European Civilization, 1648-1945 Lecture 5 | European Civilization, 1648-1945
Professor Paul Freedman: Alright, so you may be asking yourself, "Why are we reading the Confessions ?" I think I gave a preliminary answer before, but since it seems to be perhaps more appropriate for religious studies or philosophy, let me remind you why we're struggling through this.
保罗·弗里德曼教授：好吧，你可能会问自己，“我们为什么要读《忏悔录》？”我想我之前已经给出了初步的答案，但由于它似乎更适合宗教研究或哲学，让我提醒你为什么我们正在努力解决这个问题。
First, the impact of Christianity on the Roman Empire--that is to say, the social and intellectual setting of the rise of Christianity in the late fourth, early fifth centuries.
一是基督教对罗马帝国的影响，即四世纪末五世纪初基督教兴起的社会和思想背景。
The second is to understand some of the Christian moral and doctrinal problems and their implications.
第二是了解一些基督教道德和教义问题及其含义。
Once again, we're not exactly interested in these for reasons of theology or morality, but we need to get into the minds of people at the time in order to understand what bothered them, what controversies they were involved in, and how those controversies indeed divided the Roman Empire and the successors to the Roman Empire.
再说一次，出于神学或道德的原因，我们对这些并不完全感兴趣，但我们需要进入当时人们的思想，以了解什么困扰着他们，他们卷入了哪些争议，以及这些争议如何确实分裂了罗马帝国和罗马帝国的继承者。
Some of those problems--well, under that second heading of Christian moral and doctrinal problems, let me just mention three, which by no means exhausts them, but are three that we can sort of, if not identify with, I think see their importance.
其中一些问题——好吧，在基督教道德和教义问题的第二个标题下，让我只提三个，这绝不是穷尽它们，但我认为这三个问题我们可以（如果不是认同的话）看到它们的重要性。
One, the problem of evil.Second, the relation between body and soul.And three, the Christian understanding of sin and redemption.
一，邪恶的问题。二，身体与灵魂的关系。三，基督教对罪和救赎的理解。
Now, it turns out these are all aspects of the same problem, and they are dealt with in Augustine's works most thoroughly, more thoroughly than any other thinker of the ancient world.
现在，事实证明，这些都是同一问题的各个方面，奥古斯丁的著作对这些问题的处理比古代世界任何其他思想家都更彻底、更彻底。
The third reason we're looking at this is the interaction between Christianity and classical culture and religion.
我们关注这个问题的第三个原因是基督教与古典文化和宗教之间的相互作用。
Roman life and politics, Augustine's career and his giving up his career, what that means, other ideas within the Roman Empire, such as Manicheaism, Platonism.
罗马的生活和政治，奥古斯丁的事业和他放弃事业，这意味着什么，罗马帝国内部的其他思想，比如摩尼教、柏拉图主义。
And then finally, this is a document of philosophical and psychological investigation.
最后，这是一份哲学和心理学研究的文献。
And while that is not our primary purpose here, you should not get out of a liberal arts college program without reading this and pondering it a little.
虽然这不是我们的主要目的，但你不应该在没有阅读本文并稍微思考一下的情况下就退出文理学院课程。
This can be summarized in terms of the importance of the humanities, even, or of philosophical investigation, as opposed to mere investigation of natural phenomena, in words that Augustine uses in Book X, which we have not read.
这可以用人文学科的重要性来概括，甚至可以用哲学研究的重要性来概括，而不仅仅是对自然现象的研究，用奥古斯丁在第十卷中使用的词语来说，我们还没有读过这本书。
After Book IX, Book X is a turning.
第九册之后，第十册是一个转折。
It discusses time and the meaning of time.
它讨论了时间和时间的意义。
Books XI, XII, and XIII are a commentary on Genesis.
第十一、十二、十三卷是对创世记的注释。
Worth reading, if you like, and interesting to think about how they do or do not mesh with the more confessional parts of the Confession .
如果您愿意，值得一读，并且有趣的是思考它们如何与《忏悔录》中更忏悔的部分相吻合或不相吻合。
But in Book X, he says, "Men go out and gaze in astonishment at high mountains, the huge waves of the sea, the broad reaches of rivers, the ocean that encircles the world, or the stars in their courses, but they pay no attention to themselves." They are busy looking at external phenomena and not examining their own heart.
但在第十卷中，他说：“人们走出去，惊讶地看着高山、大海的巨浪、宽阔的河流、环绕世界的海洋、或运行中的星星，却没有注意到自己。”他们只顾着看外在的现象，却忽略了省察自己的内心。
And if the Confessions is anything, it is certainly an examination of the author's heart.
如果说《忏悔录》有什么意义的话，那它无疑是对作者内心的审视。
But it's not an examination of his heart in a purely emotional sense, in the way we're familiar with in so-called confessional literature.
但这并不是纯粹情感意义上对他内心的审视，就像我们在所谓的忏悔文学中所熟悉的那样。
I had a tough upbringing.
我的成长经历很艰难。
This happened to me.
这发生在我身上。
That happened to me.
这发生在我身上。
I struggled with addiction.
我与毒瘾作斗争。
I beat my kids.
我打败了我的孩子。
Now I'm a great person.
现在我是一个伟大的人了。
Whatever.
任何。
This is an intellectual investigation as well as an emotional investigation.
这是一次理智的考察，也是一次情感的考察。
And indeed, Augustine doesn't see these as separate, or to the degree that he does, it's in a more complicated way than just saying intellectual versus non-intellectual.
事实上，奥古斯丁并不认为这些是分开的，或者就他所认为的程度而言，这比仅仅说智力与非智力更复杂。
He is an intellectual, obviously.
显然，他是一位知识分子。
And he awakened to being an intellectual, an experience that many of you may have had.
他觉醒为知识分子，你们很多人可能都有过这样的经历。
Remember, he reads this dialogue by Cicero, now lost, called the Hortensius .
请记住，他读过西塞罗的这段对话，现已失传，名为《霍滕修斯》。
And this convinces him that the life of the mind is the most important thing to pursue.
这让他相信心灵的生活才是最重要的追求。
And I wouldn't say that we all have had this experience, but maybe you--what was the point at which you discovered that you weren't like other people, that they lived more for immediate sensations, or pleasure, or what Augustine would call debauchery, and you wanted to read or think about stuff or do lab experiments?
我不会说我们都有过这种经历，但也许你——在什么时候你发现你不像其他人，他们更多地为了即时的感觉、快乐或奥古斯丁所说的放荡而生活，而你想要阅读或思考东西或做实验室实验？
I think the essence of Yale, if I understand it correctly, is I don't have to choose between fun and the intellectual life.
