AMA #4: Maintain Motivation, Improve REM Sleep, Set Goals, Manage Anxiety & More

Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

欢迎来到休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学和基于科学的日常生活工具。

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

Today is an Ask Me Anything, or AMA episode, which is part of our premium subscriber content.

今天是“有事问我”（Ask Me Anything）或 AMA 节目，它是我们优质订阅者内容的一部分。

Our premium channel was launched in order to raise support for the standard Huberman Lab podcast channel, which still comes out once a week every Monday and, of course, is zero cost to consumer.

我们推出高级频道是为了提高对标准 Huberman Lab 播客频道的支持，该频道仍然每周一播出一次，当然，对消费者来说是零成本。

The premium channel is also designed to support exciting research being done at major universities like Stanford and elsewhere, research that's done on humans that should lead to protocols for mental health, physical health, and performance in the near future.

该付费频道还旨在支持斯坦福大学和其他地方的主要大学正在进行的令人兴奋的研究，这些研究是针对人类进行的，这些研究应该会在不久的将来制定有关心理健康、身体健康和表现的协议。

If you'd like to check out the premium channel subscription model, you can go to hubermanlab.com/premium, and there you can subscribe for $10 a month or $100 a year.

如果您想查看高级频道订阅模式，可以访问 hubermanlab.com/premium，在那里您可以以每月 10 美元或每年 100 美元的价格进行订阅。

We also have a lifetime subscriber option.

我们还有终身订阅选项。

For those of you that are already Huberman Lab podcast premium subscribers and you're watching and/or hearing this, please go to hubermanlab.com/premium and download the premium podcast feed.

对于那些已经是 Huberman Lab 播客高级订阅者并且正在观看和/或听到此内容的人，请访问 hubermanlab.com/premium 并下载高级播客源。

And for those of you that are not already Huberman Lab premium podcast subscribers, you will be able to hear the first 15 minutes or so of this episode, and hopefully, that will allow you to discern whether or not you would like to become a premium subscriber.

对于那些还不是 Huberman Lab 高级播客订阅者的人来说，您将能够听到本集的前 15 分钟左右，希望这能让您辨别是否愿意成为高级订阅者。

Without further ado, let's get to answering your questions.

话不多说，让我们开始回答您的问题。

And as always, I will strive to be as accurate as possible, as thorough as possible, and yet as concise as possible.

一如既往，我将努力尽可能准确、尽可能彻底、但又尽可能简洁。

Our first question is about motivation.

我们的第一个问题是关于动机。

In particular, how to maintain motivation over long periods of time.

特别是如何长期保持动力。

This was a question asked by Martin Zokov.

这是马丁·佐科夫提出的问题。

He wrote, "I alternate between periods of two different states that vary from a few weeks to a couple of months.

他写道：“我在两种不同状态的时期之间交替，从几周到几个月不等。

I have extremely high motivation in one state, where I can do multiple things, side projects, making music, as well as my main things, or really low motivational states where I can barely do anything, and I only look for short-term entertainment." I'm guessing short-term entertainment comes in the form of video games, social media, and just kind of doing generally unproductive things, as we all do from time to time.

在一种状态下，我有极高的动力，我可以做多种事情，副业，制作音乐，以及我的主要事情，或者在动力很低的状态下，我几乎什么也做不了，我只寻找短期娱乐。”我猜短期娱乐的形式是电子游戏、社交媒体，以及做一些通常没有成效的事情，就像我们时不时做的那样。

He goes on to write, "What would be the best set of protocols to normalize those extremes into a more stable and consistent state?" Well, first off, this is an excellent question.

他接着写道：“将这些极端情况正常化为更稳定和一致的状态的最佳协议是什么？”嗯，首先，这是一个很好的问题。

I say that because it's a question that I hear a lot, and I think that many people are interested in knowing how motivated they ought to feel, and I think a lot of people also feel a lot less motivated than they would like.

我这么说是因为我经常听到这个问题，而且我认为很多人有兴趣知道他们应该感受到多大的积极性，而且我认为很多人也觉得自己的积极性比他们想要的要低得多。

Now, here, the question was specifically about how to not go from these extremes of days or weeks of high motivation to days or weeks of low motivation.

现在，这里的问题具体是关于如何避免从几天或几周的高动机到几天或几周的低动机的极端情况。

But before we do that, we need to take a step back and acknowledge that just as with anxiety or happiness or sadness, we, as human beings, don't have an objective window into how other people experience motivation.

但在此之前，我们需要退后一步，承认就像焦虑、快乐或悲伤一样，我们作为人类，没有一个客观的窗口来了解其他人如何体验动机。

In fact, most of the time, we don't even realize how we experience motivation.

事实上，大多数时候，我们甚至没有意识到我们是如何体验动力的。

We just know whether or not we feel a high barrier or a low barrier to leaning into work and getting things done.

我们只知道在投入工作和完成工作方面我们是否感到高障碍或低障碍。

In fact, I have a good friend who did many years in the special operations community and then went on to the finance community and then now works in health and wellness community.

事实上，我有一个好朋友，他在特种作战界工作了很多年，然后进入金融界，现在在健康和保健界工作。

He has a great kind of mental image for all of us to adopt.

