97: Death to Wacky - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #97 | March 20, 1998 97: Death to Wacky Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 97 集 | 1998 年 3 月 20 日 97：古怪之死 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Not long ago I went to see this movie called Fast, Cheap & Out of Control .
序言 Ira Glass 不久前我去看了一部叫《快速、廉价和失控》的电影。
Hadn't read any reviews, hadn't seen any ads for it.
没有读过任何评论，也没有看到任何广告。
Didn't know anything about it, really.
真的，对此一无所知。
Except that it was by Errol Morris, a documentary filmmaker whose work I like.
只是它的作者是埃罗尔·莫里斯（Errol Morris），一位我喜欢他作品的纪录片制片人。
And that friends of mine enjoyed it.
我的朋友们很喜欢它。
And it was great.
这太棒了。
It had funny moments and reflective moments and interesting characters.
它有有趣的时刻、反思的时刻和有趣的人物。
Totally satisfying, soulful film.
完全令人满意、深情的电影。
And after the movie I'm walking through the theater lobby and I see the poster for the movie, which I somehow missed on my way in.
电影结束后，我走过剧院大厅，看到了电影的海报，但不知何故我在进去的路上错过了它。
It was a bright, unnatural yellow.
那是一种明亮的、不自然的黄色。
The main characters from the film are photographed with this fish eye lens so their heads are huge and their bodies are tiny.
影片中的主要人物都是用鱼眼镜头拍摄的，所以他们的头很大，身体很小。
And there, in big print, the poster says these words, "The bizarre at its best." And I realized what was going on.
海报上用大字体写着这样的话：“最奇异的东西。”我意识到发生了什么事。
Someone, somewhere thought that this film was wacky.
有人、某个地方认为这部电影很古怪。
Or they thought they could sell it as wacky.
或者他们认为可以把它当作古怪的东西来卖。
Which, if you see the film, is astounding.
如果你看过这部电影，你会感到震惊。
It's a great film but it's not wacky.
这是一部很棒的电影，但并不古怪。
There's a whole section of the film about death, a meditation on death.
电影中有整整一个部分是关于死亡的，是对死亡的沉思。
It's not wacky.
这并不古怪。
Tom Bernard is one of the co-presidents of Sony Picture Classics.
汤姆·伯纳德是索尼经典电影公司的联合总裁之一。
He saw what a great film Fast, Cheap & Out of Control was and bought the distribution rights from Errol Morris in a bathroom, at the Sundance film festival.
他看到了一部多么伟大的电影《速度、廉价和失控》，并在圣丹斯电影节的浴室里从埃罗尔·莫里斯那里买了发行权。
It was, he says, the only quiet place to get anything done without competitors overhearing.
他说，这是唯一一个安静的地方，可以在不被竞争对手偷听的情况下完成任何事情。
And he says they market the film as wacky for a simple reason.
他说他们将这部电影宣传为古怪的原因很简单。
Wacky sells.
古怪的卖。
Market a film as wacky and people come to see it.
将一部电影推销为古怪，人们就会来看它。
Well, I mean, to me one of the ultimate wacky sells on a movie was Brazil .
嗯，我的意思是，对我来说，电影中最古怪的卖点之一是巴西。
And what was the sell?
卖的是什么？
I don't even remember that.
我什至不记得了。
What was the ad campaign?
广告活动是什么？
It was just a bizarre campaign with sort of South American lettering style, you know?
这只是一场带有南美字体风格的奇怪活动，你知道吗？
Right.
正确的。
Tom Bernard It had Brazil and a lot of wacky lines and colors.
汤姆·伯纳德（Tom Bernard） 它有巴西和许多古怪的线条和颜色。
We had a movie, Crumb , which was a very, very moving film but to talk about R.
我们有一部电影《Crumb》，这是一部非常非常感人的电影，但要谈谈 R。
Crumb, the guy's a wacky guy.
克拉姆，这家伙是个古怪的家伙。
Even In the Company of Men was a very dark comedy and wacky to some extent.
即使是在男人的公司也是一部非常黑暗的喜剧，并且在某种程度上很古怪。
That's a movie we released and I think the campaign is a bit strange, a bit wacky.
这是我们发行的一部电影，我认为这个活动有点奇怪，有点古怪。
I don't know if you've seen any of these films, but they are-- every single one of them-- they are very dark films.
我不知道你是否看过这些电影，但它们——每一部——都是非常黑暗的电影。
These are bleak films, really.
这些确实是惨淡的电影。
I suggested to Mr. Bernard that wacky seems to miss a lot of what these films are about.
我向伯纳德先生建议，古怪的人似乎错过了这些电影的很多内容。
He said, no no no no. Look at the four characters in Fast, Cheap & Out of Control .
他说，不不不不。看看《快、便宜、失控》中的四个角色。
Two of them are scientists.
其中两人是科学家。
One's an expert on robots.
一个是机器人专家。
One, the world's leading authority on naked mole rats.
一、世界领先的裸鼹鼠权威。
There's a lion tamer.
有一个驯狮师。
There's a guy who carves trees and bushes into the shapes of animals.
有一个人把树木和灌木雕刻成动物的形状。
And, said Mr. Bernard, that is, by most people's objective standards, actually kind of wacky.
而且，伯纳德先生说，按照大多数人的客观标准，这实际上有点古怪。
The film is a very strange film.
这部电影是一部非常奇怪的电影。
The people are very strange.
人们很奇怪。
I think, in word of mouth, people would talk about it and they'd say, look at these crazy guys, let's go see what they're up to.
我想，通过口耳相传，人们会谈论这件事，他们会说，看看这些疯狂的家伙，让我们去看看他们在做什么。
You know what I realized, as we talk, is that I guess I just don't think of people as wacky.
你知道，当我们谈话时，我意识到我想我只是不认为人们是古怪的。
I guess some people just think of people as wacky and some don't.
我想有些人只是认为人们很古怪，有些人则不然。
I mean, when I think of all the people in this Errol Morris film, or I think of R.
我的意思是，当我想到埃罗尔·莫里斯这部影片中的所有人，或者我想到 R.
Crumb, I think of them as being people who are fundamentally very, very serious.
Crumb，我认为他们本质上是非常非常严肃的人。
Do you see them as crazy guys?
你认为他们是疯子吗？
Or eccentric guys?
还是性格古怪的人？
Or wacky guys?
还是古怪的家伙？
I think they're very eccentric and very wacky.
我认为他们非常古怪、非常古怪。
And I think that if you know people in your world that you consider genius, and I think these guys are all geniuses at what they do, they sort of have a view that is so focused and so-- would people call Albert Einstein eccentric?
我认为，如果你认识世界上那些你认为是天才的人，而且我认为这些人在他们所做的事情上都是天才，他们的观点是如此专注，所以——人们会说阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦古怪吗？
With all respect to Mr. Bernard, who, as far as I'm concerned is doing God's work, distributing these unusual, interesting, amazing films, with all respect I have a different point of view about this.
谨向伯纳德先生表示敬意，就我而言，他正在做上帝的工作，发行这些不寻常的、有趣的、令人惊叹的电影，诚然我对此有不同的观点。
Wacky to me seems to miss the point of everything interesting.
对我来说，古怪似乎错过了所有有趣的事情的重点。
Wacky eradicates empathy and thoughtfulness and feeling.
古怪消除了同理心、体贴和感觉。
Wacky is what people say when they're too polite to say freak.
Wacky 是指当人们出于礼貌而不敢说“freak”时，就会说“Wacky”。
Wacky is what people say when they don't want to feel anything or think anything.
古怪是人们不想感受任何事情或思考任何事情时所说的话。
Wacky is what people say when they don't know what else to say.
古怪是人们不知道还能说什么时所说的话。
When you call somebody wacky you're ignoring who they are and painting a big smiley face on top of their real face.
当你称某人古怪时，你就忽略了他们是谁，并在他们真实的脸上画了一个大大的笑脸。
I didn't used to have an opinion about wackiness, one way or another.
我过去对古怪行为没有任何看法，不管怎样。
But after I saw Fast, Cheap & Out of Control I did.
但当我看到《快速、廉价和失控》后，我就这么做了。
And that opinion is death to wacky.
这种观点太古怪了。
Death to wacky.
古怪至死。
And then we started putting this week's program together, this week's radio program.
然后我们开始整理本周的节目，本周的广播节目。
And everything I thought about wacky got thrown up in the air again.
我认为古怪的一切又被抛到了空中。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International it's This American Life , I'm Ira Glass.
嗯，来自芝加哥 WBEZ 和国际公共广播电台的《美国生活》，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, 13 ways of looking at wacky.
今天在我们的节目中，有 13 种看待古怪的方式。
Act One, Negative.
第一幕，消极。
Writer David Sedaris faces a sheet of glass, a glass of milk, a floor of carpet tacks, and a photographer with big, big ideas.
作家大卫·塞达里斯面对着一块玻璃、一杯牛奶、地板上的地毯钉，以及一位有着伟大想法的摄影师。
Act Two, The Good, the Bad, and the Wacky.
第二幕，好的、坏的和古怪的。
We squint our eyes and try to distinguish good kitsch from bad kitsch, good wacky from bad wacky.
我们眯起眼睛，试图区分好的媚俗和坏的庸俗，好的古怪和坏的古怪。
Act Three, The Politics of Wacky.
第三幕，古怪的政治。
A conversation with Michael Lewis about republicans, the press, and, of course, wackiness.
与迈克尔·刘易斯谈论共和党、媒体，当然还有古怪。
Acts Four through Ten, well, you'll see about those.
第四幕到第十幕，好吧，你会看到这些。
Act Eleven, Self-Proclaimed Wacky.
第十一幕，自称古怪。
We find someone who is not called wacky by marketers or promoters, she calls herself wacky.
我们找到了一个不被营销人员或促销员称为古怪的人，她称自己古怪。
Act Twelve, Sidestepping Wackiness and Seriousness and Embracing Both.
第十二幕，避开古怪和严肃，拥抱两者。
Act Thirteen, Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Wacky.
第十三幕，杰基博士和古怪先生。
That story from our own Sarah Vowel.
这个故事来自我们自己的莎拉元音。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act one, "Negative." David Sedaris is a regular contributor here on This American Life .
第一幕，“否定”。大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 是《美国生活》的定期撰稿人。
A Morning Edition commentator.
早间版评论员。
Author of the books Naked and Barrel Fever .
