Build Muscle, Great Posture & Resilience to Injury | Jeff Cavaliere
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Longevity ultimately is being able to maintain function as you age.
长寿最终是随着年龄的增长能够保持功能。
Because again, it's not the number of years, but the quality of the years.
因为同样，重要的不是岁月的数量，而是岁月的质量。
So all muscles in your body serve a function.
所以你身体里的所有肌肉都有其功能。
You're training these muscles to get stronger, and you're training your balance, and these are all skills that can be learned and improved.
你正在训练这些肌肉变得更强壮，你正在训练你的平衡能力，这些都是可以学习和提高的技能。
They're all trainable.
他们都是可训练的。
If it's trainable, it's fixable.
如果它是可训练的，那么它是可以修复的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Jeff Cavaliere.
今天我的客人是杰夫·卡瓦利埃。
Jeff Cavaliere is a Master of Science in Physical Therapy and a certified strength and conditioning specialist.
杰夫·卡瓦利埃 (Jeff Cavaliere) 是物理治疗理学硕士，也是经过认证的体能专家。
He is considered one of the world's foremost experts in training for both men and women to increase the strength and size of their muscles, their overall health, and longevity.
他被认为是世界上最重要的男性和女性训练专家之一，以增加肌肉的力量和大小、整体健康和寿命。
Today, we discuss some of the things that are not often discussed and considered the small things, but that are actually the big things, because they allow you to do the big things for your health and fitness and longevity decade after decade after decade, and to do so pain-free and while making continual progress.
今天，我们讨论一些不常被讨论并被认为是小事的事情，但它们实际上是大事，因为它们可以让你年复一年地为你的健康、健身和长寿做大事，而且没有痛苦，同时不断取得进步。
We also discuss the typical big things, the specific multi-joint exercises and cardio workouts that create the greatest results.
我们还讨论了典型的大事、具体的多关节练习和有氧运动，以产生最好的效果。
Today, you'll learn some simple exercises that will strengthen and protect your back, your shoulders, even improve your foot strength, which most people don't think about, but turns out to be foundational for everything, your pressing and pulling movements, leg training, and your cardio, and that will allow you to live your daily life with vigor and ease at any age.
今天，您将学习一些简单的练习，这些练习可以增强和保护您的背部、肩膀，甚至提高您的脚部力量，大多数人都没有想到这些，但事实证明它们是一切的基础，包括推拉动作、腿部训练和有氧运动，这将使您在任何年龄段都能充满活力和轻松地过日常生活。
I must say, I'm a longtime fan of Jeff's work, which he's been publishing to YouTube and elsewhere as Athlean-X.
我必须说，我是 Jeff 作品的长期粉丝，他将这些作品以 Athlean-X 的名称发布到 YouTube 和其他地方。
As you'll soon realize from today's episode, Jeff is far more than just another fitness trainer.
正如您很快就会从今天的节目中意识到的那样，杰夫不仅仅是另一位健身教练。
He has deep knowledge of human physiology and kinesiology, and he really understands that everybody's situation and body is different, and thus needs different tools to address and solve their specific problems and to achieve their desired results.
他对人体生理学和运动机能学有着深入的了解，他真正了解每个人的情况和身体都是不同的，因此需要不同的工具来处理和解决他们的具体问题并达到他们想要的结果。
I should also mention that Jeff and I went to the legendary Gold's Gym in Venice, California, where he took me through an arm workout, so biceps and triceps and forearms, and he showed me what has become his kind of signature move, which is face pulls, which are essential for improving your posture, for your rear delts, and for general stability of the shoulders.
我还应该提到，杰夫和我去了加利福尼亚州威尼斯的传奇黄金健身房，在那里他带我进行了手臂锻炼，包括二头肌、三头肌和前臂，他向我展示了他的标志性动作，即面拉，这对于改善姿势、三角肌后束和肩膀的总体稳定性至关重要。
So you can find a link to those workouts in the show note captions.
因此，您可以在显示注释标题中找到这些锻炼的链接。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors.
为了与这个主题保持一致，今天的节目确实有赞助商。
And now for today's discussion with Jeff Cavaliere.
现在是今天与 Jeff Cavaliere 的讨论。
Jeff Cavaliere, welcome back.
杰夫·卡瓦利埃，欢迎回来。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Thank you for having me.
谢谢你有我。
This time actually nice to come out to California.
这次来到加州真的很高兴。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Get a little workout in.
进去稍微锻炼一下。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, we have a studio this time.
是的，这次我们有一个工作室。
Last time, I think we were in a rented apartment in New York City.
上次，我想我们是在纽约市的一间租来的公寓里。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
It worked.
它起作用了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I said it then, I'll say it again, you're the man.
我当时就说过了，我再说一遍，你就是那个人。
I've been watching your videos and following your training advice for many years.
多年来我一直观看您的视频并遵循您的培训建议。
I would say Mike Mentzer, Dorian Yates, and you.
我会说迈克·门泽 (Mike Mentzer)、多里安·耶茨 (Dorian Yates) 和你。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's-
那是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've merged the principles and-
我合并了这些原则并且-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Very high humbling praise for me, for sure.
当然，对我来说是非常高的谦卑赞扬。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, you're 50.
嗯，你已经 50 岁了。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Never touched gear.
从来没接触过齿轮。
That's slang for steroids.
这是类固醇的俚语。
You're not on TRT.
你没有参加TRT。
You've never done it.
你从来没有这样做过。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you look amazing.
你看起来棒极了。
I know you're very disciplined with your diet, your training, but you're married, you have two kids, you put in the work all over life, and you're a testament to what's possible if people do things right.
我知道你对自己的饮食和训练非常严格，但你已经结婚了，你有两个孩子，你一生都在努力工作，你证明了如果人们做正确的事情，一切皆有可能。
So today I want to talk about a number of things, but something that I believe is not discussed enough, which you discuss a lot, and it's just been transformative for me because I also happen to be 50, is we both know that the big things, like doing the regular compound multi-joint lifts regularly, that's all critical.
所以今天我想谈谈很多事情，但我认为有些事情讨论得还不够，你们讨论了很多，这对我来说是变革性的，因为我也刚好 50 岁，我们都知道重要的事情，比如定期做常规的复合多关节举重，这都是至关重要的。
We know the big stuff is critical, and people talk about the big stuff all the time.
我们知道大事至关重要，人们总是在谈论大事。
But you talk about the small stuff that makes the big stuff possible for decade after decade.
但你谈论的是一些小事，这些小事使几十年后的大事成为可能。
And I credit you for fixing my back pain.
我相信你解决了我的背痛。
I credit you for the fact that I basically have no pain despite training very hard for more than three decades.
我相信你，尽管我经过三十多年的刻苦训练，但基本上没有疼痛。
So let's talk about the small stuff-
那么我们来谈谈一些小事——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
which is not actually the small stuff.
这实际上不是小事。
I think of it as the kind of hinges and bolts on the system that allow that system to work.
我认为它是系统上允许系统工作的铰链和螺栓。
So low back, shoulders, neck, these are the pieces that nobody wants to train, no one wants to think about, no one wants to talk about, so let's start right there.
那么腰部、肩膀、颈部，这些都是没人愿意训练、没人愿意去思考、没人愿意谈论的部位，所以我们就从这里开始吧。
How can we keep our lower back strong and pain-free while also doing things like deadlifts and squats, et cetera?
我们怎样才能在做硬拉和深蹲等动作的同时保持下背部强壮且无疼痛呢？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I'm glad you're talking about all of this.
我很高兴你能谈论这一切。
Obviously, it's such music to my ears.
显然，这对我来说就是这样的音乐。
But I think the background of being a physical therapist is what set the stage for my focus on these things.
但我认为作为一名物理治疗师的背景为我专注于这些事情奠定了基础。
Because when I was younger, pre-physical therapy days, I did all the dumb stuff, too, and I did all the things, just the big things, and realized that it wasn't necessarily a path to longevity.
因为当我年轻的时候，在物理治疗之前的日子里，我也做了所有愚蠢的事情，我做了所有的事情，只是大事情，然后意识到这不一定是长寿之路。
But in the immediate and in my 20s, I was literally breaking down then.
但在我20多岁时，我真的崩溃了。
I had knee pain then.
当时我膝盖疼。
I had back pain then.
那时我有背痛。
I had shoulder pain then.
当时我肩膀痛。
So I think people who are in their 20s these days have the luxury of having access to videos like this where they don't just say, "Oh, that's just maybe a hard workout." Now they start to say, "Well, maybe I'm actually doing some damage here.
所以我认为现在 20 多岁的人有幸观看这样的视频，他们不会只是说，“哦，这可能只是一项艰苦的锻炼。”现在他们开始说：“好吧，也许我实际上在这里造成了一些损害。
Maybe I do need to pay attention to the smaller things." And when you have enough videos out there that showcase these small things, for instance, you mentioned back pain, we talk about a major cause of back pain not being structural back pain.
也许我确实需要注意一些较小的事情。”当你有足够的视频来展示这些小事情时，例如，你提到背痛，我们会讨论背痛的主要原因，而不是结构性背痛。
A lot of the times, the back pain that we suffer from in our lives is not surgical.
很多时候，我们生活中所遭受的背痛并不是手术造成的。
It doesn't need surgical treatment.
它不需要手术治疗。
It just needs the right addressing of the muscles that contribute to that or how we allow muscles to get tight that shouldn't get tight if we did full range of motion on certain exercises.
它只需要正确处理有助于实现这一目标的肌肉，或者我们如何让肌肉变得紧张，如果我们在某些练习中进行全方位的运动，那么这些肌肉就不应该紧张。
So in particular, I mentioned the glute medius.
所以我特别提到了臀中肌。
And the glute medius is a muscle that Is going to control hip position, hip movement.
臀中肌是控制臀部位置、臀部运动的肌肉。
So if it's controlling the position of our hips, that means it's controlling our pelvis.
因此，如果它控制我们臀部的位置，那就意味着它控制我们的骨盆。
And if our pelvis is tilted or twisted or forward or backward, obviously the spine is literally adapting to the position of the pelvis beneath it, because it's connected through the sacrum.
如果我们的骨盆倾斜、扭曲、向前或向后，显然脊柱正在适应其下方骨盆的位置，因为它是通过骶骨连接的。
So how is that not important, right?
那么这怎么会不重要呢，对吧？
So all these muscles that connect to the pelvis that change its position are inadvertently going to change the position of the low back, directly the lumbar spine.
因此，所有这些连接到骨盆并改变其位置的肌肉都会无意中改变腰部的位置，直接改变腰椎的位置。
That is going to likely cause dysfunction down the road if you don't address that.
如果你不解决这个问题，很可能会导致未来的功能障碍。
So it is these little tiny muscles and these little tiny exercises.
所以就是这些微小的肌肉和这些微小的练习。
So I made a video years ago about an exercise that you could do to help to loosen up if there was a knot in the glute medius, right, an area of spasm, a localized area of spasm.
因此，我几年前制作了一个视频，内容是关于一项练习，如果臀中肌（右侧）有一个结，即痉挛区域，局部痉挛区域，您可以通过该练习来帮助放松。
Because when the spasm's there, you adjust the way you move, right?
因为当痉挛发生时，你会调整你的移动方式，对吗？
You're in pain, so you're trying to move around that spasm.
你很痛苦，所以你试图摆脱痉挛。
Something as simple as a leg raise, down and back while holding down that pressure point on the glute medius, helps to alleviate some of that discomfort and that spasm to the point where you could restore normal motion again, because you're not avoiding pain, and all of a sudden the back pain goes away.
一些简单的事情，比如抬腿、向下和向后，同时按住臀中肌上的压力点，有助于减轻一些不适和痉挛，直到你可以再次恢复正常运动，因为你无法避免疼痛，突然背痛就消失了。
There was nothing structurally there.
那里没有什么结构性的东西。
Fine.
美好的。
That's a great video.
这是一个很棒的视频。
It helped, I think 50 million people have seen it.
它很有帮助，我想有 5000 万人已经看过它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We'll put a link to it.
我们将放置一个链接。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is the one where people, everyone, you should watch the video.
这是人们、每个人都应该观看的视频。
This literally erased my back pain, what I thought was going to require surgery.
这确实消除了我的背痛，我认为这需要手术。
You lie on your side, one leg is in front of the other, toe down on the ground.
您侧躺，一条腿在另一条腿前面，脚趾朝下。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You put it up and back.
你把它放起来再放回去。
Jeff provides a beautiful description of what is essentially a very simple movement, but if you do it properly, the pain evaporates.
杰夫对本质上非常简单的动作进行了精彩的描述，但如果你做得正确，疼痛就会消失。
It's wild.
它很狂野。
And I thought it was a back issue, but it was a glute medius issue.
我以为这是背部问题，但其实是臀中肌问题。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
And again, you can feel referred pain anywhere.
再说一次，你可以在任何地方感受到牵涉性疼痛。
But what happens next is, great, you solved that area of spasm.
但接下来发生的事情是，太好了，你解决了那个痉挛的区域。
Why do we get spasm?
为什么我们会出现痉挛？
Oftentimes it's because we're providing artificial stability to an area of weakness.
通常这是因为我们为薄弱环节提供了人为的稳定性。
Because spasm is basically the muscles holding on and saying, "I need to protect this area." And so if the muscles around the low back are protecting that area, there's a reason for it.
因为痉挛基本上是肌肉坚持并说：“我需要保护这个区域。”因此，如果腰部周围的肌肉正在保护该区域，那么这是有原因的。
It's probably because the muscles that are supposed to be stronger are not strong enough.
可能是因为本来应该更强壮的肌肉却不够强壮。
So that doesn't mean that you do this one thing and you're done.
所以这并不意味着你做了这一件事就完成了。
Yes, you might have no back pain that day, or it might have relieved that episode, but it means that there's an area of weakness that could benefit from strengthening it.
是的，你那天可能没有背痛，或者它可能缓解了那次发作，但这意味着有一个弱点可以通过加强它来受益。
So you come back and you start to do glute medius strengthening.
所以你回来后开始强化臀中肌。
I demonstrate an exercise where you put yourself up against a wall, right, and you stand on the leg outside the wall, furthest away from the wall.
我演示了一个练习，你将自己靠在墙上（右侧），然后站在墙外、离墙最远的腿上。
And you let yourself drop, just let your hips drop, right?
然后你让自己下降，只是让你的臀部下降，对吗？
They get lazy.
他们变得懒惰。
And when they drop like that, the only way you can get them level again is to slide yourself back towards the wall.
当它们像那样掉落时，让它们再次保持水平的唯一方法就是将自己滑回到墙壁上。
And that's abduction of the hip that way to get you back to level again.
这就是髋部外展，让你再次回到水平。
That is the glute medius dysfunction, to get you back to that level position.
这就是臀中肌功能障碍，让你回到那个水平位置。
Well, ironically, every time you lift a foot off the ground to walk, you're getting a pelvis that drops side to side, right?
好吧，具有讽刺意味的是，每次你将一只脚抬离地面行走时，你的骨盆就会左右下垂，对吗？
Every time you go in a single leg stance, the pelvis is going to drop a little bit.
每次你采取单腿站立时，骨盆都会下降一点。
The people that have less control of that have more of what they call a Trendelenburg gait, where the pelvis rocks side to side as they walk.
控制能力较差的人有更多所谓的特伦德伦堡步态，即行走时骨盆左右摇摆。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So like, if you were looking at them from-
就像，如果你从——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Behind
后面
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the back.
后面。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Pick your preferred opposite gender folks, and then the butt swinging from side to side.
选择你喜欢的异性对象，然后把屁股左右摇摆。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
It might look good on Instagram, but it's not going to-
它在 Instagram 上可能看起来不错，但它不会——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
do good for your back, right?
对你的背部有好处，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So you go back and forth.
所以你来来回回。
Well, all that uncontrolled motion starts to wreak havoc, and eventually those muscles start to say, "I got to provide this artificial stability.
好吧，所有不受控制的运动开始造成严重破坏，最终这些肌肉开始说：“我必须提供这种人为的稳定性。
So what do I do?
那我该怎么办？
I spasm." And so if you don't extend the plan beyond the fix, how do you then build that strength up to prevent it from coming back?
我痉挛了。”因此，如果您不将计划扩展到解决方案之外，那么您如何增强这种力量以防止其再次出现？
And so I'm all about not just the fixes, but really about the preventative things you can do to stave this off long term.
因此，我关心的不仅仅是修复问题，而是您可以采取的预防措施，以长期避免这种情况的发生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we'll talk about the structure of a really good basic program.
所以我们将讨论一个非常好的基本程序的结构。
And many people talk about that, sets, reps, splits, et cetera.
很多人都在谈论这个，组数、次数、分次等等。
But let's just assume for a second that somebody listening to this is training their lower body twice a week.
但让我们假设一下，听这个的人每周训练两次下半身。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They're doing compound exercises and some isolation exercises.
他们正在做复合练习和一些孤立练习。
But they're dealing with some back pain, or they're not.
但他们要么面临着背痛，要么没有。
They're in their 20s or 30s, or structurally they're blessed and they're not dealing with it.
他们20多岁或30多岁，或者从结构上来说，他们很幸运，但他们没有处理这个问题。
What are some additional things that we would call small things that make the big things possible for much longer, and also make people stronger at the big things, that people can do?
还有哪些我们称之为小事的额外事情可以使大事变得更长久，并且使人们在大事上变得更强大，人们可以做到？
Would you say back hyperextensions?
你会说过度伸展吗？
Would you say-
你会说——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's where I'd start
这就是我要开始的地方
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
watch your video on medial, glute medius training.
观看有关内侧、臀中肌训练的视频。
What would be the exercise to insert, and how many times per week to do it, and when?
要插入的练习是什么？每周进行多少次？何时进行？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's a good question.
这是个好问题。
So yeah, reverse hypers are an amazing exercise.
所以，是的，反向超级训练是一项了不起的练习。
I like doing them because they're very easy to do anywhere.
我喜欢这样做，因为它们在任何地方都很容易做。
You don't have to have resistance on them.
你不必对他们有抵抗力。
They make a great machine that actually provides resistance, straps over your legs that you can lift additional weight on.
它们是一台很棒的机器，实际上可以提供阻力，将带子绑在你的腿上，你可以举起额外的重量。
But the challenge for most people, remember, they're chronically weak in these areas, so even just the body weight lifting of their own legs is going to be a significant enough challenge to get overload.
但请记住，对大多数人来说，挑战是，他们在这些区域长期处于虚弱状态，因此，即使只是举起自己腿部的体重，也将是一个足够大的挑战，足以导致超负荷。
But you can literally do it on your bed in the morning.
但你实际上可以早上在床上做。
You can get up, you lay enough of your torso on top of the bed so that you're not falling off the bed, but you can just have your legs hanging off your bed and your body up on top of the bed, and do a reverse hyper.
你可以站起来，将足够的躯干放在床上，这样你就不会从床上掉下来，但你可以将双腿悬在床上，身体放在床上，然后做反向超级动作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So raising the heels-
于是抬起脚后跟——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Raising the heels up
抬起脚后跟
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
so that they're parallel with the floor.
使它们与地板平行。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
As level as you can get them.
你能得到的尽可能多的水平。
Again, the bed's a little soft, so sometimes you kind of dip down as you're lifting your legs up.
再说一次，床有点软，所以有时当你抬起腿时，你会有点下蹲。
But it's sturdy enough that you can get to almost a parallel position to the floor.
但它足够坚固，您可以到达几乎与地板平行的位置。
I like to make sure, we'll talk about this, but the muscles are doing the work and not momentum, right?
我想确定一下，我们会讨论这个，但是肌肉在做功，而不是动量，对吗？
So you want to hold that contraction briefly at the top to convince yourself that you actually were able to perform the movement.
所以你需要在最高点短暂地保持收缩，以让自己相信你确实能够完成这个动作。
So you get up, hold it for a second.
所以你站起来，坚持一会儿。
And I think what's important on that too is, people who don't have the strength in their glutes, because it really is a glute weakness issue, not necessarily a low back issue.
我认为这一点也很重要，对于臀肌没有力量的人来说，因为这确实是臀肌无力问题，不一定是腰背问题。
A lot of times it's weakness in the glutes that's transferring the load To the low back that can't handle it.
很多时候，臀肌的弱点将负荷转移到了无法承受的下背部。
And people get the symptoms in the back, but it's the weakness somewhere else that's causing that.
人们会在背部出现症状，但这是其他部位的弱点造成的。
So I like to focus first and foremost on the glutes, glute max, glute med, just to make sure that they're strong enough.
所以我喜欢首先关注臀肌、臀大肌、臀肌中肌，以确保它们足够强壮。
And again, if you test even big-time athletes, we would test their rotational strength of their hips.
再说一次，如果你测试甚至是顶级运动员，我们也会测试他们臀部的旋转力量。
Some of the strongest athletes, some of the biggest squatters, some of the best lungers, they're lunging over 200 pounds.
一些最强壮的运动员、一些最大的深蹲者、一些最好的弓步运动员，他们的弓步重量都超过 200 磅。
You put them in position, you try to bend their hip into internal or external rotation of their bent knee, they can't resist it at all.
你把他们放在适当的位置，你尝试弯曲他们的臀部，使弯曲的膝盖内旋或外旋，他们根本无法抗拒。
So it just goes to show you that all the squatting, all the big lifts, aren't enough to counteract the smaller muscles.
所以它只是向你表明，所有的深蹲、所有的大举重都不足以抵消较小的肌肉。
There are different functions.
有不同的功能。
A rotational muscle of the hip is not a sagittal plane muscle of the hip.
髋部旋转肌不是髋部矢状面肌肉。
It has a different function, so they all have to be strengthened.
它的功能不同，所以都需要加强。
So along that line, we will do the reverse hyper as a good sagittal plane exercise focusing on the glute.
因此，沿着这条线，我们将进行反向超级训练，作为一个很好的矢状面练习，重点关注臀肌。
When they get to the top and I tell you to contract it, squeeze so you know that it's the glute that's squeezing and doing the work, not that you're arching at the low back, that you're using the muscles that are already overworked in the first place.
当他们到达顶部时，我告诉你收缩它，挤压，这样你就知道是臀部在挤压和做功，而不是你在腰部拱起，你正在使用一开始就已经过度劳累的肌肉。
So get that up there, squeeze, reinforce that it's the glute that did the work.
所以，把它举到那里，挤压，强化是臀肌在起作用。
Great exercise.
很棒的锻炼。
The glute medius, like I said, the hip bump.
臀中肌，就像我说的，臀部凸起。
Super easy exercise.
超级简单的运动。
You could do it anywhere against a wall.
你可以在任何靠墙的地方做这件事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's the one next to the wall.
就是靠墙的那个。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Against the wall.
靠在墙上。
You could do it anywhere against the wall.
你可以在靠墙的任何地方做。
Anything, you can just-
任何事，你都可以——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It is like a butt bump.
它就像一个屁股肿块。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
It's just a hip bump.
这只是臀部肿块。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You basically raise the leg that's closer to the wall, like 90 degrees, outer one you're standing.
你基本上抬起靠近墙壁的那条腿，比如 90 度，也就是你站立的外侧那条腿。
It's almost like you're trying to slide that hip-
这几乎就像你试图滑动臀部-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Just slide it up
只需向上滑动即可
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that's along the, that's closer to the wall, up the wall.
沿着墙，靠近墙，沿着墙。
So it's like, yeah, it's like a kind of like side booty bump to the wall.
所以这就像是，是的，这就像一种侧面的战利品撞到墙上。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But sliding it up.
但是向上滑动。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yep.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And this is sometimes where you have to invest, and this is the small things, but they're also small investments.
有时这就是你必须投资的地方，这是小事情，但它们也是小投资。
A little mini hip band, the little elastic bands.
一个小迷你臀带，小松紧带。
They're just loops, the little FitLoop they're called.
它们只是循环，它们被称为小 FitLoop。
Put it around your heels.
将其放在脚后跟周围。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Lay on your belly, bend your knees to 90 degrees.
俯卧，膝盖弯曲 90 度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And then just try to open your feet apart.
然后尝试将双脚分开。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Spread your feet apart, so now you're strengthening the rotation of the hip.
将双脚分开，现在您正在加强臀部的旋转。
Or hold one steady, let one leg, it's a little hard to show here, but let one leg come a little bit in front of the other, and then try to cross it over the other one, so now you're getting external rotation-
或者保持一条稳定，让一条腿，这里有点难以展示，但是让一条腿稍微在另一条腿前面，然后尝试将它越过另一条腿，所以现在你正在外旋-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
of that hip.
那个臀部。
So you're working external rotation against resistance, internal rotation against resistance.
所以你要对抗阻力进行外旋，对抗阻力进行内旋。
Super easy things to do.
超级容易做的事情。
You can attach a band around your ankle, and then you can do lateral hip swings, but with a component of rotating against the resistance of the band, too.
你可以在脚踝上绑一根带子，然后你可以进行横向臀部摆动，但也可以抵抗带子的阻力进行旋转。
So I'm moving my leg out and rotating out at the same time.
所以我将腿移出并同时向外旋转。
How do you do that?
你是怎么做到的？
Just focus on your toe.
只需专注于你的脚趾即可。
If your toe is turning out, your hip is turning out.
如果你的脚趾外翻，那么你的臀部也会外翻。
If your toe is turning in, then your hip is turning in.
如果你的脚趾内翻，那么你的臀部就会内翻。
So you don't have to focus so much on how do I move that, just focus on what the foot is doing, and you turn it.
所以你不必太关注我如何移动它，只需关注脚在做什么，然后你就可以转动它。
As long as the knee is going with the foot.
只要膝盖与脚一起运动即可。
You're not just spinning the foot.
你不只是旋转脚。
The knee and the foot go together.
膝盖和脚并在一起。
So there's simple things, and again, you might need a band or a mini band or something to get these smaller muscles more specifically, but it's $10, $15 for a band.
所以事情很简单，再说一次，你可能需要一根带子或迷你带子或其他东西来更具体地锻炼这些较小的肌肉，但一根带子要 10 美元、15 美元。
It's well worth the investment if you can get rid of these long-term recurrent issues that keep coming back and causing agony every two, three months as a reminder of what you're not doing.
如果你能摆脱这些长期反复出现的问题，这些问题每两三个月就会出现一次并造成痛苦，提醒你没有做什么，那么你的投资是非常值得的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break to acknowledge one of our sponsors, David.
我想稍微休息一下，向我们的赞助商之一大卫表示感谢。
David makes protein bars unlike any other.
大卫制作的蛋白质棒与众不同。
Their newest bar, the Bronze Bar, has 20 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar.
他们最新的 Bronze Bar 含有 20 克蛋白质，仅 150 卡路里，零克糖。
I have to say, these are the best-tasting protein bars I've ever had, and I've tried a lot of protein bars over the years.
我不得不说，这些是我吃过的味道最好的蛋白质棒，这些年来我尝试过很多蛋白质棒。
These new David bars have a marshmallow base, and they're covered in chocolate coating, and they're absolutely incredible.
这些新的大卫巧克力棒有一个棉花糖底座，上面覆盖着巧克力涂层，它们绝对令人难以置信。
I, of course, eat regular whole foods.
当然，我经常吃天然食品。
I eat meat, chicken, fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables, et cetera.
我吃肉、鸡肉、鱼、鸡蛋、水果、蔬菜等等。
But I also make it a point to eat one or two David bars per day as a snack, which makes it easy to hit my protein goal of one gram of protein per pound of body weight.
但我也强调每天吃一两块大卫棒作为零食，这样很容易达到我每磅体重一克蛋白质的蛋白质目标。
And that allows me to take in the protein I need without consuming excess calories.
这使我能够摄入所需的蛋白质，而不会消耗过多的热量。
I love all the David Bronze Bar flavors, including Cookie Dough, Caramel Chocolate, Double Chocolate, Peanut Butter Chocolate.
我喜欢大卫青铜棒的所有口味，包括饼干面团、焦糖巧克力、双重巧克力、花生酱巧克力。
They all actually taste like candy bars.
它们实际上尝起来都像棒棒糖。
Again, they're amazing.
再说一次，他们太棒了。
But again, they have no sugar, and they have 20 grams of protein with just 150 calories.
但同样，它们不含糖，并且含有 20 克蛋白质，只有 150 卡路里热量。
If you'd like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 David，可以访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
Right now, David is offering a deal where if you buy four cartons, you get the fifth carton for free.
现在，大卫正在提供一项优惠，如果您购买四箱，您可以免费获得第五箱。
You can also find David on Amazon or in stores such as Target, Walmart, and Kroger.
您还可以在亚马逊或 Target、沃尔玛和克罗格等商店找到 David。
Again, to get the fifth carton for free, go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
同样，要免费获得第五箱，请访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Our Place.
今天的节目也是由我们的地方给我们带来的。
Our Place makes my favorite pots, pans, and other cookware.
