Ari Wallach: Create Your Ideal Future Using Science-Based Protocols
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。
My guest today is Ari Wallach.
今天我的客人是阿里·瓦拉赫。
Ari Wallach is an adjunct associate professor at Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs.
阿里·瓦拉赫 (Ari Wallach) 是哥伦比亚大学国际与公共事务学院的兼职副教授。
He is also the host of a new TV series, "A Brief History of the Future." Today's discussion focuses on perhaps one of the most important questions that any and all of us have to ask ourselves at some point, which is: how is it that we are preparing this planet for the future?
他还是新电视剧《未来简史》的主持人。今天的讨论重点可能是我们所有人在某个时候都必须问自己的最重要的问题之一，即：我们如何为这个星球的未来做好准备？
Not just for our children, if we happen to have children or want children, but for all people.
不仅仅是为了我们的孩子，如果我们碰巧有孩子或想要孩子，而是为了所有人。
The human brain, as we know, is capable of orienting its thoughts and its memories to the past, to the present, or to the future.
正如我们所知，人类大脑能够将其思想和记忆导向过去、现在或未来。
But few people actually take the time to think about the future that they are creating on this planet and in culture, within our families, et cetera, for the next generation and generations that follow them.
但很少有人真正花时间思考他们在这个星球上、在文化中、在我们的家庭中等等，为下一代和他们的后代创造的未来。
Ari Wallach is an expert in this topic, and he has centered his work around what he calls Longpath Labs, which is a focus on long-term thinking and coordinated behavior at the individual, organizational, and societal level in order to best ensure the thriving of our species.
阿里·瓦拉赫 (Ari Wallach) 是该主题的专家，他的工作重点围绕他所谓的“长路径实验室”(Longpath Labs)，该实验室专注于个人、组织和社会层面的长期思考和协调行为，以最好地确保我们物种的繁荣。
And while that may sound a bit aspirational, it is both aspirational and grounded in specific actions and logic.
虽然这听起来有点雄心勃勃，但它既是雄心勃勃的，又是以具体的行动和逻辑为基础的。
So during today's episode, Ari Wallach spells out for us not just the aspirations, not just what we want, but how to actually create that positive future and legacy for ourselves, for our families, and for society at large.
因此，在今天的节目中，阿里·瓦拉赫（Ari Wallach）向我们阐述的不仅是我们的愿望，不仅仅是我们想要什么，而是如何为我们自己、我们的家庭和整个社会创造积极的未来和遗产。
It's an extremely interesting take on how to live now in a way that is positively building toward the future.
这是一种非常有趣的方式，探讨了如何以一种积极地走向未来的方式生活在现在。
So by the end of today's episode, you will have a unique perspective on how your brain works, how you frame time perception, and indeed, how you frame your entire life.
因此，在今天的节目结束时，您将对您的大脑如何工作、您如何构建时间感知，以及如何构建您的整个生活有一个独特的视角。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
在开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福大学的教学和研究角色是分开的。
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.
然而，我的愿望和努力的一部分是向公众提供有关科学和科学相关工具的零成本消费者信息。
In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
为了与这个主题保持一致，我要感谢今天播客的赞助商。
Our first sponsor is David.
我们的第一位赞助商是大卫。
David makes a protein bar unlike any other.
大卫制作的蛋白质棒与众不同。
It has 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar.
它含有 28 克蛋白质，仅 150 卡路里，零克糖。
That's right, 28 grams of protein and 75% of its calories come from protein.
没错，28克蛋白质，其75%的热量都来自于蛋白质。
This is 50% higher than the next closest protein bar.
这比第二接近的蛋白质棒高出 50%。
These bars from David also taste incredible.
大卫的这些巧克力棒味道也令人难以置信。
My favorite bar is the cake-flavored one.
我最喜欢的酒吧是蛋糕味的酒吧。
But then again, I also like the chocolate-flavored one, and I like the berry-flavored one.
不过话又说回来，我也喜欢巧克力味的，也喜欢浆果味的。
Basically, I like all the flavors.
基本上所有的口味我都喜欢。
They're all incredibly delicious.
它们都非常美味。
Now, for me personally, I try to get most of my calories from whole foods.
现在，就我个人而言，我尝试从天然食品中获取大部分卡路里。
However, when I'm in a rush or I'm away from home, or I'm just looking for a quick afternoon snack, I often find that I'm looking for a high-quality protein source.
然而，当我很赶时间或者我不在家，或者我只是想吃点下午茶时，我经常发现我正在寻找高质量的蛋白质来源。
And with David, I'm able to get 28 grams of high-quality protein with the calories of a snack, which makes it very easy to hit my protein goals of one gram of protein per pound of body weight, and it allows me to do so without taking on an excess of calories.
有了 David，我就能用一份零食的热量获得 28 克优质蛋白质，这使得我很容易达到每磅体重 1 克蛋白质的蛋白质目标，而且我可以在不摄入过多热量的情况下实现这一目标。
As I mentioned before, they are incredibly delicious.
正如我之前提到的，它们非常美味。
In fact, they're surprisingly delicious.
事实上，它们出奇的美味。
Even the consistency is great.
即使一致性也很棒。
It's more like a cookie consistency, kind of a chewy cookie consistency, which is unlike other bars, which I tend to kind of saturate on.
它更像是饼干的稠度，有点耐嚼的饼干稠度，这与我倾向于饱和的其他巧克力棒不同。
I was never a big fan of bars until I discovered David Bars.
在发现 David Bars 之前，我一直不太喜欢酒吧。
If you give them a try, you'll know what I mean.
如果你尝试一下，你就会明白我的意思。
So if you'd like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman.
因此，如果您想尝试 David，可以访问 david Protein.com/huberman。
Again, the link is davidprotein.com/huberman.
同样，链接是 david Protein.com/huberman。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Helix Sleep.
今天的节目也是由 Helix Sleep 为我们带来的。
Helix Sleep makes mattresses and pillows that are customized to your unique sleep needs.
Helix Sleep 生产根据您独特的睡眠需求定制的床垫和枕头。
I've spoken many times before on this and other podcasts about the fact that getting a great night's sleep is the foundation of mental health, physical health, and performance.
我之前曾多次在这个播客和其他播客中谈到这样一个事实：睡个好觉是心理健康、身体健康和表现的基础。
Now, the mattress we sleep on makes an enormous difference in terms of the quality of sleep that we get each night.
现在，我们睡觉的床垫对我们每晚的睡眠质量有着巨大的影响。
We need a mattress that is matched to our unique sleep needs, one that is neither too soft nor too hard for you, one that breathes well and that won't be too warm or too cold for you.
我们需要一款符合我们独特睡眠需求的床垫，一张对您来说既不太软也不太硬、透气良好、不会太热或太冷的床垫。
If you go to the Helix website, you can take a brief two-minute quiz, and it asks you questions such as, "Do you sleep on your back, your side, or your stomach?
如果你访问Helix网站，你可以做一个两分钟的简短测验，它会问你一些问题，比如“你睡的是仰卧、侧卧还是俯卧？
Do you tend to run hot or cold during the night?" Things of that sort.
你晚上容易发热还是怕冷？”诸如此类的事情。
Maybe you know the answers to those questions, maybe you don't.
也许您知道这些问题的答案，也许您不知道。
Either way, Helix will match you to the ideal mattress for you.
无论哪种方式，Helix 都会为您匹配理想的床垫。
For me, that turned out to be the Dusk mattress, D-U-S-K.
对我来说，这就是 Dusk 床垫，D-U-S-K。
I've been sleeping on a Dusk mattress for, gosh, now more than four years, and the sleep that I've been getting is absolutely phenomenal.
我一直睡在 Dusk 床垫上，天哪，现在已经四年多了，而且我睡得绝对是惊人的。
So if you'd like to try Helix, you can go to helixsleep.com/huberman.
因此，如果您想尝试 Helix，可以访问 helixsleep.com/huberman。
Take that two-minute sleep quiz, and Helix will match you to a mattress that's customized for your unique sleep needs.
进行两分钟的睡眠测验，Helix 将为您匹配专为您独特的睡眠需求定制的床垫。
Right now, Helix is giving up to 25% off all mattress orders.
目前，Helix 为所有床垫订单提供高达 25% 的折扣。
Again, that's helixsleep.com/huberman to get up to 25% off.
再次强调，helixsleep.com/huberman 提供高达 25% 的折扣。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Roka.
今天的节目也是由Roka给我们带来的。
Roka makes eyeglasses and sunglasses that are of the absolute highest quality.
Roka 生产绝对最高品质的眼镜和太阳镜。
I've spent a lifetime working on the biology of the visual system, and I can tell you that your visual system has to contend with an enormous number of different challenges in order for you to be able to see clearly from moment to moment.
我花了一生的时间研究视觉系统的生物学，我可以告诉你，你的视觉系统必须应对大量不同的挑战，才能让你时时刻刻都能看得清楚。
Roka understands all of that and has designed all of their eyeglasses and sunglasses with the biology of the visual system in mind.
Roka 了解这一切，并在设计所有眼镜和太阳镜时都考虑到了视觉系统的生物学原理。
Roka eyeglasses and sunglasses were first designed for use in sport, in particular for things like running and cycling, and as a consequence, Roka frames are extremely lightweight, so much so that most of the time you don't even remember that you're wearing them, and they're also designed so that they don't slip off even if you get sweaty.
Roka 眼镜和太阳镜最初是为运动而设计的，特别是跑步和骑自行车等运动，因此，Roka 镜架非常轻巧，以至于大多数时候您甚至不记得自己戴着它们，而且它们的设计即使出汗也不会滑落。
Now, even though Roka eyeglasses and sunglasses were initially designed for sport, they now have many different frames and styles, all of which can be used not just for sport, but also for wearing out to dinner, to work, essentially any time and any setting.
现在，尽管 Roka 眼镜和太阳镜最初是为运动而设计的，但现在它们有许多不同的镜框和款式，所有这些不仅可以用于运动，还可以在外出就餐、工作时佩戴，基本上可以在任何时间和任何环境下佩戴。
I wear Roka readers at night or Roka eyeglasses if I'm driving at night, and I wear Roka sunglasses in the middle of the day anytime it's too bright for me to see clearly.
我在晚上佩戴 Roka 阅读器，如果晚上开车，我会佩戴 Roka 眼镜；而在中午，当光线太亮而无法看清时，我会佩戴 Roka 太阳镜。
My eyes are somewhat sensitive, so I need that.
我的眼睛有点敏感，所以我需要它。
I particularly like the Hunter 2.0 frames, which I have as eyeglasses and now as sunglasses too.
我特别喜欢 Hunter 2.0 镜框，我把它当作眼镜，现在也把它当作太阳镜。
If you'd like to try Roka, you can go to roka.com/huberman to get 20% off your purchase.
如果您想尝试 Roka，可以访问 roka.com/huberman 享受 20% 的购买折扣。
Again, that's roka.com/huberman to get 20% off.
再次强调，roka.com/huberman 可以享受 20% 的折扣。
And now for my discussion with Ari Wallach.
现在我与阿里·瓦拉赫进行讨论。
Ari Wallach, welcome.
阿里·瓦拉赫，欢迎。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Andrew Huberman, thank you for having me.
安德鲁·休伯曼，谢谢你邀请我。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You and I go way back, and I think that's a good way to frame today's conversation, not by talking about our history by any stretch, but because really what I want to understand is about time and time perception.
你和我可以追溯到很久以前，我认为这是构建今天对话的好方法，不是通过任何延伸来谈论我们的历史，而是因为我真正想了解的是时间和时间感知。
So without going into a long dialogue, the human brain is capable of this amazing thing of being able to think about the past, the present, or the future, or some combination of the three.
因此，无需进行长时间的对话，人类大脑就有能力思考过去、现在或未来，或三者的某种组合，这是一件令人惊奇的事情。
If other animals and insects do that, I wouldn't be surprised, but we do that, and we do it pretty well, provided all our mental faculties are intact.
如果其他动物和昆虫这样做，我不会感到惊讶，但我们这样做，而且做得很好，只要我们所有的智力都完好无损。
One of the key aspects to brain function, however, is to use that ability to try and set goals, reach goals, and that's a neurochemical process.
然而，大脑功能的关键方面之一是利用这种能力来尝试设定目标、实现目标，这是一个神经化学过程。
And I would say these days more than ever, we operate on short timeframe reward schedules.
我现在比以往任何时候都更愿意说，我们的奖励时间表很短。
Meaning, we want something, we generally have ways of getting it pretty quickly, or at least the information about how we might get it pretty quickly, and we either get it or we don't.
意思是，我们想要某种东西，我们通常有办法很快地得到它，或者至少有关于我们如何快速得到它的信息，我们要么得到它，要么得不到。
And of course, it involves dopamine and a bunch of other things as well.
当然，它还涉及多巴胺和许多其他物质。
A lot of your work is focused on linking our perception of what we're doing in the present with knowledge about the past, and trying to project our current decision-making into the future to try and create a better future.
你们的很多工作都集中在将我们对当前正在做的事情的看法与对过去的知识联系起来，并试图将我们当前的决策投射到未来，以尝试创造一个更美好的未来。
And that's some pretty heavy mental gymnastics, especially when many, perhaps most, but certainly many, many people worldwide are just trying to get through their day without feeling overly anxious, without letting their health get out of control, or I should say their illness get out of control, and on and on.
这是一些相当繁重的心理体操，尤其是当世界上许多人，也许是大多数，但肯定是许多人只是试图度过他们的一天而不感到过度焦虑，不让他们的健康失控，或者我应该说他们的疾病失控，等等。
So to kick the ball out, I've got this long-winded question, and it is indeed a question, which is, how do we navigate this conundrum?
因此，为了把球踢出去，我有一个冗长的问题，这确实是一个问题，即我们如何解决这个难题？
If we really care about the future, what do we want to do?
如果我们真的关心未来，我们想做什么？
Where do we want to place our mental frame, and how do we start going about doing that?
我们想要把我们的心理框架放在哪里，我们如何开始这样做？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It's a great question or a great series of questions.
这是一个很好的问题，或者说是一系列很好的问题。
One of the things that Homo sapiens do extremely well is what we call mental time travel.
智人最擅长的事情之一就是我们所说的心理时间旅行。
We're able to actually take ourselves in the current moment and project out.
我们能够真正把握当下并投射出来。
In fact, Marty Seligman, kind of the father of positive psychology, put forth this idea in this great book called "Homo Prospectus," that what separates us out from almost every other species as far as we know, the ones we can talk to, mostly us, is that we do two things extremely well.
事实上，积极心理学之父马蒂·塞利格曼（Marty Seligman）在一本名为《人类概论》的伟大著作中提出了这一观点，据我们所知，我们与几乎所有其他物种的区别，我们可以与之交谈的物种，主要是我们自己，是我们在两件事上做得非常好。
We can do mental time travel towards the future.
我们可以进行通往未来的心灵时间旅行。
We can think about different possible outcomes, different possible scenarios, and we can collaborate to make the ones that we want to see manifest, manifest.
我们可以考虑不同的可能结果、不同的可能场景，并且我们可以合作使我们希望看到的结果变得明显。
Now, that involves language, that involves social interaction, a whole bunch of other things.
现在，这涉及到语言，涉及到社交互动，还有一大堆其他的事情。
But at the end of the day, what we do extremely well, as far as we know, we're the only ones who do it, and I think this is part of the reasons why we're so good at what we do as a dominant species on this planet, is to project out into futures that we want.
但归根结底，据我们所知，我们是唯一能做到这一点的人，而且我认为这就是我们作为这个星球上的优势物种如此擅长所做的事情的部分原因，就是预测我们想要的未来。
We know where this comes from, mostly.
我们大部分都知道这是从哪里来的。
It's coming from the hippocampus, right?
它来自海马体，对吗？
Which one thing about the hippocampus that's amazing is that it's almost atemporal.
海马体令人惊奇的一件事是它几乎是不受时间限制的。
It doesn't actually have a timestamp.
它实际上没有时间戳。
And so what it does is it takes snapshots of episodic memories that have happened in the past, reassembles them so that we can mentally time travel and then figure out these different future scenarios of what might happen.
所以它的作用是拍摄过去发生的情景记忆的快照，重新组合它们，以便我们可以在精神上进行时间旅行，然后找出未来可能发生的不同场景。
So if we take Ari and Andy 150,000 years ago-
所以如果我们以 15 万年前的阿里和安迪为例——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He calls me Andy, folks, but it's Andrew.
伙计们，他叫我安迪，但我叫安德鲁。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Sorry.
抱歉。
Okay.
好的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, it's okay.
不，没关系。
Just stick with Andy, but-
就跟安迪在一起吧，但是——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
I'm going to stick with Andy
我会继续和安迪在一起
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
I'm giving you permission for at least the duration of this episode.
我至少在本集的持续时间内给予您许可。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
For the duration of this episode.
在本集的持续时间内。
So, Andrew, now Andy.
那么，安德鲁，现在是安迪。
Look, here's the thing.
看，事情是这样的。
If Ari and Andy are out on the Serengeti 150,000 years ago, Homo sapiens about 200,000 years ago, about 150,000 years ago, we're kind of starting to spread out of the Rift Valley into Africa, and we're now at a point where we're no longer singular, but we're within a kind of a small tribal structure.
如果阿里和安迪在 15 万年前出现在塞伦盖蒂，智人在大约 20 万年前，大约在 15 万年前，我们就开始从裂谷扩散到非洲，而我们现在正处于一个不再单一的阶段，而是处于一种小型部落结构中。
We want to start hunting larger and larger game.
我们想要开始狩猎越来越大的游戏。
We're no longer reactive.
我们不再被动。
So if we want to go after that game, it's not a foregone conclusion that when we go after something, it's going to do what we want it to do.
因此，如果我们想要追求那款游戏，那么当我们追求某件事时，它就会做我们想要它做的事情，这并不是一个既定的结论。
We have to start thinking about different scenarios.
我们必须开始考虑不同的场景。
So that first kind of mental time travel is really coming from our desire for more protein, to exist, and to grow the group, and really to feed the super energy-intensive thing called the human brain.
因此，第一种精神时间旅行实际上来自于我们对更多蛋白质、存在和发展群体的渴望，以及真正喂养被称为人类大脑的超级能量密集型事物的渴望。
That's where mental time travel starts, and hippocampus takes different memories of different ways we've hunted and been successful in the past or not successful and starts to put together scenarios.
这就是心理时间旅行开始的地方，海马体提取我们过去狩猎和成功或不成功的不同方式的不同记忆，并开始将场景组合在一起。
Now, fast-forward.
现在，快进。
So that's a very long time ago.
那是很久以前的事了。
You take us through the Middle East into Europe, into Asia.
你带我们穿过中东进入欧洲，进入亚洲。
20,000 years ago, our ancestors crossed Beringia, which is now the Bering Strait, and we're in North America.
2万年前，我们的祖先越过白令海峡，也就是现在的白令海峡，来到了北美。
And fast-forward to right now, on my way in here, I get a notification on my phone.
快进到现在，在我来这里的路上，我在手机上收到一条通知。
Ding.
丁。
And I immediately pick up the phone to see, and you've covered this before.
我立即拿起电话查看，您之前已经介绍过这一点。
What's that new information?
那是什么新信息？
What is it that I have to react to?
我必须做出什么反应？
So we're working on 200,000, 300,000-year-old hardware.
所以我们正在研究有 20 万、30 万年历史的硬件。
At the same time, we have a cultural substrate that is, for lack of better words, has hacked into that older part of us to make us, A, want that immediate gratification, and B, force us to now react in a way where that mental time travel has closed that temporal horizon.
与此同时，我们有一个文化基础，因为缺乏更好的语言，它已经侵入了我们较老的部分，使我们，A，想要立即的满足，B，迫使我们现在以一种精神时间旅行封闭了时间视野的方式做出反应。
We're now training ourselves no longer to think about the far future, but to actually think about the immediate present, and I don't mean present in a Buddhist way.
我们现在训练自己不再去思考遥远的未来，而是真正地思考眼前的现在，我并不是指以佛教的方式来思考现在。
I mean presentism as in a hall of mirrors.
我指的是在镜厅里的当下主义。
There is no past, there is no future.
没有过去，也没有未来。
There's only this moment.
只有这一刻。
And so it's becoming extremely difficult for us as individuals, as societies, as civilization, to think about the long term in the way that you and I may have done 150,000 years ago because winter was coming And we would start thinking, where are we going to move our family and our tribe or our clan?
因此，对于我们个人、社会、文明来说，像 15 万年前你我可能所做的那样思考长期问题变得极其困难，因为冬天即将到来，我们会开始思考，我们要把我们的家人、我们的部落或我们的氏族搬到哪里？
And we would go to warmer climates.
我们会去气候温暖的地方。
We don't even do that anymore, right?
我们甚至不再这样做了，对吧？
We're so in this moment that it's becoming extremely difficult for us to break out of this presentist moment.
我们正处于这个时刻，以至于我们很难摆脱这个当下的时刻。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I really appreciate your answer for a couple of reasons.
我非常感谢您的回答，原因有几个。
Through the '90s and early 2000s, and maybe even until 2020, there was a growing movement within science, but also outside of science, towards encouraging people to be mindful.
整个 20 世纪 90 年代和 2000 年代初，甚至可能直到 2020 年，科学内部以及科学之外的运动不断发展，鼓励人们保持正念。
This whole notion of being present.
这整个存在的概念。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
But what you're describing is actually too much being present, what you're calling presentism.
但你所描述的实际上是太多的当下，你所谓的当下主义。
And, of course, it depends on what's happening in the present.
当然，这取决于当前发生的事情。
But in the '80s, in the '90s, in the 2000s, up to about 2020, because of course, we're still in the 2000s, there was this notion of future tripping.
但在 80 年代、90 年代、2000 年代，直到 2020 年左右，因为当然，我们仍然处于 2000 年代，有这种未来跳闸的概念。
Like people are future tripping.
就像人们在未来绊倒一样。
They're spending too much time worrying about the future.
他们花了太多时间担心未来。
I feel like the horizon on our cognition has really come closer in now, and as you said, we're in this sort of hall of mirrors where it's constant stimulus and response.
我觉得我们认知的地平线现在真的越来越近了，正如你所说，我们正处于这种镜子大厅里，那里有不断的刺激和反应。
And I don't want today's discussion to be doom and gloom.
我不希望今天的讨论是悲观的。
We're going to talk about solutions.
我们将讨论解决方案。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I think between what you're saying and what Jonathan Haidt, who was on this podcast, author of "Anxious Generation," "Coddling of the American Mind," professor at NYU, et cetera, has said, I'm starting to really believe that, yes, the human brain can focus on past, present, or future, or some combination, but that something about the architecture of our technologies and our human interactions, because those are so closely interwoven, that's taking place now, has us really locked in the present in stimulus response.
但我认为，在你所说的和这个播客中的乔纳森·海特（Jonathan Haidt）所说的之间，乔纳森·海特是《焦虑的一代》、《溺爱美国思想》的作者，纽约大学教授等，他所说的，我开始真正相信，是的，人类大脑可以关注过去、现在或未来，或者某种组合，但是我们的技术和人类互动的架构，因为这些是如此紧密地交织在一起，现在正在发生，让我们真正锁定在当前的刺激反应中。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'm going to just briefly reference a previous episode of the podcast I did.
我将简单地参考我之前制作的播客节目。
It's one of my favorite conversations ever, on or off microphone, which was with Dr. James Hollis, an 84-year-old Jungian psychoanalyst, where he had many important messages there, but one of them was, we absolutely need to take five to 10 minutes each day to exit stimulus response mode, typically by closing one's eyes and just looking inward, it doesn't even have to be called meditation, in order to understand what our greater wishes are, how to link our current thinking and behavior to the future and to the past.
这是我最喜欢的对话之一，无论有没有麦克风，都是与詹姆斯·霍利斯博士进行的，他是一位 84 岁的荣格精神分析学家，他在那里传达了很多重要的信息，但其中之一是，我们绝对需要每天花 5 到 10 分钟来退出刺激反应模式，通常是闭上眼睛向内看，甚至不必称为冥想，才能了解我们更大的愿望是什么，如何将我们当前的思维和行为与未来和过去。
And I think he's qualified to say this because he's an analyst, that that process actually is a reflection of the unconscious mind.
我认为他有资格这么说，因为他是一名分析师，这个过程实际上是无意识思维的反映。
So, to link these concepts in a more coherent way, is it possible that we are just overwhelmed with notifications, either the traditional type of notifications on your phone, but that we're basically just living in stimulus response all the time now?
那么，为了以更连贯的方式将这些概念联系起来，我们是否有可能只是被通知淹没了，无论是手机上的传统类型的通知，但我们现在基本上一直生活在刺激反应中？
And if so, what direction is that taking ourselves as individuals, as families, as communities, and as a species?
如果是这样，那么把我们自己作为个人、家庭、社区和物种的方向是什么？
I'm basically validating what you just said, even though you don't need my validation, and just asking, how bad is it to just be focused on managing the day-to-day?
我基本上是在验证你刚才所说的话，即使你不需要我的验证，只是问，只专注于管理日常事务有多糟糕？
Or maybe that's a better way to go about life.
或者也许这是更好的生活方式。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
You need to manage the day-to-day.
您需要管理日常事务。
There are people like me who are full-time futurists.
有些人像我一样是全职未来学家。
We tend to be very anxious because what we tend to do is think more in the future and aren't as present as we should be.
我们往往会非常焦虑，因为我们往往会更多地思考未来，而没有像我们应该的那样活在当下。
That being said, if 90% of your day is going about your day dealing with what's right in front of you, that's great.
话虽如此，如果您一天中 90% 的时间都花在处理眼前的事情上，那就太好了。
What I'm advocating for is what I call transgenerational empathy.
我所提倡的是所谓的跨代同理心。
It's a mouthful.
真是一口。
So we know empathy.
所以我们知道同理心。
You've had guests on that.
你已经有客人了。
Transgenerational empathy, first and foremost, starts with empathy and compassion for yourself.
跨代同理心首先是从对自己的同理心和同情心开始。
Then we move into empathy for those who came before, which then allows us to build empathy for the future, future Ari, future Andy, but then future generations.
然后我们开始对前人产生同理心，这让我们能够对未来、未来的阿里、未来的安迪，以及未来的几代人建立同理心。
And we can get into how to do that.
我们可以讨论如何做到这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, maybe we could just parse each of those one by one.
是的，也许我们可以一一解析。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, how do you define empathy for self?
那么，你如何定义自我同理心呢？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
So empathy for yourself is, in many ways, it's almost self-compassion.
因此，从很多方面来说，对自己的同理心几乎就是自我同情。
It's recognizing you're doing the best you can with what you have.
它是认识到你正在利用你所拥有的一切尽力而为。
Part of the issue is we surround ourselves, and I'm guilty of this, of images and quotes and books of how to live your best life, how to be amazing.
