Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is James Sexton.
今天我的客人是詹姆斯·塞克斯顿。
James Sexton is a renowned attorney with over 25 years of experience in family law, specializing in prenuptial agreements and divorces.
James Sexton 是一位著名律师，在家庭法领域拥有超过 25 年的经验，擅长处理婚前协议和离婚。
He is known as what many call the voice of reason between love and legal.
他被许多人称为爱与法律之间的理性之声。
Today, we discuss something that might seem counterintuitive, which is how the legal frameworks and contracts surrounding relationships, particularly prenuptial agreements, can actually deepen emotional connection and build trust between partners.
今天，我们讨论一些看似违反直觉的事情，即围绕关系（尤其是婚前协议）的法律框架和合同如何能够真正加深伴侣之间的情感联系并建立信任。
As James points out, intimacy and trust are fundamentally about the ability to be your true self with your partner and them with you.
正如詹姆斯所指出的，亲密和信任从根本上来说是关于在伴侣面前以及伴侣与你之间展现真实自我的能力。
It's about allowing ourselves to be vulnerable.
这是让我们自己变得脆弱。
It's also about having a same-team spirit, of course, respect for one another, and admiration for each other's unique qualities.
当然，这还涉及到团队精神，相互尊重，以及对彼此独特品质的钦佩。
Today, we explore how prenuptial agreements, which most often are viewed as being unromantic or pessimistic, can actually serve as ways to establish a sense of safety for both people and prevent many common conflicts and misunderstandings.
今天，我们探讨婚前协议（通常被认为是不浪漫或悲观的）如何实际上成为为双方建立安全感并防止许多常见冲突和误解的方法。
As James puts it, everyone has a prenup.
正如詹姆斯所说，每个人都有婚前协议。
You either have one that was created by the state legislature, or you can tailor one to you and your partner's unique needs.
您可以拥有由州立法机构创建的一个，也可以根据您和您伴侣的独特需求定制一个。
He also points out something that many people will find surprising, which is that the vast majority of people who do prenups stay married, and yet most people opt not to do them.
他还指出了许多人会感到惊讶的事情，那就是绝大多数签署婚前协议的人都保持婚姻状态，但大多数人选择不这样做。
We also discuss love itself and the key questions that we all need to ask to find the right partner, and if you have one, to build the strongest possible bonds with them.
我们还讨论了爱本身以及我们都需要提出的寻找合适伴侣的关键问题，如果您有合适的伴侣，请与他们建立尽可能牢固的联系。
The information in today's episode is going to be extremely important for anyone looking for or currently in a relationship.
今天这一集中的信息对于任何正在寻找或正在恋爱的人来说都非常重要。
Whether you're single, dating, engaged, or married, understanding how the legal and emotional frameworks that support lasting relationships intersect can help you navigate one of life's most rewarding but challenging journeys with much greater awareness and intention and probability of success.
无论您是单身、正在约会、订婚还是已婚，了解支持持久关系的法律和情感框架如何交叉可以帮助您以更大的意识、意图和成功概率来度过人生中最有价值但最具挑战性的旅程之一。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, this episode does include sponsors.
为了与这个主题保持一致，这一集确实有赞助商。
And now for my discussion with James Sexton.
现在我与詹姆斯·塞克斯顿进行讨论。
Jim Sexton, welcome.
吉姆·塞克斯顿，欢迎。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
It's good to be here.
很高兴来到这里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've been wanting to do this for a while.
我想做这个已经有一段时间了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I know.
我知道。
It's a long time in the making, yeah.
制作已经很长时间了，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think if two guys sit down, one of them a lawyer who's known as a divorce lawyer, and they're talking about divorce and love and money and contracts and the ending of things, I think there's a understandable default mindset where the female half of our audience are probably going to think, "Here are a couple guys talking about relationships and divorce through the lens of their Y chromosomes."
我认为，如果两个人坐下来，其中一个是被称为离婚律师的律师，他们正在谈论离婚、爱情、金钱、合同以及事情的结局，我认为这是一种可以理解的默认心态，我们观众中的女性一半可能会想，“这里有一对男人通过他们的 Y 染色体的镜头谈论关系和离婚。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which, of course, it's impossible to avoid completely because-
当然，这是不可能完全避免的，因为——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I haven't done the karyotyping, but-
我还没做过核型分析，但是-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you have a Y chromosome, and I do as well.
你有Y染色体，我也有。
I would like to know, in your experience working with male clients and female clients-
我想知道，根据您与男性客户和女性客户合作的经验——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is there something unique to the female experience of divorce or the female experience of realizing, wow, this contract that I thought was for life may not or is not for life, that sort of drives a kind of female specific set of-
女性离婚经历或女性意识到的独特经历，哇，这份我认为是终身的合同可能不是或不是终身的，这在某种程度上驱动了一种女性特有的——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
psychological responses?
心理反应？
Here, I'm basically asking for a generalization.
在这里，我基本上是要求概括。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I want to be clear, I'm not asking this for politically correct reasons.
我想澄清的是，我提出这个问题并不是出于政治正确的原因。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm asking this because, like I said, two guys sitting down to talk about-
我问这个问题是因为，就像我说的，两个人坐下来谈论——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
relationships, love, and divorce-
人际关系、爱情和离婚——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it's kind of where the mind goes.
这就是心灵所去的地方。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, and before I would get canceled in the comments for being misandrist or misogynist, I always try to say that the things I'm observing are a function of having divorced thousands of people, men and women.
是的，在我因厌男或厌女而被取消评论之前，我总是试图说，我所观察到的事情是与成千上万的人离婚的结果，无论男人还是女人。
For 25 years, I've done nothing but divorce law on a full-time basis, and I mean it on a truly full-time basis.
25 年来，我除了全职从事离婚法工作外，什么也没做，我是说真正的全职工作。
So I wake up in the morning thinking about this stuff.
所以我早上醒来就想着这些事情。
I go to bed thinking about this stuff.
我上床睡觉时想着这些事情。
I work six, seven days a week.
我每周工作六、七天。
That's why I'm divorced.
这就是我离婚的原因。
I really, really love the work.
我真的非常喜欢这份工作。
And so all the things I'm saying are really just my observations.
所以我所说的所有事情实际上只是我的观察。
So in response to that question, I think the world relates to divorced men and divorced women differently, and I think people's self-conception, right, is very different.
因此，在回答这个问题时，我认为世界对离婚男性和离婚女性的关系是不同的，而且我认为人们的自我概念是非常不同的。
So I often tell my male clients when we're dealing with a custody case, for example, which is arguments over when a child's going to live with whom and when they're going to spend time with whom, and there was this concept called the maternal presumption, which was around legally for years, or something called the tender years doctrine.
因此，例如，当我们处理监护权案件时，我经常告诉我的男性客户，这是关于孩子何时与谁生活以及何时与谁共度时光的争论，并且有一个称为母性推定的概念，该概念在法律上存在了多年，或者称为“幼年原则”。
It's called different things in different states, but it was around until probably the 1980s, and that was that a child was assumed to stay in the custody of the mother unless you could prove she was an unfit mother.
它在不同的州有不同的称呼，但大约直到 20 世纪 80 年代才出现，那时孩子被认为由母亲监护，除非你能证明她是一个不称职的母亲。
So men were automatically second class when it came to being a parent.
因此，在成为父母方面，男性自然是二等公民。
So it was automatic.
所以它是自动的。
It was the default.
这是默认的。
Now, of course, in the '80s, there was a different makeup of the workforce.
当然，现在，在 80 年代，劳动力的构成有所不同。
There was a different in gender roles, obviously, in terms of assignment of childcare responsibilities.
显然，在育儿责任的分配方面，性别角色存在差异。
It was a different world to some degree.
从某种程度上来说，这是一个不同的世界。
But that was eradicated in the 1980s.
但这种情况在 20 世纪 80 年代被根除。
And the bench, even the judges, have changed dramatically.
而替补席，甚至法官，都发生了巨大的变化。
When I started practicing 25 years ago, 90% of the judges I appeared in front of were old white men, period.
当我 25 年前开始练习时，我面前的评委 90% 都是白人老人，就这样。
That was it.
就是这样。
It was old white men.
那是白人老人。
And so I got in the habit of have a short haircut, hide the tattoos, look like you're coming out of the set of "Inherit the Wind." Because you've got a conservative old man as your judge.
所以我养成了留短发、隐藏纹身的习惯，看起来就像是从《承风而来》的片场走出来的。因为你有一个保守的老人作为你的法官。
That is not the makeup of the bench anymore.
这不再是替补席的构成了。
The bench now is as diverse as the people that it serves.
现在的板凳和它所服务的人一样多样化。
So one of the things, though, that I tell my male clients is, even though that maternal presumption is gone, women fight harder for custody than men do.
因此，我告诉我的男性客户的一件事是，尽管母性推定已经消失，但女性比男性更努力地争取监护权。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really?
真的吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I'd love to say to you that it's because the maternal instinct and bond is so strong that women just care about their kids, and they want custody.
我很想告诉你，正是因为母性的本能和纽带如此强烈，女性才只关心自己的孩子，她们想要监护权。
I don't really believe it's that.
我真的不相信是这样的。
I think it's the following If you and I just met in normal life, right?
我想这就是下面的如果你我只是在平常生活中认识的吧？
We're just out at a bar, and I sit up, and you say, "So, Jim, tell me about yourself." And I say, "Well, I'm divorced.
我们就在一家酒吧里，我坐起来，你说：“那么，吉姆，告诉我一些关于你自己的事。”我说：“好吧，我离婚了。
My kids live with their mom.
我的孩子们和他们的妈妈住在一起。
I see them every other weekend and once a week for dinner." You would go, "Okay, cool.
我每隔一个周末见一次，每周一次共进晚餐。”你会说：“好吧，酷。
Jim's a divorced guy.
吉姆是个离过婚的人。
He's working.
他正在工作。
He does his thing." I'm a woman, and I say, "I have two kids.
他做他的事。”我是一个女人，我说：“我有两个孩子。
They live with their father.
他们和父亲住在一起。
I see them every other weekend." You go, "What is wrong with this one?
我每隔一个周末就会见到他们一次。”你会说：“这有什么问题吗？
Is she on substance use issues, mental health issues?
她是否有药物滥用问题、心理健康问题？
Why does he have custody of the kids?
为什么孩子的抚养权是他的？
Why doesn't she have custody of her kids?" So there is an element of how motherhood is perceived as an identity, even for a working woman, that it's like if you don't have your kids on a full-time or close to full-time basis, there's this perception.
为什么她没有孩子的监护权？”因此，即使对于职业女性来说，母亲身份也被视为一种身份，就像如果你没有全职或接近全职抚养孩子，就会有这种看法。
So that infuses, that changes the way that women are in custody litigation.
因此，这改变了女性参与监护权诉讼的方式。
That's a huge piece of it.
这是其中很大的一部分。
On the other side of things, the gender stuff in divorce and in breakups is really interesting and complicated in the sense that, for example, if a man cheats on his wife, he's a piece of shit, can't keep it in his pants, he's a child.
另一方面，离婚和分手中的性别问题确实很有趣也很复杂，例如，如果一个男人背叛了他的妻子，他就是一坨屎，不能把它藏在裤子里，他还是个孩子。
Why couldn't he be honest?
他为什么不能诚实呢？
A woman cheats on her husband, she was driven into the arms of another man.
一个女人背叛了自己的丈夫，她被投入另一个男人的怀抱。
He wasn't meeting her needs.
他没有满足她的需要。
This was her journey of self-discovery.
这是她的自我发现之旅。
You see it in popular media.
你可以在流行媒体上看到它。
Watch any film, any TV show.
观看任何电影、任何电视节目。
When the man cheats, it's like he's a lecherous guy who just...
当男人出轨的时候，就好像他是个好色的家伙，只是……
The woman cheats, it's like, oh, this poor woman.
女人出轨了，就像，哦，这个可怜的女人。
She needed to find herself.
她需要找到自己。
She needed her Eat Pray Love moment.
她需要“美食、祈祷、爱情”时刻。
And so that's, again, the way the world interacts with people in breakups and in the clay that builds to the breakup is very different.
因此，这又是世界与分手时的人们互动的方式，以及在分手的泥土中与人互动的方式是非常不同的。
So how people react to it is very different.
所以人们对此的反应是非常不同的。
Men, in my experience as clients, there's a lot of anger that manifests in very honest ways, very blunt ways, very because men are-- Bill Burr, recently, in one of his recent specials, has this thing about men are allowed to be two things: angry or fine.
男人，根据我作为客户的经验，有很多愤怒以非常诚实、非常直率的方式表现出来，非常因为男人——比尔·伯尔最近在他最近的一期特别节目中说，关于男人的事情可以是两件事：生气或好。
That's it.
就是这样。
Angry or fine.
生气还是罚款。
And I used to always say that growing up, I'm 52, growing up, I had two choices.
我过去总是说，在成长过程中，我已经 52 岁了，在成长过程中，我有两个选择。
You're either Clint Eastwood or Richard Simmons.
你要么是克林特·伊斯特伍德，要么是理查德·西蒙斯。
Those were your two choices as a man.
这是你作为一个男人的两个选择。
You were either stoic, stony, no emotion, or gay.
你要么是坚忍、冷漠、没有感情，要么是同性恋。
That was it.
就是这样。
Those were your two choices.
这是你的两个选择。
And of course, it's totally dishonest.
当然，这是完全不诚实的。
Of course, the reality is, is men have a different, we have an emotional vocabulary.
当然，现实是，男人有不同的，我们有情感词汇。
It just expresses in different ways.
它只是以不同的方式表达。
But anger is something men are allowed to have.
但愤怒是男人被允许拥有的。
So when men are sad, they seem angry.
所以当男人悲伤的时候，他们看起来很生气。
When men are angry, they seem angry.
当男人生气时，他们看起来很生气。
Women, my experience of women in divorce is, is they're much more forgiving in unhappy marriages.
女性，我对离婚女性的经验是，她们在不幸的婚姻中更加宽容。
They're much more willing to stay in relatively unhappy marriages and sort of torture their partner.
他们更愿意维持相对不幸福的婚姻并折磨他们的伴侣。
And then when they've decided, okay, I'm out, there is a level of like, yeah, whatever we got to do, we got to do.
然后当他们决定，好吧，我退出时，有一种程度的感觉，是的，无论我们要做什么，我们都必须做。
That sometimes to me, as someone who does this for a living, is like, oh, okay.
有时对我来说，作为一个以此为生的人，就像，哦，好吧。
You're just willing to go there.
你只是愿意去那里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like a mercenary.
就像一个雇佣兵。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
And you look at the history of the marriage, and you go, wow, when they were together, there's nothing she wouldn't do for him.
当你回顾这段婚姻的历史时，你会发现，哇，当他们在一起的时候，没有什么她不会为他做的。
And now it's ending, and man, there's nothing she won't do to him.
现在一切都结束了，伙计，她对他没有什么不敢做的。
She is just weaponized on him.
她只是将他武器化了。
And it used to be surprising to me.
这曾经让我感到惊讶。
It's not really surprising to me anymore.
这对我来说并不奇怪了。
I have a friend who was a criminal lawyer for many years, criminal defense attorney, really good one in the city.
我有一个朋友，当了很多年的刑事律师，刑事辩护律师，在城里确实是不错的律师。
And we used to laugh because he used to say, as a criminal lawyer, he sees bad people at their best.
我们常常笑，因为他常说，作为一名刑事律师，他看到了坏人最好的一面。
And as a divorce lawyer, I see good people at their worst.
作为一名离婚律师，我看到好人最糟糕的一面。
And it's always astounding to me because I've reached a level in my career, thankfully, where I represent elite athletes.
这总是让我感到震惊，因为我已经达到了职业生涯的某个水平，值得庆幸的是，我代表了精英运动员。
I represent people in the financial markets who literally move markets with their trades, people in the entertainment industry.
我代表金融市场中的人们，他们通过自己的交易真正推动市场，以及娱乐行业的人们。
And they are as bad at this as any of us.
他们在这方面和我们一样糟糕。
They're as bad at relationships, they're as bad at heartbreak as anybody.
他们和其他人一样不擅长人际关系，也不擅长伤心。
So, there were differences in the gender piece.
因此，性别部分存在差异。
There are differences in the socioeconomic piece.
社会经济方面存在差异。
But at the end of the day, it's hurt people hurting people, and it kind of looks roughly the same.
但归根结底，都是伤人伤人，而且看起来都差不多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's very interesting, and there's a lot in there.
这很有趣，而且里面有很多东西。
I want to return to this sort of divergent response to men cheating versus women cheating a little bit later.
我想稍后再回到对男性出轨和女性出轨的不同反应。
Super interesting area for exploration.
超级有趣的探索区域。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, I feel like I have a PhD in infidelity because it's part of 90-plus percent of divorces in some form.
嗯，我觉得我在不忠问题上拥有了博士学位，因为它是 90% 以上的离婚的一部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Really?
真的吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, it's why people, I think, mistake correlation for causation.
嗯，我认为这就是人们将相关性误认为因果关系的原因。
People all the time are like, "Why are you getting divorced?" "Because he's sleeping with his secretary." And it's like, oh, that's a pretty good reason to get divorced.
人们总是问：“你为什么要离婚？” “因为他和他的秘书睡了。”就像，哦，这是离婚的一个很好的理由。
But then when you scratch the surface, you're like, "Okay, but why is he sleeping with his secretary?" And there's almost always this very deep backstory of like, "Well, we stopped sleeping together." Why did we stop sleeping?
但当你触及表面时，你会想，“好吧，但他为什么和他的秘书睡在一起？”几乎总是有这样一个非常深刻的背景故事，比如“好吧，我们不再一起睡了。”为什么我们停止睡觉？
"Well, because he's unkind to me." Well, why is he unkind to you?
“嗯，因为他对我不友善。”那他为什么对你不友善呢？
"Well, because you're totally indifferent to me." And you start to go, okay, the truth's at the bottom of a bottomless pit, and we're never going to get there.
“嗯，因为你对我完全无动于衷。”然后你开始说，好吧，真相就在无底洞的底部，我们永远也到不了那里。
And all of those facts come with a point of view.
所有这些事实都带有一定的观点。
So when you do what I do for a living, which is full-contact storytelling, basically, in a courtroom against someone who's trying to tell the opposite story, you find a lot of what you're doing is just figuring out how to present the most persuasive version of this person's subjective experience of their own life.
因此，当你以我所做的为生时，基本上就是在法庭上与试图讲述相反故事的人进行全接触式讲故事，你会发现你所做的很多事情只是想办法呈现这个人对自己生活的主观体验的最有说服力的版本。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I would like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Wealthfront I've been using Wealthfront for my savings and for my investing for nearly a decade, and I absolutely love it.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Wealthfront 近十年来我一直使用 Wealthfront 进行储蓄和投资，我非常喜欢它。
At the start of every year, I set new goals, and one of my goals for 2025 is to focus on saving money.
每年年初，我都会设定新的目标，2025 年的目标之一就是专注于省钱。
Since I have Wealthfront, I'll keep that savings in my Wealthfront cash account, where I'm able to earn 4% annual percentage yield on my deposits, and you can as well.
由于我拥有 Wealthfront，我会将这笔储蓄保留在我的 Wealthfront 现金账户中，在那里我可以通过存款赚取 4% 的年收益率，您也可以。
With Wealthfront, you can earn 4% APY on your cash from partner banks until you're ready to either spend that money or invest it.
通过 Wealthfront，您可以从合作银行获得 4% 的现金年化收益，直到您准备好花掉这些钱或进行投资。
With Wealthfront, you also get free instant withdrawals to eligible accounts every day, even on weekends and holidays.
通过Wealthfront，您还可以每天免费即时提款到符合条件的账户，即使在周末和节假日也是如此。
The 4% APY is not a promotional rate, and there's no limit to what you can deposit and earn.
4% 年利率并非促销利率，您可以存款和赚取的金额没有限制。
And you can even get protection for up to $8 million through FDIC insurance provided through Wealthfront's partner banks.
您甚至可以通过 Wealthfront 合作银行提供的 FDIC 保险获得高达 800 万美元的保护。
Wealthfront gives you free instant withdrawals, where it takes just minutes to transfer your money to eligible external accounts.
Wealthfront 为您提供免费即时提款，只需几分钟即可将您的资金转入符合条件的外部账户。
It also takes just minutes to transfer your cash from the cash account to any of Wealthfront's automated investment accounts when you're ready to invest.
当您准备好投资时，只需几分钟即可将现金从现金账户转移到 Wealthfront 的任何自动投资账户。
There are already a million people using Wealthfront to save more, earn more, and build long-term wealth.
已有一百万人使用 Wealthfront 来储蓄更多、赚取更多并建立长期财富。
Earn 4% APY on your cash today.
今天就用现金赚取 4% 年化收益。
If you'd like to try Wealthfront, go to wealthfront.com/huberman to receive a free $50 bonus with a $500 deposit into your first cash account.
如果您想尝试Wealthfront，请访问wealthfront.com/huberman，在您的第一个现金账户中存入500美元即可获得免费的50美元奖金。
That's wealthfront.com/huberman to get started now.
现在就开始吧：www.realityfront.com/huberman。
This has been a paid testimonial of Wealthfront.
这是 Wealthfront 的付费推荐。
Wealthfront Brokerage isn't a bank.
Wealthfront Brokerage 不是银行。
The APY is subject to change.
APY 可能会发生变化。
For more information, see the episode description.
有关更多信息，请参阅剧集描述。
Today's episode is also brought to us by BetterHelp.
今天的节目也是由 BetterHelp 为我们带来的。
BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online.
BetterHelp 提供由持证治疗师完全在线进行的专业治疗。
I've been doing weekly therapy for well over 30 years.
三十多年来我每周进行一次治疗。
There are essentially three things that great therapy provides.
伟大的治疗本质上可以提供三件事。
First of all, it provides good rapport with somebody that you can really trust and talk to about any issues you want.
首先，它与您真正信任的人建立了良好的融洽关系，并可以谈论您想要的任何问题。
Second of all, it can provide support in the form of emotional support and directed guidance.
其次，它可以以情感支持和定向指导的形式提供支持。
And third, expert therapy provides useful insights, insights that allow you to better not just your emotional life and your relationships, but of course, also the relationship to yourself and to your professional life and to all sorts of life and career goals.
第三，专家治疗提供有用的见解，这些见解不仅可以让你改善你的情感生活和人际关系，当然也可以改善你与你自己、与你的职业生活以及与各种生活和职业目标的关系。
With BetterHelp, they make it extremely easy to find an expert therapist who you can really resonate with and that can help provide these benefits that come through effective therapy.
通过 BetterHelp，他们可以非常轻松地找到一位可以真正与您产生共鸣的专家治疗师，并且可以帮助您提供通过有效治疗带来的这些好处。
And because BetterHelp allows for therapy to be done entirely online, it's very time efficient and easy to fit into a busy schedule.
而且，由于 BetterHelp 允许完全在线进行治疗，因此非常省时且易于适应繁忙的日程。
There's no commuting to a therapist's office, finding parking, or sitting in a waiting room.
无需通勤到治疗师办公室、寻找停车位或坐在候诊室。
If you'd like to try BetterHelp, you can go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month.
如果您想尝试 BetterHelp，可以访问 betterhelp.com/huberman，第一个月可享受 10% 的折扣。
Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman.
再说一次，这是 betterhelp.com/huberman。
We're talking about breaking one contract, the contract of marriage.
我们谈论的是违反一份合同，即婚姻合同。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And creating a new contract.
并创建一个新的合同。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The contract of divorce.
离婚协议书。
I'm fascinated by contracts.
我对合同很着迷。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In the world of business, my business partner and I that started this podcast, I insisted that we take an even split.
在商界，我和我的商业伙伴发起了这个播客，我坚持要求我们平分。
That was important to me.
这对我来说很重要。
It's absolutely critical, because this podcast wouldn't be what it is without him-
这绝对至关重要，因为如果没有他，这个播客就不会是现在这样——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and his incredible expertise.
以及他令人难以置信的专业知识。
He is the genius behind it all.
他是这一切背后的天才。
Our initial contract was on a piece of paper-
我们最初的合同是写在一张纸上的——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in a little coffee shop in Manhattan.
在曼哈顿的一家小咖啡馆里。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Where I said, "How about this?
我说：“这个怎么样？
How about this?" And we discussed it.
这个怎么样？”我们讨论了它。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
People like you give lawyers-
像你这样的人给律师——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Like, we get hives.
就像，我们得了荨麻疹。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Like you say that and-
就像你说的那样-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay
好的
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
I instantly start like, you know.
我立刻开始说，你知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Six months later, or so, a lawyer told us we had to get a real contract.
大约六个月后，一位律师告诉我们，我们必须获得一份真正的合同。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we did it, and I have to say it was fine, and I'm glad we have contracts, but to me, all contracts, whether or not it's a scribble on a piece of paper or it's a formal contract, contracts make me feel safe.
我们做到了，我不得不说这很好，我很高兴我们有合同，但对我来说，所有合同，无论是纸上的潦草还是正式合同，合同都让我感到安全。
They make me feel good.
他们让我感觉很好。
I like rules and guidelines.
我喜欢规则和指导方针。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I like knowing what's going to happen if.
我喜欢知道如果会发生什么。
For a scientist-
对于一个科学家来说——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
this doesn't really exist.
这实际上并不存在。
You like to think you can control outcomes, but you can't, and you acknowledge-
你喜欢认为你可以控制结果，但你不能，而且你承认——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that, and you go into the unknown.
然后你就进入了未知的世界。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So contracts are very reassuring to me.
所以合同让我很放心。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to talk about the contract of marriage first.
我想先谈谈婚姻契约。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And what you think is going through people's mind when they decide to get married.
当人们决定结婚时，你的想法是什么？
There's the engagement, there's a lot of love, hopefully, there's a lot of love.
有订婚，有很多爱，希望有很多爱。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hopefully, there's a lot of dopamine.
希望有大量的多巴胺。
That's a wonderful thing.
这是一件美妙的事情。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Presumably, there's a lot of pheromones, there's a lot of-
想必，有很多信息素，有很多——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
emotional and biological stuff happening.
情感和生物方面的事情正在发生。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's the recognition from others.
还有别人的认可。
There's the party.
聚会来了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's the bachelor party, the bachelorette party-
有单身派对，单身派对——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the shower, the wedding.
淋浴，婚礼。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's so many things reinforcing this-
有很多事情可以强化这一点——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
bond.
债券。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And every one of the things you just named are awesome.
你刚才提到的每一件东西都很棒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
They're great.
他们很棒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Like those are all positive things.
这些都是积极的事情。
From the cake to the bachelor party, bachelorette party, to the dress, to the way we're going to have photos taken to commemorate the moment and sort of have this snapshot in time of who we were and who our families were.
从蛋糕到单身派对，单身派对，到礼服，到我们拍摄照片来纪念这一时刻的方式，以及及时拍下我们是谁和我们的家人是谁的快照。
Like all of that, how could you not cheer for that?
就像所有这一切，你怎么能不为此欢呼呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's phenomenal.
这是惊人的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
All of that sounds great.
所有这些听起来都很棒。
It's like, "Oh, I like this ice cream." What's not to like?
就像，“哦，我喜欢这个冰淇淋。”有什么不喜欢的？
It's ice cream.
这是冰淇淋。
Of course, you like ice cream.
当然，你喜欢冰淇淋。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
To me, it's celebration of life.
对我来说，这是对生命的庆祝。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's very different than the birth of a child, but it's this-
这和孩子的出生有很大不同，但就是这样——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
each one of those is a celebration of the life spirit.
每一件都是对生命精神的庆祝。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, and your place in-
是的，还有你的位置——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
the timeline and the history and the merging of families, the merging of clans.
时间线、历史以及家庭的合并、氏族的合并。
And sort of this, we're going to merge now, and maybe new life comes of that.
就这样，我们现在要合并了，也许新的生活就会随之而来。
And then that life merges with more life, and we become part of this chain.
然后那个生命与更多的生命融合在一起，我们就成为这个链条的一部分。
Like this is gorgeous stuff, and this is the fundamental building blocks of human civilization.
这真是华丽的东西，这是人类文明的基本组成部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
So it is perfectly understandable that we get absolutely intoxicated by the thought of it-
因此，我们完全沉醉于它的想法是完全可以理解的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
and that we get so hopped up.
我们变得如此兴奋。
But here's what people don't think about.
但这是人们没有想到的。
The term contract never gets into that discussion.
合同一词从未进入讨论。
I'm telling you right now, right now, someone's getting married somewhere, and the word contract's never come out of there.
我现在就告诉你，现在，有人在某个地方结婚，而合同这个词从来没有从那里出来过。
They don't view marriage as a contract.
他们不认为婚姻是一种契约。
The two things that I as a divorce lawyer I'm constantly thinking about is marriage as an economy and marriage as a contract.
作为一名离婚律师，我经常思考的两件事是婚姻作为一种经济和婚姻作为一种契约。
And those are two, the minute you say that, people assume you don't believe in or experience emotionally any of those other beautiful things you just said.
这是两件事，当你说出这句话的那一刻，人们就会认为你不相信或在情感上经历过你刚才所说的任何其他美好的事情。
And I think 90%- Of the appeal of my media work in this chapter of my life has been that people go, "Oh, a divorce lawyer.
我认为在我生命的这一章中，我的媒体工作的吸引力的 90% 是人们会说：“哦，离婚律师。
This is just going to be a guy talking about how marriage is the worst thing ever." And in reality, I think what I'm saying is, "Look, this is amazing.
这只是一个人在谈论婚姻是有史以来最糟糕的事情。”事实上，我想我想说的是，“看，这太棒了。
This is wonderful.
这太棒了。
Why wouldn't you fall in love?
你为什么不去恋爱呢？
Why wouldn't you have pair bonds?
为什么不建立配对债券？
Why wouldn't you consider locking in with another person and say..." But my God, be honest with yourself about the risks involved, be honest with yourself about the ways you can hedge that risk, and be honest with yourself about the contract and the economy.
你为什么不考虑锁定另一个人并说……”但是我的上帝，对自己诚实地对待所涉及的风险，诚实地对待自己如何对冲风险，并对自己诚实地对待合同和经济。
Because those are two things that I do not think that there is anything unromantic, I don't think it takes away from the romance or the beauty of a thing.
因为这两件事我不认为有什么不浪漫的事情，我不认为它会剥夺事物的浪漫或美丽。
I often say my favorite poem is a poem by Joseph Brodsky called "A Song," and he wrote it when his wife passed away, and it's a beautiful poem about love and loss.
我经常说我最喜欢的诗是约瑟夫·布罗茨基的一首诗，名为《一首歌》，是他在妻子去世时写的，这是一首关于爱与失落的美丽诗。
And the sort of refrain of the poem is, "I wish you were here, dear.
这首诗的副歌是：“我希望你在这里，亲爱的。
I wish you were here, dear.
我希望你在这里，亲爱的。
I wish you were here.
我希望你在这儿。
I wish we sat in the car and you sat near." It's this beautiful poem.
我希望我们坐在车里，而你坐在附近。”这就是这首美丽的诗。
And one of the lines is, "I wish you were here, dear.
其中一句是：“亲爱的，我希望你在这里。
I wish you were here.
我希望你在这儿。
I wish I knew no astronomy when stars appear." And I remember the first time I read that line thinking, "Oh, that's so beautiful," because once you know astronomy, there's something less magical about the stars.
我希望当星星出现时我不懂天文学。”我记得第一次读到这句话时我想，“哦，那太美了”，因为一旦你了解了天文学，星星就不再那么神奇了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is there?
有吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, I don't know.
嗯，我不知道。
See, I don't believe it has to be that way.
看，我不相信事情一定是这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I don't either.
我也不。
The great Richard Feynman, Nobel Prize-winning physicist of "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!" fame, said that understanding things at a reductionist level added to his sense of beauty with the physical world.
伟大的理查德·费曼，诺贝尔物理学奖得主，《费曼先生，你肯定在开玩笑！》名声大噪，他说，在还原论层面上理解事物增加了他对物质世界的美感。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I think it can.
我认为可以。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's my sense of biology and physiology-
这就是我对生物学和生理学的理解——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and what I know of psychology.
以及我对心理学的了解。
Understanding the deeper layers adds to my sense of wonder.
了解更深层次的内容增加了我的好奇心。
But I acknowledge and agree with you completely that for most people, when we think about all those things around marriage, the engagement, the wedding-
但我完全承认并同意你的观点，对于大多数人来说，当我们考虑所有有关婚姻、订婚、婚礼的事情时——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the party, they all imply a ton of trust.
聚会，他们都意味着极大的信任。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I believe in you.
我相信你。
I have faith in you.
我对你有信心。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm going to merge lives with you.
我要与你融为一体。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The word contract implies somewhere in there a lack of trust.
契约这个词暗示着某种地方缺乏信任。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I gave this little anecdote about something very different than marriage, right?
我讲了一个与婚姻截然不同的小轶事，对吗？
A business contract with my business partner-
与我的商业伙伴的商业合同-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where when they said, "Oh, you need to have a formal contract."
当他们说：“哦，你需要一份正式的合同。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There is something about that that implies-
这其中有一些暗示——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that things could go wrong.
事情可能会出错。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or that there will be unforeseen circumstances that our verbal contract-
或者会出现不可预见的情况，我们的口头合同——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
can't anticipate-
无法预料-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and won't allow us to navigate-
并且不允许我们导航-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
as business partners.
作为商业伙伴。
And there's, again, far and away-
再说一次，很远很远——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
different, arguably lesser example than a marriage contract-
不同的，可以说是比婚姻契约更小的例子——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
which is a much bigger life milestone.
这是一个更大的人生里程碑。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But I think a point you're making that I think I would slightly reframe is the following.
但我认为你提出的一个观点我认为我会稍微重新构建如下。
There is a contract that binds you and your business partner.
有一份合同对您和您的业务伙伴具有约束力。
It was written by the legislature of the state in which you reside.
它是由您所居住州的立法机关编写的。
Okay?
好的？
So do you want your relationship with this person governed by a contract you didn't write, you had no input in, and the government can change without your consent or knowledge?
那么，你是否希望你与这个人的关系受到一份不是你写的、你没有参与、政府可以在你同意或不知情的情况下改变的合同管辖？
And by the way, once they've changed it, you can't say, "Oh, I don't like the new rules, so I don't want those to apply." Yeah, too late.
顺便说一句，一旦他们改变了规则，你就不能说：“哦，我不喜欢新规则，所以我不希望这些规则适用。”是啊，太晚了。
So I tell everyone, "You have a prenup." Every married person has a prenup.
所以我告诉大家，“你们有婚前协议。”每个已婚人士都有一份婚前协议。
It was either written by the government or written by the two people who allegedly love each other more than the other eight billion other options in the world.
它要么是由政府写的，要么是由两个据称比世界上其他 80 亿其他选择更爱彼此的人写的。
Now, if you ask me, who is going to write a better contract, unnamed politicians who are subject to being elected and unelected, or two people who have an abundance of optimism towards each other?
现在，如果你问我，谁会写一份更好的合同，是那些可能当选和不当选的无名政客，还是两个对彼此抱有极大乐观态度的人？
There's a rule set.
有一套规则。
And if you're signing up for a rule set you wrote or co-authored with your partner, I think you're in a better place than saying, "Let's trust it to the government." I have to tell you, I've been to the DMV.
如果您签署了自己编写或与合作伙伴共同编写的规则集，我认为您比说“让我们相信政府”更好。我必须告诉你，我去过DMV。
I've never walked into the DMV and thought, "These people should be in charge of everything.
我从来没有走进DMV 并想：“这些人应该负责一切。
This is great.
这太棒了。
They have got it down.
他们已经把它记下来了。
They should be in charge of my marriage.
他们应该负责我的婚姻。
They should be in charge of everything, my business dealings.
他们应该负责一切，包括我的生意往来。
They should be the ones who make the rules because they're clearly so together in their thinking." I don't feel that way.
他们应该是制定规则的人，因为他们的想法显然非常一致。”我不这么认为。
I feel like there is tremendous value in the level of trust and optimism that two people at the beginning of a venture, whether that venture is a marriage or whether that venture is a business venture.
我觉得两个人在创业之初的信任和乐观程度具有巨大的价值，无论该企业是婚姻还是商业企业。
While we're in this heady space of optimism, excitement, trust in each other, that's the time to say, "Hey, we're going to disagree about something at some point." It happens.
当我们处于乐观、兴奋、相互信任的令人陶醉的状态时，就该说“嘿，我们在某些时候会在某些事情上存在分歧。”它发生了。
It'll be my fault.
这将是我的错。
I say dumb shit.
我说蠢话。
I say dumb shit all the time.
我总是说蠢话。
So I'll probably say something that's going to upset you.
所以我可能会说一些让你不高兴的话。
So why would you learn how to fight while you're in a fight?
那么为什么要在打架的时候学习如何打架呢？
Learn how to fight before you get in a fight.
在打架之前先了解一下如何打架。
Learn the rule set.
了解规则集。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Have a discussion about, "Hey, if we disagree, what's the best way?
进行讨论，“嘿，如果我们不同意，最好的方法是什么？
Do you need a minute?
你需要一分钟吗？
Do you need some time to yourself to cool off?
您需要一些时间让自己冷静下来吗？
Or are you the kind of person that's like, 'No, we got to sort this out right now.
或者你是那种会说‘不，我们现在必须解决这个问题’的人。
I can't go to bed angry.
我不能生气地睡觉。
I'll fester.'" So that, to me, the right mindset is not faith and trust or contracts.
我会溃烂的。”因此，对我来说，正确的心态不是信仰、信任或合同。
I think that's the totally wrong way to frame it.
我认为这是完全错误的框架方式。
I think the right way to frame it is there's a contract.
我认为正确的框架方式是签订合同。
Whether you want to call it a contract or not, just like there's an economy.
无论你是否愿意称其为契约，就像经济一样。
An economy is an exchange of value.
经济是一种价值交换。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
This many bananas is worth this many coconuts.
这么多香蕉抵得上这么多椰子。
Because if it was, how many bananas will you trade me for bananas?
因为如果是的话，你会用多少香蕉来换我香蕉？
That's not an economy.
那不是一个经济体。
We're not bringing the same thing to the table.
我们不会把同样的事情带到谈判桌上。
So it's the same thing.
所以这是同样的事情。
Why is it a dirty word to say, "Hey, I'm marrying you.
为什么说“嘿，我要嫁给你”是一个肮脏的词。
Why?
为什么？
What do I bring to your life?
我能为你的生活带来什么？
What do I mean to you?
我对你来说意味着什么？
What value do I present to you?
我给你带来什么价值？
And what value do you present to me so I know what to protect and preserve, so I know when that slips to start talking to you about it." And by the way, you can tell me and remind me when, "Hey, this thing I loved about you has changed." So, you talked about all these good things about your business partner, like, "Oh, he has this vision," or, "He has this patience," or, "He has this organizational skill, and he makes up for some things that I don't have." If you just said, "Oh, yeah, he has the exact same characteristics as me," it's like, well, what do you need him then?
你向我提供了什么价值，这样我就知道要保护和保存什么，这样我就知道什么时候会开始和你谈论它。”顺便说一句，你可以告诉我并提醒我，“嘿，我喜欢你的这一点已经改变了。”所以，你谈到了你的商业伙伴的所有这些优点，比如，“哦，他有这个愿景”，或者，“他有这个耐心”，或者，“他有这种组织能力，他弥补了一些我没有的东西。”如果你只是说，“哦，是的，他和我有完全相同的特征，”那就好像，那么，你需要他什么呢？
It's many hands light work maybe, but ideally you have the Steve Jobs and the Steve Wozniak.
也许需要很多人帮忙，但理想情况下你有史蒂夫·乔布斯和史蒂夫·沃兹尼亚克。
Either of whom without the other would've been kind of, "Eh." But together, it's like lightning in a bottle.
如果没有另一个，他们中的任何一个都会有点“呃”。但放在一起，就像瓶子里的闪电。
So, I just genuinely think framing this slightly differently and saying there's going to be a rule set, so we are the best people to write that rule set.
所以，我真的认为这个框架略有不同，并说将会有一个规则集，所以我们是编写该规则集的最佳人选。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
That's the way to look at it.
这就是看待它的方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
The way you are framing the contract of marriage and prenups, I love it, because you're putting a positive emotional lens on it, right?
我喜欢你制定婚姻和婚前协议的方式，因为你在其中注入了积极的情感视角，对吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Two people who love each other, therefore, let's discuss the contract of love and marriage.
两个相爱的人，因此，我们来讨论一下爱情和婚姻的契约吧。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Two people that are committed to creating, perhaps, children together and a whole life together-
两个人致力于共同创造，也许，孩子，甚至共同的一生——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
braiding together lineages.
将血统编织在一起。
Let's get a contract to really solidify this.
让我们签订一份合同来真正巩固这一点。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
What do we owe each other?
我们彼此欠什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
What do we owe each other?
我们彼此欠什么？
That's a huge piece for me.
这对我来说是一个巨大的部分。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's like, why are we doing this?
就像，我们为什么要这样做？
What is the problem we seek to solve, or what is the value we add to each other's lives?
我们寻求解决的问题是什么，或者我们为彼此的生活增添了什么价值？
That's such a beautiful question.
这是一个非常美丽的问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And by the way, it's an invitation to such an intimate discussion.
顺便说一句，这是一次如此亲密的讨论的邀请。
These are the things that you make me feel.
这些都是你让我感受到的。
These are the things you do that make me feel that way.
这些是你做的事情让我有这种感觉。
You make me feel loved.
你让我感到被爱。
Really?
真的吗？
When?
什么时候？
When you remember that tea that I like, and you make sure that it's here.
当你记得我喜欢的茶时，你会确保它就在这里。
Or, oh, when you remembered it was my sister's birthday and sent her a text-
或者，哦，当你想起今天是我姐姐的生日并给她发了一条短信时——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
and then sent me a screenshot.
然后给我发了一张截图。
These are these dumb little things that make us feel so loved and seen, so why wouldn't we embrace an opportunity to say to this person, "By the way, do you know what I love about you?
这些愚蠢的小事让我们感到如此被爱和被关注，所以我们为什么不抓住机会对这个人说：“顺便说一句，你知道我爱你什么吗？
Do you know what you do that makes me feel so loved and makes me feel so in love with you?" Because that's a worthy conversation.
你知道你做了什么让我感到如此被爱，让我如此爱你吗？”因为这是一次有价值的对话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The way you're framing this, I think, is entirely different than how most people would envision a discussion about a prenup.
我认为，你构建这一点的方式与大多数人想象的有关婚前协议的讨论方式完全不同。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I think that's true, yeah.
我认为这是真的，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which I really appreciate, and I know the audience appreciates, too, because you're putting a different lens on things.
我真的很欣赏这一点，而且我知道观众也很欣赏，因为你用不同的视角来看待事物。
I'm going to just put on my hat as a neuroscientist and biologist for a moment.
我将暂时扮演神经科学家和生物学家的角色。
I think there are certain words that people, for whatever reason, consider kind of a buzzkill.
我认为有些词，无论出于何种原因，人们都会认为是一种杀戮。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We're talking about pheromones and love and children-
我们正在谈论信息素、爱情和孩子——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and romance and-
和浪漫和-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
sex and vacations and honeymoons and-
性爱、假期、蜜月以及——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
parties, and then someone says, "Contract."
聚会，然后有人说，“合同。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And somebody says, "Finances," which-
有人说“财务”，其中——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
maybe that turns certain people on.
也许这会让某些人兴奋。
I guess people in the finance world, it probably turns them on.
我想金融界的人可能会因此而兴奋。
But do you get where I'm coming from?
但你明白我从哪里来吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I do, yeah.
我愿意，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have to assume it's a different brain circuit-
我必须假设这是一个不同的大脑回路-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I think it probably is
我想可能是
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for most people.
对于大多数人来说。
Whereas what you're doing is you're coming at this from a different perspective-
而你正在做的是从不同的角度来看待这个问题——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
which is part of the reason why you're here-
这也是你来这里的部分原因-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is that you're saying this discussion around a prenup contract can potentially shed more light into the nature of the bond, and maybe-
你是说围绕婚前协议的讨论可能会更多地阐明债券的性质，也许-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Of course
当然
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
even deepen the connection.
甚至加深联系。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Of course.