我们的地方生产我最喜欢的锅、平底锅和其他炊具。
Surprisingly, toxic compounds such as PFAS, or forever chemicals, are still found in 80% of non-stick pans, as well as utensils, appliances, and countless other kitchen products.
令人惊讶的是，80% 的不粘锅以及餐具、电器和无数其他厨房产品中仍然含有 PFAS 或永久化学物质等有毒化合物。
As I've discussed before on this podcast, these PFAS, or forever chemicals, like Teflon, have been linked to major health issues such as hormone disruption, gut microbiome disruption, fertility issues, and many other health problems.
正如我之前在这个播客中讨论过的那样，这些 PFAS 或永久化学物质，如特氟隆，与荷尔蒙破坏、肠道微生物群破坏、生育问题和许多其他健康问题等重大健康问题有关。
So it's very important to avoid them.
因此，避免它们非常重要。
This is why I'm a huge fan of Our Place.
这就是为什么我是《我们的地方》的超级粉丝。
Our Place products are made with the highest quality materials and are all PFAS and toxin-free.
我们的 Place 产品采用最优质的材料制成，不含 PFAS 和毒素。
I particularly love their Titanium Always Pan Pro.
我特别喜欢他们的 Titanium Always Pan Pro。
It's the first non-stick pan made with zero chemicals and zero coating.
这是第一个采用零化学品和零涂层制成的不粘锅。
Instead, it uses pure titanium.
相反，它使用纯钛。
That means it has no harmful forever chemicals, and it does not degrade or lose its non-stick effect over time.
这意味着它不含永久有害的化学物质，并且不会随着时间的推移而降解或失去不粘效果。
I cook my eggs in my Titanium Always Pan Pro almost every morning.
我几乎每天早上都会用 Titanium Always Pan Pro 煮鸡蛋。
The design allows for the eggs to cook perfectly without sticking to the pan.
该设计使鸡蛋能够完美烹饪而不会粘在锅上。
Right now, Our Place is having their biggest sale of the season.
目前，Our Place 正在进行本季最大规模的促销活动。
You can save up to 40% sitewide now through April 12th.
即日起至 4 月 12 日，您可在全站范围内享受高达 40% 的折扣。
Just head to fromourplace.com/huberman.
只需前往 fromourplace.com/huberman。
Again, that's fromourplace.com/huberman to save up to 40%.
同样，来自ourplace.com/huberman 最多可节省 40%。
Once I realized that the glute medius was causing, for me, back spasm issues that were severe enough that it was immobilizing, but then it was resolved by the information you provide in your videos.
有一次我意识到臀中肌对我来说造成了背部痉挛问题，这些问题严重到无法动弹，但后来你在视频中提供的信息解决了这个问题。
I started doing the hip slide up the wall movement.
我开始做臀部滑上墙的运动。
I still do that.
我仍然这样做。
The reverse hyper, and then the one that you put in a video, and again, we'll put links to these, that I found a little bit more of a setup But seems really useful is where you take some sort of rope or dog leash-
反向超级，然后是您放入视频中的那个，我们将再次放置这些链接，我发现了更多的设置，但似乎真正有用的是您可以使用某种绳索或狗皮带-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and you put it around your waist, and then you actually have a weight between your legs-
然后你把它挂在腰上，然后你的两腿之间实际上就有了一个重量——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
hanging-
悬挂-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a couple inches off the floor, and then the goal is to walk-
距离地板几英寸，然后目标是行走-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and it makes you kind of have to kind of monster walk or-
这让你不得不像怪物一样行走，或者-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and the idea is to not let the weight swing and hit your feet.
这个想法是不要让重物摆动并撞到你的脚。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Now, I know that sounds really awkward, but it really works-
现在，我知道这听起来很尴尬，但它确实有效-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because, and I know it works for a number of reasons.
因为，我知道它的作用有很多原因。
And by the way, all this strengthened other lifts for me dramatically.
顺便说一句，所有这些都极大地增强了我的其他提升能力。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I was kind of at a sticking point with a number of lower body lifts and upper body lifts, and it really seems like it helped create a real stability in the lower back glute area.
我在进行一些下半身举升和上半身举升时遇到了困难，它似乎确实有助于在下背部臀部区域建立真正的稳定性。
What is that dog leash thing doing?
那个狗绳子是干什么的？
And it's very simple, right?
而且很简单，对吧？
Just tie a weight between your legs-
只需在双腿之间绑一个重物即可-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then you're trying to walk, but not let it swing.
然后你试着走路，但不要让它摇摆。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Why does that work?
为什么这样有效？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Anytime you can take these smaller exercises and bring them a little closer to actual function, I think it's better.
任何时候你可以进行这些较小的练习并使它们更接近实际功能，我认为这是更好的。
It's better carry-over.
最好是继承。
So, if you're talking about actually being on your feet and walking, that's a step towards function.
所以，如果你说的是真正站起来走路，那就是迈向功能的一步。
You're going to be more useful, I think.
我想你会变得更有用。
But what you're doing is, as I mentioned before, every time you pick up a foot off the ground, you're in single-leg stance.
但正如我之前提到的，每次你将一只脚抬离地面时，你所做的就是单腿站立。
So, when you're in single-leg stance, if you're not contracting the glute medius on the side that you're standing on, your pelvis is going to drop.
所以，当你处于单腿站立时，如果你没有收缩你站立一侧的臀中肌，你的骨盆就会下垂。
You're going to drop in the side because you're not balanced anymore.
你会掉到一边，因为你不再平衡了。
You're going to drop towards the up leg.
你将会朝上腿下降。
You may not drop if you're consciously trying to stay level because you're firing the glute medius.
如果你有意识地试图保持水平，因为你正在激发臀中肌，你可能不会摔倒。
But for someone that has a weak glute, you just have them stand on that one leg, and you're going to see that pelvis drop.
但对于臀肌较弱的人来说，你只要让他们用一条腿站立，你就会看到骨盆下垂。
So, when you're doing this test, and you're adding the weight to the equation here, the weight is really to create a pendulum effect, right?
因此，当您进行此测试时，并将权重添加到此处的方程中，权重实际上是为了产生钟摆效应，对吧？
Because when you start to move anything, that weight's going to want to go in an exaggerated way.
因为当你开始移动任何东西时，重量就会以一种夸张的方式移动。
So, what we're trying to reinforce is, okay, can you do this and take these slow steps in these alternating single-leg stance and prevent that weight from shifting so much, i.e., because you're dropping too much, that it would hit or bang into the other leg.
所以，我们想要加强的是，好吧，你能做到这一点，并在这些交替的单腿姿势中采取这些缓慢的步骤，并防止重量转移太多，也就是说，因为你下降太多，它会击中或撞到另一条腿。
So, you have to be able to walk slowly through single-leg stance and not allow enough of a drop by having good contraction and control of the glute medius so that it would minimize the weight itself.
因此，你必须能够通过单腿姿势缓慢行走，并且通过良好的臀中肌收缩和控制来避免足够的下落，从而最大限度地减少重量本身。
It would quiet the motion of the weight itself.
它会使重物本身的运动安静下来。
So, you're reinforcing, how hard can I keep this thing engaged as I walk?
那么，你是在强调，当我走路时，我能多努力地保持这个东西的参与呢？
And if you could do this, the faster you could move yourself and still have minimal displacement of the weight, would be a good indicator that, wow, you're really starting to get good control and strength in that glute medius.
如果你能做到这一点，你移动自己的速度越快，并且重量的位移仍然最小，这将是一个很好的指标，哇，你真的开始在臀中肌中获得良好的控制和力量。
Another thing I like to do is, we call it a suitcase lunge.
我喜欢做的另一件事是，我们称之为手提箱弓步。
Right?
正确的？
So, you do a lunge where you offset the weight on one side.
所以，你做一个弓箭步，将重量转移到一侧。
So, you carry it in the...
所以，你把它带在...
If I'm going to lunge forward, I put it on the opposite leg.
如果我要向前冲，我会把它放在另一条腿上。
Right?
正确的？
Hold it on the opposite side.
将其放在另一侧。
What that's going to theoretically do is, obviously, when I lunge forward, I'm going to want to fall to the side of the weight.
显然，从理论上讲，当我向前冲时，我会想要落到重物的一侧。
Picture having even like a 50-pound weight or a 60-pound weight in your hand.
想象一下您手中有一个 50 磅或 60 磅的重物。
It's going to want to go that direction.
它会想要朝那个方向发展。
In this lunge position, if I can straighten myself out and keep my torso rigidly in place the whole time, then I can really strengthen that glute medius on the opposite side.
在这个弓步姿势中，如果我能挺直自己并始终保持躯干刚性，那么我真的可以加强另一侧的臀中肌。
And what's cool about that is it's also done in conjunction with a sagittal plane lunge.
最酷的一点是它还可以与矢状面弓箭步一起完成。
So, now I'm starting to train in multiple dimensions and planes at one time.
所以，现在我开始同时在多个维度和层面进行训练。
So, a lunge in this direction, suitcase carry offset, only one dumbbell, not in the other side, obviously.
所以，朝这个方向弓步，手提箱携带偏移，只有一个哑铃，显然不在另一侧。
You're going to get that desire for the body to fall towards the side of the offset weight, and again, that starts to shift the pelvis up.
你会渴望身体落向偏置重量的一侧，并且再次开始将骨盆向上移动。
The only thing that will keep it down is by keeping the hip in, abducted, and level, and that pelvis stays level.
唯一能降低它的方法是保持臀部内收、外展和水平，并且骨盆保持水平。
So, we'll do that with a lot of our athletes and work up to some pretty heavy weights there, too.
因此，我们将让很多运动员这样做，并在那里进行一些相当大的重量训练。
And again, it is a kill two birds with one stone type exercise because you still get the benefits of the lunge, which I love as an exercise.
再说一遍，这是一种用石头杀死两只鸟的练习，因为你仍然可以获得弓步的好处，我喜欢将其作为一种练习。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, let's say somebody is going to do some hip slide up the wall and/or reverse hypers-
所以，假设有人要做一些髋部滑上墙和/或反向超级动作——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
if they're lucky enough to have a gym with a reverse hyper machine, or even a-
如果他们足够幸运拥有一个配备反向超级机器的健身房，甚至是——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
It's a hyperextension
这是一种过度伸展
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
just a high bench-
只是一个高板凳——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or a hyperextension machine.
或超伸展机。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Classic hyperextensions.
经典的过度伸展。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
You just go face inward.
你只要面向内。
Or glute ham, I meant.
或者臀腿火腿，我的意思是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So, the upper body moves-
于是，上半身动了——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and for classic hyper-
对于经典的超
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
heels go up.
高跟鞋抬起来。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Which I like, too, by the way.
顺便说一句，我也喜欢。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's more direct, low back strengthening.
这是更直接的腰部强化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Which is always good.
这总是好的。
We can always strengthen our low backs.
我们总是可以加强我们的腰部力量。
Those muscles need to be strengthened, but again, I would say more often times, the source of the low back pain is coming from the muscles beneath them that are weak, chronically weak, like the glutes.
这些肌肉需要加强，但我更常说的是，腰痛的根源来自于它们下方的肌肉无力，长期无力，比如臀肌。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
So, reverse hypers, the hip sliding up the wall approach, maybe the dog leash with weight between legs.
所以，反向超速，臀部滑上墙壁的方法，也许是用皮带将狗的重量放在两腿之间。
Doesn't have to be a dog leash, folks, but you get the idea.
伙计们，不一定非要用狗绳，但你明白了。
To try and minimize the hip sway.
尝试尽量减少臀部摇摆。
Should those be done at the end of a lower body workout when the lower back and glutes are partially fatigued or very fatigued?
当下背部和臀部部分疲劳或非常疲劳时，是否应该在下半身锻炼结束时进行这些训练？
Or done separately at a time when they're really fresh?
或者在它们真正新鲜的时候分开做？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Two times.
两次。
I think you could do them on a dedicated day at a dedicated time.
我认为你可以在专门的一天、专门的时间做这些事情。
So, I approach my ab training as ab training, and I always keep it separate.
因此，我将腹肌训练视为腹肌训练，并且始终将其分开。
I just like to focus on, I'm going to do five to 10 minutes of core strengthening right now, here and now, separate from my workout.
我只是想集中精力，现在就在此时此地进行 5 到 10 分钟的核心强化，与锻炼分开。
Because I don't want it to be an afterthought.
因为我不想让它成为事后的想法。
I think it should be...
我想应该是...
It's a key component of what I do to keep a strong core, so I want to focus it, and I don't want to add it to the end of my workout when I'm already mentally checked out.
这是我保持强大核心力量的关键组成部分，所以我想集中精力，而且当我已经在精神上检查完毕时，我不想将其添加到锻炼的最后。
Right?
正确的？
So, I do that.
所以，我就这么做。
I think when you start to have these issues that require special programming, right, then you should own that special programming because it's yours.
我认为，当您开始遇到需要特殊编程的问题时，对吧，那么您应该拥有该特殊编程，因为它是您的。
It's what you need specifically.
这是你特别需要的。
Others might need things for their shoulders or for their rotator cuff.
其他人可能需要一些东西来固定肩膀或肩袖。
But whatever special programming is, do it as a small routine on its own day, at its own time.
但无论什么特别的节目，都要在自己的日子、自己的时间把它当作一个小例行公事。
Or even it could be on a workout day, but a separate time that you just go through as a routine, five minutes to seven minutes, three times a week or so.
或者甚至可以在锻炼日，但你只是作为例行公事进行单独的时间，五分钟到七分钟，每周三次左右。
That's it.
就是这样。
If you want to put it on a training day, it's actually not a bad idea to put these smaller muscle exercises or smaller focused exercises after your bigger training, because, A, you're not going to compromise your big training and the goals that you have for For that but you also are pre-fatiguing some of those bigger muscles that are going to want to dominate these small movements anyway.
如果你想把它放在训练日，在更大的训练之后进行这些较小的肌肉练习或较小的集中练习实际上并不是一个坏主意，因为，A，你不会妥协你的大训练和你为此设定的目标，但你也会预先疲劳一些想要主导这些小动作的较大肌肉。
The compensations that you're going to see on these small movements are always going to be the big muscles trying to kick in and do what they've always done, which is take over, and you're trying to get them to not.
你在这些小动作上看到的补偿总是会是大肌肉试图介入并做他们一直在做的事情，即接管，而你试图让他们不这样做。
So if you can pre-fatigue them a little bit prior to doing these small exercises, you're actually setting the smaller muscles up for more success.
因此，如果您在进行这些小练习之前可以让它们预先疲劳一点，那么您实际上是在为较小的肌肉做好准备，以获得更大的成功。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, if I could travel back to my teens, and I started lifting when I was 16, and 20s and 30s, I would've started doing all of these things-
是的，如果我能回到十几岁的时候，我在 16 岁、20 岁和 30 岁的时候开始举重，我会开始做所有这些事情 -
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a couple times a week, or even just once a week, even before there was any pain.
每周几次，甚至每周一次，甚至在出现任何疼痛之前。
Because I had the same, I don't know if it's arrogance or just ignorance, that, oh, yeah, pain, that's what old guys talk about.
因为我也有同样的情况，我不知道这是傲慢还是无知，哦，是的，痛苦，这就是老家伙们谈论的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like, "I have no pain.
就像，“我没有痛苦。
I feel fine."
我感觉很好。”
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I think by training a certain way without pain for a very long time, it's almost like the spring is getting compressed, because it means that unless someone has perfect mechanics and they're covering all their bases through other sports and things of that sort, it's almost like the stronger, stronger, stronger you get, you're just setting yourself up for one of these things to go, and in my case, it was this lower back thing, and for some people, it's their shoulder.
但我认为，通过以某种方式进行很长一段时间的无痛训练，这几乎就像弹簧被压缩一样，因为这意味着除非有人拥有完美的力学，并且他们通过其他运动和类似的事情覆盖了所有基础，否则几乎就像你变得更强，更强，更强，你只是为其中的一件事情做准备，就我而言，这是下背部的事情，对于某些人来说，这是他们的肩膀。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
When you're young, those things that appear as post-workout soreness even can be masquerading for long-term pain problems and dysfunction down the road.
当您年轻时，那些看似锻炼后酸痛的东西甚至可能会掩盖长期疼痛问题和日后功能障碍。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right?
对吗？
Because again, when we're young, we just feel, "Hey, I'm sore.
因为，当我们年轻的时候，我们只是觉得，“嘿，我很痛。
I had a hard workout yesterday.
昨天我进行了艰苦的锻炼。
I'm a little stiff." Again, we get through it, we manage it.
我有点僵硬。”再说一遍，我们克服了它，我们管理了它。
It's not that interruptive of our life at that point, so we move on.
那时它并没有那么干扰我们的生活，所以我们继续前进。
But I believe that those are many examples of what is potentially happening beneath the surface, that if you continue down that road, that normal workout soreness becomes more chronic joint pain, discomfort, movement limitations.
但我相信，这些都是表面之下可能发生的事情的许多例子，如果你继续沿着这条路走下去，正常的锻炼酸痛就会变成更慢性的关节疼痛、不适和运动限制。
And we also lose range of motion as we get older, so if we're not focusing on actually trying to maintain that, it just starts to pile up, and it's one of those things where you look back, we look back years later and go, "Wow, I can't believe I've lost this much range of motion," or, "I can't believe I've gotten to this state," when it really was just accumulation of many, many of those days of doing things where you weren't paying attention to all the little things.
随着年龄的增长，我们也会失去活动范围，所以如果我们不专注于实际尝试维持这种活动范围，它就会开始堆积，这是你回头看时的事情之一，几年后我们回头看时会说，“哇，我不敢相信我已经失去了这么多的活动范围，”或者，“我不敢相信我已经达到了这种状态”，而这实际上只是许多很多天做的事情的积累，而你没有注意到所有这些事情小事。
So it doesn't really creep up on anybody.
所以它并没有真正影响到任何人。
It's like it's happening, and it's happening every day.
就好像这样的事情正在发生，而且每天都在发生。
It's not like you can't intervene.
这并不是说你不能干预。
You just have to be aware of what you need to do to intervene.
您只需要知道需要做什么来进行干预。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You have a post that really humbled me, and people are going to laugh.
你的帖子真的让我感到谦卑，人们会笑的。
They're going to be like, "I can't believe you can't do that." Well, now I can do it.
他们会说，“我不敢相信你做不到。”好吧，现在我可以做到了。
I'll explain what it is in a moment.
我稍后会解释它是什么。
But a longevity test-
但寿命测试——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Oh, boy
哦，男孩
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that includes test of balance-
其中包括平衡测试-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
strength, and inner fortitude, and that's the put your shoes and socks on- ...
力量，和内在的毅力，这就是穿上你的鞋子和袜子的-......
standing on one foot, obviously one foot, then the other.
一只脚站立，显然是一只脚，然后是另一只脚。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not sitting down, but doing that in the morning every day.
不是坐下来，而是每天早上都这样做。
And I'll tell you, if you're training hard, that lower back's going to ache a little bit-
我告诉你，如果你努力训练，腰部会有点疼——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
when you first-
当你第一次-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
first thing in the morning.
早上的第一件事。
This is a very cool test, and I force myself to do it now.
这是一个非常酷的测试，我现在就强迫自己去做。
And I have to say, a lot of mornings, I'm like, "I just want to sit down and put my shoes on."
我不得不说，很多早晨，我都会想，“我只想坐下来穿上鞋子。”
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah, right.
是的，对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I got this puppy now and he's grabbing my shoelaces- ...
我现在得到了这只小狗，他正在抓住我的鞋带——......
which makes it even more dynamic.
这使得它更加动态。
But in all seriousness, it's a very interesting, very simple test.
但严肃地说，这是一个非常有趣、非常简单的测试。
If you could just explain what it is.
如果你能解释一下它是什么。
Folks, trust me, you want to do this every single day.
伙计们，相信我，你们每天都想这样做。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So they call it the old man test.
所以他们称之为老人测试。
It's gender-neutral, though.
不过，它是不分性别的。
It could be a woman test.
这可能是一个女性测试。
Everybody is fair game.
每个人都是公平的游戏。
The goal here is to simply put your sock and your shoe on the floor on both sides.
这里的目标是将你的袜子和鞋子放在两侧的地板上。
Lay them down in front of you.
将它们放在您面前。
Untie your shoes, making sure they're loose enough that you can get them on your foot.
解开鞋带，确保它们足够宽松，以便可以穿在脚上。
Stand on one foot to begin the test, lean over, pick up that shoe, or pick up that sock, put the sock on, pick up that shoe, put it on, tie it, and then put the foot down.
单脚站立开始测试，倾身，拿起那只鞋子，或拿起那只袜子，穿上袜子，拿起那只鞋子，穿上，系好鞋带，然后将脚放下。
Only after you've tied the shoe can you put it down, and then go and do the other side.
系好鞋带后才能放下，然后再去做另一边。
And it is difficult.
这很困难。
It is very, very difficult.
这是非常非常困难的。
It happens to be one of the tests that I do a little bit better than other tests, but we were joking before.
这恰好是我比其他测试做得更好一点的测试之一，但我们之前开玩笑过。
I told you that about twice a year, I still get back pain every now and then, and mine came from leaning over to put my sock on the other day, and my whole back felt like it was going to blow up on me like that.
我告诉过你，大约一年两次，我仍然时不时地感到背痛，而我的背痛是前几天弯腰穿袜子时产生的，我的整个背感觉就像要爆炸一样。
So there's a lot going on inside the body when you're doing this, right?
所以当你这样做时，身体内部会发生很多事情，对吧？
Why would my back all of a sudden seize up on me when I'm going to put on my sock?
当我要穿袜子时，为什么我的背会突然抓住我？
Because you don't realize the responsibility that those lumbar paraspinal muscles have in trying to control even just leaning forward, and they're trying to make sure that you're doing it at a pace that's safe for your spine.
因为你没有意识到那些腰椎旁肌肉在试图控制甚至只是向前倾斜时所承担的责任，并且它们试图确保你以对脊柱安全的速度进行控制。
So doing this every day is a little mini workout for those muscles.
因此，每天这样做对这些肌肉来说就是一次小小的锻炼。
And again, I think we tend to get so lazy as we get older, and complacent, and so that once you start sitting down, you're just going to sit down when you put on your socks and shoes.
再说一次，我认为随着年龄的增长，我们往往会变得如此懒惰和自满，所以一旦你开始坐下来，当你穿上袜子和鞋子时，你就会坐下来。
What's the need to get up and do this every day if I'm comfortable doing this sitting down?
如果我能舒服地坐着做这件事，那么每天还需要站起来做这件事吗？
Or, "Wow, this was easier because I sat down today." You can't be seeking easy.
或者，“哇，这更容易了，因为我今天坐下了。”你不能追求轻松。
If you seek easy, you're going to get old a lot faster.
如果你追求轻松，你就会老得更快。
So this test is testing your balance.
所以这个测试就是考验你的平衡能力。
It is testing, again, some of the mini dynamic control from those muscles in the low back.
它再次测试了腰部肌肉的一些小型动态控制。
It's testing your ankle mobility in a way, because you're going to get a lot of this going on, the perturbation through your ankles and your knees, and it's testing your hip strength.
它在某种程度上测试你的脚踝灵活性，因为你会经历很多这样的事情，通过你的脚踝和膝盖的扰动，它正在测试你的臀部力量。
Because again, once you go on one leg, you're now talking about pelvic control the same way we did before, so you have to have good strength there.
因为，一旦你单腿行走，你现在就像我们之前一样谈论骨盆控制，所以你必须在那里有很好的力量。
But it's not uncommon for people to not be able to pass this test.
但人们无法通过这项测试的情况并不少见。
But with practice, like anything else, you're training these muscles to get stronger, and you're training your balance, and these are all skills that can be learned and improved.
但通过练习，就像其他任何事情一样，你正在训练这些肌肉变得更强壮，你正在训练你的平衡能力，而这些都是可以学习和提高的技能。
They're all trainable.
他们都是可训练的。
I actually put a video out not long ago about different measures of longevity, and one of them was that test.
实际上，不久前我发布了一个关于不同长寿指标的视频，其中之一就是那个测试。
Another one was pull-ups.
另一项是引体向上。
Another one was the number of pushups you could do.
另一个是你可以做的俯卧撑数量。
And we could talk about these after, but the number one was going back to your glute media strength, and can you lay in a side-lying plank position With the top leg up about 45 degrees.
我们可以稍后再讨论这些，但第一个是回到你的臀中肌力量，你能以侧卧平板支撑的姿势躺着，上腿向上约 45 度吗？
You could keep it stacked.
你可以把它堆起来。
It's a lot easier to stay in a plank position.
保持平板支撑的姿势要容易得多。
You raise that leg off of the other, now it's all relying on that lateral pillar strength of the underside hip, the one closest to the floor.
你将那条腿抬离另一条腿，现在一切都依赖于下侧臀部的侧向支柱力量，即最接近地板的那条腿。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So one arm down.
于是一只手臂垂下。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
One, or elbow-
一个，或者肘部——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Heels stacked
高跟鞋叠放
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
on the elbow.
在肘部。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, heels stacked at first.
好吧，一开始就是把高跟鞋叠起来。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah, at first.
是的，一开始。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
On your side.
在你这边。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So side plank.
所以侧平板支撑。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not just lying on your side.
不只是躺在你身边。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
No. Side plank.
不，侧平板支撑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's not the-
这不是——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Hip lift
提臀
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the picnic date-
野餐日期-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
stance.
立场。
It's lying on your...
它就躺在你的...
So side plank, and then you're going to raise the top leg up-
所以侧平板支撑，然后你要把上面的腿抬起来-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to make a 45 degrees between.
之间形成 45 度。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
A 45 degrees.
一个45度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And see if you can hold that even for just 30 seconds.
看看你是否能坚持 30 秒。
And it's difficult.
这很困难。
You'll feel a lot of shaking, you'll feel a lot of sagging of that bottom hip because you're asking your glute medius on that underside leg to hold you up into that position.
你会感到很强烈的颤抖，你会感觉臀部下垂的程度很大，因为你要求那条腿下侧的臀中肌将你支撑到那个位置。
So the beauty about that series of tests, though, is that they're all trainable.
不过，这一系列测试的优点在于它们都是可训练的。
So if it's trainable, it's fixable.
因此，如果它是可训练的，那么它就是可以修复的。
You can improve, as you have, right?
你可以改进，就像你已经做到的那样，对吧？
You're now much better at the test, the old man test.
你现在在老人测试中表现得更好了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
At the shoe test?
在鞋子测试中？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The old man test.
老人测试。
Yeah, definitely.
是的，绝对是。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are mornings when I want to cross one leg over the other-
有些早晨我想把一条腿交叉在另一条腿上-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
kind of go into like the, what do they call it?
有点像，他们叫它什么？
That kind of pseudo-crow pose they talk about in yoga.
他们在瑜伽中谈论的那种伪乌鸦姿势。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Just rest the ankle on there.
把脚踝放在那儿就行了。
It's like, "Uh-uh."
就像是“呃呃”。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And sometimes it...
有时它...
People are probably laughing at this.
人们可能正在嘲笑这一点。
Go try it, folks.
去尝试吧，伙计们。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
No, it doesn't-
不，它没有——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people might do it just right away, it's very easy.
有些人可能马上就能做到，这很容易。
Many people will find this difficult.
很多人会觉得这很难。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
To the point where you're like, "I don't think I can do this." But you quickly-
以至于你会说“我认为我做不到”。但你很快——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And strength is-
而实力就是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
get good at it
擅长它
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
Yeah, strength is not even a determining factor or predictor here, either.
是的，力量在这里甚至不是决定因素或预测因素。
You can be very, very strong-
你可以非常非常坚强——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
and do incredibly poorly on this test.
并且在这次测试中表现非常糟糕。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Because you're not strong in these areas.
因为你在这些方面都不强。
Or you could just have bad vestibular balance, right?
或者你可能只是前庭平衡不好，对吧？
It could be that alone.
可能仅此而已。
Once you start to lean forward or look down, you don't have good control.
一旦你开始向前倾斜或向下看，你就无法很好地控制。
But it is testing a variety of things, and if you do poorly on it, you can look a little deeper, investigate a little deeper through additional tests to try to find out exactly where your weakness is.
但它正在测试各种各样的东西，如果你在这方面做得不好，你可以再深入一点，通过额外的测试来调查更深入一点，试图找出你的弱点到底在哪里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
But it's a good broad-spectrum test to see how good your functional balance is.
但这是一个很好的广谱测试，可以了解您的功能平衡有多好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, some people might wonder how do you work up to it?
是的，有些人可能想知道你是如何做到这一点的？
There's something called Velcro shoes.
有一种东西叫魔术贴鞋。
No, I'm just kidding.
不，我只是开玩笑。
The...
该...
Or slippers.
或者拖鞋。
It's easier, right?
更容易，对吧？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's going to be quicker.
会更快。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Totally.
完全可以。
Right.
正确的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I think it's definitely worth trying.
