Controlling Sugar Cravings & Metabolism with Science-Based Tools
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
Today we are going to discuss sugar, in particular how our nervous system regulates our sugar intake and our seeking of sugar.
今天我们将讨论糖，特别是我们的神经系统如何调节我们的糖摄入量和我们对糖的寻求。
We're also going to discuss how sugar regulates our nervous system, and as you'll soon learn, sugar really impacts our brain and body by two main mechanisms.
我们还将讨论糖如何调节我们的神经系统，您很快就会了解到，糖确实通过两种主要机制影响我们的大脑和身体。
One of those mechanisms is based on the sweet taste of sugar, which itself is rewarding.
其中一种机制是基于糖的甜味，这本身就是有益的。
Even if you're not much of a sweet tooth, I confess I'm not, most people enjoy sweet taste more than bitter taste.
即使你不太爱吃甜食，我承认我不是，大多数人更喜欢甜味而不是苦味。
And the sweet taste of sugar and its various forms is strongly reinforcing, meaning it triggers the activation of neurons, nerve cells in the brain and body, that make us want to consume more of that sweet substance.
糖及其各种形式的甜味具有强烈的增强作用，这意味着它会触发大脑和身体中的神经元、神经细胞的激活，使我们想要消耗更多的甜味物质。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Incidentally, sweet tastes also make us want to eat more of other substances as well.
顺便说一句，甜味也会让我们想吃更多其他物质。
You may be familiar with that phenomenon.
您可能熟悉这种现象。
Now, sugar also triggers mechanisms in the brain and body based on its nutritive content independent of its sweetness.
现在，糖还根据其营养成分（与甜度无关）触发大脑和身体的机制。
What that means is that the actual caloric content and the way that sugar interacts with your nervous system at a subconscious level, without your awareness, also impacts your craving and seeking of sugar and other foods.
这意味着，实际的热量含量以及糖在潜意识水平上与神经系统相互作用的方式，在您没有意识到的情况下，也会影响您对糖和其他食物的渴望和寻求。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Today we are going to discuss what happens when you ingest sugar in terms of your body's reaction and your brain's reaction.
今天我们将从身体反应和大脑反应的角度讨论摄入糖时会发生什么。
We are also going to talk about what happens when you don't ingest enough sugar, because it turns out sugar is such a powerful fuel for the brain that under conditions where people don't ingest enough sugar or where their so-called blood glucose — which is basically blood sugar of a particular form — gets too low, their neurons don't function as well.
我们还将讨论当你没有摄入足够的糖时会发生什么，因为事实证明，糖对大脑来说是一种强大的燃料，在人们没有摄入足够的糖或所谓的血糖（基本上是一种特定形式的血糖）过低的情况下，他们的神经元无法正常工作。
That said, there are conditions of very low blood sugar in which neurons can function even better.
也就是说，在血糖极低的情况下，神经元可以更好地发挥作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, today we are going to talk about the ins and outs, the ups and downs of sugar as it relates to your nervous system.
因此，今天我们将讨论糖与神经系统的关系的来龙去脉和起伏。
By the end of this episode, I'm confident that you'll have a much clearer picture as to how much sugar you should be ingesting, whether or not you should avoid sugars that you're currently eating, and you will certainly understand much, much more about the energy and fuel sources that your brain relies on, which I am certain will allow you to make better informed choices about the foods you eat and avoid, toward mental health, physical health and performance.
在本集结束时，我相信您将更清楚地了解自己应该摄入多少糖，是否应该避免当前正在吃的糖，并且您肯定会更多地了解您的大脑所依赖的能量和燃料来源，我确信这将使您能够对所吃和避免的食物做出更明智的选择，以实现心理健康、身体健康和表现。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是将有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息带给公众。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, let's talk about sugar.
好吧，我们来谈谈糖。
Let's talk about how sugar impacts your brain and how your brain impacts your pursuit or your avoidance of sugar.
让我们谈谈糖如何影响您的大脑以及您的大脑如何影响您对糖的追求或避免。
Let's get a few things out of the way first.
让我们先解决一些问题。
The first thing is that there's nothing inherently bad about sugar.
首先，糖本身并没有什么坏处。
I know the word sugar gets a bad rap nowadays, and indeed, you're going to hear over and over again during this podcast that consuming a lot of refined sugars, in particular high-fructose corn syrup, is known to have a very large number of bad effects on the brain and body.
我知道“糖”这个词如今名声不好，事实上，在这个播客中你会一遍又一遍地听到，食用大量精制糖，特别是高果糖玉米糖浆，已知会对大脑和身体产生大量不良影响。
I don't know that there's anyone that really debates that anymore.
我不知道还有人真正争论这个问题。
Even if we just agree, and I think we should all agree, on the so-called calories-in-calories-out principle, right?
即使我们只是同意，而且我认为我们都应该同意所谓的“卡路里输入卡路里输出”原则，对吗？
It's a principle of thermodynamics that if we ingest more energy than we burn, we are going to gain weight.
热力学原理是，如果我们摄入的能量多于消耗的能量，我们的体重就会增加。
If we ingest less energy than we burn, we are generally going to lose weight.
如果我们摄入的能量少于消耗的能量，我们通常会减肥。
If the two things are in balance, ingestion and burning of energy, well then we're going to maintain weight.
如果能量的摄入和燃烧这两件事保持平衡，那么我们就能保持体重。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So everyone agrees on that.
所以大家都同意这一点。
I agree on that.
我同意这一点。
But beyond that, there are a number of ways in which particular nutrients — in the case of today's episode, sugar — impact the way that the brain works such that we tend to seek out more of particular nutrients.
但除此之外，特定的营养素（在今天的节目中就是糖）会通过多种方式影响大脑的工作方式，从而使我们倾向于寻找更多的特定营养素。
For instance, if we eat sugar, there are two, or at least two mechanisms by which we will crave more sugar.
例如，如果我们吃糖，有两种或至少两种机制会让我们渴望更多的糖。
I think most people are aware of that experience, but today I'm going to explain exactly how that works.
我想大多数人都知道这种经历，但今天我将准确解释它是如何运作的。
But also, that when we ingest sugar it has a bunch of different effects on the way that our neural circuits work that can allow us to be more or less focused, more or less agitated, more or less happy, more or less depressed in some cases.
而且，当我们摄入糖时，它会对我们的神经回路的工作方式产生一系列不同的影响，使我们或多或少集中注意力，或多或少焦躁，或多或少快乐，在某些情况下或多或少抑郁。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So today as we explore this thing we're calling sugar, we are going to explore that mainly in the context of the nervous system, but also in the context of how the nervous system regulates many, many functions and behaviors that are important to all of you.
因此，今天，当我们探索这种我们称之为糖的东西时，我们将主要在神经系统的背景下进行探索，但也会在神经系统如何调节对你们所有人都很重要的许多功能和行为的背景下进行探索。
Your ability to think, your ability to exercise, your ability to gain weight, lose weight, whatever your goals might happen to be, sugar plays a critical role in achieving those goals.
你的思考能力、锻炼能力、增重、减肥的能力，无论你的目标是什么，糖在实现这些目标方面都起着至关重要的作用。
In some cases, if you're ingesting too much at the wrong times or the wrong forms, sugar can actually impede those goals.
在某些情况下，如果您在错误的时间或错误的形式摄入过多糖，实际上会阻碍这些目标的实现。
In fact, sugar can prevent all the right behaviors from allowing you to achieve the goals that you want.
事实上，糖可以阻止所有正确的行为，让你无法实现你想要的目标。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So today we are going to place sugar into its proper context.
所以今天我们要把糖放在适当的背景下。
The way I want to start off by doing that is to tell you a little bit of what happens when we eat and a little bit of what the brain does to respond to those events.
我想首先告诉你一些我们吃东西时会发生什么，以及大脑对这些事件做出的反应。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what happens when we eat?
那么当我们吃东西时会发生什么呢？
Well, I've done an entire episode on metabolism.
嗯，我已经完成了一整集关于新陈代谢的内容。
So if you're interested in the full cascade of hormonal and neural events that occurs when we eat, please check out that episode.
因此，如果您对我们进食时发生的一系列荷尔蒙和神经事件感兴趣，请查看该集。
But for sake of today's discussion, let's just take a what I call top-contour view of the hormonal response to ingesting food.
但为了今天的讨论，让我们以我所说的顶部轮廓视图来观察摄入食物的荷尔蒙反应。
Now, anytime we eat, that is the consequence of a number of things that happen before we ate.
现在，任何时候我们吃饭，都是饭前发生的许多事情的结果。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's a hormone in our brain and body called ghrelin, spelled G-H-R-E-L-I-N.
我们的大脑和身体中有一种激素，称为生长素释放肽，拼写为 G-H-R-E-L-I-N。
Ghrelin is a hormone that increases depending on how long it's been since we ate last, okay?
胃饥饿素是一种激素，它的增加取决于距离我们上次吃饭的时间有多长，好吗？
So the longer it's been since we had a meal, ghrelin levels are going to be higher and higher and higher, and it essentially makes us hungry by interacting with particular neurons in an area of the brain called the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus, and some other areas as well, like the lateral hypothalamus.
因此，我们进餐的时间越长，胃饥饿素的水平就会越来越高，它本质上是通过与大脑中下丘脑弓状核区域以及其他一些区域（如下丘脑外侧）中的特定神经元相互作用而让我们感到饥饿。
You don't need to know the names of those brain areas, but if you'd like to know them, there they are.
你不需要知道这些大脑区域的名称，但如果你想知道它们，它们就在那里。
Ghrelin increases, it tends to make us hungry.
胃饥饿素增加，它往往会让我们感到饥饿。
And then when we eat, typically what happens is ghrelin levels go down.
当我们吃东西时，通常会发生饥饿素水平下降的情况。
So it's a very logical system.
所以这是一个非常合乎逻辑的系统。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, when we eat, assuming that we eat carbohydrates, but even if we just eat some protein and some fats, we will experience a slight, or in some cases, a large rise in blood glucose.
现在，当我们吃饭时，假设我们吃碳水化合物，但即使我们只吃一些蛋白质和一些脂肪，我们也会经历轻微的，或者在某些情况下，血糖大幅上升。
Blood glucose is simply blood sugar, and the body and brain, we should say in particular the nervous system, doesn't function well if blood sugar is too high or too low.
血糖就是血糖，如果血糖过高或过低，身体和大脑，尤其是神经系统，就无法正常运作。
So as a consequence, we have another hormone which is released from the pancreas, which is called insulin, which helps regulate the amount of glucose in the bloodstream.
因此，我们有另一种从胰腺释放的激素，称为胰岛素，它有助于调节血液中的葡萄糖含量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So even if you were to ingest an entire cup, an eight-ounce cup of pure table sugar, which would send your blood glucose very, very high, assuming that you have a normal insulin response, that you're not diabetic.
因此，即使您摄入一整杯（八盎司杯）纯食糖，您的血糖也会非常非常高（假设您的胰岛素反应正常），那么您也不是糖尿病患者。
That insulin response would help clamp that blood glucose level so that it did not cause damage to your brain and body.
胰岛素反应将有助于限制血糖水平，以免对您的大脑和身体造成损害。
Because if blood sugar goes too high, it's actually toxic to neurons and other cells of your body, it can kill them off.
因为如果血糖过高，实际上对身体的神经元和其他细胞有毒，可以杀死它们。
And neurons of the central nervous system, meaning the brain and spinal cord, once they are dead, they do not come back.
中枢神经系统的神经元，即大脑和脊髓，一旦死亡，就不会再回来。
So your biological systems understand this at a biological level, that is, and prevent that death of cells due to high blood sugar by keeping insulin around in order to clamp blood glucose.
因此，您的生物系统在生物水平上理解这一点，即通过保留胰岛素以控制血糖来防止高血糖导致的细胞死亡。
Diabetics, we call them type 1 diabetics, who don't make insulin have to take insulin when they eat, in particular when they eat foods that raise their blood sugar, specifically to avoid that neurotoxicity and the other deleterious effects of high blood sugar.
糖尿病患者，我们称之为 1 型糖尿病患者，他们无法产生胰岛素，在进食时必须服用胰岛素，特别是当他们吃会升高血糖的食物时，特别是为了避免神经毒性和高血糖的其他有害影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, so ghrelin is a hormone that goes up the longer it's been since we've eaten.
好吧，胃饥饿素是一种激素，我们吃东西的时间越长，它的含量就会越高。
It tends to stimulate hunger.
它往往会刺激饥饿感。
When we eat, ghrelin is suppressed, blood glucose typically goes up, especially when we eat a carbohydrate-containing meal.
当我们进食时，生长素释放肽受到抑制，血糖通常会升高，尤其是当我们吃含碳水化合物的食物时。
When blood glucose goes up, it's regulated in the body.
当血糖升高时，它会在体内受到调节。
Meaning its peaks and its valleys are more or less smoothed out and that glucose is sequestered.
这意味着它的峰和谷或多或少被平滑，并且葡萄糖被隔离。
It's taken away where it needs to be taken away, and in certain locations, it's delivered to cells so that those cells can use the glucose.
它在需要被带走的地方被带走，并且在某些位置，它被输送到细胞，以便这些细胞可以使用葡萄糖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, one of the chief organs for glucose utilization is the brain.
现在，利用葡萄糖的主要器官之一是大脑。
Neurons are tremendously metabolically active, and their preferred mode of metabolism is glucose metabolism.
神经元的代谢非常活跃，它们首选的代谢模式是葡萄糖代谢。
In other words, neurons basically run on sugar, which is not to say that you should eat a lot of sugar.
换句话说，神经元基本上是靠糖来运转的，这并不是说你应该吃大量的糖。
As you'll see today, there are states of mind and body, for instance fasted states, in which people report having immense amounts of mental clarity, and their blood glucose is actually quite low.
正如您今天将看到的，存在着某些精神和身体状态，例如禁食状态，人们报告说在这种状态下精神非常清醒，而且他们的血糖实际上相当低。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, it is simply not the case that the more sugar that you ingest, the better that your brain will function.
因此，并不是说摄入的糖越多，大脑的功能就越好。
But it is the case that for most people, meaning people who are not on a ketogenic or very low-carbohydrate diet — they're not adapted to low-carbohydrate diets — that neurons in their brain and body are using glucose in order to function.
但事实是，对于大多数人来说，即那些没有采用生酮或极低碳水化合物饮食的人——他们不适应低碳水化合物饮食——他们的大脑和身体中的神经元正在使用葡萄糖来发挥作用。
That's what allows those neurons to fire electrical potentials, that's how we refer to it.
这就是让这些神经元激发电势的原因，这就是我们所说的。
Firing, meaning sending electrical signals down their length to communicate with other neurons.
发射，意味着沿着其长度发送电信号以与其他神经元进行通信。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To illustrate just how important glucose is for brain function, I'd like to describe a study that just recently came out that sits on a long history of similar studies, but the one that just came out is particularly interesting.
为了说明葡萄糖对大脑功能的重要性，我想描述一下最近发表的一项研究，该研究建立在类似研究的悠久历史之上，但刚刚发表的一项特别有趣。
Now, I want to point out that unless I say otherwise, I am going to refer to typical diets.
现在，我想指出，除非另有说明，否则我将参考典型的饮食。
Meaning, I have to believe that most people out there are ingesting some starch or carbohydrate.
意思是，我必须相信大多数人都摄入了一些淀粉或碳水化合物。
I do realize there are people following very low-carbohydrate diets or moderately carbohydrate diets.
我确实意识到有人遵循极低碳水化合物饮食或中等碳水化合物饮食。
I even know that there're some folks out there who are on the so-called carnivore diet.
我什至知道有些人采用所谓的肉食饮食。
They only eat meat and organs, maybe a little fruit.
他们只吃肉和内脏，也许还有一点水果。
But I'm going to assume that the vast majority of people listening ingest proteins and carbohydrates.
但我假设绝大多数听众都摄入蛋白质和碳水化合物。
So, unless I say ketogenic or I emphasize ketosis itself, which I will, I'm referring to the kind of typical diet where people are consuming fats, proteins, and carbohydrates.
因此，除非我说生酮或强调酮症本身（我会这样做），否则我指的是人们消耗脂肪、蛋白质和碳水化合物的典型饮食。
I count myself as one such individual.
我认为自己就是这样的一个人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
At some point, I might try the carnivore diet, who knows?
在某些时候，我可能会尝试肉食饮食，谁知道呢？
I might try a pure vegan diet, who knows?
我可能会尝试纯素食，谁知道呢？
But for my entire life up until now, I'm 46 years old, I have been a proud omnivore.
但我一生至今，46岁了，我一直是一个自豪的杂食动物。
Meaning, I've tried to eat high-quality, as much as I can, unprocessed foods.
意思是，我尝试尽可能多地吃高质量的未加工食品。
I try and really avoid highly processed foods, but I do eat from those three macronutrient groups, proteins, carbohydrates, and fats, and I'm going to assume that most of you do as well.
我尽力避免高度加工的食品，但我确实吃这三种常量营养素，即蛋白质、碳水化合物和脂肪，我想你们大多数人也会这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The study I'd like to emphasize recorded from neurons, nerve cells, in the brain, in particular in the part of the brain that responds to visual images, the so-called visual cortex.
我想强调这项研究是从大脑中的神经元、神经细胞记录的，特别是大脑中对视觉图像做出反应的部分，即所谓的视觉皮层。
And neurons in the visual cortex are beautifully tuned, as we say, to particular features of what we see.
正如我们所说，视觉皮层中的神经元能够完美地适应我们所看到的特定特征。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The primary example of this, the kind of classic example, is if you put a little electrode next to a neuron in your visual cortex, or if we put you into an fMRI scanner machine, which can detect neural activity.
最典型的例子是，如果你在视觉皮层的神经元旁边放一个小电极，或者我们把你放入功能磁共振成像扫描仪中，它可以检测神经活动。
And I were to show you a bunch of just little lines, bars of light, they could be dark bars of light, they could be light bars of light on a screen in front of you.
我要向你展示一堆小线条、光条，它们可能是你面前屏幕上的暗光条，也可能是浅色光条。
So some would be vertical, some would be horizontal, some would be at 45 degrees.
所以有些是垂直的，有些是水平的，有些是 45 度。
What we would see is that some neurons respond best, meaning they fire a lot of electrical activity to vertical lines.
我们会看到一些神经元反应最好，这意味着它们向垂直线发射大量电活动。
Other ones respond to horizontal lines, and others respond to 45-degree lines.
其他的响应水平线，其他的响应 45 度线。
This so-called orientation tuning, meaning because of the orientation of the line, is a cardinal, classic feature of the way that your visual system is built.
这种所谓的方向调整，意思是因为线的方向，是视觉系统构建方式的一个基本、经典特征。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Everything that you see, whether it's a face or a dog or a cat or a landscape, is built up from these very simple neuron responses.
你看到的一切，无论是一张脸、一只狗、一只猫还是一片风景，都是由这些非常简单的神经元反应建立起来的。
In other words, when you look at a face, there are neurons deep in the brain that respond to faces, but the only reason that those neurons can respond to those faces is because they receive signals from neurons in your visual cortex, some of which respond to vertical lines, some of which respond to horizontal lines, and some of which respond to 45-degree lines.
换句话说，当你看一张脸时，大脑深处有一些神经元会对脸部做出反应，但这些神经元能够对这些脸部做出反应的唯一原因是因为它们接收来自视觉皮层神经元的信号，其中一些对垂直线做出反应，一些对水平线做出反应，还有一些对 45 度线做出反应。
And all of those are built up in what we call a hierarchical representation, which is fancy language for "Those are the building blocks by which you see a face and you recognize a face." It's really an amazing phenomenon.
所有这些都是建立在我们所谓的层次表示中的，这是一种奇特的语言，“这些是你看到一张脸并识别一张脸的构建块”。这实在是一个令人惊奇的现象。
It happens very, very fast.
它发生得非常非常快。
You never notice that you're doing this, but everything is built up from these fundamental orientation-tuned neurons.
你永远不会注意到你正在这样做，但一切都是由这些基本的方向调整神经元构建的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, orientation-tuned neurons are so fundamental that they are the building blocks by which you make up all other things that you see.
现在，方向调整神经元是如此重要，以至于它们是构成您所看到的所有其他事物的构建块。
It's the way you read.
这就是你阅读的方式。
It's the way that you recognize faces, as I mentioned, and everything else.
正如我提到的，这是你识别面孔以及其他一切的方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Experimentally, it's quite straightforward to measure how sharply tuned one of these neurons is.
在实验上，测量这些神经元之一的调整程度是非常简单的。
In other words, if I were to show you a vertical line and find a neuron in your brain that responds to vertical lines, I could also ask whether or not that neuron fires any electrical activity in response to a line that's not quite vertical, maybe just 10 degrees off vertical, or 20 degrees, or 30 degrees.
换句话说，如果我向你展示一条垂直线，并在你的大脑中找到一个对垂直线做出反应的神经元，我还可以询问该神经元是否会响应一条不完全垂直的线（可能仅偏离垂直线 10 度、20 度或 30 度）而激发任何电活动。
What I eventually would find is that that neuron was orientation-tuned over a particular range of angles.
我最终发现该神经元在特定的角度范围内进行了方向调整。
It's not only going to respond to vertical lines, it's also going to respond to lines that are about 10 degrees off vertical in either side, but probably not much more.
它不仅会响应垂直线，还会响应两侧偏离垂直线约 10 度的线，但可能不会更多。
Maybe 20, but usually it's going to be anywhere from vertical to just tilted slightly.
也许是 20 个，但通常会是从垂直到稍微倾斜的任何位置。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In the recent experiment that was published in the journal Neuron, Cell Press journal, excellent journal, the authors asked a really interesting question.
在最近发表在《Neuron》杂志、《Cell Press》杂志、优秀杂志上的实验中，作者提出了一个非常有趣的问题。
They asked whether or not the sharpness of tuning, the precision of orientation tuning of these neurons, is dependent on blood glucose level.
他们询问这些神经元的调节清晰度、方向调节精度是否取决于血糖水平。
So just to cut to the chase, to give you the answer, what they found is that when subjects are well-fed, neurons that responded to vertical responded very strongly to vertical, but not very much at all to other angles of what we call stimuli, to lines that are 10 degrees or 20 degrees off.
