at least has not been removed.

上面写着“不可用于动物或人类，仅供研究目的”的任何内容，您几乎可以保证内毒素，即脂多糖，至少没有被去除。

That can be really problematic, especially since my understanding is that it can be cumulative over time.

这可能确实是个问题，特别是因为我的理解是它可以随着时间的推移而累积。

It's not that one injection causes somebody to go into anaphylactic shock.

并不是一次注射就会导致某人出现过敏性休克。

It's that some of this LPS can build up an inflammatory response over time.

随着时间的推移，一些脂多糖会产生炎症反应。

Then you don't know where the tipping point is, and then somebody can have a really terrible reaction.

然后你不知道临界点在哪里，然后有人可能会做出非常可怕的反应。

Craig: Then, taking a step further, getting away from just peptides, but I remember this was, I don't know, 15 years ago, someone was taking advice from a very famous doctor on TV about taking an oral compound to lose weight.

克雷格：然后，更进一步，远离肽，但我记得这是，我不知道，15年前，有人在电视上听取了一位非常著名的医生关于服用口服化合物减肥的建议。

They called me up and they said, "Oh, I'm having terrible headaches, terrible headaches for days." They came in.

他们打电话给我说：“哦，我头疼得很厉害，连续好几天都头痛。”他们进来了。

Their blood pressure was through the roof.

他们的血压飙升。

I don't remember the specific numbers, but let's just say 220 over 140, and normally it's 120 over 80.

具体数字不记得了，就说220比140吧，一般是120比80。

"Well, did you take anything differently?" "Yes.

“那么，你有什么不同的看法吗？” “是的。

This doctor recommended I take this weight loss compound."

这位医生建议我服用这种减肥化合物。”

The problem is people have access to all this information, but if they're not under the guidance of a doctor to help clean up the mess, and we clean up the mess, and not that there's always mess, but this is what we enjoy doing.

问题是人们可以获得所有这些信息，但如果他们没有在医生的指导下帮助清理混乱，而我们清理混乱，并不是说总是有混乱，但这就是我们喜欢做的事情。

As a physician, we've seen the darkest of dark.

作为一名医生，我们见过最黑暗的黑暗。

We're able to help people when things don't go perfectly planned.

当事情没有按计划进行时，我们能够帮助人们。

I think that's a big deal, particularly when there's lots of these tools and they're exciting tools and they're great tools.

我认为这是一件大事，特别是当有很多这样的工具并且它们是令人兴奋的工具并且它们是很棒的工具时。

Fortunate for me, I've been in this space longer than most that I've just a large repertoire of experience of observing people and working with people, and seeing, "We've got to tweak this.

对我来说幸运的是，我在这个领域工作的时间比大多数人都长，我拥有大量观察人们和与人们合作的经验，并且看到，“我们必须对此进行调整。

We've got to nuance this," or sometimes, "We don't ever want to use this again.

我们必须对此进行细致入微，”或者有时，“我们不想再使用它。

This is not for most people."

这不适合大多数人。”

Andrew: Given that BPC-157 has been effectively removed from the legitimate market, what are people's alternatives, again working with the caveat that people should work with a physician?

Andrew：鉴于 BPC-157 已被有效地从合法市场中移除，人们有什么选择，再次警告人们应该与医生合作？

Where can physicians get something similar enough to BPC-157?

医生从哪里可以获得与 BPC-157 足够相似的药物？

Craig: There's a new compound, newer, a peptide called the short for PDA, Pentadeca Arginate.

克雷格：有一种新的化合物，更新的，一种肽，称为 PDA 的缩写，Pentadeca Arginate。

It's basically the same molecular structure as BPC, except they've swapped out an acetate for arginate.

它的分子结构与 BPC 基本相同，只是用精氨酸代替了乙酸盐。

Andrew: One amino acid-

安德鲁：一种氨基酸——

Craig: Correct.

克雷格：正确。

Andrew: -substitution.

安德鲁：-换人。

Craig: One amino acid substitution.

克雷格：一种氨基酸取代。

We're using that and having really good results.

我们正在使用它并取得了非常好的结果。

Certainly, it's early in the game of using PDA, but it seems very close to BPC in the clinical responses we're getting from our patients who are reporting back decrease in inflammation, all these wonderful things that we used to see with BPC.

当然，现在还处于使用 PDA 的早期阶段，但从我们从患者那里得到的临床反应来看，它似乎与 BPC 非常接近，患者报告炎症减少，所有这些我们过去在 BPC 上看到的美妙的事情。

I think I surmise that this is how it's going to be with all of these peptides, because again, peptides are just chains of amino acids.

我想我推测所有这些肽都会如此，因为肽只是氨基酸链。

Certainly, a lot of people smarter than me trying to figure out how do we then create other types of amino acid combinations, i.e., peptides that do similar actions to BPC, to thymosin alpha, to Ipamorelin, to TB-500, on and on and on.

当然，很多比我聪明的人试图弄清楚我们如何创建其他类型的氨基酸组合，即具有与 BPC、胸腺素 α、伊帕瑞林、TB-500 类似作用的肽，等等。

I'm hopeful in that regard.

我对此充满希望。

Also, some of my patients work at the very highest level of the US government.

此外，我的一些患者在美国政府最高层工作。

They are well aware of this and who have assured me they're going to look at this, that this is serious because they've been using peptides and they're concerned that, oh my goodness, the FDA came in and changed the game.

他们很清楚这一点，并向我保证他们会关注这个问题，这很严重，因为他们一直在使用肽，他们担心，天哪，FDA 介入并改变了游戏规则。

It's been a huge setback for all of us.

这对我们所有人来说都是一个巨大的挫折。

Andrew: I definitely want to circle back as to what the motivation was by the FDA for doing that at some point.

Andrew：我确实想回顾一下 FDA 在某个时候这样做的动机是什么。

In the meantime, however, I think there's a lot of interest in BPC-157, a lot of use of BPC-157.

但与此同时，我认为人们对 BPC-157 很感兴趣，并且大量使用 BPC-157。

The sources of BPC-157 are now drying up.

BPC-157 的来源现已枯竭。

That's why I'm personally concerned that people are going to start going to the dark gray market and black market.

这就是为什么我个人担心人们会开始进入深灰色市场和黑市。

I'm excited about the Pentadeca Arginate.

我对十五精氨酸感到很兴奋。

Let's put that on people's ear map, brain map.

让我们把它放在人们的耳朵图、大脑图上。

Pentadeca Arginate may be a good physician-prescribed substitution for people that can benefit from BPC-157.

对于可以受益于 BPC-157 的人来说，十五精氨酸可能是医生处方的良好替代品。

Craig: A good starting dose, so to make it really clear for people, and helpful, 250 micrograms to 500 micrograms.

克雷格：一个很好的起始剂量，所以为了让人们真正清楚并且有帮助，250 微克到 500 微克。

We're using 500 micrograms injected daily.

我们每天注射 500 微克。

Again, we like Monday through Friday.

同样，我们喜欢周一到周五。

Take the weekends off.

周末休息一下。

That's a good dosing schedule.

这是一个很好的给药方案。

We'll see how that goes.

我们会看看情况如何。

We probably can use larger dosages.

我们可能可以使用更大的剂量。

That's conservative, but that's a good starting point for people.

这是保守的，但对人们来说这是一个很好的起点。

Andrew: Thus far, you haven't mentioned any side effects of BPC-157 or Pentadeca Arginate.

Andrew：到目前为止，您还没有提到 BPC-157 或十五精氨酸的任何副作用。

That's remarkable.

这太了不起了。

Craig: It's been tremendous.

克雷格：这太棒了。

We were using BPC intravenously as well.

我们也静脉注射使用 BPC。

Patients would come in and, "Oh, tweaked my knee, tore my ACL, tore my meniscus," whatever.

病人进来时会说，“哦，扭伤了我的膝盖，撕裂了我的前十字韧带，撕裂了我的半月板，”无论如何。

You can give them BPC essentially as a bolus intravenously.

您可以通过静脉推注的方式给他们注射 BPC。

My goodness, that made a difference.

天哪，这改变了一切。

Now, using something intravenously from the pharmacokinetic standpoint, it's not going to last in the system very much.

现在，从药代动力学的角度来看，静脉注射某些东西，它不会在系统中持续很长时间。

It's more of a spark.

这更像是一个火花。

Whereas if you use an agent subcutaneously, you're going to get more of a long-lasting-- Again, not terribly long-lasting with peptides, but longer than using something intravenously.

然而，如果你皮下使用某种药物，你会得到更持久的效果——同样，肽的持久效果不是很长，但比静脉注射的效果更长。

The sweet spot was certainly using both.

最好的地方当然是同时使用两者。

We could use something as a spark to initiate that anti-inflammatory cascade, then follow up with the subcutaneous dose.

我们可以使用某种东西作为火花来启动抗炎级联反应，然后进行皮下注射。

Andrew: Even though earlier we were talking a little bit about some hormone replacement therapies, before that, off a microphone, you mentioned that you prefer peptides to direct hormone manipulations in most cases.

安德鲁：尽管早些时候我们谈论了一些激素替代疗法，但在此之前，您在麦克风前提到，在大多数情况下您更喜欢肽而不是直接激素操作。

I think while peptides can be hormones, there are things like oxytocin, is sometimes called a peptide hormone.

我认为虽然肽可以是激素，但有像催产素这样的东西，有时也称为肽激素。

In general, when people think about hormone therapies, they're thinking testosterone, estrogen, pregnanolone, thyroid, et cetera.

一般来说，当人们想到激素疗法时，他们会想到睾酮、雌激素、孕烯醇酮、甲状腺等等。

It sounds to me like much of your practice is built up around the notion that there are things that one can use, peptides, to push and pull on these various systems without getting into them directly.

在我看来，你的大部分实践都是围绕这样一个概念建立的：人们可以使用肽等东西来推动和拉动这些不同的系统，而无需直接进入它们。

My understanding is the advantage of that is you don't get the negative feedback.

我的理解是这样做的好处是你不会得到负面反馈。

You don't get the shutting down of natural production.

你不会停止自然生产。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Testosterone is a great example because, like we were saying, I don't ever want to manipulate hormones.

睾丸激素是一个很好的例子，因为就像我们所说的，我不想操纵激素。

Growth hormone is another example.

生长激素是另一个例子。

I don't ever want to manipulate that, meaning providing it to people more than they would get in nature.

我不想操纵它，这意味着向人们提供比他们在自然界中所能得到的更多的东西。

This is why I actually don't, a little bit off-topic, like when people use testosterone pellets or any sort of pellet therapy, because you're exposing people to a concentration of hormones we would never, ever see in nature.

这就是为什么我实际上不这样做，有点偏离主题，就像当人们使用睾酮丸或任何类型的丸疗法时，因为你让人们暴露在我们在自然界中永远不会看到的激素浓度中。

I would prefer people inject it where you're going to get some variation in dose on a day-to-day basis, which we're humans, so we do get some day-to-day variation, or topically, or under the tongue, or something.

我更希望人们注射它的剂量每天都会有一些变化，我们是人类，所以我们确实会遇到一些日常变化，或者局部注射，或者舌下注射，或者其他什么。

Peptide, same thing.

肽，同样的东西。

I don't want to manipulate the hormones.

我不想操纵荷尔蒙。

I want to just stick within the highways or the swim lanes for how they should operate, and then take advantage of that.

我想只关注高速公路或泳道的运作方式，然后利用它们。

That's been a safe way to do it, as opposed to, and I've seen it, talking about another peptide, which is Ipamorelin, a growth hormone-releasing peptide.

这是一种安全的方法，而不是谈论另一种肽，即伊帕瑞林，一种生长激素释放肽。

Ipamorelin, you inject under the skin, travels up to the posterior pituitary in the brain, which is responsible for putting out growth hormone.

伊帕瑞林（Ipamorelin）注射到皮下，向上移动到大脑中的垂体后叶，负责释放生长激素。

That growth hormone then leaves pituitary, enters the bloodstream, travels to the liver, or we make insulin-like growth factor I, which then enters the circulation as very anabolic, meaning growth, healing, mending.

然后，生长激素离开垂体，进入血液，到达肝脏，或者我们制造胰岛素样生长因子 I，然后进入循环，具有很强的合成代谢作用，意味着生长、愈合、修复。

As we get older, we make less growth hormone.

随着年龄的增长，我们产生的生长激素会减少。

As we get older, we wear down.

随着年龄的增长，我们会变得疲惫不堪。

Obviously, we get degenerative conditions.

显然，我们会出现退化状况。

Part of that, I don't know what part, for everyone, it's a little bit different, is because of our hormonal decline.

我不知道其中一部分，对于每个人来说，都有点不同，是因为我们的荷尔蒙下降。

When you can give something like Ipomerelin, and we can talk about others, you're actually helping not only push out a little bit of growth hormone for people, but you are directing when you push it out.

当你可以给予像伊波瑞林这样的药物时，我们可以谈论其他药物，你实际上不仅在帮助人们推出一点生长激素，而且当你推出它时你也在指导。

We think that's why it's important for people to be asleep by 10:00 PM, between 10:00 PM and 2:00 AM, because we think that's the largest pulse of growth hormone during the 24-hour period.

我们认为这就是为什么人们在晚上 10:00 之前（晚上 10:00 到凌晨 2:00 之间）入睡很重要，因为我们认为这是 24 小时内生长激素的最大脉冲。

Andrew: Is that right?

安德鲁：是吗？

I've long wondered whether or not the tale I was told when I was growing up, which is that every hour before midnight is worth two hours of sleep post-midnight.

我一直想知道我成长过程中听到的那个故事是否值得，即午夜前的每一个小时都值得午夜后睡两个小时。

Craig: That may be true.

克雷格：这可能是真的。

Andrew: That feels true to me.

安德鲁：这对我来说是真实的。

Then again, feels true is often misleading, but feels true to me.

话又说回来，感觉真实常常会产生误导，但对我来说感觉真实。

It makes perfect sense if the largest pulse in growth hormone is occurring in a couple of hours before midnight.

如果生长激素的最大脉冲发生在午夜前的几个小时内，那就完全有道理了。

Craig: Yes, that's how I learned it.

克雷格：是的，我就是这么学的。

I agree with you.

我同意你的看法。

It feels true to me as well.

这对我来说也是真实的。

Taking advantage then of injecting something like Ipomerelin at bedtime, then you're going to within a few minutes.

然后在睡前注射伊波瑞林之类的药物，几分钟之内你就会恢复正常。

With ipomerelin, it's interesting because people will get a little flushing, tingling at times.

对于伊泊瑞林，这很有趣，因为人们有时会感到有点潮红、刺痛。

What I've seen, the point I'm making is there are some physicians and some pharmacies, which the dosage of ipamorelin, and most of these growth hormone-related peptides, should be 100 micrograms.

我所看到的，我要表达的观点是，一些医生和一些药房认为伊帕瑞林以及大多数生长激素相关肽的剂量应该是 100 微克。

That's the max dose to bind the receptor.

这是结合受体的最大剂量。

What I've seen is, with ipamorelin, rare, but some people do get anaphylaxis, and it's happened.

我所看到的是，伊帕瑞林很少见，但有些人确实会出现过敏反应，而且这种情况已经发生了。

I think that happens when people are pushing it and giving more than they should.

我认为当人们推动它并给予超过他们应有的东西时就会发生这种情况。

I've heard of that.

我听说过。

They're giving 200, 300, 400 micrograms at a time, which is a big dose.

他们一次给予 200、300、400 微克，这是一个很大的剂量。

What they're getting is the patient is like, "Oh my gosh, I feel this amazing flushing.

他们得到的结果是，病人会说：“天啊，我感觉脸红得惊人。

It must be working." Then you could spiral into, "Oh my goodness, I don't feel so good." Your circulation system collapsing.

它一定起作用了。”然后你可能会说：“天哪，我感觉不太好。”你的循环系统崩溃了。

Andrew: Yes, using side effects as an indicator of whether or not something's working just seems like a terrible idea.

安德鲁：是的，使用副作用作为某物是否有效的指标似乎是一个糟糕的主意。

Craig: It's very common.

克雷格：这很常见。

Andrew: I tend to be very conservative about these things.

安德鲁：我对这些事情往往非常保守。

By the way, I've tried various peptides for short periods of time because I like to experiment very safely.

顺便说一句，我曾在短时间内尝试过各种肽，因为我喜欢非常安全地进行实验。

Some things, like sermorelin, and we'll talk about other growth hormones, secretagogues, for me, for whatever reason, gave me great sleep but only in the first part of the night.

有些东西，比如舍莫林，我们会谈论其他生长激素、促分泌素，对我来说，无论出于什么原因，都让我睡得很好，但只在晚上的前半部分。

It nuked my rapid eye movement sleep in the second half of the night.

它破坏了我后半夜的快速动眼睡眠。

It spiked my prostate-specific antigen.

它刺激了我的前列腺特异性抗原。

It was a very consistent effect.

这是一个非常一致的效果。

Craig: Oh, wow.

克雷格：哦，哇。

Andrew: I came off it.

安德鲁：我已经摆脱它了。

It went back down, and it went back on.

它又跌倒了，又重新上来。

It went back up.

它又回来了。

I just found I couldn't take it.

我刚刚发现我无法接受。

It didn't take me very long to figure that out.

我没花很长时间就明白了这一点。

I know that there are some people who love sermorelin and don't see any of the same issues.

我知道有些人喜欢舍莫林，但没有看到任何相同的问题。

It seems like it can be very individual.

看起来它可以非常有个性。

Craig: I agree with that.

克雷格：我同意这一点。

I agree with that.

我同意这一点。

That's why I think it's, again, helpful to work with a physician who has experience, who can kind of, I think of these peptides as having flavors, particularly the growth hormone-releasing peptides.

这就是为什么我认为与有经验的医生合作是有帮助的，他可以，我认为这些肽有味道，特别是生长激素释放肽。

Ipamorelin, very clean.

伊帕瑞林，很干净。

As long as you stay within 100 micrograms or less, people are going to lean out a little bit, sleep a little bit better.

只要保持在 100 微克或更少，人们就会变得更瘦一点，睡得更好一点。

There's no real side effects.

没有真正的副作用。

Andrew: They take it pre-sleep.

安德鲁：他们在睡前服用。

Craig: Pre-sleep at bedtime.

克雷格：睡前睡前。

Andrew: Without carbohydrates ingested in the previous two hours, correct?

安德鲁：前两个小时内没有摄入碳水化合物，对吗？

Craig: Yes, or 45 minutes, technically.

克雷格：是的，严格来说是 45 分钟。

Yes, that's right.

是的，没错。

They're saying growth hormone-releasing peptide 6, GHRP-6, which is also going to bind.

他们说的是生长激素释放肽 6，GHRP-6，它也会结合。

I think of ipamorelin being the most specific for the growth hormone receptor but the weakest.

我认为伊帕瑞林对生长激素受体的特异性最强，但也最弱。

When you inject it, you will get growth hormone to come out, and only growth hormone, but it's not going to be a big burst of growth hormone.

当你注射它的时候，你会得到生长激素，而且只有生长激素，但不会是大量的生长激素。

You inject GHRP-6, now you may bind some prolactin.

你注射GHRP-6，现在你可能会结合一些催乳素。

Now you may bind some ACTH, which is going to have your adrenals put out cortisol.

现在你可能会结合一些促肾上腺皮质激素，这会让你的肾上腺释放出皮质醇。

Now you're going to get a hunger response, right?

现在你会得到饥饿反应，对吧？

Andrew: Maybe even have trouble sleeping if you're getting it.

安德鲁：如果你得到了它，甚至可能会睡不着觉。

Craig: You may have trouble sleeping, but where that's beneficial for is, if you're looking to put on mass or get strong, GHRP-6 is your go-to.

克雷格：您可能难以入睡，但它的好处是，如果您想增加体重或变得强壮，GHRP-6 就是您的首选。

You will increase your appetite.

你会增加你的食欲。

If you're smart, you'll eat a lot more protein.

如果你聪明的话，你会吃更多的蛋白质。

The building of muscle is not necessarily complicated.

肌肉的锻炼并不一定复杂。

It's resistance training, sufficient protein, which is where I think most people fall off, and then having some anabolic hormone in the background, like growth hormone or testosterone or both, helps that process.

这是阻力训练，足够的蛋白质，我认为这是大多数人失败的地方，然后在背景中加入一些合成代谢激素，如生长激素或睾酮或两者，有助于这一过程。

That's where GHRP-6 can shine.

这就是 GHRP-6 的闪光点。

Within weeks, people will get big and strong, increase their bench press, whatever.

几周之内，人们就会变得又大又强壮，增加卧推次数等等。

Stuff flat out works, but you got to know how to use it and understand the flavors.

东西完全有效，但你必须知道如何使用它并了解它的味道。

The point I'm making is these different peptides have different flavors, and to your point, there's individual responses, that can be a good thing.

我想说的是，这些不同的肽有不同的味道，就你的观点而言，存在个体反应，这可能是一件好事。

Andrew: I think for most of our audience, the interest in growth hormone secretagogues probably relates to the better sleep and the overall feelings of vitality, and probably most people are seeking to not spike their appetite or put on muscle, really.

安德鲁：我认为对于我们的大多数观众来说，对生长激素促分泌剂的兴趣可能与更好的睡眠和整体活力感有关，而且可能大多数人实际上都在寻求不增加食欲或增加肌肉。

Craig: No, I agree.

克雷格：不，我同意。

Andrew: These days, we're hearing more and more from people, both men and women, who want to be strong without being big, and they prefer to be lean as opposed to not lean, which I think is a great goal.

安德鲁：这些天，我们听到越来越多的人，无论是男性还是女性，都希望变得强壮而不是庞大，他们更喜欢瘦而不是不瘦，我认为这是一个伟大的目标。

Frankly, that's my goal at this stage of life.

坦白说，这就是我现阶段的目标。

I just turned 49 yesterday, and I really--

我昨天刚满 49 岁，我真的——

Craig: Happy birthday.

克雷格：生日快乐。

Andrew: Oh, thank you.

安德鲁：噢，谢谢。

Thank you.

谢谢。

Yes.

是的。

Thanks for coming out to the birthday-

谢谢你来参加生日-

Craig: That was a lot of fun.

克雷格：那很有趣。

Andrew: -mini bash the other day.

安德鲁：-前几天的迷你狂欢。

It was a lot of fun.

这很有趣。

Yes, I want to be strong and capable.

是的，我想要变得坚强、有能力。

I also want to be able to run and have cardiovascular fitness, but I don't want to be large.

我也希望能够跑步并锻炼心血管功能，但我不想体型很大。

I don't want to take up a lot of space.

我不想占用太多空间。

I'm not interested in taking up a lot of space, and I think most people fall into that category.

我对占用大量空间不感兴趣，我认为大多数人都属于这一类。

Craig: I agree.

克雷格：我同意。

Andrew: If GHRP-6 can spike appetite, which, for a subset of people, might be useful, but probably most people will want to avoid it.

Andrew：如果 GHRP-6 可以刺激食欲，这对于一小部分人来说可能有用，但可能大多数人都想避免它。

Ipamorelin, I've always been calling it ipamorelin, but ipamorelin at a 100 micrograms dosage or less per night sounds like it's an interesting tool.

伊帕瑞林，我一直称其为伊帕瑞林，但每晚 100 微克或更少剂量的伊帕瑞林听起来是一个有趣的工具。

What are some of the other growth hormone secretagogues?

其他生长激素促分泌剂还有哪些？

I should just brief.

我应该简单介绍一下。

I'll take the liberty of defining it.