部分问题在于我们周围充斥着关于如何过上最好的生活、如何变得令人惊叹的图像、引言和书籍，我对此感到内疚。
And anything below that metric of perfection, you start to feel terrible, and you start to ruminate over what you-- You lie in bed at night, and you think, "How could I have done that?
任何低于完美标准的事情，你都会开始感觉很糟糕，你会开始反思你晚上躺在床上的事情，你会想：“我怎么能这么做呢？
How could I have done that?" And you forget that you're only able to handle what you can at that time, and you can't hold yourself up to this idealized yardstick.
我怎么能这么做呢？”你忘记了你只能处理当时你能处理的事情，你无法用这个理想化的标准来衡量自己。
Look, I dealt with this for a long time.
看，我处理这个问题很长时间了。
We learned my father had stage four cancer when I was 18 years old, and from when we learned to when he passed away was only four months.
当我18岁的时候，我们得知我的父亲患有四期癌症，从我们得知到他去世只有四个月的时间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Four months.
四个月了。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Four months.
四个月了。
And for a lot of that time, I was kind of in denial, right?
在很多时候，我都在否认，对吧？
I wasn't actually there with him as much as I should have been.
事实上，我并没有像我应该的那样经常陪伴在他身边。
In fact, and we won't go into this, I was actually with you that summer.
事实上，我们不会讨论这个，那个夏天我实际上和你在一起。
We were working together that summer at a summer camp.
那年夏天我们在一个夏令营里一起工作。
Now, for years, I beat myself up.
现在，多年来，我一直在打败自己。
How could I have done that?
我怎么能这么做呢？
I should've been home with him.
我应该和他一起回家的。
It was only going to be four months.
只剩下四个月的时间了。
And then I realized, and this is the self-compassion, 18-year-old Ari was only at a place emotionally and psychologically to be able to do what I did, and it wasn't the older 30 or 40-year-old Ari of now of having these regrets.
然后我意识到，这就是自我同情，18岁的阿里只有在情感上和心理上都处于能够做我所做的事情的程度，而不是现在30岁或40岁的阿里有这些遗憾。
So empathy for yourself really centers you.
所以对自己的同理心确实是你的中心。
It doesn't mean you let yourself off the hook.
这并不意味着你可以摆脱困境。
It doesn't mean you can go willy-nilly and treat people terribly.
这并不意味着你可以随心所欲地对待别人。
It means you recognize that who you were even yesterday is in many ways different than who you are today and what you've learned.
这意味着你认识到昨天的你在很多方面都与今天的你以及你所学到的东西不同。
So transgenerational empathy has to start with yourself.
所以跨代同理心必须从你自己开始。
It has to start with being able to look in the mirror and say, "I'm not perfect." I was born into this world, into a family, into my birth family or family that you choose, and they were born into something.
首先必须能够照镜子说：“我并不完美。”我出生在这个世界上，出生在一个家庭中，出生在我的出生家庭或你选择的家庭中，他们出生在某些东西中。
And you work with what you have, but you have to start there because so many times I work with people and I talk to people, and they say, "Oh, I want to have empathy for the past and for the future," but they don't have it for themselves.
你用你所拥有的东西工作，但你必须从那里开始，因为很多时候我与人们一起工作，与人们交谈，他们说，“哦，我想对过去和未来有同理心，”但他们自己没有。
So if you don't start there, it becomes very, very difficult to spread out, first, obviously, going backwards, and then ultimately the goal of my work is to get you to spread that out into the future.
因此，如果你不从那里开始，那么传播就会变得非常非常困难，首先，显然，要倒退，然后我工作的最终目标是让你将其传播到未来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love this concept of empathy for self because I've heard it before in other contexts, but I haven't heard it operationalized the way that you describe it.
我喜欢这种自我同理心的概念，因为我以前在其他情况下听说过它，但我还没有听说过它像你描述的那样运作。
I think there's two phrases that come to mind.
我想我脑海中浮现出两个短语。
There's a book called "A Fighter's Heart" by Sam Sheridan, and it's a pretty interesting account of all the different forms of martial arts and fighting.
萨姆·谢里登（Sam Sheridan）写了一本书，名为《战士的心》，对所有不同形式的武术和格斗进行了非常有趣的描述。
And there's an interesting part of the book where he says, "You can't have your 20th birthday until you're 19," which is a big, giant duh, but it's actually a pretty profound statement.
书中有一个有趣的部分，他说，“你要到 19 岁才能过 20 岁生日”，这是一个很大的废话，但实际上是一个非常深刻的陈述。
And by the way, he went to Harvard.
顺便说一句，他去了哈佛。
He's a smart kid.
他是个聪明的孩子。
His father was in the SEAL teams.
他的父亲曾在海豹突击队服役。
He has an interesting lineage in his own right, and I think at Harvard, he claims he just painted and smoked cigarettes.
他本身就有一个有趣的血统，我想在哈佛，他声称自己只是画画和抽烟。
So bit of an iconoclast.
有点反传统。
In any case, I think that statement, you can't have your 20th birthday until you're 19, is something that we forget because of the immense amount of attention that we pay to trying to be like others and satisfy external metrics.
无论如何，我认为“你要到 19 岁才能过 20 岁生日”这句话已经被我们忘记了，因为我们投入了大量的注意力来试图与他人一样并满足外部指标。
And so I like to think he was in agreement with you, if I may.
因此，如果可以的话，我想他同意你的观点。
The other thing that happened to me recently that comes to mind is that I, like many people, peruse Instagram.
最近发生在我身上的另一件事让我想起，我和很多人一样，都仔细阅读 Instagram。
I teach on Instagram, et cetera, and there are a lot of these quote accounts, kind of like life inspiration accounts.
我在 Instagram 等平台上教学，有很多这样的引言帐户，有点像生活灵感帐户。
And I would argue that the half-life of any one of those posts is pretty short.
我认为这些帖子的半衰期都很短。
But some are pretty interesting, and there's a guy, I'll put it in the show note captions.
但有些很有趣，有一个人，我会把它放在节目注释标题中。
I don't remember off the top of my head.
我根本不记得了。
Not a huge account, not a small account.
不是一个大账户，也不是一个小账户。
I think he lives in Austin.
我认为他住在奥斯汀。
And he goes through this long discourse about the challenges of the human mind for a lot of the reasons that we're talking about, its ability to flit from past to present to future, et cetera.
他通过这篇长篇大论，讲述了人类思维面临的挑战，原因有很多，比如我们正在谈论的人类思维从过去到现在再到未来的能力等等。
But then he says it basically distills down to one actionable step per day or per morning, which is at some point, if you want to grow and be more functional, you have to ask yourself, "What am I going to do today to make my day better?" Not to be better than I was yesterday, which is also a fine statement, but that one never really resonated for me, because yesterday could have been an amazing day.
但他随后表示，它基本上可以归结为每天或每天早上一个可行的步骤，在某些时候，如果你想成长并变得更加实用，你必须问自己，“我今天要做什么才能让我的一天变得更好？”不比昨天更好，这也是一个很好的说法，但这句话从来没有真正引起我的共鸣，因为昨天可能是美好的一天。
You might not be as good as yesterday, right?
你可能没有昨天那么好，对吧？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Every day is kind of its own unique unit, and our biology really does function on these circadian biology units of 24 hours.
每一天都有其独特的单位，我们的生物学确实在这些 24 小时的昼夜节律生物学单位上发挥作用。
There's no negotiating that.
没有什么可谈判的。
So I like this concept of what can I do today to make my life, and hopefully the lives of others, better?
所以我喜欢这个概念：我今天可以做些什么来让我的生活以及希望其他人的生活变得更好？
Because it implies a verb, an action step, and it's really focused on the unit of the day, which is really what we've got.
因为它意味着一个动词、一个行动步骤，而且它真正关注的是当天的单位，这正是我们所拥有的。
So that resonated.
这引起了共鸣。
So according to your definition, empathy for self starts with understanding that we're always doing the best we can with what we've got, but that there's a striving kind of woven into that statement.
因此，根据你的定义，对自我的同理心始于理解我们总是尽我们所能，但这种说法中交织着一种努力。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That there is a need for striving.
那就是需要努力。
At what point do we start to develop empathy for others, and what does that look like?
我们什么时候开始对他人产生同理心？这是什么样的？
Is empathy for somebody else feeling what they feel?
对别人的感受是否有同理心？
I mean, that's the kind of traditional definition.
我的意思是，这是传统的定义。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah, I mean, look, we start off with cognitive intellectual empathy, right?
是的，我的意思是，看，我们从认知智力同理心开始，对吧？
So you kind of think it.
所以你有点这么认为。
But where you really want to be able to be is at a place where their feelings are feelings that you can feel and you want to bring, if they're feeling bad, you want to bring some resolution to it.
但你真正希望能够做到的地方是，他们的感受是你能感受到的，你想要带来的，如果他们感觉不好，你想给他们带来一些解决方案。
If they're feeling good, you can be there with them.
如果他们感觉良好，你可以和他们在一起。
At a fundamental level, this is mirror neurons, and I'm connecting with you and you are connecting with me, and there's a genetic adaptive fitness for that, right?
从根本上讲，这是镜像神经元，我与你连接，你与我连接，这有遗传适应性，对吗？
We all want to kind of be in sync because the tribe that works together flourishes together and thrives together.
我们都希望保持同步，因为共同努力的部落才能共同繁荣、共同繁荣。
So it makes sense at that level.
所以在这个层面上这是有道理的。
But when I'm feeling empathy for another, their state of being can be as important as my own state of being.
但当我对他人产生同理心时，他们的存在状态可能与我自己的存在状态一样重要。
Look, it can be taxing, don't get me wrong, but ultimately, that is what self-compassion can give you because it can give you a state of being where those around you, you are no longer fundamentally disconnected.
听着，这可能很费力，别误会我的意思，但最终，这就是自我同情可以给你带来的，因为它可以给你一种与周围的人不再从根本上脱节的状态。
And I think one of the great errors of where we have taken this civilization over the past several decades, if not centuries, is disconnection.
我认为，在过去几十年甚至几个世纪里，我们对这个文明的最大错误之一就是脱节。
Disconnection from ourselves, disconnection from each other, and disconnection from nature and the planet.
与我们自己脱节，与彼此脱节，与自然和地球脱节。
So anything we can do to further that connection is going to benefit us today in the current moment.
因此，我们为促进这种联系所做的任何事情都将使我们在当前时刻受益。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I agree completely.
我完全同意。
If we were to break that down into the requirements for empathy and connection, one, it seems like presence.
如果我们将其分解为同理心和联系的要求，其一，它看起来像是存在。
We need to be present.
我们需要在场。
If we're going to appreciate a fern, a beautiful fern, or a dog, or a significant other, or another human being that we happen to encounter, we have to be present.
如果我们想要欣赏一株蕨类植物，一株美丽的蕨类植物，或者一只狗，或者一个重要的人，或者我们碰巧遇到的另一个人，我们就必须在场。
If we're going to have empathy, our mind can't be someplace else.
如果我们要有同理心，我们的思想就不能在别处。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Can't be wandering.
不能闲逛。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Can't be in the past, can't be in the future.
过去不可能，未来也不可能。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or we're not going to be able to really touch into the details of the experience.
否则我们将无法真正触及体验的细节。
So that seems like requirement number one.
所以这似乎是第一要求。
The second is that we need to be able to leave whatever kind of pressures are on us to tend to other things, right?
第二个是我们需要能够摆脱任何压力去处理其他事情，对吗？
Like every neural circuit we know has a push and a pull.
就像我们所知道的每个神经回路一样，都有推力和拉力。
Like in order to get A, you need to suppress B, and this is the way neural circuits work generally.
就像为了得到 A，你需要抑制 B，这就是神经回路的一般工作方式。
Flexors and extensors in the muscles are a good analogy For which, by the way, if you're going to flex your bicep, your tricep is essentially relaxing and vice versa, in so many words.
肌肉中的屈肌和伸肌是一个很好的类比，顺便说一句，如果你要弯曲你的二头肌，你的三头肌本质上是放松的，反之亦然，换句话说。
The PTs are going to dive all over me for that one.
PT们会为了这个而向我倾尽全力。
But that's sort of how neural circuits in the brain work.
但这就是大脑中神经回路的工作方式。
We can actually see all around us by virtue of neurons that respond to either increments or decrements in light, and their difference is actually what allows us to see boundaries, borders visually.
我们实际上可以通过对光的增量或减量做出反应的神经元来看到周围的一切，它们的差异实际上使我们能够在视觉上看到边界。
So, we need to suppress our thoughts about where we need to be that day or other things that are going on for us, and then we need to be able to return to our own self-attention in order to be functional.
因此，我们需要抑制对那天我们需要去哪里或其他正在发生的事情的想法，然后我们需要能够回归到我们自己的注意力，以便发挥作用。
And I think this is where the challenge is and where the next question arises, which is, on the one hand, I could imagine that, okay, we've got so many pressures upon us every day, all day, that it's getting much harder to be present, to be empathic, and to build this idealized future or better future.
我认为这就是挑战所在，也是下一个问题出现的地方，也就是说，一方面，我可以想象，好吧，我们每天、每一天都承受着如此多的压力，以至于要活在当下、表现出同理心、建设这个理想化的未来或更美好的未来，变得越来越困难。
But on the other hand, I hear you and other people saying, well, things are so much better than they were even 50 years ago in terms of health outcomes, believe it or not, in terms of status of people having shelter, et cetera.
但另一方面，我听到你和其他人说，不管你信不信，在人们拥有庇护所的状况等方面，情况甚至比 50 年前都要好得多。
And this is a shock to a lot of people.
这让很多人感到震惊。
They're like, "Wait a second.
他们就像，“等一下。
I didn't see homeless people on the street when I was a kid, and now I do." Well, people suffering were elsewhere.
当我还是个孩子的时候，我在街上没有看到无家可归的人，但现在我看到了。”好吧，受苦的人在其他地方。
You perhaps didn't see them.
你或许没有看到他们。
So there are a couple levels of question here, but the first one is, perhaps, are we much better off, but we are worse off in the sense that there's so much incoming that we miss the fact that we're better off?
所以这里有几个层面的问题，但第一个问题是，也许我们的境况变得更好了，但我们的境况变得更糟了，因为有太多的收入，以至于我们错过了我们境况更好的事实？
Is it notifications preventing us from seeing that-
是不是通知阻止我们看到-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
we actually have so much that we're 100 times better off than we were as a species 50 years ago?
我们实际上拥有如此多的资源，以至于我们的生活比 50 年前的物种要好 100 倍？
Because I feel like a lot of the debates that I see online about climate change, about health, about longevity, it's overwhelming because I feel like people aren't agreeing on the first principles.
因为我觉得我在网上看到的很多关于气候变化、健康、长寿的辩论是压倒性的，因为我觉得人们在首要原则上没有达成一致。
So let's start with this.
那么让我们从这个开始吧。
Are human beings better off in terms of health and longevity than we were, let's go short scale, 50 years ago?
人类在健康和寿命方面是否比 50 年前（让我们简单地说）更好？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
So look, in aggregate, because we can find peaks and valleys, right, when we zoom in, if we pull back, there's no better time to be alive as a Homo sapien on planet Earth than right now.
所以总的来说，因为我们可以找到高峰和低谷，对吧，当我们放大时，如果我们退后一步，作为智人在地球上生存，没有比现在更好的时机了。
Now, someone's going to argue right now, and they're going to say, "No, no, no, no."
现在，有人会争论，他们会说：“不，不，不，不。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
According to what metrics?
根据什么指标？
Like happiness?
喜欢幸福吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Health, infant mortality, even as we backslide in this country, being a woman, education, the kind of the calories that we get.
健康、婴儿死亡率，即使我们在这个国家倒退，作为一名女性，教育，我们获得的卡路里。
Look, if you and I go outside and you stepped on a rusty nail 100 years ago, good chance you would die.
听着，如果你和我出去，100年前你踩到了一个生锈的钉子，你很有可能会死。
Right now, we just go to the drugstore and put something on it, or we even know that we don't even have to put anything on it.
现在，我们只是去药店涂一些东西，或者我们甚至知道我们甚至不需要涂任何东西。
We can just put it underneath high-pressure water for 30 seconds, and that'll clean out because we now know germ theory.
我们可以把它放在高压水下 30 秒，然后就可以清洗干净了，因为我们现在知道细菌理论了。
Right?
正确的？
So net-net, this is the best time to be alive.
所以net-net，这是活着最好的时光。
All the markers, you can go to Gapminder if you want, and you can see that we are doing better.
所有的标记，如果你愿意，你可以去Gapminder，你可以看到我们做得更好。
We are progressing.
我们正在进步。
The issue is that we are now at an inflection point because the things that we do or do not do across the major issues of our day and how we deal with them, climate change, artificial intelligence, synthetic biology, what we do or do not do will dictate not only the next several years and several decades, but potentially the next several centuries.
问题是，我们现在正处于一个拐点，因为我们在当今的重大问题上做或不做的事情以及我们如何处理这些问题，气候变化，人工智能，合成生物学，我们做或不做的事情不仅将决定未来几年和几十年，而且可能决定未来几个世纪。
So, you've hit it.
所以，你已经击中了。
We're being bombarded by information.
我们正遭受信息轰炸。
Most of the information we're attracted to is the negativity bias.
我们所吸引的大部分信息都是负面偏见。
You and I on this, we're going to go back to Arn and Andy 150,000 years ago.
你和我，我们将回到 15 万年前的阿恩和安迪。
If we saw this beautiful tree aesthetically, and we saw maybe a tree over here that was on fire, you and I would zoom in on the tree on fire and focus on the negative because negative things hurt and kill us.
如果我们从美学上看到这棵美丽的树，并且我们看到这里可能有一棵着火的树，你和我会放大这棵着火的树并关注消极的事物，因为消极的事物会伤害并杀死我们。
That being said, if you and I run a major media company, you and I both know that the more negative stories that we put out, the more hits we're going to get.
话虽这么说，如果你和我经营一家大型媒体公司，你和我都知道，我们发布的负面故事越多，我们获得的点击量就越多。
The more-
更多的是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not this media company
不是这家媒体公司
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Not this media company.
不是这家媒体公司。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm just, I'm not kidding.
我只是，我不是在开玩笑。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
But all the other ones.
但所有其他的。
Well, I would argue some of your success comes from the fact that you don't wallow in the negativity, and there's a real thirst and a hunger and desire to learn more about who we are and how we can make ourselves better.
好吧，我认为你的成功部分来自于这样一个事实：你没有沉迷于消极情绪，并且有真正的渴望和渴望，想要更多地了解我们是谁以及我们如何使自己变得更好。
But that negativity bias is still part of us, right?
但这种消极偏见仍然是我们的一部分，对吧？
I think one of the issues that we have to confront as a society is that there are parts of us, the prefrontal cortex parts of us, that are amazing, that build microphones, that have conversations, that stream across the internet.
我认为作为一个社会我们必须面对的问题之一是我们的某些部分，我们的前额皮质部分，是令人惊奇的，它们构建麦克风，进行对话，通过互联网进行流式传输。
And then there are parts of us, this is Jonathan's elephant and the rider.
然后还有我们的一部分，这是乔纳森的大象和骑手。
There are parts of us that happen below the surface that have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years of legacy.
我们身体的某些部分发生在地表以下，即使没有数百万年，也有数十万年的遗产。
And we often want to either be up here and say, "Oh, we're so smart.
我们经常想站在这里说：“哦，我们太聪明了。
We're so great," or we want to wallow in the kind of the death and despair and the horrific things that we can do to one another.
我们太伟大了，”或者我们想要沉溺于死亡、绝望以及我们可以对彼此做的可怕事情中。
My personal past, on my father's side, is I think some of the darkest moments in Homo sapien behavior, and that was not that long ago.
我个人的过去，就我父亲而言，我认为是智人行为中最黑暗的时刻，而且那是不久前的事。
So if we want to move into a place that allows us to ask what I think is the fundamental question of our time, which is how do we become the great ancestors the future needs us to be?
因此，如果我们想要进入一个让我们能够提出我认为是我们这个时代的基本问题的地方，那就是我们如何成为未来需要我们成为的伟大祖先？
We need to find a way to both tap into the elephant and the rider, which you'll do a better job in explaining than I will.
我们需要找到一种方法来同时利用大象和骑手，你会比我更好地解释这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, I love this idea.
不，我喜欢这个主意。
We could map it to neural circuits, but I love this idea of high-level concepts and then neural circuits that are very, what Dr. Paul Conti, who was on this podcast, psychiatrist, brilliant psychiatrist, said, the limbic system-
我们可以将其映射到神经回路，但我喜欢这种高级概念的想法，然后是神经回路，就像这个播客中的精神病学家、杰出的精神病学家 Paul Conti 博士所说的那样，边缘系统——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the emotional system doesn't know or care about the clock or the calendar.
情感系统不知道也不关心时钟或日历。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It just elicits feeling.
它只是引起感觉。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It doesn't care about whether or not that feeling is relevant to the past, the present, or the future.
它并不关心这种感觉是否与过去、现在或未来相关。
It just has a job, which is just to bring out a particular feeling.
它只是有一个工作，就是为了带出一种特殊的感觉。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
You're jumping ahead a little bit, but that's okay because what you're jumping into is When we ask and we want to have an empathic connection, we want to have empathy with future generations, we don't want it to just be cognitive.
你有点超前了，但这没关系，因为你要跳入的是，当我们提出要求并且我们想要建立移情联系时，我们希望与后代产生同理心，我们不希望它只是认知性的。
We don't want it just to be intellectual.
我们不希望它只是智力上的。
We actually want it to be emotional.
我们实际上希望它是情感化的。
So if I ask someone, "What do you want the future to be like for your great-grandkids in the 2080s?" And they give me a list of bullet points, but they're usually externalized bullet points.
所以如果我问某人：“你希望 2080 年代你的曾孙的未来是什么样子？”他们给了我一个要点列表，但它们通常是外部化的要点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Shelter, healthcare.
庇护所、医疗保健。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
And then I follow up, and we've done this, and other people much smarter than me have done this study.
然后我跟进，我们已经完成了这项研究，其他比我聪明得多的人也完成了这项研究。
We say, and Yaakov Trope at NYU is the one who taught me this, "How do you want them to feel?" That's different, right?
我们说，纽约大学的雅科夫·特罗普（Yaakov Trope）是教我这一点的人：“你希望他们有什么感觉？”那是不同的，对吧？
This is Damasio's somatic marker hypothesis theory, where if you really want something to happen, it's not just about visualizing it.
这是达马西奥的体细胞标记假说理论，如果你真的希望某件事发生，那么不仅仅是将其可视化。
It's about visualizing it and connecting it to the emotional amygdala sense of what that is to actually move towards the actions and change the behaviors that you want.
这是关于将其形象化，并将其与杏仁核的情感感觉联系起来，从而真正采取行动并改变你想要的行为。
Madison Avenue understands this.
麦迪逊大道明白这一点。
Marketing understands this.
营销人员明白这一点。
They don't-
他们不-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But the general public tends not to.
但一般公众往往不这么认为。
Sorry to keep interrupting you.
抱歉一直打扰你。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But also it's, what is it the kids say?
但还有，孩子们说什么？
Sorry, not sorry.
抱歉，不抱歉。
In the sense that I want to make sure that I highlight something.
从某种意义上说，我想确保我强调了一些东西。
Martha Beck is somebody who I think has done some really brilliant work creating practices where when one is not feeling what they want to feel, there's this question like, are you supposed to feel your feelings, or are you supposed to create new feelings in place of them-
我认为玛莎·贝克做了一些非常出色的工作，创造了一些实践，当一个人没有感受到他们想要的感受时，就会出现这样的问题，你应该感受你的感受，还是你应该创造新的感受来代替它们——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
especially if they're unpleasant.
尤其是当它们令人不愉快时。
And it's like there's no clear answer to that because it's complicated.
似乎没有明确的答案，因为它很复杂。
Infinite number of variables.
无限数量的变量。
But she does have this interesting practice whereby it's a bit like a meditation where if you're struggling with something, like maybe you're struggling with boredom or not knowing where to go with your life, or you're not happy, or you just feel some underlying anxiety, to think back to a time when you felt particularly blank.
但她确实有这种有趣的练习，这有点像冥想，如果你正在与某件事作斗争，比如你正在与无聊作斗争，或者不知道你的生活该往哪里走，或者你不快乐，或者你只是感到一些潜在的焦虑，回想一下你感到特别空白的时候。
Like a time when you felt particularly empowered or particularly curious.
就像你感到特别有力量或特别好奇的时候。
It can be very specific.
它可以非常具体。
Particularly amused.
特别好笑。
And the idea is that in anchoring to the emotion state first, you call to mind a bunch of potential action steps.
这个想法是，首先锚定情绪状态，你会想起一堆潜在的行动步骤。
And the reason I like this approach is that is at least one way that quote-unquote the brain works, which is that the emotion states are linked to a bunch of action step possibilities.
我喜欢这种方法的原因是，这至少是大脑工作的一种方式，即情绪状态与一系列行动步骤的可能性相关联。
Kind of like a magic library where-
有点像一个魔法图书馆——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Uh-huh
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
if you go into the room called sadness, there are a bunch of action steps associated with it that go beyond crying.
如果你进入一个叫做悲伤的房间，除了哭泣之外，还有一系列与之相关的行动步骤。
It's like curling up in the fetal position, et cetera.
这就像蜷缩成胎儿的姿势等等。
You go into the room that's called excitement, and there's all this idea about getting in vehicles and going places and things of that sort.
当你走进一个叫做兴奋的房间时，就会有关于坐上车辆、去一些地方以及诸如此类的事情的想法。
So what you're talking about is, I believe, thinking about the emotional states of others, and then from there, I think this is where you're going to go, cultivating some action steps that you can take to ensure that that future generation can access those emotions.
所以我认为你所说的是思考他人的情绪状态，然后从那里开始，我认为这就是你要去的地方，培养一些你可以采取的行动步骤，以确保下一代能够获得这些情绪。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes, but with a slight correction, because it's not about thinking about their future emotional states, it's actually feeling them.
是的，但需要稍微修正一下，因为这不是考虑他们未来的情绪状态，而是实际感受他们。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I see.
我明白了。
So it's not saying, "I want my kids to be happy.
所以它并不是说：“我希望我的孩子们快乐。
I want them to have no trauma." It's feeling what it would be to be happy-
我希望他们没有受到任何创伤。”感觉什么叫幸福——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
no trauma.
无外伤。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Okay.
好的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Because that becomes an anchor, right?
因为那成为了锚，对吗？
She's 100% correct.
她是100%正确的。
What it does is it, but it places a, it's like a kedge anchor.
它所做的就是它，但它放置了一个，它就像一个木锚。
So if you and I were sailors, which we're not, there's a thing called a kedge anchor.
因此，如果你和我是水手（但我们不是），就会有一种东西叫做小锚。
And a kedge anchor is this anchor that you throw 30, 40 meters off to the side.
基锚是一种可以抛到一边 30、40 米的锚。
It hits the bottom, and you use the rope to pull yourself there.
