Dr. Craig Heller: Using Temperature for Performance, Brain & Body Health
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
Today, I have the pleasure of introducing Dr. Craig Heller as my guest on the Huberman Lab podcast.
今天，我很荣幸地介绍克雷格·海勒博士作为我的休伯曼实验室播客的嘉宾。
Dr. Heller is a professor of biology and neurosciences at Stanford.
海勒博士是斯坦福大学生物学和神经科学教授。
His laboratory works on a range of topics, including thermal regulation, Down syndrome and circadian rhythms.
他的实验室致力于一系列主题，包括热调节、唐氏综合症和昼夜节律。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Today, we talk about thermal regulation, how the body heats and cools itself and maintains what we call homeostasis, which is an equilibrium of processes that keeps our neurons healthy, our organs functioning well, and, as Dr. Heller teaches us, thermal regulation can be leveraged in order to greatly increase our performance in athletics, and mental performance, as well.
今天，我们谈论热调节，身体如何自我加热和冷却并维持我们所说的稳态，这是保持我们的神经元健康、我们的器官功能良好的过程的平衡，并且，正如海勒博士教导我们的那样，可以利用热调节来大大提高我们的运动表现和心理表现。
Learning to control your core body temperature is one of the most, if not the most, powerful thing that you can do to optimize mental and physical performance, regardless of the environment that you're in.
无论您所处的环境如何，学习控制核心体温是您可以优化精神和身体表现的最有效的事情之一（即使不是最有效的）。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He also dispels many common myths about heating and cooling the body, including the idea that putting a cold pack on your head or neck is the optimal way to cool down quickly.
他还消除了许多关于加热和冷却身体的常见误解，包括将冰袋放在头部或颈部是快速降温的最佳方法的想法。
And in fact, as Dr. Heller tells us, it actually can be counterproductive and lead to hyperthermia.
事实上，正如海勒博士告诉我们的那样，它实际上可能适得其反并导致体温过高。
It's a fascinating conversation from which I learned a tremendous amount of new information, and we didn't even get into the other incredibly interesting work that Dr. Heller does on Down syndrome and circadian rhythms and sleep, so we hope to have him back in the future to discuss those topics.
这是一次引人入胜的对话，我从中学到了大量新信息，我们甚至没有讨论海勒博士在唐氏综合症、昼夜节律和睡眠方面所做的其他令人难以置信的有趣工作，所以我们希望他将来回来讨论这些话题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As you'll soon see, Dr. Heller is a wealth of knowledge on all things human physiology, biology and human performance.
您很快就会看到，海勒博士在人类生理学、生物学和人类表现方面拥有丰富的知识。
It's no surprise then that he's been Chair of the Biology Department at Stanford for many years, as well as Director of the Human Biology program.
因此，他多年来担任斯坦福大学生物学系主任以及人类生物学项目主任也就不足为奇了。
So, if you're interested in human biology and how to improve your performance in any context or setting, athletic or otherwise, I think you'll very much enjoy today's conversation.
因此，如果您对人类生物学以及如何在任何环境或环境（运动或其他方面）中提高自己的表现感兴趣，我想您会非常喜欢今天的对话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
And now for my discussion with Dr. Craig Heller.
现在我与克雷格·海勒博士进行讨论。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great to have you here.
很高兴你来到这里。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It's good to be here.
很高兴来到这里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's been a long time coming.
已经很久了。
I know that I and many people have a lot of questions about the use of cold.
我知道我和很多人对于冷敷的使用都有很多疑问。
One of the things that's happened in recent years is that, for many reasons, people have become interested in things like taking cold showers and taking ice baths for many different purposes.
近年来发生的事情之一是，由于多种原因，人们对出于多种不同目的洗冷水澡和冰浴等事情产生了兴趣。
Sometimes this is introduced as just a general health tonic, but other times people get specific about how it can improve resilience or it can improve one's metabolism.
有时，这只是作为一种一般的健康补品而引入，但有时人们会具体了解它如何提高弹性或改善新陈代谢。
Could you just tell me a little bit about what happens when I get into a cold shower or an ice bath?
你能告诉我一些当我洗冷水澡或冰浴时会发生什么吗？
What are some of the basic responses at the level of metabolism, obviously psychologically we don't know exactly, it'll vary from person to person, but what happens when I submerge myself into an ice bath if I've never done it before?
新陈代谢层面的一些基本反应是什么，显然在心理上我们并不确切知道，它会因人而异，但是如果我以前从未做过的话，当我将自己浸入冰浴中时会发生什么？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, first of all, you'd get a tremendous shock, and what that's going to translate into is a bit of a shot of adrenaline.
嗯，首先，你会感到巨大的震惊，这会转化为一点肾上腺素。
I think this is really the so-called benefit, but I wouldn't call it a benefit, of the cryo chambers.
我认为这确实是冷冻室所谓的好处，但我不会称之为好处。
You go into a cryo chamber and it's a shock, so you get a shot of adrenaline.
当你进入冷冻室时，你会感到震惊，所以你会注射肾上腺素。
So sure, you're going to feel different when you come out.
当然，当你出来的时候，你会有不一样的感觉。
You've had a shot of adrenaline, but it doesn't necessarily translate into any benefit in terms of your physiology or performance and so forth.
你已经注射了肾上腺素，但它并不一定会转化为你的生理或表现等方面的任何好处。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Now, if you take a cold bath or a cold shower, a couple things are happening.
现在，如果你洗冷水澡或冷水淋浴，就会发生一些事情。
One is you're going to stimulate vasoconstriction.
一是你会刺激血管收缩。
So, if anything, it's going to make it a little bit more difficult for your body to get rid of heat because you're shutting off your avenues of heat loss.
所以，如果有什么不同的话，那就是你的身体更难排出热量，因为你关闭了热量散失的途径。
If you're in a true cold bath, the overall surface area of your body is so great that it doesn't matter if you're vasoconstricted, you're still going to lose heat.
如果你洗的是真正的冷水浴，你身体的整体表面积很大，即使你的血管收缩也没关系，你仍然会失去热量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, so vasoconstriction, the constriction of — is it capillaries, vessels and arteries all constrict, or just one or two?
好的，血管收缩，毛细血管、血管和动脉都收缩，还是只有一两个收缩？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, this is an area of controversy.
嗯，这是一个有争议的领域。
In general, when people talk of vasoconstriction, they talk of the overall skin surface.
一般来说，当人们谈论血管收缩时，他们谈论的是整个皮肤表面。
That is not true.
那不是真的。
The primary sites of heat loss, which we're going to get into, are the palms of your hands, the soles of your feet and the upper part of your face.
我们要讨论的主要热量散失部位是手掌、脚底和脸部的上半部分。
The reason these are avenues for heat loss is they're underlain by special blood vessels, and these blood vessels are able to shunt the blood from the arteries, which are coming from the heart, directly to the veins, which are returning to the heart, and bypassing the capillaries, which are the nutritive vessels, but high resistance.
这些是热量散失途径的原因是它们下面有特殊的血管，这些血管能够将来自心脏的动脉的血液直接分流到返回心脏的静脉，并绕过毛细血管，毛细血管是营养血管，但阻力很高。
You can tell when you shake someone's hand what his or her thermal status is, the hand's hot or it's cold.
当您与某人握手时，您可以判断出他或她的热状态，手是热的还是冷的。
That's it.
就是这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you think that's part of the reason why humans evolved this practice of shaking hands, assessing each other's level of anxiety?
你认为这是人类进化出握手、评估彼此焦虑程度的做法的部分原因吗？
We all know that a limp handshake is pretty indicative of something, and a firm handshake is indicative of something, as is the crushing handshake, for that matter.
我们都知道，无力的握手很能表明某事，而有力的握手也能表明某事，就这一点而言，握手也是如此。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah, I really don't know what the evolutionary origin of hand shaking is other than to get your hand away from your weapon, perhaps.
是的，我真的不知道握手的进化起源是什么，也许除了让你的手远离武器之外。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
A couple of questions before we get into these specialized vascular compartments on the soles, the palms and the upper face.
在我们了解脚底、手掌和上脸这些特殊的血管室之前，先回答几个问题。
You mentioned whole-body immersion, like into an ice bath or very cold water up to the neck, versus a cold shower.
您提到全身浸泡，例如冰浴或冷水至颈部，而不是冷水淋浴。
Is there something fundamentally different about those two besides the fact that they both provide this release of adrenaline?
除了它们都提供肾上腺素释放这一事实之外，这两者还有什么根本不同吗？
Is there anything that's really important to understand about the difference in the physiological response evoked by cold shower versus immersion in cold?
对于理解冷水淋浴和浸泡在冷水中所引起的生理反应的差异，有什么真正重要的事情吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, there are differences that are more physical than anything else.
好吧，存在比其他任何事情都更本质的差异。
If you are in a cold bath and you're still, you develop a boundary layer.
如果你在冷水浴中保持静止，就会形成边界层。
If you're in a shower, you can't develop a boundary layer.
如果你在淋浴，就无法形成边界层。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Could you explain what a boundary layer is?
您能解释一下什么是边界层吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yes.
是的。
It's best to explain it in terms of a hot bath, because everybody's experienced that.
最好用热水澡来解释，因为每个人都有过这样的经历。
You get into a hot bath and, oh my God, it's really hot, almost painful.
你洗了个热水澡，天哪，真的很热，几乎很痛。
And then you sit down and eventually it doesn't feel so hot anymore, because the still water, which is close to your skin, is coming into equilibrium with your skin.
然后你坐下来，最终感觉不再那么热了，因为靠近你皮肤的静水正在与你的皮肤达到平衡。
It's like having a blanket on you or an insulator on you.
这就像你身上有一条毯子或一个绝缘体。
Then if you move around, you disturb that still water layer, you feel the hot temperature again.
然后，如果你四处走动，就会扰乱静止的水层，你会再次感受到炎热的温度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I see.
我明白了。
If I were to get into a cold ice bath or a very cold body of water of some kind and stay still, I'd likely feel warmer.
如果我进入寒冷的冰浴或某种非常冷的水体并保持静止，我可能会感到温暖。
At least until I start-
至少在我开始之前-
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
You're not going to be losing as much heat.
你不会失去那么多的热量。
Right.
正确的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I see.
我明白了。
And then when I move-
然后当我移动时——
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
If you flail around, then you're going to lose more heat.
如果你四处乱动，那么你就会失去更多的热量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Got it.
明白了。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah.
是的。
But I think getting back to your original question about benefits; you have to keep in mind, whether you're talking about aerobic activity or anaerobic activity, if you're referring to performance and exercise and so forth.
但我想回到你最初关于福利的问题；你必须记住，无论你是在谈论有氧活动还是无氧活动，如果你指的是表现和锻炼等等。
If you're doing aerobic activity that you can sustain for a long time, your production of heat is rising gradually and is being distributed throughout your body, so eventually your body temperature's going to come up to a level that's going to impair your performance.
如果您进行可以长时间维持的有氧运动，您产生的热量会逐渐增加并分布到您的全身，因此您的体温最终会达到会损害您表现的水平。
The benefit of a cold bath or a cold shower before aerobic activity is that you increase the capacity of your body mass to absorb that excess heat.
有氧运动前洗冷水澡或冷水淋浴的好处是可以增加身体吸收多余热量的能力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I see.
我明白了。
Could you say in a rough sense that a protocol that one might use if they're going to head out for a long run, even on a reasonably warm day, not super hot, or maybe it is super hot, would be to take a cool shower before they go run?
你能粗略地说，如果一个人要进行长时间的跑步，即使是在相当温暖的一天，不是非常热，或者可能非常热，他们可能会使用的一种方案是在跑步前洗个凉水澡？
Would that be beneficial?
这会有好处吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Sure.
当然。
It'll take them longer to get to the sweat point and to heat up.
他们需要更长的时间才能达到出汗点并升温。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What will that translate to in terms of a performance-
这会转化为什么表现？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, could increase your speed, or it depends on how you use that benefit.
好吧，可以提高你的速度，或者这取决于你如何利用这个好处。
Some people are pacers, they will go at the same pace and then they will go farther, or some people are, I want to say pacers and regulators.
有些人是配速者，他们会以同样的速度走，然后走得更远，或者有些人是，我想说配速者和监管者。
No, pacers or forcers; they will take that advantage and use it up as fast as they can, so they will go faster, but not necessarily farther.
不，是步行者或强制者；他们会利用这一优势并尽快利用它，因此他们会走得更快，但不一定走得更远。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I see.
我明白了。
As far as I know, not many athletes, at least not the ones that I know, are getting into cool bodies of water or taking cold showers before they head out to train, but it sounds like there could be a real performance benefit there.
据我所知，没有多少运动员，至少是我认识的运动员，在出发训练之前进入凉爽的水体或洗冷水澡，但这听起来可能会对表现产生真正的好处。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It could be a benefit.
这可能是一个好处。
I know we're going to talk about our technology for cooling, but at one point, I don't know if they're using it now, but our cross-country team, when they would go to compete in a very hot place, they would do their warm-up exercises, their stretching, then they would extract heat before the beginning of the race.
我知道我们会谈论我们的冷却技术，但在某一时刻，我不知道他们现在是否在使用它，但是我们的越野队，当他们去一个非常热的地方比赛时，他们会做热身运动，伸展运动，然后他们会在比赛开始前排出热量。
I like to think of it as you have greater scope for heat absorption.
我喜欢这样认为，因为你有更大的吸热范围。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
About how long would one need to take one of these showers or cold immersions before heading out for a run?
在出门跑步之前，大约需要多长时间进行一次淋浴或冷水浸泡？
Roughly speaking, we don't have to get into details, because everyone's performance level and regimen is going to be different, where they live is going to be different, et cetera.
粗略地说，我们不必讨论细节，因为每个人的表现水平和养生方式都会有所不同，他们居住的地方也会有所不同，等等。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
It's not as long as you think.
它并不像你想象的那么长。
It's minutes.
几分钟了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A couple minutes?
几分钟？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah.
是的。
Because what's going to happen is as your core temperature goes down, you will eventually shut off your heat loss, and that keeps it from going below normal.
因为当你的核心温度下降时，你最终会停止热量损失，从而防止其低于正常水平。
If you're warmed up and your temperature has risen by half a degree, let's say, it doesn't take more than a few minutes to extract that heat if you're vasodilated.
比如说，如果您热身并且体温上升了半度，那么如果您的血管舒张，只需几分钟即可提取热量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
What about for the anaerobic athlete, the strength athlete?
对于无氧运动员和力量运动员来说呢？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right, for the anaerobic athlete, and let's say they're doing several sets and how many reps, whatever they're doing, their core temperature's not going to rise that fast, because it's only certain muscles which are being used, but the temperature of those muscles will go up.
是的，对于无氧运动员来说，假设他们做了几组和多少次，无论他们在做什么，他们的核心温度都不会上升那么快，因为只使用了某些肌肉，但这些肌肉的温度会上升。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it's a local effect?
那么这是局部效应吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It's a local effect.
这是局部效应。
Right.
正确的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Let's say for sake of today, maybe for this discussion, if we assume that the basic workout, even though people do a variation on this, is five sets of five or 10 sets of 10.
为了今天的目的，也许为了这个讨论，如果我们假设基本训练是五组每组五组或十组每组十组，即使人们对此进行了一些变化。
For those listening, it would be five sets of five repetitions, or 10 sets of 10 repetitions, 10 by 10, five by five.
对于那些听的人来说，这将是五组，每组五次重复，或者十组，每组十次重复，10×10，5×5。
Yeah.
是的。
If somebody, let's say, is doing a large-body compound movement like barbell squats, where there are a lot of large-body movements, hip hinging, et cetera, but for instance, the biceps, they're involved, but more or less indirectly.
比方说，如果有人正在做杠铃深蹲这样的大体量复合运动，其中有很多大体量运动、髋部铰链等，但例如二头肌，它们会参与其中，但或多或少是间接的。
The effect is going to be to heat up the quadriceps, heat up the ham strings, heat up the glutes, this kind of thing?
效果是加热股四头肌、加热火腿筋、加热臀肌，诸如此类？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I see.
我明白了。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
And then during rest, that heat will leave the muscle, but it's not fast.
然后在休息期间，热量会离开肌肉，但速度并不快。
Certainly, the heat can't leave the muscle very fast while you're working out because when the muscle contracts, it squeezes the blood vessels.
当然，当你锻炼时，热量不能很快离开肌肉，因为当肌肉收缩时，它会挤压血管。
The only way heat gets out of a muscle is in the blood, and your muscle metabolism can go up 50- or 60-fold during anaerobic activity.
肌肉散发热量的唯一途径是血液，在无氧活动期间，肌肉的新陈代谢可以提高 50 或 60 倍。
That means the heat production in the muscle goes up 50- or 60-fold.
这意味着肌肉产生的热量增加了 50 或 60 倍。
The blood flow to that muscle cannot go up 50- or 60-fold, so you literally have the capacity to cook your muscles.
流向该肌肉的血流量不会增加 50 或 60 倍，因此您实际上有能力煮掉您的肌肉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is probably an appropriate time to just mention briefly what the underlying mechanism of this is.
现在可能是简单提及其基本机制的适当时机。
Could you just?
你可以吗？
We will return to the specifics of what one can do to mitigate this heating up, but could you just explain the relationship between energy production, ATP and pyruvate kinase, and the role of heat there?
我们将回到如何减轻这种升温的具体细节，但您能否解释一下能量产生、ATP 和丙酮酸激酶之间的关系，以及热量在其中的作用？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Sure.
当然。
We don't get something for nothing.
我们不会不劳而获。
Like a steam engine, most of the energy in our food is lost as heat.
就像蒸汽机一样，我们食物中的大部分能量都以热量的形式损失掉了。
We are roughly about 20% efficient, so of the energy that we take in in our food, about 20% of that can go into doing work and the rest of it is lost is heat.
我们的效率大约为 20%，因此我们从食物中吸收的能量中，大约 20% 可以用于做功，其余的则以热量的形式损失掉。
Now, we're mammals.
现在，我们是哺乳动物。
We use that heat to keep our body temperature considerably above the environment, but if you raise body temperature a few degrees higher, you're in trouble.
我们利用这些热量来保持体温远高于环境温度，但如果你将体温提高几度，你就会遇到麻烦。
That's hyperthermia.
这就是高热。
Individual muscles can reach hyperthermic limits before you might experience it in the whole body.
在整个身体经历过高温之前，个别肌肉就已经达到了高温极限。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
To keep you from damaging your muscle by hypothermia, we have fail-safe mechanisms.
为了防止您的肌肉因体温过低而受损，我们设有故障安全机制。
One of those fail-safe mechanisms is an enzyme which is critical for getting fuel, in other words the results of metabolism, of glucose, getting that fuel into the mitochondria, which is making our major coinage of energy exchange, ATP.
其中一种自动防故障机制是一种酶，它对于获取燃料至关重要，换言之，葡萄糖代谢的结果，将燃料进入线粒体，线粒体是我们能量交换的主要创造物，ATP。
That particular enzyme is temperature sensitive, so when the muscle temperature gets above 39 or 39.5, it shuts off.
