Build Muscle & Strength & Forge Your Life Path | Dorian Yates
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
When people come to train with me, I said our objective is to get an exercise and go to real muscular failure.
当人们来和我一起训练时，我说我们的目标是锻炼身体并达到真正的肌肉衰竭。
You got to give it more than it's used to.
你必须给予它比以前更多的东西。
The body does not want to change.
身体不想改变。
It wants to keep status quo.
它希望保持现状。
So you got to give it a bloody good reason, as we would say in England, to change, right?
所以你必须给它一个该死的充分理由，就像我们在英格兰所说的那样，改变，对吧？
So you got to put more stress on the body than it's used to, and then you need to recover from that.
所以你必须给身体施加比以前更大的压力，然后你需要从中恢复。
That's the idea, to do enough to stimulate, but not more than that, because this is an overload that you got to recover from.
这就是我们的想法，做足够的事情来刺激，但不要更多，因为这是你必须从中恢复的超负荷。
And the number one thing that I hear from people is, "I don't really have time for that.
我从人们那里听到的第一件事是，“我真的没有时间做这个。
I have a business.
我有生意。
I have a family." I said, "If you could give me 45 minutes twice a week, that's all you need to do." And it's not theory, because I've done it.
我有一个家庭。”我说：“如果你能给我每周两次 45 分钟的时间，那就够了。”这不是理论，因为我已经做到了。
You change your life, literally, with that and a good diet.
从字面上看，你可以通过这一点和良好的饮食来改变你的生活。
So the whole time thing excuse is not relevant.
所以整个事情的借口都是不相关的。
I'm not listening.
我不听。
You don't need a lot of time.
你不需要很多时间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Dorian Yates.
今天我的客人是多里安·耶茨。
Dorian Yates is a legendary six-time Mr. Olympia winner, who is also considered one of the greatest pioneers of training methods for bodybuilding, health, and fitness.
多里安·耶茨 (Dorian Yates) 是六届奥林匹亚先生冠军的传奇人物，也被认为是健美、健康和健身训练方法最伟大的先驱之一。
He is known for using and recommending low-volume, high-intensity workouts, meaning very few sets done with maximal focus, perfect form, and directed muscle engagement, taken to muscular failure and beyond.
他以使用和推荐小量、高强度的训练而闻名，这意味着很少有组数能够最大程度地集中注意力、完美的形式和定向肌肉参与，直至肌肉衰竭甚至更严重。
Today, Dorian teaches us how the typical person who is not interested in competitive bodybuilding should train for health and fitness and overall best results.
今天，多里安告诉我们，对竞技健美不感兴趣的典型人应该如何进行健康和健身训练以及总体最佳效果。
We cover muscle building, fat loss, mobility, what forms of cardio are best, when to do them, and much more.
我们涵盖增肌、减脂、活动能力、什么形式的有氧运动最好、何时进行等等。
The advice Dorian provides today is immensely valuable and applicable to everyone, men, women, young, and old.
多里安今天提供的建议非常有价值，适用于每个人，无论男性、女性、年轻人还是老年人。
He explains how, for most people, the best muscle building and strength results will be achieved by training no more than three, and in some cases, only two days per week.
他解释了对于大多数人来说，如何通过每周训练不超过三天、在某些情况下仅训练两天来获得最佳的肌肉锻炼和力量效果。
Dorian also shares valuable insights on how to mentally frame and navigate your life and goals, how to use your hardships as fuel.
多里安还分享了关于如何在精神上构建和引导你的生活和目标、如何利用你的困难作为燃料的宝贵见解。
He has a lot to say about that based on his own experience.
根据他自己的经历，他对此有很多话要说。
But also how to recognize and lean into your natural strengths, how to be practical in choosing what dreams you chase, and how to know when to pivot from one endeavor to another.
还包括如何认识并发挥自己的天生优势，如何务实地选择自己追求的梦想，以及如何知道何时从一项努力转向另一项努力。
We also discuss cannabis.
我们还讨论大麻。
In fact, even though I, of course, knew he was, Dorian and I first connected because of an episode that I did about cannabis, both the potential benefits of cannabis as well as the very serious risks that may exist for certain people.
事实上，尽管我当然知道他是，但多里安和我第一次联系是因为我对大麻所做的一件事，大麻的潜在好处以及对某些人可能存在的非常严重的风险。
Dorian's experience and read of the data on cannabis contrasted with mine, and that led us to an ongoing discussion that we continue today on the podcast, and that has me now reading into some newer studies.
多里安的经验和对大麻数据的阅读与我的形成鲜明对比，这导致我们今天在播客上继续进行持续的讨论，这让我现在阅读一些新的研究。
And I promise that I'll update everyone on my take of those studies once I get through them.
我保证，一旦完成这些研究，我将向大家通报我对这些研究的最新看法。
Oh, yes, and Dorian also took me through a Yates-style high-intensity workout at Gold's Gym Venice.
哦，是的，多里安还带我在威尼斯戈尔德健身房进行了耶茨式的高强度锻炼。
We trained back, we filmed it, and it's posted to our Clips channel.
我们回来训练，拍摄它，并将其发布到我们的剪辑频道。
So you can check that out.
所以你可以检查一下。
It's linked in the show note caption.
它链接在显示注释标题中。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors.
为了与这个主题保持一致，今天的节目确实有赞助商。
And now for my discussion with Dorian Yates.
现在我与多里安·耶茨进行讨论。
The Dorian Yates.
多里安·耶茨。
Welcome.
欢迎。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Apparently, yeah.
显然，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Certainly.
当然。
Big fan for many years.
多年来的忠实粉丝。
Thanks to you and thanks to Mike Mentzer and a few, at the time, real iconoclasts.
感谢您，感谢迈克·门泽尔（Mike Mentzer）和当时的一些真正的反传统人士。
I trained differently than everyone around me told me to.
我的训练方式与周围每个人告诉我的方式不同。
And while I never became a competitive athlete at anywhere near the level that you did, certainly, it got me the results I wanted so much faster.
虽然我从来没有成为一名接近你水平的竞技运动员，但当然，它让我更快地得到了我想要的结果。
I feel super healthy and great at 50, and I really want to talk about this high-intensity, low-ish volume training that really can be credited to you.
我在 50 岁的时候感觉非常健康和伟大，我真的很想谈谈这种高强度、低训练量的训练，这确实可以归功于你。
Because for those that don't know the community that you come from, there have been people who have been big proponents of long sessions, many hours in the gym.
因为对于那些不了解你来自哪个社区的人来说，有些人一直大力支持长时间锻炼，在健身房里呆上几个小时。
At the opposite extreme, there's been people, such as Mike Mentzer, who have been proponents of very brief, very high intensity, even one set to failure, and that's it.
在另一个极端，有人，比如迈克·门泽尔，一直支持非常简短、非常高强度的训练，甚至一组到失败，仅此而已。
And you brought things into some sense of moderation.
你让事情变得有节制。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It was almost like a hybrid-
它几乎就像一个混合体——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
I guess.
我猜。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Between the purest-
最纯粹之间——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
HIT, which I didn't come up with the idea.
HIT，这个主意不是我想出来的。
The guy that really initiated the whole thing was Arthur Jones, who was the guy that made the Nautilus machines, and then he passed it on, right?
真正发起整个事情的人是阿瑟琼斯，他是制造鹦鹉螺机器的人，然后他把它传承下去，对吧？
And Mike Mentzer made it more popular because Mike Mentzer was American champion, Mr. Universe, and he was in the magazines.
迈克·门泽 (Mike Mentzer) 让它更受欢迎，因为迈克·门泽 (Mike Mentzer) 是美国冠军、宇宙先生，而且他还出现在杂志上。
And I read Arthur Jones's books, and I think I'm a logical thinker, so it made sense to me.
我读了阿瑟·琼斯的书，我认为我是一个逻辑思考者，所以这对我来说很有意义。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But if it made sense to me and it didn't work out practically, who cares?
但如果这对我来说有意义但实际上行不通，谁在乎呢？
So like yourself, I was kind of training like that, and everyone was telling me, "This is not the way to do it.
所以就像你一样，我也在接受这样的训练，每个人都告诉我，“这不是这样做的方法。
You need to train more often, do more sets," and so on.
你需要更频繁地训练，做更多的组数，”等等。
So I tried it.
所以我尝试了一下。
And the whole thing with my career, it's a bit like a science experiment in a way, that I documented everything.
我的职业生涯的整个过程，在某种程度上有点像科学实验，我记录了一切。
So I've got every workout.
所以我每次都进行锻炼。
The first time I stepped in the gym and said, "Seriously, okay, I'm going to train, and I want to be a competitive bodybuilder, and this is how I'm going to change my life, and maybe I'm going to go to gym or something like that." That was about it at the time.
当我第一次走进健身房时，我说：“说真的，好吧，我要去训练，我想成为一名有竞争力的健美运动员，这就是我改变我生活的方式，也许我要去健身房或类似的地方。”当时就是这样。
But I said, "Okay." So I'm tracking everything.
但我说：“好吧。”所以我正在追踪一切。
My progress is going really well.
我的进步非常顺利。
I'm training three times a week for maybe 45 minutes, an hour.
我每周训练 3 次，每次大概 45 分钟或一个小时。
But I'm working as well.
但我也在工作。
I'm doing construction.
我是做建筑的
I'm doing some heavy jobs.
我正在做一些繁重的工作。
So this is taking energy.
所以这需要能量。
Going well, going well.
一路走好，一路走好。
Okay, then let me try it.
好吧，那我试试吧。
Let me jack it up.
让我把它顶起来。
I'm training four times a week.
我每周训练四次。
Could do a little bit more.
还可以多做一点。
What happened?
发生了什么？
Nothing.
没有什么。
That's what happened.
这就是发生的事情。
Everything stopped For three or four weeks, I cut it back, started growing again.
一切都停止了三四个星期，我把它剪掉，又开始生长。
So I didn't really need to learn that lesson too many times.
所以我真的不需要多次吸取这个教训。
And I got to be British champion.
我必须成为英国冠军。
I got to be pro, turn pro.
我必须成为职业选手，变成职业选手。
And I read everything that Mike Mentzer wrote in the magazines and everything like that, and got to meet him when I came out here.
我读了迈克·门泽尔在杂志上写的所有内容以及类似的内容，当我来到这里时，我见到了他。
And we discussed training, and so, "Okay, what are you doing?" "I'm warming up, whatever it takes, couple of sets.
我们讨论了培训，所以，“好吧，你在做什么？” “我正在热身，不惜一切代价，做几组。
I'm doing a set to failure, and then I'm resting two or three minutes, dropping it down 10%, maybe, and going to failure again." So I'm hitting that nail in twice just to make sure it's in there.
我正在做一组力竭，然后休息两三分钟，可能会下降 10%，然后再次力竭。”所以我把钉子钉了两次，只是为了确保它在那里。
So Mike said, "Why don't you try cutting back to one set to failure?" So I started that around '91, '92, and I feel like I got another level of growth from that.
于是迈克说：“你为什么不尝试减少到力竭的一组呢？”所以我在 91 年、92 年左右开始了，我觉得我从中得到了另一个水平的成长。
So people say, "Oh, Dorian doesn't do HIT." I don't know what category we want to put it in, but it's probably somewhere between conventional bodybuilding and the extreme of HIT that Mike Mentzer was doing and Arthur Jones, which would be perfect for the average person.
所以人们会说，“哦，Dorian 不做 HIT。”我不知道我们想把它归入哪个类别，但它可能介于传统健美运动和迈克·门泽尔（Mike Mentzer）和阿瑟·琼斯（Arthur Jones）所做的极端 HIT 之间，这对于普通人来说是完美的。
Arthur Jones was doing a whole body workout couple of times a week.
阿瑟·琼斯每周进行几次全身锻炼。
That was his initial recommendation.
这是他最初的建议。
And I agree, for the average person, that's great, because you want to build a certain level of muscle mass for your health.
我同意，对于普通人来说，这很好，因为你想为你的健康建立一定水平的肌肉质量。
But I was a competitive bodybuilder, so you've got to be concerned with a little bit, like side delts, rear delts.
但我是一名竞技健美运动员，所以你必须关心一些，比如三角肌侧束、三角肌后束。
Average person could do one shoulder exercise, that would be enough.
一般人做一个肩部练习就够了。
So you need to do a little bit more as a competitive bodybuilder.
因此，作为一名竞技健美运动员，您需要多做一点。
So somebody came up with the moniker Blood and Guts.
所以有人想出了“血与胆”这个绰号。
They saw my training.
他们看到了我的训练。
They said, "That looks like blood and guts." So that's what we called it.
他们说：“这看起来像血和内脏。”这就是我们所说的。
So it's high-intensity training, a lot less than the other guys were doing probably.
所以这是高强度的训练，比其他人可能做的要少得多。
But maybe the HIT purists will say, "Oh, it's not." But it is what it is, and it's all-- I've got every workout written down so people can see what I did, and call it what you will, but it was briefer than everyone else I was competing against.
但也许 HIT 纯粹主义者会说：“哦，不是的。”但事实就是这样，而且就是这样——我把每一次训练都写下来了，这样人们就可以看到我做了什么，你可以随意称呼它，但它比我竞争的其他人都要简短。
And it had an effect, although not everyone followed what I was doing.
尽管并不是每个人都遵循我所做的事情，但它确实产生了效果。
But prior to myself being successful, it was six times a week.
但在我成功之前，每周有六次。
Some people were doing twice a day.
有些人一天做两次。
Not very often, to be honest.
老实说，并不经常。
This is a lot in the magazines.
这在杂志上很多。
Arnold promoted that a lot, right?
阿诺德对此进行了很多宣传，对吗？
But if you look at Arnold, he was probably a full size when he was 21, 22.
但如果你看看阿诺德，他在 21、22 岁时可能就已经是全尺寸了。
He was huge.
他很大。
How did he get there?
他是怎么到那里的？
He was bench pressing 500.
他卧推500米。
He was doing deadlifts.
他正在做硬拉。
He was doing squats, whatever.
不管怎样，他正在做深蹲。
He built the foundation.
他奠定了基础。
And I believe competitive bodybuilders back then, they used the weights as a calorie burner as well.
我相信当时的竞技健美运动员也使用重量作为卡路里燃烧器。
So they've got the muscle mass, then they're doing more volume and more sets and more reps, and obviously this is helping to maintain the muscle, while at the same time burn a lot of calories.
所以他们有了肌肉质量，然后他们会做更多的训练量、更多的组数和更多的次数，显然这有助于保持肌肉，同时燃烧大量的卡路里。
So I said, "Wouldn't it be better to do the weight training just to build muscle and maintain muscle and do some cardio exercise to burn extra calories, so then you'll be able to recover properly?" So that was my approach.
所以我说：“做重量训练只是为了增强肌肉和保持肌肉，然后做一些有氧运动来燃烧多余的热量，这样你就能正常恢复，不是更好吗？”这就是我的方法。
So it probably falls somewhere in between the two camps-
所以它可能介于两个阵营之间——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
to be honest.
老实说。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I remember trying the one set to failure, a couple warm-ups, one set to failure.
是的，我记得尝试过一组失败，几次热身，一组失败。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You pre-exhaust, leg extensions into leg press.
你预先筋疲力尽，将腿部伸展变成压腿。
And it occurred to me after about a year or two that I needed to do a little bit more.
大约一两年后，我突然意识到我需要做更多的事情。
I mention that because I think I'm like most people in the sense that, and let me frame this right, I could get certain movements to really thrash the muscle that I needed to with one or two sets.
我提到这一点是因为我认为我和大多数人一样，让我正确地阐述这一点，我可以通过某些动作来真正锻炼我需要的肌肉，只需一到两组。
But if there isn't really good mind-muscle connection and fiber recruitment, you might need a bit more.
但如果没有真正良好的精神-肌肉连接和纤维募集，你可能需要更多。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It's possible, yeah.
这是可能的，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
And it-
还有它——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
None of this is written in stone.
这些都不是一成不变的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
When people come to train with me, I said our objective is to get an exercise and go to real muscular failure.
当人们来和我一起训练时，我说我们的目标是锻炼身体并达到真正的肌肉衰竭。
We'll need to get there safely, so we'll do a couple of sets to warm up.
我们需要安全到达那里，所以我们会做几组热身。
But if somehow you don't feel or I don't feel you nailed it in that set, let's do another one.
但如果不知怎的，你不觉得，或者我觉得你没有在那一组中做到这一点，那么我们再做另一组。
There's no law we can't do a little bit more.
没有法律规定我们不能做更多的事情。
So you are correct in saying that somebody that's very experienced, they get that mind-muscle connection where you can just link in, and you can fully destroy it.
所以你说的是正确的，一个非常有经验的人，他们获得了思想与肌肉的联系，你可以在其中链接，并且你可以完全摧毁它。
So it depends on the person.
所以这取决于人。
But the idea is to not do more than is necessary.
但我们的想法是不要做超出必要的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Because then you're going to find it harder to recover.
因为那样你会发现很难恢复。
And the process is stimulate, right?
而且这个过程很刺激，对吧？
So you got to train, you got to overload, and during this process, you're not growing.
所以你必须训练，你必须超负荷，而在这个过程中，你并没有成长。
You're creating damage, stress to the muscle that then has to recover and then overcompensate.
你正在对肌肉造成伤害和压力，然后肌肉必须恢复并过度补偿。
So two things need to be in place.
所以有两件事需要到位。
Need to be sufficient intensity or overload, or there'll be no reaction, and then you need to recover from that.
需要足够的强度或超负荷，否则就没有反应，然后你需要从中恢复。
And let's just put it straight out there, man.
让我们直接说出来吧，伙计。
There's a big difference between somebody using anabolic steroids than somebody that's not.
使用合成代谢类固醇的人和不使用合成代谢类固醇的人之间存在很大差异。
So somebody that's using can recover from that process more quickly than someone that isn't.
因此，正在使用的人可以比没有使用的人更快地从该过程中恢复。
So I feel I should always say this because when you're looking at a champion bodybuilder and how he trains and you're a young guy trying to build up, that's probably not appropriate for you right now.
所以我觉得我应该总是这样说，因为当你看到一位冠军健美运动员以及他的训练方式时，而你是一个正在努力增肌的年轻人，那么现在可能不适合你。
That guy has already got the size and is refining for a competition or something.
那家伙已经有了尺寸，正在为比赛或其他什么而精炼。
So that's the idea.
这就是我们的想法。
To do enough to stimulate, but not more than that, because this is an overload that you got to recover from.
做足够的刺激，但不要更多，因为这是你必须从中恢复的超负荷。
So you got to recover before you grow as well.
所以在成长之前你也必须先恢复。
So you don't want to go back to the gym before that whole process has taken place.
所以在整个过程完成之前你不想回到健身房。
So I use some simple analogies sometimes when people are training with me.
所以当人们和我一起训练时，我有时会使用一些简单的类比。
Like we're going in now, we're knocking a wall down, right?
就像我们现在进去一样，我们正在推倒一堵墙，对吗？
We're rehabbing your house, we're knocking a wall down, and the guys need to come now with the bricks.
我们正在修复你的房子，我们正在推倒一堵墙，人们现在需要带着砖头来。
So they need materials-
所以他们需要材料——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
and they need to do it, but they're halfway through building that wall, and you come and knock it down again.
他们需要这样做，但他们正在建造那堵墙的一半，你又来把它推倒了。
We're not getting anywhere.
我们一事无成。
So that's the process-
所以这就是过程——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
that you have to understand.
你必须明白。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, David.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一大卫。
David makes a protein bar unlike any other.
大卫制作的蛋白质棒与众不同。
It has 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar.
它含有 28 克蛋白质，仅 150 卡路里，零克糖。
That's right, 28 grams of protein, and 75% of its calories come from protein.
没错，28克蛋白质，它的热量75%来自于蛋白质。
That's 50% higher than the next closest protein bar.
这比第二接近的蛋白质棒高出 50%。
These bars from David also taste amazing.
大卫的这些酒吧味道也很棒。
Right now, my favorite flavor is the new cinnamon roll flavor, but I also like the chocolate chip cookie dough flavor, and I also like the salted peanut butter flavor.
现在，我最喜欢的口味是新的肉桂卷口味，但我也喜欢巧克力饼干面团口味，我也喜欢咸花生酱口味。
Basically, I like all the flavors.
基本上所有的口味我都喜欢。
They're all delicious.
它们都很好吃。
Also, big news, David bars are now back in stock.
另外，还有一个大消息，大卫金条现在又重新有货了。
They were sold out for several months because they are that popular, but they are now back in stock.
由于它们太受欢迎，它们被抢购一空几个月，但现在又有货了。
By eating a David bar, I'm able to get 28 grams of protein in the calories of a snack, which makes it very easy for me to meet my protein goals of one gram of protein per pound of body weight per day, and to do so without eating excess calories.
通过吃大卫棒，我可以在一份零食的卡路里中获得 28 克蛋白质，这使我很容易实现每天每磅体重 1 克蛋白质的蛋白质目标，并且无需摄入过多卡路里。
I generally eat a David bar most afternoons, and I always keep them with me when I'm away from home or traveling because they're incredibly convenient to get enough protein.
我通常大多数下午都会吃大卫棒，当我出门在外或旅行时，我总是随身携带它们，因为它们非常方便地获取足够的蛋白质。
As I mentioned, they're incredibly delicious, and given that 28 grams of protein, they're pretty filling for just 150 calories, so they're great between meals as well.
正如我所提到的，它们非常美味，而且含有 28 克蛋白质，仅需 150 卡路里热量就可以产生饱腹感，因此在两餐之间也非常适合。
If you'd like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 David，可以访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
Again, that's davidprotein.com/huberman.
同样，这是 david Protein.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Joovv.
今天的节目也是Joovv给我们带来的。
Joovv makes medical-grade red light therapy devices.
Joovv 生产医疗级红光治疗设备。
Now, if there's one thing that I have consistently emphasized on this podcast, it is the incredible impact that light can have on our biology.
现在，如果我在这个播客中一直强调一件事，那就是光对我们的生物学产生的令人难以置信的影响。
Now, in addition to sunlight, red light and near-infrared light sources have been shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of cellular and organ health, including faster muscle recovery, improved skin health and wound healing, improvements in acne, reduced pain and inflammation, even mitochondrial function, and improving vision itself.
现在，除了阳光之外，红光和近红外光源已被证明对改善细胞和器官健康的许多方面具有积极作用，包括更快的肌肉恢复、改善皮肤健康和伤口愈合、改善痤疮、减少疼痛和炎症，甚至线粒体功能，以及改善视力本身。
What sets Joovv lights apart and why they're my preferred red light therapy device is that they use clinically proven wavelengths, meaning specific wavelengths of red light and near-infrared light in combination to trigger the optimal cellular adaptations.
Joovv 灯的与众不同之处以及它们成为我首选红光治疗设备的原因在于它们使用经过临床验证的波长，这意味着特定波长的红光和近红外光相结合可以触发最佳的细胞适应。
Personally, I use the Joovv whole body panel about three to four times a week, and I use the Joovv handheld light both at home and when I travel.
就我个人而言，我每周大约使用 Joovv 全身面板三到四次，在家和旅行时我都会使用 Joovv 手持灯。
If you'd like to try Joovv, you can go to Joovv, spelled J-O-O-V-V, .com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Joovv，可以访问 Joovv，拼写为 J-O-O-V-V，.com/huberman。
Joovv is offering an exclusive discount to all Huberman Lab listeners with up to $400 off Joovv products.
Joovv 为所有 Huberman Lab 听众提供独家折扣，Joovv 产品最高可享受 400 美元的折扣。
Again, that's Joovv, spelled J-O-O-V-V, .com/huberman to get up to $400 off.
同样，这是 Joovv，拼写为 J-O-O-V-V，.com/huberman 最高可享受 400 美元折扣。
One of the really kind of unfortunate things about resistance training is that it fills the muscle with blood temporarily.
阻力训练真正不幸的事情之一是它会暂时使肌肉充满血液。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In part because of some quotes that came from Arnold in "Pumping Iron." The so-called pump, it's an illusion.
部分原因是阿诺德在《泵铁》中引用了一些话。所谓泵，那是一种幻觉。
It's transient, and while it can be helpful in letting you know that you targeted a given-
它是短暂的，虽然它可以帮助你知道你的目标是给定的-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
muscle correctly, I think people get addicted to that feeling, but they're not realizing that the damage to the muscle tissue that then is allowed to recover is what makes the muscle actually larger-
正确地锻炼肌肉，我认为人们会对这种感觉上瘾，但他们没有意识到，肌肉组织受到的损伤可以恢复，从而使肌肉实际上变得更大——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Absolutely
绝对
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
when you're outside of the gym.
当你走出健身房时。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
A pump is just a temporary extra blood flow to the area.
泵只是暂时向该区域提供额外的血液。
That feels good.
感觉很好。
You're pumped up, you feel tight, but you could get a lightweight and get a great pump.
你会感到精力充沛，感觉紧绷，但你可以买一件轻量级的衣服，获得一个很好的泵感。
It's not going to stimulate any growth.
它不会刺激任何增长。
So don't be fooled by the pump.
所以不要被泵所迷惑。
It's nice, and it's part of the process, but you've got to overload the muscle.
这很好，也是这个过程的一部分，但你必须让肌肉超负荷。
You've got to give it more than it's used to.
你必须给予它比以前更多的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
The body does not want to change.
身体不想改变。
It wants to keep status quo.
它希望保持现状。
So you've got to give it a bloody good reason, as we would say in England, to change.
所以你必须给它一个非常充分的理由来改变，就像我们在英格兰所说的那样。
So you've got to put more stress on the body than it's used to.
所以你必须给身体施加比以前更大的压力。
Otherwise, you won't adapt.
不然你就不会适应。
So even if it's half a pound more or one rep more, it's got to be something more that the body says, "Hey, this stress, I can't handle it.
因此，即使多了半磅或多次数，身体也一定会说：“嘿，这种压力，我无法承受。
I need to reinforce myself and adapt to this stress, so next time it won't be so stressful." That's basically the process.
我需要增强自己，适应这种压力，这样下次就不会那么紧张了。”基本上就是这样的过程。
And it can't be linear forever.
而且它不可能永远是线性的。
Maybe in your first year of training, first 18 months, you're just going-- Like I put 20, 25 pounds on in the first 18 months that I was training, and natural as well.
也许在你训练的第一年，前 18 个月，你就会——就像我在训练的前 18 个月里增加了 20、25 磅一样，也是自然的。
So it becomes a case of diminishing returns, though.
不过，这变成了收益递减的情况。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And at some point, you can't just keep going up like this.
到了某个时候，你就不能再这样继续上升了。
So I tell people, train real hard for five or six weeks, and then come down for two weeks, maybe sub-maximal.
所以我告诉人们，认真训练五到六周，然后下降两周，也许是次最大训练。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
So you'll sort of sawtooth it like that.
所以你会像那样锯齿状。
Hard for five, six weeks-
辛苦了五六周——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
then back off.
然后退后。
And during that two weeks, are you telling people to stay out of the gym entirely?
在那两周内，您是否告诉人们完全不要去健身房？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No.
不。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I'm telling them you can go in and do some lightweight.
我告诉他们你可以进去做一些轻量级的运动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But nowhere near failure.
但离失败还差得很远。
Blood flow, keep the maintenance.
气血畅通，保持保养。
If you want to take a week off, I think it's good a couple of times a year.
如果你想休息一周，我认为一年几次就不错了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
A lot of guys, when I had a gym, the guys, "I'm stuck on this and that." I said, "Okay, take a week off."
很多人，当我有健身房时，他们，“我被这个那个困住了。”我说：“好吧，请假一周。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
"Wow, no. What do you mean?" I said, "Man, just take a week off, yeah.
“哇，不。你什么意思？”我说：“伙计，休息一周吧，是的。
Come back in a week and tell me how you feel." "Wow, and I came back and I was stronger." I was like, "Yeah, no shit, man."
一周后回来告诉我你的感受。” “哇，我回来了，我变得更强了。”我当时想，“是的，没什么，伙计。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So-
所以——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Because you've rested.
因为你已经休息了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You let your body rest and rebuild.
你让你的身体休息并重建。
So let me listen to you.
那么让我听听你的吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if I could travel back in time, I wouldn't have called the movie "Pumping Iron." I would've called it "Stress and Adapt."
所以，如果我能回到过去，我就不会把这部电影命名为“Pumping Iron”。我会把它称为“压力与适应”。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"Stress, Recover, Adapt."
“压力、恢复、适应”。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Not quite so sexy.
不太性感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Like, I feel like I'm coming-
就像，我感觉我来了——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly
正是如此
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
all the time.
一直。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But that whole notion of the pump, plus this idea that many hours in the gym is what's required, I think it kept a lot of the general public out of resistance training.
但是泵的整个概念，加上需要在健身房呆上很多时间的想法，我认为它使很多公众远离了阻力训练。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think now that's changed.
我想现在情况已经改变了。
And fortunately, because I think it is very beneficial.
幸运的是，因为我认为这是非常有益的。
If we could get a little granular about training and recovery, I think it'd be helpful for people.
如果我们能够更详细地了解训练和恢复，我认为这会对人们有所帮助。
I realize that you laid out the top contour really nicely.
我意识到你把顶部轮廓布置得非常好。
So for a person who's natural, not taking hormone replacement therapy-
所以对于一个自然的人来说，不接受激素替代疗法-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or anabolics, you think two, maybe three whole-body sessions to start out to learn the movements.
或者合成代谢，你会想到两次，也许三次全身训练来开始学习动作。
Is that doing one or two sets to failure?
做一到两组就失败了吗？
What does that look like for the raw beginner?
对于初学者来说这是什么样的？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
A raw beginner, first of all, you need to learn how to do the movements correctly before let's thinking about going to failure.
作为一个初学者，首先你需要学会如何正确地做动作，然后再考虑失败。
So it'll be a certain period of time learning to do the exercise correctly.
所以需要一段时间来学习如何正确地进行练习。
Put in some kind of idea in their head of what's going on.
让他们对正在发生的事情有某种想法。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
What do the pecs do?
胸肌有什么作用？
Bring your arms down and across the body.
将手臂放下并横跨身体。
What do your lats do?
你的背阔肌做什么？
They bring your upper arm down and back.
它们会将您的上臂向下和向后移动。
So you'd be amazed, even if you have to pro bodybuilders, some of them don't know why they're doing what they're doing.
所以你会感到惊讶，即使你必须是职业健美运动员，他们中的一些人也不知道他们为什么要做他们正在做的事情。
What's the mechanics involved?
涉及什么机制？
And I get them to do light sets, very perfect.
我让他们做灯光设置，非常完美。
Do you feel that?
你有这样的感觉吗？
Do you feel how it contracts when your lats and you squeeze and you contract the...
当你挤压你的背阔肌并且收缩你的背阔肌时，你感觉到它是如何收缩的吗？
Yeah, I feel it.
是的，我感觉到了。
I feel it.
我感觉到了。
Okay.
好的。
Now you've got it, but you've got to try to maintain that-
现在你已经得到了它，但你必须努力保持它-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
when it gets really hard, because we're going against the natural mechanics of the body here, right?
当它变得非常困难时，因为我们在这里违背了身体的自然力学，对吧？
Because as I say we're doing chest, yeah?
因为正如我所说，我们正在做胸部训练，是吗？
We're trying to isolate the pecs.
我们正在尝试隔离胸肌。
There's some delts involved and triceps, and work that, or we're working legs, we're working back.
有一些三角肌和三头肌参与其中，或者我们正在锻炼腿部，我们正在锻炼背部。
The body normally doesn't work like that.
身体通常不会这样运作。
It works as a unit, right?
它作为一个单元工作，对吗？
If you throw something, you don't do that from your tricep, right?
如果你扔东西，你不会用你的三头肌，对吧？
It'll be from your foot through the hips, through the shoulder, whole body thing.
它将从你的脚到臀部，到肩膀，整个身体。
So when the exercise gets really hard, your brain is going to try to recruit or change the exercise to make it easier.
因此，当练习变得非常困难时，您的大脑会尝试重新启动或改变练习以使其变得更容易。
So I got to get people to override that instinct.
所以我必须让人们克服这种本能。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Just stick with the form until we get to the point where you can't do anymore and understand.
只要坚持使用表格，直到我们达到您无法再做并理解的地步。
That's why I get them to do light stuff at first to really feel it, understand, I explain what's going on.
这就是为什么我一开始就让他们做一些轻松的事情，以便真正感受、理解，我解释发生了什么。
Couple of weeks after that, we can start pushing to failure.
几周后，我们就可以开始走向失败。
Actually, I had a guy recently that we had a business meeting, and he told me he was diabetic and he had liver problems, and he was overweight and this and that.
事实上，最近我有一个人，我们有一个商务会议，他告诉我他患有糖尿病，他有肝脏问题，而且他超重等等。
I gave him a challenge.
我给了他一个挑战。
I said, "You train with me for a month, I'll fix all that shit." "Oh, but my doctor this and that." I said, "Listen, you train with me three times a week for about 45 minutes." After one month, obviously, I changed his diet as well, basically for a short period of time, very low carbs.
