罗伯特·罗德里格兹：罪恶之城、三步杀人曲、杀手悲歌、阿丽塔与电影制作
Robert Rodriguez: Sin City, Desperado, El Mariachi, Alita, and Filmmaking
独立电影起家的导演谈低成本拍摄的起点、暴力美学风格的形成，以及数字技术与影像实验。
1992 年，罗伯特·罗德里格兹（Robert Rodriguez）带着一部西班牙语电影去了多伦多电影节。他是墨西哥裔，但在美国长大，家里不说西班牙语。这部电影的剧本是他用英文写的，然后让演员一句一句翻译成西班牙语；他写下的英文字幕，最后成了这部电影的字幕。拍摄时他把“录音”这个词的西班牙语说错了，演员看着他一脸茫然。整部电影成本 7000 美元，他一个人担任导演、编剧、摄影、剪辑、录音、配乐、特效，全片几乎每个镜头只拍一条。
这部电影叫《杀手悲歌》（El Mariachi），拿了圣丹斯电影节评审团大奖，被哥伦比亚影业买下，后来拍了两部续集。它开启了一个导演的职业生涯，也顺手改写了独立电影的游戏规则。
一个被全世界记住的镜头，其实是逼出来的
《三步杀人曲》（Desperado）里有一个后来变成互联网迷因的镜头：主角扔出两颗手榴弹，慢镜头背对爆炸走开。所有人都以为这是精心设计的风格化场面。
实际情况是，那天他找特效师要一点“人体碎片或者弹片”往楼上炸。特效师已经累到快散架，说没有碎片，只能给一个丙烷火球，而且烧得极快，一闪就没。罗德里格兹问，多快？对方说，就那么快，但够大够橙。
他的解决方案是：用慢镜头拍，让火球在胶片上停留久一点。然后他跟演员说，我知道这个火球有多大，你们走得快一点，表情要坚定，一直走，别停，别回头看，不然眉毛可能被燎到。
拍完他拿去给詹姆斯·卡梅隆（James Cameron）看。卡梅隆看到那个镜头，手举了起来。他之前从没见过这种画面。六个月后《杀出个黎明》（From Dusk Till Dawn）上映，罗德里格兹又在加油站爆炸那场戏里用了一次，这个视觉语言就彻底定型了。
两次电影相隔不到半年上映，观众以为这是某种新风格。它的来源是一次预算不够、时间不够、特效师快撑不住之后的临时应对。
把一场火灾留在成片里
《杀出个黎明》酒吧那场戏更极端。特效师在演员身后堆了远超需要的炸药，爆炸冲出门框的瞬间，整个酒吧正面（泡沫做的）开始着火。你如果在成片里仔细看，火球升起来的时候，布景已经在烧了，只是剪辑点刚好卡在观众看清之前。
那是那个外景的第一天、第一个镜头。消防水带接上去，没水。整个美术组站在那里哭，因为他们花了几周搭出来的东西，几分钟就变成焦炭。演员 Cheech Marin 说，看来我今晚的台词是不用说了。
罗德里格兹的反应是：继续拍。
“这黑乎乎的样子挺酷的，我们就这么拍。”
所以那整场戏里，乔治·克鲁尼和 Cheech 站在一栋烧焦的建筑前面，那片焦黑不是美术做的旧，火真的烧过。如果布景完好无损，观众反而能看出这是泡沫搭的。火灾把它变成了一种末日感。
他后来总结这件事的方式，比任何励志书都直接：计划一定会崩，你唯一能做的是在崩塌的现场睁着眼睛，看有没有什么东西正好被你撞上。“从失败的灰烬里筛，你下一次成功的那把钥匙就在里面。但如果你不去找，你就找不到。”
一次票房失败，埋着两个最大的成功
1995 年，昆汀·塔伦蒂诺（Quentin Tarantino）打电话问他，要不要和另外两位导演一起拍一部短片合集，发生在同一家酒店，同一个除夕夜，每个人用一个房间，彼此不知道对方在拍什么。
他的第一反应是举手答应，没有做任何调研。事后他才发现，多段式合集电影在商业上几乎从不成功，哪怕导演是科波拉、斯科塞斯、伍迪·艾伦，观众也不买账，因为观影体验像电影开场了三次。
《四个房间》（Four Rooms）上映，票房扑了。
如果他只看到“扑了”这一层，故事就结束了。但他去灰烬里翻，翻出了两个东西。
第一个：那部片里他拍的那一段，是两个小孩在酒店房间里乱跑，父母不见了，让服务员当保姆。拍的时候他看到安东尼奥·班德拉斯（Antonio Banderas）和他太太，觉得这两人长得像一对国际间谍。他想，如果这对父母真是间谍，两个孩子得去救他们呢？这个点子后来变成《非常小特务》（Spy Kids），到现在拍了五部。
第二个：他太喜欢拍短片了，一直不甘心合集这个形式不成立。他想，如果不做四段、四个导演，而是三段、一个导演，用三幕剧的结构来做呢？这个想法后来变成《罪恶之城》（Sin City）。
他讲这件事的时候特意强调，他举手接这个活儿，图的是跟朋友一起做点好玩的、试一点新东西，钱从来不在考虑里。所以“失败”这个判断本身就不成立，因为他要的东西已经拿到了。真正需要重新审视的，是那个用票房定义成败的坐标系。
“有时候过河的唯一办法，就是在头两块石头上滑倒。”
一个人就是整个剧组
《杀手悲歌》的拍摄方式，今天听起来像某种行为艺术。
那台摄影机是租的，16 毫米，噪音大到无法同期录音。他没钱做隔音罩，请不起录音师，所以流程变成：先拍画面，一个镜头一条，绝不重来；然后让演员把整场戏的台词再讲一遍，话筒贴到嘴边近距离录；最后在剪辑台上手动对齐。
奇迹在于，他用的全是非职业演员。这些人不是在“表演”，他们只是用自己的节奏说话，所以每一次说的方式几乎一模一样。同步率天然就高。哪里对不上，就切到狗、切到刀、切到女主角，再切回来的时候口型已经重新对上了。
这个为了省钱被迫发明的方法，意外造出了他后来标志性的快切节奏。他在访谈里说得很清楚：这个剪辑风格谈不上美学选择，它就是唯一能让声音保持同步的办法。
还有个细节。他太穷，主角的手提箱是家里拿的纸板箱。装枪的那个是借来的，顶部材料磨掉了一块，露出木头颜色，跟另一个箱子对不上。他舍不得买油漆，所以成片里是这样处理的：纸板箱放下，切；换成木头的那个，打开；关上，切回纸板箱，人走出去。他自己提示观众去看这些剪辑点，因为大多数人根本不会注意，注意力全在动作上。
他讲这段的时候语气很轻，说这部电影是“练习片”，本来打算直接卖给西班牙语家庭录像市场，赚回本钱再拍第二部。他压根没想过会有人认真看。正因为没想过有人看，他才敢一个镜头一条、敢不买油漆、敢把所有实验性的东西都塞进去。
“因为你觉得没人会看，你反而做出了了不起的东西。你只是在为自己做。”
这句话可以单独拿出来讲。他后来分析，如果当时知道这片子会去圣丹斯，他会“认真起来”，会拍保险镜头，会顾虑，会变得保守。那份业余和无知，恰恰是这部电影能成立的前提。
声音是画面的另一半
访谈里有一段他现场演示的素材，讲的是《杀出个黎明》电视剧版里一个 20 分钟拍完的动作段落。演员 D.J. Cotrona 提了个想法：在一个西部僵尸小镇，主角手里的枪空着，子弹在另一只手上，撞到僵尸的时候子弹飞出去，他跳起来在空中接住子弹、上膛、落地前开枪。
电视剧一集拍七天，剧组里每个人对这个镜头的想法都不一样。特效指导想上威亚，摄影指导不操作机器，剪辑师在另一个房间，视觉特效团队根本不在现场。
他自己就是所有这些岗位。所以他现场做的是：先让替身跳一次，看滞空时间，发现根本不够。然后决定让演员本人上。用三跳剪成一跳。所有子弹都打偏，只有一颗进膛。主摄影机装长焦，他自己操作；B 机斯坦尼康不动，因为没时间改装，直接倒过来拍，后期翻转。
后面这一步才是重点。他回家自己剪，自己配声音。他让所有子弹飞行时的音乐全部消失，只留下夹克被风吹的声音、子弹碰撞的叮当声。观众在那一瞬间会屏住呼吸，因为没有任何声音告诉他们结果。
还有一个技巧更狠。演员上膛的动作实际上没有被拍到特写，但他在声音上做了一个“特写”：其他声音全部抽掉，只留下那个金属卡榫声，贴得极近。观众会坚称自己看到了特写。
“你没听见，你就没看见。你没看见，但你放了一个声音，你就听见了，然后你在脑子里就看见了。”
还有一处。演员在第一个镜头里就已经落地了，但他在落地的瞬间没有放声音，所以那八帧画面被观众的大脑自动忽略，人看起来还悬在空中。他靠声音的缺席，把物理时间拉长了。
这套本事的来源很朴素：他早年拍《杀手悲歌》时摄影机没法录同期声，只能后期一条一条贴音效，贴到对声音的判断变成肌肉记忆。后来在《四个房间》里，开场服务生把钥匙插进锁孔那一串声音，他用的是枪械音效，不是钥匙音效，因为真实的钥匙声在大银幕上不够“响”。
他给了一个厨师式的比喻：食谱上写了这个，但你尝一口，觉得需要加点辣椒、加点盐、挤点柠檬。剪辑台就是灶台。
会剪辑的导演，天然领先好莱坞一大截
他有一个说法，直接解释了为什么好莱坞电影那么贵。
一个剧组可能有两百人，他判断这里面没有一个人会剪辑。所以现场拿的素材是错的，所以要补拍，所以剪辑师在某个房间里干等，事后打电话说“我们还需要那个特写”“那个不接，得重拍”。两百个人在烧钱，因为没有人知道最后那些素材要怎么拼起来。
他的工作流反过来：先想清楚剪辑点，再决定现场拍什么。制片厂的人第一次看《三步杀人曲》的素材时很慌，说镜头太短了。因为他们的经验是：一个人走进酒吧，先用大全景拍完整场对话。他的做法是，大全景只拍人走进来那两秒，然后立刻换机位，因为他知道后面要用中景和特写，大全景的其余部分根本不会用。
他把第一场戏剪出来放给制片厂看，对方看完说，行，你知道自己在干什么。
《罪恶之城》里布鲁斯·威利斯拍了九天，本尼西奥·德尔·托罗（Benicio del Toro）三天，布莱特妮·墨菲（Brittany Murphy）一天。米基·洛克（Mickey Rourke）和鲁特格尔·哈尔（Rutger Hauer）的对手戏，两人相隔八个月拍摄，一个对着他演，一个对着他演，后期剪在一起。
他自己讲到这里也觉得这件事邪门。因为他 19 岁时做过一个练习：把鲁特格尔·哈尔在《搭车人》里的镜头和米基·洛克在《斗鱼》里的镜头剪成一个音乐录像，为了看起来像同一部电影，他把整段做成了黑白。十几年后拍《罪恶之城》，他一个一个地拍这两个人，然后在剪辑台上把他们拼进同一个黑白世界。他翻出那盘旧带子的时候愣住了。
“有时候你有一个愿景，它并不清晰，但它是从未来传过来的。你只需要跟着那个声音走。”
把德尼罗拍四天，把 Lady Gaga 拍半天
《弯刀》（Machete）里罗伯特·德尼罗演反派。他给德尼罗打电话，说这个角色是整部电影的大反派，但我保证只占用你四天。
德尼罗的角色有一场医院戏。实际情况是：德尼罗住在奥斯汀市中心的 Stephen F. Austin 酒店，剧组把隔壁房间改成了医院布景。他早上醒来，穿过走廊，躺到隔壁床上，穿上睡衣就能拍。房间里加一根输液管、两个护士，就成了病房。
他跟德尼罗说，你拍下一部《拜见岳父大人》的时候会想起我，因为那部戏你要在拖车里坐六个月。同一件事，换个组织方式，成本和时间可以差出两个数量级。
Lady Gaga 更夸张。她在公开场合说过，《弯刀》里应该放她写的《Americano》。他听到之后打电话过去，问她成名之前是不是学过表演，有没有考虑过演戏。她说学过。他说，问题在于我的同行不知道怎么“放人”，他们一开口就要你六个月，你还在巡演。但如果你来，我半天就能拍完你的全部戏份，还能顺手把电影海报拍了。
她来了。他把几个布景像流水线一样排在一起，车里的、走廊的、房间的，一路拍过去。半天收工。后来《雨中的我》（Rain On Me）的 MV 就是他导的。
《罪恶之城》里她也只用了半天，因为她的巡演到了休斯顿，开车到奥斯汀就能拍一场和约瑟夫·高登-莱维特（Joseph Gordon-Levitt）的对手戏。
能做到这件事的前提不是人脉，是他同时掌握剧本、摄影、剪辑、特效四个环节，所以他能准确判断：这个演员的戏份实际需要多少小时，哪些镜头可以放在别的日子里合成，哪些东西可以用声音和剪辑糊过去。这种确定性，才是能对一线演员开出“只占用你四天”的底气。
先在纸上验证，再让对方零风险
《罪恶之城》的起源过程，是他做事方法的浓缩版。
他从小就买弗兰克·米勒（Frank Miller）的原著，每次看到不同版本都买一本，回家才发现已经有三本了。他后来意识到，米勒是“又写又画”的作者，在他眼里这就像一个自己编剧自己导演的人，天然有亲近感。
转折点是他拍完《非常小特务 3D》，在绿幕上完成了大量数字拍摄。他看着自己的漫画书想：我现在知道怎么拍了。演员放绿幕前，背景完全后期做，画面调成高对比黑白，窗户就是一个白方块。预算甚至可以滑动：没钱了就把人拍成黑白，背后打一个白点当路灯。
他先在自己工作室的绿幕前拍了一个测试，让妹妹和自己上镜，调成黑白，看起来跟漫画一模一样，只是会动。然后他打电话给漫画家朋友 Mike Allred 要米勒的号码，第二天就飞了纽约。
在酒吧里，他把笔记本打开，给米勒看一个看起来完全是他自己漫画的画面开始动起来。米勒问，你怎么做到的。
然后是关键的那段话。他跟米勒说，我知道你不认识我，我得赢得你的信任，才能拿到你的孩子。但我们现在就能拍。米勒兴奋了两秒，然后说，不行，那还得写剧本，然后制片厂会提意见，会有一堆事。
他给出的方案是彻底的风险转移：
- 十二月我一个人写剧本，不花钱。剧本基本就是从你的书里剪出来，我不加东西。
- 一月找几个演员朋友来我的绿幕，把开场戏拍出来。这场既是测试，也就是成片的开场。
- 特效、声音、音乐、片头字幕，全部我自己做。
- 我们一起看。你喜欢，我们就拍，那时候你再给我版权。你不喜欢，这东西归你，就当一部短片，拿去给朋友看。
米勒没有任何下行风险。所有时间、金钱、技术风险都在罗德里格兹这边。
结果是：十一月见面，十二月写完剧本，一月十小时拍完开场，两周做完特效。他拿着这个片段去见布鲁斯·威利斯，片头字幕第一个名字打的就是 Bruce Willis，然后说，你看，你已经在片尾字幕里了，你现在必须演了。三月开机。
“我把所有的风险都拿走。这是我能给出的最好的东西。”
他后来对米勒说了一句话，解释为什么他能看懂这本漫画：我以前是画漫画的，你其实已经是导演了，你只是用笔代替了摄影机。你从纸面演员身上拿到的表演是惊人的，你的镜头设计超过任何一位摄影指导。别的制片厂拿到这个本子，会把它拍成一部灰暗的犯罪片，他们会漏掉最要紧的一点：这个故事的视觉本身就是一半。
创意不是你挤出来的，是流过来的
访谈里他反复讲一个概念，叫“管子”（pipe）。
他的判断是：创意不来自你。有一个“创意精灵”需要一双手，你没有手它就没法工作。你要做的是把自己变成一根通畅的管子，别用自我把它堵上。
他给了一个非常具体的失败案例。19 岁那年他每天要交一幅连环漫画，被截稿日追着跑。他想偷懒，希望能“先在沙发上想清楚整个漫画，然后再画”，半小时搞定，不用花三小时。结果他在沙发上躺到交稿前 30 分钟，什么也没想出来，最后还是得坐到桌前，画出第一格，第二格自己就跟上来了。
“如果你是这个姿势（瘫着），创意精灵不会来找你。它需要你的手。它不会因为你坐在那儿等就奖励你。”
他的写作工具是一叠索引卡，包里常年放一包。他说他用这东西赚过一百万。写下“他走进一家酒吧”“酒保说我们不雇 mariachi”“一个提着吉他箱的人进来，开枪扫射”，然后发现这是短片的结构，不是长片。那就再往前加：反派在监狱里，警察都是他的人，有人买凶杀他，他反杀，然后打电话说“我要来你的城，杀光你的人，再来杀你”。
你再写“他手会中枪”，因为他是乐手，民谣都是悲剧。那女孩就得死。为什么？因为这是这个人物的起源故事，他要变成那个提着武器箱走天涯的人，他必须失去一切。布鲁斯·韦恩的父母必须死。现实逻辑上讲不必，可不这样他就没有驱动力。
他在这一段里讲了一个可以直接用的方法：很多人去心理咨询，目的是拿问题，答案你自己都有。而我们平时问自己的问题往往是“我为什么这么失败”，这个问题你能立刻想出十个答案。换成“我今天能做哪三件不仅改变我的人生，也改变我身边人的事”，你会写出十五件。
身份比欲望更有力量
访谈里有一段他自己的人生案例，讲到这个转换有多快。
他从小就讨厌运动，高中是画漫画的，个子很高，教练来拉他进队，他说他不觉得人应该跑，除非有人在追。他把这句台词写进了《老师不是人》（The Faculty），给了那个拿着摄影机的角色。
代价是，长期伏案画画让他背反复出问题，一次能躺一个月。拍片后操作斯坦尼康，每年都要打可的松。拍《非常小特务 2》时，里卡多·蒙塔尔班（Ricardo Montalban）因为背部手术失败坐在轮椅上，对他说，我 84 岁了，你什么借口？
他后来问史泰龙怎么练。史泰龙说，找教练。他说，连你都要教练？史泰龙说，我需要教练。他想，那普通人算什么。于是他请了教练，然后每次教练来他都觉得恶心，因为他讨厌训练。他说他从来不理解运动。
转折发生在一个朋友身上。那位朋友抽了一辈子烟，医生让她戒。她说她现在不抽了。他说，你会复吸，因为你刚才告诉我，你的身份是个抽烟的人，你现在只是“一个不抽烟的烟民”。你得说“我是个不抽烟的人”。不抽烟的人闻到烟味会呛。
他说完这段话，自己愣住了。他想，那我的“训练”呢？
“那天我说，我是个运动员。这是我这一辈子最不可能用来形容自己的词。”
第二天开始，他再也没请过教练。他并没有突然爱上训练。“运动员”这个身份会自动生成行为：运动员会腾出时间训练，运动员会吃得干净。他说这跟愿望无关，问题出在身份上。你缺的从来不是渴望，你缺的是那个自我定义。
他把这个逻辑套在创造力上。他问 Lex 是否认为自己是 creative person，Lex 犹豫了。他说，你一犹豫，就等于在起跑线上把自己的腿锯掉一条。你说“我不确定我算不算”，另一条也锯了。
“会怀疑自己够不够好的，才是真正的艺术家。你刚才那份不适，就是证据。”
身边必须有人比你强出一大截
他讲《三步杀人曲》开拍前，他去见卡梅隆，想给对方留个好印象。他说，我刚上了一个三天斯坦尼康课程，因为我请不起斯坦尼康操作员，我要自己操作。
如果对方跟他同级，回答会是“我也干过这事”。卡梅隆的回答是：我买过一台斯坦尼康，没打算用它拍，我把它拆了，要设计一台更好的。
“我们在学怎么用机器，他在设计新系统。你要跟这种人待在一起，不是跟和你做同样事情的人。”
他讲昆汀，说去他家能看到几张手写稿，问那是什么，昆汀说，那是我写了开头不打算写完的东西。他说，能不能给我，我拿它去扩成三部曲。他扔掉的，普通人愿意拿命换。
他讲斯皮尔伯格。九十年代中期，斯皮尔伯格在拍当时最好的一批商业片，同时被媒体、观众、影评人集体扔石头，《侏罗纪公园》被说成“就那样”。他当时正在跟斯皮尔伯格筹备《佐罗》，被这个氛围吓到了，想，也许我该待在雷达下面，别把头探出来。
他问斯皮尔伯格：人家天天朝你扔石头，你怎么受得了。
“哦，罗伯特，你只要不眨眼就行。”（Oh, Robert, you just don't blink.）
他说这句话听起来像克林特·伊斯特伍德的台词，但当时能看出对方说的是真的，而且能看出他就是这么熬过来的。那些攻击的设计目的就是让你眨眼，你只要不眨，它就失效了。
他还讲了一个更隐蔽的机制：他 19 岁做过一个音乐录像，把鲁特格尔·哈尔和米基·洛克剪进同一部黑白电影。十几年后在《罪恶之城》的剪辑台上，他做的事一模一样。他说他不知道那个愿景是什么意思，但它是从未来传过来的，你只要跟着走。
《阿丽塔》和卡梅隆的工程脑
《阿丽塔：战斗天使》（Alita: Battle Angel）的起点是 1995 年。卡梅隆给他看《阿凡达》的剧本处理稿（scriptment），当时所有技术都不存在。他读完想，这故事很好，但这要怎么拍，不可能。
《阿丽塔》原本是卡梅隆为《阿凡达》做的技术准备，结果《阿凡达》先做成了，阿丽塔被推到一边，等了将近二十年。
罗德里格兹的版本是“加快版的卡梅隆流程”：卡梅隆的《阿凡达》几乎全 CG，他这边有大量实景。他在奥斯汀的旧机场地块上搭了七条街的实景，二十英尺高的墙，上面用数字延展。这是全美现存最大的实景片场，因为一般布景拍完就拆，他留着，一直用来拍墨西哥、南美、欧洲的各种设定。
女主角罗莎·萨拉查（Rosa Salazar）在试镜时把他看哭了。她的表演通过动作捕捉和面部捕捉被一比一还原，而这些表演发生在真实搭出来的街道上，她不是对着绿幕在空演。
“如果你把她放进一个真实的环境，那是真正的挑战。如果全是 CG，那你可以糊弄一切。”
他讲这段时强调了一个技术与表演的关系：没有表演，特效救不了你。所以他把克里斯托夫·瓦尔兹、詹妮弗·康纳利、马赫沙拉·阿里全放在现场，
让技术在他们的对手戏里消失。
他还提到一个少有人知的事实：《阿丽塔》其实成了维塔（Weta）为《阿凡达 2》做的训练场。那些在水下捕捉、表情精度上的尝试，先在阿丽塔身上跑了一遍，所以第二部《阿凡达》的水看起来比第一部精细那么多。
关于卡梅隆，他给了一个很有意思的对照。他问卡梅隆，你拍片时能清晰看到成片吗？卡梅隆说，很远，而且失焦。你做着做着，它才开始清晰。
他追问，那你不是有激光视力。卡梅隆说，不是，就是很远、很模糊，然后一点点走过来。
这段对话卸掉了一个幻觉。那些看上去最笃定的人，开机那一刻也不知道自己在干什么。区别只在于他们相信自己能一步步走到那儿。
他还讲了卡梅隆那艘破世界纪录的潜水器。模型就摆在办公桌上，巴掌大小。他问，你下潜的时候不怕吗？卡梅隆说，不怕。为什么不怕？因为逃生舱是我设计的。要是我跟别的什么笨蛋一起下去，我会怕。
这种笃定没法借，也教不会。它来自“这件事的每一个环节我都亲手做过”。
创意加技术，才是那个稀缺品
罗德里格兹 16 岁那年暑假，父亲把他送到朋友马里奥的照相馆打工。马里奥让他带一台相机回家，学怎么用，理由是学会了才好卖相机。
他在家里有一堆弟弟妹妹，就拍他们。把照片拿回去，马里奥冲洗出来，看了看说，这些很有创意，你是个有创意的人。
然后马里奥说了那句话，他说他到现在都没法忘记：
“那是一种天赋。但现在你需要变得技术。”
马里奥的解释是：有创意的人需要技术人员，技术人员也需要有创意的人，因为这两样很少长在同一个人身上。创意是天生的，技术是违背天性的，但你可以逼自己学。如果你两样都有，你就不可阻挡。
这句话直接解释了《杀手悲歌》为什么没有剧组。他当时想得很清楚：如果我只是那个有创意的人，我就永远需要别人来把它实现，我的“我需要”清单会永远很长。而一旦你的清单长到一定程度，你就永远到不了你要去的地方。
所以他一个人去了墨西哥，摄影机的用法是打电话问出来的。他不知道怎么调马达转速，不知道景深怎么控制，整部片拍完都不知道胶片到底有没有正常曝光。
他把这套逻辑总结成一类人的画像：卡梅隆是这样，乔治·卢卡斯是这样，约翰·拉塞特（John Lasseter）是这样。极度技术加极度创意，是这些人真正的护城河。
他还讲了一个反向观察。他邀请卡梅隆来奥斯汀的工作室，卡梅隆看完说，你身边只招跟你一样的人，你每个毛孔都在往外冒创意，你这里每个人都是如此。他回，我不是刻意这么招的，但如果一个人不是这样，他在我这儿待不下去，自己会走。
然后他去了卡梅隆的工作室，看到满屋子都是“卡梅隆式的人”。他说那些人极度技术，你跟他们讲物理不能含糊，不能模糊逻辑，他们会说“不对，这个不成立”。两边的门槛都极高，只是方向不同。
卢卡斯还跟他讲过一句关于地理的话。那时全世界只有他们俩在拍数字电影，卢卡斯说，幸好你住在奥斯汀，我住在马林郡。因为你不在洛杉矶那个盒子里，你自然会跳出盒子想问题，你就会撞上创新。
他说卢卡斯说对了。为什么我们不拍数字？那就拍数字。为什么不做数字 3D？那就做。为什么背景不全用绿幕？那就用。远离那个会说“你不能这么干”的环境，方法自己就长出来了。
在客厅里剪片，是一件被禁止过的事
1994 年，他是索尼片厂里唯一一个用电脑剪片的人。不只如此，他是在自己家里剪。
制片厂一开始不让他剪，理由是：我们从没有导演自己剪自己的片子，不能开这个先例，否则以后导演权力太大。他的回应是：你们买了《杀手悲歌》，那部也是我自己剪的。
对方妥协，但要求他去洛杉矶剪，方便他们随时看。而且他们看完素材之后很焦虑，说镜头太短了，一切都不对。
他把第一场戏剪出来，请他们到家里看。那场戏是史蒂夫·布西密（Steve Buscemi）在讲 mariachi 的传说，一大段独白。看完他们说，行，你知道自己在干嘛，走了。
那一时期他同时在剪三部片：《三步杀人曲》《四个房间》《杀出个黎明》。德尔·托罗来过，索德伯格来过，卡梅隆也来过，进门第一句是“我听说你客厅里有台 Avid”。
这件事在 1994 年是异端。它今天听起来平平无奇，因为那条路已经被人走通了。而它之所以能走通，是因为他把“工具在谁手里”当成了创作主权的一部分。
他讲卡梅隆的一个故事佐证这一点。做《终结者 2》时，片方不让用《Bad to the Bone》那首歌，认为不管用。卡梅隆周末晚上偷偷进剪辑室把它剪进去，第二天放给他们看。他后来对罗德里格兹说，我讨厌跟剪辑师合作，我要在自己家拆一堵墙，装一台 Avid，下一部我自己剪。
他真做了。他凭《泰坦尼克号》拿了剪辑奥斯卡。他还有别的剪辑师，但他每一部都自己剪一版。
“你不能把那种权力交出去。因为你没法向别人解释你的愿景，你自己都还没想清楚，它是在做的过程中长出来的。”
同一天，收尾两个三部曲
2003 年夏天《非常小特务 3D》上映，几个月后《墨西哥往事》（Once Upon a Time in Mexico）上映。两部都是他三部曲的终章，都挂着安东尼奥·班德拉斯、丹尼·特雷霍（Danny Trejo）、Cheech Marin。
他同时剪这两部，一部在杀人，一部在跟小孩喊 yay。他说做两个极端的东西比做两个同类的东西容易。
真正的巧合发生在某一天。《非常小特务 3D》里班德拉斯只在最后一场绿幕戏出现，半天拍完。拍完他对班德拉斯说，现在去换你的 Desperado 衣服，我们把《墨西哥往事》欠的几个绿幕镜头补完。
“他一天之内完成了两个三部曲。这大概是史上第一次。”
《非常小特务 3D》本身也是一次技术越界。他早就想做 3D，拍《杀出个黎明》时就想让观众戴上眼镜之后整部电影变一个样，但当时胶片 3D 摄影机太差，做不了。后来他用了卡梅隆为水下 3D 纪录片做的系统，做出院线史上第一部数字 3D 电影。
他对 3D 的理解跟主流不一样。主流 3D 很“礼貌”，他的 3D 是主题公园式的，东西往观众脸上砸。他要的就是让人明白为什么要戴这副眼镜，孩子们在座位上伸手去抓。
这部片还有一次极限操作。拍到一半他发现双机拍摄意味着每个特效镜头要做两遍，进度来不及，他去跟片方说，得延档。对方说，从没听过你慌，可以给你延。十分钟后电话回来说，不行，麦当劳会告我们两千万，那个档期必须有一部电影。
2003 年 1 月开机，7 月 3D 版进影院。这是特效电影史上最快的完成速度。没得选的时候，人能把山搬走。
为什么是动作片，为什么先有角色
他的新公司叫 Brass Knuckle Films（铜指虎影业），计划是四部动作片，10 到 3000 万美元的区间，在他的奥斯汀片场拍。观众可以真的投资，拿到分成。所有投资人可以给他提案，四部里有一部会从这些提案里出来。
他选动作片的原因很务实：问 Netflix 现在缺什么，答案是动作片，缺得多，愿意为低成本动作片付溢价。而 2000 万美元的动作片对大厂来说便宜得不可思议，他们已经不会这么拍了。
《疾速追杀》第一部 2000 万，第二部 4000 万，第三部 8000 万，第四部一亿，因为观众基数在涨。他提到卡梅隆拍《终结者》时预算不到 500 万，卡梅隆自己的说法是“我们连 500 万都没有”。
“启动一个十亿级系列，不需要很多钱。”
那动作片的核心是什么。他的答案只有一个字：人。
《虎胆龙威》里麦卡伦是警察，有能力，但不是超人。他被卷进远超自己能力的事里，所以你会替他紧张。《疾速追杀》里约翰·威克是超人，但他退休了，他被激怒了，他要回去干那门活。动作的设计依附于角色的处境，反过来就散了。
他提到《终结者》里的莎拉·康纳：一个女服务员，觉得自己的人生不会有什么起色，结果发现自己是未来拯救人类那个人的母亲，她必须变成另一个人。这才是让人投入的东西，一个角色的创世纪。
还有那个被低估的结构件：倒计时。他说所有电影都需要它，连爱情喜剧都有，通常是开演二三十分钟后有人冒出一句“我们得在这个周末婚礼之前找到新郎”。
他给的最高标准是《纽约大逃亡》（Escape from New York）：炸弹埋在脖子里，手腕上挂着计时器，主角一直在看还剩多少时间。其他电影的倒计时跟它比都显得假。
别用那种词形容自己的东西
访谈里 Lex 说自己做过很多很烂的东西，觉得这很重要。罗德里格兹打断了他：
“你在评判一件你根本没资格评判的事。”
他的论据是自己的经验：观众最爱的那些片段，往往是他最狼狈的时候凑出来的。那段空中接子弹的戏，是因为太阳要走了、只有二十分钟、替身跳不起来。观众喜欢的不是完美，是那种被逼出来的东西。
他说他有意专门拍预算更小、时间更少的片子。《我们都能当英雄》（We Can Be Heroes）是 Netflix 史上被重看次数最多的电影之一，而片方本来想给他 8000 万，他只要 5000 万。理由很直接：一，钱少点片子会更好；二，这样你们能拍三部，而不是一部。
他举了约翰·卡彭特的《怪形》（The Thing）：上映那周撞上《E.T.》，影评人骂它是色情片，观众不去看，卡彭特自己以为拍了一部好片，结果被现实打脸，开始怀疑自己的直觉。十年后它成了经典。
还有《星球大战》。当年卢卡斯放给一群导演朋友看，所有人的反应是“可怜的乔治，他把时间浪费在这上面了”。只有斯皮尔伯格说，它很天真，所以会大卖，小孩会喜欢。一部电影上映前，连它自己的创作者都不知道它是什么。
他提到昆汀剪完《低俗小说》那晚的状态。凌晨两点四十，他送昆汀回家，在车上问片子怎么样。昆汀说，完成了，但它还是像一部“昆汀会拍的电影”，不像一部真正的电影。他当时想，完了，这次不是那部。他回去打电话问参加导演场的几个朋友，所有人都没看出这是什么东西。
然后它去了戛纳，拿了金棕榈。
他问昆汀，那谁是那个看出东西的人。昆汀说，凯瑟琳·毕格罗，只有她说这里有东西。而且昆汀的一个朋友当时说，等你从戛纳回来，我要坐下来好好告诉你这部片哪里不对。
所以他的结论是：不要一部一部地赌，去承诺一个作品序列（a body of work）。哪一部是杰作不由你决定，你只负责持续生产。
活着就是重播
他有个说法，叫 living is reliving。
很多人嘲讽在演唱会上举手机拍的人，说你应该活在当下。他的反驳是：当下几秒钟就过去了，我们什么都不会记得。大脑是一台非常不可靠的计算机，用他的原话，是黄油做的。
他讲了一个例子。他妈妈 75 岁生日不想办，理由是十年前的 65 岁生日已经到顶了，办不出更好的。他问，65 岁那年我们干了什么？他自己完全不记得，虽然是他一手操办的。他翻日记、翻录像带，找到素材，剪了十分钟版本在生日会上放。放到妈妈接过车钥匙那一幕，她哭了，因为十年后的她才知道那把钥匙意味着什么。
“我们什么都不用做，把旧带子放一遍就行了。我们存了那么多好东西，全都忘了。”
他提到他给孩子拍过一组连环视频：让孩子对着镜头对十年后的自己说话，然后把镜头摇开，十年后再拍新的自己看旧的自己，一层套一层，像一个不断往里嵌套的项目。
他说 VHS 画质对孩子们来说就是虚拟现实。他们凑到屏幕前看房间的角落，说，我们离开客厅了，好像我们真的在那儿。他本来担心孩子会嫌画质差，结果完全不是问题，因为比起记忆，那个分辨率已经高得多。
所以他的建议是两条并行：拍，尽可能多拍；但一定要写日记，因为十年后你看到一张照片，不知道它是从哪来的。日记能把照片接回它的事件。
他提到自己在几百人的场合问过，有多少人写日记。举手的两三个。他说这是他最想传达的一件事。日记写到十五年以上，读起来像别人的日记。他翻到过一把吉他的来历，一直以为是自己买的，其实是某部电影的片方在他生日时送的。那是一把一万美元的 Santana 定制琴，他完全不记得。
日记还有一个副作用：你能看出规律。某天发生了一件改变人生的事，当时不觉得；周五、周六、周日连着三件大事。看久了你能开始预测未来。
关于记忆的有限和生命的终结，Lex 问他会不会难过。他讲了一个想放进电影里的想法：
“你做梦的时候，那个世界非常真实，你能看见墙。你醒来想告诉别人，一开口就忘了。我怀疑死后就是这样，你在下一段意识里醒来，想，哦，我以前是个导演？我有五个孩子？现在我要当一条鱼了。”
过去的生生世世，就是那样淡掉的梦。他说，会有一点难过，但那种难过会让人更珍惜现在这一段。
至于意义，他讲得很具体。他说孩子不是你的，你只是暂时被托付了一个完全不同的灵魂。五个孩子、九个兄弟姐妹，没有一个人是重样的。他觉得这些人是在上一世约好聚到一起的。在这个家庭里，每个人都被允许去找自己真正该成为的样子，而他们现在都在做那件事。
他说，当你把这个说清楚，他们会突然很确定。他们不用再纠结“我该不该做创作，那算正经工作吗”。他们可以直接加倍投入。你也可以跳过所有纠结，直接宣布我是那个人，然后明天的行为会自动跟上。
他还讲了一个高中老师的故事。高三那年，他写了一篇拉美研究课的论文，自认写得不好。老师看完说，根据我读到的这些，四年后你会又有钱又有名。四年后，《杀手悲歌》出来了。多年后他在校友会上遇到那位老师，问，你当时为什么那么说。老师一脸茫然，说我说过吗，看起来完全不承认自己会讲这种话。
“有时候从我们嘴里说出来的话不是我们自己，它是从我们身上穿过去的。”
所以他对“我们为什么在这里”的回答，是一个操作性的回答：你会被推着走，注意那些信号，认领你本来该是的那个人，别让人类的怀疑挡住路。怀疑就是堵住管子。
他给的方法，都能当天用
整场访谈里，他讲的东西没有一句是玄学，全部可以落到今天的行动上。
- 把身份先改掉，行为会自己跟上来。别说“我想更自律”，直接说“我是个运动员”“我是个有创意的人”，然后按这个人的方式过一天。
- 用索引卡写剧本、写方案、写任何结构。一张卡一件事，先把你已经知道的关键节点写下来，比如开头、转折、结局，空的地方让脑子自己填。
- 把问题换成一个能产生行动的版本。删掉“我为什么这么失败”，改成“我今天能做哪三件改变我和身边人的事”，答案会从一个变成十几个。
- 交稿日就是生产力。自己设定的假 deadline 大脑不信，所以要给自己一个真实的截点，或者接一个真实的活。他管这叫 D.J. 方法：关掉手机，三天写完。
- 先做一版给人看，把风险全揽到自己身上。想说服别人给你机会，就别让对方承担任何下行风险。
- 学剪辑，哪怕你不拍电影。知道最后怎么拼，才知道现在该拿什么素材。这一条能省掉你项目里一半的返工。
- 声音先于画面。做视频、做演讲、做产品演示，先把声音做对，人的大脑会自己补上画面。
- 失败之后留一个“筛灰”的动作。别急着下结论说这件事失败了，先写下三个问题：我拿到了什么没预期的东西？这个过程里出现了哪两个新方向？哪一条可以直接变成下一个项目？
- 每天写日记，一年一个文件。同时尽可能多拍视频和照片，尤其是家人。十年后你唯一能回去的地方，就是这些文件。
- 主动靠近比你强一大截的人，别只跟同级混。哪怕只是站在旁边看，那种“原来没有捷径”的发现，比任何教程都有用。
- 别人朝你扔石头的时候，记住那句：你只要不眨眼。
最后一条他自己是这么实践的。1992 年那个不会说西班牙语、拿着租来的 16 毫米摄影机、一个镜头只敢拍一遍的人，没有等自己准备好。他后来说，大多数人的墓志铭上应该写：“此人长眠于此，他一直没有准备好。”
I write the script in December.
我十二月写剧本。
00:00 January, Josh Arnett, Marley Shelton, come down, fly Frank in.
一月，乔什·阿内特、马利·谢尔顿，下来，带弗兰克飞进来。
Shooting for 10 hours on my green screen.
在我的绿幕上拍摄了 10 个小时。
We shoot that opening sequence, incredible opening sequence and the visual Look, we’ve never seen that.
我们拍摄了开场片段，令人难以置信的开场片段和视觉效果，我们从未见过。
I want to just take this and make it move.
我只想抓住这个并让它动起来。
I just want the comic to move.
我只是想让漫画动起来。
Any other studio would just go make it look like any gritty crime movie, and they would miss the point that the visual is half of it.
任何其他工作室都会让它看起来像任何一部坚韧的犯罪电影，他们会忽略视觉效果只是其中一半的这一点。
I want it to look just like this because it would be the boldest movie anyone’s seen because that’s how it reads when I read the book.
我希望它看起来像这样，因为这将是任何人看过的最大胆的电影，因为我读这本书时就是这样读的。
It’s like, if this was moving, it would be the most phenomenal movie.
就好像，如果这很感人，那将是最非凡的电影。
Just by being around him and working with him you get by osmosis, you learn stuff and it just ups your game because they’re just swing way beyond you.
只要在他身边并与他一起工作，你就能通过潜移默化，学到东西，这只会提高你的游戏水平，因为他们远远超出你的范围。
00:41 Jim Cameron was like that.
吉姆·卡梅隆就是这样的人。
So when I first met him, I was trying to impress the hell out of him because I was such a big fan.
所以当我第一次见到他时，我试图给他留下深刻的印象，因为我是他的忠实粉丝。
I was about to go do Desperado and I went, “Hey, I just took a three-day Steadicam course because I can’t afford a Steadicam operator, so I’m going to operate Steadicam myself on Desperado.” Now if he was just my peer, he’d say, “Oh, I did the same thing,” and I’m going to do the same thing.
我正要去拍《亡命之徒》，我说：“嘿，我刚刚参加了为期三天的斯坦尼康课程，因为我买不起斯坦尼康操作员，所以我要自己在《亡命之徒》中操作斯坦尼康。”现在，如果他只是我的同事，他会说，“哦，我做了同样的事情，”我也会做同样的事情。
That would be hanging out with somebody of your I, but you want somebody who’s above that.
那会是和你的某个人一起出去玩，但你想要一个比你更优秀的人。
Do you know what he said?
你知道他说了什么吗？
He goes, “I bought about a Steadicam, but not to operate it.
他说：“我买了一台斯坦尼康，但不是为了操作它。
I’m going to take it apart and design a better one.
我要把它拆开并设计一个更好的。
Us mere mortals trying to learn how to operate the camera.
我们这些凡人试图学习如何操作相机。
He’s designing all new systems.
他正在设计所有新系统。
That’s the guy you want to hang out with, not someone who’s doing what you’re doing.
那是你想一起出去玩的人，而不是正在做你正在做的事情的人。
01:20 We put so much of the world around them.
我们把太多的世界放在他们周围。
When you see the city, we put a blue screen way in the back to just make the city keep going, but we built the sets there, the town, we built the real set.
当你看到城市时，我们在后面放了一个蓝屏，让城市继续运转，但我们在那里建造了布景，城镇，我们建造了真实的布景。
So everything was very tangible and real, and that way she had to fit into that world and be as real as that because if it was all done in CG, well then now you can fudge everything.
所以一切都是非常有形和真实的，这样她就必须融入那个世界并变得如此真实，因为如果这一切都是在 CG 中完成的，那么现在你可以捏造一切了。
But if you put her in a real environment, that’s a real challenge.
但如果你把她放在真实的环境中，那就是一个真正的挑战。
And just like with our movies, you watch it all fall apart, you watch this thing blow up, you watch this thing not work, everything just falls apart in front of your face.
就像我们的电影一样，你看着它全部崩溃，你看着这个东西爆炸，你看着这个东西不起作用，一切都在你面前崩溃。
Then that’s when you roll up your sleeves and creatively figure out a way around it and by the end, you have a result that’s better than what you sought out.
然后，当你卷起袖子，创造性地找出解决方法时，到最后，你会得到比你想要的更好的结果。
Sift through the ashes of your failure and you’ll find the key to your next success is in there.
仔细审视你失败的灰烬，你会发现你下一次成功的关键就在那里。
But if you’re not looking for it, you don’t find it.
但如果你不寻找它，你就找不到它。
The following is a conversation with Robert Rodriguez, a legendary filmmaker and creator of Sin City, El Mariachi, Desperado, Spy Kids, Machete from Dust Till Dawn, Alita, Battle Angel, The Faculty, and many more.
以下是与传奇电影制片人和《罪恶之城》、《流浪乐队》、《亡命之徒》、《间谍小子》、《杀出个黎明》中的弯刀、《阿丽塔》、《战斗天使》、《TheFaculty》等作品的创作者罗伯特·罗德里格斯的对话。
02:07 Robert inspired a generation of independent filmmakers with his first film, El Mariachi, that he famously made for just $7,000.
罗伯特的第一部电影《El Mariachi》激励了一代独立电影制作人，他以仅 7,000 美元的成本制作了这部电影。
On that film in many sense, he was not only the director, he was also the writer, producer, cinematographer, editor, visual effects supervisor, sound designer, composer, basically the full stack of filmmaking.
从很多意义上来说，在那部电影中，他不仅是导演，他还是编剧、制片人、摄影师、剪辑师、视觉效果总监、声音设计师、作曲家，基本上是电影制作的全部。
He has shown incredible versatility across genres including action horror, family films and sci-fi with some epic collaborations with Quentin Tarantino, James Cameron, and many other legendary actors and filmmakers.
他在动作恐怖片、家庭片和科幻片等各种类型上表现出了令人难以置信的多才多艺，并与昆汀·塔伦蒂诺、詹姆斯·卡梅隆和许多其他传奇演员和电影制片人进行了一些史诗般的合作。
He has often operated at the technological cutting edge, pioneering, using HD filmmaking, digital backlots and 3D tech, and always through all of that, he’s been a champion of independent filmmaking, running his own studio here in Austin, Texas, which in many ways is very far away from Hollywood.
他经常在技术前沿进行开拓，使用高清电影制作、数字外景和 3D 技术，通过这一切，他一直是独立电影制作的拥护者，在德克萨斯州奥斯汀经营着自己的工作室，从很多方面来说，这里距离好莱坞都很远。
03:25 He’s building a new thing now called Brass Knuckle Films where he’s opening up the filmmaking process so that fans can be a part of it as he creates his next four action films.
他正在打造一家新公司，现在名为“指节铜套电影”(Brass Knuckle Films)，他正在开放电影制作流程，以便粉丝在他创作接下来的四部动作片时能够参与其中。
I’ll probably go hang out at his film studio a bunch as this is all coming to life.
我可能会经常去他的电影工作室闲逛，因为这一切都将成为现实。
His work has inspired a very large number of people, including me to be more creative in whatever pursuit you take on in life and have fun doing it.
他的作品激励了很多人，包括我，让你在生活中的任何追求中变得更有创造力，并享受其中的乐趣。
This is the Lex Fridman podcast.
这是莱克斯·弗里德曼播客。
To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description.
为了支持它，请在说明中查看我们的赞助商。
And now, dear friends, here’s Robert Rodriguez.
现在，亲爱的朋友们，这是罗伯特·罗德里格斯。
04:06 Has there been a time when there was one take and you only have one take to get it right?
是否曾经有过这样的情况：只有一次拍摄，而您只有一次拍摄才能把它做好？
Oh, all the time where you’re just like, or just how long it’ll take to reset and you’re just, but then you know what?
哦，一直以来，你都只是想，或者只是需要多长时间才能重置，然后你知道吗？
04:12 You got to just work with what you got.
你必须用你所拥有的来工作。
You got to work with your results.
你必须根据你的结果来工作。
You get nervous or no in that moment?
那一刻你是否紧张？
Oh yeah, you’re nervous going just, “I hope it goes off because then to fix it, I’ll have to go do a bunch of other steps, which we don’t have time for.” But a lot of times I’ve just learned that if something happens, it’s just meant to be that way.
哦，是的，你很紧张，只是说，“我希望它能消失，因为要修复它，我必须去做一些其他步骤，但我们没有时间。”但很多时候我才知道，如果发生了什么事，那就注定是这样的。
04:25 And I got used to doing things in one take and just living with it.
我习惯了一次完成所有事情并接受它。
It didn’t bother me.
这并没有困扰我。
04:42 One movie, it was even a low budget movie, they had rigged a car to implode because I was going to throw a guy at it, so we needed the car to implode and then we were going to throw them and marry it together.
一部电影，甚至是一部低预算的电影，他们操纵了一辆汽车爆炸，因为我要把一个人扔到它身上，所以我们需要汽车爆炸，然后我们要把它们扔在一起，然后把它们结合在一起。
The car guy goes, “Yeah, we’re going to have three cars rigged.” “Three cars?
汽车司机说：“是的，我们要装备三辆车。” “三辆车？
Why you…” “Well in case one doesn’t work, and then we have a second way throwing away.” “We don’t have all night to go shoot take after take we’re doing Just give one car and if it doesn’t work, we’ll figure it out,” because you don’t have time to do it again.
为什么你……”“好吧，万一一个不起作用，那么我们还有第二种扔掉的方法。 “我们没有整夜的时间去拍摄一个又一个的镜头，我们正在做的只是给一辆车，如果它不起作用，我们会想办法，”因为你没有时间再做一次。
Sometimes it’s such a long setup.
有时设置会很长。
So I go, “No, I’m good with just going…” In Grindhouse movie.
所以我说，“不，我很乐意去……”在《刑房》电影中。
They only had one take.
他们只有一次拍摄。
So that’ll make it more authentic.
所以这会让它更真实。
When it all goes to shit, when it fails you just, what’s the next thought?
当一切都变得糟糕时，当它让你失败时，下一个想法是什么？
So I’ll tell you, two things happen on Dusk Till Dawn.
所以我告诉你，《杀出个黎明》中发生了两件事。
05:23 First was, okay, you know how those explosions when somebody walks away in slow motion from an explosion, that’s become kind of even that started with Desperado Desperado’s the first, if you look at all the montages, Desperado’s first.
首先，好吧，你知道，当有人以慢动作从爆炸中走开时，这些爆炸就变得有点像从《亡命之徒》开始的《亡命之徒》的第一个，如果你看一下所有的蒙太奇，《亡命之徒》的第一个。
That’s right.
没错。
That’s right.
没错。
That is the meme because it was an accident.
这就是模因，因为这是一次意外。
It was just supposed to be, it was just two grenades, not a nuclear bomb.
应该是的，只是两枚手榴弹，不是核弹。
It throws them over the side and I just wanted some body parts or something to fly up some shrapnel.
它把它们扔到一边，我只是想要一些身体部位或其他东西飞上一些弹片。
It literally says shrapnel and my effects guy was so running so ragged.
它字面意思是弹片和我的特效人员跑得如此狼狈。
05:51 We get to there and I go, “Do you have any body parts and stuff we can throw up or something you can shoot up.
我们到了那里，我说：“你有没有任何身体部位和我们可以扔掉的东西，或者你可以发射的东西。
“I didn’t realize it’s so high to get past that second floor.” And he’s like, “No, I don’t.
“我没想到二楼这么高。”他说：“不，我不。
I can give you a fireball.
我可以给你一个火球术。
I can give you a nice fireball with propane, but it burns away really quick.” “Like how fast?” “Like that but it’ll be big and orange.” “Okay, we’ll shoot it in slow motion so it lasts a little longer because it just goes poof.”
我可以用丙烷给你一个很好的火球，但它燃烧得很快。” “比如多快？” “就像那样，但它会很大，而且是橙色的。” “好吧，我们会用慢动作拍摄，这样它会持续更长的时间，因为它会发出噗的一声。”
06:15 So I told the actors, I know how big this fireball is going to be, but just walk really fast and just look real determined and then just keep walking.
所以我告诉演员们，我知道这个火球会有多大，但只要走得很快，看起来很坚定，然后继续走。
Don’t stop and turn around because you might get your eyebrows singed.
不要停下来转身，因为你的眉毛可能会被烧焦。
So they take off and it goes, and in slow motion, it looks great, right?
所以他们起飞了，然后就开始了，慢动作，看起来很棒，对吧？
I remember showing to Jim Cameron before it came out and his hand went up.
我记得在它出来之前向吉姆·卡梅隆展示过，他举起了手。
He’d never seen that before, six months later Dusk Till Dawn came out.
他以前从未见过这种情况，六个月后，《杀出个黎明》问世了。
So I liked how much it looked so much that in Dusk Till Dawn, I did it again.
所以我非常喜欢它的样子，所以在《杀出个黎明》中，我又做了一次。
So those movies came out within six months of each other.
所以这些电影都是在六个月内上映的。
That’s why it turned into a thing because people saw it.
这就是为什么它变成了一个东西，因为人们看到了它。
06:46 And so I thought, “How about for the opening of George Clooney and Quentin walking out of the gas station that we have the whole place just blowing up and they just keep talking like it’s not happening.
所以我想，“乔治·克鲁尼和昆汀走出加油站的开幕式怎么样？我们整个地方都炸了，他们只是一直说话，就像这没有发生一样。
Take it another step further so I’m not just doing the same thing.
更进一步，这样我就不会只是做同样的事情。
Okay, that one, it’s like, “Okay, you’re going to walk out and it’s all in one take.
好吧，那个，就像是，“好吧，你要走出去，这一切都是一次完成的。
So we’re only going to do one take.
所以我们只会拍一次。
We’re going to blow the thing up.
我们要把它炸毁。
We’re going to start with just some smaller explosions.
我们将从一些较小的爆炸开始。
Then when they’re further away and it’s safer, then we’ll do the big fireballs.” So we’re going and you’re nervous if one of them trips up a line and the pressure’s on them, it’s not just you that’s nervous, you’re nervous for them.
然后当他们距离更远并且更安全时，我们就会发射大火球。”所以我们要去，如果他们中的一个绊倒了，他们就会承受压力，你会感到紧张，不仅仅是你紧张，你也为他们感到紧张。
They’re the ones who got to walk out, do that whole speech, get in the car and drive away.
他们必须走出去，完成整个演讲，然后上车开走。
What if the car doesn’t star?
如果车没有星星怎么办？
There’s a lot of things that could happen.
有很多事情可能发生。
07:32 Well guess what happens?
那么猜猜会发生什么？
The thing you would not expect, they go in, they come out, they start talking, shoot it perfect, great, we can move on.
你想不到的事情，他们进去，他们出来，他们开始说话，拍得完美，太棒了，我们可以继续前进。
And the camera guy goes, I don’t know what happened, but just like you had a little snafu here he goes, we have an auto-focus on the Steadicam.
摄像师说，我不知道发生了什么，但就像你在这里遇到了一点混乱一样，我们在斯坦尼康上进行了自动对焦。
We have a focus thing.
我们有一个重点。
It just went like this, I felt it go whack all the way out of focus and whack for a second back.
事情就是这样，我感觉它一路失去了焦点，然后又重又回来了。
It just reset itself.
它只是自行重置。
We don’t know why it did that because it’s radio-controlled and we can’t tell because we’re shooting film.
我们不知道它为什么这么做，因为它是无线电控制的，而且我们无法判断，因为我们正在拍摄电影。
So we’re like, “Oh, shit.
所以我们就像，“哦，该死。
Let’s watch the dailies.
我们来看看日报吧。
Sure enough, let’s see if we can, maybe I can scratch the film right there.” No, it goes completely out focus and back in focus within a second.
果然，让我们看看是否可以，也许我可以在那里刮掉胶卷。”不，它会在一秒钟内完全失焦并重新聚焦。
Now we got to res-hoot it.
现在我们必须重新拍摄它。
So we had to wait till we’re back in that location.
所以我们必须等到回到那个位置。
We rigged it for two more takes just in case.
为了以防万一，我们又安排了两次拍摄。
So that thing that was supposed to be the one take is three takes.
所以本来应该是一次拍摄的事情变成了三次拍摄。
08:26 The other thing that happened was the front of the Dusk Till Dawn bar, that same guy that did those explosions, he packed a bunch of explosives behind the actors.
发生的另一件事是在黄昏杀戮黎明酒吧的前面，就是那个制造爆炸的人，他在演员后面装了一堆炸药。
When the actors come running out of the bar at the end of the movie and there’s an explosion through the door because all the vampires are blowing up.
电影结束时，当演员们跑出酒吧时，门外发生了爆炸，因为所有的吸血鬼都被炸毁了。
He didn’t put like 10 times the amount of stuff.
他没有放10倍的东西。
It blew out, you see it in the movie.
它爆炸了，你在电影中看到它。
You see this huge fireball going up and if you watch closely, you see it already start to catch the whole place on fire.
你会看到这个巨大的火球升起，如果你仔细观察，你会发现它已经开始让整个地方着火。
The whole front of that, which is foam, is catching on fire, and I cut just before you see that it’s on fire, and that was the first shot at that bar because we weren’t going to start shooting the other stuff till night.
泡沫的整个前部着火了，我在你看到它着火之前就剪掉了，这是那个酒吧的第一枪，因为我们要到晚上才开始拍摄其他东西。
09:10 So first shot is that, and the set’s ruined, burned to a crisp.
所以第一个镜头就是这样，布景就被毁了，烧得一干二净。
The neon lights blew up.
霓虹灯炸开了。
So we couldn’t even, Cheech goes, “Well, I guess I’m not doing my speech tonight,” but right away, this is what happens.
所以我们甚至不能，奇奇说，“好吧，我想我今晚不会做演讲，”但马上，这就是发生的事情。
My first AD, Doug Arnikowski comes over to me and I go over to him.
我的第一个广告人道格·阿尼科夫斯基 (Doug Arnikowski) 向我走来，我也向他走去。
Guys came out with the fire hoses.
伙计们带着消防水带出来了。
The fire hoses weren’t even any water.
消防水龙带里连水都没有。
The thing was just scorching.
那东西简直是灼热的。
The whole production design team was in tears because they had just spent weeks building this thing and it was up in smoke and charred.
整个生产设计团队都泪流满面，因为他们刚刚花了几周时间建造这个东西，但它已经化为灰烬。
I said, “Let’s just keep shooting.
我说：“我们继续拍吧。
Let’s just keep shooting because it looks really kind of cool like this.”
让我们继续拍摄吧，因为这样看起来真的很酷。”
09:51 Yeah, they’re going to have to come repair it and we’ll have to come back, but it’s all black and charred.
是的，他们必须来修理它，我们也必须回来，但它全是黑色和烧焦的。
That’s why that whole scene with George Clooney and Cheech and the building’s black, we didn’t go over there and touch that up.
