Dr. Andy Galpin: How to Build Strength, Muscle Size & Endurance

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

Today, my guest is Dr. Andy Galpin.

今天，我的嘉宾是安迪·加尔平博士。

Dr. Galpin is a full and tenured professor in the Department of Kinesiology at California State University, in Fullerton.

Galpin 博士是富勒顿市加州州立大学运动机能学系的终身教授。

He is also a world expert in all things exercise, science and kinesiology.

他也是运动、科学和运动机能学方面的世界专家。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Today, you are going to hear what is essentially a master class in how to build fitness no matter what level of fitness you happen to have.

今天，无论您的健康水平如何，您都会听到关于如何增强健康的大师课程。

He talks about how to build endurance and the multiple types of endurance.

他谈论了如何建立耐力以及耐力的多种类型。

He talks about how to build strength and hypertrophy, which is the growth of muscle fibers.

他谈到了如何增强力量和肥大，即肌肉纤维的生长。

So if you're seeking to get stronger or build bigger muscles or build endurance or all of those things, today you're going to learn how.

因此，如果您想变得更强壮、锻炼更大的肌肉、增强耐力或所有这些，那么今天您将学习如何做。

You are also going to learn how to build flexibility, how to hydrate properly for exercise, and we'll also talk about nutrition and supplementation.

您还将学习如何增强灵活性，如何在运动时适当补充水分，我们还将讨论营养和补充。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What makes Dr. Galpin so unique is his ability to span all levels of exercise science.

加尔平博士的独特之处在于他能够跨越运动科学的各个层面。

He has the ability to clearly communicate the sets and repetition schemes that one would want to follow, for instance, to build more strength or to build larger muscles.

他有能力清楚地传达人们想要遵循的组数和重复方案，例如，增强力量或锻炼更大的肌肉。

He also clearly describes exactly how to train if you want to build more endurance or enhance cardiovascular function.

他还清楚地描述了如果你想增强耐力或增强心血管功能如何训练。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What's highly unique about Dr. Galpin and the information he teaches and the way he communicates that information is that he can take specific recommendations of how recreational exercisers or even professional athletes ought to train for their specific goals and link that to specific mechanisms.

加尔平博士及其教授的信息以及他传达信息的方式的独特之处在于，他可以就休闲锻炼者甚至职业运动员应该如何训练以实现其特定目标提出具体建议，并将其与特定机制联系起来。

That is, the specific changes that need to occur in the nervous system and in muscle fibers, and indeed, right down to the genetics of individual cells in your brain and body in order for those exercise adaptations to occur.

也就是说，神经系统和肌肉纤维需要发生特定的变化，实际上，甚至是大脑和身体中单个细胞的遗传学，以便发生这些运动适应。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's truly rare to find somebody that can span so many different levels of analyses and who is able to communicate all those levels of understanding in such a clear and actionable way.

能够跨越如此多不同层次的分析并且能够以如此清晰和可操作的方式传达所有这些层次的理解的人确实很少见。

Indeed, Dr. Galpin is one of just a handful of people to which I and many others look when they want to make sure that the information that they're getting about exercise is gleaned from quality peer-reviewed studies, hands-on experience with a wide variety of research subjects, meaning everyday people, all the way up to professional athletes in a wide variety of sports.

事实上，加尔平博士是我和许多其他人想要确保他们获得的有关运动的信息是从高质量的同行评审研究、各种研究主题的实践经验中收集的人之一，这些研究对象包括普通人，一直到从事各种运动的专业运动员。

So it's no surprise that he's not only one of the most knowledgeable, but also the most trusted voices in exercise science.

因此，毫不奇怪，他不仅是运动科学领域知识最渊博、也是最值得信赖的声音之一。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Dr. Galpin is also an avid communicator of zero-cost-to-consumer information about exercise science.

Galpin 博士还是一位热衷于向消费者零成本传播运动科学信息的人。

You can find him on Instagram at @drandygalpin and also on Twitter at @DrAndyGalpin.

您可以在 Instagram 上找到他：@drandygalpin，也可以在 Twitter 上找到他：@DrAndyGalpin。

Both places, he provides terrific information about recent studies both from his laboratory and from other laboratories, more in-depth protocols of the sort that you'll hear about today.

在这两个地方，他都提供了有关他的实验室和其他实验室的最新研究的精彩信息，以及您今天将听到的那种更深入的协议。

So if you're not already following him, be sure to do so.

因此，如果您还没有关注他，请务必关注他。

He provides only the best information.

他只提供最好的信息。

He's extremely nuanced and precise and clear in delivering that information.

他在传递这些信息时极其细致、精确和清晰。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm certain that by the end of today's conversation, you'll come away with a tremendous amount of new knowledge that you can devote to your exercise pursuits.

我确信，在今天的谈话结束时，您将获得大量新知识，您可以将这些知识用于您的锻炼追求。

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。

It is however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。

In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。

And now for my discussion with Dr. Andy Galpin.

现在我与安迪·加尔平博士进行讨论。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Welcome, Dr., Professor, Andy Galpin.

欢迎您，安迪·加尔平教授、博士。

It's been a long time coming.

已经很久了。

We have friends in common, but this is actually the first time we've sat down face-to-face.

我们有共同的朋友，但这实际上是我们第一次面对面坐下来。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, I'm very excited.

是的，我很兴奋。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, there are only a handful, meaning about three or four, people who I trust enough in the exercise physiology space that when they speak, I not only listen, but I modify my protocols, and you are among those three or four people.

是的，只有少数人，也就是说大约三四个人，在运动生理学领域我足够信任，当他们说话时，我不仅倾听，而且修改我的协议，而你就是那三四个人中的一员。

First of all, a debt of gratitude.

首先，是一份感恩之情。

Thank you.

谢谢。

You've greatly shaped the protocols that I use, and I know there's far more for me and for others to learn.

您极大地塑造了我使用的协议，我知道我和其他人还有更多东西需要学习。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So you're a professor, you teach in university, and you have a tremendous range of levels of exploration.

所以你是一名教授，你在大学教书，你有广泛的探索层次。

Muscle biopsy, literally images down the microscope, all the way to training professional athletes and everything in between.

肌肉活检，实际上是在显微镜下成像，一直到训练专业运动员以及介于两者之间的一切。

So you are truly an N of one.

所以你确实是N中的一员。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And just to start us off, I would love to have you share with us what you think most everybody or even everybody should know about principles of strength training, principles of endurance training and principles of, let's call it hypertrophy, power and the other categories of training.

首先，我希望您能与我们分享您认为大多数人甚至每个人都应该了解的力量训练原则、耐力训练原则以及我们称之为肥大、力量和其他类别训练的原则。

And this could be very top contour, but what do you think everybody on Planet Earth should know about these categories of personal and athletic development?

这可能是非常重要的轮廓，但是您认为地球上的每个人都应该了解这些个人和运动发展类别吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Well, that's a great first question.

嗯，这是一个很好的第一个问题。

Holy cow.

圣牛。

I think I'll start it this way.

我想我会这样开始。

There's about nine different adaptations you can get from exercise.

您可以通过锻炼获得大约九种不同的适应。

Fat loss is not one of those.

减肥不是其中之一。

It is a byproduct, but that's not really what I'm getting at.

它是一个副产品，但这并不是我真正想要的。

And so, we can kind of categorize everything like that, and we can talk about what are the concepts that you need to hit within each one.

因此，我们可以对所有内容进行这样的分类，然后我们可以讨论每个类别中需要触及的概念是什么。

And then you could have infinite discussion of the different methodologies.

然后你就可以对不同的方法进行无限的讨论。

And so, that first thing to hit is the concepts are actually fairly few, but the methods are many, right?

因此，首先要指出的是，概念实际上相当少，但方法却很多，对吗？

People have said that in iterations throughout time.

人们一直这么说。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So if you walk from the very beginning, the first one to think about is what we'll just call skill.

因此，如果你从头开始，第一个要考虑的就是我们所说的技能。

So this is improving anything from, say, a golf swing to a squatting technique to running.

因此，这正在改善从高尔夫挥杆到蹲下技术再到跑步等各个方面。

And this is just simply mechanically how you want your body to move.

这只是简单地机械地描述你希望你的身体如何移动。

I'm just going to globally call that skill.

我将在全球范围内称呼该技能。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

From there, we're going to get into speed.

从那里开始，我们将加快速度。

This is moving as fast as possible.

这一切正在以尽可能快的速度进行。

The next one is power.

下一个是权力。

And power is a function of speed, but it also a function of the next one, which is strength.

力量是速度的函数，但它也是下一个函数，即力量。

So if you actually multiply strength by speed, you get power.

因此，如果你实际上将力量乘以速度，你就会获得力量。

And the reason I'm making this distinction, by the way, is some of these are very close, and I'm going in a specific order on purpose here.

顺便说一句，我之所以做出这种区分，是因为其中一些非常接近，我在这里故意按照特定的顺序进行。

For example, power is, like I just said, it's a function of speed and strength.

例如，正如我刚才所说，力量是速度和力量的函数。

So if you improved speed, you've also likely improved power.

因此，如果你提高了速度，你也可能提高了力量。

But not necessarily, because it could have come from the force direction either.

但不一定，因为它也可能来自力的方向。

So there's carryover.

所以有结转。

So a lot of things that you would do for the development of strength and power, they are somewhat similar, but then there's differences.

因此，为了发展力量和力量，你会做很多事情，它们有些相似，但也存在差异。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Things that you would do correctly for power would really not develop much strength and vice versa.

为了力量而正确做的事情实际上不会发展出太多力量，反之亦然。

So we can get into all these details later.

所以我们可以稍后讨论所有这些细节。

Once you get past strength.

一旦你的力量过去了。

And the next one kind of down the list is hypertrophy.

列表中的下一种是肥大。

This is muscle size, right?

这是肌肉的大小吧？

Growing muscle mass is one way to think about it.

增加肌肉质量是思考这个问题的一种方式。

After hypertrophy, you get into these categories of, the next one is — these are all globally endurance-based issues.

肥大之后，你会进入这些类别，下一个是——这些都是全球范围内基于耐力的问题。

And the very first one is called muscular endurance.

第一个叫做肌肉耐力。

So this is your ability to do ...

所以这是你的能力...

how many push-ups can you do in one minute?

一分钟内你能做多少个俯卧撑？

Things like that.

诸如此类的事情。

Past muscular endurance, you're now into more of an energetic or even cardiovascular fatigue.

过去的肌肉耐力，你现在变得更加精力充沛，甚至心血管疲劳。

So you've left the local muscle and you're now into the entire physiological system and its ability to produce and sustain work.

因此，您已经离开了局部肌肉，现在进入了整个生理系统及其产生和维持工作的能力。

And we can get into a bunch of differentiations within endurance, but just to keep it really simple right now, the very first one, think about this as I call this anaerobic power.

我们可以在耐力方面进行一系列的区分，但为了保持现在的简单性，第一个，考虑一下我所说的无氧能力。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So this is your ability to produce a lot of work for say 30 seconds to maybe one minute, kind of two minutes like that.

所以这是你在 30 秒到一分钟（大概是两分钟）内完成大量工作的能力。

The next one down then is more closely aligned to what we'll call your VO2 max.

接下来的一项与我们所说的最大摄氧量更接近。

So this is your ability to kind of do the same thing, but more of a time domain of say three to 12 minutes.

所以这是你做同样事情的能力，但更多的是在 3 到 12 分钟的时间范围内。

So this is going to be a maximum heart rate, but it's going to be well past just max heart rate.

所以这将是最大心率，但它会远远超过最大心率。

Then after that we have what I call long-duration endurance.

然后我们就有了我所说的长期耐力。

So this is your ability to sustain work.

所以这是你维持工作的能力。

The time domain doesn't matter in terms of how fast you're going, it's how long can you sustain work.

时域并不重要，重要的是你的速度有多快，重要的是你能维持工作多长时间。

This is 30-plus minutes of no break, like that.

就这样，30多分钟没有休息。

So as just a high-level overview, those are the different things you can target.

因此，作为一个高级概述，这些是您可以瞄准的不同目标。

And again, some of those crossover, and some are actually a little bit contrarian to the other ones.

再说一遍，其中有些是交叉的，有些实际上与其他的有点相反。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So pushing towards one is maybe going to sacrifice something else.

因此，追求其中之一可能会牺牲其他东西。

So as an overall start, that's really what we're looking at.

因此，作为一个整体的开始，这确实是我们所关注的。

Within all of those though, they do have similar concepts in terms of there is a handful of things you have got to do to make all of those things work.

不过，在所有这些内容中，它们确实有相似的概念，即您必须做一些事情才能使所有这些事情发挥作用。

And we could talk about as many of those as you want, but one of them is functionally called progressive overload.

我们可以讨论任意多的这些，但其中之一在功能上被称为渐进式超负荷。

So whichever one you're trying to improve at, if you want to continue to improve, you have to have some method of overload.

因此，无论你想提高哪一方面，如果你想继续提高，你就必须有某种超负荷的方法。

And as you well know, you've talked about a lot.

正如您所知，您已经谈论了很多。

Adaptation physiologically happens as a byproduct of stress.

生理上的适应是压力的副产品。

So you have to push a system.

所以你必须推动一个系统。

So if you continue to do say the exact same workout over time, you better not expect much improvement.

因此，如果你随着时间的推移继续进行完全相同的锻炼，你最好不要期望有太大的改善。

You can keep maintenance, but you're not going to be adding additional stress.

您可以继续进行维护，但不会增加额外的压力。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So in general, you have to have some sort of progressive overload, and we can talk in detail about what that means for each category.

所以总的来说，你必须有某种渐进式超载，我们可以详细讨论这对每个类别意味着什么。

But this could come from adding more weights.

但这可能来自于增加更多的权重。

This could come from adding more repetitions, it could come from doing it more often in the week.

这可能来自于增加更多的重复次数，也可能来自于一周内更频繁地做这件事。

It could come from adding complexity to the movement.

它可能来自于增加机芯的复杂性。

So going from say a partial range of motion to a full range of motion or adding other variables.

因此，从部分运动范围变为全范围运动或添加其他变量。

So there's a lot of different ways to progress, but you have to have some sort of movement forward.

因此，进步的方法有很多，但你必须有某种前进的动力。

So if you have this kind of routine where you've built Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday or something, and you just do that infinitely, you're not going to get very far.

因此，如果你有这样的例行公事，你已经建立了周一、周三和周六之类的时间，并且你只是无限地这样做，那么你不会走得太远。

So that's I guess the most high-level overview of all the things people can go after.

所以我想这就是人们可以追求的所有事物的最高层次的概述。

And then we can go from whatever direction you want from there.

然后我们就可以从那里开始任何你想要的方向。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Well, I'd love to do the deep dive on each one of these for several hours.

嗯，我很乐意花几个小时深入研究其中的每一项。

And I imagine that over time we probably will.

我想随着时间的推移我们可能会的。

I'd love to chat about a couple of these in a bit more depth.

我很想更深入地讨论其中的一些问题。

So in terms of defining what the progressive overload variables are for these different categories, maybe we could hit the two most common combinations of these nine things.

因此，在定义这些不同类别的渐进超载变量方面，也许我们可以找到这九件事的两个最常见的组合。

The first one being strength and hypertrophy, and maybe we could lump power in there, maybe not, you're the exercise physiologist, but strength and hypertrophy, which at least bear some relationship.

第一个是力量和肥大，也许我们可以把力量放在一起，也许不是，你是运动生理学家，但是力量和肥大，它们至少有一些关系。

And then maybe separately we could explore sustained work endurance, this 30 minutes or longer continuously.

然后也许我们可以单独探索持续工作耐力，连续 30 分钟或更长时间。

Because I think many people train in that regime and probably something like VO2 max anaerobic as well because I know that a number of people now incorporate so-called HIT or high-intensity interval training, I think with the hopes of either shortening their workouts and/or gaining some additional cardiovascular benefit.

因为我认为很多人都采用这种方式进行训练，可能还进行最大摄氧量无氧训练，因为我知道现在很多人都采用所谓的 HIT 或高强度间歇训练，我认为希望能够缩短锻炼时间和/或获得一些额外的心血管益处。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So if we could start with strength and hypertrophy.

所以如果我们可以从力量和肥大开始。

I know many people want to be stronger, they want to grow larger muscles or at least maintain what they have.

我知道很多人想要变得更强壮，他们想要长出更大的肌肉，或者至少保持现有的肌肉。

So what are the progressive overload principles that are most effective over time for strength and hypertrophy?

那么随着时间的推移，对于力量和肥大最有效的渐进式超负荷原则是什么？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, okay.

是啊，好吧。

So I'll actually go a little step back.

所以我实际上会退一步。

With every one of those categories I talked about, you have what we call your modifiable variables.

对于我谈到的每一个类别，您都拥有我们所说的可修改变量。

So this is a very short list of all the things you can modify, the different variables within your workout that can be modified, that will change the outcome.

所以这是一个非常简短的列表，列出了您可以修改的所有内容，您的锻炼中可以修改的不同变量，这将改变结果。

Fancy way of saying if you do this differently, then you're going to get a different result.

奇特的说法是，如果你以不同的方式做这件事，那么你就会得到不同的结果。

So modifiable variables, the very first one of those is called choice.

所以可修改的变量，其中第一个称为选择。

So this is the exercise choice that you select.

所以这就是您选择的练习选择。

Now, one of ...

现在，其中一位...

I'm going to go double back here, so I'm kind of doing a little bit of inception.

我要再次回到这里，所以我要做一些准备工作。

So follow me here as I'm going up a layer to come down a couple layers.

所以请跟随我，我将向上一层向下几层。

I have these fundamental laws of strength and conditioning that are kind of like a little bit of a joke, but progressive overload's one of those laws.

我有这些关于力量和体能的基本法则，这有点像一个笑话，但渐进式超负荷就是这些法则之一。

Another one of those laws is your exercises themselves do not determine adaptations.

这些法则的另一条是你的练习本身并不能决定适应性。

So here's what I mean.

这就是我的意思。

If you're like, "I want to get stronger," you can't select an exercise that doesn't determine you getting strong.

如果你想，“我想变得更强壮”，你就不能选择一个不能让你变强壮的运动。

If you don't do the exercise correctly, and I'm not even referring to the technique, that of course matters, but if you don't execute it in the right fashion, then you're not going to get that adaptation.

如果你没有正确地进行练习，我什至没有提到技巧，这当然很重要，但如果你没有以正确的方式执行它，那么你就不会得到这种适应。

So if you choose, "I want to get stronger.

所以如果你选择，“我想变得更强。

I'm going to do a bench press." Well, if you do the wrong set range, the wrong repetition range, the wrong speed, you won't get strength.

我要做卧推。”好吧，如果你的设定范围、重复范围、速度错误，你就不会获得力量。

You maybe get muscular endurance and very little strength adaptation.

你可能会获得肌肉耐力和很少的力量适应。

So the exercise selection itself is important, but it does not determine the outcome adaptation.

所以运动选择本身很重要，但它并不能决定结果的适应。

So the very first thing that you need to think about if you're like, "I want to get stronger or add muscle" is not the exercise choice.

因此，如果您想“我想变得更强壮或增加肌肉”，那么您需要考虑的第一件事不是运动选择。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It is the application of the exercise.

就是练习的应用。

What are the sets?

有哪些套装？

What are the reps or the rest ranges that you're using, that's going to be your primary determinant.

您使用的次数或休息范围是多少，这将是您的主要决定因素。

Now some exercises are certainly better for some adaptations.

现在一些练习对于一些适应来说肯定更好。

For example, a deadlift is probably not a great exercise to do for long duration endurance.

例如，硬拉对于长时间耐力来说可能不是一个很好的练习。

You could theoretically do 30 straight minutes of deadlifting, but it's probably not our best choice.

理论上你可以连续做 30 分钟的硬拉，但这可能不是我们的最佳选择。

It's probably a pretty good choice for strength development.

对于力量发展来说，这可能是一个不错的选择。

'Cause you're going to do a low repetition, high set range.

因为你要做的是低重复次数、高设定范围。

You could theoretically do bicep curls for power, but probably not your best choice, right?

理论上，你可以做二头肌弯举来获得力量，但这可能不是你的最佳选择，对吧？

Single joint isolation movement is not the best for developing power.

单关节隔离运动并不是发展力量的最佳选择。

You've ever done a bicep curl as fast as you possibly can, that's not going to go well.

你曾经以尽可能快的速度完成二头肌弯举，但效果不会很好。

So in theory, any exercise can produce any adaptation given the execution is performed properly.

因此从理论上讲，只要执行得当，任何练习都可以产生任何适应。

So now that we've understood that a little bit, the exercise itself does not determine the adaptation.

现在我们已经明白了一点，练习本身并不能决定适应。

Coming within each one of these categories, exercise choice is an important variable because it does lend you to things like what movement pattern you're in.

在这些类别中的每一个类别中，运动选择都是一个重要的变量，因为它确实可以帮助您了解诸如您所处的运动模式之类的信息。

So in other words, if you want to get stronger and you're thinking, "Okay, what exercise do I do," you need to think a little bit about, "What muscle groups do I want to use," and that's going to be leading you towards the exercise choice.

换句话说，如果你想变得更强壮，并且你在想，“好吧，我该做什么运动”，你需要稍微考虑一下，“我想使用哪些肌肉群”，这将引导你做出运动选择。

For example, "I want to use my quads more." Okay, fine.

例如，“我想更多地使用我的股四头肌。”好吧，好吧。

Maybe you're going to choose more of a front squat-type of variation, a goblet squat.

也许你会选择更多前蹲式的变体，即高脚杯深蹲。

So the load is in front of you.

所以负载就在你面前。

If you want to emphasize maybe more of your hamstrings and glutes, you're going to maybe put a barbell on your back or do a different one.

如果你想更多地强调你的腿筋和臀大肌，你可以在你的背上放一个杠铃，或者做一个不同的动作。

So the exercise choice is important to the prescription because it's going to determine a lot of your success.

因此，运动选择对处方很重要，因为它将在很大程度上决定您的成功。

Another kind of simpler way to think about this: If you are a beginner or moderate to intermediate, or maybe you don't have a coach, you probably want to hedge towards an exercise selection that is a little bit easier technically.

另一种更简单的思考方式是：如果您是初学者或中级到中级，或者您没有教练，您可能希望选择技术上更容易的练习。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So you maybe don't want to do a barbell back squat.

所以你可能不想做杠铃后深蹲。

It's actually a pretty complicated movement.

这实际上是一个相当复杂的动作。

Maybe you want to do a little bit more of, again, a goblet squat or even use some machines or a split squat, something that's a little bit simpler because you don't have a coach, you're not a professional athlete.

也许你想再多做一点高脚杯深蹲，甚至使用一些机器或分腿深蹲，这会更简单一些，因为你没有教练，你不是专业运动员。

The likelihood of success is higher, and the risk has now gone lower.

成功的可能性更高，风险也更低。

So the very first variable within all of these is the exercise choice.

因此，所有这些中的第一个变量是运动选择。

The second one is the intensity.

第二个是强度。

And that refers to, in this context, not perceived effort.

在这种情况下，这指的是不是感知到的努力。

Like, "Wow, that was really intense workout." It is quite literally either a percentage of your one-rep at max or a percentage of your maximum heart rate or VO2 max.

就像，“哇，这真是一次激烈的锻炼。”从字面上看，它要么是最大一次次数的百分比，要么是最大心率或最大摄氧量的百分比。

So for the strength-based things, you want to think about what's the percentage of the maximum weight I could lift one time, and that's what we're going to call one-rep max.

因此，对于基于力量的事情，你需要考虑我一次可以举起的最大重量的百分比是多少，这就是我们所说的一次最大重量。

Or it's a percentage of my heart rate.

或者是我心率的百分比。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So if I tell you to get on a bike, and I want you to do intervals, and I want you at 75%, I'm typically referring to 75% of your max heart rate or VO2 max or something like that.

因此，如果我告诉你骑自行车，我希望你进行间歇训练，我希望你达到 75%，我通常指的是你最大心率或最大摄氧量的 75% 或类似的值。

If I tell you to do squats at 75%, that means 75% of the maximum amount of weight you could lift one time, or close.

如果我告诉你以 75% 进行深蹲，这意味着你一次可以举起的最大重量的 75%，或者接近。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In terms of determining one-rep max, I confess I've never actually taken the one-rep max for any exercise, but I have some internal sense of what that might be or what range it might be.

在确定最多一次代表次数方面，我承认我从未真正在任何练习中采用过最多一次代表次数，但我对它可能是什么或它可能在什么范围有一些内在的感觉。

Is it necessary for people to assess their one-repetition maximum before going into these sorts of programs?

人们在参加此类项目之前是否有必要评估自己的单次重复次数上限？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

No, not at all.

不，一点也不。

I think a more intuitive way is to take a repetition range.

我认为更直观的方法是取重复范围。

Well, you can do this a couple different ways.

嗯，您可以通过几种不同的方式来做到这一点。

So there are equations you can run, and you can just Google these anywhere, and these are called conversion charts.

所以你可以运行一些方程式，你可以在任何地方谷歌这些方程式，这些被称为转换图表。

And so it says, "Okay, if I did 75 pounds on my bench press and I did it eight times ..." You can just run an estimate that says, okay, you're probably going to be able to bench about 95 pounds for one-rep max or something.

所以它说，“好吧，如果我在卧推上做了 75 磅，并且做了八次……”你可以进行一个估计，说，好吧，你可能能够在一次最大重量上卧推约 95 磅或其他。

So that's a very easy conversion chart.

这是一个非常简单的转换图表。

So just pick a load that you feel comfortable with, but it's kind of heavy, but not crazy heavy, and do as many repetitions as you can with a really good technique, and then look what that number would be.

所以，只要选择一个你感觉舒服的负载，它有点重，但不是太重，并用非常好的技术尽可能多地重复，然后看看这个数字是多少。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So conversion is probably safer than doing one-repetition maximum

因此，转换可能比执行一次重复最大值更安全

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

For the general public who has, again, no coaching, it's safer.

对于没有教练的普通公众来说，这更安全。

For a professional athlete, it's not any safer, or not even a professional athlete, but a trained person with a coach.

对于职业运动员来说，这并不是更安全，甚至不是职业运动员，而是受过训练的人与教练。

But for most people, yeah.

但对于大多数人来说，是的。

That's a good way to go about it.

这是一个好方法。

You can also just kind of do it with feel in the sense that, say, you want to do a set of five repetitions and you do the load and you think I could have done one or two more, and then you kind of have an idea of what that number's going to be.

你也可以凭感觉去做，比如说，你想做一组五次重复，你做了负荷，你认为我可以再做一两次，然后你就知道这个数字会是多少。

If you think, "Man, that last one I had to kind of really, really, really get after it," then maybe just call that, that number.

如果你想，“伙计，我必须真的、真的、真的去追寻最后一个”，那么也许就打电话给那个号码吧。

So you don't have to get overly concerned.

所以你不必过度担心。

In fact, when we start getting into these number ranges, you're going to see that they're all ranges.

事实上，当我们开始研究这些数字范围时，您会发现它们都是范围。

We're not going to give a specific 95% for one of these exact reasons.

由于这些具体原因之一，我们不会给出具体的 95%。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It's not that precise for most of them.

对于大多数人来说，这并不是那么精确。

In fact, some of them like hypertrophy have enormous ranges that you like almost can't miss.

事实上，其中一些像肥厚的东西有很大的范围，你喜欢的几乎不能错过。

So the intensity in that case doesn't even matter for the most part because that's not the primary determinant.

因此，在这种情况下，强度在很大程度上并不重要，因为这不是主要决定因素。

Some of these you're going to see intensity is the determinant.

您将看到其中一些强度是决定因素。

And some of these you're going to see volume is the true determinant.

其中一些你会看到数量是真正的决定因素。

So intensity though is the second one.

所以强度是第二个。

Choice was the very first manipulatable variable; intensity was the second one.

选择是第一个可操纵的变量；强度是第二个。

The third one is what we call volume.

第三个就是我们所说的成交量。

And so this is just how many reps and how many sets are you doing?

这就是你做了多少次和多少组？

So if you're going to do three sets of 10, that volume would be 30, right?

所以如果你要做三组，每组 10 个，那么训练量就是 30 个，对吗？

Five sets of five, that volume is 25.

五套五册，本册为25册。

It's just a simple equation.

这只是一个简单的方程式。

How much work are you totally doing?

您总共做了多少工作？

The next one past that is called rest intervals.

下一个过去的时间称为休息时间。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So this is the amount of time you're taking in between, typically, a set.

所以这是你在一组之间所花费的时间。

Then from there you have progression, which is what we started to talk about, this progressive overload.

然后从那里开始，你就会有进步，这就是我们开始谈论的，这种渐进式超负荷。

Are you increasing by weight or reps or rest intervals or complexity or whatever.

您是否增加重量或次数或休息间隔或复杂性或其他什么。

So all of those things can be changed as a method of progression.

因此，所有这些事情都可以作为一种进展方法来改变。

And so maybe you want to go progressing from a single joint exercise, like a leg extension on a machine, and you want to progress by moving to a whole-body movement like a squat.

因此，也许您想从单个关节运动（例如机器上的腿部伸展）开始，并且您希望通过转向全身运动（例如深蹲）来取得进展。

That in of itself, you don't have to change the load or the reps or the rest.

就其本身而言，您不必改变负荷或次数或其他。

That is a representation of progressive overload.

这是渐进性超负荷的表现。

And it's probably a pretty good place to start because number one, especially for beginners, you want to make sure that the movement pattern is correct.

这可能是一个很好的起点，因为第一，尤其是对于初学者来说，您需要确保运动模式是正确的。

Don't worry about intensity, don't worry about rep ranges or any of these things.

不要担心强度，不要担心次数范围或任何这些事情。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You need to learn to move correctly, and you need to give your body some time to develop some tissue tolerance, so that you're not getting overtly sore.

您需要学会正确地移动，并且需要给您的身体一些时间来形成一定的组织耐受性，这样您就不会感到明显的酸痛。

In general, soreness is a terrible proxy for exercise quality.

一般来说，酸痛是运动质量的一个糟糕的指标。

It's a really bad way to estimate whether it was a good or a bad workout, especially for people in that beginner to middle to moderate.

这是一个非常糟糕的方法来评估它是好还是坏的锻炼，特别是对于初级到中级到中级的人来说。

In fact, even that for our professional athletes, we do not use soreness as a metric of a good workout.

事实上，即使对于我们的职业运动员来说，我们也不用酸痛作为良好锻炼的衡量标准。

It's a really bad idea for a bunch of reasons.

出于多种原因，这确实是一个坏主意。

On the same token, because stress is required for adaptation, you don't want to leave at the gym and feel like, "I don't really do much." There has to be there.

出于同样的原因，因为适应需要压力，所以你不想离开健身房并感觉“我真的没有做太多事情”。必须有。

So if you think about soreness on a scale of one to 10, you probably want to spend most of your time in the three.

因此，如果您以 1 到 10 的等级来考虑疼痛，您可能希望将大部分时间花在这三个等级上。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You mean post exercise, in between workouts?

你的意思是运动后、锻炼之间？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And I know we'll talk about recovery extensively later, but if one body part or set of body parts is sore, is that an indication that one should stay out of training?

