Dr. Brian Keating: Charting the Architecture of the Universe & Human Life

Andrew Huberman: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

Andrew Huberman：欢迎来到 Huberman 实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。

I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

My guest today is Dr. Brian Keating.

今天我的客人是布赖恩·基廷博士。

Dr. Brian Keating is a professor of cosmology at the University of California, San Diego.

布莱恩·基廷博士是加州大学圣地亚哥分校的宇宙学教授。

Today's discussion is perhaps the most zoomed-out discussion that we've ever had on this podcast.

今天的讨论可能是我们在此播客上进行过的最缩小范围的讨论。

What I mean by that is today we talk about the origins of the universe, we talk about the Earth's relationship to the sun and to the other planets, we talk a lot about optics.

我的意思是，今天我们谈论宇宙的起源，我们谈论地球与太阳和其他行星的关系，我们谈论很多光学。

So not just the neuroscience of vision and our ability to see things up close and far away, but to see things very, very far away or very, very close up using telescopes or microscopes, respectively.

因此，不仅是视觉神经科学以及我们观察近距离和远处事物的能力，还包括分别使用望远镜或显微镜观察非常非常远或非常非常近的事物。

So today's discussion is a far-reaching one, literally and figuratively, and one that I know everyone will appreciate because it really will teach you how the scientific process is carried out.

因此，今天的讨论无论从字面上还是比喻上都是意义深远的，我知道每个人都会欣赏这一讨论，因为它确实会教你如何进行科学过程。

It will also help you understand that science is indeed a human endeavor and that much of what we understand about ourselves and about the world around us, and indeed the entire universe, is filtered through that humanness.

它还将帮助您了解科学确实是人类的努力，我们对自己和周围世界乃至整个宇宙的大部分了解都是通过人性过滤的。

But I want to be very clear that today's discussion is not abstract.

但我想非常明确的是，今天的讨论并不抽象。

You're going to learn a lot of concrete facts about the universe, about humanity, and about the process of discovery.

你将学到很多关于宇宙、人类以及发现过程的具体事实。

In fact, much of what we talk about today is about the process of humans discovering things about themselves and about the world.

事实上，我们今天谈论的大部分内容都是关于人类发现有关自己和世界的过程。

Dr. Keating has an incredible perspective and approach to science, having built, for instance, giant telescopes down at the South Pole and having taken on many other truly ambitious builds in service to this thing we call discovery.

基廷博士对科学有着令人难以置信的视角和方法，例如，他在南极建造了巨型望远镜，并进行了许多其他真正雄心勃勃的建设，以服务于我们称之为发现的事物。

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。

In keeping with that theme, this podcast episode does include sponsors.

为了与这个主题保持一致，这个播客节目确实有赞助商。

And now for my discussion with Dr. Brian Keating.

现在我与布赖恩·基廷博士进行讨论。

Dr. Brian Keating, welcome.

布莱恩·基廷博士，欢迎光临。

Dr. Brian Keating: Dr. Andrew Huberman.

布莱恩·基廷博士：安德鲁·胡伯曼博士。

It's great to meet you in person finally.

很高兴终于见到你本人了。

I thought you were a legend.

我以为你是一个传奇。

Andrew Huberman: I exist in real life and you do as well.

Andrew Huberman：我存在于现实生活中，你也存在。

And I'm delighted that we're going to talk today because I have a long-standing adoration.

我很高兴我们今天要谈话，因为我有一个长期的崇拜。

There's no other appropriate word — for eyes, vision, optics, the stars, the moon, the sun, I mean animals, humans.

没有其他合适的词来形容眼睛、视觉、光学、星星、月亮、太阳，我指的是动物、人类。

What's more interesting than how we got here and how we see things and what we see and why?

还有什么比我们如何来到这里、我们如何看待事物、我们所看到的以及为什么更有趣的呢？

Dr. Brian Keating: That's right.

布莱恩·基廷博士：没错。

Andrew Huberman: You're a physicist, you're a cosmologist, not a cosmetologist.

安德鲁·休伯曼：你是一位物理学家，你是一位宇宙学家，而不是美容师。

Dr. Brian Keating: That's right.

布莱恩·基廷博士：没错。

I do do hair and makeup, if you're interested.

如果你有兴趣的话，我做头发和化妆。

Andrew Huberman: Please orient us in the galaxy.

Andrew Huberman：请为我们在银河系中定位。

Dr. Brian Keating: So I get to study the entire universe, basically.

Brian Keating 博士：所以我基本上可以研究整个宇宙。

And it's not really such a stretch that cosmetology and cosmology share this prefix because the prefix cosmos is what relates those two words together that seem to be completely, you know, unrelated to each other.

美容学和宇宙学共享这个前缀并不是什么夸张的事情，因为前缀宇宙是将这两个词联系在一起，你知道，这两个词似乎完全无关。

But it turns out the word "cosmos" in Greek, the etymology of it is beautiful or appearance.

但事实证明，希腊语中的“宇宙”一词，其词源是美丽或外观。

So we have a beautiful appearance.

这样我们就有了美丽的外表。

You know, we look a certain way, we're attracted to certain things, but it kind of reflects the fact that the night sky is also beautiful, attractive, and evokes something viscerally in us.

你知道，我们以某种方式看待，我们被某些事物所吸引，但这在某种程度上反映了这样一个事实：夜空也是美丽的、有吸引力的，并唤起了我们内心深处的某些东西。

We humans are born with two refracting telescopes in our skulls, embedded in our skulls.

我们人类生来就有两个折射望远镜，嵌在我们的头骨里。

And as you point out, you know, the retina is outside the cranial vault.

正如您所指出的，您知道，视网膜位于颅顶之外。

I'll never forget you saying that.

我永远不会忘记你说过的话。

That means we have astronomical detection tools built into us.

这意味着我们内置了天文探测工具。

We don't have tools to detect the Higgs boson built into us or to look at a microscopic virus or something like that.

我们没有工具来检测我们体内的希格斯玻色子或观察微观病毒或类似的东西。

So astronomy is not only the oldest of all sciences, it's the most visceral one, so connects us.

因此，天文学不仅是所有科学中最古老的一门，而且是最本质的一门科学，因此将我们联系在一起。

And of the sciences, of that branch of science, of astronomical sciences, cosmology is really the most overarching.

在科学中，在科学的分支中，在天文学科学中，宇宙学确实是最重要的。

It really includes everything, all physical processes that were involved in the formation of matter, of energy, maybe of time itself.

它确实包括一切事物，所有涉及物质、能量甚至时间本身形成的物理过程。

And it speaks to a universal urge, I think, to know what came before us.

我认为，它体现了一种普遍的渴望，想要知道我们之前发生了什么。

Like I always ask people, I'll ask you.

就像我总是问别人一样，我也会问你。

I know what the answer is, probably.

我大概知道答案是什么。

But what's your favorite day on the calendar?

但日历上你最喜欢的一天是哪一天？

Andrew Huberman: Favorite day on the calendar.

Andrew Huberman：日历上最喜欢的一天。

I love New Year's Day.

我喜欢元旦。

Dr. Brian Keating: New Year's Day, exactly.

Brian Keating 博士：确实是元旦。

What is that?

那是什么？

It's a beginning.

这是一个开始。

It's a new year.

新的一年到了。

Some people say their birthday, their kid's birthday, if they're smart, their anniversary.

有些人说他们的生日，他们孩子的生日，如果他们聪明的话，他们的周年纪念日。

Right.

正确的。

You don't want to get too out of control with the missus.

你不想对你的太太太过失控。

What are those?

那些是什么？

Those are beginnings.

这些都是开始。

What's the only event that no entity could even bear witness to the origin of the universe?

唯一没有实体能够见证宇宙起源的事件是什么？

I think that speaks to something primal in human beings that are curious, at least.

我认为这至少说明了人类好奇心的本质。

We want to uncover the secrets of what existed, what came before us, and we don't have any way of seeing that currently.

我们想要揭开存在的事物、发生在我们之前的事物的秘密，但目前我们没有任何方法可以看到这一点。

So we have to use the fossils that have made their way throughout all of cosmic time to understand what that was like at the very beginning of time, and perhaps maybe about the universe as it existed before time itself began.

因此，我们必须利用贯穿整个宇宙时间的化石来了解时间之初的情况，也许还可以了解宇宙在时间本身开始之前就存在的情况。

So to me, it's incredibly fascinating.

所以对我来说，这是非常令人着迷的。

It encompasses all of science.

它涵盖了所有科学。

In some sense, it even can include life on other planets, consciousness, the formation of the brain.

从某种意义上说，它甚至可以包括其他星球上的生命、意识、大脑的形成。

And to me, I'm always interested in the biggest questions, and the biggest topics that evoke curiosity in me is how did it all get here?

对我来说，我总是对最大的问题感兴趣，而引起我好奇心的最大话题是这一切是如何发生的？

And so that's what cosmology allows us to do.

这就是宇宙学允许我们做的事情。

Apply the strict, exacting laws of physics to a specific domain which is the origin of everything in the universe.

将严格、精确的物理定律应用于特定领域，即宇宙中一切事物的起源。

That's what makes it so fascinating.

这就是它如此迷人的原因。

Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, LMNT.

Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下，并向我们的赞助商之一 LMNT 表示感谢。

LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need, but nothing you don't.

LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您所需的一切，但没有您不需要的。

That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium and potassium all in the correct ratios, but no sugar.

这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的比例都正确，但没有糖。

Proper hydration is critical for optimal brain and body function.

适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体的最佳功能至关重要。

Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish cognitive and physical performance.

即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低认知和身体表现。

It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.

获得充足的电解质也很重要。

The electrolytes sodium, magnesium and potassium are vital for the functioning of all the cells in your body, especially your neurons, your nerve cells.

电解质钠、镁和钾对于体内所有细胞的功能至关重要，尤其是神经元、神经细胞。

Drinking LMNT dissolved in water makes it extremely easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.

饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT 可以非常轻松地确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。

To make sure that I'm getting proper amounts of hydration and electrolytes, I dissolve one packet of LMNT in about 16-32 oz of water when I wake up in the morning.

为了确保我获得适量的水分和电解质，我在早上醒来时将一包 LMNT 溶解在大约 16-32 盎司的水中。

And I drink that basically first thing in the morning.

我基本上早上第一件事就是喝它。

I also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and therefore losing a lot of water and electrolytes.

我还会在进行任何体育锻炼时饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT，尤其是在炎热的天气里，因为我会大量出汗，从而失去大量的水和电解质。

They have a bunch of different great-tasting flavors of LMNT.

他们有多种不同口味的 LMNT。

They have watermelon, citrus, etc. Frankly, I love them all.

他们有西瓜、柑橘等，坦白说，我都喜欢。

And now that we're in the winter months in the Northern Hemisphere, LMNT has their chocolate medley flavors back in stock.

现在正值北半球的冬季，LMNT 的巧克力混合口味又重新有货了。

I really like the chocolate flavors, especially the chocolate mint when it's heated up.

我真的很喜欢巧克力的味道，尤其是加热后的巧克力薄荷味。

So you put it in hot water and that's a great way to replenish electrolytes and hydrate, especially when it's cold and dry outside when hydration is especially critical.

因此，您将其放入热水中，这是补充电解质和水分的好方法，尤其是当室外寒冷干燥时，水分补充尤为重要。

If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with the purchase of any LMNT drink mix.

如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman，购买任何 LMNT 混合饮料即可领取免费 LMNT 样品包。

Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.

再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。

Today's episode is also brought to us by BetterHelp.

今天的节目也是由 BetterHelp 为我们带来的。

BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist, carried out entirely online.

BetterHelp 提供由持照治疗师提供的专业治疗，完全在线进行。

I've been doing weekly therapy for well over 30 years.

三十多年来我每周进行一次治疗。

Initially, I didn't have a choice.

最初，我别无选择。

It was a condition of being allowed to stay in school.

这是被允许留在学校的一个条件。

But pretty soon I realized that therapy is an extremely important component to overall health.

但很快我就意识到治疗对于整体健康来说是极其重要的组成部分。

In fact, I consider doing regular therapy just as important as getting regular exercise, including cardiovascular exercise and resistance training, which, of course, I also do every week.

事实上，我认为定期治疗与定期锻炼一样重要，包括心血管锻炼和阻力训练，当然，我每周也会进行这些锻炼。

There are essentially three things that great therapy provides.

伟大的治疗本质上可以提供三件事。

First of all, it provides a good rapport with somebody that you can trust and talk to about all issues that you're concerned about.

首先，它与您可以信任的人建立了良好的融洽关系，并可以与您谈论您关心的所有问题。

Second of all, it can provide support in the form of emotional support or directed guidance.

其次，它可以以情感支持或定向指导的形式提供支持。

And third, expert therapy can provide useful insights.

第三，专家治疗可以提供有用的见解。

With BetterHelp, they make it very easy to find an expert therapist with whom you resonate with and can provide those benefits that come through effective therapy.

通过 BetterHelp，他们可以很容易地找到与您产生共鸣的专家治疗师，并可以通过有效的治疗提供这些好处。

Also, because BetterHelp allows therapy to be done entirely online, it's very time efficient.

此外，由于 BetterHelp 允许治疗完全在线完成，因此非常省时。

It's easy to fit into a busy schedule.

很容易适应繁忙的日程。

There's no commuting to a therapist's office or sitting in a waiting room or anything like that.

无需通勤到治疗师办公室或坐在候诊室或类似的地方。

You simply go online and hold your appointment.

您只需上网并预约即可。

If you would like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month.

如果您想尝试 BetterHelp，请访问 betterhelp.com/huberman，第一个月可享受 10% 的折扣。

Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman.

再说一次，这是 betterhelp.com/huberman。

Before we get to the origins of the universe and the organization of the planets relative to the sun, and their spins, etc., you said something that, at least to me, feels intuitively so true, and I think it's very likely to be true for everybody, which is that there's something about looking up into space, especially at night, when we see the stars, and hopefully see the stars — we'll talk about light pollution a little bit later — when we see the stars, that, yes, we know these things are far away.

在我们讨论宇宙的起源和行星相对于太阳的组织以及它们的自转等之前，你说了一些话，至少对我来说，直觉上感觉如此真实，而且我认为这很可能对每个人来说都是正确的，那就是仰望太空，特别是在晚上，当我们看到星星时，并希望看到星星——我们稍后会谈论光污染——当我们看到星星时，是的，我们知道这些东西很远离开。

Yes, we know that they occupy a certain position in space.

是的，我们知道它们在太空中占据一定的位置。

They have a diameter, etc. We might not know what that is just by looking at them.

它们有直径等。仅仅通过观察我们可能不知道那是什么。

You probably do.

你可能会。

But they also change our perception of time.

但它们也改变了我们对时间的看法。

And if I were to say one thing about the human brain especially, is that, sure, it's got all these autonomic functions.

如果我特别要说关于人类大脑的一件事，那就是，它当然具有所有这些自主功能。

It regulates heart rate, digestion, etc. Sleep, wake cycles.

它调节心率、消化等。睡眠、觉醒周期。

It can remember, it can think.

它可以记忆，它可以思考。

It can have states like rage or anger or happiness or delight.

它可以有愤怒、愤怒、快乐或喜悦等状态。

But what's remarkable about the human brain is that it can think into the past, can be "present," and it can project into the future.

但人类大脑的非凡之处在于，它可以思考过去，可以“现在”，也可以预测未来。

And I'm sure other animals can do that.

我相信其他动物也能做到这一点。

But we do this exquisitely well.

但我们在这方面做得非常好。

And we make plans on the basis of this ability to contract or expand our notion of time.

我们根据这种收缩或扩展时间观念的能力来制定计划。

As a nonbiologist, but somebody who I think appreciates and understands biology, why do you think it is that when we look up into the sky, even though most people might not realize that those stars probably aren't there and occupying the position that we think they are, some of them probably are, some of them aren't.

作为一名非生物学家，但我认为是欣赏和理解生物学的人，你认为为什么当我们仰望天空时，尽管大多数人可能没有意识到那些星星可能不在那里，并且占据着我们认为它们所在的位置，但有些可能存在，有些则不存在。

They existed a long time ago.

它们很久以前就存在了。

But without knowing that, why do you think that looking up at the stars gives us the sense of an expansion of time as opposed to just the expansion of space?

但在不知道这一点的情况下，为什么你会认为仰望星空会给我们带来时间膨胀的感觉，而不仅仅是空间的膨胀？

Dr. Brian Keating: Well, first of all, we have to take ourselves back, you know, to deep prehistory.

布莱恩·基廷博士：嗯，首先，我们必须回到史前时期。

We know that ancients were looking at the constellations because they were seemingly either in control of or correlated with, or perhaps causative of the seasons.

我们知道，古人观察星座是因为它们似乎控制着季节，或者与季节相关，或者可能是季节的原因。

And that was of divine importance, supreme importance for them, right?

这对他们来说具有神圣的重要性，至高无上的重要性，对吗？

Their whole existence in early agrarian societies, hunting societies, gathering societies.

他们整个存在于早期农业社会、狩猎社会、采集社会中。

So they had to know about time.

所以他们必须知道时间。

So time, the essence of time, and that on a large scale, for seasons, for holidays, for festivals, for propitiation of deities and so forth, they had to keep track of it.

因此，时间，时间的本质，以及在更大范围内，对于季节、假期、节日、祭祀神明等等，他们必须记录它。

And that's why in the caves in Lascaux that date back to 40,000 BCE, they depict constellations: Orion the hunter, Taurus the bull, all these different constellations, they depict them there.

这就是为什么在公元前 40,000 年的拉斯科洞穴中，他们描绘了星座：猎户座猎户座、公牛金牛座，所有这些不同的星座，他们都在那里描绘。

Now, partially that was because Netflix didn't exist back then.

现在，部分原因是Netflix当时还不存在。

There was no TikTok and so there wasn't much to do at night.

没有 TikTok，所以晚上没什么可做的。

And in fact, the more you're out at night, you probably increased your opportunity to be consumed by some predator.

事实上，你晚上外出的次数越多，被掠食者吃掉的机会就可能越大。

So you were more focused on being stationary, observing.

所以你更专注于静止、观察。

And as I said, we can do astronomy, uniquely so amongst all the sciences, with just the equipment we're born with, you know, measurements with our eyes with respect to landmarks, to calculate patterns.

正如我所说，我们可以做天文学，在所有科学中都是独一无二的，只需要我们与生俱来的设备，你知道，用我们的眼睛测量地标，计算模式。

And humans are exceptionally good at recognizing patterns, sometimes too good.

人类非常擅长识别模式，有时甚至太好了。

Andrew Huberman: So for instance, knowing that a certain swath of stars is present at one time of year and not another relative to, say, the contour of a mountain ridge.

安德鲁·休伯曼：例如，知道一年中的某个时间存在一定的恒星带，而不是相对于山脊轮廓的其他恒星。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yes.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

And the repetition of it and passed down through generations.

并且如此重复并代代相传。

Before there was written language, there was pictography, there were these cave paintings and so forth; there was oral language, and that was it for, you know, written language is only 10,000 years old or something like that.

在有书面语言之前，就有象形文字，有这些洞穴壁画等等；有口头语言，仅此而已，因为书面语言只有一万年的历史或类似的东西。

So to store information, that meant it was a continuity between generations.

因此，要存储信息，这意味着它是代际之间的连续性。

My great, great, great, great grandfathers, elders, whatever, taught me that when the moon is in this constellation, the sun is in this constellation, we should plant or we should harvest another in other times.

我的曾曾祖父、长辈们，不管怎样，都教导我，当月亮在这个星座时，太阳在这个星座时，我们应该在其他时间播种或收获另一个。

And so it was and we still do use the, you know, the rotation of the Earth, you know, hasn't changed that much since this 40,000-year period.

事实就是如此，我们仍然使用地球的自转，自这 4 万年以来，地球的自转并没有发生太大变化。

I mean the axis in which it rotates, that, that's a different story.

我的意思是它旋转的轴，那是一个不同的故事。

But the actual spin rate, the angular momentum of the Earth has not appreciably changed that much.

但地球的实际自转速度、角动量并没有明显变化。

And so the positions of these objects were of such importance that the ancients would use them for all these purposes.

因此，这些物体的位置非常重要，以至于古人将它们用于所有这些目的。

But there were so few things that changed position that they actually had names for them.

但改变位置的东西太少了，以至于它们实际上都有自己的名字。

They're called planets.

它们被称为行星。

So "planet" in Greek, it's like the word "plane," like airplane, it means something that moves or wanders.

所以希腊语中的“行星”，就像“飞机”这个词，就像飞机一样，它意味着移动或徘徊的东西。

So when you name something, it means it's pretty different from the other things which are not associated with that characteristic.

因此，当您命名某事物时，这意味着它与与该特征无关的其他事物有很大不同。

So the planets, there were only five that they could see at that time up to Saturn, and they actually would associate those not only with astronomical events, but events down on Earth, that's what connected to the Earth.

所以当时他们能看到的行星只有五颗，直到土星，他们实际上不仅将这些行星与天文事件联系起来，而且还与地球上的事件联系起来，这就是与地球联系在一起的。

So we have legacy of that in our calendar today.

因此，我们今天的日历中保留了这一点。

So Sunday, named after the Sun; Monday, Moon; Tuesday, and you go to the Latin languages, I think it's Mercury Day, which is Mercury day, Venturedi, Venus day.

所以Sunday，以太阳命名；周一，月亮；星期二，你去学拉丁语，我想今天是水星日，也就是水星日、Venturedi、金星日。

So if you go to the Romance languages and then the only one that's not a Latin name is of course for Thor, the god Thor, Thursday, and then comes back to Saturn day, Saturday.

所以，如果你去罗曼语系，那么唯一一个不是拉丁语的名字当然是托尔（Thor），托尔神，星期四，然后回到土星日，星期六。

So they were all used as a clock.

所以它们都被用作时钟。

And people don't really grasp this.

人们并没有真正理解这一点。

I mean, we have an Apple Watch, we have whatever.

我的意思是，我们有 Apple Watch，我们什么都有。

We didn't have a clock that was functional that would work on all different time zones in all different conditions on the pitching deck of a ship till the 1700s, basically, it was a huge problem.

直到 1700 年代，我们还没有在船的倾斜甲板上拥有一个可以在所有不同时区、所有不同条件下工作的实用时钟，基本上，这是一个巨大的问题。

And so measuring time became crucial for commerce, for human culture and civilization to arise, for education, and obviously for planting, harvesting and so forth.

因此，测量时间对于商业、人类文化和文明的兴起、教育，显然对于种植、收获等都至关重要。

So there was an obvious connection between the two.

所以两者之间存在着明显的联系。

They believed actually that they were causative, that actually the position of the planet Jupiter determined something on the day of your birth.

他们实际上相信他们是因果关系，实际上木星的位置决定了你出生那天的某些事情。

And the sun's relative position with respect to it determined something about your future and your, and your prospects in life and so forth.

太阳相对于它的相对位置决定了你的未来和你的生活前景等等。

So when I'm not confused for a cosmetologist because of my lovely hair and makeup, I'm usually asked, you know, oh, you're an astronomer, I'm a Virgo, you know, so what's going to happen to me?

因此，当我没有因为我可爱的头发和化妆而被误认为是美容师时，我通常会被问到，你知道，哦，你是一名天文学家，我是处女座，你知道，那么我会发生什么？

I'm like, I used to be, okay, that's an astrologer, I'm not an astrologer.

我想，我曾经是，好吧，那是一个占星家，我不是一个占星家。

But now I just, I kind of lean into it.

但现在我只是，我有点倾向于它。

I'm like, ooh, that you're going to get a letter from the IRS next week, and that lump on your ass -- Andrew Huberman: You mean, you mean you're, you're playing games with them?

我想，哦，下周你会收到美国国税局的一封信，你的屁股上的肿块 - 安德鲁·休伯曼：你的意思是，你的意思是你在和他们玩游戏？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: You don't believe in astrology?

安德鲁·休伯曼：你不相信占星术？

Dr. Brian Keating: There's no evidence for astrology.

布莱恩·基廷博士：没有占星学的证据。

In fact, there's many, many random-controlled trials, double-bond studies that show not only is it, it's almost counter to the evidence, they say that a monkey can throw a dart at a stock chart and do better than most hedge fund managers or something like that.

事实上，有很多很多随机对照试验、双键研究表明，不仅如此，而且几乎与证据相反，他们说猴子可以向股票图表扔飞镖，并且比大多数对冲基金经理或类似的东西做得更好。

Actually, astrologers are even worse than, I don't even know, a protozoa could throw a dart.

事实上，占星家比我什至不知道原生动物能扔飞镖还要糟糕。

It's almost anticorrelated with what reality is.

它几乎与现实是反相关的。

So no, there's certainly no validity to that.

所以不，这当然没有有效性。

And I had a provocative tweet, whatever, post, recently and it was about that.

我最近发了一条挑衅性的推文，无论如何，帖子都是关于这个的。

There's actually, we believe there are 12 zodiac signs, and that dates back to the Persians and the Babylonians and how they divided them up.

事实上，我们相信有 12 个星座，这可以追溯到波斯人和巴比伦人以及他们如何划分它们。

And it almost divides.

它几乎分裂了。

They were fascinated with the number 60, so that was the base of their number system.

他们对数字 60 很着迷，所以这是他们数字系统的基础。

Our number system is 10 because we have 10 fingers; for some reason they loved base 60, I don't know why.

我们的数字系统是 10，因为我们有 10 个手指；出于某种原因，他们喜欢 Base 60，我不知道为什么。

And so they love things that divided evenly into it.

所以他们喜欢平均分配的东西。

Ten does.

十个。

But anyway, you know, hashtag fail for the Babylonians, but they divided it up into 12 zodiac signs, so we still use those.

但无论如何，你知道，主题标签对于巴比伦人来说是失败的，但他们将其分为 12 个星座，所以我们仍然使用它们。

There's a problem though, the zodiac that you're...

但有一个问题，你是...

do you know what this is?

你知道这是什么吗？

Do you know what determines your zodiac sign?

你知道是什么决定了你的星座吗？

Andrew Huberman: No.

安德鲁·休伯曼：不。

Dr. Brian Keating: Okay, so it's determined by the position of the sun.

Brian Keating 博士：好的，这是由太阳的位置决定的。

What constellation was the sun in on the day you were born?

你出生那天的太阳是什么星座？

September 26th?

9月26日？

So that means that the sun was in the constellation Virgo.

这意味着太阳位于处女座。

Oh no, you were a Libra.

哦不，你是天秤座。

Andrew Huberman: Libra.

安德鲁·休伯曼：天秤座。

Dr. Brian Keating: Libra.

布莱恩·基廷博士：天秤座。

Okay, so you do know what you are, but you don't know why you are.

好吧，所以你确实知道你是什么，但你不知道你为什么这样。

So Libra means, it's a constellation.

所以天秤座的意思是，它是一个星座。

There's 88 constellations that are accepted by astronomers and one of them is Libra.

天文学家认可的星座有88个，天秤座就是其中之一。

And the path that the sun and the moon and all the planets travel in is called the zodiac.

太阳、月亮和所有行星运行的路径称为黄道带。

It's confined to a plane because the same protosolar system disk from which we formed out of all the planets came out of a nebular cloud, a cloud of gas, dust, rocks and so forth that came from a preexisting star that exploded, creating what's called a supernova.

它被限制在一个平面上，因为我们形成所有行星的同一个原太阳系盘来自于星云云，气体、尘埃、岩石等的云，来自一颗先前存在的恒星爆炸，产生了所谓的超新星。

The supernova provided the materials to make not only the Earth, but the entire solar system, including the Sun.

超新星不仅提供了构成地球的材料，还提供了构成整个太阳系（包括太阳）的材料。

That happened about 5 billion years ago.

那发生在大约50亿年前。

And 4 billion years ago the Earth formed out of that cloud that the spin of that disk --

40亿年前，地球是由那个圆盘旋转的云形成的——

All things have a spin associated with them.

所有事物都有与之相关的旋转。

Like a figure skater.

就像花样滑冰运动员一样。

You know, she's spinning around on her axis or whatever.

你知道，她正在绕轴旋转或者其他什么。

She can have her arms out, brings them in, she spins faster.

她可以伸出手臂，也可以收回手臂，她旋转得更快。

That's called conservation of angular momentum.

这就是所谓的角动量守恒。

Spin is a type of angular momentum.

自旋是角动量的一种。

The whole disk is spinning in a plane.

整个圆盘在平面上旋转。

It's like this desk, this table that we're sitting at.

就像我们坐的这张桌子。

If you're listening, imagine a flat table.

如果你在听，想象一张平坦的桌子。

It's spinning.

它在旋转。

A circular disc is spinning with a certain direction.

圆盘按一定方向旋转。

All the objects are moving in that same direction.

所有物体都朝同一个方向移动。

Due to conservation of this term called angular momentum, the sun moves in that, apparently moves in that position.

由于角动量这个术语的守恒，太阳在那个位置移动，显然在那个位置移动。

Obviously we're rotating around the sun, but it looks like the Sun's coming around us.

显然我们正在绕着太阳旋转，但看起来太阳正在绕着我们转。

The moon is Jupiter.

月亮是木星。

So on the day you were born, there's a constellation behind the sun.

所以在你出生的那天，太阳后面有一个星座。

From our perspective, that was Libra on September 26, and that was the day that you were born.

从我们的角度来看，那是9月26日天秤座，那是你出生的日子。

That determines the fact that you're a Libra.

这就决定了你是天秤座。

But there's a problem.

但有一个问题。

In December, where we are now, the sun is actually in a different constellation, the one that doesn't exist according to the zodiac, that was created something like 5,000 years ago, it's called Ophiuchus.

12 月，也就是我们现在所处的位置，太阳实际上位于一个不同的星座，这个星座在黄道十二宫中并不存在，大约是在 5000 年前创建的，它被称为蛇夫座。

So there's a certain segment of people born in a 17-day stretch in December, late November to early December, that are actually Ophiuchyns, or Ophiuchus or whatever.

因此，有一部分人出生在 12 月（即 11 月底到 12 月初）的 17 天里，他们实际上是蛇夫座，或蛇夫座或其他什么。

So that should obliterate astrology as any semblance of a science, because they didn't even know this constellation existed.

因此，这应该会抹杀占星学作为一门科学的任何外表，因为他们甚至不知道这个星座的存在。

And yet something like 12% of all people share that constellation.

然而大约 12% 的人也有同样的星座。

So it's just complete nonsense.

所以这完全是无稽之谈。

There's no validity to it.

它没有任何有效性。

Twins that are born on the same day have radically different histories, past, futures, and there's no predictive power to it.

同一天出生的双胞胎有着完全不同的历史、过去、未来，而且没有预测能力。

And that's what science is about, right?

这就是科学的意义，对吗？

We want to make a hypothesis, test it, iterate on it, and have confirmation of it.

我们想要做出一个假设，测试它，迭代它，并确认它。

And there's in fact, for astrology, in fact, if you'll permit me, a kind of silly story.

事实上，对于占星学来说，如果你允许我的话，事实上有一个愚蠢的故事。

When I was dating my wife, who had become my wife in the beginning, we, she, you know, kind of thought, it's fun, maybe we'll go see, you know, you know, someone who can tell our fortunes, that we belong together.

当我和我的妻子约会时，她一开始就成为了我的妻子，我们，她，你知道，有点想，这很有趣，也许我们会去看看，你知道，你知道，一个可以算命的人，我们属于在一起。

So we went to an astrologer and the astrologer asked me a bunch of questions, you know, when were you born, obviously?

所以我们去找了一位占星师，占星师问了我很多问题，你知道，你是什么时候出生的，显然？

And, oh no, she asked me, what's your sign?

哦，不，她问我，你的星座是什么？

So I said, I'm a Gemini.

所以我说，我是双子座。

And she said, okay, cool.

她说，好吧，酷。

And then she told me a bunch of things and at the end I said, I just want to double check.

然后她告诉了我很多事情，最后我说，我只是想再确认一下。

And I was playing, I'm kind of a, you know, a little bit of a jerk sometimes.

我在比赛中，你知道，有时我有点混蛋。

So I said I just want to confirm Gemini is born in September.

所以我说我只是想确认双子座是九月出生的。

I'm born September 9th.

我是9月9号出生的。

Oh no, no, that's a Virgo.

哦不不，那是处女座。

But the same things are going to happen to you anyway, like it didn't change her outcome.

但同样的事情无论如何都会发生在你身上，就像这并没有改变她的结果一样。

And so in the language of science, philosophy of science, Karl Popper, others, it's unfalsifiable and you cannot be proven right.

因此，用科学、科学哲学、卡尔·波普尔等人的语言来说，它是不可证伪的，你无法被证明是对的。

It's so flexible, you know, you're going to find challenges, the stock market is going to fluctuate, political turmoil will reign during your...

它是如此灵活，你知道，你会遇到挑战，股市会波动，政治动荡会在你的...

they're so flexible it can accommodate any story.

它们非常灵活，可以容纳任何故事。

And that's a hallmark of nonscience or sometimes antiscientific thinking.

这是非科学或有时是反科学思维的标志。

Andrew Huberman: One thing that really strikes me is the fact that, at least just the way you describe it, the first clock, the first timekeeping approach or mechanism was to evaluate the position of things in the sky relative to celestial landmarks.

安德鲁·休伯曼：真正让我印象深刻的一件事是，至少按照你描述的方式，第一个时钟、第一个计时方法或机制是评估天空中物体相对于天体地标的位置。

So irrespective of when people are born in astrology, I could imagine a tribe of people, a group of people who have charts because they've painted them onto some surface, doesn't matter what the surface is, that at some portion of the year the stars are above this ridge.

因此，无论人们在占星学中出生的时间如何，我都可以想象一个部落的人，一群拥有图表的人，因为他们将它们画在某个表面上，无论表面是什么，在一年中的某些时候，星星都在这条山脊上方。

There are three bright stars above the ridge just to the left of the front of the village, so to speak.

可以这么说，村庄前面左侧的山脊上方有三颗明亮的星星。

Like, this is not an unreasonable thing to imagine.

想想看，这并不是一件没有道理的事情。

And that information is passed down in the form of, when those three stars are about to disappear behind that ridge, days are getting shorter.

这些信息以这样的形式传递下去：当那三颗星星即将消失在山脊后面时，白天就会变得越来越短。

Whereas when those three stars are reemerging again elsewhere in the sky.

而当那三颗星星再次出现在天空的其他地方时。

Yes, days are getting longer.

是的，日子越来越长了。

Forgive me, this will be a little bit of a long question.

请原谅我，这将是一个有点长的问题。

Sometimes the listeners get upset with me, but I think it'll frame it within the biology in a way that will be meaningful for us and for everyone.

有时听众会对我感到不安，但我认为它将以一种对我们和每个人都有意义的方式将其纳入生物学范围。

Other animals besides humans have this thing, the pineal gland that secretes melatonin.

除了人类以外其他动物都有这个东西，就是分泌褪黑素的松果体。

The duration of melatonin release is directly related to how much light there is.

褪黑激素释放的持续时间与光线的多少直接相关。

In other words, light suppresses melatonin.

换句话说，光会抑制褪黑激素。

Therefore, in short days, aka long nights, you get a lot more melatonin released.

因此，在短暂的白天，也就是漫长的夜晚，你会释放更多的褪黑激素。

In long days and short nights, you get less melatonin.

在漫长的白天和短暂的夜晚，您获得的褪黑激素会减少。

So this is the intrinsic clock-keeping mechanism of all mammalian species and reptiles.

所以这是所有哺乳动物和爬行动物固有的时钟保持机制。

Most people don't realize this, but reptiles often have either a thin skull, birds have a very thin skull so that light can actually pass through the skull to the pineal.

大多数人没有意识到这一点，但爬行动物通常有一个薄的头骨，鸟类有一个非常薄的头骨，因此光线实际上可以穿过头骨到达松果体。

Some reptiles actually have pits in the top of their heads so that light can pass directly in to the pineal.

有些爬行动物的头顶实际上有凹坑，这样光线就可以直接进入松果体。

These are animals that, mind you, also have eyes for perceiving things.

请注意，这些动物也有感知事物的眼睛。

But this is the primordial, biologically primordial-timekeeping device.

但这是原始的、生物学上原始的计时装置。

And you can imagine why this would be really important, and then I'll get back to why.

你可以想象为什么这非常重要，然后我会回到原因。

I think that because humans have a pineal that's embedded deep in the brain, light cannot, despite what some people think out there, I'm not gonna name names, but light cannot get through the skull to the pineal, nor is putting a light in your ear going to get there or even in the roof of your mouth.

我认为，因为人类有一个深深嵌入大脑的松果体，所以光不能，尽管有些人怎么想，我不会指名道姓，但光不能穿过头骨到达松果体，在你的耳朵里放一个光，甚至在你的上颚也不会到达那里。

Very unlikely.

不太可能。

Maybe some distant stimulation of the neurons in your hypothalamus with long wavelength light.

也许用长波长光对下丘脑的神经元进行一些远程刺激。

But in any case, the pineal of humans is embedded deep in the skull.

但无论如何，人类的松果体是深深嵌入头骨中的。

And so that information about how much light is in the environment has to be passed through the eyes, through a circuitous circuit, through a circuitous path to the pineal.

因此，关于环境中有多少光的信息必须通过眼睛，通过迂回的回路，通过迂回的路径到达松果体。

But here's the thing, here's the conundrum.

但这就是事情，这就是难题。

An animal or human born into an eight-hour day when days are getting longer, has a very different future as an infant.

出生在每天工作八小时的动物或人类，当白天变得越来越长时，其婴儿期的未来将截然不同。

As an infant or baby that's born into an eight-hour day when days are getting shorter.

作为一个出生在一天八小时的婴儿或婴儿，白天的时间越来越短。

Especially if you live closer to the poles, further from the equator.

特别是如果你住的地方离两极更近，离赤道更远。

So think about this.

所以想想这个。

You're a pregnant woman, or you're the husband of that pregnant woman, and you have a baby coming.

您是一名孕妇，或者您是该孕妇的丈夫，并且您即将生下孩子。

And you need to know that days are getting longer or shorter and what that means for resources.

您需要知道白天越来越长或越来越短，以及这对资源意味着什么。

Because the probability of the survival of that child and even the mother during and immediately after childbirth was strongly dictated by what resources were available, the strength of the immune system, etc. Animals solve this by light going directly into the pineal.

因为孩子甚至母亲在分娩期间和分娩后的存活概率很大程度上取决于可用资源、免疫系统的强度等。动物通过直接进入松果体的光来解决这个问题。

I'm not one of those animals, so I don't know if they're conscious of this.

