AMA #15: Fluoride Benefits/Risks & Vagus Nerve Stimulation

I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

我是安德鲁·休伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科教授。

Today is an Ask Me Anything episode, or AMA.

今天是“有问必答”节目（AMA）。

This is part of our premium subscriber channel.

这是我们的高级订户频道的一部分。

Our premium subscriber channel was started in order to provide support for the standard Huberman Lab podcast, which comes out every Monday and is available at zero cost to everybody on all standard feeds-- YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and elsewhere.

我们的高级订户频道的启动是为了为标准 Huberman Lab 播客提供支持，该播客每周一发布，每个人都可以在所有标准源（YouTube、Apple、Spotify 和其他地方）上以零成本观看。

We also started the premium channel as a way to generate support for exciting research being done at Stanford and elsewhere, research on human beings that leads to important discoveries that assist mental health, physical health, and performance.

我们还启动了付费频道，为斯坦福大学和其他地方正在进行的令人兴奋的研究提供支持，这些研究对人类进行了有助于心理健康、身体健康和表现的重要发现。

I'm also pleased to inform you that for every dollar the Huberman Lab Premium Channel generates for research studies, the Tiny Foundation has agreed to match that amount.

我还很高兴地通知您，Huberman Lab 高级频道为研究产生的每一美元，Tiny 基金会都同意匹配该金额。

So now we are able to double the total amount of funding given to studies of mental health, physical health, and human performance.

因此，现在我们能够将用于心理健康、身体健康和人类表现研究的资金总额增加一倍。

So without further ado, let's get to answering your questions.

因此，事不宜迟，让我们开始回答您的问题。

The first question is about fluoride, and the specific question is, why is fluoride in our water and how much is it harming us?

第一个问题是关于氟化物的，具体问题是，为什么我们的水中含有氟化物，它对我们的危害有多大？

OK, well, that might seem like a short question, but there's actually a lot to that question.

好吧，这似乎是一个简短的问题，但实际上这个问题有很多内容。

And I want to be very clear, by posing the question, how much is it harming us?

通过提出这个问题，我想非常清楚地表明，它对我们的伤害有多大？

It implies that fluoride is harming us.

这意味着氟化物正在伤害我们。

And I want to be very clear, the degree to which fluoride can harm you or not harm you depends on how much of it happens to be in the water or toothpaste or some other thing that you're consuming.

我想非常明确地指出，氟化物对您的伤害或不伤害的程度取决于水、牙膏或您所消耗的其他东西中的氟化物含量。

So this is very important.

所以这一点非常重要。

I don't want the question to seem like a leading question to imply that fluoride is necessarily harming us because as I'm about to tell you, there are clear benefits of fluoride for tooth strength and for warding off cavities.

我不希望这个问题看起来像是一个引导性问题，暗示氟化物必然会伤害我们，因为正如我要告诉你的那样，氟化物对牙齿强度和预防蛀牙有明显的好处。

But if you get too much fluoride into your system, it is dangerous.

但如果您的系统中摄入过多的氟化物，那就很危险了。

It is a poison at certain levels.

它在一定程度上是一种毒药。

So as you've probably heard before, the dose makes the poison.

正如您之前可能听说过的那样，剂量产生毒药。

So let's take this seemingly simple question and dissect it in two.

因此，让我们把这个看似简单的问题分成两部分来剖析。

The first part of the question was, why is fluoride in our water?

问题的第一部分是，为什么我们的水中含有氟化物？

And believe it or not, even that is hard to answer directly because here's what's happening right now in 2024.

不管你相信与否，即使这个问题也很难直接回答，因为这就是 2024 年正在发生的事情。

There is a major lawsuit in the State of California to try and get fluoride removed from the drinking water.

加利福尼亚州有一场重大诉讼，试图从饮用水中去除氟化物。

The outcome of that case is still yet to be determined, but the case was filed by a group of individuals who strongly believe that fluoride at any concentration in the drinking water is bad.

该案件的结果尚未确定，但该案件是由一群坚信饮用水中任何浓度的氟化物都是有害的人提起的。

Why would they say that, and what is their evidence, and how strong is that evidence?

他们为什么这么说？他们的证据是什么？这些证据有多有力？

Well, there is some evidence that if levels of fluoride in drinking water exceed a certain threshold, it can cause problems with thyroid hormone function and perhaps even certain aspects of brain function.

嗯，有一些证据表明，如果饮用水中的氟化物含量超过一定阈值，就会导致甲状腺激素功能出现问题，甚至可能导致大脑功能的某些方面出现问题。

Again, if the levels exceed a certain threshold.

同样，如果水平超过某个阈值。

So in the State of California, there is a major lawsuit to try and get fluoride removed from the drinking water.

因此，在加利福尼亚州，有一场重大诉讼试图从饮用水中去除氟化物。

Now at the same time, meaning right now, there is also a major lawsuit in the United States, this one taking place in Buffalo, New York, whereby citizens are suing the city because they insist that there is not enough fluoride in the water, and they are suing for damages based on the dental health needs of their children that did not, in their opinion, get enough fluoride in the drinking water.

与此同时，也就是现在，美国也发生了一起重大诉讼，这起诉讼发生在纽约州布法罗，公民们起诉该市，因为他们坚持认为水中没有足够的氟化物，并且他们根据孩子的牙齿健康需求提起诉讼，要求赔偿损失，因为他们认为饮用水中没有获得足够的氟化物。

So I'm telling you about all of this because the question, again, was why is fluoride in our drinking water?

所以我告诉你这一切是因为问题又是为什么我们的饮用水中含有氟化物？

And believe it or not, there are certain states in the United States, certain areas of the United States where the fluoride levels in the drinking water are low-- are zero, perhaps-- that's what the lawsuit in Buffalo is about.

不管你信不信，美国的某些州、某些地区饮用水中的氟化物含量很低——也许为零——这就是布法罗诉讼的目的。

And by the way, the City of Buffalo may have now corrected the amount of fluoride in the water, taking it from zero to something.

顺便说一句，布法罗市现在可能已经修正了水中的氟化物含量，将其从零提高到了一定程度。

Whether or not it was actually zero is still debatable, but I think starting to get the point that there is a wide, wide divergence in terms of how safe people feel about having fluoride in drinking water.

它是否实际上为零仍然存在争议，但我认为开始明白这一点，即人们对饮用水中氟化物的安全感存在很大的分歧。

Some people want it and are suing cities because they feel there wasn't enough of it in their drinking water, and others don't want any fluoride in their drinking water and they're suing cities because of that.

有些人想要它并起诉城市，因为他们觉得他们的饮用水中氟化物含量不够，而另一些人不希望他们的饮用水中含有任何氟化物，因此他们起诉城市。

So this is a really barbed wire topic, as I like to say.

所以正如我想说的，这确实是一个铁丝网话题。

It's one that no matter how close you get to it, whatever angle you look at it, you're likely to get stuck a little bit, it's going to be a little bit painful.

无论你距离它有多近，无论你从什么角度看它，你都可能会被卡住，会有点痛苦。

OK.

好的。

Why is fluoride in some drinking water at all?

为什么有些饮用水中含有氟化物？

OK, let's set aside the levels and just answer that question.

好吧，让我们抛开级别来回答这个问题。

Well, in an upcoming episode of the Huberman Lab podcast about oral health, I'll get into this in a lot more detail, but fluoride is a really interesting compound with respect to oral health, and here's why.

好吧，在即将播出的关于口腔健康的休伯曼实验室播客中，我将更详细地介绍这一点，但氟化物对于口腔健康来说是一种非常有趣的化合物，这就是原因。

Your teeth, believe it or not, are always in a state of either demineralization or remineralization.

不管你信不信，你的牙齿总是处于脱矿质或再矿化状态。

Those are tricky words to say.

这些话很难说。

Go ahead and try and say it-- demineralization, remineralization.

继续尝试说出来——脱矿质、再矿化。

So I'm going to refer to them as "demin" for demineralization and "remin" for remineralization.

因此，我将把它们称为“demin”（脱矿质）和“remin”（再矿质化）。

OK, your teeth are always in one state or the other, or one state predominates versus the other.

好吧，你的牙齿总是处于一种状态或另一种状态，或者一种状态相对于另一种状态占主导地位。

Now a cavity in your mouth occurs when bacteria-- in particular, Streptococcus mutans, sometimes called Strep mutans, feeds on sugars in your mouth, and then as a byproduct of that feeding, creates acids that then erode the enamel and deeper layers of your teeth.

现在，当细菌（特别是变形链球菌，有时称为变形链球菌）以口腔中的糖为食，然后作为该进食的副产品，产生酸，进而侵蚀牙釉质和牙齿更深层时，口腔中就会出现蛀牙。

In other words, it demineralizes the tooth.

换句话说，它使牙齿脱矿质。

Now I just told you that your teeth can be in a state of demin or remin at any moment.

现在我只是告诉你，你的牙齿随时都可能处于 demin 或 remin 状态。

The way that your teeth remin, the way they're mineralize and can potentially fill in little cavities that have not yet made it to the deeper layers of your teeth is through a process that involves the construction of crystals from minerals-- that's why it's called remineralization.

你的牙齿提醒的方式、它们矿化的方式以及可能填充尚未进入牙齿深层的小蛀牙的方式是通过一个涉及矿物质晶体构建的过程 - 这就是为什么它被称为再矿化。

And get this, this is really wild.

明白了，这真的很疯狂。

These minerals actually stack together in very organized little sequences, kind of like LEGO blocks, and the critical element within those blocks is something called hydroxyapatite.

这些矿物质实际上以非常有组织的小序列堆叠在一起，有点像乐高积木，而这些积木中的关键元素是一种叫做羟基磷灰石的东西。

I love that it has the word appetite in it because we're talking about oral health.

我喜欢它里面有“食欲”这个词，因为我们谈论的是口腔健康。

That's the normal process.

这是正常的过程。

Fluoride was discovered not because it's a vitamin, not because it's an essential nutrient.

氟化物的发现并不是因为它是一种维生素，也不是因为它是一种必需营养素。

In fact, at high concentrations it's actually a poison-- I'll tell you a story about that in a moment where I was actually poisoned by fluoride at the dentist when I was a kid, in large part due to my own error.