我认为耶鲁的本质，如果我理解正确的话，就是我不必在乐趣和智力生活之间做出选择。
So it's not actually perhaps relevant to your lives now, but particularly if you went to a public high school, grew up in a non-intellectual environment.
所以它实际上可能与你现在的生活无关，特别是如果你就读于公立高中，在非智力环境中长大。
Those of you whose parents are professors and went to some school where everybody was reading Latin at the age of six, I'm not talking to you.
你们中那些父母是教授并且在六岁时就读于每个人都在读拉丁语的学校的人，我不是在和你们说话。
But I'm talking to the vast majority who woke up one day and realized, either with pride or with dismay, "I'm different from other people." Ideas have meaning to me.
但我正在与绝大多数有一天醒来的人交谈，他们或自豪或沮丧地意识到，“我与其他人不同。”想法对我来说很有意义。
I'm going to suffer in life for that, though there're going to be some rewards.
我会为此在生活中受苦，尽管会有一些回报。
And I leave you to discern what the rewards are and to mull over what the suffering has been or maybe will continue to be.
我让你们去辨别回报是什么，并思考已经存在或可能会继续存在的痛苦。
I hope not, and I suspect you'll have an easier time of it.
我希望不会，而且我怀疑你会过得更轻松。
But this book is about a search for truth and a search that takes a number of wrong turns, at least from Augustine's opinion looking back on the situation when he wrote this in the 390s.
但这本书是关于对真理的探索，而且这种探索经历了许多错误的转折，至少从奥古斯丁回顾390年代写这本书时的情况来看是这样。
It's a confession of sin.
这是认罪。
It's also, as I said before, a confession of praise for the God whose love directed him back to the right path.
正如我之前所说，这也是对上帝的赞美，上帝的爱引导他回到正确的道路。
It is personal, but exemplary.
这是个人的，但却是典范。
It is about spiritual yearning, but it is also about intellectual yearning for truth.
它是关于精神上的向往，但也是关于理智上对真理的向往。
It's a book about the education of a young man and the adventures of this young man and what he learns from them.
这是一本关于一个年轻人的教育、这个年轻人的冒险经历以及他从中学到的东西的书。
Now, in the first place, he is both an intellectual and a passionate person.
现在，首先，他既是一个知识分子，又是一个充满激情的人。
He is someone who is unusually frank about his desires.
他是一个对自己的愿望异常坦率的人。
But notice that he's not just opposed to desire.
但请注意，他不仅仅反对欲望。
He is not someone who believes that desire, love are to be simply repressed or ignored.
他不是一个相信欲望、爱应该被简单地压抑或忽视的人。
Love is a psychological need.
爱是一种心理需要。
And he has a very discerning and interesting passage in describing his teenage years and his lusts when he frequented the brothels of Carthage.
他有一段非常有洞察力和有趣的段落来描述他的青少年时期和他经常光顾迦太基妓院时的欲望。
In Book III, at the beginning, he says, "I was in love with the idea of love." So he was not only in love, but he was in love with the idea of being an emotional being, of love that is both sexual and spiritual, in which these two things are not well marked off from each other.
在第三卷的开头，他说：“我爱上了爱的想法。”因此，他不仅爱上了爱情，而且爱上了作为一个情感存在的想法，爱上了性爱和精神爱，其中这两者并没有很好地区分。
He is also a believer in friendship.
他也是友谊的信徒。
And it's funny, because in our own culture, I think friendship has changed.
这很有趣，因为在我们自己的文化中，我认为友谊已经改变了。
When I started teaching, people had trouble dealing with the affection that he has for his friends, like Alypius and Nebridius, or the mysterious unnamed friend who dies after being baptized.
当我开始教书时，人们很难理解他对朋友的感情，比如阿利皮乌斯和尼布里狄乌斯，或者受洗后去世的神秘无名朋友。
Augustine is always surrounded by friends.
奥古斯丁总是被朋友包围。
Even in the most intimate moments, when he's undergoing this conversion, there're all sorts of people right around him.
即使在最亲密的时刻，当他经历这种转变时，他周围也有各种各样的人。
And as I said before, this seemed to be--the explanation was, well, he must've been homosexual, or he must have these desires, or maybe it's part of Roman culture of friendship.
正如我之前所说，这似乎是——解释是，嗯，他一定是同性恋，或者他一定有这些欲望，或者也许这是罗马友谊文化的一部分。
But in recent decades or years, where we have a culture of friendship, where your friends are extremely important--admittedly, if you have 900 of them, it's a little bit, perhaps, weakened--but I think we can understand some of this better than might have been the case a little while ago.
但在最近几十年或几年里，我们有一种友谊文化，你的朋友非常重要——诚然，如果你有 900 个朋友，那么它可能会被削弱一点——但我认为我们可以比不久前更好地理解其中的一些内容。
This friend who dies after being baptized, here is an example of another form of seriousness.
这位受洗后去世的朋友是另一种严肃的例子。
They go out and have fun together.
他们一起出去玩。
The friend becomes ill.
朋友生病了。
The friend is suddenly very serious.
朋友突然变得很严肃。
The friend gets baptized, because to be baptized, as with Constantine, means that you are committing yourself to a much more stringent and moral life than before.
这位朋友接受了洗礼，因为与君士坦丁一样，接受洗礼意味着你将致力于比以前更加严格和道德的生活。
And then he dies.
然后他死了。
And this certainly disturbs Augustine.
这无疑让奥古斯丁感到不安。
What is life all about?
生命到底是什么？
Any of you who've had the experience of contemporaries of yours who have died will understand this, I think.
我想，你们中任何一个有过与你们同时代人去世的经历的人都会理解这一点。
Augustine's also ambitious.
奥古斯丁也是雄心勃勃的。
He is a successful person.
他是一个成功的人。
Even though he's from a modest family--his father, a pagan or non-Christian, middle class official of North Africa, his mother, a Christian--He's clearly marked for success because of his unusual gifts, his unusual gifts being intellectual, ability to write, ability to argue.
尽管他来自一个普通的家庭——他的父亲是异教徒或非基督徒，是北非的中产阶级官员，他的母亲是基督徒——但他显然因为他非凡的天赋而获得了成功，他非凡的天赋是智力、写作能力和辩论能力。
He's marked out as extremely smart.
他被认为非常聪明。
And at that time, success for such a person, the course of success was through government service-- this is the era post-Diocletian, post-Constantine--and related particularly to a combination of rhetoric and law.
在那个时候，这样一个人的成功，成功的过程是通过政府服务——这是后戴克里先、后君士坦丁的时代——尤其与修辞和法律的结合有关。
This is not all that different from societies familiar to us.
这与我们熟悉的社会并没有什么不同。
That is to say, the training in law gives one access to a number of different kinds of political offices.
也就是说，法律培训使一个人有机会担任多种不同的政治职务。
But rhetoric is perhaps a little stranger to us.