我认为这绝对值得尝试。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think identifying these weak points I think is just so critical, and I'm probably going to say this 20 times during today's recording, but for the young guys and gals who are thinking, "Oh, that thing is so easy," trust me, with time, it's the gradual creep of little things that you stop doing.
我认为找出这些弱点非常重要，我可能会在今天的录音中说 20 遍，但对于那些想“哦，那件事太简单了”的年轻人和女孩来说，相信我，随着时间的推移，你会逐渐停止做一些小事。
I'm going to add the side plank in.
我要添加侧板。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I just haven't been doing much planking, not much isometric stuff.
因为我没有做太多平板支撑，也没有做太多等轴测的东西。
And I'm sure that I've got a weakness somewhere along the chain of muscles that's required to do that properly.
我确信我在肌肉链上的某个地方存在弱点，而这是正确完成这项工作所必需的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And what I love about these sorts of small things that support doing the big things for much, much longer, hopefully forever, is that they don't have to be done as part of the standard workout, and they can be incorporated into, like you're watching something on Netflix, and you just kind of move some furniture out of the way, and you just do these-
我喜欢这些小事情，这些小事情可以支持做大事更长时间，希望永远是这样，因为它们不必作为标准锻炼的一部分来完成，它们可以被纳入其中，就像你在Netflix上看一些东西，你只需要把一些家具移开，然后你就可以做这些——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Totally
完全
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
at that time.
那时。
Which is really cool and important, because it's not just about an additional workout.
这真的很酷也很重要，因为这不仅仅是额外的锻炼。
Because people are slammed.
因为人被骂了。
They've got so much to do.
他们有很多事情要做。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And like how am I supposed to do all this stuff, and be with sunlight, and this and that?
就像我应该如何做所有这些事情，如何与阳光相处，以及这个那个？
But it's straightforward.
但这很简单。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You know?
你知道吗？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Well, that...
嗯，那个……
Look, I think the thing that you've done better than anybody is practical implementation of the things that are going to benefit people, that are not time-consuming or overly time-consuming.
听着，我认为你比任何人做得更好的事情是切实执行那些有益于人们的事情，而不是耗时或过度耗时。
They're easily implemented.
它们很容易实现。
A lot of what I focus on is when we're talking about these drills or exercises to do, a lot of them are bodyweight, or a lot of them are done in minimal space.
我关注的很多内容是，当我们谈论这些练习或练习时，其中很多都是自重，或者很多都是在最小的空间内完成的。
Because the more elaborate it becomes, or the more time-consuming it is, or whatever it is, there's just so many reasons for people not to do them.
因为它变得越复杂，或者越耗时，或者无论是什么，人们就有很多理由不这样做。
And they are going to be viewed as the extra stuff until they become adopted, and they realize how much they're helping them.
在他们被收养之前，他们将被视为多余的东西，并且他们意识到他们对他们有多大帮助。
It's always going to be viewed as the extra stuff originally.
它最初总是被视为额外的东西。
So to get someone to buy into the concept, open up the timeframe where they can do them.
因此，为了让人们接受这个概念，请开放他们可以做的时间范围。
Let them do it during watching Netflix.
让他们在观看 Netflix 时这样做。
Let them do it, me, while I'm on the floor doing some crunches after I've already done my workout.
让他们做吧，我，当我完成锻炼后在地板上做一些仰卧起坐时。
Open up the restrictions so that you're still getting the effect, but you're minimizing the prescription of it so it's so demanding people don't want to do it.
放开限制，这样你仍然可以获得效果，但你最大限度地减少了它的处方，所以它的要求如此之高，人们不想这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So one thing that I don't think we've ever talked about on this podcast is that many people don't just work out, they also play a sport.
因此，我认为我们在这个播客上从未讨论过的一件事是，许多人不仅锻炼身体，而且还参加一项运动。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe they do golf, or maybe baseball or softball.
也许他们打高尔夫球，或者打棒球或垒球。
Maybe they swim.
也许他们会游泳。
In every sport, there are obviously dominant patterns of movement, and there's a lot that's out there about how to train to improve those patterns of movement.
在每项运动中，都有明显的主要运动模式，并且有很多关于如何训练以改善这些运动模式的方法。
I'd like to ask the opposite question.
我想问相反的问题。
Let's say somebody played baseball, or golfed, or whatever their sport was, and now they have imbalances that are the consequence of having done some activity, like a golf swing, over and over and over, standing in a particular way.
假设有人打棒球、打高尔夫球或其他任何运动，现在他们由于反复进行某些活动（例如高尔夫挥杆）、以特定方式站立而出现不平衡。
And they have pain, and they are thinking about longevity, not just of their golf game, but of everything else.
他们有痛苦，他们正在考虑长寿，不仅仅是他们的高尔夫比赛，而是其他一切。
Tennis, whatever.
网球什么的。
Just pick your sport.
只需选择您的运动即可。
I think this is very common and not commonly discussed.
我认为这是很常见的，但不常被讨论。
What can people do to compensate for these unilateral movements or for these always left foot forward type stance things that won't compromise their game, but also overcome any pain and imbalances?
人们可以做些什么来补偿这些单边运动或这些总是左脚向前的姿势，既不会影响他们的比赛，又可以克服任何疼痛和不平衡？
I've always been curious about this.
我一直对此很好奇。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That brings up the point of how sport-specific training has evolved over the years.
这就引出了多年来针对特定运动的训练是如何发展的问题。
There was a time when sport-specific training meant doing everything that you could to replicate the motions of the sport, and trying to strengthen those movement patterns.
曾经有一段时间，针对特定运动的训练意味着尽一切努力来复制运动的动作，并尝试加强这些运动模式。
I think, gladly, we've moved past that stage of training, because you can get better at that movement pattern by simply doing that movement pattern.
我认为，很高兴我们已经过了那个训练阶段，因为你可以通过简单地执行该运动模式来更好地掌握该运动模式。
You can increase the strength of your entire body by increasing the strength of your entire body.
通过提升全身的力量，可以提升全身的力量。
So the focus of the weight room can be to do your general strengthening bilaterally, right?
所以举重室的重点可以是进行双侧一般强化，对吗？
Regardless of what movement pattern direction your sport favors and improve the strength there and the function there because the carryover to your movement pattern is there.
无论你的运动偏向哪种运动模式方向，都要提高那里的力量和功能，因为你的运动模式的延续性就在那里。
Like, when you get stronger and then you go back to swing a bat, you're going to still have the increased strength that you built in the weight room in your swing of the baseball bat.
就像，当你变得更强壮，然后你回去挥动球棒时，你仍然会拥有你在举重室挥动棒球棒时增强的力量。
And you can throw harder if you're a pitcher, or you can throw further if you're a quarterback, if you improve your overall arm strength and your upper body strength.
如果你是投手，你可以投得更努力，或者如果你是四分卫，如果你提高了你的整体手臂力量和上半身力量，你可以投得更远。
A lot of upper body throwing strength has nothing to do with your arm.
很多上身投掷力量与你的手臂无关。
It has to do with the stability of your core.
这与核心的稳定性有关。
So if you're getting much stronger in your core, you can have more torque generation to throw the ball further without having to do anything to your arm.
因此，如果您的核心变得更加强壮，您就可以产生更多的扭矩，从而将球扔得更远，而无需对手臂做任何事情。
So, I think the strategy should be that when you're playing a sport and devoting a lot of time to it, whether at the professional level or not, you still should be focusing the majority of your strength training and conditioning work towards your overall balanced physique, trying to get strong across your entire body.
所以，我认为策略应该是，当你参加一项运动并投入大量时间时，无论是否处于专业水平，你仍然应该将大部分力量训练和体能训练集中在整体平衡的体质上，努力增强整个身体的力量。
Let the skill work be the skill work.
让技能工作成为技能工作。
And if you want to focus, there are certainly a few things.
如果你想集中注意力，肯定有几件事。
We mentioned a couple more at the gym yesterday, but a few things that specific athletes can do to improve their specific skill, and that's fine.
昨天我们在健身房提到了一些事情，但是特定运动员可以做一些事情来提高他们的特定技能，这很好。
From a strength training perspective, and that's fine, like maybe more forearm work if you're having to swing a racket or a bat, right?
从力量训练的角度来看，这很好，如果你必须挥动球拍或球棒，可能需要更多的前臂训练，对吧？
That's fine.
没关系。
That can be done in addition to your basic core lifting.
除了基本的核心提升之外，还可以这样做。
But to go back to the days where the strength training was basically replicating the motions of the sport, especially nowadays where you've got athletes who never stop playing their sport.
但回到过去，力量训练基本上是复制运动的动作，尤其是现在，运动员们从未停止过他们的运动。
It's young athletes.
这是年轻的运动员。
They're playing baseball year-round through all these fall leagues and winter leagues and there's way too much repetition of the same movement pattern.
他们全年都在参加所有这些秋季联赛和冬季联赛的棒球比赛，并且相同的运动模式有太多的重复。
And that doesn't end well because you can see what's happening these days with pitchers.
这并没有好结果，因为你可以看到这些天投手发生的事情。
Like, it's almost a rite of passage.
就像，这几乎是一个成人仪式。
How many years are they going to be able to pitch before they have to have a Tommy John surgery?
在接受汤米·约翰手术之前，他们还能投球多少年？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What is the Tommy John surgery?
什么是汤米约翰手术？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
The ulnar collateral ligament basically being replaced or it tears in their elbow.
尺侧副韧带基本上被替换或者肘部撕裂。
They're out for an entire season.
他们缺席了整个赛季。
But it's like some of these pitchers, it's like they want to get it done early so they can hopefully come back and then have a string of years where they can dominate.
但这就像其中一些投手一样，他们希望尽早完成任务，这样他们就有希望回来，然后在接下来的几年里占据统治地位。
It's crazy, but I think a lot of it is coming from a lot of overuse, a lot of repetition, not enough moving into other sports and movement patterns to balance off the strains and stresses that they're doing in that sport, their chosen sport.
这很疯狂，但我认为这很大程度上是由于过度使用、大量重复、没有足够地进入其他运动和运动模式来平衡他们在这项运动、他们选择的运动中所做的紧张和压力。
And it's causing a lot of avoidable stress that, again, just fixing it through a more managed, well-balanced approach in the weight room is probably key number one.
它造成了很多本可以避免的压力，而在举重室通过一种更有管理、更平衡的方法来解决它可能是第一要务。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's interesting.
这很有趣。
That's not the answer I expected, but really cool to hear that.
这不是我期望的答案，但听到这个真的很酷。
So doing the classic all-around weight training, squats, some deadlifts-
所以做经典的全能重量训练，深蹲，一些硬拉——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
The goal should be to strengthen your body, to improve your flexibility everywhere.
目标应该是增强你的身体，提高你各处的灵活性。
If you're talking about, let's say, a situation with a pitcher where you have hypermobility of your shoulder because your throwing requires a lot more range of motion than a non-throwing shoulder, you don't have to say, "Well, I'm mobilizing my shoulders now, so I have to do a lot of mobility work on my throwing shoulder." That might not be necessary.
比方说，如果你谈论的是投手的情况，你的肩膀活动过度，因为你的投掷需要比非投掷肩膀更大的运动范围，你不必说，“好吧，我现在正在活动我的肩膀，所以我必须在投掷肩膀上做很多活动性工作。”那可能没有必要。
In some cases, you might want to not do that because it's already mobile enough because of the skill work.
在某些情况下，您可能不想这样做，因为由于技能工作，它已经足够移动了。
So it's not like a broad you do everything you do here, you do there on each side.
所以这不像一个女人，你在这里做所有事情，你在每一侧都做那里。
You might want to actually steer away from some of the things that you're repetitively using in the sport itself.
您可能想要真正远离您在运动本身中重复使用的一些东西。
But from a strengthening standpoint, you'll never go wrong sticking to the core lifts, building up your strength in those core lifts, and bilaterally strengthening your body and your balance and your coordination and your explosivity and your power.
但从强化的角度来看，坚持核心举重、在核心举重中增强力量、双边强化身体、平衡性、协调性、爆发力和力量，永远不会出错。
You're not going to go wrong.
你不会出错的。
That does transfer back over to the sport itself.
这确实又回到了这项运动本身。
People think that it has to be in this sport-specific motion to transfer back over there.
人们认为必须通过这项特定于运动的运动才能转移回那里。
That's not true.
那不是真的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One thing I noticed yesterday when we were training, as well as in your videos, is that whenever you have the opportunity to do a movement standing as opposed to seated, you'll do that.
我昨天在训练时以及在您的视频中注意到的一件事是，只要您有机会站立而不是坐着做动作，您就会这样做。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whenever you have the opportunity to stagger your stance a bit, not fully lunging, but offset your stance a bit, you'll do that.
只要你有机会稍微错开你的立场，不是完全冲刺，而是稍微偏移你的立场，你就会这样做。
And then you also talked about even on a dumbbell curl, leaning a bit toward the side that you're curling up, assuming you're doing alternating dumbbell curls, can be very useful.
然后你还谈到，即使是在哑铃弯举上，稍微向你弯举的一侧倾斜，假设你正在做交替哑铃弯举，也会非常有用。
Would you sort of explain the general logic for that, and then maybe we can touch into a few of the specific examples?
您能否解释一下一般逻辑，然后我们可以讨论一些具体的例子吗？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I have a phrase, "If you want to look like an athlete, you have to train like an athlete." Right?
我有一句话，“如果你想看起来像一名运动员，你就必须像运动员一样训练。”正确的？
And what that really means is like, sure, people might want to look athletic.
当然，这真正的意思是，人们可能希望看起来很运动。
They want to have an athletic physique.
他们想要拥有运动般的体格。
They might want to have the six-pack abs.
他们可能想要拥有六块腹肌。
They want to have what they think is an athletic-looking physique.
他们想要拥有他们认为的运动型体格。
That's great because a lot of people want that.
这很好，因为很多人都想要这样。
But you have to train for it.
但你必须为此进行训练。
It comes at a price.
这是有代价的。
There's a way to get there, and I believe that the way to get there is by training like an athlete.
有一种方法可以达到这个目标，我相信达到这个目标的方法就是像运动员一样训练。
It doesn't mean you have to start going out and doing, again, all these things that people thought is what athletes need to do to be athletic.
这并不意味着你必须开始出去做人们认为运动员需要做的所有这些事情才能保持运动能力。
You just have to start, A, caring a little bit more about what you do.
你只需要开始，A，多关心你所做的事情。
So treat it like you're an athlete and these little things matter.
因此，请像对待运动员一样对待这些小事情。
It goes back to the original point.
它又回到了原点。
The little things matter just like they would if this was your contract on the line.
小事很重要，就像这是你的合同一样。
Every little thing would matter.
每一件小事都很重要。
But more importantly, functionally, what do athletes do?
但更重要的是，从功能上来说，运动员做什么？
Most athletes, not all, but most athletes are on their feet.
大多数运动员，不是全部，但大多数运动员都站起来了。
Most athletes move around.
大多数运动员都会四处走动。
You move around, you're not squared up with your feet right next to each other unless you're...
当你四处走动时，你的双脚不会并排成直角，除非你……
I mean, in one phase of an offensive lineman's duty, they stand up and their feet are square, but they quickly stagger their feet for more stability.
我的意思是，在进攻线锋职责的一个阶段，他们站起来，双脚呈方形，但他们会迅速错开双脚以提高稳定性。
So you need to be able to operate from that position, I think, as often as you can, because it's not to produce professional athletes.
因此，我认为，你需要能够尽可能多地从这个位置进行操作，因为它不是培养职业运动员。
It's to produce a body that's functioning the way it prefers to function.
它是为了产生一个能按照它喜欢的方式运作的身体。
Why do we default do that?
为什么我们默认这样做？
If I told you, "Andrew, I'm going to come over here and I'm going to try to push you over right now," would you stand up like this or would you put one foot back?
如果我告诉你，“安德鲁，我要到这里来，我现在要试着把你推倒”，你会像这样站起来还是会把一只脚向后退？
Like by default, you would instantly go to one foot back and you try to lean into me and get more stable because your body instantly knows that's a more stable position.
就像默认情况下一样，你会立即向后退一脚，然后尝试靠向我并变得更稳定，因为你的身体立即知道这是一个更稳定的位置。
If I can train with more stability, I know I can decrease injury risk no matter what I'm doing.
如果我能够更加稳定地训练，我知道无论我做什么，我都可以降低受伤风险。
You talked about even something as simple as the curl.
你甚至谈到了像卷曲这样简单的事情。
It's not just looking at the bicep, but when I turn towards the bicep and I kind of screw, I call it screwing down, as I screw down on that weight, I'm able to stabilize the torso a little bit more over this shoulder.
这不仅仅是看二头肌，而是当我转向二头肌并且我有点拧紧时，我称之为拧紧，当我拧紧那个重量时，我能够在这个肩膀上更加稳定躯干。
I can even dig the arm into my side a little bit, engaging the lats, stabilizing the shoulder girdle, so that when I lift the weight, I have more tension in the biceps, number one, but more stability that the biceps can work from by stabilizing the entire shoulder girdle.
我什至可以将手臂稍微向身体一侧凹陷，接合背阔肌，稳定肩带，这样当我举起重量时，我的二头肌就会有更大的张力，第一，但通过稳定整个肩带，二头肌可以发挥更大的稳定性。
When I'm out in space like this, it's a little bit more of a freewheeling deal here where I don't have that stability.
当我在这样的太空中时，这里更像是一种随心所欲的交易，但我没有那种稳定性。
So, is something going to happen or go wrong from doing that?
那么，这样做会发生什么事情或者出问题吗？
No, but that's not creating the most functionally stable body.
不，但这并不能创造出功能最稳定的身体。
So by turning your body around that arm, keeping it stable in your side and curling, I'm able to create a little bit more stability there.
因此，通过将你的身体围绕那只手臂转动，使其在你的一侧保持稳定并卷曲，我能够在那里创造更多的稳定性。
I take it to the same way down to the ground with a lunge.
我用弓箭步将它以同样的方式落到地面上。
When you lunge and do my favorite, a reverse lunge, which takes a little bit of the stress off the anterior knee-
当你弓步做我最喜欢的反向弓步时，它可以减轻前膝盖的一点压力——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So stepping backward
于是向后退了一步
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
taking a step backwards rather than forward.
退一步而不是前进。
Just again, I'm sensitive to that because I have pretty bad knees from those early days in the 20s of doing things wrong with flat feet.
再说一次，我对此很敏感，因为我在 20 多岁的时候就因为平足做错了事情，膝盖就很不好。
You want to, as you step back, A, take a little bit of a wider step on that back leg so you're creating a wider base of support, more balance, right?
当你后退时，A，你想在后腿上迈出一点更宽的步，这样你就能创造出更宽的支撑基础，更多的平衡，对吗？
Rather than being completely narrow.
而不是完全狭窄。
Because not just staggering my stance, but staggering and widening my base of support is what I do.
因为我所做的不仅仅是改变我的立场，而是改变并扩大我的支持基础。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, this is key.
哦，这是关键。
It's funny, if you're in the gym with people, I'm not a trainer, but occasionally I've shown some people how to do some things, and you say, "Widen your stance," they immediately put one foot further out-
有趣的是，如果你在健身房里和人在一起，我不是教练，但偶尔我会向一些人展示如何做一些事情，然后你说，“拉开你的立场”，他们立即把一只脚放远——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in front of the other.
在另一个面前。
But what you're talking about is getting them-
但你所说的是让他们-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Width
宽度
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the space between the insides of your feet-
脚内侧之间的空间-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
further apart.
距离更远。
So literally widening your stance.
所以实际上扩大了你的立场。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
And widening outside shoulder width.
并加宽外侧肩宽。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not lengthening your stance, right?
不会拉长你的立场吧？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right.
对。
And especially as you lengthen your stance, widening them in conjunction is going to create a wider base of support, more stability.
尤其是当你拉长你的立场时，同时加宽它们将创造更广泛的支持基础，更稳定。
So when we do that, you step back, you create a little bit of that width and balance.
所以当我们这样做时，你退后一步，创造一点宽度和平衡。
But as I go down into the lunge, you'll find if you don't lean your torso or turn your torso a little bit in the direction of that forward leg and kind of do that same screwing down effect that I talk about, that front leg will wobble a little bit.
但是当我向下进行弓步时，你会发现如果你不倾斜你的躯干或将你的躯干稍微朝前腿的方向转动一点，并且做我所说的同样的拧紧效果，那么前腿就会有点摇晃。
You'll feel that the hip is a little bit more unstable.
你会感觉臀部有点不稳定。
Back to, again, that single leg suitcase lunge we talked about where that hip drops, and you get a lot of that instability.
再次回到我们讨论过的单腿手提箱弓箭步，髋部下降的地方，你会得到很多不稳定性。
I want to be able to turn and sort of screw down on that hip, and what I'm doing is basically kind of tying the muscles of the pelvis together, muscles of the hip, co-contracting and creating more stability so that now, when I ask that quad and glute and hamstring to work and push me back to a standing position, it's working more efficiently because it's on a stable base.
我希望能够转动并拧紧臀部，我所做的基本上是将骨盆的肌肉、臀部的肌肉绑在一起，共同收缩并创造更多的稳定性，这样现在，当我要求股四头肌、臀肌和腿筋工作并将我推回站立位置时，它会更有效地工作，因为它位于稳定的基础上。
I've mentioned before, if we were going to jump and try to get the highest vertical jump we could, would you jump off this ground, this floor, or this table, or would you jump off of sand?
我之前提到过，如果我们要跳跃并尝试获得尽可能高的垂直跳跃，你会从这块地面、这层楼或这张桌子上跳下来，还是从沙子上跳下去？
Right?
正确的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Jump off a firm surface.
从坚硬的表面跳下。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right.
对。
If you jump off of sand, as soon as you try to place force down into the ground, it's going to dissipate because the ground itself is moving.
如果你从沙子上跳下来，一旦你试图向地面施加力，它就会消散，因为地面本身在移动。
Well, when we want to create as much force, and efficient force as possible, we want to have a stable base.
好吧，当我们想要创造尽可能多的力量和尽可能高效的力量时，我们希望有一个稳定的基础。
So that all that co-contraction of the hip, when you screw down into it, or even in the shoulder girdle, when you're going to then operate this elbow flexion, shoulder flexion movement of a curl, then you basically get a more efficient movement.
因此，当你将其拧入其中时，甚至在肩胛带中，当你要然后操作这种肘部屈曲、肩部屈曲的弯举运动时，所有髋部的共同收缩，那么你基本上会获得更有效的运动。
So stability is a key for more efficient movement and also, I think, long-term safer movement.
因此，稳定性是更高效运动的关键，我认为也是长期更安全运动的关键。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 for nearly 15 years now.
你们很多人都知道，我服用 AG1 已有近 15 年了。
I discovered it way back in 2012, long before I had a podcast, and I've been taking it every day since.
我早在 2012 年就发现了它，那时我还没有播客，从那时起我就每天都在听它。
AG1 is, to my knowledge, the highest quality and most comprehensive of the foundational nutritional supplements on the market.
据我所知，AG1 是市场上质量最高、最全面的基础营养补充剂。
It combines vitamins, minerals, prebiotics, probiotics, and adaptogens into a single scoop that's easy to drink and tastes great.
它将维生素、矿物质、益生元、益生菌和适应原结合到一勺中，易于饮用且味道极佳。
It's designed to support things like gut health, immune health, and overall energy, and it does so by helping to fill any gaps that you might have in your daily nutrition.
它旨在支持肠道健康、免疫健康和整体能量等，并通过帮助填补您日常营养中可能存在的任何缺口来实现这一目标。
And of course, we should all eat high-quality whole foods, but most of us are probably not getting enough prebiotics, vitamins, and minerals, and AG1 ensures that those gaps are filled.
当然，我们都应该吃高质量的天然食品，但我们大多数人可能没有摄入足够的益生元、维生素和矿物质，而 AG1 可确保填补这些空白。
I get asked all the time by people if they were to take just one supplement, what would my recommendation for that supplement be?
人们总是问我，如果他们只服用一种补充剂，我对该补充剂的建议是什么？
And my answer is always AG1, because it's just been so critical for supporting all aspects of my physical health, mental health, and performance by covering those nutritional, what we call foundational bases.
我的答案始终是 AG1，因为它通过涵盖这些营养（我们称之为基础），对于支持我的身体健康、心理健康和表现的各个方面非常重要。
And I know from my own experience and from everyone I've heard that I recommended it to, that they simply feel much better in a number of different ways when they take it regularly.
从我自己的经验以及我听说过我推荐的每个人那里我知道，当他们定期服用它时，他们在许多不同的方面都会感觉好多了。
If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 以获得特别优惠。
For a limited time, AG1 is giving away a week supply of AGZ, which is their sleep supplement, and a free bottle of vitamin D3+K2 with your subscription.
在有限的时间内，AG1 将赠送一周的 AGZ（这是他们的睡眠补充剂），以及一瓶免费的维生素 D3+K2。
AGZ is something that I helped design.
AGZ是我帮忙设计的。
It tastes great, and it's the only sleep supplement I take.
味道很好，也是我唯一服用的睡眠补充剂。
It has a collection of different things in it that has dramatically improved my sleep, both my slow-wave deep sleep and my rapid eye movement sleep, and I absolutely love it.
它里面有一系列不同的东西，极大地改善了我的睡眠，包括我的慢波深度睡眠和快速眼动睡眠，我非常喜欢它。
Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman to get a week supply of AGZ and a bottle of D3+K2 with your subscription.
再次强调，通过 Drinkag1.com/huberman 订阅即可获得一周的 AGZ 和一瓶 D3+K2。
Jumping around a little bit here, but I'm recalling the many things that have reversed or eliminated pain that is very common in anyone that works out, and one of those, you mentioned it, is pain at the kind of inner elbow point, kind of forearm, inner elbow.
这里稍微跳一下，但我回想起许多可以逆转或消除任何锻炼者中很常见的疼痛的事情，其中之一，你提到的，是肘部内侧点、前臂、肘部内侧的疼痛。
And I figured I had an elbow problem.
我想我的肘部有问题。
I had something going on with tendonitis of the elbow and, you know it- Turns out it was further away from that.
我患有肘部肌腱炎，你知道的——事实证明，情况离那更远了。
It was all happening at the level of the grip.
这一切都发生在握力的层面上。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you said, and I listened fortunately, on pull-ups-
你说，幸运的是，我在引体向上时听到了——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to not let the bar be at my fingertips, to try and get my knuckles over the bar.
不要让杠铃触到我的指尖，尝试将指关节放在杠铃上。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
And you have a beautiful demonstration of this.
你已经完美地证明了这一点。
It almost sounds like that trick that kids do where they go, "Hey, pull my finger."
这听起来就像孩子们走到哪里都会做的把戏，“嘿，拉我的手指。”
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You know?
你知道吗？
It's not that trick, folks.
伙计们，这不是那个把戏。
But where you put some resistance to each of your own fingers-
但是当你对自己的每根手指施加一些阻力时——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like your index finger, your middle finger, your ring finger, and then your pinky finger, and when you put the pressure on that pinky finger, you can feel it right at that elbow.
就像你的食指、中指、无名指，然后是小指，当你对小指施加压力时，你可以在肘部感觉到压力。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so sure enough, I was causing this elbow pain by doing pull-ups and slipping off the bar a bit, and at my fingertips.
果然，我的肘部疼痛是由于做引体向上和从杠铃上滑下来引起的，而且是在我的指尖上。
As soon as I took your advice and got my knuckles over the bar-
当我接受你的建议并把指关节放在吧台上时——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
even though it requires a little bit of a wrist bend, sure enough, I haven't had elbow pain in a decade.
尽管需要稍微弯曲一下手腕，但果然，我已经十年没有肘部疼痛了。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
It is one of those things that can happen so quickly, too.
这也是发生得如此之快的事情之一。
You could go from having no elbow pain to the very next day, having elbow pain, or even right after the workout, doing elbow pain, if you're doing a lot of chin-ups with this issue, where the bar is too far away.
你可能会从没有肘部疼痛到第二天出现肘部疼痛，甚至在锻炼后立即出现肘部疼痛，如果你因为这个问题做了很多引体向上，而杠铃离你太远了。
And it's just an overload issue.
这只是一个过载问题。
Essentially, the muscles, the flexors, the deep flexors of the forearm that run down into the fingers, it's actually the ring and fifth fingers.
本质上，肌肉、屈肌、前臂的深屈肌一直延伸到手指，实际上是无名指和小指。
So, the fourth-
那么，第四个——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
and fifth finger that tend to be the weakest and least resilient to that kind of stress.
第五根手指往往对这种压力最弱且最没有抵抗力。
If you're gripping through there and that bar gets deep into the fingers, or if you do it where you're doing a curl even, and the bar sits too deep into your hand there, and you try to curl heavy-
如果你握住那里，而杠铃杆深入手指，或者如果你在做弯举时，杠铃杆太深地进入你的手，而你试图用力弯举——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Meaning toward the ends of your fingers
朝着手指末端的意思
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
toward the ends of your fingers.