我说：“你和我一起训练一个月，我会解决所有这些问题。” “哦，但是我的医生这个那个。”我说：“听着，你每周和我一起训练三次，每次大约 45 分钟。”显然，一个月后，我也改变了他的饮食习惯，基本上是在短时间内，非常低的碳水化合物。
After one month, he was not in a diabetic zone.
一个月后，他不再处于糖尿病区。
He was out of the pre-diabetic zone.
他已脱离糖尿病前期范围。
He was in the normal range.
他的情况属于正常范围。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And his liver function, that was three times the normal amount, liver enzymes, was back to normal.
他的肝功能（肝酶）是正常值的三倍，也恢复了正常。
I told him, "Check it out, you got a fatty liver." So, "Yeah, I had a fatty liver." I said, "I know." He said, "My doctor told me not to eat fat." I'm like, "Man, do you know how long," at least I don't know here, but in England, how long an MD, a doctor spends studying nutrition?
我告诉他：“检查一下，你得了脂肪肝。”所以，“是的，我有脂肪肝。”我说：“我知道。”他说：“我的医生告诉我不要吃脂肪。”我说，“伙计，你知道要花多长时间吗？”至少我在这里不知道，但在英国，医学博士、医生要花多长时间来研究营养学？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It's trivial in most places.
在大多数地方这都是微不足道的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
One afternoon.
一个下午。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
One afternoon, two or three hours.
一个下午，两三个小时。
You can learn nothing.
你什么也学不到。
So the doctor was telling him he's got a fatty liver, so stop eating fat.
所以医生告诉他他得了脂肪肝，所以不要再吃脂肪了。
I said, "That's absolutely the worst advice you could get."
我说：“这绝对是你能得到的最糟糕的建议。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's an insulin-
这是一种胰岛素——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Because the reason you've got fatty liver is because uncontrolled blood sugar.
因为你得脂肪肝的原因是血糖不受控制。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So we get your blood sugar down.
所以我们可以降低你的血糖。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
One month, his liver was normal, his blood sugar was normal.
一个月后，他的肝脏正常了，血糖也正常了。
He lost five, six kilos of body fat just in a month, and we're doing three times a week.
他在一个月内就减掉了五六公斤的体脂，而我们每周做三次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whole body?
全身？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
We split it up, actually-
我们把它分开了，实际上——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
into three workouts.
分为三项训练。
So he's hitting everything once a week.
所以他每周都会打一次。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When our mutual friend, you knew him better than I did.
当我们共同的朋友时，你比我更了解他。
The now deceased, unfortunately, Mike Mentzer, told me to train each body part once per week.
不幸的是，现已去世的迈克门泽告诉我每周训练每个身体部位一次。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
At first, I thought he was crazy.
起初，我以为他疯了。
So legs once a week, calves once a week, maybe twice for some people with the calves.
所以腿部每周一次，小腿每周一次，对于一些有小腿的人来说可能每周两次。
But, shoulders and arms and chest and back on three-
但是，肩膀、手臂、胸部和背部三点——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
separate days.
分开的日子。
Legs, chest, back, shoulders, and arms.
腿、胸部、背部、肩膀和手臂。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Great.
太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I thought he was crazy, but then, I thought about it, and the chest and back workout, you're indirectly targeting the arms.
我以为他疯了，但后来我想了想，胸部和背部的锻炼，你是间接针对手臂的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Legs is a, if you do them right, is a whole body experience.
如果你做得对的话，腿部是一种全身体验。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And a lot of stress on your nervous system-
你的神经系统承受很大的压力-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
which has to recover independently of the whatever muscle group you're training.
它必须独立于你正在训练的肌肉群而恢复。
If you do legs, really to failure-
如果你做腿，真的会失败-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
there's a lot of stress on your nervous system as well.
你的神经系统也承受很大的压力。
So that also has to recover.
所以这也必须恢复。
That's why I say after six weeks.
这就是为什么我说六周后。
I've just noticed with myself and many people, it seems to like you hit a plateau there.
我刚刚注意到我自己和很多人，似乎你已经达到了一个平台期。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So in trying to push through it, come down and I take a rest and go again later.
所以在努力克服它的过程中，我下来休息一下，稍后再去。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I know that your opinion on real world results versus laboratory studies, but these days, let me just put something out there.
所以我知道你对现实世界结果与实验室研究的看法，但现在，让我放一些东西。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to see your response.
我想看看你的回复。
These days, people will talk a lot about, okay, the studies or muscle biopsies show you train a muscle and stimulate hypertrophy growth, and then muscle protein synthesis peaks 48 hours later, which means that you can hit the muscle again, ideally three days later or two days later.
如今，人们会谈论很多，好吧，研究或肌肉活检显示你训练了肌肉并刺激肥大生长，然后肌肉蛋白质合成在 48 小时后达到峰值，这意味着你可以再次锻炼肌肉，最好是三天后或两天后。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I tried that because I thought, hey, listen, I'm a scientist, I'll try it.
我尝试过，因为我想，嘿，听着，我是一名科学家，我会尝试一下。
And I immediately started going backwards with my progress.
我立即开始倒退我的进步。
This was a few years ago.
这是几年前的事了。
And went back to training each thing directly once per week.
然后每周直接回去训练每件事一次。
And where there's indirect stuff, arms getting hit once indirectly because of a chest and back workout on a separate day, found I went right back to progress again.
如果有间接的事情，手臂因为另一天的胸部和背部锻炼而间接受到撞击，发现我又恢复了进步。
And so, I'm a scientist trained to do science.
所以，我是一名受过科学训练的科学家。
So how do you think about something where in a laboratory you can see something like protein synthesis peaks 48 hours later, therefore train every 72 hours, versus the real world phenomena?
那么，你如何看待在实验室中你可以看到 48 小时后蛋白质合成达到峰值，因此每 72 小时训练一次，与现实世界现象相比的情况？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It's all very interesting, but if it doesn't work in practicality, what's it worth?
这一切都很有趣，但如果没有实用性，那还有什么价值呢？
I hear this a lot now about this science-based training, but I actually don't know what science they're talking about.
我现在经常听到这种基于科学的培训，但我实际上不知道他们在谈论什么科学。
Some meta studies, I think.
我认为是一些元研究。
But how were those studies carried out?
但这些研究是如何进行的呢？
With whom and so on and so on.
和谁一起等等等等。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I know the Casey Viator study where he put on 65 pounds of muscle verified in a month-
我知道 Casey Viator 的研究证实他在一个月内增加了 65 磅的肌肉 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
by training less than about an hour a week, I think.
我认为每周训练时间少于大约一个小时。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was your whole body-
这是你的整个身体——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I think it was whole body stuff
我认为这是全身的东西
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
super slow sets to failure in this case
在这种情况下，超慢会导致失败
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And yes, he was very underweight because he wasn't on anything.
是的，他体重非常轻，因为他没有吃任何东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And then he got sick, so he was underweight.
然后他生病了，所以他体重不足。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So he's building back muscle, but he wouldn't build it back without much stimulus.
所以他正在锻炼背部肌肉，但如果没有太多刺激，他就不会恢复背部肌肉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So 65 pound of muscle, although it was muscle memory, let's say.
所以 65 磅的肌肉，尽管这是肌肉记忆，可以这么说。
He had been that big before, but he put it on-
他以前就这么大了，但他穿上了——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
in a month, and you compare that with Arnold, that Dieted down to 210, I think, to do this film, "Stay Hungry." Then he went back up to 230 for the Mr. Olympia, but that took him three months.
一个月后，你将其与阿诺德进行比较，我想，为了拍摄这部电影“保持饥饿”，阿诺德节食到了 210 磅。然后他又回到了 230 米以参加奥林匹亚先生比赛，但这花了他三个月的时间。
So you can compare the two.
所以你可以比较一下两者。
So when the people talk about these science-based studies, and you shouldn't train to failure, it's better to keep reps in reserve, I don't know which studies they're talking about.
因此，当人们谈论这些基于科学的研究时，你不应该训练到失败，最好保留代表，我不知道他们在谈论哪些研究。
I'm not saying they're not out there, but I'm not familiar with them.
我并不是说他们不存在，但我对他们不熟悉。
I'm not familiar with how they carried out the studies.
我不熟悉他们是如何进行研究的。
But if it doesn't work in practicality, does it really matter?
但如果它在实际中不起作用，那真的重要吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It doesn't matter.
没关系。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, often, I've spent some time with these, and you might not be surprised to learn that a lot of times it's, we got some college students, they're doing leg extensions.
嗯，我经常花一些时间做这些，你可能不会惊讶地发现，很多时候，我们有一些大学生，他们正在做腿部伸展运动。
We're looking at biopsies of the quadriceps, this kind of thing.
我们正在研究股四头肌的活组织检查，诸如此类。
Rarely is it the kind of compound movements, multi-joint movements.
很少是那种复合动作、多关节动作。
Sometimes, but not always.
有时，但并非总是如此。
Well, look, my experience with the HIT, high intensity, low-ish volume training has been, I'll say it's not just about gaining muscle.
好吧，看，我的 HIT、高强度、低训练量训练的经验是，我会说这不仅仅是为了增加肌肉。
I'm now 50.
我现在50岁了。
I know you're almost 64.
我知道你快 64 岁了。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yep.
是的。
Coming up.
即将到来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Looking amazing.
看起来棒极了。
You'll tell us more about longevity stuff in a bit.
稍后您会告诉我们更多有关长寿的内容。
But I have to say, part of it is also that if one trains the way that you're describing, each muscle once per week, focusing on intensity, not volume, and so forth, six weeks or so, then backing off for two weeks-
但我不得不说，部分原因是，如果一个人按照你描述的方式训练，每块肌肉每周一次，专注于强度，而不是体积，等等，六周左右，然后后退两周——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you also find that in your peer group, you're not the one always complaining about pain, and you have energy for other things, which we'll get back to.
你还会发现，在你的同侪群体中，你并不是那个总是抱怨痛苦的人，而且你还有精力做其他事情，我们稍后会讨论。
Unless you're a competitive bodybuilder, most people, including myself, need energy to tend to life and want to be able to enjoy, not be...
除非你是一名竞技健美运动员，否则大多数人，包括我自己，都需要能量来照顾生活，并希望能够享受，而不是……
It's not the soreness, it's the constant aches and pains that come from over-training, I think, that most people don't have to live with but think they do.
我认为，这不是酸痛，而是过度训练带来的持续的疼痛和痛苦，大多数人不必忍受，但认为他们必须忍受。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It depends on your goals, yeah?
这取决于你的目标，是吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But I really believe the average person, yeah, that wants to get health benefits from bodybuilding, weight training, resistance, whatever you want to call it, right?
但我真的相信普通人，是的，希望从健美、举重训练、抵抗力，无论你怎么称呼它，获得健康益处，对吧？
They have a guy that's 40 or 50 or 60, guy or a lady, whatever.
他们有一个 40 岁、50 岁或 60 岁的男人，男人或女人，等等。
The idea is, if you could, because you've lost muscle mass slowly, since maybe 1% a year since you're 40, right?
这个想法是，如果可以的话，因为你的肌肉质量正在缓慢流失，从 40 岁起每年可能会流失 1%，对吗？
And this is affecting your health, your metabolism, your ability to process sugar.
这会影响你的健康、你的新陈代谢、你处理糖的能力。
Many, many things, yeah?
很多很多事情，是吗？
Bone strength.
骨骼强度。
And the number one thing that I hear from people is, "I don't really have time for that.
我从人们那里听到的第一件事是，“我真的没有时间做这个。
I have a business.
我有生意。
I have a family." I said, "If you could give me 45 minutes twice a week, that's all you need to do." Okay, you need to eat properly and everything like that.
我有一个家庭。”我说：“如果你能给我每周两次 45 分钟的时间，那就够了。”好吧，你需要好好吃饭之类的。
But that's all you need to do for the average person.
但这就是普通人所需要做的一切。
If you took eight to 10 exercises that covered your whole body and you did it twice a week, that would be enough for the average person.
如果你进行8到10次覆盖全身的练习，并且每周进行两次，那么对于普通人来说就足够了。
One for chest, one or two for back, one or two for legs.
胸部一处，背部一两处，腿部一两处。
Hey, if you want to do some bicep curls and some triceps, you can do it, but you're doing pressing anyway.
嘿，如果你想做一些二头肌弯举和一些三头肌，你可以做，但无论如何你都在做推举。
So for the average person, that would actually be enough.
所以对于普通人来说，这实际上就足够了。
And it's not theory, because I've done it with people.
这不是理论，因为我已经和人一起做过了。
Like I'm saying, this gentleman that came along, we put 45 minutes in, nearly an hour, three times a week, because I had him doing cardio as well.
就像我说的，这位来的先生，我们每周 3 次，每周 3 次，总共 45 分钟，将近一个小时，因为我也让他做有氧运动。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Well, guess how long the cardio was?
好吧，猜猜有氧运动持续了多长时间？
Six minutes.
六分钟。
Six minutes.
六分钟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, but pedal hard.
是的，但是用力踩踏板。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
We're doing sprints.
我们正在进行冲刺。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Like on an AirBike.
就像乘坐空中自行车一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It's my favorite-
这是我最喜欢的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
because it engages every muscle.
因为它调动了每一块肌肉。
Push, pull, legs.
推、拉、腿。
If you do a 20-second all out-
如果你做20秒的全力以赴
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
and you can see how you got on the side of the thing, you can see how much watts you're generating.
你可以看到你如何站在事物的一边，你可以看到你产生了多少瓦特。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So now you have a target-
所以现在你有一个目标——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
to hit or exceed every time.
每次都达到或超过。
So do a minute, minute and a half warm up, whatever.
所以，做一分钟、一分半钟的热身，无论如何。
Feel warm, all out, balls out like the devil's chasing you, for 20 seconds.
感觉温暖、全力以赴，就像魔鬼在追赶你一样，持续 20 秒。
First one's tough, but eh, it's okay.
第一个很难，但是呃，没关系。
Go down slowly for a minute.
慢慢下降一分钟。
Do the second one all out.
全力完成第二个。
The second one's really tough, yeah?
第二个真的很难，是吗？
The third one is, I've never met anybody that wants to do one after the third one, yeah?
第三个是，我从来没有遇到过任何人愿意在第三个之后再做一个，是吗？
Because literally you can't breathe.
因为实际上你无法呼吸。
And the benefits from that, again, I think there's a book called "The One Minute Cardio." It's a bit tricky because it's not really one minute.
再说一次，我认为有一本叫做“一分钟有氧运动”的书。这有点棘手，因为实际上不是一分钟。
It's one minute of sprints-
这是一分钟的冲刺——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
but it's six minutes in total, and they compared that to 45 minutes of steady cardio on a treadmill or whatever it is.
但总共是 6 分钟，他们将其与在跑步机或其他任何东西上进行的 45 分钟稳定有氧运动进行了比较。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And the results are more or less the same.
结果或多或少是相同的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So, what do you want to do?
那么，你想做什么？
Do you want to spend six minutes or do you want to spend 45 minutes?
你想花 6 分钟还是 45 分钟？
I'd rather do the six minutes.
我宁愿做六分钟。
I do a bit of long cardio as well myself, because I like biking in the mountains and stuff.
我自己也做了一些长时间的有氧运动，因为我喜欢在山里骑自行车之类的。
But if you did that twice a week, along with some weight training, that would be amazing.
但如果你每周做两次，再加上一些重量训练，那就太棒了。
You change your life, literally, with that and a good diet.
从字面上看，你可以通过这一点和良好的饮食来改变你的生活。
So, the whole time thing, excuses, it's not relevant.
所以，一直以来的事情，借口，都是不相关的。
I'm not listening.
我不听。
You don't need a lot of time.
你不需要很多时间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, what I love about you is that you've done things at the ultra-elite level within bodybuilding, but the advice that you're giving right now is very practical for the everyday person.
嗯，我喜欢你的一点是，你在健美运动中达到了超精英水平，但你现在给出的建议对于普通人来说非常实用。
And I'm not a psychologist, but I'm going to venture a hypothesis here, which is that some of that has to do with the fact that you grew up blue-collar background, from Birmingham, working full time while building out your bodybuilding career.
我不是心理学家，但我想在这里提出一个假设，其中一些与你在伯明翰的蓝领背景下长大，在全职工作的同时建立你的健美事业有关。
You didn't come to it with a briefcase full of cash and-
你不是带着装满现金的公文包来的，而且——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
No
否
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
have the opportunity to just say, "Oh, how much training can you do?
有机会直接说：“哦，你能做多少训练？
Well, let's figure it out." You had to be very practical.
好吧，我们想办法吧。”你必须非常实际。
And my guess is that you had to be very practical about recovery and nutrition as well.
我的猜测是，你在恢复和营养方面也必须非常务实。
You probably, I'm guessing there was a point in your life where you couldn't afford grass-fed meat shipped in from-
我猜你可能在你生命中的某个阶段买不起从-运来的草饲肉
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
No
否
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
south of France, and this guy.
法国南部，还有这个家伙。
I'm not saying you do that now, but-
我不是说你现在就这么做，但是——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Let me tell you a story, man.
让我告诉你一个故事，伙计。
When I was British Champion, that was a big thing back then, British Champion, right?
当我成为英国冠军时，那是一件大事，英国冠军，对吧？
3,000 people in the audience, packed out.
全场三千人，座无虚席。
We had buses coming from my gym, all this stuff, air horns.
我们有从我的健身房开来的公共汽车，所有这些东西，气喇叭。
British bodybuilding crowds are not like, they're pretty rowdy, they're not-
英国健美人群并不像，他们相当吵闹，他们不是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think the Brits around any sport-
我认为英国人对任何运动——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
They're too quiet over here
他们这里太安静了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
get pretty rowdy.
变得很吵闹。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
They're pretty rowdy.
他们非常吵闹。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
If you see boxing in Vegas and there's a British fighter, they take over the whole place.
如果你在维加斯看到拳击比赛，并且有一名英国拳击手，他们就会占领整个地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So anyway, this great accolade, I'm British Champion now.
不管怎样，这个伟大的荣誉，我现在是英国冠军了。
And I went home.
我就回家了。
I got no car.
我没有车。
I'm living in a council estate.
我住在议会大厦里。
It's like projects.
这就像项目。
Council estate.
议会庄园。
I got no carpet in my bedroom.
我的卧室里没有地毯。
I don't even have a proper bed.
我连一张合适的床都没有。
I just got a mattress.
我刚买了一个床垫。
Yeah.
是的。
I got a TV that barely works, and I got a trophy.
我得到了一台几乎不能用的电视，我得到了一个奖杯。
I'm like, "Wow, look, I'm British Champion," but nobody gives a fuck really.
我想，“哇，看，我是英国冠军，”但没有人真正在乎。
I do, and the people that's in the bodybuilding community, but this hasn't translated into anything yet.
我和健美界的人们都这样做，但这还没有转化为任何东西。
It took me about five years of really 100% dedication for me to turn pro.
我花了大约五年的时间100%投入才成为职业选手。
And the ironic thing is, I guess, when you're starting and you got nothing, nobody's very interested and nobody wants to help you.
我想，具有讽刺意味的是，当你开始时却一无所获，没有人对此很感兴趣，也没有人愿意帮助你。
When you become successful, then people want to help you because they want to help themselves, which is fair enough.
当你成功时，人们会想帮助你，因为他们想帮助自己，这是很公平的。
It's a transaction.
这是一笔交易。
But until then, no. So, I got my first car when I was 25.
但在那之前，没有。所以，我在25岁时拥有了第一辆车。
All my friends were driving 18, 19.
我所有的朋友都18、19岁开车。
But the funny thing is, I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything.
但有趣的是，我并没有觉得自己错过了什么。
I knew I was on this mission, and this in itself was so powerful.
我知道我肩负着这个使命，而这本身就是如此强大。
Nobody else had that.
其他人都没有这样的经历。
I had this mission that I was doing, which was to change my life, basically, and bodybuilding was the vehicle.
我正在做的使命是改变我的生活，基本上，健美就是媒介。
And I think something that really helped me is I'm an avid reader.
我认为真正对我有帮助的是我是一个狂热的读者。
I have been since I was about 10 years old, and I can take in a lot of information on a subject if I'm very interested.
我从大约10岁起就开始了，如果我很感兴趣的话，我可以吸收很多关于某个主题的信息。
I'll almost get obsessed with it for a while, and then I might just say, "Oh, forget about that," and go interested in something else.
我几乎会沉迷于它一段时间，然后我可能会说，“哦，忘了这个吧”，然后对其他事情感兴趣。
So, all the guys that I was training with, they were just watching videos and listening to other guys in the gym.
所以，所有和我一起训练的人，他们只是看视频，听健身房里其他人的讲话。
I was reading Mike Mentzer, I was reading Arthur Jones.
我在读迈克·门泽尔的书，我在读阿瑟·琼斯的书。
I was trying to figure it out for myself, which means you need a very independent kind of personality.
我试图自己解决这个问题，这意味着你需要一种非常独立的个性。
So, yeah, let me try do a bit more.
所以，是的，让我尝试多做一点。
Doesn't work, finished.
没用，完了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And the fact that I've got all this, every single workout from 1983 to 1997 written down, all the diets.
事实上，我已经把所有这些，从 1983 年到 1997 年的每一次锻炼，所有的饮食都写下来了。
Later on when I'm using anabolics, what I'm using and how long and all this stuff so I could analyze it.
后来当我使用合成代谢药物时，我正在使用什么以及使用多长时间以及所有这些东西，以便我可以对其进行分析。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
See what's working and what's not working.
查看哪些有效，哪些无效。
A lot of guys were shooting in the dark, hoping they're going to hit something, but they don't.
很多人在黑暗中射击，希望能击中目标，但他们没有。
And I didn't have time to waste.
我没有时间可以浪费。
This was a mission.
这是一个使命。
I didn't have skills, I didn't have a family, all this stuff.
我没有技能，没有家庭，所有这些。
So, bodybuilding was my road to change my life.
所以，健美是我改变生活的道路。
Where it was going at first, I didn't know, but I knew it was going somewhere.
一开始我不知道它要去哪里，但我知道它要去某个地方。
I knew I could be very good at it.
我知道我可以非常擅长。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Did you have the sense, even before all this, that perhaps you were different or that you were destined to pursue something?
即使在这一切发生之前，你是否已经感觉到，也许你与众不同，或者你注定要追求某些东西？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
From the-
从-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I always knew.
我一直都知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What was your earliest recollection of knowing that you were going to aspire to some very high peak?
当你知道自己将渴望登上某个高峰时，你最早的记忆是什么？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Well, the first thing I was into was Bruce Lee, right?
嗯，我第一个喜欢的是李小龙，对吧？
So, Bruce Lee, and even I was impressed with his physique then.
所以，李小龙，甚至我当时都对他的体格印象深刻。
But now I look, compared to a bodybuilder, it's very lean, but the abs and everything.
但现在我看，与健美运动员相比，它非常瘦，但是腹肌什么的。
I had that poster on the wall, with the cuts down there and everything.
我把那张海报挂在墙上，上面有剪裁等等。
So, I was doing push-ups.
所以，我在做俯卧撑。
Just at my last year at school, I started getting bodybuilding magazines and doing a bit of weight training.
就在我在学校的最后一年，我开始阅读健美杂志并进行一些重量训练。
So, there was that then.
所以，当时就有了。
I left home at 16, and I just didn't have the lifestyle to pursue it.
我16岁就离家出走，但我没有合适的生活方式去追求它。
And for some reason, I'm not doing this.
由于某种原因，我不会这样做。
I said, "I'm not doing this until I can do it properly." And I always knew I was different, I guess.
我说：“在我能做好之前我不会这样做。”我想我一直都知道我与众不同。
But I didn't know why, and I didn't know where it was going, but I knew it was going somewhere.
但我不知道为什么，也不知道它要去哪里，但我知道它要去某个地方。
And it's a strange feeling through my whole process.
在我的整个过程中，这是一种奇怪的感觉。
I feel like I've done it before, almost.
我感觉我以前几乎已经做过了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Like it was destined, like it wasn't a surprise.
就像是命中注定一样，又好像这并不意外。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And the earlier years, it's like I just knew I got to just put everything into this.
早些年，我就知道我必须把一切都投入其中。
I got to put everything into this, and I can't let anything distract me.
我必须全力以赴，不能让任何事情分散我的注意力。
100% into this.
100%投入于此。
So yeah, I knew I was destined for something, and when I started doing bodybuilding, I was like, "Ah, so this is it." Yeah.
所以，是的，我知道我注定要做什么，当我开始健美时，我想，“啊，就是这样。”是的。
I don't know if you heard the story, but I got in a little bit of trouble.
我不知道你是否听说过这个故事，但我遇到了一点麻烦。
It wasn't...
原来不是...
Just rowdy guys, really.
只是吵闹的家伙，真的。
We got picked up on the street at the wrong time because there were some street riots in Birmingham, which we weren't involved with, but wrong place, wrong time.
我们在错误的时间在街上被抓到，因为伯明翰发生了一些街头骚乱，我们没有参与其中，但错误的地点、错误的时间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Got sent to a detention center, and in there they had weights, and there was 300 guys, and I was nearly the strongest guy in there.
我被送到拘留中心，那里有举重，有 300 个人，我几乎是那里最强壮的人。
The only guy who was stronger than me was like 50, 60 pounds heavier, and I was really lean.
唯一比我强壮的人大约重了50、60磅，而且我真的很瘦。
I had abs and everything.
我有腹肌什么的。
Everyone was like, "Wow, the physique." Even the prison officers in there were like, "You should do something with this." I said, "Don't worry, I'm going to." So, that was another one, like, "Hey-
每个人都说：“哇，这身材。”连监狱里的狱警都说：“你应该对此做点什么。”我说：“别担心，我会的。”所以，这是另一件事，就像，“嘿-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
you've got something here." There was a crossroads here, and I was like, "I never want to be in a place like this again and lose my freedom." But you literally become a number, and you're told when to get up and when to do this, and-
你这里有东西。”这里有一个十字路口，我想，“我再也不想在这样的地方失去自由了。”但你实际上变成了一个数字，你被告知什么时候起床，什么时候这样做，然后——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Those places suck.
那些地方很糟糕。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And I saw people in there that I knew they were destined to, this is their life.
我在那里看到了我知道他们命中注定的人，这就是他们的生活。
Even if they didn't care.
即使他们不在乎。
"Yeah, I know, but I don't give a fuck.
“是的，我知道，但我不在乎。
I might be in jail, but this is just the life I've chosen." Well, good luck with that, man.
我可能会进监狱，但这只是我选择的生活。”好吧，祝你好运，伙计。
It's not for me.
这不适合我。
So, that again, was like, "Hey, you need to do something with this." And, when I left there, I didn't start training.
所以，这又像是，“嘿，你需要对此做点什么。”而且，当我离开那里时，我并没有开始训练。
I was like, "I got to get a job.
我当时想，“我必须找到一份工作。
I got to get an apartment.
我得买一套公寓。
I got to get stability." And when I did, I was like, "Right.
我必须获得稳定。”当我这样做时，我想，“对。
I'll start my bodybuilding journey, write it down today, the date." I still got it, man.
我将开始我的健美之旅，写下今天的日期。”我还是明白了，伙计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's in those notebooks?
那些笔记本里有什么？
Everything from what you did for a warmup, how you felt going into there?
从你热身时所做的一切，到进入那里感觉如何？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
All the sets and reps, warmup, how I was feeling that day.
所有的组数、次数、热身，以及我那天的感受。
Some days, I was feeling overtrained and tired.
有时候，我感到训练过度和疲倦。
Even though I was training three days a week, sometimes I had to back off the intensity because of work and stuff like that.
尽管我每周训练三天，但有时由于工作之类的原因，我不得不降低强度。
But how I was feeling and it's interesting if I look at my books over the years, the first ones are quite childish, got these little, "Go for it," "Mass and power."
但如果我看看这些年来我的书，我的感受如何，很有趣，第一批书相当幼稚，只有这些小内容，“加油”，“群众与权力”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Kind of cool, too.
也有点酷。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm glad actually you mentioned that.
我很高兴你确实提到了这一点。
I've kept training logs inspired by you and by Mike for many years, and Getting to read that kind of stuff, the kind of silly stuff-
多年来，我一直在你和迈克的启发下保留训练日志，并开始阅读这类东西，那种愚蠢的东西——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it captures the spirit of it at the time.
它抓住了当时的精神。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Not only that, I would forget half of the stuff that I did if I hadn't documented it.
不仅如此，如果我没有记录下来，我会忘记我所做的一半事情。
Even now, my guys on social media was like, "When were you doing this exercise?
即使是现在，我的朋友们在社交媒体上也会说，“你什么时候做这个练习的？
And when did you change to this one?" I'm like, "I don't know, man.
你什么时候变成这个的？”我说，“我不知道，伙计。
I'll have to go back and look." And sometimes it's not as I thought it was when I go back.
我得回去看看。”有时，当我回去时，情况并不像我想象的那样。
It was a little bit different.
有点不同。
So it's great that I got all that written down and documented.
所以很高兴我把所有这些都写下来并记录下来。
And I used to have every month a review-
我以前每个月都会有一次回顾-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
where I'm at, and the goals for the next month.
我现在的处境，以及下个月的目标。
Try to make them realistic, but have goals in mind for the next month.
尽量让它们切合实际，但要牢记下个月的目标。
So-
所以——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Super methodical
超级有条理
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Very methodical-
非常有条理——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
analytical, logic.
分析、逻辑。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you get that from one of your parents or to go in the opposite direction of your parents?
你是从你的父母之一那里得到这一点，还是朝着与你父母相反的方向发展？
What's the-
这是什么-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Well, my mother was actually quite very educated.
嗯，我的母亲实际上受过很好的教育。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
She was private school and everything, but my dad was very working class, car mechanic and everything.
她是私立学校什么的，但我父亲是工人阶级，汽车修理工什么的。
But he managed to-
但他设法——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Perfect combo
完美组合
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, he managed to...
是的，他设法...
I was young.
我还年轻。
I lost my father at 13 from a heart attack.
我13岁时父亲因心脏病去世。
But he was a working-class guy that managed to buy a small farm.
但他是一个工人阶级，设法买下了一个小农场。
He managed to learn to fly an airplane.
他设法学会了驾驶飞机。
I went out with my dad when I was four or five years old.
我四五岁的时候就和爸爸出去玩了。
He was flying little four-seat Cessnas and everything like that.
他驾驶的是小型四座塞斯纳斯飞机以及诸如此类的飞机。
So, he must have been a smart guy and very driven to be able to do that as a working-class guy.
所以，他一定是一个聪明的人，并且非常有动力能够作为一个工薪阶层的人做到这一点。
Imagine back in the 1970s flying airplanes, and you work as a maintenance engineer at the Rover plant or something.
想象一下 20 世纪 70 年代的飞机，您在 Rover 工厂或其他工厂担任维护工程师。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I think for Americans, they don't realize how stratified the class system in England-
是的，我认为对于美国人来说，他们没有意识到英国的阶级制度有多么分层-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
was in that time.
就是在那个时候。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's very different.
这是非常不同的。
Very, very different.
非常非常不同。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
A working-class guy flying an airplane.
一个驾驶飞机的工人阶级。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
There was nobody else doing that.
没有其他人这样做。
So he must have been a guy above average intelligence, and my mom was as well.
所以他一定是一个智力高于平均水平的人，我妈妈也是。
So I probably got the logical stuff from my dad, I would say.
所以我想说，我可能从我父亲那里得到了合乎逻辑的东西。
My mom's more female, more emotional.
我妈妈比较女性化，比较情绪化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
My dad was probably very logical in his ways and an engineer.
我的父亲可能是一位非常有逻辑性的工程师。
Engineering's about numbers and everything.
工程与数字和一切有关。
So, a lot of people ask me, "What happened if you did not lose your father when you were 13?" Dorian Yates, the bodybuilder, probably wouldn't exist.
所以，很多人问我，“如果你13岁时没有失去父亲，会发生什么？”健美运动员多里安·耶茨（Dorian Yates）可能不会存在。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Because if life's comfortable, you won't put yourself through this shit, man.
因为如果生活很舒适，你就不会让自己经历这些狗屎，伙计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, amen to that.
是的，阿门。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It's a lot of work, a lot of dedication, a lot of sacrifice, and over many, many years.
这是大量的工作、大量的奉献、大量的牺牲，并且持续了很多很多年。
It's not a short-term thing.
这不是短期的事情。
To get from starting bodybuilding to be a pro bodybuilder took me seven years, and that was quick.
从开始健美到成为一名职业健美运动员，我花了七年的时间，而且速度很快。
That was relatively quick.
那是相对较快的。
So seven years of absolute, "This is my main focus of life.
所以七年绝对，“这是我生活的主要焦点。
This is what I'm doing for seven years to get to be a pro." And then it was seven years as a pro as well.
这就是我花了七年时间成为一名职业选手所做的事情。”然后，我也做了七年的职业选手。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
By now, I'm sure that many of you have heard me say that I've been taking AG1 for more than a decade, and indeed, that's true.
到现在为止，我相信你们很多人都听我说过我服用 AG1 已有十多年了，确实如此。
The reason I started taking AG1 way back in 2012, and the reason why I still continue to take it every single day, is because AG1 is, to my knowledge, the highest quality and most comprehensive of the foundational nutritional supplements on the market.
