Guest Series | Dr. Andy Galpin: How to Build Physical Endurance & Lose Fat
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Guest Series, where I and an expert guest discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到胡伯曼实验室嘉宾系列，我和一位专家嘉宾讨论了日常生活中的科学和基于科学的工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
Today's episode is the third in the six-episode series on fitness, exercise, and performance.
今天的节目是有关健身、锻炼和表演的六集系列节目中的第三集。
Today's episode is all about endurance and fat loss.
今天的节目是关于耐力和减肥的。
That is, the specific protocols required to achieve the four different kinds of endurance, and how to maximize fat loss.
也就是说，实现四种不同耐力所需的具体方案，以及如何最大限度地减少脂肪。
Dr. Andy Galpin, great to be back.
安迪·加尔平博士，很高兴回来。
Today, we're going to talk about endurance, and I'm very interested in this conversation because I, like many other people, strive to get a certain amount of cardiovascular work in each week.
今天，我们要谈论耐力，我对这个对话非常感兴趣，因为我和许多其他人一样，努力每周获得一定量的心血管工作。
Maybe a long-ish jog, maybe a swim, ride the bike, et cetera.
也许是长距离慢跑，也许是游泳，骑自行车等等。
But when I think about the word endurance, the idea that almost immediately comes to mind is about doing something for a long period of time repeatedly.
但当我想到“耐力”这个词时，我几乎立刻想到的就是长时间重复做某件事。
But I have a feeling that there are other ways to trigger this adaptation that we call the endurance adaptation.
但我有一种感觉，还有其他方法可以触发这种适应，我们称之为耐力适应。
So I'm excited to learn about that.
所以我很高兴了解这一点。
I'm also excited to learn about the fuel systems in the body that allow for endurance and other modes of repeated activity.
我也很高兴了解体内的燃料系统，这些系统可以实现耐力和其他重复活动模式。
So, in order to kick things off, I'd love for you to frame the conversation by telling us what is endurance?
那么，为了开始这件事，我希望你能通过告诉我们什么是耐力来构建对话？
And are there indeed a large variety of ways to induce what we call this endurance adaptation?
是否确实有多种方法可以引发我们所说的耐力适应？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
The way I want to start actually here is calling back to some of the things we talked about in our previous conversations, which are really, people exercise for three reasons.
我实际上想在这里开始的方式是回顾我们在之前的谈话中讨论过的一些事情，这些事情实际上是人们出于三个原因进行锻炼。
Number one, you want to feel better.
第一，你想要感觉更好。
Number two, you want to look a certain way.
第二，你想要以某种方式看起来。
And then number three, you want to be able to do that for a long time.
第三，你希望能够长期这样做。
Right?
正确的？
So you need to-- The way that we say it in sports is look good, feel good, play good.
所以你需要——我们在体育运动中所说的方式是看起来很好，感觉很好，打得很好。
Right?
正确的？
So I want some sort of functionality to be able to perform a certain way, whatever that is for you.
因此，我希望某种功能能够以某种方式执行，无论这适合您。
You want to be able to look a certain way that, whatever that matters for you, and then you want to be able to do that for a long time.
无论对你来说重要的是什么，你都希望能够以某种方式看待，然后你希望能够长期这样做。
So when it comes to endurance, we have a bunch of misnomers here, which is the same thing with the strength training or resistance exercise side, where we wanted to dispel this myth that I lift weights only because I want to gain muscle or play a sport.
因此，当谈到耐力时，我们这里有很多用词不当，这与力量训练或阻力运动方面是一样的，我们想消除这样的神话：我举重只是因为我想增加肌肉或参加运动。
And I want to do cardio because I want to either lose fat or for long health's sake.
我想做有氧运动，因为我想减肥或为了长期健康。
And just like we smashed that myth from the strength training side, I want to smash it from the endurance training side.
就像我们从力量训练方面打破了这个神话一样，我想从耐力训练方面打破它。
There are so many other reasons that you want to perform endurance training, regardless of your goal, right?
无论您的目标是什么，您想要进行耐力训练的原因还有很多，对吧？
Whether it is longevity, whether it is performance, or whether it is aesthetics.
无论是长寿，无论是性能，还是美观。
And so I want to cover all those reasons, exactly what to do, protocols of course, and why those things are working that way.
所以我想涵盖所有这些原因，确切地说要做什么，当然是协议，以及为什么这些事情会这样工作。
In general, though, the quick answer is, really endurance comes down to two independent factors.
不过，总的来说，快速的答案是，真正的耐力取决于两个独立的因素。
Factor number one is fatigue management, and then factor number two is fueling.
第一个因素是疲劳管理，第二个因素是补充能量。
And that's all it really comes down to.
归根结底就是如此。
So all the different types of training are going to reach a limitation, which are either, again, your ability to deal with some sort of fatigue, and that's generally a fatigue signal.
因此，所有不同类型的训练都会达到一个限制，即您处理某种疲劳的能力，这通常是疲劳信号。
The other one is managing some sort of restriction of energy input.
另一个是管理某种能源输入限制。
And the spoiler here is a lot of the times people think it's a fueling issue, when really it's a fatigue management issue or the opposite.
这里的剧透是很多时候人们认为这是一个加油问题，而实际上这是一个疲劳管理问题或相反。
And to have a complete health spectrum, regardless of whether you're a high-performance athlete like I typically deal with, or general public, you need to be able to do both.
为了拥有完整的健康范围，无论您是像我通常接触的高水平运动员，还是普通公众，您都需要能够做到这两点。
Manage fatigue as well as understand fuel storage.
管理疲劳并了解燃料储存。
So, that's really what we're going to get into today.
这就是我们今天要讨论的内容。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Fantastic.
太棒了。
I can't wait.
我等不及了。
Before we dive in, I'm going to ask you what I often ask people who are expert in their respective fields, which is: Is there any non-obvious tool or mechanism, or tool and mechanism, that can allow people to access better endurance?
在我们深入讨论之前，我要问你们我经常问各自领域的专家的问题，那就是：是否有任何非显而易见的工具或机制，或者工具和机制，可以让人们获得更好的耐力？
When I think about training for endurance, again, I think about trying to run longer and longer each week.
当我考虑耐力训练时，我会再次考虑尝试每周跑得越来越长。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Or swim further and further, and so on.
或者游得越来越远，等等。
But I do wonder whether or not there are other forms of training that can amplify the endurance adaptation that I or most people perhaps don't think of as endurance.
但我确实想知道是否有其他形式的训练可以增强我或大多数人可能不认为是耐力的耐力适应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
The way I want to answer this is if we look back and think about how we've answered that question with power and strength, and force production, it is really about how much can you produce maximally once.
我想回答这个问题的方式是，如果我们回顾并思考我们如何用力量和力量以及力量生产来回答这个问题，这实际上是关于你一次最多可以生产多少。
What you're asking now is, how can I repeat that same quality of performance?
您现在要问的是，我怎样才能重复同样的性能质量？
If that's the case, endurance really comes down to your ability to maintain proper mechanics.
如果是这样的话，耐力实际上取决于您保持适当力学的能力。
The biggest way we can increase your endurance exponentially very quickly is mechanical.
我们能够快速成倍提高耐力的最大方法是机械。
And this is starting with breathing.
这要从呼吸开始。
And so we need to be breathing properly, we need to have proper posture and positions, and then we need to be moving well.
所以我们需要正确的呼吸，我们需要有正确的姿势和姿势，然后我们需要良好的运动。
Efficiency is going to trump force, always, for endurance.
对于耐力而言，效率永远胜过力量。
The other side of the equation is not that.
等式的另一边并非如此。
You can have a little bit of leaks in your mechanics and still squat well or jump high and be fine, because you don't have to suffer those consequences repeatedly.
你的动作可能有一点漏洞，但仍然可以很好地深蹲或跳得很高，因为你不必反复承受这些后果。
Right?
正确的？
That's going to drain you over time.
随着时间的推移，这会让你精疲力尽。
So, the quickest way to improve endurance is to improve mechanics, and the mechanical thing I would go after first is your breathing techniques, your pattern, your entire approach, as well as your posture.
所以，提高耐力最快的方法就是提高力学，而我首先要追求的力学就是你的呼吸技巧、你的模式、你的整个方法以及你的姿势。
And then from there, the third one would be your movement technique.
然后从那里开始，第三个就是你的动作技巧。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Is it possible to describe the best way to breathe when doing endurance training, or is it far more complex than that?
是否可以描述进行耐力训练时的最佳呼吸方式，或者它远比这复杂？
And if it is far more complex than that, then certainly we can get into it during today's episode.
如果事情比这复杂得多，那么我们当然可以在今天的节目中深入探讨。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it is both of those.
是的，两者都是。
I will give you a quick answer, though.
不过，我会给你一个快速的答案。
A lot of the times you can kind of hit the cheat code, which is nasal breathing.
很多时候你可能会遇到作弊码，那就是鼻呼吸。
There's plenty of times when you don't want to nasal breathe or don't need to nasal breathe, but just, again, as like a one tool that is a pretty general answer, if you can do that, a lot of the times that will fix breathing mechanics just by default.
很多时候你不想用鼻呼吸或不需要用鼻呼吸，但是，就像一个工具一样，它是一个非常通用的答案，如果你能做到这一点，很多时候默认情况下就会修复呼吸机制。
And we can maybe talk about why that is later.
我们也许可以稍后再讨论为什么会这样。
But that would be my sort of one-sentence bullet point answer immediately of how to get in the right positions.
但这将是我立即对如何进入正确位置的一句话要点回答。
The second one would be simply looking at your posture Right?
第二个就是简单地看你的姿势，对吗？
So whether you're on a bike or you're doing a lift or you're running, if you're literally hunched over and your ribs are touching your femur or getting closer and closer, like tends to happen on a bike or an Air Assault thing for somebody I've seen recently.
因此，无论你是骑自行车、举重还是跑步，如果你弯腰驼背，肋骨接触股骨或越来越近，就像我最近见过的人在骑自行车或空袭时经常发生的情况一样。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
This morning, I was on the assault bike doing a sprint, and I asked Andy, Dr. Galpin, to critique my form and anything else he wanted to critique so that I could improve.
今天早上，我骑着突击自行车进行冲刺，我请安迪（加尔平博士）批评我的表现以及他想要批评的任何其他内容，以便我能够提高。
And he did comment on my rather C-shaped posture.
他确实评论了我相当C形的姿势。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct.
正确。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Encouraged me to be more upright-
鼓励我更加正直——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
which I should probably do now as well.
我现在也应该这样做。
And he also cued me to the fact that during a one-minute sprint, there is something that is, quote-unquote, "magic" that happens right about the 40-second mark.
他还提醒我一个事实，即在一分钟的冲刺中，在 40 秒的时间里会发生一些“神奇”的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And I use that as a milestone to look for.
我用它作为寻找的里程碑。
And indeed, something does happen at the 40 seconds into a one-minute sprint where all of a sudden it does seem to get much easier for reasons I don't understand.
事实上，在一分钟冲刺的第 40 秒确实发生了一些事情，突然之间，由于我不明白的原因，事情似乎变得容易多了。
Maybe you can tell me that, but it certainly had nothing to do with my posture.
也许你可以告诉我，但这肯定与我的姿势无关。
My posture needs improvement.
我的姿势需要改进。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So, breathing mechanics and breathing strategies.
所以，呼吸力学和呼吸策略。
People tend to be over-breathing early on, and this is going to lead to problems later.
人们在早期往往会过度呼吸，这会导致以后出现问题。
So having a more strategic breathing pattern and approach is, again, a very quick solution.
因此，采用更具策略性的呼吸模式和方法也是一个非常快速的解决方案。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I know that we're going to dive very deep into the mechanisms of energy and metabolism-
我知道我们将深入研究能量和新陈代谢的机制 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
and endurance today.
和今天的耐力。
But as long as we're having a discussion about these brief sort of tidbits of how to improve endurance, are there any other ways to improve endurance that are of relatively short time investment, even if they require a lot of energy?
但是，只要我们讨论这些关于如何提高耐力的简短花絮，是否还有其他方法可以在相对较短的时间内投入，即使需要大量的精力来提高耐力？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
The classic paradigm you're going to find here is steady-state long duration posed up against what a lot of folks will now call higher intensity, interval training specifically.
您将在这里找到的经典范式是稳态长时间训练，与许多人现在所说的高强度间歇训练相对应。
And there's a lot of misconceptions here.
这里存在很多误解。
The quick answer is you need to be doing both.
简单的回答是你需要两者都做。
And there's probably a bunch of stuff in between that you should be practicing.
中间可能有很多你应该练习的东西。
If you honestly want to maximize those three factors we talked about at the beginning, you need to be training across this full spectrum.
如果你真的想最大化我们一开始谈到的这三个因素，你需要进行全方位的培训。
Just like I told you to train across the full spectrum of your lifting, we want to be doing the same thing here.
就像我告诉你要进行全方位举重训练一样，我们希望在这里做同样的事情。
So are there independent special factors that can happen with the shorter time length, higher intensity stuff?
那么，在较短的时间长度、较高的强度的情况下，是否会发生一些独立的特殊因素呢？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
There's also magic that happens on the other end of that spectrum.
在这个范围的另一端也发生了魔法。
So it's very important that people don't just choose one side, because what tends to happen is people either go with the, "Oh, I'm going to do 30 or 45 minutes of steady state stuff.
因此，人们不要只选择一方，这一点非常重要，因为人们往往会选择“哦，我要做 30 或 45 分钟的稳态工作。
That's it," or, "I'm going to do the opposite, which I'm going to leave that stuff on the table, not do it, because I only want to do high intensity intervals because I can get it done in five minutes." So there's magic on both sides of the equation.
就是这样，”或者，“我要做相反的事情，我会把那些东西留在桌子上，而不是去做，因为我只想做高强度的间歇训练，因为我可以在五分钟内完成它。”所以等式两边都有魔力。
We want to get into all that.
我们想深入了解这一切。
But just to answer your question directly, there's a whole bunch of things you can do in under one minute that are convenient to do, and there's a wonderful set of papers out of a couple laboratories in Canada that champion this idea that's called exercise snacks.
但直接回答你的问题，你可以在一分钟内做很多很方便的事情，而且加拿大的几个实验室发表了一系列精彩的论文，支持这个被称为运动零食的想法。
So there's a series of studies that have been done here that are really interesting, and they've looked at a couple of things that are noteworthy.
这里进行了一系列非常有趣的研究，他们研究了一些值得注意的事情。
One of them is a 20-second bout of all-out work, and this is actually done in workers in an office.
其中一项是 20 秒的全力以赴的工作，这实际上是由办公室的员工完成的。
And so what they had them do is run upstairs, and I believe it was about 60 steps, is what it took them.
所以他们让他们跑上楼，我相信他们跑了大约 60 步。
Something along the order of 20 seconds exactly.
正好是 20 秒左右。
And they repeated that about once every four hours.
他们大约每四个小时重复一次。
So really, you go to work, you put your coffee and your bag down, whatever, you run up a flight of stairs, 20 seconds later, then you go right back to work, at lunch, and before you go home, you sort of repeat it there.
所以说真的，你去上班，放下咖啡和包，不管怎样，你跑上一段楼梯，20秒后，然后你就回去工作，吃午饭，在你回家之前，你又重复了一遍。
And if you repeat that, that's multiple times a week you're going to do that.
如果你重复这一点，那么你每周都会这样做很多次。
I think in one of the interventions, it was three times a week for six weeks.
我认为其中一项干预措施是每周三次，持续六周。
18 total times you did that.
您总共这样做了 18 次。
And what you'll see is a noticeable improvement, and this is statistically significant, improvements in cardiorespiratory fitness, specifically VO2 max, as well as a number of cognitive benefits, work productivity, et cetera, that can happen in as little as 20 seconds.
您将看到显着的改善，而且这是具有统计意义的显着改善，即心肺健康的改善，特别是最大摄氧量，以及许多认知益处、工作效率等，这可以在短短 20 秒内发生。
You don't have to go to the gym, you don't have to shower, you don't have to do anything like that.
你不必去健身房，你不必洗澡，你不必做类似的事情。
Just find the stairs.
只要找到楼梯就可以了。
Run up and down them a few times.
上下跑几次。
Now, you may have noticed, you actually sort of caught me yesterday.
现在，你可能已经注意到了，你昨天实际上抓住了我。
I did that right here.
我就在这里做的。
We had a little bit of a break.
我们休息了一会儿。
I was feeling an energy lull.
我感到能量平静。
I ran up the stairs three or four times, felt a lot better.
我跑上楼梯三四次，感觉好多了。
So that can actually also help.
所以这实际上也有帮助。
They ran another study where they looked at that following a giant high glycemic index meal.
他们进行了另一项研究，观察了一顿高血糖指数膳食后的情况。
And what they saw, and they took insulin measures and a whole bunch of other biological markers associated that you want to be paying attention to with the high glycemic index meal.
他们所看到的，他们采取了胰岛素测量和一大堆其他与高血糖指数膳食相关的生物标志物。
And they looked at those immediately, an hour, three hours, six hours as a post.
他们立即将一个小时、三个小时、六个小时视为一个帖子。
And it was very clear that same intervention was able to improve postprandial glucose control, insulin, and a whole bunch of other factors in addition to that.
很明显，同样的干预措施能够改善餐后血糖控制、胰岛素以及除此之外的一大堆其他因素。
So if you are the sort of type who's like, "Wow, I'm in an office all day," maybe also had a giant high glycemic index meal.
因此，如果你是那种会说“哇，我一整天都在办公室”的人，也许你也吃了一顿高血糖指数的饭。
Not the best approach, but a little bit of mitigation there can just be running up a flight of stairs or doing something like that for as little as 20 seconds.
这不是最好的方法，但可以采取一点缓解措施，就是跑上一段楼梯或做类似的事情，时间只要 20 秒。
So there's a lot of magic and power in maximal exertion.
因此，最大程度的发挥会产生很多魔力和力量。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
If one does not have access to a flight of stairs at work, could they do jumping jacks?
如果工作时无法爬楼梯，他们可以做开合跳吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
You could do anything you really wanted.
你可以做任何你真正想做的事。
It's not the mode of exercise that matters here.
这里重要的不是锻炼方式。
It is simply the exertion.
这只是努力。
You just get up as hard as you can.
你只要尽力站起来就可以了。
You could do burpees.
你可以做波比跳。
You could do any number of things.
你可以做很多事情。
You could sprint down your road, down the hallway, back and forth.
你可以沿着道路、走廊、来回冲刺。
The mode is just something that was easy for the scientists to control.
这种模式对于科学家来说很容易控制。
And X number of steps, people could do it.
X步，人们可以做到。
You're not going to fall, hurt yourself, things like that.
你不会摔倒，受伤，诸如此类的事情。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Just to remind me, it's once every four hours, one minute of all out-
只是提醒我一下，每四个小时一次，全力以赴一分钟-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
20 seconds.
20秒。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Oh, 20 seconds.
哦，20秒。
Excuse me.
打扰一下。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
20 seconds of essentially all-out exertion-
20秒基本上全力以赴-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
while remaining safe.
同时保持安全。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Not going so fast up the stairs or doing jumping jacks so fast.
上楼梯的速度不要太快，开合跳的速度不要太快。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And certainly not down the stairs.
当然不是下楼梯。
Up the stairs, please.
请上楼梯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Right.
对。
Escalators don't count.
自动扶梯不算。
Well, I suppose they count if they're-
好吧，我想如果他们是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Going up them
上去他们
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
if you're moving, if you're not remaining on the same steps.
如果你在移动，如果你没有保持在相同的步骤上。
In fact, in an airport recently, I saw somebody walking against the-
事实上，最近在机场，我看到有人逆着-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, there you go
哦，你走了
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
the conveyor-
传送带-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
while talking on the phone while waiting for their flight to take off.
在等待航班起飞时打电话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Love it.
喜欢它。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And I thought it's genius, right?
我认为这是天才，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Love it.
喜欢它。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
It looked a little awkward.
看起来有点尴尬。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Who cares?
谁在乎？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
But it was very cool.
但这非常酷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have looked awkward in every airport I've been in for the last 15 years for these exact reasons, doing wild stuff like that.
过去 15 年里，由于这些确切的原因，我在我去过的每个机场都显得很尴尬，做着这样疯狂的事情。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, nothing's more awkward than not being able to walk to the end of the terminal simply because one isn't familiar with walking that far carrying a couple of suitcases.
好吧，没有什么比仅仅因为一个人不熟悉提着几个行李箱走那么远而无法走到航站楼尽头更尴尬的了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There you go.
就这样吧。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
That's the other fit test.
这是另一个适合性测试。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
100%.
100%。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
The suitcase carry-
行李箱携带——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
in the airport.
在机场。
No, I love this.
不，我喜欢这个。
So once every four hours, 20 seconds, so maybe once when arriving to work, once four hours in, and then four hours, and most people are probably at work somewhere eight-
所以每四个小时一次，20秒一次，所以也许在上班时一次，四小时一次，然后四个小时，大多数人可能在八点的地方工作-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
plus or minus two hours.
正负两个小时。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, one thing I actually really want to make clear, because your audience is so incredible, they tend to be really excited about these protocols, and they follow them exactly as written.
现在，我真的很想澄清一件事，因为你的观众是如此令人难以置信，他们往往对这些协议感到非常兴奋，并且他们完全按照书面规定执行。
That's not exactly how science works.
科学并不完全是这样运作的。
So it doesn't necessarily have to be every four hours.
所以不一定非要每四个小时一次。
It doesn't have to be three times a day.
不一定要一天三次。
It doesn't have to be 20 seconds.
不必是 20 秒。
They literally built that protocol because it was they're trying to replicate a real-life scenario.
他们确实构建了该协议，因为他们试图复制现实生活中的场景。
Maybe you're in an office building, you're generally there for eight hours.
也许你在办公楼里，你通常会在那里呆八个小时。
Let's see if you did one every sort of at the-- So if you want to do it four times a week, great.
让我们看看你是否每一种都做了——所以如果你想每周做四次，那就太好了。
If you can do it only 10 seconds, amazing.
如果你能在 10 秒内完成，那就太棒了。
You're probably going to get the same benefits.
您可能会获得同样的好处。
Those are not the details to pay attention to.
这些都不是需要注意的细节。
The detail to pay attention to is every so often, multiple times a day, try to get your heart rate up really quickly.
需要注意的细节是每隔一段时间，一天多次，尝试让你的心率真正快速上升。
Doesn't require sweating, doesn't require anything else.
不需要出汗，不需要其他任何东西。
There's no warm-up associated with it.
没有与之相关的热身。
Again, you need a minute break in between meetings or whatever, and you can sprint up them.
同样，你需要在会议或其他会议之间休息一分钟，然后你可以冲刺它们。
I do this all the time in my house.
我在家里经常这样做。
When you have those days when you're on seven straight hours of Zooms, et cetera, you can get out of 20 seconds.
当您连续 7 小时使用 Zoom 等时，您可以摆脱 20 秒的时间。
I run to my garage, which is over there, I hop on the air bike, and I will just smash out 30 seconds as fast as I can and then walk right back in.
我跑到我的车库，就在那里，我跳上空中自行车，我会以最快的速度冲出 30 秒，然后径直走回去。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Love it.
喜欢它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I'm going to start.
我要开始了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Just also, you can just put one of those things, which I do also, just put one in your office and hop over out of there.
另外，你可以只放其中一件东西，我也这样做，只需在你的办公室放一件东西，然后跳出那里。
The whole entire thing now literally takes 23 seconds.
现在整个过程实际上只需要 23 秒。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is also separate from Dr. Andy Galpin's teaching and research roles at Cal State Fullerton.
它也与安迪·加尔平博士在加州州立大学富勒顿分校的教学和研究职位分开。
It is, however, part of our desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我们希望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, we'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我们要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
Our first sponsor is Momentous.
我们的第一个赞助商是 Momentous。
Momentous makes supplements of the absolute highest quality.
Momentous 生产绝对最高品质的补充剂。
"The Huberman Lab" podcast is proud to be partnering with Momentous for several important reasons.
“The Huberman Lab”播客很荣幸能够与 Momentous 合作，原因有几个。
First of all, as I mentioned, their supplements are of extremely high quality.
首先，正如我提到的，他们的补充剂质量非常高。
Second of all, their supplements are generally in single-ingredient formulations.
其次，他们的补充剂通常采用单一成分配方。
If you're going to develop a supplementation protocol, you're going to want to focus mainly on using single-ingredient formulations.
如果您要制定补充方案，您将主要关注使用单一成分配方。
With single-ingredient formulations, you can devise the most logical and effective and cost-effective supplementation regimen for your goals.
通过单一成分配方，您可以为您的目标设计出最合理、最有效且最具成本效益的补充方案。
In addition, Momentous supplements ship internationally, and this is, of course, important because we realize that many of "The Huberman Lab" podcast listeners reside outside the United States.
此外，Momentous 补充品在全球范围内发货，这当然很重要，因为我们意识到许多“The Huberman Lab”播客听众居住在美国境外。
If you'd like to try the various supplements mentioned on "The Huberman Lab" podcast, in particular supplements for hormone health, for sleep optimization, for focus, as well as a number of other things, including exercise recovery, you can go to livemomentous, spelled O-U-S, so that's livemomentous.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试“The Huberman Lab”播客中提到的各种补充剂，特别是激素健康补充剂、睡眠优化补充剂、集中注意力补充剂以及运动恢复补充剂，您可以访问 livemomentous，拼写为 O-U-S，即 livemomentous.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Levels.
今天的节目也是Levels给我们带来的。
Levels is a program that lets you see how different foods and activities affect your health by giving you real-time feedback on your blood glucose using a continuous glucose monitor.
Levels 是一个程序，通过使用连续血糖监测仪为您提供有关血糖的实时反馈，让您了解不同的食物和活动如何影响您的健康。
Many people are aware that their blood sugar, that is their blood glucose level, is critical for everything from fat loss to muscle gain to healthy cognition and indeed aging of the brain and body.
许多人都意识到，他们的血糖，即血糖水平，对于从减脂到增肌、健康认知乃至大脑和身体衰老等各个方面都至关重要。
Most people do not know, however, how different foods and different activities, including exercise or different temperatured environments, impact their blood glucose levels, and yet blood glucose is exquisitely sensitive to all of those things.
然而，大多数人不知道不同的食物和不同的活动（包括运动或不同的温度环境）如何影响他们的血糖水平，但血糖对所有这些因素都非常敏感。
I first started using Levels about a year ago as a way to understand how different foods, exercise, and timing of food relative to exercise and quality of sleep at night impact my blood glucose levels, and I've learned a tremendous amount from using Levels.
大约一年前，我第一次开始使用“水平”，以了解不同的食物、运动以及相对于运动的食物时间和夜间睡眠质量如何影响我的血糖水平，并且我从使用“水平”中学到了很多东西。
It's taught me when best to eat, what best to eat, when best to exercise, how best to exercise, and how to modulate my entire schedule from work to exercise and even my sleep.
它教会了我什么时候吃最好，吃什么最好，什么时候锻炼最好，如何锻炼最好，以及如何调整我从工作到锻炼甚至睡眠的整个时间表。
So if you're interested in learning more about Levels and trying a continuous glucose monitor yourself, go to levels.link/huberman.
因此，如果您有兴趣了解有关 Levels 的更多信息并亲自尝试连续血糖监测仪，请访问levels.link/huberman。
That's levels.link/huberman.
这是levels.link/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by LMNT.
今天的节目也是LMNT给我们带来的。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that contains the exact ratios of the electrolytes sodium, magnesium, and potassium to optimize cellular functioning for mental and physical performance.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，含有精确比例的电解质钠、镁和钾，可优化细胞功能，从而提高精神和身体表现。
Most people realize that hydration is key.
大多数人都意识到水分是关键。
We need to ingest enough fluids in order to feel our best and perform our best.
我们需要摄入足够的液体才能感觉最好并表现最好。
But what most people do not realize is that the proper functioning of our cells and nerve cells, neurons in particular, requires that sodium, magnesium, and potassium be present in the correct ratios.
但大多数人没有意识到，我们的细胞和神经细胞（特别是神经元）的正常运作需要钠、镁和钾以正确的比例存在。
Now, of course, people with pre-hypertension and hypertension need to be careful about their sodium intake.
当然，现在高血压前期和高血压患者需要注意钠的摄入量。
But what a lot of people don't realize is that if you drink caffeine, if you exercise, and in particular if you're following a very clean diet, that is not a lot of processed foods, which of course is a good thing, chances are you're not getting enough sodium, potassium, and magnesium to optimize mental and physical performance.
但很多人没有意识到，如果你喝咖啡因，如果你锻炼，特别是如果你遵循非常清洁的饮食，这并不是很多加工食品，这当然是一件好事，但你很可能没有摄入足够的钠、钾和镁来优化精神和身体表现。
LMNT contains a science-backed ratio of 1,000 milligrams, that's one gram of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, and 60 milligrams of magnesium and no sugar.
LMNT 的含量经科学证实为 1,000 毫克，即 1 克钠、200 毫克钾和 60 毫克镁，不含糖。
If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt, that's L-M-N-T,.com/huberman to get a free LMNT sample pack with your purchase.
如果您想尝试 LMNT，您可以访问 Drinklmnt，即 L-M-N-T,.com/huberman，在购买时获得免费的 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt, L-M-N-T, .com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请通过 Drinklmnt、L-M-N-T、.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。
So tell me about endurance.
那么请告诉我关于耐力的事情。
What is endurance?
什么是耐力？
How do I get more endurance, and how does it work?
我如何获得更多的耐力，它是如何发挥作用的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When we think about endurance, I would like to open up the conversation to include more things than people generally do when they hear the word endurance.
当我们想到耐力时，我想展开对话，包括比人们通常听到耐力这个词时所做的更多的事情。
So if we just think about what you typically ask your body to do, or would like to ask your body to do, and we just walk through them, it's going to be things like this.
因此，如果我们只考虑您通常要求您的身体做什么，或者想要要求您的身体做什么，然后我们只是浏览它们，那么就会是这样的事情。
Number one: I want to have energy throughout the day.
第一：我想要一整天都精力充沛。
That's actually a form of endurance.
这实际上是一种耐力。
Great.
伟大的。
I don't want to have these lulls and fatigue, and I want to feel fantastic as I move throughout my activities of daily living, whatever those may be.
我不想有这些间歇和疲劳，我希望在日常生活活动中感觉棒极了，无论这些活动是什么。
Work, exercise, enjoyment, paying attention, focus, all that stuff.
工作、锻炼、享受、集中注意力，所有这些。
Great.
伟大的。
That's one thing.
这是一回事。
Another thing you want to ask your body to do is, I want to be able to repeat some small effort in a muscle group and feel great about that.
你想要要求你的身体做的另一件事是，我希望能够在肌肉群上重复一些小的努力，并对此感觉良好。
This is what we generally call muscular endurance.
这就是我们一般所说的肌肉耐力。
So this is something like, I want to be able to walk up those 10 flights of steps and my quads aren't burning at the end of it.
所以这就像，我希望能够走上那 10 层台阶，并且我的股四头肌在最后不会燃烧。
Or it even gives me energy.
或者它甚至给我能量。
Another thing you'll want to ask your body to do is to be able to perform a tremendous amount of work for a longer period of time, something in the realm of 20 to 80 seconds.
您需要要求您的身体做的另一件事是能够在较长时间内（大约 20 到 80 秒）执行大量工作。
So this could be something like if you're surfing and you've got to paddle extremely hard for a minute to get on top of a wave, or you're out riding your bike and you need to be able to get up a hill and it's a very steep hill.
所以这可能是这样的，如果你在冲浪，你必须非常努力地划一分钟才能到达波浪的顶部，或者你在外面骑自行车，你需要能够爬上一座小山，那是一座非常陡峭的山。
These are going to take maximal effort for some small amount of time, and then you'll get back up there.
这些需要在一小段时间内付出最大的努力，然后你就会回到那里。
We tend to call that maximum anaerobic capacity.
我们倾向于称之为最大无氧能力。
So the max amount of work you can perform at a high rate for some amount of seconds to maybe a minute.
因此，您可以在几秒到一分钟内高速执行的最大工作量。
Past that is your ability to repeat an effort kind of like that for something like five to 15 minutes.
除此之外，你还有能力重复类似的努力 5 到 15 分钟。
And the example would be run a mile.
这个例子就是跑一英里。
Some interval like that, which is a longer distance.
像这样的一些间隔，这是一个更长的距离。
That is going to be your maximum aerobic capacity.
这将是您的最大有氧能力。
Another thing you're going to want your body to do is what we call sustained position.
您希望身体做的另一件事是我们所说的持续姿势。
So this is, you want to be able to sit in your chair at work and have perfect posture for 20, 30, 40 minutes.
也就是说，您希望能够在工作时坐在椅子上并保持完美的姿势 20、30、40 分钟。
You want to be able to stand in line at a grocery store for 15 minutes and not have a breakdown in posture.
您希望能够在杂货店排队 15 分钟并且姿势不崩溃。
So you want to be able to maintain position when you're riding your bike.
因此，您希望在骑自行车时能够保持姿势。
You're not collapsing.
你没有崩溃。
You're doing any of these activities, and you don't get hurt or lose efficiency simply because you couldn't sustain basic positions.
当你从事任何这些活动时，你不会仅仅因为无法维持基本姿势而受伤或失去效率。
Whatever those shapes and positions need to be.
无论这些形状和位置需要是什么。
And then the last one is a maximum distance.
最后一项是最大距离。
So you want to be able to go for a longer hike or have just a long day at Disneyland for whatever it needs to be and feel great at the end of it.
因此，您希望能够进行更长的徒步旅行，或者在迪士尼乐园度过漫长的一天，无论需要做什么，并在结束时感觉良好。
So the goal with all of these things is not can you just do them, but can you do them and then you feel good afterwards.
所以所有这些事情的目标不是你能不能做它们，而是你能做完它们然后你感觉良好吗？
So we're back in a right position where they give you energy, you feel good about it, and it's not just something you had to do and you regretted, and you felt awful.
所以我们回到了正确的位置，他们给你能量，你对此感觉良好，而这不仅仅是你必须做的事情，你后悔，你感觉很糟糕。
So those are the factors I think about when someone says, "I want better endurance," is I want to walk backwards and say, "Okay, when you say endurance, what do you mean?" And that's generally the things I've come across is if you can handle all of those things, you're going to feel like you're in fantastic shape.
因此，当有人说“我想要更好的耐力”时，我会考虑这些因素，我是否想倒退并说：“好吧，当你说耐力时，你的意思是什么？”我遇到的一般情况是，如果你能处理所有这些事情，你就会感觉自己的状态非常好。
You're going to feel your recovery's going to be excellent and your physical performance in the gym or in any of the sporting activities you do will be enhanced.
您会感觉自己恢复得非常好，并且您在健身房或任何体育活动中的身体表现都会得到增强。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Given what you told us a little bit earlier, that endurance really reflects fatigue management and energy production, how do each and both of those things relate to endurance at a mechanistic level?
鉴于您之前告诉我们的，耐力确实反映了疲劳管理和能量产生，那么这两件事在机械层面上与耐力有何关系？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I mean, really what I'm asking is what is fatigue management and what is energy production?
我的意思是，我真正要问的是什么是疲劳管理以及什么是能量产生？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In order to do that, it's important that we understand all of those functional capacities that I just talked about.
为了做到这一点，我们必须了解我刚才谈到的所有功能。
They all have different points of failure.
它们都有不同的故障点。
So in order to then work backwards and say, "Well, how do I optimize my performance in all those categories?" We need to go through each one and figure out, well, where am I failing?
因此，为了然后向后工作并说，“那么，我如何优化我在所有这些类别中的表现？”我们需要仔细检查每一项并找出我哪里失败了？
Some of them are going to be failing because of fatigue management, and some of them will be failing because of energy production issues.
其中一些会因为疲劳管理而失败，有些会因为能源生产问题而失败。
So if we walk through a little bit of how we make energy and how we handle fatigue, then we're going to have a better understanding of exactly what to do for each one of these categories if you feel like one of them in particular is worse for you or lagging behind, or if in general, you just want to improve all of them.
因此，如果我们稍微了解一下我们如何产生能量以及如何处理疲劳，那么如果您觉得其中一个类别对您来说特别糟糕或落后，或者如果总的来说，您只是想提高所有类别，那么我们将更好地了解针对每个类别应该做什么。
All right.
好的。
Now, I want to make a little bit of a 90-degree turn here.
现在，我想在这里来个90度的大转弯。
I'm going to do it with strategy, though, I promise.
不过，我保证，我会用策略来做到这一点。
And I want to ask you a very simple question.
我想问你一个非常简单的问题。
How do you lose weight?
你如何减肥？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I was taught that the calories in, calories out thermodynamics of energy utilization governs most everything.
我被告知，能量利用的热量输入、热量输出热力学支配着几乎一切。
That is, if I'm ingesting less caloric energy than I burn, then I'm going to lose weight.
也就是说，如果我摄入的热量少于燃烧的热量，那么我就会减肥。
And if I'm ingesting exactly as much as I burn, I'll maintain weight.
如果我摄入的量与燃烧的量一样多，我就能保持体重。
And if I ingest more than I burn, then I'll gain weight.
如果我摄入的量多于燃烧的量，那么我的体重就会增加。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
That is the approach you would take.
这就是您将采取的方法。
What I'm asking really is how are you actually physically losing the weight?
我真正想问的是你实际上是如何减肥的？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So my understanding is that we have different fuel sources in the body, glycogen, which is stored in muscle and liver; body fat, which is stored in mainly white adipose tissue, which is subcutaneous and around our organs, intra-visceral fat; and that we can also use protein as a fuel.
所以我的理解是，我们体内有不同的燃料来源，糖原，储存在肌肉和肝脏中；糖原，储存在肌肉和肝脏中。身体脂肪，主要储存在皮下和器官周围的白色脂肪组织中，即内脏脂肪；我们还可以使用蛋白质作为燃料。
And then, as I recall, there's also a phosphocreatine system.
然后，据我记得，还有一个磷酸肌酸系统。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And I think you're going to tell me that each of these systems is tapped into on different timescales and perhaps according to different levels of exertion.
我想你会告诉我，这些系统中的每一个都在不同的时间尺度上被利用，也许根据不同的运动水平。
And I'm certain that what I just said is not exhaustive, but hopefully it is most or entirely correct.
我确信我刚才所说的并不详尽，但希望它是大部分或完全正确的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Pretty correct.
非常正确。
What's that got to do with fat loss?
这和减脂有什么关系？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
At some point, body fat stores, adipocytes, fat cells, are going to start liberating fat as a fuel source.
在某个时刻，身体脂肪储存、脂肪细胞、脂肪细胞将开始释放脂肪作为燃料来源。
And the stimulus for that, I'm assuming, is going to be that other fuel sources are either depleted or that the energy and metabolic systems of the body, I don't want to say decide, because they don't have their own consciousness-
我假设，对此的刺激将是其他燃料来源耗尽，或者是身体的能量和代谢系统，我不想说决定，因为它们没有自己的意识-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure
当然可以
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
but are flip-
但都是翻转的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Signaling
信令
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
are signaling in a way that registers that Body fat would be the optimal fuel source given how long and/or intensely a given activity has been performed.
以某种方式发出信号，表明考虑到进行给定活动的时间和/或强度，身体脂肪将是最佳燃料来源。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
We have some stuff to clean up there, but we're still not really answering the question.
我们有一些东西需要清理，但我们仍然没有真正回答这个问题。
How am I actually losing that body fat?
我实际上是如何减掉体内脂肪的？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
How is it actually leaving the body?
它实际上是如何离开身体的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct.
正确。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
My understanding is that it leaves the body through respiration.
我的理解是它通过呼吸离开身体。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Aha.
啊哈。
So now we have some interesting things to talk about.
现在我们有一些有趣的事情要谈。
How am I actually losing fat via respiration?
我实际上是如何通过呼吸减脂的？
What the hell does that even mean?
这到底是什么意思？
How is something that occupied this physical space on the side of me leaving my body through my mouth?
占据我身体一侧物理空间的东西是如何通过我的嘴离开我的身体的？
And there is a very clear answer there, which I'm sure you're cued up to.
这里有一个非常明确的答案，我相信你已经明白了。
When you take a breath in, you're generally breathing in oxygen, O2.
当您吸气时，您通常吸入的是氧气（O2）。
There's some other things, but we'll just stick to oxygen.
还有其他一些东西，但我们只会坚持使用氧气。
When you exhale, you're breathing out CO2.
当你呼气时，你呼出二氧化碳。
The difference between those two is that carbon molecule.
两者之间的区别在于碳分子。
Well, one of the things that's important to understand here is all of your carbohydrates, that word itself is a carbon that has been hydrated.
嗯，这里需要理解的重要一件事是所有的碳水化合物，这个词本身就是一种已经水合的碳。
So it is a carbon molecule attached to a water molecule.
所以它是一个附着在水分子上的碳分子。
It is a simple chain of carbons.
它是一个简单的碳链。
Your fat molecules are also chains of carbon.
你的脂肪分子也是碳链。
All of metabolism really, in terms of energy production, is simply trying to figure out a way to break those carbon bonds.
就能量产生而言，所有新陈代谢实际上只是试图找到一种打破这些碳键的方法。
As a result, we get energy from that.
结果，我们从中获得能量。
We use that energy to create a molecule called ATP, which is the central source of energy for any living being.
我们利用这种能量来产生一种名为 ATP 的分子，它是任何生物体的核心能量来源。
That carbon is then floating around in a free form, which is bad news internally.
然后，这些碳就会以自由形式漂浮在周围，这对内部来说是个坏消息。
So we've got to figure out a way to get that carbon out of our system.
所以我们必须找到一种方法将碳从我们的系统中去除。
So all of energy production, all of fatigue management, really comes down to this core issue of how are we handling carbon, and how are we moving it around the body?
因此，所有的能量产生、所有的疲劳管理，实际上都归结为这个核心问题：我们如何处理碳，以及我们如何在身体中移动它？
And so what we do is we do this sneaky thing.
所以我们所做的就是做这件偷偷摸摸的事情。
So another question I like to ask people is, why do we breathe?
所以我想问人们的另一个问题是，我们为什么呼吸？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Well, for two reasons.
嗯，有两个原因。
To bring oxygen into the system and to offload carbon dioxide, but the neural trigger for breathing is when carbon dioxide hits a threshold level and the set of neurons in the brain stem-
将氧气带入系统并排出二氧化碳，但呼吸的神经触发因素是当二氧化碳达到阈值水平时，脑干中的神经元组-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
and elsewhere activate the phrenic nerve or the gasp reflex or a combination of things, and we inhale or inhale.
在其他地方激活膈神经或喘息反射或两者的组合，然后我们吸气或吸气。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
So a reduction of oxygen intake generally doesn't stimulate ventilation unless you're at altitude, then that sort of changes.
因此，减少氧气摄入量通常不会刺激通风，除非您处于高海拔地区，然后这种情况就会发生变化。
In general, it's an elevation in CO2 that's going to stimulate breathing out.
一般来说，二氧化碳浓度升高会刺激呼气。
The only reason you bring in O2, for the most part, is to get rid of the CO2.
大多数情况下，引入氧气的唯一原因是为了去除二氧化碳。
Oxygen is not a fuel source.
氧气不是燃料源。
It works the same with fire, by the way.
顺便说一下，它对火的作用是一样的。
So you know you have to have oxygen present for a fire to go, and if you squelch oxygen, the fire will go out.
所以你知道必须有氧气才能让火熄灭，如果你抑制氧气，火就会熄灭。
That's sort of half of how those fire extinguishers work.
这就是灭火器一半的工作原理。
But we think then that means oxygen is the fuel.
但我们认为这意味着氧气是燃料。
It is not the fuel.
它不是燃料。
It is something entirely different.
这是完全不同的东西。
It is a product that is necessary for the metabolism process to actually occur.
它是新陈代谢过程实际发生所必需的产物。
All right.
好的。
So we're kind of dancing around an idea here, which is this carbon cycle of life.
所以我们在这里围绕着一个想法跳舞，这就是生命的碳循环。
So what happens in plants is they generally will breathe in the opposite and breathe out the opposite of humans.
因此，植物中发生的情况是，它们通常会吸入与人类相反的气体，呼出与人类相反的气体。
So a plant will breathe in CO2 and exhale O2.
因此，植物会吸入二氧化碳并呼出氧气。
This is why we have to have a certain amount of these things in algae and forests and trees and stuff to maintain this O2-CO2 balance in our atmosphere.
这就是为什么我们必须在藻类、森林、树木等中含有一定量的这些物质，以维持大气中的氧气-二氧化碳平衡。
We do the opposite, and so we have this wonderful circle of life.
我们反其道而行之，所以我们就有了这个美妙的生命循环。
We breathe in O2, breathe out CO2.
我们吸入氧气，呼出二氧化碳。
They do the opposite.
他们却做相反的事。
Well, what happens is, because carbohydrates are long chains of carbon, and fats are as well.
嗯，发生的事情是，因为碳水化合物是长碳链，脂肪也是。
Generally, when we think about fats, by the way, it's important to understand that structure a little bit.
顺便说一下，一般来说，当我们想到脂肪时，了解一下这种结构很重要。
So if we think about triglycerides, it is a three-carbon backbone chain of glycerol, so it's one, two, three, and horizontally running off of each one of those are fatty acid chains.
因此，如果我们考虑甘油三酯，它是甘油的三碳主链，因此它是一个、两个、三个，并且每一个都是脂肪酸链水平延伸。
And so we form this structure that looks like an E.
所以我们形成了这个看起来像E的结构。
Like the letter E, three in the back, and then three chains coming off of it.
就像字母E一样，三个在后面，然后三个链子从它上面掉下来。
Each of those chains are called fatty acids, and each of those fatty acids are a length of carbon.
每条链都称为脂肪酸，每条脂肪酸都是一段碳。
Or a number of carbons strung together.
或者多个碳串在一起。
However many carbons are there determines which type of fatty acid it is.
然而，碳的数量决定了它是哪种类型的脂肪酸。
So stearic acid, linoleic acid, like any different number of things.
硬脂酸、亚油酸等任何不同数量的物质。
It's also what determines whether or not it is a monounsaturated or polyunsaturated, is if carbon requires a special thing called a double bond.
这也决定了它是单不饱和还是多不饱和，碳是否需要一种称为双键的特殊物质。
So if there's a double bond across every carbon to carbon, then they're all fully saturated, and you're great.
因此，如果每个碳与碳之间都有一个双键，那么它们就完全饱和了，那就太好了。
If there's any of them that are not double bonded, in fact, an example, if there is one that doesn't have a double bond, that is now called monounsaturated.