我不是那些动物之一，所以我不知道他们是否意识到这一点。

Humans needed to solve this some other way.

人类需要以其他方式解决这个问题。

They needed to know whether or not days were getting longer or shorter.

他们需要知道白天是变长还是变短。

And so the question I have is, is the movement of the stars or planets detectable enough with these telescopes that we have in the front of our skull?

所以我的问题是，我们头骨前面的望远镜是否足以探测到恒星或行星的运动？

Is it perceivable enough that one could know whether or not days were getting longer or shorter simply by looking up at the sky at night, or are the shifts imperceptible and therefore you would need to create these charts?

是否足够容易感知，人们只需在夜间抬头仰望天空就可以知道白天是否变长或变短，或者这些变化是否难以察觉，因此您需要创建这些图表？

And now I think it's kind of obvious while I'm asking this question, because to me this is the reason to chart time.

现在我认为当我问这个问题时这是显而易见的，因为对我来说这就是绘制时间图表的原因。

And this is the reason it occurs to me why looking up at the sky at night is meaningful for tracking time.

这就是我想到为什么晚上抬头仰望天空对于追踪时间有意义的原因。

Dr. Brian Keating: Absolutely.

布莱恩·基廷博士：当然。

And not only correlated with that, something even more perhaps basic is, you know, temperature.

不仅与此相关，更基本的东西也许是温度。

In the hemisphere that you're born in, you would expect that all, you know, I'm born, as I said, September 9th.

在你出生的半球，你会期望所有，你知道，我出生，正如我所说，9 月 9 日。

Turns out that's the statistically most common birth date of humans on Earth.

事实证明，这是统计上地球上人类最常见的出生日期。

And why is that?

这是为什么呢？

Andrew Huberman: People are busy during the winter holiday.

Andrew Huberman：寒假期间人们很忙。

Dr. Brian Keating: Exactly.

布莱恩·基廷博士：确实如此。

Right.

正确的。

So there's a correlation.

所以存在相关性。

Right?

正确的？

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

They're at home and they're indoors.

他们在家，而且在室内。

They're at home and they're procreating and they're celebrating.

他们在家里，他们在生儿育女，他们在庆祝。

Dr. Brian Keating: Or another thing is what month you're born in.

Brian Keating 博士：或者另一件事是你出生的月份。

Well, you go back nine months.

好吧，你回到九个月前。

So actually, you know, capitalism's awesome, right?

所以实际上，你知道，资本主义很棒，对吧？

So it's so efficient.

所以它是如此高效。

So when you go to CVS, and I've known this, you know, several times, thank God, because my wife's been pregnant several times and we have several kids.

所以，当你去 CVS 时，我已经知道这一点，你知道，好几次，感谢上帝，因为我的妻子已经怀孕了好几次，我们有几个孩子。

And when you go to CVS, it's actually pretty interesting.

当你去 CVS 时，它实际上非常有趣。

She goes there to buy a pregnancy test.

她去那里买验孕棒。

Now she's the kind of neurotic person.

现在的她就是那种神经质的人。

She had to buy like five pregnancy tests for each kid.

她必须为每个孩子购买大约五份妊娠测试笔。

Okay.

好的。

I don't know why, but that's what she did.

我不知道为什么，但她就是这么做的。

So she's a--

所以她是一个——

Andrew Huberman: --She likes data.

安德鲁·休伯曼：——她喜欢数据。

Dr. Brian Keating: She's got the good--

布莱恩·基廷博士：她有优点——

Andrew Huberman: --How do you...

安德鲁·休伯曼：——你怎么...

okay, everybody, statistics.

好了，大家来统计一下。

How do you reduce variability?

如何减少变异性？

Increase sample size.

增加样本量。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yes, unless it's a systematic error.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，除非是系统性错误。

And that's what I want to talk to you about later.

这就是我稍后想和你们谈论的内容。

When it comes to the eye and other things.

当涉及到眼睛和其他事情时。

You go to CVS, you buy a pregnancy test and you know she's on their gold plan program, whatever.

你去CVS，买了妊娠测试笔，你就知道她在他们的黄金计划中，无论如何。

She got the gold card from CVS because she's gone so many times.

她从 CVS 得到了金卡，因为她已经去过很多次了。

But when you go there, they know you're getting a pregnancy test.

但当你去那里时，他们知道你正在接受妊娠测试。

So exactly nine months later, we start getting advertisements for Pampers and for diapers and for diaper creams and wipes and stuff.

整整九个月后，我们开始收到帮宝适、尿布、尿布霜、湿巾等产品的广告。

So they know this.

所以他们知道这一点。

They know this.

他们知道这一点。

Andrew Huberman: They're hedging even without knowing the results.

Andrew Huberman：即使不知道结果，他们也在进行对冲。

Dr. Brian Keating: Exactly.

布莱恩·基廷博士：确实如此。

What's the downside for them?

对他们来说有什么缺点？

Andrew Huberman: Well, if she buys five tests, they're probably assuming something very different than if she bought one test.

Andrew Huberman：嗯，如果她购买了五次测试，他们可能会做出与她购买一次测试非常不同的假设。

Dr. Brian Keating: Anyway, so the temperature.

Brian Keating 博士：无论如何，温度也是如此。

Right.

正确的。

So if you're gestating during summertime versus wintertime, that obviously will have some kind of an effect.

因此，如果您在夏季与冬季怀孕，这显然会产生某种影响。

I mean, you can tell me a lot more than that, but more than that.

我的意思是，你可以告诉我的不仅仅是这些，而且还不止这些。

You hinted at this, and I'm not going to make you do any math surrounding pregnancy, but God forbid, hey, I sympathize.

你暗示了这一点，我不会让你对怀孕做任何数学计算，但上帝禁止，嘿，我同情。

I put out the--

我把——

Andrew Huberman: --I was talking fast.

安德鲁·休伯曼：——我说得很快。

The irony of that one.

那个人的讽刺。

I'll just say, for the record.

我只是说一下，仅供记录。

I'm just blushing.

我只是脸红了。

The irony of that one is that we've published numerous times for my lab, cumulative probability.

具有讽刺意味的是，我们已经为我的实验室多次发表了累积概率。

And I teach this stuff, so it's oftentimes when you're going fast.

我教这些东西，所以很多时候你的速度很快。

But that one I totally deserved, you know, whatever shades of red I might turn.

但那是我完全应得的，你知道，无论我会变成什么样的红色。

Dr. Brian Keating: That's what a good scientist does.

Brian Keating 博士：这就是优秀科学家所做的事情。

But they actually think that the first astronomers were women.

但他们实际上认为第一批天文学家是女性。

Think about it.

想一想。

Because they noticed this correlation.

因为他们注意到了这种相关性。

What's their monthly cycle?

他们的每月周期是多少？

Their menstrual cycle is exactly 29 and a half days, which is actually the lunar cycle down to almost a minute.

她们的月经周期正好是29天半，这实际上是农历周期缩短到几乎一分钟。

It's insane, right, that they would have looked up and noticed this renewal and diminishing of the moon and that there's actually evidence now.

这太疯狂了，对吧，他们抬头就能注意到月亮的更新和缩小，而且现在确实有证据。

They weren't professional astronomers until, you know, actually the first professional female astronomer wasn't until like the 1700s in England, where she was recognized for using telescopes and so forth.

她们直到1700年代才成为职业天文学家，你知道，实际上第一位职业女性天文学家直到1700年代才出现在英国，在那里她因使用望远镜等而受到认可。

But no, they were very keen on that and they were probably dialed into that, and what that portended, as you alluded to, for the future of their child.

但不，他们对此非常热衷，而且他们可能是被拨入其中的，正如你所提到的，这预示着他们孩子的未来。

I mean, this is a huge biological investment.

我的意思是，这是一项巨大的生物投资。

Men don't have that.

男人没有这个。

So actually we are less symmetrical, you know this, than women, right?

所以实际上我们比女性更不对称，你知道的，对吗？

We have our testes or different lengths or whatever.

我们有睾丸或不同的长度或其他什么。

I guess normal, normal men at least.

我想很正常，至少是正常的男人。

But women are more symmetrical.

但女性更对称。

But they're actually.

但他们实际上是。

They have an extra timekeeping device that men, we can't relate to that--

他们有一个额外的计时装置，我们对此无法理解——

Andrew Huberman: --Their menstrual cycle.

安德鲁·休伯曼：——她们的月经周期。

Dr. Brian Keating: Their menstrual cycle, yeah.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，她们的月经周期。

Andrew Huberman: And some women are keenly aware of the ovulation event.

安德鲁·休伯曼：有些女性敏锐地意识到排卵事件。

They will describe it as a feeling as if it's breaking off and migrating within them.

他们会把它描述为一种感觉，就好像它在他们体内分裂和迁移。

And I have every reason to believe them.

我完全有理由相信他们。

Earlier you asked, and I know this will get some people's ears pricked up, whether or not when a child is born with respect to the seasonal cycle impacts that child.

早些时候你问过，我知道这会让一些人竖起耳朵，无论孩子出生的季节周期是否会影响那个孩子。

There are a lot of data around this.

与此相关的数据有很多。

It depends on the environment in which one lives.

这取决于一个人生活的环境。

So closer to the equator, it's a very different situation.

距离赤道越近，情况就截然不同。

The equal days all day long.

整天都是平等的日子。

There were some data, and I'd love to get an update on this so somebody knows.

有一些数据，我很想获得这方面的更新，以便有人知道。

They can put in the comments that, you know, schizophrenia was far more prevalent as you move away from the equator.

他们可以评论说，你知道，当你远离赤道时，精神分裂症会更加普遍。

And then there was a guy at Caltech, he has since passed, but had some interesting data about mothers who contracted influenza during a certain phase of the second trimester.

然后加州理工学院有一个人，他已经去世了，但有一些关于在妊娠中期的某个阶段感染流感的母亲的有趣数据。

Heightened probability for schizophrenic offspring.

后代患精神分裂症的可能性增加。

But big, big caveat here.

但这里有一个很大很大的警告。

None of it was causal, of course.

当然，这一切都不是因果关系。

And then there are all sorts of interesting things about, you know, placental effects.

还有关于胎盘效应的各种有趣的事情。

And so it's a multivariable thing.

所以这是一个多变量的事情。

And we know that because identical twins, even, that share the same chorionic sac--

我们知道，因为甚至是同卵双胞胎，共享相同的绒毛膜囊——

Dr. Brian Keating: --Right--

布莱恩·基廷博士：——对——

Andrew Huberman: --One can be schizophrenic and the other, not, although there is a higher concordance than if, say, they're in a dichorionic, two to two different sacs.

安德鲁·休伯曼：——一个可能患有精神分裂症，另一个则不然，尽管这比他们处于双绒毛膜、两到两个不同的囊中的一致性更高。

But time of birth relative to the seasons.

但出生时间与季节有关。

Sure, seasons correlating, of course, with abundance or lack of food abundance or lack of various infectious diseases, influenza in particular.

当然，季节当然与食物丰富或缺乏相关，食物丰富或缺乏各种传染病，尤其是流感。

These things are relevant.

这些事情是相关的。

Dr. Brian Keating: But we'd have to make a really big stretch to then include the effects of the planet Jupiter, which is the biggest planet and is most of the mass of our solar system outside of the sun, then it would be clear.

布赖恩·基廷博士：但是我们必须做一个非常大的延伸才能包括木星的影响，木星是最大的行星，也是太阳系以外太阳质量的大部分，然后就很清楚了。

And you could do this test with identical twins that are identical versus fraternal twins, twins that are raised with the same parent.

你可以用同卵双胞胎和异卵双胞胎（由同一父母抚养的双胞胎）进行这项测试。

Some are separated at birth, and they turn out very much more similarly when they're identical twins.

有些人在出生时就被分开了，当他们是同卵双胞胎时，他们的表现就更加相似。

So it shows that genetics play more of a role than we like to think, that genes are powerful.

因此，这表明遗传学的作用比我们想象的要大，基因的力量是强大的。

They are.

他们是。

Andrew Huberman: I realize this is a bit politically incorrect to say in certain venues, but genes are extremely powerful.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我意识到在某些场合这样说有点政治不正确，但基因非常强大。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, why wouldn't they be?

Brian Keating 博士：是的，为什么不呢？

Right.

正确的。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, absolutely.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，绝对如此。

I mean, nurture matters as well.

我的意思是，培养也很重要。

Genes are immensely powerful.

基因的力量是非常强大的。

Dr. Brian Keating: So.

布莱恩·基廷博士：所以。

And I think that gives us hope.

我认为这给了我们希望。

You know, people say, well, you know, we should not be so haughty, we should not be so arrogant.

你知道，人们说，好吧，你知道，我们不应该那么傲慢，我们不应该那么傲慢。

You know, we have, what, 50% of the same chromosomes as a fruit fly.

你知道，我们有 50% 的染色体与果蝇相同。

Who are you to be...

你是谁...

and I say, I'll do you one better.

我说，我会为你做得更好。

Like, I think some bonobos have 98% similarity.

比如，我认为有些倭黑猩猩有 98% 的相似度。

But that should give us more, you know, sort of like, treat ourselves and think of ourselves in a way that's more, you know, you know, more elevated, I would say, because we're not, that there's many species of chimpanzees and primates, and so there's only one human, you know, Homo sapiens.

但这应该给我们更多，你知道，有点像，以一种更加，你知道，你知道，更高的方式对待自己和思考自己，我想说，因为我们不是，黑猩猩和灵长类动物有很多种类，所以只有一种人类，你知道，智人。

You know, a lot of people don't know the word "Homo sapiens," which is our species and our genus.

你知道，很多人不知道“智人”这个词，它是我们的物种和属。

Sapiens doesn't mean, it doesn't mean knowledge, like science.

Sapiens 并不意味着，它并不意味着知识，比如科学。

Scientia means knowledge.

Scientia的意思是知识。

Sapience means wisdom.

Sapience的意思是智慧。

And I like to look at the etymology.

我喜欢看词源。

I'm fascinated by it.

我对它着迷。

But it kind of highlights what we should be doing and what is it that we are aware of.

但它强调了我们应该做什么以及我们意识到了什么。

And I'm curious, have you ever encountered, like, why are we called humans, like the wise hominid?

我很好奇，你有没有遇到过，比如，为什么我们被称为人类，就像智慧的原始人类一样？

It's because we're the only entity, organism, that knows it's going to die.

这是因为我们是唯一知道自己会死的实体、有机体。

Yes.

是的。

There's some elephants that you know before one dies and one will take care.

有些大象在死去之前你就认识了，并且会有一只大象来照顾它们。

It's not the same as, like, you knew you were going to die when you were a kid, very young.

这和你小时候就知道自己会死不一样，很小的时候。

And it's that awareness of death and the awareness of how special we are.

这就是对死亡的认识和对我们有多么特别的认识。

I think that's what invests life with a lot more meaning.

我认为这就是赋予生命更多意义的原因。

I don't want to get too philosophical.

我不想变得太哲学化。

Andrew Huberman: It's time perception.

Andrew Huberman：这是时间感知。

Dr. Brian Keating: That's exactly what I'm saying.

Brian Keating 博士：这正是我所说的。

Andrew Huberman: I mean, I had an expert on happiness sitting here.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，我有一位幸福专家坐在这里。

And then, Morgan Housel is an expert on the relationship between psychological happiness and money, sitting here.

然后，摩根·豪塞尔（Morgan Housel）坐在这里，他是研究心理幸福与金钱关系的专家。

And he described this cartoon, which inevitably makes me chuckle, of a guy and his dog sitting by a lake.

他描述了这幅漫画，这不可避免地让我咯咯笑，画的是一个人和他的狗坐在湖边。

And there's a bubble, you know, sort of bubbles coming out of the guy's head, and he's thinking about whatever, his stock portfolio and things back home, etc., and out of the dog's head is just a mirror image of him sitting with his owner.

你知道，有一个泡沫，有点泡沫从那家伙的脑袋里冒出来，他在想什么，他的股票投资组合和家里的事情等等，而从狗的脑袋里出来的只是他和主人坐在一起的镜像。

The dogs are very present, but what that also means is that they are not able to perceive their own existence within--

狗非常存在，但这也意味着它们无法感知自己的存在——

Dr. Brian Keating: Modeling of time.

Brian Keating 博士：时间建模。

As you said before, we can forecast.

正如您之前所说，我们可以预测。

That's how we don't have the strongest muscles, the sharpest claws, the biggest teeth, right?

这就是为什么我们没有最强壮的肌肉、最锋利的爪子、最大的牙齿，对吗？

What do we have?

我们有什么？

We have this prefrontal cortex that allows us to do what are called "Gedanken," or thought experiments.

我们的前额叶皮层使我们能够进行所谓的“Gedanken”或思想实验。

Einstein said to predict the future, to model the future, not really predict it.

爱因斯坦说预测未来，模拟未来，而不是真正预测它。

We can't do that, but we can model likely outcomes and we can simulate in our minds what those would be like.

我们无法做到这一点，但我们可以对可能的结果进行建模，并且可以在脑海中模拟这些结果会是什么样子。

And we're so dependent on that skill that we sometimes confuse correlation for causation.

我们如此依赖这种技能，以至于有时会混淆相关性和因果关系。

And as you know, everyone who confuses correlation with causation ends up dying.

如你所知，每个混淆相关性和因果关系的人最终都会死亡。

So it's very dangerous to do that.

所以这样做是非常危险的。

But the point is, the notion of what's called confirmation bias is prevalent in every human being, scientist or not.

但关键是，所谓的确认偏差的概念在每个人中都普遍存在，无论是否是科学家。

And in fact, as scientists, you and I, we have to guard against that more than anybody because nothing really feels better than, like, thinking of a hypothesis, modeling the future and then feeling like you're right.

事实上，作为科学家，你和我，我们必须比任何人都更加警惕这种情况，因为没有什么比思考一个假设、对未来进行建模然后感觉自己是对的更好的感觉了。

And then you get celebrated and feted.

然后你就会受到庆祝和款待。

Maybe you win a golden medallion with Alfred Nobel's image on it or whatever.

也许你会赢得一枚印有阿尔弗雷德·诺贝尔肖像的金质奖章或其他什么。

Those kinds of things are very powerful.

这些东西非常强大。

And those kinds of things are also very dangerous, which is why it appeals to so many more people to think that the celestial orbs play a role in our lives.

这类事情也非常危险，这就是为什么它吸引了更多的人认为天体在我们的生活中发挥着作用。

It's almost like we've reverted to a paganistic existence where we want to believe there's some force responsible for our fates, when maybe it's random.

这几乎就像我们回到了异教的存在，我们想要相信有某种力量对我们的命运负责，尽管它可能是随机的。

Andrew Huberman: I totally agree with you.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我完全同意你的观点。

I'll play devil's advocate for a moment.

我会暂时唱反调。

Not for astrology per se, but for instance, there are many species that use magnetoreception.

本身并不是占星学，但例如，有许多物种使用磁感受。

They can sense magnetic fields.

它们可以感应磁场。

I think turtles do this, Some migrating birds do this, some pigeons.

我认为海龟会这样做，一些候鸟会这样做，一些鸽子也会这样做。

There's even some evidence that within the, I believe this is still true, that within the eye of the fly, the fruit fly, that there are some magnetoreceptors.

甚至有一些证据表明，我相信这仍然是正确的，在果蝇的眼睛里，有一些磁感受器。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: So it turns out there are some humans that perform better than chance in a magnetoreception perceptual task.

安德鲁·休伯曼：事实证明，有些人在磁感受感知任务中表现得比偶然更好。

This is very surprising to me.

这让我非常惊讶。

It can be trained up somewhat, but I'm sure there are a number of people hearing this, that they themselves feel that they can sense magnetic fields.

它可以进行一些训练，但我确信有很多人听到这个，他们自己觉得他们可以感应磁场。

There is a capacity to do that greater than chance in some individuals.

对于某些人来说，做到这一点的能力比偶然性更大。

It's a very weak capacity.

这是一个非常弱的能力。

So I think humans love the idea that there is something, skills or qualities beyond our reflexive understanding, that we all harbor, this idea that we have superpowers, that we just need to tap into sixth sense.

所以我认为人类喜欢这样的想法，即我们都拥有超越我们反射性理解的某些东西、技能或品质，我们拥有超能力，我们只需要利用第六感。

Or this person has a stroke and suddenly is speaking conversational French.

或者这个人中风了，突然说法语。

And therefore, you know, neuroplasticity, you know, etc.

因此，你知道，神经可塑性，等等。

Dr. Brian Keating: Or what is it, proprioception, or our colleague, when you were at San Diego, Ramachandran.

Brian Keating 博士：或者是什么，本体感觉，或者我们的同事，当你在圣地亚哥的 Ramachandran 的时候。

Yeah, like, synesthesia.

是的，就像联觉。

Right?

正确的？

Andrew Huberman: Certainly synesthesia exists.

Andrew Huberman：联觉确实存在。

People who will hear a certain key on the piano and immediately evokes the perception of a particular color, not just red, but a particular shade of red in a very consistent way.

人们听到钢琴上的某个键并立即唤起对特定颜色的感知，不仅仅是红色，而是以非常一致的方式呈现特定的红色阴影。

Dr. Brian Keating: Now, if that was useful for something, maybe it is useful?

Brian Keating 博士：现在，如果这对某些事情有用，也许它有用吗？

Andrew Huberman: Unusual cross-modal plasticity is what we would call it.

Andrew Huberman：我们称之为不寻常的跨模式可塑性。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, but so could that not be, you know, made into an argument?

Brian Keating 博士：是的，但是，你知道，这难道不能成为争论吗？

Well, that means that there, that this is a general feature that we just don't know how to access.

嗯，这意味着这是一个我们不知道如何访问的通用功能。

But maybe, like, we could go to the gym and, you know, mental gym, or do something to enhance, like you said, I don't know, some people do that with, like, infrared, near-infrared wavelengths that they do some kind of training and they claim they can see certain things.

但也许，比如，我们可以去健身房，你知道，心理健身房，或者做一些事情来增强，就像你说的，我不知道，有些人用红外线、近红外波长来做到这一点，他们进行某种训练，他们声称他们可以看到某些东西。

The question is, how useful is it?

问题是，它有多大用处？

And then how predictive is it?

那么它的预测性如何呢？

And I don't think that we can make a case for the predictive elements of the position, as I said, of Mars and Mercury being in retrograde as it is now.

我不认为我们可以为火星和水星现在这样逆行的位置的预测元素提供理由。

But the thing that's shocking is that, look, there's a whole page in almost every newspaper except the execrable New York Times.

但令人震惊的是，你看，除了可恶的《纽约时报》之外，几乎每家报纸都有一整版。

No, I'm just kidding.

不，我只是开玩笑。

The New York Times.

纽约时报。

Andrew Huberman: They're still around.

Andrew Huberman：他们还存在。

Dr. Brian Keating: It's very interesting.

Brian Keating 博士：这非常有趣。

I'll tell you off the air about a recent encounter I've had with The New York Times, but most newspapers have more, 10, hundreds of times more ink written about astrology than astronomy.

我会在广播中告诉你我最近与《纽约时报》的一次邂逅，但大多数报纸上关于占星学的文章比天文学多十倍、数百倍。

I mean, it'll barely be in there.

我的意思是，它几乎不会在那里。

And why is that?

这是为什么呢？

It's a capitalistic society.

这是一个资本主义社会。

So people crave this notion that there's some explanation for the random-seeming events that occur in their lives.

因此，人们渴望这样一种观念，即生活中发生的看似随机的事件可以得到某种解释。

And that's an urge as ancient as, you know, human civilization itself.

这种冲动与人类文明本身一样古老。

Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.

Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。

AG1 is a vitamin-mineral-probiotic drink that also includes prebiotics and adaptogens.

AG1 是一种维生素-矿物质-益生菌饮料，还含有益生元和适应原。

AG1 is designed to cover all of your foundational nutritional needs and it tastes great.

AG1 旨在满足您所有的基本营养需求，而且味道极佳。

Now I've been drinking AG1 since 2012 and I started doing that at a time when my budget for supplements was really limited.

现在，我从 2012 年开始饮用 AG1，当时我的补充剂预算非常有限。

In fact, I only had enough money back then to purchase one supplement and I'm so glad that I made that supplement AG1.

事实上，当时我的钱只够购买一种补充剂，我很高兴我制作了这款补充剂 AG1。

The reason for that is even though I strive to eat most of my foods from whole foods and minimally processed foods, it's very difficult for me to get enough fruits, vegetables, vitamins and minerals, micronutrients and adaptogens from food alone.

原因是，尽管我努力吃天然食品和最低限度加工食品中的大部分食物，但我很难仅从食物中获取足够的水果、蔬菜、维生素和矿物质、微量营养素和适应原。

And I need to do that in order to ensure that I have enough energy throughout the day, I sleep well at night and keep my immune system strong.

我需要这样做，以确保我全天有足够的能量，晚上睡得好，并保持我的免疫系统强大。

But when I take AG1 daily, I find that all aspects of my health, my physical health, my mental health and my performance, both cognitive and physical, are better.

但当我每天服用 AG1 时，我发现我的健康各方面，我的身体健康、我的心理健康以及我的认知和身体表现都更好了。

I know that because I've had lapses when I didn't take AG1 and I certainly felt the difference.

我知道这一点，因为当我没有参加 AG1 时我曾犯过错误，而且我确实感受到了差异。

I also notice, and this makes perfect sense given the relationship between the gut microbiome and the brain, that when I regularly take AG1, which for me means a serving in the morning or midmorning and again later in the afternoon or evening, that I have more mental clarity and more mental energy.

我还注意到，考虑到肠道微生物组和大脑之间的关系，这是完全合理的，当我定期服用 AG1（对我来说意味着早上或上午服用一次，下午或晚上再次服用）时，我的思维更加清晰，精力更加充沛。

If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.

如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。

For this month only, January 2025, AG1 is giving away 10 free travel packs and a year's supply of vitamin D3K2.

仅在 2025 年 1 月这个月，AG1 将赠送 10 个免费旅行包和一年的维生素 D3K2。

Again, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim the 10 free travel packs and a year's supply of vitamin D3K2.

再次访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 领取 10 个免费旅行包和一年的维生素 D3K2。

It speaks to what I think is one of the core functions of the human brain, which, you know, umbrellas everything we're talking about, which the human brain is a prediction-making machine and it wants to make predictions on the basis of things that feel reliable.

它谈到了我认为人脑的核心功能之一，你知道，它涵盖了我们正在谈论的一切，人脑是一个预测机器，它希望根据感觉可靠的事物进行预测。

And the ability for us to go...

我们有能力去...

confirmation bias, the ability for us to link A and T as opposed to A, B, C, and work through things linearly and try and disprove our own hypotheses, is much stronger than any desire to work through things systematically.

确认偏差，即我们将 A 和 T 联系起来，而不是 A、B、C，并线性地解决问题并尝试反驳我们自己的假设的能力，比任何系统地解决问题的愿望要强得多。

Unless you're trained as a scientist.

除非你受过科学家训练。

Dr. Brian Keating: Exactly, yep.

Brian Keating 博士： 完全正确。

Andrew Huberman: And so it's no surprise to me that people want to understand themselves and understand others in a way that feels at least semireliable.

安德鲁·休伯曼：因此，人们希望以一种至少感觉半可靠的方式了解自己和他人，这对我来说并不奇怪。

And to do that in a way where they don't have to run a ton of experiments.

并且以一种不需要进行大量实验的方式来做到这一点。

And hence astrology.

因此，占星学也是如此。

I'd like to stay within this vein of thought, but you said something earlier that's been kind of, you know, nagging the back of my brain.

我想保持这种想法，但你之前说过的话有点让我心烦意乱。

You said, we have two refracting telescopes in the front of our skull.

你说，我们的头骨前面有两个折射望远镜。

I will often remind people that your retinas that line the back of your eyes like a pie crust are part of your brain, your central nervous system that was literally squeezed out of your skull during the first trimester through a whole genetic program.

我经常提醒人们，像馅饼皮一样排列在眼睛后面的视网膜是大脑的一部分，是中枢神经系统的一部分，在怀孕的前三个月，通过整个基因程序，它实际上是从头骨中挤出来的。

That's very beautiful.

那非常漂亮。

And this might freak you out, but think about it.

这可能会让你感到害怕，但请想一想。

This is the only portion of your brain that resides outside the cranial vault, technically still in your skull, but outside the cranial vault, gives humans an enormous capacity that they wouldn't have otherwise.

这是大脑中唯一位于颅骨之外的部分，从技术上讲，它仍然在您的头骨中，但在颅骨之外，赋予了人类原本无法拥有的巨大能力。

Because what you can make judgments about, space and time, space based on what's next to what, what's far from what, and time based on movement of things relative to stationary objects, etc. That we wouldn't otherwise be able to perform.

因为你可以对空间和时间做出判断，空间基于什么靠近什么，什么远离什么，时间基于事物相对于静止物体的运动等等。否则我们将无法执行这些判断。

You could sense odors at a distance, smoke, etc. But it's a whole other business to have these two telescopes.

你可以感觉到远处的气味、烟雾等。但是拥有这两个望远镜完全是另一回事。

Could you explain what you mean by two refracting telescopes?

您能解释一下两个折射望远镜的含义吗？

Because I think that will set the stage nicely for some of our other discussion about optics.

因为我认为这将为我们关于光学的其他一些讨论奠定良好的基础。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

So I've been in love with telescopes since the age of about 12, when I could first afford to buy one of my own.

因此，从 12 岁左右开始，我就爱上了望远镜，当时我第一次买得起自己的望远镜。

And that really came out of the fact that I recognized the limitations of the human eye.

这确实是因为我认识到了人眼的局限性。

It turned out I was 12 years old, woke up in the middle of the night one night.

原来我12岁那年，有一天晚上半夜醒来。

There was this incredibly bright light, brighter than these lights here, shining into my room.

有一种令人难以置信的明亮光线，比这里的灯光还要明亮，照进了我的房间。

And I was like, I don't know, there's a street light outside.

我当时想，我不知道，外面有一盏路灯。

This is crazy.

这太疯狂了。

Let me look outside and see what it is.

让我看看外面，看看是什么。

And it was the moon.

那是月亮。

And I had never seen, it was near a moonset, which is near sunrise full moon.

我从来没有见过，那是在接近月落的时候，也就是接近日出满月的时候。

And I looked at it, and I kept staring at it, and there was a star next to it that kind of looked like a piece of the moon had broken off.

我看着它，我一直盯着它，旁边有一颗星星，看起来就像是月亮的一部分破碎了。

It was that bright and that clear.

那是那么明亮、那么清晰。

And it's unusual to see these kinds of things together.

看到这些事情在一起是很不寻常的。

They're actually known as syzygies, which is a great Scrabble word.

它们实际上被称为 syzygies，这是一个很棒的拼字游戏单词。

If you're ever, you know, pressed for a win in Scrabble, use the word "syzygy," I think it's like 80 points.

如果你曾经，你知道，迫切希望在拼字游戏中获胜，请使用“syzygy”这个词，我认为这就像 80 分。

And that just means a conjunction, an alignment of astronomical objects.

这仅仅意味着天体的合相、对齐。

I was like, what the hell is this?

我当时想，这到底是什么？

This is 1984, Andrew.

这是 1984 年，安德鲁。

You know, you're younger than me, but.

你知道，你比我年轻，但是。

But Google did not exist for another 16 years.

但谷歌又消失了 16 年。

And I was kind of impatient.

我有点不耐烦了。

I wanted to know what this thing was.

我想知道这东西是什么。

What is this thing?

这是什么东西？

It's not moving.

它没有动。

It's not flashing.

它不闪烁。

It's not a drone, you know, back then.

你知道，那时它不是无人机。

It's not Southwest Airlines, right?

这不是西南航空吧？

So I'm looking at it.

所以我正在看它。

It's not moving.

它没有动。

And day after day, it was like that.

日复一日，就这样。

And I was like, what?

我当时想，什么？

How am I going to find this out?

我怎样才能找到这个问题呢？

Like, imagine, we're so blessed that we have the internet and we have these LLMs.

就像，想象一下，我们多么幸运，我们拥有互联网，我们拥有这些法学硕士。

It's so easy now to be a scientist or do research, and anybody can do research.

现在成为一名科学家或进行研究非常容易，任何人都可以进行研究。

Science is for everybody, right?

科学适合每个人，对吗？

You always highlight that fact.

你总是强调这个事实。

So I realized the only way to find out about it was to wait for The New York Times to get delivered on Sunday, because they did have a section back then that they don't have now called Cosmos.

所以我意识到了解这一点的唯一方法是等待《纽约时报》周日的投递，因为当时他们确实有一个现在没有的版块，叫做《宇宙》。

And in it depicted what the night sky looked like that night, which is a Sunday.

其中描绘了那天晚上（周日）夜空的样子。

And that was like three or four days after what, you know, I had this observation which, you know, was incredibly, you know, observant.

大约三四天后，你知道，我得到了这个观察，你知道，这是令人难以置信的，你知道的，敏锐的。

And I looked at it, and it was the moon.

我一看，原来是月亮。

It showed the moon and it showed Jupiter.

它显示了月亮，也显示了木星。

I was like, what?

我当时想，什么？

You can see a planet with your naked eye?

你能用肉眼看到行星吗？

This was around the time Voyager, you know, was going by the planets on the grand tour of the solar system.

你知道，这大约是航行者号在太阳系的伟大旅行中途经行星的时候。

Never been done before.

以前从未做过。

I was like, I thought you needed a spaceship, you know, and I realized...

我当时想，我以为你需要一艘宇宙飞船，你知道，然后我意识到......

that was my first bit of astronomical research.

那是我的第一个天文学研究。

You know, I looked up, I had a hypothesis.

你知道，我抬头一看，我有一个假设。

What is it?

它是什么？

I was wrong.

我错了。

I thought it was a star, it was a planet.

我以为那是一颗恒星，那是一颗行星。

I was like, this is insane.

我当时想，这太疯狂了。

You know, imagine what I could see if I had a telescope, but I couldn't afford a telescope.

你知道，想象一下如果我有望远镜我能看到什么，但我买不起望远镜。

We were of pretty modest means back then.

那时我们的收入相当微薄。

I had a job working on a delicatessen down the street.

我在街上的一家熟食店工作。

And I'd do that once a week.

我每周都会这样做一次。

And then, you know, I got a grant from a three-letter agency, you know, which is the beginning of many, many scientists' careers.

然后，你知道，我从一个三字母机构获得了一笔资助，你知道，这是许多科学家职业生涯的开始。

I got a grant from the MOM agency, my mother, she supplemented my two-dollar-an-hour salary at the Venice Delicatessen in Dobbs Ferry.

我从 MOM 机构（我的母亲）那里得到了一笔补助金，她在多布斯费里的威尼斯熟食店工作，补贴我每小时两美元的工资。

And I ended up getting a telescope for $75.

我最终花了 75 美元买了一台望远镜。

And I cherish this thing.

而我很珍惜这个东西。

And then I was like, oh, let me look at these things in the sky.

然后我就想，哦，让我看看天空中的这些东西。

And it's pretty amazing.

这真是太神奇了。

I don't know if you know the history of telescopes, but the first ones were invented because of the glass that was present to make eyeglasses.

我不知道你是否了解望远镜的历史，但第一批望远镜的发明是因为用来制造眼镜的玻璃。

So telescopes came from eyeglasses.

所以望远镜是从眼镜演变而来的。

Where were the best glasses?

最好的眼镜在哪里？

Where were the best glasses made?

最好的眼镜是哪里制造的？

In the Netherlands.

在荷兰。

So actually the telescope and the microscope were both invented in Holland.

所以实际上望远镜和显微镜都是荷兰发明的。

And the guy who invented the telescope is very interesting because it would be like he made the telescope but he never thought to look at the night sky with it.

发明望远镜的人非常有趣，因为这就像他制造了望远镜，但他从未想过用它来观察夜空一样。

He only used it as a spyglass to look at objects on the horizon or in a city or whatever.

他只用它作为望远镜来观察地平线上或城市或其他地方的物体。

He never went like this, looked up.

他从来没有这样走过，抬起头来。

That required Galileo.

这需要伽利略。

So he was my absolute hero of all science.

所以他是我所有科学领域绝对的英雄。

We'll talk about him later.

我们稍后再谈他。

Maybe Galileo was the first person to ever look up with this telescope and spot objects in the solar system, in the universe, that had never been seen before with a scientific tool.

也许伽利略是第一个用这台望远镜观测并发现太阳系、宇宙中以前从未用科学工具见过的物体的人。

So everybody had to use their eyes.

所以大家都得用眼睛。

Back to Tycho Brahe, Kepler, Copernicus, they had to use their eyes, which are telescopes.

回到第谷·布拉赫、开普勒、哥白尼，他们不得不使用他们的眼睛，也就是望远镜。

I'll get back to that, don't worry.

我会再讲这个的，别担心。

I know you afford me the podcaster's, you know, predilection of going off on long tangents, but I think this is good.

我知道你让我看到了播客喜欢长篇大论的倾向，但我认为这很好。

Galileo then said, well, I'm going to take this telescope and look at these objects that are otherwise, look like stars.

伽利略然后说，好吧，我要用这台望远镜来观察这些看起来像星星的物体。

And in fact were called, you know, basically, wanderers, because they're the only things that moved.

事实上，基本上，我们被称为流浪者，因为他们是唯一会移动的东西。

He first looked at the moon.

他首先看向月亮。

Now take yourself back to 1609 when he was first looking at these objects.

现在让我们回到 1609 年，当时他第一次看到这些物品。

1609, there were no clocks.

1609年，还没有钟表。

There are no scientific tools of any real virtue.

没有任何真正有用的科学工具。

He in fact would invent many of these things.

事实上，他发明了很多这样的东西。

There were simple things like a magnetic compass, a slide rule, which none in your main demographic will know what a slide rule is.

有一些简单的东西，比如磁罗盘、计算尺，但在你们的主要人群中没有人知道计算尺是什么。

But that's okay, very simple tools.

不过没关系，非常简单的工具。

You know, they would use tubes and whatnot.

你知道，他们会使用管子之类的东西。

But Galileo looked at the moon, and the hypothesis was everything in the universe is orbiting around the Earth.

但伽利略观察了月球，并假设宇宙中的一切都围绕地球运行。

The Earth is the most perfect place in the universe because God puts the things that are most important close to him, in the center of the universe.

地球是宇宙中最完美的地方，因为上帝把最重要的事物放在离他很近的地方，放在宇宙的中心。

God is the center of the universe.

神是宇宙的中心。

The Catholic Church held this, and everything will go around the Earth.

天主教会持有这一点，一切都会围绕地球进行。

And in fact, I'm not going to challenge you because I think you'll defeat me in this.