当然。
And I will tell you, I've been doing prenuptial agreements for 25 years for clients, and I usually end up having a very good relationship with the person I do a prenup with because you're talking a lot about their fears, their hopes.
我会告诉你，我为客户签订婚前协议已经有 25 年了，而且我通常最终会与我签订婚前协议的人保持良好的关系，因为你会谈论很多他们的恐惧和希望。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is it one person or both?
是一个人还是两个人？
I wanted to ask this.
我想问这个。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
One.
一。
One at a time.
一次一个。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So each of you has your own lawyer.
所以你们每个人都有自己的律师。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Each of you has your own attorney.
你们每个人都有自己的律师。
You cannot, as a lawyer, represent both people because they have what's called potentially adverse interests.
作为一名律师，你不能代表这两个人，因为他们有所谓的潜在不利利益。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And what if one person has substantially more income to hire a-
如果一个人有更多的收入来雇用一名——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
better lawyer?
更好的律师？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Assuming that more money gets you a better lawyer-
假设更多的钱可以给你带来更好的律师——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I have to assume-
我必须假设——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
on average it does-
平均而言，它确实-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
than the other.
比另一个。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
It's unfortunate.
很不幸。
It's an unfortunate thing.
这是一件不幸的事。
One of the projects I've been involved in in the last couple of months is a website, trustedprenup.com.
过去几个月我参与的项目之一是一个网站，trustedprenup.com。
I worked with a couple of tech people to put together something that's going to democratize prenups, because up until now, prenups have been something that you spend five, 10, $15,000 for a traditional lawyer to draft for you, and then your fiancé brings it to an attorney to review, and then they want to make revisions, and it sort of walks into this adversarial process, as opposed to democratizing prenups.
我和几个技术人员合作，整理了一些将使婚前协议民主化的东西，因为到目前为止，婚前协议一直是你花五、十、一万五千美元请传统律师为你起草的东西，然后你的未婚夫把它交给律师审查，然后他们想要进行修改，这有点进入了这个对抗性的过程，而不是民主化婚前协议。
So what we are trying to do is leverage technological innovation, AI.
所以我们正在努力做的是利用技术创新，人工智能。
My hundreds of prenups I've drafted, we fed into this to create the ability for you to go online and to create a prenup for in the realm of $600, $700.
我起草了数百份婚前协议，我们将其纳入其中，以便让您能够上网并创建 600 美元、700 美元的婚前协议。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, that would be a game changer.
哦，那将改变游戏规则。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's really an opportunity.
这确实是一个机会。
But the purpose of it, as far as I'm concerned, is not just to democratize prenups, which I think we have to do, but to really reframe the way we look at it.
但就我而言，其目的不仅仅是使婚前协议民主化（我认为我们必须这样做），而是真正重新构建我们看待婚前协议的方式。
Because people come in all the time and they're like, "Well, I don't know if I need a prenup because I'm not wealthy." And you say, "Well, you're still going to have a rule set applied to your marriage." And actually, if you're super wealthy, like most of my clients, they could afford to buy six more houses.
因为人们总是进来，他们会说，“好吧，我不知道我是否需要婚前协议，因为我并不富有。”你说：“好吧，你的婚姻仍然需要遵守一套规则。”事实上，如果你像我的大多数客户一样超级富有，他们就有能力再购买六栋房子。
"You keep the house, I'll buy another house down the street, and then we'll buy another house for the kids, and then we'll visit with them in that house." That's actually called nesting.
“你保留房子，我会在街上再买一所房子，然后我们会为孩子们再买一所房子，然后我们会在那所房子里拜访他们。”这其实就是所谓的嵌套。
That's a thing.
那是一件事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's nesting?
这就是筑巢？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Nesting is when you each-
筑巢是当你们每个-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When I was coming up, nesting meant something very different.
当我来的时候，筑巢意味着一些非常不同的东西。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No, nesting now is when you each have your own home, and then one home is just where the kids live, and instead of doing a custodial rotation where the kids go back and forth between homes, the kids have a home, and the parent who has parenting access during that time is in the nest with the kids.
不，现在的筑巢是指你们每个人都有自己的家，然后一个家就是孩子们居住的地方，而不是进行孩子们在两个家之间来回的监护轮换，孩子们有一个家，并且在那段时间有育儿权限的父母与孩子们一起在巢中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When I was in college, nesting was when you got a tablecloth.
当我上大学时，筑巢就是你有一块桌布。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Nice.
不错。
Nice.
好的。
Yeah.
是的。
The rich divorce in different ways than the normal general populace.
富人离婚的方式与普通民众不同。
And so that's why we're trying to say, "Look, democratize this, bring this to be...
所以这就是为什么我们想说，“看，让这个民主化，让它成为......
Let people develop a rule set." Because especially, too, when you have scarcity, most people can't afford to give away one half of everything they have and still have enough to function.
让人们制定一套规则。”因为尤其是当资源匮乏时，大多数人无法承担放弃他们所拥有的一切的一半的费用，但仍然有足够的钱来维持生活。
Most people are going paycheck to paycheck.
大多数人都是靠工资支付的。
Most people are a couple of paychecks off from being in bankruptcy if things don't go the right way.
如果事情进展不顺利，大多数人都可能会破产。
So when they divorce, and now we have two electric bills and two internet bills and two...
所以当他们离婚时，现在我们有两张电费单、两张互联网账单和两张……
That's something most people can't do.
这是大多数人做不到的。
So all the more reason for people to have a rule set that the two of them created, again, when they were feeling positive and benevolent and optimistic towards each other, and they were trying to protect you.
因此，人们更有理由拥有一套由他们两人创建的规则，再次，当他们对彼此感到积极、仁慈和乐观时，他们试图保护你。
Because to me, personally, I don't know how you can feel loved if you don't feel safe.
因为就我个人而言，如果你没有安全感，我不知道如何能感受到被爱。
I think you have to feel safe, emotionally safe, physically safe.
我认为你必须感到安全，情感上安全，身体上安全。
If you're afraid of your partner emotionally, physically, how can you really feel loved?
如果你在情感上、身体上都害怕你的伴侣，你怎么能真正感受到被爱呢？
So to me, the prenup is an invitation to, A, can we talk about hard things?
所以对我来说，婚前协议是一个邀请，A，我们可以谈论一些困难的事情吗？
Because I'll tell you right now, when somebody says to me, "Well, I would do a prenup.
因为我现在就告诉你，当有人对我说：“好吧，我会签订婚前协议。
I know it would be good, but that's just going to be a hard conversation." Don't get married.
我知道这会很好，但这将是一场艰难的对话。”别结婚。
If you can't have hard conversations with a person, you have absolutely no business marrying them.
如果你不能与一个人进行艰难的对话，你绝对没有资格与他们结婚。
It's good for me as a future income stream, but I'm telling you, I don't think it's a good idea.
作为未来的收入来源，这对我来说是件好事，但我告诉你，我认为这不是一个好主意。
You're going to have to talk about hard things.
你将不得不谈论困难的事情。
And you're going to have to have uncomfortable truths instead of comfortable lies to this person.
你必须向这个人提供令人不安的真相，而不是令人舒服的谎言。
So I'm a big fan of early on in the process, having those conversations.
所以我非常喜欢在这个过程的早期进行这些对话。
And again, it doesn't all have to be the conversa-- Like when you talk about your will, that's a hard conversation.
再说一次，这并不一定都是对话——就像当你谈论你的意愿时，这是一场艰难的对话。
There's no upside to being dead, other than being off social media.
除了远离社交媒体之外，死了没有任何好处。
There's no upside to it.
这没有什么好处。
So I understand why people are like, "It's really hard to think about if I die and if both of us die, what do we do with the kids?" That's a hard conversation.
所以我理解为什么人们会说，“真的很难想象如果我死了，如果我们都死了，我们该怎么办孩子们？”这是一次艰难的谈话。
But look, if we break up, what would you need to feel safe?
但是你看，如果我们分手了，你需要什么才能感到安全？
There's a line from a Prince song, "If I Was Your Girlfriend," and it is, "Would you run to me if somebody hurt you even if that somebody was me?" And I think there's something really sweet about saying to someone like, "Hey, if I hurt you, how can I still have you feel safe?
Prince 的歌曲《如果我是你的女朋友》中有一句歌词是：“如果有人伤害你，即使那个人是我，你会跑向我吗？”我认为对这样的人说这样的话真的很甜蜜：“嘿，如果我伤害了你，我怎么能让你感到安全呢？
How can I have you still feel loved?" I don't think that when I meet someone and their exes are like they just have painted them as a villain, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and that's frequent.
我怎样才能让你仍然感受到被爱呢？”我不认为当我遇到某人和他们的前任时，他们只是把他们描绘成一个恶棍，没有任何救赎的品质，而这种情况很常见。
It's frequent people do that.
人们经常这样做。
And to me, that says a lot about the core values of both of these people.
对我来说，这充分说明了这两个人的核心价值观。
I think there's real value in saying to someone early on, like, "Hey, if I hurt you, what are you going to need from me?
我认为尽早对某人说：“嘿，如果我伤害了你，你需要我做什么？
What do we need to be made whole?
我们需要什么才能变得完整？
How can we both feel safe in this relationship?" That's what those discussions are about.
我们怎样才能在这段关系中感到安全？”这就是这些讨论的目的。
Throwing the words contracts, throwing the words economy in there, I understand.
我明白，把合同、经济这两个词放进去。
I think you're totally right.
我认为你是完全正确的。
There's something about those words.
这句话里有一些东西。
But I think reality can be beautiful.
但我觉得现实也可以是美好的。
I don't think you have to CGI everything for it to be perfect.
我认为你不必将所有内容都进行 CGI 处理才能使其完美。
I think it's perfect.
我认为这是完美的。
I think it's already perfect.
我觉得已经很完美了。
There's something very perfect about how imperfect and flawed and frightened we are, and I think there's something really beautiful about finding someone that you can be that with.
我们是多么的不完美、有缺陷和害怕，这其中有一些非常完美的东西，我认为找到一个可以和你在一起的人真的很美好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I don't think I can learn everything I need to know about myself from myself.
我认为我无法从自己身上学到有关自己的一切。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I think I need someone there, ideally someone who really loves me and is cheering for me and sees my blind spots.
我想我需要有人在那里，最好是一个真正爱我、为我加油、能看到我的盲点的人。
And I think the conversation about a prenup, that's what that conversation should be.
我认为关于婚前协议的对话应该是这样的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's fantastic.
太棒了。
I love the way you lean into life in all its light and shadows and say, "Okay, let's accept all of that right off the bat and figure out what's going to give this the highest probability of working."
我喜欢你在生活的光与影中融入的方式，并说：“好吧，让我们立即接受所有这些，并找出最有可能实现这一点的方法。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, it's reality.
嗯，这就是现实。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've never thought about prenups as a way to bolster the probability of the marriage working.
我从来没有想过把婚前协议作为提高婚姻成功可能性的一种方式。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, I'm telling you, and I got sidetracked as I tend to do, but I've done probably hundreds if not thousands of prenups over 25 years.
好吧，我告诉你，我像往常一样偏离了方向，但在 25 年里，我可能已经完成了数百甚至数千份婚前协议。
I think there are maybe five people that I did their divorce after they had a prenup.
我想大概有五个人在签订婚前协议后我就离婚了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really?
真的吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think people need to hear that again.
我认为人们需要再次听到这一点。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I think that, yeah.
我认为，是的。
So I've done hundreds, if not at least 1,000 prenups in 25 years.
所以，在 25 年里，我已经完成了数百份（如果不是至少 1,000 份）婚前协议。
I probably do two or three prenups a week.
我可能每周做两到三次婚前协议。
So I do a lot of prenups.
所以我做了很多婚前协议。
Most of my colleagues do a lot of prenups.
我的大多数同事都做过很多婚前协议。
And I've never asked my colleagues this, but usually when you do a prenup, you have a good relationship with the person by the time it's finished.
我从来没有问过我的同事这个问题，但通常当你签订婚前协议时，在协议完成时你和对方已经建立了良好的关系。
It's a transaction people feel good about.
这是一种人们感觉良好的交易。
It's a divorce.
这是离婚。
Sometimes you finish a divorce and the person's like, "Oh my God, I never want to see you again because you remind me of this really dark chapter." But prenups, it's usually a very friendly transaction.
有时你离婚后，那个人会说，“天啊，我再也不想见到你了，因为你让我想起了这段非常黑暗的章节。”但婚前协议通常是一项非常友好的交易。
It's positive.
这是积极的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is surprising to me.
这让我感到惊讶。
So people who prenup tend not to break up.
所以婚前协议的人往往不会分手。
Yes, that rhymes.
是的，这押韵。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think many people will be very surprised to hear that.
我想很多人听到这个消息都会感到非常惊讶。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I think it's self-selecting.
我认为这是自我选择。
I think the kind of people who can have a conversation that you need to have in order to discuss and negotiate, and again, there's another term, I don't think it's the right term, negotiate a prenup.
我认为那种人可以进行对话，以便进行讨论和谈判，而且，还有另一个术语，我认为这是不正确的术语，即协商婚前协议。
Negotiate gives the impression it's like you're buying a car.
谈判给人的印象就像是在买一辆车。
The kind of people who can have the conversations you need to have in order to have a prenuptial agreement, I think are the kind of people that are going to be successfully married, period.
我认为，那些能够进行必要的对话以达成婚前协议的人，就是那些能够成功结婚的人。
There's something about, that I'm not going to talk about a prenup because I don't want to talk about the possibility that anything could ever go wrong with this thing.
有件事我不会谈论婚前协议，因为我不想谈论这件事可能出问题的可能性。
It's perfect, it's wonderful, it's cake, it's roses, it's nothing but romance and sex and it's wonderful.
它是完美的，它是美妙的，它是蛋糕，它是玫瑰，它只是浪漫和性，它是美妙的。
Okay.
好的。
Listen, falling feels like flying for a little while.
听着，坠落的感觉就像飞了一会儿。
And then you hit the ground and it is waiting for you.
然后你落地，它就在等着你。
And if the first time you ever think about what legal rights and obligations do I have is when you're in my office, you're already screwed.
如果你第一次想到我有哪些法律权利和义务是当你在我的办公室里时，你就已经完蛋了。
You're already screwed.
你已经完蛋了。
You did nothing to prepare emotionally, financially, nothing.
你没有做任何情感上、经济上的准备，什么都没有。
So there's something about the imagination, right?
那么想象力是有的，对吧？
If you're just the kind of person who's like, "I don't even want to talk." I actually met, they'll remain nameless, but it was a neighbor, and every once in a while I get it in my head that I'm going to try to be a more social person.
如果你就是那种“我什至不想说话”的人。我确实见过面，他们将保持匿名，但那是一个邻居，每隔一段时间我就会想到我要努力成为一个更善于社交的人。
So I'm like, "Oh, I should invite the neighbor over for a drink," a couple.
所以我想，“哦，我应该邀请邻居过来喝一杯”，一对夫妇。
And they don't live near me anymore, so I can get away with it now.
而且他们不再住在我附近了，所以我现在可以逃脱惩罚了。
But I invited these people over for a drink, and they came over, lovely people.
但我邀请这些人过来喝一杯，他们过来了，可爱的人。
But at some point she said, "Oh, I don't know how you do what you do.
但在某个时候，她说：“哦，我不知道你是如何做你所做的事情的。
We don't allow the D-word in our house." And I was like, "What do you mean?" She's like, "No, no, you're not allowed to say the word divorce in our house." And she said it like divorce like she was saying Voldemort.
我们不允许D字进入我们的房子。”我当时想，“你是什么意思？”她说：“不，不，你不可以在我们家里说离婚这个词。”她说得就像离婚一样，就像她说伏地魔一样。
She was like, "We don't say the D-word." And I was like
她说，“我们不说D字。”我当时就像
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I thought to myself, if only it was that easy.
我心想，要是这么简单就好了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
By the way, got divorced three years later.
顺便说一下，三年后离婚了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really?
真的吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You saved me the asking.
你省去了我的询问。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And a knock-down, drag-out, brutal, both of them tried to call me and hire me.
他们俩都试图打电话给我并雇用我，这是一种击倒、拖延、残酷的方式。
And I will not represent people that I know in any capacity.
我不会以任何身份代表我认识的人。
And I just remember thinking, that is such a delusion, that I'm never going to say the word.
我只记得我当时想，这真是一个错觉，我永远不会说这个词。
What are you, my great-grandmother?
我的曾祖母，你是什么？
You have to say cancer like this, because if you say cancer it, like of speaking volume, suddenly tumors will develop.
你必须这样说“癌症”，因为如果你说“癌症”，就像说话的音量一样，突然就会出现肿瘤。
Are you that superstitious?
你就那么迷信吗？
Do you believe in Chewbacca, too?
你也相信楚巴卡吗？
That's crazy.
太疯狂了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Superstition is a form of paranoia.
迷信是偏执狂的一种形式。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, of course.
是的，当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a mild form of paranoia.
这是一种轻微的偏执狂。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Of course.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it's a form of paranoia.
但这是一种偏执狂。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Of course.
当然。
Yeah.
是的。
I say all the time that I think most of our attitudes about marriage have been just handed down.
我一直说，我认为我们对婚姻的大多数态度只是传承下来的。
This is something that, marriage, you could be the most modern, Bella Abzug feminist person, and a lot of women are like, "Oh, yeah, I still want my dad to walk me down the aisle and give me away." Give you away?
这就是婚姻，你可能是最现代的、贝拉·阿布祖格女权主义者，很多女人都会说，“哦，是的，我仍然希望我爸爸陪我走上红毯，然后把我送走。”把你送走？
Seriously?
严重地？
You're a C-suite executive at a software company, and he's going to trade you for what?
你是一家软件公司的高级管理人员，他要用你换什么？
Goats?
山羊？
This is going to be because you are your father's property, and now you will be the property, and he will give you away to your husband, and you'll now be his property.
这是因为你是你父亲的财产，现在你将成为他的财产，他会把你交给你的丈夫，你现在将成为他的财产。
That's where that tradition comes from, gang.
这就是这个传统的来源，帮派。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What do you think the psychological underpinnings of what you're describing are about?
您认为您所描述的心理基础是什么？
Is it some sort of internal validation of worth, external validation of worth?
是某种内部价值验证、外部价值验证吗？
None of it computes for me when I look at, like you said, let's say, these are extreme examples-
当我看到时，就像你说的，让我们说，这些都是极端的例子——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but C-suite female executive.
但C级女性高管。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or a founder also.
或者也是创始人。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
These exist.
这些都存在。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm from the Bay Area.
我来自湾区。
There are plenty of them.
他们有很多。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I've represented a few of them.
我曾代表其中一些人。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
And typically, they will take their soon-to-be husband's last name.
通常，她们会随未婚丈夫的姓氏。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
Not always.
并非总是如此。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's far more common than men taking-
这比男性服用更常见-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
their wife's last name.
他们妻子的姓氏。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Far more.
远不止这些。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Actually, I can't even think of a single instance.
事实上，我连一个例子都想不起来。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I've had a few that hyphenate.
我有一些连字符。
That's a new thing.
这是一个新事物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, evolutionary biologists do that.
哦，进化生物学家就是这么做的。
It used to be that all the evolutionary biologists did that.
过去所有的进化生物学家都是这样做的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Most give the kids the husband's name.
大多数人都给孩子起丈夫的名字。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh.
哦。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Most give the kids the husband's name.
大多数人都给孩子起丈夫的名字。
And again, I don't know if that's a male thing that men are like, "That's my kid.
再说一遍，我不知道这是否是男人的性格，“那是我的孩子。
They're going to have my name." I really don't know.
他们将会以我的名字命名。”我真的不知道。
But yeah, a lot of the feminism gets thrown out the window.
但是，是的，很多女权主义都被抛到了九霄云外。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Another one is that in divorces, I've observed this, I don't have statistics on this, but women will keep their ex-husband's last name-
另外一个是，在离婚中，我观察到了这一点，我没有这方面的统计数据，但是女性会保留前夫的姓氏——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because what I was told is they want to have the same last name as their kids.
因为我被告知他们希望与孩子有相同的姓氏。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
That's pretty common.
这很常见。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which is understandable.
这是可以理解的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But of course, the kids could switch last names.
但当然，孩子们可以改变姓氏。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It eliminates a certain level of confusion because at school, to say-
它消除了一定程度的混乱，因为在学校，可以说——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
"This is my name," and the kid's name is different.
“这是我的名字，”孩子的名字不一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So as long as it's through the kids, it makes sense.
因此，只要是通过孩子们，它就有意义。
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
So that piece I get, I absolutely get.
所以我得到的那件作品，我绝对得到了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, that makes sense.
是的，这是有道理的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And by the way, I have clients, because you don't have to change your name back, but you have the right to.
顺便说一句，我有客户，因为你不必改回你的名字，但你有权利这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I have male clients who want their name back.
我有一些男性客户想要回自己的名字。
Like, "I want her to no longer be allowed to use that name."
就像，“我希望她不再被允许使用这个名字。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Are you serious?
你是认真的吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I have to explain to them you're-
我必须向他们解释你是-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's kind of funny to me
这对我来说有点好笑
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
you can't force her to not have your name.
你不能强迫她不知道你的名字。
He's like, "Well, that's my name." And I'm like, "You understand, as long as you're not doing it for the intent of defrauding creditors," I could change my name to Andrew Huberman tomorrow if I want to.
他说：“好吧，那是我的名字。”我说，“你明白，只要你不是为了欺骗债权人而这样做，”如果我愿意的话，我明天可以把我的名字改成安德鲁·休伯曼。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
As long as I'm not doing it to defraud my creditors.
只要我这样做不是为了欺骗我的债权人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You'd get a lot more problems than it's worth.
你会遇到比其价值更多的问题。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Be delightful.
令人愉快。
I'd be Mrs. Huberman.
我会是胡伯曼夫人。
It's very fun.
非常有趣。
It's very fun.
非常有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh my goodness.
天哪。
No, you'd be Andrew Huberman, and that comes with a certain number of liabilities as well.
不，你是安德鲁·休伯曼，这也会带来一定数量的责任。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, that sounds exhausting.
是啊，听起来很累。
I don't think I could handle it.
我想我应付不了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Full-time fun.
全职乐趣。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I can't do that.
我不能那样做。
I can't bench that much either, I don't think.
我也不能坐那么多板凳，我不这么认为。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's right.
没错。
Full-time fun.
全职乐趣。
No, just kidding.
不，只是开玩笑。
In all seriousness, wow, people have asked for their name back?
说真的，哇，人们要求回他们的名字？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, they want her prohibited from having their name.
是的，他们希望禁止她使用他们的名字。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, goodness.
哦，天哪。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And even though the kids have that name.
即使孩子们有这个名字。
But again, that's that anger thing.
但话又说回来，这就是愤怒。
That's just a pure expression of anger, and I get it.
这只是纯粹的愤怒表达，我明白。
A lot of what I do is sort of helping people get to the core of what are they really upset about, and that's a lot of what my job is.
我所做的很多事情都是帮助人们了解他们真正感到不安的核心问题，这就是我的大部分工作。
My undergraduate degree was in psychology.
我的本科学位是心理学。
My master's was in cultural anthropology, and specifically in the study of death and dying.
我的硕士学位是文化人类学，特别是对死亡和临终的研究。
And then my law degree, I wanted to be a divorce lawyer as soon as I started law school.
然后我获得了法律学位，我一进入法学院就想成为一名离婚律师。
And I think I used the psych degree as much as I used the law degree, because so much of what I do is just dealing with people when they're in this very heightened emotional state.
我认为我使用心理学学位和使用法律学位一样多，因为我所做的大部分工作只是在人们处于高度情绪状态时与他们打交道。
I'm a fan of faith, but just not blind faith.
我是信仰的拥护者，但不是盲目信仰。
I'm a fan of fairy tales.
我是童话故事的粉丝。
If the fairy tales inspire something in you, that's incredible.
如果童话故事激发了你的灵感，那就太不可思议了。
If you say to me, "Jim, I love 'Star Wars.' The struggle of the Jedi against the Empire, it inspires me to want to be a disciplined person, and to fight for good, and to not be afraid of evil, and to know." That's a beautiful story.
如果你对我说：“吉姆，我喜欢《星球大战》。”绝地武士对抗帝国的斗争，激励我要成为一个有纪律的人，为善而战，不畏恶，求知。”这是一个美丽的故事。
If you try to tell me Wookiees are real, though, we've got a problem, man.
不过，如果你试图告诉我伍基人是真实的，那么我们就有问题了，伙计。
You got to get checked out.
你得去检查一下。
That's not okay.
那不行。
That's not true.
那不是真的。
So the divorce rate's 56%.
所以离婚率为56%。
So 56% of the time, this technology fails.
因此，56% 的情况下，这项技术都会失败。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
56?
56？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
56, yeah.
56，是的。
It changes every year, but 56 is the divorce rate currently, okay?
每年都会变化，但目前的离婚率是56，好吗？
So 56% of marriages end in divorce.
所以56%的婚姻以离婚告终。
Now-
现在——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is that true, excuse me, in Europe as well, and South America as well, and Australia as well?
请问，在欧洲、南美、澳大利亚也是如此吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Every country, the statistics are different.
每个国家的统计数据都不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Continue to range?
继续范围？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
The United States, you can actually look this up online.
美国这个，你其实可以在网上查一下。
There's a running tally that's kept.
有一个保存的运行记录。
But the highest divorce rates are in, I believe Italy is currently winning that race.
但离婚率最高的是，我相信意大利目前正在赢得这场比赛。
Ireland was at the bottom because basically divorce was not possible in Ireland for an extended period of time.
爱尔兰排名垫底，因为在爱尔兰很长一段时间内基本上不可能离婚。
Countries that have a very strong underlying religious narrative, like Sharia law and things like that, obviously have a very low divorce rate.
那些有着非常强大的宗教叙事基础的国家，比如伊斯兰教法等，显然离婚率非常低。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But it varies.
但情况有所不同。
But countries that are, I don't want to say very modern-
但我不想说这些国家非常现代——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
where there's been a proliferation of social media, where there is an open information environment, so people can compare themselves to other people constantly.
社交媒体激增，信息环境开放，人们可以不断地将自己与其他人进行比较。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not North Korea.
不是朝鲜。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Not North Korea.
不是朝鲜。
Great example, yes.
很好的例子，是的。
That there is a sense of, because actually even North Korea has an underlying religious narrative.
这是有一种感觉的，因为实际上即使是朝鲜也有潜在的宗教叙事。
It's just that they've decided or they've been told their leader is a god.
只是他们已经决定，或者他们被告知他们的领袖是神。
So I think when you don't have A core foundational religious narrative that prohibits divorce as part of its structure, then you're left to people's desires to some degree, and the cultural foundations of it, and tradition, right?
所以我认为，当你没有一个禁止离婚作为其结构一部分的核心基础宗教叙事时，那么你在某种程度上就只能听从人们的欲望，以及它的文化基础和传统，对吗？
And tradition for many, many years, tradition was you stay married even if you're unhappy.
多年来的传统是，即使你不幸福，也要保持婚姻。
And then tradition in the 1970s and 1980s started turning into your happiness is more important than the institution of marriage, so if you're unhappy, you might need to leave your marriage and get divorced.
然后 20 世纪 70 年代和 80 年代的传统开始变成你的幸福比婚姻制度更重要，所以如果你不幸福，你可能需要离开婚姻并离婚。
And that's when the divorce rate started to spike, right?
那就是离婚率开始飙升的时候，对吗？
And I think there's some value to that.
我认为这有一定的价值。
Tradition is, in some ways, like the wisdom of the people before us, and they saw things we might not see.
在某些方面，传统就像我们之前的人们的智慧，他们看到了我们可能看不到的东西。
And to some degree, tradition is peer pressure exerted by dead people.
在某种程度上，传统是死人施加的同侪压力。
So I think our fascination with marriage as this, I've found my soulmate, and now we're not even going to think about the possibility of us ending, even though fully 56% of the time the thing's going to end.
所以我认为我们对婚姻的迷恋就是这样，我找到了我的灵魂伴侣，现在我们甚至不会考虑我们结束的可能性，尽管56%的情况下事情都会结束。
That's the part I can't wrap my head around is...
这是我无法理解的部分是......
And again, look at the numbers there.
再次，看看那里的数字。
Let's assume conservatively that another 10% stay together for the kids.
我们保守地假设，另外 10% 的人为了孩子而呆在一起。
Because the 56 is just the ones who actually said, "This is so bad, we're getting lawyers, and we're ending this thing." How many people stay together for the kids or religious reasons or because they don't want to give away half their shit?
因为 56 人实际上是在说：“这太糟糕了，我们正在请律师，我们正在结束这件事。”有多少人因为孩子或宗教原因而呆在一起，或者因为他们不想放弃一半的东西？
That's got to be a big number.
这一定是一个很大的数字。
I mean, conservative, 10%.
我的意思是，保守的，10%。
I think it's more than that.
我认为还不止于此。
20%?
20%？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Definitely more.
肯定更多。
And these are first marriages?
这些都是第一次婚姻吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
First marriages.
第一次婚姻。
The statistics for each subsequent marriage, the divorce rate gets much higher.
随后每结婚一次的统计，离婚率就会变得更高。
So like by the time-
所以就像那时一样——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really?
真的吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
second marriage is higher than first marriage.
第二次婚姻高于第一次婚姻。
Third marriage is much higher.
第三次婚姻要高得多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
And then once you get past three, it's like you're, you know.
一旦你过了三点，你就知道了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All the divorced people in my family remarried and have been in those second marriages-
我家里所有离婚的人都再婚了，并且经历过第二次婚姻——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
very long periods of time.
很长一段时间。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I know a lot of very happy second marriage people.
我认识很多第二次婚姻非常幸福的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And still together, very happy.
而且还在一起，很幸福。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yes.
是的。
And I think there's value to that because I do think as a divorced person, you learn a lot about yourself through the process of divorce.
我认为这是有价值的，因为我确实认为作为一个离婚者，你可以通过离婚的过程了解很多自己。
You learn a lot about what you don't want to do again in a relationship and what didn't work for you.
你会了解到很多关于在一段关系中你不想再做什么以及什么对你不起作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
So I don't do anything perfectly the first time I do it, so I think that there's value in sort of giving something a try.
所以我第一次做任何事情时都不会做得很完美，所以我认为尝试一下是有价值的。
You don't learn how to swim by reading books about swimming.
你不会通过阅读有关游泳的书籍来学习如何游泳。
You learn how to swim in the pool.
您学习如何在游泳池里游泳。
So that's why I'm a fan of marriage, even though the divorce rate is very high.
这就是为什么我喜欢婚姻，尽管离婚率非常高。
It's clearly a very risky technology.
这显然是一项非常危险的技术。
One could argue it's a reckless thing to do.
有人可能会说这是一件鲁莽的事情。
The legal definition of negligence is a failure to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk of serious harm, okay?
过失的法律定义是未能认识到造成严重伤害的实质性且不合理的风险，好吗？
Recklessness, legally, is a conscious disregard for a substantial and unjustifiable risk of serious harm, okay?
从法律上讲，鲁莽是指有意识地忽视重大且不合理的严重伤害风险，好吗？
So if you know something ends in heartbreak and division of assets and fighting that requires attorneys 56% of the time, and you don't make any plan for that in advance, I would argue that's reckless.
因此，如果你知道某件事最终会导致心碎、资产分割和争吵，并且 56% 的情况下需要律师，而你没有提前为此制定任何计划，我认为这是鲁莽的行为。
You're consciously disregarding a substantial risk of harm, period.
你有意识地忽视了巨大的伤害风险，就这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, and if there's kids, it brings a different-
是的，如果有孩子，那就会带来不同的——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's a different kind of, yeah
这是一种不同的方式，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
into the bargain, doesn't it?
讨价还价，不是吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
An even higher level, yeah.
更高一个层次，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you happen to know the numbers or the rough numbers on percentage of first marriages with kids that last, whether or not they're happy or not?
您是否知道第一次婚姻有孩子的人所占比例的数字或粗略数字，无论他们幸福与否？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I don't.
我不知道。
I don't know that delineation.
我不知道这个划分。
I know that these statistics are fairly closely tracked-
我知道这些统计数据得到了相当密切的追踪——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
so you can find them out-
这样你就可以找到它们-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
online pretty easily because they're tracked by the government.
网上很容易，因为他们受到政府的追踪。
Every time we do a divorce, we have to file what's called a Certificate of Dissolution of Marriage.
每次我们离婚时，我们都必须提交所谓的“解除婚姻证明”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And that certificate includes the grade level, the highest grade level each person completed, whether there are children, how many children, the ages of the children, and the whole purpose of that document is to compile demographic information.
该证书包括年级水平、每个人完成的最高年级水平、是否有孩子、有多少孩子、孩子的年龄，而该文件的全部目的是汇编人口统计信息。
So the government for many, many years has been monitoring this and looking at, okay, what are those numbers?
因此，政府多年来一直在监控这一情况并关注这些数字是多少？
Those numbers are not well-publicized, I think partly because the wedding industrial complex does not want people getting involved in that conversation.
这些数字并没有被广泛宣传，我认为部分原因是婚礼工业综合体不希望人们参与这种对话。
They don't want people to really look at the truth of things because it takes away from the fantasy of things.
他们不希望人们真正看到事物的真相，因为这会剥夺事物的幻想。
But see, again, I think that's a framing issue because to me, I think the stars are still beautiful even if you know astronomy.
但是，再一次，我认为这是一个框架问题，因为对我来说，我认为即使你了解天文学，星星仍然很美丽。
I think if anything, I actually think, and maybe this is just the way that I look at things, the fact that love is loaned and not permanently gifted makes it more beautiful.
我想，如果有什么不同的话，我实际上认为，也许这只是我看待事物的方式，事实上，爱是借来的，而不是永久的天赋，这让它变得更加美丽。
The fact that I'm going to die for sure makes my life more beautiful.
我肯定会死，这一事实让我的生活变得更加美好。
There's a finite number of sunsets I'm going to see.
我能看到的日落次数是有限的。
There's a number.
有一个数字。
I don't know it yet.
我还不知道。
It might be five.
可能是五个。
It might be 500.
可能是500。
But there's a number, right?
但有一个数字，对吗？
And so when you're with someone, that marriage is going to end.
所以当你和某人在一起时，这段婚姻就会结束。
Every marriage ends.
每段婚姻都会结束。
It ends in death or in divorce.
它以死亡或离婚告终。
It's one of the only things in the world that you go, "I hope this ends in death." If you said to someone at their wedding, like, "Man, I really hope your marriage ends in death," they would be like, "What is wrong with that guy?" But it's the truth because all marriages end.
这是世界上唯一能让你经历的事情之一，“我希望这以死亡告终。”如果你在婚礼上对某人说，“伙计，我真的希望你的婚姻以死亡告终”，他们会说，“那个人怎么了？”但这是事实，因为所有婚姻都会结束。
They end in death or divorce.
他们以死亡或离婚告终。
I hope that yours ends in death.
我希望你的结局就是死亡。
But I don't think that makes it less beautiful.
但我不认为这会降低它的美丽。
I think it makes it more beautiful, that every day this person wakes up and decides to continue to be your spouse and to continue to be your partner and ideally your cheerleader and your fan.
我认为这让事情变得更加美好，每天这个人醒来并决定继续成为你的配偶，继续成为你的伴侣，最好是你的啦啦队长和你的粉丝。
And to me, the fact that you don't own this person, that they have free will, they have autonomy and agency, and they choose you, not just on one day where you put on nice clothes and played good music and everybody got drunk, which there's value in that and the memory of that and the photos of that and a reminder, but the fact that they every day get up and continue to choose to be with you.
对我来说，事实是你不拥有这个人，他们有自由意志，他们有自主权和代理权，他们选择你，不仅仅是有一天你穿上漂亮的衣服，演奏好听的音乐，每个人都喝醉了，这一点、记忆、照片和提醒都是有价值的，而是他们每天起床并继续选择和你在一起的事实。
And if you said to me that the reason why they stay with you is they don't want to get divorced
如果你对我说他们和你在一起的原因是他们不想离婚
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's a terrible reason.
这是一个可怕的理由。
I was a smoker many years ago.
很多年前我是个烟民。
People used to say, "Oh, you got to quit smoking.
人们过去常常说：“哦，你必须戒烟。
It's going to take 10 years off your life." And I'm like, "Right, like the last 10, like the adult diaper-wearing years.
这会让你的寿命减少10年。”我想，“好吧，就像过去 10 年，就像成人穿尿布的年代。
I don't want them anyway." Like, you've met a 90-year-old?
反正我也不想要他们。”比如，你见过一个90岁的老人吗？
I don't want to be 90.
我不想成为90岁。
It's fine.
没关系。
You're taking them off the tail end.
你要把它们从尾部取下来。
Once I made the connection between I feel better, I taste food better, I can run further and faster, then it made sense to me because now there's something real and tangible in the present.
一旦我在我感觉更好、我尝到了更好的食物、我可以跑得更远更快之间建立了联系，那么这对我来说就有意义了，因为现在有一些真实的、有形的东西。
There's something that has value.
有一些东西是有价值的。
So I think it's the same thing with marriage.
所以我认为婚姻也是如此。
It's the same thing with prenups, which is let's not talk about what is this going to give us on the back end, or what are we going to lose if we don't have this on the back end.
婚前协议也是如此，我们不要谈论这会给我们带来什么，或者如果我们没有这个在后端我们会失去什么。
Let's talk about what can this do for us in the present?
我们来谈谈这能为我们现在做些什么？
What can this conversation do for us in the present about understanding what we mean to each other and what we owe to each other?
这段对话对我们目前的理解有何帮助，可以帮助我们理解我们对彼此的意义以及我们对彼此的亏欠？
As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 daily for more than 13 years.
正如你们许多人所知，我每天服用 AG1 已经超过 13 年了。
However, I've now found an even better vitamin mineral probiotic drink.
然而，我现在找到了一种更好的维生素矿物质益生菌饮料。
That new and better drink is the new and improved AG1, which just launched this month.
这种新的、更好的饮料是新的和改进的 AG1，它于本月刚刚推出。
This next-gen formula from AG1 is a more advanced, clinically backed version of the product that I've been taking daily for years.
AG1 的新一代配方是我多年来每天服用的产品的更先进、经过临床支持的版本。
It includes new bioavailable nutrients and enhanced probiotics.
它包括新的生物可利用的营养素和增强的益生菌。
The next-gen formula is based on exciting new research on the effects of probiotics on the gut microbiome, and it now includes several specific clinically studied probiotic strains that have been shown to support both digestive health and immune system health, as well as to improve bowel regularity and to reduce bloating.
下一代配方基于关于益生菌对肠道微生物组影响的令人兴奋的新研究，它现在包括几种经过临床研究的特定益生菌菌株，这些菌株已被证明可以支持消化健康和免疫系统健康，以及改善肠道规律性和减少腹胀。
As someone who's been involved in research science for more than three decades, and in health and fitness for equally as long, I'm constantly looking for the best tools to improve my mental health, physical health, and performance.
作为一个从事科学研究超过三十年、在健康和健身领域也同样长期从事的人，我一直在寻找最好的工具来改善我的心理健康、身体健康和表现。
I discovered and started taking AG1 way back in 2012, long before I ever had a podcast, and I've been taking it every day since.
早在 2012 年，我就发现并开始服用 AG1，那时我还没有播客，从那时起我就每天都服用它。
I find that it greatly improves all aspects of my health.
我发现它极大地改善了我健康的各个方面。
I just feel so much better when I take it.
当我服用它时，我感觉好多了。
With each passing year, and by the way, I'm turning 50 this September, I continue to feel better and better, and I attribute a lot of that to AG1.
年复一年，顺便说一句，今年九月我就满 50 岁了，我的感觉越来越好，我将这很大程度上归功于 AG1。
AG1 uses the highest quality ingredients in the right combinations, and they're constantly improving their formulas without increasing the cost.
AG1 使用最优质的成分进行正确的组合，并且在不增加成本的情况下不断改进其配方。
So I'm honored to have them as a sponsor of this podcast.
所以我很荣幸他们成为这个播客的赞助商。
If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。
Right now, AG1 is giving away an AG1 welcome kit with five free travel packs and a free bottle of vitamin D3 K2.
现在，AG1 正在赠送 AG1 欢迎套件，其中包含五个免费旅行包和一瓶免费维生素 D3 K2。
Again, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim the special welcome kit with five free travel packs and a free bottle of vitamin D3 K2.
请再次访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 领取特别欢迎套装，其中包含 5 个免费旅行包和一瓶免费维生素 D3 K2。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Our Place.
今天的节目也是由我们的地方给我们带来的。
Our Place makes my favorite pots, pans, and other cookware.
我们的地方生产我最喜欢的锅、平底锅和其他炊具。
Surprisingly, toxic compounds such as PFAS or forever chemicals are still found in 80% of non-stick pans, as well as utensils, appliances, and countless other kitchen products.
令人惊讶的是，80% 的不粘锅以及餐具、电器和无数其他厨房产品中仍然含有 PFAS 或永久化学物质等有毒化合物。
As I've discussed before on this podcast, these PFAS or forever chemicals like Teflon, have been linked to major health issues such as hormone disruption, gut microbiome disruption, fertility issues, and many other health problems.
正如我之前在这个播客中讨论过的那样，这些 PFAS 或永久性化学物质（如特氟隆）与激素紊乱、肠道微生物群破坏、生育问题和许多其他健康问题等重大健康问题有关。
So it's really important to try and avoid them.
因此，尝试避免它们非常重要。
This is why I'm a huge fan of Our Place.
这就是为什么我是《我们的地方》的超级粉丝。
Our Place products are made with the highest quality materials and are all completely PFAS and toxin-free.
我们的 Place 产品采用最优质的材料制成，完全不含 PFAS 和毒素。
I especially love their Titanium Always Pan Pro.
我特别喜欢他们的 Titanium Always Pan Pro。
It's the first non-stick pan made with zero chemicals and zero coating.
这是第一个采用零化学品和零涂层制成的不粘锅。
Instead, it uses pure titanium.
相反，它使用纯钛。
This means it has no harmful forever chemicals and does not degrade or lose its non-stick effect over time.
这意味着它不含永久有害的化学物质，并且不会随着时间的推移而降解或失去其不粘效果。
It's also beautiful to look at.
看起来也很漂亮。
I cook eggs in my Titanium Always Pan Pro almost every morning.
我几乎每天早上都会用 Titanium Always Pan Pro 煮鸡蛋。
The design allows for the eggs to cook perfectly without sticking to the pan.
该设计使鸡蛋能够完美烹饪而不会粘在锅上。
I also cook burgers and steaks in it, and it puts a really nice sear on the meat.
我还用它来做汉堡和牛排，它给肉带来了非常好的烤焦效果。
But again, nothing sticks to it, so it's really easy to clean, and it's even dishwasher safe.
但同样，没有任何东西粘在上面，所以它非常容易清洁，甚至可以用洗碗机清洗。
I love it and I basically use it constantly.
我喜欢它并且我基本上经常使用它。
Our Place now has a full line of Titanium Pro cookware that uses its first of its kind titanium non-stick technology.
我们的地方现在拥有全系列 Titanium Pro 炊具，采用首创的钛不粘技术。
So if you're looking for non-toxic, long-lasting pots and pans, go to fromourplace.com/huberman and use the code Huberman at checkout.
因此，如果您正在寻找无毒、耐用的锅碗瓢盆，请访问 fromourplace.com/huberman 并在结帐时使用代码 Huberman。
Right now, Our Place is having their biggest sale of the season.
目前，Our Place 正在进行本季最大规模的促销活动。
You can get up to 30% off all products now through May 12th, 2025.
从现在到 2025 年 5 月 12 日，所有产品均可享受高达 30% 的折扣。
With a 100-day risk-free trial, free shipping, and free returns, you can try Our Place with zero risk and see why more than one million people have made the switch to Our Place kitchenware.
通过 100 天无风险试用、免费送货和免费退货，您可以零风险试用 Our Place，了解为何超过一百万人改用 Our Place 厨具。
Again, that's fromourplace.com/huberman to get up to 30% off.
同样，来自ourplace.com/huberman 的折扣高达 30%。
I'm beginning to adopt a mindset around contracts that they are a tool to embrace reality.
我开始对合同采取一种心态，认为它们是拥抱现实的工具。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Both potential negatives, but also to enrich the positives.