这就是为什么乔治克鲁尼和奇奇的整个场景以及建筑物是黑色的，我们没有去那里修改它。
That’s real flame that burned and it ended up looking great.
那是真正的火焰在燃烧，最终看起来很棒。
So then the next week when we came back to shoot that other shot that didn’t work, we came back and they had repaired it and we shot all the night stuff, which is the majority of the stuff in front of it.
所以下周，当我们回来拍摄另一个不起作用的镜头时，我们回来了，他们已经修复了它，我们拍摄了所有夜间的东西，这是它前面的大部分东西。
So sometimes you got to roll with it and look at the blessing you get because of there’s a mistake.
所以有时候你必须顺其自然，看看你因为错误而得到的祝福。
You probably actually got a better take by doing it later with them.
稍后再和他们一起做，你可能会得到更好的理解。
And then you had this incredible look for the end of the movie that looked apocalyptic.
然后电影的结尾呈现出令人难以置信的世界末日景象。
If it had looked just clean, you would’ve actually seen that it was kind of a foam set.
如果它看起来很干净，你实际上会看到它是一种泡沫套装。
This made it look better.
这使它看起来更好。
So I kind of let the universe push you where you’re supposed to go.
所以我有点让宇宙把你推到你应该去的地方。
Just roll with it.
随它滚动吧。
You got to roll with it because you don’t know what the grand plan is.
你必须顺其自然，因为你不知道宏伟的计划是什么。
10:35 You have your plan, just know it’s probably all going to fall apart.
你有自己的计划，只是知道这一切可能都会失败。
It’s just like the movies, you come up with your plan of what you want to accomplish.
就像电影一样，你想出你想要完成的计划。
That’s like your script.
这就像你的剧本。
Then you go scout your location and figure out what your project’s going to be and you go try to make it as bulletproof as possible.
然后你去勘察你的位置，弄清楚你的项目将是什么，然后你尝试让它尽可能地安全。
Then you go to do your project and just like with our movies, you watch it all fall apart.
然后你去做你的项目，就像我们的电影一样，你看着它全部崩溃。
You watch this thing blow up, you watch this thing not work, everything just falls apart in front of your face.
你看着这东西爆炸，你看着这东西不起作用，一切都在你面前分崩离析。
Then that’s when you roll up your sleeves and creatively figure out a way around it.
然后你就会卷起袖子，创造性地找出解决办法。
You turn chickenshit into a chicken salad and by the end you have a result that’s better than what you saw it out.
你把鸡屎变成了鸡肉沙拉，最后你得到的结果比你看到的要好。
11:12 But that’s the process and that’s life and that’s wash, rinse, repeat the rest of your life.
但这就是这个过程，这就是生活，这就是洗涤、漂洗、重复你的余生。
That’s what everything’s going to be like.
一切都会是这样的。
It’s just like a movie because when you think about it, you’re writing a story for a film and you’re also writing the story of your life at the same time.
这就像一部电影，因为当你思考它时，你正在为电影写一个故事，同时你也在写你的生活故事。
How are you going to react to things?
你会对事情做出什么反应？
Well, how do you make your character react to things?
那么，你如何让你的角色对事物做出反应呢？
You make him kind of super human.
你让他成为了一个超人。
Why don’t you just make yourself that way?
你为什么不把自己变成那样呢？
You’re writing your own story and you start really seeing, the more you get into storytelling that life imitates art and art limitates life.
你在写自己的故事，你开始真正看到，你越深入地讲故事，生活模仿艺术，艺术限制生活。
But the process is also the same.
但过程也是一样的。
So you write the story, the script, and then you have it collide with the chaos of reality.
所以你写了故事、剧本，然后让它与混乱的现实发生碰撞。
11:41 And in that moment when you said you see the chickenshit, you have to be able to keep your eyes open.
当你说你看到了鸡屎的那一刻，你必须能够睁大眼睛。
You have to do that.
你必须这样做。
The notice-
通知书——
You have to do that.
你必须这样做。
Wait a minute, okay, stuff changed.
等一下，好吧，事情发生了变化。
11:55 It’s discipline.
这是纪律。
Where’s the, not to be cliche about it, but where’s the silver lining of this?
不是陈词滥调，但一线希望在哪里呢？
Where’s the path to actually make something good out of this?
真正从中获得好处的途径在哪里？
And that’s a skill, right?
这是一项技能，对吧？
I call It, and it’s one of my favorite stories.
我称之为它，这是我最喜欢的故事之一。
12:04 I was doing one of these talks and I said, come talk about creativity.
我当时正在做其中一场演讲，我说，来谈谈创造力吧。
I go, I understand because a lot of people read my book, Reels had a crew and told me, “Ooh, it made me be a filmmaker.
我去，我理解，因为很多人读了我的书，Reels 有一个工作人员告诉我，“哦，它让我成为一名电影制片人。
But a lot of people said it helped me start my own business because they just see how you can go be entrepreneurial like that and go where no one else is going, and I’m giving all this talk about this kind of positive stuff and this one woman goes, you’re real positive.
但很多人说这帮助我开创了自己的事业，因为他们看到了如何能够像那样创业，去别人没有去过的地方，我正在谈论这种积极的事情，而这位女士说，你真的很积极。
But what do I tell myself when I just wasted a year and a half of my life doing something that didn’t work?
但是，当我浪费了一年半的生命去做一些不起作用的事情时，我该怎么告诉自己呢？
I was like, that’s a real negative way to ask that.
我当时想，这真是一种消极的提问方式。
Can you just rephrase the question a little more positively before I even attempt to answer it?
在我尝试回答这个问题之前，你能更积极地重新表述一下这个问题吗？
12:38 Because already her point of view is exactly what you’re saying.
因为她的观点已经和你所说的一样了。
She’s not looking at all.
她根本没在看。
She’s just concentrating on what didn’t follow her plan and not seeing the gift of everything else that’s there.
她只是专注于那些不符合她计划的事情，而没有看到其他一切的礼物。
So she goes very reluctant.
所以她走得很不情愿。
It was so perfect.
太完美了。
I wish we had filmed it.
我希望我们把它拍下来。
She goes, “I learned a good lesson the hard way,” and I said, “That still sucks.
她说，“我从惨痛的经历中学到了很好的教训，”我说，“那还是很糟糕。
I say, when you follow your instinct, if you follow your own instinct to go start a business or go make this movie, or it wasn’t someone saying, go over there and you’ll make a million dollars.
我说，当你跟随你的直觉时，如果你跟随自己的直觉去创业或者去拍这部电影，或者不是有人说，去那里，你就会赚一百万美元。
It was your instinct and you fail sometimes.
这是你的本能，有时你会失败。
The only way across the river is to slip on the first two rocks.
过河的唯一方法是从前两块岩石上滑行。
You fail.
你失败了。
You have to really sift through.” It’s like the silver lining, but I call it sift through the ashes of your failure and you’ll find the key to your next success is in there.
你必须真正地筛选。”这就像一线希望，但我称之为筛选失败的灰烬，你会发现下一次成功的关键就在那里。
But if you’re not looking for it, you don’t find it.
但如果你不寻找它，你就找不到它。
I’m going to tell you one, and I tell them the four room story.
我要告诉你一个，然后我告诉他们四个房间的故事。
I said, I made a movie called Four Rooms.
我说，我拍了一部电影，叫《四个房间》。
It didn’t make any money.
它没有赚到任何钱。
When Quentin asked me, Hey, do you want to make a movie with me and two other filmmakers?
当昆汀问我，嘿，你想和我和另外两位电影制片人一起拍一部电影吗？
It’s an anthology.
这是一本选集。
It’s on New Year’s Eve, it’s in a hotel.
那是除夕夜，在一家酒店。
You have to use the bill.
你必须使用账单。
We’re not going to know what each other’s making and we make it and we put it together.
我们不会知道彼此在做什么，但我们会制造它并将其组合在一起。
The hand went up right away, just instinctually.
那只手立刻就本能地举了起来。
That sounds, yeah, I’ll do that.
听起来，是的，我会这么做。
I’ll go make that with you.
我去和你一起做。
Now, should I ask the audience, I like to throw it to the audience and her.
现在，我应该问观众吗？我喜欢把它抛给观众和她。
Should I have not raised my hand that quick?
我不应该那么快举手吗？
Shouldn’t I have done a little studying first or should I just go blind instinct?
我不应该先做一点研究还是应该盲目地本能？
Or should you do instinct with some studying?
或者你应该本能地进行一些学习？
14:06 Okay, well, I could have gone and studied and I would’ve found that anthologies never work.
好吧，好吧，我本来可以去研究一下，但我会发现选集从来没有用。
Even when it’s Coppola, Scorsese, Woody Allen, they bomb because people can’t quite rip the hand.
即使是科波拉、斯科塞斯、伍迪·艾伦，他们也会轰炸，因为人们无法完全撕开手。
What is this Twilight Zone?
这个暮光地带是什么？
I don’t want to go see that, but that’s not, I still said, “Yeah, I think I should still go by instinct.: So my instinct was to raise my hand.
我不想去看那个，但事实并非如此，我仍然说，“是的，我想我仍然应该凭本能去。”所以我的本能是举手。
We go make that movie because I love short films.
我们去拍那部电影是因为我喜欢短片。
I made bedhead and short films and I thought, oh, here’s aw .
我制作了床头和短片，我想，哦，这就是啊。
If this works, I can make short films in anthologies and I can have the best of both worlds.
如果这可行，我可以制作选集短片，并且可以两全其美。
And by the way, anthologies is when there’s multiple, multiple one story in one movie, one story, yeah, one movie.
顺便说一句，选集是指一部电影中有多个、多个同一个故事，一个故事，是的，一部电影。
14:34 So if you did the research, you would know that
所以如果你做了研究，你就会知道
Very few
很少
.People
.人
Ever
曾经
14:42 Got that to work.
让它发挥作用。
Yeah, the audience can’t quite wrap their end, and then it feels like the movie’s starting three times.
是的，观众无法完全结束他们的结局，然后感觉电影开始了三遍。
So I make that movie, it bombs.
所以我拍了那部电影，它很轰动。
Now I could feel real bad about that, but if you really think about it, you go, “Well, why did I sign up for it?
现在我可能对此感到非常难过，但如果你认真思考一下，你就会说：“好吧，我为什么要报名参加？
Did I raise my hand because I thought it was going to go be this big financial success?
我举手是因为我认为这会取得巨大的财务成功吗？
No, I did it to work with my friends to do something creative, to try something, but that’s still not good enough.
不，我这样做是为了和朋友们一起做一些有创意的事情，尝试一些东西，但这仍然不够好。
I need to really sift through the ashes and if I looked through the ashes of that failure, I find two keys to my biggest successes in there.
我需要真正地筛选出失败的灰烬，如果我仔细审视那次失败的灰烬，我会发现其中有两个我最大成功的关键。
While I was on the set, they said, it has to be new.
当我在片场时，他们说，它必须是新的。
So I thought, I’m just going to do like bedhead.
所以我想，我就做个卧床不起的人吧。
I’m going to have two little kids that are running around in this room and we have to use the bellhop as a babysitter.
我将有两个小孩在这个房间里跑来跑去，我们必须使用侍者作为保姆。
15:26 Well, it’s New Year’s.
嗯，现在是新年。
Let’s dress everybody in tuxedos because it’s New Year’s.
让我们给每个人都穿上燕尾服，因为今天是新年。
They’re all going to go out, but the parents leave without them.
他们都要出去，但父母却独自离开。
When I saw Antonio and his wife, I thought, wow, they look like a really cool international spy couple.
当我看到安东尼奥和他的妻子时，我想，哇，他们看起来真是一对很酷的国际间谍夫妇。
What if they were spies and these two little kids, one of them keeps falling asleep on the set.
如果他们是间谍和这两个小孩，其中一个在片场一直睡着怎么办？
He’s so young, they barely tie their shoes.
他太年轻了，他们几乎不系鞋带。
They don’t know.
他们不知道。
Parents are spies.
父母都是间谍。
They have to go save them.
他们必须去救他们。
Okay, there’s five of those movies now.
好吧，现在有五部电影了。
15:47 The other one was, I really love making short films.
另一件是，我真的很喜欢制作短片。
I really want this anthology thing to work.
我真的希望这个选集能够发挥作用。
What if it’s three stories, like a three-act structure, not four, same director, not four different directors.
如果是三个故事，就像三幕结构，而不是四个故事，同一位导演，而不是四位不同的导演，该怎么办？
I’m going to try it again.
我要再试一次。
Why on earth would I try it again?
我到底为什么要再试一次？
Well, because I had already done one and figured out how I could do it better, and that’s Sin City.
嗯，因为我已经做了一个，并且想出了如何可以做得更好，那就是《罪恶之城》。
Those are by far two of my biggest successes that came directly from that failure.
这是迄今为止我最大的两个成功，它们直接来自于那次失败。
So I always say, follow your instinct.
所以我总是说，跟随你的直觉。
If it doesn’t work, just go.
如果这不起作用，那就走吧。
Sometimes the only way across the river is to slip on the first two rocks.
有时，过河的唯一方法是从前两块岩石上滑倒。
So where’s the key in that?
那么其中的关键在哪里呢？
The ashes of the failure.
失败的灰烬。
Because if I had an instinct, that means I was on the right track.
因为如果我有直觉，那就意味着我走在正确的道路上。
I didn’t get the result I want.
我没有得到我想要的结果。
That’s because the result might be something way bigger that I don’t have the vision for, and the universe is pushing me that way.
那是因为结果可能是一些我没有愿景的更大的事情，而宇宙正在推动我这样做。
By the way, a lot of people that look back to four rooms see a lot of creative genius in there.
顺便说一句，很多人回顾四个房间时都会发现里面有很多创意天才。
16:34 So you say it flopped,
所以你说它失败了，
It flopped financially.
它在财务上失败了。
Financially, but there’s so many ways to measure a fiscally” totally success movie.
从财务角度来看，衡量一部在财务上“完全成功”的电影有很多方法。
But like I said, I would say, “Well, it was successful because even Roger Ebert said, Hey, you furnished my favorite room.
但就像我说的，我会说，“好吧，它很成功，因为连罗杰·艾伯特都说，嘿，你布置了我最喜欢的房间。
16:47 I was like, Hey, I could take that, but now.
我当时想，嘿，我可以接受，但是现在。
I think there’s something else still there.
我认为还有其他东西存在。
I keep sifting and it’s like, oh yeah, two big successes came from.
我不断地筛选，就像，哦，是的，有两个巨大的成功。
That’s amazing lesson to have because it makes you feel better about failure.
这是一个很棒的教训，因为它让你对失败感觉更好。
Think of the thing by John Carpenter.
想想约翰·卡彭特的那件事。
You put that movie out the same weekend as E.T.
你和《E.T.》在同一个周末上映了这部电影。
I think bombed critics were calling it pornography because of all the weird special effects and audiences didn’t go either, and he thought he made a great movie.
我认为被轰炸的评论家称其为色情片，因为所有奇怪的特效，观众也没有去看，而他认为自己拍了一部很棒的电影。
So it makes you question your instincts.
所以这会让你质疑自己的直觉。
Well, 10 years later, it turns out, oh, it’s a classic.
嗯，十年后，事实证明，哦，这是一个经典。
So sometimes it takes the audience a while.
所以有时候观众需要一段时间。
So if you have some kind of failure on something, you don’t let it knock you down.
因此，如果你在某件事上遇到某种失败，你不要让它击倒你。
17:32 Just go.
走吧。
Maybe in 10 years they’ll think it’s great.
也许十年后他们会认为这很棒。
I’m just going to commit to making a body of work, a body of work.
我只会致力于创作一系列作品，一系列作品。
Some will succeed, some will over-perform, some will underperform.
有些人会成功，有些人会表现出色，有些人会表现不佳。
It’s not your job.
这不是你的工作。
You just want to be a creative person.
你只想成为一个有创造力的人。
Just create, stop thinking about movie per movie and worrying so much about each one or project to project.
只要创作，不要再考虑每一部电影，也不要太担心每一部电影或每个项目。
If you’re a business person, just commit to making a body of work like an artist would do, and you don’t know what the masterpieces are going to be or which someone’s going to come and say, “Oh, that one that bombed there is some really creative stuff in there.” It’s not for you to decide.
如果你是一名商人，只要像艺术家那样致力于创作一系列作品，你不知道杰作会是什么，也不知道哪个人会过来说，“哦，那个轰炸的作品里面有一些真正有创意的东西。”这不是由你决定的。
You just go and do it.
你就去做吧。
Sometimes I think it takes some time to process the failure to make sense of it, at least for me, don’t rush making sense of what didn’t work, what lessons do I take from it, how do I sit through the ashes?
有时候我觉得需要一些时间来处理失败并理解它，至少对我来说，不要急于理解什么不起作用，我应该从中吸取什么教训，我该如何度过灰烬？
18:09 As you said, it takes time.
正如你所说，这需要时间。
You have to sleep on it a bunch of nights.
你必须在上面睡上好几个晚上。
Sometimes it’s right there and then sometimes you come back, revisit it later.
有时它就在那里，有时你会回来，稍后再看。
18:28 You might not have had some information you have now that makes you look at it a lot differently.
您现在可能没有获得一些使您以不同的方式看待它的信息。
When I did, I just did the audiobook for Rebel Without a Crew.
当我这样做的时候，我刚刚制作了《Rebel Without a Crew》的有声读物。
Which I thank you for that, by the way.
顺便说一句，我为此感谢你。
I hadn’t read it since I wrote it, so I didn’t remember a lot of the details.
自从写完之后我就没有读过它，所以我不记得很多细节了。
And you actually, it’s voiced by you.
事实上，这是由你配音的。
I voiced it so I was reading it real time.
我说出了它，所以我正在实时阅读它。
Yeah, I highly recommend people because you comment, you add additional commas to it.
是的，我强烈推荐人们，因为你评论，你添加了额外的逗号。
18:51 It’s great.
这很棒。
Most of the time I’m laughing because I can’t believe how crazy that story is.
大多数时候我都在笑，因为我不敢相信这个故事有多么疯狂。
18:56 I forgot a lot of details.
我忘记了很多细节。
And when you’re younger, when you’re 21, 22, six months feels like six years.
当你更年轻的时候，当你21岁、22岁的时候，六个月感觉就像六年。
I didn’t realize how short that window was until I reread it and how impossible most of that is.
直到我重读它，我才意识到这个窗口有多短，而且其中大部分是多么不可能。
But you see some places where a setup falls in my lap and then pays off immediately in a big way like magic over and over again.
但你会看到有些地方，一个设置落在我的腿上，然后立即获得巨大的回报，就像一次又一次的魔法一样。
It’s clear I don’t know what I’m doing.
很明显我不知道自己在做什么。
It’s clear the universe is just pushing you places so you can’t fight it.
很明显，宇宙只是把你推到一个地方，让你无法反抗。
Because I remember I was really disappointed and it says in the diary, I’m really bummed that I go home that Christmas, not having sold it to the Spanish home video market, which was my goal.
因为我记得我真的很失望，日记里写着，我真的很沮丧那个圣诞节我回家了，没有把它卖给西班牙家庭视频市场，这是我的目标。
I walked home penniless and I was like, “Merry Christmas.
我身无分文地走回家，心想：“圣诞快乐。
I feel like a freaking failure.”
我感觉自己是个彻头彻尾的失败者。”
19:37 Good thing I didn’t sell it then.
还好我当时没卖掉。
With time, you look back and you go, wow, I got an agent the next month.
随着时间的推移，当你回头看时，你会发现，哇，下个月我就找到了经纪人。
He wasn’t even going to help me sell it.
他甚至不打算帮我卖掉它。
He said, “Oh, if you can get $20,000 for it, take it.” I chased those people down for those contracts, Spanish market for months, and they never answered me back.
他说：“哦，如果你能卖到 20,000 美元，就买吧。”我在西班牙市场上追寻这些人几个月的合同，但他们从未回复我。
And then Columbia ended up buying it for 10 times as much, and we released it and did a sequel and did another sequel.
然后哥伦比亚最终以 10 倍的价格买下了它，我们发行了它并制作了续集，又制作了另一部续集。
If you look back in time, good thing I didn’t get my way.
如果你回顾过去，还好我没有如愿以偿。
My way had this for revision and it needed to do that, which you would never know.
我的方式有这个需要修改，并且需要这样做，这是你永远不会知道的。
You don’t know that going through.
你不知道正在经历的事情。
20:14 So just if you don’t have the answer right away, or even in 10 years, go, well, maybe it’s coming in 20 years.
所以，如果你不能立即找到答案，甚至 10 年后也找不到答案，那就去吧，好吧，也许 20 年后就会出现。
Don’t let anything slow you down.
不要让任何事情减慢你的速度。
Just keep plowing forward.
只要继续耕耘前进。
Committing to making your thing happen.
致力于让你的事情发生。
Don’t get shook up by something that you might not have an answer for.
不要因为你可能无法回答的事情而感到震惊。
Every aspect of your journey is super inspiring.
你旅程的每个方面都非常鼓舞人心。
20:29 We’ll talk about it.
我们会讨论它。
Let’s go to the beginning because there’s a few technical things that are fascinating about your beginning.
让我们从头开始吧，因为开头有一些令人着迷的技术问题。
So you started making films when you were very young with an old Super 8 camera and you were editing on a VCR.
所以你在很小的时候就开始用一台旧的 Super 8 摄像机拍电影，并在录像机上进行剪辑。
You see, I’ve met a lot of filmmakers who they start a certain way, but then they finish another way.
你看，我见过很多电影制片人，他们以某种方式开始，但后来又以另一种方式结束。
20:43 They get to be big filmmakers and all that.
他们会成为大电影制片人等等。
I still do it that way.
我现在仍然这样做。
I like doing things that way.
我喜欢那样做事。
I have a new company called Brass Knuckle Films where the audience can actually participate by being investing investors in these movies that are done the same way.
我有一家名为 Brass Knuckle Films 的新公司，观众可以通过投资投资者来实际参与这些以同样方式制作的电影。
They’re action films like we did with Mariachi, but 10 to 30 million.
它们是动作片，就像我们制作的墨西哥流浪乐队一样，但票房为 10 到 3000 万。
It doesn’t take a lot of money to start a billion-dollar franchise.
启动价值十亿美元的特许经营权并不需要很多钱。
John Wick only cost $20 million, the first one.
第一部《疾速追杀》只花费了 2000 万美元。
Second one was 40, third one was 80, fourth one was a hundred because the audience kept growing and growing.
第二个是40个，第三个是80个，第四个是100个，因为观众不断增加。
By the way you say $20 million, it’s not a lot of money.
顺便说一句，2000万美元并不是很多钱。
It’s not for an action film.
这不是一部动作片。
That’s right.
这是正确的。
21:24 But also we should say that El Mariachi, the film on which the book Rebel Without a Crew is a $7,000 dollar movie.
但我们还应该说《El Mariachi》，这部电影是一部价值 7,000 美元的电影，其中《Rebel Without a Crew》一书的原型。
So let’s put it all in context.
所以让我们把这一切放在上下文中。
But you’re going to hire bigger actors.
但你会聘请更大的演员。
21:34 You can get a big actor like Keanu Reeves for a $20 million movie.
一部 2000 万美元的电影可以请到像基努·里维斯这样的大牌演员。
I asked Jim, I said, Jim Cameron, I said, “Terminator cost $5 million.” And he goes, “I wish we had that much.” He had less than $5 million for that.
我问吉姆，我说，吉姆卡梅隆，我说，“终结者花了 500 万美元。”他说：“我希望我们有这么多。”他的资金还不到 500 万美元。
So you can start a billion-dollar franchise using these methods, and with the audience investing, they get to make money on them.
因此，您可以使用这些方法启动价值数十亿美元的特许经营权，并通过观众投资，他们可以从中赚钱。
And what I’m going to say now about how I started, you see that DNA of how I give out.
我现在要说的是我是如何开始的，你可以看到我如何付出的 DNA。
I want people to know how I did things with Rebel Without a Crew or with these methods that I started with.
我想让人们知道我是如何用《无船员的叛逆》或我一开始使用的这些方法做事的。
You see, that’s how we kept going.
你看，我们就是这样继续前进的。
Hollywood spends way too much, and when you can make stuff for less, your profit margin is much better.
好莱坞花费太多，当你能以更少的成本制作东西时，你的利润率就会好得多。
22:13 So when I first started, I didn’t have any money, so I still play like I don’t have money.
所以刚开始的时候我没有钱，所以我还是像没钱一样玩。
So I had Super ,.
所以我有超级，。
My dad had a Super 8 camera, but I couldn’t afford it.
我爸爸有一台 Super 8 相机，但我买不起。
I shot two rolls that you had to buy the film, shoot two minutes.
我拍了两卷你必须买的胶卷，拍了两分钟。
I shot two rolls of that.
我拍了两卷。
It’s another same amount of money that it cost to buy it, whatever that was, 12 bucks or whatever to develop it.
这与购买它的成本相同，无论是 12 美元还是开发它的任何东西。
You get it.
你明白了。
There’s no sound.
没有声音。
Most of the shit’s out of focus.
大多数事情都没有焦点。
But then my dad, who sold cookware, had a VCR, one of the first home VCRs for the market that he would play his sales tapes to his salesman.
但后来，我销售炊具的父亲有了一台录像机，这是市场上第一批家用录像机之一，他可以用它向推销员播放销售磁带。
And it came with a camera attached, like this cable you got coming out.
它附带了一个摄像头，就像你拿出来的这条电缆一样。
22:53 Imagine if that had to go into your VCR for you to even see what it’s shooting.
想象一下，如果必须将其输入您的录像机才能看到它正在拍摄的内容。
It’s this old camera manual focus, manual iris and twelve-foot cable.
这是一台老式相机，配有手动对焦、手动光圈和 12 英尺长的电缆。
And I would start making movies with that instead.
我会开始用它来制作电影。
Now I have for $8, I have a two-hour erasable tape of sound and picture.
现在我花 8 美元就能买到一盘两小时可擦的声音和图像磁带。
So I got into digital basically really early I was doing, which was really frowned upon back then and continued to be all the way to when I was using it for real in the early two thousands before everyone realized, “Oh, that’s the future.”
所以我基本上很早就进入了数字化领域，当时这确实让人不悦，直到两千出头我真正使用它时，才开始意识到，“哦，这就是未来。”
Yeah, that’s fascinating.
是的，这很有趣。
23:23 You were a rebel in that way too, using digital.
在使用数字技术方面，你也是一个叛逆者。
Yeah, well, because of the means and the democratizing of that, the elite didn’t like that you could just go make a movie like that.
是的，好吧，由于其手段和民主化，精英们不喜欢你可以拍这样的电影。
23:26 But I started practicing and it’s much easier to practice when it doesn’t cost any money.
但我开始练习，当不花钱的时候练习起来就容易多了。
If you want to be a rock star, if you want to learn how to play guitar really well, you’re not going to just jump on stage and be able to play.
如果你想成为一名摇滚明星，如果你想学习如何弹好吉他，你不会只是跳上舞台就能弹奏。
You have to practice till your fingers bleed.
你必须练习直到手指流血。
Well, the same with movies.
嗯，电影也是如此。
You got to keep telling stories and cutting them together, and you just can’t afford that on film.
你必须不断地讲故事并将它们剪辑在一起，而在电影中你无法承担这样的费用。
Nobody can with a two-minute roll costing as much as a two-hour tape.
没有人能比一盘两小时磁带的成本高出一卷两分钟的磁带。
So I doing all these movies.
所以我拍了所有这些电影。
23:58 First I would cut in camera and that VCR, that old VCR had a really great pause button that they stopped making that when you hit pause, it stopped right there and it stopped with a clean cut.
首先我会切入摄像机和录像机，那个旧录像机有一个非常棒的暂停按钮，当你按下暂停键时，它就停止了，并且以干净的剪辑停止。
It didn’t have all this color bars like the later ones had, and it had an audio dub feature where you could add another second soundtrack to it.
它不像后来的那样具有所有这些颜色条，并且它具有音频配音功能，您可以在其中添加另一个第二个配乐。
So if I have people talking, I could hit audio dub and add sound effects so I could have two tracks on the same one.
因此，如果有人说话，我可以点击音频配音并添加声音效果，这样我就可以在同一个轨道上播放两个轨道。
24:24 So that was my filmmaking kit for a while until I needed to start doing real editing and my dad bought a second VCR for his business.
所以那是我一段时间的电影制作工具，直到我需要开始进行真正的剪辑，我父亲为他的生意购买了第二台录像机。
I stole his other one, and I found that if I hooked him together, I could play on one and used that pause button on the second.
我偷了他的另一把，我发现如果我把他粘在一起，我就可以在其中一个上玩，并在第二个上使用暂停按钮。
And this was the limitation.
这就是限制。
This is what taught me how to edit in my head, is that if I shot a bunch of footage, I needed to shoot very little footage so I could find it because sometimes you shoot out of order, so when I cut it, I have to cut in linear order because if you push pause, it’s a nice clean cut, but it only holds for five minutes.
这教会了我如何在脑海中进行剪辑，如果我拍摄了一堆镜头，我需要拍摄很少的镜头，这样我才能找到它，因为有时你会乱序拍摄，所以当我剪辑它时，我必须按线性顺序剪辑，因为如果你按下暂停键，这是一个很好的干净剪辑，但它只能持续五分钟。
24:59 You have five minutes before the machine shuts off.
机器关闭前还有五分钟时间。
So you got to find your next shot within five minutes and do that.
所以你必须在五分钟内找到你的下一个镜头并做到这一点。
Otherwise, if you have to start the machine over, it added all these color bars and it would be all screwed up.
否则，如果你必须重新启动机器，它会添加所有这些颜色条，然后一切都会搞砸。
So I’d have to sit there and not move for all day while I cut knowing what the next shot was.
所以我必须一整天都坐在那里一动不动，一边剪辑一边知道下一个镜头是什么。
And once I had it cut, I would then add some sound effects to it.
一旦我把它剪下来，我就会给它添加一些声音效果。
Remember, because I have the audio dub function, but now if I want to add music, I take that tape, which has two tracks now into the first deck and put it into the VCR.
请记住，因为我有音频配音功能，但现在如果我想添加音乐，我会将现在有两个轨道的磁带放入第一盘并将其放入 VCR 中。
Again, one generation of loss, but I have a little cassette tape player with the music, and I do a Y splitter so I can add the music and just like that, that’s being resourceful with what you have.
又是一代人的损失，但我有一个带音乐的小盒式磁带播放器，我做了一个 Y 分配器，这样我就可以添加音乐，就像这样，这就是充分利用你所拥有的东西。
25:44 And I made award-winning short films that way on video.
我以这种方式在视频上制作了获奖短片。
There were some festivals that would allow video, not many, but they would always win.
有一些节日允许视频播放，虽然数量不多，但他们总是会获胜。
And there were always funny, as I stumbled upon Spy Kids that way, I wanted to make these action movies in my backyard.
总是很有趣，当我偶然发现《间谍小子》时，我想在我的后院制作这些动作电影。
But when you’re a teenager, you don’t know anybody who can come be your action star, and if you just bring your high school buddies, well, they just look like high school kids.
但当你十几岁的时候，你不认识任何人可以成为你的动作明星，如果你只带你的高中好友，那么，他们看起来就像高中生。
So I used my little brothers and sisters because one of 10, third oldest, they’re just sitting around watching cartoons anyway, and I made them the action stars just to learn.
所以我用了我的弟弟妹妹，因为他们是十个弟弟妹妹之一，第三大，他们只是坐在一起看动画片，我让他们成为动作明星只是为了学习。
And I found those things would be a winning formula.
我发现这些东西将是一个成功的秘诀。
They’d win every festival I’d send them to.
他们会赢得我派他们参加的每个节日。
26:22 So Bedhead was my first time using a film camera.
所以 Bedhead 是我第一次使用胶片相机。
It was a windup film camera.
那是一台发条胶片相机。
I got in film school.
我进了电影学校。
I went to film school for one semester and realized I already knew more than the film students because they taught you a whole other outdated way of doing it.
我在电影学校上了一学期，意识到我已经比电影学生知道的更多了，因为他们教给你的是另一种过时的做法。
So I thought, I’m just going to use that film camera to make a low budget movie, a definitive film version that I can send to all film festivals of these action kids, which is a precursor to Spy Kids bit.
所以我想，我只是想用那台胶片摄影机制作一部低成本电影，一个最终的电影版本，我可以将其发送给这些动作儿童的所有电影节，这是《间谍小子》的前身。
Bedhead’s a precursor to Spy Kids.
《Bedhead》是《小间谍》的前身。
And we should say that Bad Head was an award-winning short film.
我们应该说《Bad Head》是一部获奖短片。
26:49 That was probably a big sort of leap for you that probably opened the door to you to then make El Mariachi.
这对你来说可能是一个巨大的飞跃，可能为你打开了制作《El Mariachi》的大门。
It opened your brain especially because those video festivals, I would win a trip to New York and a director’s chair with a video shorts that I would put in festivals, but I knew the film festival, if I could get into film festivals, I could send that all over the world.
它打开了你的大脑，特别是因为那些视频节，我将赢得纽约之旅和导演席位，我会在电影节上播放视频短片，但我知道电影节，如果我能参加电影节，我可以将其发送到世界各地。
26:58 So I made that little short film, sent it, and it was winning all the festivals.
所以我制作了那个小短片，并将其发送出去，它赢得了所有电影节的好评。
And I thought, “Wow, I made that with a wind-up film camera, filming just one take each shot, just no slates because I’m the editor and that costs $800 bucks and it was eight minutes.
我想，“哇，我用发条胶片相机制作了这个，每个镜头只拍摄一个镜头，只是没有石板，因为我是剪辑师，花费了 800 美元，拍摄时间为 8 分钟。
I bet I can make 80 minute movie for $8,000 if I’d use the same method.
我打赌，如果我用同样的方法，我可以用 8,000 美元制作 80 分钟的电影。
So that movie I did six months later, I was making Mariachi because it opened up my mind that I could try it in a feature.
所以六个月后我拍的那部电影，我正在制作流浪乐队，因为它打开了我的思路，我可以在故事片中尝试它。
Can we actually pause on that because I think Bedhead has a really great, really unique story shot in a really unique way.
我们真的可以暂停一下吗，因为我认为 Bedhead 有一个非常伟大、非常独特的故事，以非常独特的方式拍摄。
27:45 I think what I’m trying to say is it is very important to write the right script, write the right story.
我想我想说的是写正确的剧本、写正确的故事非常重要。
So let me tell you the trick to that.
那么让我告诉你其中的技巧。
28:00 And Mariachi is the same way, and this really helped people.
Mariachi 也是如此，这确实对人们有帮助。
Even Kevin Smith from Clerks said, “Wow,” Robert said, when Mariachi was success, I talked about how I did it.
就连 Clerks 的凯文·史密斯 (Kevin Smith) 也说：“哇，”罗伯特说，当 Mariachi 取得成功时，我谈到了我是如何做到的。
I said, “I looked at everything I had.
我说：“我查看了我拥有的一切。
What do I have?
我有什么？
We have a pitbull, we have a turtle, we’ve got a bus that Carlos’ cousin owns.
我们有一只斗牛犬，我们有一只乌龟，我们有一辆卡洛斯表弟拥有的公共汽车。
His brother-in-law has a bar and he owns a ranch.
他的姐夫有一家酒吧，他拥有一个牧场。
So the bad guy lives at the ranch.
所以坏人住在牧场里。
The fight scene’s going to be in the bar.
打斗场面将在酒吧里进行。
He’s going to hit a bus at one point, the girl’s going to have a dog and a turtle is going to cross the road.
他有一天会撞上一辆公共汽车，女孩会养一只狗，一只乌龟会过马路。
It gives you all this production value, so you write backwards.
它为您提供了所有这些生产价值，因此您可以倒着写。
So for Bedhead, I even did that with a camera.
所以对于 Bedhead，我什至用相机做到了这一点。
So I’ve been shooting video all this time, and one thing I wished I could do on video, I never could.
所以我一直在拍摄视频，我希望能在视频中做一件事，但我从来没有做到过。
Was slow motion or stop-motion even.
甚至是慢动作或定格动作。
28:46 So when I got that crappy World War II camera they gave us in film school.
所以当我拿到电影学校送给我们的那台蹩脚的二战相机时。
I was so pissed.
我很生气。
Like, this is the camera.
就像，这就是相机。
I’ve been trying to get my hands.
我一直在努力抓住我的手。
I could have bought this for 50 bucks at a pawn shop.
我本可以在当铺花 50 美元买下这个。
Old Bell and Howell wind up, you couldn’t even see through the lens you were seeing through an approximation of the lens, but you could shoot slow motion.
老贝尔和豪威尔最后说，你甚至无法通过镜头看到你通过近似镜头看到的东西，但你可以拍摄慢动作。
I could do reverse photography.
我可以进行逆向摄影。
If I filmed upside down, I could do, because if I do a fast push into her, I’ll never get the focus in.
如果我倒着拍摄，我可以这样做，因为如果我快速推入她，我将永远无法聚焦。
So I started with it in focus, went back, pulled backwards on a chair, and then reversed it, flipped it, and now it looks like it stops on a dime in focus.
所以我开始把它放在焦点上，然后回去，向后拉一把椅子，然后反转它，翻转它，现在看起来它停在焦点上的一角钱上。
The number of times I’ve seen you shoot backwards is incredible.
我见过你向后射击的次数令人难以置信。
29:23 To achieve a certain feeling, a certain experience, a certain effect, sometimes shooting in reverse plus the sound effect layer.
为了达到一定的感觉、一定的体验、一定的效果，有时会逆向拍摄加上音效层。
You can create this reality that’s surreal, that then results in the story that you wanted.
你可以创造这种超现实的现实，然后产生你想要的故事。
You have to be functioning in some kind of different space-time continuum.
你必须在某种不同的时空连续体中运作。
You have to morph time.
你必须改变时间。
You start putting it together.
你开始把它们放在一起。
29:49 So I’ve got this different camera.
所以我有这台不同的相机。
Well, what, now I go, I don’t want to shoot the same kind of movie.
好吧，什么，现在我走了，我不想再拍同样类型的电影了。
If I got a camera now that can do that, I can do stop-motion.
如果我现在有一台可以做到这一点的相机，我就可以做定格动画。
So that’s why there’s an animated title sequence at the beginning because I go, “Wow, I am a cartoonist.
这就是为什么开头有一个动画标题序列，因为我会说，“哇，我是一名漫画家。
If I set the camera up here, I can slow it down enough.
如果我把相机设置在这里，我就可以放慢速度。
It’s not a frame by frame, but if I get it down like two frames a second, I can just tap it and it’ll maybe get one frame off.” So I did 300 drawings by hand for that opening title sequence.
它不是一帧一帧地拍摄，但如果我每秒拍摄两帧，我只需点击它，也许就会拍摄一帧。”所以我为片头画了 300 张手绘图。
Holy shit.
天啊。
30:18 That was you doing it by hand?
那是你亲手做的吗？
Yeah.
是的。
30:21 So you watch that, and this is a throwaway title sequence, but I really want this thing to win awards.
所以你看一下，这是一个一次性的标题序列，但我真的希望这个东西能够获奖。
Okay, hold on a second.
好的，请稍等。
30:28 Again, how long did that take to draw that?
再说一次，画这个花了多长时间？
That’s a lot.
就这么多了。
That’s a lot of work.
这是很多工作。
I drew it over, well, I was a daily cartoonist by then, so I was pretty fast.
我画过来了，嗯，我那时候已经是日常漫画家了，所以速度还是蛮快的。
30:33 But still, that’s why it’s only penciled.
但这就是为什么它只是用铅笔写的。
It’s not inked, but it looks great.
它没有墨水，但看起来很棒。
The camera’s going around and all kinds of crazy stuff, but it’s just all fake by paper.
相机到处转，还有各种疯狂的东西，但这都是纸上假的。
It took me all night to shoot it because I remember I walked into the film school the next day, all sleepy, and I told one of the fellow students, “Wow, I was up all night doing this animated title sequence.” And he went, “Why are you putting so much work in this?
我花了一整夜的时间来拍摄它，因为我记得第二天我走进电影学校，很困，我告诉一位同学，“哇，我整夜都在拍这个动画片头。”他说：“你为什么要花这么多精力在这上面？
They’re not going to grade you any differently.” I was like, “Grades?
他们不会对你有任何不同的评分。”我当时想，“成绩？
Get an A walking in here.
走进这里获得 A 。
I’m trying to get out of this town.
我正试图离开这个小镇。
I’m not doing this for fucking grades.” I want people to see what I can do now and I want to see what I can do now with this.
我这么做不是为了他妈的成绩。”我希望人们看到我现在能做什么，我也想看看我现在能用这个做什么。
31:13 So a lot of the story came from the limitations or actually the freedoms of that camera.
所以很多故事都来自于相机的限制或实际上的自由。
I couldn’t have done that story on video.
我不可能把这个故事拍成视频。
So when I saw, wow, okay, I can do reverse photography, I can do stop-motion.
所以当我看到，哇，好吧，我可以做反向摄影，我可以做定格动画。
She has to have special powers because if she has special powers, then I can utilize, I can really milk this camera for all it can get.
她必须拥有特殊的能力，因为如果她有特殊的能力，那么我就可以利用，我真的可以充分利用这台相机的一切。
This is one of my shots I love the most is where she’s standing there and the chair, she makes a chair come all the way up to her and it goes all the way up to her face.
这是我最喜欢的镜头之一，她站在那里，椅子，她让一把椅子一直到她面前，椅子一直到她的脸。
Now, if I did it normally, where would I even put the strings for that, right?
现在，如果我正常做的话，我会把字符串放在哪里，对吗？
To pull the chair, yeah, yeah.
拉椅子，是的，是的。
So I start here with the camera upside down.
所以我从这里开始将相机倒置。
31:50 I have the strings in the back.
我后面有弦。
So you’re not going to be looking at the back.
所以你不会看后面。
And as it goes back, you pull it back and then when you reverse it goes and it looks so good.
当它向后退时，你把它拉回来，然后当你反转它时，它就会消失，看起来非常好。
You can’t spot the, if you look close, you see the strings are in the back, but your eyes not looking there.
你看不到，如果你仔细看，你会看到琴弦在后面，但你的眼睛没有看那里。
Yeah, that’s fine.
是的，那很好。
So I did stuff like that, and then just her getting the hose, and then I just do stop-motion for the hose turning on, the faucet.
所以我做了类似的事情，然后让她拿到软管，然后我只是为打开软管和水龙头做定格动作。
32:07 That’s why I gave her special powers so that, and it made the story better.
这就是为什么我赋予了她特殊的能力，这让故事变得更好。
So sometimes the limitations you have with equipment or location, you can use it to take chickenshit, turn it into chicken salad.
所以有时候你的设备或地点有限制，你可以用它来拿鸡屎，把它变成鸡肉沙拉。
Take this camera that everyone was like, “What’s this?” And I go, I can do so much with this.
拿着这台相机，每个人都会说：“这是什么？”我走了，我可以用这个做很多事情。
But I tell you today, I look at that camera, I can’t believe I ever made a movie with that thing.
但我今天告诉你，我看着那台摄像机，我不敢相信我曾经用那东西拍过一部电影。
It’s so ridiculously primitive.
这太原始了。
I’m just like, “How did I even think I could get anything done with this?
我只是想，“我怎么认为我能完成这件事呢？
32:40 And it even exposed and Mariachi the same way.
它甚至以同样的方式暴露了Mariachi。
You have to think about it.
你必须考虑一下。
I shot Mariachi on film with a bar of 16 millimeter camera.
我用 16 毫米相机杆用胶片拍摄了墨西哥流浪乐队。
I didn’t know how to use it.
我不知道如何使用它。
I called up a place in Dallas that rented that kind of equipment and I said, “I have an AR-16s here, two motor looking things.
我打电话给达拉斯的一个租用此类设备的地方，我说：“我这里有一台 AR-16，有两个看起来像马达的东西。
One has a 24 and one has a bunch of numbers.” “Oh, that’s a variable speed motor.
一个有 24，一个有一堆数字。” “哦，那是一个变速电机。
That means you can do different speed.” “I can shoot slow motion with this?
这意味着你可以做不同的速度。” “我可以用这个拍慢动作吗？
Oh wow.” “Do you have a torque motor?” “I don’t know.” “What is that?” “Is there something on the side of the magazine?” Yeah, now you can just look up on YouTube and it shows you how to use it.
哦，哇。” “你们有力矩电机吗？” “我不知道。” “那是什么？” “杂志的侧面有什么东西吗？”是的，现在您只需在 YouTube 上查找即可，它会向您展示如何使用它。
I was doing it by phone that way, and then I went and shot the movie right then and I didn’t know if any of it was exposing or if the film camera was working until I finished the whole movie.
我就是通过电话这样做的，然后我就去拍摄电影，直到我完成整部电影之前，我不知道是否有任何曝光或胶片相机是否正常工作。
So imagine you have to go down to Mexico, shoot for two weeks, come back, send it off to the lab.
所以想象一下你必须去墨西哥拍摄两周，回来后把它送到实验室。
You want to talk about being nervous?
你想谈谈紧张吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Just hoping something exposed.
只是希望有什么事情曝光。
33:36 And when I saw it come back and the tape, they transferred it to a tape so I could edit it deck to deck again.
当我看到它回来和磁带时，他们将其转移到磁带上，这样我就可以再次对它进行逐层编辑。
I was so relieved.
我松了口气。
Some things didn’t come out, but I can cut around that’s like, oh yeah, I’m doing everything right here.
有些事情没有出现，但我可以绕过，就像，哦，是的，我在这里做所有事情。
You’re doing everything.
你正在做一切。
Imagine if you forgot to stop down and it’s open all the way and one shot is blown out.
想象一下，如果你忘记停下来，而车门完全打开，一枪就被吹掉了。
I’d have stuff like that because moving fast and I’m doing it all myself.
我会有这样的东西，因为行动很快，而且都是我自己做的。
Wait a minute, you shot El Mariachi the whole thing without knowing if some of the footage is damaged, wrong?
等一下，你在不知道某些镜头是否损坏的情况下拍摄了整个 El Mariachi，对吗？
Without any of it.
没有任何它。
34:05 That’s why I only did one take.
这就是为什么我只拍了一张。
So my idea was this.
所以我的想法是这样的。
How gangster is that?
这到底是怎样的黑帮啊？
Wow.
哇。
It was a test film, right?
这是一部测试片，对吧？
34:14 Right.
对。
I thought it was going to be a test film.
我以为这将是一部测试片。
34:15 It’s the only movie in history ever made where the filmmaker did not think anyone would see it and expect it and even set it up that way.
这是历史上唯一一部电影制片人认为没有人会看到它、没有人会期待它、甚至没有人会这样设置的电影。
Why would I make an action movie for the Spanish market called, basically, the Guitar Player.
为什么我要为西班牙市场制作一部动作片，基本上称为《吉他手》。
Promises no ction.
承诺不采取任何行动。
No one’s going to watch it.
没有人会看它。
But I thought if someone actually picks it up and has the balls to watch this thing, they’re going to be surprised.
但我想如果有人真的拿起它并且有勇气观看这个东西，他们会感到惊讶的。
I put a lot of action in.
我投入了很多行动。
It was just to learn from, I just needed to make it for as little as possible, see how much I could sell it for.
只是为了学习，我只是需要尽可能少地制作它，看看我能卖多少钱。
If I could double my money, great.
如果我能把钱翻倍，那就太好了。
I can make another one and just get more practice.
我可以再做一个，然后进行更多练习。
It was just, I was so intrigued by this idea.
只是，我对这个想法很感兴趣。
You’ve heard advice about screenwriting.
您听说过有关编剧的建议。
I heard a revise back then that I thought was ridiculous.
当时我听到了一个我认为很荒谬的修改。
It said, “It’s going to take you a long time to be a good screenwriter.
它说：“你需要很长时间才能成为一名优秀的编剧。
So write three scripts and throw them away.
所以写了三个脚本然后把它们扔掉。
The fourth script will be the good one.” I was like, it’s so hard.
第四个剧本会是个好剧本。”我当时想，这太难了。
35:00 …
……
and throw them away.
并把它们扔掉。
The fourth script will be the good one.
第四个剧本将会是一个很好的剧本。
It’s like it’s so hard to write a script.
感觉写剧本好难啊。
Who’s going to write three full scripts knowing they throw them away?
谁会在知道自己扔掉三个完整剧本的情况下写出它们呢？
Wouldn’t it be better if you write three scripts and then shoot each one and be the cameraman, be the sound guy, be everything?
如果你写三个剧本，然后拍摄每个剧本，并担任摄影师、音响师和一切，不是更好吗？
Because that way you’re learning, not just writing, you’re learning how to make a movie.
因为这样你不仅在学习，而且在学习如何制作电影。
So that was my idea.
这就是我的想法。
I’m going to make three of these, hide it on Spanish video, but make money back.
我打算制作其中三个，将其隐藏在西班牙视频中，但赚钱。
That’s like my own film school paying me, paying me to learn.
这就像我自己的电影学校付钱给我，付钱让我学习。
35:27 So the first one I thought, let me just shoot it, one take each, because my friend Carlos lives in Mexico.
所以我的第一个想法是，让我拍摄它，一人拍摄，因为我的朋友卡洛斯住在墨西哥。
If we shoot two takes, most of the cost is to film.
如果我们拍两段，大部分成本都花在了拍摄上。
I’ve just doubled my budget, so let me just shoot one take.
我的预算刚刚增加了一倍，所以让我只拍摄一次。
Some of it’s going to not come out, but I’m not going to know what, I’m not going to shoot a safety one.
有些内容不会出来，但我不知道是什么，我不会拍摄安全的。
That doubles my…
这使我的…
Let me see.
让我看看。
Some things might come out.
有些事情可能会暴露出来。
I expected like 70% of it to maybe be okay, but 30% I might have to come reshoot, which is fine.
我预计 70% 的内容可能没问题，但 30% 的内容我可能需要重新拍摄，这也没关系。
I just drive back there and then I just reshoot just those shots, right?
我只是开车回到那里，然后重新拍摄那些镜头，对吗？
35:56 So I just went, “Let’s shoot.” We stop, we come back.
所以我就说：“我们拍吧。”我们停下来，我们回来。
Then I send it off to develop, because we’re shooting two weeks consecutively.
然后我会把它送去冲洗，因为我们要连续拍摄两周。
To get film shipped back and forth from Mexico to see if it came out, you just couldn’t do it.
想要从墨西哥来回运送胶卷来看看它是否上映，你就是做不到。
I just had to double down on it, do it.
我只得加倍努力，去做吧。
One take everything.
一人拿走一切。
I remember one time I was telling the actor, “Man, I told you to run through that shot.” And he goes, “Oh, let me do it again.” “No one take, dude.
我记得有一次我对演员说：“伙计，我告诉你要演练那个镜头。”他说：“哦，让我再做一次。” “没有人接受，伙计。
Just think about it.
想一想吧。
Next time, do what I say.” I didn’t think anyone was going to see it.
下次就按我说的做。”我不认为有人会看到它。
And because you don’t think anyone’s going to see it, you end up doing something remarkable, which is, “Well, I’m just going to make something for myself.”
因为你认为没有人会看到它，所以你最终做了一些了不起的事情，那就是，“好吧，我只是要为自己做一些东西。”
36:29 Because if I was making a movie that was going to go to Sundance, I wouldn’t have made that movie.
因为如果我要拍一部要去圣丹斯电影节的电影，我就不会拍那部电影。
I would’ve thought, “Okay, I got to get serious.” But because I made this movie that was just entertaining myself, like Bedhead, it entertained audiences.
我会想：“好吧，我得认真起来。”但因为我拍的这部电影只是为了娱乐自己，就像《床头》一样，所以它娱乐了观众。
So that naivete is really important when you’re starting out or at any point in your life.
因此，当你刚开始工作或在人生的任何阶段时，这种天真真的很重要。
Be naive about what things going to, and just do something for yourself.
对即将发生的事情保持天真，只为自己做点什么。
That taught me a very valuable lesson.
这给我上了非常宝贵的一课。
I didn’t want anybody to see it.
我不想让任何人看到它。
I just thought, one take, one take.
我只是想，一拍，一拍。
When I got back home, a bunch of stuff didn’t come out, but I’m like, “I’m not going back to Mexico.
当我回到家时，一堆东西没有出来，但我想，“我不会回墨西哥。
I’ll figure out a way to edit around it and make the movie shorter and that’s just going to be the movie.” And then that’s the one that won Sundance.
我会想出一种方法来围绕它进行剪辑，让电影变得更短，这就是电影。”然后这就是赢得圣丹斯电影节的那个。
That was your first feature film.
那是你的第一部故事片。
37:09 That’s the one you made for $7,000.
那是你花了 7,000 美元做的。
You mentioned your friend Carlos.
你提到了你的朋友卡洛斯。
That’s the star of the movie.
这就是电影中的明星。
Everything one take.
一切都一一拿走。
And I highly recommend people go back and watch that movie.
我强烈建议人们回去观看那部电影。
It’s just an incredible movie.
这只是一部令人难以置信的电影。
It’s fun and it’s an action film, moves really fast.
这很有趣，而且是一部动作片，动作非常快。
The story is really interesting, so the script is really interesting.
故事很有趣，所以剧本也很有趣。
All the actors, you could tell they all kind of stepped up and played their own roles.
所有的演员，你可以看出他们都挺身而出，扮演了自己的角色。
They weren’t actors.
他们不是演员。
That’s right.
没错。
They were just friends of ours, which is why…
他们只是我们的朋友，这就是为什么......
37:35 And because, and this was the magic of not having a crew.
因为，这就是没有船员的魔力。
They didn’t feel like they were making a movie.
他们不觉得自己在拍电影。
It’s like this, we’re just here, me with my one camera.
就这样，我们就在这里，我带着我的一台相机。
In fact, the gal, Carlos said, “This one girl, I forgot she’s in town.
事实上，女孩卡洛斯说：“这个女孩，我忘了她在城里。
Maybe she would work.” Because we tried to get a soap star and she backed out.
也许她会工作。”因为我们试图获得肥皂剧明星，但她退出了。
So we got [inaudible 00:38:00] she goes, “But I don’t know how to act.” And I said, “Here, let’s watch.
所以我们[听不清 00:38:00] 她说，“但我不知道如何行动。”我说：“来吧，让我们看看。
I want to show you something on Mexican TV.” A telenovela was on and you see someone, you know, all over acting.
我想在墨西哥电视台给你看一些东西。”一部电视剧正在播出，你知道有人在演戏。
I said, “That’s acting.
我说：“这就是演技。”
I don’t want you to do that.
我不希望你这么做。
I want you to just talk like you’re talking about-
我希望你能像你正在谈论的那样说话——
Wait, wait, wait.
等等，等等，等等。
38:13 The love interest?
爱情兴趣？
The woman in that, that’s who you’re talking about?
里面的那个女人，就是你说的那个人吗？
Yeah.
是的。
That’s who you’re talking about.
这就是你说的人。
Yeah.
是的。
She’s amazing.
她太棒了。
She’s amazing.
她太棒了。
38:18 Because I got video of her.
因为我有她的视频。
I said, “I want you to just do this one line.
我说：“我希望你只做这一行。
Pretend like you’re just talking to your boyfriend.” And I showed her the video.
假装你只是在和你男朋友说话。”我给她看了视频。
That was cool.
太酷了。
Because I couldn’t show her the film because you’d have to develop it.
因为我不能给她看这部电影，因为你必须冲洗它。
But I showed her a video test of herself doing it and she saw herself doing it, she suddenly had the confidence.
但我给她看了一段她自己做的视频测试，她看到自己在做，她突然有了信心。
We went through her closet, “This red dress you can wear in that,” and everyone just brought their own clothes.
我们翻遍了她的衣柜，“这件红色连衣裙你可以穿在里面”，每个人都只带了自己的衣服。
She really had a sexuality, a tension, like a romantic tension that was real.
她确实有一种性感，一种紧张，就像真实的浪漫紧张一样。
38:40 It was in part a great love story that I mean, as ridiculous that it is to say, and a dramatic love story [inaudible 00:38:54].
我的意思是，这在某种程度上是一个伟大的爱情故事，尽管可以这么说，也是一个戏剧性的爱情故事[听不清00:38:54]。
Yeah.
是的。
38:54 The idea was that I thought a guitar player, really what I wanted to do was a Road Warrior.
我的想法是，我认为我是一名吉他手，我真正想做的是一名公路战士。
I said, I want a guy with a guitar case full of weapons going from town to town like Road Warrior, but that don’t have enough money for the first one to do that.
我说，我想要一个像《公路战士》一样带着装满武器的吉他盒从一个城镇到另一个城镇的人，但没有足够的钱让第一个这样做。
That’ll be the second movie I do.
那将是我拍的第二部电影。
How will we do a genesis story, how he became that guy?
我们将如何制作一个创世故事，他是如何成为那个人的？
So let’s do Mad Max, basically, how he becomes that guy.
所以让我们来看看疯狂的麦克斯，基本上，他是如何成为那个人的。
Maybe he is a guitar player.
也许他是一名吉他手。
So you start writing it out.
所以你开始把它写出来。
I was going to show you my writing method.
我本来想向你展示我的写作方法。
I write on index cards and I carry one of these, a little packet of index cards.
我在索引卡上写字，并随身携带其中一张，一小包索引卡。
I keep one always in my bag.
我总是在包里放一个。
And I smile when I run across it because I go, “I’ve made a million dollars with one of these before.”
当我看到它时，我笑了，因为我说，“我以前用其中一个赚了一百万美元。”
39:33 It’s like this is the key to your next success, cards.
就好像这是你下一次成功的关键，卡片。
Because when you go see a therapist, you’re not going to them for the answers.