事实上，我不会挑战你，因为我认为你会在这方面击败我。

But in your audience, there are probably very many educated, I call them Edu, people.

但在你们的观众中，可能有很多受过教育的人，我称他们为“教育者”。

There's many, many educated people.

有很多很多受过教育的人。

I find that even with my brilliant students at UCSD, they can't prove that the Earth is not the center of the solar system.

我发现即使我在加州大学圣地亚哥分校的优秀学生也无法证明地球不是太阳系的中心。

In other words, I'll say on my Astronomy 101 quiz, I'll say prove that the Earth is not the center of the solar system, which was the whole universe back then.

换句话说，我会在我的天文学 101 测验中说，我会说证明地球不是太阳系的中心，而太阳系当时是整个宇宙。

Right?

正确的？

And I would say it's about 75, 80% will not get it right.

我想说大约 75%、80% 的人不会做对。

In fact, I can say to most people, prove the Earth is not flat.

其实我可以对大多数人说，证明地球不是平的。

I claim the Earth is flat.

我声称地球是平的。

Prove me wrong.

证明我错了。

Most people can't prove it.

大多数人都无法证明这一点。

They don't know how the proof is constructed.

他们不知道证明是如何构造的。

I don't expect them to go and replicate what Aristarchus did 2,000 years ago.

我不指望他们会复制阿里斯塔克斯 2000 年前所做的事情。

But this is knowledge we've had for, as I said, 2000 years.

但正如我所说，这是我们 2000 年来所掌握的知识。

The knowledge that the Earth goes around the sun and not the other way around is only about 400 years old, but I would say 99% I know for a fact.

地球绕着太阳转而不是相反的知识只有大约 400 年的历史，但我想说 99% 的人都知道这一事实。

I went to Italy actually, 10 years ago.

事实上，我十年前就去过意大利。

It was the 100th anniversary of Einstein's theory of general relativity.

这一天是爱因斯坦广义相对论诞生 100 周年。

And we had a ceremony to honor the first person who ever came up with a theory of relativity, which is also Galileo.

我们举行了一个仪式来纪念第一个提出相对论的人，也就是伽利略。

Galileo had the first notion that relative motion is indistinguishable.

伽利略第一个认为相对运动是不可区分的。

That if you and I are on a bike and I'm stationary, you can't tell if you're moving, I can't tell if I'm stationary.

如果你和我骑自行车而我静止不动，你无法判断你是否在移动，我也无法判断我是否静止。

That's called relativity of motion.

这就是所谓的运动相对论。

Motion is not absolute.

运动不是绝对的。

Einstein would later enhance that, put on steroids, and then come up with all sorts of cool stuff that we can get into.

爱因斯坦后来增强了这一点，使用了类固醇，然后想出了各种我们可以参与的很酷的东西。

But this notion that you could do observations, that you could use a scientific tool, couple with a hypothesis, and then iterate on those hypotheses to make both the instrument better and your hypothesis better, and then expose that to scientific peer review, which was not what we have today, that was done by Galileo.

但是，你可以进行观察，你可以使用科学工具，加上假设，然后迭代这些假设，以使仪器更好，你的假设也更好，然后将其暴露给科学同行评审，这不是我们今天所拥有的，这是伽利略所做的。

He was the first person to use the scientific method.

他是第一个使用科学方法的人。

What did he use it with?

他用它来做什么？

A telescope.

望远镜。

So the telescope that he used was a refracting telescope.

所以他使用的望远镜是折射望远镜。

Lenses like eyeglasses, two of them.

镜片就像眼镜一样，有两个。

One put at the far end, called the objective.

一个放在远端，称为目标。

It's closer to the object, the other one, the eyepiece, close to your eye.

它靠近物体，另一个，目镜，靠近你的眼睛。

And he was able to magnify things about three to ten times pretty easily.

而且他能够轻松地将东西放大三到十倍。

Andrew Huberman: Can you explain refraction for people that are not familiar with it?

Andrew Huberman：您能为不熟悉折射的人解释一下吗？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

So when light is...

所以当光...

light travels at the fastest speed of any entity.

光以任何实体中最快的速度传播。

Photons travel at roughly 300,000 kilometers per second, except when they go into a medium.

光子的传播速度约为每秒 300,000 公里，除非它们进入介质。

That's what they travel in, the vacuum of space or in a vacuum in my laboratory or whatever.

这就是它们旅行的地方，太空的真空或我实验室的真空或其他什么地方。

But when they go into a medium that's transparent or translucent, they slow down.

但当它们进入透明或半透明的介质时，它们的速度就会减慢。

You can think of it as the light waves themselves.

您可以将其视为光波本身。

Imagine light waves as rows of soldiers marching together.

想象一下光波就像一排排士兵一起行进。

And then imagine that they're walking an angle to the beach here in Los Angeles.

然后想象他们正以一定角度步行到洛杉矶的海滩。

They're marching at an angle.

他们以一定角度行进。

The ones that encounter the water first, they start to slow down.

最先遇到水的，它们开始放慢速度。

The other ones keep moving at a fast speed.

其他人继续以极快的速度移动。

And then the whole beam of light, the whole beam of soldiers gets bent.

然后整束光、整束士兵都弯曲了。

That process is called refraction.

这个过程称为折射。

We can do it...

我们能做到...

well, this yerba mate is so delicious, we can't do it because it's got a little bit of color to it.

嗯，这个马黛茶太美味了，我们不能做，因为它有一点颜色。

Andrew Huberman: Similar to, for instance, if you go and look at a fountain and you see a coin and you decide, you know, you're going to be that mischievous kid and you're going to grab that coin so you can throw it back in, like in any.

安德鲁·休伯曼：类似于，例如，如果你去看喷泉，看到一枚硬币，然后你决定，你知道，你将成为那个顽皮的孩子，你会抓住那枚硬币，这样你就可以把它扔回去，就像任何其他硬币一样。

You can.

你可以。

You can recycle the wish and you reach down to grab.

你可以重复这个愿望，然后伸手去抓。

Grab it, and you miss.

抓住它，你就会错过。

Because where you see it is not where it actually is.

因为你看到的地方并不是它实际所在的地方。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Put a pencil in a clear glass of water, same phenomenon will happen.

将一支铅笔放入一杯清水中，也会发生同样的现象。

That's refraction.

这就是折射。

It's the bending of light by what's called a dielectric, or just a medium that's transparent or translucent.

这是通过所谓的电介质或透明或半透明介质使光弯曲。

And you can do that in a way that you shape the wave of light coming in that it'll be magnified.

你可以通过塑造进入的光波使其被放大来做到这一点。

And that's, in fact, what a telescope does.

事实上，这就是望远镜的作用。

"Tele" means distance, "scope" means viewer.

“Tele”是指距离，“scope”是指观察者。

So a telescope really means distance viewer.

所以望远镜实际上意味着远距离观察者。

A microscope means small-thing viewer.

显微镜意味着小东西观察者。

And so this was kind of revolutionary to use it for scientific purposes.

因此，将其用于科学目的是一种革命性的。

Galileo did other things, we just take these for granted.

伽利略还做了其他事情，我们只是认为这些是理所当然的。

We got all these cool cameras here.

我们这里有所有这些很酷的相机。

These are all refracting telescopes.

这些都是折射望远镜。

You can see the lens in one.

您可以在其中之一看到镜头。

You can see that it's on a tripod.

你可以看到它在三脚架上。

Galileo invented the tripod.

伽利略发明了三脚架。

We take these things for granted, but people didn't realize.

我们认为这些事情是理所当然的，但人们没有意识到。

Andrew Huberman: What a stud.

安德鲁·休伯曼：真是个猛男。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: I want to get a list of things that Galileo did.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我想列出伽利略所做的事情。

I'm going to pause you for one second, and I...

我要让你暂停一秒钟，然后我...

please earmark where you're at.

请注明您所在的位置。

Because I have a number of questions that I just can't resist asking.

因为我有很多问题无法抗拒问。

First of all, if it's too lengthy an answer, feel free to say pass.

首先，如果答案太长，请随意说“通过”。

But why was the best glass in Holland?

但为什么最好的玻璃是荷兰呢？

What is it about the Dutch and good glass?

荷兰人和优质玻璃有什么关系？

Dr. Brian Keating: I think that they were extremely, as they are now, I have great colleagues that are from the Netherlands, they were obsessed with high quality, as Germans are.

Brian Keating 博士：我认为他们非常，就像现在一样，我有来自荷兰的优秀同事，他们像德国人一样痴迷于高品质。

They're very similar to Germans, very into very precise instrumentation and high quality.

他们与德国人非常相似，非常注重非常精确的仪器和高品质。

It's interesting to note that glasses were only really invented in some sense because of the fact that there was an existing standard for human visual acuity.

有趣的是，从某种意义上说，眼镜的真正发明只是因为人类视敏度存在现有标准。

Okay.

好的。

So we all know we go to the eye doctor.

所以我们都知道我们去看眼科医生。

Andrew Huberman: You mean eyeglasses?

安德鲁·胡伯曼：你是说眼镜？

Dr. Brian Keating: Eyeglasses, yeah.

Brian Keating 博士：眼镜，是的。

So we know today that when you go to the eye doctor, there's an eye chart, right?

所以我们今天知道，当你去看眼科医生时，会有一张视力表，对吧？

Andrew Huberman: It's called the Snellen chart.

Andrew Huberman：这就是所谓的斯内伦图。

Dr. Brian Keating: Snellen chart.

Brian Keating 博士：斯内伦图表。

Andrew Huberman: When you go to the DMV, you use the same thing, numbers and letters of different sizes.

Andrew Huberman：当你去 DMV 时，你会使用相同的东西，不同大小的数字和字母。

Is that at a given distance, if you can read all of them, then you have whatever high, acute, let's just say high-acuity vision.

在给定的距离上，如果你能阅读所有这些内容，那么你就拥有高、敏锐的视力，我们可以说是高敏锐度的视力。

We won't get into, yeah, and if you can only read, you know, three lines down, and then you're essentially blind to the rest, then you have less than average vision.

我们不会进入，是的，如果你只能阅读，你知道，三行，然后你基本上对其余部分视而不见，那么你的视力就低于平均水平。

And in the state of California, they'll still give you a driver's license.

在加利福尼亚州，他们仍然会给您驾驶执照。

There are many people, by the way, too, there are many people driving in the United States, by the way, who qualify as legally blind.

顺便说一下，有很多人在美国开车，顺便说一句，他们有资格成为法定盲人。

But because when you drive, you mainly use your peripheral vision, they are granted a driver's license.

但因为开车时主要使用余光，所以他们获得了驾驶执照。

This should terrify everybody.

这应该让每个人都感到害怕。

Dr. Brian Keating: But all those eye charts, every DMV here has the exact same size for the E at the top.

Brian Keating 博士：但是所有这些视力表，这里的每个 DMV 顶部的 E 尺寸都完全相同。

Okay?

好的？

It's a calibration standard.

这是一个校准标准。

How could they do that 400 years ago?

400年前他们怎么能这么做呢？

We're talking 430 years ago.

我们说的是 430 年前。

It turns out there was one and only one standard that was acceptable across all of Western Europe.

事实证明，只有一种标准能够被整个西欧所接受。

It was the Gutenberg Bible.

这是古腾堡圣经。

The Gutenberg Bible was set in print by Gutenberg, and it had a fixed size of all the characters.

古腾堡圣经是由古腾堡印刷的，所有字符的大小都是固定的。

So what they would do is, at a couple of feet, they put the Gutenberg Bible in front of people.

所以他们要做的就是，在几英尺的地方，把古腾堡圣经放在人们面前。

It's amazing to think about it because there's only like, 10 copies of the Gutenberg Bible still left.

想想就觉得很神奇，因为古腾堡圣经只剩下 10 本了。

They're all in vaults.

它们都在金库里。

They're all worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

它们都价值数亿美元。

You can't buy them.

你买不到它们。

Even if you're, you know, Elon, when you look at it, you would be able to tell that you could not see at one foot what I could not see what Andrew could see at one foot.

即使你是，你知道，埃隆，当你看着它时，你也会知道你用一只脚看不到的东西，我看不到安德鲁用一只脚看到的东西。

So you knew that there was something diminishing my visual acuity, who knows what it was.

所以你知道我的视力有些下降，谁知道那是什么。

But they knew that they could then correct that lens to be as good as 20/20 or, you know, get up to your standard for me.

但他们知道他们可以将镜头校正为 20/20，或者，你知道，达到你对我的标准。

And that was the way that they would judge how good your eyes were.

这就是他们判断你的眼睛有多好的方式。

And so they then would correct that with lenses.

然后他们会用镜头来纠正这个问题。

And I always point out how ironic it is because later on, Galileo would take those two lenses, instead of putting one on each eye, he put one in front of the other one and then used that to construct a telescope.

我总是指出这是多么讽刺，因为后来伽利略会拿这两个镜片，而不是在每只眼睛上戴一个，而是将一个放在另一只前面，然后用它来建造一架望远镜。

But he didn't.

但他没有。

He didn't actually invent the telescope, but he perfected the telescope.

他实际上并没有发明望远镜，但他完善了望远镜。

So just like Apple didn't invent the smartphone, they perfected it.

就像苹果没有发明智能手机一样，他们完善了它。

Just like Facebook didn't invent social networking, they perfected it.

就像 Facebook 没有发明社交网络一样，他们完善了社交网络。

So it's usually the second mouse that gets the cheese.

所以通常是第二只老鼠得到奶酪。

They like to say he was the ultimate second mouse.

他们喜欢说他是终极的第二只老鼠。

He would always improve things and make them so much better that he would obliterate his competition.

他总是会改进事情，让事情变得更好，以至于他会消灭他的竞争对手。

Andrew Huberman: Galileo.

安德鲁·休伯曼：伽利略。

Dr. Brian Keating: Galileo.

布赖恩·基廷博士：伽利略。

Andrew Huberman: But it was Copernicus, if I'm not mistaken, that was the first to say that the Earth revolves around the sun while rotating on its axis.

安德鲁·休伯曼：但如果我没记错的话，哥白尼是第一个提出地球绕太阳公转并绕其轴自转的人。

Dr. Brian Keating: That's right, yep.

Brian Keating 博士：没错，是的。

Andrew Huberman: And tilts, which gives us the equinox, correct?

Andrew Huberman：还有倾斜，这给了我们春分点，对吗？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yes.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Okay, so Galileo corrected Copernicus about the math, but it was Copernicus that gave us the first trusted statement that the Earth and the other planets rotate around the sun.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好吧，伽利略纠正了哥白尼的数学问题，但正是哥白尼给了我们第一个可信的说法，即地球和其他行星绕太阳旋转。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, I would say he gave the hypothesis, he wasn't wrong, Galileo didn't correct him.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，我想说他提出了假设，他没有错，伽利略没有纠正他。

It's just that Galileo brought evidence to the table.

只是伽利略拿出了证据。

He brought hard scientific observations.

他带来了严格的科学观察。

Andrew Huberman: So who's this Copernicus guy?

安德鲁·休伯曼：那么这个哥白尼家伙是谁？

Was he just sort of like an iconoclast?

他是不是有点像一个反传统者？

He was like, hey, how about we're not the center of the universe, it's the sun that's the center of the universe.

他说，嘿，我们不是宇宙的中心，太阳才是宇宙的中心。

Dr. Brian Keating: So what was the milieu of the time was that the Earth was the center of the universe, which was our solar system, effectively, was the whole universe.

布莱恩·基廷博士：当时的环境是地球是宇宙的中心，也就是我们的太阳系，实际上就是整个宇宙。

They didn't know about stars and galaxies.

他们不知道恒星和星系。

Certainly we can get into that later.

当然，我们可以稍后再讨论。

But there was what's known as the Ptolemaic concept of the organization of the cosmos.

但有一种所谓的托勒密宇宙组织概念。

So the earliest cosmological models were that the sun is the center, the Earth is the center of the universe, and everything goes around it.

所以最早的宇宙学模型是太阳是中心，地球是宇宙的中心，一切都绕着它转。

However, these were not dopes.

然而，这些并不是毒品。

They knew that there were problems with that model.

他们知道该模型存在问题。

There are certain aspects of the orbits of planets.

行星轨道有某些方面。

For example, I mentioned Mercury's retrograde, and what does retrograde mean?

比如我提到水星逆行，逆行是什么意思？

We don't have to get into it, but there are anomalies that the planets will undergo at different times of the year due to the fact that the Earth is, we know now, rotating, revolving around the sun and rotating on its axis.

我们不必深究，但行星在一年中的不同时间会出现异常现象，因为我们现在知道，地球正在自转，绕太阳公转并绕其轴自转。

But the main effect is its revolution around the Sun.

但主要影响是它绕太阳公转。

And the other planets are too in the same plane, the zodiac plane, what's called the ecliptic, due to the angular momentum of the protosolar system.

由于原太阳系的角动量，其他行星也位于同一平面，即黄道面，即所谓的黄道面。

And sometimes the Earth goes faster than, say, Jupiter.

有时地球的运行速度比木星还要快。

So originally it'll be out in front, if you will, of the planet, you know, forward center of motion, as you like to say, and then it'll be behind it later on.

所以最初它会在地球的前面，如果你愿意的话，你知道，向前运动中心，正如你喜欢说的，然后它会在它后面。

And so it looks like Jupiter is making like this weird S curve.

所以看起来木星正在形成这条奇怪的 S 曲线。

And they couldn't explain that if the Earth is the center of the solar system, except that they added on what are called epicycles, they added on extra little orbits of the planets in order to account for that motion that sometimes it appears, yes, we're moving bulk motion, but then sometimes it goes in opposite direction when we're going in the same direction.

他们无法解释，如果地球是太阳系的中心，除了他们添加了所谓的本轮，他们添加了额外的小行星轨道，以解释有时看起来的运动，是的，我们正在移动整体运动，但有时当我们朝同一方向前进时，它会朝相反的方向运动。

Andrew Huberman: So smart.

安德鲁·休伯曼：太聪明了。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: And they must have known by modeling this stuff on Earth, between objects on earth,

安德鲁·休伯曼：他们一定知道通过在地球上、地球上的物体之间对这些东西进行建模，

Dr. Brian Keating: A hundred percent.

布莱恩·基廷博士：百分之一百。

Andrew Huberman: And that raises, for me anyway, an important psychological question.

安德鲁·休伯曼：无论如何，这对我来说提出了一个重要的心理问题。

So you've got these Dutch folks with great glass.

所以这些荷兰人都拥有很棒的玻璃。

They're using that great glass to correct vision--

他们用那块很棒的玻璃来矫正视力——

Dr. Brian Keating: --I should say.

Brian Keating 博士：——我应该说。

Sorry.

对不起。

The reason that they had good glass is they were some of the foremost explorers, a lot of the early trade, and they were.

他们拥有优质玻璃的原因是他们是一些最重要的探险家，参与了许多早期贸易，而且他们确实是。

What did exploration give them?

探索给他们带来了什么？

Access to trade.

进入贸易。

So they could get the finest silicon and glass and they could make it themselves.

这样他们就可以获得最好的硅和玻璃，并且可以自己制造。

That's their economics again.

这又是他们的经济。

Capitalism always wins.

资本主义总是胜利。

This is a lesson that we shouldn't forget.

这是我们不应该忘记的教训。

Their commerce, their economies allowed them to do trade and acquire the best, highest quality materials, then that was used to make the best scientific equipment.

他们的商业和经济使他们能够进行贸易并获得最好、最高质量的材料，然后用这些材料来制造最好的科学设备。

And it's just curious, it'd be like, you know, if we built these scientific tools, but we didn't use them for science.

这只是奇怪，就像，你知道，如果我们建造了这些科学工具，但我们没有将它们用于科学。

So imagine like building the Large Hadron Collider or Slack or something like that, and then not using it, you know, just like using it to like measure.

所以想象一下，建造大型强子对撞机或 Slack 或类似的东西，然后不使用它，你知道，就像用它来测量一样。

Andrew Huberman: I think Slack is sitting empty.

Andrew Huberman：我认为 Slack 已经空了。

Dr. Brian Keating: Right, basically, you know, but it wasn't originally.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，基本上，你知道，但最初并非如此。

That's the point.

这就是重点。

Andrew Huberman: Right.

安德鲁·休伯曼：对。

It was used for something.

它被用来做某事。

What I'm curious about is why do you think it is that some humans get some technology, in this case glass.

我很好奇的是，为什么你认为有些人会获得一些技术，在这种情况下是玻璃。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: And they want to look at things that are very close up.

Andrew Huberman：他们想要近距离观察事物。

Yeah.

是的。

You know, I like microscopes a lot.

你知道，我非常喜欢显微镜。

Yeah, I, right now, you know, I don't have my wet lab.

是的，我，现在，你知道，我没有湿实验室。

We're still still involved in some clinical trials.

我们仍在参与一些临床试验。

But, you know, I love microscopes and I loved customizing my microscopes.

但是，你知道，我喜欢显微镜，也喜欢定制我的显微镜。

I didn't like them...

我不喜欢他们...

you know, I don't like plug and play.

你知道，我不喜欢即插即用。

I like them sort of the same way that people like hot rods.

我喜欢它们就像人们喜欢改装车一样。

I didn't like motorized stages.

我不喜欢机动舞台。

I like manual stages, this kind of thing.

我喜欢手动阶段，这种东西。

Nowadays you need motorized stages, etc. But what was I going to invest my money into?

现在你需要机动舞台等。但是我要投资什么？

It was higher numerical aperture.

它的数值孔径更高。

Yes.

是的。

Better.

更好的。

Basically, you're able to see things better.

基本上，你能够更好地看待事物。

Dr. Brian Keating: Deeper.

布莱恩·基廷博士：更深层次。

Andrew Huberman: Exactly.

安德鲁·休伯曼：没错。

See smaller things better.

更好地看到更小的事物。

That, that's what numerical aperture will do for you.

这就是数值孔径将为您做的事情。

So it's like putting more horsepower into a car as opposed to paying more attention to the, you know, the paint job.

因此，这就像为汽车注入更多马力，而不是更多地关注油漆工作。

Dr. Brian Keating: People do those, their cameras, you know, they geek out.

布赖恩·基廷博士：人们这样做，他们的相机，你知道，他们是极客。

Andrew Huberman: Right.

安德鲁·休伯曼：对。

Everyone's got their thing.

每个人都有自己的东西。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yep.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Humans have this glass, and they have the option to look at smaller and smaller things or to resolve their vision.

Andrew Huberman：人类拥有这种玻璃，他们可以选择观察越来越小的事物或解决他们的视力问题。

Why do you think it is that a subset of humans, because I think it's a special subset of humans instead, like, I want to look at things really far away?

为什么你认为它是人类的一个子集，因为我认为它是人类的一个特殊子集，就像，我想看很远的东西？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: You know, and you're one of these humans.

安德鲁·休伯曼：你知道，你就是这些人中的一员。

I mean, I delight in the stars.

我的意思是，我喜欢星星。

I delight in the moon.

我以月为乐。

I have some questions about that.

我对此有一些疑问。

I think most people have, who appreciate sunsets and moonsets and things like that.

我想大多数人都有，他们欣赏日落和月落之类的东西。

But why do you think it is that it tends to be a small subset of people who don't just want to appreciate the night sky but want to figure this stuff out that is so far away.

但你为什么认为呢，往往是一小部分人不仅想欣赏夜空，还想弄清楚遥远的事物。

I'll be honest, it never occurred to me.

老实说，我从来没有想到过。

I'm curious about things deep under the ocean.

我对海底深处的事物很好奇。

Yeah, I am very interested in fish.

是的，我对鱼很感兴趣。

I'm very interested in fish and aquatic life and, but I liked terrestrial things, arboreal things, things in trees.

我对鱼类和水生生物非常感兴趣，但我喜欢陆地生物、树栖生物、树上的生物。

And I think most people orient to the stuff that's more of this planet.

我认为大多数人都更倾向于这个星球上的东西。

What do you think it is?

你认为它是什么？

I realize you're not a psychologist and there's probably no DSM, whatever, diagnosis specific for this.

我知道你不是心理学家，而且可能没有 DSM 等专门针对此的诊断。

Dr. Brian Keating: Check them all off.

Brian Keating 博士：将它们全部勾选掉。

Andrew Huberman: But I'll just ask, for you, was it a desire to better understand life here on Earth or was it a desire to kind of leave life here on Earth?

安德鲁·休伯曼：但我只想问你，这是为了更好地了解地球上的生命，还是为了将生命留在地球上？

Dr. Brian Keating: I think it's the latter.

Brian Keating 博士：我认为是后者。

I mean, my childhood was, you know, pretty tumultuous.

我的意思是，你知道，我的童年非常混乱。

I think you and I have a lot of things in common.

我认为你和我有很多共同点。

Both fathers, you know, scientists and, you know, physics.

两位父亲，你知道，科学家，你知道，物理学家。

You know, physics and math.

你知道，物理和数学。

In my case, very hard driving.

就我而言，驾驶非常困难。

Very hard to live up to their shadows that they cast, for example, at least in my case.

很难辜负他们所投下的阴影，例如，至少在我的例子中。

And you seem to have a, you know, just a beautiful relationship with your dad now, but I'm sure it wasn't always like that.

你知道，你现在和你父亲的关系似乎很美好，但我确信情况并非总是如此。

In fact, you talked about that.

事实上，你谈到了这一点。

Andrew Huberman: We did a lot of repair work, and I'm very grateful for where we're at, and I encourage anyone, son, daughter, mother, father, whatever relationship.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：我们做了很多修复工作，我非常感激我们现在的处境，我鼓励任何人，儿子、女儿、母亲、父亲，无论是什么关系。

That the repair work, to the extent that it's possible, is absolutely worth it.

在可能的范围内，修复工作绝对是值得的。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

And that episode, I texted you, is a real gift, not only for all of us who got to witness it, but also for grandchildren, him, his legacy and so forth, and even your dad's wife and your mom.

我给你发短信说，那一集是一份真正的礼物，不仅是对我们所有人见证的人，也是对孙子、他、他的遗产等等，甚至是你爸爸的妻子和妈妈。

But the point is, yes, it transported me.

但重点是，是的，它让我感动。

I was living through, after the divorce of my parents, I lived with my stepfather, who had adopted us, changed our names, we were changing schools every couple of years.

我经历了父母离婚后，我和继父住在一起，他收养了我们，改变了我们的名字，我们每隔几年就换一次学校。

And that discovery of the moon next to Jupiter, it was sort of like solving a puzzle.

发现木星旁边的卫星，有点像解决一个难题。

And there's a famous saying by Albert Michelson, who was the first Nobel Prize winner in American history.

美国历史上第一位诺贝尔奖获得者阿尔伯特·迈克尔逊有句名言。

Andrew Huberman: For what?

安德鲁·休伯曼：为了什么？

Dr. Brian Keating: Physics.

布莱恩·基廷博士：物理学。

Sorry, for physics.

抱歉，对于物理。

Michelson-Morley.

迈克尔逊-莫雷。

He proved in some sense that the Earth is not moving through the ether that was hypothesized by luminaries beforehand.

他在某种意义上证明了地球并没有像发光体之前假设的那样在以太中运动。

But the point was, when a child solves a puzzle, you would think, well, like an adult, you solve a Rubik's cube, okay, I did it once.

但关键是，当一个孩子解决一个难题时，你会想，好吧，像一个成年人一样，你解决了一个魔方，好吧，我曾经做过一次。

I don't have to do it again.

我不必再做一次。

But my son, keep doing it, keep showing off.

但我的儿子，继续这样做，继续炫耀。

Can I get it faster?

我能更快拿到吗？

Video games, same thing.

电子游戏，同样的事情。

Once you solve the, you don't just throw it out and stop doing it.

一旦你解决了这个问题，你不会只是把它扔掉并停止这样做。

You get a taste of that thrill of discovery.

您将体验到发现的快感。

Yes, it's diminished.

是的，减少了。

And, yes, we become inured to it as we get older and a little bit more, you know, there's just things we have to get, you know, take care of in life.

是的，随着年龄的增长，我们变得习惯了，你知道，生活中有些东西我们必须得到、照顾。

And especially as a professor scientist, you know, you can't, like, marvel over the same things you did when you first did these experiments.

尤其是作为一名教授科学家，你知道，你不能对你第一次做这些实验时所做的同样的事情感到惊讶。

But as an experiment, you get transported and you get to, you know, encounter something that you feel like no one has ever done before.

但作为一项实验，你会被传送，你知道，你会遇到一些你觉得从未有人做过的事情。

For example, when I got my first telescope, that night, you know, a couple of months after discovering this, I looked through it, and I saw the same features on the moon.

例如，当我得到第一台望远镜时，那天晚上，你知道，发现这一点几个月后，我通过它观察，在月球上看到了相同的特征。

And I have a 3D-printed moon that my son made to show you, and it has all the craters represented on it.

我有一个我儿子制作的 3D 打印月亮给你看，上面有所有的陨石坑。

So cool.

太酷了。

And I saw the exact same craters on the moon that Galileo saw.

我在月球上看到的陨石坑与伽利略看到的一模一样。

And then I looked at Jupiter.

然后我看着木星。

And when they look at Jupiter, you not only see these beautiful atmospheric bands on it.

当他们观察木星时，你不仅会看到木星上这些美丽的大气带。

And I brought you a telescope as your end-of-the-year holiday gift.

我给你带来了一架望远镜作为你的年终节日礼物。

It's yours to keep and no money down.

它是你的，无需押金。

Andrew Huberman: Thank you.

安德鲁·休伯曼：谢谢。

And Keating brand — thanks for the gift.

还有基廷品牌——谢谢你的礼物。

Dr. Brian Keating: And I looked at Jupiter, and when you look at Jupiter, as I hope you'll do tonight, or with your crew later on, you will see not only the planet, not only its little atmospheric stripes, maybe even the Great Red Spot, which is amazing, three times bigger than the Earth.

布赖恩·基廷博士：我观察了木星，当你观察木星时，就像我希望你今晚或稍后与你的机组人员所做的那样，你不仅会看到这颗行星，不仅看到它的小大气条纹，甚至可能看到令人惊叹的大红斑，它比地球大三倍。

You can see it from Earth with this little telescope I got you.

你可以用我给你的这个小望远镜从地球上看到它。

But you see four little stars.

但你看到四颗小星星。

And there are four stars that are to the left, to the right.

左边、右边有四颗星星。

They're in a plane with the midpoint of these equatorial storms that are brewing on Jupiter for four, we know that they've been going on for at least 400 years because Galileo saw them.

他们乘坐的飞机正处于木星上正在酝酿四次的赤道风暴的中点，我们知道它们已经持续了至少 400 年，因为伽利略看到了它们。

So that sets a limit, you know, minimum storms.

所以这设定了一个限制，你知道，最小风暴。

Andrew Huberman: When you say storms, what are these, hurricane systems?

安德鲁·胡伯曼：当你说风暴时，这些是什么，飓风系统？

Dr. Brian Keating: They're enormous hurricanes on the planet.

布莱恩·基廷博士：这是地球上的巨大飓风。

And the equatorial bands, like the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn.

还有赤道带，如北回归线和南回归线。

Andrew Huberman: So there's plenty of water up there that's raining down?

安德鲁·休伯曼：所以上面有大量的水正在下雨？

Dr. Brian Keating: No, not water at all.

Brian Keating 博士：不，根本不是水。

It's methane, ammonia.

是甲烷、氨。

But it's a fluid, so it behaves like a fluid, doesn't.

但它是一种流体，所以它的行为就像流体，但事实并非如此。

So you have these swirling whirls and the colors will amaze you.

所以你会有这些旋转的漩涡，颜色会让你惊叹不已。

You'll see colors on an astronomical object.

您会看到天体上的颜色。

It's going to blow your mind.

这会让你大吃一惊。

And not only is it going to blow your mind, because you're doing, you're going to feel unique in all of science.

这不仅会让你大吃一惊，因为你正在做的事情，你会觉得自己在所有科学领域都是独一无二的。

You will feel what Galileo felt.

你会感受到伽利略的感受。

You won't know that he felt it before you, had a billion people have seen it since then, because for you, it's new.

你不会知道他在你之前感受到了它，从那时起已有十亿人见过它，因为对你来说，它是新的。

And for you, you're viscerally connected to the maestro, to Galileo and what he did.

对你来说，你与大师、伽利略和他的所作所为有着发自内心的联系。

And there's no other branch of science that's like that.

没有其他科学分支可以与此相媲美。

You can't look at the Higgs boson, first of all.

首先，你不能看希格斯玻色子。

No one person did.

没有人这样做。

A team of 3,700 people that discovered the Higgs boson, and seven people predicted the Higgs boson.

一个由3700人组成的团队发现了希格斯玻色子，其中7人预测了希格斯玻色子。

Higgs was just one of them.

希格斯只是其中之一。

One of my professors at Brown was another one, Gerald Guralnik.

我在布朗大学的一位教授是杰拉尔德·古拉尔尼克（Gerald Guralnik）。

He passed away, unfortunately, never won the Nobel Prize.

不幸的是，他去世了，从未获得诺贝尔奖。

But the point is, you can't know what that felt like.

但关键是，你无法知道那是什么感觉。

You can't know what it felt like to discover gravitational waves, because thousands of people did it, recently in 2015.

你不可能知道发现引力波是什么感觉，因为最近在 2015 年有成千上万的人发现了引力波。

But the question of visceral connection to the first discoverer of that phenomena, it's unique to astronomy.

但与该现象的第一个发现者的内在联系的问题，是天文学所独有的。

I don't know of another branch of science where you can have that.

我不知道还有哪个科学分支可以做到这一点。

And best of all, from here in the center of LA, you can see the same craters.

最重要的是，从洛杉矶市中心的这里，您可以看到相同的陨石坑。

You can see these four Galilean, that are called the Galilean Moons of Jupiter.

你可以看到这四个伽利略卫星，它们被称为木星的伽利略卫星。

And we're sending spacecraft there now to see if they have life on it.

我们现在正在向那里发送宇宙飞船，看看上面是否有生命。

It's incredible, Andrew.

这太不可思议了，安德鲁。

There's nothing else like that in all of science.

在整个科学领域中没有其他类似的事情。

For $50 to $60, I have a list on my website, briankeating.com, I have a telescope buyer's guide that I send to people.

价格为 50 至 60 美元，我在我的网站 briankeating.com 上有一个清单，我有一份望远镜购买指南，可以发送给人们。

I don't make any money from it.

我不从中赚到任何钱。

It's just.

只是。

I love to share science with the public, just like you.

我喜欢与公众分享科学，就像你一样。

But in my case, it's astronomy.

但就我而言，这是天文学。

And for 50 or $75, you can have this experience that Galileo had.

只需 50 或 75 美元，您就可以享受伽利略所拥有的体验。

It's...

这是...

It's an awesome feeling, and I think that's what kept me going.

这是一种很棒的感觉，我想这就是我继续前进的动力。

It distracted me from the pains of, you know, the life that I had at that time and, you know, just struggling, as most preteens and teenagers did, you know.

它分散了我对当时生活的痛苦的注意力，你知道，就像大多数青春期前和青少年所做的那样，我只是在挣扎。

But to answer your question that you asked 20 minutes ago, it was really to transport, teleport, exactly the opposite of the telescope.

但回答你20分钟前提出的问题，它实际上是传送、传送，与望远镜完全相反。

I really felt like I was transported to these other worlds and I could...

我真的感觉自己被传送到了其他世界，我可以......

that I could understand them with simple math and simple tools.

我可以用简单的数学和简单的工具来理解它们。

night after night.

一夜又一夜。

They were reliable companions and people love to see them.

他们是可靠的伙伴，人们喜欢见到他们。

You'll see Saturn, hopefully, with it.

希望你能看到土星。

You can't help but feel this is, you know, amazing.

你会情不自禁地觉得这太棒了。

It's thrilling.

太刺激了。

And it allows you to do science with your eyes connected to your mind.

它可以让你用你的眼睛和你的思想进行科学研究。

It's incredible.

太不可思议了。

Andrew Huberman: So it sounds to me like you were, thank you for sharing that, by the way.

Andrew Huberman：所以对我来说听起来就像你一样，顺便说一句，谢谢你分享这一点。

It sounds like you were able to connect to places distant in space, obviously, and time.

听起来你似乎能够连接到遥远的空间、时间和空间的地方。

Galileo.

伽利略。

That's beautiful.

那好美丽。

I don't think the same experience occurs when one looks down the microscope.

我认为当人们俯视显微镜时不会发生同样的经历。

And it's true that the greatest neurobiologist of all time by a long shot was Ramón y Cajal, right.

确实，拉蒙·卡哈尔是有史以来最伟大的神经生物学家，对吧。

Supernatural levels of ability to understand what turned out to be the correct function of the nervous system just from anatomical specimens.

仅从解剖标本中就能理解神经系统正确功能的超自然能力。

But when I look down the microscope and I see a, even a Cajal-Retzius cell, there's a cell named after him, you don't really feel a connection to him in the same way, although the neurons are beautiful.

但是当我在显微镜下观察时，我看到一个，甚至是一个卡哈尔-雷齐乌斯细胞，有一个以他的名字命名的细胞，你不会以同样的方式感受到与他的联系，尽管神经元很漂亮。

But it's not the same, the way you describe.

但和你描述的不一样。

Dr. Brian Keating: What's great about science in general is that the best science is apolitical.

布莱恩·基廷博士：一般而言，科学的伟大之处在于最好的科学是非政治性的。

But I always say, look, there's no such thing as, like, oh, that constellation is a Democratic constellation.

但我总是说，看，不存在这样的事情，比如，哦，那个星座是民主党星座。

Oh, you see that asteroid?

哦，你看到那颗小行星了吗？

That's  Republican.

那是共和党。

No, it is a safe space.

不，这是一个安全的空间。

So I think we do need safe spaces.

所以我认为我们确实需要安全空间。

And at best, science is a safe space.

科学充其量是一个安全的空间。

Not meaning it never interacts with politics, because of course it does.

这并不意味着它永远不会与政治互动，因为它当然会与政治互动。

But for those moments, we as humans, and you know this better than I do, we need recovery.

但在那些时刻，我们作为人类，你比我更清楚这一点，我们需要恢复。

You can't just work out.

你不能只是锻炼身体。

You don't work out seven days a week, you work out six days a week or whatever.

你不是每周锻炼7天，而是每周锻炼6天等等。

It's still more than six, more than I work out.

还不止六点，比我算出来的还要多。

But the point is, we need to recover.

但重点是，我们需要恢复。

As much as we need to pay attention to the activity, we need to recover, pay attention to that too.