它落到底部，你用绳子把自己拉到那里。
Emotions will pull us towards those futures.
情绪将把我们拉向那些未来。
It will alter the behaviors.
它会改变行为。
So time and time again, when we intellectualize and we become overly cognitive in terms of futures that we want to see happen for ourselves, future Ari, or future Wallach family, or future society, or future global planetary civilization.
因此，一次又一次，当我们理智化时，我们对未来变得过度认知，我们希望看到我们自己、未来的阿里、未来的瓦拉赫家族、未来的社会、或未来的全球行星文明发生。
If we think about it, that's one thing.
如果我们考虑一下，这是一回事。
But to actually execute on those goals, we have to actually connect the emotional state that we want to be in to drive that function.
但要真正执行这些目标，我们必须真正连接我们想要的情绪状态来驱动该功能。
Remember, look, this is one of the things that Marty Seligman says, that Freud got it wrong.
请记住，看，这是马蒂·塞利格曼所说的弗洛伊德错误的事情之一。
Freud felt, as Marty says, that emotions were these things that happened in the past that we would use to dwell on, and that was neuroses and anxiety and depression.
正如马蒂所说，弗洛伊德认为，情绪是过去发生的、我们会经常回忆的事情，那就是神经症、焦虑和抑郁。
No, no, no. Emotions are there to help us make better decisions for the future.
不，不，不。情绪可以帮助我们为未来做出更好的决定。
We are future-oriented mammals and species.
我们是面向未来的哺乳动物和物种。
So what emotions do, it's not meant to be like, "Oh, I had this terrible breakup.
所以情绪的作用并不意味着，“哦，我经历了一次可怕的分手。
I feel so terrible.
我感觉太可怕了。
And then I'm going to go to my therapist, and I'm going to talk about all that stuff that happened in the past." That's one way of looking at it.
然后我会去找我的治疗师，我会谈论过去发生的所有事情。”这是看待问题的一种方式。
The other way is your body is telling you in a very, very visceral way, whatever you just did that had you in that situation, don't do it again.
另一种方式是你的身体以一种非常非常本能的方式告诉你，无论你刚刚做了什么让你处于那种情况，都不要再这样做了。
Because if you do, you're going to feel a certain way.
因为如果你这样做，你就会有某种感觉。
They did this study where at a college campus, they found people who had just been in a kind of a quasi long-term relationship that had gone through a breakup.
他们在大学校园里做了这项研究，他们发现那些刚刚经历过分手的准长期关系的人。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Quasi long-term.
准长期。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It's like six months.
好像是六个月。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Please define.
请定义。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Six months.
六个月。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What I've learned in life is it's important to define the relationship.
我在生活中学到的是定义这种关系很重要。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes.
是的。
It was about six months.
大约六个月了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
And people who had gone through the breakup, they gave one group a placebo, and another group actually just got acetaminophen, got Tylenol.
经历过分手的人，他们给一组安慰剂，而另一组实际上只服用对乙酰氨基酚，服用泰诺。
And the group that got the acetaminophen actually felt better.
服用对乙酰氨基酚的那组人实际上感觉好多了。
Why?
为什么？
Because we actually feel emotions.
因为我们确实能感受到情绪。
We actually feel pain.
我们确实感到痛苦。
Some of the same circuits are being tripped.
一些相同的电路正在跳闸。
And so that says to me that emotions are there to guide future action.
所以这对我来说，情绪可以指导未来的行动。
So if we can have prosocial emotions, awe, and empathy, and compassion, and this one we call love, as what we're connected to the future generations that we want to see how we want to see them flourish, we are much more likely to see that happen than if we just have a vision of what tomorrow will look like at an intellectual, two-dimensional level.
因此，如果我们能够拥有亲社会的情感、敬畏、同理心和同情心，我们称之为爱，作为我们与子孙后代的联系，我们希望看到他们如何蓬勃发展，那么我们更有可能看到这种情况发生，而不是仅仅在智力、二维层面上展望明天。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.
我想稍微休息一下并感谢我们的赞助商 AG1。
By now, many of you have heard me say that if I could take just one supplement, that supplement would be AG1.
到目前为止，你们很多人都听我说过，如果我只能服用一种补充剂，那么该补充剂就是 AG1。
The reason for that is AG1 is the highest quality and most complete of the foundational nutritional supplements available.
原因是 AG1 是现有的基础营养补充剂中质量最高、最全面的。
What that means is that it contains not just vitamins and minerals, but also probiotics, prebiotics, and adaptogens to cover any gaps you may have in your diet and provide support for a demanding life.
这意味着它不仅含有维生素和矿物质，还含有益生菌、益生元和适应原，可以弥补您饮食中可能存在的任何空白，并为高要求的生活提供支持。
For me, even if I eat mostly whole foods and minimally processed foods, which I do for most of my food intake, it's very difficult for me to get enough fruits and vegetables, vitamins and minerals, micronutrients, and adaptogens from food alone.
对我来说，即使我主要吃天然食品和最低限度加工的食品（这是我摄入的大部分食物的一部分），我也很难仅从食物中获取足够的水果和蔬菜、维生素和矿物质、微量营养素和适应原。
For that reason, I've been taking AG1 daily since 2012 and often twice a day, once in the morning or mid-morning, and again in the afternoon or evening.
因此，自 2012 年以来，我每天服用 AG1，通常每天两次，一次在早上或上午，一次在下午或晚上。
When I do that, it clearly bolsters my energy, my immune system, and my gut microbiome.
当我这样做时，它明显增强了我的能量、我的免疫系统和我的肠道微生物组。
These are all critical to brain function, mood, physical performance, and much more.
这些对于大脑功能、情绪、身体表现等都至关重要。
If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim their special offer.
如果您想尝试 AG1，可以访问 Drinkag1.com/huberman 以获得特别优惠。
Right now, they're giving away five free travel packs plus a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2.
目前，他们赠送五个免费旅行包以及一年的维生素 D3 K2。
Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman to claim that special offer.
再次强调，您可以通过 Drinkag1.com/huberman 领取特别优惠。
I really like this because it gets to so many themes that have been discussed on this podcast previously and that exist in the neuroscience literature of, yes, emotions don't know the clock or the calendar.
我真的很喜欢这个，因为它触及了之前在这个播客上讨论过的许多主题，以及存在于神经科学文献中的主题，是的，情绪不知道时钟或日历。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that sounds like a bad thing, and oftentimes it's discussed as a bad thing, like, oh, when you're feeling stressed, you're not able to access the parts of your brain that can make better decisions.
这听起来像是一件坏事，而且经常被认为是一件坏事，就像，哦，当你感到压力时，你无法访问大脑中可以做出更好决策的部分。
We know that's true, except in light of what's immediately pressing.
我们知道这是真的，除非考虑到当前紧迫的事情。
I would say that stress, in the short term, makes us much better thinkers and movers for sake of survival.
我想说，短期内，压力会让我们成为更好的思考者和行动者，以求生存。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In the long term, it's problematic.
从长远来看，这是有问题的。
But the way that you're describing emotions as a kedge anchor, is that what it's called?
但是你将情绪描述为基锚的方式，就是所谓的吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Kedge with a K?
Kedge 带有 K？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Kedge anchor.
凯奇锚。
Interesting.
有趣的。
As a kedge anchor to pull us forward also leverages the fact that emotions don't know about the clock or the calendar, and that the order of operations here seems to be emotions first, then action steps born out of those emotions-
作为拉动我们前进的基锚，也利用了这样一个事实：情绪不知道时钟或日历，而这里的操作顺序似乎首先是情绪，然后是由这些情绪产生的行动步骤——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and then future state hopefully arrived at if it's set along the right path.
如果沿着正确的道路设定，那么未来的状态有望达到。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I like that a lot.
我非常喜欢这样。
And again, it maps to some of the work that has largely existed, at least to my knowledge, in popular psychology, or whatever you want to call it, self-help.
再说一次，它映射到一些在流行心理学或任何你想称之为自助的工作中已经存在的工作，至少据我所知。
Again, I'm a big Martha Beck fan, in part because of an exercise that she's included in, I think, several if not all of her books, of this perfect day exercise.
再说一遍，我是玛莎·贝克的忠实粉丝，部分原因是她在她的几本书中（如果不是全部的话）中都包含了这个完美的日常练习的练习。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Have you ever done this exercise?
你做过这个练习吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's a very interesting exercise.
这是一个非常有趣的练习。
You first sit with your eyes closed and you imagine really terrible stuff, and you experience it in your body, and you experience it in your mind, and you just pay attention to how it feels.
你首先闭上眼睛坐着，想象非常可怕的事情，你在你的身体中体验它，你在你的脑海中体验它，你只关注它的感觉。
And it sucks.
这很糟糕。
It doesn't feel good.
感觉不太好。
Most people don't have too much trouble doing that exercise.
大多数人做这项练习并没有太大困难。
Then you shift over.
然后你就换过来。
I think you're supposed to take a little break or maybe move around a little bit.
我认为你应该休息一下或者走动一下。
And then you do a perfect day exercise where no rules.
然后你进行完美的一天锻炼，没有任何规则。
You lie down or sit down, close your eyes, and you can imagine your day includes anything you want.
你躺下或坐下，闭上眼睛，你可以想象你的一天包括你想要的一切。
You can be anywhere you want.
你可以去任何你想去的地方。
The room can morph from one country to the next.
这个房间可以从一个国家变成另一个国家。
It doesn't matter.
没关系。
And you also experience the sensations in your body.
你也会体验到身体的感觉。
And in that second exercise, it's remarkable.
在第二个练习中，这是非常了不起的。
I've done it several times now.
我已经做过好几次了。
There are little seeds of things that kind of pop out where you go, "Oh, I didn't realize that would be part of my perfect day." And they're not outside the bounds of reality.
无论你走到哪里，都会有一些小种子突然出现，“哦，我没有意识到这会是我完美的一天的一部分。”而且它们并不脱离现实。
And those are things that then you write down, and that, at least in my life, have all borne out.
这些都是你写下来的事情，至少在我的生活中，这些事情都得到了证实。
So this is an exercise you do routinely.
所以这是你经常做的练习。
And when I first heard about this, I was like, okay, this seems like weird self-hypnosis, self-helpy woo stuff.
当我第一次听说这个时，我想，好吧，这看起来像是奇怪的自我催眠，自助求爱的东西。
Like, come on.
就像，来吧。
At that time, I'm like, "I'm a neuroscience professor.
那时，我想，“我是一名神经科学教授。
You got to be kidding me." And it's a remarkable exercise.
你一定是在跟我开玩笑吧。”这是一次了不起的练习。
And the reason I bring it up now in discussion with you is I think you and Martha arrived at a similar place or a similar avenue.
我现在在与你讨论时提出这个问题的原因是我认为你和玛莎到达了相似的地方或相似的道路。
But in your case, you're talking about specifically toward building a future that's not necessarily for you to live in, but for someone else to live in.
但就你而言，你正在谈论的是专门建设一个不一定适合你居住，而是适合其他人居住的未来。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Oh, look, the core of my philosophy is in a story that I heard a very long time ago.
哦，看，我的哲学的核心是我很久以前听过的一个故事。
It comes from the Talmud.
它来自塔木德。
That being said, this story exists in many cultures.
话虽这么说，这个故事存在于许多文化中。
And so there's a man named Honi walking, and he comes across a much older man who's planting a carob tree.
有一个名叫霍尼的人在散步，他遇到了一个年长得多的人，他正在种植一棵角豆树。
And he says to the older man, "Why are you planting a carob tree?
他对老人说：“你为什么要种一棵角豆树？
How long will it be until this carob tree bears fruit or even has shade?" And he goes, "Oh, it'll be at least 40 years." And he goes, "Well, why plant it?
这棵角豆树要多久才能结果，甚至有树荫？”他说：“哦，至少需要 40 年。”他说：“那么，为什么要种它呢？
You won't be around for that." And the old man says, "When I was young, I played in the shade of a carob tree.
你不会在场的。”老人说：“当我年轻的时候，我在一棵角豆树的树荫下玩耍。
I ate from the carob tree.
我吃的是角豆树上的果子。
So it's my job to plant this carob tree now." This is how societies move forward.
所以现在种植这棵角豆树就是我的工作了。”这就是社会前进的方式。
This is how we become great, is by planting carob trees whose shade we will never know.
这就是我们变得伟大的方式，就是种植我们永远不知道其阴凉的角豆树。
And look, I can give you a bunch of examples.
看，我可以给你举很多例子。
The Panama Canal, that was a great one.
巴拿马运河，那是一个伟大的运河。
Another way that we think about this, we call this cathedral thinking.
我们思考这个问题的另一种方式，我们称之为大教堂思维。
So now, when we're in California, they'll put up a home in three or four days.
所以现在，当我们在加利福尼亚州时，他们将在三四天内搭建一个家。
But back in the day, it took a really long time to build great things.
但在过去，构建伟大的东西需要很长时间。
So you go back 200, 300 years ago, or even further, and oftentimes the architect and the original stonemason who would plant the keystone would not be alive to see this cathedral or mosque fully built.
所以，如果你回到 200、300 年前，甚至更早的时候，通常，负责种植基石的建筑师和最初的石匠都不会活着看到这座大教堂或清真寺完全建成。
That's cathedral thinking.
这就是大教堂的思维。
It's doing things whose fruits you will not be around to take advantage of, to reap, and to have as part of your life.
它是在做那些你无法利用、无法收获、无法成为你生活一部分的事情。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I love it, and I love the notion of cathedral thinking Just the visual there or mosque thinking.
我喜欢它，我喜欢大教堂思维的概念，只是那里的视觉或清真寺思维。
I went to the Blue Mosque years ago.
几年前我去过蓝色清真寺。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
In Istanbul.
在伊斯坦布尔。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've seen some amazing architecture.
我见过一些令人惊叹的建筑。
I love architecture, and I was like, "Okay, it'll be a beautiful building." And I was like, "Whoa!"
我喜欢建筑，我当时想，“好吧，这将是一座美丽的建筑。”我当时想，“哇！”
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
But that-
但那个——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So just like-
所以就像-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
That woe that you felt is what we call awe.
你所感受到的悲伤就是我们所说的敬畏。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Right.
正确的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
And that sense of awe at what they built is what I am advocating for us to build in the world today, is so that when our descendants look back and they say, "What did Ari, what did Andy do?" They have awe.
我提倡我们在当今世界建立对他们所创造的事物的敬畏感，当我们的后代回顾过去时，他们会说：“阿里，安迪做了什么？”他们有敬畏之心。
It's not because we necessarily built cathedrals, it's because we took actions both very small and very large to ensure that they would flourish, that they would have those carob trees.
这并不是因为我们一定要建造大教堂，而是因为我们采取了非常小和非常大的行动来确保它们蓬勃发展，让它们拥有角豆树。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I think what I realize is that I don't know who built the Blue Mosque specifically.
我想我意识到我不知道蓝色清真寺具体是谁建造的。
I don't know who the architect was.
我不知道建筑师是谁。
I should.
我应该。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And even earlier this year we were in Sydney.
甚至今年早些时候我们还在悉尼。
I went to the Sydney Opera House.
我去了悉尼歌剧院。
We did a live there.
我们在那里住了一次。
It's a beautiful building.
这是一座美丽的建筑。
I learned that it had been built over a very long period of time.
我了解到它是经过很长一段时间建造的。
I can tell you that the architect was Danish, but I can't remember his name.
我可以告诉你，建筑师是丹麦人，但我不记得他的名字了。
So part of what we're talking about here is giving up our need for attribution.
所以我们在这里讨论的部分内容是放弃我们对归因的需要。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Giving up our need for credit.
放弃我们对信用的需求。
And gosh, this is the opposite of social media, right?
天哪，这与社交媒体相反，对吧？
Social media, it's all about getting credit.
社交媒体，一切都是为了获得信誉。
And yet in science, where people care a lot about credit while they're alive, and my scientist colleagues hate this, but they know it deeply, too.
然而在科学领域，人们在活着的时候非常关心信用，我的科学家同事们讨厌这一点，但他们也深深地了解这一点。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It's also the business model of academic science right now.
这也是目前学术科学的商业模式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Which is that with the exception of Einstein and a few others, most people will not be associated with their incredible discoveries, even the textbook discoveries, 20 years out.
也就是说，除了爱因斯坦和其他一些人之外，大多数人在 20 年后都不会与他们令人难以置信的发现联系在一起，甚至是教科书上的发现。
And I know this because my dad's a scientist, and I know a lot about the scientists that were ahead of him, and he taught me this early on.
我知道这一点是因为我父亲是一名科学家，我对他之前的科学家了解很多，他很早就教了我这一点。
He just said, "With rare exception, the discoveries are not-- No one's going to say, 'Oh, that's the discovery of so-and-so.'" They talk about the discovery.
他只是说，“除了极少数例外，这些发现不会——没有人会说，‘哦，这是某某人的发现。’”他们谈论这个发现。
People will build on it.
人们将在此基础上继续发展。
So you're part of a process for which you won't get credit in the long run.
因此，从长远来看，您参与的过程不会得到认可。
You will get credit in the short run.
您将在短期内获得信用。
And that brings me around to perhaps a point that's more relevant to everybody, not just scientists, which is that we are all trained to work on these short-term contingencies, reward schedules, where we achieve something, we get credit.
这让我想到了一个可能与每个人都更相关的观点，而不仅仅是科学家，那就是我们都接受过培训，可以处理这些短期突发事件、奖励计划，只要我们取得了一些成就，我们就会获得荣誉。
You get an A, you get a B, you get a trophy.
你得到一个A，你得到一个B，你得到一个奖杯。
We just came from the Olympic track and field trials in Oregon.
我们刚刚从俄勒冈州的奥运会田径选拔赛回来。
It's like podium, bronze, silver, gold.
就像领奖台、铜牌、银牌、金牌一样。
And so yes, you're part of a larger legacy.
所以，是的，你是更大遗产的一部分。
You're building toward a larger legacy in the examples that you give, but part of it is understanding that you're not going to get credit.
在你提供的例子中，你正在为更大的遗产而努力，但其中一部分是要明白你不会得到赞扬。
You're not going to have your name huge on the side of a building.
你不会把你的名字写在建筑物的侧面。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't want to give too many examples, but I work at a university for which there's an endowment the size of a country, right?
我不想举太多例子，但我在一所拥有相当于一个国家规模的捐赠的大学工作，对吧？
We're very blessed to have that endowment.
我们非常幸运能够拥有这项捐赠。
The buildings have names on the side of them.
这些建筑物的侧面都有名字。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The reason they have names on the side of them is because people gave money, typically, gave money to the university to have their name on the side of a building to be immortalized.
他们之所以在侧面刻上名字，是因为人们捐钱，通常是捐钱给大学，让他们的名字刻在建筑物的侧面，以使其永垂不朽。
What's interesting, for many reasons, both sociopolitical but also other reasons, those names change over time.
有趣的是，由于社会政治和其他原因等多种原因，这些名称随着时间的推移而发生变化。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So if people knew that if they gave half their wealth, and their name might be scraped off a building in 200 years, they might feel differently about it.
因此，如果人们知道，如果他们捐出一半的财富，他们的名字可能会在 200 年后从一座建筑物上被刮掉，他们可能会有不同的感受。
So short-term contingencies are important.
因此，短期意外事件很重要。
Then again, we call it Rockefeller Plaza.
话又说回来，我们称之为洛克菲勒广场。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
Is Lincoln Center named after a Lincoln?
林肯中心是以林肯命名的吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
I'm not sure.
我不知道。
It is.
这是。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There you go.
就这样吧。
You're the New Yorker.
你是《纽约客》。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Some Lincoln.
一些林肯。
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so on and so forth.
等等。
So, how do we get the everyday person, and I consider myself an everyday person, how do we get ourselves working on short-term contingencies for a future that we can visualize as better for the next generation and let go of our need for credit?
那么，我们如何让普通人，我认为自己是一个普通人，我们如何让自己致力于短期突发事件，以实现我们可以想象为下一代更好的未来，并放弃我们对信贷的需求？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Great series of points and questions brought up.
提出了一系列精彩的观点和问题。
So part of what you're talking about is egoic legacy, right?
所以你所说的部分内容是自我遗产，对吗？
So you mentioned a building.
所以你提到了一座建筑物。
It could be any building at any major university.
它可以是任何主要大学的任何建筑物。
The name is put there in marble.
这个名字用大理石写在那里。
You said 200 years.
你说200年。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You went to Berkeley at one point.
你曾经去过伯克利。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
I went to Berkeley.
我去了伯克利。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You went to a bunch of places.
你去了很多地方。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But he bounced around, folks.
但他却跳来跳去，伙计们。
Proof that you can bounce around and still be successful, but maybe you should eventually finish.
证明你可以四处走动并仍然取得成功，但也许你最终应该完成。
We'll talk about that later.
我们稍后再讨论这个问题。
But Sproul Plaza.
但是斯普劳尔广场。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Sproul Plaza, seat of the Free Speech Movement.
斯普劳尔广场，言论自由运动所在地。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Although now you could argue, not so free speech movement.
虽然现在你可以争论，但言论自由运动就不那么自由了。
I said that.
我这么说。
Yes, I said that.
是的，我就是这么说的。
Sproul Plaza.
斯普劳尔广场。
I can't tell you who Sproul was.
我不能告诉你斯普劳尔是谁。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Do you know who Sproul was?
你知道斯普劳尔是谁吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Exactly.
正是如此。
I can tell you the arches.
我可以告诉你拱门。
I can tell you that it was a free speech movement.
我可以告诉你，这是一场言论自由运动。
I can tell you that I saw certain bands play there.
我可以告诉你，我看到某些乐队在那里演奏。
I can tell you that it's supposed to be a place where you can say anything and be exempt from being put in jail, basically.
我可以告诉你，这里应该是一个你可以畅所欲言并且基本上可以免于入狱的地方。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Anything.
任何东西。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Maybe that's still true, but I don't think it is.
也许这仍然是事实，但我认为事实并非如此。
But I can't tell you who Sproul is.
但我不能告诉你斯普劳尔是谁。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
The question of legacy is very important.
遗产问题非常重要。
So Sproul Plaza, let's say 250 years from now, that name will probably, it may or may not be there at the plaza, but the name, maybe it was renamed by someone else.
所以说，斯普劳尔广场，假设从现在起 250 年后，这个名字可能会出现在广场上，也可能不存在，但这个名字，也许是被别人重新命名的。
So for titans of industry that can put down several million dollars and put their name on the side of a building, that's one form of legacy.
因此，对于能够投入数百万美元并将自己的名字刻在建筑物侧面的工业巨头来说，这是遗产的一种形式。
That is not the every person.
这不是每个人的情况。
That being said, I have three children, so let's say they continue on at 2.2 children or whatever, my descendants.
话虽这么说，我有三个孩子，所以假设他们继续有 2.2 个孩子或其他孩子，我的后代。
In 250 years, Sproul Plaza may or may not still be called that.
250 年后，斯普劳尔广场可能仍叫这个名字，也可能不再叫这个名字。
But in 250 years, I will have roughly 50,000 descendants.
但250年后，我将拥有大约5万个子孙。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That's a scary-
那是一个可怕的——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
From my wife.
来自我妻子。
I know.
我知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is an exciting thought.
这是一个令人兴奋的想法。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It's an exciting and a scary thought.
这是一个令人兴奋又可怕的想法。
So what is going to impact the future?
那么什么会影响未来呢？
And by the way, if you want to keep giving money to put your name on the side of buildings, please do so.
顺便说一句，如果你想继续捐钱把你的名字刻在建筑物的侧面，请这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh yeah, no, please do that.
哦，是的，不，请这样做。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Please do so.
请这样做。
Please do that.
请这样做。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I should just be very clear.
我应该说得很清楚。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
We'll put the-
我们将把-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Philanthropy at universities and elsewhere, people think of it as like, "Oh, people, egoic legacy." Sure.
大学和其他地方的慈善事业，人们认为它就像，“哦，人们，自我遗产。”当然。
Also pays for Hundreds of thousands of scholarships, the opportunity for people to-
还支付数十万奖学金，让人们有机会-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
And research.
和研究。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
And you need to do it, 100%.
你需要做到这一点，100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's vital.
这很重要。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It's vital.
这很重要。
But for the everyday person like you or me, if I want to impact the future, which I do, because remember, I'm not the kind of futurist where I'm going to...
但对于像你我这样的普通人来说，如果我想影响未来，我就会这样做，因为请记住，我不是那种我要去的未来主义者……
I don't predict the future.
我不预测未来。
My job at this point in time, as I'm manifested in this biological entity called Ari Wallach, is not to predict the future.
正如我在这个名为阿里·瓦拉赫的生物实体中所体现的那样，我此时的工作不是预测未来。
It's to help folks make better decisions today so that we have better futures in the near term, the medium term, and the far-off tomorrows.
它是为了帮助人们今天做出更好的决策，以便我们在近期、中期和遥远的明天拥有更好的未来。
So what's going to impact those 50,000 Wallach descendants is not going to be anything that I did egoically in terms of getting recognition.
因此，影响这 50,000 名瓦拉赫后裔的，不会是我为获得认可而自私地所做的任何事情。
What's going to impact them, and we know this in many ways from across multiple disciplines, what's going to impact them is going to be how I am with my children and my wife and my partner, and the behaviors that I model, because those become the memes, right?
什么会影响他们，我们从多个学科的很多方面都知道这一点，影响他们的将是我与我的孩子、我的妻子和我的伴侣的方式，以及我所模仿的行为，因为这些会成为模因，对吗？
Susan Blackmore has meme theory, right?
苏珊·布莱克莫尔有模因理论，对吗？
Not internet memes, where I watch a lot of those, but true memes, these cultural units that we hand off both laterally and forward longitudinally to other generations, especially those closest to us.
不是互联网迷因，我在那里看到了很多这样的迷因，而是真正的迷因，这些文化单位被我们横向和纵向地传递给其他几代人，尤其是那些离我们最近的人。
If you want to impact the future, there's a bunch of things you can do, right?
如果你想影响未来，你可以做很多事情，对吧？
Reduce your carbon footprint, give money, vote this.
减少你的碳足迹，捐钱，投票。
I want all of those to happen in a positive way.
我希望所有这些都以积极的方式发生。
But at the end of the day, it's monkey see, monkey do.
但归根结底，这是猴子看、猴子做的事情。
How you and I interact right now will obviously impact our relationship, everyone who's listening or viewing.
你和我现在的互动方式显然会影响我们的关系，以及每个正在收听或观看的人的关系。
But then everyone who's listening or viewing, how they are with the person who hands them the coffee, the barista, or they are with their partner, how they model those behaviors is going to impact the future in a greater way, I will argue, than most of the ways we egoically think about having a legacy.
但我认为，每个正在聆听或观看的人，他们如何与递给他们咖啡的人、咖啡师或他们的伴侣相处，他们如何塑造这些行为将对未来产生更大的影响，而不是我们自我认为拥有遗产的大多数方式。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I totally agree.