因此，直接切入正题，给你答案，他们发现，当受试者吃得饱饱时，对垂直方向做出反应的神经元对垂直方向的反应非常强烈，但对我们所说的刺激的其他角度，即偏离 10 度或 20 度的线的反应则根本不强烈。
If they looked at neurons that were primarily tuned, right?
如果他们观察主要调整的神经元，对吧？
— that preferred horizontal lines, they found the same thing.
- 喜欢水平线的人，他们发现了同样的事情。
So it wasn't something unique to vertical lines.
所以这并不是垂直线独有的东西。
What they basically found was the sharpness, the precision of tuning of neurons in the brain was best when subjects were fed.
他们基本上发现，当受试者被喂食时，大脑神经元调节的清晰度和精确度是最好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And conversely, when subjects were fasted, the orientation tuning of these neurons became much broader.
相反，当受试者禁食时，这些神经元的方向调整变得更广泛。
What it meant was that a neuron that normally would only respond to vertical now responded to other angles of lines as well.
这意味着通常只对垂直方向做出反应的神经元现在也对其他角度的线条做出反应。
You might say, "Well, that's great, right?
你可能会说：“嗯，那太好了，对吧？
These neurons that at one point can only do one thing are now tuned to other things," but it's not so great because what that means is that in the fasted state, your perception of the outside world is actually distorted.
这些神经元在某一时刻只能做一件事，现在却被调整到做其他事情，”但这并不是那么好，因为这意味着在禁食状态下，你对外部世界的感知实际上是扭曲的。
It's blurred.
很模糊。
It's not as precise as it is when you're fed.
它不像你吃饱的时候那么精确。
When I say fed, what I really mean is when glucose is available to neurons.
当我说进食时，我真正的意思是神经元可以利用葡萄糖的时间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, for some of you, maybe many of you, and including myself, intermittent fasting or some variant thereof is actually a state that I like.
现在，对于你们中的一些人，也许很多人，包括我自己来说，间歇性禁食或其某种变体实际上是我喜欢的一种状态。
It allows me to focus.
它让我能够集中注意力。
For instance, as I mentioned before and even earlier in this podcast, I tend to eat my first meal sometime around 11:00 a.m., and then I generally eat my last meal sometime around 8:00 p.m., plus or minus an hour on either side.
例如，正如我之前甚至在本播客中早些时候提到的，我倾向于在上午 11:00 左右吃第一顿饭，然后我通常在晚上 8:00 左右吃最后一顿饭，前后各相差一个小时。
I'm not super strict about it, and occasionally I'll wake up really hungry and I'll eat something before 11:00 a.m.
我对此要求不是太严格，偶尔我会很饿地醒来，然后在上午 11:00 之前吃点东西。
I'm not super strict about this intermittent fasting thing.
我对间歇性禁食并不是很严格。
It just seems to be how my appetite works best given my schedule, et cetera.
考虑到我的日程安排等等，这似乎就是我的食欲最好的方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In the morning, I tend to be most focused, and I always associated that with the fact that I was fasted.
早上，我往往最专注，我总是将其与我禁食的事实联系起来。
I mean, just water and some caffeine.
我的意思是，只要水和一些咖啡因。
About 90 minutes after waking up, I drink my caffeine, but I hydrate from the time I get up, et cetera, et cetera.
醒来后大约 90 分钟，我会喝咖啡因，但从起床时起我就会补充水分，等等。
I know a lot of other people have had the experience of being fasted and feeling like they have a lot of mental clarity.
我知道很多人都有过禁食的经历，感觉自己的头脑很清醒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When you are in a fasted state, typically you are going to use fuels that are available to the neurons based on your intake of food the day before.
当您处于禁食状态时，通常您会根据前一天的食物摄入量使用神经元可用的燃料。
Maybe it's you're using some glycogen, maybe you're using some fat, maybe you're using some blood sugar that's derived from other storage sites in the body.
也许您正在使用一些糖原，也许您正在使用一些脂肪，也许您正在使用一些来自体内其他储存部位的血糖。
You don't actually use fat as a fuel source for neurons under typical conditions, but there are ways in which proteins and fats and glycogen, et cetera are converted into fuel that neurons can use.
在典型条件下，你实际上并不使用脂肪作为神经元的燃料来源，但有一些方法可以将蛋白质、脂肪和糖原等转化为神经元可以使用的燃料。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's interesting about this study is that the study says that when well-fed, meaning when blood glucose, sugar, is at a properly elevated level in the bloodstream, it can be delivered to the brain in a way that allows neurons to work best.
这项研究的有趣之处在于，研究表明，当营养充足时，也就是说，当血液中的血糖、糖水平处于适当升高的水平时，它可以以一种让神经元发挥最佳功能的方式输送到大脑。
Which is really all just to underscore the point that I made earlier, which is that your nervous system is extremely metabolically demanding and it loves glucose.
这实际上只是为了强调我之前提出的观点，即你的神经系统对新陈代谢的要求极高并且它喜欢葡萄糖。
Neurons love glucose.
神经元喜欢葡萄糖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, the takeaway from this study is not that you should avoid fasting.
因此，这项研究的结论并不是你应该避免禁食。
The takeaway from this study is that there are elements of the fasted state, in particular the elevations in things like epinephrine and norepinephrine, also called adrenaline and noradrenaline, that can give us this kind of clarity of mind that many people are pursuing when they fast.
这项研究的结论是，禁食状态下有一些因素，特别是肾上腺素和去甲肾上腺素（也称为肾上腺素和去甲肾上腺素）等物质的升高，可以给我们带来许多人禁食时所追求的思维清晰度。
That's kind of one of the reasons a lot of people fast.
这就是很多人禁食的原因之一。
They like the way that they feel mentally and physically.
他们喜欢自己在精神上和身体上的感受。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I think it's only fair to point out that glucose is the preferred source of fuel for the brain.
但我认为公平地指出葡萄糖是大脑的首选燃料来源。
And this study that I mentioned is one of many studies that have explored how nutritional status or blood glucose status in the brain and body influence neuronal tuning and neuronal function.
我提到的这项研究是探索大脑和身体中的营养状态或血糖状态如何影响神经元调节和神经元功能的众多研究之一。
And it really points to the fact that ultimately, your brain as an organ is a glucose-consuming machine.
它确实指出了这样一个事实：最终，你的大脑作为一个器官是一个消耗葡萄糖的机器。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, when you eat a food, that food is broken down.
现在，当你吃食物时，食物就会被分解。
If it contains carbohydrates, it's going to be converted into glucose, and that glucose can't get directly into the brain as a fuel source.
如果它含有碳水化合物，它就会转化为葡萄糖，而葡萄糖不能直接进入大脑作为燃料来源。
It actually has to be carried across the so-called blood-brain barrier, the BBB, and the actual metabolism of glucose and the delivery of the glucose to the neurons is carried out by a different cell type.
它实际上必须穿过所谓的血脑屏障（BBB），葡萄糖的实际代谢以及葡萄糖向神经元的输送是由不同的细胞类型进行的。
It's a cell type that you should all know about because it's the most abundant cell type in your brain, and maybe even in your entire nervous system.
这是一种你们都应该了解的细胞类型，因为它是您大脑中甚至整个神经系统中最丰富的细胞类型。
That's the so-called astrocyte.
这就是所谓的星形胶质细胞。
Astrocytes are one of several types of glial.
星形胶质细胞是神经胶质细胞的几种类型之一。
The word glial means glue.
胶质一词的意思是胶水。
But many people have taken that name glial, glue, to think that, "Oh, the only thing that the astrocytes are doing is just kind of holding things together."
但许多人把“胶质”这个名字称为“胶水”，认为“哦，星形胶质细胞所做的唯一事情就是把东西粘在一起。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Actually, the astrocytes are involved in delivering glucose to the neurons.
实际上，星形胶质细胞参与向神经元输送葡萄糖。
They are critically involved in shaping your neuronal function and brain plasticity, the brain's ability to change in response to experience.
它们对于塑造神经元功能和大脑可塑性（大脑响应经历而变化的能力）至关重要。
So these astrocytes are like the little waiters and waitresses bringing glucose to the neurons, and the neurons are going to do the heavy lifting that's involved in perception and behavior and action.
因此，这些星形胶质细胞就像小服务员，将葡萄糖送到神经元，而神经元将承担与感知、行为和行动有关的繁重工作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, if prior to this episode you didn't already realize that glucose, blood sugar, is vital to the function of your brain and other neurons of your nervous system, now you know.
因此，如果在本集之前您还没有意识到葡萄糖、血糖对于您的大脑和神经系统其他神经元的功能至关重要，那么现在您知道了。
For those of you that have experienced the increase in mental clarity that comes after a properly timed, properly composed — meaning it has the right macronutrients in the right ratios — and the properly sized meal, well then, now you have justification for eating something as a way to improve the way that your brain works.
对于那些经历过在适当的时间、适当的组成（这意味着它含有正确比例的正确大量营养素）和适当份量的膳食后头脑清晰度有所提高的人来说，那么，现在您有理由吃一些东西来改善大脑的工作方式。
It turns out that your brain is going to work best when it's got glucose available, whether you like to fast or not.
事实证明，无论您是否喜欢禁食，当您的大脑有足够的葡萄糖时，它都会发挥最佳作用。
That's just the reality of things.
这就是事情的现实。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The same thing is also true for the neurons in your body.
对于你体内的神经元来说也是如此。
The way that you are able to move the limbs of your body.
您能够移动身体四肢的方式。
The way you are able to perform exercise or movement of any kind, for that matter, is because neurons called motor neurons send electrical potentials to the muscle fibers.
就此而言，您能够进行任何类型的锻炼或运动的方式是因为称为运动神经元的神经元向肌肉纤维发送电势。
They release a neurotransmitter called acetylcholine, which causes contraction to the muscle fibers and allows you to move your limbs.
它们释放一种叫做乙酰胆碱的神经递质，它会引起肌肉纤维收缩，让你移动四肢。
Those neurons are also very metabolically demanding, especially when you're doing demanding types of physical work.
这些神经元对新陈代谢的要求也很高，尤其是当您从事高要求的体力工作时。
That could be cycling or running or weightlifting or yoga, or whatever it may be.
这可以是骑自行车、跑步、举重、瑜伽，或者任何其他运动。
Those neurons require a ton of glucose.
这些神经元需要大量的葡萄糖。
If you've ever had the experience of having to think very hard about how you're generating a movement, or force yourself to continue to endure in a given exercise, you might have thought, "Oh, I'm running out of fuel.
如果你曾经有过这样的经历，必须认真思考如何产生一个动作，或者强迫自己继续坚持某个特定的练习，你可能会想，“哦，我的燃料快用完了。
That's why I'm getting tired.
这就是我累的原因。
It's hard to do." That's actually the case sometimes, but that's not always the case.
这很难做到。”事实上，有时确实如此，但情况并非总是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of the reasons that it feels like work is because your so-called upper motor neurons, the ones that control the lower motor neurons in your spinal cord, which control your muscles, they have to be very metabolically active.
感觉像是在工作的原因之一是因为你所谓的上运动神经元，即控制脊髓中下运动神经元的神经元，而下运动神经元控制着你的肌肉，它们的代谢必须非常活跃。
It's one thing to engage in a reflexive movement where you're just walking around, or if you're running continuously, but when you suddenly have to focus on what you're doing and you have to generate specific patterns of motor movement, well, that feels demanding.
当你只是四处走动或者连续跑步时进行反射性运动是一回事，但是当你突然必须专注于你正在做的事情并且你必须产生特定的运动模式时，嗯，这感觉要求很高。
Because one, it increases the release of adrenaline in your brain and body, which makes you feel a little bit agitated and more alert.
因为第一，它会增加大脑和身体中肾上腺素的释放，这会让你感到有点烦躁和更加警觉。
But also, deliberate thought, deliberately controlling the way that your brain and body is moving requires more glucose uptake, more energy in those very neurons.
而且，深思熟虑、有意识地控制大脑和身体的运动方式需要更多的葡萄糖摄取，这些神经元需要更多的能量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is also why after doing a long bout of exercise you might be tired, but also if you do a bout of skill-learning of any kind.
这也是为什么在进行长时间的锻炼后，您可能会感到疲倦，而且如果您进行任何形式的技能学习，也会感到疲倦。
Or if you've been reading and thinking about what you're reading.
或者，如果您一直在阅读并思考您正在阅读的内容。
Or if you had an intense conversation with somebody, where you're really forcing yourself to listen, and hopefully they're listening to you too, and you're really trying to parse what they're saying.
或者，如果你与某人进行了一次激烈的交谈，你真的强迫自己倾听，并希望他们也在听你说话，并且你真的试图解析他们所说的内容。
Maybe you're doing that right now and you're trying to really track something, that's work.
也许你现在正在这样做，并且你正在尝试真正跟踪某些事情，这就是工作。
And that work requires glucose uptake by neurons both in the brain and in your body.
这项工作需要大脑和身体中的神经元摄取葡萄糖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now that we've established that glucose is the preferred source of fuel for the nervous system, I'd like to concentrate on a few of the other types of sugars that we ingest on a common basis and the impact that those have on brain function and body function.
既然我们已经确定葡萄糖是神经系统的首选燃料来源，我想集中讨论我们共同摄入的其他几种类型的糖，以及它们对大脑功能和身体功能的影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd particularly like to focus on fructose.
我特别想关注果糖。
Fructose, of course, is found in fruit.
当然，果糖存在于水果中。
It's also found in the infamous high-fructose corn syrup, which we will talk about today.
它也存在于臭名昭著的高果糖玉米糖浆中，我们今天将讨论它。
It's worth pointing out that the concentrations of fructose in fruit is quite low compared to the concentrations of fructose in high-fructose corn syrup.
值得指出的是，与高果糖玉米糖浆中的果糖浓度相比，水果中的果糖浓度相当低。
High-fructose corn syrup is approximately 50% fructose, which turns out to be an enormously high percentage of anything, really, especially when we contrast that to the concentrations of fructose in fruit.
高果糖玉米糖浆的果糖含量约为 50%，事实证明果糖的比例非常高，尤其是当我们将其与水果中果糖的浓度进行对比时。
Fruits have other types of sugars in them as well.
水果中还含有其他类型的糖。
The sucrose content of most fruit and fruit juices is low, although there are some fruits like melons, peaches, pineapples, and so forth, that contain a little less than 10% or so of sucrose.
大多数水果和果汁的蔗糖含量较低，但也有一些水果，如瓜类、桃子、菠萝等，其蔗糖含量略低于10%左右。
Things like mangoes can have a lot of sucrose.
像芒果这样的东西可能含有大量的蔗糖。
But typically the amount of fructose, fructose, I think, is the proper pronunciation that people are always correcting me.
但通常果糖的量，果糖，我认为，是人们总是纠正我的正确发音。
Fructose is anywhere from 1% to about 10%, right?
果糖含量在 1% 到 10% 左右，对吗？
It's really going to vary quite a bit.
它确实会发生很大的变化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Many of you have probably heard of the so-called glycemic index, which is basically a measure of how fast blood sugar rises after eating particular foods, et cetera.
你们中的许多人可能听说过所谓的血糖指数，它基本上是衡量食用特定食物等后血糖升高速度的指标。
We're going to set aside the glycemic index for now.
我们现在先把血糖指数放在一边。
We will come back to it.
我们会回来讨论这个问题。
It has some relationship to the concentrations of fructose in fruit.
与水果中果糖的浓度有一定关系。
But the point that I'd like to make is that fructose as a sugar is handled very differently in the body than is glucose.
但我想指出的是，果糖作为一种糖，在体内的处理方式与葡萄糖非常不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I also want to emphasize that because the percentage of fructose in fruit is rather low, especially compared to high-fructose corn syrup, many people have demonized fructose, saying that fructose "Makes you fat," or that "Fruit makes you fat." If you look at the data, that's not really the case.
但我还要强调的是，由于水果中果糖的比例相当低，尤其是与高果糖玉米糖浆相比，很多人都妖魔化了果糖，说果糖“让你发胖”，或者“水果让你发胖”。如果你看一下数据，事实并非如此。
The fact of the matter is that the concentrations of fructose in fruit are so low that unless someone is consuming a lot of fruit or they're consuming a lot of fruit on the backdrop of a highly processed diet or a diet that has a lot of other stuff that they might not want to be ingesting, you can't really say that fructose is fattening.
事实上，水果中果糖的浓度非常低，除非有人食用大量水果，或者在高度加工的饮食背景下食用大量水果，或者饮食中含有许多他们可能不想摄入的其他物质，否则你不能真正说果糖会让人发胖。
I don't really think that there's any basis for saying that fructose itself is bad.
我真的不认为有任何依据说果糖本身不好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, high-fructose corn syrup is a different issue.
现在，高果糖玉米糖浆是一个不同的问题。
And too much consumption of anything, but fructose included, whether or not comes fruit or otherwise, can be a problem for the ways that it impacts the neural circuits that process sugar, not just glucose, but fructose.
过多食用任何东西（包括果糖），无论是否是水果或其他食物，都可能会影响处理糖（不仅是葡萄糖，还包括果糖）的神经回路。
So we'll illustrate those neural circuits in a bit, and it'll become very clear to all of you, regardless of whether or not you have a background in biology or metabolism, nutrition or otherwise, why ingesting very high concentrations of fructose is not going to be a good thing for the way that your brain functions.
因此，我们将稍微说明一下这些神经回路，无论您是否有生物学或新陈代谢、营养学或其他方面的背景，你们所有人都会变得非常清楚，为什么摄入非常高浓度的果糖对您的大脑功能来说并不是一件好事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One of the key distinctions between glucose and fructose is that fructose most likely cannot directly access the brain.
葡萄糖和果糖之间的主要区别之一是果糖很可能无法直接进入大脑。
It actually needs to be converted into glucose in the liver.
它实际上需要在肝脏中转化为葡萄糖。
The way that conversion occurs feeds back to a set of hormones and neural pathways that we talked about earlier, which have a lot to do with appetite.
这种转换发生的方式会反馈到我们之前讨论过的一系列激素和神经通路，它们与食欲有很大关系。
And to just summarize what is now a lot of very solid data, fructose, and specifically fructose, has the ability to reduce certain hormones and peptides in our body whose main job is to suppress ghrelin.
总结一下现在有很多非常可靠的数据，果糖，特别是果糖，能够减少我们体内的某些激素和肽，其主要作用是抑制生长素释放肽。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As you recall, ghrelin is a hormone that increases the longer it's been since we've eaten, and ghrelin makes us hungry by stimulating particular neurons in our hypothalamus.
您还记得吗，胃饥饿素是一种激素，我们吃东西的时间越长，胃饥饿素的含量就会增加，胃饥饿素通过刺激下丘脑中的特定神经元使我们感到饥饿。
It actually makes us really want to eat, and in particular really makes us want to eat sugary and fatty foods.
它实际上让我们真的想吃东西，特别是真的让我们想吃含糖和脂肪的食物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Fructose reduces the activity of the hormones that reduce ghrelin.
果糖会降低减少生长素释放肽的激素的活性。
And so, the net consequence of that is that fructose increases ghrelin.
因此，其最终结果是果糖会增加生长素释放肽。
So although I and I think pretty much everyone out there, save for a few individuals, agrees that calories in, calories out is the fundamental principle of weight-loss maintenance or weight gain, ingesting fructose shifts our hormone system and, as a consequence, our neural pathways within our brain, the hypothalamus, to be hungrier, regardless of how many calories we've eaten.
因此，尽管我和我认为除少数人外，几乎每个人都同意卡路里摄入和卡路里消耗是维持减肥或体重增加的基本原则，但摄入果糖会改变我们的激素系统，因此，无论我们吃了多少卡路里，我们的大脑和下丘脑内的神经通路都会变得更加饥饿。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, I also want to be absolutely clear.
现在，我也想绝对清楚。
This does not mean that eating an apple or eating a melon or eating a couple of apricots or something is going to make you hyperphagic.
这并不意味着吃一个苹果或吃一个甜瓜或吃几个杏子或其他东西会让你暴食。
Meaning it's going to make you just want to eat and eat and eat.
这意味着它会让你只想吃、吃、吃。
That's simply not the case.
事实并非如此。
But if you compare fructose and you compare glucose, not only are they metabolized differently in the brain and body, but in addition to that, fructose has this impact of reducing the hormones that reduce hunger hormones and neural circuits.
但如果你比较果糖和葡萄糖，不仅它们在大脑和身体中的代谢不同，而且除此之外，果糖还具有减少饥饿激素和神经回路的激素的作用。
So fructose does have this kind of twist in its phenotype, right?
那么果糖的表型确实有这种扭曲，对吗？
Or its ...
或者它的...
I guess if fructose had a dating profile, this would be a kind of a red flag in that profile.
我想如果果糖有约会资料，这将是该资料中的一个危险信号。
Because fructose itself, while it's actually a pretty good fuel source in many ways, and it's often packaged in things like fruits, which bring along fiber and vitamins and minerals that I think for many of us are things that we should be eating more of and ingesting more of, it can suppress the pathways that suppress hunger, and as a consequence, it can increase hunger.
因为果糖本身在很多方面实际上是一种非常好的燃料来源，而且它经常被包装在水果等东西中，这些东西带来纤维、维生素和矿物质，我认为对我们许多人来说，这些都是我们应该多吃和摄入的东西，它可以抑制抑制饥饿的途径，因此，它可以增加饥饿感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So current recommendations for most people are to eat more fruits and vegetables.
所以目前对大多数人的建议是多吃水果和蔬菜。
But for those of you that are trying to control your hunger, ingesting a lot of fructose is probably not going to be a good idea.
但对于那些试图控制饥饿感的人来说，摄入大量果糖可能不是一个好主意。
Certainly ingesting it from high-fructose corn syrup is not going to be a good idea because of the enormous percentages of fructose in high-fructose corn syrup, 50%, or sometimes even more.
当然，从高果糖玉米糖浆中摄取它并不是一个好主意，因为高果糖玉米糖浆中果糖的比例很高，达到 50%，有时甚至更高。
But even from fruit, some people will find that fruit really quenches their appetite.