这种特殊的酶对温度敏感，因此当肌肉温度高于 39 或 39.5 时，它就会关闭。
That essentially shuts off the fuel supply to the mitochondria.
这基本上切断了线粒体的燃料供应。
That's when you cannot do one more rep.
那时你就不能再做一次了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Failure.
失败。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Muscle failure.
肌肉衰竭。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Could we say that one component of muscular failure is overheating of the muscle locally.
我们是否可以说，肌肉衰竭的一个组成部分是肌肉局部过热。
There are probably other things, too.
可能还有其他事情。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Well, if you lack oxygen, but our oxygen delivery is pretty good to the muscle.
好吧，如果您缺氧，但我们的氧气输送对肌肉来说非常好。
If you run out of glucose, yeah, that's going to impair you.
如果你的葡萄糖用完了，是的，这会对你造成损害。
But the most immediate, the most immediate impairment of muscle activity, muscle fatigue in other words, is the rise in temperature of the muscle.
但对肌肉活动最直接、最直接的损害，换句话说，肌肉疲劳，是肌肉温度的升高。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
I want to talk about how that muscle fails locally, but I have this burning question in my mind that I cannot seem to answer for myself.
我想谈谈那块肌肉是如何局部失效的，但我脑子里有一个紧迫的问题，我似乎无法自己回答。
I'm hoping you can answer it for me.
我希望你能为我解答。
Let's say I'm doing five sets of five with squats.
假设我正在进行五组五次深蹲。
I hit muscular failure at a given weight.
在给定的重量下，我出现了肌肉衰竭。
And according to what I now know, it's my quadriceps and the muscles associated with the squat that have failed because of this heat, triggering this mechanism, triggered by heat that shuts off the muscle.
据我现在所知，是我的股四头肌和与深蹲相关的肌肉因为这种热量而失效，触发了这种机制，由热量触发，从而关闭肌肉。
But my biceps are nice and cool, you're telling me.
但你告诉我，我的二头肌又漂亮又酷。
They're not doing too much work.
他们没有做太多的工作。
It's only indirect work.
这只是间接的工作。
So why is it that I can't set the bar down in the squat rack, walk over and do barbell curls with the same intensity that I could if I were to do those barbell curls fresh, not having done anything prior?
那么，为什么我不能将杠铃放在深蹲架上，走过去，以与我在之前没有做过任何事情的情况下做杠铃弯举时相同的强度呢？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, you will still have a fatigue curve with your upper body, and that will be influenced by any rise in temperature that has been generated by your lower body exercise.
好吧，您的上半身仍然会有疲劳曲线，并且这会受到下半身运动产生的任何温度升高的影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, temperature in both cases is the limiting factor?
那么，这两种情况下的温度都是限制因素吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It's one limiting factor.
这是限制因素之一。
It's one limiting factor.
这是限制因素之一。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I find that amazing.
我觉得这太棒了。
I find that amazing, because I always thought, naively, that the reason muscles fail is because we, quote, don't have the strength to do another repetition, or it's that you lack glycogen or some ability to access that glycogen.
我觉得这很神奇，因为我总是天真地认为，肌肉失败的原因是我们没有力量再做一次重复，或者是你缺乏糖原或获取糖原的能力。
But of course we still have glycogen.
但当然我们仍然有糖原。
It's naive for me to think that, because if I wait three minutes and go back, I can do those repetitions again, so the glycogen wasn't restored in that three minutes.
我这样想太天真了，因为如果我等三分钟然后回去，我可以再次重复这些动作，所以糖原在那三分钟内没有恢复。
Obviously it was there.
显然它就在那里。
I realize there might be other mechanisms involved.
我意识到可能还涉及其他机制。
It sounds like heat is, if not the dominant mechanism that prevents more work, it's one of them.
听起来热量即使不是阻止更多工作的主要机制，也是其中之一。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It's one of them, and it's a quick one.
这是其中之一，而且速度很快。
It's a fast one.
这是一个很快的。
It can happen with, let's say you are a really experienced weightlifter.
假设您是一位非常有经验的举重运动员，这种情况就会发生。
Okay?
好的？
You may be doing very, very high weights with sets of five or six.
你可能会做非常非常大的重量，每组五到六次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To be clear for the audience, I'm not doing very high weights with sets of five.
为了让观众清楚，我并没有以五组为一组进行很高的重量。
I'm not particularly strong.
我不是特别坚强。
I'm not super weak, but I'm not particularly strong, but Craig's referring in the general sense to you.
我不是超级弱，但也不是特别强，但克雷格指的是一般意义上的你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Why is it that if I finish a set of squats, I can't simply cool off my quadriceps by throwing a nice cool towel on my quadriceps?
为什么当我完成一组深蹲时，我不能简单地通过在股四头肌上扔一条凉爽的毛巾来冷却股四头肌？
Why is that not the best way to go about it?
为什么这不是最好的解决办法？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Because your body surface is a very good insulator.
因为你的身体表面是非常好的绝缘体。
Okay?
好的？
We think we don't have fur and therefore we're not insulated, but the skin, the fascia, the muscles underneath, they're all very good insulators.
我们认为我们没有皮毛，因此我们没有绝缘，但皮肤、筋膜、下面的肌肉，它们都是非常好的绝缘体。
That's why I said earlier that the way the heat gets out of the muscle is in the blood.
这就是为什么我之前说过热量从肌肉中散发出来的方式是在血液中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to step through a couple other portals by which one might think that heating and cooling would be ideal and then get back to these specialized surfaces on the hands, the feet and the face.
我想通过其他几个入口，人们可能会认为加热和冷却是理想的，然后回到手、脚和脸上的这些特殊表面。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If throwing a cold towel or even ice-cold towel on my quadriceps isn't going to work, or standing in front of the fan, because I'm insulated from that cool.
如果在我的股四头肌上扔一条冷毛巾甚至冰冷的毛巾都不起作用，或者站在风扇前，因为我与那种凉爽隔绝了。
I can't cool off my blood fast enough.
我无法足够快地冷却我的血液。
What about drinking 16 ounces of ice water?
喝16盎司冰水怎么样？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Sure, you can do that, but you can calculate how much heat that can absorb.
当然，您可以这样做，但您可以计算可以吸收多少热量。
And you can't continue drinking liters of ice water.
而且你不能继续喝几升冰水。
You're going to dilute your blood and have other problems.
你会稀释你的血液并出现其他问题。
But yes, it'll help.
但是，是的，它会有所帮助。
Sure, it will help.
当然，这会有帮助。
But it doesn't have the full capacity you will need.
但它不具备您所需的全部容量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What about an ice pack to the back of my neck or to my head or squeezing the cold sponge over the head?
将冰袋敷在颈后或头上，或者将冷海绵挤在头上怎么样？
I'm deliberately moving through these options because these are the ones that we see most often.
我故意浏览这些选项，因为这些是我们最常看到的选项。
We were actually just watching the Olympic track and field trials last night up in Oregon.
事实上，我们昨晚刚刚在俄勒冈州观看了奥运会田径选拔赛。
I'm a huge track and field fan, and there were a lot of sponges on the backs of necks before and between and after events.
我是田径运动的忠实粉丝，在比赛之前、比赛期间和比赛结束后，我的颈背上都会贴上很多海绵。
How good is that or how poor is that as a strategy, since now we know that being overheated locally and systemically throughout the body is a serious limiting factor on performance?
既然现在我们知道局部和全身过热是影响表现的一个严重限制因素，那么作为一种策略，这种策略有多好或多差？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, you have to understand something about our thermal regulatory system.
嗯，你必须了解一些关于我们的热调节系统的知识。
We have a thermostat, just like you have a thermostat in your house, and that thermostat is in the brain.
我们有一个恒温器，就像你家里有一个恒温器一样，这个恒温器就在大脑中。
Okay?
好的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do we know the specific site?
我们知道具体的网站吗？
Yes.
是的。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yes.
是的。
It's called the preoptic anterior hypothalamus.
它被称为视前下丘脑前部。
It does many things in terms of physiological regulation, but it serves as a thermostat.
它在生理调节方面有很多作用，但它起着恒温器的作用。
Now, that thermostat has to have information, it has to have input.
现在，恒温器必须有信息，必须有输入。
Where does that input come from?
该输入从哪里来？
It comes from our overall body surface, where we sense temperature.
它来自我们感知温度的整个身体表面。
Okay?
好的？
One of the things that can happen when you're overheated is that you can send in a cold stimulus to your thermostat, and that's sort of like wanting to cool your house by putting a wet washcloth over your thermostat.
当您过热时可能发生的事情之一是您可以向恒温器发送冷刺激，这有点像想要通过在恒温器上放一块湿毛巾来冷却您的房子。
It's doing the wrong thing.
它正在做错误的事情。
We've actually had experiences where we've had people exercising, getting overheated and then cooling the body surface.
事实上，我们有过这样的经历：人们在锻炼时感到过热，然后冷却身体表面。
They say, "It feels great.
他们说：“感觉很棒。
This is fantastic." And their core temperature is going up.
这太棒了。”他们的核心温度正在上升。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think this is such an important point.
我认为这是非常重要的一点。
First of all, I was weaned in a laboratory where there were always battles over the temperature in the lab.
首先，我是在实验室里断奶的，实验室里总是有关于温度的争论。
People were always putting ice packs on thermostats or putting fans towards thermostats and trying to play this game.
人们总是在恒温器上放冰袋或将风扇放在恒温器上并尝试玩这个游戏。
Good to know we were all being foolish, even though we were neurobiologists.
很高兴知道我们都是愚蠢的，尽管我们是神经生物学家。
Putting a cold towel over my torso, or putting ice on my upper back, you're saying could actually heat up my core?
在我的躯干上放一条冷毛巾，或者在我的上背部放冰块，你是说实际上可以加热我的核心？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It'll at least decrease your heat loss, your rate of heat loss.
它至少会减少你的热量损失，你的热量损失率。
You're going to raise the issue a little later, I know, and that is our natural portals for heat loss.
我知道，您稍后会提出这个问题，这是我们热量损失的天然门户。
You can think of the natural portals for heat loss as our air conditioners.
您可以将热量损失的自然门户视为我们的空调。
Okay?
好的？
The thermostat's in the brain, and the information to the thermostat is coming from the overall body surface.
恒温器位于大脑中，恒温器的信息来自整个身体表面。
What can happen if you, let's say, cool the torso with an ice vest, you can actually cause vasoconstriction of your portals, your heat loss portals.
比方说，如果你用冰背心冷却躯干，会发生什么，你实际上会导致你的门户的血管收缩，你的热量流失的门户。
That's what impairs the rate at which you're losing.
这就是降低你失败率的原因。
It feels good.
感觉很好。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Now, back to the head, that's really interesting.
现在，回到正题，这真的很有趣。
The major blood flow to the brain comes up four arteries through the neck.
流向大脑的主要血液来自颈部的四根动脉。
There's the carotid arteries and there's the vertebral arteries.
有颈动脉，有椎动脉。
So when you put a cold towel around the neck, you are going to be putting a cold stimulus into the brain.
因此，当你将冷毛巾放在脖子上时，你就会向大脑施加冷刺激。
Well, that's great for protecting the brain, you want to protect the brain, but it's also going to make you feel cooler than you are.
嗯，这对保护大脑很有好处，你想保护大脑，但它也会让你感觉比实际凉爽。
You will think you're ready to go again quickly when you've just essentially cooled the thermostat.
当您刚刚基本冷却恒温器时，您会认为您已准备好再次启动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is an important point.
这是很重要的一点。
There's a lot of interest nowadays in people doing marathons, and there are even some people do these ultras, ultra running, which I guess is everything longer than a marathon, and go last man standing — last man, last woman — standing kind of things.
现在人们对马拉松很感兴趣，甚至有些人做这些超级跑，我想这比马拉松还要长，还有最后一个站着的男人——最后一个男人，最后一个女人——站着之类的事情。
You're saying that if somebody's hyperthermic, they could trick themselves into subjectively thinking that they are cooling off by putting on a towel, and that they can go further, but their brain could cook.
你是说，如果某人体温过高，他们可能会欺骗自己，主观地认为自己可以通过铺上毛巾来降温，并且可以走得更远，但他们的大脑可能会煮熟。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
That they could go further?
他们可以走得更远吗？
Well, if they stop the cooling, then that hot blood from the body core is going to go to the brain.
好吧，如果他们停止冷却，那么来自身体核心的热血就会流向大脑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
Well, It's a bit of a tangent, but many people report after long bouts of exercise, or even just very intense bouts of exercise, feeling a kind of brain fog or mental fatigue.
嗯，这有点离题，但很多人都表示，经过长时间的锻炼，甚至只是非常剧烈的锻炼，感觉有一种脑雾或精神疲劳。
I assumed that that was due to lowered brain oxygenation postexercise, but is it possible that there is some postexercise effects on heating and cooling of the brain that might impact cognition, or I should say negatively impact cognition?
我认为这是由于运动后大脑氧合降低造成的，但是运动后是否可能对大脑的加热和冷却产生一些影响，从而可能影响认知，或者我应该说对认知产生负面影响？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It's certainly possible, because we know that a rise temperature decreases cognitive capacity.
这当然是可能的，因为我们知道温度升高会降低认知能力。
I mean, you can experience that yourself.
我的意思是，你可以亲自体验一下。
You can get on a treadmill and follow your temperature and then just do a simple activity like adding and subtracting.
您可以登上跑步机并跟踪您的体温，然后进行简单的活动，例如加法和减法。
You get to about 39 degrees, you can't do that anymore.
当温度达到 39 度左右时，你就不能再这样做了。
You can't just calculate how long you've been on the treadmill.
你不能仅仅计算你在跑步机上呆了多长时间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, the phrase "cool, calm and collected" is — that's the goal in all pursuits.
所以，“冷静、冷静、镇定”这句话就是——这就是所有追求的目标。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Cool, calm, and collected, that's right.
冷静、冷静、镇定，没错。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to talk about these portals because you've mentioned them a few times.
我想谈谈这些门户网站，因为您已经多次提到它们。
Before I ask about what the portals are exactly and how they work and how they can be leveraged for performance, just there's a question that my neurobiologist self can't resist but ask.
在我询问这些门户到底是什么、它们如何工作以及如何利用它们来提高性能之前，有一个问题是我的神经生物学家本人无法抗拒但要问的。
We have this thermostat in the preoptic area of the hypothalamus.
我们在下丘脑的视前区有这个恒温器。
Which is interesting to me, the medial preoptic area is also one that's known to be sexually dimorphic, depending on testosterone exposure early in life, et cetera.
我感兴趣的是，内侧视前区也是已知的性别二态性区域，这取决于生命早期的睾酮暴露等。
Although people should just note that it's not actually testosterone that creates these sexual dimorphisms, these differences, it's actually testosterone converted into estrogen.
尽管人们应该注意到，实际上并不是睾酮造成了这些性别二态性、这些差异，它实际上是睾酮转化为雌激素。
It's actually, estrogen is the effector, which is fascinating.
事实上，雌激素是效应器，这很有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nonetheless, we've got this area that acts as a thermostat.
尽管如此，我们还是有这个区域充当恒温器。
You said it's collecting information from the whole body.
你说它是在收集全身的信息。
Does that mean that there are pathways, as the neuroscientists like you and I refer to them as these afferent or input pathways from the body to the preoptic area?
这是否意味着存在通路，就像你我这样的神经科学家将它们称为从身体到视前区的传入或输入通路？
Is there a map of our body in the preoptic area?
我们身体的视前区有一张地图吗？
I have to imagine that you can't have the information just coming from the left shoulder, just from the right toe.
我必须想象你不可能只从左肩、右脚趾获得信息。
It sounds like you need probably a pretty crude map, but that you need a complete map of the body surface there.
听起来您可能需要一张相当粗糙的地图，但您需要一张完整的身体表面地图。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, you don't need a complete map in the hypothalamus.
嗯，你不需要下丘脑的完整地图。
I mean, that thermal afferent information that you've mentioned, it also goes to the somatosensory cortex.
我的意思是，你提到的热传入信息，它也会进入体感皮层。
You know if an ice cube has touched you on the back, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a change in, let's say you're shivering or sweating.
你知道冰块是否接触到了你的背部，但这并不一定会转化为变化，比如说你在发抖或出汗。
The information that's going to the hypothalamus is a more integrated representation of body temperature.
传送到下丘脑的信息是体温的更完整的表示。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's sort of an average of what's happening across the body?
这是全身发生的情况的平均值吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It's an average.
这是一个平均值。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If I were to, let's say I get hot on a hot day, and popsicles, when you're in summer camp.
如果我愿意的话，假设我在炎热的天气里感到很热，而当你在夏令营时，我会吃冰棍。
I went to a sports camp, here actually, and we'd run around crazy and then we get into the shade if we could, but we were — popsicles.
我去了一个运动营，实际上是在这里，我们会疯狂地跑来跑去，然后如果可以的话，我们会躲到阴凉处，但我们是——冰棒。
It was all about popsicles.
一切都与冰棒有关。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Brain freeze.
大脑冻结。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or the kids were putting ice cubes down each other's shirts or something.
或者孩子们把冰块放在彼此的衬衫上什么的。
But that's an average because other parts of the body aren't exposed.
但这是平均值，因为身体的其他部位没有暴露。
The mouth is exposed to the ice in the popsicle case, or the cold cubes are in the hands.
嘴巴接触到冰棒盒里的冰块，或者手里拿着冰块。
As you said, it feels really good.
正如你所说，这种感觉真的很好。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It feels good, yeah.
感觉很好，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it sounds like it feels deceptively good, because in reality, you could still be quite warm internally.
但听起来感觉很好，因为实际上，你的内心仍然很温暖。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Absolutely, yeah.
绝对是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah, you can feel great and have a dangerously hyperthermic temperature.
是的，你会感觉很好，但体温却达到危险的高温。
But I should say that when you get into the danger zone, things get bad fast.
但我应该说，当你进入危险区域时，事情会很快变得糟糕。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What are some of the symptoms that people could be on the lookout for, for hyperthermia?
人们可能会留意哪些高热症状？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Essentially, it's almost ironic that if individuals are transitioning into heatstroke, they actually vasoconstrict and they stop sweating.
从本质上讲，具有讽刺意味的是，如果一个人正在转变为中暑，他们实际上会收缩并且停止出汗。
That's a pathological situation.
这是一种病态的情况。
I couldn't begin to explain it.
我无法开始解释它。
But essentially, you are just feeling exhausted.
但本质上，你只是感到筋疲力尽。
You're feeling miserable.
你感觉很痛苦。
The heart rate is very high.
心率非常高。
Your heart rate goes up as your core temperature goes up.
当你的核心温度升高时，你的心率也会升高。
It's called cardiac drift.
这称为心脏漂移。
You just feel rotten.
你只是感觉很烂。
But that's why, since it's not a dangerous signal that you can translate immediately into, "Nope, I'm going into heat stroke," that's why people can overcome their bad-
但这就是为什么，因为这不是一个可以立即翻译成“不，我要中暑了”的危险信号，这就是为什么人们可以克服他们的坏——
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
I'm going into heatstroke.
我要中暑了。
That's why people can overcome their bad feeling with motivation to continue going to work harder.