事实上，如果它们中的任何一个不是双键，例如，如果有一个没有双键，那么现在称为单不饱和。
And if there are many, it is called polyunsaturated.
如果数量很多，则称为多不饱和。
So there's pros and cons to all of these things.
所以所有这些事情都有优点和缺点。
In either case, we're still talking long carbon chains.
无论哪种情况，我们仍然在谈论长碳链。
So what a plant will do is bring in carbon, and then it has this wonderful ability to use energy from the sun called photosynthesis, and it can take those carbons that it inhales and use the energy from the sun to form a bond.
因此，植物要做的就是引入碳，然后它具有利用太阳能量（称为光合作用）的奇妙能力，它可以吸收它吸入的碳并利用来自太阳的能量形成化学键。
Now, in our prior discussion, when we were going over hypertrophy, we talked about the energy that was required to go through protein synthesis.
现在，在我们之前的讨论中，当我们讨论肥大时，我们讨论了蛋白质合成所需的能量。
That's because forming a new atom, or a new bond between atoms, oftentimes takes energy.
这是因为形成一个新原子或原子之间的新键通常需要能量。
In these cases, it does.
在这些情况下，确实如此。
The same thing happens here.
同样的事情也发生在这里。
So if a plant does not have oxygen or does not have carbon dioxide in the air, it has no fuel.
因此，如果植物没有氧气或空气中没有二氧化碳，它就没有燃料。
Basically, think about it as that's what it eats.
基本上，想想它就是它吃的东西。
It needs to get nitrogen from the ground and the soil, just like we need to get nitrogen from our protein.
它需要从地面和土壤中获取氮，就像我们需要从蛋白质中获取氮一样。
But fuel-wise, it needs to get carbon dioxide.
但就燃料而言，它需要获取二氧化碳。
Then it needs sun to give it energy so that it can actually form that bond.
然后它需要阳光给它能量，这样它才能真正形成这种键。
That's what it's getting its fuel from.
这就是它获取燃料的来源。
So if we think about a classic plant that produces either a starch or a fruit, here's what happens.
因此，如果我们考虑一种产生淀粉或水果的经典植物，就会发生以下情况。
It inhales that carbon, and then it starts packing it away.
它吸入碳，然后开始将其收集起来。
Now, in a root vegetable, what it does is it stores those things together.
现在，在根类蔬菜中，它的作用是将这些东西储存在一起。
And if we store that thing and we grow a fruit at the bottom of it, we tend to call those things starches.
如果我们储存这种东西并在其底部长出果实，我们倾向于将这些东西称为淀粉。
It's going to then take the carbon that is packed away in its root and send it up the tree And it's going to actually do that by breaking it down into a smaller form of carbohydrate that we tend to often call things like sucrose and glucose.
然后它会吸收根部储存的碳并将其发送到树上，实际上它会通过将其分解成更小的碳水化合物形式（我们通常称之为蔗糖和葡萄糖）来实现这一点。
It'll ship that up the tree, it'll go out to the leaves, and it'll convert it into the fruit, and it's going to eventually transform that stuff into smaller carbon things called fructose.
它将把它运送到树上，它会到达叶子，并将其转化为果实，最终将这些物质转化为更小的碳物质，称为果糖。
And if we think about the fruit or the sugar in fruit, it's often in the form of fructose or sucrose or a combination, and sometimes glucose.
如果我们考虑水果或水果中的糖，它通常以果糖或蔗糖或其组合的形式存在，有时也以葡萄糖的形式存在。
So we have these smaller carbon, six carbon chains, generally in the form of glucose, that are being made from this larger storage of carbohydrates that we call starch.
因此，我们有这些较小的碳，六个碳链，通常以葡萄糖的形式存在，它们是由我们称为淀粉的较大碳水化合物储存制成的。
So it's packed in together.
所以就打包在一起了
Your body does the exact same thing.
你的身体也会做同样的事情。
So if it's a potato and it has a whole bunch of glucose packed away, we call that starch.
因此，如果它是一个土豆，里面含有大量的葡萄糖，我们就称之为淀粉。
If it's in your quadricep and we pack about a whole bunch of glucose away, we now call it glycogen.
如果它在你的股四头肌中，并且我们储存了一大堆葡萄糖，我们现在将其称为糖原。
If it's in your blood as that six-carbon chain, we call it glucose.
如果它以六碳链的形式存在于您的血液中，我们将其称为葡萄糖。
If it's in the tree and in the fruit, we call it fructose.
如果它存在于树和水果中，我们称之为果糖。
Those are different molecules, but that's effectively the same thing happens.
这些是不同的分子，但实际上发生了同样的事情。
So the biology or the chemistry is almost identical.
所以生物学或化学几乎是相同的。
It just runs in the reverse order.
它只是以相反的顺序运行。
And that's why, again, tubers and potatoes and stuff tend to be starches and fruits tend to be glucose, fructose, and sucrose.
这就是为什么块茎、土豆之类的东西往往是淀粉，而水果往往是葡萄糖、果糖和蔗糖。
So we have this wonderful circle of life.
于是我们就有了这个美好的生活圈子。
The plants can survive on just breathing in the CO2 and then getting the energy from the sun.
植物只需呼吸二氧化碳，然后从太阳获取能量就可以生存。
We don't have that ability, at least to my knowledge, to run through photosynthesis.
至少据我所知，我们不具备进行光合作用的能力。
So the only way we can get carbon into our system is to actually ingest carbon, which means we have to eat the starch, the fruit, the animal, some other form of stored carbon to get that into our system.
因此，我们能让碳进入我们的系统的唯一方法就是实际摄入碳，这意味着我们必须吃淀粉、水果、动物和其他形式的储存碳才能将其进入我们的系统。
We then pack that away.
然后我们把它打包带走。
We put the carbohydrates, as you mentioned earlier, either in our liver, our blood, or in our muscles.
正如您之前提到的，我们将碳水化合物放入我们的肝脏、血液或肌肉中。
We put the fat generally in adipose tissue.
我们一般把脂肪放在脂肪组织中。
We'll put a little bit in muscle cells as intramuscular triglycerides, and then the protein we'll use as structure to do different things.
我们将在肌肉细胞中加入一点作为肌内甘油三酯，然后我们将使用蛋白质作为结构来完成不同的事情。
We don't like to use protein as material or fuel.
我们不喜欢使用蛋白质作为材料或燃料。
It's better used as structure.
最好用作结构。
And what we have to do then is if all of a sudden we realize that storage is getting too much in our body, in other words, we're gaining too much weight, we have to figure out how to get the carbons out of our body.
然后我们要做的是，如果我们突然意识到我们体内的储存量过多，换句话说，我们的体重增加了太多，我们必须弄清楚如何将碳排出体外。
And that is metabolism.
这就是新陈代谢。
Any time we're trying to break a carbon bonds that we can get energy to make ATP, that's going to release the carbon out of our tissue into the blood.
每当我们试图打破碳键以获得能量来制造 ATP 时，就会将组织中的碳释放到血液中。
We have to bring in oxygen to bind that carbon molecule to make CO2 so we can exhale it and put it back into the atmosphere.
我们必须引入氧气来结合碳分子以产生二氧化碳，这样我们就可以将其呼出并将其放回大气中。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
That's a beautiful description of the circle of life and energy utilization in the human body.
这是对人体生命循环和能量利用的美丽描述。
I have to ask the question that I'm sure many people are wondering about, which is if indeed we exhale these carbons and as it relates to fat loss, that is the way that we lose fat if we're in a subcaloric state, for instance.
我必须问一个问题，我相信很多人都想知道，如果我们确实呼出这些碳，并且它与减肥有关，例如，如果我们处于低热量状态，这就是我们减肥的方式。
Has it ever been explored as to whether increasing the duration or intensity of exhales can accelerate fat loss?
有没有研究过增加呼气的持续时间或强度是否可以加速脂肪减少？
That's the logical extension of what you described, and here I'm actually interested equally in whether or not the answer is yes, as well as whether it could be no. Because I could imagine if the answer is yes, well, then there's some interesting protocols to emerge from that.
这是你所描述内容的逻辑延伸，在这里我实际上对答案是否是肯定以及是否可能是否定同样感兴趣。因为我可以想象，如果答案是肯定的，那么就会出现一些有趣的协议。
But that if it's no, it will reveal to us some important bottlenecks about metabolism and energy utilization.
但如果不是，它将向我们揭示新陈代谢和能量利用的一些重要瓶颈。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You ever seen those magicians who show up a- and they can tell your mom's name or something like that before you because they can sort of-
你曾经见过那些魔术师出现——他们可以在你面前告诉你妈妈的名字或类似的东西，因为他们可以——
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Oh, I-
哦，我-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
lead you down a path?
带领你走上一条路？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Not to take us down a deep dive tangent, but I once went to the Magic Castle in Los Angeles, and I was one of the people called up front and an incredible magician named, I think his name was Ozzy Mind or something, I think that's right, had me write my name on a card in a Sharpie pen.
不是为了让我们陷入更深的切线，但我曾经去过洛杉矶的魔术城堡，我是被叫到前面的人之一，是一位令人难以置信的魔术师，我想他的名字是奥兹·明德（Ozzy Mind）或其他什么，我认为这是对的，让我用记号笔在一张卡片上写下我的名字。
I ripped up the card.
我把卡撕了。
I ripped it up.
我把它撕了。
I put it in my pocket.
我把它放进口袋里。
And at the end of the 10 or 15-minute bout of him doing a bunch of other tricks, he asked me to look in my right shoe and under my foot in my right shoe was that card intact.
在 10 或 15 分钟的比赛结束时，他做了一堆其他的技巧，他让我看看我的右鞋，在我右鞋的脚下，那张卡片完好无损。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And it was no longer in my pocket.
它不再在我的口袋里了。
And I swear on my life, I wasn't a collaborator with him.
我以我的生命发誓，我不是他的合作者。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And to this day, it still gives me chills because it, well, I don't know how.
直到今天，它仍然让我感到不寒而栗，因为我不知道如何做到这一点。
Magic.
魔法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Right.
正确的。
Magic.
魔法。
Well, the reason I say that is I've given that little spiel that I just gave you countless times in my classes.
嗯，我这么说的原因是我已经在课堂上给你们讲过无数次了。
And I would say 99% of the time, as soon as I stop, the very first question is, "So can I just do a bunch of exhales and lose fat?" Which is wonderful because I was really hoping you would do that, and you rolled right into my trap.
我想说，99%的情况下，一旦我停下来，第一个问题就是，“那么我可以做几次呼气来减掉脂肪吗？”这太棒了，因为我真的希望你能这么做，但你却掉进了我的陷阱。
You landed perfectly.
你完美着陆。
So I look like a magician over here.
所以我在这里看起来就像一个魔术师。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I feel like I should look in my right shoe right now.
我觉得我现在应该看看我的右鞋。
No, I ask the question because it's the logical extension of what you laid out, but I know biology to be both diabolical-
不，我问这个问题是因为这是你所提出的内容的逻辑延伸，但我知道生物学是恶魔般的-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
and cryptic, but also exquisite in the way that things are arranged, and you don't get something for nothing.
神秘，但事物的安排方式也很精致，而且你不会不劳而获。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are no free passes in physiology.
生理学中没有免费通行证。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's the saying.
就是这么一句话。
No free passes.
没有免费通行证。
The answer to your question is yes.
你的问题的答案是肯定的。
On 100% yes.
100% 是的。
In fact, that is the only way to go about it.
事实上，这是唯一的方法。
You have two options.
你有两个选择。
You can ingest less carbon, or you can expel more carbon.
您可以摄入更少的碳，也可以排出更多的碳。
People always say calories in, calories out.
人们总是说卡路里摄入，卡路里消耗。
It's really carbon in, carbon out.
确实是碳进，碳出。
That's what a calorie is.
这就是卡路里。
Calories is the amount of energy we get per breaking a carbon bond.
卡路里是我们每次打破碳键时获得的能量。
So it's really less in, more out.
所以实际上是少进多出。
Less in is fairly obvious whether that comes in any form.
无论以何种形式出现，“少”都是相当明显的。
And by the way, this is exactly why the percentage of your intake coming from fats or carbohydrate, et cetera, it doesn't really matter that much If you look at fat loss clinical trials, you guys may have covered this when Lane was in here, I'm sure.
顺便说一句，这正是为什么你的摄入量来自脂肪或碳水化合物等的百分比，这并不那么重要。如果你看看减脂临床试验，我确信当莱恩在这里时你们可能已经涵盖了这一点。
This is something he talks about a lot.
这是他经常谈论的事情。
It doesn't matter.
没关系。
It's irrelevant because it's not about that.
这无关紧要，因为这与此无关。
There's nothing magic in those things.
这些东西并没有什么魔力。
They are different and they have different physiological responses.
它们是不同的，并且有不同的生理反应。
Everything is different, right?
一切都不一样了，对吧？
No doubt.
无疑。
But in general, it's just simply about carbon intake.
但总的来说，这只是与碳摄入量有关。
Turns out fat has a lot more carbons per mole than carbohydrates do, so there's more calories per mole in there.
事实证明，每摩尔脂肪比碳水化合物含有更多的碳，因此每摩尔脂肪含有更多的卡路里。
So the physical amount of fat needs to come in as a smaller amount.
因此，脂肪的物理量需要减少。
Physical amount of carbohydrates will come in as a larger amount.
碳水化合物的物理量将会增加。
But you can play any number of very high carb, low fat.
但你可以玩任意数量的高碳水化合物、低脂肪的游戏。
What matters?
有什么重要的？
Total calories, right?
总卡路里，对吗？
Again, it's not like the only thing that matters, but do you know what I'm saying?
再说一次，这不是唯一重要的事情，但你知道我在说什么吗？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some percentages in the weight can go-- Fat loss works fantastic.
体重的某些百分比可以改变——减肥效果非常好。
High fat, low carbohydrate.
高脂肪、低碳水化合物。
Why do all these things work?
为什么所有这些都有效？
Because it's not about that.
因为这不是那个问题。
It's about total intake of carbon, total exfil.
这是关于碳的总摄入量和总排出量。
So absolutely can you lose fat by simply exhaling more.
因此，只要多呼气，绝对可以减肥。
In fact, that is exactly what you did this morning.
事实上，这正是你今天早上所做的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
When I hopped on the AirDyne bike for-
当我骑上 AirDyne 自行车-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When you did anything.
当你做了任何事的时候。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
The question is, can you think of a scenario in which you could have a bunch of increased rates of exhalation that helps in fat loss?
问题是，你能想象一种情况，在这种情况下，你可以增加呼气速率，从而有助于减肥吗？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Sure.
当然。
I can think of a lot of things that will stimulate increased rates of exhalation.
我能想到很多会刺激呼气速率增加的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One thing could be simply going .
一件事可能只是简单地进行。
And so the question is, can I literally do some breath protocols where I force exhale and lose fat?
所以问题是，我真的可以做一些呼吸方案，用力呼气并减掉脂肪吗？
And the answer is yes.
答案是肯定的。
But what happens?
但会发生什么呢？
What happens if you do hyperventilation training?
如果进行过度换气训练会发生什么？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Well, my lab studies cyclic hyperventilation as one of our many deliberate protocols.
嗯，我的实验室研究周期性过度换气，作为我们众多深思熟虑的协议之一。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And one of the most prominent things that one observes is that levels of adrenaline increase very quickly.
人们观察到的最突出的事情之一是肾上腺素水平迅速增加。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Extremely quickly.
极快。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
People feel jittery, anxious, stressed, and unless they are consciously trying to anchor their thinking about what that means and the benefits to persisting, typically, they abort the cyclic hyperventilation protocol really quickly.
人们会感到紧张、焦虑、压力大，除非他们有意识地尝试将自己的想法固定下来，思考这意味着什么以及坚持下去的好处，否则他们通常很快就会放弃周期性过度换气方案。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Within seconds, right?
几秒钟之内，对吧？
You will feel tingling, sweating, all kinds of things.
你会感到刺痛、出汗等等各种感觉。
You're hyperventilating, right?
你换气过度了，对吧？
And we could talk ad nauseam about how that changes everything from adrenaline to focus, to a whole bunch of things.
我们可以滔滔不绝地谈论这如何改变一切，从肾上腺素到注意力，再到一大堆事情。
So unfortunately, a strategy of sitting around just exhaling more than you inhale technically helps you lose more fat, but it's not going to last very long.
不幸的是，坐在那里呼气多于吸气的策略从技术上讲可以帮助你减掉更多的脂肪，但它不会持续很长时间。
So then the question is, well, how do I get into a situation or a scenario in which I can increase my rate of expiration, where I'm not going to pass out and I'm not going and altering hypocapnia and hypercapnia issues?
那么问题是，我如何进入一种情况或场景，在这种情况或场景中，我可以提高呼气率，我不会昏倒，也不会改变低碳酸血症和高碳酸血症问题？
Any idea of a situation in which you would have an enhanced rate of exhalation without worrying about passing out?
你知道在什么情况下你可以加快呼气速度而不用担心昏倒吗？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Sure.
当然。
Steady state exercise.
稳态运动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or not steady state exercise.
或者不是稳态运动。
Lifting weights, intervals, moderate training, repeated.
举重、间歇、适度训练、重复。
Any of these things.
任何这些事情。
They all work equally for fat loss because all they're doing is increasing respiration rate.
它们对于减脂的作用都是一样的，因为它们所做的只是增加呼吸频率。
They're saying increased demand for energy, increased exhalation.
他们说的是能量需求增加，呼气增加。
That's the trick here.
这就是这里的技巧。
And when you equate these things to that, they have equal success in fat loss.
当你将这些事情与此等同时，它们在减肥方面取得了同样的成功。
It doesn't matter theoretically where you're getting it from.
从理论上讲，从哪里获得它并不重要。
And so when we get into this idea of, well, what are the best training strategies for fat loss, it doesn't matter which one of these tactics you pick, as long as you maintain a consistent adherence over time because of this exact fact.
因此，当我们思考什么是最好的减脂训练策略时，选择哪一种策略并不重要，只要你随着时间的推移保持一致的坚持，因为这个确切的事实。
It doesn't matter if you're burning, quote-unquote, "fat" in the exercise session, or if you're burning carbohydrates in the exercise session.
无论您在锻炼过程中燃烧“脂肪”，还是在锻炼过程中燃烧碳水化合物，都没关系。
It is totally irrelevant to your net fat loss over time.
随着时间的推移，它与您的净脂肪损失完全无关。
Okay, now there's some significant misconceptions there about what I just talked, and I would love to come back and walk through that in more detail, but that's the main take-home message here.
好吧，现在对我刚才所说的内容存在一些重大误解，我很想回来更详细地讨论这一点，但这就是这里的主要信息。
It won't matter what's coming in and it won't matter what's coming out, because in either case, it is the same rate of oxygen in and CO2 out.
进入什么和排出什么并不重要，因为在任何一种情况下，氧气进入和二氧化碳排出的速率都是相同的。
That's the key metric.
这是关键指标。
And hopefully, this helps a lot of people have some relief because they're like, "Man, you're so tied up on what is the exact protocol for training for optimizing fat loss.
希望这可以帮助很多人松一口气，因为他们会说，“伙计，你太关注优化减脂训练的确切方案了。
What's the exact nutritional intervention I need for fat loss?" And then you wonder why all these different diets can work effectively and wonder why all these different training protocols-- I know surely you know somebody who lost a bunch of weight and the only thing they did is they just started running.
我需要什么具体的营养干预来减脂？”然后你想知道为什么所有这些不同的饮食都能有效地发挥作用，并想知道为什么所有这些不同的训练方案——我知道你肯定知道有人体重减轻了很多，他们所做的唯一一件事就是开始跑步。
There was no advanced protocol.
没有先进的协议。
They just started running, and they ran five miles every day.
他们刚刚开始跑步，每天跑五英里。
That works.
那行得通。
And then tons of people who tried that and didn't lose anything, and lots of people who went to, "I went to cardio kickboxing class, lost weight." Oh, I just started doing intervals on my...
然后很多人都尝试过，但没有减掉任何东西，还有很多人说，“我参加了有氧跆拳道课程，体重减轻了。”哦，我刚刚开始做间歇训练……
Why?
为什么？
Mysteriously do all these things work.
所有这些事情都神秘地起作用。
Some Spidey sense has to be going off in your brain where there has to be something linking these things, and what's linking it is simply carbon exchange.
你的大脑中一定会产生某种蜘蛛侠的感觉，那里一定有某种东西将这些东西联系起来，而将其联系起来的只是碳交换。
So put yourself in a position in which you are exhaling more than you are inhaling without passing out.
因此，让自己处于呼气多于吸气的位置，而不会昏倒。
The other problem is if you were to simply do a breathing protocol, while the rate of exhalation would go up, after that, you would correct and go in the opposite direction.
另一个问题是，如果你只是简单地进行呼吸方案，而呼气速率会上升，之后你会纠正并朝相反的方向前进。
So that's the problem is your net carbon output over the course of the day is not going to change unless you increase the demand for energy.
所以问题是，除非你增加对能源的需求，否则一天中的净碳排放量不会改变。
And that's how you get into that negative state.
这就是你进入消极状态的原因。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Along these lines of exhaling carbons as the route for fat loss, it makes me wonder whether or not increasing lung capacity is possible.
沿着呼气碳作为减肥途径的思路，这让我想知道是否有可能增加肺活量。
I'm guessing the answer is yes.
我猜答案是肯定的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And whether or not increasing lung capacity is a good goal en route to enhancing fat loss.
以及增加肺活量是否是促进减脂的良好目标。
Essentially, what I'm asking is if you can offload more CO2, aka carbons-
本质上，我问的是你是否可以卸载更多的二氧化碳，也就是碳——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure
当然可以
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
per exhale, are you a more efficient fat loss machine?
每次呼气，你是一台更高效的减脂机器吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a wonderful thought, and the answer would be no. Not something to worry about because If you were to exhale more carbon than actually needed, now we're in a state of inefficiency.
这是一个美妙的想法，但答案是否定的。不用担心，因为如果你呼出的碳比实际需要的多，那么我们现在就处于效率低下的状态。
You're burning way more energy than needed to do your activity.
您消耗的能量远远超出了活动所需的能量。
The heart has a metric called cardiac output.
心脏有一个称为心输出量的指标。
This is in science, we abbreviate this as Q for some odd reason.
这是在科学中，出于某种奇怪的原因，我们将其缩写为 Q。
So it's either CO or Q.
所以要么是CO，要么是Q。
And cardiac output is heart rate multiplied by stroke volume.
心输出量是心率乘以每搏输出量。
So it's how many beats per minute you're having, as well as how much blood's coming out of it.
所以这取决于你每分钟的心跳次数，以及从中流出的血液量。
So cardiac output is actually very specific to energy needs.
因此，心输出量实际上与能量需求非常相关。
If you try to work around that, it's just going to adjust itself.
如果你尝试解决这个问题，它就会自行调整。
So what I mean by this is, if you were able to increase your stroke volume, so the amount of blood coming out per pump, you would automatically adjust to reduce your heart rate so that you keep cardiac output exact to energetic demands.
所以我的意思是，如果您能够增加每搏输出量，即每次泵流出的血液量，您会自动调整以降低心率，从而使心输出量准确地满足能量需求。
So you're sort of pushing one end of the spectrum, but your body will pull the other one back to keep you at that exact same neutral level.
所以你有点推动了光谱的一端，但你的身体会将另一端拉回来，使你保持在完全相同的中立水平。
So, if you think about cardiovascular adaptations to endurance training, in any type of endurance training, a common thing people will understand is resting heart rate.
因此，如果您考虑心血管对耐力训练的适应，那么在任何类型的耐力训练中，人们都会理解的一个共同点是静息心率。
And so what that number is, is just how many beats per minute you're having when you're sitting here doing nothing.
所以这个数字就是当你坐在这里无所事事时每分钟有多少次心跳。
A very positive adaptation is a lowering of that resting rate over time.
一个非常积极的适应是随着时间的推移降低静息率。
As general numbers, what you will hear is people will say things like a normal resting heart rate is between 60 to 80 beats per minute.
作为一般数字，您会听到人们会说正常的静息心率是每分钟 60 到 80 次。
And, if any of the things I've talked about with the individuals I work with, I don't work with anybody with disease, just to clarify that.
而且，如果我与与我一起工作的人谈论过任何事情，我不会与任何患有疾病的人一起工作，只是为了澄清这一点。
I don't do anything with disease management, treatment, anything.
我不做任何疾病管理、治疗之类的事情。
It's always about people who are in a good spot, who want to optimize or get to the next level, whether this is professional athletes trying to peak for physical performance or the folks in our rapid health optimization program that feel good.
它总是与那些处于良好状态、想要优化或达到新水平的人有关，无论是试图达到身体表现巅峰的职业运动员，还是参与我们快速健康优化计划的感觉良好的人们。
Again, it's not disease stuff, and they want to feel incredible.
再说一遍，这不是疾病，他们想要感觉不可思议。
One of the metrics we're going to pay attention to is this resting heart rate.
我们要关注的指标之一是静息心率。
So here's what happens.
所以这就是发生的事情。
As you improve your endurance, your resting heart rate will go down.
当你提高耐力时，你的静息心率就会下降。
If I see somebody over 70 beats per minute, unless something's going on, you're not physically fit.
如果我看到有人每分钟心跳超过 70 次，除非有什么事情发生，否则你的身体状况不佳。
Regardless of whether or not that is, quote-unquote, within the normative values, I want to see everybody sub-60 beats per minute or close.
无论是否在标准值范围内，我希望看到每个人的心跳次数都低于每分钟 60 次或接近。
Right?
正确的？
That is not a difficult thing to really get to for most people.
对于大多数人来说，真正做到这一点并不困难。
So if you train a lot, regardless of how you train, intervals, steady state, doesn't matter, that resting heart rate will come down.
所以如果你训练很多，无论你如何训练、间隔、稳定状态，都没有关系，静息心率就会下降。
But since energy demands at rest haven't really changed, cardiac output stays the same.
但由于休息时的能量需求并没有真正改变，心输出量保持不变。
So what happens is stroke volume goes up.
因此，每搏输出量会增加。
So literally, like we trained your quadriceps on the leg extension machine to get stronger so you can produce more force per contraction, the heart will do the exact same thing.
所以从字面上看，就像我们在腿部伸展机上训练你的股四头肌变得更强壮，这样你每次收缩就可以产生更大的力量，心脏也会做同样的事情。
And so as you're able to get more of the blood out of your heart per pump, the heart realizes, "I don't need to pump as often." So that's the compensatory adaptation, which is saying, "Hey, look, I don't need to beat 60 times a minute.
因此，当每次泵血能够从心脏中抽出更多的血液时，心脏就会意识到，“我不需要那么频繁地泵血”。这就是补偿性适应，也就是说，“嘿，看，我不需要每分钟跳动 60 次。
I now need to beat 55 times a minute because I'm getting the same amount of blood out per pump.
我现在需要每分钟跳动 55 次，因为每次泵出的血液量是相同的。
Chill." And this is why your resting heart rate goes down, your resting stroke volume goes up, but your cardiac output is identical.
冷静点。”这就是为什么你的静息心率下降，你的静息每搏输出量上升，但你的心输出量是相同的。
So that's not a good metric of fitness.
所以这不是一个好的健身指标。
It's going to stay the same.
它会保持不变。
Cardiac output will only adjust for energetic changes.
心输出量只会根据能量变化进行调整。
Right?
正确的？
Energy requirements in the acute moment.
紧急时刻的能量需求。
Right?
正确的？
How much do I need?
我需要多少？
Go.
去。
Which is going to be determined by ventilation, right?
这将由通风决定，对吗？
How much air am I bringing in and putting out?
我吸入和排出多少空气？
That's going to determine cardiac output, and that's going to determine where we're at.
这将决定心输出量，也将决定我们所处的位置。
If you were to do a submaximal exercise test when you were unfit to when you're fit or when you're fit to where you're super fit.
如果您要在不适合、适合或超级适合时进行次最大运动测试。
At submax, you're going to see the same thing.
在 submax 下，你会看到同样的事情。
Cardiac output will be identical, and you're like, "Damn, nothing happened." What you're not realizing is your heart rate at that same workload is now lower, and that's efficiency because your stroke volume is higher.
心输出量将是相同的，你会想，“该死，什么也没发生。”您没有意识到的是，在相同的工作负荷下，您的心率现在更低，这就是效率，因为您的每搏输出量更高。
Where it gets people tripped up is at max because you may not see much of a change at max, because you don't really see an increase in maximum heart rate with fitness.
它让人们绊倒的地方是最大心率，因为你可能看不到最大心率有多大变化，因为你并没有真正看到最大心率随着健身而增加。
That's not a thing.
那不是一件事。
Right?
正确的？
So maximum heart rate is not a good proxy for fit or unfit or anything like that.
因此，最大心率并不能很好地代表健康或不健康或类似情况。
Stroke volume will get limited eventually by filling capacity of your heart.
每搏输出量最终会受到心脏充盈能力的限制。
It has to have so much time to fill up with blood before it can contract again and squeeze the blood out.
它必须有足够的时间来充满血液，然后才能再次收缩并将血液挤出。
And when you have a heart rate of 200 beats per minute, that just doesn't leave much time to fill.
当您的心率达到每分钟 200 次时，就没有多少时间可以填充了。
And so it won't really push you past that.
所以它不会真正让你过去。
So, don't worry about trying to increase your maximal heart rate.
因此，不必担心尝试提高最大心率。
That's not necessarily a good thing, and it won't really change.
这不一定是好事，也不会真正改变。
But your cardiac output will because stroke volume will be higher.
但你的心输出量会增加，因为每搏输出量会更高。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
But that doesn't necessarily mean that I should avoid training that gets me up toward maximal heart rate, correct?
但这并不一定意味着我应该避免让我达到最大心率的训练，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, you should absolutely do it.
哦，你绝对应该这么做。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Right.
对。
That was my assumption.
这是我的假设。
I'd like to take a brief break and acknowledge our sponsor, Athletic Greens.
我想稍微休息一下，并向我们的赞助商运动绿党表示感谢。
Athletic Greens is a vitamin, mineral, probiotic, and adaptogen drink designed to help you meet all of your foundational nutritional needs.
Athletic Greens 是一种维生素、矿物质、益生菌和适应原饮料，旨在帮助您满足所有基本营养需求。
I've been taking Athletic Greens daily since 2012, so I'm delighted that they're a sponsor of this podcast.
自 2012 年以来，我每天都服用 Athletic Greens，所以我很高兴他们是这个播客的赞助商。
The reason I started taking Athletic Greens, and the reason I still take Athletic Greens once or twice a day, is that it helps me meet all of my foundational nutritional needs.
我开始服用运动绿色食品的原因，以及我仍然每天服用一两次运动绿色食品的原因，是它可以帮助我满足我所有的基本营养需求。
That is, it covers my vitamins, my minerals, and the probiotics are especially important to me.
也就是说，它涵盖了我的维生素、矿物质，而益生菌对我来说尤其重要。
Athletic Greens also contains adaptogens, which are critical for recovering from stress, from exercise, from work, or just general life.
运动绿叶蔬菜还含有适应原，这对于从压力、锻炼、工作或一般生活中恢复至关重要。
If you'd like to try Athletic Greens, you can go to athleticgreens.com/huberman to claim a special offer.
如果您想尝试 Athletic Greens，可以访问 Athleticgreens.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。
They'll give you five free travel packs, and they'll give you a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2.
他们会为您提供五个免费旅行包，并为您提供一年的维生素 D3 K2。
Again, if you'd like to try Athletic Greens, go to athleticgreens.com/huberman to claim the special offer.
再次强调，如果您想尝试 Athletic Greens，请访问 Athletic Greens.com/huberman 获取特别优惠。
Getting back to energy production and metabolism.
回到能量产生和新陈代谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So we've got these different modes of moving energy, but making and breaking energy bonds in the body, moving energy into different tissues and out of different tissues and indeed out of the body through exhalation.
因此，我们有这些不同的能量移动模式，但在体内建立和打破能量键，将能量转移到不同的组织中，从不同的组织中转移出来，甚至通过呼气从身体中转移出去。
How do each of these different modes of energy utilization relate to different modes of movement and exercise?
这些不同的能量利用模式与不同的运动和锻炼模式有何关系？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
In my mind, I'm starting to draw a bridge between, okay, when I walk for 60 minutes If I'm talking, I'm breathing a bit more, maybe I'm burning a little more fat.
在我看来，我开始在两者之间架起一座桥梁，好吧，当我步行 60 分钟时，如果我说话，我的呼吸会多一点，也许我会燃烧更多的脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
After all, speech is a modified exhale.
毕竟，言语是一种改良的呼气。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
That's amazing.
太棒了。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
If I'm sprinting, I'm breathing differently.
如果我短跑，我的呼吸方式会有所不同。
And if I'm doing a 30-minute "moderate" jog, I'm breathing differently.
如果我进行 30 分钟的“适度”慢跑，我的呼吸方式就会有所不同。
So you've beautifully illustrated this bridge between energy production utilization and carbon dioxide offload through exhalation.
您已经完美地阐释了能源生产利用和通过呼气排出二氧化碳之间的这座桥梁。
What are some of the specifics about energy utilization according to different modes of exercise?
不同运动方式的能量利用有何特点？
And if we could better define modes of exercise or-
如果我们能够更好地定义锻炼模式或者-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
types of exercise that trigger specific adaptations, I think this is where the bridge will move from being a mere line to a real structure.
触发特定适应的练习类型，我认为这就是桥梁从单纯的线条转变为真正的结构的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
I want to lay one more foundational piece, and then it's going to be much easier to understand the limitations I put on some of these training protocols, as well as the lack of limitations.
我想打下又一个基础部分，然后就会更容易理解我对其中一些培训协议的限制以及缺乏限制。
Okay, so it's really, really important.
好吧，这真的非常非常重要。
The way I want to start this is we have this foundation now of carbon and basic energy production.
我想开始的方式是我们现在已经有了碳和基本能源生产的基础。
That's not to say there's no difference.
这并不是说没有区别。
There is, and that difference is important.
确实存在，而且这种差异很重要。
But maybe we can answer the question from earlier, which is actually something you asked me this morning when we were exercising.
但也许我们可以回答之前的问题，这实际上是你今天早上锻炼时问我的问题。
You're like, "Training fasted." Does training fasted enhance fat loss?
你会说“禁食训练”。禁食训练能促进减脂吗？
And the logic is sound.
而且逻辑是合理的。
If I don't have any fuel, then I should be burning more fat, therefore I should be losing more fat.
如果我没有任何燃料，那么我应该燃烧更多的脂肪，因此我应该减少更多的脂肪。
It's sound.
是声音。
It's not true.
这不是真的。
It's this great idea.
这是个好主意。
It's one of these classic things in science and exercise physiology where you're like, "Sounds good." Turns out it's not.
这是科学和运动生理学中的经典事物之一，你会说，“听起来不错。”事实证明并非如此。
It's actually a pretty gross misunderstanding of metabolism.
这实际上是对新陈代谢的一个相当严重的误解。
So it's not to pick on that topic.
所以这不是挑衅这个话题。
I don't really care about that topic, but it's a common question.
我不太关心这个话题，但这是一个常见问题。
It also gives me an opportunity to just tell you more about metabolism.
这也让我有机会向您介绍更多有关新陈代谢的信息。
So here's what happens.
所以这就是发生的事情。
You are breathing in O2 and breathing out CO2.
您吸入氧气并呼出二氧化碳。
However, the ratio to that is what we call either RER, respiratory exchange ratio, or RQ, respiratory quotient.
然而，这个比率就是我们所说的 RER（呼吸交换比）或 RQ（呼吸商）。
And I'm not going to differentiate those two.
我不会区分这两者。
They're not the same thing, but we're going to skip past that for now.
它们不是同一件事，但我们现在要跳过这一点。
As you begin to increase exercise intensity, the percentage of O2 to CO2 rises in the favor of CO2, so you start breathing out way more CO2 than you are breathing in O2.
当您开始增加运动强度时，氧气与二氧化碳的百分比会上升，有利于二氧化碳，因此您呼出的二氧化碳开始多于吸入的氧气。
And so if we were to look at that number, what's the relationship?
那么如果我们看一下这个数字，有什么关系呢？
It goes up.
它上升。
So at rest, most people have a value that we would typically call something like 0.6.
因此，在休息时，大多数人的值通常称为 0.6。
Okay?
好的？
And that's, again, the relationship between O2 and CO2.
这又是 O2 和 CO2 之间的关系。
Maybe 0.7.
也许是0.7。
If you were to go for a walk, that increases slightly because you're now expiring CO2 at a higher rate.
如果你去散步，这个值会略有增加，因为你现在以更高的速度呼出二氧化碳。
And so now you've moved up to, say, 0.8 or something like that.
现在你已经升级到了，比如说，0.8 或类似的值。
One of the ways that we mark somebody achieving an actual VO2 max on a test is if that value exceeds 1.1.
我们标记某人在测试中达到实际最大摄氧量的方法之一是该值是否超过 1.1。
Now, any of you who are paying attention are thinking, "Well, wait a minute.
现在，任何关注的人都会想：“好吧，等一下。
How the hell can a ratio between two things ever get past one?" Well, that's because you're getting to a place where you're actually offloading more CO2 than is actually necessary.
两件事之间的比例到底怎么可能超过一呢？”嗯，那是因为你实际上排放的二氧化碳比实际需要的多。
And this is what actually causes and explains a thing that people like to call EPOC, which is excess exercise post-oxygen consumption.
这实际上是导致和解释人们喜欢称之为 EPOC 的原因，即耗氧后的过度运动。
This is another way to think about it.
这是另一种思考方式。
The only reason you're breathing is to bring in oxygen and offload CO2.
您呼吸的唯一原因是吸入氧气并排出二氧化碳。
If I'm no longer exercising, why am I still breathing?
如果我不再锻炼，为什么我还在呼吸？
In other words, once you stop the demand or the need for energy, you should stop ventilating, but you don't.
换句话说，一旦你停止了对能量的需求或需求，你就应该停止通风，但你没有。
That's because in the case of low-intensity exercise, the second you stop, you're right back down to resting ventilation.
这是因为，在低强度运动的情况下，一旦停止，您就会立即恢复静息通气。
No problem, because you were able to match the need for energy with the offload of waste one to one during that exercise.
没问题，因为您能够在练习中将能量需求与废物卸载一对一地匹配。
When you start creeping up the intensity, you can't do that, so you have to basically start stealing a little bit of fuel here.
当你开始逐渐提高强度时，你就不能这样做，所以你基本上必须开始在这里偷一点燃料。
So even though you're done exercising, you're still ventilating because you have to pay that back.
所以即使你完成了锻炼，你仍然在通气，因为你必须偿还它。
And pay that back, by that I specifically mean you have to bring in oxygen, because you have a whole bunch of waste that's been accumulating in your tissue that you've got to deal with, and I'll walk you through what that waste is.
并回报这一点，我的意思是你必须引入氧气，因为你的组织中积累了一大堆废物，你必须处理这些废物，我将引导你了解这些废物是什么。
It's a particular molecule that a lot of people have heard of but grossly misunderstand.
这是一种很多人都听说过但严重误解的特殊分子。
So you've got to be able to handle that.
所以你必须能够处理好这个问题。
So the reason that you sit there and go and continue to ventilate is because you're now trying to pay back that excess post-exercise oxygen debt.
所以你坐在那里继续呼吸的原因是因为你现在正在努力偿还运动后多余的氧气债务。
That's that oxygen debt we're specifically talking about.
这就是我们特别讨论的氧气债。
All right, so that being said, as we start cruising up, that RQ starts going up, up, up.
好吧，话虽这么说，当我们开始巡航时，RQ 开始上升、上升、上升。
And if we get to one point oh, you're hurting.
如果我们达到某一点哦，你就会受伤。
You're in a pretty good spot.
你处于一个非常好的位置。
All right.
好的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I like that.
我喜欢这样。
You're hurting.
你受伤了。
You're in a pretty good spot.
你处于一个非常好的位置。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
There's a window into Dr. Andy Galpin's mind.
这是了解安迪·加尔平博士思想的一扇窗户。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Now you really want to be a subject in his laboratory studies.
现在你真的想成为他实验室研究的对象。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Masochists swarm to Andy's lab.
受虐狂涌入安迪的实验室。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
All right.
好的。
So the idea that I will lose more fat by being in an exercise situation that is burning more fat, it seems to make sense, but it's a massive failure to understand the metabolism.
因此，我会通过燃烧更多脂肪的运动来减掉更多脂肪，这似乎是有道理的，但这是对新陈代谢的巨大失败。
It's the exact same explanation to why exercising fasted doesn't matter.
这与为什么禁食锻炼并不重要的解释完全相同。
So the exercising fasted issue under normal circumstances is irrelevant because you have plenty of fuel in the system, even when you haven't eaten breakfast that morning.
因此，正常情况下禁食锻炼的问题是无关紧要的，因为即使你那天早上没有吃早餐，你的系统中仍然有充足的燃料。
Now, if you're talking extended fasting over multiple days, this is a different scenario.
现在，如果您谈论的是多天的长时间禁食，那么这是一种不同的情况。
If muscle glycogen, liver glycogen, and blood glucose are at sufficient levels, then you absolutely have enough energy to perform almost any type of exercise that most people are doing.
如果肌糖原、肝糖原和血糖处于足够的水平，那么您绝对有足够的能量来进行大多数人正在进行的几乎任何类型的运动。
Maybe if you're Rob and you're at mile 20 today, it's a different story, but the vast majority of us have plenty of fuel sitting around, so we're not going to burn more into fat just because we didn't eat breakfast that morning.
也许如果你是罗布，今天跑了 20 英里，情况就不同了，但我们绝大多数人都有充足的燃料，所以我们不会因为那天早上没有吃早餐而燃烧更多脂肪。
So that just doesn't make energetic sense.
所以这没有任何能量意义。
We have a lot of backup supplies.
我们有很多备用物资。
You're never out.
你永远不会出去。
The trick here is this.
这里的技巧是这样的。
There's a concept here we call crossover concept.
这里有一个概念，我们称之为交叉概念。
So as we are starting to move up exercise intensity, we start burning a higher percentage of our fuel from carbohydrates and a lower percentage of our fuel coming from fat.
因此，当我们开始提高运动强度时，我们开始燃烧更多来自碳水化合物的燃料，而更少来自脂肪的燃料。
I'm sleeping.
我正在睡觉。
That's the highest percentage of your fuel that will be coming from fat of any activity you could ever do.
这是您所能进行的任何活动中来自脂肪的能量的最高百分比。
So if the theory that I'm going to stay at a lower intensity to burn more fat was true, the optimal fat-burning strategy would then be to sleep.
因此，如果我将保持较低强度以燃烧更多脂肪的理论是正确的，那么最佳的脂肪燃烧策略就是睡觉。
That doesn't make sense.
这没有道理。
Of course, it doesn't.
当然，事实并非如此。
So why would then going at a slightly elevated rate somehow all of a sudden magically make you lose fat?
那么为什么稍微提高的速度会突然神奇地让你减掉脂肪呢？
It doesn't actually make sense.
这实际上没有意义。
When you think about it that way, you're like, "Oh, yeah.
当你这样想时，你会说：“哦，是的。
There's no way." So it's a percentage trick.
没有办法。”所以这是一个百分比技巧。
It's a difference between absolute and relative.
这是绝对和相对的区别。
This is what this confusion is.
这就是这种混乱。
So yes, as you start doing lower intensity exercise, whether you're fasted or not, it's irrelevant, but lower intensity exercise, a greater percentage of your fuel is coming from fat.
所以，是的，当你开始进行较低强度的运动时，无论你是否禁食，这都无关紧要，但较低强度的运动，你的能量的更大比例来自脂肪。
However, your total fuel expenditure is very low.
然而，您的总燃料消耗非常低。
So that whole total carbon balance is not really being shifted much.
因此，整个总碳平衡并没有真正发生太大变化。
As you start exercising at a very high intensity, you actually start getting a higher percentage of your fuel from carbohydrate and a lower percentage from fat.
当你开始以非常高的强度锻炼时，你实际上开始从碳水化合物中获取更高比例的能量，从脂肪中获取更低比例的能量。
In fact, at rest, about the highest you can get in most people is about 60% of your fuel from fat.
事实上，大多数人在休息时所能获得的最高能量大约有 60% 来自脂肪。
As you're sleeping, you might be 70%, but you'll never be in a position, ever, no matter what sort of thing you've heard on the internet, you'll never be in a situation where fat is your only fuel source.
当你睡觉时，你的能量可能会达到 70%，但你永远不会处于这样的境地，永远，无论你在互联网上听到什么样的说法，你永远不会处于脂肪是你唯一的燃料来源的情况。
The highest I've probably ever seen is like 70%.
我见过的最高的可能是70%。
You should probably be at about that.
你可能应该对此有所了解。
That's a good number to think, honestly.
老实说，这是一个值得思考的好数字。
But people who understand a little bit about metabolism to be dangerous, but not enough, will throw out these terms like fat adapted, and fat adapted is a real thing, but is a massive misunderstanding oftentimes, right?
但是，对新陈代谢有一点了解是危险的，但还不够了解的人，会抛出诸如“脂肪适应”之类的术语，“脂肪适应”是真实存在的，但往往是一个巨大的误解，对吗？
It is this idea of thinking like I can get into a spot where I'm maximizing fat burning.
正是这种想法让我认为我可以进入最大限度地燃烧脂肪的地方。
Maximizing fat burning and maximizing fat for exercise and maximizing fat loss over time are not the same thing at all.
随着时间的推移，最大限度地燃烧脂肪、最大限度地增加运动脂肪和最大限度地减少脂肪根本不是一回事。
That's the confusion.
这就是混乱。
So if you enhance fat oxidation in exercise, that does not enhance fat loss, per se.
因此，如果你在运动中增强脂肪氧化，这本身并不会促进脂肪减少。
So this is a lot of the confusion that's happening.
所以这就是正在发生的很多混乱。
So as we start moving up, we can never get in a position where we're using fat only as a fuel.
因此，当我们开始向上移动时，我们永远不会陷入仅使用脂肪作为燃料的境地。
Again, at best, you're at 70% fat, 30% carbohydrate.
再说一遍，最好的情况是脂肪含量为 70%，碳水化合物含量为 30%。
For a lot of reasons we probably just don't have time to get into today.
由于多种原因，我们可能没有时间进入今天。
However, the opposite is possible.
然而，相反的情况也是可能的。
When you get into true high-intensity exercise, you'll be basically 100% carbohydrate and 0% fat.
当你进行真正的高强度运动时，你基本上是 100% 碳水化合物和 0% 脂肪。
That is very possible.