我知道我们稍后会广泛讨论恢复问题，但如果一个或一组身体部位疼痛，是否表明一个人应该停止训练？

I would imagine the answer is no in most cases.

我想大多数情况下答案是否定的。

And secondarily to that, if a particular muscle is sore, does that mean that muscle is not ready to be trained again?

其次，如果某块肌肉酸痛，是否意味着该肌肉还没有准备好再次训练？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, the answer to both those is the same, which is no, right?

是的，这两个问题的答案都是一样的，都是否定的，对吧？

You can certainly train a sore muscle.

你当然可以训练酸痛的肌肉。

You need to, I guess have a little bit of feel on that, right?

我想你需要对此有一点感觉，对吧？

So if you're sore of like, "Okay," and you're moving around a little bit and you're like, "Man, this is a little bit sore," you can train.

因此，如果您感到疼痛，“好吧”，并且您稍微移动了一下，然后您会说，“伙计，这有点酸痛”，您可以训练。

If you're like, "I can't sit on the couch without crying because my glutes are so sore," we probably don't need to train again.

如果你说，“我坐在沙发上就不能不哭，因为我的臀部太酸了”，我们可能不需要再次训练。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Does whimpering count as crying?

呜咽算不算哭泣？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

In that particular case, I'd say you've actually gone to the place of detriment because now you're going to have to skip a training session, and now you're behind.

在这种特殊情况下，我想说你实际上已经陷入了不利的境地，因为现在你将不得不跳过训练课程，而现在你已经落后了。

So your actual total volume, say, across the month is actually going to be lower because you went way too hard in those workouts, had to take too many days off in between.

所以你的实际总训练量，比如说，整个月实际上会更低，因为你在这些训练中付出了太多的努力，不得不在训练之间休息太多天。

You're going to see that you're going to cover less distance over the course of a month or six month or even a year.

你会发现在一个月、六个月甚至一年的时间内你所走的距离会更短。

So you want to walk a pretty fine line.

所以你想要走得很好。

And for most people, I would say hedge a little bit on the side of less sore than more sore because frequency is very, very important for almost all these adaptations.

对于大多数人来说，我会说，在减轻疼痛方面比减轻疼痛方面要稍微对冲一点，因为频率对于几乎所有这些适应来说都非常非常重要。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The training frequency.

训练频率。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Which is the last modifiable variable, right?

最后一个可修改变量是哪个，对吗？

Frequency, which is how many times per week are you doing that thing?

频率，即你每周做这件事多少次？

So those are our global things that we can play with.

这些是我们可以玩的全球性事物。

So what I'm trying to manipulate, and you can get strength versus hypertrophy, or you know what, I want a little bit of both, all those variables are the things that are going through my mind.

所以我试图操纵的，你可以得到力量与肥大，或者你知道吗，我想要两者都一点，所有这些变量都是我脑子里想的事情。

Which one do I need to move in which direction so that I can get this outcome and not this outcome over here.

我需要朝哪个方向移动哪一个，这样我才能得到这个结果，而不是这里的结果。

For example, some folks might want to get stronger but not put muscle mass on.

例如，有些人可能想变得更强壮，但不想增加肌肉质量。

Some folks are just kind of want both.

有些人就是两者都想要。

And that's a lot of the general public.

这就是很多普通公众。

"I want to get a little stronger and a little bit more muscle." Great.

“我想变得更强壮一点，肌肉更多一点。”伟大的。

But there are instances where people, for performance reasons or for purely personal preference, "I don't want get any more muscle," great.

但在某些情况下，人们出于性能原因或纯粹出于个人喜好，“我不想获得更多肌肉”，这很好。

"But I want to get stronger," awesome.

“但我想变得更强”，太棒了。

If you manipulate those variables correctly, you can get exactly that.

如果你正确地操纵这些变量，你就可以得到准确的结果。

Very little development in muscle size and a lot of development in strength.

肌肉尺寸的发展很少，但力量的发展却很大。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

And this is why we continue to break world records in sports like powerlifting and weight lifting that have weight classes.

这就是为什么我们在举重和举重等不同重量级别的运动中不断打破世界纪录。

So there's a top number that we can hit in terms of body size, but yet we continue to get stronger and faster.

因此，就身体尺寸而言，我们可以达到一个最高数字，但我们仍然会继续变得更强、更快。

So this is very possible if you understand how to manipulate all those variables.

因此，如果您了解如何操纵所有这些变量，这是很有可能的。

So that being said, we can start off with you wanted to go strength and-

话虽这么说，我们可以从你想要增强力量开始，然后-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, strength.

是啊，实力。

And I love that you mentioned the fact that it is possible to increase strength without increasing muscle size, at least not dramatically, because I think it's not just weight class athletes.

我喜欢你提到这样一个事实，即可以在不增加肌肉大小的情况下增加力量，至少不是显着增加，因为我认为这不仅仅是重量级别的运动员。

I know a lot of people who for aesthetic reasons, they'd like to be stronger.

我认识很多人，出于审美原因，他们希望变得更坚强。

They're hearing that having strong bones and strong muscles and tendons is great for longevity and for avoiding injury and so many other features of life, and yet they don't want to fill out progressively larger and larger sizes of clothing.

他们听说，拥有强壮的骨骼、强壮的肌肉和肌腱对于长寿、避免受伤以及生活中的许多其他特征都有好处，但他们不想穿越来越大的衣服。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

And we can go harder to the mechanisms on that piece if you want, or we can save that and come back to it.

如果您愿意，我们可以更加努力地研究该部分的机制，或者我们可以保存它并返回它。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Sure.

当然。

What I'd love to ...

我愿意做什么...

Both.

两者皆有。

What I'd love to know though is if we could define some of these modifiable variables in the context of strengths.

但我想知道的是，我们是否可以在优势的背景下定义其中一些可修改的变量。

So let's say I'm somebody who, I come to you and I say, and let's just say for sake of balance here because she actually does do some weight training.

所以，假设我是这样的人，我来找你，我说，为了平衡起见，我们只是说，因为她实际上做了一些重量训练。

I bring my sister in and I say, "Me and my sister both want to get stronger.

我把我妹妹带进来，我说：“我和我妹妹都想变得更坚强。

What modifiable variables should ...

哪些可修改变量应该...

how should we modify the variables?"

我们应该如何修改变量？”

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Love it.

喜欢它。

All right, great.

好吧，太好了。

I'm going to do inception on you one more time.

我要再给你做一次盗梦空间。

So one of my other laws ...

所以我的其他法律之一......

oh, this one will be fast, I promise ...

哦，这个会很快，我保证......

of strength conditioning is, in general, the default is all joints through all range of motion.

一般来说，力量调节的默认值是所有关节的所有运动范围。

So this is important because it's going to answer your very first question on this strength category.

所以这很重要，因为它将回答你关于这个力量类别的第一个问题。

So in general, the ankle should go through the full range of motion, the ankle; the knee should go through the full range of motion, the knee; the hip, the elbow, et cetera, et cetera, right?

所以一般来说，踝关节应该进行全方位的运动，踝关节；膝盖应进行全方位的运动，膝盖；臀部、肘部等等，对吗？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Across the workout, not in a single movement?

整个锻炼过程，而不是单一动作？

I would hope, unless there's an amazing exercise I haven't heard about.

我希望如此，除非有一项我从未听说过的令人惊叹的练习。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Well, there are some exercises that we're going to call more full body.

嗯，有些练习我们称之为全身练习。

Think about a full snatch.

考虑一下完整的抓举。

You're going to take a lot of your muscles, a lot of your joints through a lot of the range of motions.

在进行大量的运动时，你会用到大量的肌肉和关节。

Other ones like an isolation, we call these single joint exercises.

其他的比如孤立练习，我们称之为单关节练习。

So imagine a bicep curl, you have one joint in that particular case, the elbow moving the shoulder, and everything else is pretty much stable, and this is how we'll differentiate multijoint from single joint movements.

想象一下二头肌弯举，在这种特殊情况下，你有一个关节，肘部移动肩膀，其他一切都非常稳定，这就是我们区分多关节运动和单关节运动的方式。

But yeah, so across, I would even say it doesn't even have to be the day, but maybe throughout the week, try to get every joint through full range of motion.

但是，是的，所以，我什至会说，甚至不必是这一天，但也许整个星期，尝试让每个关节都得到充分的运动。

Now a couple of quick caveats to that.

现在对此有一些简短的警告。

I am not advocating using full range of motion and allowing really bad exercise technique.

我并不是提倡使用全方位的运动并允许非常糟糕的运动技术。

So when I say full range of motion, that's the default.

所以当我说全范围运动时，这是默认值。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

That doesn't mean every single person can do that for every single exercise.

这并不意味着每个人都能在每一项练习中做到这一点。

It means that's where we should be striving to.

这意味着这就是我们应该努力的方向。

And that's our starting point.

这就是我们的起点。

You're going to see a lot less injury and a lot more productivity out of your training sessions.

您将在训练中看到更少的伤害和更高的生产力。

In fact, the science is fairly clear on this one.

事实上，科学对此已经相当清楚了。

Strength development as well as hypertrophy is generally enhanced with a larger range of motion of training.

更大范围的训练通常会增强力量发展和肌肥大。

And the mechanisms are somewhat understood on that.

对此，人们对其中的机制有所了解。

So that being said, if you have to get into, say, a bad position with your, say, low back.

话虽这么说，如果你不得不进入一个糟糕的位置，比如你的下背部。

The spine is a very good one here.

这里的脊柱非常好。

In general, the spine should stay, it's very neutral is what we call it.

一般来说，脊柱应该保持不动，我们称之为非常中立的。

So no, no flexion, no extension, especially in the lumbar region.

所以不，不能弯曲，不能伸展，特别是在腰部区域。

So if you're doing, say, a deadlift and in order to take your knee through a full range of motion, a deadlift, you have to compromise your back position.

因此，如果你正在进行硬拉，并且为了使膝盖进行全方位的运动（硬拉），你必须妥协你的背部位置。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

That's no bueno.

那不是布埃诺。

So caveats there aside, don't kill me, in good positions always.

所以除了警告之外，不要杀我，永远处于有利的位置。

So why that matters is if we walk through strength, the very first thing I'm going to go through is the exercise selection.

所以为什么这很重要，如果我们通过力量训练，我要做的第一件事就是运动选择。

So let's choose an exercise which ideally has a full range of motion or close to it that doesn't induce injury for you.

因此，让我们选择一种理想情况下具有全运动范围或接近全运动范围且不会对您造成伤害的练习。

That you can still maintain good neck and low back and position and everything else.

您仍然可以保持良好的颈部、腰部和姿势以及其他一切。

You feel comfortable with.

你感觉很舒服。

So you can feel strong, but you don't feel like, "Oh.

所以你可以感觉很坚强，但你不会觉得，“哦。

my gosh." If you've never snatched before, having you do a snatch for a maximum, even 75%, like it's a terrible idea.

天哪。”如果你以前从来没有抓举过，让你抓举达到最大，甚至 75%，就像这是一个糟糕的主意。

You're not going to feel confident.

你不会感到自信。

It's going to be a train wreck.

这将是一场火车失事。

I would rather put you on a machine bench press so you can go, "I feel stable, I feel safe here, and I can just express my strength."

我宁愿把你放在机器卧推上，这样你就可以说，“我感觉很稳定，我在这里感到安全，我可以表达我的力量。”

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So exercise choice, in general, full range of motion.

所以运动选择上，一般来说，全方位的运动。

And you want to kind of balance between the movement areas.

你想要在运动区域之间取得某种平衡。

So this is an upper body press.

所以这是上半身推举。

So this is pushing away from you, bench press, things like that.

所以这正在远离你，卧推之类的东西。

Upper body pull, pulling an implement towards you, bent row pull-up.

上半身拉，将工具拉向自己，弯排引体向上。

The pressing should be horizontal, so perpendicular to your body as well as vertical.

按压应该是水平的，因此垂直于你的身体以及垂直。

So this is lifting a weight over top of your head, lifting away from you.

所以这就是将一个重物举过你的头顶，远离你。

The pull version is pulling horizontally to you and pulling vertically down, pull-up, things like that.

拉式版本是向你水平拉动，然后垂直向下拉、上拉，诸如此类。

From the lower body, we typically call these hinges.

从下半身开始，我们通常将这些称为铰链。

It's sort of a funny muscle thing, that no one's going to laugh at but maybe me and you here, is we'll categorize muscles as, or movements, exercises as pushes and pulls.

这是一种有趣的肌肉问题，没有人会嘲笑，但也许我和你在这里，我们会将肌肉分类为推和拉的运动、练习。

So a squat tends to be push because you're pushing away the ground.

所以深蹲往往是推力式的，因为你在推开地面。

A deadlift is a pull 'cause you're pulling the implement up to you.

硬拉是一种拉力，因为你将器械拉向你。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

But in reality, every single exercise is only ever a pull because muscle doesn't push things away.

但实际上，每一次锻炼都只是一种拉力，因为肌肉不会推开东西。

Muscle can only contract and pull on itself.

肌肉只能收缩并拉动自身。

And so again, super nerdy thing that most people are like, "Yeah," and everyone's like, "That's so dumb."

再说一遍，这是一个超级书呆子的事情，大多数人都会说，“是的”，每个人都会说，“那太愚蠢了。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

No, but I think it's a really important point because it also speaks to something I think we'll get into later, which is that posterior chain, anterior chain.

不，但我认为这是非常重要的一点，因为它也谈到了我认为我们稍后会讨论的事情，即后链、前链。

And if that's mysterious to people, it'll become clear before long.

如果这对人们来说很神秘，那么很快就会变得清楚。

Posterior chain, anterior chain makes a lot of sense to me because of the way it's grounded in the firing of motor neurons, which is ultimately what controls muscle.

后链、前链对我来说很有意义，因为它以运动神经元的放电为基础，而运动神经元最终控制肌肉。

So it's also I think-

所以我也认为——

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You and your nerves all the time.

你和你的神经一直都在。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Exactly.

正是如此。

So it also depends on the lens through which one looks at life and exercise.

因此，这也取决于一个人看待生活和锻炼的视角。

Of course, my lens is primarily neuroscience, but I realized that the importance, I like this idea of pushing perpendicularly to the body, overhead pulling both toward the body and from overhead.

当然，我的镜头主要是神经科学，但我意识到了重要性，我喜欢垂直于身体推动、头顶拉向身体和从头顶拉动的想法。

That just makes really good intuitive sense, especially since a lot of people are just listening to this and not watching it.

这确实具有很好的直观意义，特别是因为很多人只是听而不是看。

So in your minds, folks, you can think about pushing away like a punch or overhead lifting something overhead and then pulling toward your midline, or toward your body, rather.

所以，朋友们，在你们的脑海里，你们可以想象像出拳一样推开，或者把东西举过头顶，然后向中线拉，或者向身体拉。

And then pulling yourself up like a pull-up in a PE class for those ...

然后像体育课上的引体向上一样振作起来......

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So the lower body's the same thing.

所以下半身也是一样的。

It's some sort of pushing away, like a squat or a split squat or a lunge or something like that.

这是某种推开的动作，比如深蹲、分腿深蹲、弓步或类似的动作。

And then some sort of, again, we'll call pull or hinge.

然后某种形式，我们再次称之为拉力或铰链。

So a deadlift or Romanian deadlift or hamstring curl, or something, where you're contracting and pulling the thing.

所以硬拉或罗马尼亚硬拉或腿筋弯举，或者其他什么，你要收缩和拉动东西。

And you could split these into a thousand different categories.

你可以将它们分为一千个不同的类别。

If you're really in that field, you're going to want to add a bunch of other ones.

如果你真的在这个领域，你会想要添加一些其他的。

But that's just a rough conception.

但这只是一个粗略的概念。

So if you were going to do a single workout, you could choose four exercises, and you could choose one of each: one press, upper body, press; one upper body pull; one lower body hinge; one lower body press, and then that would be a decently well-rounded exercise.

因此，如果您要进行一项锻炼，您可以选择四种练习，并且您可以选择其中一种：一次推举，上半身，推举;上半身拉一；一个下体铰链；下半身推举，这将是一项相当全面的锻炼。

That's your exercise selection.

这就是你的锻炼选择。

And if you're taking those through a full range of motion, you're at a pretty good spot as close as you can.

如果你能进行全方位的运动，那么你就处于尽可能接近的位置。

The next one is intensity.

下一个是强度。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So if you want to develop strength, this comes back to one of my favorite scientists of all time, who happens to be a nerve guy actually.

因此，如果你想增强力量，这又回到了我一直以来最喜欢的科学家之一，他实际上是一个神经质的人。

And generally I like to shit on nerves as much as I possibly can 'cause I'm a muscle guy, but I have to give Henneman some credit here, and I know you know who that is.

一般来说，我喜欢尽可能地刺激神经，因为我是一个肌肉男，但我必须在这里给亨尼曼一些荣誉，我知道你知道他是谁。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Henneman's size principle.

亨尼曼尺寸原则。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, of course.

是的，当然。

So this is a series of papers I think, and then I think it was in Nature?

所以我认为这是一系列论文，然后我认为它发表在《自然》杂志上？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

At least some of them.

至少其中一些。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, in 1954, '56 or something.

是的，1954 年、56 年什么的。

You can fact check me, I'm sure you will.

你可以事实检查我，我相信你会的。

But he basically outlined this idea that, okay, there's a certain recruitment threshold needed for neurons to fire, and we have muscle fibers in what we'll call fast-twitch muscle fibers and slow-twitch muscle fibers.

但他基本上概述了这个想法，好吧，神经元放电需要一定的募集阈值，并且我们有称为快肌纤维和慢肌纤维的肌纤维。

And in general you're going to activate the slow-twitch ones first because they tend to be associated with low-threshold motor neurons.

一般来说，你会首先激活慢肌神经元，因为它们往往与低阈值运动神经元相关。

It's not exactly that way, but it's close enough.

虽然不完全是这样，但也足够接近了。

Well the only way that you activate some of these higher threshold neurons is to demand the muscle to produce more force.

激活这些较高阈值神经元的唯一方法是要求肌肉产生更多的力量。

And it's fairly specific to force, right?

它是针对武力的，对吗？

It's not something you can do over an endurance thing unless it gets really extreme and fatigue happens.

这不是你可以做的事情，除非它变得非常极端并且发生疲劳。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So in general, the only way to use these big chunks of your muscle, which are incredibly important for aging, by the way — one of the major problems we have with aging developing or development of aging-related issues with muscle is the fact that we lose fast-twitch fibers preferentially, and then we have major problems as we go down the line because we've lost a big chunk of our strength and size.

所以总的来说，使用这些大块肌肉的唯一方法，顺便说一句，这对衰老非常重要——我们在衰老或与肌肉衰老相关的问题的发展中遇到的主要问题之一是我们优先失去快肌纤维，然后我们会遇到重大问题，因为我们失去了很大一部分力量和尺寸。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So you want to make sure these fibers stay alive and intact.

因此，您需要确保这些纤维保持活力且完好无损。

Okay.

好的。

So if that being said, the only way to develop strength is then to challenge the muscle to produce more total force.

因此，话虽如此，发展力量的唯一方法就是挑战肌肉产生更多的总力量。

If you are fairly untrained or new; I guess I should have stated this all at the beginning as well.

如果您还没有受过培训或者是新手；我想我也应该在一开始就说明这一点。

One more inception then I'll stop.

再一次开始，然后我就停下来。

When it comes to this level of detail of exercise prescription, a fairly untrained person is going to respond basically the same to every single thing you do.

当涉及到这种详细程度的运动处方时，一个相当未经训练的人会对你所做的每一件事做出基本相同的反应。

In fact, we've done this in the lab many times.

事实上，我们已经在实验室里做过很多次了。

We've done training studies doing things like 30 minutes of cycling and seeing huge increases in muscle strength and size, which is not a prescription for most people to increase size, but people that are really untrained, if you did plyometrics or strength training or endurance running, they all just get better at everything.

我们做过训练研究，比如骑自行车 30 分钟，发现肌肉力量和尺寸都有了巨大的增加，这并不是大多数人增加尺寸的处方，但对于那些真正未经训练的人来说，如果你进行了增强式训练、力量训练或耐力跑，他们都会在所有方面都变得更好。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So that caveat kind of aside, if you want to be more intentional and more specific to this, to the goal of strength, you need to produce more force.

因此，抛开这个警告不谈，如果你想要更有目的、更具体，为了达到力量的目标，你需要产生更多的力量。

Specificity matters.

特异性很重要。

So we have size principle to help understand this, and we have our laws of specificity, which say SAID principle, right?

因此，我们有尺寸原则来帮助理解这一点，并且我们有特殊性定律，即 SAID 原则，对吗？

Specific adaptation to imposed demand.

对强加需求的具体适应。

So the adaptation you get or the result of your training is going to be a reflection of the demand that you imposed.

因此，您获得的适应或培训结果将反映您所施加的要求。

So if you want to get stronger, you need to impose a demand of strength, not repetitions.

所以如果你想变得更强，你需要强加力量的要求，而不是重复。

So this has to be, the load has to be very high.

所以这必须是，负载必须非常高。

In general, you're probably looking at above 85% of your one-rep max.

一般来说，您可能会看到 85% 以上的一次最大次数。

If you're moderately trained, maybe 75% will work.

如果你接受过适度的培训，也许 75% 的工作就能完成。

Lowly trained, again, everything works, but in general we want to be pressing a load that's very high.

训练程度较低，再次，一切正常，但总的来说，我们希望承受非常高的负荷。

So because the intensity demand is so high, that is going to enforce you to do a low repetition range.

因此，由于强度要求如此之高，这将迫使您进行较低的重复范围。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You can't do 12 reps at 95%.

你不可能以 95% 的速度完成 12 次。

Then it wouldn't be 95% of your one-rep max.

那么它就不会达到您一次最多次数的 95%。

So by definition, true strength training is really going to be in the five repetitions per set or less range.

因此，根据定义，真正的力量训练实际上是在每组重复五次或更少的范围内。

That's where most of it's going to occur with specificity.

这就是大多数事情将发生的地方。

So we've covered choice, intensity, and repetitions.

我们已经讨论了选择、强度和重复。

The total amount of sets that you do is really kind of up to your personal fitness level.

您所做的总组数实际上取决于您的个人健身水平。

If you did as little as three sets for exercise, that's probably enough.

如果您只进行三组锻炼，可能就足够了。

Totally, yeah, totally work sets.

完全，是的，完全是工作集。

So get fully warmed up and build up to that 85%.

因此，充分热身并达到 85%。

Don't just walk into the gym and throw 85% on and go, "Thank you." That's an important distinction.

不要只是走进健身房，投入 85% 的精力，然后说“谢谢”。这是一个重要的区别。

So work your way up.

所以，努力向上吧。

Do some ...

做一些...

A very classic warm-up thing would be a set of 10 at 50%, a set of eight at 60%, a set of maybe eight, again at 70%, and then maybe a set of five at 75%.

一个非常经典的热身动作是一组 10 人，强度为 50%，一组 8 人，强度为 60%，一组可能是 8 人，强度为 70%，然后可能是一组 5 人，强度为 75%。

So two or three or four sets kind of building intensity and lowering the rep range.

因此，可以进行两组、三组或四组训练强度并降低次数范围。

And then you would go after your two or three working sets.

然后你会继续你的两到三个工作组。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Also, in terms of intervals, now because we're trying to ...

另外，就间隔而言，现在因为我们正在努力......

the primary driver of strength is intensity.

力量的主要驱动力是强度。

It's not the volume, it's the intensity.

重要的不是音量，而是强度。

So in order to maintain that, we have to do a low repetition range, but in addition, we also have to have a high rest interval because if we have any amount of fatigue incur, and we have to then reduce the reps or reduce the intensity, we've lost the primary driver, we've lost that main signal.

因此，为了保持这一点，我们必须做较低的重复范围，但除此之外，我们还必须有较高的休息间隔，因为如果我们发生任何程度的疲劳，我们就必须减少次数或降低强度，我们就失去了主要驱动力，我们就失去了主要信号。

So the number we're going to throw out typically is like two to four minutes.

因此，我们通常要丢弃的数字大约是两到四分钟。

So imagine you did, you know your set of bench press, and you did five repetitions at 85%, you probably want to rest two to four minutes before coming back to the bench.

所以想象一下，你知道自己的卧推动作，并且以 85% 的强度重复了 5 次，你可能想在回到卧推凳之前休息两到四分钟。

That doesn't mean you have to sit there on your phone.

这并不意味着您必须坐在那里玩手机。

In fact, please don't.

事实上，请不要这样做。

Everyone will thank you for not doing that, I promise.

我保证，每个人都会感谢你没有这样做。

You can engage other muscle groups.

您可以锻炼其他肌肉群。

This is what we call supersetting.

这就是我们所说的超集。

So you're doing your bench press, and while that two-minute clock is running for your chest, to rest, you can go over and do your deadlifts, and so, you know, you can kind of move back and forth.

所以你在做卧推时，当两分钟的时钟在为你的胸部运行时，为了休息，你可以过去做硬拉，所以，你知道，你可以来回移动。

And this is how you can make strength training not seven-hour workout.

这就是如何进行力量训练而不是七小时锻炼。

If you're a professional athlete, you're going to take that time because you want to maximize the outcome.

如果你是一名职业运动员，你会花时间，因为你想最大化结果。

We've done this actually in our lab too.

我们在实验室里也确实做到了这一点。

Supersets will reduce the strength gains but by a tiny amount, and most of us don't care enough relative to it's going to triple the length of your training session.

超级组会减少力量增益，但幅度很小，而且我们大多数人都不太关心它会让你的训练时间增加三倍。

It's not worth it.

这是不值得的。

So for the average person, I will tell them, yeah, superset.

所以对于普通人来说，我会告诉他们，是的，超级组。

For someone who's trying to break a world record in weight lifting or powerlifting, I don't superset.

对于想要打破举重或举重世界纪录的人来说，我不会进行超级组训练。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Interesting.

有趣。

Yeah, I think I've found that I don't recover particularly well from strength and hypertrophy training.

是的，我想我发现我从力量和增肌训练中恢复得不太好。

So in-

所以在-

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Like in the workout or the next day?

比如在训练中或第二天？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

From workout to workout, unless I keep the total duration of those workouts ...

从一次锻炼到另一次锻炼，除非我保留这些锻炼的总持续时间......

I like to say no more than 60 minutes of work.

我喜欢说工作时间不超过60分钟。

Of real work.

真正的工作。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yep, yep.

是的，是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Maybe 75.

也许75。

Past 75, I find that I just start to ...

过了75岁，我发现我才刚刚开始……

I have to introduce additional rest days or I just get weaker over time.

我必须引入额外的休息日，否则随着时间的推移我会变得越来越虚弱。

So I'd set a kind of a limit at 50 minutes, and then I usually violate that limit.

所以我会设定 50 分钟的限制，然后我通常会违反这个限制。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

Kind of a limit at 50 minutes and then I usually violate that limit and end up doing 60 minutes.

有点限制在 50 分钟，然后我通常会违反这个限制，最终会做 60 分钟。

I'm excited to hear that one can superset exercises as long, as they work different muscle groups, of course.

我很高兴听到人们可以进行超组训练，当然，因为它们可以锻炼不同的肌肉群。

I wouldn't want to do bench press and overhead press superset just because you can, I think that goes without saying for most people, but just to point that out.

我不想仅仅因为可以就做卧推和过头推举超级组，我认为这对大多数人来说是不言而喻的，但只是想指出这一点。

But that I could do some push, pull, push, pull without compromising total intensity that much.

但我可以做一些推、拉、推、拉，而不会对总强度造成太大影响。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I certainly would be willing to give up a rep here or there or a few pounds here or there.

我当然愿意在这里或那里放弃一个代表，或者在这里或那里放弃几英镑。

May I ask whether or not in doing that one gets any even tiny bit or more of additional benefit in terms of cardiovascular work?

请问这样做是否会在心血管工作方面获得一点点或更多的额外好处？

Because I imagine after even a one-rep max, which I've never done as I mentioned, but let's say I get three reps on the overhead press, and then I get four reps on a weighted pull-up, and I'm going back and forth, I'm no doubt going to be breathing harder than if I was sitting there texting away on my phone in between sets.

因为我想象，即使是最多重复一次（我从来没有像我提到的那样做过），但假设我在过头推举上重复了三次，然后在负重引体向上上重复了四次，然后我来回移动，毫无疑问，我的呼吸会比我在组间坐在那里发短信时更加困难。

PART 1 OF 6 ENDS Andy Galpin:

第 1 部分（共 6 部分）结束 安迪·加尔平：

Yep, of course.

是的，当然。

In fact in general, one of the things that I'll present in my class is a giant list of ...

事实上，总的来说，我将在课堂上展示的内容之一是一个巨大的列表......

in fact on the top is all these different exercise adaptations I started the conversation with.

事实上，最上面是我开始对话的所有这些不同的练习适应。

On the vertical column are as many of the physiological potential adaptations one would get.

垂直栏中列出了人们可以获得的尽可能多的生理潜在适应。

Changes in endogenous pH, blood pressure, lymphatic changes, bone density, all these things.

内源性 pH 值、血压、淋巴管变化、骨密度等变化。

You just have this giant list, and then you can run a matrix, and you can start to look at, "Okay, if I do speed training, am I going to see changes in the nervous system?"

你只有这个巨大的列表，然后你可以运行一个矩阵，你可以开始考虑，“好吧，如果我进行速度训练，我会看到神经系统的变化吗？”

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Well, very much so.

嗯，非常如此。

That's the primary actual reason those things work.

这就是这些东西起作用的主要原因。

Very little change in the muscle system.

肌肉系统的变化很小。

It's almost exclusively explained by the central or peripheral nervous system.

这几乎完全由中枢或周围神经系统来解释。

On that same token, are you going to expect many cardiovascular adaptations from speed?

出于同样的原因，您是否会期望速度带来许多心血管适应？

The answer is no, because although we didn't cover it, speed is very low intensity, very low rep range, very high rest.

答案是否定的，因为虽然我们没有介绍它，但速度是非常低的强度，非常低的重复范围，非常高的休息。

Well as you go to strength, and then you go to hypertrophy, you start seeing more and more increases in cardiovascular adaptations because you're doing exactly that.

好吧，当你变得力量，然后你变得肥大时，你开始看到心血管适应能力越来越强，因为你正在这样做。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You're starting to reduce rest and you're starting to increase volume, but you're going to lose things like bone mineral adaptations because the load starts to go down.

你开始减少休息，开始增加训练量，但你会失去像骨矿物质适应这样的东西，因为负荷开始下降。

You can look at this matrix and understand, "If I'm a person who wants to maximize the adaptations I get across my entire physiology for the least amount of work," you can choose these different adaptations to go after that are going to kind of land on these things.

你可以看看这个矩阵并理解，“如果我是一个想要以最少的工作量最大化整个生理学适应能力的人”，你可以选择这些不同的适应措施来实现这些目标。

Exactly as you mentioned, if you're going to take five minutes rest between each rep; so let's say the extreme, you're going to do three sets of one repetition for strength at 95%, you're going to take probably five, maybe seven minutes between each attempt.

正如您所提到的，如果您要在每次代表之间休息五分钟；所以我们假设极端一点，你要做三组，每组重复一次，以达到 95% 的强度，每次尝试之间可能需要 5 到 7 分钟的时间。

You'd better not expect many changes in your resting blood pressure, there's no cardiovascular strain there.