事实上，在高浓度下，它实际上是一种毒药——我会告诉你一个关于这个的故事，当我还是个孩子的时候，我实际上在牙医那里被氟化物中毒了，很大程度上是由于我自己的错误。

Fluoride, it was discovered, can actually get inside of those LEGO chain-like crystals, the building of those, and form bonds between them that are actually stronger than the hydroxyapatite bonds that would normally form.

人们发现，氟化物实际上可以进入乐高链状晶体的内部，构建它们，并在它们之间形成实际上比通常形成的羟基磷灰石键更强的键。

In other words, if you consume fluoridated water or you use toothpaste with fluoride, especially if you do this when you're a kid, what ends up happening is that the crystals and the mineralization structure of the teeth becomes ultra strong, meaning super physiologically strong, which then limits the ability for that Strep mutans and the acid Strep mutans produces when it eats sugar to erode the enamel of your teeth, causing what we refer to as cavities.

换句话说，如果你饮用氟化水或使用含氟牙膏，尤其是在你还是个孩子的时候这样做，最终会发生的情况是牙齿的晶体和矿化结构变得超强，这意味着在生理上超强，从而限制了变形链球菌和变形链球菌在吃糖时产生的酸性侵蚀牙釉质的能力，从而导致我们所说的蛀牙。

OK, so I went and asked several dentists and a periodontist about why is fluoride in drinking water?

好的，所以我去问了几位牙医和一位牙周病医生，为什么饮用水中含有氟化物？

Why is fluoride in toothpaste?

牙膏中为何含有氟化物？

And they, of course, gave me the explanation that I just gave you, which is a chemical mechanical explanation or rationale.

当然，他们给了我刚才给你的解释，这是化学力学的解释或基本原理。

However, most of the things for our health, such as the foods we eat, the amount of exercise that we do, are not naturally put into our environment, but tap water, which goes out to everyone who consumes it from the tap, is basically a government or local government-supplied resource.

然而，大多数对我们健康有益的东西，比如我们吃的食物、我们做的运动量，并不是自然地进入我们的环境的，但自来水，从水龙头流向每个饮用它的人，基本上是政府或地方政府提供的资源。

And basically, the rationale was-- and I believe this took place first in the 1950s, was, OK, given the potential for fluoride to make super physiologically strong teeth, what can we do to reduce the cavities and tooth decay that would occur in children and adult populations?

基本上，其基本原理是——我相信这首先发生在 20 世纪 50 年代，好吧，考虑到氟化物有可能制造出生理上超强的牙齿，我们能做些什么来减少儿童和成人中可能出现的蛀牙和蛀牙？

Let's put fluoride in the drinking water.

让我们在饮用水中添加氟化物。

So that's what they did.

所以他们就是这么做的。

They did not do this, I was told, because it was necessarily the best way to take care of teeth and avoid cavities.

有人告诉我，他们没有这样做，因为这必然是护理牙齿和避免蛀牙的最佳方法。

It turns out, there are a bunch of other things that you can do even if you consume no fluoridated water or toothpaste.

事实证明，即使您不喝氟化水或牙膏，您也可以做很多其他事情。

There are things that you can do to enhance the mineralization state of your teeth-- even fill in cavities, provided those cavities haven't made it into the deeper so-called dentine layers of the teeth.

您可以采取一些措施来增强牙齿的矿化状态，甚至可以填充蛀牙，前提是这些蛀牙尚未进入牙齿更深的所谓牙本质层。

I'll get into all of this in that future episode.

我将在未来的剧集中详细介绍所有这些内容。

But what the US and other governments decided-- this, of course, varies across the world to the extent to which there's fluoride in the drinking water or not, was that by putting fluoride in the drinking water, they could prevent a large amount of tooth decay and cavities that would otherwise occur.

但美国和其他国家政府的决定——当然，这在世界各地因饮用水中是否含有氟化物而有所不同——通过在饮用水中添加氟化物，他们可以防止大量蛀牙和蛀牙的发生。

It was and remains a fairly low-cost approach for these cities to introduce fluoride to the drinking water, and that's why fluoride is in drinking water.

对于这些城市来说，将氟化物引入饮用水中过去和现在都是一种相当低成本的方法，这就是饮用水中含有氟化物的原因。

It is to try and create super physiologically strong teeth.

这是为了尝试创造出生理上超强的牙齿。

And indeed, every single dentist I spoke to, including functional dentists, I spoke to periodontists, I spoke to several dentists ranging from-- let's call them more traditionally trained dentists to more-- let's call them alternative dentists, all of them agree that at a chemical-mechanical level, fluoride creates stronger teeth.

事实上，我采访过的每一位牙医，包括功能性牙医，牙周病医生，我采访过的几位牙医，从——让我们称他们为更传统训练的牙医，到更多——让我们称他们为另类牙医，他们都同意，在化学机械水平上，氟化物可以创造更坚固的牙齿。

However, every single one of them also acknowledged that the bonds that are created in those mineralization chains as I'm referring to-- I realize that's not the technical term, is not the normal hydroxyapatite bonds that would form.

然而，他们每个人都承认，正如我所指的，在这些矿化链中产生的键——我意识到这不是技术术语，也不是形成的正常羟基磷灰石键。

They are stronger than the bonds that would normally form.

它们比通常形成的债券更牢固。

They are structurally different-- if you look at them down what's called an electron microscope, you'll see that they're structurally different.

它们在结构上是不同的——如果你用所谓的电子显微镜观察它们，你会发现它们在结构上是不同的。

And some-- not all of the dentists I spoke to-- said, yeah, it would be best to remineralize the teeth to fill in any cavities that initially have formed-- again, not down to the deep layers, but they could still be filled in naturally through the building up of those hydroxyapatite natural bonds, but they acknowledged that many people-- perhaps most people-- don't take adequate care of their mouths and their teeth, so they understood the rationale of putting fluoride into drinking water, and of course, that's also why fluoride is in many, not all, toothpastes.

有些人（并非所有与我交谈过的牙医）说，是的，最好对牙齿进行再矿化，以填充最初形成的任何蛀牙，同样，不要深入到深层，但它们仍然可以通过羟基磷灰石天然键的建立而自然地填充，但他们承认，许多人（也许是大多数人）没有充分照顾自己的口腔和牙齿，因此他们了解在饮用水中添加氟化物的基本原理，并且当然，这也是许多（而非全部）牙膏中含有氟化物的原因。

OK, so I'm hoping that clearly answers for you the question of why there is fluoride in our drinking water at all, at least in most American cities, there is fluoride in the drinking water, although this lawsuit in Buffalo, I guess soon to be determined.

好的，所以我希望这能清楚地回答你为什么我们的饮用水中含有氟化物的问题，至少在大多数美国城市，饮用水中含有氟化物，尽管布法罗的这场诉讼我想很快就会有结果。

Will probably tell us whether or not, indeed, there was a total lack or a partial lack of fluoride in the drinking water there.

可能会告诉我们那里的饮用水是否确实完全缺乏或部分缺乏氟化物。

I'm presuming that the accusation is true, but I don't actually know that to be true.

我假设该指控是真实的，但我实际上并不知道这是真的。

I just know that there's a lawsuit that exists.

我只知道存在一场诉讼。

If you Google that, you can see some YouTube videos about it.

如果你用谷歌搜索，你可以看到一些关于它的 YouTube 视频。

There's information about this happening.

有关于这件事发生的信息。

There are a bunch of angry parents.

有一群愤怒的父母。

And I'm sure there are angry parents on the other side, and I don't know what the kids are saying, but hopefully no matter what, they're saying them through healthy teeth.

我确信另一边也有愤怒的父母，我不知道孩子们在说什么，但希望无论如何，他们都是通过健康的牙齿说出来的。

OK, now the second half of the question was, how much is the fluoride in drinking water harming us?

好，现在问题的后半部分是，饮用水中的氟化物对我们的危害有多大？

I'm going to answer this question very specifically.

我要非常具体地回答这个问题。

The person asks, how much is the fluoride in our drinking water harming us?

有人问，饮用水中的氟化物对我们的危害有多大？

Well, I already told you ways in which it is helping the strength of your teeth.

好吧，我已经告诉过你它如何帮助你的牙齿变得坚固。

That's not debated.

这没有争议。

Again, there might be some dentists that say, oh, the bonds that are formed by fluoride are different than the ones that are naturally created with no fluoride, and so there might be some debate about that, but all of them acknowledge that those bonds and the mineralization of the teeth is stronger with fluoride.

同样，可能有一些牙医会说，哦，氟化物形成的化学键与不含氟化物的自然形成的化学键不同，因此可能对此存在一些争议，但他们都承认氟化物的这些化学键和牙齿的矿化作用更强。

They understand and agree with the rationale even if they don't necessarily agree with the practice as the best practice.

他们理解并同意其基本原理，即使他们不一定同意该做法是最佳做法。

How much is fluoride in drinking water harming you?

饮用水中的氟化物对您的危害有多大？

Well, there two things you need to ask.

嗯，有两件事你需要问。

One is, how much fluoride are you actually drinking?

一是，您实际上喝了多少氟化物？

Because it turns out, there's a tremendous range of fluoride concentrations in tap water depending on what city you live in.

因为事实证明，自来水中的氟化物浓度存在很大差异，具体取决于您居住的城市。

Now I did an entire episode of the Huberman Lab podcast about water.

现在我制作了一整集关于水的休伯曼实验室播客。

We talked about distilled water versus spring water, we talked about hydrogenated water, we talked about alkaline water, we talked about all of those things.

我们谈论了蒸馏水与泉水，我们谈论了氢化水，我们谈论了碱性水，我们谈论了所有这些事情。

And we did talk about fluoride.

我们确实讨论了氟化物。

And one of the key takeaways when you're thinking about fluoride in drinking water is to know that if fluoride concentrations in drinking water are too high or-- and this is a very important "or." Or you're consuming a lot of a particular water that contains even low levels of fluoride, well, there's the potential-- and again, I want to highlight the word potential here.

当您考虑饮用水中的氟化物时，关键要点之一是要知道饮用水中的氟化物浓度是否过高或——这是一个非常重要的“或”。或者你消耗了大量特定的水，其中氟化物含量甚至很低，那么，这是有潜力的——我想在这里强调一下“潜力”这个词。

I don't want to cause alarm-- that the fluoride is causing disruptions to thyroid hormone output, or on the receptor end-- in other words, disruptions to thyroid hormone metabolism and usage in the body.