这是很有可能的。
That, in fact, is 1.0.
事实上，这是 1.0。
That's what RQ-- 1.1 is actually because your ventilation got so high, you actually exceeded that number, even though you're at 100% carbohydrate.
这就是 RQ--1.1 实际上是因为你的通气量太高了，你实际上超过了这个数字，即使你的碳水化合物含量是 100%。
This is what people came up with the idea then is like, "Well, I don't want to burn carbs.
这就是人们当时想出的想法，“好吧，我不想燃烧碳水化合物。
I want to lose fat." So my response to that is always like, "Okay, great.
我想减掉脂肪。”所以我对此的回应总是这样的：“好吧，太好了。
So it makes sense.
所以这是有道理的。
Burning fat, losing fat.
燃烧脂肪，减掉脂肪。
Burning carbs is losing what, then?" You think your liver shrunk?
那么燃烧碳水化合物会失去什么呢？”你认为你的肝脏缩小了吗？
It's like, well, wait a minute.
就像，好吧，等一下。
What did you lose then?
那你失去了什么？
Where did it come from?
它从哪里来？
It's all coming as carbon.
一切都以碳的形式出现。
Don't worry about where it came from for your fuel.
不用担心燃料从哪里来。
It just has to come out as carbon.
它只需要以碳的形式出现即可。
There are differences in exercise efficiency for performance with our professional athletes, of course.
当然，我们的职业运动员在运动效率和表现方面存在差异。
But if the only goal here is fat loss, it doesn't matter where you get it from.
但如果唯一的目标是减脂，那么从哪里获得脂肪并不重要。
The last bridge we have to connect here is like, well, wait a minute.
我们在这里连接的最后一座桥就像是，好吧，等一下。
If I only burned carbohydrate, how did I actually lose that fat?
如果我只燃烧碳水化合物，我实际上是如何减掉脂肪的呢？
There was that love handle sitting on the side of me.
那个爱的把手就坐在我的身边。
How did that come out of me if I never burned that for my fuel?
如果我从来不把它作为燃料，我怎么会产生这种感觉呢？
What you're failing to understand is there's a balance game that happens here.
你无法理解的是这里发生了一场平衡游戏。
So if you were to do a bunch of high-intensity exercise training and you burned only muscle glycogen and blood glucose, and maybe even you did it for so long you burned some liver glycogen.
因此，如果你进行一系列高强度的运动训练，而你只燃烧了肌糖原和血糖，甚至可能你做了很长时间，你也燃烧了一些肝糖原。
The body understands that it has expelled a lot of energy from that side of the equation.
身体知道它已经从等式的那一侧排出了大量能量。
It's going to do a couple of things.
它将做几件事。
Now, it's very difficult to go through this fancy situation where you convert carbohydrates into fat and back and forth.
现在，要经历这种将碳水化合物转化为脂肪并来回转换的奇妙情况是非常困难的。
That's actually fairly hard.
这实际上相当困难。
What's easier to do is something you said earlier, is actually just bias energetics to a different fuel source.
更容易做的是你之前所说的，实际上只是将能量偏置到不同的燃料源。
So in that scenario where you're down really low in your carbohydrate stores, any carbohydrates you bring in are going to go to storage.
因此，在您的碳水化合物储存量非常低的情况下，您摄入的任何碳水化合物都将被储存起来。
And since your net energy expenditure is something that your body regulates a lot, any fat that you then bring in is going to be utilized as a fuel source because it knows it doesn't need it anymore.
由于你的净能量消耗是你的身体调节很多的东西，所以你引入的任何脂肪都将被用作燃料来源，因为它知道它不再需要它了。
That is in excess.
那是多余的。
So that's how you actually use fat as a fuel because you've burned down carbohydrate storages.
这就是你实际上如何使用脂肪作为燃料，因为你已经消耗了碳水化合物的储存。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
As I'm hearing this, a couple of things come to mind.
当我听到这个消息时，我想到了一些事情。
First of all, thank you for that incredibly important description of what is otherwise a very confusing landscape for most people.
首先，感谢您对大多数人来说非常令人困惑的景观的极其重要的描述。
One of the key points I took away, and I just want to say from the outset, this is not exhaustive by any stretch, is that burning fat does not equal losing fat from the body.
我从一开始就想说，这并不是详尽无遗的，燃烧脂肪并不等于从体内减少脂肪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct.
正确。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And then burning fat has to be divided into burning of body fat stores, and we need to distinguish that from burning of dietary fat that is brought in.
然后，燃烧脂肪必须分为体内脂肪储存的燃烧，我们需要将其与摄入的膳食脂肪的燃烧区分开来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct.
正确。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Oftentimes, people don't disambiguate those.
通常，人们不会消除这些歧义。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct.
正确。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And I'm also understanding that reducing one's body carbohydrate stores, muscle glycogen, liver glycogen, et cetera, occurs during high-intensity exercise.
我还了解到，高强度运动期间会减少体内碳水化合物储存、肌糖原、肝糖原等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
There's other ways, but that is one very efficient way to tap into those stores, which makes me wonder, again, this is one of these things that doesn't lead to a protocol, makes me wonder whether or not doing high intensity, let's say weight training for 45 to 60 minutes, 75 minutes of strength training, power training, hypertrophy training, which we've covered in an episode about those topics And then doing some steady state cardiovascular exercise, is there any benefit to that arrangement that would "enhance" body fat loss from the body, to be very specific now?
还有其他方法，但这是一种非常有效的方式来利用这些商店，这让我再次想知道，这是不会导致协议的事情之一，让我想知道是否进行高强度训练，比方说45到60分钟的重量训练，75分钟的力量训练，力量训练，肥大训练，我们在关于这些主题的一集中介绍了这些，然后进行一些稳态心血管运动，这种安排有什么好处可以“增强”身体脂肪从体内流失，现在非常具体吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Because unlike the idea that training fasted would shift the bias towards fat loss, which it doesn't, you've told us, under those conditions, muscle glycogen and maybe even liver glycogen is going to be depleted.
因为与禁食训练会改变减脂倾向的想法不同，你告诉我们，在这种情况下，肌肉糖原甚至肝糖原都会被耗尽，但事实并非如此。
Put simply, can I enhance body fat loss by doing some cardio after a bout of weight training?
简而言之，在进行一次重量训练后，我可以通过做一些有氧运动来增强身体减脂吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you equate for total energy expenditure, it won't matter.
如果你将总能量消耗等同起来，那就没关系了。
Now, you did bring up a very important point that I want to clarify.
现在，你确实提出了一个非常重要的观点，我想澄清一下。
If you look at the exercise modalities that we laid out in our previous conversations, we talked about nine different adaptations.
如果你看一下我们在之前的谈话中列出的锻炼方式，我们讨论了九种不同的适应方式。
One was skill, and then speed, power, strength, hypertrophy, muscular endurance, anaerobic capacity, aerobic capacity, and long-duration endurance.
一是技能，然后是速度、力量、力量、肥大、肌肉耐力、无氧能力、有氧能力和长时间耐力。
Now, speed, power, and skill development have almost no benefit for fat loss.
现在，速度、力量和技能的发展对于减脂几乎没有任何好处。
Because remember, those are low weight, a lot of rest, and low volume.
因为请记住，这些都是低重量、大量休息和低训练量。
They're not really going to be helpful.
他们不会真的有帮助。
You can make a little bit of a case for strength, a little bit, but the total energy expenditure for strength training, even if it's an hour, if it's truly strength training, it's fairly low.
你可以为力量做一点理由，一点点，但是力量训练的总能量消耗，即使是一个小时，如果是真正的力量训练，它是相当低的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Because the repetitions are in the one to three range.
因为重复次数是在一到三次的范围内。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's exactly it.
就是这样。
It's not enough for total work.
这对于全部工作来说还不够。
So if you're trying to develop a protocol that sort of optimizes fat loss, what you want to do, you were close, in my opinion, is do a combination of something in the hypertrophy/muscular endurance strength training realm.
因此，如果您正在尝试开发一种优化减脂的方案，那么在我看来，您想要做的就是在肥大/肌肉耐力力量训练领域进行一些组合。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Okay, so six to 30 repetitions-
好的，重复六到三十次-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Something like that
类似的东西
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
of resistance training.
的阻力训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Deplete muscle glycogen, maybe even a bit of liver glycogen.
消耗肌糖原，甚至可能消耗一点肝糖原。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe a little bit, depending on if you're doing it for a long time, but probably not a noticeable amount.
也许有一点，取决于你是否长时间这样做，但可能不会很明显。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Okay, so an hour of hypertrophy type training.
好的，一个小时的增肌训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're training hard with low rest intervals and you really did an hour, you would for sure get there.
如果你训练强度大，休息时间短，而且你确实训练了一个小时，那么你肯定能达到目标。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Which is-
这是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But most people don't, because you're taking breaks
但大多数人不这样做，因为你正在休息
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
is that the reason why I crave large bowls of oatmeal and rice after I do weight training?
这就是我在做举重训练后渴望吃大碗燕麦片和米饭的原因吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I mean-
是的，我的意思是-
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I want to replenish muscle glycogen.
我想补充肌糖原。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Totally.
完全可以。
Right?
正确的？
Then you maybe do a little bit of very high intensity, maximum heart rate, well over VO2 max, hard as you can for 20, 30, 45, 60 seconds, something like that, with some recovery, a lot of recovery, and repeated.
然后你可能会做一点非常高强度、最大心率、远超过最大摄氧量的运动，尽你所能持续20、30、45、60秒，类似这样的动作，经过一些恢复、大量恢复，然后重复。
And that's going to do a great job of replenishing muscle glycogen.
这对于补充肌糖原有很大的作用。
Right?
正确的？
If you do that long enough, you'll get the liver, but again, most people don't because it's really, really hard to go that hard for that long.
如果你这样做的时间足够长，你就会得到肝脏，但同样，大多数人不会，因为要坚持那么长时间真的非常非常困难。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So liver is sort of last resort.
所以肝脏是最后的手段。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, basic mechanics here, which we'll actually get into as our third segment here, is energy production comes from the local exercising muscle first and foremost from phosphocreatine and carbohydrate stores.
是的，这里的基本机制，我们实际上将在第三部分中讨论，能量的产生来自局部锻炼肌肉，首先是来自磷酸肌酸和碳水化合物的储存。
Right?
正确的？
And so again, and we store it in a muscle, we call it glycogen.
同样，我们将其储存在肌肉中，我们称之为糖原。
Right?
正确的？
That's your first line of defense.
这是你的第一道防线。
If you need glucose outside of that, you're going to start pulling it from the blood.
如果您除此之外还需要葡萄糖，您将开始从血液中提取葡萄糖。
But one of the things, your body regulates a handful of things over almost everything.
但其中一件事是，你的身体对几乎所有事情都进行调节。
Blood pH, blood glucose, blood pressure, and electrolyte concentrations.
血液 pH 值、血糖、血压和电解质浓度。
It really does not want to mess with those things at all.
它真的一点也不想去搅乱那些事情。
It will change almost anything else in the body to keep those things standardized, right?
它会改变身体中的几乎所有其他东西以保持这些东西标准化，对吗？
Generally, because you need all those things for your brain to work, and your brain will stop working, right?
一般来说，因为你的大脑需要所有这些东西才能工作，所以你的大脑就会停止工作，对吗？
If you lose blood pressure, it won't go up there.
如果你血压下降了，血压就不会升高。
pH changes, you can't run metabolism.
pH值改变，新陈代谢就无法进行。
Electrolytes change, you can't think.
电解质会发生变化，你无法想象。
And glucose is a primary fuel source for the brain.
葡萄糖是大脑的主要燃料来源。
It's going to be a problem, right?
这将会是一个问题，对吗？
So if that number starts to come down because you're grabbing glucose out of the blood, your liver is going to then kick in.
因此，如果这个数字因为你从血液中提取葡萄糖而开始下降，你的肝脏就会开始工作。
It's going to break down its glycogen to put glucose into the blood to keep the blood number the level.
它将分解其糖原，将葡萄糖放入血液中，以保持血液浓度处于水平。
In fact, one of the things you'll see is blood glucose concentrations rise during exercise.
事实上，您会看到的一件事是运动期间血糖浓度升高。
They don't fall.
他们不会跌倒。
In fact, they rise as an anticipatory state.
事实上，它们是作为一种预期状态而崛起的。
If you train a lot, your blood glucose will start going up before you start moving.
如果您进行大量训练，您的血糖就会在开始运动之前开始上升。
It knows it's coming, right?
它知道它即将到来，对吗？
So you can play that game.
所以你可以玩那个游戏。
You can rob Peter to pay Paul for a long time until your liver runs out.
你可以抢劫彼得来支付保罗很长一段时间，直到你的肝脏耗尽。
And that's what actually is a bonk in terms of long duration endurance stuff.
这实际上是长期耐力方面的一个问题。
You're talking many, many, many miles, several hours typically.
你说的是很多很多英里，通常是几个小时。
We say, oh, it's got to be over two hours before your liver starts to become a real problem, or it has to be tremendously intense.
我们说，哦，必须经过两个多小时你的肝脏才会开始出现真正的问题，或者情况必须非常严重。
Because of those reasons.
由于这些原因。
You have to burn through just a lot of energy before your liver starts to get into a problem.
在您的肝脏开始出现问题之前，您必须消耗大量能量。
You can continue to train when your muscle glycogen levels are low.
当肌糖原水平较低时，您可以继续训练。
In fact, people say glycogen depletion in muscle, but it's generally a misnomer.
事实上，人们说肌肉糖原耗尽，但这通常是一个误称。
You are going to just have tremendous signals of fatigue when that number gets lower than 75%.
当该数字低于 75% 时，您就会感受到强烈的疲劳信号。
So people think that their muscles are getting heavy.
所以人们认为他们的肌肉变重了。
You're probably still 75% full.
你可能还剩 75%。
A lot of folks will quit around the 50%.
很多人会在 50% 左右退出。
The highest I've ever seen is like 95% true depletion, and that's in extremely high-level cross-country skiers in like their deltoid.
我所见过的最高水平是 95% 的真实损耗，这是在极高水平的越野滑雪运动员中发生的，比如他们的三角肌。
Gets very, very low.
变得非常非常低。
Some very talented runners will get fairly low in their quads.
一些非常有天赋的跑步者的股四头肌会变得相当低。
But the vast majority of folks, by the time you're 50% depleted, you're going to quit.
但绝大多数人，当你的精力耗尽了 50% 时，你就会放弃。
It's going to be really, really challenging.
这将非常非常具有挑战性。
So you're never really going to get that low.
所以你永远不会真正变得那么低。
It's like a bit of a protective mechanism, right?
这有点像一种保护机制，对吧？
But when your liver gets low, you're going to be shut down.
但当你的肝脏变低时，你就会被关闭。
And that's the case of if you've ever been in a marathon and you've seen people run like 25 and a half miles, and then they just bonk.
如果你参加过马拉松比赛，你会看到有人跑了 25 英里半，然后他们就摔倒了。
They go into baby deer walking stance, and then they collapse.
他们进入小鹿行走姿势，然后倒下。
And you're like, "How are you mentally weak?
你会说：“你的心理素质怎么这么弱？
You ran 26 miles and you can't run the last point." It ain't mentally weak.
你跑了 26 英里，却跑不到最后一点。”这并不是精神上的弱者。
If your liver is done, it's going to stop you, because there's no more backup reserves.
如果你的肝脏衰竭了，它就会阻止你，因为没有更多的备用储备。
Muscle you can get away with, you can push through it.
你可以逃脱的肌肉，你可以通过它。
Liver will not let you go any farther.
肝脏不会让你走得更远。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I find this fascinating because it makes me wonder whether or not the liver being depleted sends a neural signal to the brain.
我觉得这很有趣，因为它让我想知道被耗尽的肝脏是否会向大脑发送神经信号。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, absolutely.
哦，绝对是。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Or the brain must register some signal, like, "I would like to be alive tomorrow, thank you.
或者大脑必须记录一些信号，例如，“我希望明天还活着，谢谢。
Whatever is happening right now, stopping is going to be safer than continuing."
无论现在发生什么，停止都比继续更安全。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And so that stop signal is one that I think a lot of people, including myself, are intrigued by, because we always think that it's related to willpower.
因此，我认为很多人，包括我自己，都对停止信号感兴趣，因为我们总是认为它与意志力有关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
The brain needs to preserve itself.
大脑需要保护自己。
And as the master computer, there are ways to go into kind of automaton type-
作为主计算机，有多种方法可以进入自动机类型-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
not thinking, just doing type of behavior.
不思考，只是做某种行为。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You have override switches, right?
你有超越开关，对吗？
And you can play those cards, and you can get better at learning and being less sensitive to that switch.
你可以玩这些牌，你可以更好地学习并且对这种转变不那么敏感。
That's exactly what happened when you first start training.
这正是你刚开始训练时发生的情况。
You start to realize like, "Oh my gosh, I'm super tired." And then you realize really quickly, like, "Oh, I'm totally fine here." And this is like the...
你开始意识到，“天哪，我太累了。”然后你很快就会意识到，“哦，我在这里一切都很好。”这就像...
Pick your person who's made sayings like this, but it's like you're really only 10% depleted, or 30%, or 40%, or some number.
选一个说过这样的话的人，但好像你真的只耗尽了 10%，或 30%，或 40%，或某个数字。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
We're all operating at 40% of what we could do.
我们都以我们能做的 40% 的速度工作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Of course.
当然。
Any of those things are true because it is like a little bit of an override.
这些事情中的任何一个都是真实的，因为它就像一点点覆盖。
You've just gotten very sensitive to being a small percentage depleted, and you've learned, "Okay, I'm tired." And there is a long way to go past that.
你刚刚对一小部分耗尽变得非常敏感，并且你已经学会了，“好吧，我累了。”要超越这一点还有很长的路要走。
But once you get past that, and you flip that override switch a lot, you're going to break quickly because you've basically learned to ignore that signal, and problems can happen really quickly after that.
但是一旦你克服了这个问题，并且频繁地翻转该超控开关，你就会很快崩溃，因为你基本上已经学会了忽略该信号，之后问题可能很快就会发生。
And that's even experienced endurance athletes, if you hit that level, it's like you're going to be hitting the concrete next.
即使是经验丰富的耐力运动员，如果你达到了这个水平，就好像你接下来就要打混凝土了。
And that's potentially a problem.
这可能是一个问题。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I want to make sure I understand a concept that you referred to earlier correctly, because I have a feeling that I don't.
我想确保我正确理解了您之前提到的一个概念，因为我有一种感觉，我没有正确理解。
And that's this issue of how the body accesses body fat stores-
这就是身体如何获取体内脂肪储存的问题——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
when in a subcaloric state and I'm doing mainly glycogen-burning exercise.
当处于低热量状态并且我主要进行糖原燃烧运动时。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
What I heard you say, and please correct me where I'm undoubtedly wrong, what I heard you say was that, okay, I go into the gym, and I start lifting weights.
我听到你说的，请纠正我毫无疑问是错误的地方，我听到你说的是，好吧，我走进健身房，然后开始举重。
I'm burning muscle glycogen, mostly local to the muscles that I'm using, and then I start pulling glycogen from the bloodstream.
我正在燃烧肌糖原，主要是我正在使用的肌肉局部的糖原，然后我开始从血液中提取糖原。
Maybe there's some body fat stores that are mobilized, probably not dipping into my liver glycogen.
也许体内储存的一些脂肪被动员起来，可能不会消耗我的肝糖原。
Okay.
好的。
I complete the workout.
我完成了锻炼。
Maybe I even hop on the Airdyne bike and do a little sprint.
也许我什至会跳上 Airdyne 自行车并进行一些冲刺。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Maybe I go for a jog.
也许我去慢跑。
Maybe I eat immediately afterward.
也许我会立即吃东西。
Maybe I don't eat for a few hours afterwards.
也许之后几个小时我都没有吃东西。
But across the day, I ingest fewer calories than I burn.
但一整天，我摄入的卡路里少于消耗的卡路里。
Is it the case that body fat is mobilized in order to replace the glycogen that my subcaloric intake was insufficient to provide?
是否是身体脂肪被调动来代替我的低热量摄入不足以提供的糖原？
In other words-
换句话说——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
because I didn't eat enough to fill the glycogen stores, am I using body fat converted into glycogen to fill those stores?
因为我没有吃足够的食物来补充糖原储备，所以我是否使用体内脂肪转化为糖原来补充这些储备？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And if so, is that a case where I'm no longer exhaling carbons in order to burn body fat, but rather I'm repurposing body fat into muscle?
如果是这样，我是否不再呼出碳来燃烧身体脂肪，而是将身体脂肪重新转化为肌肉？
Have I turned fat into muscle in that case?
那我有把脂肪变成肌肉吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I'm really glad you asked this because I did a very poor job on that last point talking about it earlier.
我真的很高兴你问这个问题，因为我在之前谈论的最后一点上做得非常糟糕。
I'm realizing, playing it back in my head, because that's so many really good questions.
我意识到这一点，并在脑海中回放，因为这是很多非常好的问题。
You cannot turn fat into muscle.
你无法将脂肪转化为肌肉。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Can you turn muscle into fat?
你能把肌肉变成脂肪吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No.
不。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I'm so glad you said that because when I was in college-
我很高兴你这么说，因为当我上大学时-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
our, I don't want to out that person, the physiology teacher seemed to think still at that point that one could lift weights, get muscular, but then it would eventually turn into body fat.
我们，我不想说那个人，生理学老师似乎仍然认为，一个人可以举重，变得肌肉发达，但最终会变成身体脂肪。
That myth has, I think, largely been dispelled.
我认为，这个神话已经基本上被消除了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I heard that so many times as a kid.
我小时候听过很多次。
I heard it so many times in college.
大学的时候听过很多次了
I hear it so many times in our undergraduate students from other faculty and such.
我在其他学院的本科生身上多次听到过这样的说法。
So, no. They are not the same structures.
所以，不。它们不是相同的结构。
They are very different.
他们非常不同。
Let me take a shot at answering this better.
让我尝试更好地回答这个问题。
You were really close.
你们真的很亲密。
So yeah.
所以是的。
If you were to do that type of exercise where you've burned a lot of muscle glycogen, how is it I'm losing stored fat?
如果你进行那种燃烧了大量肌糖原的运动，我怎么会失去储存的脂肪呢？
That's really the crux of the question.
这确实是问题的关键。
And it doesn't even actually matter if you then went ahead and ingested carbohydrates or fat post-exercise.
如果你在运动后继续摄入碳水化合物或脂肪，实际上并不重要。
That's not really a thing.
这其实不是一件事。
You hit on a couple of key things.
你发现了一些关键的事情。
Number one, this is all under the assumption that total caloric intake is still low.
第一，这一切都是在总热量摄入仍然较低的假设下进行的。
You have to have-
你必须有——
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Below total need.
低于总需求。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Below total need.
低于总需求。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I also want to flag calories in, calories out is not the only thing that matters.
我还想标记输入的卡路里，输出的卡路里并不是唯一重要的事情。
This is a very complex thing.
这是一件非常复杂的事情。
Calories in is incredibly complicated.
卡路里的含量极其复杂。
Calories out is even more complicated, okay?
卡路里消耗就更复杂了，好吗？
So we just-- Maybe another series we can spend on that alone.
所以我们只是——也许我们可以单独花另一个系列。
So don't go nuts about that.
所以不要为此发疯。
You have to be hypocaloric one way or the other.
你必须以某种方式保持低热量。
If you burn a bunch of muscle glycogen and you are hypercaloric, you're still going to add fat.
如果你燃烧了一堆肌糖原并且热量过高，你仍然会增加脂肪。
If you burn a bunch of muscle glycogen and you're hypocaloric, you're going to lose fat.
如果你燃烧大量肌糖原并且热量不足，你就会减掉脂肪。
Think about it this way.
这样想吧。
You're in a negative calorie state.
你处于负卡路里状态。
Where are those calories going to come from?
这些卡路里从哪里来？
Are you going to reduce your muscle glycogen storages permanently?
您打算永久减少肌糖原储存吗？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. Are you going to reduce your glycogen storage in your liver?
不会。您要减少肝脏中的糖原储存吗？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You want to reduce blood glucose?
你想降低血糖吗？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No way.
没办法。
So where is that extra energy coming from?
那么额外的能量从哪里来呢？
It's coming from your stored fat.
它来自您储存的脂肪。
It is your backup reserve energy system.
它是您的备用储备能源系统。
The way that I want to flag this here is people tend to think about it as like carbohydrates versus fat.
我想在这里指出这一点的方式是，人们倾向于将其视为碳水化合物与脂肪。
It's more like a chain, more like a bicycle, where there's a front gear and a back gear.
它更像是一条链条，更像是一辆自行车，有一个前齿轮和一个后齿轮。
You turn one gear, it turns the other one.
你转动一个齿轮，它就会转动另一个齿轮。
These are complementary systems.
这些是互补的系统。
They are not and/or systems.
它们不是和/或系统。
You're turning one, and when we go through carbohydrate metabolism, maybe here in a second, you'll understand why you have to have an anaerobic and an aerobic component to that.
你正在一岁，当我们经历碳水化合物代谢时，也许很快，你就会明白为什么你必须有无氧和有氧成分。
There is absolutely no way to complete carbohydrate metabolism without oxygen.
没有氧气是绝对不可能完成碳水化合物代谢的。
That has to happen.
那必须发生。
The only way to engage in fat metabolism is aerobic and oxygen.
参与脂肪代谢的唯一方法是有氧运动和氧气。
There's no anaerobic component to it.
它没有厌氧成分。
So there's a fundamental difference there.
所以这里有一个根本的区别。
So your carbohydrates are meant to be incredibly flexible.
所以你的碳水化合物应该非常灵活。
It is the primary fuel source for a reason.
它是主要燃料来源是有原因的。
Your fat is not meant to be flexible.
你的脂肪并不意味着具有柔韧性。
It is meant to be unlimited.
它意味着是无限的。
That's the basic point.
这是基本点。
So you want flexibility over here and then unlimited capacity over there.
所以你需要这里的灵活性，然后那里的无限容量。
Now I'm safeguarded against any energetic need.
现在我可以免受任何能量需求。
Okay?
好的？
I need to run up a hill for safety, cool, carbohydrates are there.
为了安全起见，我需要跑上一座山，凉爽，那里有碳水化合物。
I need to then run for 17 hours, cool, fat is there.
然后我需要跑17个小时，酷，脂肪就在那里。
We want both of these systems.
我们想要这两个系统。
You want to be able to have great energy throughout the day.
您希望能够一整天都精力充沛。
You want a slow drip coming from fat.
你想要脂肪缓慢滴落。
You don't want up and down, up and down, feel great, up and down.
你不想起起落落，起起落落，感觉很棒，起起落落。
Awesome.
惊人的。
You want to be able to think very quickly and get hyper-focused.
您希望能够快速思考并高度集中注意力。
Boom, carbohydrates ramp right up, right?
繁荣，碳水化合物直线上升，对吧？
Get it into the brain, get thinking better, get thinking clearly fast.
将其输入大脑，更好地思考，快速清晰地思考。
So we want all these, not just for exercise purposes, but for activities of daily living, we want an optimal system here.
所以我们想要所有这些，不仅仅是为了锻炼目的，而是为了日常生活活动，我们想要一个最佳的系统。
And when people use the terms like fat adapted, they're generally hijacking that and they're thinking-- It used to be a thing we said all the time in all of my undergraduate classes for years, and that idea of metabolic flexibility is using optimal fuel sources and optimal times, not maximizing fat usage.
当人们使用“脂肪适应”这样的术语时，他们通常会劫持这个术语，他们会想——这曾经是我们多年来在我所有的本科课程中一直说的一句话，代谢灵活性的想法是使用最佳的燃料来源和最佳的时间，而不是最大化脂肪的使用。
The people have co-opted that term of metabolic flexibility to being like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, therefore learn how to maximize fat burning." That's not what that term means.
人们已经将代谢灵活性这个术语改成了“哦，是的，是的，因此学习如何最大限度地燃烧脂肪。”这不是这个词的意思。
That term means maximizing your ability to use whatever fuel is optimal in that time.
该术语意味着最大限度地提高您使用当时最佳燃料的能力。
Now, I'll grant you, most people aren't fantastic at using fat as a fuel source relative to the other direction, but nonetheless, the gold standard here should be maximizing both.
现在，我承认，大多数人并不擅长使用脂肪作为相对于另一个方向的燃料来源，但尽管如此，这里的黄金标准应该是最大化两者。
All right, finally answering your question.
好吧，终于回答你的问题了。
If I were to burn a bunch of muscle glycogen, how am I losing that fat?
如果我要燃烧一堆肌糖原，我该如何减掉那些脂肪呢？
Well, the fuel you're ingesting in that hypocaloric state is going to say, "Hey, look, we have a lot of muscle glycogen we have to replenish." So any carbohydrate that comes in needs to be biased towards storage.
好吧，你在低热量状态下摄入的燃料会说：“嘿，看，我们有很多肌糖原，我们必须补充。”因此，任何进入的碳水化合物都需要偏向于储存。
It's got to go into those tissue.
它必须进入那些组织。
Any fat that comes in or doesn't even come in, but any fat that we're using for fuel needs to be utilized for activity.
任何进入或什至不进入的脂肪，但我们用作燃料的任何脂肪都需要用于活动。
And that's where that caloric expenditure from fat comes in.
这就是脂肪产生的热量消耗的来源。
So you're basically saying your general physiology, the energy for that starts coming from fat, and the energy that's coming in from carbohydrate needs to be simply stored.
所以你基本上是在说你的一般生理机能，能量开始来自脂肪，而来自碳水化合物的能量需要简单地储存起来。
And so what you see is your respiratory quotient changes, right?
所以你看到的是你的呼吸商的变化，对吧？
The RER is going off.
RER 即将关闭。
And so in the exercise moment, it shot way up for carbohydrates and shot way down for fat.
因此，在锻炼时，碳水化合物的摄入量大幅上升，脂肪的摄入量大幅下降。
As the compensatory response, it goes the other direction because your body's saying, "We are low on carbohydrates.
作为补偿反应，它会向另一个方向发展，因为你的身体会说：“我们的碳水化合物含量很低。
Don't use them for fuel unless we absolutely have to." Right?
除非绝对必要，否则不要将它们用作燃料。”正确的？
So use them for storage.
因此，请使用它们来存储。
Get our fuel from the fat side of the equation.
从等式的脂肪一侧获取我们的燃料。
And so what you're generally going to say is, "Oh, I'm burning more fat just sitting around after things like that." And that's not even taking into the equation the EPOC part, which is it's not actually as large as people think it is.
所以你通常会说，“哦，在这样的事情之后，我只是坐着燃烧更多的脂肪。”这甚至没有考虑 EPOC 部分，即它实际上并不像人们想象的那么大。
It's fairly small.
它相当小。
But it adds up sort of over time.
但随着时间的推移，它会逐渐增加。
So, does that explain a little bit better about how you lose fat when you actually only burn carbs for exercise?
那么，这是否能更好地解释当你实际上只燃烧碳水化合物进行运动时如何减脂呢？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
You explained it beautifully.
你解释得很漂亮。
You talked about EPOC, the post-exercise oxygen consumption-
您谈到了 EPOC，即运动后耗氧量 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
not being that significant-
没那么重要-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
in terms of energy utilization.
在能源利用方面。
Even though today we're talking about endurance and different forms of endurance, I do have to ask whether or not people consider the elevation in basal metabolism that occurs when there's more muscle around-
尽管今天我们谈论的是耐力和不同形式的耐力，但我确实要问人们是否考虑到当周围有更多肌肉时基础代谢会升高-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
because muscle is such a metabolically demanding tissue.
因为肌肉是一种代谢要求很高的组织。
Is there a straightforward-ish equation?
有没有一个简单的等式？
If one adds one pound of-
如果添加一磅-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
lean muscle tissue to their body, even if it's distributed across multiple muscle groups, does that equate to a caloric need of X number of calories per day?
即使它分布在多个肌肉群中，这是否相当于每天需要 X 卡路里的热量？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And is that because of the muscle protein synthesis needs of that muscle, or its glycogen storage needs, or both?
这是因为该肌肉的肌肉蛋白质合成需求，或其糖原储存需求，还是两者兼而有之？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you don't have enough muscle, you start to have problems with fat loss.
如果你没有足够的肌肉，你就会开始出现减脂问题。
It's a difficult challenge.
这是一个艰巨的挑战。
If you have enough muscle, and you're just trying to get extremely large, if your FFMI is 24 and you're 15% body fat, adding more muscle is not really going to play a lot in the equation, and here's why.
如果你有足够的肌肉，并且你只是想变得非常大，如果你的 FFMI 是 24 并且你的体脂是 15%，那么增加更多的肌肉并不会真正发挥很大作用，原因如下。
Muscle is more metabolically active at rest than fat, but fat is not inert, so fat is still going to burn a small number of calories.
肌肉在休息时比脂肪的代谢更加活跃，但脂肪并不是惰性的，因此脂肪仍然会燃烧少量的卡路里。
Muscle burns more, but it's not nearly what people think it is.
肌肉燃烧更多，但它并不像人们想象的那样。
I'm a muscle guy.
我是一个肌肉男。
I'm a muscle physiologist.
我是一名肌肉生理学家。
I would love to get people to have more muscle for any excuse I can.
我很乐意以任何借口让人们拥有更多的肌肉。
It's not honest to say that, though.
不过，这样说并不诚实。
You're talking about when I was in undergraduate, we would say numbers like 50 kcals per day per pound is what you can look at, right?
你说的是我在读本科时，我们会说每天每磅 50 大卡的数字是你可以看到的，对吗？
So if you put on a pound of muscle spread across the body, your basal metabolic rate would go up by around 50 calories per day.
因此，如果你在全身增加一磅肌肉，你的基础代谢率每天会增加约 50 卡路里。
I think that number is grossly exaggerated.
我认为这个数字被严重夸大了。
It's probably a tenth of that, 6 to 10 calories maybe.
可能是十分之一，也许是 6 到 10 卡路里。
It's hard to know exactly what that number is, but the more recent estimates are something like that.
很难确切知道这个数字是多少，但最近的估计是这样的。
So now on one hand, you could say, "Oh my gosh, that is not even meaningful." The other hand, you could say that's super meaningful.
所以现在一方面，你可以说，“天哪，这根本没有意义。”另一方面，你可以说这非常有意义。
It just depends on time domain you want to put that out, right?
这仅取决于您想要将其输出的时域，对吧？
So if you were to put on five pounds of muscle and your basal metabolic rate went up 30 or 40 calories a day, well, over the course of 1,000 days, that actually adds up.
因此，如果您增加 5 磅肌肉，并且您的基础代谢率每天增加 30 或 40 卡路里，那么在 1,000 天的过程中，这实际上会增加。
So you could slice this any way you want.
所以你可以用任何你想要的方式来切片。
Now, maybe that number is somewhere in between.
现在，也许这个数字介于两者之间。
I don't really know.
我真的不知道。
It's not a field I pay that much attention to, candidly, because it's not a metric, kind of like EPOC, where it's like we used to really harp on it, and now it's sort of like, well, maybe we exaggerated that honestly just a bit.
坦率地说，这不是一个我非常关注的领域，因为它不是一个度量标准，有点像 EPOC，我们过去常常反复讨论它，而现在有点像，好吧，也许我们确实夸大了一点。
But to me, it doesn't change the equation much, because if you don't have enough muscle, as I described, there are other consequences that are going to make fat loss hard.
但对我来说，它并没有太大改变这个方程，因为如果你没有足够的肌肉，正如我所描述的，还会出现其他后果，使减脂变得困难。
And so you need to have sufficient muscle If the additional caloric expenditure is the carrot, great.
所以你需要有足够的肌肉如果额外的热量支出是胡萝卜，那就太好了。
If it's something else, I don't really care.
如果是别的事，我真的不在乎。
There's just enough evidence that you need to have it.
有足够的证据表明您需要拥有它。
Or I should say, there's enough evidence that it will really help you in your path.
或者我应该说，有足够的证据表明它确实会对你的道路有所帮助。
Maybe a few calories here or there is not really the thing, especially if you understand a normal food item.
也许这里或那里的一些卡路里并不是真正的问题，特别是如果你了解正常的食物。
Anything you pick is going to be probably a couple of hundred calories.
你选择的任何东西都可能含有几百卡路里。
One bad food choice a day will outkick almost any amount of coverage you got on adding muscle mass to you.
每天选择一种糟糕的食物几乎会超过你增加肌肉质量的任何覆盖范围。
So you're really stepping over $1 to pick up a dime if you're worried about how many calories you're getting from adding muscle.
因此，如果您担心通过增加肌肉获得多少卡路里，那么您确实要花 1 美元才能买到一毛钱。
Fat loss is going to be about regulating that carbon intake above and beyond anything else.
减肥的重点是控制碳摄入量，而不是其他任何事情。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I'd like to take a brief break to acknowledge our sponsor, InsideTracker.
我想稍微休息一下，以感谢我们的赞助商 InsideTracker。
InsideTracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and help you reach your health goals.
InsideTracker 是一个个性化营养平台，可分析您的血液和 DNA 数据，帮助您更好地了解您的身体并帮助您实现健康目标。
I've long been a believer in getting regular blood work done for the simple reason that many of the factors that impact your immediate and long-term health and well-being can only be analyzed from a quality blood test.
长期以来，我一直坚信定期进行血液检查，原因很简单，影响您当前和长期健康和福祉的许多因素只能通过高质量的血液测试来分析。
One issue with a lot of blood tests and DNA tests out there, however, is that you get information back about various levels of lipids and hormones and metabolic factors, et cetera, but you don't know what to do with that information.
然而，大量血液测试和 DNA 测试的一个问题是，你会得到有关不同水平的脂质、激素和代谢因素等的信息，但你不知道如何处理这些信息。
InsideTracker makes knowing what to do with all that information exceedingly easy.
InsideTracker 使了解如何处理所有这些信息变得非常容易。
They have a personalized platform that lets you see what your specific numbers are, of course, but then also what sorts of behavioral dos and don'ts, what sorts of nutritional changes, what sorts of supplementation would allow you to bring those levels into the ranges that are optimal for you.
当然，他们有一个个性化的平台，可以让你看到你的具体数字是多少，还有哪些行为该做、不该做、什么样的营养变化、什么样的补充剂可以让你将这些水平调整到最适合你的范围。
If you'd like to try InsideTracker, you can visit insidetracker.com/huberman to get 20% off any of InsideTracker's plans.
如果您想尝试 InsideTracker，可以访问 insidetracker.com/huberman，享受任何 InsideTracker 计划 20% 的折扣。
Again, that's insidetracker.com/huberman to get 20% off.
同样，在 insidetracker.com/huberman 上可以获得 20% 的折扣。
So I've heard about this concept of metabolic flexibility mentioned a few times.
所以我多次听说过代谢灵活性的概念。
Frankly, you're the first person who's ever explained it to me in a clear and concise way.
坦白说，你是第一个以清晰简洁的方式向我解释这一点的人。
How do I know if I am metabolically flexible, and how do I increase my metabolic flexibility?
我如何知道我的新陈代谢是否灵活，以及如何提高我的代谢灵活性？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
There's no specific standard, which is actually a good thing.
没有具体的标准，这实际上是一件好事。
And so if you have a level of specificity that you want or need metabolically, then you don't actually want to be in this middle ground.
因此，如果您在新陈代谢方面想要或需要一定程度的特异性，那么您实际上并不希望处于这种中间立场。
An example would be if you are performing in a type of exercise or an athlete who performs in a sport that is glycolytically dominated, you don't want to be optimally metabolically flexible.
一个例子是，如果您正在进行某种类型的运动，或者运动员正在进行以糖酵解为主的运动，那么您不希望达到最佳的代谢灵活性。
You don't want to be super "fat adapted." You want to be biased towards the energy you're going to use.
你不想成为超级“肥胖适应者”。你希望对你将要使用的能量有偏见。
The same could be true for the other end of the spectrum.
对于光谱的另一端来说也是如此。
So in those particular cases, it's not optimal to be equally effective because there are no free passes in physiology.
因此，在这些特殊情况下，同样有效并不是最佳选择，因为生理学上不存在自由通行证。
Your energy-producing systems will upregulate or down-regulate accordingly.
您的能量产生系统将相应地上调或下调。
So you will actually limit your ability to, say, maximally utilize carbohydrate as a fuel if you're trying to upregulate your ability to use fat as a fuel.
因此，如果您试图提高使用脂肪作为燃料的能力，那么实际上会限制您最大限度地利用碳水化合物作为燃料的能力。
And so there's a saturation point.
所以存在一个饱和点。
Outside of that spectrum, most people would just say, "Hey, I want to feel great throughout the day to be able to do a bunch of different things." How do you know?
在这个范围之外，大多数人只会说：“嘿，我希望一整天都感觉很棒，能够做很多不同的事情。”你怎么知道？
A couple of things.
有几件事。
There's a lot of biological markers you can take.
您可以采用很多生物标记。
There's also just some practical takes.
还有一些实际需要。
Now, none of these markers by themselves are any sign.
现在，这些标记本身都没有任何迹象。
What you want to do is probably a couple of them and then say, "Okay, this is maybe a clue." So again, it's really important to emphasize, not a single one of these tests that I'm about to walk you through automatically means you can't use fat as a fuel or the other case, which is maybe you're poor at using carbohydrate as a fuel.
你想做的可能是其中几个，然后说：“好吧，这也许是一条线索。”因此，再次强调，非常重要的是，我将引导您自动完成的这些测试中，没有一个意味着您不能使用脂肪作为燃料，或者另一种情况，即您可能不擅长使用碳水化合物作为燃料。
So disclaimers aside, we'll get into a couple of them.
因此，除了免责声明之外，我们将讨论其中的几个。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So should we think about these as informative and useful, but not diagnostic?
那么我们是否应该将这些视为信息丰富且有用的，而不是诊断性的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly.
正是如此。
We would call this data-inspired or data-led and not data-driven.
我们将其称为数据启发或数据主导，而不是数据驱动。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, cool.
好吧，酷。
So number one, you want to think about just overall functionality.
因此，第一，您需要考虑整体功能。
Do you have a reasonable regulation of your energy throughout the day?
你全天的精力有合理的调节吗？
Now, many things could be going into this, which is why these are not specific diagnostics, but as a basic measure, we talked about blood glucose levels.
现在，可能涉及很多事情，这就是为什么这些不是具体的诊断，但作为基本措施，我们讨论了血糖水平。
A lot of people will say, again, you want that to be something like between 80 and 90 milligrams per deciliter is the blood glucose level.
很多人会再次说，您希望血糖水平在每分升 80 到 90 毫克之间。
And you can go look at the cutoff points for what determines to be pre-diabetic and type 2 diabetic, et cetera.
您可以查看确定糖尿病前期和 2 型糖尿病等的分界点。
What I can actually recommend, there's a little bit of science here, actually, that I'll talk you through, but a lot of this is my personal preference.
我实际上可以推荐的是，实际上，这里有一些科学知识，我会向您详细介绍，但其中很多都是我个人的偏好。
I generally want people to be at 85 or lower, and that's because of a couple of things.
我通常希望人们的得分为 85 或更低，这是因为以下几个原因。
Number one, there's actually some papers that showed every single point increase above 85 increases your likelihood of developing type 2 diabetes by about 6%.
第一，实际上有一些论文表明，每增加一点超过 85 分，患 2 型糖尿病的可能性就会增加约 6%。
Okay, great.
好的，太好了。
So technically, while maybe 90 or 95 or even up to 100 are in the "normative values," that's one clue.
因此，从技术上讲，虽然 90 或 95 甚至最多 100 可能属于“规范值”，但这只是一条线索。
Again, it's not definitive by itself.
同样，它本身并不是确定的。
It doesn't mean anything.
这没有任何意义。
You need to really pay attention to what increasing by 6% actually means.
您需要真正关注增加 6% 的实际含义。
But it's a data point where I'm looking at.
但这是我正在查看的数据点。
If I actually then see symptomology, and we run you through maybe some questionnaires, ask how you're feeling throughout the day, and we see uncontrolled energy bouts, so a lot of energy, then you get really, really tired and swings.
如果我真的看到了症状，我们可能会给你做一些调查问卷，询问你一整天的感觉如何，我们会看到不受控制的能量发作，如此大量的能量，然后你会变得非常非常疲倦和摇摆不定。
Okay, another data point.
好吧，另一个数据点。
And we may patch a few of these things together.
我们可以将其中一些东西修补在一起。
That may give me some clues.
这可能会给我一些线索。
That being said, again, a lot of this rhetoric is used to then scare people off of carbohydrates, and I want to be as clear as possible, that is not truly the only thing people should care about.
话虽这么说，很多这样的言论都是用来吓唬人们远离碳水化合物的，我想尽可能清楚地表明，这并不是人们真正应该关心的唯一事情。
It can be a thing.
它可以是一件事。
It can also be unrelated.
也可以是不相关的。
There are reasons you could have blood glucose concentrations at this level or energy swings that are unrelated to carbohydrate ingestion at all.
血糖浓度达到这个水平或能量波动的原因可能与碳水化合物的摄入无关。
So one test you can have run In addition to that, if you're going to get blood glucose measured, you can look at some markers we talked about earlier, which are AST and ALT.
因此，您可以进行一项测试 除此之外，如果您要测量血糖，您可以查看我们之前讨论过的一些标记物，即 AST 和 ALT。
We talked about how you can kind of look at that AST to ALT ratio before.
我们之前讨论过如何查看 AST 与 ALT 的比率。
You can actually do the inverse, which is look at ALT and AST.
实际上，您可以进行相反的操作，即查看 ALT 和 AST。
The kind of normative value there you're going to look at is 0.8.
您将看到的标准值是 0.8。
I actually like to see it lower than that.
我实际上喜欢看到它低于这个值。
And that alone has been actually associated with blood glucose dysregulation.
仅这一点实际上就与血糖失调有关。
And so if you see multiple of these signs, again, we're looking for patterns and patterns and patterns in both, in our case, biomarkers, symptomology, and performance.
因此，如果您再次看到这些迹象中的多个，我们就会在生物标志物、症状学和表现方面寻找模式和模式。
And now if all three of those things are lining up, you may have an issue.
现在，如果所有这三件事都一致，那么您可能会遇到问题。
So performance-wise, a couple of little tests you can run.
因此，就性能而言，您可以运行一些小测试。
Ideally, you have some sort of standard workout you do, oh, and hopefully it's pretty objective.
理想情况下，你有某种标准的锻炼，哦，希望它是相当客观的。
So in other words, like, "I run the same 15-minute loop every morning for my cardio." Oh, okay.