既有潜在的负面影响，也有丰富的正面影响。
And imagination.
和想象力。
I think imagination, too.
我认为想象力也是如此。
I think that marriage is about an imagined future.
我认为婚姻是关于想象的未来。
It's about we're going to build this thing.
这是关于我们要建造这个东西的。
What's it look like?
它看起来像什么？
When you and your business partner sat down together, you had an imagination together.
当你和你的商业伙伴坐在一起时，你们一起产生了想象力。
You weren't just like, "Okay, what are we going to do today?
你不只是说，“好吧，我们今天要做什么？
What are we building?" Mm-hmm.
我们正在建设什么？”嗯嗯。
"What do we want it to be?" And by the way, it never ends up being what you thought it'd be.
“我们想要它是什么？”顺便说一句，事情永远不会像你想象的那样。
No. It turns into something completely different.
不，它变成了完全不同的东西。
There was no premonition.
没有任何预感。
That's a very different scenario, but no premonition.
这是一个非常不同的场景，但没有预感。
But I don't think it's really even that different.
但我不认为这真的有那么不同。
I think that if you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans.
我认为如果你想让上帝发笑，就告诉他你的计划。
I think the best thing is this vague idea of what do we want to do?
我认为最好的事情是我们想要做什么的模糊想法？
I don't know.
我不知道。
We want to do something exciting together.
我们想一起做一些令人兴奋的事情。
I don't know exactly what it's going to look like.
我不知道它到底会是什么样子。
I think this is the loose structure, but I don't know exactly what it is.
我认为这是松散结构，但我不知道它到底是什么。
You and I are friends.
你和我是朋友。
We didn't talk about what we're going to talk about today.
我们没有讨论今天要讨论的内容。
Right.
正确的。
We talked a dozen times, but we didn't go, "Well, so what should we talk about?" Why?
我们聊了十几次，但我们没有说：“那么，我们应该聊什么呢？”为什么？
Because I think if we did, it wouldn't be authentic.
因为我认为如果我们这样做，它就不是真实的。
There's something so much better about like, "Yeah, we want to have a good conversation, something of value, something we'll both enjoy, and then maybe the people watching would enjoy." So that's so much better, and I think that's what you're doing with a prenup or with a marriage, is you're imagining a future together.
有一些更好的事情，比如，“是的，我们想要进行一次良好的对话，一些有价值的东西，一些我们都会喜欢的东西，然后也许观看的人也会喜欢。”所以这样好多了，我认为这就是你在婚前协议或婚姻中所做的，就是你们一起想象一个未来。
Okay, what does it look like?
好吧，它看起来像什么？
Tell me.
告诉我。
So it's not just about the rule-outs.
所以这不仅仅是排除规则的问题。
I think about- Yeah ...
我想-是的...
certain guidelines.
某些指导方针。
Like in the octagon, it's no groin shots- Yeah ...
就像在八角形比赛中一样，没有腹股沟射击 - 是的......
no thumbing eyes.
没有大拇指。
So there's all the This is not going to happen type stuff.
这就是所有“这不会发生”类型的东西。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
And there's reasons for each of those risks.
这些风险都有其原因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No matter what, X, Y, and Z are off the table.
无论如何，X、Y 和 Z 都是不可能的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That makes people feel safe.
这让人们感到安全。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Because you want to know that certain very dangerous things are off the table.
因为你想知道某些非常危险的事情是不可能的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
Right.
正确的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But what you're talking about are a number of opt-ins through contracts-
但你所说的是通过合同进行的一些选择-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and prenups.
和婚前协议。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because you can return-
因为你可以回来——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And also markers, like markers of...
还有标记，例如...的标记
Look, you spend so much time, one of the reasons I consume so much of what you put out there is I like to know the markers before I have the problem.
看，你花了这么多时间，我消耗这么多你在那里发布的内容的原因之一是我想在出现问题之前了解标记。
I like to know what are the things?
我想知道有哪些东西？
Measure what matters, right?
衡量重要的事情，对吗？
I want to look at what has changed, and then what can I do to adjust at that point?
我想看看发生了什么变化，然后我可以做些什么来调整？
And I think relationships, it's the same thing.
我认为人际关系也是一样的。
By the time you're in my office, it's too late.
当你来到我的办公室时，已经太晚了。
It is so much harder to take a broken relationship and try to make it good again than it is to take a good relationship and keep it good and keep it strong.
接受一段破裂的关系并试图让它再次变得美好比维持一段良好的关系并保持良好和牢固要困难得多。
It's so much harder to gain a bunch of weight and then try to lose all of it than it is to maintain a healthy body mass.
增加大量体重然后尝试减掉所有体重比保持健康的体重要困难得多。
It's just easier.
这更容易。
So I think the same concept applies, which is be honest with yourself about what it is we're moving towards and what it is we're building, and how do we stay at this place?
所以我认为同样的概念也适用，那就是对自己诚实，了解我们正在走向什么、我们正在建设什么，以及我们如何留在这个地方？
I don't like to just have, it's not just about the opt-outs.
我不喜欢只是拥有，这不仅仅是选择退出的问题。
Like, okay, if we're split up, we're not going to have to hire lawyers, and we're not going to have to go through the court system.
就像，好吧，如果我们分开了，我们就不必聘请律师，也不必通过法院系统。
We're going to know what the rules are.
我们将了解规则是什么。
There's value to that.
这是有价值的。
But there's also tremendous value to the conversation about what do we owe each other?
但关于我们彼此亏欠什么的对话也具有巨大的价值。
What are we bringing to this relate- Because that's where the economy piece of it comes in.
我们在这方面带来了什么——因为这就是经济部分的用武之地。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Which is, and this is the part which is so laden with gender stuff and no one wants to talk about it, or it doesn't feel safe to talk about.
是的，这部分充满了性别的东西，没有人愿意谈论它，或者谈论它感觉不安全。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Or to talk about it honestly.
或者诚实地谈论它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hence 56%.
因此是 56%。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, I think so.
是的，我想是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I think we are poorer for that dishonesty.
我认为我们因为这种不诚实而变得更穷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Because I think I understand it's an uncomfortable truth.
因为我想我明白这是一个令人不安的事实。
I understand that it's difficult to say, "Yeah, I don't know, there's something in me that wants it this way.
我知道很难说：“是的，我不知道，我内心有某种东西想要这样。
I don't know what it is.
我不知道那是什么。
I don't know if it's biology, I don't know if it's hormones.
我不知道这是不是生物学，我不知道是不是荷尔蒙。
I don't know what." This is important to me.
我不知道什么。”这对我来说很重要。
Yeah, I want to have a fulfilling sexual relationship with you, but we want different things sexually.
是的，我想与你建立令人满意的性关系，但我们在性方面想要的东西不同。
I want frequency.
我想要频率。
You want intensity.
你想要强度。
Whatever it might be, the male sex drive, the female sex drive, they're not the same.
不管是什么，男性的性欲和女性的性欲是不一样的。
Hormonally, they're not the same.
从荷尔蒙角度来看，它们并不相同。
So is it okay to have a conversation about, hey, if we're marrying each other, we have a sexual relationship usually.
那么，可以谈论一下，嘿，如果我们结婚了，我们通常会发生性关系。
And so where it's at right now is good, I'd imagine.
所以我想，现在的情况是好的。
So how do we know when we're slipping off baseline?
那么我们如何知道我们何时偏离基线呢？
And how do we know where-- And by the way, how do we know when we slip off baseline, it's not a sign of disaster, right?
我们怎么知道在哪里——顺便说一句，我们怎么知道我们何时偏离基线，这不是灾难的征兆，对吗？
If I'm eight years old and my eyesight starts to get really bad, it's probably more alarming than if I'm 52 and now I need reading glasses.
如果我八岁的时候我的视力开始变得非常糟糕，这可能比我现在 52 岁而现在需要老花镜更令人担忧。
These are more normal things.
这些都是比较正常的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right?
对吗？
So why not say, "Hey, I'm not saying the amount of sex we're having when we're dating or engaged is the baseline, and if we ever slip off of that, it means that the relationship's in trouble." That's an insane statement.
所以为什么不说，“嘿，我并不是说我们约会或订婚时的性行为次数是基准，如果我们偏离了基准，那就意味着我们的关系遇到了麻烦。”这是一个疯狂的声明。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So do prenups include discussions or agreements about sex, money-
婚前协议也包括有关性、金钱的讨论或协议吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
They can
他们可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
et cetera?
等等？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, money for sure.
嗯，肯定有钱。
Sex, they can.
性，他们可以。
And I think the overall conversation that should surround prenups, and the reason why I think people who get prenups, in my observation, are less likely to get divorced, is at the front of this thing, you are having conversations about what do we owe each other, what do we expect from each other?
我认为围绕婚前协议的整体对话，以及我认为签署婚前协议的人离婚的可能性较小的原因，是在这件事的前面，你正在讨论我们彼此欠对方什么，我们对对方有什么期望？
What is meaningful to us about each other?
对我们彼此而言，什么是有意义的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
What value do you bring to my life?
你给我的生活带来什么价值？
Why can we do that in any other relationship?
为什么我们可以在其他关系中做到这一点？
If right now, you as my friend, someone said, "Why do you like Andrew Huberman as a friend?" I could run off a list of things.
如果现在，你作为我的朋友，有人说：“你为什么喜欢安德鲁·胡伯曼作为朋友？”我可以列出一系列事情。
He's super interesting.
他超级有趣。
He's super interested.
他超级感兴趣。
He knows a lot of cool workout stuff.
他知道很多很酷的锻炼知识。
He's a lot of fun to hang out with.
和他在一起很有趣。
He eats the same way that I do, kind of boring.
他吃东西的方式和我一样，有点无聊。
He doesn't drink, just like me, so we can hang out and I don't feel weird because I'm not drinking because he's not either.
他不喝酒，就像我一样，所以我们可以出去玩，我不觉得奇怪，因为我不喝酒，因为他也不喝酒。
There's a whole list of stuff I could say.
我可以说一整套事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd say the exact same things about you.
我也会对你说同样的话。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
There you go.
就这样吧。
All right.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Except you know a bunch of stuff I don't know in addition to that.
除了你知道一些我不知道的东西之外。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But we're interested, we're interesting.
但我们感兴趣，我们很有趣。
Our friendship makes sense, right?
我们的友谊很有意义，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And by the way, isn't it lovely to hear what someone likes about you?
顺便说一句，听到有人喜欢你什么不是很高兴吗？
I think it's one of the nicest things in the world when somebody says, "You know what I like about you, Jim?" I'm all ears.
我认为，当有人说：“吉姆，你知道我喜欢你什么吗？”时，这是世界上最美好的事情之一。我洗耳恭听。
Tell me.
告诉我。
Or if someone who I love and trust and know, like I know you're my friend, so if you called me and you said, "You know, Jim, can I give you some constructive feedback?
或者，如果我爱、信任和认识的人，就像我知道你是我的朋友，所以如果你打电话给我并说：“你知道，吉姆，我可以给你一些建设性的反馈吗？
Something I think you're doing that's getting in your own way," dude, I would be all ears.
我认为你正在做的事情会妨碍你自己，”伙计，我会洗耳恭听。
I would be all ears.
我会洗耳恭听。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Likewise.
同样。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I would want to hear that.
我想听听这个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I might have made that call, won't you trust me?
我可能已经打过电话了，你不相信我吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
You've made that call to me a couple of times.
你已经给我打过几次这样的电话了。
Yes, attorney-client privilege, I can't bring it up.
是的，律师与委托人之间的特权，我不能提起。
But yeah, I think that's an event in a couple's life, right?
但是，是的，我认为这是夫妻生活中的一件大事，对吧？
So why in this romantic context would you squander the opportunity to have that conversation?
那么，为什么在这种浪漫的背景下，你会浪费这次谈话的机会呢？
Here's what you bring to my life.
这就是你给我的生活带来的东西。
Here's how you make me feel.
这就是你给我的感觉。
Here's when I feel the most loved.
这是我感到最被爱的时候。
Here's when I feel not as loved by you.
就在这时，我感觉自己不再像你那样爱我了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it's because when people hear the word prenup, they're thinking ending.
我认为这是因为当人们听到婚前协议这个词时，他们就会想到结束。
It's about the ending.
这是关于结局的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's the contract that-
这份合同是——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is going to divide the resources, so we don't have to give a certain amount to the lawyers.
就是要分资源，所以我们不用给律师一定的数额。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Everyone's going to feel safe.
每个人都会感到安全。
You don't have to worry that you're going to end up with-
你不必担心你最终会-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
whatever, less than or more than this amount.
不管怎样，少于或多于这个数额。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
There is value to that.
这是有价值的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I don't think-
但我不认为——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Those are all valuable things
这些都是有价值的东西
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I could be wrong, but I don't think most people associate the word prenup with anything about the success of the marriage.
我可能是错的，但我不认为大多数人会将婚前协议这个词与婚姻的成功联系起来。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which is probably why so few people get them.
这可能就是为什么很少有人得到它们的原因。
Is there any idea roughly what percentage of marriages-
有没有知道大概有多少比例的婚姻-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No, because what's amazing about a prenup is a prenup is not filed anywhere It's just you have one in your safe, the lawyer has one in their safe, it's a contract.
不，因为婚前协议的神奇之处在于婚前协议不是在任何地方提交的，只是你的保险箱里有一份，律师的保险箱里也有一份，这是一份合同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And is it as binding as anything else?
它和其他东西一样具有约束力吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because we know nowadays things like NDAs are kind of fluid.
因为我们知道现在像保密协议这样的事情是不稳定的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No. NDAs are fluid because NDAs are a relatively new construct, and they haven't really been tested.
不会。 NDA 是可变的，因为 NDA 是一个相对较新的结构，并且尚未经过真正的测试。
Just like non-competes, there was a period of time where non-competes were-
就像竞业禁止一样，曾经有一段时间竞业禁止是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They had everything was-
他们拥有的一切都是——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
they were overly broad-
他们过于宽泛——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Overly
过度
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
and they weren't worth the paper they were printed on, and then people tried to tailor them.
而且它们不值印刷它们的纸张，然后人们试图对它们进行定制。
And now, non-competes that are specific as to geography and duration, the court system, the living law, figures out, "Okay, here's how we have to tweak it." Prenups, the same thing happened.
现在，针对地理位置和持续时间、法院系统、现行法律的竞业禁止规定，“好吧，这就是我们必须调整的方式。”婚前协议，同样的事情发生了。
There was a lot of prenups back in the day used to get tossed out.
过去有很多婚前协议都被抛弃了。
But for the 25 years I've been practicing, trust me, I've had a couple of prenups I've tried to set aside, and I've been unsuccessful.
但在我执业的 25 年里，相信我，我曾尝试过放弃几份婚前协议，但都没有成功。
And I'm a good lawyer, but it's very hard to set aside a properly drafted prenup.
我是一名优秀的律师，但很难搁置一份适当起草的婚前协议。
And I think that that's a good thing, because again, the framing needs to change, which is everyone has a prenup.
我认为这是一件好事，因为框架需要改变，即每个人都有婚前协议。
It's either written by the government and subject to change by the government without notice to you, and then you can't opt out of the new rule set, or it's one that you and your partner draft-
它要么是由政府编写的，政府可能会在不通知您的情况下进行更改，然后您不能选择退出新规则集，要么是您和您的合作伙伴起草的规则-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
together.
在一起。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to return to prenups, and unfortunately, to divorce.
我想回到婚前协议，但不幸的是，我想离婚。
But I'd like to talk about love and the contracts, both emotional and practical, around love a bit more.
但我想多谈谈爱情和契约，无论是情感上的还是实际的，围绕着爱情。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you think people are completely honest with themselves and with the other person when they decide to get married, or simply to become, quote-unquote, "life partners," or to just become partners?
你认为人们在决定结婚时对自己和对方完全诚实吗？或者只是简单地成为“生活伴侣”，或者只是成为伴侣？
Do you think that part of the allure of the dopamine, oxytocin, pheromone, social cloud, excuse me-
你认为多巴胺、催产素、信息素、社交云的部分诱惑力吗，对不起——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and all that goes with it.
以及随之而来的一切。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's more fun than leaving the bedroom with someone you're totally crazy about, showering up and heading out-
还有什么比和你完全迷恋的人一起离开卧室，洗完澡然后出去更有趣的呢——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and going to see friends?
去看朋友？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you're happy, they're happy.
你快乐，他们也快乐。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then going back home again.
然后再次回家。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Repeat.
重复。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are very few things that are as, from the other side of the fence too, to see a couple that's really happy and in love-
很少有事情能像从栅栏的另一边看到一对真正幸福和相爱的情侣一样——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and you don't need to know or care about what they do in private.
而且你不需要知道或关心他们私下做什么。
You can feel how much they adore one another.
你可以感觉到他们有多么互相爱慕。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, you feel the vibe off of them.
是的，你感受到他们的氛围。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I think there's a pheromone effect of that.
我认为这有信息素效应。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And there's really serious primate biology that supports-
灵长类动物生物学非常严肃地支持——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
all that, that we don't even-
所有这一切，我们甚至不-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
have to discuss.
必须讨论。
We can just-
我们可以——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
put that one on the shelf and everyone knows what we're talking about.
把那个放在架子上，每个人都知道我们在说什么。
But underneath there is, like you said, our needs.
但正如你所说，下面是我们的需求。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Needs that, in the future, somebody might not feel are being met.
将来，有人可能觉得这种需求没有得到满足。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that sort of thing.
诸如此类的事情。
It's hard to anticipate one's needs too-
预测一个人的需求也很难——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
especially if it's a-
尤其是如果它是-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
first relationship or third relationship.
第一关系或第三关系。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You need some-
你需要一些——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
experience, and sometimes-
经验，有时——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you meet the right person at 18, and that's a-
你在18岁时遇到了对的人，那就是——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
beautiful thing.
美丽的东西。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, to what extent do you think people understand how to understand their own needs-
那么，你认为人们在多大程度上了解如何了解自己的需求——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and let alone express them?
更不用说表达它们了？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
I've always said that the most dangerous lies are the lies we tell ourselves.
我总是说，最危险的谎言是我们对自己说的谎言。
And I say in my book that all marriage problems stem from two underlying problems.
我在书中说，所有婚姻问题都源于两个根本问题。
We don't know what we want, and we don't know how to express what we want.
我们不知道自己想要什么，也不知道如何表达自己想要的东西。
Even if we know what we want, we don't know how to express it to our partner.
即使我们知道自己想要什么，我们也不知道如何向伴侣表达。
And I think those are two really different, but deeply correlated problems.
我认为这是两个完全不同但密切相关的问题。
I think one of the great mistakes we make is, I think we fall in love very fast in what we call love, right?
我认为我们犯的最大错误之一是，我认为我们很快就坠入爱河，我们称之为爱情，对吗？
I'm fuzzy on the whole love concept because a lot of what's described as love is something that was designed in the 1950s to sell shampoo.
我对整个爱的概念很模糊，因为很多所谓的爱都是 20 世纪 50 年代为了销售洗发水而设计的东西。
This idea of you meet this one person, and then that person, you're going to be with your soulmate.
你遇到这个人，然后那个人，你就会和你的灵魂伴侣在一起。
Whoever created the term soulmate, I owe them a tremendous amount of money.
无论谁创造了“灵魂伴侣”这个词，我都欠他们一大笔钱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, in some religions, there's actually a word for the God-
嗯，在某些宗教中，实际上有一个词来形容上帝——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
designated choice.
指定选择。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, like my bashert, my fate, right?
是的，就像我的bashert，我的命运，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
The God-given choice.
上天赐予的选择。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A singular person-
一个单独的人——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that is going to meet that need.
这将满足这一需求。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But even if you were to say, okay, this person's been selected by an omnipotent creator deity, that's at least more reasonable than saying, "I've met this one person, and they are now going to be the best friend, best co-parent, best roommate, best travel partner, best sexual partner, best confidant, best financial partner." Wait, all of those?
但即使你说，好吧，这个人是被无所不能的造物神选中的，这至少比说“我遇到了这个人，他们现在将成为最好的朋友、最好的共同父母、最好的室友、最好的旅行伙伴、最好的性伴侣、最好的知己、最好的经济伙伴”更合理。等等，所有这些？
They're going to check all of those, and they happen to live three miles from you?
他们会检查所有这些，而他们恰好住在离你三英里的地方？
And go to the same coffee shop in a world of eight billion people?
在八十亿人口的世界里去同一家咖啡馆？
What are the odds?
几率有多大？
I would definitely believe in God if that's the reality.
如果这是事实的话我绝对会相信上帝。
But the truth is, I don't think it's like that.
但事实是，我不认为事情是这样的。
I think it's a combination of pheromones, and it's a combination of dopamine.
我认为它是信息素的组合，也是多巴胺的组合。
And look, I get it.
看，我明白了。
I get it.
我得到它。
I get it.
我得到它。
But why do we have to look at it like those early days of a relationship where you...
但为什么我们必须像恋爱关系的早期那样看待它，你......
Look, we've both been in love.
瞧，我们都曾相爱过。
We've both been in a romantic relationship where just the person brushes up next to you, or the scent of them hits you, and it's like an electric shock through you.
我们都曾处于一段浪漫的关系中，只是那个人在你身边擦肩而过，或者他们的气味击中你，就像触电一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's magic.
这很神奇。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's just the greatest drug in the world.
这是世界上最伟大的药物。
But if that stayed forever, you would never get anything done.
但如果这种情况永远存在，你将永远无法完成任何事情。
Civilization would perish, because we would all just want to sit there smelling someone's hair all day.
文明将会灭亡，因为我们都只想整天坐在那里闻别人的头发味。
We would just want to be around each other all day.
我们只想整天待在彼此身边。
And by the way, not just how we feel about them, how they make us feel about ourselves.
顺便说一句，不仅仅是我们对他们的感觉，还有他们让我们对自己的感觉如何。
Why do you think affairs are so intoxicating?
你为什么认为事情如此令人陶醉？
Because you've been in this relationship with this person, and they don't even see you anymore, and you don't even see them anymore.
因为你和这个人已经是这种关系了，他们甚至看不到你了，你也看不到他们了。
And then you meet this other person, and they're like, "You're fascinating.
然后你遇到了另一个人，他们会说：“你很迷人。
You're brilliant.
你很聪明。
You're handsome." And all of a sudden, you start to feel brilliant and handsome again.
你很帅。”突然之间，你又开始感觉自己才华横溢、英俊潇洒。
Why?
为什么？
Because you observed, right?
因为你观察到了，对吗？
You're seeing yourself through the lens of this person's gaze.
你是通过这个人的目光来看待自己的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Esther Perel, when she was sitting in the same seat you're sitting in now, said that 90% of affairs people describe as they had those affairs because they made them feel, quote-unquote, "alive."
埃丝特·佩雷尔（Esther Perel），当她坐在你现在坐的同一个座位上时，说人们描述的 90% 的事情之所以发生，是因为它们让他们感觉，引用不引用，“活着”。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There was an aliveness-
有一种生机——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that was in stark contrast to the deadness or lack of aliveness in their relationship.
这与他们的关系中死气沉沉或缺乏活力形成鲜明对比。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, there's a poem-
嗯，有一首诗——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's not a justification.
这不是一个理由。
We were discussing, so what is the underlying thing-
我们正在讨论，那么根本的事情是什么——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that they're seeking?
他们正在寻找什么？
Is it sex?
是性吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is it adventure?
这是冒险吗？
And in some cases, it might be both.
在某些情况下，可能两者兼而有之。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, her book, Redefining Infidelity, like all of her writing, she and I were on a panel together some years ago, and I think she's a brilliant mind.
嗯，她的书《重新定义不忠》，就像她所有的作品一样，几年前她和我一起参加了一个小组，我认为她是一个聪明的头脑。
And she has an insight into the nature of infidelity and human relationships, romantic relationships.
她对不忠和人际关系、浪漫关系的本质有洞察力。
But again, she's saying the quiet part out loud.
但她再次大声说出了安静的部分。
And again, I don't think she's not a romantic.
再说一次，我不认为她不是一个浪漫的人。
I don't think that she doesn't believe in love.
我不认为她不相信爱情。
When someone says to me, "Well, do you believe in love?" It's like, do you believe in oxygen?
当有人对我说：“那么，你相信爱情吗？”就像，你相信氧气吗？
It's all around me.
它就在我周围。
Love's all around me.
爱就在我身边。
It's everywhere.
它无处不在。
It's the-
这是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I guess the question is, do you believe in the potential permanence of romance and love?
我想问题是，你相信浪漫和爱情的潜在永恒性吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yes.
是的。
Because I-
因为我——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
With the same person.
和同一个人。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yes, because I've seen it, just like you have.
是的，因为我已经看到了，就像你一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's a rare and special thing.
这是一件罕见而特别的事情。
One of the things I've said before, and I get pilloried for it every time I say it because people want to misinterpret it intentionally, is that marriage is like the lottery.
我以前说过的一件事是，婚姻就像彩票，每次我说这句话时，我都会受到嘲笑，因为人们想要故意误解它。
You are probably not going to win.
你可能不会赢。
But if you win, what you win is so good that you might as well buy a ticket.
但如果你赢了，你赢得的东西就太好了，你还不如买一张票。
Give it a try.
尝试一下。
Give it a shot.
试一试。
Again, with a prenup, then your downside is controlled to some degree.
再说一次，通过婚前协议，你的负面影响可以在一定程度上得到控制。
But I am a fan.
但我是一个粉丝。
Now, people take that quote and go, "Oh, well, so you're saying that it's random?
现在，人们接受这句话并说：“哦，那么你是说它是随机的？
You can't do anything to increase your chances of winning the lottery other than buying more tickets." Marriage, it's a practice, it's work.
除了购买更多彩票之外，你无法做任何事情来增加中彩票的机会。”婚姻，是一种修行，是一种工作。
And when people say to me, "Well, marriage is hard work.
当人们对我说：“好吧，婚姻是一项艰苦的工作。
Marriage is hard," I don't know what you're talking about.
婚姻是艰难的，”我不知道你在说什么。
I don't know that love has to be hard work.
我不知道爱情必须是艰苦的。
There's so much that we put on love, romantic love, that just doesn't make sense as far as I'm concerned, by observable experience.
我们赋予了太多的爱，浪漫的爱，但就我而言，通过可观察的经验来看，这毫无意义。
If you watch people who are happily married, they're cheering for each other, they enjoy each other's company.
如果你观察婚姻幸福的人，他们会互相欢呼，享受彼此的陪伴。
But again, are they dealing with those early days intoxication to the point where if the other person starts speaking, they lose their train of thought?
但同样，他们是否正在处理早期的陶醉，以至于如果对方开始说话，他们就会失去思路？
No, because they're building a life and a family and an ecosystem in the home together, and they have to divide responsibilities as...
不，因为他们正在共同建设生活、家庭和家庭生态系统，他们必须划分责任……
But those two things do not have to be incompatible with each other.
但这两件事不一定是互不相容的。
But you cannot throw into that equation ignorance and willful blindness to the reality of the impermanence of love and the fragility of love.
但你不能把对爱的无常和爱的脆弱这一现实的无知和故意视而不见纳入其中。
My career is about the fragility of love.
我的职业生涯就是关于爱情的脆弱。
And why can't we talk about this fragile thing and treat it like you treat a fragile thing?
为什么我们不能像对待脆弱的东西一样谈论这个脆弱的东西呢？
Why not treat love like what it is?
为什么不对待爱情本来的样子呢？
It's something that's so amazing, powerful, and beautiful that it sucks the reason right out of our heads, and all you want to do is be with this person and tuck in, and just, "What do you want to do tonight?
它是如此令人惊奇、强大、美丽，以至于它把我们的理智从头脑中吸了出来，而你想做的就是和这个人在一起，沉浸其中，然后只是，“今晚你想做什么？
Do you want to go to the greatest concert and the greatest venue and sit in the front row, or just sit with this person and watch something on Netflix and eat some popcorn?" Yep, I'll take that.
你想要去最棒的音乐会和最棒的场地，坐在前排，还是只是和这个人坐在一起，看 Netflix 上的节目，吃点爆米花？”是的，我会接受的。
I'll take that, because it's the best thing.
我会接受，因为这是最好的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Well, the friendship piece is something that I've heard you talk about before, and with all the discussion that we're having here about pheromone clouds and dopamine and romance and sex, I think that I'll put in a strong vote for saying all that's wonderful, but the mellow times, just hanging out on the couch-
嗯，关于友谊的文章是我以前听你谈论过的，而且我们在这里进行的所有关于信息素云、多巴胺、浪漫和性的讨论，我想我会强烈投票支持说所有这些都是美妙的，但是柔和的时光，只是在沙发上闲逛——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Are the best
都是最好的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
are different.
是不同的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Starkly different.
截然不同。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But are as bonding in many ways, especially on a backdrop of a world that, especially now, is chaotic, uncertain-
但我们在很多方面都保持联系，尤其是在一个混乱、不确定的世界背景下，尤其是现在——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
threatening to many people.
威胁到很多人。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, frightening.
是啊，可怕。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Even if you're successful in the world, the world's a lot.
即使你在世界上很成功，世界还有很多。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Pretty overwhelming now.
现在相当势不可挡。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's a lot coming at us all the time through devices and through-
一直以来，有很多东西通过设备和方式向我们袭来——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
things.
的事情。
There's a lot of uncertainty about our whole species at some level.
在某种程度上，我们整个物种存在很多不确定性。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And criticism.
和批评。
There's so much criticism from the outside world, so much self-criticism and comparison, that there's something about having someone who sees the beauty in you and is cheering for you.
外界有太多的批评，有太多的自我批评和比较，所以有一个人看到你的美丽并为你欢呼。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And that when you fall down, their response is, "Okay, you fell down.
当你跌倒时，他们的反应是：“好吧，你跌倒了。
Come on, people fall down.
来吧，人倒下了。
It's okay.
没关系。
Come on, get up.
来吧，起来吧。
You got it."
你明白了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
"You got this." Something about that, to me, is that's the best thing.
“你得到了这个。”对我来说，这是最好的事情。
When I see successful married couples, they're not taking the piss out of each other.
当我看到成功的已婚夫妇时，他们不会互相生气。
All the tropes now of women just being like, "Oh, yeah, he's just such an idiot." That it's cute somehow to talk crap about your husband or your wife.
现在所有女人的比喻都是这样的，“哦，是的，他真是个白痴。”说你丈夫或妻子的废话不知何故很可爱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Men as children.
男人就像孩子一样。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Men as children, and women as the most loathsome harpies ever to castrate a man.
男人是孩子，女人是阉割男人的最可憎的鹰身女妖。
Like, "Oh, yeah, well, please, she's this one.
就像，“哦，是的，好吧，拜托，她就是这个。
There's nothing.
什么都没有。
We're not..." I don't find that cute.
我们不是……”我不觉得那么可爱。
I don't find it charming.
我不觉得它有魅力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it's sort of an American theme.
是的，这是一个美国主题。
I've noticed half my family's in South America.
我注意到我的一半家人都在南美。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Completely different picture.
完全不同的画面。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, one could argue there are problems with the picture there.
现在，人们可能会说那里的图片存在问题。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm sure they exist.
我确信它们存在。
But it's not the same-
但这不一样——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
men are children-
男人都是孩子——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
women are cutthroat.
女人都是残酷的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, and I guess for me, especially in this increasingly performative and curated age that we live in, where we're watching on Instagram and all these other social media.
是的，我想对我来说，尤其是在我们生活的这个表演性和策划性日益增强的时代，我们在 Instagram 和所有其他社交媒体上观看。
We're watching everyone's greatest hits while we live our gag reel.
我们一边观看大家最热门的热门歌曲，一边享受搞笑片段。
And we're sort of comparing ourselves to this curated version of other people's relationships and lives.
我们正在将自己与其他人的关系和生活的策划版本进行比较。
And so a lot of the time, we're just not feeling good about what we're doing or where we're at.
所以很多时候，我们只是对自己正在做的事情或所处的位置感觉不太好。
Our bodies, our minds, our success, our accomplishments.
我们的身体、我们的思想、我们的成功、我们的成就。
We're looking at everybody else's curated greatest hits.
我们正在寻找其他人精选的热门歌曲。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I think there's something really valuable about having another human being Next to you who's not criticizing you.
我认为在你旁边有另一个不批评你的人是非常有价值的。
Even constructive criticism is criticism.
即使是建设性的批评也是批评。
There's something about having another person, and I'm not saying by the way, that part of being in a good relationship is not criticism, or the ability to give feedback to a person.
拥有另一个人是有好处的，顺便说一句，我并不是说，良好关系的一部分不是批评，也不是向一个人提供反馈的能力。
But it's like I said earlier about our friendship.
但这就像我之前所说的我们的友谊。
If you know it's coming from a place of love, of like, "Hey, man, I know you're great, and I feel like this is dampening your greatness," or, "This is shining light in the wrong place." I think there's so much value in that.
如果你知道它来自爱的地方，比如，“嘿，伙计，我知道你很伟大，但我觉得这削弱了你的伟大，”或者，“这是在错误的地方发光。”我认为这有很大的价值。
But again, it requires these two people to have a conversation early on, I think, about what do we expect, what do we feel towards each other.
但我想，这再次需要这两个人尽早进行对话，讨论我们的期望是什么，我们对彼此的感受如何。
And again, to look at that as a con-- Marriage is a contract, divorce is a different contract.
再说一次，把它看作一个骗局——婚姻是一份合同，离婚是一份不同的合同。
A prenup is a contract.
婚前协议是一份合同。
We're living in this world of contracts whether we want to admit it or not.
无论我们是否愿意承认，我们都生活在这个契约的世界里。
So why not admit it, say it out loud?
那么为什么不承认、大声说出来呢？
I promise it is not going to take away the beauty and the romance of this thing.
我保证它不会剥夺这件事的美丽和浪漫。
I've been a divorce lawyer 25 years.
我担任离婚律师已经 25 年了。
I still get misty-eyed at weddings.
我在婚礼上仍然会眼含泪水。
I still watch love stories.
我还是看爱情故事。
I watch "Love on the Spectrum." I literally cry every episode.
我看《频谱上的爱》。我真的每一集都会哭。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I haven't seen it.
我没见过。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
If you ever want to just feel the most affirmed you'll ever feel in your life, because these are people who are struggling with tremendous difficulties and challenges in life, challenges you and I don't have, and all they want is connection with another person.
如果你想感受到生命中最强烈的肯定，因为这些人正在生活中与巨大的困难和挑战作斗争，这些挑战是你我都没有的，他们想要的只是与另一个人建立联系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Beautiful.
美丽。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And there's something about how they both are like, "Oh my God, I want this." "Oh, do you like ice cream?" "Oh, I like ice cream, too." And it's just, "Oh, okay.
他们俩都喜欢说“天哪，我想要这个。” “哦，你喜欢吃冰淇淋吗？” “哦，我也喜欢冰淇淋。”只是，“哦，好吧。
Okay, good.
好的，很好。
We found a thing.
我们发现了一件事。
We found a connection point." And you're just watching it on the edge of your seat going, "Oh my God.
我们找到了一个连接点。”你只是坐在座位边上看着它，“天哪。
Yeah.
是的。
Good.
很好。
Okay, good.
好的，很好。
You're doing so good.
你做得很好。
Okay." They ran out of things to talk about.
好吧。”他们没有什么可谈的了。
Okay.
好的。
It's okay.
没关系。
And I watch it like I imagine some people watch the Super Bowl.
我看它就像我想象有人看超级碗一样。
Just on the edge of my seat.
就在我座位的边缘。
You'd think I had money on what happens to Tanner.
你可能会认为我有钱了解坦纳的遭遇。
I'm watching it, and because there's something so pure about I just want to find love.
我正在观看它，因为其中有一些如此纯粹的东西，我只想找到爱。
I just want to find another person that I'm going to feel loved by and safe with, and who likes me, and who the way they look at me makes me look at myself in a more positive way.
我只是想找到另一个让我感到被爱和安全的人，他喜欢我，他们看待我的方式让我以更积极的方式看待自己。
There's something so beautiful about that, and maybe you have to strip away a lot of this intellectual crap to be able to really see that that's what this comes down to, and to make it its purest distilled version.
这其中有一些如此美丽的东西，也许你必须去掉很多这种智力上的废话才能真正看到这就是它的归根结底，并使其成为最纯粹的蒸馏版本。
But again, I think that's something that's easiest and best to do when you're at the beginning of that journey, not midway through, definitely not where it's gone off the rails.
但我再次认为，当你处于旅程的开始时，而不是中途，绝对不是偏离轨道的地方时，这是最容易、最好的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm thinking about standards of expectation.
我正在考虑期望标准。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And obviously, social media plays an important role in that.
显然，社交媒体在其中发挥着重要作用。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Huge.
巨大的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You mentioned that people showing their best lives, best selves, best everything.
你提到人们展示最好的生活、最好的自己、最好的一切。
I have a friend who is very high up in one of the social media platforms.
我有一个朋友，他在社交媒体平台上的地位非常高。
Let's just say in the original 10-
我们就说原来的10-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Okay
好的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
who told me social media is 99% about women and female biology and psychology communicating to one another and to men, and getting men to communicate to the world things that support kind of an ideal.
谁告诉我，社交媒体 99% 都是关于女性以及女性生物学和心理学的内容，包括相互之间以及与男性之间的交流，并让男性向世界传达支持某种理想的事物。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people are going to hear that and get upset, and then I'm going to tell you that the person that told me that is a woman.
有些人听到这个消息会感到不安，然后我要告诉你，告诉我这个消息的人是一位女性。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which kind of bends people's brains around it.
这让人绞尽脑汁。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Men will show their workouts.
男士将展示他们的锻炼情况。
Men will compete with other men.
男人会与其他男人竞争。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Men will just show their half-court shot prowess, et cetera.
男人们只会展示他们的半场投篮能力等等。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is that for women?
那是给女性的吗？
Maybe.
或许。
Is it for men?
是男士用的吗？
More likely.
更有可能。
In some cases, both.
在某些情况下，两者都是。
All of it.
所有这一切。
But the argument is that this idea of ideals being presented as something to keep striving toward is very much the modern version of the Disney movie.
但争论的焦点是，这种将理想呈现为不断奋斗的目标的想法很大程度上是迪士尼电影的现代版本。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The wedding at the end.
婚礼在最后。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
The bride and groom, and everything's perfect.
新郎新娘，一切都很完美。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That there's a subconscious text there.
那里有潜意识的文字。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We're all kind of aiming for and hoping for, and so we see the top veneer.
我们都有着某种目标和希望，所以我们看到了顶层的饰面。
Let me put it this way.
让我这样说吧。
I don't think I've seen a movie, or an Instagram account for that matter-
我想我没看过电影，也没有看过 Instagram 帐户——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of a couple resolving a really hard-
一对夫妇解决一个非常困难的问题
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
challenge-
挑战-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that wasn't cancer or something.
那不是癌症什么的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like a discussion-
就像一场讨论——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a hard discussion.
一场艰难的讨论。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A real one in real time.
实时真实的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've seen some staged ones that are just ridiculous.
我见过一些上演的节目，真是可笑。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Where somebody listens.
有人倾听的地方。
"I hear you."
“我听到了。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"I hear you." Okay.
“我听到了。”好的。
But that doesn't get to the underlying emotions at all.
但这根本没有触及潜在的情感。
And so I think what's happening is people are getting more and more entranced by this ideal-
所以我认为正在发生的事情是人们越来越被这个理想所吸引——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and losing track of what you just described, which may be the real ideal.
并忘记了你刚才所描述的，这可能是真正的理想。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This one from this show, "Love on the Spectrum," right?
这是这个节目《频谱上的爱》中的一个，对吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That you're trying to find connection along the lines of simple everyday things that you-
你正试图沿着简单的日常事物寻找联系，你-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Correct
正确
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
can bask in over and over-
可以一遍又一遍地晒太阳
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
without the fear of them disappearing.
不用担心它们会消失。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because they're not that hard to attain, and they're not dependent on some transient dopamine wave that you just can't get back.
因为它们并不难获得，而且它们并不依赖于一些你无法恢复的短暂的多巴胺波。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But I think what you're saying is spot on.
但我觉得你说的很对。
So I've always interpreted social media as a form of advertising.
所以我一直将社交媒体解释为一种广告形式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's really what it is.
确实如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's advertising.
这是广告。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And there's two things about advertising that I think should be said out loud.
我认为关于广告有两件事应该大声说出来。
One is that advertising is the dream life of a culture.
一是广告是一种文化的梦想生活。
It's the ideal.
这是理想的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's the dream life.
这就是梦想的生活。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's this idea of this is what a Bud Light drinker looks like.
这就是百威淡啤饮用者的样子。
They're having a good time.
他们玩得很开心。
They're with their friends.
他们和他们的朋友在一起。
This is what a guy who drinks this beer looks like.
这就是喝这种啤酒的人的样子。
And which guy are you?
而你又是哪一个人呢？
This is what a BMW driver looks like versus this is what a Hyundai or a Subaru or Jeep driver looks like.
这是宝马驾驶员的样子，而这是现代、斯巴鲁或吉普驾驶员的样子。
So it's the dream life of a culture, and I think there's tremendous value to that.
所以这是一种文化的梦想生活，我认为这具有巨大的价值。
Tremendous value to what do we imagine ourselves to be?
我们想象自己的巨大价值是什么？
Because whenever I'm talking to someone in a negotiation, as someone who negotiates for a living and litigates for a living, like I'm not just interested in who you are, I'm interested in who you want me to think you are, and who you think you are and who you want to be.
因为每当我在谈判中与某人交谈时，作为一个以谈判为生、以诉讼为生的人，我不仅对你是谁感兴趣，我对你希望我认为你是谁、你认为你是谁以及你想成为谁感兴趣。
Right?
正确的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
So advertising, social media, it's the dream life of a culture.
所以广告、社交媒体是一种文化的梦想生活。
But here's the thing we don't like to talk about.
但这是我们不喜欢谈论的事情。
Advertising at its core is the opposite of therapy.
广告的核心与治疗相反。
If the goal of therapy is to create a sense of wellness and wholeness in a person, okay?
如果治疗的目标是为一个人创造一种健康和完整的感觉，好吗？
Advertising is the opposite.
广告则相反。
You're not okay.
你不好。
You could be.
你可能是。
If you had potato-- You would have-- Then you would be better.
如果你有土豆——你会有——那么你会更好。
You're good-
你很好-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
True
真实
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
you're good now.
你现在很好了。
It is true.
是真的。
It's actually delicious.
其实很好吃。
But the purpose of advertising-
但广告的目的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
is essentially to say, "You're not okay.
本质上是在说：“你不好。
You're not okay.
你不好。
You could be."
你可能是。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
"Redemption is available to you."
“你可以得到救赎。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
That's the subtext.
这就是潜台词。
You're not okay, and if you did X, Y, or Z, or got X, Y-
你不好，如果你做了 X、Y 或 Z，或者得到了 X、Y-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Then maybe you'll be better
那么也许你会更好
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or you'll be better.
不然你会更好。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
You'll be much better.
你会好很多。
So social media's the same thing.
所以社交媒体也是一样的。
You're not okay.
你不好。
Maybe if you did contrast therapy, saunas, cold plunges, you'd be better.
也许如果你进行对比疗法、桑拿、冷水浴，你的情况会更好。
Maybe if you took more creatine, you'd be better.
也许如果你服用更多的肌酸，你会更好。
You're good now, but you could be better.
你现在很好，但你可以更好。
And so that constant barrage of our dream life, our imagination, again, it's inspiring, it's really good for people in some ways.
因此，我们的梦想生活、我们的想象力不断涌现，这再次鼓舞人心，在某些方面对人们确实有好处。
But to be inundated on a daily basis with, "You're not okay.
但每天都会被这样的声音淹没：“你不好。
You're not..." Over and over again, this is not a normal condition for humans to be in.
你不是……”一遍又一遍，这对人类来说不是正常的情况。
And that is why I think to some degree, we find that romantic relationships so appealing because you're closing the door and this person, "You're okay.
这就是为什么我认为在某种程度上，我们发现浪漫关系如此有吸引力，因为你关上了门，而这个人，“你没事。
You're good.
你很好。
I have you.
我有你。
That's what I need." "Yeah, well, I have you.
这就是我所需要的。” “是啊，好吧，我有你。
That's what I need."
这就是我所需要的。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The cocoon.