但修辞学对我们来说也许有点陌生。
Rhetoric in this context means the art of persuasion.
在这种情况下，修辞意味着说服的艺术。
So it's very closely related to law and legal pleading.
因此，它与法律和法律诉讼密切相关。
It is the art of writing well, of writing elegantly, and it is very, very highly valued in the Roman Empire.
这是一门写得好、写得优雅的艺术，它在罗马帝国非常非常受重视。
His mother, Monica, is extremely pious.
他的母亲莫妮卡非常虔诚。
In fact, the first section, class rather that I taught--no, I guess I was a section leader--when I was a graduate student, the first section I had, my students were arguing with me about Augustine's patronizing attitude towards his mother.
事实上，第一节，而不是我教的课——不，我想我是一个课长——当我还是一名研究生时，我的第一节课，我的学生们正在和我争论奥古斯丁对他母亲的居高临下的态度。
And I said, well, no, he's not patronizing.
我说，好吧，不，他没有居高临下。
He's smarter than his mother.
他比他妈妈聪明。
His mother's just an ordinary person.
他的母亲只是一个普通人。
After all, Augustine becomes a saint, and his mother doesn't.
毕竟，奥古斯丁成为了圣人，而他的母亲却没有。
Some guy from Santa Monica Catholic School said, who do you think Santa Monica is?
圣莫尼卡天主教学校的一个人说，你认为圣莫尼卡是谁？
This is Augustine's mother.
这是奥古斯丁的母亲。
So anyway, I've learned.
所以无论如何，我已经学会了。
Augustine's mother is a saint.
奥古斯丁的母亲是一位圣人。
She is a more steadfast kind of person than Augustine.
她是一个比奥古斯丁更加坚定的人。
She's not someone who stays up all night wrestling with the problem of evil.
她不是一个彻夜不眠地与邪恶问题搏斗的人。
Nevertheless, she does not want him to be baptized.
然而，她不希望他受洗。
She wants him to be successful.
她希望他成功。
Like most mothers, she wants her child to be a good person.
和大多数母亲一样，她希望自己的孩子成为一个好人。
But even more than that, she wants her child to be a success.
但更重要的是，她希望自己的孩子能够成功。
And that means delaying baptism, because if he's going to be a success, he's going to have to be involved in the world of high government, and that may mean--well, that definitely means involvement in sinfulness, involvement in the shedding of blood, involvement in legal wrangling and stuff like that.
这意味着推迟洗礼，因为如果他想要成功，他就必须参与高级政府的世界，这可能意味着——嗯，这肯定意味着参与罪恶、参与流血、参与法律争论等等。
And so he is encouraged to lead a normal life, "normal" meaning, at least in his own retrospective view, sinful life.
因此，他被鼓励过正常的生活，“正常”的意思，至少在他自己的回顾看来，是有罪的生活。
This is what Augustine is giving up in his conversion.
这就是奥古斯丁在转变过程中所放弃的。
He is giving up a career.
他正在放弃事业。
He is giving up a social expectation of success or social definition of success.
他正在放弃对成功的社会期望或成功的社会定义。
He is giving up the pleasures attendant on that career, which range from parties to honors to sexual conquests and the whole life of a well-established member of the Roman elite.
他正在放弃职业生涯所带来的乐趣，从派对到荣誉，再到性征服，以及罗马精英中地位稳固的成员的整个生活。
What is bothering Augustine?
是什么困扰着奥古斯丁？
What bothers him is, in part, the problem of evil, which we've alluded to already.
困扰他的部分原因是我们已经提到过的邪恶问题。
Why does a good and omnipotent god allow evil to flourish?
为什么善良、全能的上帝会允许邪恶猖獗？
A related problem is that compared to the works of the Greek writers and philosophers, the Bible seems awfully crude to him, rhetorically, in terms of style, and conceptually, in terms of its ideas.
一个相关的问题是，与希腊作家和哲学家的作品相比，《圣经》对他来说无论是在修辞上、风格上，还是在概念上、思想上都显得非常粗糙。
The Old Testament god--and we're probably at various levels of familiarity with the Old Testament--but the Old Testament god is temperamental, I think it's fair to say.
旧约的神——我们对旧约的熟悉程度可能不同——但我认为可以公平地说，旧约的神是喜怒无常的。
Here's a guy who decides to destroy--a guy--a deity who decides to destroy the world by flood, destroys the cities of the plain, kills one of the people bearing the tabernacle back to Jerusalem because he stumbles.
这是一个人，他决定毁灭——一个人——一个神，他决定用洪水毁灭世界，摧毁平原上的城市，杀死一个把圣幕带回耶路撒冷的人，因为他绊倒了。
What kind of god is this?
这是一个什么样的神？
This bothers Augustine.
这让奥古斯丁很烦恼。
And his anthropomorphism bothers Augustine.
他的拟人化让奥古斯丁感到困扰。
In the Old Testament, in the Hebrew Bible, a god speaks with people.
在旧约《希伯来圣经》中，神与人交谈。
Adam hears him walking in the garden.
亚当听到他在花园里散步。
How can that be?
怎么可能呢？
How can this human-seeming god be the real God?
这个看似人的神怎么可能是真正的神呢？
So these two anxieties put Augustine in the camp of the Manicheans.
因此，这两种焦虑使奥古斯丁属于摩尼教阵营。
Remember, the Manicheans believe that the solution to the problem of evil is that God is not omnipotent.
请记住，摩尼教相信解决邪恶问题的方法是上帝不是万能的。
God is trying, but there's another evil god who is opposing Him.
神正在尝试，但还有另一个邪神在反对他。
And that evil god is the god of the flesh and the god of the Old Testament, Jehovah, the creator god, the god of matter and flesh.
而那个邪神就是肉身之神，旧约之神，耶和华，创造之神，物质与肉身之神。
We are souls imprisoned in flesh.
我们是被肉体囚禁的灵魂。
Our true home is the spiritual, and we have to renounce everything that has to do with the flesh in order to go there.
我们真正的家是精神的，我们必须放弃一切与肉体有关的东西才能到达那里。
So Manicheanism would seem to be extremely ascetic.
所以摩尼教看起来是极其苦行的。
You should have absolutely nothing to do with the world.
你不应该与这个世界有任何关系。
But as is always the case with the statement, "everything that's material is evil, but we are material," Manicheanism also offers or affords you an opportunity to be completely involved in the world, totally involved in the world, because there's nothing you can do about it.
但正如这句话所说的那样，“一切物质的东西都是邪恶的，但我们是物质的”，摩尼教也提供或给予你一个完全参与世界的机会，完全参与世界，因为你对此无能为力。
All you can do is say, the flesh is evil, I'm in the flesh, I'm just going to have to deal with it until I am liberated into the spirit.