这就是为什么人们可以克服不良情绪，并有动力继续努力工作。
So there have been a number of high profile athletic deaths due to heatstroke that were during practice.
因此，已经发生了多起引人注目的运动员在训练期间因中暑死亡的事件。
Not in competition when people are really trying to do it, but in practice, which shows they were just motivated to push.
不是在人们真正努力去做的竞争中，而是在实践中，这表明他们只是有动力去推动。
PART 1 OF 4 ENDS Andrew Huberman:
第 1 部分（共 4 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：
So let's talk about these magnificent portals that not just humans but other animals, mammals, are equipped with.
那么，让我们来谈谈这些宏伟的门户，不仅人类，而且其他动物、哺乳动物也都配备了这些门户。
So if putting cold on the neck or on the head or on the torso is not optimal, what is optimal?
那么，如果对颈部、头部或躯干进行冷敷不是最佳选择，那么什么是最佳呢？
And maybe walk us through a theory as to why we would have these portals located where they are and then we can talk about how one might leverage them for performance.
也许可以引导我们了解一个理论，解释为什么我们要将这些门户放在它们所在的位置，然后我们可以讨论如何利用它们来提高性能。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Okay.
好的。
Where the portals are are in the glabrous skin.
入口所在的地方是无毛的皮肤。
Big word.
大话。
Okay.
好的。
Glabrous just means no hair.
无毛只是意味着没有毛发。
So it's the hairless skin.
所以这是无毛的皮肤。
You say, well, most of my body is without hair.
你说，好吧，我身体的大部分都没有头发。
No. Most of your body has hair follicles.
不，你身体的大部分都有毛囊。
We are mammals.
我们是哺乳动物。
Mammals have fur.
哺乳动物有皮毛。
We've lost the fur, but we still have that hairy skin phenotype all over our body, except for those skin surfaces where our mammal relatives didn't have fur.
我们已经失去了皮毛，但我们全身仍然保留着毛茸茸的皮肤表型，除了我们的哺乳动物亲戚没有皮毛的皮肤表面。
So the pads of the feet and for the primates, upper part of the face.
对于灵长类动物来说，是脚垫，而对于灵长类动物来说，则是脸部的上半部分。
For rabbits, no portions of the ears.
对于兔子，没有耳朵的部分。
The inner surface of the ears.
耳朵的内表面。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I never thought about that.
我从来没有想过这个。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
For bears, the tongue.
对于熊来说，就是舌头。
Bears have big tongues, huge tongues.
熊的舌头很大，舌头很大。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I didn't know that either.
我也不知道。
Haven't been that close to a bear yet.
还没有离熊那么近。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Haven't had a licking match with a bear.
还没有和熊打过舔比赛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not yet, no.
还没有，没有。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
So anyway, our mammalian relatives can't lose heat over their overall body surface.
所以无论如何，我们的哺乳动物亲戚不能通过其整个身体表面散失热量。
So probably very early on in mammalian evolution, they evolved these special blood vessels in the limited surface areas that don't have fur.
因此，可能在哺乳动物进化的早期，它们在没有皮毛的有限表面区域进化出了这些特殊的血管。
And as I said, what these blood vessels are are shunts between the arteries and the veins.
正如我所说，这些血管是动脉和静脉之间的分流。
Arteries and veins are both low-resistance vessels so you can have high flow rate.
动脉和静脉都是低阻力血管，因此可以有高流速。
Capillaries, which normally are between arteries and veins, are high resistance because they're very tiny.
毛细血管通常位于动脉和静脉之间，由于非常细小，因此电阻很高。
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is it fair to say that what I was taught is that blood flows from arteries then to capillaries and then to veins and then back to the heart?
可以公平地说，我所学到的是血液从动脉流向毛细血管，然后流向静脉，然后流回心脏吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it's like from the heart through arteries, then through these little capillaries, which are little estuaries and streams, and then to the veins back to the heart.
就像从心脏穿过动脉，然后穿过这些小毛细血管，这些小毛细血管是小河口和溪流，然后通过静脉回到心脏。
Is that generally true?
这通常是真的吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
So what I learned in basic physiology is still ...
那么我在基础生理学中学到的东西还是……
I wouldn't get an F in your class.
我不会在你的课上得F。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Maybe a D or a C, but not an F.
也许是 D 或 C，但不是 F。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
So that's excellent.
所以这很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
And so you're saying that in this glabrous, or beneath the glabrous skin ...
所以你是说在这个无毛的地方，或者在无毛的皮肤下面......
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
There are these shunts.
有这些分流。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And those go directly from arteries to veins.
这些直接从动脉到静脉。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So you skip the capillaries.
所以你跳过了毛细血管。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Capillaries, yeah.
毛细血管，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is it actually, as long as I say that in the skin, when I feel the pads in my hands, how deep to the surface do these vessels reside?
其实只要我说在皮肤里，当我感觉到手上的肉垫时，这些血管离表面有多深？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, they're below, obviously, the epidermis.
嗯，很明显，它们在表皮下面。
So if you are warm and you look at your palms or your hands, they are fairly red.
因此，如果你感到温暖，并且观察你的手掌或双手，它们会相当红。
The backs of your hands aren't.
你的手背不是。
You don't have these vessels in the backs of your hands.
你手上没有这些血管。
Now if you take a glass, like a water tumbler, and you grab it, you can see if you squeeze a little bit, the hand goes white.
现在，如果你拿一个玻璃杯，比如水杯，你抓住它，你会发现如果你挤压一点，手就会变白。
That's because you've shut off that blood flow.
那是因为你已经切断了血液流动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, interesting.
哦，有趣。
I'm going to do that little home experiment.
我要做那个小家庭实验。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
So if you're bicycling on a hot day, you don't want to be grabbing your handlebars all the time.
因此，如果您在炎热的天气骑自行车，您不想一直抓住车把。
You want to periodically.
你想定期。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, this is important.
嗯，这很重要。
I know you're privy to some really amazing results that we're going to talk about.
我知道您知道我们将要讨论的一些非常惊人的结果。
But I actually heard you say this during this lecture recently that Stanford held about human performance that we were both part of.
但我实际上在最近斯坦福大学举行的关于人类表现的讲座中听到你这么说，我们都是其中的一部分。
And you mentioned this, that if you're cycling and you're working hard and you want to be able to do more work, we now know why you want to remain cool, in order to continue to do work.
你提到过，如果你正在骑自行车，你正在努力工作，并且你希望能够做更多的工作，我们现在知道为什么你想要保持冷静，以便继续工作。
And if you get too warm, that's bad.
如果你太热了，那就不好了。
That gripping the handlebars too tightly will actually limit your performance.
握把手太紧实际上会限制你的表现。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that's probably also true on the Peloton or any other kind of device, or the skier or anything like that.
对于 Peloton 或任何其他类型的设备，或者滑雪者或类似的东西来说，这可能也是如此。
So loosen the grip or if you safely can; you want to actually expose your hands right to the world.
因此，如果可以的话，松开手；你想真正向世界展示你的双手。
Now what about for people wearing gloves?
那么对于戴手套的人呢？
To me, that just seems crazy based on everything you're telling me.
对我来说，根据你告诉我的一切，这似乎很疯狂。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, gloves definitely impede heat loss from the hands, just as socks impede heat loss from the feet.
好吧，手套肯定会阻止手部的热量散失，就像袜子会阻止脚部的热量散失一样。
Okay.
好的。
So if you want to maximize your heat loss, you want to have as thin protectors as possible on your hands.
因此，如果您想最大限度地减少热量损失，您需要在手上佩戴尽可能薄的保护器。
And of course the feet are more problematical because you have to be using them in certain ways.
当然，脚的问题更大，因为你必须以某种方式使用它们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people run barefoot.
有些人赤脚跑步。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, yeah.
嗯，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
That's become somewhat popular.
这已经变得有点流行了。
It seems like it came and went.
似乎它来了又走了。
They had those toe shoes things, but they looked so ridiculous that I think most people just were willing to take the performance hindrance of regular shoes.
他们有那些脚趾鞋的东西，但它们看起来太可笑了，我认为大多数人只是愿意接受普通鞋的性能障碍。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Actually, we had a track coach here at Stanford who, for a while, was famous for introducing training without shoes.
事实上，我们在斯坦福大学有一位田径教练，有一段时间，他因引入不穿鞋训练而闻名。
Running.
跑步。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
And he thought it was because it changed the posture of the runner.
他认为这是因为它改变了跑步者的姿势。
And I think it was just due to the fact that he was increasing the capacity of his runners to lose heat.
我认为这只是因为他提高了跑步者散热的能力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
So heating up at the level of the hands, obviously, is going to hinder performance.
因此，手部温度升高显然会影响性能。
So if I can, how about with running?
如果可以的话，跑步怎么样？
I noticed — I ran cross-country briefly in high school, and not particularly well at that, but that we were told to run as if we were holding crackers in our fingers, or something, like very lightly and to keep hands loose.
我注意到——我在高中时曾短暂地越野跑过，跑得不是特别好，但我们被告知跑步时要像手指拿着饼干之类的东西一样，非常轻地跑，并保持双手放松。
So running like this would actually be more beneficial for performance than, or gripping a phone, which is probably what most people are doing nowadays.
因此，这样的跑步实际上比握着手机更有利于表现，而这可能是当今大多数人正在做的事情。
Right.
正确的。
Interesting.
有趣的。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Once, I'll tell you an experience I had once.
有一次，我给你讲一个我曾经的经历。
I was in Alaska in the winter, and I went out running and I absentmindedly forgot gloves.
我冬天在阿拉斯加，出去跑步时心不在焉地忘记戴手套了。
And I realized this after a short period running because the backs of my hands were aching from the cold, the palms of my hands were sweating and were hot.
我是跑了一小段时间才意识到这一点的，因为我的手背冷得酸痛，手心出汗而且很热。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, amazing.
哦，太棒了。
Amazing.
惊人的。
So these compartments are a real thing.
所以这些隔间是真实存在的。
And you mentioned the upper half of the face.
你提到了上半张脸。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
The upper part.
上半部分。
That's where our primate ancestors don't have fur.
那就是我们的灵长类祖先没有皮毛的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the bottoms of our feet.
还有我们的脚底。
So let's just take a moment, talk about some of the more amazing results that have been associated with proper cooling of these glabrous skin surfaces.
因此，让我们花点时间谈谈与这些无毛皮肤表面的适当冷却相关的一些更令人惊奇的结果。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Let me introduce one more thing.
让我再介绍一件事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Because you asked earlier about the pouring of water on the head.
因为你刚才问到了往头上浇水的问题。
One of the things which is not appreciated fully is that the blood, which is perfusing these special blood vessels in the face, above the beard line — that's the nonhairy skin.
没有充分认识到的一件事是血液，它灌注在面部胡须线上方的这些特殊血管中——那是无毛的皮肤。
That blood then returns in the venous supply to the heart.
然后血液返回心脏的静脉供应。
But it actually does it in a very strange way.
但它实际上以一种非常奇怪的方式做到这一点。
It actually goes through what are called; I'm blocking on the name now.
它实际上经历了所谓的；我现在正在阻止这个名字。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Take your time.
慢慢来。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
These are blood vessels.
这些是血管。
They go through the skull, and that's why the scalp bleeds a lot if you cut the scalp.
它们穿过头骨，这就是为什么如果割伤头皮会流很多血。
And these blood vessels, which are called, I want to say emergent, but it's not emergent.
这些血管，我想说的是紧急的，但它不是紧急的。
It's a word that means leaving.
这是一个表示离开的词。
And these blood vessels were primarily thought to be ways that blood is leaving the brain.
人们主要认为这些血管是血液离开大脑的途径。
But when you're overheated, the direction of flow in those blood vessels reverses.
但当你过热时，这些血管中的流动方向就会逆转。
So the cooled blood that's coming from your facial region goes into that circulation and actually is a cooling source for the brain.
因此，来自面部区域的冷却血液进入循环，实际上是大脑的冷却源。
So you can cool the brain, you can have a cooling effect on the brain by pouring water on your head.
所以可以给大脑降温，往头上浇水就可以对大脑起到降温的作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
So that practice, which we — at least for me, I most commonly associate with combat sports.
因此，我们——至少对我来说，最常将这种练习与格斗运动联系在一起。
Where someone, the fighter goes to their corner, they usually sit down on a stool unless they're trying to do some mental warfare from the corner, in which case they don't even take a seat.
当有人，战士走到他们的角落时，他们通常会坐在凳子上，除非他们试图在角落里进行一些心理战，在这种情况下他们甚至不会坐下。
And their corner crew will squeeze a sponge full of cold water over them.
他们的角落工作人员会在他们身上挤一块装满冷水的海绵。
That you're saying is somewhat effective in cooling the brain.
你说的这个对大脑降温有一定效果。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah.
是的。
It's one of the natural mechanisms for cooling the brain.
这是冷却大脑的自然机制之一。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to return to this at some point, as well, but is there any known benefit to cooling the brain, in terms of offsetting physical damage, offsetting the negative effects of concussion?
我也想在某个时候回到这个话题，但是在抵消身体损伤、抵消脑震荡的负面影响方面，冷却大脑有什么已知的好处吗？
Because one of the reasons why fighters will often get a cold item on the back of the neck, or on the head, is not just to cool them down, but the theory is that it might offset some of the damage of neurons.
因为战士经常在颈后或头上放一个冰冷的物品的原因之一不仅仅是为了让他们降温，而且理论上它可能会抵消一些神经元的损伤。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
I just can't comment on that.
我只是无法对此发表评论。
I'm aware of those ideas, but they're controversial.
我知道这些想法，但它们是有争议的。
One of the things that you want to do for injury to the brain is to decrease swelling.
对于大脑损伤，你要做的事情之一就是减少肿胀。
And one of the ways that you decrease swelling in many parts of the body is to cool.
减少身体许多部位肿胀的方法之一就是降温。
It decreases inflammation, it decreases the blood flow.
它可以减少炎症，减少血流量。
So I think it's a really interesting topic, and it's something that should be investigated.
所以我认为这是一个非常有趣的话题，值得研究。
It's hard to investigate.
调查起来很难。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Interesting.
有趣的。
Okay.
好的。
So I hear these stories and I've seen the data, so I believe the stories.
所以我听到了这些故事并且看到了数据，所以我相信这些故事。
Maybe tell us a story about an observation that your group has made with respect to anaerobic exercise and proper cooling of these glabrous surfaces.
也许可以告诉我们一个关于您的小组在无氧运动和这些无毛表面的适当冷却方面所做的观察的故事。
And we can talk about the technology.
我们可以谈论技术。
Maybe give us the dips example first.
也许先给我们举个双臂屈伸的例子。
Dips, of course I think most people are familiar with dips.
Dips，当然我想大多数人都熟悉dip。
You're supposed to get down-
你应该下来——
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Raise and lower your body mass.
升高和降低体重。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Raise and lower body mass, usually with your legs dangling down.
升高和降低体重，通常双腿悬垂。
Sometimes people strong enough to attach a weight there and they'll do, it's essentially a compound upper-body exercise.
有时，足够强壮的人可以在那里施加重物，他们就会这么做，这本质上是一种复合的上半身运动。
One dip would not be particularly impressive for most people.
对于大多数人来说，一次下跌不会给人留下特别深刻的印象。
A hundred would be very impressive, 20 would be impressive for some, et cetera.
一百个会非常令人印象深刻，二十个对某些人来说会令人印象深刻，等等。
What happens when a skilled athlete comes in and does dips for multiple sets?
当一名熟练的运动员进来并进行多组臂屈伸时会发生什么？
And then what happens when they cool properly using the glabrous skin surfaces?
那么当它们使用无毛的皮肤表面适当冷却时会发生什么？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
This was a story that occurred early on in our investigations when we first made the discoveries that cooling has a benefit to increase your work volume, your capacity to do more reps.
这是我们早期调查中发生的一个故事，当时我们第一次发现冷却有利于增加你的工作量和完成更多次数的能力。
So the word got over, I think, to the 49ers camp, and one of their players, Greg Clark, who was a tight end at the time — he had been tight end at Stanford — he decided, or I don't know if he was asked or what, to come over and check it out.
我想，这个消息传到了 49 人队阵营，他们的一名球员格雷格·克拉克（Greg Clark）当时是一名近端锋——他曾在斯坦福大学担任近端锋——他决定，或者我不知道是否有人邀请他还是什么，过来看看。
So Greg came over and we said, "Greg, what are you good at?
于是格雷格过来了，我们说：“格雷格，你擅长什么？
What activity do you like to do?" He said, "Dips, I can do a lot of dips.
你喜欢做什么活动？”他说：“双臂屈伸，我可以做很多次双臂屈伸。
I can do 40 dips in a first set, and I can probably do five sets.
我第一组可以做 40 次臂屈伸，大概可以做五组。
That's a usual workout for me." And we said, "Okay." So he came over to the gym one day, and that's exactly what he did.
这对我来说是一种平常的锻炼。”我们说：“好吧。”所以有一天他来到了健身房，他也确实这么做了。
He did 40 dips the first set, and then maybe 25 and 15, and down from there.
第一盘他完成了 40 次臂屈伸，然后可能是 25 次和 15 次，然后再往下下降。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you recall roughly what kind of rest periods he was taking between sets?
你还记得他在组间休息的大致时间吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah, we standardized the rest period to three minutes, because that's what we had set on for cooling as the Andrew Huberman:
是的，我们将休息时间标准化为三分钟，因为这就是我们为安德鲁·胡伯曼（Andrew Huberman）设定的冷却时间：
That's a good, long rest period.
这是一个很好的、很长的休息时间。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah, it is.
是的，确实如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's still a lot of dips.
仍然有很多下降。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah, it's actually a longer rest period than many people would prefer during workouts.
是的，这实际上比许多人在锻炼期间希望的休息时间更长。
They want to make the most of their time.
他们想充分利用自己的时间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not me, I prefer to take as much rest as I possibly can.
不是我，我更喜欢尽可能多地休息。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
So several days later, he came back and his first set, he did, I think maybe 42, a little bit better.
几天后，他回来了，他的第一盘，我想可能是42，稍微好一点。
But now people were standing around watching, so there was a little impetus there to show off.
但现在有人围观，就有一点炫耀的动力了。
So then his second set was, I don't remember the numbers, but very much above the second set on the control day.
所以他的第二盘是，我不记得数字了，但比控制日的第二盘高得多。
This was after we cooled his palmar surface.
这是我们冷却他的手掌表面之后的结果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When is he doing the cooling?
他什么时候做制冷？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
He's sitting down and putting his hands in the devices that we had built, which were cooling the palms of his hands.
他坐下来，把手放在我们制造的设备中，这些设备正在冷却他的手掌。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
For how long does that cooling take?
冷却需要多长时间？
Can he do it inside of a three-minute rest period?
他能在三分钟的休息时间内做到这一点吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah, that's what we were doing.
是的，这就是我们正在做的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
We standardized the interval for resting or cooling to three minutes.
我们将休息或冷却的时间间隔标准化为三分钟。
But the point is, he got to his fifth set, and all of the sets were above what he had done on the previous day.