我完全同意。
And I think I'm old enough, and frankly, I'm excited to be old enough that I can make statements about being old enough to know that I believe that our species is, for the most part, benevolent.
我认为我已经足够老了，坦率地说，我很高兴能足够老，我可以发表声明，知道我相信我们的物种在很大程度上是仁慈的。
I feel like most people, if raised in a low trauma environment-
我觉得像大多数人一样，如果在低创伤环境中长大-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
with adequate resources, will behave really well.
有了足够的资源，就会表现得很好。
There are exceptions, and there may be sociopaths that are born with really disrupted neural circuitry that they just have to do evil.
也有例外，有些反社会人格者可能天生神经回路就被破坏了，他们只能做坏事。
But I think it's clear that trauma and challenge can rewire behavior and certainly the brain to create what we see as evil, right?
但我认为很明显，创伤和挑战可以改变行为，当然也可以改变大脑，从而创造出我们认为邪恶的东西，对吗？
But I think most people are good.
但我认为大多数人都是善良的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Most people are of genuine goodness.
大多数人都是真诚善良的。
And I do think that we model behavior.
我确实认为我们在塑造行为。
I think that etiquette is something that, I guess, as a 49-year-old person, I guess, does that make me middle-aged?
我认为礼仪是一种东西，我想，作为一个49岁的人，我想，这会让我中年吗？
I'm of middle age.
我已经人到中年了。
I'll probably live, hopefully, to be about 100, but we'll see.
我可能会活到 100 岁左右，但我们拭目以待。
Bullet bust or cancer, I'm going to give it what I got.
无论是子弹还是癌症，我都会尽我所能。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It depends on whether or not you read your book fully.
这取决于你是否完整地阅读了你的书。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
There's a response to that that could go either way.
对此的回应可能是任意一种。
I like to think that reading the book fully will extend life as opposed to shorten life.
我认为，充分阅读这本书会延长寿命，而不是缩短寿命。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But if nothing else, maybe it'll cure insomnia.
但如果不出意外的话，也许它能治愈失眠。
The idea here is that if we're going to invest in being our best selves, one would hope that other people will respond to that the way that you said, that we'll kind of mirror each other.
这里的想法是，如果我们要投资成为最好的自己，我们会希望其他人会像你所说的那样做出回应，我们会互相模仿。
Good behavior breeds good behavior.
良好的行为会产生良好的行为。
In my lifetime, I've seen a real increase in the number of rules and regulations and a decrease in etiquette.
在我的一生中，我亲眼目睹了规章制度的数量确实增加了，礼仪的数量却减少了。
And what I would call, and this isn't a real term, I don't think, but spontaneous etiquette or genuine etiquette, like people being kind just to be kind, not because they're afraid of a consequence.
我认为这不是一个真正的术语，而是自发的礼仪或真正的礼仪，就像人们只是为了仁慈而仁慈，而不是因为他们害怕后果。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I have a theory, and I'll go through this quickly.
我有一个理论，我会很快讲完。
I saw a documentary recently about the history of game shows-
最近看了一部关于游戏节目历史的纪录片——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where I learned that the first commercial was during the World Series, when DiMaggio was making a run on the home run record.
在那里我了解到第一个广告是在世界职业棒球大赛期间，当时迪马吉奥正在创造本垒打记录。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Hmm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So they used a sports game that was televised and on the radio to have a first commercial.
因此，他们利用电视和广播中的体育比赛制作了第一个广告。
Then they had game shows, which were basically commercials for the products.
然后他们有游戏节目，基本上是产品的广告。
That's what they were.
他们就是这样。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And they used human interaction as a way to make it more interesting between the contestants and the host.
他们利用人际互动的方式让参赛者和主持人之间的互动变得更加有趣。
And then came reality TV shows.
然后是电视真人秀节目。
And then now I would argue that social media is the reality TV show, and we're all able to opt in and cast ourselves in it, and that the way that people get more, let's just say, presence on the show, is to do things that are more hyperbolic.
现在我认为社交媒体是电视真人秀，我们都可以选择加入并让自己融入其中，而人们在节目中获得更多关注的方式就是做一些更夸张的事情。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah, more outlandish.
是的，更离奇。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's very hard.
这很难。
I've tried, and I think managed to some extent to do so too.
我已经尝试过，并且我认为在某种程度上也做到了这一点。
It's very hard to create a very, very popular social media channel in this reality TV show that we are all in on social media by just being super nice to everybody.
在这个我们都在社交媒体上的真人秀节目中，仅仅通过对每个人都超级友善来创建一个非常非常受欢迎的社交媒体频道是非常困难的。
You can, but it's much harder than if you're a high friction player, because it's less interesting.
你可以，但这比你是一个高摩擦玩家要困难得多，因为它没那么有趣。
There's less drama.
剧情少了点
It takes more attention.
这需要更多的关注。
But I do think that there are pockets of that.
但我确实认为其中有一些。
So Lex Fridman used to talk about this, like is there a social media platform where people are rewarded for being benevolent, for modeling good etiquette because they genuinely like that?
莱克斯·弗里德曼（Lex Fridman）过去常常谈论这个问题，比如是否有一个社交媒体平台，人们因为仁慈、树立良好的礼仪而受到奖励，因为他们真的喜欢这样？
And I say social media because I think so much of life now is taking place there, and that's the opportunity to reach people across continents and far away in time as well.
我说社交媒体是因为我认为现在生活的大部分内容都发生在社交媒体上，这也是接触跨越大洲和遥远时间的人们的机会。
To timestamp down things.
给事情加时间戳。
So here's my question.
这是我的问题。
Is there a version of social media that is not just on the half-life of 12 hours, what was tweeted, et cetera, what was retweeted?
有没有一个社交媒体版本不仅仅只关注 12 小时的半衰期、推文内容等等、转发内容？
Because I would argue that even the highest virality, social media posts have a half-life of about six months to a year.
因为我认为，即使是最高的病毒式传播，社交媒体帖子的半衰期也约为六个月到一年。
Maybe not even that.
也许连这个都不是。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Even that.
即便如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There are a few memes, like the guy looking at the other girl walking the other way, those kinds of memes that seem to persist, but most of them don't.
有一些模因，比如那个男人看着另一个走在另一边的女孩，这类模因似乎持续存在，但大多数都没有。
So is there a time capsule sort of version of social media?
那么社交媒体是否存在类似时间胶囊的版本呢？
Because I look on the internet, like on YouTube, and I would say there are probably three or four YouTube videos, namely the Steve Jobs commencement speech at Stanford in 2015, maybe "Last Lecture" by Randy Pausch before he died of pancreatic cancer, maybe Brené Brown's TED Talk on vulnerability.
因为我在互联网上看，比如在 YouTube 上，我会说可能有三四个 YouTube 视频，即 2015 年史蒂夫·乔布斯在斯坦福大学的毕业典礼演讲，也许是兰迪·鲍什 (Randy Pausch) 死于胰腺癌之前的“最后一场演讲”，也许是布琳·布朗 (Brené Brown) 关于脆弱性的 TED 演讲。
I'm thinking mainly in the self-help space, personal development space here.
我主要考虑自助空间、个人发展空间。
And frankly, aside from that, and most things, as popular as they may seem, 100 million views, 200 million views, compared to literature-
坦率地说，除此之外，大多数东西，尽管看起来很受欢迎，与文学相比，一亿次观看，两亿次观看——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
compared to music, compared to poetry, compared to visual arts, it's going to be gone.
与音乐、诗歌、视觉艺术相比，它将会消失。
Right?
正确的？
I like to think that these podcast episodes are going to project forward 30, 40 years into the future, but if we look at the history of what's on YouTube, and we look at the half-life of any social media post, it may not be the case.
我喜欢认为这些播客剧集将展望未来 30、40 年，但如果我们看看 YouTube 上的历史，以及任何社交媒体帖子的半衰期，情况可能并非如此。
In fact, it's very likely it's not the case.
事实上，很可能事实并非如此。
One would hope that they morph into something that lasts.
人们希望它们能够变成一种持久的东西。
But the question here is: Is there a version of social media that acts as a time capsule to teach the sorts of principles that you're talking about?
但这里的问题是：是否有一种社交媒体版本可以充当时间胶囊来教授您正在谈论的各种原则？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
In the show that I just did, "A Brief History of the Future," one of the places I visit are these caves in the south of Spain, 300 feet below the surface, that are extremely rare because what these caves have in them side by side are both kind of hand paintings done by both Neanderthals and Homo sapiens.
在我刚刚做的节目《未来简史》中，我参观的地方之一是西班牙南部的这些洞穴，位于地表以下300英尺，这是极其罕见的，因为这些洞穴里并排的都是尼安德特人和智人的手绘作品。
It's one of the few places where they exist side by side.
这是它们并存的少数几个地方之一。
So before we talk about social media, we have to talk about what that really is, is storytelling.
因此，在我们谈论社交媒体之前，我们必须先谈谈社交媒体到底是什么，那就是讲故事。
In social media as we know it right now, we're trying to tell the world a story about who we are and what I stand for.
在我们现在所知的社交媒体中，我们试图向世界讲述一个关于我们是谁以及我代表什么的故事。
Why am I here, and why do I matter?
我为什么在这里，为什么我很重要？
And notice me.
并注意我。
My life meant something.
我的生活有意义。
But when we go back to that cave that I stood in where those drawings were from 40, 50,000 years ago, it was, these are the animals that are here.
但当我们回到我站过的那个洞穴，那里有 40、5 万年前的图画时，我们发现，这些就是这里的动物。
Here's when they come by.
就在他们过来的时候。
This is going back to the very beginning of our conversation.
这又回到了我们谈话的一开始。
This is a time of year you should expect to see these animals in this area.
一年中的这个时候，您应该会在该地区看到这些动物。
Right?
正确的？
And it was what Nancy Bardacke calls horticultural time versus mechanical time.
这就是南希·巴达克所说的“园艺时间与机械时间”。
Because that's the way we used to think from 40,000 years to the agricultural revolution, 10, 12,000 years ago, to probably up until a couple of hundred years ago.
因为从 4 万年前到农业革命，从 10、12,000 年前，到可能直到几百年前，我们都是这样思考的。
Remember, the minute hand only existed on the analog clock starting about 200 years ago.
请记住，大约 200 年前，分针才出现在模拟时钟上。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really?
真的吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah, we didn't think in minutes.
是的，我们几分钟内没想到。
Look, the clock as we know it, the mechanical clock as we know it, only comes about during the Industrial Revolution, and especially when we start to have trains.
看，我们所知道的时钟，我们所知道的机械钟，只是在工业革命期间出现的，尤其是当我们开始拥有火车时。
Remember, the transcontinental railroad-
请记住，横贯大陆的铁路——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It was all sundial then?
那时都是日晷吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It was Stonehenge.
那是巨石阵。
It was sundial.
那是日晷。
It was seasons.
这是季节。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Right?
对吗？
The way we would think about the future.
我们思考未来的方式。
Right.
正确的。
When people say, "Oh, Ari, you're a futurist," people like you have always existed.
当人们说，“哦，阿里，你是一个未来主义者”时，像你这样的人一直存在。
No, the idea of the future that is this thing out there that's going to roil over us is relatively new.
不，关于未来的想法是，外面的东西将会搅动我们，这是相对较新的想法。
Because up until a couple of hundred years ago, Ari and Andy, we did exactly probably what our fathers did, and our kids would do exactly what we did.
因为直到几百年前，阿里和安迪，我们可能会做我们父亲所做的事情，我们的孩子也会做我们所做的事情。
There was no kind of evolution in social structure.
社会结构没有任何演变。
But at the advent, as we-
但在来临之际，当我们——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I guess it could be argued I've done a lot of things that my father did.
我想可以说我做了很多我父亲做过的事情。
He was a scientist and there are other domains of life, but yeah.
他是一名科学家，生活还有其他领域，但是是的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
But this goes back to modeling behavior.
但这又回到了建模行为。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Right?
对吗？
The number one predictor if someone's going to read the newspaper is if their parents read the newspaper.
一个人是否会读报纸的第一个预测因素是他们的父母是否读报纸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I saw my dad, he would sit, he'd open the paper.
是的，我看到我爸爸，他会坐下来，打开报纸。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Do you-
你有吗——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I'd poke it from behind-
我会从后面戳它-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
when I wanted his attention.
当我想要他的注意时。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
And well, we can talk about that in a second.
好吧，我们可以稍后讨论这个问题。
The attention part.
注意部分。
And so when I start answering your question about social media, I look at it as an anthropologist from Mars.
因此，当我开始回答你有关社交媒体的问题时，我以来自火星的人类学家的身份来看待它。
That's how I go into every situation.
这就是我应对各种情况的方式。
I want to say, why is it that we're doing what we're doing?
我想说，我们为什么要这么做？
How did that come about, and how might we learn from that so that we can potentially go in a different direction if we choose?
这是怎么发生的？我们如何从中学习，以便我们可以选择走向不同的方向？
All of storytelling is really a way of doing cultural transmission of memes, of ideas, of ways of being, so that we can flourish and move forward as a species.
所有讲故事实际上都是一种文化传播模因、思想和存在方式的方式，以便我们作为一个物种能够蓬勃发展和前进。
So then if you take that at its truth, what is social media right now but nothing but a kind of a hall of mirrors of our culture right now?
那么，如果你认真对待这一点，那么现在的社交媒体是什么，只不过是我们现在文化的一个镜子大厅？
What will they say 200 years from now when they look at these posts with the likes and things, the metrics that we use to judge ourselves individually, and say, "What happened to this species?"
200 年后，当他们看到这些带有“点赞”和“事物”的帖子时，他们会说些什么，这些帖子是我们用来单独评判自己的指标，并说“这个物种发生了什么？”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'd like to take a brief break to thank one of our sponsors, LMNT.
我想短暂休息一下，以感谢我们的赞助商之一 LMNT。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.
LMNT 是一种电解质饮料，拥有您需要的一切，没有您不需要的东西。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, in the correct ratios, but no sugar.
这意味着电解质、钠、镁和钾的比例正确，但不含糖。
Now, I and others on the podcast have talked a lot about the critical importance of hydration for proper brain and bodily function.
现在，我和播客上的其他人已经谈论了很多关于水合作用对于大脑和身体正常功能的至关重要性。
Research shows that even a slight degree of dehydration can really diminish cognitive and physical performance.
研究表明，即使是轻微程度的脱水也会确实降低认知和身体表现。
It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes in order for your body and brain to function at their best.
获得足够的电解质也很重要，这样您的身体和大脑才能发挥最佳功能。
The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, are critical for the functioning of all the cells in your body, especially your neurons or nerve cells.
电解质（钠、镁和钾）对于体内所有细胞（尤其是神经元或神经细胞）的功能至关重要。
To make sure that I'm getting proper amounts of hydration and electrolytes, I dissolve one packet of LMNT in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I wake up in the morning, and I drink that basically first thing in the morning.
为了确保我获得适量的水合作用和电解质，当我早上醒来时，我将一包 LMNT 溶解在大约 16 至 32 盎司的水中，并且我基本上早上第一件事就是喝它。
I also drink LMNT dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise I'm doing, especially on hot days if I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes.
我还会在进行任何体育锻炼时饮用溶解在水中的 LMNT，尤其是在炎热的天气里，如果我大量出汗并失去水分和电解质。
If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/huberman, spelled drink L-M-N-T.com/huberman, to claim a free LMNT sample pack with the purchase of any LMNT drink mix.
如果您想尝试 LMNT，可以访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman（拼写为 Drink L-M-N-T.com/huberman），购买任何 LMNT 混合饮料即可领取免费 LMNT 样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.
再次强调，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/huberman 索取免费样品包。
One of the reasons I fell in love with biology is that Yes, we are evolving as a species, but I would argue slowly enough that any fundamental knowledge about biology of the human body is a core truth about us way back when and now, and very likely into the future.
我爱上生物学的原因之一是，是的，我们作为一个物种正在进化，但我会慢慢地争辩说，任何有关人体生物学的基础知识都是关于我们的核心真理，可以追溯到过去和现在，很可能在未来。
And of course, technologies will modify that, medicine will modify our biology, et cetera.
当然，技术会改变这一点，医学会改变我们的生物学，等等。
But I get great peace from that.
但我从中得到了极大的平安。
And most of the so-called protocols that I describe on the podcast about viewing sunlight, et cetera, circadian rhythmicity, et cetera, has been core to our biology and our wellbeing 100,000 years ago, and very likely it will be core to our biology 100,000 years from now.
我在播客中描述的大多数关于观察阳光等、昼夜节律等的所谓协议，在 10 万年前就已经成为我们生物学和福祉的核心，而且很可能在 10 万年后也将成为我们生物学的核心。
I therefore worry about any technology that shortens up our timescale of motivation and reward.
因此，我担心任何会缩短我们激励和奖励时间的技术。
And I use social media, so I am not anti social media by any stretch.
我使用社交媒体，所以我并不反对社交媒体。
In fact, I'm quite pro, provided it's kept in check, a la Jonathan Haidt's ideas, I really like those.
事实上，我非常赞成，只要它受到控制，就像乔纳森·海特的想法一样，我真的很喜欢那些。
But let me put it this way.
但让我这样说。
If I go to Las Vegas, which I do enjoy doing from time to time, I'm not a gambling addict.
如果我去拉斯维加斯（我确实偶尔喜欢去那里），我就不是一个赌博成瘾者。
I guess if I say that enough times, people are going to say I'm a gambling addict, but I enjoy playing a little bit of roulette or a little bit of the slots.
我想如果我说的次数足够多，人们会说我是一个赌博成瘾者，但我喜欢玩一点轮盘赌或一点老虎机。
I play all the low-level stuff that doesn't require any thinking.
我玩所有不需要任何思考的低级东西。
And I often do pretty well, for whatever reason, because I know when to leave probably.
不管出于什么原因，我经常做得很好，因为我知道什么时候可能离开。
But Vegas is all about short-term thinking-
但维加斯的一切都是短期思维——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
and short-term reward contingency.
以及短期奖励的偶然性。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's actually designed in every respect to get you to forget-
它实际上在各个方面的设计都是为了让你忘记——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
that there are these other longer timescales, and-
还有其他更长的时间尺度，并且-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
That's why there's no natural light in most casinos.
这就是大多数赌场没有自然光的原因。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
There's no lights, there's no clocks in many of them.
很多地方都没有灯，也没有钟。
The random intermittent reward schedule that's there is designed to keep you playing.
随机的间歇性奖励计划旨在让您继续玩下去。
And I would argue that a lot of social media is like that.
我认为很多社交媒体都是这样的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not all of it, but a lot of it is like that.
不是全部，但很多都是这样。
Likes and responses, in some cases fighting is what people want.
喜欢和回应，在某些情况下，战斗才是人们想要的。
They want to fight because they like that emotion.
他们想要战斗，因为他们喜欢那种情感。
The algorithms figure you out so that they shorten up your temporal window.
这些算法会了解你的情况，从而缩短你的时间窗口。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And so when people say, "Oh, we're walking around with a little slot machine in our pocket all day long with our smartphone," I actually think that's right.
因此，当人们说“哦，我们整天带着智能手机在口袋里装着一台小老虎机走来走去”时，我实际上认为这是对的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I think it's right.
我认为这是对的。
It's more like a casino, however, where that casino harbors all sorts of different games, and they're going to find the one that you like.
然而，它更像是一个赌场，赌场里有各种不同的游戏，他们会找到你喜欢的游戏。
Some people like playing roulette.
有些人喜欢玩轮盘赌。
I happen to like playing roulette.
我碰巧喜欢玩轮盘赌。
Some people like craps, some people like poker.
有些人喜欢花旗骰，有些人喜欢扑克。
Some people like to bet on a game where you get to sit the whole game with the possibility of winning.
有些人喜欢下注于一场比赛，让您可以参加整场比赛，并且有可能获胜。
A friend of mine who's actually an addiction counselor, he said, "The gambling addiction is the absolute worst of all the addictions." Why?
我的一位朋友实际上是一名毒瘾咨询师，他说：“赌博成瘾绝对是所有成瘾中最严重的。”为什么？
Because the next time really could change everything.
因为下一次真的可以改变一切。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Unlike alcoholism or drug addiction or other forms of addiction where the next time is just going to take you further down.
与酗酒、吸毒或其他形式的成瘾不同，下一次只会让你更加堕落。
In gambling, there is the realistic possibility that the next time could change everything, and that destroys lives.
在赌博中，现实的可能性是，下一次可能会改变一切，从而毁掉生命。
So if we are walking around with a sort of casino in our pocket, how do we get out of that mindset, much less use that tool in order to get into these longer term investments for the future?
因此，如果我们口袋里装着某种赌场，我们如何摆脱这种心态，更不用说使用该工具来进行未来的长期投资了？
This is what I want to know.
这就是我想知道的。
How do we get into the metaphorical cave painting scenario?
我们如何进入隐喻性的洞穴绘画场景？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because what it means is that the stories that I'm seeing on social media today probably are meaningless toward my future.
因为这意味着我今天在社交媒体上看到的故事可能对我的未来毫无意义。
Probably.
大概。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
More than likely, yes.
很有可能，是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I need to be informed.
但我需要被告知。
But I saw the debates, like how much more do I need to hear about what was happening at the debates from other people?
但我看到了辩论，比如我还需要从其他人那里听到辩论中发生的事情吗？
Probably zero.
可能为零。
There's no new information there.
那里没有新信息。
The only thing that can happen is I can get caught in the little eddy of the tide pool that is the debate about the debate, or the debate about the debate about the debate.
唯一可能发生的事情是我可能会陷入潮池的小漩涡，那就是关于辩论的辩论，或者关于辩论的辩论的辩论。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, it takes a strong mind to divorce oneself from all of that, much less get into this longer term thinking.
因此，需要有坚强的意志才能摆脱这一切，更不用说进行这种长期思考了。
And maybe this is why David Goggins is always out running and hates social media so much, even though he's used it to good end to share his message.
也许这就是为什么大卫·戈金斯总是外出跑步，并且非常讨厌社交媒体，尽管他已经利用社交媒体来分享他的信息。
What is it that we can do to disengage from that short-term contingency reward mindset and behaviors, and what in the world can we do instead?
我们可以做些什么来摆脱这种短期应急奖励心态和行为？我们到底能做什么呢？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Is it go paint on the side of a cave?
是在洞穴的一侧画画吗？
Is it write a book?
是写书吗？
How do we do that?
我们该怎么做呢？
And let's check off the box of we need to tend to our kids, we need to tend to our health, we need to get our sleep, we need to get our...
让我们勾选我们需要照顾我们的孩子、我们需要照顾我们的健康、我们需要睡觉、我们需要......
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Sure.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Let's just assume that we're taking care of the fundamentals of health and wellbeing.
让我们假设我们正在关注健康和福祉的基本原则。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Which doesn't leave a whole lot of time afterwards anyway.
无论如何，这之后不会留下很多时间。
What do we do?
我们该怎么办？
Where should the stories go?
故事应该去哪里？
Where do we put them?
我们把它们放在哪里？
I feel really impassioned by this because I devote my life to this, right?
我对此感到非常激动，因为我为此奉献了我的一生，对吗？
And I teach biology because I believe it's fundamental and transcends time.
我教生物学是因为我相信它是基础性的并且超越时间。
But I care about the future, and I'm well aware that in 30 years, the idea that there was a guy on the internet talking about the importance of getting morning sunlight, sure, that might happen.
但我关心未来，我很清楚，30 年后，如果有人在互联网上谈论获得早晨阳光的重要性，当然，这可能会发生。
But probably no one will care.
但可能没有人会在意。
Just like I realized about halfway through my scientific career that, sure, I was tenured at Stanford, won some awards, enjoyed the research, enjoyed the day-to-day, but I realized, okay, I feel good about the research contributions we made, but that I knew that people weren't going to be like, "Oh, Huberman discovered this," because I had already forgotten the people 32 years ahead.
就像我在科学生涯中途意识到，当然，我在斯坦福大学获得了终身教职，赢得了一些奖项，享受研究，享受日常生活，但我意识到，好吧，我对我们所做的研究贡献感到满意，但我知道人们不会说，“哦，休伯曼发现了这个，”因为我已经忘记了 32 年前的人们。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I know the literature really well.
我对文学非常了解。
So, how do you square these different mental frames?
那么，你如何调整这些不同的心理框架呢？
It's a conundrum.
这是一个难题。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Well, this is the fundamental question of our time, is what is the purpose of our species being here on Earth?
嗯，这是我们这个时代的根本问题，我们人类来到地球的目的是什么？
And for thousands of years, that was answered by religion The idea about who we are and why we are here, more often than not, was answered in the afterlife.
几千年来，宗教都回答了这个问题。关于我们是谁以及我们为什么在这里的想法，往往是在来世得到答案。
But then along came our friend rationality and logic, and the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.
但随后出现了我们的朋友理性和逻辑，以及文艺复兴和启蒙运动。
And as Nietzsche said, I'll give you the full quote, "God is dead, and now we're basically screwed."
正如尼采所说，我会给你完整的引用，“上帝死了，现在我们基本上完蛋了。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But I don't believe that.
但我不相信这一点。
I believe in God.
我相信上帝。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've gone on record saying that before.
我之前已经公开说过这句话。
And there are many people who believe in God and the afterlife.
还有很多人相信上帝和来世。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But it still is difficult to navigate the day-to-day.
但应对日常工作仍然很困难。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Well, because I want to separate out what scientific rationality and the scientific method did, is it didn't actually kill God.
嗯，因为我想把科学理性和科学方法的作用分开，它实际上并没有杀死上帝。
What it actually did was it killed the structures that arose to intermediate between us and God, AKA the Church.
它实际上所做的是它杀死了我们和上帝之间的中介结构，也就是教会。
And this is not a conversation about theology, this is a conversation about structures and about power.
这不是一场关于神学的对话，这是一场关于结构和权力的对话。
Right?
正确的？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So science destroyed religion?
那么科学摧毁了宗教吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
100%.
100%。
It destroyed the stories that religion told us about our larger purpose.
它摧毁了宗教告诉我们的关于我们更大目标的故事。
Because what ended up happening-- Look, oftentimes folks will say, "Well, science destroyed God and destroyed religion because it told us where we came from." We're not coming from seven days, where God spun the Earth and created the heavens in seven days.
因为最终发生的事情——看，人们常常会说，“好吧，科学摧毁了上帝并摧毁了宗教，因为它告诉我们我们来自哪里。”我们不是来自上帝在七天内旋转地球并创造天堂的七日。
I think we're at a point now where we're starting to realize that science actually tells us, going back 13.7 billion years ago to the Big Bang, we can quibble with that number, up to today, science is telling us how we got to this point.
我认为我们现在正开始意识到，科学实际上告诉我们，追溯到 137 亿年前的大爆炸，我们可以对这个数字提出质疑，直到今天，科学正在告诉我们我们是如何到达这一点的。
What science cannot do, and what technology cannot do, is tell us where we should be going.
科学和技术无法做到的就是告诉我们应该去往何处。
And I'm not saying God should be telling us what we should be doing, or spirituality.