向手指末端。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Not into the actual meat of your hand.
不进入你手上的实际肉。
It's just a lot of strain, more than that muscle's really built for to handle, and those tendons get a little bit strained, and it can immediately feel like a knife in the elbow feel.
这只是很大的压力，超出了肌肉真正能够承受的压力，而且那些肌腱变得有点拉伤，立刻就会感觉像肘部有刀子一样。
And it takes a long time to go away, because how many other exercises do you do where you're gripping and requiring the grip to be in place to do that?
而且需要很长时间才能消失，因为您在握力的地方还做了多少其他练习，并且需要握力到位才能做到这一点？
Now, if you want to intentionally do this, you can do it intentionally, let's say an underhand lat pulldown, like they call it a hook grip, because what people want to discourage people from doing is pulling down too much with the bar, right?
现在，如果你想故意这样做，你可以故意这样做，比方说反手高位下拉，就像他们称之为钩握一样，因为人们想要阻止人们做的是用杠铃过度下拉，对吧？
Causing too much forearm involvement in whatever back exercise I'm trying to do.
在我尝试进行的任何背部锻炼中都会导致前臂过度参与。
But in that case, you're really trying to hook through the stronger fingers of the index finger, middle finger, right?
但在这种情况下，你真的想钩住食指、中指等较有力的手指，对吧？
And even the just, you're getting a little bit of assistance on the ring finger, but you're really trying to hook through there.
即使是公正的，你也会在无名指上得到一点帮助，但你真的很想通过那里。
All four fingers might be on the bar, but most of the force is being held through there.
所有四个手指可能都放在横杆上，但大部分力量都集中在此处。
And you're still pulling down a lot through your lats to pull that bar down.
而且你仍然需要大量下拉背阔肌来拉下杠铃。
So, it's not like you're just letting it hold all the weight.
所以，这并不是说你只是让它承受所有的重量。
But that little hook grip is meant to discourage any meaningful wrist flexion that would take over and take away some of the work of the lats.
但这种小钩握是为了阻止任何有意义的手腕弯曲，这种弯曲会接管并带走一些背阔肌的工作。
But if you've got a history of elbow issues, you don't need to use that grip.
但如果你有肘部问题的历史，你就不需要使用这种握法。
It's just not worth it.
这根本不值得。
The extra benefit of the little extra forearm involvement may not be worth it for you.
前臂稍微受累所带来的额外好处对您来说可能不值得。
But for people who find that they don't have elbow issues and they want to get a little bit of that, you can do it in an intentional way, but you really have to kind of steer away from making these fingers do the bulk of the work.
但对于那些发现自己没有肘部问题并且想要得到一点肘部问题的人来说，您可以有意识地做到这一点，但您确实必须避免让这些手指完成大部分工作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How did you figure that out?
你是怎么想出来的？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
By having that issue multiple times.
通过多次遇到这个问题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I was just, again, just blown away.
我再次被震撼了。
It was like, okay, I've got this inner elbow pain, and I'm curling, and I'm doing my tricep work, doing my back work, and I'm wondering, okay, what's wrong with my elbows?
就好像，好吧，我的肘部内侧疼痛，我正在做弯举，我正在做我的三头肌训练，做我的背部训练，我想知道，好吧，我的肘部出了什么问题？
And, I'm, at that time, a young guy.
而且，那时的我，还是个年轻人。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm like, "What's going on?" And then it makes perfect sense, as you pointed out.
我想，“发生了什么事？”正如您所指出的，这是完全有道理的。
Ring finger, pinky finger are taking too much of the load near the tips of the fingers.
无名指、小指在指尖附近承受了太多的负荷。
Force myself to put the bar or the dumbbell in the meat of my hand.
强迫自己把杠铃或哑铃放在我的手上。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Now we take a more traditional grip, right?
现在我们采取更传统的握法，对吗？
You're not relying on those distal tendons to have to do all that work and manage that load.
您不必依赖那些远端肌腱来完成所有工作并管理负载。
Now the hand can hold onto hundreds and hundreds of pounds, right?
现在手可以握住数百磅的重量，对吗？
So, if we can just get it into the meat of the hand, now I'm getting all the assistance of the intrinsic hand muscles on top of it.
所以，如果我们能把它放进手的肉里，现在我就得到了手部内在肌肉的所有帮助。
So now it's no longer a strain or a stress to those particular tendons.
所以现在它不再是那些特定肌腱的拉伤或压力。
But believe me, two things contribute to me figuring these things out.
但请相信我，有两件事有助于我弄清楚这些事情。
Number one, being a physical therapist changed everything for me, because I had to think of things differently.
第一，成为一名物理治疗师改变了我的一切，因为我必须以不同的方式思考事情。
Number two, when you're treating patients, not everyone presents the same.
第二，当你治疗病人时，并不是每个人的表现都一样。
So, you have to come up with alternative ways to get to the same end result.
因此，您必须想出其他方法来达到相同的最终结果。
I might be able to tell nine out of 10 people to do a Bulgarian split squat to alleviate knee pain, but for that 10th person, it just lights them up, and they can't do it.
我也许可以告诉十分之九的人做保加利亚分腿深蹲来缓解膝盖疼痛，但对于那第十个人来说，这只是让他们兴奋起来，而他们却做不到。
You have to be able to figure out how to work around that.
你必须能够弄清楚如何解决这个问题。
And the second thing is that I had the unfortunate but fortunate experience of having to deal with a lot of these things through my life in the early years, and even still now.
第二件事是，我有过不幸但幸运的经历，在早年甚至现在的生活中不得不处理很多这样的事情。
I still do things that cause inflammation and a need to reassess and look at what I'm doing and maybe why.
我仍然做一些会引起炎症的事情，需要重新评估并看看我在做什么，也许还有原因。
And like you, I knew when I first started experiencing that pain also in my 20s, I didn't have an elbow issue.
和你一样，我知道当我在 20 多岁时第一次开始经历这种疼痛时，我并没有肘部问题。
There's nothing structurally wrong with my elbow, so I had to look somewhere else.
我的肘部在结构上没有任何问题，所以我不得不看看其他地方。
I didn't look then, but I looked when I got older and had way too many of those incidents happen.
我当时没有看，但当我长大后我看了看，并且发生了太多这样的事件。
So, it forces you to look, and it forces me to look.
所以，它强迫你看，也强迫我看。
I have to look because this is what I do for a living, but it forces me to look and figure out what's causing this, and more importantly, what can you do to stop it?
我必须看看，因为这就是我的谋生手段，但这迫使我去寻找并找出导致这种情况的原因，更重要的是，你能做些什么来阻止它？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I and many others are eternally grateful, because that inner elbow pain, the lower back pain-
好吧，我和其他许多人都永远感激不已，因为肘部内侧疼痛，下背部疼痛-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Brutal
残酷
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
yeah, they're brutal.
是的，他们很残酷。
They can really take the pleasure out of a lot of things, because it's not just during training.
他们确实可以从很多事情中获得乐趣，因为这不仅仅是在训练期间。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The shoulders.
肩膀。
I'm going to knock on wood in a second because I've been fortunate that my shoulders haven't given me issues, but that means it's probably just next.
我马上就要敲木头了，因为我很幸运我的肩膀没有给我带来问题，但这意味着它可能就是下一个。
But perhaps that's also the consequence of having, once again, listened to your content, and whenever possible, I've tried to get into external rotation, which is, if I reference the Fonz, will anyone know what I'm talking about?
但也许这也是再次聆听你的内容的结果，只要有可能，我就尝试进入外部轮换，也就是说，如果我引用 Fonz，有人会知道我在说什么吗？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, thumbs out and giving the thumbs up, but thumbs rotated away from the belly button, away from the midline.
所以，拇指向外，拇指向上，但拇指旋转远离肚脐，远离中线。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Could you explain where the shoulder tends to be most vulnerable in this business of internal, thumbs pointing toward the belly button, versus external rotation during all sorts of movements, and also just daily life?
您能否解释一下，在各种运动以及日常生活中，拇指指向肚脐的内部旋转与外部旋转中，肩膀最容易受到伤害的地方是什么？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Good point here too is on top of the thumbs is not just the flipping of the hand itself through supination and pronation of the forearm, but literally letting the elbow kind of travel with that, right?
这里的要点也在于拇指之上，不仅仅是通过前臂的旋后和旋前翻转手本身，而是让肘部随之移动，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Yeah
是啊
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So you're letting everything move together because it's the rotation that's happening in this joint, this ball and socket up top, and-
所以你让一切都一起移动，因为这是在这个关节中发生的旋转，这个球和插座在顶部，并且-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Shoulder's got to rotate out
肩膀必须向外旋转
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
with it.
与它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
With it.
有了它。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So you'll find the elbow just-
所以你会发现肘部只是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
So we're not just, sorry, we're not just talking about moving your thumbs away from your belly button out.
所以，抱歉，我们不仅仅是在谈论将拇指从肚脐上移开。
For those just listening, we're talking about getting the elbows-
对于那些只是听的人来说，我们正在谈论获得肘部-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right, with it
对了，有了它
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in a bit more-
再多一点-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
as those thumbs go out.
当那些拇指伸出时。
The shoulder's externally rotating-
肩膀向外旋转-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
as well.
以及。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Which is key.
这是关键。
And the issue with internal rotation, external rotation is that they're both motions of the shoulder, right?
内旋、外旋的问题在于它们都是肩膀的运动，对吗？
We need both of them.
我们需要他们两个。
We need to be able to, if you go back to the pitcher, he needs to be able to externally rotate and then, of course, internally rotate to throw the ball.
我们需要能够，如果你回到投手，他需要能够外旋转，然后，当然，内旋转来投球。
I'm not saying that internal rotation is the devil.
我并不是说内旋是魔鬼。
What we need, though, is the ability to control internal rotation.
然而，我们需要的是控制内部旋转的能力。
We need the ability to have enough external rotation strength to hold that position for longer or to be able to control, right?
我们需要有足够的外旋力量来保持这个姿势更长时间或者能够控制，对吗？
The eccentric control from the external rotators is what actually controls the internal rotation.
外旋转体的偏心控制实际上控制内旋转。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The eccentric control from the internal rotators-
内旋转体的偏心控制-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
From the external rotators
从外旋转体
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
from the external rotators is what controls the-
来自外旋转器的是控制-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Is what controls internal rotation because as we're-
是控制内部旋转的因素，因为我们-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
lengthening the external rotators, we're controlling, if we have good control, the eccentric control of that, then we're slowing down the internal rotation, or at least controlling it at a certain pace.
延长外旋肌，如果我们控制得好的话，我们正在控制它的偏心控制，那么我们就会减慢内旋速度，或者至少将其控制在一定的速度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's extremely important when it comes to pitching.
这对于投球来说非常重要。
We have this rapid internal rotation going on-
我们正在进行这种快速的内部轮换——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
is that-
那是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which essentially the thumb is moving toward the midline.
基本上拇指正在向中线移动。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right, to throw
对了，扔
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
And so is the elbow, so is your shoulder.
肘部也是如此，肩膀也是如此。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So if the external rotators are eccentrically strong, they can control that and control the pace of that and make sure that it's not outpacing what your shoulder itself can structurally protect.
因此，如果外旋肌离心力很强，它们可以控制它并控制其速度，并确保它不会超过你的肩膀本身可以在结构上保护的范围。
So it's important to have that, too.
所以拥有它也很重要。
But internal rotation in the world of the non-athlete is particularly problematic if, A, you're posturally holding that position for way too long throughout the day, and which is what we all chronically are suffering from.
但在非运动员的世界里，如果你一整天保持这个姿势的时间太长，那么内旋就会特别成问题，而这正是我们所有人长期遭受的困扰。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Whether we're texting, typing, not focusing ever on the external rotators in our training.
无论我们是在发短信、打字，还是在训练中都不把注意力集中在外旋肌上。
You're just getting chronically tight and internally rotated.
你只是长期变得紧张和内旋。
And then when you go to do even basic things like lift your arm up over your head, you're creating an internal shoulder environment that's more prone-
然后，当你去做一些基本的事情时，比如将手臂举过头顶，你就创造了一个更容易发生的内部肩部环境——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
to creating less space and inflaming tissues that wind up getting pinched in that position.
创造更少的空间并导致组织发炎，最终在该位置被挤压。
That basically, when you're tight internally, you get changes to the shoulder capsule itself, which is all the ligamentous structures that surround it, that make you more internally rotated and tight.
基本上，当你内部紧张时，肩关节囊本身就会发生变化，肩关节囊是围绕它的所有韧带结构，使你更加内部旋转和紧张。
You can't get out of that position.
你无法摆脱这个位置。
So now when I go to raise my arm up, there's just less room in here.
所以现在当我举起手臂时，这里的空间就更少了。
For instance, I think we might have done this before, you and I, but if I were to have you just lean forward like this or slump-
举个例子，我想我们以前可能做过这样的事，你和我，但如果我让你像这样向前倾或者倒下——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
your shoulder and then raise your arm as high as you could in front of you.
肩膀，然后将手臂尽可能高地举到身前。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's as far as you get.
这就是你所能得到的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right?
对吗？
And you're limited, not because of anything that's necessarily tight right there, but structurally, there's a little bony bump on the top of your humerus that's actually getting stuck on the upper portion of your shoulder joint there.
你受到限制，不是因为那里有什么必然紧绷的东西，而是因为结构上，你的肱骨顶部有一个小骨头凸起，实际上卡在你肩关节的上部。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So now, bring your arm down, open up your chest as much as you can, turn your arm out a little bit.
所以现在，放下你的手臂，尽可能地打开你的胸部，稍微向外转动你的手臂。
Now raise it up overhead, and it goes higher.
现在把它举到头顶，它会升得更高。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Why?
为什么？
Because you just created external rotation inside the joint that allows it now to go up in a higher position.
因为您刚刚在关节内部创建了外部旋转，使其现在可以上升到更高的位置。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Well, what happens if you're chronically in this position of internal rotation, and you go to raise your arm, you go to wash your hair, you go to get stuff out of the cabinet, you go to do all the things you do every day, every time, with there being less space in there, there's more likelihood to pinch on a supraspinatus tendon.
好吧，如果你长期处于这种内旋位置，会发生什么，你抬起手臂，你去洗头，你去从柜子里拿东西，你去做你每天做的所有事情，每次，那里的空间越来越小，更有可能夹住冈上肌腱。
There's more likelihood to be pinched on a bursa.
滑囊被挤压的可能性更大。
And every time we pinch, we potentially inflame and cause more swelling inside that joint, which causes less joint space, right?
每次我们捏东西时，我们都可能会发炎并导致关节内部更加肿胀，从而导致关节空间减少，对吧？
So you're inflaming those tissues, more compression in that joint, and then more pain ultimately, and then that winds up causing, down the road, things like partial thickness tears and tears of the rotator cuff that we don't want.
因此，这些组织会发炎，关节会受到更大的压力，最终会产生更多的疼痛，最终会导致我们不想要的部分厚度撕裂和肩袖撕裂等情况。
So internal rotation in this elevated position is not good.
所以在这个升高的位置进行内旋是不好的。
Having external rotation abilities or strength that can help to centralize...
具有外部旋转能力或力量，可以帮助集中......
What it really does when people talk about rotator cuff training is, yes, you're working the external rotators, but really, what its main job is to actually keep that ball centered in the middle of the socket.
当人们谈论肩袖训练时，它真正的作用是，是的，你正在锻炼外旋肌，但实际上，它的主要作用是让球保持在球窝的中间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, I see.
哦，我明白了。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So as you go and you raise your arm up in an internally rotated dominant shoulder, it will migrate up.
因此，当您以内旋的优势肩膀举起手臂时，它就会向上移动。
Why?
为什么？
Because the deltoid pulls up.
因为三角肌会向上拉。
So as you're raising your shoulder up, the deltoid's pulling that humerus up, and the internal rotation of the other muscles that are already too tight, chronically tight, are just keeping it in the front side anyway.
因此，当你抬起肩膀时，三角肌会向上拉动肱骨，而其他已经太紧、长期紧绷的肌肉的内旋，无论如何都会将其保持在前侧。
So you're lifting your arm up, and you're getting very little space.
所以当你举起手臂时，你得到的空间很小。
What the external rotators will do is they'll keep it centered, so that as you raise, instead of it migrating up, it's countering the force of the deltoid.
外旋肌的作用是使其保持居中，这样当你举起时，它不会向上移动，而是对抗三角肌的力量。
So it's staying in the middle, and it basically can rotate and stay right in the middle where it has to be.
所以它停留在中间，它基本上可以旋转并停留在它必须在的中间。
You're not getting this migration or pinching going on.
你不会进行这种迁移或挤压。
So that's the real function of the rotator cuff is to maintain a more centralized position with less of this pinching.
因此，肩袖的真正功能是保持更集中的位置，同时减少这种挤压。
So you really have to focus on, when we're talking about avoiding shoulder issues, the biggest thing you can do is start training the rotator cuff, not stop training the rotator cuff.
所以，当我们谈论避免肩部问题时，你真的必须集中精力，你能做的最重要的事情就是开始训练肩袖，而不是停止训练肩袖。
And if you're doing a lot of heavy pressing or a lot of work with exercises that tend to internally rotate your shoulders now, then you have to do even more work for the rotator cuff to try to maintain that balance.
如果你现在正在进行大量的重压或大量的运动，这些运动往往会使你的肩膀内旋，那么你必须为肩袖做更多的工作才能保持这种平衡。
If you're doing all kinds of delt work and you're never doing rotator cuff work, you're just creating more and more of that imbalance.
如果你做各种三角肌训练，却从不做肩袖训练，那么你只会造成越来越多的不平衡。
So I think the biggest thing you can do is maintain mobility of the shoulder, mobility of the shoulder girdle itself, so the scapula being able to rotate, and then having strength of the muscles of that shoulder girdle, which are the rotator cuff.
所以我认为你能做的最重要的事情就是保持肩膀的活动性，肩带本身的活动性，这样肩胛骨就能够旋转，然后肩带的肌肉（即肩袖）有力量。
Those are the three main things you can do to keep- That shoulder functioning well and staying out of this domination of internal rotation with elevation.
这些是你可以做的三件主要事情，以保持肩膀功能良好并避免内旋与抬高的支配。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's your favorite external rotator exercise?
您最喜欢的外旋肌锻炼是什么？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
My favorite is just simply attaching a band to a stable, it could be a stair post, or it could be in a gym, just a rack, right?
我最喜欢的就是简单地将一根带子固定在马厩上，它可以是楼梯柱，也可以是在健身房里，只是一个架子，对吧？
And you step away, you put the band in your hand.
然后你走开，把乐队放在手里。
From the anchor point, you're going to step out until there's good tension on the band.
从锚定点开始，您将走出去，直到带子上有良好的张力。
If you were to let it relax, it would pull your hand towards your chest, towards your belly.
如果你让它放松，它会把你的手拉向你的胸部，拉向你的腹部。
You externally rotate to about back to neutral or a little bit beyond if you can.
如果可以的话，你可以向外旋转到大约回到中立位或稍微超出一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
A little bit beyond your torso.
超出你的躯干一点点。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
A little beyond your torso if you can.
如果可以的话，超出你的躯干一点。
It's even better if you have that range of motion.
如果您有这样的运动范围那就更好了。
Sometimes people don't.
有时人们不这样做。
And when you get it there, you, again, hold it, right?
当你到达那里时，你会再次握住它，对吧？
You hold it for a second just so you know that you actually muscled it out there and you didn't just swing it out there.
你握住它一秒钟，这样你就知道你实际上是用肌肉把它拿出来的，而不是简单地把它挥出的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
The number one thing people do here to cheat, and we talk about this, we talked about it in the gym quite a bit, your body knows how to compensate.
人们在这里做的第一件事就是作弊，我们谈论过这个，我们在健身房里谈论过很多次，你的身体知道如何补偿。
If you ever want to know what you're doing wrong, just look at yourself in a mirror and then look and see what your body's trying to do.
如果您想知道自己做错了什么，只需照照镜子，然后看看您的身体正在尝试做什么。
You'll realize the compensation is the direct opposite of what it's not doing, what the job it's avoiding.
你会意识到补偿与它不做的事情、它避免的工作直接相反。
So, when the rotator cuff is trying to externally rotate the shoulder, the way I can avoid that is just lift my elbow away from my side.
因此，当肩袖试图使肩膀外旋时，我可以避免这种情况的方法就是将肘部抬离身体侧面。
I can get my hand from here to here if I raise my arm out to the side.
如果我将手臂举到一边，我就可以将手从这里伸到这里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
But now I'm using my delt to do it and not the rotator cuff.
但现在我用三角肌而不是肩袖来做这个动作。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, keep that elbow pinned to your torso.
因此，请将肘部固定在躯干上。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So, you got to keep the elbow pinned to the torso.
所以，你必须将肘部固定在躯干上。
So, the easiest thing you can do is just put something underneath your arm.
因此，您能做的最简单的事情就是在手臂下面放一些东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
A little towel, fold the towel, put it underneath there, and then do the exercise.
一条小毛巾，把毛巾折叠起来，放在下面，然后做练习。
And if you find that your towel is dropping to the floor, it's obviously because you're lifting your elbow away from your body and you're using the wrong muscle.
如果您发现毛巾掉落在地板上，这显然是因为您将肘部抬离身体并且使用了错误的肌肉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do this as a warmup, do it at the end of the workout.
将此作为热身，在锻炼结束时进行。
How many sets, how many reps, how many times a week?
每周多少组、多少次、多少次？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
There's different applications of it.
它有不同的应用。
You can do it before a workout.
您可以在锻炼前进行。
So, if I'm going to press, like let's say bench press, I could use this as a good warmup before I go press, almost as a neuro-activation technique to make sure those muscles are alert and firing so that I can make sure that they're working when I go to press to keep my shoulders back in a better position.
所以，如果我要进行推举，比如卧推，我可以在推举之前将其用作良好的热身，几乎作为一种神经激活技术，以确保这些肌肉保持警觉和激发，这样我就可以确保它们在我进行推举时发挥作用，使肩膀保持在更好的位置。
And especially as I raise my arms up in an overhead press, I can make sure that they're alert, they're fired up, they're willing to contribute to keep that head centered when the arm's going up overhead.
尤其是当我在过头推举中举起手臂时，我可以确保他们保持警惕，他们充满激情，他们愿意在手臂举过头顶时保持头部居中。
So, I like to do them on pressing days as a neuro-activator before I train, and it's serving as a warmup, too.
所以，我喜欢在训练前的紧急日子里做这些作为神经激活剂，而且它也可以作为热身。
Or on other days, again, treating it as my special program, which is what I have to do because of all the issues that I've had with my shoulders.
或者在其他日子，再次将其视为我的特殊计划，这是我必须做的，因为我的肩膀出现了所有问题。
Again, this one didn't come necessarily from bad training, but just dumb decisions, trying to throw a baseball back with the Mets.
再说一次，这并不一定是来自糟糕的训练，而只是愚蠢的决定，试图与大都会队一起投回棒球。
I lost a bet.
我打赌输了。
It's now famous at this point, but a player bet me that I couldn't throw the ball from...
现在它已经出名了，但是一个球员跟我打赌我不能把球从...
Well, let's rephrase that.
好吧，让我们重新表述一下。
I bet that I could throw the ball from right field to third base on the fly, because it just looked rather short from where I was.
我打赌我可以将球从右外野快速扔到三垒，因为从我所在的位置来看，它看起来相当短。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
But it's actually a lot longer, and only the better arms in baseball can actually do that really easily.
但它实际上要长得多，只有棒球中更好的手臂才能真正轻松地做到这一点。
So, I have no idea why I thought I could, but I did, and literally the moment I let that ball go, I feel like my labrum went with it, right?
所以，我不知道为什么我认为我可以，但我做到了，从字面上看，当我放开那个球的那一刻，我感觉我的盂唇也随之消失了，对吗？
And maybe landed somewhere near second base because it just felt like a burning zipper pain in my shoulder, and I've had to deal with it ever since.
也许是落在二垒附近的某个地方，因为我的肩膀感觉就像拉链一样疼痛，从那以后我就不得不处理它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Did the ball get to third base?
球到达三垒了吗？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Oh, no.
哦，不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
No way, no. I think it landed with the labrum at second base.
没办法，不行。我认为它是用盂唇落在二垒的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
No way.
没办法。
So, I learned my lesson, but the fact is, it's something that you can adopt pretty easily as a special programming type thing.
所以，我吸取了教训，但事实是，你可以很容易地采用它作为一种特殊的编程类型。
And there's things you could do, too, to make it a little bit more interesting.
您还可以做一些事情来让它变得更有趣。
Once you get into position where you could do the actual repetition, you could then hold it in a neutral position.
一旦你到达可以进行实际重复的位置，你就可以将其保持在中立位置。
Neutral for this exercise would be not in, not out.
对于这个练习来说，中立是不进也不出。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So, where your fist is pointing straight ahead.
所以，你的拳头指向正前方。
And then take a big giant step away from the band.
然后远离乐队一大步。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So, you're increasing the resistance of the band dynamically, but still having to keep yourself in that same position.
因此，您动态地增加乐队的阻力，但仍然必须保持自己处于同一位置。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Because as soon as-
因为一旦——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, elbow's still locked to the side.
所以，肘部仍然锁定在侧面。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Fist out in front of you.
在你面前伸出拳头。
You're holding the band, there's tension.
你拿着乐队，有张力。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Step away from the bar that the band is fixed to so there's additional tension.
远离固定弹力带的杆，这样会有额外的张力。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
And it's going to want to pull your hand back-
它会想把你的手拉回来-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
but you keep it right where it is.
但你把它放在原来的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Got you.
明白你了。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And then the fun part of it is that I could then take it even further.
有趣的是我可以更进一步。
I could jump out there.
我可以从那里跳出去。
So now, it becomes a little bit more ballistic and dynamic.
所以现在，它变得更加有弹性和动态。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So, I can be in this position and then jump, and if I jump quickly, now it really wants to pull me in, but I have to still keep that same position here.
所以，我可以在这个位置然后跳，如果我跳得快，现在它真的想把我拉进去，但我仍然必须在这里保持同样的位置。
So, it's mimicking a little bit more of a ballistically dynamic force.
所以，它更多地模仿了弹道动力。
So, I could do that.
所以，我可以这么做。
I could start to change the angle.
我可以开始改变角度了。
I could be here in this position, now facing the anchor point, and it still wants to pull me into internal rotation.
我可能处于这个位置，现在面对锚点，它仍然想将我拉入内部旋转。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, band in front of you, not to the side.
所以，乐队要在你的前面，而不是侧面。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And then I could jump back and see if it pulls me down this direction.
然后我可以跳回来看看它是否会把我拉向这个方向。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Internal-external rotation is done so many different ways.
内旋和外旋有很多种不同的方式。
Again, I could be in this position here.
再说一遍，我可能会处于这个位置。
I'm just reaching my arm out in front of me and turning my arm all the way, thumbs down to the floor, all the way back past the sky-
我只是将手臂伸到面前，然后一直转动手臂，大拇指朝下放在地板上，一直向后越过天空-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
and then thumbs out towards my side, right?
然后向我这边伸出大拇指，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's internal-external rotation, and I don't even have a bent elbow, right?
这就是内旋外旋，我连肘部都没有弯曲吧？
Because we're talking about a shoulder movement, not an elbow movement.
因为我们谈论的是肩部运动，而不是肘部运动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
But when we do it, we could do it down low.
但当我们这样做的时候，我们可以把它做得很低。
It's going to be easier for people to start, and the more things you start to do with external rotation, internal rotation with the arm elevated, the more challenging it starts to become.
人们开始会更容易，而且你开始做的外旋、内旋和举起手臂的事情越多，它开始变得越有挑战性。
So, you progressively move towards movements where you're internally or externally rotating against resistance in a higher and higher arm position.
因此，您将逐渐转向在越来越高的手臂位置上抵抗阻力进行内部或外部旋转的运动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Love it.
喜欢它。
I want to take care of my shoulders.
我想照顾好我的肩膀。
For me, neck training has been fundamentally important for avoiding injury.
对我来说，颈部训练对于避免受伤至关重要。
Outside of the gym, got rear-ended in a car I had just bought.
在健身房外面，我刚买的车被追尾了。
My first car, this was many years ago, 2005 CR-V.
我的第一辆车，这是很多年前的事了，2005年的CR-V。
I'm like, "Driving my first new car." I'd driven used cars before.
我想，“驾驶我的第一辆新车。”我以前开过二手车。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Stopped at the light, and all of a sudden just, rack, someone just ran into me.
停在红绿灯处，突然，突然，有人撞到了我。
Person next to me ended up with some pretty bad whiplash and back pain.
我旁边的人最终遭受了严重的颈部扭伤和背部疼痛。
I was a little sore, but- Nothing really.
我有点痛，但是——没什么。
And it's not a controlled experiment, but I credit that I've been training my neck, even back then.