茧。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
And what a warm, wonderful-
多么温暖、美妙——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
place to be.
去的地方。
Particularly, it's really nice to be in a warm house when it's cold outside.
尤其是在外面寒冷的时候，呆在温暖的房子里真是太好了。
It's really nice to be in a dry house when it's raining outside.
外面下雨的时候，呆在干燥的房子里真是太好了。
Well, when you're living in an ecosystem where information has become a form of garbage that comes at you from every possible angle all the time, devoid of context, and everything is an advertisement telling you there's something wrong with you, why wouldn't you want to slam the door, close the windows, and be with someone, and ideally a couple of dogs, where you guys can just be warm and happy and love each other?
好吧，当你生活在一个信息已经成为一种垃圾的生态系统中，信息一直从各个可能的角度向你袭来，缺乏上下文，一切都是广告，告诉你你出了什么问题，为什么你不想关上门，关上窗户，和某人在一起，最好是和几只狗在一起，在那里你们可以温暖、快乐、彼此相爱呢？
And by the way, it's right there.
顺便说一句，它就在那里。
It's so accessible.
它是如此容易接近。
You don't have to buy much of anything.
你不需要买太多东西。
You don't need that much.
你不需要那么多。
If you have love and you have each other, you don't need...
如果你们有爱，有彼此，你们就不需要...
And by-- That's why I think our society, I think capitalism likes love insofar as it sells Hyundais, and it'll get people to buy, like the wedding industrial complex.
这就是为什么我认为我们的社会，我认为资本主义喜欢爱情，因为它出售现代汽车，并且它会吸引人们购买，就像婚礼工业综合体一样。
It'll get you to go out and do all the stuff you do.
它会让你出去做所有你想做的事情。
But the idea that, hey, if we just find another person, that we might realize that this is all the matrix.
但这个想法是，嘿，如果我们找到另一个人，我们可能会意识到这就是矩阵。
That I don't need all of that to be loved, and I don't need all of that to feel love.
我不需要所有这些来被爱，我不需要所有这些来感受爱。
The fullness you feel when you love someone and are loved by them, again, it doesn't even have to be a human.
当你爱一个人并被他们爱时，你所感受到的充实感，甚至不必是一个人。
Your dog.
你的狗。
Why do you think people are always like, "Man, we don't deserve dogs"?
你认为为什么人们总是说，“伙计，我们不配养狗”？
Yeah, because your dog doesn't give a shit what car you drive or what you do or if you got six-pack abs.
是的，因为你的狗根本不在乎你开什么车，做什么，或者你是否有六块腹肌。
They don't care.
他们不在乎。
They just love you, and you love them in a way that is mind-blowing in that, again, do you ever look at, people are always like, "Oh, well, this person I'm in a romantic relationship with, they're aging, their body's not as jacked as it was," or, "They're not as..." Do you ever look at your dog and go, "I got to get a puppy, man.
他们只是爱你，而你以一种令人兴奋的方式爱他们，你有没有看过，人们总是这样说，“哦，好吧，这个和我有恋爱关系的人，他们变老了，他们的身体不像以前那样了，”或者，“他们不像......”你有没有看着你的狗然后说，“我得养一只小狗，伙计。
This dog is old now.
这只狗现在已经老了。
This dog's like..."
这只狗就像……”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, it's just more and more appreciation.
不，只是越来越欣赏。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's just deeper and deeper.
它只是越来越深。
It's like the pair of jeans that you're like, "Oh, my God, it gets more comfortable every year." And that's how love can be and should be.
就像你喜欢的那条牛仔裤，“天啊，它一年比一年舒服。”这就是爱可以而且应该如此。
But again, it requires to some degree that that noise of that ecosystem, that constant, "You're not okay.
但同样，它在某种程度上需要生态系统的噪音，那种持续的“你不好。
You're not okay," that we can figure out a way to turn the volume down on that and turn up the volume on what are we creating here together.
你不好，”我们可以找到一种方法来降低音量，并提高我们在这里共同创造的音量。
Again, it may not sell as many cars.
同样，它可能不会销售那么多汽车。
It may not sell as much beer.
它可能不会卖那么多啤酒。
It may not, but that's okay.
可能不会，但没关系。
That's the wholeness, that sense of wholeness, that depth of connection to me, that makes all the sense in the world.
这就是完整性，那种完整感，那种与我的联系的深度，这使得世界上的一切都有意义。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What you're describing is very alluring and when you said two people together in the cocoon, maybe some dogs as well, if one were just to inject a smartphone in there, completely different picture.
你所描述的非常诱人，当你说两个人一起在茧里时，也许还有一些狗，如果只是在其中注入一部智能手机，那就完全是不同的画面了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Totally changes the ecosystem.
彻底改变生态系统。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here, but what you describe is so beautiful, and if I look back on the best moments in romantic relationships that I've had, it was, well, in recent years, driving a segment of the California coast where there was no-
我并不是想在这里炒作，但你所描述的是如此美丽，如果我回顾一下我所拥有的浪漫关系中最美好的时刻，那是，嗯，近年来，驾驶着加州海岸的一段路，那里没有-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
phone reception.
电话接待。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The kind of peace that comes from that.
由此而来的那种平安。
It's always moments of simplicity.
总是有一些简单的时刻。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Always.
总是。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Almost anybody, if you ask them, genuinely ask them like, "What was a moment where you felt the most loved?" Their answer will surprise you.
几乎每个人，如果你问他们，真诚地问他们，“你感到最被爱的时刻是什么？”他们的答案会让你大吃一惊。
It rarely costs anything.
它很少花费任何费用。
It rarely...
它很少...
I was on, you and I both done "Diary of a CEO," Steve Bartlett, and we both have a friendship with Steve.
我参加过，你和我都写过《CEO 日记》，史蒂夫·巴特利特，我们都和史蒂夫有友谊。
And one of the questions he asked me was, "When did you feel in your life the most loved?" And I instantly knew the answer, and it was the silliest answer and yet the most honest.
他问我的问题之一是，“你在生命中什么时候感到最被爱？”我立刻就知道了答案，这是最愚蠢的答案，但却是最诚实的答案。
And I told a story about how when I was a kid, we used to get pizza every once in a while, and pizza's cut into a certain number of slices.
我讲了一个故事，当我还是个孩子的时候，我们偶尔会吃披萨，披萨被切成一定数量的片。
And I remember my friend Tommy and I were having pizza and my dad, there was an odd number of slices, and my dad had one slice and we two young boys just devoured three, four slices a piece.
我记得我和我的朋友汤米正在吃披萨，我爸爸吃了奇数片，我爸爸吃了一片，我们两个小男孩一块吃了三、四片。
So there's only one more slice left.
这样就只剩下一片了。
And of course, he and I are both looking at it, even though we'd had three or four slices of pizza and my dad had only had one.
当然，他和我都在看着它，尽管我们吃了三四片披萨，而我爸爸只吃了一片。
And my dad went like, "Yeah, you guys can have it." And we split that last piece, my friend and I.
我爸爸说：“是的，你们可以拥有它。”我和我的朋友把最后一块分开了。
And a couple of weeks later, I was at his house and ordered pizza, and his father just ate the last slice of pizza.
几周后，我在他家点了披萨，他父亲刚刚吃了最后一片披萨。
He ate more slices than we did.
他吃的片比我们多。
And I remember looking at him and thinking, "My dad would never do that." And I remember thinking, "Oh, he loves me." I just felt it to my core that he loves me so much.
我记得看着他，心想：“我爸爸永远不会那样做。”我记得我当时想：“哦，他爱我。”我只是从心底里感觉到他非常爱我。
I know he wanted that other piece of pizza, but the joy he felt in watching me eat another piece of pizza was bigger than the hunger he had for another piece of pizza.
我知道他想要另一块披萨，但看着我吃另一块披萨时他感受到的快乐比他对另一块披萨的饥饿感更大。
That is the purest expression of love.
这就是爱最纯粹的表达。
And most people, if you say to them, "What was a moment in your romantic relationship where you felt loved, where you just felt joy inside yourself?" Like, "God, I'd rather be here than anywhere in the world." The answer is not going to be, "We were at the most expensive restaurant," or, "We were having the most mind-blowing sex." Listen, you'll have fond memories of all those things, but it's some little moment of just connection or just the feeling of holding this person's hand or the way that the light hit them at the particular sunset when you were sitting outside together.
对于大多数人来说，如果你对他们说：“在你们的恋爱关系中，哪一个时刻让你感到被爱，让你内心感到快乐？”就像，“上帝，我宁愿待在这里，也不愿去世界上任何地方。”答案不会是“我们在最昂贵的餐厅”，或者“我们正在进行最令人兴奋的性爱”。听着，你会对所有这些事情都有美好的回忆，但这是一些只是联系的小时刻，或者只是握着这个人的手的感觉，或者当你们一起坐在外面时，在特定的日落时光线照射到他们的方式。
And to me, of course, modern consumer culture doesn't shove that down your throat, because you don't need to buy anything to experience that.
当然，对我来说，现代消费文化不会把它强加给你，因为你不需要买任何东西来体验它。
You don't need to do anything to experience that other than find another person and love them, and let them love you.
除了找到另一个人并爱他们，并让他们爱你之外，你不需要做任何事情来体验这一点。
And that doesn't require a lot of purchases.
而且这并不需要大量购买。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
Last year, I became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
去年，在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我成为了 Function 成员。
Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health.
Function 提供 100 多项高级实验室测试，为您提供整个身体健康状况的关键快照。
This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more.
此快照为您提供有关心脏健康、激素健康、免疫功能、营养水平等方面的见解。
They've also recently added tests for toxins, such as BPA exposure from harmful plastics, and tests for PFAS, or forever chemicals.
他们最近还增加了毒素测试，例如有害塑料中的 BPA 暴露，以及 PFAS 或永久化学物质的测试。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas.
Function 不仅提供对您的身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标记物的测试，而且还分析这些结果并提供相关领域专家的顶级医生的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量升高。
Function not only helped me detect that but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, I'd been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification.
功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，还提供了如何最好地降低汞含量的见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼消费，我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力多吃绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒。
And I should say, by taking a second Function test, that approach worked.
我应该说，通过进行第二次功能测试，这种方法奏效了。
Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important.
全面的血液检测至关重要。
There's so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test.
有很多与您的心理和身体健康相关的事情只能通过血液检查来检测。
The problem is, blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated.
问题是，血液检测一直非常昂贵且复杂。
In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost.
相比之下，Function 的简单性和成本水平给我留下了深刻的印象。
It is very affordable.
这是非常实惠的。
As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
因此，我决定加入他们的科学顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Function，可以访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman podcast listeners.
Function 目前有超过 250,000 人的等待名单，但他们正在为 Huberman 播客听众提供早期访问服务。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
You've got my mind going to a number of pleasant memories and examples.
你让我想起了许多愉快的回忆和例子。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
That's good.
那很好。
It's good to do.
这样做很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I love your pizza example.
但我喜欢你的披萨例子。
I'll just quickly give one.
我很快就给一个。
I was in a long relationship with somebody.
我和某人有着长期的关系。
We're still on very good terms, and we still laugh and delight in this one moment.
我们的关系仍然很好，我们仍然在这一刻欢笑和快乐。
There's a diner here in Los Angeles that we had come to.
我们来到洛杉矶有一家餐馆。
It's closed now, but it's still there.
现在已经关门了，但它仍然在那里。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Every time I drive past it, I think about this.
每次我开车经过它时，我都会想到这个。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think about this.
我想这个。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And you think about her.
而你也想着她。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think about her, and it was the early days of dating.
我想起她，那是约会的初期。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I remember she asked for cream for her coffee and put a little bit more cream than one would normally put-
我记得她在咖啡里要了奶油，并且比平时多放了一点奶油——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in the coffee.
在咖啡中。
And I was like, "A little cream with your coffee?" She's like, "Well, actually, I want to put the whole thing in here, but I'm trying to be polite."
我当时想，“你的咖啡加点奶油吗？”她说，“好吧，实际上，我想把整个事情都放在这里，但我想保持礼貌。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
You're trying to be demure.
你正试图表现得端庄。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I said, "Put the whole thing in."
我说：“把所有东西都放进去。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Go in.
进去吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And without hesitating, she just went plonk and put the entire-
她毫不犹豫地直接把整个——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
beaker of cream in there.
里面有一杯奶油。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we still laugh about that.
我们至今仍对此一笑置之。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I remember that moment being so freeing for me-
我记得那一刻对我来说是如此的自由——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because it was this moment where I knew she was relaxed enough to do it.
因为正是在这一刻，我知道她足够放松，可以做到这一点。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was hilarious for reasons that-
这很搞笑，原因是——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
were only clear to us, and people are probably bewildered about why it would be so meaningful now.
只有我们自己清楚，人们可能很困惑为什么它现在如此有意义。
And-
还有——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I don't think they will be
我认为他们不会
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and to me, it was a moment where I was like, I don't want to reveal who this person is.
对我来说，那一刻我想，我不想透露这个人是谁。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
People in my life will know.
我生命中的人会知道。
But she has such a lust for life.
但她对生活却有着如此强烈的渴望。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like, full blast.
就像，全力以赴。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All gas pedal on everything.
所有东西都踩油门。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it was like, "I love cream, I want the entire beaker of cream."
就像，“我喜欢奶油，我想要整杯奶油。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it was this permission that she gave herself.
而这正是她给自己的许可。
So I still delight in that.
所以我仍然对此感到高兴。
So these little things-
所以这些小事——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's great
太棒了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
right?
对吗？
And I think as you were describing the pizza example or my example, what's clear to me is that the memory of, say, the incredible early stage of a relationship or some big vacation or event-
我认为当你描述披萨的例子或我的例子时，我清楚的是，记忆，比如说，一段关系的令人难以置信的早期阶段，或者一些重大的假期或事件——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
which is wonderful, that stuff can set a kind of yearning as much as an appreciation.
这太棒了，这些东西既可以让人产生一种向往，也可以让人一种欣赏。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like, you want it again, whereas for me, this-
就像，你又想要它，而对我来说，这-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
probably silly-sounding thing about the cream in the coffee or the pizza thing, you still have that.
咖啡里的奶油或者披萨里的奶油可能听起来很傻，但你仍然有这样的东西。
It's not like you want it again.
这不像是你想要再次发生的事情。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You've got that.
你已经做到了。
It's yours.
这是你的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's never going away.
它永远不会消失。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think there's something very deeply biological and psychological-
我认为有一些非常深刻的生物学和心理学的东西——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
about those kinds of things, because I think they drive really deep pillars-
关于这类事情，因为我认为它们驱动了非常深刻的支柱-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
into our memory.
进入我们的记忆。
It's like we still have them.
就好像我们仍然拥有它们。
I mean, look at the way you describe it-
我的意思是，看看你描述的方式——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or the way that I feel.
或者我的感受。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, first of all, there's nothing silly about that example.
嗯，首先，这个例子并没有什么愚蠢的地方。
Just the fact that you say, "Well, that silly example I gave," there's absolutely nothing silly about that.
只要你说，“好吧，我举的那个愚蠢的例子”，这绝对没有什么愚蠢的。
I completely got it.
我完全明白了。
I completely was smiling while you were telling that story, because it's lovely.
当你讲那个故事时，我完全笑了，因为它很可爱。
Because what is it?
因为它是什么？
It's intimacy.
这是亲密的。
Like the definition of intimacy has nothing to do with sex.
就像亲密的定义与性无关一样。
Intimacy is defined as the ability to be completely yourself with another person.
亲密被定义为与另一个人完全做自己的能力。
And what was she doing there?
她在那里做什么？
She was doing what we all do on a date.
她正在做我们约会时都会做的事情。
Those first few days, those early days, we have Spanx on our personality.
最初的几天，最初的那些日子，我们的个性中有 Spanx。
Everything is like, okay.
一切都好像，好吧。
And again, is it lying?
再说一遍，这是在撒谎吗？
No. Is makeup lying?
不，化妆是骗人的吗？
No. It accentuates the positive, dissentuates the negative.
不。它强调积极的一面，淡化消极的一面。
It's not a lie.
这不是谎言。
If someone was wearing makeup and then they take their makeup off, I don't go, "Your eyelashes don't look like that.
如果有人化妆然后卸妆，我不会说：“你的睫毛看起来不是那样的。
You're a liar." No. Look, you're trying to impress me.
你是个骗子。”不，听着，你是想给我留下深刻印象。
I get it.
我得到它。
You're trying to be the-- But eventually, you're going to see this person without makeup.
你试图成为——但最终，你会看到这个不化妆的人。
Eventually, you're going to find out she puts an insane amount of cream into her coffee.
最终，你会发现她在咖啡中加入了大量的奶油。
But these are the things we love about people.
但这些正是我们喜爱人们的地方。
It's what makes them human is that she puts so much cream in her coffee, so weird to me.
他们之所以具有人性，是因为她在咖啡里放了那么多奶油，这对我来说太奇怪了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's ridiculous.
这太荒谬了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But let me tell you something.
但让我告诉你一件事。
You still think of her when you drive.
当你开车的时候你仍然会想起她。
You think of that moment.
你想起那一刻。
That was an investment that paid dividends forever.
这是一项可以永远带来红利的投资。
You'll remember that forever.
你会永远记住这一点。
And by the way, it's not a betrayal to future relationships that you fondly recall this moment of intimacy where this person felt loved enough and comfortable enough with you to go, "Yeah, I'm going to take that mask off.
顺便说一句，当你深情地回忆起这个亲密的时刻时，这个人感到足够的爱和足够的舒适，以至于你会说：“是的，我要摘掉那个面具，这并不是对未来关系的背叛。
I'm going to show you I like an insane amount of cream.
我要告诉你我喜欢大量的奶油。
I have no idea why I like that much cream, but I just do.
我不知道为什么我喜欢那么多奶油，但我就是喜欢。
Does that make me weird?
这让我很奇怪吗？
Is that okay?" And then you going like, "Yeah, go to town.
可以吗？”然后你会说：“是的，进城吧。
Whatever, man.
不管怎样，伙计。
I don't even use cream, but go to town.
我什至不使用奶油，而是去城里。
Be you." That's the feeling we all want is that feeling of like, yeah, you're not crazy.
是你吧。”这就是我们都想要的感觉，就是那种感觉，是的，你没有疯。
You make sense to me.
你对我来说很有意义。
You're not just like me.
你不只是像我一样。
We're very different, but you make sense to me.
我们很不同，但你对我来说很有意义。
And I feel understood.
我感到被理解了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And that to me, that's the whole thing.
对我来说，这就是全部。
And so if you say, well, this is where we were in early days, and that's the baseline, and if we don't continue to feel that intoxicated by each other, that we're doing it wrong.
所以，如果你说，好吧，这就是我们早期的情况，这是基线，如果我们不继续感到彼此陶醉，那我们就做错了。
Okay, then you've set an impossible standard.
好吧，那么你已经设定了一个不可能的标准。
That's like saying, "I'm not in the shape I was in when I was 25, so I must be doing something wrong." No. The organism doesn't change, it doesn't evolve that way.
这就像在说：“我现在的状态已经不像 25 岁时那样了，所以我一定做错了什么。”不。有机体不会改变，也不会那样进化。
This is the nature of things is that it's supposed to be what it is.
这就是事物的本质，它应该是这样的。
It's supposed to merge or evolve into something different.
它应该合并或演变成不同的东西。
But again, having conversations about what that is and what it looks like, that's the best possible way to preserve what's best in it.
但同样，讨论它是什么以及它是什么样子，这是保留其中最好的东西的最佳方式。
And I think starting a marriage with, we're not going to talk about any of that.
我认为开始结婚时，我们不会谈论任何这些。
We're not going to look at any of it.
我们不会看任何一个。
We're just in love.
我们只是相爱而已。
That's all that matters.
这才是最重要的。
We're just in love.
我们只是相爱而已。
That's all that matters.
这才是最重要的。
Let's not talk about any of this other stuff.
我们不要谈论任何其他的事情。
That to me, you're doing yourself a disservice.
对我来说，你这是在伤害自己。
Start early by creating the pattern of we're just going to say it.
尽早开始创建我们将要说的模式。
We're just going to say what we're doing right, what we're doing that hit the wrong way.
我们只想说我们做的哪些事情是正确的，哪些事情是错误的。
Because here's the thing, you and I are friends.
因为事情是这样的，你和我是朋友。
If you hurt my feelings, if we had a conversation and you said something and it just hurt my feelings, I know you didn't mean to.
如果你伤害了我的感情，如果我们谈话时你说了一些话，而这只是伤害了我的感情，我知道你不是故意的。
We're friends.
我们是朋友。
I know you don't want to hurt me.
我知道你不想伤害我。
I don't want to hurt you.
我不想伤害你。
You're my friend.
你是我的朋友。
I get it.
我得到它。
But I'm going to probably say something sometime that hurts you, and I didn't mean to.
但有时我可能会说一些伤害你的话，但我不是故意的。
So what do you do?
那么你做什么呢？
Carry that around?
随身携带那个吗？
Just don't say it out loud because it's uncomfortable to say that to Jim.
只是不要大声说出来，因为对吉姆说出来会很不舒服。
He's going to feel badly that he said that to me and that it upset me, so I'm just going to carry it around.
他会对我说这样的话，他会感觉很糟糕，这会让我心烦意乱，所以我就带着它去。
That's how, if you've been in a long-term romantic relationship, which we both have in our lives, that's how you're having some very banal sort of argument about what's the best way to get from here to Calabasas or whatever.
这就是为什么，如果你们一直处于一段长期的浪漫关系中，我们都在生活中拥有这种关系，这就是你们如何进行一些非常平庸的争论，关于从这里到卡拉巴萨斯或其他地方的最佳方式是什么。
And five minutes later, it's like, "You know, I never liked your mother," and like, "You never respected me." And you're like, "Wait, how did we get there?
五分钟后，就像，“你知道，我从来不喜欢你的母亲，”并且就像，“你从来不尊重我。”你会说，“等等，我们是怎么到那里的？
How long have you had that in the chamber?
你把它放在房间里多久了？
How long you been holding onto that?" And the answer is, since the day it happened.
你坚持了多久？”答案是，从事情发生的那天起。
So why not create a framework early where if something blips the wrong way, I'm not saying dwell on it.
那么为什么不尽早创建一个框架，如果出现问题，我并不是说要纠缠它。
I'm not saying put a person in a defensive situation by immediately calling it out.
我并不是说立即喊叫就可以让一个人处于防御状态。
But if I said, I'm telling you right now as my friend, if I say something to you at some point that hurts you, I know I didn't mean to.
但如果我说，我现在以朋友的身份告诉你，如果我在某个时候对你说了一些伤害你的话，我知道我不是故意的。
I know I didn't mean to.
我知道我不是故意的。
So I'll tell you in advance, I'm sorry.
所以我提前告诉你，对不起。
I'm sorry, because I know I didn't mean to hurt you.
对不起，因为我知道我无意伤害你。
Doesn't mean what I said isn't true.
并不代表我说的不真实。
It might be true.
这可能是真的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It might be fair criticism, but I know I didn't mean to hurt you.
这可能是公平的批评，但我知道我无意伤害你。
I know, because I love you.
我知道，因为我爱你。
And so if you're my friend and I love you, I didn't mean to hurt you.
因此，如果你是我的朋友并且我爱你，我就无意伤害你。
I know that for sure.
我肯定知道这一点。
So why can't we from the beginning, and that's why I like prenups, because from the beginning, let's talk about this.
那么为什么我们不能从一开始，这就是为什么我喜欢婚前协议，因为从一开始，我们就讨论这个。
What do we mean to each other?
我们对彼此意味着什么？
What do we owe to each other?
我们彼此欠什么？
What are the benchmarks of this economy?
这个经济的基准是什么？
What are the exchanges of value between us?
我们之间有哪些价值交换？
And as we grow and change, how will we hold on to the part that's most meaningful to both of us?
随着我们的成长和改变，我们将如何坚持对我们双方最有意义的部分？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Can you give some examples of what a prenup, kind of the scaffold of a prenup might-
你能举一些例子来说明婚前协议，一种婚前协议的框架——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
look like?
看起来像？
Barring the extremes of like-
除非出现极端情况——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, of course
是的，当然
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
billionaires and-
亿万富翁和——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and they have 19 Chihuahuas or whatever it is.
他们有 19 只吉娃娃狗或者其他什么东西。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Good Lord, who has 19 Chihuahuas?
天啊，谁有19只吉娃娃？
But-
但是——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's an ambitious-- Actually, one of my jujitsu teachers, Paul Shriner, he's got a remarkable number of Chihuahuas.
这是一个雄心勃勃的——事实上，我的一位柔术老师保罗·施赖纳(Paul Shriner)，他拥有数量惊人的吉娃娃狗。
He rescues Chihuahuas.
他救了吉娃娃狗。
I admire it tremendously.
我非常佩服它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think Steven Kotler, who is involved in a lot of the literature and popular writing around flow-
我认为史蒂文·科特勒（Steven Kotler）参与了大量有关心流的文学和流行写作——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
has a lot of Chihuahuas, and he told me that in some country other than the United States where they translate books-
有很多吉娃娃狗，他告诉我，在美国以外的一些国家，他们翻译书籍——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
someone played a joke or something where on the title of the book, it translates as Chihuahua Man.
有人开了个玩笑或其他什么东西，书名上的意思是“吉娃娃人”。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Love that.
喜欢那个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or something like that.
或者类似的东西。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, if you think about Chihuahuas, it's fair because if you glued like 20 of them together, it's still not a great dane.
好吧，如果你想想吉娃娃狗，这是公平的，因为如果你把大约 20 只吉娃娃狗粘在一起，它仍然不是一只伟大的丹麦狗。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
Size-wise, just mass in terms of volume of it.
就尺寸而言，只是其体积的质量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I like all dogs.
我喜欢所有的狗。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I like all dogs, too.
我也喜欢所有的狗。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I like all dogs.
我喜欢所有的狗。
For the record, I'm not being politically correct.
郑重声明，我的观点并不政治正确。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I'm partial to hounds, but I like all dogs.
我偏爱猎犬，但我喜欢所有的狗。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, you and I are friends for a reason.
好吧，你和我成为朋友是有原因的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some of the basic scaffold-
一些基本的脚手架 -
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of a prenup.
婚前协议。
Because I can imagine the, "If we break up, you'll get X amount of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."
因为我可以想象，“如果我们分手，你会得到X数量的废话，废话，废话，废话，废话。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, it can be a lot of that.
是的，可能有很多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Maybe list off some core tenets.
也许列出一些核心原则。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
So to do that, what you're doing is we're going to do a consultation for a prenuptial agreement right here.
为此，我们将在这里就婚前协议进行协商。
I do them all the time.
我一直这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
So the first thing that...
所以第一件事就是...
Yeah, you're getting it for free.
是的，您可以免费获得它。
That's pretty good.
那很好。
It's usually $850.
通常是 850 美元。
So, what I'll say is the following.
那么，我要说的是以下内容。
To understand what a contract does, the first thing you have to understand is what are your rights in the absence of that contract, right?
要了解合同的作用，您首先必须了解在没有合同的情况下您的权利是什么，对吧？
Most contracts, that's pretty easy.
大多数合同，这都很简单。
Like, I'm going to lease a car.
比如，我要租一辆车。
I know in the absence of that car lease, they have the car and I have the money, right?
我知道在没有汽车租赁的情况下，他们有车，我有钱，对吗？
So that's a really easy contract because whatever the contract is, we both want the same thing.
所以这是一份非常简单的合同，因为无论合同是什么，我们都想要同样的东西。
They want my money, and I want their car.
他们想要我的钱，我想要他们的车。
So now we're just trying to figure out what are the terms and how do we codify them, and then we'll come up with what are some things that could go wrong.
所以现在我们只是想弄清楚这些术语是什么以及我们如何将它们编入法典，然后我们会找出一些可能出错的地方。
What if I stop making the payments?
如果我停止付款怎么办？
What if I drive the car off the lot and the wheels fall off?
如果我把车开出停车场，轮子掉下来了怎么办？
Like, okay, now we have to start using some imagination about what do we do in these contingencies.
就像，好吧，现在我们必须开始发挥一些想象力，思考在这些突发事件中我们该怎么做。
But at its core, simple contract, which is I want the car, you got a car.
但其核心是简单的合同，即我想要汽车，你得到一辆车。
You want money, I've got money.
你要钱，我有钱。
Let's figure this out.
让我们弄清楚这一点。
And if we can't, somebody else will get the car and somebody else will take my money.
如果我们不能，其他人就会得到汽车，其他人就会拿走我的钱。
We'll be all right.
我们会没事的。
We'll be okay, scheme of things.
我们会没事的，事情的计划。
Right?
正确的？
So this is the same thing.
所以这是同一件事。
Okay?
好的？
It's the same thing.
这是同样的事情。
So if we don't marry, we both know that's easy.
所以如果我们不结婚，我们都知道这很容易。
Right?
正确的？
We both know we're in love, we're happy, we're together, we're enjoying each other's company.
我们都知道我们相爱，我们很幸福，我们在一起，我们享受彼此的陪伴。
Now we're not going to get married.
现在我们不打算结婚了。
What happens?
会发生什么？
So suddenly love goes out the window.
所以突然之间，爱情就被抛到了窗外。
The whole thing falls apart.
整个事情崩溃了。
I don't think so.
我不这么认为。
That's kind of weird, right?
这有点奇怪，对吧？
So again, first order of business is why are we getting married?
再说一次，首要任务是我们为什么要结婚？
Why?
为什么？
What is the problem to which marriage is a solution?
婚姻能解决什么问题？
Why is it so strange to say to another human being, if I said to you, "Andrew, great news, I'm getting married." If you said, "Really?
如果我对你说：“安德鲁，好消息，我要结婚了。”为什么对另一个人说这么奇怪呢？如果你说：“真的吗？
Why?" Why would that be like, "What kind of jerk is Andrew today?" Why?
为什么？”为什么会这样说：“安德鲁今天是个什么样的混蛋？”为什么？
"Well, my parents, it's really important to them that I get married, and we're having a great time, she and I, but her parents are very religious." And then you say, "Oh, that's a good reason.
“嗯，我的父母，我结婚对他们来说真的很重要，我们玩得很开心，她和我，但她的父母非常虔诚。”然后你说：“哦，这是一个很好的理由。
That's a good reason to get married." We do things to make our parents happy or our partner's parents happy.
这是结婚的好理由。”我们做事是为了让我们的父母快乐或者我们伴侣的父母快乐。
That's okay.
没关系。
That makes sense to me.
这对我来说很有意义。
I genuinely think that there's a valid thing there, which is this is the reason why we're getting married, or I want the tax break that comes with getting married.
我真诚地认为这是有道理的，这就是我们结婚的原因，或者我想要结婚带来的税收减免。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's a tax break?
有减税吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
There's a significant tax break.
有显着的税收减免。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊。
On federal and state.
关于联邦和州。
You get your different dependency exemptions.
您可以获得不同的抚养豁免。
You get different schedules of how much you have to make to pay at a different...
你会得到不同的时间表，规定你必须在不同的地方支付多少钱......
Yeah, there's a whole bunch of purely financial reasons to get married.
是的，结婚有很多纯粹的经济原因。
Again, with a prenup, you can take away the risk but still have all those benefits.
同样，通过婚前协议，您可以消除风险，但仍然可以获得所有这些好处。
You can file married joint returns.
您可以提交已婚联合申报表。
You have all kinds of inheritance rights if you want them.
如果您愿意，您可以拥有各种继承权。
There's all kinds of potential perks to getting married, right?
结婚有各种各样的潜在好处，对吗？
There's also certain cultural legitimacy.
还有一定的文化合法性。
Again, another good reason for people to say they're getting married is, hey-
再说一次，人们说他们要结婚的另一个好理由是，嘿-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
We'll return to that one.
我们将回到那个。
I want to make sure we flag that because things are changing, but I agree.
我想确保我们标记这一点，因为事情正在发生变化，但我同意。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's always the have they ever been married?
总有他们结过婚吗？
Why aren't they married?
他们为什么不结婚？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We'll get back to that.
我们稍后再讨论这一点。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
If you say, "This is my girlfriend," that could mean a week.
如果你说“这是我女朋友”，那可能意味着一周。
We've been together a week, or it could mean we've been together 10 years and we have kids together.
我们在一起已经一周了，或者这可能意味着我们已经在一起十年了，而且我们都有了孩子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It implies transience.
它意味着短暂性。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Or if you say, "My wife." Now, that's a fallacy.
或者如果你说“我的妻子”。现在看来，这是一个谬论。
That's insane, right?
这太疯狂了，对吧？
Just because we went and did...
只是因为我们去了并做了...
20 bucks, Elvis will marry you in Vegas, and you're telling me that that gives more legitimacy than someone who's got two children with someone, has lived with them for 10 years, but just didn't get the government involved?
20块钱，埃尔维斯就会在维加斯嫁给你，你告诉我，这比一个和某人育有两个孩子、和他们一起生活了10年、但没有让政府介入的人更具合法性？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
That doesn't make any sense to me.
这对我来说没有任何意义。
But we've decided, it's like presto change-o, you're married.
但我们已经决定，就像转瞬即逝，你结婚了。
That means now you're a totally legitimate relationship.
这意味着现在你们是完全合法的关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A family member told me that years ago, I won't tell you what the course of their relationship was-
一位家人几年前告诉我，我不会告诉你他们的关系是怎样的——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
said the reason to get married is because it's an additional buffer against walking out when things get tough.
说结婚的原因是因为它可以在事情变得困难时提供额外的缓冲。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they're going to get tough.
他们会变得强硬。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
See, I want to hear that a lot.
看，我很想听这个。
And what if we closed emergency rooms from 10:00 PM until 5:00 AM?
如果我们从晚上 10:00 到凌晨 5:00 关闭急诊室会怎么样？
Do you think people would do less risky shit?
你认为人们会做风险较小的事情吗？
Do you think people would go like, "Hey, you know what?
你认为人们会说，“嘿，你知道吗？
If I break my leg skateboarding," sorry to pick on skateboarding, "if the ER is closed, I won't be..." That's insane to think that people in this dopamine state, intoxicated by pheromones, that they're going to say, like, "Oh, we are legally married.
如果我玩滑板摔断了腿，”抱歉，选择滑板，“如果急诊室关门了，我就不会……”想到处于多巴胺状态、被信息素陶醉的人们会说，“哦，我们合法结婚了，这太疯狂了。
I might have to get..." The numbers don't bear it out.
我可能必须……”数字并不能证明这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
With the divorce rate what it is, it doesn't work.
以现在的离婚率来说，这是行不通的。
You want to create barriers, create barriers to entry.
你想要创造障碍，创造进入壁垒。
How bad do you want it?
你有多想要它？
How bad do you want to get married?
你有多想结婚？
There's a waiting period, or you have to take a test, or you have to whatever.
有一个等待期，或者你必须参加测试，或者你必须做任何事情。
Something, some barrier to entry.
有些东西，一些进入的障碍。
You have to pay some amount of money to get married.
你必须支付一定数额的钱才能结婚。
I don't know.
我不知道。
If you believe in the barrier concept, barriers to exit makes no sense.
如果你相信壁垒概念，那么退出壁垒就没有意义。
Barriers to entry might make sense.
进入壁垒可能是有道理的。
Again, still don't think it would make that much sense.
再说一次，我仍然认为这没有多大意义。
But to tie it back to the prenup question, so the first question is, why are you getting married?
但将其与婚前协议问题联系起来，所以第一个问题是，你为什么要结婚？
Okay?
好的？
What's the purpose?
目的是什么？
What is the problem to which marriage is a solution?
婚姻能解决什么问题？
The next question is, okay, if we marry without a prenup, what will govern-
下一个问题是，好吧，如果我们在没有婚前协议的情况下结婚，那么由什么决定——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
our relationship in the event that it doesn't end in death?
如果我们的关系不以死亡告终的话，我们的关系会怎样呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Okay?
好吧？
So if it ends by some other reason, either I divorce you, you divorce me, we come to the joint decision that this isn't working, some intervening circumstance occurs that changes the dynamic between us in a way that we couldn't possibly have anticipated, whatever that might be, a medical issue, something with a child.
因此，如果事情因其他原因而结束，要么我与你离婚，要么你与我离婚，我们共同决定这是行不通的，会发生一些干预情况，以一种我们不可能预料到的方式改变我们之间的动态，无论是什么，医疗问题，孩子的问题。
I've had cases where, and these are tragic cases, but in a 25-year career, I've maybe had a dozen cases where people lost a child.
我曾经遇到过一些悲惨的案例，但在 25 年的职业生涯中，我可能遇到过十几起人们失去孩子的案例。
By usually some kind of tragic accident.
通常是由某种悲惨事故造成的。
So kid falls in the pool, drowns, and they cannot be together anymore.
所以孩子掉进游泳池淹死了，他们再也不能在一起了。
They are a reminder to the other person of this immeasurable loss that they can't wrap their brains around.
它们提醒对方这种无法估量的损失，让他们无法用脑子思考。
And so they lose each other.
于是他们就失去了彼此。
And it's not anyone's fault.
这不是任何人的错。
It's not either of their fault that this horrible tragedy occurred.
这场可怕的悲剧的发生并不是他们的错。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's just too painful.
实在是太痛苦了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But it's just too painful.
但这太痛苦了。
They just remind each other of this loss.
他们只是互相提醒对方这一损失。
They can't ever extricate that from their feelings.
他们永远无法从自己的感情中摆脱出来。
Now, I don't look at that person and go, "Well, you should never get divorced.
现在，我不会看着那个人说：“好吧，你永远不应该离婚。
Divorce is..." Dude, who am I to say to that person, "No, no, continue to feel that torturous pain," or, "Oh, go to therapy and that'll get rid of that." It's not that simple.
离婚是……”伙计，我该对那个人说，“不，不，继续感受那种折磨人的痛苦”，或者“哦，去接受治疗，这样就能摆脱这种痛苦了。”事情没那么简单。
So if that person who's been through that exquisite, unique kind of torture, that person says, "Yeah, we just can't do that.
因此，如果那个人经历过那种精致、独特的折磨，那个人会说：“是的，我们就是不能这么做。
We love each other, but we just can't.
我们彼此相爱，但我们就是做不到。
We have to start over and reboot our lives separately so that we have no memory of that anymore, or as few reminders as possible." I have nothing I can say to that except that's not a choice I could tell you is wrong.
我们必须重新开始，分别重新开始我们的生活，这样我们就不再有任何记忆，或者尽可能少地想起。”对此我无话可说，只是我不能告诉你这是错误的选择。
I don't have the right to tell you that.
我没有权利告诉你这些。
So there are circumstances that can end a marriage that were not anticipated by or caused by either person's malfeasance, right?
因此，有些情况可能会结束婚姻，而这些情况不是由任何一方的不当行为所预料或造成的，对吗？
So, okay, now what?
那么，好吧，现在怎么办？
Right?
正确的？
So if we know in the absence of a rule set, in the absence of a prenup, what happens if we divorce?
因此，如果我们知道在没有规则的情况下，在没有婚前协议的情况下，如果我们离婚会发生什么？
Well, most people never even get to that step.
好吧，大多数人甚至从未达到这一步。
Most people, when they get married, they never sit down with anyone and go, "What's legally going to happen to me right now?
大多数人，当他们结婚时，他们从来不会和任何人坐下来问，“现在在法律上我会发生什么？
What just changed?" You buy a house, you get a HUD-1 that tells you the nature of the loan and how much you're paying in interest so that nobody can claim they didn't know that.
刚刚有什么变化吗？”您买了一套房子，您会收到一份 HUD-1，它会告诉您贷款的性质以及您支付的利息，这样就没有人可以声称他们不知道这些。
You get a lead paint disclosure, you get all kinds of things.
你会得到含铅油漆的披露，你会得到各种各样的东西。
You get married, you didn't get a pamphlet.
你结婚了，却没有拿到小册子。
You just did the most legally significant thing you're ever going to do other than dying, and no one told you anything about what just happened.
你刚刚做了除了死亡之外最具有法律意义的一件事，没有人告诉你刚刚发生的事情。
So you've opted out of the title system.
所以你已经选择退出头衔系统。
So right now, if you and I buy a house together, title controls.
所以现在，如果你和我一起买房子，产权控制。
Whose name is it in?
里面是谁的名字？
If it's in your name, it's yours.
如果它在你的名字下，它就是你的。
If it's in my name, it's mine.
如果是我的名字，那就是我的了。
If it's in our joint names, we own it 50/50 unless there's a contract that says otherwise.
如果是我们联名的，我们按 50/50 的比例拥有它，除非合同另有规定。
Right?
正确的？
So there are defaults in the absence of a contract.
因此，在没有合同的情况下存在违约行为。
There are legal defaults.
存在法律默认情况。
Again, lawyers make a ton of money over people's aversion to contracts.
律师再次因为人们对合同的厌恶而赚了很多钱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's great.
太棒了。
The worst thing, when I got involved in Trusted Prenup and I told people, "Oh, I'm doing this thing.
最糟糕的事情是，当我参与 Trusted Prenup 时，我告诉人们，“哦，我正在做这件事。
I want to democratize prenups," all my colleagues were like, "Are you nuts?" A, prenups are the easiest thing we do, and we make pure profit on them.
我想让婚前协议民主化，”我所有的同事都说，“你疯了吗？”答，婚前协议是我们做的最简单的事情，我们从中赚取纯利润。
We can charge $5,000, $10,000 for basically a document that you go into Word and change the names and it's the same one for a lot of people.
我们可以收取 5,000 美元、10,000 美元的费用，基本上一份文档，你进入 Word 并更改名称，对很多人来说都是一样的。
Okay?
好的？
Or we've done so many of them that we just go, "Oh, this is just like that one," and you just change the name, and here it is, and I can charge you $5,000, $10,000 for it.
或者我们已经做了很多这样的事情，所以我们只是说，“哦，这个就像那个一样，”你只需更改名称，就在这里，我可以向你收取 5,000 美元、10,000 美元。
And if it's successful, I'm taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in counsel fees out of my pocket because now you're not going to have a litigated divorce.
如果成功的话，我将从口袋里掏出数十万美元的律师费，因为现在你不会再提起诉讼离婚了。
It's not going to be a knockdown, drag out with whatever the government's current way of handling things happens to be.
无论政府目前处理事情的方式如何，这都不会是一场彻底的、拖延的事件。
Which, by the way, is going to be different five years from now than it was five years ago.
顺便说一句，五年后的情况将与五年前有所不同。
I know that because I've been doing this 25 years and the law's completely different than it was 25 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago.
我知道这一点，因为我已经这样做了 25 年，而法律与 25 年前、10 年前、15 年前完全不同。
It changes constantly because politicians change constantly.
它不断变化，因为政客不断变化。
So fundamentally, what happens with a prenup is simple.
所以从根本上来说，婚前协议的发生很简单。
We're creating a rule set together, whatever that might be, and it can be as detailed as you want it to be.
我们正在一起创建一个规则集，无论它是什么，它可以按照您想要的那样详细。
So I've seen ones that have very specific things about how often we're going to have sex and if we split up what'll happen-
所以我见过一些关于我们发生性行为的频率以及如果我们分开会发生什么的非常具体的事情 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We're talking literally requirements?
我们说的是字面要求吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, what they are is either aspirational guidelines-
好吧，它们要么是理想的指导方针——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
or it is tied in some way to some incentive or disincentive.
或者它以某种方式与某种激励或抑制因素联系在一起。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're kidding me.
你在开玩笑吧。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Like some penalty.
比如一些惩罚。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're kidding me.
你在开玩笑吧。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I'm not kidding you.
我不是在开玩笑。
I don't advocate for that.
我不提倡这样做。
I don't think it's a good idea.
我认为这不是一个好主意。
But this story I tell pretty frequently is I did a prenup defense where I didn't write the prenup, so don't blame me, but I defended the prenup successfully, where for every 10 pounds the bride gained, she would lose $10,000 a month in alimony when they split up.
但我经常讲的这个故事是，我做了婚前协议辩护，但我没有写婚前协议，所以不要怪我，但我成功地捍卫了婚前协议，新娘每增加 10 磅，他们分手时她每月会损失 10,000 美元的赡养费。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're kidding.
你开玩笑吧。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
And a court upheld it.
法院也维持了原判。
The court in its decision actually said, "This is boorish.