你所能做的就是说，肉体是邪恶的，我在肉体中，我只能处理它，直到我被解放到精神中。
So Manicheanism is not necessarily world-renouncing, but they do identify the source of evil with the body.
所以摩尼教不一定是弃绝世界的，但他们确实把罪恶的根源与身体联系起来。
The body is wicked.
身体是邪恶的。
The immaterial soul is good.
非物质的灵魂是好的。
This is not Christianity, as Augustine discovers or elaborates.
正如奥古斯丁发现或阐述的那样，这不是基督教。
Even though we may think of Christianity as exalting the soul over the body, nevertheless, it also exalts the body.
尽管我们可能认为基督教高举灵魂高于身体，但它也高举身体。
Christian doctrine is that the bodies of human beings will be resurrected, not just the souls.
基督教教义是人类的身体将复活，而不仅仅是灵魂。
There will be bodies after the Last Judgment in heaven and in hell.
最后审判之后，天堂和地狱都会有尸体。
God created the world, and it was good.
上帝创造了世界，这世界是美好的。
What then explains the presence of evil?
那么如何解释邪恶的存在呢？
Augustine at this stage turns to Platonism for an understanding of the nature of evil.
奥古斯丁在这个阶段转向柏拉图主义来理解邪恶的本质。
Evil is not a thing in itself.
邪恶本身并不是一个东西。
It is rather the absence of good.
而是缺乏善。
Now, if anyone has ever said that to you, you will have found that unconvincing, at least in its first iteration.
现在，如果有人对你说过这样的话，你会发现这并不令人信服，至少在第一次迭代中是这样。
Because we're not just talking about the absence of good, as in, this bowl of chili is not very good.
因为我们不仅仅是在谈论没有好的，比如，这碗辣椒不太好。
It's not very flavorful.
味道不太好。
It's OK, but it's lacking in something.
还可以吧，不过还缺了点什么。
But that's not evil.
但这并不邪恶。
Evil is not like, not particularly good.
恶不喜欢，也不是特别善。
Evil is much more vivid, gratuitous, cruel, all-encompassing.
邪恶更加生动、无端、残酷、包罗万象。
The Platonists don't deny that.
柏拉图主义者并不否认这一点。
What they mean by saying it's the privation of good is that it is nothingness.
他们说这是善的匮乏，其意思是说它是虚无。
Evil is, in fact, the absence of being and meaning.
事实上，邪恶就是存在和意义的缺失。
The reason it produces such spectacular effects as war, oppression, crime, is that people turn away from the good, or they turn away from what is truly good to prefer lower goods.
它之所以产生战争、压迫、犯罪等惊人的影响，是因为人们远离善，或者他们远离真正的善而选择低等的善。
They turn away from the things of the spirit to the things of the flesh.
他们从属灵的事转向肉体的事。
They prefer their own lusts and desires, their own ambitions and greed, to the common good or to the immaterial and spiritual good.
他们更喜欢自己的情欲和欲望、自己的野心和贪婪，而不是公共利益或非物质和精神利益。
And it's this turning away from the Sun, this turning away from good, that seems to be a human problem.
正是这种背离太阳、背离善行，这似乎是人类的问题。
Human beings, generally speaking, don't understand what they're on Earth for, according to the Platonists.
根据柏拉图主义者的说法，一般来说，人类不明白他们在地球上的目的。
Many of you are familiar with the metaphor of the cave from The Republic .
你们中的许多人都熟悉《共和国》中洞穴的比喻。
This is the classic depiction of this wrong preference.
这是这种错误偏好的经典描述。
The people in the cave are chained facing the back wall of the cave, and they see images of what's passing in front of the cave reflected on the wall.
山洞里的人被铁链锁着，面朝山洞的后壁，他们看到洞前所经过的事物的影像倒映在洞壁上。
As time goes on, they come to believe that those images are reality.
随着时间的推移，他们开始相信这些图像是现实。
They forget that they're chained.
他们忘记了自己被锁链锁着。
They forget that they can't see the real things.
他们忘记了他们看不到真实的东西。
They forget the Sun.
他们忘记了太阳。
If you were to liberate them and turn them around and show them the light, first of all, they couldn't bear it, because they're used to the world of shadow.
如果你要解放他们，扭转他们，让他们看到光明，首先他们会受不了，因为他们已经习惯了阴影的世界。
Secondly, they'd kill you, because you are destroying their assumptions and their world.
其次，他们会杀了你，因为你正在摧毁他们的假设和他们的世界。
They would at least persecute you.
他们至少会迫害你。
They're not interested in the truth.
他们对真相不感兴趣。
They're interested in getting by.
他们有兴趣渡过难关。
So for the Platonists, evil is the result of this error in perception, assuming that it's a great thing to get rich.
因此，对于柏拉图主义者来说，邪恶是这种认知错误的结果，他们认为致富是一件好事。
Or assuming that it's a great thing to beat people up because you're stronger than they are.
或者假设殴打别人是一件很棒的事情，因为你比他们更强。
Or it's a great thing to conquer and subjugate.
或者说，征服和征服也是一件伟大的事情。
Or all of these things, some of which are evil but are really the preference of things that you should not be pursuing or that you should be pursuing for reasons inspired by spiritual truth.
或者所有这些事情，其中一些是邪恶的，但实际上是你不应该追求的事情的偏好，或者你应该出于精神真理的启发而追求的事情。
How do you get rid of this?
你如何摆脱这个？
In the Platonists' imagination, by education.
在柏拉图主义者的想象中，是通过教育。
That's the whole point of Plato's dialogues.
这就是柏拉图对话录的全部要点。
That's why they are dialogues, many of them, with a question and answer.
这就是为什么它们是对话，其中很多都是带有问题和答案的。
They're very didactic.
他们非常说教。
They're like being in a class.
他们就像在一个班级里。
Socrates quizzes people, and then he shows the solution.
苏格拉底询问人们，然后展示解决方案。
And they say, "Oh, wow, Socrates, now I understand.
他们说：“哦，哇，苏格拉底，现在我明白了。
Now I'm going to be a Platonist, and I'm going to build a perfect society." End of story.
现在我要成为一名柏拉图主义者，我要建立一个完美的社会。”故事结束。
The important thing to understand about Platonism is that it is not dualist in the way that Manicheanism is or the way that we instinctively think about evil.
关于柏拉图主义要理解的重要一点是，它不像摩尼教那样是二元论，也不是我们本能地思考邪恶的方式。
Evil is not opposed to good.
恶并不与善对立。
It's hierarchically inferior to good.
从等级上来说，它是劣等的。
The Platonists' universe is like a ladder with many rungs going up from mud, bugs, rocks to the immaterial One, and with many, many steps, as I said, many rungs or steps or levels in between.