但关键是，他打到了第五盘，而且所有盘数都高于他前一天的成绩。
And he said, "I'm not tired.
他说：“我不累。
I can do another set, and then I can do another set.
我可以再做一组，然后我可以再做一组。
I can do another set, I can do another set." So from one day to two or three days later, with cooling, he doubled the total work volume.
我可以再做一组，我可以再做一组。”于是从一天到两三天后，随着冷却，他的总工作量增加了一倍。
He doubled the total number of dips
他使双臂屈伸的总数增加了一倍
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
By adding more sets and more repetitions to each set.
通过添加更多的组数和每组的更多重复次数。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
So then he kept coming back for four more weeks, twice a week.
于是他又继续回来四个星期，每周两次。
And by the end of that month, he was doing 300 dips.
到那个月底，他已经做了 300 次臂屈伸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow, so what percentage?
哇，那么百分比是多少？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
So he tripled.
于是他就增加了三倍。
He essentially tripled.
他基本上增加了两倍。
And so here's a professional athlete at peak physical conditioning, and he triples what he can do.
这是一位身体状况处于巅峰状态的职业运动员，他的能力是他的三倍。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amazing.
太棒了。
Amazing.
惊人的。
And in terms of his ability to recover, was that explored or discussed at all?
就他的恢复能力而言，是否有过探索或讨论？
Because my understanding is that if we cause enough stress to a muscle during anaerobic training, we provide the stimulus for compensatory regrowth, et cetera.
因为我的理解是，如果我们在无氧训练期间对肌肉造成足够的压力，我们就会提供补偿性再生的刺激，等等。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right, Right.
对，对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But if we do more work, we essentially scale up the amount of recovery that's needed, or the recovery time.
但如果我们做更多的工作，我们基本上就会增加所需的恢复量或恢复时间。
I'm very curious about whether or not he needed longer to recover between these superperforming workouts.
我很好奇他在这些超级训练之间是否需要更长的时间来恢复。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
That's very interesting.
这很有趣。
That was a major discovery, which we didn't realize we were making at the time.
这是一个重大发现，我们当时并没有意识到我们正在做出这一发现。
There is this phenomenon you're referring to as delayed onset muscle soreness, DOMS.
您将这种现象称为延迟性肌肉酸痛（DOMS）。
And this is due to those little microtears, and so forth, that are happening as we extend our workout capacity — volume.
这是由于当我们扩展我们的锻炼能力（训练量）时发生的那些小微撕裂等。
So we've had this experience so many times that an athlete or anyone will come into the lab, and they will exceed what their previous goals were, their previous expectations.
所以我们已经有过很多次这样的经历，运动员或任何人都会进入实验室，他们会超出他们之前的目标和期望。
And I can always see the words coming out of their mouth, "I'm going to be so sore tomorrow." They never are.
我总能看到他们嘴里说出这样的话：“明天我会很疼。”他们从来都不是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
And we've actually demonstrated that with a naive group.
我们实际上已经通过一个天真的小组证明了这一点。
We had a class, a physical conditioning class, and we had half of them ...
我们上了一堂课，体能课，我们上了一半……
The first days of the class, we had to establish their true capacity, what they could do.
上课的第一天，我们必须确定他们的真实能力，他们能做什么。
So these were pretty heavy workouts for these new recruits.
因此，对于这些新兵来说，这些训练是相当繁重的。
And we gave half of them the benefit of cooling and the other half not.
我们给其中一半的人带来了冷却的好处，而另一半则没有。
And then we had them record their subjective levels of delayed onset muscle soreness.
然后我们让他们记录延迟性肌肉酸痛的主观水平。
And those that were cooled didn't have significant muscle soreness.
那些被冷却的人没有明显的肌肉酸痛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amazing.
太棒了。
And I know there are also published results, and we will provide links to some of these papers for people, seeing similar effects, I should say, similar performance-enhancing effects using bench presses.
我知道也有已发表的结果，我们将为人们提供其中一些论文的链接，让人们看到类似的效果，我应该说，使用卧推带来类似的性能增强效果。
Bench press or pushups or other sorts of things.
卧推或俯卧撑或其他种类的东西。
Maybe you could give us an example from the realm of endurance work or aerobic work.
也许你可以给我们举一个耐力运动或有氧运动领域的例子。
Running, cycling, things of that sort.
跑步、骑自行车等等。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, one of the problems for us is that our equipment now is not really portable.
嗯，我们面临的问题之一是我们的设备现在不太便携。
I mean, it's portable in the sense you can carry it to the gym or to the football field-
我的意思是，它是便携式的，你可以把它带到健身房或足球场——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But you're not going to run with it.
但你不会接受它。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
But you're not going to run with it.
但你不会接受它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Or equip a bicycle with it.
或者装备一辆自行车。
Although when are the cooling handles on bicycles coming?
不过自行车上的冷却手柄什么时候上市？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
That would be good, but one itinerant activity is golfing, and people have put it on their golf carts and they're out.
那就太好了，但是一项巡回活动就是打高尔夫球，人们把它放在高尔夫球车上然后就出去了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do people really heat up that much in golf?
人们对高尔夫的热情真的那么高吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
They do.
他们确实这么做了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not to be disparaging of the golfers, but the way I conceptualize golf, it's like a swing and then a walk and then a cart ride and then a meal.
并不是要贬低高尔夫球手，但我对高尔夫的概念是，它就像挥杆，然后散步，然后乘坐马车，然后吃饭。
I probably just offended all the golfers out there.
我可能刚刚冒犯了所有的高尔夫球手。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
One time we had, we were doing work for the Department of Defense, and they wanted to check it out.
有一次，我们正在为国防部做工作，他们想检查一下。
Whether or not what we were doing was really worthwhile.
无论我们所做的事情是否真的值得。
So they sent out a team of special ops soldiers to be our subjects and test it out.
于是他们派出了一队特种部队作为我们的实验对象进行测试。
They were here for a week.
他们在这里呆了一个星期。
So that was a fun week.
所以那是有趣的一周。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I do some work with those guys.
我和那些人一起做一些工作。
They're hard-driving guys.
他们是勤劳的家伙。
They also know how to have fun, but definitely have, if they have an off or a quit switch, it's buried deep within their nervous system.
他们也知道如何获得乐趣，但肯定有，如果他们有一个关闭或退出的开关，那么它就深深地埋藏在他们的神经系统中。
They don't like to hit that quit switch.
他们不喜欢按下退出开关。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
So the guy who wrote the final report, he gave an addendum to the report and he said, "Well, I'll tell you this, after I've gotten home, it's added ..." They took the technology with them, they wanted to keep it.
因此，撰写最终报告的人对报告进行了补充，他说：“好吧，我告诉你，我回家后，它会添加......”他们带走了这项技术，他们想保留它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
That sounds about right.
听起来不错。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
"And using it has added 20 yards to every club in my bag.
“使用它后，我包里的每支球杆都增加了 20 码。
And that's no effing small deal."
这可不是一件小事。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
So it's allowing people to hit further, hit the golf ball further.
所以它可以让人们打得更远，把高尔夫球打得更远。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
All right.
好的。
So for the golf players out there, then that's the reward you get back from Craig for all my little knocks on golf.
因此，对于那些高尔夫球手来说，这就是克雷格对我在高尔夫方面的所有小小成就的回报。
I actually, I don't have any knock on golf.
事实上，我对高尔夫没有任何兴趣。
I just don't think about it as a sport where heating up is a limiting factor.
我只是不认为这是一项热身是限制因素的运动。
So since they're getting more out of their drive, what do you think is going on there?
那么既然他们从他们的动力中获得了更多，你认为那里发生了什么？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, they can be heating up and Andrew Huberman:
好吧，他们可能正在升温，安德鲁·休伯曼：
They were wearing gloves, right?
他们戴着手套，对吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
On a hot day and so forth.
在炎热的一天等等。
But let just tell you one more serious story about golfers, and that is individuals with multiple sclerosis are exceedingly temperature sensitive.
但让我们告诉您一个关于高尔夫球手的更严肃的故事，那就是患有多发性硬化症的人对温度极其敏感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I didn't know that.
我不知道。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
So they may still be mobile, but they have to stay in cool locations and not increase their exercise to any great extent.
所以他们可能仍然可以活动，但必须呆在凉爽的地方，并且不能大幅度增加运动量。
But we've had subjects with multiple sclerosis who have just essentially put the device on their golf cart, and they're back out playing golf in the middle of the summer.
但我们有一些患有多发性硬化症的受试者，他们刚刚将设备放在高尔夫球车上，然后他们在仲夏时分又出去打高尔夫球了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, that's great.
哦，那太好了。
That's great.
那太棒了。
Anything that allows people to have normal levels of livelihood and recreation is great.
任何能让人们有正常的生活和娱乐的事情都是伟大的。
We always think about performance at these peak and elite levels and pushing harder.
我们始终考虑在这些巅峰和精英水平上的表现并更加努力。
But anything that allows people to be mobile and functional is great.
但任何能让人们保持移动性和功能性的东西都是很棒的。
So what's your favorite example of endurance?
那么你最喜欢的耐力例子是什么？
And feel free to give us the extreme one, and then we'll talk about averages to make sure we're thorough about averages versus exceptions.
请随意给我们极端的一个，然后我们将讨论平均值，以确保我们彻底了解平均值与例外情况。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
We haven't done a lot in the field.
我们在该领域还没有做很多事情。
I mean outdoors.
我的意思是在户外。
Most of our endurance has been in a hot room with treadmill work, and so forth.
我们大部分的耐力都是在炎热的房间里进行跑步机工作等等。
So the very first experiment, we had, I think, maybe 18 subjects just off the street.
因此，我想，在第一个实验中，我们可能有 18 个就在街上的受试者。
We just recruited people in the hallways.
我们刚刚在走廊里招募了人员。
Come on in and do this.
进来做这个吧。
And what we found is we could, for this group with one trial with and without cooling, we could double their endurance walking on the treadmill, walking uphill on the treadmill in the heat, like maybe 40 degrees, ambient temperature, 40 degrees centigrade.
我们发现，对于这一组人来说，在有或没有冷却的情况下进行一次试验，我们可以使他们在跑步机上行走的耐力加倍，在炎热的天气下在跑步机上上坡行走，比如 40 度，环境温度，40 摄氏度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what does that experiment look like?
那么这个实验是什么样的呢？
You're having people walk on an incline; it's really warm.
你让人们走在斜坡上；真的很温暖。
Some people are just going to hit the quit button and say, "I've had enough" and get off the treadmill.
有些人只是按下退出按钮并说：“我受够了”，然后离开跑步机。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
With proper cooling, when are they doing the cooling?
有了适当的冷却，他们什么时候进行冷却？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
They're doing it continuously.
他们不断地这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I see.
我明白了。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Because in the laboratory we can suspend devices from the ceiling, for example.
例如，因为在实验室中，我们可以将设备悬挂在天花板上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Now we do have prototype wearable devices.
现在我们确实有了原型可穿戴设备。
We did them in response to emails from Ebola workers a number of years ago in Sierra Leone.
我们这样做是为了回复几年前塞拉利昂埃博拉工作人员的电子邮件。
They said, "We've read about your work with athletes.
他们说：“我们已经了解了您与运动员的合作。
Can't you do something for us?
你就不能为我们做点什么吗？
We're in the personal protective gear and we can't be in the hot zone for more than 15 or 20 minutes." So that started us on the challenge of developing wearable systems that could go under the PPE.
我们穿着个人防护装备，在危险区域停留的时间不能超过 15 或 20 分钟。”因此，我们开始面临开发可在个人防护装备下使用的可穿戴系统的挑战。
We've published that work now Andrew Huberman:
我们现在已经出版了该作品 Andrew Huberman：
That's great.
太好了。
I'm guessing the military special operators that are out in the desert and other locations are probably excited about this technology.
我猜在沙漠和其他地方的军事特种作战人员可能会对这项技术感到兴奋。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, once they get it.
好吧，一旦他们得到了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Once they get.
一旦他们得到。
It's coming.
它来了。
It's coming.
它来了。
I think some people might wonder, if there are all these studies and there are these incredible results over the years, why haven't we heard more about it?
我想有些人可能会想，如果多年来有所有这些研究并且有这些令人难以置信的结果，为什么我们没有听到更多关于它的信息？
And I will ask your opinion on that as well, but I'll just editorialize a little bit.
我也会询问你对此的看法，但我只会做一些社论。
The best laboratory work and its practical applications oftentimes requires many studies, and oftentimes there isn't a portal, so to speak, to get that information out into the technology sector.
最好的实验室工作及其实际应用通常需要进行大量研究，并且通常没有门户可以将这些信息传递到技术领域。
So there is a company that's developing this technology for people to use.
所以有一家公司正在开发这项技术供人们使用。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To purchase and use.
来购买和使用。
You might as well just tell us now.
你不妨现在就告诉我们。
What is the name of that company, and do they have a website?
那家公司的名称是什么？他们有网站吗？
People are going to want to know where can they get this magical technology, and is there a poor man's version of it as well?
人们想知道从哪里可以获得这种神奇的技术，是否也有穷人版的技术？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, the company's Arteria, A-R-T-E-R-I-A, and the website is www.coolmitt.com.
嗯，该公司的Arteria，A-R-T-E-R-I-A，网站是www.coolmitt.com。
So COOLMITT is just C-O-O-L-M-I-T-T.
所以 COOLMITT 就是 C-O-O-L-M-I-T-T。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Coolmitt.com.
Coolmitt.com。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a great website.
这是一个很棒的网站。
When I went there, it says that right now the technology is only available to professional sports teams and military.
当我去那里时，它说目前该技术仅适用于专业运动队和军队。
Is that true?
这是真的吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well where we stand now is the new version of the technology is in beta test versions.
我们现在的立场是该技术的新版本处于 Beta 测试版本中。
We got it into the hands of people who had used the technology before.
我们把它交到了以前使用过这项技术的人手中。
So there are NFL teams that are using, there are college teams, there's Olympics, there's the Navy SEALs, Major League Baseball, the NBA, the National Tennis Association.
因此，有 NFL 球队、大学球队、奥运会、海豹突击队、美国职业棒球大联盟、NBA、国家网球协会都在使用。
They have locations where now they are trying this out and reporting back.
他们现在正在一些地方进行尝试并进行报告。
How's it working?
运作如何？
How could you change it?
你怎么能改变它呢？
How could you improve it?
你可以如何改进它？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
And so forth.
等等。
So that's where we are.
这就是我们现在的情况。
But on the website, you can actually sign up for being one who will be able to get one when they are finally manufactured.
但在网站上，您实际上可以注册成为最终制造时能够获得的人。
They're now being made in fairly small lots because you want to change things as you realize how it can be improved.
它们现在是小批量生产的，因为当你意识到如何改进时，你想改变一些事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
This is Stanford, after all.
毕竟这是斯坦福大学。
You want to get the technology right.
您想要获得正确的技术。
I like to joke that one of the reasons I like being at Stanford so much is that not only are my colleagues amazing and they're so forward thinking, but they're all perfectionists.
我喜欢开玩笑说，我如此喜欢在斯坦福大学的原因之一是，我的同事们不仅很棒并且思维超前，而且都是完美主义者。
And so the perfectionist mindset is it has to be perfect before it can go live, so to speak.
因此，可以说，完美主义者的心态是，它必须完美才能上线。
Well, I think there will be a lot of interest.
嗯，我想会有很多人感兴趣。
Let's talk about the technology in a little more detail for a moment.
让我们更详细地讨论一下该技术。
And then let's talk about whether or not crude forms of that technology exist.
然后我们来谈谈该技术的原始形式是否存在。
Either for sake of safety and/or performance.
出于安全和/或性能的考虑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The CoolMitt, as I understand, is, it's a mitt, it's a glove.
据我了解，CoolMitt 是指手套。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You put your hand into it, you hold onto a surface and that surface cools your hand, and thereby, through this specialized portal, cools your core body temperature and all the muscles of the body.
你把手伸进去，抓住一个表面，这个表面就会冷却你的手，从而通过这个专门的入口，冷却你的核心体温和身体的所有肌肉。
Subjectively, if I were to do this right now, would I think that it was ice cold or would I think it was just cool?
主观上，如果我现在这样做，我会认为它很冷还是我会认为它只是很酷？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Just cool.
很酷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I see.
我明白了。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Ice cold is too cold.
冰冷太冷了。
So people always ask, "Well, why can't you just stick your hand in a bucket of ice water?" It's too cold.
所以人们总是问：“那么，为什么你不能把手伸进一桶冰水中呢？”太冷了。
What that does is that causes reflex vasoconstriction of the very portals that you're trying to maximize the heat loss from.
其作用是导致您试图最大化热量损失的门户反射性血管收缩。
So you stick your hand in cold water; when it comes out, it's cold.
所以你把手伸进冷水里；出来的时候很冷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You just sealed up all the heat in your body.
你只是将体内的热量全部封印了。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah, right.
是的，对。
So well, what I recommended to someone at one point.
好吧，我曾经向某人推荐过什么。
They said, "Well, when I'm running, can't I just carry a frozen juice can and it will gradually melt?" And I said, "Well no, because that's going to decrease the heat loss from that hand.
他们说：“好吧，当我跑步时，我不能只携带一个冰冻果汁罐，它就会逐渐融化吗？”我说：“嗯，不，因为这会减少那只手的热量损失。
But if every couple minutes you switched hands, it might work.
但如果你每隔几分钟就换手，这可能会奏效。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Well, I have a feeling that there are people now doing that as well as trying this.
嗯，我有一种感觉，现在有人在这样做并尝试这样做。
So how long in the CoolMitt; at the proper temperature, how long are people putting their hands into the mitt?
那么在 CoolMitt 中待多久？在适当的温度下，人们将手放入手套中多长时间？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, we once again had just standardized on three minutes.
好吧，我们再次标准化了三分钟。
And part of the reason for that is that the rate of heat loss is an exponentially declining curve.
部分原因是热损失率呈指数下降曲线。
And three minutes gets the best part of the curve.
三分钟是曲线的最佳部分。
So you can go longer and get more benefit, but the biggest bang for the buck is in the first two, three minutes.
所以你可以走得更远，获得更多好处，但最大的收获是在前两、三分钟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
You mentioned a number of impressive organizations, sports teams and military that are using this.
您提到了许多令人印象深刻的组织、运动队和军队正在使用它。
This is not something that I typically see on the sidelines of games, although to be honest, I haven't looked very carefully.
这不是我通常在比赛场外看到的东西，尽管说实话，我没有仔细观察过。
I'm guessing that they are probably keeping the technology somewhat under wraps.
我猜测他们可能对这项技术保密。
Where and how are they doing this?
他们在哪里以及如何做这件事？
Are they running back to the locker room?
他们跑回更衣室了吗？
I mean, the military special operators are doing their thing, but in terms of the athletes, is it possible hypothetically the athletes are doing this somewhat incognito?
我的意思是，军事特种作战人员正在做他们的事情，但就运动员而言，是否有可能假设运动员正在隐姓埋名地做这件事？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It's possible, but I really don't know.
有可能，但我真的不知道。
People have mentioned here at Stanford, they don't see the football team using it.