换句话说，“我每天早上都会进行同样的 15 分钟循环来进行有氧运动。”哦好的。
Great.
伟大的。
How long does it take you to run that loop?
您运行该循环需要多长时间？
You could pick whatever distance.
你可以选择任何距离。
It doesn't really matter.
这并不重要。
What's your heart rate during that thing, and then what's your perceived exertion?
在那件事期间你的心率是多少，然后你感知到的运动量是多少？
Now, you should be able to do that fasted with very little drop in performance.
现在，您应该能够在禁食的情况下做到这一点，并且性能几乎不会下降。
Okay?
好的？
If you can do that, then that tells me you're fairly good at using fat as a fuel source.
如果你能做到这一点，那就告诉我你相当擅长使用脂肪作为燃料来源。
If, however, the one day you go to do your standard workout and you feel awful fasting, that may be another clue that perhaps you're not very good at dialing in that system.
然而，如果有一天你去做标准锻炼时，你感觉禁食很糟糕，这可能是另一个线索，表明你可能不太擅长调用该系统。
If your recovery afterwards, in terms of heart rate recovery, is very long, it may be another clue that you have a poor utilization of fat as a fuel source.
如果您之后的恢复（就心率恢复而言）很长，这可能是您未能充分利用脂肪作为燃料来源的另一个线索。
The inverse can also be true.
反之亦然。
So if I give you something in the neighborhood of 50 or so grams of carbohydrate, and 30 minutes later your face is falling off the table, that's a good sign that you're in the opposite.
因此，如果我给你提供大约 50 克左右的碳水化合物，而 30 分钟后你的脸从桌子上掉下来，这是一个好迹象，表明你的情况正好相反。
You're actually very, very, very poor at utilizing carbohydrate as a fuel.
事实上，你非常非常不善于利用碳水化合物作为燃料。
And the reason I bring that up is that is equally a problem.
我提出这个问题的原因是这同样是一个问题。
We hear people a lot make comments like, "Man, I have to stay away from carbs.
我们经常听到人们这样评论：“伙计，我必须远离碳水化合物。
I crash really hard if I do them." What that actually means is you're very poor at utilizing carbohydrates as fuel.
如果我这么做的话，我会崩溃得很厉害。”这实际上意味着你非常不善于利用碳水化合物作为燃料。
Your sensitivity is way off.
你的敏感度差太远了
We should be able to have carbohydrate at a reasonable dosage, 50 grams, and not fall asleep 30 minutes later or have to run to caffeine.
我们应该能够摄入合理剂量的碳水化合物，即 50 克，并且不会在 30 分钟后入睡或不得不摄入咖啡因。
So that is a sign, in our opinion, this is again now just my practical brain telling you, is that's a sign of dysfunction.
所以，在我们看来，这是一个迹象，这又是我的实际大脑告诉你的，这是功能障碍的迹象。
We should be able to have plenty of carbohydrates through the day if we choose to, if we want to, for any reason.
如果我们出于任何原因选择、愿意的话，我们一天中应该能够摄入充足的碳水化合物。
Now, of course, if you were to throw 150 or 200 grams of carbohydrate in your belly, you're probably going to take a little bit of an energy hit after that, but we should be able to have a reasonable dosage and not have to fall asleep afterwards.
当然，如果你往肚子里摄入 150 或 200 克碳水化合物，之后你的能量可能会受到一些影响，但我们应该能够有一个合理的剂量，而且之后不必入睡。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
What is one way that people can enhance their utilization of carbohydrates for exercise?
人们可以提高碳水化合物在运动中的利用率的一种方法是什么？
The reason I ask is I think I fall into that category.
我问这个问题的原因是我认为我属于这一类。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I do consume some complex carbohydrates and fruit post-resistance training.
我确实在抗阻训练后摄入了一些复合碳水化合物和水果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And that tends to be when I'm hungriest for them.
这往往是我最想吃它们的时候。
But typically, unless I've just done some resistance training, I keep most of my daytime meals relatively low carbohydrate, and then in the evening, I prefer slightly less protein and more carbohydrate because it has this effect of sedating me a little bit.
但通常情况下，除非我刚刚做了一些阻力训练，否则我白天的大部分膳食都会保持相对较低的碳水化合物含量，然后在晚上，我更喜欢稍微少一点的蛋白质和更多的碳水化合物，因为它有让我稍微镇静的作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And I sleep well.
我睡得很好。
And I know this runs against what everyone was taught, which is to not eat carbohydrates late in the day.
我知道这违背了每个人都被教导的，那就是不要在一天晚些时候吃碳水化合物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, no, no, no.
哦，不，不，不。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
But I like it because then I tend to wake up in the morning with, at least as far as I can tell, my glycogen stores not necessarily topped off, but certainly filled.
但我喜欢它，因为这样我早上醒来时，至少据我所知，我的糖原储备不一定达到顶峰，但肯定是充满的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And I'm able to train fasted in the morning, and my favorite pre-workout consists of water and caffeine and electrolytes, and maybe some supplementation as well.
我可以在早上禁食训练，我最喜欢的训练前食物包括水、咖啡因和电解质，也许还有一些补充剂。
But I love training fasted.
但我喜欢禁食训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there's actually a number of things.
所以实际上有很多事情。
One little sneaky thing you threw in there is actually the use of caffeine.
你放在那里的一个小鬼祟的东西实际上是咖啡因的使用。
So that's another sign.
这是另一个迹象。
If you have to have caffeine to do your fasted training, that's generally another sign you're not very good at using fuel.
如果你必须摄入咖啡因来进行禁食训练，这通常是你不擅长使用燃料的另一个迹象。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So I use caffeine prior to resistance training workouts.
所以我在阻力训练之前使用咖啡因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Generally, I don't need it for any kind of cardiovascular training.
一般来说，我不需要它来进行任何类型的心血管训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
And when I say that, it doesn't mean it's bad.
当我这么说时，并不意味着它很糟糕。
It's just another clue that's like, okay, you should be able to do this without having to have caffeine to execute it.
这只是另一条线索，好吧，你应该能够做到这一点，而无需咖啡因来执行它。
Now, using caffeine to get a better result is sort of different as an ergogenic aid.
现在，使用咖啡因来获得更好的效果与作为一种增效剂有所不同。
We actually use a lot of high carbohydrate meals at the end of the day, a lot of the times for our athletes who are cutting weight or trying to reduce weight.
事实上，我们在一天结束时会吃很多高碳水化合物的食物，很多时候是为了我们正在减肥或试图减肥的运动员。
So it is a fantastic way to handle a lot of things.
所以这是处理很多事情的绝佳方式。
And that idea that if you eat carbs late at night, that'll increase fat.
如果你在深夜吃碳水化合物，就会增加脂肪。
So that all is so old, and so well destroyed scientifically, that's not a concern.
因此，一切都那么古老，并且被科学地彻底摧毁，这不是一个问题。
There's just so much data showing...
这么多数据表明...
In fact, there's so much data on eating timing is generally poorly understood about when you can eat and what you can't eat.
事实上，关于进食时间的数据太多，但人们普遍对什么时候可以吃什么不能吃什么了解甚少。
Eating in the morning versus eating at night, a lot of what we've heard in there is dumb, and maybe we just save that for sort of another day because we're going to get really far down in this.
早上吃东西和晚上吃东西，我们听到的很多东西都是愚蠢的，也许我们只是把它留到另一天，因为我们会在这方面走得很远。
Or we can dive into it, but-
或者我们可以深入研究它，但是-
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
So I think our plan-
所以我认为我们的计划-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
is to cover that in an episode on nutrition-
是在有关营养的一集中介绍这一点-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, great
好的，太好了
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
which is in this series.
这是这个系列中的。
The only thing that I would add to it is when you hear about ingesting carbohydrate late at night, I should just say that, at least in my case, I'm eating the majority of my carbohydrate unless I trained-
我唯一要补充的是，当你听说在深夜摄入碳水化合物时，我应该说，至少就我而言，我正在吃大部分碳水化合物，除非我训练-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
resistance trained early in the day, in which case, I post resistance training, in the last meal of the day.
在当天早些时候进行阻力训练，在这种情况下，我会在当天的最后一餐进行阻力训练。
But for me, that's not really late at night.
但对我来说，那并不是真正的深夜。
That last meal is somewhere between 6:30 and 7:30 PM.
最后一顿饭是在下午 6:30 到 7:30 之间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it's three or so hours or something like that before-
所以已经过去了三个小时左右或者类似的时间-
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
I go to sleep around 10:00, 10:30 or so.
我在10:00、10:30左右睡觉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So it's not midnight bowls of pasta.
所以这不是半夜的意大利面。
I've done that, too.
我也这么做过。
But-
但是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
You can
你可以
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
typically it's not.
通常情况并非如此。
So I think that people will be very interested, myself included, in how meal timing relates to all of this.
因此，我认为人们（包括我自己）会对进餐时间与所有这些之间的关系非常感兴趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
But yeah, let's
但是，是的，让我们
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So how do you improve fat utilization?
那么如何提高脂肪利用率呢？
How do you improve carbohydrate utilization?
如何提高碳水化合物的利用率？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's hammer both out really quickly.
让我们快速解决这两个问题。
Enhancing fat utilization is as simple as doing a little bit of work in either pre-fat ingested state.
提高脂肪利用率就像在脂肪摄入前状态下做一点工作一样简单。
So any time you ingest a nutrient prior to training, you're going to bias towards that nutrient.
因此，每当您在训练前摄入某种营养素时，您都会偏向于该营养素。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Which is almost what we were talking about earlier.
这几乎就是我们之前讨论的内容。
So if you want to guarantee you burn more fat, eat more fat prior to a workout.
因此，如果您想保证燃烧更多脂肪，请在锻炼前摄入更多脂肪。
Now you're not going to lose fat, but what you're effectively signaling is we have an overabundance of this fuel, preferentially target this fuel.
现在你不会减掉脂肪，但你有效地发出信号是我们的这种燃料过多，优先针对这种燃料。
Now, the downside is that may actually hinder your performance.
现在，缺点是这实际上可能会影响你的表现。
That's typically only a concern for people at a very high level.
这通常只是高层人士才会关心的问题。
Fat is a slower fuel source.
脂肪是一种较慢的燃料来源。
So if you're relying more upon that, your top end is going to come down a little bit, and so you wouldn't want to use that strategy prior to a race if it is a carbohydrate-dependent race.
因此，如果您更多地依赖于此，您的最高成绩将会下降一点，因此如果这是一场依赖碳水化合物的比赛，您就不会想在比赛前使用该策略。
All right.
好的。
And in fact, we actually see long-term adaptations that would suggest that.
事实上，我们确实看到了表明这一点的长期适应。
So the enzymes responsible for carbohydrate metabolism will down-regulate, and so you'll get worse at that.
因此，负责碳水化合物代谢的酶将会下调，因此你的情况会变得更糟。
So not a great strategy there.
所以这不是一个很好的策略。
Carbohydrate would be the opposite, right?
碳水化合物则相反，对吗？
So if you have carbohydrate prior to exercise, you're going to bias more towards that.
因此，如果你在运动前摄入碳水化合物，你就会更倾向于摄入碳水化合物。
So a handful of things you can do.
所以你可以做一些事情。
If your total caloric intake is simply managed, that's going to take care of a lot of these problems.
如果你能简单地控制总热量摄入，那么很多问题就可以解决。
An appropriate eating strategy, so the types of food, the combinations of food, all of those things are going to make your post-carbohydrate ingestion bunk.
适当的饮食策略，食物的类型、食物的组合，所有这些都会让你在摄入碳水化合物后保持健康。
A lot of those things can go away.
很多事情都可以消失。
So there's a little bit of physiology that has to be corrected for.
因此，有一些生理学问题需要纠正。
So it's a little bit-- In one hand, you can go very deep here, right?
所以有点——用一只手，你可以在这里走得很深，对吗？
So the real answer of how we would do this is if we see a scenario like that, we're going to do a whole set of analyses.
因此，我们如何做到这一点的真正答案是，如果我们看到这样的场景，我们将进行一整套分析。
We're going to go full labs, right?
我们要去完整的实验室，对吗？
Probably extensive blood panel, urine, saliva, stool even.
可能是广泛的血液检查、尿液、唾液、甚至粪便。
And we're going to figure out where is that glucose dysregulation coming from.
我们要找出葡萄糖失调的根源。
So a lot of people think like, "Oh, it's a metabolism issue." It might be.
所以很多人都会想，“哦，这是新陈代谢问题。”可能是这样。
It also might just be a flag that something else is happening in the body.
它也可能只是一个标志，表明体内正在发生其他事情。
So we're going to actually work backwards a lot to try to figure out exactly why that's occurring.
因此，我们实际上将进行大量的反向工作，试图找出发生这种情况的确切原因。
It may be as simple as, oh, you're eating a lot of your carbohydrates without any fiber or protein.
这可能很简单，哦，你吃了很多碳水化合物，但没有任何纤维或蛋白质。
And we know that that's important because those will actually blunt the glycemic index, like the rise in blood glucose.
我们知道这很重要，因为这些实际上会降低血糖指数，例如血糖的上升。
So it could be a simple thing of just like, oh, your combination of food is doing it.
所以这可能是一件简单的事情，就像，哦，你的食物组合正在做到这一点。
It's not the total amount.
这不是总金额。
It may be something, again, more endogenous to the actual system.
再说一次，它可能是实际系统更内生的东西。
It could be a heart rate issue.
可能是心率问题。
It could be a breathing issue.
可能是呼吸问题。
It could be a number of things.
这可能有很多原因。
So the way to get better at it is to simply train it, and specificity is king here.
因此，提高它的方法就是简单地训练它，而特异性才是王道。
So if you want to get better at managing your blood glucose throughout the day so that you're not feeling those things, it could be a fuel issue, but it could be a number of other things, and it's just hard to go into all of them within our time constraint.
因此，如果您想更好地管理全天的血糖，这样您就不会感觉到这些事情，这可能是一个燃料问题，但也可能是许多其他问题，而且很难在我们的时间限制内讨论所有这些问题。
So the practical tool that I would say here is if you want to get better at managing energy throughout the day, make sure that, number one, your protein is stabilized.
因此，我在这里要说的实用工具是，如果您想更好地管理全天的能量，请确保第一，您的蛋白质稳定。
Making sure, number two, you're ingesting your food in the right combinations, ideally with some fiber and/or some protein or both.
第二，确保您以正确的组合摄入食物，最好是含有一些纤维和/或一些蛋白质或两者兼而有之。
That alone will help stabilize a lot of the problems.
仅此一点就有助于解决很多问题。
Then you need to train at a high intensity.
那么你需要进行高强度的训练。
You want to get better at using carbohydrates as a fuel, train at a higher intensity, and have carbohydrates right before the workout.
您想要更好地使用碳水化合物作为燃料，进行更高强度的训练，并在锻炼前摄入碳水化合物。
We'll do that a lot if we see folks who are-- I kind of walked you through the test of identifying if you're not very good at using fat as a fuel.
如果我们看到有人是这样的，我们会经常这样做——我带你完成了一项测试，以确定你是否不太擅长使用脂肪作为燃料。
The test for not being good at using carbohydrate as a fuel is both that eating test I talked about as well as performance.
不擅长使用碳水化合物作为燃料的测试既是我谈到的饮食测试，也是表现。
If you're a very slow starter, it's just really hard to get going, that generally indicates you might be in a situation where you're not very good at using carbohydrates as fuel.
如果你的起步速度非常慢，那么就很难继续前进，这通常表明你可能不太擅长使用碳水化合物作为燃料。
So we're going to practice that.
所以我们要练习一下。
We're going to have a pre-exercise carbohydrate meal, then we're going to do higher intensity stuff.
我们将在运动前吃一顿碳水化合物餐，然后我们将做更高强度的事情。
Not to the point of making you sick and digestive issues, all that stuff, but we want to get better at using carbohydrates as a fuel faster.
并不是到让你生病和消化问题之类的程度，但我们希望更快地更好地使用碳水化合物作为燃料。
If you want to get better at doing the opposite, then you do that opposite strategy.
如果你想更好地做相反的事情，那么你就采取相反的策略。
Either, again, using fat prior to the workout, knowing your peak performance is going to go down a little bit, but you're investing in adaptation, right?
或者，再一次，在锻炼前使用脂肪，知道你的最佳表现会有所下降，但你正在投资适应，对吗？
So it's not about that workout, it's about what's going to happen six, eight, 10 weeks from now.
所以这不是关于训练，而是关于从现在起六周、八周、十周后将会发生的事情。
Investment is the way you want to think about it.
投资是你想要的思考方式。
Or you could bring in some fasted training.
或者你可以进行一些禁食训练。
And so I want to really make sure I clarify, when we were talking about it earlier, I'm not at all against fasted training.
所以我想澄清一下，当我们之前讨论这个问题时，我一点也不反对禁食训练。
It works.
有用。
It just isn't required for fat loss.
它只是减肥所不需要的。
It isn't required for fat adaptation.
它不是脂肪适应所必需的。
It is a great option, though, if you want.
不过，如果您愿意的话，这是一个不错的选择。
What I was hoping to do with that conversation, and maybe I didn't articulate that well, is to not restrict people, but is to open you up and to let you see you have a lot of options.
我希望通过这次谈话做的事情（也许我表达得不太好）是不要限制人们，而是让你敞开心扉，让你看到你有很多选择。
If you like to do fasted cardio, amazing.
如果你喜欢空腹有氧运动，那就太棒了。
It is great.
太棒了。
If you hate it, you don't have to.
如果你讨厌它，你就不必这样做。
You can reach the same performance goals, the same physique goals without ever doing it.
您无需做任何事情就可以达到相同的表现目标、相同的体格目标。
If you love long-duration steady state stuff, it is great.
如果您喜欢长期稳定状态的东西，那就太棒了。
If you hate it, there are other options.
如果你讨厌它，还有其他选择。
Higher intensity stuff.
强度更高的东西。
Again, if we're just talking about fat loss.
再说一遍，如果我们只是谈论减肥。
So I hope now that that's a little clearer in terms of the same thing with nutrition.
所以我现在希望对于营养方面的同样的事情能更清楚一些。
If you like higher carb, great.
如果你喜欢高碳水化合物，那就太好了。
If you like lower carb, these are all great.
如果你喜欢低碳水化合物，这些都很棒。
You have options, and you don't have to fret so much over, "Oh my gosh, I have to do this thing a certain way, and I absolutely hate it." You don't have to worry about it.
你有选择，你不必担心太多，“天哪，我必须以某种方式做这件事，我绝对讨厌它。”你不必担心它。
Hit those concepts and you'll be fine.
掌握这些概念，你就会没事的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
A few minutes ago, you mentioned that if we ingest a given macronutrient like fat, then the body will preferentially use that fuel source.
几分钟前，您提到，如果我们摄入特定的常量营养素（例如脂肪），那么身体将优先使用该燃料来源。
If you ingest carbohydrate, it will use that fuel source.
如果你摄入碳水化合物，它就会使用该燃料来源。
Is it always the case that the body uses the ingested macronutrient prior to using glycogen?
身体是否总是在使用糖原之前先使用摄入的大量营养素？
I have to imagine it's using both.
我必须想象它同时使用两者。
If I were to have some carbohydrate before doing any kind of training, the muscles still burn glycogen, right?
如果我在进行任何类型的训练之前摄入一些碳水化合物，肌肉仍然会燃烧糖原，对吗？
Or do they have some way to register the amount of circulating carbohydrate that would allow or available carbohydrate in the form of foodstuffs-
或者他们是否有某种方法来记录循环碳水化合物的量，从而允许或可用食品形式的碳水化合物-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
That would allow them to not tap into their own muscle fiber stores of glycogen.
这将使他们无法利用自己的肌纤维储存的糖原。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All right.
好吧。
So the way we derive energy for exercise or basic maintenance.
所以我们获取能量用于锻炼或基本维护的方式。
A little bit about cellular physiology.
关于细胞生理学的一些知识。
So you've got a couple of organelle and structures that we need to pay attention to.
所以我们需要注意一些细胞器和结构。
The first one is the nucleus.
第一个是核心。
That holds your DNA.
那保存着你的 DNA。
The second one is the mitochondria.
第二个是线粒体。
And then everything outside of that, you've got all these other organelle that do a bunch of things like ribosomes for protein synthesis, et cetera.
除此之外，还有所有其他细胞器，它们可以做很多事情，例如用于蛋白质合成的核糖体，等等。
All right.
好的。
Now, when you want to produce energy for exercise, anytime you hear the word anaerobic, you automatically understand we are meaning without oxygen.
现在，当您想要产生运动所需的能量时，每当您听到无氧这个词时，您都会自动理解我们的意思是无氧。
All right, great.
好吧，太好了。
That all happens in the cytoplasm.
这一切都发生在细胞质中。
The cytoplasm is that space that is not the mitochondria, not the nucleus.
细胞质是不是线粒体，也不是细胞核的空间。
So it's the space in between everything else.
所以它是其他一切之间的空间。
This is like jelly-like substance that sounds there.
这就像果冻一样的物质在那里发出声音。
So anaerobic metabolism happens there.
所以无氧代谢发生在那里。
Every single aerobic metabolic process happens in the mitochondria.
每个有氧代谢过程都发生在线粒体中。
All right.
好的。
Why is that important?
为什么这很重要？
If I go to create cellular energy and I need it the fastest possible, I'm going to go for phosphocreatine because it is stored directly in the cytoplasm.
如果我要创造细胞能量并且我需要尽可能快的速度，我会选择磷酸肌酸，因为它直接储存在细胞质中。
The stoichiometry is one to one there, which means for every mole of phosphocreatine I burn, I can create one ATP.
那里的化学计量是一比一的，这意味着我每燃烧一摩尔磷酸肌酸，就可以产生一个 ATP。
It's one to one.
这是一对一的。
It is incredibly fast, but it is very limited because think about it, how much of that could I possibly store in the small size of the cell?
它的速度快得令人难以置信，但它非常有限，因为想一想，我可以在小尺寸的单元中存储多少内容？
That's it.
就是这样。
If I need energy past that point, now I'll start using muscle glycogen because that is also stored in the cytoplasm.
如果我需要超过该点的能量，现在我将开始使用肌糖原，因为它也存储在细胞质中。
So it is right there.
所以它就在那里。
The stoichiometry is not one to one.
化学计量不是一对一的。
It's a little bit higher, probably like four to one.
稍微高一点，大概是四比一。
So for every molecule of glycogen you burn, you're going to get something like four-ish, some small number of ATP out of that, which is great.
因此，对于你燃烧的每一个糖原分子，你都会从中得到大约四分子的少量 ATP，这很棒。
But again, you're running into a storage problem.
但同样，您遇到了存储问题。
How much can I possibly store inside a muscle cell?
肌肉细胞内可以储存多少能量？
It is very, very fast, much more effective than phosphocreatine, but so there.
它非常非常快，比磷酸肌酸有效得多，但就是这样。
If I then want to metabolize any form of fat, or if I want to complete the metabolization of carbohydrates, I have to start transferring into the mitochondria.
如果我想代谢任何形式的脂肪，或者如果我想完成碳水化合物的代谢，我必须开始转移到线粒体中。
Now, I start getting whole hosts of ATP.
现在，我开始获得完整的 ATP 宿主。
If you were to fully run through this thing, which I'll talk about in a second, called the TCA cycle or Krebs cycle, you'll get now something like 28 or 30 or 35, kind of depending, ATP per.
如果你要完全完成这个东西，我稍后会讨论，称为 TCA 循环或克雷布斯循环，你现在会得到类似于 28 或 30 或 35 的东西，具体取决于 ATP 每。
So the energetic output is much higher.
所以能量输出要高得多。
Okay, so here's exactly what happens.
好吧，这就是发生的事情。
And I'm going to walk you through this in the form of carbohydrate, and then I'll come backwards and go through fat.
我将以碳水化合物的形式向您介绍这一点，然后我将回顾脂肪。
So remember, carbohydrate.
所以记住，碳水化合物。
It is one carbon molecule that has been hydrated.
它是一种已水合的碳分子。
So it is one to one.
所以这是一对一的。
So the actual chemistry here, it is CH2O, one carbon, two H, one O.
所以这里的实际化学成分是 CH2O、一个碳、两个氢、一个氧。
Glucose is a six-carbon chain.
葡萄糖是六碳链。
So the chemistry here is C6, H12, O6.
所以这里的化学成分是 C6、H12、O6。
Six carbons, six waters.
六个碳，六个水。
Very simple.
很简单。
That's a carbohydrate.
那是一种碳水化合物。
All right.
好的。
So you can imagine if you're watching on the video here, you'll see my fingers going now.
所以你可以想象，如果你正在观看这里的视频，你会看到我的手指现在在移动。
So I'll try to make sure I explain it to you all just listening in an easy fashion.
因此，我将尽力确保以轻松的方式向大家解释。
So you've got this chain of six carbons that is in front of you.
所以你面前有这个由六个碳组成的链。
And the very first step to metabolism is you snap that thing in half.
新陈代谢的第一步就是把它分成两半。
So you break it into two separate three-carbon chains.
所以你把它分成两个独立的三碳链。
All right?
好的？
Now, in doing that, you got a little bit of energy because you broke that one bond, but not a tremendous amount.
现在，在这样做的过程中，你获得了一点能量，因为你打破了那个键，但不是大量的能量。
This is called glycolysis.
这称为糖酵解。
So lysis being the split and glyce being glyce.
所以裂解是分裂，甘油是甘油。
You split glycogen up, got a little bit of energy out of that.
你分解糖原，从中获得一点能量。
All right?
好的？
You form this three-carbon chain called pyruvate or pyruvic acid, okay?
你形成了这个称为丙酮酸或丙酮酸的三碳链，好吗？
There's differences there, but don't kill me.
那里有差异，但别杀我。
General audience, friends.
广大观众朋友们。
All right?
好的？
I got to communicate this to everybody.
我必须向每个人传达这一点。
So you got a little bit of that.
所以你得到了一点点。
Now you can't do much past that besides rip one more carbon off of each of those three-carbon chains.
现在除了从每条三碳链上再撕下一个碳之外，你不能做太多事情。
So I've got two three-carbon chains.
所以我有两条三碳链。
I'd have to be careful how I do this with my fingers so I don't flip you off here in a second.
我必须小心我用手指做这件事，这样我才不会立刻让你失望。
But I burn one more off of each.
但我每样都再烧掉一个。
I get a little bit of energy, and now that little two-carbon chain, I have two two-carbon chains.
我得到了一点能量，现在那个小二碳链，我有两条二碳链。
Those are called acetyl-CoA.
这些被称为乙酰辅酶A。
All right, amazing.
好吧，太棒了。
I have now completed anaerobic glycolysis.
我现在已经完成无氧糖酵解。
I've got really nothing left I can do here.
我在这里真的没什么可做的了。
I made a little bit of ATP.
我制造了一点 ATP。
Now, wait a minute.
现在，等一下。
I have now freed two carbons because remember I started with six and I split them apart, but I had two three-carbon chains.
我现在释放了两个碳，因为记得我一开始有六个碳，然后我把它们分开，但我有两个三碳链。
I burned one each and I've got two free-floating carbons.
我每人烧了一根，得到了两根自由漂浮的碳。
I have to now do something with them.
我现在必须和他们一起做点什么。
My body will not let me go through that last process unless I've got a plan for that free carbon because I can't break it in half.
我的身体不会让我经历最后的过程，除非我有一个关于游离碳的计划，因为我无法将它分成两半。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amazing.
太棒了。
Here's what's going to happen.
这就是将要发生的事情。
If I have those three carbon molecules and I don't have anywhere I can put that carbon, you're not going to go through that process.
如果我有这三个碳分子，但我没有地方可以放置这些碳，那么你就不会经历这个过程。
It's going to stop it.
它会阻止它。
You're going to start building up pyruvate.
你将开始积累丙酮酸。
Now, at the same time, you're breaking ATP for fuel.
现在，与此同时，您正在破坏 ATP 以获取燃料。
That's called ATP hydrolysis, right?
这就是所谓的 ATP 水解，对吗？
You have water that comes in, you have an adenosine, and three phosphates.
你有水进来，有一个腺苷和三个磷酸盐。
That's why it's called ATP, adenosine triphosphate, one, two, three.
这就是为什么它被称为 ATP、三磷酸腺苷、一、二、三。
You break one of those phosphates off.
你把其中一个磷酸盐折断。
There you go.
就这样吧。
There's your energy.
这就是你的能量。
So now you have a free-floating inorganic phosphate and an adenosine diphosphate, so two over there.
现在你有了自由漂浮的无机磷酸盐和二磷酸腺苷，所以那里有两个。
Amazing.
惊人的。
That actually results, because you used water for it, results in a free-floating hydrogen ion.
这实际上会产生一个自由漂浮的氢离子，因为你使用了水。
Okay?
好的？
You just have to trust me, hydrogen, H2O.
你只需要相信我，氢，H2O。
Hmm.
唔。
Any idea what a free-floating hydrogen is?
你知道自由漂浮的氢是什么吗？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
It's going to-
它将——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's acid.
那是酸。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah, I was going to say it's going to increase acidity.
是的，我想说它会增加酸度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's what acidity is.
这就是酸度。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
For anyone that's ever measured pH, what you're really measuring is the amount of hydrogen.
对于任何曾经测量过 pH 值的人来说，您真正测量的是氢的含量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Potential hydrogen.
潜在的氢。
That's what pH is, right?
这就是 pH 值，对吗？
100% or there's two definitions of pH, but you get it.
100% 或者 pH 值有两种定义，但你明白了。
That's one of the two.
这是两者之一。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So are you going to tell me this is related to the burn?
那你能告诉我这和烧伤有关吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We're going to get close.
我们即将接近。
So I've got a bunch of free-floating, you've got the phosphates, which are actually a problem, too, probably more of a problem than people realize, and that hydrogen.
所以我有一堆自由漂浮的磷酸盐，这实际上也是一个问题，可能比人们意识到的问题还要严重，还有氢。
What are you going to do with that hydrogen?
你打算用这些氢气做什么？
Well, one thing you can do is actually ship it over to pyruvate and bond it there.
好吧，你可以做的一件事就是实际上将其运送到丙酮酸并在那里粘合。
We have a special name for that little molecule when you have pyruvate and you have a hydrogen attached to it.
当丙酮酸上有一个氢时，我们对这个小分子有一个特殊的名称。
Do you know what it's called?
你知道它叫什么吗？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Hydrogen peroxide?
过氧化氢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Lactate.
乳酸。
Lactate, lactic acid.
乳酸盐，乳酸。
This is that whole system.
这就是整个系统。
Again, I'm skipping some steps, making a little bit of mistakes here intentionally, folks, just to make this assumed.
再说一遍，我跳过了一些步骤，故意犯了一些错误，伙计们，只是为了假设这一点。
So what happens when you start running a bunch of anaerobic glycolysis?
那么当你开始进行一系列无氧糖酵解时会发生什么？
You start seeing massive rises in lactate.
您开始看到乳酸大幅上升。
Cool.
凉爽的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Not lactic acid.
不是乳酸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
That's why we see associations between a lot of lactate and a lot of fatigue, but the lactate's actually not causing the fatigue.
这就是为什么我们看到大量乳酸和大量疲劳之间存在关联，但乳酸实际上并不是导致疲劳的原因。
The lactate is actually sparing you from having a bunch of free-floating-
乳酸实际上可以让你免于产生一堆自由漂浮的-
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
acid.
酸。
It also can be then used directly back in the muscle, because as soon as you bring in enough oxygen and you can take that hydrogen back off of it, you've now turned it right back into pyruvate, and you can run it through this whole cycle as fuel that I'm about to do.
然后它也可以直接在肌肉中使用，因为一旦你引入了足够的氧气，并且你可以将氢气从其中取出，你现在就将其重新转化为丙酮酸，并且你可以将其作为我即将要做的燃料贯穿整个循环。
You can actually ship it out of the exercising muscle and ship it into a non-exercising muscle and then go backwards and make glucose.
实际上，您可以将其从运动肌肉中运送到非运动肌肉中，然后返回并产生葡萄糖。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
What actually liberates hydrogen from lactate?
什么实际上从乳酸中释放出氢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You mean like chemically?
你的意思是像化学一样？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
So what are the stimuli that can take hydrogen off the pyruvate and-
那么什么刺激可以从丙酮酸中除去氢并且-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
and then, in other words, to reduce lactate and free up that hydrogen.
换句话说，然后减少乳酸并释放氢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oxygen availability.
氧气供应情况。
So in fact, one of the major places that you ship hydrogen to, or one of the major places that you ship lactate to is your heart, because it's what we call the ultimate slow-twitch fiber, and it has a ton of freely available mitochondria, which have a ton of access to oxygen, so it can actually then go to it, form water.
所以事实上，你输送氢气的主要地方之一，或者你输送乳酸的主要地方之一就是你的心脏，因为它是我们所说的终极慢肌纤维，它有大量可自由利用的线粒体，可以获取大量氧气，所以它实际上可以进入它，形成水。
The H2O can be used to form water, and now we have a place to store the hydrogen.
H2O可以用来形成水，现在我们有了储存氢气的地方。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Got it.
明白了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Cool.
凉爽的。
So as a result of anaerobic glycolysis, we have made a little bit of ATP.
因此，由于无氧糖酵解，我们产生了一点 ATP。
We've created a lot of waste, and we don't have anywhere to go with these end products.
我们制造了很多废物，而这些最终产品却无处可去。
So when you do anything of a higher intensity and it says, "I need energy fast," you're going to go to this system first, right past ATP, because it is the fastest place to get energy.
因此，当你做任何强度较高的事情时，它会说：“我需要快速获得能量”，你将首先进入这个系统，然后经过 ATP，因为它是获得能量最快的地方。
But you're not going to get much of it, and you've got to deal with the waste products.
但你不会得到太多，而且你必须处理废物。
Boom.
繁荣。
Right back to the beginning of our conversation.
回到我们谈话的开始。
Endurance is about two things, energy production and waste management.
耐力与两件事有关：能源生产和废物管理。
And we're right-- fatigue buffering.
我们是对的——疲劳缓冲。
This is it.
就是这样。
How well can you handle the elevations in hydrogen, drop in pH, and then what are you going to do with these products?
您能如何应对氢气升高和 pH 值下降，然后您将如何处理这些产品？
If you want to fully metabolize a carbohydrate, you then have to do something with those pyruvates or those acetyl-CoAs.
如果你想完全代谢碳水化合物，你就必须对那些丙酮酸盐或乙酰辅酶A采取一些措施。
What you're going to do, if oxygen is available, you will take those things and ship them into the mitochondria.
你要做的，如果有氧气，你就会把这些东西运送到线粒体中。
They have to go through some cell walls and some other things like that, but they're going to get inside there.
他们必须穿过一些细胞壁和其他类似的东西，但他们会进入那里。
Once they're in there, that two-carbon acetyl-CoA runs through this entire cycle that we call the Krebs cycle.
一旦它们进入那里，二碳乙酰辅酶A就会贯穿整个循环，我们称之为克雷布斯循环。
And that's this really interesting place.
这就是这个非常有趣的地方。
That's where B6 and NMN, that's where that whole stuff starts to kick in.
这就是 B6 和 NMN，这就是所有东西开始发挥作用的地方。
All your B vitamins basically run that entire circle.
所有 B 族维生素基本上都在整个循环中运行。
And you're going to start off at the top.
你将从顶部开始。
You have a bunch of fun stuff going on.
你有很多有趣的事情发生。
But as a part of that circle, you're going to pull off some of the hydrogen ions.
但作为这个循环的一部分，你会带走一些氢离子。
You're going to send these to what's called the electron transport chain.
你将把它们发送到所谓的电子传输链。
That's where you're going to get a ton of ATP out of.
这就是您可以获取大量 ATP 的地方。
And as a result, about halfway through the turn, you're going to pull off one carbon, and about halfway through the other, almost the other way through the finish, you're going to pull off the second carbon.
结果，大约在转弯的一半处，你将拉下一个碳，而在另一个的大约一半处，几乎在终点的另一条路上，你将拉下第二个碳。
So you're going to take the second acetyl-CoA, run that entire thing same through as well.
因此，您将采用第二个乙酰辅酶A，也以同样的方式运行整个过程。
And so what we did is we started off with a six-carbon glucose chain.
所以我们所做的就是从六碳葡萄糖链开始。
We split it in half.
我们把它分成两半。
We call those pyruvate.
我们称之为丙酮酸。
Made a little bit of energy because we broke that one bond of those two carbons that are in the middle.
产生了一点能量，因为我们打破了中间两个碳的一个键。
Cool.
凉爽的。
Those two three-carbon molecules, we pulled one carbon off of each.
这两个三碳分子，我们从每个分子中取出一个碳。
We moved those into the mitochondria.
我们将它们转移到线粒体中。
We brought one off.
我们拿走了一件。
We took a breath, brought in some oxygen, bonded that breath, took out two CO2 exhales.
我们吸了一口气，吸入了一些氧气，结合了呼吸，呼出了两次二氧化碳。
We ran the acetyl-CoA through the Krebs cycle.
我们通过克雷布斯循环运行乙酰辅酶A。
One, two carbons per turn coming out as CO2, so we had six carbons total as we started, and we exited with zero carbons.
一、每轮有两个碳以二氧化碳的形式释放出来，所以我们一开始就有六个碳，最后我们的碳为零。
Now we have fully metabolized a molecule of carbohydrate.
现在我们已经完全代谢了一个碳水化合物分子。
That required an anaerobic start and an aerobic finish.
这需要无氧开始和有氧结束。
If you don't have a lot of mitochondria, large mitochondria, high-functioning mitochondria, you're going to limit your anaerobic performance because you're going to run that door full very quickly.
如果你没有大量的线粒体、大的线粒体、高功能的线粒体，你就会限制你的无氧表现，因为你很快就会满门。
You can't go past it because hydrogen will build up way too fast, and one of the things that we know is both temperature and pH run enzyme function.
你不能越过它，因为氢会积聚得太快，而我们知道的一件事是温度和 pH 值都会影响酶的功能。
So they're going to stop.
所以他们会停下来。
You won't even be able to run through, in fact, that ATP hydrolysis phase.
事实上，您甚至无法完成 ATP 水解阶段。
Even if I gave you a whole infinite supply of ATP, if I put enough acid in there, it would stop working because the ATPase enzyme needed to split, it won't be able to run in a highly acidic environment or a hot environment.
即使我给你无限量的 ATP，如果我在里面放了足够的酸，它就会停止工作，因为 ATPase 需要分裂，它无法在高酸性环境或炎热环境中运行。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
At some point, perhaps today, perhaps in a future discussion, but still not too far from now, we could talk about the role of temperature-
在某个时候，也许是今天，也许在未来的讨论中，但离现在不远了，我们可以谈论温度的作用——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
in pyruvate in terms of its regulation of muscle contraction.
丙酮酸对肌肉收缩的调节。
But I want to make sure I understood something correctly.
但我想确保我理解正确。
You mentioned these two parallel fuel systems.
您提到了这两个并行的燃油系统。
One is essentially anaerobic, and the other is aerobic.
一种本质上是无氧的，另一种是有氧的。
You said that if we can't break enough bonds, then we limit our anaerobic capacity.
你说如果我们不能打破足够多的键，那么我们的无氧能力就会受到限制。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct.
正确。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I would've thought, given that the mitochondria are the site essentially for aerobic metabolism-
我本以为，考虑到线粒体是有氧代谢的主要场所——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
that we would be limiting our aerobic capacity as well.
我们也会限制我们的有氧运动能力。
Perhaps you could just clarify for me-
也许你可以帮我澄清一下-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
how these two things are divided.
这两件事是如何划分的。
Or is there not a clean division?
还是划分不干净？
Is there not an either/or?
难道没有非此即彼的吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. In fact, again, I think it's better to think of these things rather as two separate parallel things, as one big cycle.
不。事实上，我再次认为最好将这些事情视为两个独立的并行事物，作为一个大循环。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're one gear turning the next.
他们是一个齿轮转动着下一个齿轮。
Being compromised in one will compromise the other.
一方面受到损害，另一方面也会受到损害。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
That, I should say, reminds me of what you said earlier, which is the bicycle gear-
我应该说，这让我想起了你之前所说的，那就是自行车齿轮——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
analogy.
类比。
That works great.
效果很好。
So if you short-circuit one, basically the chain can't move.
所以如果你短路了，基本上链条就不能动了。
That's-
那是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
fantastic.
太棒了。
Okay.
好的。
So indeed, they are running in parallel, but they are interdependent.
所以确实，它们是并行运行的，但它们是相互依赖的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, they're actually not even running in parallel because they're actually funneling to the same endpoint.
好吧，它们实际上甚至没有并行运行，因为它们实际上汇集到同一端点。
Right?
正确的？
Which is like if you're going to come from the anaerobic glycolysis route, or you're going to come from the fat route, which I'll talk about in a second, they're both going to be limited in the mitochondria.
这就像如果你要来自无氧糖酵解途径，或者你要来自脂肪途径（我稍后会谈到），它们都将受到线粒体的限制。
So when that thing's full, it doesn't matter.
所以当那个东西满了的时候，就没关系了。
You can't run either system.
您无法运行这两个系统。
Right?
正确的？
So it is more of like a, again, if you're running the bike gears, it doesn't really matter if the back one's larger or smaller because if either one is limited, you're toast because they're running on the same system.
所以它更像是，如果你运行自行车齿轮，后面的齿轮更大或更小并不重要，因为如果其中一个受到限制，你就完蛋了，因为它们在同一个系统上运行。
You can sneak a little bit here and there, but not much.
你可以到处偷偷摸摸，但不要太多。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
You also really nicely highlighted how lactate, this thing that we think of as a limiting factor, like the burn, and it gets in the way, and-
你还很好地强调了乳酸，我们认为这是一个限制因素，就像烧伤一样，它是如何阻碍的，而且-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
it's the thing we need to stop and buffer and all sorts of things.
这是我们需要停止和缓冲的事情以及各种各样的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
It's actually really a fuel.
它实际上是一种燃料。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a tremendously effective fuel.
这是一种非常有效的燃料。
Yeah, it is a strongly preferred fuel, actually.
是的，实际上，它是一种强烈首选的燃料。
This is interesting.
这很有趣。
This is a very classic case of association, correlation versus causation.
这是一个非常经典的关联、相关与因果关系的案例。
Right?
正确的？
So the original, actually, there's a really cool history on lactate, but it was originally found, I think, in Germany.
事实上，最初的乳酸有一段很酷的历史，但我认为它最初是在德国发现的。
Pardon my history there.
请原谅我在那里的历史。
Somewhere in Europe in hunted stags.
在欧洲的某个地方，猎杀雄鹿。
So one of the things is they sort of realized is like if we harvested a stag in a rest state when it didn't know we were there versus if we chased it and it was ran down, that these lactate concentrations were significantly higher in the latter situation.
因此，他们意识到，如果我们在休息状态下收获一头雄鹿，而它并不知道我们在那里，而我们追赶它并被它追倒，那么在后一种情况下，这些乳酸浓度明显更高。
Therefore, lactate started immediately getting this association between high fatigue points, and it is easy to measure.
因此，乳酸立即开始获得高疲劳点之间的这种关联，并且很容易测量。
If you were to do any sort of lactate test, any sort of metabolic test, you will see as fatigue increases, lactate will also increase.
如果你要做任何类型的乳酸测试，任何类型的代谢测试，你会发现随着疲劳的增加，乳酸也会增加。
The assumption there was then, oh my gosh, it's the cause.
当时的假设是，天哪，这就是原因。
Now we know, again, it's not the thing.
现在我们再次知道，这不是问题所在。
It's in large part trying to buffer the negative consequences of ATP hydrolysis and some other things.
它在很大程度上试图缓冲 ATP 水解和其他一些事情的负面后果。
So it is certainly playing a part in that role, but it is not a core driver.
因此，它确实发挥了这一作用，但它不是核心驱动力。
It's also why you don't need to worry about doing things to, quote-unquote, "reduce lactate in the muscle after exercise" or to clear lactate or any of those things.
这也是为什么你不需要担心“运动后减少肌肉中的乳酸”或清除乳酸或任何类似的事情。
You may still want to do those activities, but not for that reason.
您可能仍然想做这些活动，但不是出于这个原因。
Lactate's fine.
乳酸就好了
You're actually going to use it in, again, the neighboring exercise muscle fibers in the same muscle.
实际上，您将再次在同一块肌肉中的相邻运动肌纤维中使用它。
Another muscle, you can send it actually to the liver, and it can actually go through gluconeogenesis, and it can actually replenish liver glycogen just as that fuel source, or you can send the heart or any number of sources.
另一块肌肉，你可以将它实际上发送到肝脏，它实际上可以进行糖异生，它实际上可以补充肝糖原，就像燃料来源一样，或者你可以发送心脏或任何数量的来源。
You can also just kind of put it in circulation, put it back in the muscle, and once enough oxygen is there, you can just kick it right back into either glucose or glycogen.
您也可以将其放入循环中，放回到肌肉中，一旦有足够的氧气，您就可以将其重新踢回到葡萄糖或糖原中。
It's totally fine.
完全没问题。
So it is obviously clear, though, once that number gets very, very high, other things are going to be happening that are going to be causing a lot of hurt, and this is your managing waste, right?
所以很明显，一旦这个数字变得非常非常高，就会发生其他事情，造成很大的伤害，这就是你的浪费管理，对吗？
It is really an issue of managing what am I going to do with all this extra carbon?
这实际上是一个管理问题，我该如何处理这些额外的碳？
What am I going to do with all this extra inorganic phosphate and some other nasty byproducts?
我该如何处理所有这些多余的无机磷酸盐和其他一些令人讨厌的副产品？
But that's the thing you have to deal with.
但这就是你必须处理的事情。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I'd love for you to teach me how different ratios of fuel sources are used depending on how long I happen to be exercising.
我希望你能教我如何根据我锻炼的时间来使用不同比例的燃料来源。
For example, if I do a very short bout of exercise-
例如，如果我做了一次很短的锻炼-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
typically, that's correlated with a higher intensity output.
通常，这与更高的强度输出相关。
I suppose I could jog for one minute, but here I'm thinking about sprinting for one minute or less.
我想我可以慢跑一分钟，但这里我想冲刺一分钟或更短时间。
Which fuels are used?
使用哪些燃料？
Is that mainly driven by fat stores, by carbohydrate stores?
这主要是由脂肪储存、碳水化合物储存驱动的吗？
Is it driven by dietary fat preferentially, or carbohydrate-
它是由膳食脂肪优先驱动，还是由碳水化合物驱动？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
that I've ingested, if indeed I've ingested those?