我早在 2012 年就开始服用 AG1，并且至今仍然每天服用，因为据我所知，AG1 是市场上质量最高、最全面的基础营养补充剂。
What that means is that it contains not just vitamins and minerals, but also probiotics, prebiotics, and adaptogens to cover any gaps that you might have in your diet while also providing support for a demanding life.
这意味着它不仅含有维生素和矿物质，还含有益生菌、益生元和适应原，可以弥补您饮食中可能存在的任何空白，同时也为高要求的生活提供支持。
Given the probiotics and prebiotics in AG1, it also helps support a healthy gut microbiome.
鉴于 AG1 中的益生菌和益生元，它还有助于支持健康的肠道微生物组。
The gut microbiome consists of trillions of little microorganisms that line your digestive tract and impact things such as your immune status, your metabolic health, your hormone health, and much more.
肠道微生物组由数万亿个小微生物组成，它们排列在您的消化道中，并影响您的免疫状态、代谢健康、激素健康等。
Taking AG1 consistently helps my digestion, keeps my immune system strong, and it ensures that my mood and mental focus are always at their best.
持续服用 AG1 有助于我的消化，保持我的免疫系统强大，并确保我的情绪和精神焦点始终处于最佳状态。
AG1 is now available in three new flavors: berry, citrus, and tropical.
AG1 现已推出三种新口味：浆果味、柑橘味和热带味。
And while I've always loved the AG1 original flavor, especially with a bit of lemon juice added, I'm really enjoying the new berry flavor in particular.
虽然我一直很喜欢 AG1 原味，尤其是添加了一点柠檬汁，但我真的特别喜欢新的浆果味。
It tastes great, but then again, I do love all the flavors.
味道很棒，但话又说回来，我确实喜欢所有的口味。
If you'd like to try AG1 and try these new flavors, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1 并尝试这些新口味，您可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 申请特别优惠。
Right now, AG1 is giving away six free sample packs of AGZ, which is AG1's new sleep formula, which, by the way, is fantastic.
现在，AG1 正在免费赠送六包 AGZ 样品包，这是 AG1 的新睡眠配方，顺便说一句，非常棒。
It's the only sleep supplement I take.
这是我唯一服用的睡眠补充剂。
It eliminates the need for all these pills, and my sleep has never been better.
它消除了对所有这些药物的需要，而且我的睡眠从未如此好过。
The special offer gives you six free samples of that AGZ, as well as three AG1 travel packs and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your first subscription.
特别优惠为您提供 6 个 AGZ 的免费样品，以及 3 个 AG1 旅行包和一瓶维生素 D3 K2。
Just go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get started.
只需访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 即可开始。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Our Place.
今天的节目也是由我们的地方给我们带来的。
Our Place makes my favorite pots, pans, and other cookware.
我们的地方生产我最喜欢的锅、平底锅和其他炊具。
Surprisingly, toxic compounds such as PFAS or forever chemicals are still found in 80% of non-stick pans, as well as utensils, appliances, and countless other kitchen products.
令人惊讶的是，80% 的不粘锅以及餐具、电器和无数其他厨房产品中仍然含有 PFAS 或永久化学物质等有毒化合物。
As I've discussed before on this podcast, these PFAS or forever chemicals like Teflon, have been linked to major health issues such as hormone disruption, gut microbiome disruption, fertility issues, and many other health problems.
正如我之前在这个播客中讨论过的那样，这些 PFAS 或永久性化学物质（如特氟隆）与激素紊乱、肠道微生物群破坏、生育问题和许多其他健康问题等重大健康问题有关。
So it's very important to avoid them.
因此，避免它们非常重要。
This is why I'm a huge fan of Our Place.
这就是为什么我是《我们的地方》的超级粉丝。
Our Place products are made with the highest quality materials and are all PFAS and toxin-free.
我们的 Place 产品采用最优质的材料制成，不含 PFAS 和毒素。
I particularly love their Titanium Always Pan Pro.
我特别喜欢他们的 Titanium Always Pan Pro。
It's the first non-stick pan made with zero chemicals and zero coating.
这是第一个采用零化学品和零涂层制成的不粘锅。
Instead, it uses pure titanium.
相反，它使用纯钛。
This means it has no harmful forever chemicals and does not degrade or lose its non-stick effect over time.
这意味着它不含永久有害的化学物质，并且不会随着时间的推移而降解或失去其不粘效果。
It's also beautiful to look at.
看起来也很漂亮。
I cook eggs in my Titanium Always Pan Pro almost every morning.
我几乎每天早上都会用 Titanium Always Pan Pro 煮鸡蛋。
The design allows for the eggs to cook perfectly without sticking to the pan.
该设计使鸡蛋能够完美烹饪而不会粘在锅上。
I also cook burgers and steaks in it, and it always puts a really nice sear on the meat.
我还用它来做汉堡和牛排，它总是能让肉有很好的烤焦效果。
But again, nothing sticks to it, so it's really easy to clean, and it's even dishwasher safe.
但同样，没有任何东西粘在上面，所以它非常容易清洁，甚至可以用洗碗机清洗。
I love it, and I use it constantly.
我喜欢它，并且经常使用它。
Our Place now has a full line of Titanium Pro cookware that uses the first of its kind titanium non-stick technology.
我们的地方现在拥有全系列 Titanium Pro 炊具，采用同类首创的钛不粘技术。
So if you're looking for non-toxic, long-lasting pots and pans, go to fromourplace.com/huberman and use the code Huberman.
因此，如果您正在寻找无毒、耐用的锅碗瓢盆，请访问 fromourplace.com/huberman 并使用代码 Huberman。
With a 100-day risk-free trial, free shipping, and free returns, you can try Our Place with zero risk, and you can see why more than one million people have made the switch to Our Place kitchenware.
通过 100 天无风险试用、免费送货和免费退货，您可以零风险试用 Our Place，您就会明白为什么超过一百万人已改用 Our Place 厨具。
I have two questions, one practical, one more related to your personal story.
我有两个问题，一个是实际问题，另一个与你的个人故事相关。
The practical one is one, nowadays, there's an almost obsession online of young guys, teens, 20s, 30s, who immediately think they should be on testosterone enhancement, TRT, going beyond TRT, getting on gear.
实际的一个是，如今，网上有一种近乎痴迷的年轻人、青少年、20 岁、30 岁的人，他们立即认为自己应该增强睾酮、TRT，超越 TRT，开始行动。
How long-- Gear, for the folks that don't know, is verbiage for steroids.
多久——对于那些不知道的人来说，Gear 是类固醇的术语。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
TRT, testosterone replacement therapy, lower dosages designed to bring things into upper normal range, in some cases, a little higher.
TRT，睾酮替代疗法，较低的剂量旨在使事物达到正常范围上限，在某些情况下，更高一点。
From the time you picked up a weight, maybe in this youth detention-
从你拾起体重的那一刻起，也许在这青春禁闭里——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
center, until the first time you went on gear, how long was that, and how much did you achieve doing the sorts of training you were talking about before?
中心，直到您第一次上装备为止，持续了多长时间？通过您之前谈论的各种训练，您取得了多少成果？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I want to separate this out from the competitive-
我想把它从竞争中区分开来——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
phase.
阶段。
In part because, frankly, I think, and I've been very open, I'm on low dose TRT.
坦率地说，我认为部分原因是我正在接受低剂量的 TRT，而且我一直非常开放。
I started when I was 45, about 125 milligrams a week.
我从 45 岁开始服用，每周大约 125 毫克。
Okay.
好的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
We're-
我们是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Same as you
和你一样
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
on point with that.
就这一点而言。
The same.
一样的。
We discussed that.
我们对此进行了讨论。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, same as you.
是的，和你一样。
But I always tell people, they really, really, really should wait, if do it at all.
但我总是告诉人们，如果真的要这么做的话，他们真的、真的、真的应该等待。
How long did you have without anything?
你有多久没有任何事情了？
Where it's-
它在哪里——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Okay
好的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
food, training, sleep, maybe some supplements like some creatine, some protein powder.
食物、训练、睡眠，也许还有一些补充剂，比如肌酸、蛋白粉。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Right.
对。
So I started in '83, earlier in the year.
所以我从 83 年早些时候开始。
I was 180, 185, but very lean.
我当时180、185，但是很瘦。
You can see some pictures of me after six months training.
你可以看到我训练六个月后的一些照片。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, you have those thick joints.
嗯，你的关节很粗。
You have an athletic-
你有一个运动天赋——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
I got very low body fat as well, naturally.
当然，我的体脂也很低。
My son and my daughter, they both had abs when they were 11 years old.
我的儿子和女儿，他们11岁时就有了腹肌。
Very lean, pale skin, low body fat, thin skin type of thing.
非常瘦，皮肤白，体脂低，皮肤薄。
So you wouldn't say, "Wow, look at that guy, he's big," but you would say, "Wow, he's really cut, this guy." That's how I started, 180.
所以你不会说，“哇，看看那个家伙，他很大”，但你会说，“哇，这个家伙真的很帅。”我就是这样开始的，180。
So, after six months, I think I was 195, and the gym owner put on a contest in Birmingham, local gym thing, and he was like, "Come on, go in a contest." And I'm like, "Ah, I don't know." Okay.
所以，六个月后，我想我已经 195 岁了，健身房老板在伯明翰举办了一场当地健身房的比赛，他说，“来吧，参加比赛。”我说：“啊，我不知道。”好的。
So I went in, no diet, no steroids, nothing.
所以我进去了，没有节食，没有类固醇，什么都没有。
It was the first time as contest.
这是第一次作为竞赛。
I still got the pictures, but the two guys that I was competing against, they came second and third, I won.
我仍然保留着照片，但是与我竞争的两个人，他们获得了第二名和第三名，我赢了。
But both these guys were already on stuff.
但这两个人都已经开始行动了。
So I was able to beat them not using anything, right?
所以我不用任何东西就能打败他们，对吗？
Because genetically, I'm better, I guess.
因为从基因上来说，我想我更好。
I'm not saying in six months, I overtook them.
我并不是说六个月内我就超越了他们。
I probably started ahead of them.
我可能比他们先开始。
So that was with nothing.
所以那是一无所有。
I got up to 210.
我已经到了210了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So I'm just looking back, because we did some social media posts with my early training, yeah.
所以我只是回顾过去，因为我们在早期训练中发布了一些社交媒体帖子，是的。
So I'm benching three plates a side for like three or four reps, and I want to go now into the IFBB and compete.
所以我每侧坐三个板，重复三到四次，我现在想进入 IFBB 参加比赛。
Which I know everybody's using, right?
我知道每个人都在使用，对吧？
So I was 210 when I decided I'm going to do this competition, and I did some DBOL, 20 milligrams a day for about six weeks, and I switched to Anavar for the contest.
所以当我决定参加这次比赛时，我已经 210 岁了，我做了一些 DBOL，每天 20 毫克，持续了大约六周，然后我改用 Anavar 来参加比赛。
So I went from 180 to 210, so that's 30 pounds I put on in a year and a half training or something.
所以我从 180 减到了 210，也就是说我在一年半的训练中增加了 30 磅。
Then I decided to do the competition.
然后我决定参加比赛。
So in six weeks, I think, on 20 milligrams of DBOL, I went to like 230.
因此，我想，在 6 周内，服用 20 毫克 DBOL，我的体重就达到了 230 毫克。
It was a big boost in six weeks, but I already put on 30 pounds without anything.
六周内我的体重有了很大的提升，但我什么都没做就已经增加了 30 磅。
And for me, it was always like, I'm going to do competitive bodybuilding, and I intend to make a career out of it, so I just want to be on the same playing field as everybody else.
对我来说，我总是想，我要参加竞技健美比赛，我打算以此为职业，所以我只想和其他人一样在同一个赛场上。
So I won the novice competition in the IFBB, and everyone was freaking out.
所以我赢得了 IFBB 的新手比赛，每个人都吓坏了。
The guy who was the head of the federation, who's also a judge at the Mr. Olympia, and some other guys came backstage and said, "Where the hell have you come from?
那个担任联合会主席的家伙，同时也是奥林匹亚先生大赛的评委，还有其他几个家伙来到后台说道：“你们到底是从哪里来的？
And why are you in the novice competition?" I said, "Well, I'm from Birmingham, and it's my first competition in the federation, so I start at the bottom and work." "You're probably better than our best heavyweight." I'm like, "No, come on." And they were laughing like, "This kid is like...
你为什么参加新手比赛？”我说，“嗯，我来自伯明翰，这是我在联盟的第一次比赛，所以我从底层开始工作。”“你可能比我们最好的重量级选手更好。”我说，“不，来吧。”他们笑着说，“这个孩子就像......
We want you to join the British team in two weeks' time at the World Games," which is world championship.
我们希望你能在两周后加入英国队参加世界运动会，”这是世界锦标赛。
So I went from a novice, two weeks later, to competing in the World Games against Berry DeMay, who became a top Olympian, Matt Mendenhall, who was the best amateur in USA at the time, and I got seventh place there.
所以两周后，我从一个新手开始参加世界运动会，对手是贝里·德梅（Berry DeMay），他成为了顶级奥运会选手，马特·门登霍尔（Matt Mendenhall），他是当时美国最好的业余选手，我在那里获得了第七名。
And I remember, I basically spent out all my funds to get ready for this contest.
我记得，为了准备这次比赛，我基本上花光了所有的资金。
I had nothing left.
我已经一无所有了。
I had to buy a tracksuit, tanning lotion.
我不得不买一套运动服、晒黑乳液。
I was earning very little money, so this took all my money and I'm broke.
我挣的钱很少，所以这花了我所有的钱，我破产了。
And I had to ask my brother-in-law, "Can you lend me 20 pounds because I need to do this and get a taxi to the team selection?"
我不得不问我的姐夫，“你能借给我 20 英镑吗？因为我需要做这件事并打车去球队选拔？”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Right?
对吗？
So I went to the team selection.
于是我就去参加了球队选拔。
I got picked, but I was amongst all these guys, and I'm thinking, "I just borrowed some money to get here." But they picked me for the World Games team.
我被选中了，但我也在这些人之中，我在想，“我只是借了一些钱才来到这里。”但他们选择我加入世运队。
So I went quite uniquely, I think, from a novice competition to a world championship in two weeks.
所以我认为，我在两周内从新手比赛变成了世界冠军，这是非常独特的。
So that's-
所以那就是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
the level I was at when I first started competing.
我刚开始比赛时的水平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't want to put words into your mouth, but do you think it's fair to say that for people who are not going to pursue competitive bodybuilding, that it's probably best to explore how far they can go with their training and good nutrition, and perhaps even without hormone replacement until they really need it or later?
我不想对你说这些话，但你认为这样说公平吗？对于那些不打算追求竞技健美的人来说，最好探索一下他们的训练和良好的营养可以走多远，甚至可能在他们真正需要之前或以后不需要激素替代？
To me, it seems like given the health risks, unless there's-- It's sort of like boxing.
对我来说，这似乎是考虑到健康风险，除非有——这有点像拳击。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Boxing's fun.
拳击很有趣。
I've done some boxing, done some sparring, but at some point you realize, wait, if I'm not going to make money doing this, if this isn't my career, getting hit in the head is just not worth it.
我打过一些拳击，打过一些陪练，但在某些时候你会意识到，等等，如果我不能通过这样做赚钱，如果这不是我的职业，那么头部被击中是不值得的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Especially for my job.
特别是对于我的工作。
I'm not asking you to be a public health advisor, but- You've been in this sport.
我并不是要求你成为一名公共卫生顾问，但是——你一直从事这项运动。
A lot of young guys and gals are interested in looking better, feeling better, and going immediately to, "What peptides can I take?
许多年轻人都对看起来更好、感觉更好感兴趣，并立即想到“我可以服用什么肽？
Should I be on HRT?
我应该接受激素替代治疗吗？
Should I take Anavar?" And I've got my opinions, but you're the expert here.
我应该服用 Anavar 吗？”我有我的意见，但你是这里的专家。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Well, it's my opinion, and the way I looked at it was like, I'm going to do this as a sport, right?
嗯，这是我的观点，我的看法是，我会把它作为一项运动，对吗？
So I justified it because everyone else was doing it, and I did it as a professional.
所以我证明这是合理的，因为其他人都在这样做，而我是作为专业人士这样做的。
And 1990, so I was two times British Champion, overall British Champion in 1988.
1990年，我两次获得英国冠军，1988年获得英国总冠军。
I got my pro card, and my first pro contest was Night of Champions, which was probably second or third below the Mr. Olympia.
我拿到了职业卡，我的第一场职业比赛是冠军之夜，可能比奥林匹亚先生排名第二或第三。
Because for those of you who don't know, you can't just go into Mr. Olympia, right?
因为对于那些不知道的人来说，你不能直接进入奥林匹亚先生，对吧？
You have to win a pro show or place in the top three as it used to be then.
你必须赢得一场职业比赛，或者像以前一样进入前三名。
I'm not sure.
我不确定。
Now they seem to give out so many pro cards, it's kind of lost its value.
现在他们似乎发放了这么多专业卡，它有点失去了价值。
But then it was tough to get a pro card.
但后来拿到职业卡就很难了。
So I said, "Look, I've been doing all this, yeah?
所以我说：“看，我一直在做这一切，是吗？
I'm taking steroids, which may have some negative effects on my health later on.
我正在服用类固醇，这可能会对我以后的健康产生一些负面影响。
May do.
可以做。
So I'm going to go to Night of Champions.
所以我要去参加冠军之夜。
If I don't get in the top five, I'm not good enough." So at that point, if that's the case, no longer justified to take the steroids, right?
如果我没有进入前五名，我就不够好。”所以到那时，如果是这样的话，就不再有理由服用类固醇了，对吧？
Or compete, because I've gone as far as my genetics will allow me.
或者竞争，因为我已经在我的基因允许的范围内做到了。
As I observed the history of bodybuilding, the guys that were great champions, they were great out the gate.
当我观察健美历史时，那些成为伟大冠军的人，他们在出道时就表现出色。
They didn't get, I don't know, 12th place in Mr. Olympia and then next year win it, right?
我不知道，他们没有在奥林匹亚先生比赛中获得第 12 名，然后明年赢得它，对吗？
You got it or you don't have it, right?
你得到它或者你没有它，对吗？
That's what I thought.
我就是这么想的。
I'm going to be brutally honest with myself.
我将对自己非常诚实。
I have a gym.
我有一个健身房。
I'm making okay money now.
我现在钱还算可以吧
If I don't compete, I could open more gyms, put more time into that.
如果我不参加比赛，我可以开设更多健身房，投入更多时间。
I have a young son.
我有一个年幼的儿子。
There's kind of making a sacrifice of time and energy and everything because I'm putting everything into this.
有点牺牲时间、精力和一切，因为我把一切都投入其中。
So if I don't get in the top five in the Night of Champions, competitive career is over, steroids are over.
因此，如果我没有在冠军之夜进入前五名，那么我的职业生涯就结束了，类固醇就结束了。
Do something else within the sport.
做一些运动范围内的其他事情。
Open more gyms or something like that.
开设更多健身房或类似的东西。
Anyway, the story is I got second, so I continued to do what I got to do as a professional, and I feel it was justified because I was earning a lot of money, more money than anyone else I knew, ever earned.
无论如何，故事是我获得了第二名，所以我继续做我作为一名专业人士必须做的事情，我觉得这是合理的，因为我赚了很多钱，比我认识的任何人赚的钱都多。
But what's my advice?
但我的建议是什么？
If you're a 20-year-old guy and you were speaking to me and I'm giving you advice, get as far as you can naturally, yeah?
如果你是一个 20 岁的年轻人，你正在跟我说话，我给你建议，自然就尽可能地走得远，是吗？
And then look at it.
然后看看它。
But whatever gains you make by taking anabolics is a temporary situation.
但无论您通过服用合成代谢药物获得什么收益，都是暂时的。
You will lose it when you get off, right?
下车后你就会失去它，对吗？
So it's a merry-go-round.
所以这是一个旋转木马。
Once you get on the merry-go-round, you don't really want to get off, because when you do get off, you start to lose all those gains.
一旦你上了旋转木马，你就不想下车了，因为当你下车时，你就开始失去所有这些收获。
You start to feel mentally depressed because now your hormones are on the floor.
你开始感到精神沮丧，因为现在你的荷尔蒙已经下降了。
So what you going to do?
那么你要做什么？
Jump right back on again.
再次跳回来。
And it becomes this merry-go-round.
它就变成了这个旋转木马。
As far as I'm concerned, everybody should make their own choices in life and be able to do what they want to do.
在我看来，每个人都应该在生活中做出自己的选择，并能够做自己想做的事情。
But keep that in mind.
但请记住这一点。
Is it worth it?
值得吗？
Because possible negative effects, physically, and also is not talked about a lot mentally.
因为可能的负面影响，身体上的，而且精神上的也没有被太多谈论。
I believe there's a lot of people in the sport with mental health problems, especially women now, because they're in the high doses now, where before they really weren't.
我相信这项运动中有很多人都存在心理健康问题，尤其是现在的女性，因为她们现在服用的剂量很高，而以前她们实际上并没有。
And we're in this age of instant gratification.
我们正处于这个即时满足的时代。
Everybody wants everything now, right?
现在每个人都想要一切，对吧？
And I see it a bit like this, maybe from the guy's point of view.
我的看法有点像这样，也许是从那个人的角度来看。
Well, listen, women are having breast implants, right?
好吧，听着，女性正在做隆胸手术，对吧？
They're having lip fillers and Botox and all this shit, so why can't we take some anabolics just to look good and have abs on the beach?
他们有唇部填充剂和肉毒杆菌以及所有这些狗屎，所以我们为什么不能服用一些合成代谢药物只是为了看起来漂亮并在海滩上拥有腹肌呢？
Why not?
为什么不呢？
Because of that.
正因为如此。
And ask yourself if it's worth it, because this is a reality.
问问自己这是否值得，因为这是现实。
You can't keep those gains, so you're probably going to be forced to continually do this over a long period of time, and that might be bad for your health.
您无法保持这些收益，因此您可能会被迫长期持续这样做，这可能对您的健康不利。
I seem to be in very good health.
我看起来身体状况很好。
But I've changed my lifestyle and done a lot of different things to recover from the stress that I put on my body in a professional career.
但我改变了自己的生活方式，并做了很多不同的事情来从职业生涯中给身体带来的压力中恢复过来。
And I'm here today, and I'm healthy, and I'm successful, and my business is good, and I'm happy.
今天我在这里，我很健康，我很成功，我的生意很好，我很高兴。
But it could've been different.
但情况可能会有所不同。
It was different for a lot of guys that I used to compete against.
对于我曾经与之竞争的很多人来说，这是不同的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, a lot of them are dead.
是的，他们中的很多人都死了。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
So is it worth the risk?
那么值得冒这个风险吗？
That's their question to answer, but I would say it's not, but hey, that's just my opinion.
这是他们要回答的问题，但我想说不是，但是嘿，这只是我的意见。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Well, I'm struck again by how rational you were.
嗯，我再次被你的理性所震惊。
If I place in the top five, et cetera, I'll move forward.
如果我进入前五名等等，我就会继续前进。
If not-
如果不是——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Very calculated, really
真的很算计
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
very grounded.
非常接地气。
Yeah.
是的。
So that was the first question, and we will return to some training things.
这是第一个问题，我们将回到一些培训问题。
But the second question relates to this thing that you mentioned about your dad had he not passed away young.
但第二个问题与你提到的关于你父亲的事情有关，如果他不是很早就去世的话。
A friend of mine, we were talking recently about having daughters versus sons.
我的一个朋友，我们最近在谈论生女儿和生儿子的问题。
I won't provide the context for this, and he said to me, he's got three daughters.
我不会提供相关背景，他对我说，他有三个女儿。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he's very happy with his three daughters.
他和他的三个女儿在一起非常幸福。
And he said, "The one thing about sons is they feel," I think he was talking about himself, "they feel like they have to fill their father's shoes."
他说，“关于儿子的一件事是，他们觉得，”我认为他在谈论他自己，“他们觉得自己必须接替父亲的位置。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"There's going to be a phase where they're competing with their dad no matter what."
“无论如何，他们都会在一个阶段与他们的父亲竞争。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And my reflexive response was, "Nah." And then I realized, listen, I went through all that stuff.
我的本能反应是：“不。”然后我意识到，听着，我经历了所有这些事情。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Right.
对。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
All that stuff.
所有这些东西。
And in many ways, my dad and I are on good terms now, but we had some choppy years in there, for sure, but now we're good.
从很多方面来说，我和我父亲现在关系很好，但我们确实在那里度过了一些波涛汹涌的岁月，但现在我们关系很好了。
But the friction, that grew me a lot, too.
但摩擦也让我成长了很多。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It forced me to work harder.
它迫使我更加努力地工作。
There were probably some long nights that I wasn't consciously tying it to like, oh, I'm trying to outdo him, but I pushed myself to become somebody that was at least as successful in certain ways and ideally more.
可能有一些漫长的夜晚，我并没有有意识地把它绑在喜欢上，哦，我试图超越他，但我强迫自己成为一个至少在某些方面同样成功的人，理想情况下更成功。
And so do you think this is a real thing?
那么你认为这是真的吗？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I think every situation can go two ways, right?
我认为每种情况都有两种可能，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
You have a son now, so how do you think about this with him?
你现在已经有了一个儿子，那么你对他的这件事有什么看法呢？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I think he found it tough.
我想他觉得这很难。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
He confides with my wife a little bit that he found it tough.
他向我妻子透露了一点，他发现这很难。
But I'm like: "Don't try to compete with me in what I do, but take the principles of discipline and hard work, and you can apply that really to anything." But yeah, I think, my son did some bodybuilding.
但我想：“不要试图在我所做的事情上与我竞争，而是遵循纪律和努力工作的原则，你可以将其真正应用到任何事情上。”但是，是的，我想，我儿子做了一些健美运动。
He was playing with the idea of competing, which he probably could have done quite well at.
他正在考虑竞争的想法，他本来可以做得很好。
But I said: "Look, you're a sensitive guy, yeah?
但我说：“听着，你是个敏感的人，是吗？
Much more sensitive than me.
比我敏感多了。
I got thick skin.
我脸皮很厚。
But let me tell you what will happen if you compete.
但让我告诉你，如果你竞争会发生什么。
You win, ah." Of course, he won, it's Dorian's son.
你赢了啊。”当然，他赢了，是多里安的儿子。
"You lose." How can he lose?
“你输了。”他怎么会输呢？
He's Dorian's son.
他是多里安的儿子。
I said: "Either way, be prepared for, that's going to be the reaction.
我说：“无论哪种方式，都要做好准备，这将是这样的反应。
So, if you want to do it, I'll support you." But he decided not to get into the competitive side of things.
所以，如果你想这么做，我会支持你。”但他决定不参与竞争。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Well, he trains people and stuff, so, both of my kids are in the fitness world, let's say.
嗯，他训练人和东西，所以，我的两个孩子都在健身界，可以这么说。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But competitive world is a different thing, and there's very few people that can get to the top and make it work for them.
但竞争的世界是另一回事，很少有人能够达到顶峰并为他们工作。
You know?
你知道吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
More people now, because before you had to compete, and you had to win, and you had to be in the magazines.
现在有更多的人，因为以前你必须竞争，你必须获胜，你必须出现在杂志上。
Now, a lot of people can make money online coaching or whatever it is.
现在，很多人可以通过在线辅导或其他任何方式赚钱。
So there's more avenues now that you can go into to make money-
所以现在你可以通过更多的途径来赚钱——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
in the what's called now the fitness industry.
在现在所谓的健身行业。
It's so much bigger than when I was competing, but I would say purest bodybuilding is less people doing it.
它比我参加比赛时大得多，但我想说，最纯粹的健美运动就是更少的人这样做。
More people going to the gym and doing fitness in general.
越来越多的人去健身房普遍健身。
But I think bodybuilding per se was more popular in the '80s and '90s because it was all new, and there was no CrossFit, there was no MMA.
但我认为健美本身在 80 年代和 90 年代更受欢迎，因为它是全新的，没有 CrossFit，没有 MMA。
Things have changed since then.
从那时起，情况发生了变化。
There was no Fitness Mr. Olympia.
没有健身奥林匹亚先生。
I don't know, they've got so many classes now.
我不知道，他们现在有这么多课。
So there's many more things for people to do than, maybe they figure it's not worth it to be a competitive bodybuilder if you can earn an income online and not put yourself online in competition.
因此，人们有更多的事情要做，也许他们认为，如果你可以在网上赚取收入而不让自己参加网上比赛，那么成为一名竞技健美运动员是不值得的。
So things have changed a lot since then.
从那时起，情况发生了很大变化。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, and the bodies that are in movies have changed tremendously.
是的，电影中的身体发生了巨大的变化。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The average size of a male or female, the shape is so much more bodybuilder-esque now.
男性或女性的平均尺寸，形状现在更像健美运动员了。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, because everyone-
是的，因为每个人——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's like action figures
就像动作人物一样
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
's using juice, right?
正在用果汁，对吗？
It's mainstream now.
现在已经是主流了
When I started bodybuilding in the 1980s, I don't think the general public really knew about steroids.
当我在 20 世纪 80 年代开始健美时，我认为公众并不真正了解类固醇。
They got a little inkling when Ben Johnson got a positive.
当本·约翰逊（Ben Johnson）检测呈阳性时，他们有了一些线索。
Now everybody's, it's mainstream, right?
现在每个人都是主流，对吧？
Everybody knows about steroids, and I think it's seen by males as a cosmetic enhancement, just like females putting blushments in, or Botox, and whatever they put in their lips and everything, to make that change.
每个人都知道类固醇，我认为男性将其视为一种美容增强剂，就像女性使用腮红或肉毒杆菌以及他们在嘴唇中放入的任何东西一样，以实现这种改变。
So it's mainstream.
所以它是主流。
You got rappers, you got movie stars, like they want to get in shape for a movie.
有说唱歌手，有电影明星，就像他们想为电影保持身材一样。
Come on, man.
来吧，伙计。
It's not happening in two months, that transformation, without some chemical help.
如果没有化学物质的帮助，这种转变不会在两个月内发生。
Which, they're earning millions in the movie-
他们在电影中赚了数百万-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure
当然可以
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
so maybe it's worth it for them, of course.
当然，也许这对他们来说是值得的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
You mentioned you have a thick skin.
你说过你脸皮很厚。
One of the things that got me to learn about you early on, because frankly, I was involved in other things, a little bit of martial arts, some soccer, some things, and bodybuilding, to me, wasn't something I really wanted to pursue as a sport, but I wanted to put on muscle.
其中一件事让我很早就了解了你，因为坦白说，我参与了其他事情，一点武术，一些足球，一些事情，还有健美，对我来说，并不是我真正想追求的一项运动，但我想增加肌肉。
I was-
我当时——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a tall, skinny kid.
一个又高又瘦的孩子。
That's what led me to Menser and how I learned about your training, discovered what you were doing, and then really learned to extract the, what I think is the best of bodybuilding for somebody who doesn't want to do it.
这就是我来到 Menser 的原因，也是我如何了解你的训练，发现你在做什么，然后真正学会提取我认为对于那些不想做健美的人来说最好的健美运动。
Like, how are they training?
比如，他们训练得怎么样？
How are they eating?
他们吃得怎么样？
What are they doing that's separate from the drugs that I can benefit from?
除了我可以受益的药物之外，他们还在做什么？
This kind of thing.
这种事。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And to be fair, TRT can be very useful to treat depression and other things for men and, in some cases, even women.
公平地说，TRT 对于治疗男性抑郁症和其他疾病非常有用，在某些情况下甚至对女性也是如此。
We'll get back to that, but I want to just frame this in a certain way.
我们会回到这个话题，但我想以某种方式来阐述这个问题。
However, one of the things that I think drew me to what you were doing at the time is that you had this mellow, or I would say quiet, thick-skinned stance.
然而，我认为你当时所做的事情吸引我的原因之一是你有这种柔和的态度，或者我会说安静、厚脸皮的态度。
We also have commonalities through our music tastes.
我们的音乐品味也有共同点。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I saw that, and I recognized certain things.
所以我看到了，并且认识到了某些事情。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Still got that punk inside me, man.
我内心仍然保留着那个朋克，伙计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And the tattoos, the punk rock thing.
还有纹身，朋克摇滚。
Yeah, Oi!
是啊，哎呀！
music and that kind of thing.
音乐之类的东西。
And so you go, "Oh, here's somebody who's kind of different than the rest of this community." But when people see the videos of you training, we'll put some links to those.
所以你会说，“哦，这个人与这个社区的其他人有点不同。”但是当人们看到你训练的视频时，我们会提供一些链接。
It's so striking because you're like this, but then in the moment of a set, it's like, intensity doesn't quite explain it.
这太引人注目了，因为你就是这样的，但在比赛的那一刻，强度并不能完全解释它。
And I'm curious because people can see those videos.
我很好奇，因为人们可以看到这些视频。
What was going on in your head?
你脑子里在想什么？
Going into the set, through the set, were you thinking about, I'm just guessing, your dad, how you were an underdog?
进入这组，整个组，你有没有想过，我只是猜测，你的父亲，你是如何成为一个失败者的？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Were you just thinking about the muscle?
你只是考虑肌肉吗？
What were you using besides listening to loud music?