因为当你去看治疗师时，你不会向他们寻求答案。
You’re going to them for the questions.
你要向他们询问问题。
You’ve got the answers inside.
你已经在里面得到了答案。
What you don’t have are the questions.
你没有的是问题。
A lot of times we ask ourselves very unempowering questions like, “Why am I such a loser?” I can think of 10 answers right now, but if you go, “What three things can I do today that’ll not just change my life, but everyone around me?” Take steps of that.
很多时候，我们会问自己一些非常无力的问题，比如“为什么我是一个失败者？”我现在可以想到 10 个答案，但如果你问：“我今天可以做哪三件事，这不仅会改变我的生活，还会改变我周围的每个人？”采取这样的步骤。
Take out your cards and start writing them down.
拿出你的卡片并开始写下来。
You won’t come up with three, you’ll come up with 15.
你不会想出3个，你会想出15个。
40:06 I’m like, well, how?
我想，嗯，怎么样？
Because you’re asking yourself and you’ll see them.
因为你问自己，你就会看到它们。
So when I was doing that movie, I thought, okay, he’s a guitar player for real, and he gets mixed up with the guy with a case.
所以当我拍那部电影时，我想，好吧，他是一个真正的吉他手，他和那个带着箱子的人混在一起了。
So how about he walks into a bar?
那么他走进酒吧怎么样？
So I write down that, he walks into a bar, bar, trying to get work.
所以我写下了，他走进一家酒吧，试图找工作。
Bartender looks at him, “We don’t hire mariachis, get the hell out of here.” So he leaves.
酒保看着他，“我们不雇流浪艺人，滚吧。”所以他离开了。
After that whole scene explaining who he is and what his story is.
在整个场景解释他是谁以及他的故事是什么之后。
Then the shooter comes in with a guitar case full of weapons.
然后枪手带着装满武器的吉他箱进来。
He’s also dressed in black and he shoots the place up.
他也穿着黑色衣服，并拍摄了这个地方。
Now if that was a short film, that’s how you’d start a short film.
现在，如果这是一部短片，那么这就是你开始拍摄短片的方式。
But this is a feature movie, so shit, I got to figure out how to tell a feature.
但这是一部故事片，所以该死，我必须弄清楚如何讲述一个故事片。
I’m going to need a few more cards before that.
在那之前我还需要几张卡。
40:48 So I’m going to need, well, who’s this bad guy?
所以我需要知道这个坏人是谁？
How about he’s in jail?
他在监狱里怎么样？
I had read a story, this crazy story about a guy who was in jail in Mexico, and he was running his drug business from the jail as protection.
我读过一个故事，这个疯狂的故事是关于一个在墨西哥监狱里的人的，他在监狱里经营毒品生意作为保护。
He could walk out anytime, but it was to have the cops be his enforcers basically.
他可以随时退出，但基本上是让警察成为他的执法者。
So introduced that guy, he’s in jail making phone calls and someone puts a hit on him.
介绍一下那个人，他在监狱里打电话，有人打了他。
So we have action right away.
所以我们立即采取行动。
There’s a hit on him.
他受到了打击。
He kills those guys because it’s his operation.
他杀了那些人，因为这是他的行动。
He’s not in jail.
他没有在监狱里。
All the cops are working for him and he tells that guy on the phone, the main bad guy, “I’m going to come to town.
所有的警察都在为他工作，他告诉电话里的那个人，主要的坏人，“我要进城。
I’m going to kill all your guys and I’m going to come kill you.”
我要杀掉你们所有的人，我也要来杀掉你们。”
41:27 So then he gets in his truck and you see them bring him a guitar case full of weapons.
然后他上了卡车，你看到他们给他带来了一个装满武器的吉他箱。
He passes the mariachi on the way to town, and now it’s his story.
他在进城的路上经过了墨西哥流浪乐队，现在这是他的故事了。
The baton gets turned to mariachi.
接力棒转向墨西哥流浪乐队。
Mariachi is doing a voiceover.
墨西哥流浪乐队正在配音。
It’s easy to shoot.
很容易拍摄。
We can do the voice later.
我们可以稍后再做声音。
We don’t have to do sync sound.
我们不必同步声音。
There was even a scene when he walks into town where we saw these coconuts, a guy cutting coconuts and we, “Oh, let’s go film over there.” So we filmed the guy giving him a coconut with a straw in it, and he walks out.
甚至有一个场景，当他走进镇上时，我们看到这些椰子，一个人在切椰子，我们，“哦，我们去那里拍电影吧。”所以我们拍摄了那个人给他一个里面有吸管的椰子，然后他走了出去。
I’m like, “Shit, man, you forgot to pay the guy.” “Well, let’s shoot that.” “No, there’s one take.
我当时想，“妈的，伙计，你忘了付钱给他了。” “好吧，我们就拍吧。” “不，有一个。
I’ll just put in the voiceover that they give away free coconuts in this town,” and for years, people in other countries would go, “They really give away free coconuts?” No, it’s because we forgot to show him paying.
我会在画外音中加入他们在这个镇上免费赠送椰子的内容，”多年来，其他国家的人们都会说，“他们真的免费赠送椰子吗？”不，这是因为我们忘了向他展示付款。
Little happy accidents.
幸福的小意外。
42:12 So now look, you’re already building a movie.
现在看，你已经在制作一部电影了。
So it’s like now he goes in the bar.
就像现在他走进酒吧一样。
Now he’s mixed up and the bad guy says, “Find the guy with a guitar case full of weapons.” Then he goes and meets the girl.
现在他陷入了困境，坏人说：“找到那个带着装满武器的吉他盒的人。”然后他去见了那个女孩。
So you just start your movie, visually, you can start seeing your movie.
所以你只要开始你的电影，视觉上，你就可以开始看你的电影了。
And I’ve used this for business things, I’ve used this for ideas, for manifesting stuff.
我用它来做生意，我用它来表达想法，表达东西。
It’s brilliant.
太棒了。
42:32 Are you doing this alone usually or are you-
你通常是一个人做这件事还是-
Yeah.
是的。
42:34 And it comes so fast.
而且来得这么快。
It’s like free association.
这就像自由联想。
Well, maybe I have the ending.
好吧，也许我已经有了结局。
Oh, I know I want his hand shot.
哦，我知道我想要他的手被射中。
He’s going to get his hand shot because he’s a musician and those ballads are always really tragic.
他的手会被枪杀，因为他是一名音乐家，而那些民谣总是非常悲惨。
So the girl has to die.
所以这个女孩必须死。
The girl has to die because if it’s going to be a tragic song for his songbook, each movie should be like a tragedy.
这个女孩必须死，因为如果这将成为他歌集中的一首悲剧歌曲，那么每部电影都应该像一场悲剧。
That’s going to be over here.
就到这里了。
Now you got the ending, and then your brain starts filling in the rest.
现在你已经知道了结局，然后你的大脑开始填充剩下的部分。
Because you’re asking yourself these prompt questions that you already have answers for, from a past life, from a vision you had that you don’t even know are there.
因为你在问自己这些即时问题，而这些问题你已经从前世、从你甚至不知道存在的愿景中得到了答案。
This prompts it.
这样就提示了。
It’s kind of a puzzle that you’re figuring out.
这就像一个你正在解开的谜题。
43:10 What happens if you get stuck?
如果你被卡住了怎么办？
This doesn’t make sense, like some aspect of this structure doesn’t make sense.
这没有意义，就像这个结构的某些方面没有意义一样。
[inaudible 00:43:18]?
[听不清 00:43:18]？
You leave all there.
你把一切都留在那里。
43:18 Yeah, you just start writing in the ones you do know.
是的，你只需开始写下你所知道的。
Like okay, I know at some point she’s going to betray him or he’s going to think she does.
好吧，我知道在某个时候她会背叛他，或者他会认为她会背叛他。
She betrays him.
她背叛了他。
Okay, that’s in the middle somewhere.
好吧，那是在中间的某个地方。
The other ones will come.
其他人也会来。
Yeah, those are all crossroads for the story.
是的，这些都是故事的十字路口。
43:33 How do you know she has to die?
你怎么知道她必须死？
Can you change your mind about that?
你能改变主意吗？
I can, yeah, but for now, I felt like if I really want…
我可以，是的，但现在，我觉得如果我真的想要……
43:40 The story’s telling me now what it is.
这个故事现在告诉我它是什么。
I didn’t know I was going to make a genesis story.
我不知道我要制作一个创世故事。
I wanted to do the Road Warrior guy, but the Road Warrior, he lost his family.
我想做公路战士，但是公路战士，他失去了家人。
So really, to propel him to become a guy who has guitar case full of weapons, he has to lose everything.
所以说真的，为了让他成为一个吉他盒里装满武器的人，他必须失去一切。
So he needs a ghost.
所以他需要一个幽灵。
So this is a genesis story of a character.
所以这是一个角色的起源故事。
Well, look, Bruce Wayne lost his parents.
好吧，看，布鲁斯·韦恩失去了他的父母。
You could say, well, does the parents have to die?
你可能会说，好吧，父母必须死吗？
Well, no, but it’s not going to propel him, it’s not going to drive him like that thing.
嗯，不，但这不会推动他，不会像那样驱使他。
So it’s just coming to me.
所以它就来找我了。
So this is my other trick and this is the main thing you got to learn about, if you take any way, this isn’t me doing it.
所以这是我的另一个技巧，这是你要学习的主要内容，如果你采取任何方式，这不是我做的。
44:20 I totally believe it, because when you start doing this, you go, “Where are these answers coming from?
我完全相信这一点，因为当你开始这样做时，你会想：“这些答案从哪里来？
I’m asking the right question, but how come the answers just keep coming like this?” I believe, because I do so many different jobs, I’ve learned this over the years.
我问的是正确的问题，但为什么答案总是这样？”我相信，因为我做了很多不同的工作，多年来我已经学会了这一点。
When I was in 2002, I was like, “How is it that I’m the production designer, the composer,” which I don’t even know how to read or write music, and I’m writing orchestral score and I’m doing the editing and I’m doing the cinematography.
当我在 2002 年的时候，我就想，“我怎么会是制作设计师、作曲家呢？”我什至不知道如何读或写音乐，而我正在写管弦乐配乐，我正在做剪辑，我正在做电影摄影。
I haven’t been trained for any of these.
我没有接受过这些方面的培训。
I never went to school for these specifically.
我从来没有专门为了这些而去学校。
Must be something about creativity.
一定与创造力有关。
44:55 So I went on Amazon, it’s 2002.
所以我去了亚马逊，那是 2002 年。
I look up creative books.
我查找创意书籍。
Anything that has creativity in the title, I just ordered it.
凡是标题里有创意的东西，我就点了。
And I’ve got a bunch of books on creativity, and I was reading them through.
我有很多关于创造力的书，我正在读它们。
One of them was really speaking to me.
其中一位确实在对我说话。
“Yeah, that’s it.” That’s the process.
“是啊，就是这样。”这就是过程。
And then it says gels and mediums, and I’m like, “Oh, this is a book specifically about painting,” but it applies to music, editing, cinematography, writing, it’s all the same.
然后它说凝胶和媒介，我想，“哦，这是一本专门关于绘画的书，”但它适用于音乐、编辑、电影摄影、写作，都是一样的。
So that’s when I realized that creativity is 90% of any of those jobs.
就在那时我意识到创造力占所有这些工作的 90%。
The technical part of setting up the cameras, of writing a script in format or reading or writing music, that’s 10% of that.
设置摄像机、编写格式脚本或阅读或创作音乐等技术部分，占其中的 10%。
45:38 How many musicians don’t read or write music and they’re fantastic?
有多少音乐家不读或写音乐，但他们却很出色？
It’s because 90% what they do is creative.
这是因为他们所做的90%都是创造性的。
Now I believe that that same person, even if they only do music, could literally jump from job to job creatively and do a superior job than most technicians.
现在我相信同一个人，即使他们只做音乐，也可以创造性地从一个工作跳到另一个工作，并且比大多数技术人员做得更好。
And there’s also something to say there about the learning the technical aspects of an art.
关于学习艺术的技术方面，还有一些话要说。
45:55 You collide with the experts.
你和专家发生冲突。
What happens is, I’ve experienced this a lot with using cameras and so on.
发生的情况是，我在使用相机等方面经历过很多这种情况。
I don’t know shit about cameras and you roll in and then there’s all the experts almost talking down to you and telling you how things are supposed to be.
我对相机一窍不通，当你走进来时，所有的专家几乎都在居高临下地对你说话，告诉你事情应该是怎样的。
Everything is wrong.
一切都是错误的。
I talked to somebody about soundproofing a room and they said, they gave me prices that are insane and the amount of effort is insane and the geometry-
我和某人谈论了房间的隔音问题，他们说，他们给我的价格太疯狂了，工作量也太疯狂了，而且几何形状-
Well, yeah, they’re selling you something.
嗯，是的，他们正在卖东西给你。
…
……
46:30 the dynamics of this room are all wrong.
这个房间的动态都是错误的。
I’m like, “Why can’t I just fucking hang up some curtains?
我想，“为什么我不能挂一些窗帘呢？
It seems like that kills most of the echo.
看起来这消除了大部分回声。
I don’t understand.” And they’re like, “No, this is all wrong.
我不明白。”他们会说：“不，这都是错误的。
The corners are going to have some…
角落里会有一些……
” And I’m like, fuck it, I’m just going to try.
” 我想，去他的，我只是想尝试一下。
I’m going to see what it sounds like.
我要看看听起来像什么。
A and B.
A和B。
Okay, here’s audio with curtains, here’s audio without curtains.
好的，这是有窗帘的音频，这是没有窗帘的音频。
Seems like this is fine.
看来这个还好啊。
Move on to the next thing.
继续下一件事。
I think when you say creativity, some of that is being a rebel, not listening to the experts.
我认为当你说创造力时，其中一些就是叛逆，不听专家的意见。
Yeah.
是的。
47:00 Or you’re going on your creativity, which is, what is that?
或者你正在发挥你的创造力，也就是说，那是什么？
That’s like, do you consider yourself a creative person?
就像，你认为自己是一个有创造力的人吗？
I think you play guitar.
我认为你会弹吉他。
Yeah, guitar, piano, yeah.
是的，吉他，钢琴，是的。
47:06 Everything.
一切。
You play piano?
你弹钢琴吗？
47:08 Okay.
好的。
But would you call yourself a creative person?
但你会称自己是一个有创造力的人吗？
Yeah, I think so.
是的，我想是的。
Good.
好的。
47:13 You should.
你应该。
I think that’s a positive way to phrase it.
我认为这是一种积极的表达方式。
I would just suggest to anybody, is just own it.
我只是向任何人建议，只是拥有它。
47:15 Own it and just say…
拥有它，然后说……
Like when I do so many different jobs, it sounds crazy when they would introduce me, “Hey, Robert Rodriguez, he does this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” And I was like, I get tired just hearing that list.
就像当我做很多不同的工作时，当他们介绍我时，听起来很疯狂，“嘿，罗伯特·罗德里格斯，他就是这样做的，等等，等等，等等，等等，等等。”我当时想，光是听到这个清单我就感到厌倦了。
But when I think about it, there’s really only one thing I do and I live a creative life.
但当我想到这一点时，我真的只做了一件事，而且我过着创造性的生活。
And when you live a creative life, that means anything that has to do with creativity, whether it’s filming or piano or guitar or sculpting, you can do it.
当你过着创造性的生活时，这意味着任何与创造力有关的事情，无论是电影、钢琴、吉他还是雕塑，你都可以做到。
You can take it on and do it because it teaches you more about your main job.
你可以接受并去做，因为它可以让你更多地了解你的主要工作。
I become a better director by doing all those jobs.
通过完成所有这些工作，我成为了一名更好的导演。
Because when somebody just does one job, they barely know that job.
因为当一个人只做一份工作时，他们几乎不了解那份工作。
You have to do more to learn about creativity.
你必须做更多的事情来了解创造力。
47:51 And this is the main thing I learned was that I’m writing music for an orchestra.
这是我学到的主要事情是我正在为管弦乐队创作音乐。
I’m like, “I don’t even know what I’m doing.
我想，“我什至不知道自己在做什么。
Why is that coming out?” I don’t feel like I’m doing it.
怎么会出来？”我不觉得我在这么做。
I feel like I picked up the pen.
我感觉我拿起了笔。
I feel like I had the idea to do the cards, but then when everything just starts coming out so quickly, like that’s how fast I wrote that movie.
我觉得我有制作卡片的想法，但是当一切都开始如此迅速地出现时，就像我写那部电影的速度一样快。
I go, I really feel like something else has taken over.
我走了，我真的感觉有什么东西接管了。
So this is what my belief is, because I hear it in different realms.
这就是我的信念，因为我在不同的领域听到过它。
You ask Keith Richards, “How do you come up with these riffs?” He goes, “I don’t.
你问基思·理查兹：“你是怎么想出这些连复段的？”他说：“我不。
I don’t.
我不知道。
They’re floating around the sky and I pull them out first.” You ask asked Jimmie Vaughan, “How do you play guitar, those solos?” He goes, “It’s like a radio.
它们在天空中漂浮，我先把它们拉出来。”你问 Jimmie Vaughan：“你怎么弹吉他，那些独奏？”他说：“这就像一台收音机。
Once you get a tune just right, you can’t even believe what’s coming through.”
一旦你掌握了正确的曲调，你甚至无法相信接下来会发生什么。”
48:32 So I believe, I call it the creative spirit.
所以我相信，我称之为创造精神。
There’s a spirit assigned to all of us that’s creative, that doesn’t have hands.
我们所有人都有一种富有创造力的精神，但没有双手。
It needs you to pick up the pen, pull out the cards, and then when you start getting in the flow and you’re like, “Whoa,” it’s writing.
它需要你拿起笔，拿出卡片，然后当你开始进入流程时，你会说，“哇，”它正在写作。
That’s that.
就是这样。
And if you can have that mindset, you take your ego out of it and go, “All I need to do is be a good conduit for this thing.
如果你能有这种心态，你就会摆脱自我，然后说：“我需要做的就是成为这件事的良好渠道。
Be a good pipe and it’s going to come through.” So you don’t ever have to get hung up on that question you had.
做一个好管子，它就会成功。”所以你永远不必纠结于你的问题。
Well, what happens when you can’t come up…
好吧，当你不能上来时会发生什么……
It wasn’t me to begin with.
一开始就不是我。
If it’s not coming out, it’s because I’m blocking it and if I were to do this and I’m flowing, and if I were to say, “Wow, I just wrote 10 cards.
如果它没有出来，那是因为我阻止了它，如果我这样做并且我正在流动，如果我说，“哇，我刚刚写了 10 张卡片。
I don’t know if I can write more.
不知道还能不能写更多。
How did I do that?” You just shut the pipe because your ego got in the way.
我是怎么做到的？你只是关闭了管道，因为你的自我阻碍了。
You just clogged it because it gets pissed off that you think it’s you.
你只是堵塞了它，因为它因为你认为是你而生气。
49:20 It’s not you.
不是你。
It’s like, “Dude, just open up.
就像，“伙计，敞开心扉。
Let me through, pick up the fucking pen.” And I learned this when I was 19, when I had a daily cartoon strip.
让我过去，拿起那该死的笔。”我在 19 岁时了解到了这一点，当时我每天都有一部连环漫画。
I had to draw a comic strip every day to get paid.
我每天必须画漫画才能获得报酬。
And I would be like, I’d have to draw one drawing and draw another drawing.
我会想，我必须画一张图，然后再画另一张图。
Then it’s like, okay, these kind of go together.
然后就好像，好吧，这些可以放在一起。
It was a process, and sometimes I just felt like I wish I could just envision it, sit back.
这是一个过程，有时我只是觉得我希望我能想象它，坐下来。
I’m going to try that method.
我要尝试一下这个方法。
I went home and I would sit back and just try to get in sofa, try the sofa method.
我回到家，我会坐下来，尝试坐进沙发，尝试沙发法。
I’m just going to try to picture the comic strip, and as soon as I got on that thing that’s funny, then I’ll just go draw that, right?
我只是想尝试画出漫画，一旦我发现那个有趣的东西，我就会去画它，对吗？
Be done in a half hour.
半小时内搞定。
Why waste three hours?
为什么要浪费三个小时呢？
49:59 I’d sit there and sit there and sit there.
我会坐在那里，坐在那里，坐在那里。
My deadline would be coming up, got like 30 minutes.
我的截止日期快到了，大概还有 30 分钟。
I’m like, “Oh, shit.” Got to go sit and draw it out.
我的反应是，“哦，该死。”得去坐下来把它画出来。
And it’s like, “Oh, okay, I got this drawing.
就像，“哦，好吧，我得到了这张图。
Oh, this kind of goes with that.
哦，这个跟那个是有关系的。
If I make another drawing, I have my strip.” That’s the only way to do it.
如果我再画一幅画，我就有了我的作品。”这是唯一的方法。
If you don’t get up, the creative spirit, ain’t going to come visit you if you’re doing this.
如果你不起床，当你这样做时，创造力就不会来拜访你。
It needs your hands and it’s not going to fucking reward you for sitting there, waiting for…
它需要你的双手，而且它不会奖励你坐在那里等待……
You have to jump in and do it.
你必须跳进去去做。
50:24 And people, when they say, “Oh, well, I’m not ready,” how pissed off is that spirit now?
人们，当他们说，“哦，好吧，我还没准备好”时，这种精神现在有多生气？
It’s waiting for you to feel like you’re ready.
它正在等待您感觉自己已经准备好。
It’s not you.
不是你。
Just start doing the action and it’s going to come through and the ideas will come and the answers will come because it’s not you.
只要开始采取行动，它就会实现，想法就会出现，答案就会出现，因为不是你。
And if you can take your ego out of life, you’ll be blessed with this never ending flow of ideas because don’t take ownership for it and know that if it’s not coming out, it’s because you’re just clogging it because this thing’s got endless ideas.
如果你能把你的自我从生活中剔除，你就会幸运地拥有这种永无休止的想法流，因为不要对它拥有所有权，并且知道如果它没有出现，那是因为你只是堵塞了它，因为这件事有无穷无尽的想法。
And you give that same advice for making films, which is don’t plan.
你对拍电影也给出了同样的建议，但这是没有计划的。
50:50 If you want to be a filmmaker, don’t plan the movie.
如果你想成为一名电影制片人，就不要策划电影。
Don’t think about making the movie.
不要考虑拍电影。
Just go in and start.
只要进去就可以开始。
Yeah, I would meet a lot of people who introduce themselves as aspiring.
是的，我会遇到很多自称有抱负的人。
51:00 “I’m an aspiring filmmaker and I wonder, what would you tell an aspiring filmmaker?” I’d say, “Stop aspiring.
“我是一名有抱负的电影制片人，我想知道，你会对一名有抱负的电影制片人说什么？”我会说：“停止渴望。
If you call yourself that, you are that, and you’re always going to feel like you’re not ready.” And you just jump in before you’re ready.
如果你这么称呼自己，你就是那样，你总是会觉得自己还没有准备好。”在你准备好之前你就可以加入了。
You don’t feel like you’re ready until…
你感觉自己还没有准备好，直到……
I didn’t feel like I was ready to do Mariachi till I was probably in my last few days of filming.
直到拍摄的最后几天，我才觉得自己已经准备好拍摄流浪乐队了。
You became ready as you went.
当你走的时候，你已经准备好了。
You didn’t know all that stuff…
你不知道所有这些东西......
I couldn’t have figured all that out in advance.
我无法提前弄清楚这一切。
When my kids worked with me on a project that we did similar, by the end, they realized…
当我的孩子们和我一起做一个我们做过的类似项目时，最后他们意识到……
They did an interview with my son who, after just two weeks of doing one of those projects, you’re a different person.
他们对我的儿子进行了一次采访，在完成其中一个项目两周后，你就变成了另一个人。
51:37 He’s suddenly waxing philosophical about the creative processing going, “I never knew how my dad did Mariachi until we did this project together.” And I realized he didn’t know either.
他突然对创意处理的进展变得富有哲理，“直到我们一起完成这个项目之前，我从来不知道我父亲是如何制作墨西哥流浪乐队的。”我意识到他也不知道。
He didn’t know how he was going to do it.
他不知道自己要怎么做。
He figured it out day by day.
他一天天想通了。
Every challenge that got thrown at him, he had to figure it out.
每一个向他提出的挑战，他都必须解决。
And that’s the biggest lesson.
这是最大的教训。
Most people never start, and that’s the biggest thing.
大多数人从未开始，这是最重要的事情。
Don’t wait till you’re ready or that’ll be on your tombstone.
不要等到你准备好了，否则这会成为你的墓碑。
“Here lies so-and-so.
“这里躺着某某。
He was never ready.” And you don’t want to be that guy.
他从来没有准备好。”你不想成为那样的人。
Jump in.
跳进去。
Know it’s not you, you just got to be the hands and that relieves a lot of pressure from you because then you don’t have to ever have to do anything really.
知道这不是你，你只需成为双手，这会减轻你的很多压力，因为这样你就不必真正做任何事情了。
You just have to be the hands.
你只需要成为双手。
Can you talk through some of the hats, some of the many hats you wore with the El Mariachi?
您能谈谈您在 El Mariachi 中戴过的一些帽子吗？
52:13 That’s an interesting case study and you’ve done the same thing over and over in completely different innovative ways in all the films, but El Mariachi is such a radical leap for you.
这是一个有趣的案例研究，你在所有电影中以完全不同的创新方式一遍又一遍地做了同样的事情，但《El Mariachi》对你来说是一次彻底的飞跃。
That was crazy that thing’s held together with scotch tape and rubber bands because of the camera I borrowed.
因为我借了相机，所以用透明胶带和橡皮筋把东西粘在一起，这太疯狂了。
You directed, you did cinematography, you did the sound.
你导演，你摄影，你做音响。
It’s better to just say what I didn’t do.
最好只说我没做过的事情。
52:39 I didn’t act in front of the camera.
我没有在镜头前表演。
Everything else I did.
其他一切都是我做的。
Everything else, I was the whole crew.
其他一切，我就是整个剧组。
It’s just like you’re doing here except you’ve got sound recording right onto the cameras, right?
就像你在这里所做的那样，只是你的声音直接记录在摄像机上，对吧？
Or do you have it to a system?
或者你有系统吗？
Separately, but it’s synced.
单独的，但它是同步的。
52:55 I mean, all the modern technology-
我的意思是，所有的现代技术——
But it’s synced, yeah.
但它是同步的，是的。
52:58 So I didn’t have synced camera, so I had a camera that, it was not a sync camera, and the thing was it was so loud, I would’ve had to blimp the out of it, which I didn’t have a blimp and then I would’ve needed a sound guy.
所以我没有同步相机，所以我有一个相机，它不是同步相机，问题是它太大声了，我必须用飞艇把它拿出来，而我没有飞艇，然后我需要一个音响师。
Just to be clear, so people don’t understand this.
只是为了清楚起见，所以人们不明白这一点。
53:10 You’re shooting basically no sound.
您拍摄时基本上没有声音。
Because the camera sounds like this.
因为相机的声音是这样的。
53:14 It sounds like all your money’s going away, first of all.
首先，听起来你所有的钱都消失了。
So I would go like this, “Action.” You’d start running and I shoot my edit, ” Cut.”
所以我会这样说，“行动”。你开始跑步，我拍摄我的剪辑，“剪切”。
Yep.
是的。
They’re still running.
他们仍在奔跑。
53:31 I’m only using this part and there’s no slates.
我只使用这部分，没有石板。
There’s guys holding up their fingers at the beginning of role, like this is reel seven for just a few frames so I know which reel it is.
有些人在角色开始时举起手指，就像这是第七卷，只有几帧，所以我知道它是哪个卷。
And then that 10 minutes of film is just one shot after another, and I use almost every frame of those shots because I was cutting in the camera.
然后那 10 分钟的电影只是一个接一个的镜头，我几乎使用了这些镜头的每一帧，因为我要切入镜头。
Now, after I shoot, like let’s say, tell me your name.
现在，在我拍摄之后，告诉我你的名字。
Lex.
莱克斯。
What’s your last name?
你姓什么？
Fridman.
弗里德曼.
Where do you live?
你住在哪里？
Austin, Texas.
德克萨斯州奥斯汀。
I would do the whole scene then I would get the sound.
我会完成整个场景，然后我会得到声音。
54:01 Bring the mic in close like that.
像这样将麦克风靠近。
Say it again.
再说一遍。
Lex Fridman.
莱克斯·弗里德曼。
54:05 Austin, Texas.
德克萨斯州奥斯汀。
That’ll probably sync.
这可能会同步。
54:09 Now if you were going on and on, there’s a place where it’d go out of sync.
现在，如果你一直这样说下去，就会有一个地方会变得不同步。
I hate rubbery lips, so I would cut away to the dog or to the knife or to the girl, and then I cut back when you’re back in sync.
我讨厌橡胶般的嘴唇，所以我会切到狗、刀或女孩，然后当你恢复同步时我会切回来。
And since these were non-actors, they say everything the same way each time.
由于这些人不是演员，所以他们每次都以同样的方式说一切。
[inaudible 00:54:28].
[听不清 00:54:28]。
They would say their line just like they weren’t performing it to where they didn’t remember how they performed the day before.
他们会说自己的台词，就像他们没有表演一样，以至于他们不记得前一天的表演如何。
54:27 They were just talking in their own rhythm.
他们只是按照自己的节奏说话。
So a lot of the times it’s…
所以很多时候是...
Anytime you see anyone on camera talking, they’re in sync with themselves and as soon as it cuts away, they’re out of sync.
任何时候你看到摄像机上有人说话，他们都会与自己保持同步，一旦镜头消失，他们就会失去同步。
And it created this really fast cutting style that I probably wouldn’t have had on such a low budget movie, but it was the only way to keep things in sync.
它创造了这种非常快速的剪辑风格，我可能不会在如此低预算的电影中拥有这种风格，但这是保持事物同步的唯一方法。
So when I would shoot two people talking, I would make sure I’d film a couple shots of the dog or a stuffed cat or something just so I’d have something to cut away to get them back in sync.
因此，当我拍摄两个人说话时，我会确保拍摄几张狗或毛绒猫之类的镜头，这样我就可以剪掉一些东西，让它们恢复同步。
That’s so brilliant.
太棒了。
I call it, it’s just resourceful.
我称之为，它只是足智多谋。
54:59 It just being very resourceful.
它只是非常足智多谋。
And you allow it to get maybe a little bit out of sync sometimes?
有时你会允许它变得有点不同步吗？
I didn’t allow it, but oh yeah, I would let it if I just didn’t have a way to cut away and I would try to sync it as best I could.
我不允许它，但是哦，是的，如果我没有办法切断它，我会允许它，并且我会尽力同步它。
But we as the audience, do you understand where the threshold is, where we notice something?
但我们作为观众，你明白门槛在哪里，我们在哪里注意到什么吗？
Yeah.
是的。
It seems like you can get away with a lot.
看起来你可以摆脱很多事情。
You can get away with…
你可以逃脱……
55:18 I just don’t, I’m just particular about that.
我只是不知道，我只是对此很挑剔。
I just don’t like seeing a dub movie where it just feels canned.
我只是不喜欢看一部感觉像是罐头的配音电影。
It makes you not believe in it anymore.
它让你不再相信它。
So I just cut away where the lips are just way off.
所以我只是把嘴唇离得很远的地方剪掉。
I just didn’t want any of that.
我只是不想要这些。
I just felt like, I wanted it to just be believable and they could be really believable if they were in sync.
我只是觉得，我希望它是可信的，如果他们同步的话，他们就可以真正可信。
But I didn’t shoot two takes of film or even two takes of audio, just one take.
但我没有拍摄两段胶片，甚至没有拍摄两段音频，只是拍摄了一次。
55:44 And what was cool is that because I just had them go through the whole scene again, so I would go ahead and record them, like grabbing the bottle or any action they did, opening the suitcase.
很酷的是，因为我只是让他们再次经历整个场景，所以我会继续记录他们，比如抓住瓶子或他们所做的任何动作，打开手提箱。
I’d have all the sound effects too.
我也会有所有的声音效果。
I just had to sync it by hand.
我只需要手动同步它。
That’s a lot of work for me, but I got great sound that way.
这对我来说是一项繁重的工作，但这样我就得到了很棒的声音。
Because If I had had a sync camera, the mic would’ve been so far, we would’ve had to go get new sound effects, but because the camera’s off, I could record everything close up, so there was some blessing to that.
因为如果我有同步摄像机，麦克风就会很远，我们就必须去获得新的音效，但因为摄像机关闭，我可以近距离录制所有内容，所以这是一些祝福。
You and Quentin Tarantino had a great conversation about a lot of topics, but one of them is how to bring out the best in the actors.
您和昆汀·塔伦蒂诺就很多话题进行了愉快的交谈，其中之一是如何发挥演员的最佳水平。
56:12 In that El Mariachi, how do you bring out the best in these non-actors?
在《El Mariachi》中，你如何让这些非演员发挥出最好的一面？
And then maybe what’s the thread that connects to your future work too?
那么也许与你未来的工作有什么联系呢？
What really helped for those non- actors was that they just look across and it’s me filming.
对那些非演员真正有帮助的是，他们只要看过去，就是我在拍摄。
56:27 They didn’t feel like they were…
他们并不觉得自己是……
So they’re being so natural.
所以他们表现得很自然。
The guy who played the bad guy, I met him in the research hospital where I sold my body to science.
那个扮演坏人的人，我在研究医院遇见了他，我在那里把我的身体卖给了科学。
He was my bunk mate.
他是我的室友。
And I said, “Dude, you look kind of like Rutger Hauer.
我说：“伙计，你看起来有点像鲁特格尔·豪尔。
And then it’s like, we saw another movie, “Man, you look like James Spader.
然后就像我们看了另一部电影，“伙计，你看起来像詹姆斯·斯派德。
You should be the bad guy in my movie and it’d be cool to have you as the bad guy.” He goes, “But I don’t speak Spanish.
你应该在我的电影中扮演坏人，让你扮演坏人真是太酷了。”他说：“但我不会说西班牙语。
Well, that’s okay, I’ll write and I’ll teach you it phonetically and you’re going to wear sunglasses,” and if you look close, he’s holding the lines here and he’s looking at the lines like that and just smiling.
好吧，没关系，我会写，我会用语音教你，你要戴上墨镜，”如果你仔细观察，他正拿着台词，他就这样看着台词，只是微笑。
Couldn’t believe he was getting away with this.
不敢相信他居然能逃脱惩罚。
He’s smiling and he’s got the sunglasses on.
他微笑着，戴着墨镜。
I read that somewhere in the pool, there’s a scene in the pool-
我在泳池的某个地方读到，泳池里有一个场景——
Yeah.
是的。
57:09 In the pool, he’s like this, “[inaudible 00:57:11].”
在泳池里，他就像这样，“[听不清 00:57:11]。”
With the sunglasses on, oh man.
戴上墨镜，天哪。
57:10 [inaudible 00:57:13].
[听不清 00:57:13]。
But he was doing it phonetically.
但他是用语音来表达的。
57:12 And I tell you what, he was so great, that guy, right?
我告诉你，他太棒了，那个家伙，对吧？
Yeah.
是的。
When we do Desperado, I brought him back.
当我们拍《亡命之徒》时，我把他带了回来。
57:18 Didn’t even have to do any dialogue.
甚至不需要进行任何对话。
Watch that movie.
看那部电影。
When he shows up in the opening scene when Desperado, he’s playing the guitar and the opening with the credits, to tie it into the first movie, he shows up again.
当他出现在《亡命之徒》的开场场景中时，他正在弹吉他，开场还有演职员表，为了将其与第一部电影联系起来，他再次出现。
And all he has to do is light a cigarette.
他所要做的就是点燃一根香烟。
And you see this, because he’s so nervous because now there’s a crew behind me.
你看到了这一点，因为他非常紧张，因为现在我身后有一个工作人员。
Now it’s real.
现在它是真的了。
Before it was just me and him and it didn’t feel like a real movie.
之前只有我和他，感觉不像一部真正的电影。
So everyone gave a great performance.
所以大家都奉献了精彩的表演。
So how do you recreate that later, on a big movie?
那么后来你如何在一部大电影中重现这一点呢？
Is just building a rapport, making a safe zone for your actors.
只是建立融洽的关系，为你的演员创造一个安全区。
Quentin once told me, we’re talking about directing, he goes, “Yeah, sometimes being a great director is just being a great audience.
昆汀曾经告诉我，我们正在谈论导演，他说，“是的，有时成为一名伟大的导演就是成为一名伟大的观众。
Being a great audience, because you’re taking the place of the audience for the actor.”
成为一名伟大的观众，因为你正在代替演员的观众。”
58:01 They try something and if you’re enjoying it, they know that the audience is going to enjoy it or if it makes you cry, so sometimes you don’t have to tell them a lot sometimes.
他们尝试一些东西，如果你喜欢它，他们知道观众会喜欢它，或者它会让你哭泣，所以有时你不必告诉他们很多。
And if you do have something very specific to tell them, they usually go with it.
如果你确实有一些非常具体的事情要告诉他们，他们通常会同意。
But I always just like to see what they do.
但我总是喜欢看看他们做什么。
And a lot of times they just are in the zone, because again, they’re getting that flow too.
很多时候他们只是处于状态，因为他们也得到了这种流动。
You create the right environment, everyone’s getting this inspiration that’s all tied together that you never could have directed.
你创造了合适的环境，每个人都会得到这种灵感，这些灵感是你永远无法指导的。
It’s just like you just create that space where we’re all going to be open to it and it’s going to drop in our lap.
就像你刚刚创造了一个我们都会对其开放的空间，它就会落在我们的腿上。
And I’m going to point it out when it does, because you may not feel like you know how to play this role yet, but I say not knowing is the other half of the battle and the more important part.
当它出现时我会指出这一点，因为你可能觉得你还不知道如何扮演这个角色，但我说不知道是战斗的另一半，也是更重要的部分。
58:44 That’s the part we’re going to discover, and when it happens, I’m going to point it out and it’s going to be like magic and we’re just going to go, “Okay, we’re accepting it,” and we do it.
这就是我们要发现的部分，当它发生时，我会指出它，它会像魔术一样，我们只会说，“好吧，我们接受它”，然后我们就去做。
And it gets people in that kind of headspace, and then we’re all open to it, to where the character’s supposed to go, what it’s supposed to sound like, instead of me being very manipulative to get a certain thing.
它让人们处于那种顶空，然后我们都对它持开放态度，对角色应该去的地方，它应该听起来像什么，而不是我为了得到某种东西而非常操纵。
I don’t know, it’s just whatever feels good.
我不知道，只要感觉良好就行。
Yeah, there’s such an intimate connection between the actor and the director.
是的，演员和导演之间的联系非常密切。
59:03 I’ve seen some of the behind the scenes footage with you.
我和你一起看过一些幕后花絮。
You are just a fan enjoying the scene when it’s done well.
当场景做得好的时候，你只是一个享受场景的粉丝。
But I think there’s an aspect, if I were to put myself in the headspace of the actor, they want you as the audience to earn that happiness.
但我认为有一个方面，如果我把自己放在演员的头上，他们希望你作为观众能够赢得那种快乐。
Because when a director approves…
因为当导演批准...
Yeah, when you’re a performer and there’s no other…
是的，当你是一名表演者并且没有其他人时......
59:21 It’s not like a live show where you get the approval of the audience and you’re like, “Oh, wow, they like that joke.
这不像现场表演，你得到观众的认可，然后你会说，“哦，哇，他们喜欢那个笑话。
Let me do more.” Really, the director is it.
让我做更多的事。”确实，导演就是这样。
And a lot of times the director’s way behind a monitor somewhere.
很多时候导演就在监视器后面的某个地方。
That’s why I still like to operate the camera, because when I’m operating the camera, it’s like this.
所以我还是喜欢操作相机，因为我操作相机的时候，就是这样的。
We can have a hundred people here, we wouldn’t know because they go away.
我们这里可以有一百个人，但我们不知道，因为他们走了。
It’s just us.
这只是我们。
They just disappear when it’s the camera guy is the director, and we’re going, “Let’s do that again.
当摄影师是导演时，它们就消失了，我们会说：“让我们再做一次。
Let’s do that again.”
让我们再做一次吧。”
59:47 There’s a shot in…
里面有一个镜头……
I’m lighting Sin City myself.
我自己点亮罪恶之城。
I have my crew setting lights and I have this great shot of Clive Owen and where he’s holding down Benicio’s head in the toilet.
我让我的工作人员设置灯光，我拍了克莱夫·欧文的精彩镜头，他在厕所里按住了本尼西奥的头。
Benicio’s not there.
本尼西奥不在。
It’s just a close up of him at this point, and I’m practicing my shot.
此时这只是他的特写镜头，我正在练习投篮。
I’m zooming in slow in his face and people are still walking behind him on the green screen setting lights, and I’m like, “I’m rolling.
我慢慢地拉近他的脸，在绿屏灯光下，人们仍然走在他身后，我就想，“我在滚动。
We’re ready to go.
我们准备出发了。
We’re getting this.
我们明白了。
I can already tell we’re already in the moment.
我已经知道我们已经到了这一刻。
What you’re doing right now, just keep holding that look.
你现在正在做的事情，只要保持那个表情即可。
Now one jolt, like he’s starting to fight back, but you don’t even flinch.
现在你猛地一震，就像他开始反击一样，但你甚至没有退缩。
Cut.
切。
Okay, nevermind.
好吧，没关系。
You guys can stop moving that shit.
你们可以停止移动那些狗屎了。
We already got the shot.”
我们已经开枪了。”
Holy shit.
天啊。
Like that.
就这样。
Wow.
哇。
Yeah.
是的。
1:00:23 It’s like that because you’re so lucky.
之所以会这样，是因为你太幸运了。
That’s a great scene, by the way.
顺便说一句，那是一个很棒的场景。
Great, right?
太棒了，对吧？
Holy shit.
天啊。
Because you could feel it.
因为你能感觉到。
1:00:25 It’s like if I wait for these guys, this moment will be gone.
就好像如果我等这些人，这一刻就会消失。
And then another one was Mickey Rourke.
另一位是米基·洛克。
He had so much freaking dialogue.
他有很多奇怪的对话。
He had just done this whole big dialogue scene.
他刚刚完成了整个大对话场景。
He had another one, I said, “Let’s go ahead and start with a wide shot,” where the two actors, if I’m the camera, Mickey and Elijah are here.
他还有另一个，我说，“让我们从广角镜头开始”，两个演员，如果我是摄像机，米奇和伊利亚都在这里。
Let’s get a two shot and we’ll come around on Mickey, close up.
让我们来两张镜头，然后我们会靠近米奇。
We’ll turn Mickey around for the close up, but let’s start with the wide thing, get used to the lines, and most of it’s going to be sold in a close up.
我们将把米奇转过来进行特写，但让我们从宽的东西开始，习惯线条，大部分都将在特写中出售。
1:00:52 We sit down, Mickey starts delivering the take.
我们坐下来，米奇开始拍摄。
I’m like, “Hold on, hold on a second.” I brought my camera over.
我说：“等一下，等一下。”我把相机拿了过来。
Zoom in.
放大。
“Just adjust that light real quick,” because I’m the DP.
“快速调整灯光”，因为我是摄影指导。
Because if I had another director of photography, they’d be like, “Oh, no, no, we have to relight,” and all this stuff.
因为如果我有另一位摄影导演，他们会说，“哦，不，不，我们必须重新照明，”以及所有这些东西。
It’s like, “No, no, let’s just do this.
就像，“不，不，我们就这样做吧。
Let’s go.
我们走吧。
He’s doing it right now.” And I go, and that performance is just right then.
他现在就在这么做。”我就走了，那时的表现就恰到好处。
And so you can feel that when you’re also, you’re operating and you’re the camera guy and you’re the DP.
所以你可以感觉到，当你也在操作时，你是摄影师，你是摄影指导。
It’s like high-tech guerrilla filmmaking.
这就像高科技游击电影制作。
Yeah, we’re on a green screen, but it’s like all the crew needs are marching orders.
是的，我们在绿屏上，但这就像所有船员的需求都是行军命令。
“Just put a light back there, hitting them harder.
“只要在后面放一盏灯，用力地打它们就可以了。
This is a 5K, make that a 10K.
这是 5K，将其改为 10K。
It’s got to be stronger.”
它必须变得更强。”
1:01:31 They don’t need to know that I’m going to make that a lamp post later.
他们不需要知道我稍后会把它做成灯柱。
They just need marching orders for the moment so I can just kind of tell people, “Do this, do this, do that,” and then I know what I can accomplish with the actor and then everything else falls into place later because I’m going to put all that in later.
他们暂时只需要行军命令，这样我就可以告诉人们，“做这个，做这个，做那个”，然后我知道我可以和演员一起完成什么，然后其他一切都会在以后就位，因为我会把所有这些都放在以后。
Once you know how to do a lot of jobs like that, you can just move at the speed of thought, which is where the actors love being, creatively.
一旦你知道如何做很多这样的工作，你就可以以思想的速度行动，这就是演员喜欢的创造性的地方。
Because nobody knew what green screen was back then.
因为当时没有人知道什么是绿屏。
1:01:54 They’re like, “What is this again?” So I explained it as, “Well, it’s kind of like doing theater, but instead of a black curtain behind you with a prop, it’ll be a green curtain and you might just have a cup or just a steering wheel, but it’s just you and the other actors just like this and everything else will be painted in later.
他们会说，“这又是什么？”所以我解释说，“嗯，这有点像做戏剧，但你身后不是一个带有道具的黑色幕布，而是一个绿色的幕布，你可能只有一个杯子或一个方向盘，但只有你和其他演员就像这样，其他所有东西都会在以后画上。
We’re just talking.
我们只是在说话。
We’re locked in.
我们被锁在里面了。
If we stay locked in, we’ll look great when there’s rain coming down and we’re on a ship later.” But it comes down to this, right?
如果我们呆在家里，下雨时我们会看起来很棒，稍后我们就可以上船了。”但归根结底就是这样，对吧？
It was so fun to do those kind of movies.
拍这类电影真是太有趣了。
So to this day, you try to be close to the action, connected with the actor that’s performing.
所以直到今天，你都会尝试接近动作，与正在表演的演员建立联系。
Because it’s like a dance.
因为这就像一场舞蹈。
1:02:26 You end up-
你最终会——
That’s so cool to hear.
听到这真是太酷了。
…
……
1:02:29 like remember on Dusk Till Dawn, Michael Parks in the opening scene, he’s talking about the two guys that are running around killing people just before he gets shot.
就像《杀出个黎明》中迈克尔·帕克斯在开场场景中所记得的那样，他正在谈论在他被枪杀之前那两个到处乱跑杀人的家伙。
And I just start doing this slow zoom.
我刚刚开始缓慢变焦。
I remember it was take eight, start doing this slow zoom on him.
我记得八点钟，开始对他进行缓慢的变焦。
And I’m like, I hope I get all the way up to where it stops zooming when he finishes that speech, because there’s no set way, and I don’t know how he’s going to say it.
我想，我希望当他完成演讲时我能一直到停止放大的地方，因为没有固定的方式，我不知道他会怎么说。
But you’re just locked almost telepathically.
但你几乎是通过心灵感应被锁定的。
And has he delivered?
他交付了吗？
There’s no edits.
没有任何编辑。
He’s just going, “Yeah, they killed four rangers, two hostages.” It’s just like, wow.
他只是说，“是的，他们杀了四名护林员，两名人质。”就像，哇。
And you’re just so pulled in.
而你就这么被吸引了。
I’m just like, oh my God.
我就像，天哪。
And then it stopped.
然后它就停了。
It’s like I ran out of zoom right as he finished that speech.
就好像他演讲结束时我就失去了变焦能力。
So how can a director, because there’s a lot of great directors that stay-
那么导演怎么能呢，因为有很多伟大的导演留下来——
In the bag.
在袋子里。
1:03:14 I don’t know, it’s hard.
我不知道，这很难。
…
……
1:03:16 in the back of the battlefield.
在战场的后方。
You know, they just trust that whatever they get from their crew, they just accept it.
你知道，他们只是相信无论从船员那里得到什么，他们都会接受。
Just like you would get a take to-
就像你会得到-
There’s so much intimacy to that connection.
这种联系非常亲密。
But I like that intimate connection because I could not be behind a monitor.
但我喜欢这种亲密的联系，因为我不能坐在显示器后面。
1:03:23 Even if I had communication with my cameraman, ” Okay, now start zooming in.” You’re not going to know.
即使我和摄影师沟通过，“好吧，现在开始放大。”你不会知道的。
You have to feel it.
你必须感受它。
You have to be in there.
你必须在里面。
It’s like a dance.
这就像一场舞蹈。
It’s like trying to do a dance with a partner and you’re across the room.
这就像试图与舞伴一起跳舞，而你却在房间的另一边。
It’s like, no, you got to be there up close, feeling the energy and it’s the creative spirits whispering to you both.
就好像，不，你必须近距离地感受能量，这是创造力的精神在对你们俩低语。
It’s not your own idea.
这不是你自己的想法。
It’s, you’re capturing a moment that’s magic, and there’s true magic that happens on a set, and that’s what brings you back.
是的，你正在捕捉一个神奇的时刻，而场景中发生了真正的神奇，这就是让你回想起的原因。
Because you know, I didn’t direct that and they didn’t act that.
因为你知道，这不是我指挥的，他们也没有这样做。
That came through us, and we just had the cameras rolling and we captured a ghost.
那是通过我们而来的，我们只要开动相机就捕捉到了一个鬼魂。
Just like you said though, you had the pen in hand and you were there.
就像你说的，你手里拿着笔，你就在那里。
It’s like that.
就是这样。
It just came through.
它刚刚通过。
It’s crazy.
太疯狂了。
1:04:05 It’s crazy.
太疯狂了。
All right.
好吧。
1:04:06 Your friendship with Tarantino is just fascinating.
你和塔伦蒂诺的友谊真是令人着迷。
And just the whole timeline, the history of movies and the two of you collided and met is just a fascinating part of the story.
而整个时间线、电影的历史以及你们两个的碰撞和相遇只是故事中引人入胜的部分。
You first met him in 1992 at the Toronto Film Festival.
你第一次见到他是在 1992 年的多伦多电影节上。
Can you just talk about meeting Tarantino?
你能谈谈与塔伦蒂诺的见面吗？
Yeah.
是的。
1:04:22 We both had films at the same time, first films, guys in black, action, violence.
我们同时拍电影，第一部电影，黑衣人，动作，暴力。
In fact, I had seen his movie already.
事实上，我已经看过他的电影了。
My first film festival was a few months before that, the Telluride Film Festival and Reservoir Dogs was there, but Quentin couldn’t be there.
我的第一个电影节是在那之前的几个月，特柳赖德电影节和落水狗都在那里，但昆汀不能在那里。
He was at Sundance earlier that year, and the guy who became my agent, he saw it.
那年早些时候他在圣丹斯电影节，后来成为我经纪人的那个人，他看到了这一点。
He said, “Hey, you’re going to like this guy, Quentin Tarantino.
他说：“嘿，你会喜欢这个人的，昆汀·塔伦蒂诺。
I told him about you, you’re going to meet him.
我告诉过他你的事，你会见到他的。
He’s going to be in Toronto.” “Oh, cool, cool.
他要去多伦多。” “哦，酷，酷。
Okay.” So I went ahead and saw his movie in Telluride and I was like, “Holy shit.” Guys in black again, just like the mariachis dressed in black and action.
好吧。”所以我继续在特柳赖德看了他的电影，我当时想，“天哪。”又是黑衣人了，就像墨西哥流浪乐队穿着黑衣行动一样。
I said, “Oh, we’re going to like each other’s movie.
我说：“哦，我们会喜欢彼此的电影。
He’s going to like the movie when he see it.”
当他看到这部电影时，他会喜欢这部电影的。”
1:04:57 So then in Toronto we met and we met first on a…
然后我们在多伦多见面了，我们第一次见面是在……
Because I knew I was going to be doing a panel discussion with him.
因为我知道我将与他进行小组讨论。
They asked us to do a panel discussion about violence in movies in the ’90s, even though it was only ’92.
他们要求我们就 90 年代电影中的暴力进行小组讨论，尽管那只是 92 年。
So we’re on a panel together, and that’s where I met him and he’s like, “Hey, you’re Robert Rodriguez, your agent told me about you.” And I was like, “Yeah, I saw your movie Reservoir Dogs.” And he goes, “Oh, well you got to come to my screening, and I’m going to come see yours.” So he came to Mariachi and I videotaped the audience reactions because they were insane, insane reactions to it.
所以我们一起参加一个小组，那就是我遇见他的地方，他就像，“嘿，你是罗伯特·罗德里格斯，你的经纪人告诉我关于你的事。”我当时想，“是的，我看了你的电影《落水狗》。”他说：“哦，好吧，你必须来观看我的放映，我也会去看你的放映。”所以他来到了墨西哥流浪乐队，我录下了观众的反应，因为他们对此的反应非常非常疯狂。
But I have the first screening he saw of Mariachi sitting next to me laughing.
但我第一次看到他在放映时看到流浪乐队坐在我旁边大笑。
He’s laughing at everything.
他对一切都笑。
He was just the best audience.
他只是最好的观众。
I have his recording of the first time he saw Mariachi.
我有他第一次见到墨西哥流浪乐队时的录音。
Oh no, really?
哦，不，真的吗？
Yeah, because I taped the whole thing.
是的，因为我把整个事情都录下来了。
That’s so cool.
太酷了。
He’s so loud because he’s right next to me.
他这么大声是因为他就在我旁边。
Well, just like you, but even probably even more than you, he’s a fan.
嗯，就像你一样，但甚至可能比你更重要的是，他是一个粉丝。
1:05:43 He watches…
他看着……
He just loves movies, right?
他只是喜欢电影，对吧？
He loves movies.
他喜欢电影。
1:05:50 In fact, the next time I heard him laugh that way was at his own premiere for Kill Bill.
事实上，我下次听到他那样笑是在他自己的《杀死比尔》首映式上。
We’re watching Kill Bill, and he’s laughing like it’s somebody else’s movie.
我们正在看《杀死比尔》，他笑得就像是别人的电影一样。
He still enjoys the movie.
他仍然很喜欢这部电影。
He loves what all the actors did.
他喜欢所有演员的表演。
And it’s like, that’s the kind of energy you really love.
就像，这就是你真正喜欢的能量。
But I’ll tell you what happened.
但我会告诉你发生了什么。
I’m a very shy person, very shy.
我是一个非常害羞的人，非常害羞。
I’d have to go talk.
我得去谈谈。
I’m sure you probably feel like you’re not an orator or anything, just have to go do it.
我相信你可能会觉得你不是一个演说家或者什么的，只是必须去做。
I thought, well man, I’m going to have to introduce my film and talk about it afterwards.
我想，好吧，我得先介绍一下我的电影，然后再谈。
I’m afraid of that.
我担心这个。
What am I going to do?
我要做什么？
I don’t remember talking in front of more than five people before.
我不记得以前在超过五个人面前说过话。
So I went to see this other movie and it was good, and I was watching it, and then the director comes up at the end, he goes, “Yeah, well, that was my movie and here’s the writer.”
所以我去看了另一部电影，它很好，我正在看它，然后导演在最后出现，他说，“是的，好吧，那是我的电影，这是编剧。”
1:06:37 And it’s like, oh man, I don’t like the movie anymore.
就像，天哪，我不再喜欢这部电影了。
This guy’s kind of a dick, so I cannot do that.
这家伙有点混蛋，所以我不能这么做。
I’m going to have to go be who they imagine made that movie.
我必须成为他们想象中的那部电影的制作者。
So I wrote out my whole intro.
所以我写下了我的整个介绍。
It was like a 20-minute intro.
这就像一个 20 分钟的介绍。
Because no one had ever heard of anybody making a movie for no money, much less without a crew, much less, the way I did it was just very new.
因为没有人听说过有人不花钱拍一部电影，更不用说没有剧组了，更不用说我的拍摄方式是非常新的了。
Nobody knew it was possible.
没有人知道这是可能的。
So my whole intro is like, “You’ll see the Columbia logo slapped in front.
所以我的整个介绍是这样的，“你会看到哥伦比亚标志拍在前面。
It probably cost more than the whole movie.” And then I go through, “This is how I made it with a wheelchair for a dolly, a turtle.
它的成本可能比整部电影还要高。”然后我说：“这就是我用轮椅为小娃娃、乌龟制作的方法。
I wrote around things I had,” I mentioned the turtle, the pit bull, the bus, the ranch, all that stuff.
我写的都是我拥有的东西，”我提到了乌龟、斗牛犬、公共汽车、牧场，所有这些东西。
1:07:19 So then when they see the movie…
那么当他们看到这部电影时……
In fact, I think my wife was in the audience, she said, “At Sundance, people are laughing so much at your intro, they just wanted to hear a story like this so badly.
事实上，我认为我的妻子就在观众席上，她说：“在圣丹斯电影节上，人们对你的介绍笑得很开心，他们只是非常想听这样的故事。
I heard someone next to me say, ‘I’m going to vote for his movie.'” They hadn’t even seen the movie yet, just because the story was so good, they wanted that movie to be great.
我听到旁边有人说，‘我要投票给他的电影。’”他们甚至还没有看过这部电影，只是因为故事太好了，他们希望这部电影很棒。
And when they see the turtle, big cheers.
当他们看到海龟时，大家欢呼雀跃。
When they see the pit bull, big cheers.
当他们看到斗牛犬时，欢呼雀跃。
When they see the school bus, cheers.
当他们看到校车时，欢呼起来。
But then when they see how we use it and he slams into it and falls in it, they fucking lose their minds because they know how I put it together.