柏拉图主义者的宇宙就像一把梯子，有许多梯级，从泥土、虫子、岩石到非物质的“一”，并且有很多很多的台阶，正如我所说的，中间有很多梯级或台阶或水平。
Human beings are in the middle.
人类处于中间。
And also, human beings--unlike animals, mud, slugs, but also unlike angels and demiurges and deities--human beings can move up and down the ladder.
而且，人类——与动物、泥土、蛞蝓不同，也与天使、造物主和神灵不同——人类可以在梯子上上下移动。
That's what free will is.
这就是自由意志。
That's what being human is.
这就是人类的本质。
You can read Hortensius , read the Confessions , fall in love with the liberal arts, and ascend to some very high realm of the spirit.
你可以读《霍滕修斯》，读《忏悔录》，爱上文科，提升到某种很高的精神境界。
Or you can choose the downward path to debauchery and mere pleasure.
或者你也可以选择堕落的道路，走向放荡和纯粹的享乐。
It's a question of how free you are, but we do have the opportunity to move up and down this ladder, unlike the animals and all other created forces that are fixed.
这是一个你有多自由的问题，但我们确实有机会在这个梯子上上下移动，不像动物和所有其他固定的创造力量。
Now, the question is what makes us move up and down this?
现在的问题是，是什么让我们上下移动？
Or what'll motivate us to move up?
或者说什么会激励我们向上移动？
And here we come to some key differences between Platonism and Christianity with regard to evil.
在这里，我们看到了柏拉图主义和基督教在邪恶方面的一些关键区别。
Platonism tends to ascribe evil to ignorance.
柏拉图主义倾向于将邪恶归因于无知。
Christianity tends to ascribe evil to sin.
基督教倾向于将邪恶归因于罪。
The difference between sin and ignorance is that sin is deliberate.
罪与无知的区别在于罪是故意的。
You know you shouldn't do this, and you do it anyway.
你知道你不应该这样做，但你还是这么做了。
You're not overcome by desire.
你没有被欲望所征服。
Chapter 4: Pears and Augustine’s Conception of Sin [00:25:00]
第四章：皮尔斯和奥古斯丁的罪孽观念[00:25:00]
So to anticipate one of the paper topics--but I don't think I'm going to be giving away the answer--what is it about the pear-stealing incident that makes it so important?
因此，预测论文主题之一——但我不认为我会泄露答案——偷梨事件为何如此重要？
Anybody want to venture a preliminary response to this?
有人想对此做出初步回应吗？
Student: Well, it's the fact that he doesn't need the pears.
学生：嗯，事实上他不需要梨。
He just does it because he feels like sinning.
他这样做只是因为他觉得自己想犯罪。
Professor Paul Freedman: So the pears--he doesn't need the pears.
保罗·弗里德曼教授：所以梨——他不需要梨。
It is just a desire.
这只是一个愿望。
I mean, he doesn't say to himself, I want to sin.
我的意思是，他没有对自己说，我想犯罪。
I haven't sinned in two days.
我已经两天没有犯错了。
He doesn't need the pears.
他不需要梨。
What do they do with the pears when they get them?
他们拿到梨后会做什么？
Professor Paul Freedman: Yeah, they throw them out.
保罗·弗里德曼教授：是的，他们把它们扔掉了。
They throw them to the pigs.
他们把它们扔给猪。
So they're not hungry.
所以他们不饿。
It's not like, I was overcome by desire, and that led me into some sinful behavior.
这并不是说，我被欲望所征服，导致我做出一些有罪的行为。
They weren't overcome by desire at all.
他们根本没有被欲望所征服。
How would you describe their pre-pear-stealing state?
你会如何形容他们偷梨前的状态？
At least, what would you guess was their pre-pear-stealing frame of mind?
至少，你猜他们在偷梨之前的心态是什么？
There's one word that'll describe it, but if you want to, use a few more.
有一个词可以描述它，但如果你愿意，可以多用几个词。
Some guys go and they steal some pears from an orchard.
有些人去果园偷了一些梨。
They fool around with them.
他们和他们一起鬼混。
They throw them to the pigs.
他们把它们扔给猪。
Professor Paul Freedman: Bored.
保罗·弗里德曼教授：无聊。
Bored.
无聊的。
Now, here's something we can identify with.
现在，这是我们可以认同的东西。
They're bored.
他们很无聊。
They need to amuse themselves.
他们需要自娱自乐。
They cannot amuse themselves by saying, "I'm a good person," or, "I'm going to contemplate the One," or, "I'm going to do some homework." It doesn't end.
他们不能自娱自乐地说：“我是一个好人”，或者“我要思惟一”，或者“我要做一些家庭作业”。它没有结束。
Young people are thought to be easily bored, but the boredom of old people, it's a different kind of bored.
人们认为年轻人很容易感到无聊，但老年人的无聊，是另一种无聊。
But there it is.
但它就在那里。
It's persistent.
它是执着的。
That's not the only reason people sin, but it is a gratuitous reason.
这不是人们犯罪的唯一原因，但却是一个无缘无故的原因。
And that's what's interesting about the pears.
这就是梨的有趣之处。
It's gratuitous.
这是免费的。
It's not from need.
这不是出于需要。
The Platonists don't have a good response to why this happens, because it's not a question of education.
柏拉图主义者对于为什么会发生这种情况没有一个很好的答案，因为这不是教育问题。
Now, Augustine does not invent Christian ideas of sin.
现在，奥古斯丁并没有发明基督教的罪恶观念。
If you said to Augustine, "Come on, why are you so worried about the pears?" He's not worried about the pears as such.
如果你对奥古斯丁说：“得了吧，你为什么这么担心梨呢？”他并不担心梨子本身。
It's just a little emblem or a little example of a different kind of problem--that is to say, knowing how to behave doesn't change us.
这只是不同类型问题的一个小象征或一个小例子——也就是说，知道如何行事并不能改变我们。
Feeling how to behave--to put it in Freudian terms, it's not the ego that decides.
感受如何行为——用弗洛伊德的话来说，决定的不是自我。
It's the id.
这是身份证号
It's the instinct, not the intellect.
这是本能，不是理智。
And that's what his conversion means.
这就是他转变的意义。
His conversion is not: "Suddenly, I was convinced that Christianity was true." He already knows that Christianity is true, but he knows it intellectually.
他的转变并不是：“突然间，我确信基督教是真实的。”他已经知道基督教是真实的，但他在理智上知道这一点。
The conversion is a conversion to an emotional apprehension of it.
这种转变是一种对它的情感理解的转变。
So however intellectual he may seem to you, however formed in the tradition of Greco-Roman classicism he was, however much the Hortensius awakened him to the life of the mind, he is ultimately a theologian and philosopher of the irrational, of the supra-rational.