我不想引起恐慌——氟化物会扰乱甲状腺激素的输出或受体末端——换句话说，扰乱体内甲状腺激素的代谢和使用。

OK, I want to be really clear here.

好吧，我想在这里说清楚。

I don't want people to think, oh, fluoride destroys your thyroid hormone.

我不想让人们认为，哦，氟化物会破坏你的甲状腺激素。

It's the dose that makes the poison.

这是产生毒药的剂量。

It depends on how much.

这取决于多少。

Now the Center for Disease Control have set a recommended level of 0.7 milligrams per liter-- 0.7 milligrams per liter of fluoride in drinking water as the level-- and here, I'm paraphrasing-- that can help prevent tooth decay and promote good oral health and that they have deemed safe.

现在，疾病控制中心已经设定了每升 0.7 毫克的建议水平——饮用水中氟化物的水平为每升 0.7 毫克——我在这里解释一下——这可以帮助预防蛀牙，促进良好的口腔健康，而且他们认为是安全的。

But if you want to know how much fluoride is in your drinking water, whether or not it is above, at, or below that value, you need to get your tap water tested.

但如果您想知道饮用水中的氟化物含量，无论其是否高于、等于或低于该值，您都需要对自来水进行检测。

Now fortunately, there are websites that can tell you how much fluoride is in your drinking water, and if you trust the data on those websites, you can simply put the city you live into one of those websites and you'll get the information back.

幸运的是，现在有一些网站可以告诉您饮用水中的氟化物含量，如果您信任这些网站上的数据，您只需将您居住的城市输入其中一个网站，您就会得到信息。

I'll provide a few links to those different websites in the show note captions for this episode.

我将在本集的节目注释标题中提供一些指向这些不同网站的链接。

We also provided those links in the show note captions for the episode on water.

我们还在关于水的剧集的节目注释标题中提供了这些链接。

And then you can see, are you adjusting the level of fluoride in your drinking water that's deemed safe, less than that value, or more than that value?

然后您可以看到，您是否正在调整饮用水中被认为安全的氟化物含量，低于该值，还是高于该值？

But keep in mind, that if you drink a little bit, a moderate amount, or a lot of fluoridated drinking water, you're going to be consuming either more or less fluoride.

但请记住，如果您喝一点、适量或大量氟化饮用水，您就会消耗更多或更少的氟化物。

Just because there's a concentration that's been deemed safe by the Center for Disease Control does not actually tell you whether or not OK if you're drinking half-a-gallon of tap water a day versus a gallon versus just a couple of cups, whether or not you are in that safe zone.

仅仅因为疾病控制中心认为安全的浓度实际上并不能告诉你，如果你每天喝半加仑自来水、一加仑水或只喝几杯水是否可以，无论你是否处于安全区。

And of course, this is going to vary by body weight.

当然，这会因体重而异。

If you're a small child, those lower levels of fluoride are going to equate to a larger total amount of fluoride as seen by the volume of the body.

如果您是小孩，那么从身体体积来看，较低水平的氟化物将相当于较高的氟化物总量。

If you think about this, everything's by body weight volume and this is why drug dosages are most typically calculated as a function of pounds or kilograms of body weight.

如果你想一想，一切都是按体重体积计算的，这就是为什么药物剂量通常根据磅或公斤体重来计算。

Not everybody gets the same dose of every drug.

并非每个人都获得相同剂量的每种药物。

And if you're a very large person, maybe you can tolerate more fluoride.

如果您体型很大，也许您可​​以忍受更多的氟化物。

As I mentioned before, high levels of fluoride have been shown to disrupt thyroid metabolism.

正如我之前提到的，高浓度的氟化物已被证明会扰乱甲状腺代谢。

It has also been hypothesized-- again, this is still highly debated-- hypothesized to be neurotoxic under certain conditions-- that is, toxic to neurons.

它还被假设——同样，这仍然受到高度争议——假设在某些条件下具有神经毒性——即对神经元有毒。

It can kill neurons at certain concentrations, not necessarily the concentrations present in your drinking water.

它可以在一定浓度下杀死神经元，但不一定是饮用水中存在的浓度。

A lot of the evidence that fluoride is neurotoxic is from so-called in vitro studies-- so studies done effectively in a dish, although there is some in vivo evidence that it can cause a neurotoxicity-- a.k.a., neurodegeneration.

许多证明氟化物具有神经毒性的证据都来自所谓的体外研究——因此研究是在培养皿中有效完成的，尽管有一些体内证据表明氟化物可能导致神经毒性——又名神经变性。

So I think when it comes to the topic of fluoride, people tend to bin out into not concerned and simply want fluoride to strengthen their teeth.

所以我认为，当谈到氟化物的话题时，人们往往不关心，只是希望氟化物能够强化牙齿。

Mildly concerned, keeping an eye on this stuff.

有点担心，关注这个东西。

OK, fluoride doesn't sound great for me, but as long as the concentrations aren't too high, people will say, I've been drinking tap water my whole life and I feel great know my teeth are strong and my brain works and my thyroid seems fine.

好吧，氟化物对我来说听起来不太好，但只要浓度不太高，人们就会说，我一生都在喝自来水，我感觉很好，因为我的牙齿很坚固，我的大脑工作正常，我的甲状腺看起来很好。

OK.

好的。

And then people who are very, very concerned about fluoride at any concentration in their drinking water, hence the lawsuit in California-- and other lawsuits around the country.

然后，人们非常非常担心饮用水中任何浓度的氟化物，因此加利福尼亚州提起诉讼，以及全国各地的其他诉讼。

So I believe that when we're talking about fluoride, you really need to think about the dosages and you need to ask yourself, which one of those three categories you fall into?

所以我相信，当我们谈论氟化物时，您确实需要考虑剂量，并且需要问自己，您属于这三类中的哪一类？

Now if you are concerned about fluoride, it does not necessarily mean that you can't drink tap water.

现在，如果您担心氟化物，并不一定意味着您不能饮用自来水。

The suggestion simply would be to filter that tap water.

建议只是过滤自来水。

And during the episode I did on water, I talked about a number of different filtration approaches.

在我关于水的那一集中，我谈到了许多不同的过滤方法。

Many of those filters will filter out fluoride and you can simply look up "water filters that eliminate or reduce fluoride."

许多过滤器都会过滤掉氟化物，您只需查找“消除或减少氟化物的水过滤器”即可。

And then some people have enough disposable income and/or are concerned enough about fluoride in their drinking water that they will purchase or create very extensive, very thorough filtration systems to completely eliminate fluoride from their drinking water.

然后，有些人有足够的可支配收入和/或对饮用水中的氟化物有足够的关注，他们会购买或创建非常广泛、非常彻底的过滤系统，以完全消除饮用水中的氟化物。

So you'll find different ranges of concern.

所以你会发现不同范围的关注点。

Again, aside from the data of high fluoride levels being disruptive to thyroid hormone pathways and possibly neurotoxic, I personally am somebody who filters the drinking water I consume out of the tap unless, that is, I'm going to boil water with it for making things like loose leaf yerba mate, which is one of my favorite drinks, although lately I drink this cold brew Mateina Yerba Mate, which, by the way, is made with purified water and no fluoride and so on and so forth.

再说一次，除了高氟化物水平会破坏甲状腺激素途径并可能具有神经毒性的数据之外，我个人是一个从水龙头中过滤掉我消耗的饮用水的人，除非，也就是说，我要用它来煮水来制作散叶马黛茶之类的东西，这是我最喜欢的饮料之一，尽管最近我喝了这种冷泡马黛娜马黛茶，顺便说一句，它是用纯净水制成的，不含氟化物等等。

But if I'm making rice or I'm making pasta or I'm making oatmeal and I need to use tap water, I don't worry about removing the fluoride from that water.

但如果我正在做米饭或我正在做面食或我正在做燕麦片并且我需要使用自来水，我不担心从水中去除氟化物。

However, if I'm going to drink water, if I'm going to mix an electrolyte pack in or just drink a glass of water or go out on a hike and take some water with me, I do use a water filter, either a filter that fills from the top and then seeps down and the ones you put in the refrigerator, or--

然而，如果我要喝水，如果我要混合电解质包，或者只是喝一杯水，或者出去远足并随身携带一些水，我会使用水过滤器，要么是从顶部填充然后向下渗透的过滤器，要么是你放入冰箱的过滤器，或者--

And I recently purchased a whole house filter for the drinking water taps in my house so that it does remove all the fluoride and removes some other contaminants as well.

我最近为我家的饮用水水龙头购买了一个全屋过滤器，这样它就能去除所有氟化物并去除一些其他污染物。

So it's going to depend on your level of concern and it's going to depend on your disposable income and any number of other things.

因此，这将取决于您的关注程度、您的可支配收入和许多其他因素。

And I must say that every once in a while, I'll drink a little bit of tap water out of the tap without any concern about filtering the fluoride.

我必须说，每隔一段时间，我就会喝一点水龙头里的自来水，而不用担心过滤氟化物。

I'm not somebody who gets hyper-concerned about these things, but I do understand why some people do get hyper-concerned about these things, especially people who've read up on fluoride and some of the health concerns of consuming too much fluoride.

我不是一个对这些事情过度关注的人，但我确实理解为什么有些人确实对这些事情过度关注，尤其是那些读过氟化物以及摄入过多氟化物的一些健康问题的人。

Because I also find it very logical and understandable that as people learn more about how a particular substance might be harming their brain or bodily health, that they will become more concerned about consuming that substance.

因为我还发现，随着人们更多地了解某种特定物质可能如何损害他们的大脑或身体健康，他们会变得更加担心食用该物质，这是非常合乎逻辑和可以理解的。

It just stands to reason.

这是有道理的。

So what am I suggesting?

那么我有什么建议呢？

I suggest that you figure out how much fluoride is in your tap water.

我建议您计算出自来水中的氟化物含量。

I suggest that you then make a decision as to whether or not to filter that water or not before drinking it.

我建议您在饮用之前决定是否过滤水。

And then, of course, you have to make a decision about what sort of financial investment you're willing to make to filter that water.