你最好不要期望你的静息血压有太大变化，因为那里不存在心血管紧张。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You're going to put it together in a circuit where you're going to lose some potential strength adaptation, but you're going to gain something there.

你要把它放在一个循环中，你会失去一些潜在的力量适应，但你会在那里获得一些东西。

All these things are, it's not about good or bad or right or wrong, it's always about what advantage do you want and what disadvantage do you want.

所有这些事情，无关好坏或对错，而在于你想要什么优势，想要什么劣势。

I can cut really in to the chase here on one of these things because we'll get to this eventually.

我可以真正切入其中之一，因为我们最终会谈到这一点。

If you want to know the ones that are going to generally give you the most physiological adaptations across the most categories, you're almost always looking for hypertrophy type of training and then this anaerobic conditioning piece that we'll get into.

如果你想知道在大多数类别中哪些通常会给你带来最大的生理适应，你几乎总是在寻找肥大类型的训练，然后是我们将要讨论的无氧调节部分。

That's going to hit the most systems at once.

这将同时影响大多数系统。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's great to know, and we should definitely go a little bit deeper on those types of what the modifiable variables are for those categories because I think that, I'm guessing the vast majority of people want to be a bit stronger, maybe add some, a little bit of muscle or more, make sure their heart is healthy and et cetera.

很高兴知道，我们绝对应该更深入地了解这些类别的可修改变量是什么，因为我认为，我猜绝大多数人都想变得更强壮，也许增加一些肌肉或更多，确保他们的心脏健康等等。

This is wonderful, and I think it's clarifying certainly a lot for me.

这太棒了，我认为这对我来说确实澄清了很多。

For strength, I guess training frequency.

对于力量，我猜是训练频率。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Frequency.

频率。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What should determine training frequency?

训练频率应由什么决定？

I had the great benefit of, long time ago when I was in high school, actually, I paid for a session over the phone with Mike Mentzer.

事实上，很久以前，当我还在读高中时，我就支付了与迈克·门泽尔（Mike Mentzer）通过电话进行通话的费用，这让我受益匪浅。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Oh lovely.

哦，可爱的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The Mike Mentzer.

迈克·门泽尔.

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Sure.

当然。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We got to be friends over time.

随着时间的推移，我们成了朋友。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

High-intensity training.

高强度训练。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

At the time I was pretty young, and my mother kept saying, "Why is this grown man calling the house?" We would talk all the time about training, but he tried to convince me to train once every five to seven days.

那时我还小，妈妈就一直说：“这个大男人怎么给家里打电话呢？”我们一直在谈论训练，但他试图说服我每五到七天训练一次。

Very few sets, very high intensity.

组数很少，强度很高。

I must say, it worked incredibly well.

我必须说，它的效果非常好。

I think with my recovery quotient, which was not very good.

我认为以我的恢复商数来说，这不是很好。

I think it has improved over time.

我认为随着时间的推移它已经有所改善。

It was not very good.

情况不太好。

It was remarkable.

这是非常了不起的。

Of course this was a time when I was-

当然，那是我当时——

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Full of the most animalism you'll ever have in your life.

充满了你一生中最兽性的东西。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I was 14.

那年我14岁。

I was sort of on my own version of anabolics.

我有点像我自己的合成代谢版本。

I was really heavy; I had a long arc of puberty.

我真的很重；我的青春期弧线很长。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

And you were untrained.

而且你没有受过训练。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I was mostly untrained.

我基本上没有受过训练。

I'd been running cross country and skateboarding and playing soccer.

我一直在越野跑、滑板和踢足球。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Doing all the things that are like the antithesis of growing muscle.

做所有与增长肌肉相反的事情。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, it was literally ...

是的，这确实是...

and people would probably say impossible.

人们可能会说不可能。

It was something like 40 pounds of muscle inside of 12 months.

12 个月内大约增加了 40 磅肌肉。

It was crazy.

太疯狂了。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

I would believe that.

我相信这一点。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Then of course that stopped working over time, and then you start going down the odyssey of trying to find the thing that's going to work that well, and you eventually realize that it was because you were untrained.

当然，随着时间的推移，这种方法就不再起作用了，然后你开始苦苦寻找能很好地发挥作用的东西，你最终意识到这是因为你未经训练。

Training frequency is crucial.

训练频率至关重要。

Let's say that people are doing these whole-body workouts, as you've described them, not alternating upper body, lower body, because there's so many different splits that we talked about.

假设人们正在进行全身锻炼，正如您所描述的那样，而不是交替上半身和下半身，因为我们谈到了很多不同的分割。

It probably doesn't make sense to go into splits right now.

现在进行分裂可能没有意义。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

How often can and should one train a muscle?

一个人可以并且应该多久训练一次肌肉？

How do you know if a muscle is recovered locally?

如何知道肌肉是否局部恢复？

How do you know if your nervous system is recovered systemically?

您如何知道您的神经系统是否已全面恢复？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Okay, this is a bunch of really interesting questions.

好吧，这是一堆非常有趣的问题。

I'm not sure exactly what route you want to go.

我不确定你到底想走哪条路线。

I'll start here.

我就从这里开始吧。

As I mentioned earlier, soreness is not a good barometer of exercise quality because some types of training are going to induce more soreness and some are going to induce less.

正如我之前提到的，酸痛并不是运动质量的良好晴雨表，因为某些类型的训练会引起更多的酸痛，而有些则会引起更少的酸痛。

That's important to this conversation because when you ask about how do you know if a muscle is ready to train again, one of the questions is what are you training for?

这对于这次对话很重要，因为当你问如何知道肌肉是否准备好再次训练时，问题之一是你训练的目的是什么？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

If you're training for hypertrophy, muscle size, muscle growth, we need to hedge towards recovery because what you're trying to do is cause a massive insult there.

如果你正在训练肥大、肌肉大小、肌肉生长，我们需要对恢复进行对冲，因为你想要做的就是对那里造成巨大的侮辱。

Allow then protein synthesis to occur.

然后允许蛋白质合成发生。

Building of new tissue, which takes time, 48 to 72 hours at a minimum, that process needs to occur.

构建新组织需要时间，至少需要 48 到 72 小时，这个过程需要发生。

If you're doing actually more strength, and this is a differentiation between hypertrophy and strength, then you didn't induce actually much damage.

如果你实际上做了更多的力量，这是肥大和力量之间的区别，那么你实际上并没有造成太大的伤害。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

In fact, you're generally not going to get very sore from true strength training.

事实上，真正的力量训练通常不会让你感到非常酸痛。

Very little unless you get really heavy or you did it a lot.

很少，除非你变得很重或者你做了很多。

The primary driver of hypertrophy is not the same primary driver of strength.

肥大的主要驱动因素与力量的主要驱动因素不同。

We talked about that already.

我们已经讨论过了。

That's intensity driven for volume, for hypertrophy it's not intensity, so because we have different mechanisms, we have different outcomes, even though they're closely aligned, strength is not going to cause a lot of soreness, therefore intensity is the driver.

这是强度驱动的体积，对于肥大来说不是强度，所以因为我们有不同的机制，我们有不同的结果，即使它们紧密结合，力量不会引起很多酸痛，因此强度是驱动因素。

Therefore frequency can be as high as you want.

因此，频率可以任意高。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You can train every single day, the same exact muscle, if speed or power or strength are the primary training tools, because you need stimulus there.

如果速度、力量或力量是主要训练工具，那么你可以每天训练相同的肌肉，因为你需要那里的刺激。

Skill, as well, practice.

技巧也一样，练习。

You know that as much as anybody.

你和任何人一样都知道这一点。

Developing a new motor pattern requires a lot of repetitions.

开发新的运动模式需要大量重复。

You don't need a tremendous amount of rest.

你不需要大量的休息。

That's not a damaged thing, it's a repatterning issue.

这不是损坏的东西，而是重新图案化的问题。

Strength training, in fact, if you look at, again, true strength professional athletes, they're going to train the same muscles basically every day.

力量训练，事实上，如果你再看看真正的力量专业运动员，他们基本上每天都会训练相同的肌肉。

They're going to squat every day.

他们每天都会蹲着。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Is that because the primary mode of adaptation is recruitment of these high-threshold motor units?

这是因为适应的主要模式是招募这些高阈值运动单位吗？

It's mainly neural?

主要是神经性的吧？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

No. Everyone's going to say that, and this is where I get all feisty.

不，每个人都会这么说，而这就是我生气的地方。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm not saying that.

我不是这么说的。

That was actually, there was a question mark there.

那实际上，那里有一个问号。

If we were online putting comments, there'd be a question mark.

如果我们在网上发表评论，就会有一个问号。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

I would've blocked you.

我会阻止你的。

Just kidding.

只是在开玩笑。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You already blocked me.

你已经屏蔽我了。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Probably twice.

大概两次。

Okay.

好的。

The early adaptations to exercise, especially strength training, are hedged towards the nervous system.

对运动的早期适应，尤其是力量训练，是针对神经系统的。

No question about it.

毫无疑问。

People always say central nervous system, but it's probably more peripheral.

人们总是说中枢神经系统，但它可能更外围。

Whatever.

任何。

Semantics probably, but pedantic.

可能是语义上的，但是很迂腐。

It's nervous.

很紧张。

If you train today, tomorrow morning, you're not going to wake up with a ...

如果你今天训练，明天早上，你就不会醒来......

actually increase in contractile proteins in muscle.

实际上增加了肌肉中的收缩蛋白。

Your muscle might be a little bit bigger due to some acute swelling, but you could have a pretty acute that persists change, and the nervous system, we'll call it, that allows you to be stronger within a couple of days.

由于一些急性肿胀，你的肌肉可能会变大一点，但你可能会发生非常剧烈的持续变化，我们称之为神经系统，它可以让你在几天内变得更强壮。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Sustained hypertrophy is probably more along the lines of four weeks where we can see that.

持续肥大可能更接近四个星期，我们可以看到这一点。

Where we can actually see changes in the ultrasound.

我们实际上可以看到超声波的变化。

Now you're making changes immediately.

现在你要立即做出改变。

That protein synthesis process is happening very fast, and it's going to last.

蛋白质合成过程发生得非常快，而且会持续下去。

It just takes us time to measure it in terms of a noticeable change in your whole muscle size.

我们只是需要时间来衡量整个肌肉大小的明显变化。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

That being said, the first four weeks we typically say are primarily nervous system.

话虽如此，我们通常所说的前四个星期主要是神经系统。

After that, now we're starting to see most of the changes coming from the muscle side of the equation.

在那之后，现在我们开始看到大部分变化来自等式的肌肉方面。

With strength development, it's a combination of three areas.

随着力量的发展，它是三个领域的结合。

In fact, all muscle contraction has these same three things.

事实上，所有肌肉收缩都具有相同的三件事。

It starts off with some signal from somewhere in the body, whether it's all the way up the top or at the level of the spine, depending on if this is a reaction or an actual conscious control.

它从身体某处发出的一些信号开始，无论是从顶部还是在脊柱水平，这取决于这是一种反应还是实际的意识控制。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

From there some signal has to tell the muscle to contract.

从那里必须有一些信号告诉肌肉收缩。

Signal is one.

信号就是其中之一。

Two, it's muscular contraction, and there's a lot of variables inside the muscle tissue itself that determine its functionality.

第二，它是肌肉收缩，肌肉组织本身内部有很多变量决定其功能。

If we took an individual biopsy and took a muscle fiber from you and took one from me, and we took those muscles out and put them in a petri dish, and I tied one end to a force transducer, the other end to a thing that pulls it, and we soaked it in a bath of calcium and a bunch of other stuff, even if they were the same size, your fibers might contract a lot faster than mine, even relative to size, or not, or slower, or there's various properties.

如果我们进行单独的活组织检查，从你身上取出一根肌肉纤维，从我身上取出一根，然后我们取出这些肌肉并将它们放入培养皿中，我将一端绑在力传感器上，另一端绑在拉动它的东西上，然后我们将其浸泡在钙和一堆其他东西中，即使它们大小相同，你的纤维可​​能比我的收缩得快得多，即使相对于大小而言，或者不，或者更慢，或者有各种属性。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

The intrinsic fibers themselves determine a lot of functionality.

内在纤维本身决定了很多功能。

From there, muscle fibers don't cause movements.

从那里开始，肌肉纤维不会引起运动。

Muscle fibers simply contract.

肌肉纤维只是收缩。

They're all surrounded with connective tissue, and that's all surrounded with a bunch of more connective tissue, and that all surrounds into a muscle.

它们都被结缔组织包围，而这些又被更多的结缔组织包围，所有这些都被包围成肌肉。

That muscle is then surrounded with more connected tissue.

然后，该肌肉被更多连接的组织包围。

That all comes together into a giant tendon.

所有这些都汇聚成一根巨大的肌腱。

That tendon attaches to the bone.

该肌腱附着在骨头上。

It's pulling on those tendon that actually move the bone that cause human movement.

它拉动那些真正移动骨骼的肌腱，从而导致人体运动。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

That's area three.

那是第三区。

Area one, the nervous system; area two, the muscle contraction; area three, some sort of connective tissue thing.

第一区，神经系统；第二区，肌肉收缩；第三区，某种结缔组织的东西。

Changes happen at all three of those levels.

所有这三个层面都会发生变化。

We're not even now talking, even you entered the discussion of biomechanics and you changed say the pinnation angle of the muscle, which is the angle at which the muscle fibers lay relative to the bone.

我们现在甚至还没有谈论，即使您进入了生物力学的讨论，并且您改变了肌肉的羽状角度，即肌肉纤维相对于骨骼的角度。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

This is basic mechanics.

这是基本力学。

Is it pulling perpendicular to the bone, is it pulling horizontal to the bone, or some sort of angle?

是垂直于骨骼拉动，还是水平于骨骼拉动，还是某种角度？

All of these things determine human performance.

所有这些都决定了人类的表现。

When you're talking about, again, that strength development, you can see tremendous improvements in total force production by manipulating all of those areas, and you have not touched changes in muscle size.

当您再次谈论力量发展时，您可以看到通过操纵所有这些区域，总力量产生的巨大改善，并且您没有触及肌肉大小的变化。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

If you change muscle size in a true sustained fashion, whether this is sarcoplasmic or contractile proteins, you have given yourself more opportunity to produce more force.

如果你以真正持续的方式改变肌肉的大小，无论是肌浆蛋白还是收缩蛋白，你就给了自己更多的机会产生更多的力量。

It doesn't guarantee you produce more force.

它并不能保证你能产生更多的力量。

Body builders are not stronger than powerlifters even though they have more muscle.

尽管健美运动员拥有更多肌肉，但他们并不比举重运动员更强壮。

Body builders are probably stronger than most people.

健美运动员可能比大多数人都强壮。

There is a relationship between muscle size and strength.

肌肉大小和力量之间存在一定的关系。

It's just not a one-to-one guaranteed ratio.

这只是不是一对一的保证比例。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

That's generally because although the muscle has been aided, they may have not changed the biomechanical considerations, they may have not changed the connective tissue nor the nervous system stuff.

这通常是因为虽然肌肉得到了帮助，但它们可能没有改变生物力学方面的考虑，它们可能没有改变结缔组织或神经系统的东西。

That's why we see this giant relationship that our value is pretty high between strength and hypertrophy, but if you really want to get to the ends of it, it's not.

这就是为什么我们看到力量和肥大之间的巨大关系，我们的价值相当高，但如果你真的想达到目的，事实并非如此。

That matters to your actual question 10 minutes ago because again, you can train strength daily on the same muscle, but if you want to allow for that process of contractile proteins to add and grow, then you're going to have to allow some recovery because if you go back into that muscle too soon, you're going to blunt the response, you're going to stop it, you're going to cut it off.

这对你十分钟前的实际问题很重要，因为同样，你可以每天在同一块肌肉上训练力量，但如果你想让收缩蛋白的过程增加和生长，那么你就必须允许一些恢复，因为如果你太早回到那块肌肉，你就会减弱反应，你就会停止它，你就会切断它。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You have all kinds of problems going on in the cell that are going to just attenuate that growth response.

细胞中存在各种各样的问题，这些问题只会减弱生长反应。

I gave you the answer for strength training.

我给你力量训练的答案。

The answer for hypertrophy is probably less than three out of 10 on level of soreness, you can go again.

肥大的答案可能是低于十分之三的酸痛程度，你可以再去一次。

In general you're probably looking at 72 hours is the optimal window.

一般来说，您可能认为 72 小时是最佳时间段。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

If you trained your shoulders on Monday, you probably don't want to train them again on Tuesday if hypertrophy is the goal.

如果您周一训练了肩膀，那么如果目标是增肌，您可能不想在周二再次训练肩膀。

Maybe Wednesday, maybe Thursday's best.

也许星期三，也许星期四最好。

Something like an every two-to-three-day window is probably, and we know a little bit more now about why that is.

可能每隔两到三天就有一次窗口，我们现在对其中的原因有了更多了解。

The gene cascade, the signaling response happens, well the signaling happens instantaneously within seconds.

基因级联，信号反应发生，信号在几秒钟内瞬间发生。

The gene cascade is probably peaked in the four-hour window, depending on which gene you want to look at.

基因级联可能在四小时窗口内达到峰值，具体取决于您想要查看的基因。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It's just a snapshot.

这只是一个快照。

The protein synthesis process is 24-to-48-hour thing.

蛋白质的合成过程是24到48小时的事情。

It tends to look like let that thing finish and let that signal go back to baseline, and then hit it again, and then hit it again.

它往往看起来像是让那件事完成并让该信号回到基线，然后再次击中它，然后再次击中它。

Now as long as you're providing the nutrients, the recovery should happen, and you should be able to sustain the same work output in the training session, so the stimulus stays high and the recovery's there, and you can now continue to grow muscle.

现在，只要您提供营养，恢复就应该发生，并且您应该能够在训练中维持相同的工作输出，因此刺激保持较高并且恢复就在那里，您现在可以继续生长肌肉。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You mentioned 48 to 72 hours for hypertrophy.

你提到48到72小时肥大。

What if, for whatever reasons, the training split, lifestyle factors, et cetera.

如果出于某种原因，训练分裂、生活方式因素等等怎么办？

Somebody, say, let's use your example, trains shoulders on Monday.

比如说，有人在周一训练肩膀。

Ideally they would train them again on Thursday in their particular instance, somewhere ...

理想情况下，他们会在周四在某个特定的情况下再次训练他们......

Wednesday or Thursday, but they don't.

周三或周四，但他们没有。

They wait until Saturday or Sunday for whatever reason.

无论出于何种原因，他们都会等到周六或周日。

Maybe it's more compatible with their work and other exercise schedule, whatever the reason, are they actually losing hypertrophy that they gained or they've missed a window to induce further hypertrophy?

也许这更适合他们的工作和其他锻炼计划，无论什么原因，他们实际上正在失去他们获得的肥大，还是他们错过了诱导进一步肥大的窗口期？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It's probably better to think about it, the latter.

想一想，或许后者更好。

It's not that you've lost, it's just you've kind of lost an opportunity to make more progress.

并不是你输了，而是你失去了取得更大进步的机会。

I will save you a little bit, and going back to your HIT program, this is the original high-intensity training.

我给你节省一点，回到你的HIT计划，这就是原来的高强度训练。

The Mentzer thing, which is not-

门泽尔的事情，这不是-

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The HIT with one I, not the high-intensity interval training, but high-intensity training.

一I的HIT，不是高强度间歇训练，而是高强度训练。

One set to absolute failure.

一组绝对失败。

Maybe two for each muscle group.

每个肌肉群可能有两个。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Twenty-minute workouts.

二十分钟的锻炼。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Dividing your body into a three-way split and then literally training six times a month, which most people think that is absolutely crazy, there's no way that's going to work.

将你的身体分成三部分，然后每月训练六次，大多数人认为这绝对是疯狂的，这是不可能的。

I can tell you if you are untrained, you grow like a weed.

我可以告诉你，如果你未经训练，你就会像杂草一样生长。

If you train hard enough.

如果你训练足够刻苦的话。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Even if you're trained; look at the people Mike trained.

即使你受过训练；看看迈克训练的人。

He put a lot of bodybuilders on really high levels.

他让很多健美运动员达到了很高的水平。

Now they had the same similar help you had at that timeframe.

现在他们得到了与你当时相同的类似帮助。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Wait, to be very clear, I was not taking exogenous anabolics.

等等，要说得很清楚，我没有服用外源性合成代谢药物。

In fact-

事实上——

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

No, but your endogenous was just as good.

不，但你的内源性也同样好。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I probably was.

我可能是。

I wasn't measuring my levels there, but I probably would.

我没有在那里测量我的水平，但我可能会。

I grew easy, and in general, I tend to grow pretty easily from weight training.

我的成长很容易，总的来说，我通过重量训练很容易成长。

I should say that to Mike's credit, and I think this is an important message, that he was the one who really said, "Look, unless you're going to make a professional career out of it, do not run the health hazards of exogenous hormones.

我应该说这是迈克的功劳，我认为这是一个重要的信息，他真正说过：“听着，除非你想以此为职业，否则不要承受外源性激素对健康的危害。

Certainly not at your age."

当然不是在你这个年纪。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

He deterred me from that, which was great because it never entered my mind.

他阻止了我这样做，这很好，因为它从未进入我的脑海。

It just was one of those things where Mike Mentzer said don't do it.

这只是迈克·门泽 (Mike Mentzer) 说不要做的事情之一。

He had clearly done it.

他显然已经做到了。

He is speaking from an informed place.

他是在消息灵通的地方发表讲话的。

It never entered my mind.

它从来没有进入我的脑海。

Also, what was really wild was I was continuing to run cross country.

另外，真正疯狂的是我继续越野跑。

There was a trade-off there at some point.

在某些时候存在一种权衡。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

A little bit of an interference.

有点干扰。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

When you're young, many people can get away with what at this age would surely place me into a state of overtraining, even at low volume.

当你年轻的时候，很多人都可以逃脱在这个年龄肯定会让我陷入过度训练状态的事情，即使是在低训练量的情况下。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

The whole field on interference effect has changed quite a bit recently, which we could come back to if you want.

最近，整个干扰效应领域发生了很大变化，如果您愿意，我们可以回来讨论。

Just to finish out the idea here with that last question, if you want to take five days or six days in between each muscle group, you can do that.

为了用最后一个问题来完成这个想法，如果你想在每个肌肉群之间休息五天或六天，你可以这样做。

In fact, if you look at the research, it's going to show that frequency is not that important.

事实上，如果你看一下研究，就会发现频率并不是那么重要。

It's not that it's not important, but it can handle changes as long as you get to the same total volume.

并不是说它不重要，而是只要达到相同的总体积，它就可以处理变化。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You can do that, you just have to do a lot more work in that one workout.

你可以做到这一点，你只需要在一次锻炼中做更多的工作。

If you care about the six-week, eight-week thing; if you're like, "I'm in this for the next 60 years," it's probably okay, but it can be there.

如果你关心六周、八周的事情；如果你想，“接下来的 60 年我都会从事这个行业”，这可能没问题，但它可能就在那里。

The challenge with splitting up your training sessions for hypertrophy into smaller numbers like once or twice a week, it's just difficult to get that number.

将增肌训练分成较小的次数（例如每周一次或两次）的挑战是很难获得这个数字。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It's difficult to get that volume done.

完成这个量是很困难的。

Volume-wise, the more recent meta-analyses are going to say that you're probably looking at around 10 working steps per muscle group per week.

就训练量而言，最近的荟萃分析表明，您可能每周会查看每个肌肉群大约 10 个工作步骤。

Seems to be kind of the minimum threshold that you're going to want to hit.

似乎是您想要达到的最低阈值。

If you did three sets of 10 at your shoulders on Monday, three sets of 10 shoulders Wednesday, and three on Friday, that's nine working sets.

如果您周一进行三组肩部训练，每组 10 次，周三进行三组，每组 10 次，周五进行三组，那么就是九组。

If you wanted to do three different shoulder-work exercises on Monday and hit your nine sets, it's not really actually going to be that much different.

如果您想在周一进行三种不同的肩部练习并完成九组，那么实际上并没有太大不同。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

The problem is 10 is kind of the minimum.

问题是 10 是最小值。

You probably want to look for more like 15 to 20, and in fact, well-trained folks, 20, 25.

您可能想要寻找 15 到 20 岁左右的人，事实上，是训练有素的人，20 岁、25 岁。

That becomes very challenging in one workout.

这在一次锻炼中变得非常具有挑战性。

In fact, you're not going to be able to do it.

事实上，你做不到。

That is where, it's not the frequency that looks like it kills you, it's just the fact you have got to get, because the total driver of strength is intensity, but the total driver of hypertrophy is volume.

这就是说，看起来杀死你的并不是频率，而是你必须得到的事实，因为力量的总驱动力是强度，但肥大的总驱动力是体积。

Assumed you're taking it to fatigue or muscular failure.

假设你已经疲劳或肌肉衰竭了。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It's just tough to get enough done.

想要完成足够的工作是很困难的。

If you can and if you want to set your schedule up that way, you'd probably remember, if you do those types of training sessions where you're just going to completely exhaust a muscle, it's going to be sore for a while.

如果可以的话，如果你想以这种方式安排你的日程安排，你可能会记得，如果你进行那些类型的训练，让你的肌肉完全耗尽，它会酸痛一段时间。

You're probably not going to come back.

你可能不会再回来了。

That's, sort of the logic behind that was, let's take this thing to tremendous failure and give it six days to recover.

这背后的逻辑是，让我们让这件事发生巨大的失败，并给它六天的时间来恢复。

It can work.

它可以工作。

It's just not the best.

这只是不是最好的。

I think is one way to think about it, for most people.

我认为对于大多数人来说这是一种思考方式。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's also hard to do those workouts without a training partner if you really want to do them correctly.

如果你真的想正确地进行这些锻炼，那么在没有训练伙伴的情况下也很难进行这些锻炼。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

And stimulants and headphones and all kinds of other things.

还有兴奋剂、耳机和各种其他东西。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Well anyway, yeah, stimulants are not, I certainly don't recommend those.

无论如何，是的，兴奋剂不是，我当然不推荐这些。

Maybe a cup of coffee or two if that's your thing, and some of the safer supplements, but certainly not the sorts of stimulants that the guys in the '70s and '80s were famous for using or still use.

如果你喜欢的话，也许可以喝一两杯咖啡，以及一些更安全的补充剂，但肯定不是 70 年代和 80 年代的人们因使用或仍在使用而闻名的那种兴奋剂。

You talked about repetition ranges broadly for strength training.

您广泛谈论了力量训练的重复范围。

So five or less.

所以五个或更少。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You said frequency could be as often as every day.

你说频率可以是每天一次。

Rest two to four minutes, maybe even longer if you're going for one-repetition maximum.

休息两到四分钟，如果您打算最多重复一次，则可能需要更长的时间。

For hypertrophy, what are the repetition ranges that are effective, and what are the ones that are most effective if one is trying to maximize some of the other variables?

对于肌肥大来说，有效的重复范围是多少？如果试图最大化其他一些变量，最有效的重复范围是什么？

Like, people don't want to spend more than an hour to 75 minutes in the gym because I think that while the rep ranges might be quite broad, as you allude to earlier, there are the practical constraints.

就像，人们不想在健身房花费超过 1 小时到 75 分钟，因为我认为虽然次数范围可能相当广泛，正如您之前提到的，但存在实际限制。

What repetition ranges or percent of one-repetition maximum should people consider when thinking about hypertrophy?

在考虑增肌时，人们应该考虑哪些重复范围或一次重复最大百分比？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Right.

对。

The quick answer there is anywhere between five to 30 reps per set.

最简单的答案是每组重复 5 到 30 次。

That's going to show across the literature pretty much equal hypertrophy gains.

这将在文献中显示出几乎相同的肥大增益。

We can have a really interesting discussion about why that is.

我们可以就其中的原因进行一次非常有趣的讨论。

I'm just remembering one thing from a second ago.

我只记得一秒钟前的一件事。

I want to give a better answer for the frequency.

我想对频率给出更好的答案。

You can do every single week for strength or every single day for strength.

您可以每周进行一次以增强力量，也可以每天进行一次以增强力量。

If you want the what's probably minimally viable, two — twice per week per muscle.

如果你想要什么可能是最低限度可行的，每块肌肉每周两次。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Hamstrings strength twice per week.

每周两次腿筋力量训练。

That's a good number to get most people really strong.

这是一个让大多数人变得真正强大的好数字。

You can do every single day.

你每天都可以做。

You don't need to though.

但你不需要这样做。

I want to make sure that I wasn't saying you have to train a muscle 85% every single day to get it strong.

我想确认一下，我并不是说你必须每天训练 85% 的肌肉才能使其变得强壮。

Two is a good number, three is great, but probably even two is really effective.

两个是一个很好的数字，三个也很好，但即使是两个也可能非常有效。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Got it.

明白了。

This explains the high frequency of training for strength athletes that's always mystified me, and the very long workouts make sense because very long-

这解释了为什么力量运动员的训练频率如此之高，这一直让我感到困惑，而且长时间的训练是有道理的，因为很长——

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

They're going to even train twice a day.

他们甚至每天训练两次。

Even the squat, in the morning squat and the afternoon every day.

就连深蹲，每天早上深蹲和下午深蹲。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

With their eating and their sleeping, they probably don't have time for anything else.

吃饭睡觉之后，他们可能没有时间做其他事情。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

That's why they're pros.

这就是为什么他们是职业选手。

That's their job.

那是他们的工作。

That's what they do.

这就是他们所做的。

Yeah, for hypertrophy.

是的，为了肥大。

Strength training programming is somewhat complicated.

力量训练计划有些复杂。

It's not the danger, but you're going to have to pay one way or the other.

这并不是危险，但你必须以某种方式付出代价。

The risk is a little bit higher because the load's higher, and you have to be a little bit more technically proficient.

风险会更高一些，因为负载更高，而且你必须在技术上更熟练一些。

When it comes to hypertrophy training, the way I like to explain it is it's kind of idiotproof.

当谈到增肌训练时，我喜欢的解释是它是一种简单的训练。

The programming is idiotproof.

编程是防白痴的。

The work is hard though.

虽然工作很辛苦。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Here's your range: anywhere between five reps and 30.

这是你的范围：5 次到 30 次之间。

Can you hit somewhere in there?

你能打到那里的某个地方吗？

Perfect.

完美的。

It's all equally effective.

这一切都同样有效。

You can't screw that up.

你不能搞砸了。

The only caveat for hypertrophy is you have to take it to muscular failure.

对于肥大的唯一警告是你必须让它肌肉衰竭。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And you need enough rest for the adaptation and protein synthesis to occur.

并且您需要足够的休息才能进行适应和蛋白质合成。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yep.

是的。

If you recover faster, you can maybe do it more frequently.

如果你恢复得更快，你也许可以更频繁地这样做。

If you don't, maybe less frequently.

如果不这样做，可能会减少频率。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

By that logic, should people perhaps experiment and figure out what repetition range allows them to recover in concert with the training frequency that they can do consistently?

按照这种逻辑，人们是否应该进行实验并找出什么重复范围可以让他们与他们可以持续进行的训练频率保持一致？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

My recommendation is I think you should actually set your ...