我将冒昧地定义它。

These are peptides that stimulate the release of your own endogenous growth hormone.

这些肽可以刺激您自身内源性生长激素的释放。

This is not taking growth hormone.

这不是服用生长激素。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Two other main ones that we use one would be tesamorelin, which is similar to sermorelin, and that it also is going to work on the growth hormone-releasing hormone aspect a little bit higher up in the chain of how these hormones are released.

我们使用的另外两种主要药物是替沙莫林，它与舍莫林相似，并且它也将在生长激素释放激素方面发挥作用，在这些激素的释放链中处于更高的位置。

Both sermorelin and tesamorelin, you don't necessarily need to add anything else to it.

无论是舍莫林还是替莫莫林，您都不一定需要添加其他任何东西。

Classically, with ipamorelin, hexarelin, GHRP-6, we would add this other compound, CJC-1295, which is going to work on the GHRH, which allows the peptide and then the growth hormone to stay in your system a little bit longer.

通常，对于伊帕瑞林、海沙瑞林、GHRP-6，我们会添加另一种化合物 CJC-1295，它将作用于 GHRH，让肽和生长激素在您的系统中停留更长时间。

Andrew: The growth hormone-releasing hormone?

安德鲁：生长激素释放激素？

Craig: Correct.

克雷格：正确。

Andrew: Yes, but we can almost set aside CJC now because CJC-1295--

Andrew：是的，但我们现在几乎可以搁置 CJC，因为 CJC-1295--

Craig: That's on the same list as being the same.

克雷格：这在同一个列表上，因为是相同的。

Andrew: The FDA just came in, and let's just say, one acronym took out another.

安德鲁： FDA 刚刚介入，我们可以说，一个缩写词取代了另一个缩写词。

Craig: There you go.

克雷格：给你。

Andrew: The FDA took out CJC.

Andrew：FDA 取消了 CJC。

Craig: That's right, and BPC.

克雷格：没错，还有 BPC。

Andrew: Yes, and BPC.

安德鲁：是的，还有 BPC。

People are probably getting a little dizzy with these acronyms, but I think we're doing a good job of guiding people along.

人们可能对这些缩写词感到有点头晕，但我认为我们在引导人们方面做得很好。

Sermorelin and tesamorelin are similar enough?

舍莫林和替沙莫林足够相似吗？

Craig: Similar in that regard.

克雷格：在这方面类似。

Again, talking about flavors, Tesamorelin works on visceral fat reductions, so fat around the organs.

再次谈到口味，Tesamorelin 可减少内脏脂肪，从而减少器官周围的脂肪。

Andrew: It's been FDA-approved for that purpose.

Andrew：它已获得 FDA 批准用于此目的。

Craig: Yes, with HIV patients, having this lipodystrophy, which is abnormal accumulation of fat, in particular, visceral fat around organs.

克雷格：是的，艾滋病毒患者患有脂肪营养不良，这是脂肪的异常积累，特别是器官周围的内脏脂肪。

Tesamorelin works well for that.

Tesamorelin 对此效果很好。

My observation from using it with lots and lots of people, it seems to work better in females than males.

根据我对很多人使用它的观察，它似乎对女性比男性更有效。

Andrew: Or does it lead to this feeling of enhanced sleep as well?

安德鲁：或者它也会带来这种睡眠增强的感觉吗？

Craig: Yes, so I think any of the growth hormone-releasing peptides, anytime you're going to make growth hormone more active in your world, that's how I think about it, better sleep, better skin tone, texture.

克雷格：是的，所以我认为任何生长激素释放肽，只要你想让生长激素在你的世界中更加活跃，这就是我的想法，更好的睡眠，更好的肤色和质地。

You're more resilient.

你更有弹性。

I think growth hormone is a resiliency hormone.

我认为生长激素是一种弹性激素。

Durability.

耐用性。

people find that, oh, I do a hard workout, but it takes me days to recover.

人们发现，哦，我进行了艰苦的锻炼，但我需要几天的时间才能恢复。

I sprain my ankle, it takes me a week to recover.

我扭伤了脚踝，需要一个星期才能康复。

I cut my skin, it takes me forever to heal.

我割伤了皮肤，需要很长时间才能痊愈。

They've got a durability issue, and that's how I think about where growth hormone can shine.

它们存在耐久性问题，这就是我对生长激素可以发挥作用的看法。

Not that you got to go all the way to growth hormone, but these peptides can be a really nice push.

并不是说你必须一直使用生长激素，但这些肽可以起到非常好的推动作用。

Andrew: This is taken before sleep, no food within 45 minutes-

安德鲁：这是睡前服用，45分钟内禁食-

Craig: Correct.

克雷格：正确。

Andrew: -of the injection.

安德鲁：-注射。

Craig: Then the magic and what we do is, when we first started about eight years ago, we'd use one peptide at a time.

克雷格：然后，我们所做的神奇之处在于，当我们大约八年前第一次开始时，我们一次使用一种肽。

Then what we learned is let's combine these peptides.

然后我们学到的是让我们将这些肽结合起来。

Let's stack peptides, and that's how we do it.

让我们堆叠肽，这就是我们的做法。

Andrew: At lower dosages?

安德鲁：较低剂量？

Craig: Sometimes lower dosages.

克雷格：有时剂量较低。

For example, we had a great combination, BPC, ipamorelin, and tesamorelin all together, taken at bedtime, and you're going to get subcutaneous fat reduction from the ipamorelin, visceral fat reduction from the tesamorelin, upregulation of the growth hormone receptor from the BPC.

例如，我们有一个很好的组合，BPC、伊帕莫林和替沙莫林在一起，在睡前服用，伊帕莫林可以减少皮下脂肪，替沙莫林可以减少内脏脂肪，BPC 可以上调生长激素受体。

It was a wonderful peptide.

这是一种很棒的肽。

We labeled it as a fat loss peptide, but people would put on lean muscle mass, they'd sleep better.

我们将其标记为减脂肽，但人们会增加瘦肌肉质量，他们会睡得更好。

Their skin would be better.

他们的皮肤会更好。

They'd be more durable.

它们会更耐用。

Their thought process would be better.

他们的思维过程会更好。

Awesome stuff, and that's where I think that's where we enjoy it, is stacking these peptides together.

很棒的东西，我认为这就是我们喜欢它的地方，即将这些肽堆叠在一起。

It's not, again, just one peptide at a time, but able to do it.

再说一遍，它不是一次只能合成一种肽，而是能够做到这一点。

That's why, again, working with a compounding pharmacy, we can put these together.

这就是为什么我们再次与复方药房合作，将它们组合在一起。

You're only doing one shot a day.

你一天只打一枪。

You may be doing three to seven peptides, but it's still one shot.

您可能会做三到七个肽，但这仍然是一次。

Andrew: Got it.

安德鲁：明白了。

If one is combining tesamorelin or sermorelin, ipamorelin and, well, not BPC anymore, but Pentadeca Arginate instead, because you can't get BPC-157 compounded, is that done every night, fve days a week?

如果将替沙莫林或舍莫林、伊帕莫林和，嗯，不再是 BPC，而是五十六精氨酸（因为你无法混合 BPC-157）相结合，是不是每晚都这样做，每周 5 天？

Three days a week?

一周三天？

What's the rationale of this five days on, two days off?

这五天休息两天的理由是什么？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Five days on, two days off I came up with it because of how we would dose growth hormone.

五天休息两天，我想出这个办法是因为我们如何服用生长激素。

The traditional growth hormone dosing cycle would be five days on, two days off, taken at bedtime.

传统的生长激素给药周期是服用五天，休息两天，睡前服用。

That's where it came up.

这就是它出现的地方。

Then I, personally, with patients and myself, I like to take breaks.

然后，就我个人而言，对于患者和我自己，我喜欢休息一下。

Even with supplements, I won't take them on the weekends.

即使有补充剂，我也不会在周末服用。

Again, anything you expose yourself to on a regular basis is going to decrease the potency.

再说一次，你经常接触的任何东西都会降低效力。

We see that with exercise.

我们通过锻炼看到了这一点。

We see that with food.

我们在食物中看到了这一点。

If you're eating the same food every day, it seems to become less valuable for you.

如果你每天吃同样的食物，它对你来说似乎就变得不那么有价值了。

Change it up.

改变它。

We have to throw on the crazy switch every now and then.

我们必须时不时地打开疯狂的开关。

Change it up, and so then you're going to make it more potent for you.

改变它，这样你就会让它对你更有效。

I do the same thing with supplements so that-- it just resonates with me, with people to take a break from stuff.

我对补充剂也做了同样的事情，这样它就能引起我的共鸣，让人们从物质中得到休息。

Andrew: I'd like to take a quick break and thank one of our sponsors, Function.

Andrew：我想稍微休息一下，并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。

I recently became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.

在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我最近成为了 Function 成员。

While I've long been a fan of blood testing, I really wanted to find a more in-depth program for analyzing blood, urine, and saliva to get a full picture of my heart health, my hormone status, my immune system regulation, my metabolic function, my vitamin and mineral status, and other critical areas of my overall health and vitality.

虽然我长期以来一直热衷于血液检测，但我真的很想找到一个更深入的程序来分析血液、尿液和唾液，以全面了解我的心脏健康状况、我的激素状态、我的免疫系统调节、我的代谢功能、我的维生素和矿物质状态以及我整体健康和活力的其他关键领域。

Function not only provides testing of over a hundred biomarkers key to physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors on your results.

Function 不仅提供对身心健康至关重要的一百多种生物标志物的测试，而且还分析这些结果并提供顶级医生对结果的见解。

For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had two high levels of mercury in my blood.

例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量很高。

This was totally surprising to me.

这让我完全惊讶。

I had no idea prior to taking the test.

参加考试之前我不知道。

Function, not only helped me detect this, but offered medical doctor-informed insights on how to best reduce those mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, because I had been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetyl cysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification, and work to reduce my mercury levels.

功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，而且还为我提供了关于如何最好地降低汞含量的医生知情见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼消费，因为我一直在吃大量金枪鱼​​，同时还努力吃更多的绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒，并努力降低我的汞含量。

Comprehensive lab testing like this is so important for health.

像这样的综合实验室测试对健康非常重要。

While I've been doing it for years, I've always found it to be overly complicated and expensive.

虽然我已经这样做了很多年，但我总是发现它过于复杂和昂贵。

I've been so impressed by Function, both at the level of ease of use, that is getting the test done, as well as how comprehensive and how actionable the tests are, that I recently joined their advisory board.

Function 给我留下了深刻的印象，无论是在易用性方面还是在完成测试方面，以及测试的全面性和可操作性方面，我最近加入了他们的顾问委员会。

I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.

我很高兴他们赞助这个播客。

If you'd like to try Function, go to functionhealth.com/huberman.

如果您想尝试 Function，请访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。

Function currently has a waitlist of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman Lab listeners.

Function 目前有超过 250,000 人的候补名单，但他们正在为 Huberman Lab 听众提供早期访问服务。

Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.

同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。

Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep.

今天的节目也是八觉给我们带来的。

Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep-tracking capacity.

八睡眠公司生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠跟踪功能的智能床垫套。

Now, I've spoken many times before on this podcast about the critical need for us to get adequate amounts of quality sleep each night.

现在，我之前已经在这个播客中多次谈到我们每晚获得充足的优质睡眠的迫切需要。

That's truly the foundation of all mental health, physical health, and performance.

这确实是所有心理健康、身体健康和表现的基础。

One of the best ways to ensure that you get a great night's sleep is to control the temperature of your sleeping environment.

确保您睡个好觉的最佳方法之一是控制睡眠环境的温度。

That's because, in order to fall and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about 1 to 3 degrees.

这是因为，为了入睡并保持深度睡眠，您的体温实际上必须下降约 1 到 3 度。

In order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature actually has to increase about 1 to 3 degrees.

为了醒来时感觉神清气爽、精力充沛，您的体温实际上必须升高约 1 至 3 度。

Eight Sleep makes it incredibly easy to control the temperature of your sleeping environment by allowing you to control the temperature of your mattress cover at the beginning, middle, and end of the night.

八睡眠让您可以非常轻松地控制睡眠环境的温度，让您可以在晚上的开始、中间和结束时控制床垫套的温度。

I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for nearly four years now, and it has completely transformed and improved the quality of my sleep.

我已经睡在八睡眠床垫罩上近四年了，它彻底改变并改善了我的睡眠质量。

Eight Sleep has now launched their newest generation of the pod cover, the Pod 4 Ultra.

八睡眠现在推出了他们最新一代的 Pod 4 Ultra。

The Pod 4 Ultra has improved cooling and heating capacity, higher fidelity sleep tracking technology, and even has snoring detection that will automatically lift your head a few degrees to improve your airflow and stop your snoring.

Pod 4 Ultra 具有改进的冷却和加热能力、更高保真度的睡眠跟踪技术，甚至还具有打鼾检测功能，可以自动将您的头抬起几度，以改善气流并停止打鼾。

If you'd like to try an Eight Sleep mattress cover, go to eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $350 off their Pod 4 Ultra.

如果您想尝试 8 Sleep 床垫套，请访问 foursleep.com/huberman，Pod 4 Ultra 最多可节省 350 美元。

Eight Sleep currently ships in the USA, Canada, UK, select countries in the EU, and Australia.

八睡眠目前在美国、加拿大、英国、欧盟部分国家和澳大利亚发货。

Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman.

再说一遍，这是八睡眠.com/huberman。

Before we started recording, you mentioned that you're actually not a huge fan of taking massive amounts of supplements.

在我们开始录制之前，您提到您实际上并不热衷于服用大量补充剂。

That you are a big fan of taking CoQ10.

您非常喜欢服用 CoQ10。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: Coenzyme Q10, 200 milligrams per day in the morning.

安德鲁：辅酶 Q10，每天早上 200 毫克。

I also take CoQ10.

我也服用 CoQ10。

I think I started taking it for "general mitochondrial health." I don't know that I thought very carefully about exactly what I was trying to accomplish with it.

我想我开始服用它是为了“一般线粒体健康”。我不知道我是否仔细思考过我到底想用它来完成什么。

What is the rationale of taking CoQ10?

服用 CoQ10 的理由是什么？

Craig: If I can break it down and try to keep it simple, people are familiar with the mitochondria.

克雷格：如果我能把它分解并尽量保持简单，人们就会熟悉线粒体。

It's the battery of the cell, these little organelles inside each cell, and they're responsible for doing many things, but primarily making ATP chemical energy.

它是细胞的电池，每个细胞内的这些小细胞器，它们负责做很多事情，但主要是产生 ATP 化学能。

How do we make energy?

我们如何制造能量？

Well, there's three main ways the body uses it or makes it.

嗯，身体主要通过三种方式使用或制造它。

First is glycolysis.

首先是糖酵解。

We take glucose, which is a six-carbon molecule.

我们服用葡萄糖，它是一种六碳分子。

We break it in half to make two pyruvates.

我们将其切成两半，制成两种丙酮酸盐。

When we do that, we make a little bit of ATP.

当我们这样做时，我们会产生一点 ATP。

That pyruvate then is converted to something called acetyl-CoA.

然后丙酮酸转化为乙酰辅酶A。

We run that through the Krebs cycle, where we're also making ATP.

我们将其贯穿克雷布斯循环，同时我们也在生成 ATP。

We're then making these intermediate products, one of those intermediate products.

然后我们正在生产这些中间产品，这些中间产品之一。

The main one is something called NADH.

主要的一种是NADH。

That NADH is then shuttled to the mitochondrial membrane.

然后 NADH 被运送到线粒体膜。

This is the magic where we make the most ATP.

这就是我们制造最多 ATP 的神奇之处。

There's five different hubs or we call cytochromes.

有五种不同的中心，我们称之为细胞色素。

This is how I think about it, because I just like to simplify.

这就是我的想法，因为我只是喜欢简化。

Cytochrome 1 is where we use NAD.

细胞色素 1 是我们使用 NAD 的地方。

What the different hubs are doing is we're exchanging electrons for protons.

不同的中心所做的就是我们用质子交换电子。

That's an electrical process.

这是一个电过程。

We're exchanging electrons for protons going down an assembly line to eventually turn this wheel, the ATPase wheel, to make ATP.

我们用电子交换质子，沿着装配线最终转动这个轮子，即 ATP 酶轮，制造 ATP。

The way I understand it is, the five different hubs, different nutrients hit them.

我的理解是，五个不同的枢纽，不同的营养物质撞击它们。

Cytochrome 1 is NAD, cytochrome 2 is riboflavin, vitamin B2, and succinic acid.

细胞色素 1 是 NAD，细胞色素 2 是核黄素、维生素 B2 和琥珀酸。

Cytochrome 3 is CoQ10, vitamin K2.

细胞色素3是CoQ10、维生素K2。

Cytochrome 4 is methylene blue, which we can talk about.

细胞色素4是亚甲蓝，我们可以谈论它。

Then cytochrome 5 are things like magnesium, vitamin A, and copper.

然后细胞色素 5 是镁、维生素 A 和铜等物质。

If you're thinking about mitochondrial health, if you include any or better, all of those, you're going to maximize how your mitochondria can work and make energy.

如果您正在考虑线粒体健康，如果您包括其中任何一个或更好的所有这些，您将最大限度地提高线粒体的工作和产生能量的方式。

It's the strongest way to do it.

这是最有力的方法。

It's , again, not necessarily the complicated.

再说一次，这并不一定很复杂。

When I think of CoQ10, and again, we use a lot of NAD, which we can talk about, where I think most people, the traffic congestion happens on cytochrome 1.

当我想到 CoQ10 时，我们再次使用大量 NAD，我们可以谈论这一点，我认为大多数人的交通拥堵发生在细胞色素 1 上。

When we give people or upregulate their NAD production, it's essentially we're allowing for more electron flow at cytochrome 1, which has a downstream effect on the other cytochromes, so the traffic jam opens up.

当我们给人们提供或上调他们的 NAD 产生时，本质上是我们允许细胞色素 1 上有更多的电子流，这对其他细胞色素有下游影响，因此交通堵塞出现。

Now you can move electrons to exchange for protons and make way more ATP.

现在您可以移动电子来交换质子并产生更多 ATP。

That's not true for everyone.

并非每个人都这样。

Some people, it could be at cytochrome 3 with CoQ10.

有些人，它可能位于细胞色素 3 和 CoQ10 处。

It could be at cytochrome 2.

它可能位于细胞色素 2 处。

A lot of people at cytochrome 4, which is again we call it cytochrome C oxidase, which is where methylene blue binds, but that's just a simplistic view.

很多人关注细胞色素 4，我们又将其称为细胞色素 C 氧化酶，它是亚甲蓝结合的地方，但这只是一个简单化的观点。

People, we run into traffic jams.

各位，我们遇到交通堵塞了。

This electron flow gets stuck.

该电子流被卡住。

We're just trying to open up the traffic jam.

我们只是想疏通交通拥堵。

Andrew: 200 milligrams a day of coenzyme Q10 can facilitate some of that.

Andrew：每天 200 毫克的辅酶 Q10 可以起到一定的促进作用。

Craig: Correct.

克雷格：正确。

Cytochrome 3 for sure.

当然是细胞色素3。

CoQ10 has been studied, very safe, up to 2,400 milligrams a day.

CoQ10经过研究，非常安全，每天最多2400毫克。

No harmful effects.

无有害影响。

Sometimes I'll take more.

有时我会拿更多。

Like I was telling you earlier, it's been dramatic for me with migraine, headaches and basically reducing them to zero.

就像我之前告诉你的那样，这对我来说是戏剧性的，偏头痛、头痛基本上减少到了零。

Andrew: As people are hearing this, they're probably thinking, "Okay, this is what I call anec data or whatever." I don't have to remind people that you're a board-certified physician.

安德鲁：当人们听到这个时，他们可能会想，“好吧，这就是我所说的 anec 数据或其他什么。”我不必提醒人们您是经过委员会认证的医生。

I think that what's still ringing in the back of my mind this entire conversation, even though I'm paying very careful attention, is that most of the drugs that are prescribed in this country are off-label.

我认为，尽管我非常仔细地关注，但在整个谈话过程中，我脑海中仍然萦绕着一个问题：这个国家开出的大多数药物都是标签外药物。

I don't think I've ever heard that stated out loud.

我想我从来没有听人大声说过这样的话。

It's wild.

它很狂野。

The idea that people would take something that wasn't shown in a clinical trial to be effective for purpose A, that it gets approved for purpose A, but then can be prescribed by doctors for purpose B, C, D, or E.

人们会接受一些在临床试验中未显示对目的 A 有效的药物，该药物获得批准用于目的 A，但随后可以由医生开处方用于目的 B、C、D 或 E。

You're not telling me this is commonplace.

你不是在告诉我这很常见。

You're telling me this is the majority of prescription drugs.

你告诉我这是大多数处方药。

Craig: It makes sense if you think about it.

克雷格：如果你仔细想想，这是有道理的。

If you took an antibiotic, an antibiotic is going to be very specific what it gets approved for in terms of working against a specific bacteria.

如果您服用了抗生素，那么抗生素在对抗特定细菌方面会非常具体。

Then, through clinical use and just experience, we learned that, "Oh, I can use doxycycline or a Z-Pak, azithromycin or whatever it is for a variety of bacterial infections that extend well beyond just what it's approved for.

然后，通过临床使用和经验，我们了解到，“哦，我可以使用多西环素或 Z-Pak、阿奇霉素或其他任何药物来治疗各种细菌感染，这些感染的范围远远超出了其批准的范围。

Would that make sense?

这有意义吗？

Andrew: Does that ever cycle back to the clinical trials?

安德鲁：这会循环回到临床试验吗？

Or no, it just becomes physician understanding and lower?

或者不是，它只是成为医生的理解和降低？

Like, "Hey, I've got patients that they get on azithromycin and their acne clears up." By the way, I'm not saying that, folks.

就像，“嘿，我有一些病人服用阿奇霉素后，他们的痤疮就消失了。”顺便说一句，我不是这么说的，伙计们。

I'm not a physician, but for instance.

我不是医生，但举例来说。

Craig: Exactly what happened with semaglutide and Ozempic.

克雷格：索马鲁肽和 Ozempic 就是这样。

Approved for helping glucose utilization or lowering blood glucose in patients with Type II diabetes.

批准用于帮助 II 型糖尿病患者利用葡萄糖或降低血糖。

They found, through use only, people were losing weight.

他们发现，仅通过使用，人们的体重就会减轻。

Now it's become a blockbuster.

现在它已成为一则重磅炸弹。

We see it with things like repurposing drugs for cancer.

我们在癌症药物的重新利用等方面看到了这一点。

There's a lot of that going on, a lot of the repurposing.

有很多事情正在发生，很多事情都在重新调整用途。

Doxycycline is a very common one that's used in cancer therapies, I think, by sophisticated oncologists.

我认为，强力霉素是一种非常常见的药物，被经验丰富的肿瘤学家用于癌症治疗。

I don't treat cancer, but by sophisticated oncologist to use things like doxycycline, metformin, and mebendazole, which is an anti-parasitic drug, to help with cancer.

我不治疗癌症，而是由经验丰富的肿瘤学家使用强力霉素、二甲双胍和甲苯咪唑（一种抗寄生虫药物）等药物来帮助治疗癌症。

That's amazing.

太棒了。

Andrew: So interesting.

安德鲁：太有趣了。

It is amazing.

太神奇了。

I think also I'm reminded that medicine, as beautiful field as it is, I have tremendous respect for it, of course, is a field of fairly siloed training.