他有一个伟大的精神形象可供我们所有人采用。

It's certainly one that I've adopted, which is for anything in our life, we can either be back on our heels, flat-footed, or forward center of mass.

这当然是我所采用的一种方法，它适用于我们生活中的任何事情，我们要么原地踏步、措手不及，要么重心前移。

Back on our heels meaning really struggling, flat-footed meaning, we're doing okay, or forward center of mass meaning that we feel as if we're really tackling things and that we are in control of our environment, or at least to some degree.

后跟意味着我们真的很挣扎，措手不及意味着我们做得很好，或者重心向前意味着我们感觉好像我们真的在处理事情并且我们可以控制我们的环境，或者至少在某种程度上。

So I place that imagery in your mind because I'll return to it a little bit later in the question when we get into some of the underlying circuitry and tools.

所以我把这个图像放在你的脑海中，因为当我们进入一些底层电路和工具时，我会在问题中稍后再回到它。

In the meantime, I want to remind everybody what the basis of motivation is.

同时，我想提醒大家动机的基础是什么。

There are many neurochemicals and neural circuits involved in what we call motivation, but a central theme of the neuroscience of motivation is that the neuromodulator dopamine is involved.

我们所说的动机涉及许多神经化学物质和神经回路，但动机神经科学的一个中心主题是神经调节剂多巴胺的参与。

Now, dopamine does other things besides control motivation.

现在，多巴胺除了控制动机之外还有其他作用。

In fact, it controls light adaptation in the retina, that is your eye.

事实上，它控制视网膜（即您的眼睛）的光适应。

It controls a number of different things in terms of movement.

它在运动方面控制许多不同的事物。

It controls all sorts of things, but it is strongly related to the motivation pathways.

它控制着各种各样的事情，但它与动机途径密切相关。

How do we know that?

我们怎么知道这一点？

Well, there are experiments on animals and humans which show that even in the absence of dopamine or in the presence of very low dopamine, I should say, people and animals can still experience pleasure.

嗯，对动物和人类的实验表明，即使在缺乏多巴胺或多巴胺的情况下，我应该说，人和动物仍然可以体验到快乐。

However, when dopamine levels are too low, people's ability to pursue pleasure or their willingness to pursue pleasure, in particular, their willingness to undergo effort to pursue pleasure or any goal of any kind, not just pleasure, any goal of any kind, is strongly regulated by the levels of dopamine.

然而，当多巴胺水平太低时，人们追求快乐的能力或追求快乐的意愿，特别是他们为追求快乐或任何类型的任何目标而付出努力的意愿，而不仅仅是快乐，任何类型的任何目标，都受到多巴胺水平的强烈调节。

So if dopamine levels are too low, people simply will not put in the effort to obtain or reach a goal.

因此，如果多巴胺水平太低，人们根本不会付出努力来实现或达到目标。

If dopamine levels are adequately high, they will put in that effort, and if dopamine levels go too high, you actually see something that is pathologic, which is that people consider every goal a reasonable goal.

如果多巴胺水平足够高，他们就会付出努力，如果多巴胺水平太高，你实际上会看到一些病态的东西，那就是人们认为每个目标都是合理的目标。

This is often seen in the manic phase of a manic bipolar person.

这常见于躁狂双相情感障碍者的躁狂阶段。

So for instance, somebody with manic bipolar who's in the manic episode, dopamine levels are very, very high, and they will think every idea is a great idea, and they will have tons of energy to do that, so much so that they're not sleeping.

举例来说，患有躁狂躁郁症的人在躁狂发作时，多巴胺水平非常非常高，他们会认为每个想法都是好主意，他们会有大量的精力去做这件事，以至于他们无法入睡。

So obviously, that's not what we want.

显然，这不是我们想要的。

What we want and what the question asker, Martin, is asking about is how to keep dopamine levels in a range that allow us to lean into effort but that we don't expend our ability to stay motivated.

我们想要的，也是提问者马丁所问的，是如何将多巴胺水平保持在一个范围内，让我们能够努力工作，但又不会消耗我们保持动力的能力。

And we can really trace that back to a biochemical/neural circuit statement, which is we really want to control our output of dopamine and the baseline levels of dopamine from which that output is taken.

我们确实可以追溯到生化/神经回路声明，即我们确实想要控制多巴胺的输出以及从中获取输出的多巴胺的基线水平。

In other words, we want to think about dopamine as a reservoir or residing in a reservoir.

换句话说，我们想把多巴胺视为一个储存库或驻留在储存库中。

That reservoir can be depleted, so it's exhaustible, it's depletable But it's renewable as well.

那个水库可能会耗尽，所以它是耗尽的，它是耗尽的，但它也是可再生的。

And one of the best analogies that I've ever heard was by a previous guest on the Huberman Lab podcast, Dr. Kyle Gillett, who's a medical doctor, obesity specialist, expert in hormones.

我听过的最好的类比之一是休伯曼实验室播客的前一位嘉宾凯尔·吉列博士说的，他是一位医生、肥胖专家、激素专家。

We did an episode on optimizing hormones in males with Dr.

我们和 Dr. 一起制作了一集关于优化男性荷尔蒙的节目。

Kyle Gillett.