尽管我们需要注意活动，但我们也需要恢复，也要注意这一点。

And so the question is, where can we recover from social media, from politics, from economic stress and all?

所以问题是，我们如何才能从社交媒体、政治、经济压力等中恢复过来？

I think science is an ideal vehicle for it.

我认为科学是实现这一目标的理想工具。

It should be apolitical.

它应该是非政治性的。

We shouldn't be always concerned with politics or what's happening on social media.

我们不应该总是关注政治或社交媒体上发生的事情。

And I'm guilty of this too.

我也为此感到内疚。

I'm certainly spending way too much time on screens.

我确实在屏幕上花费了太多时间。

But the point being, science can be that.

但重点是，科学就是这样。

And astronomy in particular, like I said, it's apolitical.

尤其是天文学，正如我所说，它与政治无关。

It is safe to let your mind run to...

让你的思绪跑到……是安全的。

what you used to do when you were in a dorm with your bros, you know, 3:00 a.m., just BSing, right?

你知道，凌晨 3:00，你和兄弟们在宿舍里时经常做的事，就是胡说八道，对吗？

We don't get a chance to do that when you're thinking about mortgage payments and like, who's taking the kids tomorrow and all these different, you know, quotidian things.

当你考虑抵押贷款付款以及明天谁要带孩子以及所有这些不同的日常事务时，我们没有机会这样做。

As I say, we need to get back to that more.

正如我所说，我们需要更多地回到这一点。

Andrew Huberman: More than ever, I feel, pondering the origins of life and connecting to people who existed thousands of years before us.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我感觉比以往任何时候都更加思考生命的起源并与早于我们数千年存在的人们建立联系。

Dr. Brian Keating: That's right.

布莱恩·基廷博士：没错。

Andrew Huberman: Do you think that Galileo, Copernicus and others were doing the exact same thing?

安德鲁·休伯曼：你认为伽利略、哥白尼和其他人也在做同样的事情吗？

That there was a bit of an escapism to it, healthy escapism, as opposed to trying to solve the position of the planets and understand ourselves for some other reason?

这其中有一点逃避现实，健康的逃避现实，而不是试图解决行星的位置并出于其他原因了解我们自己？

Dr. Brian Keating: Definitely, yeah.

Brian Keating 博士：当然，是的。

I mean, Galileo in particular is sort of this tragic figure in some ways.

我的意思是，从某些方面来说，伽利略尤其是一个悲剧人物。

He had the first notions and application of the scientific method, as I said, using an apparatus to confirm a hypothesis, iterating on that.

正如我所说，他首先提出了科学方法的概念和应用，使用一种仪器来证实一个假设，并对此进行迭代。

So I said when he saw the moon, he saw these craters and valleys and rifts and lava fields that you'll see tonight.

所以我说，当他看到月亮时，他看到了这些陨石坑、山谷、裂缝和熔岩场，你们今晚就会看到。

Again, people, you can buy a telescope on Amazon, $50, and you'll see the same things that he saw.

再说一遍，各位，你可以在亚马逊上花 50 美元购买一台望远镜，你会看到和他看到的一样的东西。

And you can connect it to your iPhone and post it on Instagram if you want, and I hope you'll do that.

如果你愿意的话，你可以将它连接到你的 iPhone 并将其发布到 Instagram 上，我希望你会这样做。

That's your only homework assignment, the only one I'm going to assign to you as well.

这是你唯一的家庭作业，也是我要布置给你的唯一作业。

So I want you to take a picture of the craters on the moon.

所以我想让你拍一张月球上的陨石坑的照片。

But the point is, you'll see the exact same things from New York City.

但重点是，你会在纽约看到完全相同的东西。

You can see them from the middle of London.

你可以从伦敦市中心看到它们。

It doesn't matter where you are.

你在哪里并不重要。

If you have a clear sky and the moon is out, you'll see the same thing.

如果天空晴朗且月亮出来，您也会看到同样的情况。

But when you look at Jupiter, you'll see these four dots.

但是当你观察木星时，你会看到这四个点。

And here's where Galileo just had this otherworldly intellect that, you know, when I saw those, I was like, oh, cool, it's next to some stars.

这就是伽利略拥有超凡脱俗的智慧的地方，你知道，当我看到这些时，我就想，哦，太酷了，它就在一些星星旁边。

Until I realized I had to do more research, that those are actually the Moons of Jupiter.

直到我意识到我必须做更多的研究，那些实际上是木星的卫星。

So in one night, tonight, you can, you know, quadruple the number of moons you've ever seen in your life.

所以，在今晚的一晚，你可以将你一生中见过的月亮数量增加四倍。

And some of those moons are almost the size of our moon.

其中一些卫星几乎和我们的月球一样大。

Our moon is unusually large.

我们的月亮异常大。

And those moons, sometimes they'll cast shadows on the planet.

那些卫星有时会在地球上投下阴影。

So there'll be an eclipse.

所以会有日食。

Andrew Huberman: Eclipse.

安德鲁·休伯曼：日食。

Dr. Brian Keating: You'll witness an eclipse on Jupiter, on another planet, with this $50 instrument or whatever.

Brian Keating 博士：用这个 50 美元的仪器或其他什么东西，你将在另一个星球上目睹木星上的日食。

Okay.

好的。

When he was observing these things, he would do things that were not only psychological and they were therapeutic for him in his later years.

当他观察这些事情时，他会做一些不仅是心理上的事情，而且对他晚年有治疗作用。

I'll explain that in a minute.

我稍后会解释这一点。

He ended up going blind and so losing the sight and kind of the recollections that he had.

他最终失明了，失去了视力和记忆。

And he lost his daughter, who was a nun, because she was illegitimate, as most of, I think, all of his kids, except maybe one, his oldest one.

他失去了他的女儿，她是一名修女，因为她是私生子，我想，他所有的孩子中的大多数都一样，除了一个，他最大的一个。

He had mistresses.

他有情妇。

He was never, he was married, divorced, basically.

他从来没有，他结过婚，离婚过，基本上。

And was kind of, like, he was Catholic in Italy, you know, primordial Italy, basically.

基本上，他是意大利的天主教徒，你知道，原始意大利。

It didn't exist as a country.

它并不作为一个国家存在。

But he was in Tuscany.

但他在托斯卡纳。

And he had a lot of challenges.

他遇到了很多挑战。

He was almost always broke.

他几乎总是破产。

Even when he invented his version of the telescope.

即使当他发明了他的望远镜版本时也是如此。

Again, he didn't invent the telescope, but he made it so much better.

再说一次，他没有发明望远镜，但他让它变得更好。

10xd it, 20xd it, you know, 0 to 1.

10 倍，20 倍，你知道，0 比 1。

And it was incredible what he did with it.

他用它所做的事情令人难以置信。

He realized, this is great and all for me to discover these cool things and learn about the universe.

他意识到，这对于我发现这些很酷的事物并了解宇宙来说真是太棒了。

He was deeply religious, too.

他也非常虔诚。

But I gotta make money.

但我必须赚钱。

I gotta pay for my house.

我得付我的房子钱。

He had like, imagine like your students at Stanford are living with you because that's the only way you can afford to pay rent in your house.

他想，想象一下你在斯坦福大学的学生和你住在一起，因为这是你能负担得起房子租金的唯一方式。

I mean, and you're cooking meals for them and they're like slobs, right?

我的意思是，你给他们做饭，他们就像懒虫，对吧？

I mean, I was a slob in college, right?

我的意思是，我在大学时是个邋遢的人，对吗？

So the point is, he had bills to pay, and he was a businessman.

所以关键是，他有账单要付，而且他是一个商人。

He realized, well, look, if I start making these telescopes, everybody will see the things that I'm seeing.

他意识到，好吧，看，如果我开始制造这些望远镜，每个人都会看到我所看到的东西。

I won't have any monopolistic advantage over, you know, Kepler, who is his friend but also his competitor.

我不会比开普勒拥有任何垄断优势，开普勒是他的朋友，也是他的竞争对手。

They were, you know, really vying for who is the best astronomer of all time.

你知道，他们真的在争夺谁是有史以来最好的天文学家。

Kepler in Germany and obviously Galileo in Italy.

德国的开普勒，意大利的伽利略。

Well, become Italy.

好吧，成为意大利。

And he realized Kepler was purely theoretical.

他意识到开普勒纯粹是理论上的。

He had great math chops.

他的数学能力很强。

He came up with functions for the orbits of planets before Isaac Newton proved that they came from calculus and universal gravitation.

在艾萨克·牛顿证明行星轨道函数来自微积分和万有引力之前，他就提出了行星轨道函数。

Incredible scientists.

令人难以置信的科学家。

But if he gave that, it was like giving a free particle accelerator to your arch competitors, right?

但如果他给了这个，就像给你的主要竞争对手一个免费的粒子加速器一样，对吗？

He didn't do that.

他没有那样做。

He said, no, I'm not going to make these telescopes, but I'm going to sell them only to the government and they're going to pay me because these are great military devices.

他说，不，我不会制造这些望远镜，但我只会把它们卖给政府，他们会付钱给我，因为这些是伟大的军事设备。

And, you know, we don't think of him now, but with it, he went, he's so brilliant.

而且，你知道，我们现在不记得他了，但随着这一切，他走了，他太聪明了。

He was so charming and charismatic.

他是如此迷人和有魅力。

He said, I'm not, I'm not only going to like, sell you these things.

他说，我不是，我不仅会喜欢，卖给你这些东西。

First he went to the Senate in Venice, the Venetian Senate.

他首先去了威尼斯的参议院，即威尼斯参议院。

The Doge, the original Doge.

总督，原来的总督。

We think Doge is a coin or some department that Elon's going to head.

我们认为 Doge 是一枚硬币或埃隆将领导的某个部门。

No, no, the Doge was like the chief of the government back in the Venetians, which is one of the most wealthy countries in all of Europe.

不，不，总督就像威尼斯人的政府首脑，威尼斯人是全欧洲最富有的国家之一。

It was separate from Tuscany and separate from Rome.

它与托斯卡纳分开，与罗马分开。

And he went there and he said, you are in maritime...

他去了那里，他说，你在海事部门……

have you ever been to Venice?

你去过威尼斯吗？

Yeah.

是的。

It's beautiful, right?

很漂亮，对吧？

So he said, look, come with me.

所以他说，看，跟我来吧。

I'm going to take you up into the Piazza San Marco.

我要带你去圣马可广场。

Go up to the tower, and we're going to look out and we're going to see there's a ship out there, but you can't see it with your naked eye.

上塔，我们往外看，我们会看到外面有一艘船，但你用肉眼看不到它。

But if I give you the telescope, you can see it three days earlier before it comes into your harbor.

但如果我给你望远镜，你就可以在它进入你的港口前三天看到它。

That's like you have an F35 stealth fighter and you sell the rights to turn off the stealth portion of it to your adversary.

这就像你拥有一架 F35 隐形战斗机，然后你将关闭其隐形部分的权利出售给你的对手。

And it's incredibly valuable.

它非常有价值。

Andrew Huberman: A time portal.

Andrew Huberman：时间门户。

Yes, you could tell.

是的，你看得出来。

I keep harping on this theme of the ability to see things at greater distance at higher and higher resolution.

我一直在反复讨论这个主题：能够以越来越高的分辨率看到更远距离的事物。

Gives you a window into time.

为您提供一个了解时间的窗口。

Dr. Brian Keating: Exactly.

布莱恩·基廷博士：确实如此。

Andrew Huberman: And we speak of that now, that has an enormous advantage there because of, you know, the trajectory of the ship.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我们现在谈到这一点，因为船的轨迹，它具有巨大的优势。

You actually are getting a sort of crystal ball into what's going to happen later.

实际上，你对稍后将要发生的事情有了一种水晶球的了解。

Depicting the future, whereas looking at the position of the stars, some anticipation of what's going to happen based on historical charts of the stars.

描绘未来，同时观察星星的位置，根据星星的历史图表对将要发生的事情进行一些预测。

Dr. Brian Keating: So you can speak of that now.

Brian Keating 博士：所以你现在可以谈论这个了。

And come to think of it, as you're saying it, light years.

想想看，正如你所说，光年。

What is a light year?

什么是光年？

It's a measurement of distance, but it's in terms of time.

它是距离的测量，但是以时间为单位的。

So it's exactly what, consonant with what you're saying.

所以这就是事实，与你所说的一致。

We are always going to have this combination, this interrelation, this competition between things in space and things in time.

我们总是会在空间上的事物和时间上的事物之间存在这种组合、这种相互关系、这种竞争。

And he realized with this tube that he could see to great distances.

他意识到用这个管子他可以看得很远。

That also afforded him this extra advantage when it came to predicting the future.

这也为他在预测未来方面提供了额外的优势。

Andrew Huberman: As you say, if we could do a top-contour survey of the greats of astronomy, where would it start?

安德鲁·休伯曼：正如你所说，如果我们能够对天文学的伟大人物进行一次顶部轮廓调查，我们会从哪里开始呢？

Starting with people who got it wrong and then correct each other.

从犯错的人开始，然后互相纠正。

Like, if we were going to do a fast sprint through these, where would we start?

就像，如果我们要快速冲刺这些，我们会从哪里开始？

Dr. Brian Keating: Well, you'd have to start with, like, Gog or whatever.

Brian Keating 博士：嗯，你必须从 Gog 之类的开始。

The first cavemen and women.

第一个穴居人和女人。

As I said, the 40 years charting.

正如我所说，40 年的图表。

Andrew Huberman: Stars on the wall.

安德鲁·休伯曼：墙上的星星。

Dr. Brian Keating: Exactly.

布莱恩·基廷博士：确实如此。

We don't know who they are yet.

我们还不知道他们是谁。

Andrew Huberman: Telling their youngsters, like, okay, you know, because those stars are there relative to that ridge or, etc. Days are getting longer, days are getting shorter.

安德鲁·休伯曼：告诉他们的孩子，好吧，你知道，因为那些星星是相对于山脊等的。白天越来越长，白天越来越短。

Dr. Brian Keating: That's right.

布莱恩·基廷博士：没错。

Andrew Huberman: Ergo hunt now, ergo collect stuff to hunker down.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以现在去狩猎，所以收集东西来蹲下。

Maybe even don't reproduce now.

也许现在根本就不再繁殖了。

Maybe even behavioral restraint,

甚至行为上的克制，

Dr. Brian Keating: A hundred percent.

布莱恩·基廷博士：百分之一百。

Andrew Huberman: Maybe reproduce now.

Andrew Huberman：也许现在就可以重现。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, it's going to be a much more optimal time for that.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，这将是一个更加最佳的时机。

Exactly.

确切地。

So tens of thousands, pre-antiquity, you would say.

你可能会说，在古代之前有数以万计的人。

Then the...

然后...

I would say fast forward, you know, to maybe the Egyptian epoch, you know, 5,000 BCE, so to speak, when they had also a very zodialogical and astrological conception of these objects.

我想说，快进到也许是埃及时代，你知道，公元前 5000 年，可以这么说，当时他们对这些物体也有非常黄道学和占星学的概念。

But, and yet they would build things, you know, in relation to the positions of stars and constellations.

但是，他们会根据恒星和星座的位置来建造东西。

Sundial emerges, sundial obelisks, you know, things that were used, primitive things.

日晷出现了，日晷方尖碑，你知道，是用过的东西，原始的东西。

Stonehenge also, I think it's like 20,000 years ago.

巨石阵也是，我想大概是两万年前的事了。

They believe it's related to some astronomical observations.

他们认为这与一些天文观测有关。

They're not entirely certain about that.

他们对此并不完全确定。

Andrew Huberman: We have to double-click on Stonehenge.

Andrew Huberman：我们必须双击巨石阵。

How do you think it got there?

你认为它是如何到达那里的？

Dr. Brian Keating: You know, it's one of those great mysteries that's, I think it's less controversial.

布莱恩·基廷博士：你知道，这是最大的谜团之一，我认为它的争议性较小。

Stonehenge and the pyramids.

巨石阵和金字塔。

The pyramids seem to be like almost, you know, they lead people into thinking about aliens and....

金字塔似乎几乎，你知道，它们引导人们思考外星人……

Andrew Huberman: But what do you think of?

安德鲁·休伯曼：但是你觉得怎么样？

Is it, I mean, given their mass, given their location, given what we knew about populations then, and given what we know about the strength of people and the tools they had at the time, is it reasonable to assume that people built these things?

我的意思是，考虑到它们的质量，考虑到它们的位置，考虑到我们当时对人口的了解，考虑到我们对人们的力量和当时拥有的工具的了解，假设人们建造了这些东西是否合理？

Dr. Brian Keating: Certainly.

布莱恩·基廷博士：当然可以。

I mean, you'd have to convince me that people didn't build them.

我的意思是，你必须让我相信它们不是人们建造的。

But exactly how they built it is a great question.

但他们究竟是如何建造它的却是一个很大的问题。

I mean, so, for example, I mentioned this when I was on Joe Rogan's show.

我的意思是，例如，我在参加乔·罗根的节目时提到过这一点。

I said, if you measure the bases of the pyramids, it turns out that there is a ratio of a qubit, which is actually qubits, not quantum bits like you and your dad talked about.

我说，如果你测量金字塔的底面，结果发现有一个量子位的比例，它实际上是量子位，而不是你和你爸爸所说的量子位。

But qubits is the length of the pharaoh's forearm.

但量子比特是法老前臂的长度。

It's basically a foot and a half, roughly.

基本上大约是一英尺半。

So back then, if you were like the president, you were also the metric standard for all of civilization.

所以那时候，如果你像总统一样，你也是所有文明的公制标准。

Wild.

荒野。

Andrew Huberman: It's sort of like models on Instagram.

Andrew Huberman：这有点像 Instagram 上的模特。

Right.

正确的。

Everyone's trying to attain these.

每个人都在努力实现这些。

What's the standard?

标准是什么？

Dr. Brian Keating: That's right.

布莱恩·基廷博士：没错。

Andrew Huberman: What's the standard?

安德鲁·休伯曼：标准是什么？

Wild.

荒野。

So the pharaoh's forearm is this.

所以法老的前臂是这样的。

And is this about carrying items?

这是关于携带物品吗？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Well, it was just for length or like a foot.

嗯，只是为了长度或像英尺一样。

We talk about a foot.

我们谈论一只脚。

It was a pharaoh's foot.

这是法老的脚。

Yeah, that's where we get those from.

是的，我们就是从那里得到这些的。

Right.

正确的。

So there was only kind of one rough standard for calibration, which is incredibly important for removing systematic effects in science in general.

因此，只有一种粗略的校准标准，这对于消除一般科学中的系统效应非常重要。

So you had a calibration standard.

所以你有一个校准标准。

Now we have, like, a bar of platinum.

现在我们有了一根铂金条。

We've defined, you know, the second in terms of oscillations of a certain atomic called cesium and how many times it oscillates per second.

你知道，我们用一种叫做铯的原子的振荡以及它每秒振荡的次数来定义秒。

Andrew Huberman: Sure.

安德鲁·休伯曼：当然。

A degree, right?

一个学位，对吗？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: A calorie.

安德鲁·休伯曼：一卡路里。

Right.

正确的。

Dr. Brian Keating: So now we want to define those in terms of physical quantities, not in terms of people.

Brian Keating 博士：所以现在我们想用物理量来定义这些，而不是用人来定义。

And so doing that has been a great advance forward in science.

这样做是科学的一大进步。

And we've only recently gotten rid of what are called artifacts.

我们最近才摆脱了所谓的人工制品。

So it used to be there was a rod that was 1 meter long, and the meter was originally defined as 69,000, I forget, of the distance from the North Pole to Paris.

所以以前有一根1米长的杆子，一米最初的定义是69000，我忘了，是北极到巴黎的距离。

But that obviously depends on assuming the Earth is a perfect sphere, which it's not.

但这显然取决于地球是一个完美球体的假设，但事实并非如此。

Andrew Huberman: It's kind of chubby around the middle.

Andrew Huberman：中间有点胖。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, that's right.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，没错。

Bulges because it's an oblate sphere.

凸起是因为它是扁球体。

Andrew Huberman: Right, exactly.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：对，完全正确。

Dr. Brian Keating: And so all these things that were relics, we want to get rid of them and tie them to fundamental properties of, say, a quantum system that's very pure and we can isolate it.

布赖恩·基廷博士：所以所有这些东西都是遗迹，我们希望摆脱它们并将它们与基本属性联系起来，比如说，一个非常纯净的量子系统，我们可以将其隔离。

We don't want to use a pharaoh's foot either.

我们也不想使用法老的脚。

So we have to come up with a length standard.

所以我们必须拿出一个长度标准。

So now we use the speed of light times the second, and we can define things in those terms.

所以现在我们使用光速乘以秒，我们可以用这些术语来定义事物。

But back then.

但那时候。

Yeah, so they didn't know that.

是的，所以他们不知道这一点。

But I told Joe, as I said, if you measure the base of all the Great Pyramids at Giza, they're all multiples of a cubit times so many numbers of the number PI.

但我告诉乔，正如我所说，如果你测量吉萨所有大金字塔的底部，它们都是一肘的倍数乘以 PI 的倍数。

So like, but PI wasn't known to them.

很像，但他们不知道 PI。

You know, PI wasn't known to be irrational until Greeks and Euclid proved that it was irrational, and that, you know, it didn't come from a computation.

你知道，直到希腊人和欧几里得证明 PI 是无理数之前，人们才知道 PI 是无理数，而且你知道，它不是来自计算。

It couldn't easily be obtained from...

它不容易从...获得

it had an infinite number of digits.

它有无限多个数字。

So how did these Egyptians know that?

那么这些埃及人是怎么知道的呢？

An alien told them.

一个外星人告诉他们。

No, the way they did it is they laid it out.

不，他们这样做的方式是他们布置的。

They used a surveyor's tool.

他们使用了测量员的工具。

One of the surveyor's tools is a stick with a wheel on it.

测量员的工具之一是一根带有轮子的棍子。

So the wheel's a circle.

所以轮子是一个圆。

So you got so many multiples they just counted.

所以你有很多倍数，他们只是数了一下。

And that's how.

就是这样。

So we confuse a lot of things.

所以我们混淆了很多事情。

Andrew Huberman: They stumbled into PI.

Andrew Huberman：他们偶然发现了 PI。

Dr. Brian Keating: Exactly right.

Brian Keating 博士：完全正确。

They walked all over.

他们走遍了。

So you don't have to always posit supernatural explanations for things.

所以你不必总是对事物提出超自然的解释。

The answer is simply we don't know.

答案是我们不知道。

I certainly don't know how Stonehenge was built, nor how the pyramids were built, but it's not.

我当然不知道巨石阵是如何建造的，也不知道金字塔是如何建造的，但事实并非如此。

You would have to convince me that it was built by some other means other than people and the tools that were available to them.

你必须让我相信它是通过除了人和他们可用的工具之外的其他方式构建的。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的。

And there's a lot likewise.

类似的还有很多。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: I'm not convinced it came from extraterrestrials.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我不相信它来自外星人。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

So I don't remember how we got on this, but...

所以我不记得我们是如何做到这一点的，但是......

Andrew Huberman: So we were marching through.

Andrew Huberman：所以我们正在游行。

So we were marching through.

于是我们就步行过去了。

So we have the...

所以我们有...

our ancient ancestors, and then at what point do we get to Copernicus and Galileo?

我们的远古祖先，那么我们什么时候到达哥白尼和伽利略呢？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, then it was Copernicus who had ideas but couldn't prove them.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的，那么哥白尼有想法但无法证明它们。

He had no data to substantiate the Copernican, or sun-centered model of the universe, which is also, by the way, you know, almost everything in science is wrong.

他没有数据来证实哥白尼的宇宙模型或日心说的宇宙模型，顺便说一句，你知道，科学中的几乎所有内容都是错误的。

Copernicus is wrong.

哥白尼错了。

The sun is not the center of the solar system, right?

太阳不是太阳系的中心，对吗？

The center of our solar system is inside the sun because the planets orbit around it and they orbit around an elliptical pattern which has two foci.

我们太阳系的中心位于太阳内部，因为行星围绕太阳运行，并且它们围绕有两个焦点的椭圆形轨道运行。

So he believed that the orbits were all circles.

所以他相信轨道都是圆的。

So he's wrong, but he's more right than Aristotle.

所以他错了，但他比亚里士多德更正确。

So that's how science progresses.

科学就是这样进步的。

Newton was right about gravity until he was wrong when Einstein proved him wrong.

牛顿关于引力的观点是正确的，直到爱因斯坦证明他错了，牛顿才发现他错了。

So then you come up to after him.

然后你就追上他。

Kepler discovered the laws of the elliptical motion of planets and their patterns that we still use when you discover an exoplanet.

开普勒发现了行星椭圆运动的定律及其模式，当我们发现系外行星时，我们仍然使用这些定律。

My colleague David Kipping, I want to introduce you to, he's discovered exomoons.

我的同事大卫·基平，我想向您介绍一下，他发现了系外卫星。

These are moons around other planets, some of which are in the habitable zone of their host star.

这些是其他行星周围的卫星，其中一些位于其主恒星的宜居带内。

And some of them have sun-like stars and are Earth-sized planets.

其中一些拥有类似太阳的恒星，并且是地球大小的行星。

It's incredible.

太不可思议了。

There could be, as I said, a link between life evolving on Earth due to the moon on our planet.

正如我所说，由于我们星球上的月球，地球上生命的进化之间可能存在某种联系。

So too on an exoplanet, it could require an exomoon which he's discovered or thinks he has.

因此，在系外行星上，也可能需要他发现或认为拥有的系外卫星。

He's actually very cautious and hasn't said it explicitly.

他其实很谨慎，也没有明确表态。

So Kepler's laws underpin all those discoveries even to this day, 400 years later.

因此，开普勒定律直到 400 年后的今天仍然支撑着所有这些发现。

Then Galileo immediately afterwards with the telescope, phases of Venus that only occur if the Earth is not the center of the solar system.

然后伽利略立即用望远镜观察到只有当地球不是太阳系中心时才会出现的金星相位。

The rings of Saturn, he had notions about those.

土星环，他对此有一些想法。

He accidentally discovered the planet Neptune.

他无意中发现了海王星。

It's amazing.

太棒了。

And then he, of course the moons of Jupiter falsified the notion that the Earth is the center of the solar system, because these moons are going around Jupiter, not around the Earth.

然后他，当然，木星的卫星歪曲了地球是太阳系中心的观念，因为这些卫星绕着木星运行，而不是绕着地球运行。

So that's completely torpedoed the notion of the true nature of the Aristotelian or Ptolemaic Earth-centered cosmology.

因此，这完全破坏了亚里士多德或托勒密的地心宇宙论的真实本质概念。

Then soon after that, astronomers measured things like the speed of light using eclipses of moons of Jupiter, they measured distances to Saturn, they mapped out the solar system.

不久之后，天文学家利用木星卫星的月食测量了光速等东西，测量了与土星的距离，绘制了太阳系。

And then from there using parallax, you can kind of gauge the triangulation, and using trigonometry, measure the structure of our galaxy.

然后从那里使用视差，您可以测量三角测量，并使用三角学测量我们星系的结构。

William Herschel, and his sister Caroline Herschel was the first female astronomer, first female scientist.

威廉·赫歇尔和他的妹妹卡罗琳·赫歇尔是第一位女天文学家、第一位女科学家。

She was the first person to use the scientific method and become a fellow of the Royal Society in Great Britain.

她是第一个使用科学方法并成为英国皇家学会会员的人。

And then later off after that we come to the era of the last, kind of the big developments in technology were photographic plates.

再后来，我们进入了最后一个时代，技术的重大发展是照相底片。

After that, spectrographs, dispersion of light onto photographic material.

之后，光谱仪将光分散到照相材料上。

You could preserve your memory.

你可以保留你的记忆。

You didn't use sketches like Galileo did.

你没有像伽利略那样使用草图。

And then up until Hubble, when Hubble discovered two major things, one was that the Milky Way was a galaxy, it wasn't the entire universe.

然后一直到哈勃，哈勃发现了两件大事，一是银河系是一个星系，它不是整个宇宙。

There were other galaxies, island universes of billions of stars.

还有其他星系、数十亿颗恒星组成的岛屿宇宙。

And then he discovered the expansion of the universe with help from an astronomer who doesn't get a lot of attention.

然后他在一位不太受关注的天文学家的帮助下发现了宇宙的膨胀。

A lot of the women in astronomy got really short shrift.

天文学界的许多女性都受到了真正的冷遇。

People discovered how fusion works in the sun, women, Gaposchkin at Harvard and then Henrietta Leavitt, who measured this relationship between the size and brightness of objects called Cepheid variables that Hubble then used to make his law that proved that the universe is expanding.

人们发现了太阳、女性、哈佛大学的加波什金和亨利埃塔·莱维特如何进行核聚变，后者测量了被称为造父变星的物体的大小和亮度之间的关系，哈勃随后用它来制定证明宇宙正在膨胀的定律。

Then after that, people like Penzias and Wilson discovering the microwave and radio astronomy.

此后，彭齐亚斯和威尔逊等人发现了微波和射电天文学。

Robert Jansky, all the way up until my colleagues today, some of whom I've interviewed, Adam Riess and Brian Schmidt and Barry Barish.

罗伯特·扬斯基（Robert Jansky），一直到今天我采访过的一些同事，亚当·里斯（Adam Riess）、布莱恩·施密特（Brian Schmidt）和巴里·巴里什（Barry Barish）。

He wrote the foreword to my second book; detecting gravitational waves, the accelerating expansion of the universe due to dark energy.

他为我的第二本书写了前言；探测引力波，宇宙因暗能量而加速膨胀。

First Nobel Prize in Astronomy, 2011, followed up, 2015, discovery of, 2017, discovered gravitational waves from, in spiraling black holes.

2011 年首届诺贝尔天文学奖，2015 年发现螺旋黑洞中的引力波，2017 年发现了引力波。

You know, there's so many and there's so many.

你知道，有这么多，而且有这么多。

I've been blessed to know many of them and have them as my academic pedigree.

我很幸运能够认识他们中的许多人，并将他们作为我的学术血统。

Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and thank one of our sponsors, Function.

Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下，并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。

I recently became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.

在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我最近成为了 Function 成员。

While I've long been a fan of blood testing, I really wanted to find a more in-depth program for analyzing blood, urine and saliva to get a full picture of my heart health, my hormone status, my immune system regulation, my metabolic function, my vitamin and mineral status, and other critical areas of my overall health and vitality.

虽然我长期以来一直热衷于血液检测，但我真的很想找到一个更深入的程序来分析血液、尿液和唾液，以全面了解我的心脏健康状况、激素状况、免疫系统调节、代谢功能、维生素和矿物质状况以及我整体健康和活力的其他关键领域。

Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from doctors on your results.

Function 不仅可以对 100 多种对身心健康至关重要的生物标志物进行测试，还可以分析这些结果并提供医生对结果的见解。

For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had too high levels of mercury in my blood.

例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量过高。

This was totally surprising to me.

这让我完全惊讶。

I had no idea prior to taking the test.

参加考试之前我不知道。

Function not only helped me detect this, but offered medical doctor-informed insights on how to best reduce those mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption because I had been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC and acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification and worked to reduce my mercury levels.

功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，而且还为我提供了关于如何最好地降低汞含量的医生知情见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼消费，因为我一直在吃大量金枪鱼​​，同时还努力吃更多的绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC 和乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒，并有助于降低我的汞含量。

Comprehensive lab testing like this is so important for health, and while I've been doing it for years, I've always found it to be overly complicated and expensive.

像这样的综合实验室测试对健康非常重要，虽然我已经这样做了很多年，但我总是发现它过于复杂和昂贵。

I've been so impressed by Function, both at the level of ease of use that is getting the tests done, as well as how comprehensive and how actionable the tests are, that I recently joined their advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.

Function 给我留下了深刻的印象，无论是在完成测试的易用性方面，还是在测试的全面性和可操作性方面，我最近加入了他们的顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。

If you'd like to try Function, go to functionhealth.com/huberman.

如果您想尝试 Function，请访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。

Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman Lab listeners.

Function 目前有超过 250,000 人的等待名单，但他们正在为 Huberman Lab 听众提供早期访问机会。

Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.

同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。

Today's episode is also brought to us by Helix Sleep.

今天的节目也是由 Helix Sleep 为我们带来的。

Helix Sleep makes mattresses and pillows that are customized to your unique sleep needs.

Helix Sleep 生产根据您独特的睡眠需求定制的床垫和枕头。

Now, I've spoken many times before on this and other podcasts about the fact that getting a great night's sleep is the foundation of mental health, physical health and performance.

现在，我之前已经在这个播客和其他播客中多次谈到这样一个事实：睡个好觉是心理健康、身体健康和表现的基础。

Now, the mattress you sleep on makes a huge difference in the quality of sleep that you get each night.

现在，您所睡的床垫会对您每晚的睡眠质量产生巨大影响。

How soft that mattress is or how firm it is, how breathable it is, all play into your comfort and need to be tailored to your unique sleep needs.

床垫的软度、硬度、透气度都会影响您的舒适度，需要根据您独特的睡眠需求进行定制。

So if you go to the Helix website, you can take a brief two-minute quiz that asks you questions such as, do you sleep on your back, your side or your stomach?

因此，如果您访问 Helix 网站，您可以参加一个两分钟的简短测验，其中会询问您一些问题，例如您是仰睡、侧睡还是俯睡？

Do you tend to run hot or cold during the night?

你晚上容易感到热还是冷？

Things of that sort.

诸如此类的事情。

Maybe you know the answers to those questions, maybe you don't.

也许您知道这些问题的答案，也许您不知道。

Either way, Helix will match you to the ideal mattress for you.

无论哪种方式，Helix 都会为您匹配理想的床垫。

For me, that turned out to be the Dusk mattress, the Dusk.

对我来说，这就是 Dusk 床垫，Dusk。

I started sleeping on a Dusk mattress about three and a half years ago and it's been far and away the best sleep that I've ever had.

大约三年半前，我开始睡在 Dusk 床垫上，这无疑是我睡过的最好的睡眠。

So much so that when I travel to hotels and Airbnbs, I find I don't sleep as well.

以至于当我去酒店和 Airbnb 旅行时，我发现我也睡不好。

I can't wait to get back to my Dusk mattress.

我迫不及待地想回到我的黄昏床垫上。

So if you'd like to try Helix, you can go to helixsleep.com/huberman, take that 2-minute sleep quiz, and Helix will match you to a mattress that's customized for your unique sleep needs.

因此，如果您想尝试 Helix，可以访问 helixsleep.com/huberman，参加 2 分钟的睡眠测验，Helix 将为您匹配专为您独特的睡眠需求而定制的床垫。

Right now, Helix is giving up to 25% off all mattress orders.

目前，Helix 为所有床垫订单提供高达 25% 的折扣。

Again, that's helixsleep.com/huberman to get up to 25% off.

再次强调，helixsleep.com/huberman 提供高达 25% 的折扣。

Maybe you can help me here.

也许你可以在这里帮助我。

I've never heard a description of the origin of life in the universe that made a lot more sense to me past there were a bunch of big explosions, a bunch of the elements and stuff that you needed came together, and then at some point there was water, and at some point there were critters that moved and then multicellular organisms.

我从来没有听过对宇宙生命起源的描述对我来说更有意义，过去有一堆大爆炸，一堆你需要的元素和物质聚集在一起，然后在某个时刻出现了水，在某个时刻出现了移动的生物，然后出现了多细胞生物。

Like what am I missing here?

就像我在这里错过了什么？

I mean, I'm a man of science and I love science, but why can't I grasp it when it's told to me.

我的意思是，我是一个科学人，我热爱科学，但为什么当它告诉我时我却无法理解它。

But why is it that it's so hard?

但为什么这么难呢？

Maybe I'm just not smart enough to comprehend this idea that a bunch of stars exploded and here we are.

也许我只是不够聪明，无法理解一堆恒星爆炸而我们就在这里的想法。

Dr. Brian Keating: I think it's obvious why you have this particular affliction and that's because you're used to doing experiments.

Brian Keating 博士：我认为你有这种特殊痛苦的原因是显而易见的，那是因为你习惯于做实验。

You're a scientist.

你是一位科学家。

Your core identity, one of your core identities is a scientist and you think of things scientifically, and as I said before, the scientific method as we practice it is based on hypothesis, observation, experimentation, iteration.

你的核心身份，你的核心身份之一是一名科学家，你以科学的方式思考事物，正如我之前所说，我们实践的科学方法是基于假设、观察、实验、迭代。

Well, think about this, if I study, if I have a hypothesis that certain people can detect sunspots, right?

好吧，想一想，如果我研究，如果我有一个假设，某些人可以检测到太阳黑子，对吧？

So I want to have a control group and I want to have a variable.

所以我想要一个对照组并且我想要一个变量。

So I want to be able to contrast and see if it's statistically significant.

所以我希望能够进行对比并看看它是否具有统计显着性。

And I want to p-hack.

我想破解。

So what do I have to do then?

那我该怎么办呢？

Well, I have to control the number of sunspots.

好吧，我必须控制太阳黑子的数量。

Okay.

好的。

Sorry, I'm not.

抱歉，我不是。

You know, you used to say you weren't around at the creation, you know, at the design meeting for human beings.

你知道，你曾经说过你没有参加创造，你知道，没有参加人类的设计会议。

Andrew Huberman: I wasn't consulted at the design phase.

Andrew Huberman：在设计阶段没有征求我的意见。

And by the way, when Brian said p-hacking is people tinkering with the numbers or the experiment or the hypothesis after the data are in, in order to try and establish statistical significance, which...

顺便说一句，当 Brian 说 p-hacking 是人们在数据输入后修改数字、实验或假设，以尝试建立统计显着性时，这......

And by the way, p-hacking is not steroids.

顺便说一句，p-hacking 不是类固醇。

Not just not good, it's bad.

不仅不好，而且很糟糕。

It's cheating of a whole, it's not making up data, but it's tweaking the experimental design in hopes that you'll get something where you probably didn't.

这是对整体的欺骗，不是编造数据，而是调整实验设计，希望你能得到一些你可能没有得到的东西。

It's not good.

这不好。

You don't want to do it, don't do it.

你不想做，就别做。

Dr. Brian Keating: Your colleague at Stanford, Guido Imbens, won the Nobel Prize in economics in 2021, and he's done a tremendous amount of work in this and, you know, confounding variables, p-hacking.

Brian Keating 博士：你在斯坦福大学的同事 Guido Imbens 获得了 2021 年诺贝尔经济学奖，他在这方面做了大量工作，你知道，在混杂变量、p 黑客方面。

Where do these things manifest themselves in physics?

这些东西在物理学中表现在哪里？

Well, high-temperature superconductors.