法院在判决中实际上说：“这是粗鲁的。
This is disgusting.
这太恶心了。
I don't know why you married this person who insisted on this being in the contract, but it's a contract.
我不知道你为什么嫁给了这个坚持把这写在合同里的人，但这是合同。
You signed it.
你签了。
He signed it.
他签了字。
You're adults.
你们是成年人了。
You were both represented by counsel, and it's enforceable."
你们俩都有律师代理，而且是可以强制执行的。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whoa.
哇哦。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
But again-
但话又说回来——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Did the marriage last?
婚姻持续了吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No, they divorced.
不，他们离婚了。
Yeah.
是的。
They divorced, and she lost $20,000 a month in alimony.
他们离婚了，她每个月损失了 2 万美元的赡养费。
She gained around 20 pounds during the marriage.
婚姻期间她体重增加了约20磅。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you think that was the factor?
你认为这是因素吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, he was rich and she was gorgeous.
嗯，他很有钱，她很漂亮。
And he got richer, and she got less gorgeous, reluctantly.
他变得更加富有，而她却不情愿地变得不再那么美丽。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there are a lot of rich, gorgeous matchups.
但其中有很多丰富、华丽的对决。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
That's pretty common.
这很常见。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I guess that-
所以我猜——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And that's, by the way, it's gender blind, too.
顺便说一句，这也是性别盲目的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
The C-suite executive founder that you're talking about, female founder, they very often don't marry.
你所说的高管创始人、女性创始人，他们通常不结婚。
I know some people in the red pill community want to say hypergamy and stuff like that, that C-suite women only marry even more successful men than that.
我知道红药丸社区中的一些人想说一夫多妻制之类的东西，即高管女性只会嫁给比这更成功的男性。
I have a lot of female clients who I have to tell them they owe alimony.
我有很多女性客户，我必须告诉她们她们欠赡养费。
And they're like, "Wait, why do I have to pay?
他们会说，“等等，为什么我必须付钱？
I'm a woman.
我是个女人。
He's a man.
他是个男人。
He's got a strong back.
他有一个坚强的后背。
Why do I have to pay alimony?" I'm like, "Because you are a C-suite executive who makes millions, and you married the super hot, unsuccessful musician who has the, 'Oops, I didn't know I was sexy' stubble because he looks really good.
为什么我要付赡养费？”我想，“因为你是一位年薪数百万美元的高管，你嫁给了一位超级性感、不成功的音乐家，他留着‘哎呀，我不知道我很性感’的胡茬，因为他看起来真的很棒。
You married the equivalent of me marrying the hot yoga teacher.
你嫁给了就相当于我嫁给了热瑜伽老师。
I get it.
我明白了。
But you did the thing." And gender has nothing to do with it.
但你却做了这件事。”性别与此无关。
If you marry someone who earns significantly less money than you do, and they have a diminished lifetime earning capacity, then you owe them alimony, most likely.
如果你嫁给一个收入比你少得多的人，并且他们的终生赚钱能力下降，那么你很可能欠他们赡养费。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is it always 50/50 of assets?
资产总是 50/50 吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Generally, yeah.
一般来说，是的。
There's a presumption that equitable distribution, equitable meaning fair, is really the law.
有一个假设，公平分配，公平意味着公平，确实是法律。
But equitable is presumed to mean equal.
但公平被认为意味着平等。
There are some reasons and some circumstances where equitable does not mean equal.
在某些原因和某些情况下，公平并不意味着平等。
There can be things called wasteful dissipation of marital assets, where a person has squandered money that should've stayed in the marital estate, gambling, having a paramour, a girlfriend, or a boyfriend.
可能存在所谓浪费婚姻资产的情况，即一个人浪费了本应留在婚姻财产中的钱、赌博、有情人、女朋友或男朋友。
But again, to tie it back to prenups, what you're doing with a prenup, as a fundamental, is just saying, okay, there's yours, there's mine, and there's ours, right?
但是，再次将其与婚前协议联系起来，从根本上来说，你对婚前协议所做的只是说，好吧，有你的，有我的，还有我们的，对吗？
In terms of assets and liabilities.
从资产和负债来看。
Which, by the way, I think is an excellent analog to the nature of relationships themselves.
顺便说一句，我认为这非常类似于关系本身的本质。
Right?
正确的？
There's you, there's me, and there's we.
有你，有我，还有我们。
Right?
正确的？
And in a healthy relationship, there's still you, there's still me, and then there's this Venn diagram of we, right?
在一段健康的关系中，仍然有你，仍然有我，然后还有我们的维恩图，对吗？
And of course, you don't want you and me to be subsumed by the we, because I fell in love with you.
当然，你不希望你和我被纳入我们之中，因为我爱上了你。
You fell in love with me.
你爱上了我。
Why would we want those to go away completely?
为什么我们希望这些完全消失？
But of course, the we is intoxicating, and you want to become the we more.
但当然，我们是令人陶醉的，你想成为更多的我们。
But there's value in staying you and me and having a healthy we, having a healthy intersection there.
但留下你和我，拥有一个健康的我们，拥有一个健康的交集是有价值的。
So why not, in your structure of the marriage, have, okay, yours, mine, and ours?
那么，为什么不在你的婚姻结构中，有你的、我的和我们的呢？
So at a fundamental level, if you're going to have a basic prenuptial agreement, it's just going to say, hey, we're staying in that system.
因此，从根本上讲，如果您要签订基本的婚前协议，那就会说，嘿，我们将留在该系统中。
You, me, we, right?
你，我，我们，对吗？
Yours, mine, ours.
你的，我的，我们的。
If it's yours, you keep it, asset or liability.
如果它是你的，你就保留它，无论是资产还是负债。
If it's mine, I keep it, asset or liability.
如果它是我的，我就保留它，无论是资产还是负债。
If it's ours, we divide it 50/50.
如果是我们的，我们按 50/50 平分。
Fair enough?
很公平？
And now we're going into this relationship knowing the rule set.
现在我们要在了解规则的情况下建立这种关系。
So I get a big bonus at work, okay?
所以我在工作中得到了很大的奖金，好吗？
If I put it in my account and my sole name, I've protected it.
如果我把它放在我的帐户和我的名字中，我就保护了它。
We also need to have a conversation.
我们还需要进行一次对话。
"Hey, babe, you just got that big bonus at work, and you didn't put any of it in the joint account.
“嘿，宝贝，你刚刚在工作中领了那么大的奖金，你并没有把它存入联名账户。
What's that about?
那是关于什么的？
Something going on that we need to talk about?" And again, I understand.
有什么事需要我们谈谈吗？”再说一遍，我明白了。
People don't want to have uncomfortable conversations.
人们不想进行不舒服的谈话。
Well, you can have a series of mildly uncomfortable conversations throughout the course of a relationship, or you can duck that and then have some really difficult conversations in divorce court.
好吧，在恋爱关系的整个过程中，你可能会进行一系列稍微不舒服的对话，或者你可以回避这些，然后在离婚法庭上进行一些非常困难的对话。
And to me, that's pretty easy, which of those two things I'd choose.
对我来说，这很简单，我会选择这两件事中的哪一个。
So at its core, a prenuptial agreement can cover as many...
因此，从本质上讲，婚前协议可以涵盖尽可能多的...
People put in infidelity clauses, where there are financial penalties if someone cheats.
人们会制定不忠条款，如果有人作弊，就会受到经济处罚。
Again, I discourage it.
我再次劝阻它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Financial penalties?
经济处罚？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Liquidated damages, whether it's a lump sum or a waiver of alimony if you're caught cheating.
违约赔偿金，无论是一次性赔偿金还是在您被发现作弊时免除赡养费。
It used to be the law of the land that if you could prove adultery of a person, at that point, typically women, because the workforce was predominantly male at that time.
过去的国家法律规定，如果你能证明一个人通奸，那么通常是女性，因为当时的劳动力主要是男性。
If you could catch it.
如果你能抓住它的话。
That's why the picture of a divorce lawyer with a private investigator with a telephoto lens taking pictures of someone coming out of the hotel, it's in everyone's mind forever.
这就是为什么离婚律师带着私家侦探用长焦镜头拍摄某人从酒店出来的照片，永远留在每个人的脑海里。
And by the way, people still come in to my office, and they're like, "I've got him.
顺便说一句，人们仍然来到我的办公室，他们会说，“我抓住了他。
I've got photos of him coming out of this hotel with this girlfriend." I'm like, "Okay.
我有他和女朋友从这家酒店出来的照片。”我想，“好吧。
You know there's no good spouse bonus and bad spouse penalty, right?" You don't get extra stuff because you were a super good spouse who never cheated, and you don't lose stuff because you cheated.
你知道没有好的配偶奖励和坏配偶惩罚，对吧？”你不会因为你是一个从不欺骗的超级好配偶而得到额外的东西，你也不会因为你欺骗而失去东西。
Other than maybe the marriage, you don't get anything less.
除了婚姻之外，你什么也得不到。
It used to be if you could prove adultery, you waived alimony.
过去，如果你能证明通奸，你就可以免除赡养费。
So if this person cheated, they weren't allowed to ask for alimony.
所以如果这个人作弊，他们就不能索要赡养费。
That was abolished in the 1970s by statute.
该规定于 20 世纪 70 年代被法律废除。
So it's gone now.
所以现在已经消失了。
Not a thing anymore.
不再是一件事了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it's no-fault divorce.
所以离婚是无过错的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No-fault divorce is the law of the land.
无过错离婚是该国的法律。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Assets are split according to the prenup or according to the laws of the state.
资产根据婚前协议或国家法律进行分割。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Again, according to the law as it stands, which has changed dramatically over 25 years and varies state to state.
同样，根据现行法律，该法律在 25 年来发生了巨大变化，而且各州之间也存在差异。
Whereas with a prenuptial agreement, you're agreeing on a rule set.
而通过婚前协议，您就同意一套规则。
And again, if people want to agree to weird clauses like infidelity penalties and things, you can do that.
再说一次，如果人们想同意奇怪的条款，比如不忠处罚之类的事情，你可以这么做。
And lawyers, we can draft stuff like that.
律师，我们可以起草类似的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Who gets the dog?
谁得到狗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No problem.
没问题。
Who gets the...
谁得到...
Listen, pet clauses.
听着，宠物条款。
It was very funny because when the team at Trusted Prenup, I was the legal advisor piece of it, obviously.
这很有趣，因为在 Trusted Prenup 团队中，我显然是其中的法律顾问。
And so I was really feeding them so they could feed to this AI all of these prenups I had done.
所以我真的在喂他们，这样他们就可以把我做过的所有婚前协议喂给这个人工智能。
And, Ben, who's our tech guy, he lives in Australia, he called me up, and he was like, "You do know the pet clauses are actually the most complicated and diverse out of all of the things."
本，我们的技术人员，住在澳大利亚，他给我打电话，他说，“你确实知道宠物条款实际上是所有条款中最复杂和最多样化的。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I believe it.
我相信。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I said, "Yeah.
我说：“是的。
Well, do you have pets?" I said, "Because I'll tell you right now..." Because there are people that go so hard in the paint on pet stuff, that it's like they have custody rotation schedules for the pets.
对了，你有宠物吗？”我说，“因为我现在就告诉你……”因为有些人在宠物用品上煞费苦心，就像他们有宠物的监护轮换时间表一样。
They have clauses about what to do if there's a conflict about veterinary decisions.
他们有关于如果兽医决定发生冲突该怎么办的条款。
And unlike children, you are most likely going to outlive your pet.
与孩子不同的是，您很可能会比您的宠物活得更久。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And so you have to have clauses in for if this pet has to be euthanized, can we both be there?
所以你必须有一些条款，如果这只宠物必须被安乐死，我们可以一起去吗？
What do we do with the cremated remains of this pet?
我们如何处理这只宠物的火化遗骸？
If we can't agree on a park or whatever that it's going to be sprinkled at, should we each get half, and then we can do what we want with it?
如果我们不能就公园或其他洒水的地方达成一致，我们是否应该各分一半，然后我们就可以用它做我们想做的事？
These are things that, again, have that conversation.
这些都是有话题的东西。
Because here's the thing.
因为事情就是这样。
If we have that conversation when we are now angry at each other and breaking up, right?
如果我们在彼此生气并分手时进行这样的谈话，对吗？
When hell hath no fury like a woman or a man scorned.
当地狱没有像女人或男人所蔑视的愤怒时。
Do you think the answer's going to be a compassionate and thoughtful one that honors the relationship we both had with this companion animal?
你认为答案会是一个富有同情心和深思熟虑的答案，尊重我们与这只伴侣动物的关系吗？
No. It's going to be, "I'm keeping the ashes." Why?
不，应该是，“我会保留骨灰。”为什么？
"Because fuck you, that's why." That's the answer.
“因为操你，这就是原因。”这就是答案。
I've had people explicitly say...
我曾有人明确表示...
I had a case a couple weeks ago where we went in and had...
几周前我遇到了一个案例，我们进去并...
It was supposed to be a four-way discussion, but I was doing shuttle stuff, so I'm talking to the wife and her counsel, and I've got my client in another conference room.
本来应该是四方讨论，但我正在做穿梭的事情，所以我正在与妻子和她的律师交谈，我的客户在另一个会议室。
And these people own 12 properties, really high net worth case.
而且这些人拥有12处房产，确实是高净值案例。
And I said, "Look, which of these properties do you want to keep?" And she was like, "Well, which ones does he want?" And I said, "Well, why does that matter?
我说：“看看，你想保留这些财产中的哪一个？”她说：“那么，他想要哪一个？”我说：“好吧，为什么这很重要？
Why don't you tell me?" And she's like, "Well, because I want to know which ones he wants." And I said, "Right, but why?" And she's like, "Because whichever one he wants, I want those."
你为什么不告诉我？”她说，“好吧，因为我想知道他想要哪些。”我说：“是的，但是为什么呢？”她说，“因为无论他想要哪一个，我都想要。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wow.
哇。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I said, "Well, that feels like you're just trying to be contrarian." And she goes, "Well, no, he's actually a pretty shrewd investor, so whichever ones he wants are probably the best ones, so that's actually why I want them." Now, look, whether that's true, which seems like a fair logic, or whether it was because, "Fuck you, that's why," the time to have that conversation was not that moment where we're at odds, and we both lawyer it up.
我说：“好吧，这感觉就像你只是想逆向思维。”她说：“嗯，不，他实际上是一个非常精明的投资者，所以无论他想要什么，都可能是最好的，所以这实际上就是我想要它们的原因。”现在，看看，这是否是真的，这似乎是一个公平的逻辑，或者是否是因为，“操你，这就是原因”，进行这次谈话的时间不是我们发生争执的时刻，而且我们都通过律师解决了这个问题。
The conversation should've been had back in the day.
谈话应该在当天就进行。
Back when there was still an abundance of optimism and affection between these people.
那时这些人之间仍然充满乐观和感情。
And so pet clause is a great example.
宠物条款就是一个很好的例子。
I think there's tremendous value in putting that stuff in there because let me tell you something.
我认为把这些东西放在那里有巨大的价值，因为让我告诉你一些事情。
Heartbreak is hard enough.
心碎已经够难的了。
Breaking up cohabitation with someone, I don't care if you're married or not.
与某人解除同居关系，我不在乎你是否结婚。
You lived with someone, and now you're not cohabitating anymore?
您曾与某人同居，但现在不再同居了？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It sucks.
太糟糕了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It sucks.
太糟糕了。
We've all been there.
我们都去过那里。
It sucks, man.
太糟糕了，伙计。
Who keeps what?
谁保留什么？
And even if I keep a thing, I don't want that anymore.
即使我保留了某样东西，我也不再想要它了。
It just reminds me of you.
它只是让我想起你。
We got that on that trip.
我们在那次旅行中得到了这个。
I don't want to look at it.
我不想看它。
And I don't want to throw it out because it was special.
我不想扔掉它，因为它很特别。
But I also don't want to look at it, so I'm going to put it in a box somewhere and hope that someday I'm going to open that box and smile.
但我也不想看它，所以我会把它放在某个地方的盒子里，希望有一天我能打开那个盒子并微笑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And no one else opens that box.
没有其他人打开那个盒子。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And no one else opens that box and goes, "Oh, where'd you get..." "Oh, nothing." You know what I mean?
没有其他人打开那个盒子并说：“哦，你从哪里得到的……”“哦，什么也没有。”你知道我的意思？
This is the challenge of this.
这就是这个的挑战。
But that's why having that conversation earlier, that's the way it is.
但这就是为什么早些时候进行那次谈话的原因，事情就是这样。
So for me, what prenups can bind, is a long list of things you can bind with prenups.
所以对我来说，婚前协议可以绑定的是一长串可以与婚前协议绑定的东西。
What's important is what's the prenup that's right for this couple?
重要的是什么婚前协议适合这对夫妇？
What issues are important to you?
哪些问题对您来说很重要？
The simplest one, yours, mine, ours.
最简单的，你的，我的，我们的。
50/50 divide on the ours.
我们的比例是 50/50。
Yours and mine, we each keep our own, whether that's the stuff we had before the marriage or what.
你的和我的，我们各自保留自己的东西，无论是我们婚前拥有的东西还是其他东西。
Because even states like California that have community property, okay?
因为即使是像加利福尼亚州这样的州也拥有共同财产，好吗？
Community property, just to give you a CliffsNotes on it, and there's a couple of community property states.
社区财产，只是为了给你一个 CliffsNotes，并且有几个社区财产州。
California's not the only one.
加州并不是唯一的一个。
So when you marry, what you own at the time of marriage is your separate property.
因此，当您结婚时，您在结婚时拥有的财产就是您的个人财产。
Okay?
好的？
And then everything you acquire from the date of marriage forward is presumed to be marital property.
然后，从结婚之日起您所获得的一切都被视为婚姻财产。
You're one person in the eyes of the law.
在法律眼中，你是一个人。
So if you buy your wife a Rolex watch, you bought yourself one half of a Rolex watch.
因此，如果您给妻子买了一块劳力士手表，那么您就给自己买了一半的劳力士手表。
Okay?
好的？
It doesn't matter.
没关系。
Title is irrelevant.
标题无关紧要。
If you win the lottery, she won half the lottery.
如果你中了彩票，她就中了一半的彩票。
Okay?
好的？
So that's how it works in the absence of a prenuptial agreement.
这就是在没有婚前协议的情况下的运作方式。
Community property is after a certain period of time, and that period of time varies from state to state.
共有财产是在一段时间后才获得的，而该时间段因州而异。
In California, it's seven years.
在加利福尼亚州，已经七年了。
Once you hit that benchmark, all the separate property is now marital property.
一旦达到该基准，所有单独财产现在都成为婚姻财产。
You're considered fully married.
你们被认为已经完全结婚了。
You're one person in the eyes of the law.
在法律眼中，你是一个人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All the mine becomes ours.
所有矿井都归我们所有。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
All the mine becomes ours.
所有矿井都归我们所有。
So the you and the me both becomes part of the we.
所以你和我都成为我们的一部分。
Now, in theory, the legislative intent, okay, was, yeah, after a certain number of years, you're like the tree that's grown in the way that now it's inextricably.
现在，从理论上讲，立法的意图是，是的，经过一定的年限，你就像一棵树，以现在不可分割的方式生长。
There's no more you and me.
再也没有你和我了。
There's just we.
只有我们。
Right?
正确的？
Love that idea.
喜欢这个主意。
Cool.
凉爽的。
Very romantic concept, right?
非常浪漫的概念，对吧？
In reality, do you know what it did?
事实上，你知道它做了什么吗？
It spiked the divorce rate at six and a half years.
六年半以来，离婚率飙升。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Because why?
因为为什么？
Because six and a half years, honeymoon's over.
因为六年半了，蜜月结束了。
That intoxication's passed.
那种陶醉已经过去了。
That early days intoxication's passed.
早期的陶醉已经过去了。
The creamer is no longer like, "Look at which creamer she uses." It's like, "Jesus Christ, do you need that much creamer?
奶精不再是“看看她用的是哪种奶精”。就像，“天哪，你需要那么多奶精吗？
I got to go buy more creamer now."
我现在得去买更多奶精了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, don't destroy my story, man.
现在，别毁了我的故事，伙计。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I'm not trying to.
我不想这么做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just kidding.
开玩笑。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
The divorce really-
离婚真的是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm just kidding
我只是开玩笑
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
I'm the skunk in the picnic.
我是野餐中的臭鼬。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
She'll listen to this, and she's going to be like, "Wait a second."
她会听这个，然后她会说，“等一下。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, shit.
哦，妈的。
All right.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, I'm kidding.
不，我在开玩笑。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No, you were still speaking of it fondly.
不，你还在深情地谈论它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, listen, I'm-
不，听着，我是——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
So I'm the divorce lawyer
所以我是离婚律师
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
just joking.
只是开玩笑。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
If I don't bring a little black cloud to the conversation.
如果我不给谈话带来一点乌云的话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's nothing you can do to-
你无能为力——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
To take away the creamer
拿走奶精
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to puncture that memory for me.
为我刺破那段记忆。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
And by the way, all the more reason why it's not silly-
顺便说一句，这更有理由说明它并不愚蠢——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, it's insane
不，这太疯狂了
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
or stupid.
或愚蠢。
It's incredible.
太不可思议了。
That's an incredible thing.
这是一件不可思议的事情。
And we all have those things, if we're being honest, in every relationship we've ever had.
老实说，我们在每一段关系中都拥有这些东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
In every single one.
在每一个中。
Nina, my girlfriend in high school, loved Skid Row.
我高中时的女朋友尼娜很喜欢贫民窟。
She loved the band Skid Row.
她喜欢贫民窟乐队。
She was madly in love with Sebastian Bach from Skid Row, and I was so jealous because I looked absolutely nothing like him.
她疯狂地爱上了贫民窟的塞巴斯蒂安·巴赫，我非常嫉妒，因为我看起来完全不像他。
And I just remember that about her, that she had a poster of Skid Row on her wall.
我只记得关于她的事情，她的墙上挂着一张《贫民窟》的海报。
You know how many years ago that was?
你知道那是多少年前的事了？
She's a mother of two.
她是两个孩子的母亲。
But I still remember very fondly being so insecure about Sebastian Bach from Skid Row, and her kind of reassuring me like, "Oh, that's okay.
但我仍然非常深情地记得，我对贫民窟的塞巴斯蒂安·巴赫 (Sebastian Bach) 如此缺乏安全感，她安慰我说：“哦，没关系。
I think you're much more handsome than him." And me being like, "That is so not true.
我觉得你比他帅多了。”我的反应是：“这不是真的。
He's so good-looking." But we all have those memories of every single, no matter how short the relationship was, we have a memory like that.
他长得真好看。”但我们每个人都有这样的记忆，无论这段关系有多短暂，我们都有这样的记忆。
And many of them, it's been eclipsed by the shit that happened at the end, the negative stuff that happened at the end.
其中许多，都被最后发生的狗屎、最后发生的负面事情所掩盖。
And by the way, that's another good reason to control that downside, because you can destroy 20 years of amazing, beautiful memories with six months of litigation.
顺便说一句，这是控制这一负面影响的另一个好理由，因为六个月的诉讼可能会毁掉 20 年来令人惊叹、美丽的回忆。
All you're going to remember is that last six months.
你只会记住过去六个月的事情。
That's it.
就是这样。
Whoever said that money can't buy love, they didn't know it's like a restaurant.
谁说金钱买不到爱情，他们不知道这就像餐馆。
The check comes at the end.
支票在最后出现。
That's when you got to pay the bill is at the end, right?
到时候你就该付账了，对吧？
If you do it the old-fashioned way, which is we're just going to submit ourselves to a game that we don't know the rule set of, and then when it's ending, we're going to let lawyers just go at each other.
如果你用老式的方式来做，那就是我们只是将自己提交给一个我们不知道规则集的游戏，然后当它结束时，我们将让律师互相攻击。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Or we're going to rely on the hope that we won't use the adversarial system, and we'll be able to sit across each other from a table with a mediator and hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
或者我们将寄希望于我们不会使用对抗性系统，我们将能够与调解员坐在一起，手拉手唱《Kumbaya》。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What you're saying is really important.
你说的这句话真的很重要。
Forgive me-
原谅我-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for interrupting, but because I think that nowadays there's kind of a growing...
打扰了，但因为我认为现在有一种增长的......
I hear more often like, "Yeah, we were These are colleagues of mine, typically
我经常听到这样的话：“是的，我们这些是我的同事，通常是
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure
当然可以
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like, "Oh, yeah, we were married, we got divorced, but we had 15 really great years.
就像，“哦，是的，我们结婚了，我们离婚了，但我们度过了非常美好的 15 年。
We raised our daughter."
我们抚养了我们的女儿。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
That's great.
太好了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they're still friends, or at least friendly.
他们仍然是朋友，或者至少是友好的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they look on those years, or at least speak about them-
他们回顾那些年，或者至少谈论它们——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I believe them, with a ton of fondness.
我怀着极大的喜爱相信他们。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And without the major injury of what you're talking about-
并且没有你所说的严重伤害-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
which is this rough litigation at the end.
这就是最后这场艰难的诉讼。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And that's the thing.
就是这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So that's another reason to have a prenup.
所以这是签订婚前协议的另一个原因。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Another great reason to have a prenup, because look, I have an ex-wife.
签订婚前协议的另一个重要原因是，我有一位前妻。
I've been divorced for 20 years.
我已经离婚20年了。
She's been remarried for 15.
她已经再婚15年了。
She's a wonderful person.
她是一个很棒的人。
She's a friend.
她是一个朋友。
I care deeply about her.
我非常关心她。
She will always be.
她永远都是。
There's a lot of people I love I wouldn't want to be married to.
有很多我爱的人，但我不想和他们结婚。
And she would describe me that way.
她会这样描述我。
She'd be like, "I love Jim.
她会说：“我爱吉姆。
He's a great guy.
他是一个很棒的人。
He's a great ex-husband." I'm a much better ex-husband than I am husband.
他是一个很棒的前夫。”我是一个比我现在的丈夫更好的前夫。
Totally different skill set, totally different resume.
完全不同的技能，完全不同的简历。
I'm an excellent ex-husband.
我是一个优秀的前夫。
I do not have the patience to be a good husband, but I have the patience to be a good ex-husband.
我没有耐心做一个好丈夫，但我有耐心做一个好前夫。
I can be a great co-parent, too.
我也可以成为一名出色的共同家长。
I'm a really good father.
我真是一个好父亲。
You don't have to be a great husband to be a great father.
你不必成为一个伟大的丈夫才能成为一个伟大的父亲。
It's a different skill set.
这是一套不同的技能。
Just because you cook doesn't mean you can farm.
仅仅因为你做饭并不意味着你可以耕种。
Those are two different things.
这是两件不同的事情。
Yes, they both deal with food, but they're two totally different skill sets.
是的，他们都与食物打交道，但他们的技能完全不同。
So fundamentally, I think how things end very often impacts your perception and memory of the entire thing, and you as the brain scientist would be able to tell me why that works in terms of what actually imprints on us.
所以从根本上来说，我认为事情的结局往往会影响你对整个事情的感知和记忆，而你作为大脑科学家将能够告诉我为什么这会在我们身上留下实际的印记。
But I believe, and I'm sure there's some chemical reason for it, pain, we remember pain-
但我相信，而且我确信其中有某种化学原因，疼痛，我们记得疼痛-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm
嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
more than pleasure.
不仅仅是快乐。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, you know all this stuff about 28 days to form a habit or adult neuroplasticity.
嗯，你知道所有这些东西大约需要 28 天才能形成习惯或成人神经可塑性。
There's something called one-trial learning-
有一种东西叫“一次尝试学习”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and it comes fast, and it sticks around forever unless you do something to reverse it.
它来得很快，而且会永远存在，除非你采取一些措施来扭转它。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that's the basis of trauma.
这就是创伤的基础。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Bad, hard, painful stuff-
坏的、坚硬的、痛苦的东西——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is etched into our nervous system-
铭刻在我们的神经系统中——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in one trial.
在一次试验中。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sadly, in some cases, but-
可悲的是，在某些情况下，但是-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And it shapes you.
它塑造了你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Like it's the-
就好像它是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it changes your memory of everything that precedes it.
它会改变你对之前发生的一切的记忆。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
The truth is, divorce of the ugly kind is trauma, period.
事实是，丑陋的离婚是一种创伤。
I am involved in a tremendous amount of trauma.
我遭受了巨大的创伤。
Trauma for each of the parties, trauma for their children.
双方都受到创伤，他们的孩子也受到创伤。
It's a tremendous trauma, and it does not have to be.
这是一个巨大的创伤，但事实并非如此。
But here's the problem.
但问题就在这里。
No one comes into my office and sits down in front of me and says, "I want this to be complicated and expensive and awful.
没有人走进我的办公室，坐在我面前说：“我希望这件事变得复杂、昂贵和糟糕。
I want it to last a really long time.
我希望它能持续很长时间。
I want to put your kids through college instead of mine, and I want it to just be miserable.
我想让你的孩子而不是我的孩子读完大学，我希望它只是痛苦。
I want it to be a shit show." Everybody who comes in says the same thing.
我希望它成为一场狗屎秀。”每个进来的人都说同样的话。
"I want to be fair.
“我想要公平。
I just want to be fair.
我只是想公平一点。
I want this over with quickly, and I want to be fair." Problem is, their definition of fair and their spouse's definition of fair are completely different.
我希望这件事尽快结束，我希望公平。”问题是，他们对公平的定义和他们配偶对公平的定义完全不同。
Completely different.
完全不同。
And what they think they owe each other is completely different.
而且他们认为自己欠对方的东西也完全不同。
And now, you've both got guns on each other.
现在，你们都用枪指着对方。
You both hired lawyers.
你们都聘请了律师。
And I've argued both sides of every single issue you could argue in a divorce.
我对离婚中可能争论的每一个问题都进行了双方的争论。
I have argued both sides, probably in front of the same judges.
我已经对双方进行了辩论，可能是在同一位法官面前。
I've had days where, in front of the same judge, I argue complete opposite positions on different cases.
我曾经有过这样的经历，在同一个法官面前，我对不同的案件提出完全相反的立场。
Because that's the nature of our job, right?
因为这就是我们工作的性质，对吗？
And a weapon in the hands of a virtuous person protects, and a weapon in the hands of the villain causes tremendous harm, but the weapon is neutral.
而善人手中的武器可以起到保护作用，小人手中的武器可以造成巨大的伤害，但武器是中性的。
And I'm the weapon.
而我就是武器。
And there's plenty of me out there, and we get paid by the hour, and we get paid whether we win or lose, by the way.
那里有很多我，我们按小时获得报酬，顺便说一句，无论我们赢还是输，我们都会得到报酬。
Personal injury lawyers, everything is no fee unless we recover for you.
人身伤害律师，除非我们为您赔偿，否则一切都是免费的。
Not divorce lawyers.
不是离婚律师。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, your 56% statistic reminded me of marines.
是的，你 56% 的统计数据让我想起了海军陆战队。
Sometimes you'll see them with the tattoo, "Killing is my business."
有时你会看到他们纹身“杀戮是我的事”。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And on the other arm, it's "And business is good."
另一方面，则是“生意很好”。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
"Business is good."
“生意不错。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're going to say divorce is at 56%?
你是说离婚率是56%？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And business is good.
而且生意还不错。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Business is good.
生意很好。
Business is really good.
生意确实不错。
And the truth is, I don't need to make it rain just because I sell umbrellas.
事实是，我不需要仅仅因为我卖雨伞就让天下雨。
I'm not at a bar saying to people like, "Hey, man, you could do better than her." I don't need to.
我不会在酒吧里对人们说：“嘿，伙计，你可以比她做得更好。”我不需要。
People are doing a fine job of fucking their relationships up all by themselves.
人们自己就能很好地搞砸他们的关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, you're the love guy.
不，你是那个爱人。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Oh, well, I happen to be.
哦，好吧，我碰巧是。
But even my colleagues, we're not cheering for divorce any more than an oncologist is cheering for cancer.
但即使是我的同事，我们也不会为离婚欢呼，就像肿瘤学家不会为癌症欢呼一样。
And when people say to me, "Oh, this guy, he makes his living in people's ruined lives and heartbreak," it's like, "Oh, okay." My mom had cancer.
当人们对我说，“哦，这个家伙，他在人们被毁的生活和心碎中谋生”时，我的反应是，“哦，好吧。”我妈妈得了癌症。
I didn't look at the oncologist and go, "Well, I bet you feel good about yourselves making money on my mom's cancer." No, I understand.
我没有看着肿瘤科医生说：“好吧，我敢打赌，你对自己为我妈妈的癌症赚钱感到高兴。”不，我明白。
They're there because this exists.
他们在那里是因为这个存在。
And they're there to try to do what they can to help.
他们在那里尽力提供帮助。
And by the way, there are so many people that divorce the way that you described your friend's divorce and the way that I described mine.
顺便说一句，有很多人离婚的方式就像你描述你朋友的离婚和我描述我的那样。
You just don't hear about it.
你只是没有听说过而已。
You know why?
你知道为什么吗？
It's the least interesting thing.
这是最无趣的事情。
Do you think that's interesting?
你觉得这有趣吗？
If you invited me to a party and somebody said, "Oh, what do you do for a living?" And I said, "I'm a divorce lawyer." And they said, "Oh my God, you must have some stories." And I went, "Oh my God, I've got this one." So there's this couple, and they fell in love with each other, and they were quite young when it happened.
如果你邀请我参加一个聚会，有人说：“哦，你以什么为生？”我说：“我是一名离婚律师。”他们说：“天啊，你一定有一些故事。”我说：“天哪，我有这个。”就有了这对夫妇，他们彼此相爱，而且事情发生时他们还很年轻。
And then gradually, they just wanted different things.
然后渐渐地，他们只是想要不同的东西。
They matured into different people, and they sort of lost the plot of what they were together, and the Venn diagram of their overlapping interests and joys kind of got smaller and smaller.
他们成长为不同的人，他们有点失去了在一起的情节，他们重叠的兴趣和快乐的维恩图变得越来越小。
So they decided amicably that they should end the relationship, but they wanted to continue to co-parent really well.
因此，他们友好地决定结束这段关系，但他们想继续好好地共同抚养孩子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh.
哦。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Dude, you'd be like, "That is the worst story." Whereas if I go like, "And then he took a chainsaw, and he cut the car in half, and he was like, 'Pick which half you want, bitch,'" that's one that you're going to be like, "Oh my God, Jim, you got to tell the story to this guy." You want to hear that story.
伙计，你会说，“这是最糟糕的故事。”而如果我说，“然后他拿了一把电锯，把车切成两半，然后他说，‘选择你想要的一半，婊子，’”你就会说，“天哪，吉姆，你必须把这个故事告诉这个家伙。”你想听那个故事。
It's so much more interesting.
这更有趣。
And by the way, people who have an ugly divorce, it's so traumatic that it becomes part of who they are.
顺便说一句，那些经历过丑陋离婚的人，其创伤是如此之大，以至于成为他们的一部分。
It becomes a lens that they see the whole world through.
它成为他们观察整个世界的镜头。
It damages their trust so much, and they're so wounded by it.
这极大地损害了他们的信任，也让他们深受伤害。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's the fight.
这就是战斗。
I mean, often they-
我的意思是，他们常常——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, and they almost don't know what to do with themselves when it's over.
是的，当一切结束后，他们几乎不知道该怎么办。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the impact on the kids and the pets.
以及对孩子和宠物的影响。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And by the way, most human beings, you and I both know When they tell you the story of their life, they're the hero of the story.
顺便说一句，大多数人，你和我都知道，当他们向你讲述他们的生活故事时，他们就是故事的英雄。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or the victim.
或者受害者。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Or the victim, right?
还是受害者，对吧？
One of the things I like about our friendship is that you and I are very aware of our own flaws and cognitive biases.
我喜欢我们友谊的一件事是，你和我都非常清楚我们自己的缺陷和认知偏见。
And so when we talk to each other, all of the people I like best are people that like reality, and that see themselves with a certain level of reality.
因此，当我们互相交谈时，我最喜欢的人都是喜欢现实的人，并且以一定程度的现实来看待自己。
And so I don't have to be afraid to talk to them candidly and blunt.
所以我不必害怕与他们坦诚而直率地交谈。
And I think that in marriage and in divorce, if you tell the story and you're like, "Yeah, I could've done better.
我认为在婚姻和离婚中，如果你讲述这个故事，你会说：“是的，我本来可以做得更好。
I really screwed that up, but I did get this right, and she's being unfair when it comes to this." When you tell the story and you're not the hero of the story, it's much more credible as far as I'm concerned.
我真的搞砸了，但我确实做对了，而她在这方面是不公平的。”当你讲述这个故事而你不是故事的英雄时，就我而言，它更可信。
I say that as someone who tells stories for a living in a courtroom, to try to be as persuasive as possible.
我说，作为一个在法庭上以讲故事为生的人，要尽可能地具有说服力。
I always tell my clients, I'm like, "If you make yourself the hero, and you make the other person the villain, you lose credibility tremendously." Everybody has to be a flawed hero, a villain that has some traits of positive to them.
我总是告诉我的客户，“如果你让自己成为英雄，而让别人成为恶棍，你就会极大地失去信誉。”每个人都必须是一个有缺陷的英雄，一个具有一些积极特征的恶棍。
It's a much more believable, real story.
这是一个更可信、更真实的故事。
That's why little kids' TV shows, there's the villain, and the music gets dark when the villain comes on.
这就是为什么小孩子的电视节目里有坏人，当坏人出现时音乐就会变暗。
Then the hero's all good.
那么英雄就一切都好。
But as adults, that's not what we want.
但作为成年人，这不是我们想要的。
We want Breaking Bad.
我们想要《绝命毒师》。
We want anti-heroes.
我们想要反英雄。
We want complicated heroes.
我们想要复杂的英雄。
We want villains that we kind of feel a little bad for, like the Joker.
我们想要那些让我们感到有点难过的恶棍，比如小丑。
We get it.
我们明白了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, because we can relate.
嗯，因为我们可以联系起来。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
Because we know that's what we actually are.
因为我们知道我们实际上就是这样的。
And by the way, that's what our partners are.
顺便说一句，这就是我们的合作伙伴。
So this idea that let's just put a tux on him and a white dress on her, and then everybody's heroes, that's kind of silly.
所以这个想法让我们给他穿上燕尾服，给她穿上白色连衣裙，然后每个人都成为英雄，这有点愚蠢。
And that's where I think that anger that becomes toxic and definitional to a person, it doesn't have to be that way if early in the discourse about love, we just normalize this idea of you're a human being, I'm a human being, we're flawed, we have hopes, we have fears, we have things we got right, things we get wrong.
这就是我认为愤怒对一个人来说变得有毒和定义的地方，如果在关于爱情的早期讨论中，我们只是正常化你是一个人，我是一个人，我们有缺陷，我们有希望，我们有恐惧，我们有我们做对的事情，我们有我们做错的事情，那么情况就不一定是这样。
We're going to change.
我们要改变。
We're going to change in good and bad ways, if you want to parse it that way.
如果你想这样分析的话，我们会以好的和坏的方式改变。
So how do we water the plant?
那么我们该如何给植物浇水呢？
How do we keep this thing healthy and vibrant?
我们如何保持这个东西健康和充满活力？
How do we check in with each other?
我们如何互相检查？
You have a job, you have performance reviews, right?
你有工作，有绩效评估，对吧？
You have some system whereby there's feedback about what you're doing right and doing wrong, or there's a bonus structure so that there's skin in the game.
你有一些系统，可以对你做对和做错的事情提供反馈，或者有一个奖金结构，以便在游戏中存在皮肤。
Why does it make it less romantic to look at our relationship that way?
为什么这样看待我们的关系会变得不那么浪漫呢？
To say, "Hey, it's important to check in on this stuff.
说：“嘿，检查这些东西很重要。
It's important to have routine preventative maintenance on this thing." If you said to me, "Oh, I'm taking my car for an oil change." You'd be like, "What?
对这件事进行例行预防性维护很重要。”如果你对我说，“哦，我要带我的车去换机油。”你会说，“什么？
You don't have faith in your car?" No. "What, you have a cheap car?" No. Of course, preventative maintenance makes sense.
你对你的车没有信心吗？” 不。“什么，你有一辆便宜的车？” 不。当然，预防性维护是有道理的。
It's a whole lot better than waiting for there to be a problem and then trying to fix the problem.
这比等待问题出现然后尝试解决问题要好得多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I think it's this business of egos, right?
嗯，我认为这是自负的事情，对吗？
There's something in the, quote unquote, traditional courtship dance-
传统的求爱舞蹈中有一些东西——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that is about sort of before people are critiquing one another, before people are commenting on the things that aren't working, where it's a false reality, right?
那是在人们互相批评之前，在人们评论那些不起作用的事情之前，这是一个错误的现实，对吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That you're only seeing the good, they're only seeing the good.
你只看到好的一面，他们也只看到好的一面。
And it feels good.
而且感觉很好。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Well, sure, what wouldn't feel good about only seeing the good?
好吧，当然，只看到好的一面有什么感觉不好呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
The previews is the best part of the movie.
预告片是这部电影最精彩的部分。
If you watch the previews and you go, "Oh my God, that preview was good." Haven't you ever seen a preview and gone, "Oh my God, I can't wait to see that movie," and then you see the movie and you're like, "That sucked." The only good scenes were the things that were in the preview, in that two-minute preview.
如果你看了预告片，你会说：“天啊，那个预告片太棒了。”你有没有看过预览然后说：“天哪，我迫不及待地想看那部电影，”然后你看到这部电影，你会说，“太糟糕了。”唯一好的场景是预览中的东西，在那两分钟的预览中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Okay.
好的。
Well, what do you think courtship is?
那么，你认为求爱是什么？
Courtship's the preview.
求爱是预览。
By the way, and if the preview sucks, the movie's really going to suck.
顺便说一句，如果预览很糟糕，那么电影真的会很糟糕。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Relationships are more like "The Deer Hunter" or something.
人际关系更像是“猎鹿人”之类的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're long-
他们长——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
They're long
它们很长
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and they're complicated, and there's-
它们很复杂，还有——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And there's moments in it that you kind of go like, "I don't know what the point of this is, but I'm in for the ride, so let's do it," right?
有时你会想，“我不知道这有什么意义，但我愿意参与其中，所以让我们开始吧，”对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Hats off to anyone that got through "The Deer Hunter." It's a great movie.
向所有看完《猎鹿人》的人致敬。这是一部很棒的电影。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But it's really long.
但确实很长。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But yeah, it takes some time to get through it.
但是，是的，需要一些时间来克服它。
Let's talk about movies, and as a serious thing.
让我们来谈谈电影吧，而且是严肃的事情。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A couple of years ago, I saw you on a podcast and you were talking about the movie, "True Romance."
几年前，我在播客上看到你，你正在谈论电影《真正的浪漫》。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, sure.
哦，当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Love that movie.
喜欢那部电影。
Anyone that was a teen or in their 20s in the '90s will remember that movie.
90 年代的任何青少年或 20 多岁的人都会记得这部电影。
Everyone should see that movie who's old enough and mature enough to see it.
每个足够老、足够成熟的人都应该看那部电影。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I get so excited when anybody knows that movie.
当有人知道那部电影时我感到非常兴奋。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's just such an awesome movie.
这真是一部很棒的电影。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
There's so much in it.
里面有很多东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the cast is amazing.
演员阵容也很棒。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Gary Oldman.
加里·奥德曼。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Gary Oldman, greatest scene in history.
加里·奥德曼，史上最伟大的一幕。
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Brad Pitt.
布拉德·皮特。
Michael Rapaport's hilarious in that movie.
迈克尔·拉帕波特在那部电影中很搞笑。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Phenomenal.
非凡的。
Brad Pitt is in it.
布拉德·皮特也在其中。
He has a little scene in it.
他里面有一个小场景。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think Quentin Tarantino makes a cameo.
我认为昆汀·塔伦蒂诺会客串。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Quentin Tarantino might make a cameo.
昆汀·塔伦蒂诺可能会客串。
He wrote it.
他写的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He makes a cameo.
他客串了一个。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Anyway, incredible movie.
不管怎样，令人难以置信的电影。
And Patricia Arquette, who's just awesome.
还有帕特里夏·阿奎特，她太棒了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And Christian Slater at his coolest.
还有最酷的克里斯蒂安·斯莱特。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Very cool movie.