因此，无论他在你看来多么知识分子，无论他是在希腊罗马古典主义传统中形成的，无论霍滕修斯如何唤醒他对心灵生活的认识，他最终都是一位非理性、超理性的神学家和哲学家。
And indeed, Christianity in its history has an oscillation between intellectualization and the rediscovery of sin and God's grace.
事实上，基督教在其历史上一直在理智化与重新发现罪恶和上帝的恩典之间摇摆。
If you think of movements like the Reformation of Martin Luther, John Calvin, et cetera, in the sixteenth century, it takes issue with the notion that we can do works that give us merit in the sight of God, and that the Church tells us we have accumulated merits, and therefore we'll go to heaven.
如果你想到十六世纪马丁·路德、约翰·加尔文等人的宗教改革运动，就会对这样的观念产生争议：我们可以做一些在上帝眼中给我们带来功德的工作，而教会告诉我们，我们已经积累了功德，因此我们会去天堂。
The Reformation teaches that we are face to face with God and that our so-called good deeds don't amount to anything.
宗教改革教导我们面对上帝，我们所谓的善行毫无意义。
We are all sinful.
我们都是有罪的。
If God operated according to justice, we would all go to hell.
如果上帝按照正义行事，我们都会下地狱。
It's faith and grace that save people, hence the Reformation.
是信仰和恩典拯救了人们，因此有了宗教改革。
But it's also the Great Awakening of Britain and America in the eighteenth century, the development of Methodism, the Fundamentalist movement, all of these tend to reject attempts to approach God contractually, attempts to approach God in terms of a deal.
但也是十八世纪英美的大觉醒，卫理公会的发展，原教旨主义运动，所有这些都倾向于拒绝以契约的方式接近上帝的尝试，以交易的方式接近上帝的尝试。
So if human beings are sinful and if education is not going to get them out of sin, what will?
那么，如果人类是有罪的，如果教育不能让他们摆脱罪恶，那什么可以呢？
Now, the Augustine of the Confessions is different than the Augustine of 20 years later when he wrote The City of God .
现在，《忏悔录》中的奥古斯丁与20年后写《上帝之城》时的奥古斯丁不同了。
And we're not studying The City of God , but this book, written in response to the sack of Rome in 410, develops some ideas that are found in the Confessions about the nature of sin and how we get out of it.
我们不是在研究《上帝之城》，但这本书是为了回应 410 年罗马被洗劫而写的，它发展了《忏悔录》中关于罪的本质以及我们如何摆脱罪的一些想法。
The nature of sin is the pears.
罪的本质就是梨。
How we get out of it is at least in part the conversion.
我们如何摆脱它至少部分是转变。
We got the pears sufficiently for the time being?
我们暂时得到的梨够了吗？
The conversion is started--well, it started long before the event.
转变已经开始——嗯，早在事件发生之前就开始了。
But what precipitates it as a drama is this conversation with Ponticianus in Book VIII, Part VIII, who has traveled and describes the monks of Egypt.
但使它成为一部戏剧的是第八卷第八部分中与庞蒂西安努斯的对话，庞蒂西安努斯曾旅行并描述过埃及的僧侣。
Now, we'll be talking lots and lots about monks, but the monks of Egypt are the first example of Christian monks, men who flee the world into the desert and there live on weeds, saline water, locusts, other insects, basically nothing.
现在，我们将谈论很多关于僧侣的事情，但埃及的僧侣是基督教僧侣的第一个例子，他们逃离世界进入沙漠，在那里以杂草、盐水、蝗虫和其他昆虫为生，基本上什么都没有。
And they have visions, and they are sought out by ordinary people.
他们有远见，受到普通人的追捧。
It's key to understand that to be a hermit in this society does not necessarily mean that you have nothing to do with people.
关键是要明白，在这个社会做隐士并不一定意味着你与人无关。
People start to want to find you, because you must have special power.
人们开始想找到你，因为你一定有特殊的力量。
Back in Alexandria, their baby is sick.
回到亚历山大，他们的孩子病了。
"Maybe you, oh hermit, living on locusts and out in the desert, have some spiritual power to help my baby."
“也许你，隐士啊，靠着沙漠里的蝗虫为生，有某种灵力来帮助我的孩子。”
This is shamanism.
这就是萨满教。
It happens in all sorts of religions.
它发生在各种宗教中。
You can't just be a shaman, a medicine man, a wise man, and hold down a regular old job.
你不能只是当一个萨满、一个巫师、一个智者，然后继续做一份普通的旧工作。
Or you can, but it helps.
或者你可以，但它有帮助。
And that's the conceit of a lot of TV ideas, secret heroes.
这就是很多电视创意、秘密英雄的自负。
They're the real estate agents, but they're battling the forces of darkness.
他们是房地产经纪人，但他们正在与黑暗势力作斗争。
But generally, most of the time, you've got to be special, and you've got to look special.
但一般来说，大多数时候，你必须很特别，而且你必须看起来很特别。
And you've got to be a reject.
而你必须是一个拒绝者。
You can't have a spouse, kids, a mortgage, a garden, a swing set.
你不能有配偶、孩子、抵押贷款、花园、秋千。
You've got to be a seer.
你必须是一个预言家。
You've got to have your vision focused on the other world.
你必须把你的视野集中在另一个世界。
Ponticianus tells Augustine about these men, and his response is not only to be impressed by them, but to be humiliated by them.
庞蒂西安努斯向奥古斯丁讲述了这些人，他的反应不仅是对他们印象深刻，而且是对他们感到羞辱。
First of all, here are these guys who are intoxicated with God, while I'm still thinking about my career.
首先，这些人沉醉于上帝，而我却还在思考我的职业生涯。
But--and this is the ancient world speaking--they are uneducated, these monks of Egypt.
但是——这是古代世界的说法——这些埃及僧侣没有受过教育。
They didn't study The Republic , the Hortensius, the Timaeus , the rhetoric of Quintilian, the Satires of Juvenal.
他们没有研究《理想国》、《霍滕修斯》、《蒂迈欧篇》、昆体良的修辞学、尤维纳尔的《讽刺诗》。
They don't know anything about this.
他们对此一无所知。
They're uneducated people.
他们是没有受过教育的人。
Many of them are illiterate.
他们中的许多人是文盲。
And yet they are closer to God.
然而他们更接近上帝。
They have an apprehension of the divine that causes them to renounce the world, whereas we--Augustine says of him and his circle--we "lie here groveling in this world of flesh and blood, while they storm the gates of heaven." And this is the moment of his conversion.
他们对神圣的理解使他们放弃了世界，而我们——奥古斯丁谈到他和他的圈子——“我们躺在这里，卑躬屈膝地躺在这个血肉的世界里，而他们却冲进了天堂的大门”。这就是他转变的时刻。
Now, after his conversion, Augustine's plan was to lead a life of contemplation with his friends.