《裸体》和《桶热》一书的作者。
His stories are the sort of complicated mix of seriousness and funny that is easy to love but comes nowhere near, I have to say, nowhere near to wacky.
他的故事是严肃和有趣的复杂结合，很容易让人喜欢，但我不得不说，一点也不古怪。
What follows is a set of true stories plus a fictional story inspired by the true ones.
以下是一组真实故事以及受真实故事启发的虚构故事。
I wore my new tie to this afternoon's photo shoot.
我戴着新领带去参加今天下午的照片拍摄。
It was an extravagant purchase but I justified it thinking of all the money I would have spent on ties if I'd had a real job.
这是一笔奢侈的购买，但考虑到如果我有一份真正的工作，我会花在领带上的所有钱，我证明它是合理的。
I thought the magazine would want a picture of me standing with my book, so I packed a copy along with an extra shirt in case they had something against white.
我以为杂志会想要一张我和书站在一起的照片，所以我打包了一份副本和一件额外的衬衫，以防他们有白色的东西。
I arrived in the studio where the photographer said, "I'm not loving that tie much at all." He didn't care for the shirt, either and called out to his assistant, "Brian, hey Brian, do we still have that t-shirt from last week?"
我到达摄影棚时，摄影师说：“我一点也不喜欢那条领带。”他也不喜欢这件衬衫，并对他的助手喊道：“布莱恩，嘿布莱恩，我们还有上周的那件 T 恤吗？”
The t-shirt was produced and I explained that I'm incapable of wearing anything with words on it, especially the words "Deliveries in Rear." "You are gay, aren't you?" the photographer asked.
T恤制作完成后，我解释说我不能穿任何带有文字的衣服，尤其是“后方送货”字样的衣服。 “你是同性恋，不是吗？”摄影师问道。
"It says right here in your press kit.
“你的新闻资料袋里就写着。
Have I got the wrong person?" When it came to wearing that t-shirt he most definitely had the wrong person.
我是不是认错人了？”说到穿那件T恤，他肯定认错人了。
"Well, maybe you can turn it inside out," he said.
“好吧，也许你可以把它翻过来，”他说。
"We won't be seeing much of it anyway since I'd like to get you crouched down on your hands and knees.
“无论如何，我们不会看到太多，因为我想让你用手和膝盖蹲下来。
Seeing as you're an author and all, I thought it might be fun if we shot you cleaning the bathroom floor, the black and white tiles are going to look great.
考虑到你是一名作家，我想如果我们拍摄你清洁浴室地板的镜头可能会很有趣，黑白瓷砖看起来会很棒。
So what do you say you change out of that shirt and we get started?"
那么你觉得你把那件衬衫换掉然后我们开始吧？”
Then he called for his assistant to fill up a bucket of sudsy water, adding that the bubbles on top should be as fat as possible.
然后他叫助手装了一桶泡沫水，并补充说上面的泡沫要尽可能的肥厚。
As a professional photographer, I have to say that my two greatest assets are my tenacity and my sense of humor.
作为一名专业摄影师，我不得不说我最大的两大资产是我的坚韧和幽默感。
These are the tools I use on a daily basis because it's not just knowing how to operate a camera, it's also knowing how to get into a person's head, really camp out for a while.
这些是我每天使用的工具，因为它不仅仅是知道如何操作相机，它还知道如何进入一个人的头脑，真正露营一段时间。
I'm not saying this right.
我这话说得不对。
So let me give you a little example.
让我给你举一个小例子。
After she won the Pulitzer Prize, everyone thought of Bobby Fingerton as some sort of a genius.
在她获得普利策奖后，每个人都认为鲍比·芬格顿是某种天才。
Which is fine, but you could tell she'd really let it go to her head.
这很好，但你可以看出她真的已经把这件事放在心上了。
It wasn't physically huge, not like a medicine ball, but you could see that she had this, um, this, uh, false idea of her own value or whatever.
它的体积并不大，不像健身球，但你可以看到她对自己的价值或其他什么有这个，嗯，这个，呃，错误的想法。
This is something a person like me can spot right off the bat.
这是像我这样的人可以立即发现的事情。
It's a gift I have.
这是我的一份礼物。
Just like my sense of humor and my tenacity.
就像我的幽默感和坚韧一样。
I'd seen her picture in a few of the weeklies and she was always, um, and she was always enthroned, you know what I mean?
我在一些周刊上看到过她的照片，她总是，嗯，她总是登基，你知道我的意思吗？
Just sitting there, propped up against the sofa cushions with a quill in her hands.
只是坐在那里，靠在沙发垫上，手里拿着一支羽毛笔。
Terrible pictures.
可怕的照片。
They put you right to sleep but that's how it is when the photographer caves in to someone who's clinging to this very, very antique-y, destructive sense of dignity.
它们让你入睡，但当摄影师屈服于一个坚持这种非常非常古老的、具有破坏性的尊严感的人时，情况就是这样。
She clearly likes to play the grand duchess, but me?
她明明很喜欢扮演女大公，但我呢？
I'm looking for something wacky.
我正在寻找一些古怪的东西。
Something nutty that will jump off the page saying, hey, is this person crazy or what?
页面上会跳出一些疯狂的东西，说，嘿，这个人疯了还是什么？
I mean, people like that.
我的意思是，人们就是这样。
It's a kick.
这是一脚。
It's easy when you're taking a picture of an actor because they'll just do anything for attention.
当你给演员拍照时这很容易，因为他们会做任何事来吸引注意力。
I'm like, excuse me Mr. Cutahey but do you think you could maybe dip your head into this cauldron of steaming cocoa?
我想，对不起，库塔希先生，但是你认为你可以把头伸进这锅热气腾腾的可可里吗？
And before I can tell him we need to wait a while and let it cool down, I look up and guy's already done it.
在我告诉他我们需要等一会儿让它冷却下来之前，我抬头一看，家伙已经完成了。
I mean, there he is, his skin peeling off in sheets and he's there asking if he should do it again because that's the way actors are.
我的意思是，他就在那里，他的皮肤剥落成床单，他在那里问他是否应该再做一次，因为这就是演员的方式。
They're not calling out the hounds or blubbering to their publicists, because they know how to cooperate and have a little fun.
他们不会向他们的公关人员大声喊叫或哭诉，因为他们知道如何合作并享受一点乐趣。
Actors are no problem, whatsoever.
演员一点问题都没有。
But get yourself a politician or anyone owning a typewriter and you're in for a first class headache because these people have egos like you wouldn't believe.
但如果你自己是一名政客或任何拥有打字机的人，你就会陷入头疼的境地，因为这些人的自负程度让你难以置信。
And you can quote me on that.
你可以引用我的话。
Can we get another round here?
我们可以在这里再打一轮吗？
Yeah, thank you.
是的，谢谢。
You're a lovely individual.
你是一个可爱的人。
I told myself I'd try to be more aggressive and stand up to these photographers, but so far it isn't working.
我告诉自己，我会尝试更加积极进取，勇敢地面对这些摄影师，但到目前为止，这还没有奏效。
I'd like to ask if they've read or even seen my new book, but the question sounds snotty.
我想问他们是否读过甚至看过我的新书，但这个问题听起来很卑鄙。
I understand that they're busy people, I'd just like to know why they think I should be pictured drinking tea with a stuffed squirrel, or cradling an oversized can of fruit cocktail.
我知道他们是忙碌的人，我只是想知道为什么他们认为我应该被拍到和一只毛绒松鼠一起喝茶，或者抱着一罐超大的水果鸡尾酒。
I've never written about either of those things.
我从来没有写过这两件事。
My theory is that if you're good looking, they'll dress you up in embarrassingly trendy clothes but at least allow you stand upright.
我的理论是，如果你长得好看，他们会给你穿上令人尴尬的时髦衣服，但至少让你站得直。
If you happen to be on the plain side they'll come up with a gimmick designed to make you look even worse than you already do.
如果你碰巧是朴素的一面，他们就会想出一个花招，让你看起来比现在更糟糕。
To complain is to insist against all reason that you're good looking, and that's even more embarrassing than going along with the humiliating little scenarios these people always seem so proud of.
抱怨就是否认自己长得好看的所有理由，这比顺从这些人总是引以为豪的羞辱性小场景更令人尴尬。
Today's photographer studied me for a few moments before asking if I'd brought another change of clothes.
今天的摄影师研究了我一会儿，然后问我是否还带了换洗的衣服。
With the help of his assistant he then proceeded to clamp a large sheet of glass to a standing metal frame.
然后，在助手的帮助下，他将一大块玻璃夹在一个直立的金属框架上。
Once the window was securely in place, he asked his assistant for a carton of milk.
窗户固定到位后，他向助手要了一盒牛奶。
Then he looked at me, took a sip of the milk, and spat it out onto the glass.
然后他看着我，抿了一口牛奶，然后把它吐到了玻璃杯上。
"What I want you do," he said, "is to press your face again that milk stain.
“我要你做的，”他说，“就是把你脸上的奶渍再次压下去。
Really smash it up against there as hard as you can." When I hesitated he said, "Don't worry, the glass isn't going to fall.
真的尽你最大的努力把它砸到那里。”当我犹豫时，他说：“别担心，玻璃不会掉下来。
We've made sure of that."
我们已经确定了这一点。”
In his mind, this was my only concern.
在他看来，这是我唯一关心的事情。
That the glass might break.
以免玻璃破裂。
So a servant leads me into the house and I walk into this paneled office where Bobby Fingerton raised her fat head and lowers those little half glasses people wear when they want to look smart or something.
于是，一个仆人领着我进了屋子，我走进了一间镶着镶板的办公室，鲍比·芬格顿（Bobby Fingerton）抬起了她那胖乎乎的头，放下了人们在想显得聪明或其他什么的时候戴的那副小半框眼镜。
Now, I don't know what she's thinking, but I'm wondering, how can we turn this thing around and have a little fun with it?
现在，我不知道她在想什么，但我想知道，我们怎样才能扭转这件事并从中获得一点乐趣呢？
Because, hey, I'm a professional too.
因为，嘿，我也是专业人士。
I deserve a little respect.
我值得一点尊重。
But when I very playfully suggested it might be funny shoot her dressed as Aunt Jemima, I swear to God, the woman bit my head right off my shoulders.
但当我开玩笑地建议把她打扮成杰米玛姨妈可能会很有趣时，我向上帝发誓，那个女人把我的头从肩膀上咬了下来。
Not literally, but, you know, as a figure of speech.