人们在斯坦福大学提到过，他们没有看到橄榄球队使用它。
Well, the football team here at Stanford is mostly playing in cold weather.
嗯，斯坦福大学的橄榄球队大多在寒冷的天气里比赛。
Cool weather.
天气凉爽。
The night games are cool.
晚上的比赛很酷。
Even date games are not very hot frequently here.
这里甚至约会游戏也不是很热门。
But when they go to a hot place like Arizona or Utah, at least our coach, Shaw, says that they take it with them, and that's when they find the benefit.
但当他们去亚利桑那州或犹他州这样的热门地方时，至少我们的教练肖说他们会随身携带，那时他们就会发现好处。
That's when they use it.
这就是他们使用它的时候。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
So is there a poor person's, poor man or woman
那么有没有穷人的，穷人的男人还是女人？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A poor person's, poor man or woman's version of this.
穷人的版本，穷人的版本。
You mentioned the juice can passing back and forth.
你提到果汁可以来回传递。
You mentioned cooling the hands.
你提到冷却双手。
A number of people said to me after learning a little bit about this science and technology that they've experienced some big effects, positive effects of cooling by ...
许多人在了解了一些这项科学技术后对我说，他们已经体验到了一些巨大的效果，冷却的积极效果......
and I confess, I've done this.
我承认，我已经做到了。
Taking a package of frozen blueberries and just kind of passing it back and forth between my hands.
拿一包冷冻蓝莓，然后在我的双手之间来回传递。
Now talking to you, I realize I probably didn't do it long enough.
现在和你说话，我意识到我可能做得还不够长。
I was only doing maybe 30 seconds, passing it back and forth between my hands and then going back into sets.
我只做了大约 30 秒，在我的双手之间来回传递它，然后回到组中。
I did see a performance-enhancing effect.
我确实看到了性能提升的效果。
Absolutely.
绝对的。
But I realized I probably wasn't optimizing the protocol.
但我意识到我可能没有优化协议。
If you were going to give a crude protocol, let's just say, for the gym, because with running it's a little bit tricky, but what would that look like if people wanted to just play with this in some sort of fashion?
如果你要给出一个粗略的协议，比如说，对于健身房来说，因为跑步有点棘手，但如果人们只想以某种方式玩这个，那会是什么样子呢？
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS Craig Heller:
第 2 部分（共 4 部分）结束 Craig Heller：
Well, it would be experimental.
嗯，这将是实验性的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Yeah.
是的。
None of that is kind of very controlled.
这些都不是非常受控制的。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Your idea of frozen peas is a good idea.
你的冷冻豌豆想法是个好主意。
And I think since there's been no actual study of that, you would have to be ...
我认为由于没有对此进行实际研究，你必须......
you working out, what is the best for you?
你正在锻炼，什么对你来说是最好的？
But one way to figure it out is that if after you hold the cold peas in one hand, then you switch it to the other hand, if someone then comes and feels your hand, is it warm or cold?
但有一种方法可以解决这个问题：如果你一只手拿着冷豌豆，然后换到另一只手，如果有人走过来摸你的手，是热的还是冷的？
If it's cold, it means you vasoconstricted.
如果天气冷，则意味着您的血管收缩。
If it's warm, it means the hot blood is still going there.
如果是温热的，说明热血还在流淌。
So we do that in the lab.
所以我们在实验室里这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the key is for it to not vasoconstrict.
关键是它不会收缩血管。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
So there's a test out there, folks.
所以这里有一个测试，伙计们。
If you're going to try this in kind of a crude fashion, at least until the CoolMitt is available more broadly to the general public, you want to assess whether or not your palms actually feel cool to the touch by somebody else ...
如果你打算以一种粗略的方式尝试这一点，至少在 CoolMitt 更广泛地向公众提供之前，你需要评估别人触摸你的手掌是否真的感觉凉爽......
And if it does, that means you've essentially shut down the port, or you're sealing in more heat, which is bad.
如果确实如此，那就意味着你基本上已经关闭了端口，或者你密封了更多的热量，这是不好的。
What about putting this cold pack of some sort on the face ...
把这种冰袋敷在脸上怎么样？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Or the feet.
或者脚。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or the feet.
或者脚。
I work out at home.
我在家锻炼。
I don't often work out barefooted, but I suppose I could, like they did in the '70s, when those guys were walking around without shoes and squatting without any shoes or socks on.
我不经常赤脚锻炼，但我想我可以，就像他们在 70 年代所做的那样，当时那些家伙不穿鞋走来走去，不穿鞋或袜子蹲着。
Could I put my feet on them?
我可以把脚放在上面吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
You could.
你可以。
If you simply had a water-perfused pad and you were circulating cool water through it, you could just put your feet on it.
如果你只是有一个注水垫，并且通过它循环冷水，你就可以将脚放在上面。
Okay?
好吧？
Part of the problem is that you don't want ...
部分问题是你不想...
Let's say you have just a cold pack of something.
假设你只有一包冷的东西。
The problem is back to boundary layers again.
问题又回到了边界层。
If you don't have a convective stream of the cooling medium, the heat sink is not as effective, because there'll be a boundary layer developed between the heat sink material and your skin.
如果没有冷却介质的对流流，散热器就不会那么有效，因为散热器材料和皮肤之间会形成边界层。
So that decreases its efficacy.
从而降低其功效。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I see.
我明白了。
Maybe we should just, for a moment, talk about convection, radiation and convection, and just make that clear.
也许我们应该暂时谈谈对流、辐射和对流，并把它们说清楚。
If I put my hands ...
如果我把手放...
Let's say it's a cold night and I'm at a campfire, and I take my hands and I put them out to the fire.
假设这是一个寒冷的夜晚，我在篝火旁，我把手放在火上。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
You're getting radiation.
你正在受到辐射。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're getting radiation.
你正在受到辐射。
Okay.
好的。
And then if it's a windy, warm night ...
然后，如果这是一个有风、温暖的夜晚……
No, I don't know if that's the best example.
不，我不知道这是否是最好的例子。
Give us a good example of convection.
给我们一个对流的好例子。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Convection, sure, is in a cool breeze.
当然，对流是在凉爽的微风中。
The wind chill factor, that's due to convection.
风寒因素，这是由于对流造成的。
But in terms of heat transfer between two objects, if you have convection of the medium, whether it's blood on the inside and water on the outside, you increase the heat exchange if you have convection on both sides.
但就两个物体之间的传热而言，如果介质有对流，无论是内部是血液还是外部是水，如果两侧都有对流，就会增加热交换。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
So this is why just planting my bare feet on two packages of frozen peas, there's really no opportunity for circulation and therefore heat transfer.
这就是为什么我光着脚踩在两包冷冻豌豆上，实际上没有机会进行循环，因此也没有传热的机会。
So it's not really optimal, which is ...
所以这并不是真正的最佳选择，这是......
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
But once again, it depends on the surface area to get any benefit at all.
但再次强调，要获得任何好处都取决于表面积。
We have a study that we published, which was investigating the standard treatment for hyperthermia in the field.
我们发表了一项研究，该研究正在调查现场高热的标准治疗方法。
And the standard treatment that's recommended by medical organizations is you take cold packs, and you put them in the axilla, the groin.
医疗机构推荐的标准治疗方法是使用冷敷袋，并将它们放在腋窝、腹股沟处。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The axilla are the armpits.
腋窝就是腋窝。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
The armpits, yeah.
腋窝，是的。
The groin, which is a ...
腹股沟，这是一个...
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thin skin, lots of vasculature.
皮肤薄，血管丰富。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
And the neck.
还有脖子。
So what we did is we did studies in which we made people hyperthermic, and then we measured the rate at which we could cool them by putting those positions, those heat exchange bags in the recommended location versus on the glabrous skin — versus palms, soles and face.
所以我们所做的就是我们做了一些研究，让人们体温过高，然后我们测量了通过将这些位置、这些热交换袋放在推荐位置与无毛皮肤上（与手掌、脚底和面部）的冷却速度。
The cooling rate was double if we put the same ice packs, the same cold packs on the heat portals rather than the axilla, the groin and the face or the neck.
如果我们将相同的冰袋、相同的冷袋放在热入口而不是腋窝、腹股沟和面部或颈部，则冷却速率会增加一倍。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
So face, hands and bottoms of feet will cool you twice as fast as putting cold packs into your armpits, your groin or back of neck.
因此，面部、手部和脚底的降温速度比将冷袋放入腋窝、腹股沟或颈后部的速度快一倍。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
So I like to give the analogy of if your car is overheating, okay, and you have a hose, a garden hose, where should you spray your cooling system?
所以我想打个比方，如果你的车过热，好吧，你有一根软管，一根花园软管，你应该在哪里喷洒你的冷却系统？
Should you spray the radiator, or should you spray the tubes going in and out of the radiator?
应该喷洒散热器，还是应该喷洒进出散热器的管道？
Well, the rationale with putting these cold packs in the axilla, the groin and the neck is that you're getting close to the major arteries.
嗯，将这些冷袋放在腋窝、腹股沟和颈部的理由是，你可以靠近主要动脉。
Sure, that's going to be effective, but it's much more effective if you actually increase the heat-loss capacity of the radiating surface, the radiators.
当然，这会很有效，但如果你实际上增加辐射表面（散热器）的热损失能力，效果会更佳。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So you cool the hot stuff heading toward the core.
所以你冷却了流向核心的热物质。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
That's essentially what the standard operating procedure is, that you hit the arteries.
这本质上就是标准操作程序，即击中动脉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amazing.
太棒了。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
And the veins — the arteries and veins.
还有静脉——动脉和静脉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm going to just tell a brief story that illustrates how almost everybody gets this stuff wrong, and then I'm going to use that as an opportunity to ask you about heating, deliberate heating, as opposed to deliberate cooling.
我只想讲一个简短的故事，说明几乎每个人都犯了错误，然后我将以此为契机向您询问有关加热的问题，故意加热，而不是故意冷却。
So about four months ago, a friend of mine, incidentally a guy who did nine years on the SEAL Team, is a really skilled cold water swimmer.
大约四个月前，我的一个朋友，顺便说一句，他在海豹突击队服役了九年，是一位非常熟练的冷水游泳运动员。
We went out for a swim in the morning.
早上我们出去游泳。
I'm not nearly even close to being in the same universe of his output potential.
我距离他的输出潜力还差得很远。
We do these swims.
我们进行这些游泳。
I'm familiar with them.
我和他们很熟悉。
I got enough blubber on me that I stay warm enough in the cold Pacific, no wetsuits.
我身上有足够的脂肪，可以在寒冷的太平洋中保持足够的温暖，无需穿潜水衣。
We do the morning cold swim for about a mile or so.
我们早上会进行大约一英里左右的冷水游泳。
And we brought with us a young kid that I know real well that hangs out with us sometimes and trains with us who's got very little body fat.
我们还带了一个我很熟悉的小孩子，他有时和我们一起出去玩，和我们一起训练，他的体脂很少。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He's just exceptionally lean despite eating everything in sight.
尽管他吃光了眼前的一切，但他还是异常瘦弱。
Right?
对吗？
Teenager, great athlete, great kid, great swimmer.
青少年，伟大的运动员，伟大的孩子，伟大的游泳运动员。
So we're out there swimming, and at some point we're talking to him, and it's clear that he's gone hypothermic.
所以我们在外面游泳，在某个时候我们正在和他说话，很明显他已经体温过低了。
He's slurring his words.
他说话含糊不清。
He's not doing well.
他过得不好。
So we get him onto the beach.
所以我们把他带到了海滩上。
His teeth are turning yellow.
他的牙齿变黄了。
He's quaking, he's not ...
他在颤抖，他不是……
His saliva is taking on that consistency that's clear, like he's hypothermic.
他的唾液明显变得粘稠，就像他体温过低一样。
We go to the lifeguard station.
我们去救生站。
Lifeguard says, "Okay, let's get his vitals.
救生员说：“好吧，让我们测量他的生命体征。
Let's do all this." Meanwhile, trying to stand next to him and heat him up by heating up his torso.
让我们做这一切吧。”同时，试图站在他旁边，通过加热他的躯干来温暖他。
So there we are pressing against this guy, our friend, trying to heat him up.
所以我们对这个人，我们的朋友施加压力，试图让他升温。
They get a blanket on him.
他们给他盖上毯子。
I'm realizing he was barefoot.
我发现他赤着脚。
His face was exposed.
他的脸暴露了。
Although we did cover his head with the blanket, and he eventually came back.
虽然我们确实用毯子盖住了他的头，但他最终还是回来了。
We got some warm liquids into him, and he was okay.
我们给他注入了一些温热的液体，他没事了。
He was fine.
他很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know that his mother is ever going to let him swim with us again.
我不知道他妈妈会不会再让他和我们一起游泳。
If I ever disappear or go missing, it's because of that incident.
如果我失踪或失踪，都是因为那件事。
Anyway, he did great.
无论如何，他做得很棒。
He recovered.
他康复了。
He's back in the water and doing well.
他已经回到水中并且状况良好。
But I realized that pretty much everything from the point where we got back on the beach until he was back to normal was, we did incorrectly.
但我意识到，从我们回到海滩到他恢复正常，几乎所有事情我们都做错了。
We heated his torso, we left his extremities exposed, and we assumed we were doing the right thing.
我们加热了他的躯干，暴露了他的四肢，我们认为我们做的是正确的事情。
And the lifeguard is a skilled lifeguard at a major public beach.
而救生员是大型公共海滩的熟练救生员。
So I guess the simple question is, did we get everything wrong?
所以我想一个简单的问题是，我们是否一切都错了？
Did we get anything right?
我们做对了什么吗？
And what would've been the better option to heat up a hypothermic person in that or a similar situation?
在这种情况或类似情况下，为体温过低的人加热的更好选择是什么？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, it's interesting you asked that because that is the way we got into this area of investigation.
嗯，你问这个问题很有趣，因为这就是我们进入这个调查领域的方式。
I worked on how the hypothalamus regulates body temperature, neurophysiology.
我研究下丘脑如何调节体温、神经生理学。
And one day we were having a discussion with a colleague in the Department of Anesthesia, and he jokingly said to my colleague, he said, "Yeah, you guys think you know so much about temperature.
有一天我们和麻醉科的一位同事在讨论，他开玩笑地对我的同事说，“是啊，你们以为你们对温度了解得很多。
I bet you couldn't solve a problem we have in the recovery room." "What's that?" "Well, the patients come out of surgery.
我敢打赌你解决不了我们恢复室里的问题。” “那是什么？” “嗯，病人已经从手术中出来了。
They're hypothermic, and it takes us hours to get them to stop shivering." What do they do in the recovery room?
他们体温过低，我们需要几个小时才能让他们停止发抖。”他们在康复室做什么？
Exactly what you suggested.
正是你所建议的。
They put on warm blankets.
他们盖上温暖的毯子。
They put on heat lamps, and it takes them an hour or two hours to get these patients to stop shivering, to bring them back up to ...
他们打开加热灯，花了一两个小时才让这些病人停止发抖，让他们恢复到……
So we say, "Ah, it's a trivial problem." No, it's a heart problem.
所以我们说：“啊，这是一个微不足道的问题。”不，这是心脏问题。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It's a heart problem because when you're under anesthesia, you're vasodilated.
这是一个心脏问题，因为当你处于麻醉状态时，你的血管会扩张。
When you come out of anesthesia, you're hypothermic and you vasoconstrict.
当您从麻醉中苏醒时，您会出现体温过低且血管收缩的情况。
That makes it very difficult to get heat into the body.
这使得热量很难进入体内。
So we got the idea that, well, if we could just take one appendage, like an arm, and we put it in an environment wrapped in a heating pad and a negative pressure, suction, that would pull more blood into that limb, that blood would get heated and it would warm the body up faster.
所以我们的想法是，如果我们能把一个肢体，比如一只手臂，放在一个包裹着加热垫和负压、吸力的环境中，这会将更多的血液吸入该肢体，血液就会被加热，从而使身体更快升温。
So my colleague built a prototype device.
所以我的同事建造了一个原型设备。
You couldn't get such a device into the hospital these days, but we were with our anesthesiologist friend.
现在你无法将这样的设备带入医院，但我们和麻醉师朋友在一起。
We took it into the recovery room, and first thing that patient said, "No way.
我们把它带进康复室，病人说的第一句话是：“不可能。
You're not going to put that on my patient." But he prevailed and first patient didn't shiver at all.
你不会把它放在我的病人身上。”但他赢了，第一个病人根本没有发抖。
First patient was back to normal temperature, core temperature in, I think it was eight minutes.
第一个病人恢复正常体温，核心温度，我想是八分钟。
Eight or nine minutes.
八九分钟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is this now standard practice in hospitals?
这是现在医院的标准做法吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
No, no, no. No, no, no.
不，不，不。不，不，不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So this is another example where I don't get upset about the ...
所以这是另一个例子，我不会因为......
although it's upsetting to know that it's not.
尽管知道事实并非如此令人沮丧。
But I think that it's yet another case where a fundamental problem exists.
但我认为，这又是一个存在根本问题的案例。
There's a science-based solution that makes sense at the level of physiology, engineering and practice, and yet it's not being done.
有一种基于科学的解决方案在生理学、工程和实践层面上都有意义，但尚未实施。
And I mean, that's a whole other discussion as to what the limitations are.
我的意思是，关于限制是什么，这是一个完全不同的讨论。
Well, perhaps, I know a number of our listeners are in the healthcare and medical profession as well as military, athletes, and just also standard other types of jobs, civilians doing other types of work.
嗯，也许，我知道我们的一些听众来自医疗保健和医疗行业，以及军队、运动员，也从事其他类型的工作，从事其他类型工作的平民。
It would be wonderful if people understood this.
如果人们能理解这一点那就太好了。
So once again, is there a homegrown technology that people could use?
那么，是否有一种本土技术可供人们使用呢？
If somebody's hypothermic, what is going to be the best way for them to warm up?
如果有人体温过低，让他们热身的最佳方法是什么？
Is it going to be holding a nice warm mug of cocoa, or something like that?
它会拿着一杯温暖的可可，还是类似的东西？
But not too hot, I guess is, again, the idea.
但我想这又是一个想法：不要太热。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, actually you can go hotter on the glabrous skin.
好吧，实际上你可以在无毛的皮肤上变得更热。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, because it'll dilate.
哦，因为它会膨胀。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Because it takes the heat away faster.
因为它带走热量的速度更快。
But back to the anesthesia, what you can do is you can use warm pads.
但回到麻醉方面，你能做的就是使用温暖的垫子。
They have them in all hospitals.
所有医院都有。
They have circulating water-perfused pads.
他们有循环水灌注垫。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hot water bottle type stuff.
热水瓶之类的东西。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Put them on the feet.
将它们放在脚上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So typically they'll slide them under your lower back, or something like that.
所以通常他们会把它们滑到你的下背部下面，或者类似的东西。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah.
是的。
Put them on the feet.
将它们放在脚上。
Okay, sure.
好吧，当然。
That will do it.
这样就可以了。
But turns out that we discovered through this work that it had nothing to do with the whole arm.
但事实证明，通过这项工作我们发现它与整个手臂无关。
It was only the hand.