但是当他们看到我们如何使用它并且他猛烈地撞到它并掉进去时，他们他妈的失去了理智，因为他们知道我是如何将它组合在一起的。
They know that the rubber bands and the popsicle sticks, because I already set it up.
他们知道橡皮筋和冰棒是粘在一起的，因为我已经把它们设置好了。
1:07:55 And so that’s why that audience, I just taped the reaction, they’re so with it.
这就是为什么我刚刚录下了观众的反应，他们对此非常满意。
The context is so key.
上下文是如此关键。
You can watch Mariachi and go, “Hey, yeah, this looks like a $7,000 movie,” but if you know the story behind it, suddenly…
你可以看墨西哥流浪乐队然后说，“嘿，是的，这看起来像是一部 7,000 美元的电影，”但如果你知道它背后的故事，突然……
I was curious.
我很好奇。
I hadn’t seen it in a long time.
我已经很久没看到它了。
I was watching it for the 20th anniversary, we did a screening.
我在庆祝 20 周年纪念日时观看了它，我们进行了放映。
And the first few shots come up and I’m like, “Oh yeah, well, it looks like a $7,000 movie.” And then it keeps going.
出现前几个镜头时，我就想，“哦，是的，好吧，这看起来像是一部 7,000 美元的电影。”然后它继续下去。
And once we’re in the jail cell and the shooting’s happening, and I realized, oh my God, we had these blanks that only fired one shot and it would jam.
一旦我们进了监狱，枪击事件就发生了，我意识到，天哪，我们的这些空弹只开了一枪，就会卡壳。
So I had to show it going, use the sound effect, cut to the other guy, cut back, have another one go.
所以我必须展示它，使用音效，切到另一个人，切回，再进行一次。
1:08:36 I’d have to do these editing tricks and then repeat a few frames so it looks like a machine gun.
我必须执行这些编辑技巧，然后重复几帧，使其看起来像机关枪。
All these stuff that I’m start sweating as I’m watching it going, “I can’t believe I made this movie with that freaking camera.” I don’t know how I did.
当我看着这一切的时候，我开始流汗，“我不敢相信我用那台该死的相机拍了这部电影。”我不知道我是怎么做的。
I couldn’t even see.
我什至都看不到。
I’m there with this long lens pulling my own focus.
我带着这个长镜头来吸引自己的焦点。
When I finally had to do a real movie, I was operating the camera on my first real movie with a crew, and I get the camera and a guy comes over and he focuses for you.
当我最终不得不拍一部真正的电影时，我正在与工作人员一起操作我的第一部真正的电影中的相机，我拿到相机，一个人走过来，他为你对焦。
You go, “That’s your job, you focus?
你说：“那是你的工作，你专注吗？
Shit, I had to do my own focusing on the last movie.” I was so hard.
糟糕，我必须自己专注于最后一部电影。”我太难了。
You’re trying to focus on a guy while you’re filming.
拍摄时你试图将注意力集中在一个人身上。
You don’t know where you are, and it’s just, I couldn’t believe how much easier it is when you have a crew.
你不知道自己在哪里，只是，我不敢相信当你有一个团队时，事情会变得多么容易。
It’s extremely valuable to know that the pain of that, the spectrum of creativity that’s allowed within that, even just the focusing, like how focusing fucks up on older cameras and newer cameras, what are different artifacts that come up.
知道其中的痛苦，其中所允许的创造力范围，甚至只是聚焦，就像旧相机和新相机上的聚焦如何搞砸，出现的不同伪影一样，这是非常有价值的。
1:09:17 Just to know the battlefield.
只是为了了解战场。
In order to be a great general, you have to know how to be a soldier on the battlefield.
要想成为一名伟大的将军，就必须懂得如何在战场上当一名士兵。
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
1:09:37 It’s good to know all that stuff.
很高兴了解所有这些东西。
But it’s like at the end of the day, you could shoot something on a phone, and if you have a great story, no one’s going to even notice.
但这就像在一天结束时，你可以用手机拍摄一些东西，如果你有一个很棒的故事，甚至没有人会注意到。
They’ll be, “Oh, you shot that on a phone?
他们会说，“哦，你是用手机拍的吗？
I didn’t notice.” So sometimes people get caught up on what kind of camera should I have?” It’s like, it’s not the camera.
我没注意到。”所以有时人们会纠结我应该拥有什么样的相机？”就像，这不是相机。
That’s just the tool.
这只是工具。
That’s just the pen.
那只是笔。
That’s just like, yeah, you can have different paint brushes, but you can go, “I’m going to limit my palette.
这就像，是的，你可以有不同的画笔，但你可以说，“我要限制我的调色板。
I’m only going to use a fan brush and a detail brush, and I’m going to make a painting.” Do you think that painting’s going to suffer?
我只会使用扇形笔刷和细节笔刷，然后我就可以画一幅画了。”你认为这幅画会受到影响吗？
1:10:00 – and a detail brush and I’m going to make a painting.
– 和一个细节画笔，我要画一幅画。
Do you think that painting’s going to suffer?
你认为这幅画会受到影响吗？
No.
不。
It’s going to take on an identity that you wouldn’t have had if you had all the other tools.
如果你拥有所有其他工具，它将呈现出你不会拥有的身份。
So sometimes the limitations help you because when you can do anything, it can be crippling.
所以有时这些限制会对你有所帮助，因为当你可以做任何事情时，它可能会造成严重后果。
When I knew I could only use those things for Mariachi, it’s like, all right, well it’s very simple now.
当我知道我只能在 Mariachi 中使用这些东西时，就好像，好吧，现在很简单了。
1:10:18 Let me show you how cheapskate I was, I did not spend on anything.
让我告诉你我是多么的小气鬼，我什么也没花。
So when you see him walking around with a guitar case, it’s a shitty cardboard one I got from home.
所以当你看到他带着吉他盒走来走去时，那是我从家里买的一个劣质纸板盒。
I had to get a heavier one to put the guns in.
我必须买一把更重的枪来装枪。
So we borrowed one, but it had this material ripped off the top so you could see the wood.
所以我们借了一个，但它的顶部材料被撕掉了，这样你就可以看到木头了。
It was just the wood on top so it didn’t match the other one because it wasn’t all black and I was too cheap to paint it black.
它只是顶部的木头，所以它与另一块不匹配，因为它不是全黑的，而且我太便宜了，无法将其漆成黑色。
I didn’t want to spend money on paint.
我不想花钱买油漆。
So you see that cardboard case, he puts it down and when he goes to open it, I cut to the other one.
所以你看到那个纸板箱，他把它放下，当他打开它时，我切到另一个。
Once the wood is…
一旦木头...
Yeah.
是的。
Watch the edits, you’ll see it open.
观看编辑，您会看到它打开。
1:10:53 Now it’s a completely different case with the guns.
现在枪支的情况完全不同了。
And when he goes to cut it and close it cuts to the other one and he goes out.
当他去切断它并关闭它时，它就切断了另一根，然后他就出去了。
That’s how I did that whole movie.
这就是我完成整部电影的方式。
Again it was a practice film.
这又是一部练习片。
I don’t want to waste any money on it.
我不想在上面浪费任何钱。
I don’t know if it’s going to be, I won’t be able to make five bucks from it.
我不知道会不会这样，我赚不到五块钱。
Yeah, but you’re one of the few great directors where both the movie’s genius and the process of making it is creative genius.
是的，但你是为数不多的电影天才和制作过程都是创造性天才的伟大导演之一。
1:11:08 It’s like fun to watch both, to know of both.
观看两者、了解两者都很有趣。
You know what I believe.
你知道我相信什么。
Right.
对。
1:11:22 It’s from somewhere else.
这是从其他地方来的。
I have to say that thing is freaking…
我不得不说这件事太可怕了……
1:11:24 I didn’t get in it’s way basically would help.
我没有妨碍它基本上会有所帮助。
And people say that, “Don’t get in your own way.” This is a little bit easier to understand.
人们常说：“不要妨碍你自己。”这有点容易理解。
It’s like keep the pipe clear.
就像保持管道畅通一样。
Don’t block it with your ego.
不要用你的自我来阻止它。
Don’t say you’re going to be shocked, but don’t ever say, “Oh, shit how do I do that?
不要说你会感到震惊，但也不要说：“哦，天哪，我该怎么做？
I don’t know if I can do that.” You didn’t do it to begin with.
我不知道我是否能做到这一点。”你一开始就没有这样做。
Accept that it just came through you and try to get back into that head space, especially when you go to make a second film or a third film or follow up a success.
接受它只是通过你而来，并尝试回到那个头脑空间，尤其是当你要制作第二部电影或第三部电影或跟进成功时。
That’s when artists get really crippled because sometimes they start tiptoeing around as an artist going like, “Oh shit, now it’s my second film.
这就是艺术家真正陷入瘫痪的时候，因为有时他们开始像艺术家一样小心翼翼地走来走去，“哦，糟糕，现在这是我的第二部电影了。
My first one did really well.
我的第一个做得非常好。
They might not like my second one so much.”
他们可能不太喜欢我的第二个。”
1:12:04 That’s not the head space you were in when you made the first one.
这不是你制作第一个时所处的头部空间。
You weren’t hesitant like that.
你并没有那样犹豫。
You’re just…
你只是……
So try to keep that very naive and that’s why I say commit to a body of work.
所以尽量保持天真，这就是为什么我说要致力于一系列工作。
I know a lot of filmmakers get stuck on their second one and then go further because they get crippled by the success of the first one and they start asking, “Oh shit, how did I do that?
我知道很多电影制片人都陷入了第二部影片的困境，然后又走得更远，因为第一部影片的成功让他们陷入了困境，他们开始问：“天啊，我是怎么做到的？
How can I do that again?” And you get deeper and deeper in a hole you can’t get out of.
我怎么能再这样呢？”然后你就会在一个洞里越陷越深，无法摆脱。
I think you’ve spoken about that filmmakers, especially early on in their journey, critics and the audience can destroy them, meaning it creates too much of a burden, too much, just wear them down to where they’re almost scared to be creative.
我想你已经谈到了电影制作人，特别是在他们的旅程的早期，评论家和观众可以摧毁他们，这意味着它造成了太多的负担，太多，只是让他们疲惫不堪，几乎不敢发挥创造力。
1:12:24 Can you just speak to that how to ignore the critic?
你能谈谈如何忽略批评者吗？
I’ll tell you something that my best advice ever got early on, I was so fortunate, from an unlikely place because he’s such, he sounded like Clint Eastwood when he said it, it was funny when you said that.
我会告诉你一些我很早就得到的最好建议，我很幸运，来自一个不太可能的地方，因为他就是这样，当他说这句话时，他听起来像克林特·伊斯特伍德，当你这么说时，这很有趣。
1:12:42 But I got, I did Desperado and had Antonio Banderas, I brought Antonio to be in it from Europe, big action movie.
但我得到了，我拍了《亡命之徒》，还有安东尼奥·班德拉斯，我从欧洲带来了安东尼奥，一部大型动作片。
And so Spielberg saw it and he said, “Hey, I want you to do Zorro with Antonio.” So we’re working on it for a while, I was working on the pre-production, got to work with Spielberg doing that.
斯皮尔伯格看到了，他说：“嘿，我想让你和安东尼奥一起演佐罗。”所以我们已经为此工作了一段时间，我正在进行前期制作，并与斯皮尔伯格合作。
It ended up stalling because there was two studios involved and Amblin was moving or it was some weird thing where, but I got to work with him for about five months and I started getting really nervous because it’s like, oh shit, you start thinking about, even movies of his that people would say, “Oh, Temple of Doom is not as good as Raiders.” Have you seen Temple of Doom?
它最终陷入停滞，因为涉及两家工作室，而安布林正在搬家，或者发生了一些奇怪的事情，但我和他一起工作了大约五个月，我开始变得非常紧张，因为这就像，哦，操，你开始思考，即使是他的电影，人们也会说，“哦，末日神殿不如攻略。”你看过末日神殿吗？
I would kill to fucking do that movie.
我真想他妈的去拍那部电影。
1:13:35 If I can make Zorro as good as that one, the one that people said, it’s like people don’t know how good they had it with that guy.
如果我能让佐罗像人们所说的那样出色，就像人们不知道他们和那个家伙相处得有多好一样。
But I started thinking, I even said, “Man, I just rewatched Temple of Doom last night.
但我开始思考，我什至说，“伙计，我昨晚刚刚重看了《末日神殿》。
I don’t know how I’m going to do the Zorro movie.
我不知道我要怎么拍佐罗电影。
I’ve just never done anything like that.” You start getting afraid because you go, the second thing he said, “Oh Rob, you’re going to do fine.” But then I started thinking, this guy, at that time, you may not know the era, but this was like mid-nineties, he was making the biggest, best movies of all and people would shit all over this guy.
我只是从来没有做过这样的事情。”当你离开时，你开始感到害怕，他说的第二句话是：“哦，罗布，你会做得很好。”但后来我开始想，这个家伙，在那个时候，你可能不知道那个时代，但这就像九十年代中期，他正在制作最大、最好的电影，人们会在这个家伙身上拉屎。
They would throw so much, they were so jealous.
他们会扔那么多，他们非常嫉妒。
Press, audience, everyone was just hits at them, just throwing rocks at him for everything.
媒体、观众、每个人都对他们进行攻击，对他的一切行为都扔石头。
Spielberg?
斯皮尔伯格？
You can’t imagine it now.
你现在无法想象。
1:14:19 You had to been at that time.
你当时一定在。
Now everyone has respect for him, but they made him run a fucking gauntlet and they were like, “Jurassic Park, meh.” You can’t even imagine it now, but you should have seen the climate.
现在每个人都尊重他，但他们让他受到了他妈的挑战，他们就像，“侏罗纪公园，嗯。”你现在甚至无法想象，但你应该见过这种气候。
It freaked me out because I’m like maybe I should just stay under the radar where I’ve been, not poke my head out so much.
这让我很害怕，因为我想也许我应该留在雷达下，而不是那么多地探出头来。
Yeah.
是的。
Because this guy has his head out and unwarranted.
因为这家伙已经把头伸出来了，毫无根据。
1:14:40 You can’t even fathom it now because you weren’t here at that time.
你现在甚至无法理解它，因为当时你不在这里。
It was crazy.
太疯狂了。
You would never even think of him that way.
你永远不会那样想他。
I’m glad it changed because back then was just, it made people not want to be successful and it made me be worried, maybe I shouldn’t be go making a movie that has his name on it, that’s going to put my head out in a whole different realm of filmmaking at a studio level.
我很高兴它发生了变化，因为当时只是，它让人们不想成功，这让我担心，也许我不应该去制作一部有他名字的电影，这会让我在工作室层面上进入一个完全不同的电影制作领域。
Because even if I make a good movie, if I make a great movie, he’s making great movies and he’s getting this dog shit.
因为即使我拍了一部好电影，如果我拍了一部很棒的电影，他也在拍很棒的电影，而他却得到了这些狗屎。
I don’t know if I could take it.
我不知道我是否能接受。
1:15:13 So I asked him, because you don’t know how resilient you can be, so I said, “Man, how do you do it?
所以我问他，因为你不知道自己的韧性有多强，所以我说：“伙计，你是怎么做到的？
What do you do when people just throw rocks at you all day long?” He goes, “Oh, Robert, you just don’t blink.” And I was like, whoa, now I see how he got through it.
当人们整天向你扔石头时你会怎么做？”他说：“哦，罗伯特，你就是不眨眼。”我当时想，哇，现在我知道他是如何度过难关的了。
Just don’t blink.
只是不要眨眼。
Just like you know what’s coming, don’t blink.
就像您知道即将发生什么一样，不要眨眼。
And to him say it is like a Clint Eastwood line, right?
对他来说这就像克林特·伊斯特伍德的台词，对吗？
Yeah.
是的。
But it was like you could see he was telling the truth and you could see that’s how he did it.
但就好像你可以看到他说的是实话，你也可以看到他就是这么做的。
1:15:43 He just avoided all criticism by just not blinking.
他只是不眨眼就避免了所有的批评。
It’s like it’s designed to make you blink and you’re just not going to blink because you’re committing to a body of work.
就好像它是为了让你眨眼而设计的，但你只是不会眨眼，因为你正在致力于一项工作。
He just keeps cranking out movies.
他只是不断地拍电影。
Whatever he feels like doing, he does.
无论他想做什么，他就会做什么。
And that was the most power and it never bothered me again.
那是最强大的力量，它再也没有困扰过我。
I just always kept in mind, I tell that to my actors, I tell that people, that story has traveled.
我只是一直牢记在心，我告诉我的演员，我告诉人们，这个故事已经传播开来。
I even had some little actors who were starting to get up and I said, “Remember, tell you a couple of things.
我什至有一些小演员开始站起来，我说：“记住，告诉你几件事。
Some people have told me you’re never as good as people say you are and you’re never as bad either.” George Clooney told me that one, so I remember that.
有些人告诉我，你永远不会像人们说的那么好，也永远不会像人们说的那么糟糕。”乔治·克鲁尼告诉过我这件事，所以我记得那件事。
And then the second one, Spielberg, “Don’t blink.
然后第二个，斯皮尔伯格，“不要眨眼。
Don’t blink.”
别眨眼。”
But there has to be a kind of vision for yourself of what you’re reaching for, what you’re trying to do.
但你必须对自己想要达到的目标、想要做的事情有一种愿景。
Again, yeah, I think if you just told me what would be my vision for the future, just committing to a body of work, which I’ve just kept doing.
再说一次，是的，我想如果你告诉我我对未来的愿景是什么，只是致力于一系列工作，我一直在做。
1:16:35 That’s about as far as you can see.
就你所能看到的来说，差不多就是这样了。
Do you have a sense, do you have a vision of the body of work you’ll make in the next 20 years?
您是否对未来 20 年内将要完成的工作有一个预感或愿景？
Yeah.
是的。
Or is it just this fog?
或者只是这雾？
I did.
我做到了。
1:16:53 I did.
我做到了。
I wasn’t sure because you don’t always know with the…
我不确定，因为你并不总是知道……
You might not have the vision yet because you don’t have the information yet.
您可能还没有愿景，因为您还没有信息。
So if you just commit to a body of work, you’ll start figuring out more reasons to keep doing that body of work.
因此，如果你只是致力于一项工作，你就会开始找出更多继续从事这项工作的理由。
So when I turned 50, I was like, I guess I could just keep making movies.
所以当我 50 岁的时候，我想，我想我可以继续拍电影。
I mean, I guess that’s been good for me.
我的意思是，我想这对我有好处。
I guess I could just make more.
我想我可以赚更多。
I kind of done that already, but it’s always fun and it’s always new and I guess I could make, but it wasn’t a lot of drive, right?
我已经这么做了，但它总是很有趣，而且总是新的，我想我可以做到，但动力不够，对吧？
1:17:20 It’s like, well, I guess I could just keep doing that but, that’s not as much as I can’t wait to keep doing another season.
就像，好吧，我想我可以继续这样做，但是，这并不是我迫不及待地想继续做另一个赛季。
But I didn’t know how to get to that point.
但我不知道如何达到这一点。
So I thought, you know what?
所以我想，你知道吗？
I got to this job so early, I was in the early twenties.
我很早就开始这份工作了，那时我才二十岁出头。
I bet there’s some other job out there that exists that I don’t even know about because I don’t know other jobs.
我敢打赌，还有其他工作存在，但我什至不知道，因为我不知道其他工作。
So I looked up, you’re not going to believe it, but I literally bought Jobs for Dummies.
所以我抬头一看，你不会相信，但我确实买了《乔布斯傻瓜书》。
Nice.
不错。
I was just like, I don’t even know what basic job even out there, turning the page, oh yeah, don’t want that job.
我当时想，我什至不知道那里有什么基本工作，翻过这一页，哦，是的，我不想要那份工作。
1:17:44 I don’t want that job.
我不想要那份工作。
I don’t want that job.
我不想要那份工作。
It’s just going through and it gets to filmmaker and there’s a little icon beside this job, this icon is a guy like this.
它刚刚经历过，就到达了电影制作人那里，在这份工作旁边有一个小图标，这个图标是这样的一个人。
Literally you look it up and it says, “This is the best job ever.
从字面上看，你查了一下，它说：“这是有史以来最好的工作。
You get to just be creative with your friends, sit back, watch the money roll in, across the desk.” And it said, “But 99% of film students don’t get this job, so give up that dream.” So I was like, I guess I got the best job.
你可以和你的朋友一起发挥创意，坐下来，看着钱从桌子对面滚滚而来。”上面写着，“但是99%的电影系学生都没有得到这份工作，所以放弃这个梦想吧。”所以我想，我想我得到了最好的工作。
1:18:14 But then I started working with my kids when we did, I had a TV show called Rebel Without a Crew based on that, where I found filmmakers who had only made a short film that hadn’t made a feature.
但后来我开始和我的孩子们一起工作，我根据这个节目制作了一个名为《无剧组反叛》的电视节目，在那里我找到了只制作了一部短片而没有制作长片的电影制片人。
I picked this diverse group of filmmakers, gave them $7,000, and we documented them making a feature two weeks like I did.
我挑选了这群多元化的电影制作人，给了他们 7,000 美元，然后我们像我一样记录了他们制作故事片的两周时间。
You can bring one person.
您可以带一个人。
I had Carlos Gallardo, the producer and star of Mariachi, “Bring one person, can be your cameraman or you can be your sound guy, whatever.
我邀请了卡洛斯·加拉多（Carlos Gallardo），《流浪乐队》的制作人和主演，“带一个人来，可以是你的摄影师，也可以是你的音响师，等等。
But it’s only that for the shoot and you’d have to do the whole thing.” And I saw those guys by the time they’re like, “I don’t know how we’re going to make this movie.” By the first week of shooting, they’re already talking about their next feature.
但这只是为了拍摄，你必须做所有的事情。”当我看到那些人时，他们会说，“我不知道我们要如何制作这部电影。”在拍摄的第一周，他们就已经开始讨论下一部影片了。
They became so confident because their idea of what impossible is drops really quick when you take it.
他们变得如此自信，因为当你接受它时，他们对不可能的想法很快就会消失。
Yeah, anyone interested in unlocking their creativities, they’re not even just filmmaking, I highly recommend that show and I highly recommend kind of the follow-on show, which is where you make Red 11.
是的，任何有兴趣释放自己创造力的人，他们甚至不仅仅是电影制作，我强烈推荐这个节目，我强烈推荐后续节目，这就是你制作《红色11》的地方。
So that’s the one I did.
这就是我所做的。
1:19:07 So then it came time for me to do one.
那么我就该做一件事了。
So I made a movie called Red 11 based on my experiences in the medical hospital, but I’ll turn it into a sci-fi thriller just to use that so that I can use somebody getting stabbed in the eye.
所以我根据我在医院的经历制作了一部叫做《红色11》的电影，但我会把它变成一部科幻惊悚片，只是为了利用它，这样我就可以利用眼睛被刺伤的人。
So I’m still going to have more elements to show how you can do camera tricks and stuff with no money.
所以我仍然会有更多的元素来展示如何在没有钱的情况下完成相机技巧和其他东西。
And the old days make it for less than $7,000, which I think were like $5,000 mainly because I had a lot of actors I wanted to pay, but the movie itself can make it for nothing.
过去的成本不到 7,000 美元，我认为大约是 5,000 美元，主要是因为我有很多我想付钱的演员，但电影本身可以不花钱。
1:19:35 But I brought my son aboard as my number one who hadn’t been working with me in a while.
但我把我的儿子带上了公司，作为我的第一号人物，他已经有一段时间没有和我一起工作了。
He wrote Sharkboy and Lavagirl when he was seven, but then he hadn’t really been working on my crew, so he didn’t know how to operate the sound equipment, the separate sound system and all that.
他七岁时写了《Sharkboy》和《Lavagirl》，但那时他并没有真正在我的团队中工作，所以他不知道如何操作音响设备、独立的音响系统等等。
I didn’t show him until the day of filming because I knew we’re documenting it would make a better tutorial.
直到拍摄那天我才给他看，因为我知道我们正在记录它会成为更好的教程。
So by getting them working on the movies together, they came to me super excited.
因此，通过让他们一起制作电影，他们来找我时非常兴奋。
By the end of the day I thought for sure, oh, they’re going to hate this even though it’s only two weeks.
到那天结束时，我确信，哦，他们会讨厌这个，即使只有两周。
They’ve got other interests.
他们还有其他兴趣。
They don’t want to be filmmakers.
他们不想成为电影制片人。
I thought they were going to be like, “All right, I’m out of here,” after one day.
我以为一天后他们会说，“好吧，我要离开这里了”。
1:20:08 But instead he came to me and his brother who acted in it and he went, “Dad, the actor didn’t show up after the first day.
但他却来找我和他的扮演者兄弟，他说：“爸爸，演员第一天之后就没有出现。
The location didn’t match the script at all.
地点与剧本根本不符。
We asked you how we were going to solve the problems and you’re like, ‘I don’t know, figure it out.'” We thought Dad’s stumped for once, is he stumped finally?
我们问你如何解决这些问题，你说，‘我不知道，想办法吧。’”我们以为爸爸曾经被难住了，他终于被难住了吗？
But then by the end of the day, his eyes were all wide.
但到了那天结束时，他的眼睛都睁大了。
We figured it out.
我们想通了。
They went, oh, they don’t realize this is the creative process.
他们说，哦，他们没有意识到这就是创作过程。
Every day is like that.
每天都是这样。
And in life too, every day you don’t know if your machine’s going to not work or you’re going to get a flat tire or you get fired that day.
在生活中也是如此，每天你都不知道你的机器是否会无法工作，或者你是否会爆胎，或者你那天会被解雇。
So life is very unpredictable, just like a movie set.
所以人生就像电影一样，难以预测。
1:20:46 So I realized I’m going to make them all work on my movies now because it’s teaching them about life.
所以我意识到我现在要让他们都在我的电影中工作，因为它教会他们生活。
I’m teaching them very little about the film make, it’s about life lessons, about how you take on something impossible, turn chicken shit to chicken salad and make it work.
我教给他们的关于电影制作的知识很少，而是关于人生的教训，关于如何承担不可能的事情，如何将鸡肉粪便变成鸡肉沙拉并使其发挥作用。
And that’s the strive, that’s life, that’s the process of life.
这就是努力，这就是生活，这就是生活的过程。
So many people say, “Well, I’m not ready to make my projects.” You’re not ready for life either.
很多人说：“好吧，我还没准备好开始我的项目。”你也还没有为生活做好准备。
You’re like this all day, you’re dodging shit that’s going on.
你整天都是这样，你在躲避正在发生的事情。
How come art has to be perfect?
艺术为何一定要完美？
It’s like it should be the same, life and art should be the same.
好像应该是一样的，生活和艺术应该是一样的。
And I think filmmaking in general is full of unpredictable things.
我认为电影制作总体上充满了不可预测的事情。
1:21:16 So many-
这么多——
And its short little microcosm too.
也是它短暂的小缩影。
1:21:22 Within one project you’ve got a whole blueprint for how you’re going to solve life because you’ve just done it on a creative level.
在一个项目中，你已经获得了如何解决生活的完整蓝图，因为你刚刚在创造性的层面上完成了它。
I think of all the art forms of all the art mediums that it just has so many different components.
我认为所有艺术媒介的所有艺术形式都有很多不同的组成部分。
A lot of components to it.
它有很多组件。
And so there’s so many ways to fuck things up, to learn from fuck-ups.
所以有很多方法可以把事情搞砸，从搞砸的事情中学习。
But any of the disciplines, if you add those to it, I teach my actors to paint in-between takes.
但任何学科，如果你添加这些，我都会教我的演员在镜头之间画画。
1:21:39 We’ll go and I’ll take a picture of them in character.
我们去，我会给他们拍张照片。
I show them a canvas, I show them paint.
我给他们看画布，给他们看颜料。
You don’t need to know how to paint.
你不需要知道如何画画。
This is to show you the brush is going to know where to go, you just got to pick it up.
这是为了向您展示画笔将知道去哪里，您只需拿起它即可。
Pick the colors you want.
选择您想要的颜色。
Doesn’t matter how crazy they are, whatever’s speaking to you, you lay it down.
不管他们有多疯狂，无论对你说什么，你都放下它。
I’ll show you some of the pictures.
我给你看一些照片。
You’re not going to believe the masterworks these actors did in a day.
你不会相信这些演员一天之内就能完成的杰作。
Nice.
不错。
They just start doing it.
他们才刚刚开始这样做。
1:22:05 Lady Gaga had her fingernails in there, Josh Brolin’s doing his thing.
Lady Gaga 的指甲留在那里，乔什·布洛林 (Josh Brolin) 则在做他的事。
Then I take a picture of them in character, do a line drawing of it, we project it on top, and mostly it’s the painting coming through, their line drawing with a little bit of their eyes painted in.
然后我给他们拍一张人物照片，画一张线条图，我们把它投影在上面，大部分都是绘画出来的，他们的线条画上有一点眼睛。
You’re not going to believe these things.
你不会相信这些事情。
They couldn’t believe it, but it teaches them that thing about that the creativity is going to come through.
他们不敢相信，但它告诉他们创造力将会实现。
1:22:24 So even though they’re already acting, they’re already being creative, we’re already making a movie.
因此，即使他们已经在表演，他们已经在发挥创造力，我们已经在拍电影了。
Like you said, that’s already a really great creative endeavor.
就像你说的，这已经是一项非常伟大的创造性努力。
When we would sneak off and paint, you could tell it’s firing a whole other part of their brain.
当我们偷偷地画画时，你可以看出它正在激发他们大脑的另一部分。
It was funny, I think Josh Brolin’s girlfriend said, Josh said, “Hey, my girlfriend just said,” she said, his wife now, but at the time, “Are you guys doing drugs?
这很有趣，我想乔什·布洛林的女朋友说，乔什说，“嘿，我女朋友刚才说，”她说，现在是他的妻子，但当时，“你们吸毒吗？
You leave the set and you come back and you’re all excited.” and I go, “No, we’re painting.
当你离开片场然后回来的时候，你都会很兴奋。”我说：“不，我们在画画。
We’re painting.
我们正在画画。
But that makes sense that you say that because when you get your creativity firing, it’s more powerful than any drug.” And we would come back and he’d be on the set going, “Is it bad that I’m still thinking about the painting?” And I’m like, “No, I think it’s good.
但你这么说是有道理的，因为当你激发你的创造力时，它比任何药物都更有效。”当我们回来时，他会在片场说：“我还在想这幅画是不是很糟糕？”我想，“不，我认为这很好。
I think it’s all good.” But you can tell it’s opening a whole other part of their creative brain.
我认为这一切都很好。”但你可以看出它正在打开他们创造性大脑的另一个部分。
1:23:10 So you can be doing acting in a movie and the painting’s still going to tap, it shows how much untapped potential your creative brain has.
所以你可以在电影中表演，而绘画仍然可以挖掘，它显示了你的创造性大脑还有多少未开发的潜力。
So the more you can do, the more you’re firing off.
所以你能做的越多，你发射的就越多。
And it was so cool.
太酷了。
I remember we did one with Joseph Gordon-Levitt was painting.
我记得我们和约瑟夫·高登-莱维特一起画过一幅作品。
We came in and the table was like this and they said, we have a problem.
我们进来，桌子是这样的，他们说，我们有问题。
You want him to throw the cards out, the playing cards out, but it’s so slick they go sliding off the table and we both look at it and we both got the solution at the same time.
你想让他把牌扔出去，把扑克牌扔出去，但它太光滑了，它们从桌子上滑下来，我们都看着它，我们同时得到了解决方案。
Oh, just have them throw them, wherever they go and then we’ll place them.
哦，让他们把它们扔到任何地方，然后我们就把它们安置好。
And then digitally, it’s even better that he looks like he gets them all perfectly laid out to show what a card shark he is.
从数字上看，更好的是他看起来把它们都完美地排列起来，以显示他是一个多么厉害的牌手。
1:23:50 But that’s what we have to do because we not going to, we’ll be here all day if we’re trying to get, if we’re going to worry about where they go, just go bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, and then we’ll place the cards down and everyone will pick them up and then we’ll marry the two in post.
但这就是我们必须做的，因为我们不会这样做，如果我们想得到，如果我们要担心它们去了哪里，我们会整天待在这里，只是去碰撞，碰撞，碰撞，碰撞，碰撞，碰撞，碰撞，然后我们将卡片放下，每个人都会拿起它们，然后我们将在后期将两者结合起来。
You just come up with creative solutions better, easier because you were just solving crazy creative solutions in the other one, what paint medium do I use?
你只是想出了更好、更容易的创意解决方案，因为你只是在另一个方案中解决疯狂的创意解决方案，我该使用什么绘画介质？
What kind of gel am I going to use?
我要使用哪种凝胶？
So when you come back to your main job, which is filmmaking, you’re like, “Oh, I can figure this out in two seconds.” So it helps you creative problem solve.
所以当你回到你的主要工作，即电影制作时，你会想，“哦，我可以在两秒钟内弄清楚这一点。”所以它可以帮助你创造性地解决问题。
1:24:21 So that’s basically working with my kids made me realize, oh, now I know exactly what I want to do for the next 10 years.
所以基本上与我的孩子们一起工作让我意识到，哦，现在我确切地知道未来 10 年我想做什么。
I only want to make movies with my kids because I’m mentoring them, but they’re teaching me shit the age I was when I made Mariachi and Desperado.
我只想和我的孩子们一起拍电影，因为我在指导他们，但他们却在我拍《流浪乐队》和《亡命之徒》时的年纪教我这些东西。
And their ideas are really sharp.
而且他们的想法真的很敏锐。
So the mentoring goes both ways and it’s like the greatest parenting you can do because you’re building a project together and in the same boat together, figuring it out and it’s family time.
因此，指导是双向的，这就像你能做的最好的育儿，因为你正在同舟共济地共同构建一个项目，弄清楚它，这是家庭时间。
You’re like checking all the boxes.
你就像勾选了所有的方框。
1:24:47 So I thought my filmmaking going forward is going to be checking all the boxes in life.
所以我认为我未来的电影制作将检查生活中的所有条件。
So I’m not not spending time with my family.
所以我并不是不花时间和家人在一起。
We’re actually giving them lessons that they can go do, anything they want in life because they’re going to have different interests.
我们实际上是在给他们上课，让他们可以去做他们生活中想做的任何事情，因为他们会有不同的兴趣。
But now it’s kind of like going to college and this college is like the best college because it pays you to learn, you get to do these crazy skills.
但现在有点像上大学，这所大学就像是最好的大学，因为它支付你学习的费用，你可以掌握这些疯狂的技能。
My son is conducting the orchestra, the James Bond Orchestra in London for the Spy Kid score, the score he wrote, because I can’t write at his level because he was always our best piano player.
我儿子正在指挥伦敦的詹姆斯·邦德管弦乐团，为《间谍小子》配乐，他写的配乐，因为我无法达到他的水平，因为他一直是我们最好的钢琴演奏家。
And you get the charge out of working with him.
和他一起工作你就可以得到好处。
1:25:22 And then by making a label, there’s this weird phenomenon that happens if you guys want to take your game to another level, I stumbled upon this idea.
然后通过制作标签，如果你们想将游戏提升到另一个水平，就会发生这种奇怪的现象，我偶然发现了这个想法。
My son, that was my counterpart on that movie, Racer, he was my sound guy, like I said, came up with Sharkboy and Lavagirl when he was little, he became my writer, co-writer, co-producer, he had come to me and said, “I want to do VR type movie.” And I said, “Oh, well let me show you,” as an example of creativity and manifest, I said, “Let me show you how it works.
我的儿子，那是我在那部电影《Racer》中的对手，他是我的音响师，就像我说的，他小时候想出了《Sharkboy》和《Lavagirl》，他成为了我的编剧、联合编剧、联合制片人，他来找我说，“我想做 VR 类型的电影。”我说，“哦，让我向你展示一下，”作为创造力和表现力的一个例子，我说，“让我向你展示它是如何运作的。
Let’s make a company.
让我们成立一家公司吧。
We’ll make a company called Double R, Double R Productions.” Because we all have double R names, all the kids.
我们将成立一家名为 Double R，Double R Productions 的公司。”因为我们所有的孩子都有双 R 名字。
So if anyone ever wants to do anything, we can use our company.
因此，如果有人想做任何事情，我们可以使用我们的公司。
1:26:04 So let’s make a logo and I’ll make t-shirts and notepads and stuff because once you have a company, you now have to make things for that company.
所以让我们制作一个徽标，我将制作 T 恤和记事本之类的东西，因为一旦你拥有一家公司，你现在必须为该公司制作东西。
Just like the advice I gave to people, stop aspiring, make a business card that says writer, director, cinematographer, I did, editor, because then now you have to conform to that identity.
就像我给人们的建议一样，停止雄心勃勃，制作一张名片，上面写着作家、导演、电影摄影师，我做了，编辑，因为现在你必须符合这个身份。
So now if I create a label like Double R, we’re going to come up with ideas.
所以现在如果我创建一个像 Double R 这样的标签，我们就会想出一些想法。
We’ll call up VR companies and say, “Hey, we have company, a VR company.
我们会打电话给 VR 公司并说：“嘿，我们有公司，一家 VR 公司。
Would you like us to make you a film for you to sell your headsets?” So yeah, they gave us a budget.
您希望我们为您制作一部电影来出售您的耳机吗？”是的，他们给了我们预算。
They’re dying for content.
他们非常渴望内容。
They gave us a budget.
他们给了我们一个预算。
We shot a 20-minute action movie we call The Limit with Michelle Rodriguez and Norman Reedus where you’re in an action movie with them.
我们与米歇尔·罗德里格兹和诺曼·瑞杜斯一起拍摄了一部 20 分钟的动作片，称为《极限》，您将与他们一起出演动作片。
And it was killer.
这是杀手。
They made us a big Double R logo, animated logo.
他们为我们制作了一个大的双 R 标志，动画标志。
1:26:48 Later that year we did Red 11, same logo.
那年晚些时候，我们制作了 Red 11，同样的标志。
That movie went to Directors’ Fortnight and Cannes.
That movie went to Directors’ Fortnight and Cannes.
Festivals were paying us to come talk about how we made that movie.
Festivals were paying us to come talk about how we made that movie.
That’s when we’re doing the cards, throwing the cards out, because they wanted their audiences, they knew they would love that.
那是我们制作卡片、扔掉卡片的时候，因为他们想要他们的观众，他们知道他们会喜欢这样。
So we could have had a whole gig just continuing to get paid to go to the Fed.
因此，我们本来可以做一份完整的工作，只是继续领取工资去美联储。
Usually you pay to Feds, go to the Feds, you don’t get paid.
通常你向美联储付款，去美联储，你却得不到报酬。
That’s what a success that was.
这就是成功。
But then we had to make We Can Be Heroes.
但后来我们必须制作《我们可以成为英雄》。
So we had to stop, but We Can Be Heroes was a Netflix movie where they asked me to make a Spy Kids type thing.
So we had to stop, but We Can Be Heroes was a Netflix movie where they asked me to make a Spy Kids type thing.
And so I thought, oh, okay, I’ll just do it with superheroes, that’s there I wrote it with my kids, based it on some of their personalities.
And so I thought, oh, okay, I’ll just do it with superheroes, that’s there I wrote it with my kids, based it on some of their personalities.
It’s the most watched and rewatched movie in Netflix history.
这是 Netflix 历史上观看次数和重温次数最多的电影。
1:27:33 Like nothing can touch it because kids just keep watching it over because it’s kids with superpowers, no one’s ever done that before and they couldn’t believe it.
就像没有什么可以碰它一样，因为孩子们只是一直看着它，因为这是具有超能力的孩子，以前没有人这样做过，他们简直不敢相信。
I’d heard anecdotally that’s how the Spy Kids where people said, “Oh, that kid’s watching over and over on video.” But you can’t keep track of that.
I’d heard anecdotally that’s how the Spy Kids where people said, “Oh, that kid’s watching over and over on video.”但你无法跟踪这一点。
You can on Netflix because their thing is people completing a movie, a lot of people don’t complete a movie and it still counts as a view.
你可以在 Netflix 上观看，因为他们的任务是让人们完成一部电影，很多人没有完成一部电影，但它仍然算作一次观看。
They may watch five minutes and change the channel.
They may watch five minutes and change the channel.
So do you complete a movie?
那么你完成了一部电影吗？
That’s really where they really value.
这才是他们真正看重的地方。
Not only do they complete, but re-watch, re-watch, re-watch per household so many times and nothing can touch it.
他们不仅完成了，而且每个家庭都重新观看、重新观看、重新观看很多次，没有什么可以触及它。
Wow.
哇。
That one has a double R logo as well.
那个也有双 R 标志。
1:28:05 And my kids are like, “Dad, that really worked.” I was like, “I know better than I thought.” I didn’t know that me manifesting that company was going to turn into that and we just keep making stuff.
And my kids are like, “Dad, that really worked.”我当时想，“我比我想象的更了解。” I didn’t know that me manifesting that company was going to turn into that and we just keep making stuff.
So I want to do that with Brass Knuckle films now with the audience because it works.
So I want to do that with Brass Knuckle films now with the audience because it works.
So I said, as soon as you have a logo and a company, your brain starts coming up with all kinds of ideas and it’s a filter.
So I said, as soon as you have a logo and a company, your brain starts coming up with all kinds of ideas and it’s a filter.
Like I said, sometimes the freedom of limitations is all freeing.
Like I said, sometimes the freedom of limitations is all freeing.
When I had to do Four Rooms and it’s like we have to use one hotel room, oh well then there’s going to be a dead body, there’s going to be this, you can do a lot with limitations.
当我必须做《四个房间》时，就像我们必须使用一间酒店房间，哦，好吧，然后就会有一具尸体，就会有这个，你可以在限制下做很多事情。
If they said you could use the whole city, it would’ve been harder to come up with something.
If they said you could use the whole city, it would’ve been harder to come up with something.
Brass Knuckle Films has a filter, only action, action movies because that’s the stuff that there’s always an appetite for.
Brass Knuckle Films has a filter, only action, action movies because that’s the stuff that there’s always an appetite for.
1:28:55 If you ask Netflix right now, what do you need more of?
如果你现在问 Netflix，你还需要什么？
They’ll say, “Action, action, action.
他们会说：“行动，行动，行动。
We don’t have enough action.
我们没有足够的行动。
The last regime didn’t leave us enough action.
上一个政权没有给我们留下足够的行动空间。
We need action.” They’ll pay a premium for an action film that we can make at a lower cost.
我们需要采取行动。” They’ll pay a premium for an action film that we can make at a lower cost.
A $20 million action film is very cheap.
一部2000万美元的动作片非常便宜。
Studios don’t know how to make them that cheap.
工作室不知道如何让它们如此便宜。
That’s why they’ll pay for an independent to go do it.
这就是为什么他们会花钱聘请独立人士来做这件事。
And right now that’s the key is to be independent because a lot of studios that can’t even green light anything because things are so expensive they don’t want to lose their ass, but they need action films.
现在关键是要独立，因为很多制片厂甚至不能批准任何事情，因为东西太贵了，他们不想失去自己的屁股，但他们需要动作片。
So let’s make something that everybody needs and let’s make it at a price and we’ll make it in my studio because I got my own studio and I can keep all the costs down because we have all the costumes and props and sets from 25 years of filmmaking to keep the cost down and we’ll have the audience gets to invest.
因此，让我们制作一些每个人都需要的东西，让我们以一定的价格制作它，我们将在我的工作室制作，因为我有自己的工作室，我可以降低所有成本，因为我们拥有 25 年电影制作中的所有服装、道具和布景，以降低成本，而且我们会让观众投资。
It’s not crowdfunding or Kickstarter, you are actually an investor.
It’s not crowdfunding or Kickstarter, you are actually an investor.
1:29:43 Anyone who puts money in can pitch their idea for an action film to me.
任何投入资金的人都可以向我提出他们拍摄动作片的想法。
And I’m going to make one of the four films in that slate from one of those ideas because I want the audience to win.
我将根据这些想法之一制作该名单中的四部电影之一，因为我希望观众获胜。
I want the audience to win and be a part of it because the audience is an afterthought in Hollywood.
我希望观众能够获胜并成为其中的一部分，因为在好莱坞，观众是事后才想到的。
They make a movie, they show the audience the movie, “Go tell your friends now so you all spend money on our movie.” Well where’s your cut of that?
They make a movie, they show the audience the movie, “Go tell your friends now so you all spend money on our movie.”那么你的部分在哪里呢？
So I want them to be successful.
所以我希望他们成功。
So if any of the movies in the slate do well, they make money off that one and then sequels or anything.
因此，如果名单中的任何一部电影表现出色，他们就会从该电影中赚钱，然后再制作续集或其他任何东西。
But they’re all going to do well because everyone needs an action movie or we’re going to keep the cost down.
但它们都会做得很好，因为每个人都需要一部动作片，否则我们就会降低成本。
Can I actually ask you just to focus in on action, you’ve created a lot of epic action films, what makes for a great action film?
我真的可以请你专注于动作片吗？你创作了很多史诗般的动作片，什么才是一部伟大的动作片？
It comes down to the character.
这取决于性格。
1:30:26 If you think about what are the best action films, what are your favorite films?
如果您想一下最好的动作片是什么，您最喜欢的电影是什么？
Die Hard, he’s a cop so he’s still capable, but he’s not Superman.
虎胆龙威，他是一名警察，所以他仍然有能力，但他不是超人。
The fact that he’s in over his head and you’re rooting for him, that’s a great character.
事实上，他已经无法承受，而你却为他加油，这是一个伟大的角色。
John Wick, he is Superman, but he’s retired and now he’s pissed off and he’s going back into a job.
约翰威克，他是超人，但他已经退休了，现在他很生气，他要重新开始工作。
So it comes down to the character really being very important because the action will then have a character to it.
所以归根结底，角色确实非常重要，因为动作就会有角色。
I think Leon: The Professional.
我认为莱昂：专业人士。
That’s a character.
那是一个角色。
I mean that’s all about character.
我的意思是这都是关于性格的。
I mean that’s all character.
我的意思是这就是全部性格。
1:31:01 Now that, when I say we’re going to do action movies, I mean movies that are really action first.
现在，当我说我们要拍动作片时，我指的是真正以动作为先的电影。
There’s some movies that are more dramas that have action.
有些电影更像是动作戏。
Where’s the boundary?
边界在哪里？
1:31:08 So John Wick is action.
所以《疾速追杀》就是行动。
That’s more action, but it has character in it, but it’s action driven.
这是更多的行动，但它有个性，但它是行动驱动的。
What about Predator?
掠食者呢？
Predator is a sci-fi action film.
《铁血战士》是一部科幻动作片。
1:31:16 So that’s kind of a hybrid, which I like but sometimes it’s hard for the audience to know what they’re buying into.
所以这是一种混合体，我喜欢，但有时观众很难知道他们在买什么。
Got it.
明白了。
They focused a lot on the action in the trailer and then they felt there was some other worldly thing, but you didn’t really know.
他们非常关注预告片中的动作，然后他们觉得还有一些其他世俗的东西，但你并不真正知道。
1:31:24 But it’s a great movie.
但这是一部很棒的电影。
So Die Hard is a good example.
所以《虎胆龙威》就是一个很好的例子。
It was a good example I can think of right off where there’s a character that really made the difference and then everyone repeated that for a while.
这是一个很好的例子，我立刻就能想到，其中有一个角色真正发挥了作用，然后每个人都重复了一段时间。
1:31:32 It was Under Siege, I was like a regular guy who’s really actually has some training on a ship now and then on the bus you’ve got a cop, he’s a cop, but he’s not super cop.
那是《围攻之下》，我就像一个普通人，实际上在船上接受过一些训练，然后在公共汽车上你有一个警察，他是一个警察，但他不是超级警察。
So that’s why you root for him.
所以这就是你支持他的原因。
That became an element that people repeated a lot.
这成为人们经常重复的一个元素。
What about Taken?
采取的呢？
That’s a great one.
这是一件很棒的事情。
1:31:53 That’s a great character who is superhuman, who’s also retired.
这是一个伟大的人物，他是超人，也已经退休了。
There’s like a superhero type character in an extraordinary circumstance, now his daughter’s taken, right?
就像一个超级英雄类型的角色在一个特殊的情况下，现在他的女儿被带走了，对吗？
And then there’s ordinary people like the Terminator, that’s a great character, not the Terminator, he is a villain.
还有像终结者这样的普通人，那是一个伟大的角色，不是终结者，他是一个恶棍。
But Sarah Connor, who is a waitress, doesn’t think her life’s going anywhere and she finds out she’s the mother of the guy who’s going to save the human race and she’s got to train him.
但女服务员莎拉·康纳并不认为自己的生活有任何进展，她发现自己是拯救人类的人的母亲，她必须训练他。
Suddenly she has to become someone else.
突然间，她必须变成另一个人。
Those are cool movies because it’s a genesis of a character and you see a character go from waitress to revolutionary.
这些都是很酷的电影，因为它是一个角色的起源，你会看到一个角色从女服务员变成革命者。
They step up.
他们挺身而出。
1:32:30 Yeah.
是的。
What about mob movies?
黑帮电影呢？
I mean some of them are like Godfather is really not about, it’s not action-
我的意思是他们中的一些人就像《教父》实际上不是关于，这不是动作——
Not an action movie, drama that has some action in it.
不是动作片，而是有动作的戏剧。
I mean John Wick is a mob film in some sense.
我的意思是《疾速追杀》在某种意义上是一部黑帮电影。
1:32:38 Goodfellas, I mean there’s a lot of dynamic action, but there’s really not action first.
好家伙，我的意思是有很多动态的动作，但实际上并不是先有动作。
That’s really a character type piece.
这确实是一部人物类型的作品。
1:32:45 Great, freaking amazing.
太棒了，太神奇了。
And it feels like action by the way he does it, it’s just like that.
他的做法感觉就像是在采取行动，就是这样。
It’s like fast pace, fast talk and fast moving.
就像快节奏、快说话和快移动一样。
Like Escape from New York’s one of my favorites since I was a kid because every movie, you’ll notice this now that I tell you, even a romantic comedy, there’s a timeline.
就像《逃离纽约》是我小时候最喜欢的电影之一，因为每部电影，你都会注意到这一点，现在我告诉你，即使是一部浪漫喜剧，都有一个时间表。
Every movie has to have a ticking clock.
每部电影都必须有一个滴答作响的时钟。
So the audience knows this story’s not just going to take over a period of years though.
所以观众知道这个故事不会持续数年。
Suddenly someone in the movie around 20 or 30 minutes in will say, “We’ve got to go find the groom before the wedding this weekend.” It’ll be just like that.
突然，电影中大约 20 或 30 分钟时有人会说：“我们必须在这个周末的婚礼之前去找新郎。”就这样吧。
1:33:20 Escape from New York has the best example of a ticking time clock because he’s literally got bombs in his neck and he’s got a watch that shows him, he’s constantly clocking it, how little time he has and he gets you so like, oh my God, is he going to make it?
《逃离纽约》有一个滴答作响的时钟的最好例子，因为他脖子上确实有炸弹，他有一块手表，可以显示他，他不断地计时，他的时间是多么少，他让你如此想，天哪，他能成功吗？
That’s the best use of that.
这就是它的最佳用途。
And no one’s ever topped that ticking time clock.
没有人能超越那个滴答作响的时钟。
All the other ones seem artificial in comparison.
相比之下，所有其他的都显得人造。
Aliens, we got to get off this planet now because this whole thing’s going to blow up.
外星人，我们现在必须离开这个星球，因为这一切都会爆炸。
There’s a timeline, it’s already urgent, but now there’s an extra timeline on it.
有一个时间表，本来就很紧急，但现在又多了一个时间表。
This is what happens.
这就是发生的事情。
As you’re talking, you’re just making me fall in love more and more with action films.
正如你所说，你只是让我越来越爱上动作片。
1:33:55 Sometimes you forget how much you love action films.
有时你会忘记自己有多喜欢动作片。
A really good action film.
一部非常好的动作片。
Yeah.
是的。
In fact, like The Terminator, oh my God, the original Terminator just came out in four cam and I’ve been watching it again.
事实上，就像《终结者》一样，天哪，原版《终结者》刚刚以四镜头形式上映，我又看了一遍。
1:34:04 It looks like better than most movies look today, and that’s a $4 million movie.
它看起来比今天大多数电影都要好，而且这是一部价值 400 万美元的电影。
It looks incredible.
看起来不可思议。
You can see every bead of sweat in this movie.
你可以看到这部电影中的每一滴汗珠。
I was watching it again with somebody, a female and there’s always a point when you’re watching that movie where she’ll turn and say, “I love this movie.” A point that is, it’s a point where Michael Biehn tells her, ” I came across time for you, Sarah.
我和某人（一位女性）又看了一遍，当你看那部电影时，总会有一个时刻，她会转身说：“我喜欢这部电影。”也就是说，迈克尔·比恩告诉她，“我为你找到了时间，莎拉。
I love you, I always have.” And you’re just like, oh my God.
我爱你，一直都是。”你就像，天哪。
There’s like a real emotional love story there that he put into Titanic, that he put into Avatar, he figured out that thing that makes those movies work.
他把一个真实的情感爱情故事放进了《泰坦尼克号》和《阿凡达》中，他找到了让这些电影成功的秘诀。
By the way, I should say that, I mean there is an aspect of El Mariachi that is the love story to me.
顺便说一句，我应该说，我的意思是 El Mariachi 的一个方面对我来说就是爱情故事。
Yeah, there was a love story.
是的，有一个爱情故事。
I don’t know if you see it that way, but when I just rewatched it, I was like a-
我不知道你是否这么看，但当我重看时，我就像一个——
A tragic love story.
一个悲惨的爱情故事。
But I was heartbroken that she’s dead.
但她死了我很伤心。
I got heartbroken twice.
我两次都心碎了。
1:35:01 Let me tell you the second time it happened, one that you’re making that and you go, okay, this is how it has to go.
让我告诉你第二次发生这种情况时，你正在做那件事，然后你就走了，好吧，事情就是这样发生的。
But then now you’re invested in this person, you go, “Oh man, she has to die.
但现在你对这个人投入了，你会说：“天哪，她必须死。
It’s going to be really sad.” In fact, the studio, even when they said they were going to remake it, good thing I put that ending on, that’s the only reason they showed it to an audience.
真的会很难过。”事实上，工作室，即使他们说他们要重拍它，好在我把这个结局放在了一起，这是他们向观众展示它的唯一原因。
We’re going to remake it, they weren’t going to put that movie out.
我们要重拍它，他们不会把那部电影上映。
They showed it, they said, “We need to show this movie to an audience because they might not like the fact that we killed a girl before we remake it.” All right.
他们展示了它，他们说，“我们需要向观众展示这部电影，因为他们可能不喜欢我们在重拍之前杀死一个女孩的事实。”好吧。
They showed it to an audience.
他们向观众展示了它。
The audience liked it the way it was.
观众喜欢它原来的样子。
So they said, “We’re going to take this movie to some film festivals.” And I was like, “No, not this movie.
所以他们说，“我们要把这部电影带到一些电影节上。”我当时想，“不，不是这部电影。
This is my practice movie.
这是我的练习电影。
No one’s supposed to see this movie.” And they go, “No, no, you got something.”
没有人应该看这部电影。”他们说：“不，不，你得到了一些东西。”
1:35:42 “No, no, dude, if I knew anyone was going to see this, I would’ve shot it completely different.
“不，不，伙计，如果我知道有人会看到这个，我会用完全不同的方式拍摄它。
Give me $2,000.
给我 2,000 美元。
I’ll go reshoot half of it,” just knowing people are going to see it I want something.
我会重新拍摄一半，”只要知道人们会看到它，我就想要一些东西。
And the head of the studio is really smart.
而且工作室的负责人真的很聪明。
He said, “You don’t know what you have here.
他说：“你不知道你这里有什么。
It’s something really special.
这真的很特别。
Let’s just take it and tell you what happened.” Tell you what?
我们就拿它来说吧，告诉你发生了什么事。”告诉你什么？
Toronto did great, like I said, it won Sundance.
多伦多表现出色，就像我说的，它赢得了圣丹斯电影节。
So now we had to put it out, but I was like, I would’ve said, “Don’t show that movie.” But they also questioned the ending and didn’t come into play because we ended up making Desperado.
所以现在我们必须把它放出来，但我想，我会说，“不要放映那部电影。”但他们也对结局提出质疑，并没有参与其中，因为我们最终拍出了《亡命之徒》。
The girl in Desperado doesn’t die.
《亡命之徒》中的女孩没有死。
We didn’t do that.
我们没有那样做。
We didn’t kill Salma, but that’s what needed to happen in El Mariachi.
我们没有杀死萨尔玛，但这正是 El Mariachi 需要发生的事情。
1:36:16 Quentin called me one time.
有一次昆汀给我打电话。
People would always say like, “Oh, Reservoir Dogs.
人们总是会说，“哦，落水狗。
He borrowed from this movie Hong Kong actually from called City on Fire about these guys they’re all criminals and they kill each other, whatever.” And he said, “Hey, they’re showing a double feature called East Looks West and West looks East.
他借用了香港的电影《烈焰之城》，讲述了这些家伙，他们都是罪犯，他们互相残杀，无论如何。”他说：“嘿，他们正在展示一个双重特征，叫做东看西，西看东。
They’re showing Reservoir Dogs with City On Fire, the one they say I borrowed from.
他们正在放映《落水狗》和《失火的城市》，他们说我借的是那部。
And they’re showing Mariachi with a Hong Kong film called Run where they ripped off Mariachi.” They just took the whole story.
他们正在向墨西哥流浪乐队放映一部名为《奔跑吧》的香港电影，他们抄袭了墨西哥流浪乐队。”他们只是掌握了整个故事。
It had two Chinese actors in Mexico with guitar cases.
片中有两名带着吉他箱在墨西哥的中国演员。
Ones, they just followed it beat by beat.