除了听大声的音乐之外，您还使用什么？
And, intensity doesn't come from nowhere.
而且，强度并非凭空而来。
It comes from someplace.
它来自某个地方。
What's your internal narrative at those times?
那时你的内心故事是怎样的？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Well, I always prepared myself before I went to the gym.
嗯，在去健身房之前我总是做好准备。
Just walk through the doors casually.
随意地走进门就可以了。
I'd review my training before I went there.
在去那里之前我会回顾一下我的训练。
This is what I did last week.
这就是我上周所做的。
This is what I want to do today.
这就是我今天想做的事情。
And I would sit and do a visualization.
我会坐下来进行想象。
So I'd have specific clothes for the day and, like OCD maybe.
所以我会为当天准备特定的衣服，也许是强迫症患者的衣服。
And I used to have this thing, which seems strange to me now, yeah?
我曾经有过这个东西，现在对我来说似乎很奇怪，是吗？
I used to iron my clothes before I went to the gym, right?
我去健身房之前常常熨烫衣服，对吗？
They had to be ironed.
它们必须被熨烫。
They had to be a thing.
它们一定是一个东西。
And I just read a study how ironing clothes really lowers your cortisol by about 40%.
我刚刚读到一项研究，发现熨烫衣服确实可以使皮质醇降低约 40%。
I didn't know that.
我不知道。
I was just doing it.
我只是在做而已。
I trained with my friend in New York.
我和我的朋友在纽约训练。
He said: "What the fuck you doing, man?
他说：“你他妈的在做什么，伙计？
Just put your T-shirt on." "No, no, no, I got to iron it." There was a whole game preparation going on to get me in the- Maybe OCD, maybe too much, but it worked for me, yeah?
穿上你的T恤就可以了。” “不，不，不，我得熨一下。”为了让我进入——也许是强迫症，也许太多了，但它对我有用，是吗？
So I review, go to the gym, and have my targets, and I use a special type of motivation.
所以我回顾，去健身房，设定我的目标，然后我使用一种特殊的动机。
It's called fuck you motivation.
这就是所谓的去你妈的动力。
Huh?
啊？
Fuck you to all the teachers at school that said you couldn't get anywhere.
学校里那些说你一事无成的老师都去你妈的吧。
Fuck you.
操你妈的。
Fuck anyone.
他妈的任何人。
So I'm going to show you.
所以我要告诉你。
Fuck you.
操你妈的。
So fuck you motivation is a great one, yeah?
所以他妈的你的动机是一个伟大的动机，是吗？
Whatever you got inside you, anger, negative emotions, use it all.
无论你内心有什么，愤怒、负面情绪，全部利用起来。
Use it all like fire.
像火一样使用它。
And then when I go home, I'm like, "Ah, I'm chilled." I've slayed dragons in the gym.
然后当我回家时，我会想，“啊，我很冷。”我在健身房里杀过龙。
I've hacked people up with my sword.
我用我的剑砍过人。
And it's like a form of mastery over one's self, mastery over...
这就像一种对自我的掌控，对……的掌控。
The whole thing with the dieting as well for competitions, maybe I went a little bit overboard with it and came down a little bit too much because then it was like mastery over my instincts to want to eat and do that.
整个节食以及比赛，也许我有点太过分了，而且降得有点太多了，因为那时就像是掌控了我想吃东西并这样做的本能。
No. I'm deciding here.
不，我在这里做决定。
I'm in control.
我一切尽在掌控。
And maybe this worked against me a bit as well, because I would be going to the work, "I don't care if I feel a little argh, I'm going through it." So, yeah, I used all this anger, negative emotions, whatever it is.
也许这对我也有点不利，因为我要去工作，“我不在乎我是否感到有点恶心，我正在经历它。”所以，是的，我利用了所有这些愤怒、负面情绪，无论是什么。
I'll show you.
我会告诉你。
I'm going to make it.
我会成功的。
I'm going to do this.
我要做这个。
So whatever works for you, but for me, that worked.
所以无论什么对你有用，但对我来说，那都是有效的。
Anything negative, turn it into something positive.
任何消极的事情，把它变成积极的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It's transforming the negative energy, which could be destructive to myself or maybe other people around me, taking it, alchemy.
它正在转化负能量，这可能对我自己或我周围的其他人具有破坏性，接受它，炼金术。
Changing it into something else.
把它改成别的东西。
So I used all that negative feeling, negative emotions, and I stayed in Birmingham as well while I was Mr. Olympia for six years.
所以我利用了所有消极的感觉、消极的情绪，当我担任奥林匹亚先生六年时，我也留在了伯明翰。
More opportunities here and everything, but more distractions as well.
这里有更多的机会和一切，但也有更多的干扰。
So I wanted to stay in the same gym, try to keep that same attitude, even though I got more money in the bank and I'm driving a Mercedes instead of jumping on the bus, right?
所以我想留在同一个健身房，尽量保持同样的态度，即使我在银行有更多的钱，而且我开的是奔驰而不是跳上公共汽车，对吗？
But I wanted to keep that.
但我想保留它。
That's why I didn't move over here.
这就是为什么我没有搬到这里来。
A lot of people asked me why I didn't go to the States, because the industry's there.
很多人问我为什么不去美国，因为那里有这个行业。
But by the time I got to be Mr. Olympia, I could kind of dictate things.
但当我成为奥林匹亚先生时，我可以发号施令。
So I did what I wanted to do, which was keep my head down and keep that hunger going.
所以我做了我想做的事，那就是低着头，保持饥饿感。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love the transmutation of anger, and everyone's got their stories of the...
我喜欢愤怒的转变，每个人都有自己的故事......
Man, I can remember in the third grade, someone said something about the jacket that my mom gave me that day to wear.
伙计，我记得三年级的时候，有人说了一些关于我妈妈那天给我穿的夹克的事。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
These little things, they don't bother me anymore.
这些小事，已经不再困扰我了。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there were times when we can layer in that stuff.
但有时我们可以将这些东西分层。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It's fuel, man.
这是燃料，伙计。
Use it for fuel.
用它作为燃料。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's fuel, yeah.
这是燃料，是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Take that anger, the negative thing, whatever, change it into something positive.
把愤怒、消极的东西，无论如何，把它变成积极的东西。
And we were discussing earlier, do we know any elite level athletes that came from a very comfortable, wealthy family?
我们之前讨论过，我们知道有哪些精英级别的运动员来自一个非常舒适、富裕的家庭吗？
I don't know any.
我一个也不知道。
I'm not saying there isn't, but I don't know any.
我不是说没有，但我不知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe in golf or something, yeah.
也许在高尔夫什么的，是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You need that motivation.
你需要那种动力。
You want to make something.
你想做点什么。
You want to make something of your life.
你想为自己的生活做点什么。
You want to prove to yourself and everybody else, that you've got something.
你想向自己和其他人证明你有所作为。
And when I was young, I looked at life around me.
当我年轻的时候，我观察周围的生活。
I said, "What is this?
我说：“这是什么？
I'm going to get a mate, have some children, go to work, come back." For a lot of people, this is great.
我要找一个伴侣，生一些孩子，去工作，然后回来。”对于很多人来说，这很棒。
Maybe the love of the family and everything like that, but I didn't have that.
也许是家庭的爱之类的，但我没有。
Even when I had a family, it wasn't a family.
即使我有一个家庭，那也不是一个家庭。
My mom and dad were kind of together because it was the '60s, but I get the idea that was because of me, maybe.
我妈妈和爸爸在一起是因为那是 60 年代，但我觉得这可能是因为我。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So we never sat down and had a meal as a family.
所以我们一家人从来没有坐下来吃饭。
Never.
绝不。
So Mom and Dad were married, but they were leading kind of separate lives, and I was in the middle somewhere, I guess.
所以妈妈和爸爸结婚了，但他们过着不同的生活，我猜我就处于中间的某个地方。
Yeah, so if I didn't have that motivation, maybe my dad would've taught me to be a car engineer or something.
是的，所以如果我没有这种动力，也许我爸爸会教我成为一名汽车工程师或其他什么。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It would be a whole different story, I'm sure.
我确信这将是一个完全不同的故事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I have this theory that barring accident or injury, that we kind of have an unconscious sense of how long we're going to live.
我有这样的理论，除非发生事故或受伤，否则我们对自己的寿命有一种无意识的感觉。
I started thinking about this when I read the biography of Steve Jobs, who-
当我读到史蒂夫·乔布斯的传记时，我开始思考这个问题，他——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
he was really on a mission early on and kind of an odd guy.
他很早就开始执行任务，而且是个奇怪的人。
He was in the area I grew up in, and this whole thing with LSD, but also scream therapy, but also he thought that objects had personality and things like that.
他在我长大的地方，LSD 的整个事情，还有尖叫疗法，但他也认为物体有个性等等。
He was quite different.
他很不一样。
And-
还有——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
He was doing something different.
他正在做一些不同的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He was doing something different.
他正在做一些不同的事情。
He saw the world very differently, and he changed the world.
他以截然不同的方式看待世界，并且改变了世界。
Like him or hate him-
喜欢他还是讨厌他——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
he absolutely changed the world.
他彻底改变了世界。
If you learn about him, you realize that he had some sense that he might not live a very long time.
如果你了解他，你就会发现他有一种感觉，他可能活不了多久。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he died quite young, pancreatic cancer.
他很年轻就死于胰腺癌。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Is it a sense or is it a premonition?
这是一种感觉还是一种预感？
Is it-
难道是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
you know?
你知道吗？
And you can edit these thoughts, I think.
我认为你可以编辑这些想法。
Because I always had this bit of a fatalistic thing, maybe because my dad died so young.
因为我总是有一种宿命论的感觉，也许是因为我父亲去世得太早了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So my dad died at 42.
所以我父亲42岁就去世了。
My mom quickly met another guy that she wanted to marry, and he also died at 44.
我妈妈很快就遇到了另一个她想结婚的男人，他也在 44 岁时去世了。
So I saw two guys.
所以我看到了两个人。
Okay, they both smoke 40 cigarettes a day, which was usual at that time, and don't exercise and drink alcohol and-
好吧，他们每天都吸 40 支烟，这在当时很常见，而且不运动、不喝酒，而且——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not much sunlight up there
上面没有太多阳光
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
not get enough sleep and no sunlight.
睡眠不足，没有阳光。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
All these things.
所有这些事情。
But I've changed this over the years, because now I'm 63, going on 64, and appear to be very healthy.
但多年来我已经改变了这一点，因为现在我已经 63 岁了，即将 64 岁，而且看起来非常健康。
I feel great, and I'm looking forward to the future.
我感觉很好，我对未来充满期待。
And I don't know.
我不知道。
None of us know, right?
我们谁都不知道，对吧？
I'm just trying to live the best life that I can live day by day, and be the best version of myself and have a good quality of life, and appreciate every day at a time.
我只是想日复一日地过上最好的生活，成为最好的自己，拥有良好的生活质量，并珍惜每一天。
This is what we learn from dogs.
这是我们从狗身上学到的。
They don't live in the future.
他们并不生活在未来。
They don't live in the past.
他们不活在过去。
They're just there all the time.
他们一直都在那里。
They're there as a reminder We're both dog lovers, so we were talking about that earlier on.
它们的出现是为了提醒我们，我们都是爱狗人士，所以我们之前就讨论过这一点。
So we don't know how long we're going to live.
所以我们不知道自己还能活多久。
Just make the most of it every day.
只要充分利用每一天就可以了。
And I said I read a lot, so there's this book by a lady that works in end care.
我说我读了很多书，所以这本书是一位从事末端护理工作的女士写的。
So she interviewed all these people that they know they're dying, they're on the way out, and what they regret and all this stuff.
所以她采访了所有这些人，他们知道自己快要死了，他们正在走出去，以及他们后悔什么等等。
Mostly it was not doing the things they love.
主要是没有做他们喜欢的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Not telling the people that they love that they love them enough.
不告诉自己所爱的人，他们已经足够爱他们了。
Not one fucking person said, "I wish I worked harder" or anything like that.
没有一个人说过“我希望我工作更努力”或类似的话。
So I think we have to just make the most of the moment, make the most of each day and appreciate it.
所以我认为我们必须充分利用当下，充分利用每一天并感激它。
Because it's going to end.
因为它即将结束。
We're going to move on.
我们要继续前进。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I don't believe we stop.
我不相信我们会停下来。
We just move on.
我们继续前进。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I think we continue on in some form.
我认为我们会以某种形式继续下去。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
We're already there.
我们已经到了。
We're already everywhere at the same time, and that's what I think.
我们已经同时无处不在，这就是我的想法。
We're just aware of this.
我们只是意识到这一点。
We're on this channel right now.
我们现在正在这个频道上。
We're on this radio wave.
我们在这个无线电波上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I certainly subscribe to that.
我当然同意这一点。
And I want to get into your exploration of psychedelics and consciousness, and then moving on from it, which not everyone is aware of.
我想谈谈你对迷幻剂和意识的探索，然后继续前进，这并不是每个人都知道的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But before we do that, despite the living for the day, by the day, you had this sense that you're going to put everything you have into something, and you went for it.
但在我们这样做之前，尽管每天都在生活，但你有一种感觉，你要把你拥有的一切投入到某件事中，你就去做了。
In this, I'm realizing now very logical, like if this, then that.
在这一点上，我现在意识到非常合乎逻辑，就像如果这样，那么那样。
If that, then not this.
如果是这样，那就不是这个了。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
I always try to weigh stuff up.
我总是尝试权衡一些事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It wasn't do or die.
这不是做或死。
It was maybe do or die during the training.
训练期间可能是生死攸关的事情。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it was when the feedback signal was, there's a real opportunity here, you put everything in.
但就在那时，反馈信号是，这里有一个真正的机会，你要投入一切。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But you weren't foolish with your life resource.
但你的生命资源并不愚蠢。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
No, I did it step by step.
不，我是一步步做到的。
And anabolics that I took when I was amateur was fairly low.
我业余时服用的合成代谢物相当低。
So I don't think there was that much risk there.
所以我认为那里没有那么大的风险。
When I was becoming Mr. Olympia, it went up another level.
当我成为奥林匹亚先生时，它又上升了一个层次。
And growth hormone was not available early 80s, so that came in later 80s into the 90s and so on.
生长激素在 80 年代初期还没有出现，所以在 80 年代后期到 90 年代才出现，依此类推。
But I don't think there's much danger in that.
但我认为这没有太大危险。
There's danger is in the body weight, high blood pressure, inflammation.
危险在于体重、高血压、炎症。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Diuretics.
利尿剂。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Diuretics, I mean, that's an instant death sentence if you overdo that, and it has happened.
利尿剂，我的意思是，如果你使用过度，那就会立即被判死刑，而这种情况已经发生了。
It hit me, the guy that I got second to at my first Night of Champions, Mohamed Benaziza.
这对我来说是一个打击，我在第一届冠军之夜中获得第二名，穆罕默德·贝纳齐扎。
I don't know if you remember him.
我不知道你还记不记得他。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I do, yeah.
我愿意，是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
He was a short guy, but amazing.
他是个矮个子，但很了不起。
Lot of muscle.
很多肌肉。
And he passed away on a tour because he was doing extreme things with water and diuretics.
他在一次旅行中去世，因为他用水和利尿剂做了极端的事情。
And they actually did introduce testing for diuretics 1996 in the Mr. Olympia because people were concerned about this.
事实上，他们确实在 1996 年在奥林匹亚先生中引入了利尿剂测试，因为人们对此感到担忧。
There was a few guys that died just trying to get dehydrated and get in condition.
有几个人只是为了脱水和恢复健康而死的。
But I think somebody failed the test and challenged it legally, and it didn't stand up.
但我认为有人没有通过测试并合法地对其提出质疑，但它并没有站得住脚。
So then they just dropped it.
所以他们就放弃了它。
They did steroid testing, interestingly, in 1990.
有趣的是，他们在 1990 年进行了类固醇测试。
Remember that?
还记得吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How'd that go?
怎么样？
Sorry.
对不起。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Take a look online.
网上看一下。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's funny.
很有趣。
It used to be a big deal to try and figure out is somebody taking stuff or not.
过去，尝试弄清楚是否有人拿走东西是一件大事。
There's just these telltale signs.
只有这些明显的迹象。
A certain leanness, a certain protrusion of some vasculature in the neck.
颈部有些瘦削，某些血管系统有些突出。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You can tell when people are on and when they're not.
您可以辨别人们何时在线以及何时不在线。
And although there are a couple genetic freaks out there like yourself when you were younger, or my friend Naseema, who works with Mark Bell, who's just got really long muscle bellies, he's naturally lean, and he's a real athlete.
尽管有一些遗传怪胎，就像你年轻时一样，或者是我的朋友纳西玛（Naseema），他和马克·贝尔（Mark Bell）一起工作，他的腹部肌肉很长，但他天生很瘦，而且他是一名真正的运动员。
And according to him, I think as of last time we spoke, he hasn't touched anything and people would die to have his kind of musculature.
据他说，我认为截至我们上次谈话时，他还没有碰过任何东西，人们会为拥有他那种肌肉组织而死。
And, but he trains hard.
而且，他训练很刻苦。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He does everything.
他做一切事情。
But it's kind of scary to think what happens when guys like that would go on.
但想想当这样的人继续下去时会发生什么，有点可怕。
I think those are the genetic-
我认为这些都是遗传因素——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You could look at my 1990 Mr. Olympia.
你可以看看我 1990 年的《奥林匹亚先生》。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I don't know because they didn't publish the weights.
我不知道，因为他们没有公布重量。
But Lee Haney still won it.
但李哈尼仍然赢得了胜利。
He was maybe a bit lucky to beat Lee Labrada.
他也许有点幸运能够击败李·拉布拉达。
But I'd say Haney was probably 20 pounds down.
但我想说哈尼可能减重了 20 磅。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
The fans were like, "Fuck this.
粉丝们的反应是：“操这个。
We don't want to pay a couple hundred dollars to see guys that are a lot less than before.
我们不想花几百美元去看那些比以前少很多的人。
We want to see the same or more." Nobody wants to see a guy run 100 meters in 11 seconds when they've seen under 10 seconds.
我们希望看到相同或更多的内容。”没有人愿意看到一个人在 11 秒内跑完 100 米，因为他们见过的时间不到 10 秒。
So I think the people that control the sport, they realize this is not going to fly.
所以我认为控制这项运动的人，他们意识到这不会成功。
So they dropped it.
所以他们放弃了它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's so interesting because bodybuilding's an unusual sport.
这很有趣，因为健美是一项不寻常的运动。
But for that matter, so is free solo rock climbing.
但就此而言，自由攀岩也是如此。
We had Alex Honnold on here.
亚历克斯·霍诺德（Alex Honnold）也在这里。
He climbed El Cap, probably the most dangerous athletic feat of all time.
他攀登了酋长岩，这可能是有史以来最危险的运动壮举。
One slip and fall and you're dead.
只要一滑倒，你就死定了。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He said you can make mistakes, but not slip and fall mistakes.
他说你可以犯错误，但不能犯滑倒和跌倒的错误。
Things like that, things like bodybuilding, things like what we see from the Red Bull athletes.
诸如此类的事情，诸如健美的事情，诸如我们从红牛运动员身上看到的事情。
I do think that serves an important role in getting us, as the rest of us, to think about what's possible with the human body, technology, and pharmacology.
我确实认为这对于让我们和其他人一样思考人体、技术和药理学的可能性具有重要作用。
And I do think that from each extreme sport, even skateboarding, a sport I was involved in early on.
我确实认为，从每一项极限运动来看，甚至是我很早就参与的滑板运动。
By the way, street skateboarders putting themselves at extreme risk.
顺便说一句，街头滑板爱好者将自己置于极端危险之中。
Only one guy wears a helmet.
只有一个人戴着头盔。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
One.
一。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
On vert, they wear helmets.
在垂直方向上，他们戴着头盔。
But on the street, they don't do it.
但在街上，他们不会这样做。
Why?
为什么？
Because it's not part of the culture.
因为它不是文化的一部分。
It would like asking professional bodybuilders to stop taking gear.
它就像要求专业健美运动员停止携带装备一样。
It's not going to happen.
这不会发生。
It's embedded in the culture to see how far you can take something in a certain dimension.
它根植于文化中，看看你能在某个维度上走多远。
I think these things provide a useful role in getting ...
我认为这些东西在获得......方面发挥了有用的作用。
the rest of humans to understand what's possible.
其他人了解什么是可能的。
And there's usually, excuse me, valuable takeaways, like resistance training.
抱歉，通常会有一些有价值的收获，比如阻力训练。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nutrition.
营养。
The new nutrition guidelines for the US just came out today.
美国新的营养指南今天刚刚发布。
They basically inverted the food pyramid, limited amount of grains, fruits, vegetables-
他们基本上颠倒了食物金字塔，限制数量的谷物、水果、蔬菜——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Oh, great
哦，太棒了
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
meat, eggs.
肉、蛋。
It's funny.
很有趣。
It's basically what has been talked about in the fitness bodybuilding community for a very long time.
这基本上是健身界长期以来一直在谈论的话题。
Insulin management, low sugar.
胰岛素管理，低糖。
It's so funny because now everyone's like, "Oh, this is so outrageous." But that was pulled from the sport that you're describing.
这很有趣，因为现在每个人都会说，“哦，这太离谱了。”但这是从你所描述的运动中提取出来的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So for people who might not be familiar with the names, because our listenership is broad, I think it's important for people to understand how something like fitness or health progresses.
因此，对于那些可能不熟悉这些名字的人来说，因为我们的听众很广泛，我认为人们了解健身或健康等事物的进展非常重要。
It pulls these things from the pioneers that were willing to, frankly, go pioneer-
它从那些愿意坦率地成为先驱的先驱者那里汲取了这些东西——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Outlaws, yeah
亡命之徒，是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
how it's done.
它是如何完成的。
It doesn't come from university studies, and I say that as a university professor.
它不是来自大学学习，这是我作为大学教授说的。
It comes from the real world, and then back through again.
它来自现实世界，然后又回来。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
We're probably 20 years ahead.
我们可能领先20年。
I don't know about the US, but I went to a conference in London.
我不了解美国，但我去伦敦参加了一个会议。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And it was a national health service.
这是一项全国性的医疗服务。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
How they're now going to study more nutrition.
他们现在将如何研究更多的营养。
Because in their five or six years, they do two hours study on nutrition, which is like, you can't even get high school level understanding in two hours, right?
因为在他们的五六年里，他们学习两个小时的营养学，就像你在两个小时内连高中水平的理解都达不到，对吧？
So I was pleased to hear that now they're going to look at nutrition as part of the health thing.
所以我很高兴听到他们现在将把营养视为健康的一部分。
But it was funny because they were promoting a plant-based diet.
但这很有趣，因为他们正在推广植物性饮食。
But unfortunately, it's going to lack this and this and this, so we need to reinforce it with supplements.
但不幸的是，它会缺少这个、这个、这个，所以我们需要通过补充来加强它。
It's all in the animal-based diet, but that raises cholesterol, so that's bad.
一切都是以动物为基础的饮食，但这会增加胆固醇，所以这是不好的。
But we'll have a very deficient diet and have to supplement it.
但我们的饮食会非常缺乏，必须补充。
I felt like, wouldn't it be better just to take the diet that has the nutrients in it in the first place?
我想，首先采取含有营养成分的饮食不是更好吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So I see competitive bodybuilding is like the peak of an iceberg.
所以我认为竞技健美就像冰山的顶峰。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It's an extreme.
这是一个极端。
It's right at the top, yeah?
它就在顶部，是吗？
But the basic things that we learn can apply to somebody that wants to improve their health.
但我们学到的基本知识可以适用于想要改善健康的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So at an extreme level, we could say maybe it's unhealthy, but if you take the basic principles, it can be very healthy.
因此，在极端的水平上，我们可以说它可能是不健康的，但如果你遵循基本原则，它可以是非常健康的。
Having your hormones in the correct place, building muscle mass.
让你的荷尔蒙处于正确的位置，增强肌肉质量。
There's incredible things that you can do for your health, and you won't be needing to rely on medications to control your blood sugar and your blood pressure and whatever else.
您可以为自己的健康做一些令人难以置信的事情，而且您不需要依赖药物来控制血糖、血压等。
Your body can do it itself.
你的身体可以自己做到。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, LMNT.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 LMNT。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的比例都正确，但不含糖。
Proper hydration is critical for brain and body function.
适当的水合作用对于大脑和身体功能至关重要。
Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish your cognitive and physical performance.
即使是轻微程度的脱水也会降低您的认知和身体表现。
It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.
获得充足的电解质也很重要。
The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are vital for the functioning of all cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.
电解质（钠、镁和钾）对于体内所有细胞（尤其是神经元或神经细胞）的功能至关重要。
Drinking LMNT makes it very easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.
饮用 LMNT 可以轻松确保您获得足够的水分和电解质。
My days tend to start really fast, meaning I have to jump right into work or right into exercise.
我的日子往往开始得很快，这意味着我必须立即投入工作或立即锻炼。
So to make sure that I'm hydrated and I have sufficient electrolytes, when I first wake up in the morning, I drink 16 to 32 ounces of water with an LMNT packet dissolved in it.
因此，为了确保我有足够的水分和足够的电解质，当我早上第一次醒来时，我会喝 16 至 32 盎司的水，其中溶解有 LMNT 包。
I also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes.
我还会在进行任何体育锻炼时饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT，尤其是在炎热的日子里，当我大量出汗并失去水和电解质时。
LMNT has a bunch of great-tasting flavors.
LMNT 有很多美味的口味。
In fact, I love them all.
事实上，我爱他们所有人。
I love the watermelon, the raspberry, the citrus, and I really love the lemonade flavor.
我喜欢西瓜、覆盆子、柑橘，而且我真的很喜欢柠檬水的味道。
So if you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with any purchase.
因此，如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman，购买任意商品即可领取免费的 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。
This is perhaps a good moment to tell a brief story about our mutual friend, Mike Mentzer.
现在也许是一个讲述我们共同的朋友迈克·门泽 (Mike Mentzer) 的简短故事的好时机。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'll keep it really brief.
我会保持简短。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I paid for an online consult with Mike.
我支付了与迈克在线咨询的费用。
It was like 100 bucks I had to wire it to him, which was a fortune for me.
我必须汇给他大概 100 美元，这对我来说是一笔财富。
It was like all my money.
这就像我所有的钱。
I was in high school, right?
我当时是高中生吧？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I was working at this little skateboard shop, selling shoes.
我在一家小滑板店工作，卖鞋子。
Maybe it wasn't all my money, but it was significant.
也许这不是我全部的钱，但它很重要。
I had to wire it to him.
我必须把它转给他。
He calls, and my mother was like, "Why is this grown man calling?" Or, "Who's this grown man calling the house?" He laid down the program.
他打电话来，我妈妈说：“为什么这个成年人打电话来？”或者，“这个给家里打电话的成年人是谁？”他制定了计划。
He barked when he spoke.
他说话的时候就叫了起来。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't think people realize.
我认为人们没有意识到。
He literally barked-
他真的咆哮道——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
when he spoke each word.
当他说出每一个字的时候。
But there was a real kindness way back somewhere in that bark, and the methods worked.
但那股叫声中隐藏着一种真正的善意，而且这些方法很有效。
But he gave me some-- We stayed in touch, and for a couple reasons.
但他给了我一些——我们保持联系，有几个原因。
First of all, he emphasized on that call, but in subsequent calls, stay away from anabolics.
首先，他强调了这一呼吁，但在随后的呼吁中，远离合成代谢。
I didn't ask.
我没问。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He just said it.
他只是这么说的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he said, "Learn to enjoy training really fucking hard." Those are his words.
他说：“学会享受真正艰苦的训练。”这是他的话。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Train yourself, man.
训练自己吧，伙计。
It's a beautiful thing when you push yourself.
当你逼迫自己时，这是一件很美好的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I was like, "All right." I was coming from skateboarding, so I'm used to getting hurt.
我当时想，“好吧。”我是滑板出身，所以我已经习惯了受伤。
But he's like, "Learn to enjoy training really fucking hard." His words.
但他说，“学会享受真正艰苦的训练。”他的话。
And then he also encouraged me to read.
然后他还鼓励我读书。
He was obsessed with philosophy.
他痴迷于哲学。
He was obsessed with-
他痴迷于——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Ayn Rand, objectivist epistemology.
艾因·兰德，客观主义认识论。
A lot of that stuff I found to be somewhat interesting, but he was super dedicated to that, but he also embedded in me.
我发现很多东西都有点有趣，但他非常专注于这些，但他也融入了我。
He said, "You seem like you like learning.
他说：“看来你很喜欢学习。
Maybe you should focus on school." I was like, "All right." And at the time, I was kind of rebellious against my dad.
也许你应该专注于学业。”我当时想，“好吧。”那时，我对我的父亲有点叛逆。
And I took his advice because it was coming from him.
我接受了他的建议，因为这些建议来自他。
And then when I got to school, we stayed in touch.
后来我到了学校，我们就一直保持联系。
I was in Santa Barbara, and he said, "Just remember" -- I'll never forget this.
我当时在圣巴巴拉，他说，“记住”——我永远不会忘记这一点。
He said, "Just remember, 90% of what you're learning is completely wrong, and the worst part is they don't realize they're wrong." And I said, "90%?" And he said, "90%," he said, "but the 10% that's right-
他说：“请记住，你所学到的 90% 都是完全错误的，最糟糕的是他们没有意识到自己错了。”我说：“90%？”他说，“90%，”他说，“但是那 10% 是对的——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
those are the gems that you build off of." And I thought Man, and now, more than 30 years later, as a professional scientist and now podcaster, I can tell you, having spent a lot of time running studies, writing grants, reviewing grants, I've been deeply in that community, he's exactly right.
这些是你构建的宝石。”我想曼，三十多年后的现在，作为一名专业科学家和播客，我可以告诉你，我花了很多时间进行研究、撰写资助、审查资助，我已经深入到了这个社区，他是完全正确的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so he was wrong about a great many things, but he had some real gems embedded in that barking of a voice.
所以他在很多事情上都错了，但他那咆哮的声音中蕴藏着一些真正的宝石。
You remember?
你还记得吗？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Tell you you're going to take the punches, right?
告诉你你会接受打击，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He'd yell at you, basically.
基本上他会对你大喊大叫。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So anyway, I'm grateful to him.
所以无论如何，我都很感激他。
And then he also said, ah, you'll love this.
然后他还说，啊，你会喜欢这个的。
He also said, "And also, you're not Dorian Yates, so don't try to be." He said a lot of guys right now.
他还说，“而且，你不是多里安·耶茨，所以不要试图成为。”他说现在有很多人。
This is when the grainy photos of you-
这就是你的颗粒状照片的时候——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
we'll put a link to this.
我们将放置一个链接。
When that transformation happened, when those photos came out, I think people saw that, and it sparked this aspirational thing in millions of people, like, "Holy shit, that's possible?" But he said, "Listen, you're not that, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy training hard."
当这种转变发生时，当这些照片出现时，我想人们看到了这一点，并在数百万人中激发了这种渴望，就像，“天哪，这可能吗？”但他说：“听着，你不是那样的人，但这并不意味着你不应该享受刻苦训练。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"You're not that, but you could do these other things."
“你不是那样的人，但你可以做其他的事情。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Take the benefits from it.
从中受益。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
That's a really good coach.
这真是一位好教练。
The last thing I needed was somebody to tell me, "Hey, listen, do this," because he needed someone around to talk to or something like that.
我最不需要的就是有人告诉我，“嘿，听着，做这个”，因为他需要有人在身边交谈或类似的事情。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Anyway, that's Mike.
无论如何，那是迈克。
Let's talk about those photos, because I think, and we'll put them up, we'll put a link to them.
让我们来谈谈这些照片，因为我想，我们会把它们放出来，我们会放一个链接到它们。
What happened in that one year, and why do you think that that sort of transformation is so much different than somebody getting big, just big, or somebody getting real strong?
那一年发生了什么，为什么你认为这种转变与某人变大、只是变大或某人变得真正强大有很大不同？
Something happened in that one year, the before and afters, that-
那一年，前后，发生了一些事情——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Well, actually
嗯，实际上
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
changed the way people think about-
改变了人们的思维方式——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
fitness in general.
身体素质一般。
Not just the sport of bodybuilding, but fitness, like what the human body can do.
不仅仅是健美运动，而是健身，就像人体可以做的那样。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, it was a breakthrough level for the sport, as people say.
是的，正如人们所说，这是这项运动的突破性水平。
Before Dorian and after Dorian, the sport changed.
在多里安之前和多里安之后，这项运动发生了变化。
And my approach was unique as well.
我的方法也很独特。
And Joe Weider, you know he had his way of doing things, right?
乔·韦德（Joe Weider），你知道他有自己的做事方式，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is the guy, by the way, folks, that ran Muscle and Fitness and a bunch of other magazines.
顺便说一句，伙计们，这就是经营《肌肉与健身》和许多其他杂志的人。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He basically took the sport of bodybuilding and popularized it into what is now the health and fitness industry.
他基本上将健美运动推广到了现在的健康和健身行业。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
He was a brilliant marketer.
他是一位出色的营销人员。
Joe Weider, trainer of the champions, he didn't know nothing about training, but he knew about marketing.