这不是一个对照实验，但我相信我一直在训练我的脖子，甚至在那时。
Now I learned how to do it properly from you and your video, and we will definitely provide a link to it.
现在我从您和您的视频中学会了如何正确执行此操作，我们一定会提供指向它的链接。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I talk about this nonstop.
我不停地谈论这个。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This video is so valuable.
这个视频太有价值了。
You don't need any special equipment.
您不需要任何特殊设备。
Some standard plates and a towel.
一些标准盘子和毛巾。
But this neck thing, it's not just for fighters.
但这个脖子上的东西，不只是战士的专利。
It's your upper spine.
这是你的上脊柱。
Posturally, I feel like people don't under- nowadays everyone's posture is so terrible.
姿势上，我觉得大家不要小看——现在大家的姿势都这么糟糕。
Posturally, it makes your default posture better.
从姿势上来说，它可以让你的默认姿势变得更好。
It's something we're always all working on.
这是我们一直在努力的事情。
But neck training for men and women.
但颈部训练适合男性和女性。
I think men probably would be okay with having a...
我认为男人可能会同意拥有...
Most of them would be like, "Oh, cool.
他们中的大多数人会说：“哦，酷。
I get a slightly bigger neck."
我的脖子稍微大一点。”
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Women probably want to avoid that.
女性可能想避免这种情况。
Is there a way that women, or men, but tends to be women, who want to have great posture, a strong neck, but they want to maintain that kind of elegant neck.
有没有一种方法，可以让女性，或者男性，但往往是女性，她们想要拥有优美的体态，强壮的脖子，但又想保持那种优雅的脖子。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They don't want a thicker neck.
他们不想要更粗的脖子。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is there a way that they can strengthen the neck muscles and achieve that without thickening the neck?
有没有一种方法可以增强颈部肌肉并在不使颈部变粗的情况下实现这一目标？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
I think that women would be less resistant to the idea of having a stronger neck, I think as long as we weren't talking about building massive traps along with it, right?
我认为女性对拥有更强壮的脖子的想法不会那么抵触，我想只要我们不谈论随之而来的巨大陷阱，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And I think that they think neck and traps, because they do feed into each other.
我认为它们会想到颈部和陷阱，因为它们确实相互影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
The reason why men who train their neck tend to have a better or much thicker look to their neck, better for men, is that they're also con- in conjunction likely training their traps, either directly or indirectly through some of the other movements they're doing, and in a heavy way.
训练颈部的男性之所以倾向于拥有更好或更粗的颈部，对男性来说更好，是因为他们也可能通过他们正在做的一些其他动作直接或间接地训练他们的斜方肌，而且是以较重的方式。
Women who tend to train their neck directly and not focused on building their traps at the same time, they're just going to have a stronger neck.
那些倾向于直接训练颈部而不同时专注于构建斜方肌的女性，她们只会拥有更强壮的颈部。
Because they're not necessarily the biggest muscles in here that grow substantially.
因为它们不一定是这里最大的、大幅增长的肌肉。
And again, when you look at the proportional growth in muscles from men and women, there's already a difference in how big these muscles will grow, male versus female.
再说一次，当你观察男性和女性肌肉增长的比例时，你就会发现，男性和女性的肌肉增长大小已经存在差异。
But now in an area where the muscles themselves don't grow to astronomically large proportions, you really aren't going to get that much size in the neck.
但现在，在肌肉本身没有长到天文数字般大的比例的区域，你的脖子真的不会有那么大的尺寸。
And I think women are chronically under-trained when it comes to the neck.
我认为女性在颈部方面长期缺乏训练。
I can't tell you how often that you'll prescribe some kind of an ab routine and I'm not even thinking about the repercussions on the neck, because for me it's like it's no strain at all.
我无法告诉你你多久会进行某种腹部锻炼，而且我什至没有考虑对颈部的影响，因为对我来说，这就像根本没有压力一样。
But a lot of people will complain, and most often it's women, that just doing the crunch, because yeah, I don't want them holding onto their neck-
但很多人会抱怨，而且最常见的是女性，只是做卷腹，因为是的，我不想让她们抓住自己的脖子——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
and cranking on their neck during a crunch.
并在紧缩时扭动脖子。
They'll say, "My neck is hurting, I can't do that.
他们会说：“我的脖子很疼，我不能这么做。
I can't do that routine." It's only hurting because of fatigue, not because...
我不能做那种例行公事。”只是因为疲劳而痛，并不是因为……
Their neck is being held in one position, and their fingers are just basically touching back there to just keep them away from cranking, and it's also to put-
他们的脖子被固定在一个位置，他们的手指基本上只是向后接触，以防止他们转动曲柄，而且这也是为了——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's how you want them, people-
这就是你想要的，人们——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
doing crunches.
做仰卧起坐。
Not cranking, not pushing their-
不转动，不推动他们-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Don't pull.
别拉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So just touching-
所以只是触摸-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the back of their head very lightly.
他们的后脑勺很轻。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Just touching the back of your head lightly.
只是轻轻触碰你的后脑勺。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And what you're getting there also is a little extra weight.
而且你得到的还有一点额外的重量。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
The way your arm's back there-
你的手臂回到那里的方式-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
is going to provide a little bit of extra resistance on a basic crunch.
将为基本的卷腹提供一点额外的阻力。
But it's also leaving the neck unsupported, because so often people are used to holding the entire weight of their head, and then what happens is they start to fatigue in their ab.
但这也会让颈部失去支撑，因为人们常常习惯于支撑头部的全部重量，然后他们的腹部就会开始疲劳。
Here we go again.
又来了。
What is the body's natural compensation?
什么是身体的自然补偿？
They know that the eyes have to get up when they're doing a crunch.
他们知道，当他们做仰卧起坐时，眼睛必须抬起来。
The eyes have to raise up.
眼睛必须抬起来。
So what do they do?
那么他们做什么呢？
They just pull on the head and the eyes come up, and they're not doing any more work for their abs, but they've gotten to where they thought they were supposed to be.
他们只是拉动头部，眼睛就会抬起来，他们不再为腹肌做任何工作，但他们已经到达了他们认为应该在的位置。
Natural compensation gone wrong.
自然补偿出了问题。
That's not what we want to do.
那不是我们想要做的。
So when women are encouraged to do it, quote-unquote, "right" and don't pull on your neck, they don't have the strength in their anterior neck to do that.
因此，当鼓励女性这样做时，引用不引用，“正确”，并且不要拉扯你的脖子，她们的颈前部没有力量这样做。
So doing this neck series that you were referring to is a great way to strengthen the neck.
所以，做你提到的这个颈部系列是强化颈部的好方法。
And again, depending on how much weight you use, you could just use a five or a 10-pound plate and have plenty of overload there to create a stronger neck without a lot of hypertrophy.
再说一次，根据你使用的重量，你可以只使用一个 5 磅或 10 磅重的盘子，并在那里有足够的负荷，以创造一个更强壮的颈部，而不会出现太多肥大。
And for those that aren't aware, the series is simply taking a plate.
对于那些不知道的人来说，该系列只是简单地拿了一个盘子。
Let's just say we start really light.
这么说吧，我们一开始就很轻。
We take a five-pound plate.
我们拿了一个五磅重的盘子。
We wrap it in a towel, nice cushy towel so it's not uncomfortable at all.
我们用毛巾包裹它，毛巾很舒服，所以一点也不不舒服。
You lay on a bench, and you're going to go basically in four different directions.
你躺在长凳上，基本上你会朝四个不同的方向前进。
You're going to rotate your body's position on that bench in four different ways to work the extensors, the flexors, and then the lateral neck muscles on both left and right sides.
您将在长凳上以四种不同的方式旋转身体的位置，以锻炼伸肌、屈肌，然后锻炼左侧和右侧的颈部外侧肌肉。
So all you have to do is, let's say you're starting on your back.
所以你所要做的就是，假设你从仰卧开始。
You lay on your back, head is off the edge of the bench.
您仰卧，头离开长凳边缘。
That nice cushy towel with the plate inside of it is put up on top of your forehead.
那条漂亮舒适的毛巾（里面有盘子）放在你的额头上。
You allow yourself to lean your head back.
你允许自己把头向后仰。
But as you come up, you want to also pull your chin down, right?
但当你上来的时候，你也想把下巴拉低，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Because you're not just trying to overextend or hyperextend your neck at any point.
因为你不只是在任何时候试图过度伸展或过度伸展你的脖子。
The stability we talked about before, whether it be the hips screwing in or the shoulders screw...
我们之前讲的稳定性，无论是臀部旋入还是肩部旋入……
The stability you get here is the retraction of the chin.
这里获得的稳定性是下巴的缩回。
That provides the stability to the neck.
这为颈部提供了稳定性。
So you have the retraction of the chin, which is just pulling it straight back.
所以你的下巴会缩回，这只是将其笔直向后拉。
It's going to feel like it moves only about a half an inch or so.
感觉上它只移动了大约半英寸左右。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's the position there, and then you pull your head back up to neutral again.
这就是那个位置，然后你再次将头拉回中立位置。
You flex your neck until you're back to neutral again.
你弯曲你的脖子，直到再次回到中间位置。
You do that 12 repetitions, however many, sub-fatigue here, but just enough to cause some fatigue.
你重复了 12 次，无论次数多少，这里都处于亚疲劳状态，但足以引起一些疲劳。
Turn onto your stomach at that point if you like, put the weight on the back of your head, and then do the same thing.
如果你愿意的话，此时可以俯卧，将重量放在后脑勺上，然后做同样的事情。
Retract first, make sure you got the stable neck.
首先缩回，确保颈部稳定。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Chin closer to your Adam's apple.
下巴靠近喉结。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Chin closer.
下巴靠近。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Good way to talk about it.
谈论它的好方法。
And then you basically allow your head to sink down forward off the edge of the bench, and then you're going to extend your neck back up again to neutral, or in this case, a little bit beyond into a little bit of extension.
然后你基本上让你的头从长凳边缘向前下沉，然后你将再次将你的脖子向后延伸到中立位置，或者在这种情况下，稍微超出一点点延伸。
And then you go to your side and the same deal.
然后你走到你这边，做同样的事情。
You allow your head to just bend a little bit to the laterally, like ear towards the shoulder.
你让你的头稍微向侧面弯曲，就像耳朵向肩膀弯曲一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
But you're laying on the bench.
但你却躺在板凳上。
You do the same thing.
你也做同样的事情。
Place the weight on top of the opposite side of your head, and then you're going to lift up against that weight.
将重物放在头的另一侧，然后你将对抗该重物。
These are just supposed to be done very slow, very controlled.
这些应该非常缓慢、非常受控地完成。
There's nothing crazy explosive about these.
这些并没有什么疯狂的爆炸性。
You're just supposed to feel those muscles.
你应该感觉到那些肌肉。
And trust me, if you have not done these, you do one, you start with one round of this and then wait until tomorrow, because you don't want to do too much, because I guarantee you're going to be sore.
相信我，如果你还没有做过这些，你就做一个，从一轮开始，然后等到明天，因为你不想做太多，因为我保证你会感到酸痛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Back in the day when I played football You didn't realize how weak your neck could get in an off-season until you put the helmet on for the first time.
回到我踢足球的那一天，直到你第一次戴上头盔，你才意识到休赛期你的脖子会变得多么脆弱。
And just one practice with the helmet on, and you're controlling all that extra weight of the helmet dynamically, and the neck would be sore for two, three days.
只要戴上头盔进行一次练习，你就会动态地控制头盔的所有额外重量，脖子就会酸痛两三天。
We had to accommodate even to the weight of the helmet.
我们甚至必须适应头盔的重量。
So with neck training, it's a long, slow process.
所以颈部训练是一个漫长而缓慢的过程。
You just start very light, you start submaximal, and you start building up your strength.
你刚开始时很轻，开始次最大强度，然后开始增强你的力量。
And then when you talk about a crunch, that's a nothing exercise-
然后当你谈论仰卧起坐时，那根本就不是一个练习——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
for maintaining stability and control.
以保持稳定性和控制力。
When you get into situations like you, where you have accidents and car accidents, you become not only just resilient, but potentially life-saving, by having a stronger neck.
当你遇到像你这样的情况时，发生事故和车祸时，你不仅会变得有弹性，而且通过拥有更强壮的颈部，你可能会挽救生命。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Gosh, if I could highlight, bold, and underline this and send it out as far as I can, the neck stuff, men and women, you will be positively amazed at the transformations.
天哪，如果我能突出显示、加粗并强调这一点，并尽可能将其发送出去，脖子上的东西，男人和女人，你会对这些转变感到非常惊讶。
Your pressing lifts will get stronger.
你的推举会变得更强。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Your pulling lifts will get stronger.
你的拉力会变得更强。
You get stronger.
你会变得更强。
Aesthetically, for guys, I mentioned this in the video yesterday-
从审美角度来说，对于男生来说，我在昨天的视频中提到了这一点——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but I'll say it again, that a lot of guys who work to widen their shoulders, if their neck strength isn't coming up proportionally, it looks like they got the wrong head on that body.
但我要再说一遍，很多努力拓宽肩膀的人，如果他们的颈部力量没有成比例地提高，看起来他们的头在身体上是错误的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It looks crazy.
看起来很疯狂。
Guys, you look ridiculous, especially in street clothes.
伙计们，你们看起来很可笑，尤其是穿着便装。
I'm not saying you need a giant neck, but there's a proportion thing there that's important if you care about that sort of thing.
我并不是说你需要一个巨大的脖子，但如果你关心这类事情，那么比例问题就很重要。
As I say this, I know that most people won't take the time to do it because it looks awkward.
当我这么说时，我知道大多数人不会花时间这样做，因为它看起来很尴尬。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a tiny play.
这是一场小戏。
They really-
他们真的——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
It's a weird thing to do in a gym, too.
在健身房里做这件事也是很奇怪的。
It just seems a little weird, but look it, people do a lot of weird stuff in gyms.
这看起来有点奇怪，但你看，人们在健身房里做了很多奇怪的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And this is one of the better weirder things you can do-
这是你能做的更好、更奇怪的事情之一——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
if you're going to invest some time.
如果你打算投入一些时间。
Again, it doesn't take a lot.
再说一遍，这并不需要太多。
It really doesn't take a lot to pay big dividends here because it is an area that's pretty much untrained.
这里确实不需要花很多钱就能获得巨额红利，因为这是一个几乎未经培训的领域。
Again, we're not talking traps.
再说一次，我们不是在谈论陷阱。
Traps get a lot of work, but those deep muscles of the neck don't get trained very often at all.
斜方肌训练量很大，但颈部深层肌肉却很少得到训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So much of what you teach is about winning the short game and the long game.
你所教授的大部分内容都是关于赢得短局和长局的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And to me, winning the long game is about being able to come in and do the big stuff year after year, decade after decade, so that when you're 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, why not?
对我来说，赢得持久战意味着能够年复一年、十年又十年地做大事，这样当你 40、50、60、70、80 岁的时候，为什么不呢？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
The experiment of whether people can have great strength and mobility, et cetera, into their 80s and 90s, with rare exceptions, has never actually been done.
人到了80、90岁，除了极少数的例外，是否还能拥有强大的力量和活动能力等的实验实际上从未进行过。
That experiment is happening now because resistance training, especially for women a few years back.
这项实验现在正在进行，因为阻力训练，尤其是几年前针对女性的阻力训练。
If it-
如果它——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
was in bodybuilders, nobody did it.
在健美运动员中，没有人做到这一点。
Now everyone knows this as part of the longevity game.
现在每个人都知道这是长寿游戏的一部分。
So I'm so excited that these, again, what sound like small things are getting out there thanks to you, because they really do make a difference.
所以我很兴奋，这些听起来像是小事的事情再次因为你们而得以实现，因为它们确实产生了影响。
And I believe that in our 80s and 90s, and maybe even beyond, people can move right and feel right and be posturally right.
我相信，在我们的 80 年代和 90 年代，甚至可能更晚的时候，人们可以正确地移动、感觉正确、保持正确的姿势。
There's a cool video, forgive me for going long, but we'll put a link to it, that I saw, no, it's not AI, of a woman escaping from a Chinese resting home.
有一个很酷的视频，请原谅我说得太长了，但我们会放一个链接，我看到，不，这不是人工智能，一个女人从中国疗养院逃出来。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So she's in her 90s, she's 92, and she's climbing over the front gate.
所以她已经90多岁了，92岁了，她正在翻过前门。
She was caught on surveillance camera.
她被监控摄像头拍了下来。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Oh, I haven't seen this one yet.
噢，这个我还没见过。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it's so cool.
这太酷了。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Surprised that hasn't come on my feed, for sure.
当然，我很惊讶这还没有出现在我的提要上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So she's crawling over the surveillance gate, and then she gets out, and then she walks away.
所以她爬过监控门，然后出去，然后走开。
Now, she's got some-
现在，她有一些——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a little bit of frailty to her, but there was a drop down to the ground on this big iron gate, and she's just like, "I'm out of here." Which is pretty inspiring.
对她来说有点虚弱，但是在这扇大铁门上，她掉到了地上，她就像是，“我要离开这里。”这非常鼓舞人心。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Well, that's not to say that when you do the things I'm saying, you do the small things, that you're not going to still have aches and pains and things-
好吧，这并不是说当你做我所说的事情时，你做一些小事情，你就不会仍然有疼痛和痛苦之类的事情——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
that you have to be able to also manage that.
你也必须能够做到这一点。
How can you show up each day and still manage the fact that, yeah, this shoulder's still a little bit sore, or this knee is a little cranky.
你怎么能每天出现并仍然管理这个事实，是的，这个肩膀仍然有点酸痛，或者这个膝盖有点暴躁。
You have to continue to show up if you're going to play this longevity game.
如果你想玩这个长寿游戏，你就必须继续出现。
Right?
正确的？
Because stopping is the fastest way to slow your body, right?
因为停下来是让身体减慢速度的最快方法，对吗？
So I think to slow your body down to a point of really poor quality of life.
所以我认为让你的身体放慢到生活质量非常差的程度。
You have to figure out how to manage through these injuries and train around and through these injuries.
你必须弄清楚如何处理这些伤病，并围绕这些伤病进行训练。
And a simple example of that, I always like to use an analogy of a construction zone.
举一个简单的例子，我总是喜欢用建筑区来比喻。
If there's one street that's shut down, you're not going to shut the whole city down.
如果有一条街道被关闭，你就不会关闭整个城市。
Right?
正确的？
You need to find a way to redirect traffic around there so the city can operate.
您需要找到一种方法来重新引导周围的交通，以便城市能够正常运转。
So if it was, let's say, that shoulder and you were doing, I don't know, a dumbbell or a barbell overhead press, you can't do it, it hurts.
所以，如果是那个肩膀，而你正在做，我不知道，哑铃或杠铃过头推举，你就做不到，会很痛。
You have to have a way to reroute that.
你必须有办法改变路线。
So let's say it's a machine press.
假设这是一台压力机。
Is that my first choice based on the things we talked about?
根据我们谈论的事情，这是我的第一选择吗？
You're sitting down, you're on a machine, you're in a fixed pattern.
你坐下来，你在一台机器上，你处于一种固定的模式中。
No. But if it allows you to still train, you're getting a lot of other benefits.
不会。但如果它允许您继续训练，您就会获得很多其他好处。
Number one, you're getting some additional strengthening of the, and activation of the deltoid.
第一，你的三角肌得到了一些额外的强化和激活。
You're getting some movement through the joint itself, which we know bathes the joint surfaces and helps to provide nutrition to the joint.
您可以通过关节本身进行一些运动，我们知道这会沐浴关节表面并有助于为关节提供营养。
You're moving that capsule so it doesn't get stiff and tight.
你正在移动那个胶囊，这样它就不会变得僵硬和紧绷。
You're doing a lot of things right, even though it might be choice B for the exercise.
你做的很多事情都是正确的，尽管练习的选项可能是 B。
Let's say you can't do any pressing at all.
假设您根本无法进行任何按压。
Again, you don't shut the city down, you just take a back road, right?
再说一遍，你不会封城，你只是走一条小路，对吧？
You just take another back road.
你只要走另一条小路就可以了。
The back road might be rowing.
后面的路可能是划船的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Rowing is going to still work the shoulder joint through extension.
划船仍然可以通过伸展来锻炼肩关节。
It's still going to provide some of those joint benefits.
它仍然会提供一些共同的好处。
It's still going to provide the capsular benefits.
它仍然会提供胶囊的好处。
It might not be stimulating the delts that way, but there's other exercises you could do for the delts that won't do that.
它可能不会以这种方式刺激三角肌，但是你可以做其他的三角肌练习，但不会这样做。
So our job is to figure out how we can always have something we can do so that the option is not, or the alternative is not nothing.
因此，我们的工作就是弄清楚如何才能始终拥有我们可以做的事情，这样我们就没有选择，或者没有选择。
Because that's when things really start to go wrong, when you opt for nothing.
因为那是事情真正开始出错的时候，当你什么都不选择的时候。
And that's when the aging process starts to really accelerate to the point of even just the functional aging, how you feel, and the quality of your life will sink if you don't continue to figure out ways to do that.
那时，衰老过程开始真正加速，如果你不继续想办法做到这一点，即使只是功能性衰老，你的感觉和生活质量也会下降。
So I always felt my mission or my goal was to empower people with these options and these alternatives of how do you do these things.
所以我一直觉得我的使命或目标是为人们提供这些选择以及如何做这些事情的替代方案。
Because again, if someone came to me as a PT and my bag of tricks contained one, two, and three, and they couldn't do any of them, then what do I do?
因为，如果有人来找我当 PT，而我的技巧包里有一、二、三，而他们一个都做不到，那我该怎么办？
I have to have options four and five there, too.
我也必须有第四和第五个选择。
And I think that's always been my strength is to figure out, not just to have option four and five on reserve, but then also have six, seven, eight, nine, and ten in case I needed those, too.
我认为我的优势一直是弄清楚，不仅仅是保留第四和第五个选项，而且还有六个、七个、八个、九个和十个，以防我也需要这些。
And if I could provide people with that information, then they know how to dip into those at the right time to keep going, keep training.
如果我可以向人们提供这些信息，那么他们就知道如何在正确的时间利用这些信息来继续前进，继续培训。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I would like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Joovv.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Joovv。
Joovv makes medical-grade red light therapy devices.
Joovv 生产医疗级红光治疗设备。
Now, if there's one thing that I have consistently emphasized on this podcast, it is the incredible impact that light can have on our biology and our health.
现在，如果我在这个播客中一直强调一件事，那就是光对我们的生物学和健康产生的令人难以置信的影响。
Now, in addition to sunlight, which I've talked about a lot on this podcast, red light, near-infrared, and infrared light have been specifically shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of cellular and organ health.
现在，除了我在这个播客中多次谈论的阳光之外，红光、近红外光和红外光已被具体证明对改善细胞和器官健康的许多方面具有积极作用。
These include faster muscle recovery, improved skin health, wound healing, improvements in acne, reduced pain and inflammation, improved mitochondrial function, and even improvements in vision.
这些包括更快的肌肉恢复、改善皮肤健康、伤口愈合、改善痤疮、减少疼痛和炎症、改善线粒体功能，甚至改善视力。
Nowadays, there are a lot of red light devices out there, but what sets Joovv lights apart, and why they're my preferred red light therapy device, is that they use clinically proven wavelengths, meaning they use the specific wavelengths of red light, near-infrared, and infrared light in combination to trigger the optimal cellular adaptations.
如今，市面上有很多红光设备，但 Joovv 灯的与众不同之处以及它们成为我首选红光治疗设备的原因在于它们使用经过临床验证的波长，这意味着它们结合使用特定波长的红光、近红外光和红外光来触发最佳的细胞适应。
Personally, I use the Joovv whole body panel about three to four times a week, usually for about 10 to 20 minutes per session, and I use the Joovv handheld light both at home and when I travel.
就我个人而言，我每周使用 Joovv 全身面板大约三到四次，通常每次大约 10 到 20 分钟，并且我在家和旅行时都使用 Joovv 手持灯。
If you would like to try Joovv, they're offering up to $400 off select products for listeners of this podcast.
如果您想尝试 Joovv，他们将为该播客的听众提供精选产品高达 400 美元的折扣。
To learn more, visit Joovv, spelled J-O-O-V-V, .com/huberman.
要了解更多信息，请访问 Joovv，拼写为 J-O-O-V-V，.com/huberman。
Again, that's J-O-O-V-V, .com/huberman.
再说一次，这是 J-O-O-V-V，.com/huberman。
Do you do cardio?
你做有氧运动吗？
You're naturally pretty lean.
你天生就很瘦。
I know you eat extremely well.
我知道你吃得非常好。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we can talk about nutrition a bit as well, but what are your thoughts on cardio?
我们也可以谈谈营养，但你对有氧运动有何看法？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Cardio is like the right foot to the left foot.
有氧运动就像右脚与左脚一样。
It's very important for the overall picture of health.
这对于整体健康状况非常重要。
If you're avoiding cardio and conditioning entirely, you're not as healthy as you think you are.
如果您完全避免有氧运动和体能训练，那么您并不像您想象的那么健康。
I don't do as much cardio as I should.
我没有做我应该做的有氧运动。
It's always my big confession that I don't, and the reason why is simply because I have to choose based on time limitation.
我一直坦白说我不这样做，原因很简单，因为我必须根据时间限制进行选择。
And for me, with priorities being to spend some time with my family and my boys, and how much can I actually get done with work and in my workout time, I always will take a step in the direction of strength training and weight training, but I try not to ignore it entirely.
对我来说，优先考虑的是花一些时间陪伴我的家人和我的孩子们，以及我在工作和锻炼的时间里能完成多少工作，我总是会朝着力量训练和重量训练的方向迈出一步，但我尽量不完全忽视它。
And when I do, I jump on a bike, and I do stationary bike riding because I like the fact that I can increase resistance on the pedals and kind of turn it into almost a pseudo ...
当我这样做时，我会跳上自行车，然后进行固定自行车骑行，因为我喜欢这样一个事实：我可以增加踏板上的阻力，并将其变成几乎是伪的......
Again, the meathead side of me wants to turn it into some sort of a resistance activity.
再说一遍，我的笨蛋一面想把它变成某种抵抗活动。
But of course, doing it for the duration to improve my cardiorespiratory health.
当然，长期这样做是为了改善我的心肺健康。
But it's also good for my knees.
但这对我的膝盖也有好处。
My knees are quite beat up.
我的膝盖已经很受伤了。
Again, that's something that I'll never be able to reverse, at least not without modern medicine.
再说一遍，这是我永远无法逆转的事情，至少在没有现代医学的情况下是这样。
But I have to manage that, and anytime I try to do anything where I'm running or jumping, it tends to hurt a little bit.
但我必须控制这一点，每当我尝试做任何跑步或跳跃的事情时，都会有点痛。
I do still love to jump rope.
我还是很喜欢跳绳。
We talked about jump rope before.
我们之前讨论过跳绳。
Jump rope happens to be a lot lower impact for me, as long as you can do it properly on the balls of your foot and absorb the shock of jump roping.
跳绳对我来说冲击力要小很多，只要你能正确地用前脚掌跳，吸收跳绳的冲击力。
But I would say between jump roping and stationary bike at a higher resistance level and done in interval fashion, those are my two favorite ways to do it.
但我想说的是，在较高阻力水平的跳绳和固定自行车之间以及以间歇方式完成，这是我最喜欢的两种方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, jump rope's great.
是的，跳绳很棒。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I haven't been doing it as much as I used to.
我没有像以前那样经常这样做了。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And now that I got this new pup, I've got him in his little penned area sometimes.
现在我有了这只新小狗，有时我会把他带到他的小围栏区域。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'll skip rope.
我还会跳绳。
I don't let him run around while I do it because I'm afraid I'm going to whip him-
我这样做的时候不会让他到处乱跑，因为我害怕我会鞭打他——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Whip him, for sure
肯定鞭打他
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
on accident.
发生意外时。
I don't want to do that.
我不想那样做。
But I'd forgotten how effective it is at getting heart rate up.
但我忘记了它对于提高心率有多有效。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Especially if you're doing some double unders-
特别是如果你正在做一些双下划-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or speed it up, or high knees and things like that.
或者加快速度，或者高抬腿之类的。
The coordination piece is awesome.
协调部分很棒。
It's one of these things, like back to the basics feels good.
这是其中之一，就像回到基础感觉很好。
It feels really, really good.
感觉真的非常非常好。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
There's a gamification aspect.
有一个游戏化的方面。
You want to learn a new skill.
你想学习一项新技能。
Can I do it single leg?
我可以单腿做吗？
Can I do it side to side?
我可以一边做一边做吗？
Can I do it double under, as you said?
我可以像你说的那样做双下吗？
There's little built-in challenges that I think we inherently always try to up the level of what we're doing to see what we can do or what we can't.
我认为我们本质上总是试图提高我们正在做的事情的水平，看看我们能做什么或不能做什么，这几乎没有什么内在的挑战。
But that's built-in.