但即使从水果来看，有些人也会发现水果确实能解食欲。
Other people will find that fruit stimulates their appetite.
其他人会发现水果会刺激他们的食欲。
I suppose if you're trying to stimulate your appetite, then ingesting more fruit might actually be advantageous to you.
我想如果你想刺激食欲，那么摄入更多的水果实际上可能对你有利。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, fructose provides a bridge for us between a particular kind of sugar, hormone function, in this case ghrelin, and the hypothalamus.
因此，果糖为我们在一种特殊的糖、激素功能（在本例中为生长素释放肽）和下丘脑之间架起了一座桥梁。
Which leads us to the next question, which is "What is it about sugar that makes it such an attractive thing for us?
这就引出了下一个问题，即“糖为何对我们如此有吸引力？
Why do we like it so much?" The obvious answer that most people arrive at is "Well, it just tastes really, really good." But that's actually not the way it works.
为什么我们这么喜欢它？”大多数人得出的明显答案是“嗯，味道真的非常非常好。”但实际上并不是这样的。
The rewarding properties, as we say, of sugar, whether or not they come in the form of sucrose or fructose or foods that increase glucose to a very high level, actually is not just related to the taste of the foods that produce that elevation in glucose, sucrose or fructose.
正如我们所说，糖的有益特性，无论它们是否以蔗糖或果糖的形式出现，或者是否以将葡萄糖提高到很高水平的食物的形式出现，实际上不仅仅与导致葡萄糖、蔗糖或果糖升高的食物的味道有关。
It is in part, but that's only part of the story.
这是部分原因，但这只是故事的一部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The rest of the story, once you understand it, can actually place you in a position to much better control your sugar intake of all kinds, but also your food intake in ways that can allow you to make much better choices about the foods you ingest.
一旦您理解了这个故事的其余部分，实际上可以让您更好地控制各种糖的摄入量，同时也可以让您对摄入的食物做出更好的选择。
Actually, at this point, I should probably give a confession.
其实，到了这个时候，我或许该坦白了。
I've said today, and I'll say it again, and I've said it on previous podcasts, I don't have much of a sweet tooth, and indeed, that's true.
我今天说过，我会再说一遍，我在之前的播客上也说过，我不太爱吃甜食，确实，这是事实。
I can kind of pass on chocolate or ice cream or things like that.
我可以传递巧克力或冰淇淋之类的东西。
It seems like with each successive year, sweet things are less and less appealing to me.
似乎一年比一年，甜食对我的吸引力越来越小。
Of course, savory foods, anything that is really fatty, salty, savory, those don't last long in my presence, but-
当然，咸味食物，任何真正油腻、咸味、咸味的食物，在我面前都不会长久，但是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
salty, savory, those don't last long in my presence.
咸的、咸的，这些在我面前都不会持续太久。
But I always say I don't really like sweet things so much.
但我总是说我不太喜欢甜的东西。
I like sweet people, but I don't tend to like sweet foods, which is true.
我喜欢甜的人，但我不太喜欢甜的食物，这是事实。
But there's probably one exception, and that's mangoes.
但可能有一个例外，那就是芒果。
And it turns out that mangoes have the highest percentage of sugar in them, in particular fructose as well as other forms of sugars.
事实证明，芒果中的糖含量最高，特别是果糖以及其他形式的糖。
So what I do, because I love mangoes so much, is I will have mangoes probably twice a week, but I'll have them after some sort of resistance training or hard run or something like that, because it is the case that after you exercise hard, in particular exercise that is of the high-intensity variety, that your body is more efficient at using, circulating blood sugar.
因为我非常喜欢芒果，所以我会每周吃两次芒果，但我会在某种阻力训练或艰苦跑步或类似的事情之后吃芒果，因为在你剧烈运动后，特别是高强度的运动后，你的身体会更有效地利用、循环血糖。
It's able to store that or use that for fuel.
它能够储存它或将其用作燃料。
And so, what I'll typically do is just take the mango.
所以，我通常会做的就是吃芒果。
I actually eat the peels too.
其实我也吃皮。
I know that probably some people are going to cringe when they hear that.
我知道有些人听到这个消息时可能会感到畏缩。
I find them delicious, so I'll just bite into those things like apples.
我觉得它们很好吃，所以我就咬苹果之类的东西。
I don't eat the pits, however.
不过我不吃坑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So now I want to take us on a journey into the nervous system to explain the pathways in the brain and body that regulate our appetite for sugar.
所以现在我想带我们进入神经系统，解释大脑和身体中调节我们对糖的食欲的通路。
Now, keep in mind what I already told you before, which is that when we ingest foods, they're broken down into various components.
现在，请记住我之前已经告诉过您的内容，即当我们摄入食物时，它们会分解成各种成分。
And glucose is going to be shuttled to the brain and, of course, to other neurons in our spinal cord and elsewhere and to our muscles, et cetera in order for all of those cells and organs and tissues to be able to function.
葡萄糖将被输送到大脑，当然，还有我们脊髓和其他地方的其他神经元以及我们的肌肉等等，以便所有这些细胞、器官和组织能够发挥作用。
The fact that so many cells and organs and tissues require glucose in order to function has led to a situation where you have dedicated neural machinery, pieces of your brain, that are almost entirely, if not entirely, devoted to seeking out of sugar or foods that contain sugars and to make sure that you not only seek those out, but you know where those foods are and that you ingest more and more and more of them.
事实上，如此多的细胞、器官和组织需要葡萄糖才能发挥作用，这一事实导致了这样一种情况：你有专门的神经机制，你的大脑的各个部分，它们几乎完全（如果不是完全的话）致力于寻找糖或含糖食物，并确保你不仅找到这些食物，而且知道这些食物在哪里，并且你摄入越来越多的食物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there are two main ways that these neural circuits work.
这些神经回路有两种主要的工作方式。
In fact, we can say that there are two neural circuits entirely that work in parallel.
事实上，我们可以说有两个完全并行工作的神经回路。
And this is a common theme throughout the nervous system, and that's parallel pathways.
这是整个神经系统的一个共同主题，那就是平行通路。
Parallel pathways are the ways that you can distinguish light from dark.
平行路径是区分光与暗的方法。
Parallel pathways are the ways that you can distinguish high-pitch sounds from low-pitch sounds.
平行路径是区分高音和低音的方法。
Parallel pathways are the ways that you can flex your muscles versus extend your muscles.
平行路径是锻炼肌肉和伸展肌肉的方式。
For instance, if you move your wrist closer to your shoulder, you're flexing your bicep, and you're actually inhibiting, you're actually preventing the action of your tricep.
例如，如果你将手腕移近肩膀，你就在弯曲你的二头肌，你实际上是在抑制，你实际上是在阻止你的三头肌的动作。
If you move your wrist away from your shoulder, you are essentially using your extensor, your tricep, and you're inhibiting the activity of your bicep.
如果你将手腕从肩膀上移开，你实际上是在使用伸肌、三头肌，并且抑制了二头肌的活动。
So for every function in your body that you might think is controlled by one brain area or one neural circuit, almost always there are two or more so-called parallel pathways that ensure that that particular behavior happens.
因此，对于您可能认为是由一个大脑区域或一个神经回路控制的身体中的每一项功能来说，几乎总是有两个或多个所谓的并行路径来确保特定行为的发生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now in the case of sugar consumption, the two parallel pathways involve one pathway related to the actual taste and the perception of sweet taste that lead not just you, but every animal that we're aware of to seek more sweet-containing foods.
现在就糖消耗而言，这两条平行途径涉及一条与实际味道和甜味感知相关的途径，它不仅会导致您，而且会导致我们所知道的每一种动物寻求更多含糖食物。
The other parallel pathway is related to the nutritive component of sweet foods, meaning the degree to which a given food will raise blood glucose.
另一条平行途径与甜食的营养成分有关，即某种食物升高血糖的程度。
I want to repeat that.
我想重复一遍。
One pathway in your brain and body is devoted to getting you to seek out sweet-tasting things that you perceive as sweet.
你的大脑和身体中的一条通路致力于让你寻找你认为是甜的东西。
And another parallel pathway is devoted to getting you to seek out foods that lead to increases in blood glucose.
另一条平行途径致力于让您寻找导致血糖升高的食物。
It just so happens that the foods that lead to big increases in blood glucose typically are associated with that sweet taste.
碰巧的是，导致血糖大幅升高的食物通常与甜味有关。
Now, this is distinctly different than the neural pathways that control seeking of savory foods or salty foods or spicy foods, for that matter, or bitter foods.
现在，这与控制寻找咸味食物、咸味食物、辛辣食物或苦味食物的神经通路明显不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The sweet pathway is what we would call hardwired.
甜蜜的途径就是我们所说的“硬连线”。
It exists, as far as we know, in every mammal.
据我们所知，它存在于每一种哺乳动物中。
It even exists in fruit flies, hence fruit fly.
它甚至存在于果蝇中，因此称为果蝇。
Basically getting sweet stuff into the body might seem like it has a lot to do with the taste, but it has just as much to do with the nutritive components that sweet-tasting foods carry and the fact that your nervous system and so many cells in your brain and body run on glucose.
基本上，甜食进入体内似乎与味道有很大关系，但它与甜味食物所携带的营养成分以及您的神经系统以及大脑和身体中的许多细胞依赖葡萄糖这一事实也有很大关系。
If you recall, earlier I said even if you ingest fructose, fructose can be converted into glucose in the liver.
如果你还记得的话，我之前说过，即使你摄入果糖，果糖也可以在肝脏中转化为葡萄糖。
And I mentioned, of course, that fructose may actually work directly on the brain.
当然，我提到果糖实际上可能直接作用于大脑。
That's still unclear for humans.
这对人类来说仍然不清楚。
The jury's still out on that.
陪审团对此还没有定论。
We will see.
我们会看到。
But the fundamental thing to understand here is that when you think you want a piece of chocolate, or you think you want a piece of cake, or you're craving something sweet, you are both craving the taste and your neurons are literally craving the nutritive components that arrive with that taste.
但这里要理解的基本一点是，当你认为你想要一块巧克力，或者你认为你想要一块蛋糕，或者你想吃一些甜的东西时，你都在渴望这种味道，而你的神经元实际上也在渴望伴随这种味道而来的营养成分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And simply by understanding that can allow you to circumvent some of the sugar cravings that you might otherwise be a complete hopeless victim to.
只需了解这一点，就可以让您避免对糖的某些渴望，否则您可能会成为完全绝望的受害者。
Also in this episode, I will talk about ways that you can sort of undermine or short-circuit these circuits, if you will, in order to reduce sugar cravings on a regular basis, if that's your goal.
同样在这一集中，我将讨论一些方法，如果你愿意的话，你可以破坏或短路这些电路，以便定期减少对糖的渴望，如果这是你的目标的话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, two parallel pathways.
好吧，两条平行的道路。
One of the parallel pathways has to do with conscious perception.
并行途径之一与意识感知有关。
So animals of all kinds, mice, rats, and humans, will prefer sugary taste to nonsugary taste.
因此，各种动物，小鼠、大鼠和人类，都会更喜欢含糖的味道而不是不含糖的味道。
When we eat something that tastes sweet, we register that sweet taste by way of sweet receptors, literally little ports or portals of neurons on our tongue and on our palette.
当我们吃甜味的东西时，我们会通过甜味受体（实际上是舌头和调色板上神经元的小端口或门户）记录甜味。
A lot of people don't realize this, but there are a lot of taste receptors on the soft palette and around the mouth, on the sides of the mouth.
很多人没有意识到这一点，但在柔软的调色板和嘴巴周围、嘴巴两侧有很多味觉感受器。
So you're actually tasting things not just with your tongue, but with your entire mouth and your palette.
所以你实际上不仅仅是用舌头来品尝东西，而是用整个嘴巴和调色板来品尝。
So when you ingest something sweet very quickly, there are signals sent from those neurons in your mouth to brain areas that cause you to seek out, or at least pay attention to the source and the abundance of those sweet things.
因此，当您快速摄入甜食时，口腔中的神经元会向大脑区域发送信号，促使您寻找或至少注意这些甜食的来源和丰富程度。
They literally change your perception.
他们确实改变了你的看法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In fact, there are beautiful imaging studies that show that when people ingest a sugary drink, their perception of images of foods change very much to make those foods appear more appetizing, and not just foods that contain sugar.
事实上，一些出色的成像研究表明，当人们摄入含糖饮料时，他们对食物图像的感知会发生很大变化，使这些食物看起来更开胃，而不仅仅是含糖食物。
Results of those studies do show that there's an increase, for instance, in the perception of detail and images of ice cream after you ingest a sweet drink or even put a hard candy into your mouth.
这些研究的结果确实表明，例如，在摄入甜饮料甚至将硬糖放入口中后，对冰淇淋的细节和图像的感知会有所增加。
It will make you seek out sugary things more.
它会让你更多地寻找含糖的东西。
It will make sugary things look more appetizing, but also other foods more appetizing.
它会让含糖的食物看起来更开胃，也会让其他食物看起来更开胃。
So I think it's important that people recognize that fact, that when you have a sweet taste in your mouth, or when you've tasted something sweet within your mouth, I should say, your perception of food has immediately shifted.
所以我认为人们认识到这样一个事实很重要：当你嘴里有甜味，或者当你在嘴里尝到甜的东西时，我应该说，你对食物的看法立即发生了转变。
These are fast neural pathways.
这些是快速神经通路。
Then we'll get into some of the brain structures in a moment, but these are fast neural pathways that shift your entire self toward seeking more sugary stuff and more food generally.
然后我们稍后会介绍一些大脑结构，但这些是快速的神经通路，它们通常会使您的整个自我转向寻找更多含糖物质和更多食物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, does that mean that you should never ingest anything sweet?
那么，这是否意味着您永远不应该摄入任何甜食？
No, certainly I'm not saying that.
不，我当然不是这么说的。
Everyone has to decide for themselves what the appropriate amount of sugar intake is.
每个人都必须自己决定适当的糖摄入量。
But I find it remarkable when people say, "Oh, I need to get my sugar fix," or, "I need to have my chocolate," or, "I need to have a little bit of something," to just kind of take care of that sugar appetite, because in taking care of that sugar appetite — maybe for the very disciplined of you, you can just have that one piece of chocolate and it's great and you can relish in it — but it does shift the way that you perceive other foods as well.
但当人们说“哦，我需要解决我的糖分问题”，或者“我需要吃巧克力”，或者“我需要吃一点东西”来照顾糖的胃口时，我发现这很值得注意，因为在照顾糖的胃口时——也许对于你来说，你可以只吃一块巧克力，它很棒，你可以享受它——但它也确实改变了你看待其他食物的方式。
And the way it does that is through our, probably if you're a listener to this podcast now, old friend but incredible neuromodulator, dopamine.
它的实现方式是通过我们的，如果你现在是这个播客的听众，老朋友，但令人难以置信的神经调节剂，多巴胺。
Dopamine is a molecule that is released from several places in the brain.
多巴胺是一种从大脑多个部位释放的分子。
There's a so-called mesolimbic reward pathway, which is a whole set of places in the brain or circuits designed to get us motivated and craving and in pursuit of things.
有一条所谓的中边缘奖励通路，它是大脑或电路中的一整套位置，旨在让我们有动力、渴望和追求事物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then of course, there are areas of the brain that are involved in movement that are linked up with those areas involved in motivation.
当然，大脑中涉及运动的区域与涉及动机的区域是相关的。
That makes perfect sense.
这是完全有道理的。
Why would you have a brain area involved in motivation if you couldn't actually do something with that motivation?
如果你实际上不能用这种动机做某事，为什么你的大脑区域会涉及动机呢？
So the way that your brain is designed is when there's an increase in dopamine in the mesolimbic reward pathway, there are signals sent to an area of the brain called the striatum.
因此，大脑的设计方式是，当中脑边缘奖励通路中的多巴胺增加时，就会向大脑中称为纹状体的区域发送信号。
We're going to spend a little bit of time today in the striatum.
今天我们将花一点时间讨论纹状体。
It's got a dorsal part, meaning an upper part, and a ventral part, which means a lower part.
它有一个背侧部分，即上部，和一个腹侧部分，即下部。
And the dopamine sent to those areas places us into modes of action to pursue particular things.
发送到这些区域的多巴胺使我们进入追求特定事物的行动模式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sugar, or sweet tastes, I should say to be more specific, have an incredibly potent ability to activate dopamine release within the mesolimbic reward pathway.
我应该更具体地说，糖或甜味具有令人难以置信的强大能力，可以激活中脑边缘奖励通路内的多巴胺释放。
This has been shown over and over and over again in animal models and in humans.
这已经在动物模型和人类身上一次又一次地得到证明。
This is especially true, I should mention, through the ingestion of sweet liquids.
我应该提到，通过摄入甜味液体尤其如此。
Now this becomes a very important point to us a little later on, when we talk about the proliferation of sodas and sweet drinks, and dare I even say nonsugar, or diet sodas.
现在，当我们稍后谈论苏打水和甜饮料的扩散时，这对我们来说变得非常重要，我什至敢说无糖或无糖苏打水。
We're going to get into that a little bit later, perhaps one of the most third-rail topics in nutrition.
我们稍后会讨论这个问题，这也许是营养学中最常见的话题之一。
But when we ingest something sweet, the perception of that sweet taste increases dopamine in the mesolimbic reward pathways, which then are conveyed to pathways for motor behavior, and in general place us into modes of focused action toward getting more of whatever with sweet.
但是，当我们摄入甜食时，对甜味的感知会增加中脑边缘奖励通路中的多巴胺，然后将其传递到运动行为通路，并通常使我们进入集中行动模式，以获取更多甜食。
Again, for those of you that are very disciplined, you can probably eat that one piece of chocolate and be just fine.
再说一次，对于那些非常自律的人来说，吃一块巧克力也许就可以了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But if you understand the way that dopamine works, what you'll realize is that when this dopamine pathway is triggered, it tends to create not the sensation or the perception of satiety, of feeling like something is enough, but rather to produce the sensation of wanting more.
但如果你了解多巴胺的工作方式，你就会意识到，当多巴胺通路被触发时，它往往不会产生饱腹感或饱腹感，感觉某样东西就足够了，而是产生想要更多的感觉。
As described in the episode that I hosted with my phenomenal colleague from Stanford School of Medicine, Dr. Anna Lembke; she's an expert on addiction and dopamine pathways.
正如我与斯坦福大学医学院的杰出同事 Anna Lembke 博士主持的那一集所描述的那样；她是成瘾和多巴胺通路方面的专家。
The dopamine circuits of the brain have what we call a pleasure-pain balance.
大脑的多巴胺回路具有我们所说的快乐与痛苦的平衡。
And there I'm paraphrasing what Dr. Anna Lembke has said and has written about in her beautiful book, "Dopamine Nation." If you haven't read that book, I highly recommend it.
我在这里解释一下安娜·伦布克博士在她美丽的著作《多巴胺国家》中所说和所写的内容。如果你还没有读过那本书，我强烈推荐它。
Whether or not you have issues with addiction or you know people that do, or you don't, it's an incredibly important read, especially if you're interested in understanding motivated behaviors and ways to channel your behaviors in life toward healthy motivated behaviors and make sure that you avoid some of the common pitfalls that people fall into, not just addiction, but things like overuse of social media or wasting time in general.
无论你是否有成瘾问题，或者你认识的人有或没有，这都是一本非常重要的读物，特别是如果你有兴趣了解动机行为，以及如何将你的生活行为引导到健康的动机行为，并确保避免人们容易陷入的一些常见陷阱，不仅仅是成瘾，还有过度使用社交媒体或浪费时间之类的事情。
It's a phenomenal book.
这是一本非凡的书。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In that book, and of course within research articles, you will find evidence of this so-called pleasure-pain balance that exists within our dopamine circuits.
在那本书中，当然还有研究文章中，您会发现我们的多巴胺回路中存在的所谓快乐与痛苦平衡的证据。
Nobody has dopamine circuits that allow them to escape this pleasure-pain balance.
没有人拥有能让他们摆脱这种快乐与痛苦平衡的多巴胺回路。
And the way this works is that anytime that we engage in a behavior or we ingest something that increases our levels of dopamine, there is a subsequent increase in the neural circuits that control our sense of frustration, pain, and lack.
其原理是，每当我们做出某种行为或摄入某种会增加多巴胺水平的东西时，控制我们的挫败感、痛苦感和匮乏感的神经回路就会随之增加。
And you can actually notice this phenomenon.
你实际上可以注意到这种现象。
If, for instance, you're somebody who really likes chocolate or you really like something else, pay attention to the way that you experience indulging in that thing.
例如，如果你真的很喜欢巧克力或者你真的很喜欢其他东西，请注意你沉迷于该东西的方式。
If you eat that piece of chocolate, and you really focus on savoring its amazing taste, you'll notice that it provides some quenching of your desire for, let's say, sweet stuff or chocolate, or both.
如果你吃那块巧克力，并且你真的专注于品尝它令人惊叹的味道，你会发现它在一定程度上满足了你对甜食或巧克力或两者的渴望。
But right as you stop experiencing that, right as that chocolate intake tapers off, as you swallow it down your throat, or you just pause for a second afterwards, what you'll notice is that your brain and body actually orient toward wanting more.
但当你停止经历这种情况时，当巧克力的摄入量逐渐减少时，当你把它咽到喉咙里时，或者稍后你只是暂停一秒钟时，你会注意到你的大脑和身体实际上倾向于想要更多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that wanting of more is really the action of the neural circuits that underlie pain and are pushing your dopamine levels back down.
这种想要更多的感觉实际上是神经回路的行为，而神经回路正是疼痛的根源，并且正在使多巴胺水平回落。
And when these circuits go awry, or, I should say, when people fail to control themselves within the context of that pleasure-pain balance, the typical behavior is to reach for yet another chocolate or to then look for something that will quench that desire and get dopamine levels back up.