凯尔·吉列特.

You can find that at hubermanlab.com or anywhere you can find podcasts.

您可以在 hubermanlab.com 或任何可以找到播客的地方找到它。

Dr. Gillett offered an analogy of the baseline levels of dopamine as a wave pool, and I really like this.

吉列博士将多巴胺的基线水平比作波浪池，我真的很喜欢这个。

So if you think about this pool full of dopamine, and here we're just talking about the dopamine that resides in the circuits of the brain that control motivation.

因此，如果你想想这个充满多巴胺的池，这里我们只是谈论驻留在控制动机的大脑回路中的多巴胺。

But that pool of dopamine, you can imagine, is just sitting there, not doing much of anything while you're asleep.

但你可以想象，那堆多巴胺只是坐在那里，在你睡觉时没有做任何事情。

In fact, while you're sleeping, you're replenishing those dopamine levels.

事实上，当你睡觉时，你正在补充多巴胺水平。

I'll tell you another tool in a moment to replenish those dopamine levels.

稍后我将告诉您另一种补充多巴胺水平的工具。

But if you were to pursue a goal, really, really go forward center of mass for many, many hours or many, many days in some cases, and pursue a goal or multiple goals, and you're really driven to do a ton, what you're effectively doing is generating waves in that wave pool, and if those waves are too big, well then the waves can't keep repeating themselves.

但是，如果你要追求一个目标，真的，在某些情况下，真的要在质心上前进很多很多小时或很多很多天，并追求一个或多个目标，并且你真的被驱使去做很多事情，那么你实际上所做的就是在那个波浪池中产生波浪，如果这些波浪太大，那么波浪就不能继续重复自己。

So think about the wave as the motivation and the depth of the pool as the reservoir of dopamine, and if those waves are too big, too much excitement, too much motivation, too much center of mass for a given period of time, then the water in this wave pool sloshes out of the wave pool, lowering the reservoir.

因此，可以将波浪视为动力，将水池的深度视为多巴胺的储存库，如果在给定的时间内这些波浪太大、太兴奋、太多的动机、太多的质心，那么这个波浪池中的水就会从波浪池中流出，从而降低储存库。

And then there are really three ways that you can replenish that reservoir, and you want to maintain or replenish that reservoir if it's been depleted.

然后，您可以通过三种方法来补充该水库，并且如果该水库已耗尽，您希望维持或补充该水库。

How do you do that?

你是怎么做到的？

Well, first of all, quality sleep.

嗯，首先，优质的睡眠。

So when I say quality, I mean where you're getting enough slow wave sleep and rapid eye movement sleep.

因此，当我说质量时，我的意思是您获得足够的慢波睡眠和快速动眼睡眠。

So for some people, six hours, for some people, eight hours.

因此，对于某些人来说，六个小时，对于某些人来说，八个小时。

Some people might even need a little bit more or a little bit less.

有些人甚至可能需要多一点或少一点。

We have episodes, the Perfect Your Sleep episode, the Master Your Sleep episode.

我们有剧集，《完美你的睡眠》剧集、《掌控你的睡眠》剧集。

We have a toolkit for sleep, all available at zero cost at hubermanlab.com, links, et cetera.

我们有一个睡眠工具包，所有这些都可以在 hubermanlab.com、链接等处以零成本获得。

So check those out for getting your sleep right.

因此，请检查一下这些内容，以保证您的睡眠质量。

But sleep is really when you replenish that reservoir of dopamine.

但睡眠实际上是补充多巴胺储备的过程。

So you cannot ignore sleep.

所以你不能忽视睡眠。

I'll come back to this in a moment.

我稍后会回来讨论这一点。

The second science-supported tool that's really been shown to replenish dopamine, in particular, dopamine within the pathways that regulate motivation, is a practice I've talked about before on the podcast called non-sleep deep rest, sometimes called yoga nidra, although yoga nidra is a little bit different.

第二种确实被证明可以补充多巴胺的科学支持工具，特别是调节动机途径中的多巴胺，是我之前在播客上谈到的一种练习，称为非睡眠深度休息，有时称为瑜伽休息术，尽管瑜伽休息术有点不同。

There are two studies out of Denmark that have explored yoga nidra in the context of dopamine.

丹麦有两项研究在多巴胺的背景下探索了瑜伽休息术。

The first one simply involved having people do a yoga nidra practice.

第一个只是让人们进行瑜伽休息练习。

Again, this doesn't involve any movement, but involves people, potentially you, doing anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes, although there are now data showing that as short as 10 minutes of a non-sleep deep rest, AKA yoga nidra protocol, leads to dramatic, really dramatic increases in striatal dopamine reserves.

再说一次，这不涉及任何运动，而是涉及人们，可能是你，在任何地方做 30 到 60 分钟，尽管现在有数据表明，短至 10 分钟的非睡眠深度休息，又名瑜伽休息疗法，会导致纹状体多巴胺储备急剧增加。

So it essentially is replenishing the dopamine reserve pool.

所以它本质上是在补充多巴胺储备库。

This is why I'm such a fan of using NSDR, AKA yoga nidra, at least once a day, and especially under times when you're engaging in a lot of high output.