我并不是说上帝应该告诉我们应该做什么，或者灵性。
What I'm saying is that-
我想说的是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You're not going to argue you can tell God what to tell us.
你不会争辩说你可以告诉上帝该告诉我们什么。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No. I'm not going to argue.
不，我不会争论。
But we're-
但我们是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wait, but the term you just said, that science and technology cannot tell us where we need to go.
等等，但是你刚才说的这个词，科学技术不能告诉我们我们需要去哪里。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No. Look, so the work that I do, this mindset that I'm advocating for, I call Long Path.
不，看，所以我所做的工作，我所倡导的这种心态，我称之为“漫长的道路”。
Long Path sits on three pillars.
长路坐落在三根柱子上。
To use your nomenclature, there are three protocols.
为了使用您的命名法，共有三种协议。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
One, transgenerational empathy.
一、跨代同理心。
Empathy with yourself, empathy with the past, and then empathy with the future.
同情自己，同情过去，然后同情未来。
You need those three.
你需要这三个。
The second pillar is futures thinking.
第二个支柱是未来思维。
You'll notice it's future with an S, as opposed to the singular future.
您会注意到它是带 S 的将来时，而不是单一的将来时。
Because we often think of the future as a noun, this thing that's out there, as opposed to what the future really is, which is a verb.
因为我们经常将未来视为名词，即存在的事物，而不是真正的未来，即动词。
It's something that we do.
这是我们所做的事情。
Then the final pillar, the one that is the most difficult for us to wrap our head around, is this idea of telos, ultimate aim, ultimate goal.
最后一个支柱，也是我们最难理解的支柱，就是“目的”（telos）、终极目的、终极目标这一理念。
What are we here for?
我们来这里是为了什么？
So we all suffer from what I call a lifespan bias.
所以我们都遭受着我所说的寿命偏见的困扰。
So the most important unit of time to Andrew Huberman is from your birth to your death.
因此，对安德鲁·休伯曼来说，最重要的时间单位是从出生到死亡。
We're all wired that way.
我们都是这样的。
Because that's the literature, the science that I grew up with.
因为那是伴随我成长的文学、科学。
I grew up and I want to be a geneticist.
我长大了，我想成为一名遗传学家。
That's where I started.
这就是我开始的地方。
What the literature tells us about us as a biological entity is that the most important unit of time is from my birth to my death.
文献告诉我们，作为一个生物实体，最重要的时间单位是从我出生到我死亡。
But the reality is, for our species, and it has been going back hundreds of thousands of years, is that these things actually overlap.
但现实是，对于我们这个物种来说，可以追溯到数十万年前，这些事情实际上是重叠的。
I come from my parents, then I am here, and now my children.
我来自我的父母，然后我在这里，现在是我的孩子们。
These are not distinct units.
这些不是不同的单位。
There's massive overlaps in terms of the culture, the emotional, the psychology of what I got from them, what I'm giving to my kids.
我从他们那里得到的东西，以及我给予孩子们的东西，在文化、情感和心理方面有很大的重叠。
But what ends up happening in a lifespan bias society, the one that we exist in right now, is we have lost the telos.
但在我们现在所处的一个存在寿命偏见的社会中，最终发生的事情是我们失去了目的。
We have lost the ultimate aim or goal or purpose for our species, for our civilization on this planet.
我们已经失去了我们物种、这个星球上的文明的最终目标或目的。
I'm not going to tell you what that is.
我不会告诉你那是什么。
What I am going to say is when you don't have that, because God is no longer in the picture, religion is no longer in the picture, we flounder about, and we're looking for metrics to judge, am I doing the right thing?
我要说的是，当你没有这些时，因为上帝不再在画面中，宗教不再在画面中，我们陷入困境，我们正在寻找衡量标准来判断，我做的是正确的事吗？
Do I matter?
我重要吗？
Will people know who I am 200 years from now?
200年后人们会知道我是谁吗？
Is my sense of purpose connected to anything larger?
我的目标感与更大的事情有关吗？
And without these larger religious structures that we had for thousands of years, the answer is no. I'm not-
如果没有我们数千年来拥有的这些更大的宗教结构，答案是否定的。我不是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But there are still many people on the planet-
但这个星球上仍然有很多人——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Oh, yeah
哦，是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
who believe in God and are religious.
他们相信上帝并且有宗教信仰。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
So does that-
也是如此——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
More than there are that aren't religious.
比不信教的人还要多。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So does that mean that they're immune from this confusion?
那么这是否意味着他们不会受到这种混乱的影响？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Well, no, because there's other confusions that come from it, right?
嗯，不，因为还有其他的混乱，对吧？
Religion, as it's practiced in majority parts of the world, and this is where I'm going to get a lot of hate mail, is mostly about power and coercion a- a- and control.
世界上大部分地区都信奉宗教，而这也是我会收到大量仇恨邮件的地方，宗教主要是关于权力、强制和控制的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not at its essence.
并非其本质。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Not at its essence.
并非其本质。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I would say that for every major religion.
我会对每一个主要宗教都这么说。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I would say for every religion, the essence of it is about love.
我想说，对于每一种宗教，其本质都是关于爱。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
The essence is about love and emancipation from the human condition to connect to something larger, to connect to the divine.
其本质是关于爱和从人类状况中解放出来，以连接到更大的事物，连接到神圣。
The problem is when the business models get in the way, right?
问题是商业模式何时阻碍，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right.
对。
Like with anything.
就像任何事情一样。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Like with anything.
就像任何事情一样。
And so we-
所以我们——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But that's true of science, too.
但科学也是如此。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
That's obvious.
这是显而易见的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, I know a lot about the business models of science.
我的意思是，我对科学的商业模式了解很多。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
You referenced it earlier, right?
你之前提到过，对吧？
Science, it's no longer pure Medici-type science where you're doing these things and let-- It's publish, it's perish.
科学，它不再是纯粹的美第奇式科学，你在做这些事情，然后让它——它出版了，它就灭亡了。
There's business models.
有商业模式。
Can we take it from the lab to the-
我们能把它从实验室带到-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Believe in it.
相信它。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
100%.
100%。
And that is part of where we are.
这就是我们现状的一部分。
What I'm asking for when we have a conversation about our telos is to rise up out of this current moment and say, most mammals kind of have about a million years that they exist on Earth from when they rise up to when they go extinct.
当我们谈论我们的目的时，我所要求的是从当前时刻站起来说，大多数哺乳动物从它们崛起到灭绝，它们在地球上存在了大约一百万年。
We're in the first third of this ballgame, right?
我们现在处于这场球赛的前三分之一，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, that's reassuring.
嗯，这让人放心。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
We're in the-
我们在——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because I keep hearing about the fact that we're almost dead.
因为我不断听说我们快要死了。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No, we're-
不，我们是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So we're about a third of the way through?
那么我们已经完成了三分之一了？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
We're in the bottom of the third inning.
我们处于第三局下半。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Oh, goodness.
哦，天哪。
Yeah, all right.
是的，好吧。
Well, you finally said something that gives me...
好吧，你终于说了一些让我感动的话……
I'm just kidding.
我只是开玩笑。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No, they're like-
不，他们就像——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Lots of things that you've said give me confidence in our future.
你说的很多话让我对我们的未来充满信心。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Well-
嗯-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Most notably that you're talking about this.
最值得注意的是你正在谈论这个。
Sorry to interrupt, but I'm going to compliment you, so maybe it's okay.
抱歉打扰了，但我要恭维你，所以也许没关系。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
I'll stop talking now.
我现在就不说话了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Most notably that I think you're the first person outside of The sub-branch of neuroscience, which is a very small sub-branch, people that study time perception, to really call to people's consciousness that the human brain can expand or contract its time perception.
最值得注意的是，我认为您是神经科学分支（这是一个非常小的分支）之外的第一个研究时间感知的人，真正唤起了人们的意识，即人脑可以扩展或收缩其时间感知。
And we do this all day long.
我们整天都这样做。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
All the time.
一直以来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And high salience, high stress, high excitement, life and thinking shrinks the aperture.
而高显着性、高压力、高兴奋性，生活和思维的光圈就会缩小。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right?
对吗？
It contracts the aperture and makes us very good at dealing with things in the present, get to the next day or the next hour, collapse, go and continue.
它缩小了光圈，使我们非常擅长处理当下的事情，到达第二天或下一个小时，崩溃，继续。
Repeat.
重复。
It's the opposite of what the Buddhists traditionally said, which was to be present in order to see the timelessness.
这与佛教徒传统所说的相反，佛教徒传统上所说的“临在才能看到永恒”。
This is why I'm a big fan of the, I forget the name.
这就是为什么我是它的忠实粉丝，我忘记了名字。
Rob will have to edit this in the, Asatoma prayer, which talks about release me from the time-bound nature of consciousness to timelessness.
罗布必须在阿萨托玛祈祷中编辑这一点，该祈祷谈到将我从意识的时间限制中释放到永恒。
Sounds very mystical, but what they're really talking about is get me out of the mode of stress, into the mode of relaxation that allows me to see how the now links with the past and relates to the future.
听起来很神秘，但他们真正谈论的是让我摆脱压力模式，进入放松模式，让我看到现在与过去以及未来的联系。
Impossible to do when we're under stress, trying to figure out how we're going to get someplace in traffic to pick up the kids so they're not waiting outside the school alone.
当我们面临压力时，我们不可能做到这一点，试图弄清楚我们如何去交通堵塞的地方接孩子们，这样他们就不会独自在学校外面等待。
Impossible.
不可能的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You just can't.
你就是不能。
The two deep breaths and the long exhale, it works to bring your level of autonomic arousal down, make you navigate that situation better.
两次深呼吸和一次长呼气，可以降低你的自主唤醒水平，让你更好地应对这种情况。
But it is the hyper rare individual who thinks, "Well, look, this is linked to some larger timescale." When we are stressed, the horizon gets right up close.
但极少数人会认为：“好吧，看，这与某个更大的时间尺度有关。”当我们感到压力时，地平线就会变得很近。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So you're one of the first people to talk about this dynamic relationship with that horizon.
所以你是第一批谈论这种与地平线的动态关系的人之一。
Is there a way that we can leverage the immediacy of our experience, that fact, to actually create useful tools for the future?
有没有一种方法可以让我们利用我们的经验的即时性，即事实，来真正为未来创造有用的工具？
Like so for instance, before we started recording, we were talking about the notion of time capsules.
例如，在我们开始录音之前，我们正在讨论时间胶囊的概念。
I've been keeping a time capsule for a long time.
我已经保存了一个时间胶囊很长时间了。
The first idea for this came when I was a kid.
当我还是个孩子的时候，第一个想法就出现了。
We used to build skateboard ramps in the backyard, and I'll never forget that right before we put down the first layer of plywood, we put a time capsule in there.
我们曾经在后院建造滑板坡道，我永远不会忘记，在我们放下第一层胶合板之前，我们在那里放了一个时间胶囊。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And we all wrote little notes and did things.
我们都写了一些小笔记并做了一些事情。
I think someone put some candy in there or something.
我想有人在里面放了一些糖果之类的东西。
It's kind of a cool concept, right?
这是一个很酷的概念，对吧？
But social media, to me, does not seem like a time capsule.
但对我来说，社交媒体并不像一个时间胶囊。
I feel like it's just going to get turned over.
我感觉这件事快要翻盘了。
What are the real time capsules of human experience?
人类经验的实时胶囊是什么？
So you said religion, religious doctrine.
所以你说宗教，宗教教义。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Bible, Quran, Torah, being the big three.
《圣经》、《古兰经》、《妥拉》为三大神。
And there are others, of course.
当然还有其他的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But those are the big three.
但他们是三巨头。
Bible, Quran, Torah.
圣经、古兰经、托拉。
Those are big three time capsules.
那些是大的三个时间胶囊。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Then we've got literature, music, poetry, visual art, so paintings, drawings, and sculpture.
然后我们有文学、音乐、诗歌、视觉艺术、绘画、素描和雕塑。
What else do we have?
我们还有什么？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
So let's bring this down to the individual, like what one of my practices is, or I'll go through a couple of them.
因此，让我们把这个问题具体化到个人身上，就像我的一种做法一样，或者我将介绍其中几种。
And so one of them, if you come to my home, which hopefully you'll come over-
所以其中之一，如果你来我家，希望你能过来——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I've been to your home.
我去过你家。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah, but you know.
是的，但你知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's been a while.
已经有一段时间了。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It's been a while.
已经有一段时间了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That was a complaint.
那是一个抱怨。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
That was a, you know.
那是一个，你知道。
Wait, I don't know if I haven't invited you, or you just...
等等，我不知道是我没有邀请你，还是你只是……
I don't, whatever.
我不，无论如何。
We'll talk about it afterwards.
我们稍后再谈。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Whenever I make it to Manhattan, I have a hard time getting out of Manhattan.
每当我到达曼哈顿时，我都很难离开曼哈顿。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It's true.
这是真的。
So we have a shelf with a bunch of family photos.
所以我们有一个架子，上面放着一堆家庭照片。
And there's photos of my grandparents, my parents, myself, my kids.
还有我的祖父母、我的父母、我自己、我的孩子的照片。
And then to the right of that, there's actually, and people are always like, "Why didn't you take care of this?" There's a blank photo frame.
然后在右边，实际上，人们总是说，“你为什么不处理这个？”有一个空白的相框。
Just blank.
只是空白。
I have three kids.
我有三个孩子。
They're young.
他们很年轻。
But that blank photo frame represents my grandkids or future generations.
但那个空白相框代表了我的孙子或后代。
It's just something that I can immediately see when I think about the decisions.
当我思考这些决定时，我可以立即看到这一点。
That's why I said long path is a mindset, so there's all these complicated things, and it's also a mantra.
所以我说长路是一种心态，所以有这么多复杂的东西，也是一个咒语。
So when I get into an argument with my wife, or I have a conversation with you, or anything like that, and I immediately have the stimulus arousal response where I want to act in the short term, but I actually want to see the bigger picture.
因此，当我与妻子发生争执，或者与你交谈，或者类似的事情时，我会立即产生刺激唤醒反应，我想在短期内采取行动，但我实际上想看到更大的前景。
And, again, this is highly self-referential, I understand that.
再说一遍，这是高度自我参照的，我理解这一点。
I'll just say, "Long path." I'll say, "What are we really trying to do here?
我只想说：“路漫漫其修远兮。”我会说：“我们在这里真正想做什么？
What is this actually all about?" And that, because I've been doing this long enough, brings me back.
这到底是怎么回事？”因为我已经这样做了足够长的时间，这让我又回来了。
So when I see that third empty picture frame, it always reminds me that I'm here for this one segment.
因此，当我看到第三个空相框时，它总是提醒我，我是来观看这一片段的。
There was a segment before, and there's a segment coming after me.
之前有一个片段，后面还有一个片段。
And so how I am in my daily interactions is going to impact that.
因此，我在日常互动中的表现将会影响这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How far?
有多远？
So just a few questions more specifically about you, because I think what you're doing here is you're concretizing a process, a protocol, if you will, that anyone can use.
所以只有几个关于你的更具体的问题，因为我认为你在这里所做的是具体化一个流程，一个协议，如果你愿意的话，任何人都可以使用。
And I would argue that the shift from printed photos, largely from printed photos to electronic photos, has made this problematic.
我认为，从印刷照片（主要是从印刷照片到电子照片）的转变导致了这个问题。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's made certain things simpler, like if you change relationships, you can just delete a folder as opposed to having to actually take photographs from-
它使某些事情变得更简单，例如，如果您改变关系，您只需删除文件夹即可，而不必实际从以下位置拍摄照片：
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
a previous relationship and make sure-
以前的关系并确保-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
they're not around-
他们不在身边——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
in case your next relationship would-
如果你的下一段关系会-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
understandably take issue with that.
对此有异议是可以理解的。
I'm not speaking from experience here.
我在这里所说的并不是经验。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No.
不。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But how far back do your photos go?
但你的照片可以追溯到多久之前呢？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It's interesting.
这很有趣。
The photos of my grandparents, who both perished in the Holocaust, were saved by my father, who was in World War II, fought with the Jewish underground, made his way through Europe to Cuba to Mexico, where he eventually met my mom, and I was born.
我的祖父母都在大屠杀中丧生，我的父亲保存了我祖父母的照片，他在第二次世界大战中与犹太地下组织并肩作战，穿越欧洲到古巴再到墨西哥，在那里他最终遇到了我的妈妈，我就出生了。
The photos that we have, he had kept in his wallet for several decades, and he had them kind of reconstructed and turned in.
我们拥有的照片，他在钱包里保存了几十年，他对它们进行了重建并上交。
That's as far back as we go.
这就是我们所能追溯到的最久远的事情了。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So grandparents.
所以祖父母。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, and then you're married.
好吧，然后你就结婚了。
You have three kids.
你有三个孩子。
And then you have this-
然后你就有了这个-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Empty photo frame
空相框
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
empty photo frame.
空相框。
And you're the same age as me.
而且你和我同岁。
You're 50 or you're 49?
你50岁还是49岁？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
49.
49.
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
49.
49.
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But you seem to be in good health.
但你看起来身体状况很好。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes.
是的。
And seemingly young, right?
而且看起来很年轻，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
You have energy.
你有能量。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You've always had a lot of energy.
你一直都精力充沛。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You used to call yourself Ari Ferrari.
你曾经称自己为阿里·法拉利。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You said you're like a Ferrari.
你说你就像一辆法拉利。
That's why the name Ari.
这就是阿里这个名字的由来。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
I don't think this was a name that I gave to myself.
我不认为这是我给自己起的名字。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Ari and I have known each other since we were little kids.
阿里和我从小就认识。
He's always had a ton of energy.
他总是精力充沛。
Actually, he hurt himself when he was younger, and he was in full traction, like cast of his whole lower body.
事实上，他年轻时曾受过伤，当时他处于完全牵引状态，就像整个下半身都被打上了石膏。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he would dance on the floor on his arms, kind of like David Goggins will treadmill-
他会在地板上用手臂跳舞，有点像大卫·戈金斯在跑步机上跳舞——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
on his hands, even when he can't move his legs.
即使他无法移动双腿，也可以用双手支撑。
Okay, so chances are you'll meet your grandkids.
好吧，你很可能会见到你的孙子。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Hopefully.
希望如此。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
God willing, you'll meet your grandkids.
上帝保佑，你会见到你的孙子。
But probably not your great-grandkids.
但可能不是你的曾孙。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Probably not.
可能不会。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay.
好的。
Well, I have a different tool.
好吧，我有一个不同的工具。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
But let me say something.
但让我说几句话。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
I will not probably meet them biologically, like in the sense that this big lump of cells will probably not meet my great-grandchildren.
我可能不会在生物学上遇到他们，就像这一大块细胞可能不会遇到我的曾孙一样。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
But what will meet them, I'm 100% sure of, is the way that I've modeled being in the world to partners, be they my wife, my children, business colleagues.
但我 100% 确信，迎接他们的是我向合作伙伴（无论是我的妻子、孩子还是商业同事）塑造的处世方式。
That modeling.
那个造型。
My kids will be in the room sometimes when I'm on work calls, nothing confidential, and they'll hear in the background.
当我接工作电话时，我的孩子有时会在房间里，没有什么机密，他们会在后台听到。
They'll hear how I interact, how I am in the current human moment.
他们会听到我如何互动，我在当前的人类时刻如何。
They are learning.
他们正在学习。
They are receiving.
他们正在接收。
That is how I'm going to meet my great-grandkids.
这就是我去见我的曾孙的方式。
That's how I will be in the room with them.
这就是我和他们在房间里的方式。
How I have been is going to impact 30 or 40 generations out.
我的所作所为将影响 30 或 40 代人。
That 50,000 descendants that I talked about earlier, 250 years from now, I will meet them.
我刚才讲的那五万子孙，250年后，我会见到他们。
I will be with them.
我会和他们在一起。
They may not know my name, who I am, but hopefully the way they treat a stranger or they interact with their partners comes about how I did it, that modeled behavior, that transmission.
他们可能不知道我的名字，我是谁，但希望他们对待陌生人或与伴侣互动的方式来自我的做法，那种模仿行为，那种传播。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I get it.
是的，我明白了。
And it's interesting because I think that, well, and you're on the internet, so people will see you on the internet, probably at least 30, 50 years out, if you Google your name or whatever it's called at that point.
这很有趣，因为我认为，好吧，你在互联网上，所以人们会在互联网上看到你，可能至少 30、50 年后，如果你在谷歌上搜索你的名字或其他任何名字的话。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I get in trouble whenever I say Googling.
每当我说“谷歌搜索”时，我就会遇到麻烦。
People go, "Why don't you talk about a different search?" Because that's the one everyone uses.
人们会问，“你为什么不谈谈不同的搜索呢？”因为大家都用这个。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Unless you use DuckDuckGo because you're afraid of what people might So when someone comes up with a truly better one, maybe it'll get replaced, but meanwhile, Google.
除非你使用 DuckDuckGo 是因为你害怕人们可能会做的事情，所以当有人想出一个真正更好的产品时，也许它会被取代，但与此同时，谷歌。
So your great-grandkids could possibly know you there.
所以你的曾孙可能在那里认识你。
They could hear-
他们能听到——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
this conversation.
这次谈话。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This very conversation.
这次谈话。
I think that's part of the reason why people go on social media, not just to be consumers, but they want to leave something.
我认为这就是人们使用社交媒体的部分原因，不仅仅是为了成为消费者，而且他们想留下一些东西。
They're probably not thinking about it consciously, but they want to leave something for the future.
他们可能没有有意识地考虑这一点，但他们想为未来留下一些东西。
I use a tool that I learned from a friend.
我使用从朋友那里学到的工具。
He has this Your Life in Weeks, I think-
我认为他有《几周后的人生》——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
it's called, and it's this fill-in chart-
它的名字是这样的，就是这个填充图表——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
where you put your birthday, you put your predicted lifespan.
你把你的生日放在哪里，你就把你的预计寿命放在哪里。
So for me, I put 100.
所以对我来说，我放了100。
It feels good to me.
我感觉很好。
I'm not interested in living much past 100 unless there's some technology that would allow me to do that with a lot of vigor and my friends would be around.
我对活过 100 岁不感兴趣，除非有某种技术可以让我充满活力地做到这一点，而且我的朋友也会在身边。
And you mark off the, you fill in these little squares.
然后你划掉，然后填写这些小方块。
And I did it this morning, actually, and I'm not quite halfway through, but I'm about halfway through.
事实上，我今天早上就做到了，虽然我还没有完成一半，但我已经完成了一半。
And it's an interesting thing to see your life in that representation.
在这种表现中看到你的生活是一件很有趣的事情。
You go, "Oh, wow." It can inspire better decision-making because we can lose track of where we are in time.
你会说，“哦，哇。”它可以激发更好的决策，因为我们可以及时忘记自己所处的位置。
And some of us, including me, are not very good at tracking time.
我们中的一些人，包括我在内，不太擅长跟踪时间。
People that have ever waited for me on an appointment know this.
曾经在预约中等过我的人都知道这一点。
I'm very oriented in space, not well-oriented in time.
我对空间很敏感，但对时间不太敏感。
So the problem with these charts is that, or photos on the shelf, I would argue, is they have great utility, but the problem is that they're not in the forefront of our consciousness throughout the day.
因此，我认为这些图表或架子上的照片的问题在于它们具有很大的实用性，但问题在于它们并不是全天处于我们意识的最前沿。
I filled out that chart.
我填写了那张图表。
I didn't even think about it again until now.
直到现在我也没有再去想这个问题。
And when we are pressed with a decision, in some cases, we have the opportunity to step back and say, "Okay, look, in the bigger arc of things, I got to go left here even though I want to go right.
当我们被迫做出决定时，在某些情况下，我们有机会退后一步说：“好吧，看，在更大的弧线中，即使我想向右走，我也必须向左走。
This is the right thing for my-"
这对我来说是正确的——”
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
The bigger arc.
弧线越大。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The bigger picture.
更大的图景。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
The bigger picture.
更大的图景。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The bigger picture.
更大的图景。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Long path.
漫长的道路。
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So is there a way, is there maybe a technology that actually serves us to anchor us to best decision-making, for a given best time bin, we would call it in neuroscience, best time binning, mode of time binning, for a given decision?
那么有没有一种方法，是否有一种技术可以真正帮助我们做出最佳决策，对于给定的最佳时间区间，我们在神经科学中称之为最佳时间区间，时间区间模式，对于给定的决策？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
I think you asked yourself a question.
我想你问了自己一个问题。
When you're facing a not should I have turkey or chicken for lunch, but maybe a slightly, or maybe that question, too.
当你面临一个不应该吃火鸡或鸡肉作为午餐的问题时，但也许是一个轻微的问题，或者也许也是这个问题。
Just ask yourself, am I being a great ancestor?
问问你自己，我是一个伟大的祖先吗？
What will allow me to be a great ancestor?
什么能让我成为一个伟大的祖先？
How will descendants look back on this decision, go left or right?
后代人会如何看待这一决定，向左还是向右？
That's going to elevate you.
这会提升你。
You talked about deleting photos and stuff like that.
你谈到删除照片之类的事情。
So I'll tell you about the work.
那么我就给大家介绍一下工作吧。
On my advisory board is a guy named Hal Hershfield, smart, great guy at UCLA, who does a lot of future you work.
我的顾问委员会中有一位名叫哈尔·赫什菲尔德（Hal Hershfield）的人，他是加州大学洛杉矶分校的聪明而优秀的人，他为你未来的工作做了很多工作。
And so what he did was, and I'll do the short version of this, stuck a bunch of people into an fMRI, functional MRI, to see kind of where the flow is.
所以他所做的是，我会做这个的简短版本，让一群人接受功能性核磁共振成像，功能性核磁共振成像，看看血流在哪里。
And he asked them, he did a series of questions where he's like, "Think about yourself right now," and one part of your brain lit up.
他问了他们，他问了一系列问题，他说，“现在想想你自己，”你大脑的一部分亮了起来。
And then he goes, "Okay, I want you to think about this celebrity." I think he used Matt Damon and Natalie Portman, and another part of their brain lit up.
然后他说：“好吧，我想让你想想这位名人。”我认为他利用了马特·达蒙和娜塔莉·波特曼，他们大脑的另一部分被点亮了。
And then he goes, "I want you to think about yourself 10 years from now." And guess what?
然后他说：“我希望你想想十年后的自己。”你猜怎么着？
The part of the brain that lit up for the celebrities, Natalie and Matt, was the same part that lit up when thinking about you 10 years from now.
娜塔莉和马特这两位名人大脑中亮起的部分，与十年后想起你时亮起的部分是一样的。
So you had a vague idea of who future Ari was, but you weren't totally connected to them.
所以你对未来的阿里是谁有一个模糊的想法，但你与他们并没有完全联系。
It was like a stranger to you.
它对你来说就像一个陌生人。
Pulled them out.
把他们拉了出来。
One group did nothing.