不是字面上的意思，而是，你知道，作为一种修辞手法。
And I'm a smart person so when she refused the Aunt Jemima bit I figured she had some sort of a weight issue, which, OK, I'm as sensitive as the next guy.
我是个聪明人，所以当她拒绝杰迈玛阿姨的建议时，我认为她有某种体重问题，好吧，我和其他人一样敏感。
I can deal with that.
我可以处理这个问题。
So I said, all right, what if we shoot you as Prissy from Gone With the Wind or maybe, I don't know, Moms Mabley, she was thin.
所以我说，好吧，如果我们把你拍成《乱世佳人》中的百里茜，或者，我不知道，梅布利妈妈，她很瘦。
I was trying to work with her.
我试图和她一起工作。
Maybe, you know, have some laughs but she automatically assumed this, this expression.
也许，你知道，笑一笑，但她自然而然地做出了这种表情。
I don't know what else to call it.
我不知道还能叫它什么。
She looked like she was sucking on a handful of change.
她看上去就像是在吮吸一把零钱。
Just horrible.
太可怕了。
Hateful face and for no reason whatsoever.
满脸仇恨，毫无理由。
But me, see, I've been at this a long time and I knew there was no way I was going to back off, not on this one.
但我，你看，我已经这么做了很长时间了，我知道我不可能退缩，尤其是在这件事上。
Because if nothing else this business has taught me how to read people.
因为如果没有别的，这个行业教会了我如何读懂别人。
Not their books or whatever.
不是他们的书或其他什么。
But their inner, inner stuff.
但他们内心深处的东西。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
All the psychological crap that makes them tick or whatever.
所有让他们打勾的心理废话什么的。
So when Bobby Fingerton refused to dress like Aunt Jemima or Moms Mabely I suddenly got the message.
因此，当鲍比·芬格顿（Bobby Fingerton）拒绝穿得像杰米玛阿姨或梅贝利妈妈时，我突然明白了这一点。
That underneath all the praise, all the hoopla, she was ashamed of being black.
在所有的赞美和喧嚣之下，她为自己是黑人而感到羞耻。
And it was like, like a light went on in my head.
就好像我脑子里亮起了灯。
It was like, bingo.
就像宾果游戏一样。
I always thought there was nothing worse than a tech rehearsal but that was before I met today's photographer.
我一直认为没有什么比技术排练更糟糕的了，但那是在我遇到今天的摄影师之前。
Because we're busy trying to open this play, I asked if he would mind coming to the theater.
因为我们正忙着开演这部戏，我问他是否介意来剧院。
He set up his lights in the basement and greeted me saying, "You're a smoker aren't you?
他在地下室点亮了灯，向我打招呼说：“你是个烟民，不是吗？
Do I have the right person?" I said, "Yes.
我有合适的人吗？”我说：“是的。
I smoke." And he handed me a package of novelty cigarettes designed to look as though they were lit.
我抽烟。”他递给我一包新奇的香烟，看起来就像是点燃的。
"I want you to put these in your mouth," he said.
“我要你把这些放进嘴里，”他说。
"Not the individual cigarettes, but the whole package."
“不是单支香烟，而是整个包装。”
There were maybe three cigarettes altogether but what with the cardboard backing and the plastic cover, the package was the size of one of those soap carriers children sometimes take to camp.
总共可能有三支香烟，但加上纸板背衬和塑料盖，包装的大小就像孩子们有时带去露营的肥皂盒一样大。
It was a tight and nasty tasting fit, but whenever you complain the photographers act like you're ruining not just their day but their entire life.
这是一种紧张而令人讨厌的搭配，但每当你抱怨时，摄影师就会表现得好像你不仅毁了他们的一天，还毁了他们的整个生活。
This is their livelihood and here you are, spoiling it with your vanity.
这是他们的生计，而你却在这里，用你的虚荣心破坏了他们的生计。
The underlying message is that they're doing you a favor.
潜在的信息是他们在帮你一个忙。
Here you'll be in a magazine, people will read about you and maybe buy the book, shouldn't you be grateful?
在这里，你会出现在一本杂志上，人们会读到你的故事，也许还会买这本书，你难道不应该心存感激吗？
I thought of the people who might buy the book based on this picture, and then I withdrew the package from my mouth saying that it felt silly to me.
我想到了可能会根据这张照片购买这本书的人，然后我从嘴里收回包裹，说我觉得这很傻。
I thought I explained myself fairly well.
我以为我已经很好地解释了自己。
The photographer crossed his arms and nodded in all the right places before saying, "What if we get you lying on the ground with an extension cord in your mouth?
摄影师交叉双臂，在所有正确的地方点点头，然后说道：“如果我们让你躺在地上，嘴里叼着一根延长线怎么办？
That might be fun.
那可能很有趣。
What do you say?"
你说什么？”
So Bobby Fingerton gave me three options.
所以鲍比·芬格顿给了我三个选择。
She said I could either photograph her standing beside the window, seated at what I thought was a very pretentious desk made from the hatch of an old slave ship, or else I could leave.
她说我要么给她站在窗边拍照，坐在一张我认为是用一艘旧奴隶船的舱口制成的非常自命不凡的桌子前，要么我可以离开。
I mean, can you beat that?
我的意思是，你能打败它吗？
She's telling me what to do.
她在告诉我该怎么做。
Now, I wasn't about to lower myself to her level so I let her think that oh, she'd really busted my balls.
现在，我不想把自己降低到她的水平，所以我让她觉得哦，她真的把我的蛋蛋搞砸了。
Like, oh, I'm really hurting now.
就像，哦，我现在真的很痛。
And I said, very formal like, I said, "All right then Ms. Fingerton, let's try you standing by the window."
我说，非常正式地说，“好吧，芬格顿女士，让我们试试你站在窗边。”
So she takes her post and I knocked off maybe two or three rolls.
所以她就任了她的职位，我大概完成了两到三卷。
And then I had my assistant sneak outside and toss an M80 into her window box just to see what would happen.
然后我让我的助理偷偷溜出去，把一台 M80 扔进她窗边的盒子里，看看会发生什么。
Talk about that a good hunch.
谈论这是一个很好的预感。
What with the noise of the shattered glass her eyes, I swear on my mother's grave, the size of [LAUGHTER] coasters, and her mouth closed up into this perfect little circle that was just, that was just-- I mean, the word priceless doesn't even begin to do it justice.
伴随着玻璃破碎的声音，她的眼睛，我对着我母亲的坟墓发誓，[笑声]杯垫那么大，她的嘴闭上成这个完美的小圆圈，那只是，那只是——我的意思是，无价这个词甚至还没有开始公正地表达它。
It was one of those moments when you know for certain that there is indeed a God and he's actually playing on your team.
那是你确信确实有一位上帝并且他实际上在你的球队中踢球的时刻之一。
No questions asked.
没有提出任何问题。
So, I got the whole thing on film, which was just an absolute gas.
所以，我把整个事情都拍到了胶片上，那绝对是一种气体。
I still-- just last night I looked at it and gave myself a stomach ache I was laughing so hard.
我仍然——就在昨晚，我看着它，让自己肚子疼，我笑得很厉害。
After the shot I took the best picture back to the studio and-- we have computers and so forth.
拍摄结束后，我把最好的照片带回工作室——我们有电脑等等。
So what I did was darken her skin a little and erase the view from her window.
所以我所做的就是把她的皮肤调暗一点，并抹去她窗户上的景色。
There's some flowering trees or whatever, but I blotted them out and replaced them with this field of watermelons that just stretched on and on forever.
有一些开花的树什么的，但我把它们抹掉了，取而代之的是这片一直延伸到永远的西瓜田。
Because the whole thing just screamed Mammy.
因为整件事让妈妈尖叫起来。
But in a good way, because-- I don't know when the last time you saw that movie, but Mammy was actually a very nurturing person.
但从好的方面来说，因为——我不知道你上次看那部电影是什么时候，但妈妈实际上是一个非常有教养的人。
The shot was-- I don't mean to brag or anything-- but it was pretty amazing in terms of being out there, approaching that line between funny and maybe too funny for certain kinds of people.
这个镜头是——我并不是想吹牛什么的——但就在那里而言，它非常令人惊奇，接近于有趣和对某些类型的人来说可能太有趣之间的界限。
The magazine decided to put it on the cover and once it came out the Fingerton crowed went absolutely bananas.
杂志决定把它放在封面上，一出版，芬格顿就彻底疯了。
I mean, her majesty wrote me a five page hate letter just teaming with spelling errors.
我的意思是，女王陛下给我写了一封五页的仇恨信，其中有拼写错误。
If she wants to continue publishing these books of hers, she really needs to lighten up and have some fun.
如果她想继续出版自己的这些书，她确实需要放松一下，玩点乐子。
To see her take this too seriously would actually cause me pain.
看到她太认真地对待这件事实际上会让我感到痛苦。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
Stuff like this just tears me up.
这样的事情让我泪流满面。
I swear it does.
我发誓确实如此。
David Sedaris read from his diaries.
大卫·塞达里斯读了他的日记。
[?
[？
Toby Warey ?] played the photographer.
托比·韦里？]扮演摄影师。
Amy Sedaris played the woman silently listening at the bar.
艾米·塞德丽丝扮演在酒吧里默默聆听的女人。
Act Two, The Good, the Bad and the Wacky.
第二幕，好的，坏的和古怪的。
Wacky sells and wacky is being sold to us.
古怪的东西被卖了，古怪的东西也被卖给了我们。
From the new Carrot Top movie to reissues of 1950s lounge music to Nick at Night, souvenir lunch boxes from old TV shows, and lava lamps, and anything at all having to do with The Brady Bunch , there is a mass merchandising of pre-digestive kitsch in our American culture right now.
从新上映的《Carrot Top》电影到重新发行的 20 世纪 50 年代休闲音乐，再到《Nick at Night》、旧电视节目中的纪念品午餐盒、熔岩灯，以及任何与《布雷迪家族》有关的一切，如今，我们的美国文化中充斥着大量未经消化的媚俗商品。
And is that always a bad thing?
这总是一件坏事吗？
Is it always somebody's cynical marketing idea?
这总是某人愤世嫉俗的营销理念吗？
Is there good wackiness out there?
那里有很好的古怪吗？
I mean, there are things that are wacky.
我的意思是，有些事情很古怪。
I do believe in the concept of wacky but I agree with you that it's being misused horribly.