这就是为什么我非常喜欢使用 NSDR（又称瑜伽休息术），每天至少一次，尤其是在进行大量高输出时。

And when I say, especially at times when you're engaging in a lot of high output, this is a mistake many people make.

当我说，尤其是当你从事大量高产出时，这是很多人都会犯的错误。

They push, push, push, push, push, they're in pursuit of a goal, then they hit that point where they're exhausted, then they start doing all the dopamine reserve pool replenishing tools, such as yoga nidra or NSDR.

他们推、推、推、推、推，他们在追求一个目标，然后他们达到了精疲力竭的地步，然后他们开始使用所有多巴胺储备库补充工具，例如瑜伽休息术或 NSDR。

The real key is to always tap off that or refill that reservoir once a day before it's completely depleted.

真正的关键是在水库完全耗尽之前，每天将其关闭或重新填充一次。

Now, this gets into some of the biochemistry of dopamine and the relevant circuits, but it takes a lot longer to restore the dopamine reservoir, think of it still as a wave pool, but that reservoir, from a place of complete depletion than it does of partial depletion.

现在，这涉及到多巴胺和相关电路的一些生物化学，但​​是恢复多巴胺储存库需要更长的时间，仍然可以将其视为波池，但该储存库从完全耗尽的地方比部分耗尽的地方要长得多。

So there's an asymmetry in the way this is done.

因此，这样做的方式存在不对称性。

So it's not as if you drink a glass of water, you fill the glass of water at a certain rate, and it fills up to a certain level, and the rate is constant.

所以这并不是说你喝一杯水，你以一定的速率注满这杯水，它注满到一定的水位，并且速率是恒定的。

Think about it as once the level of dopamine in your reserve is depleted past a certain point, it takes a lot more effort, much more sleep, much more NSDR, things of that sort, to replenish that reservoir.

想象一下，一旦你的储备中的多巴胺水平耗尽超过某个点，你就需要付出更多的努力、更多的睡眠、更多的 NSDR 之类的东西来补充储备。

Now, oftentimes what people will do when they start feeling less motivation is they will start relying on things like Adderall, Ritalin, some cases, illegal substances that can increase dopamine.

现在，当人们开始感到动力不足时，他们通常会开始依赖阿得拉、利他林等药物，在某些情况下，还会使用可以增加多巴胺的非法药物。

You know what those are.

你知道那些是什么。

Please don't ever lean to those.

请永远不要依赖这些。

They are extremely dangerous.

他们非常危险。

They really are, because of their ability to potently release dopamine, and guess what?

它们确实如此，因为它们能够有效释放多巴胺，你猜怎么着？

Deplete that reservoir even further.

进一步耗尽该水库。

We've talked about some supplements on the podcast that can replenish dopamine, L-tyrosine in particular.

我们在播客上讨论了一些可以补充多巴胺，特别是 L-酪氨酸的补充剂。

Mucuna pruriens is actually 99% L-DOPA, the precursor to dopamine.

黧豆实际上 99% 是左旋多巴，即多巴胺的前体。

I don't necessarily recommend Mucuna pruriens.

我不一定推荐黧豆。

It tends to make people very dopaminergic, drive, drive, drive, drive, motivated, and then crash, again, depleting that pool.

它往往会让人们变得非常多巴胺，驱动，驱动，驱动，驱动，动力，然后再次崩溃，耗尽这个池。

L-tyrosine's a little bit milder.

L-酪氨酸稍微温和一些。

But I really encourage people to lean first on the behavioral tools such as NSDR.

但我真的鼓励人们首先依靠 NSDR 等行为工具。

And by the way, there's a NSDR script, totally zero cost, that you can find by putting my name and NSDR into YouTube.

顺便说一句，有一个完全零成本的 NSDR 脚本，您可以通过将我的名字和 NSDR 放入 YouTube 来找到它。

That one works quite well if you're looking for a short NSDR.

如果您正在寻找简短的 NSDR，那么这个方法非常有效。

There's some other NSDRs.

还有一些其他 NSDR。

You can simply look on the internet, or YouTube, and just put NSDR, and you'll find NSDR.

您只需在互联网或 YouTube 上查找，然后输入 NSDR，您就会找到 NSDR。

Or if you prefer to do the more classic yoga nidra type approach, there are a lot of different yoga nidra options to choose from on YouTube.

或者，如果您更喜欢采用更经典的瑜伽休息术类型方法，YouTube 上有很多不同的瑜伽休息术选项可供选择。

Many people think NSDR or yoga nidra are simply meditation with a body scan.

许多人认为 NSDR 或瑜伽休息术只是通过身体扫描进行冥想。

That's not true.

那不是真的。

Meditation is a focus exercise.

冥想是一种集中注意力的练习。

Okay?

好的？

Most meditations are focus exercise.

大多数冥想都是集中注意力练习。

NSDR restores energy through the dopamine system, and newer data are starting to show that it can actually recover lost sleep, so if you're not sleeping enough.

NSDR 通过多巴胺系统恢复能量，新的数据开始表明它实际上可以恢复失去的睡眠，所以如果你睡眠不足的话。

But to return to NSDR, AKA yoga nidra, as a practice, yes, it's been shown in laboratory studies, in humans, by the way, to restore dopamine levels.