我已经摄入了，如果我确实摄入了那些？
Or protein, for that matter.
或者蛋白质，就此而言。
And then as we transition to exercise that goes a little bit longer, anywhere from three to five minutes, how do those ratios change?
然后，当我们过渡到时间稍长一点（三到五分钟）的锻炼时，这些比率会发生怎样的变化？
And as we transition to longer duration, what most people think of as endurance exercise, but long-duration output of 20 minutes or more leading all the way up to a full marathon, how does that change the ratio of fuel sources that are used?
当我们过渡到更长的持续时间时，大多数人认为这是耐力运动，但 20 分钟或更长的持续时间输出一直到全程马拉松，这会如何改变所使用的燃料来源的比例？
And I'd be particularly interested in distinguishing between carbohydrate, fat, and protein that's ingested, so coming from food sources, or carbohydrate, fat, and protein that are coming from storage sites within the body.
我特别感兴趣的是区分摄入的碳水化合物、脂肪和蛋白质（来自食物来源）或来自体内储存部位的碳水化合物、脂肪和蛋白质。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, great.
好的，太好了。
Let's start at zero seconds and run all the way through a marathon.
让我们从零秒开始，一路跑完一场马拉松。
And we'll flag the distinctions where they start changing.
我们将在它们开始发生变化的地方标记出它们的区别。
As soon as you want to create muscle contraction and power, the very first source of energy is phosphocreatine.
一旦您想要产生肌肉收缩和力量，第一个能量来源就是磷酸肌酸。
That's going to power you for zero to maybe, say, 8 to 15, 20 seconds of maximal exertion.
这将为您提供零到也许 8 到 15、20 秒最大运动量的能量。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And that's coming from the muscle fibers themselves.
这是来自肌肉纤维本身。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
That is actually stored in what's called the cytoplasm.
它实际上储存在所谓的细胞质中。
So this is a little area or space in the muscle fiber that's sort of like in this jelly-like substance, and it's nice because one molecule of phosphocreatine gives you one molecule of ATP.
这是肌肉纤维中的一个小区域或空间，有点像这种果冻状物质，这很好，因为一分子磷酸肌酸可以为你提供一分子 ATP。
So it's not a big energy output, but it's very fast because it is stored right there in the local exercising muscle.
因此，它的能量输出并不大，但速度非常快，因为它存储在局部运动肌肉中。
Right.
正确的。
Now, if you need energy past that point, say 10 or 15 seconds up to maybe a couple of minutes, this is now you're going to have to transition because you're going to burn through that phosphocreatine, and it's going to be out.
现在，如果你需要能量超过那个点，比如 10 或 15 秒到几分钟，那么你现在就必须过渡，因为你将消耗掉磷酸肌酸，它就会消失。
You're going to have to move to now carbohydrate metabolism.
你现在必须转向碳水化合物代谢。
This is what we call anaerobic glycolysis.
这就是我们所说的无氧糖酵解。
So there's two phases of glycolysis.
所以糖酵解有两个阶段。
Now, glycolysis itself means glucose burning.
现在，糖酵解本身意味着葡萄糖燃烧。
All right?
好的？
So it just means we're using carbohydrate as a fuel source.
所以这只是意味着我们正在使用碳水化合物作为燃料来源。
So initially, when we start off this cascade Which is going to take us, again, for a couple of minutes.
所以最初，当我们开始这个级联时，这将再次花费我们几分钟的时间。
Carbohydrate utilization comes first from the exercising muscle, so it's very similar to phosphocreatine that way.
碳水化合物的利用首先来自锻炼肌肉，因此它与磷酸肌酸非常相似。
If you start running low on it, you can actually start pulling blood glucose, and if blood glucose gets low, you'll have to start getting glycogen from the liver to keep that up, and we've sort of covered that conversation.
如果你的糖原开始不足，你实际上可以开始降低血糖，如果血糖变低，你就必须开始从肝脏获取糖原来维持糖原的水平，我们已经讨论过这个话题了。
All right.
好的。
So a little bit of chemistry here.
这里需要一点化学知识。
Just give me a little bit of room here.
请给我一点空间。
So now, remember, a carbohydrate is a carbon molecule that has been hydrated.
所以现在，请记住，碳水化合物是已经水合的碳分子。
So one carbon attached to one water, and remember, water is H2O.
因此，一个碳附着在一个水上，请记住，水是 H2O。
Most of the time when we're talking about glucose, it is in a six-carbon chain.
大多数时候，当我们谈论葡萄糖时，它位于六碳链中。
So six carbons attached to six water molecules.
因此六个碳附着在六个水分子上。
All right, great.
好吧，太好了。
When I go to split this up through anaerobic glycolysis, it works a little bit like this.
当我通过无氧糖酵解将其分解时，它的工作原理有点像这样。
So you've got this six-carbon chain.
这样你就得到了这条六碳链。
The first step is to snap that thing in half.
第一步是将那个东西折成两半。
You're going to make two three-carbon chains.
你将制造两条三碳链。
Now, we broke one bond right there, so we got a little bit of energy, but not a tremendous amount.
现在，我们就在那里打破了一个键，所以我们得到了一点点能量，但不是大量的能量。
At the end of anaerobic glycolysis, you're going to net something like three or four ATP.
在无氧糖酵解结束时，您将获得大约三到四个 ATP。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So more than you get from the phosphocreatine system.
所以比您从磷酸肌酸系统中获得的更多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Triple or quadruple.
三倍或四倍。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But still not very much.
但仍然不是很多。
There's another major downside that's coming in a second to this system.
该系统还有另一个主要缺点。
The upside is it's fast.
好处是速度快。
Now, actually, one adaptation we get to training in this style is you'll increase your ability to store glycogen in your muscle, which is great, right?
现在，实际上，我们对这种训练方式的一种适应是，你会提高肌肉中储存糖原的能力，这很棒，对吧？
We can actually biopsy you and measure the amount that you store, and a training adaptation is awesome.
我们实际上可以对你进行活检并测量你储存的量，并且训练适应非常棒。
So you're able to sustain this system longer.
所以你能够更长时间地维持这个系统。
So perhaps 90 seconds into your interval training, you hit a fatigue point, and now you maybe can extend that to 100 or 115 seconds simply because you're storing more glycogen in the muscle before we have to and then go into the blood and get it in the form of glucose.
因此，也许在间歇训练进行 90 秒后，您就达到了疲劳点，现在您可能可以将其延长到 100 或 115 秒，因为您在肌肉中储存了更多的糖原，然后进入血液并以葡萄糖的形式获取它。
So that's great.
那太好了。
So we've got this six-carbon molecule, and we split this in half, we got that little bit of ATP, and now we're in this little tricky position because this three-carbon molecule is what we call pyruvate, pyruvic acid.
所以我们得到了这个六碳分子，我们把它分成两半，我们得到了一点点 ATP，现在我们处于这个有点棘手的位置，因为这个三碳分子就是我们所说的丙酮酸，丙酮酸。
And again, chemistry folks, I'm skipping some steps.
再说一遍，化学朋友们，我跳过了一些步骤。
I'm going to intentionally make some mistakes here.
我会故意在这里犯一些错误。
I'm making sure the entire world listening, regardless of where they come in, can follow me here, okay?
我要确保全世界的听众，无论他们来自哪里，都能跟随我来到这里，好吗？
So don't burn me on the details.
所以别在细节上惹恼我。
Right.
正确的。
You've got this pyruvate.
你有丙酮酸。
The problem is you can no longer do anything with that.
问题是你不能再用它做任何事情了。
Glycolysis is over.
糖酵解结束。
You've got to make a choice, right?
你必须做出选择，对吗？
In order to make something out of those three-carbon molecules, you've got to ship them to the mitochondria.
为了利用这些三碳分子制造一些东西，你必须将它们运送到线粒体。
As we've said, that is the only place of aerobic metabolism, right?
正如我们所说，那是有氧代谢的唯一场所，对吧？
We cannot do aerobic metabolism anywhere else until we enter the mitochondria.
在进入线粒体之前，我们无法在其他任何地方进行有氧代谢。
So any time we cross that barrier, we know we've automatically switched from anaerobic to aerobic.
因此，每当我们跨越这个障碍时，我们就知道我们已经自动从无氧状态切换到有氧状态。
Well, here's the problem.
嗯，问题来了。
If you were to take one more carbon off that three-carbon pyruvate, you have to now do something with that carbon waste.
如果你想从三碳丙酮酸中再去除一个碳，你现在就必须对这些碳废物做一些事情。
Okay?
好的？
So before, when we split the six-carbon chain, we didn't actually leave any carbons free-floating.
所以之前，当我们分裂六碳链时，我们实际上并没有留下任何自由浮动的碳。
We just split a two molecule in half.
我们只是将两个分子分成两半。
When we go to split from pyruvate and make it into this two-carbon molecule called acetyl-CoA or acetyl-CoA, now we've got a free-floating carbon.
当我们从丙酮酸中分离出来并将其变成称为乙酰辅酶A或乙酰辅酶A的双碳分子时，现在我们得到了一个自由浮动的碳。
We have to have a strategy for that because that's going to increase the acidity level.
我们必须为此制定策略，因为这会增加酸度水平。
Any enzyme in our body that works to create fuel is very pH sensitive.
我们体内任何能够产生燃料的酶都对 pH 值非常敏感。
All right?
好的？
So if pH gets off either high or low, these enzymes can't work.
因此，如果 pH 值过高或过低，这些酶就无法发挥作用。
And that's really, really important because even if I were to give you a direct injection of ATP, remember that's that energy currency, that's the only way we can actually form energy.
这真的非常非常重要，因为即使我直接给你注入 ATP，记住那是能量货币，这是我们真正形成能量的唯一方式。
And I guess remember to clarify, any time we're using phosphocreatine or glucose or fat, which we'll get to in a second, we're not actually getting energy for exercise by breaking those down.
我想请记住澄清一下，任何时候我们使用磷酸肌酸或葡萄糖或脂肪（我们稍后会讲到），我们实际上并没有通过分解它们来获得运动能量。
We're getting energy that we can use to then make ATP.
我们获得的能量可以用来制造 ATP。
We break that ATP down.
我们将 ATP 分解。
That's what's actually powering muscle contraction.
这实际上是肌肉收缩的动力。
You can go back to our previous episode where we walked you through the detail of the muscle contraction, but that's what we're after, okay?
您可以回到我们的上一集，我们向您介绍了肌肉收缩的细节，但这就是我们所追求的，好吗？
So in the case of pyruvate, if we split that off, we have got to deal with that, and the only way, and the best way we can deal with that is oxygen.
因此，就丙酮酸而言，如果我们将其分开，我们就必须处理它，而我们处理它的唯一方法，也是最好的方法就是氧气。
Remember, we're going to breathe in O2.
请记住，我们要吸入氧气。
That O2 is going to combine with that free-floating carbon, make CO2.
氧气将与自由漂浮的碳结合，形成二氧化碳。
We're going to exhale that thing out.
我们要把那东西呼出来。
That's our waste management strategy.
这就是我们的废物管理策略。
But that has to happen in the mitochondria.
但这必须发生在线粒体中。
Remember, if we're using oxygen, it has to be in the mitochondria.
请记住，如果我们使用氧气，它必须在线粒体中。
So if we have the ability to ship pyruvate into the mitochondria, we're golden.
因此，如果我们有能力将丙酮酸运送到线粒体中，那么我们就成功了。
But what happens if we don't?
但如果我们不这样做会怎样？
Why do we not?
为什么我们不这样做？
Well, if we don't have enough mitochondria or our mitochondria are too small or they're too far away, or we don't have sufficient oxygen availability.
好吧，如果我们没有足够的线粒体，或者我们的线粒体太小，或者它们距离太远，或者我们没有足够的氧气供应。
Why don't we have sufficient oxygen availability?
为什么我们没有足够的氧气？
Because we created the pyruvate too fast, and the demand in the mitochondria is exceeded by the buildup of pyruvate.
因为我们产生丙酮酸的速度太快，丙酮酸的积累超出了线粒体的需求。
And so now we're having this giant backlog, and this thing fills up fast.
所以现在我们有大量的积压，而且这个东西很快就填满了。
We have a couple of strategies here.
我们这里有几个策略。
Well, when you're going through ATP and you're splitting, it's called ATP hydrolysis.
嗯，当您消耗 ATP 并进行分裂时，这称为 ATP 水解。
In of doing that, remember, ATP is a adenosine molecule, and then the T part is triphosphate, one, two, three, which means you have three phosphates attached to the end.
在这样做时，请记住，ATP 是一个腺苷分子，然后 T 部分是三磷酸盐，一、二、三，这意味着末端连接了三个磷酸盐。
When you break that phosphate off, that's where you get your energy.
当你把磷酸盐分解掉时，你就会从那里获得能量。
And so now you have an inorganic phosphate and an ADP, adenosine diphosphate, two.
现在你有了无机磷酸盐和 ADP（二磷酸腺苷）两种。
That process requires water.
这个过程需要水。
It's called hydrolysis.
这称为水解。
As a result of that, you then have a free-floating hydrogen, and as you well know, that is acid, right?
结果，你就得到了自由漂浮的氢，众所周知，那是酸，对吧？
That's potential hydrogen.
这就是潜在的氢。
That's what that means.
这就是这个意思。
And so you've increased the acidity in the muscle by breaking up all this ATP.
因此，您通过分解所有这些 ATP 增加了肌肉的酸度。
And so, uh-oh, we're building up acid.
所以，呃哦，我们正在积聚酸。
We are building up pyruvate.
我们正在积累丙酮酸。
We now have nowhere to go with it, and we can't cleave off a carbon because now we're just going to exacerbate the acid increase.
我们现在无处可去，我们无法裂解碳，因为现在我们只会加剧酸的增加。
So what we can do is we can take those hydrogens that we're building up and store them on the pyruvate.
所以我们能做的就是将我们正在积累的氢储存在丙酮酸中。
A pyruvate that's holding an extra acid has a special name, and we call that lactate All right?
含有额外酸的丙酮酸有一个特殊的名字，我们称之为乳酸，好吗？
So that's why we see this buildup of lactate.
这就是我们看到乳酸堆积的原因。
So one of the downsides of anaerobic glycolysis is an incredibly high rate of waste production.
因此，无氧糖酵解的缺点之一是废物产生率极高。
Now, lactate is not the cause of fatigue.
现在，乳酸并不是疲劳的原因。
In fact, if you think a little bit more carefully about what I just said, it's actually stopping you.
事实上，如果你仔细思考一下我刚才所说的话，你就会发现它实际上阻止了你。
It's what we call a acid buffer.
这就是我们所说的酸性缓冲剂。
You can actually use it for a bunch of other things.
实际上你可以用它来做很多其他事情。
You can ship it to a neighboring muscle fiber in the same muscle that's not working.
您可以将其运送到同一块不工作的肌肉中的相邻肌纤维。
You can ship it to the liver, you can ship it to the heart, and a bunch of other places, and then you can actually just work backwards.
你可以将它运送到肝脏，你可以将它运送到心脏，以及许多其他地方，然后你实际上可以向后工作。
So if you ship it to, for example, the heart, and it's got a bunch of mitochondria that are free, you can bring in the oxygen, attach it to that hydrogen, make water, and now you're right back to pyruvate.
因此，如果你将它运送到心脏，并且它有一堆游离的线粒体，你可以带入氧气，将其与氢气结合，生成水，现在你就又回到了丙酮酸。
You put two pyruvate back together, and now you just make glucose.
你把两种丙酮酸放回一起，现在你就生成了葡萄糖。
So you can actually store it in the liver.
所以你实际上可以将它储存在肝脏中。
This is a process called gluconeogenesis, through this fancy thing called the Cori cycle, which is what the proper cycle here is.
这是一个称为糖异生的过程，通过称为科里循环的奇特事物，这就是这里正确的循环。
So you can use it as a very potent fuel source.
因此，您可以将其用作非常有效的燃料来源。
In fact, a lactate is a tremendously valuable fuel source, not only for exercise, but for cognition and a bunch of other things.
事实上，乳酸是一种非常有价值的燃料来源，不仅可以用于锻炼，还可以用于认知和其他许多事情。
So lactate, in fact, this is why, if you've seen any of the research about pre-exam testing exercise, you'll see a noticeable increase in exam scores if you do a 20-minute bout of exercise prior to taking the exam.
所以乳酸，事实上，这就是为什么，如果你看过任何有关考前测试运动的研究，你会发现如果你在考试前进行 20 分钟的运动，你会发现考试成绩会显着提高。
And it's largely, in part, probably because of things like elevations in lactate.
这在很大程度上、部分可能是由于乳酸升高等原因造成的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
How intense of exercise would be most beneficial?
多剧烈的运动最有益？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know that exact answer.
我不知道确切的答案。
I just know that, generally, any form of exercise is good.
我只知道，一般来说，任何形式的锻炼都是好的。
But if you were to reach a reasonably high heart rate, you're probably going to see...
但如果您要达到相当高的心率，您可能会看到......
In fact, there's an acute and chronic adaptation here.
事实上，这里存在着急性和慢性的适应。
So folks that exercise have had better memory retention, scores on exams, et cetera.
因此，锻炼的人有更好的记忆力、考试成绩等等。
But then also doing it prior to that exam, make sure you're recovered and rested and back down to straight, but you'll generally perform better.
但也要在考试前做这件事，确保你已经恢复、休息并恢复正常，但通常你会表现得更好。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Previous guest on the Huberman Lab podcast, who's a psychology professor and neuroscientist and also Dean of College of Arts and Sciences at New York University, NYU, Wendy Suzuki, is religious about daily morning exercise-
休伯曼实验室播客的前任嘉宾温迪·铃木 (Wendy Suzuki) 是一位心理学教授、神经科学家，也是纽约大学艺术与科学学院院长，她非常热衷于每日晨间锻炼——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
specifically for this purpose of enhancing learning and memory, and has-
专门用于增强学习和记忆的目的，并且有-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Totally
完全
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
a lot of really beautiful data.
很多非常漂亮的数据。
I consider her one of the real pioneers in this space.
我认为她是这个领域真正的先驱之一。
So if people want to learn more, they can look to that episode or Wendy's work.
因此，如果人们想了解更多信息，可以查看该集或温迪的作品。
We can provide a link to a couple of the papers.
我们可以提供几篇论文的链接。
But this is fantastic in that it's incredibly clear.
但这太棒了，因为它非常清晰。
I think for the first time, I'm understanding what lactate is really doing.
我想这是我第一次了解乳酸的真正作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And it's dispelling a lot of myths that I think I and a lot of other people arrive to the discussion about lactate with.
我想我和其他很多人都在讨论有关乳酸的问题，这消除了很多误解。
What happens when the bout of exercise extends longer?
当运动时间延长时会发生什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amazing.
太棒了。
So if we want to continue past that point, we have to have some sort of strategy to get through it, right?
因此，如果我们想继续超越这一点，我们就必须制定某种策略来度过难关，对吗？
We're stuck.
我们被困住了。
We're out of gas.
我们没汽油了。
We have to then ship it to the mitochondria, and now we're going to enter what's called aerobic glycolysis, and this is going to take us anywhere from, again, say that 90 seconds of all-out work up to really 20, 30 minutes.
然后我们必须将其运送到线粒体，现在我们将进入所谓的有氧糖酵解，这将使我们从90秒的全力锻炼到真正的20、30分钟。
In fact, it really will take us to unlimited.
事实上，它确实会把我们带向无限。
If you look at a highly competitive marathon runner, even those that are running, say, your two-hour marathon, those folks are burning up to 80% carbohydrate.
如果你观察一位竞争激烈的马拉松运动员，即使是那些正在跑两小时马拉松的人，也会发现这些人燃烧了高达 80% 的碳水化合物。
It is not a fat-burning thing, and the reason is fat metabolism is way too slow.
它不是燃烧脂肪的东西，原因是脂肪代谢太慢。
It provides a lot of energy, but it is incredibly slow.
它提供了大量的能量，但速度却非常慢。
If you're trying to run a four and a half or so minute mile repeated 26 times, you have to be moving fast.
如果您想跑 4 分半钟左右的一英里并重复 26 次，那么您必须加快速度。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Are they ingesting carbohydrate as a fuel source during the race?
他们在比赛期间是否摄入碳水化合物作为燃料来源？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Unless you're on the team, you don't know.
除非你在团队中，否则你不知道。
They won't really tell you.
他们不会真的告诉你。
These are sort of trade secrets.
这些都是商业秘密。
It would be, I would say, fairly rare to not have something.
我想说，没有什么东西是相当罕见的。
Right?
正确的？
There's a bunch of different strategies.
有很多不同的策略。
If you're going to go really long, like cycling, where the races will be several hours, then you actually might go to some fat as fuel sources.
如果你要参加很长的比赛，比如骑自行车，比赛会持续几个小时，那么你实际上可能会使用一些脂肪作为燃料来源。
I know a lot of cyclists are using ketones and things like that now.
我知道现在很多骑自行车的人都在使用酮类药物。
But traditionally, most endurance folks are going to bias heavily towards carbohydrate.
但传统上，大多数耐力人士都会严重偏向碳水化合物。
Now, in one respect, you're not going to run out of carbohydrates until you're many hours in.
现在，从一方面来说，除非你坚持几个小时，否则你不会耗尽碳水化合物。
These folks are a unique case, but the average individual who's doing an hour, hour and a half cardio even, you're not going to be limited by your carbohydrate stores.
这些人是一个独特的例子，但即使是进行一个小时、一个半小时有氧运动的普通人，你也不会受到碳水化合物储存的限制。
You're going to be just fine.
你会没事的。
You're going to be limited by some other things, which we'll maybe sort of break down here in a second, but you're going to be fine there.
你会受到一些其他事情的限制，我们可能会在一秒钟内对此进行分解，但你在那里会没事的。
A lot of those folks will take carbohydrate, though, at very specific intervals.
不过，其中很多人会以非常特定的时间间隔摄入碳水化合物。
You do want to be careful, though, of ingesting too many fast carbohydrates prior to your exercise bout.
不过，您确实要小心，不要在运动前摄入过多的快速碳水化合物。
We actually have this little thing that's called the insulin-glucose double whammy.
我们实际上有一个小东西，叫做胰岛素-葡萄糖双重打击。
What that means is when you ingest carbohydrates, immediately your blood glucose goes up, and that's depending on the type of carbohydrate and things like that.
这意味着当您摄入碳水化合物时，您的血糖会立即升高，这取决于碳水化合物的类型等。
Well, the same thing happens with exercise.
嗯，运动也会发生同样的情况。
And so what happens is insulin wants to start pulling glucose out of the blood.
因此，胰岛素想要开始从血液中提取葡萄糖。
At the same time, muscle wants to start pulling glucose out of the blood.
与此同时，肌肉想要开始从血液中吸收葡萄糖。
And so we have this giant bolus of carbohydrate come in, and then all of a sudden, our blood sugar crashes.
所以我们摄入了大量的碳水化合物，然后突然间，我们的血糖急剧下降。
And so if you're going to be doing your first half-marathon or something like that, and you're in those giant corrals where there's 100 people waiting to go and you're standing there for 45 minutes, you may or may not want to slug down three or four bananas and a bagel and honey and things.
所以，如果你要参加你的第一次半程马拉松或类似的比赛，而你在那些巨大的畜栏里，那里有 100 个人等着去，而你在那里站了 45 分钟，你可能想也可能不想吃三四个香蕉、百吉饼、蜂蜜之类的东西。
You probably don't need that.
你可能不需要那个。
Now, not everyone experiences this double whammy, but it has been shown in the literature to happen to some people, so you want to just be a little bit careful.
现在，并不是每个人都会经历这种双重打击，但文献表明这种情况会发生在某些人身上，所以你要小心一点。
An easy way to combat that is just practice exactly what you're going to do in your race, in your training.
对抗这种情况的一个简单方法就是准确地练习你在比赛和训练中要做的事情。
It's the simplest advice ever, but you'd be stunned how many people do things during the race that they've actually never done in training.
这是有史以来最简单的建议，但你会惊讶地发现有多少人在比赛中做了他们在训练中从未做过的事情。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I suggest people do exactly what you described also for any kind of cognitive testing.
我建议人们在任何类型的认知测试中都按照您所描述的方式进行操作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of course.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Before a big exam is not the time to discover whether or not you can handle twice as much espresso or take a nootropic for the first time or-
在一场大考试之前，不是时候确定你是否可以喝两倍的浓缩咖啡或第一次服用促智药，或者——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No
否
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
or change anything.
或改变任何东西。
If indeed the score on that exam is meaningful to you.
如果该考试的分数确实对您有意义。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Keep things regular.
保持一切正常。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So to recap what we've done here is we started off in the cytoplasm with this glucose molecule that is six carbons.
因此，回顾一下我们在这里所做的事情，我们从细胞质中的六个碳的葡萄糖分子开始。
We took that thing, we split it in half.
我们拿走了那东西，把它分成两半。
We call that thing anaerobic glycolysis.
我们称之为无氧糖酵解。
We made a little bit of energy, but not much.
我们制造了一点能量，但不多。
We take those three carbon molecules, we ship them into the mitochondria.
我们将这三个碳分子运送到线粒体中。
We take each one of those, we cleave off one carbon each.
我们拿走其中的每一个，然后分别切下一个碳。
Those carbons, we take a breath in, we attach them to oxygen, we exhale them, get rid of that energy.
我们吸入这些碳，将它们与氧气结合，呼出它们，释放掉能量。
We are now fully into aerobic glycolysis.
我们现在完全进入有氧糖酵解阶段。
Each one of those two carbon molecules we run through the Krebs cycle.
这两个碳分子中的每一个都经历克雷布斯循环。
Each round of the Krebs cycle burns one, two carbons.
每一轮克雷布斯循环都会燃烧一两个碳。
So we go one, two, one, two, and now we've gone from six-carbon molecule all the way down to zero.
所以我们一、二、一、二，现在我们已经从六碳分子一路降到零。
We used the hydrogens that we pulled off of that Krebs cycle run to go to the electron transport chain.
我们使用从克雷布斯循环运行中获得的氢进入电子传输链。
From there, we made a whole bunch of ATP.
从那里，我们制造了一大堆 ATP。
And so we have now fully metabolized one molecule of carbohydrate, and the end product of all of it is simply ATP, water, and CO2.
因此，我们现在已经完全代谢了一个碳水化合物分子，所有碳水化合物的最终产物只是 ATP、水和二氧化碳。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Beautiful.
美丽。
And leads me to the conclusion that most everything is really about utilization of carbons and exhaling CO2.
这让我得出这样的结论：大多数事情实际上都与碳的利用和呼出二氧化碳有关。
Is that how I should think about bookending what you just described?
这就是我应该如何考虑你刚才描述的预订吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is why we started off the conversation with the circle of life.
这就是我们开始与生活圈对话的原因。
This is really a carbon game.
这真是一个碳游戏。
This is why we call chemistry with carbon organic chemistry.
这就是为什么我们将化学称为碳有机化学。
That's what this whole thing is about.
这就是整件事的意义所在。
Any living being has to run through metabolism.
任何生物体都必须经过新陈代谢。
It's all a carbon game.
这都是碳游戏。
Any living being has to use ATP.
任何生物都必须使用 ATP。
This is all just a big fancy game of how do I make ATP and handle the waste.
这只是一场关于我如何制造 ATP 并处理废物的大型奇特游戏。
Remember, endurance is all about waste management, fatigue resistance, the same thing, and energy production.
请记住，耐力与废物管理、抗疲劳能力以及能量产生有关。
We're playing a game here.
我们在这里玩游戏。
The whole game, bring in energy, use it, mitigate waste products.
整个游戏，引入能量，使用它，减少废物。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So in thinking about aerobic exercise or long-duration exercise, in this case, anything longer than five minutes, for that matter, five minutes all the way up to-
因此，在考虑有氧运动或长时间运动时，在这种情况下，任何超过五分钟的运动，就此而言，五分钟一直到-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
an ultramarathon.
超级马拉松。
The breathing associated with endurance exercise, the heart beating, which, of course, is associated with the breathing and vice versa, it's really all about bringing oxygen into the system that then allows those carbons to be used and within the mitochondria specifically, and then carbon dioxide to be exhaled as we work through the carbons of the sort of beads on a string.
与耐力运动相关的呼吸，心跳，当然，与呼吸相关，反之亦然，这实际上就是将氧气带入系统，然后允许这些碳在线粒体内被使用，然后当我们通过绳子上的那种珠子的碳时，呼出二氧化碳。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Unless you're moving incredibly fast for a very long time, and we're talking probably north of 90 minutes, endurance is really not a game of making sure I have enough fuel.
除非你在很长一段时间内以令人难以置信的速度行驶（我们谈论的可能超过 90 分钟），否则耐力实际上并不是一场确保我有足够燃料的游戏。
It is simply managing the waste production, and that's exactly what you described.
它只是管理废物的产生，这正是你所描述的。
You need to bring in the oxygen so you can handle the carbon that's building up as a result of both the anaerobic glycolysis.
你需要引入氧气，这样你才能处理因无氧糖酵解而产生的碳。
That's our game here.
这就是我们这里的游戏。
If we start talking about endurance events longer than that, now we do have to start worrying about running out of muscle glycogen, running out of liver glycogen, et cetera.
如果我们开始谈论耐力赛事的时间比这更长，那么现在我们确实必须开始担心肌糖原耗尽、肝糖原耗尽等等。
Or if we are at that two-hour mark or so and we're moving very fast.
或者如果我们已经到了两个小时左右，而且我们进展得非常快。
But anything south of that is just managing carbon buildup, and we do that best through oxygen utilization or getting more efficient and having a higher capacity for our anaerobic side.
但除此之外的任何事情都只是管理碳的积累，而我们通过氧气利用或提高效率并提高无氧方面的能力来最好地做到这一点。
So we can do that by having either more glycogen in our muscle, so that lasts longer, or building better acid buffering systems.
因此，我们可以通过在肌肉中添加更多的糖原（从而持续更长时间）或建立更好的酸缓冲系统来做到这一点。
And there's a whole line of supplementation that are specifically acid buffers.
还有一整套专门针对酸性缓冲剂的补充剂。
There's a whole line of training, there's a whole line of breathing to manage just that.
有一个完整的训练系列，有一个完整的呼吸系列来管理这一点。
So we have a lot of strategies where we can maximize endurance.
因此，我们有很多策略可以最大限度地提高耐力。
All we have to do is go back to the earlier part of our talk, which is figure out what's the actual limiting step, and then train according to that or do your strategy, your nutrition, your supplementation that defeats that limiting factor.
我们所要做的就是回到我们演讲的前面部分，即找出实际的限制步骤是什么，然后根据该步骤进行训练，或者采取您的策略、营养和补充来克服该限制因素。
For an example, if you are trying to maximize your performance in this 20-second maximal burst, and your strategy for that was to make sure that your muscle glycogen is saturated, it's probably not going to help a ton because you're not going to be limited by total fuel.
举个例子，如果你试图在这 20 秒的最大爆发中最大化你的表现，而你的策略是确保你的肌糖原饱和，那么它可能不会有太大帮助，因为你不会受到总燃料的限制。
You're going to be limited by your ability to buffer acid.
您的缓冲酸能力将受到限制。
However, storing more glycogen in your muscle in preparation for a marathon is a tremendously effective strategy because that will become a limiting factor.
然而，在肌肉中储存更多的糖原来准备马拉松是一个非常有效的策略，因为这将成为一个限制因素。
So what we can do actually next, if you'd like, is we can just walk through these and look at the individual limitations where the failure point happens, and then that effectively will outline your strategy for improving them.
因此，如果您愿意，我们下一步实际上可以做的是，我们可以浏览这些内容并查看发生故障点的个人限制，然后有效地概述您的改进策略。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So you taught us about carbohydrate utilization as a fuel source.
So you taught us about carbohydrate utilization as a fuel source.
What about fat, and what about protein?
脂肪怎么样，蛋白质又怎么样？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
I'll start with protein because it's easy.
我将从蛋白质开始，因为它很容易。
It is generally, at best, going to represent 10% of your energy output.
It is generally, at best, going to represent 10% of your energy output.
Now, that will grow over time in terms of if you did a several-hour bout of exercise.
现在，如果您进行了几个小时的锻炼，那么随着时间的推移，它会增加。
When you started doing it, you might be using 5% of your energy from protein, and then that might grow to 10 or so.
When you started doing it, you might be using 5% of your energy from protein, and then that might grow to 10 or so.
And that happens because you start running low on muscle glycogen.
And that happens because you start running low on muscle glycogen.
You start running low on liver glycogen.
您的肝糖原开始不足。
You start then having to pull in energy from another place.
然后你开始必须从另一个地方吸收能量。
So like as those numbers go down, you'll see an increased uptick of energy from fat as well as protein.
因此，随着这些数字的下降，您会发现脂肪和蛋白质中的能量增加。
Having said that, it's not a tremendous fuel source.
话虽如此，它并不是一个巨大的燃料来源。
It is only aerobic, so it has to be oxidized.
它只是有氧的，所以必须被氧化。
Those are the same thing.
这些是同一件事。
When I say oxidized, you use oxygen to burn something to make a fuel.
When I say oxidized, you use oxygen to burn something to make a fuel.
So it's not a significant contributor to energy in that regard, and unless you're talking ultramarathons or longer, and it is also not something that can enhance performance.
因此，从这方面来说，它并不是能量的重要贡献者，除非你正在谈论超级马拉松或更长时间，而且它也不是可以提高表现的东西。
And so we don't really need to talk much more about it than that.
所以我们真的不需要谈论更多。
In terms of fat as a fuel source, now, here's the fundamental difference.
就脂肪作为燃料来源而言，现在有根本的区别。
While carbohydrate starts anaerobically and finishes aerobically in the mitochondria You're using mostly the carbohydrate in the exercising muscle tissue.
虽然碳水化合物在线粒体中以无氧方式开始并以有氧方式结束，但您在运动肌肉组织中主要使用碳水化合物。
Eventually, you can pull from blood, and then you can pull from the liver.
最终，您可以从血液中提取，然后可以从肝脏中提取。
With fat, you have a tiny amount stored in the muscle, intramuscular triglycerides.
With fat, you have a tiny amount stored in the muscle, intramuscular triglycerides.
But the overwhelming majority of fuel you get from fat comes systemically.
But the overwhelming majority of fuel you get from fat comes systemically.
And so now we have a fundamental difference.
所以现在我们有了根本的区别。
We actually literally have a time problem.
我们实际上有一个时间问题。
I can get energy from carbohydrates faster because it is directly there.
I can get energy from carbohydrates faster because it is directly there.
If I go to pull it from fat, I've got to pull it from the rest of the body, which is why somebody who loses fat loses it from their entire body, despite the fact that they may be only exercising a couple of parts.
如果我要从脂肪中提取脂肪，我就必须从身体的其他部位提取它，这就是为什么减掉脂肪的人会从整个身体中减掉脂肪，尽管事实上他们可能只锻炼了几个部位。
So think about a runner, someone who lost a lot of fat running.
想想一个跑步者，一个在跑步中减掉大量脂肪的人。
You don't see them just lose fat in their legs.
你看不到他们只是减掉了腿部的脂肪。
It comes from their face and their neck and everywhere.
它来自他们的脸、脖子和任何地方。
Why?
为什么？
Because what you're going to do is pull fat from the entire system.
Because what you're going to do is pull fat from the entire system.
You're going to break it down through a process called lipolysis, which just means you break it down from the stored form.
你将通过一个称为脂肪分解的过程来分解它，这意味着你将它从储存的形式分解。
You put it in the blood as that glycerol backbone, which is that three-carbon backbone, in the individual fatty acids.
You put it in the blood as that glycerol backbone, which is that three-carbon backbone, in the individual fatty acids.
It's going to float through the blood.
它会在血液中漂浮。
There's a seven-step system here, but we'll skip it for now.
这里有一个七步系统，但我们现在跳过它。
It's going to have to get then uptaken into the muscle.
然后它必须被吸收到肌肉中。
In the muscle, then it has to get taken up and run into the mitochondria.
在肌肉中，它必须被吸收并进入线粒体。
Now, that backbone, that three-carbon glycerol backbone, is actually going to function almost exactly like the three-carbon pyruvate.
现在，该主链，即三碳甘油主链，实际上几乎与三碳丙酮酸完全相同。
Just get it into the mitochondria, cleave off one carbon, run it as acetyl-CoA, bada bing, bada boom.
只需将其进入线粒体，切掉一个碳，将其作为乙酰辅酶A运行，bada bing，badaoom。
Exact same thing.
完全一样的事情。
Super easy to metabolize, small enough to go through the mitochondrial membrane.
超级容易代谢，小到足以穿过线粒体膜。
The fatty acid chains become a problem.
脂肪酸链成为一个问题。
So if you have a chain that's longer than our eight or so carbons, it has to actually go through a special transporter on the cell wall to get in, and that's going to be limited by a thing called carnitine.
因此，如果你的链比我们的八个左右的碳更长，它实际上必须通过细胞壁上的特殊转运蛋白才能进入，而这将受到一种叫做肉碱的物质的限制。
And you're probably familiar with that as a supplement.
您可能熟悉它作为补充。
You may have talked about it.
您可能已经谈论过它。
There's a lot of places that make it.
有很多地方都能做到。
That's going to be a limiting factor.
这将成为一个限制因素。
If it is a smaller, what we call a short-chain or even a medium-chain triglyceride, which a lot of folks have heard of, MCT, that's what we're talking about.
如果它是较小的，我们所说的短链甚至中链甘油三酯，很多人都听说过MCT，这就是我们所说的。
That can actually go directly through because it's small enough to pass through, and you can use it immediately as an energy source.
那其实可以直接通过，因为它足够小，可以通过，你可以立即将它用作能源。
In either case, the way that you finally metabolize a fatty acid is a process where you would go through and cut off two carbons at a time.
无论哪种情况，最终代谢脂肪酸的过程都是一次切断两个碳的过程。
Why would you cut off two?
为什么要砍掉两个？
Because you're trying to make that two-carbon acetyl-CoA so you can run through that Krebs cycle again.
因为你正在尝试制造二碳乙酰辅酶A，这样你就可以再次进行克雷布斯循环。
Because you're cutting off two carbons at a time, we have a special name for that oxidation process.
因为您一次切断两个碳，所以我们为该氧化过程有一个特殊的名称。
It's called beta oxidation.
这称为β氧化。
That's exactly why we call it beta oxidation.
这正是我们称之为β氧化的原因。
Two carbons in, you cut it off to make that acetyl-CoA.
两个碳，你把它切掉就形成了乙酰辅酶A。
So you can notice the oxidation pathway, the electron transport pathway, is identical, whether you're talking about the carbohydrates or the fat.
所以你可以注意到，无论你谈论的是碳水化合物还是脂肪，氧化途径、电子传递途径都是相同的。
In fact, it doesn't even matter.
事实上，这根本不重要。
More to our point, if we're talking about simply fat loss, it really just is about running that electron transport chain.
更重要的是，如果我们谈论的是简单的减脂，那么它实际上只是运行电子传输链。
Whether it came from a carbohydrate original source or a fat original source, it ends up in the mitochondria as basically the exact same thing.
无论它来自碳水化合物原始来源还是脂肪原始来源，它最终进入线粒体的本质上都是完全相同的。
It then ends the end of metabolism as the same thing.
然后它以同样的方式结束新陈代谢的结束。
Remember, the final endpoint of carbohydrate metabolism is water, ATP, and CO2.
请记住，碳水化合物代谢的最终终点是水、ATP 和 CO2。
Do you want to guess the final endpoint of fat metabolism?
你想猜猜脂肪代谢的最终终点吗？
It's water, ATP, and CO2.
它是水、ATP 和 CO2。
So practical applications here.
所以这里有实际应用。
If you want to maximize fat loss, what type of training is best?
如果你想最大限度地减脂，什么类型的训练最好？
It really doesn't matter.
这真的没关系。
If you enjoy longer steady-state stuff, fantastic.
如果你喜欢更长的稳态东西，那就太棒了。
If you enjoy intervals, amazing.
如果你喜欢间隔，那就太棒了。
If you would like to do a combination, that's my personal preference, that's great, too.
如果你想做一个组合，那是我个人的喜好，那也很好。
You have a ton of options.
你有很多选择。
Pick what you think is a combination of challenging.
选择你认为具有挑战性的组合。
Not all exercise should be easy, but you will actually enjoy somewhat or you're willing to accept.
并非所有的锻炼都应该很容易，但您实际上会享受一些或您愿意接受。
And anything that you absolutely hate, don't do it.
任何你绝对讨厌的事情，都不要做。
Sometimes it is very difficult to do high-intensity training.
有时进行高强度训练是非常困难的。
You have to really be interested in doing it.
你必须真正有兴趣这样做。
If not, it ends up turning into moderate-intensity training.
如果没有，它最终会变成中等强度的训练。
You sort of just check the box, and it doesn't work that well if you're just checking the box.
你只是勾选了这个框，但如果你只是勾选了这个框，效果就不会那么好。
So if you're like, "Man, mentally, I don't have it in me today to get to a high heart rate and throw up and all that stuff," cool.
所以，如果你想，“伙计，精神上，我今天没有能力达到高心率、呕吐之类的东西，”那很酷。
But you can just do some moderate steady-state stuff, well, that's a win.
但你可以做一些适度的稳态事情，嗯，这是一个胜利。
Great.
伟大的。
If you're like, "Oh my gosh, more than 10 straight minutes and I'm so bored," and maybe you're also like, "I don't have 45 minutes.
如果你会想，“天哪，连续 10 分钟以上，我太无聊了”，也许你也会想，“我没有 45 分钟的时间。
I got to get this done in eight minutes." Great.
我必须在八分钟内完成这件事。”伟大的。
Go do some high-intensity intervals.
去做一些高强度的间歇训练。
Either option will be equally effective.
任何一种选择都同样有效。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
As you mentioned earlier, exercise is useful for aesthetic changes, functionality, and for longevity.
正如您之前提到的，锻炼对于审美变化、功能和长寿都有帮助。
But when thinking about exercise specifically for fat loss, I do have to ask this question.
但当考虑专门针对减脂的运动时，我确实不得不问这个问题。
I often hear from people that they prefer one type of exercise versus another for sake of fat loss, because certain forms of exercise make them very hungry.
我经常听到人们说，为了减肥，他们更喜欢一种运动而不是另一种运动，因为某些形式的运动会让他们非常饥饿。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I'm wondering whether or not there's any relationship between the intensity or type of exercise and the hunger stimulus.
我想知道运动的强度或类型与饥饿刺激之间是否存在任何关系。
Now, I don't have this problem because basically everything makes me hungry.
现在，我不再有这个问题了，因为基本上一切都让我感到饥饿。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And yet I'm also okay fasting for part of the day.
但我也可以在一天中的部分时间禁食。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I'm one of those pseudo-intermittent fasters.
我是那些伪间歇性禁食者之一。
Talk about what I mean by that, I just happen-
谈谈我的意思，我只是碰巧-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
to eat between 11:00 a.m.
上午 11:00 之间吃饭
and 8:00 p.m.
和晚上 8:00
naturally.
自然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I'm not religious about it, but I don't do it for any other reason except that that tends to be when I'm hungry, and I exercise outside of that in the morning, typically.
我对此并不虔诚，但我这样做没有任何其他原因，除了那往往是在我饿的时候，而且我通常在早上的时间之外锻炼。
In any case, is there a way that people can determine what type of exercise might be better or worse for them based on its appetite-stimulating or inhibiting effects?
无论如何，有没有一种方法可以让人们根据运动对食欲的刺激或抑制作用来确定哪种类型的运动对他们来说可能更好或更坏？
Because I also hear that some people will go for a long run and then they are, quote-unquote, "not hungry" for several hours afterwards.
因为我还听说有些人会跑很长一段路，然后他们在几个小时内“不饿”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Does that have anything to do with which fuels are being utilized during different forms of exercise?
这与不同形式的运动中使用的燃料有关系吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's actually a really good question.
这实际上是一个非常好的问题。
I don't know the The mechanisms that could explain that answer.
我不知道可以解释这个答案的机制。
What I can tell you is you hear the same comment for physical activity.
我可以告诉你的是，你也听到了同样的关于身体活动的评论。
In other words, people say, "Man, if I do this type of training, then I just am exhausted and I lay around the rest of the day.
换句话说，人们会说：“伙计，如果我进行这种类型的训练，那么我就会精疲力竭，剩下的时间我都会躺着。
So my total caloric expenditure is actually compromised as an aggregate because I'm down." The data would suggest, in general, that doesn't happen.
因此，我的总热量消耗实际上受到了损害，因为我的体力下降了。”数据表明，一般来说，这种情况不会发生。
So most of the time, we don't see a reduction in physical activity with either high intensity or steady-state training.
因此，大多数时候，无论是高强度训练还是稳态训练，我们都不会看到体力活动减少。
In fact, you generally see equal, if not increased, what's called NEAT.
事实上，您通常会看到所谓的 NEAT，即使没有增加，也是相等的。
So it's the non-exercising part of your day in addition to the basal metabolic rate.
因此，除了基础代谢率之外，它还包括一天中非运动的部分。
So physical activity-wise, you don't tend to be .
因此，就体力活动而言，您往往不会。
Now, hunger is a little bit of a different thing.
现在，饥饿有点不同了。
The answer here is I don't think we have time to actually do justice on this, so perhaps best to not get into this one.
这里的答案是，我认为我们没有时间真正公正地对待这一问题，所以也许最好不要介入这一问题。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Why don't we punt this down the road to our discussion about nutrition-
我们为什么不把这个放在我们关于营养的讨论中呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
specifically and weave back to it.
具体并编织回它。
So we'll earmark it for that.
所以我们将为此指定它。
Meanwhile, it sounds like if one is thinking purely in terms of burning calories-
与此同时，听起来如果一个人纯粹从燃烧卡路里的角度思考——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
and getting the health benefits of exercise to create a caloric deficit, to create fat loss, it doesn't matter whether or not they burn those calories using a form of exercise that relies predominantly on carbohydrate, fat, or protein.
并通过运动获得健康益处，以产生热量不足、减少脂肪，无论他们是否通过主要依赖碳水化合物、脂肪或蛋白质的运动形式燃烧这些卡路里，都没有关系。
Correct?
正确的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's not that it doesn't matter.
并不是说没关系。
It's that either one will work.
两者都可以。
Because when we say things like that, it doesn't mean they're actually identical.
因为当我们这样说时，并不意味着它们实际上是相同的。
There are some slight differences, and maybe those differences are important for some people and not others.
存在一些细微的差异，也许这些差异对某些人来说很重要，而对其他人来说则不然。
I'd say is either one is a viable strategy.