那只是手。
And that's when we came to the realization of these special blood vessels.
就在那时我们开始认识到这些特殊的血管。
We didn't discover the blood vessels.
我们没有发现血管。
They're described in "Gray's Anatomy," but nobody knew what they were for.
《实习医生格蕾》中对它们进行了描述，但没有人知道它们的用途。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you mentioned bears earlier, and other hairy animals.
你之前提到过熊和其他毛茸茸的动物。
Do they have these AVAs as well?
他们也有这些 AVA 吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I suppose we haven't defined AVAs.
我想我们还没有定义 AVA。
We've been pretty good about the no acronyms rule.
我们非常遵守禁止使用缩写词的规则。
AVAs is ...
AVA 是...
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Arteriovenous anastomoses.
动静脉吻合术。
So a connection between the arteries and the veins.
所以动脉和静脉之间有联系。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I actually use this technology.
我实际上使用了这项技术。
I have a bulldog, bulldog mastiff.
我有一只斗牛犬，斗牛獒。
He has a very high propensity for overheating because they're terrible at dumping heat.
他非常容易过热，因为它们散发热量的能力很差。
And bulldogs are great at pushing themselves to the point of exhaustion or death.
斗牛犬非常擅长将自己推向精疲力尽或死亡的地步。
It happens.
它发生了。
And so now we do what we call palmar cooling.
所以现在我们进行所谓的手掌冷却。
Sorry, I couldn't help myself, where I'll take Costello and lower him into a cool body of water, just the bottoms of his paws.
抱歉，我无法控制自己，我会带着科斯特洛把他放入凉爽的水中，只放入他的爪子底部。
Although I think animals instinctually know to do this and will go and stand in bodies of water.
尽管我认为动物本能地知道这样做并且会站在水体中。
They don't often lie down all the way.
他们通常不会一直躺着。
Some do.
有些是这样的。
But they seem to know that's a great way to cool themselves off.
但他们似乎知道这是让自己冷静下来的好方法。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah.
是的。
Oh, absolutely.
哦，绝对是。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they get the advantage that their palms and their feet are essentially the same thing.
他们的优势在于他们的手掌和脚本质上是一样的。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
We actually built devices for dogs.
我们实际上为狗制造了设备。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Did you really?
你真的吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
And tried them on.
并试穿了它们。
Iditarod sled dogs, and it worked beautifully.
艾迪塔罗德雪橇犬，效果非常好。
They had little backpacks with the equipment and pads on all their feet, and it worked beautifully.
他们背着小背包，里面装着装备，脚上都垫着护垫，效果很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amazing.
太棒了。
Amazing.
惊人的。
Along the lines of heating, deliberate heating, wearing a knit cap is something that — you see more of that on the East Coast.
沿着取暖的路线，故意取暖，戴针织帽——你在东海岸看到更多这样的事情。
People run around Boston and New England with a knit cap.
人们戴着针织帽在波士顿和新英格兰各地奔跑。
I've always done that at the start of my runs to try and warm up more quickly, and then I take it off.
我总是在跑步开始时这样做，以尝试更快地热身，然后我就把它脱下来。
I shed layers as I go.
我边走边脱层。
Is that a rational practice, the way I just described it?
正如我刚才描述的那样，这是一种理性的做法吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Oh, sure.
哦，当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Because warming up is important too.
因为热身也很重要。
There's a certain amount of quote unquote "warming up" that's required to lubricate joints, or at least to get the sense that joints are lubricated, and to be able to move more easily.
润滑关节需要一定量的“热身”，或者至少要感觉到关节被润滑，并且能够更轻松地移动。
Do you still recommend that people warm up?
你还建议人们热身吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah.
是的。
But I think we're misled by the term "warm up," as if the major purpose is to raise temperature.
但我认为我们被“热身”这个词误导了，好像主要目的是提高温度。
I'm not aware of any data on this, but I do think that the major contribution is increasing flexibility.
我不知道这方面的任何数据，但我确实认为主要贡献是增加灵活性。
So you're going to avoid having damage of joints and tendons and ligaments and so forth.
因此，您将避免关节、肌腱、韧带等损伤。
But also the ability of the mitochondria to produce energy can be impaired at lower temperatures.
但线粒体产生能量的能力在较低温度下也会受到损害。
And you have to keep in mind that we say our body temperature's 37 degrees, but that's not true.
您必须记住，我们说我们的体温是 37 度，但事实并非如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It varies across the day.
它全天变化。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, it varies in parts of your body.
嗯，它因你身体的不同部位而异。
I mean, my hands and arms are not at 37 degrees right now.
我的意思是，我的手和手臂现在不是 37 度。
They're much lower.
他们低得多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So that raises an interesting question.
这就提出了一个有趣的问题。
What is the best way to measure core body temperature?
测量核心体温的最佳方法是什么？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, the best core temperature is, what we use is esophageal.
嗯，最好的核心温度是，我们用的是食道。
So we put a thermocouple up the nose, about two feet down the esophagus so that it's about the level of your heart.
因此，我们将一个热电偶放在鼻子上，距食道约两英尺，使其与心脏处于同一水平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not gym or home practical, although I don't know.
不是健身房或家庭实用的，虽然我不知道。
Some of those COVID swab tests go pretty far.
其中一些新冠病毒拭子检测效果相当不错。
I can't even imagine going any further.
我什至无法想象继续下去。
I felt like my brain was getting tickled, and it really wasn't.
我感觉我的大脑正在发痒，但事实并非如此。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
But tympanic is a pretty good-
但鼓膜是一个相当不错的-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the ear?
那么耳朵呢？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
The ear.
耳朵。
It's not foolproof because you have to actually have it aimed properly at the tympanum.
这并不是万无一失的，因为您必须将其正确瞄准鼓膜。
And frequently what you're getting is you're getting sort of a mixture of tympanic plus ear canal temperature.
通常，您得到的结果是鼓膜温度和耳道温度的混合体。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And for those listening and for those watching, the tympanic is not going to be the pinna, that this part of the ear, the outer part of the ear.
对于那些聆听和观看的人来说，鼓膜不会是耳廓，即耳朵的这一部分，耳朵的外部。
The tympanic is going to be near the ...
鼓膜将靠近...
headed towards the tympanic membrane.
朝向鼓膜。
And yes, I'm sticking my finger in my ear because that's where the laser would actually have to go to measure your temperature.
是的，我把手指伸进耳朵里，因为那是激光实际上必须去测量你的温度的地方。
So when we're walking into restaurants and other places nowadays, and they're shining the laser at our forehead, that's probably giving a pretty crude readout of temperature.
因此，当我们现在走进餐馆和其他地方时，他们用激光照射我们的额头，这可能会给出相当粗略的温度读数。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It is, but there's much less insulation between your brain and your forehead skin than there is between your biceps and your arm skin.
确实如此，但是大脑和前额皮肤之间的绝缘性比二头肌和手臂皮肤之间的绝缘性要少得多。
So if you're going to measure a surface temperature, that's where you would do it.
因此，如果您要测量表面温度，就在那里进行测量。
And we do temperatures in the infrared.
我们用红外线测量温度。
We take infrared videos of athletes and our subjects, and of course, the face lights up.
我们拍摄运动员和拍摄对象的红外视频，当然，脸部会发光。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
So if we're not ...
所以如果我们不...
I imagine there's going to be a technology coming soon where you can point your smartwatch or your smartphone at yourself, and you're going to get a heat map.
我想很快就会出现一种技术，你可以将智能手表或智能手机指向自己，然后你就会得到一张热图。
If somebody out there hasn't already invented this, for the typical folks outside military, somebody please invent that because I think there's growing interest in temperature, based on the work that you're doing.
如果有人还没有发明这个，对于军队以外的典型人来说，请有人发明这个，因为我认为根据你所做的工作，人们对温度越来越感兴趣。
And also for sake of something I do want to touch on, which is sleep and metabolism, although we don't want to open up those portals all the way because we'd need several days to cover it.
另外，我确实想谈一谈睡眠和新陈代谢，尽管我们不想完全打开这些门户，因为我们需要几天的时间来涵盖它。
Okay.
好的。
So putting on the cap, what about some of the helmets and gloves that are used in typical sports?
那么戴上帽子，典型运动中使用的一些头盔和手套怎么样？
Do you think that those can be improved in order to improve performance in terms of their ventilation ability or keeping palmar surfaces open, for instance?
您认为这些可以通过改进来提高通风能力或保持手掌表面开放等方面的性能吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, you mentioned about the knit cap in cold weather, especially, and that is significant because you do lose a lot of heat from your head, but it's a constant heat loss.
嗯，你提到了在寒冷的天气里戴针织帽，这很重要，因为你的头部确实损失了大量的热量，但这是持续的热量损失。
It's not variable like your glabrous skin.
它不像你无毛的皮肤那样多变。
So if you decrease that heat loss, you're going to be warmer.
因此，如果你减少热量损失，你就会变得更暖和。
So sure, that has an impact.
当然，这有影响。
Now, in terms of helmets, they should be ventilated.
现在，就头盔而言，它们应该是通风的。
I mean, they should have enough space in them and holes in them so that air can circulate.
我的意思是，它们应该有足够的空间和孔，以便空气可以流通。
You don't want to insulate, thermally insulate your scalp.
你不想让你的头皮隔热、隔热。
That's going to decrease heat loss quite considerably.
这将大大减少热量损失。
Just for a resting individual, the brain is about 20% of your metabolism.
对于一个休息的人来说，大脑约占新陈代谢的 20%。
So that's a lot of heat production.
所以会产生大量的热量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
I realized there was a question that I failed to ask earlier that is burning in my mind now, and I think is likely burning in the minds of some of the listeners, which is, So if you do this cooling in between sets in the gym, you get this performance-enhancing effect.
我意识到有一个问题我之前没有问过，但现在却在我的脑海中盘旋，我想这可能也在一些听众的脑海中盘旋，那就是，如果你在健身房的组间休息时进行这种冷却，你就会得到这种提高表现的效果。
You don't get the delayed onset muscle soreness, which is great.
你不会出现延迟性肌肉酸痛，这很好。
So presumably the body is adapting.
所以想必身体正在适应。
You're getting better as a consequence of being able to do more work per unit time or to go harder in some way.
由于能够在单位时间内做更多的工作或以某种方式更加努力，你会变得更好。
You get that adaptation.
你得到了这种适应。
Does that mean that you see a performance-enhancing effect even when you don't cool if you've previously done the cooling workouts?
这是否意味着如果您之前进行过降温锻炼，即使您没有降温，您也会看到性能增强的效果？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So for instance, let's say I can do 10 sets of 10 dips, which I like to think I can.
举例来说，假设我可以做 10 组，每组 10 次，我认为我可以。
Maybe I need to go try.
也许我需要去尝试一下。
I don't know if I've done that recently.
我不知道我最近是否这样做过。
I do the cooling.
我负责冷却。
I cool for three minutes between sets, and let's say I get to the point where I can do 20 for 10 sets, 10 sets of 20 repetitions, and then I don't cool.
我在每组之间冷静三分钟，假设我可以做 10 组 20 次，10 组 20 次重复，然后我就不再冷静了。
Will I be able to match or approximate my new better performance?
我能够达到或接近我新的更好的表现吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
You keep your gains.
你保留你的收益。
It's a true conditioning effect.
这是真正的调理效果。
You respond to the increased work volume by all of those mechanisms you mentioned.
您通过您提到的所有这些机制来应对工作量的增加。
You increase the number of contractile elements in your muscles.
您增加了肌肉中收缩元件的数量。
Muscles get bigger.
肌肉变大了。
We had an experiment that involved some of our female students, not athletes, but just regular.
我们进行了一项实验，对象是一些女学生，不是运动员，而是普通学生。
They were freshmen, actually.
事实上，他们是新生。
And the experiment was 10 sets of pushups to muscle failure, with or without cooling.
实验是10组俯卧撑到肌肉衰竭，有或没有冷却。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Same regimen, three minutes of cooling in between sets of pushups.
同样的方案，在两组俯卧撑之间休息三分钟。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Some of those young ladies reached over 800 pushups.
其中一些年轻女士完成了 800 多个俯卧撑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, the total duration of the workout could be getting much longer as a consequence of doing more work.
现在，由于做更多的工作，锻炼的总持续时间可能会变得更长。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
No, no, no. It doesn't take you longer.
不，不，不。这并不需要你更长的时间。
Well, minor.
嗯，小。
I mean, a pushup is pretty fast.
我的意思是，俯卧撑非常快。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
Pretty fast.
相当快。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
So you do 10 sets, the maximum, 45 minutes total.
所以你做 10 组，最多 45 分钟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's a lot of pushups.
这是很多俯卧撑。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
That's a lot of pushups.
这是很多俯卧撑。
And so the interesting thing is they came in one day and they said, "Dr. Heller, you cost us a lot of money." "Why?" "Well, we had a formal dance this weekend.
有趣的是，有一天他们进来说：“海勒博士，你让我们花了很多钱。” “为什么？” “嗯，这个周末我们举行了一场正式的舞会。
We all had to buy new sleeveless dresses."
我们都必须购买新的无袖连衣裙。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nice.
不错。
It's a good problem to have.
这是一个好问题。
Good problem to have.
好问题。
Let's talk about steroids, anabolic steroids.
我们来谈谈类固醇，合成代谢类固醇。
We're heading into an Olympics.
我们即将迎来奥运会。
Every time the Olympics rolls around, you hear about these cases of people getting "popped," as they call it, or caught for anabolic steroids.
每次奥运会召开时，你都会听到人们因服用合成代谢类固醇而“崩溃”的案例。
There's some accusations out there now; there'll be more.
现在有一些指控；还会有更多。
This will get handled in the press and then in the various organizations.
这将在媒体和各个组织中得到处理。
Clearly athletes and nonathletes use anabolic steroids.
显然，运动员和非运动员都使用合成代谢类固醇。
And typically anabolic steroids are of the testosterone variety.
通常合成代谢类固醇是睾酮类固醇。
There are derivatives, et cetera.
还有衍生品等等。
And those derivatives do different things, and anabolic versus androgenic, et cetera.
这些衍生物有不同的作用，合成代谢与雄激素等等。
But typically, the idea is, as least as I understand it in talking to some of these individuals, is that they allow people to train more because they recover faster.
但通常情况下，至少据我在与其中一些人交谈时了解到的，他们的想法是，他们允许人们进行更多训练，因为他们恢复得更快。
They are able to synthesize more protein because they're basically getting a second puberty.
他们能够合成更多的蛋白质，因为他们基本上正在进入第二个青春期。
Because as we all know, during puberty, there's a lot of growth of the body.
因为众所周知，在青春期，身体的生长速度很快。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And of course there are a lot of negative effects of abuse of these things, and they are banned from various sports organizations.
当然，滥用这些东西会产生很多负面影响，并且它们被各种体育组织禁止。
Especially, I should mention, in combat sports.
我应该特别提到的是，在格斗运动中。
This is especially concerning because in combat sports, a performance-enhancement means that you can harm somebody more than you would be able to otherwise, as opposed to in other sorts of sports.
这尤其令人担忧，因为在格斗运动中，与其他类型的运动相反，提高成绩意味着你可以比其他运动更能伤害别人。
Just to conceptualize it, and I'm not taking a moral stance on any of this, I just want to ask you, when you compare palmar cooling to anabolic steroids in terms of gym performance, what do you see?
只是为了概念化它，我对此不采取任何道德立场，我只是想问你，当你在健身房表现方面比较手掌冷却和合成代谢类固醇时，你看到了什么？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, we do not do research on steroids, but there is a lot of research in the literature.
嗯，我们没有对类固醇进行研究，但是文献中有很多研究。
A lot of that research in the strength conditioning magazines, it's not very scientific.
力量训练杂志上的很多研究都不是很科学。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No.
不。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or it might not even be scientific at all.
或者它甚至可能根本不科学。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
But we did do an analysis of reputable papers, and we did find, I think it was probably eight or nine, 10 studies on bench press, increase in bench press performance on steroids, or not.
但我们确实对著名论文进行了分析，我们确实发现，我认为这可能是八、九、10项关于卧推的研究，是否可以通过类固醇来提高卧推表现。
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Males or females?
男性还是女性？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, these were all males, but I'll get back to the females.
好吧，这些都是男性，但我会回到女性。
The bottom line is that in all of these independent studies, their rate of improvement was approximately 1% per week.
底线是，在所有这些独立研究中，改善率约为每周 1%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Okay.
好的。
Now, I've just told you about studies in which we've had 300% increase in a month.
现在，我刚刚告诉你一些研究，我们在一个月内增加了 300%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's an enormous difference.
这是一个巨大的差异。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah.
是的。
So why would you endanger your health as well as your legal ability to compete with such an ineffective tool?
那么，为什么你会危及你的健康以及你与这种无效工具竞争的合法能力呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
No, I think the notion of performance enhancement is a really interesting one because people clearly pay attention to nutrition.
不，我认为提高表现的概念非常有趣，因为人们显然关注营养。
Sleep is now something that I think everybody, but especially athletes, are paying attention to.
我认为睡眠现在是每个人，尤其是运动员，都在关注的事情。
And I predict that temperature will be one of the more powerful parameters that people are going to be focusing on.
我预测温度将成为人们关注的更重要的参数之一。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah, that's true.
是的，确实如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because of the magnitude of the effects that you're describing and also because so much of the variability around performance, as you mentioned, has to do with when you go to a new environment.
因为您所描述的影响的严重程度，也因为正如您提到的，性能的很多变化都与您进入新环境时有关。
Everyone has their home environment worked out pretty well.
每个人的家庭环境都处理得很好。
Sleep well in your own bed at home.
在家里自己的床上睡个好觉。
When you can control everything, your performance is always great.
当你能掌控一切时，你的表现总是很棒的。
This is why I think military special operators are a particularly interesting group, because their whole world is centered around elite and high performance with very high risk, high consequence under variable conditions.
这就是为什么我认为军事特种作战人员是一个特别有趣的群体，因为他们的整个世界都以精英和高性能为中心，在可变条件下具有非常高的风险和高后果。
The essence of their work is variable, unpredictable conditions.
他们工作的本质是可变的、不可预测的条件。
So you mentioned female athletes and steroids.
所以你提到了女运动员和类固醇。
I'm curious about this.
我对此很好奇。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah.
是的。
Because everybody has always said to us, "Well, you only use male subjects, and obviously they have this testosterone background.
因为每个人总是对我们说，“好吧，你只使用男性受试者，显然他们有睾丸激素背景。
They have higher levels of testosterone.
他们的睾酮水平较高。
That's why you get these results." So we did a comparative study on females.
这就是为什么你会得到这些结果。”所以我们对女性做了一项比较研究。
We get the same results.
我们得到相同的结果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Impressive.
令人印象深刻。
And these are our Stanford athletes or also-
这些是我们的斯坦福大学运动员或者也是——
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
No. These were not Stanford.
不，这些不是斯坦福大学。
They were Stanford students but not athletes.
他们是斯坦福大学的学生，但不是运动员。
Well, we have done, of course, work on some athletes, but in general, we don't do research on our teams, our varsity teams.