我想我还记得，医学虽然是一个美丽的领域，但我对它怀有极大的敬意，当然，它是一个相当孤立的培训领域。

I love the idea that now, thanks to public education efforts like this one that you're providing us, that physicians learn from each other in a much broader way and can potentially hear about what drugs can be useful for this or that.

我喜欢这样的想法：现在，由于您为我们提供的这样的公共教育工作，医生可以以更广泛的方式相互学习，并且有可能了解哪些药物可以用于此或彼。

The other thing, and this is not editorial, this is a real observation, pharmaceutical companies are very interested in the other uses of already approved drugs.

另一件事，这不是社论，这是真实的观察，制药公司对已批准药物的其他用途非常感兴趣。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: The research and development process for a drug, the safety evaluation, is incredibly expensive.

安德鲁：药物的研发过程、安全性评估是非常昂贵的。

They want nothing more than to take a drug that's already been approved for one purpose and to take that already safety-approved drug and find other uses.

他们只想服用一种已经被批准用于某一目的的药物，并服用这种已经获得安全性批准的药物并寻找其他用途。

How are they not circling back to the off-label use and understanding of these compounds and then essentially marketing them for these other purposes?

他们怎么不回到标签外使用和理解这些化合物，然后基本上将它们营销用于这些其他目的？

Or I guess with Ozempic, that's exactly what happened.

或者我想对于 Ozempic，这正是发生的事情。

Craig: That's what happened with Ozempic.

克雷格：Ozempic 就是这样。

Again, I write prescriptions.

再次，我开处方。

I think there's a time and place.

我想有一个时间和地点。

I think it's challenging for me, though.

不过，我认为这对我来说很有挑战性。

I think, for a lot of physicians, it's become challenging operating in a paradigm where we talk about chronic disease, which is essentially failing.

我认为，对于很多医生来说，在我们谈论慢性病的范式中进行操作变得具有挑战性，这本质上是失败的。

We all know this statistically.

我们都知道这一点。

We're not making huge dents in heart disease, cancer, autoimmune disease, or neurodegenerative.

我们并没有在心脏病、癌症、自身免疫性疾病或神经退行性疾病方面取得巨大进展。

We're not at all, but we're spending exorbitant amounts of money.

我们根本没有，但我们花了太多钱。

This is something that I had to learn over time.

这是我随着时间的推移必须学习的东西。

I don't know how I got into it, but when I started my practice back in 2006, it was a traditional family medicine practice, but I started using these nutritional IVs.

我不知道我是如何进入这个行业的，但当我在 2006 年开始执业时，这是一种传统的家庭医学实践，但我开始使用这些营养静脉注射。

This is before hangover IVs.

这是宿醉静脉注射之前的情况。

This is before it was popular.

这是流行之前的事。

This is 20 years ago.

这是20年前的事了。

What I learned was that these nutritional IVs help people feel better quickly.

我了解到这些营养静脉注射可以帮助人们快速感觉好起来。

I developed this model for my patients, which I think is a better model, which is I want to help people feel better first, like we were talking about earlier in this podcast.

我为我的患者开发了这个模型，我认为这是一个更好的模型，我想首先帮助人们感觉更好，就像我们在本播客前面讨论的那样。

If I can get people to feel better-- what we learned through COVID, and honestly, what I want to say to you, Andrew, which is really true, your podcast and what you do has been so successful at a time during the pandemic when people lost so much trust in people like me.

如果我能让人们感觉好一点——我们从新冠疫情中学到的东西，老实说，我想对你说的话，安德鲁，这是真的，你的播客和你所做的事情在大流行期间非常成功，当时人们对像我这样的人失去了如此多的信任。

People lost that trust of what do I do?

人们对我做什么失去了信任？

This is a scary time.

这是一个可怕的时刻。

I don't know what's going on.

我不知道发生了什么事。

You guys come along, you in particular, providing this very stable, vetted information that people can trust and have a starting point be like, this is what I want to do.

你们，尤其是你们，提供了人们可以信任的非常稳定、经过审查的信息，并且有一个起点，这就是我想做的。

One of the gifts of COVID was it put our health on the forefront of most people's mind and life.

新冠疫情的礼物之一是它让我们的健康成为大多数人思想和生活的重中之重。

What you're doing is tremendous work.

你正在做的是一项艰巨的工作。

I can tell you personally--

我可以亲自告诉你——

Andrew: Thank you.

安德鲁：谢谢。

Craig: No, literally, like as a physician, it's such an honor to be here and to talk to you because every day my patients come to me and said, "I heard this on the Huberman Lab podcast.

克雷格：不，从字面上看，就像作为一名医生一样，很荣幸来到这里与您交谈，因为每天我的患者都会来找我说，“我在休伯曼实验室播客上听到了这个。

What do you think of it?

你觉得怎么样？

I am not joking.

我不是在开玩笑。

I love that.

我喜欢那个。

I think it is awesome because people, one, taking their health seriously, but two, they have a stable resource that they can trust.

我认为这很棒，因为人们，第一，认真对待自己的健康，第二，他们拥有可以信任的稳定资源。

The problem with physicians, and I'll tie this back in, is physicians are hard to trust.

医生的问题是，我将把这一点联系起来，是医生很难信任。

It's this paternalistic model, and that's how I was trained, which is, you're going to do this because I'm going to tell you to do it.

这就是家长式的模式，这就是我接受的训练，也就是说，你要这样做，因为我要告诉你这样做。

I remember being in medical school, which was in the '90s, and I can't remember the exact specifics of the study, but they did a study where they collected the trash outside of physicians' offices, found that greater than 30% of prescriptions written that day were thrown away.

我记得我在医学院，那是在 90 年代，我不记得这项研究的具体细节，但他们做了一项研究，收集医生办公室外的垃圾，发现当天开出的处方有超过 30% 被扔掉了。

Greater than 30%.

大于30%。

I remember learning that, and I was like, "What is going on?

我记得我得知这一点后，我就想：“这是怎么回事？

Andrew: By the patients?

安德鲁：由病人？

Craig: Correct.

克雷格：正确。

You came to the doctor because you wanted a prescription, right?

你去看医生是因为你想要处方，对吗？

No, you came to the doctor because you weren't feeling good.

不，你去看医生是因为你感觉不舒服。

You came to the doctor because you wanted to be listened to.

您去看医生是因为您希望得到倾听。

You came to the doctor because you wanted to be validated.

您去看医生是因为您想得到验证。

Most of the time, and this still happens today, the vast majority of doctors will just write you a prescription, or they'll write you two prescriptions.

大多数时候，这种情况在今天仍然发生，绝大多数医生只会给你开一张处方，或者他们会给你开两张处方。

That's not what most people want.

这不是大多数人想要的。

Sometimes it is, and I do it, and sometimes it is.

有时是这样，我就这样做，有时是这样。

There are so many other tools that we can use.

我们可以使用很多其他工具。

When I help people feel better, first, why I've been successful, and I work with people on this planet, whether they're athletes, the best athletes, celebrities, the royal family, you name it, I'm so privileged, it's because they trust me.

当我帮助人们感觉更好时，首先，为什么我会成功，我与这个星球上的人们一起工作，无论他们是运动员、最好的运动员、名人、皇室，凡是你能想到的，我都很荣幸，因为他们信任我。

That trust is really important.

这种信任真的很重要。

I take that really seriously.

我非常认真地对待这一点。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思吗？

Tying it back in is, we've lost a lot of that with the pandemic.

归根结底，我们在大流行中失去了很多。

It's actually come to the forefront.

它实际上已经走到了最前沿。

That's why I want to help people feel better first.

这就是为什么我想首先帮助人们感觉更好。

The traditional model of medicine is just get a diagnosis, write a prescription.

传统的医学模式只是得到诊断，开出处方。

If that prescription doesn't work, write another prescription.

如果该处方不起作用，请开出另一个处方。

Yes, there's a time and place for that, but there's also a time and place for just helping people-- it only works when people value themselves enough.

是的，这样做有时间和地点，但帮助别人也有时间和地点——只有当人们足够重视自己时，它才有效。

Like we were talking, I can tie this back to weight loss.

正如我们所说，我可以将其与减肥联系起来。

Why do people have such trouble losing weight?

为什么人们减肥如此困难？

I would argue that most people don't value themselves enough to actually care enough to make the hard disciplinary choices in their life, to get away from emotionally eating.

我认为，大多数人并没有足够重视自己，以至于没有真正关心自己在生活中做出艰难的纪律选择，从而摆脱情绪化饮食。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思吗？

To do the right things that they--

做正确的事情，他们——

Actually, it's going to be a struggle to get the right food for themselves, get away from processed foods, to be disciplined, to go to the gym on a regular basis.

事实上，要为自己找到合适的食物、远离加工食品、遵守纪律、定期去健身房，这将是一场斗争。

They don't have the right people that they trust.

他们没有值得信任的合适人选。

This is where you've been such a gift.

这就是你的恩赐。

Tremendous gift.

很棒的礼物。

Andrew: Thank you for the kind words.

安德鲁：谢谢你的客气话。

The birth of the podcast did take place during the pandemic, and in large part because I saw everybody getting very anxious.

播客的诞生确实是在大流行期间发生的，很大程度上是因为我看到每个人都变得非常焦虑。

Their circadian rhythms disrupted.

他们的昼夜节律被打乱。

Those were focuses of my laboratory.

这些是我实验室的重点。

Frankly, when I was a postdoc and graduate student, but especially as I got a little older in my years, I couldn't believe that-- I was reading these papers about how important morning sunlight is and all these things.

坦率地说，当我还是一名博士后和研究生时，尤其是随着年龄的增长，我简直不敢相信——我正在阅读这些关于早晨阳光有多么重要以及所有这些事情的论文。

Then my colleagues were all getting sick and dying around me or getting what we call the tenured look, where they show up, start their job, and five years later, they look like they've aged 25 years.

然后我的同事们在我身边都得病、快要死了，或者出现了我们所说的终身职位，他们出现在那里，开始他们的工作，五年后，他们看起来就像老了 25 岁。

I realized that I wanted to avoid that.

我意识到我想避免这种情况。

I've always just enjoyed learning and sharing science and health tools.

我一直很喜欢学习和分享科学和健康工具。

Thank you for the kind words.

谢谢你的客气话。

I've certainly been both astonished and positively amazed in the ways that the pandemic and the post-pandemic years-- I like to think we're in the post-pandemic years.

我当然对大流行和大流行后几年的方式感到惊讶和惊讶——我喜欢认为我们正处于大流行后几年。

Craig: I do too.

克雷格：我也是。

Andrew: I think we can safely say that.

安德鲁：我想我们可以有把握地说。

Now, how they've drawn people's attention to this idea that they need to take agency into their own healthcare.

现在，他们如何吸引人们注意他们需要将代理纳入自己的医疗保健这一想法。

No one, no pill, potion, injection, et cetera, can replace good behaviors.

任何人、任何药丸、药水、注射剂等等都无法取代良好的行为。

Pills, potions, and injections can potentially augment those good behaviors and get people going down the right path, which is what we're talking about today.

药丸、药剂和注射剂可能会增强这些良好行为，并让人们走上正确的道路，这就是我们今天所讨论的。

It's really a personal responsibility.

这确实是个人责任。

Craig: For sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: No one can give us a calmer mind.

安德鲁：没有人能让我们的头脑更加平静。

No one can give us a healthier body.

没有人能给我们一个更健康的身体。

No one can do that.

没有人能做到这一点。

It's interesting that some of the wealthiest people in the world, the new thing isn't for people to boast about their yachts or their properties.

有趣的是，对于世界上一些最富有的人来说，新事物并不是让人们吹嘘他们的游艇或财产。

It's about their health.

这关系到他们的健康。

It's about their vitality, their longevity, because that's the thing that, I suppose, in some sense, money can start to buy, but it doesn't require a ton of funds to take great care of one's body and mind.

这是关于他们的活力，他们的长寿，因为我想，从某种意义上来说，这是金钱可以买到的东西，但它不需要大量的资金来照顾一个人的身体和心灵。

Craig: It doesn't.

克雷格：没有。

What I've learned, and I've had to learn this over time, and I think the wisdom is-- and this is why it's even more challenging, because I think people go on social media, and they listen to podcasts and they listen to influencers, and a lot of the messages is additive.

我所学到的，我必须随着时间的推移学习这一点，我认为智慧是——这就是为什么它更具挑战性，因为我认为人们使用社交媒体，他们听播客，他们听有影响力的人，很多信息都是附加的。

If you're not doing a high-intensity workout every day and then doing sauna for X amount of time and then cold plunge and all this kind of dieting, you're not doing it well.

如果你没有每天进行高强度锻炼，然后桑拿 X 时间，然后进行冷水浴和所有这些节食，那么你就做得不好。

I know that stress of that is cumulative to people.

我知道人们的压力是累积的。

What I've learned, and I have a really good friend, probably the most affluent, successful, but also the most generous and smartest person I know, who lives on the Big Island, and he says to me, which is worth repeating here, I look for every opportunity to surrender.

我所学到的，我有一个非常好的朋友，他可能是我认识的最富有、最成功的人，也是最慷慨、最聪明的人，他住在大岛上，他对我说，值得在这里重复一遍，我寻找每一个投降的机会。

It is that surrender to people who you can trust to guide you.

这就是向那些你可以信任并指导你的人屈服。

You don't have to be the quarterback of everything.

你不必成为所有事情的四分卫。

That takes off the pressure.

这样就减轻了压力。

I think finding, it's not always about adding, it's actually creating space for us to just be in that flow.

我认为发现，并不总是关于添加，它实际上是为我们创造空间，让我们融入其中。

I know you've talked about this a lot, that active rest place where it's not about being super focused, and it's not about just going to sleep, but almost the best parts of our day is when we're in that flow state where things just click.

我知道你已经谈论过很多次了，积极的休息场所不是要高度集中注意力，也不是只是去睡觉，但几乎一天中最好的部分是当我们处于心流状态时，事情就会发生。

To me, helping people with those types of times and figuring that out is the most valuable.

对我来说，帮助人们度过这些时期并弄清楚这一点是最有价值的。

I don't think people talk about that enough.

我认为人们对此谈论得还不够。

I appreciate that you do a lot.

我很感激你做了很多事情。

Andrew: I appreciate that you're bringing up this notion that just stacking more and more behaviors, you got to crush a workout and do sauna, that is not the message.

安德鲁：我很欣赏你提出这样的想法，即只要堆积越来越多的行为，你就必须坚持锻炼并洗桑拿，这不是信息。

Sometimes we get teased, and there's some good comedy that takes on me that make me chuckle now and again about that, but that's not that the approach.

有时我们会被取笑，有一些精彩的喜剧让我时不时地为此发笑，但这不是方法。

Craig: I know it's not.

克雷格：我知道不是。

Andrew: These are tools that people can-- It's a buffet.

安德鲁：这些是人们可以使用的工具——这是自助餐。

I think most everyone agrees that sleep is key.

我想大多数人都同意睡眠是关键。

Craig: For sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: Most everyone agrees that exercise is key, nutrition is key, great social connection is key.

安德鲁：大多数人都同意锻炼是关键，营养是关键，良好的社交关系是关键。

I want to make sure that we circle back to this, when it comes to the peptides, it seems that one of your approaches, if I may, is to raise the tide so that the boat can get out to sea.

我想确保我们回到这一点，当谈到肽时，如果可以的话，似乎你的方法之一是提高潮水，以便船可以出海。

We were talking about these growth hormone secretagogues.

我们正在谈论这些生长激素促分泌素。

We covered GHRP-6, which is the one that stimulates the appetite.

我们介绍了 GHRP-6，它是一种刺激食欲的物质。

That's probably going to be a niche case condition that people would want to use that.

这可能是人们想要使用它的一个特殊情况。

Ipamorelin, tesamorelin, and sermorelin, I get a lot of questions about, is it MK-677?

我收到很多关于伊帕莫林、特沙莫林和舍莫林的问题，它是 MK-677 吗？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: What in the world is MK-677?

安德鲁：MK-677 到底是什么？

It sounds like a weapon.

听起来像是武器。

Craig: It does.

克雷格：确实如此。

I think of it just like GHRP-6, however, it's absorbed well orally, so it's basically the same.

我认为它就像GHRP-6一样，但是口服吸收很好，所以基本上是一样的。

I see it working this very similarly.

我认为它的工作原理非常相似。

Andrew: To GHRP-6?

安德鲁：去 GHRP-6？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: It stimulates appetite?

安德鲁：它能刺激食欲吗？

Craig: It does.

克雷格：确实如此。

Andrew: It can stimulate cortisol, prolactin?

安德鲁：它可以刺激皮质醇、催乳素吗？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: It sounds like a not good situation for most people.

安德鲁：对于大多数人来说，这听起来不太好。

Craig: Not for most people, although-- let me give you an example where-- I have a client, very successful guy, and he's been on testosterone.

克雷格：对大多数人来说不是这样——让我举个例子——我有一个客户，非常成功的人，他一直在服用睾丸激素。

He's doing all the things.

他正在做所有的事情。

He's in his early 60s.

他 60 岁出头。

He's working out well.

他锻炼得很好。

He eats well, super well, all these things.

他吃得很好，非常好，所有这些东西。

He can't put on muscle mass well.

他不能很好地增加肌肉质量。

Actually, as people get older, that does become an issue for a lot of people is maintaining healthy muscle mass.

事实上，随着人们年龄的增长，保持健康的肌肉质量确实成为很多人的一个问题。

MK-677, before it was taken off, the compound list by the FDA, it's another one that was included.

MK-677，在被取消之前，是 FDA 的化合物清单，它是另一个被列入的化合物。

Andrew: Another acronym, take it out by the FDA acronym?

安德鲁：另一个缩写词，用 FDA 缩写词去掉？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

You can take it orally, which again removes the stigma or burden of having to do a shot, and you will increase your appetite.

您可以口服它，这再次消除了必须注射的耻辱或负担，并且您会增加食欲。

That actually is a very useful agent metabolically for people as they get older.

这对于人们随着年龄的增长实际上是一种非常有用的代谢剂。

I know this, my kind of approach with this, both personally and professionally, is I try everything I can.

我知道这一点，无论是个人还是职业，我的做法都是尽我所能。

I remember MK-677, I took at bedtime, and it was an hour later, I was in a dead sleep.

我记得MK-677，我在睡前服用，一个小时后，我陷入了沉睡。

I woke up, and I had to go eat.

我醒了，我得去吃饭了。

Andrew: It sounds like puberty.

安德鲁：听起来就像青春期。

Craig: It was.

克雷格：是的。

I was like, "What is going on?

我当时想，“发生了什么事？

I didn't totally understand.

我完全不明白。

I was like, "What?

我当时想，“什么？

Oh, I took that cap-- Oh my gosh, I should never have taken it right before bed." I had to go up and eat, and destroyed my sleep that night.

哦，我拿走了那顶帽子——哦，天哪，我绝对不应该在睡觉前拿走它。”我不得不上去吃饭，那天晚上我的睡眠就被破坏了。

I learned, and I'll always learn, and I'm grateful for it, but don't take that one at bedtime.

我学会了，而且我将永远学习，我对此心怀感激，但不要在睡前服用它。

It absolutely will stimulate your appetite.

绝对会刺激你的食欲。

Andrew: Which are the growth hormone secretagogues that your more typical patients, who don't want to stimulate appetite, both male and female patients prefer?

安德鲁：您的那些不想刺激食欲的典型患者，男性和女性患者都喜欢哪些生长激素促分泌剂？

What are you compounding for them?

你为他们配制什么？

Craig: A tesamorelin, I don't see any appetite stimulation from that.

克雷格：一种泰沙莫林，我没有看到它有任何食欲刺激作用。

Hexarelin, we haven't talked about that.

海沙瑞林，我们还没有讨论过这个。

I don't really see--

我实在看不出来——

Andrew: Tell us about Hexarelin.

安德鲁：给我们介绍一下海沙瑞林吧。

Craig: Hexarelin, I think it is more, again, if we talk about the flavor of these peptides, is how I look at it in my head, is more of the energy, endurance, growth hormone-releasing peptides.

克雷格：海沙瑞林，我认为更多的是，如果我们谈论这些肽的味道，我在脑海中是如何看待它的，更多的是能量、耐力、生长激素释放肽。

I like it for people to use it in the morning.

我喜欢人们早上使用它。

They get a nice burst of energy.

他们得到了很好的能量爆发。

They feel it's a clean energy.

他们认为这是一种清洁能源。

It's not a caffeinated energy or jittery or anything like that, and it's good for more endurance-type.

它不是一种含咖啡因的能量或紧张或类似的东西，而且它对耐力型的人有好处。

Athletics are working out.

田径运动正在锻炼。

People in that field of competition or whatever, I think hexarelin's a great choice.

对于那些从事竞赛或其他领域的人来说，我认为海沙瑞林是一个不错的选择。

Andrew: Does not spike appetite?

安德鲁：不会刺激食欲吗？

Craig: I have not seen that.

克雷格：我还没有看到。

Andrew: This is taken first thing in the morning, you get an additional growth hormone release?

安德鲁：这是早上第一件事，你会释放额外的生长激素吗？

Craig: Yes, you do in the early mornings when you're waking up.

克雷格：是的，你在清晨醒来时会这样做。

Andrew: You used to compound it with CJC-1295 to get the other pathways involved that can help, but now CJC has been taken out-

Andrew：你曾经将它与 CJC-1295 混合以获得其他可以提供帮助的途径，但现在 CJC 已被取出-

Craig: Correct.

克雷格：正确。

Andrew: -by the FDA.

安德鲁：-FDA。

Craig: Right, but hexarelin still exists.

克雷格：是的，但海沙瑞林仍然存在。

That can be compounded.

这可以复合。

Andrew: What's the dosage on hexarelin that you typically prescribe?

安德鲁：您通常开的海沙瑞林剂量是多少？

Craig: A 100 micrograms.

克雷格：100微克。

It's the same as these other, like ipamorelin, GHRP-6, a 100 micrograms.

它与其他药物相同，如伊帕瑞林、GHRP-6，100 微克。

The two that are different would be tesamorelin, ideal dose 2 milligrams per dose, which is 2,000 micrograms, so quite different.

两种不同的是tesamorelin，理想剂量是每剂2毫克，也就是2000微克，所以有很大不同。

Then sermorelin has actually a very broad dosing range anywhere from 200 micrograms.

那么舍莫林实际上有一个非常宽的剂量范围，从 200 微克不等。

I've used it up to 3,000 micrograms-

我已经用了3000微克了-

Andrew: Whoa.

安德鲁：哇哦。

Craig: -depending on your goals.

克雷格：-取决于你的目标。

Andrew: We were talking about coenzyme Q10 and the Kreb cycle, and I forgot to close the hatch on supplements more broadly.

Andrew：我们正在谈论辅酶 Q10 和克雷布循环，但我忘记了更广泛地讨论补充剂。

Again, it doesn't sound like you're a big fan of taking lots of pills and capsules.

再说一次，听起来您并不热衷于服用大量药片和胶囊。

I think some people will take that as a relief.

我想有些人会认为这是一种解脱。

I think a lot of people get tired of taking a lot of pills.

我认为很多人厌倦了服用大量药物。

Some people don't like to do that.

有些人不喜欢这样做。

What are some of the other things that you do take besides coenzyme Q10?

除了辅酶 Q10 之外，您还服用哪些其他药物？

Earlier we were talking about methylated vitamins of different types.

之前我们讨论过不同类型的甲基化维生素。

Craig: Methylated B vitamins.

克雷格：甲基化 B 族维生素。

Andrew: This is becoming increasingly popular.