但这是内置的。
That's not really built in on a lot of the other modes of conditioning, which is why people who do skip it, skip it, because it tends to be unapologetically kind of the most boring part of training.
这并不是真正建立在许多其他调节模式的基础上，这就是为什么人们跳过它，跳过它，因为它往往毫无疑问是训练中最无聊的部分。
If you're used to doing lots of different exercises and feeling the weight in your hands, it could be a little bit boring, but there's ways to make that more fun.
如果您习惯于进行大量不同的练习并感受手中的重量，这可能会有点无聊，但有一些方法可以让它变得更有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you like running?
你喜欢跑步吗？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I actually like running, but again, I can't tolerate it.
我其实很喜欢跑步，但是我又不能忍受。
My knees are just...
我的膝盖只是...
They feel like they want to detonate after about a quarter mile.
他们感觉自己想要在大约四分之一英里后爆炸。
Now, I could do it on my...
现在，我可以用我的...
I have a Woodway treadmill.
我有一台伍德威跑步机。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Which are incredibly forgiving.
这是令人难以置信的宽容。
It's like-
这就像——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which one is it?
是哪一个？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Woodway.
伍德韦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Woodway.
伍德韦。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
We used to have them in all the MLB weight rooms.
我们曾经在美国职业棒球大联盟（MLB）的所有举重室里都有它们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Basically, there's no deck underneath them, so it's like running on air.
基本上，它们下面没有甲板，所以就像在空中奔跑一样。
And best treadmill also.
还有最好的跑步机。
Pretty super expensive, but they're worth the money if people have the ability to invest in one and they want to run indoors.
非常昂贵，但如果人们有能力投资并且想要在室内跑步，那么它们就物有所值。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Are those arced ones, or are they straight?
那些是弧形的还是直的？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
They make an arced one, but they're straight-
它们是弧形的，但它们是直的-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
and there's just no deck in there, so it feels a lot lighter and more forgiving on your feet.
而且里面没有甲板，所以你的脚感觉更轻、更宽容。
They actually have some amazing versions of the Woodway that they call the AlterG, where they actually take the gravity away so you can run in a gravity-free environment.
他们实际上有一些令人惊叹的 Woodway 版本，他们称之为 AlterG，它们实际上消除了重力，这样你就可以在无重力的环境中跑步。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That sounds wild.
听起来很疯狂。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Which is crazy, because if you think about injury rehab, we've taken players with lower body injuries, put them on the AlterG, and had them run with only 5% or 10% of their weight.
这太疯狂了，因为如果你考虑伤病康复，我们会让下半身受伤的球员穿上 AlterG，让他们只用 5% 或 10% 的体重跑步。
So, you can un-weight their body, get them into the mechanics of foot on the ground and running and-
所以，你可以减轻他们身体的重量，让他们进入地面和跑步的足部力学，然后——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
transmitting the force through the whole body, but do it in an environment that takes all of their body weight away, and then progress up to now you got 10% of your body weight that you're running on, and then 20% of your body weight that you're running on.
通过整个身体传递力量，但要在一个可以带走所有体重的环境中进行，然后进展到现在，您跑步时所依靠的体重是您体重的 10%，然后是您跑步时体重的 20%。
So, you can actually progress them-
所以，你实际上可以进步它们-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, that's cool
哦，那太酷了
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
to not have to go from non-weight bearing to fully weight bearing.
不必从非负重变为完全负重。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's cool.
太酷了。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
In a cool, athletic way.
以一种酷炫、运动的方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, because swimming's great, but-
是的，因为游泳很棒，但是-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you have to have access to a pool, and-
你必须有权使用游泳池，并且-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I miss swimming.
我想念游泳。
I need to get back to that.
我需要回到这一点。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
I swam as a kid all the time.
我小时候一直游泳。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, likewise.
是的，同样。
Yeah, every kid in my town did soccer and swim team.
是的，我镇上的每个孩子都参加了足球队和游泳队。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Those were kind of the big sports.
这些都是大型运动。
I'm comfy in the water.
我在水里很舒服。
I live near the ocean now, but unfortunately, the ocean hasn't been that clean since the fires.
我现在住在海边，但不幸的是，自从火灾之后，海洋就没那么干净了。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's a bunch of hazards to ocean swimming-
海洋游泳有很多危险
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that I've seen.
我见过的。
A person on our swim got hypothermia once, so I'm like, "I don't know."
我们游泳时有一个人体温过低，所以我说，“我不知道。”
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I think that the cardio piece, the big debate seems to be whether or not if people have a limited amount of time, which most people have a limited amount of time, whether they'd be better off investing in some high-intensity interval training-
是的，我认为有氧运动方面，最大的争论似乎是，如果人们的时间有限（大多数人的时间有限），他们是否最好投资一些高强度间歇训练——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or some so-called zone two-
或一些所谓的二区
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
zone three kind of steady state stuff.
区域三种稳态的东西。
We know that caloric deficit is required for fat loss, but assuming caloric deficit, is there a best cardio for fat loss?
我们知道减脂需要热量不足，但假设热量不足，是否有最好的有氧运动来减脂？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
The one that you're going to do-
你要做的就是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
is going to be the best one for sure.
肯定会是最好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Good answer.
很好的答案。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And I think it's hard to sustain some of the higher zone five cardios for long enough to have a significant cardio-
我认为很难维持一些较高的五区有氧运动足够长的时间来产生显着的有氧运动-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
or a calorie burn effect.
或卡路里燃烧效果。
I did a famous video with Jesse where I had him do burpees, which is one of the most calorically demanding exercises you can do.
我和杰西一起制作了一个著名的视频，我让他做立卧撑跳，这是你能做的热量要求最高的运动之一。
Which is, for anybody that doesn't know the burpee, you basically quickly lower yourself down to the ground, you do a full pushup, you push yourself explosively out of that pushup, you jump up to your feet again and back to a standing position.
也就是说，对于任何不知道波比跳的人来说，你基本上会快速将自己放低到地面，做一个完整的俯卧撑，然后爆发性地推出俯卧撑，然后再次跳起来，然后回到站立位置。
That can burn around, I believe it was 13 to 15 calories per minute if you did them nonstop for a minute.
可以燃烧大约13到15卡路里每分钟，如果你不停地做一分钟。
Well, if you're doing burpees nonstop for a minute, you're likely not doing them nonstop for many more minutes than the first minute, because it's a very demanding exercise.
好吧，如果你不间断地做波比跳一分钟，那么你可能不会比第一分钟不间断地做更多分钟，因为这是一项要求非常高的运动。
So while your heart rate will go soaring right through the roof very quickly, you can apply even intervals to do this, right?
因此，虽然您的心率会很快飙升，但您可以采用均匀的间隔来做到这一点，对吧？
You're still going to start to fatigue because of the anaerobic part of it, too, through the muscles of the chest and the arms getting fatigued.
你仍然会开始感到疲劳，因为其中的无氧部分，通过胸部和手臂的肌肉变得疲劳。
You just can't really do it for more than, let's say, 10 minutes, even in interval format.
即使采用间歇形式，你也不能真正做到超过 10 分钟。
So what are you really burning there?
那么你到底在烧什么？
If you did it even straight through for 10 minutes, 15 calories a minute, you're talking about 150 calories.
如果你直接做 10 分钟，每分钟摄入 15 卡路里，那么你谈论的就是 150 卡路里。
So people who use their cardio for weight loss or caloric deficit are going to do better doing longer distance cardio at lower intensity levels.
因此，使用有氧运动来减肥或热量不足的人在较低强度水平下进行长距离有氧运动会做得更好。
So getting on a bike and riding or jogging or running or even doing laps in interval fashion where it's a jog and a run and a jog and a run.
因此，骑上自行车骑行、慢跑、跑步，甚至以间歇方式跑几圈，即慢跑、跑步、慢跑、跑步。
There's a lot of different ways to do that, but to sustain them for a lot longer periods, 45 minutes to an hour.
有很多不同的方法可以做到这一点，但要维持更长时间，45 分钟到一个小时。
But there again, I'm a big believer that when you're trying to create the deficit, relying on the conditioning, we're not talking about cardiovascular here, we're talking about just creating the deficit, relying on the conditioning is a much more inefficient way to go about this than what actually should be done, which is just to focus on your nutrition.
但我再次坚信，当你试图依靠调节来创造赤字时，我们在这里谈论的不是心血管，我们只是谈论创造赤字，依靠调节是一种比实际应该做的更低效的方法，而实际应该做的只是专注于你的营养。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Because it's just so much more effective to create large deficits or large swaths of deficits from cutting back the crap you're eating right now than it is to try to get it through zone two cardio done for very long periods of time.
因为通过减少你现在吃的垃圾来创造大量的赤字或大范围的赤字比尝试在很长一段时间内完成第二区有氧运动要有效得多。
Again, not to say that that's not beneficial for your cardio and your cardiac conditioning.
再说一次，并不是说这对你的有氧运动和心脏调节没有好处。
That's a separate issue.
这是一个单独的问题。
But when you're trying to create caloric deficits there, I always tell people, first, you got to work on what you're putting in your mouth, because the old saying goes, "You can't outrun a bad diet." And there's just no way to really do that effectively over time.
但当你试图在那里造成热量赤字时，我总是告诉人们，首先，你必须在你放进嘴里的东西上下功夫，因为老话说，“你无法摆脱糟糕的饮食。”随着时间的推移，没有办法真正有效地做到这一点。
So of the two forms, I'd say the zone two steady state longer form is going to do more absolute levels of caloric burn.
因此，在这两种形式中，我想说，第二区稳态较长的形式将实现更多绝对水平的热量燃烧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know if you've ever done this, but I know you're you, and everybody has to pay attention to their caloric needs and nutrition needs, but what does nutrition look like for you on a given day?
我不知道你是否曾经这样做过，但我知道你就是你，每个人都必须注意自己的热量需求和营养需求，但是某一天的营养对你来说是什么样的呢？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So I don't know how many calories I take in on a given day.
所以我不知道我在某一天摄入了多少卡路里。
I've never really counted past when I really first started out, and I think it's an important part of the process is people should count, because it does two things.
当我真正开始的时候，我从来没有真正数过过去，我认为这个过程的一个重要部分是人们应该数数，因为它做了两件事。
Early on, they should count because it gives you awareness.
在早期，他们应该算数，因为它能让你意识到。
You may have no idea how many calories you're actually having until you actually count them.
在您实际计算之前，您可能不知道自己实际摄入了多少卡路里。
You also become aware of many of the things that you are taking for granted that you're just doing almost second nature that is just not healthy.
你也会意识到许多你认为理所当然的事情，你只是在做几乎第二天性的事情，这是不健康的。
You're eating things repetitively that are just not healthy, or drinking things that are just not healthy.
您不断地吃不健康的东西，或者喝不健康的东西。
And when someone asks you to log what you're eating, you become very aware of every calorie you put in your body.
当有人要求你记录你吃的东西时，你会非常清楚你摄入体内的每一卡路里。
So that's part of it.
这就是其中的一部分。
The second thing is there's an education that goes into learning how many calories each food has.
第二件事是有一种教育可以了解每种食物含有多少卡路里。
I can't tell you how many people, they'll think that chicken Parmesan is the same as grilled chicken just because it's chicken, and they're very different in terms of their caloric impact.
我无法告诉你有多少人，他们会认为帕尔玛鸡肉和烤鸡一样，只是因为它是鸡肉，而且它们的热量影响非常不同。
So educating yourself about what those macronutrient profiles look like for whatever food you're having is part of the process, too.
因此，让自己了解您所吃的任何食物的常量营养成分是什么样的也是这个过程的一部分。
Because ultimately, where you want to be able to get to is, can you make equivalent swaps in your head on the fly wherever you are?
因为最终，你想要到达的地方是，无论你身在何处，你能否在头脑中进行等价的交换？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right?
对吗？
That would be nutritional freedom.
这就是营养自由。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
As far as what that day would look like, what I try to do is I try to build my base around protein.
就那一天的情况而言，我试图做的是围绕蛋白质建立我的基础。
I always have.
我一直都有。
The reason for that is it's one of those macronutrients that I know I need to build lean muscle.
原因是它是我知道构建瘦肌肉所需的常量营养素之一。
It's one that I know can provide satiety.
我知道这是一种可以提供饱腹感的食物。
It's one that I know is important to everything I'm trying to pursue and what everyone really should be trying to pursue if they were trying to be healthy.
我知道这对我所追求的一切都很重要，也是每个人如果想保持健康就应该真正努力追求的。
So they should base their meal around that first.
所以他们应该首先以此为基础吃饭。
Start with your protein.
从你的蛋白质开始。
And I use a visual way of doing that where I just say, "Hey, take your plate and divide one third of that plate or that meal," if you're having it in separate plates or separate dishes-
我用一种视觉方式来做到这一点，我只是说，“嘿，拿起你的盘子，把盘子或那顿饭的三分之一分开”，如果你把它放在单独的盘子或单独的盘子里的话——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
"one third of that meal should come from a lean source of protein." And that could be chicken, fish, beef, whatever it is that you prefer.
“这顿饭的三分之一应该来自精益蛋白质。”可以是鸡肉、鱼、牛肉，无论你喜欢什么。
But have that be the one third, and then divide the rest of your plate with carbohydrates, preferably in a 2:1 ratio with fibrous carbohydrates to starchy carbohydrates.
但将其设为三分之一，然后将餐盘的其余部分与碳水化合物分开，纤维状碳水化合物与淀粉类碳水化合物的比例最好为 2:1。
So the fibrous being the green, the vegetables, asparagus, the broccoli, and then the starchy carbohydrates, the rice, potatoes, pasta.
因此，纤维质是绿色蔬菜、芦笋、西兰花，然后是淀粉类碳水化合物、大米、土豆、面食。
Me, personally, I don't believe that I should eliminate my starchy carbohydrates.
就我个人而言，我不认为我应该消除淀粉类碳水化合物。
Again, inherently, I'm an athlete, and I know that that's ...
再说一次，我本质上是一名运动员，我知道那是......
you know, served a very important purpose for me, for energy, for fuel resources, for glycogen, for my muscles, that I don't avoid that.
你知道，这对我来说有一个非常重要的目的，为了能量，为了燃料资源，为了糖原，为了我的肌肉，我不会回避这一点。
Plus, I know that I could never long-term restrict myself from carbohydrates.
另外，我知道我永远无法长期限制自己摄入碳水化合物。
So when I started out, I said, "I have to adopt a plan here that I know I can stick to." If it was taking away pasta and taking away oatmeal and taking away the things, there's just no way that I could sustain that.
因此，当我开始时，我说：“我必须在这里采用一个我知道我可以坚持的计划。”如果是拿走意大利面、拿走燕麦片和拿走其他东西，我根本无法忍受。
So I don't think that people should try to start out on some change to their diet where they're restricting foods they know they're never going to be able to maintain long-term or keep away long-term.
因此，我认为人们不应该尝试开始对饮食进行一些改变，即限制他们知道永远无法长期维持或长期远离的食物。
So that if you can learn to manage them and eat them in a way that's more controlled, because the rest of the stuff on your plate is actually helping to minimize your cravings for that or controlling your portion sizes there, that's the long-term goal, I think.
因此，如果你能学会管理它们并以更受控制的方式吃它们，因为你盘子里的其余东西实际上有助于最大限度地减少你对它们的渴望或控制你的份量，我认为这就是长期目标。
And then overarching over all that, calorically, just because it's a fact of nature, fats are more calorically dense than carbohydrates and proteins, so just be aware of your fats.
然后总体而言，从热量角度来看，脂肪比碳水化合物和蛋白质的热量密度更高，因为这是自然事实，所以请注意您的脂肪。
I know a lot of people who go down the path of healthy eating, and they're putting olive oil on everything and avocado on everything, because they're healthy foods.
我知道很多人都走健康饮食的道路，他们在所有东西上都放橄榄油，在所有东西上都放鳄梨，因为它们是健康食品。
But they're putting so much of it because they want to feel like they're doing the healthy thing.
但他们投入这么多是因为他们想让自己感觉自己在做健康的事情。
But you're also skyrocketing your calories.
但你的卡路里摄入量也在猛增。
So you have to at least be aware where and how you're applying your fats, because calorically they will add up.
所以你至少必须知道你在哪里以及如何使用脂肪，因为它们的热量会增加。
I have nothing against fat.
我对脂肪没有任何抵抗力。
I think everybody should have it.
我想每个人都应该拥有它。
I think it should be part of every meal.
我认为它应该成为每顿饭的一部分。
I'm just saying you need to be aware of your fat content.
我只是说你需要注意你的脂肪含量。
I try to go low sugar as much as I possibly can.
我尝试尽可能地降低糖含量。
I try to avoid processed foods.
我尽量避免加工食品。
I try to avoid blatant sugars, unless it's my birthday and I'm having my carrot cake.
我尽量避免明显的糖分，除非是我的生日并且我正在吃胡萝卜蛋糕。
But for the most part-
但大多数情况下——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's really your only, quote-unquote, "bad food" all year
这真的是你一年中唯一的、不言而喻的“糟糕的食物”
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
that's not my only...
这不是我唯一的...
That's become an urban myth a little bit.
这已经成为一个都市神话了。
Maybe I'll have it twice a year.
也许我一年会吃两次。
But no, I really try not to indulge in those things.
但不，我真的尽力不沉迷于这些事情。
But I'm not missing it.
但我并没有错过它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I really enjoy it when I have it.
当我拥有它时，我真的很享受。
But I'm not depriving myself of it along the way.
但我并没有在此过程中剥夺自己的权利。
If people felt deprived, then have it more often.
如果人们感到被剥夺了，那就更频繁地享受这种感觉。
I could have a piece of carrot cake once a week and probably not have anything happen to my physique.
我可以每周吃一块胡萝卜蛋糕，并且可能不会对我的体质产生任何影响。
So the fact that I don't is just really more out of habit than anything else.
所以我不这么做更多的是出于习惯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
But if you're in a plan where you feel so deprived that you're pulling your hair out and the first chance you get to just jump off your diet and eat all the things that you really were keeping yourself away from, then you're on the wrong plan.
但如果你在一个计划中，你感到自己被剥夺了一切，以至于你抓狂了，而你一有机会就放弃节食，吃掉所有你真正不吃的东西，那么你的计划就错了。
So I think that no matter what it is, whether it be keto, whether it be, I guess you'd call this a bodybuilder-style diet that I eat, or whether-
所以我认为无论它是什么，无论是酮，无论是，我想你会称其为我吃的健美风格饮食，或者是否-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or I call it clean omnivore.
或者我称之为干净的杂食动物。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
There you go.
就这样吧。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I basically eat the same as you-
我基本和你吃的一样~
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
although I suppose I probably am a little high on the fat sometimes-
虽然我想有时我的脂肪含量可能有点高-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
just because, I love nuts and-
只是因为，我喜欢坚果并且-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Parmesan cheese and a little bit of butter and some olive oil and stuff.
帕尔马干酪和一点黄油和一些橄榄油之类的东西。
But-
但是——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Which are all good foods.
哪些都是好食物。
It's just that calorically, there's an impact there.
只是热量方面有影响。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And if you're going to eat them, what I always recommend people do is, again, you could just cut back a little bit on some of the other portion sizes, just to accommodate calorically for what you're doing.
如果你要吃它们，我总是建议人们做的是，你可以稍微减少一些其他部分的大小，只是为了适应你正在做的事情的热量。
But I do think that that concept of the equivalent swaps is big, because if you learn to eat the way I just suggested, and there's no magic behind what I do, I've just been very consistent with it, is that you'll be able to make swaps when you go anywhere.
但我确实认为等价交换的概念很重要，因为如果你学会按照我刚才建议的方式吃饭，而且我所做的事情背后没有什么魔力，我一直非常坚持这一点，那就是当你去任何地方时你都可以进行交换。
What's a protein I can have here today?
今天我可以在这里吃什么蛋白质？
What's the restaurant have?
餐厅有什么？
Oh, they only have pork chops.
哦，他们只有猪排。
Okay, fine, I'll have a pork chop.
好吧，好吧，我要一份猪排。
You're visually just replacing equivalents on the plate.
从视觉上看，您只是更换了盘子上的等效物。
Sometimes it doesn't always work.
有时它并不总是有效。
I just did a video where I talked about a steak and a grilled chicken breast are potentially the same protein in terms of their protein content, but they're not the same calorically because the steak has a lot more fat than the chicken breast does.
我刚刚做了一个视频，我谈到牛排和烤鸡胸肉的蛋白质含量可能是相同的蛋白质，但它们的热量并不相同，因为牛排比鸡胸肉含有更多的脂肪。
So you might have a smaller steak to make that equivalent swap out.
因此，您可能需要一块较小的牛排来进行同等的交换。
But that's only going to come through your understanding and knowledge of the foods and what they contain, so that early phase of learning what they have is important there.
但这只能通过您对食物及其所含成分的理解和了解来实现，因此早期阶段了解它们所含成分非常重要。
But ultimately, nutritional freedom comes from the ability to be consistent with what you do.
但最终，营养自由来自于与你所做的事情保持一致的能力。
I talk a lot about the fact that we can get to the gym, we can train for an hour.
我说了很多关于我们可以去健身房，我们可以训练一个小时的事实。
It's not easy for people, especially to do it at a high enough intensity level, but we can train for an hour, go home, and feel like, "I did my work today.
这对人们来说并不容易，尤其是在足够高的强度水平下做到这一点，但我们可以训练一个小时，回家后感觉，“我今天完成了我的工作。
I feel good.
我感觉很好。
I did what I was supposed to do."
我做了我应该做的事。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Great.
太棒了。
Your nutritional job just started.
你的营养工作才刚刚开始。
You now have to figure out, how do I navigate the next 23 hours, whether I'm asleep or I'm awake, but how am I going to navigate the next 23 hours, because that's what nutrition is.
你现在必须弄清楚，我如何度过接下来的 23 小时，无论我是睡着还是醒着，但我将如何度过接下来的 23 小时，因为这就是营养。
That challenge is infinitely harder, and the reason why a lot of people struggle with their weight is because they have to figure out how to get that right and do that in a repeatable way day in, day out, day in and day out.
这一挑战无限困难，许多人之所以与体重作斗争，是因为他们必须弄清楚如何做到正确，并日复一日地以可重复的方式做到这一点。
And I've been doing what I've been doing here now with my nutrition approach for 30 years.
30 年来，我一直坚持我的营养方法。
30 years.
30年。
So when people ask me, "Is it hard?" For me, it's not hard at all.
所以当人们问我“这很难吗？”对我来说，一点也不难。
But it wasn't super easy in the beginning.
但一开始并不是那么容易。
There's a process to go through to get it there, and I was willing to go slowly, but also not sacrifice the things that I really knew I wouldn't be able to live without.
要实现这一目标需要经历一个过程，我愿意慢慢来，但也不会牺牲那些我真正知道没有我就无法生存的东西。
So therefore, I can live with it forever.
因此，我可以永远忍受它。
And I think people make way too aggressive changes when it comes to nutrition.
我认为人们在营养方面做出了过于激进的改变。
Basically, you're not just changing your diet, you're changing your habits, and you're changing your lifestyle.
基本上，你不只是改变你的饮食，你正在改变你的习惯，你正在改变你的生活方式。
So when you go and you start making these radical changes to your nutrition plan because you're on a diet, it does not work.
因此，当你因为节食而开始对你的营养计划进行彻底改变时，这是行不通的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Listen, what you described, what I'll just call clean omnivore, I think is just an awesome way to approach nutrition for a couple of reasons.
听着，你所描述的，我称之为干净的杂食动物，我认为这是一种很棒的获取营养的方法，原因有几个。
One, it works.
一，它有效。
Like you said, it's flexible.
正如你所说，它很灵活。
Even with travel, you can always make some adjustment toward that.
即使在旅行时，您也可以随时对此做出一些调整。
It handles the protein needs thing pretty much on its own.
它几乎可以自行处理蛋白质需求。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You have to make sure you eat enough of those meals and enough protein.
您必须确保吃足够的这些食物和足够的蛋白质。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But as you were saying it, I realized that if they adopt this mindset that you have for nutrition, it gets them out and away from the marketing-based draw of nutrition.
但正如你所说，我意识到，如果他们采用你对营养的这种心态，就能让他们摆脱基于营销的营养吸引。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because people say, like, "Oh, protein bar," or-
因为人们会说，“哦，蛋白质棒”，或者——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right
右
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
"High protein yogurt." And listen, there's some great yogurts.
“高蛋白酸奶。”听着，有一些很棒的酸奶。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love Bulgarian yogurt.
我喜欢保加利亚酸奶。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Greek yogurt's great.
希腊酸奶很棒。
Bulgarian yogurt.
保加利亚酸奶。
No disrespect to the Greeks.
没有对希腊人的不尊重。
Love Greek food- ...
喜欢希腊菜-...
by the way, too.
顺便说一句，也是。
But Bulgarian yogurt-
但是保加利亚酸奶-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Bulgarian's the better stuff
保加利亚语更好
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is so good.
太好了。
Full-fat Bulgarian yogurt or low-fat Bulgarian, amazing.
全脂保加利亚酸奶或低脂保加利亚酸奶，太棒了。
And Yeah.
是的。
And the Bulgarians are known for their strength in many ways.
保加利亚人在很多方面都以其力量而闻名。
But you get outside the marketing pull and you start thinking about food for its macronutrient content-
但你摆脱了营销的影响，你开始考虑食物的常量营养素含量——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and its micronutrient content and quality as opposed to the packaging-based stuff.
及其微量营养素含量和质量，而不是基于包装的东西。
Because even the non-processed or non-highly processed foods, mostly we're reaching for them because of what's on the label.
因为即使是未经加工或未经高度加工的食品，我们大多数情况下也会因为标签上的内容而购买它们。
Like the colors, the words, and these kinds.
比如颜色、文字等等。
And what you're describing is completely different.
而且你所描述的情况完全不同。
It's getting to the actual food.
这是真正的食物。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think that's a very important, not so subtle distinction, and once people make that switch, they're really in the driver's seat.
我认为这是一个非常重要的、不那么微妙的区别，一旦人们做出了这种转变，他们就真正掌握了主导权。
It's not like you're like, "Have to go prepare every meal," this kind of thing.
这不像你说的“必须去准备每顿饭”之类的事情。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Well, yeah.
嗯，是的。
And again, even with some of the push towards higher protein foods now, again, the packaging is bragging about the protein content, but they've also increased the sugar or they've increased the fat, and it's like all you've made is a higher protein.
再说一遍，即使现在有些人提倡高蛋白食品，但包装上仍然吹嘘蛋白质含量，但它们也增加了糖分或增加了脂肪，就好像你所做的只是更高的蛋白质。
Even Snickers has a high protein bar.
甚至士力架也含有高蛋白棒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Are you serious?
你是认真的吗？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Either it's Snickers or Milky Way, they have a high protein bar.
无论是士力架还是银河，它们都有高蛋白棒。
It's like, okay, this is insanity.
就像，好吧，这太疯狂了。
So, I mean-
所以，我的意思是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Show me the C-suite of the Snickers.
让我看看士力架的最高管理层。
I'm going to get in trouble for this, but whatever.
我会因此而陷入麻烦，但无论如何。
I want to see how fit these people actually look.
我想看看这些人实际上看起来有多合适。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah, right.
是的，对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And if they're eating that stuff.
如果他们吃那些东西。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's right.
没错。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like something tells me they're not.
好像有什么东西告诉我他们不是。
Yeah.
是的。
Thank you again for being a voice of reason in the nutrition space.
再次感谢您在营养领域发出理性的声音。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah, and I'm not a nutritionist.
是的，我不是营养师。
And people are quick to remind me of that whenever I speak of nutrition.
每当我谈到营养时，人们很快就会提醒我这一点。
I'm only speaking from my experience, both with myself and anybody I've ever advised on how to do that.
我只是根据我的经验，包括我自己和我曾经建议过的人来谈谈如何做到这一点。
It works, it's sensible, and it's something that could be sustained.
它有效，合理，而且可以持续。
So for me, that's what's most important with nutrition.
所以对我来说，这就是营养最重要的。
And again, I don't fixate on any one particular way.
再说一遍，我并不专注于任何一种特定的方式。
If doing keto works for you, great.
如果生酮对你有用，那就太好了。
As long as you can sustain your eating that way, great, because all we're trying to do is manage our weight long term and not sacrifice other elements of our health in the process.
只要您能坚持这种饮食方式，那就太好了，因为我们要做的就是长期控制体重，而不是在此过程中牺牲健康的其他要素。
So if it works for you, cool.
所以如果它对你有用，那就太好了。
But this is what has worked for me.
但这对我有用。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm starting to see more content out there about foot strength.
我开始看到更多关于脚部力量的内容。
You've mentioned you have flat feet.
你提到过你有扁平足。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I had some foot injuries from skateboarding years ago.
几年前，我因玩滑板而受了一些脚伤。
Broke my left foot twice.