我想说的是，任何一个都是可行的策略。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Great.
太棒了。
What about protein as a fuel?
蛋白质作为燃料怎么样？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As an actual fuel, so here, let me give you an analogy.
作为实际的燃料，所以在这里我给大家打个比方。
Imagine that you were with me a few weeks ago in Southern Montana, and we were out in the wilderness for a week.
想象一下几周前你和我在蒙大拿州南部，我们在荒野里呆了一周。
Okay?
好的？
And it's cold out there, and you needed to make a fire.
而且外面很冷，你需要生火。
And if I said, "Look, you can pick any of these things.
如果我说：“听着，你可以选择这些东西中的任何一个。
There's some wood over there.
那边有一些木头。
We brought some newspaper, and then we brought a match, and we need to create a fire.
我们带了一些报纸，然后带了一根火柴，我们需要生火。
And we're going to use that fire to energy and heat up." Okay, I said, "Great." The very first place you would probably start to make that fire is the match.
我们将利用火来提供能量和加热。”好吧，我说：“太好了。”您可能首先开始生火的地方就是火柴。
You light the match, and any match, A, it's going to light immediately, but it's probably going to last five to 20 seconds, I don't know, before it burns out.
你点燃火柴，任何火柴，A，它都会立即点燃，但它可能会持续五到二十秒，我不知道，然后才会烧坏。
That's phosphocreatine.
That's phosphocreatine.
Real fast, real burns out.
真的很快，真的烧坏了。
If you were smart, you would take that match and then light the newspaper on fire.
如果你聪明的话，你会拿起那根火柴，然后点燃报纸。
Right?
正确的？
Now, if you were to burn a whole newspaper, it is more energy than you get with a match, but you still, I don't know.
Now, if you were to burn a whole newspaper, it is more energy than you get with a match, but you still, I don't know.
What's it going to take, a few minutes?
需要什么时间，几分钟吗？
Some number of minutes before an entire newspaper-
整份报纸发布前几分钟——
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Say five minutes
Say five minutes
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
burns up?
burns up?
Yeah, five.
Yeah, five.
I don't know, right?
我不知道，对吧？
Depends on which type of newspaper it is, I guess, right?
我想这取决于报纸的类型，对吗？
Amazing.
惊人的。
That's carbohydrate.
That's carbohydrate.
Right?
正确的？
If you were really smart, you would use that to then light a piece of wood on fire.
如果你真的很聪明，你会用它来点燃一块木头。
And a wood, if you've been in the wilderness, it could last hours, days.
而一片树林，如果你在荒野中，它可能会持续数小时、数天。
It's really quite unlimited.
这真的是相当无限的。
Your phosphocreatine storage is very limited, small.
你的磷酸肌酸储存量非常有限，很小。
Glycogen is a lot higher because you can store it in muscle, you can store it in other places.
糖原要高得多，因为你可以将其储存在肌肉中，也可以将其储存在其他地方。
So you have more, but not a lot.
所以你有更多，但不是很多。
Fat is unlimited.
脂肪是无限的。
The average person, if you're around, say, 70 kilos, 170 pounds or so, and you're moderately lean, maybe 15% body fat, nothing crazy, you probably have enough stored fat to create enough energy to survive for more than 30 days.
The average person, if you're around, say, 70 kilos, 170 pounds or so, and you're moderately lean, maybe 15% body fat, nothing crazy, you probably have enough stored fat to create enough energy to survive for more than 30 days.
Right?
正确的？
This would literally be if you ingested zero calories, you have enough fuel in your stored fat to keep you alive for certainly 30 days.
从字面上看，如果您摄入零卡路里，您储存的脂肪中就有足够的燃料让您存活 30 天。
You wouldn't feel good and all those things.
你不会感觉良好以及所有这些事情。
But energetically, basically, fat will never ever be your limiting factor to performance.
但基本上，从精力上来说，脂肪永远不会成为你表现的限制因素。
So when we start talking about, well, what limits my performance in these areas, you can just wipe fat off the list.
因此，当我们开始谈论限制我在这些领域表现的因素时，您可以将脂肪从列表中删除。
It will never be your limiting factor to any type of endurance performance.
It will never be your limiting factor to any type of endurance performance.
You simply have way too much.
你只是拥有太多了。
The only problem with fat is it's just too slow.
脂肪的唯一问题是它的速度太慢了。
I've got to mobilize it.
我必须动员它。
I've got to get it in the blood, move it, that whole thing.
我必须让它融入血液，移动它，整个事情。
Too slow.
太慢了。
So if I want to go faster, I will never be able to fully utilize fat, which is why we talked about earlier, you'll never see a situation in which somebody is 100% burning fat as a fuel and no percent carbohydrate.
所以如果我想跑得更快，我将永远无法充分利用脂肪，这就是为什么我们之前谈到的，你永远不会看到有人100%燃烧脂肪作为燃料而没有百分之碳水化合物的情况。
It's always going to be too slow.
它总是会太慢。
Highest you'll get, maybe 70-so percent.
你能得到的最高值，也许是百分之七十左右。
Protein in this equation is none of that.
这个方程中的蛋白质不是这样的。
Now, you may notice, how do you make paper?
现在，您可能会注意到，如何造纸？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Well, it's fibrous.
嗯，它是纤维状的。
You combine it with water.
将其与水混合。
It gets pressed, it gets compressed.
它受到挤压，它被压缩。
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It's made from wood.
它是用木头制成的。
How do you make a match?
你如何进行匹配？
It's made from wood.
它是用木头制成的。
What's carbohydrate?
什么是碳水化合物？
A chain of carbon.
碳链。
What's fat?
什么是脂肪？
A chain of carbon.
碳链。
These are similar molecules, right?
这些是相似的分子，对吧？
They're meant to give you pros and cons.
它们旨在为您提供优点和缺点。
It's very difficult to just light a log on fire without a lot of work.
It's very difficult to just light a log on fire without a lot of work.
You'd have to burn, burn, burn, burn.
你必须燃烧，燃烧，燃烧，燃烧。
So these are complementary systems that are really close to the same thing.
So these are complementary systems that are really close to the same thing.
Protein is none of those things.
蛋白质不是这些东西。
Protein is more like a piece of metal.
蛋白质更像是一块金属。
So if you were out in the woods with me and we were trying to make a fire, and you're like, "Hey, look, I found some old railroad over there.
So if you were out in the woods with me and we were trying to make a fire, and you're like, "Hey, look, I found some old railroad over there.
Let's throw that on there." I would probably look at you like you're crazy.
我们把它扔到那里吧。”我可能会像看疯子一样看着你。
Now, technically, can you melt metal?
现在，从技术上来说，你能熔化金属吗？
Sure.
当然。
But you're going to burn a lot of energy to try to get a little bit back out of the metal, and now you've also cost yourself a very, very valuable structure.
但是你会消耗大量的能量来试图从金属中回收一点能量，现在你也损失了自己一个非常非常有价值的结构。
So protein as a fuel source for exercise or metabolism is just an incredibly poor choice.
So protein as a fuel source for exercise or metabolism is just an incredibly poor choice.
Your body will do it, again, maybe five to 10%, but now you're burning a very valuable supply in a situation in which you don't know where there's ever going to be any more.
Your body will do it, again, maybe five to 10%, but now you're burning a very valuable supply in a situation in which you don't know where there's ever going to be any more.
Remember, protein is fairly transient.
请记住，蛋白质是相当短暂的。
You're not very good at storing it.
你不太擅长储存它。
You can store a ton of carbohydrate and an unlimited, literally, amount of fat.
You can store a ton of carbohydrate and an unlimited, literally, amount of fat.
So you just really need to disregard thinking about protein as a fuel source.
So you just really need to disregard thinking about protein as a fuel source.
Your body does not want to do it.
你的身体不想这样做。
You are not good at it.
你不擅长。
You can go through a process of gluconeogenesis from protein, make glucose from it.
You can go through a process of gluconeogenesis from protein, make glucose from it.
It's just very poor.
实在是太穷了。
You're not going to get much Out of the exchange, and you've burned your supply of metal, which is going to be very difficult.
You're not going to get much Out of the exchange, and you've burned your supply of metal, which is going to be very difficult.
It's a very high commodity in the woods or the wilderness to have something like metal.
It's a very high commodity in the woods or the wilderness to have something like metal.
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
For people that consume very low carbohydrate or zero carbohydrate diets, are they pulling more energy from muscle?
For people that consume very low carbohydrate or zero carbohydrate diets, are they pulling more energy from muscle?
So which I imagine is a conversion of amino acids into ready carbon chains.
So which I imagine is a conversion of amino acids into ready carbon chains.
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
In this particular case, once you've reached a certain level of adaptation, you've just gotten extremely good at generating glucose from other fashions, right?
In this particular case, once you've reached a certain level of adaptation, you've just gotten extremely good at generating glucose from other fashions, right?
So you can bias heavily towards fat adaptation.
所以你可能会严重偏向于脂肪适应。
The downside is, and we've seen this borne in the literature, you're going to perform slower.
缺点是，我们已经在文献中看到了这一点，你的表现会变慢。
So if you don't care about maximizing performance, especially over something where it is a maximal effort for a few minutes or something, then maybe you're not concerned, and that's absolutely great, especially for people just don't exercise.
So if you don't care about maximizing performance, especially over something where it is a maximal effort for a few minutes or something, then maybe you're not concerned, and that's absolutely great, especially for people just don't exercise.
Then, hey, geez, very little concern here.
然后，嘿，天啊，这里很少有人关心。
But if you're interested in your performance and you're wondering why you're just slugging it down, well, what you've done is you've down-regulated the ability, literally the enzymes responsible for that entire anaerobic glycolysis portion, they get down-regulated, which means there's not as much around anymore.
But if you're interested in your performance and you're wondering why you're just slugging it down, well, what you've done is you've down-regulated the ability, literally the enzymes responsible for that entire anaerobic glycolysis portion, they get down-regulated, which means there's not as much around anymore.
And so you get really bad and slow at using carbohydrates as a fuel source.
所以你在使用碳水化合物作为燃料来源方面变得非常糟糕和缓慢。
So it's a very poor strategy for people in an anaerobic-based sport or who like that type of activity.
So it's a very poor strategy for people in an anaerobic-based sport or who like that type of activity.
Again, if you don't care, no problem.
再说一次，如果你不在乎，没问题。
If you don't exercise at all, then you really have no problem there, which is actually why a high-fat, low-carbohydrate nutrition strategy for people who don't do much physical activity, it's very effective.
If you don't exercise at all, then you really have no problem there, which is actually why a high-fat, low-carbohydrate nutrition strategy for people who don't do much physical activity, it's very effective.
It is a really good strategy for weight management, for energy stabilization throughout the day, and the research would very much support that.
It is a really good strategy for weight management, for energy stabilization throughout the day, and the research would very much support that.
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
In my observation, I would agree.
根据我的观察，我同意。
I've tried low-carbohydrate diets of severely limiting or completely eliminating carbohydrate, and after about two or three days, I feel pretty lousy, but mostly because I want to train very intensely-
I've tried low-carbohydrate diets of severely limiting or completely eliminating carbohydrate, and after about two or three days, I feel pretty lousy, but mostly because I want to train very intensely-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
in the gym.
在健身房里。
In addition to doing longer runs, I tend to do all of those things across the week.
除了进行较长距离的跑步之外，我还倾向于在一周内完成所有这些事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
But I've also observed and, in fact, know several people that love the very low carbohydrate, AKA ketogenic-type diet.
但我也观察到，事实上，我认识一些喜欢极低碳水化合物（又称生酮饮食）的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's right.
没错。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
They're not doing ketogenic diets for mental health reasons per se.
他们进行生酮饮食本身并不是出于心理健康原因。
But indeed, those people tend to do very limited exercise, or they tend to do a lot of long endurance, but low intensity long endurance.
但事实上，这些人往往做的运动非常有限，或者他们倾向于做大量的长耐力，但低强度的长耐力。
These are the, "I walk to get my exercise" types, and they do indeed walk a lot.
这些人是“我走路是为了锻炼身体”的类型，而且他们确实经常走路。
And some of them manage to control their weight very readily and like that diet for that reason.
And some of them manage to control their weight very readily and like that diet for that reason.
When we had Layne Norton on the podcast, he pointed out quite aptly that in order to lose weight, you have to restrict something.
当莱恩·诺顿出现在播客中时，他非常恰当地指出，为了减肥，你必须限制一些东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of course.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Either time or macronutrients, et cetera, to arrive at that sub-caloric threshold.
要么是时间，要么是大量营养素，等等，才能达到低于热量的阈值。
Get below the-
低于-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
sub-maintenance threshold.
子维护阈值。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I guess one of the things I want to point out is this should be received as, again, not a this is better or worse.
我想我想指出的一件事是，这应该被视为，再次，而不是这是更好或更糟。
This is just you now have a ton of options.
这只是你现在有很多选择。
So whatever personal preference, other factors, you get to craft this strategy of performance, aesthetics, and health based on your personal preferences.
So whatever personal preference, other factors, you get to craft this strategy of performance, aesthetics, and health based on your personal preferences.
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
At this point, I'd like to go back to our classic list of nine adaptations that exercise can induce.
此刻，我想回到我们的经典清单，列出运动可以诱发的九种适应。
The first four, of course, being largely unrelated to today's conversation, but that were covered in the episode that we did on strength, speed, and hypertrophy.
The first four, of course, being largely unrelated to today's conversation, but that were covered in the episode that we did on strength, speed, and hypertrophy.
So just to remind people, the nine adaptations are, number one, skill and technique, two, speed, three, power, which is speed times force, four, strength, and five, hypertrophy.
So just to remind people, the nine adaptations are, number one, skill and technique, two, speed, three, power, which is speed times force, four, strength, and five, hypertrophy.
Today, we're talking about the remaining adaptations on that list, starting with muscular endurance, followed by anaerobic capacity, followed by maximal aerobic output, and finishing at number nine with long-duration exercise.
Today, we're talking about the remaining adaptations on that list, starting with muscular endurance, followed by anaerobic capacity, followed by maximal aerobic output, and finishing at number nine with long-duration exercise.
So if we could start with muscular endurance, this would be number six on the list of nine adaptations.
因此，如果我们可以从肌肉耐力开始，这将是九项适应措施中的第六项。
Muscular endurance.
肌肉耐力。
How do I build muscular endurance?
如何增强肌肉耐力？
Why should I build muscular endurance?
为什么我应该增强肌肉耐力？
And just to remind me, what fuel sources are predominating when I'm training for muscular endurance?
只是提醒我，当我训练肌肉耐力时，哪些燃料来源占主导地位？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
So remember, muscular endurance is something that's going to be generally in a local muscle.
所以请记住，肌肉耐力通常存在于局部肌肉中。
It is not a cardiovascular or systemic issue, and it tends to be something in the neighborhood of, say, five to maybe even up to 50 repetitions.
这不是心血管或系统性问题，而且往往是重复 5 次甚至 50 次左右的问题。
So the classic example we give here is how many push-ups can you do in a row?
那么我们这里举的经典例子就是你能连续做多少个俯卧撑？
Most people are going to land somewhere in that range I just said.
大多数人都会落在我刚才说的这个范围内的某个地方。
How many sit-ups can you do in a minute?
一分钟可以做多少个仰卧起坐？
How many pull-ups?
引体向上有多少个？
How long can you hang on a bar as a dead hang?
您可以在杠铃上静悬吊多久？
Things like that.
诸如此类的事情。
That's muscular endurance.
这就是肌肉耐力。
Muscular endurance is not a mile run or a marathon or anything like that.
肌肉耐力不是一英里跑或马拉松或类似的事情。
So how long can I stand without breaking posture?
那么，在不破坏姿势的情况下，我能站立多久呢？
This is muscular endurance.
这就是肌肉耐力。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
A plank, a wall sit.
一块木板，一堵墙坐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
Yes.
是的。
Love all these things, okay?
喜欢所有这些东西，好吗？
Now, the reason I took you on that big, long metabolism journey is so I could help you understand exactly how to train this factor or any of these factors with a more comprehensive understanding of what's happening.
现在，我带你踏上这段漫长而漫长的新陈代谢之旅的原因是，我可以帮助你准确地了解如何训练这个因素或任何这些因素，并更全面地了解正在发生的事情。
Meaning, thinking back to the metabolism, if I'm going to ask my triceps to do 50 push-ups in a row, what's going to be my limiting factor?
意思是，回想一下新陈代谢，如果我要让我的三头肌连续做 50 个俯卧撑，什么会是我的限制因素？
Am I going to run out of fat?
我的脂肪会耗尽吗？
No chance.
没有机会。
Am I going to run out of glycogen?
我的糖原会耗尽吗？
No chance.
没有机会。
That's way too few of repetitions.
这样的重复次数太少了。
You have a lot left there.
你还剩下很多。
So what's going to be the thing that stops me from getting 51 repetitions?
那么什么会阻止我重复 51 次呢？
Either you're going to have too high of a pH rise, so too much acid buildup, or you're going to have a problem clearing the waste.
要么 pH 值上升太高，酸积聚太多，要么清除废物时遇到问题。
So really, this is two factors, dealing with acid buildup and getting acid out
所以实际上，这是两个因素，处理酸积聚和排出酸
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Of the muscle tissue and in the circulation, because you have plenty of ability to handle that small amount of acid buildup in your entire body.
肌肉组织和循环系统，因为您有足够的能力处理整个身体中积聚的少量酸。
It's just you can't handle it in that tiny spot.
只是你无法在那个小地方处理它。
Now, I picked the tricep for a very specific reason.
现在，我出于一个非常具体的原因选择了三头肌。
You're going to deal with more pain when you use a large muscle group like your quads or your glutes than you are with a small muscle group.
当你使用股四头肌或臀肌等大肌肉群时，你会比使用小肌肉群时承受更多的疼痛。
For example, nobody ever threw up after arm day, but a lot of people throw up after leg day.
例如，没有人在手臂日后呕吐，但很多人在腿部日后呕吐。
Why is that?
这是为什么？
Look at the total amount of waste that you're dumping into your system when you have quadrupled or 10X'd the muscle size.
看看当你的肌肉大小增加四倍或十倍时，你倾倒到你的系统中的废物总量。
Small muscle groups are only really going to be challenged in that local area.
小肌肉群只会在该局部区域真正受到挑战。
Large ones will dump so much waste into the system that you'll want to avoid that as quickly as possible, and that's one of the reasons why you throw up after hard exercise.
大的垃圾会向系统中倾倒大量废物，您会希望尽快避免这种情况，这也是您在剧烈运动后呕吐的原因之一。
Great.
伟大的。
So the reason I'm laughing, because I don't think I've ever thrown up from a weight training session, and so it's making me wonder if I've ever trained that hard.
所以我笑的原因是因为我认为我从来没有因为举重训练而呕吐过，所以这让我想知道我是否曾经训练过那么努力。
I've received or obtained the progress that I've wanted to generally over time, not every week, every workout, every month, but certainly over the 30-plus years that I've been weight training, I've achieved the results I've wanted.
随着时间的推移，我已经收到或获得了我想要的进步，不是每周、每次锻炼、每个月，但肯定的是，在我进行重量训练的 30 多年里，我已经达到了我想要的结果。
I have, however, vomited after a long run when I didn't hydrate well.
然而，我在长距离跑步后由于没有很好地补充水分而呕吐了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, sure.
哦，当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Or if I drank too much water.
或者如果我喝了太多水。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Oh, sure.
哦，当然。
Too much water, yeah, you'll get that out quick.
水太多了，很快就可以倒掉。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Right.
对。
I just want to be clear because I think some people are getting the picture that if they're not vomiting at the end-
我只是想澄清一下，因为我认为有些人已经意识到，如果他们最后没有呕吐——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, no
不，不
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
after their leg workout, that they're not training according to your standards.
在腿部锻炼之后，他们没有按照您的标准进行训练。
Again, by the way, Dr. Andy Galpin runs experiments in his lab.
顺便说一句，安迪·加尔平博士在他的实验室里进行了实验。
He's recruiting subjects all the time.
他一直在招募受试者。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Also known as my graduate students.
也被称为我的研究生。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
That's right.
没错。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
In any event, sorry to interrupt, but I felt it was a-
无论如何，很抱歉打扰，但我觉得这是-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great
太棒了
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
necessary interruption.
必要的中断。
So muscular endurance, there's plenty of fuel.
如此肌肉耐力，就有充足的燃料。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Plenty of fuel.
充足的燃料。
You manage acid buildup, and you also need to get that fuel out of you.
你要控制胃酸的积聚，同时你还需要把这些燃料排出体外。
That's going to be a capillarization issue.
这将是一个毛细血管化问题。
So the way that we can think about this is capillaries surround your muscle, and the whole point of them is so that blood can come into them.
所以我们可以这样想：毛细血管围绕着你的肌肉，它们的全部意义就是让血液可以进入它们。
They hit this capillarization.
他们发生了毛细血管化。
That actually slows the diffusion rate of blood down, and so you can exchange nutrients in and get waste products out, and then we get things back into circulation.
这实际上减慢了血液的扩散速度，因此您可以交换营养物质并排出废物，然后我们让物质重新回到循环中。
So the more of those you have, the better you are at dispersing any of these waste products buildup, whether it's CO2 or the acid.
因此，您拥有的废物越多，您就越能更好地分散这些废物堆积物，无论是二氧化碳还是酸。
So the adaptation you're looking for here is an increase in capillarization, potentially a slight increase in mitochondria, but the time is too fast.
因此，您在这里寻找的适应是毛细血管化的增加，线粒体可能略有增加，但时间太快了。
Right?
正确的？
So we're going to be able to need to do these 50 repetitions in, say, under a minute or something like that.
所以我们需要在一分钟之内完成这 50 次重复。
So getting the mobilization into the mitochondria, getting fuel that way, too slow.
因此，将能量动员到线粒体中，以这种方式获取燃料，速度太慢了。
It's not really going to get our performance here.
我们在这里的表演并不会真正得到体现。
So what are strategies to increase acid buffering ability and then capillarization?
那么增加酸缓冲能力然后毛细血管化的策略是什么？
So on the capillarization side, you simply need to train at that ability.
因此，在毛细血管化方面，您只需要训练这种能力即可。
So you go close to failure and practice that often.
所以你会接近失败并经常练习。
That alone will increase blood flow to that local area, which will take you through your process of increasing capillarization.
仅此一点就会增加该局部区域的血流量，这将引导您完成增加毛细血管化的过程。
Easy peasy.
简单易行。
Specificity.
特异性。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Andy there.
安迪在那儿。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Just to briefly interrupt, I find it remarkable, although not surprising given how amazing the human body is, that simply by doing some movement repeated, like a wall sit or pushups or dips for that matter, repeatedly over and over and over until you reach that failure point-
简单地打断一下，我发现这是很了不起的，尽管考虑到人体有多么神奇，这并不奇怪，只需重复做一些动作，比如靠墙坐、俯卧撑或臂屈伸，一遍又一遍地重复，直到你达到那个失败点——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
or that quaking point in the case of a wall sit, that provides a stimulus for more capillaries to be built into the system.
或者是靠墙的情况下的震动点，它会刺激系统中建立更多的毛细血管。
Literally, the production or the trafficking of endothelial cells, which make up the capillaries and-
从字面上看，是构成毛细血管的内皮细胞的产生或运输——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly
正是如此
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
allow basically more little pipes to feed the system with oxygen and remove waste products.
基本上允许更多的小管道为系统提供氧气并清除废物。
Correct?
正确的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like irrigation.
就像灌溉一样。
Right?
正确的？
Imagine you had a giant field, and you had two big pipes running down the outside.
想象一下，你有一个巨大的田地，并且有两条大管道从外面延伸出来。
Well, in fact, if you want to make sure water gets evenly dispersed across the entire field, you'll have a bunch of offshooting little pipes, and the more of those you have, the more coverage you get.
好吧，事实上，如果你想确保水均匀地分布在整个田地里，你就会有一堆分支的小管道，而且你拥有的管道越多，覆盖范围就越大。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Do we know what the specific signal is that says, "Hey, I failed at this.
我们知道“嘿，我在这件事上失败了”的具体信号是什么。
We need more capillaries"?
我们需要更多的毛细血管”？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I actually don't know what that is.
我其实不知道那是什么。
I would speculate it's a combination of acidity as well as carbon dioxide, and probably some nitric oxide stuff happening there, but I actually don't know.
我推测它是酸度和二氧化碳的组合，可能还存在一些一氧化氮，但我实际上不知道。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I'm guessing nobody knows for sure because we still don't know, for instance, what the exact signal is for hypertrophy.
我猜没有人确切知道，因为我们仍然不知道，例如，肥大的确切信号是什么。
It's kind of an amazing situation.
这是一种奇妙的情况。
We know the requirements for getting the result-
我们知道获得结果的要求 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Totally
完全
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
we want.
我们想要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
But we still don't know what the specific signal is.
但我们仍然不知道具体的信号是什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
In any event, what I'm hearing is building more capillaries is great for enhancing muscular endurance, and the way to get more capillaries into those muscles is to train for muscular endurance by getting close to failure or to some point where you simply can't continue, for whatever reason.
无论如何，我听到的是建立更多的毛细血管对于增强肌肉耐力非常有用，而让更多的毛细血管进入这些肌肉的方法是通过接近力竭或达到某种程度而无法继续（无论出于何种原因）来训练肌肉耐力。
Could you give us an example of what a reasonable training protocol might be in terms of the classic Galpin list now of-
您能否给我们举个例子，说明根据经典 Galpin 列表，合理的训练方案可能是什么——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
exercise choice, maybe a few options-
练习选择，也许有几个选择——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
order, volume, and frequency?
顺序、数量和频率？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
What should we be doing?
我们应该做什么？
How often should we be doing it?
我们应该多久做一次？
And for instance, should I do wall sits to failure, then pushups to failure?
例如，我应该先做靠墙坐到力竭，然后再做俯卧撑到力竭吗？
Given that this is a local process, I'm guessing that if I do pushups to failure, I'm not going to increase the number of capillaries in my legs very much.
鉴于这是一个局部过程，我猜测如果我做俯卧撑失败，我腿部的毛细血管数量不会增加太多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct.
正确。
So you nailed it.
所以你成功了。
Exercise choice is high precision here.
这里的运动选择是高精度的。
So pick the muscle group and the exact sequencing and movement pattern you want.
因此，请选择您想要的肌肉群以及确切的顺序和运动模式。
High precision.
精度高。
This is the thing.
就是这样。
If you want to get better at a plank, hold a plank.
如果你想在平板支撑上做得更好，就握住平板支撑。
You want to do more pushups, do more pushups.
你想做更多俯卧撑，多做俯卧撑。
You can do some other stuff that's complementary, but really this is a high precision game.
你可以做一些其他的补充，但实际上这是一个高精度的游戏。
Do the exact same thing for exercise choice.
对于运动选择也做同样的事情。
Very simple there.
那里很简单。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Okay.
好的。
In terms of exercise order, I suppose this dovetails with volume.
就运动顺序而言，我认为这与运动量相吻合。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Can I combine training, let's say, wall sits for my quads and nearby muscle groups, and then do pushups?
我可以结合训练，比如说，针对股四头肌和附近肌肉群的靠墙坐姿，然后做俯卧撑吗？
to failure, and then also do some pulling exercise to failure?
到力竭，然后还做一些拉力练习到力竭？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Again, pick the exercises you want, the movement patterns you want to do, and do them.
再次，选择你想要的练习、你想要做的运动模式，然后去做。
The order almost doesn't matter with the one caveat.
顺序几乎与一个警告无关。
With larger muscle groups, particularly, again, multiple leg activities, that will induce a small amount of systemic fatigue.
对于较大的肌肉群，特别是多次腿部活动，会引起少量的全身疲劳。
And so if you, I guess, theoretically, wanted to maximize your push-up number, and you did a whole bunch of, say, split squats, and you just did those and you did lunges for a mile or something like that, you might actually slightly compromise, you might not, but you might slightly compromise your ability to do as many pull-ups in a row or hold a bent-over row or something like that.
所以，我想，理论上，如果你想要最大化你的俯卧撑次数，并且你做了一大堆，比如说分腿深蹲，你只是做了这些，然后你做了一英里或类似的事情，你实际上可能会稍微妥协，你可能不会，但你可能会稍微妥协你连续做尽可能多的引体向上或保持弯腰划船或类似的事情的能力。
So if you really cared about that level, then you maybe want to do the one that's most important first.
因此，如果您真的关心该级别，那么您可能想要首先执行最重要的级别。
In general, my recommendation, though, is to do the bigger muscle group first.
不过，总的来说，我的建议是首先锻炼较大的肌肉群。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
How many sets and how often should one perform training for muscular endurance and when?
肌肉耐力训练应该进行多少组、多久一次以及何时进行？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, the lovely part here is we've moved down the spectrum past hypertrophy.
现在，可爱的部分是我们已经不再是肥大了。
You don't need a lot of load here.
这里不需要太多负载。
In fact, the load only needs to be at or slightly above what you want to move.
事实上，负载只需等于或略高于您想要移动的负载即可。
So if you want to get better at moving 50% of your one-rep max, you don't really need to train much more than 50, maybe 55 or 60% of your one-rep max, because if you go higher than that, the repetition count's going to fall, and you're no longer going to be training muscular endurance.
因此，如果你想更好地完成一次最大次数的 50%，那么你实际上不需要训练超过一次最大次数的 50%，也许是 55% 或 60%，因为如果你的次数超过这个数字，重复次数就会下降，你就不再训练肌肉耐力了。
So you just need to stay right around that number that you want to work on.
因此，您只需保持在您想要处理的数字附近即可。
So again, if the target is doing more pull-ups, and assuming that you have the strength to do it, you check that box, you simply need to practice the repetition range that you want to be in.
再说一次，如果目标要做更多的引体向上，并且假设你有足够的力量去做，那么你选中该框，你只需要练习你想要的重复范围。
That's all it takes.
仅此而已。
You can repeat that a number of times, but because, remember, the volume is fairly low, the load is very low, you can actually repeat these quite frequently.
您可以重复多次，但请记住，因为音量相当低，负载非常低，所以您实际上可以非常频繁地重复这些操作。
So you won't get extremely sore from muscular endurance relative to traditional hypertrophy straining because the load is very light.
因此，与传统的肥大训练相比，您不会因肌肉耐力而感到极度酸痛，因为负荷非常轻。
So you can do these more frequently if you would like.
因此，如果您愿意，可以更频繁地执行这些操作。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
More frequently, such as?
更频繁的是，比如？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You could do it three or four times a week, easy, if you would like.
如果你愿意的话，你可以一周做三到四次，很简单。
You don't necessarily need to.
你不一定需要。
Three days a week per muscle group is probably fine here.
每个肌肉群每周三天可能就可以了。
If you wanted to do more sets on a given day and do less days, that would be fine.
如果你想在某一天做更多的组数并减少几天的训练量，那就没问题了。
So if you wanted to do two days a week and you, say, wanted to do, let's say you could do 25 push-ups, and the goal is to get to 30 push-ups, just as an example.
因此，如果您想每周做两天，并且您想做，假设您可以做 25 个俯卧撑，而目标是达到 30 个俯卧撑，仅作为示例。
You might say, "Okay.
你可能会说：“好吧。
I'm going to do sets of 17, and I'm going to do three sets of that.
我要做 17 组，其中三组。
I'm going to do that three days a week." That's going to build up quite a bit.
我每周都会这样做三天。”这将会积累很多。
Or you could say, "Look, I'm going to do a set basically to failure.
或者你可以说，“听着，我要做一组基本上会失败。
I'm going to recover and do one or two sets at, say, 80%, and I'll do that twice a week." That's going to push the pace pretty well.
我会恢复并以 80% 的速度做一到两组，我会每周做两次。”这将很好地加快步伐。
You're going to have a lot of gains from that.
你将会从中获得很多收获。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And again, this is not about hypertrophy.
再说一次，这与肥大无关。
This is about muscular endurance.
这是关于肌肉耐力的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct.
正确。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So I do want to emphasize, and again, please correct me if I'm talking out of line here.
所以我想再次强调，如果我在这里说得不合时宜，请纠正我。
I do want to emphasize that because we mentioned pull-ups, if you can't get 25 pull-ups and you're doing 10, you're training for hypertrophy.
我确实想强调，因为我们提到了引体向上，如果你做不到 25 个引体向上，而你只做了 10 个，那么你正在训练肌肥大。
You're not training for muscular endurance per se.
你训练本身并不是为了肌肉耐力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, remember, there's a big crossover here.
好吧，请记住，这里有一个很大的交叉。
So anytime we're talking past 15 reps, we're technically in hypertrophy and muscular endurance.
因此，只要我们谈论超过 15 次，从技术上讲，我们就处于增肌和肌肉耐力阶段。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Got it.
明白了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So here's the common mistake.
这是常见的错误。
I don't want to get bulky, so I'm going to go lighter and do more reps.
我不想变得笨重，所以我会变得更轻，做更多的次数。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And then people grow.
然后人就会成长。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then you landed still right in the middle of hypertrophy range.
然后你仍然落在肥大范围的中间。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So for people who are like, "Oh my gosh, every time I lift weights, I blow up.
所以对于那些会说“天啊，每次我举重的时候，我都会爆炸。
I go lighter, I do more reps, and I..." You're still right in the hypertrophy zone.
我变得更轻，我做了更多次数，而且我……”你仍然处于肥大区。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
They'd actually be much better off training very heavy in the one-to-three rep range.
事实上，如果他们在 1 到 3 次的重复范围内进行大重量训练，效果会更好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Bingo.
宾果游戏。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
They'd get really strong, and they wouldn't grow much.
他们会变得非常强大，但不会成长太多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
So tell me if this is a reasonable protocol for what I'm going to call the typical person.
那么请告诉我，对于我所说的典型人来说，这是否是一个合理的协议。
In my mind, the typical person is somebody who hopefully is doing resistance training, hitting that 10 sets per muscle group per week minimum-
在我看来，典型的人是希望进行阻力训练的人，每周每个肌肉群至少进行 10 组——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
to maintain or build strength and hypertrophy, but is also doing some long-duration training that we'll talk about in a little bit.
保持或增强力量和肥大，但也进行一些长期训练，我们稍后会讨论。
Maybe throwing in a high-intensity workout here or there, some sprints, maybe some plyometrics, some skill-based training.
也许在这里或那里进行高强度锻炼，一些冲刺，也许一些增强式训练，一些基于技能的训练。
They're doing a bunch of different things-
他们正在做很多不同的事情——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
to be what I would call all-around fit.
成为我所说的全能合身。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
They're not training for any specific event or trying to maximize any one of the nine adaptations to the exclusion of the others.
他们并不是为了任何特定的事件而训练，也不是试图最大化九种适应中的任何一种，而排除其他适应。
That person decide, okay, after they do their longer run, they're going to do a plank to max duration, they're going to do a wall sit to max duration, and they're going to do push-ups to max duration.
那个人决定，好吧，在他们进行长距离跑步后，他们将做平板支撑至最大持续时间，他们将做墙坐至最大持续时间，他们将做俯卧撑至最大持续时间。
And then also do that same workout before they do their high-intensity interval training some other point during the week, and then maybe even do it again on their so-called rest day.
然后在一周中的其他时间点进行高强度间歇训练之前也进行相同的锻炼，然后甚至可能在所谓的休息日再次进行同样的锻炼。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Just a real quick five minutes of-
只需短短五分钟——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure
当然可以
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
and in doing so, build more capillaries into the relevant muscle groups and build their muscular endurance.
在此过程中，可以在相关肌肉群中建立更多的毛细血管，并增强他们的肌肉耐力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Without eating into their overall recovery too much.
不会对他们的整体恢复造成太大影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Too much, yeah.
太多了，是的。
So again, the nice part about this is they don't hammer you too much.
再说一遍，这件事的好处是他们不会对你造成太多的打击。
You're not going to get tremendously sore if you keep the load light.
如果你保持轻负荷，你就不会感到非常疼痛。
The only switch I would make there is I would probably do them after your interval rather than before, so you can make sure you keep quality there, and you're not compromised by a local muscular endurance when you're actually trying to get a more systemic fatigue with something like a higher intensity interval training.
我唯一要做的改变是，我可能会在你的间歇训练之后而不是之前进行这些训练，这样你就可以确保你保持训练质量，并且当你实际上试图通过更高强度的间歇训练来获得更全身性的疲劳时，你不会受到局部肌肉耐力的影响。
So that would work fantastic.
这样效果会很棒。
The only other variable we haven't hit on here is progression, and this is very simple.
我们在这里没有提到的唯一另一个变量是进度，这非常简单。
Try to add a rep or two per week.
尝试每周增加一到两次代表。
That's really all you have to go after.
这确实是你所需要追求的。
So if you're up to 22 this week, try to hit 23 next week.
因此，如果您本周达到 22 分，请尝试下周达到 23 分。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Or for wall sits and planks, that would mean add time.
或者对于墙坐和木板，这意味着需要增加时间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Time, yep.
时间，是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if you run into a wall there, just like the same concepts we talked about with strength or hypertrophy, back it down to more like in the 80% or 85% range and accumulate a lot more practice That's going to help a lot with capitalization as well as acid buffering.
如果你在那里碰壁，就像我们讨论的力量或肥大的概念一样，将其降低到 80% 或 85% 的范围，并积累更多的练习，这将对资本化和酸缓冲有很大帮助。
So you're going to continue to give yourself signals for upregulation of the processes needed for that, and it's not always pushing you to the end failure.
因此，你将继续向自己发出上调所需过程的信号，并且它并不总是将你推向最终的失败。
Just like we don't want to always go to failure with strength, and we don't want to always go to failure with high-intensity intervals either.
就像我们不想总是在强度上失败一样，我们也不希望总是在高强度间歇中失败。
Same thing would be happening here.
同样的事情也会发生在这里。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
What about anaerobic capacity?
无氧能力怎么样？
How should people train for anaerobic capacity?
人们应该如何训练无氧能力？
What exactly are they training for?
他们到底训练的目的是什么？
Meaning, what is the structural or cellular adaptation or adaptations that are occurring that allow for increases in anaerobic capacity?
意思是，正在发生的允许增加无氧能力的结构或细胞适应是什么？
And why are increases in anaerobic capacity good for us, even if we're a "endurance athlete" or we are a recreational exerciser who is not interested in building more muscle speed or things that I typically associate with anaerobic capacity?
为什么无氧能力的增加对我们有好处，即使我们是一名“耐力运动员”，或者我们是一名休闲锻炼者，对增强肌肉速度或我通常与无氧能力相关的事物不感兴趣？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So this is really, really fun.
所以这真的非常非常有趣。
Remember, anaerobic capacity is the total amount of work you can do for something like seconds to a few minutes, and this is extremely high levels of fatigue, the highest you're really going to see.
请记住，无氧能力是您在几秒钟到几分钟内可以完成的总工作量，这是非常高的疲劳程度，是您真正会看到的最高水平。
And by fatigue here, I mean acid buildup byproducts, not fatigue as in like mentally, I don't want to do this anymore.
这里所说的疲劳，我指的是酸堆积的副产品，而不是精神上的疲劳，我不想再这样做了。
So if we just think about the energetics for a second, I'm going to do, say-- Let's take a really easy example of people have done that thing where you'll go to the track, and you sprint the straightaways, and you walk the corners.
因此，如果我们只考虑一下能量学，我会说——让我们举一个非常简单的例子，人们已经做过这样的事情，你会去赛道，然后在直道上冲刺，然后走过弯道。
Remember that sort of thing?
还记得那种事吗？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Tabatas, 30 on, 30 off, things like this.
Tabatas，30 元，30 元，诸如此类。
This is what we're talking about in this kind of anaerobic capacity area.
这就是我们在这种无氧能力领域所讨论的内容。
Now, here's what's going to happen.
现在，这就是将要发生的事情。
Is fat going to be your limiting?
脂肪会成为你的限制吗？
No. We have already made that clear, right?
不，我们已经说清楚了，对吧？
What about carbohydrates?
那么碳水化合物呢？
Well, if it's a single bout or two or three bouts, probably not.
好吧，如果是一场或两场或三场比赛，可能不会。
But if you're doing this for a long time, say you're going to go 30 on, 30 off for 20 rounds, you may actually start reaching a point of running out of muscle glycogen.
但如果你长时间这样做，比如说你要进行 20 轮 30 次，30 次关，你实际上可能会开始达到肌糖原耗尽的程度。
In any of those cases, though, you're going to be running into an acid problem.
但在任何一种情况下，您都会遇到胃酸问题。
If you were to continue to do this multiple repetitions, in addition to running low on muscle glycogen, you're also going to start running into oxygen transportation problems.
如果你继续重复多次，除了肌糖原不足之外，你还会开始遇到氧气输送问题。
Because you're building up a lot of byproducts, you got to continue.
因为你正在积累很多副产品，所以你必须继续下去。
You will actually cruise into aerobic glycolysis.
您实际上将进入有氧糖酵解。
This is exactly why the community that I have worked a lot with, professional fighters, very high-level boxers, world champions, UFC fighters.
这正是我与职业拳击手、非常高水平的拳击手、世界冠军、UFC 拳击手等社区进行了大量合作的原因。
It is a five-minute round that you're going to do five times.
这是一个五分钟的回合，您要做五次。
This is for a world championship fight, so you get one-minute break in between.
这是一场世界冠军赛，所以中间有一分钟的休息时间。
So imagine going like 30 on, 30 off for five minutes, getting a one-minute break, and doing that five times.
想象一下，5 分钟内进行 30 次训练，休息 30 次，然后休息一分钟，然后重复五次。
Even though the individual bouts are 30 seconds long, the entire thing lasts so long it is primarily aerobic.
尽管单场比赛时长为 30 秒，但整个比赛持续时间太长，主要是有氧运动。
You have to have both capacities.
你必须具备这两种能力。
You got to get really high anaerobic.
你必须达到非常高的无氧水平。
You also have to have a lot of aerobic going on.
你还必须进行大量的有氧运动。
You're going to start running into limitations because of heart rate, stroke volume, and then even potentially ventilation.
由于心率、每搏输出量甚至潜在的通气量，您将开始遇到限制。
The need for oxygen to be able to come in and clear the carbon dioxide totally out of the system becomes a problem because not only are you having so much buildup for such a long time, you're also using multiple muscle groups.
需要氧气才能进入并完全清除系统中的二氧化碳，这成为一个问题，因为您不仅在这么长的时间内积聚了这么多，而且还使用了多个肌肉群。
So now this is a very important distinction.
所以现在这是一个非常重要的区别。
Muscular endurance tends to be localized.
肌肉耐力往往是局部的。
Now, this is not.
现在，这不是。
If you're doing these intervals, you're on an assault bike, you're sprinting up a hill, you're grappling with somebody, you have a lot of muscles being involved, which means all of that waste is being dumped into the central part.
如果你正在进行这些间歇训练，你骑着一辆突击自行车，你正在冲刺上山，你正在与某人扭打，你有很多肌肉参与其中，这意味着所有的废物都被倾倒到中心部分。
You have to clear it, and by clear it, I now mean not out of the muscle, I mean out of the body.
你必须清除它，而清除它，我现在的意思是不是脱离肌肉，我的意思是脱离身体。
So your ability to bring in and utilize oxygen is going to be a major limitation to your ability to handle this stuff.
因此，您引入和利用氧气的能力将成为您处理这些东西的能力的主要限制。
So what do you do?
那么你做什么呢？
Well, specificity wins.
好吧，特异性获胜。
Practice the exact thing you're talking about.
练习你正在谈论的事情。
So if you want to get better at sprinting the straightaways and walking the corners, do that.
因此，如果您想更好地进行直道冲刺和拐角行走，就这样做吧。
You can't always do it, though.
但你不能总是这样做。
You're going to run into limitations.
你将会遇到限制。
So this is when backing off to a lower intensity is going to give you a lot of benefits.
因此，此时降低强度会给你带来很多好处。
We know very clearly if you want to improve cardiovascular fitness, high intensity, moderate intensity, and low intensity are effective, and you actually probably want to do a little bit of all of them.
我们非常清楚，如果你想改善心血管健康，高强度、中等强度和低强度都是有效的，而且你实际上可能想全部都做一点。
This is why none of our fighters would ever just do high-intensity training.
这就是为什么我们的战士都不会只进行高强度训练。
There's going to be some moderate.
会有一些温和的。
We tend to call this cardiac output training.
我们倾向于将其称为心输出量训练。
You can think of this as anywhere between zone two to zone four, if you like zones.
如果您喜欢区域，您可以将其视为区域二到区域四之间的任何位置。
I don't use them personally.
我个人不使用它们。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So I'm just going to intentionally interrupt you because this issue of zones has come up a few times, and I want to make sure everybody's on the same page.
所以我只是故意打断你，因为这个区域问题已经出现过几次了，我想确保每个人都在同一页面上。
You also mentioned that you don't necessarily favor the zone nomenclature.
您还提到您不一定喜欢区域命名法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
But for those not familiar, zone one, two, three, four, all the way up to five is a kind of back of the envelope type verbiage-
但对于那些不熟悉的人来说，一区、二区、三区、四区、一直到五区都是一种信封背面的废话——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
for some people and is more precisely followed by for other people.
对于某些人来说，更准确地说，对于其他人来说。
Meaning for me, zone one is simply walking, easy walking.
对我来说，第一区就是步行，轻松步行。
Zone two would be for anybody the pace or intensity of exercise that one could perform while still maintaining a conversation, but just barely.
第二区对于任何人来说都是在保持对话的同时可以进行的锻炼速度或强度，但只是勉强。
Meaning if you were to push any harder, then it would be difficult to hold that conversation.
这意味着如果你再更努力，那么对话就很难进行。
Then you'd be in zone three.
那么你就会在第三区。
And then zone three, four, five, as I understand them, are a little bit vague.
然后，据我了解，第三、四、五区有点模糊。
But maybe you could give us a sense of the breathing patterns associated with each of the zones so that people could map to those when we discuss zone one through five.
但也许你可以让我们了解与每个区域相关的呼吸模式，以便人们在我们讨论第一到第五区域时可以映射到这些呼吸模式。
And as I say all this, I certainly tip my hat to all of those people out there who like to measure percent of maximum heart rate.
正如我所说的这一切，我当然向所有喜欢测量最大心率百分比的人致敬。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
They like to use heart rate monitors.
他们喜欢使用心率监测器。
They're using any number of different devices.
他们使用多种不同的设备。
I sometimes use those devices, but in general, I tend not to, and I use my breathing as a rough guide of which zone I'm in.