安德鲁：这越来越流行。

We're starting to hear more about methylation and methylated compounds.

我们开始听到更多有关甲基化和甲基化化合物的信息。

Could you educate us on methylated B vitamins?

您能给我们介绍一下甲基化 B 族维生素吗？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

I think people are familiar with it.

我认为人们对此很熟悉。

Some people are talking on podcasts about the MTHFR SNP.

有些人在播客上谈论 MTHFR SNP。

Andrew: We've not talked about that in this podcast, so it'd be nice to.

安德鲁：我们还没有在这个播客中讨论过这个问题，所以如果能讨论一下就好了。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

A SNP is a single-nucleotide polymorphism, meaning that genetically things don't flow as easily.

SNP 是一种单核苷酸多态性，这意味着遗传因素不会轻易流动。

Again, that's an oversimplification.

再说一遍，这过于简单化了。

You could be homozygous for that, meaning you have both genes influencing you more.

你可能是纯合子，这意味着你的两个基因对你的影响更大。

You could be heterozygous, meaning it's just one gene, meaning--

你可能是杂合子，这意味着它只是一个基因，也就是说——

Andrew: One copy from one parent or homozygous, copy from each parent.

安德鲁：来自父母一方的一份副本或纯合子，来自父母双方的一份副本。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

You say it way better than I did.

你说的比我说的好多了

What that means is and where we see that reflected, homocysteine is a marker we use, a lab marker we use.

这意味着，我们看到的反映是，同型半胱氨酸是我们使用的标记物，是我们使用的实验室标记物。

It's an emerging marker for looking at one's cardiovascular risk profile.

它是一种用于观察心血管风险状况的新兴标记。

If one's got an elevated homocysteine, and elevated by some labs is going to be greater than seven by most labs greater than nine, means you're at an increased risk.

如果一个人的同型半胱氨酸升高，并且某些实验室的升高值将大于七，而大多数实验室的升高值将大于九，则意味着您的风险增加。

What that is I don't remember, but you're in increased risk of having a cardiovascular event, which would mean a heart attack or stroke.

我不记得那是什么，但您发生心血管事件的风险增加，这意味着心脏病发作或中风。

We want to lower that number.

我们想降低这个数字。

The best way to lower that number is taking ample methylated B vitamins.

降低这一数字的最佳方法是服用充足的甲基化 B 族维生素。

Methylated means you're adding a methyl group.

甲基化意味着您添加了甲基。

Methyl B12, methylfolate, trimethylglycine, methionine.

甲基 B12、甲基叶酸、三甲基甘氨酸、蛋氨酸。

These are all methylation donors, which just metabolically and, through your detoxification pathways in your liver is going to help you lower that homocysteine.

这些都是甲基化供体，它们只是通过代谢以及肝脏的解毒途径来帮助您降低同型半胱氨酸。

I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but most people-- if you're going to take a B vitamin, take a methylated B vitamin because then you overcome-- again, we've done a lot of MTHFR testing.

我确信事情比这更复杂，但大多数人 - 如果你要服用 B 族维生素，就服用甲基化 B 族维生素，因为这样你就克服了 - 再次，我们已经做了很多 MTHFR 测试。

I don't think it's as profound as some people make it out to be like it's going to change their life.

我认为这并不像有些人想象的那么深刻，就像它会改变他们的生活一样。

I've never seen that.

我从来没有见过这样的情况。

Can it help you?

它可以帮助你吗？

Sure, but you're going to overcome it by taking sufficient methylated B vitamins anyway.

当然可以，但无论如何，您可以通过服用足够的甲基化 B 族维生素来克服它。

Andrew: Again, those methylated B vitamins are methylated B12--

安德鲁：再说一遍，那些甲基化 B 族维生素是甲基化 B12——

Craig: B12, folate.

克雷格：B12、叶酸。

There's a methylated B6 and then trimethylglycine.

先是甲基化 B6，然后是三甲基甘氨酸。

TMG is a good compound.

TMG 是一种很好的化合物。

Methionine is a good methyl donors, amino acid.

蛋氨酸是一种良好的甲基供体氨基酸。

Andrew: Are these taken in the morning or in the afternoon?

安德鲁：这些是早上拍的还是下午拍的？

Craig: I like taking them in the morning.

克雷格：我喜欢早上服用。

Although, I think, for people to play around with it, because I've certainly seen it, people get that 3:00 PM kind of slumber as opposed to reaching for the coffee or the donut, take some more methylated B vitamins and see what happens.

不过，我认为，对于人们来说，因为我确实见过这样的情况，人们会在下午 3:00 入睡，而不是去喝咖啡或吃甜甜圈，服用一些更多的甲基化 B 族维生素，看看会发生什么。

Andrew: Or just the coffee.

安德鲁：或者只是咖啡。

No, sorry.

不，抱歉。

You're not supposed to drink caffeine too late in the day.

你不应该在一天太晚的时候喝咖啡因。

Lately, what I find-- I don't know if this is wrong to bring up on this podcast, but I can't help myself.

最近，我发现——我不知道在这个播客上提出这个是否错误，但我无法控制自己。

I love yerba mate in the morning and afternoon.

我喜欢早上和下午喝马黛茶。

Coffee in the morning now makes me feel nauseous.

现在早上喝咖啡让我感到恶心。

I don't know-

我不知道-

Craig: Wow.

克雷格：哇。

Andrew: -if I'm pregnant or something, but it makes me feel-

安德鲁：-如果我怀孕了或者什么的，但这让我感觉-

Craig: Probably not pregnant.

克雷格：可能没有怀孕。

Andrew: -nauseous pregnant.

安德鲁：-恶心的怀孕了。

I love the taste of coffee in the afternoon.

我喜欢午后咖啡的味道。

This is like a midlife thing.

这就像中年的事情。

I don't know what it is.

我不知道那是什么。

Now in the afternoon, around 1:00 or 2:00 PM, even just the smallest amount of coffee, it's like the most delicious thing I've ever tasted.

现在在下午，大约下午 1:00 或 2:00，即使只是最少量的咖啡，也像是我尝过的最美味的东西。

Craig: I love coffee.

克雷格：我喜欢咖啡。

Andrew: It can mess with your sleep too late in the day, but that's a perfect segue to talk about sleep.

安德鲁：一天太晚可能会扰乱你的睡眠，但这是谈论睡眠的完美过渡。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: One thing that I know you've done a lot of work on and with are these peptides that can improve sleep, not just by virtue of enhancing growth hormone release but-- I'll just be very direct.

安德鲁：我知道您已经做了大量工作的一件事是，这些肽可以改善睡眠，不仅仅是通过增强生长激素的释放，而且 - 我会非常直接。

For the last, gosh, four to six months, I've had the opportunity to try Pinealon and injectable Pinealon combined with glycine.

最后，天哪，四到六个月，我有机会尝试松果酮和注射松果酮与甘氨酸的组合。

Goodness gracious, in the positive sense of the goodness gracious, you're from the South so I don't know where people have it, never before have I found something that can improve the amount of rapid eye movement sleep that I get.

天哪，从天哪的积极意义上来说，你来自南方，所以我不知道哪里有人有它，我以前从未找到过可以改善我获得的快速眼动睡眠量的东西。

Besides rapid eye movement, sleep deprivation.

除了快速眼球运动之外，睡眠不足。

Sleep deprivation, the next night, you'll get a compensatory effect.

睡眠不足，第二天晚上，你就会得到补偿效果。

That's not the way to increase your REM sleep, folks.

伙计们，这不是增加快速眼动睡眠的方法。

There are a lot of things like high-intensity exercise that improve my slow-wave deep sleep.

有很多事情可以改善我的慢波深度睡眠，比如高强度运动。

Cold plunge early in the day improves slow-wave deep sleep.

清晨的冷水浴可以改善慢波深度睡眠。

There have been a few other things.

还有其他一些事情。

With Pinealon-- by the way, I'm not doing this every night.

顺便说一下，对于 Pinealon，我不会每晚都这样做。

I do this occasionally.

我偶尔这样做。

I ran a little experiment, and I track my sleep using the sleep tracker that's in Eight Sleep.

我进行了一个小实验，并使用“八睡眠”中的睡眠追踪器来追踪我的睡眠情况。

It's doubling the amount of rapid eye movement sleep that I'm getting, doubling, from an hour to two hours or from an hour and 30 minutes.

它使我的快速动眼睡眠时间加倍，从一小时增加到两小时，或者从一小时三十分钟增加一倍。

Craig: Tremendous.

克雷格：太棒了。

Andrew: Nearly three hours.

安德鲁：将近三个小时。

I posted a picture of a sleep score with some rapid eye movement sleep.

我发布了一张睡眠分数的照片，其中包含一些快速眼动睡眠。

It's not something I typically do.

这不是我通常做的事情。

Even the most competitive of biohackers, Brian Johnson was like, "Oh, nice sleep score." Now, he touts a sleep score that's perfect every night for every night.

即使是最具竞争力的生物黑客，布莱恩·约翰逊也会说，“哦，睡眠成绩很好。”现在，他宣称每晚的睡眠分数都是完美的。

I'm poking at Brian because we like to poke back and forth.

我在戳布莱恩，因为我们喜欢来回戳戳。

We're friendly with one another.

我们彼此很友好。

The point being that Pinealon is a remarkable way to increase rapid eye movement sleep.

重点是松果酮是增加快速眼动睡眠的绝佳方法。

I have very little knowledge about it, except that my understanding is that it might stimulate some regeneration or stimulation of the pinealocytes of the pineal.

我对此知之甚少，只是我的理解是它可能会刺激松果体的松果体细胞的一些再生或刺激。

Craig: That's exactly it.

克雷格：正是这样。

You've nailed it.

你已经成功了。

I remember when you messaged me after starting it, you were like, "This is amazing."

我记得当你开始后给我发消息时，你说，“这太棒了。”

Andrew: It's amazing.

安德鲁：太棒了。

Craig: Yes, you were saying it's amazing.

克雷格：是的，你说这太棒了。

Andrew: It's amazing.

安德鲁：太棒了。

I hope the FDA doesn't nuke it as a consequence of this conversation.

我希望 FDA 不会因为这次谈话而对其进行核武器攻击。

Craig: It's still available.

克雷格：它仍然可用。

Yes, yes.

是的，是的。

Craig: I hope so too.

克雷格：我也希望如此。

Your response is what we see with our other patients, who are loving-- I think that combination with glycine, I'm a big fan of glycine, and injecting it seems to work really well.

您的反应是我们在其他患者身上看到的，他们很喜欢——我认为与甘氨酸结合，我是甘氨酸的忠实粉丝，注射它似乎效果很好。

Back to your question about Pinealon.

回到你关于Pinealon的问题。

It's one of the smallest peptides, but I think it's one of the most profound.

它是最小的肽之一，但我认为它是最深刻的肽之一。

We used to combine it with Epitalon, the Russian peptide that was used for circadian rhythm.

我们曾经将它与 Epitalon 结合使用，Epitalon 是一种用于昼夜节律的俄罗斯肽。

Andrew: For my understanding, Epitalon also, it's involved in DNA repair-

Andrew：据我了解，Epitalon 也参与 DNA 修复——

Craig: It is.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: -and has been explored in animal studies for trying to offset vision loss in some retinal degenerative conditions.

安德鲁：-并且已经在动物研究中进行了探索，试图抵消某些视网膜退行性疾病中的视力丧失。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Again, put on the do-not-compound list with all the others.

再次，与所有其他人一起列入禁止复合名单。

Andrew: Oh, that's a shame.

安德鲁：噢，真遗憾。

Craig: That's gone.

克雷格：那已经过去了。

Pinealon stays and remains.

松果树一直存在，一直存在。

Your response to it and experience with it has been very commonplace for working with patients and seeing that.

在与患者一起工作并看到这一点时，您对此的反应和经验是非常常见的。

I think there's a circadian rhythm aspect with it as well and helping with melatonin production.

我认为这也与昼夜节律有关，有助于褪黑激素的产生。

Obviously, that comes from the pineal gland.

显然，那来自松果体。

I'm postulating.

我假设。

I think there's more to the pineal gland than we understand.

我认为松果体的作用比我们理解的要多。

Andrew: Yes, it makes things other than melatonin.

安德鲁：是的，它会产生褪黑激素以外的物质。

That's for sure.

这是肯定的。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

I think it's elusive, but I think there's something to it.

我认为这是难以捉摸的，但我认为其中有一些东西。

I say that, having used a lot of Pinealon with people over the years and having very similar responses, which is awesome.

我这么说，多年来我与人们一起使用过很多松果，并且得到了非常相似的反应，这真是太棒了。

Everyone knows, like you said, when you sleep better, your entire day is better.

正如您所说，每个人都知道，当您睡得更好时，您的一整天都会更好。

When you sleep better, your life is better, exponentially better.

当你睡得更好时，你的生活就会更好，而且会成倍地更好。

Andrew: I think of the millions of people that suffer from lack of rapid eye movement sleep, the lack of neuroplasticity that can be the consequence of that, the lack of healthy removal of emotional labels on previous day memories, that is the consequence of REM deprivation.

安德鲁：我想到数以百万计的人缺乏快速眼动睡眠，其后果可能是缺乏神经可塑性，无法健康地去除前一天记忆中的情感标签，这就是快速眼动睡眠剥夺的后果。

The enormous impact on depression rates, the enormous impact on-- pretty much every mental health issue is made worse by lack of REM sleep.

缺乏快速眼动睡眠对抑郁症发病率产生巨大影响，几乎所有心理健康问题都会变得更糟。

I say or I raise this conversation about Pinealon with a little bit of trepidation because I do worry that, on the one hand, people will see it as a miracle drug.

我说或提起有关松果酮的话题有点惶恐，因为我确实担心，一方面，人们会把它视为一种神奇的药物。

That's not what we're talking about.

这不是我们要讨论的。

It has this effect, but at the same time, I'll just say that there's another drug that was released recently.

它有这个作用，但与此同时，我只想说最近还有另一种药物上市。

This is an FDA-approved drug in the category of sleep drugs called the DORAs.

这是一种 FDA 批准的睡眠药物类别药物，称为 DORA。

It works a little differently.

它的工作原理有点不同。

It doesn't push on the sleepiness system, so to speak.

可以这么说，它不会刺激困倦系统。

It suppresses the wakefulness system.

它抑制觉醒系统。

The idea is that it's supposed to increase REM sleep.

这个想法是它应该增加快速眼动睡眠。

It goes by name Quviviq and things like that.

它的名字是 Quviviq 之类的。

I tried it.

我试过了。

It was a total disaster for me.

这对我来说完全是一场灾难。

I fell asleep, woke up three hours later, couldn't fall back asleep.

我睡着了，三个小时后醒来，再也睡不着了。

I tried it.

我试过了。

It was lower dosage.

这是较低的剂量。

It's extremely expensive as well.

它也非常昂贵。

I'm going to piss off whoever makes Quviviq.

我会激怒任何制作 Quviviq 的人。

I forget who makes it.

我忘记是谁做的了。

It was a complete disaster for me.

这对我来说完全是一场灾难。

Pinealon has been incredible.

松果树真是令人难以置信。

Here's what's really interesting about it to me, is that it seems to improve my sleep on the nights when I don't take it, which makes total sense if it indeed is providing some regeneration of the pineal sites that make melatonin and other--

这对我来说真正有趣的是，当我不服用它时，它似乎可以改善我晚上的睡眠，如果它确实提供了松果体部位的一些再生，从而产生褪黑激素和其他激素，那么这是完全有道理的--

Craig: That makes sense to me.

克雷格：这对我来说很有意义。

Andrew: Here we're talking about something that one could potentially pulse with now and again-

安德鲁：我们在这里谈论的是人们可能会时不时地感到脉动的事情——

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: -and get improvement in sleep every night.

安德鲁：-每天晚上的睡眠都得到改善。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: Wild.

安德鲁：狂野。

Craig: I think it's worth noting that you also take care of your health on many other aspects, and that's probably why you were sensitive to it, but it worked really well for you.

克雷格：我认为值得注意的是，您还在许多其他方面照顾自己的健康，这可能就是您对此敏感的原因，但它对您来说非常有效。

Some other people, it's going to take longer, if they're having to work on their diet and having to work on their exercise and having to work on their thought patterns.

对于其他一些人来说，如果他们必须在饮食方面下功夫，必须在锻炼方面下功夫，并且必须在他们的思维模式上下功夫，那么他们将需要更长的时间。

We don't talk about that enough, having positive thoughts.

我们谈论得还不够，没有积极的想法。

Yes, it's so safe.

是的，它是如此安全。

I never ever have seen a side effect or negative side effect from Pinealon.

我从未见过松果酮的副作用或负面副作用。

Your response has been uniform.

你们的反应是一致的。

People don't always get there as quickly, but people get there with their sleep.

人们并不总是能那么快到达那里，但人们可以通过睡眠到达那里。

Andrew: Love it.

安德鲁：喜欢。

You compound it with glycine?

你把它与甘氨酸混合吗？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: What's the rationale there?

安德鲁：其中的理由是什么？

Craig: I really like glycine as an inhibitory neurotransmitter.

克雷格：我真的很喜欢甘氨酸作为抑制性神经递质。

It's calming to the nervous system.

它可以镇静神经系统。

Over the years, I tend to start with that when people are having trouble settling down at night.

多年来，当人们在晚上难以安定下来时，我倾向于从这个开始。

Not that it's going to sedate people, but just transitioning from being active 8:00 PM, 9:00 PM, wanting to settle down.

并不是说它会让人们镇静下来，而是只是从晚上 8:00、晚上 9:00 的活跃状态过渡到想要安定下来。

Glycine in pretty large dosages, at least most people think they are, starting with 3,000 or 5,000 milligrams orally kind of tones down the nervous system.

甘氨酸的剂量相当大，至少大多数人认为是这样，从口服 3,000 或 5,000 毫克开始，可以减弱神经系统的活力。

People relax a little bit, and then they tend to sleep better from it.

人们放松一点，然后他们往往会睡得更好。

Then you can dial it up.

然后就可以拨号了。

I've used very large dosages for it.

我已经使用了非常大的剂量。

The other advantage of glycine is it works on phase 2 liver detoxification, which is amino acid conjugation.

甘氨酸的另一个优点是它作用于第二阶段肝脏解毒，即氨基酸结合。

You're helping your liver work better.

您正在帮助您的肝脏更好地工作。

In a world where we're being exposed with all these toxic things from glyphosate to heavy metals, we all need to do some sort of liver mitigation strategies.

在我们接触从草甘膦到重金属等所有有毒物质的世界中，我们都需要采取某种肝脏缓解策略。

Glycine is one of the best.

甘氨酸是最好的之一。

Andrew: Wow.

安德鲁：哇。

Interesting.

有趣。

We haven't done an episode of this podcast yet on heavy metals, but I'm very interested in this because many people write to me asking about metal toxicity and about mold toxicity.

我们还没有制作关于重金属的播客节目，但我对此非常感兴趣，因为很多人写信给我询问金属毒性和霉菌毒性。

Craig: Molds become super big.

克雷格：模具变得超级大。

Big.

大。

It's very prevalent, and it seems the more we talk about it-- We've seen it for years and years and years.

它非常普遍，而且似乎我们谈论得越多——我们已经看到它很多年了。

It makes sense.

这是有道理的。

If you think about the amount of airplanes flying above us every day, pouring down heavy metals.

如果你想想每天有多少架飞机飞过我们的上空，倾泻着重金属。

It's massive.

它是巨大的。

It's in the air, it's in the water, it's in the soil.

它在空气中、在水中、在土壤中。

You talk about glyphosate or Roundup, same exact thing, so many chemicals, and it's challenging for us as humans.

你谈论草甘膦或农达，同样的东西，这么多的化学物质，这对我们人类来说是一个挑战。

The way I break it down, not to get too far off topic, is we're water soluble organisms living in a fat soluble world.

为了避免偏离主题太远，我分解它的方式是，我们是生活在脂溶性世界中的水溶性生物体。

It's the job of our liver essentially to take the fat-soluble stuff, make it water soluble so we can excrete it.

我们肝脏的工作本质上是吸收脂溶性物质，使其溶于水，以便我们可以将其排出体外。

That takes place in the liver in two phases.

这在肝脏中分两个阶段发生。

Phase 1, we're using the P450 enzyme.

第一阶段，我们使用 P450 酶。

It's like taking the trash, putting the trash in the trash can, putting it on the side of the road.

就像捡垃圾，把垃圾扔进垃圾桶，扔到路边一样。

You have phase 2, amino acid conjugation.

你有第二阶段，氨基酸结合。

The trash truck comes and picks up the trash.

垃圾车来了，把垃圾捡起来。

Very few things in nature induce phase 2 independent of phase 1, meaning most of us have trash piled up on the side of our road.

自然界中很少有东西会独立于第一阶段而引发第二阶段，这意味着我们大多数人的路边都堆满了垃圾。

Those things are the polyphenols, so things like the blues, the reds, the pigments.

这些东西就是多酚，比如蓝色、红色、色素。

That's why it's important to eat a wide variety of colors in your diet.

这就是为什么在饮食中吃多种颜色的食物很重要。

Matcha tea has a very strong inducing effect on phase 2 liver activity.

抹茶对2期肝脏活动有非常强的诱导作用。

Andrew: Is that right?

安德鲁：是吗？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: I need to develop a taste for matcha.

安德鲁：我需要培养对抹茶的兴趣。

I feel like it's kind of grainy.

我感觉它有点颗粒感。

Craig: It is and it's bitter, but bitter things tend to be, again, helping that phase 2.

克雷格：是的，而且很痛苦，但痛苦的事情往往会再次帮助第二阶段。

Glutathione helps phase 2.

谷胱甘肽有助于第二阶段。

We do a lot of that intravenously.

我们通过静脉注射做了很多这样的事情。

Then glycine is a wonderful agent for inducing phase 2, independent of phase 1.

那么甘氨酸是诱导第 2 相的绝佳试剂，与第 1 相无关。

The trouble is, I don't think people realize, most pharmaceuticals induce a P450 enzyme.

问题是，我认为人们没有意识到，大多数药物都会诱导 P450 酶。

A misconception is, well, if I'm just inducing one, I'm good.

一种误解是，好吧，如果我只是诱导一个，我就很好。

If you induce one, you induce them all.

如果你诱导其中之一，你就诱导了所有这些。

If you take any pharmaceutical, you're inducing your entire P450 system.

如果您服用任何药物，您就会诱导整个 P450 系统。

You're speeding it up, meaning you're putting more trash out on the side of the road.

你加快了速度，这意味着你在路边扔了更多垃圾。

If you look at the amount of things we're being exposed to outside of pharmaceuticals, it's mounting.

如果你看看我们接触到的药品以外的东西的数量，就会发现它正在增加。

It's crazy.

太疯狂了。

Andrew: When you say on the side of the road, you mean in the liver?

安德鲁：当你说在路边时，你的意思是在肝脏里？

Craig: That's what I'm saying.

克雷格：我就是这么说的。

I'm just using that as a metaphor.

我只是用它作为一个比喻。

Andrew: Yes.

安德鲁：是的。

You're talking about building up of debris, cellular debris with it, or metabolic debris within your body.

你说的是体内碎片、细胞碎片或代谢碎片的堆积。

Craig: Right.

克雷格：对。

The trash, again, very oversimplification, you need to speed up phase 2 to get the trash trucks come to pick up the trash so that you can then take that compound and excrete it in your stool and your urine, your sweat, your breath.