非常酷的电影。
And you made the excellent point, which doesn't give away the plot, so no spoiler alert necessary, which is that the essence of the movie is really about someone seeing something or a collection of things in somebody and just thinking that they're awesome.
你提出了一个很好的观点，这并没有泄露情节，所以没有必要剧透警报，这就是电影的本质实际上是关于某人看到某人的某些东西或某些东西的集合，并只是认为它们很棒。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't want to give away any more than that.
我不想放弃更多。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And just that kind of appreciation for quirkiness and uniqueness.
正是这种对古怪和独特的欣赏。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
The two protagonists of the film, without giving anything away, are deeply flawed.
这部电影的两个主角，没有透露任何信息，都存在严重缺陷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
They're deeply flawed.
他们有很深的缺陷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
By any traditional definition-
按照任何传统的定义——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
they are not something that you would go, "Oh, this is the perfect romantic partner." It's actually quite the opposite.
他们不是你会说的“哦，这是完美的浪漫伴侣”。事实上恰恰相反。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, their histories alone are reason to walk away.
是的，他们的历史本身就是离开的理由。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
On paper, there's a lot of reasons to just walk away from this person.
从表面上看，有很多理由离开这个人。
And they meet, and there is this instant true romance.
他们相遇了，瞬间产生了真正的浪漫。
There is this sense of, I see you for what you actually are, and all that negative stuff on paper, that means nothing because that's not who you are.
有一种感觉，我看到了你真正的样子，所有那些纸上的负面东西，毫无意义，因为那不是你。
I see who you are, and I'm cheering for you.
我知道你是谁，我为你欢呼。
And you are so cool.
你太酷了。
That's the reality.
这就是现实。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And that to me, movie still stands up for that reason, because it's this sense of being seen With all your warts and all, and just being, "I see you and you see me, and it's you and me.
对我来说，电影仍然因为这个原因而站得住脚，因为它是一种被看到你所有的缺点和一切的感觉，并且只是存在，“我看到你，你也看到我，这是你和我。
It's you and me.
是你和我。
Let's do this.
让我们这样做吧。
Let's hold hands and walk this thing together, and it's a game you cannot win, and we're going to play it to the utmost.
让我们手牵着手，一起走这件事，这是一场你无法获胜的游戏，我们将竭尽全力。
Let's just play this thing through." And, it doesn't get better than that.
让我们把这件事玩完吧。”而且，没有比这更好的了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, you nailed it.
是的，你成功了。
You nailed the description.
你把描述搞清楚了。
I feel that in contrast to how you described, I think very aptly, social media as an advertisement of a life to aspire to, even if it's not possible to have.
我觉得与你所描述的相反，我认为社交媒体是一种向往的生活的广告，即使这是不可能的。
I felt for a long while that movies and television and books and music were advertisements for exactly what you just described.
很长一段时间我都觉得电影、电视、书籍和音乐都是你刚才描述的广告。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The uniqueness and the quirkiness of relationships that are not typical.
不典型的关系的独特性和古怪性。
There's nothing generic about them-
他们没有什么共同之处——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
even if the decision to...
即使决定...
The bond, the legal bond, the marriage.
债券，法律债券，婚姻。
Marriage is marriage is marriage is marriage.
婚姻就是婚姻，婚姻就是婚姻。
There are some subtleties depending on state and conditions-
根据状态和条件，有一些微妙之处 -
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but each one of those is unique.
但其中每一个都是独一无二的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The right people found one another.
对的人找到了彼此。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, there's something really quite beautiful and special about that picture, right?
那么，这张照片确实非常美丽和特别，对吗？
True romance, right?
真正的浪漫，对吧？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As seeing the quirkiness, the everyday things, and-
当看到古怪的事物、日常的事物，以及——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
as you said, a teammate perspective.
正如你所说，从队友的角度来看。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
One plus one equals three.
一加一等于三。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
There's tremendous value to that.
这有巨大的价值。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Tremendous value.
价值巨大。
That's in very stark contrast to what I think many people experience now, where they have their relationship, but then they also have visual and movie access to all these other relationships in the form of social media.
这与我认为许多人现在经历的情况形成鲜明对比，他们拥有自己的关系，但他们也可以通过社交媒体的形式通过视觉和电影访问所有其他关系。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're always being presented with other options of at least how things exist for other people.
他们总是会面临其他选择，至少对于其他人来说事情是如何存在的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so I believe, again, the biologist in me, thinks this sets a kind of a yearning for something that one doesn't have.
因此，我再次相信，作为一名生物学家，我认为这引发了一种对人们所没有的东西的渴望。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because ultimately, all the good stuff we've talked about, whether or not it's dogs or a person-
因为归根结底，我们谈论的所有好东西，无论是狗还是人——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or the pizza story, the creamer story-
或者披萨的故事，奶精的故事——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
whatever, is about basking in the completeness of what one already has-
不管怎样，就是享受一个人已经拥有的完整性——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
as opposed to needing more or wanting more.
而不是需要更多或想要更多。
So would you say that social media, I teach on social media, you're on social media-
那么你会说社交媒体吗？我在社交媒体上教课，你在社交媒体上——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but let's be honest, that it in some way may be poisonous to things like-
但说实话，它在某种程度上可能对像这样的东西有毒——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
100%
100%
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
appreciation, fidelity.
欣赏，忠诚。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Of course.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not just because you can meet people there, but because-
不仅因为你可以在那里结识朋友，还因为——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No
否
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of the yearning that it creates.
它所创造的渴望。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Look, while you were saying that, all I could reflect on was a prior conversation you had on a podcast about pornography and the effect that it has on us and our perception of sex, our dopamine, all these other things.
听着，当你这么说的时候，我所能想到的就是你之前在播客上关于色情内容的对话，以及它对我们以及我们对性、多巴胺和所有其他事物的看法的影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, because young guys are writing to me about this all the time.
是的，因为年轻人一直在写信给我谈论这件事。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Rom-coms are porn.
浪漫喜剧是色情片。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
That's all rom-- Listen, I'm not saying that there's not a purpose in having an ideal, a romanticized ideal, but most romantic comedies are not true romance, a story about two flawed characters who find...
这就是浪漫——听着，我并不是说拥有一个理想、一个浪漫化的理想是没有目的的，但大多数浪漫喜剧都不是真正的浪漫，一个关于两个有缺陷的角色发现……的故事。
Most rom-coms are like an ideal.
大多数浪漫喜剧都像是一个理想。
They're a romanticized ideal, that, by the way, ends before reality can kick in.
顺便说一句，它们是一种浪漫化的理想，在现实到来之前就结束了。
So if you think Jack, I forget what Kate Winslet's character was on "Titanic," but if you think he'd lived at the end of "Titanic," that a few years later she wouldn't be like, "All right, enough painting the French girls.
所以，如果你想到杰克，我忘记凯特·温斯莱特在《泰坦尼克号》中扮演的角色是什么，但如果你认为他生活在《泰坦尼克号》的结尾，那么几年后她就不会说，“好吧，画法国女孩就够了。
You got to get a job, buddy." You're telling me...
你必须找到一份工作，伙计。”你是在告诉我...
Most of these movies, these rom-coms, they end at the high, "I love you, I've always loved you." "I love you, too," and then it ends.
大多数这些电影，这些浪漫喜剧，它们的结局都很高，“我爱你，我一直爱你。” “我也爱你”，然后就结束了。
They don't ever have to live together.
他们不必住在一起。
You don't have to ever see the actual reality of them at Trader Joe's waiting on the line, arguing over what to...
你不必亲眼目睹他们在 Trader Joe's 排队等候、争论该做什么的真实情况……
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He doesn't find someone else.
他没有找别人。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
He doesn't find somebody else.
他没有找到其他人。
He's not sitting on the couch scrolling when she's trying to talk to him.
当她试图和他说话时，他并没有坐在沙发上滚动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, in this video, so she would've expired the age limit.
好吧，在这个视频中，所以她已经超过了年龄限制。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right, absolutely.
对，绝对是。
It's like Menudo.
就像梅努多一样。
You turn 20-
你20岁了——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm going to get in trouble for that one
我会因此而惹上麻烦的
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
you're out.
你出去了。
Sorry.
对不起。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm going to get in trouble for that one.
我会因此而惹上麻烦的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, I think it's not public knowledge.
嗯，我认为这不是公众知识。
So I think at the end of the day, what's really core here is, look, I'm not saying let's get rid of pornography.
所以我认为归根结底，这里真正的核心是，听着，我并不是说让我们摆脱色情内容。
I have two sons.
我有两个儿子。
They're adults now.
他们现在都是成年人了。
But when they were young, they got to a certain age, they had phones, they had iPads, we had the internet, and I was like, "They're going to encounter pornography because it's coming at them in a way that it did not come at me when I was that age." When I was that age, you had to trade a bunch of things.
但当他们年轻的时候，他们到了一定的年龄，他们有手机，他们有iPad，我们有互联网，我当时想，“他们会遇到色情内容，因为它以一种我在那个年龄时不会出现的方式出现在他们身上。”当我那个年纪的时候，你必须交易很多东西。
You had to get someone's dad's porn magazine for a day so that you could look at it.
你必须拿到某人父亲的色情杂志一天才能看。
You couldn't just log on to any device and be inundated with any kind of kink you wanted to see.
你不能只是登录到任何设备就被你想看到的任何类型的问题所淹没。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it's inconceivable.
是的，这是不可思议的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's not even fathomable.
这甚至是不可理解的。
And I don't know what effect, you know better than I do, and you've spoken eloquently about it, about the effect that has on the organism.
我不知道什么影响，你比我更清楚，你已经雄辩地谈到了它，关于对有机体的影响。
But here's what I will tell you.
但这就是我要告诉你的。
It definitely creates in people a perce...
它确实给人们创造了一种感觉...
If your sex education is pornography, you're going to have a really hard time navigating an actual sexual relationship.
如果你的性教育是色情内容，那么你将很难驾驭真正的性关系。
And by the way, I've seen pornography, and I've had sex.
顺便说一句，我看过色情作品，也发生过性行为。
Sex is not like it is in pornography, but it's great.
性不像色情片中那样，但它很棒。
It's still so fun.
还是那么有趣。
It's the most fun thing.
这是最有趣的事情了。
So I don't know why anybody would, "Oh, we got to make it better." Sex is great.
所以我不知道为什么有人会说，“哦，我们必须让它变得更好。”性爱很棒。
It's great.
这很棒。
Sex sells sex.
性出卖性。
You don't need to put all that on it.
你不需要把所有这些都放在上面。
I understand why.
我明白为什么。
Yes, of course.
是的当然。
It's just like what they do to french fries at a fast food restaurant.
这就像他们在快餐店吃炸薯条一样。
They figure out ways to make them more addictive.
他们找到了让自己更容易上瘾的方法。
I get it.
我得到它。
But same thing with rom-coms.
但浪漫喜剧也是如此。
Rom-coms is an idealized, stylized version of the best part of all of it.
浪漫喜剧是其中最好的部分的理想化、风格化版本。
Just like porn.
就像色情片一样。
So, if you make your relationship, your sexual relationship, based on pornography or what looks good in movies, you're setting yourself up for heartbreak.
所以，如果你的关系、你的性关系是基于色情或电影中看起来不错的东西，那么你就会让自己心碎。
So, same thing with rom-coms.
所以，浪漫喜剧也是如此。
Same thing with the, "I've met my soulmate, and that's my soulmate," and then where it's perfect, and it stays perfect, and if it's not perfect, then they mustn't have been my soulmate.
同样的事情，“我遇到了我的灵魂伴侣，那就是我的灵魂伴侣”，然后它是完美的，并且它保持完美，如果它不完美，那么他们一定不是我的灵魂伴侣。
All that is is pornography.
所有这些都是色情内容。
All that is is taking the dream life, the stylized perfect parts, showing just that, and then convincing people that's what it's supposed to look like, and if it doesn't look like that, you're not having a satisfying time.
所有这一切都是为了实现梦想的生活，程式化的完美部分，展示出来，然后让人们相信它应该是什么样子，如果它看起来不是那样，你就不会度过令人满意的时光。
The reality is that people are flawed, but we want the same thing.
现实是人都是有缺陷的，但我们想要的都是一样的。
I don't believe that the path of like, I'm going to own 50...
我不相信这条路，我会拥有 50...
You and I both know men who own every car you could ever want and could sleep with any number of gorgeous women three, four at a time if they want to, and they're unhappy.
你和我都认识一些男人，他们拥有你想要的每一辆车，并且可以与任意数量的漂亮女人上床，如果他们愿意的话，一次可以睡三、四个，但他们并不快乐。
They're desperately unhappy.
他们非常不高兴。
I represent people who have a net worth of you and I combined times 100, and they're miserable because they don't have love.
我代表的是那些你和我的净资产加起来100倍的人，他们因为没有爱而痛苦。
They don't have this basic connection with another person.
他们与另一个人没有这种基本的联系。
They don't have the sense of who they are as an object of someone's love and the worth that comes with it, which by the way, is foundational.
他们不知道自己是谁，作为某人爱的对象，也不知道随之而来的价值，顺便说一句，这是基础。
Look at a baby.
看看一个婴儿。
Look at a baby and look at how they look at their mother.
看看婴儿，看看他们是如何看待母亲的。
Mom is the name of God on the lips of children.
妈妈是孩子们口中的上帝之名。
There's something about like, "This thing loves me and wants what's best for me." We come out half-formed, and there's this person that just loves us, right?
有点像，“这个东西爱我，想要给我最好的。”我们还没成形，就有一个人爱我们，对吧？
And so, of course, we're always looking to find that again, that kind of love and that kind of connection.
所以，当然，我们总是希望再次找到那种爱和那种联系。
And there are people that find it, but the way they find it is not through fairy tales.
有人找到了它，但他们找到它的方式并不是通过童话故事。
It's not through the romanticized version of pornography.
这不是通过色情作品的浪漫化版本。
It's through realism.
这是通过现实主义。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think one of the reasons why I hear from so many young men about their challenges with pornography, which tells me that they've defaulted to pornography or that there are elements of it that have gotten them, quote-unquote, "addicted" or at least-
我认为我听到这么多年轻人谈论他们对色情作品的挑战的原因之一，这告诉我他们已经默认了色情作品，或者其中的某些元素让他们“上瘾”，或者至少是——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a compulsive way with it.
一种强迫性的方式。
And I also frankly hear from a lot of women that are frustrated with men dating apps and this kind of thing-
坦率地说，我还听到很多女性对男性约会应用程序和此类事情感到沮丧——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is that people are very afraid, I think, in large part because of what you're describing with social media and other forms of media, but also just by virtue of the way that everything is shared-
我认为，人们非常害怕，很大程度上是因为你所描述的社交媒体和其他形式的媒体，但也只是因为一切的共享方式——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
so much now that people are afraid to reveal any kind of flaws or authenticity-
现在人们害怕透露任何缺陷或真实性——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in themselves, unless it's the kind that they can leverage to make themselves seem more attractive or something.
除非他们可以利用这种方式让自己看起来更有吸引力或者其他什么。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because if they go out on a date or, let's say they share a first kiss or something, that if they're not a great kisser, that-
因为如果他们出去约会，或者，假设他们分享初吻或其他什么，如果他们不是一个很棒的接吻者，那么——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
she's going to tell all her friends or worse, put it on an app or something-
她会告诉她所有的朋友，或者更糟糕的是，把它放在应用程序或其他东西上-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where his name is named.
他的名字就在那里。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or he's going to sleep with her and-
或者他会和她一起睡觉然后-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then might even share photos of it with people covertly.
然后甚至可能偷偷地与人们分享它的照片。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Things that are-
事情是——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And that's real
这是真的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
illegal/just breaches of trust.
非法/公正的违反信任行为。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The contract of trust that is purely, I don't know, for lack of a better word, is kind of a spiritual contract where you say-
我不知道，由于缺乏更好的词，纯粹的信任契约是一种精神契约，你可以说——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
"Hey, listen.
“嘿，听着。
I don't know if this is going to work.
我不知道这是否会起作用。
You don't know if this is going to work."
你不知道这是否有效。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm willing to wager in a healthy way some of my own safety by revealing some things that aren't super great about myself.
我愿意以健康的方式通过揭露一些关于我自己不太好的事情来赌我自己的安全。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And maybe you'll do the same or maybe you won't, and I'll just feel okay just with the way it lands.
也许你会做同样的事，也许你不会，而我只是对它的着陆方式感到满意。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That seems more rare nowadays.
如今，这种情况似乎更加罕见。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Because it's brave.
因为它很勇敢。
It's brave.
真是勇敢啊。
I grew up, I wanted to be brave.
我长大了，我想变得勇敢。
I aspired to being brave.
我渴望变得勇敢。
My heroes growing up were from Last of the Mohicans, right?
我成长过程中的英雄来自最后的莫西干人，对吗？
Le Long Carabine.
勒龙卡宾枪。
They were samurai, in the films, like the Miyamoto Musashi films, all those kinds of films.
他们是电影中的武士，比如宫本武藏的电影，所有这些类型的电影。
And so if you're not scared, it's not brave.
所以，如果你不害怕，就不算勇敢。
It's only brave if you're scared and you do it anyway.
只有当你害怕并且无论如何都去做的时候，这才是勇敢的。
That's the thing that makes it brave.
这就是让它变得勇敢的原因。
And that's the thing we're not teaching young men anymore, is it's like, yeah, it's scary.
这就是我们不再教年轻人的事情，就是，是的，这很可怕。
It's so much easier to just be like, "Yeah, women don't mean anything.
简单地说，“是的，女人没有任何意义。
Women, they're disposable.
女人，都是一次性的。
They're like iPhones.
它们就像 iPhone。
I'll get a new one.
我会买一件新的。
It'll have different features.
它将具有不同的功能。
It'll be great." You think Andrew Tate's brave?
会很棒的。”你认为安德鲁·泰特很勇敢吗？
Andrew Tate's brave because he fights Muay Thai.
安德鲁·泰特很勇敢，因为他打泰拳。
That's brave.
真是勇敢啊。
That's brave.
真是勇敢啊。
Even ground with another man, bare hands, let's do this thing.
即使和另一个人一起磨地，赤手空拳，我们也能做到这一点。
Yeah, that's brave.
是的，这很勇敢。
But having a bunch of women and sort of not committing to any of them, not having being vulnerable to any of them, what's brave about it?
但是，拥有一群女人，却不对她们中的任何一个做出承诺，也不会对她们中的任何一个表现出脆弱，这有什么勇敢呢？
There's nothing brave about that.
这没什么勇敢的。
What's brave is, I'm going to give you the ammo to hurt me.
勇敢的是，我会给你弹药来伤害我。
I'm going to give you the ability to hurt me.
我会给你伤害我的能力。
And I'm going to do it anyway.
无论如何我都会这么做。
And I'm scared, but I'm going to do it anyway.
我很害怕，但无论如何我都会这么做。
And that's what makes it brave.
这就是它勇敢的原因。
And I think that that's the thing we've just lost in this culture.
我认为这就是我们在这种文化中刚刚失去的东西。
And that's where I think it's so backwards.
这就是我认为它非常落后的地方。
That we go, well, a prenup's antithetical, it goes to the opposite direction.
我们去，嗯，婚前协议的对立面，它走向相反的方向。
Because a prenup is you're saying, "Well, I don't believe in this thing.
因为婚前协议就是你说：“好吧，我不相信这件事。
It only works if you..." That's insane.
只有当你……”这才有效。这太疯狂了。
That's insane to say that if you take any precautions at all or give anything, or by the way, more accurately, that if you don't trust it to the legislature of your state, that you're not being brave.
如果你采取任何预防措施或提供任何东西，或者顺便说一句，更准确地说，如果你不信任你所在州的立法机构，那么你就不够勇敢，这是疯狂的。
That's insane.
那太疯狂了。
It's brave to merge your destiny with that of another person.
将自己的命运与另一个人的命运融合在一起是勇敢的。
It's brave to let someone see what you're afraid of, what you hope for, and aspire to.
让别人看到你害怕什么、希望什么、向往什么，这就是勇敢。
Those are all, divorce is intimacy weaponized.
就这些，离婚是亲密的武器。
And I say it as someone who's been in the room with thousands of people going through it, and I mean the pain and terror of this person who in hushed tones you whispered to them all the things you're most afraid of when you trusted them more than anyone, and now they're going to use that against you in a public forum, in a courtroom.
我是作为一个在房间里与成千上万的人一起经历过这一切的人说这句话的，我指的是这个人的痛苦和恐惧，当你比任何人都信任他们时，你低声向他们低声诉说你最害怕的事情，而现在他们将在公共论坛、法庭上用这些来对付你。
My God, man.
天哪，伙计。
Thank God I have no idea what that feels like to have done to me.
感谢上帝，我不知道这对我做了什么感觉。
It must be horrible.
这一定很可怕。
But again, is it worth it to try?
但话又说回来，值得一试吗？
Is it worth it?
值得吗？
Yes, but I think having conversations from the beginning about, listen We've got to figure out, is this the kind of person who's going to hurt?
是的，但我认为从一开始就进行对话，听着，我们必须弄清楚，这是一种会受到伤害的人吗？
If you're mad at me, if I tell you something you don't want to hear, are you going to throw at me these intimate things I shared with you?
如果你生我的气，如果我告诉你一些你不想听的事情，你会把我与你分享的这些私密的事情扔给我吗？
Because if you are, pull the rip cord now and get out.
因为如果你是，现在就拉开绳子然后出去。
Get out.
出去。
I've had guys come to me, successful people come to me and say, "Yeah, I told her I want a prenup," and she was like, "Well, if we have a prenup, I'm leaving.
有些人来找我，成功的人来找我说，“是的，我告诉她我想要一份婚前协议，”她说，“好吧，如果我们有婚前协议，我就会离开。
That's it." I'm like, "Okay.
就是这样。”我想，“好吧。
Then let her leave, man." Because if you're saying, "I love you.
那么就让她离开吧，伙计。”因为如果你说：“我爱你。
I love you more than anyone in the world, and I'll love you forever." "Great.
我比世界上任何人都爱你，而且我会永远爱你。” “太好了。
Could we sign this contract?" "Absolutely not." "But then that's it.
我们可以签这份合同吗？” “绝对不是。” “但就是这样了。
I don't even want to see you again." Wow, that changed fast.
我什至不想再见到你。”哇，变化太快了。
Because a minute ago, you loved me more than anything in the world, and you would never let me go under any circumstances, and you'd never hurt me.
因为就在一分钟前，你爱我胜过世上的一切，在任何情况下你都不会放开我，你也不会伤害我。
And now I just told you that there's a financial concern I have about letting the legislature make decisions about our future, and you've now decided you don't even like me anymore, and we're out?
现在我刚刚告诉你，让立法机关对我们的未来做出决定，我有一个财务问题，而你现在决定不再喜欢我了，然后我们就出去了？
That's a hell of a jump.
这是一个地狱般的跳跃。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, good data there.
是的，那里有很好的数据。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
But how do you reconcile that?
但你如何协调这一点呢？
If they say, "Wow, why do you want that?
如果他们说：“哇，你为什么想要这个？
Do you not have faith in our relationship?" Now let's have a conversation.
你对我们的关系没有信心吗？”现在我们来谈谈吧。
No, of course I have faith in our relationship.
不，我当然对我们的关系有信心。
Why would I want to marry you otherwise?
不然我为什么要嫁给你呢？
And what is it you're afraid of?
你害怕什么？
Are you afraid that the contract will be lopsided?
还怕合同不平衡吗？
Because here's the thing, I want it to not be.
因为事情就是这样，我希望它不是这样。
I want to know what you're-- I was having a conversation with the trusted prenup guys, and we were talking about marketing prenups.
我想知道你在做什么——我正在和值得信赖的婚前协议专家交谈，我们正在谈论营销婚前协议。
How do you market prenups to people?
你如何向人们推销婚前协议？
And they were saying, yeah, when you talk about it deepens the relationship and connection.
他们说，是的，当你谈论它时，会加深关系和联系。
Okay, that's a very feminine aspiration.
好吧，这是一个非常女性化的愿望。
That's a good way to sell prenups to women, is to say the conversations are going to deepen the connection, and there's going to be this sense of, hey, we're talking about what we expect of each other, what we're afraid of.
这是向女性推销婚前协议的好方法，也就是说，对话将加深联系，并且会有一种感觉，嘿，我们正在谈论我们对彼此的期望，我们害怕什么。
And I was saying, well, for me, I think a great entry point for men in heterosexual relationships is to say, hey, you want your woman to feel safe.
我说，对我来说，我认为异性恋关系中男性的一个很好的切入点就是说，嘿，你希望你的女人感到安全。
She's with you, she's safe.
她和你在一起，她很安全。
Her heart is safe, her body is safe.
她的心安全了，她的身体也安全了。
You're going to keep her safe.
你会保证她的安全。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, provider, protector.
是的，提供者，保护者。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, provider, protector.
是的，提供者，保护者。
So one of the best things about being a man is the feeling of, I love that.
所以作为一个男人最好的事情之一就是这种感觉，我喜欢这种感觉。
You don't test that theory?
你不测试这个理论吗？
Say to any man, "I can't open this jar." "Okay, give me that.
对任何人说：“我打不开这个罐子。” “好吧，给我那个。
Look at that.
看看那个。
Here you go." We're thrilled for that opportunity.
给你。”我们为这个机会感到兴奋。
We all want to provide and protect.
我们都想提供和保护。
So, okay, why do we not turn the conversation about prenups into how can she feel loved if she doesn't feel safe?
那么，好吧，为什么我们不把关于婚前协议的话题变成如果她没有安全感，她怎么能感受到被爱呢？
So, okay, in that situation where he has more resources than her, and she says, "I'd like to be a mom someday," or, "There's a good chance I'd be a mom someday." So if I'm going to be the primary caretaker of our children and your career is going to stay your focus so you can provide, then you're going to get way ahead of me in the race in terms of economics.
所以，好吧，在这种情况下，他比她拥有更多的资源，而她说，“我希望有一天成为一名母亲，”或者，“有一天我很有可能成为一名母亲。”因此，如果我将成为我们孩子的主要照顾者，而你的事业将成为你的焦点，这样你就可以养家糊口，那么在经济方面，你将在竞争中远远领先于我。
So we need to figure out how we would deal with that imbalance.
因此，我们需要弄清楚如何应对这种不平衡。
Who would say that's not a fair conversation?
谁会说这不是一次公平的对话？
Who would say...
谁会说...
Now look, if you bring it up when we've decided we hate each other and the relationship is over and I've been sleeping with my secretary, okay.
现在听着，如果你在我们决定彼此讨厌并且关系结束并且我一直在和我的秘书睡觉时提出这件事，好吧。
Yeah.
是的。
Now I get why you don't want to have a fair conversation about that.
现在我明白你为什么不想就此进行公平的对话了。
But at the beginning, when we're still abundance of optimism, we're still feeling positive about this, would any man say, "Well, you're being greedy.
但一开始，当我们仍然充满乐观情绪时，我们仍然对此感到积极，有人会说：“好吧，你太贪婪了。
You're being a gold digger."
你是个淘金者。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No.
不。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No. You'd say, "Hey, listen, of course, you're going to make certain sacrifices and focus on certain things," and I rarely have ever met a couple, a happy couple, that they go, "We brought the exact same things to the relationship.
不。你会说，“嘿，听着，当然，你会做出某些牺牲并专注于某些事情，”我很少遇到一对夫妇，一对幸福的夫妇，他们会说，“我们为这段关系带来了完全相同的东西。
She's a great provider, and I'm a great provider."
她是一个伟大的供养者，我也是一个伟大的供养者。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, complementarity is what it's about.
不，互补才是重点。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Of course.
当然。
And so say that out loud to each other.
所以互相大声说出来。
Maybe you don't want to announce it to everybody and put it on your social media, but you can talk to each other privately about, hey, what do we owe each other?
也许你不想向所有人宣布并把它放在你的社交媒体上，但是你可以私下互相谈论，嘿，我们互相欠对方什么？
What do we expect of each other?
我们对彼此有什么期望？
If we split up, what should it look like?
如果我们分手了，应该是什么样子？
What would you need?
你需要什么？
What would I need?
我需要什么？
And you can talk about that in very practical ways, and I think that's actually quite romantic.
你可以用非常实际的方式来谈论这个，我认为这实际上很浪漫。
Because what you're saying is, "I want you to feel safe.
因为你所说的是：“我希望你感到安全。
I want you to feel safe," because I'll tell you, for me, even just selfishly, I don't want you here because you don't know what you're going to do economically if we split up.
我希望你感到安全，”因为我会告诉你，对我来说，即使只是自私，我也不希望你在这里，因为你不知道如果我们分手，你会在经济上做什么。
That's not a good reason to stay with me.
这不是留在我身边的好理由。
I want you to want me next to you because you like me.
我希望你希望我在你身边，因为你喜欢我。
You like having me around.
你喜欢有我在身边。
Your life is better for my presence in it on a day-to-day basis.
你的生活因我的日复一日的存在而变得更加美好。
Not that, well, who's going to pay my rent?
不是这样，那么，谁来付我的房租呢？
You know what?
你知道吗？
I'll pay your rent.
我来付你的房租。
You can have your rent paid.
您可以支付租金。
Are you still here?
你还在吗？
Because if somebody said to me the other day, "If somebody gave you $100 million, would you still do your job?
因为如果有一天有人对我说：“如果有人给你 1 亿美元，你还会做你的工作吗？
Would you still be a lawyer?" And I was like, "Absolutely." Would I do it at the level I'm doing it currently?
你还愿意当律师吗？”我当时想，“当然。”我会以目前的水平去做吗？
Would I be as stressed about it as I currently am?
我会像现在一样感到压力吗？
Probably not.
可能不会。
But I would still do the job because I love the job.
但我仍然会做这份工作，因为我热爱这份工作。
And the answer is, if you had $100 million tomorrow, would you still do the podcast?
答案是，如果你明天有 1 亿美元，你还会做播客吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
If the answer is no, stop.
如果答案是否定的，请停止。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've said this before.
我以前已经说过了。
It's still true.
这仍然是事实。
I check in with myself now and again.
我时常审视自己。
If you offered me a billion dollars-
如果你给我十亿美元——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to quit the podcast, no effing way.
退出播客，没有办法。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, I just love it.
不，我只是喜欢它。
I love my team.
我爱我的团队。
I love learning.
我热爱学习。
I love teaching.
我热爱教学。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
End of story.
故事结束。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
And by the way, let's take that further.
顺便说一句，让我们更进一步。
You get tremendous value out of it, and the people who are participating in it, audience, and the co-producers of it, all get something out of it, too.
你可以从中获得巨大的价值，参与其中的人、观众和联合制作人也都能从中得到一些东西。
This is a totally wonderful economy.
这是一个非常美妙的经济。
Everyone's getting something.
每个人都在得到一些东西。
Advertisers getting something out of it.
广告商从中得到了一些东西。
Everyone's getting something out of it.
每个人都从中有所收获。
It's like win-win-win for everybody involved.
这对每个参与者来说都是双赢。
Okay, so in the relationship between a man and a woman, or a man and a man, and a woman and a woman, because of marriage equality, in a romantic relationship, in a marriage, if you said to your partner, "I'll give you $10 million to give up this person," if the answer is, "See ya," then that's not the person to be with.
好吧，所以在一个男人和一个女人，或者一个男人和一个男人，一个女人和一个女人之间的关系中，因为婚姻平等，在恋爱关系中，在婚姻中，如果你对你的伴侣说，“我给你一千万美元来放弃这个人”，如果答案是“再见”，那么那个人就不是你要在一起的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Definitely not.
绝对不是。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Okay.
好的。
So I would rather have that conversation early on.
所以我宁愿尽早进行这样的谈话。
If you want to talk about barriers to exit...
如果你想谈论退出障碍......
By the way, you can put anything you want in a prenup.
顺便说一下，你可以在婚前协议中写下任何你想要的内容。
So you could put in financial terms in a prenup that will give this person a financial windfall.
因此，你可以在婚前协议中加入财务条款，这将为这个人带来一笔意外之财。
I had a client who was a young man in his 30s.
我有一位30多岁的年轻客户。
He was at Goldman, I can say that.
我可以这么说，他曾在高盛工作。
And he was worth $30, $40 million at the age of 30.
30岁时，他的身价为30、4000万美元。
So he was in the beginning of his career.
所以他正处于职业生涯的起步阶段。
He was going to do well in life.
他的生活会做得很好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a lot of money.
这是很多钱。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And he was marrying a yoga teacher who made no money at all.
他嫁给了一位根本不挣钱的瑜伽老师。
Stunningly beautiful, funny, brilliant, just insightful, spiritual.
令人惊叹的美丽、有趣、才华横溢、富有洞察力、有灵性。
He was very quant, very analytical, and she just lightened him up and was adventurous and fun.
他非常定量，非常善于分析，而她让他轻松起来，充满冒险精神，也很有趣。
It was very barefoot in the park.
公园里是赤脚的。
It was very like, he kind of reeled her in a little, and she pulled him out of his comfort zone, and it was a really nice coupling.
这很像，他有点把她拉进了一点，而她把他拉出了他的舒适区，这是一个非常好的结合。
And they did this prenup.
他们签订了婚前协议。
And of course, they both lawyered up with good lawyers.
当然，他们都聘请了优秀的律师。
So he hired me, and she hired a colleague of mine at a great firm in the city who I have a lot of cases with.
所以他雇用了我，她雇用了我在城里一家大公司的一位同事，我和他有很多案例。
And, the lawyers went at our thing.
而且，律师们开始处理我们的事情。
And so I put in a waiver of any alimony, spousal support, and the other side came back and said, "No, no. If they're married this many years, it's this percent, and if it's this many years, it's that percent." So I go to my client, because this is kind of a negotiation, but it's with a person who he's then going home to every night because they're cohabitating already.
所以我放弃了任何赡养费、配偶赡养费，对方回来说：“不，不。如果他们结婚这么多年，就是这个百分比，如果结婚了这么多年，就是那个百分比。”所以我去找我的客户，因为这是一种谈判，但这是和一个他每天晚上回家的人在一起，因为他们已经同居了。
And I say to him, "Listen, they want this structure and this amount for it." And he goes, "Yeah, just put $5 million." I was like, "I'm sorry.
我对他说：“听着，他们想要这个结构和这个金额。”他说：“是的，只要投入 500 万美元。”我当时想，“对不起。
Wait, what?" And he goes, "Yeah, if we get divorced, she gets $5 million." I was like, "Wait, if you get divorced in a month because she's sleeping with her tennis instructor, she gets $5 million?" And he's like, "Yeah, you know what?
等等，什么？”他说：“是的，如果我们离婚，她会得到 500 万美元。”我当时想，“等等，如果你因为她和网球教练上床而在一个月内离婚，她会得到 500 万美元？”他说：“是的，你知道吗？
If we get divorced, I got bigger problems.
如果我们离婚的话，我的问题就更大了。
If she's staying, I'll know she likes me more than $5 million, so that's good."
如果她留下来，我就会知道她对我的喜爱程度超过 500 万美元，所以这很好。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Good for him.
对他有好处。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I thought, you know what?
我想，你知道吗？
That is gangster in a good way.
这是一个很好的黑帮。
I loved that.
我喜欢那个。
And they're still married.
他们仍然结婚了。
And that was probably 10 years ago.
那可能是10年前的事了。
And they've got a couple kids now.
他们现在有几个孩子了。
And in that moment, I remember thinking, "Yeah, they're going to be fine, probably, these two."
在那一刻，我记得我在想，“是的，他们两个可能会没事的。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It never hurts, and it often helps to be generous.
慷慨从来没有坏处，而且往往会有所帮助。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sometimes generosity, people will look back on their generosity and...
有时慷慨，人们会回顾自己的慷慨，然后......
Actually, no. I can't think of a single instance where I was maybe even pushed myself to be a bit more generous than-
事实上，没有。我想不出有任何一个例子我什至会强迫自己比——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
my impulse at the time would've had me be-
我当时的冲动会让我——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and didn't think in retrospect that was the right thing to do.
事后看来，这并不是正确的做法。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I haven't dealt with circumstances of, A, having that much money, or B-
我没有处理过 A、有那么多钱，或者 B-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
doing a prenup.
做婚前协议。
But-
但是——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, if you have that much money, it doesn't really mean anything anymore.
好吧，如果你有那么多钱，那就没什么意义了。
I have a couple of billionaire clients.
我有几个亿万富翁客户。
One of my clients is worth $8 billion.
我的一位客户身价 80 亿美元。
It's like Stalin said, "The death of one is a tragedy.
正如斯大林所说：“一个人的死亡是一场悲剧。
The death of a million is a statistic."
一百万人的死亡是一个统计数字。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oof.
噢。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I think if I said to you, "Andrew, great news.
我想如果我对你说：“安德鲁，好消息。
You've won $150 million.
您赢得了 1.5 亿美元。
I'm sorry, $130 million," you wouldn't go, "Ah, shit."
抱歉，1.3 亿美元，”你不会说，“啊，操。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
The numbers on a page are numbers on a page at some point.
页面上的数字是页面上某个时刻的数字。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It starts to feel like a drop in the ocean.
它开始感觉就像沧海一粟。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
You couldn't possibly spend that amount of money.
你不可能花那么多钱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
The amount of money that money makes on an annual basis just in interest alone is insane.
仅靠利息每年就能赚到的钱是疯狂的。
So-
所以——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, the joy in being generous is the opportunity, at least in this instance or something parallel to it, is the opportunity to do something that, for someone else, would be quite meaningful-
好吧，慷慨的乐趣是有机会，至少在这种情况下或与之类似的情况下，是有机会做一些对其他人来说非常有意义的事情——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and for you, just feels good to do.
对你来说，这样做感觉很好。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One would hope that he didn't say give her $5 million because $5 million didn't feel like anything.
人们会希望他没有说给她500万美元，因为500万美元感觉没什么。
If he's got $30 million-
如果他有3000万美元——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No, I think he felt-
不，我想他感觉——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
He felt that was not his reason.
他觉得这不是他的理由。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
$5 million is $5 million.
500万美元就是500万美元。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
This is not a man who did not take money seriously.
这不是一个不把钱当回事的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No.
不。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
He made his bones in it.
他把骨头扎进去了。
But I think what he was saying is, well, there's no way that $5 million isn't enough for her to be okay.
但我认为他的意思是，好吧，500 万美元绝对不足以让她好起来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I want her to be okay.
我希望她一切都好。
I want her to be safe.
我希望她安全。
I want her to feel-
我想让她感觉——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was an act of care.
这是一种关怀之举。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
And he was saying, because look, when you marry someone the right way, or even cohabitate with someone, or even get in a relationship with someone, you're kind of handing them a dagger and saying, "Okay.
他说，因为看，当你以正确的方式与某人结婚，甚至与某人同居，甚至与某人建立关系时，你就相当于递给他们一把匕首，然后说：“好吧。
Here you go.
给你。
If you want to, it's yours.
如果你愿意，它就是你的。
If you want to stab me with that, here it is.
如果你想用它刺伤我，就在这里。
Here's my soft spots.
这是我的软肋。
I'm going to show you where they all are, and I'm giving you that." And again, I think that's the bravest thing in the world, and I think it's the coolest thing in the world.
我会告诉你他们都在哪里，我会把它给你。”再说一遍，我认为这是世界上最勇敢的事情，我认为这是世界上最酷的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
I've done it a number of times.
我已经做过很多次了。
Sometimes it ends well, sometimes it doesn't end well.
有时候结局很好，有时候结局不太好。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I'll tell you-
但我会告诉你——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And by the way, with enough time, both of those, there's something really beautiful about them.
顺便说一句，如果有足够的时间，这两件事都会有一些非常美丽的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've been reflecting on this a lot lately, and I don't want to pivot it to my unique circumstances, but since I was, probably since I was an embryo, but since I was old enough to remember, I'm interested and on the adventure of life.
我最近对此进行了很多反思，我不想将其与我独特的情况联系起来，但从我开始，可能从我还是个胚胎开始，但自从我已经足够大了，可以记住，我就对生命的冒险感兴趣。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And trying to get through those-
并试图克服这些——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, and you're a romantic at heart.
嗯，你内心是个浪漫的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
That's a function of our...
这是我们的功能...
Our friendship is born of the fact that I think you're a romantic at heart, and I think the people who have had their ass kicked by love and still go, "Yeah, I'm going to do it again.
我们的友谊源于这样一个事实：我认为你内心是一个浪漫的人，我认为那些被爱情踢得屁滚尿流的人仍然会说：“是的，我会再做一次。
Let's do it."
让我们开始吧。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Put me back in.
把我放回去吧
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, put me back in.
是啊，把我放回去吧。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And by the way, that's the statistic that everybody forgets, which is 56% of marriages end in divorce, and 85% of people who get divorced are remarried within five years.
顺便说一句，这是每个人都忘记的统计数据，即 56% 的婚姻以离婚告终，85% 的离婚者在五年内再婚。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's an incredible statistic.
这是一个令人难以置信的统计数据。
And-
还有——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's an incredible statistic.
这是一个令人难以置信的统计数据。
And usually I do their prenup.
通常我会做他们的婚前协议。
I tell all of my clients, by the way, that if I did your litigated divorce, I will do any prenup for you for any subsequent marriage for free.
顺便说一句，我告诉我所有的客户，如果我为你们办理了诉讼离婚，我将免费为你们以后的婚姻做婚前协议。
And I've only had three clients take me up on it.
而且我只有三个客户接受我。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So people are braver than one might think.
所以人们比人们想象的要勇敢。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I think so.
我想是的。
Look, I think discretion is the better part of all valor.
听着，我认为谨慎是所有勇气中最好的部分。
So I think I'm a fan of bravery, but I'm also a pragmatic human being, and I think there is value in saying, "Okay.
所以我认为我是勇敢的粉丝，但我也是一个务实的人，我认为说“好吧。
Let's dive into this thing.
让我们深入探讨一下这件事。
Let's do it brave." But see, again, I think bravery on the front end, which is bravely having a conversation about What does this look like if we hurt each other?
让我们勇敢地去做吧。”但是，再看一次，我认为前端的勇敢，就是勇敢地进行对话，如果我们互相伤害，这会是什么样子？
What if we end up like the majority of people?
如果我们最终像大多数人一样怎么办？
What do we do?
我们该怎么办？
What do we do?
我们该怎么办？
And there's value in that conversation.
那次谈话很有价值。
Come on.
快点。
Any heterosexual man is going to tell you they've been in a conversation with the woman in their life where she goes, "If I was missing a leg, would you still love me?" And you're like, "What?
任何异性恋男人都会告诉你，他们在生活中曾与女人交谈过，“如果我少了一条腿，你还会爱我吗？”你会说，“什么？
Where did that come from?" Because what's the person saying?
那是从哪里来的？”因为这个人在说什么？
They're saying, "Hey, if I wasn't exactly who I am, what parts of me would you have to lose for you to not love me anymore?" I understand that question for what it is.
他们说：“嘿，如果我不是原来的我，你必须失去我的哪些部分才能不再爱我？”我明白这个问题到底是什么。
To some degree, it's a thought exercise, it's anecdotal, it's funny.
在某种程度上，这是一种思维练习，它是轶事，它很有趣。
And my response to it is always, "A whole leg?
我的反应总是：“整条腿？
Forget it.
算了。
You break a nail, I'm out."
你把钉子弄断了，我就出去了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You know my response?
你知道我的反应吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd love you more.
我会更爱你。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then they go, "Wait, what are you into?"
然后他们说：“等等，你喜欢什么？”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
You'd be like, "Well, we play hopscotch.
你会说，“好吧，我们玩跳房子。
I don't know."
我不知道。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No. I think the question is such a beautiful one because-
不，我认为这个问题非常漂亮，因为——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it's a question of vulnerability, right?
这是一个脆弱性的问题，对吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's saying, "If I were..." Because generally, people aren't asking, "Hey, if I gained 50 pounds-
它说的是，“如果我……”因为一般来说，人们不会问，“嘿，如果我增重 50 磅——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
would you still love me?"
你还会爱我吗？”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A missing leg is more dramatic.
失去一条腿则更具戏剧性。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But at the same time, it preserves certain things while it-
但与此同时，它保留了某些东西，同时——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
removes a certain thing.
删除某个东西。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's very well-defined.