我确实相信古怪的概念，但我同意你的观点，它被严重滥用了。
Josh Glenn is editor of Hermenaut , a magazine that analyzes pop culture in all sorts of ways.
乔什·格伦 (Josh Glenn) 是《Hermenaut》杂志的编辑，该杂志以各种方式分析流行文化。
And we asked him for guidance in distinguishing in the flood of wacky that surrounds us, between good wacky and bad wacky.
我们请求他指导如何在我们周围的大量古怪事物中区分好古怪和坏古怪。
Glenn says if we want to understand this we have to begin with the way that things are made, the intent behind them.
格伦说，如果我们想理解这一点，我们必须从事物的制造方式及其背后的意图开始。
Some products and films and books which end up classified as wacky are things that were created without any kind of wacky intent.
一些最终被归类为古怪的产品、电影和书籍是在没有任何古怪意图的情况下创建的。
Objects in films and songs that were created in pure earnestness, meant to be taken seriously.
电影和歌曲中的物品是纯粹真诚地创作的，应该被认真对待。
And then, at the other end of the scale, there are things that are created from the outset with the intention of being wacky.
然后，在天平的另一端，有些东西从一开始就抱着古怪的目的而被创造出来。
The daffy, the zany.
傻乎乎的，滑稽的。
Like Bugs Bunny cartoons, Jim Carrey movies, Adam Sandler.
比如兔八哥卡通片、金·凯瑞电影、亚当·桑德勒。
Stuff that, you know, it was created wackily and it's meant to be received wackily.
你知道，这些东西是被古怪地创造出来的，并且注定会被古怪地接受。
I don't have a problem with that.
我对此没有意见。
No. I mean, I like Adam Sandler movies a lot.
不，我的意思是，我非常喜欢亚当·桑德勒的电影。
I hate Jim Carrey, but Adam Sandler is great.
我讨厌金·凯瑞，但亚当·桑德勒很棒。
That's wackiness done really well.
这件古怪事做得真好。
Three Stooges I used to watch a lot when I was a kid.
《三个臭皮匠》我小时候经常看。
Vaudeville stuff, that's wacky.
歌舞杂耍的东西，太古怪了。
It's interesting because I never thought about it this way before, but there simply is wacky which is done better and wacky which is done worse.
这很有趣，因为我以前从未这样想过，但只是有做得更好的古怪和做得更差的古怪。
Now, here's the thing.
现在，事情是这样的。
And here's where I think the out of whack is confused with the wacky in our culture, if you will.
如果你愿意的话，我认为这就是我们文化中的不正常与古怪相混淆的地方。
The way these cultural products are created and the way they are received obviously don't always line up just right.
这些文化产品的创造方式和接受方式显然并不总是完全一致。
Something that was created with a great deal of earnestness might completely fail at what it was trying to do.
非常认真地创造出来的东西可能会完全失败。
Let's take an example.
让我们举个例子。
Josh Glenn If you think of, like, Ed Wood movies as a classic example.
乔什·格伦（Josh Glenn） 如果你认为艾德·伍德（Ed Wood）电影就是一个典型的例子。
He wasn't joking when he made Plan 9 From Outer Space He was trying to make a science fiction movie.
当他制作《外太空九号计划》时，他并不是在开玩笑，他只是想拍一部科幻电影。
He thought it was a good movie.
他认为这是一部好电影。
I'm not saying that he was in earnest in the sense that he was trying to uplift us or anything, he was just trying to entertain us.
我并不是说他是认真的，因为他试图提升我们或任何其他东西，他只是想娱乐我们。
But it was a very in earnest attempt to make a good science fiction movie.
但这是制作一部优秀科幻电影的一次非常认真的尝试。
He failed completely because he's a terrible director.
他彻底失败了，因为他是一个糟糕的导演。
However, he had a really original vision and he wasn't being wacky.
然而，他有一个真正原创的愿景，而且他并不古怪。
he wasn't just trying to make us split our sides at watching his movies.
他不仅仅是想让我们在看他的电影时分裂。
Like Jim Carrey's movies.
就像金凯瑞的电影一样。
Everything that's out of whack is not wacky.
一切不正常的事情并不古怪。
If you see what I'm saying.
如果你明白我说的话。
So when I go into a video store and I see an Ed Wood movie and it's package wackily and they talk about the wacky vision of Ed Wood on the back cover, that's aggravating.
因此，当我走进一家音像店，看到一部艾德·伍德的电影，它的包装很古怪，而且他们在封底上谈论艾德·伍德的古怪景象时，这让我很恼火。
And Plan 9 From Outer Space is just wacky.
来自外太空的九号计划实在是太古怪了。
and if you rent it all, which you probably wouldn't, you'd rent it when you feel like laughing at something.
如果你把它全部租下来（你可能不会这么做），当你想嘲笑某件事时，你就会租它。
Having a sort of hipper than thou evening, I guess.
我猜，比你晚上更时髦。
It's great that they found some way to sell them, get them in the stores.
很高兴他们找到了一些方法来销售它们，将它们带到商店。
You know, whatever.
你知道，无论如何。
I'm happy to rent a movie that's package is wacky if that's what it takes to get it in the store.
我很乐意租一部包装很古怪的电影，如果这就是在商店里买到它所需要的。
However, I think you could also talk about the wackification of American culture, where we are really not allowed to see anything that's between earnest and silly.
不过，我想你也可以谈谈美国文化的怪异，我们真的不被允许看到任何介于认真和愚蠢之间的东西。
When, of course, you can look at all kinds of cultural products that were meant to be taken very seriously and find them funny.
当然，当你看到各种本应被认真对待的文化产品时，你会发现它们很有趣。
Yet, at the same time, have a lot of respect for them or find them beautiful or find them moving.
但同时，也要非常尊重他们，或者觉得他们很美丽，或者觉得他们很感动。
There's all kinds of more emotionally engaged ways you can deal with failed seriousness.
有各种更情绪化的方法可以处理失败的严肃性。
Like for example you, what would be something like that?
比如你，会是什么样子？
For me, like ABBA for instance.
对我来说，比如ABBA。
ABBA is an example of failed seriousness.
ABBA 就是一个不严肃的例子。
Their music is not intended to be funny.
他们的音乐并不是为了搞笑。
It's extremely overly passionate, overly dripping with emotion and sentimentality in a way that we find hilarious now.
它过于热情，过于充满情感和感伤，以至于我们现在觉得很搞笑。
Yet, at the same time, they meant it.
但与此同时，他们也确实是这么想的。
And if can sort of engage with what they were trying to do, you can both laugh in it, and be very moved by it.
如果能参与到他们想做的事情中，你们既可以在其中大笑，也可以被感动。
And that's your relation to it.
这就是你与它的关系。
That's what you feel about ABBA.
这就是您对 ABBA 的感受。
Josh Glenn.
乔什·格伦.
His essay in the latest issue of Hermenaut distinguishes between two reactions to wackiness or kitsch.
他在最新一期《Hermenaut》上发表的文章区分了对古怪或媚俗的两种反应。
Those two reactions, camp, a kind of loving, emotionally engaged response, and cheese, which sneers at it.
这两种反应，坎普，一种爱的、情感投入的反应，和奶酪，一种嘲笑它的反应。
Act Three, The Politics of Wackiness.
第三幕，古怪的政治。
Some of the most interesting reporting in the 1996 presidential election was by Michael Lewis, who published his campaign diaries in the New Republic magazine and then wrote a book, Trail Fever , from those diaries.
1996 年总统选举中一些最有趣的报道来自迈克尔·刘易斯 (Michael Lewis)，他在《新共和》杂志上发表了他的竞选日记，然后根据这些日记写了一本书《Trail Fever》。
Before that he wrote a book called Liar's Poker about his years working on Wall Street.
在此之前，他写了一本名为《说谎者的扑克》的书，讲述了他在华尔街工作的岁月。
On the campaign trail he noticed that the candidates who tended to have any original ideas at all, the candidates who were the most interesting, were usually pegged by the media as being, guess, wacky.
在竞选过程中，他注意到那些往往有任何原创想法的候选人，那些最有趣的候选人，通常被媒体认为是，猜猜，古怪的。
I think that it's not just in politics but also in big business.
我认为这不仅在政治上如此，在大商业上也是如此。
I think you find that anybody who's got the ring of authenticity, anybody who behaves the way real human beings behave in a context where powerful men are engaged in their epic struggle for power, gets tagged with being wacky, or being offbeat or oddball.
我认为你会发现，任何具有真实性的人，任何在有权势的人参与史诗般的权力斗争的背景下以真正的人类方式行事的人，都会被贴上古怪、另类或古怪的标签。
I mean, there's nothing more alarming or dissonant in national politics than a politician that tells the truth and talks like a ordinary human being talks.
我的意思是，在国家政治中，没有什么比一个说真话、像普通人一样说话的政客更令人震惊或不和谐的了。
As opposed to the way a national politician talks.
与国家政客说话的方式相反。
So let me ask you to give an example of a candidate like this.
因此，让我请您举一个这样的候选人的例子。
Probably the best example is Morry Taylor.
最好的例子可能是莫里·泰勒。
He was this guy who'd come out of the midwest who ran a, what?
他是一个来自中西部的人，经营着什么？
A billion and a half dollar company and whose workers adored him and who was qualified in every way really to be talking about some of the big problems that faced the country.
这是一家价值十亿五千万美元的公司，员工们都很崇拜他，而且他在各方面都有资格真正谈论这个国家面临的一些重大问题。
But because he was funny and because he didn't take himself or the process all too seriously, he got tagged as being kind of odd and offbeat and not serious.
但因为他很有趣，而且因为他没有太认真地对待自己或整个过程，所以他被贴上了奇怪、另类、不严肃的标签。
He talked-- he was the only guy I met on the whole campaign trail who was running for office who talked to me the way normal people talk.
他说话——他是我在整个竞选过程中遇到的唯一一个以正常人说话方式与我交谈的人。
And who made sense to me in some ways.
在某些方面他对我来说是有意义的。
And yet, precisely for that reason, he was marginalized.
然而，正是因为这个原因，他被边缘化了。
And considered wacky, considered not to be a serious contender, not to be the sort of person who could get elected president.
并且被认为是古怪的，被认为不是一个真正的竞争者，不是那种可以当选总统的人。
And he had serious ideas as well, right?
他也有严肃的想法，对吗？
Oh, very serious ideas.
哦，非常严肃的想法。
In fact, when you took his ideas, when you stripped them away from the man and you just pulled the ideas, he routinely beat Clinton and Dole.