现在，在他皈依之后，奥古斯丁的计划是与他的朋友们一起过沉思的生活。
They would retreat from the world, meaning they would give up their careers, but it would be a little bit like one of your friend's parents have a lot of money and have this wonderful cabin somewhere in the Rockies or the Sawtooth Mountains.
他们会从这个世界隐退，这意味着他们会放弃自己的事业，但这有点像你朋友的父母有很多钱，在落基山脉或锯齿山脉的某个地方拥有这间美妙的小屋。
And you're going to figure out some kind of way of--you'll be on the Internet and everything, but you're going to have this kind of beautiful, contemplative life.
你会想出某种方式——你会上网等等，但你会拥有这种美丽的、沉思的生活。
But the beautiful part is that it's not going to be uncomfortable.
但最美妙的部分是它不会感到不舒服。
It's not the desert of Egypt.
这不是埃及的沙漠。
It's remote--you're not going to be bothered--but there are beautiful mountains, trouts in the stream.
这里地处偏远——你不会被打扰——但那里有美丽的山脉，溪里有鳟鱼。
It's idyllic.
这是田园诗般的。
And you and your friends are going to talk about reality and the spirit and philosophy and--I don't know how idyllic this sounds to you, but it's certainly an understandable idea of a way of life.
你和你的朋友将谈论现实、精神和哲学——我不知道这对你来说听起来有多美妙，但这肯定是一种可以理解的生活方式。
It is the ancient idea of what's called “leisure with dignity”.
这就是所谓的“有尊严的休闲”的古老观念。
And indeed, that's what being a professor was supposed to be when I signed up for it.
事实上，这就是我报名时作为一名教授应该做的事情。
Otium cum dignitate , leisure with dignity.
Otium cum denignate，闲暇有尊严。
"Leisure" meaning not wasting time leisure, but not responding to clients, or not responding to urgent scheduling phone calls, deals.
“闲”的意思是不浪费时间休闲，但不回应客户，或不回应紧急安排的电话、交易。
You've got to show up to your classes, but that's not really onerous.
你必须去上课，但这并不是很繁重。
At least, that was the idea.
至少，这是我们的想法。
And I won't go into the frustrations of being a professor or the dissatisfactions.
我不会谈论作为一名教授的挫折或不满。
But the classical idea is otium cum dignitate , "dignity" meaning not being naked in the desert, not having to eat locusts and figure out how to-- "OK, I had curried locusts last night.
但经典的想法是 otium cum dignitate ，“尊严”意味着不在沙漠中赤身裸体，不必吃蝗虫并弄清楚如何——“好吧，我昨晚吃了咖喱蝗虫。
Tonight, I think I'll have locust casserole." No, no, no. Something nicer than that.
今晚，我想我会吃蝗虫砂锅。”不，不，不。比那更好的东西。
But in fact, he did not follow through on this.
但事实上，他并没有遵循这一点。
He did not lead a life of cultivated classical dignity with his friends.
他并没有和朋友们一起过着古典尊严的生活。
He went back to North Africa.
他回到了北非。
He became a bishop.
他成为一名主教。
His years were consumed by disputes over doctrine or with heretical--as he deemed them--tendencies, like Donatism, most notably.
他的岁月都被关于教义的争论或他所认为的异端倾向所消耗，尤其是多纳图主义。
And he died defending his city of Hippo, Hippo Regius, in modern Tunisia, from the Vandals, one of those barbarian invaders who will occupy us next week.
他为保卫位于现代突尼斯的河马城（Hippo Regius）免遭汪达尔人的袭击而牺牲，汪达尔人是下周将占领我们的野蛮入侵者之一。
He then was very much involved in the world.
然后他就非常融入这个世界。
To be a bishop in the Roman Empire was by no means an office of dignified leisure.
在罗马帝国担任主教绝不是一个有尊严的闲暇之职。
It was right in there in the political trenches.
它就在政治战壕里。
It's a position of honor, to be sure, but his understanding of the Christian's duty in the world was that you cannot lead a life of perfection.
诚然，这是一个荣誉的职位，但他对基督徒在世上的责任的理解是，你不可能过完美的生活。
You cannot lead a life of sin-free contemplation.
你无法过一种无罪沉思的生活。
We all are sinners.
我们都是罪人。
He becomes more and more the theologian, philosopher who combats perfectionism.
他越来越成为一个反对完美主义的神学家、哲学家。
Perfectionism is a doctrine that human beings can be made radically better--perfect, even.
完美主义是一种认为人类可以从根本上变得更好——甚至是完美的学说。
There are debates throughout societies about the degree of human perfectibility.
整个社会都在争论人类的完美程度。
This is indeed supposedly and to some extent I think really at the heart of debates between what is called liberalism in the United States and conservatism.
这确实是美国所谓的自由主义和保守主义之间争论的核心，而且在某种程度上我认为确实如此。
Liberals believe in human perfectibility.
自由主义者相信人类是完美的。
If you educate people, if you help them, if you encourage them, if you provide government subsidies, you will build a better society.
如果你教育人们，如果你帮助他们，如果你鼓励他们，如果你提供政府补贴，你就会建设一个更美好的社会。
The response upon the part of conservatives to that is, people are the way they are because that's the way they want to be, or they made wrong choices.
保守派对此的回应是，人们之所以成为他们现在的样子，是因为那是他们想要的方式，或者他们做出了错误的选择。
But all the help from some public authority isn't going to help, isn't going to really make a difference.
但某些公共机构的所有帮助都不会有所帮助，不会真正产生影响。
Are people perfectible?
人是完美的吗？
People who believe in education tend to believe that they are.
相信教育的人往往相信自己是这样的。
On the other hand, very well-educated people have been bad.
另一方面，受过良好教育的人却很糟糕。
Hitler loved classical music.
希特勒热爱古典音乐。
So did Stalin.
斯大林也是如此。
Just because you are a connoisseur of art doesn't make you a good person.
仅仅因为你是艺术鉴赏家并不意味着你就是一个好人。
Augustine is a radical imperfectionist, more so in The City of God than in the Confessions , which is teetering on the brink.
奥古斯丁是一个激进的不完美主义者，在《上帝之城》中比在《忏悔录》中更是如此，而《忏悔录》则在边缘摇摇欲坠。
The pears is a kind of imperfectionist moment.
梨子是一种不完美的时刻。
He glimpses the power of sin.
他瞥见了罪的力量。
By the time of The City of God, by the time that the end of the Roman Empire is at least glimpsed as a possibility and the rise of the barbarians, Augustine has become someone who does not believe that human beings can, in any way, earn salvation.