嗯，高温超导体。

This goes back to the late '80s.

这要追溯到 80 年代末。

I remember graduating from high school, there was a discovery of room temperature, what's called cold fusion.

我记得高中毕业的时候，有人发现了室温，什么叫冷聚变。

That was one thing that would create also limitless energy too cheap to meter from just using hydrogen and from seawater and palladium and platinum.

这是一件事，它还可以创造出无限的能源，这些能源的价格太低，无法仅使用氢、海水、钯和铂来计量。

That turned out to be bogus.

结果证明那是假的。

And it turned out to be the data were manipulated in such a way that we would say probably fall into the realm of p-hacking, which may not have been maliciously intended, but the goal, the output of it, is certainly a driving incentive that influences people to do things that are unethical.

事实证明，数据被操纵的方式可能属于 p-hacking 的范畴，这可能不是恶意的，但其目标、输出肯定是一种驱动激励，影响人们做不道德的事情。

And that happens at all levels.

这发生在各个层面。

And I saw it in my own experiment, not necessarily accusing my colleagues of being unethical.

我在自己的实验中看到了这一点，并不一定指责我的同事不道德。

We were searching, and we still are searching for what caused the big bang.

我们一直在寻找，而且仍在寻找导致大爆炸的原因。

We're going to get back to your question of how this comes because I think I can help.

我们将回到你的问题，因为我想我可以提供帮助。

Andrew Huberman: But that plate's still spinning in the background like a planet spinning like our solar system.

安德鲁·休伯曼：但是那个板块仍然在背景中旋转，就像一颗行星像我们的太阳系一样旋转。

Dr. Brian Keating: Right.

布莱恩·基廷博士： 是的。

But the query was so big to unravel what caused the big bang to bang.

但这个问题太大了，无法解释是什么导致了大爆炸。

What ignited the spark that became our universe it was called.

是什么点燃了成为我们宇宙的火花，它被称为。

When we announced the discovery at Harvard on St. Patrick's Day, 2014, world news covered the front page everywhere.

2014 年圣帕特里克节，当我们在哈佛大学宣布这一发现时，世界各地的新闻都占据了头版。

New York Times, CNN, every single outlet covered it.

《纽约时报》、CNN、各大媒体都对此进行了报道。

It was called one of the greatest discoveries of all time.

它被称为有史以来最伟大的发现之一。

Not only did it explain how our universe came into existence, it also predicted the existence of other universes in what's called the multiverse, which we've heard about maybe in quantum computing.

它不仅解释了我们的宇宙是如何存在的，还预测了所谓的多元宇宙中其他宇宙的存在，我们可能在量子计算中听说过多元宇宙。

Andrew Huberman: Most people have heard of it on Joe Rogan.

安德鲁·休伯曼：大多数人都听说过乔·罗根。

Yeah, exactly, right.

是的，完全正确。

Dr. Brian Keating: That's right.

布莱恩·基廷博士：没错。

Among many things that we hear about only on that show.

我们只能在那个节目中听到很多事情。

So the point is, it was a query for the ages.

所以重点是，这是一个多年来的询问。

And I knew that because that's why I invented the experiment.

我知道这一点，因为这就是我发明这个实验的原因。

Right.

正确的。

I told you, my father and I, we never really had the rapprochement that you and your father seem to have had.

我告诉过你，我和我的父亲，我们从来没有真正像你和你父亲那样和睦相处。

And that's great.

那太好了。

We always had kind of a difficult relationship.

我们的关系一直很困难。

As I said, he abandoned me.

正如我所说，他抛弃了我。

In my book, I write about this, rather, he abandoned me and my older brother Kevin.

在我的书中，我写到了这一点，相反，他抛弃了我和我的哥哥凯文。

I was 7, he was 10.

那年我7岁，他10岁。

And he just left us.

而他就这样离开了我们。

And because of that, he didn't end up paying child support for me or my brother and alimony to my mother.

正因为如此，他最终没有为我或我的兄弟支付子女抚养费，也没有为我的母亲支付赡养费。

And so my stepfather adopted us.

所以我的继父收养了我们。

And my last name was originally not Keating, it was Axe.

我的姓本来不是基廷，而是阿克斯。

And so when we were adopted, I never saw him.

所以当我们被收养时，我从未见过他。

I didn't see him for 15 years.

我已经有15年没有见到他了。

But I knew one thing.

但我知道一件事。

He was a brilliant scientist, and he was actually the youngest.

他是一位杰出的科学家，而且实际上是最年轻的。

He was.

他是。

He was not only a tenured professor, he was full professor with, like, a Chair at Cornell at age 26.

他不仅是一名终身教授，还是一名正教授，26 岁时就担任了康奈尔大学的教授。

So you and I got our professor, like, our 30s or whatever.

所以你和我都有我们的教授，比如我们30多岁或者其他什么的。

Andrew Huberman: I was 40 when I got tenure.

Andrew Huberman：获得终身教职时我 40 岁。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, I mean, it's like a much...

Brian Keating 博士：是的，我的意思是，这就像......

it seems 26, 27.

好像是26、27。

I was in math.

我当时是学数学的。

It was a little bit different.

有点不同。

But I knew he won, basically.

但我知道基本上他赢了。

There's no Nobel Prize in mathematics.

数学没有诺贝尔奖。

There's the Fields Medal, which is kind of equivalent at some level, but almost nobody knows about it.

还有菲尔兹奖，在某种程度上相当于菲尔兹奖，但几乎没有人知道它。

It's only given every five years.

每五年才给予一次。

You have to be under 40.

你必须在 40 岁以下。

Whatever.

无论如何。

He never won that.

他从来没有赢过。

But he won, like, the prize just beneath that, if you will, called the Cole Prize.

但他赢得了一个奖项，如果你愿意的话，可以称之为科尔奖。

Remarkable scientist.

杰出的科学家。

Got into incredible discoveries in mathematics and physics.

在数学和物理学方面取得了令人难以置信的发现。

And I knew one thing, he never won the Nobel Prize.

我知道一件事，他从未获得过诺贝尔奖。

So some kids might compete with their father, who's captain of the high school football team, and they want to be the captain of the college.

因此，有些孩子可能会与他们的父亲（高中橄榄球队队长）竞争，他们想成为大学队长。

Very competitive.

非常有竞争力。

Boys can be competitive with their dads.

男孩可以与他们的父亲竞争。

Andrew Huberman: Right.

安德鲁·休伯曼：对。

Dr. Brian Keating: You know that.

布莱恩·基廷博士：你知道的。

And I wanted to compete with him, but he wasn't an athlete.

我想和他竞争，但他不是运动员。

I wasn't an athlete.

我不是运动员。

I could compete with him and do what he could not do, which was win a Nobel Prize.

我可以和他竞争，做他做不到的事，那就是获得诺贝尔奖。

And I was estranged from him.

而我就和他疏远了。

And I was like, I'm going to win a Nobel Prize and I'll show him.

我当时想，我要赢得诺贝尔奖，我会向他展示。

And he'll regret that he abandoned me and gave me up for adoption.

他会后悔抛弃我并把我交给别人收养的。

This is my thought process.

这是我的思考过程。

I'm not saying it's like the most, the most elevated way to be, but that's the way I thought of it.

我并不是说这是最、最崇高的方式，但这就是我的想法。

So I said I have to invent something, discover something that's worthy of a Nobel Prize.

所以我说我必须发明一些东西，发现一些值得诺贝尔奖的东西。

That's all I have to do.

这就是我所要做的。

Quote, unquote.

引用，取消引用。

How hard can it be?

这有多难？

There's been hundreds of Nobel Prizes given out.

诺贝尔奖已经颁发了数百个。

Andrew Huberman: That's the way you thought about it?

安德鲁·休伯曼：你就是这么想的？

Dr. Brian Keating: I was at Stanford and you're surrounded by Nobel.

布莱恩·基廷博士：我在斯坦福大学，周围都是诺贝尔奖得主。

You know what it's like.

你知道那是什么样的。

I was a postdoc at Stanford for a short time.

我在斯坦福大学做了很短一段时间的博士后。

We can get into that.

我们可以深入探讨这一点。

And the point was I was obsessed with discovering or inventing an experiment that could take us back to the primordial universe before.

重点是我痴迷于发现或发明一个可以带我们回到原始宇宙的实验。

Before what we call the big bang.

在我们所说的大爆炸之前。

The big bang is not the origin of time and space.

大爆炸不是时间和空间的起源。

It's the origin of the first elements in the periodic table.

它是元素周期表中第一个元素的起源。

Of the elements, we still don't know what caused that event to occur.

在这些因素中，我们仍然不知道是什么导致了该事件的发生。

And I realized that if we discovered what caused that event to occur, which is hypothesized to be a phenomenon called inflation, which was cocreated by at least three scientists, but two of whom were at Stanford.

我意识到，如果我们发现导致该事件发生的原因，则假设这是一种称为通货膨胀的现象，它是由至少三位科学家共同创造的，但其中两位来自斯坦福大学。

So at Stanford, Alan Guth, who's now at MIT, he was a postdoc at SLAC.

在斯坦福大学，艾伦·古斯（Alan Guth）现在在麻省理工学院，他是 SLAC 的博士后。

And Andrei Linde, who's a renowned professor at Stanford to this day.

还有安德烈·林德（Andrei Linde），他至今仍是斯坦福大学的著名教授。

So they predicted that there was this mysterious substance called a quantum field, and that the fluctuations in this quantum field existing in the four-dimensional infinite space, the random fluctuations of a quantum field, what's called vacuum energy, is unstable.

所以他们预言有一种神秘的物质叫量子场，这个量子场的涨落存在于四维无限空间中，量子场的随机涨落，也就是所谓的真空能量，是不稳定的。

You can't have what's called vacuum or negative energy and have it just sit there permanently.

你不可能拥有所谓的真空或负能量，并让它永久地坐在那里。

It eventually, inexorably must fluctuate, and the fluctuations can actually spawn an expansion of that four-dimensional space locally.

它最终必然会不可避免地波动，而波动实际上会在局部产生四维空间的扩张。

And that occurred at a specific time.

这发生在特定的时间。

Andrew Huberman: When you say four-dimensional space, can you tell us the axis of that space?

Andrew Huberman：当你说四维空间时，你能告诉我们该空间的轴吗？

Dr. Brian Keating: So you can think of it as just ordinary three-dimensional space.

Brian Keating 博士：所以你可以把它想象成普通的三维空间。

But imagine X, Y and Z extend to infinity in all directions.

但想象一下 X、Y 和 Z 在各个方向上延伸至无穷大。

And we're sitting at our local, what we perceive as the center of our universe.

我们坐在我们的本地，我们认为是宇宙的中心。

It's just our observable universe.

这只是我们可观测到的宇宙。

We can look out 90 billion light years in any direction, which is longer than the age of the universe, times the speed of light.

我们可以从任何方向看到900亿光年，这比宇宙的年龄还要长，乘以光速。

That's because the universe has been expanding.

那是因为宇宙一直在膨胀。

In addition to having existed for 14 billion years, it's been expanding for an additional power of three times that.

除了已经存在了 140 亿年之外，它还以三倍的额外力量膨胀。

And then imagine time.

然后想象时间。

So time is a fourth component.

所以时间是第四个组成部分。

And we have to weave those together in order to understand how objects behave in this landscape of what we call the cosmic cosmos.

我们必须将它们编织在一起，才能理解物体在我们所谓的宇宙景观中的行为方式。

But it wasn't limited to just our, what we now see as our universe.

但它不仅限于我们现在所看到的宇宙。

We have a horizon.

我们有一个地平线。

Just like if you go off to the Pacific Ocean, here, away from land, you see a horizon.

就像如果你前往太平洋，在这里，远离陆地，你会看到地平线。

It's a circular horizon in all directions.

从各个方向看都是一个圆形的地平线。

So we live on a three-dimensional planet, right?

所以我们生活在一个三维星球上，对吗？

The horizon is two dimensional.

地平线是二维的。

It's a one-dimensional circle that we can see.

这是我们可以看到的一维圆。

Any ship that's above the horizon, we can see visible light coming from it, right?

任何在地平线以上的船只，我们都可以看到来自它的可见光，对吧？

But we can perceive that there are things on the other side of the planet that we can't see.

但我们可以感知到，在地球的另一边有一些我们看不到的东西。

And we have to learn about those through indirect methods.

我们必须通过间接方法来了解这些。

Can talk about that different time.

可以谈谈那个不同的时间。

So there's a horizon on a three-dimensional surface, that's a one-dimensional surface in four dimensions.

因此，三维表面上有一个地平线，这是四个维度中的一维表面。

It's a two-dimensional surface.

它是一个二维表面。

So you kind of lose two dimensions.

所以你有点失去了二维。

And that means it's a sphere.

这意味着它是一个球体。

It looks like our universe looks like a sphere centered on us.

看起来我们的宇宙就像一个以我们为中心的球体。

We look in all directions.

我们向各个方向看。

We see constellations, we see galaxies, we see clusters of galaxies.

我们看到星座，我们看到星系，我们看到星系团。

And you go farther enough back, you see this primordial heat that's left over from the formation of the elements.

如果你再往前走，你会看到元素形成时留下的原始热量。

That's called the cosmic microwave background radiation.

这就是所谓的宇宙微波背景辐射。

That's what I study, its properties.

这就是我研究的东西，它的特性。

And what it reveals is the oldest light in the universe, the oldest possible light was once visible.

它揭示的是宇宙中最古老的光，最古老的光曾经是可见的。

You could see it if you existed, but nobody existed back then.

如果你存在的话你就能看到它，但那时没有人存在。

And it originates from the formation of the lightest elements and the lightest atoms on the periodic table.

它起源于元素周期表上最轻的元素和最轻的原子的形成。

So you could look back and if you could see this, you would see a pattern imprinted on that light called gravitational radiation or waves of gravity.

所以你可以回头看，如果你能看到这一点，你会看到一种印在光上的图案，称为引力辐射或引力波。

And that would be evidence of something beyond the visible horizon.

这将是可见地平线之外某些事物的证据。

And that would actually originate from this inflationary epoch if it occurred.

如果发生的话，这实际上将源于这个通货膨胀时代。

So I had the idea to build the first telescope, a refracting telescope of all things, just a telescope with lenses, but lenses that are transparent to microwaves and focus microwaves.

所以我萌生了建造第一台望远镜的想法，一个万物折射望远镜，只是一个带透镜的望远镜，但透镜对微波透明并聚焦微波。

But I realized I could build that telescope.

但我意识到我可以建造那个望远镜。

And if we were successful, I didn't think we weren't guaranteed to be successful, but it was a big enough scientific quest that it was guaranteed to win a Nobel Prize if we were correct.

如果我们成功了，我不认为我们不能保证成功，但这是一个足够大的科学探索，如果我们是正确的，那么肯定会赢得诺贝尔奖。

And in fact, you know, spoiler alert.

事实上，你知道，剧透警告。

My first book is called "Losing the Nobel Prize" because we had to retract the discovery that we made at Harvard on St. Patrick's Day, 2014, 10 years ago.

我的第一本书叫做《失去诺贝尔奖》，因为我们不得不撤回 10 年前、2014 年圣帕特里克节在哈佛大学做出的发现。

Andrew Huberman: So you had a paper that essentially led you to the realistic possibility that you might win the Nobel Prize.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：所以你的一篇论文基本上让你意识到了获得诺贝尔奖的现实可能性。

Yeah.

是的。

And then you had to retract it.

然后你必须收回它。

Do you recall your state of emotional state or state of mind when you realized that you were wrong?

你还记得当你意识到自己错了的时候你的情绪状态或者心态吗？

Dr. Brian Keating: Very clear.

Brian Keating 博士：非常清楚。

And that's how it relates to this p-hacking and everything else.

这就是它与 p-hacking 和其他一切的关系。

We actually didn't have this paper peer reviewed.

我们实际上没有对这篇论文进行同行评审。

We were so concerned that a competitor, which is a spacecraft, a billion-dollar spacecraft, we were just a $10-million experiment, a little telescope at the South Pole, Antarctica, where I've been a couple times.

我们非常担心竞争对手，这是一艘航天器，一艘价值十亿美元的航天器，而我们只是一个价值一千万美元的实验，一个位于南极洲的小望远镜，我去过那里几次。

And that instrument bested a scientific telescope led by a thousand people, costing a billion dollars, led out of, you know, multiple countries in America and Europe.

该仪器击败了由 1000 名人员领导、耗资 10 亿美元、由美国和欧洲多个国家领导的科学望远镜。

And we were terrified, as many scientists are, that we're going to get scooped.

和许多科学家一样，我们很害怕我们会被抢先。

In fact, the original discovery of the cosmic microwave background was made by accident.

事实上，宇宙微波背景的最初发现是偶然的。

The discovery of this 3-Kelvin heat source that's coming to us in all directions, that is a background was made by accident at Bell Laboratories.

这个从各个方向向我们袭来的 3 开尔文热源的发现是贝尔实验室偶然发现的。

And Bell Labs accidentally discovered it because they were looking at the very first communication satellites.

贝尔实验室偶然发现了它，因为他们正在研究第一颗通信卫星。

You know, AT&T.

你知道，AT&T。

Bell Labs is a communication satellite.

贝尔实验室是一颗通信卫星。

Andrew Huberman: So they stole--

安德鲁·休伯曼：所以他们偷了——

Dr. Brian Keating: --They accidentally said, I'm looking at the satellite that should have a certain amount of background hiss, noise, whatever that was expected.

布赖恩·基廷博士：——他们无意中说，我正在看的卫星应该有一定量的背景嘶嘶声、噪音，无论是预期的什么。

But I'm getting hundreds of times that amount.

但我得到的钱却是这个数字的数百倍。

And where could that be coming from?

那是从哪里来的呢？

They did very excruciating, very high-precision measurements, and they found they couldn't identify a single terrestrial source or a cosmic source of any other sort, except for the fact that if the universe began essentially with a big bang, they didn't call it that back then, that there would be a pervasive heat left over that would be exactly this temperature, 3 degrees above absolute zero, 3 degrees Kelvin.

他们进行了非常痛苦、非常高精度的测量，他们发现他们无法识别单个地球源或任何其他类型的宇宙源，除了这样一个事实：如果宇宙本质上是从大爆炸开始的，那么他们当时并没有这样称呼它，那么将会留下一个普遍的热量，那就是这个温度，比绝对零高3度，3开尔文。

So I knew if they won a Nobel Prize, certainly I'd win a Nobel Prize for discovering why that affect happened.

所以我知道，如果他们获得诺贝尔奖，我当然也会因为发现这种影响发生的原因而获得诺贝尔奖。

It's like you discover some amino acid and then you discover, well, it's produced by DNA.

这就像你发现了一些氨基酸，然后你发现，它是由 DNA 产生的。

Well, certainly, you know, if the amino acid won the Nobel Prize, certainly DNA would win the Nobel Prize.

嗯，当然，你知道，如果氨基酸获得诺贝尔奖，DNA 肯定也会获得诺贝尔奖。

Andrew Huberman: Well, hence Arthur Kornberg, RNA, son, you know, structure of RNA.

Andrew Huberman：嗯，因此 Arthur Kornberg，RNA，儿子，你知道，RNA 的结构。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: So you published a paper that wasn't peer reviewed because you were worried about getting scooped.

Andrew Huberman：所以你发表了一篇没有经过同行评审的论文，因为你担心被抢先。

Scooped is when someone else beats you to publication, folks, and gets credit for the discovery.

伙计们，抢先报道是指其他人抢在你的前面发表文章，并因这一发现而获得荣誉。

It's a whole discussion that we could have some other time if we just want to riff on the process of science, but...

这是一个完整的讨论，如果我们只是想重复一下科学的过程，我们可以再找时间进行讨论，但是……

So you publish the paper?

那么你发表论文了吗？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, we didn't publish it.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，我们没有发表它。

We submitted it to the archive.

我们将其提交给档案馆。

We had a press conference at Harvard Center for Astrophysics and Space Sciences and it was televised and in the audience were Nobel laureates and reporters.

我们在哈佛大学天体物理和空间科学中心举行了一次新闻发布会，会议进行了电视转播，观众中有诺贝尔奖获得者和记者。

But the discovery that, you know, it's clear that we would have wanted.

但你知道，这一发现显然是我们想要的。

However, at that time, I had been removed from the leadership of the experiment that I created.

然而，那时我已被解除了我所创建的实验的领导权。

So I created the predecessor experiment.

所以我创建了前身实验。

You know, it's like iPhones.

你知道，它就像 iPhone。

You build one, then you upgrade it, you build a better camera.

你建造一个，然后升级它，你建造一个更好的相机。

So the first one I invented when I was a postdoc at Stanford, it was called BICEP, and it stood for Background Imager of Cosmic Extragalactic Polarization.

所以我在斯坦福大学做博士后时发明的第一个产品叫做 BICEP，它代表宇宙河外极化背景成像仪。

And it's also kind of a play on words because the pattern of microwave polarization, which we can talk about, was a twisting, curling pattern.

这也是一种文字游戏，因为我们可以谈论的微波偏振模式是一种扭曲、卷曲的模式。

So I made the pun, like curl, like you do a bicep, the muscle behind curls.

所以我做了双关语，就像弯举，就像你做二头肌一样，弯举后面的肌肉。

Anyway, it's not that funny.

无论如何，这并不那么好笑。

And they ended up trying to change the acronym, which pissed me off.

他们最终试图改变缩写词，这让我很生气。

But anyway, the tragic thing is that we built this experiment, we upgraded this experiment.

但无论如何，悲惨的是我们建立了这个实验，我们升级了这个实验。

It's very hard to get money to build it.

筹集资金来建造它非常困难。

I got money from David Baltimore, who's the president of Caltech.

我从加州理工学院院长戴维·巴尔的摩那里得到了钱。

I should say I was at Stanford.

我应该说我在斯坦福大学。

Andrew Huberman: I should say about David Baltimore, just because people might want to go to the former president of Caltech, maybe still Rockefeller.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：我应该谈谈大卫·巴尔的摩，因为人们可能想去加州理工学院前校长，也许仍然是洛克菲勒。

No, he's not the former president of the Rockefeller.

不，他不是洛克菲勒的前总裁。

That's an interesting story.

这是一个有趣的故事。

If you want to look it up, you know, look it up.

如果你想查一下，你知道，查一下。

As they say, scientists are human.

正如他们所说，科学家也是人。

He landed at Caltech.

他降落在加州理工学院。

So they funded you to do this?

所以他们资助你做这件事？

Dr. Brian Keating: He gave me a special grant, just presidential, just called Caltech President's Fund.

布莱恩·基廷博士：他给了我一笔特别的总统补助金，叫做加州理工学院总统基金。

He gave it to me and my postdoc advisor, Andrew Lange.

他把它给了我和我的博士后导师安德鲁·兰格。

He's an incredible scientist.

他是一位令人难以置信的科学家。

He was married to Frances Arnold, who won the Nobel Prize in 2018 in Chemistry.

他的妻子是 2018 年诺贝尔化学奖获得者弗朗西斯·阿诺德。

Renowned scientist as well.

也是著名科学家。

And they were just a power couple.

他们只是一对有权势的夫妇。

And he invited me to give a talk and I gave a job talk.

他邀请我发表演讲，我做了工作演讲。

He hired me on the spot.

他当场雇用了我。

I couldn't help myself from saying yes before he finished this.

在他说完之前我忍不住答应了。

I was miserable at Stanford, by the way.

顺便说一句，我在斯坦福过得很痛苦。

It was the 1999, 2000, dot-com boom.

那是 1999 年、2000 年的互联网繁荣时期。

I was making $32,000 a year living on Alma Street.

我住在阿尔玛街，年薪 32,000 美元。

The Caltrans were running every 17 minutes.

加州交通局 (Caltrans) 每 17 分钟一班。

I know because I was awake from 5 a.m.

我知道，因为我早上 5 点就醒了。

you know, I couldn't sleep more than four or five hours.

你知道，我的睡眠时间不能超过四五个小时。

And I just said yes, moved down to Caltech.

我只是答应了，搬到了加州理工学院。

And because of that I convinced him and my colleague Jamie Bock, who's currently a professor, to build this telescope and put it at the South Pole, in Antarctica.

正因为如此，我说服了他和我的同事杰米·博克（Jamie Bock）（他目前是一名教授）建造了这台望远镜并将其放置在南极洲的南极点。

And that was the only place we could do it and the only university that would fund it was this.

这是我们唯一可以做到这一点的地方，也是唯一能够资助它的大学。

This gift from David Baltimore's presidential fund.

这是大卫·巴尔的摩总统基金的礼物。

So this confluence of events.

所以这一系列事件的汇合。

And by the way, then, because I had this job and because I built this telescope with my colleagues, I got the job at UCSD, which then enabled me to meet my wife.

顺便说一句，因为我有这份工作，而且因为我和同事一起建造了这台望远镜，所以我得到了加州大学圣地亚哥分校的工作，这让我认识了我的妻子。

Andrew Huberman: So let me, incredible story.

安德鲁·休伯曼：让我来讲述一个令人难以置信的故事。

You moved down to Caltech, which is in Pasadena, amazing place.

你搬到了加州理工学院，位于帕萨迪纳，一个很棒的地方。

And then you get the money.

然后你就得到了钱。

How much was this?

这是多少钱？

Dr. Brian Keating: The initial one was a million dollars to build the first version.

Brian Keating 博士：最初的资金是一百万美元来构建第一个版本。

Andrew Huberman: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的。

That's quite a gift for a postdoc.

对于博士后来说，这真是一份礼物。

A million bucks.

一百万美元。

You decide the South Pole will be the place to do it.

您决定将南极作为执行此操作的地点。

We can talk about why that is.

我们可以谈谈为什么会这样。

And then you make this discovery, which turns out to be false.

然后你做出了这个发现，结果证明这是错误的。

But it sounds like you have good feelings about the experience nonetheless.

但听起来你对这次经历还是有很好的感觉。

Dr. Brian Keating: So, because I was recognized and this experiment got a lot of attention because it was really the first one ever designed to look for the spark that ignited the whole big bang.

布莱恩·基廷博士：所以，因为我被认可了，而且这个实验得到了很多关注，因为它确实是第一个旨在寻找点燃整个大爆炸的火花的实验。

So it became, you know, just the cause célèbre of the cosmology field.

所以，你知道，它成为宇宙学领域的著名事件。

Andrew Huberman: And are you thinking at this point, forgive me for playing therapist here, I'm not one, I'm not pretending to be, no, it's fine.

安德鲁·休伯曼：此时你是否在想，请原谅我在这里扮演治疗师，我不是治疗师，我不是假装是，不，没关系。

Were you thinking at this point, okay, you know, this challenge that I think not all, but a lot of sons have with their fathers, not necessarily to best them, but one evaluates themselves relative to, like, their family lineage.

你在这一点上是否在想，好吧，你知道，我认为不是所有的，而是很多儿子与他们的父亲一起面临的这一挑战，不一定是为了超越他们，而是一个人相对于他们的家庭血统来评价自己。

Sometimes it's a grandfather, this thing of having some internal friction in order to live up to something?

有时候是爷爷啊，为了不辜负什么而产生一些内耗这件事？

Sounds like that was driving you when you--

听起来好像这在驱使着你，当你——

Dr. Brian Keating: --Tiger Woods, another Stanford, right?

布莱恩·基廷博士：——泰格·伍兹，另一个斯坦福大学，对吗？

Same, same story.

同样的，同样的故事。

Father, hard pushing, driving.

父亲，努力推动，开车。

And then what does he do after he, you know, is a PGA champion?

那么，当他成为 PGA 冠军之后，他会做什么呢？

He wants to, like, become a Navy SEAL or something.

他想成为一名海豹突击队什么的。

Andrew Huberman: Like, he was hanging out with a lot of SEAL teams.

安德鲁·休伯曼：就像，他和很多海豹突击队一起出去玩。

Dr. Brian Keating: It wasn't enough for him.

Brian Keating 博士：这对他来说还不够。

Sorry, I interrupted your question.

抱歉，我打断了你的问题。

Andrew Huberman: So at the point where you made this discovery, were you feeling like, all right, check that box?

Andrew Huberman：所以当你做出这个发现时，你是否感觉，好吧，勾选那个框？

Dr. Brian Keating: What was kind of revelatory to me is that sometimes you start a quest or you start a journey, and the fuel that gets you going, it no longer serves you when you get there.

布莱恩·基廷博士：对我来说，某种启发是，有时你开始一项任务或开始一段旅程，当你到达那里时，让你前进的燃料就不再为你服务了。

You know, my brother always says, you know, baggage has handles, so you can put it down.

你知道，我哥哥总是说，你知道，行李有把手，所以你可以把它放下。

Andrew Huberman: Nice.

安德鲁·休伯曼：很好。

Dr. Brian Keating: So that, like, journey from initiating it, the experiment, to best my dad, to show him up, to make him regret that he abandoned me and my brother.

布莱恩·基廷博士：所以，就像从开始实验到打败我父亲，让他出现，让他后悔抛弃了我和我兄弟的旅程。

I mean, I always said I could.

我的意思是，我总是说我可以。

I could see why he abandoned me.

我明白他为什么抛弃我了。

I was only seven, kind of boring, you know.

我当时才七岁，有点无聊，你知道。

He used to joke, I only care about kids once they learn calculus.

他曾经开玩笑说，我只关心孩子们学会了微积分。

He was, you know, funny.

你知道，他很有趣。

Andrew Huberman: What a cruel thing to say.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这真是残酷的话。

Dr. Brian Keating: He would say it in jest.

Brian Keating 博士：他会开玩笑地说。

And it is true, we did reunite and we did have a rapprochement, but it was after inventing this experiment, after I arrived at Caltech.

确实，我们确实重聚，也确实恢复了和解，但那是在我发明这个实验之后，在我到达加州理工学院之后。

I mean, he was this kind of intellect.

我的意思是，他就是这样的才智。

And it was so lovely to see you and your dad.

很高兴见到你和你的父亲。

You know, my wish for you is to have kind of an experience, maybe similar, maybe not.

你知道，我对你的愿望是拥有某种经历，也许相似，也许不相似。

But when you do have kids, and please God, you will, you get a do-over.

但当你真的有了孩子时，上帝保佑，你会的，你会得到重来。

You get to kind of correct the mistakes or the ways that you, and you'll never get it right, you know.

你知道，你必须纠正错误或纠正你的方式，但你永远不会做对。

One of my friends, a psychiatrist, he says, your job as a parent is to only pass on half of your neuroticism to your kids.

我的一位朋友，一位精神科医生，他说，作为父母，你的工作就是只将一半的神经质传递给你的孩子。

And if every generation does that, it will eventually be a perfect species.

如果每一代人都这样做，它最终将成为一个完美的物种。

But I felt that passion and so forth to kind of best him.

但我感觉到那种激情等等让他变得更好。

And then when we reunited, and as I said, it no longer served me, but the trajectory that I had launched this experiment continued unabated.

然后，当我们重聚时，正如我所说，它不再对我有用，但我发起这个实验的轨迹仍然有增无减。

And so that had this inertia, this momentum that couldn't be stopped.

所以就有了这种惯性，这种无法停止的动力。

In fact, so many people wanted a part of it and so much pressure was surrounding it that I think partially that led to me actually being kind of kicked out of the leadership of the experiment.

事实上，很多人都想要参与其中，而且围绕着它的压力也很大，我认为这在一定程度上导致了我实际上被踢出了实验的领导地位。

And that was precipitated by a truly tragic event.

这是由一个真正悲惨的事件促成的。

So I told you, my advisor, Sarah Church, set up a job interview for me with her advisor when she was a postdoc at Caltech, named Andrew Lange.

所以我告诉过你，我的导师莎拉·丘奇（Sarah Church）为我安排了一次工作面试，当时她的导师是加州理工学院的博士后，名叫安德鲁·兰格（Andrew Lange）。

Andrew was like, at that time, I was estranged from my dad, he was like a father figure.

安德鲁当时就觉得，我和父亲疏远了，他就像一个父亲的形象。

He was like, you know, like, ever see the TV show Mad Men?

他就像，你知道，就像，看过电视节目《广告狂人》吗？

Like Don Draper, he's just like, handsome, good looking.

就像唐·德雷珀（Don Draper）一样，他非常英俊、好看。

Everyone thought he was going to win a Nobel Prize.

每个人都认为他会获得诺贝尔奖。

He was stolen from Berkeley.

他是从伯克利被偷走的。

They spent tons of money to recruit him from Berkeley to come to Caltech.

他们花了很多钱把他从伯克利招到加州理工学院。

He only came.

他才来。

His wife was a power couple, Frances Arnold, again.

他的妻子弗朗西斯·阿诺德（Frances Arnold）又是一对权力夫妻。

She won the Nobel Prize a few years ago.

几年前，她获得了诺贝尔奖。

And he just had the world at his fingertips.

而他的世界就在他的指尖。

Charming, funny.

迷人、有趣。

And he would say things like, Brian, this is so unrealistic that we have to do it.

他会说，布莱恩，这太不现实了，我们必须这样做。

He was a kid, he loved to play.

他还是个孩子，他喜欢玩。

And he's the one who inspired me in this way of just never stopping.

他是那个以永不止步的方式激励我的人。

Like that passionate curiosity and the reward that you get.

喜欢那种强烈的好奇心和你得到的回报。

I always say, when you solve a problem, your reward is a harder problem.

我总是说，当你解决了一个问题时，你的回报就是一个更难的问题。

But if you're a scientist, that feels good because it's like I always say, and I think it's one of your colleagues.

但如果你是一名科学家，那感觉很好，因为就像我常说的那样，而且我认为这是你的一位同事。

I'm not sure there's so much good stuff going on up there, but there's this concept of finite games and infinite games, right?

我不确定那里有那么多好东西，但是有有限游戏和无限游戏的概念，对吗？

So I always say science is an infinite game.

所以我总是说科学是一场无限的游戏。

You can't win science, it goes on forever.

你无法赢得科学，它永远持续下去。

No one masters all of whatever science is.

没有人掌握所有科学。

You can debate even what it is, but it's composed of an infinite number of finite games.

你甚至可以争论它是什么，但它是由无数个有限游戏组成的。

Getting into college, getting into graduate school, getting a postdoc, getting a tenure track position, Those are all finite games, right?

进入大学、进入研究生院、获得博士后、获得终身教职，这些都是有限游戏，对吗？

And the ultimate, what's the ultimate finite game?

终极的，终极的有限游戏是什么？

A Nobel Prize, because only three people can win it each year.

诺贝尔奖，因为每年只有三个人能获得它。

Only 200 people have ever won it.

只有 200 人曾赢得过该奖项。

There's more people in the NBA than have won it in physics.

NBA 中获得物理学奖的人还多。

So this is a very exclusive club.

所以这是一个非常独特的俱乐部。

And if you win it, somebody else isn't going to win it, odds are.

如果你赢了，其他人也不会赢，可能性很大。

And this pressure to kind of get to that level should never exceed the passion that drove you to become a scientist in the first place.

这种达到那个水平的压力永远不应该超过最初驱使你成为一名科学家的热情。

And so I was obsessed with that.

所以我对此很着迷。

And what Andrew Lange showed me is that science is its own reward.

安德鲁·兰格向我展示的是科学本身就是回报。

And the pleasure of finding things out, as Feynman would say, is its reward.

正如费曼所说，发现问题的乐趣就是它的回报。

Science is its own reward.

科学本身就是一种奖励。

And that's characteristic of these infinite games.

这就是这些无限游戏的特点。

You want to keep playing them.

你想继续玩它们。

And the tragic thing is that I'm emotional thinking about this.

可悲的是，我在思考这个问题时情绪激动。

When Andrew was at the peak of his life, he chose to take it.

当安德鲁正处于人生巅峰时，他选择了接受。

He took his own life.

他结束了自己的生命。

Andrew Huberman: He killed himself.

安德鲁·休伯曼：他自杀了。

Dr. Brian Keating: He killed himself, ironically, tragically, he used helium, which is, you know, central to the formation of the universe.

布莱恩·基廷博士：他自杀了，讽刺的是，悲剧的是，他用的是氦气，你知道，氦气是宇宙形成的核心。

The creation of our universe is reliant, in large part on helium, the abundance of it, and he asphyxiated himself in a cheap, dirty, sleazy motel, actually, I had stayed at in Pasadena when I was visiting him for my initial job talk.

我们的宇宙的创造在很大程度上依赖于氦气，它的丰富性，他在一家廉价、肮脏、简陋的汽车旅馆里窒息了自己，事实上，当我拜访他进行第一次工作谈话时，我就住在帕萨迪纳。

Andrew Huberman: Can I, do you mind if we go into this a bit?

Andrew Huberman：您介意我们深入探讨一下吗？

I realize it's a painful memory and I feel it, you know, not to shift the focus, but ironically, all three of my academic advisors are dead.

我意识到这是一段痛苦的记忆，我感觉到它，你知道，不是为了转移焦点，但讽刺的是，我的三位学术顾问都死了。

First one shot himself in a bathtub two weeks after we celebrated something for him.

在我们为他庆祝某件事两周后，第一个人在浴缸里开枪自杀。

Just like, you know, suicide is such a peculiar thing he did for very different reasons, different stage of life.

就像，你知道，自杀是一件很奇怪的事情，他出于不同的原因、不同的人生阶段而这样做。

Let's get back to Lange.

让我们回到兰格。

How old was he?

他几岁了？

Dr. Brian Keating: He was 41, I think.

Brian Keating 博士：我想他当时 41 岁。

Andrew Huberman: He was young.

安德鲁·休伯曼：他很年轻。

Dr. Brian Keating: He had three kids.

布莱恩·基廷博士：他有三个孩子。

Andrew Huberman: Is his wife still alive?

安德鲁·休伯曼：他的妻子还活着吗？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, Frances, still, you know, renowned professor.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，Frances，你知道，仍然是一位著名的教授。

Andrew Huberman: Was she shocked?

安德鲁·休伯曼：她感到震惊吗？

Dr. Brian Keating: They were separated.

Brian Keating 博士：他们分开了。

They had become estranged and they weren't living together.

他们已经疏远了，不再住在一起了。

It was interesting.

这很有趣。

He was always very close.

他总是很亲近。

She had two children, I think from a previous marriage or one child from a previous marriage.

她有两个孩子，我想是前一次婚姻的孩子，或者是前一次婚姻的一个孩子。

And he was like a father to that son as well, like a biological father or whatever that means.

他也就像那个儿子的父亲，就像亲生父亲或其他什么意思。

Kids were so dedicated to him.

孩子们对他非常忠诚。

And look, don't cry for me.