事实上，当你接受他的想法，当你把它们从这个人身上剥离出来，然后你只是把这些想法拿走时，他经常击败克林顿和多尔。
I mean, people would say, we want that platform as opposed to the Clinton platform or the Dole platform.
我的意思是，人们会说，我们想要这个平台，而不是克林顿平台或多尔平台。
His platform was perfectly respectable.
他的平台非常受人尊敬。
It was that it was being presented-- the problem wasn't the message, it was the messenger.
问题在于它正在被呈现——问题不在于消息，而在于信使。
That the messenger was a real person.
那个使者是一个真实的人。
And that was not, that's not what you do in politics.
但事实并非如此，这不是你在政治中所做的事情。
You're not allowed to be funny.
你不被允许搞笑。
You're not allowed to be funny, I'll put in another way, you're not allowed to be funny when you're also serious at the same time.
你不可以搞笑，我换句话说，当你同时严肃的时候，你不可以搞笑。
The jokes have a certain place.
这些笑话有一定的地位。
But funny serious doesn't really work.
但搞笑的严肃其实并没有什么作用。
A joke is, in politics, something you tell at the beginning of your serious speech and everybody knows it's the joke because it's the beginning of the speech and it's the one about the three farmers in Iowa.
在政治中，笑话是指你在严肃的演讲开始时所说的事情，每个人都知道这是一个笑话，因为这是演讲的开始，而且是关于爱荷华州三个农民的演讲。
It's not actually funny.
这其实并不好笑。
It's a ritual joke.
这是一个仪式性的笑话。
But to be actually funny, that's dangerous.
但实际上，这很危险。
To use humor as a way of conveying ideas, that's not so good.
用幽默来表达想法，这不太好。
It makes people nervous.
这让人紧张。
I remember one of the most memorable scenes in Trail Fever , when you were out there, is that you had heard about Alan Keyes, Republican candidate, very serious guy.
我记得《Trail Fever》中最令人难忘的场景之一，当你在那里时，你听说过艾伦·凯斯（Alan Keyes），共和党候选人，一个非常严肃的人。
And you'd heard about him and you were anticipating he was going to be completely wacky, from what you had heard.
你听说过他，并且从你所听到的情况来看，你预计他会变得非常古怪。
Wacky is putting it kindly.
Wacky 是善意地说的。
I thought he was possibly insane.
我觉得他可能疯了。
All you heard about this guy was there's this crazy black man running for the Republican nomination.
你所听说的关于这个人的一切就是这个疯狂的黑人正在竞选共和党提名。
And nobody takes him seriously.
没有人认真对待他。
But when you actually got out there with him--
但当你真正和他一起出去时——
Then you actually went and saw one of his speeches.
然后你真的去看了他的一场演讲。
And it was the most extraordinary thing.
这是最不寻常的事情。
I mean, he was in the middle of the dead of a winner, in the middle of a snowstorm, in the middle of Iowa.
我的意思是，他正处于胜利者的死者中间，在暴风雪中，在爱荷华州中部。
500 farmers turn out hear Alan Keyes say what he has to say.
500 名农民前来聆听艾伦·凯斯 (Alan Keyes) 的讲话。
And it turns out that he's speaking very sincerely to what people want to hear.
事实证明，他非常真诚地表达了人们想听的话。
He had a single message.
他只有一条消息。
And the message was, look America, all you want to talk about is money and money problems, the deficit, taxes, so on and so forth.
传达的信息是，看看美国，你们只想谈论金钱和金钱问题、赤字、税收等等。
But the real problems in this country are moral problems, not money problems.
但这个国家真正的问题是道德问题，而不是金钱问题。
He was genuinely a moralist.
他是一位真正的道德家。
And the way he presented his views was pulpit thumping.
他表达自己观点的方式堪称讲坛上的重磅炸弹。
I mean, he would burn the paint off the walls when he talked.
我的意思是，他说话时会把墙上的油漆烧掉。
It was the most extraordinary display of oratorical skill.
这是演讲技巧最非凡的表现。
But even that, in fact, doesn't really have its place in presidential politics anymore because it's extreme, it's entertaining.
但事实上，即使这样，在总统政治中也不再占有一席之地，因为它很极端，很有趣。
That's not what you do.
那不是你所做的。
I mean, the phoniest candidates in some ways were taken the most serious simply because they were phony.
我的意思是，在某些方面，最虚伪的候选人仅仅因为他们虚伪而被最认真地对待。
Lamar Alexander was taken seriously for no reason other than he was a great phony and people assume that great phonies succeed in that process.
拉马尔·亚历山大之所以受到认真对待，只是因为他是一个大骗子，人们认为大骗子会在这个过程中取得成功。
Anybody who was authentic, or had any kind of integrity started with one strike against them because people just assumed, or reporters just assumed, that this character isn't suited for the process.
任何真诚的人，或者有任何正直的人，都会一开始就对他们进行打击，因为人们只是假设，或者记者只是假设，这个角色不适合这个过程。
It's interesting because the same thing-- I'm just thinking about what you're saying about how serious and funny aren't allowed to coexist in the same person.
这很有趣，因为同一件事——我只是在想你所说的严肃和有趣是不允许在同一个人身上共存的。
In the news itself, in a certain way, like in the way the news media covers things, series and funny are segregated usually.
在新闻本身中，在某种程度上，就像新闻媒体报道事物的方式一样，连续剧和搞笑通常是分开的。
In mainstream news, think about the network news.
在主流新闻中，想想网络新闻。
Oh yes.
哦是的。
The anchors, if you really look at them, they will tell you, oh, now we-- every now and then they might do something that's a joke, and they tell the joke about the spaghetti harvest in Italy where people are actually getting spaghetti off of trees, or whatever it is they're doing, some joke story.
主播们，如果你认真观察他们，他们会告诉你，哦，现在我们——时不时地他们可能会做一些开玩笑的事情，他们会讲一个关于意大利意大利面条收获的笑话，人们实际上是从树上摘意大利面条，或者无论他们在做什么，一些笑话故事。
But it's a joke story.
但这是一个笑话故事。
If you're doing a serious story, humor is never allowed to creep into it.
如果你正在写一个严肃的故事，那么决不允许幽默渗入其中。
You ask why that is.
你问这是为什么。
I mean, it's a great question why that is.
我的意思是，这是一个很好的问题，为什么会这样。
I think it's because the people who are in the seriousness business, big businessmen, national politicians, national news reporters, one of their great fears is to be taken unseriously.
我认为这是因为那些从事严肃性行业的人，大商人，国家政治家，国家新闻记者，他们最大的恐惧之一就是被不认真对待。
That they're seriousness what they're selling.
他们卖的东西是认真的。
And they can never let that guard down, because if they let it down then all of a sudden they open themselves to a different kind of criticism.
他们永远不能放松警惕，因为如果他们放松了警惕，他们就会突然面临不同类型的批评。
Oh, he's not a serious person.
哦，他不是一个严肃的人。
Do you think we actually pay a political price as a nation for this kind of segregation that we do between seriousness on the one hand and wackiness on the other?
你认为作为一个国家，我们是否真的为这种严肃与古怪之间的隔离付出了政治代价？
That is, everybody gets classified or seems to get classified in political life-- you're either one or the other and there's very little middle ground.
也就是说，在政治生活中，每个人都被分类，或者似乎被分类——你要么是其中之一，要么是另一个，几乎没有中间立场。
You're either the super serious candidate, a little pompous, or you're just discarded as the kind of wacky goofball.
你要么是超级认真的候选人，有点自负，要么就是被当作那种古怪的傻瓜而被抛弃。
Including people who are very serious like Pat Buchanan.
包括像帕特·布坎南这样非常严肃的人。
It's very clear that the price you pay is you don't get a very honest public debate.
很明显，你付出的代价是你没有得到非常诚实的公开辩论。
There are lots of things you can't say just because it doesn't sound right.
有很多事情你不能仅仅因为听起来不对就说出来。
And sounding right is all important.
听起来正确非常重要。
And sounding right means being serious all the time.
听起来正确意味着始终严肃。
The second price you pay, and it's hard to measure, is that no one is interested.
你付出的第二个代价很难衡量，那就是没有人感兴趣。
It doesn't ring true the way issues are discussed.
讨论问题的方式听起来并不正确。
It does seem like people just posturing.
看起来确实像是人们在摆姿势。
And the reason it seems that way is because that's what they're doing.
之所以看起来如此，是因为这就是他们正在做的事情。
Michael Lewis.
迈克尔·刘易斯.
Author of the book Trail Fever.
《踪迹狂热》一书的作者。
Coming up, what the truly wacky do with the nation's leading business newspaper.
接下来，真正古怪的人会如何利用美国领先的商业报纸。
How Peter Jennings can help you evade wackiness and seriousness.
彼得·詹宁斯如何帮助您避免古怪和严肃。
And Sarah Vowel, A Streetcar Named Desire , and William Shatner together in the same story.
莎拉·沃维尔、《欲望号街车》和威廉·夏特纳一起出现在同一个故事中。
That's in a minute.
就在一分钟之内。
From Public Radio International when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，来自国际公共广播电台。
It's This American Life , I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Death to Wacky.
今天的节目，古怪之死。
Or, rather, 13 ways to describe wacky.
或者更确切地说，有 13 种描述古怪的方式。
And in our irrepressible, madcap style, we've now skipped to Act Eleven.
以我们无法抑制的、疯狂的风格，我们现在跳到第十一幕。
This program goes to 11.
这个程序进行到11点。
Self-Made Wacky.
自制的古怪。
Not all wackiness is, of course, created by marketers and merchandisers.
当然，并非所有的古怪行为都是由营销人员和销售人员创造的。
No, no, no, no, no. It occurs in nature.
不，不，不，不，不。它发生在自然界中。
Some people simply see themselves as wacky.
有些人只是认为自己很古怪。
Take this personals ad from the Chicago Reader .
以《芝加哥读者报》的这则交友广告为例。
"Joining the firm.
“加入公司。
Fun, sensual, buxom, brilliant blond SWF seeks never married SWM, 34-41, exercise partner who also has adipose tissue to melt and would enjoy burning calories, regaining fitness, with wacky, warm, enthusiastic partner.
有趣、感性、丰满、才华横溢的金发 SWF 寻找从未结婚的 SWM，34-41 岁，运动伴侣，也有脂肪组织需要融化，喜欢燃烧卡路里，恢复健康，与古怪、温暖、热情的伴侣在一起。
A definite physical fitness relationship.