我的建议是我认为你实际上应该设置你的......

use the repetition range as a way to have some variation because most people don't want to go in the gym and do three sets of 10.

使用重复范围作为变化的一种方式，因为大多数人不想去健身房做三组，每组 10 次。

They're going to get very bored very quickly.

他们很快就会感到无聊。

I think you should actually intentionally change the rep schemes for simple sake of having more fun.

我认为你实际上应该故意改变代表方案，只是为了获得更多乐趣。

It is a very different challenge.

这是一个非常不同的挑战。

The mechanisms that are inducing hypertrophy are different, but there's only a maximum amount of growth that one can get.

引起肥大的机制各不相同，但生长的上限是有限的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You have, as best we think it now, and some people actually will espouse that we know really clearly about the mechanisms of muscle hypertrophy.

正如我们现在所认为的那样，有些人实际上会支持我们非常清楚地了解肌肉肥大的机制。

We don't.

我们不这样做。

It's still very much a guessing game, but the three most likely drivers are one, metabolic stress; two, mechanical tension; and then three, muscular damage.

这仍然是一个猜谜游戏，但三个最有可能的驱动因素是：代谢压力；二、机械张力；第三，肌肉损伤。

You don't have to have all three.

你不必拥有这三个。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

One is sufficient.

一个就足够了。

You can have a little bit of one or two, so you get to play here.

你可以吃一点一两个，这样你就可以在这里玩了。

We've already talked about the muscular damage.

我们已经讨论过肌肉损伤。

Again, it's very clear.

再说一遍，这非常清楚。

More damage is not better, but it is somewhat a decent proxy.

伤害并不是越高越好，但它是一个不错的代理。

Again, a little bit of soreness is good, just don't get so sore it's compromising your total volume.

再次强调，有一点酸痛是好事，但不要太酸痛，否则会影响你的总容量。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Mechanical tension is kind of like strength.

机械张力有点像力量。

This is why if you do even sets of five or eight, and you're kind of close to that strength , you will gain a little bit of muscle.

这就是为什么如果你做五组或八组，并且你接近这个力量，你就会获得一点肌肉。

It's not optimal muscle gain, but you're going to gain some because everything of these ...

这不是最佳的肌肉增长，但你会获得一些，因为所有这些......

physiology doesn't cut off at four reps and then five reps is a different thing.

生理学不会在四次重复时停止，然后五次重复是另一回事。

It's always a blend.

它总是混合的。

Think of it as a fading curve.

将其视为一条褪色曲线。

As you get closer to the end, it fades less effective, as you get closer to the middle, it's more effective.

当你接近末端时，它的效果会减弱，当你接近中间时，它会更有效。

Anywhere between eight reps per set to 30, it's equally effective.

每组 8 次到 30 次之间的任意位置，都同样有效。

Past 30, it's going to blend out.

过了30岁，就开始混了。

Past eight to five to four to three, it's going to blend lesser there.

过了八比五、四比三，那里的混合就会减少。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Metabolic stress is one, the damage is the other.

代谢压力是其一，损伤是其二。

Or sorry, mechanical tension is the one that's heavy, muscle damage the other one, the third one is metabolic stress.

或者抱歉，机械紧张是最严重的一种，肌肉损伤是另一种，第三种是代谢压力。

I get a bit of an area of scientific contention, but something's there.

我得到了一些科学争议的领域，但确实有一些东西存在。

I know something's there.

我知道那里有东西。

We're just kind of fumbling to figure out what exactly it is.

我们只是摸索着弄清楚它到底是什么。

Metabolic stress is the burn.

代谢压力就是燃烧。

It's there.

它就在那里。

It's why blood-flow-restriction training probably works.

这就是血流限制训练可能有效的原因。

That's done very light so there's no mechanical tension, there's very little damage, but somehow it induces a good amount of hypertrophy.

这是非常轻的，所以没有机械张力，损伤很小，但不知何故它会引起大量的肥大。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Very painful.

非常痛苦。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Oh boy.

噢，孩子。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I tried this.

我试过这个。

I have a friend, former special operator who lives out on the East Coast and took me through a blood-flow-restriction training protocol in a park.

我有一个朋友，前特种操作员，住在东海岸，他带我在公园里进行了血流限制训练。

I don't think I actually cried.

我不认为我真的哭了。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You probably did.

你可能做到了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I might have cried out once or twice.

我可能哭过一两次。

It was unbelievable.

这太令人难以置信了。

Especially the lower body movements.

尤其是下半身的动作。

Was a humid day.

天气潮湿。

I'll claim a little bit of jelly.

我要一点果冻。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

No, no.

不，不。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It was brutal.

这很残酷。

It was really brutal.

真的很残酷。

I also-

我也——

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Do it on the best day of your life, and it's still brutal.

在你生命中最美好的一天去做这件事，但这仍然是残酷的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay, well that makes me feel a little bit better.

好吧，这让我感觉好一点了。

It was intense and people should know that it is important to use the proper cuffs for these things.

这是激烈的，人们应该知道使用合适的袖口来做这些事情很重要。

I don't have any relationship to any of the companies that sell these cuffs, but the reason is that you actually need to block particular avenues of blood flow.

我与销售这些袖带的任何公司都没有任何关系，但原因是您实际上需要阻止特定的血液流动途径。

You can't simply cinch off a muscle.

你不能简单地收紧肌肉。

You can't tourniquet a muscle and train.

你不能用止血带对肌肉进行训练。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Not a good idea.

这不是一个好主意。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You can actually kill yourself that way.

你实际上可以这样自杀。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, you can get a blood clot.

是的，你可能会出现血栓。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, and so if you're interested in blood-flow-restriction training, I imagine you have some content about this or will at some point, but also there are resources online that people can look up.

是的，所以如果你对血流限制训练感兴趣，我想你有一些关于这方面的内容，或者在某个时候会有一些内容，而且人们也可以在网上查找资源。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

A question about hypertrophy training that I think many people are wondering about: train to failure or don't train to failure, assuming good form?

我想很多人都想知道一个关于增肌训练的问题：假设良好的状态，训练到力竭还是不训练到力竭？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Okay, assuming good form, great.

好吧，假设状态良好，那就太好了。

The answer is both.

答案是两者皆有。

You want to train to failure, but you don't need to go to extreme failure.

你想训练到力竭，但不需要达到极限力竭。

You don't need to necessarily go to that, like, a partner has to lift the barbell off my chest, but you have to get close.

你不一定要这么做，比如，一个伙伴必须把杠铃从我胸前举起来，但你必须靠近。

You have to drive either heavy stress, damage, or pump.

你必须驾驶重压、损坏或泵。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

A really easy practical way to think about this: I heard Mike Izraetel, who runs a company called Renaissance Puritization, years ago, outline this at a NSCA talk, and it was beautiful.

思考这个问题的一个非常简单实用的方法是：几年前，我听到迈克·伊兹拉特尔（Mike Izraetel）经营着一家名为“Renaissance Puritization”的公司，他在 NSCA 的一次演讲中概述了这一点，它很漂亮。

This is the most eloquent way to explain the context about training hypertrophy.

这是解释增肌训练背景的最雄辩的方式。

A way to look for three things in your workout, and let's say that you want a particular muscle to grow.

一种在锻炼中寻找三件事的方法，假设您想要增长某块特定的肌肉。

Let's say you want your glutes to get larger.

假设您希望臀部变大。

When you're doing your glute exercises, number one, are you feeling the glute contract?

当你做臀肌练习时，第一，你感觉到臀肌收缩吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It doesn't have to be there, but that's a good sign if it is.

它不一定存在，但如果存在的话这是一个好兆头。

Okay, let's say, "I didn't really feel my glute contract.

好吧，让我们说，“我并没有真正感觉到我的臀肌收缩。

I felt it more my quads or my back." Okay.

我感觉更多的是我的股四头肌或背部。”好的。

"Did you feel a big pump afterwards?" "No, I didn't really feel a pump there either or during." Okay, great.

“之后你有没有感觉到很大的泵感？” “不，我在那里或期间都没有真正感觉到泵感。”好的，太好了。

Number three, next day.

第三，第二天。

"Did you feel a little bit of soreness there at all?" "No, I didn't." Well that's a very good indication, if you didn't feel it during the workout.

“你有没有感觉到那里有一点酸痛？” “不，我没有。”如果您在锻炼期间没有感觉到的话，这是一个非常好的迹象。

You felt no sort of pump, and it didn't get sore.

你感觉不到任何泵感，也没有感到疼痛。

Don't expect much growth.

不要期望有太大的增长。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Have you distributed the work across a bunch of muscle groups.

您是否将工作分配给了多个肌肉群？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Most likely other muscle groups were too involved.

很可能其他肌肉群也参与其中。

Especially if you're like, "No, but man, my back got really," well that's a really good indication of telling you what the hell was moving.

特别是如果你想，“不，但是伙计，我的背真的变了，”那么这是一个很好的迹象，可以告诉你到底是什么在动。

In terms of targets, if you were to put again a one to 10 scale, how much should I feel it burning during anything less than a three, okay, it's probably not doing much, but a 10 is not better than seven.

就目标而言，如果你再次设定一个从 1 到 10 的等级，那么在低于 3 的情况下我应该感觉到它燃烧了多少，好吧，它可能没有多大作用，但 10 并不比 7 好。

You need to feel it, but it doesn't have to be like, "Oh my gosh, I'm dying here."

你需要感觉到它，但不一定是“天哪，我快死在这里了。”

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Soreness, same barometer.

酸痛，同样的气压计。

If you can get three, three and three, you're probably in a pretty good spot.

如果你能得到三个、三个、三个，那么你可能处于一个很好的位置。

Five, five and five is maybe better, but you don't need to go much past that.

五、五、五也许更好，但你不需要超出这个范围。

I want you to feel the muscle group either working or if you're like, "I didn't feel it much, I didn't really get a pump," but the next day it got really sore, then you're still on a good path.

我希望你感觉到肌肉群在工作，或者如果你想，“我感觉不太好，我没有真正得到泵感”，但第二天它变得非常酸痛，那么你仍然处于良好的状态。

Again, really sore as in, "Woo, little tender," but next day, it's okay.

再次，真的很痛，就像“哇，有点温柔”，但第二天就没事了。

Day after that I could train, no problem.

第二天我就可以训练了，没问题。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

That's really what you want to go after.

这才是你真正想要追求的。

In terms of understanding, is this likely to produce some growth or not?

从理解上来说，这是否可能产生一些增长？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Excellent, excellent.

优秀，优秀。

Very clear parameters and recommendations I know are benefiting me and will benefit a lot of people.

我知道非常明确的参数和建议使我受益，也将使很多人受益。

If you'd be willing to throw out a few sort of sets and parameters that could act as broad guidelines for people who want to explore further.

如果您愿意抛出一些类型的集合和参数，它们可以作为想要进一步探索的人们的广泛指导方针。

I realize that with all these modifiable variables that there's no one-size-fits-all for strength.

我意识到，对于所有这些可修改的变量，没有一种方法可以放之四海而皆准。

I love this five to 30 for hypertrophy.

我喜欢这个 5 到 30 的肥大。

That's pretty broad.

这是相当广泛的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I don't think I've ever done a 30-rep set of anything, but now that you've thrown that out there, I see it as a bit of a challenge.

我不认为我曾经做过 30 次重复的任何事情，但现在你把它扔在那里，我认为这是一个挑战。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You want to know what's awesome about 30?

你想知道30岁有什么了不起的吗？

You're going to get an insane pump, you're going to burn like crazy, but you won't get super sore because the mechanical tension's so low, it's so light.

你会得到疯狂的泵感，你会疯狂地燃烧，但你不会感到超级疼痛，因为机械张力是如此之低，如此之轻。

You can get away with those things, and it's hard because your mind is going to wander.

你可以摆脱这些事情，但这很难，因为你的思绪会走神。

You're going to get up to rep 20, and you're like, I'm done.

当你要做到第 20 次时，你会想，我已经完成了。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You're like, "No, there's a lot left here to get 30." Where like I said, 10 is much easier.

你会说，“不，距离 30 还剩很多。”就像我说的，10 更容易。

You're just like, "Okay, two more, two more." Thirty's like, "I've got 16 more.

你会说：“好吧，再加两个，再加两个。”三十就像，“我还有 16 个。

It's awful."

太糟糕了。”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Counting is work.

数数就是工作。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It's terrible.

太可怕了。

People tend to just kind of check out.

人们往往只是结帐。

Thirty is possible, but a little bit extreme.

三十是可能的，但有点极端。

I would recommend all of them.

我会推荐所有这些。

It's a really fun play.

这真的是一场非常有趣的比赛。

You could do different in the same workout too, by the way.

顺便说一句，你也可以在同一次锻炼中做不同的事情。

You could do one set of 10 push-ups and then take a little break and then do a set of 25.

你可以做一组 10 个俯卧撑，然后稍作休息，然后再做一组 25 个。

You can mix and match these things.

你可以混合搭配这些东西。

There's no magic recipe that has to happen for all those; or do it different.

对于所有这些，没有什么神奇的方法必须发生。或者采取不同的做法。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Mondays are my sets of 10 days, Wednesdays are my set of 20 days, and Fridays are my set of 30 days.

周一是我的 10 天组，周三是我的 20 天组，周五是我的 30 天组。

You can have all kinds of fun there, and it's hard to screw up.

在那里你可以享受到各种各样的乐趣，而且很难搞砸。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Great.

太棒了。

I love that.

我喜欢那个。

That phrase is always reassuring.

这句话总是让人安心。

For strength, is there a sets and reps protocol that is pretty surefire?

对于力量来说，是否有一套绝对可靠的组数和次数协议？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

A way to just think about a really fast answer for power.

这是一种快速思考电源问题的方法。

Well, speed, power and strength is what I just call the three-to-five concept.

嗯，速度、力量和力量就是我所说的三到五的概念。

Pick three to five exercises.

选择三到五个练习。

If you're feeling better that day, choose on the higher end.

如果您当天感觉好些，请选择较高端的。

If you're feeling less that day, or you have a shorter timeframe to train, go less.

如果你那天感觉不太舒服，或者你的训练时间较短，那就减少训练量。

This would be three sets, or three exercises, rather, or five exercises the most.

这将是三组，或者三个练习，或者最多五个练习。

Three to five exercises.

三到五次练习。

Do three to five reps, three to five sets, take three to five minutes rest in between, and do it three to five times a week.

重复三到五次，三到五组，中间休息三到五分钟，每周做三到五次。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

That can be as little as three sets of three, for three exercises, three times a week.

可以少至三组，每组三组，每周三次，进行三次练习。

That's a 20-minute workout three times a week.

即每周 3 次、每次 20 分钟的锻炼。

It can be as high as five sets of five, for five exercises, five days a week.

它可以高达五组，每组五次，每周五天，进行五次练习。

It's very broad and allows people to still stay within the domains of strength and power while still being able to move and contour to their lifestyle and soreness and time and all those things.

它非常广泛，允许人们仍然留在力量和力量的范围内，同时仍然能够根据他们的生活方式、酸痛、时间和所有这些事情移动和轮廓。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

The only differentiator to pay attention to between power and strength is intensity.

力量和力量之间唯一需要注意的区别是强度。

If you want strength, this is now 85% plus of your max.

如果你想要力量，现在是你最大力量的 85% 以上。

If you want power, it needs to be a lot lighter because you need to move more towards the velocity into the spectrum because power is strength multiplied by speed.

如果你想要力量，它需要轻得多，因为你需要更多地向速度移动到频谱中，因为力量是强度乘以速度。

While getting stronger by definition can help power, you probably want to spend more of your time in the 40%-to-70% range, plus or minus.

虽然根据定义变得更强可以帮助提高力量，但您可能希望将更多时间花在 40% 到 70% 的范围（上下）上。

That's it.

就是这样。

Both of them, conceptually, they'll work everything else.

从概念上讲，他们俩都可以处理其他所有事情。

The exercise, the reps, the frequency, all that can be still in the three-to-five range.

练习次数、次数、频率，所有这些都可以保持在三到五的范围内。

Just change the intensity depending on which outcome you want.

只需根据您想要的结果改变强度即可。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The nervous system obviously plays an important role at the level of nerves controlling the contraction of muscle fibers.

神经系统显然在控制肌纤维收缩的神经层面发挥着重要作用。

Of course we have these upper motor neurons, which are the ones that reside in our brain that control the lower motor neurons that control muscle.

当然，我们有这些上运动神经元，它们存在于我们的大脑中，控制控制肌肉的下运动神经元。

This takes us into the realm of where the mind is at during a particular movement.

这将我们带入特定运动期间心灵所处的领域。

To me, this is not an abstract thing.

对我来说，这不是一个抽象的东西。

I can imagine doing workouts that are mainly focused on strength or mainly focused on hypertrophy.

我可以想象进行主要针对力量或主要针对肥大的锻炼。

And in the case of strength, am I trying to move weights, and when I'm trying to generate hypertrophy, am I trying to quote, unquote challenge muscles?

就力量而言，我是否试图移动重量，当我试图产生肥大时，我是否试图引用或取消引用挑战肌肉？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In other words, if I'm just trying to move a weight away from my body, pushing a bench press or an overhead press, I don't know that I want my mind thinking about the contraction of my medial delts.

换句话说，如果我只是试图将重量从身体上移开，进行卧推或过头推举，我不知道我是否希望我的大脑思考三角肌内侧的收缩。

I think I want my mind in getting the weight overhead with the best proper form, best and proper form.

我想我希望我的头脑能以最好的、最恰当的形式、最好和最恰当的形式来承受头顶的重量。

Certainly with hypertrophy training, best and proper form is going to be the target as well.

当然，对于增肌训练，最佳和正确的形式也将成为目标。

That simple, or I should say, subtle mental shift changes the patterns of nerve fiber recruitment.

这个简单的，或者我应该说，微妙的心理转变改变了神经纤维募集的模式。

Can we say to get stronger, focus on moving weights still with proper form and safely, and to get hypertrophy, focus on challenging muscles, still with proper form and safely.

我们可以说，要变得更强壮，专注于以正确的形式安全地移动重量，而要获得肥大，则专注于具有挑战性的肌肉，仍然以正确的形式安全地进行。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It's very fair.

这是非常公平的。

As a snapshot answer, it is very fair to think about.

作为一个快照答案，思考起来是非常公平的。

Intentionality matters for both.

意向性对两者都很重要。

In other words, if you look at some interesting science that's been done on power development and speed development, the intent to move is actually more important than the actual movement velocity.

换句话说，如果你看一些关于力量发展和速度发展的有趣科学，你会发现移动的意图实际上比实际的移动速度更重要。

If you're doing, say, something for power or strength, and you're doing just enough to get the bar up, that will result in less improvements in strength than even if you're moving at the exact same speed, but you're intending to move faster, and this is one of the reasons why good coaching matters.

比如说，如果你正在做一些为了力量或力量的事情，而你所做的只是足以提高杠铃，那么即使你以完全相同的速度移动，但你打算移动得更快，这会导致力量的提高更少，这就是良好的教练很重要的原因之一。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

If you're coaching an athlete through a power workout, especially, and they're doing enough to just lift 50% of their one-rep max, it's not going to generate as much speed development as them trying to move that bar as fast as they can even if the net result is the same barbell velocity.

特别是，如果你通过力量训练来指导运动员，并且他们做了足够的训练，只举起了一次最大重量的 50%，那么即使最终结果是相同的杠铃速度，也不会像他们试图尽可能快地移动杠铃那样产生尽可能快的速度发展。

Turns out, nerves matter.

事实证明，神经很重要。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I was about to say amazing, but as a neuroscientist, if I say amazing that nerves matter, what's amazing to me is what, if I understand correctly what you're saying is that even if the bar is moving at the same speed, same weight, if my internal representation, my thoughts are I'm trying to move this as fast as possible versus I'm just trying to get the bar away from me and get the weight up, I'm going to get different outcomes.

我本来想说令人惊奇，但作为一名神经科学家，如果我说神经很重要，那么对我来说令人惊奇的是，如果我正确理解你所说的是，即使杠铃以相同的速度、相同的重量移动，如果我的内部表征，我的想法是我试图尽可能快地移动它，而不是我只是试图让杠铃远离我并增加重量，我会得到不同的结果。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

This is quality of work.

这就是工作质量。

Did you do enough to just check off the box, or did you actually strive for adaptation?

你是否做了足够多的事情来勾选这个框，或者你是否真的努力适应？

Similar concept actually works for hypertrophy in terms of ...

类似的概念实际上适用于肥大……

there is a handful of very recent studies that have looked at what we'll call the mind-muscle connection.

最近有一些研究探讨了我们所说的精神与肌肉的联系。

This is doing things like imagine a bicep curl, and you're simply looking at and watching your biceps, and you're thinking about contracting it harder.

这就像想象一下二头肌弯举一样，你只是看着并观察你的二头肌，然后你就会考虑更努力地收缩它。

Even though you execute the same repetitions at the same exact intensity, initial indications are the mind-body connection are going to result in more growth than not.

即使你以相同的强度执行相同的重复，初步迹象表明身心联系将带来更多的成长。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You just gave authorization for people to look at their muscles contracting in the gym.

你刚刚授权人们在健身房里观察他们的肌肉收缩。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Please do.

请这样做。

Yeah, of course.

是的，当然。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The selfie is still ruled out.

自拍仍然被排除。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

I'd rather you look at your muscles than your phone.

我宁愿你看你的肌肉而不是你的手机。

I'm fine with it.

我没问题。

Those are initial, we don't have a large depth of research to support that, and maybe some stuff will come and counter, but it does, it matches what folks in that community have been saying for a very long time.

这些都是最初的，我们没有大量深入的研究来支持这一点，也许有些东西会出现并反驳，但它确实与该社区的人们长期以来所说的相符。

There's actually some stuff on simply flexing in between.

实际上有一些东西可以在两者之间简单地弯曲。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

If you've ever seen a bodybuilder, they'll do their set of bicep curls, and then they'll get out, and they'll flex, and they'll check, and they're literally ...

如果你见过健美运动员，他们会做一组二头肌弯举，然后他们会出去，他们会弯曲，他们会检查，他们实际上是......

this is what Arnold did.

这就是阿诺德所做的。

If you go back to "Pumping Iron"-

如果你回到“泵铁”——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

College weight rooms, I should say.

我应该说，大学举重室。

For some reason there's something about that age group, but there's a lot of checking of biceps in college weight rooms for reasons that escape me.

出于某种原因，这个年龄段有一些东西，但在大学举重室里有很多二头肌检查，原因我不明白。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

If you ever interact with my wife, she will be the first to tell you-

如果你和我妻子互动过，她会第一个告诉你——

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

If you ever interact with my wife, she will be the first to tell you, I cannot walk past a mirror without ...

如果你曾经和我的妻子互动过，她会第一个告诉你，我不能不经过镜子......

I'm checking something out.

我正在检查一些东西。

PART 2 OF 6 ENDS Andrew Huberman:

第 2 部分（共 6 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：

That you can't, or that she can't?

你不能，还是她不能？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

I can't.

我不能。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay.

好的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Not her, me.

不是她，是我。

I'm the one that cannot walk past-

我是那个走不过去的人——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

All right, well, then I'll be careful not to disparage that behavior.

好吧，那么我会小心，不要贬低这种行为。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It has nothing to do with the hypertrophy, but I'm a muscle guy, so I'm always thinking and tinkering, right?

这与肥大无关，但我是一个肌肉男，所以我总是在思考和修补，对吧？

Whatever.

任何。

But I think it's very much worth your time to do a higher-quality training session, be more intentional — be present — than just executing the same exact workout.

但我认为，花时间进行更高质量的训练是非常值得的，比仅仅进行同样的训练更有目的性——临场感。

I think that's globally very clear to be to your advantage.

我认为这在全球范围内都很明显对你有利。

So if you're thinking, "I don't want to work out today, I got all this going on," or "I'm tired," or whatever, "I'm just going to do the workout anyways and get through it." Okay, if you can go, "You know what though?

所以，如果你想，“我今天不想锻炼，这一切都在发生”，或者“我累了”，或者其他什么，“无论如何我都会锻炼并完成它。”好吧，如果你可以说，“你知道吗？

I'm going to cut 15 minutes out of this thing.

我打算把这件事删掉 15 分钟。

I'm going to get my head right.

我要调整好心态。

I'm going to go get two 20-minutes of quality work done." That's your best option by far.

我要去完成两个 20 分钟的高质量工作。”这是迄今为止你最好的选择。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You alluded to the fact that even just looking at a particular muscle might benefit in terms of the number of fibers you can recruit or its potential for hypertrophy.

您提到这样一个事实，即使只是观察特定的肌肉也可能会在您可以招募的纤维数量或其肥大的潜力方面受益。

I've heard before, and I certainly have experienced, that muscles that, for whatever reason, genetics or sports that one played, et cetera, muscles that we find that we can contract to the point of almost a slightly painful contraction, seem to grow more readily than muscles that we can't recruit very easily.

我以前听说过，而且我当然也经历过，无论出于什么原因，遗传或参加的运动等等，我们发现我们可以收缩到几乎轻微疼痛的肌肉，似乎比我们不能轻易招募的肌肉更容易生长。

And the reason I mentioned sports that we played earlier is you just have to watch the Olympics to see that swimmers obviously are very good at engaging their lats.

我之所以提到我们之前参加的运动项目，是因为你只需观看奥运会就可以看到游泳运动员显然非常擅长调动背阔肌。

You look at the gymnasts, they seem to be very good at engaging everything, and they go through a huge number of different dynamic movements; that explains that.

你看看体操运动员，他们似乎非常擅长参与一切，他们会经历大量不同的动态动作；这就解释了这一点。

So I find that if people say, "Oh, you know, I can't get stronger in this," or, "My, whatever, body part is weak," in terms of its inability to engage hypertrophy.

所以我发现，如果人们说，“哦，你知道，我在这方面无法变得更强”，或者“我的身体部位很弱”，因为它无法进行肥大。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, I see where you're going.

是的，我知道你要去哪里。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That oftentimes that can be because of an inability to engage those upper motor neurons to deliberately isolate those muscles.

这通常可能是因为无法调动上运动神经元来故意隔离这些肌肉。

Are there ways that people can learn to engage particular muscle groups more effectively over time for sake of hypertrophy or strength, or for cases of trying to overcome injury potential or injury, because imbalances are bad across the board?

随着时间的推移，人们是否可以通过一些方法来学习更有效地调动特定的肌肉群，以实现肌肉肥大或力量增强，或者尝试克服潜在的损伤或损伤，因为不平衡总体上很糟糕？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

This is actually very common, and I think everyone has probably gone through this.

这种情况其实很常见，我想大家大概都经历过这样的情况。

There's some part that you just can't get going.

有些部分你就是无法进行。

For me, that was the lats.

对我来说，那就是背阔肌。

That was the rhomboids, so my back muscles.

那是菱形肌，也是我的背部肌肉。

For years, I couldn't activate my lats or my rhomboids.

多年来，我无法激活我的背阔肌或菱形肌。

These are the muscle groups that connect your shoulder blades.

这些是连接肩胛骨的肌肉群。

So if you try to squeeze your shoulder blades together, that set of muscles there, they're called your rhomboids.

因此，如果您尝试将肩胛骨挤压在一起，那里的那组肌肉就被称为菱形肌。

Your lats, of course, are more vertical and pull you kind up and down.

当然，你的背阔肌更加垂直，可以上下拉动你的身体。

And no matter how many lap pull-downs I did, bent rows, pull-ups, I could never see any development there, no increase in strength, and it took me probably a decade to figure out how the hell to actually get these things on.

无论我做了多少圈下拉、屈体划船、引体向上，我都看不到那里有任何进展，力量没有增加，而且我花了大约十年的时间才弄清楚到底如何才能真正做到这些。

In fact, if you would've asked me even in my college years as a college football player, "Hey, flex your lats, show me your lats." You would've seen no movement there.

事实上，如果你在大学时期问我，作为一名大学橄榄球运动员，“嘿，弯曲你的背阔肌，让我看看你的背阔肌。”你不会看到那里有任何动静。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

When I was doing a pull-up, in that particular case, the only way I could get the bar to move was by using my biceps.

当我做引体向上时，在这种特殊情况下，我能让杠铃移动的唯一方法就是使用我的二头肌。

So it's a synergistic muscle.

所以它是一块协同肌。

It was supposed to be a secondary or tertiary muscle in that movement, but for me it was primer because of my overstrength in my biceps coupled with my lack of activation in the lats.

它应该是该运动中的第二或第三肌肉，但对我来说，它是入门级肌肉，因为我的二头肌力量过大，加上我的背阔肌缺乏激活。

So you're compensating the same movement.

所以你正在补偿相同的运动。

Actually, an easy way to think about this is imagine doing a bent row.

实际上，思考这个问题的一个简单方法是想象做一个弯曲划船。

So imagine you're bent over at a 45-degree or a horizontal angle, and you're going to pull a barbell to your belly button, right?

想象一下，您弯腰成 45 度或水平角，然后将杠铃拉到肚脐上，对吗？

Now you can actually do that exact same movement with very little back muscle activation by simply flexing your elbows more.

现在，只需更多地弯曲肘部，只需很少的背部肌肉激活即可完成完全相同的动作。

And so you think you're ...

所以你认为你是...

The barbell going all the way down, it's coming all the way up to touching my belly, and you think you're doing a great back-development exercise.

杠铃一直向下，一直向上直到触及我的腹部，你认为你正在做一次很棒的背部锻炼练习。

When in fact, because of the way that you're executing the movement, you're getting very little back development.

事实上，由于你执行动作的方式，你获得的背部发育非常少。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

And this is a really good example of why someone has done a specific exercise many, many, many times, but yet failed to see development in a muscle group, which goes back to earlier part of our conversation, which is why exercises themselves do not determine the adaptation.

这是一个很好的例子，说明了为什么有人做了很多很多次特定的练习，但仍然没有看到肌肉群的发展，这可以追溯到我们谈话的前面部分，这就是为什么练习本身并不能决定适应性。

It's the execution that matters, right?

重要的是执行力，对吧？

It's the technique, it's the rep range, all of those are going to determine your actual result.

这是技术，是次数范围，所有这些都将决定您的实际结果。

So if any time you're banging your head against the wall and thinking, "Why am I not getting movement here?" Growth or strength or whatever, it's guaranteed to be one of those areas.

因此，如果任何时候您将头撞在墙上并思考：“为什么我在这里没有动静？”成长或力量或其他什么，它肯定是这些领域之一。

You're probably not getting the muscle groups to activate.

您可能没有激活肌肉群。

In that particular example, just because we're here, imagine doing that bent row.

在那个特定的例子中，仅仅因为我们在这里，想象一下做那个弯曲的划船。

Instead of pulling the barbell to your belly, squeeze your shoulder blades together first as far as they can possibly go, and then bring your elbows up without changing the angle of your elbow.

不要将杠铃拉到腹部，而是先将肩胛骨尽可能地挤压在一起，然后抬起肘部，不要改变肘部的角度。

So in other words, without bringing your hand closer to your shoulder.

换句话说，不要将手靠近肩膀。

So keep that same angle and come up as high as you possibly can, and then finish out the movement.