然后，当然，您必须决定愿意进行何种财务投资来过滤水。

You can find a list of different price ranges of water filters in the show note captions in the water episode.

您可以在水剧集的节目注释标题中找到不同价格范围的滤水器列表。

You may also want to watch that episode and go to that timestamp.

您可能还想观看该剧集并转到该时间戳。

And there's an enormous range there.

那里有一个巨大的范围。

I want to be very clear, I don't have a financial relationship to any of those filtration mechanisms.

我想澄清的是，我与任何这些过滤机制都没有财务关系。

Again, some people have zero dollars to devote to that process of taking the fluoride out of their water and other contaminants, some people have many, many tens of thousands of dollars, so it really just depends on your disposable income and your level of concern.

同样，有些人的资金为零，用于从水中和其他污染物中去除氟化物，有些人则有数万美元，所以这实际上取决于您的可支配收入和您的关注程度。

But if you were to ask me, I would say, yeah, I think given that the cost of most of the filters that can remove most of the fluoride is low and given that there is some health concern of consuming too much fluoride, why not just remove fluoride from the drinking water?

但如果你问我，我会说，是的，我认为考虑到大多数可以去除大部分氟化物的过滤器的成本很低，并且考虑到消耗过多氟化物会带来一些健康问题，为什么不直接从饮用水中去除氟化物呢？

And then if you say, well, won't that weaken my teeth?

然后如果你说，好吧，这不会削弱我的牙齿吗？

Then I would say, well, watch the episode that's soon to come out on oral health because it's going to explain a lot of approaches, including fluoride-containing toothpaste, but some other non-fluoride-containing toothpaste and other things that one can do that the community of professionally-trained dentists all agree can really help improve the mineralization state of your teeth, and indeed, can fill in cavities that have begun to form but haven't yet made it to the deeper layers of your teeth and on and on.

然后我会说，好吧，观看即将推出的有关口腔健康的节目，因为它将解释很多方法，包括含氟牙膏，但其他一些不含氟化物的牙膏以及其他一些人们可以做的事情，经过专业培训的牙医社区都同意可以真正帮助改善牙齿的矿化状态，而且确实可以填充已经开始形成但尚未进入牙齿更深层的蛀牙，以及上。

Now I do have a brief story about fluoride that I'd be remiss if I didn't tell you, which essentially shows that fluoride is designed to strengthen teeth, but is also indeed a poison.

现在我确实有一个关于氟化物的简短故事，如果我不告诉你，那就是我的失职，这从本质上表明氟化物旨在强化牙齿，但也确实是一种毒物。

So when I was a kid, I had a lot of dental issues.

所以当我还是个孩子的时候，我就有很多牙齿问题。

I didn't consume much sugar.

我没有吃太多糖。

My mother, fortunately, was good about not letting us consume too much sugar.

幸运的是，我的母亲很善于不让我们摄入过多的糖。

But for whatever reason, my mouth was kind of a mess.

但不知为何，我的嘴有点乱。

I'd brush, I'd floss, I would do all these things, but I actually had my adult teeth come in behind my baby teeth, so it didn't push out my baby teeth.

我会刷牙，我会用牙线，我会做所有这些事情，但实际上我的恒牙长在乳牙后面，所以它不会推出我的乳牙。

So not only did I not collect from the Tooth Fairy, which I only recently discovered isn't real, but how would I know?

所以我不仅没有从牙仙那里收集，我最近才发现它不是真的，而且我怎么知道呢？

Because the Tooth Fairy never showed up, because all of my adult teeth came in behind my baby teeth.

因为牙仙从来没有出现过，因为我所有的恒牙都长在乳牙后面。

So I had to have all of my baby teeth pulled on the top.

所以我不得不把我所有的乳牙都拔到上面。

So I did not have a good relationship to the dentist as a location or a person.

所以我和牙医无论是地点还是人都没有很好的关系。

In fact, they had to tell me not to bite the dentist.

事实上，他们不得不告诉我不要咬牙医。

By the way, I haven't bitten a dentist in a long time, so hopefully my dentist, if watching this, is not too concerned.

顺便说一句，我已经很长时间没有咬牙医了，所以希望我的牙医看到这个后不会太担心。

I do get twice-a-year cleanings.

我每年做两次清洁工作。

I think every dentist agrees, that's a good thing to do.

我想每个牙医都同意，这是一件好事。

Some people may need less, some people may need more.

有些人可能需要更少，有些人可能需要更多。

But how do you know?

但你怎么知道呢？

You need to go to a dentist to find out.

您需要去看牙医才能找到答案。

Back to the story about fluoride.

回到关于氟化物的故事。

I started going to the dentist quite a bit because of all these dental issues that I had as a kid.

由于我小时候有过这些牙齿问题，我开始经常去看牙医。

And what they used to do-- I don't know if they do this anymore, but what they used to do is they give you these little trays, which are like mouth guards that you would use for boxing or hockey so your teeth don't get knocked out.

他们过去常做的事——我不知道他们是否还会这样做，但他们过去常做的就是给你这些小托盘，就像你打拳击或曲棍球时用的护齿套，这样你的牙齿就不会被打掉。

And they would fill those trays with this jelly-like stuff that contained fluoride, and they put it on a top and on the bottom.

他们会用这种含有氟化物的果冻状物质填充这些托盘，然后将其放在顶部和底部。

And the stuff just-- oh.

这些东西只是——哦。

Little bits of it would seep onto your tongue and your throat and it was so sour, it was so awful.

一点点的东西会渗到你的舌头和喉咙里，太酸了，太难受了。

And they'd seat me in this little wicker chair in front of a television and turn on cartoons as if that was supposed to make me forget how awful the whole experience was.

他们会让我坐在电视机前的小藤椅上，然后打开动画片，好像这能让我忘记整个经历是多么糟糕。

If anything, it probably just created a Pavlovian-conditioned response to hate cartoons, which I suppose did not work because I liked cartoons then.

如果说有什么不同的话，那就是它可能只是对讨厌的卡通产生了巴甫洛夫条件反射，我想这不起作用，因为我当时喜欢卡通。

I don't watch them now.

我现在不看他们了。

Truly, I don't watch them now.

说实话，我现在不看他们了。

So I sit down on this wicker chair.

于是我就坐到了这张藤椅上。

I've got the fluoride in my teeth with these two trays and I'm just hating this whole process.

我的牙齿里有这两个托盘的氟化物，我只是讨厌这整个过程。

I think I must have been about five or six years old.

我想我那时大概五六岁吧。

So I decide, in my infinite wisdom, to just swallow all the fluoride paste.

所以我决定，以我无限的智慧，吞下所有的氟化物糊剂。

So I start sucking it down through these mouth guards.

所以我开始通过这些护齿器把它吸下去。

I can feel it going back into my throat, and it's sour and it's stinging and it's awful, but I'm thinking, OK, I'm just going to do this.

我能感觉到它又回到我的喉咙里，又酸又刺痛，很糟糕，但我在想，好吧，我就这么做。

And I'm going to sit there I'm basically going to-- I'm going to beat the test.

我会坐在那里，我基本上会——我会通过测试。

And so I drink all this fluoride paste.

所以我喝了所有这些氟化物糊剂。

And then, of course, I got immensely sick within about three minutes.

然后，当然，大约三分钟内我就病得很厉害。

I stood up, I turned around, and puked all over the wicker chair.

我站起来，转身，把藤椅吐了一身。

I think that was deliberate.

我认为这是故意的。

Actually looking back, it was deliberate.

其实回头一看，是故意的。

And puked all over the wicker chair.

还吐遍了藤椅。

My mom comes running in.

我妈妈跑进来。

What happened, what did you do to him?

发生了什么事，你对他做了什么？

She was very protective of me.

她非常保护我。

Thanks, mom.

谢谢，妈妈。

What did you do to him?

你对他做了什么？

And then I said, I just swallowed the stuff.

然后我说，我刚刚吞下了这些东西。

They wanted to do it again and I stopped doing the fluoride treatment at that point.

他们想再做一次，我当时就停止了氟化物治疗。

Why did I vomit?

我为什么呕吐？

Well, I vomited because fluoride is, indeed, a poison at high concentrations.

好吧，我吐了，因为氟化物在高浓度下确实是一种毒物。

Now do I tell you that story to make you afraid of giving your kids fluoridated toothpaste or fluoridated water?

现在我告诉你这个故事是为了让你害怕给你的孩子使用氟化牙膏或氟化水吗？

No. By all means, do what you think is best for you and for your children.

不。无论如何，做您认为对您和您的孩子最有利的事情。

For me, however, I've made some effort to avoid fluoride toothpaste.

然而，对我来说，我已经尽力避免使用含氟牙膏。

I do go to the dentist, as I mentioned, about once a year.

正如我提到的，我大约每年去看一次牙医。

I confess, during the pandemic, it was probably less as they were busy and it was hard to schedule, et cetera.

我承认，在大流行期间，可能会少一些，因为他们很忙，很难安排等等。

I've had very, very few cavities in my adult life.

在我的成年生活中，蛀牙非常非常少。

Hardly any.

几乎没有。

And my gum health is very strong, et cetera, et cetera, largely through taking on protocols that I'm going to describe in the oral health episode and that were recommended to me by friends who are both dentists and other friends who are periodontists because again, there are a lot of things that we can do to strengthen our teeth in natural ways by building up those hydroxyapatite bonds, which are the natural bonds that teeth form, and yes, believe it or not, being able to reverse some early-formed cavities as long as they haven't made it deep into the tooth.

我的牙龈健康状况非常好，等等，很大程度上是通过采取我将在口腔健康章节中描述的方案，这些方案是由牙医朋友和其他牙周病医生朋友向我推荐的，因为我们可以做很多事情，通过建立羟基磷灰石键，以自然的方式强化我们的牙齿，羟基磷灰石键是牙齿形成的天然键，是的，不管你信不信，能够逆转一些早期形成的蛀牙只要它们没有深入牙齿。

Also things like using a soft toothbrush because if you brush too hard, if you take that approach, you're going to brush your teeth really hard, get them really, really clean, yes, you'll scrape off all the biofilm, you'll avoid tartar build up, but you can really cause some tenting of the gum tissue above the teeth and those little recesses back in there are where bacteria get in.