有一定的体能关系。
Maybe more?
也许更多？
Sincere replies only." So we gave her a call.
仅真诚回复。”所以我们给她打了电话。
I think maybe I'm just a little bit unconventional.
我想也许我只是有点不传统。
My friends do call me wacky.
我的朋友们确实说我古怪。
I mean, they think I'm pretty open-minded and just a very spontaneous kind of person.
我的意思是，他们认为我思想非常开放，是一个非常自发的人。
And I think that's what they really consider wacky to be.
我认为这才是他们真正认为古怪的地方。
And maybe also just the different things that I'm involved with, like, perhaps, I know how to speak six foreign languages.
也许也只是我参与的不同事情，比如，也许我知道如何说六种外语。
Wow.
哇。
Maria So, you know, I'll start with a language, or I'll be listening to somebody with a conversation, and then I'll just kind of like, slide right in, not even knowing the people.
玛丽亚：所以，你知道，我会从一种语言开始，或者我会听某人谈话，然后我就会直接进入，甚至不认识这些人。
And they think it's very, they think it's kind of a wacky kind of a thing to do.
他们认为这是非常、他们认为这是一件很古怪的事情。
And maybe sometimes, not all the time, in college once I pretended to be a foreign exchange student.
也许有时候，不是总是，在大学里，我曾假装是一名外国交换生。
And different maybe parties I've thrown in the past.
我过去举办过不同的聚会。
Like, you know, bring your favorite wig or Wall Street Journal party.
就像，你知道，带上你最喜欢的假发或《华尔街日报》派对。
Some kind of--
某种——
Bring your favorite wig or Wall Street Journal .
带上你最喜欢的假发或《华尔街日报》。
That the choice?
那是选择吗？
A wig or the Wall Street Journal?
假发还是华尔街日报？
No, no, no, no. Bring your favorite wig party or a Wall Street Journal party or something like that.
不，不，不，不。带上你最喜欢的假发派对或华尔街日报派对或类似的东西。
What happens at a Wall Street Journal party?
《华尔街日报》的聚会上会发生什么？
You have everybody bring the Wall Street Journal , the Wall Street Journals , and you put them all over the floor and the walls and everything.
你让每个人都带着《华尔街日报》，《华尔街日报》，然后你把它们放在地板上、墙上和所有东西上。
It's just, you know, one of the Wall Street Journal parties, that's all.
你知道，这只是《华尔街日报》的一场派对，仅此而已。
And then what happens?
然后会发生什么？
Maria And that's it.
玛丽亚 就是这样。
That's all.
就这样。
Just something fun and maybe out of the ordinary instead of, you know, just having a regular party, just tell everybody, bring a copy of the Wall Street Journal and you have a Wall Street Journal party.
只是一些有趣的，也许不寻常的事情，而不是，你知道，只是举办一个普通的聚会，只要告诉每个人，带一份《华尔街日报》，你就可以举办一个《华尔街日报》聚会。
And then you just tape it up to the walls--
然后你只需要把它粘在墙上——
Yeah, tape it up to the the walls or around the floor.
是的，把它粘在墙上或地板上。
And you put it on the floor-- Maria Whatever.
然后你把它放在地板上——玛丽亚，随便吧。
You know, that's it.
你知道，就是这样。
What happens after a few hours at a Wall Street Journal party?
参加《华尔街日报》聚会几个小时后会发生什么？
Do people talk about the Wall Street Journal ?
人们谈论《华尔街日报》吗？
Yeah, they'll talk about what they've read or what's been happening.
是的，他们会谈论他们读过的内容或正在发生的事情。
They'll give different critiques and different things and the current events that have been happening or something like that.
他们会给出不同的批评和不同的事情以及当前正在发生的事件或类似的事情。
You know, I've got to say, you know, that is wacky.
你知道，我不得不说，你知道，这很古怪。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass You know there's a kind of person who likes being called wacky and a kind of person who doesn't.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：你知道，有一种人喜欢被称为古怪，另一种人则不喜欢。
It seems like you're pretty comfortable with it.
看来你对此很满意。
Yeah.
是的。
It doesn't bother me.
我不介意。
I don't take it as a negative thing and I don't take it as a positive thing.
我不认为这是消极的事情，也不认为这是积极的事情。
I think it's just an observation.
我认为这只是一个观察。
And do you think it's wackiness when people call you back for the personalize ads?
当人们给您回电话要求个性化广告时，您是否认为这很奇怪？
Hm-mmm.
嗯嗯。
Ira Glass One of the things that we've been told by marketing people in this week's show is that wacky sells.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 在本周的展会上，营销人员告诉我们的一件事是，销售方式古怪。
Yeah, wacky sells, right.
是的，古怪的销售，对吧。
Ira Glass And are you finding that's true with you?
Ira Glass：你发现你的情况也是如此吗？
I think that wacky does sell.
我认为古怪确实很畅销。
I think that wacky sells because people are so afraid to be wacky and so they want to tap into that thing that makes them curious about what wacky is all about.
我认为古怪之所以畅销，是因为人们非常害怕变得古怪，所以他们想要利用那些让他们对古怪到底是什么感到好奇的东西。
And that wacky people do things that unwacky people are too frightened or too conservative to do.
古怪的人会做一些古怪的人因为太害怕或太保守而不敢做的事情。
So how many responses have you gotten to your ad?
那么您的广告收到了多少回复？
I have gotten probably about 30 responses, which I think is pretty good.
我大概收到了大约30条回复，我认为这已经相当不错了。
And of those have any of them mentioned the wackiness?
其中有谁提到过古怪之处吗？
Because I guess I was wondering if you think that it's wacky that's selling, or if you think it's more like, you know, fun, sensual, buxom, brilliant blond.
因为我想我想知道你是否认为它很古怪，或者你是否认为它更像是，你知道，有趣，性感，丰满，金发碧眼。
Oh, come on.
哦，来吧。
What do you think?
你怎么认为？
I think the wacky puts them at ease.
我认为古怪让他们放松。
My intention with wacky is, number one, it was very-- it's an honest description.
我对古怪的意图是，第一，这是一个非常诚实的描述。
And number two, I think it kind of puts people at ease, too, to not think that I'm some kind of fashion model or some very serious person that only perfect GQ men must apply to my ad and I won't consider anybody else.
第二，我认为这也让人们感到轻松，不会认为我是某种时装模特或某个非常严肃的人，只有完美的《GQ》男士才能申请我的广告，而且我不会考虑其他任何人。
Right.
正确的。
Sensual, buxom, brilliant blonde might be a little intimidating.
性感、丰满、才华横溢的金发女郎可能有点令人生畏。
Right.
正确的。
Exactly.
确切地。
So you know, wacky and warm is part of my package too.
所以你知道，古怪和温暖也是我的包袱的一部分。
Maria.
玛丽亚.
And advertiser in the Chicago Reader .
以及《芝加哥读者》的广告商。
Act Twelve, Evading Wacky and Serious.
第十二幕，避免古怪和严肃。
As we've said in this show, if you're in certain kinds of jobs, business, politics, the news, there are lots of jobs actually, and you're funny, you're encouraged to either suppress that side of yourself or simply become the wacky guy.
正如我们在这个节目中所说的，如果你从事某些类型的工作，商业、政治、新闻，实际上有很多工作，而且你很有趣，我们会鼓励你要么压抑自己的那一面，要么干脆成为一个古怪的人。
You can either be Edward R.
你可以是爱德华·R.
Murrow or Andy Rooney.
默罗或安迪·鲁尼。
And of course nobody is going to send Andy Rooney to cover the Oklahoma City bombing or something serious.
当然，没有人会派安迪·鲁尼去报道俄克拉荷马城爆炸案或其他严重事件。
But in that landscape there are all sorts of people who avoid being pushed into either box, people whose work has serious intent and humor and lots else besides.
但在这种情况下，有各种各样的人避免被推入任何一个盒子，他们的工作有严肃的意图和幽默等等。
Robert Krulwich is somebody like that.
罗伯特·克鲁维奇就是这样的人。
His news stories on NPR, and CBS, and ABC are surprising and like no one else's.
他在 NPR、CBS 和 ABC 上的新闻报道令人惊讶，无人能及。
I still remember today a fake opera called Grosso Interesa that he must have staged-- it must have been 15 years ago on NPR'S All Things Considered using the voice of the chairman of the federal reserve laced into actual operatic music to explain and analyze Reaganomics.
我今天还记得一部假歌剧《Grosso Interesa》，一定是他上演的——那肯定是15年前在NPR的All Things Thoughd节目中用美联储主席的声音融入真实的歌剧音乐来解释和分析里根经济学。
Krulwich says the thing about trying to occupy this territory that is neither super serious nor wacky, this middle territory, is that sometimes people simply do not know what to make of it.
克鲁维奇说，试图占领这个既不是超级严肃也不是古怪的领域，这个中间领域的问题是，有时人们根本不知道该怎么做。
And you stumble into all these unexpected responses.
你会偶然发现所有这些意想不到的反应。
For example, one time on the Peter Jennings program on ABC News I decided and he decided, he agreed, we'd do a series during one of the Olympics seasons, we'd do a series in which I created something called the Insect Olympics.
例如，有一次在美国广播公司新闻的彼得·詹宁斯节目中，我决定，他也决定，他同意，我们将在奥运会的一个赛季期间制作一系列节目，我们将制作一系列节目，其中我创建了一个名为“昆虫奥运会”的东西。
Where I chose I think five insects who could outperform the human champion by a multiple of at least 20, as I recall.
我记得，我认为有 5 种昆虫的表现可以比人类冠军至少高出 20 倍。
And it was done with pure joy and we took it very seriously.
这是带着纯粹的喜悦完成的，我们非常认真地对待它。
So we were very careful to select the strongest or the fastest or the best in whatever category it was insect and then choose the equivalent human being.
所以我们非常小心地选择昆虫类别中最强、最快或最好的，然后选择同等的人类。
So what happened the first night of this series is I had chosen speed, there was going to be a sprint.
所以这个系列赛的第一个晚上发生的事情是我选择了速度，将会有一个冲刺。
And the fastest sprinter in the world was an American, a black American.
世界上最快的短跑运动员是一位美国人，一位美国黑人。
And the fastest insect in the world-- and we had a real runoff here between the entomology departments at Cornell, University Illinois, and I think the winner was out on the west coast, between two different insects, but the one that one was the cockroach.