他们只是跟着节奏跟着节奏。
1:36:49 So we’re watching it and it was like scene by scene.
所以我们正在观看它，就像一个场景接着一个场景。
They just remade it without even getting the rights or anything.
他们只是重拍了它，甚至没有获得版权或任何东西。
It was so fun to watch.
观看起来非常有趣。
So we saw Mariachi first, then we watched that one and I’m like, “What’s this big brothel scene though?
所以我们先看到了流浪乐队，然后我们看了那个，我想，“这个大妓院场景是什么？
This isn’t my movie.” Oh, the bad guy, oh, there’s a scene in my movie where the bad guy has two girls in bed with him and they figured that was a whorehouse, but it was just this apartment.
这不是我的电影。”哦，坏人，哦，我的电影中有一个场景，坏人有两个女孩和他在床上，他们认为那是一个妓院，但那只是这间公寓。
So they got this whorehouse, they reinterpreted it and they have helicopter shots and all kinds of big thing.
所以他们得到了这个妓院，他们重新诠释了它，他们有直升机镜头和各种大的东西。
And the action was awesome.
而且动作太棒了。
But then the girl’s really good.
不过话说回来，这个女孩子确实不错。
And then midway through the movie I’m like, “Oh shit, she’s going to die because I killed her in mine.
然后在电影进行到一半时，我就想，“哦，妈的，她会死，因为我杀了她。
I don’t want her to die.
我不想让她死。
I like this actress.
我喜欢这个女演员。
It’s really great.
真的很棒。
And they have a really great love story.” I go, “Well, I hope they changed that part.” No, they kill her.
他们有一个非常伟大的爱情故事。”我说：“好吧，我希望他们改变了那部分。”不，他们杀了她。
So I felt bad twice because I sealed her fate.
所以我两次感到难过，因为我决定了她的命运。
I sealed her fate, because…
我决定了她的命运，因为……
Yeah.
是的。
I have a line in Spy Kids 2 because I started thinking when you create stuff, you start thinking, I wonder if that’s how our creator is.
我在《小间谍 2》中有一句台词，因为当你创造东西时，我开始思考，你开始思考，我想知道我们的创造者是否就是这样。
1:37:39 He’s like, oh shit, I just kind of threw that in a memo and now that whole town’s going to get wiped out.
他就像，哦，该死，我只是把它扔进了一份备忘录，现在整个城镇都会被消灭。
I didn’t even think about the implications of that because there’s a line I was making a character that Steve Buscemi plays in Spy Kids 2 and he’s a creator.
我什至没有考虑过这其中的含义，因为我正在制作《小特工 2》中史蒂夫·布西密扮演的角色，而他是一名创作者。
He just wanted to make a little miniature zoo for kids.
他只是想为孩子们建造一个小型动物园。
1:38:07 And then he thought, well, what if I put some together like a lizard with a snake and it’s a slizard, or you have a spider monkey, which is literally spider legs and a monkey top.
然后他想，好吧，如果我把一些东西放在一起，就像蜥蜴和蛇一样，那就是蜥蜴，或者你有一只蜘蛛猴，它实际上是蜘蛛腿和猴子顶部。
So he makes that, and then he thought, hey, why don’t I make them a little bit bigger for kids that have big hands?
所以他做了这个，然后他想，嘿，为什么我不为手大的孩子做大一点呢？
And it got out of control and they turn into these huge creatures and now they’re trying to eat them.
它失去了控制，它们变成了这些巨大的生物，现在它们正试图吃掉它们。
So he’s hiding.
所以他躲起来了。
And the kids find him hiding and he says this one line that people keep coming, it’s on the internet a lot.
孩子们发现他藏起来了，他说这句话人们不断地来，在互联网上经常出现。
This meme about this, “Why is this line in this movie?” It’s so wild.
这个梗是关于这个的，“为什么这部电影里有这句台词？”太狂野了。
I thought I wanted Steve to come up to the camera and he’s lost in his own creative world.
我以为我想让史蒂夫走到镜头前，但他迷失在自己的创意世界中。
1:38:47 And he says, “I can’t even go outside because my own creations are going to eat me.” And he comes up to the camera, he goes, “Do you think God hides in heaven because he too lives in fear of what he created here on Earth?” it’s really just for a moment, this thing.
他说：“我什至不能出去，因为我自己的创造物会吃掉我。”他走到镜头前，说道：“你认为上帝隐藏在天堂是因为他也生活在对他在地球上创造的事物的恐惧之中吗？”这件事真的只是一瞬间。
And it’s like, because you feel like that way when you’re creating stuff, you’re creating something and then now it’s taking all life on its own.
就像，因为当你创造东西时，你会有这样的感觉，你正在创造一些东西，然后现在它正在独自夺走所有的生命。
And it’s like, oh no, now this character has to die.
就像，哦不，现在这个角色必须死。
I didn’t want that.
我不想那样。
This domino effect of creation.
这种创造的多米诺骨牌效应。
And you start thinking, well, this must be what creation, maybe he is hiding up there because look, he didn’t expect all this shit to happen, giving us free will and all that.
你开始想，嗯，这一定是创造物，也许他藏在那里，因为看，他没想到所有这些狗屎会发生，给了我们自由意志等等。
I mean this particular context that you are the creator of this story and it for some reason makes me feel good to know that you feel the pain of this character dying.
我的意思是，在这个特定的背景下，你是这个故事的创造者，出于某种原因，当我知道你感受到这个角色死亡的痛苦时，我感觉很高兴。
Yeah, absolutely because if I’m writing it but if it’s not coming from me, I’m as surprised sometimes.
是的，绝对是因为如果是我写的，但如果它不是我写的，有时我也会感到惊讶。
1:39:33 And Quentin would say that.
昆汀也会这么说。
He’d say, “You just get two characters talking when I’m writing my script and then suddenly they’re just talking to each other.” And I was like, “What does that mean?” And now I know what that means.
他会说，“当我写剧本时，你只是让两个角色说话，然后突然他们就开始互相交谈了。”我当时想，“这是什么意思？”现在我知道这意味着什么了。
It’s like he just gave them life and now the dialogue’s coming through him.
就好像他刚刚赋予了他们生命，现在对话是通过他来进行的。
Let me just ask you, you’re the perfect person to ask about the genius of Quentin Tarantino.
让我问你，你是询问昆汀·塔伦蒂诺天才的最佳人选。
1:39:55 What makes him special as a director, as a creative mind, what do you see in him that’s beautiful, that’s brilliant?
是什么让他作为一名导演、作为一个富有创造力的头脑而与众不同，你认为他身上有哪些美丽、才华横溢的地方？
Since I met him, he was just like this brilliant ball of energy.
自从我认识他以来，他就像这个灿烂的能量球。
1:40:08 And if you see him, I walk around his house and I’ll see a few sheets of paper all handwritten out.
如果你看到他，我在他的房子周围走动，我会看到几张手写的纸。
I’m like, “What’s that?” He goes, “Oh, that was something I was starting to write, not going to finish.” I’m like, “Can I take these and go turn it into the whole trilogy of films?” What he throws away, all us mortal men would kill for, you need people like that.
我想，“那是什么？”他说：“哦，那是我正在开始写的东西，不会完成的。”我想，“我可以把这些变成电影三部曲吗？”他扔掉的东西，我们所有凡人都会为之而杀人，你需要这样的人。
1:40:39 I tell people, your parents say, “Watch out who your peers are,” when you’re younger that means one thing but once you get older, surround yourself around people who swing much farther than you.
我告诉人们，你的父母会说，“留意你的同龄人是谁”，当你年轻的时候，这意味着一回事，但一旦你长大了，就让自己周围的人都比你摇摆得更远。
But that’s really true.
但这确实是真的。
I mean, just by being around him and working with him, you get, by osmosis, you learn stuff and it just ups your game because they’re just swing way beyond you.
我的意思是，只要在他身边并与他一起工作，你就会通过潜移默化，学到东西，这只会提高你的游戏水平，因为他们远远超出你的范围。
1:41:05 Jim Cameron was like that.
吉姆·卡梅隆就是这样的人。
So when I first met him, I was trying to impress the hell out of him because I was such a big fan.
所以当我第一次见到他时，我试图给他留下深刻的印象，因为我是他的忠实粉丝。
I was about to go do this Desperado and I went, “Hey, I just took a three-day Steadicam course because I can’t afford a Steadicam operator, so I’m going to operate Steadicam myself on this Desperado.” Now if he was just my peer, he’d say, “Oh, I did the same thing and I’m going to do the same thing.” That would be hanging out with somebody of your ilk, but you want somebody who’s above that.
我正要去做这个《亡命之徒》，我说：“嘿，我刚刚参加了为期三天的斯坦尼康课程，因为我买不起斯坦尼康操作员，所以我要自己在《亡命之徒》上操作斯坦尼康。”现在，如果他只是我的同事，他会说：“哦，我做了同样的事情，我也会做同样的事情。”那会是和你同类的人一起出去玩，但你想要一个比你同类的人。
You know what he said?
你知道他说什么吗？
He goes, “I bought a Steadicam, but not to operate it, I’m going to take it apart, design a better one.” Us mere mortals trying to learn how to operate the camera.
他说：“我买了一个斯坦尼康，但不是为了操作它，我要把它拆开，设计一个更好的。”我们这些凡人试图学习如何操作相机。
He’s designing all new systems.
他正在设计所有新系统。
That’s the guy you want to hang out with, not someone who’s doing what you’re doing.
那是你想一起出去玩的人，而不是正在做你正在做的事情的人。
1:41:45 So surround yourself by those kinds of people.
因此，让自己周围都是这样的人。
And that’s when you learn things like don’t blink.
And that’s when you learn things like don’t blink.
Somebody who’s really swinging for the senses and accomplishing so much.
一个真正追求感官并取得如此多成就的人。
And Quentin was like that.
昆汀就是这样的。
So I met him at the festivals.
于是我在节日里认识了他。
He saw Mariachi, he loved it.
他看到了墨西哥流浪乐队，他很喜欢它。
We came up, we talked, and he said, “You’re going to like my next film I’m writing right now, Pulp Fiction.” So I thought, “Man, I’m going to put this guy, he’s so fun.
我们一起聊了聊，他说：“你会喜欢我现在正在写的下一部电影，《低俗小说》。”所以我想，“伙计，我要把这个人放进去，他太有趣了。
I’m going to put him, I’m going to write him in my Desperado script, which I was writing.” So that was before Pulp Fiction and all that when I had cast him, I didn’t know he was going to go become such a household name.
我要把他放进我正在写的《亡命之徒》剧本中。”那是在《低俗小说》之前，当我选择他时，我并不知道他会成为如此家喻户晓的名字。
I just was drawn to his energy and I’d already written him in.
我只是被他的能量所吸引，我已经把他写进去了。
And I met Steve Buscemi there, and I was like, “I’m writing a character for Steve Buscemi.”
我在那里遇到了史蒂夫·布西密，我当时想，“我正在为史蒂夫·布西密写一个角色。”
1:42:24 But then I went back to the Sony lot where I was working on Desperado and Quentin and I ended up having offices right next to each other on the Sony lot by accident.
但后来我回到了索尼公司，在那里我正在制作《亡命之徒》和《昆汀》，最后我偶然在索尼公司的工厂里拥有了彼此相邻的办公室。
I didn’t even know that.
我什至不知道这一点。
I just met him.
我刚认识他。
And I go back and he was, because originally Pulp Fiction was for TriStar because Danny DeVito was a producer and he was going to make it for TriStar.
我回去发现他是，因为《低俗小说》最初是为三星制作的，因为丹尼·德维托是制片人，他打算为三星制作。
So he was there writing Pulp Fiction and I was writing Desperado.
所以他在那里写《低俗小说》，而我则在写《亡命之徒》。
So I’d go show him storyboards from Desperado, he’d come act out scenes of Pulp Fiction.
所以我会去给他看《亡命之徒》的故事板，他会表演《低俗小说》的场景。
And we got to be really good friends that way.
这样我们就成为了真正的好朋友。
We’d go eat lunch at Versailles across the street, the Sony lot.
我们会去街对面的凡尔赛宫索尼工厂吃午餐。
1:42:53 And then Sony passed on Pulp Fiction.
然后索尼就放弃了《低俗小说》。
It’s too weird, it’s too long, $ 8 million movie or 7 million, “They’re like, ah, we’re going to go make the next Pauly Shore movie instead.
这太奇怪了，太长了，800 万美元或 700 万美元的电影，“他们就像，啊，我们要去制作下一部保利肖尔电影。
People don’t understand this thing.” And Miramax got it.
人们不明白这件事。”米拉麦克斯做到了。
And they’d just been bought by Disney.
他们刚刚被迪士尼收购。
So they produced, their first film was Pulp Fiction.
所以他们制作了他们的第一部电影是《低俗小说》。
And then that thing went to Cannes and it was a whole thing.
然后那件事去了戛纳，就成了一件事。
1:43:16 But what I loved about his story is that when he made Pulp Fiction, he had a director screening, he showed it to some directors and I wasn’t able to go.
但我喜欢他的故事的是，当他制作《低俗小说》时，他举办了一次导演放映，他向一些导演展示了它，但我没能去。
But anyway, I had dinner with him once, and it was in my journal because I keep a journal, at 2: 40 AM after I dropped him off at his house, I said, “Oh wait, how did your movie come out?” Pulp Fiction, he just finished it and he went, “It’s done.
但无论如何，我和他共进过一次晚餐，这件事记录在我的日记里，因为我记日记，凌晨 2 点 40 分，我把他送到他家后，我说，“哦等等，你的电影拍得怎么样了？” 《低俗小说》，他刚看完，然后说道：“完成了。
It still feels like a movie Quentin would make.
感觉还是像昆汀拍的电影。
It doesn’t feel like a real movie.” And I was like, “That’s fine.
感觉不像一部真正的电影。”我当时想，“那很好。
What do you mean?”
你是什么意思？”
1:43:47 ” It feels like one of those movies I would make, like Reservoir Dogs doesn’t feel like a real movie.” And I was trying to be the supportive friend going, oh man, he was so excited about this movie, now he’s bummed about it.
“感觉就像我会拍的电影之一，《落水狗》感觉不像一部真正的电影。”我试图成为一个支持我的朋友，天哪，他对这部电影非常兴奋，现在他对此感到沮丧。
And I was like, “Well, it should be different.
我当时想，“好吧，应该有所不同。
Should be like…” He’s like, wouldn’t have it, drove off.
应该是这样……”他的反应是，不愿意，就开车走了。
So I thought, oh, I guess that wasn’t the one.
所以我想，哦，我想那不是那个。
So I went home and I called some of the directors that were at the screening and they go, “Yeah, this isn’t the one for him.” None of them saw it.
所以我回到家，给参加放映的一些导演打电话，他们说：“是的，这不适合他。”他们谁也没有看到。
None of them saw it.
他们谁也没有看到。
But I know you’re surprised.
但我知道你很惊讶。
Yeah.
是的。
But that happened with George Lucas too, with Star Wars.
但这也发生在乔治·卢卡斯的《星球大战》身上。
1:44:16 Everybody saw that movie and was like, “Poor George.” They showed it to all his director friends, “Poor George.
每个人都看了那部电影，然后说：“可怜的乔治。”他们把它拿给他所有的导演朋友看，“可怜的乔治。
What did he waste all his time with this for?” Only Spielberg was the one who said, “It’s naive and it’s going to do really good because it’s naive kids will like it,” but everyone else was like, “What’s he doing?
他浪费那么多时间在这件事上干什么？”只有斯皮尔伯格说：“这很天真，而且会做得非常好，因为天真的孩子们会喜欢它，”但其他人都说，“他在做什么？
We’re artists.
我们是艺术家。
We’re making art films.
我们正在制作艺术电影。
What’s he doing this garbage for?” Because nobody knows.
他做这些垃圾干什么？”因为没人知道。
It shows.
它表明。
No one knows anything.
没有人知道任何事情。
Not even the filmmaker.
连电影制片人都没有。
When you’re being groundbreaking, you don’t know what groundbreaking is.
当你具有开创性时，你不知道什么是开创性。
Not you or anyone around you except maybe one or two people.
不是你或你周围的任何人，除了一两个人。
1:44:45 So he said, “There’s one person.” I go, “Oh yeah, who is your Spielberg?” Goes, “Kathryn Bigelow.
于是他说：“有一个人。”我说：“哦，是的，谁是你的斯皮尔伯格？”说道：“凯瑟琳·毕格罗。
Without a doubt she’s the only one who said there’s something here.” No one else was saying that.” He said, “In fact,” because he remembered suddenly, he’d forgotten the story but if it wasn’t in my journal, I would’ve forgot it too.
毫无疑问，她是唯一一个说这里有东西的人。”没有其他人这么说。”他说：“事实上，”因为他突然想起来，他已经忘记了这个故事，但如果它不在我的日记里，我也会忘记的。
He goes, “In fact, one of my friends even said, I want to sit you-“
他说道，“事实上，我的一个朋友甚至说，我想让你坐下——”
1:45:00 …
……
“that, too.
” “那也是。
In fact, one of my friends even said, ‘I’m going to sit you down and tell you all the things that are wrong with your movie, but I’ll wait till you get back from the Cannes Film Festival.'” Then he goes and he wins the Palme d’Or.
事实上，我的一个朋友甚至说，‘我要让你坐下来，告诉你你的电影的所有问题，但我会等到你从戛纳电影节回来。’”然后他就离开了，并赢得了金棕榈奖。
Then his friend’s like, “Oh, what the hell do I know?
Then his friend’s like, “Oh, what the hell do I know?
I’ve only made one movie myself, so never mind.
我自己只拍过一部电影，所以没关系。
I guess we were all wrong.” So even he didn’t expect that, at all, so that was a shock, even to him.
我想我们都错了。” So even he didn’t expect that, at all, so that was a shock, even to him.
So, think about that.
所以，想一想。
Yeah.
是的。
That means, what do you do?
这意味着，你做什么？
1:45:24 Commit to a body of work.
致力于一系列工作。
Just do that.
就这么做吧。
Because you don’t know.
因为你不知道。
You don’t know what’s going to be a Pulp Fiction, and what’s going to be a Jackie Brown.
You don’t know what’s going to be a Pulp Fiction, and what’s going to be a Jackie Brown.
What’s going to be…
将会发生什么……
You don’t know.
你不知道。
And you’d like to think they know, but they don’t know either.
And you’d like to think they know, but they don’t know either.
They feel it.
他们感觉到了。
Like I asked Jim Cameron.
就像我问吉姆·卡梅隆一样。
I said, “Do you see your movie really clearly?
我说：“你看电影真的看得清楚吗？
Can you see it with hyper focus?
你能用超聚焦看到它吗？
Because it seems like that.” And he goes, “It’s really far, and it’s out of focus.
因为看起来就是这样。” And he goes, “It’s really far, and it’s out of focus.
And as you work on it, and you work on it starts coming.” I said, “Well, okay, good.
And as you work on it, and you work on it starts coming.”我说：“嗯，好吧，很好。
So that’s normal.” I thought maybe he had laser vision, or something.
所以这很正常。” I thought maybe he had laser vision, or something.
But no, even him, he doesn’t really know, but he feels that he can make decisions and he understands what a creative drive is, and how to just keep being relentless about it.
但不，即使是他，他也不太清楚，但他觉得自己可以做出决定，并且了解什么是创造力，以及如何坚持不懈。
1:46:05 But it’s not like they have all the…
但这并不像他们拥有所有......
Proximity is huge.
距离是巨大的。
Proximity will change your life.
接近将改变你的生活。
Did for me.
为我做的。
Just being around those guys.
就在那些家伙身边。
They didn’t teach me, “Hey, I’m going to teach you how to make a movie.” Just being next to them, being in their world, just ups your game.
They didn’t teach me, “Hey, I’m going to teach you how to make a movie.” Just being next to them, being in their world, just ups your game.
And you’re able to do things you weren’t able to do before.
And you’re able to do things you weren’t able to do before.
You get ideas you didn’t get to do before I did.
你会得到一些在我之前没有做过的想法。
I’ll show you one of my painting things.
我将向你展示我的一件画作。
1:46:32 You’re not going to believe this freaking thing.
You’re not going to believe this freaking thing.
I had a painter friend in Germany, Sebastian Kruger, he gives a workshop once a year.
I had a painter friend in Germany, Sebastian Kruger, he gives a workshop once a year.
I said, “I’m going to go there, and I bet I’ll learn more about directing by watching this guy paint, than I will by watching another director.” Because that’s just, now, I know how creativity works.
我说：“我要去那里，我敢打赌，通过观看这个人画画，我会比观看其他导演学到更多关于导演的知识。” Because that’s just, now, I know how creativity works.
You’re going to learn lessons outside of the box by doing that.
You’re going to learn lessons outside of the box by doing that.
And I tried to practice before going out there.
我在出去之前试着练习一下。
I was doing a Danny Trejo, I’ll show you the before and after.
I was doing a Danny Trejo, I’ll show you the before and after.
You’re not going to freaking believe what you see, but it really tells the story of how important proximity is.
你不会难以置信地相信你所看到的，但它确实讲述了邻近性的重要性。
1:47:04 So I do this painting, it’s like, “Ah, it fucking looks garbage.” I’ll show you, it looks like garbage.
所以我画这幅画时，就像是，“啊，它看起来太垃圾了。”我会告诉你，它看起来像垃圾。
I can’t do paintings that are just like…
我不能画出像这样的画……
See, you never should say, “I can’t,” because you just cut your leg off.
看，你永远不应该说“我不能”，因为你刚刚切断了你的腿。
But I couldn’t at the time paint, just paintbrush into paint and then right on the canvas like that, without using some kind of medium.
但当时我还不能画画，只能用画笔涂上颜料，然后就这样在画布上画画，而不需要使用某种媒介。
Which this guy Sebastian Kruger would do.
塞巴斯蒂安·克鲁格这个人就会这么做。
So first I did a digital painting of Danny Trejo, just to get the framing and all that
所以首先我给 Danny Trejo 做了一幅数字绘画，只是为了得到框架和所有这些
Nice.
不错。
1:47:30 How was that created?
那是如何创建的？
That’s like on a Wacom tablet.
就像在 Wacom 平板电脑上一样。
1:47:32 But then I did it with paint, and it’s like, “Ah, it’s all cruddy, and it’s too thick, the paint.
但后来我用油漆做了，就像，“啊，全都是粗糙的，而且油漆太厚了。
It just looks…” And I just gave up right away.
它看起来只是……”我马上就放弃了。
I was trying to pre-practice so I wouldn’t be a total buffoon there, because I was going the next week.
我试图进行预练习，这样我就不会在那里成为一个彻头彻尾的小丑，因为我下周就要去。
And I thought, “He’s using a different brush,” obviously, “he’s using a better paint.
我想，“他用的是不同的画笔，”显然，“他用的是更好的颜料。
This stuff just is clogging up, and it’s crap.
这些东西只是堵塞了，而且很糟糕。
I’m sure when I get there…”
我确信当我到达那里时……”
1:47:54 So I get there, and he’s doing a Mick Jagger.
当我到达那里时，他正在表演米克·贾格尔（Mick Jagger）。
And he starts with a mid-tone.
他以中间音开始。
He starts blocking in the face with a little tiny drawing of where the face goes.
他开始用一个小画来遮挡脸部，并画出脸部的走向。
He starts doing that.
他开始这样做。
He starts adding some highlights.
他开始添加一些亮点。
There’s the photo, his reference.
这是照片，他的参考资料。
And I’m like, “Why are you concentrating so much on the cheek first?” And he was like, “It’s different every time.” Every, and I go, what paints are you using?” And he’s like, “It was regular acrylic paint.” “What brushes do you have?” “Regular brushes?” And I’m like, “How come mine doesn’t look like yours?”
我想，“你为什么首先把注意力集中在脸颊上？”他说：“每次都不一样。”每个，我去，你用什么油漆？他说，“这是普通的丙烯颜料。” “你有什么刷子？” “普通的刷子？”我就想，“为什么我的看起来不像你的？”
1:48:29 “Well, let me try what he’s doing.
“好吧，让我试试他在做什么。
You start with a mid-tone.
你从中间色调开始。
I’m going to do that Danny again, start with a mid-tone.
丹尼，我要再做一次，从中间音开始。
I’ll start adding some highlights.” And I did that, and everybody kept coming over going, “Did you just do that?” And I was like, “Yeah, I don’t know how,” but it’s very cartoony still.
我将开始添加一些亮点。”我就这样做了，每个人都过来问：“你刚刚这样做了吗？”我当时想，“是的，我不知道怎么做，”但它仍然非常卡通。
He’s doing a very realistic Mick Jagger.
他正在扮演一个非常现实的米克·贾格尔。
Look how real that is.
看看那是多么真实。
And you’re just watching, and he doesn’t teach you anything.
而你只是在看，他不会教你任何东西。
He just starts painting.
他刚刚开始画画。
So this is the photo he had as a reference, but then this is his painting.
这是他作为参考的照片，但这是他的画。
Right?
对吗？
Yeah.
是的。
And because I’m there, he’s not teaching you how to paint.
因为我在那里，他不会教你如何画画。
Through osmosis, you’re learning, somehow.
通过渗透，你在某种程度上学习。
You’re seeing that there isn’t a trick.
你会发现没有什么窍门。
Yeah.
是的。
I thought he had a trick, and that’s why I couldn’t get any further.
我以为他有窍门，所以我无法继续下去。
1:49:08 He’s using the same brush and the same paint.
他使用相同的画笔和相同的颜料。
Well, how come I can’t do that?
嗯，我怎么做不到呢？
And you go, you do it.
然后你就去吧，你就去做。
And I go, “I’m going to try and do something realistic.” I’ve never done realistic before, because I’m a cartoonist, and everything.
我说：“我要尝试做一些现实的事情。”我以前从来没有做过写实的作品，因为我是一名漫画家，等等。
I was cartoony, and that was just easier for me, because I thought I would need too much training.
我很卡通，这对我来说更容易，因为我认为我需要太多的训练。
I did another Trejo, I started doing a realistic, I finished out just one section of his face.
我又做了一个特雷霍，我开始做一个现实的，我只完成了他脸部的一部分。
And put the pen down, because I did that.
然后放下笔，因为我就是这么做的。
Shit.
妈的。
The same day.
同一天。
Nice.
不错。
I got out of my way, because seeing him get out of his own way, I think that’s why sometimes people need to go to school for stuff like that.
我别挡我的路，因为看到他别挡他自己的路，我想这就是为什么有时人们需要去学校做这样的事情。
1:49:37 Because then now, “Well, I just did four years of school, so now I must know.” Now you’ve given yourself permission.
因为现在，“好吧，我刚刚上了四年学，所以现在我必须知道。”现在你已经给了自己许可。
But you could give yourself permission right away, and it’s going to come through.
但你可以立即给予自己许可，它就会实现。
And drawing Danny Trejo, of all people is like, there’s so much going on there.
画丹尼·特乔（Danny Trejo）就像是，那里发生了很多事情。
1:49:54 It’s like he’s so expressive.
看来他的表达能力很强。
He’s so expressive, and so much-
他是如此富有表现力，而且如此——
I mean, you’ve worked with him a lot, and he’s one of the most badass humans on the screen.
我的意思是，你和他合作了很多次，他是银幕上最坏的人之一。
1:50:00 You’ve created that.
你已经创造了它。
Can you just talk about what it’s like, creating those characters?
您能谈谈创作这些角色的感受吗？
What was exciting about Desperados, I went to go make it, and there were no Latin actors working in Hollywood.
《亡命之徒》令人兴奋的地方是，我去拍它，而好莱坞没有拉丁演员。
1:50:12 Because no one was creating roles for them.
因为没有人为他们创造角色。
So I thought, “Wow, I got to go create my own stars.
所以我想，“哇，我必须去创造我自己的星星。
We’ll bring Antonio from Europe, because they kind of know his name from the Almodóvar movies, and I saw him in Tie Me Up!
我们将从欧洲带来安东尼奥，因为他们从阿尔莫多瓦电影中知道了他的名字，我在《绑住我》中看到了他！
Tie Me Down!, when I was in the hospital writing Mariachi.
把我拴住！，当我在医院写流浪乐队时。
We were watching TV while I was a patient, and there’s a scene where he headbutts Victoria Abril.
当我还是个病人时，我们正在看电视，有一个场景是他用头撞维多利亚·阿布里尔。
He just gave her headbutt.
他只是用头撞了她。
But he goes, like that.
但他就这样走了。
I was like, “Whoa.
我当时想，“哇。
I bet that guy would want to be in an action movie.
我敢打赌那家伙肯定想出演动作片。
He’s got something inside.”
他里面有东西。”
1:50:44 So I called him when we were doing Desperado and I said, “Would you ever consider doing an action?” “Oh man, I’d love to do action.” You know, he said something…
所以当我们拍《亡命之徒》时我打电话给他，我说：“你会考虑做一个动作戏吗？” “哦，伙计，我很乐意采取行动。”你知道，他说了一些话……
So I said, “Well, I got a movie for you.
所以我说：“好吧，我为你准备了一部电影。
I got a movie for you.
我有一部电影给你看。
It’s the sequel to Mariachi.” And so, Salma I found in Mexico television.
这是《流浪乐队》的续集。”于是，我在墨西哥电视台找到了萨尔玛。
She couldn’t get work in the U.S., because of the roles that are [inaudible 01:51:05]-
她无法在美国找到工作，因为这些角色 [听不清 01:51:05]-
Yeah.
是的。
1:51:05 How did you find her?
你是怎么找到她的？
I mean, this is one of the greatest-
我的意思是，这是最伟大的之一——
It was a crazy story-
这是一个疯狂的故事——
…
……
1:51:07 actors in the world.
世界上的演员。
…
……
one of the best stories.
最好的故事之一。
I was really determined to hire a real Latin, especially Hispanic, and then she’s Mexican, actress, to be the Mexican character.
我真的决定聘请一个真正的拉丁裔，尤其是西班牙裔，然后她是墨西哥女演员，来扮演墨西哥角色。
That’s as authentic as you can get.
这是你能得到的最真实的。
And there was no one who was getting any jobs, because no one was creating any.
没有人获得任何工作机会，因为没有人创造任何工作。
So there was no one that had any movies under their name, because there was no one, it was a whole systemic problem.
所以没有人以他们的名义拍摄任何电影，因为没有人，这是一个完整的系统性问题。
This was ’94, ’93.
这是94年、93年。
So I was watching a Paul Rodriguez show on Univision, because I was trying to practice my Spanish, because I was having to do all these Spanish interviews.
所以我在 Univision 上观看保罗·罗德里格斯 (Paul Rodriguez) 的节目，因为我想练习我的西班牙语，因为我必须做所有这些西班牙语采访。
Because Mariachi was in Spanish.
因为Mariachi 是西班牙语。
That was the other part I didn’t tell you, I didn’t speak Spanish when I made that movie.
这是我没有告诉你的另一部分，我拍那部电影时不会说西班牙语。
We didn’t grow up with it.
我们并不是伴随着它长大的。
So I left that part out of the Mariachi story, because I thought, people already didn’t believe I made the movie by myself.
所以我把这一部分从流浪乐队的故事中剔除，因为我想，人们已经不相信我自己制作了这部电影。
If they knew I made it in a language I didn’t speak?
如果他们知道我是用我不会说的语言创作的呢？
I should have said it, because it’d be even more inspiring.
我应该这么说，因为这会更鼓舞人心。
Yeah, that’s inspiring.
是的，这很鼓舞人心。
Like, now you have no excuse.
就像，现在你没有借口了。
1:51:57 I wrote the English subtitles, basically.
基本上英文字幕都是我写的。
Holy shit.
天啊。
I wrote the titles, what became the subtitles, and then we’d take it to the actors, and the actor would translate it for me.
我写了标题，然后我们把它交给演员，演员会为我翻译。
1:52:01 And I was like-
我当时想——
That is so inspiring.
这太鼓舞人心了。
…
……
1:52:09 I’d be like-
我会像-
Holy shit.
天啊。
…
……
1:52:11 I would try to speak Spanish.
我会尝试说西班牙语。
And say, “[foreign language 01:52:13],” like, “Let’s record.” And they’d be looking at me like, “What the fuck?” That means, “Let’s remember.” The [foreign language 01:52:19] doesn’t mean record.
然后说“[外语 01:52:13]”，比如“让我们录音吧。”他们会看着我，好像在说：“他妈的怎么了？”这意味着“让我们记住”。 [外语01:52:19]并不是录音的意思。
That means [foreign language 01:52:22].
这意味着[外语01:52:22]。
Now I know, back then, I didn’t know.
现在我知道了，当时我不知道。
1:52:23 So I’m watching Univision, and then there’s Salma as a guest, and she’s a big soap star down there in Mexico.
所以我正在观看Univision，然后萨尔玛作为嘉宾，她是墨西哥的肥皂剧明星。
And she comes out, she’s beautiful, she’s funny, everyone’s laughing.
她出来了，她很漂亮，她很有趣，每个人都在笑。
She’s Salma.
她是萨尔玛。
Everyone that we know, now.
现在我们认识的每个人。
And she starts talking about, what I gather from what she’s saying, that she’s having trouble finding any work in the U.S. because of her accent.
她开始谈论，我从她的话中了解到，由于她的口音，她在美国很难找到工作。
And then Paul Rodriguez says, “Well, say something in English.” And she says, and she sounds just like she does now.
然后保罗·罗德里格斯说：“好吧，用英语说点什么。”她说，听起来就像现在一样。
And he goes, “That’s great.” And she goes, “I know, I know.” And I went, “I think this is the girl.”
他说：“那太好了。”她说：“我知道，我知道。”我说：“我想这就是那个女孩。”
1:52:53 So I called her in my office, and I videotaped our first meeting together.
所以我给她打电话到我的办公室，并录下了我们的第一次会面。
So I have that somewhere.
所以我在某个地方有这个。
Oh, that’s awesome.
哦，那太棒了。
1:52:59 That’s so awesome.
太棒了。
And it’s Salma.
这是萨尔玛。
1:53:02 It’s Salma.
这是萨尔玛。
It’s her, with her energy, with her passion, and funny.
就是她，充满活力、热情、有趣。
She became instant friends with my wife.
她很快就和我妻子成为了朋友。
Before they walked over, “Your wife and I are best friends.” She already was like part of the family.
走过去之前，“我和你妻子是最好的朋友。”她已经像是这个家庭的一员了。
She’s a godmother to my kids.
她是我孩子们的教母。
And I thought, “I’m going to help you, and you’re going to help me.
我想：“我会帮助你，你也会帮助我。
I need to have a Mexican actress in this, and you’re going to be phenomenal.
我需要一位墨西哥女演员来演这部电影，而你一定会表现出色。
1:53:21 The studio didn’t see it.
工作室没看到。
They were like, “What?
他们就像，“什么？
She hasn’t done anything.
她什么也没做。
Why don’t you just hire somebody else, who already has a name?” I said, “Well, if we just give her one movie, then she’ll be someone who’s in a movie, and then you can keep casting.” So I made a whole nother movie with her in English, called Road Racers.
你为什么不雇佣其他已经有名字的人呢？”我说：“好吧，如果我们只给她一部电影，那么她就会成为电影中的一个人，然后你就可以继续选角。”所以我和她一起用英语制作了另一部电影，叫做《公路赛车手》。
It was my second film for Showtime.
这是我为 Showtime 拍摄的第二部电影。
A really cool little Rebel Without a Cause type movie.
一部非常酷的无因叛逆类型的小电影。
And I gave her a role in that, so we’d have an example of her doing English.
我给了她一个角色，所以我们有一个她学英语的例子。
And they still were like, “We need a screen test.
他们仍然说，“我们需要进行屏幕测试。
We need to have a screen test with a bunch of other actresses.” So I said, “Sure, let’s do that.”
我们需要和其他一些女演员一起进行试镜。”所以我说：“当然，我们就这么做吧。”
1:53:55 So I went over to her house the night before the screen test, and we worked on the scene, which is the best scene.
所以试镜前一天晚上我去了她家，我们一起制作了这个场景，这是最好的场景。
Where she’s operating on his arm, and they’ve got all this chemistry.
她在他的手臂上做手术，他们之间产生了化学反应。
And I was just directing her through it completely, down to, “When you pick up the water, and you hand him the water, don’t scream, “Oh, hot water!” Just be like, “Hot water,” while he’s spitting it out, and it’s going to be a big dramatic action with a very light delivery.
我只是完全引导她完成这一切，直到，“当你拿起水，递给他水时，不要尖叫，“哦，热水！”当他吐出水时，就像“热水”一样，这将是一个戏剧性的动作，而且动作非常轻松。
And so, we got it down to a science.
所以，我们把它归结为一门科学。
1:54:22 The next day we, show up, Antonio does a scene with all the girls who come in.
第二天我们出现时，安东尼奥和所有进来的女孩一起表演了一场戏。
He does it with her.
他和她一起做。
Clearly, they’ve got amazing chemistry.
显然，他们之间有着惊人的化学反应。
She just nails it.
她只是钉钉子而已。
He’s great.
他很棒。
He loves her, too.
他也爱她。
Studio’s like, “Okay, you can hire her.” Reluctantly, like that.
Studio 的反应是：“好吧，你可以雇用她。”无奈，就这样吧。
But once they saw the footage come as we were shooting, and they saw it on the big screen when they were watching the dailies, then they were like, “Oh my God.” And then they saw it.
但是，当他们在我们拍摄时看到镜头，并且在观看样片时在大屏幕上看到它时，他们就会说：“天啊。”然后他们看到了。
Then they saw what I saw when I met her.
然后他们看到了我见到她时所看到的。
1:54:52 But sometimes, like you say, what do you do when people are like, “Hey, how come you’re using these…?” Just know that not everyone’s going to see it.
但有时，就像你说的，当人们说“嘿，你为什么要使用这些……？”时，你会怎么做？只是知道不是每个人都会看到它。
You may have the only vision, just keep going.
你可能有唯一的愿景，继续前进。
There’s an instinct that tells you to keep going that way.
有一种本能告诉你要继续这样做。
You’ll get proved right or wrong, or maybe you’re slipping on the first two rocks, or whatever.
你会被证明是对还是错，或者也许你在前两块岩石上滑倒，或者其他什么。
But follow your instinct, because everyone’s going to have an opinion, and it’s not necessarily the right one.
但请跟随你的直觉，因为每个人都会有自己的观点，但不一定是正确的。
And when you’re an independent filmmaker, you can make those decisions that change people’s career, that changes the world.
当你是一名独立电影制片人时，你可以做出那些改变人们职业生涯、改变世界的决定。
1:55:22 And that’s why you want to remain independent.
这就是为什么你想保持独立。
That’s why what’s happening now in the industry is great, because I have to make movies like the way I started, which is what I’ve always liked to do.
这就是为什么现在这个行业正在发生的事情很棒，因为我必须像我开始的方式那样制作电影，这也是我一直喜欢做的事情。
Which is just doing it where we create our own destiny.
这只是我们创造自己命运的地方。
We go, “Hey, we’re going to make a movie.
我们说：“嘿，我们要拍一部电影。
We’re going to make it for this budget, so we can make it.
我们将按照这个预算来完成，所以我们可以做到。
And the story’s going to be so character-driven and cool, we’re going to be able to get big actors to be in it because they’re going to want to be in it.”
这个故事将会非常以角色为主导，而且很酷，我们将能够让大牌演员参与其中，因为他们会想参与其中。”
1:55:42 So, Danny Trejo, you asked me about Danny Trejo.
丹尼·特雷霍（Danny Trejo），你向我询问了丹尼·特雷霍（Danny Trejo）的情况。
It’s great story.
这是一个很棒的故事。
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
是的，是的，是的，是的，是的。
Okay, Danny Trejo.
好的，丹尼·特雷霍。
1:55:45 We’re doing Desperado now, I’m casting all kinds of people.
我们现在正在拍《亡命之徒》，我正在选各种各样的人。
Now, I have this character that I want to have a bunch of knives.
现在，我有了这个角色，我想拥有一堆刀。
He opens up his vest, and there’s a bunch of knives.
他打开背心，里面有一堆刀。
So, “Bring me all the coolest looking Latin actors we can find.” And before he even walked in, there’s a picture of him, he already looked like the guy, but he was younger.
所以，“给我带来我们能找到的所有最酷的拉丁演员。”在他走进去之前，就有一张他的照片，他已经看起来像那个人了，但他更年轻。
He always just played prison inmates.
他总是只扮演监狱里的囚犯。
It was a picture of him as an inmate, in a prison.
这是他作为囚犯在监狱里的照片。
“I want to give him a cool role, whoever this actor is.” He walks in, and I see him.
“我想给他一个很酷的角色，不管这个演员是谁。”他走进来，我看到了他。
It’s Danny Trejo.
我是丹尼·特雷霍。
He sits down, and I had the prop knife already made.
他坐下来，我已经做好了道具刀。
And I say, “You need to have this in your hand and look like you sleep with it.
我说：“你需要把它拿在手里，看起来就像你抱着它睡觉一样。
Just practice flipping it around in your hand.”
只要练习在手中翻转它就可以了。”
1:56:24 And I gave it to him.
我把它给了他。
“You got the role, just start practicing with that.” And he gets up, and he walks out.
“你得到了这个角色，就开始练习吧。”他站起来，走了出去。
He didn’t have to say anything because there’s no dialogue.
他不必说什么，因为没有对话。
He walks out, holding the…
他走出去，手里拿着……
We get to the set, and he kept saying, “Put me in, Coach.
我们到达了片场，他一直说：“让我上场吧，教练。
Give me a line, give me a line.” It’s like, “No, no, you’re such a nice guy, you’re going to blow the whole mystique.
给我一条线，给我一条线。”就像是，“不，不，你真是个好人，你会打破整个神秘面纱的。
I want this guy to feel like the most evil, scary guy of all.
我希望这个人感觉自己是所有人中最邪恶、最可怕的人。
And you’re such a nice guy.” I didn’t let him talk till Dusk Till Dawn.
而且你真是个好人。”直到黎明我才让他说话。
But one thing I noticed was that the town we shot in, the Mexican town, which is the same town I shot Mariachi.
但我注意到的一件事是我们拍摄的墨西哥小镇，这也是我拍摄墨西哥流浪乐队的同一个小镇。
We went back there, because I wanted to pay back the city.
我们回到那里，因为我想回报这座城市。
So we had this big movie there.
所以我们在那里拍了一部大电影。
1:56:56 And they didn’t really know Antonio, because he was in European movies.
他们并不真正了解安东尼奥，因为他出演过欧洲电影。
Salma hadn’t come to the set yet.
萨尔玛还没有来片场。
But they saw Danny Trejo there in his vest, looking like a Mexican icon.
但他们看到丹尼·特雷霍穿着背心，看起来就像墨西哥的偶像。
They would go like this.
他们会这样走。
Everyone thought he was the star.
每个人都认为他是明星。
And I just know magnetism when I see it, and I went, “This guy’s got something.” So I went to him and I said, “I got a movie we’re going to do someday.” This was ’94.
当我看到它时，我就知道它有磁性，然后我就说：“这家伙有东西。”所以我去找他说：“我有一部我们有一天要拍的电影。”这是94年的事。
We didn’t make this movie for 15 years.
我们已经 15 年没有拍这部电影了。
“Machete.
“弯刀。
You’re going to be machete.” I had an idea for Machete then, it wasn’t the same story.
你将成为砍刀。”当时我就有了砍刀的想法，但那不是同一个故事。
I had seen a story, actually, the guy from Mariachi sent me this funny story.
我看过一个故事，实际上，墨西哥流浪乐队的那个人给我发了这个有趣的故事。
He said, “Hey, look at this story,” that the USDA, and FBI sometimes, would hire a Mexican federale to come do a job for 25 grand that they didn’t want to get their own guys killed on.
他说，“嘿，看看这个故事”，美国农业部和联邦调查局有时会花 25 英镑聘请一名墨西哥联邦官员来做一项工作，他们不想让自己的人被杀。
I said, “That’s Machete.
我说：“那是砍刀。”
The guy that they pay,” but he’s not doing it for the money.
他们付钱的人”，但他这样做并不是为了钱。
It turns out he has to get this guy that escaped Mexico, and that’s the twist.
事实证明，他必须抓住这个逃离墨西哥的人，这就是转折。
So that was the original story I had.
这就是我最初的故事。
1:57:57 I said, “We’re going to do this someday.” And we talked about it for years, and never did it.
我说：“有一天我们会这么做的。”我们谈论了很多年，但从未付诸实践。
Never got around to doing it.
从来没有抽出时间去做这件事。
So when I did Spy Kids, I put him in Spy Kids and I said, “Hey, let’s pay tribute to that character we never got to make, and you’ll be Uncle Machete.” He’s a gadget guy, but he’s got a mysterious past.
所以当我拍《小间谍》时，我把他放在《小间谍》里，我说，“嘿，让我们向那个我们从未制作过的角色致敬，你就是砍刀叔叔。”他是一个小玩意儿，却有着神秘的过去。
But then a few years later, Quentin and I were doing Grindhouse, and he’d already done Dusk Till Dawn with me.
但几年后，昆汀和我一起拍《刑房》，他已经和我一起拍了《杀出个黎明》。
I was building my own Latin star system.
我正在建立自己的拉丁星系统。
Salma showed up in a bunch of my movies.
萨尔玛出现在我的很多电影中。
Cheech shows up in every movie.
奇奇出现在每部电影中。
Danny shows up there.
丹尼出现在那里。
I brought Cheech out of retirement, put him in my movie.
我让 Cheech 重新回到退休状态，让他出现在我的电影中。
I needed to create my own Latin star system, because all my scripts…
我需要创建自己的拉丁星系统，因为我所有的脚本......
Because when you write in your own voice, you’re going to write, probably somebody that’s Latin.
因为当你用自己的声音写作时，你所写的可能是拉丁语。
So you need to have a star system that matches that, so that you don’t have trouble casting.
所以你需要有一个与之相匹配的明星系统，这样你就不会在选角时遇到麻烦。
And people are like, “Well, you can’t hire this person.” So I built up my own star system.
人们会说，“好吧，你不能雇用这个人。”所以我建立了自己的明星系统。
So Danny was one of my stars.
所以丹尼是我的明星之一。
1:58:44 So after we’re doing Grindhouse, we had to do fake trailers for Grindhouse.
所以在我们制作《Grindhouse》之后，我们必须为《Grindhouse》制作假预告片。
And I told Quentin, “I know what trailer I’m going to do, for the movie I never got to make with Danny called Machete.
我告诉昆汀，“我知道我要做什么预告片，因为我从未与丹尼一起制作过一部名为《弯刀》的电影。
That’ll be so fun to finally get that out of our system.” And doing a trailer is so fun.
最终将其从我们的系统中删除将会非常有趣。”制作预告片非常有趣。
It’s two days of shooting, just still being that resourceful guy, we asked this company that had a digital camera we wanted to use, “Can you send it to us for a couple of day screen test?
拍摄了两天，还是那个足智多谋的家伙，我们问这家有我们想要使用的数码相机的公司，“你能把它寄给我们进行几天的屏幕测试吗？
I mean, camera test.
我的意思是，相机测试。
Instead of shooting a camera test, we shot the trailer.
我们没有拍摄相机测试，而是拍摄了预告片。
So we got a free camera, shot the trailer with him, and it’s just the money shots.
所以我们得到了一台免费的相机，和他一起拍摄了预告片，这只是为了赚钱。
Him opening his vest full of machetes, him aiming that gun, him in a waterfall with two gals.
他打开装满砍刀的背心，用枪瞄准，他和两个女孩在瀑布里。
And I just came up with this really funny trailer, and we shot it.
我刚刚想出了这个非常有趣的预告片，我们就拍摄了它。
1:59:27 People were screaming at the premiere, you couldn’t even hear it.
首映式上人们在尖叫，你甚至听不到。
They just wanted that movie so badly, because there was blaxploitation in the ’70s.
他们只是非常想要那部电影，因为 70 年代存在黑人剥削。
There was never mexploitation.
从来没有剥削。
It felt like this should have existed, but it didn’t.
感觉这应该存在，但事实并非如此。
So a Mexican superhero, they’d just never seen anything like that.
所以作为墨西哥超级英雄，他们从来没有见过这样的事情。
Now, you know.
现在，你知道了。
But even his mom calls him Machete.
但就连他的妈妈也叫他弯刀。
He just became this guy, and of 250 movies that he’s been in, Machete is most famous one.
他刚刚成为这个人，在他参演过的 250 部电影中，《弯刀》是最著名的一部。
So for five years, five years, people would come up to us and say, “Where’s Machete?
所以五年来，五年来，人们会来找我们说：“砍刀在哪里？
When is that movie coming out?” And we were like, “It’s not a real movie, but when it looks real, we want to see that movie.”
那部电影什么时候上映？”我们当时想，“这不是一部真正的电影，但当它看起来很真实时，我们想看那部电影。”
2:00:06 So we finally made the movie because people just asked for it.
所以我们最终制作了这部电影，因为人们只是要求它。
And I was adamant about, being resourceful again, “All those shots that are in the trailer are really great.
我坚信，再次足智多谋，“预告片中的所有镜头都非常棒。
I got to reverse engineer the trailer into a movie, so that I can use that shot that’s in the trailer.
我必须将预告片逆向工程成电影，这样我就可以使用预告片中的镜头。
Like this girl in the waterfall.
就像瀑布里的这个女孩一样。
Why would this girl be in the waterfall?” Thought of a really clever way that he gets the bad guy.
这丫头怎么会在瀑布里？”他想出了一个非常聪明的方法来抓捕坏人。
“Her face is kind of covered by this hair.
“她的脸有点被头发遮住了。
We’ll cast Lindsay Lohan, there.” Or, “The senator, we’ll switch it out for Robert De Niro.” Well, I just reversed engineered it, so every time there’s a shot in the trailer, it’s in the movie, but I shot all the footage around to lead up to it.
我们将让林赛·罗韩（Lindsay Lohan）在那里出演。”或者，“参议员，我们把它换成罗伯特·德尼罗。”好吧，我只是对其进行了逆向工程，所以每次预告片中出现一个镜头时，它都会出现在电影中，但我拍摄了所有镜头以引导它。
That’s another fun creative exercise, is to reverse engineer something you just did like this, on the day.
这是另一个有趣的创造性练习，就是对你当天刚刚做的事情进行逆向工程。
You just threw a bunch of cards out, basically, with that trailer.
基本上，你只是随预告片扔了一堆卡片。
And now you got to go make a movie using all those cards.
现在你必须用所有这些卡片去拍一部电影。
That’s a creative exercise that I thought so satisfying, so fun.
这是一个创造性的练习，我认为它非常令人满意，非常有趣。
Yeah, that was beautiful.
是的，那很漂亮。
2:00:56 You’re actually known in part, maybe you can correct me, but to do pretty unexpected, surprising, kind of interesting casting.
你实际上已经部分出名了，也许你可以纠正我，但要进行非常意想不到的、令人惊讶的、有趣的选角。
So Robert De Niro is an example of that, and that’s just a great role.
罗伯特·德尼罗就是一个例子，这是一个很棒的角色。
The second aspect of that, I heard the story that, you can just get an actor in and out in just a few days.
第二个方面，我听说过一个故事，你可以在短短几天内让一个演员进出。
Really fast.
真的很快。
The Robert Rodriguez experience, as they call it.
正如他们所说，罗伯特·罗德里格斯的经历。
How do you make that happen?
你如何做到这一点？
Can you just tell the story of Robert De Niro?
你能讲一下罗伯特·德尼罗的故事吗？
Well, I’m the editor, I’m the cameraman, I’m the DP.
嗯，我是剪辑师，我是摄影师，我是摄影指导。
2:01:19 And so, when I call him and say, “I’ve got you as the villain in this whole movie, but I swear, I’m going to shoot you on four days.
所以，当我打电话给他说：“我让你成为整部电影中的反派，但我发誓，我要在四天内开枪射杀你。
You come down in four days.” In fact, there’s a scene where he’s in the hospital.
四天后你就下来了。”事实上，有一个场景是他在医院。
He’s just smiling, he’s having such a good time, because he couldn’t believe it.
他只是微笑着，他玩得很开心，因为他简直不敢相信。
I said, “Guess what?
我说：“你猜怎么着？
When you wake up from your hotel room at the Stephen F.
当您从 Stephen F.
Austin, you just cross the hallway, that’s the set.
奥斯汀，你只要穿过走廊，就是这样。
The room next to yours, we turned into the hospital set.
你隔壁的房间，我们变成了医院布景。
So you’re just going to come lay in there, in your pajamas.
所以你只需穿着睡衣躺在那里即可。
Really?
真的吗？
2:01:49 That’s what you did?
这就是你所做的？
Well, yeah, we had to save time.
嗯，是的，我们必须节省时间。
2:01:50 We only have four days.
我们只有四天时间。
So everything had to be very thought out to be like boom, boom, boom.
所以一切都必须经过深思熟虑，就像繁荣、繁荣、繁荣一样。
Let’s shoot the money, get him out of this.
让我们砸钱吧，让他摆脱困境。
We don’t have to spend a lot of money on him.
我们不需要在他身上花很多钱。
Book a room in a hotel, set it up to look like a hospital room.
在酒店预订一个房间，将其布置得像医院病房一样。
Yeah, that’s our set.
是的，这就是我们的套餐。
2:02:01 And it’s real, you don’t have to dress it, and it’s just right there.
而且它是真实的，你不需要打扮它，它就在那里。
All you do is put a little tube there for his IV, and then you have a couple of nurses, and it looks like a hospital.
你所要做的就是在他的静脉注射中放一根小管子，然后有几个护士，它看起来就像一家医院。
That was genius.
那真是天才。
2:02:11 It was Robert De Niro.
这是罗伯特·德尼罗。
Resourceful, resourceful.
足智多谋，足智多谋。
2:02:13 Next door.
隔壁。
But I said, “You’re going to think about me when you’re on your next Meet the Fockers movie, and you’re on there for six months, where they have you sitting in a trailer.
但我说，“当你参加下一部《拜见福克斯》电影时，你会想到我，而且你在那里待了六个月，他们让你坐在预告片里。
I don’t like to do that.”
我不喜欢这样做。”
2:02:23 You know, I gave a Lady Gaga her first two movies.
你知道，我给了 Lady Gaga 她的前两部电影。
Because after Machete she said publicly, she said, “I saw Machete, and my song Americano should have been in Machete.” I thought, “She saw Machete?”
因为在《Machete》之后，她公开说道，“我看到了《Machete》，我的歌曲《Americano》应该是在《Machete》中。”我想：“她看到了弯刀？”
Yeah.
是的。
So I called her up and I said, “Hey, I’m making a sequel, and I would certainly use your music.
所以我打电话给她，我说：“嘿，我正在制作续集，我肯定会使用你的音乐。
2:02:36 But have you ever thought about acting?
但你有想过演戏吗？
Because you’re an amazing performer, I think you’d be…” I’ve worked with a lot of actors who are also musicians, and they’re always great.
因为你是一位出色的表演者，我想你会……”我和很多演员同时也是音乐家合作过，他们总是很棒。
Because they already know how to be a persona, be on stage, be in front of a bunch of people, which most actors can’t do.
因为他们已经知道如何扮演一个角色，如何在舞台上，在一群人面前，这是大多数演员做不到的。
And she said, “Actually I studied acting before I became a singer.” Said, “Well, you’ll never be able to be in a movie, because you know what?
她说：“其实我在成为歌手之前是学表演的。”说：“好吧，你永远无法出演电影，因为你知道吗？
They don’t know how to shoot people out.
他们不知道如何把人射出去。
They’ll want six months of your time, and you’re always on tour.
他们会想要你六个月的时间，而你总是在巡演中。
But if you come, be here, I have a part for you.
但如果你来了，就来这里吧，我有一个角色给你。
I can shoot you out in half a day, this whole section of a movie, and I’ll shoot your movie poster.”
我半天就可以把你拍完这一段电影，然后我给你拍电影海报。”
It’s incredible.
太不可思议了。
She’s like, “Okay.” So she shows up.
她说：“好吧。”所以她出现了。
2:03:11 I had all the sets like a conveyor belt, right next to each other.
我把所有的组都像传送带一样，彼此相邻。
Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.
射击，射击，射击，射击。
She’s in the car.
她在车里。
That’s why she had me do her music video for Rain On Me, later.
这就是为什么她后来让我为 Rain On Me 制作她的音乐录影带。
She said, “We should just go to Austin.
她说：“我们应该去奥斯汀。
Robert, put me on a grease,” that was throughout that whole movie.
罗伯特，给我涂点润滑油”，这句话贯穿了整部电影。
I don’t know how we did that.
我不知道我们是怎么做到的。
It was half a day.
这一等就是半天的时间。
She was there half a day.
她在那里呆了半天。
I did the same for Sin City, too.
我也为罪恶之城做了同样的事情。
I was like, “I have a set here, waiting for you.
我当时想，“我这里有一套，等着你。
If you’re on tour in Houston, just drive in to Austin, I’ll shoot you out in half a day.
如果你在休斯顿巡演，只要开车去奥斯汀，我半天之内就把你射出去。
You get to be in a scene with Joseph Gordon-Levitt.” “Sure.” She came down.
你可以和约瑟夫·高登-莱维特一起出演一个场景。” “当然。”她下来了。
So wait, how do you take Robert De Niro, how do you take Lady Gaga, and solve the puzzle of all the scenes they have to be in?
那么等等，你如何看待罗伯特·德尼罗、Lady Gaga，并解决他们必须出现的所有场景的谜题？
2:03:38 How do we shoot them quickly, efficiently, conveniently?
如何快速、高效、便捷地拍摄它们？
You have to edit your own movie.
你必须编辑自己的电影。
2:03:49 I have this analogy, a food analogy, that works really well.