我的左脚两次骨折。
Some "snapped arches." It's not really a thing, but...
一些“折断的拱门”。这其实并不是什么事情，但是……
And have started to think about foot health and foot training and stability, and so on the one hand, it seems kind of silly.
并开始考虑足部健康、足部训练和稳定性等等，这似乎有点愚蠢。
It's like, oh, really?
就像，哦，真的吗？
We're going to start training our feet?
我们要开始练脚了吗？
But on the other hand, our feet are always in contact with at least our shoes, if not the ground.
但另一方面，我们的脚即使不接触地面，至少也总是与鞋子接触。
So what are your thoughts on this notion of flat feet, foot strength, and how it plays into stability and performance, and just overall ability in life?
那么，您对扁平足、足部力量的概念以及它如何影响稳定性和表现以及生活中的整体能力有何看法？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah, it's actually something I wish I had done more of at an early age.
是的，这实际上是我希望自己在很小的时候就多做一些事情。
One of the easiest ways to test this is to, especially for someone like me who has...
测试这一点的最简单方法之一是，特别是对于像我这样的人来说......
I have flippers for feet.
我有脚蹼。
Flat out, just flippers.
平平无奇，只是脚蹼。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is that genetic or sports-based?
这是遗传因素还是运动因素？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I think it is partially genetic.
我认为这部分是遗传的。
My mom had pretty flat feet, and then I also think that it was years of doing things without addressing that.
我妈妈的脚很扁平，我也认为多年来一直在做事情而没有解决这个问题。
So I was-
所以我是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
as I started to lift weights and applying a lot of external force and load onto those feet that were not able to support that, it just got worse and worse.
当我开始举重并向那些无法支撑的脚施加大量外力和负荷时，情况变得越来越糟。
They weren't always as bad as they got to, but I wish I had done more for it at an early age, because even now, if I were to go back and try to train the intrinsic foot muscles more, it's just not going to reverse the damage that I've done in the knee to this point.
它们并不总是那么糟糕，但我希望我在很小的时候就做了更多的事情，因为即使是现在，如果我回去尝试更多地训练脚部的内在肌肉，这也无法扭转我迄今为止对膝盖造成的损伤。
So I'm less motivated to try to do it, because I've also figured out how to manage with the flat feet now to decrease the impacts of it.
所以我不太愿意尝试这样做，因为我现在也想出了如何应对扁平足以减少其影响。
So I'm not so motivated to go jump in now and spend extra time on something that may not have a huge impact for me.
所以我现在并没有动力去投入额外的时间在一些可能不会对我产生巨大影响的事情上。
But for someone who's just starting to deal with flat feet and the weakness in their feet, I would definitely jump in and do something.
但对于刚刚开始处理扁平足和足部无力的人来说，我肯定会介入并做点什么。
And the easiest test is simply to put a towel on the floor, put your foot on it barefoot, try to scrunch up the towel with your feet, and if you start to rapidly cramp up in those foot muscles of yours, and again, it goes back to what we talked about before in the low back.
最简单的测试就是在地板上放一条毛巾，赤脚踩在上面，尝试用脚把毛巾揉成一团，如果你的脚部肌肉开始迅速抽筋，那么，这又回到了我们之前讨论过的腰部问题。
The cramps are coming from a lack of strength.
抽筋是由于缺乏力量造成的。
They're trying to provide support in an area that doesn't have it.
他们正试图在没有支持的地区提供支持。
So if you don't have intrinsic support or arch strength, then you're trying to ask the foot to do too much of what it can't.
因此，如果你没有内在支撑或足弓力量，那么你就是在试图让脚做太多它不能做的事情。
Even a simple scrunching or activation of those muscles to scrunch the towel together is too much for you to handle, kind of like the weak neck on a crunch.
即使是简单的挤压或激活这些肌肉来将毛巾挤压在一起，对你来说也太难处理了，有点像仰卧起坐时脖子变弱一样。
You have very weak feet, and you would benefit from doing a lot of those activities that help to do that.
你的脚非常虚弱，做很多有助于做到这一点的活动会让你受益匪浅。
Some people recommend running in sand.
有些人建议在沙子里跑步。
Some people recommend using these towel drills.
有些人建议使用这些毛巾钻。
Even just balancing barefoot and doing single leg balance drills barefoot are going to not just cause ankle strength improvements, but intrinsic foot strength improvements.
即使只是赤脚平衡和赤脚进行单腿平衡训练，不仅会提高脚踝力量，还会提高内在的足部力量。
They're all good things to do because you can improve...
这些都是值得去做的好事情，因为你可以改进......
They're muscles.
他们是肌肉。
They are literally muscles, too.
它们实际上也是肌肉。
You can improve the muscular strength of your feet.
您可以提高脚部的肌肉力量。
And when you do, I think you can start to restore some of the natural arch that you've lost to the foot.
当你这样做时，我认为你可以开始恢复脚部失去的一些自然足弓。
If it's because of tendinous dysfunction that's there or inherited, as you said, a genetic predisposition to this, you may not be able to have the arch of somebody who has naturally better arches, but you could certainly create enough of an arch where all the arch is really doing is it's just changing the position of your ankle joint itself.
如果是因为肌腱功能障碍，或者是遗传性的，正如你所说的，有遗传倾向，你可能无法拥有天生具有更好足弓的人的足弓，但你肯定可以创造出足够的足弓，而足弓真正做的只是改变你的踝关节本身的位置。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right?
对吗？
So of how the tibia sits on your ankle.
那么胫骨是如何固定在脚踝上的呢？
If the foot collapses, the tibia is now torqued, essentially, in its relationship to the foot.
如果足部塌陷，胫骨现在基本上会在与足部的关系中发生扭转。
And so now every time you step, whatever forces are being incurred on the ground are being sent up through the ankle, into the knee, into the hip, into the back.
因此，现在每次你迈步时，地面上产生的任何力都会通过脚踝向上传送到膝盖、臀部和背部。
So you're just trying to maintain a better, more natural alignment between the tibia and the foot itself.
所以你只是想在胫骨和脚本身之间保持更好、更自然的对齐。
So that's what happens with the weakness of the foot, is you're basically allowing it to collapse too far to start to create that torque in its relationship to the tibia.
这就是脚部无力时发生的情况，基本上是让它塌陷得太远，以至于无法在与胫骨的关系中产生扭矩。
So if you can start to increase the strength of those muscles resting, they can basically maintain a higher arch or a more natural position that's more aligned with the tibia, and that's where the benefits come from.
因此，如果您可以开始增加休息时肌肉的力量，它们基本上可以保持更高的足弓或更自然的位置，与胫骨更对齐，这就是好处的来源。
Something I knew nothing about back in my 20s.
我20多岁的时候对此一无所知。
Nothing.
没有什么。
I didn't think at all to do that.
我根本没想过要这么做。
All I did was go put an orthotic in Which basically put me in a better position for that.
我所做的就是戴上矫形器，这基本上让我处于一个更好的位置。
It lifts the foot up and it puts me in a better alignment to try to start decreasing some of the ongoing damage I was doing to my knees by being in that torqued position, but did nothing to actually fix the problem itself.
它把脚抬起来，让我处于更好的对齐状态，试图开始减少由于处于那个扭转位置而对膝盖造成的一些持续伤害，但并没有真正解决问题本身。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it's like wearing braces.
是的，就像戴牙套一样。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Exactly.
正是如此。
So-
所以——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not mouth braces, but like a knee brace.
不是嘴托，而是像护膝一样。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Well, I was going to say, right.
嗯，我想说的是，对吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Like a mouth brace actually-
实际上就像一个嘴套——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, right
是的，对
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
would actually create some long-term change, but this is doing nothing but...
实际上会带来一些长期的改变，但这只是……
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like limb brace.
就像肢体支架一样。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is something I've been thinking about and reading up about a lot, but you might find interesting and, I don't know, maybe since you're so much more versed and formally trained in strength training and these offsetting these unhealthy compensations.
这是我一直在思考和阅读的很多内容，但你可能会觉得有趣，而且我不知道，也许是因为你在力量训练方面更加精通和正式训练，并且这些可以抵消这些不健康的补偿。
Been spending a lot of time looking at how the human body degenerates as it gets older.
花了很多时间研究人体随着年龄的增长是如何退化的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I'm trained as a developmental neurobiologist, and what you learn is that development, it doesn't just stop at like puberty or something, or even when someone turns 25.
因为我接受的是发育神经生物学家的培训，而你学到的是发育，它不会仅仅在青春期或其他什么时候停止，甚至在某人年满 25 岁时停止。
Our whole life is a developmental arc.
我们的一生是一个发展的弧线。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it really is an arc, right?
它确实是一个弧线，对吗？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
It is.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And people who can offset that last third of the arc have remarkably better lives in terms of their unassisted living, their ability to be there for others, et cetera, cognitively and physically.
那些能够抵消最后三分之一弧线的人，在他们的独立生活、为他人服务的能力等方面，无论是在认知上还是身体上，都拥有更好的生活。
To make a long story short, it really appears that both at the level of the spinal cord and brain, but also at the level of the muscles, that the muscles that are furthest away from the midline degenerate first.
长话短说，无论是在脊髓和大脑层面，还是在肌肉层面，距离中线最远的肌肉确实首先退化。
And it's interesting, today we've been talking about neck.
有趣的是，今天我们一直在谈论颈部。
Yesterday, we did forearm training.
昨天，我们进行了前臂训练。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We'll provide a link to that.
我们将提供一个链接。
Grip strength goes, calf strength goes-
握力消失，小腿力量消失——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
foot strength goes.
脚力去。
And this could be taken down to the motor neuron level, the spinal cord level, molecular level.
这可以追溯到运动神经元水平、脊髓水平、分子水平。
There are data starting to emerge.
有数据开始出现。
So I'm of the mind that many of the things that you've been teaching and that we've been talking about today of working these distal muscles, especially as one gets older, but ideally one's entire life, are really going to be a big piece of the longevity game.
所以我认为，您一直在教授的以及我们今天一直在谈论的许多关于锻炼远端肌肉的事情，尤其是随着年龄的增长，但理想情况下是一个人的一生，确实将成为长寿游戏的重要组成部分。
I really am.
我确实是。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Longevity ultimately is basically, in my eyes, is being able to maintain function as you age.
在我看来，长寿基本上就是随着年龄的增长能够保持功能。
Because again, it's not the number of years, but the quality of the years.
因为同样，重要的不是岁月的数量，而是岁月的质量。
So all muscles in your body serve a function.
所以你身体里的所有肌肉都有其功能。
They're all there for a reason.
他们的存在都是有原因的。
Almost, I think there's one or two that were potentially, they don't actually even have a function.
几乎，我认为有一两个是可能的，它们实际上甚至没有功能。
I forget which ones they are, but for the most part, they're there to serve a purpose.
我忘记了它们是什么，但在大多数情况下，它们的存在是有目的的。
The idea that we don't train all of them in some way is a little bit crazy because they're there.
我们不以某种方式训练所有人的想法有点疯狂，因为他们就在那里。
They need to be able to function for the lifetime of however long you're going to be here.
无论你在这里待多久，它们都需要能够终生发挥作用。
Finding ways to do it where we don't have to do hundreds of different exercises to address all of these muscles is the ultimate goal, so we can become more efficient with our efforts and we're not skipping them.
最终目标是找到方法，让我们不必进行数百种不同的练习来锻炼所有这些肌肉，这样我们的努力就可以变得更有效率，而且我们不会跳过它们。
But the idea that they're not necessary or they don't need to be maintained or maximized over a lifetime doesn't make sense to me either, right?
但是，“它们不是必需的，或者不需要在一生中维护或最大化”的想法对我来说也没有意义，对吗？
So I think we need to be able to just find ways that we can work them into what we're already doing.
所以我认为我们需要找到方法将它们应用到我们已经在做的事情中。
And again, I do think that we have different rates of decay, too.
再说一次，我确实认为我们也有不同的衰变率。
You versus me versus someone else.
你对我对别人。
So that's where I really believe people need to adopt these individualized plans.
因此，我确实认为人们需要采用这些个性化计划。
We all do, let's say, the basic strength training, but then your specialized plan that addresses your accelerated weaknesses is this group of exercises.
比方说，我们都做基本的力量训练，但是解决你加速弱点的专门计划就是这组练习。
And my specific plan to address my accelerated weaknesses is this specific exercise plan.
而我解决加速弱点的具体计划就是这个具体的锻炼计划。
But they're all there to be worked on, and they're all there to be maintained.
但它们都需要处理，都需要维护。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Function.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 Function。
Function provides over 160 advanced lab tests to give you a clear snapshot of your bodily health.
功能提供超过 160 项高级实验室测试，让您清晰了解自己的身体健康状况。
This snapshot gives you insights into your heart health, your hormone health, autoimmune function, nutrient levels, and much more.
通过此快照，您可以深入了解心脏健康状况、激素健康状况、自身免疫功能、营养水平等。
They've also recently added access to advanced MRI and CT scans.
他们最近还增加了先进的 MRI 和 CT 扫描的访问权限。
Function not only provides testing of over 160 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, it also analyzes these results and provides recommendations for improving your health from top doctors.
Function 不仅提供对您身心健康至关重要的 160 多种生物标记物的测试，还分析这些结果并提供顶级医生改善您健康的建议。
For example, in a recent test with Function, I learned that some of my blood lipids were slightly out of range.
例如，在最近的一次 Function 测试中，我发现我的一些血脂稍微超出了范围。
As a result, I decided to start supplementing with nattokinase, which can naturally help reduce LDL cholesterol, and it did.
因此，我决定开始补充纳豆激酶，它自然可以帮助降低低密度脂蛋白胆固醇，而且确实如此。
In a follow-up test, I could confirm that this strategy worked.
在后续测试中，我可以确认这个策略是有效的。
My blood lipids are now back exactly where I want them.
我的血脂现在完全回到了我想要的水平。
Comprehensive lab testing of the sort that Function offers is just so important for health.
Function 提供的全面实验室测试对于健康非常重要。
I mean, how else are you going to know what's going on under the hood?
我的意思是，你还怎么知道幕后发生了什么？
And while I've been doing blood work for years, it used to be time-consuming, complicated, and expensive.
虽然我从事血液检查已有多年，但它过去非常耗时、复杂且昂贵。
In fact, I used to spend thousands of dollars per year trying to get this kind of data, and the data, frankly, were not all that good.
事实上，我曾经每年花费数千美元试图获得此类数据，但坦率地说，这些数据并不那么好。
But now with Function, it's extremely easy and affordable.
但现在有了 Function，它变得非常简单且经济实惠。
A Function membership is only a dollar a day, $365 a year.
Function 会员每天仅需 1 美元，每年 365 美元。
And if you think about the information it provides and the health challenges it helps you avoid and the proactive things that it can do for you to enhance your health, I truly look at it as a savings.
如果您考虑一下它提供的信息、它可以帮助您避免的健康挑战以及它可以为您增强健康所做的积极主动的事情，我确实将其视为一种节省。
To learn more, visit functionhealth.com/huberman and use the code Huberman for a $50 credit towards your membership.
要了解更多信息，请访问 functionhealth.com/huberman 并使用代码 Huberman 获得 50 美元的会员积分。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman.
同样，这是 functionhealth.com/huberman。
There are millions of hours of content on the internet about body part splits and ways to train.
互联网上有数百万小时有关身体部位分割和训练方法的内容。
So I know you've covered essentially all of them, but maybe we could do a pseudo yes/no-
所以我知道你基本上已经涵盖了所有这些，但也许我们可以做一个伪是/否-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Q&A type thing for a moment about body type splits and rests and training to failure, et cetera.
关于体型分割、休息和训练至力竭等问题的问答类型。
And then I have a very specific question about training splits that relates to real life and how to incorporate a resistance training program into real life in a way that's truly sustainable.
然后我有一个非常具体的问题，涉及与现实生活相关的训练分叉，以及如何以真正可持续的方式将阻力训练计划融入现实生活。
Okay, so first things first, how many warm-up sets per exercise typically?
好的，那么首先，每次练习通常需要多少组热身组？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Depending upon what you're doing, and we're right off into the nuance of all this.
根据您在做什么，我们马上就会了解这一切的细微差别。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Because the nuance is really everything here.
因为细微差别确实是这里的一切。
When we talk about muscle splits, and there's so many factors that contribute to this, but let's say you're doing, just for sake of argument, you're doing a pull workout.
当我们谈论肌肉分裂时，有很多因素会导致这种情况，但为了便于争论，我们假设你正在做拉力训练。
If I'm doing pull would be, let's say, back and biceps and- Even rear delts if we want to put them on the same day.
如果我做拉力训练，比如说，背部和二头肌，甚至三角肌后束，如果我们想把它们放在同一天的话。
So, you would warm up your bigger muscle group first.
所以，你首先要热身你的大肌肉群。
So, let's say you start with back, and you warm up the first exercise you're doing there.
因此，假设您从背部开始，并为在那里进行的第一个练习进行热身。
You could do a general body warm-up like we did a little warm-up for our arm workout yesterday, which is actually a shoulder warm-up.
你可以做一般的身体热身，就像我们昨天为手臂锻炼做的一点热身一样，这实际上是肩部热身。
We talk about in that video why.
我们在视频中讨论了原因。
But you do a little general warm-up first, and then you start the first exercise with lighter weights so you can warm up.
但你首先要做一些一般性的热身，然后用较轻的重量开始第一个练习，这样你就可以热身了。
I'm doing two or three warm-up sets and I'm done.
我做了两到三组热身，就完成了。
As long as I feel like I've sufficiently warmed up that movement pattern that I'm going to do before I start to load it, as long as I feel like the joints, I've got all the creaks out, and I feel like I've done enough of an assessment of how everything feels for that day, then I'm ready to go.
只要我觉得在开始加载之前我已经充分热身了我要做的运动模式，只要我感觉关节，我已经发出了所有的吱吱声，并且我觉得我已经对那天的一切感觉做了足够的评估，那么我就准备好了。
People spend way too much time warming up to work out.
人们花费太多的时间来热身锻炼。
You just get yourself ready, and what happens is the workout itself becomes the rest of the warm-up you need for the subsequent exercises.
你只要做好准备，接下来的练习就变成了你后续练习所需的热身活动。
Once you get through that first exercise, you're usually ready to go.
一旦完成第一个练习，您通常就可以开始了。
And when we're talking about then shifting focus to let's say even the biceps, my biceps have been working every one of my pulling repetitions, whether I was rowing or doing pull-downs in some way.
当我们谈论然后将焦点转移到二头肌时，我的二头肌在我的每一次拉力重复中都得到了锻炼，无论是划船还是以某种方式做下拉。
So, there's no more warm-up after that.
所以，之后就不再需要热身了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Train work sets to failure or stop with so-called reps in reserve?
训练工作会失败或因所谓的后备代表而停止吗？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Oh, this is a great one for me.
哦，这对我来说是一件很棒的事情。
I mean, I'm failure.
我的意思是，我很失败。
I understand the science shows that they can get close, but it's also very heavily dependent upon, meaning failure or not failure, very heavily dependent upon volume.
我知道科学表明它们可以接近，但它也非常依赖于，意味着失败与否，非常依赖于数量。
So, when you're looking to do a workout that is going to have...
所以，当你想要进行一项锻炼时......
You can do it in 30 to 45 minutes, have a high impact in terms of its ability to stimulate growth.
您可以在 30 到 45 分钟内完成，在刺激生长的能力方面具有很大的影响。
If you're with me, you're going to train to failure.
如果你和我在一起，你就会训练到失败。
And I like objectively training to failure because I know I got to failure.
我喜欢客观地训练到失败，因为我知道我会失败。
I'm not talking about getting to a point where I don't recognize the exercise I'm doing, where I'm compromising the quality of the exercise I'm doing.
我并不是说要达到我不认识自己正在做的锻炼的地步，或者我会损害我正在做的锻炼的质量。
I'm not talking about doing it on the more compound or complicated exercises that do require synchronized movement for multiple muscle groups, because like let's say a row, a heavy row, could start to get dangerous if you're losing body position because of fatigue.
我并不是在谈论更复合或更复杂的练习，这些练习确实需要多个肌肉群同步运动，因为如果你因为疲劳而失去身体位置，比如划船，大重量的划船可能会开始变得危险。
So, we're doing it on the exercises that are the hypertrophy-based exercises, a little bit more focused on one single muscle group, a little bit more isolated in nature.
因此，我们所做的练习是基于肥大的练习，更专注于单个肌肉群，本质上更孤立。
So, for instance, a single-arm row versus a bent-over barbell row.
例如，单臂划船与弯腰杠铃划船。
That'd be a good difference between the two.
这将是两者之间的一个很好的区别。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, you won't take the bent-over barbell row to failure necessarily?
那么，弯腰杠铃划船不一定会失败吗？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
No. I wouldn't recommend taking that all the way till failure.
不，我不建议一直这样做直到失败。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But you'll get close.
但你会接近的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I'll get close, yeah.
我会靠近，是的。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
For me, it's always going to be close.
对我来说，它总是很接近。
My criteria there would be form breakdown.
我的标准是形式崩溃。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So, as soon as my form started to break down, I might have had another two reps left or three reps left, but that's it for that on the barbell row.
所以，一旦我的状态开始崩溃，我可能还剩下两次或三次，但杠铃划船就这样了。
Whereas if I'm doing a...
而如果我正在做一个...
Here's a better example.
这是一个更好的例子。
If I'm doing a one-arm cable pull-down for my lats, which I love that exercise, it gets a really good stretch in the lats to come down.
如果我正在为我的背阔肌做单臂绳索下拉（我喜欢这项练习），那么在下降时背阔肌会得到很好的伸展。
It could look a little ugly at the end where I'm just doing a couple partial repetitions or something just to add a little bit more stimulus-
最后看起来可能有点难看，我只是做了一些部分重复或只是为了增加一点刺激-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
that with no extra risk to my body from doing it.
这样做不会给我的身体带来额外的风险。
So, there's the difference between them.
所以，他们之间是有区别的。
But I'm always advising that you're training towards the high end.
但我总是建议你朝着高端方向进行训练。
Unless you're training for strength, which is a whole different game.
除非你正在训练力量，这是一个完全不同的游戏。
That's a whole different set of rules.
这是一套完全不同的规则。
It's a whole different stimulus that you're trying to build there.
这是你试图在那里建立的完全不同的刺激。
That is high loads that you're trying to manage efficiently, not with inefficiency to try to force muscle growth.
这是你试图有效管理的高负荷，而不是低效地试图迫使肌肉生长。
So, that's a whole different ball of wax, and you're really trying to stay away from true failure there.
所以，这是一个完全不同的蜡球，你真的在努力远离真正的失败。
It's actually not in the way you would actually build maximal strength, because maximal strength relies on clean, efficient, well-performed repetitions done cumulatively over time.
实际上，这并不是你真正建立最大力量的方式，因为最大力量依赖于随着时间的推移累积完成的干净、高效、表现良好的重复。
That's how we get neurologically stronger.
这就是我们如何在神经上变得更强大。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And a lot more volume.
而且体积更大。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And a lot more volume, right.
而且音量更大，对吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So, that's a different game here.
所以，这是一个不同的游戏。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, for squats and deadlifts, are you taking them to failure?
那么，对于深蹲和硬拉，你是否会尝试到力竭呢？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
No. Same concept as the row.
不，与行的概念相同。
Those big presses like that, I'm not going to...
像那样的大压力，我不会...
Or leg movements, I'm not doing true failure on those.
或者腿部动作，我并没有在这些动作上做真正的失败。
I could do other exercises and different variations.
我可以做其他练习和不同的变化。
I could do a Bulgarian split squat to failure.
我可以做保加利亚分腿深蹲到力竭。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right?
对吗？
Because I love that to failure, because when I go down and I can't go up anymore, I just simply drop the weights right to the floor right next to me.
因为我喜欢失败，因为当我倒下而我无法再上升时，我只是简单地把重物扔到我旁边的地板上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So, there's different ways to still do squatting patterns without having to put a bar on my back with the heaviest of loads that I can handle and do that.
因此，有不同的方法仍然可以进行深蹲模式，而不必在我的背上放一个杠铃，承受我可以处理的最重的负荷并做到这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then, total volume, I guess if you're going close to failure or failure, per muscle group, and I'm not calling legs a muscle group, I'm calling quads a muscle group-
然后，总体积，我想如果你接近失败或失败，每个肌肉群，我不称腿为肌肉群，我称股四头肌为肌肉群 -
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
hamstrings a muscle group-
腿筋是一个肌肉群——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
glutes a muscle group.
臀大肌群。
Work set ranges per workout?
每次锻炼的工作设定范围？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Per workout, again, probably somewhere between six to 10 on some of the smaller muscle groups like the biceps and a little bit more, maybe 10 to 12, 10 to 15 at most if you're looking at some of the larger muscle groups, like the quads, like the lats.
再次强调，对于一些较小的肌肉群（如二头肌），每次锻炼可能在 6 到 10 次之间；如果您关注一些较大的肌肉群（如股四头肌、背阔肌），则可能会多一点，可能是 10 到 12 个，最多 10 到 15 个。
I would go a little bit more.
我会多走一点。
So, that breaks down into around, if you're doing roughly three sets an exercise, you're looking at three to four exercises to get to those larger muscle groups.
所以，这可以分解为，如果你大约做三组练习，你就会考虑三到四次练习来锻炼那些更大的肌肉群。
And for the biceps, you can get away with doing two exercises or three exercises for a total of around seven or eight sets.
对于二头肌，你可以做两次或三次练习，总共大约七到八组。
When we do our workout, what we do to expose ourselves to more exercises, because we can influence the biceps in different ways, a little bit more long head stretch, short head focus, heavier load, more concentration work, you could do that just by doing less sets of the exercise.
当我们进行锻炼时，我们所做的就是让自己进行更多的锻炼，因为我们可以通过不同的方式影响二头肌，稍微长一点的头部伸展，短一点的头部集中，更重的负荷，更多的集中注意力，你可以通过做更少的练习来做到这一点。
And again, when you're properly warmed up, and if you have enough experience training, there is nothing magic about doing three, right?
再说一次，当你进行了适当的热身，并且如果你有足够的训练经验，那么做三件事并没有什么神奇的，对吧？
We all think three, but you could do two and then move on to a different exercise that stimulates the biceps differently.
我们都认为三个，但你可以做两个，然后继续进行不同的练习，以不同的方式刺激二头肌。
That's a better total effect than maintaining that you have to do three of this and three of this and three of this, and then therefore limiting yourself to the three exercises.
这比坚持说你必须做三个这个、三个这个、三个这个，然后限制自己只做这三个练习要好得多。
I could do four or five exercises that give all complementary functions to the biceps, do two of them each, and get a better workout.
我可以做四到五次练习，为二头肌提供所有补充功能，每次做两次，就能得到更好的锻炼。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I like a couple of warm-ups on the first exercise- Two work sets.
我喜欢在第一个练习中进行一些热身——两个动作组。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Move to something else.
转移到其他事情上。
Two work sets.
两个工作集。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's what I tend to do.
这就是我倾向于做的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And a few regular listeners of this podcast are probably thinking, "Well, how does this square with the conversation with Dorian, where it was really like one, maybe-
这个播客的一些常客可能会想，“好吧，这与与多里安的对话有什么关系，那真的很像，也许——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm
毫米
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
two work sets per exercise?" He's always insisting on taking the work sets to failure and often beyond failure-
每个练习有两个练习组？”他总是坚持让工作集走向失败，并且常常超越失败——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
with forced reps.
强迫次数。
So when you start looking at it as like you were saying, like with squats and deadlifts or rows, you're not going completely to failure, and I'm not going to say they're equivalent, but there is some offset there, right?
所以当你开始像你说的那样看待它时，比如深蹲、硬拉或划船，你不会完全失败，我不会说它们是等价的，但那里有一些抵消，对吧？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's either taking one, maybe two sets to complete failure with forced reps per exercise and then another exercise.
要么需要一组，也许两组，每次练习强制重复几次才能完全力竭，然后再进行另一次练习。
It wasn't like we just did one exercise for back.
这不像我们只做了一项背部练习。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Then we did the pullover and then we had a row-
然后我们穿上了套头衫，然后我们吵了一架——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a pull down, and then some rowing and so forth.
下拉，然后划船等等。
So it ends up being about six work sets with some pushing beyond failure.
所以最终大约有六个工作集，其中一些工作超越了失败。
You're talking about 10 to 12-
你说的是10到12-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but maybe not so many sets where you're pushing past failure.
但也许没有那么多组让你克服失败。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah, and I grew up watching Dorian Yates and doing the workouts, and I loved it.
是的，我是看着多里安·耶茨（Dorian Yates）并进行锻炼长大的，我喜欢它。
I found it hard for me to maintain that kind of intensity, especially training alone, right?
我发现我很难保持这种强度，尤其是单独训练，对吗？
Force reps are almost impossible alone-
仅靠力量代表几乎是不可能的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
unless you have machines that can allow you to do that.