嗯，当然，我们对一些运动员进行了研究，但总的来说，我们不会对我们的球队、我们的校队进行研究。
They have their own protocols.
他们有自己的协议。
They have their own training programs.
他们有自己的培训计划。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
They don't like us to get too close to them.
他们不喜欢我们离他们太近。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
They don't-
他们不-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. I work with some of these folks and the coaches, and they're very skeptical, with good reason.
不。我与其中一些人和教练一起工作，他们非常怀疑，这是有充分理由的。
Also and the reason I ask is that when you see these Pac-10 or Division I college athletes and then you see their peers, there's clearly a difference.
另外，我问这个问题的原因是，当你看到这些太平洋十校联盟或一级大学运动员以及他们的同龄人时，你会发现明显存在差异。
Right?
正确的？
I mean, they are pedigree throughout, right?
我的意思是，他们自始至终都是纯正的血统，对吧？
And more typical folks also have different goals, that they may not want to get infinitely stronger or perform more endurance work.
更典型的人也有不同的目标，他们可能不想变得无限强壮或进行更多的耐力训练。
So I want to ask you a couple things about shivering and metabolism because I think they're very interesting and sufficiently related.
所以我想问你一些关于颤抖和新陈代谢的问题，因为我认为它们非常有趣并且足够相关。
So my understanding is that shiver...
所以我的理解是颤抖......
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
sufficiently related.
足够相关。
So my understanding is that shiver is an adaptation that's designed to heat us up.
所以我的理解是，颤抖是一种适应，旨在让我们发热。
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS Craig Heller:
第 3 部分（共 4 部分）结束 Craig Heller：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That we have brown fat that's in compartments around our body that are activated by shiver, or coactivated by shiver.
我们身体周围的隔室中有棕色脂肪，这些脂肪会被颤抖激活，或被颤抖共同激活。
And that shivering is useful for increasing metabolism.
颤抖对于增加新陈代谢很有用。
Is that true?
这是真的吗？
And does it require that cold be the stimulus?
是否需要寒冷作为刺激？
Two scenarios.
两种情况。
I'll give you an experiment.
我给你做一个实验。
I put someone into cold water of some sort, and then I make them get out, or I have them stand near it ,and then they start shivering.
我把某人放入某种冷水中，然后让他们出来，或者让他们站在冷水附近，然后他们开始发抖。
My understanding is that their metabolism will increase.
我的理解是他们的新陈代谢会增加。
What if I take someone and I just have them shiver, but they're not exposed by cold.
如果我带某人去，只是让他们发抖，但他们并没有受到寒冷的影响，该怎么办？
It's kind of a deliberate shivering.
这是一种故意的颤抖。
Will that also create a substantial increase in metabolism?
这也会导致新陈代谢的大幅增加吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Sure.
当然。
So deliberate shivering without cold is essentially what happens when you get a fever.
因此，发烧时会发生本质上是在没有感冒的情况下故意发抖。
Your set point goes up in your hypothalamus, and you actually, even though you're at normal body temperature, your thermostat is telling you, "You're too cold, increase your metabolism.
你的下丘脑的设定点上升，实际上，即使你处于正常体温，你的恒温器也会告诉你，“你太冷了，增加你的新陈代谢。
So shiver." Right?
所以颤抖吧。”正确的？
So sure, shivering is a good way of increasing metabolism, but it only can take metabolism up maybe three or four times resting.
当然，发抖是提高新陈代谢的好方法，但它只能使新陈代谢提高大约三到四倍的休息时间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Whereas exercise can take you up 10 times.
而运动可以让你的体重增加10倍。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Got it.
明白了。
All right.
好的。
I'm going to ask a couple of more random questions, seemingly random.
我将问几个更随机的问题，看似随机的问题。
Do bears actually hibernate?
熊真的冬眠吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The true hibernation?
真正的冬眠？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, depends on how you define true.
好吧，取决于你如何定义真实。
A bear, actually, we've done a lot of work on bears.
熊，实际上，我们在熊身上做了很多工作。
We've-
我们已经-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you also put the nose thermocouple down in the esophagus?
您是否也将鼻子热电偶放入食道中？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
But we implant them surgically.
但我们通过手术植入它们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
They're anesthetized when you implant them?
当你植入它们时，它们会被麻醉吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What kind of bears are these?
这些熊是什么品种？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Black bears.
黑熊。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
And did this with colleagues at University of Alaska, and we're analyzing the data now.
和阿拉斯加大学的同事一起做了这个，我们现在正在分析数据。
But what we've done is we've had now a total of 18 bears and we implant them with EEG, EKG, temperature sensors and sometimes we actually measure their oxygen consumption.
但我们所做的是，我们现在总共有 18 只熊，我们给它们植入脑电图、心电图、温度传感器，有时我们还实际测量它们的耗氧量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
These are bears in the wild.
这些是野外的熊。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
These are bears in the wild, but they're brought in to University of Alaska, where we keep them in an outdoor enclosure.
这些是野外的熊，但它们被带到阿拉斯加大学，我们把它们关在室外围栏里。
So they're hibernating in a nest box in an enclosure.
所以它们在围栏的巢箱里冬眠。
And we're recording this electrophysiological data continuously for six months.
我们将连续记录六个月的电生理数据。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amazing.
太棒了。
How do I get on this protocol?
我如何加入这个协议？
Craig and I are doing some work together going forward.
克雷格和我正在共同开展一些工作。
And maybe you can slide me onto this protocol too.
也许你也可以让我了解这个协议。
Sounds amazing.
听起来很棒。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right now it's a matter of just analyzing the gigabytes, terabytes of data that have been collected.
现在只需分析已收集的千兆字节、兆兆字节的数据即可。
But anyway, you asked about hibernation.
但无论如何，你问的是冬眠。
Bears only go down to about 33, 34 degrees centigrade in core temperature.
熊的核心温度只会降至 33 至 34 摄氏度左右。
And that's been argued that, well, they can't go lower because they have so much insulation.
有人认为，嗯，它们不能降低，因为它们有太多的绝缘层。
They're so big, their surface-volume ratio, and so forth.
它们太大了，它们的表面积与体积之比等等。
And that's not true.
但这不是真的。
They shiver.
他们颤抖着。
So if we have a day like a minus 40, which you get up in Alaska, they will go through periods of shivering and maintain a core temperature of 33, 34.
因此，如果有一天气温为零下 40 度，就像阿拉斯加起床时那样，它们会经历一段时间的颤抖，核心温度保持在 33、34 度。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Now the ground squirrels and the marmots, which are smaller animals, they will drop down to a body temperature maybe within a degree of the environment.
现在，地松鼠和土拨鼠都是较小的动物，它们的体温可能会下降到与环境相适应的程度。
So they can go down to one or two degrees centigrade, just above freezing during bouts of hibernation.
因此，在冬眠期间，它们的温度可以降至一到两摄氏度，略高于冰点。
So they'll stay in hibernation for seven or eight days, and they'll come back up to normal body temperature for a day.
所以它们会冬眠七八天，然后一天就会恢复正常体温。
Then they'll go back down-
然后他们就会回去——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What are they doing that day when they're warming up again?
当他们再次热身的那天他们在做什么？
Do they-
他们有吗——
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
They rearrange their nests.
它们重新布置巢穴。
Eat if they've stored food.
如果他们储存了食物，就吃。
Some species store lots of food.
有些物种储存大量食物。
Others just depend on their fat.
其他人只依赖他们的脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A former mentor of mine, my master's degree mentor and a colleague and friend of yours, Irving Zucker, at UC Berkeley, told me a story once, told me a lot of stories, tells great stories, as you know.
我的前导师、我的硕士学位导师、你的同事和朋友，加州大学伯克利分校的欧文·扎克（Irving Zucker）曾经给我讲过一个故事，给我讲了很多故事，讲了很棒的故事，如你所知。
He told me that when an animal comes out of hibernation periodically, that it's a very dramatic thing to observe.
他告诉我，当动物定期从冬眠中醒来时，这是一件非常引人注目的事情。
That it's not like they wake up and yawn and look around, but it's like a complete epileptic seizure.
这不像他们醒来打哈欠环顾四周，而是像完全癫痫发作。
What's going on there?
那里发生了什么事？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Shivering.
发抖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's just a very dramatic shiver.
这只是一种非常戏剧性的颤抖。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Sure.
当然。
So at the low temperatures, they cannot shiver because the effect of temperature on the conduction of the nerves in the muscle fat.
因此，在低温下，它们不会颤抖，因为温度会影响肌肉脂肪中的神经传导。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So they're shut down basically.
所以他们基本上都被关闭了。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
They're shut down.
他们被关闭了。
So there they use brown fat, so activate brown fat.
所以他们使用棕色脂肪，所以激活棕色脂肪。
And then when they get up to a temperature of maybe 15, 16 degrees centigrade, then the shivering starts, and it gets very, very violent.
然后当他们的温度达到15、16摄氏度时，他们就会开始颤抖，而且会变得非常非常剧烈。
But they're still asleep.
但他们还在睡觉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do we shiver in our sleep?
我们在睡梦中会发抖吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
I would imagine we do, but it probably wakes us up.
我想我们会这样做，但这可能会唤醒我们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
So the brown fat is kind of like kindling.
所以棕色脂肪有点像引火物。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
The brown fat is a tissue which has lots of stored energy, 'cause it's fat.
棕色脂肪是一种储存大量能量的组织，因为它是脂肪。
But unlike our white fat, our regular fat, it also has lots of these little powerhouses, mitochondria, and lots of blood supply.
但与我们的白色脂肪、普通脂肪不同，它还含有大量的小发电站、线粒体和大量的血液供应。
So essentially it is a tissue just to produce heat.
所以本质上它是一种只是产生热量的组织。
That's what it's there for.
这就是它的用途。
Now in these hibernators, there are big patches of brown fat at certain locations that are critical — around the heart, for example.
现在，在这些冬眠者的某些关键部位（例如心脏周围）有大片棕色脂肪。
For us, the brown fat is sort of distributed.
对我们来说，棕色脂肪是分散的。
So for many, many years it was thought humans don't have brown fat, but indeed we do.
因此，多年来，人们一直认为人类没有棕色脂肪，但实际上我们有。
It's just not localized into discrete fat pads like it is in ground squirrels, marmots.
它只是不像地松鼠、土拨鼠那样局限于离散的脂肪垫。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know why the phrase "fat pads" is so satisfying to say, but it is.
我不知道为什么“脂肪垫”这个词说起来如此令人满意，但确实如此。
Fat pads.
脂肪垫。
Speaking of fat pads, I was taught that we have — by the Internet, I should say — I was taught by the Internet that we have brown fat between our scapula and our upper neck.
说到脂肪垫，我应该说，通过互联网，我被告知我们有——我应该说——互联网告诉我，我们的肩胛骨和上颈部之间有棕色脂肪。
Is that truly a source of brown enrichment for brown fat?
这真的是棕色脂肪的棕色富集来源吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
If you're a brown squirrel.
如果你是一只棕色松鼠。
So it's complete ...
这样就完整了...
This is all the drawings out there.
这就是所有的图纸了。
So-
所以——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What I'm hearing you say is that brown fat is actually distributed in patches.
我听到你说的是棕色脂肪实际上是成块分布的。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
In humans.
在人类中。
It's distributed along with other fat tissue.
它与其他脂肪组织一起分布。
It's not as discreet.
这不是那么谨慎。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the reason I'm shocked and amused and troubled by this is because there is a somewhat standard protocol in the performance, wellness, whatever world, whatever you want to call it, of putting ice packs on the upper back as a way to stimulate brown fat thermogenesis.
所以我对此感到震惊、好笑和困扰的原因是因为在性能、健康方面有一个有点标准的协议，无论什么世界，无论你想怎么称呼它，将冰袋放在上背部作为刺激棕色脂肪产热的一种方式。
I'm hearing some inhales of concern from the physiologists.
我听到生理学家们发出了一些担忧的声音。
So tell me why ...
那么告诉我为什么...
It sounds like that's probably not the best way to stimulate brown fat activation.
听起来这可能不是刺激棕色脂肪激活的最佳方法。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, let's put it this way.
好吧，让我们这样说吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're not attacking anyone specifically, because the whole world believes this.
你并不是专门攻击任何人，因为全世界都相信这一点。
So it doesn't-
所以它不-
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
But it may not be totally facetious or false.
但这可能并不完全是开玩笑或虚假的。
Think of what that's doing.
想想那是做什么的。
If you put ice right there where your spinal cord is close to the surface, that's where you're going to hit the vertebral arteries.
如果你把冰放在脊髓靠近表面的地方，那就是你会击中椎动脉的地方。
So you're essentially putting a cold source into the brain, to the hypothalamus.
所以你本质上是将一个冷源放入大脑、下丘脑。
The hypothalamus says you're too cold.
下丘脑说你太冷了。
So it is going to turn on shivering and brown fat.
所以它会引起颤抖和棕色脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Would there be a better sight for sake of activating brown fat?
为了激活棕色脂肪，还有更好的视觉效果吗？
Palmar cooling?
手掌降温？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
I can't say, because the activation of brown fat is a sympathetic nervous system response.
我不能说，因为棕色脂肪的激活是交感神经系统的反应。
So any lowering of core temperature that will let the thermostat say you're too cold is going to turn on sympathetic.
因此，任何核心温度的降低都会让恒温器说你太冷了，这都会激活交感神经。
Now, people will have perhaps different amounts of brown fat.
现在，人们可能会有不同数量的棕色脂肪。
So newborn have more brown fat than adults.
所以新生儿比成人有更多的棕色脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because newborns can't shiver, correct?
因为新生儿不能发抖，对吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
I don't know.
我不知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
That's what I read.
这就是我读到的。
I don't know if it's true.
我不知道这是不是真的。
I read that in what I believe to be credible sources.
我在我认为可靠的来源中读到了这一点。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah, it could be.
是的，可能是。
I just don't know.
我只是不知道。
It depends on if it's really newborn, I can agree, because you don't have all of the motor pathways connected up yet.
我同意，这取决于它是否真的是新生儿，因为你还没有连接所有的运动通路。
That's something that occurs in early days of life and is probably one of the functions of REM sleep, which infants have a lot of.
这是在生命早期发生的事情，可能是快速眼动睡眠的功能之一，婴儿有很多这种睡眠。
But how to activate brown fat if you are consistently exposed to cold, so if you live in the Arctic, and you go out jogging in the winter, maybe that will increase the amount of brown fat you have.
但是，如果你持续暴露在寒冷中，如何激活棕色脂肪，所以如果你住在北极，并且在冬天出去慢跑，也许这会增加你的棕色脂肪含量。
If you live in the tropics, maybe you have less brown fat.
如果您生活在热带地区，也许您的棕色脂肪较少。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know of any studies which have looked into that.
我不知道有任何研究对此进行过研究。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Ice headache.
冰头痛。
Sometimes I'll drink a cold beverage or I'll eat ice cream, and my head will be splitting-
有时候喝点冷饮或者吃冰淇淋，我的头就会裂开——
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Brain freeze.
大脑冻结。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Brain freeze.
大脑冻结。
And speaking of special forces, I was talking to ...
说到特种部队，我正在谈论......
We all see the images, the SEAL training/screening in Coronado where they're going in and out of the Pacific, which is very cold, but I know they also spend some time in the very cold waters of Kodiak, Alaska.
我们都看到了这些图像，海豹突击队在科罗纳多进行训练/放映，他们进出太平洋，那里非常寒冷，但我知道他们也在阿拉斯加科迪亚克非常寒冷的水域度过了一段时间。
You mentioned Alaska.
你提到了阿拉斯加。
Brain freeze, so-called ice headache, is a common occurrence there in those situations.
大脑冻结，即所谓的冰头痛，在这些情况下很常见。
But we all have experienced this.
但我们都经历过这一点。
We eat ice cream, you get that brain freeze that, I can feel it right now a little bit — subjectively, I can induce it.
我们吃冰淇淋，你的大脑会冻结，我现在就能感觉到一点——主观上，我可以诱导它。
What's going on there?
那里发生了什么事？
And I would always just rub my tongue on the roof of my mouth.
我总是用舌头摩擦上颚。
Is there something that I'm doing that's functional there just to try and alleviate it?
我正在做一些有用的事情来尝试缓解它吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Good question.
好问题。
The thing is that the roof of your mouth is very close to your hypothalamus.
问题是你的上颚距离下丘脑非常近。
So if indeed it's a popsicle that's giving you the brain freeze, it may be a direct cooling effect from the roof of your mouth and you put your tongue there, you're insulating the roof of your mouth.
因此，如果确实是一根冰棒让你的大脑冻结，那可能是你上颚的直接冷却效果，你把舌头放在那里，你就隔离了上颚。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I'm guessing.
我猜。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But what's the source of the brain freeze?
但大脑冻结的根源是什么？
Is it a vasoconstriction?
是血管收缩吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It's a vasomotor change.
这是血管舒缩的变化。
Whether it's constriction, I think it's more likely an increase in blood pressure, which will essentially cause an expansion of the arteries and activate pain receptors.
无论是收缩，我认为更有可能是血压升高，这本质上会导致动脉扩张并激活疼痛感受器。
We don't have pain receptors in the neural tissue in the brain.
我们大脑的神经组织中没有疼痛感受器。
We have them in the meninges and predominantly associated with the blood vessels, the walls of the blood vessels.
它们位于脑膜中，主要与血管、血管壁相关。
So if you have something which will dramatically increase your blood pressure going to the brain, you're likely to get a ...
因此，如果您有某种东西会急剧增加流向大脑的血压，您可能会……
We've had some preliminary data.
我们已经有了一些初步数据。
I even hate to mention this because we have not been able to pursue it systematically, but we've had some experience with people with migraine that say if they use one of our devices to heat, then the migraine goes away, and don't know.
我什至讨厌提及这一点，因为我们无法系统地追求它，但我们对偏头痛患者有一些经验，他们说如果他们使用我们的一个设备加热，那么偏头痛就会消失，但不知道。
The-
该-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A lot of people suffer from migraine.
很多人都患有偏头痛。
I know there are a lot of different types of migraine.
我知道偏头痛有很多不同类型。
Been reading a lot about this lately because I get so many questions about migraine, but-
最近读了很多这方面的文章，因为我收到了很多关于偏头痛的问题，但是-
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
I hate to say anything.
我讨厌说什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
And we'll just underscore this as preliminary, and people have been great about understanding that when we say preliminary we mean it has not passed through the required filters to call it hard fact yet.
我们只是强调这是初步的，人们很容易理解，当我们说初步时，我们的意思是它还没有通过所需的过滤器来称之为硬事实。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
We don't even have a decent data set.
我们甚至没有像样的数据集。
These are anecdotal reports.
这些都是轶事报道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Anecdata, as we like to ...
轶事，正如我们喜欢的那样...
But I don't even like to call it that because then if ...
但我什至不喜欢这样称呼它，因为如果……
We don't want to give it more weight than it deserves.
我们不想给予它超过其应有的权重。
But that's interesting.
但这很有趣。
The ice headache and the increase in blood pressure is interesting because the only thing that I've heard is similar to it is something that comes from, they have these competitions where people eat these very hot chili peppers.