这是非常明确的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But I also think that there's another way to look at it.
但我也认为还有另一种看待它的方式。
So I grew up watching "L.A.
所以我是看着《洛杉矶》长大的。
Law." I think it's part of the reason why I became a lawyer is I loved that show.
法。”我认为我成为一名律师的部分原因是我喜欢那个节目。
I've tried watching it recently.
我最近尝试着观看。
It's up on one of those streaming services, and it didn't age well.
它是在其中一个流媒体服务上运行的，而且它的老化情况不太好。
But I grew up watching-
但我是看着长大的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because of a lack of political correctness by today's standards?
因为以今天的标准来看缺乏政治正确性？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
And also, some of the plots, there's gender stuff in there that you're like, "Oh my God." And it's also, as a lawyer, it's very hard as a lawyer to watch lawyer shows because you're like, "That would never happen.
而且，有些情节里有性别的东西，你会想，“天哪。”而且，作为一名律师，观看律师节目也非常困难，因为你会想，“那永远不会发生。
Objection, leading." You find yourself going like, "This is not-"
反对，领导。”你发现自己会说，“这不是——”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
None of my friends that were in Special Operations can watch a movie that-
我在特种部队的朋友都看不到这样的电影——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, exactly
是的，正是如此
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
they just can't.
他们就是不能。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's just you can't.
只是你不能。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's too painful.
太痛苦了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
It's physically painful to do it.
这样做会造成身体上的痛苦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Too painful.
太痛苦了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But I grew up watching it, and I wanted to be, Jimmy Smits played this really cool criminal defense attorney called Victor Sifuentes, and he had an earring, and I was like, "I'm going to be him." Instead, I ended up becoming Arnie Becker, which was the divorce lawyer on the show that Corbin Bernsen played him.
但我是看着它长大的，我想成为，吉米·史密茨（Jimmy Smits）扮演一位非常酷的刑事辩护律师，名叫维克多·西富恩特斯（Victor Sifuentes），他戴着耳环，我当时想，“我要成为他。”相反，我最终成为了阿尼·贝克尔（Arnie Becker），他是科尔宾·伯恩森（Corbin Bernsen）在节目中扮演的离婚律师。
And I'd never imagined that's who I would grow up to be.
我从来没想过我长大后会成为这样的人。
But it definitely created in me this love of the law.
但它确实让我产生了对法律的热爱。
But there was a character on the show named Benny, and he was developmentally disabled, and he worked in the copy room.
但剧中有一个角色名叫本尼，他患有发育障碍，在复印室工作。
And he has a crush on this secretary.
而且他还暗恋这个秘书。
And she says something to him about, "Well, I'm trying..." She's eating a salad, and he says, "Why are you eating that for lunch?
她对他说了一些话，“好吧，我正在尝试……”她正在吃沙拉，他说，“你为什么午餐吃那个？
That doesn't look very good." And she says, "Well, I want to be skinnier." And he says, "Why do you want to be skinnier?" And she says, "Well, because if I lost 20 pounds, I'd be prettier." And he says, "No, you'd just be smaller." And there's a simplicity to that that's completely honest.
这看起来不太好。”她说：“好吧，我想变得更瘦。”他说：“你为什么想变得更瘦？”她说：“好吧，因为如果我减掉 20 磅，我就会更漂亮。”他说：“不，你只是会变小而已。”而且这很简单，而且完全诚实。
Like, "No, there'd just be less of you." When someone says, "If I gained 50 pounds, would you still love me?" I hear that as both, A, a thought experiment, B, you're looking for me to reassure you how much I love you.
就像，“不，你的人数只会更少。”当有人说：“如果我胖了50磅，你还会爱我吗？”我听说，A，一个思想实验，B，你正在寻找我来向你保证我有多么爱你。
But also what you're saying is if something changed, what about me can change and what about me can't?
但你的意思是，如果有什么改变，我什么可以改变，什么不能改变？
What would be the things about me that could change?
我的哪些方面可以改变？
Because, by the way, sometimes things change totally beyond our control.
因为，顺便说一句，有时事情的变化完全超出了我们的控制范围。
The tumor is what made you gain weight.
肿瘤是导致你体重增加的原因。
It wasn't that you liked Big Macs.
并不是说你喜欢巨无霸。
So if you gained weight because you were irresponsible in your eating habits versus you gained weight because of the tumor, these are two very different circumstances.
因此，如果你的体重增加是因为你的饮食习惯不负责任，而你的体重增加是因为肿瘤，那么这是两种截然不同的情况。
But if what the person is saying is, "What do you love about me?
但如果这个人说的是：“你爱我什么？
And what about me could change, and I would lose your love potentially?" Again, what is that conversation but the prenup conversation?
如果我发生什么变化，我可能会失去你的爱？”再说一次，除了婚前协议谈话之外，那次谈话是什么？
It's what do we mean to each other?
这就是我们对彼此的意义？
What do we owe to each other?
我们彼此欠什么？
Where do we store value in this relationship?
我们在这种关系中的价值在哪里？
And when it changes, not if, when it changes, what changes can we communicate?
当它改变时，而不是如果，当它改变时，我们可以传达哪些改变？
How can we communicate about what those changes feel like?
我们如何沟通这些变化的感受？
Because here's the thing, if we're having less sex 10 years into the relationship, I don't think that's abnormal.
因为事情是这样的，如果我们在恋爱关系十年后性行为减少，我不认为这是不正常的。
When you're first dating, the amount of sex you're having and the amount of sex you're having 10 years later with two kids is probably going to be different and probably less.
当你第一次约会时，你的性行为次数和 10 年后你与两个孩子的性行为次数可能会有所不同，甚至可能更少。
Does that mean something's wrong in your relationship?
这是否意味着你们的关系出了问题？
Not necessarily.
未必。
You're also aging.
你也在变老。
That might change.
这可能会改变。
Your testosterone levels change.
您的睾丸激素水平发生变化。
Maybe her body changes when you had kids.
也许当你有了孩子后，她的身体会发生变化。
Who knows?
谁知道？
By the way, if you're having more sex, does it mean your relationship's healthy?
顺便问一下，如果你们的性生活次数增多，是否意味着你们的关系很健康？
Not necessarily.
未必。
Right?
正确的？
So the question becomes is when things change, how will we check in about it?
所以问题是，当情况发生变化时，我们将如何检查？
Because I don't think, let's just pretend everything's exactly the same and it's fine.
因为我不认为，让我们假装一切都一模一样，一切都很好。
It's fine.
没关系。
It's fine.
没关系。
I don't think that's the answer.
我认为这不是答案。
I think that's what gets us a 56% divorce rate.
我认为这就是我们离婚率高达 56% 的原因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've heard it said that men marry women thinking that they're not going to change.
我听说男人娶女人时认为她们不会改变。
Women marry men thinking they will change.
女人嫁给男人时认为他们会改变。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I think that's true.
我认为这是真的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And therein lies the challenge.
这就是挑战。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I think there's something-
我认为有一些东西——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's just a saying, but-
这只是一个说法，但是——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
There's a lot of good axioms.
有很多好的公理。
The one I've heard before that I think is similar is that women marry the man they want to spend the rest of their life with, and men marry the woman they don't want to imagine the rest of their life without.
我以前听过一个我认为相似的说法是，女人嫁给了他们想共度余生的男人，而男人嫁给了他们不想想象的余生没有的女人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's a more romantic version of it.
这是一个更浪漫的版本。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Women are parsing it in the imagined future-
女性们正在想象的未来中解析它——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
with this person, and men are thinking about the imagined future loss.
和这个人在一起，男人就会思考想象中的未来损失。
I've spent a lot of time in the room with people who have recently been caught or caught their spouse cheating.
我花了很多时间和那些最近被发现或被发现配偶出轨的人在一起。
And the most common question the man wants to know is, "Did you fuck him?" And the most common question the women want to know is, "Do you love her?" And that says something about value for those two people.
男人想知道的最常见的问题是：“你操过他吗？”女性最想知道的问题是“你爱她吗？”这说明了这两个人的价值。
Because for the man, it's like the, "Did you betray me physically," right?
因为对于男人来说，这就像“你在肉体上背叛了我”，对吧？
And for the woman, it's like, "Do I have no value to you anymore?
对于女人来说，这就像是，“我对你来说不再有价值了吗？
Do you not love me?
你不爱我吗？
Do you want this person more than you want me?" It's more about the value than the sex necessarily, right?
你想要这个人胜过想要我吗？”更重要的是价值而不是性别，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And again, I'm not saying all men, I'm not saying all women, but I think there is a sense in men, a lot of the men, I say this even in my personal relationships with male friends, that they're like, yeah, once they find someone that they're like, "Yeah, I just can't imagine her not being here." And they marry because they're like, "I got to marry her or else I'm going to lose her." I never met a guy who was like, "I can't wait for my wedding day, and I've imagined my tux, and I just can't wait." It's just not something men-- I don't know a lot of men that could dreaming of their wedding day.
再说一次，我不是说所有男人，我不是说所有女人，但我认为男人中有一种感觉，很多男人，即使在我与男性朋友的个人关系中，我也这么说，他们就像，是的，一旦他们找到了他们喜欢的人，“是的，我只是无法想象她不在这里。”他们结婚是因为他们会说，“我必须娶她，否则我就会失去她。”我从来没有遇到过一个人会说：“我已经等不及结婚那天了，我已经想象过我的礼服了，我就是等不及了。”这不是男人的事——我不知道有多少男人会梦想自己的婚礼。
Whereas I know a lot of women, again, some of that's cultural, that we've been shoving weddings down women's throats, and you get to be a princess for a day and wear the dress, and everyone's paying attention to you because the bride's the star of the show.
然而我认识很多女性，同样，其中一些是文化因素，我们一直在把婚礼塞给女性，你可以成为一天的公主，穿上礼服，每个人都在关注你，因为新娘是这场秀的明星。
I get it.
我得到它。
But there is also something about the idea that most of the men I know, they're like, "Yeah, we got married because that's what you do.
但我认识的大多数男人都会说：“是的，我们结婚是因为你就是这么做的。
You make an honest woman of her.
你使她成为一个诚实的女人。
Her parents would've killed me if we didn't get married.
如果我们不结婚，她父母就会杀了我。
Her friends were all getting married," so it's like, all of her friends, she's been a bridesmaid eight times.
她的朋友们都结婚了，”所以就像她所有的朋友一样，她已经当过八次伴娘了。
It's like, it's about time.
就好像，时间到了。
Whereas women very often it's like, where is this going?
而女性常常会想，这是要去哪里？
Where is this going?
这是要去哪里？
Are we moving it?
我们要移动它吗？
And again, there's probably a myriad of reasons, evolutionary, biological, having to do with procreation.
再说一次，可能有无数的原因，进化的、生物学的，都与繁殖有关。
There's lots of cultural, religious, there's all kinds of...
这里有很多文化、宗教、各种各样的......
But at the end, we are where we are in that equation.
但最终，我们还是处于这个等式中。
And I think marriage is something most men are like, "Okay, if that's the price, if I got to buy that ticket to take the ride, I like the ride.
我认为婚姻是大多数男人都会喜欢的事情，“好吧，如果这就是价格，如果我必须买那张票去搭乘，我喜欢这段旅程。
I don't want to lose the ride.
我不想失去旅程。
I don't want to lose this person."
我不想失去这个人。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
I'm not necessarily agreeing with you, but I can just hear the-
我不一定同意你的观点，但我可以听到——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the voices in people's heads about the, really, it's that passive for men?
人们脑海中的声音是，男人真的有那么被动吗？
It sounds almost like a passive response, like, yeah, I guess there's really no other path here, right?
这听起来几乎像是一种被动的反应，就像，是的，我想这里真的没有其他路径了，对吧？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Let me tell you something.
让我告诉你一件事。
People lie to their therapist.
人们对治疗师撒谎。
They don't lie to their divorce lawyer.
他们不会对离婚律师撒谎。
I have had 25 years of conversations with men who are ending a marriage, or starting a marriage and getting a prenup, or thinking about getting a prenup, but they're too afraid to say anything to her about it.
我和那些即将结束婚姻、开始结婚并签订婚前协议、或者考虑签订婚前协议的男人进行了 25 年的交谈，但他们太害怕了，不敢对她说任何这件事。
I've had those same things with women.
我和女人也经历过同样的事情。
I've represented roughly half, half men, half women.
我代表了大约一半，一半男性，一半女性。
And I'm telling you, you don't have to like the truth.
我告诉你，你不必喜欢真相。
The truth is the truth.
事实就是事实。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
You don't have to like-- I get it, man.
你不必喜欢——我明白，伙计。
Don't shoot the messenger.
不要向使者开枪。
That's how it is.
就是这样。
And every time I speak about these things, because they're so tied in with gender stuff, and they're so-- I know I'm putting a huge target, and everyone's like, "Oh, this guy." I don't care because here's the thing, sit in my office for a week.
每次我谈到这些事情时，因为它们与性别问题如此紧密地联系在一起，而且它们是如此——我知道我设定了一个巨大的目标，每个人都会说，“哦，这个家伙。”我不在乎，因为事情就是这样，在我的办公室坐一周。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, you're an equal opportunity assassin when it comes to these conversations.
好吧，在这些对话中，你是一个机会均等的刺客。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure, what you just said kind of puts a target on men in the sense that it makes them sound like, well, they kind of went into it because there really wasn't another trail on the mountain.
当然，你刚才所说的有点把目标放在了男人身上，从某种意义上说，这让他们听起来像是，嗯，他们进入了这件事，因为山上真的没有其他小路了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
On the other hand, there's something kind of both romantic and actually very honorable about, yeah look, there might be other options, but this is the one I like, and she really wanted this, and I wanted her, and so-
另一方面，有一些既浪漫又实际上非常光荣的东西，是的，看，可能还有其他选择，但这是我喜欢的，她真的想要这个，我想要她，所以-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that's the contract.
这就是合同。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Wait, how is that-
等等，怎么样——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's something pretty nice to that
有一些非常好的东西
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
how is that passive?
怎么这么被动？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, right.
是的，对。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
How is that passive?
怎么这么被动？
That's love.
这就是爱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's love, and it's logical.
这是爱，也是合乎逻辑的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
That's the economy of love.
这就是爱情经济。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
What, you like going to antique shows?
怎么，你喜欢看古董展？
I don't.
我不知道。
But you know what, if she wants to go, if that's something she enjoys-
但你知道吗，如果她想去，如果那是她喜欢的事情——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right, exactly
正确，完全正确
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
you think she enjoys Brazilian jujitsu tournaments?
你认为她喜欢巴西柔术锦标赛吗？
Have you smelled one?
你闻过一种吗？
Trust me.
相信我。
But you know what?
但你知道吗？
I love it, and she's excited to see me be so excited.
我喜欢它，她很高兴看到我如此兴奋。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Have you smelled one?
你闻过一种吗？
I've never been to one, but I can imagine.
我从未去过，但我可以想象。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, trust me, you can smell it from here, it's unbelievable.
哦，相信我，你可以从这里闻到它的味道，这令人难以置信。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amazing.
太棒了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
The funk is like you'd never believe in your whole life.
这种恐惧就像你一生都不会相信。
The only other thing is equestrian is maybe the only other habit that could smell as bad as that.
唯一的另一件事是，马术可能是唯一一个可能闻起来如此糟糕的习惯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Horrifying.
太可怕了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But the truth is, part of love is you want that slice of pizza more than I do.
但事实是，爱的一部分是你比我更想要那片披萨。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Part of it is like, "Okay, this is important to you."
其中一部分就像是，“好吧，这对你来说很重要。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, the pleasure in sacrifice.
是的，牺牲的乐趣。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
Well, good.
嗯，很好。
Because listen, if it's important to me and it's important to you, am I doing it for you or am I doing it for me?
因为听着，如果这对我很重要并且对你也很重要，那么我是为你做还是为我自己做？
Or both of us?
还是我们两个？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
What's beautiful is when you're not sacrificing to give.
美丽的是当你不牺牲奉献的时候。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
When there's this feeling of like, if this is important to you, it just became important to me.
当有这种喜欢的感觉时，如果这对你来说很重要，那么它对我来说也变得很重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
But that's at the core of any healthy relationship.
但这是任何健康关系的核心。
If you say to me as my friend, "Jim, this upsets me," okay, or, "I'm scared of this." If I go, "Well, I'm not scared of that," like, thanks, that didn't do anything for me.
如果你作为我的朋友对我说：“吉姆，这让我很不高兴”，好吧，或者，“我害怕这个。”如果我说，“好吧，我不怕这个”，就像，谢谢，这对我没有任何作用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it sort of ceases to be a friendship at that point.
是的，到那时它就不再是友谊了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Right.
对。
When you say to someone like, "Hey, I get that, man.
当你对某人说：“嘿，我明白了，伙计。
You know what?
你知道吗？
Honestly, I understand that.
老实说，我理解这一点。
I'm not afraid of that, and here's how I think about it, which is why I'm not afraid of it, and I hope that maybe helps." Or just hearing the person and going like, "Yeah, I get that, man.
我并不害怕，这就是我的想法，这就是我不害怕的原因，我希望这可能有所帮助。”或者只是听到这个人说，“是的，我明白了，伙计。
Hey, that's fair.
嘿，这很公平。
People are afraid of things.
人们害怕事物。
Hey, I got some stuff I'm afraid of that you're probably not afraid of.
嘿，我有一些我害怕但你可能不会害怕的东西。
That's okay." So why is it I don't think there's something passive about a man saying, "Yeah, marriage was not that important to me, but it was important to her."
没关系。”那么为什么我不认为一个男人说“是的，婚姻对我来说没那么重要，但对她来说很重要”有什么被动的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
"And what's important to her becomes important to me."
“对她重要的事情对我来说也很重要。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
"Because she's important to me."
“因为她对我很重要。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
That's beautiful.
那很漂亮。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I didn't want to imply it was passive.
是的，我不想暗示这是被动的。
I want to be very clear.
我想说得很清楚。
I think that some people might be surprised to learn that many men, because I agree with you, by the way-
我想有些人可能会惊讶地发现有这么多男人，因为我同意你的观点，顺便说一句——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
will agree to do things not out of the sheer joy and delight of the thing, but the deeper delight of making the person that they care about happy.
同意做某事并不是出于纯粹的快乐和喜悦，而是出于让他们关心的人快乐的更深层次的喜悦。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I feel like that's love.
我感觉这就是爱。
That's a big piece of love.
这是一份很大的爱。
And so I think marriage can be one of those things where just look, whether you wanted it or the other person wanted it, there's something wonderful about you're excited about this.
所以我认为婚姻可以是这样的事情之一，只要看看，无论你想要它还是另一个人想要它，你都会对此感到兴奋，这是一件美妙的事情。
Okay, let's do it.
好吧，我们开始吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But get a prenup.
但要签订婚前协议。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Of course, get a prenup.
当然要签婚前协议。
Why would you not get a prenup?
你为什么不签婚前协议？
Listen, man, I love you, and I trust you're a good driver.
听着，伙计，我爱你，我相信你是个好司机。
We get in the car, I'm putting on a seatbelt.
我们上了车，我系上安全带。
Putting on a seatbelt.
系好安全带。
Why wouldn't I?
我为什么不呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because there are other drivers out there.
因为还有其他司机。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
There's other drivers on the road, you're damn right.
路上还有其他司机，你说得对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
There's other drivers on the road.
路上还有其他司机。
And by the way, again, This is a situation where there are rules in place, whether you accept it or not.
顺便说一句，在这种情况下，无论你接受与否，都是有规则的。
That's the thing about the truth, right?
这就是事实的真相，对吗？
My beliefs don't require you to believe them.
我的信仰并不要求你相信它们。
You don't have to believe the truth.
你不必相信事实。
If it's the truth, it's the truth.
如果这是事实，那就是事实。
There is a rule set governing every single marriage.
每一段婚姻都有一套规则。
It was written by the state legislature, period.
它是由州立法机关撰写的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to discuss relationships that start earlier in life-
我想讨论早年开始的关系-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
versus later in life.
与以后的生活相比。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When I was an undergraduate, I took a course, several courses, actually, from a professor who was just phenomenal.
当我还是一名本科生时，我实际上从一位非常出色的教授那里选修了一门课程，几门课程。
Learned neuroanatomy from him, developmental neurobiology.
向他学习了神经解剖学、发育神经生物学。
Gave me the only B+ after my freshman year.
大一后给了我唯一的 B+。
That's not to boast about my other grades, but that's the course that I learned the most from.
这并不是为了夸耀我的其他成绩，而是那门课是我学到最多的课程。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I still remember the questions I got wrong.
我还记得我做错的问题。
I still remember him explaining exactly why I got it wrong, and it was the best learning, right?
我还记得他准确地解释了我为什么会做错，这是最好的学习，对吧？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It was amazing.
太棒了。
Years later, I went back to visit him, just for social reasons, and he had kids now.
几年后，我出于社交原因回去看望他，他现在已经有了孩子。
He was married, and he had a new baby.
他结婚了，并且有了一个新孩子。
And he said to me something.
他对我说了一些话。
I don't know why he felt compelled to tell me stuff about his personal life and giving me advice, but he did.
我不知道为什么他觉得有必要告诉我有关他个人生活的事情并给我建议，但他做到了。
Because he was known for being a pretty rigid guy.
因为他是出了名的严格的人。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Very particular, which is part of what made him such an excellent neuroanatomist.
非常特别，这也是他成为如此优秀的神经解剖学家的部分原因。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he said to me, "I don't know what your personal life is like, but you should get married as young as possible, within reason." And I said, "Oh, yeah?
他对我说：“我不知道你的个人生活怎么样，但你应该在合理的范围内尽可能年轻地结婚。”我说：“哦，是吗？
Why?" And he said, "Because there's this thing that happens when you reach a certain age, that you need to have the toothpaste on the right-hand side of the sink.
为什么？”他说，“因为当你到了一定的年龄时，就会发生这样的事情，你需要把牙膏放在水槽的右边。
And when the toothpaste isn't on the right-hand side of the sink, then it irritates you.
当牙膏不在水槽的右侧时，它会激怒你。
But if you get married and merge lives with somebody early-
但如果你早点结婚并与某人融合生活-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, early enough
是啊，够早了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you develop a flexibility, and you go through a lot of developmental milestones with them."
你会培养灵活性，并与他们一起经历许多发展里程碑。”
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I found it both amusing and-
我发现这既有趣又——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and interesting that he would share that.
有趣的是他会分享这一点。
I know examples of people who merged lives early and are still together.
我知道有人很早就融合了生活并且仍然在一起的例子。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I know some that merged lives early and diverged later.
我知道有些人很早就融合了生活，后来又分开了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Got divorced.
离婚了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I know people, they get married and have kids later in life.
我认识一些人，他们后来结婚生子。
I'm almost 50 in September, so this question isn't about me, but certainly pertains to me in some sense.
九月份我就快50岁了，所以这个问题不是关于我的，但在某种意义上肯定与我有关。
In your observation of successful versus unsuccessful-
在你对成功与失败的观察中——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
marriages, is there a tendency for people who marry younger-
婚姻方面，是否有一种倾向，即结婚年龄较小的人——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to, despite the fact that they, quote-unquote, "might not know themselves as well," et cetera, for those marriages to be more successful because they go through a lot of these life milestones-
尽管事实上他们“可能不太了解自己”等等，但为了让这些婚姻更加成功，因为他们经历了很多这样的人生里程碑——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
together?
一起？
Setting aside here whether the toothpaste is on the right-
这里抛开牙膏是否在右边——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
hand side or the left-hand side of the sink.
水槽的手边或左侧。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
So I've given this a lot of thought because the nature of my constitution is to look at patterns and look for patterns.
所以我对此进行了很多思考，因为我的宪法本质是观察模式并寻找模式。
We're similar in that regard.
我们在这方面很相似。
And so I'm always looking at that.
所以我一直在关注这一点。
For 25 years, I've been looking at same religion, different religion.
25 年来，我一直在研究同一个宗教和不同的宗教。
Cohabitated before marriage, didn't cohabitate before marriage.
婚前同居，婚前没有同居。
Age gap, no age gap.
年龄差距，没有年龄差距。
Female age gap, she's older, he's younger, versus the other way.
女性年龄差距，她年长，他年轻，反之亦然。
I try to find patterns, the patterns that can't be tracked by the government in a certificate of dissolution of marriage.
我试图寻找一些模式，那些政府在解除婚姻证明中无法追踪的模式。
The patterns that can only be tracked by someone who's observing this, right?
这些模式只能由正在观察的人来跟踪，对吧？
And I've really tried to look at that from every angle, including the angle that you just said, which is people that connect in the romantic setting or enter a monogamous relationship, or make a romantic connection, even if it doesn't stay monogamous throughout that whole journey.
我真的尝试从各个角度来看待这一点，包括你刚才所说的角度，即人们在浪漫的环境中建立联系或进入一夫一妻制的关系，或建立浪漫的联系，即使在整个旅程中它并没有保持一夫一妻制。
So they met in high school, dated in high school, and then went off to college, dated other people, and then they reconnect to each other after they've played in the other fields, and then they go, "Okay, now we're going to be together." I've looked at all of that.
所以他们在高中认识，在高中约会，然后去上大学，和其他人约会，然后在其他领域打球后重新建立联系，然后他们说：“好吧，现在我们要在一起了。”我已经看过所有这些。
And what I will tell you is, in my experience, in my observation, what he said is certainly true.
我要告诉你的是，根据我的经验、我的观察，他说的肯定是真的。
But it also ignores the negative, which is also true.
但它也忽略了消极的一面，这也是事实。
So yes, there is a scenario where people meet at a relatively young age, teens, 20s, whatever it might be.
所以，是的，存在一种情况，人们在相对年轻的年龄相遇，十几岁，二十几岁，无论是什么。
They marry, or they become monogamous with each other, and then they eventually marry or stay in a romantic relationship together, and they grow in that tree, that the roots become intertwined, and they build a history together that is just irreplaceable.
他们结婚，或者彼此成为一夫一妻制，然后他们最终结婚或一起保持浪漫关系，他们在那棵树上成长，根部交织在一起，他们一起创造了一段不可替代的历史。
Because you were there when my mom was still alive.
因为当我妈妈还活着的时候你就在那里。
You were there when I got into law school.
当我进入法学院时你就在那里。
Not just when I passed the bar, or not just when I built the...
不仅仅是当我通过了酒吧，或者不仅仅是当我建造了......
You were here for this whole trajectory, and there's this shared history.
你们在这里经历了整个轨迹，并且有这段共同的历史。
You have old friends, I have old friends.
你有老朋友，我也有老朋友。
There's something about someone who was with you when there was just no...
当你无事可做时，有一个人陪在你身边，有一些东西......
I have some friends that it's like, "Dude, there was no reason to be friends with me other than I had nothing to offer you.
我有一些朋友会说：“伙计，除了我没有什么可以提供给你之外，没有理由和我做朋友。
I had no money.
我没有钱。
I had no status.
我没有地位。
I was a C student." And something about you still was like, "Nah, that's my buddy." And I love that.
我是一名 C 级学生。”而你身上的某些东西仍然是这样的，“不，那是我的朋友。”我喜欢这样。
So there is a tremendous beauty in that when it works.
因此，当它发挥作用时，会产生巨大的美感。
There is also that people who have known each other since the beginning, as they grow and age and mature, and they reach the stage in life where they start to, as we can call it, a midlife crisis.
还有一些人从一开始就认识，随着年龄的增长和成熟，他们到达了开始进入中年危机的人生阶段。
Which, by the way, is not reserved for men.
顺便说一句，这并不是为男性保留的。
Men and women both have a form of that.
男人和女人都有这样的形式。
That they start to say, "Hey, have I really felt everything there is to feel?
他们开始说：“嘿，我真的感受到了一切吗？
I've only slept with this person for the last 15 years.
过去 15 年里我只和这个人睡过一次。
There's so many other things out there.
那里还有很多其他的东西。
There's so many other experiences out there, and I haven't had them." And by the way, there's also mistaking correlation for causation in the sense of saying, "I'm dissatisfied with my life, and you've been here for the whole thing, so it must be you." That I'm unhappy with, as opposed to the choices I've made and where they've led me, or the person who I've become rather than who you-- But it's much easier to point to the other person and say, "Oh, well, you're the reason why I'm so unhappy.
还有很多其他的经历，而我却没有经历过。”顺便说一句，也有人将相关性误认为是因果关系，意思是“我对自己的生活不满意，而你一直在这里，所以一定是你。”我不满意的是，而不是我所做的选择以及它们将我引向何处，或者是我成为了什么样的人，而不是你——但是指向对方说：“哦，好吧，你就是我不开心的原因。
I gave you my skinny years.
我把我瘦弱的岁月都给了你。
It's over now." And so I think it ignores that.
现在已经结束了。”所以我认为它忽略了这一点。
I have not found, and believe me, I'd be the first to say it.
我还没有找到，相信我，我会是第一个说出来的。
If I could find a pattern where I would say, okay, live together or don't live together, or these are ways to prevent divorce is like this is what you should be looking for in a partner, same religious structure, same whatever, you were both raised in households with alcoholics, or neither of you is raised, whatever.
如果我能找到一种模式，我会说，好吧，住在一起或不住在一起，或者这些是防止离婚的方法，就像你应该在伴侣中寻找的那样，相同的宗教结构，相同的东西，你们都在酗酒的家庭中长大，或者你们都没有长大，等等。
I don't see it.
我没看到。
I think everything that's virtue can be vice.
我认为一切美德都可能是恶习。
I think that there's lots of ways that being together from an early age can add depth and beauty to your relationship, and there are ways that it can cause people to not value each other the same way or view each other the same way.
我认为从小就在一起可以在很多方面为你们的关系增添深度和美丽，但也有很多方面会导致人们不以同样的方式珍视彼此或以同样的方式看待彼此。
I think familiarity can breed contempt.
我认为熟悉会滋生蔑视。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
毫米。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I think that, no man is a hero to his butler.
我认为，没有人是他的管家的英雄。
I think that when people have been together through a lot of those things, sometimes there is a familiarity that comes.
我认为，当人们在一起经历了很多这样的事情时，有时会产生一种熟悉感。
Whereas, again, I think the opposite is true also, which is having had someone who's in your corner for an extended period of time solidifies and deepens that relationship.
然而，我认为反之亦然，那就是有一个人长期站在你的一边，巩固并加深了这种关系。
There is no simple answer to that.
对此没有简单的答案。
I think there are a lot of things people can do in the relationship to heighten the bonds created by a long-shared history and keep everyone's eye on that ball than to have them distracted by novelty.
我认为人们可以在这段关系中做很多事情来加强由长期共同历史所建立的联系，并让每个人都关注这个球，而不是让他们因新奇事物而分心。
I also think realism becomes really important, looking at it and saying if you've been with the same partner for 15, 20 years, that the fact your eye might wander to a shiny object, not being afraid to admit that and figure out ways to like, hey, I feel this.
我还认为现实主义变得非常重要，看着它并说如果你和同一个伴侣在一起15年、20年，你的眼睛可能会徘徊在一个闪亮的物体上，不要害怕承认这一点，并找出喜欢的方法，嘿，我感觉到了这一点。
No, that's a human way to feel.
不，这是人类的感受方式。
That's okay.
没关系。
How do we deal with that?
我们该如何处理呢？
What do we do with that?
我们用它做什么？
Is it an ethical non-monogamy, which is what a lot of younger, I don't want to say younger, but a modern generation is certainly there are people coming up with different permutations of relationships, where there's ethical non-monogamy, where there's a sense of, okay, we're going to have certain open things in our relationship.
这是一种道德上的非一夫一妻制吗？这就是很多年轻人的情况，我不想说更年轻，但现代一代肯定有人想出不同的关系排列，哪里有道德上的非一夫一妻制，哪里有一种感觉，好吧，我们将在我们的关系中拥有某些开放的东西。
A lot of my gay male friends have been doing that for years.
我的很多男同性恋朋友多年来一直这样做。
Because, again, a culture that has been ostracized and told that what you're doing is an aberration, which is what it was when I was growing up.
因为，再一次，一种被排斥的文化，告诉你你所做的事情是一种反常行为，这就是我成长过程中的情况。
The gay community had to hide to some degree because you could be literally killed for expressing your sexual orientation.
同性恋群体必须在某种程度上隐藏起来，因为你可能会因为表达自己的性取向而被杀害。
So what did that do?
那它做了什么？
Well, there's a freedom that comes with that to some degree.
嗯，在某种程度上，这带来了一种自由。
If you're on the outskirts of society, you're like, "All right, well, we just make up our own rules, I guess."
如果你处于社会的边缘，你会说，“好吧，我想我们只是制定自己的规则。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're like relationship outlaws.
他们就像关系不法之徒。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, they really are.
是的，他们确实是。
They're like, "Listen, we're already told we're awful, terrible people for being who we are, so we might as well come up with our own ways of doing stuff." So I knew lots of gay men from the '80s on who were like, "Yeah, we have certain rules in the relationship.
他们会说，“听着，我们已经被告知我们是非常非常糟糕的人，所以我们不妨想出自己的做事方式。”所以我认识很多 80 年代的男同性恋者，他们会说：“是的，我们在恋爱关系中有一定的规则。
We can hook up, but the other person has to be transparent about it, or there's certain boundaries you can't cross in terms of how sexually you interact with this person, or it's something that we'll only do together in the form of a threesome." Well, again, it's a permutation of relationship that is between those two people.
我们可以勾搭，但对方必须对此保持透明，或者在与这个人的性互动方面存在某些不能跨越的界限，或者我们只能以三人行的形式一起做。”好吧，这又是这两个人之间关系的一种排列。
It's up to them.
这取决于他们。
That's the conversation the two of them can have.
这就是他们两个人可以进行的对话。
So I think there are things any couple can do to feed what's good in the relationship and dampen the negative impact of the things that are challenging in a relationship.
因此，我认为任何夫妻都可以做一些事情来满足关系中的好处，并减少关系中具有挑战性的事情的负面影响。
I don't think there's anything.
我不认为有什么。
But again, the solution to that problem is not just pretend we don't have a problem, just shut your mouth, because if you say it out loud, it's going to make it real.
但同样，解决这个问题的方法不仅仅是假装我们没有问题，只是闭上你的嘴，因为如果你大声说出来，它就会变成现实。
It's real.
这是真的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Living in the delusion.
活在妄想之中。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Living in the illusion should really be called living in the delusion.
活在幻境里，真的应该叫活在幻境里。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Delusion, yeah.
错觉，是的。
Because I think these are precious illusions that people have.
因为我认为这些都是人们所拥有的宝贵的幻想。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
毫米。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And they cling to them.
他们紧紧抓住它们。
And I understand why.
我明白为什么。
It's nice to pretend everything's fine.
假装一切都很好真是太好了。
But it's not honest.
但这并不诚实。
And I think there's tremendous value in saying these things to your partner, sharing them, hearing them.
我认为向你的伴侣说这些话、分享它们、倾听它们是非常有价值的。
Which, by the way, that's a two-way transaction.
顺便说一句，这是双向交易。
If you're going to be in a relationship where you're able to say things that might be hard for your partner to hear but are important for them to hear, you have to be prepared to let them do the same thing.
如果在一段关系中，你可以说一些对你的伴侣来说可能很难听，但对他们来说很重要的话，那么你必须准备好让他们做同样的事情。
So again, that's why it's brave.
再说一次，这就是它勇敢的原因。
Because there's this sense of I would like an uncomfortable truth more than a comfortable lie.
因为我有一种感觉，比起令人舒服的谎言，我更喜欢令人不舒服的真相。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I realize you've examined every permutation of the relationship structure and tried to correlate that with outcome, whether or not the relationship survives happily or not, divorce, et cetera, amicably or not.
我意识到你已经检查了关系结构的每一个排列，并试图将其与结果联系起来，无论关系是否幸福地维持下去，离婚等等，友好与否。
There is one question that I do think might fall into a distinct category.
我确实认为有一个问题可能属于一个不同的类别。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which is the amount of time that people know one another before they decide to get engaged.
这是人们决定订婚之前相互认识的时间。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We hear about, and it's been romanticized somewhat, people met on vacation.
我们听说人们在度假时认识的，而且这已经被浪漫化了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm.
毫米。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you still see these in traditional media.
你仍然可以在传统媒体中看到这些。
I don't look at traditional media too much anymore.
我不再过多关注传统媒体了。
But you'll see, they met in Cabo for four days.
但你会看到，他们在卡波会面了四天。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Went back, realized, and then there they are married.
回去后才意识到，然后他们就结婚了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But they might've been together 50 years.
但他们可能已经在一起50年了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or people were together a very long time.
或者人们在一起很长时间了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To me, nothing's sadder, here's the kind of the Disney thing.
对我来说，没有什么比迪士尼的事情更悲伤的了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When you hear about a couple in their late 70s having been married very long time, grandchildren, they decide to get divorced.
当你听说一对70多岁的夫妇已经结婚很长时间、孙子时，他们决定离婚。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we all reflexively go, "Oh."
我们都会条件反射地说“哦”。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And everyone romanticizes the couple sitting together is all over Instagram, right?
Instagram 上到处都在浪漫地描绘这对坐在一起的情侣，对吧？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The old couple.
老两口。
He still does this for her.
他仍然为她这样做。
She still adores him, and he adores her.
她依然爱着他，他也爱着她。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amount of time that people have known one another-
人们彼此认识的时间——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
prior to engagement.
订婚之前。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Any correlation with outcome?
与结果有相关性吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
So what I'll say is a couple of things.
所以我要说的是几件事。
Again, not a clear correlation.
同样，没有明确的相关性。
We all have anecdotal stories we can tell of people who were together for extended periods of time and then split up, and we all have a couple of stories of people who-- Like, I have a dear friend who got a woman pregnant on the first date.
我们都有一些轶事故事，讲述的是那些长时间在一起然后分手的人，我们都有一些关于人们的故事——比如，我有一个亲爱的朋友，他在第一次约会时就让一个女人怀孕了。
Like, first date.
比如，第一次约会。
They went to a movie and dinner, and then they had sex, and she got pregnant.
他们去看电影并共进晚餐，然后他们发生了性关系，她怀孕了。
And she called him a couple of weeks later and was like, "I'm pregnant." And he was like, "I'm marrying her." And I was like, "I'm sorry, is it 1950?
几周后，她打电话给他，说：“我怀孕了。”他说：“我要娶她。”我当时想，“抱歉，现在是 1950 年吗？
Like, what?
比如，什么？
No. You don't even know her.
不，你根本不认识她。
You went out on one date with her." And he's like, "Nope, I'm going to do the right thing." I'm like, "The right thing is to marry a stranger because you had sex with her and got her pregnant?
你和她出去约会了一次。”他说，“不，我要做正确的事。”我说，“正确的事情就是嫁给一个陌生人，因为你和她发生了性关系，让她怀孕了？
Are you serious?" They've been married 28 years.
你是认真的吗？”他们已经结婚 28 年了。
28 years-
28岁-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Happily?
高兴吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
three kids.
三个孩子。
Happily.
令人高兴的是。
Yeah.
是的。
28 years, three kids.
28岁，三个孩子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's wonderful to hear.
很高兴听到这个消息。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And now, yeah.
现在，是的。
I mean, it's anecdotal.
我的意思是，这是轶事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a warming story.
这是一个温暖的故事。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
It's a warming story.
这是一个温暖的故事。
It's anecdotal.
这是轶事。
It's not proof of anything.
这不能证明任何事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's not a playbook.
这不是一本剧本。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I'm not suggesting people go out and knock somebody up on the first date and then just take the chances.
我并不是建议人们在第一次约会时就出去把某人撞倒，然后就抓住机会。
If you do, get a prenup.
如果你这样做，那就签订婚前协议。
That's all I'm going to say.
我要说的就是这些。
But I think that, again, it depends.
但我认为，这又要看情况。
If I said to you, "I go to the gym for an hour every day.
如果我对你说：“我每天去健身房一个小时。
Is that good for me?" If your answer is anything other than, "I don't know, what do you do there?" Because if what I do is I walk on the treadmill for three minutes, and then I sit in the steam room for a half an hour, and then the rest of the time I'm on my phone, then I might as well have stayed home probably.
这对我有好处吗？”如果你的回答不是“我不知道，你在那里做什么？”因为如果我所做的就是在跑步机上走三分钟，然后在蒸汽浴室里坐半个小时，然后剩下的时间都在玩手机，那么我可能还不如待在家里。
Right?
正确的？
Whereas if I say, "Oh, I never go to the gym," does that mean that's bad?
然而，如果我说，“哦，我从不去健身房”，这是否意味着那很糟糕？
No. Maybe I do body weight workouts at home all the time, and I never set foot in a gym.
不。也许我一直在家做体重锻炼，从来没有去过健身房。
So I don't think it tells the story.
所以我不认为它讲述了这个故事。
So the truth is, is a couple that's together for an extended period of time and has the kind of relationship where they're learning about each other through that process.
所以事实是，一对夫妇在一起很长一段时间，并且他们之间的关系是通过这个过程互相了解的。
Practice doesn't make perfect.
练习并不意味着完美。
Perfect practice makes perfect.
完美的练习才能完美。
Look, time is good.
瞧，时间正好。
Time is good in the sense that you're going to see some good things and some bad things.
时间是美好的，因为你会看到一些好事和一些坏事。
You're going to see this person at their best and at their worst.
你会看到这个人最好的一面和最坏的一面。
You're going to see them through some difficult times.
你将见证他们度过一些困难时期。
They're going to see you in some difficult times.
他们会在困难时期见到你。
And hopefully, if you got to drive a car for six months before you decided if you were going to buy it or not, you'd make a much more informed choice.
希望如果您在决定是否购买汽车之前先驾驶汽车六个月，您会做出更明智的选择。
Why do you think they don't let you drive a car for six months before you buy it?
你认为为什么他们不让你在买车前先驾驶六个月？
There's a reason for that, because you'd see the whole thing.
这是有原因的，因为你会看到整个事情。
Again, I think it's a great idea.
我再次认为这是一个好主意。
But you test drive any car, it's going to be fun.
但你试驾任何汽车，都会很有趣。
Maybe you'll see, like, "Oh, this is boxy.
也许你会看到，“哦，这是四四方方的。
I don't really like it." Look, I've seen, again, successful and unsuccessful brief pairings.
我真的不喜欢它。”看，我再次看到了成功和不成功的短暂配对。
What I will say is when people have had a long, I'll call it courtship period or pre-marital period, that they used to deepen their connection to each other and get to know the good and bad of each other and see each other in good circumstances and bad circumstances, and with and without makeup, and when you're mad and got cut off in traffic, and when you're happy and blissed out, yeah, they're making an informed choice.
我要说的是，当人们经历了很长一段时间，我称之为求爱期或婚前期，他们用来加深彼此之间的联系，了解彼此的好与坏，看到对方的好与坏，化妆与素颜，当你生气的时候，堵车的时候，当你高兴的时候，幸福的时候，是的，他们正在做出明智的选择。
They're buying something that they understand what it's like.
他们购买的是他们了解的东西。
Friends of mine say to me all the time, like, "I'm thinking about getting a dog." Sorry to make this analogy for romance and dogs, but-
我的朋友总是对我说，“我在考虑养一只狗。”很抱歉用浪漫和狗做这个类比，但是-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, it works for me
不，这对我有用
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
somebody says they want to get a dog.
有人说他们想养一只狗。
Well, it's a beautiful day out and I want to go running with the dog in the park.
嗯，这是美好的一天，我想和狗一起去公园跑步。
Who wouldn't?
谁不会呢？
But if you're not ready to have the dog when it ate something and now has diarrhea, and it's raining outside, and you've got to keep taking it outside, and you've got to keep washing your cup, then don't get a dog, man.
但是，如果你还没有准备好养狗，因为它吃了东西，现在腹泻了，而且外面在下雨，你必须继续带它出去，你必须继续洗你的杯子，那么就不要养狗了，伙计。
Because you know what?
因为你知道什么？
It's not playing in the park all day long.
又不是整天在公园里玩。
It's, "I've got to get home." Why?
就是“我得回家了”。为什么？
Because the dog's been alone for four and a half hours, and I don't want the dog to be alone for that long.
因为狗已经一个人呆了四个半小时了，我不想让狗一个人呆那么久。
You've got to change your life for this thing.
你必须为了这件事改变你的生活。
So again, is it worth it?