还有像使用软牙刷这样的事情，因为如果你刷得太用力，如果你采取这种方法，你会非常用力地刷牙，让它们真正非常干净，是的，你会刮掉所有的生物膜，你会避免牙垢积聚，但你确实会导致牙齿上方的牙龈组织出现一些隆起，而后面的那些小凹槽是细菌进入的地方。

And there's now a lot of really strong evidence showing that some of that bacteria can translate into cardiac disease, can translate into metabolic disease, and maybe even into some neurologic disease.

现在有很多强有力的证据表明，其中一些细菌可以转化为心脏病，可以转化为代谢疾病，甚至可能转化为某些神经系统疾病。

So it's serious stuff.

所以这是严肃的事情。

Oral health is one of the most important areas of health and it's one of the most overlooked areas of oral health, and I think people generally fall into two categories.

口腔健康是最重要的健康领域之一，也是最容易被忽视的口腔健康领域之一，我认为人们通常分为两类。

And I'll use these two categories to frame up the episode on oral health that's coming.

我将使用这两个类别来构建即将推出的有关口腔健康的剧集。

One category of person seems really bullish on their oral health.

一类人似乎非常看好自己的口腔健康。

They're like, keep my teeth white and clean and they floss and brush twice a day every day, and they use tooth whiteners and mouthwash and all those things.

他们就像，保持我的牙齿洁白干净，他们每天使用牙线和刷牙两次，他们使用牙齿美白剂和漱口水等等。

And the other category is blasé about it.

而另一类人则对此感到厌倦。

Yeah, I brush my teeth in the morning so that my breath doesn't kill every person I get into an interaction with and so on and so forth.

是的，我早上刷牙，这样我的呼吸就不会杀死我与之互动的每个人等等。

But in reality, both the group of people that are doing an immense number of things to try and keep their teeth white and their breath fresh are, yes, doing things that are good for their oral health, but also no doubt damaging their oral health, in particular, the oral microbiome, which is absolutely critical.

但实际上，这群人正在做大量的事情来尝试保持牙齿洁白和口气清新，是的，他们所做的事情对他们的口腔健康有益，但无疑也损害了他们的口腔健康，特别是口腔微生物群，这绝对是至关重要的。

And then of course, the other category of people that are neglecting their oral hygiene and are not taking mouthwashes and things like that are also damaging their oral health, but in different ways.

当然，另一类忽视口腔卫生、不使用漱口水之类的人也会损害他们的口腔健康，但方式不同。

So during the episode on oral health, I'll spell out all the things that you can do, most of which, by the way, are completely zero-cost.

因此，在有关口腔健康的节目中，我将详细说明您可以做的所有事情，顺便说一下，其中大部分都是完全零成本的。

Many of them actually will save you money, both in the short- and long-term, and can really help you improve your oral microbiome, the strength of your teeth, and reduce the number of cavities, maybe even reverse cavities that have begun to form and are not too deep into the tooth yet.

其中许多实际上可以为您省钱，无论是短期还是长期，并且可以真正帮助您改善口腔微生物组、牙齿强度、减少蛀牙数量，甚至可能逆转已经开始形成但尚未深入牙齿的蛀牙。

And in a really nice way, all of that independent of your stance on fluoride.

以一种非常好的方式，所有这些都与您对氟化物的立场无关。

OK, the next question is about the vagus nerve.

好的，下一个问题是关于迷走神经的。

By the way, the vagus nerve is the 10th cranial nerve that basically leaves an area right around the region of the neck, involves something called the nodose ganglion.

顺便说一句，迷走神经是第十脑神经，基本上离开颈部周围的区域，涉及称为结节神经节的东西。

Pretty cool name.

很酷的名字。

And then goes down and extensively innervates the organs of the body.

然后下降并广泛地支配身体的器官。

The heart, the lungs, the liver, the viscera.

心、肺、肝、内脏。

Even some of the musculature around them is influenced by the vagus nerve.

甚至他们周围的一些肌肉组织也受到迷走神经的影响。

And then there are also vagal nerve pathways that go back from those organs up to the brainstem and can influence higher brain centers.

然后还有迷走神经通路从这些器官返回到脑干，可以影响更高的大脑中枢。

Now that means that the vagus nerve, despite its name suggesting it's a nerve, like a single fiber bundle of axons, the wires that come from neurons is actually a superhighway.

现在这意味着迷走神经，尽管它的名字表明它是一种神经，就像轴突的单纤维束一样，来自神经元的电线实际上是一条高速公路。

And it's a very divergent and convergent superhighway of nerve pathways.

这是一条非常发散又汇聚的神经通路高速公路。

In fact, the word "vagus" means essentially "vagabond" or "to wander."

事实上，“vagus”这个词本质上意味着“流浪者”或“徘徊”。

Because when early neuroanatomists started to chart the neural connections from the brain stem into the body and from the body back to the brain, they saw that it was this extensive superhighway, hence the word "vagabond," hence the name "vagus."

因为当早期的神经解剖学家开始绘制从脑干到身体以及从身体回到大脑的神经连接时，他们发现这是一条广阔的高速公路，因此有了“流浪者”这个词，也因此得名“迷走神经”。

Now, the vagus nerve has been described gust prominently in pop psychology and popular wellness circles.

现在，迷走神经在流行心理学和大众健康圈中被广泛地描述为“阵风”。

So much so that it's generally believed that the vagus nerve is responsible for calming the body and the brain down.

以至于人们普遍认为迷走神经负责使身体和大脑平静下来。

And the reality is, that is not true.

但事实是，事实并非如此。

It's simply not true.

这根本不是真的。

There are conditions under which vagal nerve stimulation, either by electrical current or through specific breathing techniques that I'll talk about in a moment, or through other modalities such as pressure massage can cause a calming or a parasympathetic response.

在某些情况下，通过电流或通过我稍后将讨论的特定呼吸技术或通过压力按摩等其他方式进行的迷走神经刺激可以引起镇静或副交感神经反应。

But, get this-- anytime someone tells you that vagal nerve stimulation or activating the vagus will calm you down, you just tell them, really?

但是，明白这一点——任何时候有人告诉你刺激迷走神经或激活迷走神经会让你平静下来，你就告诉他们，真的吗？

Well, then, why is it that neurobiologists with laboratories use vagal nerve stimulation as a way to try and create more arousal and alertness-- that is, elevated activation of the sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system, the one that's sometimes called the fight or flight arm of the autonomic nervous system, although that's a bit too simplistic a name-- in order to try and alleviate depression or in order to try and wake up experimental animals or people undergoing neurosurgery who are drifting toward a coma state?

那么，为什么实验室的神经生物学家使用迷走神经刺激作为一种尝试创造更多唤醒和警觉性的方法——也就是说，提高自主神经系统交感神经臂的激活，有时被称为自主神经系统的“战斗或逃跑臂”，尽管这个名字有点过于简单化——为了尝试减轻抑郁症，或者为了尝试唤醒正在漂流的实验动物或接受神经外科手术的人走向昏迷状态？

So the reality is that vagal nerve stimulation is not, quote unquote, "calming." The reality is that depending on which pathway, what neuroanatomists call which aspect or which branch of the vagus nerve is stimulated and how it stimulated, you can either get an elevation in alertness, maybe even an anxiety, or a decrement in alertness and an increase in calm.

因此，现实情况是，迷走神经刺激并不能“镇静”。现实情况是，根据神经解剖学家所说的迷走神经的哪个方面或哪个分支受到刺激以及刺激的方式，您可能会提高警觉性，甚至可能感到焦虑，或者降低警觉性并增加平静感。

Now I feel very passionate about this topic because as a public educator with my major background in neuroscience, it can be frustrating when people try to oversell the vagus-- or oversell any brain structure or neural circuit as doing just one thing.

现在我对这个话题非常感兴趣，因为作为一名拥有神经科学专业背景的公共教育者，当人们试图过度吹嘘迷走神经，或者过度吹嘘任何大脑结构或神经回路只做一件事时，这可能会令人沮丧。

But, I must say, that by and large, I am a fan of most of the practices and most of the knowledge that's been put forth by others in the domain of vagal nerve activation for sake of calming people down or for reducing anxiety.

但是，我必须说，总的来说，我很喜欢其他人在迷走神经激活领域提出的大多数实践和知识，这些实践和知识是为了让人们平静下来或减少焦虑。

Now how can I say that based on what I just said a couple of minutes ago?

现在，根据我几分钟前所说的话，我该怎么说呢？

Well, I think it's important, of course, to be accurate, but rarely are we able to be both accurate and exhaustive about what any given brain structure or neural pathway does, especially when speaking to the general public.

嗯，我认为准确当然很重要，但我们很少能够准确而详尽地了解任何给定的大脑结构或神经通路的作用，特别是在与公众交谈时。

Now on the Huberman Lab podcast, I try to be as exhaustive as possible and offer as many caveats and disclaimers as possible to try and give the information in the most concise, and yet at the same time, accurate, exhaustive way, but I do understand why people have put forth the vagus as a calming tool.

现在，在休伯曼实验室播客上，我尝试尽可能详尽，并提供尽可能多的警告和免责声明，试图以最简洁、同时又准确、详尽的方式提供信息，但我确实理解为什么人们把迷走神经作为一种镇静工具。

OK, I get it.

好的，我明白了。

And there are ways to calm yourself down through at least partial activation of the vagus nerve.

有一些方法可以通过至少部分激活迷走神经来让自己平静下来。

So let's talk about a couple of those methods because I think most people listening to this are probably thinking, OK, how do I calm myself down using my vagus nerve?

所以让我们来谈谈其中的一些方法，因为我认为大多数听这个的人可能会想，好吧，我如何利用我的迷走神经让自己平静下来？

Well, one of the better-established ways to do that is to take advantage of the fact that the vagus nerve interacts with some of the diaphragmatic pathways related to breathing.

嗯，更成熟的方法之一是利用迷走神经与一些与呼吸相关的膈肌通路相互作用的事实。

Now if you've heard me talk about breathing on the Huberman Lab podcast or other podcasts before, what you'll immediately remember is that any time we emphasize the duration and the intensity of our exhales and we do it deliberately, we are going to slow our heart rate down.