当这些回路出现问题时，或者，我应该说，当人们无法在快乐与痛苦的平衡中控制自己时，典型的行为是再去拿一块巧克力，或者然后寻找一些可以抑制这种欲望并恢复多巴胺水平的东西。
Now, the way these pleasure-pain circuits work is very diabolical, because it turns out that were you to take another piece of chocolate, yes, your dopamine levels would go back up, but not to the same extent that they did the first bite of chocolate that you had.
现在，这些快乐-疼痛回路的工作方式非常邪恶，因为事实证明，如果你再吃一块巧克力，是的，你的多巴胺水平会回升，但不会达到你吃第一口巧克力时的水平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In fact, we can say that the longer it's been since you've indulged in something that you really enjoy or would like, the greater the dopamine you will experience when you finally engage in that behavior or indulge that thing, ingest that thing.
事实上，我们可以说，你沉迷于你真正喜欢或想要的东西的时间越长，当你最终从事那种行为或沉迷于那种东西、摄入那种东西时，你体验到的多巴胺就越多。
And the greater the dopamine increase, the greater the subsequent action of those pain circuits.
多巴胺增加得越多，这些疼痛回路的后续作用就越大。
So this puts you on a very complicated seesaw.
所以这会让你陷入一个非常复杂的跷跷板之中。
It's a very wobbly, precarious state to be in, which is not to say you shouldn't have a piece of chocolate.
这是一种非常不稳定、不稳定的状态，但这并不是说你不应该吃一块巧克力。
It's just to say that the sweet taste of sweet things, in particular things that we crave very much and we wait and wait and wait and then we allow ourselves to indulge, those trigger changes in our neurochemistry, in our neural circuits that place us in a very vulnerable place to either want more and more of that thing or to seek out other ways to fill that kind of emptiness that we feel or that gap, like, "Oh, I would love more, but I'm not going to allow myself more."
只是说，甜食的甜味，特别是我们非常渴望的东西，我们等啊等啊等，然后让自己沉迷，这些会触发我们的神经化学和神经回路的变化，使我们处于一个非常脆弱的位置，要么想要越来越多的东西，要么寻找其他方法来填补我们感受到的那种空虚或那种差距，比如，“哦，我会爱更多，但我不会让自己更多。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't pursue pleasurable things.
再说一遍，我并不是说你不应该追求快乐的事情。
I mean this molecule dopamine exists for a reason.
我的意思是，多巴胺分子的存在是有原因的。
Frankly, because of its involvement in sex and reproduction, it's the reason we're all here in the first place, because last time I checked, the only way any of us got here was, one way or another, sperm met egg and there was conception.
坦率地说，由于它参与性和生殖，这就是我们来到这里的首要原因，因为上次我检查过，我们任何人到达这里的唯一方式是，不管怎样，精子遇到卵子，然后受孕。
I still believe there are no exceptions to that, that I'm aware of anyways.
我仍然相信，无论如何，我都知道，没有例外。
That is a process, or I should say the events leading up to that process typically involve dopamine in one way or another.
这是一个过程，或者我应该说导致该过程的事件通常以某种方式涉及多巴胺。
There are exceptions to that too, but you get the idea.
也有例外，但你明白了。
These dopamine pathways are not evil.
这些多巴胺通路并不是邪恶的。
They're not bad.
他们还不错。
But once you understand the way they work, you can leverage them to your advantage, as opposed to them leveraging you to their advantage.
但一旦你了解了他们的工作方式，你就可以利用他们来发挥你的优势，而不是让他们利用你来发挥他们的优势。
Okay, so when you ingest something sweet, you perceive that sweet taste, and a cascade ensues within your brain that makes you want more of the sweet thing.
好吧，所以当你摄入甜食时，你会感觉到甜味，大脑中就会产生连锁反应，让你想要更多甜食。
That's the conscious pathway for sugar perception, for sweet perception.
这是糖感知、甜味感知的意识途径。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now there's the second pathway.
现在有第二条路了。
The second pathway is what's called the postingestive reinforcing properties of sugar, which is really just a fancy nerd-speak way of saying there are events that happen within your stomach and below your conscious detection that are also driving you to seek out sweet-tasting things, independent of their taste, and foods that increase blood glucose, independent of their taste.
第二条途径是所谓的糖的食后强化特性，这实际上只是一种奇特的书呆子用语，表示在你的胃内发生的、在你意识不到的情况下发生的事件也会驱使你去寻找甜味的东西，无论它们的味道如何，以及会增加血糖的食物，无论它们的味道如何。
In order to illustrate the immense power of these subconscious circuits for sugar seeking, I'd like to describe an experiment.
为了说明这些寻找糖的潜意识回路的巨大力量，我想描述一个实验。
And this is just one experiment of many, of dozens or more experiments done in animal models and humans, which essentially illustrate the same thing.
这只是在动物模型和人类身上进行的许多、数十个或更多实验中的一个，这些实验本质上说明了同一件事。
And as I describe this experiment, I think you will come to understand the power of these circuits.
当我描述这个实验时，我想您将会了解这些电路的威力。
I'll provide a link to this study in the caption.
我将在标题中提供这项研究的链接。
The first author is Freeman.
第一作者是弗里曼。
The paper was published in Frontiers in Bioscience, but there have been others, papers in Nature Neuroscience, papers in Neurons, Cell Press journals, et cetera, many, many journals, many, many papers.
这篇论文发表在《生物科学前沿》上，但也有其他论文，《自然神经科学》上的论文，《神经元》上的论文，《细胞出版社》期刊等等，很多很多期刊，很多很多论文。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If subjects are given the choice of drinking plain water or a sweet-tasting fluid, their preference for the sweet-tasting fluid is much, much higher.
如果让受试者选择饮用白水或甜味液体，他们对甜味液体的偏好会高得多。
Sweet things taste better than plain water, at least for most people and certainly for animals.
甜食比白水味道更好，至少对大多数人来说，当然对动物来说也是如此。
Now, if for instance, you take an animal which completely lacks sweet receptors, and you can do this through some molecular genetic tools and gymnastics in the laboratory.
现在，例如，如果你选择一种完全缺乏甜味受体的动物，你可以通过实验室中的一些分子遗传工具和体操来做到这一点。
We call these knockout mice, where you can knock out a particular receptor for sweet taste.
我们将这些小鼠称为基因敲除小鼠，您可以在其中敲除特定的甜味受体。
You can confirm that there's no perception of sweet things, or at least no preference for sweet things in those animals.
您可以确认这些动物对甜食没有感知，或者至少对甜食没有偏好。
In humans, you can numb the mouth.
对于人类来说，你可以麻木嘴巴。
There are other pharmacologic ways that you can eliminate sweet receptors in the mouth.
还有其他药理学方法可以消除口腔中的甜味受体。
And by doing that, people will tell you, "No, I can't taste anything sweet." You could give them ice cream, you could give them pure sucrose, you could give them table sugar, and they wouldn't be able to perceive it as sweet.
通过这样做，人们会告诉你，“不，我尝不到任何甜的东西。”你可以给他们冰淇淋，你可以给他们纯蔗糖，你可以给他们食糖，他们不会觉得它是甜的。
If you eliminate the perception of sweet taste in the mouth, and you offer people or laboratory animals water versus some sugar-containing solution, you eliminate the preference for the sugary solution, which tells us that the perception of sweet is important for the preference for sweet-tasting drink.
如果你消除了口腔中对甜味的感知，并为人们或实验动物提供水和一些含糖溶液，你就消除了对含糖溶液的偏好，这告诉我们，甜味感知对于甜味饮料的偏好很重要。
This is also true for sweet-tasting foods, I should mention.
我应该提一下，对于甜味食品来说也是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
However, in both animal models and in humans, after about 15 minutes, subjects start preferring the sugary water, even though they can't taste that it is sweeter.
然而，在动物模型和人类中，大约 15 分钟后，受试者开始更喜欢含糖水，尽管他们尝不出它更甜。
Okay?
好的？
So to repeat that, if you eliminate the ability to sense sweet, to perceive sweetness in foods, then you eliminate the preference for sweet beverages or sweet foods, so that's not surprising.
所以重复一遍，如果你消除了感知甜味、感知食物中甜味的能力，那么你就消除了对甜饮料或甜食物的偏好，所以这并不奇怪。
But if you wait about 15 minutes, the preference for the sweet beverage or the sweet food comes back.
但如果你等待大约 15 分钟，对甜饮料或甜食物的偏好就会恢复。
Now, that doesn't mean that they can perceive the sweetness.
现在，这并不意味着他们能够感受到甜味。
In fact, the way these experiments are done is very clever.
事实上，这些实验的完成方式非常巧妙。
You offer people various cups of different things or different food items, and then you just look at what they eat more of or what they prefer to eat more of.
你为人们提供不同的杯子，不同的东西或不同的食物，然后你只看他们吃更多的东西或他们更喜欢吃更多的东西。
So this experiment is so crucial, because what it says is that the preference for sugar-containing foods is in part due to the sweetness of those foods, but in part due to something else.
所以这个实验非常重要，因为它表明人们对含糖食物的偏好部分是由于这些食物的甜味，但部分是由于其他原因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this something else is what we call the postingestive effect.
这就是我们所说的“后食效应”。
And as I mentioned before, it took about 15 minutes.
正如我之前提到的，大约需要 15 分钟。
And you've actually experienced this, whether you realize it or not.
无论你是否意识到，你实际上都经历过这一点。
This phenomenon of postingestive rewarding properties of sweet foods, meaning what happens in your body when you ingest something that increases your blood glucose very much, has no doubt controlled you from the inside below your awareness.
甜食的这种食后奖励特性的现象，意味着当你摄入一些会大大增加你的血糖的东西时，你的身体会发生什么，毫无疑问从你意识不到的内部控制了你。
This was happening to you and you didn't realize it.
这件事发生在你身上，而你却没有意识到。
And here's how it works.
这是它的工作原理。
We all have neurons within our gut.
我们的肠道内都有神经元。
These neurons have a name.
这些神经元有一个名字。
They are called neuropod cells.
它们被称为神经足细胞。
Neuropod cells were famously discovered by professor Dr. Diego Bohórquez at Duke University.
众所周知，神经足细胞是由杜克大学教授迭戈·博霍尔克斯 (Diego Bohórquez) 博士发现的。
And these cells respond to, among other things, to the presence of sugar within the gut.
这些细胞对肠道内糖的存在等做出反应。
So when we ingest a sugary food or drink, or we ingest a food or drink that simply contains fructose, sucrose, glucose or some other form of sugar that later through metabolism will be converted into glucose, the neuropod cells are able to register the presence of those sweet or glucose-stimulating foods and in response to that, send electrical signals, because electrical signals are the way neurons communicate up to the brain via the so-called vagus nerve, the vagus nerve of course, being a nerve pathway famous for its role in relaxation.
因此，当我们摄入含糖食物或饮料，或者只含有果糖、蔗糖、葡萄糖或其他形式的糖（随后通过新陈代谢将其转化为葡萄糖）的食物或饮料时，神经足细胞能够记录这些甜味或刺激葡萄糖的食物的存在，并对此做出反应，发送电信号，因为电信号是神经元通过所谓的迷走神经与大脑进行交流的方式，迷走神经当然是一种以神经通路闻名的神经通路。它在放松中的作用。
That's kind of the assumption out there, that it's always involved in relaxation.
这是一种假设，它总是与放松有关。
That's not the case.
事实并非如此。
It's involved in a lot of things besides relaxation.
除了放松之外，它还涉及很多事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But nonetheless, these neuropod cells send electrical signals through a particular highway within the vagus to the so-called nodose ganglion.
但尽管如此，这些神经足细胞通过迷走神经内的特定高速公路向所谓的结状神经节发送电信号。
And this is a cluster, a ganglion's just a cluster of neurons.
这是一个神经节，一个神经节只是一个神经元簇。
And then the nodose ganglion sends on information to the nucleus of the solitary tract.
然后结状神经节将信息发送到孤束核。
The nucleus of the solitary tract is an area of the brain that we are going to talk about extensively today.
孤束核是我们今天要广泛讨论的大脑区域。
It's very important for understanding sugar preference.
这对于了解糖的偏好非常重要。
These neuropod cells also trigger activation of dopamine pathways within the mesolimbic reward pathway.
这些神经足细胞还会触发中脑边缘奖励通路内多巴胺通路的激活。
In other words, there are signals conveyed from the gut, meaning stomach and intestines, to the brain anytime we ingest sweet foods, but it has nothing to do with our perception of them being sweet.
换句话说，每当我们摄入甜食时，都会从肠道（即胃和肠）向大脑传递信号，但这与我们对甜食的感知无关。
It has everything to do with the fact that sweetness of foods is almost always correlated with an ability to increase blood glucose.
这与以下事实有关：食物的甜味几乎总是与增加血糖的能力相关。
And the net effect of this is a parallel pathway by which dopamine is increased further.
其最终效果是多巴胺进一步增加的平行途径。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, the experiment that I described before of animals or humans ingesting something that contains sugar, but not being able to perceive its sweetness, and yet after a period of time still preferring that food or drink to non-sugar-containing food or drinks, even though they can't distinguish their taste, is dependent on these neuropod cells and related pathways.
现在，我之前描述的实验是动物或人类摄入含糖的东西，但无法感知其甜味，但在一段时间后，即使他们无法区分其味道，仍然更喜欢该食物或饮料而不是不含糖的食物或饮料，这取决于这些神经足细胞和相关通路。
What this means for you is that anytime you eat something sweet, that substance is actually causing your gut, your stomach and your intestine ...
这对您来说意味着，每当您吃甜食时，该物质实际上都会导致您的肠道、胃和肠道......
To be more precise, I should say that food substance is causing the neuropod cells in your stomach and intestines to send a parallel set of signals up to your brain saying, "Eat more of that," or simply, "Eat more, eat more, eat more, and preferably eat more sweet foods."
更准确地说，我应该说食物物质会导致胃和肠道中的神经足细胞向您的大脑发送一组并行信号，说“多吃点”，或者简单地说，“多吃点，多吃点，多吃点，最好多吃甜食。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we've all heard of hidden sugars, meaning the sugars that manufacturers have put into foods and disguised them with other flavors.
我们都听说过隐藏糖，即制造商添加到食品中并用其他口味伪装的糖。
I talked about this in the episode on salt.
我在关于盐的一集中谈到了这一点。
Using salt to mask the taste of sweetness so that people ingest more sugar.
用盐来掩盖甜味，使人们摄入更多的糖。
That is not an accident that hidden sugars are often hidden with salt or with other flavors.
隐藏的糖通常隐藏在盐或其他香料中，这并非偶然。
It's done so that people, meaning you or me, will want to ingest more of a particular food independent of how sweet that food tastes.
这样做是为了让人们（指的是你或我）想要摄入更多特定的食物，而不管食物的味道有多甜。
And in fact, some crackers, for instance — chips, for instance, you might think, "Oh, well, you know chips, they're not sweet.
事实上，对于一些饼干，例如薯条，你可能会想，“哦，好吧，你知道薯条，它们不甜。
They're salty and savory." And again, I'll mention I love salty, savory foods including certain foods.
它们又咸又香。”再次，我要提到我喜欢咸味的食物，包括某些食物。
I love kettle chips, for instance.
例如，我喜欢水壶薯条。
I try not to walk by them in the grocery store.
在杂货店里我尽量不从他们身边经过。
I usually have to eat one bag while I'm in the store and then another later.
我通常必须在商店里吃一袋，然后再吃另一袋。
The savory foods are often laden with these hidden sugars that we can't register as sweetness, but trigger the neuropod cells, which then further trigger dopamine, which make us want more of them.
咸味食物通常富含这些隐藏的糖，我们无法将其视为甜味，但会触发神经足细胞，然后进一步触发多巴胺，从而使我们想要更多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, we may be able to resist eating more of them, but it makes us crave more food in general.
现在，我们可能无法抗拒吃更多的食物，但这通常会让我们渴望更多的食物。
Now, we will talk about ways to regulate this pathway, to sort of intervene in this subconscious pathway.
现在，我们将讨论调节该途径、干预该潜意识途径的方法。
But for now, I'm hoping that just the understanding that we all have this pathway, this is hardwired into our body, could potentially allow people to better understand why is it that their cravings are so intense, that it's not necessarily just about the taste of that food.
但就目前而言，我希望只要了解我们都有这条通路，它与我们的身体紧密相连，就能让人们更好地理解为什么他们的渴望如此强烈，而这不一定只是与食物的味道有关。
And when you consider this, in concert with the fact that we have this dopamine pain-pleasure balance that I referred to earlier, you start to realize that there are multiple mechanisms hardwired into us that make it especially hard to not eat the sweet thing or to not eat the food that we're craving.
当你考虑到这一点时，再加上我之前提到的多巴胺疼痛与快乐的平衡，你就会开始意识到，我们体内有多种机制，使我们很难不吃甜食或不吃我们渴望的食物。
And indeed, that's the case.
事实确实如此。
We have two major accelerators.
我们有两个主要的加速器。
It's like a car with two accelerators, and we will talk about the brakes, but two ways that really get us into forward motion toward pursuing the consumption of sweet foods.
这就像一辆有两个加速器的汽车，我们将讨论刹车，但有两种方式真正让我们朝着追求甜食消费的方向前进。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, if it doesn't already seem diabolical enough that sweet things that we perceive as sweet make us want to eat more of those because of dopamine, and then send us down this pain-pleasure pathway I mentioned earlier, and the fact that we have this subconscious circuit coming from the neuropod cells in our gut that are registering the presence of sugar or glucose-increasing foods in our gut and sending those signals to the brain for yet more dopamine, pain-pleasure challenges, there's a third layer to this whole thing.
现在，如果我们认为甜的东西因为多巴胺而让我们想吃更多的甜食，然后让我们沿着我之前提到的这条疼痛-愉悦路径走下去，而且事实上，我们有一个来自肠道神经足细胞的潜意识回路，它们记录我们肠道中糖或增加葡萄糖的食物的存在，并将这些信号发送到大脑以应对更多的多巴胺、疼痛-愉悦挑战，如果这看起来还不够邪恶的话，那么还有第三层这整件事。
And that has to do with how sugar is metabolized in the brain, or I should say how glucose is used.
这与大脑中糖的代谢方式有关，或者我应该说葡萄糖的使用方式有关。
Without getting into too much detail, some of the more beautiful studies of neuroimaging and evaluating which brain areas are active when we eat certain foods were done by Dr. Dana Small's lab at Yale University, and in some of her previous work when she was elsewhere, and of course by other laboratories too.
在不涉及太多细节的情况下，耶鲁大学 Dana Small 博士的实验室以及她之前在其他地方的一些工作中完成了一些关于神经影像学和评估我们吃某些食物时哪些大脑区域活跃的更精彩的研究，当然还有其他实验室。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they used an approach called positron emission tomography.
他们使用了一种称为正电子发射断层扫描的方法。
And they and others have used PET scanning, as it's called, positron emission tomography, along with a tool called 2-deoxy glucose.
他们和其他人使用了 PET 扫描（即所谓的正电子发射断层扫描）以及一种名为 2-脱氧葡萄糖的工具。
2-deoxy glucose is actually involved in the procedure of seeing which brain areas are active when people eat foods or engage in other types of behaviors.
2-脱氧葡萄糖实际上参与了观察人们进食或从事其他类型行为时哪些大脑区域活跃的过程。
But the way that 2-deoxy glucose, sometimes shortened 2-DG, the way that it works is to block glucose uptake from neurons and instead bring along with it a marker that one can see through imaging.
但 2-脱氧葡萄糖（有时缩写为 2-DG）的作用方式是阻止神经元摄取葡萄糖，并带来一种可以通过成像看到的标记物。
So in other words, a tool for looking at what parts of the brain are active when eating particular foods, actually prevents foods such as sugar from allowing glucose to get into particular neurons.
换句话说，一种用于观察大脑哪些部分在吃特定食物时活跃的工具实际上可以防止糖等食物让葡萄糖进入特定的神经元。
Now, that might seem like a bad situation.
现在，这似乎是一个糟糕的情况。
You'd say, "Well, wait, you're trying to understand how sugar works in the brain, and then you block the ability for sugar, glucose, to bind to or be used by these neurons because of the thing that you're using for the experiment." Exactly.
你会说，“好吧，等等，你试图了解糖在大脑中是如何工作的，然后你因为实验中使用的东西而阻断了糖、葡萄糖与这些神经元结合或被这些神经元使用的能力。”确切地。
It's a huge problem, but it turns out to be a huge problem that led to a great insight.
这是一个巨大的问题，但事实证明，这个巨大的问题带来了伟大的洞察力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the great insight is this.
伟大的洞察力就是这样。
The preference for sweet-tasting foods and liquids is actually blocked by 2-deoxy glucose.
对甜味食物和液体的偏好实际上被 2-脱氧葡萄糖阻断。
What that means experimentally, but also in terms of what it means for you and me in the real world, is that there's yet a third parallel pathway that's related to the use of blood sugar, the use of glucose by neurons, that further reinforces our desire to eat more sweet things.
这在实验上以及在现实世界中对你我意味着什么，那就是还有第三条平行途径与血糖的使用有关，即神经元对葡萄糖的使用，这进一步增强了我们吃更多甜食的欲望。
And the preference for sweet foods can actually be eliminated through 2-deoxy glucose.
而对甜食的偏爱实际上可以通过2-脱氧葡萄糖来消除。
Now, I definitely don't want people going out and consuming 2-deoxy glucose.
现在，我绝对不希望人们出去消费 2-脱氧葡萄糖。
This is a laboratory tool.
这是一个实验室工具。
It is not something that you should be ingesting.
它不是您应该摄入的东西。
So don't go look it up and try and get some.
因此，不要去查找并尝试获取一些。
There might be other uses for it, but that's not the point.
它可能还有其他用途，但这不是重点。
The point is that it is the sweet taste of sugary foods, it is the signals coming from your gut, from your digestive tract to your brain, and it's the use of the metabolic consequences of sugary foods that are acting as a three-pronged push on your desire to consume more sugary foods.
关键在于，含糖食物的甜味，来自肠道、消化道到大脑的信号，以及利用含糖食物的代谢结果，从三方面推动你摄入更多含糖食物的欲望。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So this car analogy that I used before, where it's some weird car that has two accelerators, it actually has three accelerators.