一组什么也没做。
Another group, he took a photo of them, and he took a photo, ages them, and then puts them into a 3D virtual reality.
另一组，他给他们拍了一张照片，然后他给他们拍了一张照片，让他们变老了，然后把他们放到了3D虚拟现实中。
And you're in a room, and at one point, and you don't know this is going to happen, as you walk across the room, you see a mirror, and you look at yourself in the mirror, and it's a photo of you, but aged 10 years.
你在一个房间里，有一次，你不知道会发生这种事，当你走过房间时，你看到一面镜子，你看着镜子里的自己，这是一张你的照片，但年龄是 10 岁。
So you're seeing an older version of you.
所以你看到的是旧版本的你。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yikes.
哎呀。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
So he-
所以他——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I mean, and cool.
我的意思是，而且很酷。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Very cool.
非常酷。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Does this intervention, pulls them out, brings them back, I think two weeks later, and he has them hypothetically put money away for a savings account.
我想两周后，他会让他们把钱存入储蓄账户。
You know exactly what happens.
你很清楚会发生什么。
The people who saw a version of their aged self put more money away for a future retirement account than the folks that didn't.
那些看到老年自己的人比那些没有看到自己的人为未来的退休账户存了更多的钱。
So the question is, not only are we disconnected from the future, my future descendants, I'm disconnected from my future self.
所以问题是，我们不仅与未来、我未来的后代脱节，我也与未来的自己脱节。
So what I've done, and you'll see this in the show, it's scary because I look just like my dad, and you'll always look like your dad when you do this, is even though we-
所以我所做的，你会在节目中看到这一点，这很可怕，因为我看起来就像我的父亲，而当你这样做时，你将永远看起来像你的父亲，即使我们 -
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I look a lot like my mom, too
我看起来也很像我妈妈
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
...
...
we've been bagging on social media, you can go on Snap or other places where they'll age you, right?
我们一直在社交媒体上装袋，你可以去 Snap 或其他地方，他们会让你变老，对吧？
It'll make you look 10, 15 years older, and you can send it to your partner, and everybody laughs.
它会让你看起来老 10 岁、15 岁，你可以把它发送给你的伴侣，每个人都会笑。
So I took a screenshot and I-
所以我拍了一张截图然后-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Everybody laughs as opposed to saying you look great.
每个人都笑而不是说你看起来很棒。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No, no, no. Everyone's like, "Oh my God." And so, once I read about this Hal's research many years ago, I printed that out, my little home printer, cut it out, and it's on my bathroom mirror.
不，不，不。每个人都会说：“天哪。”因此，当我多年前读到哈尔的这项研究时，我用我的小型家用打印机将其打印出来，剪下来，然后放在我浴室的镜子上。
And every day I spend two or three seconds staring at future older Ari in his 70s.
每天我都会花两三秒钟盯着未来70多岁的老阿里。
That's how I make better decisions today.
这就是我今天做出更好决定的方式。
And those better decisions aren't just about putting money for retirement, it's about also how do I take care-- Do I floss or not?
这些更好的决定不仅仅关乎为退休存钱，还关乎我如何照顾——我是否使用牙线？
You get at the end of the night, you want to just brush your teeth and go to bed, huh?
到了晚上，你只想刷牙然后上床睡觉，对吧？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
No, you need to floss at night.
不，你需要在晚上使用牙线。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
You need to floss at night.
你需要在晚上使用牙线。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We did an episode on oral health.
我们做了一集关于口腔健康的节目。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah, I know.
是的，我知道。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I learned from the dentist-
我从牙医那里得知——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It's the most important-
这是最重要的——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right before sleep
就在睡觉前
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
...
...
the most important way to take care of future self is flossing, by the way, just to be clear.
顺便说一句，照顾未来的自己最重要的方法是使用牙线。
I've learned this from many people.
我从很多人那里学到了这一点。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's actually true.
这确实是真的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No, it's true.
不，这是真的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's so key for brain and body health.
它对于大脑和身体健康至关重要。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
It's unbelievably key.
这是令人难以置信的关键。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The dentists are going to thank you.
牙医会感谢你的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
But we don't do it.
但我们不这样做。
But if you look at your mouth 20 years from now, staring at you as you're smiling with the older version of Andy with you, a little bit less hair, a little bit more wrinkles, you're going to do it.
但如果 20 年后你看着你的嘴，看着你微笑着，老版的安迪和你在一起，头发少了一点，皱纹多了一点，你就会这么做。
This is what Hal's work has showed.
这就是哈尔的作品所展示的。
So that's another thing that I've done, is just look at that image of future you and connect with it.
这是我所做的另一件事，就是看看未来你的形象并与之联系。
That's about having compassion for yourself.
这就是对自己有同情心。
That's part of this kind of transgenerational empathy component.
这是这种跨代同理心成分的一部分。
The one thing I want to circle back on, because we could quickly fly past it, is this idea of futures thinking versus the singular future.
我想回顾的一件事是，未来思维与单一未来的想法，因为我们很快就会过去。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I definitely want to touch on that.
是的，我确实想谈谈这一点。
Can I just ask you a question real quickly before here?
在这之前我可以先问你一个问题吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Of course.
当然。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This notion of, let's say, a protocol for imagining future self, or actually visualizing future self, not as a way to scare yourself into better health habits, although if it works, great, but as a way to really get your mind into the reality that if you survive, you're going to get older by definition.
比方说，这个概念是一个想象未来的自己的协议，或者实际上想象未来的自己，不是一种吓唬自己养成更好的健康习惯的方法，尽管如果它有效，那就太好了，而是一种让你真正认识到这样一个现实的方法：如果你活下来，你就会按照定义变老。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And that person needs care and in an environment, and your kids are going to grow up, too.
这个人需要照顾，需要一个环境，你的孩子也会长大。
We know this.
我们知道这一点。
Okay.
好的。
So that's all obvious.
所以这一切都是显而易见的。
I feel like barring accident or injury or disease, most people have a kind of intuitive sense of how long they're going to live.
我觉得除非发生事故、受伤或疾病，大多数人对自己的寿命都有一种直觉。
And the reason I say this is, I remember when Steve Jobs was alive, because I was a postdoc in Palo Alto then and would see him occasionally around Palo Alto.
我这么说的原因是，我记得史蒂夫·乔布斯还活着的时候，因为当时我是帕洛阿尔托的博士后，偶尔会在帕洛阿尔托附近看到他。
And then read the Walter Isaacson biography about him, and it seemed like he had a very clear sense that someday he would die.
然后读了沃尔特·艾萨克森关于他的传记，他似乎非常清楚地意识到有一天他会死。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And he lived his life essentially according to that principle.
他基本上按照这个原则生活。
And in some sense may have justified being a little bit outrageous at times and a little bit high friction at times, through the sense of urgency.
从某种意义上说，通过紧迫感，有时可能有点令人愤慨，有时有点高摩擦，这可能是合理的。
Like it was important to get things done and get them done right, and to discard with a lot of popular convention.
就像把事情做好并把它们做好一样重要，并抛弃许多流行的惯例。
And he's kind of celebrated for it.
他因此而闻名。
I'm sure a few people dislike him, but I think most people celebrate him for it.
我确信有些人不喜欢他，但我认为大多数人都会因此而庆祝他。
I guess he had some sense of how long he was going to live.
我猜他知道自己还能活多久。
And then at one point, maybe that sense was inflated, and then boom.
然后在某一时刻，也许这种感觉被夸大了，然后繁荣起来。
Your dad died when you were very young.
你的父亲在你很小的时候就去世了。
Do you think that that gave you a perspective that, at any moment you could be four months out, you get the four months notice that you're going to be dead in four months?
你是否认为这给了你这样一种观点：在你还有四个月时间的任何时候，你都会收到四个月的通知，知道你将在四个月后死去？
Like did it-
就像这样做一样——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
shape your thinking about the future?
塑造你对未来的想法？
I mean, my dad's now, I'm not saying this as a -- No, it's interesting that there may have been a distinct advantage, of course, not to his dying, of course, but to the idea that it really creates this sense of urgency about not just the present, but the future.
我的意思是，我父亲现在，我并不是这么说的——不，有趣的是，当然，这可能有一个明显的优势，当然不是他的死，而是这样的想法，即它确实创造了这种不仅对现在而且对未来的紧迫感。
I remember we were very young.
我记得我们还很年轻。
You're like, "I want to have kids." You got going on a family like, I think first among all of us.
你会说，“我想要孩子。”我想，在我们所有人中，你首先要过一个像这样的家庭。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Really early.
真早。
And for those whose parents are still alive, and seem to be vigorous, maybe they feel less of a sense of urgency, right?
而对于那些父母还健在、看上去精力充沛的人来说，或许他们的紧迫感会少一些吧？
Which sounds wonderful.
听起来很棒。
Parents are alive, vigorous, okay, that's a blessing, but if it prevents you from living your life in a way that's really linked to your futures, that's not good.
父母还活着，精力充沛，好吧，这是一件幸事，但如果它阻止你以一种与你的未来真正相关的方式生活，那就不好了。
So do you think that we have an intuitive sense or an unconscious sense of how long we are likely to live, like a kind of a range?
那么你认为我们对自己可能活多久有一种直觉或无意识的感觉，就像一种范围一样？
Because Steve kind of argued that in some of his writings and speaking.
因为史蒂夫在他的一些著作和演讲中对此进行了争论。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
So look, let's talk about death.
那么，让我们来谈谈死亡吧。
So it's my contention that one of the things that keeps us from thinking about the far future and acting and behaving in a way that will alter it for the better, is the fact that to truly think and feel yourself into the far future means that you're going to have to think about a moment where you no longer exist.
因此，我的观点是，阻止我们思考遥远的未来并以一种将其变得更好的方式行动和行为的原因之一是，要真正思考和感受自己进入遥远的未来意味着你将不得不思考你不再存在的时刻。
In 1972, Ernest Becker wrote a book, which you'll know all about the book based on the title, called "The Denial of Death." He won the Pulitzer Prize for it.
1972年，欧内斯特·贝克尔（Ernest Becker）写了一本书，根据书名你就会知道这本书的全部内容，书名是《否认死亡》。他因此获得了普利策奖。
And Becker's contention was that we're the only species that at a very early age recognizes that we are only here for a short period of time, but more than anything, at one point in time, we will die.
贝克尔的论点是，我们是唯一一个在很小的时候就意识到我们只在这里存在很短一段时间的物种，但最重要的是，在某个时间点，我们会死亡。
We will cease to exist.
我们将不复存在。
And it was Becker's contention further, that everything, religion, culture, laptops, convertibles, everything that we create is our way of pushing back the very understanding that at one point we will cease to exist, and it horrifies us.
贝克尔进一步指出，一切，宗教、文化、笔记本电脑、敞篷车，我们创造的一切，都是我们推翻这样一种认识的方式：我们将在某一时刻不复存在，这让我们感到恐惧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I could not agree more, and I'm so, so grateful that you mentioned this book and this idea from Becker, because I would argue that every addiction, every single addiction, is based in a fear of death.
我完全同意，我非常非常感谢你提到这本书和贝克尔的这个想法，因为我认为每一种成瘾，每一种成瘾，都是基于对死亡的恐惧。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yes.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And an attempt to shorten the timescale of thinking, shorten the timescale of reward, shorten the timescale of everything to avoid that- Reality
并试图缩短思考的时间尺度，缩短奖励的时间尺度，缩短一切的时间尺度来避免这种情况——现实
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
And it's a reality that we learn of at a very early age intuitively because we see death around us.
这是我们在很小的时候就凭直觉了解到的现实，因为我们看到死亡就在我们周围。
More and more now in America, especially in the Western world, we push back from death.
现在在美国，尤其是在西方世界，我们越来越多地逃避死亡。
We do everything we can to avoid even old people, that we put them in old age homes.
我们尽一切努力避免老人，甚至将他们安置在养老院。
It used to be we lived together, right, in these multi-generational homes because older people, I would argue, remind us of death, or remind us of our own mortality.
我们曾经一起生活在这些多代同堂的家庭里，对吧，我认为，因为老年人让我们想起死亡，或者提醒我们自己的死亡。
And so until we can reconcile ourselves truly at an individual and maybe even at a collective level that we will cease to exist, it becomes extremely and is extremely difficult to future, to future properly, to future in the way that I'm advocating for, which is about being a great ancestor to future descendants and generations.
因此，除非我们能够在个人甚至集体层面上真正和解，否则我们将不复存在，未来，正确的未来，以我所倡导的方式实现未来，即成为未来子孙和几代人的伟大祖先，将变得极其困难。
And so in the work that I've done and in the show that I did, I did something-- People were very confused.
因此，在我所做的工作和我所做的展览中，我做了一些事情——人们非常困惑。
The show about the future, "Beef History of the Future," everyone's like, "Oh, you're going to go see all this cool technology," blah, blah, blah.
关于未来的节目“未来的牛肉历史”，每个人都会说，“哦，你要去看看所有这些很酷的技术，”等等，等等。
That's part of what we do.
这是我们工作的一部分。
But in the middle of the show, in episode four, I go to the high mountain desert, and we travel all over the world, but I go to the high mountain desert outside of Tucson, and I sit with the Lua Arthur, a death doula.
但在节目中间，第四集，我去了高山沙漠，我们环游世界，但我去了图森郊外的高山沙漠，我和死亡导乐卢阿·亚瑟坐在一起。
And what she does-- Most of the time when we think of a doula, we think of someone helping birth a child into the world.
她所做的事情——大多数时候，当我们想到导乐时，我们会想到帮助孩子出生的人。
What a death doula does is help us and help our loved ones exit this world, and she does something extraordinary.
死亡导乐所做的就是帮助我们和我们所爱的人离开这个世界，她做了一些非凡的事情。
Other cultures, some religions have this.
其他文化、某些宗教也有这一点。
She does something called a death meditation.
她做了一种叫做死亡冥想的事情。
And in the show, I do it, and then you can find these online, where you literally go through a guided meditation where you go from breathing to cessation of breath to literally just becoming one with the soil.
在节目中，我这样做了，然后你可以在网上找到这些，在那里你可以真正经历引导冥想，从呼吸到停止呼吸，再到真正与土壤合而为一。
It's a very intense thing to go through.
这是一件非常激烈的事情。
But I went through a version of the death meditation, as you've alluded to, when I was 18 years old.
但正如你所提到的，当我 18 岁时，我经历了一种死亡冥想。
Because I literally am the one who picked up the phone from the hospital at 2:00 in the morning.
因为我确实是凌晨 2:00 接到医院电话的人。
I was home from college, and I picked it up.
我大学毕业回家，我捡起了它。
I didn't even say hello.
我什至没有打招呼。
I picked up the phone, and I said, "This is his son," because who else was calling at 2:00 in the morning?
我拿起电话，说：“这是他的儿子，”因为凌晨 2:00 还有谁打来电话？
And it was the charge nurse, and she goes, "I want to bring you up to speed." He has really late stage of cancer.
那是护士长，她说：“我想让你了解最新情况。”他确实已经是癌症晚期了。
"Your father is not responding.
“你父亲没有回应。
We've been doing CPR.
我们一直在做心肺复苏。
There are no orders on what to do.
没有关于做什么的命令。
What do you want us to do?" So I made that call because it was obvious of where it was going.
你想让我们做什么？”所以我做出了这个决定，因为它的去向是显而易见的。
That was my way of confronting the salience of his mortality and my own mortality very abruptly.
这是我非常突然地面对他和我自己的死亡的显着性的方式。
Other people have their own early brushes with death.
其他人也早年与死亡擦肩而过。
I would argue that there is a certain level, and you touched on this, of emancipation when you've come close.
我认为，当你接近时，有一定程度的解放，你也谈到了这一点。
You don't want to wish it on anyone.
你不想对任何人抱有这样的希望。
But when you've come close to seeing what that looks and feels like, you all of a sudden become free from the burdens that society places on you in the Ernest Beckerian way of trying to push back mortality because you no longer give a shit, because you now know where it's all going to go, and you've seen it.
但当你接近看到它的外观和感觉时，你突然摆脱了社会强加给你的负担，就像欧内斯特·贝克尔式的试图推迟死亡的方式，因为你不再在意，因为你现在知道这一切将去往何处，而且你已经看到了。
As a society, in the West, in America, we do the exact opposite of that.
作为一个社会，在西方、在美国，我们的做法恰恰相反。
We inject things into our body, into our-- Everything we can to push it back because we want more quantity, but we don't think about the quality of the life that we want.
我们把东西注射到我们的身体里，注射到我们的——我们能做的一切来推迟它，因为我们想要更多的数量，但我们没有考虑我们想要的生活质量。
Now, that being said, you go to Japan, 90% of the companies that are over 1,000 years old on planet Earth right now are in Japan.
话虽如此，如果你去日本，地球上已有 1000 年以上历史的公司 90% 都在日本。
So part of it is our culture, part of it is different cultures, of how they think and respect elders and death, and they understand that we don't need to exist within this own lifespan bias, but we're actually part of a chain, a great chain of being those who came before, the pros and cons of that, the baggage of that, and that it's my role to decide what I want to keep and what I want to let go, and then what I want to transmit to the next generation.
所以，一部分是我们的文化，一部分是不同的文化，关于他们如何思考和尊重长辈和死亡，他们明白我们不需要存在于这种自己的寿命偏见中，但我们实际上是一条链条的一部分，一条巨大的链条，是前人的利弊，它的包袱，而我的角色是决定我想保留什么，我想放弃什么，然后我想把什么传给下一代。
That larger purpose, that larger telos is what's missing right now that I think we need back in Western society, not just so that we're grounded and happy, yes, and more content, but because we need to be able to do that as we confront what we do or do not do about climate change, what we do or do not do about synthetic biology, what we do or do not do about artificial intelligence.
我认为我们现在西方社会所缺少的就是更大的目标、更大的目的，不仅仅是为了让我们脚踏实地、快乐，是的，还有更多的内容，而是因为当我们面对我们在气候变化方面做什么或不做什么、我们对合成生物学做什么或不做什么、我们对人工智能做什么或不做什么时，我们需要能够做到这一点。
Because right now, especially on the last two, the technology is telling us what to do, and we don't need more smartness.
因为现在，尤其是在最后两个方面，技术正在告诉我们该做什么，而我们不需要更多的智能。
We need more wisdom.
我们需要更多的智慧。
And part of that wisdom is going to come about by us integrating the fact that you alluded to that at one point, we won't be here.
这种智慧的一部分将通过我们整合你曾经提到过的事实来实现，我们不会在这里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How do we do this?
我们该怎么做？
We can do it conceptually.
我们可以从概念上做到这一点。
You want to set the stage for that, whoever ends up in that empty frame, to have a better life, but it's hard to do.
你想为这个目标奠定基础，无论谁最终陷入那个空虚的框架，过上更好的生活，但这很难做到。
I think most people assume once it's lights out, who knows what happens next, but it's very hard to get them working for something that they don't have the ability to imagine and the people that they don't even know.
我想大多数人都会认为一旦熄灯，谁知道接下来会发生什么，但是让他们为他们没有能力想象的事情以及他们甚至不认识的人工作是非常困难的。
So, in other words, if we have a hard enough time imagining ourselves in the future-
所以，换句话说，如果我们很难想象未来的自己——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
you gave us a tool.
你给了我们一个工具。
Look at the aged version of yourself.
看看你自己的老年版本。
I love that, and if there's a website that will do that, we can put a link to it in-
我喜欢这一点，如果有一个网站可以做到这一点，我们可以将其链接放在-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
the show note captions.
节目注释标题。
Put a reminder that you will get older, you are getting older in this very moment, and try and live for the wellbeing of that person and the people around them, and look at it.
提醒你，你会变老，你就在这一刻变老，并努力为那个人和他们周围的人的福祉而生活，然后看看它。
So that creates a protocol for the self.
这样就为自我创建了一个协议。
How do we protocol the future setting, the futures approach, the verbing of the future or into the future for people around us and for people that we don't even really know and that we probably will never even meet?
我们如何为我们周围的人以及我们甚至不真正认识的人甚至我们可能永远不会见面的人约定未来的环境、未来的方法、未来的动词或未来？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Great question.
很好的问题。
Before we go into that, let's double-click on the individual incentive.
在我们讨论之前，让我们双击个人激励。
So we talked about the aging photo that you can do.
所以我们讨论了可以做的老化照片。
There's also another thing you can do that is very powerful, you touched on this earlier, which is writing a letter to your future self.
你还可以做另一件非常强大的事情，你之前提到过，那就是给未来的自己写一封信。
So you can do this at longpath.org.
因此，您可以在 longpath.org 上执行此操作。
You can find Future Me websites.
您可以找到 Future Me 网站。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
You have a-
你有一个-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
It's the number one tool that we use.
这是我们使用的第一工具。
So when I give talks, shockingly people have me come and talk to large groups.
因此，当我演讲时，令人震惊的是，人们让我来和一大群人演讲。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Not shockingly.
并不令人震惊。
Come on.
快点。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
What I say to them is, we'll go through a version of a different conversation like this And I'll say, "Now, what I want you to do is I want you to write a letter to your future self.
我对他们说的是，我们将进行一次不同的对话，就像这样，我会说，“现在，我想让你做的是，我想让你给未来的自己写一封信。
It's going to be delivered in five years from now." And I thought this was a common practice because I've been doing it from a very early age, but apparently it's not, to write a letter to your future self.
它将在五年后交付。”我认为这是一种常见的做法，因为我从很小的时候就开始这样做，但显然不是，给未来的自己写一封信。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, I can't-- Maybe once or twice I've done that.
是的，我不能——也许我曾经这样做过一两次。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
We did.
我们做到了。
And so I'll let you in on a little secret.
所以我要告诉你一个小秘密。
The change occurs not when you receive the letter, but when you actually write it.
变化不是在您收到这封信时发生的，而是在您实际写信时发生的。
Because you're actually thinking in a way about future you in a way that you normally don't, which is, who's going to receive this letter?
因为你实际上正在以一种你通常不会的方式思考未来的你，即谁会收到这封信？
Where do I want them to be?
我希望他们在哪里？
And what I find more often than not is people come up to me afterwards and they go, "To write, I'd never even thought, who do I want to be in five or 10 years?" What's that arc of what I want to connect to?
我经常发现人们事后来找我，他们说：“为了写作，我从来没有想过，五年或十年后我想成为谁？”我想要连接的弧线是什么？
What am I optimizing for?
我优化的目的是什么？
How do I make myself better in that way?
我该如何让自己变得更好？
So I want to make sure people understand that if you can't look at a photo of yourself aged, the very least, write a letter to your future self.
所以我想让人们明白，如果你不能看自己老年时的照片，至少，给未来的自己写一封信。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And what does the letter include?
这封信包括什么内容？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
"Dear Andy," "Dear Ari," and then whatever you want to put in.
“亲爱的安迪”、“亲爱的阿里”，然后是你想写的任何内容。
This is a one-to-one private conversation with your future self.
这是与未来的自己进行一对一的私人对话。
What are your hopes?
你的希望是什么？
What are your dreams?
你的梦想是什么？
What are your desires?
你的愿望是什么？
What are you afraid of?
你怕什么？
What do you want to see happen?
你想看到什么发生？
Because until you put out there, you can't be it if you can't see it.
因为在你把它放在那里之前，如果你看不到它，你就不可能成为它。
You have to actually visualize what that is and putting in not the negative, but what you really want to see aspirationally in that letter now starts creating a roadmap to getting there.
你必须真正想象那是什么，而不是加入负面的内容，但你真正想在这封信中看到的内容现在开始创建一个实现目标的路线图。
Because at the very bottom of the pyramid of what that roadmap is, is visualizing what that success looks like.
因为路线图金字塔的最底层是可视化成功的样子。
So in high school, I ran track.
所以在高中时，我参加了田径比赛。
And I started off by doing the 100, very individual sport.
我首先进行了 100 项非常个人化的运动。
And then eventually, as I went forward, I started running the 4 by 100, which is a relay race.
最后，当我继续前进时，我开始跑 4 乘 100 的接力赛。
And what I learned from my coach, Coach Ted Tillian, was that the 4 by 100, it's very important that all four runners run very fast, obviously.
我从我的教练 Ted Tillian 教练那里学到的是，在 4 x 100 跑比赛中，显然，所有四名跑步者都跑得很快非常重要。
But where that race is won or lost is in the transition zone, is in the passing of the baton.
但这场比赛的胜负在于过渡区，在于接力棒的传递。
And so when you write a letter to your future self, yes, you're connecting to your future, but what it's really also helping you do is realize that life is not a 100-yard dash.
因此，当你给未来的自己写一封信时，是的，你正在与你的未来建立联系，但它真正帮助你做的是认识到生活不是 100 码短跑。
It's actually a relay, and you're carrying a baton that was handed to you that you are now going to hand off, and I'm arguing that we right now, what I call we're in this intertidal moment between what was and what will be as a planetary civilization.
这实际上是一个接力赛，你手里拿着一根已经交给你的接力棒，你现在要把它交出去，我认为我们现在，我所说的我们正处于行星文明过去和未来之间的潮间带时刻。
We are in this transition zone, and what we do or do not do in this intertidal, in this transition zone with the baton that is Homo sapiens planetary flourishing culture is going to matter much more than we think it does in the current moment of social media pains.
我们正处于这个过渡区，在这个潮间带、在这个以智人行星繁荣文化为接力棒的过渡区，我们做什么或不做什么，在当前社交媒体的痛苦时刻，比我们想象的要重要得多。
So that's touching on the individual.
所以这涉及到个人。
Let's go up to that collective.
让我们去那个集体吧。
We have to decide as individuals, which some of these protocols will help you do, but we have to decide as a society that we want to actually tackle the question of to what end.
作为个人，我们必须决定其中一些协议将帮助你做什么，但作为一个社会，我们必须决定我们想要真正解决目标的问题。
Because in the erasure of God, in the erasure of the afterlife, in what was given to us by religion for thousands of years, some sort of guarantee that we would go on to heaven or hell.
因为在上帝的抹除中，在来世的抹除中，在几千年来宗教给予我们的某种保证中，我们将进入天堂或地狱。
Now that that is no longer there for a lot of people, for some it still is, and it still helps them make better decisions, I would argue in the day-to-day.
现在，对于很多人来说，这种情况已不再存在，但对于某些人来说，它仍然存在，而且它仍然可以帮助他们做出更好的决策，我会在日常中争论。
But for those who no longer have that, we have to decide that, and this can be from an egoic level, that the decisions that we make or do not make are either going to hook up in a great way future generations or not.
但对于那些不再拥有这一点的人来说，我们必须决定，这可以是从自我层面出发，我们做出或不做出的决定要么会以一种很好的方式与子孙后代联系在一起，要么不会。
We can be in those three categories.
我们可以属于这三类。
We can be one or two.
我们可以是一两个。
It doesn't matter.
没关系。
Who cares?
谁在乎？
I'm just going to YOLO.
我只是要去YOLO。
Or we can say we want to be part of a much larger project.