那么话又说回来，值得吗？
100%.
100%。
200%.
200%。
Are you kidding me?
你在开玩笑吧？
Because one of those sunny days is worth everything.
因为那些阳光灿烂的日子值得一切。
And by the way, if you love it enough, even that stupid part, it's an act of love.
顺便说一句，如果你足够爱它，即使是那个愚蠢的部分，这也是一种爱的行为。
It's like, "I don't care.
就像是，“我不在乎。
I'll clean up after this thing.
这件事之后我会清理的。
I fucking love it."
我真他妈喜欢它。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Dogs, the diarrhea, they feel bad about it.
狗，腹泻，他们对此感觉很糟糕。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They feel bad because they're uncomfortable.
他们感觉很糟糕，因为他们不舒服。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And by the way, you love them so much-
顺便说一句，你非常爱他们-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I know
是的，我知道
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
that all you care about is like, "It's okay, buddy.
你所关心的只是“没关系，伙计。
It's okay.
没关系。
You're all right." My dog throws up and all, I'm like, "It's okay.
你没事吧。”我的狗吐了，我说，“没关系。
Get it out.
把它拿出来。
It's okay.
没关系。
Get it out."
把它拿出来。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Man, I'd give my entire left hand to have-
伙计，我愿意献出我的整个左手来——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
one more week of Picasso with diarrhea.
毕加索又腹泻一周了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Except that would suck for him.
但那对他来说很糟糕。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
One more week.
还有一周。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And you know what?
你知道吗？
I think that a romantic relationship, there is no reason why you can't use the courtship period to sort of test all those permutations.
我认为在一段浪漫的关系中，你没有理由不能利用求爱期来测试所有这些排列。
And I don't think, by the way, that people would just stop buying cars if you had a six-month trial period on the vehicle.
顺便说一句，我认为，如果车辆有六个月的试用期，人们不会停止购买汽车。
I think there's something really okay.
我觉得有件事真的没问题。
Maybe when you made a choice, you would really be picking one that you really like.
也许当你做出选择的时候，你真的会选择你真正喜欢的一个。
So what I will say in response to the question, I made a long answer, is I don't think that a long courtship period, for example, if the courtship period, the length of it is a function of one of them being super reluctant to commit to the other person, that might not be a good indicator.
所以我在回答这个问题时要说的，我做了一个很长的回答，是我不认为求爱期很长，例如，如果求爱期的长度是其中一个人超级不愿意向另一个人做出承诺的函数，那可能不是一个好的指标。
But if the purpose of that courtship period, that extended engagement or that extended dating period, is to really get a feel of each other in a variety of conditions.
但如果求爱期、延长订婚期或延长约会期的目的是为了在各种条件下真正了解对方。
Like, to know a thing, know its limits.
就像，要了解一件事，就知道它的局限性。
When it's pushed beyond its tolerances, its nature emerges.
当它超出了它的容忍度时，它的本性就会显现出来。
So I think there's value in seeing, like, I don't want to just see you with makeup on because you're going to not be wearing makeup for a lot of this relationship.
所以我认为看到这样的事情是有价值的，比如，我不想只看到你化妆，因为在这段关系的大部分时间里你不会化妆。
I want to see what you look like coming out of the shower.
我想看看你洗完澡后的样子。
And by the way, you should want that.
顺便说一句，你应该想要那个。
You should want that too.
你也应该想要那个。
You want me to look at you with no makeup on and go, "You're beautiful.
你想让我看着没有化妆的你，然后说：“你很漂亮。
You look great." Like, do I love it when you put on makeup?
你看起来棒极了。”比如，我喜欢你化妆吗？
Of course.
当然。
But do I love it when you've got the flu and I can take care of you?
但是当你得了流感并且我可以照顾你时，我喜欢这样吗？
Yeah, I love that too.
是的，我也喜欢那个。
That's beautiful in a different way.
这是另一种方式的美丽。
So I think that if you use the time the right way, there's tremendous value in that, much better than just throwing a dart at the board.
所以我认为，如果你以正确的方式利用时间，就会有巨大的价值，比只是向棋盘扔飞镖要好得多。
Like, "I find this person attractive.
就像，“我发现这个人很有吸引力。
They find me attractive.
他们觉得我很有魅力。
Fuck it, let's do this thing." I don't think that that is a good recipe.
去他妈的，让我们做这件事吧。”我不认为这是一个好的食谱。
I've seen a lot of divorces that come from a very brief courtship.
我见过很多因短暂的恋爱而离婚的案例。
But is that the death knell?
但这就是丧钟吗？
No. I think sometimes people just get it right.
不，我认为有时人们只是做对了。
Listen, you and I both know people, take it out of the romantic context, who just get rich quick.
听着，你和我都认识一些人，从浪漫的角度来看，他们只是快速致富。
They make one cool decision, and it just pays off.
他们做出了一个很酷的决定，并且得到了回报。
They make one good bet, and it pays off.
他们下了一个很好的赌注，并且得到了回报。
And I know other people, man, they had to take the stairs.
我认识其他人，他们不得不走楼梯。
They had 15 versions of it, and it went bankrupt three times, and then one of the things hit.
他们有15个版本，它破产了3次，然后其中一件事情发生了。
And that was the one.
就是这样。
And then everybody goes, "I always knew you were going to be successful.
然后每个人都会说：“我一直都知道你会成功。
I always knew it." Really?
我一直都知道。”真的吗？
Because I didn't.
因为我没有。
It was a series of near misses until I hit.
在我击中之前，这是一系列的险些失手。
So I think it's the same thing.
所以我认为这是同一件事。
I think how you use the time is what really matters.
我认为如何利用时间才是真正重要的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Love it.
爱它。
Last question.
最后一个问题。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Oh, boy.
哦，男孩。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people listening to this are in relationships.
有些听这个的人正在恋爱中。
Some are married, some are divorced, some are not in relationships.
有的人结婚了，有的人离婚了，有的人没有恋爱关系。
Is there such a thing as a postnup for the-
有没有诸如婚后协议之类的事情——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
people who have already been married, and what are the pros and cons of opening up that conversation and the contract itself?
已经结婚的人，开放谈话和合同本身有什么利弊？
And for people who are still looking for partner, exploring a relationship or relationships, whatever their life structure happens to be, what do you think are the questions that they might ask themselves and the other person that would give some insight into-
对于那些仍在寻找伴侣、探索一种或多种关系的人来说，无论他们的生活结构是什么，你认为他们可能会问自己和对方哪些问题，这些问题会提供一些见解——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
not necessarily should there be a prenup for the dating period.
约会期间不一定应该有婚前协议。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But a lot of the things you're talking about are in the circles of close intimacy.
但你们谈论的很多事情都属于亲密关系的范畴。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What are your real flaws?
你真正的缺点是什么？
What are you afraid of?
你怕什么？
What are you afraid I'm going to do?
你怕我做什么？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's not the kind of conversation, maybe nowadays people do, that typically people have on their fifth date or sixth date.
也许现在人们在第五次或第六次约会时通常会进行这样的对话。
But at some point, it makes sense to have real conversation with somebody-
但在某些时候，与某人进行真正的对话是有意义的——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to try and make sense of whether or not-
尝试弄清楚是否——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you go forward.
你往前走。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I just threw a lot at you.
所以我只是向你扔了很多东西。
I realize it's a-
我意识到这是一个——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah, those are a couple of different questions, but all-
是的，这是几个不同的问题，但所有 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a little bit of a scattershot, but yeah.
这有点分散，但是是的。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No, but those are all really important questions.
不，但这些都是非常重要的问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But for the committed and non-committed folks out there.
但对于那些承诺和不承诺的人来说。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
I'm paraphrasing Jung when I say that the thing you seek most is in the place you least want to look.
当我说你最寻找的东西就在你最不想看的地方时，我是在解释荣格。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
A friend of mine once said to me that the most important or really the only question that therapy is designed to answer is what is it that you're afraid to feel?
我的一个朋友曾经对我说，治疗旨在回答的最重要或实际上唯一的问题是你害怕感受到什么？
And so I think that there's tremendous value in sharing with a partner and learning about a partner what it is they're afraid to feel, and looking at the things about yourself that you're afraid to share.
因此，我认为与合作伙伴分享并了解合作伙伴他们害怕感受的东西以及审视自己害怕分享的事情具有巨大的价值。
I think in my own experience, and I think in that of most of my clients, I'm not religious anymore.
我认为根据我自己的经验以及我大多数客户的经验，我不再有宗教信仰了。
I was raised religious.
我从小就信奉宗教。
So I don't really believe in the devil.
所以我不太相信有魔鬼。
I don't think that there's this malevolent creature that's out there trying to convince people to be evil.
我不认为有这种恶毒的生物试图说服人们变得邪恶。
But if there was a devil, I think the principal function of the devil would be to convince us that we're so bestial that God couldn't possibly love us.
但如果有魔鬼的话，我认为魔鬼的主要功能就是让我们相信我们是那么兽性，上帝不可能爱我们。
I think the greatest mistakes of my life I always made, and the most selfish, awful decisions I made, I made because I convinced myself that I wasn't good.
我认为我一生中犯下的最大错误，以及我做出的最自私、最糟糕的决定，都是因为我说服自己，我不好。
I convinced myself that what does it matter?
我说服自己这有什么关系？
Nothing means anything.
没有任何意义。
Just do whatever.
就做任何事吧。
Who cares?
谁在乎？
No one's looking.
没有人在寻找。
Just do it.
去做就对了。
Doesn't matter.
没关系。
And when I look at, whether you want to call it the presence of God in me, Buddha nature, call it anything you want to call it, but when I hold to the angels of my better nature, the part of my heart that is good and loving and compassionate, and I let that be my compass, that's when the greatest victories, the greatest joys, the best things happen.
当我观察时，无论你想称它为上帝在我体内的存在，佛性，无论你想怎么称呼它，都可以，但是当我抓住我更好的本性的天使时，我心中善良、慈爱和慈悲的部分，我让它成为我的指南针，那就是最大的胜利、最大的快乐、最好的事情发生的时候。
And I'm not suggesting being ignorant and being like, "Oh, the whole world's full of puppies and sunshine." Listen, I'm a divorce lawyer, man.
我并不是建议你表现得无知，“哦，整个世界都充满了小狗和阳光。”听着，我是一名离婚律师，伙计。
I live in the world of misery.
我生活在苦难的世界里。
But it has not robbed me of the belief in the good and the depth of the power of love, and how badly I want it and how bad we all want it.
但这并没有剥夺我对善的信念和爱的力量的深度，以及我是多么渴望它，我们都多么渴望它。
And so I think the most valuable thing that people can do is when you're not in a relationship or whether you're in a relationship, is when do you feel the most loved, and when do you feel the most loving, right?
所以我认为人们能做的最有价值的事情就是当你没有恋爱关系或者无论你有恋爱关系的时候，你什么时候感觉最被爱，什么时候你感觉最被爱，对吗？
And then when you connect to another person, find out the answer for them, because it's probably different.
然后当你与另一个人联系时，找出他们的答案，因为答案可能不同。
It might be some things that are the same, but there might be some things that are completely different.
可能有些东西是相同的，但也可能有些东西是完全不同的。
There's a good possibility that if you told the creamer story, that she would be like, "Oh my God, I don't even remember that.
如果你讲了奶精的故事，她很可能会说，“天哪，我什至不记得了。
I don't even remember that happening." And yet for you, it was such a...
我什至不记得发生过那件事。”然而对你来说，这真是一个……
So I think there's a lot of those things.
所以我认为这样的事情有很多。
Sometimes when you ask somebody, "What's your favorite memory of me?" The thing they'll tell you, you'll go, "I don't even remember saying that." I've had people say to me, "Oh my God, you said this thing on this podcast." And I'm like, "What was it?" And they say it.
有时候，当你问某人“你对我最美好的回忆是什么？”他们会告诉你的事情，你会说，“我什至不记得说过这样的话。”有人对我说：“天啊，你在这个播客上说了这件事。”我想，“那是什么？”他们就是这么说的。
I'm like, "I said that?" I'm like, "It sounds like I agree with it.
我说：“我说过吗？”我想，“听起来我同意这一点。
I have absolutely no recollection of saying that." Partly, I talk so much it's hard to remember what's important.
我完全不记得说过这句话。”部分原因是我说得太多，很难记住什么是重要的。
But I really think that There's tremendous value in being brave in the conversations we have with ourselves about love.
但我真的认为，勇敢地与自己谈论爱情是有巨大价值的。
I think that lying to yourself-- because here's the thing.
我认为这是对自己撒谎——因为事情就是这样。
If you can be authentically yourself with another person, then you're going to feel their love.
如果你能在另一个人面前做真实的自己，那么你就会感受到他们的爱。
That's what I mean about the devil, is the idea that if I just show my partner the best parts of myself and I don't admit to them or share with them the things I'm afraid of, the shit I need to work on, all that kind of stuff, then I'm never going to feel their love because they don't love me.
这就是我所说的魔鬼，如果我只是向我的伴侣展示自己最好的部分，而不向他们承认或与他们分享我害怕的事情，我需要努力的事情，所有这些事情，那么我永远不会感受到他们的爱，因为他们不爱我。
They love the character I'm playing.
他们喜欢我扮演的角色。
They love the persona that I've developed in this relationship, and I'll never feel their love.
他们喜欢我在这段关系中形成的人格，而我永远感受不到他们的爱。
Whereas if I'm brave enough to share with this person the parts of me that I don't understand, I'm afraid of, I'm unhappy with, I'm ashamed of, and they love me anyway, then I'm going to really feel that love.
然而，如果我有足够的勇气与这个人分享我不理解、害怕、不满意、羞耻的部分，而他们无论如何都爱我，那么我就会真正感受到那种爱。
And that love can be a transformative kind of love.
这种爱可以是一种变革性的爱。
That's a love worth having.
这才是值得拥有的爱情。
So I think anything that deepens your ability to know yourself and deepens your ability to know your partner and let your partner know that you want to know them, the whole thing.
所以我认为任何能够加深你了解自己的能力，加深你了解你的伴侣的能力，并让你的伴侣知道你想了解他们，整个事情。
I want to know what you need to work on.
我想知道你需要做什么工作。
I want to be here to help.
我想在这里提供帮助。
I'm here for you.
我在这里等你。
I'm here.
我在这儿。
It's just like friendship.
这就像友谊一样。
Friendship's easier.
友谊更容易。
Friendship's easier than romantic love.
友谊比浪漫的爱情更容易。
It's super easy to say, "Hey, man, you know I'm cheering for you.
说起来非常容易：“嘿，伙计，你知道我在为你加油。
You know I am.
你知道我是。
I wouldn't be here.
我不会在这里。
I don't have to be here." I don't have to be here.
我不必在这里。”我不必在这儿。
That's part of why I like prenups.
这就是我喜欢婚前协议的部分原因。
I don't want you here because you have to be here.
我不想让你在这里，因为你必须在这里。
I want you here because you want to be here because you're in, man.
我希望你在这里，因为你想在这里，因为你在，伙计。
There was a time where we were in, and we decided to do this thing.
曾经有一段时间，我们正处于这样的时期，我们决定做这件事。
And that, to me, that's the whole thing.
对我来说，这就是全部。
So I think that's the secret.
所以我认为这就是秘密。
In terms of if you're already in a relationship and you go, okay.
就如果你已经处于恋爱关系中并且离开的话，好吧。
Postnups, there's problems with postnups because from a contractual legal standpoint, contracts fail for what's called want of consideration, meaning that in every contract, there has to be an exchange of value.
婚后协议存在问题，因为从合同法律的角度来看，合同因所谓的缺乏对价而失败，这意味着在每份合同中都必须有价值交换。
So to use the car thing again, I'm giving you money, you're giving me a car.
所以要再次使用汽车，我给你钱，你给我一辆车。
We're each exchanging.
我们各自交换。
We're each giving and receiving value.
我们每个人都在给予和接受价值。
The consideration for a prenup is we don't have to get married, but I'm willing to marry you if we amend the rule set in the following way.
婚前协议的考虑是我们不必结婚，但如果我们按照以下方式修改规则，我愿意嫁给你。
So that has a mutuality of consideration.
所以这是一种相互考虑。
There are some courts that have held that a postnup, there is no consideration, and it fails as a contract because staying married is not consideration.
有一些法院认为婚后协议不存在对价，并且它作为合同无效，因为维持婚姻不是对价。
It's assumed that you would stay married legally.
假设你们会合法地保持婚姻关系。
So that's why postnups can fail.
这就是婚后协议可能失败的原因。
Now, that being said, do I think the message that I have about connection and how to interact with your partner and the things I wrote in my book, "How to Stay in Love: Practical Wisdom from an Unlikely Source," the idea was not to just talk about people in troubled relationships or to approach people who were not yet in relationships and give them a rule set to start with.
话虽这么说，我是否认为我所传达的关于联系以及如何与伴侣互动的信息以及我在《如何保持爱情：来自不太可能的来源的实用智慧》一书中所写的内容，其想法不仅仅是谈论陷入困境的人或接近尚未建立关系的人并给他们一套开始的规则。
I trained Brazilian jujitsu for many years, and people will often say, because people are 30, 40, 50, and they want to get into Brazilian jujitsu, and there's an old joke.
我训练巴西柔术很多年了，人们经常会说，因为人们在30岁、40岁、50岁的时候，他们想进入巴西柔术，有一个老笑话。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It was one of the Gracies who first said it.
首先说这句话的是格雷西家族的一位成员。
I don't want to offend Hoyler or I think it was Hoyler, but I'm not sure.
我不想冒犯霍勒，或者我认为是霍勒，但我不确定。
It might've been Hickson.
可能是希克森。
Where someone said, "What's the best age to start jujitsu?" And he said, "Five or now." And I think that's the answer.
有人问：“开始柔术的最佳年龄是几岁？”他说：“五个或者现在。”我认为这就是答案。
So all these techniques, all these things we're talking about, what's the best time to implement them?
那么所有这些技术，所有我们正在谈论的事情，实施它们的最佳时机是什么？
The day you meet this person or now.
当你遇到这个人的那天或者现在。
I don't care if you're married 10 years, 20 years, 30 years.
我不在乎你结婚10年、20年、30年。
You're telling me that right now there wouldn't be value in seeing your partner, allowing yourself to be seen by your partner?
你是说现在见你的伴侣没有价值，让你的伴侣看到你自己？
A lot of the practical wisdom, I think, that's so simple of like in my book, there's a chapter where I just talk about it's called Leave a Note, and it basically just says leave your partner a note.
我认为，很多实用的智慧都非常简单，就像我书中的一章，我只是谈论它，称为“留下便条”，它基本上只是说给你的伴侣留个便条。
When you leave for the office in the morning, leave a note.
当你早上去办公室时，留下一张纸条。
Like, "Hey, it was so fun on the couch with you last night watching TV.
就像，“嘿，昨晚和你一起在沙发上看电视真是太有趣了。
I married the prettiest girl in the world.
我娶了世界上最漂亮的女孩。
Can't wait to see you again." What does that take, 30 seconds?
迫不及待地想再次见到你。”这需要什么时间，30 秒？
Thirty seconds, right?
三十秒吧？
Nothing.
没有什么。
Such a minimal investment.
如此小的投资。
Didn't cost you anything.
没有花费你任何费用。
That's why you won't see it on TV advertised, by the way, because it didn't cost anything.
顺便说一句，这就是为什么你不会在电视广告上看到它，因为它不需要任何费用。
You don't have to buy anything.
你不必买任何东西。
You don't need anything to do that thing.
你不需要任何东西来做那件事。
But what does it say to your partner?
但这对你的伴侣说了什么？
I see you.
我看见你。
You're important to me.
你对我很重要。
I took the time in the middle of the things I'm doing to let you know you're important to me.
我在做事情的过程中花时间让你知道你对我很重要。
And who wouldn't want that?
谁不想要这样呢？
Who wouldn't want their partner, even after 20 years of marriage, especially after 20 years of marriage, to say, "God, you're handsome.
谁不希望自己的伴侣，即使在结婚20年后，尤其是在结婚20年后，说：“天啊，你真帅。
Hey, I just, I don't know, something about you." Who wouldn't want to hear that?
嘿，我只是，我不知道，一些关于你的事情。”谁不想听到这个？
Who wouldn't have their day brightened by that a little bit?
谁不想让自己的一天变得明亮一点呢？
And again, maybe at first your partner will go, "Are you all right?
再说一遍，也许一开始你的伴侣会问：“你还好吗？
What are you doing?" I had a buddy who actually did the note thing, and he said, he was like, "Yeah, for the first week, she was like, 'What's going on?
你在做什么？”我有一个朋友实际上做了笔记的事情，他说，他就像，“是的，第一周，她就像，‘发生了什么事？
Are you having an affair?
你有外遇吗？
Are you dying?
你快死了吗？
What's going on?'" And he said, "But after, and I just said, 'No, I just want to make more of a point of being present.'" And he said after three weeks, four weeks, he was like, "Dude, we're having the best chapter.
发生了什么事？’”他说，“但之后，我只是说，‘不，我只是想更强调在场。’”他说，三周、四周后，他说，“伙计，我们正在经历最好的一章。
We're having more sex.
我们有更多的性生活。
We're having more fun." He's like, "And now she's texting me in the middle of the day." By the way, again, not to gender things, but leaving a note or sending a text in the middle of the day that just says, "I was just thinking of you.
我们玩得更开心了。”他说，“现在她在中午给我发短信。”顺便说一句，不是性别问题，而是在中午留下一张纸条或发送一条短信，只是说：“我只是在想你。
I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you." Da, da, da, da, da.
我只是想让你知道我在想你。”达，达，达，达，达。
It's the equivalent of sending a man nudes.
这相当于发送一个男人的裸体。
Because what does it say?
因为它说什么？
It says, "Hey, I know the world's crazy and everything's kind of, but it's you and me." It's you and me, and you're this special person that gets to hear these things from me or see these things of me that other people don't get to see because I'm yours in your mind.
它说：“嘿，我知道世界很疯狂，一切都很疯狂，但只有你和我。”是你和我，你是这个特别的人，可以从我这里听到这些事情，或者看到我的这些其他人看不到的事情，因为在你的心里我是你的。
What is better than that, and what is the downside to trying, to giving it-- Because worst case, you spent 30 seconds of your life and you didn't get a return on your investment.
有什么比这更好，尝试、付出有什么坏处——因为最坏的情况是，你花了生命中的 30 秒，却没有得到投资回报。
Okay.
好的。
You're no worse off than you were.
你的情况并不比以前更糟。
So even though you may not be able to avail yourself of the rule set concept that can happen when you haven't married yet and you have a prenup and you have that discussion, I think you could still have that core conversation.
因此，即使您可能无法利用当您尚未结婚且签订婚前协议并进行讨论时可能发生的规则集概念，我认为您仍然可以进行核心对话。
Again, not about if we split up, how do we divide our assets?
还是那句话，不是说如果我们分手了，我们的资产如何分割？
That's not what this is about.
这不是重点。
It's about what do we owe each other?
这是关于我们彼此欠什么？
What do we bring to this economy, this relationship of the two of us, this exchange of value?
我们为这个经济、我们两个的关系、这种价值交换带来了什么？
I have a friend who's been married probably about 10 years happily, really happily.
我有一个朋友，结婚大概有10年了，很幸福，真的很幸福。
And he was telling me how they call it a walk and talk, that once a week, they just go for a walk, like a hike together.
他告诉我他们如何称之为边走边聊，每周一次，他们只是去散步，就像一起徒步旅行一样。
They live in Colorado.
他们住在科罗拉多州。
And they've made a practice of telling each other two or three things that they did that week that were a big win, two or three things that made them feel loved or whatever it might be.
他们已经养成了一种习惯，告诉对方他们那周所做的两三件事是一次巨大的胜利，两三件事让他们感到被爱或者无论是什么。
And then they try to have at least one or two things that they could've done better or where they might have crossed wires, and they kind of do a praise sandwich.
然后他们尝试至少做一两件事他们可以做得更好或者他们可能交叉的地方，他们会做一个赞美三明治。
So they do the good, and then a few of the bad, and then back to the good again.
所以他们先做好事，然后做一些坏事，然后再做好事。
And I said to him, "Is there a discernible impact?" And he's like, "It's the best thing we do." He's like, "Because it really helps us course correct in real time.
我对他说：“有明显的影响吗？”他说：“这是我们做的最好的事情。”他说，“因为它确实可以帮助我们实时纠正航向。
But the most valuable part is actually not the here's what you got wrong, it's the here's what you did right.
但最有价值的部分实际上不是你做错了什么，而是你做对了什么。
Here's the stuff that made me feel loved." Because that death spiral that people get into in relationships where it's like, "Well, I'm not happy.
这是让我感到被爱的东西。”因为人们在人际关系中陷入的死亡螺旋就像是，“嗯，我不快乐。
Why should they be happy?" And like, "Well, I didn't get to go out with my friends.
他们为什么要高兴？”就像，“好吧，我没有和我的朋友出去。
Why did she get to go out with her friends?" You know?
她为什么要和朋友出去？”你知道？
And, "Well, I had a miserable day, too." Well, it's like, well, why is your miserable day more important than my miserable day?
并且，“好吧，我也度过了痛苦的一天。”好吧，这就好像，好吧，为什么你痛苦的一天比我痛苦的一天更重要？
That death spiral, you can reverse that.
那个死亡螺旋，你可以扭转它。
It can work the other way, which is just keep meeting this with an abundance of love, affection, compassion, positive reinforcement.
它也可以以另一种方式发挥作用，那就是不断地以丰富的爱、感情、同情心和积极的强化来应对这一点。
It can, and again, not always.
它可以，但并不总是如此。
Believe me, I work in the clay of domestic violence, intimate partner abuse.
相信我，我在家庭暴力、亲密伴侣虐待的泥沼中工作。
I've seen it up close and personal.
我亲眼目睹过它。
I know there are toxic, awful people who are just not going to be able to have a functional relationship.
我知道有些有毒、可怕的人无法建立正常的关系。
But find that out sooner rather than later, and then cut your losses and get out.
但尽早发现这一点宜早不宜迟，然后减少损失并退出。
Because I have to tell you something.
因为我必须告诉你一些事情。
You say how you see a couple that's 70 or 80 and they're getting divorced, and it's the saddest thing.
你说你如何看待一对70岁或80岁的夫妇离婚，这是最悲伤的事情。
It is, but it also begs the question, what would've happened if they were ill-suited for each other?
是的，但这也引出了一个问题，如果他们彼此不适合，会发生什么？
How long did they hold on?
他们坚持了多久？
Because I got to tell you, man, I'm not impressed when somebody says, "Oh, we were married for 60 years.
因为我必须告诉你，伙计，当有人说“哦，我们结婚 60 年了”时，我不会印象深刻。
We were miserable for 45 of them, but we did it." Like, oh, great.
我们为其中 45 人感到痛苦，但我们做到了。”就像，哦，太棒了。
Great.
伟大的。
That's like that race they run in Death Valley where it's like, "I ran 150 miles in Aug-" Oh, okay.
这就像他们在死亡谷举行的比赛一样，“我在 8 月份跑了 150 英里——”哦，好吧。
That's great.
那太棒了。
That's insane.
那太疯狂了。
But okay, congratulations.
不过好吧，恭喜你。
You did something that sounds horribly painful and in no way positive.
你做了一些听起来非常痛苦而且毫无积极意义的事情。
But if you feel good about it, cool.
但如果你感觉良好，那就太好了。
That's not, to me, a successful marriage.
对我来说，这不是一个成功的婚姻。
A successful marriage, to me, is we made each other's lives better.
对我来说，成功的婚姻就是我们让彼此的生活变得更好。
We made our own lives and each other's lives better for our coupling, for the fact that we were together.
因为我们的结合，因为我们在一起，我们让自己的生活和彼此的生活变得更好。
Maybe we created life and cultivated life together by birth or adoption, or maybe we just radiated joy to the people around us.
也许我们通过出生或收养共同创造了生命并培育了生命，或者也许我们只是向周围的人散发着欢乐。
Or maybe we had pets and we gave them a wonderful existence together, or maybe some combination of all those wonderful things.
或者也许我们养了宠物，我们给了它们一个美好的生活，或者也许是所有这些美好事物的组合。
But do I think that the solution is longevity and say...
但我认为解决方案是长寿吗？
No, because I don't think that the duration of something is the success or failure of it.
不，因为我不认为某件事的持续时间就是它的成功或失败。
Listen, if you make a six-hour shitty movie, I'm not going to be like, "Well, but it was six full hours.
听着，如果你拍一部六个小时的烂电影，我不会说，“好吧，但那是整整六个小时。
That is pretty good." No. Whereas if you make a six-hour movie that holds my attention the entire six hours, that's a damn good movie.
那很好。”不。然而，如果你制作一部六个小时的电影，让我整个六个小时都集中注意力，那就是一部非常好的电影。
That's a movie worth making.
这是一部值得拍的电影。
I'll watch "Casino" or "Goodfellas" every time it's on, and it's a full three hours almost.
《赌场》或者《好家伙》我每次一放就会看，差不多就看整整三个小时。
And I don't care because it's that good.
我不在乎，因为它太好了。
So I think that longevity, endings and how relationships end, the fact that something ends does not mean that it wasn't valuable at all.
所以我认为长寿、结局以及关系如何结束，某些事情结束的事实并不意味着它根本没有价值。
I think that's a really crazy thing.
我认为这真是一件疯狂的事情。
Every movie I've ever enjoyed ended, and if somebody said to me three-quarters of the way through it, "This is going to end," I wouldn't be like, "Well, what's the point?" No, I want to watch the whole thing.
我喜欢的每一部电影都会结束，如果有人在看完四分之三的时候对我说，“这就要结束了，”我不会说，“好吧，有什么意义呢？”不，我想看整个事情。
And knowing that it's going to end is part of what makes it beautiful.
知道一切都会结束是它变得美丽的一部分。
So I think that protections are really important.
所以我认为保护措施非常重要。
Prenups are really important.
婚前协议真的很重要。
It's ideal as early in a relationship as possible to have some of these conversations about the painful things that I have to help people wrestle with every single day, but I think the value received from that conversation is immeasurable.
在建立关系时，最好尽早就我每天必须帮助人们应对的痛苦事情进行一些对话，但我认为从这次对话中获得的价值是不可估量的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Jim, what I love about you so much is that you're willing to, and maybe you just reflexively look at things through every possible lens.
吉姆，我非常喜欢你的是你愿意这样做，也许你只是本能地通过各种可能的视角来看待事物。
So if it's something dark like divorce, you look at it through the lens of that, but also, does it always have to be dark?
所以，如果是像离婚这样黑暗的事情，你会从这个角度来看待它，但是，它总是必须是黑暗的吗？
You look at it through the lens of a lawyer's eyes, right?
你是通过律师的视角来看待这个问题的，对吗？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Well, I think that's part of lawyering is you have to argue both sides of everything.
嗯，我认为律师工作的一部分就是你必须对所有事情进行双方的争论。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
But I would also say that if ever people had the stereotype in mind that all lawyers are heartless and cutthroat, and it's all just about money, you clearly shatter that because so much of what we talked about today wasn't about divorce, it was about contracts.
但我还要说，如果人们心中有这样的刻板印象，即所有律师都是无情和残酷的，而且一切都只是为了金钱，那么你显然会打破这种印象，因为我们今天谈论的大部分内容不是关于离婚，而是关于合同。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it wasn't just about contracts.
这不仅仅是合同的问题。
Really, what I kept hearing over and over is that By asking what at first are practical questions, you can really get to the emotional layers underneath those that really speak to what people need most-
真的，我一遍又一遍地听到的是，通过首先提出一些实际问题，你可以真正触及那些真正触及人们最需要的东西之下的情感层面——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in order to make things work-
为了让事情顺利进行-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
even if the relationship doesn't last forever.
即使这种关系不会永远持续下去。
And I think that's such an important lens on the kind of overwhelming thing that we call relationships and marriage and prenups and divorces.
我认为这是一个非常重要的镜头，可以帮助我们了解我们所说的人际关系、婚姻、婚前协议和离婚等令人难以承受的事情。
And I think it's enough to make anyone terrified.
我认为这足以让任何人感到恐惧。
It's also enough, as you said, to make some people bitter.
正如你所说，这也足以让一些人感到痛苦。
And I think-
我认为——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
we didn't talk about it too much because it's such a potent word, didn't have to, but this notion of bitterness is really the thing to avoid most, right?
我们没有过多谈论它，因为它是一个如此有力的词，没有必要，但这种苦涩的概念确实是最应该避免的，对吧？
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because it contaminates the thing that you embody so much, which is you just have such a huge forward center of mass-
因为它污染了你所体现的东西，那就是你有一个巨大的向前质心-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
full tilt, arms around all of it, love of-
全心投入，拥抱一切，爱-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
life and people and dogs and-
生活、人和狗、还有——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Thanks.
谢谢。
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and it just comes through over and over in everything you do-
它会一遍又一遍地出现在你所做的每一件事中——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Thanks, man
谢谢，伙计
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and in every way that you describe it.
以及你描述的每一种方式。
So I see you as, yes, a lawyer.
所以我认为你是一名律师。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not just a divorce lawyer, but a lawyer.
不仅仅是离婚律师，还是律师。
You're certainly a psychologist.
你当然是一位心理学家。
You're definitely on the adventure of life.
你肯定正在经历人生的冒险。
There's no-
没有-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
For sure
当然
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
question about that.
对此的疑问。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
For sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're an anthropologist, which reflects some of your-
你是一位人类学家，这反映了你的一些——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Little bit
一点点
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
prior training.
事先培训。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you're just a really amazing human being in the way-
从某种程度上来说，你真是一个了不起的人——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Thanks, man
谢谢，伙计
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that you're willing to just launch yourself into all of it and consider all of this.
你愿意全身心投入并考虑所有这些。
And like you said, you see some really unfortunate things, but it's clear that you also see a lot of really wonderful and beautiful things.
就像你说的，你看到了一些非常不幸的事情，但很明显你也看到了很多非常美妙和美丽的事情。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I think some of the awful things are really beautiful.
我认为一些可怕的事情实际上是美丽的。
There's a line from Hemingway from "A Farewell to Arms" where he says, "The world breaks everyone, and some are stronger in the broken places."
海明威在《永别了，武器》中有一句台词，他说：“这个世界让每个人都心碎，而有些人在破碎的地方却变得更坚强。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
And I think divorce and heartbreak, heartbreak is like that.
我认为离婚和心碎，心碎就是这样。
Heartbreak breaks everyone, and sometimes we're stronger in the broken places.
心碎会让每个人心碎，有时我们在破碎的地方会变得更坚强。
I think I've learned so much through love, and I've learned so much through loss, and I don't want my love of love to make me forget that loss exists, and I don't want the pain of loss to make me forget that love exists.
我想我通过爱学到了很多，通过失去也学会了很多，我不想让我对爱的热爱让我忘记失去的存在，我不想让失去的痛苦让我忘记爱的存在。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I and everyone listening really appreciate you taking the time to come here.
好吧，我和每个听众都非常感谢您抽出时间来到这里。
Look, you make a living doing something else.
听着，你靠做别的事谋生。
You make a very-
你做了一个非常-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
I got a full-time day job
我找到了一份全职工作
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you don't need to do this-
你不需要这样做-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I love this, man
我喜欢这个，伙计
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
traveling cross-country.
跨国旅行。
Well, I so appreciate it.
嗯，我很感激。
I know people appreciate it.
我知道人们很欣赏它。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I mean, I love talking to you in general, but we've never done it on mic, which is really funny.
我的意思是，我喜欢和你说话，但我们从来没有用麦克风做过，这真的很有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
We've had some good conversations, and-
我们进行了一些愉快的交谈，而且-
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you've been a wonderful and trusted friend to me.
你对我来说是一位很棒且值得信赖的朋友。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Thanks, man.
谢谢，伙计。
You too.
你也是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I also trust that if I'm going to make a dumb decision or if I've made a dumb decision, that you'll let me know.
我也相信，如果我要做出一个愚蠢的决定，或者我已经做出了一个愚蠢的决定，您会让我知道。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I'm there.
我在那儿。
I promise.
我保证。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All right.
好吧。
Write back at you.
给你回信。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I haven't.
我没有。
I will in the future.
我将来会的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Write back at you.
给你回信。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, you have for me as well.
嗯，你也有我的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't have your legal wisdom, but write back at you.
我没有你的法律知识，但还是给你回信。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I haven't yet.
嗯，我还没有。
But-
但是——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
You have plenty of wisdom
你有足够的智慧
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you're a trusted and amazing friend, and you just have so much wisdom to share.
你是一位值得信赖、令人惊叹的朋友，你有很多智慧可以分享。
My dad has this saying that some people when they speak, they just might as well have exhaled.
我爸爸有句话说，有些人说话的时候，还不如呼气呢。
He's Argentine.
他是阿根廷人。
He's a little cynical.
他有点愤世嫉俗。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But he also says, "But some people when they speak, just wisdom falls out of them." And that's how I feel every time I'm in your presence.
但他也说，“但有些人，当他们说话时，智慧就会从他们身上流出来。”这就是每次我在你面前时的感受。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
That's so funny.
太有趣了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or I hear you on a podcast or even a short clip.
或者我在播客甚至短片中听到你的声音。
I prepared a lot for today's episode by just watching as much content of yours as I could possibly consume, and I was like, "Wow, the density of value per unit time for your speech is unbelievably high." So-
我为今天的节目做了很多准备，只是尽可能多地观看了您的内容，我当时想，“哇，您的演讲每单位时间的价值密度高得令人难以置信。”所以——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
That was the most Huberman description of me.
这是对我最具休伯曼风格的描述。
I love it.
我喜欢它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So-
所以——
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
The density of value within the...
价值密度...
I love the scientific lens through which-
我喜欢科学的视角——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well
嗯
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
...
...
you even look at the unscientific, although I guess everything is scientific in some ways.
你甚至会看不科学的东西，尽管我猜一切在某些方面都是科学的。
So, but no, man, I'm really glad we had a chance to do this.
所以，但不，伙计，我真的很高兴我们有机会做到这一点。
And I love all of our conversations, and I thought to myself, "It's going to be interesting and odd to have one," but I sort of immediately forgot that the microphone's here or the camera's here, and that's really lovely.
我喜欢我们所有的谈话，我心想，“如果有这样的谈话会很有趣，也很奇怪，”但我立刻就忘记了麦克风在这里或相机在这里，这真的很可爱。
That's the best thing, is when, if you said to me how long have we been talking, I would imagine it's like an hour, but I know it's way longer than that.
这是最好的事情，如果你对我说我们聊了多长时间，我会想象大约一个小时，但我知道它比这个长得多。
I have no idea, though.
不过我不知道。
I've completely...
我已经完全...
And that's that flow state that happens when we're wrestling with these ideas that are the most human ideas.
这就是当我们与这些最人性化的想法进行斗争时发生的心流状态。
And I love, I want to pay you a compliment.
我爱你，我想赞美你。
Before we were friends, I listened to your program in the earlier days of it, and I love how the journey of becoming fully human and exploring the depth of our full humanity has become.
在我们成为朋友之前，我在早期听过你的节目，我喜欢成为完全人类和探索我们完整人性深度的旅程。
Because something that was always very science-based tools, and it's very easy to sort of just keep yourself in that box.
因为有些东西总是非常基于科学的工具，而且很容易让自己陷入困境。
You've really stepped out of your comfort zone, especially in recent years, and brought in these things that really are the totality of the human experience, all these relationship things.
你确实走出了自己的舒适区，尤其是近年来，并引入了这些真正是人类经验的整体的东西，所有这些关系的东西。
The pet thing I just listened to, I loved.
我刚刚听过的宠物歌曲，我很喜欢。
And I think that we're coming to a time where we realize that we're, what's the old saying?
我认为，我们正面临这样一个时代：我们意识到，那句老话是什么？
That we're not thinking machines that sometimes feel.
我们并不是有时会有感觉的思考机器。
We're feeling machines that sometimes think.
我们感觉机器有时会思考。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
I think that you're really starting to get deeply into the totality of our humanity, the physical state, the emotional, spiritual, all of those things.
我认为你真的开始深入了解我们人性的整体，身体状态，情感，精神，所有这些东西。
And I think that's what we need.
我认为这就是我们所需要的。
That if there is a cure to the ailment of our time, the partisan, the hyper-partisan environment, the misery and anxiety that so many people are feeling, and the yearning, the spiritual hunger that has people consuming opinions and podcasts deeply.
如果有办法治愈我们这个时代的顽疾：党派之争、过度党派的环境、许多人所感受到的痛苦和焦虑，以及人们深深吸收观点和播客的渴望和精神饥饿。
I mean, who would've ever thought podcasts would be what it is, right?
我的意思是，谁会想到播客会变成现在这个样子，对吧？
Long-form audio conversations.
长篇音频对话。
We would go back to the radio?
我们会回到广播吗？
When we can world-build with AI now and make anything visual for us, that we would go back to finding wisdom in this?
当我们现在可以用人工智能构建世界并使任何东西为我们视觉化时，我们是否会回去寻找智慧？
And the fact that hunger is being fed by people like you who are saying, "Hey, science won't save us.
事实上，像你这样的人正在加剧饥饿，他们说：“嘿，科学救不了我们。
Spirituality won't save us.
灵性并不能拯救我们。
Love won't save us.
爱救不了我们。
Anger won't save us.
愤怒并不能拯救我们。
All of it.
所有这一切。
We need all of it, and we need to try to wrestle with it and figure it out." And no one is necessarily better at this.
我们需要这一切，我们需要努力解决它并找出答案。”没有人在这方面一定更擅长。
Whatever car you drive, whatever profession, how much money you have in the bank, you may not be better or worse at this.
无论你开什么车，无论从事什么职业，银行里有多少钱，你在这方面可能不会更好或更差。
So I think it's really beautiful that the palette of things that you're discussing has become so broad, but you have remained very much you and very able to bring it to a lens that is authentically yourself, and I love that about the show.
所以我认为你所讨论的话题变得如此广泛真是太棒了，但你仍然保持着你自己，并且非常能够将它带到一个真实的你自己的镜头中，我喜欢这个节目。
I remain a friend, but I also remain a fan, so.
我仍然是朋友，但我也仍然是粉丝，所以。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
I'll take that in and right back at you.
我会接受并立即回复给您。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Thanks, man.
谢谢，伙计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And please come back again.
请再次回来。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Anytime.
任何时候。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You have a very exciting project that we didn't get to today, so save that for a future episode.
你有一个非常令人兴奋的项目，但我们今天没有完成，所以把它留到以后的剧集中吧。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
You got it.
你明白了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's super cool.
太酷了。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
You got it.
你明白了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's completely different than this, and like everything you touch, it turns to platinum, so.
它与这个完全不同，就像你触摸的所有东西一样，它会变成铂金，所以。
James Sexton:
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿：
Thanks, brother.
谢谢，兄弟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with James Sexton.
感谢您参加今天与詹姆斯·塞克斯顿的讨论。
To learn more about James' work and to find links to his book and other resources, please see the show note captions.
要了解有关詹姆斯作品的更多信息并查找他的书和其他资源的链接，请参阅节目注释标题。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请通过单击 Spotify 和 Apple 上的关注按钮来关注播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review, and you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您可以给我们留下五星级的评论，现在您可以在 Spotify 和 Apple 上给我们留下评论。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客或嘉宾有意见，或者您希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑的主题，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience, and it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这是我花了五年多时间编写的一本书，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验，涵盖了从睡眠到运动到压力控制的各个方面的方案，以及与注意力和动机相关的方案，当然，我还为所包含的方案提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." And if you're not already following me on social media, I am HubermanLab on all social media platforms.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 HubermanLab。
So that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客上的信息不同。
Again, it's HubermanLab on all social media platforms.
同样，所有社交媒体平台上都是 HubermanLab。
And if you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as what we call protocols in the form of one- to three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep, how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及我们所说的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议，涵盖从如何优化睡眠、如何优化多巴胺、故意冷暴露等所有内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training.
我们有一个基本的健身方案，涵盖心血管训练和阻力训练。
All of that is available completely zero cost.
所有这些都是完全零成本可用的。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to Newsletter, and enter your email.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的菜单选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯，然后输入您的电子邮件。
And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with James Sexton.
再次感谢您参加今天与詹姆斯·塞克斯顿的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。