我有一个比喻，一个食物的比喻，非常有效。
The script is like your grocery list.
脚本就像你的购物清单。
Filming is like grocery shopping.
拍戏就像买菜。
Getting the best performances, getting the best meat, getting the best ingredients.
获得最好的表演，获得最好的肉，获得最好的食材。
Right?
正确的？
Editing is like the cooking.
编辑就像做饭。
Too much of this, and not enough of that, you fuck the whole thing up.
这个太多，那个又不够，你就把整个事情搞砸了。
So, so many filmmakers do not edit, and they give it to some other guy.
所以，很多电影制片人不剪辑，而是把它交给其他人。
Who might look at all your ingredients and go, “Well, this is all great, but I’m going to go make a fucking souffle.” And he makes something else.
谁可能会看着你所有的原料然后说：“好吧，这一切都很棒，但我要做一个他妈的蛋奶酥。”他还做了别的东西。
2:04:21 So by doing that job, I mean, I’ve worked on some big stuff.
所以通过做这项工作，我的意思是，我已经做了一些大的事情。
And I realized finally, after many years, because I’ve always edited.
多年后我终于意识到，因为我一直在编辑。
I realized, “This is why movies cost so much.” There could be 150, 200 people on the crew, and I swear not one of them knows how to edit.
我意识到，“这就是电影成本如此之高的原因。”剧组可能有 150、200 人，我发誓他们没有一个人知道如何剪辑。
Not one.
没有一个。
So they’re getting the wrong stuff, they’re having to reshoot shit.
所以他们得到了错误的东西，他们不得不重新拍摄。
The editor is in a room somewhere, useless.
编辑在某个房间里，没用。
Calling after the fact, “We still need to get this close up,” or, “You got to reshoot that, because it doesn’t match,” because no one knows editing.
事后打电话说，“我们仍然需要特写，”或者，“你必须重新拍摄，因为它不匹配，”因为没有人知道编辑。
So if you just know that, you’re already miles ahead of 99% of Hollywood.
所以，如果你知道这一点，你就已经比好莱坞 99% 的人领先了很多。
But that’s just how I learn, by accident, so I kind of stumbled upon it.
但这就是我学习的方式，偶然，所以我偶然发现了它。
And I realized that’s what the problem is, because across the board I’m watching them going, “That’s not going to match.
我意识到这就是问题所在，因为我从整体上看着他们，“这不匹配。
You guys are just spending money, sending crews out, shooting stuff for this.
你们只是花钱，派工作人员出去，为此拍摄东西。
It’s a clusterfuck.
这是一团糟。
Let me show you.”
让我给你展示一下。”
2:05:14 And that’s how, in Sin City, Bruce Willis.
在《罪恶之城》中，布鲁斯·威利斯就是这样。
Nine days.
九天。
Whoa.
哇哦。
Brittany Murphy’s in all three stories.
布列塔尼·墨菲在这三个故事中都有出现。
2:05:18 One day.
一天。
Benicio del Toro, three days.
本尼西奥·德尔·托罗，三天。
It’s just like, you’re just shooting their stuff.
就像，你只是在拍摄他们的东西。
Mickey Rourke is in a sequence with Rutger Hauer.
米基·洛克与鲁特格尔·豪尔在一个镜头中。
We shot eight months apart.
我们相隔八个月拍摄。
I didn’t have Rutger Hauer until I was doing Sharkboy and Lava Girl.
在拍摄《鲨鱼男孩》和《熔岩女孩》之前，我没有鲁特格·哈尔。
So I just shot Mickey acting with me, and then I shot Rutger acting with me, and I just cut them together.
所以我就拍摄了米奇和我一起表演，然后我拍摄了罗格和我一起表演，然后我就把它们剪辑在一起。
Wow.
哇。
What’s weird is, editing exercises are like, I used to do these editing exercises where I would put two of my VCRs together, and I would cut my movies.
奇怪的是，剪辑练习就像，我过去常常做这些剪辑练习，我会把两台录像机放在一起，然后剪辑我的电影。
2:05:36 But sometimes I would just cut a music video.
但有时我会剪一段音乐视频。
And I cut a music video once, because I was a big fan of Rutger Hauer, and a big fan of Mickey Rourke.
我曾经剪辑过一段音乐视频，因为我是鲁特格尔·哈尔的忠实粉丝，也是米基·洛克的忠实粉丝。
So I said, “I want to make it look like they’re in a movie together.” So I cut this music video together, so it shows lightning on Rutger and The Hitcher, and then lightning on Mickey from Rumble Fish.
所以我说，“我想让他们看起来像是一起在电影里。”所以我把这段音乐视频剪辑在一起，显示了罗格和搭车人身上的闪电，然后是《Rumble Fish》中米奇身上的闪电。
But Rumble Fish is black and white, so I made the whole thing black and white.
但《轰隆鱼》是黑白的，所以我把整个事情变成了黑白。
I was like 19.
我当时大概19岁。
I was 19 years old when I did that.
当我这么做的时候我才 19 岁。
Wow.
哇。
And then years later, I’m making Sin City.
几年后，我正在制作《罪恶之城》。
2:06:06 I shot Mickey not knowing who the other actor was going to be until I cast him eight months later, and it was Rutger.
我拍摄米奇时并不知道另一个演员会是谁，直到八个月后我选了他，而他就是鲁特格。
I’m cutting them together to look like they’re in the same movie, and it’s in black and white.
我把它们剪辑在一起，看起来就像是在同一部电影中，而且是黑白的。
And I’m like, “I’ve done this before.
我想，“我以前做过这个。
I must have dome this before.”
我以前一定已经把这个圆顶了。”
Yeah.
是的。
“Oh my God,” I found that old video, it was like, “Oh my God, I already made a movie of them in black and white.” Now, that’s some weird shit, right?
“天哪，”我发现那个旧视频，就像，“天哪，我已经把他们拍成了黑白电影。”现在，这很奇怪，对吧？
Yeah.
是的。
That’s the magic of creativity.
这就是创造力的魔力。
2:06:26 It’s like, sometimes when you have a vision it’s not clear, but it’s coming to you from the future.
就像，有时当你有一个愿景时，它并不清晰，但它会从未来来到你身边。
So you got to just follow the voice.
所以你只能跟着声音走。
No matter what anyone says about your curtains, just follow the voice you got in your head, because you don’t know, and you’re not smart enough to know.
无论别人对你的窗帘有什么看法，只要跟随你脑海中的声音，因为你不知道，而且你不够聪明，无法知道。
And you don’t need to know.
你不需要知道。
You just need to do.
你只需要这样做。
You just need to be the hands.
你只需要成为双手。
So this is like, what you can do with no time or money, when you know all those jobs.
这就像，当你了解所有这些工作时，你不需要时间或金钱就能做些什么。
It’s the benefit of knowing those jobs.
这是了解这些工作的好处。
Like I said, the more you know those jobs, the more you know your main job.
就像我说的，你对这些工作了解得越多，你就越了解你的主要工作。
Which is being creative, on the day, thinking on your feet.
这就是在当天发挥创造力，快速思考。
2:07:03 So I’m going to show you this test.
所以我将向您展示这个测试。
Okay, so for Dusk Till Dawn, the TV series, I would always shoot the first episode and the last episode of a seven or eight episode season.
好吧，对于电视剧《杀出个黎明》，我总是会拍摄七集或八集季的第一集和最后一集。
There was three seasons.
有三个季节。
By the time we got to the third season, I was doing Alita, so I couldn’t do the big finale episode, and my actor who plays the George Clooney character, D.J.
当我们进入第三季时，我正在演《阿丽塔》，所以我无法出演大结局，而扮演乔治·克鲁尼角色的演员 D.J.
Cotrona, he’s somebody who wanted to be a writer, and was writing.
Cotrona，他是一个想成为一名作家的人，并且正在写作。
He wrote Fight and Flight, it’s this movie that’s going to come out, with Josh Hartnett.
他写了《战斗与逃跑》，这部电影即将上映，由乔什·哈奈特主演。
That’s his, he wrote it.
那是他的，他写的。
After doing this.
这样做之后。
He was like, “Man, hearing you talk, you know what?
他就像是，“伙计，听到你说话，你知道吗？
I got…” This is what I love about, you inspire people, the feedback loop inspires you back.
我得到了……”这就是我所喜欢的，你激励人们，反馈循环激励你回来。
He said, “Man, hearing in your talk for Red 11, and the cards.
他说：“伙计，听听你关于 Red 11 和牌的演讲。
I’ve got a script that’s partially written, I’m just going to go crank it out in…
我有一个部分写好的剧本，我要去把它写出来……
I’m going to cut off the phone in three days.
三天后我就要挂断电话了。
I’m going to finish that thing in three fucking days.”
我要在他妈的三天内完成那件事。”
Fuck yeah.
他妈的是的。
And he came back and he said, “I finished the script.” And I read it and I go, “You wrote it in three days?” And he goes, “Well, I wrote some it before, but I just kept thinking I wasn’t ready.
他回来后说：“我完成了剧本。”我读完后问道：“你三天内就写完了？”他说：“嗯，我以前写过一些，但我一直以为我还没有准备好。
2:07:52 And then you told me the thing about not being ready, and you said that, it really resonated.
然后你告诉我关于还没有准备好的事情，你说的，这确实引起了共鸣。
I went and I finished it in three days.” I go, “Man, I’m going to do that.
我去了，三天之内就完成了。”我说：“伙计，我会这么做的。
I’m going to go do the D.J.
我要去当 DJ。
Method.” I call it the D.J.
方法。”我称其为 D.J.
Method.
方法。
I have a bunch of half-baked ideas that I’m just going to go turn off the phone, and finish the thing in three days.
我有一堆不成熟的想法，我要关掉手机，三天内完成这件事。
And I’ll fix it later.
我稍后会修复它。
But those three days, there’s going to be pure pipe.
但这三天，将会是纯管道。
It’s just going to be coming through, because you’re just going to be picking up the pen.”
它一定会实现，因为你只是拿起了笔。”
2:08:21 So anyway, he came to me with this idea.
不管怎样，他带着这个想法来找我。
He said, “Oh man, I was hoping you’d do the last episode of Dusk Till Dawn, because I had this great idea for a scene.
他说：“天啊，我本来希望你能拍《杀出个黎明》的最后一集，因为我对一个场景有一个很棒的想法。
We’re in a zombie town, a Western town.
我们在一个僵尸小镇，一个西部小镇。
We have one of those guns where you have to pull the hammer back, before you can fire.” So I thought, “What if I have a gun that’s empty, and I got bullets in the other hand?
我们有一把这样的枪，你必须先把击锤拉回来，然后才能开火。”所以我想，“如果我手里拿着一把空枪，而另一只手上有子弹怎么办？
And I bump into a zombie, the bullets go flying, I jump and I catch all the bullets, and shoot the guy before I hit the ground.” Okay, that’s kind of a real cool, Desperado type thing.
我撞到了一个僵尸，子弹飞了起来，我跳了起来，接住了所有的子弹，并在落地之前射杀了那个家伙。”好吧，这确实是一个很酷的亡命之徒类型的事情。
But dude, this is a seven-day shoot, for these episodes.
但是老兄，这些剧集的拍摄时间是 7 天。
Everyone on the crew will have a different idea on how to do that.
剧组中的每个人对于如何做到这一点都会有不同的想法。
A stunt guy will put you on wires, because you have to do all that action.
特技演员会给你绑上电线，因为你必须完成所有动作。
2:09:01 Or, the DP isn’t even operating the camera.
或者，摄影指导甚至没有操作摄像机。
It’s a camera guy.
这是一个摄像师。
The director doesn’t know how to shoot.
导演不知道怎么拍。
He’s not operating the camera.
他没有操作相机。
Your editor is in a room somewhere.
你的编辑在某个房间里。
VFX guys aren’t there.
视觉特效人员不在那里。
You’re not going to be able to ask them how to do it.
你将无法询问他们如何做到这一点。
But I am my own VFX, I came up with how we did all the shots in Sin City, and all the Spy Kids movies.
但我是我自己的视觉特效，我想出了我们如何制作《罪恶之城》和《间谍小子》电影中的所有镜头。
“We need one guy to come do it.
“我们需要一个人来做这件事。
I’ll come do it for you.
我来帮你做。
I’ll come do it, because I’m already going to be there, because I have to shoot a second unit fight scene for the other actor who wanted a cool fight scene.” So I was already doing that.
我会来拍的，因为我已经要去那里了，因为我必须为另一个想要很酷的打斗场景的演员拍摄第二个单元打斗场景。”所以我已经这么做了。
“And when it comes to your scene, we’ll switch places, because it’s got to be done quick, because…
“当谈到你的场景时，我们会交换位置，因为它必须很快完成，因为......
You got to shoot it in 20 minutes because you got a ton of other shit you got to shoot, and you’ll just never get it.
你必须在 20 分钟内拍完它，因为你还有一大堆其他的东西要拍，但你永远也拍不到。
You won’t even get it in a film schedule, in a regular movie schedule.
你甚至不会在电影时间表、常规电影时间表中看到它。
It’s just too crazy.
这太疯狂了。
You need somebody with a vision to do the whole thing.”
你需要一个有远见的人来完成整件事。”
2:09:48 “So this is what it would look like if you were on the set.
“如果你在片场，这就是这个样子。
I’m going to show you the footage, and I’m going to show you the scene.
我要给你看录像，我要给你看场景。
I’m going to have to show it to you a couple of times, because you’re not going to believe what you’re about to see.
我必须向你展示几次，因为你不会相信你将要看到的东西。
So if you were on the set, this is what it would look like.”
所以如果你在片场的话，就会是这个样子。”
2:10:01 So I get there, they say, “We’re ready for that scene.” So I get over there to the set and I go, “Okay, where are you coming out of?” And he goes, “This building.” “Where are you getting the bullets from?” “That body.” “Okay, bring that body closer.
当我到达那里时，他们说，“我们已经准备好迎接那个场景了。”所以我到了片场然后问：“好吧，你从哪里出来？”他说：“这座大楼。” “你从哪里得到子弹？” “那个身体。” “好吧，把那个身体拉近一些。
Okay, stunt guy, bring a pad over.
好的，特技演员，拿个垫过来。
I want to see you just jump, and start to twist as if you’re turning.
我想看到你跳起来，然后开始扭转，就像你在转身一样。
I just want to see how much air time you can get to get any action in, before you hit the pad.” He starts to jump, he barely starts jumping, he’s already hitting the pad.
我只是想看看在你上场之前你能有多少空中时间来进行任何动作。”他开始跳，他几乎没有开始跳，他已经撞到了垫子上。
So I was like, “Okay, that ain’t going to work.
所以我想，“好吧，那是行不通的。
You get out of here.
你离开这里。
D.J., you’re going to do it.” I have no idea how I’m going to do this.
D.J.，你会做到的。”我不知道该怎么做。
I hadn’t thought about it before, but now you’re there-
我以前没有想过，但现在你在那里——
This is so awesome.
这太棒了。
…
……
2:10:32 and now the options are very limited.
现在的选择非常有限。
You’re very limited.
你的能力非常有限。
Look at the sun.
看看太阳。
You’re going to see the sun not move.
你会看到太阳不动。
You see, that’s the point where the sun starts getting lost.
你看，这就是太阳开始消失的时刻。
I have to shoot this in 20 minutes.
我得在 20 分钟内拍完这个。
“You’re going to do three jumps, and I’m going to cut it to look like one jump.
“你要做三跳，我会把它剪成跳一跳的样子。
All the bullets are going to miss, only one’s going to go in.
所有的子弹都会打偏，只有一颗子弹会射进去。
So here, just follow what I’m saying, because we don’t have time.
所以在这里，就按照我说的去做，因为我们没有时间。
What cameras do we have?
我们有什么相机？
What’s on the A camera?” “A long lens.” “Oh yeah, that’s my camera.
A相机上有什么？” “长镜头。” “哦，是的，那是我的相机。
I’ll operate that.
我来操作一下。
What’s on the B camera?” “Steady campaign.” “Leave it on steady cam.
B 摄像机上有什么？” “竞选活动稳步进行。” “将其放在稳定的凸轮上。
No chance, no time to fucking convert it.”
没有机会，没有时间去他妈的转换它。”
2:11:00 At one point, I wanted to lower it so, “Just flip it upside down.
有一次，我想降低它，所以，“把它倒过来。
We’ll flop it later.
我们稍后会失败。
Give me the main camera.
给我主摄像头。
Okay, D.J., start running towards that bullets, and grab it, and pretend like it gets shot out of your hand.” I shoot it in a slow motion, but I’m showing you how it would look on the set.
好吧，D.J.，开始跑向那颗子弹，抓住它，假装它是从你手中射出来的。”我以慢动作拍摄，但我向你展示它在片场的样子。
Okay, now the bullets are flying.
好吧，现在子弹已经飞起来了。
Now I’m going to add those digitally, and I’m going to hold the bullets up to the light in each angle, so that they know what it’s supposed to look like, so they can match that.
现在我将以数字方式添加这些，并且我将把子弹放在每个角度的光线下，这样他们就知道它应该是什么样子，这样他们就可以匹配它。
Otherwise it’ll look phony.
不然会显得很假。
2:11:23 “Now, first jump, I just want you to commit to just jumping out, and just look at the barrel.
“现在，第一次跳，我只想让你承诺跳出去，看看桶。
Just look at the barrel on your hands, when you’re jumping, because that’ll look like you’re looking at the bullets.
当你跳跃时，只需看看你手上的枪管，因为那样看起来就像你在看子弹。
And just don’t even think about that you’re going to catch a bullet, don’t think about that you’re going to start turning.
甚至不要想你会中弹，也不要想你会开始转身。
Just stretch your body out.
只要伸展你的身体就可以了。
Get a really graphic…” Look how cool that looks.
得到一个真正的图形......”看看这看起来多么酷。
Yeah.
是的。
And then the side view, shot this at the same time.
然后是侧视图，同时拍的。
2:11:46 You can already tell it’s going to look like bullets are missing, right?
你已经可以看出它看起来像是子弹不见了，对吧？
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Okay.
好的。
2:11:55 Now I need this part, though.
不过现在我需要这部分。
I need the part where he’s catching the bullet, this little window there.
我需要他接子弹的部分，那里的小窗户。
How am I going to do that?
我该怎么做呢？
With a lens that long, it’s going to be all out of focus.
镜头那么长，一切都会失焦。
It’s not going to be slow motion enough.
慢动作还不够。
He even knows me, and he’s like, “What the hell am I doing?” So, “Just lay on the pad, and rock up and down.
他甚至认识我，他就像，“我到底在做什么？”所以，“只需躺在垫子上，上下摇晃即可。
And as you’re coming down, that’ll look like you’re falling, as I’m zooming in.” Because I’m operating the camera, and I’m cutting this in my head.
当你下降时，当我放大时，看起来就像你正在下降。”因为我正在操作相机，并且我正在将其切入脑海。
And I’m saying, “Just do it again.” He’s like, “What is it?” “Rock up, and then as you go down, it’s going to look like you’re falling-“
我说：“再做一次。”他说：“这是什么？” “向上摇晃，然后当你下降时，看起来就像你正在坠落——”
Well done.
干得好。
…
……
2:12:27 and make it look like the bullets.
并使其看起来像子弹。
Okay?
好吧？
So now-
所以现在——
Well done.
干得好。
…
……
2:12:29 “you’ve caught a bullet.
“你中了一颗子弹。
One went in.”
一个进去了。”
Yep.
是的。
“Now, second jump.
“现在，第二次跳跃。
2:12:31 When you do the next jump, as if we just passed those other moments, you’ve caught a bullet already.
当你进行下一次跳跃时，就好像我们刚刚度过了那些其他时刻一样，你已经中弹了。
So now you’re going to snap it closed.
所以现在你要把它关上。
And start your turn, it’s all you’ll get before you hit the pad.” Snap, turn, right?
开始你的回合，这就是你在击球台之前所得到的一切。”扣、转，对吗？
So like, “Okay, I want the cameras to feel like they’re dropping with him, that’ll give you more of the sensation.
就像，“好吧，我希望摄影机感觉像是和他一起掉落，这会给你更多的感觉。
So let’s actually lower that steady cam shot, flip it upside down, and get a low angle.”
因此，让我们实际上降低稳定的凸轮镜头，将其颠倒过来，并获得一个低角度。”
2:12:55 See, I look and the sun’s right there, hasn’t gone behind the building yet.
瞧，我一看，太阳就在那里，还没落到大楼后面。
That, and then my camera, I lowered my camera down, and I got that.
那，然后是我的相机，我放下相机，然后我明白了。
Good angle, good angle.
角度好，角度好。
Right?
对吗？
2:13:03 Okay, now, last jump.
好的，现在，最后一跳。
I bury a thin…
我埋了一个薄薄的…
I said, “Just bring me a thin mattress,” because I want him to do all the stunts.
我说，“给我拿一张薄床垫吧”，因为我想让他完成所有的特技。
I don’t want a stunt guy.
我不想要一个特技演员。
Because he does this, himself.
因为这是他自己做的。
He just did it in three jumps.
他只用了三跳就做到了。
But the audience won’t know.
但观众不会知道。
They’ll just be like, “We believe that this guy could do anything.”
他们会说，“我们相信这个人可以做任何事情。”
2:13:18 “I want you just to finish by turning, and cocking the hammer back, and firing before you hit the ground.” I’ll give you two takes for that.
“我希望你在落地之前先转身，将击锤向后扳动，然后开火。”我会给你两个建议。
Almost gets it there, and then we do a second take.
差不多就到了，然后我们进行第二次拍摄。
Boom.
繁荣。
Nah, the other one was probably a little better, even though you don’t really see it.
不，另一个可能好一点，尽管你没有真正看到它。
I’ve got to go do everything now.
我现在必须去做所有的事情了。
I got to cut it.
我得把它剪掉。
I got to add the sound effects myself, I got to put the music in myself, because music guys would just end up filling it with music and ruin it.
我必须自己添加音效，我必须自己添加音乐，因为音乐人最终只会用音乐填充它并毁掉它。
Sound effects guys would just fill it full of sound effects, and ruin it.
音效人员只会用音效填充它，然后毁掉它。
I want all the sound to drop out, so as he’s jumping, all you hear is the wind in his jacket, the clinking of the bullets as they’re bouncing off.
我希望所有的声音都消失，所以当他跳跃时，你只能听到他夹克里的风声，以及子弹弹开时的叮当声。
So you have this breathless moment, no music, cut the music.
所以你有这个喘不过气来的时刻，没有音乐，关掉音乐。
And that moment you cut it, so that you’re like, “I wonder if he’s going to make it,” right?
当你剪掉它的那一刻，你就会想，“我想知道他是否能成功，”对吗？
2:14:02 So I go home, I cut it.
所以我回家了，我把它剪掉了。
Before I even have the visual effects in, I just cut it that night, because I cut my own sound effects.
在我制作视觉效果之前，我那天晚上就把它剪掉了，因为我剪掉了自己的音效。
I cut my sound effects in.
我把音效剪掉了。
You can already tell it’s going to work.
你已经可以知道它会起作用。
You can already see, even with the bullets not there, you can tell by the sound where they’re going to be.
你已经可以看到，即使子弹不在那里，你也可以通过声音知道它们将在哪里。
It’s going to work.
它会起作用的。
I call them up and said, “Dude, this is going to work great.”
我打电话给他们说：“伙计，这会很有效。”
2:14:20 So then I go to the effects guys and I go, “Okay, there’s the bullet in this frame, and the next frame is here,” because I used to animate.
然后我去找特效人员，“好吧，这一帧中有子弹，下一帧就在这里，”因为我以前做过动画。
“And the next frame, it’s there.
“下一帧就在那里。
Then it hits the barrel, and then it starts bouncing this way.
然后它撞到桶上，然后开始这样弹跳。
I want it that clear so we can follow that a bullet was supposed to go in, and that it bounced way over there.
我希望它说得这么清楚，这样我们就可以知道一颗子弹应该射进去，然后它弹到那里。
And then this bullet bounced way over there.” And they send it back, and a bunch of bullets come down.
然后这颗子弹就弹到了那边。”然后他们把它发回来，一堆子弹落下来。
“No, guys, listen to what I say.
“不，伙计们，听我说。
I’m going to show you again.
我将再次向您展示。
I’m going to draw it to you again.
我再把它画给你看。
Just the sound will play like there’s multiple bullets flying.
只是声音会像多颗子弹飞来一样。
I don’t need to see all those bullets, or the eye’s not going to know where to go.” So then they got it right-
我不需要看到那么多子弹，否则眼睛不知道该往哪里看。”那么他们就做对了——
Brilliant.
太棒了。
…
……
2:14:52 and then, check this out.
然后，检查一下。
I’m going to show it to you twice, because you’re not going to believe it.
我要给你看两次，因为你不会相信。
Wow.
哇。
Changes direction.
改变方向。
Wow.
哇。
2:15:13 Wow.
哇。
Crazy.
疯了。
2:15:18 You know-
你知道-
Well done.
干得好。
You don’t even see that in a feature film, much less a TV show.
你甚至在故事片中都看不到这一点，更不用说电视节目了。
Well done.
干得好。
2:15:23 Just as a director, well done.
作为一个导演，已经做得很好了。
Oh, thank you.
哦，谢谢。
2:15:25 Here.
在这里。
Just, one more time.
只是，再一次。
Well done.
干得好。
And I’ll show you something you didn’t notice, both times.
我会向你展示一些你两次都没有注意到的东西。
Just amazing.
太棒了。
2:15:36 Just those decisions coming together perfectly, it’s just-
这些决定完美地结合在一起，就是——
Coming together-
齐聚一堂——
…
……
2:15:53 really well done.
真的做得很好。
…
……
2:15:54 and like this, you got minutes.
像这样，你就有几分钟的时间。
Just moving the camera you decided to do, really worked really well.
只要移动你决定做的相机，效果就非常好。
2:15:55 The bouncing of the mattress, whatever, that worked well.
不管怎样，床垫的弹跳效果很好。
And it’s not like you have this whole plan figured out ahead.
而且你并没有提前想好整个计划。
2:16:01 You’re literally, in the moment, it’s coming through.
从字面上看，在那一刻，它正在发生。
But you’re seeing it, though-
但你也看到了——
It’s coming through you.
它通过你而来。
…
……
2:16:06 right?
对吗？
In your head.
在你的脑海里。
I’m seeing it because I’ve done it enough.
我看到它是因为我已经做得足够多了。
2:16:07 That’s why, you really want to learn all those jobs, because you come to a moment like this when the shit’s fucking hitting the fan, you got to know how to pull it out.
这就是为什么，你真的很想学习所有这些工作，因为当你遇到这样的时刻，当狗屎他妈的撞到风扇时，你必须知道如何把它拉出来。
You could have gotten all those people together, and they never would have figured that out.
你本可以把所有这些人聚集在一起，但他们永远不会明白这一点。
One person had to see it all the way through.
一个人必须从头到尾看到这一点。
You’re seeing the bullet, how it’s going to go in the result.
你会看到子弹，它会如何进入结果。
I’ve done enough times to know that if you don’t do it just right, you’re going to lose the image.
我已经做过很多次了，我知道如果你做得不好，你就会失去形象。
2:16:24 You’re not going to know where to follow, and you’ll miss the point.
你不会知道该往哪里走，而且你会错过重点。
And also, yeah.
还有，是的。
2:16:31 I love that you’re thinking about where the eyes of the audience will go.
我喜欢你思考观众的目光会投向哪里。
I feel like too many people might think about some more general concept of a scene, versus the audience, where’s their eye?
我觉得太多人可能会考虑场景的一些更一般的概念，相对于观众，他们的眼睛在哪里？
Where’s their eye?
他们的眼睛在哪里？
2:16:47 Well, you’re drawing it through sound, through picture.
嗯，你是通过声音、图像来绘制它的。
I’m going to show you, if you notice, without the sound.
如果你注意到的话，我将在没有声音的情况下向你展示。
You don’t really see him click that thing back.
你并没有真正看到他点击那个东西回来。
Watch.
观看。
The sound is so essential here, right?
声音在这里非常重要，对吧？
Watch this.
注意这个。
2:16:57 You don’t really-
你真的不-
Right.
对。
2:16:59 I thought I saw it.
我以为我看到了。
You think you saw it, but you hear it, and so you feel like you see it.
你以为你看到了它，但你听到了它，所以你感觉你看到了它。
2:17:00 But watch it.
但请注意。
It’s actually, he’s already finished.
事实上，他已经完成了。
You don’t really see him do it, but you swear you saw it in a close-up, because the sound is in a close-up.
你并没有真正看到他这样做，但你发誓你在特写镜头中看到了它，因为声音是在特写镜头中。
I put the sound in a close-up.
我把声音放在特写镜头中。
2:17:12 Now here’s another thing you didn’t notice.
现在还有另一件事你没有注意到。
He hits this ground in the first shot.
他第一枪就击中了这片土地。
Watch.
观看。
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八。
You didn’t even notice it, because I didn’t play the sound there.
你甚至没有注意到它，因为我没有在那里播放声音。
So if you don’t hear it, you don’t see it.
所以如果你没有听到它，你就看不到它。
And if you don’t see it, but you play a sound, you hear it.
如果您看不到它，但您播放声音，您就会听到它。
And you see it in your mind, right?
你心里也明白这一点，对吗？
So check that out now, with the sound on, and you’ll see both those parts play completely different now.
所以现在打开声音来检查一下，你会发现这两个部分现在的演奏完全不同了。
2:17:43 Right.
对。
Now you hear it.
现在你听到了。
Right, see?
对吧，看到了吗？
Like, I know you can get away with that, because I know editing.
就像，我知道你可以逃脱惩罚，因为我知道编辑。
And if I don’t play the sound, I can go ahead and milk that shot as long as I want.
如果我不播放声音，我可以继续并根据需要对镜头进行挤奶。
I’ll make him be in the air longer, even though he’s actually touching the ground, by not playing the sound.
即使他实际上接触地面，我也会通过不播放声音来让他在空中停留更长时间。
And that comes from, you said directing, but it’s not.
这来自于你说的导演，但事实并非如此。
Directing, people can direct and say, “This is what I want.” But to actually execute it, you need to be a craftsman.
指挥，人们可以指挥并说：“这就是我想要的。”但要真正执行它，你需要成为一名工匠。
And to be a craftsman, you have to learn all those crafts.
要成为一名工匠，你必须学习所有这些手艺。
And not just with the visuals, but with the sound.
不仅是视觉效果，还有声音。
With the sound, too.
也有声音。
Sound.
声音。
Sound is so important.
声音是如此重要。
2:18:13 Sound is half the picture.
声音是图像的一半。
And if you cut sound, you realize how important sound is.
如果你削减声音，你就会意识到声音是多么重要。
I would learn so much by doing those movies like Desperado, action movies where you go, “Wow, the sound.
通过拍摄像《亡命之徒》这样的动作片，我会学到很多东西，“哇，声音。
I can add an extra sound effect of an extra punch he didn’t even throw.” And it sounds like he’s beating the shit out of this guy.
我可以添加他甚至没有打出的额外一拳的额外音效。”听起来他正在把这个家伙痛打一顿。
And you only need to see one or two hits, and you can hear five.
你只需要看到一两次点击，你就能听到五次。
You know where you can push your limits, because you’ve done it.
你知道在哪里可以突破自己的极限，因为你已经做到了。
You’ve done it, and you’ve got the experience.
你已经做到了，并且你已经获得了经验。
It’s so amazing that you can use sound to make a person believe they saw something that wasn’t actually there on the screen.
令人惊奇的是，你可以使用声音让人们相信他们看到了屏幕上实际上并不存在的东西。
Yeah, your brain fills it in.
是的，你的大脑已经把它填满了。
That’s crazy.
这太疯狂了。
And that’s why that’s so important, because if you don’t know that, you’ll be on the set shooting 10 takes of that.
这就是为什么这如此重要，因为如果你不知道这一点，你就会在片场拍摄 10 次。
2:18:47 Because you’re like, “No, he didn’t, I didn’t see him click it back.
因为你会说，“不，他没有，我没有看到他点击回来。
I didn’t see him click it back.
我没有看到他点击回来。
That’s really needed.” “I can do that with sound.
这确实是需要的。” “我可以用声音做到这一点。
Let’s just go.
我们走吧。
Let’s just keep moving.”
让我们继续前进吧。”
And when you say sound close up, what does that mean?
当你说声音近距离时，这是什么意思？
2:19:01 So like, is that-
那么就像是——
So all the other sound dropped away, and all you hear is, like the mic’s right on that thing.
所以所有其他声音都消失了，你听到的只是，就像麦克风就在那个东西上一样。
2:19:04 So that you hear it so big in your ear, that you swear it was in close up too, but just the sound was close up.
这样你就可以在耳边听到它的声音，你发誓它也是近距离的，但只是声音是近距离的。
Sorry, just to give an insight into that process of sound design.
抱歉，只是为了深入了解声音设计的过程。
2:19:16 Are you listening to the sound, and just experiencing the feeling that creates, and then you’re like, “That’s just right”?
您是否在聆听声音，只是体验所产生的感觉，然后您会想，“那就对了”？
I’m playing in post a lot, so I have a whole library of sound effects from all my movies.
我经常在后期玩游戏，所以我有一个完整的音效库，来自我所有的电影。
2:19:29 So I can pull up the gun sound we created for Bruce Willis in Sin City and use that, and mix it with Antonio’s gun from Desperado.
所以我可以调出我们为《罪恶之城》中的布鲁斯·威利斯创建的枪声并使用它，并将其与《亡命之徒》中安东尼奥的枪混合起来。
I remember in Four Rooms, there’s a scene where the bellhop goes into the hotel room.
我记得《四个房间》里有一个场景，服务员走进酒店房间。
Jams his key into it, and clicks it.
将钥匙插入其中，然后点击它。
And I used all gun sounds for the sounds of the key, instead of key sounds, because it wasn’t sound closeup enough.
我使用所有枪声作为按键声音，而不是按键声音，因为声音不够特写。
So if you listen to it, you hear…
所以如果你听它，你会听到……
You hear all these sounds from a gun, to do the key, because that conveys the sound better.
你可以听到枪发出的所有这些声音，然后进行调音，因为这样可以更好地传达声音。
I’ll use different kinds of sounds that just have impact.
我将使用具有影响力的不同类型的声音。
2:20:00 Because it’s like that conveys the sound better.
因为这样可以更好地传达声音。
I’ll use different kinds of sounds that just have impact and put it somewhere like when he hits the ground.
我会使用不同种类的、具有影响力的声音，并将其放置在某个地方，比如他落地时的声音。
So I like playing with all that in post when I’m editing because it makes my editing job easier.
所以我喜欢在编辑时在后期处理所有这些内容，因为这让我的编辑工作变得更容易。
Sometimes it’s like, oh, the sound is covering me.
有时就像，哦，声音覆盖了我。
I don’t need to keep trying to massage this.
我不需要一直尝试按摩这个。
The sound is actually selling it, and so I keep those sound effects into the final movie.
声音实际上是在推销它，所以我将这些音效保留在最终的电影中。
So it’s just all part necessary.
所以这只是必要的部分。
It’s like being a chef.
这就像当一名厨师。
You’re there cooking and you’re going, I know the recipe says this, but I think it really could use jalapenos and some extra pepper and maybe a little more salt and then needs an acid of some kind so I’m going to add some lemon juice.
你在那里做饭，你要去，我知道食谱上是这么说的，但我认为它真的可以使用墨西哥胡椒和一些额外的胡椒，也许还有一点盐，然后需要某种酸，所以我要加一些柠檬汁。
Yeah, you made me realize, I’m not sure where I saw that, but you were talking about making sort of almost home films for fun and I think you mentioned how exciting you can make a very mundane scene by just adding sound.
是的，你让我意识到，我不知道我在哪里看到的，但你在谈论制作一种几乎是家庭电影的乐趣，我想你提到了你可以通过添加声音来制作一个非常平凡的场景是多么令人兴奋。
2:20:35 I think there was-
我认为有——
My little kid with his car.
我的小孩和他的车。
2:20:49 He had one of those little [inaudible 02:20:53] but I added a motor sound to it and it’s like, wow.
他有一个这样的小东西[听不清 02:20:53]，但我给它添加了一个电机声音，就像，哇。
And it sounds realistic somehow.
不知怎的，这听起来很现实。
2:20:56 I don’t understand why my brain is doing that.
我不明白为什么我的大脑会这样做。
And then we’re playing with these little cars, filming ourselves playing with the cars.
然后我们就玩这些小汽车，拍摄自己玩这些小汽车的过程。
2:20:59 But then I replaced it with real car sounds [inaudible 02:21:08] and it just, your brain links the reality of the real thing and you realize how unimportant the visual is and how important the sound is actually.
但后来我用真实的汽车声音替换了它[听不清02:21:08]，你的大脑将真实事物的现实联系起来，你意识到视觉是多么不重要，而声音实际上是多么重要。
Sound is everything.
声音就是一切。
That’s what I was really lucky in Mariachi that my camera didn’t work for sound because then I got really good sound that I would’ve gotten with a shitty mic out of frame.
这就是我在《流浪乐队》中真正幸运的地方，因为我的相机不能用于声音，因为这样我就得到了非常好的声音，这是我用一个糟糕的麦克风在画框之外得到的。
Because that’s the first telltale sign of a low budget movie is bad sound.
因为低预算电影的第一个明显迹象就是糟糕的声音。
Bad sound right away, you can already hear all this hiss and all this mic was too far and you’re like low budget movie.
声音马上就很糟糕，你已经可以听到所有这些嘶嘶声，所有这些麦克风都太远了，你就像低预算电影一样。
Before your eyes even tell you, the sound gives it away.
在你的眼睛告诉你之前，声音就已经告诉你了。
Isn’t that amazing?
这不是很神奇吗？
The audio is first.
音频是第一位的。
2:21:39 Sound is first really, even though it’s a visual medium.
声音确实是第一位的，尽管它是一种视觉媒介。
That’s so crazy.
太疯狂了。
Just what’s the plan with the four action films?
这四部动作片的计划是什么？
What are the next steps?
接下来的步骤是什么？
I’ll probably direct more than one because there’s already several that I want to do, but I’m going to direct at least one, but I’m producing all three, all four there at my studio.
我可能会导演不止一部，因为我已经想做几部了，但我会导演至少一部，但我正在我的工作室制作所有三部、全部四部。
It does draw you in.
它确实吸引你。
It draws you in and it makes you go now think of ideas you never would’ve thought of for mainly because it has a filter.
它吸引你，让你现在开始思考你从未想过的想法，主要是因为它有一个过滤器。
2:22:02 Well, now I don’t have to think of all these ideas.
好吧，现在我不必考虑所有这些想法了。
I actually have, like me on that set, there’s only very few things I can actually come up with that are just action driven first, when they have a great character.
事实上，就像我在片场一样，当他们有一个伟大的角色时，我实际上能想出的东西很少是首先由动作驱动的。
You’ll get to it a lot faster with a filter.
使用过滤器你会更快地找到它。
That’s the beauty of a filter is that now you’ve just shrunk your target and now you can hit that target and people are coming up with ideas because now they’ve got proximity and they’ve got a reason to come up with the idea and they’ve got a deadline, which is the best thing you can do is have a deadline because when you have a deadline, you can freaking move mountains.
过滤器的美妙之处在于，现在你已经缩小了你的目标，现在你可以达到这个目标，人们会提出想法，因为现在他们已经接近了，他们有理由提出这个想法，他们有一个最后期限，这是你能做的最好的事情就是有一个最后期限，因为当你有最后期限时，你可以移山。
2:22:41 I had a Spy Kids in the theater every year, three years in a row not being pre-planned.
我每年都会在剧院里看到《小间谍》，连续三年都没有预先计划。
Every year there was a Spy Kids.
每年都会有一个小间谍。
Now the third one was the biggest one, biggest cast, mostly green screen, video game and the first digital 3D movie ever.
现在第三部是最大的一部，演员阵容最大，主要是绿屏、视频游戏和有史以来第一部数字 3D 电影。
So getting visual effects companies to make that, we realized, oh, I shot it with two cameras.
所以让视觉效果公司来制作这个，我们意识到，哦，我用两个摄像机拍摄的。
That means each effect shot has to be done twice from a different angle.
这意味着每个效果镜头都必须从不同的角度进行两次。
So I went to the studio midway through that and said, “There’s not going to be a movie in the theaters in time.
所以我中途去了工作室并说：“电影院不会及时上映电影。
You’re going to have to push the date back.” And they said, “Okay, we’ve never heard you panic.
你将不得不推迟日期。”他们说：“好吧，我们从来没有听说过你惊慌。
We’ll push the date back for you.” They called back 10 minutes later.
我们会为您推迟日期。” 10 分钟后他们回电。
I was like, oh, thank God.
我当时想，哦，感谢上帝。
Because it’s really complicated.
因为它真的很复杂。
I didn’t know it was going to be this complicated, but I wanted a challenge.
我不知道事情会这么复杂，但我想要挑战。
2:23:25 And they said, McDonald’s will sue us for $20 million if you move the date.
他们说，如果你改变日期，麦当劳将起诉我们，赔偿 2000 万美元。
You have to have a movie in the theater.
你必须在剧院看电影。
We started shooting that movie in January of 2003.
我们于 2003 年 1 月开始拍摄那部电影。
It was in 3D in theaters by July.
7 月份，该片以 3D 形式在影院上映。
That’s the fastest any effects movie has ever been done.
这是有史以来最快的特效电影。
That’s insane.
这太疯狂了。
Because you had no choice.
因为你别无选择。
2:23:43 So deadline makes you do things and make decisions really quickly and it was the biggest of the three.
因此，截止日期让你很快做事并做出决定，这是三者中最大的一个。
Deadlines are good and it’s hard for us to self-impose a deadline sometimes because we know it’s a bullshit deadline and your brain knows it’s bullshit.
截止日期是好的，但有时我们很难给自己设定一个截止日期，因为我们知道这是一个狗屎的最后期限，而且你的大脑也知道这是狗屎。
But why do deadlines work?
但为什么最后期限会起作用呢？
Because when the deadline’s coming up, what do you do?
因为当截止日期临近时，你会做什么？
You start to put the pen to the paper and it starts just flowing.
你开始把笔放在纸上，它开始流动。
You have no choice.
你别无选择。
2:24:09 You have to get out of the way and open the pipe and it just comes out and you’re shocked.
你必须让开，打开管道，它就会出来，你会感到震惊。
You’re like, oh my God, I should do everything at the last minute.
你会想，天哪，我应该在最后一刻做所有事情。
Well, no, you don’t have to.
好吧，不，你不必这样做。
But if you just learn how to open that pipe earlier, you wouldn’t be in a rush, but you had to get out of your way because your deadline was up and you had to come up with it.
但如果你早点学会如何打开那个管道，你就不会着急，但你必须让开，因为你的截止日期已经到了，你必须想出办法。
So many people are going to come up with all these extra great ideas at the last minute.
很多人都会在最后一刻想出所有这些额外的好主意。
It looks like everyone who’s already signing on because it’s cool they don’t know when the deadline is.
看起来每个人都已经签约了，因为他们不知道截止日期是什么时候，这很酷。
They keep writing in saying, when is the deadline for this?
他们一直写信说，截止日期是什么时候？
And we say, well, when we close the funding in May, but we didn’t say when still.
我们说，好吧，当我们在五月份结束融资时，但我们没有说何时结束。
So I think that gives them a sense of a deadline like shit, it might be May 1st or maybe May 2nd, so we better get my idea going.
所以我认为这给了他们一种截止日期的感觉，可能是 5 月 1 日，也可能是 5 月 2 日，所以我们最好把我的想法付诸实践。
2:24:52 So I think that works in your favor because then you come up with stuff.
所以我认为这对你有利，因为这样你就会想出一些东西。
And you’re going to feel so enriched by doing the idea that you’re not going to care if it gets picked or not.
通过实现这个想法，你会感到非常充实，你不会关心它是否被选中。
You’re going to love this idea so much it could turn into 10 other things you never even thought about.
你会非常喜欢这个想法，它可能会变成其他 10 件你从未想过的事情。
That’s the beauty of doing a project.
这就是做项目的美妙之处。
Nothing ever goes to waste.
没有什么会被浪费。
So many ideas that were sitting around that I’d come up with and put a lot of time in are now like, oh, I can do these now.
我曾经想出并投入大量时间的许多想法现在就像，哦，我现在可以做到这些。
I know how to finish it now.
我现在知道如何完成它了。
I have to ask you about Alita.
我得问你关于阿丽塔的事
2:25:17 So you’ve done so many incredibly innovative projects.
所以你已经完成了很多令人难以置信的创新项目。
This is one of them.
这是其中之一。
It turned out to be this visual masterpiece.
事实证明这是这个视觉杰作。
There’s a bunch of complexity, beautiful complexity about it in that it started out as a film that James Cameron was supposed to make.
它有很多复杂性，非常复杂，因为它最初是詹姆斯·卡梅隆应该拍的一部电影。
And then you started to collaborate with him on it.
然后你开始与他合作。
And then these two, I would say brilliant directors, but with different styles like you were talking about.
然后这两位，我想说的是出色的导演，但风格不同，就像你所说的那样。
And so plus there’s the complexity of for people who haven’t seen it, you’re putting this artificial creation, this beautiful photorealistic, artificial creation of a human being into a real world.
因此，对于那些没有看过它的人来说，还有一个复杂性，就是你要把这个人造的创造物，这个美丽的、逼真的、人造的人类创造物放入现实世界中。
So you have to capture the performance, not just the motion, but the performance of this actor, put them into this, with the power of technology, into the real world.
所以你必须捕捉表演，不仅仅是动作，而是演员的表演，利用技术的力量，将它们放入现实世界。
So convey all the emotion, the richness of the human face.
因此传达所有的情感，人脸的丰富性。
Can you just speak to the process of bringing that world to life?
您能谈谈让这个世界变得栩栩如生的过程吗？
Sure.
当然。
2:26:11 I mean, one, I never would’ve attempted if it wasn’t Jim, because Jim has figured all of this out.
我的意思是，第一，如果不是吉姆，我永远不会尝试，因为吉姆已经弄清楚了这一切。
So just to get you again, remember like I said, “Hey Jim, I’m operating a steady cam, what do you think of that?” “Well, I’m designing a new system.” That’s always how it is between him and I.
所以，再次提醒您，请记住就像我说的那样，“嘿吉姆，我正在操作一个稳定的摄像头，您对此有何看法？” “嗯，我正在设计一个新系统。”我和他之间一直都是这样。
So when I went to show him Desperado when it was done, he said, “You might not want to sit through, if you don’t want to sit through it while I’m watching it, it’s fine.
所以当我去给他看《亡命之徒》的时候，他说，“你可能不想坐下来，如果你不想在我看的时候坐下来，那也没关系。
Do you want to read any of my scriptments, my treatment scripts?” They’re called scriptments.
你想看我的剧本，我的治疗剧本吗？”它们被称为脚本。
Sure.
当然。
He goes, “I have Spider-Man and I got Avatar.” So this was in ’95.
他说：“我有蜘蛛侠，我有阿凡达。”这是95年的事。
He was showing me the scriptment for Avatar, which there was no technology for that.
他正在给我看《阿凡达》的剧本，当时没有技术支持。
He was already doing stuff that didn’t exist.
他已经在做一些不存在的事情了。
And I was reading it going, this is a great story.
我正在读它，这是一个很棒的故事。
2:26:55 He was like, I don’t know how the fuck he’s going to do this.
他说，我他妈的不知道他要怎么做。
It’s impossible.
这是不可能的。
He’d just done Terminator 2 a few years before.
几年前他刚刚完成了《终结者2》。
It’s like that was state of the art.
就好像那是最先进的。
So Alita was going to be the movie he did first to prepare for Avatar.
所以阿丽塔将成为他为《阿凡达》做准备的第一部电影。
And so he had already done some prep work on it.
所以他已经做了一些准备工作。
It was based on a manga.
它是根据漫画改编的。
But before they did that, they just started doing some tests for Avatar.
但在此之前，他们刚刚开始对《阿凡达》进行一些测试。
And then as they got deeper into the test for Avatar to prepare for Alita, they went, I guess we’re making Avatar first.
然后，当他们更深入地进行《阿凡达》的测试，为《阿丽塔》做准备时，他们说，我想我们首先要制作《阿凡达》。
So Alita got kind of pushed to the side and they ended up doing it, which ended up becoming such a journey to make that movie, to get the technology to build it, to make it, because I remember visiting him on the set.
所以阿丽塔有点被推到了一边，他们最终还是这么做了，这最终变成了制作那部电影的旅程，获得构建它的技术，制作它，因为我记得在片场拜访过他。
2:27:35 I mean I’ve known him so long.
我的意思是我认识他很久了。
I was on the set of Titanic.
我在《泰坦尼克号》的片场。
That’s how long I’ve been around this guy.
这就是我和这个家伙相处的时间。
I was on the set of Titanic.
我在《泰坦尼克号》的片场。
I was on the set with Sarah Connor and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Eddie Furlong for the 3D ride he made for Universal a few years later.
几年后，我与莎拉·康纳、阿诺德·施瓦辛格和埃迪·弗隆一起在片场拍摄他为环球影业制作的 3D 游乐设施。
So I mean I feel like I’ve been around him a lot of his career.
所以我的意思是，我觉得在他职业生涯的大部分时间里我都在他身边。
2:27:53 And to be able to visit the set of Avatar and remember him showing me artwork they did, very photorealistic and he goes, “Curious to see how photo-real it will be when we’re finally done with this process.” Because you don’t get to see it until it’s almost done.
为了能够参观《阿凡达》的拍摄现场，并记得他向我展示了他们制作的艺术作品，非常逼真，他说，“很好奇，当我们最终完成这个过程时，它会变得多么逼真。”因为直到它快完成时你才能看到它。
And I was like, wow.
我当时想，哇。
He’s just shooting blind.
他只是盲目射击。
Talk about me shooting Mariachi, not seeing the footage.
谈论我拍摄墨西哥流浪乐队，但没有看到录像。
He’s making this whole movie, not even knowing what the end result’s going to look like at all.
他正在制作整部电影，甚至根本不知道最终结果会是什么样子。
Because you’re not going to know till you get there.
因为在你到达那里之前你不会知道。
And when you get there, if you don’t like it, there’s not a lot you can do.
当你到达那里时，如果你不喜欢它，你就无能为力。
2:28:26 So just seeing him do that and have that success really made it easier for me to do Alita because then it’s like, okay, we don’t know.
所以，看到他这么做并取得成功，真的让我更容易扮演《阿丽塔》，因为那样的话，好吧，我们不知道。
Again, we don’t need to know.
再说一遍，我们不需要知道。
We know we’ll get there, but we don’t know how we’re going to do it.
我们知道我们会到达那里，但我们不知道如何做到。
We’re going to start.
我们要开始了。
And anything that I would come up with on this movie and his team, because he had all his Weta people working on it.
以及我在这部电影和他的团队中想出的任何想法，因为他让所有维塔员工都在致力于这件事。
He had them all working on it, too.
他也让他们都在努力。
I do a fast version of his process because a lot of live action.
我做了一个他的过程的快速版本，因为有很多真人表演。
Avatar is mostly CG.
阿凡达主要是CG。
I have live action sets.
我有真人表演集。
You have to come to my studio.
你一定要来我的工作室。
I still have the whole Alita city in my back lot.
我的后院仍然拥有整个阿丽塔市。
Well here, the Troublemaker studio?
那么这里是麻烦制造者工作室吗？
Yeah.
是的。
That’s where it was-
原来是这样——
Yeah, it was shot here.
是的，就是在这里拍的。
2:29:01 So when you go see my city, I built it very resourceful.
所以当你去看我的城市时，我把它建造得非常足智多谋。
This is weird.
这很奇怪。
It looks just like the town from Mariachi, but it’s in my backyard.
它看起来就像墨西哥流浪乐队中的小镇，但它在我的后院。
I’m like, it looks better than the town from Mariachi.
我想，它看起来比墨西哥流浪乐队的小镇更好。
90,000.
90,000。
It’s the biggest, largest standing set in the country because sets are always mowed down for the next movie.
这是该国最大、最大的常备布景，因为布景总是被砍掉以备下一部电影使用。
But I just kept it there.
但我只是把它留在那里。
So we usually to shoot it all the time for Mexico or South America or Europe or whatever.
所以我们通常会一直在墨西哥、南美、欧洲或其他地方拍摄。
It’s seven streets and we added digitally above it.
它有七条街道，我们在上面添加了数字。
The ceilings are 20 feet high, you got to come see.
天花板有20英尺高，你一定要来看看。
You don’t believe that it’s here.
你不相信它就在这里。
It’s unbelievable.
太难以置信了。
Where is it north of Austin?
奥斯汀以北在哪里？
It’s where the old airport was.
这就是旧机场所在的地方。
2:29:34 So it’s like on 51st street.
就像在 51 街一样。
It’s really close to town.
它离城镇真的很近。
I would love to visit.
我很想去参观。
You got to come see, you’re not going to believe it.
你一定要来看看，你不会相信的。
2:29:40 All my props, all my stuff from all my movies.
我所有的道具，我所有电影中的所有东西。
So people who are investing in Brass Knuckle, that’s why I say it’s like a Willy Wonka movie because they’re going to get to come check out all that stuff and be in proximity and see, oh, like me with that painter.
因此，那些投资《指节铜套》的人，这就是为什么我说它就像一部《威利·旺卡》电影，因为他们会来看看所有这些东西，并近距离观察，哦，就像我和那位画家一样。
It’s not a trick, it’s just doing it.
这不是技巧，只是去做而已。
Then you realize you can do it, too.
然后你意识到你也能做到。
2:30:01 But we thought let’s shoot mostly live action and we’ll just replace her.
但我们认为我们主要拍摄真人电影，然后替换掉她。
But we still have to figure her out.
但我们还是得弄清楚她。
You have to cast the right actress.
你必须选对合适的女演员。
And when I saw Rosa Salazar, she was just amazing.
当我看到罗莎·萨拉查时，她真是太棒了。
She made me cry in audition for the first time.
她第一次在试镜时让我哭了。
I was like, oh my god, this person has something.
我当时想，天哪，这个人有一些东西。
If we can capture even a fourth of her facial expression, it will bring so much life.
如果我们能捕捉到她四分之一的面部表情，就会带来如此多的活力。
And they got it one to one.
他们一对一地做到了。
And it really helped Jim on the next Avatar and Weta because they got to try on a bunch of things.
这对吉姆制作下一个《阿凡达》和《维塔》确实很有帮助，因为他们必须尝试很多东西。
That’s why the second Avatar wave water looks so much more refined than the first Avatar because of that middle step of doing Alita.
这就是为什么第二个阿凡达的波浪水看起来比第一个阿凡达精致得多，因为做了阿丽塔的中间步骤。
It was training ground for them.
这是他们的训练场。
Can you actually educate me on the Weta process?
你能真正教我有关维塔流程的知识吗？
2:30:40 Is this like a performance capture technology?
这类似于表演捕捉技术吗？
I have her in a suit for capturing her body movements but also facial capture.
我让她穿着一套衣服来捕捉她的身体动作，同时也捕捉面部表情。
2:30:45 It’s a performance capture of all her performance, all her emoting, and we have witness cameras around everywhere to pick up where she is and everything else is real and we’re just replacing her but with someone even smaller in size, so you have to erase everything behind her.
这是对她所有表演、她所有情感的表演捕捉，我们到处都有目击摄像机来捕捉她在哪里，其他一切都是真实的，我们只是用一个更小的人来取代她，所以你必须抹掉她背后的所有东西。
It’s like a bunch of technical things you to do, but the idea is to, whatever performance she gives, she’s such a great actress, is to capture all of that because then this character that doesn’t even exist will feel very emotional and you have to be tied to it.
这就像你要做的一堆技术性的事情，但我们的想法是，无论她给出什么样的表演，她都是一位伟大的女演员，就是捕捉所有这些，因为这样这个甚至不存在的角色就会感到非常情绪化，你必须与它联系在一起。
You have to feel its heart.
你必须去感受它的内心。
She was the heartbeat of it.
她是这一切的心跳。
So she’s acting with all this.
所以她正在用这一切来表演。
Acting with all that, but it just disappears, it’s not even there.
与所有这些一起行动，但它就消失了，甚至不存在。
2:31:22 We don’t notice that this is here.
我们没有注意到这是在这里。
It’s like that.
就是这样。
She can just perform through it.
她只能通过它来表演。
What were some interesting, unique, challenging things about you directing her performance in this kind of world?
在你指导她在这样的世界里表演时，有哪些有趣的、独特的、具有挑战性的事情？
I just knew she had to be her.
我只知道她必须是她。
2:31:37 It was going to be just so easy with her.
和她在一起会很容易。
She’s just so great.
她真是太棒了。
Everything was just so real and everything was like she’s that character.
一切都是那么真实，一切都像她就是那个角色。
She becomes that character who’s seeing this world for the first time.
她成为第一次看到这个世界的角色。
No special effects going to help you with that if the performance isn’t there.
如果没有表演，没有特效可以帮助你。
So it was all about getting the performance and casting the right actors.
因此，最重要的是获得表演并选到合适的演员。
That’s why you get Christoph Waltz there and you get Jennifer Connelly, these masters are all on the set.
这就是为什么克里斯托夫·瓦尔兹和詹妮弗·康纳利都在现场，这些大师都在片场。
Mahershala Ali, you’ve got an amazing cast of people.
马赫沙拉·阿里，你有一群了不起的人。
And that’s really the heart of it so that the technology kind of goes away.
这确实是它的核心，因此该技术会消失。
How hard is it to get the actors to act when the full world is not around you?
当整个世界都不在你身边时，让演员表演有多难？
We put so much of the world around them.