垃圾，再一次，非常简单化，你需要加快第二阶段的速度，让垃圾车来捡垃圾，这样你就可以服用这种化合物，并通过你的粪便、尿液、汗水和呼吸排出体外。

That's the only way it works.

这是唯一有效的方法。

It's not complicated per se, but I think there's a lot of misconceptions about it.

它本身并不复杂，但我认为对此有很多误解。

Andrew: When people take a peptide, that's injectable pineal and glycine, they're getting glycine, obviously.

安德鲁：当人们服用一种肽，即可注射的松果体和甘氨酸时，他们显然会得到甘氨酸。

Let's say somebody doesn't have access to you for whatever reason.

假设某人出于某种原因无法访问您。

There's a barrier to getting ahold of those peptides.

获取这些肽存在障碍。

Can people take glycine orally?

人们可以口服甘氨酸吗？

Craig: They can.

克雷格：他们可以。

Glycine's absorbed well orally.

甘氨酸口服吸收良好。

It has a really sweet taste.

它的味道真的很甜。

It's actually the smallest amino acid.

它实际上是最小的氨基酸。

A huge fan of it, we've been using it a long time.

我们是它的忠实粉丝，我们已经使用它很长时间了。

You can take big dosages of it such as--

你可以服用大剂量，例如——

Andrew: Very sick.

安德鲁：病得很重。

Craig: Again, my starting dose is usually 3 to 5 grams at bedtime.

克雷格：同样，我的起始剂量通常是睡前 3 到 5 克。

Andrew: Wow.

安德鲁：哇。

Craig: The way I do this, recommend it is, try that for a few nights in a row.

克雷格：我建议的做法是，连续几个晚上尝试这样做。

You're not noticing a thing?

你没注意到什么吗？

Double the dose.

加倍剂量。

Go to 10 grams, literally.

从字面上看，达到 10 克。

Most people at 10 grams of glycine will notice it.

大多数人在摄入 10 克甘氨酸时都会注意到这一点。

Again, it's not going to necessarily make you drowsy.

再说一次，它并不一定会让你昏昏欲睡。

You're not going to be sedated, but your nervous system's going to be toned down a little bit and help you fall asleep a little bit better.

你不会被注射镇静剂，但你的神经系统会稍微放松下来，帮助你更好地入睡。

Then while you sleep, where a lot of this detoxification process starts working, you're going to be more efficient in how your liver works.

然后，当您睡觉时，许多解毒过程开始发挥作用，您的肝脏会更有效地工作。

Everything ties together.

一切都联系在一起。

Andrew: I'm still a big fan of things like magnesium 3 and 8, apigenin, which is a chamomile derivative.

Andrew：我仍然非常喜欢镁 3 和镁 8、芹菜素（一种洋甘菊衍生物）。

I'll try glycine.

我会尝试甘氨酸。

I think a few years back I was using a little bit of glycine, but it was more like 1,000 milligrams, but now that it's in the injectable peptide, the Pinealon, I don't take it.

我想几年前我使用了一点甘氨酸，但它更像是 1,000 毫克，但现在它出现在可注射肽、Pinealon 中，我不再服用它。

Is there an oral form of Pinealon that works?

有有效的口服松果酮吗？

Craig: There is these bioregulator peptides, which were developed by this Russian scientist, last name Corvinson, I think.

克雷格：这些生物调节肽是由一位俄罗斯科学家开发的，我想他姓科文森。

Done a lot of research, actually.

确实做了很多研究。

There's published research about it.

有关于它的已发表的研究。

I think Pinealon is one of the ones that they say will survive the stomach acid and get through the gut and be absorbed.

我认为松果香是他们所说的能够在胃酸中存活并通过肠道并被吸收的物质之一。

I think that's true.

我认为这是真的。

We've always used it as injectable.

我们一直将其用作注射剂。

I tend to like injectable things for the bio-availability.

我倾向于喜欢可注射的东西，因为它具有生物利用度。

To your point, I think people can.

就你的观点而言，我认为人们可以。

Those are going to be harder and harder to find, actually.

事实上，这些将越来越难找到。

It's probably easier to find an injectable Pinealon than an oral one.

找到注射松果酮可能比口服松果酮更容易。

Andrew: Yes.

安德鲁：是的。

As we're talking about this, I'm realizing, unfortunately, just the way the internet works, that people are going to start, likely as a consequence of this conversation, will start selling Pinealon, but you need to know that you're actually getting Pinealon.

当我们谈论这个时，不幸的是，我意识到，就像互联网的运作方式一样，人们将开始，可能是这次谈话的结果，将开始销售松果仁，但你需要知道你实际上得到的是松果仁。

It's very-

这是非常-

Craig: Like anything.

克雷格：就像任何事情一样。

Andrew: -easy for somebody to just pop something up on-

安德鲁：-某人很容易弹出一些东西-

Craig: Totally.

克雷格：完全可以。

Andrew: -Amazon and sell it.

安德鲁：-亚马逊并出售它。

Craig: Totally.

克雷格：完全可以。

Andrew: Maybe they just throw some melatonine in there and call it Pinealon.

安德鲁：也许他们只是在里面放了一些褪黑激素并称之为松果酮。

There's a lot of BS stuff out there.

那里有很多 BS 的东西。

Craig: Tons.

克雷格：吨。

Andrew: This is why the compounding pharmacy component and working with a physician is so key.

安德鲁：这就是为什么配药部分和与医生合作如此重要。

Craig: Yes, and researching, making sure that what you're taking is legit.

克雷格：是的，并且要进行研究，确保您所服用的药物是合法的。

A lot of illegitimacy out there.

那里有很多非法行为。

Andrew: Do you think that pharmaceutical companies are going to move into these other peptides?

安德鲁：您认为制药公司会转向其他肽领域吗？

Certainly, ipamorelin for the reduction in visceral body fat, that's an FDA-approved drug, so is sermorelin, FDA-approved drug.

当然，用于减少内脏脂肪的伊帕瑞林是 FDA 批准的药物，舍莫林也是 FDA 批准的药物。

The GLP-1 agonist, FDA-approved drug.

GLP-1激动剂，FDA批准的药物。

The FDA is unlikely to pull those.

FDA 不太可能撤回这些。

They're a blockbuster, especially with GLP-1.

它们是重磅炸弹，尤其是 GLP-1。

They're making, not even a small fortune, but a large fortune.

他们赚的不是一笔小钱，而是一笔大钱。

Craig: Big money.

克雷格：一大笔钱。

The concerning part about the GLP-1, to me, is what we're starting to see, they've been able to be compounded because there was a shortage.

对我来说，关于 GLP-1 的令人担忧的部分是我们开始看到的，因为短缺，它们已经变得复杂。

The way it works with the compounding pharmacy is, because those are brand-named drugs, and they are not patented for the peptide, they're patented for the delivery system, which is the pen, which most people don't realize.

它与复方药房的合作方式是，因为这些是品牌药物，它们没有肽的专利，它们是输送系统的专利，也就是注射笔，大多数人没有意识到这一点。

They've been able to be compounded, and then way more affordable because they're compounded.

它们已经能够复利，并且因为它们是复利的而变得更加实惠。

There is rumors that the pharmaceutical companies now have supply back, they'll come back, and they will remove the ability to allow these peptides to be compounded, which means we'll have to stick to traditional dosages and people lose access, because they're going to be way more expensive.

有传言称，制药公司现在已经恢复了供应，他们会回来，并且他们将取消这些肽复合的能力，这意味着我们将不得不坚持传统剂量，人们将失去机会，因为它们会更加昂贵。

They are, if insurance doesn't cover it, $1,500 a month for most people.

如果保险不承保的话，对于大多数人来说每月 1,500 美元。

Andrew: Wow.

安德鲁：哇。

Craig: Very expensive.

克雷格：非常贵。

Andrew: That's a lot more.

安德鲁：还有很多。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: For a lot of people, that's rent and more.

安德鲁：对于很多人来说，这就是租金等等。

Craig: I'm hopeful that doesn't happen, but that's in the works.

克雷格：我希望这不会发生，但那是在进行中。

That's in the works, and that would be a huge shame.

这正在开发中，这将是一个巨大的耻辱。

Again, I'm not a pessimist by any means, I'm a perpetual optimist.

再说一次，我无论如何都不是悲观主义者，我是一个永远的乐观主义者。

We'll just make sure that it stays this way.

我们只会确保它保持这种状态。

Again, if it does happen, we'll get creative and go other routes as well.

同样，如果它确实发生，我们也会发挥创意并走其他路线。

Andrew: Earlier you mentioned stem cell therapies.

安德鲁：您之前提到过干细胞疗法。

Those are not FDA-approved in this country.

这些产品在该国尚未获得 FDA 批准。

Craig: They are actually.

克雷格：实际上是这样。

Andrew: Oh, sorry, my mistake.

安德鲁：哦，抱歉，我的错。

Craig: I think that using the term stem cell is a problem.

克雷格：我认为使用干细胞这个术语是一个问题。

If we use the term autologous cell, which would be PRP, it's basically the same thing.

如果我们使用术语“自体细胞”，即 PRP，它基本上是同一件事。

Andrew: Platelet-rich plasma.

安德鲁：富含血小板的血浆。

Craig: Right.

克雷格：对。

Andrew: They take your blood, they spin it down, they take the platelets Craig: Right.

安德鲁：他们抽取你的血液，将其离心，抽取血小板 克雷格：对。

The ruling, as I understand it, as long as you're taking a cell from you, and you give it back within four hours, then that is allowed under the FDA guidelines.

据我了解，这项裁决是，只要你从自己身上取出一个细胞，并在四小时内归还，那么这是 FDA 指导方针允许的。

Andrew: Interesting.

安德鲁：有趣。

There was this clinic in Florida a few years ago, was touting stem cell therapies for macular degeneration.

几年前，佛罗里达州有一家诊所，正在推销治疗黄斑变性的干细胞疗法。

Injected some stem cells into these patients' eyes, and they went blind really quickly.

将一些干细胞注射到这些患者的眼睛中，他们很快就失明了。

They were not blind prior to the injections.

他们在注射前并未失明。

That, to my understanding, caused a severe setback to the whole-

据我了解，这对整体造成了严重的挫折——

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: -field.

安德鲁：-场。

I'm old enough to remember when gene therapy was set back by about 10 years because a patient received gene therapy, which is now pretty common for certain diseases, and the patient died.

我已经足够大了，还记得基因治疗被推迟了大约 10 年，因为一名患者接受了基因治疗（现在基因治疗对于某些疾病来说很常见），然后患者死亡了。

It's unclear exactly why they died, but that delayed the field of gene therapy by at least a decade.

目前尚不清楚他们死亡的确切原因，但这使基因治疗领域推迟了至少十年。

This country is very conservative when it comes to the approval of new therapeutics.

这个国家在批准新疗法方面非常保守。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

I think, like anything, there's going to be people who get too aggressive amount of it.

我认为，就像任何事情一样，有些人会变得过于激进。

I've heard of doctors injecting stem cells into people's discs, and then they get discitis and infection, and that can just spiral very quickly.

我听说医生将干细胞注射到人们的椎间盘中，然后他们就会患上椎间盘炎和感染，而且这种情况会迅速恶化。

I think you've got to be reasonable in what you're trying to accomplish.

我认为你必须合理地对待你想要完成的事情。

I'm excited about stem cells and exosome therapy and PRP and PRF and using them as biologics, because I think there's a lot to learn.

我对干细胞和外泌体疗法以及 PRP 和 PRF 以及将它们用作生物制剂感到兴奋，因为我认为有很多东西需要学习。

I think we only know very little from what we've seen from working with our patients.

我认为我们从与患者的合作中所看到的情况所知甚少。

It's been tremendous from a rejuvenation standpoint.

从复兴的角度来看，这是巨大的。

As long as, I think, it's taking from your own and then giving back your own within how the FDA outlines it, I think that's a great way to do it.

我认为，只要按照 FDA 的规定，从你自己的东西中获取，然后回馈你自己的东西，我认为这是一个很好的方法。

Andrew: Well, certainly you have the clinical data to back those statements.

安德鲁：嗯，当然你有临床数据来支持这些说法。

Thymosin alpha-1, what is this peptide?

胸腺素α-1，这个肽是什么？

Maybe before we discuss it, did the FDA nuke Thymosin alpha-1?

也许在我们讨论这个问题之前，FDA 是否对胸腺素 alpha-1 进行了核试验？

Craig: They sure did.

克雷格：他们确实做到了。

Andrew: Whoa, okay, they're coming through with a howitzer and taking out all these peptides.

安德鲁：哇，好吧，他们拿着榴弹炮过来，取出所有这些肽。

Okay.

好的。

Well then, let's keep this relatively brief.

那么，让我们保持相对简短。

What was Thymosin alpha-1 being used for previously?

胸腺素 alpha-1 以前用于什么用途？

Craig: I think it was, from my observation, the best peptide for immune modulation.

克雷格：根据我的观察，我认为这是免疫调节的最佳肽。

We would use it if you had an overactive immune system like autoimmune disease.

如果您患有自身免疫性疾病等过度活跃的免疫系统，我们会使用它。

By definition, if someone has an autoimmune disease, their immune system is attacking their own self.

根据定义，如果某人患有自身免疫性疾病，那么他们的免疫系统就会攻击自己。

That's classically lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, things like that, celiac disease, type 1 diabetes.

这就是典型的狼疮、类风湿性关节炎、乳糜泻、1 型糖尿病等。

Those are all autoimmune diseases.

这些都是自身免疫性疾病。

We could use Thymosin alpha-1, and we tone down the immune response.

我们可以使用胸腺素α-1，并减弱免疫反应。

We'd also use it a lot in post-COVID, where you have an abnormal immune response or the immune system hasn't caught back up, and you can dial it up using Thymosin alpha-1 in a very safe way.

我们还会在新冠疫情后大量使用它，此时您的免疫反应异常或免疫系统尚未恢复正常，您可以以非常安全的方式使用胸腺素 alpha-1 进行调配。

We use it a lot with long COVID, and we were using 5,000 micrograms a day, sometimes intravenously, getting great results, very safe, had no issues with it.

我们在长期新冠肺炎期间经常使用它，每天使用 5,000 微克，有时静脉注射，效果很好，非常安全，没有任何问题。

Unfortunately, it's off the table.

不幸的是，这已经不在讨论范围之内了。

Andrew: I hear a lot of complaints about brain fog with long COVID and brain fog generally.

安德鲁：我听到很多关于长期新冠肺炎和脑雾的抱怨。

Cerebrolysin is a very interesting compound.

Cerebrolysin 是一种非常有趣的化合物。

My understanding is that cerebrolysin is available in Europe more broadly than it is in the US.

我的理解是，脑活素在欧洲的使用范围比在美国更广泛。

Is it -

难道是——

Craig: It's available here.

克雷格：可以在这里找到。

Andrew: -to the FDA, or is it taken out?

安德鲁：-向 FDA 提交，还是将其删除？

Craig: No, it's still available.

克雷格：不，它仍然可用。

Andrew: All right.

安德鲁：好吧。

Cerebrolysin made the cut.

脑活素成功了。

Craig: Yes, it made the cut.

克雷格：是的，它成功了。

Andrew: We'll see what happens after this podcast.

安德鲁：我们会看看这个播客之后会发生什么。

Craig: That's right.

克雷格：没错。

We've used a lot of cerebrolysin.

我们用了很多脑活素。

We actually have a clinic that's open in London.

实际上我们在伦敦有一家诊所。

We actually did use it.

我们确实使用过它。

We've used it a lot more over there than over here.

我们在那里使用它的次数比在这里多得多。

Andrew: You have a US clinic and a UK clinic?

安德鲁：你们有一家美国诊所和一家英国诊所吗？

Craig: We have one based in London and one in Charleston, yes.

克雷格：是的，我们在伦敦有一个，在查尔斯顿有一个。

I think cerebrolysin has been used for decades in the setting of post-stroke, post-traumatic brain injury.

我认为脑活素​​已用于治疗中风后、创伤后脑损伤已有数十年。

The trouble with it, again, I've observed with people, they get cerebrolysin, we're talking about IV, you can also use it sub-Q, they will have a day or two where they feel really down and out.

再次，它的麻烦，我观察到人们，他们得到脑活素，我们谈论的是静脉注射，你也可以使用它子Q，他们会有一两天感到真正的沮丧和沮丧。

Their mood shifts to like this dark place.

他们的心情变得喜欢这个黑暗的地方。

Andrew: Scary?

安德鲁：可怕吗？

Craig: Yes, and they come out of it.

克雷格：是的，他们走出了困境。

Most people don't like that feeling, and so we stopped using it mostly for that reason.

大多数人不喜欢这种感觉，因此我们主要出于这个原因停止使用它。

Andrew: My understanding is that cerebrolysin is kind of a cocktail of brain-derived neurotrophic factor, ciliary neurotrophic factor, some other things.

安德鲁：我的理解是，脑活素是一种脑源性神经营养因子、睫状神经营养因子和其他一些物质的混合物。

It's not one thing.

这不是一回事。

Craig: Right.

克雷格：对。

I think collectively, it increases BDNF levels.

我认为总的来说，它会增加 BDNF 水平。

There was dihexa too.

还有dihexa。

I don't know if you're familiar with dihexa.

不知道大家对dihexa是否熟悉。

That's another one that was removed by the FDA.

这是 FDA 删除的另一项。

Supposedly, the most potent way to increase brain-derived neurotrophic factor, kind of the juice the neurons live in, again, oversimplification.

据推测，增加脑源性神经营养因子（神经元赖以生存的果汁）的最有效方法再次过于简单化。

That's gone, but I think cerebrolysin did the same thing.

那已经消失了，但我认为脑活素​​也做了同样的事情。

Andrew: Interesting.

安德鲁：有趣。

As long as we're talking about maintaining or boosting cognitive function, here's one I've never tried, but you and I have talked a little bit about.

只要我们谈论维持或增强认知功能，这是我从未尝试过的，但你和我已经讨论过一些。

It's still seen as a renegade, but it's becoming more commonplace, and that's methylene blue.

它仍然被视为一种叛逆，但它变得越来越普遍，那就是亚甲蓝。

I always make the joke that I used to use methylene blue to clean my fish tanks, because I'm a big fish tank aficionado.

我总是开玩笑说我以前用亚甲蓝来清洁我的鱼缸，因为我是一个大鱼缸爱好者。

At least I was when I was a kid.

至少我小时候是这样。

Right now, I have a tank, but it's empty.

现在，我有一个水箱，但它是空的。

No pun intended.

没有双关语的意思。

What is methylene blue, and what are people using it for?

什么是亚甲基蓝？人们用它做什么？

Does it turn your tongue blue?

它会让你的舌头变蓝吗？

Craig: It does, for sure.

克雷格：确实如此。

Andrew: Is that permanently?

安德鲁：这是永久的吗？

Craig: Not permanently.

克雷格：不是永久的。

It's actually the first pharmaceutical ever prescribed in this country in the late 1800s, was methylene blue.

事实上，亚甲蓝是 1800 年代末在这个国家开出的第一种药物。

Andrew: Goodness.

安德鲁：天哪。

It sounds like really renegade, but it's--

听起来确实很叛逆，但事实是——

Craig: It's not.

克雷格：不是的。

Andrew: Got it.

安德鲁：明白了。

Craig: Yes, but it's gained favor in the last five years.

克雷格：是的，但它在过去五年里受到了青睐。

That's certainly when we learned about it.

我们当然就是在那时得知的。

Particularly, I learned about it through this doctor who was telling me, with COVID patients, he was getting immediate, within a day of stopping of COVID symptoms, from using methylene blue.

特别是，我是通过一位医生了解到这一点的，他告诉我，对于新冠病毒患者，他在新冠病毒症状停止后的一天内就可以立即停止使用亚甲蓝。

That's what piqued my interest.

这引起了我的兴趣。

I was like, "Wow, that's incredible." Then he went on to say that then COVID tests were turning negative within a matter of two days, which was unheard of.

我当时想，“哇，这太不可思议了。”然后他接着说，当时的新冠病毒检测结果在两天之内就变成了阴性，这是闻所未闻的。

Andrew: I've seen that with something else, but I'll get back to that.

安德鲁：我已经在其他事情上看到过这一点，但我会回过头来讨论这一点。

Craig: That's when I was like, "Oh, this is-" It started to be talked about, and learned about it.

克雷格：那时我就想，“哦，这是——”它开始被谈论，并了解到它。

Methylene blue, when we talk about the mitochondria, using that mitochondrial membrane binds to cytochrome C oxidase.

亚甲基蓝，当我们谈论线粒体时，利用线粒体膜与细胞色素 C 氧化酶结合。

I think of it, traditionally, it's used when people have carbon monoxide poisoning.

我想，传统上，它是在一氧化碳中毒时使用的。

They'll still use it.

他们仍然会使用它。

You go in the emergency room, you have carbon monoxide poisoning, it'll give you methylene blue, and it helps your red blood cells displace the carbon monoxide and put oxygen there.

你去急诊室，一氧化碳中毒，它会给你亚甲蓝，它可以帮助你的红细胞置换一氧化碳并在那里提供氧气。

It's an oxygenator.

这是一个制氧机。

That's how I think of it.

我就是这么认为的。

Andrew: Is it used as a performance-enhancing drug in endurance sports?

安德鲁：它在耐力运动中用作提高成绩的药物吗？

Because this sounds like the kind of thing that cyclists would really want to use.

因为这听起来像是骑自行车的人真正想要使用的东西。

Craig: For sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: Check with your local governing body.

安德鲁：请咨询您当地的管理机构。

There's always a question I get.

我总是有一个问题。

People are like, or they hear something on a podcast, and they go, "Can I take it, or am I going to get disqualified?" I always say, "I have no idea if you'll get disqualified."

人们就像，或者他们在播客上听到一些东西，然后他们会说，“我可以接受吗，或者我会被取消资格吗？”我总是说：“我不知道你是否会被取消资格。”

Craig: I don't believe it's on the water list.

克雷格：我不相信它在水清单上。

Andrew: We'll just look for the people with the blue tongues.

安德鲁：我们就去找那些蓝舌头的人。

Easy test.

简单的测试。

Craig: Methylene blue, very well absorbed, very well orally.

克雷格：亚甲基蓝，吸收非常好，口服效果很好。

I think of it like NAD, the molecule NAD, because it works on the cytochromes.

我认为它就像 NAD，NAD 分子，因为它作用于细胞色素。

Different than NAD, though, because if you're taking NAD by itself, not absorbed orally well at all.

但与 NAD 不同，因为如果您单独服用 NAD，则根本无法口服吸收。

That's one of the trouble with it.

这是它的麻烦之一。

Methylene blue is, and actually, you can take way bigger dosages orally than intravenously.

亚甲蓝是，实际上，您可以口服比静脉注射更大的剂量。

We've given it intravenously a lot, but we're limited in using it intravenously just because it'll start to cause some spasm of the vein.

我们已经多次静脉注射它，但我们在静脉注射方面受到限制，因为它会开始引起静脉痉挛。

The arm starts hurting if you're giving too much methylene blue, either too much or too quickly.

如果您给予过多的亚甲蓝，无论是过多还是过快，手臂就会开始疼痛。

We can give it orally.

我们可以口头给予。

You can get a capsule of it.

你可以买一粒它的胶囊。

That's how we, our pharmacy--

这就是我们，我们的药房——

Andrew: What dosages?

安德鲁：什么剂量？

Craig: I think a good dose is no more than 10 milligrams.

克雷格：我认为最好的剂量不超过 10 毫克。

Andrew: 10 milligrams?