但回到 NSDR，又名瑜伽休息术，作为一种练习，是的，实验室研究表明，顺便说一句，它可以恢复人类的多巴胺水平。

There's another study, lesser known, from that same group, that was published in 2011 Which is entitled, "Dopaminergic Stimulation Enhances Confidence and Accuracy in Seeing Rapidly Presented Words." This was a cognitive task.

该小组还有另一项鲜为人知的研究，于 2011 年发表，题为“多巴胺能刺激增强快速呈现单词的信心和准确性”。这是一项认知任务。

They explored yoga nidra, AKA NSDR, in the context of increasing striatal dopamine.

他们在纹状体多巴胺增加的背景下探索了瑜伽休息术（又名 NSDR）。

They already knew that it did that, so that's great.

他们已经知道它做到了这一点，所以这很棒。

They confirmed that result.

他们证实了这个结果。

But what they also found is that doing NSDR could restore confidence in cognitive ability and performance in these cognitive tasks.

但他们还发现，进行 NSDR 可以恢复人们对认知能力和这些认知任务表现的信心。

Okay?

好的？

So this is a really powerful zero-cost tool for re-upping or replenishing that dopamine reserve.

因此，这是一个非常强大的零成本工具，可以重新增加或补充多巴胺储备。

Okay?

好的？

So this is something to do every day, especially when you're not feeling depleted.

所以这是每天都要做的事情，尤其是当你不感到精疲力尽的时候。

So the question again was about how to make sure that you don't go through these cycles of extreme motivation and then lesser motivation.

所以问题又是如何确保你不会经历这些极端动机和较低动机的循环。

Well, get your sleep right, I always say 80% or more of the nights of your life.

好吧，保证你的睡眠质量，我总是说你一生中 80% 或更多的夜晚。

Hopefully, the nights that it's not good are for good reasons, that you're enjoying yourself, but hey, life happens, so 100% of the time is just not reasonable to expect of yourself.

希望那些不美好的夜晚是有充分理由的，因为你很享受自己，但是嘿，生活会发生，所以 100% 的时间对自己的期望是不合理的。

Do NSDR once a day for either 10 minutes.

每天进行一次 NSDR，每次 10 分钟。

If you have the time to do 20, 30 minutes, or an hour, you will see even more positive effects.

如果你有时间做 20、30 分钟或一个小时，你会看到更多积极的效果。

It has been shown in these research studies to replenish dopamine, levels of confidence, cognitive ability, et cetera, and sense of motivation.

这些研究表明，它可以补充多巴胺、信心水平、认知能力等以及动机感。

And I said there were three tools, and the third tool that really can allow you to keep the dopamine, AKA motivation circuitry, tuned up properly is to really start paying attention to peaks in dopamine and be very careful about layering in too many things that can stimulate the dopamine system.

我说过有三个工具，第三个真正可以让你保持多巴胺（又名动机电路）正确调节的工具是真正开始关注多巴胺的峰值，并非常小心地分层，避免加入太多可以刺激多巴胺系统的东西。

I talked about this quite a bit in the episode that we did on ADHD and building and maintaining focus.

我在关于多动症以及建立和保持注意力的节目中多次谈到了这一点。

There are many things out there nowadays that will deplete the dopamine system.

现在有很多东西会耗尽多巴胺系统。

For instance, and by the way, none of what I'm about to list is necessarily bad.

例如，顺便说一句，我要列出的内容都不一定是坏的。

I actually use some of these things.

我实际上使用其中一些东西。

For instance, caffeine will increase dopamine receptors that will allow whatever dopamine is available to be more potent.

例如，咖啡因会增加多巴胺受体，从而使任何多巴胺都更有效。

Okay, so caffeine's great for some people, less good for people with anxiety.

好吧，咖啡因对某些人来说很有好处，但对焦虑症患者则不太好。

Don't drink it too late in the day because it'll interfere with your sleep, and so on and so forth.

一天中不要喝太晚，因为它会干扰你的睡眠等等。

But many people will combine caffeine with music that they particularly like.

但很多人会将咖啡因与他们特别喜欢的音乐结合起来。

Music's great.

音乐很棒。

Music can stimulate dopamine release.

音乐可以刺激多巴胺的释放。

We know this.

我们知道这一点。

It can enhance motivation, especially if it's the kind of music that really puts you in the groove for the particular type of work you're going to do.

它可以增强动力，尤其是当它是那种真正让你适合你要做的特定类型工作的音乐时。

For me, I like to listen to either loud, fast music or Glenn Gould classical piano.

对我来说，我喜欢听响亮、快节奏的音乐或格伦·古尔德古典钢琴。

So one or the other.

所以两者择其一吧。

I know what's right for me for a given time.

我知道在特定的时间内什么对我来说是正确的。

You'll know what's right for you for a given time and your preferences.

您会知道在特定时间什么最适合您以及您的偏好。

But what will happen is people will start consuming caffeine at higher and higher levels.

但将会发生的是，人们将开始摄入越来越高水平的咖啡因。

Again, caffeine isn't necessarily bad, but they'll start doing that, and they'll start layering it in or stacking very potent music, potent for them, plus things like L-tyrosine.