我们把太多的世界放在他们周围。
2:32:20 When you see the city, we put a blue screen way in the back to just make the city keep going.
当你看到这座城市时，我们在后面放了一个蓝屏，让这座城市继续前进。
But we built the sets there, the town, we built the real set.
但我们在那里建造了布景，那个小镇，我们建造了真实的布景。
So everything was very tangible and real and that way she had to fit into that world and be as real as that because if it was all done in CG, well then now you can fudge everything.
所以一切都是非常有形和真实的，这样她就必须融入那个世界，并且像那样真实，因为如果这一切都是在 CG 中完成的，那么现在你可以捏造一切了。
But if you put her in a real environment, that’s a real challenge and that really helps them an Avatar because that whole place has created an Avatar.
但如果你把她放在一个真实的环境中，那就是一个真正的挑战，这确实有助于他们塑造阿凡达，因为整个地方都创造了一个阿凡达。
You could get away with a lot, but they wanted to commit to that kind of detail.
你可以做很多事，但他们想要致力于这种细节。
And on the next Avatar, that’s why it just feels like you’re really there.
在下一个《阿凡达》中，这就是为什么感觉就像你真的在那里一样。
It’s just stunning and you get there by having something to work on like this to take the technology to the next level.
这真是太令人惊叹了，你可以通过像这样的工作来将技术提升到一个新的水平。
2:33:01 So it was cool to be able to help, knowing that you’re being helpful to him in his process and not just distracting him, but then also he liked that his artist had something else to work on besides just Avatar, to just work on something different to freshen up their perspective on things and methodology.
所以能够提供帮助是很酷的，因为知道你在他的过程中对他有帮助，而不仅仅是分散他的注意力，但他也喜欢他的艺术家除了《阿凡达》之外还有其他东西可以做，可以做一些不同的事情来更新他们对事物和方法论的看法。
And so yeah, that was a really exciting movie to work on, and that we got to shoot it here, a Jim Cameron movie here in Austin.
所以，是的，这是一部非常令人兴奋的电影，我们必须在这里拍摄，一部在奥斯汀拍摄的吉姆·卡梅隆的电影。
That was the best, having him here and my whole crew who’s worked with me 25, 30 years, everyone had an extra spring in their step because they’re like, wow, we’re working on a Jim Cameron movie.
那是最好的，有他和我的整个团队，他们和我一起工作了 25 年、30 年，每个人的脚步都变得更加轻松，因为他们就像，哇，我们正在拍一部吉姆·卡梅隆的电影。
I mean that’s just like a high bar of achievement for everybody working on it.
我的意思是，这对于每个从事这项工作的人来说都是一个很高的成就标准。
Since we talked about a few the directors, can you speak to the genius of James Cameron?
既然我们谈到了几位导演，您能谈谈詹姆斯·卡梅隆的天才吗？
2:33:38 What makes him special?
是什么让他特别？
You talked about some of the difference in your approach and his.
您谈到了您和他的方法的一些差异。
He’s created some of the most special movies ever also.
他还创作了一些有史以来最特别的电影。
What’s behind that?
这背后是什么？
What would you say is interesting about the way his creative mind works?
您认为他的创造性思维的运作方式有何有趣之处？
I think that any of those guys, George Lucas, him know John Lasseter when he did Pixar.
我认为这些人中的任何一个，乔治·卢卡斯，当约翰·拉塞特制作皮克斯时，他都认识他。
2:33:56 It’s a mix of, and I always got really lucky.
这是一个混合体，而且我总是很幸运。
My first job was a photo shop because my dad had a friend who owned a photo shop.
我的第一份工作是一家照相店，因为我爸爸有一个朋友拥有一家照相店。
He said, your summer job.
他说，你的暑假作业。
And I was 16, go work for my friend Mario.
当时我 16 岁，去为我的朋友马里奥工作。
I go to Mario’s Photo shop and I’m developing pictures or develop photos from film.
我去马里奥照相店冲洗照片或用胶片冲洗照片。
And he said, here, take this camera home.
他说，来，把这个相机带回家。
Gave me one of his cameras.
给了我一台他的相机。
Take this camera home and some film.
把这款相机和一些胶卷带回家。
I need you to learn how to use the camera so you can help me sell the cameras.
我需要你学习如何使用相机，这样你就可以帮助我销售相机。
2:34:27 So I went home and I have a bunch of siblings, so well the stars are bed head taking all these pictures of everybody.
所以我回家了，我有一群兄弟姐妹，所以明星们都在床头给每个人拍了所有这些照片。
I take it back and he looks at the pictures when he develops, he’s like, “Whoa, these are really creative.
我收回这句话，他看着冲洗后的照片，他说：“哇，这些真的很有创意。
You’re a creative person.” So when sometimes people tell you something that you can’t unhear.
你是一个有创造力的人。”所以有时当人们告诉你一些你无法忽视的事情时。
And he goes, “That’s a gift.
他说：“这是一份礼物。
But now you need to become technical.” Because most creative people need technicians and technicians always need creative people because they’re not usually the same.
但现在你需要变得技术化。”因为大多数有创造力的人都需要技术人员，而技术人员总是需要有创造力的人，因为他们通常不一样。
You’re born with creativity.
你生来就有创造力。
It’s against your nature to be technical, but you can learn if you apply yourself.
精通技术是违背你的天性的，但如果你努力的话，你就能学会。
And if you’re both technical and creative, you’ll be unstoppable.
如果您兼具技术和创造力，您将势不可挡。
And I was like, stop.
我当时想，停下来。
Wow.
哇。
So here, I want you to learn zone photography and I want you to learn the technical part of it.
所以在这里，我希望你学习区域摄影，并且我希望你学习其中的技术部分。
2:35:15 So that’s why I didn’t take a crew on Mariachi.
所以这就是为什么我没有在 Mariachi 上带团队的原因。
I knew if I’m just the creative person and I need a crew to go actually technically make the movie, I’ll always need something.
我知道，如果我只是一个有创造力的人，并且我需要一个团队来真正从技术上制作电影，那么我总是需要一些东西。
And when you want to really change your life, you want to get your I need list down to little is possible.
当你想真正改变你的生活时，你希望将你的“我的需求”清单减少到尽可能少的程度。
Because if you’re like, well, I want to shoot my movie, but I need a cameraman and I need somebody who knows how to light it, your I need list keeps growing.
因为如果你想，好吧，我想拍摄我的电影，但我需要一名摄影师，并且我需要一个知道如何照明的人，那么你的“我需要”清单会不断增长。
That’s further and further and further you will be from what you need to accomplish.
你离你需要完成的事情会越来越远。
2:35:44 So I kind of went down there without any help so remember that script analogy where the guy said, throw away three scripts.
所以我在没有任何帮助的情况下就去了那里，所以请记住那个家伙说的脚本类比，扔掉三个脚本。
I said, no, I’m going to write three scripts and then shoot each one so I get better at each one of those jobs so I can learn to be technical.
我说，不，我要写三个剧本，然后拍摄每个剧本，这样我就能在每一项工作上做得更好，这样我就可以学习技术。
My technical capability was so little, I’m literally calling the guy on the phone.
我的技术能力太差了，我真的是在打电话给那个人。
How do I use this camera?
我该如何使用这款相机？
That’s how little I knew about it.
我对此知之甚少。
But I knew by doing the job, I would learn.
但我知道通过做这份工作，我会学到东西。
By being both, that’s really the key.
两者兼而有之，这才是真正的关键。
2:36:11 So Jim Cameron is like that.
吉姆·卡梅隆就是这样的。
Jim Cameron, when you think of those guys, George Lucas, very technical and very creative.
吉姆·卡梅隆（Jim Cameron），当你想到乔治·卢卡斯（George Lucas）这些人时，他们技术非常好，而且非常有创造力。
John Lasseter, very technical but very creative, Pixar.
约翰·拉塞特（John Lasseter），非常技术性但非常有创意，皮克斯。
Jim Cameron, very technical, very creative.
吉姆·卡梅隆，非常有技术，非常有创意。
Putting those two things together is really what sets you apart from other technicians and other creative people.
将这两件事放在一起确实是您与其他技术人员和其他创意人员的区别所在。
And it’s very, very powerful and a lot of creative people, again, it’s against their nature to be technical.
它非常非常强大，有很多有创造力的人，再说一遍，技术性违背了他们的本性。
They don’t want to do it.
他们不想这样做。
Make yourself do it.
让自己去做吧。
Read the manuals, take the lessons.
阅读手册，学习课程。
It frees you up because then you can go do like I just showed you in that demo, you are able to now be a technical person and creative and then you’re unstoppable.
它让你解放了，因为你可以像我刚刚在演示中向你展示的那样去做，你现在可以成为一名技术人员和创意人员，然后你就势不可挡。
He’s one of the best at it and he just knows how to craft a story.
他是最擅长的人之一，他知道如何编写一个故事。
He’s very analytical as well.
他也非常善于分析。
2:36:52 We bounce off each other in a funny way.
我们以一种有趣的方式互相反弹。
He goes, man, he came down to visit my studio before he did Alita.
他走了，伙计，他在拍《阿丽塔》之前来参观过我的工作室。
And he went, ” You only surround yourself with people who are like you.
他说：“你周围只有和你一样的人。
You exude creativity from every pore and so does everyone at your studio.” And I go, “Yeah, I didn’t hire them that way on purpose.” But I think if you’re not that way, you don’t belong there and you kind of leave.
你的每一个毛孔都散发着创造力，你工作室的每个人也是如此。”我说：“是的，我不是故意那样雇用他们的。”但我认为如果你不是那样，你就不属于那里，你就会离开。
And then I went to his studio and there were a bunch of Jim Cameron’s there.
然后我去了他的工作室，那里有一堆吉姆·卡梅隆的作品。
They’re like, oh my God, they’re all very technical.
他们就像，天哪，他们都非常技术性。
You can’t get all kind of fuzzy with the logic or you can’t get really creative with physics or anything.
你不能让逻辑变得模糊，或者你不能在物理或其他方面发挥真正的创造力。
They’re like, no, that’s not how it would work.
他们说，不，事情不是这样的。
It would be…
这将是……
And they’re just, wow, super great at what they do.
他们只是，哇，他们所做的事情非常出色。
Bar is sky-high and they’re all like that.
酒吧很高，他们都是这样。
Because yeah, you’re not like that, you can’t hang with those guys.
因为是的，你不是那样的人，你不能和那些家伙混在一起。
You can’t hang with him very long.
你不能和他在一起太久。
I heard a story where the guitar case being a rocket launcher, where, to you, you create this real world where everything is possible, the magic feels real.
我听过一个故事，吉他盒是一个火箭发射器，对你来说，你创造了一个一切皆有可能的真实世界，魔法感觉真实。
2:37:46 And for James Cameron, he has to know how a guitar case would work that would actually be up to double as a rocket launcher.
对于詹姆斯·卡梅隆来说，他必须知道吉他盒如何工作，实际上可以兼作火箭发射器。
When I showed him the trailer for Grindhouse and he sees the machine gun laying and all that, he just goes, “Whoa, that’s unbridled filmmaking from the id.” It makes sense only the second you’re watching it, not a second after, but the second you’re watching it, you believe it.
当我给他看《刑房》的预告片时，他看到了机关枪的摆放和所有这些，他只是说，“哇，这真是 id 肆无忌惮的电影制作。”只有在你观看它的那一瞬间，它才有意义，不是一秒钟后，而是当你观看它的那一刻，你就相信了。
2:38:12 But he’s really interesting in that he’s so prolific.
但他真的很有趣，因为他非常多产。
I walked into his writing studio and it’d be like one of the tables, you have those papers there.
我走进他的写作工作室，就像一张桌子，那里有那些文件。
Imagine them that thick, that thick, that thick, all script, script.
想象它们那么厚，那么厚，那么厚，全是剧本，剧本。
What are these?
这些是什么？
He goes, “This is a whole space opera version of this movie.
他说：“这是这部电影的完整太空歌剧版本。
We’re not making that one.” I was like, he’s just cranking out all this stuff.
我们不会做那个。”我当时想，他只是在制作所有这些东西。
Again, can I take this and go please?
再说一遍，我可以拿着这个走吗？
But yeah, we bounced off each other because I loved his analytical part of his brain.
但是，是的，我们互相排斥，因为我喜欢他大脑的分析部分。
I’m not that analytical.
我没那么善于分析。
I’m just kind of like, hey, I’m really creative feeling.
我只是觉得，嘿，我真的很有创意。
I’m like, woo, I’ll go this way and then woo, I’ll go that way.
我想，呜呜，我会走这条路，然后呜呜，我会走那条路。
And he likes that about me.
他喜欢我这一点。
But I think about things too much like you think about things like what makes a movie a billion dollar hit?
但我想得太多了，就像你想的那样，什么能让一部电影获得十亿美元的票房？
What are the elements that you need?
您需要哪些元素？
2:39:01 And I’m going to analyze that and I’m going to make sure my movie does that.
我将对此进行分析，并确保我的电影能够做到这一点。
And he engineers a submarine that can break the world record.
他还设计了一艘可以打破世界纪录的潜艇。
He engineers a movie that can break the world record.
他设计了一部可以打破世界纪录的电影。
He has that engineering mind, but the creative part, that’s very rare.
他有工程头脑，但创造性的部分却非常罕见。
So that’s very rare and he’s capitalized on both.
所以这种情况非常罕见，而他充分利用了这两点。
He had this submarine model like this big on his desk, the one that he broke the world record for.
他的办公桌上有这么大的潜艇模型，这是他打破世界纪录的模型。
And just seeing it and knowing him and having kids and stuff and a wife and I’m like, weren’t you afraid going down there with something had happened?
看到这一切，了解他，有了孩子、其他东西，还有妻子，我就想，你不害怕发生什么事吗？
No, I wasn’t afraid.
不，我并不害怕。
Why not?
为什么不呢？
Because I designed the escape vehicle.
因为逃生车是我设计的。
Yeah, if I was any other bozo, I’d be afraid.
是的，如果我是其他笨蛋，我会害怕的。
But he designed this escape.
但他设计了这次逃亡。
That kind of confidence, that’s him.
这种自信，就是他。
He just knows if some other bozo had designed the escape vehicle, I would be afraid.
他只知道如果是其他笨蛋设计了逃生车，我会担心。
But total confidence because he did it.
但完全有信心，因为他做到了。
The confidence of extreme competence.
极致能力的信心。
2:39:53 That’s brilliant.
太棒了。
Just to get you excited about how creative this stuff is, so Desperado was the only movie on the Sony lot being edited digitally.
只是为了让你对这些东西的创意感到兴奋，所以《亡命之徒》是索尼影片中唯一一部经过数字剪辑的电影。
2:39:57 Not only was I editing on a computer, I was editing in my house, which in 1994 was just unheard of.
我不仅在电脑上剪辑，还在家里剪辑，这在 1994 年是闻所未闻的。
So I’m there in my house and they made me cut in LA because at first I told the studio I want to edit Desperado myself.
所以我就在家里，他们让我在洛杉矶剪辑，因为一开始我告诉工作室我想自己剪辑《亡命之徒》。
It’s important that I edit it.
我编辑它很重要。
And they go, no you can’t.
他们走了，不，你不能。
Why not?
为什么不呢？
We’ve never had a director edit his own movie here, so we don’t want to set a precedent in case they thought it would give you too much power.
我们这里从来没有导演剪辑过自己的电影，所以我们不想开创先例，以免他们认为这会给你太多权力。
I said, this is the power of precedent.
我说，这就是先例的力量。
I said, well you bought Mariachi and I edited that.
我说，好吧，你买了 Mariachi，我编辑了它。
So they said, “Okay, but you’re going to have to edit in LA so we can watch it.
所以他们说，“好吧，但是你必须在洛杉矶剪辑，这样我们才能观看。
We don’t think you know what you’re doing.
我们认为您不知道自己在做什么。
We saw the footage and the shots are really short.
我们看到了镜头，镜头非常短。
It’s too short.” I was like, shots are too short.
太短了。”我当时想，镜头太短了。
2:40:47 Oh, because I was shooting my cuts.
哦，因为我正在拍摄剪辑。
They’re used to seeing footage of Antonio walks into the bar and it’s going to be a dialogue scene.
他们习惯了看到安东尼奥走进酒吧的镜头，这将是一个对话场景。
They expect the whole thing done from a wide shot.
他们期望整个事情都是从广角镜头中完成的。
I would shoot the wide shot.
我会拍摄广角镜头。
He walks in, cut, move the camera, let’s get over here because we wanted, because I’m not going to use it for the rest of the scene.
他走进来，剪切，移动摄像机，让我们到这里来，因为我们想要，因为我不会在场景的其余部分使用它。
I know we’re going to get into coverage.
我知道我们将进入报道范围。
I’ve already cut it.
我已经把它剪掉了。
So I was like, huh, that’s interesting.
所以我想，嗯，这很有趣。
So I cut the first scene.
所以我剪掉了第一个场景。
Have you ever seen Desperado?
你看过亡命之徒吗？
The first scene is the best scene.
第一个场景是最好的场景。
Steve Buscemi is telling a story.
史蒂夫·布西密正在讲一个故事。
He’s talking about the myth of the mariachi.
他正在谈论墨西哥流浪乐队的神话。
He’s doing all this crazy-
他做这一切都是疯狂的——
Oh yeah, great scene.
噢，是的，很棒的场景。
It’s crazy.
太疯狂了。
Great scene.
很棒的场景。
So then they come over.
然后他们就过来了。
2:41:13 I say, “Hey, you come see my first scene.” So they come over to my house, they watch it.
我说：“嘿，你来看看我的第一个场景。”所以他们来到我家，观看。
Okay, you know what you’re doing.
好吧，你知道你在做什么。
They leave.
他们离开了。
But I was cutting Desperado in my house that I rented there and then we shot Dusk Till Dawn at the same time.
但我在我租的房子里拍摄《亡命之徒》，然后我们同时拍摄了《杀出个黎明》。
So I was cutting Desperado four rooms and Dusk Till Dawn myself.
所以我自己剪辑了《亡命之徒》的四个房间和《杀出个黎明》。
I’m the editor.
我是编辑。
I don’t have an editing team other than the ones who import it into the machine.
除了将其导入机器的团队之外，我没有其他编辑团队。
So Del Toro came over, Soderbergh came over.
于是德尔托罗过来了，索德伯格也过来了。
Can I borrow for it Schizopolis?
我可以借用它吗？
Then no one had heard of somebody having an Avid in their living room.
然后就没人听说过有人在客厅里放了 Avid。
Jim comes over and he goes, “I hear you have an Avid in your living room.” And I go, “Yeah, come check it out.” Just like I roll out of bed.
Jim 过来说道：“我听说你的客厅里有一台 Avid。”我说：“是的，过来看看。”就像我从床上滚起来一样。
It’s like seems unremarkable because this is what you do right now.
这看起来似乎没什么了不起，因为这就是你现在所做的。
2:41:52 But back in ’94 it was unheard of.
但在 94 年，这是闻所未闻的。
I’m cutting three movies at the same time myself.
我自己正在同时剪辑三部电影。
I roll out bed, I come here, I can cut Desperado, I can cut Dusk Till Dawn.
我铺开床，我来这里，我可以剪《亡命之徒》，我可以剪《杀出个黎明》。
Anyway, that’s it.
无论如何，就是这样。
I hate working with editors.
我讨厌和编辑一起工作。
When I was doing Terminator 2, they wouldn’t even let me put the Bad to the Bone song in Terminator 2 because they didn’t think it would work and I had to sneak into the edit room at night on the weekend to cut it in and then show them the next day.
当我制作《终结者2》时，他们甚至不让我把《Bad to the Bone》这首歌放到《终结者2》中，因为他们认为这行不通，我不得不在周末晚上偷偷溜进剪辑室把它剪下来，然后第二天再给他们看。
He is like, that’s your own movie.
他说，那是你自己的电影。
You can’t give that kind of power to people.
你不能将这种权力赋予人们。
He said, “I hate working with editors.
他说：“我讨厌和编辑一起工作。
I’m going to do this.
我要做这个。
I’m going to tear down a wall in my house.
我要拆掉我家里的一堵墙。
I’m going to put it in Avid.
我要把它放到 Avid 中。
I’m going to cut my next movie.”
我要剪辑我的下一部电影。”
2:42:24 And he did.
他做到了。
He got an Oscar for editing Titanic.
他因剪辑泰坦尼克号而获得奥斯卡奖。
He had two other editors, but now no one ever took him for a ride like that again.
他还有另外两名编辑，但现在再也没有人带他去兜风了。
He edits on every movie.
他剪辑每部电影。
He has other editors, but he can go do his own cuts.
他还有其他剪辑师，但他可以自己剪辑。
When he shows me footage, he’s showing me himself on his own machine and it’s like, again, it gives you all those tools to be able to really find your vision that you’re looking for because you can’t always explain it to somebody because you don’t always know yourself.
当他向我展示视频时，他在自己的机器上向我展示了他自己，这就像，它再次为你提供了所有这些工具，让你能够真正找到你正在寻找的愿景，因为你不能总是向别人解释它，因为你并不总是了解自己。
You kind of come up with it as you do the process.
你在做这个过程的时候就想出了它。
Just a small tangent about the different software and the technologies involved.
只是关于不同的软件和所涉及的技术的一个小切线。
2:42:51 So you mentioned Avid, there’s Premiere Pro.
你提到了 Avid，还有 Premiere Pro。
Premiere was still in its early stages then.
那时首映还处于早期阶段。
2:42:56 I think Soderbergh looked at it and it said, “Yeah, I can’t afford an Avid for this movie.
我想索德伯格看了它，上面写着：“是的，我买不起这部电影的 Avid。
I’m going to go do it.” Because I think he started cutting on Premiere, but I’m sure it’s all better now.
我这就去办。”因为我认为他开始剪辑首映，但我确信现在一切都好多了。
I just have always used an Avid because I just always rent it back to the same production.
我一直使用 Avid，因为我总是将它租回同一制作团队。
I think I don’t have to buy a new one, but there’s lots of good I hear about all kinds of systems.
我认为我不必购买新的，但我听说各种系统都有很多优点。
I just use the same one.
我只是用同一个。
I guess that’s the question I have for you.
我想这就是我要问你的问题。
2:43:16 It’s just interesting for people.
这对人们来说很有趣。
It’s very interesting to me just the details use Avid.
我觉得很有趣，只是细节使用了 Avid。
What do you like?
你喜欢什么？
Multiple monitors?
多个显示器？
One monitor?
一台显示器？
I have a couple monitors and then one big monitor to watch it if I’m watching the scene back because the monitors are still a little wacky.
如果我回看场景，我有几个显示器，然后还有一个大显示器来观看，因为显示器仍然有点古怪。
2:43:25 I mean if I were to design my own system, I’d probably design it differently, but I’m literally, I’ve worked on that thing since ’94.
我的意思是，如果我要设计自己的系统，我可能会以不同的方式设计它，但实际上，我从 94 年就开始研究这个东西了。
I still don’t know all the shortcuts and all that shit.
我还是不知道所有的捷径之类的。
I still use it like my tape deck, play, rewind, pause and I can cut so fast with that just I don’t use the mouse for shortcuts.
我仍然像使用磁带机一样使用它，播放、倒带、暂停，而且我可以快速剪切，只是我不使用鼠标作为快捷方式。
I’m just like-
我就像——
So you found your way, preferred way, the workflow of using it and now you can sort of let go of the technical and then be creative?
所以你找到了你的方式，首选的方式，使用它的工作流程，现在你可以放弃技术，然后发挥创造力了？
Yeah, just be creative.
是的，只要有创意。
2:43:57 It’s just a tool.
这只是一个工具。
It’s just a tool and it’s like it doesn’t matter which system it is.
它只是一个工具，它是哪个系统并不重要。
It’s like if you can get it to work for you, great.
就好像如果你能让它为你工作，那就太好了。
There’s a lot of problems I have with it that I know are probably fixed on another system, but that they’ll have a whole other set of problems.
我遇到了很多问题，我知道这些问题可能在另一个系统上得到了解决，但他们还会遇到一系列其他问题。
So it’s like, well, why bother with that?
所以这就像是，好吧，为什么要这么麻烦呢？
There’s limitations I think that it has that would need to be fixed but not for what I’m doing.
我认为它有一些局限性需要修复，但不是针对我正在做的事情。
I mean, I can still do what I need.
我的意思是，我仍然可以做我需要做的事情。
It feels like part of the artistry is every system has limitations and you learn how to work around those limitations.
感觉艺术性的一部分是每个系统都有局限性，而你学习如何解决这些局限性。
2:44:17 I mean that’s every single thing.
我的意思是，这就是每一件事。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
2:44:25 My first VCRs, those things were, I was always known for taking what little basic equipment and milking the shit out of it, pushing the boundaries of what it can do.
我的第一台录像机，那些东西，我总是以使用很少的基本设备并从中榨取粪便而闻名，突破了它的功能界限。
And now it’s flipped.
现在它翻转了。
Now you’re working on a program and you can spend 10 years on this thing and you’re scratching the surface of what it’s capable of.
现在你正在开发一个程序，你可以花 10 年的时间在这件事上，而你只是触及了它的表面功能。
It’s totally flipped the other way.
情况完全颠倒过来了。
I’m not milking anything anymore.
我不再挤奶了。
I’m barely getting the smallest capability of it because I would have to spend a lot of time to figure out all the stuff that it can possibly do, and I’m sure it’s all great, fantastic stuff, but what a different world than when I grew up where it was like, okay, let me splice these two sound things together and it was so hard to get it to do.
我几乎无法获得它的最小功能，因为我必须花费大量时间来弄清楚它可能做的所有事情，而且我确信这都是伟大的、奇妙的事情，但是与我长大时的世界是多么不同，好吧，让我将这两个声音的东西拼接在一起，但很难做到。
2:45:06 People would be like, you got that movie out of that equipment?
人们会问，你是用那个设备拍出那部电影的吗？
Where now it’s the other way around.
现在却相反了。
It’s like all this equipment is great.
好像所有这些设备都很棒。
So when people come to me and say, “Well, I’ve only got this camera.” I was like, “That camera is 10 times better than anything I had for my first 15 years of filmmaking.” You have no complaints.
因此，当人们来找我说：“好吧，我只有这台相机。”我当时想，“那台相机比我前 15 年电影制作中使用的任何相机都要好 10 倍。”你没有任何抱怨。
This is like you can just start now and just start making stuff.
这就像你现在就可以开始制作东西一样。
I have a lot of friends who are huge fans of your movies, so one of them asked me that I absolutely must ask you, do you know if there’s sequel of Alita coming?
我有很多朋友都是你电影的超级粉丝，所以其中一个人问我，我一定要问你，你知道《阿丽塔》续集会来吗？
We’re working on it.
我们正在努力。
2:45:35 We’re definitely working on it.
我们肯定正在努力。
Jim and I both want to make it.
吉姆和我都想成功。
That’s usually when we meet, we talk about it.
通常，当我们见面时，我们会谈论它。
I gave him something to read.
我给了他一些东西让他读。
He’s a little busy with his Avatar movie, but I’m going to see him again soon and we’ll see where it’s at.
他的《阿凡达》电影有点忙，但我很快就会再次见到他，我们会看看它在哪里。
But we would love to make another one.
但我们很乐意再做一个。
We have ideas on how to do it because it was always built to be a trilogy and he sees that there’s a lot of love for it.
我们对如何做到这一点有想法，因为它总是被制作成三部曲，而且他看到人们对它有很多热爱。
It was just weird because it was Fox movie and they got bought by Disney and then so they weren’t really making Fox movies because they had enough work with their Disney movies, but now they’re starting to make some Fox movies like they did Deadpool and some Fox movies are starting to get made, so time might be right for us to come back and do Alita.
这很奇怪，因为那是福克斯电影，他们被迪士尼收购了，所以他们并没有真正制作福克斯电影，因为他们在迪士尼电影上做了足够的工作，但现在他们开始制作一些福克斯电影，就像他们制作《死侍》一样，一些福克斯电影也开始制作，所以我们可能是时候回来拍阿丽塔了。
No, I hope you do soon.
不，我希望你尽快这么做。
2:46:17 But I mean you do so many different kinds of movies, that’s a whole different kind of puzzle, right?
但我的意思是你拍了很多不同类型的电影，这是一个完全不同的谜题，对吧？
No, but it’s not a bad one.
不，但这并不是一件坏事。
2:46:26 It’s a good one.
这是一个很好的。
It’s a cool, it’s one of the few.
这很酷，是少数之一。
Usually I made kids’ family kids movies or R-rated action horror movies and that was the first time I got to do a PG-13 movie, which was kind of like, it had a lot of action but it was for families could watch it too and it was kind of like the best of all worlds.
通常我会制作儿童家庭电影或 R 级动作恐怖电影，这是我第一次制作 PG-13 电影，这有点像，它有很多动作，但也适合家庭观看，这有点像世界上最好的。
Have to ask you about Sin City, one of my favorite films of all time.
不得不问你关于《罪恶之城》的事，这是我一直以来最喜欢的电影之一。
2:46:42 It was a visually stunning world.
这是一个视觉上令人惊叹的世界。
What are some maybe interesting detailed aspects about you creating that world?
关于你创造的那个世界，有哪些可能有趣的细节方面？
This is why you just got to follow your nose and go do something.
这就是为什么你必须跟着你的鼻子去做一些事情。
2:46:55 Jim and I were both into 3D early on.
吉姆和我都很早就喜欢 3D。
I visited his set for the Terminator 3D ride.
我参观了他的 3D 终结者场景。
Dusk Till Dawn, I wanted to be 3D.
《杀出个黎明》，我想要 3D。
Actually when they got to the bar, if you’ve watched from that point on and everything’s kind of set up for 3D, everything was shooting into the camera and all this, but the cameras they had for 3D and film were those old shitty ones that were so bad that I went, “Okay, we can’t do it.” But I really wanted people to have to put on glasses when they got into the bar and it was going to turn into a 3D different movie.
事实上，当他们到达酒吧时，如果你从那时起就观看了，所有内容都已设置为 3D，所有内容都在拍摄到摄像机中，所有这些，但他们用于 3D 和胶片的摄像机是那些旧的劣质摄像机，它们太糟糕了，以至于我说，“好吧，我们不能这样做。”但我真的希望人们在进入酒吧时必须戴上眼镜，这样就会变成一部不同的 3D 电影。
I got to do that on Spy Kids 3D.
我必须在《小间谍 3D》中做到这一点。
2:47:27 So when I did Spy Kids 3D, I thought, oh, if I get Jim’s cameras that he’s done for these underwater 3D documentaries, I can make the first digital 3D film for theaters.
所以当我制作《小间谍 3D》时，我想，哦，如果我能得到吉姆为这些水下 3D 纪录片制作的相机，我就可以制作第一部用于影院的数字 3D 电影。
And so I did and it seemed like the easiest way was to utilize that when you put on the glasses, when you go into a game world, so there’s a green screen and we shot all the actors on green screen for all the game stuff and we could do a lot of 3D stuff coming at kids’ faces when they’re reaching.
所以我就这么做了，似乎最简单的方法就是利用它，当你戴上眼镜，进入游戏世界时，就会有一个绿屏，我们在绿屏上拍摄所有游戏内容的所有演员，当孩子们伸手时，我们可以在他们的脸上制作很多 3D 内容。
My 3D is not like the kind they have in theaters where it’s very polite.
我的3D不像他们在电影院里看的那种，非常有礼貌。
Mine’s like theme park 3D where kids aren’t doing like that trying to grab, that’s why it was such a big hit.
我的就像 3D 主题公园，孩子们不会像那样试图抓住，这就是它如此受欢迎的原因。
Nobody does 3D like that, but I wanted that.
没有人这样做 3D，但我想要那样。
I wanted shit falling in people’s laps.
我希望狗屎落在人们的怀里。
So you go, okay, this is why I’m wearing the glasses.
所以你走吧，好吧，这就是我戴眼镜的原因。
I’m wondering why.
我想知道为什么。
And when I went to go make my next movie, so this is how crazy this is, we shot Spy Kids 3D, remember actually how fast they came out.
当我去制作我的下一部电影时，这真是太疯狂了，我们拍摄了《小间谍 3D》，实际上还记得它们出来的速度有多快。
2:48:18 That was in the summer of 2003.
那是2003年的夏天。
Few months later, Once Upon a Time in Mexico came out.
几个月后，《墨西哥往事》问世。
Two number one movies, both were finishing trilogies of mine and each one starred Antonio, Danny Trejo, Cheech Marin.
两部排名第一的电影，都是我的三部曲的结尾，每一部都由安东尼奥、丹尼·特乔和切奇·马林主演。
When I was editing those at the same time, you’d be like, whoa, one movie.
当我同时编辑这些内容时，你会说，哇，一部电影。
They’re killing people and the other ones are with the kids going like, yay, family.
他们在杀人，而其他人则和孩子们在一起，就像，是的，一家人。
So it was really fun.
所以这真的很有趣。
It’s easier to do very different things than to do two action movies or two family movies at the same time.
做截然不同的事情比同时拍两部动作片或两部家庭电影更容易。
But I was like, okay, what’s my next movie going to be?
但我想，好吧，我的下一部电影会是什么？
Oh, shit, how crazy is this?
哦，该死，这有多疯狂？
Okay, so Antonio is on the set.
好的，安东尼奥在片场。
I’m going to shoot him out in half a day for Spy Kids 3D.
我要在半天之内为《小间谍 3D》拍摄他。
He’s only in the last scene on the green screen.
他只出现在绿屏的最后一个场景中。
Shoot him to lunch.
送他去吃午饭。
Okay, now go away, put on your Desperado outfit because we owed some shots for Once upon a Time in Mexico on the green screen.
好吧，现在走开，穿上你的亡命之徒服装，因为我们还欠一些《墨西哥往事》在绿屏上的镜头。
2:49:05 He finished two trilogies in the same day.
他在同一天完成了两部三部曲。
That’s got to be a first, if ever.
如果有的话，那一定是第一次。
No one’s ever finished two trilogies in the same day and it’s just kismet.
没有人能在同一天完成两部三部曲，这就是命运。
It is just how it happened to happen that day was just luck or the universe or whatever.
那天的事情就是这样发生的，只是运气或者宇宙或者其他什么。
But I needed to make up something new now.
但我现在需要弥补一些新的东西。
So I was looking through my bookshelves of inspiration and I picked up my Sin City books, which I’ve had.
所以我在书架上寻找灵感，然后拿起我已有的《罪恶之城》书籍。
I used to be a cartoonist and I always loved how I drew that.
我曾经是一名漫画家，我一直很喜欢我的画法。
Every time I’d see a different edition, I’d buy it, go home and go, oh, I already have this.
每次我看到不同的版本，我都会买它，回家然后走，哦，我已经有了这个。
I got three copies of this already.
我已经拿到了三本。
It would just always grab me by the throat and I liked that he was a writer/director in a way because he not just wrote comic, but he drew it too.
它总是会抓住我的喉咙，我喜欢他在某种程度上是一名作家/导演，因为他不仅写漫画，而且还画漫画。
A lot of times it’s a different writer or a different comic artist.
很多时候是不同的作家或不同的漫画家。
He’s like a real kinship.
他就像真正的亲戚一样。
This is someone who writes and directs his own thing.
这是一个自己写、导演自己作品的人。
2:49:50 But I was looking at it and I went, oh, shit, I know how to do this now.
但我看着它，然后我就想，哦，该死，我现在知道该怎么做了。
I just did it on the green screen.
我只是在绿屏上做的。
If I shoot this on green screen, the actors on green screen, I can make the backgrounds look just like this and I can contrast up the actors and I could get this very graphic look, which sometimes for a window it’s just a white box.
如果我在绿屏上拍摄，演员在绿屏上，我可以让背景看起来像这样，我可以对比演员，我可以获得这种非常图形的外观，有时对于窗口来说，它只是一个白色的盒子。
So it’s even got a sliding scale for budget.
所以它甚至有一个浮动预算。
If I run out of money, just put the actors in black and white, just put a white dot behind them for street light and that looks just like the book.
如果我没钱了，就把演员变成黑白的，在他们后面放一个白点作为路灯，看起来就像书里的一样。
So I’m going to bring the book to life.
所以我要把这本书变成现实。
2:50:18 So I’ll show you how fast we go from development at Troublemaker.
因此，我将向您展示 Troublemaker 的开发速度有多快。
It was October.
那是十月。
Once Upon a Time in Mexico had come out.
《墨西哥往事》已经出版了。
I was like, oh, shit, I know how to do this now.
我当时想，哦，该死，我现在知道该怎么做了。
Sin City, I’m going to do a test.
罪恶之城，我要做个测试。
Went to my green screen here in my studio, you’ll see my green screen where I shot all these movies and I shot my sister, myself, put it black and white.
去我工作室的绿屏，你会看到我的绿屏，我在那里拍摄了所有这些电影，我拍摄了我的妹妹，我自己，把它变成黑白的。
Looks just like the comic, but it’s moving.
看起来和漫画一样，但是很感人。
So I call a comic book artist friend of mine, Mike Allred, and I said, “Do you have Frank Miller’s number?” And he goes, “Yeah, I do.” Okay, I’m going to call him up, so I called Frank Miller.
于是我给我的一位漫画家朋友迈克·奥尔雷德 (Mike Allred) 打电话，我说：“你有弗兰克·米勒的电话号码吗？”他说：“是的，我愿意。”好吧，我要给他打电话，所以我给弗兰克·米勒打了电话。
“Hey, it’s Robert Rodriguez, I have a test I’m going to show you for Sin City.
“嘿，我是罗伯特·罗德里格斯，我要给你看一个关于罪恶之城的测试。
I’m going to be in New York tomorrow.” He’s like, “Tomorrow?
明天我要去纽约。”他说：“明天？
Okay, yeah, sure, come by.
好的，是的，当然，过来吧。
Meet me at this bar.” Okay, book a flight for New York.
来这家酒吧见我吧。”好的，订一张去纽约的航班。
I didn’t have a flight.
我没有航班。
2:51:05 I fly up there, have my laptop just like this.
我飞到那里，带着我的笔记本电脑就像这样。
I go to the bar, I show him what looks like an image from his comic and it starts moving.
我去了酒吧，向他展示了看起来像是他的漫画中的图像，它开始移动。
And he’s like, “Wow, how did you do that?” I said, “I got my own studio,” and all this.
他就像，“哇，你是怎么做到的？”我说，“我有自己的工作室”，等等。
And then I started telling, man, let’s make this movie because no one had the rights to it.
然后我开始告诉我们，伙计，让我们拍这部电影吧，因为没有人拥有它的权利。
He never gave the rights to a studio.
他从未将权利授予工作室。
A lot of comics, oh, Warner Brothers bought this a while back or then you got to go through the studio.
很多漫画，哦，华纳兄弟不久前买了这个，然后你就得去工作室。
He still owned his own rights.
他仍然拥有自己的权利。
In fact, he’d gotten burned by Hollywood so many times as a screenwriter that he said, “Fuck it, I’m going to go back and draw a comic that’s so raw that can never be made into a movie.” So of course I call him, “Hey, let’s make a great movie.”
事实上，作为一名编剧，他曾多次被好莱坞烧伤，以至于他说：“操，我要回去画一部漫画，太原始了，永远无法拍成电影。”所以我当然会打电话给他，“嘿，让我们拍一部很棒的电影吧。”
2:51:44 I show him how we can do it and I go, I know you don’t know me and I have to earn your trust for you to give me your baby, but we can make this right away.
我向他展示我们如何做到这一点，然后我走了，我知道你不认识我，我必须赢得你的信任才能让你把你的孩子生给我，但我们可以立即做到这一点。
And he’s all excited for about two seconds and then he goes, ” Oh no.
他兴奋了大约两秒钟，然后说道：“哦不。
Then we got to write a script and then the studio’s going to have notes.” All that shit he’s been through before and it’s not like that.
然后我们要写一个剧本，然后工作室就会有笔记。”他以前经历过所有那些狗屎，但事实并非如此。
I have a whole different setup.
我有一个完全不同的设置。
I got my own studio in Austin.
我在奥斯汀有自己的工作室。
This is how it’s going to be.
事情就是这样。
If you like this idea, you’re not going to have to take any risk.
如果你喜欢这个想法，你就不必冒任何风险。
Let me take all the risk.
让我承担所有的风险。
2:52:17 I’m going to go write the script myself next month.
下个月我要自己去写剧本。
It’s going to be unremarkable because I’m going to write it right out of your book.
这不会太引人注目，因为我要把它直接从你的书中写下来。
I’m going to edit through the stories down.
我将把这些故事编辑下来。
I’m going to just take stuff out really.
我真的要把东西拿出来。
Might add a few things to connect it, but I’ll write the script in December myself, no money involved.
可能会添加一些东西来连接它，但我会在 12 月自己编写脚本，不涉及金钱。
Then we’ll call some actor friends of mine.
然后我们会打电话给我的一些演员朋友。
We’ll have them come to my green screen.
我们会让他们来到我的绿屏上。
We’ll shoot the opening scene as a test, but it’s also the opening scene.
我们将拍摄开场场景作为测试，但这也是开场场景。
I’ll do the effects myself.
我自己来做效果。
Do the sound, do the music.
做声音，做音乐。
I’ll do fake credits.
我会做假信用。
We’ll watch it together.
我们会一起观看。
If you like what you see, we’ll make the movie.
如果你喜欢你所看到的，我们就会制作这部电影。
You give me the rights then.
那你给我权利。
If you don’t like it, keep it.
如果你不喜欢它，就保留它。
It’s a short film to show your friends.
这是一个短片，可以给你的朋友看。
It’s be really cool.
这真的很酷。
So he’s like, all right.
所以他就像，好吧。
There’s nothing on him to do.
他没有什么可做的。
It’s all on me.
一切都在我身上。
2:52:58 I write the script in December.
我十二月写剧本。
January, Josh Hartnett, Marley Shelton come down, fly Frank in.
一月，乔什·哈奈特、玛莉·谢尔顿下来，弗兰克飞进来。
Shooting for 10 hours on my green screen.
在我的绿幕上拍摄了 10 个小时。
We shoot that opening sequence.
我们拍摄开场片段。
Incredible opening sequence.
令人难以置信的开场顺序。
Record his voiceover, right then in my little voiceover booth.
就在我的小配音室录下他的配音。
2:53:09 Marley Shelton comes up.
玛丽·谢尔顿出现了。
Why did I hire him to kill me?
我为什么雇他来杀我？
I don’t know.
我不知道。
Let’s go ask Frank.
我们去问问弗兰克吧。
He’s right here.
他就在这里。
Let’s go ask Frank.
我们去问问弗兰克吧。
I want to know myself.
我想了解我自己。
So he tells her and he’s like, I want to do this movie already.
所以他告诉她，他说，我已经想拍这部电影了。
I was like, “I tell you Frank, I used to be a cartoonist.
我当时想，“我告诉你弗兰克，我曾经是一名漫画家。
It’s the same thing.” You’re already a director.
这是同一件事。”你已经是导演了。
You’re just using a pen instead of a camera.
您只是使用笔而不是相机。
The performances you get out of your paper actors are phenomenal.
纸上演员的表演是惊人的。
The shots you do are beyond any DPs ever done.
你的镜头超出了任何摄影指导的水平。
And the visual look, we’ve never seen that.
而视觉效果，我们从未见过。
I want to just take this and make it move.
我只想抓住这个并让它动起来。
I just want the comic to move.
我只是想让漫画动起来。
Any other studio would just go make it look like any gritty crime movie and they would miss the point that the visual is half of it.
任何其他工作室都会让它看起来像任何一部坚韧的犯罪电影，但他们会忽略视觉效果只占一半的这一点。
I want it to look just like this because it would be the boldest movie anyone’s seen because that’s how it reads when I read the book.
我希望它看起来像这样，因为这将是任何人看过的最大胆的电影，因为我读这本书时就是这样读的。
2:53:55 It’s like, if this was moving, it would be the most phenomenal movie.
就好像，如果这很感人，那将是最非凡的电影。
In fact, I asked him, do you ever feel like directing any of these short ones?
事实上，我问他，你有想过执导这些短片吗？
I thought about directing The Big Fat Kill, maybe as a short film.
我考虑过执导《大肥杀》，也许可以拍成一部短片。
You should come direct that one.
你应该直接来那个。
Shit, you should direct all of them with me because I’m really copying it right out of a book.
妈的，你应该跟我一起指导所有这些，因为我真的是从书上抄来的。
You should direct it with me.
你应该跟我一起指挥。
All right, let’s go.
好吧，我们走吧。
2:54:11 So then January, okay, so remember I met him in November.
那么一月，好吧，记住我是在十一月认识他的。
I wrote it in December.
我十二月写的。
January, we shoot the test.
一月，我们进行测试。
Took me a couple of weeks to do the effects.
我花了几周时间才做出效果。
He loves it.
他喜欢它。
I make a meeting with Bruce Willis, show it to Bruce Willis.
我与布鲁斯·威利斯会面，并将其展示给布鲁斯·威利斯。
What’s so cool about doing that opening scene is that any actor I show it to now, I show him the book, which is awesome.
制作开场场景的最酷之处在于，我现在向任何演员展示它，我都会向他展示这本书，这太棒了。
You’d be playing this character, but look at this test.
你会扮演这个角色，但看看这个测试。
Let me show you the book, what it looked like before I turn this test into a test.
让我向您展示这本书，在我将这个测试变成测试之前它是什么样子的。
Watches it, Josh Harnett, voiceover, music, titles come on.
乔什·哈内特（Josh Harnett）看着它，画外音、音乐、标题都出现了。
First name on the screen, Bruce Willis.
银幕上的名字是布鲁斯·威利斯。
And I go, “Hey look, you’re in the credits.
我说：“嘿，看，你在片尾字幕里。
You have to do it now.” Manifesting it, right?
你现在就必须这么做。”体现出来了吧？
He’s like, “Shit man, this is great.
他就像是，“天哪，这太棒了。
I’m in.” Go get everyone else from that was just easy to get.
我进去了。”去把其他人都带走，这很容易得到。
And we were filming the movie.
我们正在拍摄这部电影。
So February, right…
所以二月，对吧……
2:55:00 So February, building the few little sets we had, like the bar, I told Frank, “We don’t need to build a bar, but I’m going to go ahead and build a bar so we have a place to go have script meetings.
所以二月份，在建造我们拥有的一些小布景时，比如酒吧，我告诉弗兰克，“我们不需要建造一个酒吧，但我会继续建造一个酒吧，这样我们就有地方可以举行剧本会议。
Everything else will be green screen.
其他一切都将是绿屏。
We’ll build fake steps and things out of green.” So we’re doing that and I’m casting the first one.
我们将用绿色建造假台阶和东西。”所以我们正在这样做，我正在选第一个。
We’re shooting the movie by March, the beginning of March.
我们将在三月初拍摄这部电影。
And I remember because my son was born March 3rd and I was in LA for his birth because I was also recording the orchestra for the score I wrote somehow in the past few months for Kill Bill two.
我记得是因为我儿子出生于 3 月 3 日，我在洛杉矶庆祝他的出生，因为我也在为过去几个月为《杀死比尔 2》写的配乐录制管弦乐队。
That’s how much stuff was going on.
这就是发生了多少事情。
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊，是啊。
That’s like when you just let it flow, you’re just riding the wave, you’re not doing any of that.
这就像当你让它流动时，你只是随波逐流，你什么也没做。
2:55:36 So by staying in that urgent, there’s always, the deadlines are just pushing you to create stuff.
因此，通过保持紧迫感，最后期限总是会迫使你去创造东西。
And we shot the movie so fast, the record time.
我们拍摄电影的速度非常快，创纪录的时间。
Now, not only that, I shot a whole other movie that year.
现在，不仅如此，那一年我还拍摄了另一部电影。
I shot The Adventures of Sharkboy and Lavagirl with Kids that came out two months after Sin City the next year.
我拍摄了《鲨鱼男孩和熔岩女孩与孩子们的历险记》，该片于第二年《罪恶之城》上映两个月后上映。
Within less than a year, Sin City was out.
不到一年，罪恶之城就出局了。
You’re shooting that in parallel with Sin City.
你是在与罪恶之城同时拍摄的。
2:56:03 That’s hilarious.
太搞笑了。
Is that…
那是……
2:56:05 Yeah.
是的。
Sometimes we’d be shooting with the kids and then the afternoon Rudger Hauer would come and some of the Sin City girls to finish shooting stuff that we needed to film.
有时我们会和孩子们一起拍摄，然后下午鲁杰·豪尔会来和一些罪恶之城的女孩来完成我们需要拍摄的东西。
It was just insane how fast we had to move.
我们必须以如此快的速度移动，这真是太疯狂了。
I was doing it, I was editing.
我正在做，我正在编辑。
I just edited it.
我刚刚编辑过。
And then I would scan the artwork into the computer and I would edit the storyboards with the sound effects and I would do the voiceover.
然后我会将艺术品扫描到电脑中，用声音效果编辑故事板，并进行画外音。
I would imitate Mickey and I would imitate Bruce and lay out how fast it was going to move.
我会模仿米奇，我会模仿布鲁斯并列出它的移动速度。
And you were like, “Wow.” So now we have a template with the real drawings and the lighting on how we’re going to do it.
你就像，“哇。”现在我们有了一个包含真实图纸和灯光的模板，说明我们将如何做到这一点。
It was funny because I can do a pretty good Bruce Willis because I’ve known his career for so long.
这很有趣，因为我可以很好地扮演布鲁斯·威利斯，因为我很早就了解他的职业生涯。
We were doing his voiceover, and he would hear my guide voice for the timing and he’d be like, “Is that me or is that you?
我们正在为他做画外音，他会听到我的指导声音来判断时间，他会说：“是我还是你？
Can’t tell.” It’s like, “Oh, that one was me, but just do that.” He’s like, “All right, man.
说不出来。”就像，“哦，那个人是我，但就这么做吧。”他就像是，“好吧，伙计。
It sounds like me.”
听起来很像我。”
First of all, why haven’t films like that been made?
首先，为什么没有拍这样的电影？
Well, it’s a very specific look because it went to that comic.
嗯，这是一个非常特殊的外观，因为它去了那部漫画。
2:56:58 The first piece of music I wrote for that was the main title and I called it Descent.
我为此写的第一首音乐是主标题，我称之为《Descent》。
I wanted the notes to descend because it felt like you were descending into this dark world and you don’t come out till the end of the movie.
我想让音符下降，因为感觉就像你正在下降到这个黑暗的世界，直到电影结束你才出来。
You’re just in this world where all these layers of unreality…
你就在这个充满了不现实层面的世界里……
Water doesn’t photograph that way.
水不是这样拍摄的。
Snow doesn’t photo…
雪不拍照…
But it’s there and you’re seeing, you’re seeing the actors, so you’re just really, it’s a dream world.
但它就在那里，你正在看到，你正在看到演员，所以你真的，这是一个梦想的世界。
Yeah.
是的。
So I was really into it and I did test for the most difficult shots first.
所以我真的很喜欢它，我首先测试了最困难的镜头。
2:57:21 Like, how do I get his tape to glow in the dark like in the comics so it’s still in the shadow?
比如，我怎样才能让他的磁带像漫画中那样在黑暗中发光，这样它仍然在阴影中？
And I realized, oh, use fluorescent tape and a fluorescent light.
我意识到，哦，使用荧光胶带和荧光灯。
That way I can keep it, we can still key it.
这样我就可以保留它，我们仍然可以键入它。
I started just doing my own visual effects like that early on because I knew technology was changing so fast that I would need to just know how to do it like a magician.
我很早就开始做自己的视觉效果，因为我知道技术变化如此之快，我只需要知道如何像魔术师一样做到这一点。
Shooting digital, nobody wanted to touch digital back then.
拍摄数码照片，当时没有人愿意接触数码。
DPs were all afraid of digital.
摄影指导们都害怕数字化。
They didn’t want to have to learn something new.
他们不想学习新东西。
That’s so funny.
太有趣了。
So I had to DP it.
所以我不得不DP它。
2:57:54 So me photographing it, I’m like so [inaudible 02:57:58] to cut because to light, you have to have that light out frame right now.
所以我在拍摄它时，我就像这样 [听不清 02:57:58] 进行剪辑，因为为了照明，你现在必须让光线离开框架。
But I could bring the lights in right here as long as they’re not crossing it.
但我可以把灯带进来，只要它们不穿过它。
I’m just going to take it out of the green anyway so I could have the coolest lighting on everybody.
不管怎样，我只是要把它从果岭中拿出来，这样我就能给每个人带来最酷的灯光。
Cool edge lights.
很酷的边缘灯。
You could have an edge light back here, an edge light back here, a fill light here.
您可以在此处设置边缘光，在此处设置边缘光，在此处设置补光灯。
[inaudible 02:58:16] going to erase him.
[听不清 02:58:16] 将抹掉他。
I just take him out.
我只是带他出去。
Can you educate me and people curious about this, what is the power of light when you’re telling a story, when you’re creating a feeling, an experience?
你能告诉我和对此感到好奇的人们，当你讲述一个故事、当你创造一种感觉、一种体验时，光的力量是什么？
2:58:17 What’s the artistry of that?
这有什么艺术性呢？
Well, if you look at the drawings too, sometimes it’s the absence of light.
好吧，如果你也看一下图纸，有时会发现缺少光线。
Yeah, darkness.
是的，黑暗。
2:58:32 Yeah.
是的。
You would see this face, but then this would be completely black, but you would still see my eye, which is impossible, right?
你会看到这张脸，但然后这将是完全黑色的，但你仍然会看到我的眼睛，这是不可能的，对吧？
But you believe it when you see it because it’s there.
但当你看到它时你就会相信它，因为它就在那里。
So things like that were a lot of the tricks I tried first because I liked that about it.
所以类似的事情是我首先尝试的很多技巧，因为我喜欢它。
It’s like you have a guy completely back lit so there’s no light on his face, but yet his glasses are glowing white.
就好像你有一个完全背光的人，所以他的脸上没有光，但他的眼镜却发出白色的光。
2:58:50 So we’d put fluorescent tape in there, hit that with a light, then we could turn it white later.
所以我们会把荧光胶带放在那里，用灯照射它，然后我们就可以把它变成白色。
The black and white really helps.
黑白真的很有帮助。
And then just upping the contrast.
然后只是提高对比度。
But it’s just something that you have a feeling for, but you’re able to try it.
但这只是你有感觉的事情，但你可以尝试一下。
In fact, when I took it to George Lucas, George Lucas said this to me early on because we were the only guys shooting digital.
事实上，当我把它拿给乔治卢卡斯时，乔治卢卡斯很早就对我说了这句话，因为我们是唯一用数字技术拍摄的人。
He said, “Man, it’s so good you live in Austin.
他说：“伙计，你住在奥斯汀真是太好了。
That’s why I’m in Marin County.
这就是我在马林县的原因。
Because when you live outside of this box of LA, Hollywood, you think outside of the box automatically.
因为当你生活在洛杉矶、好莱坞这个盒子之外时，你会自动跳出盒子思考。
You’re just going to stumble upon innovations.” And he was right.
你只会偶然发现创新。”他是对的。
It was like, “Yeah, why aren’t we shooting digital?
就像，“是啊，我们为什么不采用数码方式拍摄呢？
Let’s shoot digital.
让我们用数码相机拍摄吧。
Why aren’t we shooting digital 3D?
我们为什么不拍摄数字 3D？
Let’s do that.
让我们这样做吧。
Why don’t we just use green screen for the background?” You just start innovating because you’re away from any [inaudible 02:59:31] saying, “Hey, you can’t do it that way.”
为什么我们不直接使用绿屏作为背景呢？”你刚刚开始创新，因为你不再会说“嘿，你不能那样做”[听不清 02:59:31]。
2:59:32 Which they would say if I was in LA.
如果我在洛杉矶他们会这么说。
So we just came up with a whole other method.
所以我们想出了另一种方法。
So I took him to Sin City to check out the first thing I was going to show at Comic-Con.
所以我带他去了罪恶之城，看看我要在动漫展上展示的第一件东西。
He said, “Now this will really show people what digital is capable of.
他说：“现在这将真正向人们展示数字化的能力。
This really shows how avant-garde you can get with that shit.
这确实表明了你可以用这种东西变得多么前卫。
That you could never have done that on film.” And so by me versing myself in that technology early, I was able to make a movie like that and then everyone had to play catch-up.
你永远不可能在电影中做到这一点。”因此，通过我很早就精通这项技术，我能够制作一部这样的电影，然后每个人都必须迎头赶上。
So you should always just follow your, that’s why people say, “Don’t use those curtains.
所以你应该永远跟随你的，这就是为什么人们说，“不要使用那些窗帘。
That’s not going to work.” Just blow past those guys.
那是行不通的。”只要吹过那些家伙就可以了。
Go innovate your own thing because sometimes not knowing is better.
去创新你自己的东西，因为有时不知道更好。
Being too naive to…
自己太天真了……
“Don’t you know you shouldn’t have been able to make that movie that way?” People would say that all that time.
“你难道不知道你不应该那样拍那部电影吗？”人们一直这么说。
“How did you make Mariachi for $7,000?
“你是如何以 7,000 美元制作 Mariachi 的？
You know it’s impossible.” It’s like, why do you keep using that word?
你知道这是不可能的。”就像，你为什么一直用这个词？
Because it can’t be impossible if I did it, because I’m not that smart.
因为如果我做到了，那也不是不可能的事，因为我没那么聪明。
And it’s like saying, “How did you get to the top of Mount Everest?
这就像在说：“你是怎么登上珠穆朗玛峰的顶峰的？
It’s impossible.
这是不可能的。
Well, I just kept walking.
好吧，我只是继续走。
I didn’t realize it was at a slope.
我没有意识到这是一个斜坡。
I didn’t really realize it was going up that high.
我真的没有意识到它会涨得那么高。
Yeah.