因此，保持相同的角度并尽可能升高，然后完成动作。

That's going to guarantee a utilization first of the back muscles and finishing with the biceps at the end, which is how that movement is supposed to go.

这将保证首先使用背部肌肉，最后使用二头肌，这就是该运动应该进行的方式。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So how do you coach into that?

那么你如何指导呢？

Well, it can be a number of things.

嗯，这可能有很多原因。

Whenever I'm diagnosing movement quality, I look for a handful of things, but very first one is awareness.

每当我诊断运动质量时，我都会寻找一些东西，但第一个是意识。

You'd be surprised how many folks, when you just simply tell them that muscle group right there, and maybe you give them a tactical prompt, so you touch it, or you put something against it.

当你只是简单地告诉他们那里的肌肉群，也许你给他们一个战术提示，所以你触摸它，或者你在它上面放一些东西时，你会惊讶地发现有多少人。

This is actually why ...

这实际上就是为什么...

Sorry, I'm jumping over the place.

抱歉，我跳过这个地方了。

But this is why things like a belt work very well for actually increasing abdominal strength.

但这就是为什么像腰带这样的东西对于增强腹部力量非常有效。

So a misconception out there is if you wear a belt when you're lifting, then the belt does all the work for you, and your abs get weaker.

因此，有一种误解是，如果你在举重时佩戴腰带，那么腰带会为你做所有的工作，你的腹肌就会变得更弱。

That can happen, but the exact opposite can happen as well.

这种情况可能会发生，但也可能发生完全相反的情况。

So if you take a belt, for example, and you cinch it down really tight, and then you just completely disregard your midsection, you will see a loss of strength in your midsection because now the belt is doing the work.

例如，如果你拿一条腰带，把它系得很紧，然后你完全忽略你的腹部，你会发现你的腹部力量减弱，因为现在是腰带在起作用。

But if you put the belt on just a little bit, kind of tight, to where you get some sensory feedback, and you think about using that belt as a way to activate the core musculature, you'll actually see a higher ...

但如果你把腰带稍微系紧一些，这样你就能得到一些感官反馈，并且你考虑使用这条腰带来激活核心肌肉组织，你实际上会看到更高的……

And if we look at like EMG activation, the core muscles would be activated higher to a greater extent than when the belt is off.

如果我们观察肌电图激活情况，就会发现核心肌肉的激活程度比腰带关闭时更高。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because proprioceptive feedback.

因为本体感受反馈。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Hundred percent.

百分之百。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And for those that are wondering what proprioceptive feedback is.

对于那些想知道什么是本体感受反馈的人来说。

Proprioceptive feedback is that there are nerves that extend out to the muscles that control muscle contractions, but then there are sensory inputs from the skin and muscle that go back into the nervous system, and those work in concert, and that feedback is proprioceptive.

本体感觉反馈是有神经延伸到控制肌肉收缩的肌肉，但随后有来自皮肤和肌肉的感觉输入返回到神经系统，并且这些输入协同工作，并且该反馈是本体感觉。

I think it literally translates to a knowledge of where one's limbs are and what's happening on those limbs.

我认为它的字面意思是了解一个人的四肢在哪里以及这些四肢上发生了什么。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

In space, yep.

在太空中，是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I've seen ...

我见过...

I don't have a training partner, but I've seen in gyms where someone will be training, and someone will tap the muscle of the person who's doing the work ...

我没有训练伙伴，但我在健身房看到有人会训练，有人会拍打正在做这项工作的人的肌肉......

This is consensual tapping of other people's muscles, not walking around gym touching people's muscles, please.

这是自愿地拍打别人的肌肉，而不是在健身房里走来走去触摸别人的肌肉。

To provide that proprioceptive feedback, so that the person doing the exercises becomes more aware of the muscle that they're supposed to be training.

提供本体感觉反馈，以便练习者更加了解他们应该训练的肌肉。

And it seems that that's probably an effective practice.

看来这可能是一种有效的做法。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, I'll give you two examples.

是的，我给你举两个例子。

I'll go to the back with that pulling movement, but then I'll stay in the belt really quickly.

我会通过拉动动作回到后面，但随后我会很快留在腰带上。

A very easy example that you can do right now listening, and I learned this from Brian Mackenzie, our mutual friend, right?

这是一个非常简单的例子，你现在就可以听，这是我从我们共同的朋友 Brian Mackenzie 那里学到的，对吗？

So if you take your hands and open them up, like you make an L with both your hands, and now take those and put them around your waist just above your hip bones.

所以，如果你把手张开，就像你用双手画一个L，然后把它们放在你的腰部，就在你的髋骨上方。

Now what I want you to do is press out as hard as you can on your hands with your core, and you can feel a lot of core activation.

现在我要你做的就是用你的核心尽可能用力按压你的手，你会感觉到很多核心激活。

And most people think core activation is the front of your stomach, right?

大多数人认为核心激活是胃的前面，对吗？

Your six-pack.

你的六块腹肌。

What you need to do is create a cylinder around your back.

你需要做的是在你的背部周围创建一个圆柱体。

So it's the front, it's the side, and it's the back.

所以它是正面，它是侧面，它是背面。

So if you take your two fingers, point them, now; put them just outside your belly button.

所以，如果你现在伸出两根手指，指向它们；将它们放在肚脐外面。

Can you move your fingers by just moving your ab muscles?

只动腹肌就能动手指吗？

Ninety percent of people can do, yes.

百分之九十的人都能做到，是的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Same exact thing: now go to that same position just above what's called your ASIS, your anterior superior iliac spine.

同样的事情：现在转到 ASIS（髂前上棘）上方的同一位置。

Right up that front of your hip bone.

就在你髋骨的前面。

Right in the front.

就在前面。

Can you now move?

现在可以动了吗？

Great.

伟大的。

Fifty percent of people are not going to get any movement there.

百分之五十的人不会在那里有任何活动。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Really?

真的吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Take your thumb and go right above your PSIS.

将拇指放在 PSIS 的正上方。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

My what?

我的什么？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

PSIS, posterior superior iliac spine.

PSIS，髂后上棘。

Now can you move?

现在你可以动了吗？

Most likely, no.

最有可能的是，不。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Sort of if I do a mini, little back extension.

有点像，如果我做一个迷你的、小的背部伸展动作。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Don't — just with your core musculature.

不要——只用你的核心肌肉组织。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Barely.

勉强。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Maybe-

也许-

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Ninety percent of people can't.

百分之九十的人做不到。

If you can't perform that contraction, you can't stabilize your spine.

如果你不能进行这种收缩，你就无法稳定你的脊柱。

So only way to get stabilization in your spine is then to go through hyperextension.

因此，保持脊柱稳定的唯一方法就是进行过度伸展。

And now that's a compression strategy you're putting on your spine.

现在，这就是您对脊柱施加的压缩策略。

It's better than rounding your back like when going forward, but overextension is not great either.

这比向前时弓起背要好，但过度伸展也不好。

So you want to be able to flex the musculature in a cylindric fashion, so you have control.

所以你希望能够以圆柱形的方式弯曲肌肉组织，这样你就可以控制。

So if you go back to our very first things and with your hands open, and you put them right here, and if you're like, "I can't get activation." If you pay attention to your thumb, right?

因此，如果你回到我们最初的事情，张开双手，将它们放在这里，如果你想，“我无法激活。”如果你注意你的拇指，对吗？

Now, just move your thumb.

现在，只需动动拇指即可。

And now you see activation back there, right?

现在你看到那里激活了，对吧？

Boom.

繁荣。

Now if you could imagine turning that on just a little bit, and now notice how I can do this, by the way, at the same time I'm talking, if you have to go, we don't have control, right?

现在，如果你能想象将其打开一点点，现在请注意我如何做到这一点，顺便说一句，同时我正在说话，如果你必须走，我们没有控制权，对吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So you have to be able to separate breath from brace.

所以你必须能够将呼吸与支具分开。

So now if I can put myself in a position, and Kelly Starrett has always said 20%.

所以现在如果我能让自己处于一个位置，Kelly Starrett 总是说 20%。

Give me 20% activation here, and now I can squat, I can hinge, I can jump.

在这里给我 20% 的激活，现在我可以蹲下，我可以铰链，我可以跳跃。

I don't need to be locked down to a hundred percent scream to be able to brace my spine.

我不需要百分百地尖叫才能支撑我的脊椎。

It's going to be ineffective and wasteful.

这将是无效且浪费的。

I want to be here.

我想在这里。

Well, a belt provides that proprioceptive feedback, where I can put it on, 20%, and it just is a reminder if I don't press against the belt, the belt slides and falls down a little bit because it's not on super tight.

嗯，皮带提供了本体感觉反馈，我可以把它戴上，20%，这只是一个提醒，如果我不压紧皮带，皮带会滑动并掉落一点，因为它不是太紧。

If it's on so dang tight, it's doing the work and I forget.

如果它太紧了，它就在工作，而我却忘记了。

So we just want a little bit of feedback there.

所以我们只想要一点反馈。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Same thing with your upper back.

上背部也是如此。

If you're having a difficult time activating those rhomboids or those lats, someone can do a simple thing where they take their finger, put it right between your shoulder blades, and you just tell them things like, "Hey, squeeze my finger.

如果你在激活菱形肌或背阔肌方面遇到困难，有人可以做一个简单的事情，将手指放在你的肩胛骨之间，然后你只需告诉他们，“嘿，挤压我的手指。

Squeeze my finger." As you're doing your bent row or your pull-down.

捏紧我的手指。”当你做屈体划船或下拉动作时。

You can touch the lat, you can do just visualization stuff.

你可以触摸经纬度，你可以做一些可视化的事情。

So just imagine like a 3D rendering of that muscle group, and you're watching that muscle group contract.

因此，想象一下该肌肉群的 3D 渲染，您会看到该肌肉群收缩。

It's very powerful and very effective to do it.

这样做的威力非常大，而且非常有效。

So a touch, a visual, all this stuff can help get people to activate.

所以触摸、视觉，所有这些东西都可以帮助人们激活。

Outside of simple awareness, typically, eccentric overload is a very effective way for activation of a difficult-to-target muscle.

除了简单的意识之外，通常，偏心超负荷是激活难以瞄准的肌肉的非常有效的方法。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So the lowering of the bar or the lowering of the weight?

那么是降低杠铃还是降低重量呢？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

The movement of the weight away from the body is not necessarily always lowering.

重量远离身体的运动不一定总是降低。

Because that depends on what muscle group we're doing, right?

因为这取决于我们正在锻炼的肌肉群，对吗？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I misspoke.

我说错了。

Yeah.

是的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Things like a pull-up.

像引体向上之类的事情。

Okay, so if I'm going to do a pull-up, and I have poor lat activation, I can still get the pull-up muscle movement executed by contraction of the biceps and things like that.

好吧，如果我要做引体向上，而我的背阔肌激活能力较差，我仍然可以通过二头肌的收缩等来进行引体向上的肌肉运动。

However, to make the movement simpler, I'm going to go all the way to the top.

不过，为了让动作更简单，我会一直走到山顶。

So imagine stepping on a box or something going all the way to that top of that pull-up position and starting from there.

因此，想象一下踩在一个盒子或其他东西上，一直走到引体向上位置的顶部，然后从那里开始。

And I want you to simply lower it under control.

我希望你能在控制下简单地降低它。

And so you're just simply breaking the movement down into smaller pieces that allow you to focus on the execution more.

所以你只需将动作分解成更小的部分，这样你就可以更加专注于执行。

It's going to be great.

会很棒的。

Eccentrics are great for strength development, very good for hypertrophy and allow you to focus on control.

离心训练非常有利于力量发展，非常有利于增肌，让你专注于控制。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

I'm willing to bet a huge percentage of you out there who're like, "I've never had a sore lat.

我敢打赌，你们中很大一部分人会说：“我从来没有背阔肌酸痛过。

I've done a lot of pull-ups," and things like that.

我做了很多引体向上”之类的事情。

If you do that eccentric only, you'll probably wake up the next day going, "Oh gosh, I feel it there." And that's the sign.

如果你只做那种奇怪的事，你可能会在第二天醒来时说：“哦天哪，我感觉到了。”这就是标志。

Even if you didn't feel it in the workout, but it got a little sore the next day, keep down that path, and then eventually you'd be able to do a concentric, maybe take a break, maybe do an isometric, where you just hold that position, and eventually work that into a progression where you can do the concentric, eccentric, and isometric portions and get activation.

即使你在训练中没有感觉到，但第二天感觉有点酸痛，继续沿着这条路径走，然后最终你就能够做同心运动，也许休息一下，也许做等长运动，你只需保持这个姿势，最终将其演变成一个渐进的过程，你可以做同心、偏心和等长部分并得到激活。

So that might take you six weeks, might take you six months, but that's generally a pretty good strategy for learning how to activate a muscle group.

因此，这可能需要您六周的时间，也可能需要六个月的时间，但这通常是学习如何激活肌肉群的一个很好的策略。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Terrific suggestions.

很棒的建议。

Is it true that eccentric emphasized movements might require a little bit longer recovery or they lead to more soreness than concentric movements?

与向心运动相比，偏心运动是否需要更长的恢复时间或者会导致更多的酸痛？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

They typically can, but they're also higher force output.

它们通常可以，但它们的力量输出也更高。

So very good for strength development, but they're going to lead on average to more soreness.

对于力量发展非常有好处，但平均而言它们会导致更多的酸痛。

So more potential for intracellular disruption that is going to be associated with pain.

因此，与疼痛相关的细胞内破坏的可能性更大。

There's not as much ...

没有那么多...

People will like to explain muscle soreness as a result of microtrauma and microtears in the muscle, and that can happen, but that's not the norm.

人们喜欢将肌肉酸痛解释为肌肉微创伤和微撕裂的结果，这种情况可能会发生，但这不是常态。

Most of the time it is things like disruption of calcium that's going to lead to excessive swelling, excessive pressure, and that's going to be then translated as extreme pain.

大多数时候，钙的破坏会导致过度肿胀、压力过大，然后转化为极度疼痛。

So that's probably explaining more muscle soreness than actually microtrauma.

因此，这可能可以解释更多的肌肉酸痛，而不是实际的微创伤。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Terrific.

太棒了。

I was going to get to breathing later, but maybe just for now, if we can do a brief little foray into breathing as it relates to weight training.

我本来打算稍后开始呼吸，但也许只是现在，如果我们可以短暂地尝试一下呼吸，因为它与重量训练有关。

Is there a prescriptive for how to breathe during resistance training — here I'm thinking with weights, not necessarily body-weight-only movements, although I suppose it could be — that applies 75% of the time to 75% of the people?

是否有关于如何在阻力训练期间呼吸的规定（这里我考虑的是重量，不一定是仅体重运动，尽管我认为可能如此）适用于 75% 的时间和 75% 的人？

What I was taught, and I'm hoping you're going to tell me this was wrong because then there might be more benefits awaiting me, is that I should exhale on the effort and inhale on the lesser-effort portion of an exercise.

我所学到的，我希望你能告诉我这是错误的，因为这样可能会有更多的好处等待着我，那就是我应该在练习的努力部分呼气，在练习中不那么努力的部分吸气。

Is that true?

这是真的吗？

Is there a better way to breathe?

有没有更好的呼吸方式？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

There is a better way to think about it.

有一个更好的思考方式。

So number one, if you can breathe and brace, then this conversation goes away.

所以第一，如果你能呼吸并振作起来，那么这场谈话就会消失。

So if you can remain ...

所以如果你能留下来...

you can maintain intramuscular intra-abdominal pressure while breathing, then I don't really care when you breathe.

你可以在呼吸的时候维持肌内腹压，那我就不在乎你什么时候呼吸了。

Very challenging to do at very heavy weights.

在非常大的重量下做到这一点非常具有挑战性。

If we flag this on two areas of a paradigm.

如果我们在范式的两个方面标记这一点。

Paradigm one over here, you're going to do a set of 30, and you're going to do front squats where a barbell is sitting on your throat.

这里的范例一是，你要做一组 30 次，并且你要做前蹲，杠铃放在你的喉咙上。

If you don't take a breath, this is going to end one way and one way only, you passing out.

如果你不呼吸，这一切都会以一种方式结束，而且只有一种方式，你就会昏倒。

Clearly has to be some breathing strategy.

显然必须有一些呼吸策略。

The other end of the spectrum is, let's say you're going to do a vertical jump, you don't need any amount of breath there.

另一方面，假设您要进行垂直跳跃，则不需要任何呼吸。

It's never going to happen.

这永远不会发生。

The question is, what about in the middle?

问题是，中间呢？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So I'm doing some sort of strength training there.

所以我在那里做一些力量训练。

Well number one, make sure you're braced, and then you can get away with less need to worry about it.

第一，确保你做好准备，然后你就可以不用担心了。

In general, a decent strategy is to maintain a breathhold during the lowering or eccentric or most dangerous part of the movement, and then you can exhale on the concentric portion.

一般来说，一个不错的策略是在动作的下降或离心或最危险的部分保持屏气，然后你可以在向心部分呼气。

So if the bench press is our example, if you held in, braced, lowered it under control, and now started the concentric pushing away force, and then you wanted to take an expiration during the last half of the concentric portion, that's an okay strategy.

因此，如果卧推是我们的例子，如果你保持住，支撑，在控制下降低它，现在开始向心推力，然后你想在向心部分的后半部分呼气，这是一个不错的策略。

If you're going to do a single rep, you don't need to worry about it.

如果您打算做一次代表，则无需担心。

You can just avoid or omit breathing entirely.

您可以完全避免或省略呼吸。

You're going to be just fine.

你会没事的。

If you're doing more than that, especially three to four to five to seven, eight, you're going to have to have some breathing strategy.

如果你做的次数超过这个数量，尤其是三到四到五到七、八，你就必须有一些呼吸策略。

A very common one is probably every third breath.

一个非常常见的情况可能是每三次呼吸一次。

I'm going to do like ...

我要做的就像...

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Exhale on the third.

第三次呼气。

Reset, rebreathe, something like that.

重置，重新呼吸，诸如此类。

If you feel like you need to breathe after every one, that's okay, but it's going to get wasteful because you have to take time in between reps of sitting there.

如果你觉得每次完成后都需要呼吸，那没关系，但这会变得浪费，因为你必须在坐在那里的次数之间花时间。

If it's a squat, that's different versus a dead lift if you're resting at the bottom.

如果是深蹲，则与在底部休息的硬拉不同。

So there is a little bit of game here.

所以这里有一点游戏。

So in general though, as that 75, 75 kind of really thrown out, you threw out, breathe in through the lowering and exhale on the out.

所以总的来说，当 75、75 真的被扔出去时，你就扔出去，通过降低吸气并在出去时呼气。

If you have to, less reps, don't worry about more reps, then you need to come up with some sort of breathing strategy.

如果你必须这样做，更少的次数，不用担心更多的次数，那么你需要想出某种呼吸策略。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

How about breathing in between sets and maybe even after the workout?

在组间甚至训练后呼吸怎么样？

Yeah, this is something I think a lot of people overlook, and because it is the case that recovery has to do both with the specific activation and to muscles and the nervous system, but also the attacks on the nervous system can also take place between sets.

是的，我认为这是很多人忽视的一点，因为恢复既与特定的激活有关，也与肌肉和神经系统有关，而且对神经系统的攻击也可能发生在组间。

I mean if you're really geared up between sets and you go to adrenaline as high in between sets or close to it as you are during your sets, you can imagine that the recovery would take longer or at least that you're not spending adrenaline in the most efficient way, if there is such a thing.

我的意思是，如果你真的在组间做好了准备，并且你在组间的肾上腺素水平很高，或者接近你在组中的水平，你可以想象恢复会需要更长的时间，或者至少你没有以最有效的方式消耗肾上腺素，如果有这样的事情。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, fair.

是的，公平。

You're not going to see any athlete that I work with just breathe in between.

你不会看到任何和我一起工作的运动员只是在中间呼吸。

Whether it's in between innings or in between rounds, every single one of them is going to go back, sit in the stool, and they're going to immediately be into a breathing routine.

无论是在局之间还是在轮之间，他们每个人都会回去，坐在凳子上，他们将立即进入呼吸习惯。

A very intentional one.

非常有意的一个。

They're a little bit different for every athlete, depending on the sport.

根据运动项目的不同，每个运动员的情况都略有不同。

Even a PGA golfer, there's going to be a, "We just hit our ball, we're moving to the next one, we're going to go into a breathing strategy." Every one of them; it's a huge area of potential benefit and consequence if you're just ignoring it.

即使是 PGA 高尔夫球手，也会有这样的情况：“我们刚刚击球，我们正在转向下一个球，我们将采取呼吸策略。”他们每一个人；如果你忽视它，那么它是一个巨大的潜在利益和后果领域。

In general, we want to do any sort of calming breath, we want to restore.

一般来说，我们想做任何形式的平静呼吸，我们想要恢复。

It depends on what we're combating, are we combating low oxygen or high CO2?

这取决于我们要对抗的是什么，我们是在对抗低氧还是高二氧化碳？

So that strategy is going to be a little bit different, but in general that is a huge time opportunity to get better.

所以这个策略会有点不同，但总的来说，这是一个变得更好的巨大机会。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

In fact, people can go back and listen to some of your earlier episodes where you talked about ...

事实上，人们可以回去听听你之前谈到的一些剧集……

you have spoken about, I think on this show, when neuroplasticity works and if you're losing that opportunity post exercise, you're leaving gains on the table, if you will.

我想你在这个节目中谈到过，当神经可塑性发挥作用时，如果你在锻炼后失去了这个机会，如果你愿意的话，你就会失去收益。

So not only are you going to see everything athletes that I work with mostly have a breathing strategy in competition, we're not going to just finish a workout, high five, drink water and walk out of the gym.

因此，你不仅会看到与我一起工作的所有运动员在比赛中大多都有呼吸策略，我们不会只是完成锻炼、击掌五声、喝水然后走出健身房。

There will be a down-regulation strategy that is heavily involved with some sort of light control as well as breath control, the individual prescription on that.

将会有一个下调策略，该策略与某种光控制和呼吸控制密切相关，这是个人的处方。

There's a ton of variation with what you can do.

您可以做的事情有很多变化。

The easiest thing is do something that calms you down.

最简单的事情就是做一些让你平静下来的事情。

Most likely that's going to be moved towards as much nasal breathing as you can possibly do, and a really easy rule of thumb is a double-exhale length relative to inhale.

最有可能的是，你会尽可能多地用鼻呼吸，一个非常简单的经验法则是相对于吸气的双倍呼气长度。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So if you need to take a four-second inhale, double that time and breathe out for eight seconds.

因此，如果您需要吸气四秒，请将时间加倍并呼气八秒。

Box breathing is fine, so equal inhale, equal hold, equal, exhale, equal hold.

箱式呼吸很好，所以等量吸气、等量憋气、等量呼气、等量憋气。

So four-second inhale, four-second exhale, et cetera.

所以四秒吸气，四秒呼气，等等。

A triangle is fine too.

三角形也不错。

There's a lot of ways; you can get really complicated like what Brian Mackenzie will do, and Rob and those guys have ...

方法有很多；你可以变得非常复杂，就像布莱恩·麦肯齐（Brian Mackenzie）会做的那样，罗布（Rob）和那些家伙......

you can get all kinds of systems for inhale-exhale control, it can be optimized, but some strategy of calm.

你可以获得各种吸气-呼气控制系统，它可以被优化，但需要一些冷静的策略。

We're going to almost always put you on your back or close.

我们几乎总是让你背着或靠近。

And then we're going to cover light.

然后我们要讨论光。

We can do some ...

我们可以做一些...

We've done actually a number of musical interventions as well.

实际上我们也做了一些音乐干预。

But you can just as simple as sit down in a locker room if you have to and just breathe for five minutes.

但如果有必要的话，你可以简单地坐在更衣室里呼吸五分钟。

That alone is going to be productive.

仅此一点就将富有成效。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's great.

太好了。

If you're breathing in the locker room for five minutes, I suggest closing your eyes, or you'll get some funny looks, and if ...

如果你在更衣室里呼吸了五分钟，我建议你闭上眼睛，否则你会看到一些奇怪的表情，如果......

you'll still get funny looks, but you won't see people looking at you.

你仍然会受到奇怪的目光，但你不会看到人们在看你。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, exactly.

是的，完全正确。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I love this.

我喜欢这个。

And I started doing this because you and Brian Mackenzie informed me about this, and it completely changed the rate of recovery for me.

我开始这样做是因为你和布莱恩·麦肯齐告诉我这件事，它完全改变了我的康复速度。

I realized that I was leaving workouts, both endurance workouts and strength hypertrophy workouts, feeling great, but looking at my phone, getting right into email and meetings, not concentrating on my breathing, and all I did was to introduce, on your recommendation, a five-minute down-regulation; so exhale-emphasized breathing, a bunch of different varieties, physiological sighs, box breathing, exhale-emphasized twice as long as the inhale component for five minutes.

我意识到我正在离开锻炼，包括耐力锻炼和力量肥大锻炼，感觉很好，但看着我的手机，直接处理电子邮件和会议，没有专注于我的呼吸，我所做的就是根据你的建议引入五分钟的下调；所以强调呼气的呼吸，一堆不同的变体，生理叹息，盒式呼吸，强调呼气的时间是吸气成分的两倍，持续五分钟。

And I noticed two things: one, I recovered more quickly, workout to workout.

我注意到两件事：第一，每次锻炼我都恢复得更快。

No question about it.

毫无疑问。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

The numbers told me that.

数字告诉我这一点。

And the other is that I used to have this dip in energy that would occur three or four hours after a hard workout.

另一个是，我以前在剧烈锻炼后三四个小时就会出现能量下降的情况。

And I always thought that had to do with the fact that I had generally eaten a meal at some point post workout.

我一直认为这与我通常在锻炼后的某个时候吃过饭有关。

It turns out it wasn't the meal at all.

事实证明这根本不是一顿饭。

It's that adrenaline ramp-up during the workouts; I wasn't clamping that at the end, and so I think eventually it just crashed, and then three or four hours later having a hard time even reading what's on the screen of my computer, thinking maybe it's the screen, maybe it was what I ate for lunch.

这是锻炼过程中肾上腺素的激增；我最后没有夹住它，所以我想最终它崩溃了，然后三四个小时后，我什至很难阅读电脑屏幕上的内容，心想也许是屏幕的问题，也许是我午餐吃的东西。

Turns out the down-regulations allowed me to work through the afternoon with no issues whatsoever.

事实证明，下调规定让我可以毫无问题地工作整个下午。

It's really been quite powerful, and so I'm grateful to you for that, and I think this is something that I think 98% of people are not doing, and it's only five minutes.

它确实非常强大，所以我对此表示感谢，我认为这是我认为 98% 的人没有做的事情，而且只有五分钟。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You didn't even have to do five.

你甚至不必做五个。

Give me three.

给我三个。

If you really have to push it, give me three.

如果你真的必须推动的话，给我三个。

And you can even do this, you can save time, you can do this in the shower if you have to.

你甚至可以这样做，你可以节省时间，如果有必要，你可以在淋浴时这样做。

So you're done, you're finished, drink of water, whatever has to be, and you're getting in a shower, getting ready, just giving three minutes in the shower.

所以你完成了，你完成了，喝了水，不管该做什么，然后你去洗澡，做好准备，只需在淋浴中花三分钟。

It's not ideal, but as little as that it — can pay huge dividends.

这并不理想，但至少可以带来巨大的红利。

You need some sort of internal signal that we're safe.

你需要某种内部信号来表明我们是安全的。

Like throttle down here, we're going to move on.

就像在这里节流一样，我们要继续前进。

That has to happen.

那必须发生。

I could go on and on here, but I think we're making the same point over again.

我可以在这里继续说下去，但我认为我们再次强调了同样的观点。

It's a big deal and do it.

这是一件大事，就去做吧。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

And you're saving energy.

而且您还可以节省能源。

I mean the energy here is neural energy.

我的意思是这里的能量是神经能量。

I think fighters do this.

我认为战士会这样做。

Good fighters learn to do this between rounds.

优秀的拳手会在回合之间学会这样做。

Yeah, sprinters learn to do this between events.

是的，短跑运动员在比赛间隙学习这样做。

I think humans should learn how to do this between any sort of interval-type activity, including work, social engagement.

我认为人类应该学习如何在任何类型的间歇性活动（包括工作、社交活动）之间做到这一点。

I mean this is such a powerful tool.

我的意思是这是一个非常强大的工具。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Do this for one minute after every important, whether it's an individual high-volatile interaction, or if it's a ...

每次重要的事情之后都这样做一分钟，无论是个人的高波动性互动，还是......

you just did a nice 45-minute sprint of work, and you're deep into it or whatever, fine.

你刚刚完成了 45 分钟的工作冲刺，并且你已经深入其中或者其他什么了，很好。

Just give me one minute.

给我一分钟。

Set your alarm, just one minute, and that also will pay dividends.

设置闹钟，只需一分钟，这也会带来好处。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I love it.

我喜欢它。

And as I said, it's made an outsized positive difference on my training but also activities outside my training.

正如我所说，它对我的​​训练以及训练之外的活动都产生了巨大的积极影响。

Which is for me, I'm not a professional athlete, I train for health and because I enjoy it, but when a really hard workout starts to interfere with the ability to do the other things in life ...

对我来说，我不是一名职业运动员，我训练是为了健康，因为我喜欢它，但是当非常艰苦的锻炼开始干扰生活中做其他事情的能力时......

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Of course.

当然。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

..

..

that's not a good situation, so this is really terrific.

这不是一个好的情况，所以这真的很棒。

There's a lot more in each of those categories of strength and hypertrophy, but you've given us a tremendous amount of valuable information there.

力量和肥大的每个类别都有更多内容，但您已经为我们提供了大量有价值的信息。

Maybe now would be a good time to shift to endurance.

也许现在是转向耐力的好时机。

And of the four types of endurance and maybe you could remind us what those are.

关于四种类型的耐力，也许你可以提醒我们它们是什么。

What do you think are the two that most people are seeking or pursuing in terms of health and aesthetics, right?

您认为大多数人在健康和美观方面所寻求或追求的两个是什么，对吗？

I mean realize that we probably have athletes out there as well, but think when I think health and aesthetics, I think, okay, the ability to do sustained endurance, 30-plus minutes of some ongoing activity.

我的意思是意识到我们可能也有运动员，但是当我想到健康和美学时，我想，好吧，有能力进行持续耐力，持续进行 30 分钟以上的活动。

How does one maximize that work?

如何最大限度地发挥这一作用？

What are the modifiable variables?

可修改的变量有哪些？

And then maybe you could tell us what the other major category is that people ought to have in their kit.

然后也许你可以告诉我们人们应该在他们的工具包中拥有的另一个主要类别是什么。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So starting off with exercise choice one thing, as soon as we cross into the endurance world, and this is true for all four of those categories, exercise choice needs to be very concerned with eccentric landing.

因此，从运动选择开始，一旦我们进入耐力世界，对于所有这四个类别都是如此，运动选择需要非常关注偏心着陆。

So you don't need to avoid it, but you need to recognize it relative or compare it against those other strength and speed ones.

所以你不需要避免它，但你需要相对地认识它或将它与其他力量和速度进行比较。

The volume is low on those ones.

这些的音量很低。

So if you have some eccentric absorption, it's okay.