再说一次，咖啡因不一定是坏事，但他们会开始这样做，他们会开始将咖啡因分层或叠加非常有力的音乐，对他们来说很有效，再加上 L-酪氨酸之类的东西。

Again, none of these things are terrible on their own.

再说一遍，这些事情本身并不可怕。

In fact, they can be very beneficial.

事实上，它们可能非常有益。

Sometimes they'll start taking Mucuna pruriens.

有时他们会开始服用黧豆。

Sometimes they'll start relying on things like Adderall, Ritalin, and pretty soon what's happening is they're getting these big waves in that dopamine wave pool, big peaks, and within a few days or maybe even within a few hours, they're depleted, and they're at that low.

有时他们会开始依赖阿得拉、利他林之类的药物，很快发生的事情是，他们的多巴胺波池中出现了大波，大峰值，在几天内，甚至可能在几个小时内，它们就耗尽了，并且处于那么低的水平。

And then, as Dr. Anna Lembke, who was a guest on the podcast, talked about in terms of addiction, but also in her wonderful book, "Dopamine Nation", what happens is after those big peaks in dopamine, the reservoir, the baseline in dopamine drops below its initial level.

然后，正如播客嘉宾安娜·莱姆克博士在成瘾方面谈到的那样，而且也在她精彩的著作《多巴胺国家》中谈到，在多巴胺（储存库）的那些大峰值之后，多巴胺的基线下降到其初始水平以下。

So it's as if the reservoir got deeper and it's emptier, and it takes much, much longer to fill.

因此，就好像水库变得更深、更空，而且需要更长、更长的时间才能充满。

Okay, so to be quite specific, what I'm recommending is get your sleep right, ideally every night of your life, but for as many nights of your life as possible.

好吧，具体来说，我的建议是保证你的睡眠质量，最好是你生命中的每个晚上，但要尽可能多地保持睡眠。

That's clearly replenishing dopamine and sense of motivation.

这显然可以补充多巴胺和动力。

Do all the things associated with that.

做所有与此相关的事情。

Morning sunlight, lack of artificial light at certain hours of the night, et cetera.

早晨的阳光、夜间某些时间缺乏人造光等等。

All of that's in the toolkit for sleep in other episodes I mentioned before.

所有这些都在我之前提到的其他剧集中的睡眠工具包中。

Have a practice that is research-supported to replenish dopamine and incorporate that practice any time of day.

进行一项经研究支持的练习来补充多巴胺，并在一天中的任何时间进行该练习。

Again, NSDR can be done morning, afternoon, or evening, or middle of the night if you wake up and you need to get back to sleep.

同样，NSDR 可以在早上、下午、晚上或半夜（如果您醒来后需要重新入睡）进行。

It can be very beneficial for that.

这对此非常有益。

But do it as a consistent practice so that dopamine reservoir remains topped off.

但要始终如一地这样做，以便多巴胺储备保持满载。

And as a third point, please be wary of, or at least aware of, these peaks in dopamine and the fact that layering in a lot of things that stimulate dopamine, while that can be wonderful for your wedding, a birth of a new child, going to a sports event with a bunch of friends, celebrating a big anniversary, yes, please do celebrate and enjoy the wonderful events of life.

第三点，请警惕，或至少意识到，多巴胺的这些峰值，以及分层的许多刺激多巴胺的事实，而这对于您的婚礼、新生儿的出生、与一群朋友一起参加体育赛事、庆祝重大周年纪念日来说都是美好的，是的，请一定要庆祝并享受生活中的美好事件。

But please also understand and expect there will be a lull, a sort of postpartum low, maybe not full-blown depression, that follows that, unless you incorporate some tools and practices to replenish that dopamine.

但也请理解并预期接下来会出现一段平静期，一种产后低谷，也许不是全面的抑郁症，除非你采用一些工具和做法来补充多巴胺。

Does that mean you should never combine caffeine, L-tyrosine, music, and a workout, and time with friends?

这是否意味着您永远不应该将咖啡因、L-酪氨酸、音乐、锻炼以及与朋友在一起的时间结合起来？

No, absolutely not.

不，绝对不是。

But don't expect to do that and then go do an intense bout of work, and then get up the next morning and do it all over again for more than a few days before you find yourself pretty depleted.

但不要期望这样做，然后去做一场紧张的工作，然后第二天早上起床，重复做这件事，持续几天，然后你就会发现自己已经精疲力尽了。

Okay?

好的？

So rather than give you a specific schedule of do seven days of this and four days of this, what I encourage you to do is for at least five days a week, maybe give yourself some time off on the weekends, maybe not, but for at least five days a week, get into a consistent routine that is, I should say, neurobiologically consistent as well with how the dopamine, AKA circuits that control motivation work, and I assure you that you will find yourself in a more regular groove of focus and attention and alertness and motivation when you need to.

因此，我鼓励你每周至少做五天，也许周末给自己一些时间，也许不是，但不要给你一个具体的时间表，每周至少做五天，也许不是，但每周至少五天，进入一个一致的例程，我应该说，这在神经生物学上与多巴胺（控制动机的回路）如何工作是一致的，我向你保证，当你需要。

And provided you're doing all the things I described, and hopefully paying attention to other things like nutrition and social connection too, of course, you'll find a much more even pattern of motivation over time.