乔·韦德，冠军队的教练，他对训练一无所知，但他知道营销。
Here's the thing.
事情是这样的。
1992, Mr. Olympia, and then '93.
1992年，《奥林匹亚先生》，然后是'93。
So people think that between '92 and '93, on stage, 17 pounds of muscle I put on in one year.
所以人们认为，从92年到93年，在舞台上，我一年内增加了17磅肌肉。
It is not really true.
这不是真的。
In '92, six weeks out from the Mr. Olympia, I was probably five pounds, six pounds less than the next year.
92 年，距离奥林匹亚先生比赛还有六个星期，我的体重可能是五磅，比第二年少了六磅。
But I knew Lee Haney wasn't going to be there.
但我知道李哈尼不会在那里。
I knew that the guys I was competing against were smaller than me.
我知道我的对手比我小。
So I said, "I don't mind sacrificing some size to get super shredded, as shredded as the smaller guy." So I was coming down, thinking I'd get more shredded.
所以我说，“我不介意牺牲一些尺寸来获得超级粉碎，就像较小的家伙一样粉碎。”所以我就下来了，以为我会变得更加破碎。
Maybe I did a little bit, but I realized, analyzing, because we don't have no iPhone or nothing, but I used to take pictures every week, take the camera roll and wait for them to develop it and all that, and then look, "Oh, how do they look?" And I looked in '92, six weeks out, and I said, "I'm pretty much contest ready then." But I just kept dieting.
也许我做了一点，但我意识到，分析，因为我们没有 iPhone 或者什么都没有，但我过去每周都会拍照，拿着相机胶卷，等待他们冲洗它等等，然后看，“哦，他们看起来怎么样？”我看了 92 年六周后的比赛，我说，“那时我已经准备好参加比赛了。”但我只是继续节食。
So I sacrificed a lot in '92, and I determined that I wouldn't do that in '93.
所以我在92年牺牲了很多，并且我决定在93年我不会这样做。
I still did a little bit because I tend to overdo things.
我还是做了一点，因为我倾向于做得太过分。
So '93, I would say I put on six or seven pounds of muscle.
所以 93 年，我会说我增加了六七磅的肌肉。
As a Mr. Olympia, this is outstanding, because you're already at a high level.
作为奥林匹亚先生，这非常出色，因为你已经处于高水平了。
But I didn't sacrifice 10 pounds of muscle that I wasted the year before.
但我并没有牺牲前一年浪费的10磅肌肉。
So it appeared that I put on 17 pounds of pure muscle in a year.
看来我一年内增加了 17 磅的纯肌肉。
I didn't.
我没有。
I just simply didn't sacrifice as much as I did the year before.
我只是没有像前一年那样牺牲那么多。
So it was a great year of progress, and the pictures that were taken in '92 were taken a week after the contest.
所以这是进步很大的一年，92 年拍摄的照片是在比赛一周后拍摄的。
So I had lost that muscle.
所以我失去了那块肌肉。
So if you compare that one to that one, it looks like, wow, it's night and day.
因此，如果你将那个与那个进行比较，就会发现，哇，这是白天和黑夜。
It wasn't really.
事实并非如此。
I got pictures from '92 where I'm almost as big as '93, but nobody saw those pictures.
我收到了 92 年的照片，我几乎和 93 年一样大，但没有人看到这些照片。
And the pictures that I took in '93 was my friend with a camera.
我93年拍的照片是我朋友用相机拍的。
I said, "Hey, would it be good if you come up and did those pictures that we did last year in the same spot in the gym?" "Yeah, let's do that." And when he showed me afterwards, even I was freaked out.
我说：“嘿，如果你能过来拍我们去年在健身房同一个地方拍的那些照片，会好吗？” “是的，我们就这么做吧。”当他后来给我看时，连我都吓坏了。
I was like, "What?" And he's like, "I'm sending these to the magazines." They were not meant to be.
我当时想，“什么？”他说，“我要把这些寄给杂志。”他们本来就不是这样的。
They were meant to be just for my record, and he had a better camera than me, so that's what I wanted them for.
它们本来只是为了我的记录，而且他有比我更好的相机，所以这就是我想要它们的目的。
That's why I got my underwear on and my socks.
这就是为什么我穿上内衣和袜子。
Because I never think these photos are going to be published, but he sent them to Weider.
因为我从没想过这些照片会被出版，但他把它们发给了韦德。
And the editor at the Weider magazines was Peter Magoff.
韦德杂志的编辑是彼得·马戈夫。
He was English, so we were friends.
他是英国人，所以我们是朋友。
So he sent them to Peter Magoff, and Peter said, "All the guys are coming to the office, and they know that I'm friends with you, so they're looking for something.
于是他把它们发给了彼得·马戈夫，彼得说：“所有的人都来办公室了，他们知道我是你的朋友，所以他们正在寻找一些东西。
So, how's it going?" He said, "Oh, I got these..." Very casually, "I've got these pictures.
那么，怎么样了？”他说，“哦，我有这些……”非常随意，“我有这些照片。
Would you like to see them?" He said, "I put them on the desk." He said they went white.
你想见见他们吗？”他说：“我把它们放在桌子上了。”他说它们变白了。
They just went And just stood there shaking their head like, "Okay.
他们只是站在那里摇头，“好吧。
It's on for second then." Six weeks out, everyone gave up when they saw those pictures, more or less.
那就进行第二次吧。”六周后，当每个人看到这些照片时，或多或少都放弃了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How did it feel to be, at one point, an underdog, and then you're the winner
曾经一度处于劣势，但后来成为赢家的感觉如何
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Well, hold on.
好吧，等等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Before I was a winner-
在我成为胜利者之前-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
very difficult because I had this underdog thing.
非常困难，因为我有这种失败的经历。
I'm from the streets, and nobody thinks I can do this, and I'm from England, and they're all American, and this and this and this.
我来自街头，没有人认为我能做到这一点，我来自英国，他们都是美国人，还有这个、这个、这个。
That's against me, yeah?
这是反对我的，是吗？
Theoretically.
理论上来说。
So I thrived on that.
所以我就靠这个茁壮成长了。
Fuck you, motivation.
去你妈的，动力。
As I said, "I'm going to show you." So I got second to Lee Haney, but then he retired.
正如我所说，“我将向你展示。”所以我排在李哈尼之后，但后来他退役了。
So now the title's open, and logically I'm the favorite.
现在冠军已经开放，从逻辑上讲我是最热门的。
And actually, I struggled with that for a while.
事实上，我为此挣扎了一段时间。
First of all, it was like, "I'm the favorite now.
首先，就像是，“我现在是最受欢迎的。
I don't have that underdog thing.
我没有那种失败者的东西。
I don't know what to do now." And then I was like, "So I'm probably going to be Mr. Olympia." When I went against Haney, I wanted to try to win, but I was a new guy and, "Wow.
我现在不知道该怎么办。”然后我想，“所以我可能会成为奥林匹亚先生。”当我对阵哈尼时，我想尝试获胜，但我是一个新人，“哇。
So I can be Mr. Olympia?" And then I just kind of turned it around in my head.
那么我可以成为奥林匹亚先生吗？”然后我就在脑子里转了转。
Yeah, but why not, man?
是的，但是为什么不呢，伙计？
Somebody's got to be Mr. Olympia.
一定有人是奥林匹亚先生。
And do you know anybody that's dedicated themself to the craft the way you have?
你知道有人像你一样致力于这项工艺吗？
Absolutely not.
绝对不是。
So yeah, goddammit, I deserve it.
所以是的，该死的，我应得的。
And this took about a week to change this whole point of view, where I was comfortable going in as the favorite.
这花了大约一周的时间来改变整个观点，我很舒服地成为最受欢迎的人。
Because yeah, I'm going to win, so I should be the favorite.
因为是的，我会赢，所以我应该是最受欢迎的。
But I struggled with it, man.
但我对此很挣扎，伙计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Because the whole time I was the underdog, even when I was in England.
因为我一直都是失败者，即使是在英格兰的时候。
I'm not social, so I didn't talk to the judges or socialize or do anything.
我不爱社交，所以我没有和评委说话、社交或做任何事情。
It was like, "Who is this guy?
就像是，“这个人是谁？
Why is he like that?
他为什么这样？
Just comes here and disappears." Because I wasn't interested in socializing or talking or trying to get favors.
刚来到这里就消失了。”因为我对社交、谈话或试图获得帮助不感兴趣。
I'm just doing my thing here.
我只是在这里做我的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, dopamine is all about the pleasure of pursuit-
嗯，多巴胺就是追求的乐趣——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
not the pursuit of pleasure.
不是追求快乐。
And the problem with reaching a goal line is, for many people, they don't know what to do at that point.
对于许多人来说，达到目标线的问题是，他们不知道此时该做什么。
In fact, one of the coaches for the Boston Celtics, who used to be a former chess prodigy, Josh Waitzkin, was on here, and he said, "It's very different when you're defending a championship.
事实上，波士顿凯尔特人队的一位教练乔什·维茨金（Josh Waitzkin）曾经是一位前国际象棋神童，他也在场，他说：“当你卫冕冠军时，这是非常不同的。
You're now the defending champion."
你现在是卫冕冠军了。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You're on the top.
你在最上面。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
As opposed to-
相对于——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You've been climbing up.
你一直在往上爬。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I'm going to get that bastard up there.
我要把那个混蛋弄到那里去。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I'm going to knock him off.
我要打倒他。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Oh, now you're there.
哦，现在你在那里。
Now everyone's trying to knock you off.
现在每个人都想把你打倒。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Once you hit the peak, the reason I'm asking is I think this is important for many people who are on the climb, want to be on the climb, want the peak.
一旦你到达顶峰，我问这个问题的原因是我认为这对于许多正在攀登、想要攀登、想要到达顶峰的人来说很重要。
Once you're at the peak, sounds like you did a very good job of rotating your mindset to, "No one's going to take this away from me."
一旦你达到巅峰，听起来你就很好地将心态转变为“没有人能把这从我身边夺走”。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like a bulldog.
就像斗牛犬一样。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And don't get comfortable.
并且不要感到舒服。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm.
嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Don't get comfortable.
别让自己舒服起来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So how do you hear that?
那么你是怎么听到的呢？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Like "The Rocky movie." You remember "The Rocky movie?" When he gets comfortable, he got the big house and everything, and he gets Mr. T coming along, the badass from the ghetto, kicking his ass because he got too comfortable.
比如《洛奇电影》。你还记得电影《洛奇》吗？当他变得舒适时，他得到了大房子和一切，他让来自贫民窟的坏蛋T先生也跟着来了，因为他太舒服了而踢他的屁股。
So I always remember that.
所以我一直记得这一点。
I'm just going to stay here, train in the gym with the same guys I train with.
我只会留在这里，和和我一起训练的人一起在健身房训练。
They don't fucking treat me like a superstar or nothing.
他们他妈的根本没有把我当作超级巨星或者什么都不是。
They know I'm the man, but we're friends.
他们知道我是那个人，但我们是朋友。
We've been friends for years.
我们已经是多年的朋友了。
They know me.
他们认识我。
Keep my feet on the ground.
让我的双脚脚踏实地。
If I came here, I potentially could have made more income, but it probably would have lasted shorter.
如果我来到这里，我可能会赚更多的收入，但它可能会持续更短。
So, in the long run, I probably would have made less because-
所以，从长远来看，我可能赚得更少，因为-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
just too many distractions.
只是太多的干扰。
I wanted to keep away from everything.
我想远离一切。
And it's different days then.
那是不同的日子。
Everything is the magazines.
一切都是杂志。
So with the magazines, I would come here, do the Mr. Olympia, do one week of intensive photograph sessions, video, everything for the magazines, so they have enough material for a year.
因此，对于杂志，我会来这里，扮演奥林匹亚先生，为杂志进行一周的密集摄影、视频和一切，这样他们就有足够一年的材料。
Then I simply disappear and go home, and nobody would see me.
然后我就消失并回家，没有人会看到我。
There's no social media.
没有社交媒体。
You don't need to keep up the constant flow of attention in order to earn income.
你不需要为了赚取收入而保持持续的注意力。
I earn my prize money.
我赚我的奖金。
I got my contracts.
我拿到了合同。
I go home and start work again.
我回家又开始工作。
And I loved it.
我喜欢它。
I loved having that mission.
我喜欢承担这个使命。
But I can tell you something, it's very difficult to find a picture of me smiling because I was so intense in this tunnel, and at the end, there was no joy in it.
但我可以告诉你一件事，很难找到一张我微笑的照片，因为我在这条隧道里太紧张了，到最后，里面没有任何快乐。
The last year, '97, I remember getting ready for the contest.
去年，97 年，我记得为比赛做准备。
I'm like, "Wow, this feels like Groundhog Day.
我想，“哇，这感觉就像土拨鼠之日。
I've done this process so many times." And I started to think, "This is starting to feel like a job." It was, but it was a passion more.
这个过程我已经做过很多次了。”我开始想，“这开始感觉像是一份工作了。”是的，但更多的是一种激情。
It was a bit of both, right?
两者兼而有之，对吧？
But now it's starting to feel like a job, and I start to think about what am I going to do after this.
但现在它开始感觉像是一份工作，我开始思考之后我要做什么。
Because I don't want to feel like that.
因为我不想有那样的感觉。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sounds like I'm just jocking you, but I'm telling you, that's a very wise perspective because a lot of people don't want to let go.
听起来我只是在开玩笑，但我告诉你，这是一个非常明智的观点，因为很多人不想放手。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They don't see themselves in anything else, and therefore they don't know what to do.
他们在其他事情上看不到自己，因此他们不知道该怎么做。
Also, when you reach a certain level in anything, it becomes easier to just make a little bit more money over here.
而且，当你在任何事情上达到一定水平时，在这里赚更多的钱就会变得更容易。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Get a little, I mean-
得到一点，我的意思是-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Plus, you're the king there, man
另外，你是那里的国王，伙计
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
people will just pay you to be in the room.
人们只会付钱给你进入房间。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You're the king there.
你是那里的国王。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You're the king, right?
你是国王，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So maybe you don't want to give that up.
所以也许你不想放弃它。
So yeah, it was tough, and I observed a lot of athletes from different sports, how they really struggle.
所以，是的，这很艰难，我观察了很多来自不同运动项目的运动员，他们是如何挣扎的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Because yes, you can still go to the gym and lift weights, but why are you doing it now?
因为是的，你仍然可以去健身房举重，但你为什么现在才这样做呢？
That absolute tunnel that you put yourself in, like you go in a battle every day for this goal, that in itself is a high.
你把自己置于绝对的隧道中，就像你每天为这个目标而奋斗一样，这本身就是一种高潮。
The dopamine, as you say, as the chase.
正如你所说，多巴胺就像追逐。
A competition is once a year.
比赛每年一次。
For me, at least, it was once a year.
至少对我来说，这是一年一次。
So it's the whole year that you-
所以这一整年你-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's that notebook
就是那个笔记本
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
you're aiming on that target.
你正在瞄准那个目标。
I can see that day.
我能看到那一天。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
The whole year, I'm thinking about that day like I'm in a tunnel.
整整一年，我都在想着那一天，就像我在隧道里一样。
Or probably my best friend is like, "It's great to hang out with you now because you're in the room." He said, "I'd be with you before, but I'm well aware that your mind was not there." Now you're like, "Here, now I'm enjoying life." Then I couldn't afford to really enjoy it.
或者我最好的朋友可能会说，“现在和你一起出去玩真是太好了，因为你就在房间里。”他说：“我以前会和你在一起，但我很清楚你的心思不在那儿。”现在你会想，“在这里，现在我正在享受生活。”然后我就无法真正享受它了。
I'm on a mission here.
我来这里是有任务的。
I'm in a war or whatever I had in my head.
我正处于一场战争或者我脑子里的任何事情中。
But it's a huge part of my life.
但这是我生活的重要组成部分。
Without that, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you now.
没有它，我现在就不会坐在这里和你说话。
I wouldn't have met my wife.
我就不会遇见我的妻子。
She's a competitor as well.
她也是一个竞争对手。
So many things.
这么多的事情。
So I knew I had to do it, and now it's obvious why.
所以我知道我必须这样做，现在原因很明显了。
And I think, I've had people coming up to me with tears in their eyes, many people saying, "Bro, I know you don't know me, but you saved my life.
我想，有人眼里含着泪水来找我，很多人说：“兄弟，我知道你不认识我，但你救了我的命。
Just something you said or you did, or inspire me," and this is like fucking, this is worth more than the Mr. Olympia trophy.
只是你说过的话或做过的事，或者激励了我，”这就像他妈的，这比奥林匹亚先生奖杯更有价值。
So I did it for myself.
所以我为自己做的。
It was a selfish pursuit.
这是一种自私的追求。
It's bodybuilding, it's all about you.
这是健身，一切都取决于你。
But now it's changed into something else where I can use my position, my influence, and at my age, my life experience, to help and inspire many people.
但现在它变成了别的东西，我可以利用我的职位、我的影响力、我的年龄、我的生活经历来帮助和激励很多人。
And maybe that's the whole point of the thing-
也许这就是事情的全部意义——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Hmm
嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
ultimately.
最终。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There was a plan you weren't aware of.
有一个你不知道的计划。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
I just know I had to do it.
我只知道我必须这么做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Not I want to.
不是我想要的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I have to, my life depends on this.
我必须这么做，我的生活就靠这个了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
That was my mentality.
这就是我的心态。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I certainly get that feeling, and I can say for myself and many others that you have really inspired me.
嗯，我当然有这种感觉，我可以为自己和其他许多人说，你确实激励了我。
I had, as I said, no aspirations of becoming a bodybuilder, but the idea that I could strengthen my body and most importantly, do things differently than everyone else said, and know that it works.
正如我所说，我并没有成为一名健美运动员的愿望，但我的想法是，我可以增强我的身体，最重要的是，做与其他人所说的不同的事情，并且知道它是有效的。
I think that as much as the titles that you've achieved and your backstory is super impressive and all of that stands forever, right?
我认为，尽管你所获得的头衔和你的背景故事都非常令人印象深刻，但所有这些都是永远存在的，对吧？
You're on the Rushmore of bodybuilding, that's for sure.
毫无疑问，你正处于健美界的巅峰。
This notion in that you went about it differently, right?
这个想法意味着你采取了不同的方式，对吧？
Like you said, you weren't out in California.
就像你说的，你不在加州。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They called you The Shadow because you disappear and then come back.
他们称你为“影子”，因为你消失了然后又回来了。
The way you trained, the low volume, high intensity training, I don't think people realize just how opposite that was to everything that was being thrown at people.
你的训练方式，低容量、高强度的训练，我认为人们没有意识到这与人们所接受的一切是多么相反。
And so what it told me was that one should trust experience-
所以它告诉我人们应该相信经验——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and try things at the margins safely, because oftentimes there's real pearls there.
并安全地尝试边缘事物，因为那里通常有真正的珍珠。
And when there is, you have to discard of everything else you hear.
当出现这种情况时，你必须丢弃你听到的所有其他内容。
And I hear I'm talking about fitness, but I've seen this in my science career-
我听说我在谈论健身，但我在我的科学生涯中看到过这一点 -
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Anything
任何东西
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in media and podcasting.
在媒体和播客领域。
The number of people that told me, "Don't do a podcast." Close family members and scientists told me-
有多少人告诉我“不要做播客”。亲密的家庭成员和科学家告诉我——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
"What are you doing?" And it's like now they're coming to me asking, "Hey, do you have a job?
“你在做什么？”就像现在他们来找我问：“嘿，你有工作吗？
Because I want to get out of this science thing."
因为我想摆脱科学的束缚。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
It's funny, isn't it?
很有趣，不是吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a grind.
这是一个磨砺。
Oh, you know it.
哦，你知道的。
And like you said, you catch so much friction early on.
正如你所说，你很早就遇到了很多摩擦。
There must be something that pulls iconoclasts forward.
一定有什么东西可以推动反传统者前进。
It's like you said, "I have to do it."
就像你说的：“我必须这么做。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yes, have to do it.
是的，必须这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Despite everything else that's happening.
尽管发生了其他一切。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Doesn't matter what's happening, man.
发生什么并不重要，伙计。
I had to do it.
我必须这么做。
And day by day, I was very conscious, I need to do my best today, every day.
日复一日，我非常清醒，我今天、每一天都需要尽力而为。
And in that tunnel.
在那条隧道里。
And, also, post-career, I talk about my experiences then and depression and so on.
而且，在职业生涯结束后，我也会谈论我当时的经历和抑郁症等等。
This can affect anybody, and actually it affects a lot of athletes from that extreme.
这可以影响任何人，实际上它影响了很多处于这种极端情况的运动员。
You're in the extreme tunnel, stress, goals-
你正处于极端的隧道、压力、目标-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
and then it's suddenly gone.
然后它突然消失了。
So you don't have this goal that was, in a way, giving you a lot of dopamine.
所以你的目标在某种程度上并没有给你带来大量的多巴胺。
You can go to the gym, but there's no purpose now, really.
你可以去健身房，但现在真的没有任何意义了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I know someone whose child just went off to university.
我认识一个人，他的孩子刚刚上大学。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they were so committed as a single parent that they're in a little bit of an existential crisis right now.
作为单亲父母，他们是如此忠诚，以至于他们现在陷入了一点生存危机。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, they don't have that thing now.
是的，他们现在没有那个东西了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Who am I without that role?
如果没有这个角色我是谁？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they'll figure it out, but I think it's athletes-
他们会解决这个问题，但我认为是运动员——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Takes time
需要时间
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I think it's this identity thing.
我认为这就是身份问题。
So where's that boundary between you need to identify with something as it being you and you are it in order to really go to great heights-
那么，为了真正达到伟大的高度，你需要认同某事物是你，而你就是它，两者之间的界限在哪里——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in anything, but then you also have to be able to dissociate from that identity piece.
任何事情，但你也必须能够与那个身份部分分离。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Well, that's the question.
嗯，这就是问题所在。
Who am I?
我是谁？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
That was the question, who am I now?
这就是问题所在，我现在是谁？
What am I going to do with life?
我要做什么？
What am I supposed to do?
我该怎么办？
I was only 35, and I've retired.
我当时才35岁，已经退休了。
It's like when a guy retires at 60, even if he's just been working in a bank or whatever, it's very often that they get depressed because they're going to work every day, and they don't have this, it's not a mission, but they don't have this routine anymore.
就像一个人60岁退休时，即使他只是在银行或其他地方工作，他们也常常会感到沮丧，因为他们每天都要工作，而他们没有这个，这不是使命，但他们不再有这个例行公事了。
They don't know what they're supposed to do with their time.
他们不知道自己应该用自己的时间做什么。
Imagine the intensity of an athlete, and then that's not there anymore.
想象一下运动员的强度，然后就不再存在了。
So it took me time to change the mindset from, "Oh, look what I've lost, and I don't know who I am anymore because I was the king and now I'm not," or whatever, to like, yeah, but there was a lot of things I couldn't do then.
所以我花了一些时间来改变心态，从“哦，看看我失去了什么，我不知道我是谁了，因为我是国王，但现在我不是了”，或者其他什么，喜欢，是的，但当时有很多事情我无法做。
My life was so restricted then.
那时我的生活受到了很大的限制。
I wouldn't even go out if I'm going to get back after 10:30 because I got to be in bed at 11:00.
如果我要在 10:30 后回来，我什至不会出去，因为我必须在 11:00 上床睡觉。
This was all year.
这是一整年。
It wasn't just for competition.
这不仅仅是为了竞争。
Now I'm doing fairly well financially.
现在我的经济状况相当不错。
I don't have to do anything that I don't want to do, and I can go and I've always been in love with animals and wildlife, and I used to sponsor mountain gorillas in Rwanda and Uganda because there was only 600 of them in the world.
我不必做任何我不想做的事情，我可以去，而且我一直热爱动物和野生动物，我曾经资助过卢旺达和乌干达的山地大猩猩，因为世界上只有 600 只山地大猩猩。
So I used to sponsor them.
所以我曾经赞助过他们。
So one of the first things I did was went on a safari out to Uganda, gorilla trekking in the mountains, and I couldn't do that before.
所以我做的第一件事就是去乌干达探险，在山里徒步旅行大猩猩，而我以前做不到。
Maybe I could, but in my mind I couldn't.
也许我可以，但在我看来我不能。
I didn't want to take the time off.
我不想请假。
So it started to open up more possibilities slowly, but it probably took me a couple of years to start to come to terms with it.
所以它开始慢慢地开启更多的可能性，但我可能花了几年的时间才开始接受它。
I had a business.
我有生意。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You had kids, too, right?
你也有孩子了，对吧？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I had a son.
我有一个儿子。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, at that point, who was coming to end of school age.
是的，那时，他就快要结束学龄了。
I had a business, but it's like- And it's not that exciting.
我有一份生意，但它就像-而且并不那么令人兴奋。
There's not that passion.
没有那种热情。
So I decided I can do lots of other things, and slowly, I started to get comfortable with it.
所以我决定我可以做很多其他的事情，慢慢地，我开始适应它。
And I'm whatever I want to be.
我就是我想成为的任何人。
I'm not Mr. Olympia.
我不是奥林匹亚先生。
You're not a scientist.
你不是科学家。
It's what you do.
这就是你所做的。
It's not who you are, right?
这不是你，对吧？
It's what you're doing at the point of time.
这就是你此时此刻正在做的事情。
So, it was a whole journey of exploration, and I've always been very good at why.
所以，这是一个完整的探索之旅，我一直很清楚其中的原因。
I was 21 years old, I started bodybuilding.
我21岁那年，开始健身。
Why?
为什么？
Why is that the best way to train?
为什么这是最好的训练方式？
Just because everyone's doing it?
就因为大家都这么做？
Am I sure?
我确定吗？
Tried it out.
尝试了一下。
No. It's better to train more briefly.
不，最好进行更简短的训练。
I get better results.
我得到了更好的结果。
So fortunately, I always had that independence of thought, even though the guys at the gym saying I'm wrong.
幸运的是，我一直拥有独立的思想，尽管健身房里的人说我错了。
I'm like, "Okay.
我想，“好吧。
You're right.
你是对的。
Thank you."
谢谢你。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's really interesting because we've created this little backdrop, this kind of ghost of Mike Mentzer.
这真的很有趣，因为我们创造了这个小背景，迈克·门泽尔的鬼魂。
And for those of you-
对于你们来说——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
who don't know him, he barked when he spoke.
不认识他的人，他说话时会咆哮。
He was a real iconoclast.
他是一个真正的反传统者。
He carried this bitterness for never having become Mr. Olympia.
他因从未成为奥林匹亚先生而感到痛苦。
And-
还有——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I think Mike was too rigid-
我觉得迈克太死板了-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm
毫米
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
in his thoughts.
在他的想法中。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You got to be a little bit flexible.
你必须要灵活一点。
Yes, mostly he was right, but maybe for this guy is-- You got to be a little bit flexible.
是的，大多数情况下他是对的，但也许对这个人来说——你必须灵活一点。
And I think he was a bit too extreme in the end, like training once every 10 or 12 days and so on.
而且我觉得他最后有点太极端了，比如10天、12天训练一次等等。
But-
但是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he became unhealthy, right?
他变得不健康了，对吗？
He smoked.
他抽烟。
He-
他——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, this-
是的，这个——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He was open about him-
他对他持开放态度——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
I didn't understand.
我不明白。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
This-
这——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Amphetamine use and this kind of thing.
使用安非他明之类的东西。
Yeah
是啊
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
I still don't understand it.
我还是不明白。
I still don't understand.
我还是不明白。
I understand ex-bodybuilders or athletes that don't want to maintain their peak.
我了解不想保持巅峰状态的前健美运动员或运动员。
Of course, it's ridiculous.
当然，这是荒谬的。
You can't as you get older.
随着年龄的增长你就不能了。
But I didn't understand somebody that was in health, fitness, bodybuilding that suddenly didn't want to exercise and got overweight and smoked cigarettes and so on.
但我不明白那些在健康、健身、健美方面的人突然不想锻炼、体重超标、抽烟等等。
I didn't really understand that.
我不太明白。
That was one thing I didn't get with Mike.
这是我和迈克没有达成一致的一件事。
He was very pissed off about the Mr. Olympia, the Arnold one in 1980, and got disillusioned with the sport, and he carried it around with him.
他对 1980 年的“奥林匹亚先生”、“阿诺德”感到非常恼火，并对这项运动感到失望，但他却把它带在身边。
It was one of the first conversations we had.
这是我们最早的谈话之一。
When we first met, he told me Arnold is not going to like me, and I said, "Well, not that I really care, but why do you think that?" And he's like, "Because you're better than him." Well, it's debatable, but let's say if I was, why would Arnold give a fuck?
当我们第一次见面时，他告诉我阿诺德不会喜欢我，我说，“好吧，并不是我真的在乎，但你为什么这么想呢？”他说：“因为你比他更好。”好吧，这是有争议的，但假设我是的话，阿诺德为什么会在乎呢？
He's making movies, 20 mil a movie.
他在拍电影，一部电影两千万。
I wouldn't give a shit if I was him.
如果我是他，我就不会在意。
He's like, "You don't understand Arnold." So, he was carrying this still around with him, which it wasn't healthy, I guess.
他说，“你不了解阿诺德。”所以，他随身带着这个，我猜这不健康。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't know, and I'm not a psychologist, but I'm going to venture that he wanted to be a winner, the winner, more than he probably loved the fitness piece and the training piece.
我不知道，我也不是心理学家，但我敢打赌，他想成为一个胜利者，胜利者，比他可能更喜欢健身片和训练片。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I say that because it sounds like I'm name-dropping here, but I'm fortunate to be very good friends with the great Rick Rubin, right?
我这么说是因为这听起来像是我在这里抛头露面，但我很幸运能与伟大的里克·鲁宾成为非常好的朋友，对吧？
And Rick has worked with so many amazing artists, and he'll tell me stories sometimes about people who really didn't make music or do comedy because they loved music and comedy.
里克（Rick）与许多出色的艺术家合作过，有时他会给我讲一些故事，这些人实际上并不制作音乐或喜剧，因为他们热爱音乐和喜剧。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
They wanted to be loved.
他们想要被爱。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When they got maybe attacked about a song not being as good as their last song, it crushed them.
当他们因为某首歌不如上一首歌而受到攻击时，他们感到崩溃。
And he would say, "Just go back and make music."
他会说：“回去做音乐吧。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Do what you want.
做你想做的事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And this is one of the things that makes Rick so brilliant.
这也是瑞克如此出色的原因之一。
But then he eventually, he would share these stories, in private, of course, that some people aren't doing the thing for the thing.
但最终他会私下分享这些故事，当然，有些人并不是为了做事而做事。
It's about they weren't loved as a kid, or they need the adoration.
这是因为他们小时候没有被爱，或者他们需要崇拜。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so it's not Rick-- Maybe Mike could, we're speculating here, but could smoke cigarettes and let himself be out of shape because it wasn't really about bodybuilding.
所以这不是里克——也许迈克可以，我们在这里推测，但可以抽烟并让自己变形，因为这并不是真正的健美。
He just maybe needed to be a champion so he could validate something.
他也许只是需要成为冠军，这样他才能验证一些事情。
We don't know, right?
我们不知道，对吧？
But-
但是——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I always got the impression with Mike that it wasn't really anything to do with health.
我一直对迈克的印象是，这与健康无关。
It's not at competitive level, let's say.
可以说，这不是竞争水平。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Maybe it could be-
也许它可能是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But you can be healthy with it
但你可以通过它保持健康
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
unhealthy.
不健康。
But I love to train, man.
但我喜欢训练，伙计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It doesn't matter what it is.
它是什么并不重要。
I could hike, I could ride a bike, could do Pilates, I could do yoga.
我可以徒步旅行，我可以骑自行车，可以做普拉提，我可以做瑜伽。
Done boxing, done loads of things.
完成了拳击，完成了很多事情。
But I just like to exercise, and I like to feel good, and it's nothing competitive anymore.
但我只是喜欢锻炼，喜欢感觉良好，不再有什么竞争力了。
It's like, this is my vehicle that I've got to experience life in a physical reality.
就好像，这是我的交通工具，我必须在物理现实中体验生活。
This is it.
就是这样。
If this isn't working well, I'm not going to have much fun.
如果这不能很好地发挥作用，我就不会玩得很开心。
I'm not going to have a good quality of life.
我不会有好的生活质量。
And what do I want for the next however long?
接下来无论多久我想要什么？
I want to be functional.
我想变得实用。
I want to be able to do these things that I love to do, and I want to be around and be healthy for my kids.
我希望能够做这些我喜欢做的事情，我希望陪伴在我的孩子们身边并保持健康。
And I just love to exercise, man.
我只是喜欢锻炼，伙计。
I do something every day, different things, not lifting weights.
我每天都做一些不同的事情，但不是举重。
I do that maybe couple of times a week, moderate weights, because I don't want to.
我可能每周都会这样做几次，适度的重量，因为我不想这样做。
I've got injuries.
我有伤。
I've got a torn bicep on this side, a torn tricep tendon, and some shoulder issues.
我这边的二头肌撕裂，三头肌肌腱撕裂，还有一些肩膀问题。
I don't have any pain or anything, but it's just mechanically, my right side is stronger than my left, so I have to-
我没有任何疼痛或任何东西，但这只是机械性的，我的右侧比左侧更强，所以我必须-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You look awesome
你看起来棒极了
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
compensate a little bit.