现在，如果您之前在休伯曼实验室播客或其他播客上听过我谈论呼吸，您会立即记住的是，每当我们强调呼气的持续时间和强度并且我们故意这样做时，我们就会减慢我们的心率。

And that's through a different nerve pathway called the phrenic nerve, a spinal nerve, that innervates the diaphragm.

这是通过一种不同的神经通路，称为膈神经，一种脊神经，支配膈肌。

The diaphragm is this muscle within the body that basically moves up or down depending on whether or not you're breathing in or you're breathing out.

横膈膜是体内的这种肌肉，它基本上根据您是否吸气或呼气而上下移动。

There are many ways to activate the diaphragm through the phrenic nerve, but if you want to know where your diaphragm is and how it works, simply take an inhale through your nose and let your stomach, your belly, extend outward while you do that.

通过膈神经激活横膈膜的方法有很多，但如果你想知道横膈膜在哪里以及它是如何工作的，只需通过鼻子吸气，然后让你的胃、腹部向外伸展即可。

You can try that right now.

你现在就可以尝试一下。

You can inhale and let your belly go out, and then exhale, belly goes in.

你可以吸气，让腹部出去，然后呼气，腹部进去。

So that's, no doubt, including your diaphragm, so-called diaphragmatic breathing.

所以，毫无疑问，包括你的横膈膜，即所谓的横膈膜呼吸。

Now you could also do it the other way.

现在你也可以用另一种方式来做。

You can inhale and bring your stomach in.

你可以吸气并把你的胃带进去。

Exhale and bring your stomach out.

呼气并把你的胃拿出来。

That will also involve the diaphragm, but not as efficiently as letting your belly extend out a bit as you inhale.

这也会涉及到横膈膜，但不如吸气时让腹部稍微伸展那么有效。

So one way to quickly calm down, if you're feeling too much anxiety, alertness, or stress, is to just deliberately do an exhale through the mouth or nose, whereby your stomach moves outward.

因此，如果您感到过于焦虑、警觉或压力，快速平静下来的一种方法就是故意通过嘴或鼻子呼气，从而让您的胃向外移动。

Now, again, that's accomplished by phrenic nerve-- by the way, spelled P-H-R-E-N-I-C-- phrenic nerve activation of the diaphragm, it will slow your heart down by virtue of some changes in the volume of your heart, the speed at which blood is pumping through your heart, et cetera.

现在，这又是由膈神经完成的——顺便说一下，拼写为 P-H-R-E-N-I-C——膈神经激活膈肌，它会通过心脏体积、血液流过心脏的速度等的一些变化来减慢你的心跳速度。

I've talked about this on other podcasts, so I won't get into the details now.

我已经在其他播客上讨论过这个问题，所以现在不再赘述。

The fastest way that I'm aware of to calm down is to do the so-called physiological sigh.

据我所知，最快的冷静方法就是所谓的生理叹息。

Many of you have heard of this before because I've spoken about it before.

你们中的许多人以前都听说过这一点，因为我之前已经谈过它。

I didn't discover this, but it's a remarkable circuit built into your phrenic nerve pathway that will also trigger activation of the vagus nerve, which is what we're talking about now.

我没有发现这一点，但它是膈神经通路中内置的一个非凡的电路，它也会触发迷走神经的激活，这就是我们现在讨论的。

The physiological sigh is a big, deep Inhale through your nose, then a second sharp, fast inhale to maximally inflate your lungs, and then a long two lungs empty exhale through the mouth.

生理叹息是通过鼻子深深地吸气，然后第二次急剧地快速吸气，使肺部最大限度地膨胀，然后通过嘴进行长长的两肺空呼气。

So this is performed in the following way.

因此，这是通过以下方式执行的。

OK, that's the fastest way to bring your heart rate down, to calm down.

好吧，这是降低心率、平静下来的最快方法。

It works very fast in real-time.

它实时运行速度非常快。

You might not even need to repeat it.

您甚至可能不需要重复它。

Some people just achieve dramatic levels of calming very fast through one physiological sigh.

有些人通过一声生理叹息就能很快达到惊人的平静程度。

Now what you didn't see and what relates to this discussion about the vagus nerve is that underneath my shirt, I was making very certain to make my belly extend-- go outward, that is, as I did those two inhales.

现在你没有看到的是，与这次关于迷走神经的讨论相关的是，在我的衬衫下面，我非常确定地让我的腹部伸展——向外，也就是说，就像我做那两次吸气一样。

So as I do the inhale, my stomach is moving out.

所以当我吸气时，我的胃正在向外移动。

Second inhale, my stomach moves out a little bit more, and then-- the exhale the stomach moves back in.

第二次吸气，我的胃又向外移动一点，然后——呼气时，胃又向内移动。

That's through that phrenic nerve innervation of the diaphragm, which then relates to slowing of the heart through a couple of different stations.

这是通过隔膜的膈神经支配，然后通过几个不同的站点与心脏减慢相关。

So here, what I'm saying is the fastest way to calm down in real time is indeed the physiological sigh, but if you want to make that even more effective, you'll recruit the vagal nerve pathway, which can be, at least to my knowledge, best accomplished by making sure that your stomach is moving out while you do the two inhales, and certainly the first inhale, and then when you do the exhale, two lungs empty through the mouth at the end, the stomach is moving in.

所以在这里，我所说的实时平静下来的最快方法确实是生理叹息，但如果你想让它更有效，你会招募迷走神经通路，至少据我所知，最好的方法是确保你的胃在你做两次吸气时向外移动，当然是第一次吸气，然后当你呼气时，最后两个肺通过嘴排空，胃向内移动。

Try it both ways.

两种方法都尝试一下。

Do a physiological sigh where you don't pay any attention to whether or not your stomach is moving in or out-- or actually, you could do it in a way where your stomach is actually moving in while you do the inhales, and then do a second physiological sigh where you're paying specific attention to making sure that your stomach moves out during the inhales and back in as you exhale.

做一次生理性叹息，你不关心你的胃是否在向内或向外移动——或者实际上，你可以以一种在你吸气时你的胃实际上向内移动的方式来做，然后做第二次生理性叹息，你要特别注意确保你的胃在吸气时移出并在呼气时返回。

We'll take a little attention to doing this.

我们会稍微注意一下这样做。

And what you'll notice is that you'll calm down to a much greater degree when you are certain to get that vagal nerve activation, or what I really should say, because we're being technical here, vagal nerve activation related to diaphragmatic breathing, that's going to calm you down even more than a physiological sigh would if it were done in the reverse way where the inhales are making your stomach move in.

你会注意到，当你确定迷走神经激活时，你会在更大程度上平静下来，或者我真正应该说的是，因为我们在这里是技术性的，迷走神经激活与横膈膜呼吸相关，如果以与吸气使你的胃部移动的相反方式进行，这比生理叹息更能让你平静下来。

So I realize we're getting down into the weeds, but this is an AMA for premium subscribers and here's where you can really get the fine tweaks on some of the protocols that we talk about on the Huberman Lab podcast and make them, especially effective for you.

所以我意识到我们正在深入讨论，但这是针对高级订阅者的 AMA，在这里您可以真正对我们在 Huberman Lab 播客上讨论的一些协议进行微调，并使它们对您特别有效。

Now, as I mentioned earlier, the vagus nerve has a lot of different branches.

现在，正如我之前提到的，迷走神经有很多不同的分支。

Some of those branches can indeed cause calming.

其中一些分支确实可以让人平静。

Activation of those, for instance, can be accomplished through certain forms of organ massage.

例如，这些的激活可以通过某些形式的器官按摩来实现。

So for those of you that have explored some of the Eastern practices, there are certain organ-type massages where they will actually press on specific organs, and sometimes at two locations.

因此，对于那些探索过一些东方疗法的人来说，有一些器官类型的按摩，它们实际上会按压特定的器官，有时是在两个位置。

Some of that is done to benefit the organs directly.

其中一些是为了直接使器官受益。

That'll be a topic for a future podcast.

这将是未来播客的主题。

Some of it's done to transiently cut off blood flow pathways to particular organs then let that blood flow return.

其中一些是为了暂时切断流向特定器官的血流路径，然后让血流返回。

It's very interesting practices.

这是非常有趣的做法。

In my mind, still needs a lot more mechanistic understanding, but some interesting stuff there.

在我看来，仍然需要更多的机械理解，但其中有一些有趣的东西。

And then still, other aspects of organ massage are specifically to activate the vagus nerve.

此外，器官按摩的其他方面专门用于激活迷走神经。

Now unless you're a practitioner of those organ massage practices, I don't think that one can go in and just start pressing on their organs and learn to achieve the desired response.

现在，除非您是这些器官按摩实践的实践者，否则我认为人们无法进入并开始按压他们的器官并学习达到所需的反应。

I think it requires-- I know it requires some extensive training, but that is the rationale behind those organ massage approaches.

我认为这需要——我知道这需要一些广泛的培训，但这就是这些器官按摩方法背后的基本原理。

Now in addition to physiological sighs done with the diaphragmatic inhale triggering the extension-of-the-belly-type breathing, in addition to organ massage, there are other ways to activate the vagus that can induce a calming response.

现在，除了通过膈肌吸气触发腹部伸展式呼吸进行的生理叹息之外，除了器官按摩之外，还有其他方法可以激活迷走神经，从而引起镇静反应。

One of the more interesting ones, I find, is the humming response.

我发现，最有趣的之一是嗡嗡声响应。

There's actually growing interest in humming.

事实上，人们对哼唱的兴趣越来越浓厚。

James Nester has started to talk about this-- James Nester, of course, being the author of the fabulous book Breath, which is a book I highly recommend if you haven't read.

詹姆斯·内斯特（James Nester）已经开始谈论这个——当然，詹姆斯·内斯特（James Nester）是一本精彩的书《呼吸》的作者，如果你还没有读过，我强烈推荐这本书。

It talks about the value of breathing in particular ways for physiological and psychological reasons, emphasizes nasal breathing whenever possible, et cetera.

它讨论了出于生理和心理原因而以特定方式呼吸的价值，强调尽可能用鼻呼吸等等。

But James more recently has been talking about humming.

但詹姆斯最近一直在谈论哼唱。

I think he talks about it a little bit in the book, but now he's talking about it more.

我认为他在书中谈论了一点，但现在他谈论得更多。

There's a growing body of research on humming.