如果你正在做我描述的所有事情，并且希望也关注其他事情，例如营养和社会联系，当然，随着时间的推移，你会发现一种更加均匀的动机模式。

One last thing before I conclude the answer to this question.

在我结束这个问题的答案之前还有最后一件事。

When I was in graduate school, I got some wonderful advice from an excellent neurologist.

当我在读研究生时，我从一位优秀的神经科医生那里得到了一些很好的建议。

His name is Robert Knight.

他的名字叫罗伯特·奈特。

He used to be at University of California, Berkeley.

他曾就读于加州大学伯克利分校。

I think he's retired now, but is still active in the scientific community.

我认为他现在已经退休了，但仍然活跃在科学界。

And I asked him what he was doing that weekend.

我问他那个周末在做什么。

I don't know why this came up, and he said, "Oh, I'm going fishing.

我不知道为什么会出现这个问题，他说：“哦，我要去钓鱼。

I like kind of mindless recreation." I said, "That's great.

我喜欢那种无意识的娱乐。”我说：“那太好了。

Fishing's fun.

钓鱼真有趣。

I'm not particularly into fishing myself, but I've done it a few times, and I enjoy it." And he said, "You know the most important thing for a science or medicine career or any demanding career?"

我自己并不是特别喜欢钓鱼，但我已经钓过几次了，而且很享受。”他说：“你知道对于科学或医学职业或任何要求高的职业来说最重要的是什么吗？”

I said, "What?" I was all ears.

我说：“什么？”我洗耳恭听。

I was super hungry to get in the mix and do research and publish papers.

我非常渴望参与其中并进行研究和发表论文。

And he said, "Figure out how many hours a day you can do real work consistently." That means five days a week.

他说，“弄清楚你每天可以持续做多少小时的实际工作。”这意味着每周五天。

For some people, six or seven, but five days a week, I think for most people is going to be a bit healthier overall for your social life and family, et cetera.

对于某些人来说，一周六七天，但五天，我认为对于大多数人来说，社交生活和家庭等方面总体上会更健康一些。

And he said, "Figure that out and know that that number is what you should apply over and over and over again, but update that number about every four or five years." And I said, "Okay, so does that mean that over time I'm working more and more or less and less?" And he said, "Ah, here's the deal.

他说，“弄清楚并知道这个数字是你应该一遍又一遍地应用的数字，但大约每四五年更新一次这个数字。”我说：“好吧，这是否意味着随着时间的推移，我的工作量会越来越多，或者越来越少？”他说：“啊，事情就是这样。

As you get better at your profession, you will find that you can do more potent work, more directed work in a shorter amount of time, but that does not mean that you can continue to expand the amount of time that you're doing focused work.

当你在自己的专业领域做得更好时，你会发现你可以在更短的时间内完成更有效、更有针对性的工作，但这并不意味着你可以继续延长专注工作的时间。

In fact, the opposite." So this follows a sort of general principle that's also present in resistance training, weightlifting, right?

事实上，恰恰相反。”所以这遵循了阻力训练和举重中也存在的一般原则，对吗？

The analogy there is that people always imagine that as you get better and better at resistance training, you should do more and more volume, just keep adding volume.

打个比方，人们总是想象，随着你在阻力训练方面做得越来越好，你应该做越来越多的训练量，只是不断增加训练量。

And there's some evidence to support that, more volume for hypertrophy as opposed to less, et cetera.

有一些证据支持这一点，更多的训练量会导致肥大，而不是更少的训练量，等等。

We've done episodes on this.

我们已经制作了这方面的剧集。

However, there's a different school of thought that works exceedingly well, and it runs in the exact opposite direction, which is as you get better at controlling muscular contractions, or let's say for in an endurance sport, as you get better at regulating your stride and breathing and all those things, you actually can do more, quote-unquote, adaptation-stimulating damage during a given training session.

然而，有一种不同的思想流派效果非常好，它的运行方向完全相反，那就是当你更好地控制肌肉收缩时，或者比方说，在耐力运动中，当你更好地调节你的步幅和呼吸以及所有这些事情时，你实际上可以在给定的训练过程中做更多的、引用不引用的、适应刺激的损伤。

So you want to train less, not more over time, because beginners don't actually have the ability to get much done in a lot of time or a short period of time, whereas experts can come in there and really nail it.

因此，随着时间的推移，你想要减少而不是更多的训练，因为初学者实际上没有能力在大量时间或短时间内完成很多工作，而专家可以进来并真正做到这一点。

So I think that advice that Robert Knight was really key, and it's something that I've followed throughout my career.

所以我认为罗伯特·奈特的建议非常关键，也是我在整个职业生涯中一直遵循的建议。

So at one period of my life, I won't mention the hours that I worked in graduate school, they were pretty insane, to be honest.

所以在我人生的某个阶段，我不会提及我在研究生院工作的时间，说实话，那是相当疯狂的。

I had family members get a little concerned.

我的家人有点担心。

I actually lived in the laboratory, even as a junior professor.