世界上跑得最快的昆虫——我们在康奈尔大学、伊利诺伊大学的昆虫学系之间进行了一场真正的决斗，我认为获胜者是在西海岸，在两种不同的昆虫之间，但其中一个是蟑螂。
Cockroaches go incredibly fast.
蟑螂的速度快得令人难以置信。
We set up this elaborate system where we had a treadmill, and there was this cockroach going an incredibly fast speed, jumping over little-- it was wonderful to see.
我们建立了这个复杂的系统，其中有一个跑步机，这只蟑螂以令人难以置信的快速度移动，跳过一点——这真是太棒了。
And, by the way, when cockroaches go really fast, they go up on their back legs, their front legs are up in the air so they're bipedal, just like we are.
顺便说一句，当蟑螂走得非常快时，它们会用后腿上升，前腿在空中，所以它们是双足的，就像我们一样。
So there's even like an equivalency.
所以甚至是等价的。
Anyway, I was totally enraptured by this thing.
不管怎样，我完全被这件事迷住了。
I thought it had great teacherlyness, it had great humor, it had great wisdom, and all the things you flatter yourself about.
我认为它有伟大的师德，它有伟大的幽默，它有伟大的智慧，以及所有你自吹自擂的东西。
We put it on television and the lights on the switchboard started lighting up almost immediately on Peter's desk, at my desk, in my office, and all over the newsroom.
我们把它放在电视上，彼得的办公桌、我的办公桌、我的办公室以及整个新闻编辑室的总机上的灯几乎立即亮起。
Black Americans all over the country look at this thing, and they're thinking we have this champion human being, who happens to be our race, and this [BLEEP] on television goes up and compares us to vermin.
全国各地的美国黑人都在看着这件事，他们认为我们有这个冠军人类，他恰好是我们的种族，电视上的这个[BLEEP]上升并将我们与害虫进行比较。
That's how they see the cockroach.
这就是他们看到蟑螂的方式。
Of course, if you think about it, of course cockroaches have a very bad reputation.
当然，如果你想一想，蟑螂的名声当然很不好。
But I'd gotten so into the insect world I'd lost the sense that cockroaches are bad news, or have a bad reputation.
但随着我对昆虫世界的深入了解，我已经不再认为蟑螂是坏消息，或者名声不好。
So I'm picking up the phone and one person after another is accusing me.
所以我拿起电话，一个又一个的人开始指责我。
And here you are in the joy of the moment.
而此时此刻，你正处于欢乐之中。
You've created this thing that you're so proud of.
你创造了这个令你感到自豪的东西。
And then you're so ashamed by the second call.
然后你对第二个电话感到非常羞愧。
So ashamed.
太羞耻了。
And it was awful.
这太糟糕了。
Then Peter Jennings did this amazing thing, I thought, which gives you a sense of how subtle television can get when it wants to.
然后彼得·詹宁斯做了一件了不起的事情，我想，这让你感觉到电视在想要的时候可以变得多么微妙。
He said, well, what's on tomorrow night?
他说，好吧，明天晚上有什么节目？
I was worried he was going to say, let's chuck the whole thing I can't take the heat.
我担心他会说，我们把这一切都扔掉吧，我受不了。
But instead he said, what's on tomorrow night?
但他反而说，明天晚上有什么节目？
I said, well, we have a rhinoceros beetle who is going to outperform a Chinese weight lifter.
我说，好吧，我们有一只犀牛甲虫，它将超越中国举重运动员。
He says, OK.
他说，好吧。
Then he says to me, I'm going to really like tomorrow's piece.
然后他对我说，我会非常喜欢明天的作品。
Then he walks away.
然后他走开了。
I have no idea what that means.
我不知道这意味着什么。
Really like?
真的喜欢吗？
He kind of liked this one.
他有点喜欢这个。
So I tune on the TV the next night and he's sitting there and he says-- first, when it comes to the end of the show, and this is going be the piece, he lights up, his face just turns like all happy.
所以第二天晚上我打开电视，他坐在那里，他说——首先，当节目结束时，这将是一个片段，他的表情变得很高兴。
And he says and now something really special.
他说现在有一些非常特别的事情。
A lot of you called yesterday, we share your fascination-- I mean, I was just thinking-- with the human relations between the species and blah blah blah.
你们中的很多人昨天打电话来，我们分享了你们对物种之间的人际关系以及诸如此类的事情的迷恋——我的意思是，我只是在想。
And then he says, like almost licking his lips, now let's watch this.
然后他几乎舔了舔嘴唇，说，现在让我们看这个。
It had the effect of somebody stepping up at their own dinner table and saying, I cooked this meatloaf, let's taste this.
它的效果就像有人走到自己的餐桌前说，我做了这个肉饼，让我们尝尝这个。
I mean, it would have been very bad manners at that moment not to like what followed.
我的意思是，如果当时不喜欢接下来发生的事情，那就太不礼貌了。
But after it was over he did a non-verbal act which was very interesting.
但结束后他做了一个非常有趣的非语言行为。
The piece ends and he just sits there silently glowing.
曲子结束了，他只是静静地坐在那里，闪闪发光。
It's the only way I could describe it.
这是我能描述它的唯一方式。
And then he sucks in his breath and he goes on.
然后他吸了一口气，继续说道。
In other news, blah blah blah.
其他新闻，等等等等。
And that act by the anchor, and this has happened to me with Susan Stamberg at NPR, other anchors too who just-- If they insist that this isn't wacky.
主持人的这种行为，我和 NPR 的苏珊·斯坦伯格 (Susan Stamberg) 都发生过这种事，其他主持人也只是——如果他们坚持认为这并不古怪。
If they say, no, I'm the man in the center, I'm the center of gravity here, the center likes this, then you do.
如果他们说，不，我是中心的人，我是这里的重心，中心喜欢这样，那么你就这样做。
Then you do.
那么你就这么做了。
The calls went 180 degrees the other direction.
电话的方向却来了 180 度。
Wonderful, marvelous.
太棒了，太棒了。
And I have to assign it, I think, mostly not to the substance of the two pieces but to Peter's display.
我认为，我必须将其分配给彼得的展示，而不是这两件作品的实质内容。
Robert Krulwich is a correspondent for ABC News.
罗伯特·克鲁维奇是美国广播公司新闻台的记者。
He is currently working on a serious history of the United States told from the point of view of Barbie.
他目前正在研究一部从芭比娃娃的角度讲述美国的严肃历史。
Act Thirteen, Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Wacky.
第十三幕，杰基博士和古怪先生。
Now with this examination of the split in our culture that creates wacky, the split that demands that things either be totally serious or totally goofy, we have this story from our contributing editor Sarah Vowel.
现在，通过对我们文化中造成古怪的分裂的审视，这种分裂要求事情要么完全严肃，要么完全愚蠢，我们从我们的特约编辑莎拉·沃维尔 (Sarah Vowel) 那里得到了这个故事。
One of the most gut wrenching half hours of public radio each week is a program produced in Chicago called Magnificent Obsession .
每周公共广播节目中最令人揪心的半小时节目之一是在芝加哥制作的名为《华丽的痴迷》的节目。
It listens in on recovering drug and alcohol addicts telling their stories.
它倾听正在康复的吸毒者和酗酒者讲述他们的故事。
Some are hopeful, some are funny, but many are just harrowing.
有些充满希望，有些很有趣，但很多只是令人痛苦。
The drunken mother crawling, literally crawling, out of stores with her children in tow.
醉酒的母亲拖着孩子们爬出商店，真的是爬着。
The teenager whose parents find her lying in her own vomit.
这名青少年的父母发现她躺在自己的呕吐物中。
She said, my dad said, oh we should we should clean her up.
她说，我爸爸说，哦，我们应该清理她。
And my mom said, no, let her lie in it.
我妈妈说，不，让她躺在里面。
Maybe she'll learn something.
也许她会学到一些东西。
Well I did.
好吧，我做到了。
I learned to try to throw up before I passed out.
我学会了在昏倒之前尝试呕吐。
I decided that my husband should be dead.
我决定我的丈夫应该死。
And I planned what I call today, the perfect murder.
我策划了今天所说的完美谋杀。
I've got to tell you that I was on Valiums at the time.
我必须告诉你，我当时正在服用安定。
That I was going to put the Valiums in the beer.
我打算把安定药放入啤酒中。
I was going to have him drink it and I was going to cut him in little bitty pieces with a Black and Decker saw and throw Humpty Dumpty all over Illinois.
我要让他喝下它，然后用百得锯把他切成小块，然后把矮胖子扔到伊利诺伊州各地。
I'm looking at a photograph of the producer of that program.
我正在看该节目制作人的照片。
His name is Jim Nayder.
他的名字叫吉姆·内德。
It's in People magazine.
这是在《人物》杂志上的。
He's mugging for the camera.
他在对着镜头做鬼脸。
I have cotton in my ears and I'm just sort of making a face that, sort of nauseous look.
我的耳朵里塞着棉花，我的表情有点恶心。
And was it their idea to put cotton in your ears?
把棉花塞进耳朵里是他们的主意吗？
It was my idea for the cotton, but not the nauseous look.
这是我对棉花的想法，但不是令人作呕的外观。
Jim Nader is the Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Wacky of public radio.
吉姆纳德是公共广播电台的杰基博士和古怪先生。
He divides his time between documenting the horror stories of addicts and spinning grand pop mistakes on his nationally syndicated three-minute-long Annoying Music Show.
他一边记录瘾君子的恐怖故事，一边在全国范围内举办的长达三分钟的烦人音乐秀中讲述流行音乐的重大错误。
I heard about this show before I actually heard it.
在我真正听到这个节目之前我就听说过它。
And the idea sounds awful, disingenuous.
这个想法听起来很糟糕、不诚实。
What's easier than taking potshots at the musical oeuvre of the Brady Bunch?
还有什么比批评布雷迪乐队的音乐作品更容易的呢？
Then I actually listened to it.
然后我就真的去听了。
It turns out that Nayder's work is not the nadir of civilization I anticipated.
事实证明，内德的作品并不是我所预期的文明的最低点。
The show is actually pleasurable and real, partly because of Nayder's deadpan announcing.
这部剧实际上是令人愉快和真实的，部分原因是内德面无表情地宣布。
He's not a wacky guy spinning another wacky disk.
他不是一个旋转另一个古怪磁盘的古怪家伙。
He does the show straight, as if he were a classical music announcer riffing on the significance of the post neo whatchamacallit.