所以我之前用过这个汽车类比，它是一些奇怪的汽车，有两个加速器，它实际上有三个加速器。
And so with three accelerators all pushing the system hard, we can say, "Wow, there must be something really special about this pathway." And indeed, there is.
因此，随着三个加速器都在努力推动系统，我们可以说，“哇，这条途径一定有一些非常特别的东西。”确实有。
This pathway is the quickest source of fuel for the brain and the rest of the nervous system.
该通路是大脑和神经系统其他部分最快的燃料来源。
It's the preferred source of fuel for the brain and nervous system.
它是大脑和神经系统的首选燃料来源。
And I realize as I say that all the keto-nistas are probably going, "No, actually ketones are the preferred source." Okay, I acknowledge that.
我意识到，当我说所有的酮主义者可能都会说，“不，实际上酮是首选来源。”好吧，我承认这一点。
There are conditions under which you can bring your blood glucose very low, and there are reasons to do that.
在某些情况下，您的血糖可能会非常低，并且有理由这样做。
Actually, ketosis has been a terrifically successful treatment for a lot of forms of epilepsy, in particular pediatric epilepsy.
事实上，酮症对于许多形式的癫痫，特别是小儿癫痫来说，是一种非常成功的治疗方法。
Many people do derive benefit from ketogenic diets, so I'm not knocking ketogenic diets.
许多人确实从生酮饮食中受益，所以我并不是反对生酮饮食。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But if you were to look at what neurons normally prefer, meaning in a typical diet regimen, it would be glucose.
但如果你要看看神经元通常更喜欢什么，也就是说在典型的饮食方案中，它会是葡萄糖。
And the fact that fructose is eventually converted to glucose, the fact that when we ingest sucrose, it's eventually converted into a fuel that neurons can use, that's very much in the glucose pathway.
事实上，果糖最终会转化为葡萄糖，当我们摄入蔗糖时，它最终会转化为神经元可以使用的燃料，这在葡萄糖途径中非常重要。
What you basically arrive at is the fact that your nervous system is a glucose-consuming machine, and you've got at least three pathways of which I've described, that are pushing on your brain consciously and subconsciously to get you to seek and consume more sugar.
你基本上得出的事实是，你的神经系统是一个消耗葡萄糖的机器，并且你至少有我所描述的三种途径，它们有意识地和潜意识地推动你的大脑，让你寻找和消耗更多的糖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, that all sounds like a pretty depressing picture, at least for those of you that are trying to reduce your sugar intake.
现在，这一切听起来像是一幅相当令人沮丧的画面，至少对于那些试图减少糖摄入量的人来说是这样。
And of course, we can all reduce sugar intake by way of sheer will.
当然，我们都可以通过纯粹的意志来减少糖的摄入量。
We cannot have those foods at home.
我们家里不能吃这些食物。
We can restrict ourselves from those.
我们可以限制自己远离这些。
But there are some things that-
但有些事情——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
At home, we can restrict ourselves from those.
在家里，我们可以限制自己不做这些。
But there are some things that we all can and perhaps should do in order to regulate these pathways, such that we don't feel so controlled by them, but rather that we control their output.
但我们都可以而且也许应该做一些事情来调节这些途径，这样我们就不会感觉受到它们的控制，而是我们控制它们的输出。
And of course, they are us and we are them.
当然，他们就是我们，我们就是他们。
So this gets into all sorts of issues of consciousness and free will that I certainly don't want to cover in this episode.
因此，这涉及到各种意识和自由意志的问题，我当然不想在这一集中讨论这些问题。
But nonetheless, I think once you understand that these circuits exist, and you understand that there are simple substitutions and modifications that one can make to their food intake that can work within these pathways and even bypass some of these pathways, you start to realize that you have a lot more control over sugar intake and sugar appetite than you previously thought.
但尽管如此，我认为一旦你了解这些回路的存在，并且了解人们可以对食物摄入量进行简单的替代和修改，这些替代和修改可以在这些途径中发挥作用，甚至绕过其中一些途径，你就会开始意识到，你对糖摄入量和糖食欲的控制比你之前想象的要强得多。
Now many of you have heard of the so-called glycemic index.
现在很多人都听说过所谓的血糖指数。
The glycemic index is a measure of how quickly blood sugar rises after ingesting particular foods.
血糖指数是衡量摄入特定食物后血糖升高速度的指标。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And very broadly speaking, we can say that there are low-glycemic index foods of less than 55, that typically is the measurement; or medium-glycemic index foods, which go from about 55 to 69; and then so-called high-glycemic foods, which are above 70; and of course, there's additional nuance related to glycemic load and many more features of the glycemic index.
从广义上讲，我们可以说存在低于 55（通常是测量值）的低血糖指数食物；或中等血糖指数食物，约为 55 至 69；然后是所谓的高血糖食物，即70以上；当然，还有与血糖负荷和血糖指数的更多特征相关的其他细微差别。
A couple of things to understand about how the glycemic index is measured, and then I'd like to just briefly talk about how the glycemic index can be leveraged to short-circuit some of the neural circuits that would otherwise lead us to crave and perhaps even ingest sugary foods.
关于如何测量血糖指数，需要了解一些事情，然后我想简单谈谈如何利用血糖指数来短路一些神经回路，否则这些神经回路会导致我们渴望甚至摄入含糖食物。
First of all, measurements of glycemic indices of food are typically made by having people ingest those foods in isolation.
首先，食物血糖指数的测量通常是通过让人们单独摄入这些食物来进行的。
And in general, we can say that anytime we ingest fiber and/or fat — lipids — along with a particular food, it will reduce the glycemic index of that particular food, either the absolute level of blood glucose that a particular food causes or the rate at which that elevation in blood to glucose occurs.
一般来说，我们可以说，任何时候我们摄入纤维和/或脂肪（脂质）以及特定食物，都会降低该特定食物的血糖指数，无论是特定食物引起的血糖绝对水平还是血液中葡萄糖升高的速率。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this is why there are some seemingly paradoxical aspects to sweet stuff in terms of glycemic index.
这就是为什么甜食在血糖指数方面存在一些看似矛盾的方面。
For instance, ice cream has a lower glycemic index, provided it's ice cream that includes fat — which I hope it would because that's the good-tasting ice cream, in my opinion — compared to something like mangoes or table sugar, right?
例如，与芒果或食糖之类的东西相比，冰淇淋的血糖指数较低，前提是它是含有脂肪的冰淇淋——我希望它会这样，因为在我看来，那是美味的冰淇淋，对吗？
So the glycemic index is not something to hold wholly in most cases because most people are not ingesting foods in isolation.
因此，在大多数情况下，血糖生成指数并不能完全保持不变，因为大多数人并不是孤立地摄入食物。
And there's actually a lot of argument as to whether or not the glycemic index is really as vital as some people claim.
关于血糖指数是否真的像一些人声称的那么重要，实际上存在很多争论。
There's also the context in which you ingest particular foods.
还有您摄入特定食物的环境。
As I mentioned earlier, after I do hard training of any kind, meaning training that ought to deplete glycogen, so hard resistance training, I actually make it a point to ingest some very sweet high-glycemic foods like a mango.
正如我之前提到的，在我进行任何类型的艰苦训练之后，即应该消耗糖原的训练，因此进行艰苦的阻力训练时，我实际上会特别注意摄入一些非常甜的高血糖食物，例如芒果。
I'll also ingest some starches because I'm trying to replenish glycogen.
我还会摄入一些淀粉，因为我想补充糖原。
I'm also trying to spike my blood sugar a little bit because that can be advantageous in terms of certain strength and hypertrophy protocols, et cetera.
我还尝试稍微提高我的血糖，因为这在某些力量和肥大方案等方面可能是有利的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But most of the time I'm avoiding these high-glycemic foods and high-sugar foods, I should point that out.
但大多数时候我都会避免这些高血糖食物和高糖食物，我应该指出这一点。
Now why am I telling you about the glycemic index?
现在我为什么要告诉你血糖指数？
Well, if we zoom out and take our perspective on all of this discussion about the glycemic index through the lens of the nervous system, and we remind ourselves that neurons prefer glucose for energy and that all sweet things or things that we perceive as sweet, but also sweet things that are ingested and registered by those neuropod cells in our gut, trigger the release of dopamine and trigger these neural circuits to make us want to eat more of these foods, what we start to realize is that a sharp rise in blood glucose or a very high degree of elevation in blood glucose is going to be a much more potent signal than will a more moderate rise in blood glucose or a slower rise in blood glucose.
好吧，如果我们把目光放远，通过神经系统的视角看待所有关于血糖指数的讨论，并提醒自己，神经元更喜欢葡萄糖作为能量，所有甜食或我们认为甜的东西，以及被我们肠道中的神经足细胞摄入和记录的甜食，都会触发多巴胺的释放并触发这些神经回路，使我们想要吃更多这些食物，我们开始意识到血糖急剧升高或血糖升高程度很高与血糖适度升高或血糖升高缓慢相比，“升高”将是一个更有效的信号。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if we think about the analogy of three accelerators, meaning three parallel neural circuits all essentially there to get us to seek out and consume more sweet-tasting and sugary foods, well then the glycemic index is sort of our measurement of how hard we are pushing down or how fast we are pushing down on those three accelerators.
因此，如果我们考虑三个加速器的类比，这意味着三个并行的神经回路本质上都是为了让我们寻找并食用更多甜味和含糖食物，那么血糖指数就是我们对这三个加速器的推动力或速度的衡量标准。
And so for those of you that are trying to reduce sugar intake, and you want to do that through an understanding of how these neural circuits work and you want to short-circuit some of the dopamine release that's caused by ingesting sugary foods, it can be advantageous to ingest sweet foods either alone or in combination with foods that reduce glycemic index or reduce glycemic load.
因此，对于那些试图减少糖摄入量的人来说，如果您想通过了解这些神经回路如何工作来实现这一目标，并且您想缩短因摄入含糖食物而引起的一些多巴胺释放，那么单独摄入甜食或与降低血糖指数或降低血糖负荷的食物结合摄入可能是有利的。
So that might mean making different food choices, so paying attention to sweet-tasting foods that can satisfy sugar cravings but do not have as steep, or I should say do not cause as steep a rise in blood sugar, or it could mean consuming other foods along with sweet foods in order to reduce the glycemic index and thereby slow or blunt the release of dopamine.
因此，这可能意味着做出不同的食物选择，因此要注意可以满足对糖的渴望但不会那么陡峭的甜味食物，或者我应该说不会导致血糖急剧上升，或者这可能意味着与甜食一起食用其他食物以降低血糖指数，从而减缓或减弱多巴胺的释放。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You might think, "Well, why would I want to do that?
你可能会想：“那么，我为什么要这么做呢？
I want the maximum dopamine output in response to a given sweet food.
我想要最大的多巴胺输出来响应给定的甜食。
I don't just want the level 10, I want the level 100 output of dopamine." But you really don't, because of the pleasure-pain balance that dopamine causes, and in fact if we consider some of the nonfood substances that really push hard on these dopamine pathways, we can come up with a somewhat sinister but nonetheless appropriate analogy.
我不只是想要10级，我想要100级的多巴胺输出。”但你真的不知道，因为多巴胺引起的快乐与痛苦的平衡，事实上，如果我们考虑一些真正推动这些多巴胺途径的非食物物质，我们可以想出一个有点险恶但仍然适当的类比。
The drug cocaine causes very robust, potent increases in dopamine within the brain and typically causes people to want to ingest more cocaine because of those sharp increases in dopamine.
可卡因药物会导致大脑内多巴胺的强烈增加，并且由于多巴胺的急剧增加，通常会导致人们想要摄入更多的可卡因。
But within the category of the drug cocaine, there are various modes of ingestion.
但在可卡因毒品的范畴内，有多种摄入方式。
Some people inhale it, some people will inject it intravenously, some people will smoke it, and those different forms of taking cocaine actually impact the dopamine circuits differently.
有些人会吸入它，有些人会静脉注射它，有些人会吸食它，而这些不同形式的服用可卡因实际上对多巴胺回路的影响不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it turns out that crack cocaine, the smokeable form of cocaine rock, increases dopamine to a very high degree but also very, very quickly.
事实证明，强效可卡因（可卡因岩的可抽吸形式）可以在很大程度上增加多巴胺，但速度也非常非常快。
And it is this sharp rise in dopamine over time, not so much the absolute level of dopamine, that makes crack cocaine so absolutely addictive.
正是多巴胺随着时间的推移而急剧上升，而不是多巴胺的绝对水平，才使得强效可卡因如此绝对令人上瘾。
So sometimes you'll hear sugar is like crack.
所以有时你会听到糖就像可卡因。
Well, and that's getting a little extreme because even though I don't think the measurements have been done in the same experiment, I think it's reasonable to think that the absolute level of dopamine caused by ingesting sugar, at least for most people, is not going to be as high as the absolute level of dopamine caused by smoking crack.
好吧，这有点极端，因为尽管我不认为这些测量是在同一个实验中完成的，但我认为有理由认为，摄入糖引起的多巴胺的绝对水平，至少对大多数人来说，不会像吸烟可卡因引起的多巴胺的绝对水平一样高。
Of course, it goes without saying, please don't do cocaine in any form, by the way.
当然，不言而喻，顺便说一句，请不要吸食任何形式的可卡因。
It is appropriate to say that the rate of dopamine increase over time has a profound effect on how people will and if people will go on to want to pursue more of what caused that increase in dopamine.
可以恰当地说，随着时间的推移，多巴胺的增加速度对人们的意愿以及人们是否会继续追求更多导致多巴胺增加的因素产生深远的影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So what I'm basically saying is if you're going to ingest sweet foods in order to satisfy a sweet craving, ingesting sweet foods for which the glycemic index is lower or in which you've adjusted those glycemic index foods through the coingestion of fiber or maybe fat might be beneficial.
所以我基本上想说的是，如果你要摄入甜食来满足对甜食的渴望，那么摄入血糖指数较低的甜食或通过摄入纤维或脂肪来调整血糖指数的食物可能是有益的。
So is this justification for putting peanut butter on that piece of chocolate or for having a bowl of ice cream along with the mango that you're craving?
那么，这就是在巧克力上涂花生酱或者吃一碗冰淇淋和你想吃的芒果的理由吗？
In some sense, yes.
从某种意义上说，是的。
However, there's also the issue of how sweet and how delicious something tastes.
然而，还有一个问题是味道有多甜、有多美味。
Highly palatable foods, absolutely delicious foods, trigger that one neural circuit, that one accelerator that we're talking about in terms of our analogy of three accelerators, and the more delicious something tastes within our mouth, the further increase in dopamine.
非常美味的食物，绝对美味的食物，会触发一种神经回路，一种加速器，我们用三个加速器来比喻，我们嘴里的东西越美味，多巴胺就会进一步增加。
So if you really wanted to adjust your sugar cravings and you really still want to ingest some sugary foods, you probably would better off combining fiber with that sugary or sweet food.
因此，如果您确实想调整对糖的渴望，并且仍然想摄入一些含糖食物，那么您可能最好将纤维与含糖或甜食结合起来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, I do realize that it's somewhat unusual, and you'd probably get some strange stares if you decided to consume broccoli, for instance, along with your chocolate or with another dessert that would otherwise cause a steep increase in blood sugar and has a high glycemic index.
现在，我确实意识到这有点不寻常，例如，如果您决定将西兰花与巧克力或其他甜点一起食用，那么您可能会得到一些奇怪的目光，否则会导致血糖急剧上升并具有较高的血糖指数。
But nonetheless, if your goal is to blunt your sugar cravings, what you really need to do is blunt that dopamine increase.
但尽管如此，如果您的目标是抑制对糖的渴望，那么您真正需要做的就是抑制多巴胺的增加。
So what we're really talking about here is trying to reduce the dopamine signal that is the consequence of ingesting sweet foods, and we're talking about doing that through these different parallel pathways, not just by preventing sweet taste, but also by preventing the postingestive effects of sweet foods.
所以我们在这里真正讨论的是试图减少多巴胺信号，这是摄入甜食的结果，我们讨论的是通过这些不同的平行途径来做到这一点，不仅是通过防止甜味，而且还通过防止甜食的食后效应。
And of course, the backdrop to all of this is that most of us, again, most of us, not all of us, should probably be ingesting fewer refined sugars.
当然，所有这一切的背景是，我们大多数人，我们大多数人，不是所有人，可能应该摄入更少的精制糖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Certainly there are exceptions to that, but I think the bulk of data point to the fact that ingesting these highly palatable, certainly highly palatable, highly processed foods or foods that contain a lot of high-fructose corn syrup can be really deleterious to our health, especially in kids.
当然也有例外，但我认为大量数据表明，摄入这些高度适口、当然高度适口、高度加工的食品或含有大量高果糖玉米糖浆的食品可能对我们的健康有害，尤其是对儿童。
And I'm not going to cite off a bunch of statistics, you've all heard them before, that for hundreds of years we ingested the equivalent of a few cups or pounds of sugar per year, and now people are ingesting hundreds of pounds of sugar per year.
我不会引用一堆统计数据，你们以前都听过，几百年来我们每年摄入相当于几杯或几磅的糖，而现在人们每年摄入数百磅的糖。
The major culprit always seems to be sugary drinks, meaning soft drinks, and I think, indeed, that's the case.
罪魁祸首似乎总是含糖饮料，即软饮料，我认为确实如此。
I do want to point out the incredible work of Dr. Robert Lustig, who is a pediatric endocrinologist at University of California, San Francisco, who is really early in the game of voicing the dangers of so-called hidden sugars and highly processed foods; there are other people, of course, now talking about this.
我确实想指出罗伯特·勒斯蒂格博士所做的令人难以置信的工作，他是旧金山加利福尼亚大学的儿科内分泌学家，他很早就提出了所谓的隐藏糖和高度加工食品的危险；当然，现在还有其他人在谈论这个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
His laboratory has done important work showing, for instance, that if high-fructose corn syrup or even just fructose is replaced with glucose, even if the same number of calories is ingested, that there are important, meaning significant, reductions in type 2 diabetes, some of the metabolic syndromes associated with high-fructose corn syrup, and on and on and on.
例如，他的实验室所做的重要工作表明，如果用葡萄糖代替高果糖玉米糖浆，甚至只是果糖，即使摄入相同数量的卡路里，2型糖尿病、与高果糖玉米糖浆相关的一些代谢综合征等的发病率也会显着降低。
And of course there are other culprits in type 2 diabetes.
当然，2 型糖尿病还有其他罪魁祸首。
There are other factors that are going to lead to obesity, but I think the work from Lustig and others has really illustrated that we should all be trying to reduce our intake of highly refined sugars and high-fructose corn syrup and certainly trying to reduce our intake of very sugary drinks, not just soft drinks, but also fruit juices that contain a lot of sugar.
还有其他因素会导致肥胖，但我认为勒斯蒂格和其他人的工作确实表明，我们都应该努力减少高度精制糖和高果糖玉米糖浆的摄入量，当然还要努力减少高糖饮料的摄入量，不仅是软饮料，还包括含大量糖的果汁。
Now even for people that are of healthy weight and who don't have metabolic syndromes, there may be an additional reason to not want to ingest very sweet foods and highly refined sugars.
现在，即使对于体重健康且没有代谢综合征的人来说，也可能有另一个原因不想摄入非常甜的食物和高度精制的糖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this has to do with a new and emerging area of nutrition neuroscience.
这与营养神经科学的一个新兴领域有关。
And I want to point out that these are new data, right?
我想指出这些都是新数据，对吧？
So it's not a lock, the double-blind placebo-controlled studies in large populations have not been finished, so I want to make sure that that's clear.
所以这不是一个锁定，大量人群的双盲安慰剂对照研究尚未完成，所以我想确保这一点是明确的。
But I also want to make clear what some of the really exciting data coming from Dana Small's lab at Yale and from other laboratories are showing.
但我还想澄清来自耶鲁大学 Dana Small 实验室和其他实验室的一些真正令人兴奋的数据所显示的内容。
And this has to do with what's called conditioned taste preference.
这与所谓的条件性味觉偏好有关。
Using a kind of Pavlovian paradigm.
使用一种巴甫洛夫范式。
What they do is they have people, and these studies were done in people, ingest maltodextrin, which increases blood glucose, doesn't have much flavor, but even if it does have a little bit of subtle flavor, the maltodextrin is cloaked by some other flavor.
他们所做的是他们让人，这些研究是在人们身上进行的，摄入麦芽糖糊精，它会增加血糖，没有太多味道，但即使它确实有一点微妙的味道，麦芽糖糊精也会被其他味道掩盖。
And by cloaking it with that other flavor or pairing it with that other flavor, what they find is that over time — because the maltodextrin increases blood glucose, and they're ingesting a particular flavor along with that maltodextrin — they can then remove the maltodextrin, and the flavor will induce an increase in insulin.
通过将其与其他风味掩盖或与其他风味配对，他们发现随着时间的推移 - 因为麦芽糖糊精会增加血糖，并且他们将特定风味与麦芽糖糊精一起摄入 - 然后他们可以去除麦芽糖糊精，并且风味会导致胰岛素增加。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The increase in insulin, of course, is the consequence of the fact that anytime there's a rise in blood glucose, provided the person isn't diabetic, there's a parallel increase in insulin.
当然，胰岛素的增加是因为只要血糖升高，只要该人没有糖尿病，胰岛素就会相应增加。
Now this is very interesting because what it says is, well at a first pass it says that we are very Pavlovian in terms of our physiological responses to foods, and particular flavors come to be associated with particular patterns of blood glucose increase, and hence patterns of insulin increase, because of course, insulin manages glucose in the bloodstream, as I mentioned earlier.
现在这非常有趣，因为它所说的是，首先它说我们对食物的生理反应非常巴甫洛夫式，特定的味道与血糖增加的特定模式相关，因此胰岛素增加的模式，因为当然，正如我之前提到的，胰岛素控制血液中的葡萄糖。
This also has implications for understanding things like artificial sweeteners, and here I want to highlight that this is still very controversial work, needs more data, but nonetheless, I'd like to share it with you for consideration.