除非你有可以让你做到这一点的机器。
So it was more of a difficulty of being able to stick with that type of training or reproduce it over and over and over again.
因此，坚持这种类型的训练或一遍又一遍地重复它更加困难。
Dorian Yates is Dorian Yates for a reason, because and a six-time Mr. Olympia for a reason, because he had the ability...
多里安·耶茨（Dorian Yates）之所以是多里安·耶茨（Dorian Yates）是有原因的，因为六届奥林匹亚先生是有原因的，因为他有能力……
He's like the Michael Jordan of bodybuilding.
他就像健美界的迈克尔·乔丹。
Michael Jordan did the things he could do because he could do things other people couldn't.
迈克尔乔丹做了他能做的事情，因为他能做别人做不到的事情。
Dorian Yates, I feel, could do things that a lot of other people couldn't in terms of tapping into that pain, discomfort, and ability to go further when he wanted to quit.
我觉得，多里安·耶茨（Dorian Yates）可以做很多其他人做不到的事情，比如利用痛苦、不适，以及在他想戒烟时走得更远的能力。
Right when it got to be the hardest part of the set, he could start to revel in it and go further and further and further.
当它成为整套中最难的部分时，他就可以开始陶醉其中，并走得越来越远。
I don't know if everybody has that ability.
不知道大家有没有这个能力。
I can do it intermittently, but I can't do it consistently.
我可以间歇性地做，但不能持续地做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
And so for me, I just have to realize that and say, "Okay, I'm going to have to back off a little bit of the intensity, some of the forced reps, increase my volume just a little bit." Because it ultimately comes down to a volume and intensity game.
所以对我来说，我只需要意识到这一点并说：“好吧，我将不得不减少一点强度，一些强迫次数，稍微增加一点音量。”因为它最终归结为一场数量和强度的比赛。
And it could be literally the extreme examples of this.
这可能是这方面的极端例子。
There's a lot of cyclists who cycle at 80 to 100 RPMs, but do hours and hours of that, who blow up their quads and have amazing lower body size from their cycling.
有很多骑自行车的人以 80 到 100 转/分钟的速度骑车，但要骑上几个小时，他们的股四头肌会爆发，并且下身尺寸会因骑车而惊人。
How is that working?
效果如何？
Well, there's a metabolic effect they're getting, too, which we know is another stimulus for growth.
嗯，它们也受到了新陈代谢的影响，我们知道这是生长的另一种刺激因素。
But at the right amount of volume, even low levels of absolute load can create growth, right?
但在数量适当的情况下，即使绝对负载水平较低也能创造增长，对吗？
There's extreme examples of that.
有这样的极端例子。
And I always go back and say, she probably hates me for it by now, but I always use the example of my wife, who is a barber, and she used to cut 40 haircuts a day.
我总是回过头来说，她现在可能已经恨我了，但我总是用我妻子的例子，她是一名理发师，她过去每天理发 40 次。
30 to 40 haircuts a day.
每天理发30到40次。
She was like a machine.
她就像一台机器。
But little girl, and she has these great traps, really well-developed traps.
但是小女孩，她有这些伟大的陷阱，非常发达的陷阱。
And it's not necessarily from the load of the scissors that weigh ounces, but it's the weight of the arm being held like this all day long.
这不一定是来自盎司重的剪刀的负载，而是来自整天这样握着的手臂的重量。
No direct trap work ever in her entire life.
她一生中从未做过直接的陷阱工作。
Massive traps that look great, by the way.
顺便说一句，巨大的陷阱看起来很棒。
Baby, you look great.
宝贝，你看起来棒极了。
But had great trap development because of that.
但正因为如此，陷阱得到了很大的发展。
That's an extreme example.
这是一个极端的例子。
That's eight hours a day, every day.
也就是每天八个小时。
That's no load or just, again, very minimal load, but extreme amounts of volume.
这不是负载，或者只是非常小的负载，但容量很大。
So in terms of muscle growth, I always think there's always the possibility to get where you want to get, but you have to know how to balance volume and intensity.
所以就肌肉增长而言，我一直认为总有可能达到你想要达到的目标，但你必须知道如何平衡体积和强度。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In terms of frequency of training a given muscle group across the week, I'll just say two things that most people don't think about.
就一周训练特定肌肉群的频率而言，我只想说两件大多数人没有想到的事情。
One, there's nothing special about a week.
第一，一周没有什么特别的。
We use a week as a division of time.
我们用一周作为时间划分。
But muscles don't really care about weeks.
但肌肉并不真正关心几周。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Right.
对。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They care about stimulus and recovery.
他们关心刺激和恢复。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The adaptation, the hypertrophy, the strength.
适应、肥大、力量。
So I consider myself somebody with a relatively poor recovery quotient.
所以我认为自己是一个恢复商比较差的人。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I can hit each muscle group directly hard once per week.
我每周可以直接用力击打每个肌肉群一次。
So sets to failure, somewhere in between what, say-
所以设置为失败，介于两者之间，比如说-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Dorian does and what you do.
多里安所做的以及你所做的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yesterday's workout felt slightly higher than the normal volume-
昨天的锻炼感觉比平时的训练量稍微高了一点——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that I would do.
我会做的。
The workout I did with him was slightly lower, so somewhere in between.
我和他一起进行的锻炼稍微低一些，所以介于两者之间。
But there's a lot of indirect training.
但还有很多间接训练。
For instance, I'll train my legs really hard one day per week, but then I'll also do a HIIT workout on the assault bike.
例如，我每周有一天会非常努力地训练我的腿部，但随后我也会在突击自行车上进行 HIIT 锻炼。
And yeah, it's not a squat workout, but my legs get some stimulation from that.
是的，这不是深蹲锻炼，但我的腿从中得到了一些刺激。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
My lats do, too.
我的背阔肌也是如此。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'll do a sprint workout one day per week.
我每周都会进行一次冲刺训练。
So that's what works for me.
这就是对我有用的。
For you personally, before you make a suggestion to the larger world out there, how often can you directly hit a muscle group with the kind of intensity and volume that we did in the video that we provide a link to?
就您个人而言，在您向更大的世界提出建议之前，您多久可以以我们在提供链接的视频中所做的强度和体积直接击打肌肉群？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I can only directly hit that muscle group the same as you, once a week, with that level of intensity.
我只能像你一样，每周一次，以那种强度直接击打那个肌肉群。
Even in what we were doing yesterday, a lot of my focus is on you.
即使在我们昨天所做的事情中，我的大部分注意力都集中在你身上。
I'm trying to focus on making sure you're doing what you're doing right.
我正在努力集中精力确保你正在做正确的事情。
I'm trying to coach my way through what I'm doing.
我正在尝试通过我正在做的事情来指导自己。
So it's like if it was just me and my own gym, I might've even zoned out a little bit more, gone a little bit harder, got a little bit uglier face when I was doing my repetitions that were hard.
所以，如果只有我和我自己的健身房，我什至可能会更加走神一点，更加努力一点，当我做困难的重复动作时，脸会变得更难看一点。
So it might be even a little notch above what was shown in our video in terms of intensity.
因此，就强度而言，它甚至可能比我们视频中显示的要高一点点。
I can't do that more than once a week for a muscle group.
对于一个肌肉群，我每周只能做一次。
Now-
现在——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But you're also training back, you're also training chest, you're also training shoulders on a separate day in that case.
但在这种情况下，你也会在单独的一天训练背部，你也在训练胸部，你也在训练肩膀。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Well, that's the key, right?
嗯，这就是关键，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So when people recommend higher frequency sessions or every 48 hours or to twice a week minimum and all that, you are also forcing yourselves into some splits that have a lot more muscles being trained at once.
因此，当人们推荐更高频率的训练或每 48 小时一次或至少每周两次等等时，你也在强迫自己进行一些同时训练更多肌肉的训练。
Because in order to get back to them again in the same seven-day week period, you have to do multiple in one day.
因为为了在同一周 7 天的时间内再次回复他们，您必须在一天内做多次。
So let's just say in a push-pull leg scenario, you have to do all your pushing muscles.
因此，我们可以说，在推拉腿部的情况下，您必须使用所有的推肌。
So right off the bat, you're doing chest, shoulders, triceps in one day.
所以一开始，你就可以在一天内锻炼胸部、肩膀和三头肌。
I find even that to be a lot to ask For me, at times, not all the time, but especially if I'm short on sleep and short on time that day, I can't get through all those and get an adequate stimulus because there's just too much work to be done.
我发现对我来说，有时，不是一直，但特别是如果我睡眠不足且当天时间不够，我就无法完成所有这些并获得足够的刺激，因为有太多的工作要做。
So, that creates a need to have to condense into these multi-muscle group splits that you go through the push, you go through the pull, you go through the legs.
因此，这就需要压缩成多肌肉群的分裂，即推、拉、腿部。
Now you got to have, let's say, one rest day, come right back again.
现在你必须休息一天，然后再回来。
So, you're training six days a week.
所以，你每周训练六天。
Some people can't manage that either.
有些人也无法做到这一点。
But what I do is I say, all right, if I train, let's just say biceps, like we did, and I do them really hard, and I even just did biceps and triceps, say.
但我所做的是我说，好吧，如果我训练，我们就说二头肌，就像我们所做的那样，我真的很努力，我什至只做了二头肌和三头肌，比如说。
If I did those two, I still have to get through legs, I have to get through shoulders, I have to get through chest.
如果我做了这两件事，我仍然必须穿过腿，我必须穿过肩膀，我必须穿过胸部。
I break legs into anterior and posterior chains, so that's sort of two workouts.
我将腿分成前链和后链，所以这是两次锻炼。
I have to get through a lot more in the week.
这周我必须完成更多事情。
So, if I had to get it all done in one week, I would run out of time.
因此，如果我必须在一周内完成所有工作，我的时间就会不够了。
First thing I do is I extend beyond the seven days.
我做的第一件事就是延长 7 天的期限。
So, I break that rule.
所以，我打破了这条规则。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Because I realized, like you said, that our body doesn't know the difference.
因为我意识到，就像你说的，我们的身体不知道其中的区别。
So, it's okay if it takes me a little bit longer to wrap around before I do whatever the arms again, let's say, in this case, the arms again.
所以，如果我在再次做手臂上的任何事情之前需要更长的时间来环绕，那么就可以了，在这种情况下，再次做手臂。
So, I break that rule.
所以，我打破了这条规则。
It could be nine days for me in terms of my cycle.
就我的周期而言，这可能是九天。
But I know that when I come back after biceps, let's say I do posterior chain legs and then let's say I do after that chest, right?
但我知道，当我在二头肌之后回来时，假设我做了后链腿，然后假设我在胸部之后做了，对吧？
Even just a single muscle group.
即使只有一个肌肉群。
When I come back and I do back, the reason why back is following chest is I'm going to give my chest a reprieve from the day before.
当我回来时，我确实回来了，背部跟随胸部的原因是我要让我的胸部从前一天开始得到喘息。
I'm going to go pulling when I was just pushing.
我刚推的时候就要去拉了。
Neurologically, I'm giving myself a complete break.
从神经学上来说，我正在让自己彻底休息。
But I also know that I'm looking backwards to when I did biceps, and it was 48 to 72 hours prior that I did biceps.
但我也知道我正在回顾我做二头肌的时候，那是我做二头肌之前的 48 到 72 小时。
When I do my back, I know I'm going to get indirect work for my biceps again.
当我做背部训练时，我知道我的二头肌将再次得到间接锻炼。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Guarantee.
保证。
So, and if I don't know that, I can make sure I do by doing underhand rows.
所以，如果我不知道这一点，我可以通过做低手划船来确保我知道。
I could do underhand pull-downs.
我可以做低手下拉。
I could do chin-ups rather than pull-ups if I feel like I didn't adequately stimulate my biceps that day.
如果我觉得那天没有充分刺激我的二头肌，我可以做引体向上，而不是引体向上。
So, I can make selections in these back exercises that indirectly hit the biceps.
所以，我可以在这些背部练习中做出间接打击二头肌的选择。
That's a lot of volume.
这是一个很大的体积。
That's enough.
这就够了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Like, you're getting direct volume.
就像，你得到了直接的音量。
There's no rule, again, that says that it has to be directly hit to contribute volume to the work being done by that muscle group.
再次强调，没有规则说必须直接击打它才能为该肌肉群所做的工作贡献体积。
So, I come back, and I do my indirect volume there.
所以，我回来了，在那里做我的间接卷。
And a lot of times, these studies, I actually spoke to Brad Schoenfeld about this when he spoke at my event.
很多时候，这些研究，当布拉德·舍恩菲尔德在我的活动上发言时，我实际上与他谈过这个问题。
They don't do a lot of accounting for the indirect work because we can't quantify what indirect contribution that row had to-
他们没有对间接工作做很多解释，因为我们无法量化该行必须做出的间接贡献-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
...
...
a bicep.
二头肌。
So, there's not a lot of data around that anyway, about how much contribution the indirect work works towards.
因此，无论如何，关于间接工作的贡献有多大，目前还没有太多数据。
So, when they do these studies, and they look for how much total volume, they're looking at direct work for that muscle group.
因此，当他们进行这些研究并寻找总体积时，他们正在寻找该肌肉群的直接工作。
So, I feel as if it's, intuitively, from my experience, I know that I definitely get another exposure for that muscle group, and that contributes to the overall volume.
所以，我觉得，从我的经验来看，直觉上我知道我肯定会再次暴露该肌肉群，这有助于整体体积。
And then again, if it takes me a little bit longer to wrap around based on how I'm pairing things together, then so be it.
话又说回来，如果根据我将事物配对的方式需要我花更长的时间来完成，那就这样吧。
But I'm getting that indirect work, but never twice directly.
但我得到了间接的工作，但从来没有直接两次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, in some sense, you are similar to the Mike Mentzer philosophy, not of one set to absolute failure, because he was really, really on the far end of things there.
所以，从某种意义上说，你和迈克·门泽尔的哲学很相似，不是一套绝对失败的哲学，因为他真的非常非常地走在了事情的尽头。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I did that, too.
我也这么做了。
I just again, couldn't sustain that.
我再次无法忍受。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
But in terms of not making the seven-day week the-
但就不让每周工作 7 天而言——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
holy grail of how you organize your schedule.
如何安排日程的圣杯。
Because Mike, I was fortunate enough to know him.
因为迈克，我有幸认识他。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I paid him for a consult and-
我付钱给他咨询，然后——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
got to know him over the years before he unfortunately passed away.
在他不幸去世之前，我们认识了他很多年。
And he had me training, I think it was like shoulders and arms, rest two days.
他让我训练，我认为就像肩膀和手臂一样，休息两天。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Then it was like legs, rest two days, and then chest and back, and rest two days.
然后就是像腿，休息两天，然后是胸背，休息两天。
And he said-
他说——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
It was mind-blowing.
这真是令人兴奋。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, it was mind-blowing.
是的，这真是令人兴奋。
And the problem with that, I think for a beginner is you get results.
我认为对于初学者来说，问题在于你会得到结果。
You certainly get results.
你一定会得到结果。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But you don't get the opportunity to develop the skill of training.
但你没有机会发展培训技能。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, there's, as you-
我的意思是，有，正如你——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Or the enjoyment of it, right?
或者说享受其中的乐趣，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or the enjoyment.
或者说是一种享受。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, three, maybe four days a week of resistance training for me just is like the sweet spot.
所以，每周三、也许四天的阻力训练对我来说就是最佳选择。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But as with you, I've found that I can give myself permission, like if travel comes up, or a poor night's sleep, or some extra workload or something, like okay, there can be an extra day after legs, or you can modify things.
但和你一样，我发现我可以给自己许可，比如如果旅行发生，或者晚上睡眠不好，或者一些额外的工作量或者其他什么，比如好吧，腿后可以多一天，或者你可以修改一些东西。
Which brings me to my other question.
这让我想到了另一个问题。
Yesterday, after we were training, I learned something remarkable, which is there are times when you will split your split simply based on real-life constraints.
昨天，在我们训练之后，我学到了一些值得注意的东西，那就是有时你会仅仅根据现实生活中的限制来划分你的分组。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you gave a beautiful example.
你举了一个很好的例子。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm smiling already.
我已经在微笑了。
You said there are times when you're supposed to train at night, but you go in to read to your boys or spend some time with them before sleep, and you'll fall asleep next to them.
你说有时候你应该在晚上训练，但你进去给你的孩子们读书或者在睡觉前花一些时间和他们在一起，然后你就会在他们旁边睡着。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's more often than not.
这种情况经常发生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So, then you'll go into your home gym at like 10 or 11 o'clock at night-
所以，然后你会在晚上 10 点或 11 点去你的家庭健身房 -
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and you'll do half of your leg workout.
这样你就完成了一半的腿部锻炼。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And then you'll literally split the split and come back and do the remainder of that workout a few days later.
然后你会真正地分开训练，几天后回来做剩下的训练。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love this example because it's the real world.
我喜欢这个例子，因为它是真实的世界。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And obviously, you're prioritizing time with your boys.
显然，你优先考虑的是和孩子们在一起的时间。
And that's what really matters.
这才是真正重要的。
That's why you're training in the first place.
这就是你首先要训练的原因。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, yes, to have your physique-
我的意思是，是的，要有你的体质-
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
et cetera, but your dad.
等等，但是你爸爸。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That's what motivates me now.
这就是我现在的动力。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's what motivates you, to be around for a long time.
这就是激励你长期存在的动力。
So, splitting the split.
于是，分了就分了。
You wouldn't suggest it to people, but life happens.
你不会向人们建议它，但生活就是这样。
So, what does that look like?
那么，那是什么样子的呢？
Is it that you're doing your quad workout and then normally you would also do something else, but you're doing the other stuff later, or maybe doing three sets of squats and coming back two days later and doing the other three sets of squats?
是不是你正在做股四头肌锻炼，然后通常你也会做其他事情，但你稍后会做其他事情，或者可能做了三组深蹲，两天后回来做其他三组深蹲？
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
So, here's the irony of it.
所以，这就是它的讽刺之处。
I don't know if I wouldn't recommend splitting the split.
不知道大家是否会推荐分摊。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I feel like I'm starting to learn that splitting the split is me breaking a bad habit that I was unwilling to break a long time, because of the same mentality that led me to think of a seven-day training week, right?
我觉得我开始明白，分开分开就是我改掉一个我很长时间都不愿意改掉的坏习惯，因为同样的心态让我想到了每周7天的训练，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That I think what's happening and that I've been seeing is that splitting the split does a few things for me mentally.
我认为正在发生的事情以及我一直看到的是，分裂对我的精神上有一些好处。
It recharges me on a night where I really don't have a lot in the tank.
在我的油箱里真的没有太多东西的晚上，它让我重新充电。
If I get over there, and I was just sleeping for the last 30 minutes or 45 minutes, I'm not in the greatest state of mind to train.
如果我到了那里，最后 30 分钟或 45 分钟我只是在睡觉，那么我就没有处于最佳的训练状态。
But if I know that the requirement is, let's just get through, if I'm going to do my shoulders, let's say, let me get through ...
但如果我知道要求是，让我们通过，如果我要做我的肩膀，比方说，让我通过......
half of what I would normally do.
我通常会做的一半。
I'm going to focus today on the non-strength focused stuff, because I'm just not neurologically prepared to do that right now.
今天我将重点关注与力量无关的事情，因为我现在在神经上还没有准备好这样做。
So let's just work on the lateral raises, the strict lateral raises in that case, the hip exercise I like, it's a hip hugger.
所以让我们只做侧平举，在这种情况下是严格的侧平举，我喜欢的臀部练习，它是抱臀动作。
It's just different exercises that I would do that would be perceived as the non-compound exercises.
我所做的只是不同的练习，这些练习将被视为非复合练习。
And I'll do those, and what I find very quickly is that because I can ease into those exercises, they're not as heavily loaded, but they're high intensity.
我会做这些，我很快发现，因为我可以轻松地进行这些练习，所以它们的负荷不会那么重，但强度很高。
And it doesn't have to come from the load, it comes from the effort.
它不一定来自负荷，而是来自努力。
I can ease into them.
我可以轻松地融入其中。
After one or two sets, I'm good, and I'm kind of into it.
经过一两组之后，我就感觉很好了，而且我也有点喜欢上了。
And I know that once I'm done with these six sets or so, I'm done for the night.
我知道，一旦我完成了这六组左右，我今晚就结束了。
And I can come back and do my strength work when I'm ready, which could be two days later usually.
当我准备好时，我可以回来做力量训练，通常是两天后。
Sometimes the very next night.
有时就在第二天晚上。
Really, I'll just split it to the next night, and whatever was planned gets bumped one spot.
真的，我会把它分成第二天晚上，无论计划如何都会被撞到一个地方。
It's going to extend that training week even further so that nine days can become 11 or 12.
训练周将会进一步延长，这样 9 天就可以变成 11 天或 12 天。
But we talked about recovery before.
但我们之前讨论过恢复。
It seems to be working well with me for my recovery at this age.
对于我这个年纪的康复来说，它似乎很有效。
And again, I think I have very bad sleep habits only because of the result of working out at 11:00 or 12:00 is you...
再说一次，我觉得我的睡眠习惯很不好，只是因为11:00或12:00锻炼的结果是你……
And by the way, eating dinner after that, that's my dinner time.
顺便说一句，在那之后吃晚饭，那就是我的晚餐时间。
Eating dinner after that, I get to bed 1:30 in the morning and I'm getting up at 7:00, or I get up to bed at 2:00 and I'm getting up at 7:00.
吃完晚饭后，我早上 1:30 睡觉，7:00 起床，或者 2:00 起床，7:00 起床。
This might be what works for me best right now because I don't have the recovery through as much sleep as I should get.
这可能是目前最适合我的方法，因为我没有通过应有的睡眠来恢复。
Now, I know a lot of people will yell and say, "Well, you need to work on your sleep and get better recovery." I understand that.
现在，我知道很多人会大喊说：“好吧，你需要改善睡眠并得到更好的恢复。”我明白这一点。
Right now, this little pattern is where I'm in.
现在，这个小模式就是我所处的位置。
It can be fixed by me training earlier in the day, stepping away from work and training earlier in the day.
这个问题可以通过我在当天早些时候训练、离开工作并在当天早些时候训练来解决。
I haven't found the time or the way to do that effectively at this moment, so this is what I have to navigate.
目前我还没有时间或方法来有效地做到这一点，所以这就是我必须解决的问题。
And I encourage people to do the same thing.
我鼓励人们也做同样的事情。
Find what works with your current schedule.
找到适合您当前日程安排的内容。
You can have an eye towards fixing it, but what works for your schedule to get you through this time period?
你可以着眼于解决它，但是什么对你的日程安排有效，让你度过这段时间呢？
I think it's working because I have more recovery time in a less recovered sleep state that seems to still be progressing because I can still lift heavier than I have been able to.
我认为它有效，因为我在恢复较少的睡眠状态下有更多的恢复时间，这种状态似乎仍在进步，因为我仍然可以举起比以前更大的重量。
I'm still able to create effective workouts for me.
我仍然能够为自己制定有效的锻炼计划。
I feel good.
我感觉很好。
My joints are actually feeling good.
我的关节实际上感觉很好。
Things are feeling even a little better than they were.
感觉情况甚至比以前好一点了。
So it happens to be working for me.
所以它恰好对我有用。
So I might be changing my mind a little bit about frequencies and volumes in terms of what I do in a given workout.
因此，就我在特定锻炼中所做的事情而言，我可能会稍微改变一下关于频率和训练量的想法。
And accepting the fact that it can happen over two days is so relieving because it's like, "I don't have to bring it all today.
接受这可能在两天内发生的事实让人感到非常轻松，因为这就像，“我今天不必把所有东西都带来。
I can just sort of get this much done today." And it allows me to have a higher effort to handle, again, some of the lower volumes that we're doing.
今天我就可以完成这么多了。”它让我能够更加努力地处理我们正在做的一些较小的工作量。
So it's a win-win all around.
所以这是一个双赢的局面。
And the kids like me more for it, too.
孩子们也因此更喜欢我。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, and someday they'll see this and they're going to see so much of your content.
好吧，有一天他们会看到这个，他们会看到你的很多内容。
They're grateful for it.
他们对此表示感激。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
They're totally disinterested right now.
他们现在完全没有兴趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, but they're going to be grateful for the fact that-
是的，但他们会感激这一事实——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you're obviously prioritizing them, and your wife, and your family, and that's a beautiful thing.
显然，你优先考虑的是他们、你的妻子和你的家人，这是一件美好的事情。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, Jeff, thank you so much for the workout yesterday.
好吧，杰夫，非常感谢你昨天的锻炼。
I definitely learned a number of things.
我确实学到了很多东西。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
That was fun.
那很有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm definitely feeling it a bit in the-
我肯定有一点感觉——
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
We got to do more of those.
我们必须做更多这样的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, we should do more.
是的，我们应该做得更多。
And thank you for coming back to educate us.
感谢您回来教育我们。
And some people, when they speak, not a whole lot happens except a bunch of exhales shaped into sound.
而有些人，当他们说话时，除了一堆呼气形成声音之外，并没有发生太多事情。
When you speak, people learn, and they learn super valuable information, everything from the basics all the way up to the nuance.
当你讲话时，人们会学习，他们会学到超级有价值的信息，从基础知识一直到细微差别。
You're constantly educating yourself already, just a moment ago.
就在刚才，你已经在不断地教育自己了。
You're still evolving the way you're doing things, and you share that.
你的做事方式仍在不断发展，并且你会分享这一点。
And again, these so-called small things that allow one to do the big things for much longer and much more effectively is really what it's all about.
再说一次，这些所谓的小事让一个人能够更长时间、更有效地做大事，这才是真正的意义所在。
And you clearly walk the walk.
你显然言出必行。
You look awesome.
你看起来棒极了。
You're 50, steroid, TRT free, all of that, and you look incredible.
你已经 50 岁了，没有类固醇，没有 TRT，所有这些，你看起来不可思议。
And so there are probably none people who are doing what you're doing.
所以可能没有人在做你正在做的事情。
You're truly an N of one that you can encapsulate all this, and you're just so generous with your time and your energy, and so I'm very grateful for you coming on here again.
你确实是一位能够概括这一切的人，而且你非常慷慨地投入了你的时间和精力，所以我非常感谢你再次来到这里。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
I was so pumped.
我很兴奋。
I've been wanting to come back here for so long, and negotiating the travel is always a thing for me, but I was so excited to be able to do it, finally do it, and getting the workout in, and to come back and sit down with you is always my favorite thing.
我一直想回到这里，谈判旅行对我来说一直是一件事，但我很高兴能够做到，终于做到了，进行锻炼，然后回来和你坐下来永远是我最喜欢的事情。
So thank you for having me.
所以谢谢你邀请我。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, please come back again.
好吧，请你再回来吧。
You're an inspiration to me.
你是我的灵感来源。
And like I said, you're a absolutely extraordinary educator.
就像我说的，您绝对是一位非凡的教育家。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Jeff Cavaliere:
杰夫·卡瓦利埃：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Jeff Cavaliere.
感谢您参加今天与 Jeff Cavaliere 的讨论。
To learn more about his work and to find links to "Athlete X" resources, please see the show note caption.
要了解有关他的工作的更多信息并查找“Athlete X”资源的链接，请参阅节目注释标题。
In addition, you'll also find links in the show note captions to the workout that Jeff and I did and that was referenced a few times throughout the episode.
此外，您还可以在节目注释标题中找到杰夫和我所做的锻炼的链接，并且在整个剧集中多次引用了该锻炼。
So that's a link to a proper workout for the biceps, for the triceps, for the forearms, and Jeff's signature move, face pulls.
因此，这与二头肌、三头肌、前臂以及杰夫的标志性动作面拉的正确锻炼有关。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请通过单击 Spotify 和 Apple 上的关注按钮来关注播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们五星级的评价。
And you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
您现在可以在 Spotify 和 Apple 上给我们留下评论。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客或嘉宾有意见，或者您希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑的主题，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这本书是我花了五年多时间编写的，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验。
And it covers protocols for everything from sleep, to exercise, to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它涵盖了从睡眠、锻炼、压力控制、与注意力和动机相关的各个方面的协议，当然，我还为所包含的协议提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." And if you're not already following me on social media, I am hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 hubermanlab。
So that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客上的信息不同。
Again, it's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.
再说一遍，所有社交媒体平台上都是 hubermanlab。
And if you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as what we call protocols in the form of one to three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep, how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及我们所说的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议，涵盖从如何优化睡眠、如何优化多巴胺、故意冷暴露等所有内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training.
我们有一个基本的健身方案，涵盖心血管训练和阻力训练。
All of that is available completely zero cost.
所有这些都是完全零成本可用的。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to Newsletter, and enter your email.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的菜单选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯，然后输入您的电子邮件。
And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Jeff Cavaliere.
再次感谢您参加今天与 Jeff Cavaliere 的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。