安德鲁：10毫克？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: Taken when?

安德鲁：什么时候拍的？

Craig: In the morning.

克雷格：早上。

It's a cognitive stimulant for sure.

这无疑是一种认知兴奋剂。

I've had more people over the last five years, because we make methylene blue, we combine it with some other agents, a little bit of caffeine, some B vitamins, and people say, "This is the best thing for my brain function, recall memory."

在过去的五年里，我接触了更多的人，因为我们生产亚甲蓝，我们将它与其他一些药物、一点咖啡因、一些 B 族维生素结合起来，人们说，“这对我的大脑功能来说是最好的，可以回忆起记忆。”

Andrew: Kind of "Nootropic." A term I don't really like, because there aren't circuit for being smart, they're circuit for task switching.

安德鲁：有点“促智”。我不太喜欢这个术语，因为没有智能电路，它们是任务切换电路。

Craig: I get it.

克雷格：我明白了。

Andrew: It's 10 milligrams of methylene blue combined and you've got some other things in the cocktail version you make.

安德鲁：它混合了 10 毫克亚甲基蓝，并且在您制作的鸡尾酒版本中还添加了一些其他成分。

Taking in the morning on an empty stomach?

早上空腹吃可以吗

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

You could take it with food though.

不过你可以和食物一起服用。

Again, it's going to be well absorbed.

再次强调，它会被很好地吸收。

Interesting to people, I need to say, it will turn your urine green or blue.

我想说的是，它会让你的尿液变成绿色或蓝色。

Andrew: For how long?

安德鲁：多久？

Craig: About 24 hours, depending.

克雷格：大约 24 小时，视情况而定。

Andrew: It's kind of fun.

安德鲁：这很有趣。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Well, and a good caveat is if it doesn't, and I've had patients, then that's interesting to me as a clinician because it means that your mitochondria is not working well.

好吧，一个好的警告是，如果没有，而且我有过病人，那么作为临床医生，这对我来说很有趣，因为这意味着你的线粒体不能正常工作。

The way I see this is you should get spillover.

我的看法是你应该得到溢出效应。

You shouldn't use it all and if you're not, there's something wrong there that you're using all of it, and you're getting no spillover back into your bloodstream which gets filtered into your bladder, your urine, which you urinate out.

你不应该全部使用它，如果你不这样做，那么你使用了所有它，那么你就没有问题，并且你不会溢出回到你的血液中，它会过滤到你的膀胱、你的尿液中，然后你将其排泄出来。

That's happened with a couple of patients.

有几个病人就遇到过这样的情况。

It's like, "Oh wow, you had no green or blue urine.

就像，“哦，哇，你没有绿色或蓝色的尿液。

There's a problem with your mitochondria."

你的线粒体有问题。”

Andrew: It's putting more oxygen onto the blood cells?

安德鲁：它给血细胞提供更多的氧气？

Craig: Correct, like your hemoglobin is able to pick up more oxygen.

克雷格：正确，就像你的血红蛋白能够吸收更多的氧气一样。

That's exactly right.

完全正确。

Then there's a mild MAOI inhibitor.

还有一种温和的 MAOI 抑制剂。

Andrew: Monoamine oxidase inhibitor.

安德鲁：单胺氧化酶抑制剂。

Craig: Yes, which will allow things like serotonin to work a little bit longer in that synaptic cleft.

克雷格：是的，这将使血清素等物质在突触间隙中的作用时间更长一些。

You've expounded way better than I can about serotonin and dopamine and how those work, but there is a cognitive enhancement from it for sure.

关于血清素和多巴胺以及它们如何发挥作用，你比我解释得更好，但它肯定会增强认知能力。

It's very real.

这是非常真实的。

We have a lot of people using it and love it.

我们有很多人使用它并且喜欢它。

It also seems to be an antiviral.

它似乎也是一种抗病毒药物。

You get this, again, that's probably through the mitochondria, making your mitochondria more efficient.

你又明白了，这可能是通过线粒体，使你的线粒体更加高效。

Andrew: It's a prescription drug.

安德鲁：这是一种处方药。

Craig: It's a prescription drug, but there's now, and I don't totally understand it, there's now strictly over-the-counter nutraceutical supplement options that are methylene blue.

克雷格：这是一种处方药，但现在，我并不完全理解，现在有严格的非处方营养补充剂选择，它们是亚甲蓝。

For sure, anyone can go online and buy it.

当然，任何人都可以上网购买。

For sure.

一定。

Andrew: Trust me, now there are going to a be a few.

安德鲁：相信我，现在会有一些。

Craig: You talked about turning your mouth blue.

克雷格：你谈到要把你的嘴变成蓝色。

If you take a liquid form, and we'll do that sometimes in the office when we're doing other treatments, we'll give a big dose of methylene blue to help fuel, quickly make a lot of ATP, which we want to do with some different IV treatments we do.

如果您采用液体形式，有时我们会在办公室进行其他治疗时这样做，我们会给予大剂量的亚甲蓝来帮助提供能量，快速产生大量 ATP，我们希望通过一些不同的静脉注射治疗来做到这一点。

We'll give sometimes up to 50 milligrams at a time.

有时我们一次最多给予 50 毫克。

Their gums, teeth, lips are blue for about an hour or two.

他们的牙龈、牙齿、嘴唇呈蓝色大约一两个小时。

Andrew: How often can people take methylene blue?

安德鲁：人们多久可以服用一次亚甲蓝？

Craig: Again, you could take it every day.

克雷格：再说一次，你可以每天服用。

I think it's a little bit longer acting.

我认为表演时间有点长。

I don't take it every day.

我不是每天都吃。

I take it about three times a week.

我每周服用大约三次。

I think it's about right.

我认为这是正确的。

I do have people who need it more for whatever they're dealing with.

我确实有人更需要它来处理他们正在处理的任何事情。

I do think as a nutrient, if we're going to call it that, it's a lot of it.

我确实认为作为一种营养素，如果我们这么称呼它，它的含量就很多。

It's an insurance policy for your mitochondria.

这是线粒体的保险。

Andrew: Earlier, you mentioned a patient, or maybe it was patients, plural, that experienced a more rapid transition out of a COVID infection or maybe more recovery from long COVID symptoms, et cetera.

安德鲁：早些时候，您提到过一名患者，或者可能是多个患者，经历了更快地摆脱新冠病毒感染的过程，或者可能从长期新冠病毒症状中恢复得更快，等等。

It reminded me of the second time I got COVID, far less intense than the first time.

这让我想起了我第二次感染新冠病毒，但比第一次感染的严重程度要低得多。

The second time I got COVID, I had an amazing experience where my COVID test was very strong band.

我第二次感染新冠病毒时，我有一次奇妙的经历，我的新冠病毒测试结果非常强。

It was very clear.

情况非常清楚。

I had COVID.

我得了新冠病毒。

There was no question about it.

毫无疑问。

I didn't feel good.

我感觉不太好。

I was fatigued.

我很累。

Wasn't super severe.

不是超级严重。

I would put it on a six out of 10 on the malaise level.

对于不适程度，我将其打为 6 分（满分 10 分）。

No fever.

没有发烧。

I stayed in bed and stayed away from people, this sort of thing.

我呆在床上，远离人群，诸如此类。

I did an NAD infusion.

我输注了NAD。

I, of course, told them I had COVID.

当然，我告诉他们我感染了新冠病毒。

They came over, they gave me an NAD infusion.

他们过来了，给我注射了 NAD。

Correlation is not causation, but I think it was 750 milligram NAD infusion over the course of about 45 minutes.

相关性不是因果关系，但我认为是在大约 45 分钟的时间内输注了 750 毫克 NAD。

I had the usual feelings that one gets when you get an NAD infusion, of you feel like an elephant is stepping on your legs.

当你注射 NAD 时，我有一种常见的感觉，感觉就像一头大象踩在你的腿上。

Your chest got the cramps, so you feel.

你的胸部痉挛，所以你有这种感觉。

Then, when that stops, you feel much better than you go into the thing.

然后，当这种情况停止时，你会感觉比投入这件事要好得多。

The band was absent the next day.

第二天乐队就缺席了。

My symptoms were, I don't want to say gone.

我的症状是，我不想说消失了。

I went from a five, six out of 10, as I mentioned, to a two out of 10.

正如我提到的，我从满分 10 分中的 5、6 分，变成了满分 10 分中的 2 分。

Within another 48 hours, I was good to go and better.

又过了 48 小时，我就可以出发了，而且情况好多了。

Now, this is correlation, not causation.

现在，这是相关性，而不是因果性。

I don't know what was going on.

我不知道发生了什么事。

It could have been the saline bag, right?

可能是生理盐水袋吧？

It could have been any number of things.

可能有很多事情。

The shift from a dark band to no band was so dramatic that I took another test after the no band, and then, of course, the next day, and the next day, this kind of thing.

从暗带到无带的转变是如此戏剧性，以至于我在无带之后又进行了一次测试，然后，当然，第二天，再后一天，这种事情。

It's interesting.

这很有趣。

I don't know what it means, but one wonders whether or not it's just a global way of combating inflammation.

我不知道这意味着什么，但有人想知道这是否只是一种对抗炎症的全球方法。

Every time I think about a systemic effect, and the reason I raise this is that I don't want to give the impression that I think that NAD is specifically in the pathway that was targeted, but that my brain and body were inflamed.

每次我想到系统性影响时，我提出这个问题的原因是我不想给人留下这样的印象：我认为 NAD 专门存在于目标途径中，但我的大脑和身体都发炎了。

Clearly, I had an infection, so you could have a flu, you could have a cold, you're inflamed.

显然，我感染了，所以你可能得了流感，你可能得了感冒，你发炎了。

What are your thoughts on that anecdote?

您对这则轶事有何看法？

Again, it's just anecdote, but what are your clinical reflections?

再说一次，这只是轶事，但你的临床反映是什么？

Craig: We've seen it so many times.

克雷格：我们已经见过很多次了。

For the longest time, and so we've been using NAD longer than most.

时间最长，因此我们使用 NAD 的时间比大多数人都长。

I'm fortunate that I was given the original NAD infusion protocol, which came from Mexico.

我很幸运，我得到了来自墨西哥的原始 NAD 输注方案。

It's a long story.

这是一个很长的故事。

I don't want to bore you, but that dosage of 750 milligrams is actually what we came up with in my office.

我不想让你厌烦，但是 750 毫克的剂量实际上是我们在我的办公室想出的。

That's what most people adopted just because we've used it more than probably anyone else on the planet.

这就是大多数人采用的方式，只是因为我们使用它的次数可能比地球上任何其他人都多。

Huge fan of NAD, very biased, but that's only because I've seen it work over and over and over in inexplicable scenarios just like you're describing, where it's not just you go from A to B, but you're going to A to Z very quickly.

NAD 的超级粉丝，非常有偏见，但这只是因为我看到它在令人费解的场景中一遍又一遍地工作，就像你所描述的那样，在那里你不仅从 A 到 B，而且你很快就会从 A 到 Z。

I used to use the word transformational, talking about it.

我曾经使用变革这个词来谈论它。

Not just going from a sick state to a well state, but in most people, going from a well state to a super well state really quickly.

不仅仅是从患病状态转变为健康状态，而且对于大多数人来说，从健康状态转变为超级健康状态的速度非常快。

It's super impressive.

真是太令人印象深刻了。

There's a lot more to NAD than we understand, right?

NAD 的内涵比我们理解的要多得多，对吧？

Because just very empirically, giving someone this coenzyme, this vitamin B3 derivative, how is it dramatically changing symptomatically how someone feels?

因为从经验上来说，给某人这种辅酶、这种维生素 B3 衍生物，它如何显着改变某人的症状感觉？

It does.

确实如此。

I've seen it with thousands upon thousands of people, certainly in the setting of COVID, certainly in other bio infections, you name it.

我在成千上万的人身上看到过这种情况，当然是在新冠病毒的背景下，当然是在其他生物感染中，凡是你能想到的。

I have been more impressed with the work of NAD than probably any other agent we've ever used.

NAD 的工作给我留下的印象可能比我们使用过的任何其他代理都更深刻。

Andrew: Amazing.

安德鲁：太棒了。

I take sublingual NMN each day.

我每天都会舌下含服 NMN。

It makes my hair grow ridiculously fast.

它让我的头发长得快得离谱。

I've done the control experiment.

我做了对照实验。

I'm a scientist.

我是一名科学家。

I know how to do control experiments.

我知道如何进行对照实验。

It's still just N of one.

仍然只是 N 之一。

It's just me.

这只是我。

It makes my nails grow really fast.

它让我的指甲长得很快。

It makes my hair grow fast.

它使我的头发长得很快。

That's the major consequence.

这就是主要的后果。

By the way, I want to be clear, I don't have any stake in any company that sells NAD or NAD infusion, so I'm just reporting what I'm reporting.

顺便说一句，我想澄清一下，我在任何销售 NAD 或 NAD 输液的公司中没有任何股份，所以我只是报告我所报告的内容。

Craig: I think it's great.

克雷格：我认为这很棒。

Andrew: Somebody who's quite expert in the NAD pathway, Charles Brenner, who I believe has a relationship to a company that makes NR supplements-

安德鲁：查尔斯·布伦纳（Charles Brenner）是 NAD 通路方面的专家，我相信他与一家生产 NR 补充剂的公司有关系——

Craig: I think that's right.

克雷格：我认为这是对的。

Andrew: -encouraged me to try NR.

Andrew：-鼓励我尝试 NR。

I took these NR supplements.

我服用了这些 NR 补充剂。

This is what?

这是什么？

It's NAD minus a phosphate group, is my understanding.

我的理解是 NAD 减去磷酸基团。

Those I took orally.

那些我口服的。

I couldn't tell if I got the same or different effect because I was taking them together.

我无法判断是否得到相同或不同的效果，因为我将它们放在一起。

I didn't continue to take them because, compared to NMN, it was very expensive.

我没有继续服用它们，因为与NMN相比，它非常昂贵。

I just stopped taking it.

我刚刚停止服用它。

That's why I use sublingual NMN.

这就是我使用舌下 NMN 的原因。

In brief discussions with Charles, and how we are forging online, it seems that there is some human clinical literature showing that NR can reduce inflammation.

在与 Charles 的简短讨论以及我们如何在网上进行讨论时，似乎有一些人类临床文献表明 NR 可以减轻炎症。

Is that right?

是这样吗？

Craig: Yes, for sure.

克雷格：是的，当然。

Andrew: Okay.

安德鲁：好的。

Less data that NMN can reduce inflammation, at least lack of human studies.

表明NMN可以减轻炎症的数据较少，至少缺乏人体研究。

It's still murky, foggy territory with respect to the research and clinical--

就研究和临床而言，这仍然是一个模糊的领域——

Craig: The biochemistry.

克雷格：生物化学。

Yes, what does the biochemistry do?

是的，生物化学有什么作用？

The way I think about it, again, because we pioneered the infusions, the NAD drips, which for me, transformational, just observing lots of people who I never saw the same thing with NMN and NR.

我再次思考这个问题，因为我们首创了 NAD 输液，这对我来说是变革性的，只是观察了很多我从未见过 NMN 和 NR 相同情况的人。

You're not having these transformational experiences within a week.

你不会在一周内获得这些转变的经历。

I tell the story a lot, is I had a patient, he was diagnosed with a chronic Epstein-Barr virus, which is rare, but it does exist.

我讲了很多故事，我有一个病人，他被诊断出患有慢性爱泼斯坦-巴尔病毒，这种病毒很罕见，但确实存在。

He was depressed and on disability just because he couldn't almost get out of bed.

仅仅因为他几乎无法起床，他就感到沮丧和残疾。

Andrew: This is mono?

安德鲁：这是单声道？

Craig: It was reactivation of Epstein-Barr.

克雷格：这是爱泼斯坦-巴尔的重新激活。

Yes.

是的。

Very fatigued and depressed, and literally on disability, couldn't work.

非常疲劳和沮丧，而且实际上是残疾，无法工作。

I said, "Before we do anything, the way I operate, I want to get you feeling better first before we start to tackle some of the bigger things." We did the loading dose of NAD, which we came up with five treatments in 10 days.

我说：“在我们做任何事情之前，按照我的运作方式，我想让你先感觉好一点，然后再开始处理一些更大的事情。”我们进行了 NAD 的负荷剂量，并在 10 天内进行了 5 次治疗。

Came back to my office, his wife was there, she was crying.

回到我的办公室，他的妻子在那里，她在哭。

She goes, "Within a week, my husband is back."

她说：“一周之内，我丈夫就回来了。”

Andrew: Wow.

安德鲁：哇。

Craig: I've seen that so many times with NAD.

克雷格：我在 NAD 中见过很多次这样的情况。

I can't explain it.

我无法解释。

If I just stick to the biochemistry, it doesn't make sense.

如果我只坚持生物化学，那就没有意义了。

Oh, you're increasing the NAD, NEH ratio, fueling the mitochondria, which are all over the body, thousands per cell.

哦，你正在增加 NAD、NEH 的比例，为线粒体提供能量，线粒体遍布全身，每个细胞有数千个。

There's something that we just told-- there's got to be outside the mitochondrial effect of NAD that's not well understood.

我们刚刚说过，NAD 的线粒体效应之外肯定还有一些尚未被充分理解的事情。

Andrew: In the backdrop of our conversation today, there've been a number of themes, but one of the themes that seems to keep coming up is that there are a lot of things about medicine that we don't understand.

安德鲁：在我们今天谈话的背景下，有很多主题，但似乎不断出现的主题之一是，有很多关于医学的事情我们不理解。

Craig: Totally.

克雷格：完全可以。

Andrew: Yet there are tools that seem to work for certain people extremely well.

安德鲁：然而，有些工具似乎对某些人非常有效。

A few years ago, I went to a meeting.

几年前，我去参加一个会议。

This is a foundation meeting, a foundation I was a part of, where you get to see talks from really the best of the best laboratories.

这是一个基金会会议，我曾参与过这个基金会，在那里你可以看到来自真正最好的实验室的演讲。

They only show unpublished data.

它们仅显示未发布的数据。

I don't know if this paper's published yet, but at the time, they were showing that they took people that were diagnosed with major depression.

我不知道这篇论文是否已经发表，但当时，他们表明他们带走了被诊断患有重度抑郁症的人。

They started doing a bunch of metabolomics on them.

他们开始对它们进行一系列代谢组学研究。

Now, this sounds pretty standard for social media.

现在，这对于社交媒体来说听起来相当标准。

It's actually pretty heretical.

这实际上是相当异端的。

Not a lot of places have done this right.

没有很多地方做得对。

A couple thousand patients, blood draws, they're trying to figure out, they ask a simple question, are there any specific vitamin deficiencies that are associated with depression?

几千名患者抽血，他们试图弄清楚，他们问一个简单的问题，是否存在与抑郁症相关的特定维生素缺乏症？

As I recall, they identified a few different types of vitamin deficiencies.

我记得，他们发现了几种不同类型的维生素缺乏症。

It's not like one vitamin, it's not always methylated B6 or something like that.

它不像一种维生素，也不总是甲基化 B6 或类似的东西。

Excuse me, it's not always B6 or B12.

抱歉，并不总是 B6 或 B12。

They found these clusters of patients that had major depression that were deficient in particular B vitamin.

他们发现这些患有重度抑郁症的患者缺乏特定的 B 族维生素。

They supplemented back the B vitamin, and lo and behold, those patients showed remission of their depression.

他们补充了 B 族维生素，你瞧，这些患者的抑郁症得到了缓解。

One could conveniently conclude, oh, well, all depression is a B vitamin deficiency, but of course that's not true.

人们可以很容易地得出结论，哦，好吧，所有抑郁症都是 B 族维生素缺乏，但这当然不是真的。

More likely depression, like fever, is just a broad description of symptoms.

更有可能的是，抑郁症就像发烧一样，只是症状的广泛描述。

What was so exciting about this talk, to me anyway, was that people were starting to look at nutritional deficiencies as a potential source of mental illness, which now has a bit more traction, but at the time was like, "Whoa, what are we really saying here?

无论如何，对我来说，这次演讲如此令人兴奋的是，人们开始将营养缺乏视为精神疾病的潜在根源，现在这种疾病有了更多的关注，但当时的感觉是，“哇，我们在这里到底在说什么？

I thought all of depression was a serotonin deficiency," this kind of thing.

我认为所有的抑郁症都是血清素缺乏，”诸如此类的事情。

When you talk about NAD having these transformative effects, and the fact that NAD can raise the tide on a number of different biological processes, to me, it makes perfect sense.

当你谈到 NAD 具有这些变革性的作用，以及 NAD 可以推动许多不同的生物过程这一事实时，对我来说，这是完全有道理的。

It might've kicked off some mitochondrial pathway or some cellar pathway that then fills in a blank that's desperately needed.

它可能启动了一些线粒体途径或一些地窖途径，然后填补了迫切需要的空白。

Is that one way that we can conceptualize this?

这是我们可以概念化的一种方式吗？

Craig: That makes total sense to me.

克雷格：这对我来说完全有道理。

I like how you've described it.

我喜欢你的描述方式。

Andrew: How often do you encourage your already healthy patients to do NAD infusions?

Andrew：您多久鼓励已经健康的患者进行 NAD 输注？

What are the dosages?

剂量是多少？

I should mention the NAD infusions for most people are a little bit costly.

我应该提到的是，对于大多数人来说，NAD 输注有点贵。

Craig: They are costly.

克雷格：它们​​的成本很高。

Andrew: They're like anywhere from $500 to $1,000.

安德鲁：价格从 500 美元到 1,000 美元不等。

Craig: Or more in Los Angeles.

克雷格：或者在洛杉矶更多。

Andrew: More if you're in Los Angeles.

安德鲁：如果你在洛杉矶，那就更多了。

Assuming someone has the means.

假设有人有办法。

Craig: Here's what we found.

克雷格：这就是我们的发现。

Again, just found it by treating a lot of people and learning is we do a loading dose for most people.

再说一遍，通过治疗很多人发现了这一点，并且了解到我们为大多数人服用了负荷剂量。

We found the sweet spot to be 750 milligrams.

我们发现最佳剂量是 750 毫克。

Andrew: Intravenous?

安德鲁：静脉注射？

Craig: Intravenous.

克雷格：静脉注射。

Andrew: Venous, excuse me.

安德鲁：维纳斯，对不起。

Craig: When they were doing NAD in the '90s, and they were doing it for substance abuse, so alcohol, pain medicine, morphine.

克雷格：当他们在 90 年代做 NAD 时，他们这样做是为了防止药物滥用，比如酒精、止痛药、吗啡。

Andrew: They used it for that?

安德鲁：他们用它来做这个？

Craig: That's where it came from, actually.

克雷格：实际上，这就是它的来源。

It was in the '90s.

那是在 90 年代。

People traveling to Mexico for NAD infusions.

前往墨西哥注射 NAD 的人。

That protocol was 10 straight days of intravenous NAD.

该方案是连续 10 天静脉注射 NAD。

The doses was 3,000 milligrams.

剂量为3,000毫克。

Andrew: 3,000 milligrams?

安德鲁：3,000 毫克？

Craig: Yes, and that's why it took 6 to 8 to 10 hours per infusion.

克雷格：是的，这就是为什么每次输注需要 6 至 8 至 10 小时。

You could not get through it.

你无法度过难关。

Andrew: Putting 500 milligrams in over the course of 45 minutes is going to be-

安德鲁：在 45 分钟内服用 500 毫克将会是——

Craig: Uncomfortable.

克雷格：不舒服。

Andrew: -very uncomfortable.