听着，别为我哭泣。

I mean, I'm still emotional because he meant so much to me as a mentor, as a friend, as an advisor, as a father figure, basically.

我的意思是，我仍然很情绪化，因为他对我来说意义重大，作为一个导师，一个朋友，一个顾问，一个父亲的形象，基本上。

But he had real kids and he had adopted kids.

但他有真正的孩子，也有收养的孩子。

Andrew Huberman: It was tragic for everyone.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这对每个人来说都是悲剧。

Suicide is such a peculiar thing because in some sense it can make sense if somebody we know is very depressed or they have a terminal illness, you know, but sounds like it came as a bit of a surprise.

自杀是一件很奇怪的事情，因为从某种意义上来说，如果我们认识的人非常抑郁或者患有绝症，那么自杀是有道理的，但听起来有点令人惊讶。

Do you think that sometimes there's this close relationship between genius and, let's just say, not mentally healthy, that, you know, even what you mentioned before, you know, like, we have to try this experiment.

你是否认为有时天才和精神不健康之间存在着这种密切的关系，你知道，即使你之前提到过，你知道，我们必须尝试这个实验。

I mean, there's a bit of recklessness to that when you're dealing with millions and millions of dollars in postdoc careers and you know that there's, I mean, the delight of a fun experiment and an adventurous experiment maybe as a, like a project where you kind of wade into it a little bit to see.

我的意思是，当你在博士后职业生涯中处理数百万美元时，这有点鲁莽，而且你知道，我的意思是，有一个有趣的实验和一个冒险的实验的乐趣，也许就像一个项目，你需要稍微涉足其中看看。

But that's very different than like, we have to do this.

但这与我们必须这样做有很大不同。

Yeah, I mean, there's a risk-taking element there that supersedes kind of my notions of like what an advisor's job is, which is to make sure that people progress toward discovery, but also like, you want some...

是的，我的意思是，那里有一种冒险元素，它取代了我对顾问工作的看法，即确保人们在发现方面取得进展，但也像，你想要一些……

one of the most important things to mentoring scientists is that they have some sense that there is a future for them.

对于指导科学家来说，最重要的事情之一是让他们意识到自己有未来。

And you can't guarantee it, but you'd like to, like a parent would for a child.

你不能保证这一点，但你愿意，就像父母对孩子所做的那样。

You want to give them some sense that like the sun's going to come up tomorrow.

你想要给他们一些感觉，就像太阳明天会升起一样。

Dr. Brian Keating: That's right.

布莱恩·基廷博士：没错。

Andrew Huberman: Like we're not going to implode or explode here.

Andrew Huberman：就像我们不会在这里内爆或爆炸一样。

Dr. Brian Keating: And he was a pragmatist.

Brian Keating 博士：他是一位实用主义者。

He would give me advice, life advice, you know, and again, I was estranged from my father.

他会给我建议，生活建议，你知道，但我再次与父亲疏远了。

He was playing this role and he was just so, he was charming, he was handsome, charismatic.

他正在扮演这个角色，他就是这样，他很有魅力，他很英俊，有魅力。

He had just discovered, you know, came off this discovery of proving that the universe has a flat spatial geometry, which just means that any triangle that you make in the universe, whether it's three planets, three stars, three galaxies, three patches of the cosmic microwave background radiation, always the interior angles add up to 180 degrees as they do on a flat table here.

他刚刚发现，你知道，这个发现证明了宇宙具有平坦的空间几何形状，这意味着你在宇宙中制作的任何三角形，无论是三个行星、三个恒星、三个星系、三个宇宙微波背景辐射斑块，内角之和总是 180 度，就像在平坦的桌子上一样。

As they did for Euclid.

正如他们为欧几里得所做的那样。

And that had astonishing implications for how the universe might have begun.

这对宇宙的起源产生了惊人的影响。

Andrew Huberman: And it's still true.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这仍然是事实。

Dr. Brian Keating: And this is still true.

Brian Keating 博士：这仍然是事实。

It's more true than ever.

这比以往任何时候都更加真实。

Andrew Huberman: So do you think that perhaps, I mean, who knows, perhaps he committed suicide because he was at a peak?

安德鲁·休伯曼：所以你认为也许，我的意思是，谁知道，也许他自杀是因为他正处于巅峰？

You know, one of the things that people talk about is the peak and trough of dopamine.

你知道，人们谈论的事情之一就是多巴胺的高峰和低谷。

You mentioned infinite games.

你提到了无限游戏。

You know that I've said many times before that it's very important that you not get fast, large amplitude increases in dopamine that are not preceded by effort.

你知道，我之前已经说过很多次，非常重要的是，在没有付出努力之前，多巴胺不要快速大幅增加。

You know, methamphetamine will give you a large amplitude, you know, fast increase in dopamine, but there's zero effort involved except to procure it.

你知道，甲基苯丙胺会让你的多巴胺大幅增加，但除了获取它之外，你不需要付出任何努力。

And it sinks you into a postdopaminergic-peak trough afterwards that will have you hanging on for the will to live.

之后它会让你陷入多巴胺能后的峰值低谷，让你坚持求生的意志。

So what comes up goes down, and it often goes down further than it went up.

因此，上涨的东西就会下跌，而且下跌的幅度往往比上涨的幅度还要大。

When we're talking about dopamine, playing an infinite game is great because it's in the motivation for answers.

当我们谈论多巴胺时，玩无限游戏很棒，因为它是寻找答案的动力。

It sounds like he hit a peak and do you wonder if maybe he was like, okay, now I'm gonna check out now it's gonna be hard to keep doing this.

听起来他已经达到了顶峰，你是否想知道他是否会说，好吧，现在我要检查一下，继续这样做会很困难。

Dr. Brian Keating: I don't think it's explicable.

Brian Keating 博士：我认为这是无法解释的。

I mean, the human brain is the most complicated thing, you know, that human brains could even contemplate.

我的意思是，人类大脑是人类大脑可以思考的最复杂的东西。

It's solipsistic in a sense, but I couldn't really wade into it.

从某种意义上说，这是唯我主义的，但我无法真正深入其中。

I mean, I know details of his personal life, and yes, divorce and separation and so forth, but I don't think, I don't think that's it.

我的意思是，我知道他个人生活的细节，是的，离婚和分居等等，但我不认为，我不认为就是这样。

Just because the highs of the new quest and like the dopamine hadn't really come in from BICEP, and it wouldn't come in for four more years after his death in 2010.

只是因为新任务的高潮和多巴胺并没有真正从 BICEP 中产生，而且在他 2010 年去世后的四年内都不会出现。

Andrew Huberman: So you got to continue the project.

Andrew Huberman：所以你必须继续这个项目。

Dr. Brian Keating: We got to continue the project.

Brian Keating 博士：我们必须继续这个项目。

But because he was removed and he was kind of my, you know, consigliere, you know, whatever I was to him.

但因为他被移除了，他是我的，你知道，军师，你知道，无论我对他来说是什么。

I forget how the relationship goes.

我忘记了关系如何发展。

I'm not as conversant with the mafia as I should be, but.

我对黑手党并不如我应有的那么熟悉，但是。

But with...

但随着...

Andrew, with his death, one of the, you know, trivial in comparison consequences was that the main patron and backer of me in my career, who had helped me get my job at UCSD, had helped me get this presidential career grant, which I received from President Bush, and all these incredible accomplishments and just been my sounding board on experiments and kept me going and helped me when I had troubles with my graduate students, and he would talk to my, I mean, it's unheard of, right?

安德鲁，你知道，与他的去世相比，微不足道的后果之一是，我职业生涯中的主要赞助人和支持者，他帮助我在加州大学圣地亚哥分校找到了工作，帮助我获得了布什总统提供的总统职业补助金，以及所有这些令人难以置信的成就，并且只是我在实验中的传声筒，当我与研究生遇到麻烦时，他让我继续前进并帮助我，他会跟我说话，我的意思是，这是闻所未闻的，对吗？

This compassion that this man had.

这个人有这种同情心。

And if he had only reached out to me, I'm sure he had better friends than me.

如果他只联系我，我相信他有比我更好的朋友。

But like I would have gone up in a second, you know, I went to the motel where he took his life when I was writing my book, just to put me back in, like try.

但就像我会立刻上去一样，你知道，当我写书时，我去了他自杀的汽车旅馆，只是为了让我回去，就像尝试一样。

How could I comprehend it?

我怎么能理解它呢？

I couldn't.

我不能。

I just cried.

我刚刚哭了。

I sat in front of the hotel and I cried.

我坐在酒店门口，哭了。

But, no, I don't think we can understand it.

但是，不，我认为我们无法理解它。

But the eventual high wouldn't come and then a much more crashing low after we essentially had to retract it and were disconfirmed, as they say.

但正如他们所说，最终的高点不会到来，然后在我们不得不收回它并被否定之后，就会出现一个更加崩溃的低点。

Andrew Huberman: So you continued with the project?

Andrew Huberman：所以你继续这个项目了？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, I was at UCSD and I'd left Caltech.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，我在加州大学圣地亚哥分校，后来离开了加州理工学院。

Andrew Huberman: You get your job, you got this telescope down at the South Pole.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：你得到了你的工作，你在南极得到了这台望远镜。

How do you get to the South Pole?

你如何到达南极？

You fly to Chile and then you ride a bicycle?

你飞到智利然后骑自行车？

Dr. Brian Keating: You know, I never had the physique to get into the military, although I wanted to at one point, to be a pilot, actually.

布莱恩·基廷博士：你知道，我从来没有具备参军的体质，尽管我曾经一度想成为一名飞行员。

I wanted to go to the Air Force Academy like my stepfather did.

我想像继父一样去空军学院。

But I didn't have the physical...

但我没有体力...

I didn't have the HLP diet back then.

那时我没有 HLP 饮食。

But the point was you go on a military, it's the whole way, and you do it in seven days, eight days if you're lucky.

但重点是你要参军，这是全程的，你可以在七天内完成，如果幸运的话，八天就可以了。

Sometimes it could take three weeks due to the weather down there.

有时由于那里的天气原因可能需要三周的时间。

It's the most violent weather, most winds, turbulence, everything hostile.

这是最猛烈的天气，狂风，湍流，一切都充满敌意。

But it's a cakewalk compared to the explorers, Shackleton or Scott and of course Amundsen.

但与沙克尔顿、斯科特，当然还有阿蒙森等探险家相比，这只是小菜一碟。

So the quest to get to the South Pole first.

所以首先要到达南极点。

I should say for people that aren't familiar, Antarctica is the seventh continent, it's the last one to be discovered.

我应该对不熟悉的人说，南极洲是第七大洲，是最后一个被发现的大陆。

It was only really discovered, it was thought to be there because it was thought that to balance the continents in the Northern Hemisphere you needed a massive counterweight in the Southern, it's so stupid.

它只是真正被发现，人们认为它在那里，因为人们认为为了平衡北半球的大陆，你需要在南半球有一个巨大的平衡物，这太愚蠢了。

But anyway, it wasn't discovered till the 1900s really that they truly existed and then it wasn't explored until 10 or 12 years later.

但无论如何，直到 1900 年代才发现它们确实存在，直到 10 或 12 年后才被探索。

And the quest to get to the South Pole, it was the last unexplored non-filled-in part of the map of the Earth.

到达南极点的任务是地球地图上最后一个未探索的未填充部分。

So the quest to get there was like going to the moon.

因此，到达那里就像去月球一样。

And in fact it exactly parallels the moon in that once it was reached for the first time, nobody cared to go back again for many, many years.

事实上，它与月球完全平行，因为一旦第一次到达月球，很多年以来都没有人愿意再回去。

And we're only going back to the moon now, 60 years later, 50 years later, after the Neil Armstrong and the Apollo 11 missions, right?

我们现在才会重返月球，60 年后、50 年后，在尼尔·阿姆斯特朗和阿波罗 11 号任务之后，对吧？

So getting there and setting that bar right and making that accomplishment, sometimes that's the extent of it, like when you have the dopamine hit of being the first to get somewhere.

因此，到达那里并设定正确的标准并取得成就，有时这就是它的程度，就像当你第一个到达某个地方时，你会受到多巴胺的刺激。

Scott was a British scientist and an explorer, and Amundsen was just an explorer.

斯科特是一位英国科学家和探险家，而阿蒙森只是一位探险家。

Amundsen ruled.

阿蒙森统治。

Amundsen, he tried to get to the North Pole first.

阿蒙森，他试图先到达北极。

He lost.

他输了。

Somebody else beat him.

别人打败了他。

And he said, well, I'm going to keep going with these skis and sled dog team that I have.

他说，好吧，我将继续与我拥有的这些滑雪板和雪橇犬团队一起前进。

And he literally went to the South Pole, 180 degrees around.

他确实到达了 180 度的南极点。

So the poles are the two endpoints of the Earth's axis of rotation.

所以两极是地球自转轴的两个端点。

There's a North Pole.

有一个北极。

There's no land there, there's no continent there.

那里没有陆地，那里没有大陆。

There's ice there and Santa is there.

那里有冰，圣诞老人也在那里。

Andrew Huberman: Exactly, right.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：完全正确。

Dr. Brian Keating: And then the South Pole is a continent.

布莱恩·基廷博士：那么南极就是一个大陆。

If you go, I brought a piece of it here that I collected, probably illegally from Antarctica.

如果你去的话，我带来了一块我收集的东西，可能是从南极洲非法收集的。

I'll show it to you later.

稍后我会展示给你。

It's just rocks, right?

这只是石头，对吧？

So if you drill under the ice in Antarctica, you come to a continent, and that's the difference between the North and South Poles.

因此，如果你在南极洲的冰层下钻探，你就会来到一片大陆，这就是北极和南极之间的差异。

But the South Pole is 700 nautical miles from the coast of Antarctica.

但南极距南极洲海岸700海里。

The closest point of approach in the 1900s was you take a ship from New Zealand, you sail due south.

在 1900 年代，最接近的方法是从新西兰乘船，向正南航行。

There's no other way to go.

没有其他路可走。

And you come to the continental shelf.

你来到了大陆架。

The coastline is called McMurdo Station, which was just, you know, basically there's some sea lions there and that's it.

海岸线被称为麦克默多站，基本上那里有一些海狮，仅此而已。

And orcas and penguins and nothing else at that time.

当时除了逆戟鲸和企鹅之外什么也没有。

Now there's a whole research station.

现在有一个完整的研究站。

And then they got on skis and skied up 9,000 feet from sea level, to 9,000 feet, where the polar plateau flattens out.

然后他们穿上滑雪板，从海平面上升 9,000 英尺，到达极地高原平坦的 9,000 英尺。

And they got to the South Pole and Amundsen got there three weeks before Scott.

他们到达南极点，阿蒙森比斯科特早三周到达那里。

And Scott was this British naturalist and like a Darwin, but also he was a scientist plus an explorer.

斯科特是一位英国博物学家，就像达尔文一样，但他也是一位科学家和探险家。

So he wanted to collect samples.

所以他想要采集样本。

And he found flora and fauna.

他发现了动植物群。

There's not much.

没有太多。

Rocks, meteorites.

岩石、陨石。

He actually discovered meteorites in Antarctica.

他实际上在南极洲发现了陨石。

Incredible scientist, but because he was a scientist, it cost him his life because he was carrying all this scientific equipment and scientific samples, and he had to ski up them, like he would find it.

令人难以置信的科学家，但因为他是一名科学家，所以他付出了生命的代价，因为他携带了所有这些科学设备和科学样本，而他必须滑雪，就像他会找到它们一样。

And he's like, I'm not coming back the same way that he got there because of the wind patterns and stuff.

他说，由于风向和其他因素，我不会按照他到达那里的方式回来。

So he knew he'd never come back, so he couldn't leave it there.

所以他知道他再也不会回来了，所以他不能把它留在那里。

So he had to carry extra food, fuel and men dedicated to it.

所以他必须携带额外的食物、燃料和专门的人员。

Oh, and by the way, the Norwegian team, Amundsen was Norwegian, and they used sled dogs for two reasons.

哦，对了，挪威队，阿蒙森是挪威人，他们使用雪橇犬有两个原因。

One, they conserved calories, they provided propulsion, and then they provided a tasty snack once you got to the South Pole.

第一，它们节省卡路里，提供推进力，然后在您到达南极后为您提供美味的小吃。

Because once you get to the South Pole, you can ski downhill 9,000 feet to sea level, basically.

因为一旦你到达南极点，基本上你就可以滑雪下坡 9,000 英尺到海平面。

And so they ate them.

于是他们就把它们吃了。

The British would refuse to do that, so they knew they couldn't eat their dogs.

英国人会拒绝这样做，所以他们知道他们不能吃他们的狗。

And they had dogs, but they wouldn't eat them.

他们也有狗，但他们不吃它们。

So they were the sled dogs.

所以他们是雪橇犬。

And when they got to the South Pole, they came within three or four kilometers and it's totally flat like this table.

当他们到达南极点时，距离南极点只有三四公里，那里完全像这张桌子一样平坦。

The South Pole looks like this.

南极看起来像这样。

Go out in the middle of the ocean, freeze it, paint it white.

到海洋中央去，把它冻结，把它漆成白色。

And that's what it looks like.

这就是它看起来的样子。

It's white.

它是白色的。

Hundred, you know, 360 degrees around.

一百个，你知道，360 度。

Okay?

好的？

It's the most boring place on Earth, literally.

从字面上看，这是地球上最无聊的地方。

And I've been there.

我也去过那里。

He got within, so you can see things really far away.

他进去了，所以你可以看到很远的地方。

He got there, he got within 3 kilometers and he saw something on the horizon.

他到了那里，距离不到 3 公里，他看到地平线上有东西。

He's like, oh, you know, bleep.

他就像，哦，你知道，哔哔声。

And it was a Norwegian flag.

那是一面挪威国旗。

Now, can you imagine Neil Armstrong steps out of, you know, the Eagle and he lands on a Soviet flag.

现在，你能想象尼尔·阿姆斯特朗走出鹰号，降落在苏联国旗上吗？

I mean, it would be the most crushing.

我的意思是，这将是最令人崩溃的。

It was the most, I think, the most depressing moment in human history to come so far.

我认为，这是迄今为止人类历史上最令人沮丧的时刻。

And he actually said, they said, great God, this is a horrible place.

他实际上说，他们说，伟大的上帝，这是一个可怕的地方。

And all the more so for having reached it without the benefit of priority.

更何况是在没有优先权的情况下达到了这一目标。

So the king and queen, they were depending on him to make the first, you know, for, you know, king and country, right, that seeing the Norwegian flag.

所以国王和王后，他们依靠他来创造第一个，你知道，因为，你知道，国王和国家，对，看到挪威国旗。

So what did he do?

那么他做了什么？

He was a good scientist.

他是一位优秀的科学家。

He said, maybe they made a mistake.

他说，也许他们犯了一个错误。

Maybe they're off by 10 feet, I can say, right, the Norwegians got there first.

也许他们偏离了 10 英尺，我可以说，是的，挪威人先到了那里。

And because he got there three weeks later, in the middle of January, by the time he turned around, the winds had died down.

因为他三周后到达那里，也就是一月中旬，当他转身时，风已经停了。

They were no longer at his back.

他们不再在他身后。

He was skiing, he had no food.

他正在滑雪，他没有食物。

He died about three weeks later or three months later in March.

大约三周后或三个月后的三月，他去世了。

So his body was later recovered and it was, you know, it wasn't reported back to England for another six months.

所以他的尸体后来被找到，而且，你知道，又过了六个月才将其报告回英国。

So they gave their lives for science, for discovery, and to come up short, to be second.

因此，他们为科学、为发现献出了自己的生命，但也只为了屈居第二。

It must have been the most crushing defeat in history.

这一定是历史上最惨重的失败。

Andrew Huberman: Whoa!

安德鲁·休伯曼：哇！

Dr. Brian Keating: But it happens to be the best place to do astronomy in the world.

布莱恩·基廷博士：但它恰好是世界上进行天文学研究的最佳场所。

Andrew Huberman: And you get there by flying?

Andrew Huberman：你乘飞机到达那里吗？

Yeah, get there by Santiago, Chile?

是的，从智利圣地亚哥到达那里？

Dr. Brian Keating: No, first you, first you go to Christchurch, New Zealand.

Brian Keating 博士：不，首先你先去新西兰基督城。

You go to Auckland.

你去奥克兰。

LAX, Auckland, Auckland to Christchurch.

洛杉矶国际机场、奥克兰、奥克兰到基督城。

And then the US has a charter with the New Zealand Air Force, and we give them C130 cargo planes or C17s.

然后美国与新西兰空军签订了包机协议，我们向他们提供 C130 货机或 C17。

We have our own C17 cargo planes, the jet-powered ones.

我们有自己的C17货机，喷气动力货机。

Unfortunately, I got the C130, which is a four-prop plane and I was on a plane that had the entire winter supply of bananas on this cargo plane which is as big as this room.

不幸的是，我买的是 C130，这是一架四螺旋桨飞机，我乘坐的飞机上有整个冬季供应的香蕉，这架货机和这个房间一样大。

This is the cargo hold, you know, 12 by 12 or the, you know, 10, it's 50 feet long and it was filled with bananas.

这是货舱，你知道，12×12，或者，你知道，10，长 50 英尺，里面装满了香蕉。

And at first you're like, oh cool, this is great.

一开始你会想，哦酷，这太棒了。

Until you realize there's no bathroom on the plane.

直到你意识到飞机上没有卫生间。

There's just literally a five-gallon bucket and a shower curtain.

实际上只有一个五加仑的水桶和浴帘。

There are no windows on it because why do paratroopers need windows?

上面没有窗户，为什么伞兵需要窗户？

And then there's enormous crates of bananas.

然后还有巨大的香蕉箱。

There's 12 tons of bananas.

有12吨香蕉。

I have not touched a banana in 12 years because of that.

因此，我已经 12 年没有碰过香蕉了。

Now I'm missing potassium or whatever.

现在我缺钾什么的。

But the point is you land on the coast and then if you're lucky, you take a flight the next day and it's a ski plane.

但重点是你降落在海岸上，如果幸运的话，你第二天就可以乘坐滑雪飞机。

It's the only plane that the US does not export.

这是美国唯一不出口的飞机。

In other words, we export the F35...

换句话说，我们出口F35……

this is a strategic asset that we will not export.

这是我们不会出口的战略资产。

Andrew Huberman: It's hard to get to.

Andrew Huberman：很难到达。

Dr. Brian Keating: It's very difficult.

Brian Keating 博士：这非常困难。

Andrew Huberman: So why the South Pole?

安德鲁·休伯曼：那为什么是南极呢？

And does this take us into the realm of light pollution?

这是否会将我们带入光污染的领域？

Dr. Brian Keating: Right.

布莱恩·基廷博士： 是的。

Andrew Huberman: I mean, when I look up at the starry night here in Los Angeles, even though I'm sort of back towards the eastern hills, I don't live at the coast.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，当我抬头仰望洛杉矶的星夜时，即使我有点回到东部山区，但我并不住在海岸。

I can see some pretty impressive stars.

我可以看到一些令人印象深刻的明星。

Not as impressive as when I highly recommend people get up to the Yosemite high country in the month of August.

不像我强烈建议人们在八月份去优胜美地高地时那么令人印象深刻。

You can catch some great meteor showers.

你可以看到一些很棒的流星雨。

It's an amazing place.

这是一个很棒的地方。

To begin with, you have the meteor showers and you're transported to another place and there's a lot of light pollution from cities and it travels very, very far.

首先，你会看到流星雨，然后你会被传送到另一个地方，那里有很多来自城市的光污染，而且它会传播到非常非常远的地方。

So I'm guessing you're down the South Pole because there's less light pollution.

所以我猜你在南极，因为那里的光污染较少。

Dr. Brian Keating: You're right.

布莱恩·基廷博士：你是对的。

A slight deviation from that is it's not light that we're looking for.

与此略有不同的是，我们寻找的不是光。

We're not looking for optical light, we're looking for heat.

我们不是在寻找光，我们是在寻找热。

So it's heat pollution.

所以这是热污染。

You're exactly right.

你说得完全正确。

We're looking to avoid heat pollution.

我们正在努力避免热污染。

So we want to be somewhere cold, we want to be somewhere that's far away from, you know, manmade sources of RF interference and microwave interference and communications obviously.

所以我们想要去一个寒冷的地方，我们想要去一个远离人造射频干扰源、微波干扰源和明显的通信源的地方。

But the South Pole has a couple of other properties.

但南极还有其他一些特性。

One, the sun is below the horizon and the sun is 5500 Kelvin.

一、太阳位于地平线以下，太阳温度为5500开尔文。

And we're looking for something that's a fraction of a Kelvin, maybe a few milli- or nano-Kelvin at most.

我们正在寻找开尔文的一小部分，最多可能是几毫开尔文或纳开尔文。

So it's billions of times that we want to avoid.

所以这是我们想要避免的数十亿次。

Even the Earth itself is still 300, almost 300 Kelvin down there.

甚至地球本身的温度也仍然是 300 开尔文，接近 300 开尔文。

Yeah, freezing is 273, so it does have that property.

是的，冰点是 273，所以它确实有这个特性。

But the best part about it, it's above a lot of the Earth's atmosphere because at 9,000 feet above sea level and it's so cold.

但最好的部分是，它位于地球大气层的大部分之上，因为海拔 9,000 英尺，而且非常寒冷。

You don't know this because you're a California baby, but on the East Coast when I would grow up, some days the bane of my existence would be you'd listen on the radio and they'd announce school closures due to snowfall in the winter.

你不知道这一点，因为你是加州的婴儿，但在东海岸，当我长大时，有时我的存在的祸根是你会在广播中听到他们宣布学校因冬天下雪而停课。

And sometimes they'd say, oh, you're out of luck because it's too cold to snow.

有时他们会说，哦，你运气不好，因为天气太冷了，不能下雪。

Sometimes the air temperature cannot saturate and form precipitation.

有时气温无法饱和并形成降水。

And the South Pole is like that.

南极就是这样。

It's so cold that if you took this glass, I'm holding a glass here and it was empty on the table here.

天气太冷了，如果你拿了这个杯子，我在这里拿着一个杯子，而这里的桌子上是空的。

And I extend this glass up to outer space, the amount of water, if I took all the water in the atmosphere, the humidity in the atmosphere above the South Pole and condensed it into a liquid, it would be 0.3 of a millimeter.

我把这个玻璃延伸到外太空，水的量，如果我把大气中所有的水，南极上空大气中的湿度，凝结成液体，那就是0.3毫米。

Here in Los Angeles it's about an inch or, you know, 25 millimeters or more.

在洛杉矶，它大约是一英寸，或者，你知道，25 毫米或更多。

And so you'd like to not go there.

所以你不想去那里。

Now why is that important?

为什么这很重要？

Well, water absorbs microwaves and that's how your microwave oven works.

嗯，水会吸收微波，这就是微波炉的工作原理。

It heats up the water molecules, they start to vibrate and jumble, that causes friction, they heat up and eventually they'll boil.

它加热水分子，它们开始振动和混乱，从而引起摩擦，它们升温并最终沸腾。

Right.

正确的。

So that's why sometimes you can, you know, overheat, you know, liquid in a microwave — you can't tell, but it's super hot.

所以这就是为什么有时你可以，你知道，微波炉中的液体过热——你无法分辨，但它非常热。

And actually it can be dangerous.

事实上这可能很危险。

But in this case, we don't want a photon coming from the big bang perhaps, or before the big bang with the spark that ignited it.

但在这种情况下，我们不希望光子来自大爆炸，或者在大爆炸之前带有点燃它的火花。

We don't want that to travel for 14 billion years nearly and then get absorbed in a water molecule above the Earth's surface.

我们不希望它传播近 140 亿年，然后被地球表面上方的水分子吸收。

So the best place to go is space.

所以最好的去处是太空。

But space, even with, you know, SpaceX, and I haven't done any scientific experiments, but it's about maybe a factor of 1,000 to a million times more expensive.

但是太空，即使有 SpaceX，我也没有做过任何科学实验，但它的成本可能要高出 1000 到 100 万倍。

So the same satellite that we were worried was going to scoop us was exactly 100 or almost 200 times more expensive than our experiment at the South Pole.

因此，我们担心的那颗卫星会比我们在南极进行的实验贵 100 倍或几乎 200 倍。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I was going to ask you about this.

Andrew Huberman：是的，我正想问你这个问题。

A million dollars given to a postdoc.

给博士后一百万美元。

Dr. Brian Keating: That was the first tranche of funding.

Brian Keating 博士：这是第一笔资金。

We ended up getting about 10 million.

我们最终得到了大约1000万。

Andrew Huberman: Ten million.

安德鲁·休伯曼：一千万。

I mean, even $10 million is a lot of money by any standard, but to my mind, doesn't seem like enough money to build a high-powered telescope at the South Pole, bring people there, have the infrastructure.

我的意思是，无论以任何标准衡量，即使 1000 万美元也是一大笔钱，但在我看来，这似乎不足以在南极建造一座高倍望远镜、将人员带到那里并拥有基础设施。

I mean, it's not like you're rolling this thing out onto the ice and just pointing at the sky.

我的意思是，这并不是说你把这个东西滚到冰上然后指向天空。

I mean, you need.

我的意思是，你需要。

No, it's true, I mean, I guess you could use the bucket from the plane as a bathroom, but you need a number of things.

不，这是真的，我的意思是，我想你可以使用飞机上的水桶作为浴室，但你需要很多东西。

So you probably need hundreds of millions of dollars to build a facility down at the South Pole.

因此，您可能需要数亿美元才能在南极建造一个设施。

Dr. Brian Keating: But those are all funded by you and your listeners, and so from the taxpayers.

布莱恩·基廷博士：但这些都是由你和你的听众资助的，因此也来自纳税人。

So the National Science Foundation operates, those C130s are part of the National Science Foundation's fleet.

因此，国家科学基金会在运作，这些 C130 是国家科学基金会机队的一部分。

We don't pay a dime for them.

我们不为他们支付一毛钱。

If I want to build a computer network system down there, we don't pay a dime for it.

如果我想在那里建立一个计算机网络系统，我们不花一毛钱。

It's actually a point of contention because now I'm no longer with that experiment.

这实际上是一个争论点，因为现在我不再参与那个实验了。

I've recused myself from it for many years.

我已经回避这个问题很多年了。

Not because of the incident where we were basically disconfirming, later disconfirmed our results.

不是因为我们基本上不确认的事件，后来又不确认我们的结果。

Andrew Huberman: So you let the results out.

Andrew Huberman：所以你公布了结果。

You do this news conference.

你主持这个新闻发布会。

Dr. Brian Keating: I didn't do the news conference.

Brian Keating 博士：我没有参加新闻发布会。

I was not invited.

我没有被邀请。

Andrew Huberman: Okay, so a press conference.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的，新闻发布会。

Big press conference.

大型新闻发布会。

Dr. Brian Keating: That's right.

布莱恩·基廷博士：没错。

Andrew Huberman: It turns and you know, fast forward some years, it turns out this was not correct.

安德鲁·休伯曼：事情发生了转变，你知道，快进几年，事实证明这是不正确的。

Dr. Brian Keating: Some months.

Brian Keating 博士：几个月。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, some only a few months.

Andrew Huberman：是的，有些只有几个月。

Well, better to be corrected quickly than, you know, and collect your Nobel Prize and have to like, give it back or something, I have to say, and the pursuit of prizes is a complicated thing.

嗯，最好是尽快纠正，你知道，获得诺贝尔奖后必须点赞、归还或其他什么，我不得不说，追求奖项是一件复杂的事情。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: I was always discouraged from pursuing prizes.

Andrew Huberman：我总是对追求奖项感到灰心。

All my advice.

我所有的建议。

Well, my graduate advisor was very pure in the sense that she just liked doing experiments.

嗯，我的研究生导师非常纯粹，因为她只是喜欢做实验。

I remember she was very, very smart.

我记得她非常非常聪明。

Very smart.

非常聪明。

Barbara Chapman.

芭芭拉·查普曼。

I mean, when, and you know, it's not just her pedigree that is evidence of that, but since pedigree is something most people can at least understand internally and externally.

我的意思是，你知道，这不仅仅是她的血统证明，而且因为血统是大多数人至少可以从内部和外部理解的东西。

I mean, she was, you know, went to Harvard as an undergraduate, then she was at UCSF and Caltech.

我的意思是，你知道，她本科就读于哈佛大学，然后又在加州大学旧金山分校和加州理工学院就读。

And she actually had a project sending zebra fish up into space.

她实际上有一个将斑马鱼送入太空的项目。

Looking at, yeah, looking at development.

看着，是的，看着发展。

The vestibular system in the absence of gravity.

前庭系统在没有重力的情况下。

Dr. Brian Keating: Wow.

布莱恩·基廷博士：哇。

Andrew Huberman: And then fixing these specimens and bringing them back also did a lot of great work back on Earth.

安德鲁·休伯曼：然后修复这些标本并将它们带回地球也做了很多伟大的工作。

But she wasn't somebody who was ambitious for ambition's sake.

但她并不是一个为了野心而野心勃勃的人。

And my postdoc advisor was exceedingly ambitious, but he also discouraged prizes and the pursuit of prizes.

我的博士后导师非常雄心勃勃，但他也不鼓励奖项和对奖项的追求。

Dr. Brian Keating: That's the right way to be.

Brian Keating 博士：这才是正确的做法。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I think that it's sort of like going into football to get a Super Bowl ring.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我认为这有点像进入橄榄球界以获得超级碗戒指。

These things do represent the pinnacle, but it's dangerous to be chasing that, like, singular carrot because you can miss the journey.

这些东西确实代表了顶峰，但追逐单一胡萝卜是危险的，因为你可能会错过旅程。

Dr. Brian Keating: Look, I'm not proud of that.

Brian Keating 博士：听着，我并不为此感到自豪。

I'm not proud that I had such a base, venal, you know, kind of pursuit.

我并不为自己有如此卑鄙、唯利是图的追求而感到自豪。

I think it was, as I said, compounded by psychological factors, you know.

正如我所说，我认为这是由心理因素造成的，你知道。

Andrew Huberman: But did you have fun doing the work?

安德鲁·休伯曼：但是你的工作很有趣吗？

Dr. Brian Keating: Oh, I loved it.

Brian Keating 博士：哦，我喜欢它。

Yeah.

是的。

I mean, getting to do what I do now.

我的意思是，开始做我现在正在做的事情。

And now it's even, even more exciting in a sense, because the project....

现在，从某种意义上说，它甚至更令人兴奋，因为该项目......

and by the way, it's not like we made a blunder and like Rob hopefully took the lens cap off the camera.

顺便说一句，这并不是说我们犯了一个错误，也不像罗布希望把镜头盖从相机上取下来。

We didn't make a blunder like that.

我们没有犯这样的错误。

There have been many, many blunders and actually led to much worse retractions.

有很多很多错误，实际上导致了更糟糕的撤稿。

Our results are stronger than ever, I should say the BICEP team's results.

我们的结果比以往任何时候都更强劲，我应该说 BICEP 团队的结果。

I've left the team, as I said, but their results are still the very best by almost an order of magnitude.

正如我所说，我已经离开了团队，但他们的成绩仍然是最好的，几乎高了一个数量级。

We hope with the Simons Observatory, that I'm co-leading with colleagues at Princeton and Penn and other places, that we can actually supersede them, but we haven't yet.

我们希望西蒙斯天文台，我与普林斯顿大学、宾夕法尼亚大学和其他地方的同事共同领导，我们实际上可以取代他们，但我们还没有。

And so what we saw, I should be very clear.

所以我们看到了什么，我应该很清楚。

We didn't make a blunder.

我们没有犯错误。

We didn't see, like, put our thumb in front of the viewfinder.

我们没有看到，比如，将拇指放在取景器前面。

We didn't do something stupid.

我们没有做傻事。

We mistook a signal produced by another astrophysical source as representative of this curling pattern of microwaves for which BICEP was named.

我们误以为另一个天体物理源产生的信号代表了这种微波卷曲模式，BICEP 正是因此而得名。

That would be indicative, if confirmed, of the inflationary origin of the universe, which, by the way, would be concomitant with the existence of the multiverse.

如果得到证实，这将表明宇宙的暴涨起源，顺便说一句，这将与多元宇宙的存在同时存在。

So the stakes are really high.

所以赌注确实很高。

That means the incentives to make sure you detect that are really high too, and not get scooped, as happened many, many times.

这意味着确保您发现这些内容的动机也非常高，并且不会像很多很多次那样被抢先。

My advisor was scooped.

我的顾问被挖走了。

He never won the Nobel Prize.

他从未获得过诺贝尔奖。

Advisor's advisor.

顾问的顾问。

He never won the Nobel Prize.

他从未获得过诺贝尔奖。

These accidentally discovered, serendipitously discovered astronomers Penzias and Wilson, they did win the Nobel Prize, so there is a pressure on scientists to get there first, like Robert Scott, getting to the South Pole first.

这些偶然发现的、偶然发现的天文学家彭齐亚斯和威尔逊，他们确实获得了诺贝尔奖，所以科学家们有一个压力，要先到达那里，就像罗伯特·斯科特一样，先到达南极点。

There is a benefit to priority.

优先权有一个好处。

It's just a fact of life.

这只是生活的一个事实。

And science is no different.

科学也不例外。

We teach undergraduates about seven or eight different experiments.

我们教本科生七八种不同的实验。

All of them won the Nobel Prize at some point in physics history.

他们都曾在物理学史上的某个时刻获得过诺贝尔奖。

Doesn't mean they aren't going to win a Nobel Prize.

并不意味着他们不会赢得诺贝尔奖。

No. Why?

不，为什么？

Because they didn't get there first.

因为他们不是第一个到达那里的。

So getting there first in science, that's for better or for worse, is the sign of greatest accomplishments.

因此，在科学领域取得第一，无论好坏，都是最伟大成就的标志。

The sine qua non of accomplishment is that does lead to Nobel Prizes.

成就的必要条件是获得诺贝尔奖。

Andrew Huberman: Now, the goal is always.

Andrew Huberman：现在，目标始终是。

I have a motto which is go as fast as you carefully can.

我有一句座右铭，那就是小心翼翼地走得尽可能快。

But it sounds like you were wrong for the right reasons.

但听起来你错了，原因是正确的。

Meaning no one made up data.

这意味着没有人编造数据。

There was a confound that you weren't aware of.

有一个你不知道的困惑。

You became aware of it.

你意识到了这一点。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, I should say.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，我应该说。

What we saw, what we mistook as the imprimatur of this origin spark of the universe, was the humblest substance in the universe, namely dust.