冰头痛和血压升高很有趣，因为我听说的唯一与它相似的事情是来自他们举办的比赛，人们吃这些非常辣的辣椒。
It's kind of an ego thing, I guess, for reasons that escape me, that eating really hot pepper — and every once in a while someone will eat one of these and get what's called thunder clap headache, where a headache comes on extremely quickly, and so quickly that it's caused, and so severe, rather, that it's been known to cause stroke and brain damage.
我想，吃辣椒是一种自我意识的问题，我不明白，吃辣椒是一种自负——每隔一段时间，就会有人吃辣椒，然后得所谓的“雷击性头痛”，这种头痛来得非常快，而且发生得如此之快，而且如此严重，以至于众所周知，它会导致中风和脑损伤。
So these very, very, very hot peppers, if you're not acclimated to them, and maybe even if you are, have been shown to actually cause brain damage.
因此，这些非常非常辣的辣椒，如果你不适应它们，也许即使你适应了，也已被证明实际上会导致大脑损伤。
Some good evidence for this.
一些很好的证据证明了这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do want to talk about something that we have not touched on yet, which is NEAT, non-exercise induced thermogenesis.
我确实想谈谈一些我们尚未触及的事情，即 NEAT、非运动引起的生热作用。
So non-activity associated thermogenesis, and the fidgeters, right?
那么非活动相关的产热和坐立不安，对吧？
So the classic work of Rothwell and Stock and the idea that some people who overeat are burning off that energy by way of shaking their knee or moving around a lot, the quote, unquote, nervous types.
因此，罗斯韦尔和斯托克的经典作品以及一些饮食过量的人通过晃动膝盖或频繁走动来消耗能量的想法，引用，不引用，紧张类型。
But they quoted in those studies a huge degree of caloric burn: 800, 2500 calories per day burned above those who sit rather still.
但他们在这些研究中引用了巨大程度的卡路里燃烧：每天比那些坐着不动的人燃烧 800 至 2500 卡路里。
Does that seem farfetched?
这看起来牵强吗？
Those are older data, but any comment on NEAT or non-exercise induced thermogenesis?
这些是较旧的数据，但对 NEAT 或非运动诱导生热有什么评论吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, I do think it's pretty straightforward that if you increase muscle activity of any kind, you're increasing your energy consumption and your heat production.
嗯，我确实认为这是非常简单的，如果你增加任何类型的肌肉活动，你就会增加你的能量消耗和热量产生。
And the really extreme example is hyper and hypothyroidism.
真正极端的例子是甲状腺功能亢进症和甲状腺功能减退症。
People that are hyperthyroid are fidgety, and they have a high metabolic rate and they're hot.
甲状腺功能亢进的人烦躁不安，新陈代谢率高，而且很热。
And people that are hyperthermic are cool, they don't move very much.
体温过高的人很酷，他们不怎么动。
So any kind of muscle activity increases.
所以任何类型的肌肉活动都会增加。
And when you say it's not much activity, but remember, it's only 20% effective.
当你说这活动不多时，但请记住，它只有 20% 的效果。
Eighty percent of the energy is going to heat.
百分之八十的能量将被用来加热。
So it may not exert much energy to tap your foot, but four times the amount of energy that is going into the movement is being lost as heat.
因此，敲击脚可能不会产生太多能量，但四倍于运动的能量会以热量的形式损失掉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's very interesting.
这很有趣。
A couple more quick questions.
还有几个简单的问题。
There's a lot of excitement these days, or at least usage these days, of so-called energy drinks or preworkout drinks.
如今，所谓的能量饮料或锻炼前饮料令人兴奋，或者至少是现在的使用。
Many of these contain thermogenetic compounds.
其中许多含有生热化合物。
So caffeine.
所以咖啡因。
There's a culture now of taking arginine, things that support arginine.
现在有一种服用精氨酸的文化，即支持精氨酸的物质。
So beet juice and L-citrulline, things to dilate the blood vessels.
甜菜汁和L-瓜氨酸是扩张血管的物质。
Sometimes this is for sake of increasing blood flow to the muscles during resistance exercise, but a lot of these are thermogenic.
有时这是为了在抗阻运动期间增加流向肌肉的血液，但其中很多都是生热的。
It's to increase body temperature.
是为了提高体温。
And is it possible that some of these energy drinks are actually, or similar, six espresso or whatever it is, are acting to prevent optimal performance or reduced performance?
有没有可能这些能量饮料中的一些实际上是或类似的六杯浓缩咖啡或其他什么东西，正在起到防止最佳性能或降低性能的作用？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
I don't think that the temperature rise is that, I really don't know.
我不认为温度升高是这样的，我真的不知道。
But what it does is it makes you more jittery, and you're going to increase that NEAT that you were talking about.
但它的作用是让你更加紧张，并且你会增加你所说的 NEAT。
Or it's another thing.
或者是另一回事。
And that is that when you are exercising your muscle and it becomes slightly hypoxic, the oxygen supplier is not enough, the muscle releases adenosine.
那就是当你锻炼肌肉时，它变得轻微缺氧，氧气供应不足，肌肉会释放腺苷。
And what adenosine does in the muscle is cause the blood vessels to open up, to dilate.
腺苷在肌肉中的作用是导致血管打开、扩张。
So it's a way of increasing the blood flow to the muscle and therefore the oxygen supply to the muscle.
因此，这是增加肌肉血流量以及肌肉氧气供应的一种方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Caffeine is in essentially an adenosine antagonist.
咖啡因本质上是一种腺苷拮抗剂。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Adenosine antagonist.
腺苷拮抗剂。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So under the strict logic, ingesting caffeine will reduce adenosine release and will reduce oxygen utilization of the muscle?
那么按照严格的逻辑，摄入咖啡因会减少腺苷的释放，并会减少肌肉的氧气利用率吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So that would lead me to believe that, motivational support aside, that caffeine will hinder muscular performance.
因此，这会让我相信，除了动机支持之外，咖啡因会阻碍肌肉表现。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
I would think so, but I can't give you an authoritative answer on that.
我也这么认为，但我无法给你一个权威的答案。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
We're just going through the logic and the gymnastics around that.
我们只是围绕这个逻辑和体操进行讨论。
I think it's a fascinating area that deserves attention, because the question of what one can ingest in order to perform better, to say nothing of hormone augmentation, but often leads back to stimulants.
我认为这是一个值得关注的有趣领域，因为一个人可以摄入什么来表现更好的问题，更不用说增加激素了，但往往会导致兴奋剂。
And if those stimulants, most of which include caffeine of some sort, are inhibiting the adenosine system, and the adenosine system is supporting the oxygenation of muscle, then I would imagine that avoiding them might be the better option.
如果这些兴奋剂（其中大部分包括某种咖啡因）抑制腺苷系统，而腺苷系统支持肌肉的氧合作用，那么我想避免它们可能是更好的选择。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Yeah, I just am not aware of data that would ...
是的，我只是不知道数据会......
So this is a general phenomenon of adenosine and blood flow.
所以这是腺苷和血流的普遍现象。
It has, of course, a different effect in the brain.
当然，它对大脑有不同的影响。
Adenosine causes sleep, so caffeine keeps you awake, and if you stay awake, you're going to have a higher metabolic rate than if you go to sleep.
腺苷会导致睡眠，因此咖啡因会让你保持清醒，如果你保持清醒，你的新陈代谢率会比睡觉时更高。
And the thing is, you say energy drinks, the question is what really is in them?
问题是，你说能量饮料，问题是它们到底含有什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's usually a cocktail of things.
它通常是鸡尾酒。
I don't take these, I don't like them at all.
我不接受这些，我一点也不喜欢它们。
But their usually a combination of vasodilators, caffeine, some sort of stimulant.
但它们通常是血管扩张剂、咖啡因和某种兴奋剂的组合。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
And a source of glucose, usually.
通常也是葡萄糖的来源。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sometimes a source of glucose and sometimes not.
有时是葡萄糖的来源，有时不是。
And oftentimes there are vasodilators, and there are compounds that are thought to be nootropics, smart drugs that basically increase acetylcholine or epinephrine transmission.
通常有血管扩张剂，还有一些被认为是促智药的化合物，这些聪明的药物基本上会增加乙酰胆碱或肾上腺素的传输。
In the '80s and '90s, the beta-3 agonists like clenbuterol were very popular, but they were all banned.
在80年代和90年代，瘦肉精等β3激动剂非常流行，但都被禁止了。
So those are all banned from ...
所以这些都被禁止了...
Although people use them recreationally, which I do not recommend.
尽管人们只是为了娱乐而使用它们，但我不推荐这样做。
There were actually a number of deaths due to dehydration, overheating, as well as cardiac effects.
事实上，有许多人因脱水、过热以及心脏影响而死亡。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Before we wrap up, I know you've done a ton of work on sleep.
在我们结束之前，我知道您在睡眠方面做了很多工作。
I think we're going to have to do another episode about your work on sleep, because the amount of data that you produce there is vast.
我想我们必须再做一集关于你在睡眠方面的工作，因为你产生的数据量是巨大的。
Actually that's how I first got to know you and your work, related to sleep and temperature.
事实上，这就是我第一次了解你和你的工作，与睡眠和温度有关。
We all hear nowadays that it's good to keep the room that you sleep in cool.
如今，我们都听说保持睡眠房间凉爽有好处。
Keep it dark.
保持黑暗。
I've talked a number of times on podcast episodes about the role of light and shifting and circadian rhythms.
我在播客节目中多次谈论过光、变化和昼夜节律的作用。
I have two questions related to sleep.
我有两个关于睡眠的问题。
One is, are there any things that may or may not relate to temperature, but that you think are very useful for getting better sleep that you don't hear that much about, that people might want to consider or try?
一是，是否有任何可能与温度相关或无关的事情，但您认为对获得更好的睡眠非常有用，但您没有听说过太多，人们可能想要考虑或尝试？
Realizing that there are a lot of reasons why people don't sleep great, but what are some things that you don't hear that much about these days that you wish people knew?
意识到人们睡不好的原因有很多，但有哪些事情是你现在很少听到但希望人们知道的呢？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, the sleep medicine community now puts a lot more emphasis on cognitive behavioral therapy than on pharmacology.
嗯，睡眠医学界现在更加重视认知行为疗法而不是药理学。
So what cognitive behavioral therapy does is it essentially increases your sleep hygiene.
因此，认知行为疗法的作用是从本质上改善您的睡眠卫生。
So there are certain, just general rules.
所以有一些确定的、只是一般性的规则。
So have a regular bedtime and a regular arousal time.
因此，要有规律的就寝时间和规律的起床时间。
Don't be skipping back and forth all the time.
不要总是来回跳动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Arousal, you mean wake-up time?
觉醒，你是说起床时间吗？
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Wake-up time, yeah.
起床时间，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Spoken like a true physiologist.
像真正的生理学家一样说话。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Another thing is don't use screens within a couple hours of bedtime, because screens are predominantly rich in blue light.
另一件事是不要在睡前几个小时内使用屏幕，因为屏幕主要富含蓝光。
And what that does is you mentioned the circadian system.
这就是你提到的昼夜节律系统。
That affects your circadian system; that pushes off your circadian stimulus for sleep.
这会影响您的昼夜节律系统；这会推迟你的睡眠昼夜节律刺激。
Another thing is of course, relax.
当然还有一件事，那就是放松。
Don't work right up until the time you're going to bed.
直到睡觉前才开始工作。
Take some time to do something relaxing.
花一些时间做一些放松的事情。
And then temperature, you've mentioned that, and for many people, a warm bath is really conducive to good sleep.
然后是温度，你提到了，对于很多人来说，洗个热水澡确实有利于良好的睡眠。
And people are now swearing by a cooler environment for sleep.
人们现在非常希望有一个凉爽的睡眠环境。
And that makes sense in terms of the circadian effect on body temperature.
就昼夜节律对体温的影响而言，这是有道理的。
So our circadian clock is affecting our thermostat.
所以我们的生物钟正在影响我们的恒温器。
So at the time we go to bed, our thermostat is on its way down to a lower set point.
因此，当我们上床睡觉时，我们的恒温器正在降至较低的设定点。
So what happens?
那么会发生什么呢？
You go to bed and you're feeling a little bit cool.
你上床睡觉，感觉有点凉爽。
So you pile on lots of blankets.
所以你堆了很多毯子。
And then what happens is you wake up a little bit later and you're hot, so you throw them off.
然后发生的事情是，你醒得晚了一点，你觉得很热，所以你把它们扔掉了。
It's because your thermostat has set downward.
这是因为你的恒温器调低了。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Now why is it better to have a cool environment?
那么为什么最好有一个凉爽的环境呢？
It's better to have a cool environment because it's easier to thermoregulate.
最好有一个凉爽的环境，因为这样更容易调节体温。
So you go to Europe in the summertime, and the hotel rooms still have these big comforters, these down comforters.
所以你夏天去欧洲，酒店房间里仍然有这些大被子，这些羽绒被。
So how do you deal with that?
那么你如何处理这个问题呢？
You stick out your hands and your legs.
你伸出你的手和腿。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've always slept with, I have one leg that just hangs out of the, yeah.
我一直睡着，我的一条腿就悬在外面，是的。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
But they're your heat loss surfaces.
但它们是你的热量损失表面。
So if you're in a cool environment, you can take advantage of that.
因此，如果您处于凉爽的环境中，您可以利用这一点。
You can take advantage by passively regulating your body temperature.
您可以通过被动调节体温来利用这一点。
You don't have to get up and wake up and say, "Oh my God, I got to change the covers or blankets," or what have you.
你不必起床后说：“天哪，我得换床单或毯子”，或者你有什么。
If you're in a warm environment, what can you do?
如果你处在一个温暖的环境中，你能做什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You need to sleep with one hand in the CoolMitt.
您需要将一只手放在 CoolMitt 中睡觉。
And right now that's not available yet.
目前还无法实现。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
It's not available.
它不可用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've never heard about it that way.
我从来没有听说过这样的事情。
I've always heard you want to sleep in a cool room or keep the room cold.
我一直听说你想睡在凉爽的房间里或保持房间寒冷。
But I never realized why that's useful, which is, as you're saying, that then you can move these glabrous surfaces in and out.
但我从来没有意识到为什么这很有用，正如你所说，那就是你可以将这些无毛表面移进移出。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
You can passively-
你可以被动地——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You could even also wake up under the blanket completely-
甚至还可以完全在毯子下醒来——
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Your face, yeah.
你的脸，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Very, very interesting.
非常非常有趣。
Finally a rational, science-grounded explanation for why we need to sleep in a cool room.
最后，我们对为什么我们需要睡在凉爽的房间里进行了理性、有科学依据的解释。
Because I always thought, well if your temperature's going down anyway, why do you have to sleep in a cool room?
因为我一直在想，如果你的体温无论如何都会下降，为什么你必须睡在凉爽的房间里呢？
What about wearing socks while you sleep?
睡觉时穿袜子怎么样？
That was big a few years ago where they said you should put socks on.
几年前，他们说你应该穿上袜子，这很重要。
Now I would think that's probably the wrong advice.
现在我认为这可能是错误的建议。
You probably just-
你可能只是——
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Well, I don't know if it's wrong advice.
嗯，我不知道这是不是错误的建议。
There's an old, old study that was supported by, I think, Eddie Bauer, the sleeping bag company.
我认为有一项非常非常古老的研究得到了睡袋公司埃迪·鲍尔 (Eddie Bauer) 的支持。
And what the study was asking is what are the most temperature sensitive spots in the body?
这项研究的目的是问身体中对温度最敏感的部位是什么？
Where do you feel cold?
你哪里感觉冷？
And what that showed was it was the toes.
所显示的是脚趾。
S.
S。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Makes sense.
有道理。
So when you sample water with your toe, you always see that.
因此，当您用脚趾采样水时，您总会看到这一点。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
So the socks essentially are promoting thermal comfort by insulating that area that's quite sensitive.
因此，袜子本质上是通过隔离非常敏感的区域来提高热舒适度。
Now of course, if it's too warm, you're not going to put socks on.
当然，如果天气太热，你就不会穿袜子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Well, Craig, thank you so much.
嗯，克雷格，非常感谢你。
You gave so much information that's actionable and interesting.
您提供了很多可操作且有趣的信息。
I know a lot of people are going to be really interested in the palmar cooling technology from CoolMitt.
我知道很多人会对 CoolMitt 的手掌冷却技术非常感兴趣。
We will be sure to provide resources to the website so that people can register interest.
我们一定会向网站提供资源，以便人们可以注册兴趣。
I do encourage people to play around with, so to speak, the palmar cooling technology that we all have, which are these glabrous surfaces.
我确实鼓励人们尝试一下我们都拥有的手掌冷却技术，即这些无毛表面。
And also just want to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to share this information.
我还要感谢您在百忙之中抽出时间来分享这些信息。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
You're welcome.
不客气。
It was fun.
很有趣。
It was lots of fun.
这很有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I certainly learned a lot and I know a lot of people are going to learn a lot at that's useful to them.
我确实学到了很多东西，而且我知道很多人都会学到很多对他们有用的东西。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Good questions.
好问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, fabulous answers.
嗯，精彩的答案。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Craig Heller:
克雷格·海勒：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining for my discussion with Dr. Craig Heller.
感谢您参加我与克雷格·海勒博士的讨论。
If you're enjoying this podcast and learning from it, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您喜欢这个播客并从中学习，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
As well you can give us feedback in the comment section on YouTube as to topics you would like us to cover, future guests and so on.
您也可以在 YouTube 的评论部分向我们提供反馈，包括您希望我们报道的主题、未来的嘉宾等。
Also, please subscribe to the podcast on Apple and on Spotify.
另外，请订阅 Apple 和 Spotify 上的播客。
And on Apple you have the opportunity to leave us up to a five-star review and you can leave us a comment or feedback there as well.
在 Apple 上，您有机会给我们留下五星级的评价，也可以在那里给我们留下评论或反馈。
Please also check out our sponsors that we mentioned at the beginning of the podcast.
另请查看我们在播客开头提到的赞助商。
That's a terrific way to support our podcast.
这是支持我们播客的好方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In addition, if you're interested in supporting research in the Huberman Lab at Stanford, you can go to hubermanlab.stanford.edu/giving.
此外，如果您有兴趣支持斯坦福大学 Huberman 实验室的研究，可以访问 hubermanlab.stanford.edu/giving。
And there you can make a tax-deductible donation to support research in my laboratory on stress, human performance, sleep, and trauma, and topics of that sort.
在那里，您可以进行免税捐款，以支持我的实验室关于压力、人类表现、睡眠和创伤以及此类主题的研究。
If you're not already following us at Huberman Lab on Instagram or Twitter, you're welcome to do so.
如果您还没有在 Instagram 或 Twitter 上关注 Huberman Lab，我们欢迎您这样做。
On Instagram I do short neuroscience tutorials that are separate from the tutorials that I tend to do on the podcast.
我在 Instagram 上制作简短的神经科学教程，这些教程与我在播客上制作的教程是分开的。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。
PART 4 OF 4 ENDS
第 4 部分（共 4 部分）结束