这对于理解人工甜味剂等事物也有影响，在这里我想强调，这仍然是一项非常有争议的工作，需要更多数据，但尽管如此，我还是想与您分享以供考虑。
The Small laboratory has done studies in humans, both in adults and in children, showing that if the flavor of artificial sweeteners is paired with maltodextrin and then the maltodextrin is removed, that the artificial sweetener taste itself can subsequently increase insulin in the bloodstream.
Small 实验室对人类（包括成人和儿童）进行了研究，结果表明，如果将人造甜味剂的味道与麦芽糖糊精搭配，然后去除麦芽糖糊精，那么人造甜味剂的味道本身就会增加血液中的胰岛素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In other words, taking something that increases blood sugar, attaching a flavor experience to that, having children or adults ingest that thing, allows the nervous system to associate that flavor with that increase in blood glucose.
换句话说，服用一些会增加血糖的东西，附加一种味道体验，让儿童或成人摄入这种东西，可以让神经系统将这种味道与血糖的增加联系起来。
But then you can remove the glucose-increasing substance, and the flavor alone will increase insulin because insulin typically follows blood glucose, so this is a conditioning effect.
但随后你可以去除增加葡萄糖的物质，仅靠味道就会增加胰岛素，因为胰岛素通常会跟随血糖变化，所以这是一种调理作用。
Now the reason these data are controversial are severalfold.
这些数据引起争议的原因有几个。
First of all, the landscape around the discussion around artificial sweeteners is definitely what I would call a barbed-wire topic.
首先，围绕人工甜味剂的讨论绝对是我所说的“铁丝网话题”。
And I want to preface what I'm about to say next by saying I actually ingest artificial sweeteners.
我想在接下来要说的话之前说一下，我实际上摄入了人造甜味剂。
I will have the occasional diet soda, not every day, maybe, I don't know, once or twice a month, I don't particularly like the taste, but I'll do it just because it's around and I want some caffeine and I like the carbonation if I'm on a plane or something.
我偶尔会喝无糖苏打水，不是每天，也许，我不知道，每月一次或两次，我不是特别喜欢这种味道，但我会这样做，因为它就在身边，我想要一些咖啡因，而且如果我在飞机上或其他什么地方，我喜欢碳酸化。
I do ingest plant-based noncaloric sweeteners.
我确实摄入植物性无热量甜味剂。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To my knowledge, there have not been high quality studies of plant-based noncaloric sweeteners in the context that I'm referring to here.
据我所知，在我在这里提到的背景下，还没有对植物性无热量甜味剂进行高质量的研究。
Okay?
好的？
Nonetheless, these studies show that particular flavors can be conditioned to cause an insulin increase, and the flavor associated with certain artificial sweeteners is included in that category of flavors that can induce insulin even in the absence of something that can increase blood glucose.
尽管如此，这些研究表明，特定的风味可以调节以引起胰岛素增加，并且与某些人造甜味剂相关的风味包含在即使在没有可以增加血糖的物质的情况下也可以诱导胰岛素的风味类别中。
Now, the simple takeaway from these studies would be the following, and this is actually the one interpretation that Dana Small has offered to her data, but she offers other interpretations as well.
现在，这些研究的简单结论如下，这实际上是 Dana Small 对她的数据提供的一种解释，但她也提供了其他解释。
One of interpretation is that if people are going to ingest artificial sweeteners and they do that along with foods that very sharply increase blood glucose, then there is the potential, highlight, the potential for those same artificial sweeteners to increase insulin even in the absence of food.
一种解释是，如果人们要摄入人工甜味剂，并且与会急剧增加血糖的食物一起摄入，那么即使在没有食物的情况下，这些相同的人工甜味剂也有可能增加胰岛素。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In other words, let's just draw the scenario out in the real world: you're having a diet soda along with a cheeseburger and fries.
换句话说，让我们在现实世界中画出这样的场景：你正在喝无糖汽水、芝士汉堡和薯条。
You do that every day for lunch — okay, somewhat extreme example, but natural world example: you do that every day for lunch, and then you just have a diet soda alone.
你每天午餐时都这样做——好吧，有点极端的例子，但也是自然世界的例子：你每天午餐时都这样做，然后你就只喝一杯无糖汽水。
The extreme interpretation of the data that they've collected says, "Well, that diet soda alone will increase insulin even though there's no increase in blood glucose, because you haven't ingested food with it, because you conditioned that taste of artificial sweetener to the experience of a rise in glucose and, hence, insulin." Now, the counter argument to this would be, "Well, that's a very unusual situation.
他们对所收集数据的极端解释是：“好吧，尽管血糖没有增加，但仅喝无糖汽水就会增加胰岛素，因为你没有同时摄入食物，因为你将人工甜味剂的味道调节到了血糖升高的体验，从而导致了胰岛素的升高。”现在，对此的反驳是：“嗯，这是一个非常不寻常的情况。
Maltodextrin causes big increases in blood glucose, so that's not really a fair experiment, or it's not a natural world experiment."
麦芽糖糊精会导致血糖大幅升高，所以这不是一个真正公平的实验，或者说它不是一个自然世界的实验。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think that's a decent assessment, although I will point out that one of the reasons why this study is so controversial, or why these data are so controversial, is that the experiment actually had to be stopped, and particularly the experiment in children had to be stopped, because the changes in insulin that were observed early in the study were so detrimental that the Institutional Review Board quite appropriately said, "We can't do this to these kids.
我认为这是一个不错的评估，尽管我会指出这项研究如此有争议的原因之一，或者为什么这些数据如此有争议，是实验实际上必须停止，特别是儿童实验必须停止，因为在研究早期观察到的胰岛素变化非常有害，以至于机构审查委员会非常恰当地说，“我们不能对这些孩子这样做。
They're experiencing these odd shifts in insulin that are not healthy for them when they're just ingesting artificial sweeteners in the absence of these glucose-increasing foods." So once again, I do ingest artificial sweeteners, I'm not saying that they're dangerous, I'm not saying that they are not dangerous, I'm saying that you have to decide for yourself.
当他们在缺乏这些增加血糖的食物的情况下只摄入人造甜味剂时，他们的胰岛素会出现这些奇怪的变化，这对他们来说是不健康的。”所以，我再说一遍，我确实摄入了人造甜味剂，我并不是说它们很危险，我也不是说它们不危险，我是说你必须自己决定。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In previous episodes, I've highlighted that artificial sweeteners have been shown, in studies of animals, that when given in very high doses, sucralose in particular, there can be fairly robust disruption to the gut microbiome, which is vital for immune health and brain health, et cetera, et cetera.
在之前的剧集中，我强调了对动物的研究表明，当给予非常高剂量的人工甜味剂（尤其是三氯蔗糖）时，会对肠道微生物组产生相当大的破坏，而肠道微生物组对于免疫健康和大脑健康等至关重要。
But thus far, our knowledge of how artificial sweeteners negatively impact, or positively impact, I should say, the microbiome and other deleterious effects on the body has mainly been explored in animal studies.
但到目前为止，我们对人工甜味剂如何对微生物组和其他对身体有害影响产生负面影响或积极影响的了解主要是在动物研究中探索的。
Again, the work by Dana Small has been done in humans.
达纳·斯莫尔（Dana Small）的工作再次在人类身上完成。
There's some parallel work by others in animal models.
其他人在动物模型方面也开展了一些类似的工作。
I bring it up today to illustrate the following point: normally we have a pathway that we don't have to condition at all; it's there from birth, whereby ingestion of sweet foods causes increases in dopamine, and there are parallel pathways by which neurons in our gut and elsewhere in our body trigger further increases in dopamine.
我今天提出这个问题是为了说明以下一点：通常我们有一条根本不需要调节的路径；它从出生起就存在，摄入甜食会导致多巴胺增加，并且我们肠道和身体其他部位的神经元通过平行途径触发多巴胺进一步增加。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So there's no need for a conditioned response or to become Pavlovian about this, right?
所以没有必要对此做出条件反应或成为巴甫洛夫式的，对吧？
You're hardwired to want to eat sweet things by at least two and probably three parallel pathways.
你天生就想通过至少两条甚至可能三个平行的途径吃甜食。
Now, the work from Dana Small's lab and others that have illustrated this conditioned flavor preference, I think beautifully show that any flavor that's associated with a glucose spike, or a long-sustained increase in glucose, can also be conditioned.
现在，达纳·斯莫尔实验室和其他人的工作已经说明了这种条件性风味偏好，我认为完美地表明，任何与葡萄糖峰值或葡萄糖长期持续增加相关的风味也可以被条件化。
In other words, the circuits for dopamine that reinforce the desire to eat particular things is not unique to the sugar pathway.
换句话说，增强吃特定食物欲望的多巴胺回路并不是糖通路所独有的。
And this is one of the reasons, I believe, why ingestion of sweet foods doesn't just lead us to want to eat more sweet foods, I think that is absolutely clear based on animal data and on human data.
我相信，这就是为什么摄入甜食不仅仅会让我们想要吃更多甜食的原因之一，我认为根据动物数据和人类数据，这一点是绝对清楚的。
I think it's robust; it's actually the stuff of textbooks now.
我认为它很坚固；现在这实际上是教科书上的内容。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But in addition, ingesting sweet foods and/or foods that raise blood glucose but that we don't perceive as sweet — so, for instance, foods with hidden sugars, sugars that have been masked by salty or spicy taste — increases our desire for glucose-elevating foods and food generally.
但除此之外，摄入甜食和/或会升高血糖但我们不认为是甜的食物——例如，含有隐藏糖分的食物，被咸味或辣味掩盖的糖分——会增加我们对升糖食物和一般食物的渴望。
I think that's the only logical interpretation of the data that I can arrive at.
我认为这是我能得到的对数据的唯一合乎逻辑的解释。
So for people that struggle with regulating their appetite or with regulating their sugar appetite, I think the understanding of conditioned flavor preference, while a little bit complicated, ought to be useful in trying to navigate reducing sugar cravings and sugar intake.
因此，对于那些难以调节食欲或控制糖食欲的人来说，我认为对条件性风味偏好的理解虽然有点复杂，但对于尝试减少对糖的渴望和糖的摄入量应该很有用。
As a segue into tools to control sugar intake, as a means to both regulate sugar intake itself as well as food intake overall and steer us towards healthier choices, I'd like to talk about some of the special populations out there that might want to be especially wary of having a dysregulated sugar appetite system.
作为控制糖摄入量的工具，作为调节糖摄入量本身以及整体食物摄入量并引导我们做出更健康选择的手段，我想谈谈一些特殊人群，他们可能需要特别警惕糖食欲系统失调。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the group I'm referring to specifically are those with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and/or people who have issues with focus and attention generally.
我具体指的群体是那些患有注意力缺陷多动障碍的人和/或一般有注意力不集中问题的人。
And I think more and more nowadays, I'm hearing that people are having a hard time focusing.
我认为现在我越来越多地听到人们很难集中注意力。
This probably has something to do with our interactions with electronic devices — as I always say, if a picture is worth a thousand words, a movie is worth a million pictures.
这可能与我们与电子设备的交互有关——正如我常说的，如果一张图片抵得上一千个字，那么一部电影抵得上百万张图片。
And the fact that we can access so many movies in just by scrolling with our thumb is something that the nervous system has just never contended with before in human history, I'm confident of that.
事实上，我们只需用拇指滚动就可以访问如此多的电影，这是人类历史上神经系统从未遇到过的事情，我对此充满信心。
And it's not that it can't deal with it, the question is what's the trade off?
并不是它不能处理它，问题是权衡是什么？
What are the consequences of that?
这样做的后果是什么？
So attention and ability to focus is obviously key to success in school, success in relationship, success in the workplace, and success in life.
因此，注意力和集中注意力的能力显然是学业成功、人际关系成功、工作场所成功和生活成功的关键。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We could probably even go so far as to say one's ability to succeed in anything is proportional to one's ability to focus, and then deliberately defocus when the time comes to defocus, right?
我们甚至可以说，一个人在任何事情上取得成功的能力与一个人专注的能力成正比，然后在需要散焦的时候故意散焦，对吗？
Because we all need rest and we need to disengage and then reengage.
因为我们都需要休息，需要放松然后重新投入。
If you look at the sum total of the meta-analyses and the clinical data on ADHD and nutrition, you arrive at a pretty clear answer, which is that sugar consumption, in particular highly refined sugars, is just not good for people with ADHD or with attentional issues.
如果你看一下关于多动症和营养的荟萃分析和临床数据的总和，你会得到一个非常明确的答案，那就是糖的摄入，特别是高度精制的糖，对于患有多动症或注意力问题的人来说是不利的。
Now, as I say that, I also want you to recall the earlier study that I referred to whereby the tuning of neurons in the brain is highly dependent on glucose.
现在，正如我所说，我还希望您回想起我提到的早期研究，即大脑中神经元的调节高度依赖于葡萄糖。
So this doesn't mean consuming no glucose is going to be a good idea.
因此，这并不意味着不摄入葡萄糖是个好主意。
It doesn't mean that the ketogenic diet is necessarily the best diet for ADHD, although there are some people pursuing that and exploring that, and we'll do yet another episode on ADHD at some point that goes a little bit deeper into that because there's some new data.
这并不意味着生酮饮食一定是治疗多动症的最佳饮食，尽管有些人在追求并探索这一点，我们将在某个时候制作关于多动症的另一集，更深入地探讨这一点，因为有一些新数据。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I did do a very long and fairly extensive episode on ADHD, you're welcome to look that up if you like in our archive at hubermanlab.com.
我确实做了一个关于多动症的很长且相当广泛的剧集，如果您喜欢的话，欢迎您在 hubermanlab.com 的存档中查找。
It's all timestamped, because a number of people said, "Oh, it's an episode on ADHD and you made it two-and-a-half hours long," yes, we did because we wanted it to be as comprehensive as we could at the time, but it is timestamped; you can just jump to the particular topics of interest, and they're short little cassettes there.
这一切都带有时间戳，因为很多人说，“哦，这是关于多动症的一集，你把它制作了两个半小时长，”是的，我们这样做是因为我们希望它尽可能全面，但它带有时间戳；你可以直接跳到感兴趣的特定主题，它们都是简短的小磁带。
Now, if you'd like to know upon what I'm basing the statement that sugar consumption and highly refined sugar consumption is potentially bad for ADHD, I'm basing this mainly on the conclusions of a really nice paper.
现在，如果你想知道我关于糖摄入和高度精制糖摄入可能对多动症有害的说法的依据是什么，我主要是基于一篇非常好的论文的结论。
The title of the paper is "Sugar consumption, sugar sweetened beverages and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder: A systematic review and meta-analysis." And this is a paper.
论文的标题是“糖消费、含糖饮料和注意力缺陷多动障碍：系统评价和荟萃分析”。这是一篇论文。
We'll put a link to this in the caption.
我们将在标题中添加指向此内容的链接。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This was published in Complementary Therapies in Medicine, which is a bit of an atypical journal in some sense, but I really like this meta-analysis.
这篇文章发表在《医学补充疗法》上，从某种意义上来说，这是一本非典型的期刊，但我真的很喜欢这篇荟萃分析。
The sum total of this meta-analysis is really that when, especially, kids get beyond four sugary drinks per week, so four sodas of typical 12-ounce soda, when they get past four 12-ounce sugary sodas — they didn't, as far as I know, look at artificially sweetened sodas — that's when you start to see a shift towards more negative outcomes, more symptoms of existing ADHD.
这项荟萃分析的总和实际上是，特别是当孩子们每周喝超过四杯含糖饮料，即四杯典型的 12 盎司苏打水时，当他们超过四杯 12 盎司含糖苏打水时——据我所知，他们没有考虑人工加糖的苏打水——那时你就会开始看到更多负面结果的转变，更多现有 ADHD 的症状。
Now, where the controversy comes in is whether or not sugar consumption can actually trigger or cause ADHD, and I don't think we can conclude that at all at this time.
现在，争论的焦点是吃糖是否真的会引发或导致多动症，我认为我们目前还不能得出这样的结论。
And this review, if you decide to check it out — review/meta-analysis, I should say — if you decide to check it out, goes into some of the nuance around that.
这篇评论，如果你决定检查一下——我应该说，评论/元分析——如果你决定检查一下，就会涉及到一些细微差别。
What's also interesting in terms of ADHD and sugar intake, and probably as relevant to all of us, is that they also cover some of the interesting data showing that supplementation with omega-3 fatty acids can actually be beneficial for people, in particular kids with ADHD.
在注意力缺陷多动症和糖摄入量方面，可能与我们所有人都相关的有趣之处在于，它们还涵盖了一些有趣的数据，表明补充 omega-3 脂肪酸实际上对人们有益，尤其是患有注意力缺陷多动症的儿童。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've talked before about the utility of omega-3s, that's been shown in various studies that have compared omega-3 fatty acid intake to, say, prescription antidepressants like SSRIs, like Prozac, Zoloft, and similar — fluoxetine.
我之前谈过 omega-3 的效用，这已在各种研究中得到证实，这些研究将 omega-3 脂肪酸的摄入量与处方抗抑郁药（例如 SSRIs、百忧解、左洛复和类似药物氟西汀）进行了比较。
And the results of those studies are pretty clear, at least to me, that provided that one gets at least one gram of EPA, essential fatty acid — so it's not just getting one gram per day, but one or more grams per day of the EPA form of essential fatty acid — can rival some prescription antidepressants and/or decrease the amount of antidepressants that's required to take, which for a lot of people can be a very useful thing because of the side-effect profile of many of those antidepressants.
这些研究的结果非常清楚，至少对我来说，只要一个人摄入至少一克 EPA（必需脂肪酸）——因此不仅仅是每天摄入一克，而是每天摄入一克或更多 EPA 形式的必需脂肪酸——可以与一些处方抗抑郁药相媲美和/或减少需要服用的抗抑郁药的量，这对很多人来说可能是一件非常有用的事情，因为许多抗抑郁药都有副作用。
Of course, talk to your psychiatrist, talk to your doctor, but the omega-3s are, no doubt, powerful.
当然，请咨询您的精神科医生，咨询您的医生，但 omega-3 毫无疑问是强大的。
And then of course, there's a whole story about omega-3s and heart health, and of course, like anything else, there's some controversy around omega-3s, but I think the data are clear enough to me around mood and cardiovascular health that certainly I personally ingest them.
当然，还有一个关于 omega-3 和心脏健康的完整故事，当然，就像其他任何事情一样，围绕 omega-3 存在一些争议，但我认为关于情绪和心血管健康的数据对我来说足够清楚，当然我个人也摄入了它们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But as always, I always say, anytime you're going to add or remove anything from your nutrition, supplementation, exercise or otherwise, your lifestyle, definitely consult with a board-certified physician.
但与往常一样，我总是说，每当您要添加或删除营养、补充剂、运动或其他生活方式中的任何内容时，一定要咨询经过委员会认证的医生。
I don't just say that to protect me, I say that to protect you; you are responsible for your health ultimately.
我这样说不只是为了保护我，我这样说也是为了保护你；您最终要对自己的健康负责。
So omega-3 supplementation has been shown to be beneficial for ADHD.
因此，补充 omega-3 已被证明对治疗多动症有益。
Why am I talking about this in the context of an episode on sugar and the nervous system?
为什么我要在关于糖和神经系统的故事中谈论这个？
Well, if you remember those neuropod cells, those cells in your gut that respond to sugar and send signals up to the brain to cause the release of dopamine, well, it turns out that neuropod cells also respond to amino acids and to fatty acids, in particular essential fatty acids.
好吧，如果你还记得那些神经足细胞，即肠道中那些对糖做出反应并向大脑发送信号以导致多巴胺释放的细胞，那么事实证明，神经足细胞也对氨基酸和脂肪酸，特别是必需脂肪酸做出反应。
So these cells that we call neuropod cells have three jobs: one is to detect levels of sugar in the gut, the other is to detect levels of amino acids and to detect levels of particular essential fatty acids and communicate that information to the brain.
因此，这些我们称为神经足细胞的细胞有三项工作：一是检测肠道中的糖水平，二是检测氨基酸水平和特定必需脂肪酸水平并将该信息传达给大脑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I should point out, when I say, "Communicate that information," they're not actually saying, "Hey, there's amino acids here," or, "Hey, there's sugar here," or, "Hey, there's essential fatty acids," because the language of these cells is somewhat generic, it's just the firing of electrical potentials.
我应该指出，当我说“传达该信息”时，他们实际上并不是在说“嘿，这里有氨基酸”，或者“嘿，这里有糖”，或者“嘿，这里有必需脂肪酸”，因为这些细胞的语言有些通用，只是激发电位。
But that's the key point: it's generic and all three or any of those three — sugar, essential fatty acids, or amino acids — will trigger these neurons to signal to the brain to increase dopamine, and it is not coincidental that omega-3 fatty acid supplementation can help ameliorate some of the symptoms of ADHD by way of presumably increasing dopamine in this neuropod-to-dopamine pathway that we talked about earlier.
但这是关键点：它是通用的，所有这三种或这三种——糖、必需脂肪酸或氨基酸——都会触发这些神经元向大脑发出信号以增加多巴胺，而且补充 omega-3 脂肪酸可以通过增加我们之前讨论过的神经足到多巴胺途径中的多巴胺来帮助改善 ADHD 的一些症状，这并非巧合。
The whole thing has a very nice, logical structure to it and points to, yet again, the immense value of bringing the proper amounts, maybe even supplementing the proper amounts of omega-3 fatty acids and the proper amounts of amino acids into the gut as a way to supplant some of the stimulation of these pathways that would otherwise be caused by sugar.
整个事情有一个非常好的、合乎逻辑的结构，并再次指出，将适量的、甚至可能补充适量的 omega-3 脂肪酸和适量的氨基酸带入肠道，作为取代这些途径的一些刺激的巨大价值，否则这些刺激可能是由糖引起的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's actually a version of this where one could say if you want to reduce sugar cravings, you might consider increasing certain forms of amino acid intake or certain forms of fatty acid intake.
实际上有一个版本，如果你想减少对糖的渴望，你可以考虑增加某些形式的氨基酸摄入量或某些形式的脂肪酸摄入量。
So what are some ways that we can reduce our sugar cravings and ideally ways that we can do that that also benefit us in other ways, both nutritionally and from the neuroscience standpoint?