我们所看到的、被我们误以为是宇宙本源火花的认可的，是宇宙中最卑微的物质，即尘埃。

So when a star explodes, it produces after its lifetime has expired, it fuses lighter elements into heavier elements.

因此，当一颗恒星爆炸时，它会在其寿命到期后将较轻的元素融合成较重的元素。

Eventually it gets to produce iron.

最终它可以生产铁。

And iron is the element for which once it's fused together from I think it's silicon or two nuclei before it, it produces too little energy to keep the star buoyant and expanded.

铁是一种元素，一旦它与硅或它前面的两个原子核融合在一起，它产生的能量就太少了，无法保持恒星的浮力和膨胀。

And so the star immediately starts to collapse.

所以恒星立即开始坍缩。

When that collapse occurs, it blasts out into the interstellar medium that surrounds it, all the byproducts, the silicon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen and the iron.

当坍缩发生时，它会爆炸到周围的星际介质中，所有副产品，硅，氮，氧，氢和铁。

And it blasts it out into the universe surrounding it.

然后它会将其喷射到周围的宇宙中。

And that happens enough times in our galaxy that the galaxy is actually a pretty polluted place.

这种情况在我们的银河系中发生过很多次，银河系实际上是一个污染严重的地方。

It's smoggy, it's dusty, it's dirty, and the dust is actually little microscopic meteorites.

烟雾缭绕，尘土飞扬，肮脏不堪，而这些灰尘实际上是微小的微观陨石。

So on my website, briankeating.com, I give away, actually I have a special link, briankeating.com/huberman, I will give away actual meteorites that come from your ancestral homeland of Argentina.

所以在我的网站 briankeating.com 上，我会赠送，实际上我有一个特殊的链接，briankeating.com/huberman，我将赠送来自您祖籍阿根廷的实际陨石。

And you'll see when you get them.

当你得到它们时你就会看到。

They're highly magnetic, they're very dense.

它们具有很强的磁性，而且非常致密。

And I give you the material, the composition of these meteorites and the assay, we do X-ray crystallography on them.

我给你这些陨石的材料、成分和分析方法，我们对它们进行 X 射线晶体学分析。

It's really cool.

真的很酷。

The actual composition of them is determined by this last event that a star does before it dies, which is to produce iron.

它们的实际成分取决于恒星死亡前的最后一个事件，即产生铁。

So we did discover a microwave signal from the galaxy, not from the big bang, not from the cosmos, but from a particular and unique to our galaxy, which is that when a star explodes, it produces this material, mostly made of iron.

所以我们确实发现了来自银河系的微波信号，不是来自大爆炸，不是来自宇宙，而是来自我们银河系的一个特殊且独特的信号，那就是当一颗恒星爆炸时，它会产生这种材料，主要由铁制成。

These micrometeorites that I talked about, put on my website for your listeners, and these micrometeorites are also going to act like little compass needles.

我谈到的这些微陨石，放在我的网站上供你们的听众使用，这些微陨石也会像小罗盘针一样起作用。

They're highly magnetically susceptible.

它们对磁性非常敏感。

So the Milky Way, everything in the universe has a magnetic field.

所以银河系，宇宙中的一切都有磁场。

You have a magnetic field, Birds have it, even magneto bacteria can have it.

你有磁场，鸟类有，甚至磁细菌也有。

And our planet obviously has it, and the galaxy has it.

我们的星球显然有它，银河系也有。

What happens when you put a compass in a magnetic field?

将指南针放入磁场中会发生什么？

Those needles get aligned with the magnetic field that then produces a type of polarization.

这些针与磁场对齐，然后产生一种极化。

Now, polarization is the least familiar.

现在，两极分化是人们最不熟悉的。

Light has three characteristics.

光具有三个特性。

Its intensity, its color or spectrum, and its polarization.

它的强度、颜色或光谱以及偏振。

Almost nobody knows what polarization is, but it's really the essence of what makes light a wave.

几乎没有人知道偏振是什么，但这确实是光成为波的本质。

If you think about an ocean wave, the ocean wave is going up and down, undulating up and down, and the undulation, the direction perpendicular to the sea surface is...

如果你想象一下海浪，海浪是上下起伏，上下起伏，而起伏，垂直于海面的方向是......

its sort of, its polarization happens to be that water waves are actually polarized longitudinally.

它的那种，它的偏振恰好是水波实际上是纵向偏振的。

But forget that, or if you and I separated by a meter and a half, two meters, we have a rope between us.

但请忘记这一点，或者如果你和我相距一米半、两米，我们之间就有一根绳子。

If we oscillate that rope up and down at a certain frequency, the frequency would be the spectrum, the color of the light.

如果我们以一定的频率上下振动绳子，该频率就是光谱，即光的颜色。

How hard we do that would be the intensity of the light.

我们做到这一点的努力程度将取决于光的强度。

And the plane that we're oscillating, the jump rope or whatever, that's the plane of polarization.

我们振荡的平面，跳绳或其他什么，那就是偏振面。

These little needles of cosmic dust from the exploded innards of a star that died to, you know, in our galaxy many years ago.

这些小针状的宇宙尘埃来自一颗恒星内部爆炸，这颗恒星多年前就在我们的银河系中消亡了。

And many, many billions of these stars, they produce these, these particles of dust.

还有数十亿个这样的恒星，它们产生这些尘埃颗粒。

So we saw that pattern instead of seeing the birth pangs of the big bang, the origin of the universe.

所以我们看到的是这种模式，而不是看到宇宙起源大爆炸的阵痛。

Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and thank one of our sponsors, ROKA.

Andrew Huberman：我想稍微休息一下，并感谢我们的赞助商之一 ROKA。

ROKA makes eyeglasses and sunglasses that are of the absolute highest quality.

ROKA 生产绝对最高品质的眼镜和太阳镜。

I've been wearing ROKA readers and sunglasses for years now and I love them.

我多年来一直戴着 ROKA 阅读器和太阳镜，我很喜欢它们。

They're lightweight, they have superb optics, and they have lots of frames to choose from.

它们重量轻，具有出色的光学性能，并且有多种镜框可供选择。

I'm excited to share that ROKA and I have teamed up to create a new style of red lens glasses.

我很高兴地告诉大家，我和 ROKA 联手打造了一款新型红色镜片眼镜。

These red lens glasses are meant to be worn in the evening after the sun goes down.

这些红色镜片的眼镜适合在晚上太阳落山后佩戴。

They filter out short wavelength light that comes from screens and from LED lights, the sorts of LED lights that are most commonly used as overhead and frankly, lamp lighting nowadays.

它们过滤掉来自屏幕和 LED 灯的短波长光，这些 LED 灯目前最常用作头顶灯，坦率地说，是灯照明。

I want to emphasize ROKA red lens glasses are not traditional blue blockers.

我想强调的是，ROKA 红色镜片眼镜不是传统的防蓝光眼镜。

They're not designed to be worn during the day and to filter out blue light from screen light.

它们的设计目的不是为了在白天佩戴，也不是为了滤除屏幕光中的蓝光。

They're designed to prevent the full range of wavelengths that suppress melatonin secretion at night and that can alter your sleep.

它们的设计目的是防止各种波长抑制夜间褪黑激素的分泌，从而改变您的睡眠。

So by wearing ROKA red lens glasses, they help you calm down and they improve your transition to sleep.

因此，佩戴 ROKA 红色镜片眼镜可以帮助您平静下来，并改善您入睡的过渡。

Most nights I stay up until about 10 p.m.

大多数晚上我都会熬夜到晚上 10 点左右。

or even midnight, and I wake up between 5 and 7 a.m., depending on when I went to sleep.

甚至半夜，我会在凌晨 5 点到 7 点之间醒来，具体取决于我入睡的时间。

Now, I put my ROKA red lens glasses on as soon as it gets dark outside.

现在，外面天一黑我就戴上我的ROKA红镜片眼镜。

And I've noticed a much easier transition to sleep, which makes sense based on everything we know about how filtering out short wavelengths of light can allow your brain to function correctly.

我注意到进入睡眠的过渡要容易得多，根据我们所知道的有关过滤短波长光如何让大脑正常运作的一切知识，这是有道理的。

ROKA red lens glasses also look cool, frankly.

坦白说，ROKA 红镜片眼镜看起来也很酷。

You can wear them out to dinner or to concerts or out with friends.

您可以穿着它们去参加晚宴、音乐会或与朋友外出。

So it turns out it is indeed possible to support your biology, to be scientific about it, and to remain social.

所以事实证明，确实有可能支持你的生物学，使其科学化，并保持社交性。

After all, if you'd like to try ROKA, go to roka.com, that's R-O-K-A.com, and enter the code HUBERMAN to save 20% off your first order.

毕竟，如果您想尝试 ROKA，请访问 roka.com，即 R-O-K-A.com，然后输入代码 HUBERMAN，即可在首次订单时享受 20% 的折扣。

Again, that's R-O-K-A.com and enter the code Huberman at checkout.

再次强调，这是 R-O-K-A.com，并在结账时输入代码 Huberman。

So I want to talk about what you're working on now before I do that.

因此，在此之前我想先谈谈您现在正在做的事情。

Yeah, right.

是的，对。

It's been a mini-segue.

这是一场迷你连续剧。

There are a number of questions that I have that some of which I sort of know the answers to, most of which I don't know the answers to.

我有很多问题，其中一些我知道答案，但大多数我不知道答案。

But I think a lot of people either wonder about or if they don't, they can quickly enrich their experience of daily life if we were to get answers on the following.

但我认为很多人要么想知道，要么不知道，如果我们得到以下问题的答案，他们可以很快丰富他们的日常生活经验。

So I'm thinking about this.

所以我正在考虑这个问题。

Not rapid-fire Q and A, but maybe like one-to-three-minute answers about the following.

不是快速问答，而是可能对以下问题进行一到三分钟的回答。

For instance, why does the moon look so much bigger when it's near the horizon as opposed to overhead?

例如，为什么月亮在接近地平线时看起来比在头顶上时看起来大得多？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, my son asked me that two days ago.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，我儿子两天前问过我这个问题。

Andrew Huberman: So that's a fun one.

Andrew Huberman：所以这是一件有趣的事情。

So let's go first with that.

那么我们先来说说这个。

Sometimes the moon is huge, sometimes the moon is small.

有时月亮很大，有时月亮很小。

And I'm not talking about when it's full versus a sliver.

我不是在谈论什么时候它是满的，什么时候是条的。

Tell us why.

告诉我们原因。

Dr. Brian Keating: So the moon is always a half a degree wide, the same exact apparent angular diameter as the sun, which is unique.

布赖恩·基廷博士：所以月球总是有半度宽，与太阳的视角直径完全相同，这是独一无二的。

Among the 290 moons in our solar system, only our moon has the same apparent diameter as seen from its planet as the sun does.

在太阳系的 290 颗卫星中，只有月​​球的表观直径与太阳相同。

Meaning we're the only planet that can have a total solar eclipse.

这意味着我们是唯一可以发生日全食的行星。

An exact total solar eclipse like we had a couple months ago in Austin, Texas, and elsewhere.

就像几个月前在德克萨斯州奥斯汀和其他地方发生的日全食一样。

Be that as it may, the moon doesn't change in size.

尽管如此，月亮的大小并没有改变。

Andrew Huberman: I would hope not.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我希望不会。

Yeah, that would freak me out.

是的，那会让我害怕。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

The moon is about 60 times the Earth's radius from the Earth.

月球距地球的半径约为地球半径的60倍。

It's 250,000 miles away, which is about 1 1/2 light seconds away.

它距离我们 250,000 英里，大约是 1 1/2 光秒。

And it is about the size of the continental US in diameter, or a little bit less.

它的直径大约相当于美国大陆的大小，或者更小一些。

So the moon's size doesn't change.

所以月球的大小不会改变。

But when the human eye has something to compare it to, the brain has a reference point to compare it to.

但是，当人眼有可比较的东西时，大脑就有了可比较的参考点。

And because it's so big, if there's something in front of it, a 747, a person, a large building, even when you were, if the moon is behind that object because it's so far away, moving, even the Earth's entire radius doesn't change the moon's apparent angular diameter.

因为它太大了，如果它前面有什么东西，比如一架 747、一个人、一栋大楼，即使你在，如果月球在那个物体后面，因为它距离很远，移动，即使地球的整个半径也不会改变月球的视角直径。

It's the same in Peking as it is here, Beijing as it is in Los Angeles.

北京如此，这里如此，北京如此，洛杉矶如此。

Right.

正确的。

So that means a very small, a very large change in the distance in the Earth would change the building size dramatically, could reduce it to zero, basically.

因此，这意味着地球距离的一个非常小的、非常大的变化都会极大地改变建筑物的尺寸，基本上可以将其减小到零。

But when you compare it to something that's close on the horizon, your brain has something visually to compare it to.

但是，当你将它与地平线上附近的东西进行比较时，你的大脑就会在视觉上将其与之进行比较。

When it's overhead zenith or whatever, it doesn't have anything to compare it to.

当它处于头顶天顶或其他什么位置时，它没有任何东西可以与之比较。

So you're just looking at it.

所以你只是看着它。

But you can always measure it and you can prove to yourself it's always the same size.

但你总是可以测量它，并且可以向自己证明它的尺寸始终相同。

It's about the size of your pinky fingernail held at arm's length, same size as the sun.

它的大小大约是你一臂之遥的小指指甲的大小，与太阳的大小相同。

And interestingly enough, you said one degree.

有趣的是，你说的是一个学位。

It's half a degree.

已经是半度了

Andrew Huberman: Half a degree, half a degree.

安德鲁·休伯曼：半度，半度。

Oh, that's why you said pinky.

哦，这就是为什么你说小指。

So folks, most people probably aren't familiar with thinking in degrees.

所以各位，大多数人可能不熟悉度的思考。

If you want to understand a degree, put your right or left, doesn't matter, arm out in front of you, raise your thumb like a thumbs up.

如果你想了解一个度数，放你的右手或左手，没关系，手臂伸到你面前，像竖起大拇指一样举起你的拇指。

So the width of your thumb at arm's length is approximately one degree.

因此，拇指在手臂长度处的宽度大约为一度。

That's why you say for your pinky it's about half a degree.

这就是为什么你说你的小指大约是半度。

I should also say, and this is an opportunity to give a fun little lesson in visual acuity.

我还应该说，这是一个提供有关视力的有趣小课程的机会。

If I were to draw 30 black lines spaced from one another with just the light color of your nail in between them, we'd say there were 60 lines.

如果我要画 30 条彼此间隔的黑线，它们之间只有指甲的浅色，我们会说有 60 条线。

Black, nail black.

黑色，指甲黑。

Alternating your acuity for 2020 vision is approximately 60 cycles per degree.

2020 年视力的视力变化约为每度 60 个周期。

Yes, a hawk, any kind of raptor, is about 120 cycles per degree, which is why they can sit up on a lamppost and actually see the rustling of the grass below and probably make out some of the individual furs on the head of a rodent, but you can't.

是的，鹰，任何种类的猛禽，每度大约 120 个周期，这就是为什么它们可以坐在灯柱上，实际上看到下面草丛的沙沙声，并且可能辨认出啮齿类动物头上的一些单独的毛皮，但你不能。

So what do I mean by 60 cycles per degree?

那么每度 60 个周期是什么意思呢？

If I were to draw 40 black lines, now you have 80 total of black.

如果我画 40 条黑线，那么现在总共有 80 条黑线。

And then the color of the nail.

然后是指甲的颜色。

Black.

黑色的。

Then the color of the nail, you would see that as, believe it or not, as solid black.

然后是指甲的颜色，不管你信不信，你会看到它是纯黑色的。

Dr. Brian Keating: Right.

布莱恩·基廷博士： 是的。

Andrew Huberman: It's, you don't have, it's beyond your acuity threshold when you say one degree.

Andrew Huberman：是的，你没有，当你说一级时，它超出了你的敏锐度阈值。

So this is important.

所以这很重要。

So when the moon is "giant" at the horizon, put out your pinky.

所以当月亮在地平线上“巨大”时，伸出你的小指。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: It covers the moon.

安德鲁·休伯曼：它覆盖了月球。

Dr. Brian Keating: You can eclipse the moon.

布赖恩·基廷博士：你可以让月亮黯然失色。

Andrew Huberman: You can eclipse the moon.

安德鲁·休伯曼：你可以让月亮黯然失色。

When the moon is overhead, you can eclipse the moon with your pinky.

当月亮在头顶时，你可以用小指遮住月亮。

And most people probably thinking, no way, that can't be true.

大多数人可能会想，这不可能是真的。

But it's absolutely true.

但这绝对是真的。

Dr. Brian Keating: Fun fact.

Brian Keating 博士：有趣的事实。

Which is bigger, the width of a rainbow or the width of the moon?

彩虹的宽度和月亮的宽度哪个更大？

And is a rainbow wider than a half a degree?

彩虹宽度是否超​​过半度？

You ever see a rainbow?

你见过彩虹吗？

You can.

你可以。

Andrew Huberman: I mean, in the sky.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，在天空中。

It seems as.

看来是。

Dr. Brian Keating: I'm not talking about the arc, the band.

Brian Keating 博士：我不是在谈论弧线、乐队。

Red to blue.

红变蓝。

Andrew Huberman: Right.

安德鲁·休伯曼：对。

Dr. Brian Keating: Or from red.

Brian Keating 博士：或者是红色。

Andrew Huberman: ROYGBIV.

安德鲁·休伯曼：ROYGBIV。

Yeah, it's bigger.

是的，它更大了。

Gosh, Intuitively I want to say it's thicker, but now you're going to tell me that it can't be because it's.

天哪，直觉上我想说它更厚，但现在你要告诉我它不可能，因为它确实更厚。

This is like the Pink Floyd album, right?

这就像平克·弗洛伊德的专辑，对吧？

This is literally just the polar side of the moon, the dark side of the moon, the rainbow coming through when you take light and pass.

这实际上就是月球的极地，月球的阴暗面，当你接受光线并经过时会看到彩虹。

It's big.

它很大。

Yeah, I'm gonna say it's one.

是的，我会说这是一个。

It's one degree.

这是一个学位。

Dr. Brian Keating: So the rainbow's bigger?

Brian Keating 博士：那么彩虹更大吗？

Andrew Huberman: No, the moon's bigger.

安德鲁·休伯曼：不，月亮更大。

It seems like roughly the same size, but when I think of the rainbow, I just think of like the larger one.

看起来大小大致相同，但当我想到彩虹时，我只想到更大的彩虹。

Dr. Brian Keating: It's the same size.

Brian Keating 博士：大小相同。

It's the size of the sun.

它有太阳那么大。

It's a trick question.

这是一个棘手的问题。

Exactly.

确切地。

That's right.

这是正确的。

Andrew Huberman: Thank you very much.

安德鲁·休伯曼：非常感谢。

Dr. Brian Keating: There you go, professor passes the test.

Brian Keating 博士：好了，教授通过了测试。

Andrew Huberman: For once.

安德鲁·休伯曼：这一次。

Yeah.

是的。

Okay, next question.

好的，下一个问题。

People obsess over this.

人们对此着迷。

I have my theories.

我有我的理论。

I think it's still debated.

我认为这仍然存在争议。

When you watch a sunset, you get that beautiful long wavelength-short wavelength contrast that I blab about incessantly on the podcast and social media, because that's what's setting your circadian clock.

当你观看日落时，你会得到美丽的长波长与短波长的对比，我在播客和社交媒体上不断谈论这一点，因为这就是设置你的生物钟的原因。

It's that orange-red tones and the blue tones of the sky.

就是橙红色调和天空的蓝色调。

But right as the sun goes down across the horizon, especially over the ocean, there is the phenomenon known as the green flash.

但当太阳落入地平线时，尤其是在海洋上空时，就会出现一种称为绿闪光的现象。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yes.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: What is the basis for the green flash?

Andrew Huberman：绿色闪光的基础是什么？

Dr. Brian Keating: Well, I'll tell you something really cool.

Brian Keating 博士：好吧，我会告诉你一些非常酷的事情。

If you go to the South Pole, which is oversubscribed, by a factor of 10 to 1.

如果你去南极，那里的预订量是 10 比 1。

Ten times as many people want to spend their nine-month year of their nine months of their year minimum at the South Pole than we have room for to actually do work at the South Pole's carpentry.

想要在南极度过一年中最少九个月的九个月的人数是我们在南极木工实际工作空间的十倍。

Andrew Huberman: Which means 10 people total.

Andrew Huberman：这意味着总共 10 个人。

Dr. Brian Keating: No, there's 45 people there.

Brian Keating 博士：不，那里有 45 个人。

Andrew Huberman: Just kidding.

安德鲁·休伯曼：开玩笑。

Dr. Brian Keating: Just kidding.

Brian Keating 博士：开玩笑。

And they're all listening to you.

他们都在听你说话。

So when you want to go there, when you do go there, they actually don't know where the sun is going to set.

所以当你想去那里的时候，当你真的去那里的时候，他们实际上不知道太阳会在哪里落下。

Remember, the sun only rises and sets once a year, Right?

请记住，太阳每年只升起和落下一次，对吗？

So it's one day and one night per year, six months long.

所以一年就是一天一夜，六个月。

Where the sun sets is unknown.

太阳在哪里落下是未知的。

And actually the days preceding it, the sun is making a big circle around your head.

事实上，在这之前的几天，太阳正在你的头顶转一个大圈。

I've seen this with the moon.

我在月亮上见过这个。

So the sun and the moon, they just make a circle.

所以太阳和月亮，它们只是围成一个圆圈。

And slowly, after reaching their apex on the first day of summer, which is December 2021 for them down there, upside down, eventually it crosses the horizon on March, March 21st.

慢慢地，在夏季的第一天，即 2021 年 12 月，它们达到了顶峰，颠倒过来，最终在 3 月，即 3 月 21 日跨越了地平线。

Around March 21st, that's the first day of fall, or when they start getting ready for winter, they don't know where it's going to go down.

3月21日左右，这是秋天的第一天，或者当他们开始为冬天做准备时，他们不知道天气会下降到哪里。

We think of it always going to the west, but whereas west, at the South Pole, every direction you look is north.

我们认为它总是向西，但在南极向西，你看的每个方向都是北。

Okay, so when this occurs, the actual phenomenon that you mentioned, the green flash, can last for days or can last for hours.

好的，所以当这种情况发生时，你提到的实际现象，绿色闪光，可以持续几天或可以持续几个小时。

So if you really are an aficionado of Huberman protocols and you want to see the green flash, apply to be down there, but the bad news is you're stuck there for nine more months.

因此，如果您确实是 Huberman 协议的爱好者并且希望看到绿色闪光，请申请到那里，但坏消息是您还要在那里呆九个月。

Okay, so yes, it's a real phenomenon.

好吧，是的，这是一个真实的现象。

Not only can you take pictures of it, but you can see it with your eye.

你不仅可以拍照，还可以用眼睛看到它。

The only correction I would say is you pretty much need to have a perfectly clear day.

我要说的唯一修正是你非常需要有一个完全晴朗的一天。

You can't have any clouds on the horizon, and it's best seen over the ocean.

地平线上不可能有任何云彩，最好是在海洋上空观看。

So we're blessed here.

所以我们在这里很幸运。

Andrew Huberman: But for those of us that don't end up at the South Pole, God willing, send me a picture.

安德鲁·休伯曼：但是对于我们这些没有到达南极点的人来说，如果上帝愿意，请给我发一张照片。

Dr. Brian Keating: A lot of podcasts, environments that could really kill it.

Brian Keating 博士：很多播客和环境可能真的会杀死它。

Andrew Huberman: But if I watch the sun set over the Pacific or I see the green flash sometimes, what's the basis of that?

安德鲁·休伯曼：但是如果我观看太平洋上的日落或者有时看到绿色闪光，那么其基础是什么？

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, so the Earth's atmosphere is actually layered, okay.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，所以地球的大气层实际上是分层的，好吧。

But it's actually simpler to think about the Earth as being flat.

但实际上，认为地球是平的更简单。

Hopefully there's no flat Earthers out there thinking that Brian Keating is advocating the flat Earth.

希望世界上没有地平论者认为布莱恩·基廷在鼓吹地球是平的。

But imagine this table.

但想象一下这张桌子。

We're looking at a table.

我们正在看一张桌子。

Imagine there's a slab of, you know, translucent glass on it.

想象一下上面有一块半透明的玻璃板。

And we're sitting underneath the slab of glass, pretty thick glass, right?

我们坐在玻璃板下面，相当厚的玻璃，对吧？

And you're looking straight up.

而你正直视着上方。

You look through a minimum amount of the glass, right?

你透过最少量的玻璃看东西，对吗？

Straight up would be zenith at your local horizon.

直线上升将是您当地地平线的最高点。

Every direction you're looking is your horizon.

你所看到的每个方向都是你的地平线。

You see off the edge of this flat Earth.

你可以看到平坦地球的边缘。

In this analogy, when you look at a slight angle, you're going through more path length of the substrate of the substance.

在这个类比中，当你看一个微小的角度时，你会经历更多的物质基底的路径长度。

More glass, more glass.

更多玻璃，更多玻璃。

Finally, if you did have this thing extending to infinity, you'd be looking through an infinite amount of atmosphere or glass when you're tangent to the horizon, when you're going parallel to the Earth's surface.

最后，如果你确实有这个东西延伸到无限远，那么当你与地平线相切、与地球表面平行时，你就会透过无限量的大气层或玻璃进行观察。

In this flat Earth analogy, the Earth atmosphere is not only made of oxygen, it actually has a lot of particulates.

在这个扁平地球的类比中，地球大气不仅由氧气组成，实际上还含有大量颗粒物。

And it's because of those particulates, a lot of them come from dust and a lot of them come from, you know, volcanoes.

这是因为这些颗粒物，其中很多来自灰尘，其中很多来自火山。

And a large amount now comes from humanmade sources, pollution, and so forth.

现在很大一部分来自人为来源、污染等。

The more optical depth, the more path length that you look through, the more scattering of the sun's light occurs.

光学深度越深，您所看到的路径长度越长，太阳光发生的散射就越多。

When scattering occurs, the longer wavelength light more easily penetrates through dust, smog particles, even glass.

当发生散射时，波长较长的光更容易穿透灰尘、烟雾颗粒，甚至玻璃。

Okay?

好的？

So that goes through easier.

这样就更容易了。

And the short wavelengths comparable to the intermolecular spacing of the smog, the dust, the gas in the atmosphere, the oxygen scatters much more efficiently.

短波长与烟雾、灰尘、大气中的气体的分子间间距相当，氧气的散射效率更高。

And so that gets scattered out of the beam of light from the sun.

因此，它会从太阳光束中散射出来。

The sun's light, though, actually peaks slightly in the green.

然而，太阳光实际上在绿色处稍微达到峰值。

We don't actually notice this because our eyes are, and we're used to thinking of it as very yellow.

我们实际上并没有注意到这一点，因为我们的眼睛是这样的，而且我们习惯于认为它很黄。

And the reason for this can be substantiated by night vision glasses.

而其中的原因可以通过夜视眼镜来佐证。

What color is the light coming in?

进来的光是什么颜色？

It's green, right?

它是绿色的，对吧？

The amplified versions of these things.

这些东西的放大版本。

Why?

为什么？

Because your eye is very sensitive to green light.

因为你的眼睛对绿光非常敏感。

It's even more sensitive to green light than yellow light.

它对绿光甚至比黄光更敏感。

So, and that's because the sun, which is what we've evolved to adapt to, being most sensitive to sunlight, is more greenish than yellow.

所以，那是因为太阳是我们进化来适应的，对阳光最敏感，它的颜色比黄色更绿。

Andrew Huberman: So there's more power at the wavelengths, like, somewhere between, like, 450 and 550 nanometers?

Andrew Huberman：那么波长上的功率更大，比如 450 到 550 纳米之间？

Dr. Brian Keating: Exactly, 100%.

Brian Keating 博士：完全正确，100%。

Right.

正确的。

So at that green flash, at that moment of green flash, you're seeing two things.

因此，在绿色闪光的那一刻，你会看到两件事。

One is the sensitivity of the human eyes slightly maximized to that.

一是人眼的敏感度稍微最大化。

But that doesn't explain why photographs see it as well.

但这并不能解释为什么照片也能看到它。

And the other reason is that most of the yellow light and the sunlight is getting scattered away.

另一个原因是大部分黄光和阳光被散射掉了。

And so you're mainly seeing that green light, but you're only seeing it at the point of maximum scattering, which occurs exactly when the sun crosses the horizon.

所以你主要看到的是绿光，但你只能在最大散射点看到它，这恰好发生在太阳穿过地平线时。

Andrew Huberman: Because of the interaction with all that atmospheric dust.

Andrew Huberman：因为与大气尘埃的相互作用。

Yep, that's wild, because for the longest time I had a biological explanation for this that I think was based on a paper that was published, maybe in Nature, but don't quote me on that.

是的，这太疯狂了，因为很长一段时间以来，我对此有一个生物学解释，我认为这是基于发表在《自然》杂志上的一篇论文，但不要引用我的观点。

Dr. Brian Keating: Just because it's published in Nature doesn't mean it's wrong.

Brian Keating 博士：仅仅因为它发表在《自然》杂志上并不意味着它是错误的。

Andrew Huberman: I've got friends with a few Nature editors still and a great journal.

Andrew Huberman：我还有一些朋友，还有一些《自然》杂志的编辑和一本很棒的期刊。

Look, amazing.

瞧，太棒了。

We do a whole episode about Nature, Science and Cell.

我们做了一整集关于自然、科学和细胞的节目。

But the explanation that was getting kicked around for a while was a biological explanation, which is that our ability to perceive reds and greens and blues and yellows is based on our trichromacy.

但有一段时间被广泛讨论的解释是生物学解释，即我们感知红色、绿色、蓝色和黄色的能力是基于我们的三色性。

The presence of these three different photoreceptors, short, medium and long wavelength, or blue, green, red, so to speak, that absorb short, medium or long wavelength light.

这三种不同的光感受器的存在，短、中和长波长，或者可以说是蓝色、绿色、红色，吸收短、中或长波长的光。

And then the comparison, there's this opponency whereby our ability to see red is really contingent on our ability to perceive green.

然后进行比较，我们看到红色的能力实际上取决于我们感知绿色的能力。

And so for someone who's red-green colorblind, one in 80 males, for instance, they still see stuff out in the world that's red, but they see as more orangish or brown.

因此，对于红绿色盲的人来说，例如，百分之八十的男性中就有一个，他们仍然看到世界上的红色东西，但他们看到的更多是橙色或棕色。

Dogs are the same way, they're not colorblind, true monochromats that don't see color are very rare.

狗也一样，它们不是色盲，真正看不到颜色的单色者非常罕见。

That is one form.

那是一种形式。

I think it's called achromatopsie.

我认为这叫做全色盲。

Yeah, don't quote me on that either.

是的，也不要引用我的话。

But in any case, the idea was that if you're looking at something that's very enriched in long wavelengths, like orange, red, and you stare at it for long enough.

但无论如何，我们的想法是，如果你正在看一些长波长非常丰富的东西，比如橙色、红色，你就会盯着它看足够长的时间。

Have you ever done that?

你曾经这样做过吗？

American flag, visual optical illusion.

美国国旗，视觉错觉。

When you stare at, then you look away from it and you see the opposite colors.

当你凝视时，你将视线移开，你会看到相反的颜色。

Right.

正确的。

And so one biological explanation is that the sun is setting and you're looking at this orange-red thing.

因此，一种生物学解释是，太阳正在落山，你正在看着这个橙红色的东西。

When the sun is low in the sky, you can actually look at it without distressing your eyes.

当太阳在天空中低垂的时候，你实际上可以看到它，而不会让你的眼睛感到痛苦。

Right?

正确的？

As opposed to overhead, when you should never stare at the sun.

与头顶相反，当你不应该盯着太阳时。

And then the moment that that reddish orange disappears.

然后那红橙色消失的那一刻。

The biological explanation is that there's a, a kind of perception of a green flash because of the opponency in the switch to the other, let's just say wavelength channel, so to speak.

生物学的解释是，存在一种绿色闪光的感知，因为切换到另一个波长通道时存在对抗性。

Dr. Brian Keating: I don't think that's in disagreement.

Brian Keating 博士：我不认为这是有分歧的。

I think that might explain the amplification that we see.

我认为这可以解释我们所看到的放大现象。

But then it doesn't explain why you'd see it in a photographic emulsion.

但这并不能解释为什么你会在感光乳剂中看到它。

Right.

正确的。

There's nothing biological about it.

这与生物学无关。

Andrew Huberman: I like your explanation better because it's explained by physics, by real physics.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我更喜欢你的解释，因为它是用物理学、真实的物理学来解释的。

And the biology of color opponency is also physics, but not as well worked out.

颜色对立的生物学原理也是物理学，但还没有得到很好的解决。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Okay, cool.

安德鲁·休伯曼：好的，酷。

Earlier we were talking about the perceived relationship between the menstrual cycle, which is not always 28 days, but is on average 28 days, and the lunar cycle.

早些时候我们讨论了月经周期（并不总是 28 天，但平均为 28 天）与月球周期之间的感知关系。

Is there any evidence of that?

有证据证明这一点吗？

Well, it'd be amazing if one influenced the other in the...

好吧，如果一个人能够影响另一个人，那就太神奇了……

In the other direction, that the menstrual cycles were influencing the lunar cycle.

另一方面，月经周期正在影响月球周期。

But is there any evidence between, for a true relationship between the lunar cycle and the menstrual cycle that's been documented?

但是，是否有任何证据证明月球周期和月经周期之间存在真正的关系？

Dr. Brian Keating: I don't know.

布莱恩·基廷博士：我不知道。

It's interesting.

这很有趣。

The sun also produces tides and produces gravitational effects, but the dominant effect on Earth due to that 28-day, 29-day cycle of the moon is its effect on the Earth's oceans, which produces four tides a day.

太阳也会产生潮汐并产生引力效应，但由于月球28天、29天的周期，对地球的主要影响是它对地球海洋的影响，每天产生四次潮汐。

Two high and two low.

两高两低。

And actually Galileo incorrectly used that phenomenon as a way to buttress his argument that the Earth went around the Sun.

事实上，伽利略错误地利用这种现象来支持他的地球绕着太阳转的论点。

He basically, if you're listening, I'm taking my glass of...

他基本上，如果你在听的话，我正在喝...

my glass of Mateína yerba mate.

我的一杯马泰纳马黛茶。

So he said that when the Earth is spinning, it rotates once per day, but it's also revolving around the sun.

所以他说，当地球自转时，它每天自转一圈，但同时它也在绕着太阳公转。

So these combined motions make this sloshing of the liquid.

因此，这些组合运动使液体发生晃动。

You see that?

你看到了吗？

And he claimed that is what caused the tides on the Earth.

他声称这就是地球上潮汐的原因。

And in fact, that's completely wrong.

事实上，这是完全错误的。

It's amazing, Andrew, when you think about how brilliant a scientist can be and it's almost like the proportion of their blunder is proportionate to how brilliant.

安德鲁，当你想到一个科学家可以有多么聪明时，这真是太神奇了，而且他们犯的错误的比例几乎与他的聪明程度成正比。

Andrew Huberman: They are because it also correlates with the height of the problems they're chasing.

Andrew Huberman：他们这样做是因为这也与他们所追求的问题的严重程度相关。

Dr. Brian Keating: Exactly.

布莱恩·基廷博士：确实如此。

Andrew Huberman: You were saying that Galileo got certain things wrong, but got a number of things right.

安德鲁·休伯曼：你是说伽利略在某些事情上做错了，但在很多事情上做对了。

Dr. Brian Keating: That's right.

布莱恩·基廷博士：没错。

Einstein too.

爱因斯坦也是。

Newton too.

牛顿也是。

Andrew Huberman: Being wrong for the right reasons is actually very important in science.

Andrew Huberman：出于正确的原因而犯错实际上在科学中非常重要。

And by the right reasons, I mean that nobody's p-hacking, p-value hacking or fudging data, that they're not tossing data there, they're really trying to solve problems.

就正确的理由而言，我的意思是没有人进行 p 黑客攻击、p 值黑客攻击或捏造数据，他们不是在乱扔数据，而是真的在试图解决问题。

And you.

你呢。

It's almost like in sports, a great competitor wants great competitors.

这几乎就像在体育运动中一样，伟大的竞争对手需要伟大的竞争对手。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: I mean, what's the, like, why would somebody want to like, cheat into a different weight class, knock somebody out and consider themselves the world champion at that weight class?

安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，为什么有人想要欺骗进入不同的重量级别，将某人击倒并认为自己是该重量级别的世界冠军？

Like, it's just silly.

就像，这只是愚蠢的。

And in science, to not try and seek the truth is antiscience.

在科学中，不尝试寻求真理就是反科学。

Certainly it happens.

当然会发生。

But, okay, so no clear evidence that the lunar cycle influences the menstrual cycle.

但是，好吧，没有明确的证据表明月球周期会影响月经周期。

Dr. Brian Keating: I would expect that it would influence other animals.

Brian Keating 博士：我预计它会影响其他动物。

I don't know what the menstrual cycles are, you know, deer or whatever, you know, who knows?

我不知道月经周期是什么，你知道，鹿或其他什么，你知道，谁知道呢？

Or any animal that has, you know, egg that, you know.

或者任何有蛋的动物，你知道。

Andrew Huberman: Well, a lot of animals have not a menstrual cycle, but an estrous cycle.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：嗯，很多动物没有月经周期，但有发情周期。

So like a lot of rodents will have, like, a four-day cycle.

所以很多啮齿动物的周期都是四天。

Okay.

好的。

So it clearly doesn't map to the lunar cycle.

所以它显然不符合月球周期。

But you hear a lot about these things and humans are amazing at drawing correlations.

但你听说过很多关于这些事情的事情，而且人类在绘制相关性方面非常出色。

It's again, we're a prediction-making machine, we're a storytelling machine.

再说一次，我们是一台预测机器，我们是一台讲故事的机器。

Dr. Brian Keating: And in the past, by the way, the moon was a lot closer than it is now.

布莱恩·基廷博士：顺便说一句，过去月球比现在近得多。

Not a lot, but it was closer.

虽然不多，但也更接近了。

The moon moves about the width of your, again, back to your fingers now.

月亮移动到了你的宽度，现在又回到了你的手指。

So the moon moves away by the width of about your thumb's fingernail every year, moves further away, centimeter away from the Earth because there's a gravitational competition between the gravitational force of the moon, and the Earth's oceans provide a source of friction.

因此，月球每年都会移动大约拇指指甲盖的宽度，移动得更远，距离地球几厘米，因为月球的引力之间存在引力竞争，而地球的海洋提供了摩擦源。

So over the years it's getting farther and farther away such that it won't, eventually won't be able to have total solar eclipses.