我实际上住在实验室里，即使是作为一名初级教授。

I don't suggest people do that, by the way, but I enjoyed it at the time.

顺便说一句，我不建议人们这样做，但我当时很喜欢这样做。

And the key thing is that you figure out what you can do consistently and still maintain mental health and physical health.

关键是你要弄清楚你可以持续做什么，同时仍然保持心理健康和身体健康。

That's key as well.

这也是关键。

And do that, and then every couple of years or so, update that typically by reducing the total amount of time that you're doing that high-potency work.

这样做，然后每隔几年左右，通常通过减少您执行高效工作的总时间来更新它。

I think that combined with the other tools that I described before for generating ongoing dopaminergic circuits, keeping that reservoir full, ought to give you consistent motivation.

我认为，结合我之前描述的其他工具来生成持续的多巴胺能回路，保持储库充满，应该会给你持续的动力。

Again, it's an art and a practice and a science, so don't expect to get it perfect the first time around, but I wish you all luck, and I'm certain that these tools work.

再说一次，这是一门艺术、一种实践和一门科学，所以不要指望第一次就完美，但我祝你好运，我确信这些工具是有效的。

Thank you for joining for the beginning of this Ask Me Anything episode.

感谢您参与本期《有事问我》一集的开始。

To hear the full episode and to hear future episodes of these Ask Me Anything sessions, plus to receive transcripts of them and transcripts of the Huberman Lab podcast standard channel and premium tools not released anywhere else, please go to hubermanlab.com/premium.

要收听完整剧集和收听“Ask Me Anything”会议的未来剧集，以及接收这些会议的文字记录以及 Huberman Lab 播客标准频道和其他地方未发布的高级工具的文字记录，请访问 hubermanlab.com/premium。

Just to remind you why we launched the Huberman Lab podcast premium channel, it's really twofold.

只是提醒您为什么我们推出 Huberman Lab 播客高级频道，它实际上是双重的。

First of all, it's to raise support for the standard Huberman Lab podcast channel, which of course will still be continued to be released every Monday in full length.

首先，是为了提高对标准Huberman Lab播客频道的支持，当然该频道仍然会继续每周一完整发布。

We are not going to change the format or anything about the standard Huberman Lab podcast.

我们不会更改标准 Huberman 实验室播客的格式或任何内容。

And to fund research, in particular, research done on human beings, so not animal models, but on human beings, which I think we all agree is a species that we are most interested in.

为了资助研究，特别是对人类进行的研究，所以不是动物模型，而是对人类进行的研究，我认为我们都同意这是我们最感兴趣的物种。

And we are going to specifically fund research that is aimed toward developing further protocols for mental health, physical health, and performance, and those protocols will be distributed through all channels, not just the premium channel, but through all channels, Huberman Lab podcast and other media channels.

我们将专门资助研究，旨在开发进一步的心理健康、身体健康和表现协议，这些协议将通过所有渠道分发，不仅仅是高级渠道，而是通过所有渠道、胡伯曼实验室播客和其他媒体渠道。

So the idea here is to give you information to your burning questions in depth and allow you the opportunity to support the kind of research that provides those kinds of answers in the first place.

因此，这里的想法是为您提供深入的紧迫问题的信息，并让您有机会支持首先提供此类答案的研究。

Now, an especially exciting feature of the premium channel is that the Tiny Foundation has generously offered to do a dollar-for-dollar match on all funds raised for research through the premium channel.

现在，高级渠道的一个特别令人兴奋的特点是，Tiny 基金会慷慨地提出对通过高级渠道筹集的所有研究资金进行一美元对一美元的匹配。

So this is a terrific way that they're going to amplify whatever funds come in through the premium channel to further support research for science and science-related tools for mental health, physical health, and performance.

因此，这是一种很棒的方式，他们将扩大通过优质渠道获得的资金，以进一步支持心理健康、身体健康和表现方面的科学和科学相关工具的研究。

If you'd like to sign up for the Huberman Lab premium channel, again, there's a cost of $10 per month, or you can pay $100 up front for the entire year.

如果您想注册 Huberman Lab 高级频道，每月费用为 10 美元，或者您可以全年预付 100 美元。

That will give you access to all the AMAs.

这将使您能够访问所有 AMA。

You can ask questions and get answers to your questions, and you'll, of course, get answers to all the questions that other people ask as well.

您可以提出问题并获得问题的答案，当然，您也会获得其他人提出的所有问题的答案。

There will also be some premium content, such as transcripts of the AMAs and various transcripts and protocols of Huberman Lab podcast episodes not found elsewhere.

还会有一些优质内容，例如 AMA 的文字记录以及其他地方找不到的 Huberman Lab 播客剧集的各种文字记录和协议。

And again, you'll be supporting research for mental health, physical health, and performance.

同样，您将支持心理健康、身体健康和表现方面的研究。

You can sign up for the premium channel by going to hubermanlab.com/premium.

您可以访问 hubermanlab.com/premium 注册高级频道。

Again, that's hubermanlab.com/premium.

再说一次，这是 hubermanlab.com/premium。

And as always, thank you for your interest in science.

一如既往，感谢您对科学的兴趣。