那么，我们可以通过哪些方法来减少对糖的渴望，以及理想情况下，我们可以通过哪些方法来做到这一点，同时从营养和神经科学的角度来看，我们还能在其他方面使我们受益呢？
Well, these neuropod cells that respond to and signal the brain when we ingest sugar, as I mentioned, also respond to amino acids and essential fatty acids.
正如我所提到的，当我们摄入糖时，这些神经足细胞会对大脑做出反应并向大脑发出信号，它们也会对氨基酸和必需脂肪酸做出反应。
We already talked about the essential fatty acids.
我们已经讨论过必需脂肪酸。
I make it a particular point to ingest anywhere from one to three grams, that's grams, of EPA essential fatty acid per day.
我特别强调每天摄入一到三克（即克）的 EPA 必需脂肪酸。
I make it a point to do that with the ingestion of high-quality omega-3s.
我强调通过摄入高质量的 omega-3 来做到这一点。
For me, the simplest way to do that, and I think for most people, the lowest-cost way to do that is to use some liquid form of fish oil or some capsule form of fish oil.
对我来说，最简单的方法，我认为对大多数人来说，成本最低的方法是使用某种液体形式的鱼油或某种胶囊形式的鱼油。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You really do have to see how much essential fatty acid in the form of EPA is in those.
你确实必须看看其中有多少 EPA 形式的必需脂肪酸。
If you try and do that only through capsules, it can get kind of expensive depending on which particular brands you use; some have more EPA, some less.
如果您尝试仅通过胶囊来做到这一点，那么根据您使用的特定品牌，它可能会变得有点昂贵；有些含有较多的EPA，有些则较少。
You can of course also do this through foods, you can do this with nonfish sources through things like algae.
当然，您也可以通过食物来做到这一点，您可以通过藻类等非鱼类来源来做到这一点。
And there's some other forms, you can look it up online, your plant-based sources of EPAs, you can do this with high-quality fish oil.
还有其他一些形式，你可以在网上查一下，你的植物性EPA来源，你可以用高质量的鱼油来做到这一点。
In any case, that does seem, at least based on a modest amount but nonetheless solid literature, to reduce sugar craving somewhat.
无论如何，至少根据少量但仍然可靠的文献，这似乎确实可以在一定程度上减少对糖的渴望。
But that could easily be by mere replacement of calories, right?
但这很容易通过简单地替代卡路里来实现，对吗？
So we don't know yet, based on human studies, whether or not the ingestion of those EPAs is specifically activating the neuropod cells, which specifically activates dopamine release and bypasses the need for, or the craving for sugar.
因此，根据人体研究，我们还不知道摄入这些 EPA 是否会特异性激活神经足细胞，从而特异性激活多巴胺释放并绕过对糖的需求或渴望。
We don't know that yet, but logically it holds up to assume that.
我们还不知道这一点，但从逻辑上讲，这一假设是成立的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But logically it holds up to assume that.
但从逻辑上讲，这个假设是成立的。
The fact that these neuropod cells, and I should say other neurons within the gut, respond very robustly to the presence of particular amino acids is also a potential lever by which one could reduce sugar cravings.
事实上，这些神经足细胞，以及肠道内的其他神经元，对特定氨基酸的存在做出非常强烈的反应，这也是人们可以减少对糖的渴望的潜在杠杆。
And there's an interesting literature around the amino acid glutamine, in particular supplementing with the amino acid glutamine, as it relates to sugar cravings and certainly as it relates to other aspects of the gut, in particular leaky gut.
关于氨基酸谷氨酰胺，有一篇有趣的文献，特别是补充氨基酸谷氨酰胺，因为它与对糖的渴望有关，当然也与肠道的其他方面有关，特别是肠漏。
The use of supplemental glutamine to try and treat leaky gut is not a new phenomenon.
使用补充谷氨酰胺来尝试治疗肠漏并不是一个新现象。
There are other approaches too, of course, but there are many people who are experimenting with supplementing with glutamine, several grams per day, often even five grams distributed through three or four different servings throughout the day, as a way to blunt their sugar cravings.
当然，还有其他方法，但有很多人正在尝试补充谷氨酰胺，每天几克，通常甚至是五克，一天中分成三到四份不同的份量，作为减少对糖的渴望的一种方法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, there has not yet been a large-scale clinical trial using glutamine to reduce sugar cravings, but the results of the few studies that I looked at, as well as my understanding of the logic of these neural circuits, including the neuropod cells, brings us to a conclusion that it makes sense why if there's a population of neurons within our gut that responds very robustly to the presence of sugar, fatty acids or amino acids, that the intake of particular amino acids would allow the dopamine pathways that might otherwise be triggered by sugar to be triggered by something like glutamine, which has very few or no calories.
现在，还没有使用谷氨酰胺来减少对糖的渴望的大规模临床试验，但我研究的几项研究的结果，以及我对这些神经回路（包括神经足细胞）逻辑的理解，让我们得出这样的结论：如果我们的肠道内有一群神经元对糖、脂肪酸或氨基酸的存在反应非常强烈，那么摄入特定氨基酸将允许多巴胺通路，否则可能会由糖触发，这是有道理的由谷氨酰胺之类的物质触发，谷氨酰胺的热量很少或根本没有。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And in fact, having talked about this previously, a number of people that I know went out and tried this.
事实上，之前已经讨论过这个问题，我认识的很多人都出去尝试过了。
Now this is, of course, what I call anecdata, right?
当然，这就是我所说的轶事，对吧？
This is not a quality peer-reviewed study.
这不是一项高质量的同行评审研究。
This is anecdata many of them have reported back that they actually feel as if their sugar cravings are reduced.
这是许多人反馈的轶事，他们实际上感觉自己对糖的渴望减少了。
I know some people who actually take glutamine and mix it with full-fat cream and take it kind of like a shot of full-fat cream, which sounds absolutely delicious, by the way.
我知道有些人实际上服用谷氨酰胺并将其与全脂奶油混合，然后像喝一杯全脂奶油一样服用，顺便说一句，这听起来绝对美味。
Glutamine is a little bit chalky, so it's not that great tasting to ingest with sugar.
谷氨酰胺有点白垩，所以与糖一起摄入味道不太好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I should mention, if you do try and take this approach of ingesting glutamine to reduce sugar cravings, you want to increase the amount of glutamine that you take somewhat gradually.
我应该提到，如果您确实尝试采用这种摄入谷氨酰胺的方法来减少对糖的渴望，您需要逐渐增加谷氨酰胺的摄入量。
It can create some gastric distress if you just, I certainly wouldn't take a big tablespoon of it, throw it in water and chug it down three times a day.
如果你只是，我当然不会拿一大汤匙，把它扔进水里，每天喝三次，它会造成一些胃部不适。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some of you with very hearty stomachs can probably tolerate that, if you're like my bulldog, who unfortunately passed away.
如果你们像我不幸去世的斗牛犬一样，胃口很大的人可能可以忍受这一点。
But Costello, I always imagine that if ever we did autopsy on him, he'd have a license plate and a human being in his gut because it seemed like he could ingest anything with no issues.
但是科斯特洛，我总是想象，如果我们对他进行尸检，他的肠子里就会有一个车牌和一个人，因为看起来他可以毫无问题地吞下任何东西。
But of course, many people have kind of sensitive guts.
但当然，很多人都有敏感的直觉。
So if you're going to try taking glutamine as a means to reduce sugar cravings, just know that the studies are still ongoing.
因此，如果您打算尝试服用谷氨酰胺作为减少对糖的渴望的方法，请知道这些研究仍在进行中。
Some people have achieved benefit.
有些人已经获得了利益。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Please also realize that there's an entire literature devoted to the potential hazards of increasing glutamine if you have a preexisting cancer.
另请注意，有大量文献专门讨论如果您患有癌症，增加谷氨酰胺的潜在危害。
So if you have cancer or you're cancer-prone, I would really discourage you from this approach.
因此，如果您患有癌症或有癌症倾向，我真的不鼓励您采用这种方法。
And in any case, as always, talk to your doctor.
无论如何，一如既往，请咨询您的医生。
The logic nonetheless is there why increasing amino acid intake or fatty acid intake might decrease sugar craving.
尽管如此，逻辑还是存在的，为什么增加氨基酸摄入量或脂肪酸摄入量可能会减少对糖的渴望。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, there are other ways to reduce sugar craving, and there are certainly ways to reduce the sharp rise in blood glucose that can occur when we ingest sugary sweet foods or even just an abundance of carbohydrate foods.
现在，还有其他方法可以减少对糖的渴望，并且肯定有方法可以减少当我们摄入含糖甜食甚至大量碳水化合物食物时可能发生的血糖急剧上升。
And there are a huge number of these things I'm going to sort of layer up through the ones that you might find in your cupboard or at the grocery store and then get into some of the more extravagant, or I should say esoteric ones, many of which however can be quite potent.
这些东西有很多，我将把你可能在橱柜或杂货店找到的那些东西一层一层地介绍，然后进入一些更奢侈的，或者我应该说深奥的东西，但其中许多可能非常有效。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The first of which is simple lemon juice, right?
第一个是简单的柠檬汁，对吧？
Or lime juice.
或酸橙汁。
There was an old lore and actually some papers pointing to the idea that the ingestion of vinegar, either white vinegar or wine vinegar, could somehow blunt blood glucose after the ingestion of sugary foods or the ingestion of a lot of carbohydrate foods or even just a big meal.
有一个古老的传说，实际上一些论文指出，在摄入含糖食物或摄入大量碳水化合物食物甚至只是一顿大餐后，摄入醋（无论是白醋还是酒醋）可以以某种方式降低血糖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Actually, Tim Ferris, I should say, the great Tim Ferris because I do have great respect for the fact that he seems to be about 10 years ahead of everything, both in terms of nutrition and skill learning and things of that sort.
事实上，蒂姆·费里斯，我应该说，伟大的蒂姆·费里斯，因为我确实非常尊重这样一个事实，即他似乎在营养和技能学习等方面都领先了大约 10 年。
Many of the things that he predicted in his books "The 4-Hour Body" and the "4-Hour Chef" actually turned out to be true, based on scientific data, some of which only exists in the animal models, but now also some predictions that played out to be true in both the animal models and the human models.
他在《四小时身体》和《四小时厨师》一书中预言的许多事情实际上都被证明是真实的，基于科学数据，其中一些只存在于动物模型中，但现在也有一些预测在动物模型和人体模型中都被证明是正确的。
So I think that Tim certainly deserves a hat tip for the fact that he experimented with these methods and reported his experiences with those methods and that now some of them, many of them have been validated by what I perceive to be quality science.
因此，我认为蒂姆当然值得向他致敬，因为他尝试了这些方法并报告了他使用这些方法的经验，现在其中一些方法，其中许多方法已经得到了我认为是高质量科学的验证。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He talked about the fact that, at least in his experiments on himself, the ingestion of vinegar did not seem to blunt blood glucose, and he was using continuous glucose monitors.
他谈到这样一个事实：至少在他自己的实验中，摄入醋似乎并没有降低血糖，而且他正在使用连续血糖监测仪。
These incidentally, another example of where Ferris was early to the game and the rest of us are kind of just in his wake, he talked about the use of blood glucose monitors.
顺便说一句，费里斯很早就参与了这个游戏，我们其他人就在他身后，他谈到了血糖监测仪的使用。
Those I think at the time were implanted below the skin; nowadays there are less invasive blood glucose monitors, things like Levels, and so forth.
我当时认为那些是植入皮下的；现在有侵入性较小的血糖监测仪，例如水平仪等等。
And these are actually becoming pretty popular.
这些实际上变得非常流行。
I've worn one of these before.
我以前穿过其中一件。
They're actually pretty informative.
它们实际上信息量很大。
I learned, for instance, that when I go in the sauna that I experience a sharp rise in blood glucose, and that makes sense because of the dehydration associated with being in the sauna.
例如，我了解到，当我去桑拿浴室时，我的血糖会急剧上升，这是有道理的，因为在桑拿浴室中会导致脱水。
A lot of sweating — concentration of sugar in the bloodstream goes up.
大量出汗——血液中的糖浓度升高。
So there's some other things that certain foods affect my blood glucose one way or another.
因此，某些食物还会以某种方式影响我的血糖。
It's kind of an interesting and fun experiment that some of you might be interested in doing as well.
这是一个有趣且有趣的实验，你们中的一些人可能也有兴趣做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Regardless, there are now data pointing to the fact that lemon juice and lime juice, a couple tablespoons or so, if ingested before or even during or even after consumption of sugary foods, or I should say foods that sharply increase blood glucose or large carbohydrate meals, can actually blunt the blood glucose response.
不管怎样，现在有数据表明，柠檬汁和酸橙汁，几汤匙左右，如果在食用含糖食物之前、期间甚至之后摄入，或者我应该说急剧增加血糖的食物或大量碳水化合物膳食，实际上可以减弱血糖反应。
And I did see that when I did my own experiments on myself with continuous glucose monitor.
当我用连续血糖监测仪对自己进行实验时，我确实看到了这一点。
It was kind of fun to do those experiments.
做这些实验很有趣。
I preferred to do those experiments by eating somewhat larger meals of things that didn't contain a lot of sugar.
我更喜欢通过吃一些不含大量糖的食物来进行这些实验。
I saw some big increases in blood glucose in certain instances, and then I would ingest some lemon juice or lime juice, typically mixed in with water.
在某些情况下，我发现血糖大幅上升，然后我会摄入一些柠檬汁或酸橙汁，通常与水混合。
And sure enough, you could see a blunting of the blood glucose response.
果然，您可以看到血糖反应减弱。
And of course this was real-time blood, continuous, hence continuous blood glucose monitoring.
当然，这是实时血液、连续的、因此连续的血糖监测。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So for those of you that are interested in blunting your blood sugar response certain foods, that's a simple low-cost way to do that.
因此，对于那些有兴趣减弱某些食物对血糖反应感兴趣的人来说，这是一种简单、低成本的方法。
If you want to explore it.
如果你想探索它。
I will say if you are fasting and you already have low blood glucose and you ingest lemon juice, or I should say it's some lemon juice and water or lime juice and water, be careful because you can actually become hypoglycemic, right?
我会说，如果你正在禁食并且你已经有低血糖并且你摄入了柠檬汁，或者我应该说它是一些柠檬汁和水或酸橙汁和水，那么要小心，因为你实际上可能会出现低血糖，对吧？
For the very same reasons that lemon juice and lime juice can blunt blood glucose when your blood glucose levels are moderate to high, you can also reduce blood glucose levels even further when blood glucose levels are low.
出于同样的原因，柠檬汁和酸橙汁可以在血糖水平中等到高时降低血糖，当血糖水平较低时，您也可以进一步降低血糖水平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now that's lemon juice and lime juice, they're ...
现在是柠檬汁和酸橙汁，它们是......
But we can't say that has to do with acidic things generally.
但我们不能说这与一般酸性物质有关。
And just as a side point, many of you have probably seen in the store so-called adjusted pH waters or foods and drinks that are supposed to adjust your pH; hate to break it to you, but your pH is very tightly regulated throughout your brain and body.
顺便说一句，你们中的许多人可能在商店里看到过所谓的调节 pH 值的水或食物和饮料，它们应该可以调节您的 pH 值；不想透露给你，但你的 pH 值在你的大脑和身体中受到非常严格的调节。
You do not want this to change.
你不希望这一点改变。
It is entirely impossible, at least in any safe way, that you would become "more alkaline" by ingesting an alkaline water or something like that.
至少以任何安全的方式，你完全不可能通过摄入碱性水或类似的东西而变得“更加碱性”。
It is true that the pH, your alkaline and acidity varies in different compartments in your body.
确实，身体不同部位的 pH 值、碱性和酸性会有所不同。
That's important unless you are hemorrhaging or vomiting, or there's something badly wrong with you health-wise and you're in a really dire circumstance.
这很重要，除非您出血或呕吐，或者您的健康状况出现严重问题并且您的情况非常糟糕。
You don't want big shifts in your body pH, and your body has all sorts of ways of buffering against changes in pH.
您不希望体内 pH 值发生大幅变化，而且您的身体有各种方法来缓冲 pH 值的变化。
So I encourage you not to fall or hop on the bandwagon of adjusting pH and becoming less acidic, and that kind of thing.
所以我鼓励你不要跟随调整 pH 值、降低酸性等的潮流。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When you ingest lemon juice or lime juice, the mechanism by which it blunts blood glucose is probably twofold.
当您摄入柠檬汁或酸橙汁时，它降低血糖的机制可能是双重的。
One is probably through the postingestive effects of glucose in the gut, meaning the way in which sugars are interacting with neurons and other components of your gut circuitry to impact things like gastric emptying time to impact things like the firing of those neuropod cells and their signaling to the brain.
一种可能是通过肠道中葡萄糖的食后效应，即糖与神经元和肠道回路的其他组成部分相互作用的方式，从而影响胃排空时间等，从而影响神经足细胞的放电及其向大脑发出的信号等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But almost certainly it has something to do also with the perception of sour taste on the tongue.
但几乎可以肯定，它也与舌头上酸味的感觉有关。
We didn't go into this too much today, but you, of course, don't just have sweet taste receptors in your mouth.
我们今天没有过多讨论这个问题，但当然，你的嘴里不仅仅有甜味感受器。
You also have bitter taste receptors, you have salty taste receptors, you have sour taste receptors in your mouth, and of course that means your tongue and palate and those are interacting.
你的嘴里也有苦味感受器、咸味感受器、酸味感受器，当然这意味着你的舌头和上颚正在相互作用。
If you ingest a substance that's just sweet or mostly sweet, that causes a certain set of effects on your blood glucose, but also your brain dopamine and the other neural circuits of your brain, if you also ingest something that sour, like lemon juice or lime juice, it adjusts the output of those neural circuits in your brain.
如果您摄入的物质只是甜的或大部分是甜的，这会对您的血糖、大脑多巴胺和大脑的其他神经回路产生一定的影响，如果您还摄入酸的东西，例如柠檬汁或酸橙汁，它会调整您大脑中这些神经回路的输出。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So again, where you have a situation where you have two parallel pathways, one that's postingestive coming from phenomenon within our gut neurons, but also things like gastric emptying time, the clearance and the transfer of food and the conversion of food into particular nutrients and the circulation of glucose in your bloodstream and how it gets into the brain, but also simply by ingesting something sour, you are changing the way that sweet things impact your brain.
再说一次，如果你有两种平行的途径，一种是来自肠道神经元内现象的摄食后途径，还有胃排空时间、食物的清除和转移、食物转化为特定营养物质、血液中葡萄糖的循环以及葡萄糖如何进入大脑等因素，而且只是通过摄入酸味物质，你正在改变甜食影响大脑的方式。
And so I think it stands to reason that the lemon juice, lime juice effect is not going to be magic.
所以我认为按理说柠檬汁、酸橙汁的效果不会那么神奇。
It's going to have everything to do with the way that ingesting sour foods can adjust the neural response to taste of sweet foods.
这与摄入酸味食物可以调整神经对甜食味道的反应有关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And in fact, we know, based on the beautiful work of Charles Zuker at Columbia Medical School, that that's exactly what happens.
事实上，根据哥伦比亚医学院查尔斯·祖克 (Charles Zuker) 的出色工作，我们知道，这正是所发生的情况。
They've measured the activity of neurons at various locations in the so-called taste pathways of the brain.
他们测量了大脑所谓味觉通路不同位置神经元的活动。
And they found that when particular tastes like just sweet or just bitter or just sour evoke certain ensembles of neurons to fire in particular sequences, when sweet and sour are coingested, when bitter and sour are coingested, you get distinct ensembles, meaning distinct patterns of activity of those neurons and, of course, distinct patterns of downstream activity within the brain and body.
他们发现，当特定的味道，如甜味、苦味或酸味，会唤起某些神经元群以特定的顺序放电，当甜和酸混合时，当苦和酸混合时，你会得到不同的整体，这意味着这些神经元的活动模式不同，当然，大脑和身体内下游活动的模式也不同。
So while it is still somewhat mysterious as to how exactly things like lemon juice and lime juice can reduce our blood glucose spikes when we ingest those with sweet foods or carbohydrate-laden foods or with big meals, you can use this as a tool, with the understanding that there's a grounding in the biology of the way these circuits work.
因此，虽然当我们摄入甜食或富含碳水化合物的食物或大餐时，柠檬汁和酸橙汁等物质究竟如何降低我们的血糖峰值仍然有些神秘，但您可以将其用作一种工具，但要了解这些回路的工作方式有生物学基础。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, some of you have probably heard that cinnamon can be a useful tool for controlling blood sugar, and indeed, that's the case.
现在，你们中的一些人可能听说肉桂可以成为控制血糖的有用工具，事实确实如此。
It's very clear that cinnamon can adjust the rate of glucose entry into the bloodstream, possibly by changing the rate of gastric emptying.
很明显，肉桂可以调节葡萄糖进入血液的速度，可能是通过改变胃排空的速度来实现的。
It might slow the rate of gastric emptying and thereby also reduce the glycemic index of particular foods.
它可能会减慢胃排空速度，从而降低特定食物的血糖指数。
So I suppose if I were going to eat a mango and I hadn't just done a bunch of hard training, I might sprinkle some cinnamon on it here.
所以我想如果我要吃芒果并且我没有刚刚进行过大量艰苦的训练，我可能会在上面撒一些肉桂。
I always enjoy kind of coming up with new ideas of ways that I can eat foods during these podcasts.
我总是喜欢在这些播客中提出关于饮食方式的新想法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In any event, there's some debate out there if you look online as to whether or not Saigon cinnamon, cassia cinnamon or Ceylon cinnamon is best for purposes of blunting blood glucose spikes.
无论如何，如果你在网上查看西贡肉桂、桂皮肉桂或锡兰肉桂是否最适合抑制血糖峰值，就会存在一些争论。
But I think, at least by my read of the data and from what I've found, it doesn't really matter provided it's real cinnamon, and you have to actually look and make sure that it's real cinnamon because a lot of cinnamon that you buy is not real.