所以这些年来它离我们越来越远，最终不会发生日全食。

It'll be what's called an annular eclipse where it doesn't obscure it completely.

这将是所谓的日环食，它不会完全遮盖它。

Anyway, so in the past, this is the only way to say millions of years ago, when the first hominids were evolving, you know, the moon was much, much closer millions of times the earth, you know, fingernails, eventually it starts to add up.

无论如何，所以在过去，这是唯一的说法，数百万年前，当第一个原始人类正在进化时，你知道，月球距离地球近数百万倍，你知道，指甲，最终它开始加起来。

And certainly when the first life formed on the earth, it was only, you know, it was probably 30 times closer than it is now.

当然，当第一个生命在地球上形成时，你知道，它可能比现在更接近 30 倍。

So, short answer, I don't know.

所以，简短的回答，我不知道。

Andrew Huberman: Where are some of the best places in the Northern Hemisphere?

Andrew Huberman：北半球最好的地方在哪里？

And please don't say the North Pole, where people can go see spectacular nighttime stuff.

请不要说北极，在那里人们可以看到壮观的夜间事物。

So I think of Yosemite, high country in August for the meteor shower.

所以我想到了优胜美地，八月流星雨的高地。

Certainly not the level that you're accustomed to looking at things, but with the naked eye, you're going to be assuming that it's not cloudy, you're going to be treated to a light show that is in my experience, beyond anything I've ever experienced.

当然不是你习惯看事物的水平，但用肉眼，你会假设天气不是多云，你会看到一场灯光秀，这是我的经历，超出了我经历过的任何事情。

So just, just extraordinary.

如此简单，如此非凡。

Dr. Brian Keating: On my, on the special website that I made, briankeating.com/huberman, I list the four major meteor showers, one in each season, that people can watch with your naked eye.

Brian Keating博士：在我的，在我制作的专门网站briankeating.com/huberman上，我列出了四大流星雨，每个季节一场，人们可以用肉眼观看。

In fact, it's bad to use a telescope.

事实上，使用望远镜是不好的。

You don't want a telescope.

你不需要望远镜。

Andrew Huberman: Because it juts through the field of view.

Andrew Huberman：因为它突出了视野。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, exactly.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，完全正确。

You want the whole field of view, and humans have amazing, as you know, a huge field, 190 degrees or something like that.

你想要整个视野，而正如你所知，人类拥有令人惊叹的巨大视野，190 度或类似的角度。

You know, just not as big as an owl, but, but quite big.

你知道，只是没有猫头鹰那么大，但是，但是相当大。

And you want to take that in because you're, you're looking for motion, you're looking for intensity.

你想要接受这一点，因为你正在寻找运动，你正在寻找强度。

Sometimes you can see colors.

有时你可以看到颜色。

And I list what elements contribute to the colors of different meteorites on this, you know, the website that I have.

我在我的网站上列出了导致不同陨石颜色的元素。

But yes, anywhere that's more than, say, 20, 30, 40 miles away from a major city is fine.

但是，是的，任何距主要城市超过 20、30、40 英里的地方都可以。

Even in San Diego, there's two dark-sky communities.

即使在圣地亚哥，也有两个黑暗天空社区。

One is called Julian, California, and the other one's the Anza Borrego Desert, and it's called Borrego Springs.

一个是加利福尼亚州的朱利安，另一个是安萨博雷戈沙漠，它的名字叫博雷戈泉。

These are areas where they forbid upward shining light.

这些区域禁止向上照射光线。

So the only light can be downward facing.

所以唯一的光可以朝下。

It also has to have very narrow spectral bands on it, so like sodium vapor, very high, so that you can filter it out basically with certain very inexpensive optical filters.

它还必须具有非常窄的光谱带，就像钠蒸气一样，光谱带非常高，这样你基本上就可以用某些非常便宜的滤光片将其过滤掉。

But, you know, like I said, almost anywhere.

但是，你知道，就像我说的，几乎在任何地方。

But the good thing to know is that if you get a telescope again, you can see 90% of what's going to be fascinating to you as a layperson with a telescope that costs $50, you can see all the craters, you can see mountains on the moon.

但要知道的是，如果你再次拥有一台望远镜，你可以看到 90% 的东西，作为一个外行，你可以用价值 50 美元的望远镜看到你所感兴趣的东西，你可以看到所有的陨石坑，你可以看到月球上的山脉。

And again, these mountains were not just like cool things.

再说一次，这些山脉不仅仅是酷炫的东西。

They destroyed, they falsified the "scientific paradigm" which was that the moon was perfectly crystalline and spherical.

他们摧毁、伪造了“科学范式”，即月球是完美的晶体和球形。

Galileo showed, no, not only does it have mountains, I can measure the height of those mountains.

伽利略表明，不，它不仅有山，我还可以测量那些山的高度。

I can measure the plains of lava flows.

我可以测量熔岩流的平原。

And eventually they came up with theories that it doesn't have tectonic motion, it doesn't have an iron core.

最终他们提出了这样的理论：它没有构造运动，没有铁核。

I mean, it's amazing.

我的意思是，这太棒了。

You can see all these things with a small telescope like the one I have for you.

你可以用像我为你准备的那样的小望远镜看到所有这些东西。

But you don't need, like the Hubble Telescope or Mount Wilson.

但你不需要像哈勃望远镜或威尔逊山那样。

You don't need any of that.

你不需要这些。

You can see the rings of Saturn, the moons of Jupiter.

你可以看到土星的光环、木星的卫星。

You can, even in a dark sky without a telescope, see an object that's outside of our galaxy.

即使在没有望远镜的黑暗天空中，您也可以看到银河系之外的物体。

It's called the Andromeda Galaxy.

它被称为仙女座星系。

That's very important in the history of astronomy.

这在天文学史上非常重要。

In 1929, 1923, rather, on Mount Wilson, not far from here, Edwin Hubble realized that that was not part of the Milky Way Galaxy.

1929年、1923年，更确切地说，在离这里不远的威尔逊山上，埃德温·哈勃意识到那不是银河系的一部分。

It was way too far away to be located within the Milky Way.

它距离银河系太远了。

It was about 20 times the radius of the Milky Way.

它大约是银河系半径的20倍。

And that revolutionized all of our conceptions of where the universe is located.

这彻底改变了我们对宇宙所在位置的所有概念。

Is it centered on us or are we the most important thing?

是以我们为中心还是我们是最重要的？

No, he showed that you can see that on most fall nights in the constellation Andromeda with your naked eye it is six times wider than the full moon.

不，他表明，在大多数秋天的夜晚，用肉眼都可以看到仙女座的宽度是满月的六倍。

It's incredible.

太不可思议了。

Andrew Huberman: When I look at many of the constellations, I don't see how our ancient predecessors got to the description of a bear or whatever.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：当我观察许多星座时，我不明白我们的古代前辈是如何描述熊或其他什么的。

Is that because they saw more stars than I did or is that because they had a wilder imagination or were taking psychedelics or something?

是因为他们比我看到的星星更多，还是因为他们的想象力更丰富，或者服用了迷幻药之类的？

Dr. Brian Keating: Twenty centuries before TikTok.

Brian Keating 博士：比 TikTok 早二十个世纪。

I cut them some slack.

我对他们放宽了一些。

There are a couple that look similar to what they're...

有一对和他们长得很像的情侣

Orion...

猎户座...

Andrew Huberman: It depends on how you connect the dots.

Andrew Huberman：这取决于你如何将这些点联系起来。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yes.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: I mean, the Big Dipper and the Little Dipper are kind of like.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我的意思是，北斗七星和小北斗星有点像。

Okay, you get that--

好吧，你明白了——

Dr. Brian Keating: --those aren't constellations.

布莱恩·基廷博士：——那些不是星座。

Those aren't constellations.

这些不是星座。

I have to be great, I have to put on my very, very precise--

我必须表现出色，我必须表现得非常非常精确——

Andrew Huberman: --Why are they not constellations?

安德鲁·休伯曼：——为什么它们不是星座？

Dr. Brian Keating: So they're portions of a constellation, so they're called asterisms.

Brian Keating 博士：所以它们是星座的一部分，所以它们被称为星群。

So an asterism is a collection of stars that's associated with each other, but it's not the full composition of a constellation.

因此，星群是彼此相关的恒星的集合，但它并不是星座的完整组成。

So the constellation is actually called Ursa Major.

所以这个星座实际上被称为大熊座。

The Big Dipper's in the tail and the hindquarters of Ursa Major, which is the Great Bear.

北斗七星位于大熊座的尾部和后躯，也就是大熊座。

The Little Dipper is the asterism, seven stars that make up, there's 80-something stars that make up the Little Bear, which actually doesn't look like a bear.

小北斗七星是星群，七颗星组成，小熊有八十多颗星星，实际上看起来不像熊。

Ursa Major kind of does look like the California Republic flag that we have.

大熊座确实看起来像我们拥有的加利福尼亚共和国国旗。

But yes, the asterism.

但是，是的，星群。

I always ask for people to leave...

我总是要求人们离开...

you can't, you know, they're not making new constellations.

你不能，你知道，他们没有创造新的星座。

There's only 88 constellations over the whole four PI, spherical dome of the sky.

整个 PI（四个 PI）球形穹顶上只有 88 个星座。

But you can leave your own asterism on the podcast.

但您可以在播客上留下您自己的星号。

You can leave five stars on your podcast and mine.

您可以在您和我的播客上留下五颗星。

So you can't have a constellation, but you can have an asterism.

所以你不能有星座，但你可以有星群。

Andrew Huberman: Love it.

安德鲁·休伯曼：喜欢。

Did you catch Halley's Comet when it came by when you were a few years older than I was?

当你比我大几岁的时候，你有没有看到哈雷彗星呢？

Dr. Brian Keating: I was 14.

Brian Keating 博士：当时我 14 岁。

It was right after I got my first telescope.

就在我得到第一台望远镜之后。

Andrew Huberman: Comes through every.

Andrew Huberman：经历过每一次。

Every 70 years.

每70年一次。

Dr. Brian Keating: Seventy-six years.

布莱恩·基廷博士：七十六年。

Yeah, that's right.

是的，没错。

Andrew Huberman: I'm right.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我是对的。

Yeah, that was a--

是的，那是一个——

Dr. Brian Keating: That's very good.

Brian Keating 博士： 非常好。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I remember.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我记得。

70-something, all right.

70多岁，好吧。

Dr. Brian Keating: But that's not like the best comet in history.

布莱恩·基廷博士：但这不像历史上最好的彗星。

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, I remember going out to see it.

安德鲁·休伯曼：是的，我记得出去看过。

It was a part of a group that went camping and it looked like a smear of light.

这是一群去露营的人的一部分，看起来就像一抹光。

It's hard to know did I really see it or did I not?

很难知道我真的看到了还是没有看到？

In any case, the only other comet that came to mind is the San Diego thing was the Hale-Bopp.

无论如何，我想到的唯一另一颗彗星是圣地亚哥彗星，那就是海尔-波普彗星。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: Where there was a group that committed mass suicide.

安德鲁·休伯曼：那里有一群人集体自杀。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的，是的。

Andrew Huberman: These were people that had castrated themselves, had been eating a subcaloric, submaintenance caloric diet to live forever and then decide to wear Converse and kill themselves.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：这些人已经阉割了自己，一直在吃低热量、低热量饮食来永生，然后决定穿着匡威自杀。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: What do you think?

安德鲁·休伯曼：你觉得怎么样？

Let's not go dark there.

我们不要在那里变黑。

What do you think is the relationship between like comets and these and these wild human behaviors?

你认为类似的彗星和这些以及这些野生的人类行为之间有什么关系？

Dr. Brian Keating: It's so interesting you mentioned that.

Brian Keating 博士：你提到的这一点很有趣。

Andrew Huberman: And lunacy for that matter.

Andrew Huberman：这也是疯狂的。

Like full-moon lunacy.

就像满月的疯狂一样。

Dr. Brian Keating: Right.

布莱恩·基廷博士： 是的。

Crime statistics.

犯罪统计。

So look at these words.

所以看看这些话。

Disaster, catastrophe.

灾难，灾难。

The "ast" in both of those means star.

两者中的“ast”都是星星的意思。

They used to believe that stars, comets, eclipses, those things were influencing events on Earth caused by these celestial forces for not propitiating them, making the gods happy or whatever.

他们曾经相信星星、彗星、日食，这些东西正在影响地球上由这些天体力量引起的事件，因为它们没有安抚它们，没有让众神高兴或其他什么。

And in fact Columbus owed his life, you know, he was almost killed in Jamaica, and I think it was 1498.

事实上，哥伦布欠了他的命，你知道，他差点在牙买加被杀，我想那是1498年。

A couple of years after discovering America, he's still exploring and he failed to ingratiate himself with the local, you know, native inhabitants of Jamaica or wherever he was.

发现美洲几年后，他仍在探索中，但他未能讨好当地的，你知道的，牙买加或他所在的任何地方的土著居民。

And they were going to kill him.

他们要杀了他。

And he luckily had on for navigation, astronomy and navigation have always been intimately related because first of all, if you know where Polaris is, which is not the brightest star, it's in the Little Dipper, it's the Pole Star, it's the North Star.

幸运的是，他对航海有兴趣，天文学和航海一直是密切相关的，因为首先，如果你知道北极星在哪里，它不是最亮的星星，它在小北斗七星，它是北极星，它是北极星。

You've heard true north, North Star.

你听说过真正的北方，北极星。

It's actually very close to being, if you go to the North Pole and look straight up, it's very close to being directly above you.

它实际上非常接近存在，如果你去北极并向上看，它非常接近在你的正上方。

Andrew Huberman: And does it always mark true north?

Andrew Huberman：它总是标志着正北吗？

Dr. Brian Keating: On any human time scale, it does, over thousands and tens of thousands of years it changes.

布莱恩·基廷博士：在任何人类时间尺度上，它都会发生变化，在数千年和数万年中它会发生变化。

But right now for the next couple thousand years, so you know, don't worry, you'll still be accurate.

但现在，在接下来的几千年里，所以你知道，别担心，你仍然是准确的。

That is within a half a degree.

那是在半度之内。

Andrew Huberman: Or two, your brain thinks at these timescale, as long as you're talking for the next thousand years, you're good.

安德鲁·胡伯曼：或者两个，你的大脑在这些时间尺度上思考，只要你在接下来的一千年里说话，你就很好。

Dr. Brian Keating: Well I say like this, you know, the universe could end in a heat death and a big rip or whatever.

布莱恩·基廷博士：嗯，我是这样说的，你知道，宇宙可能会以热寂和大撕裂或其他什么方式结束。

But you know, that's not for a trillion years.

但你知道，这还不到一万亿年。

So everybody keep paying your taxes.

所以每个人都继续纳税。

So you could use it for navigation, so you could know your latitude.

所以你可以用它来导航，这样你就可以知道你的纬度。

But measuring longitude was very difficult because you couldn't actually, to know longitude, you need to measure time relative to where Greenwich Mean Time is.

但测量经度非常困难，因为您实际上无法知道经度，您需要测量相对于格林威治标准时间的时间。

That's how Greenwich became so important and that's why London had this huge economy.

这就是格林威治变得如此重要的原因，也是伦敦拥有如此庞大经济的原因。

Again, these things are always related.

再说一次，这些事情总是相关的。

Capitalism and even how we measure latitude and longitude comes from the fact that London and Thames River, 90% of the world's commerce flowed through there at one point or another.

资本主义，甚至我们测量纬度和经度的方式都来自于这样一个事实：伦敦和泰晤士河，世界上 90% 的商业都曾流经那里。

It's incredible.

太不可思议了。

So anyway, latitude, longitude is very important.

所以无论如何，纬度、经度非常重要。

People started to know that, yeah, these events would occur and including this event with Columbus.

人们开始知道，是的，这些事件将会发生，包括哥伦布的事件。

And he brought along with him on his voyage an astronomer.

他在航行中还带着一位天文学家。

And this astronomer knew that in two days' time from when these natives had captured some of Columbus's crew, that there was going to be a total solar eclipse and it was going to go through Jamaica.

这位天文学家知道，在这些当地人俘获哥伦布的一些船员之后的两天内，将会发生日全食，并且它将穿过牙买加。

And he said, he told Columbus and Columbus said to the inhabitants, if you don't give our people back, our God is going to obscure and kill your God, the sun God.

他说，他告诉哥伦布，哥伦布对居民说，如果你们不把我们的人民还给我们，我们的上帝就会掩盖并杀死你们的上帝，太阳神。

They're like F you, you know, whatever.

他们就像 F 你，你知道，无论如何。

And then it happened and they totally believed that they were in control of these celestial events.

然后事情发生了，他们完全相信自己能够控制这些天体事件。

We better give the people back.

我们最好回报人民。

And Columbus got the hell out of there.

哥伦布离开了那里。

So it's an amazing story.

所以这是一个了不起的故事。

But yes, comets have always been--

但是，是的，彗星一直是——

Andrew Huberman: So Columbus actually used the sun as a manipulative barter to threaten.

安德鲁·休伯曼：所以哥伦布实际上利用太阳作为一种操纵性的易货贸易来威胁。

As a threat.

作为威胁。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yeah, he used it for military coercion.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，他用它来进行军事胁迫。

Andrew Huberman: An important book for anyone to read who's interested in basically why we're still here, in my opinion.

安德鲁·休伯曼：我认为，对于任何对我们为何还在这里感兴趣的人来说，这是一本重要的书。

Is the book "Longitude," by Dava Sobel.

是达瓦·索贝尔所著的《经度》一书。

Dr. Brian Keating: Yes, I'm interviewing her.

Brian Keating 博士：是的，我正在采访她。

Andrew Huberman: This is an incredible book, doesn't require any science or technical background to read and appreciate about the development of the first reliable timekeeping devices for navigating at sea even on overcast nights and longitude and finding longitude.

Andrew Huberman：这是一本令人难以置信的书，不需要任何科学或技术背景就可以阅读和欣赏第一个可靠的计时设备的开发，即使在阴天的夜晚也能在海上航行，经度和查找经度。

It's a spectacular read.

这是一本精彩的读物。

Dr. Brian Keating: It is.

布莱恩·基廷博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman: And changed the way that I think about human evolution and technology development generally--

Andrew Huberman：这改变了我对人类进化和技术发展的总体看法——

Dr. Brian Keating: There's a direct connection.

Brian Keating 博士：有直接的联系。

Sorry to interrupt, but there's a connection between that and the Nobel Prize.

抱歉打扰，但这和诺贝尔奖之间有联系。

So there was something called the Longitude Prize in the 1700s to develop a clock that could be used in naval situations on boats.

因此，在 1700 年代，出现了一种名为“经度奖”的项目，旨在开发一种可以在船上用于海军情况的时钟。

You couldn't use a grandfather clock as the pendulum, acceleration, so they had to find something.

你不能使用落地钟作为钟摆、加速度，所以他们必须找到一些东西。

And this guy Thompson or somebody.

还有这个汤普森或者其他人。

Andrew Huberman: Harrison.

安德鲁·休伯曼：哈里森。

Dr. Brian Keating: Harrison, yes.

布莱恩·基廷博士：哈里森，是的。

He invented this mechanical clock which predecessors of our modern windup clocks, obviously we use cesium and atomic clocks.

他发明了这种机械钟，它是我们现代发条钟的前身，显然我们使用铯钟和原子钟。

But that prize for £10,000 or whatever it was, was an early predecessor of the Nobel Prize.

但这个奖金为 10,000 英镑或其他什么的奖项是诺贝尔奖的早期前身。

Andrew Huberman: I've been waiting this whole conversation to talk to you about adaptive optics.

Andrew Huberman：我一直在等待整个对话，以便与您谈论自适应光学。

Let me give just a little bit of backdrop for how I'm approaching this.

让我简单介绍一下我是如何处理这个问题的。

In the field of neuroscience, there's, as with any field of biology, a desire to see smaller and smaller things at higher and higher resolution.

在神经科学领域，与任何生物学领域一样，人们渴望以越来越高的分辨率看到越来越小的事物。

And there have been all sorts of incredible discoveries in microscopy like two-photon microscopy, one-photon microscopy, electron microscopy.

显微镜领域出现了各种令人难以置信的发现，如双光子显微镜、单光子显微镜、电子显微镜。

You see things down to the, you know, tiny, tiny nanometer size.

你可以看到小到非常非常小的纳米尺寸的东西。

Some years ago a group out of the University of Rochester developed adaptive optics — it was David Williams' group — which is borrowed from astronomy.

几年前，罗彻斯特大学的一个小组（大卫·威廉姆斯的小组）开发了自适应光学技术，这是从天文学中借用的。

And my very top contour understanding of this is that you're using the presence of noise in the environment essentially as part of the microscope to get a better image.

我对此的最重要的理解是，您基本上是利用环境中存在的噪声作为显微镜的一部分来获得更好的图像。

And this was used in the field of ophthalmology to look into the back of the eye.

这被用于眼科领域来观察眼睛的后部。

This incredible three-cell-layer-thick pie crust that lines the back of our eyes, that it gives us all of our visual perception, not alone, but allows for all of our visual perception.

这种令人难以置信的三细胞层厚的饼皮排列在我们的眼睛后面，它给了我们所有的视觉感知，不仅是单独的，而且允许我们所有的视觉感知。

As I mentioned before, the eye has a lens, there's vitreous, there's all sorts of opportunity for light scatter.

正如我之前提到的，眼睛有晶状体，有玻璃体，有各种光散射的机会。

And then within the eye itself you've got these multiple layers you have to go through before you can see the photoreceptors.

然后，在眼睛内部，您必须经过多个层才能看到光感受器。

But using adaptive optics, you can take all that noise, all that stuff between the microscope and what you want to see, way, way back in the eye and use that "noise" and make it part of the microscope, so to speak.

但是使用自适应光学器件，您可以将所有这些噪音，即显微镜和您想要看到的东西之间的所有东西，回到眼睛中，并使用这些“噪音”，并使其成为显微镜的一部分，可以这么说。

And without going into further detail there, I was always told that adaptive optics was borrowed from your field astronomy, where people use the presence of atmospheric dust of these stuff in the way and made it part of the lens, if you will, to be able to see things at higher resolution, which I just think is so incredible.

在没有进一步详细说明的情况下，我总是被告知自适应光学是从野外天文学借用的，人们利用这些东西的大气尘埃的存在，并将其作为镜头的一部分，如果你愿意的话，能够以更高分辨率看到事物，我认为这是如此令人难以置信。

It's like saying that the barrier becomes the portal through which you can see even more than had you had a clear path.

这就像说障碍变成了门户，通过它你可以看到比有一条清晰的路径更多的东西。

Dr. Brian Keating: "The Obstacle Is the Way."

布赖恩·基廷博士：“障碍就是道路。”

Andrew Huberman: Shout out to Ryan.

安德鲁·休伯曼：向瑞安大声喊叫。

Ryan Holiday.

瑞安霍利迪。

Yeah, never met him, but I like that book very much.

是的，我没见过他，但我非常喜欢那本书。

Okay, so what is adaptive optics at the level for astronomers?

好的，那么天文学家级别的自适应光学是什么？

Dr. Brian Keating: Okay, so we live in an atmosphere, a planet with an atmosphere.

布莱恩·基廷博士：好的，我们生活在一个大气层中，一个有大气层的星球上。

Thank God, we wouldn't be here having this conversation, right?

感谢上帝，我们不会在这里进行这样的谈话，对吗？

And that atmosphere is a dirty window.

那种气氛是一扇肮脏的窗户。

It's like literally looking through the windshield of your car and it's cloudy and dusty and contaminated.

这就像透过汽车的挡风玻璃看去一样，浑浊、布满灰尘、受到污染。

We live in its presence.

我们生活在它的存在中。

And the best astronomical telescopes are the ones that are launched above the atmosphere, out of the atmosphere.

最好的天文望远镜是在大气层上方、大气层之外发射的望远镜。

Hubble Space Telescope, Kepler, and now the James Webb Telescope.

哈勃太空望远镜、开普勒望远镜，以及现在的詹姆斯·韦伯望远镜。

Again, those are multibillion dollar telescopes, the James Webb, to build it.

同样，这些是花费数十亿美元建造的望远镜，即詹姆斯·韦伯望远镜。

And by the way, one lesson to leave you with, and maybe your audience with as well, is whenever you hear a scientific instrument's cost, always in your mind, at least double it.

顺便说一句，给你和你的听众留下的一个教训是，每当你听到科学仪器的成本时，你总是会想到，至少是它的两倍。

Andrew Lange, my late great mentor, used to say multiply by PI because you're not taking into account the fact that you don't build, say, a destroyer or an aircraft carrier to build it.

我已故的伟大导师安德鲁·兰格（Andrew Lange）过去常常说乘以 PI，因为你没有考虑到你不建造驱逐舰或航空母舰来建造它的事实。

You build it to use it.

您构建它是为了使用它。

And it's about 10% of the operating, of the construction cost, to operate an instrument, a battleship, a telescope, whatever.

仪器、战舰、望远镜等的操作费用大约占运营成本和建造成本的 10%。

That's a rule of thumb that project managers love to use.

这是项目经理喜欢使用的经验法则。

So that means in 10 years, it's going to double the price.

这意味着 10 年内，价格将翻倍。

And we hope that Hubble and Webb...

我们希望哈勃和韦伯......

and Hubble's already lasted 40 years on, so it'll last a long time.

哈勃望远镜已经使用了 40 年，所以它会持续很长时间。

So whenever you hear this.

所以每当你听到这句话的时候。

But it's incredibly expensive.

但它非常昂贵。

One kilogram used to cost, like, $10,000 to bring to orbit.

过去将一公斤送入轨道的成本约为 10,000 美元。

And Elon keeps talking about how cheap it's going to be, but he has yet to launch a scientific instrument.

埃隆一直在谈论它的价格会有多便宜，但他还没有推出科学仪器。

I talked to him for 10 minutes on my podcast once, and I tried to get him to shut off.

有一次我在我的播客上和他聊了 10 分钟，我试图让他关闭。

These Starlinks are amazing, I have one in my house, but they have the property that they go through astronomical images, and they leave a satellite trail behind them, which is, you know, can be comprehensive.

这些星链太棒了，我家里就有一个，但它们具有可以浏览天文图像的特性，并且它们身后会留下卫星轨迹，你知道，这可以是全面的。

You're taking a picture of a deep star, a deep, you know, galaxy or whatever, and you see these streaks going through it.

你正在拍摄一颗深恒星、一个深星系或其他什么东西的照片，你会看到这些条纹穿过它。

It ruins the image, and you have to wait until they're gone.

它破坏了形象，你必须等到它们消失。

But at least in optical astronomy, you can physically, literally paint those satellites black, and they will no longer reflect, and so they won't obscure the image whatsoever.

但至少在光学天文学中，你可以在物理上，字面上将这些卫星涂成黑色，它们将不再反射，因此它们不会模糊图像。

Andrew Huberman: So you're saying that the Starlink satellites are going to make your job more difficult?

安德鲁·休伯曼：所以你是说星链卫星会让你的工作变得更加困难？

Dr. Brian Keating: They definitely are.

Brian Keating 博士：确实是。

Because while you can paint an optical satellite black and make it black, we're looking for heat.

因为虽然你可以将光学卫星涂成黑色并使其变黑，但我们正在寻找热量。

There's no way to stealth, you know, confuse or block out heat.

你知道，没有办法隐身、迷惑或阻挡热量。

Sorry.

对不起。

That's a law of thermodynamics.

这是热力学定律。

Anything that's above absolute zero will always give off heat.

任何高于绝对零的东西总会放出热量。

And worst of all, the signals that he uses are in the exact microwave spectral range that we use to look at the CMB, the cosmic microwave background.

最糟糕的是，他使用的信号恰好位于我们用来观察 CMB（宇宙微波背景）的微波光谱范围内。

Andrew Huberman: So what's his response to this?

安德鲁·休伯曼：那么他对此有何回应？

Dr. Brian Keating: I told him--

布莱恩·基廷博士：我告诉他——

Andrew Huberman: That having internet everywhere is more important.

Andrew Huberman：无处不在的互联网更为重要。

Dr. Brian Keating: No, he said he would look into it, you know, nine months ago.

Brian Keating 博士：不，他在九个月前就说过他会调查此事。

Elon, I know you like the show, so please do reach out to me.

Elon，我知道你喜欢这个节目，所以请联系我。

But this would be just turning it off when it's over our telescope, basically, and the South Pole.

但这只是当它在我们的望远镜上空和南极上空时将其关闭。

So it's not a big deal.

所以这没什么大不了的。

Andrew Huberman: That's a specific request.

Andrew Huberman：这是一个具体要求。

Dr. Brian Keating: There's no one at the South Pole.

Brian Keating 博士：南极没有人。

It's not like he's getting millions of dollars in ad revenue from people at the South Pole.

他并没有从南极人那里获得数百万美元的广告收入。

They don't use them.

他们不使用它们。

So anyway, that's what I'm asking, Elon.

无论如何，这就是我要问的，埃隆。

It's a small ask, but anyway, so we want to be above the atmosphere.

这是一个很小的要求，但无论如何，我们希望超越大气层。

But it's millions and maybe billions of dollars to do that for a telescope like we're using or for an optical telescope here on Earth.

但对于我们正在使用的望远镜或地球上的光学望远镜来说，要做到这一点需要数百万甚至数十亿美元。

So scientists became very convinced that there has to be a way to mitigate the effects of the atmosphere.

因此，科学家们非常确信必须有一种方法来减轻大气的影响。

Now what is the main effect of the atmosphere?

那么气氛的主要作用是什么？

Well, you learned it when you were a kid.

嗯，你小时候就学会了。

Twinkle, twinkle little star, How I wonder what you are.

闪烁，闪烁的小星星，我多么想知道你是什么。

What is that twinkling?

那闪烁的是什么？

It's called scintillation.

这就是所谓的闪烁。

Scintillation is the property of a point source, which is a star, is so far away, even though they're enormous, they still only subtend a zero-dimensional, almost zero-dimensional dot of light on the sky when it goes through the atmosphere.

闪烁是点源的属性，点源是恒星，距离很远，尽管它们很大，但当它穿过大气层时，它们仍然只对着天空上的一个零维、几乎零维的光点。

The atmosphere has macroscopic turbulence features.

大气具有宏观湍流特征。

The atmosphere is a fluid.

大气是流体。

There's turbulence, there's roiling columns or cells of the atmosphere.

有湍流，有翻滚的柱体或大气层。

And if you've ever looked at a star, they jitter, they look like they're moving around and that's the combination of the atmospheric cells.

如果你曾经观察过一颗恒星，它们就会抖动，看起来就像在移动，这就是大气细胞的组合。

Each column of air that has slightly more density will refract light at slightly different angles.

每根密度稍大的空气柱都会以稍微不同的角度折射光线。

Remember we talked about light when it goes through a lens, it refracts, it bends.

还记得我们讨论过光通过透镜时会发生折射、弯曲吗？

Andrew Huberman: So should we be thinking about the light from stars?

安德鲁·休伯曼：那么我们应该考虑恒星发出的光吗？

Kind of like a jagged line coming towards our eye.

有点像一条锯齿状的线进入我们的眼睛。

Dr. Brian Keating: It's coming through, it's getting deflected slightly and it's moving and it's landing on different retinal cells.

Brian Keating 博士：它穿过来，稍微偏转，移动，落在不同的视网膜细胞上。

And we're perceiving that as this motion or in a CCD array.

我们将其视为运动或 CCD 阵列。

It's also landing on different pixels.

它也登陆在不同的像素上。

So you can't get away from it, you know, by using technology.

所以你知道，你无法通过使用技术来摆脱它。

It's still an effect.

还是有效果的。

It's caused by these atmospheric turbulent cells.

它是由这些大气湍流细胞引起的。

And by the way, you can tell and you can identify a planet by the fact it does not scintillate, it does not twinkle, twinkle.

顺便说一句，你可以通过它不闪烁、不闪烁的事实来辨别和识别一颗行星。

So Jupiter's visible tonight.

所以今晚木星是可见的。

I hope you'll see it with the telescope.

我希望你能用望远镜看到它。

We can see it after we're done recording.

录制完成后我们就可以看到它。

We keep going.

我们继续前进。

We're about halfway done.

我们已经完成一半了。

I figure we'll go outside, we'll look at it and you'll see it's not stationary.

我想我们会走到外面，看看它，你会发现它不是静止的。

And I actually used that on the the night I kissed my wife for the first time.

事实上，我在第一次亲吻我妻子的那天晚上就用了它。

But I'm not going to talk about that.

但我不会谈论这个。

When you look at the planet, you can identify them by their lack of scintillation.

当你观察这颗行星时，你可以通过它们缺乏闪烁来识别它们。

So it's a way to identify if it's a plane, a star or a planet.

所以这是一种识别它是飞机、恒星还是行星的方法。

So astronomers, including a colleague of mine in the UC system, Claire Max, and other people realized in the 1960s and '70s that if they had a fake star, it's actually called either a guide star or an artificial star.

因此天文学家，包括我在加州大学系统的同事克莱尔·马克斯（Claire Max）和其他人在 20 世纪 60 年代和 70 年代意识到，如果他们有一颗假恒星，它实际上要么被称为引导星，要么被称为人造星。

I'll explain how they make that in a minute.

我将在一分钟内解释他们是如何做到这一点的。

Then if they knew the exact properties of that guide star, then they could measure just the guide star through the same optics of the telescope.

然后，如果他们知道该引导星的确切属性，那么他们就可以通过望远镜的相同光学器件来测量引导星。

And then they would take the light from that artificial star onto a flexible, deformable mirror.

然后他们会将人造星发出的光投射到灵活的、可变形的镜子上。

So the mirror could actually wobble and wiggle, and it would do so in an exactly compensatory way to nullify the atmospheric turbulence.

因此，镜子实际上可以摇晃和摆动，并且它会以一种完全补偿的方式来消除大气湍流。

So it's basically what light does when it goes through a cell of the atmosphere.

所以这基本上就是光穿过大气层时所做的事情。

It traverses a slightly longer path difference.

它穿过稍长的路径差。

So they would shorten the path difference of the mirror.

所以他们会缩短镜子的光程差。

They make it a little bit closer in the direction of that cell.

他们让它朝着那个细胞的方向更近一些。

And other places they'd make it farther away and vice versa, they compensate for it.

而在其他地方，他们会将其拉得更远，反之亦然，他们会对此进行补偿。

This was done by a combination of two technologies.

这是通过两种技术的结合来完成的。

One was the deformable mirror that could flex 100 times per second.

其中之一是每秒可弯曲 100 次的可变形镜子。

And the other was making these artificial stars.

另一个是制造这些人造恒星。

So how do they make an artificial star?

那么他们如何制造人造星呢？

They shoot a laser into the troposphere.

他们向对流层发射激光。

That laser illuminates--

那激光照亮了——

Andrew Huberman: So the troposphere?

安德鲁·休伯曼：那么对流层呢？

Dr. Brian Keating: The troposphere is a layer of the atmosphere.

Brian Keating 博士：对流层是大气层。

I used to know all the different layers, but that's okay.

我曾经了解所有不同的层次，但这没关系。

Okay.

好的。

The ionosphere is the farthest layer of the atmosphere.

电离层是大气层最远的一层。

It's 30, 40 kilometers above the Earth.

它距离地球30、40公里。

It's not quite in space, far enough away that the laser beam is still collimated.

它并不完全在太空中，距离足够远，激光束仍然是准直的。

It makes a nice beam and it can illuminate and then cause this sodium ions to fluoresce, basically.

它会发出漂亮的光束，它可以发光，然后使钠离子基本上发出荧光。

So they start to get really stimulated.

所以他们开始受到真正的刺激。

It looks just like a star.

它看起来就像一颗星星。

They know exactly how they produced it.

他们确切地知道他们是如何生产它的。

They know exactly what phase and wavelength to correct in the mirror.

他们确切地知道要在镜子中校正什么相位和波长。

And then they say it's almost as good as going into space.

然后他们说这几乎和进入太空一样好。

It corrects exactly the compensation of the Earth's atmosphere with the combination of this deformable mirror.

它与这种变形镜的结合精确地校正了地球大气层的补偿。

And it was actually used by my colleague Andrea Ghez here at UCLA to measure the properties of stars orbiting around the black hole at the center of the Milky Way and test Einstein's theory of relativity.

实际上，我在加州大学洛杉矶分校的同事安德里亚·盖兹 (Andrea Ghez) 使用它来测量围绕银河系中心黑洞运行的恒星的特性，并测试爱因斯坦的相对论。

Without this on the twin 10-meter-diameter Keck telescopes in Hawaii, she never would have won that Nobel Prize.

如果没有夏威夷双座直径 10 米凯克望远镜的这一功能，她永远不会获得诺贝尔奖。

So it's amazing technology, but it was classified.

所以这是一项令人惊叹的技术，但它是保密的。

It was so useful to astronomers, but it wasn't as useful as to the military.

它对天文学家非常有用，但对军队却没有那么有用。

Remember I said Galileo used his telescope to sell it to the military of Venice.

记得我说过伽利略用他的望远镜把它卖给了威尼斯军方。

It was immediately classified by the US military because if you think about a spy satellite, what's it doing?

它立即被美国军方列为机密，因为如果你想想间谍卫星，它在做什么？

Well, it's staring down to Earth and it's looking at license plates, you know, looking at whatever on Earth.

嗯，它凝视着地球，它正在查看车牌，你知道，正在查看地球上的任何东西。

It's also going through the atmosphere.

它也穿过大气层。

It's going to have the same problems.

也会遇到同样的问题。

So they want to use that and have this technological advantage over the Soviets probably in the 1970s and '80s.

所以他们想利用这一点，并可能在 20 世纪 70 年代和 80 年代拥有相对于苏联的技术优势。

So they classified it.

所以他们把它分类了。

They didn't let many astronomers build things.

他们没有让很多天文学家建造东西。

They could deliver the finished product, but they couldn't patent it, they couldn't use it.

他们可以交付成品，但他们无法申请专利，也无法使用它。

And so Claire Max, as I said, she could have been super rich.

所以克莱尔·麦克斯，正如我所说，她本来可以非常富有。

But it's interesting because now they're using it.

但这很有趣，因为现在他们正在使用它。

So it's bad enough to look from Earth to space, but as I said, if you imagine the Earth as having a slab of an atmosphere, imagine a sniper, the sniper's trying to make a kill shot.

所以从地球到太空已经够糟糕的了，但正如我所说，如果你想象地球有一块大气层，想象一个狙击手，狙击手正试图进行致命一击。