我有时会使用这些设备，但一般来说，我倾向于不这样做，我用我的呼吸作为我所处区域的粗略指导。
So before we go back to specific protocols for anaerobic capacity-
所以在我们回到无氧能力的具体方案之前——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
tell me how you think about zone one through five, and how people might be able to assess whether or not they are in zone one, two, three, or four, or five.
告诉我你如何看待一区到五区，以及人们如何评估他们是否处于一区、二区、三区、四区或五区。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
So zone five is that absolute top thing, and we can flag ourselves there.
所以第五区绝对是最重要的，我们可以在那里标记自己。
I liked how you flagged one and two.
我喜欢你标记一和二的方式。
The distinction between three, four, and five, I'm less concerned with either.
三、四、五之间的区别，我不太关心。
We will do some heart rate stuff, but not to identify what zone we're in.
我们会做一些心率方面的事情，但不是为了确定我们处于哪个区域。
The fact is, the distinction between those zones is basically just made up, right?
事实上，这些区域之间的区别基本上只是虚构的，对吗？
Not that it's fake, but that there's no rationale there.
并不是说它是假的，而是没有任何道理。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
It's a little bit like perceived effort in weightlifting.
这有点像举重中感知到的努力。
Are you at 100% output or 70%?
你的输出是 100% 还是 70%？
You know when you're at zero, and you know when you're-
你知道什么时候你是零，你知道什么时候你-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
at 100 in that moment, but the difference between 60 and 70 is anybody's guess.
那一刻是 100，但 60 和 70 之间的差异是任何人的猜测。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Totally.
完全可以。
So we use...
所以我们用...
Or the relevance, right?
或者相关性，对吗？
So why does it matter if I'm at 60 or 70?
那么，为什么我 60 岁或 70 岁很重要呢？
Is there actually a difference?
实际上有区别吗？
There's not, right?
没有吧？
So it doesn't really matter in that regard.
所以在这方面这并不重要。
If you're a very highly trained, particularly cyclist, things like that, and you can control a lot of circumstances, those things start to make a lot more sense.
如果你是一位训练有素的人，尤其是骑自行车的人，诸如此类，并且你可以控制很多情况，那么这些事情就开始变得更有意义。
But when you're in an open environment like the athletes I deal with, it's not going to matter that much.
但当你像我接触过的运动员一样处于开放的环境中时，这就不那么重要了。
So, the way that I approach this is, and I will use this word intentionally, stolen directly from Brian MacKenzie and his company, Shift Adapt.
所以，我处理这个问题的方法是，我将故意使用这个词，直接从 Brian MacKenzie 和他的公司 Shift Adapt 那里偷来的。
They use what's called a gear system, and I absolutely love it.
他们使用所谓的齿轮系统，我非常喜欢它。
It's what we've been using for a long time.
这是我们长期以来一直使用的。
So with Brian, with your permission, I'm going to take it right now.
所以布莱恩，在你允许的情况下，我现在就接受它。
Thank you, Brian.
谢谢你，布莱恩。
He gave me the permission just now.
他刚才给了我许可。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Thank you, Brian.
谢谢你，布莱恩。
Brian's a good friend of ours, and I do think the breathing gear system is a terrific way to think about the zones and to get a good sense of what zone one happens to be in.
布莱恩是我们的好朋友，我确实认为呼吸装置系统是思考区域并很好地了解一个人所处区域的绝佳方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Great.
伟大的。
So, the first gear is your ability to simply breathe in and out through your nose at a set cadence.
因此，第一档是您以设定的节奏简单地通过鼻子吸气和呼气的能力。
So basically, regardless of how hard you're working, can you restrict your breathing to a two to three-second inhale, and then a two to three-second exhale?
所以基本上，无论你工作多么努力，你能将呼吸限制在两到三秒吸气，然后两到三秒呼气吗？
And this is really clever actually, because a lot of folks will jump immediately into an over-breathing strategy, which means you'll be ventilating more than you need, which actually sends that RER up higher than it needs to be, which kicks you higher into carbohydrate utilization.
事实上，这真的很聪明，因为很多人会立即采取过度呼吸策略，这意味着你的通气量会超过你的需要，这实际上会让 RER 上升到比需要的更高，这会提高你对碳水化合物的利用率。
If you're supposed to be in, quote-unquote, "zone one," you're trying to be efficient, not fast.
如果你应该处于“第一区”，那么你就是在努力提高效率，而不是快速。
So using more carbohydrates than you need is not beneficial here.
因此，使用过多的碳水化合物在这里是没有好处的。
You're walking for the day.
你这一天都在走路。
You're out on a longer hike.
你要进行一次更长的徒步旅行。
You're enjoying the day.
你很享受这一天。
You shouldn't be trying to ramp up carbohydrate metabolism.
你不应该试图提高碳水化合物的新陈代谢。
It should be efficient.
它应该是有效的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Ah.
啊。
And so this would be getting into an argument with somebody while on a long walk.
因此，这将是在长途步行时与某人发生争执。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
You feel exhausted afterwards.
之后你会感到精疲力尽。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
You've been over-breathing.
你呼吸过度了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, totally.
是的，完全可以。
Right?
正确的？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Okay.
好的。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So you should be able to breathe at a specific cadence, and generally, people are doing that more frequently than they need.
因此，您应该能够以特定的节奏呼吸，而且通常人们的呼吸频率超出了他们的需要。
Right.
正确的。
Zone two, rather gear two, is inhaling and exhaling at whatever rate you need it to be, but still nasal only.
第二区域，而不是第二档，以您需要的任何速度吸气和呼气，但仍然只是鼻音。
So it is a forced right?
那么这是被迫的权利吗？
Whatever you need to do, but your mouth is closed the entire time.
无论你需要做什么，但你的嘴始终是闭着的。
You've shifted higher up.
你已经升到更高的位置了。
You're burning more and more carbohydrate as a fuel source, but you're still able to control that and restrict it through nasal breathing.
您燃烧越来越多的碳水化合物作为燃料来源，但您仍然可以通过鼻呼吸来控制和限制它。
Now, gear three and four, which is our final ones, there's no gear five.
现在，三档和四档，这是我们最后的档位，没有五档。
Gear three and four is a subtle distinction.
三档和四档是一个微妙的区别。
I actually don't even care about the difference there.
实际上我什至不关心那里的差异。
I basically use gear one, two, and then that's four.
我基本上使用一档、二档，然后是四档。
But you're basically talking about either a nose-to-mouth strategy or a straight-up mouth-mouth, right?
但你基本上是在谈论从鼻子到嘴巴的策略或直接从嘴到嘴的策略，对吧？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So breathing in through the nose, out through the mouth.
所以从鼻子吸气，从嘴呼气。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you can control it that way.
如果你能这样控制的话。
You can do the opposite, actually.
事实上，你可以做相反的事情。
Right?
正确的？
Can you breathe in and out through your nose?
你能用鼻子吸气和呼气吗？
But the classic one people will do is in through the nose, out through the mouth.
但人们最经典的做法是从鼻子吸入，从嘴巴排出。
Again, I really don't even care about distinction.
再说一次，我真的不在乎区别。
I basically jump from two to four.
我基本上从二跳到四。
Brian may do it differently.
布莱恩可能会采取不同的做法。
I don't actually know.
我其实不知道。
Four is just mouth-mouth, right?
四只是嘴巴，对吧？
And this is the case in most sporting applications.
大多数体育应用都是这种情况。
You're going to be breathing because the nose is restricted, right?
你会因为鼻子受到限制而呼吸，对吗？
There's only so much space, and as we talked about earlier, the consequences of not having enough oxygen in or CO2 exhalation, if you're restricting that, this is going to be problematic.
空间只有这么多，正如我们之前谈到的，没有足够的氧气或二氧化碳呼出的后果，如果你限制它，这将是有问题的。
So in your actual competition, please go to the mouth if you need to, right?
所以在你们实际比赛的时候，如果有需要的话请到嘴里去吧？
We practice a lot trying to stay nasal only for as long as possible, but that's going to eventually happen.
我们做了很多练习，试图尽可能长时间地保持鼻音，但这最终会发生。
When you're doing your high-intensity intervals and you're really going as hard as you can, you're going to have to go to your mouth, unless you're an absolute freakazoid, and you can stay in your nose, but that's not going to happen, right?
当你进行高强度间歇训练时，如果你真的竭尽全力，你就必须把嘴含在嘴里，除非你是个十足的怪人，你可以把嘴含在鼻子里，但这不会发生，对吧？
Most people can't get past, say, 70% or 80% while breathing through your nose.
大多数人在用鼻子呼吸时都无法通过，比如说 70% 或 80%。
I know some people can get higher.
我知道有些人可以变得更高。
But that's the general distinction, so we pay much more attention to those particular gears than we do heart rate zones.
但这是一般的区别，因此我们对这些特定齿轮的关注比对心率区域的关注要多得多。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And zone five would be just pure mouth breathing all out.
第五区就是纯粹的用嘴呼吸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Again, the gear sy-
再次，齿轮系统
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Running for your life
为你的生命而奔跑
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the gear system's just one to four.
齿轮系统只有一到四。
There's no fifth gear.
没有第五档。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Got it.
明白了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So the gear four would again be mouth-mouth, breathing as much in as you can, breathing as much as you can out.
所以四档又会是嘴对嘴，尽可能多地吸气，尽可能多地呼气。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Got it.
明白了。
And I appreciate your description of the gear system and how it roughly relates to the zones we've been talking about.
我很欣赏你对齿轮系统的描述以及它与我们一直在谈论的区域的大致关系。
I also am reminded, if anyone wants to experience the relationship between breathing and the offloading of carbon dioxide and your ability to exert effort in anything, a game that a friend of mine sometimes likes to play when we walk or jog and talk is he'll say, "Let's just hold our breath now-
我还记得，如果有人想体验呼吸和二氧化碳排出以及你在任何事情上努力的能力之间的关系，我的一个朋友有时喜欢在我们走路或慢跑和说话时玩的一个游戏是，他会说，“现在让我们屏住呼吸——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
until we hit that piling or that lifeguard stand on the beach." And within seconds, you actually can start to panic.
直到我们碰到海滩上的桩子或救生员站。”几秒钟之内，你实际上就会开始恐慌。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
It also becomes very hard to coordinate your action after a little while.
一段时间后，协调你的动作也会变得非常困难。
Again, be really careful with this, but it will teach you in a moment, in a very real-world way, how important it is to be able to offload carbon dioxide, because you're-
再说一遍，对此要非常小心，但它很快就会以一种非常现实的方式教会你，能够卸载二氧化碳是多么重要，因为你——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
probably not running out of oxygen at those lower intensities.
在如此低的强度下可能不会耗尽氧气。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No question.
毫无疑问。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
You're simply building up carbon dioxide, and that gasp reflex is screaming to go off, and you're actively suppressing it.
你只是在积累二氧化碳，而喘息反射正在尖叫着消失，而你正在积极地抑制它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So the interesting test here is your CO2 tolerance.
所以这里有趣的测试是你的二氧化碳耐受力。
On Brian's website, you can go directly there.
在布莱恩的网站上，您可以直接访问那里。
There's a video to how to run this test, and then you can put in your numbers, and it'll tell you sort of exactly what to do as a result of it.
有一个视频介绍如何运行此测试，然后您可以输入您的数字，它会准确地告诉您结果如何。
But the CO2 tolerance test is a test of exactly what you just mentioned.
但二氧化碳耐受性测试正是您刚才提到的测试。
So you should be fairly tolerant, in other words, non-reactive.
所以你应该相当宽容，换句话说，不要做出反应。
You can be responsive, but non-reactive To elevations in CO2.
您可以对二氧化碳浓度的升高做出反应，但不能做出反应。
So you should see them and feel them, but you should be choosing how you respond rather than enter a reaction.
所以你应该看到它们并感受到它们，但你应该选择你的反应方式而不是做出反应。
There are interesting data looking out things like out of the blue panic attacks.
有一些有趣的数据可以观察诸如突发恐慌发作之类的事情。
You can actually notice those in blood via rises in CO2 up to 45 minutes prior to the event happening.
事实上，您可以在事件发生前 45 分钟内通过二氧化碳浓度的升高注意到血液中的这些物质。
So there are signals happening in your body that you may be sensitive or not sensitive to.
因此，您的身体中正在发生一些您可能敏感或不敏感的信号。
The more in tune you can get with that, the better your life is going to be, and even if we're specifically just talking about exercise performance.
你越能适应这一点，你的生活就会越好，即使我们只是专门谈论运动表现。
So it's okay for CO2 to rise.
所以二氧化碳上升是可以接受的。
It's going to rise.
它将会上升。
It's a byproduct of anaerobic, anaerobic metabolism.
它是无氧、无氧代谢的副产品。
It's a byproduct of carbohydrate and fat metabolism, as we've established.
正如我们所确定的，它是碳水化合物和脂肪代谢的副产品。
It's going to get there.
它会到达那里。
You're going to feel that.
你会感觉到的。
However, if you immediately go into a panic because of a small increase in CO2, this is a problem.
然而，如果你因为二氧化碳的小幅增加而立即陷入恐慌，那就是一个问题了。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So returning to anaerobic capacity, this morning we were training, not together, I couldn't keep up with your workout.
所以回到无氧能力，今天早上我们在训练，不是一起训练，我跟不上你的锻炼。
But in the same general space, and I did my once a week maximum heart rate one-minute sprint on the assault bike.
但在同一个空间里，我每周一次在突击自行车上进行一分钟最大心率冲刺。
Sometimes I'll do more minutes, meaning I will do one minute, then take some rest, and do another minute after some rest.
有时我会多做几分钟，也就是说我会做一分钟，然后休息一下，休息后再做一分钟。
But I decided to do that one minute with you there so I could learn from you, and indeed, I have to assume that that was largely within the anaerobic capacity realm.
但我决定和你一起做一分钟，这样我就可以向你学习，事实上，我必须假设这很大程度上在无氧能力范围内。
The first 30 seconds or so were manageable, but getting more and more painful.
最初的 30 秒左右还可以接受，但越来越痛苦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
There was a quit signal going off in my head.
我的脑海里响起了退出的信号。
You said there's real magic that occurs around second 40, and indeed, somewhere around second 40, for whatever reason, it seemed easier.
你说真正的魔法发生在第 40 秒左右，事实上，在第 40 秒左右的某个地方，无论出于何种原因，它似乎更容易。
But at the one-minute mark, I was happy to stop because I was really at, at least what felt to me, 100% output.
但在一分钟的时候，我很高兴停下来，因为至少我感觉，我真的达到了 100% 的输出。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Is that a good protocol for building up anaerobic capacity, keeping in mind what you said before, which is that specificity, or precision as you've phrased it, is important?
这是建立无氧能力的良好方案吗？请记住您之前所说的，即您所说的特异性或精确性很重要？
That is, if I want to train anaerobic capacity for sprinting, I probably should've been sprinting.
也就是说，如果我想训练短跑的无氧能力，我可能应该一直短跑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Cycling, I was on the assault bike, and so on.
骑自行车，我骑的是突击自行车，等等。
How many of those one-minute all-out sprints or 30-second-
有多少次一分钟全力冲刺或 30 秒——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
all-out sprints on the bike could and should one perform per workout and per week?
骑自行车全力冲刺可以而且应该在每次锻炼和每周进行吗？
So marching through exercise choice-
因此，通过练习选择进行前进-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep, let's do it
是的，让我们开始吧
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
order, volume, frequency, and progression.
顺序、数量、频率和进展。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Choice of exercises train for what you want to improve.
根据您想要改善的部位选择练习。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not necessarily.
不一定。
So in this particular case, if you have a specific goal, yes, of course, do it.
所以在这种特殊情况下，如果你有一个特定的目标，是的，当然，就去做吧。
Exercise choice, a couple of things you want to look for.
锻炼选择，您需要寻找的一些东西。
You want to pick something that you feel extremely confident in the movement with, because you're going to forget your brain very quickly here because you're going to go into our pain cave.
你想要选择一些你对动作非常有信心的东西，因为你很快就会忘记你的大脑，因为你会进入我们的痛苦洞穴。
Okay.
好的。
So if you're not comfortable running, don't go run here.
所以，如果你不喜欢跑步，就不要来这里跑步。
You're never going to get to the spot we need to get to with.
你永远无法到达我们需要到达的地方。
If you're not comfortable or if every time you go on a rower, your low back hurts the next day, don't do it.
如果您感觉不舒服，或者每次划船后第二天您的腰部都会疼痛，请不要这样做。
If you're not comfortable using kettlebell swinging...
如果您不习惯使用壶铃摆动......
You get the point.
你明白了。
Don't do an exercise you're not comfortable with.
不要做你不舒服的运动。
You also secondarily want to be careful or cautious of heavy eccentric loads, because you're going to be doing a lot of repetitions at a high intensity.
其次，您还需要小心或谨慎地对待重的偏心负载，因为您将以高强度进行大量重复。
So this is why I love an assault bike.
这就是我喜欢突击自行车的原因。
This is why a rower is great.
这就是赛艇运动员伟大的原因。
Swimming is amazing.
游泳真是太棒了。
Running uphill, generally more favorable than running on normal ground, especially if you're not a runner.
上坡跑步通常比在普通地面上跑步更有利，特别是如果您不是跑步者。
Don't run downhill.
别往下坡跑。
That's a lot of eccentric load.
这是很大的偏心负载。
I don't love things like box jumps here.
我不喜欢这里的跳箱之类的事情。
Right?
正确的？
Because again, a lot of eccentric loading.
再次因为，有很多偏心负载。
Suppose you can jump up, land in the box, step down, but now, again, too many things are going through your mind.
假设你可以跳起来，落在盒子里，然后下来，但现在，你的脑海里又浮现出太多的事情。
"I don't want to slip and fall.
“我不想滑倒。
I don't want to smash my shin on the box.
我不想把我的小腿撞到箱子上。
What happens if I..." Too many variables.
如果我……”会发生什么？太多变数。
Pick something that is safer, where you can really focus on your breathing and your posture, and the performance.
选择更安全的东西，这样你就可以真正专注于你的呼吸、姿势和表现。
All right.
好的。
So that's exercise choice, and then within that, if there's some specific thing you want to get better at, go ahead, do it.
这就是锻炼选择，然后在其中，如果你想在某些特定的事情上做得更好，那就去做吧。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Okay.
好的。
How many different movements, meaning should I do the assault bike and then some form of safe executable overhead pressing?
有多少种不同的动作，这意味着我应该做突击自行车，然后进行某种形式的安全可执行的过顶推举？
It's a little harder to imagine anaerobic capacity for the upper body unless you have access to a SkiErg or one of these...
很难想象上半身的无氧能力，除非您可以使用 SkiErg 或其中之一......
What are those things called?
那些东西叫什么？
The climber machines?
登山机？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, the VersaClimber.
是的，VersaClimber。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
The VersaClimber, that's the one.
VersaClimber，就是这样的。
The VersaClimber.
VersaClimber。
You can tell how often I do that one.
你可以看出我多久这样做一次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a great piece of exercise equipment.
这是一件很棒的健身器材。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah, so we're thinking how many exercises and in what order?
是的，所以我们在考虑有多少练习以及按什么顺序进行？
Is it going to be two or three exercises since you're involving a lot of muscle groups typically?
因为通常会涉及很多肌肉群，所以需要进行两到三个练习吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
That's a really good distinction.
这是一个非常好的区别。
Generally, these are going to be total body movements.
一般来说，这些都是全身运动。
So you can do something like a SkiErg if you want to really isolate your upper body.
所以如果你想真正隔离你的上半身，你可以做一些像 SkiErg 这样的事情。
Great, love that.
太棒了，喜欢那个。
You can do lower body isolation like cycling, right, where your upper body's not involved.
你可以像骑自行车一样进行下半身隔离，对吧，上半身不参与其中。
You can use weights here.
您可以在此处使用权重。
You can do some barbell movements and stuff like that.
你可以做一些杠铃动作之类的。
They're just not my favorite choices for most people.
对于大多数人来说，它们并不是我最喜欢的选择。
Too many complexity things going on.
发生了太多复杂的事情。
So I generally am going to pick total body movements, pushing a sled, dragging a sled, sprinting uphill, swimming.
所以我通常会选择全身运动，推雪橇、拖雪橇、冲刺上坡、游泳。
These things like that are going to be good.
像这样的事情将会很好。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I'm seeing now why the assault bike is such a powerful tool.
我现在明白为什么突击自行车是如此强大的工具了。
Because you're using your arms with some degree of resistance, but not a lot of eccentric load, plus legs, some resistance, not a lot of eccentric load, and yet one can go, quote-unquote, all out for 30 to 60 seconds.
因为你使用的手臂有一定程度的阻力，但没有太多的偏心负荷，再加上腿，有一定的阻力，但没有太多的偏心负荷，但人们可以全力以赴30到60秒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep, and the consequences of a technical breakdown are minimal.
是的，技术故障的后果是最小的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's more like you're going to actually have a worse performance rather than an injury rate.
更像是你的表现实际上会更差，而不是受伤率。
So they're just a wonderful invention, because of that, where other things, the consequences, like say if you're going to be doing a barbell or kettlebell activity, the consequences of making a technical mistake, you might actually get an acute injury right there.
所以它们是一个很棒的发明，正因为如此，其他事情，后果，比如如果你要做杠铃或壶铃活动，犯技术错误的后果，你实际上可能会在那里受到急性伤害。
So they're just a little bit higher on the risk scale.
所以他们的风险等级只是稍高一些。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
How many sets or sometimes referred to as repeats?
多少组或有时称为重复？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So how many 30 to 60 second All out sprints.
那么多少次 30 到 60 秒的全力冲刺呢？
Again, doesn't have to be running sprinting, but all out effort would be the better way to phrase it, should I perform, let's say per week-
再说一次，不一定是冲刺，但全力以赴是更好的表达方式，如果我表现好的话，比如说每周——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
and then decide whether or not we can divide those up across multiple workouts or whether or not it's better to do them in the same workout.
然后决定是否可以将它们分成多次锻炼，或者是否最好在同一次锻炼中进行。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
If you're staying with the same exercise for all of your workouts, that's a little bit different answer than if you're modifying them.
如果您在所有锻炼中都坚持相同的锻炼，那么与修改它们相比，答案会稍有不同。
So say you're going to do this three times a week, and you're going to do an air bike one day, you're going to do some hill sprints another day, and then you're going to do some swimming another day.
假设你每周要这样做三次，有一天你要骑空中自行车，另一天你要进行一些山坡冲刺，然后另一天你要进行一些游泳。
That-
那——
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
For sake of example, I'm going to say same movement, because I think most people are going to be most comfortable with one or two types of movements.
举例来说，我会说相同的动作，因为我认为大多数人会对一两种类型的动作感到最舒服。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Unless they are really coordinated or an excellent athlete, I think most people can probably find a hill that they could run up-
除非他们真的很协调或者是一名优秀的运动员，我想大多数人可能都能找到一座他们可以跑上去的山——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
and an Airdyne or Assault bike, a rower, things of that sort.
还有一辆 Airdyne 或 Assault 自行车、划船器之类的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
You're going to have a pro and a con here.
这里会有优点和缺点。
So the pro of doing less sets is you can actually train much closer to truly 100%.
因此，少做组数的好处是，你实际上可以训练得更接近真正的 100%。
The downside is volume's low.
缺点是成交量较低。
Okay?
好的？
So a major mistake people make here is they'll do something like, I'll do 20 seconds on, 10 seconds off, and I'll do that for 40 rounds.
所以人们在这里犯的一个主要错误是他们会做这样的事情，我会做 20 秒，休息 10 秒，然后我会这样做 40 轮。
You're not really actually going that hard in those 20 seconds.
在那 20 秒内，你实际上并没有那么努力。
So a key, in fact, if you look at the literature and all the positive benefits of high intensity interval training, that assumes you are actually hitting very close to 100%.
因此，事实上，如果您查看文献以及高强度间歇训练的所有积极好处，那么关键是假设您实际上达到了非常接近 100% 的水平。
If you're sliding down into like, again, moderate training stuff, you start to actually be in a spot where you're not getting the total high-end stuff, but you're not doing it long enough to get the low-end stuff either.
如果你再次滑入中等训练内容，那么你实际上开始处于这样一个位置：你无法获得全部高端内容，但你也没有花足够长的时间来获得低端内容。
And so you end up in this like, you burn some calories.
所以你最终会陷入这样的境地，你燃烧了一些卡路里。
You probably still enhanced mitochondrial biogenesis and a little bit of capitalization, but you didn't really justify only doing three rounds.
您可能仍然增强了线粒体生物发生和一点点资本化，但您并没有真正证明只进行三轮是合理的。
That's where the problem comes in.
这就是问题所在。
So in terms of a couple of protocols I'll give you, how many sets per week, it's really hard to give a number, unlike the strength training stuff where it was easy to kind of land some stuff on.
因此，就我给你的几个协议而言，每周多少组，真的很难给出一个数字，这与力量训练不同，在力量训练中很容易找到一些东西。
A typical thing you'll see is like a minimum dose tends to be something like four rounds per day, three times per week.
您会看到的一个典型情况是，最小剂量往往是每天四轮，每周三次。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Wow, that's a lot.
哇，这么多。
So my once a week all out effort of sprinting on the Assault bike, the so-called Airdyne bike, for 60 seconds, one to three rounds of that might be doing something useful for me, but I should probably be doing that two or three times a week.
因此，我每周都会全力以赴地在突击自行车（即所谓的 Airdyne 自行车）上冲刺 60 秒，其中一到三轮可能对我有用，但我可能应该每周这样做两到三次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're going to get to a max heart rate, I generally like to say give me a minimum of one day a week.
如果您要达到最大心率，我通常会说每周至少一天。
Two's better.
两个更好。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Days per week, how many rounds?
每周几天，几轮？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whatever it takes you to get to that maximum heart rate, right?
无论您需要采取什么措施才能达到最大心率，对吗？
So in your case, you did one minute.
所以就你而言，你只做了一分钟。
Okay, good.
好的，很好。
If you're going to extend past a minute or two, one round might be enough.
如果您要延长一两分钟以上，一轮可能就足够了。
So for example, if you want to just do something where I'm going to run a mile as fast as I can, that's all you need to do for the day.
举例来说，如果你想做的事情是我要尽可能快地跑一英里，那么这就是你今天需要做的全部事情。
You don't need to do multiple.
你不需要做多次。
You can do mile repeats if you'd like, but that is really, really challenging.
如果您愿意，您可以重复一英里，但这确实非常具有挑战性。
I know we've extended the time duration here, but I wanted to go there to show you the time domain matters here.
我知道我们已经延长了这里的持续时间，但我想去那里向您展示时域在这里很重要。
If you're doing something like a 20-second burst, you're going to need more rounds.
如果你要做的是 20 秒的爆发，你将需要更多的回合。
If you're doing something longer, like multiple minutes, you don't need as many rounds to get there.
如果您要做的事情时间较长，例如几分钟，则不需要那么多轮次即可完成。
So, in addition, if you're really reaching past this 90 seconds of hell window, it's just going to do a lot more damage to the system.
因此，此外，如果您真的超过了这 90 秒的地狱窗口，它只会对系统造成更大的损害。
Not damage as in bad, but as in there's a lot to recover here.
不是坏事造成的损害，而是这里有很多东西需要恢复。
So we need more recovery time from that.
所以我们需要更多的恢复时间。
A 20-second burst doesn't really challenge you.
20 秒的爆发并不能真正挑战你。
It challenges you in that 20 seconds, but you'll be recovered and fine.
这 20 秒对你来说是个挑战，但你很快就会恢复过来，一切都好。
A three-minute thing, it is going to hurt, and it's going to hurt for many, many, many minutes after that, and you're going to still see maybe some performance decrements the next day, depending on what your recovery stuff looks like.
三分钟的事情，会很痛，之后会持续很多很多很多分钟，第二天你可能仍然会看到一些表现下降，这取决于你的恢复情况。
So, a couple of things to play with would be something like this.
所以，有一些可以玩的东西是这样的。
If you want to try like a classic 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off protocol, the literature will show like a minimum of four rounds of that, probably three days a week.
如果你想尝试经典的 30 秒开启、30 秒关闭方案，文献会显示至少四轮，可能每周三天。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So 30 seconds all out, 30 seconds rest is one round.
所以30秒全力以赴，休息30秒为一轮。
Repeat that four times at least once a week.
每周至少重复一次四次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
At least.
至少。
Two would be better.
两个会更好。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
If you want to go something a lot longer than that, you might be able to get away with one.
如果你想要做比这更长时间的事情，你也许可以逃脱惩罚。
But generally, two days a week of this is better.
但一般来说，每周有两天这样会更好。
If you start actually pushing past like three to four days a week, up to five or six, you may actually be causing some problems.
如果你开始每周坚持三到四天，最多五到六天，你实际上可能会造成一些问题。
There's just a little bit of excess fatigue that's going to happen there that you maybe want to stay away from.
那里会发生一点点过度疲劳，您可能想远离它。
In fact, you can see a lot of endocrinological problems, and some other sleep issues, and some other things kick in.
事实上，你可以看到很多内分泌问题，还有其他一些睡眠问题，还有其他一些问题。
And we'll talk about more of those things later.
我们稍后会讨论更多这些事情。
But, that's the number to get with.
但是，这就是要使用的数字。
If you want to try something more like a 20-second burst, I actually would recommend giving yourself more rest.
如果你想尝试一些类似于 20 秒突发的运动，我实际上建议你多休息。
So you can actually do a higher rest than work ratio.
所以你实际上可以做到休息比工作更高的比例。
Most people tend to think of this as doing like one to one, 20 seconds on, 20 seconds off, or lower.
大多数人倾向于认为这就像一对一、20 秒、20 秒关闭或更短的时间。
I love doing like 20 seconds on, 40 seconds off.
我喜欢做 20 秒休息 40 秒的运动。
The quality of that 20 seconds becomes extraordinarily high, and it's also possible to now get like six to eight rounds.
那20秒的质量变得非常高，现在也有可能进行六到八轮。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So as I'm hearing this, I'm going to wager an offer to you, and if you say okay, then to those listening.
因此，当我听到这个消息时，我将向您下注，如果您同意，那么我将向那些倾听的人提出要约。
Based on what you're telling me about the relationship between intensity and quality and the need for sufficient duration of this anaerobic work-
根据你告诉我的强度和质量之间的关系以及这种无氧工作需要足够持续时间的情况-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
how is five to six minutes per week of all out work?
每周全力工作五到六分钟怎么样？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's pretty good.
那很好。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So what that means for me is I would do three all out one-minute sprints on one workout separated by a minute or two-
所以这对我来说意味着我会在一次训练中进行三次一分钟的冲刺，间隔一两分钟-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
maybe more, and I would do that two or three times per week Just trying to hit that five or six minute per week threshold.
也许更多，我每周会这样做两到三次，只是想达到每周五到六分钟的阈值。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Actually, I think Marty Gibala is the scientist, a Canadian guy.
事实上，我认为马蒂·吉巴拉是一位科学家，一个加拿大人。
Amazing work.
了不起的工作。
He has done a lot of the research on high-intensity interval stuff.
他对高强度间歇训练做了很多研究。
And I think the number he actually threw out there in some of his original research was comparing six total minutes of work to upwards of 180 minutes of work throughout the entire week.
我认为他在一些原始研究中实际上给出的数字是将 6 分钟的工作时间与整个一周的 180 分钟以上的工作时间进行了比较。
And then one of the classic studies was looking at VO2 max improvements, and he saw equal, if not greater, improvements in VO2 max with that.
然后，其中一项经典研究着眼于最大摄氧量的改善，他发现最大摄氧量的改善即使不是更大，也是同等的。
So I think actually the name of his book might be The Six Minute Workout or something.
所以我认为实际上他的书的名字可能是《六分钟锻炼》之类的。
And so you may have nailed that directly on the head.
所以你可能已经把它直接钉在头上了。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Purely by luck.
纯粹是靠运气。
But actually, by-
但实际上，通过——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I also may be wrong on the numbers.
我的数字也可能是错误的。
We should probably fact-check that, but-
我们也许应该核实这一点，但是-
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, and also by inference from what you were saying, if you're going to do this 20 seconds on, 40 seconds off, and you're doing more rounds or one minute all out.
好吧，根据你所说的推断，如果你要进行 20 秒，休息 40 秒，并且你会做更多轮或全力以赴一分钟。
So the way I'm going to think about this, if it's okay with you, is for five to six minutes a week, I am sprinting-
所以，如果你同意的话，我思考这个问题的方式是每周花五到六分钟，我正在冲刺——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
for my life.
为了我的生活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct.
正确。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
But I'm sprinting for my life with good form in whatever movement I happen to be doing.
但无论我做什么运动，我都会以良好的状态向我的生活冲刺。
And I can do all of that in one workout, but I'm separating out bouts of 20 seconds all the way up to one minute-
我可以在一次锻炼中完成所有这些，但我会将 20 秒一直到 1 分钟分开-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
by the necessary rest in order to recover my breathing, get back to pure nasal breathing-
通过必要的休息来恢复呼吸，恢复纯鼻呼吸——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
maybe zone one, zone two.
也许是一区，二区。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Totally.
完全可以。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And then hit it again.
然后再打一次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're going to do the one-minute thing like you do, I actually generally encourage one to three minutes of rest before you do the next round, and probably up to four to six rounds.
如果你打算像现在这样做一分钟的事情，我实际上通常鼓励你在进行下一轮之前休息一到三分钟，可能最多休息四到六轮。
That would be your six-minute number there.
这就是你的六分钟时间。
Now, the caveat there is we don't worry about heart rate recovery.
现在，需要注意的是我们不担心心率恢复。
We worry about exactly what you mentioned, which is nasal-only recovery.
我们担心的正是您提到的，即仅鼻腔恢复。
Once you can get back to that, give yourself another 30 seconds or so, and then you're ready to go for round two.
一旦你能回到这个状态，再给自己 30 秒左右的时间，然后你就可以开始第二轮了。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
This is where it gets fun because I can imagine challenging myself to get on the assault bike for one minute of kind of warm-up, very low intensity, each morning.
这就是它的乐趣所在，因为我可以想象每天早上挑战自己骑上突击自行车进行一分钟的热身，强度非常低。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And then sprint for a minute, and then head off into my daily routine.
然后冲刺一分钟，然后开始我的日常生活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No.
不。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If you're going to do that, though, you need to give me three minutes of nasal-only breathing before you go back to work.
不过，如果你要这样做，你需要在回去工作之前给我三分钟的纯鼻呼吸时间。
We need to down-regulate after that.
之后我们需要下调。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I can certainly do that.
我当然可以做到。
And there are people in my life that would love for me to engage in more nasal breathing because it'll have me speaking less.
我生活中有些人希望我多用鼻呼吸，因为这会让我少说话。
So no problem.
所以没问题。
Chances are I'm going to use the two or three workouts per week-
我很有可能每周进行两到三次锻炼-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
of one minute all out.
一分钟全部出局。
Maybe I'll try the shorter protocol.
也许我会尝试更短的协议。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Can I give you one fun protocol to try here?
我可以给你一个有趣的协议来尝试一下吗？
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Please.
请。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So you can use this on any equipment, but I learned this from another mutual friend, Kenny Kane.
所以你可以在任何设备上使用它，但我从另一个共同的朋友肯尼凯恩那里学到了这一点。
This is a great little test, a little game you can play with yourself.
这是一个很棒的小测试，一个你可以自己玩的小游戏。
And the only way to play this game is you're going to lose, which is really, really lovely.
玩这个游戏的唯一方法就是你会输，这真的非常非常可爱。
So you can do this for any duration of time, but two minutes is a good number.
因此，您可以在任意时间段内执行此操作，但两分钟是一个不错的数字。
Okay, so you have to do this in somewhere where you can know distance.
好的，所以你必须在可以知道距离的地方进行此操作。
So this could be running, cycling, the air bike is what I use.
所以这可以是跑步、骑自行车，我用的是空中自行车。
The first two minutes, you're going to cover as much distance as you can possibly cover in two minutes, and you're going to note that.
前两分钟，你将在两分钟内走完尽可能多的距离，并且你会注意到这一点。
So let's say you covered 400 meters.
假设您走了 400 米。
Okay, great.
好的，太好了。
You're going to rest for two minutes.
你要休息两分钟。
Amazing.
惊人的。
That next round, you're now going to go for distance.
下一轮，你现在要追求距离。
So you're going to cover the exact same amount of distance you covered in round one, which in this example was 400 meters.
因此，您将要走过与第一轮完全相同的距离，在本例中为 400 米。
And it doesn't matter how long it takes you.
花多长时间并不重要。
It may take you two minutes and five seconds, two minutes and 10 seconds, because you're a little bit fatigued from round one.
这可能需要你两分五秒，两分十秒，因为你从第一轮开始就有点疲劳了。
Round three, you're going to now come back and do that exact same time domain that you did on round two.
第三轮，您现在要回来并执行与第二轮完全相同的时域。
So if it took you two minutes and five seconds in round two, now round three is going to last two minutes and five seconds.
因此，如果您在第二轮中花了两分五秒，那么现在第三轮将持续两分零五秒。
And you want to see if you can cover a greater distance, 405 meters, 410 meters, than you did on round one.
您想看看您是否可以比第一轮跑更远的距离（405 米、410 米）。
And the beauty of this little protocol, six minutes total of work.
这个小协议的美妙之处在于，总共需要六分钟的时间。
But if you slack in one of the rounds, you just make the next round harder.
但如果你在其中一轮中懈怠，只会让下一轮变得更难。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Is there any rest between rounds?
回合之间有休息吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Two minutes.
两分钟。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Always two minutes rest?
总是休息两分钟？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You don't have to, but this would be my recommendation.
你不必这样做，但这将是我的建议。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Kenny Kane came up with this?
肯尼凯恩想出这个？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know if he came up with it.
我不知道他是否想出了这个办法。
He taught me this thing.
他教了我这件事。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Well, we both know Kenny, and he's an incredibly nice and incredibly skilled trainer.
嗯，我们都认识肯尼，他是一位非常友善且技术精湛的教练。
I'm going to call it the Sugarkane.
我将称之为“Sugarkane”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
He's so great because-
他如此伟大，因为——
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Because it sounds really painful
因为听起来真的很痛苦
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and if you go out too hard in round one, you're in such big trouble round two.
如果你在第一轮比赛中表现得太过努力，那么你在第二轮比赛中就会遇到大麻烦。
But if you go it too easy in round one, you're going to get absolutely obliterated in round three.
但如果你在第一轮中表现得太轻松，那么你将在第三轮中被彻底淘汰。
So it's like a wonderful thing, and you can pick that number as a standardization and then just try to improve that a little bit per week.
所以这就像一件美妙的事情，你可以选择这个数字作为标准化，然后尝试每周改进一点。
So progression is the last part of this whole thing that we haven't gotten to yet before we move on.
所以进展是整个事情的最后一部分，在我们继续之前我们还没有到达。
And the way you want to progress all of these things is you can timestamp, again, how much work you can do, and then just try to do a slightly higher amount of work, 5% or so, every week.
你想要推进所有这些事情的方式是你可以再次标记你可以做多少工作，然后每周尝试做稍高的工作量，5% 左右。
Or you can add a round, which is a really nice way.
或者你可以添加一轮，这是一个非常好的方法。
So in the research studies that have been done, they're going to do things like week one, you'll do three rounds.
因此，在已经完成的研究中，他们将做诸如第一周之类的事情，你将进行三轮。
Week two, you'll do four rounds.
第二周，你将进行四轮。
Week three, you'll go five rounds.
第三周，你将进行五轮。
So you add a round until you get up to, say, six or seven or eight rounds at the end of the protocol.
因此，您可以添加一轮，直到在协议结束时达到六轮、七轮或八轮。
So that's a really nice way to go about it.
所以这是一个非常好的方法。
Or you can cap the rounds and just try to get more work done in that same amount of time.
或者你可以限制回合数，并尝试在相同的时间内完成更多的工作。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Meaning go more intensely.
意思是走得更激烈。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct.
正确。
Get further distance in your 30 seconds or your 45 seconds or whatever.
在 30 秒或 45 秒或其他时间内获得更远的距离。
I want to encourage people to go as low as 20 seconds.
我想鼓励人们把时间缩短到 20 秒。
That's going to allow you to go very fast.
这会让你走得非常快。
That's going to actually challenge that phosphocreatine piece a little bit.
这实际上会对磷酸肌酸部分提出一些挑战。
I want to encourage people to also go as high as 90 seconds.
我想鼓励人们也把时间提高到 90 秒。
So the honest way, the way that I will do it, not that it's about me, but just as an example of something you could do, I do something in the 15- to 20-second burst range.
因此，老实说，我会这样做，不是说这是关于我的，而是作为你可以做的事情的一个例子，我在 15 到 20 秒的突发范围内做了一些事情。
And I will generally hedge towards a two-to-one rest-to-work ratio.
我通常会采取二比一的休息与工作比率。
So I'm probably going to rest 40 to 60 seconds That's to make sure that 20-second burst is extremely high quality.
所以我可能会休息 40 到 60 秒，这是为了确保 20 秒的突发质量极高。
Cool.
凉爽的。
I'm also going to do something in the 30 to 50-second range.
我还将做一些 30 到 50 秒范围内的事情。
Okay?
好的？
I might go one-to-one work rest ratio.
我可能会采用一对一的工作休息比例。
The quality of those 30 seconds is going to come down, but the acid buffering is going to be extraordinarily challenged.
这 30 秒的质量将会下降，但酸缓冲将会受到极大的挑战。
I also will do that with a triple or quadruple rest range.
我也会用三重或四重休息范围来做到这一点。
So again, 30 seconds on, maybe two minutes off.
再说一遍，开始 30 秒，也许休息 2 分钟。
Now, I won't be working on my ability to handle the waste product buildup there, but I'll be working on my ability to produce more force over that time, which is another skill set.
现在，我不会致力于处理那里堆积的废物的能力，但我将致力于在那段时间产生更多力量的能力，这是另一项技能。
And then all the way up to, say, what you do, a minute, 70 seconds, and you can go one-to-one there, or up to three-to-one.
然后一直到，比如说，你做什么，一分钟，70 秒，你可以一对一，或者最多三对一。
You're going to be working on a little bit of this different thing, but that's exactly how we hit both sides of this equation, working on dealing with waste as well as actually working on bringing in nutrients and getting that system a little bit more effective.
你将致力于做一些不同的事情，但这正是我们解决这个等式两边的方式，致力于处理废物以及实际致力于引入营养并使该系统更加有效。
So, you could set that up across your week, and it could be something like day one is that 20-second burst window, day two is that maybe 60-second window, and then day three is maybe one all-out effort, and we're done there.
所以，你可以在一周内进行设置，第一天可能是 20 秒的突发窗口，第二天可能是 60 秒的窗口，然后第三天可能是全力以赴的努力，我们就完成了。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Let's talk about the specific protocols and adaptations related to maximum aerobic output or maximum aerobic capacity, as it's sometimes called.
让我们谈谈与最大有氧输出或最大有氧能力（有时称为最大有氧能力）相关的具体协议和适应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Now we're moving past that couple of minute range into the five- to 15-minute range, but at a maximum intensity.
现在我们正在超越那几分钟的范围，进入五到十五分钟的范围，但强度最大。
So it's the highest you can go from there.
所以这是你可以从那里到达的最高高度。
We're not talking about our last category of long duration here.
我们在这里讨论的不是最后一类长期持续时间。
Well, the beautiful part is we've already explained a lot of it, because it's very similar to what we just talked about with anaerobic capacity.
嗯，最美妙的部分是我们已经解释了很多，因为它与我们刚才谈到的无氧能力非常相似。
It is primarily going to be a problem of dealing with waste products, especially at the end.
这主要是一个处理废物的问题，特别是在最后。
It's not enough total distance to be running out of muscle glycogen, though it may start to creep down a little bit.
总距离还不足以耗尽肌糖原，尽管它可能会开始稍微下降。
Fat's not going to be an issue, but certainly more oxygen transportation is going to be an issue.
脂肪不会成为问题，但更多的氧气输送肯定会成为问题。
So we're just hedging a little bit more towards that side of the equation.
所以我们只是在等式的这一边多做一些对冲。
Towards the end of that workout, no doubt about it, clearing out waste products is going to be a huge issue.
毫无疑问，在锻炼结束时，清除废物将是一个大问题。
But really, oxygen demand and delivery is starting to take more of a prominent role because we have had more time to clear the waste.
但实际上，氧气需求和输送开始发挥更重要的作用，因为我们有更多的时间来清除废物。
And if we're not good at that, we're going to be failing earlier than we need.
如果我们不擅长这一点，我们就会比我们需要的更早失败。
So the training for that needs to be a little bit at that exact same.
因此，为此进行的培训需要与此完全相同。
So a classic thing here is a one-mile test, right?
所以这里的一个经典事情是一英里测试，对吧？
This is going to last, for most people, somewhere between five and 10 minutes.
对于大多数人来说，这种情况会持续 5 到 10 分钟。
You're sort of right in this window.
您就在这个窗口中。
If you just want to practice that once a week, we're done here.
如果您只想每周练习一次，我们就到此为止了。
Right?
正确的？
Exercise choice, same thing we talked about, right?
运动选择，我们谈论过同样的事情，对吧？
Pick an exercise you're comfortable with that you can actually do, and you can progressively increase in terms of the intensity.
选择一种你觉得舒服、你实际上可以做的运动，你可以逐渐增加强度。
You're not going to have to stop and change your exercise.
您不必停下来改变您的锻炼方式。
You're not going to have to move around, so like a circuit isn't great here because you got to put one implement down, pick up another one.
你不需要四处走动，所以就像电路在这里不太好一样，因为你必须放下一个工具，拿起另一个工具。
You want to be doing something where there is literally not a second of off switch.
你想做的事情实际上没有一秒钟的关闭时间。
So similar exercise choice principles we just covered.
我们刚刚介绍了类似的运动选择原则。
If you're going to become a real savage and you want to do repeats here, you can.
如果你想成为一个真正的野蛮人并且你想在这里重复，你可以。
Endurance folks will do that a lot, one-mile repeats, 800-meter repeats, things like that, or I'm not sure what the swimming distance equivalents would be, but swimmers would do this constantly.
耐力运动员会经常这样做，一英里重复，800米重复，类似的事情，或者我不确定相当于游泳的距离是多少，但游泳运动员会经常这样做。
But you don't need to.
但你不需要。
This is really hard.
这真的很难。
It's pretty hard on the system.
这对系统来说是相当困难的。
It's very good for you.
这对你来说非常好。
One to twice a week of hitting this, I think you'll be in a really, really good spot.
每周坚持一到两次，我想你会处于一个非常非常好的状态。
Frequency, we sort of just covered.
频率，我们刚刚涵盖了。
We covered exercise choice.