所以，如果你有一些奇怪的吸收，那也没关系。

But as we sort of talked about five minutes ago, more eccentric means greater chance of muscle-damage soreness.

但正如我们五分钟前谈到的那样，越古怪意味着肌肉损伤酸痛的可能性越大。

So if you take something and magnify it across 30 minutes, or even five minutes, but of maximum exertion, you have a recipe for blowing up.

因此，如果你把某样东西放大 30 分钟，甚至 5 分钟，但要尽最大努力，你就有了爆炸的秘诀。

You can imagine, I haven't run in forever, and I've listened to this Huberman Lab podcast, and I'm, "Okay.

你可以想象，我并没有永远跑下去，而且我听了这个休伯曼实验室播客，我说，“好吧。

I'm going to get into my zone 2 training," whatever, and I start jogging.

我要开始我的 2 区训练，”不管怎样，然后我开始慢跑。

I'm going to do, "I remember when I was, I used to be able to do 25," and you just do a 25-minute jog.

我会说，“我记得以前我能跑 25 次”，然后你就跑 25 分钟。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

The amount of eccentric landing that just occurred on every single step because you're never, with running, even slow running.

每一步都会发生偏心着陆的次数，因为你在跑步时永远不会跑得很慢。

You never have two feet on the ground at the same time.

你永远不会有两只脚同时踩在地上。

So it is a one foot, land, one foot, land.

所以它是一英尺土地，一英尺土地。

Your entire body mass plus gravity onto one leg at a time, repeated now hundreds of times.

你的整个身体质量加上重力一次作用在一条腿上，现在重复数百次。

That eccentric landing is going to cause tremendous soreness; your quads are going to go, you're probably going to get shin splints.

这种偏心的着陆会造成巨大的疼痛；你的股四头肌会消失，你可能会接受胫骨夹板。

Those are entirely caused by eccentric landing and when the tissue is not ready to tolerate that.

这些完全是由于偏心着陆以及组织尚未准备好承受这种情况而引起的。

If you're not landing correctly, this is when knee pain happens, back pain, shoulder, neck pain because of movement compensation.

如果你没有正确着陆，就会因为运动代偿而出现膝盖疼痛、背部疼痛、肩膀、颈部疼痛。

So anytime we start pressing to fatigue, let's be very concerned with there.

因此，每当我们开始感到疲劳时，我们都要非常关心这一点。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So my initial recommendation is, start with activities, exercise choice-wise, that are mostly concentric-based.

所以我最初的建议是，从活动开始，有选择地进行锻炼，这些活动大多以同心为基础。

So think about a cycle.

所以考虑一个循环。

So when you're riding on a bike, you're pushing the pedal, but you're never landing and absorbing it.

因此，当您骑自行车时，您会踩踏板，但您永远不会落地并吸收它。

So you could go out and do a 45-minute bike ride, and you're not going to get that sore because there's not a lot of eccentric load.

所以你可以出去骑 45 分钟的自行车，你不会感到那么酸痛，因为没有太多的偏心负载。

Swimming, similar thing here, there's some eccentrics when your hand hits the water, but fairly minimal.

游泳，类似的事情，当你的手接触到水时会有一些奇怪的现象，但相当少。

It's mostly a push, push, push, push, push, no load.

主要是推、推、推、推、推，没有负载。

Rowing, similar thing, mostly concentric.

划船，类似的事情，大多是同心的。

Pushing a sled is fantastic, going uphill running, or even walking hard uphill, all good because they're very minimal landing relative to running downhill, which would be a very, very bad idea to start.

推雪橇太棒了，上坡跑步，甚至艰难上坡，都很好，因为相对于下坡跑步来说，它们的着陆次数非常少，这将是一个非常非常糟糕的开始。

So if you're first jumping into these things, progress your volume for endurance very slowly if it involves eccentric landing.

因此，如果您第一次尝试这些事情，并且涉及偏心着陆，请非常缓慢地提高耐力训练量。

A really bad strategy would be to jump in and do, say, circuit-training class that involves a bunch of box jumps, right?

一个非常糟糕的策略是跳进去参加，比如说，涉及一系列跳箱的循环训练课程，对吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

This is not a good way to do your first foray into conditioning.

这不是第一次尝试体能训练的好方法。

You're going to get incredibly sore because you're jumping and then landing, you're now looking at three to 10x body weight, in terms of absorption, with a single land, even if you're just jumping.

你会感到非常酸痛，因为你先跳跃然后落地，就吸收而言，你现在看到的是体重的 3 到 10 倍，单次落地，即使你只是跳跃。

So be careful of that in any of those endurance areas of exercise choice.

因此，在选择任何耐力运动领域时都要小心这一点。

So what to pick?

那么该选什么呢？

Pick the one that you are most technically proficient, because you're going to do it a lot, it's going to be a lot of repetitions.

选择你技术上最熟练的一项，因为你会做很多次，并且会重复很多次。

Whatever one you feel the most joy in — if that's rowing, great.

无论你对哪一项运动感到最快乐——如果是划船，那就太好了。

If that's pushing a sled, it doesn't really matter.

如果那是推雪橇，那就没什么关系了。

You can do this actually with weights.

实际上你可以用重量来做到这一点。

This is our preferred way, by the way, with our athletes.

顺便说一句，这是我们对运动员的首选方式。

So we might do a 30-minute circuit where we do a five-minute farmer's carry with a pretty light weight.

因此，我们可能会做一个 30 分钟的循环，其中我们会用相当轻的重量进行 5 分钟的农夫搬运。

So you're just going to carry some weights in your hand, and you're just going to walk up and down the street for five minutes.

所以你只需手里拿着一些重物，然后在街上来回走五分钟。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You're going to set that down, and then you're going to do, say, a three-minute plank, and then you're going to pick that up, and you're going to do body -weight squats, like slowly and just tempo.

你要把它放下，然后你要做一个三分钟的平板支撑，然后你要拿起它，你要做自重深蹲，就像缓慢而有节奏的那样。

And you're going to do a handful of different exercises, so the athletes don't get super bored or a very simple one: if a 30-minute workout, 10 minutes on a treadmill, 10 minutes on a bike, 10 minutes on a row.

你要做一些不同的练习，这样运动员就不会感到超级无聊或非常简单的练习：如果锻炼 30 分钟，在跑步机上锻炼 10 分钟，骑自行车 10 分钟，连续锻炼 10 分钟。

But for those of you that are like, "Oh my God, I can't do 30 straight minutes running," cool, break it up into three or four different exercises that are all fairly safe.

但对于那些会说“天哪，我不能连续跑 30 分钟”的人来说，很酷，可以将其分成三到四种不同的练习，这些练习都相当安全。

That's how I would do that long-duration piece.

这就是我创作那个长篇作品的方式。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Got it.

明白了。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

For exercise choice.

供运动选择。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And then in terms of heart rate during that period, I mean how much attention should we pay to this?

然后就那段时间的心率而言，我的意思是我们应该对此给予多少关注？

The very broad prescriptive I've thrown out on this podcast a few times, based on my read of the literature, is for most people that are oriented toward health, including people that are working on size and strength gains, hypertrophy and strength, of course, that getting 150 to 180 minutes of so-called zone 2 cardio ...

根据我对文献的阅读，我在这个播客上多次提出了非常广泛的规定，对于大多数注重健康的人来说，包括那些致力于增加体型和力量、肥大和力量的人，当然，进行 150 到 180 分钟所谓的 2 区有氧运动......

can just barely have a conversation.

只能勉强进行对话。

But if one were to push any harder, you wouldn't be able to, that kind of thing.

但如果再用力推动，你就无法做到这一点。

It's just as a generic recommendation that almost everybody should follow in order to just keep their cardiovascular system healthy.

这只是一个通用建议，几乎每个人都应该遵循，以保持心血管系统健康。

But I know there's a lot of nuance there, and some people would like to be able to run continuously for an hour at speed, right?

但我知道这里面有很多细微差别，有些人希望能够连续快速跑一个小时，对吗？

Obviously not sprinting, but what are some of the finer points on long-distance endurance?

显然不是短跑，但是长距离耐力有哪些亮点呢？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So I have to-

所以我必须——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And how often should one do it?

应该多久做一次？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Okay.

好的。

Frequency you could do it is daily.

您可以执行的频率是每天。

Right?

正确的？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Even when doing strength and hypertrophy strength?

即使做力量和肥大力量的时候？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

No question.

毫无疑问。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Well, that I think is an important point for people to hear because a lot of people think that they are going to greatly diminish their strength and hypertrophy gains, as it's often called, by doing zone 2 cardio.

嗯，我认为这是人们听到的一个重要观点，因为很多人认为，通过进行 2 区有氧运动，他们将大大削弱他们的力量和肥大收益，正如人们常说的那样。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Zone 2, you have almost no ability to block your hypertrophy.

2区，你几乎没有能力阻止你的肥大。

Zone 2, truly, if it's really within that category, if you're talking about conversational pace, there is, in fact there is strong reason to think that it's not going to influence hypertrophy for the overwhelming majority of people.

确实，第二区，如果它真的属于这个类别，如果你谈论的是对话速度，那么事实上有充分的理由认为它不会影响绝大多数人的肥大。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It might even help it by increasing blood flow to the various muscles.

它甚至可以通过增加流向各种肌肉的血液来帮助它。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Absolutely.

绝对的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Let's say someone's doing primarily strength and hypertrophy.

假设某人主要进行力量训练和肌肉肥大训练。

Their primary goals are strength and hypertrophy, and then they're going to hit that 150 to 180 minutes of zone 2 cardio per week, assuming they're breaking that up into three or four sessions.

他们的主要目标是力量和肥大，然后他们每周将进行 150 到 180 分钟的 2 区有氧运动，假设他们将其分成三到四次。

Does it matter if they do it in the same workout before or after?

他们在同一次锻炼之前或之后进行这件事有什么关系吗？

Does that matter?

这有关系吗？

I tend to do, just by way of example for people, certainly I'm just one example, I tend to do resistance training one day, then I'll do zone 2 cardio the next day.

我倾向于这样做，只是作为人们的例子，当然我只是一个例子，我倾向于有一天进行阻力训练，然后第二天我会进行 2 区有氧运动。

I jog because that's the thing I prefer.

我慢跑是因为那是我喜欢的事情。

Then I'll do strength hypertrophy training the next day and jog for my zone 2 cardio.

然后我会在第二天进行力量肥大训练并慢跑以进行 2 区有氧运动。

And then I take one full day off a week.

然后我每周休息一整天。

I've never actually done the zone 2 cardio on the same day, but where I had to do it on the same day, would it matter if I did it before or after my strength hypertrophy training?

我实际上从未在同一天做过 2 区有氧运动，但如果我必须在同一天进行，那么我在力量肥大训练之前还是之后进行会有什么影响吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Not really.

不是真的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay.

好的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You're going to be just fine.

你会没事的。

The interference effect is what this is called.

这就是所谓的干涉效应。

So this is all the way back to 1980, Bob Hickman stuff.

这一切都可以追溯到 1980 年，鲍勃·希克曼 (Bob Hickman) 的作品。

And he was actually working in a lab with John Holloszy, who's one of the fathers of exercise biochemistry.

他实际上是在约翰·霍洛西 (John Holloszy) 的实验室里工作，约翰·霍洛西是运动生物化学之父之一。

So the story goes that Hickman came in, he was the strength training guy, and Holloszy and almost all those initial exercise physiologists were conditioning folks.

故事是这样的，希克曼进来了，他是力量训练人员，而霍洛西和几乎所有最初的运动生理学家都是体能训练人员。

So it's almost always swimmers and runners.

所以几乎都是游泳者和跑步者。

That's why a bulk of the exercise physiology historically is shaped in that direction.

这就是为什么历史上大部分运动生理学都是朝着这个方向形成的。

It's what those scientists were interested in.

这正是那些科学家感兴趣的。

So Hickman was there in the lab, and then how much of this is myth or not, nobody knows.

所以希克曼就在实验室里，而这其中有多少是神话，没有人知道。

So the story goes that ...

所以故事是这样的……

this is sort of chipping back and forth, and you know how from a PI to postdoc and kind of that razzing works a little bit.

这是一种来回的磨合，你知道从 PI 到博士后是如何工作的。

And eventually he was like, "You got to start running with us." And he was like, "You got to start lifting with me," and kind of goes back and forth.

最终他说，“你必须开始和我们一起跑步。”他说，“你必须开始和我一起举重”，然后就来来回回。

Well, you know who wins that equation.

好吧，你知道谁赢得了这个等式。

It's not the postdoc.

这不是博士后。

The PI gets in, and Hickman says, "Okay, fine."

PI 进来了，希克曼说：“好吧，好吧。”

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So he starts running with Holloszy and then eventually starts to realize, "I'm getting weak; I'm losing strength and I just can't..." I think it was his bench press specifically that was going down or maybe his squat, I can't remember, who knows if it's even real.

所以他开始和霍洛西一起跑步，然后最终开始意识到，“我越来越虚弱；我正在失去力量，我就是不能……”我认为具体是他的卧推下降了，或者可能是他的深蹲下降了，我不记得了，谁知道这是否是真的。

But point is, so he is going along, and so eventually that starts to create a little bit of animosity, and it's like, "Actually I don't think this is good for me," and then blah, blah blah.

但重点是，所以他正在继续，所以最终开始产生一点敌意，就像，“实际上我不认为这对我有好处，”然后等等，等等。

And so they did what any good scientists would do and said, "Well, let's find out." Right?

所以他们做了任何优秀科学家都会做的事情并说：“好吧，让我们找出答案。”正确的？

And so he run a really famous experiment where he took three groups, one group did an endurance piece, the steady state cardio.

因此，他进行了一项非常著名的实验，他分为三组，一组进行耐力训练，即稳态有氧运动。

One group did a strength training piece, and then the third group did both of those workouts combined, not like a reduction, so both volumes stacked on top of each other.

一组进行力量训练，然后第三组将这两项训练结合起来，而不是减少训练，因此两份训练内容相互叠加。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

And the results are fairly predictable in terms of the endurance group, only, had the greatest increases in VO2 max and endurance markers.

就耐力组而言，结果是相当可预测的，只是最大摄氧量和耐力指标增幅最大。

The strength training group had the greatest increases in muscle hypertrophy.

力量训练组的肌肉肥大增幅最大。

But where the interesting part was where this whole field started was the combined group, this concurrent training is what it's generally called.

但有趣的是，整个领域的起点是联合小组，这种并行训练就是通常所说的。

So you're doing concurrent things, and typically that means hypertrophy and strength stacked on top of some steady-state endurance-

所以你正在做并发的事情，通常这意味着肥大和力量叠加在一些稳态耐力之上 -

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In the same time frame-

在同一时间范围内——

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Same workout ...

同样的锻炼...

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Same two-hour block?

同样的两小时时段？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Or same week.

或者同一周。

It doesn't really ...

这其实并不...

It can be-

它可以是——

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Got it.

明白了。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Kind of all these.

所有这些。

Well, the concurrent group saw the same improvements in VO2 max as the endurance group.

嗯，并发组的最大摄氧量与耐力组有相同的改善。

And he was like, "Well, okay." So strength training did not compromise the endurance adaptations.

他说：“好吧，好吧。”因此力量训练并不会影响耐力适应。

However, they saw much lower increases in strength and hypertrophy.

然而，他们发现力量和肥大的增长要低得多。

And so the conclusion was the addition of endurance work compromised muscle growth and strength development, however, the addition of strength training to your endurance work will not compromise your endurance gains.

因此结论是，增加耐力训练会损害肌肉生长和力量发展，但是，在耐力训练中加入力量训练不会损害你的耐力增益。

Now that second piece has been shown countless more times.

现在第二件作品已经被放映了无数次。

So if you're an endurance athlete, adding strength training is almost always going to be massively beneficial.

因此，如果您是一名耐力运动员，增加力量训练几乎总是会带来巨大好处。

Very little chance of detriment for this is why every endurance athlete is going to have some sort of strength and power component to their training.

这种损害的可能性很小，这就是为什么每个耐力运动员都会在训练中加入某种力量和力量成分。

The controversy though came in the interference effect.

但争议来自于干扰效应。

So how much endurance training really blocks muscular development, and for years, myself included, was we preached hard, "Don't do these two things at the same time."

那么，耐力训练在多大程度上确实会阻碍肌肉的发展，多年来，包括我自己在内，我们一直在大力宣扬“不要同时做这两件事”。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

My friend, my colleague Kevin Murach has a really nice review article with Jimmy Bagley, those two guys put this thing out, you can go read that.

我的朋友，我的同事凯文·穆拉赫（Kevin Murach）和吉米·巴格利（Jimmy Bagley）有一篇非常好的评论文章，这两个人发表了这篇文章，你可以去读一下。

Where they cover all these things, and they've got some nice figures in there, but the general answer here is interference effect is sort of real, but it's probably greatly overblown.

他们涵盖了所有这些事情，并且那里有一些不错的数字，但这里的一般答案是干扰效应是真实的，但它可能被严重夸大了。

It matters.

这很重要。

So you're talking about a 20-minute jog at conversation pace that's probably doing very little.

所以你说的是按照谈话节奏慢跑 20 分钟，但效果可能很小。

With the assumption that are you doing an eccentric-based exercise like running, well then you're going to have more of an interference effect than cycling.

假设您正在进行跑步等离心运动，那么您会比骑自行车受到更多的干扰。

That makes a ton of sense if you think about it, right?

如果你仔细想想，这很有意义，对吧？

What's your total energy intake?

您的总能量摄入量是多少？

If you're eating sufficient calories, you can still be in anabolic state.

如果您摄入足够的热量，您仍然可以处于合成代谢状态。

If the addition of extra energy expenditure, it's all it really is — the cardio — put you in a negative energy state, it's going to become very difficult to go through anabolism.

如果加上额外的能量消耗，这就是有氧运动，让你处于负能量状态，那么合成代谢就会变得非常困难。

So those things matter.

所以这些事情很重要。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

If you're talking about running a few laps around the track as a warmup, that's not interference effect.

如果您谈论的是绕赛道跑几圈作为热身，那么这不是干扰效应。

What we're really talking about is a big volume performance consistently.

我们真正谈论的是持续的大容量性能。

Now, after Hickman came out with this paper in 1980, people followed it up in the '90s and 2000s with mechanism.

现在，在 1980 年 Hickman 发表这篇论文之后，人们在 90 年代和 2000 年代用机制来跟进它。

And we started to see, hey, there's this cell-signaling pathway that goes down, called mTOR, and that's what leads to muscle growth.

我们开始发现，嘿，有一种细胞信号通路下降，称为 mTOR，这就是导致肌肉生长的原因。

And then on the other side of that equation, there's a thing called AMPK, which is more associated with mitochondrial biogenesis and endurance.

在这个等式的另一边，有一种叫做 AMPK 的东西，它与线粒体的生物发生和耐力更相关。

And there's this little molecule in between.

中间有一个小分子。

At the time, most people would point to TSC2, well, turns out AMPK activation is fine and if you activate mTOR, has no bearing on AMPK, but if you activate AMPK, it's going to activate TSC2, which inhibit mTOR.

当时，大多数人会指出 TSC2，事实证明 AMPK 激活很好，如果你激活 mTOR，对 AMPK 没有影响，但如果你激活 AMPK，它会激活 TSC2，从而抑制 mTOR。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

And so it was like we had practical outcome, i.e., Hickman, you're going to get weaker.

所以这就像我们得到了实际的结果，也就是说，希克曼，你会变得更弱。

Now we had mechanism.

现在我们有了机制。

So that story became very strong that this interference effect, and this is how science should work, right?

所以这个故事变得非常强烈，这种干扰效应，这就是科学应该如何运作，对吧？

When you see mechanism match up with practical human outcome.

当你看到机制与实际的人类结果相匹配时。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It's a strong story.

这是一个强有力的故事。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's what you want.

这就是你想要的。

Yep.

是的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It was still wrong though.

但它仍然是错误的。

It just took more science, right?

只是需要更多的科学，对吧？

And this is why we always have to give science a bit of time, and you have to be willing to follow, right?

这就是为什么我们总是要给科学一点时间，而你必须愿意跟随，对吧？

And again, even me in the field who has a practitioner background and science, I felt very strongly this is a big problem.

再说一次，即使是我这个领域有从业者背景和科学知识的人，我也强烈地感觉到这是一个大问题。

It just didn't turn out to be the case.

只是事实并非如此。

Enough studies came out where I'm like, "Okay, it's probably not that big a deal." Unless the movement is heavily eccentric-based, the volume is very high.

经过足够多的研究，我想，“好吧，这可能没什么大不了的。”除非运动是严重偏心的，否则音量会非常高。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

The movement is heavily eccentric based.

该运动是基于偏心的。

The volume is very high.

音量非常高。

You're trying to maximize muscle growth, and energy is not controlled.

你试图最大化肌肉生长，但能量不受控制。

If that's not all the case, interference effect is probably not something most people should worry about, especially when you compare that against the well roundedness that you need for total physiological health, probably not a big deal.

如果情况并非全部如此，那么干扰效应可能不是大多数人应该担心的事情，特别是当您将其与总体生理健康所需的全面性进行比较时，可能没什么大不了的。

PART 3 OF 6 ENDS Andrew Huberman:

第 3 部分（共 6 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：

Very reassuring for me to hear because I do enjoy lifting weights, and I really enjoy running, and I love running outside.

听到这个消息我很放心，因为我确实喜欢举重，我真的很喜欢跑步，而且我喜欢在外面跑步。

I believe I used to experience the interference effect when I used to do a very long run on Sundays.

我相信我以前在周日进行长跑时就经历过这种干扰效应。

I would just go out for two hours or something like that.

我只会出去两个小时或者类似的事情。

I don't know that I ate enough or who knows, I always feel like I eat enough or more.

我不知道我吃饱了还是谁知道，我总觉得我吃够了或者吃多了。

I love to eat.

我喜欢吃。

But that long Sunday run always made it hard for me to make progressive gains in strength and hypertrophy in the gym.

但周日的长跑总是让我很难在健身房里逐渐增加力量和肥大。

Whereas when I cut that to 30 minutes three or four times a week, I don't see any interference effect at all.

然而，当我每周三到四次将时间减少到 30 分钟时，我根本看不到任何干扰效果。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, probably very real.

是的，可能非常真实。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And I haven't trained specifically for endurance in a very long time, so I haven't experienced the noninterference effect, which as you said before, most, if not all endurance athletes probably are, or at least should be doing some sort of strength work just to keep the undercarriage strong as I think that's called.

而且我已经很长一段时间没有专门进行耐力训练了，所以我还没有经历过无干扰效应，正如你之前所说，大多数（如果不是全部）耐力运动员可能都是，或者至少应该做某种力量训练，只是为了保持起落架坚固，我认为这就是所谓的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, there's a bunch of reasons.

是的，有很多原因。

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So what are some protocols that people could explore for continuous endurance training?

那么人们可以探索哪些持续耐力训练的方案呢？

I mean, I've thrown out this 150-to-180-minute zone 2 cardio, but that's really the kind of kindergarten of endurance, and there I'm probably being generous.

我的意思是，我已经放弃了 150 到 180 分钟的 2 区有氧运动，但这确实是耐力的幼儿园，而且我可能很慷慨。

It's probably the nursery school of endurance that everyone should do.

这可能是每个人都应该做的耐力幼儿园。

What sorts of other protocols?

还有哪些其他协议？

I realize that can be very goal directed, but is it unreasonable, for instance, for somebody to do four hours of continuous endurance training with intervals in there as well to get it, kind of all-around heart health and the ability to go long distances?

我意识到这可能是非常有目标的，但是，例如，对于一个人来说，进行四个小时的连续耐力训练并间歇训练以获得全面的心脏健康和长距离运动的能力，这是不合理的吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

I'll answer this too, it's the very first one, to tackle the long duration endurance is how I heard of it.

我也来回答这个问题，这是第一个，解决长时间耐力问题是我听说的。

You asked earlier about heart rate zones.

您之前询问过有关心率区的问题。

To me that's almost totally irrelevant.

对我来说这几乎完全无关紧要。

It doesn't matter, right?

没关系，对吧？

If you're moving, you're moving.

如果你在移动，你就在移动。

That's the functional piece here.

这就是这里的功能部分。

If you want to push it and go at a nonconversational pace, that has tremendous health benefits; if you want to do it a little bit slower, fine.

如果你想推动它并以非对话的速度进行，这对健康有巨大的好处；如果你想慢一点，也可以。

If you're at the pace where you can have a conversation, to me, I don't even count that as exercise.

如果你的节奏可以进行对话，对我来说，我什至不认为这是一种锻炼。

That's not a pejorative, by the way.

顺便说一句，这不是贬义词。

That is just general physical movement, and it is extraordinarily clear you need a lot of that.

这只是一般的身体运动，而且很明显你需要很多这样的运动。

You need a lot more of that than we get.

你需要的比我们得到的要多得多。

You can do this in a couple of efficient ways.

您可以通过几种有效的方法来做到这一点。

Just taking your phone calls moving.

只是让你的电话移动。

If you've got a 30-minute call every day, or most days of the week, and you can do that while moving, you've checked not that whole box, but a pretty good chunk of it.

如果您每天或一周中的大部分时间都会接到一个 30 分钟的电话，而且您可以在搬家时接听电话，那么您检查的并不是整个方框，而是其中的很大一部分。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And that could even be done inside.

这甚至可以在内部完成。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

A hundred percent.

百分之一百。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Pacing back and forth.

来回踱步。

I'm a big pacer.

我是一个大步行者。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Oh yeah, me too.

哦，是的，我也是。

You probably saw me.

你可能见过我。

I'm going to walk up and down all over the place.

我要到处走走走走。

Most of the time when I'm in my office working, I'm shadow boxing, I'm doing air squats, not even intentionally, I'm just like ...

大多数时候，当我在办公室工作时，我会打太极拳，我会做空蹲，甚至不是故意的，我就像......

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Do you have one of those treadmills under the desk?

你桌子下面有一台跑步机吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

I don't.

我不知道。

But every lab I ever came through, somebody did.

但我经历过的每一个实验室，都有人经历过。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

We did an episode on workspace optimization, and the data on those treadmills are pretty interesting.

我们做了一集关于工作空间优化的节目，这些跑步机上的数据非常有趣。

They definitely increase alertness for which, for obvious reasons, even a little bit of movement is going to generate a little bit of adrenaline.

它们肯定会提高警觉性，出于显而易见的原因，即使是一点点运动也会产生一点肾上腺素。

So pacing around, moving, taking calls, moving, getting walks when you can.

因此，尽可能地走动、走动、接听电话、走动、散步。

And then in terms of building endurance, let's say somebody wants to get into better shape.

然后，就增强耐力而言，假设有人想要获得更好的体形。

They already may or may not already have some size and strength that they're happy with and they just want to get in ...

他们可能已经或可能尚未拥有令他们满意的尺寸和力量，他们只是想加入......

They want to improve their health.

他们想要改善自己的健康。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

When does that 150, 180 minutes thing tick over into a different protocol?

150、180 分钟的事情什么时候会转入不同的协议？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

So I think the way that I can outline a weekly schedule, just as a conceptual model here, that long-duration stuff is not even counting, as I mentioned.

所以我认为我可以概述每周时间表的方式，就像这里的概念模型一样，正如我提到的，长期的东西甚至不算数。

It's just this is what you need to do as a human moving forward.

这正是作为一个人类前进所需要做的。

We haven't improved.

我们还没有进步。

If you're extremely unfit, you may see some changes in cardiovascular health there, but for the most part, this is just knocking out the general physical practice.

如果您身体状况极差，您可能会看到心血管健康状况发生一些变化，但在大多数情况下，这只是消除了一般的体育锻炼。

You need to be higher functioning.

你需要有更高的功能。

So whatever that time domain is, I don't really care.

所以无论那个时域是什么，我并不关心。

It's not a huge concern of mine.

这不是我关心的大问题。

What I think you need to hit are these nodes, you need to do something once a week that gets you to a maximum heart rate.

我认为你需要击中的是这些节点，你需要每周做一次让你达到最大心率的事情。

Now, I don't have to literally mean max, but close.

现在，我不必字面意思是最大值，而是接近。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

This means really sucking for air?

这意味着真的在吸空气吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Really, as high as you can possibly get.

真的，尽可能高。

You can wear a heart rate monitor if you want, but maximum heart rate that the rough equation we say is 220 minus your age.

如果您愿意，您可以佩戴心率监测器，但我们所说的最大心率粗略公式是 220 减去您的年龄。

So if you're 40 years old, your maximum heart rate is probably about 180 beats per minute.

因此，如果您 40 岁，您的最大心率可能约为每分钟 180 次。

Now I can tell you flat out right now, my max heart rate is close to 210, which means I'm 10 years old.

现在我可以很明确地告诉你，我的最大心率接近210，这意味着我已经10岁了。

So take that number with a grain of salt.

所以对这个数字持保留态度。

I have had a bunch of professional athletes who are in their twenties, and their max heart rate is 175 and they are in way better shape than I am.

我身边有一群二十多岁的职业运动员，他们的最高心率是175，而且他们的体质比我好得多。

So maximum heart rate is not a good proxy for physical fitness.

因此，最大心率并不能很好地代表身体健康状况。

It's a rough number.

这是一个粗略的数字。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

An easy way to do it is if you have a heart rate monitor or anything like that, do the hardest workout you can possibly do.

一个简单的方法是，如果您有心率监测器或类似设备，请尽可能进行最艰苦的锻炼。

See what the highest number you get and assume that's close.

看看你得到的最高数字是多少，并假设它很接近。

If you want to just start at 220 minus your age, that's fine too.

如果您想从 220 减去您的年龄开始，也可以。

Do something though where you're like, "Yep, this is death.

做一些你喜欢的事情，“是的，这就是死亡。

This is really, really challenging." For how long?

这真的非常非常具有挑战性。”多长时间？

However long that takes you.

不管这需要你多长时间。

That can be a 30-second go on an air assault bike, that could be a ...

这可能是骑着空中突击自行车 30 秒，也可能是......

do one of those things where you kind of sprint, run as hard as you can during the straightaway on a track and then walk the corners.

做其中一件你需要冲刺的事情，在赛道上的直道上尽你所能地跑，然后走过弯道。

Kind of an old classic, back when you and I were kids, interval training.

有点古老的经典，当你和我还是个孩子的时候，间歇训练。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

They don't do that anymore?

他们不再这样做了吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

I guess, I don't know.

我想，我不知道。

I don't hear anyone ever talk about it.

我没有听到有人谈论过它。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In PE class, we had to change and if you didn't bring running shoes, you had to do it barefoot.

体育课上，我们必须换衣服，如果你没有带跑鞋，就必须赤脚。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Oh, I love it.

哦，我喜欢它。

I love your teacher.

我爱你的老师。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, it wasn't ...

是的，这不是...

Our football, basketball, baseball teams weren't that good, but anything like running, cross country, just because of where I grew up.

我们的足球队、篮球队、棒球队都不是那么好，但像跑步、越野这样的运动都不是很好，只是因为我长大的地方。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Oh yeah.

哦，是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Like brutal, brutal coaches, so, yeah, they'd make all kids do these runs.

就像残酷的教练一样，是的，他们会让所有的孩子都参加这些跑步活动。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yep.