他的表演直截了当，就好像他是一位古典音乐播音员，不断重复着后新时代的Whatchamacallit的意义。
Hi, I'm Jim Nayder and welcome to The Annoying Music Show .
大家好，我是吉姆·内德，欢迎来到烦人的音乐秀。
Often the very best annoying music is produced went two great forms of music are combined, creating music so annoying it's almost dangerous.
通常，最好的烦人音乐是由两种伟大的音乐形式相结合而产生的，创造出如此烦人的音乐，几乎是危险的。
Today we have the perfect annoying example.
今天我们有一个完美的恼人的例子。
It's a mix of bluegrass and soul performed by the Burns Brothers.
这是伯恩斯兄弟演奏的蓝草音乐和灵魂乐的混合曲。
Most of my passion, I think, goes into Magnificent Obsession .
我认为，我的大部分热情都投入到了“宏伟的痴迷”中。
The experience of Magnificent Obsession in a week to me is much more moving on a bunch of levels.
对我来说，一周的“壮丽的痴迷”体验在很多层面上都更加令人感动。
Number one, someone will make contact with me to be on the show.
第一，有人会联系我参加演出。
I'll go to their office or their kitchen or they'll come to my little studio, and in the course of a couple of hours they'll have sit there and told me their deepest, darkest, funniest, most uplifting experience.
我会去他们的办公室或厨房，或者他们会来我的小工作室，在几个小时内，他们会坐在那里告诉我他们最深刻、最黑暗、最有趣、最令人振奋的经历。
And I've never met this person before.
而且我以前从未见过这个人。
I think that's why that's more my passion.
我想这就是为什么这才是我的热情所在。
It feels more important work.
感觉工作更重要了。
Guess which show's more popular.
猜猜哪个节目更受欢迎。
The emotionally gruesome alcoholic adventure or Mae West singing "When a Man Loves a Woman?" Magnificent Obsession airs on 47 stations.
情感上令人毛骨悚然的酗酒冒险还是梅·韦斯特演唱的《当男人爱女人时》？ 《华丽的痴迷》在 47 个电视台播出。
The Annoying Music Show is on 123.
《烦人的音乐秀》播出时间为 123。
On WBEZ, Nayder's home station, The Annoying Music Show is heard on Saturday afternoons by loads of listeners.
周六下午，大量听众会在 Nayder 的主电台 WBEZ 上收听《烦人的音乐秀》。
Magnificent Obsession is on at 4:30 in the morning.
《华丽的痴迷》于凌晨 4:30 播出。
Even Nayder sleeps through it.
就连内德也睡着了。
You might think that Nayder would be, well, annoyed by The Annoying Show's Darwinian lead considering that he says magnificent obsession is his true passion.
你可能会认为内德会对《烦人的秀》的达尔文主义主导感到恼火，因为他说巨大的痴迷是他真正的热情。
But no matter how many times you ask him how he feels about that, his answer is that it makes sense.
但无论你问他多少次对此有何感想，他的回答都是有道理。
Which is so mature.
这是如此成熟。
He understands that that's the way the world works.
他明白这就是世界运转的方式。
Yeah.
是的。
I don't want to over analyze it.
我不想过度分析它。
I think people just need a good laugh.
我认为人们只需要开怀大笑。
You know?
你知道？
I think people are desperate for a good laugh.
我认为人们渴望开怀大笑。
So both shows actually are kind of a response to human pain in a way, if you describe it that way.
所以，如果你这样描述的话，这两部剧实际上在某种程度上都是对人类痛苦的回应。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Sarah Vowel Maybe this is way too obvious, but I was thinking about where your two worlds collide.
莎拉·沃维尔 也许这太明显了，但我在想你们两个世界的碰撞点。
The annoying music and drugs.
烦人的音乐和毒品。
And I was thinking, of course, it is William Shatner's "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds." You know, you've got LSD, you've got this Beatles' butchering.
我在想，当然，这是威廉·夏特纳的《钻石天空中的露西》。你知道，你已经迷失了迷幻药，你已经得到了披头士乐队的屠杀。
I mean, it's like one of those things where, you know, some people remember where they were when Kennedy was shot.
我的意思是，这就像其中一件事，你知道，有些人记得肯尼迪被枪杀时他们在哪里。
I remember where I was when I heard that song the first time.
我记得第一次听到这首歌时我在哪里。
I was like, you know, my world turned around.
我当时想，你知道，我的世界发生了翻天覆地的变化。
And, you know, I prefer it to the Beatles now.
而且，你知道，我现在更喜欢它而不是披头士乐队。
I mean, it is like the most joyous, most humbling, most magnificent piece of music I could imagine and I can't even imagine doing it.
我的意思是，它就像是我能想象到的最欢乐、最谦卑、最壮丽的音乐作品，但我什至无法想象如何演奏它。
And it's a complete mystery to me why that is.
这对我来说完全是个谜。
Like, why do you think that song is so powerful?
比如，你为什么认为这首歌如此强大？
And people agree.
人们也同意。
Someone told me that when William Shatner was on Conan O'Brien the other week, that they played "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds" when he came out.
有人告诉我，威廉·夏特纳上周在《柯南·奥布莱恩》节目中，当他出来时，他们播放了《钻石天空中的露西》。
So it's like, oh, it's not just me.
所以这就像，哦，这不仅仅是我。
I think a lot of that is the power of Captain Kirk, William Shatner.
我认为这很大程度上是柯克船长威廉·夏特纳的力量。
Or even when he does, when Shatner does "Mr. Tambourine Man." You know how it goes out, where he's screaming, "Mr. Tambourine Man." And it's like, you know, Marlon Brando yelling "Stella."
或者甚至当他这样做时，当夏特纳表演“手鼓先生”时。你知道结果如何，他尖叫着“手鼓人先生”。这就像，你知道，马龙·白兰度大喊“斯特拉”。
Which brings us to the fundamental problem of wackiness.
这给我们带来了古怪的根本问题。
Is it OK to like it?
喜欢就可以了吗？
What if it can't be helped?
如果实在帮不了怎么办？
Sometimes when I listen to The Annoying Music Show , a show that I really love and yet I find myself questioning that love.
有时，当我听《烦人的音乐秀》时，我真的很喜欢这个节目，但我发现自己在质疑这种爱。
And I feel like the part of me that loves it is sort of dead inside.
我觉得我内心热爱它的部分已经死了。
Like, there's something--
比如说，有一些东西——
Cynical, you're cynical?
愤世嫉俗，你愤世嫉俗吗？
Sarah Vowel Is that it?
莎拉元音 是吗？
Is it, like, the guilt of irony?
是不是有点讽刺的罪恶感？
Do you see it as an ironic show?
你认为这是一个讽刺节目吗？
Yeah.
是的。
And and it pains me sometimes to think that there are artists that I really like that the only chance I'll get to play their music is to highlight an annoying song.
有时想到有些我真的很喜欢的艺术家，我演奏他们的音乐的唯一机会就是突出一首烦人的歌曲，这让我很痛苦。
I just sort of grew up buying 78s and old records and I love Kate Smith and Bing Crosby and all those people.
我从小就喜欢买 78 年代的唱片和旧唱片，我喜欢 Kate Smith 和 Bing Crosby 以及所有这些人。
And there's-- Kate Smith singing "The Ballad of the Green Beret" is an instant hit on The Annoying Music Show .
还有——凯特·史密斯演唱的《绿色贝雷帽之歌》在《烦人的音乐秀》上一炮而红。
And that's the only chance I'll get to play Kate Smith on there.
这是我在那里扮演凯特·史密斯的唯一机会。
So there is a twinge of I'm really knocking this artist in some way.
所以有一种刺痛感，我真的在某种程度上打击了这位艺术家。
The problem with doing a supposedly wacky show, or a deadly serious one, is that all the other parts of your personality never get expressed.
做一场看似古怪的表演，或者一场极其严肃的表演，问题在于你的个性的所有其他部分永远不会得到表达。
Nayder's two shows must require a fairly schizophrenic to do list.
内德的两场演出肯定需要一份相当精神分裂的待办事项清单。
Like one minute he's looking for the best possible worst version of Rod Stewart's "Do You Think i'm Sexy?" and the next minute he's editing the cautionary tale of a drunk who lived in alleys.
就好像有一分钟，他正在寻找罗德·斯图尔特的“你认为我性感吗？”的最佳最差版本。下一分钟他就在编辑一个住在小巷里的醉汉的警世故事。
But if his psyche has dual citizenship his pocketbook has pledged allegiance to the wacky flag.
但如果他的心灵具有双重国籍，那么他的钱包就已经宣誓效忠这面古怪的旗帜。
The Annoying Music Show is his moneymaker.
烦人的音乐秀是他的摇钱树。
Prostitution.
卖淫。
Income and getting my daughter through college.
收入和让我女儿读完大学。
Go ahead and laugh, but in two years The Annoying Music Show will gross enough that Nayder won't need another source of income.
尽情地笑吧，但两年后《烦人的音乐秀》将变得足够恶心，以至于内德将不再需要其他收入来源。
There will be CDs, there will be paraphernalia.
会有CD，会有随身物品。
Yes, this paraphernalia will be wacky.
是的，这些用具会很古怪。
His daughter's college tuition will be paid for through the sale of hats equipped with ear plugs, and barf bags.
他女儿的大学学费将通过出售配有耳塞的帽子和呕吐袋来支付。
It is a tribute to the power of wackiness that with millions of people in recovery programs all over this great nation, Nayder won't be financing his daughter's education with profits from Magnificent Obsession coffee thermoses or souvenir nicotine patches.
这是对古怪力量的致敬，在这个伟大的国家有数百万人参与康复计划，内德不会用 Magnificent Obsession 咖啡热水瓶或纪念品尼古丁贴片的利润来资助他女儿的教育。
Wacky sells.
古怪的卖。
And we at This American Life are not above cashing in.
而我们《This American Life》也毫不犹豫地从中获利。
Pledge drive's coming up, so let's take it out with a song.
誓言活动即将到来，让我们用一首歌来表达吧。
Maestro.
大师。
Sarah Vowell is the author of Radio On and a columnist for Salon magazine online.
莎拉·沃威尔 (Sarah Vowell) 是《Radio On》的作者，也是《沙龙》在线杂志的专栏作家。
Wacky and warm is part of my package too.
古怪和温暖也是我的包裹的一部分。
Indeed it is.
确实如此。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life .
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。