我们讨论了运动选择。
Volume, we just sort of nailed.
音量，我们刚刚确定了。
And intensity is basically running you up to the top there.
强度基本上会让你到达顶峰。
Now, because you can only do that so often, you want to add in another 40 or so percent of your time being lower intensity support work for that.
现在，因为您只能经常这样做，所以您需要另外花费 40% 左右的时间来进行较低强度的支持工作。
So this is something probably less than 85% of your heart rate, but higher than, quote-unquote, "zone two." You've got to be working here.
因此，这可能低于心率的 85%，但高于“第二区”。你必须在这里工作。
This is not I could have a conversation pace.
这不是我可以交谈的节奏。
This is higher than that.
这比那要高。
It's in between conversation pace and the pace I need to be at to run my fastest mile I've ever done.
它介于谈话速度和我跑完最快一英里所需的速度之间。
That's that middle ground, and you need to train that so that you can continue to work on capitalization, oxygen transportation, but you're not burning down the house getting all the way up to 100-plus percent of your VO2 max.
这就是中间立场，你需要对其进行训练，以便你可以继续进行资本化、氧气运输，但你不会烧毁房子直到最大摄氧量 100% 以上。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Could I use a crude version of this where I say, "Okay, I'm going to exercise for 10 minutes.
我可以用一个粗略的版本来表达：“好吧，我要锻炼 10 分钟。
I'm going to go as fast as I safely can.
我会在安全的情况下尽可能快地走。
And every week, I'm going to measure how far I travel-
每周我都会测量我旅行了多远-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Easy
简单
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
in that 10 minutes."
在那10分钟里。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Love it.
喜欢它。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Probably not on the same day that I'm doing the anaerobic capacity work.
可能不是在我进行无氧能力训练的同一天。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Probably not.
可能不会。
If you want to-
如果你想-
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
But probably okay to do after a strength training or hypertrophy workout, as long as I didn't train legs?
但是，只要我不训练腿部，在力量训练或增肌训练后进行可能就可以了吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You could.
你可以。
It's probably going to compromise recovery, is the way.
这可能会影响恢复，就是这样。
So if you're going to do a session like this, I would probably do it on its own day.
因此，如果您要举办这样的会议，我可能会在当天进行。
Unless you wanted to do something like speed or power, then you could roll right into this and have no problem.
除非你想做速度或力量之类的事情，那么你可以直接投入其中，没有任何问题。
Maybe a strength day, a hypertrophy day, I'm not sure you would do there, because again, especially if you did any sort of lower body exercise, you're going to be compromised here.
也许是力量日，肥大日，我不确定你会在那里做，因为同样，特别是如果你做了任何形式的下半身锻炼，你会在这里受到影响。
But remember, these tend to be full body movements, so even if you did arms that day, your arms are going to be compromised, and you don't want to fail this because of local muscular failure.
但请记住，这些往往是全身运动，所以即使你那天做了手臂运动，你的手臂也会受到损害，你不想因为局部肌肉衰竭而失败。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
All right, so now I've got my work cut out for me.
好吧，现在我的工作已经完成了。
I'm going to be doing five to six minutes per week of all-out work divided into 20- to 60-second bouts with sufficient rest, and I'm going to give myself 10 minutes a week of, in my case, it'll probably be running as fast as I can-
我每周要全力以赴地工作 5 到 6 分钟，分成 20 到 60 秒的间歇，并充分休息，并且每周给自己 10 分钟的时间，就我而言，可能会尽可能快地跑——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
because I do enjoy running, and I can do it safely, maybe uphill, and see how far I go.
因为我确实喜欢跑步，而且我可以安全地跑步，也许是上坡，看看我能跑多远。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
If you want to combine the two So if you're just saying, "Hey, I'm bought in, Andy.
如果你想将两者结合起来，那么如果你只是说，“嘿，我同意了，安迪。
I want to do both of these things.
我想做这两件事。
They are similar, but they have independent benefits.
它们很相似，但又具有独立的优点。
I'm convinced.
我确信。
How would I build these into the same week?" Maybe do one of each.
我如何将这些整合到同一周内？”也许各做一个。
That still gets you at, quote-unquote, two days per week where you're going to hit a maximum heart rate.
这仍然会让你每周有两天达到最高心率。
So we already checked that box off.
所以我们已经勾选了该框。
So one day can be a shorter length interval repeat one, and the other one can simply be a five- to 15-minute maximum work, and you're done.
因此，一天可以是较短长度的重复训练，而另一天可以是 5 到 15 分钟的最大训练，然后就完成了。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Long duration endurance exercise, the stereotypical endurance exercise.
长时间耐力运动，即典型的耐力运动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
How far, how long, how fast, or how slow, rather, should I go?
我应该走多远、多长、多快、或多慢？
And here I'm going to venture that exercise choice is one that we could click off even at this point in the discussion, because obviously it's got to be something that I can do for a long while without getting injured.
在这里，我要大胆地说，即使在讨论的这一点上，我们也可以选择运动选择，因为显然它必须是我可以长时间做而不会受伤的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct.
正确。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Overuse injuries.
过度使用受伤。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's a little bit of novelty we can actually throw in here.
我们实际上可以在这里加入一些新奇的东西。
So one of the things I love to do for long-duration endurance for people who don't love running, cycling, or swimming is you can do a really cool workout, any number of things, where you can put a little circuit together.
因此，对于那些不喜欢跑步、骑自行车或游泳的人来说，为了获得长期耐力，我喜欢做的一件事是，你可以做一个非常酷的锻炼，任何数量的事情，你可以把一个小循环放在一起。
As long as there's not a lot of downtime between one circuit to the next time, you can actually do something as simple as maybe you're going to do farmer's carries, and you'll do that for, say, three minutes, and then you'll set those down, and you'll go straight into a plank for a minute, and you'll pick that up, and you go straight into maybe bodyweight squats for two minutes.
只要一个循环与下一个循环之间没有太多的休息时间，你实际上可以做一些简单的事情，比如你要做农夫举重，你会做三分钟，然后你把它们放下，你会直接做平板支撑一分钟，然后你会拿起它，然后你可能会直接进行自重深蹲两分钟。
Then you go straight into another exercise, and you can sort of rotate things around.
然后你直接进入另一个练习，你可以旋转一些东西。
Maybe you can do even some shadow boxing stuff or some jump rope.
也许你甚至可以做一些太极拳或跳绳。
You can do different gymnastics movements and bodyweight movements, and you can run that thing through, and you can basically get the exact same thing accomplished and not feel like you're doing, oh my gosh, this mind-numbing type of training if it feels like that to you.
你可以做不同的体操动作和自重动作，你可以把这些动作贯穿始终，你基本上可以完成同样的事情，而且不会觉得你在做，哦，天哪，这种令人头脑麻木的训练，如果你有这种感觉的话。
Another way you can do that to actually even simplify it even more, we've done this at Kenny Kane's gym plenty of times, where you just maybe even pick three machines.
另一种方法是你可以做到这一点，实际上甚至更加简化，我们已经在肯尼·凯恩的健身房做过很多次了，在那里你甚至可以选择三台机器。
So you're going to go, I'm going to go 10 minutes on the rower, then I'm going to go 10 minutes on the treadmill, and then I'm going to go 10 minutes on the bike.
所以你要去，我要去划船10分钟，然后我要去跑步机上10分钟，然后我要去骑自行车10分钟。
You can actually knock a 30-minute, quote-unquote, steady-state session out in and not feel those problems if those things happen.
事实上，你可以进行 30 分钟的稳定状态会话，即使这些事情发生，也不会感觉到这些问题。
So you can actually have a lot of fun there.
所以你实际上可以在那里玩得很开心。
We will do a lot of times with our fighters, we'll do things like put a very low load, I'm talking sub 50% of your max, on a barbell, and you're going to squat, and you're going to do maybe a minute.
我们会和我们的战士一起做很多次，我们会做一些事情，比如施加非常低的负荷，我说的是低于你最大负荷的 50%，在杠铃上，你要深蹲，你可能要做一分钟。
You're going to put that down, and then you're going to go over and do 50% of a bench press.
你要把它放下，然后你要去做 50% 的卧推。
You're going to put that down.
你会把它放下的。
You're going to go over and do 50% of a crab walk, and then you're going to go over and do another one, and you can actually run through this entire thing.
你要过去做 50% 的螃蟹行走，然后你要过去做另一件事，你实际上可以完成整个过程。
You don't hit that many reps in any individual movement.
在任何一个单独的动作中，你都不会完成那么多次数。
The load is very, very light, and you can keep heart rate basically at a steady state and do 15 or 20 or 30 different exercises, and it's actually fairly fun and engaging to do.
负荷非常非常轻，你可以让心率基本保持在一个稳定的状态，做15个、20个、30个不同的练习，其实还是蛮有趣、有参与感的。
And it's a little bit more specific than trying to get a 275-pound NFL player to run for 30 minutes, which is not going to be good.
这比试图让一名 275 磅重的 NFL 球员跑 30 分钟更具体一些，这不会有什么好处。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I'm just chuckling because I love to run outdoors, and I've enjoyed runs on all my travels, and-
我只是咯咯地笑，因为我喜欢在户外跑步，而且我在所有旅行中都喜欢跑步，而且-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
I find it to be a great way to see different places.
我发现这是游览不同地方的好方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of course.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And I like moving through space.
我喜欢在太空中移动。
But there are weather conditions and times when that's not an option, so what you described is a terrific alternative.
但在某些天气条件和时间下，这不是一个选择，所以你所描述的是一个很好的选择。
I have to assume that the specific adaptation that's occurring here is related to the fat-burning system.
我必须假设这里发生的特定适应与脂肪燃烧系统有关。
And again, that doesn't necessarily mean fat loss-
再说一遍，这并不一定意味着减脂——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Correct
正确
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
overall, but fat-burning system.
总体来说，只是脂肪燃烧系统。
And yet I do have a question, which is can you build enhanced microcapillary systems into the muscles by doing this long-duration cardio?
但我确实有一个问题，即通过长时间的有氧运动，你可以在肌肉中建立增强的微毛细血管系统吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Absolutely you can.
绝对可以。
In fact, depending on which paper you like more than the other papers, you may even find evidence that this is a superior method than anything else.
事实上，根据您比其他论文更喜欢哪一篇论文，您甚至可能会发现证据表明这是一种比其他任何方法都优越的方法。
So steady-state endurance is very important.
所以稳态耐力非常重要。
I used to not like it as much.
我以前不太喜欢它。
There's just so much evidence now that suggests it's probably a really good thing for basically everybody.
现在有很多证据表明这对基本上每个人来说可能都是一件好事。
Maybe for some individuals, it's not in all year of their training.
也许对于某些人来说，这并不是在他们全年的训练中。
But if you're not a high-level athlete or have a very specific goal that's right in front of you, it's probably best to do at least 20 minutes as a minimum, maybe 30 minutes, of some steady-state exercise once a week for basically any training goal outside of, again, a couple of really specific scenarios that are happening.
但是，如果您不是高水平的运动员，或者有一个非常具体的目标就在您面前，那么最好每周进行一次至少 20 分钟（也许是 30 分钟）的稳态练习，以实现基本上任何训练目标，除了一些正在发生的非常具体的场景之外。
The other thing that kind of kicks in here that we haven't really talked about is now we're actually reaching a position where fatigue of the intercostal starts to play.
我们还没有真正讨论过的另一件事是，现在我们实际上已经达到了肋间疲劳开始发挥作用的位置。
So diaphragmic fatigue starts to run into occasion.
因此膈肌疲劳开始出现。
So we forget, generally breathing is a contraction to open up the lungs to change pressure so the air will flow in, and then the exhalation is passive, right?
所以我们忘记了，一般来说，呼吸是一种收缩，打开肺部来改变压力，这样空气就会流入，然后呼气是被动的，对吗？
It's just a muscle's been stretched, it goes back to its resting.
这只是一块肌肉被拉伸了，它又回到了休息状态。
When you get to a maximum heart rate, inhalation and exhalation become active.
当您达到最大心率时，吸气和呼气就会变得活跃。
So you're squeezing as hard as you can to open up, and you're squeezing to contract to blow air out.
所以你要尽你所能地挤压以打开空气，并且挤压以收缩以将空气吹出。
You're going to get fatigued, that system, right?
你会感到疲劳的，那个系统，对吧？
Over time, you have contracted, contracted, open up.
随着时间的推移，你收缩、收缩、开放。
If that system starts to get fatigued, you start running into failure here.
如果该系统开始疲劳，那么您就会开始遇到故障。
So you need to practice that.
所以你需要练习这一点。
And this is when all kinds of things like breathing drills to just simply training in this fashion.
这是各种诸如呼吸之类的事情都以这种方式进行简单训练的时候。
There's all kinds of exercise devices for your lungs, and when we say that, that's what we're really talking about.
有各种各样的肺部锻炼设备，当我们这么说时，这才是我们真正谈论的。
The musculature around the lungs needs to not fatigue.
肺部周围的肌肉组织不能疲劳。
So that's the only other little component I wanted to throw in here.
这是我想在这里添加的唯一的其他小组件。
If we're not talking about acid buffering, which in this particular case is not a problem anymore, the time domain is long and slower.
如果我们不讨论酸缓冲（在这种特殊情况下不再是问题），那么时域就会长且慢。
So we have plenty of time to use fat as a fuel.
所以我们有充足的时间使用脂肪作为燃料。
We also have plenty of time to use anaerobic and aerobic glycolysis and clear out waste products.
我们还有充足的时间来利用无氧和有氧糖酵解并清除废物。
So we don't really see pH being a problem with this type of exercise.
因此，我们并不认为 pH 值是此类运动的问题。
You may start running low on liver glycogen if you're going a very long time.
如果您运动时间很长，您的肝糖原可能会开始不足。
Muscle glycogen may start getting low, but not really these are huge issues.
肌糖原可能会开始降低，但这并不是什么大问题。
You're going to run into maybe a little bit of a stroke volume issue, but And the intensity is not high enough to become a problem.
您可能会遇到一点每搏输出量问题，但强度还不足以成为问题。
You're more likely to break down posturally or breathing mechanics than really anything else, unless, again, that duration really gets generally past two hours for most people.
与其他任何事情相比，你更有可能崩溃姿势或呼吸机制，除非，对于大多数人来说，持续时间通常超过两个小时。
So those are the things that are going to limit us.
所以这些都是限制我们的事情。
So how do we improve it?
那么我们该如何改进呢？
What do we train?
我们训练什么？
We went through the exercise choices.
我们检查了练习的选择。
You also need to make sure you're training your intercostals.
您还需要确保您正在训练肋间肌。
We need to be training our diaphragm in some fashion.
我们需要以某种方式训练我们的隔膜。
Again, it can be the exercise itself, can be your normal training.
再说一次，它可以是锻炼本身，也可以是你的正常训练。
The thing you need to be careful of here, and this is actually true for all the things we just talked about.
这里你需要注意的事情，对于我们刚才谈到的所有事情来说实际上都是如此。
When we think about fatigue and we think about failure of endurance, we really need to pay attention to technical breakdown.
当我们想到疲劳和耐力失败时，我们确实需要注意技术故障。
That is always the marker we look for.
这始终是我们寻找的标记。
So when we go through our stuff with our athletes and they, quote-unquote, "fail" or they finish, that's generally because we saw a massive technical breakdown.
因此，当我们与运动员一起检查我们的东西时，他们，一言不发，“失败”或他们完成了任务，这通常是因为我们看到了大规模的技术故障。
You're done.
你完成了。
You're over there.
你在那边。
Not always the case during all your round of training, but this is something to really pay attention to.
在整个训练过程中情况并非总是如此，但这是真正需要注意的事情。
So if you're on that bike and you're 40 seconds in and all of a sudden posture starts hunching over, I may stop the test.
因此，如果您骑着那辆自行车，40 秒后突然开始弯腰驼背，我可能会停止测试。
I may stop the training.
我可能会停止训练。
It's like, no. What we decided failure was is when you lost your technique to some sufficient level.
就像，不。我们判定失败是指你的技术失去了足够的水平。
So you want to pay attention to that, too, because that's going to determine your ability to perform well as well as maintain efficiency, which is a really big problem here.
所以你也要注意这一点，因为这将决定你表现良好以及保持效率的能力，这是一个非常大的问题。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Tell me if the protocol I'm about to describe would be a reasonable one for people to incorporate 60 to 120 minutes of long-duration work per week.
请告诉我，我将要描述的方案对于人们每周进行 60 到 120 分钟的长时间工作是否合理。
So one way to accomplish that that I often use is to head out for a weight-vested hike.
因此，我经常使用的一种实现这一目标的方法是进行负重徒步旅行。
It's not a heavy weight vest.
这不是一件重型背心。
I think it's eight or 10 pounds.
我认为有八或十磅。
It's one of these thinner ones.
它是这些较薄的之一。
And if people don't have access to that, you can bring a backpack with-
如果人们无法使用它，你可以带一个背包-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure
当然可以
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
some items in it.
其中的一些项目。
It can be as simple as that.
事情就可以这么简单。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You don't even need external load.
您甚至不需要外部负载。
It can just be your body.
它可以只是你的身体。
That's fine.
没关系。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Okay, great.
好的，太好了。
And do some hiking at a fast enough clip that I'm breathing harder than I would be if I just kind of shuffled along.
并以足够快的速度徒步旅行，这样我的呼吸就会比我拖着脚步走时更困难。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I might stop here or there, drink some water, no big deal.
我可能会在这里或那里停下来，喝点水，没什么大不了的。
But I can carry on a conversation if I need to, so it's-
但如果需要的话我可以继续谈话，所以——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
zone two-ish, but probably pushing a little bit harder than that for that duration.
区域二左右，但在这段时间内可能会比这更努力一些。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Not a lot of deep soreness occurring after this.
此后并没有发生很多深度疼痛。
Maybe a little bit of achiness in some stabilization muscles that were used-
也许使用的一些稳定肌肉有点酸痛-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
that may not be used too much, especially if I've been sitting a lot during the week.
可能不会使用太多，尤其是如果我在一周内坐了很多次的话。
Kind of reminds me of how much I've been sitting.
有点让我想起我坐了多久。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
But doing that all in one long afternoon, typically on a weekend, or doing two shorter sessions throughout the week, maybe 45 minutes and 45 minutes, and then working up the progression to longer duration.
但是，这一切都需要在一个漫长的下午（通常是周末）完成，或者在一周内进行两次较短的训练，可能分别为 45 分钟和 45 分钟，然后逐渐增加到更长的持续时间。
Seems like that would be something that most people should be able to do.
似乎这是大多数人都应该能够做到的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And that it would weave in well with any resistance training or the anaerobic and aerobic output capacity work that we talked about just a moment ago.
而且它可以与我们刚才谈到的任何阻力训练或无氧和有氧输出能力训练很好地结合起来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
That's a fine version to do it.
这是一个很好的版本。
If you want to go shorter and bring up the intensity a little bit, so you want to keep it more to the 30- to 60-minute range and go closer into the, "I can't have a conversation right now," but again, I'm not at a blistering heart rate, then you could probably get that same thing done in a smaller time window if that was a consideration.
如果你想缩短时间并稍微提高强度，那么你想将其保持在 30 到 60 分钟的范围内，并更接近“我现在无法进行对话”，但同样，我的心率不高，那么如果考虑到这一点，你可能可以在更小的时间窗口内完成同样的事情。
So if you wanted to blend all three of these together, you have a lot of wiggle room, right?
因此，如果您想将这三者混合在一起，您就有很大的回旋余地，对吧？
So you could do something like order.
所以你可以做一些类似订单的事情。
If we're talking about this type of training, you could do this first and then finish with either one of the higher intensity stuff we talked about.
如果我们谈论的是这种类型的训练，您可以先进行此训练，然后再完成我们讨论过的任何一种较高强度的训练。
So it could be roped into the same thing.
所以它可以被束缚在同一件事上。
It could be its own independent day.
这可能是它自己的独立日。
Could be your sort of active recovery day.
可能是您积极恢复的一天。
It tends to be fairly restorative, as you alluded to a little bit there.
正如您提到的那样，它往往具有相当的恢复性。
So it's not that big a deal to do this on your, quote-unquote, "off day." If you're that type of person who even on your off day, you have to do something physical, this is fine.
因此，在“休息日”做这件事并不是什么大不了的事。如果你是那种即使在休息日也必须做一些身体活动的人，这很好。
If you wanted to do it on a lifting day, especially if it's a power or strength day, it's probably fine.
如果你想在举重日做这件事，尤其是力量日，那可能没问题。
If you wanted to do it before the workout or after, either way, you're probably okay.
如果您想在锻炼之前或之后进行，无论哪种方式，都可能没问题。
Probably best to do it after if the primary goal is one of the strength training adaptations.
如果主要目标是力量训练适应之一，那么最好在之后进行。
If it's not, if this is the primary goal, do it first.
如果不是，如果这是主要目标，请先这样做。
Amazing.
惊人的。
If you wanted to do it in the combination with the other interval stuff, you could do it fine there.
如果你想与其他间隔的东西结合起来，你可以在那里做得很好。
You could do it before, or you could do it afterwards.
你可以在之前做，也可以在之后做。
I actually have no problem doing it afterwards because that, in effect, especially if you stay nasal only during this training, will help the downregulation go.
事实上，我在事后这样做没有问题，因为实际上，特别是如果你在训练期间只保持鼻音，将有助于下调。
And so you could finish that fairly well down-regulated, actually.
实际上，你可以完成相当好的下调。
So it's kind of like a nice way to get thoroughly warmed up, go really, really hard, and then give it a nice 20- to 30-minute slow back down.
所以这有点像一个很好的方式来彻底热身，非常非常努力，然后给它一个 20 到 30 分钟的慢速恢复。
And by the time you finish, maybe even on a three-minute walk.
当你完成时，甚至可能步行三分钟。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Nice, slow nasal breathing.
鼻呼吸很好，缓慢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A four-second inhale, four-second inhale, maybe five.
四秒吸气，四秒吸气，也许五秒。
So you can play with the numbers a little bit.
所以你可以稍微玩一下数字。
Then maybe you don't even need to do the down-regulation breathing afterwards.
那么也许你甚至不需要事后进行下调呼吸。
You'll be in a good spot.
你会处于一个好位置。
What you wouldn't want to do this before, do your intervals, finish your intervals, throw up, lay on the ground, sweat all over the gym floor, get up and go back to work.
你以前不想做的事，做你的间歇，完成你的间歇，呕吐，躺在地上，在健身房地板上流汗，站起来然后回去工作。
That's probably not our best strategy.
这可能不是我们最好的策略。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
As people are hearing this all, they may be thinking, wow, this is a lot of work to do.
当人们听到这一切时，他们可能会想，哇，这有很多工作要做。
But I've been keeping track of the math here, as I'm sure some of you out there are as well, and we're really talking about 10 minutes of running or sprinting on the bike or rower once a week.
但我一直在这里跟踪数学，因为我相信你们中的一些人也有同样的想法，我们实际上讨论的是每周一次骑自行车或划船跑步或冲刺 10 分钟。
We're talking about six minutes or so of the much higher intensity, but short bouts divided into rounds of 20 seconds to a minute with rest in between.
我们谈论的是六分钟左右的高强度比赛，但短回合分为 20 秒到 1 分钟的回合，中间有休息。
And then some longer duration workout of 30 minutes minimum, but maybe as much as an hour, even two hours, which in total doesn't really equate to that much time, especially if one can access these things right out their front door or at home.
然后进行一些持续时间较长的锻炼，至少 30 分钟，但可能长达一个小时，甚至两个小时，这总共并不等于那么多时间，特别是如果一个人可以在前门或家里访问这些东西。
And as we pointed out, you don't need any specialized equipment to do that.
正如我们所指出的，您不需要任何专门的设备来做到这一点。
Oh, and I forgot the muscular endurance.
哦，我忘记了肌肉耐力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
I wasn't trying to cheat there.
我并不是想在那里作弊。
Some muscular endurance thrown in as well.
一些肌肉耐力也投入其中。
So that brings me to a question, which is if I'm doing my training for muscular endurance each week, for anaerobic capacity, and for maximum aerobic output and long duration, and given that all of that is going to take roughly two hours for the typical person total for the entire week, which I would argue is going to give you back so much life-
所以这给我带来了一个问题，那就是我是否每周都进行肌肉耐力训练、无氧能力训练、最大有氧输出和长时间训练，并且考虑到一般人整个星期总共需要大约两个小时，我认为这会给你带来很多生命——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, my gosh
哦，天哪
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
literally.
从字面上看。
In terms of longevity, you're literally going to earn back years of your life.
就长寿而言，你确实可以赚回几年的寿命。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Productivity, you name it.
生产力，你能想到的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Offsetting all sorts of metabolic issues and enhancing your sleep and improving mood.
抵消各种新陈代谢问题，改善睡眠并改善情绪。
I mean, there's so much data pointing to all those positive benefits.
我的意思是，有很多数据表明了所有这些积极的好处。
If I do all of these things and I'm fairly consistent about them, am I going to be metabolically flexible?
如果我做了所有这些事情并且我对它们相当一致，我的新陈代谢会变得灵活吗？
Am I going to have a well-developed fat-burning, carbohydrate-burning system, and will I be essentially fit?
我是否会拥有完善的脂肪燃烧和碳水化合物燃烧系统，并且我会基本上保持健康吗？
I mean, this is not leaving aside issues of strength and hypertrophy-
我的意思是，这并没有抛开力量和肥大的问题——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
which were covered in the previous episode.
上一集已经介绍过。
Will I be fit?
我会健康吗？
I mean, to my mind, the ability to sprint very fast if one needs to, the ability to go longer duration if one needs to, and the ability to do something in between as well as hold a box overhead if necessary while installing a shelf or something like that.
在我看来，我的意思是，如果需要的话，能够非常快地冲刺，如果需要的话，能够持续更长的时间，以及在两者之间做一些事情的能力，以及在安装架子或类似东西时必要时在头顶上举起一个盒子的能力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
These are the realities of life, and to me, represent real functional world fitness.
这些是生活的现实，对我来说，代表了真正的功能世界健身。
If that's the case, is there anything that we would want to add to this program, or would you consider that a fairly comprehensive and complete endurance training system?
如果是这样的话，我们是否想在这个计划中添加一些东西，或者您认为这是一个相当全面和完整的耐力训练系统？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If we remember the target, which is I want to have energy, I want to look a certain way, and you want to be able to do that for the duration of your life, for a very long life.
如果我们记住目标，那就是我想要有能量，我想要以某种方式看待，而你希望能够在你的一生中，在很长的一生中做到这一点。
This style of training, where you incorporate all of those areas of endurance, gives you all of the necessary adaptations one would need to execute all of those things.
这种训练方式将所有这些耐力领域结合起来，为您提供执行所有这些事情所需的所有必要的适应。
Remember, fat loss or weight management is not best done with any individual style or protocol.
请记住，减肥或体重管理并不是通过任何个人风格或方案就能达到最佳效果。
So if you do a little bit of all three of these, you've checked that fat loss box.
因此，如果您在这三个方面都做了一点，那么您就已经检查了减脂框。
You don't need to go out and do anything separate for it.
你不需要出去单独做任何事情。
You've done all the things then to cover aesthetics from that side of the equation, right?
你已经做了所有的事情来涵盖等式这一边的美学，对吗？
You've done the things to both enhance mitochondria, to enhance blood flow, increase oxygenation, and manage fatigue and waste development.
您已经完成了增强线粒体、增强血流量、增加氧合作用以及控制疲劳和废物产生的工作。
Boom.
繁荣。
Energy's there.
能量就在那里。
Fatigue is there.
疲劳就在那里。
I'm not going to get tired or have to quit or stop or sit down doing any of these activities I want.
我不会感到疲倦，也不会不得不退出、停止或坐下来做任何我想做的活动。
At the same time, if you look at the literature on mortality, one of the strongest predictors of how long you're going to live is your VO2 max.
同时，如果您查看有关死亡率的文献，您会发现最大摄氧量是预测您寿命的最有力指标之一。
So we've set up a scenario in which you're going to hit all three of those primary goals by doing a combination of this training.
因此，我们设置了一个场景，您将通过结合进行此培训来实现所有三个主要目标。
You're not going to miss any plausible adaptation from endurance training, and you should be set for regardless of your goal.
您不会错过耐力训练中任何可能的适应，并且无论您的目标是什么，您都应该做好准备。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Incredible.
难以置信。
And as I understand, totally compatible with strength and hypertrophy training, provided that your goal is to also be strong and also selectively hypertrophy or generally hypertrophy your muscles or maintain your muscles.
据我了解，与力量和肥大训练完全兼容，前提是您的目标也是强壮并且选择性肥大或总体肥大您的肌肉或维持您的肌肉。
For many people that are listening to this, I'm guessing that they have an interest in building more endurance, but not just the ability to go further, but the ability to go a given distance at a higher speed and to do it with better form and to breathe better and to feel better before, during, and after.
对于许多正在听这个的人来说，我猜他们有兴趣增强耐力，但不仅仅是走得更远的能力，而是以更高的速度走完给定距离的能力，以更好的形式做到这一点，呼吸更好，在之前、期间和之后感觉更好。
For those folks, maybe you could spell out a program that combines these different elements of endurance and does so in a way that informs how, for instance, the higher intensity, short duration sprints would be expected to improve their longer duration work and how perhaps their longer duration work can progress if they are careful to include some planks and some wall sits and things of that sort.
对于这些人来说，也许你可以制定一个计划，将这些不同的耐力要素结合起来，并以某种方式进行，例如，告诉人们如何通过更高强度、短时间的冲刺来改善他们的长期工作，以及如果他们小心地加入一些木板和一些墙坐等类似的东西，他们的长期工作可能会如何取得进展。
I ask this question specifically because I have to believe that while there probably are some folks out there that are looking to just maximize their plank from week to week to week-
我特别问这个问题是因为我必须相信，虽然可能有些人正在寻求每周最大化他们的平板支撑-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
typically, it seems that people fall into these categories of either wanting to get stronger and get bigger muscles to varying degrees, or to get better at endurance, or to get better at everything overall.
通常情况下，人们似乎属于以下几类：要么想要在不同程度上变得更强壮并获得更大的肌肉，要么想要提高耐力，要么在所有方面都变得更好。
Right now, I'd really like to just focus on what you think is a nice contour of a program for the person that wants to get better at endurance but do it with more speed, more stability, and just feel like a strong endurance runner, cycler, swimmer, or whatever happened to be their endurance event.
现在，我真的想把注意力集中在你认为的一个很好的计划轮廓上，这个计划适合那些想要提高耐力但希望以更快的速度、更稳定的速度完成的人，并且感觉自己是一名强大的耐力跑运动员、自行车运动员、游泳运动员或任何耐力项目的运动员。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, great.
好的，太好了。
So let's just give an example.
让我们举个例子。
Maybe you want to run your first half-marathon, something like that, okay?
也许你想跑你的第一个半程马拉松，类似的事情，好吗？
Or maybe done it a couple of times before, but you want to get better at that time.
或者也许之前已经做过几次，但当时你想做得更好。
I would probably put somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 to 70% of your mileage in the moderate intensity zone.
我可能会将您里程的 60% 到 70% 附近的某个地方置于中等强度区域。
Okay?
好的？
So you need to accumulate mileage, and you need to be able to handle what we call the tissue tolerance.
所以你需要积累里程，并且你需要能够处理我们所说的组织耐受性。
So in this case, your feet need to be able to handle 13 miles of pounding.
因此，在这种情况下，您的脚需要能够承受 13 英里的冲击。
Okay?
好的？
It doesn't matter how much high heart rate training you do or your fat deliverability.
您进行多少高心率训练或您的脂肪输送能力并不重要。
None of that matters if your feet are blown up by mile eight.
如果你的脚在第八英里时就被炸毁了，那么这些都无关紧要。
Okay?
好的？
So in addition, we talked about how even training in that 70 to 85% heart rate zone is quite effective at oxygen delivery, fat utilization, capitalization, et cetera.
此外，我们还讨论了即使在 70% 至 85% 心率区域进行训练，在氧气输送、脂肪利用、资本化等方面也非常有效。
So you're going to get a lot of direct endurance benefits from that work.
所以你将从这项工作中获得很多直接的耐力益处。
You're also going to be working on what's honestly going to be one of your limiting factors, which is that tissue tolerance and that pounding, okay?
您还将致力于解决真正的限制因素之一，即组织耐受性和冲击，好吗？
In addition, you need to be efficient with your technique, and you need a lot of repetitions for motor skill development.
此外，您需要高效地运用自己的技术，并且需要大量重复来发展运动技能。
So you want to spend most of your time there.
所以你想在那里度过大部分时间。
It's easy to recover from.
很容易从中恢复过来。
It's not extremely demanding and challenging.
这并不是非常苛刻和具有挑战性的。
Awesome.
惊人的。
That leaves you with another 30% or 40% of training.
这样您就可以完成另外 30% 或 40% 的训练。
I would spend 10% of that in that 20-second burst area.
我会把其中的 10% 花在 20 秒突发区域上。
You're going to drive up fatigue extremely high, and you're going to really maximize your ability to recover from waste production.
你会极度疲劳，并且会最大限度地提高你从废物生产中恢复的能力。
All right.
好的。
Great.
伟大的。
I would spend the remaining amount of time either on a little bit of actually maximum speed stuff.
我会把剩下的时间花在一些实际最大速度的事情上。
That could actually be in the 20-second burst if you're really trying to go as fast as you can at the beginning of that exercise.
如果你在开始练习时真的想尽可能快的话，那实际上可能是在 20 秒的爆发中。
And then the rest of it I would spend in that other zone, which is more of the five to 15 minutes, but you're probably going to want to repeat those.
然后剩下的时间我会花在另一个区域，也就是 5 到 15 分钟，但你可能会想重复这些。
And this is when things like 800-meter run, rest for double the time, and then repeat that two or three times.
这就是像 800 米跑这样的事情，休息双倍的时间，然后重复两到三次。
You actually need that in this scenario because you're going to need to be able to be running for two-- Most people are going to do a half marathon in maybe around two hours or so, something like that.
在这种情况下，你实际上需要这个，因为你需要能够跑两个人——大多数人会在大约两个小时左右的时间内跑完半程马拉松，类似的事情。
And so you want a little bit of what we call repeated endurance.
所以你需要一点我们所说的反复耐力。
Right?
正确的？
So be able to handle that higher heart rate, come back down, do it again.
因此，能够应对较高的心率，然后降下来，再做一次。
At the same time, that's actually how you bump your mileage up.
同时，这实际上也是您增加里程的方式。
So instead of having to just do more of these long-duration distance runs, you can still get maybe five or six miles done in a day if you're going to do a one-mile repeat or whatever number you're looking at.
因此，如果您要重复一英里或任何您想要的数字，您仍然可以在一天内跑五到六英里，而不必进行更多的长时间距离跑步。
So for a lot of people, that's kind of how I would structure it.
所以对于很多人来说，这就是我的结构方式。
That honestly is very similar to what we laid out in the previous conversation, which is getting to this idea that more than 50% should be basically practice.
老实说，这与我们在之前的谈话中所阐述的非常相似，即超过 50% 的内容应该基本上是练习。
A little bit of work at the very top end of the spectrum, but not too much.
在最高端进行一些工作，但不要太多。
And then a little bit of work at the other end, and you should be in a good spot.
然后在另一端做一些工作，你应该处于一个好的位置。
A major mistake one would make here is only doing the long-duration steady-state stuff and just sort of saying, "I'm going to run five miles this week and then do six miles next week, and seven the set." That might work for you, is I think we have enough evidence at this point, both in the scientific realm as well as most of the coaches, I think, in this space would agree with me is that's a suboptimal strategy.
人们在这里犯的一个主要错误就是只做长期稳定状态的事情，然后说：“我这周要跑五英里，然后下周跑六英里，然后跑七英里。”这可能对你有用，我认为我们现在有足够的证据，无论是在科学领域还是大多数教练，我认为，在这个领域会同意我的观点，这是一个次优的策略。
So it could work, but we can do better.
所以它可以工作，但我们可以做得更好。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And in terms of the structure of a program like this, I realize that those structures vary tremendously.
就这样的程序的结构而言，我意识到这些结构差异很大。
Different coaches and different books-
不同的教练和不同的书——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
and different programs are going to say, "Oh, you should run Monday through Friday with weekends off-"
不同的程序会说，“哦，你应该周一到周五跑步，周末休息——”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure
当然可以
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
or every other day.
或每隔一天。
But in terms of this 70%/30% divide where 70% is going toward the specific event-
但就 70%/30% 的划分而言，其中 70% 用于特定事件 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep
是的
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
doing the kind of work that you're going to do during the specific event that you're most interested in cultivating or improving-
做你在特定活动期间你最有兴趣培养或改进的工作-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure
当然可以
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
...
...
and the remaining 30% coming from other sorts of supporting work.
剩下的30%来自其他类型的支持工作。
How should one think about distributing that other 30%?
人们应该如何考虑分配另外的 30%？
Should it be all geared towards maximizing recovery for the 70%?
一切都应该以最大限度地提高 70% 的恢复率为目标吗？
Or in other words, could I do all that 30% work on one day?
或者换句话说，我能在一天内完成 30% 的工作吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I probably would split it into two days.
我可能会把它分成两天。
That's the reality of it is.
这就是事实。
So if you're thinking, "Man, coach wants me to train six days a week.
所以，如果你在想，“伙计，教练希望我每周训练六天。
My schedule is tight.
我的日程安排很紧。
I can pull off four to five." Okay, great.
我可以完成四到五个任务。”好的，太好了。
What I might say is two of those days are just your tempo.
我想说的是，其中两天只是你的节奏。
Right?
正确的？
This is what a runner would call this, like tempo training, kind of in that space.
这就是跑步者所说的，就像节奏训练一样，在那个空间里。
Great.
伟大的。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Remind us what tempo training is, just for the uninformed.
提醒我们什么是节奏训练，仅供不知情的人使用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It can be this 60% to 80% effort range where you're running at probably the same stride length and rate that you're going to run your race at.
可能是在 60% 到 80% 的努力范围内，您的跑步步幅和速度可能与您参加比赛时的步幅和速度相同。
Maybe a little bit lower, but something similar.
也许有点低，但类似。
You're practicing skill, you're accruing mileage, and you're getting work in, for sure, work, but it's not absolutely the fastest you can sprint, and it's also not conversation.
你在练习技能，你在积累里程，你在工作，当然，工作，但这绝对不是你能冲刺的最快速度，而且也不是谈话。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So this would be what before we referred to as the 10 minutes of fast running or 10 minutes of fast rowing.
所以这就是之前我们所说的10分钟快跑或者10分钟快划船。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. This is lower intensity than that.
不。这个强度比那个低。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Got it.
明白了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is work accumulation.
这就是工作积累。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Got it.
明白了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is practice stuff.
这是练习的东西。
Then one of the days a week, I would probably enter in that 20-second, 30-second burst for a little bit of speed there, and then one of the other days is when I would do that true high intensity as hard as I can for hitting a VO2 max, something like that.
然后每周的某一天，我可能会进入 20 秒、30 秒的爆发，以提高一点速度，然后在其他日子里，我会尽我所能地进行真正的高强度训练，以达到最大摄氧量，类似这样的事情。
So that's probably how I'd break it up if I had four days a week.
所以如果我每周有四天时间的话，我可能会这样分解它。
If you had five, you can maybe add in another day where you do more of that volume accumulation practice work.
如果你有五个，你也许可以在另一天添加更多的体积积累练习。
But that's a pretty good split.
但这是一个相当不错的分割。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Well, this is the point in the episode where I say thank you ever so much.
嗯，这就是这一集里我非常感谢你们的地方。
You provided an enormous amount of incredibly interesting, clear information that's also actionable.
您提供了大量令人难以置信的有趣、清晰且可操作的信息。
I do feel as if I far better understand endurance in its many forms and even the cellular underpinnings of that, and even subcellular underpinnings of what endurance adaptations are and how to foster those through specific protocols, things that not only I can do tomorrow, but that I will do tomorrow.
我确实觉得我似乎更好地理解了多种形式的耐力，甚至是其细胞基础，甚至是耐力适应的亚细胞基础，以及如何通过特定的方案来培养这些基础，这些事情不仅是我明天可以做的，而且是我明天会做的。
And where I hit my pain points, I'll understand what's happening and the adaptation that I'm triggering.
当我遇到痛点时，我会了解正在发生的事情以及我正在触发的适应。
When my legs are burning or I'm sucking for air through my mouth, or I can calmly move along just through nasal breathing, I will now know what's happening in my body and the specific adaptations that I'm triggering.
当我的双腿感到灼痛或我通过嘴吸入空气时，或者我可以仅通过鼻呼吸平静地移动时，我现在会知道我的身体发生了什么以及我正在触发的具体适应。
I think you also highlight something that is vitally important, and I've never heard it phrased as clearly as you did today, which is that it really doesn't matter how one seeks out to achieve fat loss, provided certain criteria are met, even while certain forms of exercise tap into fat stores more than others.
我认为你还强调了一些至关重要的事情，我从来没有像你今天这样清楚地表达过这一点，那就是，只要满足某些标准，即使某些形式的运动比其他运动更多地利用脂肪储存，一个人如何寻求实现减脂并不重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
And you beautifully illustrated the relationship between energy utilization and breathing, and the fact that we literally exhale fat to some extent.
你很好地阐释了能量利用和呼吸之间的关系，以及我们在某种程度上呼出脂肪的事实。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Of course.
当然。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
So once again, thank you, thank you, and thank you.
所以再次谢谢你们，谢谢你们，谢谢你们。
I know I'm not alone in recognizing this information as incredibly interesting and actionable, and indeed, I do plan to put it into action, as I hope many of our listeners will as well.
我知道我并不是唯一一个认为这些信息非常有趣且可操作的人，事实上，我确实计划将其付诸行动，我希望我们的许多听众也能这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yet again, the pleasure is actually all mine, and I actually really appreciate the fact that you let me go so far into metabolism.
再说一次，这种快乐实际上是我的全部，而且我真的很感激你让我进入新陈代谢这么远。
My PhD is in human bioenergetics, so anytime I can go many hours into metabolism, I get very excited, and I don't typically get that leash in this format.
我的博士学位是人类生物能量学，所以每当我可以花几个小时进行新陈代谢时，我都会感到非常兴奋，而且我通常不会以这种形式受到束缚。
So I appreciate that.
所以我很欣赏这一点。
I know you understand your audience will love that, hopefully.
我知道你知道你的观众会喜欢这个，希望如此。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
Oh, they'll love it, and I think that they'll especially love it because they understand that if one can wrap their head around even just a small fraction of the mechanisms that underlie a given protocol, it gives both tremendous depth and meaning to that protocol and makes it so much more flexible for people that can really think about what's happening as they're engaging in a given protocol and know exactly what they can expect in terms of results.
哦，他们会喜欢它，我认为他们会特别喜欢它，因为他们明白，如果一个人能够理解某一特定协议背后机制的一小部分，那么它就会为该协议赋予巨大的深度和意义，并使其更加灵活，让人们能够真正思考在参与某一特定协议时发生的事情，并确切地知道他们可以期望得到什么结果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
We've been on a bit of a journey here.
我们在这里经历了一段旅程。
We've covered a lot of ground with speed development, and strength, and hypertrophy, and now we walked through probably several hours here of endurance.
我们已经讨论了速度发展、力量和肥大方面的很多内容，现在我们在这里进行了可能几个小时的耐力训练。
What I would love to do next is to just give you a more straightforward, not as much background, not as much metabolism, none of the mechanisms, right into protocols for someone who says, "Look, I want to hit those marks you keep talking about.
接下来我想做的是给你一个更简单的、没有那么多背景、没有那么多新陈代谢、没有任何机制的协议，让那些说“听着，我想达到你一直在谈论的那些目标”的人。
I want to look good, I want to feel good, and I want to do that across my lifespan." How would I build all these things into a protocol that actually covers maybe the entire year?
我想要看起来很好，我想要感觉很好，我想要在我的一生中做到这一点。”我如何将所有这些东西构建成一个实际上涵盖全年的协议？
And how would I be able to repeat that year after year?
我怎样才能年复一年地重复这样的事呢？
So I almost have this evergreen, sustainable, year-long periodization structure that covers all the nodes I need to if I want everything we've talked about in these nine adaptations in this short series.
因此，如果我想要我们在这个简短系列的九个改编中讨论的所有内容，我几乎拥有这种常青的、可持续的、长达一年的周期结构，它涵盖了我需要的所有节点。
So I would love to do that in our next conversation.
所以我很乐意在我们的下一次谈话中这样做。
Dr. Andy Galpin:
安迪·加尔平博士：
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on Spotify and Apple.
此外，请订阅 Spotify 和 Apple 上的播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。
If you have questions for us, or comments, or suggestions about topics you'd like us to cover, or guests you'd like me to include on the "Huberman Lab" podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我们有疑问，或者对您希望我们报道的主题有意见或建议，或者您希望我在“Huberman Lab”播客中加入嘉宾，请将这些内容放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
We do read all the comments.
我们确实阅读了所有评论。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and during today's episode.
另请查看开头和今天节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
I'd also like to inform you about the "Huberman Lab" podcast free newsletter.
我还想通知您有关“Huberman Lab”播客免费时事通讯的信息。
It's called the "Neural Network Newsletter," and each month, the "Neural Network Newsletter" is sent out, and it contains summaries of podcast episodes, specific protocols discussed on the "Huberman Lab" podcast, all in fairly concise format and all completely zero cost.
它被称为“神经网络通讯”，每个月都会发出“神经网络通讯”，其中包含播客剧集的摘要、“Huberman Lab”播客上讨论的具体协议，所有内容都采用相当简洁的格式，并且完全为零成本。
You can sign up for the "Neural Network Newsletter" by going to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu and click on Newsletter.
您可以访问 hubermanlab.com 注册“神经网络新闻通讯”，进入菜单并单击新闻通讯。
You provide us your email.
您向我们提供您的电子邮件。
We do not share it with anybody, and as I mentioned before, it's completely zero cost.
我们不与任何人分享它，正如我之前提到的，它完全是零成本。
By going to hubermanlab.com, you can also go into the Menu tab and go to Newsletter and see some example newsletters from months past.
通过访问 hubermanlab.com，您还可以进入“菜单”选项卡并转到“新闻通讯”，查看过去几个月的一些新闻通讯示例。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion about fitness, exercise, and performance with Dr. Andy Galpin, and as always, thank you for your interest in science.
再次感谢您今天与安迪·加尔平博士一起参加我关于健身、锻炼和表现的讨论，并一如既往地感谢您对科学的兴趣。