补偿一点点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You look lean and strong.
你看起来又瘦又壮。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
I'm lean.
我很瘦。
I'm strong.
我很坚强。
I don't push too much with the weights.
我不会用重物推太多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you've kept your height.
而且你还保持了身高。
A lot of people who don't train-
很多不训练的人
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It's interesting, man
这很有趣，伙计
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
start to shrink.
开始收缩。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I didn't keep my height.
我没有保持身高。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really?
真的吗？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I got taller.
我长高了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Did you really?
你真的吗？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
No, I saw that I posted about a month ago, six weeks on my page, just teasing people.
不，我看到我大约一个月前，六周前在我的页面上发布的内容，只是在戏弄人们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Because I went to get some orthotics in my shoes-
因为我去给鞋子装了一些矫形器-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
to balance out.
来平衡。
And the guy's got the measuring thing.
那家伙有测量的东西。
So I just stood on it, and it said, "You're 183." Like, 180?
所以我就站在上面，它说：“你183岁。”比如，180？
I've never been more than 180 before.
我以前从来没有超过180。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Metric system, folks.
公制系统，伙计们。
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Right?
对吗？
It's like six foot, right?
好像有六英尺吧？
I was 5'10" and a half, 5'11" maybe.
我当时身高 5 英尺 10 英寸半，也许是 5 英尺 11 英寸。
So did I physically grow bone?
那么我的身体长出了骨头吗？
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's what I thought, because I'm 6'1".
这就是我的想法，因为我身高 6 英尺 1 英寸。
I heard you're 5'10".
我听说你身高 5 英尺 10 英寸。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Walked in thinking maybe.
走进去思考也许。
People usually lose a little bit of height unless they train real hard, and they make sure to take very care of themselves.
人们通常会失去一点身高，除非他们非常努力地训练，并且他们一定要照顾好自己。
And then I walk in, and yeah, you're about six feet.
然后我走进去，是的，你大约有六英尺。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But the thing is Why?
但问题是为什么？
Because I've been doing Pilates and functional training and resetting the shoulders back.
因为我一直在做普拉提和功能训练以及重置肩膀。
My posture is much better.
我的姿势好多了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So I'm standing straighter, which gives me an extra inch of height.
所以我站得更直了，这让我的身高增加了一英寸。
So I've actually got taller.
所以我实际上长高了。
No, I haven't taken huge amounts of growth hormone and suddenly grew when I was 60 years old.
不，我没有服用大量的生长激素，60岁的时候突然长高了。
It's just my posture and the way I stand.
这只是我的姿势和站立方式。
There's less curvature of the shoulder there.
那里肩膀的弧度较小。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So you lose a bit of height because when you lift and your pecs get bigger and your lats, your shoulders rotate forward, you're trying to hunch forward, so you're sitting a little bit lower.
所以你会失去一点身高，因为当你举重时，你的胸肌会变大，你的背阔肌会变大，你的肩膀会向前旋转，你会试图向前驼背，所以你的坐姿会低一些。
I didn't even know.
我什至不知道。
I was like measuring myself, like wow, that's just because I'm standing straighter and my shoulders are back.
我就像在测量自己，哇，那只是因为我站得更直了，我的肩膀向后倾斜了。
Thus that cervical arch-
因此颈椎弓——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
it's straighter now.
现在更直了。
And-
还有——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What we call the text neck-
我们所说的文字颈——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for the kids.
为了孩子们。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
These poor kids with the-
这些可怜的孩子们——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Head forward, shoulders forward.
头向前，肩膀向前。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You know, a lot of boxers have it because they're always forward with their shoulders.
你知道，很多拳击手都有这种情况，因为他们的肩膀总是向前。
So I've just got my posture really good.
所以我的姿势非常好。
I've done yoga for seven years.
我练瑜伽七年了。
I've done Pilates, do some functional training.
我做了普拉提，做了一些功能训练。
So it's all about getting this thing into the best shape.
所以这一切都是为了让这个东西达到最佳状态。
I don't have any pain, joint pains.
我没有任何疼痛，关节痛。
I had hip replacement 14 months ago-
14个月前我做了髋关节置换手术-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
which is great.
这太棒了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And you're just on the logos-
而你只是在标志上-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So I train for what I need.
所以我训练是为了我需要的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
What do I need right now?
我现在需要什么？
I need some good cardio, but not excessive, so I do some sprints and some bikes outside.
我需要一些良好的有氧运动，但不要过度，所以我会在户外进行一些短跑和骑自行车。
I do a little weight training in order to maintain, not trying to build nothing, just trying to maintain.
我做一些重量训练是为了维持，不是试图增加任何东西，只是试图维持。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What's the split?
分裂是什么？
People are going to want to know.
人们会想知道。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I don't even have a split, man.
我什至没有分裂，伙计。
I go in, I generally do some upper body once a week and some lower body once a week.
我进去后，一般每周做一次上半身，每周做一次下半身。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some pushing, pulling, some-
有的推，有的拉，有的——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
yeah
是的
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I do things that I can do.
我做我能做的事情。
With chest and shoulders, it's very light because of the pushing.
胸部和肩膀，因为推力而很轻。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So I do some dumbbell press.
所以我会做一些哑铃推举。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Any compound movements for your lower body?
有什么适合下半身的复合动作吗？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
At this point, no, because my legs are really big.
在这一点上，不，因为我的腿真的很大。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Because I didn't have any injuries on the lower body-
因为我下半身没有受伤——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
I think I've maintained a lot more muscle mass here.
我想我在这里保持了更多的肌肉质量。
So I do bike.
所以我骑自行车。
I do some, what's it called, Bulgarian squats with light weights, so I can do one side at a time.
我会做一些轻重量的保加利亚深蹲，这样我就可以一次做一侧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But heavy leg presses and things like that, why?
但是重压腿之类的事情，为什么呢？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well-
嗯-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Why would I do it?
我为什么要这么做？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It's because potentially-
这是因为有可能——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
risking an injury, and yeah, you can leg press a ton of weight, but you can't touch your toes.
冒着受伤的风险，是的，你可以用很大的重量压腿，但你不能碰脚趾。
What's the point?
有什么意义？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, and you're also maintaining some muscle that you've laid down for many decades prior.
嗯，而且你还保持了几十年前积累的一些肌肉。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
It's not going to go anywhere-
它不会去任何地方-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
as long as it gets a little bit of stimulation.
只要受到一点点的刺激。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商之一 Function。
Last year, I became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
去年，在寻找最全面的实验室测试方法后，我成为了 Function 成员。
Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health.
Function 提供 100 多项高级实验室测试，为您提供整个身体健康状况的关键快照。
This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more.
此快照为您提供有关心脏健康、激素健康、免疫功能、营养水平等方面的见解。
They've also recently added tests for toxins, such as BPA exposure from harmful plastics, and tests for PFAS, or forever chemicals.
他们最近还增加了毒素测试，例如有害塑料中的 BPA 暴露，以及 PFAS 或永久化学物质的测试。
Function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas.
Function 不仅提供对您的身心健康至关重要的 100 多种生物标记物的测试，而且还分析这些结果并提供相关领域专家的顶级医生的见解。
For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood.
例如，在我第一次使用 Function 进行测试时，我发现我的血液中汞含量升高。
Function not only helped me detect that but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, I'd been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC, N-acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification.
功能不仅帮助我发现了这一点，还提供了如何最好地降低汞含量的见解，其中包括限制我的金枪鱼消费，我一直在吃大量金枪鱼，同时还努力多吃绿叶蔬菜并补充 NAC、N-乙酰半胱氨酸，这两者都可以支持谷胱甘肽的产生和解毒。
And I should say, by taking a second Function test, that approach worked.
我应该说，通过进行第二次功能测试，这种方法奏效了。
Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important.
全面的血液检测至关重要。
There are so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test.
有很多与您的心理和身体健康相关的事情只能通过血液检查来检测。
The problem is blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated.
问题是血液检测一直非常昂贵且复杂。
In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost.
相比之下，Function 的简单性和成本水平给我留下了深刻的印象。
It is very affordable.
这是非常实惠的。
As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.
因此，我决定加入他们的科学顾问委员会，我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。
If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
如果您想尝试 Function，可以访问 functionhealth.com/huberman。
Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people.
目前，Function 的等候名单已超过 250,000 人。
But they're offering early access to Huberman podcast listeners.
但他们正在为 Huberman 播客听众提供早期访问服务。
Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.
同样，可以通过 functionhealth.com/huberman 提前访问 Function。
For people that are interested in longevity who are maybe a little bit, quote unquote, "lighter boned," do you think they should emphasize cardio more and strength less, or the opposite?
对于那些对长寿感兴趣的人，或者说，“骨骼较轻”，你认为他们应该更多地强调有氧运动，更少地强调力量，还是相反？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whereas you are able to get away with doing quite a lot of cardio, Pilates, and yoga, but you don't need much resistance training.
虽然你可以做大量的有氧运动、普拉提和瑜伽，但你不需要太多的阻力训练。
And we don't talk about this anymore.
我们不再谈论这个了。
It used to be endomorph, ectomorph, and mesomorph.
它曾经是内胚型、外胚型和中胚型。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nobody talks like that anymore.
没有人再这样说话了。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I had excessive amounts of muscle mass-
我的肌肉量过多-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
actually.
实际上。
I was, a few years ago, still at 250.
几年前，我还只有250岁。
Just on TRT and some training.
只是进行 TRT 和一些训练。
And I went for a checkup.
我去做了检查。
My blood pressure was a bit high, and it just triggered something in me.
我的血压有点高，这触发了我体内的某些东西。
I've been eating still like a bodybuilder.
我一直像健美运动员一样吃东西。
Frequent meals, chicken breast and rice.
多餐，鸡胸肉和米饭。
I don't know, it's just habit, so I kept doing it.
我不知道，这只是习惯，所以我一直这样做。
I said, "I'm going to go on a lower protein diet, more plant-based, and lose some weight," right?
我说，“我要采取低蛋白饮食，多吃植物性饮食，并减轻一些体重，”对吗？
But which weight I'm going to lose?
但我要减掉哪个体重呢？
I'm not fat, so I guess I'm going to lose muscle mass.
我不胖，所以我想我会失去肌肉质量。
But it was interesting exercise in that I dedicated my whole earlier life to building muscle mass.
但这是一项有趣的运动，因为我一生都致力于增强肌肉质量。
Now I'm actively trying to lose it, for health reasons, but also I wanted to check my ego.
现在，出于健康原因，我正在积极尝试失去它，但我也想检查我的自我。
You know?
你知道？
I think everyone else was more concerned than me about, oh, he's looking skinny now and everything.
我想其他人都比我更关心，哦，他现在看起来很瘦等等。
I don't care.
我不在乎。
I don't care.
我不在乎。
I'm just doing what I think is best for my health.
我只是做我认为对我的健康最有利的事情。
I'm losing some weight because I think if you're carrying a lot of weight when you get older, even if it's muscle, I don't think it's ideal, right?
我正在减掉一些体重，因为我认为，如果你随着年龄的增长而承受很大的重量，即使是肌肉，我认为这并不理想，对吧？
So I brought my weight down from 250 to 230 and At that point, I put more protein and fat.
所以我把体重从 250 降到了 230，然后我摄入了更多的蛋白质和脂肪。
So right now I eat probably twice a day in between 12:00 and 10:00 and might have a shake or something like that.
所以现在我可能每天在 12:00 到 10:00 之间吃两次东西，并且可能会喝一杯奶昔或类似的东西。
So it's more higher protein and fats, a bit less carbs, intermittent fasting, and I feel great on it.
所以它是更高的蛋白质和脂肪，更少的碳水化合物，间歇性禁食，我对此感觉很好。
I go in the morning, get up, do my things.
我早上去，起床，做我的事情。
And speaking about breathing, I came a lot more conscious about that through doing yoga practices.
说到呼吸，通过练习瑜伽，我对此更加有意识。
At one point, I really got into yoga and the breathing, different breathing techniques or different things.
在某一时刻，我真正迷上了瑜伽和呼吸，不同的呼吸技巧或不同的东西。
You can do breathing to produce DMT and you can really shift yourself just with breathing.
你可以通过呼吸来产生DMT，并且仅仅通过呼吸你就可以真正改变自己。
It's amazing what you can do.
你能做的事情真是令人惊奇。
So I went through all that and became much more conscious about breathing and trying to breathe through the nose.
所以我经历了这一切，对呼吸变得更加有意识，并尝试通过鼻子呼吸。
Where in the gym you're naturally got your mouth open and trying to gulp in as much oxygen as I can.
在健身房里，你会自然地张开嘴，尽力吸入尽可能多的氧气。
So, breathing's definitely important and when I'm doing yoga, try to breathe through the nose and become more conscious about breathing and I feel like I can speak to my whole body.
所以，呼吸绝对重要，当我做瑜伽时，尝试通过鼻子呼吸，对呼吸变得更加有意识，我觉得我可以对我的整个身体说话。
Like anywhere I want to go, speak to my cells, contact my organs and check in with them and make sure everything's all right.
就像我想去的任何地方一样，与我的细胞交谈，联系我的器官并检查它们并确保一切正常。
I had exterior muscle consciousness, but nothing else.
我有外部肌肉意识，但除此之外什么都没有。
Now I'm whole body conscious and health has a lot to do with the mind.
现在我的全身意识都增强了，健康与心灵有很大关系。
Maybe more than we even realize.
也许比我们意识到的还要多。
I think unresolved traumas leads to a lot of disease, so it's good to explore yourself and your mind and how you look at things, and maybe change the way you look at things and don't carry this weight around.
我认为未解决的创伤会导致很多疾病，所以探索你自己和你的思想以及你如何看待事物是件好事，也许可以改变你看待事物的方式并且不要背负这种负担。
I have a friend that practices different kinds of medicines and he had three cancers and is convinced that it's trauma-based.
我有一个朋友使用不同种类的药物，他患有三种癌症，并且确信这是由创伤引起的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, certainly there are data and there are a lot of real-life examples where when people hold in their pain and in particular shame-
嗯，当然有数据，也有很多现实生活中的例子，当人们压抑痛苦，特别是羞耻时——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it causes disease.
它会导致疾病。
We've had a couple guests that have talked about this.
我们有几位客人谈论过这个问题。
But it's kind of interesting, the original naming of the Type A personality was all around people who were prone to heart attack-
不过有点有趣的是，A型人格最初的命名都是围绕着容易心脏病发作的人——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
because they didn't actually let out what was going on for them.
因为他们实际上并没有透露自己发生了什么。
And it's been a ride for the psychology science world to try and figure this out.
对于心理学界来说，尝试解决这个问题是一次漫长的旅程。
I think we'd be remiss if we don't talk a little bit about psychedelics and your experience with those.
我认为如果我们不谈谈迷幻药以及您使用这些药物的经历，那就是失职了。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I want to preface that with saying that my understanding is that right now you're not a psychonaut, but you-
但我想在序言中说，我的理解是，现在你不是一个心理宇航员，而是你——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
No
否
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
did explore, which I find really interesting because people think if you start something, you got to do it forever.
确实进行了探索，我觉得这非常有趣，因为人们认为如果你开始做某事，你就必须永远做下去。
With the exception of maybe fitness and sleep-
除了健身和睡眠之外——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and all the basic health stuff.
以及所有基本的健康物品。
What's so striking is it seems like you're able to go into something deep, get the best of it, and then get out.
令人惊奇的是，你似乎能够深入研究某件事，充分利用它，然后退出。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, that's what I did with psychedelics.
是的，我就是用迷幻药做的。
I wouldn't say I'll never do psychedelics again-
我不会说我再也不会服用迷幻药了-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure
当然可以
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
because I may be in a different space and may feel the need to do it.
因为我可能处于不同的空间并且可能觉得有必要这样做。
But I went through that whole experience and it was amazing.
但我经历了整个经历，这真是太棒了。
It gives you a totally different perspective on life.
它给你一个完全不同的人生视角。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You said '97 was the last Olympia.
你说97年是最后一届奥林匹亚。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You realize you're done.
你意识到你已经完成了。
'98 through 2000, you're kind of going through a reframe?
从 98 年到 2000 年，你正在经历一次重构吗？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
A whole lot of things happened as well in my personal life.
我的个人生活中也发生了很多事情。
My nephew passed away at 15 years old in my house, and there was no explanation.
我的侄子15岁时在我家去世，没有任何解释。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It was very close.
非常接近。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, so sorry.
哦，很抱歉。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
My marriage was...
我的婚姻是...
Everything was falling apart.
一切都崩溃了。
Everything was falling apart in my life, but maybe it had to, to get reorganized.
我生活中的一切都在崩溃，但也许必须重新组织。
And, I think where I went through a period, like I just want to have fun here and just, I don't want to really go too deeply into stuff because it was, I kind of get into it, and it was too heavy, so I'm like, "I'm just going to have fun." And, later on a friend of mine was like, "You should try DMT." He was over in California, and he had some pharma-grade stuff, and I read-
而且，我认为我经历了一段时期，就像我只是想在这里玩得开心，只是，我不想太深入地研究东西，因为它是，我有点陷入其中，而且它太沉重了，所以我想，“我只是想玩得开心。”后来我的一个朋友说，“你应该尝试 DMT。”他在加利福尼亚州，他有一些药品级的东西，我读到-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Only in California.
仅在加利福尼亚州。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, I read this book when I was living in Amsterdam for a couple of years.
是的，我在阿姆斯特丹生活了几年时读了这本书。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
There was no internet, so I read this book, "DMT: The Spirit Molecule."
没有互联网，所以我读了这本书，《DMT：精神分子》。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You can get that all about DMT.
您可以了解有关 DMT 的一切。
So I'd heard about it.
所以我听说过这件事。
I'm like, "Yeah, I heard about that stuff." So we got the powder, and I smoked it, and I saw the behind-reality, if you like, the construction, the numbers and the geometry, and everything's connected.
我想，“是的，我听说过那件事。”所以我们拿到了粉末，我抽了它，然后我看到了背后的现实，如果你愿意的话，我看到了结构、数字和几何形状，以及一切都是相互联系的。
And everything's one thing, and we're having an experience.
一切都是一回事，我们正在经历一种体验。
And we can choose to experience good, bad, whatever in this reality.
在这个现实中，我们可以选择经历好的、坏的，无论什么。
And it's a temporary experience, and everything is forever.
这只是暂时的经历，而一切都是永恒的。
There's no time.
没时间了。
And all these things, woof, came in.
所有这些东西，汪汪地，都进来了。
But DMT is a very short experience, like 10 seconds or something.
但 DMT 是一种非常短暂的体验，比如 10 秒左右。
So then I got invited on this podcast in England called "London Real."
然后我就被邀请参加英国的一个名为“London Real”的播客。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
And it was very early, small podcast at the time.
当时还很早，很小的播客。
They invited me down.
他们邀请我下来。
I said, "It sounds interesting," because I like to talk.
我说，“听起来很有趣”，因为我喜欢说话。
I can talk about different subjects if you want, whatever.
如果你愿意，我可以谈论不同的话题。
So we're back, before we do the podcast, we're talking away and, I don't know, it came in a conversation.
所以我们回来了，在我们做播客之前，我们正在谈论，我不知道，它是在一次谈话中出现的。
"Yeah, DMT." "Oh, yeah, I've done that." "What?
“是的，DMT。” “哦，是的，我已经这么做了。” “什么？
You've done it all?" "Yeah, yeah." "Would you be willing to talk about it on the podcast?" I says, "'London Real' or 'London Bullshit'?
你都做完了吗？” “是啊是啊。” “你愿意在播客上谈论这件事吗？”我说：“‘真实伦敦’还是‘伦敦废话’？
What's the name of the podcast, man?" And, I talked about the psychedelics and my experience, and it went absolutely huge, because this was, I think it was like 2012.
伙计，这个播客的名字是什么？”而且，我谈到了迷幻药和我的经历，它绝对是巨大的，因为那是，我认为那就像 2012 年。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's early.
那还早呢
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But ah, people were stopping me on the street, and they weren't stopping me because, "You're that guy on...
但是啊，人们在街上拦住我，他们没有拦住我，因为，“你就是那个......
Oh, it's fascinating what you talked about." And because I was on that show- Then this camp from Costa Rica, they got in touch with me, and we're an ayahuasca camp.
噢，你谈论的事情很有趣。”因为我参加了那个节目-然后是来自哥斯达黎加的这个营地，他们联系了我，我们是死藤水营地。
I did it once in Spain, ayahuasca.
我在西班牙做过一次，死藤水。
It was a great experience.
这是一次很棒的经历。
And then these guys got in touch with me, and they said: "How do you feel about coming to Costa Rica and being like a headliner?" I said, "I don't know about that, man, because it's very private.
然后这些人联系了我，他们说：“你来到哥斯达黎加并成为头条新闻有何感想？”我说：“我不知道，伙计，因为这是非常私密的事情。
I just want to do my own thing." Like in Spain, nobody knows who I am, so I did it once there and I'm just doing my thing, man.
我只想做我自己的事。”就像在西班牙一样，没有人知道我是谁，所以我在那里做过一次，我只是在做我的事情，伙计。
I don't want to be, "Hey, yo, Dorian." I'm just here for my personal experience.
我不想成为“嘿，哟，多里安”。我来这里只是为了我的个人经历。
And they're like, "Well, when it's the ceremonies, that's the shaman and the facilitators, and you're just another guy once you go in there.
他们就像，“好吧，当举行仪式时，那就是萨满和协调员，一旦你进去了，你就只是另一个人了。
But during the day, can you look after the guys?" I said, "I don't know.
不过白天你能照顾一下这些家伙吗？”我说：“我不知道。
Okay, let me give it a try." And people from the fitness industry or the gym or whatever were coming, and I said, "Why are you here?" "Because I was kind of interested.
好吧，我试试吧。”来自健身行业或健身房或其他任何地方的人都来了，我说，“你为什么在这里？” “因为我有点感兴趣。
I was kind of curious, but I didn't know.
我有点好奇，但我不知道。
I didn't know if it's for me.
我不知道这是否适合我。
Maybe it's a hippie thing.
也许这就是嬉皮士的风格。
I don't know.
我不知道。
But when I saw that you were doing it, I said, 'Oh, it's cool if Dorian's doing it.
但当我看到你在这么做时，我说，‘哦，如果多里安在这么做的话那就太酷了。
Let's go.'" So we did three camps there with like 20 people ahead.
我们走吧。’”于是我们在那里扎了三个营地，前面大约有 20 个人。
In one week, you do four sessions.
一周内，您会进行四次训练。
So I've probably done like 20-something ayahuasca ceremonies.
所以我大概已经做过二十多次死藤水仪式了。
And each time was different.
而且每次都不一样。
Each time I learned something.
每次我都学到了一些东西。
But I got to the stage where I'm like, "What more can I learn?" I'm not coming here to be a psychedelic tourist.
但我到了这样一个阶段：“我还能学到什么？”我来这里不是为了成为一个迷幻的游客。
They call them people that keep going back.
他们称他们为不断回头的人。
Well, if it was helping you, why do you keep going back?
好吧，如果它对你有帮助，你为什么还要回去呢？
Once you've learned.
一旦你学会了。
I can't remember who it was, but they said, "Once you pick up the receiver and you get the message, put it down," right?
我不记得是谁，但他们说，“一旦你拿起听筒并收到消息，就把它放下，”对吧？
So it was over a period of time, and I was like, "Wow, I don't feel like I need to do it anymore, or I want to do it anymore." It may change.
过了一段时间，我就想，“哇，我觉得我不再需要这样做了，或者我不想再这样做了。”它可能会改变。
But I feel like I learned what I needed to learn.
但我觉得我学到了我需要学习的东西。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And I helped other people on their journey as well.
我也帮助了其他人的旅程。
So I got the message.
所以我收到了消息。
What more do I need to know?
我还需要知道什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If I would've sat down with you prior to your psychedelic work-
如果我能在你的迷幻作品之前和你坐下来——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
like right here, right now, would you feel different, be different?
就像此时此地，你会感觉不一样吗？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I believe so, yeah.
我相信是的，是的。
It's hard to describe the whole experience.
很难描述整个经历。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
People like, "How is it?" It's like, wow.
人们喜欢问“怎么样？”就像，哇。
Well, it's different for everybody.
嗯，每个人的情况都不同。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But in terms of the takeaways, were some related to your-
但就要点而言，是否有一些与您相关的-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
The biggest takeaway-
最大的收获——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
is everything.
就是一切。
Everything is one thing.
一切都是一回事。
We are one thing.
我们是一回事。
We're not a drop from the ocean.
我们不是大海中的一滴水。
We're the ocean in a drop, that's a Rumi saying, right?
我们是一滴大海，这是鲁米的名言，对吗？
But I get it.
但我明白了。
I was saying that before I even read that.
在我读到那句话之前我就已经这么说了。
I said, "Imagine an ocean, yeah, that's everything.
我说：“想象一下一片海洋，是的，这就是一切。
But there's a spray that's come out, like a little drop." And he thinks, "Oh, I'm just a little drop.
但有一种喷雾喷出来，就像一滴小水滴。”他想：“哦，我只是一个小水滴。
Oh, poor me, I'm little." No. You're the ocean as well.
哦，可怜的我，我还小。”不，你也是海洋。
You'll drop back into the ocean when you pssh, boom.
当你发出“砰”的一声时，你就会掉回海里。
So everything is one thing.
所以一切都是一回事。
We're all connected.
我们都是相连的。
We're the same thing, having separate experiences.
我们是同一个人，有不同的经历。
That's what I got, and we're all connected.
这就是我所得到的，我们都是有联系的。
And the whole experience we're having is mental.
我们所经历的整个经历都是精神上的。
Nothing exists without observation.
没有观察就没有任何事物存在。
So this is all created by us.
所以这一切都是我们创造的。
Everything.
一切。
It's our imagination that doesn't really exist.
这是我们的想象，其实并不存在。
If that makes sense.
如果这是有道理的话。
I mean, it might not-
我的意思是，可能不会——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, no
不，不
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
because you've got to experience it.
因为你必须经历它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Listen, I'm very open.
听着，我很开放。
As a neuroscientist, I understand for certain that our brains are very good at extracting certain kinds of information.
作为一名神经科学家，我确信我们的大脑非常擅长提取某些类型的信息。
That's red, that's blue.
那个是红色，那个是蓝色。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I can hear your voice.
我能听到你的声音。
That's Dorian.
那是多里安。
I'm me.
我就是我。
But that's through a certain set of filters.
但这是通过一组特定的过滤器。
And-
还有——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, you're a machine with a computer, and it's limited
是的，你是一台带有计算机的机器，它是有限的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you've got certain filters.
你有一定的过滤器。
It's like someone described it.
好像有人描述过。
I forget who it was, that if you were in a house and the windows were open out onto a yard, you would hear certain things and see certain things, and that's your conception of a yard.
我忘了那是谁了，如果你在一所房子里，窗户开向院子，你会听到某些东西，看到某些东西，这就是你对院子的概念。
But if you were outside in the field on the other side of the yard, you'd get a very different picture, a very different experience of it.
但如果你在院子另一边的田野里，你会得到一个非常不同的画面，一个非常不同的体验。
And-
还有——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Let me give you another analogy like that.
让我再给你一个类似的比喻。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I don't know where this one came from, but I used it one time, because there's so many different levels to a psychedelic experience.
我不知道这个来自哪里，但我用过一次，因为迷幻体验有很多不同的层次。
But I said it like this.
但我是这样说的。
Imagine you're in a room, whatever shape, square room, and you're in this room, and that's all that exists.
想象你在一个房间里，无论形状如何，方形房间，你就在这个房间里，这就是存在的一切。
You can see it, you can touch it.
你可以看到它，你可以触摸它。
There's nothing more, because you're not aware of it, right?
没什么了，因为你不知道，对吧？
How about if I brought a little trampoline in here, and you bounced up on the trampoline, and you happen to see over the wall, and you see there's a whole fucking other world out there that you didn't know about, but now you've seen it.
如果我在这里带一个小蹦床，你在蹦床上弹跳，然后你碰巧看到墙外，你会看到外面有一个你不知道的另一个世界，但现在你已经看到了。
You can't forget, right?
你不可能忘记，对吧？
So you'll come back to this room with a different perspective, knowing that this is not it, really.
所以你会带着不同的视角回到这个房间，知道事实并非如此。
So it gives you a totally new perspective on life, I think.
所以我认为它给了你一个全新的生活视角。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm totally on board.
我完全同意。
I will say, I do think there are certain people with predisposition to psychosis that should be cautious about psychedelics.
我想说的是，我确实认为某些有精神病倾向的人应该对迷幻药保持谨慎。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Oh, the camp I went to in Costa Rica-
哦，我去哥斯达黎加的营地-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
is like, they do a full review.
就像，他们做了全面的审查。
They got doctors on board and everything like that.
他们有医生在船上等等。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So they do vet people before and get their medical history and all that stuff.
所以他们之前确实对人们进行了审查并了解他们的病史和所有这些东西。
So, I'm sure there's some exceptions where maybe it might not be beneficial, but I'm not an expert on that.
所以，我确信有一些例外情况可能没有好处，但我不是这方面的专家。
But if it's a real camp, and that is the thing.
但如果这是一个真正的营地，那就是事情了。
A lot of them are not.
其中很多都不是。
Or they just get as many people in there to get as much money, and they don't get the attention and everything like that.
或者他们只是让尽可能多的人在那里获得尽可能多的钱，但他们没有得到关注和类似的东西。
So, if you're going to do it, do your bit of research on who's doing it and how are they qualified and what the facility's like and everything like that.
因此，如果您打算这样做，请对谁在做这件事、他们的资格如何以及设施是什么样的等等进行一些研究。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I did it in Spain, where it's kind of Wild West.
我是在西班牙做的，那里有点狂野的西部。
They don't really tell you too much.
他们并没有告诉你太多。
But I can handle that.
但我能处理好。
Not everyone else can, so better to go to a place where they do it really professionally.
不是每个人都可以，所以最好去他们真正专业的地方。
And with a shaman, a proper traditional, not a guy.
萨满是一个真正的传统萨满，而不是一个人。
I could say I'm a shaman and put camps on if, but I'm not.
我可以说我是一名萨满并在其中扎营，但我不是。
These guys, it's passed down through the family, and they do maybe a decade of training before they're going in there and actually administering the ceremonies.
这些人是通过家族传承下来的，他们在进入那里并实际主持仪式之前可能接受了十年的培训。
So I think that's important.
所以我认为这很重要。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I think the data on psilocybin for depression, MDMA, not recreationally, but therapeutically for PTSD, Ibogaine for PTSD and for alcohol and other substance abuse disorders is very intriguing.
是的，我认为关于裸盖菇素治疗抑郁症、摇头丸的数据，不是为了娱乐，而是治疗创伤后应激障碍，伊博加因治疗创伤后应激障碍以及酒精和其他药物滥用障碍，这些数据非常有趣。
And I'm not trying to hedge here and play-
我并不是想在这里对冲并玩-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but I think it's very interesting.
但我认为这很有趣。
I think people forget.
我认为人们会忘记。
This is one of these things where I almost forgot to say this.
这是我差点忘记说的事情之一。
Whether or not it's therapy, working out, a pill, or psychedelics, ultimately what we're after is this thing of brain plasticity, right?
无论是治疗、锻炼、药物还是迷幻药，最终我们追求的是大脑可塑性，对吗？
They're all aimed at the same endpoint.
它们都瞄准同一个终点。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But the psychedelics are particularly interesting because the experience of them, not just the effects they have long term, but both the experience of being in the psychedelic journey as well as the long-term outcomes, seem to create something that, done correctly, brings people more peace.
但迷幻剂特别有趣，因为它们的体验，不仅仅是它们的长期影响，而且是迷幻之旅的体验以及长期结果，似乎创造了一些东西，如果做得正确，会给人们带来更多的平静。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Well, there's a guy in England that's now funded and has been doing the experiments, and he got brain activity-
嗯，英国有一个人现在得到了资助，一直在做实验，他的大脑活动了——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
before and afterwards.
之前和之后。
I don't know what basis it's on, but let's say their brain activity that they can see is maybe 30% lit up, 100%.
我不知道它的依据是什么，但假设他们能看到的大脑活动可能有 30%、100% 被点亮。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It's certainly-
肯定是——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So it's activating parts of your brain that's-
所以它正在激活你大脑的某些部分——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure
当然可以
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
kind of sleeping, I guess.
我想，有点睡着了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It's revealing a bunch of lateral connections in what we call the default mode network.
它揭示了我们所谓的默认模式网络中的一堆横向连接。
Basically, more brain areas are talking to one another-
基本上，更多的大脑区域正在相互交谈——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in the psychedelic state.
处于迷幻状态。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Which change your perspective.
这会改变你的观点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's right.
没错。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And the way you think, which-
还有你的思维方式，即——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It change your perception.
它改变你的看法。
That's right
没错
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
affects everything.
影响一切。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's right.
没错。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
There was a guy, funnily enough, he used to work for the government in UK.