或者我们可以说我们想成为一个更大项目的一部分。
I talk about this a lot.
我对此谈了很多。
You can tell by my bias here, I don't say human, the Homo sapiens project, I think, like I said, we're at the bottom or the top of the third.
你可以从我这里的偏见看出，我不是说人类，智人项目，我认为，就像我说的，我们处于第三个的底部或顶部。
We have at least several hundred thousand more years to go.
我们至少还有几十万年的时间。
I am not as focused as to whether or not we leave Earth and we go to Mars and we become an interstellar species.
我不太关注我们是否离开地球去火星并成为星际物种。
I'm more focused on who we are.
我更关注我们是谁。
Because I've met, like you, I've met great hearts and minds, and I think that as a society, if we take care of everyone's basic needs, if we look at the best of humanity, the best of the humans that we've met, we can all rise to that level.
因为我和你们一样，遇到了伟大的心灵和思想，我认为作为一个社会，如果我们照顾每个人的基本需求，如果我们关注人性中最好的一面，我们所遇到的人类中最好的一面，我们都可以达到那个水平。
So instead of there being 100 great heroes in the world who are just so heartfelt, like the Dalai Lama or Mother Teresa or even Einstein, that that could actually be-
因此，世界上并不是有 100 位如此真诚的伟大英雄，比如达赖喇嘛或特蕾莎修女，甚至爱因斯坦，那实际上可能是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Are those three still intact, or they've been canceled yet?
这三个仍然完好无损，还是已经被取消了？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No, they're still with us.
不，他们仍然和我们在一起。
They're still with me.
他们还和我在一起。
But look, you asked one of the ways, how do you build transgenerational empathy with the past?
但是，你看，你问了一种方法，如何建立对过去的跨代同理心？
Read people's biographies, especially autobiographies, and you see they had it really tough, and they're not as perfect and as saintly as we think they are.
读人们的传记，尤其是自传，你会发现他们过得很艰难，他们并不像我们想象的那么完美和圣洁。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right, and the autobiographies are, of course, through their own lens.
是的，自传当然是通过他们自己的镜头。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Through their own lens.
通过他们自己的镜头。
Or you read their letters to their lovers or to their partners, and you're like, "God, this person's kind of an asshole." But at the end of the day, if we as a society want to find ourselves where more of us than less of us are at this heightened sense of intellectual and spiritual and emotional activation, that's not going to happen overnight.
或者当你读到他们写给情人或伴侣的信时，你会想，“天啊，这个人真是个混蛋。”但归根结底，如果我们作为一个社会想要发现我们中更多的人而不是更少的人处于这种高度的智力、精神和情感激活状态，这不会在一夜之间发生。
But if we say that's the goal that we want, we want to see people argue nine billion, seven billion, three billion, whatever the population of Homo sapiens is on planet Earth over the next several centuries or millennia.
但如果我们说这就是我们想要的目标，我们希望看到人们争论九十亿、七十亿、三十亿，无论未来几个世纪或几千年地球上的智人人口是多少。
If we want to see them flourishing in a way that's beyond what science fiction has ever even showed us.
如果我们想看到它们以一种超出科幻小说向我们展示的方式蓬勃发展。
If we make that decision that your life, what Andrew Huberman is doing in his work, what Ari Wald is doing is contributing to that, that gives you a sense of purpose that I think religion used to give us that we are now sorely lacking in a social media world of instant buying of crap that we don't need on the internet.
如果我们做出这样的决定，你的生活、安德鲁·胡伯曼在他的工作中所做的事情、阿里·沃尔德正在做的事情都对此做出了贡献，这会给你一种使命感，我认为宗教曾经给予我们这种使命感，我们现在非常缺乏一个可以在互联网上即时购买我们不需要的垃圾的社交媒体世界。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Or that we do need, and it's just a shorter timescale.
或者我们确实需要，而且只是时间较短。
Reward thing.
奖励的事情。
I don't believe that everything that happens on social media or that we buy or the pleasure that we get in our lifespan or day is bad.
我不认为社交媒体上发生的一切、我们购买的东西、我们一生中或一天中获得的快乐都是不好的。
I'm a capitalist, too.
我也是资本家。
What I think is that it is but one time window of operations.
我认为这只是一个操作窗口。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah, there's things-
是的，有一些事情——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And I just think it's good to have flexibility, right?
我只是认为具有灵活性很好，对吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Ah.
啊。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's sort of like in nutrition, they talk about metabolic flexibility.
这有点像营养学，他们谈论代谢灵活性。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
It's not about balance, it's about harmony.
这不是关于平衡，而是关于和谐。
How are we in harmony-
我们相处得怎么样——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Right
右
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
...
...
with the future?
与未来？
That is what I'm advocating for.
这就是我所提倡的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So, I love it, and I also know that a lot of people love it, even if they don't know they love it.
所以，我喜欢它，而且我也知道很多人喜欢它，即使他们不知道自己喜欢它。
Meaning, they perhaps haven't heard it framed the way that you describe it in your book, on your show, and today.
意思是，他们可能还没有听到你在书中、节目中和今天描述它的方式。
But I think a lot of people just are hoping that the super high achievers, right?
但我想很多人只是希望成为超级高成就者，对吧？
The Steve Jobs', the Elon's, the...
史蒂夫·乔布斯、埃隆、……
I don't know how people feel about politicians nowadays, but the people building technologies who seem to really care about the future.
我不知道现在人们对政客有何看法，但那些创造技术的人似乎真正关心未来。
Say what you want about Elon, but the guy is building stuff for the now and for the future.
不管你对埃隆有什么看法，但他正在为现在和未来打造东西。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
He's doing it.
他正在做。
That they will take care of it for next generations, right?
他们会为下一代照顾它，对吗？
Just like there were those, the Edisons and the Einsteins and the...
就像那些人一样，爱迪生、爱因斯坦和……
You have to be careful with names these days because almost everyone has something associated with them where you're going to trigger someone, but I'll just be relaxed about it and say, I would even say a Jane Goodall.
如今，你必须小心对待名字，因为几乎每个人都有与他们相关的东西，你会触发某人，但我对此会放松地说，我什至会说是简·古道尔。
The appreciation-
鉴赏——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of our relationship with animals and what they have to contribute to our own understanding of ourselves and our planet, that kind of thing.
我们与动物的关系，以及它们对我们对自己和地球的理解有何贡献，诸如此类。
So, those people ushered in the life that I've had, and I feel pretty great about that.
所以，那些人开启了我的生活，我对此感觉非常好。
So many people are probably saying, "Okay, makes sense for my family, but what do I have to contribute?" And you give the example of the fact that children are always observing, they carry forward the patterns and the traits, and certainly the responses that they observe in their parents.
很多人可能会说：“好吧，这对我的家庭来说很有意义，但是我必须做出什么贡献呢？”你举了一个例子，孩子们总是在观察，他们继承了模式和特征，当然还有他们在父母身上观察到的反应。
What's okay, what's not okay.
什么可以，什么不可以。
Starting in the '80s and in the '90s in this country, there were many more divorces and fractured-
从上世纪80年代和90年代开始，这个国家的离婚和破裂的情况越来越多——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
homes than there were previously.
比以前的房屋。
As a consequence, there's also been a fracturing of the kind of collective celebration of holidays.
结果，集体庆祝节日的方式也出现了破裂。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like the things that have anchored us through time-
就像那些随着时间的流逝而锚定我们的东西一样——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep
是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
are happening less frequently now.
现在发生得越来越少了。
Many of these have become commercialized, but that was always the case.
其中许多已经商业化，但情况始终如此。
People were getting Christmas presents one way or another.
人们以这样或那样的方式收到圣诞礼物。
So, do you think that the kind of fracturing of the family unit has contributed to some of this lack of, let's just call it longer path thinking and decision-making?
那么，您认为家庭单位的破裂是否导致了这种缺乏（让我们称之为更长的路径思考和决策）？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Look, I think it's the fracturing of the institutions that have been with us for the past several hundred years that is leading to an exponential rise in short-term behavior.
听着，我认为过去数百年伴随我们的制度的破裂导致了短期行为的指数级增长。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Okay, and so you mentioned religion.
好吧，你提到了宗教。
Maybe for a moment, we can just talk about universities.
也许我们可以暂时谈谈大学。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
These days, in part because of the distrust of science, and in part because of the distrust in government, and in part because of the distrust in traditional media, there's more and more ideas being kicked around that formal education is not as valuable as it used to be.
如今，部分是因为对科学的不信任，部分是因为对政府的不信任，部分是因为对传统媒体的不信任，越来越多的观点认为正规教育不再像以前那样有价值。
And people always cite the examples of the Mark Zuckerbergs and others who didn't finish college, but I would argue they got in and chose to leave.
人们总是引用马克·扎克伯格和其他没有完成大学学业的人的例子，但我认为他们进入并选择离开。
They took leave of absence.
他们请了假。
They didn't drop out, and they are rare individuals.
他们没有辍学，而且他们是罕见的个体。
Ryan Holiday said it best, I think, "If you are struggling in college, you are absolutely the kind of person that needs to stay in college."
我认为瑞安·霍勒迪（Ryan Holiday）说得最好，“如果你在大学里挣扎，那么你绝对是那种需要留在大学的人。”
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
With rare exception, unless there's a mental health issue or some physical health issue that needs to be tended to, because nowhere else in life, except perhaps the military, is there such a clear, designated set of steps that can take you from point A to point B with a credential that you can leverage in the real world for builds.
除了极少数例外，除非存在需要解决的心理健康问题或某些身体健康问题，因为除了军队之外，生活中没有其他地方有如此清晰、指定的一组步骤可以带您从 A 点到 B 点，并拥有可以在现实世界中利用的凭证进行构建。
And I completely agree with that.
我完全同意这一点。
But I would also argue that academic institutions and financial institutions have changed, political institutions have changed, and there's a deep distrust.
但我也认为学术机构和金融机构已经发生了变化，政治机构也发生了变化，而且存在着深深的不信任。
So we are having a harder time relying on them to make good decisions.
因此，我们很难依赖他们做出正确的决定。
You saw a lot of presidents of major universities fired recently, including Stanford.
最近你看到很多主要大学的校长被解雇，包括斯坦福大学。
There, I said it.
在那里，我说了。
It happened.
它发生了。
But also Harvard and other places-
还有哈佛和其他地方——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
for different reasons, and fired might be not the correct term.
由于不同的原因，解雇可能不是正确的术语。
They decided to resign.
他们决定辞职。
Whatever it was, they're no longer there.
不管是什么，他们已经不在那儿了。
They have new ones in.
他们有新的了。
And so there's a lot of distrust.
因此存在很多不信任。
So what can we rely on?
那么我们可以依靠什么呢？
If people are having less faith in religion, less faith in academic institutions, less faith in...
如果人们对宗教的信心减少，对学术机构的信心减少，对......的信心减少
What have we got?
我们有什么？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
We got really good in academia, at least on the social sciences side, of saying what was wrong with the systems, but not about what the systems we wanted them to be.
我们在学术界（至少在社会科学方面）非常擅长指出系统出了什么问题，但没有指出我们希望它们成为什么样的系统。
Because going back several hundred years ago, coming through the Enlightenment, especially, well, Renaissance into the Enlightenment, the Enlightenment gave us back this idea of a new meta-narrative based on rationality and logos, and the ability to kind of understand the world by breaking it down into its component parts.
因为追溯到几百年前，经历了启蒙运动，特别是文艺复兴进入启蒙运动，启蒙运动给了我们一种基于理性和标志的新元叙事的想法，以及通过将世界分解为各个组成部分来理解世界的能力。
That's science.
这就是科学。
Fast-forward several hundred years, and we're at the point now where we're really good at saying what doesn't work, but very, very bad about saying what does work and what we do want, because by saying what we do want means that we have to put forth some sort of meta-narrative, some thread, some official future that we can hang ourselves on.
快进几百年，我们现在正处于这样一个阶段：我们真的很擅长说出什么不起作用，但非常非常不擅长说出什么有效以及我们确实想要什么，因为通过说出我们真正想要的意味着我们必须提出某种元叙事，某种线索，某种我们可以依靠的官方未来。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And it tells us a lot about...
它告诉我们很多关于...
It's sort of like declaration of values.
这有点像价值观的宣言。
Which is scary for a lot of people, because it's one thing to say, "That doesn't work.
这对很多人来说都是可怕的，因为说“这行不通”是一回事。
That's no good.
那可不好。
That's no good." It's easy to be a critic.
那可不好。”成为批评家很容易。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
What you're describing has incredible parallels to health.
你所描述的情况与健康有着令人难以置信的相似之处。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yep.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
When I started the podcast, and even before when I was posting on social media, it was during the lockdowns, and it was like all this fear about everything, and I said, "Listen, I can't solve this larger issue related to What may or may not be going on, but what's obvious, people are stressed.
当我开始播客时，甚至在我在社交媒体上发帖之前，那是在封锁期间，就像对一切的恐惧一样，我说，“听着，我无法解决这个与可能发生或可能不会发生的事情有关的更大问题，但显而易见的是，人们都感到压力。
Stress is bad when it's chronic.
如果压力是慢性的，那就不好了。
People aren't sleeping, that's bad, especially when it's chronic.
人们不睡觉，这很糟糕，尤其是当它是慢性的时候。
And I've got some potential solutions, some tools, some zero-cost tools.
我有一些潜在的解决方案、一些工具、一些零成本工具。
So a lot of the backbone of the Huberman Lab podcast is about the things you do more so than the things you don't do.
因此，休伯曼实验室播客的大部分内容都是关于你经常做的事情而不是你不做的事情。
So what you're describing is essentially a field that consists of breaking things down but isn't offering solutions.
因此，您所描述的本质上是一个由分解事物组成但不提供解决方案的领域。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So it sounds very similar, and I think that people love potential solutions.
所以这听起来非常相似，而且我认为人们喜欢潜在的解决方案。
Even if one acknowledges, look, this might not solve every sleep issue, it very well could make positive ground towards some of it, or make it 50% better or 20% better.
即使人们承认，这可能无法解决所有睡眠问题，但它很可能为其中一些问题奠定积极的基础，或者使其改善 50% 或 20%。
In some cases, 100% better.
在某些情况下，100% 更好。
And of course, there are those for whom the tools don't work and they need to go to more extreme measures.
当然，有些人的工具不起作用，他们需要采取更极端的措施。
But I hear you saying that religion provided the solutions, not just pointing to problems.
但我听到你说宗教提供了解决方案，而不仅仅是指出问题。
People are not looking at that as much anymore.
人们不再那么关注这个了。
The big institutions like academic institutions, political institutions, let's face it, regardless of where one sits on one side of the aisle or the other, they're constantly fighting.
让我们面对现实吧，像学术机构、政治机构这样的大型机构，无论坐在过道的一侧还是另一侧，他们都在不断地斗争。
It's like 12-hour news cycle designed to just point fingers so that nobody actually has to say what they-
这就像 12 小时的新闻周期，只是为了互相指责而设计的，这样就没有人实际上必须说出他们-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah
是啊
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
really believe in a clear, tangible way.
真正相信一种清晰、切实的方式。
There are those that do that a bit more than others, but it's a mess.
有些人比其他人做得更多一些，但情况很混乱。
And then in terms of the family unit, this is what I was alluding to before, I feel like family units and values and structures are becoming more rare, at least in the traditional view of the family.
然后就家庭单位而言，这就是我之前提到的，我觉得家庭单位、价值观和结构变得越来越罕见，至少在传统的家庭观念中是这样。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Let's remember-
让我们记住——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Two parents, kids, et cetera.
两个父母，孩子等等。
Which is by no means a requirement to call something a family, but-
这绝不是称某物为家庭的必要条件，但是——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
But remember, but yeah
但请记住，但是是的
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
so are you saying that we all have to look as, it obviously starts with the individual, but that part of the work of being a human being now and going forward is to learn this futures approach?
那么你是说我们所有人都必须看起来，这显然是从个人开始的，但是现在和未来作为一个人的工作的一部分就是学习这种未来的方法？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
We have to be future conscious.
我们必须具有未来意识。
But again, this goes back to the transgenerational component, we have to critically assess where we came from and why we're at this point.
但同样，这又回到了跨代因素，我们必须批判性地评估我们从哪里来，以及为什么我们会走到这一步。
So let's talk about the nuclear family.
那么我们来谈谈核心家庭。
The idea that your children would be, quote-unquote, sleep trained and put into another room is relatively new.
对你的孩子进行睡眠训练并放入另一个房间的想法相对较新。
That's from the Victorian era, where you would put your kids in another room.
那是维多利亚时代的事，那时你会把孩子放在另一个房间里。
Because if you go back to most indigenous cultures, everyone slept together, and this happened for thousands of years, and the kids did-
因为如果你回到大多数土著文化，每个人都睡在一起，这种情况发生了数千年，孩子们就是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
In a big pile?
一大堆？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
Or in one big room or in a longhouse.
或者在一个大房间或长屋里。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like piglets?
像小猪一样？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Huh?
啊？
Like, well, I-
就像，好吧，我-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Like piglets
像小猪一样
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
...
...
don't know if they were like piglets, but they definitely all slept together.
不知道他们是不是像小猪一样，但他们肯定都睡在一起了。
And look, everyone can...
瞧，每个人都可以...
Look, I'm going to say this in a non-judgmental way, but it's going to sound very judgmental.
听着，我将以一种不带批判性的方式这么说，但这听起来会非常带有批判性。
I walk down the street sometimes, and I see kids in strollers being pushed by a seemingly healthy adult, right?
有时我走在街上，会看到推着婴儿车的孩子们被一个看似健康的成年人推着，对吗？
The kid is detached, and they're in this buggy, which comes from 17, 18th century England.
孩子们很独立，他们坐在这辆来自 17、18 世纪英国的马车里。
But if you look at most cultures around the world for thousands of years, what they did was they wore their babies for what we call the fourth trimester.
但如果你看看世界上数千年来的大多数文化，他们所做的就是在我们所说的第四个三个月里给婴儿穿上衣服。
Usually, the mother, so a bunch of patriarchal reasons for that.
通常，母亲，所以一堆重男轻女的原因。
But they literally would have a wrap on, and the baby would be wrapped and be held very close to them.
但他们实际上会裹上一条裹布，婴儿也会被包裹起来，离他们很近。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
This is the BABYBJÖRN thing?
这是 BABYBJÖRN 的事吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No, the BABYBJÖRN, you put the baby in front of you, but it's facing out.
不，BABYBJÖRN，你把婴儿放在你面前，但它面朝外。
When you really wrap them with a 20-yard wrap, it's skin to skin, right?
当你真的用20码的包裹物包裹它们时，是皮肤接触皮肤，对吧？
And look, there's a reason, like everything, there's a reason for everything.
看，这是有原因的，就像所有事情一样，所有事情都有原因。
For a human baby to come out of the mother as cognitively, intellectually, and physically ready as a baby chimpanzee would take 18 months of gestation, but we only do nine.
对于一个人类婴儿来说，要从母亲那里出来，在认知、智力和身体上都像小黑猩猩一样做好准备，需要 18 个月的妊娠期，但我们只需要 9 个月。
You know why, right?
你知道为什么，对吗？
We do it because our brains got so big because of all that protein, because Ari and Andy were hunting together using our prospection earlier on this story, that the baby has to come out at nine months because when we went from walking on all fours to being bipedal, the female pelvis closes, and there's only so much room for that baby to come out, so they come out early.
我们这样做是因为我们的大脑因为蛋白质而变得如此之大，因为阿里和安迪在这个故事的早些时候使用我们的前景一起狩猎，婴儿必须在九个月时出生，因为当我们从四足行走变成两足行走时，女性骨盆闭合，只有这么多的空间让婴儿出生，所以他们提前出生。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
If the brain had completed development internally, you'd have only stillborn.
如果大脑在内部完成发育，那么你只会死产。
Presumably, there was a branch of our earlier version of species that many mothers and babies died in childbirth.
据推测，我们早期版本的物种有一个分支，许多母亲和婴儿在分娩时死亡。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
100%.
100%。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Because of this, they were deselected, but that's not the proper term, but-
因此，他们被取消选择，但这不是正确的术语，但是——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
And so we found the optimal balance of nine months, roughly, right?
所以我们大致找到了九个月的最佳平衡，对吗？
But what that means is the baby has to be attached and close to the mother because it's totally helpless.
但这意味着婴儿必须依附并靠近母亲，因为它完全无助。
The point is that so much of what we do, we don't critically examine.
关键是我们所做的很多事情，我们都没有进行批判性的审视。
So you're talking about the breakdown of the family structure.
所以你说的是家庭结构的崩溃。
I would argue that breakdown isn't happening now.
我认为现在还没有发生崩溃。
That breakdown happened when we started to move from tribes and clans of raising children and move into a Victorian era mindset where we take the grandparent.
当我们开始从养育孩子的部落和氏族转向维多利亚时代的思维方式（我们以祖父母为父母）时，这种崩溃就发生了。
There's very few species on planet Earth that after the female goes through menopause, they still live.
地球上很少有物种在雌性绝经后仍然存活。
Basically, elephants, whales, and humans, right?
基本上就是大象、鲸鱼和人类，对吧？
Why?
为什么？
Because those are the species where you need others, elders, to help care for the young because of the aforementioned early birthing.
因为在这些物种中，由于上述的早产现象，你需要其他人、长辈来帮助照顾幼崽。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
But maybe it's also the propagation of story, as you said earlier, that can inform better decisions.
但正如您之前所说，也许故事的传播也可以为更好的决策提供信息。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
So we need new stories.
所以我们需要新的故事。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wisdom is like spoken cave paintings, basically.
基本上，智慧就像口头洞穴壁画。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
So those stories about what does it mean to have a proper family structure, whether it's a nuclear family of four or five or 20 of aunts and uncles and around.
这些故事讲述了拥有一个适当的家庭结构意味着什么，无论是四人、五人还是二十个阿姨、叔叔等的核心家庭。
Look, we did pretty well for the first couple of hundred thousand years, and then there was all these things that religion disrupted, right?
看，我们在最初的几十万年里做得很好，然后宗教就扰乱了所有这些事情，对吗？
Taking the children away from the mom.
把孩子从妈妈身边带走。
These all come from Puritanical beliefs.
这些都来自清教信仰。
Now we're at this point in this intertidal moment where we have to critically examine why is it we do what we do?
现在，我们正处于潮间带的时刻，我们必须批判性地审视我们为什么要做我们所做的事情？
What are the things that we want to keep, and what are the things we want to let go of, and how do we move forward?
什么是我们想要保留的东西，什么是我们想要放弃的东西，我们该如何前进？
And your question was, well, why do they want to do that?
你的问题是，他们为什么要这么做？
What's the incentive structure?
激励结构是怎样的？
And I'm arguing that the incentive structure for us to do that, because we actually care about where we take our species, where we move forward in the universe, given the fact that so much had to go right to get us to this point, right?
我认为我们这样做的激励结构，因为我们实际上关心我们将我们的物种带到哪里，我们在宇宙中前进，考虑到要让我们走到这一步，需要做很多事情，对吗？
I'm often asked this question God, how did we get so messed up?
经常有人问我这个问题，天哪，我们怎么搞得这么乱？
And what is it going to look like if-
如果——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Wait, are we so messed up?
等等，我们有这么乱吗？
Because you said we're about a third-
因为你说我们大约是三分之一-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No
否
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
of the way through our...
通过我们的...
Things are better than ever.
事情比以往任何时候都好。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Yeah.
是的。
So I get the question, like, how is it that we messed up?
所以我得到了一个问题，比如，我们怎么搞砸了？
And I always say we didn't mess up.
我总是说我们没有搞砸。
We're actually doing much better.
我们实际上做得更好。
Look, I walk into my daughter's room, and I look at their bookshelf, 15-year-old twin daughters, and every piece of fiction that takes place somewhat in the future is dystopian.
看，我走进我女儿的房间，我看着他们的书架，15岁的双胞胎女儿，每一篇发生在未来的小说都是反乌托邦的。
All the futures they know are "The Hunger Games," are "The Hundred," are "The Maze Runner," a world that has gone bad.
他们所知道的所有未来都是“饥饿游戏”，“百人”，“迷宫行者”，一个已经变坏的世界。
We talked about this earlier, there's a negativity bias.
我们之前谈到过这一点，存在消极偏见。
People are going to be attracted to reading about those things.
人们会被阅读这些内容所吸引。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Kids read that stuff now?
现在孩子们读那些东西吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Oh my, those are the best sellers.
天哪，这些是最畅销的。
The best sellers are all these dystopian.
最畅销的书都是反乌托邦的。
There's always a love interest and a teenage thing, but the backdrop is always dystopia.
总有爱情和青少年的事情，但背景总是反乌托邦。
And we're attracted to that in the same way we're attracted to a dumpster fire because we want to see the things.
我们被它所吸引，就像我们被垃圾箱火灾所吸引一样，因为我们想看到这些东西。
Dystopias can act as a-
反乌托邦可以充当——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
So sad
好伤心
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
...
...
dystopian stories can act as an early warning system.
反乌托邦故事可以充当预警系统。
If you keep doing this one thing that you're doing and extrapolate out a few decades, it'll look like this.
如果你继续做你正在做的一件事并推断几十年，它会看起来像这样。
What we're missing, and you just hit the nail on the head, are the stories about what if we get it right, what we call protopia.
我们缺少的是那些关于如果我们做对了会发生什么的故事，也就是我们所说的“原托邦”。
So utopia is this perfect world that always collapses on itself.
所以乌托邦就是这个总是会自行崩溃的完美世界。
It's really dystopia in a size.
这确实是一个规模上的反乌托邦。
Dystopia we talked about is a terrible world.
我们谈论的反乌托邦是一个可怕的世界。
A protopia, this idea put forth by Kevin Kelly, is a better tomorrow.
凯文·凯利提出的这个想法“原生托邦”是一个更美好的明天。
Not perfect, but one where we're making progress.
虽然并不完美，但我们正在取得进展。
So it's unbelievably important, and this is how I'm answering your question from a few minutes ago, that we start setting stories in protopias, in better tomorrows, in tomorrows where not everything is perfect, but where we have made significant progress.
因此，这是非常重要的，这就是我几分钟前回答你的问题的方式，我们开始在原型中，在更美好的明天，在不是一切都很完美，但我们已经取得重大进展的明天，设定故事。
Now, it won't be perfect.
现在，它不会是完美的。
There'll still be divorces and maybe murders and mayhem.
仍然会有离婚，也许还有谋杀和混乱。
But if we start backdroping our future visions in worlds that are better than they are today, I would argue that will be the stories that start acting as a cage to help pull us through this narrow moment of flux and chaos that is this intertitle.
但如果我们开始以比今天更好的世界为背景来描绘我们的未来愿景，我认为这些故事将开始充当笼子，帮助我们度过这个瞬息万变和混乱的狭窄时刻，这就是这个副标题。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
How do we do it at scale?