是的。

So we can be in the 30 probably seconds at a minimum.

所以我们至少可以在 30 秒内完成。

It's hard to get you to a true heart rate max in shorter than 30 seconds.

您很难在 30 秒内达到真正的最大心率。

You can get to total suck in under 20 seconds, but getting to a true heart rate max is probably going to take more than 30 seconds.

您可以在 20 秒内达到完全吸收，但达到真正的最大心率可能需要 30 秒以上。

So it doesn't really matter what you want to do.

所以你想做什么并不重要。

It can be again, a sprint uphill, it could be what you were talking, it could be burpees to death, whatever you want to do, just ...

又可以是一次冲刺上坡，可以是你所说的，也可以是立卧撑跳至死，无论你想做什么，只是……

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Although those have an eccentric component, right?

虽然它们有一个古怪的成分，对吧？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, they do.

是的，他们确实这么做了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

No question about it.

毫无疑问。

But if you did ...

但如果你这样做...

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Not to actual death by the way.

顺便说一句，并不是真正的死亡。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

If you just did, "I'm going to do as many burpees as I can for 90 seconds," it probably won't take you much longer than that to get to close to max ...

如果你只是这样做，“我将在 90 秒内尽可能多地做波比跳”，那么你可能不会花比这更长的时间来接近最大......

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And is that a whole workout?

这是一个完整的锻炼吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It could be.

可能是。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So once a week, get to max heart rate?

那么每周一次达到最大心率吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Touch it.

触摸它。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I love it.

我喜欢它。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Touch it.

触摸它。

It's not the best, but it'll work.

这不是最好的，但它会起作用。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And what are the specific benefits that provides?

它提供了哪些具体好处？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Okay, so earlier in our chat we outlined the rule of specificity, specific adaptation to impose demand.

好的，在我们之前的聊天中，我们概述了特异性规则，具体适应强加需求。

If you're never getting to that high of a pace, it would be trying to get stronger but only going to 60%.

如果你从来没有达到那么高的配速，你会努力变得更强，但只能达到 60%。

So every cardiovascular adaptation that occurs with cardiovascular training is just simply going to get to the top end by doing this.

因此，通过心血管训练发生的每一次心血管适应都可以通过这样做达到顶峰。

So if you just start at the heart itself, stroke volume increases.

因此，如果您只是从心脏本身开始，每搏输出量就会增加。

So this is the amount of blood that's kicked out per contraction.

这就是每次宫缩排出的血液量。

Cardiac output, resting heart rate.

心输出量、静息心率。

If you go to the endothelial function, you're talking about nitric oxide release.

如果您谈到内皮功能，您正在谈论一氧化氮的释放。

Endothelial health in general, capillary mitochondria all the way down.

内皮健康状况一般，毛细血管线粒体一路下降。

You just walk through the whole system, pulmonary exchange to the lungs, all of those are going to benefit by being challenged to their maximum.

你只需走过整个系统，从肺部到肺部的交换，所有这些都将通过最大程度的挑战而受益。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It will also teach you where your vomit reflex is.

它还会告诉您呕吐反射在哪里。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, there you go.

是的，就这样。

Right?

正确的？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Let's hope not.

我们希望不会。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Stress is what causes adaptation, right?

压力是导致适应的原因，对吗？

So if you push your ...

所以如果你推动你的...

Okay, here's the difference.

好吧，这就是区别。

If you did 25 minutes of steady state, you're not challenging the same thing as what we just talked about.

如果您进行了 25 分钟的稳定状态，那么您就不会挑战与我们刚才讨论的相同的事情。

The way that I explain this is if you understand the point of physiological failure, then you understand the place of adaptation, that's it.

我解释这一点的方式是，如果你了解了生理衰竭的点，那么你就了解了适应的地方，就是这样。

So if you and I both go run on a ...

所以如果你和我都去跑步......

We did both did a VO2 max test, so classic VO2 max test is going to take eight to 12 minutes and it's going to look something like this.

我们都进行了最大摄氧量测试，因此经典的最大摄氧量测试将需要 8 到 12 分钟，并且看起来像这样。

We're going to get in a treadmill and we're going to run and every minute I'm going to just slightly increase that treadmill, either the speed or the grade, most of the time it's the speed.

我们将进入跑步机，我们将跑步，每一分钟我都会稍微增加跑步机的速度或坡度，大多数时候是速度。

So we get to a high grade, say 10% grade or something, and then we go five miles per hour, 5.2, 5.4, 5.

所以我们得到一个高等级，比如说 10% 等级或者其他什么，然后我们每小时行驶 5 英里，5.2、5.4、5。

...

...

, and we just go until you can't go any longer.

，我们就一直走，直到你不能再走为止。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Now let's say you and I did that and we had the same exact timeframe, and so we both went eight minutes.

现在假设你和我都这么做了，而且我们的时间框架完全相同，所以我们都花了八分钟。

The time that you last is not the thing that we care about.

你能坚持多久不是我们关心的。

It's the volume of oxygen that you breathe out is what determines it.

决定它的是你呼出的氧气量。

So let's say we move at the same time domain and we had the same VO2 max, let's say they were both 50 milliliters per kilogram per minute, which is an okay number, but that's nothing to be extremely proud about.

假设我们在同一时间域移动，并且具有相同的最大摄氧量，假设它们都是每分钟每公斤 50 毫升，这是一个不错的数字，但这并不是什么值得骄傲的事情。

Just because we have the same number does not mean we have the same point of physiological failure, and this matters because it's going to answer the "What do I do about it then" question, right?

仅仅因为我们有相同的数字并不意味着我们有相同的生理失败点，这很重要，因为它将回答“那么我该怎么办”的问题，对吧？

So if you got off and I started asking you a series of questions, and I basically said, "Why'd you quit?

所以，如果你下车了，我开始问你一系列问题，我基本上会说，“你为什么辞职？

Why did you jump off the treadmill?

你为什么从跑步机上跳下来？

Why'd you stop?" And you were like, "My chest, I couldn't catch my breath.

你为什么停下来？”你就像是，“我的胸部，我无法呼吸。

I thought my heart was going to explode." Okay, great.

我觉得我的心要爆炸了。”好的，太好了。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

If you ask me and I said my legs were on fire, I was breathing hard, but I couldn't take another step, this is a very rough indicator of different places of physiological disruption.

如果你问我，我说我的腿着火了，我呼吸困难，但我无法再迈出一步，这是不同部位的生理破坏的一个非常粗略的指标。

Now what I've seen a lot with my professional athletes, especially like fighters, they're going to generally fail in their legs because they don't often do a lot of strength training in their legs.

现在我在我的职业运动员身上看到了很多，特别是像拳击手，他们通常会腿部失败，因为他们不经常进行腿部力量训练。

They don't do a lot of leg work.

他们不做很多腿部工作。

They're fighting on their back, literally, a lot, or on top, or on their knees, so their legs tend to give out before.

从字面上看，他们经常靠背打架，或者在上面，或者用膝盖打架，所以他们的腿以前往往会屈服。

Someone who fails in the cardiovascular system, let's say you did a lot of leg training, typically like an endurance athlete, that's not going to be their issue.

对于心血管系统出现问题的人，假设您进行了大量的腿部训练，通常像耐力运动员一样，这不会成为他们的问题。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It's just going to be they're going to reach a heart rate and ventilation threshold that they can no longer handle.

只是他们将达到他们无法再处理的心率和通气阈值。

If I put you on the exact same training protocols, it's not going to be as effective because you are going to always fail at your legs, and they're going to always fail at their cardiovascular system.

如果我让你接受完全相同的训练方案，它不会那么有效，因为你的腿部总是会失败，而他们的心血管系统也总是会失败。

I need to flip that, right?

我需要翻转它，对吗？

I need to put you in a position to where you can reach a true heart rate or ventilation challenge while your legs are still hanging in there or the opposite.

我需要让你处于一个可以达到真实心率或通气挑战的位置，同时你的腿仍然悬在那里或相反。

So the training protocol is based on that point of failure.

因此，训练协议是基于该故障点的。

The adaptation is in the same thing.

适应是同一件事。

So if you are failing because of your legs, then you might see a greater increase in capillarization in your legs relative to somebody else who's failing in their cardiovascular system.

因此，如果您因腿部原因而出现衰竭，那么相对于心血管系统出现衰竭的其他人，您可能会发现腿部毛细血管化程度增加得更多。

They may see a greater change in something on that side of the equation so that it matters how you're failing at all times.

他们可能会看到等式另一边的某些事情发生了更大的变化，因此无论何时你失败的方式都很重要。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What I love about this is that it sounds like it's like a thermometer for where one is weak and needs work, but also provides a stimulus to improve the very thing that you need.

我喜欢这个的原因是，它听起来就像一个温度计，可以测量一个人的弱点和需要工作的地方，但也提供了一个刺激来改善你所需要的东西。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

That's the trick, right?

这就是窍门，对吧？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So to just get it real brass tacks about it, it would be once a week ...

因此，为了获得真正的实质性内容，每周一次......

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Okay, yeah.

好吧，是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Ninety seconds near maximum heart rate, could I do more?

接近最大心率九十秒，我可以做得更多吗？

Could I do five or six of those 90-second bouts?

我可以做五六次这样的 90 秒回合吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

No question you can do ...

毫无疑问你可以做...

As long as you touch that max heart rate, I'm good.

只要你达到最大心率，我就很好。

Right?

正确的？

Ideal world, probably four to eight.

理想的世界，大概是四到八个。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

In that single session.

在那一次会议中。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Ideal.

理想的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Okay.

好的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Right.

对。

If that takes you 20 seconds or 90 seconds, it's fine.

如果这需要 20 秒或 90 秒，那也没关系。

If you want to do 30 on, 30 off; you want to do 20 on, 40 off; 40 on, 20 off.

如果你想开30，关30；你想开 20 次，关 40 次； 40 开，20 关。

Those numbers don't matter.

这些数字并不重要。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And is there an interference effect of this on the other sorts of training that we've talked about?

这对我们讨论过的其他类型的训练有干扰作用吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It actually tends to be complementary.

它实际上往往是互补的。

The evidence available suggests that this high-interval stuff is more likely to be complementary to hypertrophy training, probably because of lactate and some other cool things which are very beneficial molecules that people don't understand, they think it's bad.

现有的证据表明，这种高间隔的东西更有可能是肥大训练的补充，可能是因为乳酸和其他一些很酷的东西，这些东西是非常有益的分子，但人们不理解，他们认为这是不好的。

It's actually a hugely beneficial thing.

这实际上是一件非常有益的事情。

It can be interference, it can provide an interference if calories are not accounted for, if rest is not accounted for, and other things.

它可能是干扰，如果不考虑卡路里、不考虑休息以及其他事情，它可能会提供干扰。

But in general, it's probably okay.

但总的来说，可能没问题。

I wouldn't add it to your equation if you don't need it for maximizing hypertrophy.

如果你不需要它来最大化肥大，我不会将它添加到你的方程中。

But for the person who wants to just get well-rounded physiology, I wouldn't hesitate to do these even in the same session or different sessions.

但对于那些只想获得全面的生理学的人来说，即使在同一疗程或不同疗程中，我也会毫不犹豫地做这些。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Terrific.

太棒了。

And if that's done once a week, and the 150 to 180 minutes or so of zone 2 cardio is done in the rest of the week; person's doing their strength and hypertrophy training, we would hope, what other sorts of endurance practices could one incorporate?

如果每周进行一次，并在一周的其余时间进行 150 到 180 分钟左右的 2 区有氧运动；当一个人在进行力量和增肌训练时，我们希望，还可以进行哪些其他类型的耐力训练？

You mentioned muscular endurance, the ability, like a wall sit, or the ability to do a plank.

你提到了肌肉耐力，即靠墙坐或平板支撑的能力。

Is that something ...

是不是有什么东西...

Is that useful for anything?

这对什么有用吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yes.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Doing planks and wall sitting?

做平板支撑和靠墙坐吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

No, no, it's extraordinarily useful.

不不不，它非常有用。

Let's hold on muscular endurance.

让我们保持肌肉耐力。

I want to finish one more thing on this side.

我还想在这一边完成一件事。

So if we're building this week of endurance, once a week, hit that number, if you can do repeated bouts, we talked four to eight, that's fantastic.

因此，如果我们本周要建立耐力，每周一次，达到这个数字，如果你可以重复进行比赛，我们谈了四到八次，那就太棒了。

If you can't manage the mental energy every week, do it every other week, it's still very good, right?

如果你不能每周管理一次精神能量，那么每隔一周管理一次，还是很好的，对吧？

Because I get it, I'm a working person too.

因为我明白了，我也是一个工作人员。

And sometimes you're just like, "I cannot, those workouts feel incredible afterwards, but man they are daunting." If you love this stuff, you could do it four times a week.

有时你会想，“我不能，这些训练之后感觉不可思议，但伙计，它们太令人畏惧了。”如果你喜欢这个东西，你可以每周做四次。

If you hate it though, it's not realistic to think you're going to be able to knock this out.

如果你讨厌它，那么认为你能够解决这个问题是不现实的。

You're going to end up doing 70, 80%, which is not going to get you the benefit.

你最终会完成 70%、80%，这不会给你带来好处。

So just don't do it.

所以就不要这样做。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You really have to hit that ceiling?

你真的必须达到那个天花板吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You got to get up there, close.

你必须站起来，靠近。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Have someone chase ...

让人追...

I always say when doing this kind of work, in my mind I'm thinking that I'm basically being chased by somebody with a syringe full of poison.

我总是说，在做这种工作时，在我的脑海里，我基本上是在被一个拿着装满毒药的注射器的人追赶。

And while there are other ways out of the situation, and for the benefit of what we're talking about, what I'm referring to is to just run.

虽然还有其他方法可以摆脱这种情况，但为了我们所讨论的利益，我指的是逃跑。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah.

是的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

My motivation is typically if you just get this done, we're done in a couple of minutes.

我的动机通常是，如果你只要完成这件事，我们就会在几分钟内完成。

Just get it done.

只要完成它就可以了。

Don't go here if you're not going to do it, but when you show up, check in, and it's over really quickly.

如果您不打算这样做，请不要去这里，但是当您出现时，登记入住，很快就结束了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Breathing down-regulation afterwards?

之后呼吸下调？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Hundred percent, you have to, right?

百分百，你必须这么做，对吗？

It's a huge key.

这是一把巨大的钥匙。

So if you absolutely can't do it, do it every other week.

所以如果你绝对做不到，那就每隔一周做一次。

That's twice a month.

也就是一个月两次。

Give me twice a month.

每个月给我两次。

Can be done on the road, can be done in 20 minutes, do a really good thorough warmup.

可以在路上做，可以在20分钟内完成，做一个非常好的彻底的热身。

Don't just jump into those by the way, right away.

顺便说一句，不要马上就跳进去。

It's not going to be as beneficial.

它不会那么有益。

Really nice, good sweat broke, really good warmup, and then give me four minutes of hard work and we're done.

真的很好，出汗很好，热身很好，然后给我四分钟的努力，我们就完成了。

Right?

正确的？

Get out of there.

离开那里。

If you want to use a bath or hot thermal stress to kind of aid in that warmup process, fine.

如果你想用洗澡或热应力来帮助热身过程，没问题。

Get in a sauna, get in a hot bath, Get really hot, get up there, warm up, knock it out.

去桑拿房，洗个热水澡，变得很热，站起来，热身，把它消灭掉。

Whole thing is 20 minutes plus five minutes breathing, you're out of there.

整个过程就是 20 分钟加上 5 分钟呼吸，你就可以离开那里了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm going to start doing this.

我要开始做这件事了。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You got a bike right there?

你那里有自行车吗？

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, every room in this studio has a different piece of equipment, it seems.

是的，这个工作室的每个房间似乎都有不同的设备。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So I want that once a week, realistically every week if I have to.

所以我希望每周一次，如果有必要的话，实际上每周一次。

I want that physical activity piece, call it whatever you want, long duration thing.

我想要那个身体活动部分，随便你怎么称呼它，持续时间较长的东西。

Ideally you'll do as much of that through your nose only.

理想情况下，您只需通过鼻子即可完成大部分操作。

You're not going to be able to do the interval stuff at nose only, don't even try.

你不可能只在鼻子上做间歇训练，甚至不要尝试。

But if you can go that whole 30-minute time or 20 or 40 minutes, whatever it's going to be, that's actually a good way to regulate intensity.

但如果你能坚持整个 30 分钟或 20 或 40 分钟，无论是什么，这实际上是调节强度的好方法。

So go as hard as you can while still being able to breathe through your nose.

因此，在仍然能够通过鼻子呼吸的情况下，尽你所能地努力。

Only if you have to open up your mouth a little bit, fine, but try to stay there.

除非你必须稍微张开你的嘴，没问题，但尽量保持在那里。

What you'll see is very quickly you'll be able to increase your work output while just breathing through your nose, which has a bunch of other benefits.

您很快就会看到，您只需通过鼻子呼吸就可以增加工作量，这还有很多其他好处。

The other piece I want is this middle ground, which is can you sustain hard work for eight to 12, maybe as little as four minutes?

我想要的另一件事是这个中间立场，即你能坚持努力工作八到十二分钟，也许只有四分钟？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

I'll give you four to 12 minutes.

我会给你 4 到 12 分钟的时间。

This doesn't have to be quite as high as the first one.

这不必像第一个那么高。

You don't have to get to heart max, but can you get somewhere in the 80% range and can you hold that for four minutes, maybe give me two minutes, two minutes rest and do that twice?

你不必达到最大程度，但你能达到 80% 的范围吗？你能保持四分钟，也许给我两分钟，休息两分钟，然后做两次？

Something like that.

类似的事情。

Ideal situation is what a runner would do, is what we'll call mile repeats because they're running four- or five-minute miles.

理想的情况是跑步者会做的事情，我们称之为“英里重复”，因为他们跑了四到五分钟的英里。

Whatever time it takes them to finish, they're going to rest that, so it's a one-to-one work-to-rest ratio.

无论他们需要多长时间才能完成，他们都会休息，所以这是一对一的工作与休息比例。

So a five-minute mile, rest five minutes and go again.

所以五分钟一英里，休息五分钟，然后再出发。

That's probably pretty unrealistic for a lot of folks.

对于很多人来说这可能是相当不现实的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Well the five-minute part is unrealistic for most folks.

对于大多数人来说，五分钟的部分是不现实的。

For me would be eight minutes, eight minutes.

对我来说就是八分钟，八分钟。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Fine.

很好。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Probably something like that.

大概是这样的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Well in your particular case, just do the 800 meter.

那么，根据您的具体情况，只需进行 800 米即可。

So do 800 meters.

800米也是如此。

Do something that takes two to six minutes to work.

做一些需要两到六分钟才能起作用的事情。

It is a lower intensity than the max stuff, but is a much higher workload.

它的强度比最大强度低，但工作量却高得多。

That is probably going to give, you might even argue, the most cardiovascular benefit because it is sustained work output and that's very critical.

你甚至可能会说，这可能会给心血管带来最大的好处，因为它是持续的工作输出，这是非常关键的。

The downside of kind of like that conversational pace, it's physical activity, it's movement, it's blood flow, it's lymphatic drainage.

有点像谈话节奏的缺点，它是身体活动，它是运动，它是血液流动，它是淋巴引流。

It's not very cardiovascularly challenging though.

不过，这对心血管来说并不是很有挑战性。

You're just not going to get an optimal health from just walking actively.

仅靠积极步行并不能获得最佳健康。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So two to six minutes of ...

所以两到六分钟...

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Hard work.

辛苦了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

...

...

of hard work with then an equivalent amount of rest in between, and then repeat how many times?

努力工作，然后在其间休息等量的时间，然后重复多少次？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Once if you have to.

如果有必要的话，就一次吧。

If it needs to be one rep, if it needs to be a six-minute thing, and then down-regulate breathe, twice if you can do that, six times, eight times, whatever you can really do, and you can just take that as long of a training session as you want, or a short exercise choice could be whatever you want.

如果需要一次，如果需要六分钟，然后下调呼吸，如果你能做到的话，两次，六次，八次，无论你真正能做什么，你都可以根据自己的需要选择长时间的训练，也可以选择短时间的锻炼。

So again you can do sled pushes, or it could be a kettlebell circuit, or any combination of things where you're working and you're not giving yourself a break.

所以，你可以再次做雪橇推，也可以是壶铃循环，或者任何你正在工作但不给自己休息的事情的组合。

You have got to be able to hold on at a very high waste product production level as well as a high demand for energy, and then bring it down.

你必须能够保持非常高的废物生产水平以及对能源的高需求，然后将其降低。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And breathing during this two to six minutes of hard output is mainly through the nose or combination nose and mouth, or is that getting too technical?

在这两到六分钟的努力输出中，呼吸主要是通过鼻子或鼻子和嘴巴的组合，或者这太技术性了？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Well it's probably ...

嗯，这可能是...

Like I like it, but you tell me if it's too technical.

就像我喜欢它，但你告诉我它是否太技术性了。

You're going to try to maintain nasally as much as you can, but you're going to lose it at some point.

你会尽力保持鼻音，但在某些时候你会失去它。

You can go through their, Brian and Rob's, gear system and learn more, and then you can kind of see what gear to be in if you have to go nose in, mouth out or something like that.

你可以浏览一下布莱恩和罗布的齿轮系统并了解更多信息，然后你就可以知道如果你必须用鼻子进、嘴出或类似的动作，应该使用什么齿轮。

But I don't really care too much honestly in that range.

但老实说，在这个范围内我并不太关心。

I'm getting most of my nasal-only stuff at night and training and everything.

我大部分只用鼻腔的东西都是在晚上和训练之类的。

So if you have to open up the throttle there to get the work done, okay.

因此，如果您必须打开油门才能完成工作，那么可以。

Oh then we'll actually go to answer your question, which was muscular endurance.

哦，那么我们实际上去回答你的问题，就是肌肉耐力。

Let's go back to that piece.

让我们回到那一块。

Muscular endurance is incredibly important for general maintenance of joint health.

肌肉耐力对于维持关节健康非常重要。

In other words, you have got ...

换句话说，你已经...

Form follows function is a very classic sciency physiology saying, meaning you've got a couple of different, there's a bunch, but to make it easy, two different types of muscle fibers, fast twitch and slow twitch.

形式服从功能是一句非常经典的科学生理学格言，这意味着你有几种不同的，有很多，但为了简单起见，两种不同类型的肌纤维，快肌纤维和慢肌纤维。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Fast-twitch fibers tend to be, but they're not always, bigger.

快肌纤维往往较大，但并非总是如此。

They contract with a higher velocity.

它们以更高的速度收缩。

That's why they are called fast twitch, but they tend to be more glycolytic, and thus fatigable.

这就是为什么它们被称为快肌，但它们往往更容易糖酵解，因此容易疲劳。

Slow twitch tend to be smaller, well not always, they're more packed with mitochondria that are generally better at burning fat as fuel but contract lower velocity.

慢肌纤维往往较小，但并非总是如此，它们富含线粒体，通常更擅长燃烧脂肪作为燃料，但收缩速度较低。

Well, we have these two types so that we can regulate function more.

那么，我们有这两种类型，以便我们可以更多地调节功能。

You have some muscle groups that we're going to ...

你有一些肌肉群，我们要......

Sorry, let me go back up a quick second.

抱歉，让我快速回顾一下。

Each individual muscle in a human body has a combination of some amount of fast and some amount of slow.

人体中的每块肌肉都有一定程度的快速和一定程度的缓慢的组合。

That percentage of fast versus slow differs from muscle to muscle.

快与慢的百分比因肌肉而异。

So it also differs from person to person.

所以这也是因人而异的。

Easy example is your calf muscle.

简单的例子就是小腿肌肉。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

There's three but there's two primary muscles in your calf.

小腿有三块肌肉，但主要有两块肌肉。

One's called the soleus, one's the gastroc.

一个叫比目鱼肌，一个叫腓肠肌。

The gastroc is the one where if you take your toe and point it towards your face and then flex, that's the one that pops out on the medial side, the inside.

腓肠肌是指如果你把脚趾指向你的脸然后弯曲，腓肠肌就会从内侧、内侧突出。

The soleus is what we call the antigravity muscle.

比目鱼肌就是我们所说的反重力肌。

And it is generally about 80% to even 90% slow twitch.

而且一般是80%到90%左右的慢肌。

And that's because it's supposed to be contracted lightly all time, it's supposed to be on permanently.

那是因为它应该一直轻微收缩，它应该永久开启。

It's meant to keep, we call it antigravity because it's meant to keep you erect, up and moving.

它的目的是保持，我们称之为反重力，因为它的目的是让你保持直立、向上和移动。

Your spinal erectors are supposed to do this.

你的竖脊肌应该能做到这一点。

Various muscles for postural are generally slow-twitch muscles.

用于姿势的各种肌肉一般都是慢肌。

So we're supposed to be on all times, not produce fast, not produce force, but don't get tired.

所以我们应该一直工作，不快速生产，不生产力量，但不要疲倦。

The gastroc is the opposite.

腓肠肌则相反。

It's not activated very often, but when it's activated it's meant for extreme propulsion.

它不经常被激活，但当它被激活时，它意味着极端的推进力。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So this gives us the ability to reach up and scratch our eyeball and also punch somebody.

所以这让我们有能力伸手抓眼球，也可以打别人。

We have to be able to regulate force output, which is going back to Henneman, right?

我们必须能够调节力的输出，这可以追溯到亨尼曼，对吧？

Controlling what we use and what we don't use while also not wasting energy, which is the downside of activating a big threshold motor neuron is it requires a ton of energy.

控制我们使用什么和不使用什么，同时也不浪费能量，这是激活大阈值运动神经元的缺点，因为它需要大量的能量。

It's a more efficient mode of energy, but the total amount is really, really high.

这是一种更有效的能源方式，但总量非常非常高。

So muscular endurance is going to help those slow-twitch muscle fibers and slow-twitch predominant muscles maintain their working job.

因此，肌肉耐力将帮助那些慢肌纤维和慢肌优势肌肉维持其工作状态。

So if you lose your muscular endurance ability in your spinal erectors or your calf, you're going to start slumping into bad positions.

因此，如果你失去了竖脊肌或小腿的肌肉耐力，你就会开始陷入糟糕的姿势。

You're going to be putting joints in a movement pattern that they're not going to be the most happy with.

您将使关节处于一种他们不会最满意的运动模式。

So it's more about then being able to just maintain a two-minute wall squat.

所以更重要的是能够维持两分钟的靠墙深蹲。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It's about maintaining joint integrity and allowing that musculature to not fatigue when you ask it to do heavy and fast.

这是为了保持关节的完整性，并让肌肉组织在你要求肌肉组织做大而快的动作时不会疲劳。

So what I mean by that is you've got a whole combination of muscles in your shoulder and we'll generally call these the rotator cuff muscles.

所以我的意思是你的肩膀上有完整的肌肉组合，我们通常将它们称为肩袖肌肉。

Well let's imagine those slow-twitch postural muscles get fatigued and they start to lose contractile tension, and then you go do something heavy or fast or an emergency situation, those are already prefatigued.

好吧，让我们想象一下那些慢抽姿势肌肉变得疲劳，它们开始失去收缩张力，然后你去做一些重的或快速的事情或紧急情况，这些肌肉已经预先疲劳了。

You're going to rely more upon the fast-twitch muscle fibers which are there less for postural integrity.

你将更多地依赖快肌纤维，而快肌纤维对于姿势完整性的作用较少。

You're likely to get out of position and this is a whole recipe of like "God, why is my shoulder just hurting?

你很可能会失去位置，这就是“上帝啊，为什么我的肩膀会受伤？

God my back." That's very often a case of the slow-switch fibers and the slow muscle groups losing muscular endurance.

天啊我的背。”这通常是慢转换纤维和慢肌群失去肌肉耐力的情况。

So you need to build that back up so that they can control and hold the joint in the position so the fast-twitch fibers can then contract with force.

因此，您需要建立备份，以便它们可以控制并将关节保持在适当的位置，以便快肌纤维可以用力收缩。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I'm hoping that what I'm going to say next meets what you said accurately.

我希望我接下来要说的话能够准确地符合你所说的。

My experience is that getting injured lifting weights, or even doing housework or yard work, almost always happens when I'm not paying attention, fatigued — that's kind of obvious — but also getting in position to initiate a movement, setting down a weight or lifting weights off the rack or picking up dumbbells.

我的经验是，在举重时受伤，甚至在做家务或庭院工作时，几乎总是发生在我注意力不集中、疲劳时——这是很明显的——但也在准备开始运动、放下重物或从架子上举起重物或拿起哑铃时。

That's almost always when I seem to activate this lower back thing that happens every six or eight months.

几乎总是在这个时候，我似乎会激活每六到八个月发生一次的下背部活动。

And what you're saying, if I understand correctly, is that this muscular endurance from wall sits or planks or things of that sort, maybe you could give us a few other examples of these, can help us because they actually prepare the system to do what we normally think of as the more intense work.

如果我理解正确的话，你所说的是靠墙坐、木板或类似的东西产生的肌肉耐力，也许你可以给我们提供一些其他的例子，可以帮助我们，因为它们实际上让系统做好了我们通常认为更激烈的工作的准备。

So it sounds like it's really the architecture of the body includes nerves and muscles and everything else of course that lets the limbs and other kind of action end of the body do its best work.

所以听起来这确实是身体的结构，包括神经和肌肉以及其他一切，当然可以让四肢和身体的其他类型的动作末端发挥最佳作用。

Is that ?

是吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

...

...

Express its own power and force.

表达自己的力量和力量。

Yep.

是的。

We've actually landed on one of my final laws of strength conditioning, which is similar to what I said earlier.

我们实际上已经得出了我的力量调节的最终法则之一，这与我之前所说的类似。

So I said exercises do not determine adaptations.

所以我说练习并不决定适应。

Application determines adaptation.

应用决定适应。

So it sounds similar, but it's quite different.

所以听起来很相似，但其实有很大不同。

There are no good or bad exercises.

练习没有好坏之分。

There's only good or bad application.

只有好或坏的应用程序。

Here's a great example of that.

这是一个很好的例子。

So you do not get hurt deadlifting because deadlifts are dangerous.

所以你在硬拉时不会受伤，因为硬拉很危险。

You only get hurt deadlifting because you either got in bad position ...

你只会在硬拉中受伤，因为你要么处于不好的位置......

you got in bad position because you either started in bad position, which is one of the things you just said, or you ended up in bad position, you did too much volume, you did too much intensity, or you did too much complexity.

你处于糟糕的位置，因为你要么开始时处于糟糕的位置，这是你刚才所说的事情之一，要么你最终处于糟糕的位置，你做了太多的体积，你做了太多的强度，或者你做了太多的复杂性。

Those last three things all hurt you because they result in the first one, which is out of position.

最后三件事都会伤害你，因为它们会导致第一件事错位。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Or another way to think about this is if it's not a visible change in position is stress got put into a part of the system that should not absorb that much stress.

或者另一种思考方式是，如果位置没有发生明显的变化，那么压力就会被施加到系统中不应该吸收那么多压力的部分。

So you did too much of it, you did it too heavy, you got fatigued, and so you broke position, you got too heavy, so you broke position, you made the exercise too complex, you put too many moving parts in it, you put too many joints in it, and you got out of position.