有趣的是，有一个人曾经为英国政府工作。
So they had him do a report on drugs and recreational drugs and what his conclusions were, and he said, "People that take ecstasy, MDMA, on the weekend, statistically, they're much safer than somebody that does horse riding." This is a scientific...
所以他们让他做了一份关于毒品和娱乐性毒品的报告以及他的结论，他说，“从统计数据来看，周末服用摇头丸、摇头丸的人比骑马的人安全得多。”这是一个科学...
And they fired him.
他们解雇了他。
And a lot of scientists that work for the UK, they retired, they're like, "We're scientists.
许多为英国工作的科学家，他们退休了，他们就像，“我们是科学家。
You can't dictate to us what the conclusion must be.
你不能告诉我们结论是什么。
We're scientists.
我们是科学家。
We just look and give you the conclusion." Anyway, Professor Nutt now is working independently and funded and in London, and he's doing a lot of these studies on different psychedelics and brain activity and depression and so on.
我们只是看看然后给你结论。”不管怎样，纳特教授现在正在伦敦独立工作并获得资助，他正在对不同的致幻剂、大脑活动和抑郁症等进行大量研究。
So a lot of people that came to the camps are struggling with depression and different issues.
因此，很多来到难民营的人都在与抑郁症和其他问题作斗争。
And some of the experiences might have been unpleasant at the time.
有些经历在当时可能是不愉快的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But everybody at the end of the week is like, "Wow, this is the most important thing I've done in my life.
但到了周末，每个人都会说：“哇，这是我一生中做过的最重要的事情。
This is life-changing." I heard that so many times, literally from everybody that's done it.
这改变了生活。”我听过很多次这样的说法，几乎是从每个做过这件事的人那里听到的。
So, it's worth looking into, definitely.
所以，这绝对值得研究。
And, no, beyond whatever you might feel at the time, there's no side effects afterwards or anything like that.
而且，不，除了你当时可能有的感觉之外，之后不会有任何副作用或类似的情况。
And another thing after doing these camps, you're restricted with your diet and before you go, they give you a specific diet and things to cut out, like alcohol and any other kind of drugs and so on.
参加这些夏令营后的另一件事是，你的饮食受到限制，在你去之前，他们会给你特定的饮食和要戒掉的东西，比如酒精和任何其他种类的药物等等。
And I feel like if my brain was a computer, like at the end of the week, all the junk files are gone out, and it's just I'm having so many ideas and inspiration and ideas for business, and it's on fire.
我觉得如果我的大脑是一台电脑，就像在周末，所有的垃圾文件都会消失，只是我有这么多的想法、灵感和商业想法，而且它正在燃烧。
And eventually it settles down to a more normal pace, but you feel like your computer's just been upgraded.
最终它会恢复到更正常的速度，但您会感觉计算机刚刚升级。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Defragged, as they say.
正如他们所说，已整理碎片。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We mentioned schizophrenia a couple of minutes ago.
几分钟前我们提到了精神分裂症。
Reminds me, there are these very interesting findings.
提醒我，有这些非常有趣的发现。
There are a few exceptions to what I'm about to say, but I know that your wife is from Brazil.
我要说的有一些例外，但我知道你的妻子来自巴西。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we were talking about the value of sunlight, you being from the UK.
我们正在谈论阳光的价值，你来自英国。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You don't find schizophrenia near the equator.
在赤道附近找不到精神分裂症。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Because of the light.
因为光。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm not going to say schizophrenia is one thing, and I'm not going to say it's caused by one thing, but there's some very interesting hypotheses about certain types of winter infections make people more prone to them.
我不会说精神分裂症是一回事，也不会说它是由一件事引起的，但有一些关于某些类型的冬季感染使人们更容易感染的非常有趣的假设。
Now, why would those winter infections only occur closer to the poles?
现在，为什么这些冬季感染只会发生在靠近两极的地方？
It may be that, this is a theory, that some of the long wavelength light from the sun, the reds and orange and yellows and so forth, provide a protective function on the mitochondria and at certain stages of pregnancy, because there is a genetic component to schizophrenia.
这可能是一种理论，即来自太阳的一些长波长光，红色、橙色和黄色等，对线粒体和怀孕的某些阶段提供保护功能，因为精神分裂症存在遗传成分。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there's also an environmental component.
但还有一个环境因素。
Identical twins don't always both have it.
同卵双胞胎并不总是都拥有它。
Sunlight seems protective.
阳光似乎具有保护作用。
The amount of sunlight seems protective in a way that is not trivial, that statistically is very impressive.
阳光的数量似乎具有一定的保护作用，这一点并非微不足道，从统计数据来看，这一点非常令人印象深刻。
So, it's interesting, right?
所以，这很有趣，对吧？
Sunlight-
阳光-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I think overall health, the sun is essential.
我认为对于健康来说，阳光是必不可少的。
I've talked about it before to friends and everything.
我之前已经和朋友谈论过这一切。
I was like-- And I was in the club.
我当时就像——我在俱乐部里。
Isn't it a ridiculous joke how we've been told to be scared of the sun when it's the giver of all life on the planet, somehow it can be bad for us?
当太阳是地球上所有生命的赐予者时，我们被告知要害怕太阳，这难道不是一个可笑的笑话吗？不知何故，它可能对我们有害？
That's just ridiculous, yeah?
这太荒谬了，是吗？
If you go in the sun and you start to get burnt, get out of the sun.
如果您在阳光下晒伤并开始被晒伤，请远离阳光。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or throw on a layer of clothing.
或者套上一层衣服。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
That's it.
就是这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, and put on a hat.
是的，然后戴上帽子。
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Listen, man, I'm as white as they come naturally.
听着，伙计，我天生就是白人。
I'm like a bottle of milk, man.
我就像一瓶牛奶，伙计。
But I went to Spain, and I guess my nutrition improved.
但我去了西班牙，我想我的营养状况有所改善。
Much better fruits and vegetables there, so that might be something.
那里有更好的水果和蔬菜，所以这可能是个问题。
But I slowly introduced myself to the sun And now I can stay out all day.
但我慢慢地将自己介绍给阳光 现在我可以整天待在外面。
I might get a bit reddish because I'm pale skin, but I don't get burnt or nothing, man.
由于我的皮肤苍白，我可能会有点红，但我不会被烧伤或什么都没有，伙计。
I can stay in the sun all day.
我可以整天呆在阳光下。
And yeah, I just feel much better in the sun.
是的，我只是在阳光下感觉好多了。
Everybody does.
每个人都这样做。
People come from England to live in Spain because of that fact.
因此，人们从英国来到西班牙生活。
And if we look between the UK and Spain, there's about six, seven-year difference in the life expectancy.
如果我们看看英国和西班牙，人们的预期寿命大约有六七年的差异。
Yeah.
是的。
Maybe the food's a bit better, but the sun is the key, I believe.
也许食物更好一点，但我相信阳光是关键。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I won't launch into a whole scientific lecture on this, but it's very interesting and not a coincidence at all that dopamine and the synthesis of dopamine in the body, it's L-tyrosine, but there's an enzyme called tyrosinase, and it's the rate-limiting enzyme for dopamine production.
我不会就此展开一个完整的科学讲座，但这非常有趣，而且一点也不巧合，多巴胺和体内多巴胺的合成，它是L-酪氨酸，但有一种叫做酪氨酸酶的酶，它是多巴胺产生的限速酶。
Dopamine makes you feel good-
多巴胺让你感觉良好——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
motivated, et cetera.
动机等等。
It's correlated with the sex hormones.
它与性激素有关。
We know all this stuff.
我们知道所有这些事情。
Certainly, you do.
当然，你会的。
It's also responsible for pigmentation of the skin, which is why-
它还负责皮肤色素沉着，这就是为什么-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Okay
好的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for instance, an arctic fox, which is white in the winter-
例如，北极狐，冬天是白色的——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
becomes brown in the summer through the dopamine pathway.
夏天通过多巴胺途径变成棕色。
So the feeling good in the sun is not a trivial thing.
所以在阳光下的美好感觉并不是一件小事。
It's through the dopamine pathway and the melanin pathway.
它通过多巴胺途径和黑色素途径。
The other thing that's really interesting is that there's been a study recently where they gave people a glucose tolerance test, how well they manage blood sugar, insulin, et cetera.
另一件真正有趣的事情是，最近有一项研究，他们对人们进行了葡萄糖耐量测试，了解他们对血糖、胰岛素等的管理情况。
And in sunlight, or even with some sunlight just landing on their back, their metabolism goes up by about, I believe it's 29%, and their blood glucose regulation is far better.
在阳光下，或者即使有一些阳光刚刚落在他们的背上，他们的新陈代谢也会提高大约，我相信是 29%，他们的血糖调节要好得多。
And it's because the sunlight actually gets through the body, charges the mitochondria, and-
这是因为阳光实际上穿过身体，为线粒体充电，并且——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So it actually reaches the mitochondria in the cell?
那么它实际上到达了细胞中的线粒体吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The long wavelength light will go all the way through your body and charge your mitochondria on the way.
长波长光将一路穿过您的身体，并在途中为您的线粒体充电。
And this is not hearsay.
这并不是道听途说。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is documented in beautiful studies.
这在美丽的研究中有记录。
Glenn Jeffrey at University College London, another formerly pasty pale Brit-
伦敦大学学院的格伦·杰弗里 (Glenn Jeffrey) 是另一位曾经面色苍白的英国人
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
who I've known for many decades, came here, sat there, and said, "The more time you get in the sun, the longer your life.
我认识了几十年的一位朋友来到这里，坐在那里，说道：“你晒太阳的时间越多，你的寿命就越长。
The more time you get in the sun, the better your blood glucose regulation.
晒太阳的时间越多，血糖调节就越好。
The more time you get in the sun..." and on and on.
你在阳光下呆的时间越多......”等等。
And the opposite is also true.
反之亦然。
Too much time under just LED lights and not enough sunlight-
太多时间只在 LED 灯下且阳光不足 -
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
is damaging to mitochondria, and it's a very big effect.
正在损害线粒体，而且影响非常大。
I think this is going to be one of the biggest health issues.
我认为这将是最大的健康问题之一。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So this is beyond vitamin D production and so on.
所以这超出了维生素 D 的产生等范围。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It includes vitamin D production-
它包括维生素 D 的生产 -
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
but actually, vitamin D comes from the UV, the stuff they say is bad.
但实际上，维生素 D 来自紫外线，他们说这种东西不好。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The UV light is what triggers vitamin D production.
紫外线会触发维生素 D 的产生。
So look, you don't want to get a sunburn, and I'm glad you mentioned that.
所以听着，你不想被晒伤，我很高兴你提到这一点。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But we have been sold a bill of goods about the sun, and I think in the next 10 years, it's going to go the same direction as lifting weights turns to fat.
但我们已经被卖掉了一份关于太阳的商品清单，我认为在未来 10 年里，它将会像举重变成脂肪一样朝着同样的方向发展。
No one believes that because it's not true.
没有人相信这一点，因为这不是真的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But we were told that for decades.
但几十年来我们一直被告知这一点。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Oh, they used to believe it.
哦，他们曾经相信过。
When I started back in the '80s, very few women wanted to lift weights because they were scared they would get too big.
当我在八十年代开始时，很少有女性愿意举重，因为她们担心自己会变得太大。
And yeah, it was funny, people would come down the gym when I was British champion or something.
是的，这很有趣，当我成为英国冠军或其他什么的时候，人们会来到健身房。
"Yeah.
“是的。
I don't want to get too big.
我不想变得太大。
Something like you, that would be great." I'm like, "Don't worry.
像你这样的人，那就太好了。”我说：“别担心。
It's not going to happen by accident."
这不会偶然发生。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
"Don't worry."
“别担心。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I always tell people, especially if women want to train, the pump you get in the gym, that's as big as you're ever going to get-
我总是告诉人们，特别是如果女性想要训练，你在健身房得到的泵，就是你能得到的最大的泵——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
within a couple of months.
几个月内。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if you ever see yourself in the mirror at the gym and go, "Oh my God, that's far too big," go ahead, quit for two weeks.
因此，如果您在健身房看到自己的镜子时会说：“天哪，这太大了”，那就戒掉两周吧。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Exactly.
正是如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But exactly.
但确切地说。
People think they're going to go to sleep and wake up huge.
人们认为他们会入睡并醒来。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But it's interesting though, because I went in Spain, yeah?
但这很有趣，因为我去了西班牙，是吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And we live right by the beach, me and Gal.
我和盖尔就住在海滩边。
A lot on the beach.
海滩上有很多。
We're outside a lot.
我们经常在外面。
I had my vitamin D tested, and it was only 35.
我测试了维生素 D，结果只有 35。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I thought just from the sun.
我以为只是从太阳。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Some people just don't convert vitamin D that well, or produce vitamin D that well and need to supplement it, and it does seem to have some genetic component.
有些人只是不能很好地转化维生素 D，或者不能很好地产生维生素 D，需要补充，而且它似乎确实有一些遗传成分。
Which makes sense.
这是有道理的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Speaking of which, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about cannabis, because I think one of our early correspondences-
说到这里，如果我不问你关于大麻的事，那就是我的失职，因为我认为我们早期的通信之一——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, I was like, "Hey, man"
是的，我当时想，“嘿，伙计”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
by Instagram is I did an episode about cannabis, and I said, "Listen, I'm worried about psychotic risk" but I said, "Listen, there could be medical uses."
在 Instagram 上，我制作了一集关于大麻的节目，我说，“听着，我担心精神病风险”，但我说，“听着，大麻可能有医疗用途。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I've done a couple different episodes.
我已经拍了几集不同的剧集。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Also had Peter Attia on here, right?
彼得·阿提亚也在场，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I had Attia on.
我有阿蒂亚。
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, I had him on my podcast, but we didn't-
是的，我的播客上有他，但我们没有-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You didn't touch on it?
你没接触过吗？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
broach the subject.
提出这个话题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
No, I think that I want to be clear.
不，我想我想澄清一下。
My stance is one where I've seen people benefit.
我的立场是我看到人们受益的立场。
I've seen data that for people with a predisposition to psychosis, the high THC can be problematic.
我看到的数据表明，对于有精神病倾向的人来说，高 THC 可能会带来问题。
This is just what I've seen.
这就是我所看到的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But you sent me a note saying that first of all, that your experience with it has been good, so I want to give you the opportunity to share that, and then some of the things that you speculate about, because I'm an open book.
但你给我发了一张便条，说首先你的体验很好，所以我想给你机会分享这一点，然后是你推测的一些事情，因为我是一本开放的书。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Well, to give you some background, yeah, I guess cannabis is a bit cultural.
好吧，给你一些背景知识，是的，我想大麻有点文化。
In Birmingham where I grew up, we have a lot of Jamaicans.
在我长大的伯明翰，有很多牙买加人。
So Jamaicans, they smoke cannabis, they make tea.
所以牙买加人吸大麻，泡茶。
It's just a cultural thing.
这只是一个文化问题。
It's normal for them.
这对他们来说很正常。
So it was about, I had a couple of friends that their dads were Jamaican.
所以，我有几个朋友，他们的父亲是牙买加人。
So I was smoking it anyway, but I wasn't smoking it because I thought there was any particular health benefits.
所以我还是吸了它，但我吸它并不是因为我认为它对健康有任何特殊的好处。
I was just smoking it and drinking alcohol, hanging out.
我只是抽烟、喝酒、闲逛。
But my friends' dads, who were Jamaican, were like, "Oh, this protects against this, and we drink tea for this, and the women take it for menstrual pain, PM that." So I kind of heard that, but I'm, "Yeah, okay.
但我朋友的牙买加爸爸说，“哦，这可以预防这种情况，我们喝茶就是为了这个，女人们用它来治疗经痛，PM那个。”所以我有点听到了，但我说，“是的，好吧。
Whatever." And I would smoke occasionally when I was training.
不管怎样。”我在训练的时候偶尔也会抽烟。
And when I went to live in Amsterdam for a little bit, as I said, I did a lot of reading, started reading about it.
正如我所说，当我去阿姆斯特丹生活一段时间后，我读了很多书，开始阅读有关它的内容。
I started searching for studies, and I found there was massive health benefits from THC and different cannabinoids.
我开始寻找研究，发现四氢大麻酚和不同的大麻素对健康有巨大的好处。
Some of it really counterintuitive, I guess, for people.
我想，其中一些对于人们来说确实违反直觉。
You had Peter Attia on here, right?
彼得·阿提亚也在场，对吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So you asked Peter, I think What about smoking cannabis?
所以你问彼得，我想吸大麻怎么样？
How does that affect your lungs?
这对你的肺部有何影响？
And I think he was pretty much, "It's probably like the same as nicotine.
我认为他几乎是在说，“这可能和尼古丁一样。
Tobacco, right?" I think that's what he said.
烟草，对吗？”我想他就是这么说的。
But he's probably not aware of a 25-year-long massive study that was done at UCLA.
但他可能不知道加州大学洛杉矶分校进行了一项长达 25 年的大规模研究。
Dr. Donald Taskin, I think his name is.
唐纳德·塔斯金博士，我想他的名字是。
So they put these people into groups, cigarette smokers, cannabis smokers, and a control group that didn't smoke anything.
因此，他们将这些人分成几组：吸烟者、大麻吸烟者和不吸烟的对照组。
So after 25 years, what did they find?
那么25年后，他们发现了什么？
Cigarette group, we already know, right?
香烟集团，我们已经知道了，对吧？
Loss of lung function, increased cancers, blah, blah, blah.
肺功能丧失，癌症增加，等等，等等。
In the cannabis group, and heavy daily smoking, 25 years.
在吸食大麻且每天大量吸烟的组中，已有 25 年。
I'll agree, because I've been heavily smoking every day for 30 years.
我同意，因为三十年来我每天都大量吸烟。
So what was the effect on the lungs?
那么对肺部有什么影响呢？
Some negative, yes, because of the heat and the tar and everything like that.
是的，有些负面影响，因为热量、焦油和诸如此类的东西。
It could irritate the airways.
它可能会刺激呼吸道。
It reduced somewhat the antioxidant layer on your airways.
它在一定程度上减少了呼吸道上的抗氧化层。
So statistically, you would be more susceptible to an infection, maybe bronchitis or something like that.
从统计数据来看，你会更容易受到感染，可能是支气管炎或类似的疾病。
Although, of all my friends, I don't know anyone that got it, but statistically, you would be more likely to get it.
虽然，在我所有的朋友中，我不认识任何人得到它，但从统计数据来看，你更有可能得到它。
Lung function, interesting.
肺功能，有趣。
Twenty-five years of cannabis smoking, compared to the non-smokers, there was a slight increase in lung capacity in the cannabis smokers.
吸食大麻二十五年，与不吸烟者相比，吸食大麻者的肺活量略有增加。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'll have to check out this study.
我得看看这项研究。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
No cancers.
没有癌症。
Other groups got cancers, but this one don't after 25 years.
其他群体得了癌症，但这一群体 25 年后没有患上癌症。
So that's the lung cancer.
这就是肺癌。
So maybe Peter was not privy to this information.
所以也许彼得并不知道这些信息。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I'll check out the study.
嗯，我去研究一下。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm not familiar with it, but I appreciate you raising it.
我不熟悉它，但我很感谢你提出它。
I wonder if it's the THC and whether or not edible forms of THC would have the same effect, or whether or not it's-
我想知道这是否是四氢大麻酚，食用形式的四氢大麻酚是否会产生相同的效果，或者是否-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Absolutely
绝对
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the smoking of cannabis.
吸食大麻。
So if it's the THC-
所以如果是 THC-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Do you know Rick Simpson?
你认识里克·辛普森吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I know of Rick Simpson.
我知道里克·辛普森。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
RSO?
RS0？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Rick Simpson, anyway, he made a concentrated oil from cannabis.
无论如何，里克·辛普森（Rick Simpson）用大麻制成了浓缩油。
Now they sell it in all the-
现在他们在所有地方出售它-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
pharmacies, called RSO.
药房，称为 RSO。
Although I spoke to Rick, it's nothing to do with him, because he's the guy that originally did it in Canada, and he cured hundreds of people with cancers.
虽然我和里克谈过，但这与他无关，因为他是最初在加拿大做这件事的人，他治愈了数百名癌症患者。
He made a documentary called "Run from the Cure."
他制作了一部名为“逃离治疗”的纪录片。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm.
嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So the guy was growing cannabis on his farm in Canada, making the oil from it, because he discovered by mistake.
所以这个人在加拿大的农场里种植大麻，并从中提取大麻油，因为他错误地发现了这一点。
He had some skin cancer, and he discovered by mistake that the oil got rid of it, and he started to...
他患有一些皮肤癌，他错误地发现油可以消除它，然后他开始......
Anyway, he was persecuted by the authorities in Canada, because he wasn't selling it.
不管怎样，他在加拿大受到了当局的迫害，因为他不卖东西。
He was literally putting his money into it, growing plants, and giving it away for free.
他实际上是把他的钱投入其中，种植植物，然后免费赠送。
Watch the documentary.
观看纪录片。
It explains it all.
它解释了这一切。
And he was persecuted there, and he lives in Europe now.
他在那里受到迫害，现在住在欧洲。
And there's a lady at the University of Madrid, Dr. Sanchez.
马德里大学有一位女士，桑切斯博士。
She has proven in a lab setting, THC, you can even get the video, the speeded-up video, literally eating the cancer cells.
她已经在实验室环境中证明，THC，你甚至可以通过视频，加速视频，真正地吃掉癌细胞。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh yeah, I've seen this.
哦，是的，我见过这个。
I think we're finally, in 2026, breaking into new ground where people are looking at psychedelics, looking at other compounds, nutrition, et cetera.
我认为我们终于在 2026 年开辟了新领域，人们开始研究迷幻药、其他化合物、营养等等。
I do think we're-- I'm an optimist.
我确实认为我们——我是一个乐观主义者。
I like to think that, in part because of discussions like this-
我喜欢认为，部分原因是这样的讨论——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and an open-mindedness that has not existed before, that we're starting to break new ground in at least exploring things, being willing to explore things.
以及一种以前不存在的开放心态，我们至少在探索事物、愿意探索事物方面开始开辟新天地。
You won't be shocked to hear, but many people might be shocked to hear that the initial group that was exploring different types of breathing to achieve different brain-body states-
你不会感到震惊，但很多人可能会感到震惊，因为最初的小组正在探索不同类型的呼吸以实现不同的大脑-身体状态——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
people like Stan Grof and all those people, a lot of them were run out of universities.
像斯坦·格罗夫这样的人以及所有这些人，其中很多人都被大学淘汰了。
Somehow, it was looked at as too counterculture.
不知何故，它被认为过于反主流文化。
Now, my lab, I'm not running a lab right now, but I still teach, but my lab has published clinical studies, federally-- well, in that case, privately funded, but peer-reviewed studies on breathwork for anxiety control-
现在，我的实验室，我现在不运行实验室，但我仍然教书，但我的实验室已经发表了联邦临床研究——好吧，在这种情况下，是私人资助的，但经过同行评审的关于呼吸控制焦虑的研究——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
breathwork for sleep augmentation.
呼吸促进睡眠。
And so to us now, breathwork sounds like the kind of like, "Oh, of course." But 20 years ago, if you said breathwork-
现在对我们来说，呼吸听起来就像是“哦，当然。”但20年前，如果你说呼吸——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
people are like, "Okay, where's your magic carpet?
人们会说，“好吧，你的魔毯在哪里？
And there's the door, and let's lock you out."
门就在那里，我们把你锁在门外。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You can manipulate your brain and your body with breathwork.
您可以通过呼吸来操纵您的大脑和身体。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure.
当然。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
For sure.
一定。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, you can really shift your state.
是的，你真的可以改变你的状态。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And the thing with the cannabis, I've also seen it in my life.
还有大麻的事，我在生活中也见过。
I've seen it with real people, and there's thousands of people out on the internet if you search.
我在真实的人身上见过它，如果你搜索的话，互联网上有成千上万的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, well certainly for glaucoma, a field that I was involved in for a long time-
是的，对于青光眼来说当然是这样，这是我长期参与的一个领域——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
eye pressure, cannabis is a well-utilized tool to relieve eye pressure.
眼压，大麻是缓解眼压的常用工具。
And the major cause of blindness, second to cataract only, is glaucoma due to elevated eye pressure in cannabis, it reduces that.
导致失明的主要原因是仅次于白内障的青光眼，因为大麻中的眼压升高，它可以降低青光眼的发生率。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, you get a lot of relief with that.
是的，你会因此得到很多安慰。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's well-established.
这是公认的。
So in the ophthalmology community-
所以在眼科界——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
they've really embraced it.
他们真的很喜欢它。
I do have one question that I think is in the back of many people's minds, or should be.
我确实有一个问题，我认为这个问题存在于许多人的脑海中，或者应该存在于许多人的脑海中。
You were clearly, and still are, a very driven guy, although now you have this kind of additional-
显然，你过去是、现在仍然是一个非常有动力的人，尽管现在你有了这种额外的——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I'm balanced.
我很平衡。
I try to be balanced now
我现在努力保持平衡
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Yeah, you have an on/off switch right now.
是的，你现在有一个开关。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Where maybe it was all gas pedal before.
也许以前都是油门踏板。
Many people that I know who smoked a lot of weed-
我认识的很多人吸了很多大麻——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
some of them became very amotivated.
他们中的一些人变得非常积极。
They like-
他们喜欢——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I'll do it tomorrow.
我明天就做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
So you are a unique specimen in the sense that-
所以你是一个独特的样本，因为——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you're super driven.
你动力十足。
And so I had this dime store psychologist theory for a long time with my friends, which was, "Hey, if you're really driven, maybe you should do some things to relax."
所以很长一段时间以来，我和朋友们都有这个廉价商店心理学家的理论，那就是，“嘿，如果你真的有动力，也许你应该做一些事情来放松。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
"Maybe cannabis is right for you a little bit.
“也许大麻适合你一点。
But if you're lazy, I don't know if that's the right drug for you."
但如果你很懒，我不知道这是否适合你。”
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
If you're lazy, you're lazy, right?
如果你很懒，你就很懒，对吗？
Maybe it just amplifies it.
也许它只是放大了它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
There's a test you can do now.
您现在可以做一个测试。
I don't know if it's here, but I did it in Spain.
我不知道这里是否有，但我是在西班牙做的。
So we have an endocannabinoid system.
所以我们有一个内源性大麻素系统。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Inside your body.
在你的身体里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But it varies
但情况各有不同
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So there's a swab you can do, and it gives you a report on your endocannabinoid system.
因此，您可以进行拭子检查，它会为您提供有关内源性大麻素系统的报告。
And one of them is the likelihood of negative effects from one to 10.
其中之一是负面影响从 1 到 10 的可能性。
So the lady did my thing, and I was just kidding around with her.
所以这位女士做了我的事，而我只是和她开玩笑。
I said, "What does it say there?
我说：“上面写着什么？
Do I need THC for life?" Just messing about.
我一生都需要 THC 吗？”就是乱搞一下。
She said, "Well, you're not far off." She said, "Look at this.
她说：“嗯，离你不远了。”她说：“看看这个。
The likelihood of you having negative effects from cannabis, you're on one out of 10." So for instance, my wife, we've been married 12, 13 years now.
你受到大麻负面影响的可能性是十分之一。”举例来说，我的妻子，我们已经结婚 12、13 年了。
Sorry, gal, if I made a mistake.
抱歉，姑娘，如果我犯了一个错误。
She don't go anywhere near it.
她不会靠近它。
She feels totally paranoid if she has a little bit of cannabis.
如果她有一点大麻，她就会感到完全偏执。
So I'm well aware of different endocannabinoid systems maybe, or different personalities.
所以我很清楚不同的内源性大麻素系统，或者不同的性格。
So for some people, they will get a lot of negative effects.
所以对于一些人来说，他们会受到很多负面的影响。
So you have to find out for yourself.
所以你必须自己去了解。
But it's interesting that they got this test now that actually proves that your endocannabinoid system might be slightly different from mine.
但有趣的是，他们现在进行了这项测试，实际上证明了您的内源性大麻素系统可能与我的略有不同。
So I might benefit more from THC.
所以我可能会从 THC 中受益更多。
Maybe you benefit more from CBD or a balance.
也许您从 CBD 或平衡中受益更多。
So it's interesting now that we're-
所以有趣的是我们现在——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
able to get this information.
能够得到这个信息。
And I'm very driven and I'm very disciplined.
我非常有动力，而且非常自律。
And my wife thinks I'm hyperactive.
我的妻子认为我过度活跃。
I'm kind of quietly.
我有点安静。
I look very relaxed, but I'm constantly thinking and moving.
我看起来很放松，但我在不断地思考和移动。
So probably for me, it's beneficial at this stage.
所以对于我来说，在这个阶段可能是有益的。
And I'm having this discussion with my friend.
我正在和我的朋友进行这个讨论。
"Oh, it's not good," and, "It's only for losers." I said, "You like to watch that American football, don't you, on Saturday?" He's like, "Yeah." I said, "You know they did a survey with the NFL players and NBA players?
“哦，这不好，”并且，“这只是失败者的权利。”我说：“周六你喜欢看美式橄榄球比赛，不是吗？”他说：“是的。”我说：“你知道他们对 NFL 球员和 NBA 球员进行了一项调查吗？
How many of them use cannabis on a daily basis?
其中有多少人每天吸食大麻？
In between 70% and 80%." So we're talking about the most elite athletes in the world, highest-paid athletes.
在 70% 到 80% 之间。”所以我们谈论的是世界上最优秀的运动员、收入最高的运动员。
They wouldn't be doing that if it wasn't benefiting them, and they're saying it's benefiting them.
如果这对他们没有好处，他们就不会这样做，而他们却说这对他们有利。
But more to the point, how about the owners of these clubs?
但更重要的是，这些俱乐部的老板呢？
If they thought this was having a negative effect on them, they would stamp it out right away.
如果他们认为这对他们产生了负面影响，他们会立即消除它。
But they don't.
但他们没有。
And the basketball players are saying they smoke blunts before they go on the court, and they play better, and they recover better and so on.
篮球运动员们说，他们在上场之前就抽烟了，他们打得更好，恢复得更好等等。
And it makes sense.
这是有道理的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So I would say it's good to hear you say that it probably varies by person.
所以我想说很高兴听到你说这可能因人而异。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Your wife, it's not for her.
你的妻子，这不适合她。
It's clearly for you.
这显然是为了你。
And it probably varies by profession and natural drive.
它可能因职业和自然驱动力而异。
But maybe other things, too.
但也许还有其他事情。
I know some artist musicians who need to drink and smoke-
我认识一些艺术家音乐家需要喝酒和抽烟-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Creative, yeah
有创意啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and others who don't.
以及其他不这样做的人。
And now nicotine's made a big comeback-
现在尼古丁又卷土重来了——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in the oral forms of nicotine.
尼古丁的口服形式。
I feel like just like with dogs, there's tremendous variation in body size, temperament.
我觉得就像狗一样，体型、脾气都有很大差异。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Even food.
甚至食物。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Humans are different.
人类是不同的。
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Some food for some people, they're allergic to it, or it gives them a bad effect, and somebody else not.
有些食物对某些人来说，他们会过敏，或者会给他们带来不好的影响，而另一些人则不会。
So there's no rule that applies to everybody 100%.
因此，没有任何规则 100% 适用于所有人。
But cannabis has a very negative image, let's say-
但大麻的形象非常负面，比如说——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
because of over 100 years of propaganda.
因为100多年的宣传。
It was a medicine.
这是一种药物。
You could get it on the shelves in America in 1900.
1900 年你就可以在美国的货架上买到它了。
It was for many things.
这是为了很多事情。
Queen Victoria, the famous longest queen, she used to use cannabis for period pains and this and that.
维多利亚女王是著名的最长女王，她曾经使用大麻来缓解经期疼痛等等。
So it was used as a medicine for a long time until the pharmaceutical industry came along, and then all of a sudden they're making movies.
所以它被用作药物很长一段时间，直到制药业出现，然后突然他们开始拍电影。
If a white woman smokes cannabis, she's going to sleep with Black men, and all kind of crazy stuff.
如果一个白人女性吸食大麻，她就会和黑人男性上床，以及各种疯狂的事情。
There was one called "Reefer Madness."
有一种叫做“冷藏室疯狂”。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I've seen that.
是的，我见过。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Smoking.
吸烟。
Ah.
啊。
Going to send you crazy.
会让你发疯的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
This is in people's minds.
这是人们心中的想法。
It's a bad thing.
这是一件坏事。
It's a drug.
这是一种药物。
It's not.
它不是。
It's a plant medicine, and it grows from the ground like that.
它是植物药，是从地里长出来的。
It's stronger now.
现在更强了。
It's higher in THC-
THC 含量更高-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sure
当然可以
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
because it's been cross-bred.
因为它是杂交的。
Like a dog.
像狗一样。
You want a dog with a long nose.
你想要一只长鼻子的狗。
It's the same thing with plants.
植物也是如此。
So people want to get more bang for their buck, so the breeders are trying to breed more THC into it.
因此，人们想要获得更多的收益，因此饲养员正在尝试在其中培育更多的 THC。
And sometimes this is not good for people because the CBD is kind of calmed down and balanced with the THC.
有时这对人们不利，因为 CBD 与 THC 具有一定的镇静和平衡作用。
Now the CBD is down, and the THC is up there.