关于嗡嗡声的研究越来越多。

Humming, it seems, can activate the release of certain things like nitric oxide, which is a vasodilator, allows more blood flow to various organs and tissues of the body.

嗡嗡声似乎可以激活某些物质的释放，例如一氧化氮，它是一种血管扩张剂，可以让更多的血液流向身体的各个器官和组织。

Humming, provided it's done at a low frequency, meaning you're not humming-- like up in your head, you're humming-- where you can actually feel the fluttering down into the body is thought to-- small amount of literature, but growing amount of literature, showing that it is thought to activate some of the vagal pathways associated with calming.

哼唱，只要它是以低频进行的，意味着你不是在哼唱——就像在你的头上，你在哼唱——你实际上可以感觉到颤动进入身体被认为是——少量的文献，但越来越多的文献表明，它被认为可以激活一些与平静相关的迷走神经通路。

Now, I want to be very clear, humming is not just activating the vagus, it's also an exhale.

现在，我想非常明确的是，哼唱不仅仅是激活迷走神经，它也是一种呼气。

Think about it.

想一想。

If you can hum while inhaling, I'm very impressed.

如果你能一边吸气一边哼哼，我就很感动了。

Actually, you should probably see a neurologist.

事实上，你可能应该去看神经科医生。

That was a joke.

那是个笑话。

I'm sure you're fine even if you can hum while inhaling.

即使你可以一边吸气一边哼哼，我相信你也没事。

But if you think about it, humming is actually a very low frequency, if it's done the way I'm talking about, a low-frequency slow exhale.

但如果你仔细想想，嗡嗡声实际上是一个非常低的频率，如果它按照我所说的方式进行，是一种低频的缓慢呼气。

So again, we're getting back to exhales, we're getting back to activation of the vagus through long exhale breathing-- in this case, humming, which is also associated with nitric oxide release.

所以，我们再次回到呼气，我们回到通过长呼气呼吸激活迷走神经——在这种情况下，嗡嗡声，这也与一氧化氮的释放有关。

Now are we talking about humming like you would hum a tune?

现在我们正在谈论像哼曲一样哼唱吗？

Maybe.

或许。

What we're really talking about is breathwork-style humming.

我们真正谈论的是呼吸式的哼唱。

I realize this is getting pretty esoteric, but here, we're talking about simply mechanical activation of neural pathways.

我意识到这变得非常深奥，但在这里，我们谈论的是神经通路的简单机械激活。

I want to be really clear about this.

我想澄清这一点。

Anytime you're talking about a biological or physiological effect-- you could even call it a biohack, even though that's a word I loathe, because I like mechanisms, not hacks.

每当你谈论生物或生理效应时，你甚至可以将其称为生物黑客，尽管我讨厌这个词，因为我喜欢机制，而不是黑客。

But anytime you're talking about a biological or physiological effect, especially in human physiology, you need to think, are we talking about a mechanical or a chemical stimulation or both?

但是，每当您谈论生物或生理效应时，尤其是在人类生理学中，您需要思考，我们是在谈论机械刺激还是化学刺激，还是两者兼而有之？

And when you're talking about humming or you're talking about long-exhale breathing, well, long-exhale breathing has a mechanical component.

当你谈论嗡嗡声或长呼气呼吸时，长呼气呼吸具有机械成分。

There's the moving out of the belly if you do it the way I described before.

如果你按照我之前描述的方式做，就会从腹部移动出来。

It also has a chemical component.

它还具有化学成分。

There's a exchange.

有一个交换。

There's a differential in the amount of oxygen versus carbon dioxide that you're offloading.

您排出的氧气量与二氧化碳量存在差异。

In fact, that long exhale out the end of the physiological sigh is to offload the maximum amount of carbon dioxide.

事实上，生理叹息结束时那长长的呼气是为了最大限度地排出二氧化碳。

Carbon dioxide some people will refer to as the gas in the bloodstream that makes you anxious.

有些人将二氧化碳称为血液中使您焦虑的气体。

That's not true.

那不是真的。

You need carbon dioxide in order to transport oxygen to your cells.

您需要二氧化碳才能将氧气输送到细胞。

So it's much more interesting than that, and we cover that in the episode on breathing.

所以它比这更有趣，我们在呼吸这一集中介绍了这一点。

But the point is that if you hear humming in order to activate the vagus nerve in a way that induces more calm, more parasympathetic activation, your first question should be, OK, is that mechanical or is it chemical or both?

但重点是，如果你听到嗡嗡声是为了激活迷走神经，从而引起更平静、更多的副交感神经激活，你的第一个问题应该是，好吧，这是机械的还是化学的，或者两者兼而有之？

Well, in this case, it's probably mostly mechanical.

嗯，在这种情况下，它可能主要是机械的。

It's probably activation of the phrenic and the vagus innervation of the viscera, organs within the big body cavity-- or the big portion, excuse me, of your bodily cavity.

这可能是内脏的膈神经和迷走神经支配的激活，这些器官是大体腔内的器官——或者对不起，是你体腔的很大一部分。

And-- and mechanical stimulation there.

还有——还有机械刺激。

And it's also inducing-- and we know this to be true, that nitric oxide release that causes vasodilation.

它也会诱导——我们知道这是真的——一氧化氮的释放会导致血管舒张。

So a mechanical and a chemical aspect.

这是机械和化学方面的。

Now, these are very simple, zero-cost, immediately accessible tools for vagal activation for sake of calming.

现在，这些都是非常简单、零成本、可立即使用的工具，用于激活迷走神经以达到平静的目的。

There are, of course, devices now available for microstimulation of the vagus.

当然，现在有可用于迷走神经微刺激的设备。

This is being used to treat depression.

这被用来治疗抑郁症。

But why is it being used to treat depression?

但为什么它被用来治疗抑郁症呢？

Well, it's being used to treat depression of the sort that people feel underaroused, understimulated.

嗯，它被用来治疗那种让人感到性唤起不足、刺激不足的抑郁症。

Too tired, not looking forward to the future.

太累了，对未来没有憧憬。

And these people get a vagus nerve stimulator that when-- and these are remarkable studies, by the way.

这些人接受了迷走神经刺激器，顺便说一句，这些都是非凡的研究。

I'll provide a link to a story about one in the show note captions-- that when you crank up the level of stimulation, it's been observed that people who are in really deep, dark depths of depression will start to say, I feel better.

我将提供一个关于节目注释标题中的一个故事的链接——当你提高刺激水平时，据观察，那些处于真正深沉、黑暗的抑郁深处的人会开始说，我感觉好多了。

I can imagine a future in real-time.

我可以实时想象未来。

Now that is not because of excessive calming down.

现在这并不是因为过度冷静。

That's actually the opposite.

事实上恰恰相反。

It's taking people who are depressed, who have low levels of energy, who are feeling very unexcited, even suicidally depressed about the future, and increasing their level of alertness and optimism.

它帮助那些抑郁、精力不足、对未来感到非常不兴奋、甚至有自杀倾向的人，提高他们的警觉性和乐观程度。

It's a remarkable effect.

这是一个显着的效果。

Now the problem with some of those micro-stimulation treatments for the treatment of depression is that they have to be adjusted quite often-- and of course, requires the implantation of a micro-stimulation device.

现在，一些用于治疗抑郁症的微刺激疗法的问题是它们必须经常调整——当然，需要植入微刺激装置。

The other issue is that because the vagal nerve pathways are braided with and interdigitated with other neural pathways, and because of the huge number of neural pathways within the vagus, sometimes those people will experience excessive coughing or challenges swallowing, or they'll feel like they're getting constriction of the throat, and this is why all of that has to be done in coordination with a very well-trained neurosurgeon and psychiatrist.

另一个问题是，由于迷走神经通路与其他神经通路交织在一起，并且由于迷走神经内有大量的神经通路，有时这些人会经历过度咳嗽或吞咽困难，或者他们会感觉喉咙被收缩，这就是为什么所有这些都必须与训练有素的神经外科医生和精神科医生协调完成。

So there's a whole world to explore there, but it's a world that needs to be explored with licensed professionals.

因此，那里有一个完整的世界可供探索，但这是一个需要与有执照的专业人士一起探索的世界。

I do not recommend that people start buying vagal nerve stimulation devices commercially.

我不建议人们开始购买商业迷走神经刺激装置。

And even while there are some of those out there, the ones that work from outside the body are not going to be very good at targeting the specific branches of the vagus nerve that are going to be required for the treatment of depression.

即使有一些药物存在，那些在体外起作用的药物也不会很好地针对治疗抑郁症所需的迷走神经的特定分支。

So if we take a step back now, we can say a couple of things in short-order form.

因此，如果我们现在退一步，我们可以简单地说几件事。

One, the vagus nerve can cause both calming or increases in alertness.

第一，迷走神经可以使人平静或提高警觉性。

Two, there are mechanical and chemical consequences to stimulating certain branches of the vagus.

第二，刺激迷走神经的某些分支会产生机械和化学后果。

Long-exhale breathing, diaphragmatic breathing being two of them, humming being a third, all of which are zero-cost and easy to access.

长呼气呼吸、膈式呼吸是其中两种，嗡嗡声是第三种，所有这些都是零成本且易于获得的。

There's a whole landscape of micro stimulation devices used to stimulate the vagus in ways that increase alertness and can be used to treat depression.

有各种各样的微刺激装置用于刺激迷走神经，从而提高警觉性，并可用于治疗抑郁症。

Those can have side effects such as challenges with swallowing or coughing.

这些可能会产生副作用，例如吞咽或咳嗽困难。

And now there is a plethora of commercially-available devices that activate the vagus nerve in specific ways in order to achieve or try to achieve specific outcomes.

现在有大量市售设备可以以特定方式激活迷走神经，以实现或尝试实现特定结果。

And frankly, the science on most of those is rather scarce, but I promise, in a future episode of the Huberman Lab podcast, I'll do an episode all about commercially-available neurotech, by the way, with which we have no financial relationship-- I have no financial relationship-- just as a way to gauge whether or not these things work, what the rationale is for how they ought to work, and whether or not people are seeing success or even negative side effects with them.

坦率地说，其中大多数的科学知识相当稀缺，但我保证，在胡伯曼实验室播客的未来一集中，我将做一集关于商用神经技术的节目，顺便说一句，我们与它们没有财务关系——我没有财务关系——只是作为一种方式来衡量这些东西是否有效，它们应该如何工作的原理是什么，以及人们是否看到了成功，甚至是负面的副作用。

So I look forward to that episode.