是的。
3:00:37 You’ve talked about a big part of your approach to filmmaking, to life is manifesting, manifesting the reality you want.
你谈到了你的电影制作方法的一个重要部分，生活就是体现，体现你想要的现实。
In fact, I should comment.
其实我应该评论一下。
I would love to ask you about manifesting.
我很想问你关于显化的问题。
You asked me at the beginning of this conversation, “Do you consider yourself a creative person?” I should reflect on that because I was very uncomfortable answering that.
在谈话开始时你问我：“你认为自己是一个有创造力的人吗？”我应该反思这一点，因为回答这个问题让我感到非常不舒服。
Yeah.
是的。
3:00:59 I noticed a little bit.
我注意到了一点。
And I was like, I’m going to free you up so that you’re never uncomfortable again.
我当时想，我要释放你，这样你就不会再感到不舒服了。
It’s scary to say that about yourself, to allow yourself-
谈论自己、允许自己这样说是很可怕的——
Because you think there’s a lot of people that go, “Well, you’re not an artist.
因为你认为有很多人会说：“好吧，你不是艺术家。
3:01:06 You’re not a creative.” But you’re not saying, “I’m an artist.
你不是一个有创意的人。”但你并不是说：“我是一名艺术家。
I’m saying I’m a creative person.” But that’s an artist too, isn’t it?
我是说我是一个有创造力的人。”但这也是一位艺术家，不是吗？
Artist isn’t necessarily a guy with the French mustache and the funny hat.
艺术家不一定是留着法国小胡子、戴着滑稽帽子的人。
That’s not necessarily what an art…
这不一定是艺术……
Artists are regular people.
艺术家也是普通人。
Yeah.
是的。
And regular people relate to art that’s imperfect.
普通人对不完美的艺术有共鸣。
3:01:21 If you can make art that’s perfect, no one will relate to it.
如果你能创作出完美的艺术，那么没有人会喜欢它。
So when you think about it like that, you go, “Well, I can make imperfect art.
所以当你这样思考时，你会说：“好吧，我可以创作不完美的艺术。
So yeah, I am an artist.” And if you have doubt, you’re an artist.
所以是的，我是一名艺术家。”如果你有疑问，那么你就是一名艺术家。
That’s an artist.
那是一位艺术家。
Real artists always wonder if they’re good enough.
真正的艺术家总是想知道自己是否足够好。
So you are an artist.
所以你是一位艺术家。
Just by the fact that you were uncomfortable saying it, you’re a real artist.
仅仅因为你说起来不舒服，你就是一个真正的艺术家。
Yeah.
是的。
3:01:41 And there’s some degree, I don’t know if you could speak to this, but there’s a fear of creating shitty things.
在某种程度上，我不知道你是否可以谈论这一点，但人们害怕创造出糟糕的东西。
I’ve created a lot of really shitty things in my life and I always feels like that’s really important to do.
我一生中创造了很多非常糟糕的东西，但我总觉得这真的很重要。
Okay.
好的。
3:01:57 But you’re judging something that you have no business judging.
但你正在评判一些你无权评判的事情。
Right.
对。
I have so many people, that’s why I like making movies on purpose that have less money and less time.
我有那么多人，所以我喜欢刻意用更少的钱和更少的时间拍电影。
3:02:01 On purpose.
故意的。
The biggest movie I said of all time on Netflix is We Can Be Heroes.
我说过 Netflix 上有史以来最大的电影是《我们可以成为英雄》。
I told them, “I don’t want to spend more than $50 million.
我告诉他们，“我不想花超过 5000 万美元。
I know you all want to give me 80, but I want to be a hero and come in at 50 because one, it’ll make it better.
我知道你们都想给我 80 分，但我想成为一名英雄，并在 50 分时加入，因为一分，它会让事情变得更好。
And then two, you’ll make three of them instead of just one.
然后是两个，你会制作三个而不是一个。
I don’t want to just go spend the farm.” And not many filmmakers will do that.
我不想只是去花农场。”没有多少电影制片人会这样做。
Don’t try to get as much money as they can.
不要试图获得尽可能多的钱。
But when you’re spending less, it’s a win-win situation.
但当你减少支出时，这是一个双赢的局面。
You have more creative freedom because they’re going to leave you alone.
你有更多的创作自由，因为他们不会打扰你。
You can do whatever you want.
你可以做任何你想做的事。
3:02:33 So I like the creative limitations that come from less money.
所以我喜欢钱少带来的创意限制。
That’s why I like Brass Knuckle Films.
这就是我喜欢《指节铜套》电影的原因。
We’re going to make them for less so that they are better, not to make them shitty.
我们将以更少的成本制造它们，以便它们变得更好，而不是让它们变得很糟糕。
So many people have come up to me and said, “You know what part I love in your movie?” And they’ll tell me some scene.
很多人走过来对我说：“你知道我喜欢你电影中的哪一部分吗？”他们会告诉我一些场景。
And I’m like,” Oh, well, that’s because we ran out of sun and we had to do that jump with just him jumping on a pad three times,” or whatever it is.
我就想，“哦，好吧，那是因为我们没有阳光了，所以我们必须让他在垫子上跳三次，”或者其他什么。
It’s something that you fumbled together and that’s what they’re drawn to.
这是你摸索出来的东西，也是他们所吸引的地方。
They’re drawn to that imperfect thing.
他们被那些不完美的东西所吸引。
And so I wouldn’t judge it because somebody, if you called your movie, that’s like John Carpenter saying, “Yeah, nobody liked The Thing and it’s a shitty movie and everyone hated it, so it must not be good.” Then 10 years later, it’s a masterpiece.
所以我不会评判它，因为有人，如果你给你的电影命名，就像约翰·卡彭特说的那样，“是的，没有人喜欢《怪形》，这是一部糟糕的电影，每个人都讨厌它，所以它一定不好。” 10年后，这就是一部杰作。
3:03:17 So don’t judge it because words we use on ourselves are very powerful.
所以不要评判它，因为我们对自己使用的言语非常强大。
So if you say, “Well, I’m kind of an artist sometimes.
所以如果你说：“嗯，有时我是一位艺术家。
I make a lot of shitty stuff,” well, that’s going to be your lot in life.
我做了很多糟糕的东西，”好吧，这将是你一生的命运。
I’m in pretty good shape for a director.
对于导演来说，我的状态非常好。
It’s not because I’m operating the camera, because I work out.
这不是因为我在操作相机，而是因为我在锻炼。
But I always hated working out.
但我一直讨厌锻炼。
I was not into sports.
我不喜欢运动。
I was a filmmaker.
我是一名电影制片人。
I was a cartoonist in high school.
我在高中时是一名漫画家。
I was really tall.
我本来就很高。
They would say, “Come work, come be in our team.
他们会说：“来工作吧，加入我们的团队。
It’s a small school.
这是一所小学校。
We need you.” And I’m like, “I don’t know how to play any of these things.
我们需要你。”我想，“我不知道如何玩这些东西。
I’m an artist.” There’s a line in The Faculty that was my line to coaches when they would say, “You got to come run with everybody.” I would say, “I don’t think a person should run unless he’s being chased.” I gave that to-
我是一名艺术家。”学院里有一句话是我对教练说的：“你必须和每个人一起跑步。”我会说，“我认为一个人不应该跑步，除非他被追赶。”我把它给了——
Good line.
好线。
The Elijah Wood character because that’s the guy I identified with.
以利亚·伍德这个角色，因为我认同他。
3:04:01 He’s there with this camera and that was me.
他拿着相机在那儿，那就是我。
So I hated it.
所以我讨厌它。
And then because I was a cartoonist drawing like this for hours, four hours, my back would go out.
然后因为我是一个漫画家，画了几个小时、四个小时，我的背就会痛。
Out for a month.
出去一个月了
It would just go out from being so tall and crunched over.
它会因为太高而被压扁而消失。
And then when I started making movies, operating the camera and doing steady cam, every year it would go out to where I would need cortisone shots to get up again if I’m filming or just be out for a month.
然后，当我开始制作电影、操作相机和稳定摄像机时，每年如果我正在拍摄或外出一个月，它都会出现在我需要可的松注射才能再次起床的地方。
And on Spy Kids 2, Ricardo Montalban had bad back surgery that went wrong and he was in a wheelchair.
在《小特工 2》中，里卡多·蒙塔尔班的背部手术出了问题，导致他坐在轮椅上。
So he’s in a wheelchair and I’m in a walker and he’s like, “I’m 84.
所以他坐在轮椅上，我坐在助行器上，他说，“我已经 84 岁了。
What’s your excuse?” And I was like, “I don’t know.
你有什么借口？”我当时想，“我不知道。
I just was operating steady…”
我只是一直在稳定地运转……”
3:04:43 He goes, “You have to work out, Robert.
他说：“你必须锻炼身体，罗伯特。
You have to work out.” And I was like, “Shit, okay.
你必须锻炼身体。”我当时想，“妈的，好吧。
Yeah, I know, I know.” And so then I thought, okay, next year I’m working with Stallone.
是的，我知道，我知道。”然后我想，好吧，明年我要和史泰龙合作。
I’ll ask Stallone.
我去问史泰龙。
I’ll ask Stallone.
我去问史泰龙。
“How do you get in shape?
“你如何保持身材？
Because I need to get in shape.
因为我需要保持身材。
My back’s always going out.” He goes, “Get the trainer.
我的背总是出问题。”他说：“去找教练。
Anyone who ever saw in Hollywood got in shape, they had a trainer.” I say, “Even you?” [inaudible 03:05:03] go, “I need a trainer.” He has a trainer.
任何在好莱坞见过塑形的人，他们都有一位教练。”我说：“连你也这样吗？” [听不清 03:05:03] 说，“我需要一名培训师。”他有一个教练。
[inaudible 03:05:04], “No, I need a trainer.
[听不清 03:05:04]，“不，我需要一名培训师。
I can’t train.” I was like, well, shit, if you can’t even train on your own, and what do us mortal men have?
我无法训练。”我当时想，好吧，妈的，如果你连自己都训练不了，那我们凡人还能有什么呢？
So I got a trainer.
所以我找了一个教练。
Guess what happened?
猜猜发生了什么？
Hated it.
讨厌它。
I would feel sick when he was coming over because I hate working out.
当他过来时我会感到恶心，因为我讨厌锻炼。
And then some years of doing that, I can’t stand it.
然后这样做了几年，我无法忍受。
3:05:21 I know it’s good for my health.
我知道这对我的健康有好处。
So the desire is there.
所以欲望就在那里。
So if you can’t accomplish something in your life, it’s not a lack of desire.
因此，如果你在生活中无法完成某件事，这并不是因为缺乏欲望。
If you want to be more creative, it’s not a lack of desire.
如果你想变得更有创造力，这并不是缺乏欲望。
It’s a lack of identity.
这是缺乏身份。
The fact that you went, you were comfortable about saying creative, it’s because there’s a lack of identity there.
事实上，你去了，你很舒服地说有创意，那是因为那里缺乏身份。
You have lots of desire.
你有很多欲望。
You got to get the identity up and then suddenly you’re making shit.
你必须把身份摆出来，然后突然你就开始胡闹了。
So a friend of mine from Mexico, she comes over, “I have to stop smoking.
我的一位来自墨西哥的朋友走过来说，“我必须戒烟。
My doctor said I have to stop smoking for my health so I’m not smoking right now.” Said, “I’ve been smoking since I was eight years old.” I said, “Well, you’re going to go back to smoking because you just told me your identity is a smoker.
我的医生说为了健康我必须戒烟，所以我现在不吸烟。”他说：“我从八岁起就开始抽烟了。”我说：“好吧，你会重新开始吸烟，因为你刚刚告诉我你的身份是吸烟者。
So right now you’re a smoker who’s not smoking.
所以现在你是一个不吸烟的吸烟者。
What’s going to happen?
会发生什么？
Eventually you’re going to [inaudible 03:06:04].
最终你会[听不清 03:06:04]。
You have to say, ‘I’m a nonsmoker.'” Just that lesson I’ve forgotten.
你必须说，‘我不吸烟。’”我已经忘记了这一课。
3:06:08 “You have to say, ‘I’m a nonsmoker.
“你必须说，‘我不吸烟。
I’m a nonsmoker.’ What does a nonsmoker do?
我不吸烟。’不吸烟者会做什么？
If you believe you’re a nonsmoker, you hate smoke.
如果您认为自己不吸烟，那么您就会讨厌吸烟。
Start choking at the smell of smoke.” “Okay, I’ll try that.” She walks off, I go, “Shit, I forgot about my own…
开始被烟味窒息。” “好吧，我会尝试一下。”她走开了，我走了，“妈的，我忘了我自己的......
I wonder where my life I got to apply that.
我想知道我的生活应该在哪里应用它。
Working out.
锻炼身体。
Of course.
当然。
My God, I hate working out.
天哪，我讨厌锻炼。
No wonder I am so miserable.
难怪我这么惨。
I’ll tell my trainer and anyone who will listen, ‘I can’t stand working out.
我会告诉我的教练和任何愿意倾听的人，‘我无法忍受锻炼。
I don’t understand sports.'” So that day I said, “I’m an athlete.
我不懂运动。’”所以那天我说，“我是一名运动员。
I’m an athlete.”
我是一名运动员。”
Yeah.
是的。
That’s the last thing I would ever call myself all through my entire life.
这是我一生中最后一次这样称呼自己。
3:06:38 This was 2012.
那是2012年。
“I’m an athlete.” By the next day, not only did my life completely change, and it’s easier if it’s opposite day, if you’re just doing it by degrees, that’s bullshit.
“我是一名运动员。”到了第二天，我的生活不仅完全改变了，而且如果是相反的一天，如果你只是循序渐进地做，那就更容易了，那是胡说八道。
You got to go complete opposite.
你必须完全相反。
Because if there’s a donut, if you say, “Well, I’m going to only eat half of it.” You got to go, “No, I’m going to get an apple.” Opposite day is much easier.
因为如果有一个甜甜圈，如果你说：“好吧，我只会吃一半。”你必须说：“不，我要去买一个苹果。”对面的日子就容易多了。
Not only did I change my life working out, I didn’t ever need a trainer.
我不仅改变了我的锻炼生活，而且我不再需要教练了。
I have not had a trainer since all those years.
这么多年以来，我一直没有遇到过教练。
Because I’m an athlete, I’ll just do it.
因为我是一名运动员，所以我就这么做。
Because you’re an athlete.
因为你是一名运动员。
What does an athlete do?
运动员做什么的？
3:07:13 An athlete loves working out.
运动员热爱锻炼。
An athlete will make-
一名运动员将会——
Brilliant.
太棒了。
Time to work out and they’ll eat right.
是时候锻炼了，他们就会吃得好。
3:07:17 I would never be the person that would call themselves an athlete, but that’s how much it can change your life by changing your identity.
我永远不会成为那个称自己为运动员的人，但这就是通过改变你的身份来改变你的生活的程度。
So if you want to be more creative, you’ve already got that in that desire.
因此，如果您想变得更有创造力，那么您已经有了这个愿望。
You’ve got enough of that.
你已经受够了。
You don’t need more desire.
你不需要更多的欲望。
You need more identity.
你需要更多的身份。
So you got to say, “I’m a creative person,” with a straight face.
所以你必须板着脸说：“我是一个有创造力的人”。
With a straight face and believe it.
板着脸相信它。
So when I say, “Hey, are you a creative person?” You go, “Yeah.” Because then if you say that, what do you do?
所以当我说：“嘿，你是一个有创造力的人吗？”你说：“是的。”因为如果你这么说，你会做什么？
3:07:40 You’re going to do more creative stuff because that’s what a creative person does.
你会做更多有创意的事情，因为这就是有创意的人所做的事情。
It doesn’t make sense to me how manifesting works, but it does seem to work.
我不明白显化是如何运作的，但它似乎确实有效。
3:07:48 Basically visualizing a path towards a certain kind of future.
基本上是想象一条通往某种未来的道路。
I guess everything around you, everything within you makes way for that.
我想你周围的一切，你内心的一切都为此让路。
Makes way for the possibility of that.
为这种可能性让路。
It’s weird.
这很奇怪。
It’s weird, but it’s nice to know that you can do that.
这很奇怪，但很高兴知道你可以做到这一点。
3:08:04 But you have to just have that conviction and just say, start with a label.
但你必须有这样的信念，然后说，从一个标签开始。
Yeah.
是的。
3:08:12 The RR.
RR。
Yeah.
是的。
Start with a label.
从标签开始。
3:08:13 The double R or the label you just gave yourself.
双R或者你刚刚给自己贴的标签。
Yeah.
是的。
I changed my label.
我改变了我的标签。
3:08:16 My label was I hate working out.
我的标签是我讨厌锻炼。
Now I’m an athlete.
现在我是一名运动员。
I’m an athlete.
我是一名运动员。
3:08:20 I’m not a non-athlete anymore.
我不再是一名非运动员了。
I’m changing my label.
我正在改变我的标签。
And you get so inspired because now you know what to do because you can’t help but conform to your identity.
你会受到很大的启发，因为现在你知道该怎么做，因为你情不自禁地要符合自己的身份。
You’re always going to conform to your identity.
你总是要符合你的身份。
So just change your identity and you’ll change your life.
因此，只要改变你的身份，你就会改变你的生活。
And it’s not that hard.
这并不难。
I didn’t have to go get hypnotized or anything.
我不需要去催眠什么的。
It was literally, I just told myself if I could do that, go from a guy who doesn’t want to work out, hates it, hates it…
从字面上看，我只是告诉自己，如果我能做到这一点，从一个不想锻炼、讨厌锻炼、讨厌锻炼的人身上走出来……
I had the desire.
我有这个愿望。
I was already hiring the guy.
我已经在雇用这个人了。
I lacked the identity.
我缺乏身份。
As soon as I changed my identity, boom.
当我改变身份后，繁荣。
Well, one of the things for me like that is probably music.
嗯，对我来说，其中一件事可能就是音乐。
3:08:49 Just playing guitar.
只是弹吉他。
Are you a musician?
你是音乐家吗？
Yeah [inaudible 03:08:56].
是的 [听不清 03:08:56]。
Look at [inaudible 03:08:56].
看看 [听不清 03:08:56]。
3:08:55 You paused.
你停了下来。
You’re pausing.
你正在暂停。
I would definitely not…
我绝对不会……
3:08:57 I’m going along with it now, but if we’re honestly, if we’re just in the [inaudible 03:09:02]-
我现在同意了，但如果我们说实话，如果我们只是在 [听不清 03:09:02]-
You wouldn’t have said that.
你不会这么说的。
I wouldn’t have said it.
我不会这么说的。
But I heard you rip on fucking guitar.
但我听到你弹着该死的吉他。
And I’ve heard you play amazing in all different kinds of contexts.
我听说你在各种不同的环境下都表现出色。
Oh, but I should be freaking Santana by now because I’ve had a guitar in my hand since I was a kid, but since I’m not a full-time musician, I don’t get to play it that often.
哦，但我现在应该吓坏了桑塔纳，因为我从小就手里拿着一把吉他，但由于我不是一名全职音乐家，所以我不能经常演奏它。
3:09:09 So I’m not as good as I should be.
所以我没有达到我应有的水平。
But when you apply yourself to just rehearse for a couple shows, you book some shows…
但是，当您专心排练几场演出时，您会预订一些演出……
Look at this.
看看这个。
This was me just playing our first arena show opening for George Lopez.
这是我刚刚为乔治·洛佩兹表演的第一场竞技场表演。
That was crazy to be on the stages where your heroes, that you saw them.
能在舞台上看到你的英雄，那真是太疯狂了。
Now you’re seeing what their point of view was.
现在你知道他们的观点是什么了。
It blows your mind.
它让你大吃一惊。
You need to get on stage.
你需要登上舞台。
You get on stage once and you’ll see that it’s not as bad as you think.
当你登上舞台一次，你就会发现事情并没有你想象的那么糟糕。
You’re not terrified?
你不害怕吗？
3:09:44 Because you’re playing pretty complicated things.
因为你正在玩非常复杂的东西。
I’ve seen you play live.
我看过你现场演奏。
Yeah.
是的。
3:09:48 And I mess up a bunch of times-
我也搞砸过很多次——
[inaudible 03:09:50].
[听不清 03:09:50]。
But you don’t want to focus on that.
但你不想专注于此。
3:09:50 And you just go, “Okay, I got to do it.” Because when you’re up there, it’s not that you’re screaming, nervous, but your hands will just won’t work anymore.
然后你就说：“好吧，我必须这么做。”因为当你在上面时，并不是你在尖叫、紧张，而是你的手不再起作用了。
Something will happen.
将会发生一些事情。
But that happens to everybody.
但这发生在每个人身上。
If you really watch even the best in their live performances, watch really close and you see they screw up a couple things, but you just wouldn’t notice.
如果你真的看过他们最好的现场表演，仔细观察，你会发现他们搞砸了一些事情，但你只是不会注意到。
[inaudible 03:10:07].
[听不清 03:10:07]。
They just go right through it.
他们只是直接通过它。
[inaudible 03:10:08].
[听不清 03:10:08]。
It’s about the live performance and that’s how you know it’s real.
这是关于现场表演的，这就是你如何知道它是真实的。
Yeah.
是的。
So I think if you could really just lean into it more, really work on the identity part because you’ve got the desire.
所以我认为如果你真的可以更多地投入其中，真正在身份部分上下功夫，因为你有这个愿望。
3:10:11 You want to play guitar.
你想弹吉他。
But as soon as you say, “Yeah, but I can’t play live,” you just chopped off your leg at the start of the race.
但一旦你说：“是的，但我不能现场比赛”，你就在比赛开始时砍掉了你的腿。
If you say, “I don’t know,” you just chopped off your other leg.
如果你说“我不知道”，你就砍掉了另一条腿。
Yep, yep, yep.
是的，是的，是的。
You’re doing this to yourself.
你正在对自己这样做。
Yeah.
是的。
You’re literally doing this to yourself.
你实际上是在对自己做这件事。
3:10:33 I’m not meaning just you.
我指的不仅仅是你。
I mean anybody who’s-
我的意思是任何人——
Yeah.
是的。
3:10:37 Broadly speaking.
从广义上讲。
Yeah.
是的。
Who pauses, who hesitates.
谁停顿，谁犹豫。
You don’t have to have doubts.
你不必有疑问。
Why would you have a doubt?
你为什么会有疑问？
Because you know the process now.
因为你现在知道这个过程了。
It’s like if I don’t know how to do something, I know how to figure it out.
就像如果我不知道如何做某事，我知道如何解决它。
I didn’t know how I was going to do that scene with him jumping and flipping.
我不知道该怎么拍他跳跃和翻转的场景。
I didn’t know that.
我不知道。
But do I have doubt that I’m going to go in there and be able to do it?
但我是否怀疑我是否能够进入那里并能够做到这一点？
If you say that you do, now you’re a doubtful person.
如果你说你这样做，那么你现在就是一个可疑的人。
That’s how powerful that is.
这就是它的力量有多大。
But if you say, “No, I don’t have any doubt because I know I’m going to figure it out when I get there..”.
但如果你说，“不，我没有任何疑问，因为我知道当我到达那里时我会弄清楚......”。
Somehow it’ll fall on my lap.
不知怎的，它会落在我的腿上。
I trust the process.
我相信这个过程。
You don’t have to know.
你不必知道。
So if you trust the process that you’ll figure it out.
因此，如果您相信这个过程，您就会找到答案。
But here’s the thing, sometimes you fail and there’s audience.
但事情是这样的，有时你失败了，但还有观众。
Yeah.
是的。
3:11:16 Then you get four rooms.
然后你会得到四个房间。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
3:11:18 But then-
但接下来——
And then what happens?
然后会发生什么？
[inaudible 03:11:20].
[听不清 03:11:20]。
3:11:20 Right?
对吗？
Don’t blink.
不要眨眼。
Don’t blink, and then you go sift through the failure.
不要眨眼，然后你就可以筛选失败的地方。
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
And you go, “Wait a minute, what did I get out of that?”
然后你会说：“等一下，我从中得到了什么？”
Yeah.
是的。
3:11:25 I’ve done that a bunch.
我已经做过很多次了。
It was great.
太棒了。
Look, what’s the worst that can happen?
看看，可能发生的最坏的情况是什么？
3:11:27 You go on a stage and you bomb.
你走上舞台，然后你就爆炸了。
It’s not going to be the first stage.
这不会是第一阶段。
And it’s one of those you can talk about so that when you do the next one…
这是你可以谈论的其中之一，这样当你做下一个时......
And sometimes they all go right.
有时它们都进展顺利。
I’ve had a couple shows, we did a couple shows where we had video cameras set up for the second day.
我举办了几场演出，我们做了几场演出，我们在第二天设置了摄像机。
I said, “Let’s not film the first day because we’re going to be fucking just finding our feet.
我说：“我们别拍第一天了，因为我们要他妈的才能站稳脚跟。
Let’s film the second day.” First day it was flawless.
第二天我们就去拍吧。”第一天一切都完美无缺。
Of course.
当然。
Flawless.
完美无瑕。
Of course.
当然。
Because no cameras.
因为没有相机。
Of course.
当然。
You just go.
你就走吧。
Yeah.
是的。
Second day we weren’t as into it as we had just done it.
第二天我们不像刚做的那样热衷于它。
3:11:55 It felt like the second take.
感觉就像是第二次拍摄。
It just didn’t have the magic.
它只是没有魔力。
And that’s the one that’s recorded and we’re like, oh, kicking ourselves.
这就是被记录下来的，我们就像，哦，踢自己。
We didn’t film both nights.
两个晚上我们都没有拍摄。
We should have filmed both nights.
我们应该两个晚上都拍摄。
I love how much of a mess this human existence life is.
我喜欢人类的生存是多么的混乱。
3:12:09 You’ve talked about the importance of journaling because-
你谈到了写日记的重要性，因为——
So important.
如此重要。
Living is-
生活就是——
Reliving.
重温。
Reliving.
重温。
3:12:19 I love that phrase.
我喜欢这句话。
I came up with that because it’s like, wow, I see so many people who get after you for filming a concert and they go, “Live in the moment.” I’m like, “Dude, counterintuitive.” The moment goes by like this.
我想出这个主意是因为，哇，我看到很多人因为你拍摄音乐会而追随你，他们说，“活在当下。”我说：“伙计，违反直觉。”这一刻就这样过去了。
3:12:21 We’re not going to remember any of this.
我们不会记住这些。
The fact that we taped it, thank God, because later on it’s going to be a file photo of me remembering you…
感谢上帝，我们把它录了下来，因为后来这将成为我记住你的档案照片……
Three pound meat computer.
三斤肉电脑。
All I’m going to have is a file photo of you may be in a suit and you picturing me in maybe a black T-shirt.
我所拥有的只是一张你可能穿着西装的档案照片，而你想象中的我可能穿着一件黑色 T 恤。
And the metadata narrative is going to say, had a great talk about, if we remember, creativity.
如果我们还记得的话，元数据的叙述将会说，关于创造力进行了一次精彩的讨论。
Yeah.
是的。
3:12:53 Yeah.
是的。
Your brain doesn’t remember.
你的大脑不记得了。
But when I pull up old home movies, I show my kids that I just found and they’re like, they don’t remember it.
但是当我拿出旧的家庭电影时，我向我的孩子们展示我刚刚找到的东西，他们就像，他们不记得了。
I don’t remember filming it.
我不记得拍过它。
And it’s like new adventures of.
这就像新的冒险。
It becomes iconic and it sticks in our head.
它成为标志性的，并牢牢地印在我们的脑海里。
And all our jokes are based on old things that we used to do and say.
我们所有的笑话都是基于我们过去做过和说过的旧事。
So living is reliving.
所以，生活就是重温。
So keeping a journal is very important.
所以记日记非常重要。
Because I found that anything that passed 15 years, it’s like I’m reading someone else’s journal.
因为我发现任何过去15年的事情，就像我在读别人的日记一样。
I’m like, “I didn’t even know that’s where I got that guitar.
我想，“我什至不知道那是我得到那把吉他的地方。
I thought I bought that guitar.
我以为我买了那把吉他。
It was given to me?
是给我的吗？
It’s like a $10,000 Santana…
就像一辆价值 10,000 美元的桑塔纳……
It was given to me my birthday by the studio that I made that movie?
这是我制作那部电影的工作室给我的生日？
How did I not remember that?” It’s crazy what you don’t remember.
我怎么不记得了？”你不记得的事情太疯狂了。
And the brain is very, it’s not a very reliable computer.
而且大脑非常，它不是一台非常可靠的计算机。
It’s made out of fucking butter.
它是用他妈的黄油做的。
That’s a really profound idea that so much of our life is lived through replaying our memories and then watching stuff is one of the ways to refresh, give some more texture and details.
这是一个非常深刻的想法，我们生活的大部分时间都是通过重播我们的记忆来度过的，然后观看东西是刷新、提供更多纹理和细节的方法之一。
Makes it iconic.
使其成为标志性的。
Yeah.
是的。
It makes it iconic in your life and part of your life.
它使其成为您生活中的标志和生活的一部分。
3:13:53 Otherwise, it just went by.
否则，就这样过去了。
It went by.
它过去了。
I’ll ask people, we just had a really, ” What did we do last week?
我会问人们，我们刚刚真的有一个问题，“我们上周做了什么？
What did we do last Wednesday?” And they’re like, [inaudible 03:14:04].
上周三我们做了什么？”他们就像，[听不清 03:14:04]。
I can tell you because I wrote it down, but I’m not going to remember.
我可以告诉你，因为我把它写下来了，但我不会记住。
And then when you go through your journal, I go back and I find, wow, life-changing thing happened Friday.
然后当你翻阅日记时，我回头发现，哇，周五发生了改变生活的事情。
Another life-changing thing I didn’t know at the time until now I know that that really set me on a new…
另一件改变生活的事情我当时并不知道，直到现在我知道这真的让我踏上了新的……
Happened Saturday.
发生在星期六。
And another big freaking thing happened on Sunday.
周日又发生了一件大事。
They come in threes sometime.
有时他们三人一组。
You start being able to predict the future a little bit because you see the patterns and it’s pretty wild to do that.
你开始能够稍微预测未来，因为你看到了模式，而且这样做是非常疯狂的。
And I swear I’ve talked to people, big group of people, 500 people.
我发誓我已经和很多人谈过了，有 500 人。
3:14:36 “How many people here journal?” Two hands, three hands.
“这里有多少人写日记？”两只手，三只手。
I couldn’t believe it.
我简直不敢相信。
It’s like, man, if there’s anything I can impart on you, is journal.
就像，伙计，如果我能告诉你什么的话，那就是日记。
Your life is way more interesting than you think because it’s not going to feel like anything while it’s going by.
你的生活比你想象的要有趣得多，因为它在过去的过程中不会给人任何感觉。
But in retrospect, you look back.
但回想起来，你会回头看。
I can just go through, I keep a journal, one file per year.
我可以简单地回顾一下，我写日记，每年一个文件。
So I started a new one in 2025.
所以我在 2025 年开始了一项新的工作。
If I’m going to look up, I’m going to do a Director’s Chair episode.
如果我要抬头看，我会拍一集《导演椅》。
I look up Michael Mann, Michael Mann, Michael Mann.
我查找迈克尔·曼、迈克尔·曼、迈克尔·曼。
All the conversations we had since ’94 that I wrote down that I felt and it was like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe we said that.” That’s how I knew about that thing with Quentin.
我写下了自 94 年以来我们的所有谈话，我的感受就像是，“天哪，我不敢相信我们这么说。”我就是这样知道昆汀的事情的。
3:15:11 I’d forgotten about that story with Quentin saying, “Ah, Pulp Fiction.” I’d forgotten that because from the moment I asked him that question to the success at Cannes was very quick.
我忘记了昆汀说的那个故事，“啊，低俗小说。”我忘记了这一点，因为从我问他这个问题的那一刻起，他就在戛纳取得了成功。
So it was a lost moment in time where I had it recorded down to the time, down to the hour when I asked him that question.
所以这是一个失去的时刻，我把它记录下来，直到我问他这个问题的时间。
And he thought it wasn’t, he didn’t think that was the one for him.
他认为不是，他不认为那是适合他的。
Yeah.
是的。
3:15:30 And there’s a, I don’t know, when it’s private journaling, there’s an honesty, there’s an innocence about the dreams you have about the future, the conceptions you have about the future.
我不知道，当它是私人日记时，有一种诚实，有一种关于你对未来的梦想、你对未来的构想的纯真。
That’s what this thing is a journal.
这就是日记这个东西。
It’s just a journal.
这只是一本日记。
3:15:42 It’s like-
就像-
But the profundity that comes out of it.
但由此产生的深刻性。
3:15:44 Right?
正确的？
You look back and it’s crazy.
当你回头看时，你会发现这太疯狂了。
3:15:46 Yeah.
是的。
And so much I figured out [inaudible 03:15:50].
我想出了这么多 [听不清 03:15:50]。
I’m talking like a professor by the end of that.
到最后我会像教授一样说话。
I have people come up to me and they’re asking me all these questions about stuff I wrote in there and I’m like, “I wrote that in that book?
有人来找我，他们问我所有关于我在那里写的东西的问题，我想，“我在那本书里写了这些？
Shit, I was smart back then.
妈的，我当时就很聪明。
What happened?” I don’t remember half of that.
发生什么事了？我不记得一半了。
But I think that it’s the same thing.
但我认为这是同一件事。
When you go to teach someone, your mouth opens and stuff comes out.
当你去教导某人时，你的嘴张开，就会说出一些东西。
I am always taping myself when I go to give a talk because that’s also the pipe working.
当我去演讲时，我总是把自己录下来，因为这也是管道工作的原因。
Someone else is talking through you sometimes.
有时别人会通过你说话。
So the act of sharing, that’s why I’ve always liked to share information.
所以分享的行为，这就是我一直喜欢分享信息的原因。
Because the feedback loop is insane.
因为反馈循环是疯狂的。
Me inspiring [inaudible 03:16:24] DJ to go write.
我鼓舞人心 [听不清 03:16:24] DJ 去写。
He writes the script in three days, comes back, tells me, “Now I’m doing that method.”
他三天内写完剧本，回来告诉我，“现在我正在做那个方法。”
3:16:28 And it’s like, wow.
就像，哇。
People come back with their version.
人们带着他们的版本回来了。
And I love telling my kids stuff that I learned that I wish I could tell myself, but I can’t take a time machine.
我喜欢告诉我的孩子们我学到的东西，我希望我能告诉自己，但我不能乘坐时光机。
The closest thing is telling your kid because then they can take that information to process.
最接近的事情是告诉你的孩子，因为这样他们就可以处理这些信息。
So many times they’ve come back and said, “Wow, dad, the lesson you taught us about this, it’s really become big in our minds.” “Yeah, what was that?” And they tell me.
很多次他们回来后都会说：“哇，爸爸，你给我们上的这堂课，真的在我们的脑海里变得很重要。” “是啊，那是什么？”他们告诉我。
I’m like, “I never told you that.” They say, “Yeah, you told us…” “Well, I told you maybe 10% of that.
我想，“我从来没有告诉过你。”他们说，“是的，你告诉过我们……”“好吧，我告诉过你也许是其中的 10%。
All the rest you added.” “Oh yeah, well, we embellished it [inaudible 03:16:59].” They turned it into something else.
剩下的全是你加上去的。” “哦，是的，好吧，我们修饰了它 [听不清 03:16:59]。”他们把它变成了别的东西。
And it’s like, wow, that’s so cool.
就像，哇，那太酷了。
But yeah, that thing about reliving, that was one of my favorite ones.
但是，是的，关于重温的事情，那是我最喜欢的事情之一。
Just my mom turning 75 and not wanting to do anything for her 75th birthday.
只是我妈妈 75 岁了，不想为她的 75 岁生日做任何事情。
3:17:12 I said, “Why not?” She goes, “The whole family’s going to…
我说：“为什么不呢？”她说：“全家人都会……
You have 10 kids.
你有 10 个孩子。
They’re all going to want to do something for your 75th birthday.
他们都会想为您的 75 岁生日做点什么。
Nothing can top my 65th.” I was like, “What did we do on your 65th?” I didn’t even remember even.
没有什么能超过我的 65 岁了。”我当时想，“你 65 岁那年我们做了什么？”我什至都不记得了。
I’m the one who orchestrated it all.
我是精心策划这一切的人。
She goes, “Oh, you flew everyone in from all over the country.
她说：“哦，你把全国各地的所有人都接了过来。
You gave me a car.” I got to have a journal of that.
你给了我一辆车。”我得写一本日记。
I’m sure I have video.
我确定我有视频。
I go back 10 years, I see what tape I had it on, find the tape, pop the tape in.
我回到 10 年前，看看我用的是什么磁带，找到磁带，把磁带放进去。
Forgot about all this stuff.
忘记了所有这些事情。
So I cut together a ten-minute version of it, showed it at her 75th birthday.
所以我剪辑了一个十分钟的版本，在她 75 岁生日时展示。
Just watching the old one.
只看旧的。
Everybody was like, “Oh my God, look how young everybody was.
每个人都说，“天啊，看看每个人都多么年轻。
Look how small the nieces and nephews were.”
看看侄女侄子们多小啊。”
3:17:52 She starts bawling as soon as she gets the key, the gift of the key in the video, because she realizes now what it’s going to mean that she’s going to get this car.
她一拿到钥匙（视频中钥匙的礼物）就开始大哭，因为她现在意识到她将得到这辆车意味着什么。
And so it’s like, wow, let’s just play the old tapes.
所以这就像是，哇，让我们播放旧磁带吧。
We don’t even have to do anything anymore.
我们甚至不需要再做任何事情了。
We banked so much amazing stuff that we’ve all forgotten.
我们储存了太多令人惊叹的东西，以至于我们都忘记了。
That my kids just love watching their old home movies.
我的孩子们就是喜欢看他们的老家庭电影。
They hardly remember any of it, but even a VHS to them is virtual reality.
他们几乎不记得任何事情，但即使是录像带对他们来说也是虚拟现实。
Because compared to our memories, it is virtual reality.
因为与我们的记忆相比，它是虚拟的现实。
They’re leaning into the screen to see what’s around the corner and they’re remembering the place and the sounds.
他们靠在屏幕上看看拐角处有什么，他们正在记住这个地方和声音。
And they say, “Oh, we left the living room.
他们说：“哦，我们离开了客厅。
It’s like we’re there.” It’s like, wow.
就好像我们就在那里一样。”就像，哇。
I was always afraid they would see this old footage and go, “Ah, this is dog shit.
我总是担心他们会看到这段旧镜头并说：“啊，这是狗屎。
What kind of camera was that?” The limitations of it.
那是什么相机？”它的局限性。
You put up one of those files on your screen, it’s this big on your laptop now.
你把其中一个文件放在屏幕上，现在它在你的笔记本电脑上就这么大了。
3:18:46 That’s how low-res shit was back then, but that didn’t matter.
这就是当时低分辨率的情况，但这并不重要。
It’s like compared to our memories, that stuff, living is reliving.
就像与我们的记忆相比，生活就是重温。
Pull up that, shoot as much as you can, take as many pictures, but write the journal because you’ll have a picture.
拉起它，尽可能多地拍摄，拍摄尽可能多的照片，但要写日记，因为你会有一张照片。
Swear.
发誓。
You’re not going to know what it’s from even 10 years from now, you won’t know what that picture’s from.
即使 10 年后你也不会知道它的来源，你不会知道那张照片的来源。
You read the diary, you go, “Oh, that’s what that is.
你读了日记，你会说：“哦，就是这样。
Oh my God.” You can piece together all these things that are important to you or that become more important with time, actually, and you know what’s important later compared to what’s been happening at the time.
天啊。”事实上，你可以把所有这些对你来说重要的事情或者随着时间的推移而变得更加重要的事情拼凑起来，并且与当时发生的事情相比，你知道后来的事情是重要的。
To add on top of that, so journaling is a raw, or home films is a raw projection of what’s going on in the moment.
除此之外，日记是原始的，或者家庭电影是对当下发生的事情的原始投影。
3:19:14 I think what’s also really powerful because I’ve done that, is to do a high effort description of where your life is just for yourself.
我认为真正强大的是，因为我已经做到了这一点，那就是高度努力地描述你的生活只属于你自己。
So sometimes journaling is low effort.
所以有时写日记并不费力。
Yeah.
是的。
3:19:31 Sometimes it’s just, I just want to mark that we had this conversation.
有时只是，我只是想表明我们进行了这次谈话。
I had to go do something at five.
我五点钟得去办点事。
I did that.
我就是这么做的。
Met somebody that, I know last night I met somebody that’s going to be life changing.
遇到了一个人，我知道昨晚我遇到了一个将改变生活的人。
I’m going to write a little bit more on that because I could just, now I know, but I’m going to just record it so later if I look it up.
我将就此多写一点，因为我可以，现在我知道了，但我会记录下来，以便稍后查找。
So one of the cool things you could do is, for example, somebody, Jamie Mr. Beast does these videos, which are great.
因此，你可以做的一件很酷的事情就是，例如，有人，杰米野兽先生制作了这些很棒的视频。
3:19:45 I think it’s a great exercise to do for yourself, which is a video he records for himself that he doesn’t look at to be published 20 years from now.
我认为这对你自己来说是一个很好的练习，这是他为自己录制的视频，他不打算在 20 年后发布。
“This is a message to myself 20 years from now.
“这是写给20年后的自己的信息。
Here’s where I hope you end up.” You’re basically a younger version of yourself speaking to an older version, and then you get…
这就是我希望你最终能到达的地方。”你基本上是一个年轻版本的自己在与一个旧版本说话，然后你会得到……
Time flies and you get to a point where it’s like, holy shit, it has been 10 years, it has been 20 years.
时间过得真快，你会觉得，天啊，已经过去10年了，已经过去20年了。
You get to listen to a younger version of yourself.
你可以聆听年轻版本的自己。
It would’ve been hilarious if you shot videos like that to yourself because of just the incredible journey your career has been on.
如果你为自己拍摄这样的视频，那会很搞笑，因为你的职业生涯经历了令人难以置信的旅程。
I know.
我知道。
And just to think about that, the delta, the difference between what your dreams were and where you ended up.
想想这个，三角洲，你的梦想和你最终的目标之间的差异。
3:20:28 Usually you outdo yourself in many ways.
通常你会在很多方面超越自己。
Sometimes your life goes in a totally different trajectory and the result is kind of funny.
有时你的生活会走上完全不同的轨迹，结果会很有趣。
It’s a nice illustration of the non-linearity of life.
这是生活非线性的一个很好的例证。
I would film stuff like that with my kids.
我会和我的孩子们一起拍摄类似的东西。
3:20:51 I couldn’t do it, but I would film my kids saying, “Hey, turn to the camera now and say, ‘Hey, Rebel, it’s me Rebel talking to Rebel in the future.'”
我做不到，但我会拍下我的孩子们说的：“嘿，现在转向镜头说，‘嘿，叛逆者，将来是我叛逆者和叛逆者说话。’”
Yeah.
是的。
So you have shot stuff like that.
所以你拍摄了类似的东西。
Yeah.
是的。
Cool.
凉爽的。
And then they show them-
然后他们向他们展示——
Cool.
酷。
That 10 years later and they’re like, “Whoa,” to see it talking to them and saying.
十年后，当他们看到它对他们说话时，他们会说“哇”。
3:21:04 And I would do this thing where I would film them watching it and then pan off so that 10 years later I could get, “Hey, Rebel,” him reacting, pan off to the new Rebel watching it.
我会做这样的事情，我会拍摄他们观看它的过程，然后摇镜头，这样十年后我就可以得到，“嘿，反叛者”，他的反应，然后镜头转向新的反叛者观看它。
It just keeps going.
它只是继续下去。
So I have one like that where it just-
所以我有一个这样的东西，它只是-
Love that.
喜欢那个。
Keeps panning and they’re-
继续平移，他们是-
Love that.
喜欢那个。
Watching themselves within the movie, within the movie, within the movie.
在电影中观看自己，在电影中，在电影中。
[inaudible 03:21:29].
[听不清 03:21:29]。
It’s like an ongoing project.
这就像一个正在进行的项目。
3:21:29 It’s just so fun to just play with memory and make you realize how fast time moves and to go, they go, “I kind of remember that, but I don’t remember being that tiny when I had that memory.
玩弄记忆真是太有趣了，让你意识到时间过得有多快，然后他们说，“我还记得那件事，但我不记得当我有那段记忆时我是那么小。
It’s wild how time moves.” And it makes them feel much more precious about how quick time moves and how important every little moment is because you see the fragility of it too.
时间的流逝真是太疯狂了。”这让他们觉得时间过得有多快，每一个小时刻有多重要，因为你也看到了它的脆弱性。
Does it make you sad?
这会让你伤心吗？
3:21:57 Does it break your heart that the number of memories we get to create is finite, that this life ends?
我们能够创造的记忆数量是有限的，生命结束了，这会让你心碎吗？
Eventually the story is over?
故事终于结束了？
I had this theory.
我有这个理论。
3:22:08 I’m going to put this in a movie.
我要把这个拍成电影。
I don’t think I’ve ever said this before.
我想我以前从来没有说过这个。
Because I woke up from a dream and it was like trying to remember it.
因为我从梦中醒来，就像试图记住它一样。
You’re like, “God, it was so real.” If you don’t write it down right away, it kind of fades away.
你会说：“天哪，这太真实了。”如果你不立即写下来，它就会消失。
But while you’re dreaming it, it’s really real.
但当你在做梦时，它却是真实的。
And it’s like you can almost see the walls.
就像你几乎可以看到墙壁一样。
By the time I went to go tell somebody, it’s like, shit, I forgot most of it.
当我去告诉别人的时候，就像，妈的，我忘了大部分了。
I wonder if that’s what it’s like when you wake up in your consciousness after you die.
我想知道你死后在意识中醒来时是否是这样的。
You wake up in your next consciousness getting ready to move into whatever your next body is and you’re like, “Wow, I was a filmmaker?
当你在下一个意识中醒来，准备进入下一个身体时，你会想，“哇，我是一名电影制片人？
I had five kids?
我有五个孩子？
And oh well, I’m go be a fish now.” It’s like a dream.
哦，好吧，我现在要变成一条鱼了。”这就像一个梦。
It’s like that, gone that way.
就这样，就这样过去了。
And it’s like that’s what past lives are.
这就像前世一样。
They’re like distant memories, like a dream that’s faded away.
它们就像遥远的记忆，就像褪色的梦。
3:22:57 That’s why you barely feel remnants of it.
这就是为什么你几乎感觉不到它的残留。
Do I feel sad about it?
我为此感到难过吗？
When I tell people they flip out when I tell them that.
当我告诉别人时，他们会发怒。
I say I want a character to be like that.
我说我想要一个这样的角色。
He’s dying.
他快死了。
He’s like, “I don’t want to forget this dream.
他说：“我不想忘记这个梦想。
I don’t want to forget.
我不想忘记。
Let me wake up.
让我醒来吧。
Don’t let me wake up.”
别让我醒来。”
But you forget, especially the moment you try to tell somebody.
但你会忘记，尤其是当你试图告诉别人的时候。
Yeah, [inaudible 03:23:15].
是的，[听不清 03:23:15]。
You tell the next fish over.
你告诉下一条鱼。
Yeah.
是的。
3:23:16 The next [inaudible 03:23:16] going to be a fish next.
下一个 [听不清 03:23:16] 接下来将是一条鱼。
But yeah, yeah.
但是是的，是的。
It feels like I’m almost sad about it.
感觉我几乎为此感到难过。
But then it just makes you even more double down to be precious about the life you’re in now.
但这只会让你更加珍惜现在的生活。
What do you think is the meaning?
你觉得有什么意义呢？
And record it.
并记录下来。
3:23:27 Record it.
记录下来。
What do you think is the meaning of this whole thing of life?
你认为这整个生命的意义是什么？
3:23:29 Why are we here?
我们为什么在这里？
[inaudible 03:23:35] why we’re here.
[听不清 03:23:35] 我们为什么在这里。
3:23:35 I really feel like my kids and I were just talking about this last night.
我真的觉得我的孩子们和我昨晚刚刚谈论过这件事。
We were just blown away.
我们简直被震撼了。
We did this Asterion astrology thing, which is the oldest form of astrology.
我们做了 Asterion 占星术，这是最古老的占星术形式。
It just nails each person.
它只是钉住每个人。
And it’s like, yeah, because when you have a kid, you realize right away, “This isn’t my kid.
就像，是的，因为当你有了孩子时，你会立即意识到，“这不是我的孩子。
This is not my…
这不是我的……
I’m just in charge of him.
我只是负责他。
It’s a completely different soul.
这是一个完全不同的灵魂。
He’s a different soul that ended up in my hands.” There’s physical characteristics that get passed on because of just how biology works.
他是一个不同的灵魂，最终落入了我的手中。”由于生物学的运作方式，有些身体特征会被遗传。
Even sometimes posture and movement is the same, but the actual person is somebody else.
甚至有时候姿势、动作都是一样的，但实际的人却是别人。
And all the kids, I have five kids and I had nine brothers and sisters, they’re all different.
所有的孩子，我有五个孩子，我有九个兄弟姐妹，他们都很不同。
And you realize we made a pact in a past life to gather together because every time it’s like, it’s so good you were born in this family because you were given free rein to go find who you’re really supposed to be and you find out everyone is doing what they were supposed to be doing.
你意识到我们在前世订下了聚在一起的约定，因为每次都会觉得，你出生在这个家庭真是太好了，因为你可以自由地去寻找你真正应该成为的人，你发现每个人都在做他们应该做的事情。
3:24:33 But what’s cool, almost like this clarity you get by just saying it.
但最酷的是，几乎就像你只需说出来就能得到的清晰度一样。
They now know that they were always supposed to be this creative person and now they can double down on it because they know that’s who they were supposed to be.
他们现在知道他们一直应该是一个有创造力的人，现在他们可以加倍努力，因为他们知道他们应该成为这样的人。
They don’t have to have any doubt anymore.
他们不必再有任何怀疑。
They don’t have to wonder, well, am I supposed to be more business minded or can I be creative?
他们不必想知道，我应该更有商业头脑还是可以更有创造力？
Doesn’t that sound kind of frivolous?
这听起来是不是有点轻浮？
Is that a real job?
这是一份真正的工作吗？
Can I do that?
我可以这样做吗？
Now they realize, no, you’re supposed to be doing that for these, these, these, these reasons, and now they can double down.
现在他们意识到，不，你应该因为这些、这些、这些、这些原因而这样做，现在他们可以加倍努力。
You can skip all that and just decide I feel like I want to be that person, so I’m just going to declare I am that person.
你可以跳过这一切，直接决定我想成为那个人，所以我要宣布我就是那个人。
And as soon as you say it, you are that, and tomorrow your activities will conform to that.
一旦你说出来，你就是那个，明天你的活动就会符合那个。
That’s how powerful that decision is.
这就是这个决定的力量有多大。
3:25:16 So when you walk out of here, it’s going to be with a complete commitment, “I’m a technical and creative person.” Like my first boss.
因此，当你走出这里时，你会全身心投入，“我是一个技术和创造力的人。”就像我的第一个老板一样。
I’m unstoppable because my boss told me that and he was right.
我势不可挡，因为我的老板告诉我，他是对的。
I became technical and creative and you’re just unstoppable.
我变得技术性和创造力都很强，而你是势不可挡的。
You can just keep going and just go, “I’m unstoppable.” That doesn’t mean you’re going to use your powers for bad, but you’ve just changed your life by just declaring that.
你可以继续前进，然后说：“我势不可挡。”这并不意味着你会利用你的力量来做坏事，但你只是通过声明改变了你的生活。
And I’m also a creative person who lives his life creatively.
我也是一个有创造力的人，创造性地过着自己的生活。
I’m going to find creative ways to use that technology.
我将找到创造性的方法来使用该技术。
If somebody says, “You’re not the same kind of artist I was expecting,” that’s their own opinion.
如果有人说，“你不是我期待的那种艺术家”，那是他们自己的观点。
Don’t blink.
不要眨眼。
Just keep going.
继续吧。
All these things that you’ve learned that people were supposed to tell you along the way, they’re telling you for a reason.
你学到的所有这些人们应该一路告诉你的事情，他们告诉你都是有原因的。
Anytime you got pushed, if you go back to your life at your really critical moments in your life where you went that way instead of that way, there was probably somebody there who said something to you that kind of pushed you.
每当你受到推动时，如果你在生命中真正关键的时刻回到你的生活，你走的是那条路而不是那条路，那里可能有人对你说了一些推动你的话。
3:26:16 There was one guy when I was in high school.
我高中的时候有一个男生。
It was senior year.
那是高年级。
I wrote a paper.
我写了一篇论文。
And I wasn’t a great writer at all.
我根本不是一个伟大的作家。
I wrote a paper for a Latin American studies class, gave it to the teacher and he said, “Wow, you’re going to be rich and famous in four years based on what I read.” I was like, “Really?” I’m 17 or 18.
我为拉丁美洲研究课程写了一篇论文，交给老师，他说：“哇，根据我读到的内容，你将在四年内变得富有和出名。”我当时想，“真的吗？”我17岁或18岁。
Four years later, I did Mariachi and I went to him later at a reunion and I said, “You called it.
四年后，我拍了《流浪乐队》，后来在一次聚会上我去找他，我说：“是你说的。
You said I was going to be…
你说过我会成为……
Why did you say that?” And he was like, “I said that?
你为什么这么说？他说：“我这么说的？
I [inaudible 03:26:49].” He looked like he would never say that to somebody.
我[听不清 03:26:49]。”他看上去永远不会对别人说这种话。
You’d think he would own it and say, “Oh yeah, I knew and I told you.” No.
你可能会认为他会拥有它并说：“哦，是的，我知道并且我告诉过你。”不。
He looked like he didn’t even know who I was.
他看起来甚至不知道我是谁。
He was acting like he never would’ve said that in a million years.
他表现得好像一百万年内他都不会这么说。
So again, sometimes things come out of our mouth that’s not us, that comes through us.
再说一遍，有时从我们嘴里说出来的东西不是我们，而是通过我们而来的。
So if you think of it that way, why are we here?
如果你这么想的话，我们为什么会在这里？
We’re here for a reason.
我们来这里是有原因的。
We’re going to get nudged along.
我们会被推动。
Listen to the signs.
听听迹象。
Own who you’re supposed to be because you are that person.
拥有你应该成为的人，因为你就是那个人。
Don’t let your human doubt get in the way.
不要让你的人性怀疑妨碍你。
That’s like the guy closing the pipe.
这就像那个关闭管道的人。
“I don’t know if I’m really creative.
“我不知道我是否真的有创造力。
I don’t know if I’m really a businessman.” And you’re just closing the pipe.
我不知道我是否真的是一个商人。”而你只是关闭管道。
You’re not going to let it flow.
你不会让它流动。
Just be a good pipe.
做一个好管子吧。
Just say, “I just want to be a good pipe.
只要说：“我只想成为一支好烟斗。
Clean, open.” And then that’s when the magic happens.
干净，开放。”然后魔法就发生了。
And no matter what, don’t blink.
无论如何，都不要眨眼。
Don’t blink.
不要眨眼。
3:27:32 No matter how many…
无论有多少……
That dude was getting so much shit thrown at him.
那家伙被人扔了那么多屎。
I wish you knew that time period, because then you would go like, “Yeah, that’s right.”
我希望你知道那个时间段，因为那时你会说，“是的，没错。”
It’s incredible.
太不可思议了。
It was unbelievable.
这太令人难以置信了。
3:27:41 I can’t even convey.
我什至无法传达。
There was no internet and stuff back then.
那时没有互联网和其他东西。
This was literal press, reviews, public.
这就是字面上的新闻、评论、公众。
It was like, why are they targeting this guy?
就像，他们为什么要针对这个家伙？
They just did not like, he just had unprecedented success and was a really great guy and was making amazing shit.
他们只是不喜欢，他只是取得了前所未有的成功，是一个非常伟大的人，并且做出了惊人的事情。
So it was the triple threat of make people jealous and pissed off.
所以这是让人嫉妒和生气的三重威胁。
Well, he’s one of the great artists of all time.
嗯，他是有史以来最伟大的艺术家之一。
3:28:05 So are you.
你也是。
It’s a huge honor to talk to you.
很荣幸与您交谈。
Thank you for everything you’re doing in the world, for creating in the world and for inspiring millions of people to also be creators in the world, and for your new project that’s bringing people in.
感谢你们在世界上所做的一切，感谢你们在世界上的创造，感谢你们激励数百万人成为世界上的创造者，感谢你们的新项目吸引了人们。
Robert, as I told you, I’m a huge fan.
罗伯特，正如我告诉你的，我是它的超级粉丝。
I appreciate that.
我很欣赏这一点。
It’s a huge honor to talk to you, brother.
很荣幸能和你交谈，兄弟。
So great talking with you.
和你聊天真是太好了。
3:28:23 Great questions.
很好的问题。
Here you go.
干得好。
Change your life.
改变你的生活。
Thank you, brother.
谢谢你，兄弟。
3:28:27 Million dollars.
百万美元。
Yeah.
是的。
3:28:28 Right there.
就在那里。
Thank you for listening to this conversation with Robert Rodriguez.
感谢您收听与罗伯特·罗德里格斯的对话。
3:28:30 To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description.
为了支持这个播客，请在说明中查看我们的赞助商。
And now let me leave you with some words from Alfred Hitchcock.
现在让我向您介绍阿尔弗雷德·希区柯克的一些话。
In feature films, the director is God.
在故事片中，导演就是上帝。
In documentary films, God is the director.
在纪录片中，上帝是导演。
Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.
感谢您的聆听，并希望下次再见。
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- 官网Lex Fridman 官网本集页面
- 文稿官方 Transcript（lexfridman.com）