所以你做得太多了，你做得太重了，你感到疲劳，所以你破坏了姿势，你太重了，所以你破坏了姿势，你让练习变得太复杂，你在其中放置了太多的活动部件，你在其中放置了太多的关节，然后你就失去了姿势。

You did that too many times over time.

随着时间的推移，你这样做的次数太多了。

Now we've led to either an acute injury, bam, back pops and you fall on the floor, or just like "Man, this thing is hurting," over time.

现在，随着时间的推移，我们要么导致严重受伤，砰的一声，背部爆裂，然后你跌倒在地板上，要么就像“伙计，这东西很疼”。

All these are results of the same thing.

所有这些都是同一件事的结果。

So you cannot ever blame the exercise for causing the problem.

所以你不能把问题归咎于锻炼。

It's always either the user or the coach.

总是要么是用户，要么是教练。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You programmed way too much here, and I can't handle that position, or you yourself went into it too much.

你在这里编程太多了，我无法处理这个位置，或者你自己投入太多。

So if you're getting these little tweaks and problems going on, you've made an error in one of those things.

因此，如果您遇到这些小调整和问题，那么您就在其中一件事上犯了错误。

So simply back off, reduce the complexity, give yourself more stability, less moving parts, do less volume, do less intensity.

所以，干脆退后一步，降低复杂性，给自己更多的稳定性，减少活动部件，减少运动量，减少强度。

In fact, if you look at the people from the physical therapy world in terms of the pain literature, it's very clear that just stopping a movement is very rarely going to work.

事实上，如果你从疼痛文献的角度来观察物理治疗界的人们，你会发现很明显，仅仅停止运动很少会起作用。

What you want to do is back off all the way down to just below that threshold of that's what aggravates it, and you want to train right there.

你想要做的就是一路退到低于那个加剧它的阈值，并且你想要在那里训练。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

That's going to allow you to do two things.

这将允许你做两件事。

Number one, tissue tolerance, and then number two, desensitization.

第一，组织耐受，第二，脱敏。

A lot of pain stuff, and you can probably speak a lot about this, especially with things like low back pain, is there's not necessarily often much damage there.

很多疼痛的事情，你可能可以谈论很多，特别是像腰痛这样的事情，那里不一定经常有很大的伤害。

It's a lot of hypersensitization of just pain signal, pain signal.

这是对疼痛信号的高度敏感，疼痛信号。

Omitting the movement entirely does not get that signal to go away.

完全忽略该运动并不会让该信号消失。

You need to train just below that signal and desensitize it.

您需要在该信号下方进行训练并使其不敏感。

So you want to make sure that the muscular endurance allows you just putting volume right below where you start to get a tweak, and it is beautifully effective for that.

因此，你要确保肌肉耐力允许你将音量设置在你开始调整的位置下方，这对此非常有效。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Yeah, I've experienced this right side lower-back pain for years, sometimes shooting down the hip.

是的，我多年来一直经历右侧下背部疼痛，有时会从臀部向下疼痛。

The two things that really helped were doing anterior tib work, so hats off to Knees Over Toes Guy, Ben Patrick, who has created a lot of popularity around tib work.

真正有帮助的两件事是做前胫骨训练，所以向膝盖在脚趾上的家伙 Ben Patrick 致敬，他在胫骨训练方面赢得了很多人的欢迎。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It turns out, joints, full range of motion, you're in a better spot.

事实证明，关节、全方位的运动，你处于更好的位置。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Something about stabilizing the stuff from the knee down helped my back, and then also some neck work, and friends of mine are always teasing me that my gym is filled with the most bizarre equipment.

稳定膝盖以下的东西对我的背部有帮助，还有一些颈部的锻炼，我的朋友们总是嘲笑我，说我的健身房里装满了最奇怪的设备。

It doesn't look like any other gym.

它看起来不像任何其他健身房。

A lot of it's just designed to keep me healthy and still training.

其中很多只是为了让我保持健康并继续训练。

But I love this idea of getting right at below the threshold of pain activation and not simply going into complete nonaction or just taking complete rest because that actually can be detrimental.

但我喜欢这个想法，即让疼痛处于激活阈值以下，而不是简单地完全不采取行动或完全休息，因为这实际上可能是有害的。

I'd love to talk about a few items that support training of all kinds and where there's a lot of confusion and, indeed, misconception and mystery and just get your take on these.

我很想谈谈一些支持各种培训的项目，以及其中存在很多混乱、甚至误解和神秘的地方，并了解您对这些项目的看法。

And I just want to acknowledge at the outset that for some of these there's a lot of science, for some of them there's less science, but there certainly is a lot of experience in your camp, and those categories are cold, heat, and hydration.

我只想从一开始就承认，对于其中一些有很多科学依据，对于其中一些则缺乏科学依据，但你们的阵营中肯定有很多经验，这些类别是冷、热和水合作用。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Because obviously, whether or not you're a runner, whether or not you're strength training, if you're a human being you need to hydrate.

因为显然，无论你是否是跑步者，无论你是否进行力量训练，如果你是一个人，你都需要补充水分。

But in terms of work output and physical work output maybe even cognitive work output, maybe tackle hydration first.

但就工作输出和体力工作输出而言，甚至可能是认知工作输出，也许首先要解决水合问题。

There is what I call and what I think is now come to be known as the Galpin equation, which you really do deserve credit for because I think that people realize that there are a range of solutions out there, but there is a really a desperate need for straightforward solutions that work for 75% of people 75% of the time.

这就是我所说的、我认为现在被称为加尔平方程的东西，你确实值得赞扬，因为我认为人们意识到存在一系列的解决方案，但确实迫切需要能够在 75% 的时间里为 75% 的人提供帮助的简单解决方案。

So hydration is key.

所以补水是关键。

Maybe you could underscore just how key it is for us, and then what is the Galpin equation, as I call it?

也许你可以强调它对我们来说有多重要，那么我所说的加尔平方程是什么？

And I think others are now referring to it.

我认为其他人现在正在提到它。

Yeah.

是的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Okay.

好的。

Benefits of hydration slash consequences of mishydration, so whether that's dehydration or overload ...

补水的好处可以减少缺水的后果，所以无论是脱水还是超负荷......

Physiology has hormetic curves.

生理学具有毒物兴奋曲线。

Right now, typically we think about this in terms of toxicology.

现在，我们通常从毒理学的角度来思考这个问题。

So what this means is at some point giving you a dose of something, testosterone is a very easy example.

所以这意味着在某个时候给你一剂东西，睾酮就是一个非常简单的例子。

If you're clinically deficient, or low in testosterone, and I give you a little bit and it brings you back into a normal range, you generally see an improvement in health and functionality.

如果您在临床上缺乏睾酮或睾酮水平较低，我给您一点，它会让您恢复到正常范围，您通常会看到健康和功能的改善。

Taking you though from normal to super high doesn't always necessarily provide additional benefit.

虽然将你从普通提升到超高并不一定会带来额外的好处。

In fact if you continue to go, it's going to provide detriment.

事实上，如果你继续走下去，将会带来损害。

So everything has this curve, and then some things are hormetic stressors, which means a small, short, fast insult is actually beneficial because then you come back bigger, faster, stronger; that's how adaptation works.

所以一切都有这条曲线，然后有些东西是激素应激源，这意味着小的、短的、快速的侮辱实际上是有益的，因为然后你会变得更大、更快、更强;这就是适应的原理。

Basic hormesis, okay.

基本的毒物兴奋效应，好吧。

Hydration's the same way.

补水也是同样的道理。

So at the end of the curve here, if you are underhydrated, we all know you could die.

因此，在曲线的末端，如果您水分不足，我们都知道您可能会死亡。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You have to have things.

你必须有东西。

In fact, water is the only thing that is ubiquitous across biology in terms of every living thing has to have it.

事实上，水是整个生物学中唯一普遍存在的东西，因为每一种生物都必须拥有它。

There's no other vitamin, mineral, nutrient that is required among all living things with exception of water.

除了水之外，所有生物都不需要其他维生素、矿物质和营养素。

So that should give you a pretty good indication of it's importante, right?

所以这应该可以很好地表明它的重要性，对吧？

You got to have this thing.

你必须拥有这个东西。

Down here, at the bottom, if you're dehydrated and I give you more, it's beneficial effects.

在这里，在底部，如果你脱水了，我给你更多，这是有益的效果。

However, if you are up the top already and I continue to give you more water past that, now we run into actual problems, and we can get what's called hyponatremia, which is more common than people realize.

然而，如果你已经达到了顶峰，而我继续给你更多的水，那么现在我们就会遇到实际的问题，我们可能会患上所谓的低钠血症，这比人们意识到的更常见。

Natremia being actually not referring to the water, but the sodium concentration being too low, and you've probably talked about that at length of why that's an issue.

钠血症实际上不是指水，而是指钠浓度太低，您可能已经详细讨论了为什么这是一个问题。

If sodium-potassium balances inside, outside of cell come off, your heart stops, right?

如果细胞内部、外部的钠钾平衡脱落，你的心脏就会停止跳动，对吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Muscle contraction ends and all these things.

肌肉收缩结束以及所有这些事情。

So you don't want to be over or underhydrated.

所以你不想水分过多或不足。

So understanding this rough equation I sort of loosely calculated one day is helpful for that.

因此，理解我有一天粗略计算出的这个粗略方程对此很有帮助。

I think the most context is talking about how much water to drink throughout the day and then how much water to drink during exercise.

我认为最多的背景是谈论全天喝多少水，然后是运动时喝多少水。

So the very easy answer is half your body weight ounces per day is a very loose guideline for total amount of fluid consumption.

因此，非常简单的答案是每天体重的一半盎司是一个非常宽松的液体消耗总量指南。

So if you weigh 200 pounds, aim for a hundred ounces of water, it's a very easy number.

因此，如果您体重 200 磅，目标是 100 盎司水，这是一个非常简单的数字。

If you hit that, you're probably, I'd say 90% of you are good 90% of the time, alone.

如果你做到了这一点，我想说，你们中的 90% 的人在 90% 的时间里很可能都是优秀的，独自一人。

If you then go to exercise, you need to then account for that fluid loss with exercise.

如果您随后去运动，则需要考虑运动导致的体液流失。

And in general you want to consume 125% to 150% of the amount of weight you lost in fluid.

一般来说，您希望通过液体摄入减掉的体重的 125% 到 150%。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

In other words, if you worked out and you were 200 pounds naked, and you went and did your workout, and then you dried off and you weighed yourself again and now you're 198 pounds, you lost two pounds of water, that's 32 ounces.

换句话说，如果你赤身裸体地锻炼了 200 磅，然后去锻炼，然后擦干身体，再次称重，现在你的体重是 198 磅，你失去了两磅水，即 32 盎司。

You want to drink back about 125% of that.

你想喝掉大约 125% 的水。

So instead of drinking 32 ounces, I want you to drink 40, 42, 45, something like this, because one of the reasons why is unless you're drinking something that is isotonic, meaning the same exact concentration in your blood and in your fluid, you're just going to go closer to that hyponatremia.

因此，我希望你不要喝 32 盎司，而是喝 40、42、45 盎司之类的，因为原因之一是除非你喝的是等渗的东西，也就是说你的血液和体液中的浓度完全相同，否则你只会更接近低钠血症。

You're going to get a bunch of baroreflector responses, and you're going to actually think you have too much fluid and you're going to urinate it out.

你会得到一堆压力反射器反应，你实际上会认为你有太多的液体，你会把它尿出来。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

What if I'm not weighing myself before and after workouts?

如果我在锻炼前后没有称体重怎么办？

Is there a shorthand version of this that after training for an hour, I should drink at least X number of ounces?

有没有一个简写版本，训练一小时后，我应该至少喝 X 盎司？

Assuming I'm not sweating super heavily.

假设我出汗不是很多。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

In that particular case, you could probably go something like, if everyone in the world did, I don't know, 12 to 20 ounces, that's probably pretty decent.

在这种特殊情况下，我不知道，如果世界上每个人都这样做的话，你可能会选择 12 到 20 盎司，这可能相当不错。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And they're probably doing that right?

他们可能这样做对吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And what about electrolytes, consuming salt, potassium and magnesium?

那么电解质、盐、钾和镁呢？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

But that thing only works though if you're coming in at optimal hydration, and this is the problem, this is why you have to flag this starting with a good total daily amount of water.

但这只有在你处于最佳水合状态时才有效，这就是问题所在，这就是为什么你必须从每日总饮水量开始标记这一点。

Because if you're coming in and you're like, "Oh, I drink two or three glasses of water a day," then you might need to drink 50 or 60 ounces postworkout because you are way behind.

因为如果你进来后会想，“哦，我每天喝两到三杯水”，那么你可能需要在锻炼后喝 50 或 60 盎司，因为你已经落后了。

So that like, oh, 12 ounces or so works if you're already generally very well hydrated.

因此，如果您的水分已经非常充足，那么 12 盎司左右就可以了。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And if people are drinking four to six glasses of water a day, but they're also drinking a lot of caffeine in any form, then they're going to be excreting more water in most cases, right?

如果人们每天喝四到六杯水，但他们还饮用大量任何形式的咖啡因，那么在大多数情况下他们会排出更多的水，对吗？

Because caffeine's a diuretic.

因为咖啡因是一种利尿剂。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It kind of is, but it kind of isn't, either.

有点是，但也有点不是。

It's not the diuretic that we used to think about it as.

它不是我们以前认为的利尿剂。

It is still fluid consumption, so it's only a diuretic if it causes you to excrete more fluid than it actually ...

它仍然是液体消耗，所以如果它导致您排出比实际更多的液体，那么它只是一种利尿剂......

was being intake.

正在摄入。

So if caffeine intake is in a normal range, I don't have to worry about the diuretic effects.

所以如果咖啡因的摄入量在正常范围内，我就不用担心利尿作用。

If someone is drinking 12 cups of coffee a day, or they're taking caffeine pills or something, now the excretion is going to outkick the coverage.

如果有人每天喝 12 杯咖啡，或者服用咖啡因药片或其他药物，那么现在的排泄量将超过覆盖范围。

So now we're going to have problems, right?

那么现在我们会遇到问题，对吗？

Because there's no fluid consumption with the caffeine pill.

因为服用咖啡因药丸时不会消耗液体。

So in general, things like tea consumption, I'm not super worried about those things.

所以总的来说，像喝茶这样的事情，我并不非常担心这些事情。

You can count those towards your total fluid intake if you want.

如果您愿意，您可以将这些计入总液体摄入量。

So if you're like, I drink 60 ounces of water plus 20 ounces of coffee and then this, you're going to add that all up and you're going to be totally okay.

所以，如果你喜欢，我喝 60 盎司水加 20 盎司咖啡，然后你把这些加起来就完全没问题了。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So natural form, you also have problems with synthetic forms of caffeine versus natural forms of caffeine.

因此，天然形式的咖啡因与天然形式的咖啡因相比，还存在合成形式的咖啡因问题。

Natural forms are pretty okay.

自然的形式是相当不错的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So coffee, tea, et cetera.

所以咖啡、茶等等。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, all that stuff.

是的，所有这些东西。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Pill form is where it gets tricky.

药丸形式是棘手的地方。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Always.

总是。

So in general, just eat real food and things, you're going to be just fine.

所以总的来说，只要吃真正的食物和东西，你就会没事的。

The last piece to consider is your diet quality matters because the fluid content in your food can vary wildly.

最后要考虑的是您的饮食质量很重要，因为食物中的液体含量可能会有很大差异。

So something like a bagel might be five to 10% water, or something like a watermelon is 98%, 95%, something in a huge range.

因此，像百吉饼这样的东西可能含有 5% 到 10% 的水，或者像西瓜这样的东西可能含有 98%、95% 的水，范围很大。

Even meat is very high percentage of fluid intake.

即使是肉类，液体摄入量的比例也非常高。

It's really high, even after you cook it, there's still a lot of fluid in there.

它真的很高，即使你煮熟了，里面仍然有很多液体。

So if you're eating a whole food, mostly whole food-based diet, your endogenous hydration is actually pretty high already, just from your fluid.

因此，如果您吃天然食物，主要是基于天然食物的饮食，那么您的内源性水分实际上已经相当高了，仅来自您的液体。

If you're eating a very highly processed, dehydrated, oversalted diet, you're way low on hydration just in your food.

如果你吃的是高度加工、脱水、盐分过高的饮食，那么你的食物中的水分含量就很低。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So you have to factor all these things.

所以你必须考虑所有这些因素。

In fact, one of the things that happens to us constantly with folks that go from a highly processed, low-quality diet to a high-quality one is they're just peeing nonstop.

事实上，对于那些从高度加工的低质量饮食转向高质量饮食的人来说，经常发生的一件事就是他们不停地小便。

"What the hell is going on?" I'm like, "Well, you actually have brought in 60 additional ounces of water in your diet relative to what you used to have, and you've gone from 10 grams of sodium there to four, to two, sometimes one, sometimes it gets very low because you're not like salt ...

“到底是怎么回事？”我想，“嗯，相对于以前，你实际上在饮食中多摄入了 60 盎司的水，并且你的钠含量从 10 克增加到了 4 克、2 克，有时是 1 克，有时它会变得非常低，因为你不像盐......

Are you salting your food?" "No." Okay, well we don't have sodium intake then; we're way down.

你的食物加盐了吗？” “不。”好吧，那么我们就不摄入钠了；我们已经很落后了。

So everything that we're considering is based on that.

所以我们考虑的一切都是基于此。

So let's assume someone's eating a pretty well-balanced diet, they're drinking 60 ounces of water and maybe some caffeine and coffee and tea, things like that.

因此，我们假设某人的饮食非常均衡，他们喝了 60 盎司的水，也许还有一些咖啡因、咖啡和茶之类的东西。

We don't exactly know the optimal amount of sodium one should ...

我们并不确切知道一个人应该摄入的最佳钠量......

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

We don't exactly know the optimal amount of sodium one should intake.

我们并不确切知道一个人应该摄入的最佳钠量。

It is very clear high sodium concentrations are still associated with a lot of negative health outcomes, especially in combination with poor physical activity, in combination with low food quality and other comorbidities.

很明显，高钠浓度仍然与许多负面健康结果相关，特别是与身体活动不良、食品质量低下和其他合并症相结合。

That's a very bad thing.

这是一件非常糟糕的事情。

You need to be very careful about those things.

你需要非常小心这些事情。

If everything else is okay, we're okay playing with a little bit of higher salt.

如果其他一切都好的话，我们就可以玩一点高盐。

In fact, you're probably going to feel better.

事实上，你可能会感觉好一些。

You're going to feel generally pretty good.

一般来说，你会感觉很好。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

It needs to be very clear.

它需要非常清楚。

If you are overweight, highly stressed, and you don't have a lot of these things ticked off, and you have known comorbidities, you really need to pay attention to salt intake.

如果您超重、压力大，而且您没有太多这些问题，并且您有已知的合并症，那么您确实需要注意盐的摄入量。

It can be very nasty.

这可能非常令人讨厌。

So that being said, what we're generally going to look at for folks is, are you ...

话虽这么说，我们通常会关注人们的是，你...

at least can we categorize you as a low-sodium or high-sodium sweater?

至少我们可以将您归类为低钠或高钠毛衣吗？

If so, there's a whole list of electrolytes you can look up that are going to have something like 200 to 400 milligrams per serving.

如果是这样，您可以查找完整的电解质清单，每份的电解质含量约为 200 至 400 毫克。

And there's a whole list of these things.

还有这些东西的完整列表。

If you're a low-sodium sweater, I'm probably going to send you after one of those.

如果你是一件低钠毛衣，我可能会送你一件这样的衣服。

If you're a high-sodium sweater, there's a lot of electrolyte supplements that are closer to 600 or 800, even a whole gram per single serving size.

如果您是高钠血症患者，有很多电解质补充剂接近 600 或 800，甚至每份含有一整克。

So you want to play with that, a very ...

所以你想玩这个，一个非常......

PART 4 OF 6 ENDS Andrew Huberman:

第 4 部分（共 6 部分）结束 Andrew Huberman：

How do you know if you're a low-sodium or high-sodium sweater?

你怎么知道你的毛衣是低钠还是高钠？

We actually have an episode on salt we put out, or is coming out soon, if it hasn't come out already, which is ...

实际上，我们已经推出了一集关于盐的剧集，或者即将推出，如果它还没有推出的话，那就是......

you know when you look at the hazard ratios for salt intake?

当您查看盐摄入量的风险比时您知道吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Basically your probability of really bad things happening to you goes way up as you get towards a lot of sodium intake, say of 10 or 12 grams day.

基本上，当您摄入大量钠（例如每天 10 或 12 克）时，您发生真正糟糕的事情的可能性就会大大增加。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Totally.

完全可以。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And this is translated to teaspoons of salt, et cetera.

这被翻译成茶匙盐等等。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

But also very low sodium intake is a problem.

但钠摄入量过低也是一个问题。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

No question about it.

毫无疑问。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

It's not a perfect U shape.

这不是一个完美的 U 形。

It's kind of a J-shaped curve or a kind of hockey stick shape, more or less.

它或多或少是一种 J 形曲线或一种曲棍球棒形状。

But how would I know if I'm a low-sodium or a high-sodium sweater?

但我怎么知道我是低钠毛衣还是高钠毛衣呢？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Would I just kind of lick my sweat or have someone else do that?

我会舔自己的汗水还是让其他人这样做？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You can yeah, find a super friend who will lick your sweat for you.

是的，你可以找到一个超级朋友，他会为你舔汗。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

No willing volunteers that I'm aware of.

据我所知，没有自愿的志愿者。

But would I be able to tell?

但我能说出来吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, you can get sweat testing done.

是的，你可以进行汗液测试。

Actually you have a number of options.

实际上你有很多选择。

The kind of original one that most of us use in the background for many years was called Levelen.

我们大多数人在后台使用多年的原始版本称为 Levelen。

They'll send you out a little patch, you can wear that, send it in to the lab, and they'll measure it directly in the lab and send it back.

他们会给你发一个小贴片，你可以戴上它，把它送到实验室，他们会直接在实验室测量并将其寄回。

It's $150 bucks or something like.

大概是 150 美元或者类似的东西。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Do they bin you into low, medium and high sweating?

他们是否将您分为低出汗、中出汗和高出汗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

They're going to do that, but they're going to tell you exactly the milligrams.

他们会这么做，但他们会准确地告诉你毫克数。

And they're actually going to tell you what products and stuff that they're exactly matched to.

他们实际上会告诉你他们与哪些产品和东西完全匹配。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Do you do this with professional athletes?

你对职业运动员这样做吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

We have many times, yeah.

我们有很多次了，是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Interesting.

有趣。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

You can do a more consumer grade version.

你可以做一个更消费级的版本。

Gatorade has a patch, for $25 bucks you can get two of them.

Gatorade 有一个贴片，花 25 美元你就可以买两个。

You can put that patch on your left forearm and download the Gatorade app, and you can do a workout, measure it right there and click it over and they'll tell you exactly, not only higher or low, but again, they'll tell you the milligrams of sodium that are in your sweat, and you can figure out again, kind of high, medium, or low.

你可以把这个贴片放在你的左前臂上，下载佳得乐应用程序，然后你可以进行锻炼，在那里测量，然后点击它，他们会准确地告诉你，不仅是高或低，而且还会告诉你汗液中钠的毫克数，你可以再次算出高、中或低。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Interesting.

有趣。

I do much better on a slightly higher sodium intake.

当钠摄入量稍高时，我的表现要好得多。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Most do.

大多数都是这样。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And my carbohydrate, I do eat carbohydrates, I'm one of those that it is pretty moderate, but I try and eat clean foods.

我的碳水化合物，我确实吃碳水化合物，我是那些相当适量的人之一，但我尝试吃干净的食物。

So I notice, and I tend to be slightly low blood pressure.

所以我注意到，我的血压往往有点低。

So again, to reiterate the warning there that if somebody has prehypertension or has hypertension or is obese, you really do need to be careful with your sodium intake.

再次重申，如果有人患有高血压前期、高血压或肥胖，你确实需要小心钠的摄入量。

But many people seem to find that they feel better when they increase their sodium intake, and they're still in that healthy portion of the hazard ratio.

但许多人似乎发现，当增加钠摄入量时，他们会感觉更好，而且他们仍然处于风险比的健康部分。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Most of the athletes, I would say in general, we're going to go higher in salt when they come and we're going to run their stuff, we're going to add salt.

一般来说，我想说的是，大多数运动员，当他们来的时候，我们的盐含量会更高，我们会跑他们的东西，我们会添加盐。

Almost always.

几乎总是如此。

Very few times have I gone, "Ah, we need to cut this back." One of the exceptions are the ones that come in that eat like 14-year-olds, and I'm like, "Okay, you're at 15 milligrams or 15 grams a day because you're eating nothing but ..."

我很少会说：“啊，我们需要削减这个。”其中一个例外是那些吃得像 14 岁孩子的人，我想，“好吧，你每天摄入 15 毫克或 15 克，因为你什么都不吃，除了……”

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Garbage.

垃圾。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

So we're going to come down, you're going to feel way better.

所以我们要下来，你会感觉好多了。

All this bloating and everything else that's going to happen go down.

所有这些腹胀和其他所有将要发生的事情都会下降。

You can do that.

你可以这么做。

There are actually more biosensors that are coming out, that are not available yet, but they're coming very soon in this space.

实际上还有更多的生物传感器正在问世，虽然目前还没有上市，但它们很快就会出现在这个领域。

They're going to be able to give you real-time metrics on salt.

他们将能够为您提供有关盐的实时指标。

So you can pay attention to those.

所以你可以关注那些。

I haven't seen one and used one personally, so I don't want to espouse about how good or bad it is, but I know that those are coming from a handful of companies.

我还没有亲眼见过并使用过它，所以我不想谈论它的好坏，但我知道这些产品来自少数公司。

An easy way to do is just wear a hat or wear some sort of headband or something and do your workout, take it off.

一个简单的方法就是戴上帽子或戴上某种头带或其他东西，然后进行锻炼，然后将其摘下。

If you see a huge white band, or if it's completely clear, then that's going to tell you.

如果您看到一条巨大的白色带子，或者它完全清晰，那么这就会告诉您。

Big white band, you're probably a high-salt sweater.

大白带，你可能是一件高盐毛衣。

Completely clear, very little coming out.

完全清楚，很少出来。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

That's great.

太好了。

And I can see the posts on Instagram now.

我现在可以在 Instagram 上看到这些帖子了。

People showing their salt band from sweating.

人们因出汗而露出盐带。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

I mean obviously salt is so essential for so many physiological functions.

我的意思是，盐对于许多生理功能来说显然是至关重要的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

You don't it want too high or too low, but if you're losing more, it makes sense you would need to take in more.

你不希望太高或太低，但如果你损失更多，那么你就需要吸收更多。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So half of my body weight in ounces as just a foundation of fluid intake.

因此，我体重的一半（以盎司为单位）只是液体摄入量的基础。

Coffee and tea could be included in that, but that should probably be mostly water or things similar to it.

咖啡和茶可以包含在其中，但可能主要应该是水或类似的东西。

And then during exercise, how do I want to think about this again?

然后在锻炼的时候，我要怎么再想这个问题呢？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Let's say I'm a high-salt output, then I'd want to drink maybe 40 ounces of water with, or more?

假设我是高盐输出者，那么我想喝 40 盎司或更多的水？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah.

是的。

Okay, I'll do this easier.

好的，我会更容易地做到这一点。

Let's talk about pre, and mid and post, right?

我们来谈谈前、中、后吧？

So what to drink pre.

那么术前喝什么。

If you come in having hit these rules, you're okay.

如果您进来时遵守了这些规则，那就没问题。

And preworkout can be as little as like five or six ounces, basically a couple sips of water, fine.

锻炼前可以少至五六盎司，基本上喝几口水就可以了。

If you come in poorly hydrated, then you maybe need to go more like 12.

如果你刚来时水分不足，那么你可能需要补充 12 份左右的水分。

But here's the deal.

但事情是这样的。

If you start off a session in a bad spot, you're not going to catch back up.

如果你在一个糟糕的位置开始训练，你将无法赶上。

You're in trouble.

你有麻烦了。

Let's say you come and you follow the direction, 500 milligrams salt before, 500 milligrams after.

假设你来了，按照指示，之前加 500 毫克盐，之后加 500 毫克盐。

A very easy rule.

一个非常简单的规则。

Pick whatever source you want.

选择您想要的任何来源。

That's a couple of sprinkles of table salt.

那是几粒食盐。

If you want Himalayan, that's fine.

如果你想要喜马拉雅，那没问题。

You don't have to.

你不必这样做。

Himalayan's actually a fairly low-sodium salt.

喜马拉雅盐实际上是一种相当低钠的盐。

So it's not the best for this purpose.

所以这对于这个目的来说并不是最好的。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

If you're a higher-salt sweater, a little bit more.

如果你的毛衣含盐量较高，那就多一点。

If you want to go choose an electrolyte, of which there are an infinite amount, you can look on the packet and it'll tell you 250 milligrams per serving or 400 or 600 or whatever it happens to be.

如果你想选择一种无限量的电解质，你可以查看包装，它会告诉你每份含有 250 毫克，或者 400 或 600 毫克，或者随便什么。

But around 500 pre, 500 post is a very general rule.

但大约 500 pre，500 post 是一个非常普遍的规则。

And then during is, thanks to you, my famous Galpin equation now that is all over the world.

然后，多亏了你，我著名的加尔平方程现在已经传遍了全世界。

All I did is I took the literature and I said, "Okay, in general, the research shows pretty clearly two milligrams per kilogram body weight over 15 minutes seems to put you in a pretty good spot." Most people don't think about kilograms or milliliters.

我所做的只是查阅文献，然后说：“好吧，总的来说，研究非常清楚地表明，在 15 分钟内每公斤体重摄入 2 毫克似乎会让你处于一个非常好的位置。”大多数人不会考虑公斤或毫升。

So can I just run that over?

那么我可以把它运行一遍吗？

And then it turns out it's about your body weight divided by 30, in ounces.

结果就是你的体重除以 30（以盎司为单位）。

That's all you have to do.

这就是你所要做的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So body weight in pounds divided by 30.

所以体重（磅）除以 30。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yeah, exactly right.

是的，完全正确。

So you weigh 200 pounds divided by 30 and that's the number of ounces you're going to want to go every 15 or 20 minutes or so.

因此，您的体重为 200 磅除以 30，这就是您每 15 或 20 分钟左右想要消耗的盎司数。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

So I'm getting that amount every 15 to 20 minutes throughout the training.

所以在整个训练过程中，我每 15 到 20 分钟就会得到这个量。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

And now in the weight room, that's pretty easy to do.

现在在举重室，这很容易做到。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

'Cause there are rest intervals, but people will need to do this while running.

因为有休息时间，但人们在跑步时需要这样做。

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

Yep.

是的。

Andrew Huberman:

安德鲁·休伯曼：

Or cycling, and that can cause a little bit of gastric distress if you're not used to it.

或者骑自行车，如果你不习惯的话，可能会引起一点胃部不适。

Is that right?

是这样吗？

You can learn to run with some water in your belly?

肚子里有水可以学跑步吗？

Andy Galpin:

安迪·加尔平：

One hundred percent.

百分之一百。