到了《上帝之城》的时代，到罗马帝国的终结至少被瞥见的可能性和野蛮人的崛起的时候，奥古斯丁已经成为一个不相信人类能够以任何方式获得救赎的人。
Human beings are irrevocably sinful.
人类是无可挽回的罪孽。
Once again, if God judged people according to their merits, they would all be damned.
再说一次，如果上帝根据人的功绩来审判人，那么他们都会受到诅咒。
Since the Christian belief is that some people are saved, they are saved by a mysterious process called "grace." Grace, by its very meaning, is undeserved.
由于基督教信仰认为有些人得救，因此他们是通过一种称为“恩典”的神秘过程而得救的。恩典，就其本身的意义而言，是不配得的。
You don't show up at the door of Heaven with a ticket of admission earned by your deeds on Earth.
你不会带着你在地球上的行为所获得的入场券出现在天堂的门口。
What opens the doors to you is a generous, arbitrary decision.
为你打开大门的是一个慷慨而武断的决定。
Well, "generous" may mean, I had good intentions.
嗯，“慷慨”可能意味着，我有良好的意图。
I didn't kill anybody.
我没有杀任何人。
But "arbitrary" may mean that we can't figure out who's going to Heaven and who's going to Hell.
但“任意”可能意味着我们无法弄清楚谁会去天堂，谁会去地狱。
It may even mean that since God knew before we were born, God predestined us for Heaven or Hell.
这甚至可能意味着，既然上帝在我们出生之前就知道，他就预定了我们去天堂或地狱。
This is a harsh doctrine.
这是一个严厉的教义。
It gets periodically rediscovered and then dropped.
它会定期被重新发现，然后被丢弃。
It's at the heart of the belief of the people who settled Massachusetts and Connecticut.
这是定居马萨诸塞州和康涅狄格州的人们信仰的核心。
It is the heart of Calvinism and of Puritanism, the belief in the elect.
它是加尔文主义和清教主义的核心，即对选民的信仰。
The question is, are these elect visible or invisible?
问题是，这些选民是可见的还是不可见的？
The elect are people who are going to go to heaven.
选民是要去天堂的人。
Are they visible?
它们可见吗？
Can we say, this guy is so good, he's going to heaven?
难道我们可以说，这家伙这么优秀，他一定会上天堂吗？
This woman is so loving, nurturing, self-effacing, whatever, she's going to go to heaven?
这个女人是如此有爱心、有教养、谦虚，无论如何，她会去天堂吗？
That's the notion of a visible elect.
这就是可见选民的概念。
An invisible elect is, "We don't know, we have no idea."
一个看不见的选民会说：“我们不知道，我们不知道。”
And this is a crucial difference.
这是一个至关重要的区别。
Because if you believe in the visible elect, even if you say they're not guaranteed, but anybody outside of this circle is for sure going to hell, then you have Puritan New England.
因为如果你相信可见的选民，即使你说他们没有得到保证，但这个圈子之外的任何人肯定会下地狱，那么你就有了清教徒新英格兰。
You have a small community of people pursuing perfection.
你有一个追求完美的小社区。
Or you have the Amish.
或者你有阿米什人。
Or you have any small pious community that believes that outside of it is more or less given over to sin and more or less doomed.
或者你有任何一个虔诚的小团体，他们相信在它之外或多或少都会陷入罪恶，或多或少注定会失败。
Inside of it, maybe it's not guaranteed, but your chances are much, much better.
在里面，也许不能保证，但你的机会要好得多。
But if you believe that we don't have a visible elect, that we have no idea, then everybody ought to be in the Church.
但如果你相信我们没有可见的选民，我们不知道，那么每个人都应该加入教会。
Everybody ought to have access to the sacraments that provide initiation into the Church.
每个人都应该有机会获得进入教会的圣礼。
You ought to start converting pagans, even savage pagans.
你应该开始改变异教徒的信仰，甚至是野蛮的异教徒。
You ought to be out there roping in as many people into the church, including people who don't want to be.
你应该把尽可能多的人拉进教会，包括那些不想加入的人。
Because you just never know.
因为你永远不知道。
Maybe their kids will be.
也许他们的孩子会是。
Augustine is behind ideas of things like forced conversion.
奥古斯丁是强制皈依等想法的幕后推手。
As long as they're baptized, there's a chance of them being saved.
只要受了洗，就有得救的机会。
And baptized as infants, preferably, because baptism does not any longer mean, in Augustine's world, perfection.
最好是在婴儿时期接受洗礼，因为在奥古斯丁的世界里，洗礼不再意味着完美。
It means the beginning.
这意味着开始。
It means entering the process.
这意味着进入流程。
So the three things that he is teaching that are implicit in the Confessions and that he is important for in terms of his intellectual impact are his opposition to perfectionism, his exaltation of grace, and the notion of sin as indelible, not solvable.
因此，他在《忏悔录》中所教导的三件事是他对完美主义的反对，他对恩典的推崇，以及罪是不可磨灭的、不可解决的概念，这三件事对他的智力影响很重要。
Where this becomes of key historical importance is in the Church.
这在教会中变得具有关键的历史重要性。
The Church is a body that can either be sectarian and small, as with the Amish or Puritan New England, or it can be huge and universal, as with the medieval Catholic Church.
教会是一个可以是小宗派的团体，如阿米什人或新英格兰清教徒，也可以是庞大的、普世性的团体，如中世纪的天主教会。
Augustine stands behind the medieval Catholic Church, which is a political body, a body of doctrine, a structure ruled by princes, and a structure that has a missionary impact on the rest of the world.
奥古斯丁支持中世纪的天主教会，它是一个政治机构，一个教义体系，一个由王子统治的结构，一个对世界其他地方有传教影响的结构。
Now, the papers.
现在，报纸。
You have the paper topics.
你有论文主题。
If you didn't get them, come up and see me after.
如果你没有收到，请稍后再来见我。
You can choose any one of them, or you can choose something else.
您可以选择其中任何一项，也可以选择其他内容。
But if you choose something else, please talk to your teaching fellow or to me.
但如果你选择其他的，请告诉你的导师或我。
And talk to us anyway about these papers.
无论如何，请与我们讨论这些论文。
We'll give you plenty of opportunity to bounce ideas off us.
我们将为您提供充足的机会向我们反馈想法。
Now, next week, we talk about the fall of the Roman Empire.
现在，下周，我们谈论罗马帝国的衰落。
But this is implicit in what we've talked about today, because the bottom line is the Roman Empire is going to fall in the West, and the Church is not going to.
但这在我们今天讨论的内容中是隐含的，因为底线是罗马帝国将在西方崩溃，而教会不会。
And so we'll look at how that works next week.
因此，我们将在下周看看它是如何运作的。
Thanks.
谢谢。