我们如何大规模地做到这一点？
Because I think a lot of people listening to this will say, "Okay, that all sounds great." I, for one, say the shift from the notion of building a better future through self-sacrifice, rather you can make it almost like pro-self and others endeavor, the way you've described it.
因为我认为很多人听完后会说：“好吧，听起来不错。”就我个人而言，我所说的是通过自我牺牲来建设更美好未来的观念的转变，相反，你可以让它几乎像亲自我和其他人的努力一样，就像你所描述的那样。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Empathy for self, empathy for others, getting some control over the contraction and dilation of your time window, making sure that you take good care of yourself, but you take care of the future generations as well, like for that empty frame, the now empty frame.
对自己的同理心，对他人的同理心，控制你的时间窗口的收缩和扩张，确保你照顾好自己，但你也照顾后代，就像那个空的框架，现在的空框架。
And then moving from dystopia to protopia, that all sounds great, but I think a lot of people might think, "Okay, well, at best, I could do that for myself and the people that I know.
然后从反乌托邦转向现实乌托邦，这一切听起来都很棒，但我想很多人可能会想，“好吧，好吧，充其量，我可以为自己和我认识的人做到这一点。
It's going to be hard to do that for the greater good." And you could say, well, that does contribute to the greater good.
为了更大的利益而做到这一点是很困难的。”你可以说，好吧，这确实有助于实现更大的利益。
This is actually very similar to what we tell graduate students-
这其实和我们告诉研究生的很相似——
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm
嗯嗯
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
...
...
when they get their first round of data, and you go, okay, well, oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes you say, "Oh, the data are cool.
当他们获得第一轮数据时，你会说，好吧，好吧，经常，并非总是，但你常常会说，“哦，数据很酷。
If it continues this way, that'd be an interesting story." And they get the sense, and you already have the sense because you have the experience to know the best case scenario is a nice, solid paper.
如果继续这样下去，那将是一个有趣的故事。”他们明白了，你也已经明白了，因为你有经验，知道最好的案例场景是一篇漂亮、扎实的论文。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
That your three reviewers and maybe 20 other people will read, and you're going to spend the next five years of your life on this thing.
你的三位审稿人和也许还有其他 20 个人会阅读，并且你将在这件事上花费你生命中的未来五年。
Maybe three, but probably five years of your life, and you'll get your PhD.
也许你一生中三年，但也可能五年，你就会获得博士学位。
And there's always this question, do you ditch that project and go for something else, or do you stay with that project?
总是有这样的问题，你是放弃那个项目并去做其他事情，还是继续那个项目？
In other words, what you're saying is you get to put your brick on the wall, but it's a brick.
换句话说，你所说的是你可以把砖块放在墙上，但它只是一块砖头。
Whereas, there are other projects, and you go, "Whoa, that's one wing of the cathedral." And it's a rare instance where that happens.
然而，还有其他项目，你会说，“哇，那是大教堂的一侧。”这种情况很少见。
And a lot of it's luck, and it doesn't always work out anyway.
这很大程度上取决于运气，而且并不总是能成功。
But what we're saying here is how hard people are willing to work is often related to what they feel the potential payoff will be.
但我们在这里所说的是，人们愿意工作的努力程度往往与他们认为潜在的回报有关。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If they can sense the payoff, and by the way, I love the protocols that you offer, the empty frame, the journaling to future self, this notion of time capsuling your present thinking into the future, the aging of self.
如果他们能感觉到回报，顺便说一句，我喜欢你提供的协议，空的框架，对未来的自己的日记，这种时间概念将你当前的想法封装到未来，自我的衰老。
These are very actionable things.
这些都是非常可操作的事情。
I plan to do them, and I think they're very valuable.
我打算做这些，我认为它们非常有价值。
But if I understand correctly, you are interested in creating a movement of sorts, where many, if not everybody, is thinking this way.
但如果我理解正确的话，你有兴趣发起一场运动，很多人（如果不是所有人）都这么想。
Because the other model is, okay, well, the Elons will take care of it for us.
因为另一个模型是，好吧，好吧，埃隆夫妇会为我们处理它。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Or the system's so broken, there's nothing I can do.
或者说系统已经崩溃了，我无能为力。
I'm just trying to make ends meet.
我只是想维持收支平衡。
So how does one create a reward system or a social media platform?
那么如何创建奖励系统或社交媒体平台呢？
How does one join up with other people who are trying to do this?
如何与其他尝试这样做的人联合起来？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
So the question you're getting at is, in a lot of the work that I've read and listened to on this podcast, oftentimes it's about, obviously, how do we optimize the self?
所以你要问的问题是，在我在这个播客上读过和听过的很多作品中，显然，通常都是关于我们如何优化自我？
And I mean that in a good way, not in a selfish way.
我的意思是，以一种好的方式，而不是以一种自私的方式。
How do we make ourselves better?
我们如何让自己变得更好？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
That's where you have to start.
这就是你必须开始的地方。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah.
是的。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
I'm advocating for how do we optimize society?
我主张我们如何优化社会？
How do we optimize civilization?
我们如何优化文明？
And this is a clear case where, unlike when we think of scale being make more widgets at a cheaper price, this is really a one plus one plus one plus one ad infinitum.
这是一个明显的例子，与我们认为规模化是以更便宜的价格生产更多小部件不同，这实际上是一加一加一加一的无限。
If we think about, just for example, how many listeners and viewers there are of this podcast, millions.
例如，如果我们考虑一下这个播客有多少听众和观众，数以百万计。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Right?
对吗？
And how many people they interact with within their closest sphere, and you go out Right.
他们在最接近的范围内与多少人互动，然后你就出去了。
So right now, your listeners have the potential to live and act Longpathian in this way, where they're doing something for a greater-- They're thinking about their purpose in the world as nested within the larger purpose of our species to allow for more mass flourishing in the future for generations to come.
所以现在，你的听众有潜力以这种方式生活和表现出朗帕斯式的行为，他们正在为更伟大的目标做一些事情——他们正在思考他们在世界上的目的是嵌套在我们物种的更大目标中的，以允许子孙后代在未来实现更多的大规模繁荣。
If you think about your listeners and how they interact and how they model behavior, and their spheres, you're at 30, 40, 50 million people.
如果你考虑一下你的听众，以及他们如何互动、如何塑造行为以及他们的领域，你会发现你有 30、40、5000 万人。
Right?
正确的？
That's a very, very large number.
这是一个非常非常大的数字。
And what we know about social and emotional contagion is that these things are contagious.
我们对社会和情感传染的了解是，这些东西是具有传染性的。
They are memes.
他们是模因。
This is Susan Blackmore's work.
这是苏珊·布莱克莫尔的作品。
That's how it scales.
这就是它的扩展方式。
It actually is one of those things where you're not going to just add powder, and it all of a sudden will create this optimal future for everyone because only one person who does it.
它实际上是那些你不会仅仅添加粉末的事情之一，它会突然为每个人创造一个最佳的未来，因为只有一个人这样做。
We all have a role to play in it.
我们每个人都可以在其中发挥作用。
It's like literally, what I would want is anyone who's listening or watching this, when they're done doing it, to take a few minutes and think about, what kind of futures do I want for myself, for my family, for the generations to come?
就像字面意思一样，我希望任何正在听或看这件事的人，当他们完成这件事时，花几分钟思考一下，我想要为自己、为我的家人、为子孙后代拥有什么样的未来？
And what is my role in that great play?
我在这部伟大的戏剧中扮演什么角色？
What do I have to do?
我必须做什么？
And yes, you need the protocols to kind of bring you back into there.
是的，你需要一些协议来带你回到那里。
Right?
正确的？
For me, it's easy because I wrote the book, I did the show.
对我来说，这很容易，因为我写了这本书，我做了这个节目。
I can just think Longpath, I can do it.
我只要想到Longpath，我就能做到。
For others, this is going to be the first time they're thinking about this, or maybe they've been thinking about it for years.
对于其他人来说，这将是他们第一次考虑这个问题，或者可能他们已经考虑这个问题很多年了。
Even in the smallest interactions, they start doing it.
即使在最小的互动中，他们也会开始这样做。
And this gets into kind of the Santa Fe Institute and complexity theory.
这涉及到圣达菲研究所和复杂性理论。
This stuff starts to actually reverberate.
这些东西开始真正产生回响。
That's how we do it.
我们就是这样做的。
We don't need a march for long-termism.
我们不需要为长期主义而游行。
Right?
正确的？
We don't need bumper stickers.
我们不需要保险杠贴纸。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you.
谢谢你。
There will be no bumper stickers on my 4Runner.
我的 4Runner 上不会有保险杠贴纸。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
There will be no bumper stickers.
不会有保险杠贴纸。
It's about placing our very essence and our actions within the realm of possibility for the futures that we want and our role in that, and then the purpose.
这是关于将我们的本质和我们的行动置于我们想要的未来的可能性范围内，以及我们在其中的角色，然后是目的。
So I don't care if you're a barista, if you're a surfing instructor, if you're a brilliant podcaster.
所以我不在乎你是否是一名咖啡师，是否是一名冲浪教练，是否是一名出色的播客。
Whatever it is that you do, do it with the intention and recognition that you are modeling a way of being in the world that has ramifications and reverberations beyond this current moment.
无论你做什么，都要怀着这样的意图并认识到你正在塑造一种在世界上存在的方式，这种方式会产生超越当前时刻的影响和反响。
And you said earlier, "Well, who knows if anyone will listen to your podcast?" What I can tell you with certainty, because I'm sure it's probably already happened, is a large language model, an LLM, something we call AI right now, is already or it will at some point ingest the Huberman Lab podcast.
你之前说过，“好吧，谁知道是否有人会听你的播客？”我可以肯定地告诉你，因为我确信这可能已经发生了，一个大型语言模型，一个法学硕士，我们现在称之为人工智能的东西，已经或者在某个时候会吸收 Huberman 实验室的播客。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, we have one.
是的，我们有一个。
We have a Huberman Lab AI.
我们有一个 Huberman 实验室人工智能。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
There you go.
就这样吧。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
We haven't advertised it very heavily, but it's there.
我们没有大力宣传它，但它就在那里。
You can ask me questions and-
你可以问我问题并且-
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
So it's-
所以这是——
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
It's pretty good.
非常好。
It sounds a bit like me.
听起来有点像我。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Sounds like
听起来像
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
The jokes are dry.
笑话很干。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
They're dry and-
它们是干的并且-
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
And not funny.
而且不好笑。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
I was going to say mostly funny, but you'll get it.
我本来想说的是很有趣，但你会明白的。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Yeah, mostly not funny.
是的，大部分都不好笑。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
I'll give you some more.
我再给你一些。
But eventually, that will percolate out.
但最终，这会渗透出去。
So at the speed of things are going, three or four years from now, this very conversation, what I learned in school, discourse ethics, how we talk to one another.
因此，按照事情发展的速度，三四年后，这次谈话，我在学校学到的东西，话语道德，我们如何彼此交谈。
That is teaching these machines how to think and act and who and what we are and how to become the best of or the worst of ourselves.
那就是教导这些机器如何思考和行动，我们是谁，我们是什么，以及如何成为最好的自己或最坏的自己。
What we put out there, the kind of the public-facing content, is going to become what these machines think of as how they should be, and we're modeling it for them.
我们发布的内容，即面向公众的内容，将成为这些机器认为应有的样子，我们正在为它们建模。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
And going back to the higher education example for a second, I think higher education, like many institutions, as AI, what we call that, fully comes online, is going to radically, radically change.
再回到高等教育的例子，我认为高等教育，就像许多机构一样，随着人工智能，我们所说的，完全在线化，将会发生根本性的改变。
And it will be a Cambridge or an Oxford tutor in everyone's ear, and higher education, this idea that you kind of come together to receive information will start to dissipate from higher education.
每个人都会听到剑桥或牛津的导师，而高等教育，这种大家聚集在一起接收信息的想法将开始从高等教育中消失。
But what higher education will start to do, and I think will need to focus on, is not just the intellectual and the cognitive, but also the psychological and the emotional core of who you are and helping you develop that.
但高等教育将开始做的，我认为需要关注的，不仅仅是智力和认知，还有你是谁的心理和情感核心，并帮助你发展它。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Well, amen to that.
好吧，阿门。
There was a former guest on this podcast, or there was a guest on this podcast previously, Dr. Wendy Suzuki, professor at NYU.
这个播客有一位前任嘉宾，或者说以前有一位嘉宾，纽约大学教授温迪·铃木博士。
I think now she's the Dean of Arts and Sciences, I think is the correct title.
我想她现在是文理学院院长，我认为这是正确的头衔。
And she's trying to bring some of her laboratory's data on the value of even very brief meditations to stress management in college.
她正试图将实验室的一些数据运用到大学压力管理中，即使是非常短暂的冥想也有其价值。
First, to help students manage the stress that is college and being in your early 20s.
首先，帮助学生应对大学时期和 20 岁出头时的压力。
But I think there's a larger theme there, which is to try and teach emotional development, to teach self-regulation, because many people don't get that.
但我认为那里有一个更大的主题，那就是尝试教授情感发展，教授自我调节，因为很多人不明白这一点。
Or they get it, but then there are big gaps.
或者他们明白了，但还有很大的差距。
And I love the way that you're describing this.
我喜欢你描述这一点的方式。
Basically, it's a lens, if I may.
基本上，如果可以的话，它是一个镜头。
It's a lens into human experience that's very dynamic, and is really in concert with the fact that the human brain has the capacity for this dynamic representation of time.
这是一个非常动态的人类体验的镜头，并且与人类大脑具有动态表示时间的能力这一事实相一致。
Like solve for the now.
就像现在解决一样。
There will be parts of your day, no doubt today, where you just have to solve for the now.
毫无疑问，今天，你一天中的某些部分，你只需要解决当下的问题。
You're not thinking about the greater good.
你没有考虑更大的利益。
And then the ability to dilate your consciousness, in the temporal sense, and to solve for things that are more long-term, make these investments towards the future.
然后，在时间意义上扩展你的意识并解决更长期的问题的能力，使这些投资面向未来。
I wonder, though, how can we incentivize people to be good, to do good, and how can we incentivize people to do this on a backdrop of a lot of short-term carrots and short-term horizons?
但我想知道，在大量短期胡萝卜和短期视野的背景下，我们如何才能激励人们向善、行善？
I think you've given us some answers, and they're very powerful ones, such as the aging self-image exercise, journaling into the future, writing to future self, the empty frame exercise, linking up with our ancestors and thinking about where we're at now and where we want to go.
我想你已经给了我们一些答案，而且它们都是非常有力的答案，比如衰老的自我形象练习、写未来的日记、写给未来的自己、空框练习、与我们的祖先联系起来，思考我们现在在哪里以及我们想去哪里。
Is there anything else that You want to add, meaning is there anything that we should all be doing?
您还有什么要补充的吗？也就是说，有什么是我们都应该做的吗？
Should we all be reading more biography?
我们都应该读更多的传记吗？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Mm.
嗯。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
If I look back through history, it's both dark and light.
回顾历史，既有黑暗，也有光明。
Is there anything else that you really encourage people to do to be the best version of themselves for this life and the ones that come next?
您是否真正鼓励人们做任何其他事情，以便在今生和来世成为最好的自己？
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
I've touched on this.
我已经触及过这一点。
We need to examine in ourselves why is it we do and are the way that we are.
我们需要审视自己，为什么我们会这样做，为什么我们会变成这样。
Right?
正确的？
Do you know why in this country we vote on Tuesday?
你知道为什么在这个国家我们要在星期二投票吗？
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I don't have any idea.
我不知道。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
So most advanced democracies vote over the weekend or a couple of weekends.
因此，大多数先进民主国家都会在周末或几个周末进行投票。
In America, we vote on Tuesday because that was the time that was necessary for someone to leave church on Sunday, ride on horseback into the big city, vote on Tuesday, and ride back before market day on Wednesday.
在美国，我们在周二投票，因为这是人们必须在周日离开教堂，骑马进入大城市，周二投票，并在周三集市日之前骑马返回的必要时间。
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I'm so glad you're going to tell me it's not because then people can still watch Monday Night Football.
我很高兴你要告诉我这不是因为人们仍然可以观看周一橄榄球之夜。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
No, this is long before Monday Night Football.
不，这已经是周一橄榄球之夜之前很久了。
And so I think why we vote on Tuesday, it's a metaphor for so much of who we are and have become as individuals and as a society.
所以我认为我们为什么要在周二投票，这是对我们作为个人和社会的身份和变化的隐喻。
I'm a big fan of cognitive behavioral therapy, of CBT, I think partially because what it does is it has us look at what are those negative stories that we tell ourselves.
我是认知行为疗法、CBT 的忠实粉丝，我认为部分原因是它的作用是让我们看看我们告诉自己的那些负面故事是什么。
But then, because you can't just say, "Stop doing something," you can't just extinguish a behavior, you have to add and put in a positive story.
但是，因为你不能只是说，“停止做某事”，你不能只是消除一种行为，你必须添加并放入一个积极的故事。
What I've tried to do with some of our time here today, and what I want people to partially take away, more than partially, to really take away and bring in, is examine the why Tuesdays.
我今天试图利用我们今天在这里的一些时间来做的事情，以及我希望人们部分拿走，而不是部分拿走，真正拿走并带入的，是检查星期二的原因。
What are those stories that you've inherited?
你继承的那些故事是什么？
Some of them are going to be macro social.
其中一些将是宏观社会的。
Like you are defined by the society, by what you own, by the badge on your car that says how successful you are.
就像你是由社会、你拥有的东西、你汽车上表明你有多成功的徽章来定义的一样。
That's a story.
这是一个故事。
That's a story that's been fed to us.
这是一个被灌输给我们的故事。
There are other stories that are very personal.
还有其他一些非常个人化的故事。
These are stories that can sometimes be very private and go back generations within a family.
这些故事有时可能非常私密，可以追溯到一个家庭的几代人。
And then to understand, some of those stories serve us, some of those stories don't serve us.
然后要明白，有些故事对我们有用，有些故事对我们没有帮助。
But after discerning that, we then have to write a new story.
但在认识到这一点之后，我们就必须写一个新的故事。
We have to write a new story for ourself.
我们必须为自己写一个新的故事。
Who am I?
我是谁？
Why am I here?
我为什么在这里？
Isn't going to be answered by a religion or a god or a book or a podcast or a futurist.
宗教、神、书籍、播客或未来学家都无法回答这个问题。
It's going to be answered by looking and searching inside of yourself about how it is you got here, what really matters, and where you want to contribute and help move us forward as a species on spaceship Earth.
这个问题的答案将通过审视和搜索你自己的内心，了解你是如何来到这里的，什么是真正重要的，以及你想在哪些方面做出贡献并帮助推动我们作为地球宇宙飞船上的一个物种向前发展。
Not as a passenger, but as crew on this vessel, and how we're going to move forward.
不是作为乘客，而是作为这艘船上的船员，以及我们将如何前进。
So the stories have served us well and have not served us well.
所以这些故事对我们有好处，也有没有对我们有好处。
And to move forward, it's okay now to say, "I'm going to write these stories that serve me.
为了继续前进，现在可以说：“我要写这些对我有用的故事。
I'm going to see the future, not as a now, not as this thing that I'm heading towards or that's going to tumble over me, but that I'm going to create." And those stories may be very intrapersonal, they may be interpersonal, they may be political, they may be business, they may be what you buy, what you consume.
我将看到未来，不是现在，也不是我正在走向的事物或将要从我身上翻倒的事物，而是我将要创造的未来。”这些故事可能是非常个人化的，它们可能是人际的，它们可能是政治的，它们可能是商业的，它们可能是你买的东西，你消费的东西。
But you have to have agency.
但你必须有代理权。
You have to instill a sense of hope into your own life and a sense of awe and a sense of really just empathy for who you are and where we are if we want to collectively move forward into the futures that will allow our descendants to look back on us and say, "They were great ancestors."
如果我们想共同迈向未来，让我们的子孙后代在回顾我们时说：“他们是伟大的祖先。”
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
I love it, and I also just want to highlight the importance of record keeping, of putting things down on paper or maybe in electronic form, creating time capsules for the future generations.
我喜欢它，我也只是想强调记录保存的重要性，将事情记录在纸上或以电子形式，为子孙后代创造时间胶囊。
Because I think a lot of what people probably are thinking or worried about a little bit is, like, "Okay, I can do all this stuff to try and make things better, and even give up the desire for any kind of credit," but not feeling like it will be of any significance.
因为我认为很多人可能会想到或担心的是，“好吧，我可以做所有这些事情来尝试让事情变得更好，甚至放弃对任何信用的渴望”，但感觉这没有任何意义。
But what I've learned from you today is that it starts with the self and then it radiates out to the people we know and that maybe we cohabitate with.
但今天我从你那里学到的是，它从自我开始，然后辐射到我们认识的人，甚至可能与我们同居的人。
But even if we don't cohabitate with anybody, it radiates out from us, and that it is important to get a sort of time capsule going so that people can feel like they have some significance in the future that they may not ever have immediate experience of, but to really send those ripples forward and get the sense that those ripples are moving forward.
但即使我们不与任何人同居，它也会从我们身上散发出来，重要的是要让一种时间胶囊运转起来，这样人们就能感觉到他们在未来具有某种他们可能从未立即体验过的意义，但要真正将这些涟漪向前发送，并感觉到这些涟漪正在向前发展。
So for that reason, and especially given the nature of this podcast, for the reason that you gave these very concrete protocols, if you will, that we've highlighted in the timestamps, of course, as tools, as protocols, I really want to thank you because oftentimes discussions about past, present, and future can get a bit abstract and a bit vague for people, and you've done us all a great service by making them very concrete and actionable.
因此，出于这个原因，特别是考虑到这个播客的性质，因为你给出了这些非常具体的协议，如果你愿意的话，我们在时间戳中强调了这些协议，当然，作为工具，作为协议，我真的很想感谢你，因为关于过去、现在和未来的讨论常常对人们来说有点抽象和有点模糊，而你通过使它们变得非常具体和可操作，为我们所有人提供了很好的服务。
That's so much of what this podcast is about.
这就是这个播客的主要内容。
It's one part information, one part option for action.
它一部分是信息，一部分是行动选项。
Right?
正确的？
We don't tell people what to do, but we give them the option for action.
我们不告诉人们该做什么，但我们给他们采取行动的选择。
I'm certainly going to adopt some of these protocols.
我当然会采用其中一些协议。
And also for taking the time to come to talk with us today, share your wisdom, and share what you're doing in many ways.
也感谢您今天抽出时间来与我们交谈，分享您的智慧，并以多种方式分享您正在做的事情。
Well, it is not in many ways, it is absolutely part of what you're describing, which is putting your best self toward how things can be better now and in the future.
嗯，在很多方面都不是，它绝对是你所描述的一部分，即尽最大努力让现在和未来的事情变得更好。
It's also a great pleasure to sit down with somebody I've known for so many years and learn from you.
我也很高兴能和我认识多年的人坐下来向你学习。
So it's a real honor and a privilege, and I know everyone else listening to and watching this feels the same way.
所以这是一种真正的荣幸和特权，我知道其他听到和看到这一点的人也有同样的感觉。
So thank you so much.
非常感谢。
Ari Wallach:
阿里·瓦拉赫：
Thank you for having me
谢谢你有我
Andrew Huberman:
安德鲁·休伯曼：
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Ari Wallach.
感谢您参加今天与 Ari Wallach 的讨论。
To find links to his book, to his television show, and other resources related to Longpath, please see the show note captions.
要查找他的书、电视节目以及与 Longpath 相关的其他资源的链接，请参阅节目注释标题。
If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
如果您正在学习和/或喜欢此播客，请订阅我们的 YouTube 频道。
That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.
这是支持我们的绝佳零成本方式。
In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on both Spotify and Apple, and on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.
另外，请在 Spotify 和 Apple 上订阅该播客，在 Spotify 和 Apple 上，您都可以给我们留下五星级的评论。
Please check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.
请查看今天节目开头和整个节目中提到的赞助商。
That's the best way to support this podcast.
这是支持这个播客的最佳方式。
If you have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube.
如果您对我有疑问，或者对播客或嘉宾有意见，或者您希望我为 Huberman Lab 播客考虑的主题，请将这些意见放入 YouTube 的评论部分。
I do read all the comments.
我确实阅读了所有评论。
For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out.
对于那些还没有听说过的人，我即将出版一本新书。
It's my very first book.
这是我的第一本书。
It's entitled "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." This is a book that I've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience, and it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation, and of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.
它的标题是“协议：人体操作手册”。这是我花了五年多时间编写的一本书，它基于 30 多年的研究和经验，涵盖了从睡眠到运动到压力控制的各个方面的方案，以及与注意力和动机相关的方案，当然，我还为所包含的方案提供了科学依据。
The book is now available by presale at protocolsbook.com.
该书现已在protocolbook.com 上预售。
There you can find links to various vendors.
在那里您可以找到各个供应商的链接。
You can pick the one that you like best.
您可以选择您最喜欢的一个。
Again, the book is called "Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body." If you're not already following me on social media, I am Huberman Lab on all social media platforms.
同样，这本书的名字是“协议：人体操作手册”。如果您还没有在社交媒体上关注我，我是所有社交媒体平台上的 Huberman Lab。
So that's Instagram, X, formerly known as Twitter, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
这就是 Instagram、X，以前称为 Twitter、Threads、Facebook 和 LinkedIn。
And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the content on the Huberman Lab podcast.
在所有这些平台上，我讨论科学和与科学相关的工具，其中一些与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容重叠，但其中大部分与胡伯曼实验室播客的内容不同。
Again, that's Huberman Lab on all social media channels.
同样，这是所有社交媒体渠道上的 Huberman Lab。
If you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, our Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost monthly newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as protocols in the form of brief one to three-page PDFs.
如果您还没有订阅我们的神经网络新闻通讯，我们的神经网络新闻通讯是一份零成本的每月新闻通讯，其中包括播客摘要以及简短的一到三页 PDF 形式的协议。
Those protocol PDFs are on things like neuroplasticity and learning, optimizing dopamine, improving your sleep, deliberate cold exposure, deliberate heat exposure.
这些 PDF 协议涉及神经可塑性和学习、优化多巴胺、改善睡眠、刻意冷暴露、刻意热暴露等内容。
We have a foundational fitness protocol that describes a template routine that includes cardiovascular training and resistance training with sets and reps, all backed by science, and all of which, again, is completely zero cost.
我们有一个基本的健身协议，描述了一个模板程序，其中包括心血管训练和阻力训练（包括组数和次数），所有这些都有科学支持，而且所有这些都是完全零成本的。
To subscribe, simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the Menu tab up in the upper right corner, scroll down to Newsletter, and provide your email, and I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
要订阅，只需访问 hubermanlab.com，转到右上角的“菜单”选项卡，向下滚动到新闻通讯，然后提供您的电子邮件，我要强调的是，我们不会与任何人分享您的电子邮件。
Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Ari Wallach.
再次感谢您参加今天与 Ari Wallach 的讨论。
And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
最后但并非最不重要的一点是，感谢您对科学的兴趣。