现在CBD下降了，THC上升了。
So that's why it's more likely to make you feel a little edgy now, because the THC is kind of active.
这就是为什么它现在更有可能让你感到有点急躁，因为 THC 有点活跃。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I had a guest on here named Chris McCurdy.
我这里有一位客人，名叫克里斯·麦柯迪。
He's a scientist out in Florida, and he taught me three things I think that you'll find interesting in light of what we're talking about.
他是佛罗里达州的一名科学家，他教了我三件事，我认为根据我们正在谈论的内容，你会发现这些事情很有趣。
One, that every pharmaceutical company has what are called bioprospectors that send people quietly-
第一，每家制药公司都有所谓的生物勘探员，悄悄地派人去——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
to the jungle, to other places, and not just the jungle, to find plants that are used locally and then to find specific molecules and develop highly potent extracts to grab-
到丛林，到其他地方，而不仅仅是丛林，寻找当地使用的植物，然后寻找特定的分子并开发高效的提取物来捕获-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
just one effect.
只是一种效果。
The second thing is we were talking about kratom.
第二件事是我们谈论卡痛叶。
I think the proper pronunciation is kratom.
我认为正确的发音是kratom。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he was talking about how the kratom plant and even the cocoa plant, chewing on the leaves is known to give people a kind of balanced, in both cases, kind of stimulant-relaxation effect.
他正在谈论卡痛植物，甚至可可植物，咀嚼叶子可以给人们带来一种平衡，在这两种情况下，一种兴奋剂放松的效果。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
I did that in Peru when we went to Machu Picchu.
当我们去秘鲁马丘比丘时，我就是这么做的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Interesting.
有趣。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
I feel like maybe I had a coffee or something.
我觉得我可能喝了杯咖啡什么的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
That's about it.
就是这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, it's interesting because what happens is people take the plant, find the molecule that produces the real dopamine-
嗯，这很有趣，因为人们采取植物，找到产生真正多巴胺的分子-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
high in the case of cocaine-
可卡因含量很高——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
or kratom, and they then develop kratom isolates or kratom-like synthetics or THC-like synthetics.
或 kratom，然后他们开发 kratom 分离物或 kratom 类合成物或 THC 类合成物。
And so especially in the United States, there's this tendency to take a plant which is very balanced in its chemistry-
因此，尤其是在美国，人们倾向于选择化学成分非常平衡的植物——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then to extract the thing that gives you an amplified effect, which is most habit-forming and addictive-
然后提取出能够给你带来放大效果的东西，这是最容易形成习惯、最容易上瘾的东西——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Also in the-
也在——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then drive that to market.
然后将其推向市场。
But then we demonize the whole plant.
但随后我们妖魔化了整个植物。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But in its natural form-
但以其自然的形式——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
you can't patent it.
你不能申请专利。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So you can't make a lot of money.
所以你赚不到很多钱。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
So you need to- Change it a little bit or extract something out of there.
所以你需要 - 稍微改变一下或者从中提取一些东西。
Cannabis grows from the ground.
大麻从地里长出来。
Yes, it's stronger than it used to be back in the '60s because the growers have bred it like that.
是的，它比 60 年代的时候更强，因为种植者就是这样培育的。
But it's not synthetic, it's just a plant crossed with a plant.
但它不是合成的，它只是一种植物与一种植物的杂交。
It's a natural process.
这是一个自然的过程。
That's why farmers can't make money from it.
这就是农民赚不到钱的原因。
They have to change it from its natural form balance, but when they do that, it doesn't work so well.
他们必须改变它的自然形态平衡，但当他们这样做时，效果并不那么好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, the internet has caused a great many problems, instant gratification, this kind of thing.
嗯，互联网造成了很多问题，即时满足，这种事情。
But I also think it's solved a great number of problems, and one of the things that it's solved is that the discussions about plants versus isolates-
但我也认为它解决了很多问题，其中解决的问题之一是关于植物与分离株的讨论-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
about cannabis for one person, maybe not for another.
关于大麻对于一个人来说，也许不适合另一个人。
Psychedelics, TRT versus steroids.
迷幻药、TRT 与类固醇。
I like to think that we are in a whole new era now where people hopefully are starting to search for information differently.
我认为我们现在正处于一个全新的时代，人们希望开始以不同的方式搜索信息。
It's not like it was-
事情并不像以前那样——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You can find it now at your fingertips, man.
现在你可以在你的指尖找到它，伙计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
It's great.
这很棒。
I mean, I think it's great.
我的意思是，我认为这很棒。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
When I first was starting to get interested in psychedelics and cannabis, as I said, I was in Amsterdam.
正如我所说，当我第一次开始对迷幻药和大麻感兴趣时，我在阿姆斯特丹。
So there's stores there with books in that I wouldn't normally find even in England.
那里的商店里有一些我在英国通常也找不到的书。
So that's when I had to...
所以那时我不得不...
When I started bodybuilding, I had to go out and buy magazines or get a book.
当我开始健美时，我必须出去买杂志或书。
It wasn't so easy.
这并不容易。
Now at your fingertips, you can do anything.
现在触手可及，您可以做任何事情。
Don't listen to me.
别听我的。
Go check out that study if you want.
如果你愿意的话，可以去看看那个研究。
I didn't make it, but I can tell you after 30 years of daily smoking, I went for a fitness evaluation.
我没能成功，但我可以告诉你，在每天吸烟 30 年之后，我去做了健康评估。
Was in Brazil a couple of years ago.
几年前在巴西。
They said the test biology, I should be 38.
他们说测试生物学，我应该是38岁。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And my breathing and my heart rate recovery from exercise is excellent.
我的呼吸和心率从运动中恢复得非常好。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, no one's doubting your vigor.
好吧，没有人怀疑你的活力。
I promise you that.
我向你保证。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Bruce Lee.
李小龙。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm similar to your wife in that it's not for me.
我和你妻子很相似，这不适合我。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But to each their own, right?
但对于每个人来说，对吗？
I have the things that work for me, and the things that don't, and I'm open-minded.
我有适合我的东西，也有不适合我的东西，而且我思想开放。
I have a couple more questions.
我还有几个问题。
One is about your wife vis-à-vis training for women.
其中之一是关于你的妻子与女性培训的问题。
Early on, we were talking about training-
早些时候，我们谈论培训——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and I'll point people to some other references that you've put out there about training.
我会向人们指出您发布的有关培训的其他一些参考资料。
But you made it very clear what the beginner versus more advanced stuff is.
但你非常清楚什么是初学者与更高级的东西。
I want to make sure that we touch on, she's quite the athlete.
我想确保我们能聊到，她是一位出色的运动员。
Do you think women who want to get stronger, maybe just a bit more size here and there, but not overall size, do you think they should train differently?
您认为那些想要变得更强壮的女性，也许只是在这里或那里增加一些尺寸，而不是整体尺寸，您认为她们应该进行不同的训练吗？
And if so, how?
如果是这样，怎么办？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Differently from men?
和男人不一样？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yes.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I don't think so.
我不这么认为。
I mean, they're the same muscles in the same place.
我的意思是，它们在同一个地方是相同的肌肉。
Same rules apply.
适用相同的规则。
The muscles are not going to grow unless you overload them.
除非你超负荷，否则肌肉不会生长。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It's just going to be limited by the fact that you're female and you don't produce a lot of testosterone, which makes it much more difficult to build muscle.
它只会受到以下事实的限制：你是女性，并且不会产生大量睾丸激素，这使得增强肌肉变得更加困难。
So we used to have this nonsense word.
所以我们以前就有这个无意义的词。
I say it's a nonsense word.
我说这是一句废话。
"No, I don't want to get bigger.
“不，我不想变大。
I want to get toned." All right, but there is no such thing as toned.
我想变得健美。”好吧，但是不存在“色调”这样的东西。
What you mean is you want to look firmer, right?
你的意思是你想让自己看起来更坚定，对吗？
Yes.
是的。
It's called building muscle and losing body fat.
这就是所谓的增强肌肉和减少体内脂肪。
So your arms might be the same size, but it's a different composition now.
所以你们的手臂可能大小相同，但现在组成不同了。
It looks leaner.
它看起来更瘦了。
It looks more shapely.
看起来更有型了。
It's the same thing.
这是同样的事情。
It's bodybuilding.
这是健美。
You're building muscle and losing body fat.
您正在增强肌肉并减少体内脂肪。
That's the only way you can change your shape.
这是改变你的形状的唯一方法。
You can do yoga.
你可以做瑜伽。
You can do Pilates, all these things.
你可以做普拉提，所有这些。
It's great for your mobility, your internal musculature.
它对你的活动能力和内部肌肉组织都有好处。
But the only way to really change your physical appearance is resistance training, weight training, whatever you want to call it.
但真正改变外貌的唯一方法是阻力训练、重量训练，无论你怎么称呼它。
Maybe they don't want to call it bodybuilding.
也许他们不想称之为健美。
Oh, no. Resistance training.
哦，不。阻力训练。
That sounds better, but it's the same bloody thing.
这听起来更好，但还是同样的事情。
You need to build muscle and lose body fat, then you'll look leaner.
你需要增强肌肉并减少体内脂肪，然后你就会看起来更苗条。
And don't worry about building too much muscle.
并且不用担心锻炼过多的肌肉。
Unless you're a genetic outlier that's genetically very muscular and maybe higher testosterone levels.
除非你是一个基因异常者，基因上肌肉非常发达，而且睾丸激素水平可能更高。
The girls that you see in competition, they're all using steroids.
你在比赛中看到的女孩，她们都在使用类固醇。
All of them.
所有的人。
Even the bikini competition.
甚至还有比基尼比赛。
They had this bikini class for women they introduced years ago because the idea is that women are getting too big now in the other classes.
他们几年前为女性开设了这个比基尼课程，因为这个想法是女性现在在其他课程中变得太大了。
So we'll make this bikini class, which is a fit young girl that's been training a little bit, bikini on the beach.
所以我们要开设这个比基尼课程，这是一个在海滩上接受过一些比基尼训练的健康年轻女孩。
They started doing juice and got bigger, and I'm like, "What are they going to do next?
他们开始做果汁并变得更大，我想，“他们下一步要做什么？
Bikini light?" Unfortunately, when it gets competitive, people start using products.
比基尼灯？”不幸的是，当竞争变得激烈时，人们开始使用产品。
So all those girls you see doing competitions, they're all using steroids.
所以你看到的所有参加比赛的女孩都在使用类固醇。
So you're not going to get like that by mistake.
所以你不会错误地得到这样的结果。
You need to build some muscle mass.
你需要增加一些肌肉质量。
You change your appearance and be healthier.
你改变了你的外表并且变得更健康。
Resistance training, just the same as a man.
阻力训练，就像男人一样。
Maybe you want to do extra work on your glutes or something because that's a big thing for women.
也许你想对臀部进行额外的锻炼或者做一些其他的事情，因为这对女性来说是一件大事。
Maybe you do a bit another exercise there that the man doesn't do, but the same thing applies, right?
也许你在那里做了另一个男人没有做的练习，但同样的事情也适用，对吧？
Stress, adaptation, recovery adaptation.
压力、适应、恢复适应。
It's the same principle.
这是同样的原理。
It's not voodoo.
这不是巫毒。
There's a whole industry now, right, online, and simple, easy facts don't sound sexy.
现在有一个完整的行业，对吧，在线，简单、简单的事实听起来并不性感。
So everybody tries to make everything very complicated in order to make the client perceive more value.
所以每个人都试图让一切变得非常复杂，以便让客户感知到更多的价值。
Oh, you got to change the...
哦，你必须改变...
I was talking to a guy once who's a top trainer.
我曾经和一个顶级教练交谈过。
I said, "Why have you got to train your client's routine every random four weeks, six weeks, whatever it is you do?" I said, "It's nonsense.
我说：“为什么你必须每隔四个星期、六个星期训练一次客户的日常工作，无论你做什么？”我说：“这是无稽之谈。
People should do the same exercises that work, right?
人们应该做同样有效的练习，对吗？
Don't keep changing it around.
不要总是改变它。
You can't even track it." "Yeah, I know, but they want it.
你甚至无法追踪它。” “是的，我知道，但他们想要它。
They like to change it around." I'm like, maybe it's a good business strategy, but I'm like, just tell people the truth, and it is what it is.
他们喜欢改变它。”我想，也许这是一个很好的商业策略，但我想，只要告诉人们真相，事情就是这样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's much harder to package and sell drive.
打包和销售驱动器要困难得多。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
It's hard work.
这很辛苦。
Sweat.
汗。
Push yourself.
推动自己。
But there's a beauty in that.
但这有一个美妙之处。
There's a beauty in pushing yourself.
逼迫自己是一种美。
And once you overcome something Then you feel more confident and stronger to overcome something again, right?
一旦你克服了一些事情，你就会感到更有信心、更坚强地再次克服一些事情，对吧？
And this bleeds into everything.
这渗透到一切事物中。
Into your life.
进入你的生活。
The gym is a microcosm of your life.
健身房是你生活的缩影。
If you're going to pussy about in a gym and not push yourself when it gets tough, you're going to, "Oh, no. Screw that.
如果你打算在健身房里尽情玩耍，并且在遇到困难时不强迫自己，你会说：“哦，不。管他的。
Put it down." Probably going to do the same thing in life when things come along that are tough.
把它放下来。”当生活中遇到困难时，可能会做同样的事情。
So it's not just a physical thing, it's the mental thing that controls everything.
所以这不仅仅是一个物理的东西，它是控制一切的精神的东西。
If you become a more resilient, more confident, stronger person, that goes into everything in your life.
如果你成为一个更有韧性、更自信、更坚强的人，这会影响你生活中的一切。
So there's more to bodybuilding than big muscles and competitions.
因此，健美不仅仅只是肌肉发达和比赛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And iron your shirts.
并熨烫你的衬衫。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, iron your shirts.
是的，熨烫你的衬衫。
Lowering your cortisol.
降低皮质醇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I like that.
我喜欢这样。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I don't even know why I was doing it.
我什至不知道我为什么这么做。
I was just doing it.
我只是在做而已。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Man, it's so cool.
伙计，这太酷了。
I'm imagining that now.
我现在正在想象这个。
I'm going to start ironing my own shirts.
我要开始熨我自己的衬衫了。
Tell me about DY Nutrition.
告诉我有关 DY 营养的信息。
I'm not getting paid to ask this, I'm just really curious.
我没有得到报酬来问这个问题，我只是很好奇。
Where is it?
它在哪里？
What is it?
它是什么？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
When I was bodybuilding, I was competing.
当我健美时，我正在参加比赛。
I was contracted to work with the Weider company.
我与韦德公司签订了工作合同。
Be their guy in the magazines and hold the product and everything.
成为杂志上的人物并持有产品和一切。
But I was interested in supplements.
但我对补充剂很感兴趣。
I was always reading nutrition, supplements, anything to do with my craft.
我总是阅读营养品、补充剂以及任何与我的手艺有关的内容。
And I spoke to Joe Weider and I said, "Listen, can I work with the guys?" "No. Just be the guy." So I was interested in getting involved then because I thought the Weider supplements definitely could be better.
我和乔·韦德谈过，我说：“听着，我可以和这些人一起工作吗？” “不。就做那个人吧。”所以我当时就有兴趣参与其中，因为我认为 Weider 补充剂肯定会更好。
But he didn't want me involved in that.
但他不想让我参与其中。
So through various businesses over the years, I built DY Nutrition, which is my own brand.
所以这些年通过各种业务，我建立了DY Nutrition，这是我自己的品牌。
I was just doing it myself, me and a partner, and doing it ourselves.
我只是自己做，我和一个合伙人，我们自己做。
And over the years then I found some good partners.
多年来我找到了一些很好的合作伙伴。
And we got to the point now where we have our own pharmaceutical facility in Europe, and we've been hitting the bodybuilding market all over Europe and Middle East.
现在我们已经在欧洲拥有自己的制药厂，并且我们已经进军整个欧洲和中东的健美市场。
And now we're shifting.
现在我们正在转变。
We're still going to maintain that, but we're shifting into health, wellness, all the things that we're talking about, and making some real kickass product for that market as well.
我们仍然会维持这一点，但我们正在转向健康、保健以及我们正在谈论的所有事情，并为该市场生产一些真正强大的产品。
So there's almost like two Dorians.
所以几乎有两个多里安人。
Dorian the bodybuilder, and Dorian now, who's in his 60s, and being concerned about my own health, and longevity, and quality of life, and what supplements can you take to help in that area.
健美运动员多里安（Dorian）和现在 60 多岁的多里安（Dorian）关心自己的健康、长寿和生活质量，以及可以服用哪些补充剂来帮助改善这方面的问题。
So we're developing that whole kind of new area, that I'm really interested and really involved in the development of the products and everything like that.
因此，我们正在开发整个新领域，我对此非常感兴趣，并且真正参与了产品的开发以及类似的事情。
And we are, after many years of demand, coming to the US pretty soon.
经过多年的需求，我们很快就会进入美国。
So that's one of the reasons I'm over here, meeting with some people and everything.
这就是我来这里、会见一些人和所有事情的原因之一。
So look out for us.
所以请留意我们。
We'll be in the US soon as well.
我们也很快就会到达美国。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Great.
太棒了。
So I imagine it's the quote unquote conventional stuff like whey protein, creatine-
所以我想这是对乳清蛋白、肌酸等传统物质的引用——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
glutamine, but some additional things as well.
谷氨酰胺，还有一些其他的东西。
Is that-
难道是——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah, we got pre-workout creatine.
是的，我们有锻炼前肌酸。
Pre-workout's called Blood and Guts, and that's the first product we're going to be bringing here to the US.
锻炼前的产品名为“Blood and Guts”，这是我们将带到美国的第一个产品。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There'll be a lot more shouting in gyms.
体育馆里将会有更多的喊叫声。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Everybody.
大家。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I'm working on something special.
我正在做一些特别的事情。
I don't want to say what it is yet.
我还不想说它是什么。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
But something special with the Blood and Guts product, so you'll get a bit more than a product from myself.
但是 Blood and Guts 产品有一些特别之处，所以您会得到的不仅仅是我自己的产品。
We'll wait till that's ready to go.
我们会等到一切准备就绪。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Cool.
酷。
Yeah, let us know.
是的，请告诉我们。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let us know.
让我们知道。
Final question, and it's arguably a big one, but feel free to handle it however you want.
最后一个问题，可以说是一个大问题，但请随意处理它。
You've had a very unusual life relative to most humans on the planet.
相对于地球上的大多数人来说，你的生活非常不寻常。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Past or present.
过去或现在。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
It's been interesting.
这很有趣。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's been a wild ride.
这是一次疯狂的旅程。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And again, I'm struck by your internal sense that you were destined for something different and great.
再一次，我对你内心的感觉感到震惊，因为你注定要去做一些不同的、伟大的事情。
You're really leaning into it in such a logical way, and also knowing when to rack that and go to the next thing, keeping the best of what was and grabbing the best of what's next and so forth.
你确实以一种合乎逻辑的方式倾向于它，并且也知道何时该坚持下去并进入下一件事，保持最好的东西并抓住接下来最好的东西等等。
As well as maintaining your health.
以及维护您的健康。
So here's my question.
这是我的问题。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because you did all that.
因为这一切都是你做的。
You're doing it now, it's not over.
你现在正在做，事情还没有结束。
And you also have this experience of psychedelics and consciousness, and you're a thinker.
而且你也有迷幻剂和意识的体验，而且你是一个思想家。
You're thinking guy.
你是个有思想的家伙。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
That's one of the reasons I like to smoke cannabis, because I just go into think and it breaks all the boxes.
这就是我喜欢吸大麻的原因之一，因为我只要一思考，它就会打破所有的框框。
You can think outside the box.
你可以跳出框框思考。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Man, you and Rogan can do that, talk about it that way.
伙计，你和罗根可以做到这一点，这样谈论它。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah.
是的。
We do.
我们做到了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And for the rest of us, we end up in a little ball, scared that the lint-
对于我们其他人来说，我们最终会变成一个小球，害怕棉绒-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Oh
噢
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the lint is going to put your kidneys through.
棉绒会刺穿你的肾脏。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
No worries.
不用担心。
Happens to a lot of people I wanted to smoke with.
我想和很多人一起抽烟。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
My wife says when they're like...
我妻子说当他们像...
She's like, "Don't do it."
她说：“别这样做。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, I don't enter marital disputes, but so what do you think this is all about, man?
好吧，我不参与婚姻纠纷，但是你认为这到底是怎么回事，伙计？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
About what?
关于什么？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not just for you, but for everyone.
不仅适合您，也适合所有人。
A lot of people look up to you.
很多人都仰望你。
They look to your story, but it's your insight and your experience that I think is what's so intriguing.
他们关注你的故事，但我认为最有趣的是你的洞察力和你的经历。
What do you think this is all about?
你认为这到底是怎么回事？
Why are we here?
我们为什么在这里？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
We're God playing hide and seek with itself.
我们是上帝在跟自己玩捉迷藏。
We're consciousness, having an experience, being in a physical reality.
我们有意识，有经验，处于物理现实中。
And we're all the same thing.
我们都是一样的。
We appear to be different and separate, and we are.
我们看起来是不同的、独立的，我们确实如此。
We're having an individual experience.
我们正在经历个人经历。
But ultimately, we're the same thing, having all these experiences at the same time.
但最终，我们是同一件事，同时拥有所有这些经历。
If you want to call that God.
如果你想称其为上帝。
It's just everything.
这就是一切。
That's what I got from psychedelics, and we're all on our own journeys in this reality.
这就是我从迷幻药中得到的，我们都在这个现实中踏上自己的旅程。
Maybe to learn things or maybe to explore what it's like to be in this reality because Consciousness is not physical, it's just consciousness.
也许是为了学习东西，或者也许是为了探索这个现实中的感觉，因为意识不是物质的，它只是意识。
And I believe it's in everything.
我相信一切都如此。
In the plants, in the animals, in us.
在植物中，在动物中，在我们身上。
It's all the same thing, having kind of different experiences.
都是一样的事情，有不同的经历。
And it doesn't end.
而且它并没有结束。
It's like we got the TV on, right?
就像我们打开电视一样，对吧？
TV's on there, we're watching it, we turn it off, or the TV blows up or whatever, but the energy that was going into the TV is still there somewhere, right?
电视开着，我们正在看它，我们把它关掉，或者电视爆炸了或者其他什么，但进入电视的能量仍然存在于某个地方，对吗？
So we are still somewhere, even after this experience finishes.
所以即使在这次经历结束之后，我们仍然在某个地方。
This much I'm pretty sure about.
这一点我很确定。
Yeah.
是的。
That's what I got.
这就是我得到的。
And live life to its fullest.
并充分享受生活。
You're going to come here and have this opportunity and just stay here and go from here to here and do this, and I never wanted to do that.
你会来到这里，有这个机会，就呆在这里，从这里走到这里，做这个，而我从来不想这样做。
I knew, I felt there's more to life, and there still is.
我知道，我觉得生活还有更多，而且仍然存在。
I want adventure, I want experiences, and it's been up and down, and I feel like now, I'm the most balanced and the most peaceful that I've been.
我想要冒险，我想要经历，经历过起起落落，我觉得现在，我是有史以来最平衡、最平静的。
I know my place and try to enjoy every day and spread love, because that's where we come from.
我知道我的位置，并努力享受每一天并传播爱，因为那是我们来自的地方。
We've forgotten.
我们已经忘记了。
Yeah, but it's all creation is the same as love.
是的，但一切创造都和爱一样。
It's the same frequency.
这是相同的频率。
That's what I get from my experience, and I look forward to every day and being somewhat of a mentor and a teacher, I guess, at this point.
这就是我从我的经历中得到的，我想，在这一点上，我期待着每一天，成为一位导师和老师。
I do these camps once or twice a year, just like six people or something, where I take them through my training methods and in the gym, and we do the theory, and they become certified at the end of the week.
我每年都会举办一到两次这样的训练营，就像六个人或其他人一样，我在健身房里带他们了解我的训练方法，我们进行理论分析，他们在周末获得认证。
So we call it DYHIT training certification.
所以我们称之为DYHIT培训认证。
But I said to the guys, I said, "I think I'm going to change the name of this thing to the DY Experience," because the training is part of it, but it almost becomes something else by the end of the week, spending so much time together and talking and training together and I see the people when they're under stress in the gym.
但我对这些人说，“我想我要把这个东西的名字改成 DY 体验”，因为训练是其中的一部分，但到了周末，它几乎变成了别的东西，花很多时间在一起，一起交谈和训练，我看到人们在健身房里承受压力时。
I see things about them that I could maybe share and to be helpful.
我看到了一些关于他们的事情，我也许可以分享并提供帮助。
So I feel all the things I've been through is giving me the experience to be able to do that and help and inspire other people and, yeah, my own kids and anyone that's around me can benefit from my experiences.
所以我觉得我经历过的所有事情都给了我经验，让我能够做到这一点，帮助和激励其他人，是的，我自己的孩子和我周围的任何人都可以从我的经历中受益。
I think at this point, that's probably the reason I did it all in the first place.
我想，在这一点上，这可能就是我最初做这一切的原因。
I wanted to be this guy.
我想成为这样的人。
I wanted to be Mr. Olympia.
我想成为奥林匹亚先生。
I wanted to have these trophies.
我想拥有这些奖杯。
I wanted to make the money and be famous and all that stuff, I suppose, but what was the point of all that?
我想我想赚钱、出名等等，但是这一切有什么意义呢？
I think I get it now more than ever, yeah.
我想我现在比以往任何时候都更明白，是的。
So I'm feeling in a good place.
所以我感觉很好。
I feel peaceful.
我感到平静。
I feel balanced.
我感觉很平衡。
And that's my role now, I think, just to inspire and help other people from my experiences and my knowledge.
我认为，这就是我现在的角色，只是用我的经验和知识来启发和帮助其他人。
I think that's where I'm at now, yeah.
我想这就是我现在的处境，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, you have certainly inspired me and millions of other people, and you're going to continue to, by virtue of your accomplishments, what you've said here today, and everything going forward.
嗯，你确实激励了我和数百万人，凭借你的成就、你今天在这里所说的以及未来的一切，你将继续激励我。
I can't express enough gratitude to you.
我无法向你表达足够的感激之情。
You've really been a leader without realizing it in domains of life that you don't realize for a guy who was plugging away in the lab-
你确实是一个领导者，却没有意识到你在生活领域中的领导者，而对于一个在实验室埋头苦干的人来说，你没有意识到这一点——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
who also liked working out, who didn't become an athlete or a bodybuilder, but really loved fitness.
他们也喜欢锻炼，虽然没有成为运动员或健美运动员，但真的很喜欢健身。
I'm just one example of millions of people who have been truly inspired by you.
我只是数百万真正受到您启发的人之一。
You've shaped and changed the millions of lives.
您塑造并改变了数百万人的生活。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
That's really powerful, man, and I-
这真的很强大，伙计，而且我-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah
是啊
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
really appreciate that-
真的很感激-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Well, it's real
嗯，这是真的
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
...
...
when people come up to me.
当人们来找我时。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's real.
这是真的。
And when I saw that you were into some of the same music and that you like Blondie and Bulldogs and-
当我看到你们喜欢一些相同的音乐并且喜欢 Blondie 和 Bulldogs 以及-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I met her.
我遇见了她。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Did you really?
你真的吗？
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
It was 1990 in New York.
那是 1990 年的纽约。
I met her in the gym there.
我在那里的健身房遇见了她。
And man, I didn't have a fucking camera.
伙计，我他妈的没有相机。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Man, she's amazing.
伙计，她太棒了。
I remember as a kid, and I was like, man, some guys like the swimsuit models.
我记得小时候，我想，伙计，有些人喜欢泳装模特。
I'm like-
我就像-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
No, she was punk rock.
不，她是朋克摇滚。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm like, "Blondie is it." And so just, there are these points of convergence that one feels, and again, I'm saying this for me, but millions of people feel it.
我想，“金发女郎就是这样。”因此，人们感受到了这些交汇点，再说一遍，我是为我自己这么说的，但数百万人也感受到了。
They go, "Oh, Bulldog or Blondie" or whatever it is.
他们会说，“哦，斗牛犬或金发女郎”或者其他什么。
How that you like the hack squat, not the-
你多么喜欢哈克深蹲，而不是-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
Smith rack at a certain stage of your career.
史密斯在你职业生涯的某个阶段表现出色。
I guess you liked both.
我猜你两个都喜欢。
But these things matter in ways that most people will never get the opportunity to say directly to you and thank you.
但这些事情很重要，但大多数人永远没有机会直接对你说声谢谢。
So on behalf of all of them-
所以我代表他们所有人——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Thanks.
谢谢。
Really appreciate that, man
真的很感激，伙计
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
thank you.
谢谢。
And also just on behalf of myself-
也仅代表我自己——
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Thanks for having me on the show
谢谢你邀请我参加节目
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
this has been awesome and-
这太棒了而且-
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
And getting it out there
并把它拿出来
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I'm super grateful that we did it, and I'm excited to train tomorrow.
我非常感谢我们做到了这一点，我很高兴明天能参加训练。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Oh.
哦。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
You're going to get your ass kicked tomorrow, man.
明天你就会被踢屁股，伙计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Nice.
不错。
Yeah.
是的。
I'll admit I'm 1% scared but 99% fired up.
我承认我有 1% 感到害怕，但 99% 感到兴奋。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
Don't worry, you'll be alive.
别担心，你会活着的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
I still got some fucks given.
我还是受到了一些伤害。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
I told a guy once in a...
我有一次告诉一个人...
They were filming me, so it came out.
他们正在拍摄我，所以它就出来了。
I was like, "Just fucking get on this leg press and do this and bring it down under control and press it up and just fucking do that till I tell you to stop, yeah?" I said, "Listen, you're not going to die, but if you do, you won't know about it, so don't worry, man.
我当时想，“他妈的就开始做腿部推举，做这个，在控制下把它放下，然后向上推，就他妈的这样做，直到我告诉你停下来，是吗？”我说：“听着，你不会死，但如果你死了，你也不会知道，所以别担心，伙计。
Just go."
走吧。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's go.
我们走吧。
Awesome.
惊人的。
Dorian Yates:
多里安·耶茨：
All right, man.
好吧，伙计。
Let's see you at Gold's tomorrow.
明天我们金家见。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
See you at Gold's tomorrow.
明天金家见。
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dorian Yates.
感谢您参加今天与 Dorian Yates 的讨论。
To learn more about Dorian and what he's doing now, please see the links in the show note captions.
要了解有关 Dorian 及其现在所做工作的更多信息，请参阅节目注释标题中的链接。
Also linked in the show note caption is the video of the high-intensity, low volume workout that Dorian took me and my producer Rob through at Gold's Gym Venice.
节目注释标题中还链接了 Dorian 带领我和我的制作人 Rob 在威尼斯 Gold's Gym 健身房进行的高强度、低训练量锻炼的视频。
We trained back, it was brutal, and it was awesome.
我们回来训练，这很残酷，但也很棒。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple.
此外，请通过单击 Spotify 和 Apple 上的关注按钮来关注播客。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review, and you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您可以给我们留下五星级的评论，现在您可以在 Spotify 和 Apple 上给我们留下评论。
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
另请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab Podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客、嘉宾或您希望我考虑在 Huberman 实验室播客中讨论的主题有意见，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这本书是我花了五年多时间编写的，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验。
And it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它涵盖了从睡眠到运动再到压力控制的所有协议，以及与注意力和动机相关的协议，当然，我为所包含的协议提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." And if you're not already following me on social media, I am Huberman Lab on all social media platforms.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 Huberman Lab。
So that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab Podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab Podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客上的信息不同。
Again, it's Huberman Lab on all social media platforms.
同样，所有社交媒体平台上都是 Huberman Lab。
And if you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, the Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as what we call protocols in the form of one to three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep, how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络时事通讯，神经网络时事通讯是一份零成本的月度时事通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及我们所说的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议，涵盖从如何优化睡眠、如何优化多巴胺、故意冷暴露等所有内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training.
我们有一个基本的健身方案，涵盖心血管训练和阻力训练。
All of that is available completely zero cost.
所有这些都是完全零成本可用的。
You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to Newsletter, and enter your email.
您只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的菜单选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯，然后输入您的电子邮件。
And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Dorian Yates.
再次感谢您参加今天与 Dorian Yates 的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。
Speaker 3:
演讲者3：
Saying how you feel out loud is terrifying, but that's what Hinge's new free audiobook, "No Ordinary Love," is all about.
大声说出你的感受是很可怕的，但这就是 Hinge 的新免费有声读物“No Ordinary Love”的全部内容。
It's a collection of real love stories about five couples that met on Hinge.
这是一本关于五对在 Hinge 上相识的情侣的真实爱情故事的合集。
The stories are written and read by Tembi Locklear, Nicola Dinan, Curtis Garner, Raven Smith, and Rufi Thorpe.
这些故事由坦比·洛克利尔、尼古拉·迪南、柯蒂斯·加纳、雷文·史密斯和鲁菲·索普撰写和朗读。
I, Hunter Harris, wrote and read the foreword.
我，亨特·哈里斯，撰写并阅读了前言。
The audiobook's out now.
有声读物现在已经出来了。
Give it a listen.
听一下。