安德鲁：-非常不舒服。

Many people take an anti-nausea med.

许多人服用抗恶心药物。

Craig: I'll say about that.

克雷格：我会谈谈这个。

There was a gentleman in the States in 2006 who lived in Louisiana.

2006年美国有一位先生住在路易斯安那州。

He had a pain medicine addiction.

他有止痛药瘾。

Went to Mexico, got the NAD protocol, changed his life.

去了墨西哥，接受了 NAD 协议，改变了他的生活。

He then licensed the use of the only injectable NAD product, which was from a South African company at the time, brought it to the United States, opened a clinic in Atlanta.

然后，他获得了使用唯一的注射 NAD 产品（当时来自一家南非公司）的许可，并将其带到美国，在亚特兰大开设了一家诊所。

All he did was addiction.

他所做的一切都是上瘾。

I got to know him because I'm Charleston, not too far involved in IV work.

我认识他是因为我是查尔斯顿人，不太参与静脉注射工作。

He was not a physician.

他不是医生。

I don't remember the time, but he came to me and said, "Hey, I need some help, because I'm getting a lot of questions about this NAD stuff." He handed me the original protocol.

我不记得具体时间了，但他走过来对我说：“嘿，我需要一些帮助，因为我收到了很多关于 NAD 东西的问题。”他递给我原始协议。

I'm super grateful and fortunate, but what I realized is, no one has time to spend 6 to 8 to 10 hours in someone's office.

我非常感激和幸运，但我意识到，没有人有时间在别人的办公室里呆 6 到 8 到 10 个小时。

They may do that once, but they're not doing it more than once.

他们可能会这样做一次，但不会多次这样做。

We started trialing different dosages, 250, 500, 750, 1,000 on up, and I just found collectively by watching people and how it did, 750 milligrams is the sweet spot.

我们开始尝试不同的剂量，250、500、750、1,000 甚至更多，我只是通过观察人们以及它的效果才发现，750 毫克是最佳剂量。

Meaning, they'd get the benefits, which we can talk about, but then they could get through it in an hour or two hours.

意思是，他们会得到我们可以谈论的好处，但他们可以在一两个小时内完成它。

That was meaningful.

那很有意义。

Then we found that we don't need 10 straight days.

然后我们发现我们不需要连续10天。

It's too much.

太多了。

That just is crazy.

这太疯狂了。

We found that five treatments in 10 days, again, afforded people the ability to have great benefits, which were uniform, probably 95% of people who do a loading disk will come back and tell you their brain is getting bigger.

我们发现，10 天内进行 5 次治疗，再次让人们能够获得巨大的好处，而且效果是一致的，可能 95% 进行过加载磁盘的人会回来告诉你他们的大脑变大了。

They're feeling more creative.

他们感觉更有创造力。

They have a elevated mood.

他们的情绪高涨。

They can sleep less, but have more energy.

他们可以睡得更少，但精力却更多。

Colors look brighter.

颜色看起来更明亮。

Languaging is easier.

语言更容易。

This is all very real.

这一切都是非常真实的。

I think it affects the nervous system first, just because of the concentration of the mitochondria for every single neuron in the body.

我认为它首先影响神经系统，只是因为体内每个神经元的线粒体浓度都很高。

The physical components, meaning recovery, and helping with physical exercise, those come, but I think they come later.

身体方面的内容，即恢复和帮助体育锻炼，这些都会出现，但我认为它们会出现得更晚。

We settled on 750 milligrams.

我们确定为 750 毫克。

We settled on the loading dose.

我们确定了负荷剂量。

Then what I noticed is that people were coming back between three and four weeks saying, "Hey, I don't feel as good as I did after I did that loading dose." We started doing a once-a-month maintenance dose, and that is what we still recommend to do today.

然后我注意到，人们在三到四个星期之间回来说：“嘿，我感觉不像服用负荷剂量后那么好。”我们开始每月一次维持剂量，这也是我们今天仍然建议这样做的。

Some people do less and some people do more.

有的人做得少，有的人做得多。

I have some people who do it once a week.

我有些人每周做一次。

Plenty of people do it once a month, and then some people do it quarterly, some people do it whenever they can.

很多人每个月做一次，然后有些人每季度做一次，有些人只要有机会就做。

On average, once a month seems to work really well for people.

平均而言，每月一次似乎对人们来说非常有效。

Then during the pandemic, and realizing this is growing, because again, we train practices in the medicine that we practice, we trained 300, 350 practices and give them playbook, so to speak, people weren't coming to the office as much with COVID, so we started doing it subcutaneously.

然后在大流行期间，我们意识到这种情况正在增长，因为我们再次培训了我们所从事的医学实践，我们培训了 300、350 个实践并给他们提供了剧本，可以这么说，人们没有那么多地带着新冠病毒来到办公室，所以我们开始皮下进行。

Actually, that's worked out really well.

事实上，这确实取得了很好的效果。

We'll do 100 milligrams subcutaneously, again, five days on, take two days off.

我们将再次皮下注射 100 毫克，连续五天，休息两天。

You get a little bit of that stomach cramping from the 100 milligram injection.

注射 100 毫克后，您会感到有点胃痉挛。

Like you said, can't really be absorbed well orally.

就像你说的，口服吸收不好。

Not going to really work, so you're going to have to inject it or infuse it.

不会真正起作用，所以你必须注射它或注入它。

Agreed, there is a price point here.

同意，这里有一个价格点。

It's going to cost money, but like most things, to me, if I had to pick one thing for people, engaging in NAD would be it.

这需要花钱，但就像大多数事情一样，对我来说，如果我必须为人们选择一件事，那么参与 NAD 就是我的选择。

Andrew: Really?

安德鲁：真的吗？

Craig: Yes, I would.

克雷格：是的，我会的。

Andrew: Of all the things we've discussed?

安德鲁：在我们讨论过的所有事情中？

Craig: Of all the things, I've just been so impressed over the years.

克雷格：在所有的事情中，这些年来我印象深刻。

Now, peptides are amazing.

现在，肽是惊人的。

Not to knock peptides.

不敲肽。

There's so many peptides, and I will get there, because you take this peptide for the nervous system, and this peptide for the immune system.

有很多肽，我会到达那里，因为你将这种肽用于神经系统，并将这种肽用于免疫系统。

Collectively, one agent, one thing, it's NAD has been the most impactful, from where I sit working with patients.

总的来说，一种药物，一件事，从我与患者一起工作的角度来看，NAD 是最有影响力的。

Andrew: That's a significant statement.

安德鲁：这是一个重要的声明。

100 milligrams injected subcutaneously?

皮下注射100毫克？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: You get a little bit of stomach cramping?

安德鲁：你有一点胃痉挛吗？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: As compared to the 500 milligrams to 750 or 1,000 milligrams-

安德鲁：与 500 毫克到 750 毫克或 1,000 毫克相比——

Craig: IV.

克雷格：四。

Andrew: -that one brings in IV?

安德鲁：-那个人带来了静脉注射？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: The fastest I've ever dripped it in was, I think, 40 minutes.

安德鲁：我认为最快的是 40 分钟。

Craig: I can tell you the record.

克雷格：我可以告诉你这个记录。

Andrew: What's the record?

安德鲁：记录是什么？

Craig: 3 minutes and 26 seconds.

克雷格：3分26秒。

Andrew: Is that you?

安德鲁：是你吗？

Craig: No, no, no. Never.

克雷格：不，不，不。绝不。

Andrew: For 500 milligrams?

安德鲁：500 毫克？

Craig: 750 milligrams, two separate people did it.

克雷格：750毫克，两个人做的。

500 CCs of saline, 3 minutes and 26 seconds.

500 CC 生理盐水，3 分 26 秒。

Andrew: Wow.

安德鲁：哇。

Craig: It's insane.

克雷格：这太疯狂了。

Andrew: Yes.

安德鲁：是的。

I don't recommend it.

我不推荐它。

Craig: No, no, we wouldn't allow it to happen.

克雷格：不，不，我们不会允许这种事发生。

It's too much.

太多了。

You've got to have a lot of experience with NAD.

您必须拥有丰富的 NAD 经验。

Andrew: Yes.

安德鲁：是的。

I found that, because you have to sit there for a while, you could think, "Well, if you organize the plumbing correctly, that you could type or something," but you feel-

我发现，因为你必须坐在那里一段时间，你可能会想，“好吧，如果你正确地组织管道，你就可以打字什么的，”但你觉得 -

Craig: It's hard.

克雷格：这很难。

Andrew: -garbage enough-

安德鲁：-够垃圾了-

Craig: It's hard.

克雷格：这很难。

Andrew: -during the infusion that you get irritable.

安德鲁：-在输液期间你会变得烦躁。

It's actually a very interesting window into empathy for people who have pain.

对于遭受痛苦的人来说，这实际上是一个非常有趣的同情心窗口。

Craig: Totally.

克雷格：完全可以。

Andrew: When you're in this whole-body systemic pain and discomfort and you getting that saliva, I'm sensing it now, I have a distinct memory of this, for people that get seasick, you think about being on a boat and walking back and forth get a little nauseous, someone would walk in the room and you're like, "God, why are they walking like that?" It's your sense of pain.

安德鲁：当你处于这种全身系统性疼痛和不适并且流口水时，我现在感觉到了，我对此有清晰的记忆，对于晕船的人来说，你会想到在船上来回走动会有点恶心，有人会在房间里走动，你会想，“上帝啊，他们为什么这样走路？”这是你的疼痛感。

I normally don't have that response to people.

我通常不会对别人做出这样的反应。

I'm not a moody person in general.

一般来说，我不是一个喜怒无常的人。

Then when you remove the infusion, you feel great.

然后，当您取出输液时，您会感觉很棒。

All of a sudden, people seem delightful, the irritating person.

突然之间，人们看起来很令人愉快，而令人讨厌的人。

It's a very interesting experiment in social empathy.

这是一个非常有趣的社会同理心实验。

Craig: It is.

克雷格：是的。

This is just what I postulate, is that a lot of people are challenged because a lot of people are numb to the world they live in.

这正是我的假设，很多人都面临着挑战，因为很多人对他们所生活的世界感到麻木。

They don't feel things.

他们没有感觉。

When you do NAD, there is nothing like that experience and that feeling.

当您进行 NAD 时，没有什么比这种体验和感觉更好的了。

You are going to just psychologically say, "Something is changing inside of me.

你只需从心理上说：“我内心有些东西正在发生变化。

It's something powerful because when I receive it, it's a lot." To your point, what we do is, we have an IB room where you have eight chairs and we make it social.

这是一种强大的东西，因为当我收到它时，它的数量很多。”就你而言，我们所做的是，我们有一个 IB 房间，里面有八把椅子，我们让它变得社交化。

When you're talking to people and learning about their experiencing it, there's actually a lot of healing that occurs just from that community.

当你与人们交谈并了解他们的经历时，实际上，这个社区就产生了很多治愈效果。

Andrew: That bonding experiment.

安德鲁：那个结合实验。

Craig: It is.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: For people that can't afford the infusions, the injections would be the next best bet.

安德鲁：对于无力承担输液费用的人来说，注射可能是下一个最佳选择。

If they can't afford those, would it be the sublingual NMN or NR?

如果他们买不起，会选择舌下 NMN 或 NR 吗？

Craig: I think so.

克雷格：我想是的。

I think the NMN I would choose over NR.

我认为我会选择 NMN 而不是 NR。

Andrew: Going from most expensive to least expensive, most expensive would be-

安德鲁：从最贵到最便宜，最贵的是-

Craig: IV.

克雷格：四。

Andrew: -IV.

安德鲁：-IV。

Then it would be subcutaneous, then it would be NR, and then it would be sublingual NMN?

那么皮下注射，然后NR，然后舌下NMN？

Craig: Yes, that's about right.

克雷格：是的，差不多是这样。

You could do NAD topically.

你可以局部做NAD。

It's a little bit wild card doing it topically.

局部做这件事有点不确定。

You could do it under your patch.

你可以在你的补丁下做到这一点。

Andrew: The antipyretic patches.

安德鲁：退热贴。

Those give me a really terrible--

这些给我带来了非常可怕的——

Craig: The problem is the patch.

克雷格：问题出在补丁上。

Andrew: I get this itchy thing.

安德鲁：我觉得很痒。

Craig: It's the patch.

克雷格：这是补丁。

It's the adhesive.

这是粘合剂。

It's too strong and lots of people get irritated.

它太强大了，很多人都会生气。

Their skin gets irritated.

他们的皮肤受到刺激。

I think the NAD gets in well, but the patch itself is a hindrance, obstacle.

我认为 NAD 融入得很好，但补丁本身就是一个障碍。

Andrew: For those that are listening to this and they may recall, I did an episode of this podcast with Dr. Peter Attia, where we talked about NAD and NMN and NR.

Andrew：对于那些正在听这个节目的人来说，他们可能还记得，我和 Peter Attia 博士一起制作了这个播客的一集，我们在其中讨论了 NAD、NMN 和 NR。

That was mainly focused on the research literature.

这主要集中在研究文献上。

You're not going to find much.

你不会发现太多。

Craig: You won't.

克雷格：你不会的。

Andrew: What we're talking about here is clinical experience.

安德鲁：我们这里谈论的是临床经验。

Craig: It is.

克雷格：是的。

Full disclosure, I'm a clinician through and through, so my experience is observing people.

坦白说，我是一名彻头彻尾的临床医生，所以我的经验就是观察人们。

Andrew: You're interested in what works.

安德鲁：你对有效的方法感兴趣。

Craig: I'm confident about it because I've done a lot of it.

克雷格：我对此很有信心，因为我已经做了很多。

I've seen a lot of how peptides work because we've done a lot of it.

我已经了解了很多肽的工作原理，因为我们已经做了很多工作。

NAD, because we've overseen, again, a lot of NAD here and in London all over, and the providers we work with.

NAD，因为我们再次监督了这里和伦敦各地的许多 NAD 以及与我们合作的提供商。

We get a lot of feedback about what works and what doesn't work.

我们收到很多关于什么有效、什么无效的反馈。

Andrew: Speaking of clinicians and science and all of this, there are a couple other peptides that have received FDA approval that are commonly in use.

Andrew：说到临床医生和科学以及所有这些，还有其他几种已获得 FDA 批准且常用的肽。

Things like PT-141, which is in this melanocyte hormone pathway that's used.

像 PT-141 这样的东西，就是在这种黑素细胞激素途径中使用的。

One of its FDA-approved uses is, I think the brand name is Vyleesi, for female hypo-libido.

FDA 批准的用途之一是，我认为其品牌名称是 Vyleesi，代表女性性欲低下。

It stimulates libido in women.

它可以刺激女性的性欲。

It's also used to stimulate libido in men.

它还用于刺激男性性欲。

Is that right?

是这样吗？

Craig: Can be.

克雷格：可以。

It's a neurogenic mechanism for erectile dysfunction.

这是勃起功能障碍的神经源性机制。

Andrew: It's not just related to blood flow?

安德鲁：这不仅仅与血流有关？

Craig: Actually, it's not.

克雷格：事实上，事实并非如此。

PT-141, a fragment or derivative of the peptide melanotan, which stimulates alpha-melanocyte-stimulating hormone, which is becoming more in play in the environment I operate in just because of mold toxicity.

PT-141，黑素肽的片段或衍生物，可刺激α-黑素细胞刺激激素，由于霉菌毒性，这种激素在我工作的环境中变得越来越重要。

We think of mold toxicity being a biotin and hitting-- MSH being the general, in terms of a lot of these hormonal pathways, actually.

我们认为霉菌毒性是一种生物素，MSH 是一般性的，实际上，就许多激素途径而言。

Melanotan can strip bolster by putting out more melanocyte-stimulating hormone.

Melanotan 可以通过释放更多的黑素细胞刺激激素来去除支撑物。

It seems to bolster immune response.

它似乎可以增强免疫反应。

I think there's an element with energy too.

我认为也有一种具有能量的元素。

The downside of melanotan is it stimulates melanocytes, so you're going to get this tanning.

黑色素的缺点是它会刺激黑色素细胞，所以你会被晒黑。

It's like an orange-looking tanning.

就像晒黑后的橙色一样。

Andrew: From the inside out?

安德鲁：从内到外？

Craig: Yes, you see it.

克雷格：是的，你看到了。

You recognize it.

你认得它。

PT-141, what they found is, in rats, I think it was, female rats were copulating more when they got this compound.

PT-141，他们发现，在老鼠身上，我认为是，当雌性老鼠得到这种化合物时，它们的交配次数更多。

They were like, "Oh, cool.

他们就像，“哦，酷。

Let's try it in humans." It's led to that.

让我们在人类身上尝试一下。”就是这样导致的。

Our trouble with it is a very small or narrow therapeutic window.

我们的问题是治疗窗口非常小或狭窄。

If you give too much, you're going to get nauseous pretty quickly.

如果你给予太多，你很快就会感到恶心。

Some people, particularly women, don't like that tanning look.

有些人，尤其是女性，不喜欢晒黑的样子。

It's not a very--

这不是一个非常——

Andrew: It can look very unnatural.

安德鲁：它看起来很不自然。

Craig: Unnatural is the word.

克雷格：这个词不自然。

Andrew: The medial pituitary, which at least my understanding is the origin of these peptides that we're talking about now, is super interesting.

安德鲁：垂体内侧，至少我的理解是我们现在谈论的这些肽的起源，非常有趣。

You mentioned the nausea.

你提到了恶心。

These peptides hit multiple pathways When we had Dr. Zachary Knight from University of California, San Francisco on to talk about GLP-1 in a lot of detail, he mentioned that some of the nausea associated with ozempic and Mounjaro and things like that relates to the fact that there are receptors for these things, not just in one hypothalamic structure, but also in area postrema and areas of the brain that are these "primitive" areas that are associated with generating nausea when you need to rid yourself of a poison that-

这些肽影响多种途径 当我们请来自旧金山加利福尼亚大学的 Zachary Knight 博士详细讨论 GLP-1 时，他提到与 ozempic 和 Mounjaro 等相关的一些恶心与这些物质的受体有关，不仅在下丘脑结构中，而且在后区和大脑区域中，这些“原始”区域与当您需要摆脱毒物时产生恶心有关那-

Craig: Makes sense.

克雷格：有道理。

Andrew: -nature conveniently engineered us with neurons that, when they detect chemical changes in the blood, make us vomit.

安德鲁：大自然很方便地为我们设计了神经元，当它们检测到血液中的化学变化时，就会让我们呕吐。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

To touch on that is what we found is if we start with, again, a micro-dose and go slowly with the GLP-1s, the nausea is virtually unheard of.

谈到这一点，我们发现，如果我们再次从微剂量开始，然后慢慢服用 GLP-1，恶心几乎是闻所未闻的。

Not saying it doesn't occur, but it's super rare if you just take your time with it.

并不是说这种情况不会发生，但如果你花点时间的话，这种情况是非常罕见的。

I think the people that have the most problems is they're shotgunning the dose essentially.

我认为遇到最多问题的人是他们本质上是在用散弹枪注射剂量。

You're overwhelming your system.

你的系统不堪重负。

Andrew: I have two more questions.

安德鲁：我还有两个问题。

The first one is a bit of a controversial one.

第一个是有点争议的。

Today, we've talked about a lot of peptides that you've observed incredible clinical utility for.

今天，我们讨论了许多肽，您已经观察到它们具有令人难以置信的临床效用。

We also talked about a lot of peptides that the FDA has banned, basically, to be blunt.

坦白说，我们还讨论了 FDA 禁止的许多肽。

We've also talked about peptides that at one point, not too long ago, were considered part of a niche culture like fitness or bodybuilding culture that are now approaching what will probably be trillion-dollar industries over the next 10 years, things like GLP-1 agonists.

我们还讨论了肽，不久前，它们一度被认为是健身或健美文化等利基文化的一部分，而现在这些肽正在接近未来 10 年可能价值数万亿美元的产业，例如 GLP-1 激动剂。

Any listener with their neurons firing will put two and two together and say, "Okay, what's the deal?" Obviously, the FDA, I like to believe, has a genuine interest in our safety.

任何神经元放电的听众都会将两个和两个放在一起并说：“好吧，这是怎么回事？”显然，我愿意相信 FDA 对我们的安全真正感兴趣。

They don't want us taking things that are dangerous for us.

他们不希望我们拿走对我们来说有危险的东西。

At the same time, there seems to be a clawing back of what's out there and then a handing off to pharmaceutical companies to put out compounds for which there are tremendous profit margins.

与此同时，似乎有人在收回现有的产品，然后将其交给制药公司来生产利润率巨大的化合物。

Craig: Correct.

克雷格：正确。

Andrew: The profit margins on these are insane.

安德鲁：这些的利润率太高了。

Craig: We can't comprehend it.

克雷格：我们无法理解。

Andrew: We can't comprehend it.

安德鲁：我们无法理解。

MK-677, I crossed out, right?

MK-677，我划掉了，对吧？

The FDA grabbed that one.

FDA 抓住了那个。

Thymosin alpha-1, crossed out.

胸腺素α-1，划掉。

A bunch of other things that have been-- BPC-157, clawed back.

还有一堆其他的东西——BPC-157，被收回了。

How should we frame this in our mind?

我们应该如何在脑海中构建这一点？

In other words, do you think that the FDA has genuine good intentions of trying to protect the general public, and that's why they're doing this, or is this a plan to make that appear to be the case so that these can then be sold at a very, very high profit margin?

换句话说，您是否认为 FDA 确实有试图保护公众的良好意愿，这就是他们这样做的原因，或者这是一个计划，使情况看起来如此，以便这些产品可以以非常非常高的利润率出售？

Perhaps it could be both, right?

也许两者皆有，对吧？

It's not an either or.

这不是一个非此即彼的问题。

I want to be very clear, I work at a major medical school, but I'll speak freely anyway, as would my colleagues.

我想说得很清楚，我在一所主要的医学院工作，但无论如何我都会自由发言，我的同事也是如此。

I like to think that these governing bodies have some people there, at least, with very good intentions.

我认为这些管理机构中至少有一些人怀有良好的意愿。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: I don't think it's a bunch of bad people writhing their hands together with getting kickbacks on pharma.

安德鲁：我不认为这是一群坏人联合起来从制药公司获取回扣。

I don't believe that.

我不相信。

In fact, I know that not to be the case.

事实上，我知道事实并非如此。

What's really going on here?

这里究竟发生了什么？

Because this is weird.

因为这很奇怪。

There's this huge class of compounds we call peptides that clearly have immensely beneficial uses in the right dosage, in the right hands, with the right physicians.

有一大类我们称之为肽的化合物，在正确的剂量、正确的人手中、由正确的医生指导下，显然具有非常有益的用途。

They're being clawed back.

他们正在被抓回来。

Why?

为什么？

Craig: It's confusing.

克雷格：这很令人困惑。

I think it's probably both.

我想可能两者都是。

I would say that, unfortunately, a lot of times when the government acts, they overreach.

我想说，不幸的是，很多时候政府采取行动时，他们会做得太过分。

I do think they probably have good intentions.

我确实认为他们可能有良好的意图。

I think there's probably sound reasons to want to have oversight of things that seemingly is the Wild, Wild West.

我认为可能有充分的理由想要对看似狂野的西部事物进行监督。

There's truth to that, because peptides came on the scene, and people started using them.

这是事实，因为肽出现了，人们开始使用它们。

They're recommended here and there.

到处都有推荐它们。

People could get them from, still can, research companies.

人们可以从研究公司获得它们，现在仍然可以。

There's not a lot of corralling, of understanding, well, what is going on?