但我认为，至少通过我对数据的阅读和发现，只要它是真正的肉桂，这并不重要，而且你必须实际查看并确保它是真正的肉桂，因为你购买的很多肉桂都不是真的。
I do want to provide a cautionary note about cinnamon, however.
不过，我确实想对肉桂提出警告。
Cinnamon contains something called Coumadin, which can be toxic at high levels.
肉桂含有一种叫做香豆素的物质，高浓度时可能有毒。
So you don't want to ingest more than about a teaspoon, maybe a teaspoon and a half of cinnamon per day because you'll start to exceed the threshold at which cinnamon could start to be problematic.
因此，您不想每天摄入超过一茶匙，也许一茶匙半的肉桂，因为您将开始超过肉桂可能开始出现问题的阈值。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But certainly if you're going to have a big meal or a meal that has a lot of sugar in it or a lot of carbohydrate-laden foods, and you don't want an increase in blood glucose, you could put cinnamon in a beverage, you could put cinnamon on food in order to blunt that blood glucose increase, reduce the glycemic index by way of reducing gastric emptying time.
但当然，如果你要吃一顿大餐，或者一顿含有大量糖分或大量碳水化合物的食物，并且你不想增加血糖，你可以在饮料中加入肉桂，你可以在食物中加入肉桂，以抑制血糖增加，通过减少胃排空时间来降低血糖指数。
Again, just making sure that you don't get out past that one-and-a-half teaspoons per day, because you really don't want to start dealing with any of the toxicity related to Coumadin.
再次强调，确保您每天的摄入量不会超过一茶匙半，因为您真的不想开始处理与香豆素相关的任何毒性。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we've talked about lemon juice and lime juice and cinnamon.
我们讨论了柠檬汁、酸橙汁和肉桂。
These are kind of commonplace in many kitchens.
这些在许多厨房中都很常见。
Then of course, we venture into the more esoteric or, I would say, the more advanced tools for adjusting sugar intake.
当然，我们会尝试更深奥的，或者我想说的，更先进的调整糖摄入量的工具。
And the one that comes to mind is, of course, berberine.
我想到的当然是小檗碱。
Berberine is a derivative of tree bark and is a very, very potent substance for reducing blood glucose.
小檗碱是树皮的衍生物，是一种非常非常有效的降低血糖的物质。
So much so that is on par with metformin or glibenclamide, which are prescription drugs specifically used to reduce blood glucose.
其效果与二甲双胍或格列本脲相当，它们是专门用于降低血糖的处方药。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So using berberine is a serious step.
因此，使用小檗碱是一个严肃的步骤。
You should absolutely talk to your doctor about it.
您绝对应该与您的医生讨论此事。
I know of a number of people that use it to lower blood glucose when they eat really large meals.
我知道很多人在吃大餐时用它来降低血糖。
I know a number of people that are using it to get to some of the other effects of metformin that people have discussed.
我知道很多人正在使用它来了解人们已经讨论过的二甲双胍的其他一些作用。
Things like activating or tapping into the so-called AMPK pathway, reducing mTOR.
比如激活或利用所谓的 AMPK 通路，减少 mTOR。
These are people that are aiming their activities at increasing longevity.
这些人的活动旨在延长寿命。
A somewhat controversial approach still, but I know many people are doing it.
这种方法仍然有些争议，但我知道很多人都在这样做。
It is true that if you ingest berberine, your blood glucose will plummet.
确实，如果摄入小檗碱，您的血糖会直线下降。
And I point that out because I've actually tried it before.
我指出这一点是因为我之前实际上已经尝试过。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It gave me brutal headaches, and I felt really dizzy, and I felt like I couldn't see straight, and actually I couldn't see straight.
这让我头疼欲裂，头晕目眩，我感觉我看不清，事实上我也看不清。
Why did it do that?
它为什么这么做？
Well, it made me hypoglycemic.
嗯，这让我低血糖了。
It actually drove my blood glucose down too far.
它实际上使我的血糖下降太多。
And the reason it did that is that I took berberine on an empty stomach.
这样做的原因是我空腹服用小檗碱。
I know some people can tolerate it.
我知道有些人可以忍受。
I would say be very cautious about ingesting berberine on an empty stomach, or if you are on a low-carbohydrate diet, unless you really know what you're doing, and you have a medical professional to kind of guide you through that.
我想说的是，空腹或低碳水化合物饮食时摄入小檗碱要非常谨慎，除非你真的知道自己在做什么，并且有医疗专家来指导你。
If I took berberine along with a very large meal that included a lot of carbohydrates — I can recall the days in which Costello and I would eat a couple of pizzas and then we might get ice cream, that kind of thing — then I felt perfectly fine on even up to 750 milligrams or a gram of berberine.
如果我在吃一顿含有大量碳水化合物的大餐的同时服用小檗碱——我还记得我和科斯特洛会吃几个披萨，然后我们可能会吃冰淇淋之类的东西——那么即使服用 750 毫克或一克小檗碱，我也感觉完全没问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It has the kind of unique property of making you feel not overwhelmed by the amount of blood glucose increase that you're experiencing from eating a big meal.
它具有一种独特的特性，可以让您不会因吃大餐而出现的血糖升高而感到不知所措。
I don't quite know how else to describe it.
我不太知道还能如何描述它。
It's almost as if you can keep eating and eating and eating.
就好像你可以一直吃啊吃啊吃。
And of course you have to protect your gastric volume, right?
当然，你必须保护你的胃容量，对吗？
I mean, you only have so much space in your stomach to ingest food.
我的意思是，你的胃里只有这么多空间来摄取食物。
I wasn't using it to gorge on food, I'd just heard about it.
我不是用它来暴饮暴食，我只是听说过它。
I was interested in experimenting with it.
我有兴趣尝试一下。
I don't have any chronic blood sugar issues, but again, when I took it on empty stomach, it made me hypoglycemic on a low-carbohydrate intake.
我没有任何慢性血糖问题，但同样，当我空腹服用它时，低碳水化合物摄入量使我出现低血糖。
Hypoglycemic, not a good experience and again, an experience, I think, to avoid.
低血糖，不是一个好的经历，而且我认为，这是一个应该避免的经历。
But provided there's a lot of glucose in your bloodstream, and certainly if you are of the experimental type, or you're trying to regulate blood glucose, berberine might be a good option.
但如果您的血液中含有大量葡萄糖，并且如果您属于实验类型，或者您正在尝试调节血糖，小檗碱可能是一个不错的选择。
But again, talk to your doctor.
但再次强调，请咨询您的医生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It does have some other interesting effects in terms of lowering total cholesterol that are research-supported, of reducing insulin a little bit.
它确实在降低总胆固醇方面还有一些其他有趣的作用，这些作用是经过研究支持的，可以稍微减少胰岛素的作用。
Well, that's not surprising, if you reduce blood glucose, you're going to reduce insulin because, of course, insulin manages blood glucose in the bloodstream.
嗯，这并不奇怪，如果你降低血糖，你就会减少胰岛素，因为胰岛素当然可以控制血液中的血糖。
So I would place berberine and, of course, metformin and glibenclamide in the kind of the heavy-hitting, potent tools for regulating blood glucose.
因此，我将小檗碱，当然还有二甲双胍和格列本脲置于调节血糖的强力、有效工具中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, this is an episode not about sugar per se, but sugar viewed through the lens of the nervous system.
现在，这一集不是关于糖本身，而是通过神经系统的镜头来看待糖。
And what's interesting about berberine, metformin, glibenclamide and related substances is that some of the effects are, of course, on gastric emptying or buffering blood glucose within the bloodstream, et cetera.
小檗碱、二甲双胍、格列本脲和相关物质的有趣之处在于，其中一些作用当然是对胃排空或缓冲血液中的血糖等。
But there appear to also be some neural effects of having chronically low glucose or blunting blood glucose through things like berberine.
但长期低血糖或通过小檗碱等药物降低血糖似乎也会对神经产生一些影响。
And some of those neural effects include longstanding changes in the hormonal cascades that are the consequence of having low blood sugar and thereby changes in the neural circuits that manage blood glucose overall.
其中一些神经影响包括低血糖导致的荷尔蒙级联的长期变化，从而导致管理血糖的神经回路发生变化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The simple way of saying this is that by maintaining low to moderate blood glucose, either by not ingesting heavily carbohydrate-laden foods, so here I'm speaking to the low-carb and to the ketogenic types, or by blunting blood glucose through things like metformin or berberine, even if ingesting carbohydrates, maybe even some sugars.
简单地说，通过保持低至中等血糖，要么不摄入富含碳水化合物的食物，所以在这里我指的是低碳水化合物和生酮类型，要么通过二甲双胍或小檗碱等药物来降低血糖，即使摄入碳水化合物，甚至可能是一些糖。
Over time, it seems that there's an adjustment, what we call a homeostatic regulation, of the neural circuits that control things like sugar craving.
随着时间的推移，控制对糖的渴望等事物的神经回路似乎会发生调整，我们称之为稳态调节。
And indeed, some people report feeling fewer sugar cravings over time.
事实上，有些人报告说，随着时间的推移，他们对糖的渴望越来越少。
Now, I didn't use berberine for a very long period of time.
现在，我已经很长一段时间没有使用小檗碱了。
I've never used metformin.
我从未使用过二甲双胍。
I have experienced a somewhat odd but welcome phenomenon of with each progressive year of my life, I have fewer and fewer sugar cravings.
我经历了一个有点奇怪但值得欢迎的现象，随着我生命中每一年的进步，我对糖的渴望越来越少。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Why that is, I don't know.
为什么会这样，我不知道。
I suspect it might have something to do with my sleep, and I'll talk about that in a few minutes.
我怀疑这可能与我的睡眠有关，我会在几分钟后讨论这个问题。
But if you're going to explore berberine or metformin or otherwise, in addition to working with a doctor, I think you should understand why you're doing it, right?
但是，如果您打算探索小檗碱或二甲双胍或其他药物，除了与医生合作之外，我认为您应该明白为什么要这样做，对吧？
I think that many of the effects can be quite potent.
我认为许多影响可能非常有效。
They can happen in both the immediate term in terms of regulating blood glucose.
它们可以在调节血糖方面立即发生。
They can send you hypoglycemic if you aren't careful.
如果您不小心，他们可能会导致您出现低血糖。
They can also cause longstanding changes to the neural circuitry that regulates blood sugar over time.
随着时间的推移，它们还会导致调节血糖的神经回路发生长期变化。
Some of which might be welcome changes, right?
其中一些可能是值得欢迎的变化，对吗？
Reduce sugar cravings, for instance.
例如，减少对糖的渴望。
And if you're really, really serious about modulating blood glucose through things like berberine, the typical dose range, again, is anywhere from half a gram to 1.5 grams daily.
如果您真的非常认真地想通过小檗碱等物质调节血糖，那么典型的剂量范围是每天 0.5 克到 1.5 克。
That's the typical dosages that have been explored.
这是已探索过的典型剂量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there are some other substances like sodium caprate, which are known to augment the effects of berberine via the AMPK pathways.
还有一些其他物质，例如癸酸钠，已知可以通过 AMPK 途径增强小檗碱的作用。
They basically can increase the ability for berberine to have its glucose-lowering actions.
它们基本上可以增加小檗碱降血糖作用的能力。
But that, of course is getting into the really potent, what I would call sharp-blade tools for controlling blood glucose.
但这当然是进入真正有效的、我称之为控制血糖的锋利刀片工具。
And listen, anytime you're dealing with blood glucose, you are dealing with the brain's preferred source of fuel.
听着，任何时候当你处理血糖时，你都在处理大脑首选的燃料来源。
And anytime you're dealing with the brain's preferred source of fuel, you have to be especially cautious about depriving the brain of what it needs.
每当你处理大脑首选的燃料来源时，你都必须特别小心，不要剥夺大脑所需的能量。
So whether or not you're low carb, high carb, keto, vegan, carnivore, these substances like berberine are very, very potent, and you need to take them seriously.
因此，无论您是否是低碳水化合物、高碳水化合物、酮类、素食主义者、肉食动物，这些物质（例如小檗碱）都非常非常有效，您需要认真对待它们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There is yet another tool for controlling sugar cravings and the neural circuits that regulate sugar craving and its downstream consequences.
还有另一种工具可以控制对糖的渴望以及调节对糖的渴望及其下游后果的神经回路。
And this tool is what I would call a high-performance tool, but it's one that you probably didn't suspect, and that's sleep.
这个工具就是我所说的高性能工具，但你可能没有怀疑它，那就是睡眠。
I've done extensive episodes about sleep, and we actually have an episode called "Master Your Sleep." You can find that episode easily at hubermanlab.com.
我已经制作了大量关于睡眠的剧集，实际上我们有一集叫做“掌控你的睡眠”。您可以在 hubermanlab.com 轻松找到该剧集。
It's available in all the various formats, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, et cetera and provides a lot of tools, and on social media, I provide a lot of tools.
它有各种格式，YouTube、Apple、Spotify 等，并提供了很多工具，在社交媒体上，我提供了很多工具。
Often we have a newsletter that provides tools to how to maximize sleep.
我们经常会收到一份时事通讯，提供如何最大限度地提高睡眠质量的工具。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What is the role of sleep in sugar metabolism, sugar hunger, and the way that the brain regulates those things?
睡眠在糖代谢、糖饥饿以及大脑调节这些事物的方式中发挥什么作用？
Well, there's a really exciting study that came out just last year.
嗯，去年刚刚发表了一项非常令人兴奋的研究。
This study was published in the journal Cell Report, Cell Press journal — excellent journal.
这项研究发表在Cell Report杂志上，Cell Press杂志——优秀杂志。
And the reason I love this study so much is it involved having people — so, yes, this was done in humans — sleep in the laboratory.
我如此喜欢这项研究的原因是它涉及让人们——所以，是的，这是在人类身上进行的——在实验室里睡觉。
That's not unusual.
这并不罕见。
There's a sleep lab at Stanford, there are sleep labs elsewhere.
斯坦福大学有一个睡眠实验室，其他地方也有睡眠实验室。
But what they did was they actually measured from the breath of these people, and they extracted from their breath the metabolites that would allow them to understand what sorts of metabolism was occurring in these people's bodies at different phases of sleep.
但他们所做的是实际测量这些人的呼吸，并从他们的呼吸中提取代谢物，使他们能够了解这些人的身体在不同睡眠阶段发生的新陈代谢类型。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this is a really, really remarkable study.
这是一项非常非常了不起的研究。
They actually did this every 10 seconds throughout the entire night.
事实上，他们整个晚上每 10 秒就这样做一次。
So in little, tiny 10-second bins, meaning at very high resolution, they could evaluate what is the metabolism in the brain and body that people experience as they go from REM sleep, rapid eye movement sleep, to slow-wave sleep, and so on.
因此，在很小的 10 秒时间段内，即非常高分辨率，他们可以评估人们从快速眼动睡眠、快速眼动睡眠到慢波睡眠等过程中所经历的大脑和身体的新陈代谢情况。
And I'll go deeper into the study again in the future because it's so interesting and I think so important.
将来我会再次深入研究这项研究，因为它非常有趣，而且我认为非常重要。
But what they discovered was that each stage of sleep was associated with a very particular signature pattern of metabolism, and particular phases of sleep are associated with sugar metabolism or more with fat metabolism or more with other aspects of metabolism.
但他们发现，睡眠的每个阶段都与非常特殊的代谢特征模式相关，并且特定的睡眠阶段与糖代谢或更多与脂肪代谢或更多与代谢的其他方面相关。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the reason why I think this study is important to discuss in the context of today's discussion about sugar in the brain is that many people have experienced the effects of disrupted sleep on their appetite.
我认为这项研究在今天关于大脑中的糖的讨论中讨论很重要的原因是，许多人都经历过睡眠中断对食欲的影响。
And in particular it's been reported that when people are sleep-deprived, or the quality of their sleep is disrupted, that their appetite for sugary foods increases.
特别是有报道称，当人们睡眠不足或睡眠质量受到干扰时，他们对含糖食物的胃口就会增加。
Now, that was always assumed to be due to some metabolic need that was triggered by the sleep deprivation or by the poor sleep.
现在，人们总是认为这是由于睡眠不足或睡眠质量不佳引发的某些代谢需求所致。
But in reading over the study, some of the more important points made by the authors relate to the fact that well, sleep is known to have incredibly important effects on brain and body for a variety of systems, immune system, neural functioning, et cetera.
但在阅读这项研究时，作者提出的一些更重要的观点与这样一个事实有关：众所周知，睡眠对大脑和身体的各种系统、免疫系统、神经功能等有着极其重要的影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This very organized sequence of particular forms of metabolism being active during particular phases of sleep, which are very, very well orchestrated, as we know, slow-wave sleep and REM sleep being orchestrated in 90 minute, so-called ultradian cycles, and so on, and so forth, is thought to perhaps set up the brain and body to be able to regulate itself in the waking hours.
这种非常有组织的特定形式的新陈代谢序列在特定的睡眠阶段活跃，这是非常非常精心策划的，正如我们所知，慢波睡眠和快速眼动睡眠在 90 分钟内精心策划，所谓的超昼周期，等等，被认为可能使大脑和身体能够在清醒时进行自我调节。
And therefore when people are sleep-deprived or deprived of certain forms or states within sleep, such as rapid eye movement sleep, that it creates a disruption in a particular set of metabolic pathways.
因此，当人们睡眠不足或睡眠中的某些形式或状态被剥夺时，例如快速眼动睡眠，就会对一组特定的代谢途径造成干扰。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, we don't want to leap too far from this study to sugar metabolism and the neural circuits controlling sugar metabolism, but I will say this, if you look at the sum total of the data on obesity or on type 2 diabetes or on metabolic syndromes of any kind, you almost always see disruptions in sleep.
现在，我们不想从这项研究跳得太远，涉及糖代谢和控制糖代谢的神经回路，但我要说的是，如果你查看有关肥胖或 2 型糖尿病或任何类型代谢综合征的数据总和，你几乎总是会看到睡眠中断。
Now, some of those could be due to sleep apnea caused by even just the size of somebody's neck or the weight of their body.
现在，其中一些可能是由于睡眠呼吸暂停而引起的，甚至只是某人脖子的大小或身体的重量造成的。
In other words, we don't know the direction of the effect, right?
换句话说，我们不知道效果的方向，对吗？
Metabolic syndromes could disrupt sleep, which disrupt metabolic syndromes.
代谢综合征可能会扰乱睡眠，从而扰乱代谢综合征。
And indeed, the authors point out quite appropriately that they don't understand the direction of the effects that they observe either.
事实上，作者非常恰当地指出，他们也不理解他们观察到的效应的方向。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there is now a plethora of data pointing to the fact that getting quality sleep each night helps regulate not only appetite, but also the specific forms of metabolism that drive specific appetites.
但现在有大量数据表明，每晚获得优质睡眠不仅有助于调节食欲，还有助于调节驱动特定食欲的特定新陈代谢形式。
So the takeaway is while there are extravagant and potent and interesting ways to regulate blood glucose, everything from cinnamon to lemon juice to berberine to sodium caprate to behavioral tools to the mere understanding of how the direct and indirect pathways go from the gut to dopamine, et cetera.
因此，我们得出的结论是，虽然有很多奢侈、有效和有趣的方法来调节血糖，从肉桂到柠檬汁，从黄连素到癸酸钠，再到行为工具，再到仅仅了解如何从肠道到多巴胺的直接和间接途径，等等。
If you're not establishing the firm foundation of proper metabolism, all of those things are going to be sort of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, as sometimes described.
如果你没有为适当的新陈代谢奠定坚实的基础，那么所有这些事情都将有点像重新安排泰坦尼克号上的躺椅，正如有时所描述的那样。
So we can't overstate the importance of getting regular, sufficient amount of high-quality sleep at least 80% of the time, not just for sake of immune system function, for clear thinking, et cetera, but also for properly regulating our metabolism, including our sugar metabolism.
因此，我们无论如何强调至少在 80% 的时间里获得规律、充足的高质量睡眠的重要性都不为过，这不仅是为了免疫系统功能、清晰的思维等等，也是为了正确调节我们的新陈代谢，包括我们的糖代谢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me for this discussion about sugar and the nervous system and how they are regulating each other in both the brain and body.
感谢您与我一起讨论糖和神经系统以及它们如何在大脑和身体中相互调节。
If you're enjoying and/or learning from this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您喜欢此播客和/或从中学习，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
Please also subscribe to our podcast on Apple and Spotify.
另请订阅我们在 Apple 和 Spotify 上的播客。
And on Apple, you have the opportunity to leave us up to a five-star review.
在苹果上，您有机会给我们五星级的评价。
If you have comments and feedback or suggestions for future topics and guests, please leave those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对未来的主题和嘉宾有意见、反馈或建议，请在 YouTube 的评论部分留下。
In addition, please check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning of today's podcast.
另外，请查看今天播客开头提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support us.
这是支持我们的最好方式。
If you're not already following Huberman Lab on Instagram or Twitter, please do so.
如果您还没有在 Instagram 或 Twitter 上关注 Huberman Lab，请立即关注。
There I cover science and science-based tools that sometimes overlap with the content of the podcast, but often is distinct from the content of the podcast.
我在那里介绍了科学和基于科学的工具，这些工具有时与播客的内容重叠，但通常与播客的内容不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Also, if you haven't yet signed up for the Huberman Lab Neural Network Newsletter, it's a semimonthly newsletter that includes summaries of various podcasts.
此外，如果您尚未订阅 Huberman 实验室神经网络通讯，这是一份半月通讯，其中包含各种播客的摘要。
It has some actionable protocols.
它有一些可操作的协议。
It's completely cost free, you simply provide your email.
它完全免费，您只需提供您的电子邮件即可。
We have a very clear privacy policy.
我们有非常明确的隐私政策。
We do not share your email.
我们不会分享您的电子邮件。
If you want to get the newsletter, you can go to hubermanlab.com.
如果您想获取时事通讯，可以访问 hubermanlab.com。
Just go to the menu.
只需进入菜单即可。
You can find the sign up there easily.
您可以轻松地在那里找到标志。
You can also see some examples of previous newsletters without having to sign up at all.
您还可以查看以前的时事通讯的一些示例，而无需注册。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。