所以我很期待那一集。

Meanwhile, the vagus nerve is so fascinating.

与此同时，迷走神经是如此迷人。

It's this super highway in you, in me and it has oh-so-many interesting effects.

这是你我身上的高速公路，它有很多有趣的效果。

And before I close out on the vagus nerve, I'll just tell you about one effect that is very relevant for everybody, which is, as you recall earlier, the vagus nerve doesn't just consists of nerve pathways from the brainstem out to the organs of the body, but also back from the organs to the brain itself.

在我结束迷走神经之前，我只想告诉你一个与每个人都非常相关的效应，那就是，正如你之前记得的那样，迷走神经不仅由从脑干到身体器官的神经通路组成，而且还由从器官返回到大脑本身的神经通路组成。

And there is a specific vagal nerve pathway that goes from the lining of the gut up to regions in the brain that then send on to yet further regions that stimulate the release of dopamine, which, as many of you know, is a molecule associated with motivation and seeking.

有一条特定的迷走神经通路从肠道内壁一直延伸到大脑中的区域，然后再发送到刺激多巴胺释放的其他区域，正如你们许多人所知，多巴胺是一种与动机和寻求相关的分子。

More often than not, the seeking out of things that are pleasurable or at least that, in the short-term, are pleasurable.

通常，我们会寻找令人愉悦的事物，或者至少在短期内令人愉悦的事物。

Sugar, sex, temperature, exercise, rewards of financial or relationships or et cetera.

糖、性、温度、锻炼、经济或人际关系的奖励等等。

The vagal nerve pathway that starts within the gut and then communicates with the dopamine system is sensing three things-- mainly three things, I should say.

迷走神经通路始于肠道，然后与多巴胺系统进行通信，它正在感知三件事——我应该说，主要是三件事。

Essential fatty acids.

必需脂肪酸。

So this would be your omega-3s, your omega-6s.

所以这就是您的 omega-3、omega-6。

Amino acids.

氨基酸。

In particular, the essential amino acids that come from high-quality protein foods.

尤其是来自优质蛋白质食物的必需氨基酸。

And sugar.

还有糖。

There are neurons in your gut that are activated-- that is, they send electrical impulses up through the vagus nerve to the brain to then stimulate the release of dopamine when you ingest things that contain sugar, amino acids-- in particular, essential amino acids from high-quality proteins, and essential fatty acids.

肠道中的神经元被激活，也就是说，当您摄入含有糖、氨基酸（特别是来自优质蛋白质的必需氨基酸）和必需脂肪酸的食物时，它们会通过迷走神经向大脑发送电脉冲，然后刺激多巴胺的释放。

Why would this pathway exist?

为什么会存在这条路径？

Well, this pathway exists, we believe, in order to get us to motivate-- to seek out more of particular foods that bring sugar, essential amino acids, and essential fatty acids because those three things are not just highly rewarding, but they are critical for our survival, perhaps much more so than other things out there because we need essential amino acids for muscular and tissue repair.

我们相信，这条途径的存在是为了激励我们寻找更多能够带来糖分、必需氨基酸和必需脂肪酸的特定食物，因为这三样东西不仅具有很高的回报，而且对我们的生存至关重要，也许比其他东西更重要，因为我们需要必需氨基酸来修复肌肉和组织。

We need essential fatty acids for nerve cell and other cellular repair.

我们需要必需脂肪酸来修复神经细胞和其他细胞。

Those essential fatty acids are actually brought into and become the building blocks of the cellular membranes of everything, from neurons to other cells in the body, but in particular, neurons.

这些必需脂肪酸实际上被带入并成为一切细胞膜的组成部分，从神经元到体内其他细胞，特别是神经元。

And then, of course, sugar is highly rewarding, we know that.

当然，我们知道，糖是非常有价值的。

Even if you're somebody who doesn't like really sweet stuff like me, I don't know anybody that, at least at some stage of their life, didn't like a really delicious chocolate chip cookie or a really delicious piece of cake at some point in their life, maybe before they wean themselves off sugar.

即使你是像我一样不喜欢真正甜的东西的人，我不知道有谁，至少在他们生命的某个阶段，在他们生命中的某个时刻，也许在他们戒掉糖之前，不喜欢一块真正美味的巧克力饼干或一块真正美味的蛋糕。

Well, these neurons in the gut are essentially sitting there, and in an unconscious, completely unconscious way so you're not thinking about the taste of them in your gut-- you taste things in your mouth, as you recall, not within your gut.

嗯，肠道中的这些神经元基本上以一种无意识、完全无意识的方式坐在那里，所以你不会想到它们在肠道中的味道——你记得，你在嘴里尝到东西，而不是在你的肠道内。

But yes, the taste of sugar; yes, the taste of savory meat; yes, essential fatty acids will trigger a appetite of the sort that we're used to thinking about, the kind of mental and emotional appetite for certain foods, but at the level of your gut, the neurons of the vagus are sending signals up to the brain and getting you to seek out and consume more of those foods because your body can use those foods and really wants those foods.

但是，是的，糖的味道；是的，肉的味道鲜美；是的，必需脂肪酸会引发我们习惯认为的那种食欲，即对某些食物的精神和情感食欲，但在肠道层面，迷走神经元会向大脑发送信号，让你寻找并消耗更多这些食物，因为你的身体可以使用这些食物并且真正需要这些食物。

Now do you need more of them?

现在您需要更多吗？

Not necessarily.

未必。

That's where the taste of these foods becomes confounded with our absolute need for them.

这就是这些食物的味道与我们对它们的绝对需求相混淆的地方。

We tend to over-consume sugars.

我们倾向于过量摄入糖。

Most people probably don't over-consume essential amino acids from healthy sources, but some people do.

大多数人可能不会过量摄入健康来源的必需氨基酸，但有些人会这样做。

We need essential fatty acids.

我们需要必需脂肪酸。

What the issue becomes is when people are consuming a lot of sugar and these neurons are getting activated, and then we're seeking out more sugar, and then we're not getting enough of the foods with the essential amino acids, such as high-quality proteins or high-quality fatty acids.

问题是，当人们摄入大量糖并且这些神经元被激活时，我们就会寻找更多的糖，然后我们就没有摄入足够的含有必需氨基酸的食物，例如优质蛋白质或优质脂肪酸。

And so I've often said to people, when they ask, hey, how can I quit my sugar cravings?

所以当人们问我时，我经常对他们说，嘿，我怎样才能戒掉对糖的渴望？

Well, I'm not aware of any randomized controlled trial to support this.

嗯，我不知道有任何随机对照试验来支持这一点。

Maybe there is one, but I'm not aware of one.

也许有，但我不知道。

One thing that I know by my own experience and the experience of many other people really can work to reduce those sugar cravings is to simply increase the amount of quality protein-containing essential amino acids that you consume and to increase the amount of essential fatty acids like omega-3s in the form of fish oil that you consume-- or another form of omega-3 fatty acids.

根据我自己的经验以及许多其他人的经验，我知道确实可以减少对糖的渴望，那就是简单地增加您消耗的优质含蛋白质必需氨基酸的量，并增加您消耗的鱼油形式的 omega-3 等必需脂肪酸（或另一种形式的 omega-3 脂肪酸）的量。

Because then those neurons will essentially send signals to the brain where you seek out more of those particular foods.

因为这些神经元基本上会向大脑发送信号，让你寻找更多特定的食物。

In other words, you can do a sort of-- I guess in neuroscience, we would call this a silent substitution.

换句话说，你可以做某种——我想在神经科学中，我们称之为沉默替代。

You can, in an unconscious way, substitute the thing that activates those very same neurons so then you're seeking out the things that are actually healthy for you.

你可以以一种无意识的方式替换激活那些完全相同的神经元的东西，这样你就可以找到真正对你健康的东西。

And while I'm not someone to demonize sugar, I do believe that most people would do well to eat less sugar, less highly processed foods, and more high-quality proteins and more high-quality essential fatty acids, things like fish oil.

虽然我不是妖魔化糖的人，但我确实相信，大多数人最好少吃糖、少吃精加工食品，多吃高质量蛋白质和高质量必需脂肪酸，例如鱼油。

So you can pick your protein sources according to whether or not you're vegan, vegetarian, or omnivore such as me.

所以你可以根据你是素食主义者、素食主义者还是像我这样的杂食动物来选择你的蛋白质来源。

I'm an omnivore-- proud omnivore.

我是杂食动物——骄傲的杂食动物。

Can't put me in any camp because I'm in all of them.

不能把我归入任何阵营，因为我属于所有阵营。

And in that way, control your appetite, get the nutrients you need.

通过这种方式，控制你的食欲，获取你需要的营养。

And yes, it's all being done via the vagus.

是的，这一切都是通过迷走神经完成的。

I'd like to take this time to thank you for joining me for this Ask Me Anything episode.

我想借此机会感谢您与我一起观看本期“有问必答”节目。

And I'd like to thank you for being a premium subscriber to the Huberman Lab podcast.

我要感谢您成为 Huberman Lab 播客的高级订阅者。

I'd like to remind you that if I haven't answered your question already, that I will be doing these Ask Me Anythings every month.

我想提醒您，如果我还没有回答您的问题，我每个月都会做这些“问我任何事情”。

I will continue to sift through the questions that are on the premium website.

我将继续筛选高级网站上的问题。

And I would encourage you to put additional questions there and to upvote questions that you'd like to see the answers to.

我鼓励您在那里提出其他问题，并对您希望看到答案的问题进行投票。

If any of the questions that I responded to today you didn't feel were thoroughly answered enough, then please add a new question there and point that out.

如果我今天回答的任何问题您觉得没有得到足够彻底的回答，那么请在那里添加一个新问题并指出。

I will read all the questions that are there and I will strive to answer them as thoroughly, concisely, and clearly as possible.

我将阅读其中的所有问题，并努力尽可能彻底、简洁和清晰地回答它们。

Again, you can put those at hubermanlab.com/premium.

同样，您可以将它们放在 hubermanlab.com/premium 上。

And as always, thank you for your interest in science.

一如既往，感谢您对科学的兴趣。