没有太多的凝聚力和理解，那么，到底发生了什么？

I'm sure there's an element to, "Hey, let's understand this better." On that side, I think they went too far, because I think if you really look at data or if you were really interested in that, there's ways to understand how things work without removing them from the marketplace.

我确信其中有一个元素，“嘿，让我们更好地理解这一点。”在这方面，我认为他们走得太远了，因为我认为如果你真正关注数据或者你真的对此感兴趣，就有办法了解事物是如何运作的，而无需将它们从市场上移除。

The other side of me is like, just like we're talking about, Ozempic and Mounjaro, semiglutide and trizepatide, are blockbuster drugs.

我的另一面就像我们正在谈论的那样，Ozempic 和 Mounjaro、塞米鲁肽和曲泽帕肽都是重磅药物。

If you're a pharmaceutical company and you see that there's 15 to 20 other peptides which are really working and really working, because again, we've just seen the clinical response over and over and over, it's not a large leap to think, "Hey, if we're a pharmaceutical company, what if we turn that peptide, which was available to the commoner, for lack of a better term, into a drug?"

如果你是一家制药公司，你看到有 15 到 20 种其他肽确实有效，而且确实有效，因为我们刚刚一遍又一遍地看到临床反应，那么思考“嘿，如果我们是一家制药公司，如果我们将那种普通人可以使用的肽（由于缺乏更好的术语）变成药物，会怎么样？”

Andrew: Oh, like Vyleesi.

安德鲁：哦，就像维利斯一样。

That was done for melanocyte-stimulating hormone pathways.

这是针对黑素细胞刺激激素途径进行的。

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

I'm sure, I think it's both.

我确信，我认为两者都是。

That's why I go back to-- We have to operate within certain boundaries.

这就是为什么我要回到——我们必须在一定的范围内运作。

That's great.

那太棒了。

We have to understand these boundaries.

我们必须理解这些界限。

I say this sincerely, when we're talking about healthcare, when we're talking about people's health, we're not even close to talking about the truth for most things.

我真诚地说，当我们谈论医疗保健时，当我们谈论人们的健康时，我们甚至还没有接近谈论大多数事情的真相。

We're not talking about why people get chronic disease.

我们不是在谈论人们为什么会患慢性病。

We're not talking about how our food is really over-processed, and the availability of high-quality nutrients and what that means.

我们不是在谈论我们的食物实际上是如何过度加工的，以及高质量营养素的可用性及其意味着什么。

We're not talking about all the toxicities.

我们并不是在谈论所有的毒性。

We just look at roundup, glyphosate, and its interference with so many pathways in the body, and people say, Monsanto and whoever runs that now saying it's so safe, and it's just not true.

我们只关注农达、草甘膦及其对体内许多途径的干扰，人们说，孟山都公司和任何经营该公司的人现在都说它非常安全，但事实并非如此。

I think it's in line with, and what I support is, unfortunately and fortunately, as an individual, you have to be your own best advocate.

我认为这是符合的，而且我支持的是，不幸的是，幸运的是，作为个人，你必须成为自己最好的倡导者。

You can't rely on someone to say, particularly the government, that you have permission or not permission to do this.

您不能依赖某人（尤其是政府）来决定您是否获得许可这样做。

If you think it's best for people to do their own research, seek out reliable information.

如果您认为人们最好自己进行研究，请寻找可靠的信息。

Start here.

从这里开始。

You guys vet so much stuff, very safe place for people to be like, "This is where I want to start." Then life is, you learn by exploring and seeing what works for you.

你们审查了很多东西，对于人们来说非常安全的地方，“这就是我想开始的地方。”那么生活就是，你通过探索和看看什么对你有用来学习。

It's like you start with a recipe to cook.

就像你从食谱开始做饭一样。

Some people like it saltier.

有些人喜欢咸一点。

Some people like it spicier.

有些人喜欢吃辣一点的。

You got to see what works best for you, and that's why I seek out other people, people like myself, other physicians, other people who have experience saying, "Hey, we'll help you guide you in this." That's where the magic happens.

你必须看到什么最适合你，这就是为什么我寻找其他人，像我这样的人，其他医生，其他有经验的人说，“嘿，我们会帮助你在这方面指导你。”这就是奇迹发生的地方。

To be honest, we're not being truthful in many levels when we talk about health.

老实说，当我们谈论健康时，我们在很多层面上都没有说实话。

We spend so much money for what?

我们花那么多钱干什么？

We're not making a dent in chronic disease.

我们并没有在慢性疾病方面取得进展。

We're not making an impact.

我们没有产生影响。

We're not helping people lead better lives.

我们没有帮助人们过上更好的生活。

Medicine is great for life and death things.

医学对于生死攸关的事情非常有用。

It really is.

确实如此。

In August of 2020, I had terrible abdominal pain.

2020年8月，我的腹痛非常厉害。

I just come back from visiting our friends in Hawaii.

我刚从夏威夷拜访朋友回来。

I tried to treat myself unsuccessfully.

我尝试善待自己，但没有成功。

Eventually, it was on Labor Day.

终于，到了劳动节。

I had so much pain.

我非常痛苦。

The next day, I called my friend who's a radiologist and said I needed to do a CAT scan.

第二天，我打电话给我的放射科医生朋友，说我需要做 CAT 扫描。

I did the CAT scan.

我做了CAT扫描。

He called me on the way back to the office.

他在回办公室的路上给我打电话。

I had a blood clot in the vein going to my liver that had completely cut off.

我通往肝脏的静脉中有一个血块，已经完全切断。

I almost died.

我差点就死了。

It was really serious.

这真的很严重。

I had to be hospitalized.

我不得不住院。

I'm on blood thinners now.

我现在正在服用血液稀释剂。

I am forever grateful for pharmaceuticals, saved my life.

我永远感激药物救了我的命。

Those same medicines aren't probably going to help me lead my best life.

这些相同的药物可能不会帮助我过上最好的生活。

It's challenging.

这很有挑战性。

Having been educated in a very formal conventional medical system, which is dominated by the pharmaceutical industry, is a problem.

在由制药业主导的非常正规的传统医疗系统中接受教育是一个问题。

We go back to the Flexner Report, which is like 1917, 1915 or something, where they studied medical education and basically said, "If you're a medical school and you're not promoting pharmaceuticals and in line, and we're going to kick out alternative remedies and modalities like chiropractic and acupuncture and nutrition.

我们回到 1917 年、1915 年之类的弗莱克斯纳报告，他们研究了医学教育，基本上说，“如果你是一所医学院，并且不推广药品，那么我们将淘汰替代疗法和模式，如脊椎按摩疗法、针灸和营养学。

They don't count anymore."

他们已经不再重要了。”

That's where we are.

这就是我们现在的情况。

The only thing that matters, and we see it as a society, we're deemed healthy by the pills we take.

唯一重要的是，我们将其视为一个社会，我们通过服用的药物被认为是健康的。

If we're going to be really honest, those pills aren't making us healthy, and by and large, they're not even making us well anymore.

说实话，这些药物并不能让我们变得健康，而且总的来说，它们甚至不能让我们变得更好。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

I think it's time, and it's wonderful to have this form to be able to talk about, this is why I support so many other people talking about it, we need to make a change in that we need to start being honest about what we're doing.

我认为是时候了，能够以这种形式进行讨论真是太好了，这就是为什么我支持这么多其他人谈论它，我们需要做出改变，因为我们需要开始诚实地对待我们正在做的事情。

Our health is not going to be coming from doctors saying, taking this pill or that potion.

我们的健康不会来自于医生所说的服用这种药或那种药水。

It's not.

它不是。

Not at this stage.

不是现阶段。

It's more likely that people are going to feel healthy from seeing their trainer in their gym.

人们更有可能因为在健身房看到教练而感到健康。

This is why these things go to the gray market or black market.

这就是为什么这些东西进入灰色市场或黑市。

These people actually get results.

这些人确实得到了结果。

It's just sad but true.

这只是悲伤但却是事实。

To answer your question, I think it's both.

回答你的问题，我认为两者都有。

I think the pharmaceutical companies are greedy.

我认为制药公司很贪婪。

I think they like making money.

我认为他们喜欢赚钱。

I think they also like helping people.

我认为他们也喜欢帮助别人。

They want to help people, but it comes with a big cost.

他们想帮助人们，但这需要付出巨大的代价。

The government's there to corral that, but like most things, the government does that go too far.

政府的职责是遏制这种情况，但像大多数事情一样，政府做得太过分了。

I think we need to be honest about those discussions, and it's not threatening and it's not harmful.

我认为我们需要诚实地对待这些讨论，这不是威胁，也不是有害的。

Just to be saying, "Hey, how do we make this better and how do we even agree to disagree?" Let's just start there.

只是说，“嘿，我们如何让这变得更好，我们如何同意不同意？”让我们从这里开始吧。

Andrew: I really appreciate your take.

安德鲁：我真的很感谢你的看法。

I, too, rely on prescription drugs now and again.

我也时不时地依赖处方药。

I don't know, maybe I'll lose some following for saying this, but I've had some situations where it made sense to take an antibiotic after surgery or something.

我不知道，也许我会因为这么说而失去一些追随者，但我遇到过一些情况，在手术后或其他情况下服用抗生素是有意义的。

I'm not anti-antibiotics.

我不抗抗生素。

I also don't eat them like M&Ms. Everything you said, I generally agree with.

我也不喜欢像巧克力豆那样吃它们。你所说的一切，我基本上都同意。

I don't have the clinical expertise or the nuance to really understand these governing bodies.

我没有临床专业知识或细微差别来真正了解这些管理机构。

That's one of the reasons why I'm asking today, and I really appreciate you shedding light on this.

这就是我今天提出这个问题的原因之一，我非常感谢您对此进行阐述。

I think you're clearly a truth teller.

我认为你显然是一个说真话的人。

You're telling us your truth, from the clinical perspective, but it's clear you also have a broad optics here, and we appreciate that.

您从临床角度告诉我们您的真相，但很明显您在这里也有广泛的视野，我们对此表示赞赏。

Craig: Sure.

克雷格：当然。

Andrew: This podcast has always been about bringing in diverse outlooks on the same things.

安德鲁：这个播客一直致力于引入对同一事物的不同观​​点。

It's been wonderful today to be able to explore peptides, NAD, and this issues of FDA approval and FDA removal, as the case may be.

今天能够探索肽、NAD 以及 FDA 批准和 FDA 删除的问题（视情况而定）真是太棒了。

You said something earlier a couple of times, that I'd like to finish up on.

你之前说过几次，我想结束。

You talked about positive thoughts.

你谈到了积极的想法。

You're a physician?

你是医生？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: Not a psychologist?

安德鲁：不是心理学家？

Craig: No.

克雷格：不。

Andrew: But you're a physician, and you're in the business of making people feel better.

安德鲁：但你是一名医生，你的职责是让人们感觉更好。

It's clear to me that, among your many talents, you have great powers of observation.

我很清楚，在你众多的才能中，你具有很强的观察力。

What is this thing about positive thoughts?

积极的想法是怎么回事？

There are a lot of immunological data out there showing that stress makes us sick.

有大量免疫学数据表明压力会使我们生病。

If we stress too long, repeatedly for too long.

如果我们压力太久，反复太久。

Stress in the short period is actually good for us, right?

短期的压力实际上对我们有好处，对吗？

Craig: Yes.

克雷格：是的。

Andrew: There are some data showing that positive thoughts can enhance immune system function, et cetera.

安德鲁：有一些数据表明积极的想法可以增强免疫系统功能等等。

The data are pretty cool.

数据非常酷。

Clinically, however, what's your observation about mindset and health?

然而，从临床角度来看，您对心态和健康有何观察？

Craig: I think we're just scratching the surface, and I think it is the most profound way to effect your life.

克雷格：我认为我们只是触及了表面，我认为这是影响你生活的最深刻的方式。

There's a couple things I'll say about it.

对此我要说几件事。

One, no good has ever come from a negative thought.

第一，消极的想法永远不会带来任何好处。

Nothing ever good has come from a negative thought.

消极的想法不会产生任何好的结果。

Because all of us have a choice about every decision we make, to me, it's always best to slant that decision in a positive frame.

因为我们所有人都可以选择做出的每一个决定，对我来说，最好以积极的态度来做出决定。

Now, it doesn't mean you're fake about it.

现在，这并不意味着你是假的。

People really suffer.

人们确实很痛苦。

It is a very stressful time right now.

现在是一个压力很大的时期。

Maybe the most stressful time in human history.

也许是人类历史上压力最大的时期。

There's no need to gloss over it and saying life is peaches and cream, because it's not for a lot of people.

没有必要掩饰这一点，说生活是桃子和奶油，因为它不适合很多人。

What I know just personally and professional, is that when you start pivoting towards positivity, you get more positivity.

我个人和职业上所知道的是，当你开始转向积极性时，你就会变得更加积极。

All of us, every single human, has that opportunity to do that.

我们所有人，每一个人，都有机会做到这一点。

Some people, it's way harder choices.

对于某些人来说，这是更困难的选择。

They are dealt a much more challenging and difficult hand, lots of people.

他们面临着更具挑战性和困难的局面，很多人。

If we think about it, we didn't get to choose our eye color.

如果我们仔细想想，我们无法选择眼睛的颜色。

We didn't get to choose our family.

我们没有权利选择我们的家庭。

We didn't get to choose where we were born or how we were brought up, but we do get to choose how we respond to those things.

我们无法选择自己出生在哪里或如何长大，但我们可以选择如何应对这些事情。

What I've learned is, there's never enough positive I can exude.

我学到的是，我永远无法散发出足够的积极情绪。

There's never enough positivity I can be around, ever in my life.

在我的一生中，我身边的积极性永远都不够。

It is just the most amazing thing, and it can never be taken from you.

这是最令人惊奇的东西，它永远无法从你手中夺走。

When we talk about success, and longevity, and health span, to me, positivity has to be a part of that, because the mindset of positivity will override almost everything, literally.

当我们谈论成功、长寿和健康时，对我来说，积极性必须成为其中的一部分，因为积极性的心态几乎会压倒一切。

I can't tell you how that happens on a biochemical or a physiologic basis, but I know it to be a truth.

我无法告诉你这在生化或生理学基础上是如何发生的，但我知道这是事实。

I know it in the core of my being, that the more positive I am, the more I can influence other people, and plant seeds, and help people be more positive.

我内心深处知道，我越积极，就越能影响他人，播种种子，帮助人们变得更加积极。

That is something that I cherish, and just love, and is not talked about enough.

这是我所珍视、热爱的事情，但人们谈论得还不够多。

Especially as a physician, we're talking about the science, and, "Oh, this study," and putting people on this medicine, but really, the value, and I made this decision back in 2010, because I had my own practice, and I decided to stop taking insurance.

尤其是作为一名医生，我们谈论的是科学，“哦，这项研究”，让人们服用这种药物，但实际上，它的价值，我在 2010 年就做出了这个决定，因为我有自己的实践，我决定停止购买保险。

It wasn't a money thing.

这不是钱的事。

It wasn't like, "Oh." It was because I was no longer valuable taking 5 to 7 minutes with each person and seeing 40 patients a day.

这不像是“哦”。这是因为我每天花 5 到 7 分钟与每个人会面 40 个病人已经不再有价值。

For me, I felt like I'm not fulfilling my purpose here when I'm just writing prescriptions.

对我来说，当我只是开处方时，我觉得我没有达到我的目的。

That my purpose will be fulfilled if I can really have conversations where I get to know people.

如果我能真正通过对话来认识别人，我的目的就实现了。

Peptides and NAD tie into that because they are gateways to build trust with me, so that I can actually help you, an individual, learn how to be more positive, and to slant yourself and have that posture.

肽和 NAD 与此相关，因为它们是与我建立信任的门户，这样我就可以真正帮助你，一个人，学习如何变得更加积极，如何倾斜自己并保持这种姿势。

Because, ultimately, all of us need the energy and want the energy to find out purpose.

因为归根结底，我们所有人都需要能量，并且希望用能量来找到目标。

Once you find that purpose, oh my goodness, life gets magical, because we're all unique.

一旦你找到了这个目标，天哪，生活就会变得神奇，因为我们都是独一无二的。

We all have a different DNA structure.

我们都有不同的 DNA 结构。

God gave us that.

上帝给了我们这个。

To be unique, to shine our light, to contribute, to help others.

变得独一无二，闪耀我们的光芒，做出贡献，帮助他人。

Most people don't know about that because they're in pain, or they're tired or whatever, they're suffering.

大多数人不知道这一点，因为他们正在痛苦，或者他们很累，或者其他什么，他们正在受苦。

If we can help walk people through that, and help them heal that, that's going to get really good.

如果我们能够帮助人们度过这个难关，并帮助他们治愈这个问题，那将会变得非常好。

That's just what I enjoy doing.

这正是我喜欢做的事情。

Andrew: Beautifully said.

安德鲁：说得漂亮。

Craig: Thank you.

克雷格：谢谢。

Andrew: So grateful to you for doing that within your clinical practice, for making that decision a few years back, to shift over to being aligned with your purpose, and the way that you've now expended your practice to public education.

安德鲁：非常感谢您在临床实践中这样做，感谢您几年前做出的决定，转向与您的目的保持一致，以及您现在将实践扩展到公共教育的方式。

We'll provide links to your practice and to your public education-

我们将提供您的实践和公共教育的链接-

Craig: Thank you.

克雷格：谢谢。

Andrew: -efforts, and for coming here to do this significant public education effort about peptides and other compounds and regulatory bodies, and also just the field of medicine.

安德鲁：努力，并来到这里进行有关肽和其他化合物和监管机构以及医学领域的重要公共教育工作。

Also just, I think so often we hear from scientists or from physicians, and we forget the human component.

而且，我认为我们经常听到科学家或医生的意见，而我们却忘记了人的成分。

What's so beautiful about what you do and the way you do it, is that your humanity really comes through.

你所做的事情以及你做事的方式的美妙之处在于你的人性真正得以体现。

Craig: Oh, I appreciate that.

克雷格：哦，我很感激。

Andrew: It really does.

安德鲁：确实如此。

Craig: I appreciate that.

克雷格：我很欣赏这一点。

Andrew: I can tell you really care.

安德鲁：我可以告诉你你真的很关心。

I know our listeners and viewers can tell as well.

我知道我们的听众和观众也能看出来。

Craig: Thank you.

克雷格：谢谢。

Andrew: As this field evolves and advances, please come back and talk to us again.

Andrew：随着这个领域的发展和进步，请回来再次与我们交谈。

Craig: I'd love to.

克雷格：我很乐意。

Andrew: Meanwhile, again, we'll provide links so that people can find you, and some of the resources that back up what we've discussed today.

安德鲁：同时，我们将再次提供链接，以便人们可以找到您，以及支持我们今天讨论的内容的一些资源。

Craig, Dr. Koniver, thank you ever so much.

克雷格、科尼弗博士，非常感谢你们。

Craig: Well, thank you, Andrew.

克雷格：好的，谢谢你，安德鲁。

No, it's really, I'm so honored to be here.

不，真的，我很荣幸来到这里。

I respect and love the work you're doing and the light you're shining, and you're helping so many.

我尊重并热爱你所做的工作和你所闪耀的光芒，你帮助了很多人。

You have such a wide audience that trusts you.

你有如此广泛的观众信任你。

It's amazing.

太棒了。

Like I said, I see it every day with people coming to me and bouncing what you do and saying, "Hey, is this good for me?" That is amazing.

就像我说的，我每天都会看到有人来找我，对你所做的事情进行评论，并说：“嘿，这对我有好处吗？”这真是太棒了。

I love that.

我喜欢那个。

That's how we get better.

这就是我们如何变得更好。

We help support each other.

我们互相帮助、互相支持。

I just appreciate what you're doing.

我只是欣赏你所做的事情。

Being here is truly an honor, really a big deal for me.

来到这里确实是一种荣幸，对我来说真的很重要。

Thank you.

谢谢。

Andrew: Thank you.

安德鲁：谢谢。

I'll take that in and write back at you.

我会把它记下来并给你回信。

Come back again.

再回来吧。

Craig: I appreciate it.

克雷格：我很感激。

Andrew: I appreciate you.

安德鲁：我很欣赏你。

Thank you.

谢谢。

Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Craig Koniver.

感谢您参加今天与 Craig Koniver 博士的讨论。

To learn more about his work and his clinic, as well as to find links to some of the things discussed in today's episode, please see the show note captions.

要了解有关他的工作和诊所的更多信息，以及找到今天剧集中讨论的一些内容的链接，请参阅节目注释标题。

If you'd like to learn more about peptides, including some of the ones that we discussed today, but also some additional ones, please see the link to the solo episode that I did about peptide therapies in the captions.

如果您想了解有关肽的更多信息，包括我们今天讨论的一些肽，还有一些其他肽，请参阅我在标题中制作的有关肽疗法的单独节目的链接。

If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.

如果您正在学习或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。

That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.

这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。

In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on both Spotify and Apple.

此外，请在 Spotify 和 Apple 上订阅该播客。

On both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.

在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。

Please check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.

请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。

That's the best way to support this podcast.

这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。

If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast, or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comment section on YouTube.

如果您对我有疑问或对播客有意见，或者您希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑嘉宾或主题，请将这些内容放入 YouTube 的评论部分。

I do read all the comments.

我确实阅读了所有评论。

For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.

对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。

It's my very first book.

这是我的第一本书。

It's entitled Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body.

它的标题是《协议：人体操作手册》。

This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience.

这本书是我花了五年多时间编写的，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验。

It covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise, to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation.

它涵盖了从睡眠到锻炼、压力控制、与注意力和动机相关的所有协议。

Of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.

当然，我为所包含的协议提供了科学依据。

The book is now available by pre-sale at protocolsbook.com.

该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。

There you can find links to various vendors, you can pick the one that you like best.

在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接，您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。

Again, the book is called Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body.

同样，这本书的名字是《协议：人体操作手册》。

If you're not already following me on social media, I am Huberman Lab on all social media platforms.

如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 Huberman Lab。

That's Instagram, X, formerly known as Twitter, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

这就是 Instagram、X，以前称为 Twitter、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。

On all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the content on the Huberman Lab podcast.

在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容不同。

Again, that's Huberman Lab on all social media channels.

同样，这是所有社交媒体渠道上的 Huberman Lab。

If you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, our Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as protocols in the form of brief one to three-page PDFs.

如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络新闻通讯，我们的神经网络新闻通讯是一份零成本的每月新闻通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及简短的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议。

Those protocol PDFs are on things like neuroplasticity and learning, optimizing dopamine, improving your sleep, deliberate cold exposure, deliberate heat exposure.

这些 PDF 协议涉及神经可塑性和学习、优化多巴胺、改善睡眠、刻意冷暴露、刻意热暴露等内容。

We have a foundational fitness protocol that describes a template routine that includes cardiovascular training and resistance training with sets and reps, all backed by science, and all of which again is completely zero cost.

我们有一个基本的健身协议，描述了一个模板程序，其中包括心血管训练和阻力训练（包括组数和次数），所有这些都有科学支持，而且所有这些又完全是零成本。

To subscribe, simply go to HubermanLab.com, go to the menu tab up in the upper right corner, scroll down a newsletter, and provide your email.

要订阅，只需访问 HubermanLab.com，转到右上角的菜单选项卡，向下滚动新闻通讯，然后提供您的电子邮件。

I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.

我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。

Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Craig Koniver.

再次感谢您参加今天与 Craig Koniver 博士的讨论。

Last, but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.

最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。